From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon May  1 00:39:56 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 18:39:56 -0400
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <NDBBIKFJELEPGPPKLMIBAELNCCAA.kpeek1@prodigy.net> <390C5BA8.AFF28B4F@prodigy.net> <005d01bfb2e1$a2c70180$0734883e@default>
Message-ID: <390CB63C.3DACDA86@prodigy.net>

I don't know that the MN3101 has any dead-zone between pulses... and the
4013 is
certainly closer that the "cascaded inverter" approach that is also used.
The 4013 has been used in many clock circuits... although it is probably not
optimum. I'd like more drive, thank you.

The non-overlapping clock (with dead zone...) has been proposed before
(maybe it was you, Tony... I don't remember.) I think it is worth
investigating... but I don't plan on it anytime soon (like in the next 100
years....). To be honest I don't do BBD's but IF I did..
I d try this idea.

H^) harry

Tony Allgood wrote:

> >...the old standby is to make the clock run a 2X the frequency you
> need, and then
> use a 4013 D flip-flop as a divide by 2 circuit. The Q and notQ outputs
> are non-overlapping.
>
> Although this may seem true, I do not think they are non overlapping
> when you drive the BBD chip. Capacitance in the BBD's clock inputs will
> produce a certain degree of overlap. I think you really need some dead
> time between the two trains. I have a chorus unit made from two TDA1022s
> and I used a 4013 to derive my clocks. I will be redoing this board at
> some time to see if the amount of dead time can have a significant
> effect on the amount of noise. Currently, the unit is not very useful
> since it is too noisy. Its not companded either, which doesn't help
> matters.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK
>
> Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack
>
> http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm




From patchell at teletrac.com  Mon May  1 00:48:54 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 15:48:54 -0700
Subject: ASM-1 question re bypass caps
References: <384156135.957115510661.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com>
Message-ID: <390CB856.126D7350@silcom.com>

    In general, going larger is no problem.


Paul Wilkinson wrote:

> For which of the .1uF caps can I substitute .22uF's?  I'm assuming that it's
> okay to sub the bypass caps with larger values.  Let me know if I'm wrong.
>
> Tirade: Now, who would have thought that I wouldn't be able to buy .1uF caps
> locally?  In the SF Bay Area of all places.  I don't see a lot of hands out
> there.  But yes, the only parts store in the SF East Bay (besides Radio
> Shack) only had 10 of them!  Buying parts out here is infuriating.

    I am glad that there are other places that are miserable as well.  Our local
(Santa Barbara Area) electronics store has a big box of real nice surplus
capacitors, but they want $0.35 each for them, doesn't matter what the quantity
is.  Bypass caps are one thing I purchase from Mouser on a regular basis.  When
you get them in 100 lots, they get real cheap (like $0.11).

>
>
> - Paul
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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From higg0008 at tc.umn.edu  Mon May  1 01:40:44 2000
From: higg0008 at tc.umn.edu (Paul R. Higgins)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 18:40:44 -0500
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011-is a MN3101 clock necessary?
Message-ID: <iss.20ed.390cc47c.4c8d9.1@amethyst.tc.umn.edu>

Another popular clock circuit for BBDs is a 4046 as high-frequency VCO, followed
by a 4041 with its inverters set up as Q/notQ and paralleled for extra current 
drive.  Craig Anderton used this in one of his designs to drive an SAD4096, 
which has an unbelievable 1000 pF clock line capacitance.

-PRH



_____________________________________________
Paul Higgins
email: higg0008 at tc.umn.edu
University College, University of Minnesota
_____________________________________________




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon May  1 02:38:57 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 10:38:57 +1000
Subject: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000501003857.00ded9b0@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 06:55 PM 1/05/00 -0500, Paul R. Higgins wrote:

>2)  Can you still get the AD533 analog multiplier used in the EN frequency 
>shifter?  If not, is there a substitution available?

i have used the AD633 very successfully in a multiplier, though not this one.

paul perry melbourne australia




From mirwin1 at istar.ca  Mon May  1 02:55:14 2000
From: mirwin1 at istar.ca (Mike I.)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 20:55:14 -0400
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <NDBBIKFJELEPGPPKLMIBAELNCCAA.kpeek1@prodigy.net> <390C5BA8.AFF28B4F@prodigy.net> <005d01bfb2e1$a2c70180$0734883e@default>
Message-ID: <390CD5F2.366A@istar.ca>

The MN3010 chorus circuit in the Korg Lambda string synth uses a 
discrete transistor clock - no MN3101, no MN3102, no CD4013 are used. 
The MN3101 spec sheets show that the outputs do overlap - but the 
overlap point occurs at a voltage higher than the mid-supply voltage. 
I do not know if this helps improve BBD performance. The MN3101 
supposedly has enough drive capability for two MN3005 - total of 8192 
stages, which is a point in it's favor. I have seen BBD circuits where 
CD4049 buffers are used on  CD4013 outputs in order to improve drive 
capability for capacitive loads. The MN3011 has more than 3000 
stages (lots of capacitance)so a good driver circuit would help. Mike I.



From danas at egosys.com  Mon May  1 03:01:35 2000
From: danas at egosys.com (Dana Scott)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 21:01:35 -0400
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
Message-ID: <000301bfb30f$fa287520$dff96ed1@egosys.smtp.ix.netcom.com>

To make a quick and dirty non-overlap circuit  try  a resistor and
diode on both outputs of the 4013. The diode and resistor would be in
parallel, with the cathode towards the 4013. The resistor value would
depend on the input capacitance BBD.  I'd start at about 3.3K.
-Dana


>I don't know that the MN3101 has any dead-zone between pulses... and
the
>4013 is
>certainly closer that the "cascaded inverter" approach that is also
used.
>The 4013 has been used in many clock circuits... although it is
probably not
>optimum. I'd like more drive, thank you.
>
>The non-overlapping clock (with dead zone...) has been proposed
before
>(maybe it was you, Tony... I don't remember.) I think it is worth
>investigating... but I don't plan on it anytime soon (like in the
next 100
>years....). To be honest I don't do BBD's but IF I did..
>I d try this idea.
>
>H^) harry
>
>Tony Allgood wrote:
>
>> >...the old standby is to make the clock run a 2X the frequency you
>> need, and then
>> use a 4013 D flip-flop as a divide by 2 circuit. The Q and notQ
outputs
>> are non-overlapping.
>>
>> Although this may seem true, I do not think they are non
overlapping
>> when you drive the BBD chip. Capacitance in the BBD's clock inputs
will
>> produce a certain degree of overlap. I think you really need some
dead
>> time between the two trains. I have a chorus unit made from two
TDA1022s
>> and I used a 4013 to derive my clocks. I will be redoing this board
at
>> some time to see if the amount of dead time can have a significant
>> effect on the amount of noise. Currently, the unit is not very
useful
>> since it is too noisy. Its not companded either, which doesn't help
>> matters.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK
>>
>> Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack
>>
>> http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm
>




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Mon May  1 04:14:23 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:14:23 -0700
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <NDBBIKFJELEPGPPKLMIBAELNCCAA.kpeek1@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <009401bfb313$a8da69e0$0100a8c0@homenet>

Here is a 3005 example that uses a 4047 a vc-clock. I've seen
various other solutions. Some that use a 555 and 4001. 

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pdf/mm+3005.pdf

Tom


> According to the spec sheets for the MN3010 and the MN3011, a MN3101 clock
> is needed.
> If I don't have a MN3101 what else can I use? Can I make a discrete MN3101
> or can I use a simple
> Osc. for a clock input?
> 
> THANKS!!!!!





From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Mon May  1 04:47:11 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 04:47:11 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20000430000100.00dcb334@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de>


The outputs of CMOS FFs have less drive than the usuall CMOS gates. At
least thats what I was told. Take a 4011, make an AMV out of two gates
(used as inverters, crosscoupled by Cs, Rs from In to Out of the NAND). One
can steer this in 1/x fashion with a pair of diodes to the inputs of gates.
Now let this follow a RS-FF made out of the other two gates as a driver. 

I used this circuit, its in the Solina, and in the Dr. B?hm. I don't have
problems with noise, because I used steep input and output filters
(10pole)! There is very much clock feedthru at the direct output of the
BBD. It must be filtered away.

To all those who are tempted to use a non overlapping clock:
<IMO flamesuit=on> The clock signal feeds thru capacitively! This is charge
transfer in a series string of MOS switches. Its a differenciated version
of the clock signal. Ideally the rising clock phase would couple as much
signal to the output as the falling one, they tend to cancel. I think it
won't help to have a non overlapping clock. Rather on the contrary: You'll
get two spikes timely separated, instead of simultaneously (which are of
opposite polarity, and partly cancel). The problem with a clock which
overlaps too much is that the odd numbered "buckets" can leak into the even
numbered (and vice versa). This leads to signal attenuation. I think BBDs
are percieved as noisy because often the input filters are not sufficient
for the sampling theorem,
while its not difficult to filter a 50-100kHz signal away from an audio
signal.
</IMO>

Bye,
 Ren?




transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From patchell at teletrac.com  Mon May  1 05:02:08 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 20:02:08 -0700
Subject: Looking For Comments
Message-ID: <390CF3B0.43C20843@silcom.com>

    <Flame Suit On>

    Anybody interested in taking a look at my synth module and making
comments will certainly be welcome.  You should finds links to the
schematic (600K) and pcb (component placement only) (1000K) at:

http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/smb1/smb.html

    If I overlooked something, I want to take care of it now, rather
than when it is too late.  Suggestions are welcome too if I left out
some important feature.  Or, you can just laugh....

<Flame Suit Off>


-Jim leaving himself wide open Patchell

P.S....I probably don't really need a flame suit, but you can never be
too careful.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From don at till.com  Mon May  1 05:16:28 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 20:16:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ASM-1 question re bypass caps
In-Reply-To: <384156135.957115510661.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com>
	(message from Paul Wilkinson on Sun, 30 Apr 2000 13:25:10 -0400 (EDT))
Message-ID: <200005010316.UAA23641@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 13:25:10 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Paul Wilkinson <synthdiy at mail.com>

   Tirade: Now, who would have thought that I wouldn't be able to buy
   .1uF caps locally?  In the SF Bay Area of all places.  I don't see
   a lot of hands out there.  But yes, the only parts store in the SF
   East Bay (besides Radio Shack) only had 10 of them!  Buying parts
   out here is infuriating.

What, there's no Fry's near you?

(An explanation for out-of-towners; Fry's is a remarkable chain of
stores around here.  They used to be a supermarket of electronic
parts; lots of ICs and transistors, computers, peripherals, cabling,
etc.  Their big hook was that they also carried stuff you might need
if you don't get out of the lab very often; cola, snacks, magazines
and tampons.  So you would often see advertisements from them for
sales on both DRAM chips and toothpaste.  Really funny.  Nowadays the
electronics parts stock isn't as good as it used to be, they carry
more appliances, and their salespeople are useless.  But they still
carry an awful lot of good stuff.)

How about Haltek in Mountain View?
HSC in Santa Clara?
San Mateo Eletronics Supply in San Mateo?
HdB Electronics in Menlo Park?
All Electronics in San Jose?
Zack Electronics in San Jose?
R & D Electronic Parts in Milpitas?

Yeah, none of these are in the East Bay, but it's not that long a
drive.  

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From synthdiy at mail.com  Mon May  1 05:19:16 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 3140 + static
Message-ID: <385315284.957151156405.JavaMail.root@web301-mc.mail.com>

How careful do I need to be with 3140's?  Do I need to ground myself, do the
tinfoil thing, or can I just handle them gingerly?  Also, does a soldering
iron ground them, or do I need to do something else to protect them while
soldering.

- Paul

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From thescum at surfree.com  Mon May  1 06:02:58 2000
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 00:02:58 -0400
Subject: 3140 + static
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000501040258.009b0bb0@smtp.surfree.com>

>How careful do I need to be with 3140's?  Do I need to ground myself, do the
>tinfoil thing, or can I just handle them gingerly?  Also, does a soldering
>iron ground them, or do I need to do something else to protect them while
>soldering.

If these are for your ASM1, you might consider pitting them in sockets.  I
spent forever getting my ASM1's VCF working because everytime I tried to
troubleshoot it, I killed one of the 3140s.  Now they're in sockets, and I
also used a wrist strap when I put the final replacements in.

They've been happy since.

Byron Jacquot




From wendall_dogman at yahoo.com  Mon May  1 06:19:28 2000
From: wendall_dogman at yahoo.com (Dan Steeby)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 21:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: absolute newbie wants to build a ribbon controller
Message-ID: <20000501041928.11188.qmail@web2104.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello, 

I'm just starting out with this whole audio
electronics thing, but am curious whether it would be
possible to build a ribbon controller.  I really have
no idea even what these things are made of, but I know
that I love 'em and would love to build one if it were
possible.  Anybody got links to info about ribbons?

thanks,

wendall_dogman

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From patchell at teletrac.com  Mon May  1 06:41:09 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 21:41:09 -0700
Subject: 3140 + static
References: <385315284.957151156405.JavaMail.root@web301-mc.mail.com>
Message-ID: <390D0AE5.3187A772@silcom.com>

    You need to be very careful with 3140's.  Get yourself a wrist stat at the
very least.  An Anti Static work mat for your bench is also a good idea.
Everything needs to be connected together and connected to ground.  Oh yes, and
make sure your soldering iron has a grounded tip as well.

    The 3140 is not as bad as some of the stuff I work with.  It takes about 100
volts of static to blast the gates on the mosfets in the 3140.  The stuff I work
with takes only 3 volts of static.  Everything in the area must be conductive.
It's a real pain in the wahzoo.

Paul Wilkinson wrote:

> How careful do I need to be with 3140's?  Do I need to ground myself, do the
> tinfoil thing, or can I just handle them gingerly?  Also, does a soldering
> iron ground them, or do I need to do something else to protect them while
> soldering.
>
> - Paul
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From dafc at sinectis.com.ar  Mon May  1 07:04:26 2000
From: dafc at sinectis.com.ar (David Castillo)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 02:04:26 -0300
Subject: RV: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <01BFB311.9848FF80@modem47-tc10b.capfed1.sinectis.com.ar>

I just bought a drum machine oberheim DMX for about 20 dollars. It is in perfect conditions. What do you think about this machine? Can you give me some technical specifications? and any idea to modify it?

Thank you!





From synthdiy at mail.com  Mon May  1 08:30:10 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 02:30:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ASM-1 question re bypass caps
Message-ID: <385000798.957162610809.JavaMail.root@web302-mc.mail.com>

I didn't know Fry's had components!  There's a Fry's only 40 minutes away!

The others are all on the south peninsula - at least an hour.

I repeat - it's brutal out here.  Maybe I should be making digital synths.

x x
~

- Paul

------Original Message------
From: Don Tillman <don at till.com>
To: synthdiy at mail.com
Sent: May 1, 2000 3:16:28 AM GMT
Subject: Re: ASM-1 question re bypass caps


Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 13:25:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Wilkinson <synthdiy at mail.com>

Tirade: Now, who would have thought that I wouldn't be able to buy
.1uF caps locally?  In the SF Bay Area of all places.  I don't see
a lot of hands out there.  But yes, the only parts store in the SF
East Bay (besides Radio Shack) only had 10 of them!  Buying parts
out here is infuriating.

What, there's no Fry's near you?

(An explanation for out-of-towners; Fry's is a remarkable chain of
stores around here.  They used to be a supermarket of electronic
parts; lots of ICs and transistors, computers, peripherals, cabling,
etc.  Their big hook was that they also carried stuff you might need
if you don't get out of the lab very often; cola, snacks, magazines
and tampons.  So you would often see advertisements from them for
sales on both DRAM chips and toothpaste.  Really funny.  Nowadays the
electronics parts stock isn't as good as it used to be, they carry
more appliances, and their salespeople are useless.  But they still
carry an awful lot of good stuff.)

How about Haltek in Mountain View?
HSC in Santa Clara?
San Mateo Eletronics Supply in San Mateo?
HdB Electronics in Menlo Park?
All Electronics in San Jose?
Zack Electronics in San Jose?
R & D Electronic Parts in Milpitas?

Yeah, none of these are in the East Bay, but it's not that long a
drive.

-- Don

--
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From squarewave at jps.net  Mon May  1 08:45:22 2000
From: squarewave at jps.net (Debby and Gene Stopp)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:45:22 -0700
Subject: ASM-1 Problem
References: <383963495.956908278615.JavaMail.root@web431-mc.mail.com>
Message-ID: <01e301bfb338$e6b008e0$ccc4edd0@borg0>

Hi Paul,

I just realized that I can't read it either, on the copies that I send out!
It's the resistor that takes the + input of the 3140 to ground, which is
labelled 15K in the schematic. Most of the boards that I've built use 10K
here - it's not really critical. 15K is just the textbook value.

In the process I realized that the 1.8K resistor in the same place on the CV
summing amp (+ input to ground) on the schematic has no place for a resistor
on the PCB - it just goes straight to ground. No big deal electronically,
but it's a mismatch between the schematic and the PCB, and probably the
parts list too. My apologies to everybody about the inaccuracies - I always
build PCB's from the trace/component level and worry about the documentation
later.

So, a message to all ASM-1 builders - thanks for the feedback, and don't
hesitate to email me if you need help! There's probably a few more errors in
there.

- Gene


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wilkinson" <synthdiy at mail.com>
To: "Synth synthdiy" <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 12:51 AM
Subject: ASM-1 Problem


> Can someone look up a resistor value on the ASM-1 parts layout sheet for
me?
> One of the resistor values is illegible.  It's in the filter between the
> 100K resistor and the 3140.  It's in the middle of the page, right on the
> crease.  If you start at the top left of the filter, go right past the 5
> CV's, the 4 IN's, the word "POT", you'll get to the 100K resistor.  It's
the
> one below that.
>
> Thanks a bunch!
>
> - Paul
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>
>





From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Mon May  1 10:19:28 2000
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 10:19:28 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011-is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <iss.20ed.390cc47c.4c8d9.1@amethyst.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <390D3E10.5E30D2A@eunet.yu>

You can find this design in MAP's VC delay at

http://mall.lakes.com/~map/delay.htm



marjan accepting your unwanted BBDs :) 


> Another popular clock circuit for BBDs is a 4046 as high-frequency VCO, followed
> by a 4041 with its inverters set up as Q/notQ and paralleled for extra current
> drive.  Craig Anderton used this in one of his designs to drive an SAD4096,
> which has an unbelievable 1000 pF clock line capacitance.



From pwd at redhotant.com  Mon May  1 10:32:58 2000
From: pwd at redhotant.com (paul darlow)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:32:58 +0100
Subject: (Fwd) orgon systems new kits and synth modules
References: <3909193D.42351453@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <390D413A.999A1B3B@redhotant.com>



BrightBoy wrote:

> Hey Gang,
>
> Just saw this on one of the newsgroups and thought you
> might be interested....
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff R. Dec
>
> ============================================================================
>
> Check out ORGON SYSTEMS new modular and synth kit range
> http://www.orgon.fsnet.co.uk . The filter was reviewed in June edition
> of
> "The Mix", only ?44.00. check out audio tracks 14, 15 and 16 of the
> cover CD
> for a demo. Also available VCO, Log/Lin VCA, ADSR, dual LFO and PSU
> kits.
> Coming soon 20 mode ENIGISER filter, ready built ?99.00! All available
> with
> either 3.5 mm or 1/4 inch jacks.

Hi all
        First post to the list been lurking a while built the vcf  from orgon .
sounds nice but its not the same enigiser filter as in the enigiser synth.
also  I have a Oberheim sem which I want to fully patch out I have all the info
patch out detail but have been told that there is a better way to do it  to
normalize the patching out .
Im new to this so any help will be gratefully received.

paul




From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon May  1 10:51:02 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:51:02 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <NDBBIKFJELEPGPPKLMIBAELNCCAA.kpeek1@prodigy.net> <390C5BA8.AFF28B4F@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <001701bfb34a$63c3ee80$4b68353e@jhaible>

> Sure... the old standby is to make the clock run a 2X the frequency you
need,
> and then
> use a 4013 D flip-flop as a divide by 2 circuit.

[...]

> H^) harry  (BTW.... BBDs SUCK!!! but who listens to me ???)

Could it be that the minimalistic clock circuit you're describing,
and your statement about the quality of BBD circuits be somehow
related ?! (But nobody listens to me either, or to the application
notes of BBD manufacturers, for that matter ...)

The Q and Qbar outputs of a 4013 *do* overlap when they're
loaded with a BBD's capacitance.

JH.











From blacet at metro.net  Mon May  1 14:07:12 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:07:12 +0000
Subject: FS: misc EFM boards
Message-ID: <390D7370.7CB@metro.net>

Cleanup time! 

A few projects from the EFM barn, sorta in a basket. As-is. Make me an
offer on the whole package.

1. SEQ 2 bare PCB; untouched except for fixing documented short.
2. VCO-4D; populated board; shows signs of life.
3. VCF2E; populated board, hooked up to front panel, includes jacks,
pots, etc, penciled in legend (not very pretty); shows definite signs of
life...

The above I would recommend for persons with more than basic electronic
knowledge and skill.

Includes some doc; more on TomGs web pages.

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From hugo.haesaert at skynet.be  Mon May  1 14:08:47 2000
From: hugo.haesaert at skynet.be (Hugo Haesaert)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 13:08:47 +0100
Subject: Orgon Systems Mulitmode Filter
In-Reply-To: <000a01bfb21f$714d87e0$2869353e@jhaible>
Message-ID: <20000501111024.2A3E1DB36@morpheus.skynet.be>

Hi Juergen n All !

Digisound 80_7 is a dual state-variable filter module, switched to 
give two and four pole lp-hp-bp  and two pole notch .  The original 
design, as published in ETI and in the ZIP at Anders site uses the 
ssm2040 for it's poles and 13600 for vc resonance .  Subsequently 
(after ssm's demise ?) an 80_7a was designed, using the cem3320 iso 
ssm2040 .  Both circuits can also be found in Barry Klein's book .  
(does anyone have the pcb layout for that 80_7a ?)

Problem (? :) ) with these is that the 4 transconductance cells get 
their current from one source, precluding easy spreading of corner 
frequencies of the BP's, also combining BP+LP (not implemented here) 
would be more interesting .  

The Synton Syrinx filter combinations of three cem3350's (dual state 
variables, independent freq control) look (and sound) very special .  
Don't know wether a full description of this is available on the 
internet ?

Cheers .


Keep 'em oscillating :)

Hugo
=



From anders.sponton at swipnet.se  Mon May  1 15:16:57 2000
From: anders.sponton at swipnet.se (Anders Sponton)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:16:57 +0200
Subject: Missing Formants
Message-ID: <390D83C9.84B49E58@swipnet.se>

I?ve put up the "Krimizizer" and Digital Reverb from the Formant German
Book now,

Anders, Sweden
http://omega.tellus.vallentuna.se/anders/



From patchell at teletrac.com  Mon May  1 15:57:31 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 06:57:31 -0700
Subject: ASM-1 question re bypass caps
References: <385000798.957162610809.JavaMail.root@web302-mc.mail.com>
Message-ID: <390D8D4B.E2B84D2E@silcom.com>



Paul Wilkinson wrote:

> I didn't know Fry's had components!  There's a Fry's only 40 minutes away!
>
> The others are all on the south peninsula - at least an hour.
>
> I repeat - it's brutal out here.  Maybe I should be making digital synths.

    Now take it easy.....breath deaply and slowly.....calm down, it doesn't
have to come to that....

    ;^)

>
>
> x x
> ~
>

    -Jim




From dbosten at hotmail.com  Mon May  1 16:11:03 2000
From: dbosten at hotmail.com (danny bosten)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 07:11:03 PDT
Subject: building analogue sequencers
Message-ID: <20000501141103.74205.qmail@hotmail.com>

hello there,
having some trouble getting through, so I hope this works....
I built the baby 10 analogue sequencer and it works, though not super.
now I'm looking to build a seq with some more features, a 16 or 2X8-step. I 
scavenged about every design I could find off of the net, and was all set to 
build this great looking machine from ETI-magazine or PE, when I read this 
article about diy'ing which specifically pointed this one out as non-working 
(as is).  So, I'd like to hear from people: who built what, and did it work?
Thanks in advance
Danny B.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Mon May  1 16:32:10 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 16:32:10 +0200
Subject: ASM-1 question re bypass caps
In-Reply-To: <200005010316.UAA23641@shell9.ba.best.com>
References: <384156135.957115510661.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com>
	<200005010316.UAA23641@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <20000501163210E.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Don Tillman <don at till.com>
Subject: Re: ASM-1 question re bypass caps
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 20:16:28 -0700 (PDT)

Cheers,

>    Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 13:25:10 -0400 (EDT)
>    From: Paul Wilkinson <synthdiy at mail.com>
> 
>    Tirade: Now, who would have thought that I wouldn't be able to buy
>    .1uF caps locally?  In the SF Bay Area of all places.  I don't see
>    a lot of hands out there.  But yes, the only parts store in the SF
>    East Bay (besides Radio Shack) only had 10 of them!  Buying parts
>    out here is infuriating.
> 
> What, there's no Fry's near you?
> 
> (An explanation for out-of-towners; Fry's is a remarkable chain of
> stores around here.  They used to be a supermarket of electronic
> parts; lots of ICs and transistors, computers, peripherals, cabling,
> etc.  Their big hook was that they also carried stuff you might need
> if you don't get out of the lab very often; cola, snacks, magazines
> and tampons.  So you would often see advertisements from them for
> sales on both DRAM chips and toothpaste.  Really funny.  Nowadays the
> electronics parts stock isn't as good as it used to be, they carry
> more appliances, and their salespeople are useless.  But they still
> carry an awful lot of good stuff.)

As being an out-of-towner I can witness that Fry's can be a real savour when in
bad needs some stuff and being in the strangieland of silicon. Their line of
electronic components isn't wide, but they at least have some. I have yeat to
find a Radio Shack store which contain any usefull content...

> How about Haltek in Mountain View?
> HSC in Santa Clara?
> San Mateo Eletronics Supply in San Mateo?
> HdB Electronics in Menlo Park?
> All Electronics in San Jose?
> Zack Electronics in San Jose?
> R & D Electronic Parts in Milpitas?

Hmm... both for DIY stuff and when you do occasional jobs out of town it could
be usefull to know of nearby electronic part stores and their usefullness or
uselessness. I have seen no real good collection of these. Should one possibly
collect some comments on it to help out other DIYers?

> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California, USA

Cheers,
Magnus (done several hits into the Palo Alto Fry's store)



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Mon May  1 16:48:29 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 16:48:29 +0200
Subject: ASM-1 Problem
In-Reply-To: <01e301bfb338$e6b008e0$ccc4edd0@borg0>
References: <383963495.956908278615.JavaMail.root@web431-mc.mail.com>
	<01e301bfb338$e6b008e0$ccc4edd0@borg0>
Message-ID: <20000501164829R.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Debby and Gene Stopp" <squarewave at jps.net>
Subject: Re: ASM-1 Problem
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:45:22 -0700

> Hi Paul,
> 
> I just realized that I can't read it either, on the copies that I send out!
> It's the resistor that takes the + input of the 3140 to ground, which is
> labelled 15K in the schematic. Most of the boards that I've built use 10K
> here - it's not really critical. 15K is just the textbook value.

Curiously enougth, looking at the ASM-1 VCF schematic available on my website
you can read clearly 15k, so checking those schematic can obviously be helpfull
at times even if they do contain a irritating number of minor errors.

> In the process I realized that the 1.8K resistor in the same place on the CV
> summing amp (+ input to ground) on the schematic has no place for a resistor
> on the PCB - it just goes straight to ground.

OUPS!!!

> No big deal electronically, but it's a mismatch between the schematic and
> the PCB, and probably the parts list too. My apologies to everybody about
> the inaccuracies - I always build PCB's from the trace/component level and
> worry about the documentation later.

Ah, and you don't let someone proofread it carefully before you release it?
Classic error ;)

> So, a message to all ASM-1 builders - thanks for the feedback, and don't
> hesitate to email me if you need help! There's probably a few more errors in
> there.

Also, proofread what's on the ASM-1 homepage and feedback to me corrections to
be done.

Cheers,
Magnus



From Roel.Das at student.groept.be  Mon May  1 17:33:30 2000
From: Roel.Das at student.groept.be (Roel Das)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:33:30 +0200
Subject: mux address/enable
Message-ID: <00ac01bfb382$9c0a3be0$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>

Hello everyone,

I'm writing software for my midiCV. And I have yet another question!

When you send a new address to the mux (max336 or dg506 in this case), can
you enable the mux at the same time, or do you have to wait?
Same for disabling the mux. Is there a problem if I always disable the mux
by sending out a zero to all the address lines and the enable line? or
should I make sure that the address stays the same when I disable it?

Thanks,
Roel

BTW, a preliminary version of the software will be available at my website
this week, and the complete text for my thesis in dutch. (Final version, I
have to hand them in on wednesday...)
www.geocities.com/roelrules/





From blacet at metro.net  Mon May  1 17:53:41 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:53:41 +0000
Subject: Where to get LM13600 in the USA?
References: <7d.4483c60.263f336d@aol.com> <008801bfb3d0$6a182540$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <390DA884.629B@metro.net>

I have a line on about 400 of these in case anyone is truly desparate.
-- 

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From patchell at teletrac.com  Mon May  1 18:43:00 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:43:00 -0700
Subject: mux address/enable
References: <00ac01bfb382$9c0a3be0$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>
Message-ID: <390DB414.6272F3D0@silcom.com>

    If I was doing it, I would disable the mux "before" changing the
addresses, just to be on the conservative side (or in other words, hold
addresses constant while changing the enable bit).

    -Jim

Roel Das wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm writing software for my midiCV. And I have yet another question!
>
> When you send a new address to the mux (max336 or dg506 in this case), can
> you enable the mux at the same time, or do you have to wait?
> Same for disabling the mux. Is there a problem if I always disable the mux
> by sending out a zero to all the address lines and the enable line? or
> should I make sure that the address stays the same when I disable it?
>
> Thanks,
> Roel
>
> BTW, a preliminary version of the software will be available at my website
> this week, and the complete text for my thesis in dutch. (Final version, I
> have to hand them in on wednesday...)
> www.geocities.com/roelrules/




From musik at tcsn.net  Mon May  1 18:49:39 2000
From: musik at tcsn.net (Ron Yost)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:49:39 -0700
Subject: Bay Area parts 
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000501094517.00951a50@mail.tcsn.net>

Geez!  The 'bay area' is the motherlode of parts houses.
You might not find one down the block, but go down to
silicon valley and you'll trip over them.  :-)

Jameco's over in Belmont, too.

Wanna' see a parts wasteland?  Try down here in Central
Calif.

~Ron




From dougf at flashpnt.com  Mon May  1 20:08:41 2000
From: dougf at flashpnt.com (Doug Ferrell)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 11:08:41 -0700
Subject: ASM-1 question re bypass caps
In-Reply-To: <385000798.957162610809.JavaMail.root@web302-mc.mail.com>
Message-ID: <000501bfb398$48f54e20$ad3ca8c0@dougf.flashpnt.com>

Paul (and Don),
	The Fry's down in Campbell only has a few resistor packs for reasonable
prices.  The rest of the once large stock of components has been replaced by
NTE garbage.  I don't know it this is happening at all the stores.  Don
mentioned all the places I go except one--Jameco.  It's on the peninsula and
not that far down 101 from SF.  They do mail order if you can't make the 20
mile drive...
	You don't know brutal until you've tried to build a synth on a student's
budget in upstate South Carolina.  Radio Shack and a TV parts store were all
I had in a 100 mile radius!  In Silicon Valley the detritus of constant
change fills the surplus shops with wonderful trailing edge parts for DIY.
Enjoy it!

Doug



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl]On Behalf Of Paul Wilkinson
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:30 PM
To: Don Tillman
Cc: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Subject: Re: ASM-1 question re bypass caps


I didn't know Fry's had components!  There's a Fry's only 40 minutes away!

The others are all on the south peninsula - at least an hour.

I repeat - it's brutal out here.  Maybe I should be making digital synths.

x x
~

- Paul

------Original Message------
From: Don Tillman <don at till.com>
To: synthdiy at mail.com
Sent: May 1, 2000 3:16:28 AM GMT
Subject: Re: ASM-1 question re bypass caps


Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 13:25:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Wilkinson <synthdiy at mail.com>

Tirade: Now, who would have thought that I wouldn't be able to buy
.1uF caps locally?  In the SF Bay Area of all places.  I don't see
a lot of hands out there.  But yes, the only parts store in the SF
East Bay (besides Radio Shack) only had 10 of them!  Buying parts
out here is infuriating.

What, there's no Fry's near you?

(An explanation for out-of-towners; Fry's is a remarkable chain of
stores around here.  They used to be a supermarket of electronic
parts; lots of ICs and transistors, computers, peripherals, cabling,
etc.  Their big hook was that they also carried stuff you might need
if you don't get out of the lab very often; cola, snacks, magazines
and tampons.  So you would often see advertisements from them for
sales on both DRAM chips and toothpaste.  Really funny.  Nowadays the
electronics parts stock isn't as good as it used to be, they carry
more appliances, and their salespeople are useless.  But they still
carry an awful lot of good stuff.)

How about Haltek in Mountain View?
HSC in Santa Clara?
San Mateo Eletronics Supply in San Mateo?
HdB Electronics in Menlo Park?
All Electronics in San Jose?
Zack Electronics in San Jose?
R & D Electronic Parts in Milpitas?

Yeah, none of these are in the East Bay, but it's not that long a
drive.

-- Don

--
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Mon May  1 20:10:20 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:10:20 +0100
Subject: Missing Formants
References: <390D83C9.84B49E58@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <000a01bfb43f$5f396700$f832883e@default>

Hi Anders and all,

>I?ve put up the "Krimizizer"...

Oh yes, it is terrible. How could they include that on the Formant? Its
a bit like Moog's noise source on the MemoryMoog. How to ruin a worthy
instrument in one easy lesson.

>... and Digital Reverb

But this is more interesting. One bit sigma delta ADC/DAC by the looks
of it driving a one bit FIFO. Could be done using discrete stuff, by
discrete I mean MSI. May be worth a go. But reverb is not just feeding
back the final delayed signal to the input. Although that effect is
useful sometimes.

Anyway, thank you Anders for putting the stuff up onsite.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm







From gerryd at ntx-tech.com  Mon May  1 20:13:10 2000
From: gerryd at ntx-tech.com (Gerry Dahl)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 13:13:10 -0500
Subject: Hard sync on OSC's
Message-ID: <00e001bfb398$ea780bc0$6601a8c0@goofy.ntx-tech.com>

Hi Everyone,
I have a project that needs the OSC's to hard sync. I have 2 CEM3340's
and I see that pin 6 is the hard sync input but I want to know what
supporting
circuitry I'll need to connect these 2 OSC's together.

Thanks.
Gerry Dahl

Keep On Moogin'




From bnillson at hotmail.com  Mon May  1 20:20:10 2000
From: bnillson at hotmail.com (Bjorn Julin)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:20:10 GMT
Subject: mux address/enable
Message-ID: <20000501182010.26935.qmail@hotmail.com>

>From: Jim Patchell <patchell at teletrac.com>
>Reply-To: patchell at silcom.com
>To: Roel Das <Roel.Das at student.groept.be>
>CC: Synth DIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: Re: mux address/enable
>Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:43:00 -0700
>
>     If I was doing it, I would disable the mux "before" changing the
>addresses, just to be on the conservative side (or in other words, hold
>addresses constant while changing the enable bit).

Yepp, otherwise you would send the muxed CV to an different channel.
If its about muxing a CV of course!

BJ


>Roel Das wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I'm writing software for my midiCV. And I have yet another question!
> >
> > When you send a new address to the mux (max336 or dg506 in this case), 
>can
> > you enable the mux at the same time, or do you have to wait?
> > Same for disabling the mux. Is there a problem if I always disable the 
>mux
> > by sending out a zero to all the address lines and the enable line? or
> > should I make sure that the address stays the same when I disable it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roel
> >
> > BTW, a preliminary version of the software will be available at my 
>website
> > this week, and the complete text for my thesis in dutch. (Final version, 
>I
> > have to hand them in on wednesday...)
> > www.geocities.com/roelrules/
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From Hcabnivek at aol.com  Mon May  1 21:22:21 2000
From: Hcabnivek at aol.com (Hcabnivek at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:22:21 EDT
Subject: Where to get LM13600 in the USA?
Message-ID: <7d.4483c60.263f336d@aol.com>

Hi All,
Digikey and Mouser show quantity 0 for lm13600 (and I've never been clear on 
whether lm13700 is a direct replace).  Anyone know a good source in the US?

Thanks,
Kevin



From thescum at surfree.com  Tue May  2 01:00:59 2000
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:00:59 -0400
Subject: ASM-1 question re bypass caps
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000501230059.009ba21c@smtp.surfree.com>

>http://www.surpluselectronics.com/
>has a geographic list of surplus electronics dealers,
>which might be a start.

Am I the only person who finds their Massachusetts link broken?

Thanks,


Byron Jacquot




From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Tue May  2 01:27:57 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob Zero)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:27:57 -0500
Subject: Hard sync on OSC's
References: <00e001bfb398$ea780bc0$6601a8c0@goofy.ntx-tech.com>
Message-ID: <000901bfb3c4$f7727aa0$5d2f2bd1@u4r0w4>

It looks like you will need to differentiate a saw wave with a simple cap in
line with the signal, then run it into an inverter with its normal output
set to 0v.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: Gerry Dahl <gerryd at ntx-tech.com>
To: synth diy <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 1:13 PM
Subject: Hard sync on OSC's


> Hi Everyone,
> I have a project that needs the OSC's to hard sync. I have 2 CEM3340's
> and I see that pin 6 is the hard sync input but I want to know what
> supporting
> circuitry I'll need to connect these 2 OSC's together.
>
> Thanks.
> Gerry Dahl
>
> Keep On Moogin'
>
>




From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue May  2 01:41:43 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 01:41:43 +0200
Subject: Hard sync on OSC's
References: <00e001bfb398$ea780bc0$6601a8c0@goofy.ntx-tech.com>
Message-ID: <005101bfb3c6$cfd1e880$2a68353e@jhaible>

> I have a project that needs the OSC's to hard sync. I have 2 CEM3340's
> and I see that pin 6 is the hard sync input but I want to know what
> supporting
> circuitry I'll need to connect these 2 OSC's together.

http://www.synthfool.com/diy/hj2vco.gif

Ugly handwritten schemos, but any color of 3340 sync you like.

JH.





From higg0008 at tc.umn.edu  Tue May  2 01:55:08 2000
From: higg0008 at tc.umn.edu (Paul R. Higgins)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:55:08 -0500
Subject: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
Message-ID: <iss.52ae.390e1958.794fa.1@amethyst.tc.umn.edu>

Does anyone know what the current status is on the availibility of the 3280 OTA?
My Digi-Key catalog claims that they still carry it, but people on the list have
said otherwise.

I was also looking at the frequency shifter in the EN Builder's Guide and I had 
a couple of questions that I knew the DIYers would have answers to. 

1)  The dumb question first: what the heck does a frequency shifter do, and what
is it useful for?  I know it's not the same as a pitch transposer, but that's 
all I know. 

2)  Can you still get the AD533 analog multiplier used in the EN frequency 
shifter?  If not, is there a substitution available?

Thanks,
-PRH

_____________________________________________
Paul Higgins
email: higg0008 at tc.umn.edu
University College, University of Minnesota
_____________________________________________




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue May  2 02:50:27 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:50:27 -0700
Subject: Where to get LM13600 in the USA?
References: <7d.4483c60.263f336d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008801bfb3d0$6a182540$0100a8c0@homenet>

Nobody freak out over this!!! They are simply out of stock until 6/26. They are
receiving 1000 pcs. You can reserve what you want now and as soon as they
come in they'll ship.

Tom




> Hi All,
> Digikey and Mouser show quantity 0 for lm13600 (and I've never been clear on 
> whether lm13700 is a direct replace).  Anyone know a good source in the US?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin




From synth1 at airmail.net  Tue May  2 04:16:36 2000
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:16:36 -0500
Subject: MOTM Module #1000!
Message-ID: <000b01bfb3dc$72132ea0$0c9dfea9@p400>

Just a quick thank you to everyone on AH and synthDIY for supporting
the MOTM modular. We shipped module #1000 today! Although there is
probably no way of ever knowing for sure, this is probably in the top 5 or
so.

95% of our customers are from AH and DIY, and  everyone has been just super!

Many more modules to come (we love *filters*!).

Paul Schreiber
Synthesis Technology
www.synthtech.com/motm





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May  2 04:31:55 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:31:55 -0400
Subject: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
References: <iss.52ae.390e1958.794fa.1@amethyst.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <390E3E1A.9FA9CC7B@prodigy.net>

A frequency shifter moves an input signal up or down by a constant amount in
Hertz...
so for a 100Hz shift. an input of 100Hz becomes 200Hz, 1000Hz becomes 1100Hz...
much different than a pitch shifter, which keeps the pitch (human perception) change
constant... like up one octave (2 * input frequency)

Uses ???

It makes synth sounds ???

H^)  harry

"Paul R. Higgins" wrote:

> Does anyone know what the current status is on the availibility of the 3280 OTA?
> My Digi-Key catalog claims that they still carry it, but people on the list have
> said otherwise.
>
> I was also looking at the frequency shifter in the EN Builder's Guide and I had
> a couple of questions that I knew the DIYers would have answers to.
>
> 1)  The dumb question first: what the heck does a frequency shifter do, and what
> is it useful for?  I know it's not the same as a pitch transposer, but that's
> all I know.
>
> 2)  Can you still get the AD533 analog multiplier used in the EN frequency
> shifter?  If not, is there a substitution available?
>
> Thanks,
> -PRH
>
> _____________________________________________
> Paul Higgins
> email: higg0008 at tc.umn.edu
> University College, University of Minnesota
> _____________________________________________




From patchell at teletrac.com  Tue May  2 04:48:16 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (patchell)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:48:16 -0700
Subject: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
References: <iss.52ae.390e1958.794fa.1@amethyst.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <390E41F0.94B1B010@silcom.com>


"Paul R. Higgins" wrote:

> Does anyone know what the current status is on the availibility of the 3280 OTA?
> My Digi-Key catalog claims that they still carry it, but people on the list have
> said otherwise.
>

    I just purchased 100 of these little suckers from Newark (it is my favorite
part).  I talked to the people at Intersil and they say that yes, this is an active
part.  Digikey seems to have dropped it, probably because it is not a real big
mover.  It is not a big deal to purchase parts from some of the more mainstream
distributors.  Doing it over the internet seems to make it much easier.

>
> Thanks,
> -PRH
>
> _____________________________________________
> Paul Higgins
> email: higg0008 at tc.umn.edu
> University College, University of Minnesota
> _____________________________________________

-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May  2 05:16:55 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:16:55 -0400
Subject: MOTM Module #1000!
References: <000b01bfb3dc$72132ea0$0c9dfea9@p400>
Message-ID: <390E48A7.B48FD419@prodigy.net>

So... does the lucky 1000th customer win anything...
New Car... perhaps ???

LOL...

Hey Congratulations Paul.  I hope some day you will laugh at #1000 and say
"remember
back then when...."

H^) harry

Paul Schreiber wrote:

> Just a quick thank you to everyone on AH and synthDIY for supporting
> the MOTM modular. We shipped module #1000 today! Although there is
> probably no way of ever knowing for sure, this is probably in the top 5 or
> so.
>
> 95% of our customers are from AH and DIY, and  everyone has been just super!
>
> Many more modules to come (we love *filters*!).
>
> Paul Schreiber
> Synthesis Technology
> www.synthtech.com/motm




From blacet at metro.net  Tue May  2 09:39:15 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 07:39:15 +0000
Subject: FS: misc EFM boards
Message-ID: <390E8623.3E99@metro.net>

We have a winnah!
Initials are GD.
Thanks to everyone else for your interest.

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From mgm at starlingtech.com  Tue May  2 13:20:29 2000
From: mgm at starlingtech.com (Michael Moncur)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 05:20:29 -0600
Subject: Where to get LM13600 in the USA?
In-Reply-To: <000e01bfb435$e64c7520$0100a8c0@homenet>
References: <7d.4483c60.263f336d@aol.com>
 <008801bfb3d0$6a182540$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000502051504.009bdc50@mail.xmission.com>

on 06:54 AM 5/2/00 , tomg wrote:

>  I am convinced that
>someone monitoring this list is buying up all the DIY parts. It seems
>Mouser had a run on 13600s right after I pointed out that they were
>the ones to use not too long ago.

I'll admit I bought 4 of them after reading that... So maybe it was just a lot
of lurkers buying small quantities at once. The Internet really wreaks havoc
with inventory systems sometimes.


--
michael moncur   mgm at starlingtech.com   http://www.starlingtech.com/
"Someday we'll look back on this moment and plow into a parked car."
                 -- Evan Davis



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue May  2 13:42:17 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 04:42:17 -0700
Subject: mini CAM + BassAce
Message-ID: <004001bfb42b$7939fca0$0100a8c0@homenet>

There was not quite enough interest to run panels for the BassAce. I may
be able to do something in the future but until sales increase...no panels.
That's the bad news. The good news is I made some major design changes
to the size of the pcboard and will be able to sell it at a much lower price.
So maybe panels sooner than later?? I revamped the EGs and made some 
other very nice changes.

What changed? Well..the initial idea was to mount all controls/jacks/etc..
to the board so there would be no wire-flying. Once I abandoned that
concept it was easy to reduce the size by at least half. I grouped and 
labeled all connection pads. For example if a pot is to be connected there
are 3 pads labeled 1-2-3 in a box with a text label for the function. This
way it's fairly easy to use ribbon-cable and that keeps it nice and neat.
Although it's still flying-wires.....

I am out of vco4s and vcf2s so I'm running a mini-CAM with the BassAce.
This includes the Trevor Page/Tomg RX-CV midi-interface, the vco4e
(enhanced), the vcf12a (2040 thing), the vc-r-adsr, and the vcf2d 
(vcf2e without the power-supply/eg). These are all double sided silk-
screened...bla bla bla....

Ohhh...One thing that is new is my wife has decided to start checking
my boards!!! I think her exact words were "You are brilliant darling
but you're sloppy sometimes". This is really good because she has an 
incredible eye for details...it's really incredible trust me on that
one....;-) 

We are now in the 21 day pause between the time I turn it over and
delivery. I'll be putting up support files while we wait. I'll ask for 
orders next week when I have the final prices. If you would like to
express interest I will be happy to reply and/or supply a few details.


BassAce - Midi bass synth - 303 kinda like thing
VCO4e - Enhanced saw/sq/tri/sine vco
VCF12a - 4P s&k 2040 sounding thing
VCF2f - no lfo/ps CAM version - transistor ladder

RX-CV -  pic midi-interface KCV,PB-CV,GATE,SLIDE,MOD
CAM sized midi to CV converter.

VC-R-ADSR/LFO - Voltage controlled adsr w/rate (response)
What does that mean? Well...you can set a envelope and then change
the overall response time with one control. It also works in lfo
mode to set the frequency. That means you can set up some sort
of strange attack/decay and then change the freq of the lfo without
changing the envelope.
 
More soon....CAM2 and MadMouse2 are about 45 days away!


Tom













From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue May  2 14:54:56 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 05:54:56 -0700
Subject: Where to get LM13600 in the USA?
References: <7d.4483c60.263f336d@aol.com> <008801bfb3d0$6a182540$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <000e01bfb435$e64c7520$0100a8c0@homenet>

> > (and I've never been clear on whether lm13700 is a direct replace

Sorry... I ment to answer this earlier. In VCA applications the 13700s
or ne5517s are fine. If you replace the on-chip buffer with an opamp
or fet buffer you can use them instead of 13600s in VCO/VCF apps.
Don't be afraid to use 3080s or 3280s w/buffers. The 3280 is one
of my faves as far as sound goes but the pin out is complete crap. They 
tend to be lot's more $$. (Seems like I just did this....?)

Jim. If you don't mind telling...what sort of deal did you get from 
Newark?  This could be a dangerous question. I am convinced that
someone monitoring this list is buying up all the DIY parts. It seems
Mouser had a run on 13600s right after I pointed out that they were
the ones to use not too long ago. 

Not really meaning to start more crap...I gota ask! Is it not safe to
say anything in the open on this list anymore.  I know it's not 
paranoia damm-it or we would all had a small personal stock of
those 726s Jim wanted us to go in on. Not to mention the 2000
vanishing 1000p polys I had a line on......not to mention.....the
other.....thing..... Nobody respond to this please! I'm venting!

If you need 13600s for a filter you got from EFM. I will ship them
uninsured for $1 each + $1 S&H  for the order. This is only for
EFM customers. Sorry I only have a few...

Tom

 





From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue May  2 14:58:43 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 05:58:43 -0700
Subject: mini CAM + BassAce
References: <004001bfb42b$7939fca0$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <000f01bfb436$2adb1de0$0100a8c0@homenet>


> There was not quite enough interest to run panels for the BassAce. I may
> be able to do something in the future but until sales increase...no panels.
> That's the bad news. The good news is I made some major design changes
> to the size of the pcboard and will be able to sell it at a much lower price.
> So maybe panels sooner than later?? I revamped the EGs and made some 
> other very nice changes.


Ohh....one more thing. If you have ever bought a pcb from EFM you are
entitled to a $5 discount and free TC on any BassAce deal. Kim and I
just want to say thank you.

Tom





From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Tue May  2 17:17:45 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 17:17:45 +0200 
Subject: Missing Formants
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01DC7A79@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>


	>>... and Digital Reverb
	>
	>But this is more interesting. One bit sigma delta ADC/DAC by the
looks
	>of it driving a one bit FIFO. Could be done using discrete stuff,
by
	>discrete I mean MSI.

Deltalab showed the way. I built something like that some 10 yeras ago as
well,
based on an article published in Elrad called "Delta Delay". I don't have
the
box anymore (sold it for 50 Dollars to a guy who brought it back a week
later
and said it was broken. I'm quite sure it wasn't when I sold it, but what
the heck.
Payed back the money, threw the box in the "removal of bulky refuse" (is
this
actually the English word for Sperrm?ll ??).
Ok, it was a mistake. But those were the times of the DX7 and D50, and
Midiverbs.

Btw, it was *not* a sigma delta converter (Neither was the elektor circuit
if memory
serves), but it's predecessor, a "delta modulator". No sigma - no coding of
DC.
Worked ok on audio signals, though. It was adaptive, i.e. the step size was
varied according to the signal, forming a sort of compander system.
Reportedly
better than the elektor single-chip solution, as these chips were optimized
for
telephone speech rather than audio.
I must have the article somewhere, but not at hand. Better go for the
original Deltalab
schemos anyway. Make a patent search for "Deltalab" and find everything you
need,
including detailed schemos.
Or even better, buy a used Effectron.

JH.



From chordman at flash.net  Tue May  2 17:36:22 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 17:36:22
Subject: I am new
Message-ID: <200005030044.TAA06150@ogopogo.flash.net>

If you really want to junk it and it works, I'm quite sure you
could sell it, even if it doesn't seem to fit together.  I have two,
but they are the rack panel type and I really like them.  The 
band I play with loves the sounds I get out of it.

Anybody here got one together in the desktop case that can help?

Email to John S. may not be answered right away, he does get busy, but 
phone calls should work.  I'm sure they can help, one way or the other.  
IMHO, helping their customers is a PAiA hallmark.  That's been my 
personal experience.

BonoVox9 at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 5/2/00 5:58:56 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>thescum at surfree.com writes:
>
><< You might start with a Paia Fatman.  It's a kit that comes with everything
> you need to build it, and some pretty good instructions.  I'll bet that
> there are at least a few folks on this list who got their start building
> synths with the Fatman. >>
>
>speaking of the fatman, I think I hate mine. i can't get the stupid desktop 
>case to fit together right, and i wrote paia and they didn't write back. i'm 
>frustrated.i got the knobs to work right. paia said it was their fault 
>because the wrote the instructions backwards or something. blah. and i'm not 
>too good at tuning it either. i think it's going to be junked. and it upsets 
>me, because i was really excited about it.
>

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue May  2 21:13:27 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:13:27 -0700
Subject: madmouse pdf
Message-ID: <002601bfb46a$8061f660$0100a8c0@homenet>

Seems the madmouse link was broken. Try this one.

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pcb/madm.pdf

Tom





From bnillson at hotmail.com  Tue May  2 23:40:03 2000
From: bnillson at hotmail.com (Bjorn Julin)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:40:03 GMT
Subject: mini CAM + BassAce
Message-ID: <20000502214003.31015.qmail@hotmail.com>

>Ohhh...One thing that is new is my wife has decided to start checking
>my boards!!! I think her exact words were "You are brilliant darling
>but you're sloppy sometimes". This is really good because she has an
>incredible eye for details...it's really incredible trust me on that
>one....;-)

Now, isnt that nice, your are lucky to
have such a nice and understanding wife.

Lucky you. :-)

Your home page is really nice with all your
projects as pdf files, shame that some of
the pictures are a little bit scrambled!
I wish that more folks would present their
works in the pdf format.
Your GIF pictures used to be really nice and clear,
but they seams to have gone away!!

Good working anywhay.

BJ

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From rico303 at wanadoo.dk  Tue May  2 23:53:02 2000
From: rico303 at wanadoo.dk (Martin Johansen)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:53:02 +0200
Subject: I am new
In-Reply-To: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPKEDFCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>
Message-ID: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEDGCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>


Hey

I am new, i never try to make sometinge before
what is easy to build

Martin Johansen, Denmark



From thescum at surfree.com  Wed May  3 01:02:19 2000
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:02:19 -0400
Subject: I am new
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000502230219.009b52f0@smtp.surfree.com>

>I am new, i never try to make sometinge before
>what is easy to build

You might start with a Paia Fatman.  It's a kit that comes with everything
you need to build it, and some pretty good instructions.  I'll bet that
there are at least a few folks on this list who got their start building
synths with the Fatman.

It's at http://www.paia.com

Byron

(and should we start putting stuff like this in a FAQ?)




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Wed May  3 01:19:24 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 01:19:24 +0200
Subject: I am new
In-Reply-To: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEDGCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>
References: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPKEDFCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>
	<LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEDGCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>
Message-ID: <20000503011924I.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Martin Johansen" <rico303 at wanadoo.dk>
Subject: I am new
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:53:02 +0200

> 
> Hey

Hi there!

> I am new, i never try to make sometinge before
> what is easy to build

OK. Newbee question number 1A (no offence, but it really seems popular).

Many good gentlemen will enlight you with things like:

1) Tomg's projects
2) Gene Stopps ASM-1
3) Paia's FATMAN
4) Paul's MOTM

These form some fundamental shape of projects with varying milage in startup
effort (getting the stuff), cost, complexity, building skills required,
building time, quality and feasable end result usefullness. Further I would
add the feasability for the builder to extend the curcuit migth come in to
some degree.

I'd say that if you want top of the notch quality, go for the MOTM modules
which (I haven't seen the in real life, but judging from various input) really
seems to go far, but they do cost some money. Well spent most probably, but
still, could be a bit of an investment. You are building a modular here,
moduler for module, so the freedom you get should be just wild.

The Paia FATMAN is a MIDI controled single voice analog synth. It's a complete
kit (just as the MOTM) but it falls on a lower price and quality level than
the MOTM.

The ASM-1 goes beyond the FATMAN in quality, also you have larger freedom to
interconnect stuff as you want. However, there is no complete kit with all the
components, you can only get the PCB, so you have to "hunt" the components
yourself (you can regularly see questions relating to this here). Also, there
is no frontplate that comes along with the PCB, so you have to invent your own.
This also carries with it the responsibility of trying to figure out what
features goes where and the cost of pots, knobs, contacts etc. easilly gets
forgotten. It is however a fund project to build and quite few has been built.
The ASM-1 has been around for quite some time on Synth-DIY.

Then, Tomg's projects is varying in size etc. Trying to grasp all of the
modules etc in a few sentences are hard. I think you should take a look at his
pages to see if some stuff could possibly be a good starter.

Now, I let the others elaborate on this starter to an answer. This question and
answer really belongs in a FAQ!

Cheers,
Magnus (clearly ASM-1 biased, just so you know ;)



From adaaxs at erols.com  Wed May  3 01:39:13 2000
From: adaaxs at erols.com (J.G. Wong)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:39:13 +0000
Subject: pc boards fs
References: <002601bfb46a$8061f660$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <390F6715.B4F9F43A@erols.com>

Hello,

	I've been laying out my projects and found I have several extra EFM
boards.  Whatever they cost is the price.

1 Madmouse 1 board

1 Seq2  sequencer board

1 VCF2e board


Thanks

G, Wong



From BonoVox9 at aol.com  Wed May  3 01:54:49 2000
From: BonoVox9 at aol.com (BonoVox9 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:54:49 EDT
Subject: I am new
Message-ID: <4c.4f14535.2640c4c9@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/2/00 5:58:56 PM Central Daylight Time, 
thescum at surfree.com writes:

<< You might start with a Paia Fatman.  It's a kit that comes with everything
 you need to build it, and some pretty good instructions.  I'll bet that
 there are at least a few folks on this list who got their start building
 synths with the Fatman. >>

speaking of the fatman, I think I hate mine. i can't get the stupid desktop 
case to fit together right, and i wrote paia and they didn't write back. i'm 
frustrated.i got the knobs to work right. paia said it was their fault 
because the wrote the instructions backwards or something. blah. and i'm not 
too good at tuning it either. i think it's going to be junked. and it upsets 
me, because i was really excited about it.



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed May  3 03:44:51 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 03:44:51 +0200
Subject: I am new
References: <4c.4f14535.2640c4c9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000901bfb4a1$2cec9620$0400a8c0@Theo>

Hey keep going man!

<dr.Ruth mode>
    The first time is something you always remember
    but in most cases not an instand succes.
    After a view times you get more experienced and more feeling
    about what to do and enjoy it more and more.
    Then maybe you will start to experiment and try out new things.
    Thats were the real fun starts, finding your own variations.
    Now go on and learn to do it the right way.
    Enjoy!!
</dr. Ruth mode>


Cheers Theo


----- Original Message -----
From: <BonoVox9 at aol.com>
To: <thescum at surfree.com>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: I am new


> speaking of the fatman, I think I hate mine. i can't get the stupid
desktop
> case to fit together right, and i wrote paia and they didn't write back.
i'm
> frustrated.i got the knobs to work right. paia said it was their fault
> because the wrote the instructions backwards or something. blah. and i'm
not
> too good at tuning it either. i think it's going to be junked. and it
upsets
> me, because i was really excited about it.




From vampope at swbell.net  Wed May  3 06:37:23 2000
From: vampope at swbell.net (Tim Curtis)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:37:23 -0500
Subject: Voltage Regulator question
Message-ID: <390FAD03.D67C8F89@swbell.net>

Hi Everyone -

I have an old Garfield Electronics Nano Doc here that I haven't used in
a few years because I wasn't sure what kind of adaptor to use with it.

I just cracked it open and found that it's wired Pin negative and that
the whole thing is regulated with a 7805.  I powered it up with a Boss
ACA120, which is 9V at 200mA and got the +5V at all the appropiate
places.

Is this an okay adaptor to use full time on this piece?  Is 9V too much
to feed a 7805?  I don't believe so, but I could be wrong.

Thanks,


Tim




From ka4hjh at gte.net  Wed May  3 06:43:46 2000
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 00:43:46 -0400
Subject: I am new
In-Reply-To: <4c.4f14535.2640c4c9@aol.com>
References: <4c.4f14535.2640c4c9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p04310100b5355c6e18c3@[63.25.40.45]>

>speaking of the fatman, I think I hate mine. i can't get the stupid desktop
>case to fit together right, and i wrote paia and they didn't write back. i'm
>frustrated.i got the knobs to work right. paia said it was their fault
>because the wrote the instructions backwards or something. blah. and i'm not
>too good at tuning it either. i think it's going to be junked. and it upsets
>me, because i was really excited about it.

Don't give up yet. Problems like these have happened to everyone on 
this list, including me. I get upset very easily myself. I yell and 
throw things around. It's hard to think when you're mad at the stupid 
thing.


Is the tuning control too sensitive for making fine adjustments? You 
could try a higher quality pot, or put a bigger knob on it.

Or perhaps you don't have perfect pitch (who does?). I can't tune 
anything with a tuner of some sort.


Keep asking questions. Somebody here has the answer.


-- 
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"



From ka4hjh at gte.net  Wed May  3 07:47:16 2000
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 01:47:16 -0400
Subject: Voltage Regulator question
In-Reply-To: <390FAD03.D67C8F89@swbell.net>
References: <390FAD03.D67C8F89@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <p04310103b53568e706eb@[63.23.233.169]>

>Is this an okay adaptor to use full time on this piece?  Is 9V too much
>to feed a 7805?  I don't believe so, but I could be wrong.

The 7805 needs at least 8V to work properly. The actual voltage from 
your adaptor will depend on the load imposed by the circuit so the 9V 
rating is only a ballpark figure. Measure the voltage across the 
filter caps while the device is on (careful with those probes). Also 
make sure it's not too high for the caps ( >90% of the rated voltage 
is too high). How hot does the regulator get? If you can keep your 
finger on it for more than five seconds you're probably safe.

Another possibility is that the adaptor is itself being overloaded, 
not enough to prevent the device from working but enough to cause 
distortion, hum, etc., but you'll hear that--assuming this is an 
audio gadget.


I have a KORG pedalboard that worked fine with one adaptor, but blew 
a transistor in the PS with another slightly higher rated one. Mind 
you I think there may be an excessively high load on that little 
transistor, because it gets WARM.


-- 
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"



From mitch at sirius.com  Wed May  3 09:16:08 2000
From: mitch at sirius.com (Mitchell Hudson)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:16:08 -0700
Subject: Adjustable noise
Message-ID: <390FD236.16538EDE@sirius.com>

    I want to make a noise source with some adjustability. I have made a
schematic which mostly plagerized from EFM and forest Mims. The idea is
to make a noise source for a sample and hold with ability to scale and
offset the noise. I have put a schematic on my web site.

www.webdevils.com/schematics/noise_source.jpg

    Of course it must be pointed out that I really have no idea what I
doing. so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

--M






From thelab at sprint.ca  Wed May  3 12:29:55 2000
From: thelab at sprint.ca (|||| Philip ||||)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:29:55 -0300
Subject: Arp Axxe Schematic?
References: <385263261.956988392046.JavaMail.root@web40.pub01>
Message-ID: <002f01bfb4ea$86eba3c0$a61f67d1@philip>

Anyone have Arp Axxe Schematic. A fellow came over with one that does not
seem to be passing kbrd CV to Osc nor to filter. The Osc will track kbrd if
Noise>S/H is kicked it. Weird one.

Philip




From tech4 at freshmilk.com  Wed May  3 15:12:01 2000
From: tech4 at freshmilk.com (Louis Otero)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:12:01 -0400
Subject: 3080's
References: <38F69E08.D32036CA@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <391025A1.2E014B5D@freshmilk.com>

Some wrote the list prior and told us about a program you can get for
www.partminer.com.  It is a cool search engine that looks at 10 or so
vendors to see if they have the part. It puts all in one list and in some
cases it tells you vendors stock availability.

Luis

Tim Curtis wrote:

> Hi Everyone -
>
> Pardon a Naive question, but is it still possible to find 3080's?  While
> calibrating my OB-8 I found some that were apparently too far out of
> tolerance, because when I replaced them with a few from an OB-X it tuned
> right up.
>
> Now, however, I need to find some for my OB-X.  Figure I may as well
> pick up some extras while I'm at it.  Anyone know of a good, inexpensive
> source?
>
> While I'm at it, I'm also looking for a decent source for 3046's and
> some common op-amps like TL081's, 4558's, TL072's...  There is a really
> large Electronic Supply place about 5 blocks from me (coincidentally
> enough called "Electronic Supply"), but for most everything I come in
> looking for they only have the NTE "equivalent," so a TL081 is a little
> over $4.00, 4558's are $3 and change...
>
> And I'm still not even really clear on whether or not these are actually
> the exact replacement parts, or just parts that are suitable to be used
> in place of the original.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim




From sdcurtin at lucent.com  Wed May  3 16:02:30 2000
From: sdcurtin at lucent.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:02:30 -0400 
Subject: I am new
Message-ID: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1D48@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com>

Even simpler than the FatMan, buy a copy of Electronics Projects for
Musicians from PAiA and build a few projects from there.  PAiA sells boards
and parts kits for all of them.

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at lucent.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	Martin Johansen[SMTP:rico303 at wanadoo.dk]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, May 02, 2000 5:53 PM
> To: 	synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: 	I am new
> 
> 
> Hey
> 
> I am new, i never try to make sometinge before
> what is easy to build
> 
> Martin Johansen, Denmark
> 



From blacet at metro.net  Wed May  3 16:26:04 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:26:04 +0000
Subject: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
References: <20000503181629.17510.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <391036FC.1026@metro.net>

Blacet Research: (more links at bottom of main page...)

http://www.blacet.com

Modular Synth Web Page: (Links to manufacturers...)

http://www.modularsynth.com
-- 

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From synthdiy at mail.com  Wed May  3 19:23:44 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:23:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Adjustable noise
Message-ID: <384197054.957374624166.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com>

The Mad Mouse Mods page at
http://www.xavax.com/efm/pcb-files.html
has exactly what you're looking for - a noise source with sample-and-hold. 
It's the 3rd to last circuit.

BTW, does anyone of any chips that consist of multiple 2N3819 FET's?

- Paul

------Original Message------
From: Mitchell Hudson <mitch at sirius.com>
To: EFM Synth DIY <efm at xavax.com>, Synth DIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: May 3, 2000 7:16:08 AM GMT
Subject: Adjustable noise


I want to make a noise source with some adjustability. I have made a
schematic which mostly plagerized from EFM and forest Mims. The idea is
to make a noise source for a sample and hold with ability to scale and
offset the noise. I have put a schematic on my web site.

www.webdevils.com/schematics/noise_source.jpg

Of course it must be pointed out that I really have no idea what I
doing. so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

--M

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From wendall_dogman at yahoo.com  Wed May  3 20:16:29 2000
From: wendall_dogman at yahoo.com (Dan Steeby)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:16:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
Message-ID: <20000503181629.17510.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm new too, so I'll piggyback the other newbie's post
and ask for some links to these projects.  I already
know about PAIA's site, at least, but the others are
all news to me.  Where are these online?  Thanks!

> 1) Tomg's projects
> 2) Gene Stopps ASM-1
> 3) Paia's FATMAN
> 4) Paul's MOTM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From rico303 at wanadoo.dk  Wed May  3 21:23:18 2000
From: rico303 at wanadoo.dk (Martin Johansen)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:23:18 +0200
Subject: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
In-Reply-To: <384197054.957374624166.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEDLCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>


Thanx alot to all

I belive that i have most the tools. I am a electrician
But do i need a oscilloscope?




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Wed May  3 21:30:30 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 15:30:30 EDT
Subject: Arp Axxe Schematic?
Message-ID: <9f.4d423f1.2641d856@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/3/00 2:35:08 AM, you wrote:

<<Anyone have Arp Axxe Schematic. A fellow came over with one that does not

seem to be passing kbrd CV to Osc nor to filter. The Osc will track kbrd if

Noise>S/H is kicked it. Weird one.>>

Hello Philip,

Be sure to check that 1/8" "CV Input" jack on the rear panel.  It has a 
normalled connection that can sometimes go bad and stop the CV from getting 
to the VCO.  I've seen this happen on a couple of Axxe's.

Michael Bacich



From patchell at teletrac.com  Wed May  3 21:48:51 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:48:51 -0700
Subject: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
References: <20000503181629.17510.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <391082A3.13E52206@silcom.com>

     I have links to these and more on my
webpage:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell

    -Jim

Dan Steeby wrote:

> I'm new too, so I'll piggyback the other newbie's post
> and ask for some links to these projects.  I already
> know about PAIA's site, at least, but the others are
> all news to me.  Where are these online?  Thanks!
>
> > 1) Tomg's projects
> > 2) Gene Stopps ASM-1
> > 3) Paia's FATMAN
> > 4) Paul's MOTM
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com/




From drtempus at home.com  Wed May  3 22:53:50 2000
From: drtempus at home.com (DrTempus)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:53:50 -0400
Subject: ARP Quartet schematic
References: <9f.4d423f1.2641d856@aol.com>
Message-ID: <391091DE.84DD5FDC@home.com>

Can anyone point me to an online copy of the ARP Quartet schematic?

Just picked up a Quartet and its acting strange.  Brass is not working, 
and organ only working when selected with the brass. go figure.  Organ
justs humms when selected alone. 

Thanks in advance.

-Allen
 www.darkaether.net



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Wed May  3 23:15:23 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:15:23 +0200
Subject: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
In-Reply-To: <20000503181629.17510.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20000503181629.17510.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20000503231523B.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Dan Steeby <wendall_dogman at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:16:29 -0700 (PDT)

> I'm new too, so I'll piggyback the other newbie's post
> and ask for some links to these projects.  I already
> know about PAIA's site, at least, but the others are
> all news to me.  Where are these online?  Thanks!

Lazy me...

> > 1) Tomg's projects

http://www.aladan.net/efm/

> > 2) Gene Stopps ASM-1

http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/

> > 3) Paia's FATMAN

http://www.paia.com/fatman.htm

> > 4) Paul's MOTM

http://www.synthtech.com/motm/index.html

Now, let's hack this into the Synth-DIY Gray Pages, shall we?

Cheers,
Magnus



From patchell at teletrac.com  Thu May  4 00:13:18 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:13:18 -0700
Subject: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
References: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEDLCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>
Message-ID: <3910A47E.A4B57690@silcom.com>

    A scope is probably manditory.  You do not need much of a scope.  I
have a real cheap 20MHz scope, and that will do just fine.  You may also
be able to find a nice used scope (Tektronix 465B is a good one to shoot
for, if you can afford it).

    The scope and a good 4 1/2 digit DVM are probably the two most
import pieces of equipment you will need.  Also consider a frequency
counter, a signal generator, bench top power supply.....

    I am sure there are other things as well.

    -Jim

Martin Johansen wrote:

> Thanx alot to all
>
> I belive that i have most the tools. I am a electrician
> But do i need a oscilloscope?




From grichter at execpc.com  Thu May  4 00:50:43 2000
From: grichter at execpc.com (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:50:43 -0500
Subject: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
Message-ID: <200005032250.RAA02094@mailgw00.execpc.com>

Don't forget

http://www.musicsynthesizer.com

for bunches of DIY links.

----------
>From: "tomg" <efm3 at mediaone.net>
>To: <wendall_dogman at yahoo.com>, "Magnus Danielson" <cfmd at swipnet.se>
>Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: Re: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
>Date: Wed, May 3, 2000, 8:15 PM
>

> I know it's hard to keep up and EFM files seem to be
> everywhere.
>
> This is Adrian's mirror of the original EFM site.
>> > > 1) Tomg's projects
>> http://www.aladan.net/efm/
>
> I moved everything to xavax last year. This is my current active site.
> http://www.xavax.com/efm/
>
> There is a gc_efm pcb projet backup.
> http://www.geocities.com/efm_gc/
>
> and Mike's EFM ftp..
> ftp.eadinc.com
> (BTW I can no longer update or change files here...Mike?)
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> 



From thelab at sprint.ca  Thu May  4 01:09:31 2000
From: thelab at sprint.ca (|||| Philip ||||)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:09:31 -0300
Subject: ARP Quartet schematic
References: <9f.4d423f1.2641d856@aol.com> <391091DE.84DD5FDC@home.com>
Message-ID: <001901bfb554$a689eb00$582067d1@philip>

I had one with similar problems. I found a few broken connects on those
brittle ribbon connectors and also cleaned the contacts
Philip

----- Original Message -----
From: DrTempus <drtempus at home.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 5:53 PM
Subject: ARP Quartet schematic


> Can anyone point me to an online copy of the ARP Quartet schematic?
>
> Just picked up a Quartet and its acting strange.  Brass is not working,
> and organ only working when selected with the brass. go figure.  Organ
> justs humms when selected alone.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> -Allen
>  www.darkaether.net
>




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Thu May  4 01:17:50 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 01:17:50 +0200
Subject: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
In-Reply-To: <009001bfb566$43cf1640$0100a8c0@homenet>
References: <20000503181629.17510.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20000503231523B.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<009001bfb566$43cf1640$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <20000504011750L.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "tomg" <efm3 at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:15:25 -0700

> I know it's hard to keep up and EFM files seem to be
> everywhere. 
> 
> This is Adrian's mirror of the original EFM site. 
> > > > 1) Tomg's projects 
> > http://www.aladan.net/efm/
> 
> I moved everything to xavax last year. This is my current active site.
> http://www.xavax.com/efm/
> 
> There is a gc_efm pcb projet backup. 
> http://www.geocities.com/efm_gc/
> 
> and Mike's EFM ftp..
> ftp.eadinc.com
> (BTW I can no longer update or change files here...Mike?)

Still does many people beleive that the ASM-1 homepage lives at
http://www.it.kth.se/~e93_mda etc but it is over a year ago I lost control over
that account. It is certainly well over a half a year ago that I told that it
moved. These things take time... (sigh!).

The concept of URL conservatism only works if you stick around at the same
place... URL conservatism is not even a term people seem to grasp the concept
and meaning with these days... (sigh!).

The web is just a bloody mess... (sigh!).

So, time to hit the bed.

Cheers,
Magnus




From drtempus at home.com  Thu May  4 02:04:26 2000
From: drtempus at home.com (DrTempus)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:04:26 -0400
Subject: ARP Quartet schematic
References: <9f.4d423f1.2641d856@aol.com> <391091DE.84DD5FDC@home.com> <001901bfb554$a689eb00$582067d1@philip>
Message-ID: <3910BE8A.97C38815@home.com>

Thanks for the ideas, I'll look closer. Not too much inside, as far as
components.
Nice to see all chips in sockets.

- Allen

|||| Philip |||| wrote:
> 
> I had one with similar problems. I found a few broken connects on those
> brittle ribbon connectors and also cleaned the contacts
> Philip
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DrTempus <drtempus at home.com>
> Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 5:53 PM
> Subject: ARP Quartet schematic
> 
> > Can anyone point me to an online copy of the ARP Quartet schematic?
> >
> > Just picked up a Quartet and its acting strange.  Brass is not working,
> > and organ only working when selected with the brass. go figure.  Organ
> > justs humms when selected alone.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > -Allen
> >  www.darkaether.net
> >



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu May  4 03:15:25 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:15:25 -0700
Subject: I am new-- How 'bout some links?
References: <20000503181629.17510.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com> <20000503231523B.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <009001bfb566$43cf1640$0100a8c0@homenet>

I know it's hard to keep up and EFM files seem to be
everywhere. 

This is Adrian's mirror of the original EFM site. 
> > > 1) Tomg's projects 
> http://www.aladan.net/efm/

I moved everything to xavax last year. This is my current active site.
http://www.xavax.com/efm/

There is a gc_efm pcb projet backup. 
http://www.geocities.com/efm_gc/

and Mike's EFM ftp..
ftp.eadinc.com
(BTW I can no longer update or change files here...Mike?)

Tom








From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu May  4 03:24:29 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 03:24:29 +0200
Subject: Enclosures
References: <391164D0.D29013C1@zoo.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <009f01bfb567$7ed96aa0$0400a8c0@Theo>

There are various solution.
a) It's not uncommon to buy a 19" enclosure without front pannel.
    Check Monacor, not sure if they sell for prived use.
b) There are alu. profiles and 1.5mm alu pannels to make enclosures,
    gives good looking enclosure.
c) The same as abouve but this time with standard L profiles,
    saves a few buck's and sure look that way.
    (You can even use wood pannels in this case)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Rob Rickner <rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu>
To: synth-diy new <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 1:53 PM
Subject: Enclosures


> Does anyone know where to get a metal box, 5 rack spaces high, 17 or
> eighteen inches wide and around 7-10 inches deep to put a project in?  I
> have the 5space rack panel, it just needs a back end.
> Rob
> 
> 
> 




From patchell at teletrac.com  Thu May  4 03:30:21 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 18:30:21 -0700
Subject: Enclosures
References: <391164D0.D29013C1@zoo.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <3910D2AD.18760A4A@silcom.com>

    Jameco sells rack mount enclosures.  Part number 132863 is a 5U
enclousure that is 13.5 inches deap.  However, this does come with a front
panel.  Listed price is $79.95.  http://www.jameco.com

    Now if you are a masachist, and like to spend money, you can goto:

http://www.grizzly.com/fcgi-bin/lookup.fcgi/products/lookup.cfg?q=sub_category&kw=Sheet%20Metal

    And pick from a fine selection of metal working tools.

    -Jim "fellow masichist" Patchell

Rob Rickner wrote:

> Does anyone know where to get a metal box, 5 rack spaces high, 17 or
> eighteen inches wide and around 7-10 inches deep to put a project in?  I
> have the 5space rack panel, it just needs a back end.
> Rob

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu May  4 04:35:29 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 22:35:29 -0400
Subject: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
References: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEDLCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk> <3910A47E.A4B57690@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3910E1F1.B1B2EA81@prodigy.net>

I would recommend a NOT on the frequency counter. If your scope has an
accurate
timebase its easy to get a SWAG (sweeping wild-ass guess) at frequency using
the formula F = 1 / Period. If you have a modern digital scope, the cursors
will do a "right on"
for you. You (the human) can do a MUCH better job of interpreting the period
of a complex waveform with a scope than a frequency counter can do...

I WOULD recommend a good Chromatic Digital Tuner... such as models by Korg
etc.
The reason you want "frequency" anyway is to tune oscillators. These tuners
have a precision of a couple of cents... better than MOST people can hear
(which is WHY people use them....).  They are usually crystal controlled and
can tell you not only that a note is "440.000 Hz, but that it is an "A".
Get a unit with a wide range... the cheap guitar tuners are not good for
keyboards.  I paid about $70 brand new, years ago. $50 ought to do it.

It is way too hard to get the precision you need with a frequency counter.
Before the "Tuner" I used a scope and a known signal generator, and a method
called "Lissajous Figures" which uses an X and Y input to the scope. You
count on the signal generator
to be stable... and your eyes go BUGGY trying to interpret the scope
display.

but Jim is right on...YOU DO NEED A SCOPE !!!

H^) harry

Jim Patchell wrote:

>     A scope is probably manditory.  You do not need much of a scope.  I
> have a real cheap 20MHz scope, and that will do just fine.  You may also
> be able to find a nice used scope (Tektronix 465B is a good one to shoot
> for, if you can afford it).
>
>     The scope and a good 4 1/2 digit DVM are probably the two most
> import pieces of equipment you will need.  Also consider a frequency
> counter, a signal generator, bench top power supply.....
>
>     I am sure there are other things as well.
>
>     -Jim
>
> Martin Johansen wrote:
>
> > Thanx alot to all
> >
> > I belive that i have most the tools. I am a electrician
> > But do i need a oscilloscope?




From eh at mad.scientist.com  Thu May  4 05:16:12 2000
From: eh at mad.scientist.com (Eirikur Hallgrimsson)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:16:12 -0400
Subject: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
In-Reply-To: <3910E1F1.B1B2EA81@prodigy.net>
References: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEDLCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk> <3910A47E.A4B57690@silcom.com> <3910E1F1.B1B2EA81@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <00050323201100.23233@sal>

I think you really need a scope.  You can debug a lot of a synth with
just a signal-tracing probe and listening, but VCOs and waveshapers
really require a scope.  I used a 5 Mhz Heathkit, which didn't work
quite right.  Someday I'll buy a decent scope.

Scope features that you want: Triggered sweep.  Don't get one without
it.  Dual trace would be good, especially for looking at synch and
modulations.

Eirikur



From ka4hjh at gte.net  Thu May  4 05:24:58 2000
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:24:58 -0400
Subject: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
In-Reply-To: <3910E1F1.B1B2EA81@prodigy.net>
References: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEDLCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>
 <3910A47E.A4B57690@silcom.com> <3910E1F1.B1B2EA81@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <p04310100b5369c839bcd@[63.25.40.91]>

>I would recommend a NOT on the frequency counter. If your scope has an
>accurate
>timebase its easy to get a SWAG (sweeping wild-ass guess) at frequency using
>the formula F = 1 / Period. If you have a modern digital scope, the cursors
>will do a "right on"
>for you. You (the human) can do a MUCH better job of interpreting the period
>of a complex waveform with a scope than a frequency counter can do...

Most frequency counters don't do very far down into the audio 
frequency range anyway, which doesn't make them very useful for 
audio. Higher frequencies is another matter.

Of course it doesn't really matter if you can get one for <$5 at a 
Boy Scout sale like I did (lots of SWAG at that sale--got a 
neurologist's hammer for a buck).


>I WOULD recommend a good Chromatic Digital Tuner... such as models by Korg
>etc.

Got one of those, too. Paid full price, but it was worth it. Like 
Harry says, make sure you get a *chromatic* tuner, not a simple 
guitar tuner--they have a limited freq range.





-- 
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"



From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu May  4 06:24:41 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 06:24:41 +0200
Subject: Enclosures again
References: <391164D0.D29013C1@zoo.uvm.edu> <3910D2AD.18760A4A@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <001501bfb580$aafcd180$0400a8c0@Theo>


----- Original Message -----
From: patchell <patchell at teletrac.com>
To: Rob Rickner <rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu>
Cc: synth-diy new <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>; <patchell at silcom.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 3:30 AM
Subject: Re: Enclosures


>     Jameco sells rack mount enclosures.  Part number 132863 is a 5U
> enclousure that is 13.5 inches deap.  However, this does come with a front
> panel.  Listed price is $79.95.  http://www.jameco.com
>
>     Now if you are a masachist, and like to spend money, you can goto:
>
>
http://www.grizzly.com/fcgi-bin/lookup.fcgi/products/lookup.cfg?q=sub_catego
ry&kw=Sheet%20Metal
>
>     And pick from a fine selection of metal working tools.
>
>     -Jim "fellow masichist" Patchell
>

I've made a tool to fold 20 inch wide metal sheet (alu1.5 mm, steel 1.0 mm
max.) from some wood, 1m cv pipe, hinges and some small stuf.
Works fine if you don't do series.
Costs about $20, commercial tools for 10 inch wide cost about $200.

You can cut alu scheets in about the same way as glass.
Scratch deep with a stainly knive, than fold 2 or 3 times to and fro.
Smooth the edges with some waterproof paper and your set.

Maybe this is usefull for some one.
If annyone is intrested in a drawing of the sheet folder let me know,
I can post a drawing of it but have to make that first.

Cheers Theo







From jhaible at debitel.net  Thu May  4 08:00:13 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:00:13 +0200
Subject: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
References: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEDLCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk><3910A47E.A4B57690@silcom.com> <3910E1F1.B1B2EA81@prodigy.net> <p04310100b5369c839bcd@[63.25.40.91]>
Message-ID: <000701bfb5ec$115ed480$0739363e@jhaible>

> Most frequency counters don't do very far down into the audio
> frequency range anyway, which doesn't make them very useful for
> audio. Higher frequencies is another matter.

Funny enough (I could hardly believe it myself) the internal frequency
counter of my unexpensive Gold Star multimeter is good for tuning
VCOs thruout the whole audio range, with an error of only a few Hz.
The fine tuning can then easily be done by ear, using an Organ with
divide down technology and adjusting the VCO for zero beating.

Works perfectly for me.

JH.





From rico303 at wanadoo.dk  Thu May  4 09:12:54 2000
From: rico303 at wanadoo.dk (Martin Johansen)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:12:54 +0200
Subject: protel99se_full_trial_version
Message-ID: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPIEDOCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>

I just get a trial v. protel99se, but is zip password on. Do someone have
the password




From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu May  4 09:26:28 2000
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:26:28 +0200
Subject: AW: more pictures
Message-ID: <E61C254C1CE5D311B5950000F8CB39FF1E1298@dumbo.kapsch.co.at>

Hallo!

>And third, havent Magnus told you that you
>"shall not" use Ne5532 in a vocoder, since BJ
>"made that mistake" many years ago, Jurgen? :-)
>They "oscillate" like hell!!! :-)

I recognized that the NE5532 only oscillate when the output sees no load.
When you add a load resistor to ground everthing works fine...

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: http://come.to/ullrich    or the full link
                   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
                   Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   .oooO           KAPSCH AG / ECCN                    Vienna / Austria
   (   )   Oooo.            Traffic Control and Transmission Technology
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/




From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Thu May  4 10:30:14 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:30:14 +0200 
Subject: more pictures
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01DF7AE3@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>

	>>And third, havent Magnus told you that you
	>>"shall not" use Ne5532 in a vocoder, since BJ
	>>"made that mistake" many years ago, Jurgen? :-)
	>>They "oscillate" like hell!!! :-)
	>
	>I recognized that the NE5532 only oscillate when the output sees no
load.
	>When you add a load resistor to ground everthing works fine...

The NE5532 is a good affordable audio opamp - sort of "standard" even ?
It's true that it's more sensitive to oscillation / decoupling than a LF353
of TL072. I can tell, because I've used sockets for that whole bank of
whatever-it-might-be, and put in some fifty of these BiFET amps at first.
Even though their data sheets ask for individual decoupling of each IC,
the whole board would work with a couple of 10u tantal and another couple
of 100n ceramic. Not so the 5532. I put them in one by one, and checked for
oscillations after each one. Turned out that I needed approximately one
couple
of ceramic caps for every four 5532's to keep them quiet. Then they work
like
a charm. Less noisy than the affordable BiFET amps, especially with the low
impedance external components I chose. And low noise was an issue in that
particular circuit. The main drawback of using the 5532's is a higher supply

current. The board draws 500mA @ +/-15V.

JH.




From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu May  4 10:38:00 2000
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:38:00 +0200
Subject: AW: more pictures
Message-ID: <E61C254C1CE5D311B5950000F8CB39FF1E12A0@dumbo.kapsch.co.at>

>Less noisy than the affordable BiFET amps, especially with the low
>impedance external components I chose. And low noise was an issue in that
>particular circuit. The main drawback of using the 5532's is a higher supply

You are right!
You remind me of an AKG filter design in one of their studio delays.
It is a 10th order antialiasing filter with 20kHz filter frequency.
The little PCB has only very little caps on the supply. Without putting 10uF C's 
near to the supply pins of the little filter module the filter resonates like hell.

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: http://come.to/ullrich    or the full link
                   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
                   Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   .oooO           KAPSCH AG / ECCN                    Vienna / Austria
   (   )   Oooo.            Traffic Control and Transmission Technology
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/




From rico303 at wanadoo.dk  Thu May  4 11:05:36 2000
From: rico303 at wanadoo.dk (Martin Johansen)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:05:36 +0200
Subject: paia fatman PCB
Message-ID: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPGEDPCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>

Do someone have a file with paia fatman PCB

Martin



From thelab at sprint.ca  Thu May  4 11:46:35 2000
From: thelab at sprint.ca (|||| Philip ||||)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 06:46:35 -0300
Subject: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
Message-ID: <005501bfb5ad$a3ada8a0$ac1f67d1@philip>


 Many of the better multimeters now read frequency as well as capacitance,
 resistance, "beep" for checking continuity and all of the other V-A
 measurements. It may be wise to invest in one of these.
 
 
 btw I just got a new analog 40MHz scope for $140 :)
 
 Happy Scoper
 Philip
 
 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: KA4HJH <ka4hjh at gte.net>
> 
> > >I would recommend a NOT on the frequency counter. If your scope has an
> > >accurate
> > >timebase its easy to get a SWAG (sweeping wild-ass guess) at frequency
> using
> > >the formula F = 1 / Period. If you have a modern digital scope, the
> cursors
> > >will do a "right on"
> > >for you. You (the human) can do a MUCH better job of interpreting the
> period
> > >of a complex waveform with a scope than a frequency counter can do...
> >
> > Most frequency counters don't do very far down into the audio
> > frequency range anyway, which doesn't make them very useful for
> > audio. Higher frequencies is another matter.
> >
> > Of course it doesn't really matter if you can get one for <$5 at a
> > Boy Scout sale like I did (lots of SWAG at that sale--got a
> > neurologist's hammer for a buck).
> >
> >
> > >I WOULD recommend a good Chromatic Digital Tuner... such as models by
> Korg
> > >etc.
> >
> > Got one of those, too. Paid full price, but it was worth it. Like
> > Harry says, make sure you get a *chromatic* tuner, not a simple
> > guitar tuner--they have a limited freq range.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> > "The Mac Doctor"
> >
> 




From emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk  Thu May  4 11:56:17 2000
From: emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk (Emmanuel AMADIO)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 10:56:17 +0100
Subject: New in the list
References: <200004281349.PAA10541@node12b53.a2000.nl>
Message-ID: <39114941.8FBEAAED@postimpressions.co.uk>

I have a JX10 I want to mod.
The filter is a State Variable filter according to the Roland Service Manual.
but it seems it is usable only in lp mode (not a problem).
the filter seems to be set as a 2 poles filter whereas in the JX8P wich use the same VCF chip it seems to be a 3 poles
filter.
Any idea anyone ?

Thanks, Emmanuel



From chordman at flash.net  Thu May  4 10:10:39 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 10:10:39
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
Message-ID: <200005041717.MAA25639@ogopogo.flash.net>

Can't say I've seen a 3 input exclusive OR gate.  What's
the logic map gonna look like?

"Theo" <t.hogers at home.nl> wrote:
>What about a 4017 and some 3 input exor gates.
>(diodes may work as well)
>
>Cheers Theo

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From czech at Micronas.Com  Thu May  4 12:24:02 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:24:02 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: more pictures
Message-ID: <200005041024.MAA28868@ikarus.intermetall.de>


:::oscillations after each one. Turned out that I needed approximately one
:::couple
:::of ceramic caps for every four 5532's to keep them quiet. Then they work
:::like
:::a charm. Less noisy than the affordable BiFET amps, especially with the low

Just two unnecessary and not helpful thoughts: (;->)

1.: AD manufactures a rival, it is explicitly mentioned for audio use
    and replacement of 5534/5532, but I have forgotten the device
    number. It was also in some catalogue, Farnel or RS.
    At that time it seemed affordable and the current consumption
    was also less, about 0.5 if I remember right.
    The noise specs were even better then 5534/32.
    Less noise and less heat. Sounded good, then.
    
2.: The 5533/34 has considerable higher bandwidth (compared to TL071), 
    higher bias current
    and higher drive capability. If you look at such an op amp in a
    zero order model (just a resistive device), the internal resistance
    goes down when using said types. This means more cross talk
    to the supplies. OTOH supply rejection is not improved, could
    be even worse for the frequencies of interest due to large geometry
    transistors. All in all this makes these devices susceptible
    to oscillations due to "dirty" wiring, impedance etc.
    I think this is always the case if low noise performance is forced
    by larger bias currents/large geometry.
    
And I forgot:

3.: The TL0x1 family has a member TL051 (since long). It is claimed
    to have larger bandwidth and lower noise then TL071 or TL081.
    At least this is what I think from my head.
    Well, I think these things are only variations of some predecessor
    design, bias currents and geometries adjusted.
    I have never seen anyone using it. 
    
Do we have some diy time lag, use only components if they are 20+ years ? 

;->>   ;->>   ;->>   ;->>   ;->>

    
m.c.




From rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu  Thu May  4 13:53:52 2000
From: rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu (Rob Rickner)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 07:53:52 -0400
Subject: Enclosures
Message-ID: <391164D0.D29013C1@zoo.uvm.edu>

Does anyone know where to get a metal box, 5 rack spaces high, 17 or
eighteen inches wide and around 7-10 inches deep to put a project in?  I
have the 5space rack panel, it just needs a back end.
Rob





From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Thu May  4 13:53:54 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:53:54 EDT
Subject: Sub-Discrete Silicon DIY
Message-ID: <66.346b0f8.2642bed2@aol.com>

Hey Diy'ers,

If you want to see some SERIOUS diy, take a quick look at these pictures:
<A HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist1-w.gif">
http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist1-w.gif</A>
<A HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist2-w.gif">http://www
.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist2-w.gif</A>
<A HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist3-w.gif">http://www
.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist3-w.gif</A>
<A HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist4-w.gif">http://www
.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist4-w.gif</A>
<A HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/whisk-w.gif">http://www.
azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/whisk-w.gif</A>




From emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk  Thu May  4 15:58:27 2000
From: emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk (Emmanuel AMADIO)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 14:58:27 +0100
Subject: Korg DSS1
Message-ID: <39118203.448D7FC9@postimpressions.co.uk>

Hi !
Does anyone have the schematics for this beast ?
Any mods I could do ???



From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Thu May  4 16:18:18 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 16:18:18 +0200 
Subject: more pictures
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01DF7F9E@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>



>    
	> Do we have some diy time lag, use only components if they are 20+
years ? 

I'm completely with you in all points.

As for using something like the NE5532 nevertheless, it's just that it's so 
cheap nowadays. I wonder what that AD replacement costs, for instance.
And whether it's still available in another 20 years.

JH.




From BonoVox9 at aol.com  Thu May  4 17:46:11 2000
From: BonoVox9 at aol.com (BonoVox9 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:46:11 EDT
Subject: paia fatman PCB
Message-ID: <7a.4c9ed13.2642f543@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/4/00 4:11:00 AM Central Daylight Time, 
rico303 at wanadoo.dk writes:

<< Do someone have a file with paia fatman PCB >>
you can find it on their web page at http://www.paia.com/fatman.htm



From mirwin1 at istar.ca  Thu May  4 17:59:53 2000
From: mirwin1 at istar.ca (Mike I.)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:59:53 -0400
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <39119E79.509B@istar.ca>

Finally got a dual-trace scope. That done, one of the first things to 
look at was the outputs of the MN3102 clock chips in two analog delay 
units. The first unit had an MN3102 driving an MN3207 1024-stage NMOS 
BBD, the second unit had a MN3102 driving an MN3205 4096-stage NMOS BBD. 
 Both units showed leading-edge and trailing-edge windows (about 250 
nanoseconds) where the clock lines were simultaneously low. This 250 nS 
window time stayed constant as the frequency was swept from 12 KHz to 
200 KHz. A 9 volt power supply was used. Rise and fall times were about 
30 - 50 nS. The MN3205 capacitance (2800 pF) slowed the clock rise and 
fall times, but the full voltage swing was still there. The MN3102 
datasheet has a block diagram which indicates that the chip contains an 
oscillator, divide by two circuit, waveshaper, output buffers, and bias 
generator, but does not say much about the waveshaping. The accompanying 
data sheets for the BBD chips indicate that they should be driven with a 
biphase clock where the overlap between the two waveforms ("crossover" 
on the data sheet) occurs at zero volts to a maximum of 0.3 * (clock 
high voltage). (True non-overlapping clocks would have a waveform 
crossover at zero volts) . Next, took a look at the outputs of a CD4013B 
driving an SAD1024 and saw the overlap occurring at half the supply 
voltage, as expected. So, IF it is desirable that a real non-overlapping 
clock be used, the MN3102 (and probably also the MN3101) are an easy way 
to do it. An earlier message in this thread suggested that very brief 
overlap might be better than no overlap in maximizing BBD performance. 
Mike I.



From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu May  4 18:02:30 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 18:02:30 +0200
Subject: Enclosures again
References: <000001bfb5d2$d6c1fbe0$0400a8c0@dan>
Message-ID: <005501bfb5e2$26ea7840$0400a8c0@Theo>

Don't have a scanner at home,
will post the drawing to the list on monday or tuesday.

Cheers Theo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dan Gendreau <gendreau at rochester.rr.com>
To: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: Enclosures again


> >If annyone is intrested in a drawing of the sheet folder let me know,
> >I can post a drawing of it but have to make that first.
> >Cheers Theo
> 
> you piqued my interest...
> 
> -Dan G.
> 
> 
> 




From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu May  4 19:01:35 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 19:01:35 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <39119E79.509B@istar.ca>
Message-ID: <008e01bfb5ea$67f753a0$0400a8c0@Theo>

What about a 4017 and some 3 input exor gates.
(diodes may work as well)

Cheers Theo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mike I. <mirwin1 at istar.ca>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?


> Finally got a dual-trace scope. That done, one of the first things to 
> look at was the outputs of the MN3102 clock chips in two analog delay 
> units. The first unit had an MN3102 driving an MN3207 1024-stage NMOS 
> BBD, the second unit had a MN3102 driving an MN3205 4096-stage NMOS BBD. 
>  Both units showed leading-edge and trailing-edge windows (about 250 
> nanoseconds) where the clock lines were simultaneously low. This 250 nS 
> window time stayed constant as the frequency was swept from 12 KHz to 
> 200 KHz. A 9 volt power supply was used. Rise and fall times were about 
> 30 - 50 nS. The MN3205 capacitance (2800 pF) slowed the clock rise and 
> fall times, but the full voltage swing was still there. The MN3102 
> datasheet has a block diagram which indicates that the chip contains an 
> oscillator, divide by two circuit, waveshaper, output buffers, and bias 
> generator, but does not say much about the waveshaping. The accompanying 
> data sheets for the BBD chips indicate that they should be driven with a 
> biphase clock where the overlap between the two waveforms ("crossover" 
> on the data sheet) occurs at zero volts to a maximum of 0.3 * (clock 
> high voltage). (True non-overlapping clocks would have a waveform 
> crossover at zero volts) . Next, took a look at the outputs of a CD4013B 
> driving an SAD1024 and saw the overlap occurring at half the supply 
> voltage, as expected. So, IF it is desirable that a real non-overlapping 
> clock be used, the MN3102 (and probably also the MN3101) are an easy way 
> to do it. An earlier message in this thread suggested that very brief 
> overlap might be better than no overlap in maximizing BBD performance. 
> Mike I.




From synthdiy at mail.com  Thu May  4 19:16:44 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:16:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
Message-ID: <383775142.957460604753.JavaMail.root@web307-mc.mail.com>

I got a scope on ebay!  It's a big 200 Mhz Tektronix with 4 traces.  $275
delivered guaranteed working with manuals but no probes.  It's old (manual
printed 1980) but I imagine it was VERY expensive in it's day. Don't buy one
from ebay unless it's guaranteed to work.

- Paul

------Original Message------
From: "|||| Philip ||||" <thelab at sprint.ca>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: May 4, 2000 9:46:35 AM GMT
Subject: Re: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ



Many of the better multimeters now read frequency as well as capacitance,
resistance, "beep" for checking continuity and all of the other V-A
measurements. It may be wise to invest in one of these.


btw I just got a new analog 40MHz scope for $140 :)

Happy Scoper
Philip


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: KA4HJH <ka4hjh at gte.net>
>
> > >I would recommend a NOT on the frequency counter. If your scope has an
> > >accurate
> > >timebase its easy to get a SWAG (sweeping wild-ass guess) at frequency
> using
> > >the formula F = 1 / Period. If you have a modern digital scope, the
> cursors
> > >will do a "right on"
> > >for you. You (the human) can do a MUCH better job of interpreting the
> period
> > >of a complex waveform with a scope than a frequency counter can do...
> >
> > Most frequency counters don't do very far down into the audio
> > frequency range anyway, which doesn't make them very useful for
> > audio. Higher frequencies is another matter.
> >
> > Of course it doesn't really matter if you can get one for <$5 at a
> > Boy Scout sale like I did (lots of SWAG at that sale--got a
> > neurologist's hammer for a buck).
> >
> >
> > >I WOULD recommend a good Chromatic Digital Tuner... such as models by
> Korg
> > >etc.
> >
> > Got one of those, too. Paid full price, but it was worth it. Like
> > Harry says, make sure you get a *chromatic* tuner, not a simple
> > guitar tuner--they have a limited freq range.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> > "The Mac Doctor"
> >
>

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From jhaible at debitel.net  Thu May  4 19:21:00 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 19:21:00 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <39119E79.509B@istar.ca>
Message-ID: <000601bfb5f9$f46f9220$1a39363e@jhaible>

> An earlier message in this thread suggested that very brief
> overlap might be better than no overlap in maximizing BBD performance.

Must have missed this message - who said that, and what would be the reasons
for this ?

JH.





From gendreau at rochester.rr.com  Thu May  4 20:15:48 2000
From: gendreau at rochester.rr.com (Dan Gendreau)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 14:15:48 -0400
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
In-Reply-To: <200005041717.MAA25639@ogopogo.flash.net>
Message-ID: <000301bfb5f4$c5c31f50$0400a8c0@dan>

XOR works for any number of inputs, just like AND and OR. IE. You can build
a 3 input AND gate by simply canscading 2 2-input AND gates, same thing with
OR and XOR.

It works like a this:
X = A XOR B XOR C

A B C  X
0 0 0  0
0 0 1  1
0 1 0  1
0 1 1  0
1 0 0  1
1 0 1  0
1 1 0  0
1 1 1  1

-Dan G.




From dougf at flashpnt.com  Thu May  4 20:33:40 2000
From: dougf at flashpnt.com (Doug Ferrell)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:33:40 -0700
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
In-Reply-To: <008e01bfb5ea$67f753a0$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <000401bfb5f7$45659ce0$ad3ca8c0@dougf.flashpnt.com>

Ah, the magic of XOR...  I'm not seeing the 3-input XOR solution.  I can see
a 3-gate fix (2 AND and 1 XOR) after the counter:

Let q and q' be the complementary outputs of the counter.

The non-overlapping (on the positive side) outputs, Q and Q', are derived as
follows:

Q = q AND (q XOR q')
Q' = q' AND (q XOR q')


Wait...I think I see where Theo's going now.  By using several output taps
from the counter it should be easy to remove the overlap with some simple
logic.  My solution produces a fixed and small gap while the multi-tap one
will produce a gap which dependent on the clock frequency driving the
counter.  Interesting.  A 4024 would allow smaller gaps to be achieved.

Doug

p.s.  Am I the only one here with a deep fascination with XOR and it's uses?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl]On Behalf Of Theo
> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 10:02 AM
> To: Mike I.; synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: Re: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
>
>
> What about a 4017 and some 3 input exor gates.
> (diodes may work as well)
>
> Cheers Theo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike I. <mirwin1 at istar.ca>
> To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 5:59 PM
> Subject: Re: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
>
>
> > Finally got a dual-trace scope. That done, one of the first
> things to
> > look at was the outputs of the MN3102 clock chips in two
> analog delay
> > units. The first unit had an MN3102 driving an MN3207
> 1024-stage NMOS
> > BBD, the second unit had a MN3102 driving an MN3205
> 4096-stage NMOS BBD.
> >  Both units showed leading-edge and trailing-edge windows
> (about 250
> > nanoseconds) where the clock lines were simultaneously low.
> This 250 nS
> > window time stayed constant as the frequency was swept from
> 12 KHz to
> > 200 KHz. A 9 volt power supply was used. Rise and fall
> times were about
> > 30 - 50 nS. The MN3205 capacitance (2800 pF) slowed the
> clock rise and
> > fall times, but the full voltage swing was still there. The MN3102
> > datasheet has a block diagram which indicates that the chip
> contains an
> > oscillator, divide by two circuit, waveshaper, output
> buffers, and bias
> > generator, but does not say much about the waveshaping. The
> accompanying
> > data sheets for the BBD chips indicate that they should be
> driven with a
> > biphase clock where the overlap between the two waveforms
> ("crossover"
> > on the data sheet) occurs at zero volts to a maximum of 0.3
> * (clock
> > high voltage). (True non-overlapping clocks would have a waveform
> > crossover at zero volts) . Next, took a look at the outputs
> of a CD4013B
> > driving an SAD1024 and saw the overlap occurring at half the supply
> > voltage, as expected. So, IF it is desirable that a real
> non-overlapping
> > clock be used, the MN3102 (and probably also the MN3101)
> are an easy way
> > to do it. An earlier message in this thread suggested that
> very brief
> > overlap might be better than no overlap in maximizing BBD
> performance.
> > Mike I.
>




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Thu May  4 21:12:52 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 21:12:52 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
In-Reply-To: <200005041717.MAA25639@ogopogo.flash.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000504211252.00f937c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>


Hi all!

That would be the 3-bit parity function (i.e. two cascaded XORs.) 
Output is 1, when the number of 1's at the input is odd, as with a 
two gate XOR. 
Don't know if they're available in MSI, though, and I don't see why 
I should need them here. The 4017 could be set to divide by 4, counting 
thru steps 0..3, steps 1 and 3 are the clock lines. If you want higher 
pulse/pause ratio set it to divide by 10 (free running), and use outputs 
1-4 and 6-9 for the two phase clock.  Of course a higher frequency is 
needed. ORs may help here to sum several lines together! Diodes would be 
crap, since they can't sink current (discharge the capacitive load).

Bye,
 Ren?


At 10:10 04.05.00, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>Can't say I've seen a 3 input exclusive OR gate.  What's
>the logic map gonna look like?
>
>"Theo" <t.hogers at home.nl> wrote:
>>What about a 4017 and some 3 input exor gates.
>>(diodes may work as well)
>>
>>Cheers Theo
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst
>-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
>-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!
>
>
>

transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Thu May  4 21:22:50 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 20:22:50 +0100
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <000401bfb5f7$45659ce0$ad3ca8c0@dougf.flashpnt.com>
Message-ID: <000e01bfb60b$ff1c3f40$467c883e@default>

The only problem I can see in using a 4017 or similar is that the
deadtime of the two clocks is frequency dependant. You can do the whole
thing with two sets of a CR differentiator and an x-or gate, this will
remove the first part of any rising edge. The x-or gate is fed by the
clock and the differentiated (spiked) version of the clock. The amount
of time stolen off the front end is dependant on the CR values. A diode
to remove the negative spike is useful to protect the logic IC.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm







From edusilva at bahianet.com.br  Thu May  4 21:45:03 2000
From: edusilva at bahianet.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 16:45:03 -0300
Subject: MXR/DOD envelope filters
Message-ID: <3911D33F.AFA194AD@bahianet.com.br>

Hi

I need the schematics for these two effects (MXR envelope filter and DOD
FX25). I've searched for them all over the net, but seems I'm out of
luck. Could some kind soul send me please, a copy or at least a link?

Thanx

Edu Silva
ES2 Audio




.



From rico303 at wanadoo.dk  Thu May  4 23:47:21 2000
From: rico303 at wanadoo.dk (Martin Johansen)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 23:47:21 +0200
Subject: I start with a Filter
Message-ID: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPCEEECAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>

Now i have find a easy thing to build

I find a  HP/BP/LP VCF -Voltage Controlled filter 2e, on
http://www.geocities.com/efm_gc/content.html

But i can not find out to connect the knobs and jacks.
On the PCB board there are some small circle with one word ind, and i thing
i that to connect the knobs and jack

Martin




From rmcdonald at viewtech.com  Fri May  5 00:08:44 2000
From: rmcdonald at viewtech.com (Rory McDonald)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:08:44 -0700 
Subject: Oscilloscopes
Message-ID: <8C4902F406C7D211B92900A0C9834A23B18B05@vtmsgsvr.viewtech.com>

I also picked up an oscilloscope on ebay, but am not sure if I will keep it.
It is a rackmount version of a Tektronix 7603, with 7b80 timebase and two
7a16a input modules.
Got it for $150 US.  It is a MONSTER- I didnt realize it was so bulky.
The one thing I really dont like is it has a very loud fan.  I might try to
replace the fan
with something more modern.  Anyone out there have comment on if this scope
will do for basic
synth calibration/kit building work?
I might get rid of it and find something newer/smaller.  I originally liked
it cause I could
mount it in a rack easily.  Also, can someone recommend what kind of probes
I should use.
This is my first scope, if you dont count the REALLY old monster I used in
High School basic electronics class.
Thanks
Rory Mc Donald

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Wilkinson [mailto:synthdiy at mail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 10:17 AM
To: |||| Philip ||||; synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Subject: Re: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ


I got a scope on ebay!  It's a big 200 Mhz Tektronix with 4 traces.  $275
delivered guaranteed working with manuals but no probes.  It's old (manual
printed 1980) but I imagine it was VERY expensive in it's day. Don't buy one
from ebay unless it's guaranteed to work.

- Paul

------Original Message------
From: "|||| Philip ||||" <thelab at sprint.ca>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: May 4, 2000 9:46:35 AM GMT
Subject: Re: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ



Many of the better multimeters now read frequency as well as capacitance,
resistance, "beep" for checking continuity and all of the other V-A
measurements. It may be wise to invest in one of these.


btw I just got a new analog 40MHz scope for $140 :)

Happy Scoper
Philip


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: KA4HJH <ka4hjh at gte.net>
>
> > >I would recommend a NOT on the frequency counter. If your scope has an
> > >accurate
> > >timebase its easy to get a SWAG (sweeping wild-ass guess) at frequency
> using
> > >the formula F = 1 / Period. If you have a modern digital scope, the
> cursors
> > >will do a "right on"
> > >for you. You (the human) can do a MUCH better job of interpreting the
> period
> > >of a complex waveform with a scope than a frequency counter can do...
> >
> > Most frequency counters don't do very far down into the audio
> > frequency range anyway, which doesn't make them very useful for
> > audio. Higher frequencies is another matter.
> >
> > Of course it doesn't really matter if you can get one for <$5 at a
> > Boy Scout sale like I did (lots of SWAG at that sale--got a
> > neurologist's hammer for a buck).
> >
> >
> > >I WOULD recommend a good Chromatic Digital Tuner... such as models by
> Korg
> > >etc.
> >
> > Got one of those, too. Paid full price, but it was worth it. Like
> > Harry says, make sure you get a *chromatic* tuner, not a simple
> > guitar tuner--they have a limited freq range.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> > "The Mac Doctor"
> >
>

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup



From gendreau at rochester.rr.com  Fri May  5 01:01:33 2000
From: gendreau at rochester.rr.com (Dan Gendreau)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 19:01:33 -0400
Subject: Excellent site for beginners
Message-ID: <000001bfb61c$b0beff70$0400a8c0@dan>

I just ran across an excellent site for electronics beginners.

Check out:
http://webhome.idirect.com/~jadams/electronics/index.html

They have tutorials on the basics up thru things like 555 Timer circuits.
They dont go as far as opamps and filters, but Beginners will probably learn
a lot from it.

-Dan G.




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Fri May  5 01:30:08 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 01:30:08 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
In-Reply-To: <000601bfb5f9$f46f9220$1a39363e@jhaible>
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <39119E79.509B@istar.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000505013008.00f8d8c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 19:21 04.05.00 +0200, jhaible wrote:
>> An earlier message in this thread suggested that very brief
>> overlap might be better than no overlap in maximizing BBD performance.
>
>Must have missed this message - who said that, and what would be the reasons
>for this ?
>
>JH.

I think it refers to my message. I was a bit fuzzy on the term
non-overlapping, didn't make clear when I was talking of the
dead-time-non-overlapping clock, and when not. Sorry.

Once again: 

I said that a dead time between the clocks might have actually the opposite
effect on feedthru performance. IMHO/untried of course.

I think the mechanism, how the spikes at the output (=differenciated clock
signal) are generated doesn't have to do with overlapping of the clock
phases. 

Lets look for the differenciating cap. I suspect its the gate capacitance
of the output transistors, in series with the last two bucket caps. 
Its the only capacitive path I see. Where else could the differenciation
take place?!

If all transistors/caps were equal, both clocks change state
simultaneously, and the 0-1 and 1-0 transients are symmetrical, 
all would cancel. In a real device that is not the case of course. 
At least the manufacturer included two outputs, which allows to use 
a pot to trim this to a minimum. In tendency we have the sum of a 
pos and a neg spike.

Now when we have a gap between the two transitions of the clock signals,
the spikes are generated at two different time points. They can't cancel out. 

Now that overlap, what does it do? 
My feeling is that overlap must be minimized because otherwise the buckets
can leak into each other. This would attenuate the signal which would not
help to improve the SNR either. 

My approach would be a totally different one: I'd sample the output with a
good/fast S&H in the middle of the clock pulse. I.e. for a 10uS clock
period I'd take a sample at 2.5-3.5 and 7.5-8.5uS. Then the spike has
already decayed down, the result should be a cleaner signal. Of course this
could then be combined with a dead-time clock, ensuring minimum attenuation
of the signal.

Bye,
 Ren?





transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From mirwin1 at istar.ca  Fri May  5 01:46:27 2000
From: mirwin1 at istar.ca (Mike I.)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 19:46:27 -0400
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
	 <39119E79.509B@istar.ca> <3.0.5.32.20000505013008.00f8d8c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <39120BD3.2C04@istar.ca>

Thanks for elaborating on the post from last week Rene! I was curious 
about how the Panasonic BBD clocks behaved, and finally was able to look 
at them with a scope, seeing that they are indeed non-overlapping. My 
interpretation of your original post was that if an overlapping clock is 
used, make the overlap time as short as possible to minimize leakage 
between adjacent cells. Since the two clock phases are  ideally mirror 
images of each other this would cancel the capacitive clock feedthrough 
at the outputs. This would require a very fast, symmetrical, 
low-impedance driver circuit. Sampling in the middle of the pulse is an 
interesting idea - resembles what is done in asynchronous serial data 
links. Mike I.



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri May  5 01:48:02 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 16:48:02 -0700
Subject: mini CAM orders
Message-ID: <000701bfb623$35fdcf80$0100a8c0@homenet>

The prices are in... I haven't worked up parts-kit prices because
I didn't expect this until next week..oh well..I'll try to get the online
stuff up tonight. I guess I can take orders anytime now that we have
prices, so if you don't want to wait to see the support files. Send
a reply to this mail stating what you want and what you expect to
pay at the top of the note. I'll add the shipping & insurance in with 
my conformation.

If you need them, I have tempcos 2 for $5.00.

BassAce - size 4" X 7.5" - schematic will be online

- pcboard and PIC - $40.00 
- pcboard only - $30.00
- BassAce PIC only - $15.00
- EFM special - pcb, pic and tc - $35.00 ( previous pcb customers only)

The BassAce can run on Trevor's RX-303 code. If you can burn your
own PIC and modify the code for MOD, all you need is the board.
It will work without modifying the code but you loose a function or
two.

RX-CV - size 3" X 4" - schematic will be online

- pcboard and PIC - $30.00 
- pcboard only - $18.00
- MadMouse PIC only - $15.00

The RX-CV can run on Trevor's RX-303 code. If you can burn your
own PIC and modify the code for MOD/PB, all you need is the board.
It will work without modifying the code but you loose a function or
two.

VC-R-ADSR - size 3" X 4" - schematic will be online
- pcboard only - $14.00

VCF2f  & VCA - size 3" X 4" - schematic will be online 
- pcboard only - $14.00

Did I mention that I separated the VCA from the RES loop so that
it could be used as a final VCA?

VCF12a - size 3" X 4" - zip-file schematic w/order
- pcboard only - $14.00

VCO4e - size 3" X 4" - zip-file schematic w/order
- pcboard only - $14.00













From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri May  5 03:02:08 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 03:02:08 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de><39119E79.509B@istar.ca> <3.0.5.32.20000505013008.00f8d8c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <001b01bfb62d$89c2ece0$0400a8c0@Theo>

Looks like a good idea, gona check it out,
Clock will be uP generated so timing is not the problem.
Will take a while though.

Regards Theo.

> My approach would be a totally different one: I'd sample the output with a
> good/fast S&H in the middle of the clock pulse. I.e. for a 10uS clock
> period I'd take a sample at 2.5-3.5 and 7.5-8.5uS. Then the spike has
> already decayed down, the result should be a cleaner signal. Of course
this
> could then be combined with a dead-time clock, ensuring minimum
attenuation
> of the signal.
>
> Bye,
>  Ren?
>





From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri May  5 03:58:45 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:58:45 +1000
Subject: RFI & modules
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000505015845.00df7f64@popa.melbpc.org.au>

It's fairly simple to make a tiny RF 'sniffer' probe to look for RF 
being emitted from ckts.. Is it possible (or useful) to make a little 
modulated RF injector probe & find where a ckt seems to be picking up?

paul perry (not a RF person)




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri May  5 04:43:16 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 22:43:16 -0400
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <000401bfb5f7$45659ce0$ad3ca8c0@dougf.flashpnt.com> <000e01bfb60b$ff1c3f40$467c883e@default>
Message-ID: <39123543.3278869F@prodigy.net>

You can also scrap the differentiator, and use several cascaded inverters
to get the
propogation delay... If they were in the same chip they should match pretty
well.

H^)   (but Mom....  BBD still suck!)

Tony Allgood wrote:

> The only problem I can see in using a 4017 or similar is that the
> deadtime of the two clocks is frequency dependant. You can do the whole
> thing with two sets of a CR differentiator and an x-or gate, this will
> remove the first part of any rising edge. The x-or gate is fed by the
> clock and the differentiated (spiked) version of the clock. The amount
> of time stolen off the front end is dependant on the CR values. A diode
> to remove the negative spike is useful to protect the logic IC.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK
>
> Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack
>
> http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri May  5 04:48:53 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 22:48:53 -0400
Subject: Oscilloscopes
References: <8C4902F406C7D211B92900A0C9834A23B18B05@vtmsgsvr.viewtech.com>
Message-ID: <39123695.179547D3@prodigy.net>

I got a cheap probe set from ProbeMaster (search the web think its probemaster
or probemasters.com ...) It had 3 probes, a 1x... a 10x... and a switchable
1x/10x. So you have a pair of 1x or 10x probes...

I always use 10x probes. The loading of a 1x probe is just way too much for most
sensitive DIY circuits, and the capacitance will be a bite-in-the- at ss also.
Most modern
scopes have enough input gain to make up the loss.  It svcks when the scope
probe stops
your circuit from working....

OTOH it also svcks when the circuit ONLY works with the scope connected...

H^) harry

Rory McDonald wrote:

> I also picked up an oscilloscope on ebay, but am not sure if I will keep it.
> It is a rackmount version of a Tektronix 7603, with 7b80 timebase and two
> 7a16a input modules.
> Got it for $150 US.  It is a MONSTER- I didnt realize it was so bulky.
> The one thing I really dont like is it has a very loud fan.  I might try to
> replace the fan
> with something more modern.  Anyone out there have comment on if this scope
> will do for basic
> synth calibration/kit building work?
> I might get rid of it and find something newer/smaller.  I originally liked
> it cause I could
> mount it in a rack easily.  Also, can someone recommend what kind of probes
> I should use.
> This is my first scope, if you dont count the REALLY old monster I used in
> High School basic electronics class.
> Thanks
> Rory Mc Donald
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Wilkinson [mailto:synthdiy at mail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 10:17 AM
> To: |||| Philip ||||; synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: Re: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
>
> I got a scope on ebay!  It's a big 200 Mhz Tektronix with 4 traces.  $275
> delivered guaranteed working with manuals but no probes.  It's old (manual
> printed 1980) but I imagine it was VERY expensive in it's day. Don't buy one
> from ebay unless it's guaranteed to work.
>
> - Paul
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: "|||| Philip ||||" <thelab at sprint.ca>
> To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: May 4, 2000 9:46:35 AM GMT
> Subject: Re: SV:Re:I am new<>ToolZ
>
> Many of the better multimeters now read frequency as well as capacitance,
> resistance, "beep" for checking continuity and all of the other V-A
> measurements. It may be wise to invest in one of these.
>
> btw I just got a new analog 40MHz scope for $140 :)
>
> Happy Scoper
> Philip
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: KA4HJH <ka4hjh at gte.net>
> >
> > > >I would recommend a NOT on the frequency counter. If your scope has an
> > > >accurate
> > > >timebase its easy to get a SWAG (sweeping wild-ass guess) at frequency
> > using
> > > >the formula F = 1 / Period. If you have a modern digital scope, the
> > cursors
> > > >will do a "right on"
> > > >for you. You (the human) can do a MUCH better job of interpreting the
> > period
> > > >of a complex waveform with a scope than a frequency counter can do...
> > >
> > > Most frequency counters don't do very far down into the audio
> > > frequency range anyway, which doesn't make them very useful for
> > > audio. Higher frequencies is another matter.
> > >
> > > Of course it doesn't really matter if you can get one for <$5 at a
> > > Boy Scout sale like I did (lots of SWAG at that sale--got a
> > > neurologist's hammer for a buck).
> > >
> > >
> > > >I WOULD recommend a good Chromatic Digital Tuner... such as models by
> > Korg
> > > >etc.
> > >
> > > Got one of those, too. Paid full price, but it was worth it. Like
> > > Harry says, make sure you get a *chromatic* tuner, not a simple
> > > guitar tuner--they have a limited freq range.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> > > "The Mac Doctor"
> > >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From thescum at surfree.com  Fri May  5 05:40:24 2000
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 23:40:24 -0400
Subject: Oscilloscopes
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000505034024.009b7f88@smtp.surfree.com>

>I got a cheap probe set from ProbeMaster (search the web think its probemaster
>or probemasters.com ...) It had 3 probes, a 1x... a 10x... and a switchable
>1x/10x. So you have a pair of 1x or 10x probes...

<SNIP>

>OTOH it also svcks when the circuit ONLY works with the scope connected...

That what you do with the extra one from the set of 3!

Just build it into the module :>

Byron




From synthdiy at mail.com  Fri May  5 08:28:32 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 02:28:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ASM-1 comes to life
Message-ID: <384894135.957508112745.JavaMail.root@web431-mc.mail.com>

Omigod is it nice to finally hear some peeps out of this thing.  Bummer that
we're leaving for vacation before I can put a panel on it!

Are there any good electronics shops in Lisbon?

- Paul

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From squarewave at jps.net  Fri May  5 08:46:26 2000
From: squarewave at jps.net (Debby and Gene Stopp)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 23:46:26 -0700
Subject: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
References: <iss.52ae.390e1958.794fa.1@amethyst.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <030201bfb65d$a77d8c60$60c4edd0@borg0>

I built the EN frequency shifter about ten years ago. I built it exactly as
published, with no deviations either in parts used or in circuitry (a rare
thing for me). It is truly a fantastic module. It's easy to get very drastic
"blow your mind" effects out of it. The multipliers I used were either 533's
or 633's (or something like that, I don't actually remember) which I bought
from Hamilton via phone order and personal visit to their will-call desk.
They were something like $30 apiece, and the circuit uses four of them. I'm
not sure what's available these days. Hopefully somebody can answer that one
for you.

But I can talk about the circuit - it shifts all of the harmonics in an
input signal by the same number of hertz, rather than the same interval like
a pitch shifter. This means that an input having harmonics at 440 Hz, 880
Hz, 1760 Hz, etc., with a shift oscillator frequency of 5 Hz, will produce
an output of 445 Hz, 885 Hz, 1765 Hz, etc. The resulting harmonics are no
longer integer ratio relations to each other, producing what can best be
described as a strange inharmonic sound. Of course small shift amounts have
a subtle effect and large shift amounts are more drastic. However, unlike a
ring modulator, the original sound is still fairly recognizeable yet
strangely warped. You can actually get the same effect with an FM radio with
analog tuning - I'm not sure what the mechanism at work in this case is (I
never got familiar with FM radio circuits), but it's definitely the same
effect. Radio nerds refer to it as single sideband modulation - maybe
somebody else can explain how a radio does it. The radio I use is an old
Fisher tube receiver, so I don't know if just any radio can do it. You have
to tune slightly off-station with no squelch to get the effect.

The effect is used sometimes in sci-fi movies, usually on speech to get
alien voices. It's not very common. I think I heard it once very briefly in
one of the Star Wars movies. Also an old episode of the Outer Limits from
the early 60's (the pilot episode, called "The Galaxy Being") features a
frequency-shifted alien voice quite prominently through the whole show. The
EN circuit does this perfectly.

Hey this makes me want to go fire it up again....

- Gene


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul R. Higgins" <higg0008 at tc.umn.edu>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:55 PM
Subject: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter


> Does anyone know what the current status is on the availibility of the
3280 OTA?
> My Digi-Key catalog claims that they still carry it, but people on the
list have
> said otherwise.
>
> I was also looking at the frequency shifter in the EN Builder's Guide and
I had
> a couple of questions that I knew the DIYers would have answers to.
>
> 1)  The dumb question first: what the heck does a frequency shifter do,
and what
> is it useful for?  I know it's not the same as a pitch transposer, but
that's
> all I know.
>
> 2)  Can you still get the AD533 analog multiplier used in the EN frequency
> shifter?  If not, is there a substitution available?
>
> Thanks,
> -PRH
>
> _____________________________________________
> Paul Higgins
> email: higg0008 at tc.umn.edu
> University College, University of Minnesota
> _____________________________________________
>
>





From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May  5 09:08:40 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:08:40 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Sub-Discrete Silicon DIY
Message-ID: <200005050708.JAA01662@ikarus.intermetall.de>

Hey, back to the good old times of crystals and needles?
Looks still better then the very first transistor...


m.c.

:::From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com
:::Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:53:54 EDT
:::Subject: Sub-Discrete Silicon DIY
:::To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
:::Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
:::
:::Hey Diy'ers,
:::
:::If you want to see some SERIOUS diy, take a quick look at these pictures:
:::<A HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist1-w.gif">
:::http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist1-w.gif</A>
:::<A 
HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist2-w.gif">http://www
:::.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist2-w.gif</A>
:::<A 
HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist3-w.gif">http://www
:::.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist3-w.gif</A>
:::<A 
HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist4-w.gif">http://www
:::.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/xsist4-w.gif</A>
:::<A 
HREF="http://www.azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/whisk-w.gif">http://www.
:::azstarnet.com/~pfriedr/transistor/whisk-w.gif</A>




From synthdiy at mail.com  Fri May  5 09:15:12 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 03:15:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: DOH!
Message-ID: <382314687.957510912956.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com>

WAS going great, until I smoke-tested the filter.  I plugged in the 3140's
and then turned on the board.  No smoke, but the middle 3140 got hot.  Any
idea what could cause that?  Do I have a capacitor backwards again?

I've been pretty careful with the 3140's, keeping myself grounded.  I press
a piece of tinfoil into the back of the socket while I plug them in.  Should
be enough, huh.  They didn't come in a static bag though, so I'm not sure
they were packed properly at Electronics Express.

- Paul

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FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From synthdiy at mail.com  Fri May  5 09:15:55 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 03:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to tell if a CMOS chip is toast?
Message-ID: <384006025.957510955113.JavaMail.root@web443-mc.mail.com>

Is there an easy way to tell if a CMOS chip is toast?  Or do I have to
figure it out based on the chips behavior?

- Paul

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From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May  5 10:11:49 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:11:49 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: multiplier: was Re: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
Message-ID: <200005050811.KAA01875@ikarus.intermetall.de>

This is one of my projects on the long list:

How good are the available multipliers? Noise, inter modulation,
linearity, drift, carrier feed through?

There is:

RC4200 (exp/log, expensive, and one quadrant, can be extended to 4)
MC1495 (linear inputs, why isn't this available in Europe??)
MC1496 (nonlinear input for modulator, ie. expects square modulator)
AD633  (crap, if you ask me)
diode ring (original ring modulator, with or without iron)
diy    (using dual transistors)

and then there are very expensive AD chips.

There are basically three circuit topologies: symmetrical controlled gain
cells, exp/log structures, and diode rings.  exp/log  being only one
quadrant (without circuitry tricks).  I must say that I trust more in
the gain cell thing. Most chips work that way.


I have tried the complete diy route, without dual transistors.
Excellent noise and bandwidth, but drift.

I have tried AD633 and found it too noisy.

I've bought 4200, but expect problems due to the unsymmetry of the
circuit. It is basically one quadrant.  We'll see.

The best thing would be a 1495, same topology as 633 or my diy, but
unavailable for some mysterious reason.

The diode ring suffers from distortion, noise and feed through.
Could be interesting for lofi sound experiments. I've
tried a version with audio transformers. That's pretty expensive
and you get low frequency problems as well. It is possible
to go without iron, using differential op amp schemes.
Found that in an old "Funkschau". Certainly a way to explore,
sounds really different than a clean , linear multiplier.

The 1496 is available and cheap. It seems to be used for radio.
Unfortunately the linearizing circuitry is missing, because
it is intended for square wave carriers. But, I think it is possible
to add a linearizing stage with dual transsitors. One dual as diff
amp, the other as loging diode.

m.c.




From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May  5 11:12:36 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:12:36 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: DOH!
Message-ID: <200005050912.LAA01905@ikarus.intermetall.de>

Sorry, I can't stay away from replying to that, cause fighting ESD
is part of my profession.


I don't know what tinfoil is (aluminium foil? or is it really tin?),
nevertheless, one should only use static dissipative material to prevent
ESD damage, NEVER metal.

The reason is that if you use static dissipative foam etc. you have
about 1e6 - 1e9 Ohm. This is enough to discharge safely with low currents
in a few seconds.

If you use pure metal sheets or the like (screwdriver!) you will also
have a discharge, but a very rapid one, in some 100ps or ns.  This means
very high currents, 1A -10A !. This appears when the device is charged
against the environment, which is the normal case today (your wear a wrist
strap).

In most cases the device is not killed by beeing charged to some high
potential (rember that potential is relative), it doesn't hurt if some
silicon chip is at 10000V above ground, as long as it is charged as
a whole.

But the device is killed due to internal voltages that result from the
discharge current and discharge current path (Ohm's law).

To avoid rapid discharge, the soldering iron, table matt, chair etc. should
all be connected to safe ground via resistors or via dissipative material.

(Some guys from Siemens HL (now Infineon) showed pretty lab results,
walking on carpet or just standing up from an unsafe chair could charge
a test person to more then 4kV in less then a second).

A steel table e.g. will make ESD worse, not better.

Still some people send semiconductors wrapped in aluminum foil,
or on nonconductive styro foam with a sheet of aluminum foil on it.
This means that these guys have no clue about what ESD is.
Styro foam is the worst case material, because it will charge up
rapidly due to friction. Sometimes it is really hard to get those
foam chips of your hands due to the coulomb forces.

A reasonable supplier uses only static dissipative tubes, or other kinds
of dissipative containers. You should avoid unsafe suppliers, because
it will cost you both, time and money to find out if parts are degraded
or destroyed due to unprofessional handling.

m.c.


:::Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 03:15:12 -0400 (EDT)
:::From: Paul Wilkinson <synthdiy at mail.com>
:::To: Synth synthdiy <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
:::Subject: DOH!
:::Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
:::X-Originating-IP: 63.193.120.159
:::
:::WAS going great, until I smoke-tested the filter.  I plugged in the 3140's
:::and then turned on the board.  No smoke, but the middle 3140 got hot.  Any
:::idea what could cause that?  Do I have a capacitor backwards again?
:::
:::I've been pretty careful with the 3140's, keeping myself grounded.  I press
:::a piece of tinfoil into the back of the socket while I plug them in.  Should
:::be enough, huh.  They didn't come in a static bag though, so I'm not sure
:::they were packed properly at Electronics Express.
:::
:::- Paul
:::
:::______________________________________________
:::FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
:::Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May  5 11:34:05 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:34:05 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: How to tell if a CMOS chip is toast?
Message-ID: <200005050934.LAA01913@ikarus.intermetall.de>

Again appologies,  have to answer that too: ;->

No, in general it is very hard to find all possible damage.
For us diy enthusiasts only input leakage, excess supply current
and obvious malfunction are possible to find. Ouput
damage is hard to find, because of feedback. Of course,
a fully blown output stage will be observed...

Let me say that not only CMOS chips suffer from ESD, bipolar structures
suffer as well. Todays gate oxides are pretty much perfect, they can
stand enormous E-fields for some 100ns, which is enough to survive ESD. I
see photos of destroyed chips all day, 1 out of hundred may have a gate
oxide pin hole, and these devices are all CMOS.

This is because junction breakdown will always come earlier then gate
oxide breakdown today. I don't know if this is still true for 0.1um
or even smaller technologies, but this is not our field of interest 
here.

Some tests are very easy to perform, the DUT is measuring itself.
You need no expensive test equipment, just a few circuits with sockets.

You can check for supply current. Easy. Use a voltage follower circuit,
plus input to gnd. It is no good idea to check for supply current if
the inputs are floating!

You can check for correct behaviour with noninverting or inverting
circuits. You can check for difference gain. This is a bit more
tricky. Using a 10MHz sine wave generator you can even check bandwidth
and slew rate.

You can check for input bias currents.  Basically you use a noninvertig
or inverting integrator setup with a good styro cap. The caps have to
be discharged via push buttons and some 100 Ohms resistor, then you look
at the rate the output voltage ramps up or down.  Then you can calculate
the input bias current.

As long as the chip has standard pinout, a few cheap circuits can give
a lot of information.

The op amp cookbook by Mr. Jung shows all this.

(In your special case I'd guess that it is input leakage).

Note that modern devices are quite robust. Total failure is seldom the
case, degradation is your main trouble. A zapped input stage may show
strange offsets, and drift etc. etc. Very unpleasant, because you may find out
very late, after hours of search, especially if your are hunting some kind
of drift.

Anti ESD lab equipment is a good investment. About 75 Euro will do

Table mat, wrist strap, soldering iron with ground connection,
some conductive foam plates to put circuits on and to discharge circuits
that you're going to touch. That's all you need.

m.c.

:::Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 03:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
:::From: Paul Wilkinson <synthdiy at mail.com>
:::To: Synth synthdiy <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
:::Subject: How to tell if a CMOS chip is toast?
:::Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
:::X-Originating-IP: 63.193.120.159
:::
:::Is there an easy way to tell if a CMOS chip is toast?  Or do I have to
:::figure it out based on the chips behavior?
:::
:::- Paul
:::
:::______________________________________________
:::FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
:::Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Fri May  5 12:45:50 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:45:50 +0200 
Subject: multiplier: was Re: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency
	 shifter
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01DF859B@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>


	> AD633  (crap, if you ask me)

(;->) 

Glad I didn't try it. I was sceptical after reading the specs, and decided
not to spend money on them. Only heard good things about them on the
list so far - good to hear the other side now !

	> I've bought 4200, but expect problems due to the unsymmetry of the
	> circuit. It is basically one quadrant.  We'll see.

Works fine. Be careful with the offset trimmer networks, though.
The ones in the data sheet are *right* (why do I have to stress that ?),
but some of the published ring modulator circuits use less components,
thus sacrificing stability. It's all bipolar, so you *need* to match
impedance
oft the offset trimmer dividers to the rest of the circuit.

JH. 



From emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk  Fri May  5 13:04:18 2000
From: emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk (Emmanuel AMADIO)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:04:18 +0100
Subject: How to tell if a CMOS chip is toast?
References: <200005050934.LAA01913@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <3912AAB2.B4337047@postimpressions.co.uk>

> Anti ESD lab equipment is a good investment. About 75 Euro will do
> 
> Table mat, wrist strap, soldering iron with ground connection,
> some conductive foam plates to put circuits on and to discharge circuits
> that you're going to touch. That's all you need.

First thing is probably the wrist strap, really useful, you can at least get it to the synth's ground which helps saving
some chips.



From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Fri May  5 13:06:28 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 13:06:28 +0200 
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01DF85EB@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>

	>Once again: 

Thanks for writing this again - sorry I had missed it.
I admit I have spent less thoughts on the actual mechanism of performance
degradation than you did. What you're writing about overlap causing
leakage, reducing level and therfore decreasing SNR sounds reasonable.
You're probably right about the spikes, too. 
In the end you can filter the spikes with a good filter, of course, so the
leakage would be the worse problem I guess.

	>My approach would be a totally different one: I'd sample the output
with a
	>good/fast S&H in the middle of the clock pulse.

I think I saw this somewhere. I had no idea why there was an extra S&H
stage, but now as you say it this could be th eexplanation.
Of only I knew *where* I've seen it. Crumar Performer maybe. Not sure.

I took a brief glance at the SRS-56 circuit (very brief - 30 seconds before
I went to work), and what I think I saw is this:

4 NAND gates form a HF VCO.
One half of a JK-FF to create the symmetrical clock.
Other rhalf of JK-FF connected as monoflop to create the gap.
(and a trimpot to adjust the exact gap time - fits in your theory !)
2 NAND gates to mask the symmetrical clock during the gap time.
(as suggested in TDA1022 data sheet)
Two high current drivers (complementary emitter follower, "class C
amplifier", 10 Ohm current limiting resistors at collectors.

More interesting circuit details: NE570 companders with quite some
external components to improove the 570's performance.
Discrete 6-pole filters at BBD input and output.

JH.






From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May  5 14:25:59 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 14:25:59 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: multiplier: was Re: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
Message-ID: <200005051225.OAA02320@ikarus.intermetall.de>


:::>The best thing would be a 1495, same topology as 633 or my diy, but
:::>unavailable for some mysterious reason.
:::>
:::It is 'missing' because it hasn't been manufactured for a couple of years 
now.
:::And, I personally think the AD633 is just fine ;-)

I know that most people disagree in this point.  I had only one chip,
could be that it was not typical. Let me explain: I used "Horowitz
playing Moscow" piano music CD as program input and sine wave at the
modulator input.  I found the AD633 to be very noisy (hissing), compared
with my own homebrew.

I expect NO additional audible noise with a critical recording like that
when using a multiplier intended for audio. I mean it is piano music with
fff and ppp. If the sine wave is slow, I expect amplitude modulation,
and faster I expect sidebands. But NO noise.  This methode means that the
noise is -80dB down, but still audible.  It is better then a tape deck,
for shure.  And this is too much for me and the application.


If I put in Megadeth "Tornado of Souls" instead, I'll not notice any
noise, of course not. ;_>

Less current draw and internal zener reference (zeners are known to be
noisy) in the AD 633 data sheet are additional hints that I might be right.
My discrete design also uses a zener diode reference, but it is filtered with
a 100uF electrolytic.


btw. ESD can also heavily degrade noise figures, I forgot to mention.
It is a pain in the @ss if you are doing noise figure measurements
on MOST on the wafer. Is this device still ok? Is it degraded?
Why does this curve look so funny?


m.c.





From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May  5 14:59:09 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 14:59:09 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
Message-ID: <200005051259.OAA02451@ikarus.intermetall.de>

:::I built the EN frequency shifter about ten years ago. I built it exactly as
:::published, with no deviations either in parts used or in circuitry (a rare

I have not build it.  But I may add that the (great) E.N. literature
research work on phase shift networks did one design aside (it is
mentioned, though), that is the polyphase network.

This network is passive and it was popular in the amateur radio world. (I
guess these guys go digital, today).  For our audio frequency needs we
don't need the rf transformers, 180deg phase shift can be done with
op amps.

The network has certainly the disadvantage of being expensive, because it
needs a lot of stages (each stage only 1.6 or so higher frequency). It
also has a bath tub magnitude response, which must be compensated. 

The advantage (that is claimed, I have no data so far), is low component
tolerance sensitivity, and no absolute but matching tolerance needs. Each
section has four resistors and four caps.  Ok, we can buy resistors with
1%, and on the same belt they often have actually 0.1%. This is easy
to measure. All resistors have the same value. The caps differ, but you
need only four matching caps for each stage.  No extreme matching between
stages. Caps vary with temperature, but matching caps won't vary much.
A decent multimeter has a cap measuring feature today, and even if the
absolute values are bogus matching should be ok.

And another pro: It is not E.N., so no copyright issue.
And dimensioning is straight forward, if you have a simulator.
The E.N. network is very difficult to dimension without the
given tables.

JH did once recieve a proposal of this network, I can not retrieve the
schematic today, since the schematic editor doesn't exist any longer.
Yes, Y2K!

If there is a need, I could do a copy out of the book and scan it.
If you have understood the principle, it is easy to adapt.

m.c.





From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri May  5 15:49:39 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:49:39 +0200
Subject: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
References: <iss.52ae.390e1958.794fa.1@amethyst.tc.umn.edu> <030201bfb65d$a77d8c60$60c4edd0@borg0>
Message-ID: <003301bfb698$c288e960$0400a8c0@Theo>

We used home made freq shifters at a local radio station I used to work for.
One channel was shifted up something like 25KHz, then L&R where summed and
sent over a wide band telephone line.
Later (and better) versions sent out a modulated signal over the same line.
(yes sounds odd, has to do with the fact that the station was not er..
legal )
We didn't use $30 parts.
Have to see if I can retrieve the schematic somewhere.

Basically it worked like this:
Signal is FM moduladed and than de-modulated with the "wrong" frequentie.
The diff bedween the signals is the freq shift.

Hope this helps,
Cheers Theo

----- Original Message -----
From: Debby and Gene Stopp <squarewave at jps.net>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter


> I built the EN frequency shifter about ten years ago. I built it exactly
as
> published, with no deviations either in parts used or in circuitry (a rare
> thing for me). It is truly a fantastic module. It's easy to get very
drastic
> "blow your mind" effects out of it. The multipliers I used were either
533's
> or 633's (or something like that, I don't actually remember) which I
bought
> from Hamilton via phone order and personal visit to their will-call desk.
> They were something like $30 apiece, and the circuit uses four of them.
I'm
> not sure what's available these days. Hopefully somebody can answer that
one
> for you.
>
> But I can talk about the circuit - it shifts all of the harmonics in an
> input signal by the same number of hertz, rather than the same interval
like
> a pitch shifter. This means that an input having harmonics at 440 Hz, 880
> Hz, 1760 Hz, etc., with a shift oscillator frequency of 5 Hz, will produce
> an output of 445 Hz, 885 Hz, 1765 Hz, etc. The resulting harmonics are no
> longer integer ratio relations to each other, producing what can best be
> described as a strange inharmonic sound. Of course small shift amounts
have
> a subtle effect and large shift amounts are more drastic. However, unlike
a
> ring modulator, the original sound is still fairly recognizeable yet
> strangely warped. You can actually get the same effect with an FM radio
with
> analog tuning - I'm not sure what the mechanism at work in this case is (I
> never got familiar with FM radio circuits), but it's definitely the same
> effect. Radio nerds refer to it as single sideband modulation - maybe
> somebody else can explain how a radio does it. The radio I use is an old
> Fisher tube receiver, so I don't know if just any radio can do it. You
have
> to tune slightly off-station with no squelch to get the effect.
>
> The effect is used sometimes in sci-fi movies, usually on speech to get
> alien voices. It's not very common. I think I heard it once very briefly
in
> one of the Star Wars movies. Also an old episode of the Outer Limits from
> the early 60's (the pilot episode, called "The Galaxy Being") features a
> frequency-shifted alien voice quite prominently through the whole show.
The
> EN circuit does this perfectly.
>
> Hey this makes me want to go fire it up again....
>
> - Gene
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul R. Higgins" <higg0008 at tc.umn.edu>
> To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:55 PM
> Subject: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
>
>
> > Does anyone know what the current status is on the availibility of the
> 3280 OTA?
> > My Digi-Key catalog claims that they still carry it, but people on the
> list have
> > said otherwise.
> >
> > I was also looking at the frequency shifter in the EN Builder's Guide
and
> I had
> > a couple of questions that I knew the DIYers would have answers to.
> >
> > 1)  The dumb question first: what the heck does a frequency shifter do,
> and what
> > is it useful for?  I know it's not the same as a pitch transposer, but
> that's
> > all I know.
> >
> > 2)  Can you still get the AD533 analog multiplier used in the EN
frequency
> > shifter?  If not, is there a substitution available?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -PRH
> >
> > _____________________________________________
> > Paul Higgins
> > email: higg0008 at tc.umn.edu
> > University College, University of Minnesota
> > _____________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri May  5 16:06:49 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 07:06:49 -0700
Subject: mini-cam pdfs
Message-ID: <010601bfb69b$2df0b8c0$0100a8c0@homenet>

Here's a start...

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pcb/bassace-v1.pdf

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pcb/rxcv-v1.pdf

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pcb/vc-radsr-v1.pdf

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pcb/vcf2f-v1.pdf

Tom





From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Fri May  5 16:18:42 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:18:42 +0200 
Subject: EN frequency shifter
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01DF88CA@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>

	> And another pro: It is not E.N., so no copyright issue.
	> And dimensioning is straight forward, if you have a simulator.
	> The E.N. network is very difficult to dimension without the
	> given tables.

Just for the record, I have the (corrected) EN table values worked into
my drawing at http://www.synthfool.com/diy/hjfs6_df.gif and
http://www.synthfool.com/diy/hjfselec.html

(I included a reference to the EN Preferred Circuits Collection,
and I didn't receive any complaints so far.)

JH.




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri May  5 17:37:44 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 01:37:44 +1000
Subject: multiplier: was Re: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN
  frequency shifter
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000505153744.00e0ed54@popa.melbpc.org.au>


Here's a 4200 multiplier ckt:
http://www.omninet.co.jp/workshop/analog/RC4200.GIF

paul perry melb australia

BTW if they really are that cheap, we should be using them
in voltage controlled filters instead of CA3080s!




From emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk  Fri May  5 17:43:22 2000
From: emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk (Emmanuel AMADIO)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 16:43:22 +0100
Subject: New in the list
References: <20000504211238.78688.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3912EC1A.720AADF@postimpressions.co.uk>

>I have a JX10 I want to mod.
>The filter is a State Variable filter according to the Roland Service 
>Manual.
>but it seems it is usable only in lp mode (not a problem).
>the filter seems to be set as a 2 poles filter whereas in the JX8P wich use 
>the same VCF chip it seems to be a 3 poles
>filter.

The thing which I can't understand is why the circuit has different capacitors values.
Does it mean that they gave the filter response a slope like this ? :


--------- 
         ^^^^^
              ^^^^^
                   \
                    \


> The block diagram for the chip is like this :
>             --------- 
> fc  ------->|       |---------------------------
>             |       |           |              |
> res ------->|       |-----------|------------- |
>             ---------         | |            | |         
>                               | |            | |         
>                             -------        -------
>                             |     |        |     |
> in ------------------------>| vcf |------->| vcf |----> out
>                             |     |        |     |
>                             -------        -------
>                              |   |          |   |
>                              -   -          -   -
>                           C1 -   - C2    C3 -   - C4
>                              |   |          |   | 
>                ---------------------------------------- GND
>                       
> C1=C2=10 nF 
> C3=C4=220 pF

The other strange thing is that for the JX8P  C1=C2=C3=10 nF and C4=220pF

Regards Emmanuel



From n0nspaz at loa.com  Fri May  5 17:51:45 2000
From: n0nspaz at loa.com (mark scetta)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:51:45 -0400
Subject: RFI & modules
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000505114744.00bbabe0@mail.loa.com>

	ok i am tired of hearing "ROXANNE .... you don't have to put on the red 
light...." through my modules. i replaced all audio signal paths with 
belden shielded cable, tying the ground at the jacks but not at the board. 
not helping.

BTW my MOTM modules are fine, it's my DIY stuff that's ailing me....

advice?

mark




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri May  5 18:34:36 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 02:34:36 +1000
Subject: Chaos ckt from Japan
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000505163436.00e23b98@popa.melbpc.org.au>


And, any comments on this?
http://www.omninet.co.jp/workshop/essay/CHAOS.GIF
paul perry melb australia





From grichter at execpc.com  Fri May  5 19:32:31 2000
From: grichter at execpc.com (Grant Richter)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:32:31 -0500
Subject: multiplier: was Re: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency
	 shifter
Message-ID: <200005051733.MAA09043@mailgw02.execpc.com>

I recently designed and I/Q detector that ran at 300Khz
for the front end of a SPARC DSP. I had to evaluate all
the available analog multipliers for cost vs. performance.
Here's my 2 cents worth.

> RC4200 (exp/log, expensive, and one quadrant, can be extended to 4)

What I finally used for the project due to it's low cost and
excellent DC temperature stability. Linearity is 0.1% (best of all types)
and cost in 1000 pcs. was $0.63 (63 cents). DC drift is
0.005% per Deg C. Manufactured by Fairchild/Raytheon and
second sourced by JRC. You simply bias the one quadrant into
four to handle +/- 10 volt inputs on X and Y. Though
this one takes the most outside support circuitry.
The application engineer from Analog Devices told me
"they really made a coup there, nobody can beat that chip
on price/performance".

> MC1495 (linear inputs, why isn't this available in Europe??)

Very old school, high distortion. PAIA 47xx module used this.

> MC1496 (nonlinear input for modulator, ie. expects square modulator)
> AD633  (crap, if you ask me)

My second choice with 1% distortions, but very few support components.
Jameco has them for $6.25 each. Expensive, thats why I picked the
RC4200.

> I have tried AD633 and found it too noisy.

Use the full 20V p-p input range.

>
> I've bought 4200, but expect problems due to the unsymmetry of the
> circuit. It is basically one quadrant.  We'll see.

All the sum of logs circuits have the same problem.
That includes National LF0094 and Burr-Brown LOG100 (?)
general purpose math chips. All use the sum/difference of logs
trick to do math which limits you to one quadrant.





From grichter at execpc.com  Fri May  5 19:46:31 2000
From: grichter at execpc.com (Grant Richter)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:46:31 -0500
Subject: New in the list
Message-ID: <200005051747.MAA11052@mailgw02.execpc.com>

You will see this in unbuffered filter designs.
A good example is the lowpass filter from the
ARP 2600 envelope follower. I modeled it in SPICE
and it gives a nice sharp 24 Db/Oct rolloff with no
buffering between stages.

Further stages load the previous stage and reduce Q
so the impedance of the stages is modified to end
up with a nice sharp corner at the end. You typically
see the resistor values go up and the cap values
go down for stages later in the chain.

----------
>From: Emmanuel AMADIO <emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk>
>To: DIY Mailing list <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: Re: New in the list
>Date: Fri, May 5, 2000, 10:43 AM
>

>>I have a JX10 I want to mod.
>>The filter is a State Variable filter according to the Roland Service
>>Manual.
>>but it seems it is usable only in lp mode (not a problem).
>>the filter seems to be set as a 2 poles filter whereas in the JX8P wich use
>>the same VCF chip it seems to be a 3 poles
>>filter.
>
> The thing which I can't understand is why the circuit has different
> capacitors values.
> Does it mean that they gave the filter response a slope like this ? :
>
>
> ---------
>          ^^^^^
>               ^^^^^
>                    \
>                     \
>
>
>> The block diagram for the chip is like this :
>>             ---------
>> fc  ------->|       |---------------------------
>>             |       |           |              |
>> res ------->|       |-----------|------------- |
>>             ---------         | |            | |
>>                               | |            | |
>>                             -------        -------
>>                             |     |        |     |
>> in ------------------------>| vcf |------->| vcf |----> out
>>                             |     |        |     |
>>                             -------        -------
>>                              |   |          |   |
>>                              -   -          -   -
>>                           C1 -   - C2    C3 -   - C4
>>                              |   |          |   |
>>                ---------------------------------------- GND
>>
>> C1=C2=10 nF
>> C3=C4=220 pF
>
> The other strange thing is that for the JX8P  C1=C2=C3=10 nF and C4=220pF
>
> Regards Emmanuel
> 



From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Fri May  5 20:10:03 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:10:03 -0700 
Subject: RFI & modules
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18AA@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Mark,

Hmmm ... the MOTM stuff is immune, and your homebrews are rectifying...  Sounds
like maybe a ground problem or maybe a high impedance node. First off, how close
is that radio station you're getting? Do have any other items in the house
picking it up?  What we do in these cases is grab some ferrites and place them
on suspect lines. The clamp-on ferrites are easy to work with. The other trick
is to poke around with your finger looking for the spot where the RFI gets
louder. This will sometimes tell you where the offending node is. You can also
try small caps(~100pf) to ground on sensitive nodes.

Let me know how it goes.


Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: mark scetta [mailto:n0nspaz at loa.com]
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 8:52 AM
To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Subject: RFI & modules


	ok i am tired of hearing "ROXANNE .... you don't have to put on the red 
light...." through my modules. i replaced all audio signal paths with 
belden shielded cable, tying the ground at the jacks but not at the board. 
not helping.

BTW my MOTM modules are fine, it's my DIY stuff that's ailing me....

advice?

mark



From djohnson at mdsi.bc.ca  Fri May  5 21:03:46 2000
From: djohnson at mdsi.bc.ca (Donald Johnson)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:03:46 -0700
Subject: multipliers (was Re: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequemcy shifter)
Message-ID: <200005051809.UAA06953@node12b53.a2000.nl>

Martin Czech wrote:
> How good are the available multipliers? Noise, inter modulation,
> linearity, drift, carrier feed through?
> 
> There is:
> 
> RC4200 (exp/log, expensive, and one quadrant, can be extended to 4)
> MC1495 (linear inputs, why isn't this available in Europe??)
> MC1496 (nonlinear input for modulator, ie. expects square modulator)
> AD633  (crap, if you ask me)
> diode ring (original ring modulator, with or without iron)
> diy    (using dual transistors)
> 
> and then there are very expensive AD chips.

 There is also the MC1494. From the datasheet it seems to be an
 improved MC1495. TApparently the Bode/Moog Frequency Shifter used
 these. I got a number of them quite cheap from Future/Active.
 Does anyone have any comments or experience with these?

 thanks,
 don.


  .. Donald Johnson               | MDSI = Mobile Data Solutions ..
 ... Software Development Manager | 10271 Shellbridge Way        ...
.... (604) 207-6481 [voice]       | Richmond, B.C.               ....
.... (604) 207-6060 [fascimile]   | Canada                       ....
 ... (604) 207-6000 [reception]   | V6X 2W8                      ...
  .. djohnson at mdsi.bc.ca          | http://www.mdsi-advantex.com ..



From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Fri May  5 21:10:56 2000
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry L Klein)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:10:56 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: RFI & modules
Message-ID: <ISSMTP.1.3(4).20000505121057.4293950713F@corp.wdc.com>

Try using ferrite beads on input and supply lines.  There are
surface-mount parts for boards and donut-shaped ones for TO-8 can leads
etc.  Sometimes you can find a bunch of these on old floppy or hard
drives.
Experiment with the types of opamps you use for input voltage/signal
buffering.  Some rectify RF and others don't.  Try just using a CB
transmitter close to the circuit in question and listening to it with a
known "no-issues" headphone amp or something to debug.  I think the Bi-Fet
types were pretty good at cancelling it... but its been too many years
ago....

If you find a way to make that song go away altogether let me know.... 
God, I hate that.

Barry

----------
From: 	mark scetta[SMTP:n0nspaz at loa.com]
Sent: 	Friday, May 05, 2000 8:51 AM
To: 	synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Subject: 	RFI & modules

	ok i am tired of hearing "ROXANNE .... you don't have to put on the red 
light...." through my modules. i replaced all audio signal paths with 
belden shielded cable, tying the ground at the jacks but not at the board.

not helping.

BTW my MOTM modules are fine, it's my DIY stuff that's ailing me....

advice?

mark






From bnillson at hotmail.com  Fri May  5 22:23:02 2000
From: bnillson at hotmail.com (Bjorn Julin)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 20:23:02 GMT
Subject: Im the rude and baad dude! He he ,ho ho, Cliff eat bananas!
Message-ID: <20000505202302.57792.qmail@hotmail.com>

At the big mess Cliff showed some new
stacked female 1/4 and 3,5 mm PCB and
wire mounted connectors.Both mono and stereo
connectors wersions was manufactured.

They said that they are available
from suppliers today!!
Nice for your modular.

BJ
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Fri May  5 23:22:39 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 14:22:39 -0700 
Subject: Im the rude and baad dude! He he ,ho ho, Cliff eat bananas!
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18AC@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Always like to hear about stacked females!!   :-)


Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Bjorn Julin [mailto:bnillson at hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 1:23 PM
To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Subject: Im the rude and baad dude! He he ,ho ho, Cliff eat bananas!


At the big mess Cliff showed some new
stacked female 1/4 and 3,5 mm PCB and
wire mounted connectors.Both mono and stereo
connectors wersions was manufactured.

They said that they are available
from suppliers today!!
Nice for your modular.

BJ
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



From donaldj at infomatch.com  Sat May  6 00:56:37 2000
From: donaldj at infomatch.com (Donald Johnson)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:56:37 -0700
Subject: Elektor "Voice Shifter", Re: EN frequency shifter
Message-ID: <200005052252.PAA25085@matrix.infomatch.com>

Haible Juergen wrote:
>  > And another pro: It is not E.N., so no copyright issue.
>  > And dimensioning is straight forward, if you have a simulator.
>  > The E.N. network is very difficult to dimension without the
>  > given tables.
> 
> Just for the record, I have the (corrected) EN table values worked into my
> drawing at http://www.synthfool.com/diy/hjfs6_df.gif and
> http://www.synthfool.com/diy/hjfselec.html
> 
> (I included a reference to the EN Preferred Circuits Collection,
> and I didn't receive any complaints so far.)
> 
> JH.

 The April 2000 issue of Elektor Electronics (UK edition)
 has a 3 page article on a "voice shifter" (pages 48-50).
 It looks like a SSB and filter method. Says it has only
 a 6 Khz bandwisth and a +/- 500 Hz shift. But the components
 used are a pair of NE612 double balanced modulators and a
 pair of ceramic filter/resonators. Maybe its cheap enough?
 don.

( (        don johnson        ) )
 \ \                         / /
) ) ) donaldj at infomatch.com ( ( (
 / /                        \ \
( (    dla kwe Ensign Core   ) )



From BonoVox9 at aol.com  Sat May  6 01:26:42 2000
From: BonoVox9 at aol.com (BonoVox9 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 19:26:42 EDT
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
Message-ID: <aa.4b0a4e4.2644b2b2@aol.com>

I was at a garage sale yesterday and I found a sequential circuits Pro-One 
synthesizer, in the box for five dollars. I did not know much about it, but I 
bought it anyway. I took it home and it seems to be working perfectly, can 
anyone tell me anything about this synth? The volume knob is a bit crackly, 
and i was wondering if De-Oxit would fix that, or not. Could anyone tell me?

I would really appreciate any information about this synth. It didn't come 
with a manual, and I do not understand how to operate the modulation section.


thank you
Jason



From patchell at teletrac.com  Sat May  6 02:29:51 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (patchell)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 17:29:51 -0700
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
References: <aa.4b0a4e4.2644b2b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3913677F.42AD6526@silcom.com>

    Where do you live?  You obviously have much better garage sales where you
live as opposed to where I am. :^)

    -Jim


BonoVox9 at aol.com wrote:

> I was at a garage sale yesterday and I found a sequential circuits Pro-One
> synthesizer, in the box for five dollars. I did not know much about it, but I
> bought it anyway. I took it home and it seems to be working perfectly, can
> anyone tell me anything about this synth? The volume knob is a bit crackly,
> and i was wondering if De-Oxit would fix that, or not. Could anyone tell me?
>
> I would really appreciate any information about this synth. It didn't come
> with a manual, and I do not understand how to operate the modulation section.
>
> thank you
> Jason

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From BonoVox9 at aol.com  Sat May  6 02:40:58 2000
From: BonoVox9 at aol.com (BonoVox9 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 20:40:58 EDT
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
Message-ID: <1e.4dc5fd7.2644c41a@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/5/00 7:31:04 PM Central Daylight Time, 
patchell at teletrac.com writes:

<<     Where do you live?  You obviously have much better garage sales where 
you
 live as opposed to where I am. :^) >>
i live in illinois



From t.hogers at home.nl  Sat May  6 03:16:18 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 03:16:18 +0200
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
References: <aa.4b0a4e4.2644b2b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000901bfb6f8$aeed5fc0$0400a8c0@Theo>

lucky bastard, move it a while, better no de-oxid.
cheers theo
----- Original Message -----
From: <BonoVox9 at aol.com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 1:26 AM
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One


> I was at a garage sale yesterday and I found a sequential circuits Pro-One
> synthesizer, in the box for five dollars. I did not know much about it,
but I
> bought it anyway. I took it home and it seems to be working perfectly, can
> anyone tell me anything about this synth? The volume knob is a bit
crackly,
> and i was wondering if De-Oxit would fix that, or not. Could anyone tell
me?
>
> I would really appreciate any information about this synth. It didn't come
> with a manual, and I do not understand how to operate the modulation
section.
>
>
> thank you
> Jason
>




From jonathon_parker at hotmail.com  Sat May  6 03:35:33 2000
From: jonathon_parker at hotmail.com (Jon Parker)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 19:35:33 -0600
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
References: <1e.4dc5fd7.2644c41a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20000506013008.74141.qmail@hotmail.com>

You got yourself a great deal.  A friend of mine sold one last year for
$550.

Jon Parker
Jazz Pianist
Denver CO USA
--

----- Original Message -----
From: <BonoVox9 at aol.com>
To: <patchell at teletrac.com>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Sequential Circuits Pro-One


> In a message dated 5/5/00 7:31:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
> patchell at teletrac.com writes:
>
> <<     Where do you live?  You obviously have much better garage sales
where
> you
>  live as opposed to where I am. :^) >>
> i live in illinois
>



From psnow at magma.ca  Sat May  6 04:48:32 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 22:48:32 -0400
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
References: <aa.4b0a4e4.2644b2b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <39138800.FC5ED6CB@magma.ca>

There was a Pro One in rough shape for sale in the local used musical
instrument store a month ago.  Keyboard was warped and it was missing
the wooden end cheeks.  Went for CDN$700.
You got a heck of a deal!

Peter

BonoVox9 at aol.com wrote:
> 
> I was at a garage sale yesterday and I found a sequential circuits Pro-One
> synthesizer, in the box for five dollars. I did not know much about it, but I
> bought it anyway. I took it home and it seems to be working perfectly, can
> anyone tell me anything about this synth? The volume knob is a bit crackly,
> and i was wondering if De-Oxit would fix that, or not. Could anyone tell me?
> 
> I would really appreciate any information about this synth. It didn't come
> with a manual, and I do not understand how to operate the modulation section.
> 
> thank you
> Jason



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat May  6 04:55:25 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 22:55:25 -0400
Subject: DOH!
References: <200005050912.LAA01905@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <3913899D.CFD5BD4D@prodigy.net>

The use of the aluminum foil is to keep all the pins at the same potential (in
theory anyway)
so that any static charge is coomon mode and not differential across the device.
There were early MOSFET trannys that had 4 leads, and a shorting ring that was to
be removed
after the part was in the circuit.

I agree with Martin... avoid suppliers that do not ship IC's in conductive carriers
and antistatic bags...

BTW I have never lost a CA3140 to static....  I asked our service department if
they thought that the 3140 was prone to failure and they said it was rare, except
when a
whole PCB was blown to smithereens by 480 VAC at all the current money can buy...

H^)

Martin Czech wrote:

> Sorry, I can't stay away from replying to that, cause fighting ESD
> is part of my profession.
>
> I don't know what tinfoil is (aluminium foil? or is it really tin?),
> nevertheless, one should only use static dissipative material to prevent
> ESD damage, NEVER metal.
>
> The reason is that if you use static dissipative foam etc. you have
> about 1e6 - 1e9 Ohm. This is enough to discharge safely with low currents
> in a few seconds.
>
> If you use pure metal sheets or the like (screwdriver!) you will also
> have a discharge, but a very rapid one, in some 100ps or ns.  This means
> very high currents, 1A -10A !. This appears when the device is charged
> against the environment, which is the normal case today (your wear a wrist
> strap).
>
> In most cases the device is not killed by beeing charged to some high
> potential (rember that potential is relative), it doesn't hurt if some
> silicon chip is at 10000V above ground, as long as it is charged as
> a whole.
>
> But the device is killed due to internal voltages that result from the
> discharge current and discharge current path (Ohm's law).
>
> To avoid rapid discharge, the soldering iron, table matt, chair etc. should
> all be connected to safe ground via resistors or via dissipative material.
>
> (Some guys from Siemens HL (now Infineon) showed pretty lab results,
> walking on carpet or just standing up from an unsafe chair could charge
> a test person to more then 4kV in less then a second).
>
> A steel table e.g. will make ESD worse, not better.
>
> Still some people send semiconductors wrapped in aluminum foil,
> or on nonconductive styro foam with a sheet of aluminum foil on it.
> This means that these guys have no clue about what ESD is.
> Styro foam is the worst case material, because it will charge up
> rapidly due to friction. Sometimes it is really hard to get those
> foam chips of your hands due to the coulomb forces.
>
> A reasonable supplier uses only static dissipative tubes, or other kinds
> of dissipative containers. You should avoid unsafe suppliers, because
> it will cost you both, time and money to find out if parts are degraded
> or destroyed due to unprofessional handling.
>
> m.c.
>
> :::Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 03:15:12 -0400 (EDT)
> :::From: Paul Wilkinson <synthdiy at mail.com>
> :::To: Synth synthdiy <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> :::Subject: DOH!
> :::Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> :::X-Originating-IP: 63.193.120.159
> :::
> :::WAS going great, until I smoke-tested the filter.  I plugged in the 3140's
> :::and then turned on the board.  No smoke, but the middle 3140 got hot.  Any
> :::idea what could cause that?  Do I have a capacitor backwards again?
> :::
> :::I've been pretty careful with the 3140's, keeping myself grounded.  I press
> :::a piece of tinfoil into the back of the socket while I plug them in.  Should
> :::be enough, huh.  They didn't come in a static bag though, so I'm not sure
> :::they were packed properly at Electronics Express.
> :::
> :::- Paul
> :::
> :::______________________________________________
> :::FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> :::Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From BonoVox9 at aol.com  Sat May  6 06:53:09 2000
From: BonoVox9 at aol.com (BonoVox9 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 00:53:09 EDT
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
Message-ID: <71.2e32b6b.2644ff35@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/5/00 8:30:32 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jonathon_parker at hotmail.com writes:

<< You got yourself a great deal.  A friend of mine sold one last year for
 $550.
 
 Jon Parker
 Jazz Pianist
 Denver CO USA >>

is it really a good deal? i don't know if i like the synth all that much. 
although, i'm really a beginner at using them, it just seems somewhat 
awkward.. coming from the paia fatman and going to the pro one.. i was going 
to try linking them together with the CV in/out. and connecting the pro-one 
to my roland 707 drum machine



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat May  6 07:43:32 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 07:43:32 +0200
Subject: DOH!
In-Reply-To: <3913899D.CFD5BD4D@prodigy.net>
References: <200005050912.LAA01905@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000506074332.00f96d40@mailout.uni-bonn.de>


>BTW I have never lost a CA3140 to static....  I asked our service
department if
>they thought that the 3140 was prone to failure and they said it was rare,
except
>when a
>whole PCB was blown to smithereens by 480 VAC at all the current money can
buy...

<OT>
Reminds me on the last time I lost a 3140. I had a tube oscillator circuit
hooked to the expo convertor of one of my VCO3 boards. Unfortunately one of
the boards outputs became shorted to +75V. 
mazingly the opamp driving that output and all others survived, 
while the 3140 in the full wave rectifier was killed.
</OT>

Can't remember losing a CA3140 or a 40xx to static, rather with shorts.
Might just be that I never realize, when they still perform degraded.

Bye,
 Ren? 



transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat May  6 07:47:27 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 07:47:27 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
In-Reply-To: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01DF85EB@nbgm339a.nbgm.sie
 mens.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000506074727.00f93920@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 13:06 05.05.00 +0200, Haible Juergen wrote:

>4 NAND gates form a HF VCO.
>One half of a JK-FF to create the symmetrical clock.
>Other rhalf of JK-FF connected as monoflop to create the gap.
>(and a trimpot to adjust the exact gap time - fits in your theory !)

Right, this is very interesting. Probably there is an optimum value of the
gap, where the cancellation of the spikes is maximum.

>2 NAND gates to mask the symmetrical clock during the gap time.
>(as suggested in TDA1022 data sheet)
>Two high current drivers (complementary emitter follower, "class C
>amplifier", 10 Ohm current limiting resistors at collectors.

I think one should include the drivers into the feedback of the FF, then
you insure that propagation times don't spoil your efforts. (Of course if
you mask the overlap out anyway, you can do compensate for that...) 
Thats why I favour the symmetrical astable oscillator followed by "gate
discrete" RS-FF. I think the overlap will get smaller the more drive your
outputs have. Brute force method, but why not. In this respect the 4013
(and the like) are inferior. AFAIK the CMOS-FF have less fanout than the
CMOS gates. (I'm not sure, anyone ?!)

>More interesting circuit details: NE570 companders with quite some
>external components to improove the 570's performance.
>Discrete 6-pole filters at BBD input and output.

Properly designed filters are a must, and a compander is certainly still a
good idea.

Bye,
 Ren?



transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From jc_smurf at hotmail.com  Sat May  6 07:56:29 2000
From: jc_smurf at hotmail.com (J. C.)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 00:56:29 CDT
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
Message-ID: <20000506055629.90368.qmail@hotmail.com>

If you don't like it I'll buy it from you.  I'll give you $20 for it.
That's FOUR times what you paid for!!  Deal? ;-)

J.N.


>is it really a good deal? i don't know if i like the synth all that much.
>although, i'm really a beginner at using them, it just seems somewhat
>awkward.. coming from the paia fatman and going to the pro one.. i was 
>going
>to try linking them together with the CV in/out. and connecting the pro-one
>to my roland 707 drum machine

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From blacet at metro.net  Sat May  6 09:50:56 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 07:50:56 +0000
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
References: <20000506095314.28423.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3913CEE1.49D6@metro.net>

$5! I'm sick.... :}
The keyboard on these is funky but the electronics are pretty good. Hook
it up to a MIDI controller....

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Sat May  6 11:10:44 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 10:10:44 +0100
Subject: Im the rude and baad dude! He he ,ho ho, Cliff eat bananas!
References: <20000505202302.57792.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001301bfb786$baa2df00$6f86883e@default>

Hi all,

BJ>At the big mess Cliff showed some new stacked female 1/4 and 3,5 mm
PCB and wire mounted connectors.

Yes, they do look great but I have had nothing but trouble with Cliff
plastic jacks. They were standard fitting on Soundcraft Delta desks, and
my first set of synths I made. OK for audio, perhaps. But CV is a
problem, where the smallest amount of resistance will cause tracking
drift. So I'm afraid I can't recommend them. They seem partcularly prone
to damp.

For my latest series of modules I recommend Switchcraft 112, pricey but
bloody good. And these are standard on the better Soundcraft desks. A
Moog 901 VCO I saw a while ago, appeared to have them as well.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm









From t.hogers at home.nl  Sat May  6 11:50:55 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 11:50:55 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <3.0.5.32.20000506074727.00f93920@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <001b01bfb740$9319e140$0400a8c0@Theo>

What about a inexpensive uP e.g. ATtiny15 (dil8) or a small PIC as a clock
source,
it can easely generate the non overlaping BBD clock and the SH clock.
In case of the ATtiny; Vcc + GND + three clock outputs thats 5 out of 8 pins
used.
Remaining pins can be used as digital or analog I/O,
there is a onboard 4 chanel 10bit DAC and one timer capable of PWM (100kHz)
for the analog I/O part.
If no analog I/O is needed a $2 ATtiny10 may do.

Cheers Theo




From stevenflip at hotmail.com  Sat May  6 11:53:14 2000
From: stevenflip at hotmail.com (steve jones)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 02:53:14 PDT
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
Message-ID: <20000506095314.28423.qmail@hotmail.com>

I have this clever internet thing called a "search engine", it's what  some 
people use to find information about synths etc. You could try a search for 
your "pro one" - you might even find a manual for it. You could do a search 
on daydreaming as well;)


>From: BonoVox9 at aol.com
>To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
>Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
>Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 19:26:42 EDT
>
>I was at a garage sale yesterday and I found a sequential circuits Pro-One
>synthesizer, in the box for five dollars. I did not know much about it, but 
>I
>bought it anyway. I took it home and it seems to be working perfectly, can
>anyone tell me anything about this synth? The volume knob is a bit crackly,
>and i was wondering if De-Oxit would fix that, or not. Could anyone tell 
>me?
>
>I would really appreciate any information about this synth. It didn't come
>with a manual, and I do not understand how to operate the modulation 
>section.
>
>
>thank you
>Jason

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From jeremy.boissy1 at libertysurf.fr  Sat May  6 12:34:21 2000
From: jeremy.boissy1 at libertysurf.fr (J=?ISO-8859-1?B?6XLp?=my BOISSY)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 12:34:21 +0200
Subject: maxx page
Message-ID: <200005061034.MAA46893@mailhub5.libertysurf.fr>

Hi, I'm new in the mailing list
i used to see a good page which was maxx page or something like that, and i
can't find it anymore
because i lost the adress, could u give me again please, it gave a complete
schematic of different modules whith lots of informations.....
                                        thanks



From clark at andrews.edu  Sat May  6 15:27:40 2000
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 09:27:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
In-Reply-To: <71.2e32b6b.2644ff35@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000506092505.483B-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> is it really a good deal? i don't know if i like the synth all that much. 
> although, i'm really a beginner at using them, it just seems somewhat 
> awkward.. coming from the paia fatman and going to the pro one.. i was going 
> to try linking them together with the CV in/out. and connecting the pro-one 
> to my roland 707 drum machine

   The Pro-One is probably one of the most extensive (analog) monosynths you 
can buy.  There are tons of routings which allow you to do all sorts of 
things that your fatman can't touch.  Especially the fun little sequencer!
   Have fun with it, and talk to Harry B. about his _mods_.  Cool stuff!

   Tony

------------------------------------,----------------------------------
I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
------------------------------------|  
Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
------------------------------------'----------------------------------




From psnow at magma.ca  Sat May  6 15:54:59 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 09:54:59 -0400
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
References: <71.2e32b6b.2644ff35@aol.com>
Message-ID: <39142433.5F61A13F@magma.ca>


That may not work. The CV out on the FatMan is not 1v/oct. It will
depend on what CV the ProOne expects for it's CV in. I have never owned
one and I do not know what standard it uses... 

Good luck. I mean, more good luck than you have obviously already had!!
:)

Peter

BonoVox9 at aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 5/5/00 8:30:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
> jonathon_parker at hotmail.com writes:
> 
> << You got yourself a great deal.  A friend of mine sold one last year for
>  $550.
> 
>  Jon Parker
>  Jazz Pianist
>  Denver CO USA >>
> 
> is it really a good deal? i don't know if i like the synth all that much.
> although, i'm really a beginner at using them, it just seems somewhat
> awkward.. coming from the paia fatman and going to the pro one.. i was going
> to try linking them together with the CV in/out. and connecting the pro-one
> to my roland 707 drum machine



From stevenflip at hotmail.com  Sat May  6 17:45:20 2000
From: stevenflip at hotmail.com (steve jones)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 08:45:20 PDT
Subject: free 'scopes for audio signals
Message-ID: <20000506154520.29795.qmail@hotmail.com>

It's possible to use the Scorpion plugin (for cubase VST) as a 'scope for 
audio signals - its designed for that purpose - I used it to monitor 
waveshapes while adjusting trimmers. On this page:

http://www.muzique.com/amz/free.htm

there is a software oscilloscope that works with a Soundblaster compatible 
soundcard.

Also try a search for "minituner.zip". This can help you tune your VCOs.

Steve
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From debus at cityweb.de  Sat May  6 17:52:26 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 17:52:26 +0200
Subject: ESD protection, was: DOH!
References: <200005050912.LAA01905@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <39143FBA.4238D618@cityweb.de>



Martin Czech wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I can't stay away from replying to that, cause fighting ESD
> is part of my profession.

Ups, I just finished a touch-keyboard (sort of, in the old Elektor days
this was called a "TAP" switch). The touch pad is just connected to a
40106 input with 10 Meg pullup resistor. While I was soldering the last
resistor it came to my mind that I had done absolutely nothing for ESD
protection... =:-)

Still works fine, but it's almost summer now and air humidity is quite
high, so no big danger regarding ESD...

Playing a touch keyboard is fun, BTW.

Ingo




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat May  6 21:37:54 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 15:37:54 -0400
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
References: <20000506095314.28423.qmail@hotmail.com> <3913CEE1.49D6@metro.net>
Message-ID: <39147492.D626235B@prodigy.net>

If it is an early pro-one it has the j-wire keyboard and there is no problem

with these. They might need a little dab of RTV at the flex point to improve

life.

H^) harry

John E Blacet wrote:

> $5! I'm sick.... :}
> The keyboard on these is funky but the electronics are pretty good. Hook
> it up to a MIDI controller....
>
> Regards.
> -------------------------
> John Blacet
> Blacet Research Music Electronics
> http://www.blacet.com
> -------------------------
> blacet at metro.net
> -------------------------
> Are you on our mailing list?
> http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat May  6 21:41:13 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 15:41:13 -0400
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
References: <71.2e32b6b.2644ff35@aol.com> <39142433.5F61A13F@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <39147559.F3FB8C87@prodigy.net>

ProOne is 1V per Octave.  It has the same archetecture as the Prophet V, but
only a single voice.  It is IMHO one of the best monosynths ever made.

H^)

Peter Snow wrote:

> That may not work. The CV out on the FatMan is not 1v/oct. It will
> depend on what CV the ProOne expects for it's CV in. I have never owned
> one and I do not know what standard it uses...
>
> Good luck. I mean, more good luck than you have obviously already had!!
> :)
>
> Peter
>
> BonoVox9 at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 5/5/00 8:30:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > jonathon_parker at hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > << You got yourself a great deal.  A friend of mine sold one last year for
> >  $550.
> >
> >  Jon Parker
> >  Jazz Pianist
> >  Denver CO USA >>
> >
> > is it really a good deal? i don't know if i like the synth all that much.
> > although, i'm really a beginner at using them, it just seems somewhat
> > awkward.. coming from the paia fatman and going to the pro one.. i was going
> > to try linking them together with the CV in/out. and connecting the pro-one
> > to my roland 707 drum machine




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat May  6 21:42:39 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 15:42:39 -0400
Subject: free 'scopes for audio signals
References: <20000506154520.29795.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <391475AF.DA9B407@prodigy.net>

Most soundcards do not have DC input response, something which I consider
absolutly essential for synth work, or any work for that matter...

H^)  harry

steve jones wrote:

> It's possible to use the Scorpion plugin (for cubase VST) as a 'scope for
> audio signals - its designed for that purpose - I used it to monitor
> waveshapes while adjusting trimmers. On this page:
>
> http://www.muzique.com/amz/free.htm
>
> there is a software oscilloscope that works with a Soundblaster compatible
> soundcard.
>
> Also try a search for "minituner.zip". This can help you tune your VCOs.
>
> Steve
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Sat May  6 22:07:11 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob Zero)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 15:07:11 -0500
Subject: sh101 schematics
Message-ID: <002001bfb796$ab056c60$cc312bd1@u4r0w4>

Well, I seem to have a little problem. I *think* my cat was sitting on the
dismantled sh101 I have sitting on my work table.

I need to figure how to set vr1 and vr2.

it seems that vr1 is just the voltage regulator trim, so I set that so that
I got out exactly 5v on the 5v supply.

Now, vr2 will be a little more difficult. it looks like vr2 is set to trim
the d/a converter, but what exactly would be the proper procedure for this.
I would guess that upon turning on that the output of pin 1 on IC9 should be
zero volts. Is this correct?

Rob





From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Sat May  6 22:09:34 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob Zero)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 15:09:34 -0500
Subject: sh101 schematics (philip, your schematics are down)
Message-ID: <002e01bfb797$006f44a0$cc312bd1@u4r0w4>

Just wanted to include the fact that Philip Pilgrims sh101 schematic
repository is down as of late, otherwise i would get em myself. ;)

Sorry to bother you all..

Rob





From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat May  6 22:11:30 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 22:11:30 +0200
Subject: multiplier: was Re: 3280 and AD533 availability, EN frequency shifter
References: <1.5.4.32.20000505153744.00e0ed54@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <000601bfb7b0$1d9b3020$3c38363e@jhaible>

> Here's a 4200 multiplier ckt:
> http://www.omninet.co.jp/workshop/analog/RC4200.GIF

Yes. That's one more circuit that might be less precise than the
chip could be. I don't have the data sheet in front of me, but if
memory serves the impedance of the offset trimmer network (seen
from the RC4200's view) should match the impedance of the
summing resistors. Just as with any bipolar opamp, keep the
i_offset low by matching impedance, and *then* correct the
output error by compensating the v_offset on the input. In the
circuit above, you try to compensate i_offset caused by 100R
vs. some 10kOhms with the v_offset trimmer. Not good for a
precision multiplier. Soulution: Just fit in the right value of
series resistor between the 100R's and the IC pins.
Details in the data sheet.

JH.





From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Sat May  6 22:17:09 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob Zero)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 15:17:09 -0500
Subject: sh101 schematics
References: <002001bfb796$ab056c60$cc312bd1@u4r0w4>
Message-ID: <000701bfb798$0f1e01c0$cc312bd1@u4r0w4>

Oh heck.. forget it! I was able to dl the service manual from
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive/manuals/roland/sh101/

no prob.. Philips links just dont seem to work on my pooter mo-sheen.

heh!

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Zero <cyborg_0 at iquest.net>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:07 PM
Subject: sh101 schematics


> Well, I seem to have a little problem. I *think* my cat was sitting on the
> dismantled sh101 I have sitting on my work table.
>
> I need to figure how to set vr1 and vr2.
>
> it seems that vr1 is just the voltage regulator trim, so I set that so
that
> I got out exactly 5v on the 5v supply.
>
> Now, vr2 will be a little more difficult. it looks like vr2 is set to trim
> the d/a converter, but what exactly would be the proper procedure for
this.
> I would guess that upon turning on that the output of pin 1 on IC9 should
be
> zero volts. Is this correct?
>
> Rob
>
>
>




From ka4hjh at gte.net  Sat May  6 23:22:15 2000
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 17:22:15 -0400
Subject: Chaos ckt from Japan
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20000505163436.00e23b98@popa.melbpc.org.au>
References: <1.5.4.32.20000505163436.00e23b98@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <p04310102b53a3d3acda3@[63.28.152.185]>

>And, any comments on this?
>http://www.omninet.co.jp/workshop/essay/CHAOS.GIF

Here's the entire article (in Japanese) with picture of the output. 
Looks like strange attractors, all right. Where that's translation 
page?

http://www.omninet.co.jp/workshop/essay/EL9401A.HTM


-- 
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"



From mle at nic.fi  Sun May  7 00:10:14 2000
From: mle at nic.fi (Matti E. Leino)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 01:10:14 +0300
Subject: It works! somehow...
Message-ID: <39149846.4136FACA@nic.fi>

I have finally finished my synth project. Well, it,s not quite ready
yet, there's still something wrong in it...
I call it PG-101. The name comes from its project name, Project Groove,
and 101 comes from monophonic and it's first one.
So, what's in it? Well here's the list from all modules I have out on
it:
 - Two vco4d from TomG.
 - Two lfo's, lfo2 and lfo3a from Tom's cookbook
 - vcf8d, again from Tom's cookbook. MS-20 type.
 - vca1a, surprising, again from Tom.OBX type
 - Two env2b envelope gens from Tom
 - Ring modulator. This one is from JH.
 - Sub octave gen. from Tom. How surprising....
 - d-beam modified...
 - Mixer, some kbd controls, and headphone amp. These are my own
design...
It also have to external audio inputs, so I can play whatever I want
trough filter and amplifier.
I have put all modules in 6 unit high rack enclosure, and hardwired all
modules, so no patch cables are needed. I don't know is this good idea
or not, but I think it's good for me. Front plate is made from aluminum,
and text and figures has been "painted" on it..."painted" is not the
right word actually, but I'm so tired at the moment I can't remember the
right word. But I believe you know what I mean...

So, now it's  good time to thank Tom and Jurgen and all of you. It's
nice to know if I have some problems or something, I know how I can get
help. Thank you!

I'm planning to put some pictures from it on my webpage, but I don't
have digi camera or scanner available at the moment, so it have to for a
moment.

But I also have so problems with it. CV has no effect on VCA, gain is
high all the time. I think transistors that controls the gain current
are broke. But I haven't looked it closer yet...maybe tomorrow.Or day
after tomorrow...I don't how does VCA's envgen work because of
that...Also portamento and cv-mixer doesn't work, I have one broken
opamp there...And I haven't wired ringmodulator yet.

But still, I was extatic when I first time turned it on and heard
earthquake-like bass coming from it. And after little tweeking, a nice
whistle and sweep and all. Nice...

Well, gotta go to sleep for a while, just wanted you to know...And
thanks again for all!

 - Matti


--
Matti E. Leino               email:mle at nic.fi
M?ntysalontie 2              http:www.nic.fi/~mle
28800 PORI                   gsm:+358407076540
Finland

         - lo que no mata, fortalesa -






From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun May  7 01:36:17 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 01:36:17 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <3.0.5.32.20000506074727.00f93920@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <001b01bfb740$9319e140$0400a8c0@Theo> <391454D5.2725@istar.ca>
Message-ID: <004701bfb7b3$e03d3580$0400a8c0@Theo>

> Will you be able to smoothly sweep the BBD clock  frequency of the
> microcontroller (assuming you want to do things like chorus and
> flanging)?
>
It depents on the type of processor AVRs are much faster than PICs on the
same frequentie.
A PIC will do nicely but the AVRs offer more options here.
The ATtiny15 runs on a internal 1.6MHz clock,  in praxis this will do for
about 1.2 mips.
It operates in the same speed range as a 8MHz 68000!!
The one of the timers can use a internal 25MHz clock, that should be a solid
basis for smooth sweeps.

> I wonder if it would be possible to clock the microcontroller
>  from a high-speed VCO?
>
No that won't work, there would be no way to generate the constand dead time
bedween the BBD clockpulses.

Note that the uP IS the highspeed VCO, a single 8pin chip solution.
The real advantage of the uP is that it can generate all needed timing
signals, SH and BBD clock.
You can hang poti's on the analog inputs and let the uP be the LFO, ENV
Follower,...., or feed the uP a CV signal.
The internal 10bit DAC will be fast enough for CV input applications.

>Or maybe have the microcontroller operate from a
> crystal, but have an interrupt routine which toggles the BBD clock lines
> (with suitable non-overlap time) every time the microcontroller detects
> that an external VCO has put out a new pulse? Mike
>
Hang the VCO on the exsternal interupt line, responce will be whitin 4 clock
cycles (worst case).
If you use a external high speed VCO there would be no need for analog
inputs on the uP.
A much cheaper ATtiny10 or 11 will do in this case.
These can run on a exsternal crystal, 6 or 8 MHz max. the main source of
failure may be the uP boaring it self to dead ;^)
ATtiny10 and 11 have some additional sram (128 bites or so) may be handy.

The AT90S1200 ($5, 16MHz max) may also be an option, gives 15 I/O lines but
no sram,
enough power left for a soft UART though (somehow the word MIDI crosses my
mind :)   ).
Last but not least there is the AT90S2300 ($6, 10MHz), offers sram, 15 I/O
lines and a hardware UART.

Other uP will work as well o'cause, it's just me being a risk fan.


Hope this helps.
Regards Theo





From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun May  7 01:41:58 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 01:41:58 +0200
Subject: BBDs: scan of Dynacord SRS 56 clock online
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de><39119E79.509B@istar.ca> <3.0.5.32.20000505013008.00f8d8c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <004901bfb7b4$ade62280$3c38363e@jhaible>

Before anybody starts to program a PIC (or a Pentium) to
drive a BBD line, here's how Dynacord did it:

http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/additional_schemos.html

(scroll down to the last entry)

JH.





From BonoVox9 at aol.com  Sun May  7 01:46:06 2000
From: BonoVox9 at aol.com (BonoVox9 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 19:46:06 EDT
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One
Message-ID: <a3.5a0d6f3.264608be@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/6/00 4:54:47 AM Central Daylight Time, 
stevenflip at hotmail.com writes:

<< I have this clever internet thing called a "search engine", it's what  
some 
 people use to find information about synths etc. You could try a search for 
 your "pro one" - you might even find a manual for it. You could do a search 
 on daydreaming as well;)
  >>

well, i did do a little bit of searching and i found the manual online, but, 
i have trouble understanding what it means, and all of that.i asked the list 
because i am sure that many of you know something about this model, or a 
similar model like the prophet, and could tell me something. person to 
person, you see?

but, i thank everyone for their support, it's been great.

jason.



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sun May  7 03:47:24 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 03:47:24 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
In-Reply-To: <001b01bfb740$9319e140$0400a8c0@Theo>
References: <3.0.5.32.20000506074727.00f93920@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000507034724.00e74b60@mailout.uni-bonn.de>


Interesting idea! 
Maybe use something bigger than the 8-pin varieties. Then you have enough
pins to use external clocks for the uC. I'd run the clock out of a high
speed VCO or PLL, so that I wouldn't have to use devices with ADCs. The
fact that the gap changes with clocking rate doesn't matter if one uses the
1/4 clock delayed S/H. The program would be a stupid small endless loop.

Oh, and a silly question: Can the ATtiny chips be programmed with a STK-200 ?
(Replacing discrete logic with smaller uCs is more and more appealing to me!)

Bye,
 Ren?


At 11:50 06.05.00 +0200, Theo wrote:
>What about a inexpensive uP e.g. ATtiny15 (dil8) or a small PIC as a clock
>source,
>it can easely generate the non overlaping BBD clock and the SH clock.
>In case of the ATtiny; Vcc + GND + three clock outputs thats 5 out of 8 pins
>used.
>Remaining pins can be used as digital or analog I/O,
>there is a onboard 4 chanel 10bit DAC and one timer capable of PWM (100kHz)
>for the analog I/O part.
>If no analog I/O is needed a $2 ATtiny10 may do.
>
>Cheers Theo
>
>

transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From bnillson at hotmail.com  Sun May  7 03:50:14 2000
From: bnillson at hotmail.com (Bjorn Julin)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 01:50:14 GMT
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
Message-ID: <20000507015014.19928.qmail@hotmail.com>


>ProOne is 1V per Octave.  It has the same archetecture as the Prophet V, 
>but
>only a single voice.  It is IMHO one of the best monosynths ever made.

>H^)

Yes, i think so to, it was one of the best monos
ever manufactured, solid and stable a a rock!
All CEM, that explains why it was so stable, a little
bit plastic in the user interface, but one got a
lot of synth for the asking money back then.

Any one seen the meditiating budda figure on the PCB!!

BJ,
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun May  7 04:18:00 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 04:18:00 +0200
Subject: BBD-MN3010 and MN3011- is a MN3101 clock necessary?
References: <3.0.5.32.20000506074727.00f93920@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <3.0.5.32.20000507034724.00e74b60@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <006d01bfb7ca$77f53a60$0400a8c0@Theo>


>Maybe use something bigger than the 8-pin varieties.
>
The 28 pin AT90S2333 or 4433 look nice for this kind of application.
(8MHz costs around $7 has 20 I/O pins and onboard 6 channel DAC)

>Then you have enough
>pins to use external clocks for the uC. I'd run the clock out of a high
>speed VCO or PLL, so that I wouldn't have to use devices with ADCs. The
>fact that the gap changes with clocking rate doesn't matter if one uses the
>1/4 clock delayed S/H. The program would be a stupid small endless loop.
>
Yes sure, but part of the fun is to let the uC do more, like LFO or ENV.
The analog inputs let you CV the uC.
Also using the optimum dead time may improve S/N ratio.
The S/H trick should keep the clock noise out, the dead time may affect
leaking
and switching effects inside the divice.

>Oh, and a silly question: Can the ATtiny chips be programmed with a STK-200
?
>
Yes you can program all AVR's (Tiny, S, Mega) with STK200, STK300 or Micro
ISP module.

Don't use the board to program.
Just include a ISP conector on your PCB and use the cable that came with the
STK to hook it up to your computer.
The ISP connection does not eat I/O pins, see the STK manual for a "how to"
example.


Hope this helps,
Theo







From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun May  7 04:22:50 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 04:22:50 +0200
Subject: BBDs: scan of Dynacord SRS 56 clock online
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de><39119E79.509B@istar.ca> <3.0.5.32.20000505013008.00f8d8c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <004901bfb7b4$ade62280$3c38363e@jhaible>
Message-ID: <008101bfb7cb$24afac40$0400a8c0@Theo>

That it way more parts, than the uC solution.
All this can be replaced with one 8pin IC.
(and that is just where the fun starts)

Theo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: jhaible <jhaible at debitel.net>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 1:41 AM
Subject: BBDs: scan of Dynacord SRS 56 clock online


> Before anybody starts to program a PIC (or a Pentium) to
> drive a BBD line, here's how Dynacord did it:
> 
> http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/additional_schemos.html
> 
> (scroll down to the last entry)
> 
> JH.
> 
> 
> 




From BonoVox9 at aol.com  Sun May  7 05:34:22 2000
From: BonoVox9 at aol.com (BonoVox9 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 23:34:22 EDT
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
Message-ID: <de.49a11c6.26463e3e@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/6/00 8:53:15 PM Central Daylight Time, 
bnillson at hotmail.com writes:

<< Yes, i think so to, it was one of the best monos
 ever manufactured, solid and stable a a rock!
 All CEM, that explains why it was so stable, a little
 bit plastic in the user interface, but one got a
 lot of synth for the asking money back then.
 
 Any one seen the meditiating budda figure on the PCB!! >>

Yea!! I saw that little guy inside there, i was wondering what the heck it 
was. it's kinda creepy looking. 



From chordman at flash.net  Sun May  7 10:37:15 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 10:37:15
Subject: In the market for a scope
Message-ID: <200005071738.MAA17320@chupacabras.flash.net>

I've seen some posting regarding scopes and many say that
for synth-DIY/audio use, a 20 MHz bandwidth is sufficient.
Since I have no intention of doing any RF or high speed
digital work, I agree that this limitation would help keep
the price down.

Analogue is a must.  I would like to have dual trace 
(alt and chopped) as well as X-Y operation and Z input.  
Triggered sweep too.

Can any of you recommend brands (and maybe even model numbers)?
And also which mfrs to stay clear of?

I'm looking for something reliable.

I've used Tektronix scopes in the past and although they are very
nice, they are pretty much overkill for my needs I think.

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!






From thelab at sprint.ca  Sun May  7 13:59:03 2000
From: thelab at sprint.ca (|||| Philip ||||)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 08:59:03 -0300
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
References: <de.49a11c6.26463e3e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002d01bfb81b$a67b7600$622067d1@philip>

You must rub his belly for good luck...keeps those CEMs healthy :)

Philip


----- Original Message -----
From: <BonoVox9 at aol.com>
To: <bnillson at hotmail.com>; <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!


> In a message dated 5/6/00 8:53:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
> bnillson at hotmail.com writes:
>
> << Yes, i think so to, it was one of the best monos
>  ever manufactured, solid and stable a a rock!
>  All CEM, that explains why it was so stable, a little
>  bit plastic in the user interface, but one got a
>  lot of synth for the asking money back then.
>
>  Any one seen the meditiating budda figure on the PCB!! >>
>
> Yea!! I saw that little guy inside there, i was wondering what the heck it
> was. it's kinda creepy looking.
>




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Sun May  7 16:05:09 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 07:05:09 -0700
Subject: maxx page
References: <200005061034.MAA46893@mailhub5.libertysurf.fr>
Message-ID: <004d01bfb82f$3ad56320$0100a8c0@homenet>


It's still out there...Adrian's mirror is here.

http://www.aladan.net/efm/maxx/title.html

The cookbook has most of the stuff in it and newer toys too..

http://www.xavax.com/efm/cbook.html

Look around the xavax site there are complete pcb projects
there.

Enjoy..
Tom





> Hi, I'm new in the mailing list
> i used to see a good page which was maxx page or something like that, and i
> can't find it anymore
> because i lost the adress, could u give me again please, it gave a complete
> schematic of different modules whith lots of informations.....
>                                         thanks




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Sun May  7 16:14:31 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 07:14:31 -0700
Subject: It works! somehow...
References: <39149846.4136FACA@nic.fi>
Message-ID: <004e01bfb82f$3b1886a0$0100a8c0@homenet>

Congratulations! You're a synth builder. Feels pretty good huh?
I would love to see pictures...;-)

BTW maxx3 pix should be coming soon. It'll be fun to see the
differences. There must be a bunch a stuff about ready from the
CAM1 distribution maybe we'll see lot's of pictures from
everybody....I would be a happy guy!

Tom



> I have finally finished my synth project. Well, it,s not quite ready
> yet, there's still something wrong in it...
> I call it PG-101. The name comes from its project name, Project Groove,
> and 101 comes from monophonic and it's first one.
> So, what's in it? Well here's the list from all modules I have out on
> it:
>  - Two vco4d from TomG.
>  - Two lfo's, lfo2 and lfo3a from Tom's cookbook
>  - vcf8d, again from Tom's cookbook. MS-20 type.
>  - vca1a, surprising, again from Tom.OBX type
>  - Two env2b envelope gens from Tom
>  - Ring modulator. This one is from JH.
>  - Sub octave gen. from Tom. How surprising....
>  - d-beam modified...
>  - Mixer, some kbd controls, and headphone amp. These are my own
> design...
> It also have to external audio inputs, so I can play whatever I want
> trough filter and amplifier.
> I have put all modules in 6 unit high rack enclosure, and hardwired all
> modules, so no patch cables are needed. I don't know is this good idea
> or not, but I think it's good for me. Front plate is made from aluminum,
> and text and figures has been "painted" on it..."painted" is not the
> right word actually, but I'm so tired at the moment I can't remember the
> right word. But I believe you know what I mean...
>
> So, now it's  good time to thank Tom and Jurgen and all of you. It's
> nice to know if I have some problems or something, I know how I can get
> help. Thank you!
>
> I'm planning to put some pictures from it on my webpage, but I don't
> have digi camera or scanner available at the moment, so it have to for a
> moment.
>
> But I also have so problems with it. CV has no effect on VCA, gain is
> high all the time. I think transistors that controls the gain current
> are broke. But I haven't looked it closer yet...maybe tomorrow.Or day
> after tomorrow...I don't how does VCA's envgen work because of
> that...Also portamento and cv-mixer doesn't work, I have one broken
> opamp there...And I haven't wired ringmodulator yet.
>
> But still, I was extatic when I first time turned it on and heard
> earthquake-like bass coming from it. And after little tweeking, a nice
> whistle and sweep and all. Nice...
>
> Well, gotta go to sleep for a while, just wanted you to know...And
> thanks again for all!
>
>  - Matti
>
>
> --
> Matti E. Leino               email:mle at nic.fi
> M?ntysalontie 2              http:www.nic.fi/~mle
> 28800 PORI                   gsm:+358407076540
> Finland
>
>          - lo que no mata, fortalesa -
>
>
>






From efm3 at mediaone.net  Sun May  7 16:34:56 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 07:34:56 -0700
Subject: mail pc-cards and bs
Message-ID: <005601bfb831$6d572840$0100a8c0@homenet>

I stayed up too late playing with the new (well.. a month or 
two) pc soundcards. It's amazing what you can get for a 
few hundred dollars these days. They really sound good and
will replace the AD516 some of my modules and my hard
ware sampler but the analog synth emulator stuff still sounds 
fake to me. None of those filters stand up very well to the
real deal....but hey they are what they are and do sound 
pretty good and very close sometimes. Who knows what
another year or two might bring?

I'll catch the rest of my mail when I wake up today.

BTW I hope you guys a really starting to get your systems together.
I'm having a pretty damm good time myself...;-)

BTBTW I'm glad we're all still here...Who was that  guy that
said we were all gona die on Friday because our solar system was
out of balance?....Well....so far so good!


Tom






From keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk  Sun May  7 16:45:00 2000
From: keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk (Keith Winstanley)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 15:45 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Was Whoops, now wood cases.
Message-ID: <memo.917573@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <000401bf9dac$c09b4440$0727883e at default>
Hi Tony,

I know I am responding to a month old post but I have been giving the 
synth stuff a rest for a while, I was doing too much so I hung up my 
soldering iron for a while and went skiing and mountain climbing 
eventually finishing up in Amsterdam. I think my sanity may be returning?

>  I have seen all
> these lovely hardwood boxes on everyone else's sites, and now I want
> something better. I'm going to have to raid the local wood merchants...
> what's everyones favourite wood to use? I think the US guys have a
> better choice than we do here in the UK, but I'm looking for something
> that will match the grandieur of my engraved Schaeffer panels.

I had quite a problem tracking down any suitable 'hardwoods' in the UK 
which were affordable enough and looked good enough to justify my cabinet. 
Quite offhandedly a friend suggested I use the pre cut 'mahogany' window 
sills which are quite widely available from most wood yards. (not real 
mahogany, generic, I have been jumped all over about this before) I 
trimmed the machined curved bit off the from and spent a lot of time 
sanding but I think the result looks great. I went into wood finishing in 
some detail to get the look I wanted, varnish and lacquers just don't do 
it for me, its a false finish. So I sealed the wood with Liberon finishing 
oil (Tung oil) and then polished with Liberon Black Bison clear fine paste 
wax polish. It took some time but looks great, much better than varnish. I 
didn't stain either because I always think that looks false too.

Hope this is of some help

Keith
lovely pics of the cabinet here, though I am sure you have seen it before:
http://home.freeuk.net/lowpass




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun May  7 18:07:47 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 12:07:47 -0400
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
References: <de.49a11c6.26463e3e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <391594D2.134AE823@prodigy.net>

Legend has it that the CPU code goes through a little mantra on power up.
It is a small (memory) CPU so I really doubt it...

PC designers are fond of putting in little jokes in their art. I have quite a
few that have
smiley faces, logos etc... that you can only see with the boars backlit...

Frankly... If I met Buddah on the road... I'd kill him !!!

H^)  harry

BonoVox9 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/6/00 8:53:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
> bnillson at hotmail.com writes:
>
> << Yes, i think so to, it was one of the best monos
>  ever manufactured, solid and stable a a rock!
>  All CEM, that explains why it was so stable, a little
>  bit plastic in the user interface, but one got a
>  lot of synth for the asking money back then.
>
>  Any one seen the meditiating budda figure on the PCB!! >>
>
> Yea!! I saw that little guy inside there, i was wondering what the heck it
> was. it's kinda creepy looking.




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sun May  7 18:14:05 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 18:14:05 +0200
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
In-Reply-To: <002d01bfb81b$a67b7600$622067d1@philip>
References: <de.49a11c6.26463e3e@aol.com>
	<002d01bfb81b$a67b7600$622067d1@philip>
Message-ID: <20000507181405D.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "|||| Philip ||||" <thelab at sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 08:59:03 -0300

> You must rub his belly for good luck...keeps those CEMs healthy :)

This is naturally the quickie where as larger disturbance in the energies is
being heald after a longer meditation over the problem with your forhead
gently leaning on the Budda. This is naturally the way to get close to Budda
in the case you dont have a Budda picture in your workshop. The designers of
the Pro-One and P5 had forsee this lack of basic equipment and is particularly
handy when you are on the road and was prohibited by the manager to bring your
normal tour Budda statue.

BTW. Many tries brute force techniques to solve problems as their default
option, they really *should* meditate some over it, consider the known facts
and observations. Also, even after solving the actual problem one should
meditate over it repeatadly in order to gain a higher understanding of similar
problems. Seriously!

Now, don't forget to bring your Budda some water!

Cheers,
Magnus



From synthusiast1 at yahoo.com  Sun May  7 19:54:09 2000
From: synthusiast1 at yahoo.com (Synthusiast)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 19:54:09 +0200
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
References: <de.49a11c6.26463e3e@aol.com> <391594D2.134AE823@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <001c01bfb84d$5209f4c0$0100005a@martijn>

If I'm not mistaken the Prophet 5 had the little mantra code and not the
Pro-One. It makes you wonder: Did other designers put a little curse in the
CPU code of their synth design?

Cheers,
Synthusiast


> Legend has it that the CPU code goes through a little mantra on power up.
> It is a small (memory) CPU so I really doubt it...
>
> PC designers are fond of putting in little jokes in their art. I have
quite a
> few that have
> smiley faces, logos etc... that you can only see with the boars backlit...
>
> Frankly... If I met Buddah on the road... I'd kill him !!!
>
> H^)  harry
>
> BonoVox9 at aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 5/6/00 8:53:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > bnillson at hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > << Yes, i think so to, it was one of the best monos
> >  ever manufactured, solid and stable a a rock!
> >  All CEM, that explains why it was so stable, a little
> >  bit plastic in the user interface, but one got a
> >  lot of synth for the asking money back then.
> >
> >  Any one seen the meditiating budda figure on the PCB!! >>
> >
> > Yea!! I saw that little guy inside there, i was wondering what the heck
it
> > was. it's kinda creepy looking.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sun May  7 20:17:49 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 20:17:49 +0200
Subject: BBDs: scan of Dynacord SRS 56 clock online
In-Reply-To: <008101bfb7cb$24afac40$0400a8c0@Theo>
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <39119E79.509B@istar.ca>
 <3.0.5.32.20000505013008.00f8d8c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <004901bfb7b4$ade62280$3c38363e@jhaible>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000507201749.008faaf0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>


There is one thing: Nearly all uCs run on 3-6V, 
so you'd have to levelshift anyway. 
(Exept for those MN32xx which are designed for 
low voltage operation...)

Bye,
 Ren?

At 04:22 07.05.00 +0200, Theo wrote:
>That it way more parts, than the uC solution.
>All this can be replaced with one 8pin IC.
>(and that is just where the fun starts)
>
>Theo


transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From proteus at ugwarehouse.org  Sun May  7 20:51:04 2000
From: proteus at ugwarehouse.org (The Proteus)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 11:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Of Scopes and CPU's
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000507114654.6356A-100000@falcon.ugwarehouse.org>

Okay, I just have to get into this one:

	Since there's all this talk about Scopes and what's proper for
*analogue* design, what about hybrid designs with CPU's? Of course a
20-30MHz scope is perfectly acceptable for analogue use... you're not
going into HF ranges at all, but what about when you're doing digital and
hybrid designs? How would you pick a good scope for such a thing? Would
you want to get something that's as fast as the clock frequency of your
microprocessor? 2x as fast? 
	One final question, has anyone checked out the new DPO's (Digital
Phosphor Oscilloscopes) from Tektronix? Anyone get a chance to play with
one and give us a decent review? 

Cheers,

The Proteus

- - - T h e  U n d e r g r o u n d  W a r e h o u s e - - -
- - - Subversive - Tools - For - A - Chaotic - Planet - - -
-  h t t p : / / w w w . u g w a r e h o u s e . o r g /  -
--<T h e  P r o t e u s>-<Musician>-<Producer>-<Engineer>--




From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun May  7 20:58:14 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:58:14 +0200
Subject: BBDs: scan of Dynacord SRS 56 clock online
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de><39119E79.509B@istar.ca><3.0.5.32.20000505013008.00f8d8c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de><004901bfb7b4$ade62280$3c38363e@jhaible> <3.0.5.32.20000507201749.008faaf0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <003301bfb856$32cda760$0400a8c0@Theo>

Rene wrote
> 
> There is one thing: Nearly all uCs run on 3-6V, 
> so you'd have to levelshift anyway. 
> (Exept for those MN32xx which are designed for 
> low voltage operation...)
> 
Help, how low would that be?
Silly me still has to get used to all those 2.7V devices.
MN32xx goes lower than that? creepy!!

Theo  




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sun May  7 22:16:43 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 22:16:43 +0200
Subject: BBDs: scan of Dynacord SRS 56 clock online
In-Reply-To: <003301bfb856$32cda760$0400a8c0@Theo>
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <39119E79.509B@istar.ca>
 <3.0.5.32.20000505013008.00f8d8c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <004901bfb7b4$ade62280$3c38363e@jhaible>
 <3.0.5.32.20000507201749.008faaf0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000507221643.00930360@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

Hi Theo!

Looking at the MN3204 datasheet it says: 4-10V, with 5V typ.
I.e. TTL levels. (I don't know anything about availability of these!!) 
 
For the more typical MN3004/8 you'd have to interpose a TTL open collector
driver together with a more beefy push-pull stage. (For better drive/sink
capabilities.) 

Bye,
 Ren?

At 20:58 07.05.00 +0200, Theo wrote:
>Help, how low would that be?
>Silly me still has to get used to all those 2.7V devices.
>MN32xx goes lower than that? creepy!!
>
>Theo  



transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun May  7 22:18:10 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 16:18:10 -0400
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
References: <de.49a11c6.26463e3e@aol.com>
		<002d01bfb81b$a67b7600$622067d1@philip> <20000507181405D.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3915CF82.12F1EB2C@prodigy.net>



Magnus Danielson wrote:

> <snip>
>
> Now, don't forget to bring your Budda some water!

Do I just pour it in between the keys... or would the bathtub be better...
And does it need to be plugged in when I put it in the tub ????

(disclaimer... DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME......)

H^) harry

>
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus




From mirwin1 at istar.ca  Sun May  7 22:43:19 2000
From: mirwin1 at istar.ca (Mike I.)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 16:43:19 -0400
Subject: BBDs: scan of Dynacord SRS 56 clock online
References: <3.0.5.32.20000501044711.00926300@mailout.uni-bonn.de><39119E79.509B@istar.ca><3.0.5.32.20000505013008.00f8d8c0@mailout.uni-bonn.de><004901bfb7b4$ade62280$3c38363e@jhaible> <3.0.5.32.20000507201749.008faaf0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <003301bfb856$32cda760$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <3915D567.1AAB@istar.ca>

The Mn31xx series will operate at 15 volts. The MN32xx series is rated 
for 11 volts abs. max. Running at 9 volts is fine, they will operate 
down to 4 or 5 volts. The MN33xx series will operate at 3 volts. The 
MN31xx series has the best S/N ratio, while the MN33xx series has the 
worst. MN32xx is in between. To download the data sheets, go to:

	http://balassant.sote.hu/madchem/El/bbd.html

Regards, Mike



From bnillson at hotmail.com  Sun May  7 22:55:03 2000
From: bnillson at hotmail.com (Bjorn Julin)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 20:55:03 GMT
Subject: Im the rude and baad dude! He he ,ho ho, Cliff eat bananas!
Message-ID: <20000507205503.38385.qmail@hotmail.com>

>Always like to hear about stacked females!!   :-)

Who does'nt ! :-D

Strange that stacked male is newer
going to be fashionable! :-)

>Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
>Hewlett-Packard
>Verifone Division
>916-630-2541
>tim_r1 at verifone.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bjorn Julin [mailto:bnillson at hotmail.com]
>Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 1:23 PM
>To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
>Subject: Im the rude and baad dude! He he ,ho ho, Cliff eat bananas!
>
>
>At the big mess Cliff showed some new
>stacked female 1/4 and 3,5 mm PCB and
>wire mounted connectors.Both mono and stereo
>connectors wersions was manufactured.
>
>They said that they are available
>from suppliers today!!
>Nice for your modular.
>
>BJ
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From Roel.Das at student.groept.be  Sun May  7 22:57:37 2000
From: Roel.Das at student.groept.be (Roel Das)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 22:57:37 +0200
Subject: Frontplate sizes...
Message-ID: <011f01bfb866$e0a44460$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>

Hello everyone...

I've etched my first pcb this weekend. (my own design for a simple VCO of
Tom G's site) It looks very nice, and it works. Next weekend I'll make a
frontplate for it, a noise source, S&H, and LFO. Or I'll try to make that...
(BTW, any PCB cutting tips? I did this one by scratching it very deep with a
stanley knife, and then breaking it. This works fairly good for small sizes,
I think...)

My question; what are the 'standard' sizes for modular frontplates? I want
the modules to be compatible with either MOTM or Paia's FracRack, but I
couldn't find any details about the sizes. How big are they, and where
should the mounting holes be, etc...

And some random questions: one of my friends was looking for a vocal->MIDI
convertor. How do you do that? Any Freq->CV designs that work good for
vocals? Maybe a commercial device?

And could anyone resend me the links of Tom G's Cam project pdf's?
Accidently trashed that one...

Thanks,
Roel







From Roel.Das at student.groept.be  Sun May  7 23:09:11 2000
From: Roel.Das at student.groept.be (Roel Das)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 23:09:11 +0200
Subject: Amp selector...
Message-ID: <012b01bfb868$80592a60$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>

Hello again...

My friend bought himself an 1977 Orange amp. Very nice, but broken. Mean
clicks... We opened it up to check if it was one of those no-PCB designs (it
wasn't), and there was a big cap swinging aroung with one loose end. No idea
what I was doing exactly (Yes, somebody should really give me a spanking),
but it wouldn't hurt to just fix that cap, little solder and it's connected
to it's leads again. Lesser clicks, but still...

Anyway, he needs an amp-selector for this. A pedal, with guitar input, and 3
outputs, one for each amp, that can be switched on and off seperately. Maybe
I'll add a switchable effectsloop too as a bonus. Quite easy, some flip
flops, and fet-switches. The guitar signal will be going to 3 amps, worst
case. Should I put buffers in this(And offcourse, why, why not?), and how
can I get a buffer for this to work on a 9V battery? (No symmetrical power
source...)

Thanks
Roel





From grichter at execpc.com  Sun May  7 23:14:04 2000
From: grichter at execpc.com (Grant Richter)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 16:14:04 -0500
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
Message-ID: <200005072114.QAA18674@mailgw01.execpc.com>

I also heard a rumor that there is a prayer wheel built
into the keyboard. Each keypress triggers a sequence
of bytes that is a buddhist prayer?

----------
>From: "Bjorn Julin" <bnillson at hotmail.com>
>To: harrybissell at prodigy.net
>Cc: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
>Subject: Re: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
>Date: Sat, May 6, 2000, 8:50 PM
>

>
>>ProOne is 1V per Octave.  It has the same archetecture as the Prophet V,
>>but
>>only a single voice.  It is IMHO one of the best monosynths ever made.
>
>>H^)
>
> Yes, i think so to, it was one of the best monos
> ever manufactured, solid and stable a a rock!
> All CEM, that explains why it was so stable, a little
> bit plastic in the user interface, but one got a
> lot of synth for the asking money back then.
>
> Any one seen the meditiating budda figure on the PCB!!
>
> BJ,
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> 



From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Mon May  8 00:41:37 2000
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 23:41:37 +0100
Subject: free 'scopes for audio signals
Message-ID: <004901bfb875$68da88e0$ec41883e@default>



> Most soundcards do not have DC input response, something which I consider
> absolutly essential for synth work, or any work for that matter...


Nor do they have the high impedance of a scope, their bandwidth will be
around 20KHz rather than the 20MHz or more of a cheap scope and they
may be noisier than the 16+ bit spec of the soundcard suggests.

However, they only cost the price of download time if you already have a PC
and soundcard (I guess that covers a high proportion of those on the list).
And
there's usually spectrum analyser software thrown in too.

You can find another Soundblaster "scope" plus a frequency counter and a
sinewave generator at:

http://w3.pca.net/~cpclark/





Spridley





From cfmd at swipnet.se  Mon May  8 00:54:49 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:54:49 +0200
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
In-Reply-To: <3915CF82.12F1EB2C@prodigy.net>
References: <002d01bfb81b$a67b7600$622067d1@philip>
	<20000507181405D.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<3915CF82.12F1EB2C@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20000508005449G.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 16:18:10 -0400

Hi Harry,

Being funny again, are we? ;)

Well, we are on the techno-religous boundary and I can understand why many are
mighthy confused.

> > Now, don't forget to bring your Budda some water!
> 
> Do I just pour it in between the keys... or would the bathtub be better...
> And does it need to be plugged in when I put it in the tub ????

You should not try to drown him here! We are talking about making an ritual
offering of water, something which is quite diffent than trying to make the
Pro-One as part of your hygenic routine. I must strongly advice against doing
such a move since it will transform this sequential curcuit into a parallell
curcuit, also known as short curcuit. The later can anyone in the parallell
computing world testify to, sometimes it just goes haywire so it could very
well be a malicious short curcuit!

> (disclaimer... DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME......)

Curtainly not!

Oh, this brings me into the good old area of shower karaoke, the obvious choice
for those singing in the shower. I never got a patent or other protection for
that one, but it is still intreaging to discuss weither there really exist a
market for one or not. Any takers?

Cheers,
Magnus



From thelab at sprint.ca  Mon May  8 01:27:34 2000
From: thelab at sprint.ca (|||| Philip ||||)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:27:34 -0300
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
References: <de.49a11c6.26463e3e@aol.com>	<002d01bfb81b$a67b7600$622067d1@philip> <20000507181405D.cfmd@swipnet.se> <3915CF82.12F1EB2C@prodigy.net> <005501bfb87e$c7c304a0$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <002a01bfb87b$d5caf740$162067d1@philip>

The EPROM code for the JX-8p has many engineer names embedded. My guess is
that special key presses bring it to the LED display.

Philip


----- Original Message -----
From: tomg <efm3 at mediaone.net>
To: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>; Magnus Danielson
<cfmd at swipnet.se>
Cc: <thelab at sprint.ca>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!


> If you've got a Amiga500 look under the disk drive.
> "B52 Rock Lobster" is etched into the board. The
> A1000 has the dev-team signatures inside the lid
> even the dog...;-) My Mac plus also has the dev
> team imprinted into the case.
>
> Tom
>
>
> > Magnus Danielson wrote:
> >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > Now, don't forget to bring your Budda some water!
> >
> > Do I just pour it in between the keys... or would the bathtub be
better...
> > And does it need to be plugged in when I put it in the tub ????
> >
> > (disclaimer... DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME......)
> >
> > H^) harry
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Magnus
> >
>




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Mon May  8 01:48:42 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 16:48:42 -0700
Subject: Sequential Circuits Pro-One and the Budda!!
References: <de.49a11c6.26463e3e@aol.com>	<002d01bfb81b$a67b7600$622067d1@philip> <20000507181405D.cfmd@swipnet.se> <3915CF82.12F1EB2C@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <005501bfb87e$c7c304a0$0100a8c0@homenet>

If you've got a Amiga500 look under the disk drive.
"B52 Rock Lobster" is etched into the board. The
A1000 has the dev-team signatures inside the lid
even the dog...;-) My Mac plus also has the dev
team imprinted into the case.

Tom


> Magnus Danielson wrote:
> 
> > <snip>
> >
> > Now, don't forget to bring your Budda some water!
> 
> Do I just pour it in between the keys... or would the bathtub be better...
> And does it need to be plugged in when I put it in the tub ????
> 
> (disclaimer... DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME......)
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Magnus
> 




From DCMagnuson at aol.com  Mon May  8 03:00:56 2000
From: DCMagnuson at aol.com (DCMagnuson at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 21:00:56 EDT
Subject: Frontplate sizes...
Message-ID: <98.4babbc2.26476bc8@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/7/00 5:00:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Roel.Das at student.groept.be writes:

> My question; what are the 'standard' sizes for modular frontplates? I want
>  the modules to be compatible with either MOTM or Paia's FracRack, but I
>  couldn't find any details about the sizes. How big are they, and where
>  should the mounting holes be, etc...

The Paia frac-rac faceplates are 5.25" tall and multiples of 1.5" wide.  (a 
1U is 1.5", 2U is 3.0", etc)

The holes are .75" from the panel's edge (horizontally) and 5/16" from the 
top or bottom of the panel.    A 1U panel has one hole on the top/bottom.  A 
2U panel has 2 holes on the top/bottom 1.5" apart, the 3U also has 2 holes, 
and they're spaced 3.0" apart

Sorry for the measurement in inches...

Dave Magnuson



From thescum at surfree.com  Mon May  8 05:10:23 2000
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:10:23 -0400
Subject: Of Scopes and CPU's
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000508031023.0130a2b4@smtp.surfree.com>

>	Since there's all this talk about Scopes and what's proper for
>*analogue* design, what about hybrid designs with CPU's? Of course a
>20-30MHz scope is perfectly acceptable for analogue use... you're not
>going into HF ranges at all, but what about when you're doing digital and
>hybrid designs? How would you pick a good scope for such a thing? Would
>you want to get something that's as fast as the clock frequency of your
>microprocessor? 2x as fast? 

I'm not sure of any hard and fast guidelines here, but I can relate based on
expreience.

For most small microprocessor systems, a 20-30MHz scope will do fairly well.
I've been running various systems in the 10 MHz and down range in the past
couple years, using scopes in the 10-20 MHz range.  While they may not be
the best tools for watching realy high-speed digital stuff, and you can find
yourself on the upper end of the time scale (where the trace can become a
little faint), but it will still work.

I've never found myself thinking "gee...if only this scope went faster."
I've wished for more channels, or probes with finer tips, or for a scope
where I wouldn't leave the input in ground-reference mode, but never
faster...but I might not know what I'm missing.

For low-parts-count microprocessor designs, if you're using sometihng like a
PIC, HC5/11, AVR, lo-speed 8051, etc, etc, you should do fine with a slower
scope.

If you're working with bigger & faster systems (68K, Hitachi SH, etc, etc),
then you'll probably find that a (digital/storage) scope isn't the only tool
you'll need: a memory bus analyzer might also be necessary.

Byron Jacquot




From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Mon May  8 07:05:41 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob Zero)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 00:05:41 -0500
Subject: Of Scopes and CPU's
References: <1.5.4.32.20000508031023.0130a2b4@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <003d01bfb8ab$107848a0$98effea9@cyborgzerotech>


----- Original Message -----
From: Byron G. Jacquot <thescum at surfree.com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Of Scopes and CPU's


> If you're working with bigger & faster systems (68K, Hitachi SH, etc,
etc),
> then you'll probably find that a (digital/storage) scope isn't the only
tool
> you'll need: a memory bus analyzer might also be necessary.

Yeah, but then again, it might be more worthwhile at that point just to buy
the realtime emulator for the chip you are using.. Sometimes its way cheaper
than buying a 50k USD 48 channel HP logic analyzer. Plus, the emulator may
show to be more helpful in the long run.

Rob





From leitner6 at concentric.net  Mon May  8 07:38:51 2000
From: leitner6 at concentric.net (Larry Leitner)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:38:51 -0500
Subject: BBD idea
References: <001301bfb93b$73224ce0$3a38363e@jhaible> <39176315.A5C70B54@tomy.net>
Message-ID: <391652EA.C67C6353@concentric.net>


I noticed that a lot of effects with BBDs have companders built around
them to reduce noise.

My idea was to take 1 clock chip and feed two BBDs, take the input and
split it with buffer and an
inverter and run the outputs into the repective BBDs.  Take the output
of the BBDs into a differential amp.
The idea is to hopefully cancel out any clock noise by running it
balanced.   Although I'm assuming the two chips
would have similiar noise characteristics.  Maybe running it this way
would give you a greater range over the noise floor?

Forgive me, I'm a digital engineer.
Larry



From mitch at sirius.com  Mon May  8 08:54:29 2000
From: mitch at sirius.com (Mitchell Hudson)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:54:29 -0700
Subject: ASM-1 Pots
Message-ID: <391664A4.CCBD575B@sirius.com>

    I am finally finishing up my ASM-1. I building the front panel and
am unclear as to what  values to use for the front panel pots? Any
suggestions? I am figuring to use 100K for the fine tune pots and 1M for
the coarse tune and then 100K for everything else?

--M




From nikro at itn.liu.se  Mon May  8 09:10:33 2000
From: nikro at itn.liu.se (Niklas =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F6nnberg?=)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 09:10:33 +0200
Subject: MIDI-THRU
Message-ID: <39166869.1BC9BA0B@itn.liu.se>

Hello!
I build a midi-thru box this weekend. 1 midi-in to 8 midi-thru. I have
used this  Schematic (from Midwest Analog Products), at least some parts
of it.
http://mall.lakes.com/~map/graphics/advmd-s1.gif
But I am a bit confused, about the 5-pin DIN jacks. According to a
Swedish electronics supplier the pin number of the jack looks like this
(5'D'):
http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/synth/din.gif
The jack is numbered from the soldering side (the inside). Does the
schematic show the jack from the outside? Which pin-number should go to
the 220 ohm resistor (4 or 5)? Where can I find that pin, counted from
which side?
Please...
/Niklas
___________________________________

Niklas R?nnberg, Lecturer (Media Technology)

Dept of Science and Technology (ITN)
Link?ping University, Campus Norrk?ping

Phone: +46(0)11-363316 Fax:+46(0)11-363270
E-mail: nikro at itn.liu.se
Homepage: http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/

    "The semiotic $64,000 question:
  Why and how is who communicating what
     to whom and with what effect?"





From nikro at itn.liu.se  Mon May  8 13:40:59 2000
From: nikro at itn.liu.se (Niklas =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F6nnberg?=)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 13:40:59 +0200
Subject: MIDI-THRU
References: <39166869.1BC9BA0B@itn.liu.se>
Message-ID: <3916A7CB.B47F9C20@itn.liu.se>

Niklas R?nnberg wrote:

> Which pin-number should go to the 220 ohm resistor (4 or 5)? Where can I
> find that pin, counted from which side?

That sounded strange... Once again:
Which pin-number on the midi-in jack should go to the 220 ohm resistor? And
where can I find that pin?
Both pin 4 and 5 should go to a 220 ohm resistor on the midi-thru jack...
/Niklas
___________________________________

Niklas R?nnberg, Lecturer (Media Technology)

Dept of Science and Technology (ITN)
Link?ping University, Campus Norrk?ping

Phone: +46(0)11-363316 Fax:+46(0)11-363270
E-mail: nikro at itn.liu.se
Homepage: http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/

    "The semiotic $64,000 question:
  Why and how is who communicating what
     to whom and with what effect?"





From emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk  Mon May  8 14:05:15 2000
From: emmanuel at postimpressions.co.uk (Emmanuel AMADIO)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 13:05:15 +0100
Subject: New in the list
References: <200005051747.MAA11052@mailgw02.execpc.com>
Message-ID: <3916AD7B.33FFA3C9@postimpressions.co.uk>

Thanks for the info but the thing which is still blured in my mind is why the JX8P and the JX10 have capacitors of
different values when they have the same circuitry and exactly the same chips (the sound module boards are the same).

Grant Richter wrote:
> 
> You will see this in unbuffered filter designs.
> A good example is the lowpass filter from the
> ARP 2600 envelope follower. I modeled it in SPICE
> and it gives a nice sharp 24 Db/Oct rolloff with no
> buffering between stages.
> 
> Further stages load the previous stage and reduce Q
> so the impedance of the stages is modified to end
> up with a nice sharp corner at the end. You typically
> see the resistor values go up and the cap values
> go down for stages later in the chain.
> 
> >> C1=C2=10 nF
> >> C3=C4=220 pF
> >
> > The other strange thing is that for the JX8P  C1=C2=C3=10 nF and C4=220pF
> >
> > Regards Emmanuel
> >



From synthusiast1 at yahoo.com  Mon May  8 16:07:04 2000
From: synthusiast1 at yahoo.com (Synthusiast)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 16:07:04 +0200
Subject: MIDI-THRU
References: <39166869.1BC9BA0B@itn.liu.se> <3916A7CB.B47F9C20@itn.liu.se>
Message-ID: <000f01bfb8f6$c2b54b30$0100005a@martijn>

>That sounded strange... Once again:
>Which pin-number on the midi-in jack should go to the 220 ohm resistor? And
>where can I find that pin?
>Both pin 4 and 5 should go to a 220 ohm resistor on the midi-thru jack...


I think this picture will help you. The pin numbers correspond to the solder
sides of the plugs.

http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/midi.gif


Cheers,
Synthusiast


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com



From blacet at metro.net  Mon May  8 17:37:54 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 15:37:54 +0000
Subject: test -sorry
References: <001301bfb93b$73224ce0$3a38363e@jhaible>
Message-ID: <3916DF53.57E4@metro.net>

Maybe everyone is recovering from the "I L**E You" virus... :<

Glad to be a MAC owner....

Hey, I've got an old Kawai Mixer (rack mount) and it distorts the Fatman
filter sooo nice! (discoverd by accident..) I think it has some of those
4558 or 1458 op amps in there (looked once, years ago...).
-- 

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue May  9 00:19:14 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:19:14 +0200
Subject: test -sorry
Message-ID: <001301bfb93b$73224ce0$3a38363e@jhaible>

Strangely quiet on 2 lists at the same time

JH.





From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May  9 00:37:36 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 15:37:36 -0700 
Subject: In the market for a scope
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18B6@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Scott,

Check out E-Bay. I saw a Tektronix 453 for $36!! Dual-channel 50MHz analog. Good
Price!

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Gravenhorst [mailto:chordman at flash.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 3:37 AM
To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Subject: In the market for a scope


I've seen some posting regarding scopes and many say that
for synth-DIY/audio use, a 20 MHz bandwidth is sufficient.
Since I have no intention of doing any RF or high speed
digital work, I agree that this limitation would help keep
the price down.

Analogue is a must.  I would like to have dual trace 
(alt and chopped) as well as X-Y operation and Z input.  
Triggered sweep too.

Can any of you recommend brands (and maybe even model numbers)?
And also which mfrs to stay clear of?

I'm looking for something reliable.

I've used Tektronix scopes in the past and although they are very
nice, they are pretty much overkill for my needs I think.

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From drtempus at home.com  Tue May  9 01:00:13 2000
From: drtempus at home.com (DrTempus)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 19:00:13 -0400
Subject: WTB: ARP Quartet Service Manual
References: <Pine.HPP.3.95.1000428153629.25361A-100000@castor.salleURL.edu>
Message-ID: <391746FD.28A6D21@home.com>

I'm looking for an ARP Quartet Service Manual.
If you have one and are willing to copy it
for a reasonable price, please email me.

Just the schematic would be fine if somebody had it.
Rogue Music didn't.

Thanks.

-Allen
 www.darkaether.net



From n0nspaz at loa.com  Tue May  9 01:16:42 2000
From: n0nspaz at loa.com (mark scetta)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 19:16:42 -0400
Subject: In the market for a scope
In-Reply-To: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18B6@SMF-NT-MAIL1>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000508191559.00bf46e0@mail.loa.com>

man....

i paid the going rate of $350 for my tek 465 (an excellent scope for my DIY 
needs).

mark

At 03:37 PM 5/8/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Scott,
>
>Check out E-Bay. I saw a Tektronix 453 for $36!! Dual-channel 50MHz 
>analog. Good
>Price!
>
>Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
>Hewlett-Packard
>Verifone Division
>916-630-2541
>tim_r1 at verifone.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott Gravenhorst [mailto:chordman at flash.net]
>Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 3:37 AM
>To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
>Subject: In the market for a scope
>
>
>I've seen some posting regarding scopes and many say that
>for synth-DIY/audio use, a 20 MHz bandwidth is sufficient.
>Since I have no intention of doing any RF or high speed
>digital work, I agree that this limitation would help keep
>the price down.
>
>Analogue is a must.  I would like to have dual trace
>(alt and chopped) as well as X-Y operation and Z input.
>Triggered sweep too.
>
>Can any of you recommend brands (and maybe even model numbers)?
>And also which mfrs to stay clear of?
>
>I'm looking for something reliable.
>
>I've used Tektronix scopes in the past and although they are very
>nice, they are pretty much overkill for my needs I think.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst
>-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
>-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!
>




From ka4hjh at gte.net  Tue May  9 01:39:11 2000
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:39:11 -0400
Subject: test -sorry
In-Reply-To: <3916DF53.57E4@metro.net>
References: <001301bfb93b$73224ce0$3a38363e@jhaible>
 <3916DF53.57E4@metro.net>
Message-ID: <p04310102b53d0075ac56@[63.28.152.217]>

>Maybe everyone is recovering from the "I L**E You" virus... :<
>
>Glad to be a MAC owner....

Have had a similar weekend--with a Mac list. I don't get it...


-- 
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"



From bnillson at hotmail.com  Tue May  9 01:55:56 2000
From: bnillson at hotmail.com (Bjorn Julin)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 23:55:56 GMT
Subject: Do you suffer from soft sync?
Message-ID: <20000508235556.13445.qmail@hotmail.com>

Do you suffer from soft synced oscillators?
Tell me, do you flush out your vax plug
in your ear with up heated strawberry yougurt?

Now, how does that actually sound?
Is this a problem that you can live whit?

BJ (the rude psycologist in the country of deaf sweeds)


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From psnow at magma.ca  Tue May  9 02:19:23 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 20:19:23 -0400
Subject: test -sorry
References: <001301bfb93b$73224ce0$3a38363e@jhaible> <3916DF53.57E4@metro.net>
Message-ID: <3917598B.D6B3B78E@magma.ca>


Well, nice not to be an Outlook (Lookout) user that's for sure.

John E Blacet wrote:
> 
> Maybe everyone is recovering from the "I L**E You" virus... :<
> 
> Glad to be a MAC owner....
> 
> Hey, I've got an old Kawai Mixer (rack mount) and it distorts the Fatman
> filter sooo nice! (discoverd by accident..) I think it has some of those
> 4558 or 1458 op amps in there (looked once, years ago...).
> --
> 
> Regards.
> -------------------------
> John Blacet
> Blacet Research Music Electronics
> http://www.blacet.com
> -------------------------
> blacet at metro.net
> -------------------------
> Are you on our mailing list?
> http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From thudson at tomy.net  Tue May  9 03:00:05 2000
From: thudson at tomy.net (Thomas Hudson)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 21:00:05 -0400
Subject: [motm] test -sorry
References: <001301bfb93b$73224ce0$3a38363e@jhaible>
Message-ID: <39176315.A5C70B54@tomy.net>

jhaible wrote:
> 
> Strangely quiet on 2 lists at the same time
> 
Okay, I'll pipe up. I just finished a MOTM 410 and spent the 
last two hours running a single VCO through the unit and twiddling. 

One word; Awesome.

The stereo effects are a dream come true. I wanted this for
the Jean-Michel Jarre type sounds, but I was afraid it would be
a one trick pony. It isn't. I haven't even started experimenting 
with using any of the external voltage control options.

Now I need to build a preamp to boost a line signal to 10vptp,
because I've got to run a guitar through this thing. Actually, 
guitar into univibe into 410 into mixer. 

I noticed when building the unit that it used JRC 4558's. This
is the chip that supposedly is responsible for the legendary tube
screamer sound. Other 4558's don't seem to cut it. Jack Orman
has a good discussion about this here:

http://www.muzique.com/lab/latch.htm

Paul, where did you get these chips, and are there any more to be 
found? 

Thomas



From arp2813 at home.com  Tue May  9 03:03:31 2000
From: arp2813 at home.com (Blandon Ray)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 21:03:31 -0400
Subject: In the market for a scope
References: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18B6@SMF-NT-MAIL1>
Message-ID: <391763E2.A04410A0@home.com>

Tim Ressel wrote:

> Check out E-Bay. I saw a Tektronix 453 for $36!! Dual-channel 50MHz analog. Good
> Price!

It is, but they don't stay that low for long... I was shopping for a scope on eBay
and I must have been outbid at the last minute ten or fifteen times, before I
finally got a Tek 7603 with plugins for $189.95.

blandon




From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue May  9 04:33:00 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 04:33:00 +0200
Subject: test -sorry
References: <001301bfb93b$73224ce0$3a38363e@jhaible>
Message-ID: <001501bfb95e$e553c500$0400a8c0@Theo>

Same here, mail was down for quite some time.
Usenet was a total F.up also over here.

Cheers Theo


----- Original Message ----- 
From: jhaible <jhaible at debitel.net>
To: diy <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>; <motm at egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 12:19 AM
Subject: test -sorry


> Strangely quiet on 2 lists at the same time
> 
> JH.
> 
> 
> 




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Tue May  9 04:52:03 2000
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:52:03 EDT
Subject: In the market for a scope
Message-ID: <54.39c2905.2648d753@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/8/00 4:17:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, n0nspaz at loa.com 
writes:

<< i paid the going rate of $350 for my tek 465 (an excellent scope for my 
DIY 
 needs). >>

I've got a few scopes I've picked up various places:

Tektronix 465B rackmount (paid 135 at a flea market)
Tektronix 7704 (paid 90, then another 90 for a logic analyzer plugin)
Velleman handheld scope, not very fast but hey, it's handheld(paid 
2hundred-something new)
Leader (not sure of model number) about 75 mhz (paid 50 bucks)
Tektronix 531 (paid 5 bucks)
Old Eico tube-based scope (free from the dump)
Old Heathkit tube-based scope (also from the dump)

I've also got a couple multi-channel logic analyzers, called uAnalyst 
(micro-analyst), made by northwest instruments. they plug into a proprietary 
ISA card, and display on a PC..I haven't tried them out yet, but they seem 
like they might have possibilities.


Chris



From patchell at teletrac.com  Tue May  9 05:35:40 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (patchell)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 20:35:40 -0700
Subject: Frustrating Day of DIY
Message-ID: <3917878C.89E8994F@silcom.com>

    Took a day off from work today to relax and have a round of DIY.  My
cat seemed to think differently.  Don't get me wrong, I love cats, in
fact this one is a rescue.  When I am working in my project room
however, he has to be right there, "helping" me.  His favorite trick is
to dig through a box of junk and find the little wires, which I then
have to rescue from him.  I did at least get the circuit working, but
between the cat and my bad eyesight, it was a rough day.  Everybody at
work is probably hoping the day off was going to put me in a better
mood.

-Jim

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue May  9 06:20:07 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 06:20:07 +0200
Subject: In the market for a scope
References: <54.39c2905.2648d753@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00c901bfb96d$dbd35fe0$0400a8c0@Theo>

Some of those old Heatkits are a don't for synth DIY.
They don't do DC!!.
However if you're deep into B/W TV, it may be the just the thing you've been
looking for. ;^)

BTW: I have the full manual & diagrams for the Heatkit IO-18 (one of the
most common).
Intrested?

Cheers Theo



----- Original Message -----
From: <CHoaglin at aol.com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: In the market for a scope


> In a message dated 5/8/00 4:17:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
n0nspaz at loa.com
> writes:
>
> << i paid the going rate of $350 for my tek 465 (an excellent scope for my
> DIY
>  needs). >>
>
> I've got a few scopes I've picked up various places:
>
> Tektronix 465B rackmount (paid 135 at a flea market)
> Tektronix 7704 (paid 90, then another 90 for a logic analyzer plugin)
> Velleman handheld scope, not very fast but hey, it's handheld(paid
> 2hundred-something new)
> Leader (not sure of model number) about 75 mhz (paid 50 bucks)
> Tektronix 531 (paid 5 bucks)
> Old Eico tube-based scope (free from the dump)
> Old Heathkit tube-based scope (also from the dump)
>
> I've also got a couple multi-channel logic analyzers, called uAnalyst
> (micro-analyst), made by northwest instruments. they plug into a
proprietary
> ISA card, and display on a PC..I haven't tried them out yet, but they seem
> like they might have possibilities.
>
>
> Chris




From skin_job at hotmail.com  Tue May  9 06:36:39 2000
From: skin_job at hotmail.com (skinny bastard)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 04:36:39 GMT
Subject: Frustrating Day of DIY
Message-ID: <20000509043639.99392.qmail@hotmail.com>

Tell me about it. Just wait until YOUR cat swallows a five foot ball of 
organic solder too!


>From: patchell <patchell at teletrac.com>
>To: "synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl" <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: Frustrating Day of DIY
>Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 20:35:40 -0700
>
>     Took a day off from work today to relax and have a round of DIY.  My
>cat seemed to think differently.  Don't get me wrong, I love cats, in
>fact this one is a rescue.  When I am working in my project room
>however, he has to be right there, "helping" me.  His favorite trick is
>to dig through a box of junk and find the little wires, which I then
>have to rescue from him.  I did at least get the circuit working, but
>between the cat and my bad eyesight, it was a rough day.  Everybody at
>work is probably hoping the day off was going to put me in a better
>mood.
>
>-Jim
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From jimbob at heliconsc.net  Tue May  9 09:15:07 2000
From: jimbob at heliconsc.net (James Damewood)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 03:15:07 -0400
Subject: Chaos Circuit
Message-ID: <004a01bfb986$4de25ce0$b6a2fea9@carol.net>

Looking at this oscillator circuit, what is the function of the 10K resistor on the output of U1A?
It is almost like an inverting amplifier using 100k and 16.3k.  But it uses the non-inverting inputs.
I has simulated the circuit on the computer and it functions as a less than unity gain in-phase.

Of course I know how to solve the rest of the circuits as inverting amps, sum amps and proportional integrators.

Thanks
Jimbob


 http://www.omninet.co.jp/workshop/essay/CHAOS.GIF 
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From chordman at flash.net  Tue May  9 07:31:16 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 07:31:16
Subject: In the market for a scope
Message-ID: <200005091435.JAA26711@chupacabras.flash.net>

I did the TV thing when I was a kid...  A month later I bought
an Eico kit.  I still have it, but it's only a 460 _KILO_hertz
bandwidth scope.  And it's in real sad condition.  Needs new
tubes and caps.  I thought about gutting it and replacing the
guts with solid state, but I'd rather spend my limited DIY time
making musical stuff.

So I'm looking to buy something, new preferrably, but obviously
I don't want to spend a fortune.  Hoping to get away with $400 or
less.  I don't need a pile of advanced features, just 20 MHz, dual
trace, triggered sweep and analog of course.

patchell at silcom.com wrote:
>
>
>Theo wrote:
>
>> Some of those old Heatkits are a don't for synth DIY.
>> They don't do DC!!.
>
>    Of course, if you are really into DIY, it is an oportunity to modify an old
>piece of junk into something useful.  Although, I am not sure if it is worth the
>time.
>
>>
>> However if you're deep into B/W TV, it may be the just the thing you've been
>> looking for. ;^)
>>
>> BTW: I have the full manual & diagrams for the Heatkit IO-18 (one of the
>> most common).
>> Intrested?
>>
>> Cheers Theo
>
>    -Jim
>
>

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue May  9 09:49:41 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:49:41 +0200
Subject: [motm] test -sorry
References: <001301bfb93b$73224ce0$3a38363e@jhaible> <39176315.A5C70B54@tomy.net>
Message-ID: <005b01bfb98b$26f44a80$7338363e@jhaible>

> > Strangely quiet on 2 lists at the same time
> >
> Okay, I'll pipe up. I just finished a MOTM 410 and spent the
> last two hours running a single VCO through the unit and twiddling.
>
> One word; Awesome.

Nice to hear this !

> Now I need to build a preamp to boost a line signal to 10vptp,
> because I've got to run a guitar through this thing. Actually,
> guitar into univibe into 410 into mixer.

I haven't tried a guitar, but I'm running synths (main output,
"line level") directly thru the same circuit as the MOTM 410
without boosting the signal, and I never had noise problems -
one benefit of the optoelectronic filter technology.
So if you want to use the 410 as a stand alone unit (instrument
-> filter -> mixing desk), just try it as it is.

> I noticed when building the unit that it used JRC 4558's. This
> is the chip that supposedly is responsible for the legendary tube
> screamer sound.

I tried a lot of different ones, including some modern Analog
Devices types, but this is what I liked most. It just sounds "right"
in this circuit.

JH.





From blacet at metro.net  Tue May  9 09:54:02 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 07:54:02 +0000
Subject: BBD idea
References: <001301bfb93b$73224ce0$3a38363e@jhaible> <39176315.A5C70B54@tomy.net> <391652EA.C67C6353@concentric.net>
Message-ID: <3917C419.54C0@metro.net>

This is basically what these chips do already. A 4096 stage chip is
actually two 2048 devices in parallel, 180 deg out of phase. A trimmer
connected across the two phased outputs is adjusted to cancel out much
of the clock noise.

When you do the math to figure out clock speeds vs delay times, you use
the 2048 figure. 

A compander is a virtual necessity for BBD devices, unless you enjoy a
lot of hisssssss....
-- 

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
Makers of the Time Machine
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From mitch at sirius.com  Tue May  9 10:25:50 2000
From: mitch at sirius.com (Mitchell Hudson)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 01:25:50 -0700
Subject: VCO Idea
Message-ID: <3917CB8E.4EF34022@sirius.com>

    I have been playing with the breadboard and my Forest Mims books
from radio shack and have made the most glorious display of running LEDs
with a 4017 decade counter and a 555 timer. I must point out to all the
beginning DIYers that a small success is most inspiring! try it.

    So anyway I had the idea that I could feed each of ten outputs
through a pot into a an op-amp and I would have a sequencer! Then I
thought if I ran the timer fast enough maybe this could act as a VCO
with a wave form that could be shaped with these ten pots.

    My question to the group is do you think this is possible? it seems
to me that I would want to make my 555 timer voltage controled at ten
octaves to the volt, assuming that it would take 10 clock pulses to send
the 4017 through one complete cycle.


your comments greatly appreciated
Thanks

--M




From czech at Micronas.Com  Tue May  9 10:42:05 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:42:05 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Chaos Circuit
Message-ID: <200005090842.KAA09763@ikarus.intermetall.de>


:::Of course I know how to solve the rest of the circuits as inverting
:::amps, sum amps and proportional integrators.
::: 

You didn't mention "comparators". The op amp in question is a comparator
with feedback hysteresis. The 10k resistor could be used to isolate
the op amp output from any load, perhaps to fight oscillations.
I don't know.

m.c.




From blacet at metro.net  Tue May  9 15:15:16 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 13:15:16 +0000
Subject: [a100] Blacet Research News
Message-ID: <39180F64.1158@metro.net>

*** News for May 2000 ***

DSC Kit special for 1/4" jack fans: By request, (especially for MOTM
folks), the complete DSC2000 kit less front panel and jacks for $99!
Mount our run away best seller in your large format panel!

Record sales for Blacet: read all about it! 

http://www.blacet.com/news.html

Main Page:
http://www.blacet.com

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html

(Posted to the MOTM list with Paul S's kind permission.)




From patchell at teletrac.com  Tue May  9 15:49:03 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 06:49:03 -0700
Subject: In the market for a scope
References: <54.39c2905.2648d753@aol.com> <00c901bfb96d$dbd35fe0$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <3918174F.3AEEA2DA@silcom.com>



Theo wrote:

> Some of those old Heatkits are a don't for synth DIY.
> They don't do DC!!.

    Of course, if you are really into DIY, it is an oportunity to modify an old
piece of junk into something useful.  Although, I am not sure if it is worth the
time.

>
> However if you're deep into B/W TV, it may be the just the thing you've been
> looking for. ;^)
>
> BTW: I have the full manual & diagrams for the Heatkit IO-18 (one of the
> most common).
> Intrested?
>
> Cheers Theo

    -Jim




From Roel.Das at student.groept.be  Tue May  9 16:07:57 2000
From: Roel.Das at student.groept.be (Roel Das)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:07:57 +0200
Subject: grounding questions...
Message-ID: <00ab01bfb9c0$0d82d280$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>

Hello everyone,

I've got a few grounding questions. The CV inputs of VCO, VCA, etc, should
they default to ground? Or in other words, should I use switched jacks, and
connect the input to ground when not in use? And the same question for audio
inputs?

And one more, if you've got a few modules running from the same power
source, should you connect the grounds at the inputs, and the outputs? This
creates ground loops, right? The best way to handle these things is to use a
differential input, but I don't see that in many modules. Tell me...

Thanks,
Roel






From gendreau at rochester.rr.com  Tue May  9 17:06:19 2000
From: gendreau at rochester.rr.com (Dan Gendreau)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:06:19 -0400
Subject: BBD idea
Message-ID: <000001bfb9c8$21460d20$0400a8c0@dan>

> Forgive me, I'm a digital engineer.
> Larry

All is forgiven my son.
You must say 12 "Bob Moog"s and 2 "Our VCO"s as pennance for your sins.

-Dan "The Analog Viccar" G.  :)



From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Tue May  9 17:18:33 2000
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:18:33 -0700
Subject: Frustrating Day of DIY
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000509081833.00748c74@popserv.ucop.edu>

Hmmm-- sort of like my baby cockatiel Grace, who pretty much lives on my
shoulder -- until it's time to use the logic probe or the soldering iron;
in which case she can't WAIT to climb down to my wrist, shout instructions
at me & try to bite every wire in whatever unit I'm working on.  (A-and at
least a cat won't usually fit INSIDE a synth the way she can ...)



>From: patchell <patchell at teletrac.com>
>To: "synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl" <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: Frustrating Day of DIY
>Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 20:35:40 -0700
>
>     Took a day off from work today to relax and have a round of DIY.  My
>cat seemed to think differently.  Don't get me wrong, I love cats, in
>fact this one is a rescue.  When I am working in my project room
>however, he has to be right there, "helping" me.  His favorite trick is
>to dig through a box of junk and find the little wires, which I then
>have to rescue from him.  I did at least get the circuit working, but
>between the cat and my bad eyesight, it was a rough day.  Everybody at
>work is probably hoping the day off was going to put me in a better
>mood.
>
>-Jim
>



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue May  9 17:51:06 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:51:06 -0700
Subject: [EFM] VCO Idea
References: <3917CB8E.4EF34022@sirius.com>
Message-ID: <008d01bfb9ce$749cd520$0100a8c0@homenet>

This is what I came up with...

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pdf/seq1.pdf

I've got a new one (4017 seq that is)....tiny thing....for 
CAM2

Tom




>     I have been playing with the breadboard and my Forest Mims books
> from radio shack and have made the most glorious display of running LEDs
> with a 4017 decade counter and a 555 timer. I must point out to all the
> beginning DIYers that a small success is most inspiring! try it.
> 
>     So anyway I had the idea that I could feed each of ten outputs
> through a pot into a an op-amp and I would have a sequencer! Then I
> thought if I ran the timer fast enough maybe this could act as a VCO
> with a wave form that could be shaped with these ten pots.
> 
>     My question to the group is do you think this is possible? it seems
> to me that I would want to make my 555 timer voltage controled at ten
> octaves to the volt, assuming that it would take 10 clock pulses to send
> the 4017 through one complete cycle.
> 
> 
> your comments greatly appreciated
> Thanks
> 
> --M
> 




From patchell at teletrac.com  Tue May  9 19:30:14 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 10:30:14 -0700
Subject: Frustrating Day of DIY
References: <3.0.3.32.20000509081833.00748c74@popserv.ucop.edu>
Message-ID: <39184B26.875C6B9A@silcom.com>



Greg Montalbano wrote:

> Hmmm-- sort of like my baby cockatiel Grace, who pretty much lives on my
> shoulder -- until it's time to use the logic probe or the soldering iron;
> in which case she can't WAIT to climb down to my wrist, shout instructions
> at me & try to bite every wire in whatever unit I'm working on.  (A-and at
> least a cat won't usually fit INSIDE a synth the way she can ...)

    You would be surprised what a cat will fit inside.  My first modular I
built, my second cat got inside when he was young, and chewed the wiring up
pretty bad (that was about 15 years ago).  It was a good size box, and he
crawled through a hole in the back that I was going to put a 6 inch speaker
in.   I am only now getting around to repairing the damage.

    -Jim





From chordman at flash.net  Tue May  9 17:45:24 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 17:45:24
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
Message-ID: <200005100044.TAA04324@ogopogo.flash.net>

I haven't seen this one (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)...

One of my favorite things to do with my FatMan is to hold down
a key to play a constant pitch and fiddle with the filter cutoff
freq knob with rez at max.  One can "select" harmonics.  What I
would like to do is to build a very simple device that has 5 to 8
micro switches (perhaps a salvaged keyboard).  These switches
would conduct to a common point, a DC signal from the wiper of a 
pot wired as a voltage divider supplying 0v to max CV.  The CV 
seen at the common point is supplied as the filter's cutoff freq 
CV.  Each key could be "tuned" by pressing it and adjusting it's 
pot.  A sort of human clocked and human programmed analog 
sequencer.  I would think I could then "play" these harmonics.  
The control voltage output of this could probably be used other 
ways as well.

In the real circuit, I'd probably use analogue switches, controlled by
the physical switches.

Does this sound useful to anyone else?

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!






From jimbob at heliconsc.net  Tue May  9 20:30:24 2000
From: jimbob at heliconsc.net (James Damewood)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:30:24 -0400
Subject: Frustrating Day of DIY
References: <3.0.3.32.20000509081833.00748c74@popserv.ucop.edu> <39184B26.875C6B9A@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <003601bfb9e4$a41fe920$b6a2fea9@carol.net>

Do pets make a low impendence path when circuit is powered up?

Jimbob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Patchell" <patchell at teletrac.com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: Frustrating Day of DIY


>
>
> Greg Montalbano wrote:
>
> > Hmmm-- sort of like my baby cockatiel Grace, who pretty much lives on my
> > shoulder -- until it's time to use the logic probe or the soldering
iron;
> > in which case she can't WAIT to climb down to my wrist, shout
instructions
> > at me & try to bite every wire in whatever unit I'm working on.  (A-and
at
> > least a cat won't usually fit INSIDE a synth the way she can ...)
>
>     You would be surprised what a cat will fit inside.  My first modular I
> built, my second cat got inside when he was young, and chewed the wiring
up
> pretty bad (that was about 15 years ago).  It was a good size box, and he
> crawled through a hole in the back that I was going to put a 6 inch
speaker
> in.   I am only now getting around to repairing the damage.
>
>     -Jim
>
>




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Tue May  9 20:31:43 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 19:31:43 +0100
Subject: grounding questions...
References: <00ab01bfb9c0$0d82d280$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>
Message-ID: <005901bfb9e5$258cd860$7535883e@default>

Hi all,

Roel>The CV inputs of VCO, VCA, etc, should they default to ground?

This is what I would recommend, especially for CV pitch inputs to VCOs.
If you use a normalised socket like the Switchcraft 112s, this is a
breeze. However, make sure they ground to the module 0V not the module
casing since this may be at another potential.

I would not ground your module jack lugs by the modules OV supply. I
have a special ground/earth bus for this job only. It only grounds the
socket lug and casing nothing else. This way you get the cables shielded
both ends and no current loops. All the module's OV are star earthed to
main power supply. In my present system both ground types are connected
to the ground of the power supply at the power supply.

You may prefer making the screening ground common to mains earth, or via
a low value resistor/diode combination. See the archives for more on
this. It must be said that in the UK all metal cases/parts that are
touchable by the user have to be directly connected to earth in any
mains powered unit. You could then connect your module 0V to earth via
100R resistor.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm







From chordman at flash.net  Tue May  9 20:26:31 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:26:31
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
Message-ID: <200005100333.WAA02555@chupacabras.flash.net>

That would actually be a very simple mod for a FatMan.
The drawback I see is that you can't tune each note individually,
rather you would have only the voltage intervals that come out of
the pitch CV.

Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>Why not hook up the VCO to a knob... and reroute the Pitch CV to the
>filter ???
>
>Chop Chop Chop !!!!
>
>H^)  harry the x-acto slasher
>
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
>> I haven't seen this one (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)...
>>
>> One of my favorite things to do with my FatMan is to hold down
>> a key to play a constant pitch and fiddle with the filter cutoff
>> freq knob with rez at max.  One can "select" harmonics.  What I
>> would like to do is to build a very simple device that has 5 to 8
>> micro switches (perhaps a salvaged keyboard).  These switches
>> would conduct to a common point, a DC signal from the wiper of a
>> pot wired as a voltage divider supplying 0v to max CV.  The CV
>> seen at the common point is supplied as the filter's cutoff freq
>> CV.  Each key could be "tuned" by pressing it and adjusting it's
>> pot.  A sort of human clocked and human programmed analog
>> sequencer.  I would think I could then "play" these harmonics.
>> The control voltage output of this could probably be used other
>> ways as well.
>>
>> In the real circuit, I'd probably use analogue switches, controlled by
>> the physical switches.
>>
>> Does this sound useful to anyone else?
>>
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>> -- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
>> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>> -- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!
>
>

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From chordman at flash.net  Tue May  9 20:34:06 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:34:06
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
Message-ID: <200005100333.WAA12685@ogopogo.flash.net>

Eirikur Hallgrimsson <eh at mad.scientist.com> wrote:
>This idea has an appealing simplicity to it.  My question is that
>once you have the 'harmonic keyboard' hooked-up, what will be the
>difference between playing it and something less creative like
>overlaying a sine wave patch over a drone.
>
>I'm thinking that the important part of the sound may lie in
>dialing-in the harmonics, not in just getting them by pressing a key.

Yes!


-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From bnillson at hotmail.com  Wed May 10 01:22:22 2000
From: bnillson at hotmail.com (Bjorn Julin)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 23:22:22 GMT
Subject: Frustrating Day of DIY
Message-ID: <20000509232222.75228.qmail@hotmail.com>

Depends if the pet is chewing on the
powersupply cable or not!!

Hmm, wonder if Mr Patchell ever took his pet out of the
modular or not, if he didnt that pet must be really old by now!!

Mind you folks who have rats as pets they really
can chew up the plastic shilding and the copper of the cable!!

BJ


>From: "James Damewood" <
>
>Do pets make a low impendence path when circuit is powered up?
>
>Jimbob
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Patchell" <patchell at teletrac.com>
>To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 1:30 PM
>Subject: Re: Frustrating Day of DIY
>
>
> >
> >
> > Greg Montalbano wrote:
> >
> > > Hmmm-- sort of like my baby cockatiel Grace, who pretty much lives on 
>my
> > > shoulder -- until it's time to use the logic probe or the soldering
>iron;
> > > in which case she can't WAIT to climb down to my wrist, shout
>instructions
> > > at me & try to bite every wire in whatever unit I'm working on.  
>(A-and
>at
> > > least a cat won't usually fit INSIDE a synth the way she can ...)
> >
> >     You would be surprised what a cat will fit inside.  My first modular 
>I
> > built, my second cat got inside when he was young, and chewed the wiring
>up
> > pretty bad (that was about 15 years ago).  It was a good size box, and 
>he
> > crawled through a hole in the back that I was going to put a 6 inch
>speaker
> > in.   I am only now getting around to repairing the damage.
> >
> >     -Jim
> >
> >
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Wed May 10 01:46:01 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob Zero)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:46:01 -0500
Subject: Fw:      Re: SMD Soldering
Message-ID: <000d01bfba10$bd2ab900$2b80fea9@cyborg0>


----- Original Message -----
From: James Newton <jamesnewton at PICLIST.COM>
To: <PICLIST at MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: SMD Soldering[OT]


> I think I have a pretty good page on SMD soldering at
> http://techref.massmind.org/smds
> and I'd love to hear some feedback or notes on what I've missed.
>
> I'm also working on a design for a SX 48/52 adapter than would support the
> direct soldering of either or use a socket for the 52. If there is any
> interest, I can get the board cost down to a point that will be worth
> paying.
>
> ---
> James Newton mailto:jamesnewton at geocities.com 1-619-652-0593
> http://techref.massmind.org
> All the engineering secrets worth knowing
>





From colemanchris at hotmail.com  Wed May 10 03:46:46 2000
From: colemanchris at hotmail.com (chris coleman)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 01:46:46 GMT
Subject: adding pitch to Technics SL-Q200
Message-ID: <20000510014646.82416.qmail@hotmail.com>

Hello gang,

I've been lurking for a long time, and now have a question about modifying a 
soundsource..

Please forgive the debateable relevancy!

Has anybody thought of adding a pitch fader (+/- 10%) to a Technics SL-Q200 
direct drive turntable... (making it suitable for plugging into filters and 
getting more of a variety of sounds!)

THis TT is of the type without any pitch fine-tuning. In fact just the 
opposite, it has a (defeatable) auto-queuing feature, and a 33/45 RPM 
switch..

I'm thinking a place to look would be that 33/45 switch.

Just the same, I'd be grateful if someone who's done this were to share 
their experience!

Chris

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From BonoVox9 at aol.com  Wed May 10 04:32:45 2000
From: BonoVox9 at aol.com (BonoVox9 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:32:45 EDT
Subject: Contact Cleaner
Message-ID: <e6.52a9c71.264a244d@aol.com>

Well, I am on a mission to take my Pro-One apart again and clean all of the 
pots and switches.

When I got it, I took it completely apart and cleaned out all of the dirt and 
large particles of fuzz.

I bought some contact cleaner, made by GC Electronics, called "Spra-Kleen". 
Can anyone tell me if this will damage anything inside of the Pro-One? 
Anything I should watch out for or anything? 

Or should I just use De-Oxit?

The pots have plastic stems, so, I am worried that this cleaner that I have 
might disturb the plastic and mess things up. 

I know that de-oxit would be a better choice for cleaning the keyboard 
contacts, and it would also help clean the keyboard contacts on my Crumar 
Roadrunner. 



From eh at mad.scientist.com  Wed May 10 04:38:36 2000
From: eh at mad.scientist.com (Eirikur Hallgrimsson)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:38:36 -0400
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
In-Reply-To: <200005100044.TAA04324@ogopogo.flash.net>
References: <200005100044.TAA04324@ogopogo.flash.net>
Message-ID: <00050922441600.00797@sal>

This idea has an appealing simplicity to it.  My question is that
once you have the 'harmonic keyboard' hooked-up, what will be the
difference between playing it and something less creative like
overlaying a sine wave patch over a drone.

I'm thinking that the important part of the sound may lie in
dialing-in the harmonics, not in just getting them by pressing a key.
I don't have anything that's quite as analog as a Fatman to try this
on.

On a MIDI analog synth (Fatman doesn't do controllers) you could use
a knob/button box and program the buttons to send appropriate
controller values.  That would be the easiest way to experiment with
this idea.

Let us know what your explorations find!

Eirikur




On Tue, 09 May 2000, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> I haven't seen this one (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)...
> One of my favorite things to do with my FatMan is to hold down
> a key to play a constant pitch and fiddle with the filter cutoff
> freq knob with rez at max.  One can "select" harmonics.2000!!!



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed May 10 04:48:30 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:48:30 -0400
Subject: [EFM] VCO Idea
References: <3917CB8E.4EF34022@sirius.com>
Message-ID: <3918CDFD.71DACF12@prodigy.net>

It is not only possible but has been done before... however the "sonic"
results
may be a little underwhelming.  Every waveform you can draw with a limited
number
of sliders sound a lot like many other waveforms.

I'd look into "Walsh Functions"... there are two excellent sites owned by
fellow
synth-diyers
www.members.xoom.com/_XOOM/Neil_Johnson/walsh.html is one
www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm

Check them out... you can still have sliders but they will give a lot more
sounds...

H^)  harry


Mitchell Hudson wrote:

>     I have been playing with the breadboard and my Forest Mims books
> from radio shack and have made the most glorious display of running LEDs
> with a 4017 decade counter and a 555 timer. I must point out to all the
> beginning DIYers that a small success is most inspiring! try it.
>
>     So anyway I had the idea that I could feed each of ten outputs
> through a pot into a an op-amp and I would have a sequencer! Then I
> thought if I ran the timer fast enough maybe this could act as a VCO
> with a wave form that could be shaped with these ten pots.
>
>     My question to the group is do you think this is possible? it seems
> to me that I would want to make my 555 timer voltage controled at ten
> octaves to the volt, assuming that it would take 10 clock pulses to send
> the 4017 through one complete cycle.
>
> your comments greatly appreciated
> Thanks
>
> --M




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed May 10 04:50:50 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:50:50 -0400
Subject: grounding questions...
References: <00ab01bfb9c0$0d82d280$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>
Message-ID: <3918CE8A.C9B0BDDD@prodigy.net>

What I do is have an internal resistor referenced to ground... then the others
can float...
This is a MUST if you use bananna or pin jacks...

H^) harry

Roel Das wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I've got a few grounding questions. The CV inputs of VCO, VCA, etc, should
> they default to ground? Or in other words, should I use switched jacks, and
> connect the input to ground when not in use? And the same question for audio
> inputs?
>
> And one more, if you've got a few modules running from the same power
> source, should you connect the grounds at the inputs, and the outputs? This
> creates ground loops, right? The best way to handle these things is to use a
> differential input, but I don't see that in many modules. Tell me...
>
> Thanks,
> Roel




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed May 10 04:58:50 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:58:50 -0400
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
References: <200005100044.TAA04324@ogopogo.flash.net>
Message-ID: <3918D069.ADEFB21D@prodigy.net>

Why not hook up the VCO to a knob... and reroute the Pitch CV to the
filter ???

Chop Chop Chop !!!!

H^)  harry the x-acto slasher

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> I haven't seen this one (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)...
>
> One of my favorite things to do with my FatMan is to hold down
> a key to play a constant pitch and fiddle with the filter cutoff
> freq knob with rez at max.  One can "select" harmonics.  What I
> would like to do is to build a very simple device that has 5 to 8
> micro switches (perhaps a salvaged keyboard).  These switches
> would conduct to a common point, a DC signal from the wiper of a
> pot wired as a voltage divider supplying 0v to max CV.  The CV
> seen at the common point is supplied as the filter's cutoff freq
> CV.  Each key could be "tuned" by pressing it and adjusting it's
> pot.  A sort of human clocked and human programmed analog
> sequencer.  I would think I could then "play" these harmonics.
> The control voltage output of this could probably be used other
> ways as well.
>
> In the real circuit, I'd probably use analogue switches, controlled by
> the physical switches.
>
> Does this sound useful to anyone else?
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
> -- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Wed May 10 05:24:03 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:24:03 EDT
Subject: Frustrating Day of DIY
Message-ID: <28.566dbdc.264a3053@aol.com>


James Patchell wrote:

<< You would be surprised what a cat will fit inside.>>

Back in the late 80's, when I was working as a repair tech at J.L. Cooper 
Electronics, a customer brought in a Prophet V in an Anvil flight case, and 
when I opened the case, I saw that all the foam on the inside of the case had 
been seriously ripped to pieces.  Later, I  asked him what happened to the 
foam, and he told me that he had left the case sitting empty and open on his 
bed one day.  Apparently, his cat had stepped into the open case and the lid 
had fallen down, trapping the pitiful feline inside.  The creature reacted, 
as one might expect, by going medieval on the inside of the case, giving it 
everything he could until his owner came and rescued him.

As an aside, I have repaired no less than four different instruments that 
people have brought to me with cat pee damage.  One was a Juno 106 that 
needed an entire new analog board, so bad was the collateral chemical 
carnage.  Interestingly, not all of these customers were ready to admit (or 
believe) that the problem had been caused by their cat.  Nevertheless, that 
smell is unmistakable.  My own three cats (Spartacus, Rundgren, and Sammy) 
know better than to mess with (or in) my gear.  Instead, they destroy 
furniture.

Michael Bacich



From chordman at flash.net  Wed May 10 07:30:26 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:30:26
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
Message-ID: <200005101437.JAA07676@chupacabras.flash.net>

Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the 
pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?

"Curtin, Steven D (Steven)" <sdcurtin at lucent.com> wrote:
>Scott,
>
>This is a great idea with a long heritage (although not in M*DI land).  The
>EML 300 series synth had an optional keyboard that was basically a telephone
>touch pad, with an accompanying pot for each of the keys.  Pressing the key
>sent the voltage out to a CV summer, as well as a S/H.  Likewise I think the
>Buchla sequencer and Serge TKB had accompanying knobs for different outputs
>when different touch switches were pressed.  Go for it!
>
>Steve C
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Steven Curtin  
>Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
>ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
>http://curtin.emf.org
>sdcurtin at lucent.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> ----------
>> From: 	Scott Gravenhorst[SMTP:chordman at flash.net]
>> Reply To: 	chordman at flash.net
>> Sent: 	Tuesday, May 09, 2000 1:45 PM
>> To: 	synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
>> Subject: 	Possibly goofy idea...
>> 
>> I haven't seen this one (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)...
>> 
>> One of my favorite things to do with my FatMan is to hold down
>> a key to play a constant pitch and fiddle with the filter cutoff
>> freq knob with rez at max.  One can "select" harmonics.  What I
>> would like to do is to build a very simple device that has 5 to 8
>> micro switches (perhaps a salvaged keyboard).  These switches
>> would conduct to a common point, a DC signal from the wiper of a 
>> pot wired as a voltage divider supplying 0v to max CV.  The CV 
>> seen at the common point is supplied as the filter's cutoff freq 
>> CV.  Each key could be "tuned" by pressing it and adjusting it's 
>> pot.  A sort of human clocked and human programmed analog 
>> sequencer.  I would think I could then "play" these harmonics.  
>> The control voltage output of this could probably be used other 
>> ways as well.
>> 
>> In the real circuit, I'd probably use analogue switches, controlled by
>> the physical switches.
>> 
>> Does this sound useful to anyone else?
>> 
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>> -- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
>> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>> -- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From john at clutter.globalnet.co.uk  Wed May 10 10:48:31 2000
From: john at clutter.globalnet.co.uk (john tuffen)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:48:31 +0100
Subject: '808 parts.... help my poor gap-toothed TR??!
Message-ID: <E12pdR1-0003nA-00@cobalt9-fe.global.net.uk>

I posted this before, but I have (stupid stupid stupid) lost the replies
that I got....

I have a beaten-up 808 which is missing some of the 'hinge' parts that sit
below the funky coloured buttons. Roland UK have told me that these are not
available.... Anyone got any spare? (they're the stupid flimsy
black-plastic things). I *need* 4, but  could probably do with a complete
set :)

If Roland outlets in another country have them, then I will gladly cover
costs etc. (I could bung in some 'elektronika' CDs - see below) if only I
could restore my rather shabby 808!!!

[Now this one *is* a long shot - anyone got a decent looking 808 front
panel/case knocking around? Mine is *really* battered!]


john..

email:	john at clutter.globalnet.co.uk
music:	http://listen.to/dktr_t
label:	http://listen.to/elektronika





From efm3 at mediaone.net  Wed May 10 13:39:26 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 04:39:26 -0700
Subject: eml101 vcf
Message-ID: <000701bfba74$66d87e20$0100a8c0@homenet>

Ok next time you want to build a filter and there are no
13600s for sale....you can build this one.

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pdf/eml101.pdf

This is from the original drawing by marjan. I have done my usual
and stripped down to the bare essence of the filter Making it as
easy to build as I could. It's so cheap! and it does actually sound
pretty damm good to boot.

Thanks again Marjan....I know I owe you an email...;-)

Tom





From debus at cityweb.de  Wed May 10 15:25:58 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 15:25:58 +0200
Subject: grounding questions...
References: <00ab01bfb9c0$0d82d280$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org> <005901bfb9e5$258cd860$7535883e@default>
Message-ID: <39196365.96B17162@cityweb.de>



Tony Allgood wrote:
>It must be said that in the UK all metal cases/parts that are
> touchable by the user have to be directly connected to earth in any
> mains powered unit.

What about the tip of a phone jack (when the other end of the cable is
plugged into a mains powered unit)?

;-)

Ingo




From sdcurtin at lucent.com  Wed May 10 16:07:28 2000
From: sdcurtin at lucent.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:07:28 -0400
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
Message-ID: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1D76@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com>

Scott,

This is a great idea with a long heritage (although not in M*DI land).  The
EML 300 series synth had an optional keyboard that was basically a telephone
touch pad, with an accompanying pot for each of the keys.  Pressing the key
sent the voltage out to a CV summer, as well as a S/H.  Likewise I think the
Buchla sequencer and Serge TKB had accompanying knobs for different outputs
when different touch switches were pressed.  Go for it!

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at lucent.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	Scott Gravenhorst[SMTP:chordman at flash.net]
> Reply To: 	chordman at flash.net
> Sent: 	Tuesday, May 09, 2000 1:45 PM
> To: 	synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: 	Possibly goofy idea...
> 
> I haven't seen this one (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)...
> 
> One of my favorite things to do with my FatMan is to hold down
> a key to play a constant pitch and fiddle with the filter cutoff
> freq knob with rez at max.  One can "select" harmonics.  What I
> would like to do is to build a very simple device that has 5 to 8
> micro switches (perhaps a salvaged keyboard).  These switches
> would conduct to a common point, a DC signal from the wiper of a 
> pot wired as a voltage divider supplying 0v to max CV.  The CV 
> seen at the common point is supplied as the filter's cutoff freq 
> CV.  Each key could be "tuned" by pressing it and adjusting it's 
> pot.  A sort of human clocked and human programmed analog 
> sequencer.  I would think I could then "play" these harmonics.  
> The control voltage output of this could probably be used other 
> ways as well.
> 
> In the real circuit, I'd probably use analogue switches, controlled by
> the physical switches.
> 
> Does this sound useful to anyone else?
> 
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
> -- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!
> 
> 
> 



From gendreau at rochester.rr.com  Wed May 10 17:23:04 2000
From: gendreau at rochester.rr.com (Dan Gendreau)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:23:04 -0400
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
In-Reply-To: <200005100044.TAA04324@ogopogo.flash.net>
Message-ID: <000301bfba93$a2bb5c90$0400a8c0@dan>

> I haven't seen this one (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)...
>From what you describe, I believe the Roland SH-101 does part of this. The
only thing it wont allow you to do is control the VCO from a separate
source...

The SH101 allows you to route some amount(0-100%) of the Keyboard CV into
the filter cutoff CV. When it is set to 100% KCV->VCF Cutoff and you turn
off the VCOs and put the VCF Resonance into self oscillation you get a sine
wave oscillator that tracks the pitch of the keyboard.

I wouldnt bother creating a custom keypad for this. You should be able to
just take a standard analog keyboard or Midi/CV source and route the pitch
CV into your Fatman Filter Cutoff CV.

Just a thought,
-Dan G.






From colemanchris at hotmail.com  Wed May 10 17:37:26 2000
From: colemanchris at hotmail.com (chris coleman)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 15:37:26 GMT
Subject: adding pitch to Technics SL-Q200
Message-ID: <20000510153726.4710.qmail@hotmail.com>


Yes, I'm trying to make it more SL-1200'ish.

Last time I looked, if I recall properly, the SL-Q200 had a label on it 
saying "Quartz locked"...

We're (probably) in luck then, huh !


At 11:28 AM 5/10/2000 -0400, Dan Gendreau wrote:
=====================
Its possible you can add pitch control, but not likely to be very accurate.
The speed may drift on you.

If you are trying to convert your Q200 into an SL-1200 your probably out of
luck. The 1200s use a quartz lock mechanism to keep the tables turning at a
specific speed and I doubt the Q200 has those electronics present.

-Dan G.

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed May 10 19:03:03 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:03:03 +0200
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
References: <000301bfba93$a2bb5c90$0400a8c0@dan>
Message-ID: <005e01bfbaa1$9b305440$0400a8c0@Theo>

That is not realy a special fearure of the SH101.
It works with anny synt that has self occilating filters and the capability
to route KV to cutoff.
(setting keyboard tracking to 100% is a work around to do this on a non
patcheble instrument)
The result is that the filter works as a sinus VCO.

While most VCO only "read" the CV once pro period (a ramp crossing a
tresshold set by CV)
a VCF acting as a sine VCO continously follows CV.
Just what you need to do DX style FM.
A normal VCO can be the modulator, the VCF the carrier.

O'cause this works only if you can patch both KV and VCO output to filter
cutoff.
Best route the VCO thru a VCA first.

Cheers Theo.


----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Gendreau <gendreau at rochester.rr.com>
To: <chordman at flash.net>; synthDIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:23 PM
Subject: RE: Possibly goofy idea...


> > I haven't seen this one (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)...
> From what you describe, I believe the Roland SH-101 does part of this. The
> only thing it wont allow you to do is control the VCO from a separate
> source...
>
> The SH101 allows you to route some amount(0-100%) of the Keyboard CV into
> the filter cutoff CV. When it is set to 100% KCV->VCF Cutoff and you turn
> off the VCOs and put the VCF Resonance into self oscillation you get a
sine
> wave oscillator that tracks the pitch of the keyboard.
>
> I wouldnt bother creating a custom keypad for this. You should be able to
> just take a standard analog keyboard or Midi/CV source and route the pitch
> CV into your Fatman Filter Cutoff CV.
>
> Just a thought,
> -Dan G.
>
>
>




From indridcold at usa.net  Wed May 10 19:23:22 2000
From: indridcold at usa.net (M.Ruberto)
Date: 10 May 00 13:23:22 EDT
Subject: [Possibly goofy idea...]
Message-ID: <20000510172322.15090.qmail@nw179.netaddress.usa.net>

what would be an interesting project in addition to this, although much more
complex, would be a keyboard (possibly touch) where each key plays a sequence
while you hold it down. i was thinking it could be done using a dual 8 channel
multiplex device for each pair of keys. the 8 ch. multiplex device has a 3 bit
address which consists of simply sending it the binary # of the channel you
want to close. this would make it very simple to incorporate such functions as
backward/forward and random note sequence playback. all output CVs could be
summed for control of a single VCO or VCF in addition to having normalled
jacks for each channel/key for control of several modules. 8 channels per key
would mean quite a large # of pots and circuitry so i don't think this would
be reasonable for a full keyboard but with good design an 8 key controller is
concievable. also, the cost involved in buying 4 multiplexers and 64 pots
might be prohibitive to some. i guess the inspiration for this comes from
recently playing with my friends Serge. actually, it just might be illegal to
have the amount of fun this sort of device would permit 8-)

-<mike>-


Scott Gravenhorst <chordman at flash.net> wrote:
> I haven't seen this one (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist)...
> 
> One of my favorite things to do with my FatMan is to hold down
> a key to play a constant pitch and fiddle with the filter cutoff
> freq knob with rez at max.  One can "select" harmonics.  What I
> would like to do is to build a very simple device that has 5 to 8
> micro switches (perhaps a salvaged keyboard).  These switches
> would conduct to a common point, a DC signal from the wiper of a 
> pot wired as a voltage divider supplying 0v to max CV.  The CV 
> seen at the common point is supplied as the filter's cutoff freq 
> CV.  Each key could be "tuned" by pressing it and adjusting it's 
> pot.  A sort of human clocked and human programmed analog 
> sequencer.  I would think I could then "play" these harmonics.  
> The control voltage output of this could probably be used other 
> ways as well.
> 
> In the real circuit, I'd probably use analogue switches, controlled by
> the physical switches.
> 
> Does this sound useful to anyone else?
> 
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
> -- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!
> 
> 


____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1



From n0nspaz at loa.com  Wed May 10 20:52:27 2000
From: n0nspaz at loa.com (mark scetta)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:52:27 -0400
Subject: lm301 replacement?
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000510145142.00c87a50@mail.loa.com>

can anyone recommend a replacement for the lm301?  anyone know where i can 
get a data sheet for the pinouts too??

thanks
mark




From sdcurtin at lucent.com  Wed May 10 21:22:55 2000
From: sdcurtin at lucent.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 15:22:55 -0400
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
Message-ID: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1D87@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com>

I had a lot of trouble getting touch switches to work, it would be great if
PAiA had a touch switch experimenter's kit which is just the touch switch
array from the programmable drum set with logic outputs.

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at lucent.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	tomg[SMTP:efm3 at mediaone.net]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:58 PM
> To: 	synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl; chordman at flash.net
> Subject: 	Re: Possibly goofy idea...
> 
> Hi Scott, paia made a programmable drum machine that used
> these things. and if I remember they were just etched into the
> board and the lacquered. I've got it around here somewhere
> on paper. Maybe Anders has a pdf. Let me know if you 
> can't find it and I'll warm up the scanner.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> > Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
> > work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
> > ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the 
> > pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?
> > 
> 
> 



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Wed May 10 21:23:40 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 15:23:40 EDT
Subject: lm301 replacement?
Message-ID: <37.4fc5cd4.264b113c@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/10/00 10:54:06 AM, you wrote:

<<can anyone recommend a replacement for the lm301?  anyone know where i can 
get a data sheet for the pinouts too??>>

Unlike almost all opf the other currently available opamps, the LM301 is a 
uncompensated amp.  So, if you're trying to replace one in an existing 
circuit (or trying to clone a circuit that uses one), it's probably important 
to not try to substitute another opamp type.

I think that National is still making LM301's, and I usually buy them from 
Jameco.  Most electronic part stores carry Jameco's "Jim-Pak" line of parts, 
and I think the LM301 is in that series.  If you're having trouble finding 
one, you could also use one of the NTE substitute parts.  They have an 
uncompensated LM301 substitute called NTE975, which is the 8-pin DIP package, 
and the NTE1171, which substitutes for the metal can package.  The NTE parts 
will be a bit more expensive than the originals (and sometimes not quite up 
to the same quality level, unfortunately).

There may indeed be other uncompensated opamps still available out there, but 
I don't know what their part numbers are.  A lot of ARP circuits were 
designed around the LM301, and depend on its characteristics to operate 
correctly (and to sound right), so it's best to stick with what's been tried 
and true.

Michael Bacich



From skin_job at hotmail.com  Wed May 10 21:52:54 2000
From: skin_job at hotmail.com (skinny bastard)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:52:54 GMT
Subject: moog prodigy mod wheels
Message-ID: <20000510195254.34817.qmail@hotmail.com>

Hey, I've got a couple of MOOG Prodigy mod wheels that I am attempting to 
wire into a custom analog controller keyboard. My question is, does anyone 
know which colored wires do what. Couldn't find any manuals on this. If I'm 
not mistaken, the mini-moog uses the same wheels.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From RevTor at aol.com  Wed May 10 21:58:14 2000
From: RevTor at aol.com (RevTor at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 15:58:14 EDT
Subject: re.  goofy idea
Message-ID: <99.4a12b09.264b1956@aol.com>

On the one key for each 8 step sequence idea..  
My JP8000 has this incorporated into its arpeggiator.  RPS lets you program 
each key to playback whatever sequence of note syou play and it quantizes 
too.  Im not sure what the max number of notes per key is, but it does come 
in handy when you want a repetitive bassline and two hands free to play a 
lead line and tweak it out with the other..
aaaah, I love my JP8k
~Steve



From Roel.Das at student.groept.be  Wed May 10 22:11:51 2000
From: Roel.Das at student.groept.be (Roel Das)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:11:51 +0200
Subject: power source question
Message-ID: <004c01bfbabb$fc58ec40$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>

Hello everyone,

I'm building a power source for my midi CV. It should have -15V, +15V, +5V,
and seperate dig and analog ground. (They meet at the groundplane under the
DAC.) Which is the easiest way of doing this? It runs from 1 wall wart, 18V
AC. (Is this enough?) (Now it's actually running from 15VAC, but I've seen
alot of articles that say this ain't good...)(And probably it isn't...)

Anyone got a schematic of the perfect power source near? What I had in mind
is just 4 diodes (1N4007),resistors and caps, 7815 and 7915, and more
caps...
The digital part would be the same, but with just 1 diode.

Is there a way to use the regulated +15V as input for the 7805, and still
keeping the grounds seperated? For example, by putting a resistor between
the 2 grounds or something?

Thanks!
Roel

PS: the final version of my text is finally available at my webpage. I won't
be updating the page until July, when I'll translate the text to English,
and put some of my home made stuff on the site... Pictures and everything...






From Roel.Das at student.groept.be  Wed May 10 22:22:45 2000
From: Roel.Das at student.groept.be (Roel Das)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:22:45 +0200
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
References: <200005101437.JAA07676@chupacabras.flash.net> <002d01bfbaca$e7d7c160$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <005801bfbabd$842892a0$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>

Scott, Tom and others,

The schematic + info are available from paia's site... Even an idea for a
Pressure (Velocity) sensitive version!
http://www.paia.com/touchsw.htm

Roel

PS: Tom, could you send me the links to the cam projects pdf's (from last
week) again? Accidently erased them...

> Hi Scott, paia made a programmable drum machine that used
> these things. and if I remember they were just etched into the
> board and the lacquered. I've got it around here somewhere
> on paper. Maybe Anders has a pdf. Let me know if you
> can't find it and I'll warm up the scanner.
>
> Tom
>
>
> > Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
> > work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
> > ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the
> > pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?
> >
>
>
>




From sdcurtin at lucent.com  Wed May 10 22:34:49 2000
From: sdcurtin at lucent.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:34:49 -0400
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
Message-ID: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1D8C@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com>

I tried the circuits on that page and couldn't get them to work, at least on
a protoboard.   Maybe I'm too much of a digital guy :).   This is why an
experimenter's kit with a working circuit board of these things, with the
pads right on the board, would be a great thing (hint, hint).

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at lucent.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	Ren? Schmitz[SMTP:uzs159 at uni-bonn.de]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4:40 PM
> To: 	chordman at flash.net; synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: 	RE: Possibly goofy idea...
> 
> At 07:30 10.05.00, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> >Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
> >work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
> >ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the 
> >pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?
> 
> Hi Scott!
> 
> The relevant link here is: http://www.paia.com/touchsw.htm
> I haven't tried it, if you do let us all know.
> 
> Bye,
>  Ren?
> 
> 
> transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
> isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
> obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz
> 



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Wed May 10 22:40:23 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:40:23 +0200
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
In-Reply-To: <200005101437.JAA07676@chupacabras.flash.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000510224023.009375a0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 07:30 10.05.00, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
>work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
>ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the 
>pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?

Hi Scott!

The relevant link here is: http://www.paia.com/touchsw.htm
I haven't tried it, if you do let us all know.

Bye,
 Ren?


transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Wed May 10 23:58:40 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:58:40 -0700
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
References: <200005101437.JAA07676@chupacabras.flash.net>
Message-ID: <002d01bfbaca$e7d7c160$0100a8c0@homenet>

Hi Scott, paia made a programmable drum machine that used
these things. and if I remember they were just etched into the
board and the lacquered. I've got it around here somewhere
on paper. Maybe Anders has a pdf. Let me know if you 
can't find it and I'll warm up the scanner.

Tom


> Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
> work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
> ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the 
> pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?
> 





From patchell at teletrac.com  Thu May 11 01:55:37 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:55:37 -0700
Subject: MiniModular is Here!
Message-ID: <3919F6F9.E7CB7D31@silcom.com>

    I just got my Mini Modular from Chris.  The panel looks fantastic.
If I am lucky, I can have this thing built in a couple of weeks.

    -Jim


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu May 11 01:58:28 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:58:28 -0700
Subject: tranny pairs
Message-ID: <006d01bfbadb$a49cb200$0100a8c0@homenet>

I have secured a source for the 2SC1583 NPN pair they are $0.85 ea.
I also have the 2SA798 PNP pair they are also $0.85 ea.  Let's say
a minimum of 5 pieces to make the trip to the post office worth it. As I 
can now get them reliably I am going to start using these in everything. 

They are not "Super" transistors they are however matched monolithic
pairs and usually more than adequate for synth design. I like the pin
out a lot! It's B-C-E-C-B inline.

Tom





From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Thu May 11 02:31:08 2000
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:31:08 -0600
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
References: <200005101437.JAA07676@chupacabras.flash.net>
Message-ID: <000c01bfbae0$3551d7e0$70ab183f@celery>

Here are a couple of sites with info on touch switches.

  Ian

http://windsynth.org/iwsa_labs/non_commercial_controllers/Elect-RO-Clar/

http://home.earthlink.net/~ijfritz/



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Gravenhorst" <chordman at flash.net>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 7:30 AM
Subject: RE: Possibly goofy idea...


> Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
> work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
> ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the 
> pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?
> 





From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May 11 03:31:57 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:31:57 +1000
Subject: Patent violations?!
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000511013157.00e28320@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 12:18 PM 11/05/00 -0700, you wrote:
>I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic
Musician in
>1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter 

Can you remember the date on the AExiter patent?
Maybe we cd all go into production on the date it lapses!

And, what was the actual claim of the patent?
A friend did some work building a version of this & concluded that the 
key, in a practical sense, was in recombining the distorted & original
signals so 
that there was no cancellation. Which requires some tricky phase shifting.
But, if it is done in DSP, it is much easier.
Although as Jules showed, you can get something useful for $10.

paul perry melbournhe australia 
BTW since in Western law the opposing parties are supported by two lawyers
each of whom say the law supports their own side, the sum knowledge of
lawyers is zero. 




From skin_job at hotmail.com  Thu May 11 03:55:17 2000
From: skin_job at hotmail.com (skinny bastard)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 01:55:17 GMT
Subject: roland 181, 182, 184 analog controller keyboard
Message-ID: <20000511015517.71667.qmail@hotmail.com>

anyone have the schematics on these puppies?
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu May 11 05:31:02 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:31:02 -0400
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
References: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1D8C@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com>
Message-ID: <391A2976.9680D8BA@prodigy.net>

Protoboard... one of those pluggy - holey things... experimenter's
breadboard...?

Its not you... why should a circuit like that work on a protoboard... Human
capacitance
is probably only 5-20pF (I haven't seen the circuit... maybe its just skin
resistance...but..)
With careful layout on a real board it might work. I haven't tried the PAiA
circuit. I'm sure
you can make the touch switch work... whether its worth all the circuit you need
is another story.

Remember... "Proto Boards SvcK !!!"

did I forget anything ??? OH YEAH....

"BBD's TOO !!!"

LOL

H^)

"Curtin, Steven D (Steven)" wrote:

> I tried the circuits on that page and couldn't get them to work, at least on
> a protoboard.   Maybe I'm too much of a digital guy :).   This is why an
> experimenter's kit with a working circuit board of these things, with the
> pads right on the board, would be a great thing (hint, hint).
>
> Steve C
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Steven Curtin
> Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
> ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
> http://curtin.emf.org
> sdcurtin at lucent.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > ----------
> > From:         Ren? Schmitz[SMTP:uzs159 at uni-bonn.de]
> > Sent:         Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4:40 PM
> > To:   chordman at flash.net; synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> > Subject:      RE: Possibly goofy idea...
> >
> > At 07:30 10.05.00, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> > >Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
> > >work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
> > >ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the
> > >pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?
> >
> > Hi Scott!
> >
> > The relevant link here is: http://www.paia.com/touchsw.htm
> > I haven't tried it, if you do let us all know.
> >
> > Bye,
> >  Ren?
> >
> >
> > transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
> > isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
> > obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz
> >




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu May 11 05:33:07 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:33:07 -0400
Subject: MiniModular is Here!
References: <3919F6F9.E7CB7D31@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <391A29F2.EEBE2FA3@prodigy.net>

No SH!T..

so did I... (Chris... you slut I thought I was the only one....)

And MY panel looks fantastic too...
Did you buy parts yet ? Maybe we should race ???

H^)

patchell wrote:

>     I just got my Mini Modular from Chris.  The panel looks fantastic.
> If I am lucky, I can have this thing built in a couple of weeks.
>
>     -Jim
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------




From anders.sponton at swipnet.se  Thu May 11 07:41:48 2000
From: anders.sponton at swipnet.se (Anders Sponton)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:41:48 +0200
Subject: roland 181, 182, 184 analog controller keyboard
References: <20000511015517.71667.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <391A481C.589D655E@swipnet.se>

skinny bastard wrote:
> 
> anyone have the schematics on these puppies?
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
I?ve got the service manual for the 184. Do you want me to put it up ? 

Anders, Sweden



From anders.sponton at swipnet.se  Thu May 11 07:43:17 2000
From: anders.sponton at swipnet.se (Anders Sponton)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:43:17 +0200
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
References: <200005101437.JAA07676@chupacabras.flash.net> <002d01bfbaca$e7d7c160$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <391A4875.43ED1598@swipnet.se>

tomg wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott, paia made a programmable drum machine that used

I got the whole story. I?ll put it up asap.

Anders, Sweden



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Thu May 11 09:20:02 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 03:20:02 EDT
Subject: roland 181, 182, 184 analog controller keyboard
Message-ID: <d.4af3be4.264bb922@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/10/00 5:58:10 PM, you wrote:

<<anyone have the schematics on these puppies?>>

It would appear, judging by your earlier message, that you are in the process 
of building a CV controller keyboard.  In this case, the schematics for the 
top-of-the-line model 184 will not likely do you much good, since it uses a 
custom-programmed MPU chip that is no longer available from Roland.  This 
chip scans the keyboard matrix and sends the proper bytes to a simple DAC, 
from which the CV is then multiplexed to four different CV outputs.  The MPU 
has its ROM built in, and I'm not sure there would be any way of downloading 
the internal ROM contents (for copying into an EPROM).  

If anyone knows a method for doing such a thing, I would like to hear how it 
would be done.  Then, for instance, we could clone a bunch of obsolete Roland 
and Korg MPU's, at least for the purpose of keeping some of those classics 
running, if not for the purpose of building our own new ones from scratch.  
Some other models that have such internal ROM MPU's are:  TB303, TR606, 
TR808, Jupiter 4, Korg Poly 6, Mono/Poly, Trident MkII, etc.

Getting back to the 181/182/184 keyboards, you'll be able to build a copy of 
the 181 or 182, since they use garden-variety parts that you can still buy.  
No 4-voice polyphony and arpeggiator, though...

Michael Bacich



From anders.sponton at swipnet.se  Thu May 11 09:40:27 2000
From: anders.sponton at swipnet.se (Anders Sponton)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:40:27 +0200
Subject: PAiA Programmable Drum Set
Message-ID: <391A63EB.844AC55B@swipnet.se>

Sorry !
I wasn?t quite fresh this morning. The PAiA PDS is already up there.
(Under "Sundries".

Anders, Sweden



From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Thu May 11 10:17:50 2000
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:17:50 +0200
Subject: tranny pairs
References: <006d01bfbadb$a49cb200$0100a8c0@homenet> <391AA2FF.64C373D2@zoo.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <391A6CAE.1060740A@eunet.yu>

> Just out of curiosity, exactly how does one go about matching transistors.

You want best match for Vbe @ Ic=const, preferably for 2-3 values
of Ic (but often only one is performed)
see moog's matching cct (I think it's at sdiy page)

> I thinking about building an OB-1 Phase Shifter, I think that's what it's
> called, and it asks for matched pairs.  How no you do it?

Here you need matched FETs not plain bipolar transistors. You can find
nice cct at www.geofex.com under FX schematics for matching FETs in
mxr type phasers. What it does is that you bias gate of FET with
some DC corresponding to max voltage it would get by say modulating
lfo (meaning if you have lfo amplitude 2V youll bias id with dc 2V)
and you measure Vds on each FET finding best match (they work here
as variable resistors in voltage divider so you can measure
voltage instead resistance, it'll ensure that all FETs at max peak
of lfo have the same resistance which is essential for phaser to
work right).


marjan



From neil.johnson at camcon.co.uk  Thu May 11 11:25:11 2000
From: neil.johnson at camcon.co.uk (neil.johnson at camcon.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:25:11 +0100
Subject: grounding questions...
Message-ID: <802568DC.00334614.00@CambridgeUk-G01.camcon.co.uk>



In the UK ......

If a device is "double-insulated" then external metal parts do not have to be
earthed.  For example, the Roland MKS-70 (brushed aluminium front panel) only
has a two-wire connection to the mains.  The Yamaha SY77 (wide front panel, all
metal) only has a two-wire mains lead because it is double-insulated.

Double-insulation adds an extra insulation layer between the mains and the
outside world, so no protective earth is required.  In single-insulated
equipment the earth is provided only to carry the fault current before the fuse
or trip breaks, and thats all.  For large electrical installations the earth
wire can be smaller than the main conductors because it only has to carry fault
current just long enough for the fuse to blow.

As for reduction of noise, that's another issue.

Neil
------





From blacet at metro.net  Thu May 11 12:06:53 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:06:53 +0000
Subject: Patent violations?!
References: <3.0.5.32.20000511193137.008b2560@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <391A863C.7ED3@metro.net>

IMHO: 20 years is the patent duration. (From Filing Date, I believe...)

Patents are in the public domain as far as reproduction is concerned.
I'm not sure what trouble you would get in by publishing a circuit
derived from an active patent. Typically, if the patent holder notices
this, they may issue a warning that the commercial use of the circuit
may violate their patent rights. 

The key to understanding patents is that USE is protected, not the
information. OTOH, Trade Secret laws cover the public disclosure of
information. You would have had to sign a NDA or illegally aquired such
information to be in trouble in this case, however.

I'm not a lawyer and this advice should be taken as personal opinion
only.

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May 11 13:10:10 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:10:10 +1000
Subject: Patent violations?!
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000511111010.00e41d58@popa.melbpc.org.au>

http://www.audiotron.no/pro/aphex/patenter.htm

is a list of the Aphex patents, found this thru
Google by searching on the # Tom gave..

Looks like we should hold a birthday party for the first one!

paul perry melb australia




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu May 11 13:29:26 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 04:29:26 -0700
Subject: more hybrid OTA filters
Message-ID: <000701bfbb3c$2c9bc0a0$0100a8c0@homenet>

Someone asked how to use the hybrid-OTA to build a MS20
filter......

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pdf/vcf8h.pdf

It might be hard to believe but this sounds very good.

Tom





From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu May 11 13:32:33 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 04:32:33 -0700
Subject: PAiA Programmable Drum Set
References: <391A63EB.844AC55B@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <002201bfbb3c$9a3ec4e0$0100a8c0@homenet>

I should have known that...as much leeching as I do at your place..;-)
As always thanks for what you do.

Tom


> Sorry !
> I wasn?t quite fresh this morning. The PAiA PDS is already up there.
> (Under "Sundries".
>
> Anders, Sweden




From rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu  Thu May 11 14:09:36 2000
From: rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu (Rob Rickner)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:09:36 -0400
Subject: tranny pairs
References: <006d01bfbadb$a49cb200$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <391AA2FF.64C373D2@zoo.uvm.edu>

Just out of curiosity, exactly how does one go about matching transistors.
I thinking about building an OB-1 Phase Shifter, I think that's what it's
called, and it asks for matched pairs.  How no you do it?
Rob

tomg wrote:

> I have secured a source for the 2SC1583 NPN pair they are $0.85 ea.
> I also have the 2SA798 PNP pair they are also $0.85 ea.  Let's say
> a minimum of 5 pieces to make the trip to the post office worth it. As I
> can now get them reliably I am going to start using these in everything.
>
> They are not "Super" transistors they are however matched monolithic
> pairs and usually more than adequate for synth design. I like the pin
> out a lot! It's B-C-E-C-B inline.
>
> Tom




From rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu  Thu May 11 15:06:54 2000
From: rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu (Rob Rickner)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:06:54 -0400
Subject: VCA overdrive
Message-ID: <391AB06E.34DDFEF7@zoo.uvm.edu>

I was looking at the JH-VCA/Inverter/Overdrive and the oakley "basic"
VCA and they seem to be rather similar, how hard would it be to create a
VCA ,OD mod for the oakley VCA?  How would this be done?
Rob Rickner




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Thu May 11 15:16:17 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:16:17 +0100
Subject: grounding questions...
References: <802568DC.00334614.00@CambridgeUk-G01.camcon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <004c01bfbb4e$50da7300$0c26883e@default>

Hi all,

NJ>Double-insulation adds an extra insulation layer between the mains
and the outside world, so no protective earth is required.

This is true, but for DIY use I would have thought for metal cases with
an internal power supply a earth is to be recommended. Most of the metal
clad two-wire mains stuff has an internal plastic chassis, hence the
double insulated label. Although, I think we can get away with the
double insulated criteria if we use a ready made wallwart for our diy
designs.

On the same point, some local councils require a 'PAT PASSED' sticker on
the back of all mains powered stuff. This is the safety test that all
(good) repair shops are required to do by law before passing the
reapired goods back to the customer. This can apply to the music
equipment of bands wanting to play at a public venue. The distinction
between class 1 and 2 on DIY stuff may be hard to explain.

However, you can buy PAT stickers from Farnell, Maplin etc. :-)

Interesting point about the tip of jack plug which is plugged into
anything mains powered... although the real problem comes from speaker
leads.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm







From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Thu May 11 15:18:18 2000
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:18:18 -0600
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
References: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1D8C@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com> <391A2976.9680D8BA@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <004101bfbb4b$62405db0$fcab183f@celery>

Harry --

I didn't have much trouble demonstrating touch switches on my whiteboard.
Body capacitance is more like 200-300 pF.

  Ian


----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Bissell" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>

> Protoboard... one of those pluggy - holey things... experimenter's
> breadboard...?
>
> Its not you... why should a circuit like that work on a protoboard...
Human
> capacitance
> is probably only 5-20pF (I haven't seen the circuit... maybe its just skin
> resistance...but..)
> With careful layout on a real board it might work. I haven't tried the
PAiA
> circuit. I'm sure
> you can make the touch switch work... whether its worth all the circuit
you need
> is another story.





From patchell at teletrac.com  Thu May 11 15:42:37 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 06:42:37 -0700
Subject: MiniModular is Here!
References: <3919F6F9.E7CB7D31@silcom.com> <391A29F2.EEBE2FA3@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <391AB8CD.9FAE7A4D@silcom.com>



Harry Bissell wrote:

> No SH!T..
>

    I hope not...

>
> so did I... (Chris... you slut I thought I was the only one....)
>
> And MY panel looks fantastic too...
> Did you buy parts yet ? Maybe we should race ???
>

    I am going to start placing the orders today.  I am afraid you would
probably win.  I have to go to an NMRA (model railroad)  regional (or is
that a divisional) on saturday (my hobbies keep getting in each others way).

>
> H^)
>
> patchell wrote:
>
> >     I just got my Mini Modular from Chris.  The panel looks fantastic.
> > If I am lucky, I can have this thing built in a couple of weeks.
> >
> >     -Jim
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------




From skin_job at hotmail.com  Thu May 11 15:52:02 2000
From: skin_job at hotmail.com (skinny bastard)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:52:02 GMT
Subject: roland 181, 182, 184 analog controller keyboard
Message-ID: <20000511135202.26354.qmail@hotmail.com>

Well then I guess I'm looking for the service manuals on the 181, 182.
I do currently have a pcb from TOMG's electronics for music, to create a 
gate and c/v current, but I have incomplete info on it. I am perfectly 
capable of putting this whole project together, but the PCB has holes 
labelled a thru p, which would lead to wires going to the potentiometers and 
jacks. The support files have no info at to what connects to each of these. 
I have managed to figure out some, but that's not enough to cut it. If 
anyone has info on this, please let me know.

>From: Anders Sponton <anders.sponton at swipnet.se>
>To: skinny bastard <skin_job at hotmail.com>
>CC: "synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl" <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: Re: roland 181, 182, 184 analog controller keyboard
>Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:41:48 +0200
>
>skinny bastard wrote:
> >
> > anyone have the schematics on these puppies?
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>I?ve got the service manual for the 184. Do you want me to put it up ?
>
>Anders, Sweden

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From patchell at teletrac.com  Thu May 11 15:56:11 2000
From: patchell at teletrac.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 06:56:11 -0700
Subject: MAT04
Message-ID: <391ABBFB.DD2CE65B@silcom.com>

    This is to let everybody know who might be interested that I just
got an EMAIL from Analog Devices notifying me that the MAT04's have been
shipped.  These will be availiable to members of this list at cost.
Until I get the invoice, I am not sure how much that will be, I estimate
somewhere around $4.00 each.

    -Jim




From gendreau at rochester.rr.com  Thu May 11 18:58:53 2000
From: gendreau at rochester.rr.com (Dan Gendreau)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:58:53 -0400
Subject: '808 parts.... help my poor gap-toothed TR??!
In-Reply-To: <E12pdR1-0003nA-00@cobalt9-fe.global.net.uk>
Message-ID: <000101bfbb6a$2fbb6140$0400a8c0@dan>

Heh, you and me both!

I Bought a busted 808 for $250 a month ago and I am in the process of
restoring it. I managed to get it working in about an hour! My 808 is
working great now, but it still needs a lot of TLC. Here is what I have
found so far:

- I was lucky enough to find an old CR8000 for $40. It has the exact same
knob caps, screws and many other components as the TR808.

- I found an exact replacement A/AB/B toggle switch in the Mouser catalog.
Its Part #10TS003 by Mountain Switch. Page 282 Item 'L' in the current
catalog.

- The [Start/Stop] and [Tap] keys were quite yellowed on mine, but I managed
to carefully pry the button caps off, wash them and replace the paper labels
with new laser printed ones. They are much brighter now, but still a little
yellow. I wish I could find replacement caps, but its better than it was.


I am also in the process of building a set of tonal mods, 3 knobs for each
drum. I am mounting them in a set of 6x3x1" project boxes. They will be
mounted along the back of the TR808 above the jacks like a mixer Meter
bridge so all the knobs line up with their corresponding drums.

I plan to go to a hobby store to match up some touch-up paint for my 808
front panel and also some silver for some scratches on my TB303. Does anyone
have suggestions/experiences with touch-up paint for their gear? Any other
808 restoration tips/resources?

Good Luck, let me know if you find anything else usefull for the 808.

I came up with a really simple DIN Sync splitter/trigger box that lets you
start/stop/trigger any DIN Sync slave by hand. If anyone is interested, i
can provide more details.

-Dan Gendreau




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Thu May 11 19:23:46 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:23:46 +0200
Subject: grounding questions...
In-Reply-To: <39196365.96B17162@cityweb.de>
References: <00ab01bfb9c0$0d82d280$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>
 <005901bfb9e5$258cd860$7535883e@default>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000511192346.008b2390@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 15:25 10.05.00 +0200, Ingo Debus wrote:
>
>
>Tony Allgood wrote:
>>It must be said that in the UK all metal cases/parts that are
>> touchable by the user have to be directly connected to earth in any
>> mains powered unit.
>
>What about the tip of a phone jack (when the other end of the cable is
>plugged into a mains powered unit)?
>
>;-)

In essence this is connected to ground via the output of the circuit. 
I think there needs only be a conductive path to mains GND, so that no
parts can (e.g. capacitively) charge up to dangerous voltages. I have an
old BW-TV whose earphone output floats against the otherwise live circuit,
but it charges up. (No connection to mains GND anyway...) Sort of scary
that stuff like that is sold.

Bye,
 Ren?


-- 
transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Thu May 11 19:31:37 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:31:37 +0200
Subject: Patent violations?!
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000511193137.008b2560@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

Hi all,

I'm looking forward to do some circuits, which are mainly based on 
patented stuff. But I don't want to infringe someone elses rights.
 
My questions: 

How long does it take for a patent to become public domain?
And would I be allowed to publish a circuit to which patent rights are
still active? 

Bye,
 Ren?


-- 
transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Thu May 11 20:29:10 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:29:10 EDT
Subject: Patent violations?!
Message-ID: <64.29d46ab.264c55f6@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/11/00 8:47:11 AM, you wrote:

<<And would I be allowed to publish a circuit to which patent rights are

still active? >>

I think it's OK to publish your derivative circuit.  After all, the original 
patent is in its own way a very public disclosure of the idea.  The original 
inventor takes a certain amount of risk by patenting, because the process 
actually exposes his idea to a lot more people than if he had just gone ahead 
and put his idea directly to commercial use without patenting, but kept the 
details secret.  This, indeed, is one of the several reasons Don Lancaster is 
so vehemently opposed to the use of patents (in most cases).  Anyway, as long 
as you aren't trying to make money with the derivative, I don't think you can 
get in trouble for telling people how you did it.  Keep in mind, however, 
that I learned everything I know about the law from watching Ally Mcbeal, 
Matlock, a shop-worn videotape of To Kill a Mockingbird, and last year's 
congressional hearings on Monicagate.

Michael Bacich



From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Thu May 11 21:03:02 2000
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:03:02 +0100
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
Message-ID: <000001bfbb7b$a504f400$ee28883e@default>


A couple more similar Buchla/Serge touch keyboard projects
were published.  

One was in Synapse - I think it was written by Arpad Benares,
who was allegedly really Serge Tcherepnin.  It's out there on a
website somewhere, but I can't remember the URL.

There was also one in the Terrence Thomas DIY synth book
from a few years age - again I can't remember the name.  
Both were touch keyboard/programmer type things.  If you 
need them, reply to me as I might have them on my hard disk.

It probably wouldn't take much more to make it work as a 
sequencer too - the pots and panel are the hard work part
of a sequencer.

I think Tomita did something similar to what you're trying to
achieve.  I don't know if he was manually controlling the VCF
frequency, or clocking a sequencer or S&H from the keyboard
trigger, but it gave a voice-like effect.



Steve Ridley








From ryckebu at ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil  Thu May 11 21:18:10 2000
From: ryckebu at ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil (Jules Ryckebusch)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:18:10 -0700
Subject: Patent violations?!
References: <64.29d46ab.264c55f6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <391B0772.3E529B7A@ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil>

I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic Musician in
1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter that they claimed it
violated there patent(s). The only thing they could claim was that it could not
be used commercially. They actually claimed that it could not be used for a
commercial recording too. I was not in any legal trouble as I was just publicly
showing how to do something, not commercial production.

Jules Ryckebusch

WeAreAs1 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/11/00 8:47:11 AM, you wrote:
>
> <<And would I be allowed to publish a circuit to which patent rights are
>
> still active? >>
>
> I think it's OK to publish your derivative circuit.  After all, the original
> patent is in its own way a very public disclosure of the idea.  The original
> inventor takes a certain amount of risk by patenting, because the process
> actually exposes his idea to a lot more people than if he had just gone ahead
> and put his idea directly to commercial use without patenting, but kept the
> details secret.  This, indeed, is one of the several reasons Don Lancaster is
> so vehemently opposed to the use of patents (in most cases).  Anyway, as long
> as you aren't trying to make money with the derivative, I don't think you can
> get in trouble for telling people how you did it.  Keep in mind, however,
> that I learned everything I know about the law from watching Ally Mcbeal,
> Matlock, a shop-worn videotape of To Kill a Mockingbird, and last year's
> congressional hearings on Monicagate.
>
> Michael Bacich




From gerryd at ntx-tech.com  Thu May 11 21:23:53 2000
From: gerryd at ntx-tech.com (Gerry Dahl)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:23:53 -0500
Subject: Moog Prodigy Schematics
Message-ID: <006d01bfbb7e$83a0f360$79c809c0@20a3u>

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for the early version of Moog Prodigy schematics.

If anyone has a line on some this would be great!

Thanks.
Gerry Dahl
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From Romeo_Fahl at stream.com  Thu May 11 21:44:50 2000
From: Romeo_Fahl at stream.com (Romeo_Fahl at stream.com)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:44:50 -0700
Subject: Possibly goofy idea...
Message-ID: <OF298EB044.94E4F20B-ON882568DC.006C2BA8@support.stream.com>

I posted the Synapse article at this URL:

http://www.spiritone.com/~8brain/tkbds

I thought I sent a mail about it to the list this morning but never saw it posted.  Strange.  Anyways, Kevin Lightner originally posted it on
Synthfool,
 though I haven't been able to find it there.

Avoid the Terence Thomas circuit!!!  My friend Ian spent many many many hours on this circuit trying to get it to work, even contacting Mr. Thomas for
 help.
 It is far from reliable.

R.




"Steve Ridley" <spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk>@node12b53.a2000.nl on
05/11/2000 12:03:02 PM

Sent by:  owner-synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl


To:   <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
cc:

Subject:  Re: Possibly goofy idea...



A couple more similar Buchla/Serge touch keyboard projects
were published.

One was in Synapse - I think it was written by Arpad Benares,
who was allegedly really Serge Tcherepnin.  It's out there on a
website somewhere, but I can't remember the URL.

There was also one in the Terrence Thomas DIY synth book
from a few years age - again I can't remember the name.
Both were touch keyboard/programmer type things.  If you
need them, reply to me as I might have them on my hard disk.

It probably wouldn't take much more to make it work as a
sequencer too - the pots and panel are the hard work part
of a sequencer.

I think Tomita did something similar to what you're trying to
achieve.  I don't know if he was manually controlling the VCF
frequency, or clocking a sequencer or S&H from the keyboard
trigger, but it gave a voice-like effect.



Steve Ridley











From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu May 11 22:11:29 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:11:29 -0700
Subject: more hybrid OTA filters
References: <000701bfbb3c$2c9bc0a0$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <002401bfbb85$19d50aa0$0100a8c0@homenet>


Please ignore the statement I made about the output not
being symmetrical I had a diode turned the wrong way. Now
it puts out a beautiful sine and sounds even better.

Tom



> Someone asked how to use the hybrid-OTA to build a MS20
> filter......
> 
> http://www.xavax.com/efm/pdf/vcf8h.pdf
> 
> It might be hard to believe but this sounds very good.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 




From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu May 11 23:26:31 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:26:31 +0200
Subject: Sweet harmonics,  was: Patent violations?!
References: <64.29d46ab.264c55f6@aol.com> <391B0772.3E529B7A@ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <000d01bfbb8f$952dfe00$0400a8c0@Theo>


----- Original Message -----
From: Jules Ryckebusch <ryckebu at ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil>
To: <WeAreAs1 at aol.com>
Cc: <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: Patent violations?!


> I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic
Musician in
> 1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter that they
claimed it
> violated there patent(s).

Sounds intresting, is this sweety on line?

Cheers Theo




From psnow at magma.ca  Thu May 11 23:48:23 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:48:23 -0400
Subject: Patent violations?!
References: <64.29d46ab.264c55f6@aol.com> <391B0772.3E529B7A@ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <391B2AA7.E8AB0CB8@magma.ca>

Hi Jules,

Yes, I remember that article and the ensuing letters in EM.  As far as I
can remember Aphex went even further and claimed that anyone using that
device to record a song would be liable to pay them royalties on every
sale of that song!  Heavy stuff.  But I think some legal type wrote in
and said they were full of kaka and the whole thing died, right? Makes
you wonder how Aphex could justify charging what they did for their
product if it was so close to your circuit. That was a nice, simple,
elegant circuit too. It's still on my list to build, along with your
PAIA compressor. Arrrgh I wish I had more time!

Cheers,

Peter

Jules Ryckebusch wrote:
> 
> I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic Musician in
> 1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter that they claimed it
> violated there patent(s). The only thing they could claim was that it could not
> be used commercially. They actually claimed that it could not be used for a
> commercial recording too. I was not in any legal trouble as I was just publicly
> showing how to do something, not commercial production.
> 
> Jules Ryckebusch
> 
> WeAreAs1 at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 5/11/00 8:47:11 AM, you wrote:
> >
> > <<And would I be allowed to publish a circuit to which patent rights are
> >
> > still active? >>
> >
> > I think it's OK to publish your derivative circuit.  After all, the original
> > patent is in its own way a very public disclosure of the idea.  The original
> > inventor takes a certain amount of risk by patenting, because the process
> > actually exposes his idea to a lot more people than if he had just gone ahead
> > and put his idea directly to commercial use without patenting, but kept the
> > details secret.  This, indeed, is one of the several reasons Don Lancaster is
> > so vehemently opposed to the use of patents (in most cases).  Anyway, as long
> > as you aren't trying to make money with the derivative, I don't think you can
> > get in trouble for telling people how you did it.  Keep in mind, however,
> > that I learned everything I know about the law from watching Ally Mcbeal,
> > Matlock, a shop-worn videotape of To Kill a Mockingbird, and last year's
> > congressional hearings on Monicagate.
> >
> > Michael Bacich



From daveh at microsoft.com  Fri May 12 00:50:17 2000
From: daveh at microsoft.com (Dave Halliday)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:50:17 -0700
Subject: Patent violations?!
Message-ID: <C35556591D34D111BB5600805F1961B922801111@RED-MSG-47>

It was a loong time ago but I seem to remember an interview with the person
who "invented" the Aphex device and it came about because they were
assembling a kit amplifier and made a mistake somewhere.  They liked the
sound and proceeded to have someone figure out what was happening and they
made a business out of it.



-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Snow [mailto:psnow at magma.ca]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 2:48 PM
To: Jules Ryckebusch
Cc: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Subject: Re: Patent violations?!


Hi Jules,

Yes, I remember that article and the ensuing letters in EM.  As far as I
can remember Aphex went even further and claimed that anyone using that
device to record a song would be liable to pay them royalties on every
sale of that song!  Heavy stuff.  But I think some legal type wrote in
and said they were full of kaka and the whole thing died, right? Makes
you wonder how Aphex could justify charging what they did for their
product if it was so close to your circuit. That was a nice, simple,
elegant circuit too. It's still on my list to build, along with your
PAIA compressor. Arrrgh I wish I had more time!

Cheers,

Peter

Jules Ryckebusch wrote:
> 
> I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic
Musician in
> 1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter that they
claimed it
> violated there patent(s). The only thing they could claim was that it
could not
> be used commercially. They actually claimed that it could not be used for
a
> commercial recording too. I was not in any legal trouble as I was just
publicly
> showing how to do something, not commercial production.
> 
> Jules Ryckebusch
> 
> WeAreAs1 at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 5/11/00 8:47:11 AM, you wrote:
> >
> > <<And would I be allowed to publish a circuit to which patent rights are
> >
> > still active? >>
> >
> > I think it's OK to publish your derivative circuit.  After all, the
original
> > patent is in its own way a very public disclosure of the idea.  The
original
> > inventor takes a certain amount of risk by patenting, because the
process
> > actually exposes his idea to a lot more people than if he had just gone
ahead
> > and put his idea directly to commercial use without patenting, but kept
the
> > details secret.  This, indeed, is one of the several reasons Don
Lancaster is
> > so vehemently opposed to the use of patents (in most cases).  Anyway, as
long
> > as you aren't trying to make money with the derivative, I don't think
you can
> > get in trouble for telling people how you did it.  Keep in mind,
however,
> > that I learned everything I know about the law from watching Ally
Mcbeal,
> > Matlock, a shop-worn videotape of To Kill a Mockingbird, and last year's
> > congressional hearings on Monicagate.
> >
> > Michael Bacich



From bnillson at hotmail.com  Fri May 12 01:08:26 2000
From: bnillson at hotmail.com (Bjorn Julin)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:08:26 GMT
Subject: tranny pairs
Message-ID: <20000511230826.25508.qmail@hotmail.com>

Yes, im using the 2SC1583 in a lot of
my own stuff they are great and cheap.

And the pin out as is you said absolutely
splendid, some jap-designer did a good job here!

BJ

>From: "tomg" <efm3 at mediaone.net>

>I have secured a source for the 2SC1583 NPN pair they are $0.85 ea.
>I also have the 2SA798 PNP pair they are also $0.85 ea.  Let's say
>a minimum of 5 pieces to make the trip to the post office worth it. As I
>can now get them reliably I am going to start using these in everything.
>
>They are not "Super" transistors they are however matched monolithic
>pairs and usually more than adequate for synth design. I like the pin
>out a lot! It's B-C-E-C-B inline.
>
>Tom
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From psnow at magma.ca  Fri May 12 01:51:15 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:51:15 -0400
Subject: Patent violations?!
References: <C35556591D34D111BB5600805F1961B922801111@RED-MSG-47>
Message-ID: <391B4773.3DE61C71@magma.ca>

Hi Dave,

A happy accident for them, I guess. Aphex must have made a fortune on
that device.  I remember when you could not pick up an album in the
record store that did not have "Recorded with the Aphex Aural Exciter"
(or something like that) on the back. And later other more sarcastic
artists would put "NOT recorded with the Aphex Aural Exciter" on their
album cover. Shows how pervasive that device was at the time.

It has always puzzled me that a circuit that adds distortion can
actually "clarify" or enhance a sound.
I wonder how far down in the frequency range the distortion can occur
before it actually appears as distortion and not as enhancement? Anyone
built one of these and experimented with it?

Cheers,

Peter

Dave Halliday wrote:
> 
> It was a loong time ago but I seem to remember an interview with the person
> who "invented" the Aphex device and it came about because they were
> assembling a kit amplifier and made a mistake somewhere.  They liked the
> sound and proceeded to have someone figure out what was happening and they
> made a business out of it.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Snow [mailto:psnow at magma.ca]
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 2:48 PM
> To: Jules Ryckebusch
> Cc: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: Re: Patent violations?!
> 
> Hi Jules,
> 
> Yes, I remember that article and the ensuing letters in EM.  As far as I
> can remember Aphex went even further and claimed that anyone using that
> device to record a song would be liable to pay them royalties on every
> sale of that song!  Heavy stuff.  But I think some legal type wrote in
> and said they were full of kaka and the whole thing died, right? Makes
> you wonder how Aphex could justify charging what they did for their
> product if it was so close to your circuit. That was a nice, simple,
> elegant circuit too. It's still on my list to build, along with your
> PAIA compressor. Arrrgh I wish I had more time!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Peter
> 
> Jules Ryckebusch wrote:
> >
> > I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic
> Musician in
> > 1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter that they
> claimed it
> > violated there patent(s). The only thing they could claim was that it
> could not
> > be used commercially. They actually claimed that it could not be used for
> a
> > commercial recording too. I was not in any legal trouble as I was just
> publicly
> > showing how to do something, not commercial production.
> >
> > Jules Ryckebusch
> >
> > WeAreAs1 at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > In a message dated 5/11/00 8:47:11 AM, you wrote:
> > >
> > > <<And would I be allowed to publish a circuit to which patent rights are
> > >
> > > still active? >>
> > >
> > > I think it's OK to publish your derivative circuit.  After all, the
> original
> > > patent is in its own way a very public disclosure of the idea.  The
> original
> > > inventor takes a certain amount of risk by patenting, because the
> process
> > > actually exposes his idea to a lot more people than if he had just gone
> ahead
> > > and put his idea directly to commercial use without patenting, but kept
> the
> > > details secret.  This, indeed, is one of the several reasons Don
> Lancaster is
> > > so vehemently opposed to the use of patents (in most cases).  Anyway, as
> long
> > > as you aren't trying to make money with the derivative, I don't think
> you can
> > > get in trouble for telling people how you did it.  Keep in mind,
> however,
> > > that I learned everything I know about the law from watching Ally
> Mcbeal,
> > > Matlock, a shop-worn videotape of To Kill a Mockingbird, and last year's
> > > congressional hearings on Monicagate.
> > >
> > > Michael Bacich



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri May 12 04:02:18 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:02:18 -0400
Subject: Patent violations?!
References: <3.0.5.32.20000511193137.008b2560@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <391A863C.7ED3@metro.net>
Message-ID: <391B6629.B79978A2@prodigy.net>

The current patent law may be from 17-20 years (there was a change) there
is also
an issue of whether the protection extends from date of filing, or date of
issue.

The Patent Tradmark Office PTO has a website... if you know the number of
the
patent you can see whether it is in force. Many companies fail to make the
required
maintenance payments and their patents expire early. Check the ones that
apply
to you...

You can refer to a patent whenever you want. The information is public
domain... but
if your new design infringes the patent, you can't sell it without a
licence. You can publish
whatever you want patent or not.

BUT seriously folks... lets be responsible DIY'ers and give credit where
credit is due.
The Law and Ethics sometimes don't overlap.

H^) harry (who will identify the patent I am working on when I post it here
!!!)

John E Blacet wrote:

> IMHO: 20 years is the patent duration. (From Filing Date, I believe...)
>
> Patents are in the public domain as far as reproduction is concerned.
> I'm not sure what trouble you would get in by publishing a circuit
> derived from an active patent. Typically, if the patent holder notices
> this, they may issue a warning that the commercial use of the circuit
> may violate their patent rights.
>
> The key to understanding patents is that USE is protected, not the
> information. OTOH, Trade Secret laws cover the public disclosure of
> information. You would have had to sign a NDA or illegally aquired such
> information to be in trouble in this case, however.
>
> I'm not a lawyer and this advice should be taken as personal opinion
> only.
>
> Regards.
> -------------------------
> John Blacet
> Blacet Research Music Electronics
> http://www.blacet.com
> -------------------------
> blacet at metro.net
> -------------------------
> Are you on our mailing list?
> http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html




From tpaddock at seanet.com  Fri May 12 04:26:48 2000
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:26:48 -0700
Subject: In the market for a scope
Message-ID: <01BFBB7E.F9ED11C0@dialup-63.214.9.116.Seattle1.Level3.net>

One thing about modern scopes I find 
kind of sad is the short expected lifetime.
Something like an old TEK 465 was expected 
to be used for a long time. 

On the other hand TEK has already dropped support 
on the 2445 and I still think of them as "those new scopes". 
Maybe that's just my perspective. 
I'd like to have one myself. I like 'em.
(150MHz analog, 2 real channels, 2 trigger and limited range channels, 
cursors, Z-axis input, chan 2 10mV/div OUT)

I tried out a TEK TDS 3032 with the "digital phosphor" and it did seem 
to do a pretty good job of simulating variable persistence. 
And it did work in x-y mode. They call it "triggered x-y", I don't know 
what that means. It did have some blank spots in the waveform 
when doing x-y at LFO type frequencies. A minor complaint I 
have is that the persistence fades smoothly from the fresh 
waveform trace. On an analog scope the fresh waveform 
is brighter than the persisting stuff and then fades from there.
Man, that's a bad description. 
Where I work these are becoming the standard bench scope. Pretty cool.

I would only get a digital scope if I already had something 
analog to use as a sanity check when the going gets weird.

Way out of my personal budget anyway, 
so it's easy to be critical. 

 - -- -  Toby "I wouldn't trust a digital scope any farther 
than I could comfortably spit a rat" Paddock






From jimbob at heliconsc.net  Fri May 12 04:29:17 2000
From: jimbob at heliconsc.net (James Damewood)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:29:17 -0400
Subject: Patent violations?!
References: <1.5.4.32.20000511013157.00e28320@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <001b01bfbbb9$df9522a0$fde080d0@carol.net>

Is that the circuit with HPF with some clipping (distortion) and mixed back
with the original signal?

Jimbob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Perry" <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
To: <ryckebu at ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil>
Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Patent violations?!


> At 12:18 PM 11/05/00 -0700, you wrote:
> >I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic
> Musician in
> >1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter
>
> Can you remember the date on the AExiter patent?
> Maybe we cd all go into production on the date it lapses!
>
> And, what was the actual claim of the patent?
> A friend did some work building a version of this & concluded that the
> key, in a practical sense, was in recombining the distorted & original
> signals so
> that there was no cancellation. Which requires some tricky phase shifting.
> But, if it is done in DSP, it is much easier.
> Although as Jules showed, you can get something useful for $10.
>
> paul perry melbournhe australia
> BTW since in Western law the opposing parties are supported by two lawyers
> each of whom say the law supports their own side, the sum knowledge of
> lawyers is zero.
>




From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Fri May 12 05:00:13 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:00:13 -0500
Subject: In the market for a scope
References: <01BFBB7E.F9ED11C0@dialup-63.214.9.116.Seattle1.Level3.net>
Message-ID: <002f01bfbbbe$323e7e80$f364fea9@cyborg0>


----- Original Message -----
From: Toby Paddock <tpaddock at seanet.com>
To: 'synth-diy' <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: In the market for a scope


snip

I dont have any real problems with my handheld digital scope. You just
really have to know what you are doing/looking for and be able to set it up
as such.  Definitely *not* always the easiest thing mind you, but still its
better than having a huge scope sitting around on the bench.

Sometimes, you just have to set down and think a little more about what you
are expecting to see and *DO NOT* trust the stupid "autoset" buttons because
autoset usually causes more alarm than good.

Rob

>
> I would only get a digital scope if I already had something
> analog to use as a sanity check when the going gets weird.
>
> Way out of my personal budget anyway,
> so it's easy to be critical.
>
>  - -- -  Toby "I wouldn't trust a digital scope any farther
> than I could comfortably spit a rat" Paddock
>
>
>
>




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri May 12 05:00:28 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:00:28 -0400
Subject: In the market for a scope
References: <01BFBB7E.F9ED11C0@dialup-63.214.9.116.Seattle1.Level3.net>
Message-ID: <391B73CB.DB465C32@prodigy.net>

Hey Toby:

Excellent point.

I use a Fluke/Phillips hybrid scope at work. My favorite... like it even
better than
the TEKs. It has digital storage, but push a button and it becomes analog.
Crude
but excellent "sanity check". Make sure its real, then sample.

There is room for analog and digital !!!

H^)

Toby Paddock wrote:

> One thing about modern scopes I find
> kind of sad is the short expected lifetime.
> Something like an old TEK 465 was expected
> to be used for a long time.
>
> On the other hand TEK has already dropped support
> on the 2445 and I still think of them as "those new scopes".
> Maybe that's just my perspective.
> I'd like to have one myself. I like 'em.
> (150MHz analog, 2 real channels, 2 trigger and limited range channels,
> cursors, Z-axis input, chan 2 10mV/div OUT)
>
> I tried out a TEK TDS 3032 with the "digital phosphor" and it did seem
> to do a pretty good job of simulating variable persistence.
> And it did work in x-y mode. They call it "triggered x-y", I don't know
> what that means. It did have some blank spots in the waveform
> when doing x-y at LFO type frequencies. A minor complaint I
> have is that the persistence fades smoothly from the fresh
> waveform trace. On an analog scope the fresh waveform
> is brighter than the persisting stuff and then fades from there.
> Man, that's a bad description.
> Where I work these are becoming the standard bench scope. Pretty cool.
>
> I would only get a digital scope if I already had something
> analog to use as a sanity check when the going gets weird.
>
> Way out of my personal budget anyway,
> so it's easy to be critical.
>
>  - -- -  Toby "I wouldn't trust a digital scope any farther
> than I could comfortably spit a rat" Paddock




From tpaddock at seanet.com  Fri May 12 07:04:33 2000
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:04:33 -0700
Subject: In the market for a scope
Message-ID: <01BFBB94.E7CBA4A0@dialup-63.214.9.116.Seattle1.Level3.net>

Rob,
Well put. I guess I did come across totally negative on 
digital scopes. Plus I was ignoring all the good things 
they CAN do. 
And I bet floating the ground on your handheld is easy. 

Harry,
Yes! I've used a Fluke/Phillips hybrid scope. 
What a cool machine.

 - -- -  Toby "I guess I would trust a digital scope farther
than I could comfortably spit a rat" Paddock



Rob[SMTP:cyborg_0 at iquest.net] wrote:

I dont have any real problems with my handheld digital scope. 
You just really have to know what you are doing/looking for 
and be able to set it up as such.  Definitely *not* always the 
easiest thing mind you, but still its better than having a huge 
scope sitting around on the bench. Sometimes, you just have 
to set down and think a little more about what you
are expecting to see and *DO NOT* trust the stupid "autoset" 
buttons because autoset usually causes more alarm than good.
Rob


Harry Bissell[SMTP:harrybissell at prodigy.net] wrote:

I use a Fluke/Phillips hybrid scope at work. My favorite... like 
it even better than the TEKs. It has digital storage, but 
push a button and it becomes analog. Crude but excellent 
"sanity check". Make sure its real, then sample.
There is room for analog and digital !!!
H^)




From ka4hjh at gte.net  Fri May 12 07:16:34 2000
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:16:34 -0400
Subject: tranny pairs
In-Reply-To: <391A6CAE.1060740A@eunet.yu>
References: <006d01bfbadb$a49cb200$0100a8c0@homenet>
 <391AA2FF.64C373D2@zoo.uvm.edu> <391A6CAE.1060740A@eunet.yu>
Message-ID: <p04310101b5413c658d9b@[63.23.233.135]>

>see moog's matching cct (I think it's at sdiy page)

Where is it? I searched earlier posts but couldn't find it. Someone 
mentioned it being in a service manual.


>Here you need matched FETs not plain bipolar transistors. You can find
>nice cct at www.geofex.com under FX schematics for matching FETs in
>mxr type phasers.

I found that one

http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/p180fets.gif



-- 
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"



From ka4hjh at gte.net  Fri May 12 07:23:02 2000
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:23:02 -0400
Subject: tranny pairs
Message-ID: <p04310100b54145a2b918@[63.23.233.135]>

>see moog's matching cct (I think it's at sdiy page)

Of course I found it two minutes later:

http://www.haint.com/synth-diy/matching.gif


-- 
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"



From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May 12 07:37:16 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:37:16 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Patent violations?!
Message-ID: <200005120537.HAA06927@ikarus.intermetall.de>

AFAIK the patent claim starts at the date when the patent was 
send to the patent office. This is of course BEFORE it is 
published.

A patent is there to ensure that economic advantages 
of the invention flow to the inventor.
It has nothing to do with publishing.
As long as you don't make money using the advantages of the invention
that's ok.


m.c.


:::X-Sender: uzs159 at mailout.uni-bonn.de (Unverified)
:::Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:31:37 +0200
:::To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
:::From: Ren? Schmitz <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de>
:::Subject: Patent violations?!
:::Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
:::
:::Hi all,
:::
:::I'm looking forward to do some circuits, which are mainly based on 
:::patented stuff. But I don't want to infringe someone elses rights.
::: 
:::My questions: 
:::
:::How long does it take for a patent to become public domain?
:::And would I be allowed to publish a circuit to which patent rights are
:::still active? 
:::
:::Bye,
::: Ren?
:::
:::
:::-- 
:::transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
:::isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
:::obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May 12 07:54:07 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:54:07 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: inverse response speaker flattening
Message-ID: <200005120554.HAA06934@ikarus.intermetall.de>

There is one thing I wonder about:

You have music from digital sources all the way, till power amplifier. It
would be no problem to ship a little digital in/out box with a measuring
microphone, so that anyone can measure the frequency response of his room
and his speakers, the box takes the inverse to filter the CD data. That
should give an almost ideal response for that single measuring point in
space and hopefully around it.

Of course, once the speakers are flattened, any personal taste could be
applied as well (bath tub).

One problem could be that shitty bass chassis could not take the needed
power...

I have never seen any advertisement for such an apparatus, it seems that
something like that simply does not exist.

Another question:

In the 70ties people thought about switching amplifiers.
I.e. DAC amplifiers. The audio chain would be digital up to
the speakers. Are there any reasonable advances/designs
today?

m.c.




From dafc at sinectis.com.ar  Fri May 12 09:02:57 2000
From: dafc at sinectis.com.ar (David Castillo)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 04:02:57 -0300
Subject: adding pitch to Technics SL-Q200
Message-ID: <01BFBBC6.F8737C60@modem37-tc7.capfed1.sinectis.com.ar>



-----Mensaje original-----
>From : chris coleman 
Subject : RE: adding pitch to Technics SL-Q200

I will tell you... you'd better buy a SL-1200, i think that it's an instrument itself. Besides it has some extra features that make it special and you could get an used one for a few little bucks, (and an Mk II is an Mk II :) ).
I think that a turntable is a too simple thing to customize, and there are other things more fun and better to build or modify.
It's just my opinion.    

Bye! 

Yes, I'm trying to make it more SL-1200'ish.

Last time I looked, if I recall properly, the SL-Q200 had a label on it 
saying "Quartz locked"...

We're (probably) in luck then, huh !


At 11:28 AM 5/10/2000 -0400, Dan Gendreau wrote:
=====================
Its possible you can add pitch control, but not likely to be very accurate.
The speed may drift on you.

If you are trying to convert your Q200 into an SL-1200 your probably out of
luck. The 1200s use a quartz lock mechanism to keep the tables turning at a
specific speed and I doubt the Q200 has those electronics present.

-Dan G.

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com





From tom at go2net.com  Fri May 12 11:43:01 2000
From: tom at go2net.com (Tom May)
Date: 12 May 2000 02:43:01 -0700
Subject: Patent violations?!
In-Reply-To: Paul Perry's message of "Thu, 11 May 2000 11:31:57 +1000"
References: <1.5.4.32.20000511013157.00e28320@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <m12qByH-0003GKC@sneetch.go2net.com>

Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au> writes:

> At 12:18 PM 11/05/00 -0700, you wrote:
> >I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic
> Musician in
> >1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter 
> 
> Can you remember the date on the AExiter patent?
> Maybe we cd all go into production on the date it lapses!
> 
> And, what was the actual claim of the patent?

According to US Patent Number 5424488, ". . . a product made by Aphex
Systems Ltd. called an "Aural Exciter" under U.S. Pat. No. 4,150,253".

You can look this up at www.patents.ibm.com.

fTom.



From psytech at online.ru  Fri May 12 13:14:27 2000
From: psytech at online.ru (siddhar)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:14:27 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] kind of a *SHORT* sdiy survey...
Message-ID: <20010909110613Z403297-1619+4354@ajax2.sovam.com>

>How many Synth's have you built :
2

> How long have you been a DIYer?
1995

> # Of Modular :
0+ now i working with buchla modules clones

> # Of Integrated :
1

> % With MIDI Support:
working to make MIDIfied Polivoks 19'' clone with MIDI contol for 
all internal cv  modules

> Built for Live performance or Studio?
both

>One more interesting question. In which city do you live? 
St.-Petersburg / RUSSIA

Aleksei S.


From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May 12 13:41:24 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:41:24 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: inverse response speaker flattening
Message-ID: <200005121141.NAA07559@ikarus.intermetall.de>

Thanks to all who have responded.
This is still a great list!


http://www.tactaudio.com/

So, digital amps exist and they work.
But they are still expensive.

Room correction DSPs exist too, see RCS
on the same site.

Great work, but a bit expensive for me!

m.c.


:::Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:53:28 +0200
:::From: Hallgeir Helland <hhelland at mailandnews.com>
:::To: Martin Czech <czech at Micronas.Com>
:::Subject: Re: inverse response speaker flattening
:::Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
:::
:::Hi Martin,
:::
:::I have read about some HiFi amp called TacT Millenium.
:::This is supposed to be a digital amp, making PWM from
:::a digital input signal, and running this right to the 
:::speakers.
:::And furthermore they have also made a PC app. where you
:::can measure the room acoustics and download it into the 
:::amp to equalize the response.
:::Haven't heard it myself, but the magazine said it was the
:::greatest since sliced bread. But then again, these guys 
:::only want to sell the stuff. I don't know.
:::
:::There's probably a web site on it somewhere.....
:::
:::hope this was of some help-
:::Hallgeir
:::
:::Martin Czech wrote:
:::> 
:::> There is one thing I wonder about:
:::> 
:::> You have music from digital sources all the way, till power amplifier. It
:::> would be no problem to ship a little digital in/out box with a measuring
:::> microphone, so that anyone can measure the frequency response of his room
:::> and his speakers, the box takes the inverse to filter the CD data. That
:::> should give an almost ideal response for that single measuring point in
:::> space and hopefully around it.
:::> 
:::> Of course, once the speakers are flattened, any personal taste could be
:::> applied as well (bath tub).
:::> 
:::> One problem could be that shitty bass chassis could not take the needed
:::> power...
:::> 
:::> I have never seen any advertisement for such an apparatus, it seems that
:::> something like that simply does not exist.
:::> 
:::> Another question:
:::> 
:::> In the 70ties people thought about switching amplifiers.
:::> I.e. DAC amplifiers. The audio chain would be digital up to
:::> the speakers. Are there any reasonable advances/designs
:::> today?
:::> 
:::> m.c.
:::
:::-- 
:::HELLAND MUSIKK TEKNOLOGI
:::-=  Hallgeir Helland  =-
:::hhelland at mailandnews.com




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri May 12 14:44:22 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:44:22 -0400
Subject: inverse response speaker flattening
References: <200005120554.HAA06934@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <391BFCA6.69276965@prodigy.net>

Hi Martin (et al)

Switching Amps (Class D and above) are actually COMMON today
(well maybe I stretch the truth... common for laptop computer audio
systems). They allow very high efficiency, so they save battery power
especially at lower levels where bias current would hurt. High efficiency
also means very small footprint...

Check out Texas Instruments website for chips, appnotes, evaluation
boards and some papers they wrote recently, especially the one
regarding the choise of output filter vs distortion. Not what you (I?)
expect...  Power is in the 20W class.

OTOH I will not be using this design soon. Analog RULES

BTW:  My little Stewart "switching power supply" amp does not
hold a candle to my (linear) JBL. The band CAN tell the difference.
OTOH: If I had to choose one to go swimming with....

H^) harry

Martin Czech wrote:

> There is one thing I wonder about:
>
> You have music from digital sources all the way, till power amplifier. It
> would be no problem to ship a little digital in/out box with a measuring
> microphone, so that anyone can measure the frequency response of his room
> and his speakers, the box takes the inverse to filter the CD data. That
> should give an almost ideal response for that single measuring point in
> space and hopefully around it.
>
> Of course, once the speakers are flattened, any personal taste could be
> applied as well (bath tub).
>
> One problem could be that shitty bass chassis could not take the needed
> power...
>
> I have never seen any advertisement for such an apparatus, it seems that
> something like that simply does not exist.
>
> Another question:
>
> In the 70ties people thought about switching amplifiers.
> I.e. DAC amplifiers. The audio chain would be digital up to
> the speakers. Are there any reasonable advances/designs
> today?
>
> m.c.




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri May 12 14:47:20 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:47:20 -0400
Subject: inverse response speaker flattening
References: <200005121141.NAA07559@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <391BFD57.60E61F22@prodigy.net>

Yeah... we have to make a DAC output amp....

But it won't "sound" good unless we use TUBES.....

H^)  lol

Martin Czech wrote:

> Thanks to all who have responded.
> This is still a great list!
>
> http://www.tactaudio.com/
>
> So, digital amps exist and they work.
> But they are still expensive.
>
> Room correction DSPs exist too, see RCS
> on the same site.
>
> Great work, but a bit expensive for me!
>
> m.c.
>
> :::Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:53:28 +0200
> :::From: Hallgeir Helland <hhelland at mailandnews.com>
> :::To: Martin Czech <czech at Micronas.Com>
> :::Subject: Re: inverse response speaker flattening
> :::Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> :::
> :::Hi Martin,
> :::
> :::I have read about some HiFi amp called TacT Millenium.
> :::This is supposed to be a digital amp, making PWM from
> :::a digital input signal, and running this right to the
> :::speakers.
> :::And furthermore they have also made a PC app. where you
> :::can measure the room acoustics and download it into the
> :::amp to equalize the response.
> :::Haven't heard it myself, but the magazine said it was the
> :::greatest since sliced bread. But then again, these guys
> :::only want to sell the stuff. I don't know.
> :::
> :::There's probably a web site on it somewhere.....
> :::
> :::hope this was of some help-
> :::Hallgeir
> :::
> :::Martin Czech wrote:
> :::>
> :::> There is one thing I wonder about:
> :::>
> :::> You have music from digital sources all the way, till power amplifier. It
> :::> would be no problem to ship a little digital in/out box with a measuring
> :::> microphone, so that anyone can measure the frequency response of his room
> :::> and his speakers, the box takes the inverse to filter the CD data. That
> :::> should give an almost ideal response for that single measuring point in
> :::> space and hopefully around it.
> :::>
> :::> Of course, once the speakers are flattened, any personal taste could be
> :::> applied as well (bath tub).
> :::>
> :::> One problem could be that shitty bass chassis could not take the needed
> :::> power...
> :::>
> :::> I have never seen any advertisement for such an apparatus, it seems that
> :::> something like that simply does not exist.
> :::>
> :::> Another question:
> :::>
> :::> In the 70ties people thought about switching amplifiers.
> :::> I.e. DAC amplifiers. The audio chain would be digital up to
> :::> the speakers. Are there any reasonable advances/designs
> :::> today?
> :::>
> :::> m.c.
> :::
> :::--
> :::HELLAND MUSIKK TEKNOLOGI
> :::-=  Hallgeir Helland  =-
> :::hhelland at mailandnews.com




From kynsi at boomboomclap.demon.nl  Fri May 12 15:10:39 2000
From: kynsi at boomboomclap.demon.nl (Kyn Si)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:10:39 +0200
Subject: mc1495 ic
Message-ID: <E12qEvt-0007iP-00@post.mail.nl.demon.net>

Hi,

I am going to order the motorola mc1495d ic. This chip isn't available 
outside the USA but I managed to get hold of an adres where I can order 
them. It will take about two weeks to arive, and costs about $3,- or 2 
poundsterling. 

If anyone wants to buy one please let me know. I will be ordering them next 
week.
This IC is used in ring-modulators (i.e. oberheim).

Adios,


Corneel.



_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.

"the modern day composer refuses to die" - E. Varese

            "real music never will" - K.S.

        http://www.boomboomclap.demon.nl/kynsi

_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.



From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Fri May 12 15:17:45 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:17:45 -0500
Subject: In the market for a scope
References: <01BFBB94.E7CBA4A0@dialup-63.214.9.116.Seattle1.Level3.net>
Message-ID: <000001bfbc6f$edd1bac0$2178fea9@cyborg0>

Hey, no prob! I was of that mindset at one time too, but after using hybrid
and digital scopes for a while as a neccesity of my job with the EV1
projects it became quite a bit easier. Although, as I said, autoset on a
pure digital scope does NOT always mean that you will get something you
want! ;)

Theres a lot of fidgeting around with menus that occurs sometimes when I use
mine only because I was too foolish to trust myself and pressed autoset
(which should be really called "automess")

But, I agree, the analog scopes are still quite a bit better if you dont
want to worry about aliasing and such and want to be able to trust the
scope. I have seen some funky waveforms that looked nothing like they were
supposed to. You just have to think it through a little bit more before
using what you see as gospel and check your settings.

If you get one, prepare for a learning curve, no doubt about it. But the
rewards are great, like being able to capture waveforms directly to my
laptop and send them on.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: Toby Paddock <tpaddock at seanet.com>
To: 'synth-diy' <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>; 'Rob' <cyborg_0 at iquest.net>;
'Harry Bissell' <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 12:04 AM
Subject: RE: In the market for a scope


> Rob,
> Well put. I guess I did come across totally negative on
> digital scopes. Plus I was ignoring all the good things
> they CAN do.
> And I bet floating the ground on your handheld is easy.
>
> Harry,
> Yes! I've used a Fluke/Phillips hybrid scope.
> What a cool machine.
>
>  - -- -  Toby "I guess I would trust a digital scope farther
> than I could comfortably spit a rat" Paddock
>
>
>
> Rob[SMTP:cyborg_0 at iquest.net] wrote:
>
> I dont have any real problems with my handheld digital scope.
> You just really have to know what you are doing/looking for
> and be able to set it up as such.  Definitely *not* always the
> easiest thing mind you, but still its better than having a huge
> scope sitting around on the bench. Sometimes, you just have
> to set down and think a little more about what you
> are expecting to see and *DO NOT* trust the stupid "autoset"
> buttons because autoset usually causes more alarm than good.
> Rob
>
>
> Harry Bissell[SMTP:harrybissell at prodigy.net] wrote:
>
> I use a Fluke/Phillips hybrid scope at work. My favorite... like
> it even better than the TEKs. It has digital storage, but
> push a button and it becomes analog. Crude but excellent
> "sanity check". Make sure its real, then sample.
> There is room for analog and digital !!!
> H^)
>
>




From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Fri May 12 15:51:01 2000
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:51:01 -0600
Subject: Patent violations?!
References: <200005120537.HAA06927@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <002601bfbc19$1fc742e0$ca57143f@celery>

Martin --

In the US you have up to a year after publication to file. (Done it many
times).

  Ian

> AFAIK the patent claim starts at the date when the patent was
> send to the patent office. This is of course BEFORE it is
> published.
>





From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Fri May 12 16:41:22 2000
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:41:22 +0200
Subject: '808 parts.... help my poor gap-toothed TR??!
References: <E12pdR1-0003nA-00@cobalt9-fe.global.net.uk>
Message-ID: <391C1812.961AF44A@consol.de>

Hi john 


> below the funky coloured buttons. Roland UK have told me that these are not
> available.... Anyone got any spare? (they're the stupid flimsy
> black-plastic things). I *need* 4, but  could probably do with a complete
> set :)
I ordered some from Roland Germany last January. Phonenumber is
040-526009-0

bye

--
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de



From ryckebu at ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil  Fri May 12 17:13:03 2000
From: ryckebu at ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil (Jules Ryckebusch)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:13:03 -0700
Subject: Patent violations?!
References: <1.5.4.32.20000511013157.00e28320@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <391C1F7F.2723D8FE@ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil>

The Aphex patent was dated 1976 or 1977. BTW they are good for 17 years.
Although I know Aphex has filed derivative patents etc.

Jules

Paul Perry wrote:

> At 12:18 PM 11/05/00 -0700, you wrote:
> >I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic
> Musician in
> >1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter
>
> Can you remember the date on the AExiter patent?
> Maybe we cd all go into production on the date it lapses!
>
> And, what was the actual claim of the patent?
> A friend did some work building a version of this & concluded that the
> key, in a practical sense, was in recombining the distorted & original
> signals so
> that there was no cancellation. Which requires some tricky phase shifting.
> But, if it is done in DSP, it is much easier.
> Although as Jules showed, you can get something useful for $10.
>
> paul perry melbournhe australia
> BTW since in Western law the opposing parties are supported by two lawyers
> each of whom say the law supports their own side, the sum knowledge of
> lawyers is zero.




From ryckebu at ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil  Fri May 12 18:51:13 2000
From: ryckebu at ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil (Jules Ryckebusch)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:51:13 -0700
Subject: Harmonic Sweetener Schematic MSword
References: <64.29d46ab.264c55f6@aol.com> <391B0772.3E529B7A@ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil> <000d01bfbb8f$952dfe00$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <391C3681.4C0E92E6@ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil>



Theo wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jules Ryckebusch <ryckebu at ersg.san.mrms.navy.mil>
> To: <WeAreAs1 at aol.com>
> Cc: <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 9:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Patent violations?!
>
> > I published the "build a ten dollar harmonic sweetener" in Electronic
> Musician in
> > 1987. Technically it close enough to the Aphex Aural Exicter that they
> claimed it
> > violated there patent(s).
>
> Sounds intresting, is this sweety on line?
>
> Cheers Theo
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From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Fri May 12 18:58:59 2000
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 18:58:59 +0200
Subject: '808 parts.... help my poor gap-toothed TR??!
References: <E12pdR1-0003nA-00@cobalt9-fe.global.net.uk> <391C1812.961AF44A@consol.de>
Message-ID: <391C3853.9DBFABC6@consol.de>


> I ordered some from Roland Germany last January. Phonenumber is
> 040-526009-0
uups, sorry, forgot international prefix

++49-40-526009-0

-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de



From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri May 12 19:28:01 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:28:01 +0200
Subject: inverse response speaker flattening
References: <200005120554.HAA06934@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <00b101bfbc37$6cfb60a0$0400a8c0@Theo>

I've read about a intresting thing from Philps: Digital speakers.
It is a multi coil disign where every bit has it's onw coil, or somthing
like that.
Sofar I understood the coils ain't wire wound but etched or  printed
instead.
It has been three or four years ago that I read this,
it seemed to be a "let's try this maybe it is cool" project, don't know if
they still work on it.

Cheers Theo

----- Original Message -----
From: Martin Czech <czech at Micronas.Com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 7:54 AM
Subject: inverse response speaker flattening


> There is one thing I wonder about:
>
> You have music from digital sources all the way, till power amplifier. It
> would be no problem to ship a little digital in/out box with a measuring
> microphone, so that anyone can measure the frequency response of his room
> and his speakers, the box takes the inverse to filter the CD data. That
> should give an almost ideal response for that single measuring point in
> space and hopefully around it.
>
> Of course, once the speakers are flattened, any personal taste could be
> applied as well (bath tub).
>
> One problem could be that shitty bass chassis could not take the needed
> power...
>
> I have never seen any advertisement for such an apparatus, it seems that
> something like that simply does not exist.
>
> Another question:
>
> In the 70ties people thought about switching amplifiers.
> I.e. DAC amplifiers. The audio chain would be digital up to
> the speakers. Are there any reasonable advances/designs
> today?
>
> m.c.
>




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Fri May 12 20:08:27 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:08:27 -0700
Subject: Harmonic Sweetener Schematic MSword
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18C2@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Thanks for the circuit. Reading through text, I was amazed about how the circuit
"didn't work like theirs" and at the same time "violates their patent". Lawyers
are in their own little world...


Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     





From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Fri May 12 20:39:05 2000
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:39:05 -0700
Subject: MIDI-to-CV converters
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000512113905.00706bcc@popserv.ucop.edu>

I've been messing around with modifications to the SIEL DK-600 (splitting
the controls for LFOs I & II, adding external audio inputs, etc), and
noticed that, like other early MIDI synths (the SCI Six-Trak comes to
mind), this one converts MIDI information -- either incoming through the
port, or from the internal CPU board -- into analog control voltages;  the
DK-600 provides six perfectly useful pitch cvs, dynamics cvs and gates that
can drive external analog instruments.  The only problem with this
particular synth is the rotating note assignment, which makes it difficult
to use when driving something like a Pro-One.

My question is:  has anyone out there ever tried something like this with
the Six-Trak or some other early MIDI synth that employed MONO mode?  (sold
all my Six-Traks some time ago;  never got a chance to try this out).

~G~ 



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Fri May 12 21:56:22 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:56:22 EDT
Subject: MIDI-to-CV converters
Message-ID: <20.5d28db6.264dbbe6@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/12/00 10:30:28 AM, you wrote:

<<I've been messing around with modifications to the SIEL DK-600 (splitting
the controls for LFOs I & II, adding external audio inputs, etc), and
noticed that, like other early MIDI synths (the SCI Six-Trak comes to
mind), this one converts MIDI information -- either incoming through the
port, or from the internal CPU board -- into analog control voltages;  the
DK-600 provides six perfectly useful pitch cvs, dynamics cvs and gates that
can drive external analog instruments.  The only problem with this
particular synth is the rotating note assignment, which makes it difficult
to use when driving something like a Pro-One.

My question is:  has anyone out there ever tried something like this with
the Six-Trak or some other early MIDI synth that employed MONO mode?  (sold
all my Six-Traks some time ago;  never got a chance to try this out).>>

Have you actually tried driving a VCO with those filter CV's?  If you did try 
it, you probably noticed that the pitch tracking was not exactly perfectly in 
tune, nor was it stable over time.  These pitch CV circuits found in 
DCO-based synths are usually not that useful for driving oscillators, unless 
you don't care about tuning accuracy.  These CV's are not really designed for 
accurate tuning, since they don't have to drive oscillators, per se.  Also, 
it's typical that the filter pitch CV signal is pre-summed (in software) with 
other CV's that are intended for the filter, such as cutoff freq., velocity 
CV, and envelope CV.  (this may not be the case with the DK600, since it has 
hardware envelope generators, but it's certainly true of most of the others, 
such as the Oberheim Matrix 6/1000, Roland Juno 106, JX3P, JX8P, JX10, etc.)

In the case of the Sequential Six-Trak (and its derivatives such as the Max 
and the Split-Eight), the VCO pitch CV that they are using in there is not 1 
volt per octave - it's something like around 0.5 volts per octave.  This, 
presumably, was done so that they could keep all their CV's within a 0 to 5 
volt range, but still have around ten octaves of pitch range.  So, you'd have 
to figure out some way to scale that signal for your external synths.  
Scaling that CV to a larger factor wouldn't be all that difficult, but a 
larger problem would soon become apparent:  These synths, which have real 
VCO's (Curtis all-in-one VCO/VCF/VCA chips), also have an auto-tune system 
that actually measures the output of each VCO at various pitch intervals 
(about three intervals per octave), and then it creates a table of pitch CV 
offset corrections for EACH VCO that corresponds to the measured inaccuracies 
of each VCO at all those various intervals.  It then applies these offsets to 
the final CV for each VCO.  This means that if you tried to use one of those 
CV's to drive an external oscillator, the autotune system would be applying 
whatever weird offsets the internal oscillators were requiring at that moment 
to the external VCO.  The likelihood that the external VCO would play in tune 
with those offsets would be very, very slim.

On possible solution to this dilemma would be to have the autotune measure 
the pitch output of the external VCO's, rather that the internal ones.  This 
could be done by disconnecting the internal VCO's from the point in the 
circuit where the CPU looks at their current pitches, and connecting the 
square wave outputs of your external VCO's there instead.  This way, the 
autotune system would create offset tables that would match your external 
VCO's (and if you're using more than one VCO per voice, you'd better make 
sure the scaling of the VCO's in each voice is PERFECTLY matched, or the 
autotune will throw the voice out of tune with itself).

You'd also need to make some kind of muting circuit for your external synth, 
so that it wouldn't make all that godawful racket while the autotuning 
operation is being done (a few seconds of weird pitch bleeps, sweeping 
several times from the bottom to the top of the pitch ranges of each VCO - at 
full volume, of course!).  There would be some other pesky housekeeping 
details as well, to make such a system work - I won't go into all of them now.

Furthermore, those Sequential instruments also pre-sum several various 
parameter CV's into the one final analog CV that is sent to the VCO (and one 
CV for the VCF, etc.).  This summed CV could include pitch bend, LFO, octave 
range, envelope output, velocity output, etc..  These additional CV signals 
may or may not be useful for your external synth (especially the ones for the 
filter).

Also, since the Six-Trak's envelopes are created in software, the instrument 
has no actual gate signal anywhere inside it that you could tap into to drive 
your external synth.  The only solution would be to set program the 
Six-Trak's VCA envelope to a "square" organ-type envelope, and use the VCA CV 
as your gate signal.  (this might make it difficult to utilize any velocity 
CV that the Six-Trak might be able to provide, though)

The one advantage the Sequential instruments would have, if you tried to use 
them as MIDI to CV converters, is that they can be put into MIDI Mono Mode, 
which would allow you to have them receive on six separate MIDI channels for 
six separate external voices, eliminating the rotating voice allocation 
problem that the DK600 would have.

Nevertheless, unless you already have an old broken-down Six-Trak sitting 
around, and you're really itching to take on this sort of challenge, it would 
probably be more cost effective and reliable to go out and spend the $600.00 
on one of the cuurently available top-of-the-line polyphonic MIDI-to-CV 
converters, such as the Kenton or Encore Electronics units.  (Six-Traks are 
going for about $300 on Ebay these days, not that they are worth it...)

Michael Bacich



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Fri May 12 22:07:49 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:07:49 EDT
Subject: inverse response speaker flattening
Message-ID: <64.2a6a3a6.264dbe95@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/12/00 4:45:39 AM, you wrote:

<<BTW:  My little Stewart "switching power supply" amp does not
hold a candle to my (linear) JBL. The band CAN tell the difference.
OTOH: If I had to choose one to go swimming with....>>

Yeah, I always take a power amp with me whenever I go for a dip.

Harry, I'm guessing that you have one of those little half-rack Stewart amps 
(PA50/PA100/PA200).  They don't really pack much of a wallop for live use, 
though they make great little project studio amps.  You ought to try one of 
Stewart's larger units (PA1200, PA2400, etc.).  You might then change your 
tune about amps with switching power supplies.  Those suckers can REALLY push 
some big air - and they're also not too bad as swimming accessories.

Michael B.



From psytech at online.ru  Fri May 12 22:41:10 2000
From: psytech at online.ru (Aleksei S)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:41:10 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] 909 schematicz
Message-ID: <20010909203116Z770874-2057+17449@ajax2.sovam.com>

bom shankar..

just link to the 909 voice board _full_ schematics:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/janne.husu/specs.html


aleksei s.


From thelab at sprint.ca  Sat May 13 00:33:12 2000
From: thelab at sprint.ca (|||| Philip ||||)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:33:12 -0300
Subject: Moog Prodigy Schematics
References: <006d01bfbb7e$83a0f360$79c809c0@20a3u>
Message-ID: <007101bfbc62$104a87c0$932167d1@philip>

http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive/manuals/moog/index.html
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gerry Dahl 
  To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl 
  Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 4:23 PM
  Subject: Moog Prodigy Schematics


  Hi Everyone,

  I'm looking for the early version of Moog Prodigy schematics.

  If anyone has a line on some this would be great!

  Thanks.
  Gerry Dahl
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From jlarryh at iquest.net  Sat May 13 02:12:23 2000
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:12:23 -0500
Subject: MIDI-to-CV converters
Message-ID: <200005130235.EAA26137@node12b53.a2000.nl>

Funny that rotating note assignment is a difficulty for you (but, I
understand why).  One of the things I dislike about my Kenton pro-2000 is
the lack of rotating note assignment for the occasions where I would like
to have polyphonic modular.  What would be cool would be to hack an
interface like that with a switch so you could select the number of notes 1
through 6 in the rotation.

Larry Hendry


----------
> From: Greg Montalbano <Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu>
> To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: MIDI-to-CV converters
> Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 1:39 PM
> 
> I've been messing around with modifications to the SIEL DK-600 (splitting
> the controls for LFOs I & II, adding external audio inputs, etc), and
> noticed that, like other early MIDI synths (the SCI Six-Trak comes to
> mind), this one converts MIDI information -- either incoming through the
> port, or from the internal CPU board -- into analog control voltages; 
the
> DK-600 provides six perfectly useful pitch cvs, dynamics cvs and gates
that
> can drive external analog instruments.  The only problem with this
> particular synth is the rotating note assignment, which makes it
difficult
> to use when driving something like a Pro-One.
> 
> My question is:  has anyone out there ever tried something like this with
> the Six-Trak or some other early MIDI synth that employed MONO mode? 
(sold
> all my Six-Traks some time ago;  never got a chance to try this out).
> 
> ~G~ 



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sat May 13 03:55:10 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 21:55:10 EDT
Subject: mc1495 ic
Message-ID: <ac.501c9b5.264e0ffe@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/12/00 4:53:44 AM, you wrote:

<<This IC is used in ring-modulators (i.e. oberheim).>>

Actually, the Oberheim/Maestro Ring Modulator used the MC1496, which is still 
widely available.  However, the same circuit should also work with the MC1495.

Michael Bacich



From tom at go2net.com  Sat May 13 04:09:52 2000
From: tom at go2net.com (Tom May)
Date: 12 May 2000 19:09:52 -0700
Subject: ASM-1 Pots
In-Reply-To: Mitchell Hudson's message of "Sun, 07 May 2000 23:54:29 -0700"
References: <391664A4.CCBD575B@sirius.com>
Message-ID: <m12qRNI-0003GKC@sneetch.go2net.com>

Mitchell Hudson <mitch at sirius.com> writes:

>     I am finally finishing up my ASM-1. I building the front panel and
> am unclear as to what  values to use for the front panel pots? Any
> suggestions? I am figuring to use 100K for the fine tune pots and 1M for
> the coarse tune and then 100K for everything else?

I put quite a lot of effort into my front panel pot values and
supporting input circuitry.  You can check out my results at
http://www.you-bastards.com/asm-1/.  I'm still not happy with the LFO
control though.

fTom.



From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Sat May 13 10:03:52 2000
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 10:03:52 +0200
Subject: mc1495 ic
References: <ac.501c9b5.264e0ffe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <391D0C68.BEB0AA68@eunet.yu>

> Actually, the Oberheim/Maestro Ring Modulator used the MC1496, which is still
> widely available.  However, the same circuit should also work with the MC1495.
> 

Well, schematic available online shows 1495, not 6, and surrounding cct
and pinout proves that. Also MRM uses sinewave modulator, so RM needs
lin input wich 95 has, and 96 not, so it'd use square (which is
implemented
in NE565 chip). So, with some trimming and mods, and square modulator
it'll work.
Actually I bought 1495 few weeks ago (which suprises me that if I can
buy
it here in my blackholed country, why can't it be found in Europe?)
as I have Maestro RM clone to solder.



marjan



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sat May 13 11:27:15 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 05:27:15 EDT
Subject: mc1495 ic
Message-ID: <4e.5777f13.264e79f3@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/13/00 12:01:25 AM, you wrote:

<<Well, schematic available online shows 1495, not 6, and surrounding cct
and pinout proves that. >>

I used to own a Maestro ring mod.  It had a 1496 in it.  Maybe they switched 
sometime during production to bring costs down?  And isn't the pinout for 
both the same?

Micchael B.



From chordman at flash.net  Sat May 13 11:19:21 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:19:21
Subject: B & K Precision
Message-ID: <200005131826.NAA01150@bunyip.flash.net>

Anybody have experience with scopes from here?  Especially
low end stuff.  Digikey sells a 20mHz dual trace for about
$450.

(I know, Paul, but the hamfest location closest to me is 750 miles
away...)

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!






From hhelland at mailandnews.com  Sat May 13 13:29:00 2000
From: hhelland at mailandnews.com (Hallgeir Helland)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:29:00 +0200
Subject: Six-Trak CVs was Re: MIDI-to-CV converters
References: <3.0.3.32.20000512113905.00706bcc@popserv.ucop.edu>
Message-ID: <391D3C7C.4C10ED51@mailandnews.com>

> My question is:  has anyone out there ever tried something like this with
> the Six-Trak or some other early MIDI synth that employed MONO mode?  (sold
> all my Six-Traks some time ago;  never got a chance to try this out).

The thing with the Six-Trak is that it scales and tunes the note CVs according
to each VCO's response, so you may experience out-of-tune notes if you
just hook it up to an external VCO.
OTOH, the CEM VCOs are rather precise aren't they?

Hallgeir
-- 
HELLAND MUSIKK TEKNOLOGI
-=  Hallgeir Helland  =-
hhelland at mailandnews.com




From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Sat May 13 13:29:58 2000
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:29:58 +0200
Subject: mc1495 ic
References: <4e.5777f13.264e79f3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <391D3CB6.8647E5A0@eunet.yu>

> I used to own a Maestro ring mod.  It had a 1496 in it.  Maybe they switched
> sometime during production to bring costs down?  

Possibly...

>And isn't the pinout for
> both the same?

No? Do you maybe think of 1595?

1495
Y 4,8 ins  5,6 gain adj, 3 bias, 1 c1+c2 (+Vcc) 
X 9,12 ins , 10,11 gain adj. , 13 bias , 12,14 outs
7 (-VEE)

1496
X 4,1 ins
Y 8,10 ins
2,3 gain adj
5 bias
14 -Vee


marjan



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat May 13 15:02:46 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 15:02:46 +0200
Subject: Patent violations?!
In-Reply-To: <391A863C.7ED3@metro.net>
References: <3.0.5.32.20000511193137.008b2560@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
	<391A863C.7ED3@metro.net>
Message-ID: <20000513150246G.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: John E Blacet <blacet at metro.net>
Subject: Re: Patent violations?!
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:06:53 +0000

> IMHO: 20 years is the patent duration. (From Filing Date, I believe...)
> 
> Patents are in the public domain as far as reproduction is concerned.

Is it? I would at least spend some time ensuring myself on where the patent
document stands on the Copyright side. It is most probably so that the
copyright on the document is being passed to the patent office at the time of
filing, since otherwise they would be unable to reproduce it, but it is then
up to the patent office to decide if this has not explicitly been decided by
the copyright laws.

> I'm not sure what trouble you would get in by publishing a circuit
> derived from an active patent. Typically, if the patent holder notices
> this, they may issue a warning that the commercial use of the circuit
> may violate their patent rights. 

Publishing an article (or other form) on such a curcuit should be fine, but be
sure to properly reference the patent in question (since you have derived
information from that source) and explicitly notify the coverage of patents.
I think that if you use expired patents, it will also be usefull to do this,
thus pointing out that the patent has expired. I also think that the commercial
use part of usage is important to stress.

Once the patent has expired you are however free to use the material contained
in the patent in order to develope commercial products. This is how patents is
intended to be used.

> The key to understanding patents is that USE is protected, not the
> information. OTOH, Trade Secret laws cover the public disclosure of
> information. You would have had to sign a NDA or illegally aquired such
> information to be in trouble in this case, however.

Yes, the information contained in a patent is free from the day it is being
published by the patent office. The commercial useage is controled during the
time the patent is valid. The copyright on the actual patent document is
however a diffrent issue so direct preprints of patents is not necessarilly
free, I'd say this is something one has to investigate on per nation basis.

BTW. I think kit-selling companies/people better avoid solutions being covered
by non-expired patents.

Cheers,
Magnus



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat May 13 16:03:02 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 16:03:02 +0200
Subject: inverse response speaker flattening
In-Reply-To: <200005120554.HAA06934@ikarus.intermetall.de>
References: <200005120554.HAA06934@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <20000513160302V.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Martin Czech <czech at Micronas.Com>
Subject: inverse response speaker flattening
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:54:07 +0200 (MET DST)

Martin,

> There is one thing I wonder about:
> 
> You have music from digital sources all the way, till power amplifier. It
> would be no problem to ship a little digital in/out box with a measuring
> microphone, so that anyone can measure the frequency response of his room
> and his speakers, the box takes the inverse to filter the CD data. That
> should give an almost ideal response for that single measuring point in
> space and hopefully around it.

Yes, in theory.

> Of course, once the speakers are flattened, any personal taste could be
> applied as well (bath tub).

Uh, filled or non-filled, if filled, with or without person seated, if seated
in known position or not, if known position, foam or not foam on water, if
foam, at a known bubble size, shape and resistnese over time of listening?

> One problem could be that shitty bass chassis could not take the needed
> power...

All forms of electronic compensation eats on the overhead and noisefloor.

> I have never seen any advertisement for such an apparatus, it seems that
> something like that simply does not exist.

Well, this is not entierly true. I think I recall that Meyer had some simple
system for PA-rigs in the 80thies. Also, I recall that Adamson (another PA
speaker manufactor) was heading this way. Labbgruppen has too made efforts of
this kind with their DSP24 product as a base, it had long been in the cooking
and I never saw the full product (DSP and program) the running. Labbgruppens
efforts is based on research at Chalmers and that fellow moved his work over
to Labbgruppen. At Chalmers he did have a system operating and according to a
friend of mine being in good contact with these fellows it was a really
astonashing sound.

Now, the trouble in trying to do something like this is that you really have
to measure the sound at multiple points in the room, at multiple times with
diffrent arrangements. Also, you are best of starting to compensate for
fundamental properties of the elements, then system before you attempt to
compensate for room responce, since it is more feasable that the complexity of
the problem has been reduced using existing knowledge and it is more probable
that the end result will be good.

While it does sound very interesting to do such a thing, I think one should be
carefull in overdoing it since it can certainly bite back and there are also
the trouble how you are able to measure curtain parameters with accuracy.

> Another question:
> 
> In the 70ties people thought about switching amplifiers.
> I.e. DAC amplifiers. The audio chain would be digital up to
> the speakers. Are there any reasonable advances/designs
> today?

Even more extreme is the Philips patent where each bit controlled individual
parts of the element.

I really think the DAC followed by a linear amplifier has many benefits in
cost vs. preformance and it is not an accident why the market has reached this
solution. It is partly due to accident ofcourse ;)

Cheers,
Magnus



From patchell at silcom.com  Sat May 13 16:16:42 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 07:16:42 -0700
Subject: I'm back.
Message-ID: <391D63CA.8F7DA258@silcom.com>

    Gonna try this again.  My last post didn't show up.

    Anyway, my Email address has changed.  If you have me in your
address book as:

    patchell at teletrac.com

    You need to change it to

    patchell at silcom.com

    Also, for any who are interested, the MAT04's that I have on order
should be here around Thursday (UPS tracking numbers are great).

-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat May 13 16:18:02 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 16:18:02 +0200
Subject: Patent violations?!
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20000511111010.00e41d58@popa.melbpc.org.au>
References: <1.5.4.32.20000511111010.00e41d58@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <20000513161802Q.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
Subject: Re: Patent violations?!
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:10:10 +1000

Paul,

> http://www.audiotron.no/pro/aphex/patenter.htm
> 
> is a list of the Aphex patents, found this thru
> Google by searching on the # Tom gave..

Ah!

> Looks like we should hold a birthday party for the first one!

Given 20 years of valid time (a number that keeps poping up for US patents but
I have not verified it), this thing should have seased to protect the patent.
If so, it is free to use. However, there migth still be followup patents
outside of US which is valid.

Cheers,
Magnus



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat May 13 16:55:46 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 16:55:46 +0200
Subject: ASM-1 Pots
In-Reply-To: <m12qRNI-0003GKC@sneetch.go2net.com>
References: <391664A4.CCBD575B@sirius.com>
	<m12qRNI-0003GKC@sneetch.go2net.com>
Message-ID: <20000513165546X.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Tom May <tom at go2net.com>
Subject: Re: ASM-1 Pots
Date: 12 May 2000 19:09:52 -0700

> 
> Mitchell Hudson <mitch at sirius.com> writes:
> 
> >     I am finally finishing up my ASM-1. I building the front panel and
> > am unclear as to what  values to use for the front panel pots? Any
> > suggestions? I am figuring to use 100K for the fine tune pots and 1M for
> > the coarse tune and then 100K for everything else?
> 
> I put quite a lot of effort into my front panel pot values and
> supporting input circuitry.  You can check out my results at
> http://www.you-bastards.com/asm-1/.  I'm still not happy with the LFO
> control though.
> 
> fTom.

You can now find Tom's ASM-1 site linked in from my ASM-1 homepage.

Please let me know if there are more ASM-1 pages to be linked in.

Cheers,
Magnus



From debus at cityweb.de  Sat May 13 18:39:37 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:39:37 +0200
Subject: Touch switch, was: Possibly goofy idea...
References: <200005101437.JAA07676@chupacabras.flash.net>
Message-ID: <391D8549.4B8C0BC3@cityweb.de>



Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> 
> Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
> work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?

Here's my circuit:

       Vdd
        |
        -
       | | 10MOhm
       | |
        -     1/6 40106              1/6 40106
        |        |\                     |\
o-------+--------| o--->|----+----+-----| o---o Output
Touch            |/  1N4148  |    |     |/
plate                        -    |
                            | |  ---
                    470kOhm | |  --- 0.1uF
                             -    |
                             |    |
                            GND  GND

The idea was, when the touch plate is touched, there's a high impedance
DC path to ground, so the first Schmitt-Trigger/inverter sees logic 0 at
its input. This requires that the person who touches the plate needs to
touch something at ground level too (this is how the AKAI Wind
Controllers work I think). However, since the input imedance is so high,
there so much mains hum that there's a nice 50 Hz rectangle at the
output of the first inverter as soon as someone touches the input in
most cases. This is what the second stage is for: as soon as the
rectangle at the first inverter's output appears the output of the
second inverter goes low. This even works without galvanic contact to
the touch plate: its sufficient to grab the insulated wire to the touch
plate with the hand (just touching it with the tip of a finger doesn't
work, though). So yes, coating the touch plate with insulating laquer
could work, if there's enough mains hum around... might not work when
the device is battery powered and operated outside ;-). It's not
necessary to touch something at ground level the same time. Perhaps its
necessary that the circuit's GND is connected to mains earth - didn't
try without that connection, since I used a scope to monitor the output.

I breadboarded the circuit first, this worked well. Small parasitic
capacitances don't seem to matter. I tried a 4049 instead of a 40106, this
worked too, but the 4049 has a strange pinout.

> ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the
> pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?

Well, I just forgot to do anything for ESD protection. Perhaps it's a
good idea to insert an 1 MOhm resistor in series with the input of the
first inverter.

Ingo





From debus at cityweb.de  Sat May 13 18:53:42 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:53:42 +0200
Subject: grounding questions...
References: <00ab01bfb9c0$0d82d280$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>
	 <005901bfb9e5$258cd860$7535883e@default> <3.0.5.32.20000511192346.008b2390@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <391D8895.1672A9D4@cityweb.de>



Ren? Schmitz wrote:
> 
> At 15:25 10.05.00 +0200, Ingo Debus wrote:
> >
> >
> >Tony Allgood wrote:
> >>It must be said that in the UK all metal cases/parts that are
> >> touchable by the user have to be directly connected to earth in any
> >> mains powered unit.
> >
> >What about the tip of a phone jack (when the other end of the cable is
> >plugged into a mains powered unit)?
> >
> >;-)
> 
> In essence this is connected to ground via the output of the circuit.
> I think there needs only be a conductive path to mains GND

This is no 'direct' connection, there are electronic parts in between.
If there's an accidental connection between the live line and some point
in the circuit no-one can guarantee that these parts are fried before
the circuit breaker trips.

> , so that no
> parts can (e.g. capacitively) charge up to dangerous voltages.

Well this would need a fairly large capacitance to become dangerous (or
a really high voltage as in CRTs). In EMI mains filters there are
Y-capacitors between live and chassis of several nF.

Ingo




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat May 13 19:48:26 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:48:26 +0200
Subject: grounding questions...
In-Reply-To: <391D8895.1672A9D4@cityweb.de>
References: <00ab01bfb9c0$0d82d280$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>
 <005901bfb9e5$258cd860$7535883e@default>
 <3.0.5.32.20000511192346.008b2390@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000513194826.00943490@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 18:53 13.05.00 +0200, you wrote:
>Ren? Schmitz wrote:
>> At 15:25 10.05.00 +0200, Ingo Debus wrote:
>> >What about the tip of a phone jack (when the other end of the cable is
>> >plugged into a mains powered unit)?
>> >
>> >;-)
>> 
>> In essence this is connected to ground via the output of the circuit.
>> I think there needs only be a conductive path to mains GND
>
>This is no 'direct' connection, there are electronic parts in between.
>If there's an accidental connection between the live line and some point
>in the circuit no-one can guarantee that these parts are fried before
>the circuit breaker trips.

In the case of failure in a device whose chassis is connected to GND,
nothing ensures as well that you don't get fried touching the case until
the circuit 
breaker trips! (Or the fault current interruptor if there is one!)

I believe to recall that a device which doesn't have double insulated PSU 
musn't have any external connections (exept where these are not
galvanically coupled)! 
The point would be that we must use double insulated transformers/PSUs anyway.
The GND connection is merely an extra. And then its safe for the tip not to
be grounded. 

But as Tony already pointed out: classification of our homebrew devices is
difficult, I guess most falls inbetween class 1 and 2 with a questionable
safety.

Bye,
 Ren?

-- 
transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat May 13 19:48:43 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:48:43 +0200
Subject: Patent violations?!
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000513194843.00945ea0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

Hi!

Thanks for all your responses!

It seems that the patents in question are still active, so at 
this time I won't make an attempt to publish circuits that are 
based on these. Not only because of possible legal actions, but 
rather that I'd feel doing something wrong putting up something 
which is to a large fraction protected. (and thereby advicing 
people how to exploit the inventors)

I haven't checked on all other of "my" designs of course, but given 
that usually the "inspirational" source was in the public domain and 
free of rights (which I assume to be true for circuits published on 
the web already), I think it is ok.

Bye,
 Ren?



-- 
transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat May 13 20:45:02 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:45:02 +0200
Subject: AW: mc1495 ic
References: <ac.501c9b5.264e0ffe@aol.com> <391D0C68.BEB0AA68@eunet.yu>
Message-ID: <001101bfbd18$7ed7cd40$d038363e@jhaible>

> Also MRM uses sinewave modulator, so RM needs
> lin input wich 95 has, and 96 not, so it'd use square (which is
> implemented
> in NE565 chip


I don't know anything about the Oberheim RM. But in general,
the 1496 can surely be used with sine carrier. It's just that the
carrier input is not linearized, so you either keep the amplitude
down to 20mV, or you feed a triangle wave into the input with
90mV, to have it crudely shaped to a sine wave by the 1496.
(If you can live with 3% THD)

[Just to avoid confusion, what I've done in my Frequency Shifter
is another (different) option: I did the sine shaping with the
*linear* input (by carefully selecting the gain and overdrive)
which results in lower THD. Then I used the carrier input
(the nonlinear one) for the signal (<20mV).]

What I described in the first paragraph, carrier input <20mV,
modulator input linear, is what I've sucessfully tried in the JH-3
ringmodulator and in the Synthi Clone. I think several Roland
synths used this simple scheme as well. And the original VCS3
RM is basically the same circuit built from transistor arrays.

I don't remember who brought up the rectangular modulator
stuff (and I'm sure there is such a background in RF devices
that do work with switching modulators), but it definitely
works with any kind of signals. It's just the usual stuff of linearized
vs. non-linearized inputs, like CA3080 vs. CA3280 for instance.
Noise, THD, offset voltage compromise.
In the JH-3 ring modulator, I used the nonlinear inputs of the 1496
for an (optional) overdrive feature. Resistor divider scaled to allow
much higher levels than 20mV, and input attenuator pot to tame the
levels for linear operation. Not as noise-free as a 1495 I bet, but
good enough for my needs.

JH.







From CasioRZ1 at aol.com  Sat May 13 23:09:40 2000
From: CasioRZ1 at aol.com (CasioRZ1 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 17:09:40 EDT
Subject: Touch Switches/TS instruments (was:  Possibly goofy idea)
Message-ID: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com>

Hi all,

(beware, this is kinda long winded :-)

Allright, I missed the first part of this post, but regarding the PAiA touch 
switches, they work really well.  In fact, I built a whole instrument out of 
'em.  

Basically, I wanted a way to be able to add a live element to my sets (I play 
mostly jungle/drum n' bass and trance type stuff) but I suck at playing 
keyboards.  However, I've been playing guitar a long time, so after countless 
dissapointments with modern guitar synths (Axon, roland, et al), I just 
decided to build my own.  

If you've tried guitar synths, you know that the problem w/tracking comes 
from having the synth try to read and convert the pitch of the string, which 
is gonna take a little time even in the best case scenario.  My solution is 
to ditch the strings... hey, if I wanted guitar type sounds, I'd just play my 
guitar!   

Sooo (inching slowly to the point) I found that PAiA touchswitch schem (thank 
you PAiA!) and I found a keyboard schematic on TomG's site (again, thank you 
TomG).  Initially, I was going to combine the two to be able to send CV by 
hooking the touch switches up to relays that connected to the resistor bridge 
thingy (sorry for my crappy terminology, I know very little about 
electronics).  I hooked the whole thing up, and hey, it worked!  Pressing 
different touch switches would make the resistance across the bridge change.  
  

So, then I was going to build a Mad Mouse to control, but I encountered 
<a href="http://www.geopath.com/~jraden/knobs.html">this guy's project</a>,
which used a basic stamp to read pots and then send midi controller info.  
Since my touchswitch instrument is basically just a gradiated pot anyway, I 
decided I could probably do the same thing except send note info.

And... it works!  Really, really well, in fact.  It "tracks" better than any 
guitar synth I've ever used, but it is limited.  First, it's monophonic 
(which is what I wanted at the time, but I'm working on another one that is 
six note poly). it's not velocity sensitive, and there's no string trigger so 
you can't do pick style triplets (working on that too).  But, there is a cool 
joystick on it that sends filter and cutoff controllers (since your right 
hand isn't doing anything anyway :-)   

Here's a page w/a couple pics.  Yes, my wiring is awful, and it looks pretty 
odd... but it works really well, and hey, it's my first electronics project!
http://members.aol.com/casiorz1/mono.html
<a href="http://members.aol.com/casiorz1/mono.html">yup, here it is</a>

BTW, in my experience, the touchswitches were *much* less reliable on a 
solderless breadboard than when put upon a piece of protoboard.

BTW BTW, qprox.com sells touch switch ICs.  Much less wiring would be 
invloved w/these than the PAiA circuit.  I've ordered some from 'em, but I've 
yet to receive them.  I'll let the list know how they work out.

Thanks for reading!

Derek
casiorz1 at aol.com

In a message dated 5/10/2000 3:29:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
sdcurtin at lucent.com writes:

<< Subj:     RE: Possibly goofy idea...
 Date:  5/10/2000 3:29:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time
 From:  sdcurtin at lucent.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
 Sender:    owner-synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
 To:    chordman at flash.net, synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl, uzs159 at uni-bonn.de 
('Ren? Schmitz'), honcho at paia.com ('honcho at paia.com')
 
 I tried the circuits on that page and couldn't get them to work, at least on
 a protoboard.   Maybe I'm too much of a digital guy :).   This is why an
 experimenter's kit with a working circuit board of these things, with the
 pads right on the board, would be a great thing (hint, hint).
 
 Steve C
 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Steven Curtin  
 Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
 ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
 http://curtin.emf.org
 sdcurtin at lucent.com
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 > ----------
 > From:    Ren? Schmitz[SMTP:uzs159 at uni-bonn.de]
 > Sent:    Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4:40 PM
 > To:  chordman at flash.net; synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
 > Subject:     RE: Possibly goofy idea...
 > 
 > At 07:30 10.05.00, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
 > >Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
 > >work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
 > >ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the 
 > >pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?
 > 
 > Hi Scott!
 > 
 > The relevant link here is: http://www.paia.com/touchsw.htm
 > I haven't tried it, if you do let us all know.
 > 
 > Bye,
 >  Ren?
 > 
 > 
 > transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
 > isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
 > obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz
 > 
 >>



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sun May 14 00:28:40 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 00:28:40 +0200
Subject: AW: mc1495 ic
In-Reply-To: <001101bfbd18$7ed7cd40$d038363e@jhaible>
References: <ac.501c9b5.264e0ffe@aol.com>
 <391D0C68.BEB0AA68@eunet.yu>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000514002840.00809750@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 20:45 13.05.00 +0200, jhaible wrote:
>I don't remember who brought up the rectangular modulator
>stuff (and I'm sure there is such a background in RF devices
>that do work with switching modulators),

RF-people have steep filters at hand to filter any unwanted "harmonics"
(rather additional sidebands) away. So they don't need a linear carrier input.

> but it definitely
>works with any kind of signals. It's just the usual stuff of linearized
>vs. non-linearized inputs, like CA3080 vs. CA3280 for instance.
>Noise, THD, offset voltage compromise.

This brings up an interesting thought again: If one is after a more linear 
RM one could apply a diode-linearization externally to the MC1496. There is a 
linearization network made out ouf a CA3046 shown in Harris AN6077 Figure 6. 
It seems to be similar to the linearization of BA6110 or CA3280. 

Bye,
 Ren?





-- 
transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From matti at devo.com  Sun May 14 01:00:22 2000
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:00:22 -0500
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
In-Reply-To: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com>
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com>

Okay, this is even more off the topic, but casio's post brought something up: 
have you ever considered using a MIDI-guitar (not sure of the real name)? It's 
(those that I've seen, anyway) as follows: laser beams are emitted from the 
bridge, and picked up just before the neckboard; if one of the beams is blocked, 
an output is sent via MIDI, indicating that a note has been hit. Note control is 
done via four sets of keys replacing the frets on the neckboard. Now, assuming 
that you've equipped your modular with a MIDI->CV (or are using a modular 
emulator on your computer), this has a certain amount of potential.

ONly problem here, is that they are moderately expensive. Which brings me to a 
more relevant point -------> does anybody know of any schematics for such a 
device? I've looked myself, and not found any (the lasers may be a problem.....)


Quoting CasioRZ1 at aol.com:

> Hi all,
> 
> (beware, this is kinda long winded :-)
> 
> Allright, I missed the first part of this post, but regarding the PAiA
> touch 
> switches, they work really well.  In fact, I built a whole instrument
> out of 
> 'em.  
> 
> Basically, I wanted a way to be able to add a live element to my sets (I
> play 
> mostly jungle/drum n' bass and trance type stuff) but I suck at playing 
> keyboards.  However, I've been playing guitar a long time, so after
> countless 
> dissapointments with modern guitar synths (Axon, roland, et al), I just 
> decided to build my own.  
> 
> If you've tried guitar synths, you know that the problem w/tracking
> comes 
> from having the synth try to read and convert the pitch of the string,
> which 
> is gonna take a little time even in the best case scenario.  My solution
> is 
> to ditch the strings... hey, if I wanted guitar type sounds, I'd just
> play my 
> guitar!   
> 
> Sooo (inching slowly to the point) I found that PAiA touchswitch schem
> (thank 
> you PAiA!) and I found a keyboard schematic on TomG's site (again, thank
> you 
> TomG).  Initially, I was going to combine the two to be able to send CV
> by 
> hooking the touch switches up to relays that connected to the resistor
> bridge 
> thingy (sorry for my crappy terminology, I know very little about 
> electronics).  I hooked the whole thing up, and hey, it worked! 
> Pressing 
> different touch switches would make the resistance across the bridge
> change.  
>   
> 
> So, then I was going to build a Mad Mouse to control, but I encountered 
> <a href="http://www.geopath.com/~jraden/knobs.html">this guy's
> project</a>,
> which used a basic stamp to read pots and then send midi controller
> info.  
> Since my touchswitch instrument is basically just a gradiated pot
> anyway, I 
> decided I could probably do the same thing except send note info.
> 
> And... it works!  Really, really well, in fact.  It "tracks" better than
> any 
> guitar synth I've ever used, but it is limited.  First, it's monophonic 
> (which is what I wanted at the time, but I'm working on another one that
> is 
> six note poly). it's not velocity sensitive, and there's no string
> trigger so 
> you can't do pick style triplets (working on that too).  But, there is a
> cool 
> joystick on it that sends filter and cutoff controllers (since your
> right 
> hand isn't doing anything anyway :-)   
> 
> Here's a page w/a couple pics.  Yes, my wiring is awful, and it looks
> pretty 
> odd... but it works really well, and hey, it's my first electronics
> project!
> http://members.aol.com/casiorz1/mono.html
> <a href="http://members.aol.com/casiorz1/mono.html">yup, here it is</a>
> 
> BTW, in my experience, the touchswitches were *much* less reliable on a 
> solderless breadboard than when put upon a piece of protoboard.
> 
> BTW BTW, qprox.com sells touch switch ICs.  Much less wiring would be 
> invloved w/these than the PAiA circuit.  I've ordered some from 'em, but
> I've 
> yet to receive them.  I'll let the list know how they work out.
> 
> Thanks for reading!
> 
> Derek
> casiorz1 at aol.com
> 
> In a message dated 5/10/2000 3:29:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
> sdcurtin at lucent.com writes:
> 
> << Subj:     RE: Possibly goofy idea...
>  Date:  5/10/2000 3:29:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time
>  From:  sdcurtin at lucent.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
>  Sender:    owner-synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
>  To:    chordman at flash.net, synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl,
> uzs159 at uni-bonn.de 
> ('Ren? Schmitz'), honcho at paia.com ('honcho at paia.com')
>  
>  I tried the circuits on that page and couldn't get them to work, at
> least on
>  a protoboard.   Maybe I'm too much of a digital guy :).   This is why
> an
>  experimenter's kit with a working circuit board of these things, with
> the
>  pads right on the board, would be a great thing (hint, hint).
>  
>  Steve C
>  
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  Steven Curtin  
>  Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
>  ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
>  http://curtin.emf.org
>  sdcurtin at lucent.com
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  
>  > ----------
>  > From:    Ren? Schmitz[SMTP:uzs159 at uni-bonn.de]
>  > Sent:    Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4:40 PM
>  > To:  chordman at flash.net; synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
>  > Subject:     RE: Possibly goofy idea...
>  > 
>  > At 07:30 10.05.00, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>  > >Touch switches!  Didn't I read here that a CMOS gate input can
>  > >work as a touch switch?  If so, are there biasing requirements?
>  > >ESD protection things?  Output conditioning?  Could I make the 
>  > >pads by etching a board and coating it with clear lacquer?
>  > 
>  > Hi Scott!
>  > 
>  > The relevant link here is: http://www.paia.com/touchsw.htm
>  > I haven't tried it, if you do let us all know.
>  > 
>  > Bye,
>  >  Ren?
>  > 
>  > 
>  > transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
>  > isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
>  > obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz
>  > 
>  >>
> 



From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun May 14 01:34:33 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 01:34:33 +0200
Subject: grounding questions...
References: <00ab01bfb9c0$0d82d280$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org><005901bfb9e5$258cd860$7535883e@default><3.0.5.32.20000511192346.008b2390@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <3.0.5.32.20000513194826.00943490@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <016901bfbd33$cb9e6380$0400a8c0@Theo>


----- Original Message -----
From: Ren? Schmitz <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de>
To: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: grounding questions...


>
> But as Tony already pointed out: classification of our homebrew devices is
> difficult, I guess most falls inbetween class 1 and 2 with a questionable
> safety.
>
> Bye,
>  Ren?
>
I don't get this, the classification rules are plain simple.
For everyone who got confused here are some practical rules.
(I'am thinking mainly about the less experienced list members here)
Some details are omitted to keep things simple.

Class I:
-Minimum distance bedween the primairy sercuit (mains) and enclosure; 3mm.
-Minimun distance beween secondairy circuit and enclosure; 6mm.
-A classI or II transformer may be used.
-All conductive touchable parts must be grounded to the mains GND,
this includes the enclosure.
-Connectors don't have to be grounded, if a classII transformer is used.
-The device must have a mains connector with GND connection.

Class II:
-Mininum distance bedween primairy circuit and enclosure; 6mm.
-Minimun distance beween secondairy circuit and enclosure; 6mm.
-A class II transformer it used.
-The mains connector has no GND connection and is "one part" with the power
lead to the divice.
-Secondairy ground may be touchable.
-No grounding of touchable conductive parts is needed.

Just to be on the save side:
-A classII transformer is used.
-A double main switch classII is used.
-A primairy fuse is used, even if the transformer is short proof and a
double main switch is employed.

This information is by no means complete.
There are a lot "if and then's" that are not considered here.
When the Class I or II AND the "just to be on the save side" rules are
followed the device will qualify for the intended class.

For details see NEN3544 or equivalent DIN (sorry don't know the DIN number).
The 3mm and 6mm rules are a practical implementation from the test voltages
rated in the NEN norm.
The UK norm may slightly differ from that of the rest of europe.

The rules listed here are derivated from the safety chapter of a DIY book,
don't know which 'cause I've only a few zeroxes of the intresting parts.
Elector frequently prints a list with safety rules, so far I know these
compare to what I listed abouve.


Hope this will be usefull to someone.
Regards Theo






From matti at devo.com  Sun May 14 01:53:09 2000
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:53:09 -0500
Subject: 2K2?
Message-ID: <958261989.391deae5d3dc8@whipit.devo.com>

okay, now I'm feeling silly, but I have no idea what 2K2 means, in the context 
of a resistor. (or 2M2, for that matter)

at http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555ex6.gif, (no, I _do_ like the 555, 
and I need the practice), the very upper left hand resistor says 2K2 for it's 
value. What's this mean?

many thanks.



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sun May 14 02:17:47 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:17:47 +0200
Subject: 2K2?
In-Reply-To: <958261989.391deae5d3dc8@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000514021747.00946310@mailout.uni-bonn.de>


2k2 translates to 2.2k, this saves a byte ;-) 

At 18:53 13.05.00 -0500, matti at devo.com wrote:
>okay, now I'm feeling silly, but I have no idea what 2K2 means, in the
context 
>of a resistor. (or 2M2, for that matter)
>
>at http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555ex6.gif, (no, I _do_ like the
555, 
>and I need the practice), the very upper left hand resistor says 2K2 for
it's 
>value. What's this mean?
>
>many thanks.
>
-- 
transconductance | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
isfutilepreparet | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
obeassimilated.. | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz




From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun May 14 02:24:05 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:24:05 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo>

Lasers? Good havens you sure like it the hard way.
Chances are that the lasers will play like shit, because you won't be able
to feel them.
What about short strings;
1) simple approach, non velo: connect short string to a micro switch,
2) elegant approach, velo sens: measrue the string movement and translate
that into a triger pulse.
The srting may be stif pices of metal, like on the Digitar.

If you only want CV control the whole thing could analog, no midi needed.

When midi output is no problem you may want to check out the Casio midi
guitar (the japanece Casio from the wimpy keyboards).
Not sure if they still make them.
It has a rubber fret board with no strings and rubber ribs as string
triggers, althoug I saw a model that used 5inch "real" strings as triggers
once.

Cheers Theo


----- Original Message -----
From: <matti at devo.com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 1:00 AM
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )


> Okay, this is even more off the topic, but casio's post brought something
up:
> have you ever considered using a MIDI-guitar (not sure of the real name)?
It's
> (those that I've seen, anyway) as follows: laser beams are emitted from
the
> bridge, and picked up just before the neckboard; if one of the beams is
blocked,
> an output is sent via MIDI, indicating that a note has been hit. Note
control is
> done via four sets of keys replacing the frets on the neckboard. Now,
assuming
> that you've equipped your modular with a MIDI->CV (or are using a modular
> emulator on your computer), this has a certain amount of potential.
>
> ONly problem here, is that they are moderately expensive. Which brings me
to a
> more relevant point -------> does anybody know of any schematics for such
a
> device? I've looked myself, and not found any (the lasers may be a
problem.....)
>
>





From voltagecontrolled at home.com  Sun May 14 02:38:02 2000
From: voltagecontrolled at home.com (Buck Buchanan)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 17:38:02 -0700
Subject: B & K Precision
References: <200005131826.NAA01150@bunyip.flash.net>
Message-ID: <391DF56A.84FCA66D@home.com>

Hi Scott and all,

A friend of mine has all kinds of older/inexpensive B & K scopes in his
audio repair shop and they seem to have been good, long term, basic
performers.  That doesn't necessarily say anything about the newest
ones.  The Hitachi V212 (I think that's the model, the # is at least
right) is similar in features and can still be found for $399.00 USD in
some places.  I bought one of those new in '88 and it's still on the
bench doing fine.  Don't forget the $300 30MHz dual trace job at Circuit
Specialists - don't have any first hand experience with these though. 
"Manufactured by leading OEM manufacturer..." they say.

None of these are in the league of a Tek 465 or similar... however being
new there (should be) is less of a gamble factor.

Enjoy,

Buck

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> 
> Anybody have experience with scopes from here?  Especially
> low end stuff.  Digikey sells a 20mHz dual trace for about
> $450.
> 
> (I know, Paul, but the hamfest location closest to me is 750 miles
> away...)
> 
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
> -- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!



From patchell at silcom.com  Sun May 14 02:43:32 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 17:43:32 -0700
Subject: B & K Precision
References: <200005131826.NAA01150@bunyip.flash.net>
Message-ID: <391DF6B4.3725AEDC@silcom.com>

    Actually, we have quite a few of these at work.  No problems with
the scopes themselves (they are still cheap scopes afterall).  Some of
them have been around longer than I have been there (8 years).  They are
pretty badly beat up from being man handled and still work.

    -Jim

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> Anybody have experience with scopes from here?  Especially
> low end stuff.  Digikey sells a 20mHz dual trace for about
> $450.
>
> (I know, Paul, but the hamfest location closest to me is 750 miles
> away...)
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
> -- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From thescum at surfree.com  Sun May 14 03:19:08 2000
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:19:08 -0400
Subject: B & K Precision
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000514011908.0098a684@smtp.surfree.com>

>Anybody have experience with scopes from here?  Especially
>low end stuff.  Digikey sells a 20mHz dual trace for about
>$450.

I've got a very old B&K...probably 10-15 years old, but that's just a guess.
It's got dual traces, and tops out at a whoppin' 10 MHz.  

It works fine...as I've wsaid before, the only troubles I have with it are
the cheap probes I'm using, and I always forget to AC or DC couple the
inputs after looking at ground.

For DIY work, it does me well...all types of analog circuits, plus the
occaisonal small microprocessor system.  Nothing fancy, but what it's got
works when I need it.

Byron 




From psnow at magma.ca  Sun May 14 05:54:41 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 23:54:41 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca>

Theo,

Perhaps you are thinking of the Casio DG-10. It has the nylon strings
that trigger the sounds.  Also has the rubber fingerboard that detects
which note you are fingering. The strings run the whole length of the
neck back to the "bridge", just like a real guitar but they play no part
in the note generation, they just act as triggers. No dynamics either,
i.e. it doesn't matter how hard you hit the string, it plays the note at
the same volume.  

Six note polyphonic, very limited number of preset sounds built-in. Also
has rhythm section and built-in Speaker. It's almost like a toy.
 
It is an interesting little beast to play, but takes a bit of getting
used to.  You cannot bend stings or do vibrato, though it can do
hammer-ons and pull-offs quite nicely. Only sound I found useful was the
jazz organ.  And no CV or trigger out, so no interfacing with other
synths, at least until you modify it!! 

I believe the Casio DG-20 is the MIDI model. I have never seen one so
maybe that is the one with the "ribs" instead of strings?

Cheers,

Peter

Theo wrote:
> 
> Lasers? Good havens you sure like it the hard way.
> Chances are that the lasers will play like shit, because you won't be able
> to feel them.
> What about short strings;
> 1) simple approach, non velo: connect short string to a micro switch,
> 2) elegant approach, velo sens: measrue the string movement and translate
> that into a triger pulse.
> The srting may be stif pices of metal, like on the Digitar.
> 
> If you only want CV control the whole thing could analog, no midi needed.
> 
> When midi output is no problem you may want to check out the Casio midi
> guitar (the japanece Casio from the wimpy keyboards).
> Not sure if they still make them.
> It has a rubber fret board with no strings and rubber ribs as string
> triggers, althoug I saw a model that used 5inch "real" strings as triggers
> once.
> 
> Cheers Theo
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <matti at devo.com>
> To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 1:00 AM
> Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> 
> > Okay, this is even more off the topic, but casio's post brought something
> up:
> > have you ever considered using a MIDI-guitar (not sure of the real name)?
> It's
> > (those that I've seen, anyway) as follows: laser beams are emitted from
> the
> > bridge, and picked up just before the neckboard; if one of the beams is
> blocked,
> > an output is sent via MIDI, indicating that a note has been hit. Note
> control is
> > done via four sets of keys replacing the frets on the neckboard. Now,
> assuming
> > that you've equipped your modular with a MIDI->CV (or are using a modular
> > emulator on your computer), this has a certain amount of potential.
> >
> > ONly problem here, is that they are moderately expensive. Which brings me
> to a
> > more relevant point -------> does anybody know of any schematics for such
> a
> > device? I've looked myself, and not found any (the lasers may be a
> problem.....)
> >
> >



From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun May 14 07:09:38 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 07:09:38 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo>

Sounds like it, maybe my memory is a little fuzzy.
Must have been somthing like 10 years ago.
tried one with no stings on the fret board I'am quite sure about that.
There was a vibrato handle and it had midi.
Remember it fun to play with, even for someone as lousy on the string as me.
Almost like a toy seems a bit like a understatement to me...

Cheers Theo.

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Snow <psnow at magma.ca>
To: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
Cc: <matti at devo.com>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )


> Theo,
>
> Perhaps you are thinking of the Casio DG-10. It has the nylon strings
> that trigger the sounds.  Also has the rubber fingerboard that detects
> which note you are fingering. The strings run the whole length of the
> neck back to the "bridge", just like a real guitar but they play no part
> in the note generation, they just act as triggers. No dynamics either,
> i.e. it doesn't matter how hard you hit the string, it plays the note at
> the same volume.
>
> Six note polyphonic, very limited number of preset sounds built-in. Also
> has rhythm section and built-in Speaker. It's almost like a toy.
>
> It is an interesting little beast to play, but takes a bit of getting
> used to.  You cannot bend stings or do vibrato, though it can do
> hammer-ons and pull-offs quite nicely. Only sound I found useful was the
> jazz organ.  And no CV or trigger out, so no interfacing with other
> synths, at least until you modify it!!
>
> I believe the Casio DG-20 is the MIDI model. I have never seen one so
> maybe that is the one with the "ribs" instead of strings?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
>
> Theo wrote:
> >
> > Lasers? Good havens you sure like it the hard way.
> > Chances are that the lasers will play like shit, because you won't be
able
> > to feel them.
> > What about short strings;
> > 1) simple approach, non velo: connect short string to a micro switch,
> > 2) elegant approach, velo sens: measrue the string movement and
translate
> > that into a triger pulse.
> > The srting may be stif pices of metal, like on the Digitar.
> >
> > If you only want CV control the whole thing could analog, no midi
needed.
> >
> > When midi output is no problem you may want to check out the Casio midi
> > guitar (the japanece Casio from the wimpy keyboards).
> > Not sure if they still make them.
> > It has a rubber fret board with no strings and rubber ribs as string
> > triggers, althoug I saw a model that used 5inch "real" strings as
triggers
> > once.
> >
> > Cheers Theo
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <matti at devo.com>
> > To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 1:00 AM
> > Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> >
> > > Okay, this is even more off the topic, but casio's post brought
something
> > up:
> > > have you ever considered using a MIDI-guitar (not sure of the real
name)?
> > It's
> > > (those that I've seen, anyway) as follows: laser beams are emitted
from
> > the
> > > bridge, and picked up just before the neckboard; if one of the beams
is
> > blocked,
> > > an output is sent via MIDI, indicating that a note has been hit. Note
> > control is
> > > done via four sets of keys replacing the frets on the neckboard. Now,
> > assuming
> > > that you've equipped your modular with a MIDI->CV (or are using a
modular
> > > emulator on your computer), this has a certain amount of potential.
> > >
> > > ONly problem here, is that they are moderately expensive. Which brings
me
> > to a
> > > more relevant point -------> does anybody know of any schematics for
such
> > a
> > > device? I've looked myself, and not found any (the lasers may be a
> > problem.....)
> > >
> > >




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun May 14 08:15:19 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:15:19 +1000
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000514061519.00e591d4@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 08:59 PM 14/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell wrote:
>Reply:   no!
>The string is shorted to the fret before AND behind the finger... so if you
>have>fretted strings on any adjacent frets they are shorted together
through the
>X (strings) Y (frets) matrix. You CANNOT isolate the strings once they
>touch>the frets...
>that's why everyone cuts the frets into pieces...

Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of logic to
say,
'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'

Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are more
than one 
touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings & they are
only 
being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points.. 
>
>Moral: everything easy has been done already !!!

CounterMoral: think harder already !!!

paul 'smartarse' perry melbourne australia 




From goku at nni.com  Sun May 14 08:30:07 2000
From: goku at nni.com (T.J.)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:30:07 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com>

Hi Everybody,
  I don't think it's a Casio DG-20. This unit
is basically the same as the DG-10 but with
MIDI out. Has nylon strings, very cool, but
toy like.

Have a pic of the DG-20 (the one on the bottom left).
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/dg20.jpg

Here' a link to the "Synthaxe". No longer in production, but
wild looking.
http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/synthaxe.html

And then there's Starr Lab's line of MIDI guitars.
http://www.catalog.com/starrlab/

And here's a german link of alternative controllers. Including a
laser harp. Strange controllers here.
http://privat.schlund.de/o/officeandtown/stoffel/alt_controller/alt_midi_controller.html

Perhaps one of these is the model you were playing?

Terry




Theo wrote:

> Sounds like it, maybe my memory is a little fuzzy.
> Must have been somthing like 10 years ago.
> tried one with no stings on the fret board I'am quite sure about that.
> There was a vibrato handle and it had midi.
> Remember it fun to play with, even for someone as lousy on the string as me.
> Almost like a toy seems a bit like a understatement to me...
>
> Cheers Theo.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Snow <psnow at magma.ca>
> To: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
> Cc: <matti at devo.com>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 5:54 AM
> Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
>
> > Theo,
> >
> > Perhaps you are thinking of the Casio DG-10. It has the nylon strings
> > that trigger the sounds.  Also has the rubber fingerboard that detects
> > which note you are fingering. The strings run the whole length of the
> > neck back to the "bridge", just like a real guitar but they play no part
> > in the note generation, they just act as triggers. No dynamics either,
> > i.e. it doesn't matter how hard you hit the string, it plays the note at
> > the same volume.
> >
> > Six note polyphonic, very limited number of preset sounds built-in. Also
> > has rhythm section and built-in Speaker. It's almost like a toy.
> >
> > It is an interesting little beast to play, but takes a bit of getting
> > used to.  You cannot bend stings or do vibrato, though it can do
> > hammer-ons and pull-offs quite nicely. Only sound I found useful was the
> > jazz organ.  And no CV or trigger out, so no interfacing with other
> > synths, at least until you modify it!!
> >
> > I believe the Casio DG-20 is the MIDI model. I have never seen one so
> > maybe that is the one with the "ribs" instead of strings?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > Theo wrote:
> > >
> > > Lasers? Good havens you sure like it the hard way.
> > > Chances are that the lasers will play like shit, because you won't be
> able
> > > to feel them.
> > > What about short strings;
> > > 1) simple approach, non velo: connect short string to a micro switch,
> > > 2) elegant approach, velo sens: measrue the string movement and
> translate
> > > that into a triger pulse.
> > > The srting may be stif pices of metal, like on the Digitar.
> > >
> > > If you only want CV control the whole thing could analog, no midi
> needed.
> > >
> > > When midi output is no problem you may want to check out the Casio midi
> > > guitar (the japanece Casio from the wimpy keyboards).
> > > Not sure if they still make them.
> > > It has a rubber fret board with no strings and rubber ribs as string
> > > triggers, althoug I saw a model that used 5inch "real" strings as
> triggers
> > > once.
> > >
> > > Cheers Theo
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <matti at devo.com>
> > > To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 1:00 AM
> > > Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> > >
> > > > Okay, this is even more off the topic, but casio's post brought
> something
> > > up:
> > > > have you ever considered using a MIDI-guitar (not sure of the real
> name)?
> > > It's
> > > > (those that I've seen, anyway) as follows: laser beams are emitted
> from
> > > the
> > > > bridge, and picked up just before the neckboard; if one of the beams
> is
> > > blocked,
> > > > an output is sent via MIDI, indicating that a note has been hit. Note
> > > control is
> > > > done via four sets of keys replacing the frets on the neckboard. Now,
> > > assuming
> > > > that you've equipped your modular with a MIDI->CV (or are using a
> modular
> > > > emulator on your computer), this has a certain amount of potential.
> > > >
> > > > ONly problem here, is that they are moderately expensive. Which brings
> me
> > > to a
> > > > more relevant point -------> does anybody know of any schematics for
> such
> > > a
> > > > device? I've looked myself, and not found any (the lasers may be a
> > > problem.....)
> > > >
> > > >






From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun May 14 15:55:00 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:55:00 +1000
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000514135500.00e4fc4c@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 09:00 AM 15/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell wrote:
>no again (quick version more later...)
>
>Think Barre Chord where a single string may be shorted to as many as
>4 places...

hmmmmm.... I guess I missed this because I'm a 'one finger' guitarist
(monosynth legacy).

My bad! Apologies if i excied anyone!

paul 'blush' perry Melbourne Australia
(who actually owns a guitar device with each fret cut into 5..
now he knows why!)




From hugo.haesaert at skynet.be  Sun May 14 16:37:15 2000
From: hugo.haesaert at skynet.be (Hugo Haesaert)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:37:15 +0100
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
In-Reply-To: <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <20000514133844.092EA1F244@apoq.skynet.be>

Hi All !

Maybe Theo meant the "UNISYNTH electronic guitar" .  That's what its 
says on the headstock .  On the body it says "XG1m electronic digital 
midi controller" .  On the back, serial no plate

designed by suzuki corporation u.s.a.
produced by comnics corporation japan
made in japan

Legending of the four knobs and touch switch panel is the other way 
up from the names, readable when the instrument is hung around one's 
neck .  Has 12 "fret" and 6 "string" rubber fretboard, touch switches 
built in, delaminates from the neck, can be pushed back on tho .  Six 
11cm long strings to trigger the midi notes .  On the "bridge" is a 
switch that, iirc, mutes sounding notes .  Below, the "whammy bar". 
The four knobs, below the bridge, control (l-r) volume, sensitivity, 
tremolo range, and sustain .  The touch switches (numerals 0-9 plus 
enter) send program changes .  Twin seven segment led readouts give 
the no .  Colour all over is black, with a red pick guard .  Takes 6 
c-size batteries or a 9-12V wart .  I let out the smoke from both a 
300mA and a 1A adaptor, so beware !!!!  After this i decided to store 
the "thing" .

Just pulled it out of storage, i did not check the battery 
compartment thoroughly enough, it seems, as gunk has spread around .  
Possibly from earlier leaking batteries . No, i did NOT leave 
batteries in there ;-)   Now i know what to do for the rest of this 
sunny sunday afternoon .

Just done a search on Google, and came up with this link :

http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/mgtr.htm

Good link, not much info on the unisynth, i'm afraid :)  And no, i 
have no access to a digital camera .

Hope this helps .

Cheers .


Keep 'em oscillating :)


Hugo
=





From psnow at magma.ca  Sun May 14 16:39:00 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:39:00 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com>
Message-ID: <391EBA84.82DB4307@magma.ca>

Hi T.J.

Wow, that first link has some weird stuff in the pic!  As an aside
though, that little red Yamaha SHS-10 (almost dead centre in the pic)
makes a neat MIDI controller.  Has toy sized keys but it does basic MIDI
out (note-on, note-off) and the pitch bender sends MIDI also.  OK, so
it's not that great really, but the deal is that you can get these
things for about $2 at garage sales, or at the end of selected driveways
on garbage pickup day!

Cheers,

Peter


"T.J." wrote:
> 
> Hi Everybody,
>   I don't think it's a Casio DG-20. This unit
> is basically the same as the DG-10 but with
> MIDI out. Has nylon strings, very cool, but
> toy like.
> 
> Have a pic of the DG-20 (the one on the bottom left).
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/dg20.jpg
> 
> Here' a link to the "Synthaxe". No longer in production, but
> wild looking.
> http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/synthaxe.html
> 
> And then there's Starr Lab's line of MIDI guitars.
> http://www.catalog.com/starrlab/
> 
> And here's a german link of alternative controllers. Including a
> laser harp. Strange controllers here.
> http://privat.schlund.de/o/officeandtown/stoffel/alt_controller/alt_midi_controller.html
> 
> Perhaps one of these is the model you were playing?
> 
> Terry
> 
> Theo wrote:
> 
> > Sounds like it, maybe my memory is a little fuzzy.
> > Must have been somthing like 10 years ago.
> > tried one with no stings on the fret board I'am quite sure about that.
> > There was a vibrato handle and it had midi.
> > Remember it fun to play with, even for someone as lousy on the string as me.
> > Almost like a toy seems a bit like a understatement to me...
> >
> > Cheers Theo.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Peter Snow <psnow at magma.ca>
> > To: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
> > Cc: <matti at devo.com>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 5:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> >
> > > Theo,
> > >
> > > Perhaps you are thinking of the Casio DG-10. It has the nylon strings
> > > that trigger the sounds.  Also has the rubber fingerboard that detects
> > > which note you are fingering. The strings run the whole length of the
> > > neck back to the "bridge", just like a real guitar but they play no part
> > > in the note generation, they just act as triggers. No dynamics either,
> > > i.e. it doesn't matter how hard you hit the string, it plays the note at
> > > the same volume.
> > >
> > > Six note polyphonic, very limited number of preset sounds built-in. Also
> > > has rhythm section and built-in Speaker. It's almost like a toy.
> > >
> > > It is an interesting little beast to play, but takes a bit of getting
> > > used to.  You cannot bend stings or do vibrato, though it can do
> > > hammer-ons and pull-offs quite nicely. Only sound I found useful was the
> > > jazz organ.  And no CV or trigger out, so no interfacing with other
> > > synths, at least until you modify it!!
> > >
> > > I believe the Casio DG-20 is the MIDI model. I have never seen one so
> > > maybe that is the one with the "ribs" instead of strings?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > Theo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Lasers? Good havens you sure like it the hard way.
> > > > Chances are that the lasers will play like shit, because you won't be
> > able
> > > > to feel them.
> > > > What about short strings;
> > > > 1) simple approach, non velo: connect short string to a micro switch,
> > > > 2) elegant approach, velo sens: measrue the string movement and
> > translate
> > > > that into a triger pulse.
> > > > The srting may be stif pices of metal, like on the Digitar.
> > > >
> > > > If you only want CV control the whole thing could analog, no midi
> > needed.
> > > >
> > > > When midi output is no problem you may want to check out the Casio midi
> > > > guitar (the japanece Casio from the wimpy keyboards).
> > > > Not sure if they still make them.
> > > > It has a rubber fret board with no strings and rubber ribs as string
> > > > triggers, althoug I saw a model that used 5inch "real" strings as
> > triggers
> > > > once.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers Theo
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <matti at devo.com>
> > > > To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 1:00 AM
> > > > Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> > > >
> > > > > Okay, this is even more off the topic, but casio's post brought
> > something
> > > > up:
> > > > > have you ever considered using a MIDI-guitar (not sure of the real
> > name)?
> > > > It's
> > > > > (those that I've seen, anyway) as follows: laser beams are emitted
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > bridge, and picked up just before the neckboard; if one of the beams
> > is
> > > > blocked,
> > > > > an output is sent via MIDI, indicating that a note has been hit. Note
> > > > control is
> > > > > done via four sets of keys replacing the frets on the neckboard. Now,
> > > > assuming
> > > > > that you've equipped your modular with a MIDI->CV (or are using a
> > modular
> > > > > emulator on your computer), this has a certain amount of potential.
> > > > >
> > > > > ONly problem here, is that they are moderately expensive. Which brings
> > me
> > > > to a
> > > > > more relevant point -------> does anybody know of any schematics for
> > such
> > > > a
> > > > > device? I've looked myself, and not found any (the lasers may be a
> > > > problem.....)
> > > > >
> > > > >



From psnow at magma.ca  Sun May 14 16:46:38 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:46:38 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <391EBC4E.76E94F36@magma.ca>

Hi Theo,

Yea, you're right. It was toy like in construction and playability but
as I seem to remember the price new was not toy like at all, even though
Radio Shack sold them!

Cheers,

Peter

Theo wrote:
> 
> Sounds like it, maybe my memory is a little fuzzy.
> Must have been somthing like 10 years ago.
> tried one with no stings on the fret board I'am quite sure about that.
> There was a vibrato handle and it had midi.
> Remember it fun to play with, even for someone as lousy on the string as me.
> Almost like a toy seems a bit like a understatement to me...
> 
> Cheers Theo.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Snow <psnow at magma.ca>
> To: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
> Cc: <matti at devo.com>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 5:54 AM
> Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> 
> > Theo,
> >
> > Perhaps you are thinking of the Casio DG-10. It has the nylon strings
> > that trigger the sounds.  Also has the rubber fingerboard that detects
> > which note you are fingering. The strings run the whole length of the
> > neck back to the "bridge", just like a real guitar but they play no part
> > in the note generation, they just act as triggers. No dynamics either,
> > i.e. it doesn't matter how hard you hit the string, it plays the note at
> > the same volume.
> >
> > Six note polyphonic, very limited number of preset sounds built-in. Also
> > has rhythm section and built-in Speaker. It's almost like a toy.
> >
> > It is an interesting little beast to play, but takes a bit of getting
> > used to.  You cannot bend stings or do vibrato, though it can do
> > hammer-ons and pull-offs quite nicely. Only sound I found useful was the
> > jazz organ.  And no CV or trigger out, so no interfacing with other
> > synths, at least until you modify it!!
> >
> > I believe the Casio DG-20 is the MIDI model. I have never seen one so
> > maybe that is the one with the "ribs" instead of strings?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > Theo wrote:
> > >
> > > Lasers? Good havens you sure like it the hard way.
> > > Chances are that the lasers will play like shit, because you won't be
> able
> > > to feel them.
> > > What about short strings;
> > > 1) simple approach, non velo: connect short string to a micro switch,
> > > 2) elegant approach, velo sens: measrue the string movement and
> translate
> > > that into a triger pulse.
> > > The srting may be stif pices of metal, like on the Digitar.
> > >
> > > If you only want CV control the whole thing could analog, no midi
> needed.
> > >
> > > When midi output is no problem you may want to check out the Casio midi
> > > guitar (the japanece Casio from the wimpy keyboards).
> > > Not sure if they still make them.
> > > It has a rubber fret board with no strings and rubber ribs as string
> > > triggers, althoug I saw a model that used 5inch "real" strings as
> triggers
> > > once.
> > >
> > > Cheers Theo
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <matti at devo.com>
> > > To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 1:00 AM
> > > Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> > >
> > > > Okay, this is even more off the topic, but casio's post brought
> something
> > > up:
> > > > have you ever considered using a MIDI-guitar (not sure of the real
> name)?
> > > It's
> > > > (those that I've seen, anyway) as follows: laser beams are emitted
> from
> > > the
> > > > bridge, and picked up just before the neckboard; if one of the beams
> is
> > > blocked,
> > > > an output is sent via MIDI, indicating that a note has been hit. Note
> > > control is
> > > > done via four sets of keys replacing the frets on the neckboard. Now,
> > > assuming
> > > > that you've equipped your modular with a MIDI->CV (or are using a
> modular
> > > > emulator on your computer), this has a certain amount of potential.
> > > >
> > > > ONly problem here, is that they are moderately expensive. Which brings
> me
> > > to a
> > > > more relevant point -------> does anybody know of any schematics for
> such
> > > a
> > > > device? I've looked myself, and not found any (the lasers may be a
> > > problem.....)
> > > >
> > > >



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Sun May 14 17:00:46 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:00:46 +0100
Subject: grounding questions...
References: <00ab01bfb9c0$0d82d280$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org><005901bfb9e5$258cd860$7535883e@default><3.0.5.32.20000511192346.008b2390@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <3.0.5.32.20000513194826.00943490@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <016901bfbd33$cb9e6380$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <001701bfbde2$840d83c0$8256883e@default>

Hi all,

Theo>I don't get this, the classification rules are plain simple.

Thanks Theo, a good synopsis.

But I actually said that explaining your homebrew kit to some jobs worth
who won't let you play at a public venue because you haven't got a PAT
PASSED sticker on your machine would be difficult.

However, most of us have built stuff that doesn't adhere to any
particular safety rule. We just build it and bung it in a case when we
get it working. This may not, of course, be a good thing :-)

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm








From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun May 14 18:15:44 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:15:44 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com>
Message-ID: <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net>

Since y'all want to play I'll share some experiences...

1) check out the "Guitorgan". sorry I don't know where but i bet
its out there. It was a guitar - organ that worked by cutting the frets
inot 6 pieces... and wiring to all of then.

2) The best "midi controller in the shape if a guitar" goes to Yamaha...
who uses a combination of piezo echo-ranging (fret position) Hex pickup
(amplitude) and Light sensing (for string bend angle) Think it was called G10.
Say one on E-bay not long ago, but missing the control electronics... This did
NOT play as a reguler guitar...

IMHO Its unfair to call instruments that do not make "guitar" sounds (ie tuned strings and
pickups..) Guitar Synthesizers.  So the Yamaha, Casio DG whatever, Synthaxe, and the
Photon (high strung model only) do not qualify. They are hip arternative controllers, which
are easily accessable to one "reasonably skilled in the art of guitar playing:, but they
have given up being a guitar to get around the big GUITAR SYNTH problems.

I've done wired frets before. The problem is this

When you push down a string, the fret makes contact at two places, the fret between the
finger and the bridge (good) and the fret between the finger and the neck (bad). So if you
plat a simple "barre" chord (lets use the E position at the 5th fret = Amaj)

The low E string connects from the 4th to 5th fret.
The     A string                                6th to 7th
The     D string                                6th to 7th
The     G string                                5th to 6th
The     B string                                4th to 5th
The high E                                      4th to 5th

Since both strings and frets are electrically conductive, that means that
all these strings are shorted to each other. If we scan the frets, we see
all strings between the 4th and 7th fret (not good)

So the way around is to cut the frets into 6 pieces. Now scanning works.
The Guitorgan did this, and cut the frets at a 45 degree angle, so a bent
string could slide over the cut. Dicey but would work in theory.

Think what a fret job costs on that puppy. Or what it is like to manufacture...

I made one that "worked" by using non-conductive frets (for a test I used glass
stirring rods, but modern ceramics might work. Anyone know a good, cheap
hard non-conductive metal ?  Then I used a brass "pad" under the string. The string can now
touch only one point, but you have to be a GORILLA to play it, since guitarists
push "just hard enough" to fret the string, not to nail the strings all the way to the
fingerboard.... Of course trying a bend didn't work once you fall off the pads...

The Piezo Echo ranging pings the string at an ultrasonic frequency at the bridge, then gets
the flight time of the echo. Don't work with a bent string, or a wound string... so no good
for a Guitar.

Other people have tried the resistance of the string, constant current, etc.  My take on
a winning circuit would be a reflective sensor in the middle of each fret, looking for
finger
presence. Coupled with the good old P/V conversion after the string pitch has been guessed
by the finger position.

We are not yet at the "millenium" eh ???

H^)  likes this thread

"T.J." wrote:

> Hi Everybody,
>   I don't think it's a Casio DG-20. This unit
> is basically the same as the DG-10 but with
> MIDI out. Has nylon strings, very cool, but
> toy like.
>
> Have a pic of the DG-20 (the one on the bottom left).
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/4877/dg20.jpg
>
> Here' a link to the "Synthaxe". No longer in production, but
> wild looking.
> http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/synthaxe.html
>
> And then there's Starr Lab's line of MIDI guitars.
> http://www.catalog.com/starrlab/
>
> And here's a german link of alternative controllers. Including a
> laser harp. Strange controllers here.
> http://privat.schlund.de/o/officeandtown/stoffel/alt_controller/alt_midi_controller.html
>
> Perhaps one of these is the model you were playing?
>
> Terry
>
> Theo wrote:
>
> > Sounds like it, maybe my memory is a little fuzzy.
> > Must have been somthing like 10 years ago.
> > tried one with no stings on the fret board I'am quite sure about that.
> > There was a vibrato handle and it had midi.
> > Remember it fun to play with, even for someone as lousy on the string as me.
> > Almost like a toy seems a bit like a understatement to me...
> >
> > Cheers Theo.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Peter Snow <psnow at magma.ca>
> > To: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
> > Cc: <matti at devo.com>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 5:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> >
> > > Theo,
> > >
> > > Perhaps you are thinking of the Casio DG-10. It has the nylon strings
> > > that trigger the sounds.  Also has the rubber fingerboard that detects
> > > which note you are fingering. The strings run the whole length of the
> > > neck back to the "bridge", just like a real guitar but they play no part
> > > in the note generation, they just act as triggers. No dynamics either,
> > > i.e. it doesn't matter how hard you hit the string, it plays the note at
> > > the same volume.
> > >
> > > Six note polyphonic, very limited number of preset sounds built-in. Also
> > > has rhythm section and built-in Speaker. It's almost like a toy.
> > >
> > > It is an interesting little beast to play, but takes a bit of getting
> > > used to.  You cannot bend stings or do vibrato, though it can do
> > > hammer-ons and pull-offs quite nicely. Only sound I found useful was the
> > > jazz organ.  And no CV or trigger out, so no interfacing with other
> > > synths, at least until you modify it!!
> > >
> > > I believe the Casio DG-20 is the MIDI model. I have never seen one so
> > > maybe that is the one with the "ribs" instead of strings?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > Theo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Lasers? Good havens you sure like it the hard way.
> > > > Chances are that the lasers will play like shit, because you won't be
> > able
> > > > to feel them.
> > > > What about short strings;
> > > > 1) simple approach, non velo: connect short string to a micro switch,
> > > > 2) elegant approach, velo sens: measrue the string movement and
> > translate
> > > > that into a triger pulse.
> > > > The srting may be stif pices of metal, like on the Digitar.
> > > >
> > > > If you only want CV control the whole thing could analog, no midi
> > needed.
> > > >
> > > > When midi output is no problem you may want to check out the Casio midi
> > > > guitar (the japanece Casio from the wimpy keyboards).
> > > > Not sure if they still make them.
> > > > It has a rubber fret board with no strings and rubber ribs as string
> > > > triggers, althoug I saw a model that used 5inch "real" strings as
> > triggers
> > > > once.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers Theo
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <matti at devo.com>
> > > > To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 1:00 AM
> > > > Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> > > >
> > > > > Okay, this is even more off the topic, but casio's post brought
> > something
> > > > up:
> > > > > have you ever considered using a MIDI-guitar (not sure of the real
> > name)?
> > > > It's
> > > > > (those that I've seen, anyway) as follows: laser beams are emitted
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > bridge, and picked up just before the neckboard; if one of the beams
> > is
> > > > blocked,
> > > > > an output is sent via MIDI, indicating that a note has been hit. Note
> > > > control is
> > > > > done via four sets of keys replacing the frets on the neckboard. Now,
> > > > assuming
> > > > > that you've equipped your modular with a MIDI->CV (or are using a
> > modular
> > > > > emulator on your computer), this has a certain amount of potential.
> > > > >
> > > > > ONly problem here, is that they are moderately expensive. Which brings
> > me
> > > > to a
> > > > > more relevant point -------> does anybody know of any schematics for
> > such
> > > > a
> > > > > device? I've looked myself, and not found any (the lasers may be a
> > > > problem.....)
> > > > >
> > > > >




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun May 14 20:46:56 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:46:56 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <200005141351_MC2-A4EE-F833@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <391EF49F.6CD1B388@prodigy.net>

Absolutely right.

They were a passing 'fad' for a while. They were very expensive, the price of a
good
ORGAN as opposed to the price of a Guitar...

They had to have clean frets, new strings, and a careful touch to play. Jazz
cats usually
had the chops to play them, Rock & Rollers usually did not ! They would not
tolerate
sloppy playing.

OTOH, what guitar synth WILL tolerate sloppy playing. I've never been able to
come
up with the clean technique of let's say... Pat Metheny. (that's cause he's a
jazzer and I play rock and roll.)  But I'd argue that if you are going to play
a guitar and synth at the same time, the ONLY useful sounds will be strings and
organ. Anything else is likely to
tip off the listener that the synth is lagging WAY behind the guitar.
(25-30mS). This has been the bane of Guitar synths from the beginning. I ran my
guitar through a digital delay of 25mS, so the sounds would come out in sync.
All the rest of the band LISTENED to
me and followed in sync. Except the drummer, who WATCHED me. (good technique
that eliminates the 1mS / foot delay in sound. So HE was 25mS early, and
b!tched all the
time about the delay.

At least the guitorgan was right on the money, time wise.

I'm playing with synthesis directly from a hex pickup now... no VCO's no delay.

H^)

terry michaels wrote:

> Message text written by Harry Bissell
> >1) check out the "Guitorgan". sorry I don't know where but i bet
> its out there. It was a guitar - organ that worked by cutting the frets
> inot 6 pieces... and wiring to all of then.<
>
> I played one of these in the mid '70s when I worked at a music store.
> Playing it  took considerable getting used to.  For example, the pitch
> would not change if you were bending notes, until the string crossed to the
> next segment of fret, when it would suddenly  jump by a fifth.  Also, since
> it depended on the electrical contact between the frets and the strings,
> momentary connections, say from "fret buzz" were very audible, the audio
> level in that situation was undimished, unlike a real guitar, where
> unwanted sounds are held to a minimum by player skill.   The dependence on
> this electrical connection for note production was far more unreliable than
> you would first think.  I seem to remember the lack of range in sounds,
> basically just organ sounds, along with the lack of expression and dynamics
> usually available on a normal guitar, made for boring music once the
> novelty wore off.
>
> Terry Michaels




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Mon May 15 00:43:21 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:43:21 +0200
Subject: 2K2?
In-Reply-To: <958261989.391deae5d3dc8@whipit.devo.com>
References: <958261989.391deae5d3dc8@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <20000515004321M.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: matti at devo.com
Subject: 2K2?
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:53:09 -0500

> okay, now I'm feeling silly, but I have no idea what 2K2 means, in the context 
> of a resistor. (or 2M2, for that matter)
> 
> at http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555ex6.gif, (no, I _do_ like the 555, 
> and I need the practice), the very upper left hand resistor says 2K2 for it's 
> value. What's this mean?

This is a shorthand notation in which the prefix has replaced the decimal
point. In effect this means that 2k2 is really 2.2 k which is intended to mean
2.2 kOhm. This system also has a unit prefix so that 220R means 220 Ohm and
4R7 means 4.7 Ohm where R is logically from Resistance, some great unit huh?

While this is a great missuse of the SI system it does carry some benefits.
For instance, if you would risk loosing the decimal dot in poor copying etc.
it comes out much clearer in this system. Another benefit is that it allows for
system in which only alfanumeric characters may be used to convey the correct
value.

It is in quite common use but is really a missuse like many other habbits.

Cheers,
Magnus



From theoms at nettaxi.com  Mon May 15 02:23:20 2000
From: theoms at nettaxi.com (theoms at nettaxi.com)
Date: 15 May 2000 00:23:20 +0000
Subject: Diodes on VCF-6c
Message-ID: <200005142345.QAA24729@taxismtp1.alchemyfx.com>

What diodes is tom using on this project Diode Ladder LP VCF-6C?








From efm3 at mediaone.net  Mon May 15 05:43:14 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:43:14 -0700
Subject: Diodes on VCF-6c
References: <200005142345.QAA24729@taxismtp1.alchemyfx.com>
Message-ID: <001801bfbe1f$b496ab60$0100a8c0@homenet>

Subject: Diodes on VCF-6c


> What diodes is tom using on this project Diode Ladder LP VCF-6C?


Anything will work..1n914.. 1n4148. The exact part # in MAD1108 this
is a 8 diode array and offers improved performance for a price. You need
2 so that's about $5.00 opposed to 12 signal diodes ...oh say $0.72. Your
mileage may vary.

Is it worth it to use 1108's? It's hard to say, for me no. Generally if taken
from the same tape the signal diodes available these days are good enough
for me. But if price is not an object you may want the little extra the 1108's 
offer. 

Tom






From jlarryh at iquest.net  Mon May 15 09:37:41 2000
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 02:37:41 -0500
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
Message-ID: <200005150637.IAA31586@node12b53.a2000.nl>

---------
> From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
> 
> Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you
> just need a bit of logic to say, 'hey the 3rd string
> touches fret n and n+1, that means n'.... <snip> ....

I like this idea if you are willing to give up string bending and such. 
What would be cool is if each string tensioner could be separate and could
be used to send pitchbend based on a rise in tension on the string sounding
that note (shorting those frets).  Of course, for polyphony, each string
would need to be on its own channel because of the global nature of
pitchbend.

However, I have a question.  Wouldn't it be necessary to count frets from
the bridge end of the fretboard instead of the nut.  So, the "3rd string"
is shorting (touching) "n" and "any other fret(s) below (toward the nut)" 
Other wise, one could not accommodate "bar chords".

Larry Hendry (who can't play the dang guitar anyhow, but is enjoying the
discussion)




From john at clutter.globalnet.co.uk  Mon May 15 10:48:03 2000
From: john at clutter.globalnet.co.uk (john tuffen)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:48:03 +0100
Subject: 808 trigger technique?
Message-ID: <E12rRoc-0000Zt-00@cobalt3-fe.global.net.uk>

Hey :)

	Let me know how you get on - You're the first person that I know of who is
building that circuit :)

[You might find that the 808 trigger inputs are -ve going pulses - I know
that the CR8000 is...]

But that's just a simple software mod ;-)

john..

email:	john at clutter.globalnet.co.uk
music:	http://listen.to/dktr_t
label:	http://listen.to/elektronika



----------
> From: david leigh <dave909 at hotmail.com>
> To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: 808 trigger technique?
> Date: 15 May 2000 14:36
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly finished the midi trigger convertor off the clutter site with 
> intentions of installing it in a 808. Does anyone know more than I about
the 
> internal workings of the 808? Is instalation as easy as joining the
trigger 
> o/p's of the convertor to the trigger lines inside the 808? Is the 808
ttl 
> compatible? Finally would any harm resault to the processor/memory if i
did 
> join the outputs straight up? Normally I would just give it a go, but as 
> it's no my 808 im slightly more hesitant!
> 
> dave
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> 



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon May 15 15:00:36 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:00:36 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <1.5.4.32.20000514061519.00e591d4@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <391FF4F3.BFAF3A3A@prodigy.net>

no again (quick version more later...)

Think Barre Chord where a single string may be shorted to as many as
4 places...

And the third string may be shorted to the second and sixth strings, which
might cover 4 or more frets...

The only ray of hope (forlorn hope...) is that nobody is real likely to short
more than 5 frets (unless they have 12" long fingers....)

If this is clear let me know, if not I'll draw the gloomy diagram of why its
as bad as it is...

H^) harry  (who would be happy to have missed something simple....)

Paul Perry wrote:

> At 08:59 PM 14/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell wrote:
> >Reply:   no!
> >The string is shorted to the fret before AND behind the finger... so if you
> >have>fretted strings on any adjacent frets they are shorted together
> through the
> >X (strings) Y (frets) matrix. You CANNOT isolate the strings once they
> >touch>the frets...
> >that's why everyone cuts the frets into pieces...
>
> Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of logic to
> say,
> 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
>
> Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are more
> than one
> touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings & they are
> only
> being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points..
> >
> >Moral: everything easy has been done already !!!
>
> CounterMoral: think harder already !!!
>
> paul 'smartarse' perry melbourne australia




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon May 15 15:03:50 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:03:50 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <200005150637.IAA31586@node12b53.a2000.nl>
Message-ID: <391FF5B5.B6A310B1@prodigy.net>



"J. Larry Hendry" wrote:

> ---------
> > From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
> >
> > Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you
> > just need a bit of logic to say, 'hey the 3rd string
> > touches fret n and n+1, that means n'.... <snip> ....
>
> I like this idea if you are willing to give up string bending and such.
> What would be cool is if each string tensioner could be separate and could
> be used to send pitchbend based on a rise in tension on the string sounding
> that note (shorting those frets).  Of course, for polyphony, each string
> would need to be on its own channel because of the global nature of
> pitchbend.

Yamaha did this with an optical bend sensor, no problem

>
>
> However, I have a question.  Wouldn't it be necessary to count frets from
> the bridge end of the fretboard instead of the nut.  So, the "3rd string"
> is shorting (touching) "n" and "any other fret(s) below (toward the nut)"
> Other wise, one could not accommodate "bar chords".

Yes... the problem is that any string is shorted to any number of other
strings, both
by the fret nearest the bridge (which we want to sense) and the ones behind
that
we want to ignore...

>
>
> Larry Hendry (who can't play the dang guitar anyhow, but is enjoying the
> discussion)

If we get past this problem... you will probably LEARN guitar...

H^) harry





From efm3 at mediaone.net  Mon May 15 15:23:59 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 06:23:59 -0700
Subject: more hybrid OTA filters
References: <000701bfbb3c$2c9bc0a0$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <000b01bfbe70$d5708940$0100a8c0@homenet>

If you built one of these over the weekend install a 10K
resistor across the res pot. From the output to the wiper.
I left it off the schemo...sorry. I hope you enjoy this filter 
it's very cool not using 13600s!

Tom





> Someone asked how to use the hybrid-OTA to build a MS20
> filter......
> 
> http://www.xavax.com/efm/pdf/vcf8h.pdf
> 
> It might be hard to believe but this sounds very good.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 




From dave909 at hotmail.com  Mon May 15 15:36:20 2000
From: dave909 at hotmail.com (david leigh)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 06:36:20 PDT
Subject: 808 trigger technique?
Message-ID: <20000515133620.60012.qmail@hotmail.com>



Nearly finished the midi trigger convertor off the clutter site with 
intentions of installing it in a 808. Does anyone know more than I about the 
internal workings of the 808? Is instalation as easy as joining the trigger 
o/p's of the convertor to the trigger lines inside the 808? Is the 808 ttl 
compatible? Finally would any harm resault to the processor/memory if i did 
join the outputs straight up? Normally I would just give it a go, but as 
it's no my 808 im slightly more hesitant!

dave
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From afas at abacus.com.au  Mon May 15 15:36:42 2000
From: afas at abacus.com.au (geoff james)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:36:42 +0800
Subject: THWAPPER
Message-ID: <006a01bfbe72$9d843660$4b4e39cb@afas>

does anyone know where i might get more info on the above instrument.
i caught a glimpse of this on the TV. it's a magnetic device for making drum sounds.
regards
geoff james
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From patchell at silcom.com  Mon May 15 15:47:33 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell at silcom.com)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 06:47:33 -0700
Subject: VCO breadboard
Message-ID: <391FFFF5.264AD709@silcom.com>

    Got enough of a breadboard for a temperature compensated VCO going
last night to start doing some serious testing.  I need an environmental
chamber.  I figured I would go over to K-Mart tonight and purchase one.
And when I am done making the measurements, I figured I could use it to
keep beer on ice while at the beach.

    -Jim





From debus at cityweb.de  Mon May 15 15:53:13 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:53:13 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de>



Harry Bissell wrote:

> Other people have tried the resistance of the string, constant current, etc.

Why doesn't this work? Seems quite simple to me: make strings of
resistive wire (Konstantan etc.), connect all frets to ground, insulate
the strings from each other and measure the resistance between end of
the string (at the bridge) and ground. Maybe problems with bad contact
between frets and strings?

Paul Perry wrote:

>Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of
logic to
>say, 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
>Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are more
>than one 
>touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings &
they are
>only being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points.. 

Like for a conventional switch matrix, this would require a diode in
series with each "switch". Maybe the strings and frets can be made of
semiconductor, strings p-doped and frets n-doped? ;-)

Ingo




From Roel.Das at student.groept.be  Mon May 15 16:31:26 2000
From: Roel.Das at student.groept.be (Roel Das)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 16:31:26 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <1.5.4.32.20000514061519.00e591d4@popa.melbpc.org.au> <391FF4F3.BFAF3A3A@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000f01bfbe7a$410fb820$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>


> The only ray of hope (forlorn hope...) is that nobody is real likely to
short
> more than 5 frets (unless they have 12" long fingers....)

Don't hope on that. About a year ago (before having chronic tendinitis on
both wrists), I could easily do that. In his book 'Chord Chemistry', Ted
Greene even gives diagrams for chords that would short up to 7 frets!! (By
the way, this is a very nice book for any guitarist that wants to learn ALL
about chords. It does take a few decades of practice, however...)

And then we aren't even talking about 10 finger tapping WITH a capo between
3rd and 4th fred!!

What you can hope for is that most people that try this stuff, and still
take the time to build one of these, won't have time left to do serieus warm
ups etc, so they will eventually end up with wrist injuries too...

BTW, and jsut how are you going to handle bottle necks? :-)

Just a little motivation for the brains amongst us...
Roel


>
> If this is clear let me know, if not I'll draw the gloomy diagram of why
its
> as bad as it is...
>
> H^) harry  (who would be happy to have missed something simple....)
>
> Paul Perry wrote:
>
> > At 08:59 PM 14/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell wrote:
> > >Reply:   no!
> > >The string is shorted to the fret before AND behind the finger... so if
you
> > >have>fretted strings on any adjacent frets they are shorted together
> > through the
> > >X (strings) Y (frets) matrix. You CANNOT isolate the strings once they
> > >touch>the frets...
> > >that's why everyone cuts the frets into pieces...
> >
> > Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of
logic to
> > say,
> > 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
> >
> > Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are more
> > than one
> > touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings & they
are
> > only
> > being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points..
> > >
> > >Moral: everything easy has been done already !!!
> >
> > CounterMoral: think harder already !!!
> >
> > paul 'smartarse' perry melbourne australia
>
>




From hiryku_lin at yahoo.com  Mon May 15 20:52:57 2000
From: hiryku_lin at yahoo.com (Hiryku Lin)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:52:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ring mod question
Message-ID: <20000515185257.19092.qmail@web1103.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey people. I've got a question. Is it possible to
create a ring mod with out on on board oscillator? But
have two inputs instead, and jusy have the two signals
multiply? If it is posible, I assume it's been done.
Anyone here anything about this? Thanks ahead

-HJ

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Mon May 15 21:31:14 2000
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:31:14 +0100
Subject: tranny pairs
Message-ID: <000001bfbea4$4ae37d80$205d883e@default>

A few months ago I cut up a old broken DBX VCA module
and found it was full of 2SC1583s.  Each one had a tight fitting
aluminium box over the body.  The cans were not touching each
other (the whole thing was encapsulated in rubbery glop) and I 
don't think they were touching the module case either.

The only reason I can think of for these cans would be to improve
thermal matching of the two transistors in the 1583.

Any thoughts on this?  Anyone feel like trying this out - I've just
moved house and my 2SC1583s are still missing...


Steve Ridley
 




From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon May 15 23:41:32 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:41:32 +0200
Subject: Ring mod question
References: <20000515185257.19092.qmail@web1103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003701bfbeb6$5685d540$0400a8c0@Theo>

Yes o'cause, a onboard oscilator is a mere ad on, lots of ring mods don't
have it.
Basically use any rimgmod disign you like for this.

I like the Ring mod that is part of the Formant,
partly because I never used an other one.
It has a ENV follower that tracks one of the inputs as a nice exstra,
handy as a VCF control source (not very original to do, I know).
There may be better candidates around.....

Cheers Theo.


----- Original Message -----
From: Hiryku Lin <hiryku_lin at yahoo.com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 8:52 PM
Subject: Ring mod question


> Hey people. I've got a question. Is it possible to
> create a ring mod with out on on board oscillator? But
> have two inputs instead, and jusy have the two signals
> multiply? If it is posible, I assume it's been done.
> Anyone here anything about this? Thanks ahead
>
> -HJ
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>




From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue May 16 00:04:01 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 00:04:01 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <1.5.4.32.20000514061519.00e591d4@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <005d01bfbeb9$7a0469c0$0400a8c0@Theo>

Have to see how this works:
Give every fret its own voltage, do a matrix scann on the string and frets.
No reson to cut up the frets, since you can see what is the "lowest" fret
touched by the string.

Just an idea,
Cheers Theo "can only play a Amaj"

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
To: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )


> At 08:59 PM 14/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell wrote:
> >Reply:   no!
> >The string is shorted to the fret before AND behind the finger... so if
you
> >have>fretted strings on any adjacent frets they are shorted together
> through the
> >X (strings) Y (frets) matrix. You CANNOT isolate the strings once they
> >touch>the frets...
> >that's why everyone cuts the frets into pieces...
>
> Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of logic
to
> say,
> 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
>
> Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are more
> than one
> touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings & they
are
> only
> being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points..
> >
> >Moral: everything easy has been done already !!!
>
> CounterMoral: think harder already !!!
>
> paul 'smartarse' perry melbourne australia
>




From jlarryh at iquest.net  Tue May 16 01:35:37 2000
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:35:37 -0500
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
Message-ID: <200005152235.AAA00940@node12b53.a2000.nl>

Hey, I like that idea, especially if you can make the voltage noticeable as
you get higher on the fretboard.  I like the idea that guitar players would
get an extra buzz (more than the one they usually have) from current
inducing frets.

Larry <joking of course> Hendry

----------
> From: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
> Cc: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> Date: Monday, May 15, 2000 5:04 PM
> 
> Have to see how this works:
> Give every fret its own voltage, do a matrix scann on the string and
frets.
> No reson to cut up the frets, since you can see what is the "lowest" fret
> touched by the string.
> 
> Just an idea,
> Cheers Theo "can only play a Amaj"




From vampope at swbell.net  Tue May 16 03:05:42 2000
From: vampope at swbell.net (Tim Curtis)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:05:42 -0500
Subject: Cleaning 1/4" jacks
Message-ID: <39209EE6.E88E1529@postoffice.swbell.net>

Hi Everyone -

Here's a simple question...  :-)

What methods do you guys use to clean 1/4" jacks?  They're not really
too crusty or anything, but I want to do some preventitive on them.

I'm going the "insert the plug 50 times" route, but what else should I
do?  Should I use some type of cleaner?  Is there a brush or tool I
should use, or is that a bad idea?

Thanks,


Tim




From matti at devo.com  Tue May 16 03:28:50 2000
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:28:50 -0500
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
In-Reply-To: <005d01bfbeb9$7a0469c0$0400a8c0@Theo>
References: <1.5.4.32.20000514061519.00e591d4@popa.melbpc.org.au> <005d01bfbeb9$7a0469c0$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <958440530.3920a452a364a@whipit.devo.com>

Matrix scan? What about just a bunch of resistors in series, the end of each of 
which  is soldered onto a fret (in the neck, probably hollow). That aside, won't 
it's only being able to see that lowest note on each string make a problem? What 
about the resistor/capacitor actions of the fingers?

Quoting Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>:

> Have to see how this works:
> Give every fret its own voltage, do a matrix scann on the string and
> frets.
> No reson to cut up the frets, since you can see what is the "lowest"
> fret
> touched by the string.
> 
> Just an idea,
> Cheers Theo "can only play a Amaj"
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
> To: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 8:15 AM
> Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> 
> 
> > At 08:59 PM 14/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell wrote:
> > >Reply:   no!
> > >The string is shorted to the fret before AND behind the finger... so
> if
> you
> > >have>fretted strings on any adjacent frets they are shorted together
> > through the
> > >X (strings) Y (frets) matrix. You CANNOT isolate the strings once
> they
> > >touch>the frets...
> > >that's why everyone cuts the frets into pieces...
> >
> > Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of
> logic
> to
> > say,
> > 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
> >
> > Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are
> more
> > than one
> > touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings &
> they
> are
> > only
> > being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points..
> > >
> > >Moral: everything easy has been done already !!!
> >
> > CounterMoral: think harder already !!!
> >
> > paul 'smartarse' perry melbourne australia
> >
> 



From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue May 16 04:29:20 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 04:29:20 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <200005152235.AAA00940@node12b53.a2000.nl>
Message-ID: <000f01bfbede$8abe2ec0$0400a8c0@Theo>

Maybe use the AC supply from the tube amp, and make the frets a cascade.
That would be 380*24=9120V.
Enough for a burning and spark-ling preformance.
Yea, this is somthing cool.

Cheers Theo (keyboard guy with a intence suppressed jelousy towards the
guitarist getting all the girls)


----- Original Message -----
From: J. Larry Hendry <jlarryh at iquest.net>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )


> Hey, I like that idea, especially if you can make the voltage noticeable
as
> you get higher on the fretboard.  I like the idea that guitar players
would
> get an extra buzz (more than the one they usually have) from current
> inducing frets.
>
> Larry <joking of course> Hendry
>
> ----------
> > From: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
> > Cc: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> > Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> > Date: Monday, May 15, 2000 5:04 PM
> >
> > Have to see how this works:
> > Give every fret its own voltage, do a matrix scann on the string and
> frets.
> > No reson to cut up the frets, since you can see what is the "lowest"
fret
> > touched by the string.
> >
> > Just an idea,
> > Cheers Theo "can only play a Amaj"
>




From dafc at sinectis.com.ar  Tue May 16 04:29:35 2000
From: dafc at sinectis.com.ar (David Castillo)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:29:35 -0300
Subject: Tester.
Message-ID: <01BFBEC5.71168800@modem63-tc11.capfed1.sinectis.com.ar>

Hi!. My tester has broken and I want to replace it with a good one, (this was very lo fi).
What do you recommend me?

Thanks, Bye!



From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue May 16 04:47:04 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 04:47:04 +0200
Subject: Cleaning 1/4" jacks
References: <39209EE6.E88E1529@postoffice.swbell.net>
Message-ID: <001f01bfbee1$049ed3a0$0400a8c0@Theo>

Isopropylalcohol (just cleans) or
kontact 61(protects) / equivalent if not corroded.
Or kontact 40 (protects) if corroded.
Very special tool: tissu paper.

Don't like kontact 60 (deoxid) in this case.

Works for me,

Regards Theo.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: Tim Curtis <vampope at swbell.net>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:05 AM
Subject: Cleaning 1/4" jacks


> Hi Everyone -
> 
> Here's a simple question...  :-)
> 
> What methods do you guys use to clean 1/4" jacks?  They're not really
> too crusty or anything, but I want to do some preventitive on them.
> 
> I'm going the "insert the plug 50 times" route, but what else should I
> do?  Should I use some type of cleaner?  Is there a brush or tool I
> should use, or is that a bad idea?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
> 




From CasioRZ1 at aol.com  Tue May 16 05:07:00 2000
From: CasioRZ1 at aol.com (CasioRZ1 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:07:00 EDT
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
Message-ID: <a1.557ac90.26521554@aol.com>

and...

What about "fret buzz", where the string accidentally comes into contact 
(even briefly) w/a fret higher up on the fretboard?  Perhaps you could take 
care of this with code if yer using a microprocessor (a note is only valid if 
on longer than Xms, or whatever), or by having really high action ;-)

Unless I miss something about the resistors in series thing, wouldn't you 
have to (again) cut the frets (each note on the fingerboard has it's own 
resistance)?  Unless, I suppose, you made each string a kind of switch, so 
that the resistance of fret 5 on both the E and A string is the same, but 
feeding a different VCO/ADC channel/howeveryergonnadoit... 

Derek

In a message dated 5/15/2000 8:14:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
matti at devo.com writes:

<< Matrix scan? What about just a bunch of resistors in series, the end of 
each of 
 which  is soldered onto a fret (in the neck, probably hollow). That aside, 
won't 
 it's only being able to see that lowest note on each string make a problem? 
What 
 about the resistor/capacitor actions of the fingers?
 
 Quoting Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>:
 
 > Have to see how this works:
 > Give every fret its own voltage, do a matrix scann on the string and
 > frets.
 > No reson to cut up the frets, since you can see what is the "lowest"
 > fret
 > touched by the string.
 > 
 > Just an idea,
 > Cheers Theo "can only play a Amaj"
 > 
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
 > To: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
 > Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
 > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 8:15 AM
 > Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
 > 
 > 
 > > At 08:59 PM 14/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell wrote:
 > > >Reply:   no!
 > > >The string is shorted to the fret before AND behind the finger... so
 > if
 > you
 > > >have>fretted strings on any adjacent frets they are shorted together
 > > through the
 > > >X (strings) Y (frets) matrix. You CANNOT isolate the strings once
 > they
 > > >touch>the frets...
 > > >that's why everyone cuts the frets into pieces...
 > >
 > > Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of
 > logic
 > to
 > > say,
 > > 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
 > >
 > > Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are
 > more
 > > than one
 > > touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings &
 > they
 > are
 > > only
 > > being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points..
 > > >
 > > >Moral: everything easy has been done already !!!
 > >
 > > CounterMoral: think harder already !!!
 > >
 > > paul 'smartarse' perry melbourne australia
 > >
 > 
 
 
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 Message-ID: <958440530.3920a452a364a at whipit.devo.com>
 Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:28:50 -0500
 References: <1.5.4.32.20000514061519.00e591d4 at popa.melbpc.org.au> 
<005d01bfbeb9$7a0469c0$0400a8c0 at Theo>
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  >>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 16 05:30:21 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:30:21 -0400
Subject: VCO breadboard
References: <391FFFF5.264AD709@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3920C0CD.9952D4D7@prodigy.net>

I bought a nice walk-in temperature chamber last week at our local Sam's
Club...
Reasonable price...

Oh... you're not a member... so sorry.

LOL !!!

H^)

patchell at silcom.com wrote:

>     Got enough of a breadboard for a temperature compensated VCO going
> last night to start doing some serious testing.  I need an environmental
> chamber.  I figured I would go over to K-Mart tonight and purchase one.
> And when I am done making the measurements, I figured I could use it to
> keep beer on ice while at the beach.
>
>     -Jim




From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue May 16 05:44:52 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 05:44:52 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <1.5.4.32.20000514061519.00e591d4@popa.melbpc.org.au> <005d01bfbeb9$7a0469c0$0400a8c0@Theo> <958440530.3920a452a364a@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <006701bfbee9$1886ad40$0400a8c0@Theo>

This was just one of my notorious wild ideas.
(like using a exor function to create a conctant gap bedween two overlapping
pulses, did not work due to jitter)
Have to learn to sit on them a while before yelling them out to the world.
That way I may put them in a form that could be actually usefull.

I'll come back on this one later.

Cheers Theo


----- Original Message -----
From: <matti at devo.com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )


> Matrix scan? What about just a bunch of resistors in series, the end of
each of
> which  is soldered onto a fret (in the neck, probably hollow). That aside,
won't
> it's only being able to see that lowest note on each string make a
problem? What
> about the resistor/capacitor actions of the fingers?
>
> Quoting Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>:
>
> > Have to see how this works:
> > Give every fret its own voltage, do a matrix scann on the string and
> > frets.
> > No reson to cut up the frets, since you can see what is the "lowest"
> > fret
> > touched by the string.
> >
> > Just an idea,
> > Cheers Theo "can only play a Amaj"
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
> > To: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> > Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 8:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> >
> >
> > > At 08:59 PM 14/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell wrote:
> > > >Reply:   no!
> > > >The string is shorted to the fret before AND behind the finger... so
> > if
> > you
> > > >have>fretted strings on any adjacent frets they are shorted together
> > > through the
> > > >X (strings) Y (frets) matrix. You CANNOT isolate the strings once
> > they
> > > >touch>the frets...
> > > >that's why everyone cuts the frets into pieces...
> > >
> > > Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of
> > logic
> > to
> > > say,
> > > 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
> > >
> > > Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are
> > more
> > > than one
> > > touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings &
> > they
> > are
> > > only
> > > being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points..
> > > >
> > > >Moral: everything easy has been done already !!!
> > >
> > > CounterMoral: think harder already !!!
> > >
> > > paul 'smartarse' perry melbourne australia
> > >
> >




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 16 05:46:21 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:46:21 -0400
Subject: tranny pairs
References: <000001bfbea4$4ae37d80$205d883e@default>
Message-ID: <3920C48C.67388F49@prodigy.net>

More likely to stop the "curious" from reverse engineering the circuit
and
making clones.... (may have some matching benefit...)

But WHO amongst us would stoop so low as to "clone" a circuit ???

LOL

H^) harry

PS some of ILK would not stoop so low... they would wait for the circuit
to
be posted on someone's web site... THEN appropriate it...  You know who
you are!

BTW you know what an ILK is ?.....   Its a small moose.

Steve Ridley wrote:

> A few months ago I cut up a old broken DBX VCA module
> and found it was full of 2SC1583s.  Each one had a tight fitting
> aluminium box over the body.  The cans were not touching each
> other (the whole thing was encapsulated in rubbery glop) and I
> don't think they were touching the module case either.
>
> The only reason I can think of for these cans would be to improve
> thermal matching of the two transistors in the 1583.
>
> Any thoughts on this?  Anyone feel like trying this out - I've just
> moved house and my 2SC1583s are still missing...
>
> Steve Ridley
>




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 16 05:52:53 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:52:53 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <1.5.4.32.20000514061519.00e591d4@popa.melbpc.org.au> <005d01bfbeb9$7a0469c0$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <3920C614.DEC02DA6@prodigy.net>

Sorry, no can do. When you fret the string you contact (short) two voltage
sources. Better
to put resistors across the frets, drive the side nearest the bridge with a
constant current
source, and then ground the strings. I'll work... monophonic only. Cannot work
as a polly.. so solly!

The strings go (lets say) Y axis, the frets go X axis... push nore than one
adjacent string
and you have a big metal matrix. Cannot say which is the true position.

I'd love proof that I'm wrong here :^(

H^)   harry

Theo wrote:

> Have to see how this works:
> Give every fret its own voltage, do a matrix scann on the string and frets.
> No reson to cut up the frets, since you can see what is the "lowest" fret
> touched by the string.
>
> Just an idea,
> Cheers Theo "can only play a Amaj"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
> To: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 8:15 AM
> Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
>
> > At 08:59 PM 14/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell wrote:
> > >Reply:   no!
> > >The string is shorted to the fret before AND behind the finger... so if
> you
> > >have>fretted strings on any adjacent frets they are shorted together
> > through the
> > >X (strings) Y (frets) matrix. You CANNOT isolate the strings once they
> > >touch>the frets...
> > >that's why everyone cuts the frets into pieces...
> >
> > Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of logic
> to
> > say,
> > 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
> >
> > Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are more
> > than one
> > touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings & they
> are
> > only
> > being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points..
> > >
> > >Moral: everything easy has been done already !!!
> >
> > CounterMoral: think harder already !!!
> >
> > paul 'smartarse' perry melbourne australia
> >




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 16 05:54:34 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:54:34 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <200005152235.AAA00940@node12b53.a2000.nl>
Message-ID: <3920C67A.5D0A0E8A@prodigy.net>

WONDERFUL IDEA !!!

Make the voltage HIGH enough and you can GUARANTEE the guitarist won't
play more than one note... ONE TIME !!!

H^)  the grim reaper

"J. Larry Hendry" wrote:

> Hey, I like that idea, especially if you can make the voltage noticeable as
> you get higher on the fretboard.  I like the idea that guitar players would
> get an extra buzz (more than the one they usually have) from current
> inducing frets.
>
> Larry <joking of course> Hendry
>
> ----------
> > From: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
> > Cc: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> > Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> > Date: Monday, May 15, 2000 5:04 PM
> >
> > Have to see how this works:
> > Give every fret its own voltage, do a matrix scann on the string and
> frets.
> > No reson to cut up the frets, since you can see what is the "lowest" fret
> > touched by the string.
> >
> > Just an idea,
> > Cheers Theo "can only play a Amaj"




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 16 06:21:41 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 00:21:41 -0400
Subject: Guitar Synth why it won't work !
Message-ID: <3920CCD5.7D62A0AC@prodigy.net>

Here's a .gif of the fret shorting problem.  You can see that a large
block
of frets and strings short each other out. Cutting the frets in pieces
is the
obvious solution.... but so sad :^(

H^)
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From tom at synth-diy.you-bastards.com  Tue May 16 07:12:19 2000
From: tom at synth-diy.you-bastards.com (tom at synth-diy.you-bastards.com)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:12:19 -0700
Subject: Some asm-1 notes and bug fixes
Message-ID: <E12rZeV-00075l-00@no-spam.you-bastards.com>

I sent something like this to the list a few days ago but haven't seen
it show up yet.  Perhaps I sent it to a closed list from the wrong
email account, so here's take two.  If you see this twice, hopefully
one version or the other will make sense.

1. Filter distortion problem at high res:

I've been catching up on the past 5 months of synth-diy.  In December,
somebody working on an asm-1 was having a problem with their filter
distorting and sounding crappy at high res setting for certain cutoff
values.  I had the same problem, and have never seen it addressed
here.  In my case, the problem was caused by using TL082s as the
buffer opamps (positions U7 and U8 on the schematic available at

http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vcf.new.pdf

).  When trying to drive these with a voltage below -12V or so (which
can happen at high res settings), they will go into phase reversal and
the output will go to +15V which sounds really nasty.  I swapped the
TL082s for LM358s which work fine.  Perhaps the schematic could be
updated to indicate LM358s or some other bipolar input opamp.

2. Using LFO to drive the ADSR gate:

The same person asked about using the LFO to drive the ADSR gate input.
It's not apparent from the schematic at

http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1adsr.pdf

but the LM358 at U2 is run between ground and +15V.  The asm-1 LFO
output goes to -15V which exceeds the common mode input range of the
LM358.  For safety, I put a diode in series with the gate panel jack
to clamp negative voltages.

3. Attack pot needs series resistor:

I found that when I turned the attack pot to zero ohms, the attack
peak would exceed the trimmed peak setting because the rise time was
so fast that there would be audible overshoot while the rest of the
circuit was switching to decay mode.  I put a 10 ohm resistor in
series with the attack pot to stop this and still get snappy attacks.

4. Inverting filter CV input fix:

Concerning the filter, the notes on Magnus Danielson's page

http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/

(which I believe are transcribed directly from Gene's original notes)
say:

  An inverting amplifier is provided to allow positive modulation
  voltages to drop the VCF frequency, and because I had an extra
  op-amp. A 47k resistor is shown on the input to this inverter, which
  means that this input will have twice the "normal" sensitivity, or
  0.5 volts per octave

Ok, but the aforementioned schematic labels the input as -1V/oct when
it is in fact -0.5V/oct.  Furthermore, because U1-B is configured with
a gain of -2, it will clip if the input exceeds +/-7.5V.  This can be
corrected and control sensitivity maintained by making R5 100K and R7
47K instead of vice versa.

fTom.



From farky at ix.netcom.com  Tue May 16 07:17:29 2000
From: farky at ix.netcom.com (farky)
Date: Mon, 15 May 00 22:17:29 -0700
Subject: The guitarists' problem
Message-ID: <200005160516.BAA05558@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Howdy folks.

I play guitar.  I play synth guitar.  I want to run my synth through my 
guitar amp.  I'm sure there must be some way to equalize the signal to 
flatten the freq. response of my amp.  Some kind of network?  If I 
understand correctly, there is a network inside audio amps/receivers that 
compensates for the weird eq of vinyl.  Any similarities to this problem?

toby






From czech at Micronas.Com  Tue May 16 09:04:26 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:04:26 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Patent violations?!
Message-ID: <200005160704.JAA16864@ikarus.intermetall.de>

Ian,

some people say that the European or especially German patent offices
are much more into rejecting, be it the content or the filing date.
For my recent attempts to get four patents I had to learn that even
offering engineering samples of a chip with the invention on it (and not
telling about it) can be considered as publication, so you get into
conflict with your own work!


m.c.

:::Martin --
:::
:::In the US you have up to a year after publication to file. (Done it
many
:::times).
:::
:::  Ian
:::
:::> AFAIK the patent claim starts at the date when the patent was
:::> send to the patent office. This is of course BEFORE it is
:::> published.
:::>
:::




From Colin.Fraser at scottishpower.plc.uk  Tue May 16 09:10:23 2000
From: Colin.Fraser at scottishpower.plc.uk (Fraser, Colin J)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:10:23 +0100
Subject: 808 trigger technique?
Message-ID: <01F675ABB3FFD111A6AA0008C728D5A501FDC24A@catsprnts10.cat.scottishpower.plc.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: john tuffen [mailto:john at clutter.globalnet.co.uk]
> Sent: 15 May 2000 09:48
> To: synth-diy; david leigh
> Subject: Re: 808 trigger technique?
> 
> [You might find that the 808 trigger inputs are -ve going 
> pulses - I know
> that the CR8000 is...]
> 
> But that's just a simple software mod ;-)

The 808 trigger pulses are positive going, 1ms pulses between roughly 4 and
14 volts.
The common accent line is switched thru a pair of transistors separate TTL
lines to create the pulses for each instrument.
You'll find the sounds trigger at very low levels unless you step up the
microcontroller outputs somehow.
The easiest way would be to copy the circuitry from the 808 and use one of
the trigger outputs on the PIC to switch the accent on and off.

I've been meaning to do an AVR based midi to trigger convertor with a DAC to
provide accent levels for a while, but haven't found the time yet...

Colin f



From DCMagnuson at aol.com  Tue May 16 15:00:44 2000
From: DCMagnuson at aol.com (DCMagnuson at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:00:44 EDT
Subject: Cleaning 1/4" jacks
Message-ID: <75.4332b73.2652a07c@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/15/00 8:54:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
vampope at swbell.net writes:

> Hi Everyone -
>  
>  Here's a simple question...  :-)
>  
>  What methods do you guys use to clean 1/4" jacks?  They're not really
>  too crusty or anything, but I want to do some preventitive on them.
>  
>  I'm going the "insert the plug 50 times" route, but what else should I
>  do?  Should I use some type of cleaner?  Is there a brush or tool I
>  should use, or is that a bad idea?
>  
>  Thanks,
>  

Recently I've seen a 1/4" cleaning tool (I think it's called Conductool or 
something similar.)  It was avdvertised in the back of a keyboard or 
recording magazine.  It looks just like a 1/4" plug, and is designed to clean 
both plugs and jacks.  Never tried one, but it looks interesting

Dave Magnuson




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue May 16 15:22:01 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 06:22:01 -0700
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <1.5.4.32.20000514061519.00e591d4@popa.melbpc.org.au> <005d01bfbeb9$7a0469c0$0400a8c0@Theo> <3920C614.DEC02DA6@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000e01bfbf39$b92c6a00$0100a8c0@homenet>

I would love to join in...but I bought a GR-1 & GK-2 
several years ago and haven't really thought about it sense.
..;-)

Tom






From skin_job at hotmail.com  Tue May 16 18:14:37 2000
From: skin_job at hotmail.com (skinny bastard)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:14:37 GMT
Subject: electronotes controller keyboard schematics
Message-ID: <20000516161437.15294.qmail@hotmail.com>

Someone informed me that there is a very good schematic for an analog 
controller keyboard in the electronotes/preferred circuits collection... 
haven't gotten around to getting these yet... does anyone have a copy of 
this particular section that they could send me....
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Tue May 16 19:57:10 2000
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:57:10 +0100
Subject: tranny pairs
Message-ID: <000001bfbf60$75039d40$2d2b883e@default>

>this is most interesting !
>Do you know if the 1583's were directly used for the variable gain
>cell, or just for the surrounding circuit ? (We're speaking of
>pre-IC DBX stuff, don't we ?)
>Do you plan to reverse engineer the circuit ?
>
>(The aluminium boxes will help to reduce the temperature gradient.)


The device (a DBX 202, a pre-IC module) was tightly packed and
difficult to dismantle without causing a certain amount of damage,
and I wasn't motivated enough to fully reverse engineer the thing, 
but there were several transistor pairs and it looked like a discrete
version of the basic core of the DBX2150 - see the data sheet at
the THAT site (http://kiosk.std.com/Newbury/thatcorp/).


Steve Ridley








From siddhar604 at svs.ru  Tue May 16 23:44:35 2000
From: siddhar604 at svs.ru (siddhar)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 01:44:35 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] Bit-01 EPROM 
Message-ID: <200102142254.XAA16626@node12b53.a2000.nl>

Does anyone out there have EPROM dumps for BIT-01??

alexx.





From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed May 17 03:13:10 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:13:10 +1000
Subject: Mouintan Wiev  Phase accumulator
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000517011310.00e5a268@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 01:48 PM 17/05/00 -0500, Grant Richter wrote:

>or is it simply pushing the sampling rate up to the
>slew rate of the flash converter?
>
Why, yes it is.
And, if your original input has signals at a frequency 
that will create harmonics at this sample rate, you will
hear them. But, if the rate is changing around, the
artifacts (might) not be so noticeable.

paul perry Melbourne Australia




From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed May 17 06:37:41 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 06:37:41 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net> <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo>

Tought about that too.
Srtings have to handel a lot of tention and are subject to mechanical wear.
All in all resistive wire strings seems not so easy.

Maybe resistive frets could be a possibility.
Some one knows about a hard reststive material?

Cheers Theo

----- Original Message -----
From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )


>
>
> Harry Bissell wrote:
>
> > Other people have tried the resistance of the string, constant current,
etc.
>
> Why doesn't this work? Seems quite simple to me: make strings of
> resistive wire (Konstantan etc.), connect all frets to ground, insulate
> the strings from each other and measure the resistance between end of
> the string (at the bridge) and ground. Maybe problems with bad contact
> between frets and strings?
>
> Paul Perry wrote:
>
> >Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of
> logic to
> >say, 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
> >Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are more
> >than one
> >touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings &
> they are
> >only being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points..
>
> Like for a conventional switch matrix, this would require a diode in
> series with each "switch". Maybe the strings and frets can be made of
> semiconductor, strings p-doped and frets n-doped? ;-)
>
> Ingo
>




From jhusted at halcyon.com  Wed May 17 07:24:16 2000
From: jhusted at halcyon.com (James Husted)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:24:16 -0700
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
In-Reply-To: <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <B5477B0F.8930%jhusted@halcyon.com>

How about a scanning "keyboard" method. Have a fast (Really fast) sequencer
output DC to the frets bridge-to-nut on the neck. Read the strings
separately. By counting the steps (frets) till a high appears on the string
(read at the bridge end) you now the note played on that string. Throw in
some logic to ignore data if only there X number of passes (and a lower fret
is high +X passes) and you get rid of fret buzz. The voltages would be kept
low to protect the innocent.
-James
    |_e_/   James Husted
      )     The Ersatz Planet - graphics and sound design
    ~\/\    james at ersatzplanet.com
       /    www.ersatzplanet.com
            webmaster at ersatzplanet.com





From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Wed May 17 14:00:58 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:00:58 GMT
Subject: Mouintan Wiev  Phase accumulator
Message-ID: <20000517120058.49433.qmail@hotmail.com>

Any one hawing the shemos
of the Mountain Wiev card
or a shemo of a phase
accumulator based synth?

AP

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From patchell at silcom.com  Wed May 17 15:56:47 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 06:56:47 -0700
Subject: Mouintan Wiev  Phase accumulator
References: <20000517120058.49433.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3922A51F.E9D25525@silcom.com>

    This will probably not be much help, but if you can locate a copy of Hal
Chamberlains _Musical Applications of Microprocessors_ ,  he has several
chapters that deal with this subject.

    I have been giving some thought to this topic as well.  The circuits in
Hal's book are a bit dated.  These types of things can be pretty easily
implemented in software, even on a pretty modest PC these days.  Or you can
implement them in firmware in a DSP chip, and if you are really hardcore,
and want a hardware solution, a Xilinx gate array could implement this
fairly easily.  I wish I could afford the Virtex chips, you could build
quite a machine in one of those.

    Also, DAC's these days are CHEAP.  I was looking at 24 bit DAC's on the
Burr Brown web site (for use in a motion controller, not a musical
application :-(  ) and was stunned at how little they cost.  Burr Brown has
a 6 channel DAC (24 bits, 192KHz Sample Rate) that they list for $8 (in
1000's I assume).

    But, I am attempting to resist the Digital Demon....he will not sway me
from the true path of analog....

    -Jim

Augusto Pinoche wrote:

> Any one hawing the shemos
> of the Mountain Wiev card
> or a shemo of a phase
> accumulator based synth?
>
> AP
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From patchell at silcom.com  Wed May 17 16:10:00 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:10:00 -0700
Subject: VCO breadboard
References: <391FFFF5.264AD709@silcom.com> <002801bfc006$a995d950$e077143f@Studio1>
Message-ID: <3922A838.D2D7F226@silcom.com>

    Preliminary schematics are posted.

    http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/jp2rest/dualvco.pdf

    This is not a finished schematic.  I post this stuff mainly so I can print
it.  I don't have a printer at home, so I download it an print it at work.
And taking a second look at the schematic that is posted, it is one rev back,
but you should be able to get an idea of what I am doing.

    I am hopefully going to set up the experiment this weekend to check the
drift.  A Stanford Research Systems SR620 is accidently going to go home with
me for the weekend to take the measurements (this thing is close to being the
ultimate frequency counter, the HP equiv is better, but this is the instrument
my company got me).  I have a block of blue ice in the freezer as we speak, a
heating pad on my dresser, and Friday I will pick up one of those cheap foam
ice chests, I mean enviromental chambers, from K-Mart.

    So far, the finger test has indicated that the thing seems to be stable,
but that is the only result.

    -Jim

Ian Fritz wrote:

> Jim --
>
> I'd be interested in knowing more about your compensation experiments. I
> hope you'll keep the list posted on your results!
>
>   Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <patchell at silcom.com>
> To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 7:47 AM
> Subject: VCO breadboard
>
> >     Got enough of a breadboard for a temperature compensated VCO going
> > last night to start doing some serious testing.  I need an environmental
> > chamber.  I figured I would go over to K-Mart tonight and purchase one.
> > And when I am done making the measurements, I figured I could use it to
> > keep beer on ice while at the beach.
> >
> >     -Jim
> >
> >
> >




From jdec at mindspring.com  Wed May 17 16:43:33 2000
From: jdec at mindspring.com (jdec at mindspring.com)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:43:33 -0400
Subject: Mouintan Wiev  Phase accumulator
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.958574613.0.89740500@www.springmail.com>

Jim Patchell <patchell at silcom.com> wrote:

>This will probably not be much help, but if you can 
>locate a copy of HalChamberlains _Musical Applications of
>Microprocessors_ , he has several chapters that deal with 
>this subject.

Point your browsers to:

http://www.paia.com/authors.htm

Cheers,

Jeff




From rico303 at wanadoo.dk  Wed May 17 18:23:24 2000
From: rico303 at wanadoo.dk (Martin Johansen)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:23:24 +0200
Subject: ASM1 PCB's 
Message-ID: <LPBBJCEOPOFFNHOCLCLPAEHFCAAA.rico303@wanadoo.dk>

Do someone have a file of ASM1 PCB
Martin



From grichter at execpc.com  Wed May 17 20:48:01 2000
From: grichter at execpc.com (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:48:01 -0500
Subject: Mouintan Wiev  Phase accumulator
Message-ID: <200005171848.NAA30156@mailgw01.execpc.com>

>     But, I am attempting to resist the Digital Demon....he will not sway me
> from the true path of analog....
>

Putting on Pontiff hat...

Just as electronics itself is a subset of chemistry,
"digital electronics" is just an overblown methodology that exists
as a subset of analog electronics.

Any device that uses a voltage is always analog,
or more correctly "analogue", to some real world
process that is being modeled, and bits are usually
represented by voltages or magnetic fields which
are inherently analog.

For some reason Universities have chosen to ignore
this fact and teach "digital" as if it existed in
some perfect mathematical universe. You could sort of
say that the concept of "digital" is a consensual
hallucination.

I think what you really mean is using continuous time
computing circuitry instead of discrete time computing
circuitry, which has been proven to have perceptual
advantages for audio.

The process of "sampling" is a modulation process
that produces sum and difference frequencies just
like ring modulation. If you sample a 21Khz signal
at 40Khz you produce a 61Khz artifact and a 19Khz
artifact. So at more than half the sampling rate,
the spectrum is reflected into the bandwidth of interest.

You can prove this to yourself using an "analog"
sample and hold with an external clock input
(like an ARP 2600). Sample an audio signal
at an audio rate and notice the similarity to
ring modulation.

I have been experimenting with event driven sampling
using flash converters. Since a flash converter
has no clock signal to heterodyne against, the primary
"pollutants" are quantization noise, and an event
"clock" can be derived from a parity tree of all
the ADC bit outputs.

The question is: Is this actually "unsampled" digitization
or is it simply pushing the sampling rate up to the
slew rate of the flash converter?

Removing Pontiff hat....



From tom at synth-diy.you-bastards.com  Wed May 17 21:08:08 2000
From: tom at synth-diy.you-bastards.com (Tom May)
Date: 17 May 2000 12:08:08 -0700
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
In-Reply-To: "Theo"'s message of "Wed, 17 May 2000 06:37:41 +0200"
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net> <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de> <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <E12s9Av-0000SX-00@no-spam.you-bastards.com>

"Theo" <t.hogers at home.nl> writes:

> Tought about that too.
> Srtings have to handel a lot of tention and are subject to mechanical wear.
> All in all resistive wire strings seems not so easy.
> 
> Maybe resistive frets could be a possibility.
> Some one knows about a hard reststive material?

Any resistive solution will require the player to wear non-conductive
gloves on both hands unless you think it's cool to vary the pitch with
playing pressure, sweat, right-hand damping, etc.  Sounds like it's
bordering on the theremin in terms of playability.

fTom.

> Cheers Theo
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
> To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 3:53 PM
> Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > Harry Bissell wrote:
> >
> > > Other people have tried the resistance of the string, constant current,
> etc.
> >
> > Why doesn't this work? Seems quite simple to me: make strings of
> > resistive wire (Konstantan etc.), connect all frets to ground, insulate
> > the strings from each other and measure the resistance between end of
> > the string (at the bridge) and ground. Maybe problems with bad contact
> > between frets and strings?
> >
> > Paul Perry wrote:
> >
> > >Yeah, but, since the two frets are adjacent, you just need a bit of
> > logic to
> > >say, 'hey the 3rd string touches fret n and n+1, that means n'
> > >Now, you're going to come up with a counter example where there are more
> > >than one
> > >touching the same fret.. but, given that there are only 6 strings &
> > they are
> > >only being fretted at a maximum of two adjacent points..
> >
> > Like for a conventional switch matrix, this would require a diode in
> > series with each "switch". Maybe the strings and frets can be made of
> > semiconductor, strings p-doped and frets n-doped? ;-)
> >
> > Ingo
> >



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Wed May 17 21:52:32 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 20:52:32 +0100
Subject: Some bits for sale
Message-ID: <000e01bfc03b$a6a68e80$2366883e@default>

Hi all,

All this talk of guitars... I have a Boss MZ-2 Distortion pedal for
sale. But I also have a TB303 SuperLadder Module up for grabs too. Fully
built and tested, complete with engraved Schaeffer front panel.

Information at:

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/forsale.htm

All serious offers considered.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm










From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed May 17 22:22:17 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:22:17 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net> <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de> <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo> <E12s9Av-0000SX-00@no-spam.you-bastards.com>
Message-ID: <00c001bfc03d$98ea6760$0400a8c0@Theo>

Not nesseserely.
The function of the resistive frets would be to solve the string / fret
shorting problem.
A resistive fret with 6 taps can be used instead of the usual cut frets.
There would be no relation bedween the resistance and pitch.

Effects like string buzz and the body capasity/resistance of the player are
more like a inconviniance than a problem.
See Harry's post "Guitar Synth why it won't work !" for more about the real
troublesome stuf.

Cheers Theo


----- Original Message -----
From: Tom May <tom at synth-diy.you-bastards.com>
>
> Any resistive solution will require the player to wear non-conductive
> gloves on both hands unless you think it's cool to vary the pitch with
> playing pressure, sweat, right-hand damping, etc.  Sounds like it's
> bordering on the theremin in terms of playability.
>
> fTom.
>





From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Wed May 17 23:15:57 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:15:57 GMT
Subject: Mouintan Wiev Phase accumulator
Message-ID: <20000517211557.60492.qmail@hotmail.com>

>From: Jim Patchell <patchell at silcom.com>

>
>This will probably not be much help, but if you can locate a copy of Hal 
>Chamberlains _Musical Applications of Microprocessors_ ,  he has several 
> >chapters that deal with this subject.

I have the book, but not here where i am!

>I have been giving some thought to this topic as well.  The circuits <in 
>Hal's book are a bit dated.  These types of things can be pretty >easily
>implemented in software, even on a pretty modest PC these days.  Or >you 
>can >implement them in firmware in a DSP chip,

Yes one can that but thats not the fun part, a DIY DSP synth
is boring since DIY is about building your self so i thinked
why not do a Digital DIY synth!!

and if you are really >hardcore,and want a hardware solution, a Xilinx gate 
array could >implement >thisfairly easily.  I wish I could afford the Virtex 
 >chips, you could >build quite a machine in one of those.

That is what im doing! Being hard core and Inplementing
the damned thing on a Gate array!
Not just a single oscillator but an entire Synth! !

Actually i dont think you need a Virtex
some of the lesser gated devices vill do fine!

>Also, DAC's these days are CHEAP.  I was looking at 24 bit DAC's on >the 
>Burr Brown web site (for use in a motion controller, not a >musical
>application :-(  ) and was stunned at how little they cost.  Burr Brown has
>a 6 channel DAC (24 bits, 192KHz Sample Rate) that they list for $8 (in
>1000's I assume).

Yes i saw that to, thats nice!

>But, I am attempting to resist the Digital Demon....he will not sway >me 
>from the true path of analog....

Well this is a hybride, 24 bit oscillator,
analogue wave shaping analogue filter and VCA.
Multiplexed 16 bit LFO and ENV etc.

AP
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From ka4hjh at gte.net  Thu May 18 01:54:38 2000
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:54:38 -0400
Subject: Molex connectors for OB SEM-1?
Message-ID: <p04310102b548e0f32370@[63.25.40.144]>

I'm ordering the molex connectors to patch out my SEM-1's. I think 
I've figured out the proper plug, but just to be safe I downloaded 
the datasheet from molex. I should say TRIED to d/l; iCab kept giving 
me errors, Anarchie got the file but it's messed up. Acrobat Exchange 
says it's damaged, MacGSview gives two errors and refuses to render. 
Of course the other pdf (a mere sales flyer) renders fine.


The flyer was done on a Mac, the datasheet on an NT box. Coincidence?

I really don't care. I'd just like to confirm that I have the right part!


And yes, if/when I get this rigged up I WILL post pictures, info, 
etc. I'm in the process of scanning the manuals now.

Now does Digi-key have the gold-plated pins?...  8^)


-- 
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"



From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Thu May 18 03:46:23 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:46:23 GMT
Subject: Need a AVR SPI I2C EEPROM, etc serial programmer!!
Message-ID: <20000518014623.78574.qmail@hotmail.com>

Here is a nice programmer:
http://www.CS.UniBO.it/~lanconel/ponyprogsch.html

AP


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From patchell at silcom.com  Thu May 18 04:57:02 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:57:02 -0700
Subject: Mouintan Wiev Phase accumulator
References: <20000517211557.60492.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <39235BFE.1C98CB0@silcom.com>



Augusto Pinoche wrote:

>
> That is what im doing! Being hard core and Inplementing
> the damned thing on a Gate array!
> Not just a single oscillator but an entire Synth! !
>
> Actually i dont think you need a Virtex
> some of the lesser gated devices vill do fine!
>

    But the virtex would be fun.  I was sort of thinking of using the 4010E or
the Spartan parts (XCS40).  With their dual port rams, it would be pretty easy
to implement the circuits that are in Hal Chamberlains book.  Putting a
parrallel multiplier into the chip really cramps it a bit, if you want to do
this.  I can't remember how much of the chip a 16x16 multiplier used.


-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From nikro at itn.liu.se  Thu May 18 09:11:33 2000
From: nikro at itn.liu.se (Niklas =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F6nnberg?=)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:11:33 +0200
Subject: Filter
Message-ID: <392397A5.AD44993@itn.liu.se>

Morning!
I found a simple filter in Walter Jung's book 'IC op-amp cookbook'. So I
put it together, but the filter self-oscillates... I have tried to
reduce that with six 1N4148 between the output and the -input, but that
doesn't do it. Can someone help me?
http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/synth/filter.gif
Thanks
/Niklas
___________________________________

Niklas R?nnberg, Lecturer (Media Technology)

Dept of Science and Technology (ITN)
Link?ping University, Campus Norrk?ping

Phone: +46(0)11-363316 Fax:+46(0)11-363270
E-mail: nikro at itn.liu.se
Homepage: http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/

    "The semiotic $64,000 question:
  Why and how is who communicating what
     to whom and with what effect?"





From debus at cityweb.de  Thu May 18 10:56:19 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:56:19 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net> <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de> <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <3923B032.681F84BB@cityweb.de>



Theo wrote:
> 
> Tought about that too.
> Srtings have to handel a lot of tention and are subject to mechanical wear.
> All in all resistive wire strings seems not so easy.

I didn't mean to tune the wires to accurate guitar string pitch. But
yes, strings have to be replaced from time to time ;-)

> Maybe resistive frets could be a possibility.
> Some one knows about a hard reststive material?

How should that work? If you ground all the strings and sense the
resistance between fret end and ground, you can't tell if one or more
strings are in touch with a fret. Even if you scan the strings, i.e.
ground only one string at a time it still seems difficult.

Ingo




From michael.schmid at gmx.at  Thu May 18 13:26:00 2000
From: michael.schmid at gmx.at (Michael Schmid)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:26:00 +0200
Subject: J112 Pinning
Message-ID: <3923C47A.1D6627B@gmx.at>

Hi,

I have a JFET J112 here by me and can't find a datasheet of it. I think
Siliconix (Vishay) is the manufacturer. Maybe one of you has one.

Thank you,

Michael

--
michael schmid //  linz // austria




From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu May 18 13:56:07 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:56:07 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net> <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de> <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo> <3923B032.681F84BB@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <000a01bfc0c0$0d96be60$0400a8c0@Theo>


----- Original Message -----
From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )


>
>
> Theo wrote:
> >
> > Tought about that too.
> > Srtings have to handel a lot of tention and are subject to mechanical
wear.
> > All in all resistive wire strings seems not so easy.
>
> I didn't mean to tune the wires to accurate guitar string pitch. But
> yes, strings have to be replaced from time to time ;-)
>
> > Maybe resistive frets could be a possibility.
> > Some one knows about a hard reststive material?
>
> How should that work? If you ground all the strings and sense the
> resistance between fret end and ground, you can't tell if one or more
> strings are in touch with a fret. Even if you scan the strings, i.e.
> ground only one string at a time it still seems difficult.

The same way as cut frets, six wires to the fret, one pro string.
Need a material with a high resistance prob somthing like 100k/cm.
The advantages would be; there are no gaps in the fret, you can sence bent
notes and easier mounting.
The big cons are obviously the price and extra implementation problems
(software).

More a thought experiment than a practical solution realy, although it might
work if you can make the frets.

Cheers Theo

>
> Ingo
>




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu May 18 14:00:28 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:00:28 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net> <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de> <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo> <3923B032.681F84BB@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <3923DB5C.2E8DD4F2@prodigy.net>

Here's a new silly idea... Make the frets out of material that is alternately
conducting/non-conducting... like "Zebra Strips" (tm) an elastomer used to
connect liquid crystal displays to PCBs (by compression) in cheap pocket
calculators....

not as silly as the semiconductor frets... but if I could buy THEM they would not
be silly at all.....

H^) harry

Ingo Debus wrote:

> Theo wrote:
> >
> > Tought about that too.
> > Srtings have to handel a lot of tention and are subject to mechanical wear.
> > All in all resistive wire strings seems not so easy.
>
> I didn't mean to tune the wires to accurate guitar string pitch. But
> yes, strings have to be replaced from time to time ;-)
>
> > Maybe resistive frets could be a possibility.
> > Some one knows about a hard reststive material?
>
> How should that work? If you ground all the strings and sense the
> resistance between fret end and ground, you can't tell if one or more
> strings are in touch with a fret. Even if you scan the strings, i.e.
> ground only one string at a time it still seems difficult.
>
> Ingo




From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu May 18 14:07:02 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:07:02 +0200
Subject: J112 Pinning
References: <3923C47A.1D6627B@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <001301bfc0c1$93b1fe00$0400a8c0@Theo>

Go, go me friend to http://www.vishay.com and type in the product box on the
upper left side the magic word: J112.
And thou shall find the grail thy seek in glamoures PDF format.

Theo


----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Schmid <michael.schmid at gmx.at>
To: synth-diy <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 1:26 PM
Subject: J112 Pinning


> Hi,
>
> I have a JFET J112 here by me and can't find a datasheet of it. I think
> Siliconix (Vishay) is the manufacturer. Maybe one of you has one.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Michael
>
> --
> michael schmid //  linz // austria
>
>




From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Thu May 18 15:41:53 2000
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:41:53 -0600
Subject: J112 Pinning
References: <3923C47A.1D6627B@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <001801bfc0ce$d4add020$d1ab183f@Studio1>

http://www.onsemiconductor.com/pub/prod/0,1824,products1_ProdSum_Base=J112,0
0.html


  Ian




From patchell at silcom.com  Thu May 18 16:05:45 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:05:45 -0700
Subject: J112 Pinning
References: <3923C47A.1D6627B@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <3923F8B9.FC1B8255@silcom.com>

    You are correct, J112 is Siliconix (Vishay now).

    Vgs(off) -5
    rds(on) 50 ohms
    Id(off) 5pA
    ton 4nS

    Pinout, this is going to be clumbsy

        Bottom Veiw
        Flat Side
        D-S-G
        Round Side

    Application:all purpose analog switches.

Michael Schmid wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a JFET J112 here by me and can't find a datasheet of it. I think
> Siliconix (Vishay) is the manufacturer. Maybe one of you has one.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Michael
>
> --
> michael schmid //  linz // austria




From paulvb at home.nl  Thu May 18 16:22:26 2000
From: paulvb at home.nl (paul)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:22:26 +0200
Subject: book
Message-ID: <004f01bfc0d4$7e30f280$0d0aa8c0@home.nl>

hello, i was wondering if someone knew a good book on synth electronics. I have some basic knowledge about analog (modular) synths.
I read alot of things on the web. And I am currently working on the elektor Formant (I have the books (in dutch))
I am looking for a book on analog synths in general which goes indepth into electronic principles.


thanks 
paul
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From michael.schmid at gmx.at  Thu May 18 16:38:40 2000
From: michael.schmid at gmx.at (Michael Schmid)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:38:40 +0200
Subject: the perfect 15v psu
Message-ID: <3923F1A1.F005BF7C@gmx.at>

sorry for my stupid message before. i certainly found the sheet on the
manufacturers homepage. i won't trust partminer(tm) anymore. it didn't
find anything.

an other question now. i'm looking for the perfect +/- 15v power supply.
i think rene schmitz's is one of those, but it's hard to get the LM325N.
on the national homepage i just found the LM325H. may i use it
equivalent?

thank you,

michael

--
michael schmid // linz // austria




From patchell at silcom.com  Thu May 18 17:00:28 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:00:28 -0700
Subject: MAT04
Message-ID: <3924058C.ED01704B@silcom.com>

    The MAT04's I ordered came in, finally.  Anybody interested in
purchasing any from me can do so.  They are $4.00 US, shipping is $1.00
per order for US, $2.00 otherwise.  Email me for details if you are
interested.

    -Jim





From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Thu May 18 22:08:39 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:08:39 -0700
Subject: Mouintan Wiev Phase accumulator
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18D6@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

I have the stuff I need (I hope) to start developing CPLDs like the XL9500.
Haven't tried it, though. There are some nifty (gulp) digital things to try.

--Timster

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: patchell [mailto:patchell at silcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 7:57 PM
To: Augusto Pinoche
Cc: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Subject: Re: Mouintan Wiev Phase accumulator




Augusto Pinoche wrote:

>
> That is what im doing! Being hard core and Inplementing
> the damned thing on a Gate array!
> Not just a single oscillator but an entire Synth! !
>
> Actually i dont think you need a Virtex
> some of the lesser gated devices vill do fine!
>

    But the virtex would be fun.  I was sort of thinking of using the 4010E or
the Spartan parts (XCS40).  With their dual port rams, it would be pretty easy
to implement the circuits that are in Hal Chamberlains book.  Putting a
parrallel multiplier into the chip really cramps it a bit, if you want to do
this.  I can't remember how much of the chip a 16x16 multiplier used.


-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Thu May 18 22:28:01 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:28:01 +0100
Subject: the perfect 15v psu
References: <3923F1A1.F005BF7C@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <007b01bfc10a$7389aee0$1d3b883e@default>

Hi all,

MS>another question now. i'm looking for the perfect +/- 15v power
supply.

Don't forget the LM723. Its really old, but what a great little
performer. See the National website or others for the datasheet.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm








From matti at devo.com  Fri May 19 07:05:51 2000
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:05:51 -0500
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
In-Reply-To: <000a01bfc0c0$0d96be60$0400a8c0@Theo>
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net> <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de> <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo> <3923B032.681F84BB@cityweb.de> <000a01bfc0c0$0d96be60$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <958712751.3924cbaf6ac20@whipit.devo.com>

Why bother with resistive wire at all? Why not just put a different set of 
oscillators at the end of each string, and a differently-valued resistor per 
string to differentiate between those strings. Normal guitar wire should work 
fine for that.


Quoting Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
> To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 10:56 AM
> Subject: Re: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > Theo wrote:
> > >
> > > Tought about that too.
> > > Srtings have to handel a lot of tention and are subject to
> mechanical
> wear.
> > > All in all resistive wire strings seems not so easy.
> >
> > I didn't mean to tune the wires to accurate guitar string pitch. But
> > yes, strings have to be replaced from time to time ;-)
> >
> > > Maybe resistive frets could be a possibility.
> > > Some one knows about a hard reststive material?
> >
> > How should that work? If you ground all the strings and sense the
> > resistance between fret end and ground, you can't tell if one or more
> > strings are in touch with a fret. Even if you scan the strings, i.e.
> > ground only one string at a time it still seems difficult.
> 
> The same way as cut frets, six wires to the fret, one pro string.
> Need a material with a high resistance prob somthing like 100k/cm.
> The advantages would be; there are no gaps in the fret, you can sence
> bent
> notes and easier mounting.
> The big cons are obviously the price and extra implementation problems
> (software).
> 
> More a thought experiment than a practical solution realy, although it
> might
> work if you can make the frets.
> 
> Cheers Theo
> 
> >
> > Ingo
> >
> 



From ka4hjh at gte.net  Fri May 19 09:35:32 2000
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 03:35:32 -0400
Subject: Manhattan Research album released
Message-ID: <p04310105b54a9e9d2939@[63.23.233.16]>

I have in my hot little hands the long-awaited Manhattan Research, 
inc., album. Two CD's and a 144 page hard cover book chronicling the 
electronic career of Raymond Scott. I've been waiting quite a while 
for this.

Lots of pictures, commentary by that Moog guy, etc.


-- 
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"



From baman at freemail.hu  Fri May 19 09:37:51 2000
From: baman at freemail.hu (Ingrad Baman)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:37:51 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Matador
Message-ID: <freemail.1000419093751.67931@fm6.freemail.hu>

Hello!

Somebody suggested this list to me when he heard about my problem. I hope I'll find a solution here from you.
I've got an old synth from a friend. I'm really interested in it and I'd like to hear its voice, but as I see there's no 
power supply in it! I've never seen (and thought) a way like this, because there's no cable coming out, there's no 
any hole on the surface for any power cable. There's just only one output for the sound (DIN). Inside I see a place 
seems for a changeable power supply (accumulator?).

I've made some photos to help recognize this stuff. See at http://www.extra.hu/baman/matador/

I've searched the web about Matador and found some pages but these all about the Matador made by Farfisa. My 
one contains the label 'Matador', but there's no other signs on it, just a little metal table on the back says:

F. A. Bohm KG. (+ address) [In the word Bohm the 'o' wears two points, it's a german name].

I need your help to find a description about this synth especially about the power supply. I'd like to repair it and use 
it if possible.


Thanks&bye.



From kynsi at boomboomclap.demon.nl  Fri May 19 10:37:14 2000
From: kynsi at boomboomclap.demon.nl (Kyn Si)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:37:14 +0200
Subject: website
Message-ID: <E12si03-0003aJ-00@post.mail.nl.demon.net>

Hi everyone,

I just want to let you know that I have completely updated my website. It 
contains more music, including one of my live-gigs, and other stuff.

go to: http://www.boomboomclap.demon.nl/kynsi

for those without a flashplug-in, the music can be found at:

http://www.boomboomclap.demon.nl/kynsi/emusic.htm

The kit I used for the music is:

Oberheim OB-Mx
Roland JX-8P
Roland TR-808
Oakley TB3030 (live only)
E-mu ESI-32
Alesis HR-16
Yamaha TX-81Z
Digitech TSR-12
Roland RE-3


Adios,

Kynsi.




_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.

"the modern day composer refuses to die" - E. Varese

            "real music never will" - K.S.

        http://www.boomboomclap.demon.nl/kynsi

_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.



From mitch at sirius.com  Fri May 19 11:38:07 2000
From: mitch at sirius.com (Mitchell Hudson)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 02:38:07 -0700
Subject: Manhattan Research album released
References: <p04310105b54a9e9d2939@[63.23.233.16]>
Message-ID: <39250B7E.7271629D@sirius.com>

    I have this also and I have to say it is a very beautiful book with
a CD in each cover. The quality is top notch. The tracks are really
fascinating though a lot of the tracks were made for commercials they
are really worth listening to. These are commercials you have never
heard before... My favorites are the twinky commercials and the Bufferin
one with Jim Henson.

    my 2?

--M

KA4HJH wrote:

> I have in my hot little hands the long-awaited Manhattan Research,
> inc., album. Two CD's and a 144 page hard cover book chronicling the
> electronic career of Raymond Scott. I've been waiting quite a while
> for this.
>
> Lots of pictures, commentary by that Moog guy, etc.
>
> --
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"




From debus at cityweb.de  Fri May 19 11:49:32 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:49:32 +0200
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net> <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de> <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo> <E12s9Av-0000SX-00@no-spam.you-bastards.com>
Message-ID: <39250E2C.EE04D8F0@cityweb.de>



Tom May wrote:
> Any resistive solution will require the player to wear non-conductive
> gloves on both hands unless you think it's cool to vary the pitch with
> playing pressure, sweat, right-hand damping, etc.  Sounds like it's
> bordering on the theremin in terms of playability.

The thinnest Konstantan (sp?) wire I can get here (0.06 mm diameter; I
doubt this could be used as a string) has 170 ohms per meter. A guitar
string is about 0.63 meters long. The resistance of the human skin is
much higher, so I don't think this would be much of a problem. I'd guess
some dirt etc. on the string or fret making a few additional ohms at the
contact place would cause much more trouble. The distance between frets
(at 12th fret) is about 17 mm, with 170 ohms/m this is less than 3 ohms!
The Trautonium uses a wire wound string to get a higher string
resistance, perhaps that's a solution.
I didn't mean to derive a pitch control voltage directly from the string
resistance,  this resistance is just to determine at which fret the
string is fingered, i.e. there have to be thresholds in the detection
circuit. (If one wanted a V/octave control voltage derived directly from the
string resistance the frets would have to be equally spaced, this would
be unconvenient for most guitarists).

But I remember a picture of the bassist of the German band "The Can"
wearing a glove on the left hand. Maybe this was the reason?

Ingo




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri May 19 15:02:17 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:02:17 -0400
Subject: MIDI-guitar (was: Touch Switches/TS instruments )
References: <15.3bf9f7d.264f1e94@aol.com> <958258822.391dde868a18a@whipit.devo.com> <018b01bfbd3a$b652dd60$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E2381.DCFBFBAC@magma.ca> <000b01bfbd62$9acaf460$0400a8c0@Theo> <391E47EF.9610F3F8@nni.com> <391ED12E.3A5273BC@prodigy.net> <39200146.C45BD7B2@cityweb.de> <001301bfbfb9$a3601020$0400a8c0@Theo> <E12s9Av-0000SX-00@no-spam.you-bastards.com> <39250E2C.EE04D8F0@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <39253B58.1CC1AAE7@prodigy.net>

You don't need to move the frets to get V/oct response... just an antilog
converter...
Giutars are already "expo" by nature...

H^)

Ingo Debus wrote:

> Tom May wrote:
> > Any resistive solution will require the player to wear non-conductive
> > gloves on both hands unless you think it's cool to vary the pitch with
> > playing pressure, sweat, right-hand damping, etc.  Sounds like it's
> > bordering on the theremin in terms of playability.
>
> The thinnest Konstantan (sp?) wire I can get here (0.06 mm diameter; I
> doubt this could be used as a string) has 170 ohms per meter. A guitar
> string is about 0.63 meters long. The resistance of the human skin is
> much higher, so I don't think this would be much of a problem. I'd guess
> some dirt etc. on the string or fret making a few additional ohms at the
> contact place would cause much more trouble. The distance between frets
> (at 12th fret) is about 17 mm, with 170 ohms/m this is less than 3 ohms!
> The Trautonium uses a wire wound string to get a higher string
> resistance, perhaps that's a solution.
> I didn't mean to derive a pitch control voltage directly from the string
> resistance,  this resistance is just to determine at which fret the
> string is fingered, i.e. there have to be thresholds in the detection
> circuit. (If one wanted a V/octave control voltage derived directly from the
> string resistance the frets would have to be equally spaced, this would
> be unconvenient for most guitarists).
>
> But I remember a picture of the bassist of the German band "The Can"
> wearing a glove on the left hand. Maybe this was the reason?
>
> Ingo




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri May 19 16:40:54 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 00:40:54 +1000
Subject: Guitar synths (everyone's rant)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000519144054.00e9e700@popa.melbpc.org.au>

The problem with guitar synths?

Everyone wants it to do different (probably
incompatable) things.
Some people just want something so they can transfer 
tab notation to midi tracks, or as a composing tool.

Some want to operate in realtime, controlling one or
six synths, which might be midi or cv.

Some want to really play a guitar, with the full 
features of a guitar expressionwise, but the sound
comes via synth techniques withall the flexibility 
that entails.

Face it, nothing is going to do all this and more.
As was rightly pointed out, it isn't even possible 
over MIDI, though I'm suprised nobody said 
'individual note pressure' yet. And nobody said 
'neural network' which is prob the only way to extract enough
info quickly enough.

Personally, I'd like to see a 'stick' shaped controller 
so people could impress the audience in a rockgod wanker 
style while twirling the knob to ..... oh never mind.

Actually what I *really* want is a reference book that 
covers doing sine synthesis etc by microprocessors, some
kind of how to DCO. Any ideas?

Paul Perry Melbourne Australia




From chordman at flash.net  Fri May 19 15:38:21 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:38:21
Subject: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
Message-ID: <200005192234.RAA23012@bunyip.flash.net>

Well, dang, thank you Don.  This is what I've been mulling for
this thread; Don just nailed it so I'll do naught but simply
agree.  Any guitar synth I've seen has precious little in terms
of the controller aspect of expressivness necessary.  We're luck
to get pitch bend per string with current units, let alone all
of the harmonic controlling methods that guitarists use (as Don
aptly notes) without even thinking about it.



Don Tillman <don at till.com> wrote:
>   Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:02:17 -0400
>   From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>
>   You don't need to move the frets to get V/oct response... just an antilog
>   converter...  Guitars are already "expo" by nature...
>
>Harry, Harry, Harry...  It's I/x, not exponential.  *Imgine* what the
>fingerboard would look like if it were exponential!  :-)
>
>----------------
>
>I have a lot to say about the topic of guitar synths, many pages
>worth, and I'll probably post an article about it on my web site some
>time in the near future.  But for now... speaking as a guitarist,
>keyboard player, sythesist, electrical engineer, synth builder and
>music writer, I think this discussion is missing the point of a guitar
>synthesizer.  Just as I think all the current guitar synth
>manufacturers are missing the point.
>
>For a guitarist, playing a particular note is not all that important.
>All this work figuring out the note that's being fretted seems silly
>when the guitarist himself typically doesn't know what note he's
>playing.  What's important is how the note is played.
>
>A guitar is a remarkably expressive instrument.  I can play a note in
>a thousand different ways depending on pick position, pick angle, how
>tightly I hold the pick, pick thickness, tapping, pulling off,
>bending, reverse bending, use of harmonics, buzzes, palm muting, my
>own personal variation of palm muting, use of feedback, and so forth.
>Any guitar synth mechanism that can't go head-to-head with this sort
>of expressibility is going to be toy.
>
>What's needed is a way of transfering the guitarists natural modes of
>expression, or something reasonably close, to a synthesizer. 
>
>  -- Don
>
>-- 
>Don Tillman
>Palo Alto, California, USA
>don at till.com
>http://www.till.com
>
>

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri May 19 21:17:23 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:17:23 +0200
Subject: Matador
References: <freemail.1000419093751.67931@fm6.freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <000d01bfc1c6$dc8a4dc0$0400a8c0@Theo>

F.A. B?hm KG is (was) the name of a German DIY organ and synth kit
manufacturer.
The company is still active as: B?hm electronic GmbH.
Their focus is on the "allein underhalter" & home organ market.
www.boehm-electronic.com

The company had its 5 minutes of fame with the B?hm 12/24 expander.
A 12 or 24 voice four operator PhM (FM) synth module, came around short
after the DX7.
It may very well be the first multi-timbal module uberhaubt.
Both Yamaha and B?hm denied that the 12/24 was a FM synth and Yahama didn't
use B?hm drum technology either.

Hope this helps,

Theo


----- Original Message -----
From: Ingrad Baman <baman at freemail.hu>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Cc: <baman at freemail.hu>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 9:37 AM
Subject: Matador


> Hello!
>
> Somebody suggested this list to me when he heard about my problem. I hope
I'll find a solution here from you.
> I've got an old synth from a friend. I'm really interested in it and I'd
like to hear its voice, but as I see there's no
> power supply in it! I've never seen (and thought) a way like this, because
there's no cable coming out, there's no
> any hole on the surface for any power cable. There's just only one output
for the sound (DIN). Inside I see a place
> seems for a changeable power supply (accumulator?).
>
> I've made some photos to help recognize this stuff. See at
http://www.extra.hu/baman/matador/
>
> I've searched the web about Matador and found some pages but these all
about the Matador made by Farfisa. My
> one contains the label 'Matador', but there's no other signs on it, just a
little metal table on the back says:
>
> F. A. Bohm KG. (+ address) [In the word Bohm the 'o' wears two points,
it's a german name].
>
> I need your help to find a description about this synth especially about
the power supply. I'd like to repair it and use
> it if possible.
>
>
> Thanks&bye.




From gendreau at rochester.rr.com  Fri May 19 22:30:16 2000
From: gendreau at rochester.rr.com (Dan Gendreau)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:30:16 -0400
Subject: noise/hum contermeasures?
Message-ID: <000001bfc1d1$0aa5b1e0$0400a8c0@dan>

Okay, I have started making modifications to my TR808 and on my first mod
(BD tune) I have noticed a significant amount of 60Hz hum getting into the
BD voice.

My question is:
    Am I going about this all wrong? I had planned to run a ribbon cable out
of the 808 case into an outboard project box with pots. Internally, I have
used wire-wrap wires soldered from the ribbon cable to appropriate points in
the circuit.

Are there things I should do to improve RFI rejection?

Another thing I was thinking about is that the 808 internal power supply is
a bit out-dated in design and is completely unshielded. Its probably putting
out all kinds of RFI. Maybe I should remove it in favor of an external wall
wart...

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
-Dan Gendreau




From gendreau at rochester.rr.com  Fri May 19 23:05:36 2000
From: gendreau at rochester.rr.com (Dan Gendreau)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:05:36 -0400
Subject: modular jack markers?
Message-ID: <000101bfc1d5$fac013b0$0400a8c0@dan>

I am putting together the minimodular and thought it would be nice to mark
the inputs/outputs with different colors.

I seem to remember someone mentioning finding a source for colored plastic
washers to put on their jacks to serve this purpose. I am working with 1/8"
jacks. Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks,
-Dan G.




From prospective_volition at hotmail.com  Fri May 19 23:55:40 2000
From: prospective_volition at hotmail.com (vol)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 09:55:40 +1200
Subject: Juno-1
Message-ID: <20000519215837.12331.qmail@hotmail.com>

I have an Alpha Juno-1 and would like to know if anyone has built a controller for it like the PG-300. Or know where I can get some shematics for the PG-300. I think thats what it's called.
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From don at till.com  Fri May 19 23:56:36 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:56:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <39253B58.1CC1AAE7@prodigy.net> (message from Harry Bissell on
	Fri, 19 May 2000 09:02:17 -0400)
Message-ID: <200005192156.OAA06901@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:02:17 -0400
   From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>

   You don't need to move the frets to get V/oct response... just an antilog
   converter...  Guitars are already "expo" by nature...

Harry, Harry, Harry...  It's I/x, not exponential.  *Imgine* what the
fingerboard would look like if it were exponential!  :-)

----------------

I have a lot to say about the topic of guitar synths, many pages
worth, and I'll probably post an article about it on my web site some
time in the near future.  But for now... speaking as a guitarist,
keyboard player, sythesist, electrical engineer, synth builder and
music writer, I think this discussion is missing the point of a guitar
synthesizer.  Just as I think all the current guitar synth
manufacturers are missing the point.

For a guitarist, playing a particular note is not all that important.
All this work figuring out the note that's being fretted seems silly
when the guitarist himself typically doesn't know what note he's
playing.  What's important is how the note is played.

A guitar is a remarkably expressive instrument.  I can play a note in
a thousand different ways depending on pick position, pick angle, how
tightly I hold the pick, pick thickness, tapping, pulling off,
bending, reverse bending, use of harmonics, buzzes, palm muting, my
own personal variation of palm muting, use of feedback, and so forth.
Any guitar synth mechanism that can't go head-to-head with this sort
of expressibility is going to be toy.

What's needed is a way of transfering the guitarists natural modes of
expression, or something reasonably close, to a synthesizer. 

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From Colin.Fraser at scottishpower.plc.uk  Sat May 20 00:59:47 2000
From: Colin.Fraser at scottishpower.plc.uk (Fraser, Colin J)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:59:47 +0100
Subject: noise/hum contermeasures?
Message-ID: <01F675ABB3FFD111A6AA0008C728D5A501FDC263@catsprnts10.cat.scottishpower.plc.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Gendreau [mailto:gendreau at rochester.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 9:30 PM
> To: synthDIY
> Subject: noise/hum contermeasures?
> 
> Okay, I have started making modifications to my TR808 and on 
> my first mod
> (BD tune) I have noticed a significant amount of 60Hz hum 
> getting into the
> BD voice.
> 
> My question is:
>     Am I going about this all wrong? I had planned to run a 
> ribbon cable out
> of the 808 case into an outboard project box with pots. 
> Internally, I have
> used wire-wrap wires soldered from the ribbon cable to 
> appropriate points in
> the circuit.

I had a similar problem with my cloned 808 circuits.
They are based on bandpass filters with high resonance, so if there is any
mains hum picked up and the filter is tuned near the hum frequency, or its
harmonics, it will boost it nicely.
You either need to keep the leads as short as possible, or incorporate a
voltage controlled element, and control it from your external box.

Colin f



From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat May 20 01:37:01 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 01:37:01 +0200
Subject: Matador
References: <freemail.1000419093751.67931@fm6.freemail.hu> <000d01bfc1c6$dc8a4dc0$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <004601bfc1eb$4214d4c0$133f363e@jhaible>

> The company had its 5 minutes of fame with the B?hm 12/24 expander.
> A 12 or 24 voice four operator PhM (FM) synth module, came around short
> after the DX7.

I used to own one of these B?hm PM modules (don't remember which one),
and got rid of it as soon as I could. I thought it was plain horrible.

But I still have one Dr. B?hm device, the Phasing Rotor 78. Excellent
analogue Ensemble effect unit. Available as an expansion module for
some of their organs, and also as stand alone version. Must be quite
rare - if you ever find one, grab it.

JH.







From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat May 20 03:07:55 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 11:07:55 +1000
Subject: noise/hum contermeasures?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000520010755.00e6dd14@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 11:59 PM 19/05/00 +0100, Dan Gendreau wrote:

>> (BD tune) I have noticed a significant amount of 60Hz hum 
>> getting into the
>> BD voice.

It is certainly true, as Colin Fraser says, that resonance on the 
BD can amp up residual hum to an alarming degree.
But, using ribbon cable for low level audio really is asking for 
shit to happen.
You will find by painful experiment that there are one or more 
lines there that ought to be sheilded. replace these with sheilded 
wire, one end of the sheild earthed.
I have been there and done that, though not on this particular machine.

paul perry melbourne australia




From matti at devo.com  Sat May 20 03:31:32 2000
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:31:32 -0500
Subject: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <200005192234.RAA23012@bunyip.flash.net>
References: <200005192234.RAA23012@bunyip.flash.net>
Message-ID: <958786292.3925eaf495d7b@whipit.devo.com>

Eh, maybe scrap the whole MIDI/CV controller idea, use a real, mostly intact 
guitar, run it through a beefed-up Roctave Divider type thing (and then an 
octave doubler on that?), dump the guitar's signal, and output just what comes 
out of the oscillators?

Or has everyone already come to that conclusion?



Quoting Scott Gravenhorst <chordman at flash.net>:

> Well, dang, thank you Don.  This is what I've been mulling for
> this thread; Don just nailed it so I'll do naught but simply
> agree.  Any guitar synth I've seen has precious little in terms
> of the controller aspect of expressivness necessary.  We're luck
> to get pitch bend per string with current units, let alone all
> of the harmonic controlling methods that guitarists use (as Don
> aptly notes) without even thinking about it.



From jlarryh at iquest.net  Sat May 20 03:32:34 2000
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:32:34 -0500
Subject: modular jack markers?
Message-ID: <200005200032.CAA10615@node12b53.a2000.nl>

Dan, I never found any colored markers.  But, I did have some success
getting the regular nylon "clear-like" washers and colored them with
permanent markers like a marks-a-lot or a sharpie.  The color seems to be
quite permanent.

Larry Hendry


----------
> From: Dan Gendreau <gendreau at rochester.rr.com>
> To: synthDIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Subject: modular jack markers?
> Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 4:05 PM
> 
> I am putting together the minimodular and thought it would be nice to
mark
> the inputs/outputs with different colors.
> 
> I seem to remember someone mentioning finding a source for colored
plastic
> washers to put on their jacks to serve this purpose. I am working with
1/8"
> jacks. Any suggestions welcome.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Dan G.
> 



From jlarryh at iquest.net  Sat May 20 03:51:24 2000
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:51:24 -0500
Subject: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
Message-ID: <200005200051.CAA10656@node12b53.a2000.nl>

Well, you would need a separate audio out from each string since the
dividers and such can only respond to one frequency at a time.  Send them a
chord, and they get totally confused.  Garbage in, garbage out.
But that is a thought, use the guitar signal to get a square wave (counter
and divider type things).  Then maybe some waveshaping.

Larry H

----------
> From: matti at devo.com
> To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: Re: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
> Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 8:31 PM
> 
> Eh, maybe scrap the whole MIDI/CV controller idea, use a real, mostly
intact 
> guitar, run it through a beefed-up Roctave Divider type thing (and then
an 
> octave doubler on that?), dump the guitar's signal, and output just what
comes 
> out of the oscillators?
> 
> Or has everyone already come to that conclusion?
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting Scott Gravenhorst <chordman at flash.net>:
> 
> > Well, dang, thank you Don.  This is what I've been mulling for
> > this thread; Don just nailed it so I'll do naught but simply
> > agree.  Any guitar synth I've seen has precious little in terms
> > of the controller aspect of expressivness necessary.  We're luck
> > to get pitch bend per string with current units, let alone all
> > of the harmonic controlling methods that guitarists use (as Don
> > aptly notes) without even thinking about it.



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat May 20 05:06:56 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:06:56 -0400
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <200005192156.OAA06901@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <39260150.1BF3F8EC@prodigy.net>

Hi Don (et al) comments inline...

Don Tillman wrote:

>    Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:02:17 -0400
>    From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>
>    You don't need to move the frets to get V/oct response... just an antilog
>    converter...  Guitars are already "expo" by nature...
>
> Harry, Harry, Harry...  It's I/x, not exponential.  *Imgine* what the
> fingerboard would look like if it were exponential!  :-)

(sound cue, calliope music)
"Harry, Harry, Harry.... step right up folks...."

If you *Imagine* what the fretboard would look like with only a single string,
at one fixed tension, and enough frets in a row to get the 2+ octave range of
the guitar... it would be exponential (but of course, inverse because the frets
get closer together instead of farther apart... I was not referring to the
string length vs resistance, but the relationship of pitch.
If you converted the period to voltage, and inverted (frequency is a 1/x
relationship) you could drive a standard V/Hz oscillator.  If you want V/oct at
this point you just need an antilog generator.

The "resistive string", "cut frets" etc... are all losers.

But (IMHO) I disagree with the "toy" designation.  First of all I INSISTED that
if it wasn't
a Guitar first, it didn't qualify as guitar synth.  And a LOT of people play
guitar who don't have the tons of technique to draw every sound from the
instrument. That of course doesn't make them masters... but they can be above
hacker range too. Keyboard synths are played by a lot of people who might not
have great expressive technique, but they make music within the limitations of
their command of the instrument.

No, most guitar synths do SUCK. That's not the manuufacturer's fault. Its
Physics. I demanded that it still be a Guitar, and working with that limitation,
they have done as best as they can.

If you have ever tried the Yamaha guitar controller, its really very expressive
and reasonable fast acting. Alas... its NOT a guitar. Nor is the Synth-axe,
Starr Guitar, etc.

"Playing a particular note not all that important?" Come on... :^)
Its of VITAL importance. You're right if you mean that it has become second
nature
and subconcious, allowing lots of time for other actions... (in my case its
usually thinking
about my tax refund check... and my vacation... and oh shit here comes the next
note....).

"How the note is played" might mean that the guitarist wants a flute doubling
his notes...
or an organ, or a string pad.  I DO !  What I DON'T WANT is to have that added
note
30mS late. So I think the thread is right on. I doubt anyone is going to
suddenly come up with some new magic bullet. But the problem is... pitch
detection is always going to be late.  Detecting the fret position does a lot to
help that. No you can't use finger vibrato
(but some of us are playing chords anyway...) or the vibrato bar (oops my guitar
is a "hardtail")... and bends ARE slow (again not a problem for rhythm
guitar...).

I got a Guitar Lesson (about 30 years ago). I was playing around a campfire,
with a guy who was just TERRIBLE !  He only knew three chords... and he'd play
any song anyone
wanted to hear with just those three chords. If the song required some other
chord... he
substitute one of the three he knew.  Drove me NUTS!  But (otoh) everyone at the
campfire LOVED him... because he could play ANY song they asked him to.  As a
music major, I knew he was wrong... but he wasn't even bluffing... he was
blissfully unaware that there was anything wrong... why should he be... the fans
loved him !!! Sh!t even my girlfriend was awed "Gee he knows SO MANY songs"
(I'll never forgive him THAT one...).

How does this apply to guitar synth?  Give me one.  You won't be able to play
it, because it won't respond properly to bends, or hammer ons, or harmonics, or
any other advanced
techniques. But I'll be able to play simple chords, etc... and the crowd will
love ME. You will KNOW I'm full of sh!t... (and no kidding I'll know too....)
But that won't make my guitar synth a "toy"

IMHO, the reason for having a Guitar Synthesizer is to use the fact that a
guitarist
KNOWS how to play a guitar and may NOT KNOW how to play a Keyboard
(Which you must admit is a terribly unresponsive interface also... but there are
some
keyboard players who negotiate its downfalls with amazing results...).

If any maunfacturer gets a guitar synth interface that tracks reasonable well,
and
has a delay of (oh pick a number) 3mS or less.... they will own the market. They
are not missing the point at all... If they can sell a guitar synth, they have a
market probably 100 times the size of the keyboard market. But they must sell
within the price expectations of the GUITAR market and that's dirt cheap. The
Siren call of the market lured ARP to its death on the rocks....

The "DIY" purpose is that we don't have to be limited to what a Roland thinks
they can sell... If we come up with some new technique... if anyone can break
the magic spell... we could have a lot of fun with this.

Ingo got me thinking... resistive strings.  How about the Gore "Elixir" strings
with the
polymer coating.... Why not a 'conductive coating'?  Someone else wants to put
separate frequencies superimposed on the string... How about NON conductive
frets, and the strings work like some kind of theremin antenna ???  Who knows.
Nothing wrong with some brainstorming (even if I doubt we will succeed...)
especially when the list has been slow anyway...

Remember... they said man would never fly....

H^)  harry


> ---------------
>
> I have a lot to say about the topic of guitar synths, many pages
> worth, and I'll probably post an article about it on my web site some
> time in the near future.  But for now... speaking as a guitarist,
> keyboard player, sythesist, electrical engineer, synth builder and
> music writer, I think this discussion is missing the point of a guitar
> synthesizer.  Just as I think all the current guitar synth
> manufacturers are missing the point.
>
> For a guitarist, playing a particular note is not all that important.
> All this work figuring out the note that's being fretted seems silly
> when the guitarist himself typically doesn't know what note he's
> playing.  What's important is how the note is played.
>
> A guitar is a remarkably expressive instrument.  I can play a note in
> a thousand different ways depending on pick position, pick angle, how
> tightly I hold the pick, pick thickness, tapping, pulling off,
> bending, reverse bending, use of harmonics, buzzes, palm muting, my
> own personal variation of palm muting, use of feedback, and so forth.
> Any guitar synth mechanism that can't go head-to-head with this sort
> of expressibility is going to be toy.
>
> What's needed is a way of transfering the guitarists natural modes of
> expression, or something reasonably close, to a synthesizer.
>
>   -- Don
>
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California, USA
> don at till.com
> http://www.till.com




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat May 20 05:37:02 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:37:02 -0400
Subject: Guitar synths (who listens to me???)
References: <200005200051.CAA10656@node12b53.a2000.nl>
Message-ID: <3926085E.10F47B37@prodigy.net>

WELL guys I remember back around last christmas telling EVERYONE to run out and
buy the G-Vox guitar to computer interface at Guitar Center for $49, and cut
off the hex pickup (save) and throw the rest away !!!  I did and thats my
solution to the "IM" distortion problem. As some have heard, I have a pretty
good bass synth going using this, low note priority, monophonic.

This IS one answer to the speed problem (and the one I currently favor). You
will not
get a regualr waveform at the fundamental... division is mandatory.  Boosting
the frequency will be harder... The problem here will be the sustain of the
synthesized sound will not exceed the normal sustain of the guitar.

DON'T say I didn't warn you to get a pickup when you could....

H^)

"J. Larry Hendry" wrote:

> Well, you would need a separate audio out from each string since the
> dividers and such can only respond to one frequency at a time.  Send them a
> chord, and they get totally confused.  Garbage in, garbage out.
> But that is a thought, use the guitar signal to get a square wave (counter
> and divider type things).  Then maybe some waveshaping.
>
> Larry H
>
> ----------
> > From: matti at devo.com
> > To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> > Subject: Re: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
> > Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 8:31 PM
> >
> > Eh, maybe scrap the whole MIDI/CV controller idea, use a real, mostly
> intact
> > guitar, run it through a beefed-up Roctave Divider type thing (and then
> an
> > octave doubler on that?), dump the guitar's signal, and output just what
> comes
> > out of the oscillators?
> >
> > Or has everyone already come to that conclusion?
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Scott Gravenhorst <chordman at flash.net>:
> >
> > > Well, dang, thank you Don.  This is what I've been mulling for
> > > this thread; Don just nailed it so I'll do naught but simply
> > > agree.  Any guitar synth I've seen has precious little in terms
> > > of the controller aspect of expressivness necessary.  We're luck
> > > to get pitch bend per string with current units, let alone all
> > > of the harmonic controlling methods that guitarists use (as Don
> > > aptly notes) without even thinking about it.




From don at till.com  Sat May 20 08:04:30 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:04:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <39260150.1BF3F8EC@prodigy.net> (message from Harry Bissell on
	Fri, 19 May 2000 23:06:56 -0400)
Message-ID: <200005200604.XAA07210@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:06:56 -0400
   From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>

   If you *Imagine* what the fretboard would look like with only a
   single string, at one fixed tension, and enough frets in a row to
   get the 2+ octave range of the guitar... it would be exponential
   (but of course, inverse because the frets get closer together
   instead of farther apart... I was not referring to the string
   length vs resistance, but the relationship of pitch.

On a guitar the fretted string length is proportional to 1/frequency.
And the electrical resistance of a resistive string is going to be
proportional to length.  Thus each time you go up an octave the
length, and resistance, halves.

Or are we talking about different things?

   No, most guitar synths do SUCK. That's not the manuufacturer's
   fault. Its Physics. I demanded that it still be a Guitar, and
   working with that limitation, they have done as best as they can.

Nope, the guitar synth manufacturers are tightly wedged in a bunch of
severely limiting preconceptions.  Just like most current keyboard
makers.

   "Playing a particular note not all that important?" Come on... :^) 
   Its of VITAL importance. 

I'm serious.  When you hear Miles Davis playing trumpet, are the
specific pitches he's playing the thing that sends shivvers up your
spine?  I doubt it.  

   What I DON'T WANT is to have that added note 30mS late. So I think
   the thread is right on. I doubt anyone is going to suddenly come up
   with some new magic bullet. But the problem is... pitch detection
   is always going to be late.  

[singing...]  No it's not...

Look at what Roland did with their original technology guitar synth.
I forget the name of it, but it's the one Pat Metheny uses.  It uses a
distorted guitar tone as the VCO signal until it figures out what note
you're playing and then it switches over to the real VCO.  That guitar
synth has 0 time delay.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Sat May 20 09:27:39 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 00:27:39 -0700
Subject: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <200005200051.CAA10656@node12b53.a2000.nl>
Message-ID: <002901bfc22c$e635d360$0100a8c0@homenet>

The cool stuff...
I don't know what sort of processing the gr-1 and it's sibling use but
everything works. I just stuck the gk-2 on a old van-halen model
strat. Pull-offs, hammer-ons, bends, trem-bar (all 6 strings at once),
bla bla bla.... It all works..I can even play slide! Some of the cooler
stuff is splitting the strings into instruments (one for each string) or 
instrument groups (say bass on the 6,5,4 and moog-lead on 3,2,1).
What it's really good for is playing soft string pads behind gently
played cords....just beautiful... and bass of course..

The bad stuff...
Used with it's own internal sounds or sequencer it's fine. Used with 
external units it's slow, not unusable but slow.   It's not as smooth 
as I would like. The resolution zippering can be very obvious 
when bending a note or using the bar jumping too many notes trying
to catch up, slide does not really slide...but hey these are minor 
complaints. The thing works and all (mostly) of the guitar tricks 
work.

The conclusion....
After owning a guitar synth that works for about 5 years now I
can say without hesitation that my dreams of using it as a midi
controller are pretty much dashed. I thought I wouldn't play
the keyboard nearly as much....well...because I am (was?) a 
better guitar player. This was wrong. I play keyboards even 
more. Frankly it doesn't sound right played on guitar. Hey! one
of the fun things is triggering drums from guitar but it's just for
fun. If I'm recording a song I use a keyboard.

So what's it good for?
It's great for controlling it's own sounds live. You want to 
play that Yes solo from "owner of a lonely heart", a Styx
style OB lead or accompany yourself with grand piano
or bass. This works.

Is it worth it?
When I bought it, I thought so...If I was in a guitar band
It would be great for covering keyboard parts. There
have been lot's of times I wished for one. 

I don't know of a DIY path to something like this. To get
all of the nuances from a 6 pole pickup probably requires
many processors and tons of code.

Tom












From don at till.com  Sat May 20 09:28:47 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 00:28:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <958786292.3925eaf495d7b@whipit.devo.com> (matti@devo.com)
Message-ID: <200005200728.AAA25502@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: matti at devo.com
   Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:31:32 -0500

   Eh, maybe scrap the whole MIDI/CV controller idea, use a real,
   mostly intact guitar, run it through a beefed-up Roctave Divider
   type thing (and then an octave doubler on that?), dump the guitar's
   signal, and output just what comes out of the oscillators?

   Or has everyone already come to that conclusion?

Well first of all, dump MIDI.  MIDI just isn't appropriate for this
sort of thing.  The guitar and the VCO need to be closer.

One approach is the early Roland technique I mentioned.

Another approach is an oscillator that tries to sync to a guitar
input.  

The oscillator can have multiple inputs and take advantage of phase
and amplitude differences between the pickups.

Multiple oscillators can have different approaches to syncing.

Then hitting a string at an angle might run one oscillator at pitch
and the other oscillator an octave up.  Now you've got some
expression.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From chordman at flash.net  Sat May 20 09:22:52 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 09:22:52
Subject: Guitar synths
Message-ID: <200005201628.LAA20619@chupacabras.flash.net>

Another interesting technique is the way the Roland GR-50 works.

When a string is plucked, the synth electronics measures the rise time
of the first quarter of a cycle.  This value is used to set the pitch
of the attack portion of the note which is initiated at that time, which
is only one quarter of a cycle late.  The attack pitch is often not exact, 
but within a full tone usually.  A frequency counter of sorts is also 
monitoring the string.  Once the freq counter stabilizes, the synth pitch 
is adjusted to accurately match that of the vibrating string.  This 
usually occurs before the attack portion is finished.  
So this technique is nearly immediate, and since the pitch error occurs
during and is corrected during the attack phase, it is pretty well masked,
especially if a percussive attack sound is used.

For a guitar that is strung normally, string 6 has audible MIDI delay.
This can be reduced by using a nonstandard stringing.  I use strings
that are 1/2 the normal diameter for strings 5 and 6, and I tune those
up an octave.  This preserves the fingering and improves the synth's
response time for both MIDI and the internal sounds.  It actually sounds
pretty cool tuned like this.  However, like other's have noted, using
this instrument to drive external sound modules is not very good unless
a slow attack pad-like sound is used along with the natural sound of the
guitar.  The fact that the GR-50 is really a D-110 means that those
pads are already available as internal sounds, so using MIDI really
isn't worth it.

Don T. mentioned another Roland g-synth that uses a distorted version of
the vibrating string as the attack sound and then switches over to
a VCO once it has "found" the correct pitch.  PLLs might be cool to
use here, since they can multiply frequency.  

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From t.hogers at home.nl  Sat May 20 11:43:53 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 11:43:53 +0200
Subject: Matador
References: <freemail.1000419093751.67931@fm6.freemail.hu> <000d01bfc1c6$dc8a4dc0$0400a8c0@Theo> <004601bfc1eb$4214d4c0$133f363e@jhaible>
Message-ID: <000f01bfc23f$e97d62a0$0400a8c0@Theo>

The 12/24 is one and the same, depents on how many voice-chips you had
installed.

Think we agree on the horror side...,
mine lasted for less than a week before I returned it to the shop.
The 12/24 ran in constand midi (sysex) conflicts with my DX. :-((

Cheers Theo.



----- Original Message -----
From: jhaible <jhaible at debitel.net>
To: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>; <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: Matador


> > The company had its 5 minutes of fame with the B?hm 12/24 expander.
> > A 12 or 24 voice four operator PhM (FM) synth module, came around short
> > after the DX7.
>
> I used to own one of these B?hm PM modules (don't remember which one),
> and got rid of it as soon as I could. I thought it was plain horrible.
>
> But I still have one Dr. B?hm device, the Phasing Rotor 78. Excellent
> analogue Ensemble effect unit. Available as an expansion module for
> some of their organs, and also as stand alone version. Must be quite
> rare - if you ever find one, grab it.
>
> JH.
>





From t.hogers at home.nl  Sat May 20 12:18:45 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:18:45 +0200
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <200005200604.XAA07210@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <002d01bfc244$c7f5c280$0400a8c0@Theo>

Inline

>
> I'm serious.  When you hear Miles Davis playing trumpet, are the
> specific pitches he's playing the thing that sends shivvers up your
> spine?  I doubt it.
>
Is it only the expressoin in the tones? I doubt that too.
Melodie and pitch are a importand part of the expression.
For the time being the first problem is to get the piches right.
I can think of al kind of  expression controllers that can be applied
afterwards.
(including things like driver position and so on)


> Look at what Roland did with their original technology guitar synth.
> I forget the name of it, but it's the one Pat Metheny uses.  It uses a
> distorted guitar tone as the VCO signal until it figures out what note
> you're playing and then it switches over to the real VCO.  That guitar
> synth has 0 time delay.
>
>   -- Don
>
This will not work with midi.

Cheers Theo






From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat May 20 13:47:14 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 13:47:14 +0200
Subject: Matador
References: <freemail.1000419093751.67931@fm6.freemail.hu> <000d01bfc1c6$dc8a4dc0$0400a8c0@Theo> <004601bfc1eb$4214d4c0$133f363e@jhaible> <000f01bfc23f$e97d62a0$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <002401bfc25a$045b4a00$ce3e363e@jhaible>


> The 12/24 is one and the same, depents on how many voice-chips you had
> installed.

I was aware of that, but they also had a different (smaller ?) box called
something like "Dynamic 4x9".

JH.





From pwd at redhotant.com  Sat May 20 15:36:59 2000
From: pwd at redhotant.com (paul darlow)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:36:59 +0100
Subject: Molex connectors for OB SEM-1?
References: <p04310102b548e0f32370@[63.25.40.144]>
Message-ID: <392694FA.6A540B20@redhotant.com>

hi Terry
            if you get the right molex connectors could you let me no the
order code and price as I dont have enuff to finish patching out my sem
paul darlow


KA4HJH wrote:

> I'm ordering the molex connectors to patch out my SEM-1's. I think
> I've figured out the proper plug, but just to be safe I downloaded
> the datasheet from molex. I should say TRIED to d/l; iCab kept giving
> me errors, Anarchie got the file but it's messed up. Acrobat Exchange
> says it's damaged, MacGSview gives two errors and refuses to render.
> Of course the other pdf (a mere sales flyer) renders fine.
>
> The flyer was done on a Mac, the datasheet on an NT box. Coincidence?
>
> I really don't care. I'd just like to confirm that I have the right part!
>
> And yes, if/when I get this rigged up I WILL post pictures, info,
> etc. I'm in the process of scanning the manuals now.
>
> Now does Digi-key have the gold-plated pins?...  8^)
>
> --
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"




From psnow at magma.ca  Sat May 20 16:26:08 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:26:08 -0400
Subject: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <200005200051.CAA10656@node12b53.a2000.nl> <002901bfc22c$e635d360$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <3926A080.FD10E261@magma.ca>


These guitar synths have limitations, but we tend to use them for what
they are good at and avoid what they are not good at.  Sounds obvious,
but when I first got my Ibanez XIMG (used, bargain) I tried to play it
just like a guitar despite all the warnings to the contrary - it's just
natural to do that if you are a guitar player.  That particular model
being at least one generation older than the current technology,
suffered from an annoying delay in pitch detection. However I soon
learned to use it for background string patches with relatively slow
attacks so the delay was not a factor anymore.  Same for any sound with
slow attacks.  This is important for me, not being a keyboard player. 
The only way I can get chords on a synth is through the guitar
controller.

The other "trick" I used was similar to what Don was saying about the
early Roland synths (GR-300) though I did not know that until now.  I
use the balance control on the guitar to allow the natural sound through
(clean or dist) and then roll-in some of the synth sound.  Then when I
play a note the real guitar sound comes in immediately and the synth
sound thickens it up nicely. Also covers up the occasional glitching.
It's not perfect, but it's better than (not) hearing that delay. It's a
compromise but I think these things will always be a compromise, using
the current technology. 

To my mind the big factor is price - how much do you want to pay for a
technology that is lacking? In the used market, these things become more
interesting.

Cheers,

Peter


tomg wrote:
> 
> The cool stuff...
> I don't know what sort of processing the gr-1 and it's sibling use but
> everything works. I just stuck the gk-2 on a old van-halen model
> strat. Pull-offs, hammer-ons, bends, trem-bar (all 6 strings at once),
> bla bla bla.... It all works..I can even play slide! Some of the cooler
> stuff is splitting the strings into instruments (one for each string) or
> instrument groups (say bass on the 6,5,4 and moog-lead on 3,2,1).
> What it's really good for is playing soft string pads behind gently
> played cords....just beautiful... and bass of course..
> 
> The bad stuff...
> Used with it's own internal sounds or sequencer it's fine. Used with
> external units it's slow, not unusable but slow.   It's not as smooth
> as I would like. The resolution zippering can be very obvious
> when bending a note or using the bar jumping too many notes trying
> to catch up, slide does not really slide...but hey these are minor
> complaints. The thing works and all (mostly) of the guitar tricks
> work.
> 
> The conclusion....
> After owning a guitar synth that works for about 5 years now I
> can say without hesitation that my dreams of using it as a midi
> controller are pretty much dashed. I thought I wouldn't play
> the keyboard nearly as much....well...because I am (was?) a
> better guitar player. This was wrong. I play keyboards even
> more. Frankly it doesn't sound right played on guitar. Hey! one
> of the fun things is triggering drums from guitar but it's just for
> fun. If I'm recording a song I use a keyboard.
> 
> So what's it good for?
> It's great for controlling it's own sounds live. You want to
> play that Yes solo from "owner of a lonely heart", a Styx
> style OB lead or accompany yourself with grand piano
> or bass. This works.
> 
> Is it worth it?
> When I bought it, I thought so...If I was in a guitar band
> It would be great for covering keyboard parts. There
> have been lot's of times I wished for one.
> 
> I don't know of a DIY path to something like this. To get
> all of the nuances from a 6 pole pickup probably requires
> many processors and tons of code.
> 
> Tom



From don at till.com  Sat May 20 17:39:55 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:39:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <39260150.1BF3F8EC@prodigy.net> (message from Harry Bissell on
	Fri, 19 May 2000 23:06:56 -0400)
Message-ID: <200005201539.IAA24111@shell9.ba.best.com>

Harry's post was pretty, and I found some other stuff to comment on...

   Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:06:56 -0400
   From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>

   But (IMHO) I disagree with the "toy" designation.  First of all I
   INSISTED that if it wasn't a Guitar first, it didn't qualify as
   guitar synth.  And a LOT of people play guitar who don't have the
   tons of technique to draw every sound from the instrument. That of
   course doesn't make them masters... but they can be above hacker
   range too. Keyboard synths are played by a lot of people who might
   not have great expressive technique, but they make music within the
   limitations of their command of the instrument.

Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting, but this is an "ivory tower"
argument, right?

I disagree.  The everyman guitar player appreciates expressiveness
every bit as much as Fripp, Metheny, Hackett or Howe.  It allows him
to hear his own personality in his playing, his voice.  It's the
inspiration that draws the guitarist to their instrument and to be a
better player.

Also the guitar requires two hands to operate, leaving no hands left
over to work the controls, switches and patch cords.  You need to
compensate somehow.

Besides if you really don't want an expressive instrument, you have a
lot to choose from in the current market.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From debus at cityweb.de  Sat May 20 17:43:51 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:43:51 +0200
Subject: Matador
References: <freemail.1000419093751.67931@fm6.freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <3926B2B7.42D8FEC2@cityweb.de>



Ingrad Baman wrote:
> There's just only one output for the sound (DIN). Inside I see a place
> seems for a changeable power supply (accumulator?).
> 
> I've made some photos to help recognize this stuff.

Weird. I've never seen a 5-octave keyboard starting with F. Or are the
pictures mirror-imaged?

Could this be an electric piano with mechanical tone generation? Since
it's battery-powered, perhaps the only electronics in it is a pre-amplifier?
Sorry, I know some old stuff from Dr. B?hm (my first synth's keyboard
was from them, they sold their keyboards separately) but I've never seen
that thing.

Ingo




From don at till.com  Sat May 20 17:57:52 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:57:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <002d01bfc244$c7f5c280$0400a8c0@Theo> (t.hogers@home.nl)
Message-ID: <200005201557.IAA28242@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: "Theo" <t.hogers at home.nl>
   Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:18:45 +0200

   > I'm serious.  When you hear Miles Davis playing trumpet, are the
   > specific pitches he's playing the thing that sends shivvers up your
   > spine?  I doubt it.
   >

   Is it only the expressoin in the tones? I doubt that too.
   Melodie and pitch are a importand part of the expression.

Sure, having no control over pitch would be a mighty laughable
situation.  

But if Miles is playing, maybe just one note, you can tell it's him no
matter what note he's playing.  Same with Stevie Wonder playing
harmonica.  This is important.

What if the guitar synth doesn't get pitch accurately?  Well, a
guitarist might not get pitch accurately either.  If the guitar synth
missed the pitch in a musically useful way things would still be
fine.  That's the trick.

   > Look at what Roland did with their original technology guitar
   > synth. 

   This will not work with midi.

Right.  MIDI is completely inappropriate for guitar for about a dozen
serious reasons.  It's also completely inappropriate for voice,
harmonica, sax, and a lot of other instruments for similiar reasons.
MIDI was designed for a small set of keyboard operations and little
else.  I think it's important to keep MIDI in perspective.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From don at till.com  Sat May 20 17:59:29 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:59:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <200005201539.IAA24111@shell9.ba.best.com> (message from Don
	Tillman on Sat, 20 May 2000 08:39:55 -0700 (PDT))
Message-ID: <200005201559.IAA28596@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:39:55 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Don Tillman <don at till.com>

   Harry's post was pretty, and I found some other stuff to comment
   on... 

Harry's post was pretty LONG, and I found some other stuff to comment
on... 

Sorry.  Gotta proofread better.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From grichter at execpc.com  Sat May 20 18:59:25 2000
From: grichter at execpc.com (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 11:59:25 -0500
Subject: modular jack markers?
Message-ID: <200005201659.LAA31904@mailgw01.execpc.com>

You can take the rings and spraypaint them.
You need to mount them on scrap jacks to keep the paint off the threads
on the inside of the ring.

You can also paint them by hand with fingernail polish
(in many wonderful colors and can usually be stolen from
wife/girlfriend) keeping the paint off of the threads
also applies.

----------
>From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh at iquest.net>
>To: "synthDIY" <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: Re: modular jack markers?
>Date: Fri, May 19, 2000, 8:32 PM
>

> Dan, I never found any colored markers.  But, I did have some success
> getting the regular nylon "clear-like" washers and colored them with
> permanent markers like a marks-a-lot or a sharpie.  The color seems to be
> quite permanent.
>
> Larry Hendry
>
>
> ----------
>> From: Dan Gendreau <gendreau at rochester.rr.com>
>> To: synthDIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>> Subject: modular jack markers?
>> Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 4:05 PM
>>
>> I am putting together the minimodular and thought it would be nice to
> mark
>> the inputs/outputs with different colors.
>>
>> I seem to remember someone mentioning finding a source for colored
> plastic
>> washers to put on their jacks to serve this purpose. I am working with
> 1/8"
>> jacks. Any suggestions welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Dan G.
>>
> 



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sat May 20 22:31:02 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:31:02 EDT
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
Message-ID: <4c.5b9e8fc.26585006@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/20/00 8:00:22 AM, you wrote:

<<MIDI is completely inappropriate for guitar for about a dozen
serious reasons.  It's also completely inappropriate for voice,
harmonica, sax, and a lot of other instruments for similiar reasons.
MIDI was designed for a small set of keyboard operations and little
else.  I think it's important to keep MIDI in perspective.>>

Even more to the point, here's something else to keep in perspective:  The 
guitar, simply by its own very nature, is already an almost infinitely more 
expressive instrument than the most expressive synthesizer out there.  Also, 
quite ironically, the acoustic guitar is, in many respects, more expressive 
than the electric guitar.  I'm not talking about the guitar's overall tonal 
possibilities - indeed, the synthesizer player has a much wider palette of 
unique sounds to choose from.  Rather, I am speaking about the guitar's 
ability to respond tonally to gestural input on the part of the player, 
within its naturally generated tonal voice.  Those of you who don't play 
guitar (or those whose don't play guitar very well) may not yet agree with or 
understand this, but those who have mastered some semblance of guitar 
technique will certainly agree.

That being said, here we have a situation where we've got a bunch of 
guitarists who wish their guitar synths could approach the expressiveness 
that they get from a normal guitar... Well, it's just not going to happen.  
Keyboard players don't even get that kind of expressiveness, baby!

BTW, in my opinion, the Roland GR-300 is (still) the king of all guitar 
synths, both in terms of response time and in gestural response (although it 
does have a fairly limited range of synthetic tone possibilities).  Unlike 
any of the others so far introduced, it even will respond (to a certain 
degree) to changes in pick position and angle.  However, I'd still like to 
figure out a way to get it to respond even better to gestural changes.  

One solution might be to run each string output into something like a bank of 
specially-tuned bandpass filters/detectors (sort of like a vocoder filter 
bank), then use the output of the detectors in some way(s) to control the 
synth's tone (not using the filters to filter audio, but using the detectors 
as control sources).  This detector bank would be used mainly to respond to 
attck gestures.  You'd probably also need to sample and hold the detector 
outputs at the time of each new note, to keep the detectors from trying 
follow the note's naturally decaying envelope.  Of course, you should 
probably ALSO have an envelope follower working in parallel with this system, 
but it wouldn't need to be frequency-selective like the attack gesture 
detector.  

This attack gesture detection system would run in parallel with the guitar 
synth's normal pitch-to-voltage (or pitch-to-MIDI) conversion system.  One 
might be able to experiment with this idea by using a regular vocoder, but to 
really work well, the bandpass filters would probably need to have their 
frequencies spaced more closely, with each filter having very narrow 
bandwidth.  Furthermore, the overall frequency range of the filter/detector 
bank would need to slide up and down with respect to the fundamental note 
that the player is currently playing.  This would guarantee reasonably 
uniform response up and down the fretboard.  You'd probably need somewhere 
around four to six octaves worth of filters to get it to reasonably respond 
to the typical range of guitarist gestures, all the way from gently playing 
with the "meat" of your bare fingers, to scraping the string with the edge of 
a very sharp guitar pick held at an oblique angle.  The filters would 
probably need to be spaced no more than 1/2 octave apart, and again, the 
frequency response of the entire bank would  need to slide up and down, 
relative to the current note.

Oh yeah - and you'd have to have a separate bank for each string.  Sounds 
like a nice weekend project, eh?

Of course, this still wouldn't come close to truly interpreting ALL of a 
guitarist's possible tone-influencing gestures, but it might be a start.

Michael Bacich

PS - As may already be apparent, I haven't really thought this 
filter/detector idea out completely.  For instance, I'm not quite sure how 
the individual filter/detector outputs (within one "string bank") would be 
combined for proper utilization.  Maybe some of you have some further 
thoughts on this?



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sat May 20 22:52:38 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:52:38 EDT
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
Message-ID: <de.538749f.26585516@aol.com>

In my previous message, I wrote:

<< The guitar, simply by its own very nature, is already an almost 
infinitely more expressive instrument than the most expressive 
synthesizer out there.  >>

Just to clarify, I meant "the most expressive *keyboard* synthesizer out 
there".  I'm not referring to a synthesizer's overall tone palette, but to 
the keyboard's expressive possibilities as a real-time controller.  Velocity 
and aftertouch simply pale in comparison to the guitarist's bag of available 
expressive tools.

Michael Bacich



From matti at devo.com  Sun May 21 01:01:30 2000
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:01:30 -0500
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <200005201539.IAA24111@shell9.ba.best.com>
References: <200005201539.IAA24111@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <958863690.3927194a26ffd@whipit.devo.com>

Feet.


Quoting Don Tillman <don at till.com>:

> Also the guitar requires two hands to operate, leaving no hands left
> over to work the controls, switches and patch cords.  You need to
> compensate somehow.





From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sun May 21 03:35:05 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:35:05 EDT
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
Message-ID: <77.45bd49b.26589749@aol.com>

matti at devo.com wrote:

<< Don T. mentioned another Roland g-synth that uses a 
distorted version of the vibrating string as the attack 
sound and then switches over to a VCO once it has "found" 
the correct pitch.  >>

For some reason, I can't seem to find the original message of Don's from 
which this was paraphrased.  I hope I didn't carelessly delete it - I'm 
really enjoying this thread, and I'm always interested in Don Tillman's 
thoughtful posts.  However, it should be noted that the Roland GR-300 floor 
module doesn't quite work exactly that way.  It does indeed use a distorted 
and lowpass filtered version of the guitar's string output to analyze for 
pitch-to-period conversion, but it doesn't put that distorted string sound 
into the audio path either before or after the VCO has settled on a stable 
pitch.  

When you strike a note on the GR-300, unless you intentionally mix some 
straight or hex-fuzzed guitar into the output, the sound you hear is 
generated by the VCO, period.  The VCO's generate something close to a regular
 sawtooth wave, whereas the hex fuzz puts out a more spiky/squareish 
waveform.  There are actually two VCO's, one of them using the guitar 
string's period to start and reset a linear ramp generator, and the other one 
using a voltage derived from the peak amplitude of that linear ramp as a 
pitch-to-voltage converter to drive the other VCO, also a linear ramp 
generator.  Both VCO's, as well as the hex fuzz signal, feed into the same 
Mixer>VCF>VCA, so you hear them all attack at the same time.  If you enable 
both VCO's and the hex fuzz, you're actually getting three sound sources per 
note (although the hex fuzz signal and VCO #1 are necessarily locked in phase 
with each other, so it can't ever sound like three free-running VCO's).

Furthermore, the aforementioned hex-fuzzed signal is not the same signal as 
the distorted string signal that the GR-300 internally analyzes for pitch 
conversion.  The hex-fuzzed signal is actually generated at the guitar, not 
the in GR-300 module, and it completely bypasses the GR's pitch conversion 
circuits, going straight to the filter, VCA, and output.  The GR-300's 
minimum attack time is internally pre-set to a slight ramp, to compensate for 
the slight latency of the VCO circuitry, so even if you're using both hex 
fuzz and VCO's into the filter, you hear both of them attack at the same 
time.  This might be what Don was referring to as the "distorted version of 
the vibrating string as the attack sound...then switches over to the VCO".  
I'm sorry if I'm sounding nit-picky here, but I hope my description shows the 
distinction and clarifies his comment a bit.

BTW, the only guitar controllers that Roland made that had the built-in hex 
fuzz circuitry were the G808 and G303 (the two that we've seen Pat Metheny 
playing).  All of the other models (G202, G505, and G707) did not have the 
additional hex fuzz stuff, just the (undistorted) six-way pickup signal and 
straight mono guitar output.

Nevertheless, Don is quite correct that the GR-300 system has essentially 
zero delay (taking into consideration its slight attack ramp in its VCA/VCF 
envelope).  If you ever get the chance, try one sometime.  You'll be amazed 
at how much it's like playing a "normal" guitar, especially if you've been 
beating yourself up playing any of the modern-day MIDI guitar synths.  It's 
no wonder that Pat Metheny, one of the truly great musical geniuses of our 
time (and a very savvy and demanding techno-nerd), still uses it on every 
recording and in every concert.  If you've ever seen him play his orgasmic 
masterpiece "Are You Going With Me?" on that axe, you know just how 
emotionally expressive and incredibly musical a guitar synthesizer can be.  
(In the right hands!)

Michael Bacich

P.S. - I would be interested in discussing the GR-300 with any other list 
members who have one, or are interested in them.  Besides my previous 
ruminations on increasing its gestural picking response, I have this crazy 
idea of trying to use the GR-300's internal pitch-to-voltage circuitry to 
drive the VCO's in a Korg Poly 61 or PolySix (since both of those six-voice 
synths have Korg's unusually stable linear VCO's, which need no temperature 
compensation, and which might mate well with the GR's already accurate 
Hz-Volt pitch CV output).  This, hopefully, would increase the GR's limited 
sonic palette, and also give it access to programmability for live use.  
Anyone who has thoughts on this is encouraged to reply, either privately or 
to the list.    - MJB



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sun May 21 03:56:13 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:56:13 EDT
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
Message-ID: <6b.486beac.26589c3d@aol.com>

matti at devo.com wrote:

<< Feet. >>

Yeah, and look what those battalions of guitarist's feet have given us over 
the last 40 years:  An endless parade of sullen, skinny, dull-eyed, 
long-and-scraggly-haired "musicians" interminably making with the 
"wah-wah-wah-wah", almost invariably opening and closing their mouths in sync 
with the masturbatory motion of their smelly sneakers upon the Crybaby, like 
so many stoned aquarium fish, Jimi Hendrix notwithstanding (God rest his 
soul).

Mike B.



From psnow at magma.ca  Sun May 21 06:03:08 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:03:08 -0400
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <77.45bd49b.26589749@aol.com>
Message-ID: <39275FFC.76FF96D0@magma.ca>

Michael,

> The hex-fuzzed signal is actually generated at the guitar, not
> the in GR-300 module, and it completely bypasses the GR's pitch conversion
> circuits, going straight to the filter, VCA, and output. 

Well, you learn something everyday. I also have a GR-300 in addition to
the Ibanex XIMG (and MIDI brain) mentioned in my earlier post.  As the
XIMG uses the same cable and connectors as the Roland guitar, I saw no
reason to buy the guitar or even the Roland hex pickup.  After playing
with the Ibanez/GR-300 combination for a while, I could not understand
why I did not seem to get the hex fuzz that was mentioned in articles on
the GR-300.  

I believe 2 of the parameters for the synth were controlled by touch
switches on the Roland guitar - one of them to turn the hex-fuzz on and
off.  I assumed that the Ibanez simply did not have these switches as it
was not built for the GR-300 and thus could not control the hex fuzz.  I
was going to try to figure out a way to add a switch on the GR-300
itself to enable the hex-fuzz.  But now I know I would have been wasting
my time. It ain't there! It's on the Roland guitar, not in the GR-300. 
Thanks Michael!

BTW, you mention a VCA in the GR-300.  Is this controllable in any way,
or is it simply linked to an envelope of the guitars natural decay?
There appears to be no controls for this anywhere.  It would be nice to
have a controllable attack for those "backwards" sounds.  

Cheers,

Peter



From matti at devo.com  Sun May 21 09:09:06 2000
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 02:09:06 -0500
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant) is: everyone's rant
In-Reply-To: <6b.486beac.26589c3d@aol.com>
References: <6b.486beac.26589c3d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <958892946.39278b9204ef4@whipit.devo.com>

Eh, but what about, say, Bach? He managed to do quite a lot with _his_ feet. 
Also, having but one instrument with but one parameter to control with one's 
feet simply does not help at all. That aside, I'm thinking that a few stomp-able 
buttons and wah-style-whatever-the-variable-resistors-are-called arried on the 
floor about one's feet would very much alow a great deal of expression. 

That aside, has anyone any schematics for frequency-_doublers_? Blacet and paia 
offer their octave dividers, but that still leaves one an octagve below what one 
is playing. 



Matti (wondering why his 555's suddenly up and stopped working)

Quoting WeAreAs1 at aol.com:

> Yeah, and look what those battalions of guitarist's feet have given us
> over
> the last 40 years:  An endless parade of sullen, skinny, dull-eyed,
> long-and-scraggly-haired "musicians" interminably making with the
> "wah-wah-wah-wah", almost invariably opening and closing their mouths in
> sync
> with the masturbatory motion of their smelly sneakers upon the Crybaby,
> like
> so many stoned aquarium fish, Jimi Hendrix notwithstanding (God rest his
> soul).
> 
> Mike B.
> 



From don at till.com  Sun May 21 10:34:34 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <77.45bd49b.26589749@aol.com> (WeAreAs1@aol.com)
Message-ID: <200005210834.BAA28875@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com
   Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:35:05 EDT

   For some reason, I can't seem to find the original message of Don's
   from which this was paraphrased.  I hope I didn't carelessly delete
   it - I'm really enjoying this thread, and I'm always interested in
   Don Tillman's thoughtful posts.  

Gosh, thanks.

   However, it should be noted that the Roland GR-300 floor module
   doesn't quite work exactly that way.  It does indeed use a
   distorted and lowpass filtered version of the guitar's string
   output to analyze for pitch-to-period conversion, but it doesn't
   put that distorted string sound into the audio path either before
   or after the VCO has settled on a stable pitch.  

My understanding of the GR300 is limited.  Thanks for supplying the
details.  

   Nevertheless, Don is quite correct that the GR-300 system has
   essentially zero delay (taking into consideration its slight attack
   ramp in its VCA/VCF envelope).  If you ever get the chance, try one
   sometime.  You'll be amazed at how much it's like playing a
   "normal" guitar, especially if you've been beating yourself up
   playing any of the modern-day MIDI guitar synths.  It's no wonder
   that Pat Metheny, one of the truly great musical geniuses of our  
   time (and a very savvy and demanding techno-nerd), still uses it on
   every recording and in every concert.  If you've ever seen him play
   his orgasmic masterpiece "Are You Going With Me?" on that axe, you
   know just how emotionally expressive and incredibly musical a
   guitar synthesizer can be.   

I'll say.  This is where Pat Metheny takes a guitar synth and stands
up and testifies.  It's scary when a musical performance can control
your breathing.

(Everyone else, the album is called "Offramp".  It's great.)

I think those of us looking to build a better guitar synth should
think of the GR300 as a reference.  Do something that's even better
than this.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sun May 21 11:27:04 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 05:27:04 EDT
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
Message-ID: <3f.50b9ddd.265905e8@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/21/00 12:34:48 AM, you wrote:

<<I think those of us looking to build a better guitar synth should
think of the GR300 as a reference.  Do something that's even better
than this.>>

If only Roland would consider this advice...




From hhelland at mailandnews.com  Sun May 21 11:55:28 2000
From: hhelland at mailandnews.com (Hallgeir Helland)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:55:28 +0200
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <200005210834.BAA28875@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <3927B290.A6222EC0@mailandnews.com>

Hi all,

I've been reading this thread and it's quite interesting.

FWIW: the AXON guitar -> MIDI seems quite nice.
I just recieved a demo video of it, and I am impressed.
It uses neural net technology to recognize the attack
of the signal, so the tracking delay is minimal.
It even recognizes the picking position - you
can for example choose three different sounds
just by varying the picking position.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bluechipmusic

I'd really like to have one!
Hallgeir
-- 
HELLAND MUSIKK TEKNOLOGI
-=  Hallgeir Helland  =-
hhelland at mailandnews.com





From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Sun May 21 11:59:35 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:59:35 +0100
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <6b.486beac.26589c3d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000601bfc31f$e47f1740$b555883e@default>

>... "wah-wah-wah-wah", almost invariably opening and closing their
mouths in sync with the masturbatory motion of their smelly sneakers
upon the Crybaby, like so many stoned aquarium fish.

Uh-oh... I'm guilty and I haven't got a wah pedal! Just a bank of LFOs
driving my filters on my synths, and I hate to think what I look like
when I use the pitch bend lever or the aftertouch driving VCO2 which is
synced to VCO1.

And when you open a filter up on the TB3030... :-)

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm







From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sun May 21 12:21:08 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 06:21:08 EDT
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
Message-ID: <b9.338d8e9.26591294@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/20/00 8:02:35 PM, you wrote:

<<BTW, you mention a VCA in the GR-300.  Is this controllable in any way,
or is it simply linked to an envelope of the guitars natural decay?
There appears to be no controls for this anywhere.  It would be nice to
have a controllable attack for those "backwards" sounds.>>

Hello Paul,

I'll have to look again at the schematics to be sure, but I'm pretty sure 
there are six very simple FET-based VCA's (one for each string), that then 
feed into one common VCF.  These would be the ones you'd want to gain access 
to for the backwards sounds.  They are indeed controlled by the guitar's 
natural envelope.  Alternatively, you could insert another set of VCA's just 
after the FET's to do envelope effects (I would use LM13700's - you'd need 
three of them).  The GR-300 also has another VCA (based on a photocoupler) at 
the output section which is just there for master volume control.  The 
balance knob on your guitar is wired directly to this VCA.  I'm pretty sure 
that if you plug in a volume pedal, it gets routed to this VCA.  Now that I'm 
thinking about it, I remember that there's also another photocoupler VCA for 
the straight guitar signal, as well. (both are controlled by the guitar's 
volume and balance knobs, and are not affected by your picking intensity or 
the note's envelope)

The very rare GR-33B bass synth from the same era used the same technology, 
and it had both attack and decay knobs, unlike the GR-300's decay-only setup. 
 I guess they figured the funk bass players would want to use it to make 
those "duck quack" funk synth bass lines, a la Mutron III.  It would be 
fairly easy to adapt the attack envelope portion of the GR-33's circuitry to 
the GR-300.  I'm pretty sure the GR-33B attack/decay envelope was monophonic 
(not a separate envelope for each string), and it was manily for controlling 
the filter, not the VCA.

The G-808's two touch switches were simply there to turn the GR-300's LFO 
modulation on and off (one switch had a latching on/off alternating action; th
e other was on while you touched it, off when you took your finger away).  If 
your Ibanez doesn't have a modulation on/off switch, you may have never even 
heard the GR-300's LFO in action.  Definitely a useful tool.  You wouldn't 
need the touch switches on the guitar - you could always make a footswitch to 
control it. (personally, I find the touch switches kind of awkward to use)

BTW, you could always build a hex fuzz into your Ibanez, or into the body of 
the GR-300 module.  Seven opamps, twelve diodes, and handful of resistors is 
all it would take.

Michael Bacich



From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun May 21 19:57:09 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 19:57:09 +0200
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <200005210834.BAA28875@shell9.ba.best.com> <3927B290.A6222EC0@mailandnews.com>
Message-ID: <003a01bfc34d$fd3e9b60$0400a8c0@Theo>

Now that's a nice guitarsynt.
This neuro-net thing is surly going places.
Still the delay is around 12 to 13 ms, what is way to long. :-(
A faster processor may help or a more optimised neuro engiene.
Now who's going to DIY this one???

Cheers Theo.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Hallgeir Helland <hhelland at mailandnews.com>
To: DIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been reading this thread and it's quite interesting.
> 
> FWIW: the AXON guitar -> MIDI seems quite nice.
> I just recieved a demo video of it, and I am impressed.
> It uses neural net technology to recognize the attack
> of the signal, so the tracking delay is minimal.
> It even recognizes the picking position - you
> can for example choose three different sounds
> just by varying the picking position.
> 
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bluechipmusic
> 
> I'd really like to have one!
> Hallgeir
> -- 
> HELLAND MUSIKK TEKNOLOGI
> -=  Hallgeir Helland  =-
> hhelland at mailandnews.com
> 
> 




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun May 21 20:00:44 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:00:44 -0400
Subject: Frequency Doublers was "rant city"
References: <6b.486beac.26589c3d@aol.com> <958892946.39278b9204ef4@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <3928244B.9E1838DF@prodigy.net>

If you have a sine wave, you can put it into both inputs of a balanced modulator
(4 quadRANT) and get a sine at 2X the frequency.

If you have a sawtooth wave, convert to a triangle, offset (symmetrical around zero)
and
square it up... 2X frequency.

If you have real stable amplitude and a triangle, you can use a wave wrapper.
Thierry
Rochebois proposed one solution using a single op-amp per stage, I did one with a
QUAD op-amp per stage... (gets linearity at the price of complexity...). You can
cascade
as many stages as you like, and the frequency shift available is proportional to the
number of stages... any intergral shift can be gotten.... and it could be voltage
controlled by varying the input amplitude... but

It will only work as a frequency multiplier with a triangle. and inbetween the
frequency steps there will be horrible
(cool horrible for a change...) distortion.

There is the Phase lock loop... but if I was willing to either accept overshoot and
ringing in the frequency response (read glitches) or wait for slow-as-mole at sses
response (read delay) then I'd buy a GUITAR SYNTHESIZER !!!

:^)  harry

There are tricks that you can do with monostable (one shot) multivibrators... but
they usually work ONLY over a limited range of input frequency...

matti at devo.com wrote:

> Eh, but what about, say, Bach? He managed to do quite a lot with _his_ feet.
> Also, having but one instrument with but one parameter to control with one's
> feet simply does not help at all. That aside, I'm thinking that a few stomp-able
> buttons and wah-style-whatever-the-variable-resistors-are-called arried on the
> floor about one's feet would very much alow a great deal of expression.
>
> That aside, has anyone any schematics for frequency-_doublers_? Blacet and paia
> offer their octave dividers, but that still leaves one an octagve below what one
> is playing.
>
> Matti (wondering why his 555's suddenly up and stopped working)
>
> Quoting WeAreAs1 at aol.com:
>
> > Yeah, and look what those battalions of guitarist's feet have given us
> > over
> > the last 40 years:  An endless parade of sullen, skinny, dull-eyed,
> > long-and-scraggly-haired "musicians" interminably making with the
> > "wah-wah-wah-wah", almost invariably opening and closing their mouths in
> > sync
> > with the masturbatory motion of their smelly sneakers upon the Crybaby,
> > like
> > so many stoned aquarium fish, Jimi Hendrix notwithstanding (God rest his
> > soul).
> >
> > Mike B.
> >




From patchell at silcom.com  Sun May 21 20:12:38 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:12:38 -0700
Subject: Temperature Compensated VCO
Message-ID: <39282716.F0788424@silcom.com>

    Well, just got done doing the first run of taking data on my VCO.
After reducing the data, I came up with a scale drift of 625 ppm/C.  Not
great., but at least in the right direction.  Gonna do some more
fiddling.

-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun May 21 20:16:28 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:16:28 -0400
Subject: Harry's /Don's / Harry's / Goto 10 / rant
References: <200005210834.BAA28875@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <392827FC.2369D515@prodigy.net>

    Yeah I'd agree with that.  The Gr-300 is the starting place. I don't
care if it were to
take a whole rack module per string. But none of the "midi" etc synths of
later years have
what it takes. The main problem that I see is that the guitar waveform is
so time variant, that it is mostly impossible (or very hard) to stabilize
it to get the fundamental period.  The
circuit I'm playing with will get the fundamental with reasonable (but not
fade to black) sustain, no octave hopping, and just a phase reversal every
now and then (much less obvious than the octave jumps...).  This leaves us
with the fact that a guitar wave is stable only over a full cycle, not a
half cycle. Thats why almost all P/V converters divide by 2. I think you
could do the divide by 2 with multiple P/V circuits, and get fast response
by the end of the second fundamental cycle... OOPS that 24mS late, worst
case...

Sorry for the "ivory tower" arguement (re: synth as toy)... but you gotta
admit everytime
someone brings up "Pat Metheny" the arguement becomes valid.  That guy
could make a
cigar box and bailing wire guitar into a platinum album !!!

BTW be careful with the Pat Metheny Group.... A LOT of the synth work is
courtesy of Lyle Mays (keyboard) unless you are watching them live, it can
be real hard to tell them
apart at times...

H^)  harry (who will NEVER again use his name in a subject line... its
pretty freaky to get
about 30 e-mail with your name as subject...)

Don Tillman wrote:

>    From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com
>    Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:35:05 EDT
>
>    For some reason, I can't seem to find the original message of Don's
>    from which this was paraphrased.  I hope I didn't carelessly delete
>    it - I'm really enjoying this thread, and I'm always interested in
>    Don Tillman's thoughtful posts.
>
> Gosh, thanks.
>
>    However, it should be noted that the Roland GR-300 floor module
>    doesn't quite work exactly that way.  It does indeed use a
>    distorted and lowpass filtered version of the guitar's string
>    output to analyze for pitch-to-period conversion, but it doesn't
>    put that distorted string sound into the audio path either before
>    or after the VCO has settled on a stable pitch.
>
> My understanding of the GR300 is limited.  Thanks for supplying the
> details.
>
>    Nevertheless, Don is quite correct that the GR-300 system has
>    essentially zero delay (taking into consideration its slight attack
>    ramp in its VCA/VCF envelope).  If you ever get the chance, try one
>    sometime.  You'll be amazed at how much it's like playing a
>    "normal" guitar, especially if you've been beating yourself up
>    playing any of the modern-day MIDI guitar synths.  It's no wonder
>    that Pat Metheny, one of the truly great musical geniuses of our
>    time (and a very savvy and demanding techno-nerd), still uses it on
>    every recording and in every concert.  If you've ever seen him play
>    his orgasmic masterpiece "Are You Going With Me?" on that axe, you
>    know just how emotionally expressive and incredibly musical a
>    guitar synthesizer can be.
>
> I'll say.  This is where Pat Metheny takes a guitar synth and stands
> up and testifies.  It's scary when a musical performance can control
> your breathing.
>
> (Everyone else, the album is called "Offramp".  It's great.)
>
> I think those of us looking to build a better guitar synth should
> think of the GR300 as a reference.  Do something that's even better
> than this.
>
>   -- Don
>
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California, USA
> don at till.com
> http://www.till.com




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun May 21 20:20:13 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:20:13 -0400
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <3f.50b9ddd.265905e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <392828DD.AD4865F4@prodigy.net>

If you check out the V-Guitar system, they may be thinking along these
lines. Unfortunatly most of the effort seems to be make a fender into a
gibson... but
some of the "synth" sounds are good, and no delay.  This might
approximate the waveshaping idea so that the delay is eliminated...

H^)

WeAreAs1 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/21/00 12:34:48 AM, you wrote:
>
> <<I think those of us looking to build a better guitar synth should
> think of the GR300 as a reference.  Do something that's even better
> than this.>>
>
> If only Roland would consider this advice...




From matti at devo.com  Mon May 22 00:22:53 2000
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:22:53 -0500
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: <3928244B.9E1838DF@prodigy.net>
References: <6b.486beac.26589c3d@aol.com> <958892946.39278b9204ef4@whipit.devo.com> <3928244B.9E1838DF@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <958947773.392861bdc177a@whipit.devo.com>

Ok, that's staraight forward enough......and it leaves me with solutions that I 
might get around to one day.

thanks.

Matti



Quoting Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>:

> If you have a sine wave, you can put it into both inputs of a balanced
> modulator
> (4 quadRANT) and get a sine at 2X the frequency.
> 
> If you have a sawtooth wave, convert to a triangle, offset (symmetrical
> around zero)
> and
> square it up... 2X frequency.
> 
> If you have real stable amplitude and a triangle, you can use a wave
> wrapper.
> Thierry
> Rochebois proposed one solution using a single op-amp per stage, I did
> one with a
> QUAD op-amp per stage... (gets linearity at the price of complexity...).
> You can
> cascade
> as many stages as you like, and the frequency shift available is
> proportional to the
> number of stages... any intergral shift can be gotten.... and it could
> be voltage
> controlled by varying the input amplitude... but
> 
> It will only work as a frequency multiplier with a triangle. and
> inbetween the
> frequency steps there will be horrible
> (cool horrible for a change...) distortion.
> 
> There is the Phase lock loop... but if I was willing to either accept
> overshoot and
> ringing in the frequency response (read glitches) or wait for
> slow-as-mole at sses
> response (read delay) then I'd buy a GUITAR SYNTHESIZER !!!
> 
> :^)  harry
> 
> There are tricks that you can do with monostable (one shot)
> multivibrators... but
> they usually work ONLY over a limited range of input frequency...



From patchell at silcom.com  Mon May 22 00:47:37 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:47:37 -0700
Subject: Temperature Compensated VCO follow up
Message-ID: <39286789.9CB8E505@silcom.com>

    I managed to get the tempco down to 390ppM/C.  This is a triangle
VCO using an NPN/PNP pair to switch the current.  I was driving it at
about plus and minus 80mV before and changed that to plus and minus
100mV to get the improvement.  But, it looks like I will be forced to
try a saw tooth oscilator now.  Somehow, I suspect the current switch
(or OTA if that is how you want to look at it) is causing a lot of the
temp drift.

    Anybody have any experience concerning OTA's in triangle oscilators
and any tempco problems they might cause?

-Jim

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Mon May 22 01:45:54 2000
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:45:54 -0600
Subject: Temperature Compensated VCO follow up
References: <39286789.9CB8E505@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <001b01bfc37f$006efd80$34ab183f@Studio1>

Jim et al. --

Well, 390ppm/K isn't a bad result at all! Especially for just a couple days
of tweaking!!  Hal Chamberlin's improved version of Terry Michael's saw
oscillator only did about 1000ppm/K.

Out of curiosity, I wonder if you can say anything yet about the freq
dependence of the drift. Remember that the expo converter gives a T
dependence like exp[q(dVbe)/kT], where dVbe is the differential base-emitter
voltage. If the compensation isn't perfect, then the drift in ppm/K is zero
when dVbe=0 and increases -- in opposite directions -- on either side of
zero.

Did the change from 80 to 100mV affect the tracking accuracy? I always seem
to find the best tracking around 60-70mV.

By an amazing coincidence, just today I finally got all the drift out of my
differential-integrator tri osc. I've been fighting this one for a couple of
months. I'll post that tale separately.

  Ian


----- Original Message -----
From: "patchell" <patchell at silcom.com>


>     I managed to get the tempco down to 390ppM/C.  This is a triangle
> VCO using an NPN/PNP pair to switch the current.  I was driving it at
> about plus and minus 80mV before and changed that to plus and minus
> 100mV to get the improvement.  But, it looks like I will be forced to
> try a saw tooth oscilator now.  Somehow, I suspect the current switch
> (or OTA if that is how you want to look at it) is causing a lot of the
> temp drift.
>
>     Anybody have any experience concerning OTA's in triangle oscilators
> and any tempco problems they might cause?
>





From patchell at silcom.com  Mon May 22 01:59:44 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:59:44 -0700
Subject: Temperature Compensated VCO follow up
References: <39286789.9CB8E505@silcom.com> <001b01bfc37f$006efd80$34ab183f@Studio1>
Message-ID: <39287870.FCE74D75@silcom.com>



Ian Fritz wrote:

> Jim et al. --
>
> Out of curiosity, I wonder if you can say anything yet about the freq
> dependence of the drift. Remember that the expo converter gives a T
> dependence like exp[q(dVbe)/kT], where dVbe is the differential base-emitter
> voltage. If the compensation isn't perfect, then the drift in ppm/K is zero
> when dVbe=0 and increases -- in opposite directions -- on either side of
> zero.
>

    Good point.  I only checked the scale drift at one point.

>
> Did the change from 80 to 100mV affect the tracking accuracy? I always seem
> to find the best tracking around 60-70mV.
>

    I did not check for tracking this go around (tomorrow?maybe).  I was mostly
concerned with weather the temperature compensation would work at all.  Also, I
was trying to keep the number of variables down to a minimum.  My poor brain is
slowly becoming accustomed to doing Synth DIY again (it has taken me a year and
a half to get to this point).

>
> By an amazing coincidence, just today I finally got all the drift out of my
> differential-integrator tri osc. I've been fighting this one for a couple of
> months. I'll post that tale separately.
>

    Congrats.  I will be curious to see it.

>
>   Ian
>

    -Jim





From don at till.com  Mon May 22 02:04:48 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:04:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frequency Doublers was "rant city"
In-Reply-To: <3928244B.9E1838DF@prodigy.net> (message from Harry Bissell on
	Sun, 21 May 2000 14:00:44 -0400)
Message-ID: <200005220004.RAA07613@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:00:44 -0400
   From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>

   If you have a sine wave
[...]
   If you have a sawtooth wave
[...]
   If you have real stable amplitude and a triangle
[...]


And if you have a square wave, do this (ascii graphics ahead):

        +---> lossy integrator --> comparator -->
input --+                                        XOR gate --> 2x out
        +--------------------------------------->


The lossy integrator parameters are chosen so that the comparator
output is close to 90-degrees from the original signal over the
frequency range of interest.  It could be a simple RC network.  XORing
two square waves 90-degrees apart gives you a 2x square wave.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Mon May 22 03:36:52 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 03:36:52 +0200
Subject: Frequency Doublers was "rant city"
In-Reply-To: <200005220004.RAA07613@shell9.ba.best.com>
References: <3928244B.9E1838DF@prodigy.net>
	<200005220004.RAA07613@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <20000522033652B.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Don Tillman <don at till.com>
Subject: Re: Frequency Doublers was "rant city"
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:04:48 -0700 (PDT)

>    Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:00:44 -0400
>    From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> 
>    If you have a sine wave
> [...]
>    If you have a sawtooth wave
> [...]

BTW. I dreamed up a curcuit leaning towards the simple side of things which
will frequency double a sawtooth waveform. You can find it on my webpages
http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/schematics/.

It basically builds on this signal processing flow:

            *---> comparator --*
Saw input --*                 (+)--> gain --> 2x Saw out
            *------------------*

Where the summation point also takes care of the necessary DC offset
correction. The comparator swaps at midpoint and the summation of the
comparator and the original saw is done so that when the saw raises above
modpoint will the comparator output fall, this then results in the sum to
fall and thus the modpoint translate to a new reset point so to speak.

As I see this schematic I feel that I could probably make it work with less
components and probably make it better in the process. Anyway, I think that
given the basic processing flow many diffrent variations with various success
could be generated.

Cheers,
Magnus



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Mon May 22 03:39:20 2000
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 19:39:20 -0600
Subject: New VCO
Message-ID: <003401bfc38e$cc9b37c0$34ab183f@Studio1>

Hello all --

This is the wrapup report on the development of the differential-integrator
triangle VCO that I've been working on for the last few months.

For those who don't remember (/ didn't see) the previous descriptions here's
a quick summary of the circuit. The core is a differential integrator whose
current directions are periodically reversed by a pair of transistors. As a
threshold voltage is crossed, the two halves of an LM319 comparitor switch
in opposite directions, and the two outputs are fed back to switch the
transistors. The circuit is thus highly symmetric in operation, yielding a
very nice triangle with imperceptable distortion over the audio range.

The comparitor outputs (and, therefore, the switching thresholds) are
clamped by a zener-diode / switching-diode bridge circuit. Using an 8.2V
zener produces a nearly temperature independent threshold, since this value
of zener has the same, but opposite, temperature coefficient as two Si
switching diodes. (See Horowitz/Hill sec. 6.14.)

For the expo converter I decided to try an NPN pair from a CA3083 array. A
standard matching measurement showed less than 0.2mV offset and h_fe's  are
around 250.

One of the biggest problems in getting a tri osc to work well is the
inevitable dc offset voltage that develops around the loop. This offset
affects tracking and symmetry. In my circuit I was able to get the offset at
the output down to about +/- 2mV over the audio range. Beyond 30kHz or so it
suddenly increases to about 30mV, causing a bit of overtracking in the 20kHz
to 40kHz octave. Getting this offset value down was probably the trickiest
part of the circuit development. In the end, it required running the LM319
at a reduced power supply voltage (+/- 6.9V works OK), carefully choosing
the LM319's output and pullup resistors and carefully matching the diodes in
the clamp.

The final result on tracking is an essentially perfect curve measured from
100Hz to 20kHz. Per octave, the control voltage changes are all1.000 +/-
0.001V, or 0.1% tracking accuracy over the entire range.

Temperature compensation was achieved by a fairly long and tedious series of
measurements and tweaks. First the bare oscillator (no expo converter) was
measured at a couple of frequencies and found to have about a 400ppm/K
drift. This was corrected by making the voltage divider setting the
trip-point temperature dependent. This was done simply by using a
carbon-film resistor in one leg and a metal-film resistor in the other.

Next, the expo converter was hooked up, but with both transistor bases
grounded. This added a bit of drift whose source I couldn't track down. I
suspected transistor mismatch, but swapping the two transistors didn't
change the drift at all. I ended up compensating by using a carbon-film unit
for the current-defining resistor, which worked just right (luckily).

(Hmm... The two drifts just described are about equal and opposite. Maybe I
didn't need to fix either!)

Finally the input summing amp was added, using a 2k 3500ppm/K tempco
resistor for feedback. The temperature drift was then measured two octaves
below and above the quiescent frequency (dVbe=0, 1kHz). I found that the
tempco resistor was overcompensating slightly, which was fixed by adding a
small (40R) series resistance.

The final result is temperature drift that is really too small to measure.
It's certainly less than 100ppm/K from 250Hz to 4kHz and probably less than
50ppm/K. Again, this was achieved by simple passive compensation.

My schedule is pretty busy the next few weeks, but I'll try to get a full
schematic up on my website soon.

  Ian





From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Mon May 22 05:01:35 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 03:01:35 GMT
Subject: New VCO,linearity!
Message-ID: <20000522030135.78998.qmail@hotmail.com>

Talking about VCO's, what is the highest linearity
percentage error one could accept over a 20Hz to 10KHz
range? Is 0,4% bad? Talking only about the VCO
not the expoconverter error introduced.

And how about the highest PPM Temp value for
the frequency of the VCO?


AP

>From: "Ian Fritz" <ijfritz at earthlink.net>

>The final result on tracking is an essentially perfect curve measured from 
> >100Hz to 20kHz. Per octave, the control voltage changes are all1.000 +/- 
>0.001V, or 0.1% tracking accuracy over the entire range.

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From clark at andrews.edu  Mon May 22 05:51:21 2000
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:51:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: New VCO,linearity!
In-Reply-To: <20000522030135.78998.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000521233112.24965A-100000@edmund.cs.andrews.edu>

> Talking about VCO's, what is the highest linearity
> percentage error one could accept over a 20Hz to 10KHz
> range? Is 0,4% bad? Talking only about the VCO
> not the expoconverter error introduced.

   Well uncompensated VCOs tend to run in the 10% error range over 20-30 
degree Farenheit.  Obviously this is pretty bad.  At 1% (over a 20-30 
degree differential with a typical compensated VCO design) it's not so 
bad as typically your ambient isn't going to change by that much during 
the course of use.  At maybe 5-10 degree differential we're talking 0.5% 
or less in practical terms.
   In the testing I have done I have noticed that the drift is not linear 
over the whole frequency range.  Someone else may have experienced 
otherwise, but there appears to be a definate "zero" point where there is 
no drift.  Above and below this center frequency the drift changes 
directions.  It really doesn't mean much except for the fact that the 
extreme frequencies have the worst drift!  And depending on the design, 
the "zero" point may not be in the center of the frequency spectrum!

> And how about the highest PPM Temp value for
> the frequency of the VCO?

   This is totally related to the particular design.  If you are talking 
about your stereotypical sawtooth integrator VCO, it's something 
inbetween 3300ppm and 3800ppm.  I've been told that 3500ppm is ideal, but 
it is a little more difficult to obtain Tempco resistors with this 
value.
   I'm sure others can shed more light in this arena as it is quite a 
prevalent topic here at DIY.  :)

   Tony

------------------------------------,----------------------------------
I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
------------------------------------|  
Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
------------------------------------'----------------------------------




From nikro at itn.liu.se  Mon May 22 07:54:13 2000
From: nikro at itn.liu.se (Niklas =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F6nnberg?=)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 07:54:13 +0200
Subject: saw to sine
Message-ID: <3928CB85.188ED467@itn.liu.se>

Hello!
How do I convert a sawtooth to a sinewave? The saw looks like this / / /
/ and comes from a Fatman vco.
/Niklas
___________________________________

Niklas R?nnberg, Lecturer (Media Technology)

Dept of Science and Technology (ITN)
Link?ping University, Campus Norrk?ping

Phone: +46(0)11-363316 Fax:+46(0)11-363270
E-mail: nikro at itn.liu.se
Homepage: http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/

    "The semiotic $64,000 question:
  Why and how is who communicating what
     to whom and with what effect?"





From tom at synth-diy.you-bastards.com  Mon May 22 09:14:41 2000
From: tom at synth-diy.you-bastards.com (Tom May)
Date: 22 May 2000 00:14:41 -0700
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: "Theo"'s message of "Sun, 21 May 2000 19:57:09 +0200"
References: <200005210834.BAA28875@shell9.ba.best.com> <3927B290.A6222EC0@mailandnews.com> <003a01bfc34d$fd3e9b60$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <E12tmQE-0007cE-00@no-spam.you-bastards.com>

"Theo" <t.hogers at home.nl> writes:

> Now that's a nice guitarsynt.
> This neuro-net thing is surly going places.
> Still the delay is around 12 to 13 ms, what is way to long. :-(

The page at http://www.musicindustries.com/axon/compare.htm gives
AX-100 timings of 11.7 to 12.9 ms for low notes on the low E string.
And the FAQ at http://www.musicindustries.com/axon/axonfaq1.html says

  According to Andras Szalay, the "inventor" of the Axon . . .
  tracking times for guitar are in the 4-13 msec range.

And later it says
 
  There will be no difference in tracking speed or response whether
  you use the Axon's internal sounds or an external tone generator.
  . . . The Axon's internal soundboard is merely on a parallel MIDI
  connection with the MIDI out on the rear of the Axon unit. What this
  means is that Axon deals in MIDI, and only MIDI, all the time.

And on http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bluechipmusic/tech.htm
Andras Szalay says:

  The delay is either 
      1 period of the string frequency + 0.5 msec 
      or about 6 msec, 
  whichever is greater.  This amounts to 13 msec for the lowest note
  of the guitar. 

Here are my actual results measuring the delay between the guitar
sound and the synthesized sound from several tone generators.  (The
timing for the sixth string improves to match the timing for the fifth
string on notes above the fifth fret or so.)

            Internal
String      Daughterboard    VL70-m    Matrix-1000
1           12-13ms          19-20ms   16-20ms
2           12-13ms          19-20ms   16-20ms
3           12-13ms          20-22ms   16-20ms
4           12-13ms          20-22ms   16-20ms
5           12-13ms          19-20ms   16-20ms
6           18ms             22-30ms   20-22ms

> A faster processor may help or a more optimised neuro engiene.

I don't think the neural net calculations are time consuming.  The
time it takes the initial picking impulse to reflect from the bridge
and fret causes some delay (Andras's 6ms?), and so does the MIDI
transmission (2-3 ms?) and processing (?).

> Now who's going to DIY this one???

Well you can start with US patents 5929360 and 5717155.  Interesting
stuff.

fTom.

> Cheers Theo.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Hallgeir Helland <hhelland at mailandnews.com>
> To: DIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I've been reading this thread and it's quite interesting.
> > 
> > FWIW: the AXON guitar -> MIDI seems quite nice.
> > I just recieved a demo video of it, and I am impressed.
> > It uses neural net technology to recognize the attack
> > of the signal, so the tracking delay is minimal.
> > It even recognizes the picking position - you
> > can for example choose three different sounds
> > just by varying the picking position.
> > 
> > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bluechipmusic
> > 
> > I'd really like to have one!
> > Hallgeir
> > -- 
> > HELLAND MUSIKK TEKNOLOGI
> > -=  Hallgeir Helland  =-
> > hhelland at mailandnews.com
> > 
> > 



From czech at Micronas.Com  Mon May 22 09:22:53 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:22:53 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Matador
Message-ID: <200005220722.JAA04811@ikarus.intermetall.de>

I'd say their very short moment of fame was their modular synth,
all CEM based, very resonable. Never made it...


m.c.

:::From: "Theo" <t.hogers at home.nl>
:::To: "Ingrad Baman" <baman at freemail.hu>, <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
:::Cc: <baman at freemail.hu>
:::Subject: Re: Matador
:::Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:17:23 +0200
:::Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
:::
:::F.A. B?hm KG is (was) the name of a German DIY organ and synth kit
:::manufacturer.
:::The company is still active as: B?hm electronic GmbH.
:::Their focus is on the "allein underhalter" & home organ market.
:::www.boehm-electronic.com
:::
:::The company had its 5 minutes of fame with the B?hm 12/24 expander.
:::A 12 or 24 voice four operator PhM (FM) synth module, came around short
:::after the DX7.
:::It may very well be the first multi-timbal module uberhaubt.
:::Both Yamaha and B?hm denied that the 12/24 was a FM synth and Yahama didn't
:::use B?hm drum technology either.
:::
:::Hope this helps,
:::
:::Theo
:::
:::
:::----- Original Message -----
:::From: Ingrad Baman <baman at freemail.hu>
:::To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
:::Cc: <baman at freemail.hu>
:::Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 9:37 AM
:::Subject: Matador
:::
:::
:::> Hello!
:::>
:::> Somebody suggested this list to me when he heard about my problem. I hope
:::I'll find a solution here from you.
:::> I've got an old synth from a friend. I'm really interested in it and I'd
:::like to hear its voice, but as I see there's no
:::> power supply in it! I've never seen (and thought) a way like this, because
:::there's no cable coming out, there's no
:::> any hole on the surface for any power cable. There's just only one output
:::for the sound (DIN). Inside I see a place
:::> seems for a changeable power supply (accumulator?).
:::>
:::> I've made some photos to help recognize this stuff. See at
:::http://www.extra.hu/baman/matador/
:::>
:::> I've searched the web about Matador and found some pages but these all
:::about the Matador made by Farfisa. My
:::> one contains the label 'Matador', but there's no other signs on it, just a
:::little metal table on the back says:
:::>
:::> F. A. Bohm KG. (+ address) [In the word Bohm the 'o' wears two points,
:::it's a german name].
:::>
:::> I need your help to find a description about this synth especially about
:::the power supply. I'd like to repair it and use
:::> it if possible.
:::>
:::>
:::> Thanks&bye.




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Mon May 22 09:57:07 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 03:57:07 EDT
Subject: saw to sine
Message-ID: <57.5fe0ec8.265a4253@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/21/00 9:56:28 PM, you wrote:

<<How do I convert a sawtooth to a sinewave? 
The saw looks like this / / / / and comes from a 
Fatman vco.>>

The usual method is to first convert the saw to a triangle, using one of the 
several proven techniques, then convert the triangle to a sine with some 
nonlinear waveshaping, such as diode clipping or overdriving the input of a 
3080 ota.  Unfortunately, the Fatman 555-based VCO's don't really provide a 
perfectly shaped sawtooth wave, so they don't lend themselves very well to 
the usual saw-to-triangle methods, most of which rely on a very uniform and 
linear ramp with a sharp fallback, in order to work correctly.  It's probably 
worth some experimenting, though.  There are several saw-to-triangle circuits 
out there among the various DIY websites.  Maybe  someone knows the URL's?  
(I don't..)

Michael Bacich



From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Mon May 22 11:09:38 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:09:38 +0200
Subject: Matador
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01F63F5B@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>

	>Weird. I've never seen a 5-octave keyboard starting with F. Or are
the
	>pictures mirror-imaged?

JH-720 keyboard starts with "F", too. (And so did the Roland SH2000, where I
got
the keyboard action from.) And I find my hand reaching for an "E" below all
too
often, as there is a piece of wood of the same height as them keys :

	http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh720_3.jpg

JH.



From vampope at swbell.net  Mon May 22 11:29:34 2000
From: vampope at swbell.net (Tim Curtis)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 04:29:34 -0500
Subject: saw to sine
References: <57.5fe0ec8.265a4253@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3928FDFD.56D782B3@postoffice.swbell.net>

How about converting a triangle wave to a sine wave on a Minimoog?  Any
suggestions of just how to do that?

Keep in mind that I'm an idiot.


Tim


WeAreAs1 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/21/00 9:56:28 PM, you wrote:
>
> <<How do I convert a sawtooth to a sinewave?
> The saw looks like this / / / / and comes from a
> Fatman vco.>>
>
> The usual method is to first convert the saw to a triangle, using one of the
> several proven techniques, then convert the triangle to a sine with some
> nonlinear waveshaping, such as diode clipping or overdriving the input of a
> 3080 ota.  Unfortunately, the Fatman 555-based VCO's don't really provide a
> perfectly shaped sawtooth wave, so they don't lend themselves very well to
> the usual saw-to-triangle methods, most of which rely on a very uniform and
> linear ramp with a sharp fallback, in order to work correctly.  It's probably
> worth some experimenting, though.  There are several saw-to-triangle circuits
> out there among the various DIY websites.  Maybe  someone knows the URL's?
> (I don't..)
>
> Michael Bacich




From prefect at sidehack.sat.gweep.net  Mon May 22 14:43:08 2000
From: prefect at sidehack.sat.gweep.net (Steve Richardson)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:43:08 -0400
Subject: Palm Pilot/Handspring DIY Midi
In-Reply-To: <392956B5.1DBB20DF@zoo.uvm.edu>; from rrickner@zoo.uvm.edu on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 11:48:05AM -0400
References: <392956B5.1DBB20DF@zoo.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <20000522084308.A60577@sidehack.sat.gweep.net>

Rob Rickner wrangled the electrons to say:
> Palm Pilot MIDI gets cheap! Here's a build it yourself MIDI adapter for
> the
> Palm's serial port, which means that you can use it with the Handspring
> devices!
> 
> http://fargo.itp.tsoa.nyu.edu/~gsmith/Pilot/PilotMidi.htm#MidiInt
> 
> Obviously these aren't really cheap yet, although an 8mb handspring
> could be found for about $250.  The potential of these as sequencers,
> MIDI filtering devices, and live performance is immense.  It seems like
> you could create an interesting touch pad/sylus MIDI controller without
> too much trouble as far as programming goes.  Is it possible to create a
> CV controller with the same theory?

An acquaintance of mine from college runs a handheld music web site,
which pretty much focuses around both home-brew and some commercial
MIDI software and interfaces for Palms.  His handheld-music site is
locate at: http://www.crudites.org/soundventures/handheld-music/

In particular, his collective is responsible for:

http://www.crudites.org/soundventures/software/tractor/
http://www.crudites.org/soundventures/software/meedy/

which are both MIDI controller programs.

enjoy,
-Steve


-- 

 Stephen S. Richardson                  The GweepCo Cooperative Network
 prefect at gweep.net                      network access * technology vulturing
 http://www.gweep.net/~prefect/         http://www.gweep.net/



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Mon May 22 15:42:02 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:42:02 +0100
Subject: saw to sine
References: <57.5fe0ec8.265a4253@aol.com> <3928FDFD.56D782B3@postoffice.swbell.net>
Message-ID: <004c01bfc3f3$aea9dc20$541a883e@default>

Hi Tim and all,

>How about converting a triangle wave to a sine wave on a Minimoog?

No great difficulty this... have a look at my '1 of 3' VCO on my site.
The core is a third series mini VCO anyway with an additional sine out.
It uses the tried and trusted, although not the best, method using an
overdriven 3080.

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK








From patchell at silcom.com  Mon May 22 15:57:46 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 06:57:46 -0700
Subject: New VCO
References: <003401bfc38e$cc9b37c0$34ab183f@Studio1>
Message-ID: <39293CDA.3C9870E3@silcom.com>



Ian Fritz wrote:

> Hello all --
>

    <snip>

>
>
> The final result is temperature drift that is really too small to measure.
> It's certainly less than 100ppm/K from 250Hz to 4kHz and probably less than
> 50ppm/K. Again, this was achieved by simple passive compensation.
>
> My schedule is pretty busy the next few weeks, but I'll try to get a full
> schematic up on my website soon.
>

    Can hardly wait.  It sounds very fascinating....

>
>   Ian

-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From patchell at silcom.com  Mon May 22 16:05:53 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 07:05:53 -0700
Subject: saw to sine
References: <57.5fe0ec8.265a4253@aol.com>
Message-ID: <39293EC0.153C3E2E@silcom.com>



WeAreAs1 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/21/00 9:56:28 PM, you wrote:
>
> <<How do I convert a sawtooth to a sinewave?
> The saw looks like this / / / / and comes from a
> Fatman vco.>>
>
> The usual method is to first convert the saw to a triangle, using one of the
> several proven techniques, then convert the triangle to a sine with some
> nonlinear waveshaping, such as diode clipping or overdriving the input of a
> 3080 ota.  Unfortunately, the Fatman 555-based VCO's don't really provide a
> perfectly shaped sawtooth wave, so they don't lend themselves very well to
> the usual saw-to-triangle methods, most of which rely on a very uniform and
> linear ramp with a sharp fallback, in order to work correctly.  It's probably
> worth some experimenting, though.  There are several saw-to-triangle circuits
> out there among the various DIY websites.  Maybe  someone knows the URL's?
> (I don't..)
>
> Michael Bacich

    http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/tcvco/tcvco.pdf

    This has a somewhat reasonable saw->tri->sine converter in it.  Just ignore
the VCO part.

-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Mon May 22 16:10:21 2000
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:10:21 -0600
Subject: New VCO,linearity!
References: <20000522030135.78998.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <005d01bfc3f7$78635f20$7f77143f@Studio1>

Augusto --

----- Original Message -----
From: "Augusto Pinoche" <augustopinoche at hotmail.com>

> Talking about VCO's, what is the highest linearity
> percentage error one could accept over a 20Hz to 10KHz
> range? Is 0,4% bad? Talking only about the VCO
> not the expoconverter error introduced.

Well, there's room for personal taste and opinion here. The way I look at
it, it would be really nice to have frequency accurate to +/- 1Hz. That way
two oscillators playing together would only have slow beats. (If you want
beats, then you detune). This 1Hz criterion is not a fixed percentage, of
course. At 1kHz it is 0.1%, at 200Hz it is 0.5%, etc. I shoot for 0.1%
because that's about the limit of what you can measure without special
lab-grade test equipment. Also it's plenty hard to get to this level.

> And how about the highest PPM Temp value for
> the frequency of the VCO?

Again -- personal choice. Some people have been happy using a differential
pair converter without the compensation for the 1/T in the exponent. This is
3300ppm/K. If you just throw in a tempco resistor this drops to the range of
about 500-1000ppm/K, since the tempco is not exact compensation without
trimming and because there are other sources of drift in the circuitry. Many
people live with this level of drift, although it requires frequent
retuning. I've been trying to do better mainly because it's an interesting
technical challenge. It doesn't take too much work to get down to the
200-400ppm/K level, but it takes some time and careful measurements.

  Ian




From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Mon May 22 17:31:27 2000
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:31:27 +0200
Subject: Guitar synths
References: <200005201628.LAA20619@chupacabras.flash.net>
Message-ID: <392952CF.36BD5D1D@consol.de>

Hi Scott 

There is one technologie, taht is used by the Axxon guitar MIDI
controler: They are measuring the response time of the pulse which is
sent from the pick to the pressed fret and to the bridge. This give a
first information which is verified afterwards by the mentioned
classical methods. I tested it for the german Keys magazin. Very nice
piece. Especially the responsetime which was available for a bass guitar
was unbelievable fast.

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de



From rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu  Mon May 22 17:48:05 2000
From: rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu (Rob Rickner)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:48:05 -0400
Subject: Palm Pilot/Handspring DIY Midi
Message-ID: <392956B5.1DBB20DF@zoo.uvm.edu>

Palm Pilot MIDI gets cheap! Here's a build it yourself MIDI adapter for
the
Palm's serial port, which means that you can use it with the Handspring
devices!

http://fargo.itp.tsoa.nyu.edu/~gsmith/Pilot/PilotMidi.htm#MidiInt

Obviously these aren't really cheap yet, although an 8mb handspring
could be found for about $250.  The potential of these as sequencers,
MIDI filtering devices, and live performance is immense.  It seems like
you could create an interesting touch pad/sylus MIDI controller without
too much trouble as far as programming goes.  Is it possible to create a
CV controller with the same theory?

Rob





From don at till.com  Mon May 22 22:53:31 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:53:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
In-Reply-To: <392828DD.AD4865F4@prodigy.net> (message from Harry Bissell on
	Sun, 21 May 2000 14:20:13 -0400)
Message-ID: <200005222053.NAA18954@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:20:13 -0400
   From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>

   If you check out the V-Guitar system, they may be thinking along
   these lines. Unfortunatly most of the effort seems to be make a
   fender into a gibson... but some of the "synth" sounds are good,
   and no delay.  This might approximate the waveshaping idea so that
   the delay is eliminated... 

I *think* the Roland V-Guitar system is simply a standard DSP-based
effects unit, including pitch shifting and distortion, plus a digital
filter to emulate body resonances and a hex digital filter to emulate
the response of various pickup types and positions.

(The frequency response due to the pickup position and width is with
respect to the wavelength on the string, so it has to be done
seperately on each string.  Hence the hex pickup.)

It's interesting, but I don't think it's applicable to a guitar
synthesizer. 

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From Roel.Das at student.groept.be  Tue May 23 00:39:43 2000
From: Roel.Das at student.groept.be (Roel Das)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:39:43 +0200
Subject: The sherman endwork project revealed...
Message-ID: <000701bfc43e$a0b69540$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>

Hello all,

I talked to one of the guys that did their endwork for Sherman today. Their
assignement was: programming of a floating point DSP: videosynthesizer. The
DSP should take video images and get some audio out of it. (The other way
around is also possible, and would be a really cool show, I think...) They
didn't had the hardware to get in the video images, so they only finished
the software for the conversion of one still image, programmed in the DSP
memory with the computer.

The way it sortof works: the image is divided into pixels. There are 180
lines. Each line represents a frequency, and the color sets the amplitude.
For example, a black line (max amplitude) on the bottom of a white page (min
amplitude) would result in a wave at the lowest frequency.

>From what I understand, this means that the conversion goes from one side of
the image to the other side, and each line is a momentary image of the
frequency spectrum of the signal...

It doesn't have alot of musical possibilities, but the sound could be very
inspiring, said the man. Maybe a nice random noise source, but quite
expensive, right?

I've also moved the midiCV project site. The same address will now lead you
to a more complete site of my work. However, it's still under construction,
and there's nothing but a link to the midicv rpoject at the moment... One of
these days, I'll be putting pictures on it... Next week maybe...

I'm putting together a working version of the midiCV for my presentation
next week. A working version of the software still has to be written. This
shouldn't be much of a problem, I've had every bit of the board working,
just need to put the parts together, and have the midi messages correctly
handled...

Anyway, now you all know what sherman is up to. Last year I talked to
Sherman on the phone about a possible project for me, I could do the video
synth in Java if I wanted. I'm really glad I did the MIDI CV. And ytou've
all been a great help...

And a good friend of mine is looking for an endwork project too (for next
year)... If anyone of you has a great idea, a project he can do for you, or
on his own, let me know!!

Thanks,
Roel




From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Tue May 23 01:31:28 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:31:28 -0500
Subject: Latest version Orcad limitation check
Message-ID: <006c01bfc445$db824b40$0014fea9@rob>

Just wanted to see if anyone has actually laid out a schematic, routed, and
printed up a board with the latest version of Orcad Demo which I *think* is
release 9.

If so, I have a few questions.

1) Was there any problems doing it?
2) Could you actually layout a board of any size as long as it had less than
100 parts?

The reason I am asking is that I dont feel like learning a new package and
layout an entire board only to find I wasted my time because some weird
limitation. I *obviously* dont have 2k usd to buy the thing and I certainly
wont be making enough from it anytime soon to warrant me buying it. I just
want to layout a few personal projects and one-offs for people.

Thanx

Rob




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Tue May 23 01:53:31 2000
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 01:53:31 +0200
Subject: saw to sine
In-Reply-To: <3928CB85.188ED467@itn.liu.se>
References: <3928CB85.188ED467@itn.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20000523015331N.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Niklas R?nnberg <nikro at itn.liu.se>
Subject: saw to sine
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 07:54:13 +0200

> Hello!
> How do I convert a sawtooth to a sinewave? The saw looks like this / / /
> / and comes from a Fatman vco.

Do a sawtooth to triangle conversion and then convert the triangle into an
sine. There are many excellent curcuits doing both, so I guess you should be
able to sniff it up. Look at Juergen Haibles and J?rgen Bergfors stuff to
start your digging. I think you will find Juergen's frequency shifter an
interesting piece to look at.

Cheers,
Magnus




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 23 02:13:45 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:13:45 -0400
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <200005222053.NAA18954@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <3929CD38.A253D8B9@prodigy.net>

The V-guitar is capable of some synth-like textures... most notably (IMO)
a
"hammond" organ sound, a couple of basses, and some more traditional
"synthy" sounds (of course around here... 'Traditional' and 'Synthy' do
not go hand in hand :^)

The hex pickup is needed because the system is polyphonic... the
Al-Gore-rhythms
are separate for each string.  IM!HO  the "virtual" amps svck. If you
want a Fender get
a Fender, Marshall/Marshall etc.  And I wouldn't buy it just for the
couple of synth
textures...

since it is real time it would (of course) be described as "distortion".

Always cracked me up when people would point out early "Queen" albums
with the
disclaimer "no synthesizers"   Yeah... Byte Me... what the hell do you
call all that
signal processing gear PATCHED together ???

H^)  harry (the quest for the 'grail' continues)

Don Tillman wrote:

>    Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:20:13 -0400
>    From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>
>    If you check out the V-Guitar system, they may be thinking along
>    these lines. Unfortunatly most of the effort seems to be make a
>    fender into a gibson... but some of the "synth" sounds are good,
>    and no delay.  This might approximate the waveshaping idea so that
>    the delay is eliminated...
>
> I *think* the Roland V-Guitar system is simply a standard DSP-based
> effects unit, including pitch shifting and distortion, plus a digital
> filter to emulate body resonances and a hex digital filter to emulate
> the response of various pickup types and positions.
>
> (The frequency response due to the pickup position and width is with
> respect to the wavelength on the string, so it has to be done
> seperately on each string.  Hence the hex pickup.)
>
> It's interesting, but I don't think it's applicable to a guitar
> synthesizer.
>
>   -- Don
>
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California, USA
> don at till.com
> http://www.till.com




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 23 02:19:56 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:19:56 -0400
Subject: The sherman endwork project revealed...
References: <000701bfc43e$a0b69540$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>
Message-ID: <3929CEAB.C764FCFE@prodigy.net>

Project Ideas ???

<blonde mode on>

"A Guitar Synth interface with Zero tracking delay ???"

<blonde mode off>

H^)

BTW you should check out Fractint (freeware fractal program) which has fractal
audio
capability. Use an internal sound card, up to 9 voices, user specifies scale,
tempo, synth parameters....

If any of you software wizzes could port the output to the sound card MIDI output
(or have it write std. midi to a file... I'd be happenin...

Roel Das wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I talked to one of the guys that did their endwork for Sherman today. Their
> assignement was: programming of a floating point DSP: videosynthesizer. The
> DSP should take video images and get some audio out of it. (The other way
> around is also possible, and would be a really cool show, I think...) They
> didn't had the hardware to get in the video images, so they only finished
> the software for the conversion of one still image, programmed in the DSP
> memory with the computer.
>
> The way it sortof works: the image is divided into pixels. There are 180
> lines. Each line represents a frequency, and the color sets the amplitude.
> For example, a black line (max amplitude) on the bottom of a white page (min
> amplitude) would result in a wave at the lowest frequency.
>
> >From what I understand, this means that the conversion goes from one side of
> the image to the other side, and each line is a momentary image of the
> frequency spectrum of the signal...
>
> It doesn't have alot of musical possibilities, but the sound could be very
> inspiring, said the man. Maybe a nice random noise source, but quite
> expensive, right?
>
> I've also moved the midiCV project site. The same address will now lead you
> to a more complete site of my work. However, it's still under construction,
> and there's nothing but a link to the midicv rpoject at the moment... One of
> these days, I'll be putting pictures on it... Next week maybe...
>
> I'm putting together a working version of the midiCV for my presentation
> next week. A working version of the software still has to be written. This
> shouldn't be much of a problem, I've had every bit of the board working,
> just need to put the parts together, and have the midi messages correctly
> handled...
>
> Anyway, now you all know what sherman is up to. Last year I talked to
> Sherman on the phone about a possible project for me, I could do the video
> synth in Java if I wanted. I'm really glad I did the MIDI CV. And ytou've
> all been a great help...
>
> And a good friend of mine is looking for an endwork project too (for next
> year)... If anyone of you has a great idea, a project he can do for you, or
> on his own, let me know!!
>
> Thanks,
> Roel




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue May 23 02:25:44 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:25:44 +1000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000523002544.00e7f8f8@popa.melbpc.org.au>

>To: "Roel Das" <Roel.Das at student.groept.be>
>From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
>Subject: Re: The sherman endwork project revealed...
>
>At 12:39 AM 23/05/00 +0200, you wrote:
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I talked to one of the guys that did their endwork for Sherman today. Their
>>assignement was: programming of a floating point DSP: videosynthesizer. The
>>DSP should take video images and get some audio out of it. (The other way
>>around is also possible, and would be a really cool show, I think...) They
>>didn't had the hardware to get in the video images, so they only finished
>>the software for the conversion of one still image, programmed in the DSP
>>memory with the computer.
>>
>>The way it sortof works: the image is divided into pixels. There are 180
>>lines. Each line represents a frequency, and the color sets the amplitude.
>>For example, a black line (max amplitude) on the bottom of a white page (min
>>amplitude) would result in a wave at the lowest frequency.
>>
>>>From what I understand, this means that the conversion goes from one side of
>>the image to the other side, and each line is a momentary image of the
>>frequency spectrum of the signal...
>>
>>It doesn't have alot of musical possibilities, but the sound could be very
>>inspiring, said the man. Maybe a nice random noise source, but quite
>>expensive, right?
>>
>>I've also moved the midiCV project site. The same address will now lead you
>>to a more complete site of my work. However, it's still under construction,
>>and there's nothing but a link to the midicv rpoject at the moment... One of
>>these days, I'll be putting pictures on it... Next week maybe...
>>
>>I'm putting together a working version of the midiCV for my presentation
>>next week. A working version of the software still has to be written. This
>>shouldn't be much of a problem, I've had every bit of the board working,
>>just need to put the parts together, and have the midi messages correctly
>>handled...
>>
>>Anyway, now you all know what sherman is up to. Last year I talked to
>>Sherman on the phone about a possible project for me, I could do the video
>>synth in Java if I wanted. I'm really glad I did the MIDI CV. And ytou've
>>all been a great help...
>>
>>And a good friend of mine is looking for an endwork project too (for next
>>year)... If anyone of you has a great idea, a project he can do for you, or
>>on his own, let me know!!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Roel
>>
>>
>>




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue May 23 02:31:02 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:31:02 +1000
Subject: The sherman endwork project revealed...
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000523003102.00e9ed88@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 08:19 PM 22/05/00 -0400, Harry Bissell  wrote:
check out Fractint (freeware fractal program) which has fractal
>audio>capability. Use an internal sound card, up to 9 voices,
 user specifies scale,>tempo, synth parameters....>
>If any of you software wizzes could port the output to the sound card MIDI
output
>(or have it write std. midi to a file... I'd be happenin...
>
Hey no problem Harry, we'll just plug the audio into your guitar synth input
(ducks)

paul perrymelbourne australia




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 23 04:40:17 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:40:17 -0400
Subject: Up all night was: guitar synth
Message-ID: <3929EF90.F968500@prodigy.net>

Some times I get a stuffy nose (eh...) and the medication can have some
bizarre side effects. If I have to take it for the first time, late at
night... I will not sleep. So I lie awake
in bed ALL NIGHT LONG, waiting for the effects to go away.

(I know you college kids and '60s refugees actually LIKE this kind of
thing...) but if its a SUNDAY night with work in the AM its no fun...

OTOH: with nothing moving except the brain, you can get a lot of
engineering done. Here
are the fever dreams from the weekend.

GUITAR SYNTH:  Premise... If you knew precisely what fret is fingered,
you can take
a damn good guess at what the pitch will be. Maybe not perfect, but it
will cover you until you can make a real measurement "later".

Idea #1 :  Some guitar has "glued on" stainless steel frets, no tang.
Think its "Parker".
Use this fret construction, with a piezo strip under each fret. Whack
the piezos with a voltage pulse, transmits a mechanical impulse. Now
scan fron the nut toward the bridge,
wacking each fret in turn. Piezo saddles in the bridge form the
receiver. Now if the fret is behind the finger, the pulse cannot
transmit down the string... (mechanical damping) but as soon as a fret
just in FRONT of the finger is hit, the pulse races to the bridge saddle
pickup a 4000 feet per second (speed of sound in steel, I think..) That
is the finger position.

Works with Barre chords, etc. Pre-bent strings are still a problem. You
don't have to
enable the output until a magnetic "hex" pickup gets the pick attack.

Problem... can the wacked string generate enough mechanical vibration to
be seen as
audio in the pickup ???

Would the fret vibration tickle ??? HURT ???

Idea #2   (now 4:00am)  Implant tiny pickup coils in the neck, one per
fret/string in the middle of the fingerboard between each fret, right
under the string.  When a string is plucked, the coil nearest the nut
that gets an output is just in front of the finger position.
No need to get the pitch from this coil, just amplitude.

Problems... mighty complex ain't it ??? but with todays "rare earth"
magnets it should be possible. You could make a test unit from 20 G-Vox
pickups (the string spacing would be a little wide...) That's only $1000
in coils.... (LOL)

Idea #3  (possibly stupid...)  Use the "resistive fret" idea, and a 12
string guitar. Sense up the adjacent string pairs ??? Well I said it was
stupid...

OK Amigos... someone tell me that YOUR company makes just the piezos I
need for
2 bucks (whatever currency....?) each. Or you have a new breakthrough
capacitive sensor that would make the fretboard sensors a simple SMT
job....

Or YOU STAY UP ALL NIGHT AND COME UP WITH A BETTER IDEA.

I'm waiting... but I won't wait up all night (this time....)

H^)




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Tue May 23 05:35:05 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:35:05 EDT
Subject: Up all night was: guitar synth
Message-ID: <92.51cdba4.265b5669@aol.com>

Harry "Krishna" Bissell wrote:

<< Pre-bent strings are still a problem >>

EVERY note you ever try to play on a guitar is "pre-bent" to some extent.  
Furthermore, just by virtue of minute changes in finger pressure as you 
continue to hold the note, the pitch of the note is constantly in flux, even 
when the player is not intentionally bending or vibrato-ing (although those 
also certainly are important factors).  This, of course, is as it should be, 
and for a guitar synth to be truly successful (IMO), the synth's pitch should 
continuously follow all of these minute (and large) pitch changes.  MIDI is 
definitely a crappy way to do this, although most of the MIDI units try (by 
cramming the MIDI cable with six channels worth of spurious Pitch Bend 
messages).  I think a continuous analog pitch control signal is the better 
way to go.

Even notes played on open strings are not exempt from this, since the pitch 
of the string always shifts up a bit when you pluck it, then settles down 
into its "real" pitch - Just like a well-tuned tom-tom will, when you hit it 
hard (actually, this attack-bend phenomenon is usually even MORE apparent on 
open strings than on fretted notes).

I think a guitar synth should accurately interpret and reflect this stuff, 
and not try to mask it, if it is to really feel like a guitar to the player.

Michael B.




From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Tue May 23 09:31:15 2000
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:31:15 +0200
Subject: A little bit off-topic: Windows Theremin
Message-ID: <E61C254C1CE5D311B5950000F8CB39FF1E14A3@dumbo.kapsch.co.at>

Theremin Musical Instrument Utility
        Get musical accompaniment for your finger movement on your TouchPad.

Should also work with any mouse...
A windows software that simulates a Theremin.

http://www.synaptics.com/supp-driver-theramin.cfm

Have fun!

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: http://come.to/ullrich    or the full link
                   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
                   Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   .oooO           KAPSCH AG / ECCN                    Vienna / Austria
   (   )   Oooo.            Traffic Control and Transmission Technology
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Tue May 23 13:49:42 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:49:42 +0200
Subject: New VCO,linearity!
In-Reply-To: <005d01bfc3f7$78635f20$7f77143f@Studio1>
References: <20000522030135.78998.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000523134942.00959100@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 08:10 22.05.00 -0600, Ian Fritz wrote:

>Again -- personal choice. Some people have been happy using a differential
>pair converter without the compensation for the 1/T in the exponent. This is
>3300ppm/K. If you just throw in a tempco resistor this drops to the range of
>about 500-1000ppm/K, since the tempco is not exact compensation without
>trimming and because there are other sources of drift in the circuitry. Many
>people live with this level of drift, although it requires frequent
>retuning. I've been trying to do better mainly because it's an interesting
>technical challenge. It doesn't take too much work to get down to the
>200-400ppm/K level, but it takes some time and careful measurements.

I'd say we need to differentiate between different sources of "drift" here.

The first is the temperature dependant scale factor of the expo circuit.
In its uncompensated version it changes ~3300ppm/K, messing up your V/oct
setting, so any octave would become stretched/squashed by 0.33%/K. This can
be almost perfectly reduced by using a tempco (or some other means to
change the input to the expo). Having 1000ppm of drift in the expo
convertor is unacceptable IMO.
I think one can get this below the 100ppm margin with ease.

The second (and mostly never discussed) source is the drift of the current
controlled oscillator that inevitably follows the expo convertor. Here the
effect is to shift the oscillators frequency, while not affecting the V/oct
setting. So 1V stays an octave. Maybe you had tuned it to 440Hz and it
drifted to 480Hz, but the octave above that is 960Hz. So all you have to do
is to tune it again. Here 500-1000ppm are not that bad, all it requires is
to retune the instrument when it has warmed up, and a roughly constant
ambient temperature.

Bye,
 Ren?




-- 
my keyboard gets   | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
flakey so here are | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
the missing "M"s:  | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 




From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Tue May 23 14:06:36 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:06:36 GMT
Subject: New VCO,linearity!
Message-ID: <20000523120636.89314.qmail@hotmail.com>

Exactly what i ment, sorry for saying the VCO when i ment the ICO.
The ICO temp dependencies is somthing wery little discussed on the list.Temp 
dependencies can be adjusted aftervards but bad linearitys
is worser to deal with.

AP

>The second (and mostly never discussed) source is the drift of the >current 
>controlled oscillator that inevitably follows the expo >convertor. Here the 
>effect is to shift the oscillators frequency, >while not affecting the 
>V/oct setting. So 1V stays an octave. Maybe <you had tuned it to 440Hz and 
>it drifted to 480Hz, but the octave <above that is 960Hz. So all you have 
>to do is to tune it again. Here <500-1000ppm are not that bad, all it 
>requires is to retune the <instrument when it has warmed up, and a roughly 
>constant
<>ambient temperature.
>
>Bye,
>  Ren?

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Tue May 23 14:14:38 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:14:38 GMT
Subject: Latest version Orcad limitation check
Message-ID: <20000523121438.20793.qmail@hotmail.com>

Actually at my recent employer i tested a freware PCB design
software that was really simple and good, but it runned on a
MAC!!The Mack is fine since this PCB software runned on a wery
old MAC, like LCII 68030.So put all those old MACs back to work!!!

No, i dont remember the name of the software!

AP


>From: "Rob" <cyborg_0 at iquest.net>
>To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>, <PICLIST at MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Subject: Latest version Orcad limitation check
>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:31:28 -0500
>
>Just wanted to see if anyone has actually laid out a schematic, routed, and
>printed up a board with the latest version of Orcad Demo which I *think* is
>release 9.
>
>If so, I have a few questions.
>
>1) Was there any problems doing it?
>2) Could you actually layout a board of any size as long as it had less 
>than
>100 parts?
>
>The reason I am asking is that I dont feel like learning a new package and
>layout an entire board only to find I wasted my time because some weird
>limitation. I *obviously* dont have 2k usd to buy the thing and I certainly
>wont be making enough from it anytime soon to warrant me buying it. I just
>want to layout a few personal projects and one-offs for people.
>
>Thanx
>
>Rob
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From zimage at cs.wisc.edu  Tue May 23 19:01:40 2000
From: zimage at cs.wisc.edu (Tim Nowaczyk)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:01:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: other pcb software (Was: Latest version Orcad limitation check)
In-Reply-To: <20000523121438.20793.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96L.1000523115355.11361A-100000@nova31.cs.wisc.edu>

  I've recently discovered a piece of software called, simply, pcb.  It's for
linux, but will most likely run on NT, but you have to compile it yourself,
install Cygwin, install an NT X-server... it's a pain in the you know where.
It's free and customisable, if you know m4.  It hasn't been updated in a while,
but it does what I need it for.  If you have Linux and some free time to learn a
new PCB layout tool, then check it out.  
http://bach.ece.jhu.edu/~haceaton/pcb/  

 On Tue, 23 May 2000, Augusto Pinoche wrote:

> Actually at my recent employer i tested a freware PCB design
> software that was really simple and good, but it runned on a
> MAC!!The Mack is fine since this PCB software runned on a wery
> old MAC, like LCII 68030.So put all those old MACs back to work!!!
> 
> No, i dont remember the name of the software!
> 
> AP
> 
> 
> >From: "Rob" <cyborg_0 at iquest.net>
> >To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>, <PICLIST at MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
> >Subject: Latest version Orcad limitation check
> >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:31:28 -0500
> >
> >Just wanted to see if anyone has actually laid out a schematic, routed, and
> >printed up a board with the latest version of Orcad Demo which I *think* is
> >release 9.
> >
> >If so, I have a few questions.
> >
> >1) Was there any problems doing it?
> >2) Could you actually layout a board of any size as long as it had less 
> >than
> >100 parts?
> >
> >The reason I am asking is that I dont feel like learning a new package and
> >layout an entire board only to find I wasted my time because some weird
> >limitation. I *obviously* dont have 2k usd to buy the thing and I certainly
> >wont be making enough from it anytime soon to warrant me buying it. I just
> >want to layout a few personal projects and one-offs for people.
> >
> >Thanx
> >
> >Rob
> >
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 




From mirwin1 at istar.ca  Tue May 23 19:18:06 2000
From: mirwin1 at istar.ca (Mike I.)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:18:06 -0400
Subject: Patents and Copyrights
Message-ID: <392ABD4E.5EB8@istar.ca>

I had a conversation with a US patent lawyer recently. Apparently, if 
you publish and copyright an original idea, and subsequently wish to 
patent it, you have up to one year to apply for a patent after 
publication. Once the patent has been granted, you are able to take 
legal action against anyone who has used your idea for commercial 
purposes during the intervening period. Does anyone know anything more 
about this? Mike



From syntox at home.com  Tue May 23 19:24:13 2000
From: syntox at home.com (19 Productions)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:24:13 -0700
Subject: The sherman endwork project revealed...
References: <000701bfc43e$a0b69540$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org> <3929CEAB.C764FCFE@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <392ABEBC.632B8A4A@home.com>

4 the Mac  try "Metasynth".

Harry Bissell wrote:
> 
> Project Ideas ???
> 
> <blonde mode on>
> 
> "A Guitar Synth interface with Zero tracking delay ???"
> 
> <blonde mode off>
> 
> H^)
> 
> BTW you should check out Fractint (freeware fractal program) which has fractal
> audio
> capability. Use an internal sound card, up to 9 voices, user specifies scale,
> tempo, synth parameters....
> 
> If any of you software wizzes could port the output to the sound card MIDI output
> (or have it write std. midi to a file... I'd be happenin...
> 
> Roel Das wrote:
> 
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I talked to one of the guys that did their endwork for Sherman today. Their
> > assignement was: programming of a floating point DSP: videosynthesizer. The
> > DSP should take video images and get some audio out of it. (The other way
> > around is also possible, and would be a really cool show, I think...) They
> > didn't had the hardware to get in the video images, so they only finished
> > the software for the conversion of one still image, programmed in the DSP
> > memory with the computer.
> >
> > The way it sortof works: the image is divided into pixels. There are 180
> > lines. Each line represents a frequency, and the color sets the amplitude.
> > For example, a black line (max amplitude) on the bottom of a white page (min
> > amplitude) would result in a wave at the lowest frequency.
> >
> > >From what I understand, this means that the conversion goes from one side of
> > the image to the other side, and each line is a momentary image of the
> > frequency spectrum of the signal...
> >
> > It doesn't have alot of musical possibilities, but the sound could be very
> > inspiring, said the man. Maybe a nice random noise source, but quite
> > expensive, right?
> >
> > I've also moved the midiCV project site. The same address will now lead you
> > to a more complete site of my work. However, it's still under construction,
> > and there's nothing but a link to the midicv rpoject at the moment... One of
> > these days, I'll be putting pictures on it... Next week maybe...
> >
> > I'm putting together a working version of the midiCV for my presentation
> > next week. A working version of the software still has to be written. This
> > shouldn't be much of a problem, I've had every bit of the board working,
> > just need to put the parts together, and have the midi messages correctly
> > handled...
> >
> > Anyway, now you all know what sherman is up to. Last year I talked to
> > Sherman on the phone about a possible project for me, I could do the video
> > synth in Java if I wanted. I'm really glad I did the MIDI CV. And ytou've
> > all been a great help...
> >
> > And a good friend of mine is looking for an endwork project too (for next
> > year)... If anyone of you has a great idea, a project he can do for you, or
> > on his own, let me know!!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roel



From syntox at home.com  Tue May 23 19:31:36 2000
From: syntox at home.com (19 Productions)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:31:36 -0700
Subject: Harry's Rant was: Guitar synths (Don's rant)
References: <200005222053.NAA18954@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <392AC077.ABF00A75@home.com>

I've cajoled about this before with a friend as he has the VG-8
guitar system. It really wouldn't matter if it was a stick
with a wire
on it. All you're doing is triggering.
It has  synth, classical,
acoustic, basses and more! emulations.
No the synth does not sound too swell.
Even the Boss SY-B pedal sounds way better.
Chris Meyers
cm

Don Tillman wrote:
> 
>    Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:20:13 -0400
>    From: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> 
>    If you check out the V-Guitar system, they may be thinking along
>    these lines. Unfortunatly most of the effort seems to be make a
>    fender into a gibson... but some of the "synth" sounds are good,
>    and no delay.  This might approximate the waveshaping idea so that
>    the delay is eliminated...
> 
> I *think* the Roland V-Guitar system is simply a standard DSP-based
> effects unit, including pitch shifting and distortion, plus a digital
> filter to emulate body resonances and a hex digital filter to emulate
> the response of various pickup types and positions.
> 
> (The frequency response due to the pickup position and width is with
> respect to the wavelength on the string, so it has to be done
> seperately on each string.  Hence the hex pickup.)
> 
> It's interesting, but I don't think it's applicable to a guitar
> synthesizer.
> 
>   -- Don
> 
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California, USA
> don at till.com
> http://www.till.com



From twine_sound at hotmail.com  Tue May 23 22:26:42 2000
From: twine_sound at hotmail.com (Twine sound)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:26:42 CDT
Subject: Greetings to all on list: question
Message-ID: <20000523202642.87584.qmail@hotmail.com>

Hi, I'm chad, I'm new on the list.

I want to get into building filter banks, like the Sherman filter bank.  Is 
this very complicated.  I know some basic electronics.  I am teaching 
myself, what is a good book to get started.

I compose electronic music and I am very into the work of David Tudor, and 
his electronics.  I want to do work like this myself.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Chad

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Chad Mossholder
Twine/Twinesound Audio Productions
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
http://www.inneractions.com/twine
http://www.adastra-records.com
http://www.zero1media.com
http://www.mp3.com/twine
http://pulserecords.com/twine
330.677.8332
twinesound at hotmail.com
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From twine_sound at hotmail.com  Tue May 23 22:52:19 2000
From: twine_sound at hotmail.com (Twine sound)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:52:19 CDT
Subject: Greetings to all on list: question
Message-ID: <20000523205219.40281.qmail@hotmail.com>

Hi, I'm chad, I'm new on the list.

I want to get into building filter banks, like the Sherman filter bank.  Is 
this very complicated.  I know some basic electronics.  I am teaching 
myself, what is a good book to get started.

I compose electronic music and I am very into the work of David Tudor, and 
his electronics.  I want to do work like this myself.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Chad

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Chad Mossholder
Twine/Twinesound Audio Productions
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
http://www.inneractions.com/twine
http://www.adastra-records.com
http://www.zero1media.com
http://www.mp3.com/twine
http://pulserecords.com/twine
330.677.8332
twinesound at hotmail.com
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 23 22:59:52 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:59:52 -0700
Subject: Quick question on Panasonic BBDs
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18DC@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Question on the Panasonic BBD chips: How fast can these little buggers be
clocked at? Can it go as high as ~150KHz?


Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Tue May 23 23:14:32 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:14:32 +0100
Subject: Greetings to all on list: question
References: <20000523202642.87584.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000801bfc4fb$e8076f60$f81b883e@default>

Hi Chad and all,

>I want to get into building filter banks, like the Sherman filter bank.

Why not have a look at my VCF-1?

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/vcf.htm

Full schematics and PCB available.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm










From thudson at tomy.net  Wed May 24 01:06:47 2000
From: thudson at tomy.net (thudson at tomy.net)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:06:47 -0400
Subject: OT: Safety
Message-ID: <392B0F07.32779AE1@tomy.net>


I've just returned from Greenville, SC where I attended the
funeral of a close friend. He was absolutely one of the best
bass players I have ever heard, and definitely the best I
ever had the pleasure to play with. A cross between Victor
Wooten and the Flea.

He was only 36 years old. His house caught on fire and though
the firefighters got there in time to save the exterior,
most of the interior was gutted by the fire. Chuck was asleep
at the time and died of smoke inhalation. Had he had a smoke 
detector in his house, he would probably still be with us.

If you don't have smoke detectors, go out right now and
buy some. If you do, go check your batteries.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm a little stunned right now,
this seems like such a senseless loss.


Tomy



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed May 24 02:54:58 2000
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:54:58 -0600
Subject: Patents and Copyrights
References: <392ABD4E.5EB8@istar.ca>
Message-ID: <003601bfc51a$b0495240$ea8d143f@Studio1>

Mike --

True in the US, but international is different. That's why there is always
so much contradictory information posted whenever this topic comes up.

  Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike I." <mirwin1 at istar.ca>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:18 AM
Subject: Patents and Copyrights


> I had a conversation with a US patent lawyer recently. Apparently, if
> you publish and copyright an original idea, and subsequently wish to
> patent it, you have up to one year to apply for a patent after
> publication. Once the patent has been granted, you are able to take
> legal action against anyone who has used your idea for commercial
> purposes during the intervening period. Does anyone know anything more
> about this? Mike
>




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed May 24 04:43:52 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:43:52 -0400
Subject: Up all night was: guitar synth
References: <92.51cdba4.265b5669@aol.com>
Message-ID: <392B41E8.583087D8@prodigy.net>

This is true...  I tune a little 'flat' and some band members will say... hey
you're flat.
I tell 'em "once I start pounding this thing for real, I WILL NOT be flat anymore
!"

OTOH... If I'm playing a piano patch, I want it quantized, and no "pitch bend"
thanks...

In order to feel like a real guitar to me, it has to do everything I want it to
do, whenever I
want to do it...

That'd work for  spouses too... eh ???

H^)

WeAreAs1 at aol.com wrote:

> Harry "Krishna" Bissell wrote:
>
> << Pre-bent strings are still a problem >>
>
> EVERY note you ever try to play on a guitar is "pre-bent" to some extent.
> Furthermore, just by virtue of minute changes in finger pressure as you
> continue to hold the note, the pitch of the note is constantly in flux, even
> when the player is not intentionally bending or vibrato-ing (although those
> also certainly are important factors).  This, of course, is as it should be,
> and for a guitar synth to be truly successful (IMO), the synth's pitch should
> continuously follow all of these minute (and large) pitch changes.  MIDI is
> definitely a crappy way to do this, although most of the MIDI units try (by
> cramming the MIDI cable with six channels worth of spurious Pitch Bend
> messages).  I think a continuous analog pitch control signal is the better
> way to go.
>
> Even notes played on open strings are not exempt from this, since the pitch
> of the string always shifts up a bit when you pluck it, then settles down
> into its "real" pitch - Just like a well-tuned tom-tom will, when you hit it
> hard (actually, this attack-bend phenomenon is usually even MORE apparent on
> open strings than on fretted notes).
>
> I think a guitar synth should accurately interpret and reflect this stuff,
> and not try to mask it, if it is to really feel like a guitar to the player.
>
> Michael B.




From farky at ix.netcom.com  Wed May 24 07:06:59 2000
From: farky at ix.netcom.com (farky)
Date: Tue, 23 May 00 22:06:59 -0700
Subject: Up all night was: guitar synth
Message-ID: <200005240505.BAA20177@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

I just have to jump into this guitar-synth thread.  Disclaimer: I'm going 
to seem awful serious and wolf-like.

Are you guys sure you want the guitar synth to feel like a guitar?  Maybe 
what you want is infinitely fast tracking.  I can't imagine the nuances 
being electronically converted.  What does a pinch harmonic translate to 
synth-wise?  How about scraping your pick?  Do you want the weird pitches 
that come from a scrape to all be converted to pitches?  Let's say you 
transfer all the pickup vibrations into electrically useful data.  Will 
it be musical, even though it responds to every nuance?  

It seems like all the guitarists basically want an electronic guitar.  It 
also seems to them(us?)that the guitaristic cliches are important to 
preserve.  I want a synth that tracks pitch lightning fast and sounds 
absolutely nothing like a guitar.  I also want something that sounds 
absolutely unlike a synthesizer.  My observation is that the most 
successful synth-guitarists (belew, reid, fripp) don't care about the 
feel of the instrument being preserved but treat it as a new instrument.  
Belew doesn't give a crap about tracking.

It's been a really interesting thread because I'm currently building a 
guitar synth.  Should we have a separate site for this speculation or 
maybe a separate list?  Surely it could be filled with information.  And 
the  problems we've discussed will eventually be solved.

toby






From efm3 at mediaone.net  Wed May 24 08:15:18 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:15:18 -0700
Subject: DIY CD
Message-ID: <000e01bfc547$73e06960$0100a8c0@homenet>

Hello My Friends,

It is now possible to compile a DIY CD. As a matter of fact I have done
just that over the past weekend. Acrobat 4.0 grabs entire web sites
and turns them into pdfs. It follows the links and opens existing pdfs so
they are included in the new document. It does exclude zips, waves and
mp3s. So I packed my cable modem in dry ice and hit the web. The 
first place I went was the DIY archive. WOW! I never realized how much
has been collected there. The pfd is over 130Meg! Anders' site weighed
in at about 80Meg. It's so cool to have all those pdfs open at once! 
Kevin's place was over 50 and EFM was a pitiful 14Meg. The CD will
include complete text listings of the DIY gray pages...if released and
anything else you guys want.

Anyway. I have no intention of releasing this without permission. So if
you would like your site included on a basically free DIY-CD please
drop me a note. The price will be $5.00 s&h included or $2.00 s&h
included if you contribute a site. 

The cool thing..the thing that might make this work is all of the links are
preserved within the pdf so clicking on a link opens the browser and
contacts it's home site. So it's really just an extension of the internet. If
you think of it this way it makes it easier to contribute your site.

DO NOT!! Contact me for a copy of this yet. I won't answer until
all included sites have given permission. I DO WANT TO HEAR
from contributors. PLEASE!

Here is an example capture of the EFM1 mirror in Australia....

http://www.geocities.com/efm_gc/pdf/efm1.pdf

Let's burn some CD's!

Tom









From don at till.com  Wed May 24 09:14:19 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:14:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Up all night was: guitar synth
In-Reply-To: <200005240505.BAA20177@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> (message from
	farky on Tue, 23 May 00 22:06:59 -0700)
Message-ID: <200005240714.AAA01209@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Tue, 23 May 00 22:06:59 -0700
   From: farky <farky at ix.netcom.com>

My opinions...

   Are you guys sure you want the guitar synth to feel like a guitar? 

Roughly, yes.

   Maybe what you want is infinitely fast tracking. 

Yes, absolutely.  Do you accept a delay in any other instrument?
(Besides Carillon Bells?)

   I can't imagine the nuances being electronically converted.  
   What does a pinch harmonic translate to synth-wise?  
   How about scraping your pick?  

Anything that's got some potential musical use.  You make funny noises
on a guitar, you make funny noises on a synth; what's the issue?

   Do you want the weird pitches that come from a scrape to all be
   converted to pitches?  

I see your point; you've got a VCO which is supposed to put out an
accurate frequency but it's busy trying to track some mechanical noise
that is without a discernable pitch.  Some funky cross-modulation-like
sound from the VCO would be fine.

   It seems like all the guitarists basically want an electronic
   guitar.  It also seems to them(us?)that the guitaristic cliches are
   important to preserve.

No, I want a guitar synth that's *something* like an electric guitar.
Just like an electric guitar is something like an acoustic guitar.
You don't approach an electric guitar anything like an acoustic
guitar, but the playing skills are somewhat similiar.

When you think about it, guitarists have been working toward a guitar
synth for a long time now on their own.  Is a pile of a dozen stomp
boxes all that different from a modular synth?  Listen to some of
Frank Zappa's live guitar solos where he goes through at least three
chains of effects boxes in parallel, each with some combination of
distortion, octave divider, auto wah, flange, whatever.  Frank treats
this mess a lot more like a synthesizer than like a guitar.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From neil.johnson at camcon.co.uk  Wed May 24 09:40:25 2000
From: neil.johnson at camcon.co.uk (neil.johnson at camcon.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:40:25 +0100
Subject: OT: Safety
Message-ID: <802568E9.0029EF86.00@CambridgeUk-G01.camcon.co.uk>



Tomy,

Firstly, I'm very sorry to hear of your loss.  I know how you feel (having lost
a close friend in a motorcycle accident).

Secondly, safety is NEVER off-topic: we should all be aware of our own safety,
especially so here where we build electronic gadgets that, mostly, plug into the
mains and/or involve high-voltages.  Life is a delicate thing - it doesn't take
too much to tip the balance.

May everyone have a nice, enjoyable and safe summer.

Happy building!

Neil
------
+======================================================+
|     Neil Johnson                   MSc CEng MIEE     |
|         http://members.xoom.com/Neil_Johnson         |
|"I can hardly speak for myself, let alone my employer"|
+======================================================+





From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed May 24 10:41:54 2000
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:41:54 +0100 (BST)
Subject: 3046 BURNOUT
Message-ID: <20000524084154.29804.qmail@web1001.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm still trying to work out a way to use standard 1
amp regulators ( 7812's) as opposed to the 500mA (
78M12's) as used in the Moog Prodigy. In the osc
'heated chip' section, the use of 1 amp types, causes
the LM3046 to blow...
Any help here would be apprecciated...
Regards to all, Ken McBeth

____________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie



From czech at Micronas.Com  Wed May 24 10:57:21 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:57:21 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: guitar synth
Message-ID: <200005240857.KAA09163@ikarus.intermetall.de>

All this guitar synth raving...

I played this axon thing at Frankfurt music fair, I thought:  damn well
done.  But so what? If I use an organ preset, it will sound like organ,
or piano, etc. If that's what I need I can play an organ or piano in
the first place.  Maybe that's because I'm able to play keys as well
(or bad) as strings...

If you listen to recordings from Jan Hammer e.g., you'll notice that
he can make a keyboard sound much like an E-guitar. Not because of the
waveform or anything, just because he imitates the playing style. Playing
style is very important, wave form etc. comes second.

(This works like those artists who can imitate Mr. Clinton, or Mr. Schroeder,
their voice will not sound much like the real one, but their style
of speaking does.)

You'll have to imitate the bending, the vibrato and the prefered scales
and licks as well.

Get home and exercicse instead looking for not working technical
solutions ;->

I do not see much use in guitar to something converters.  Maybe this is
because I'm into crunch and high gain sounds.  What could be more fun
then playing into a good tube amp at high gain?

Only one thing would be interesting to me:

individual pick ups , one for each string. Like distortion without
intermodulation.

Has anybody seen an audio hex pickup (not piezo)?

m.c.




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Wed May 24 10:58:50 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 01:58:50 -0700
Subject: Up all night was: guitar synth
References: <200005240505.BAA20177@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <000701bfc55e$6532f7e0$0100a8c0@homenet>

Nah! It says Synth-DIY. Guitar-Synth = Synth....build it yourself =
DIY = Synth-DIY...;-)

And yes clich?s are important if you want to ape (synthesize)
keyboard or other musical instruments....;-)

Tom



> It's been a really interesting thread because I'm currently building a
> guitar synth.  Should we have a separate site for this speculation or
> maybe a separate list?  Surely it could be filled with information.  And
> the  problems we've discussed will eventually be solved.
>
> toby
>
>
>




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed May 24 11:22:28 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:22:28 +1000
Subject: 3046 BURNOUT
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000524092228.00e9daec@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 09:41 AM 24/05/00 +0100, Ken MacBeth  wrote:
>I'm still trying to work out a way to use standard 1
>amp regulators ( 7812's) as opposed to the 500mA (
>78M12's) as used in the Moog Prodigy. In the osc
>'heated chip' section, the use of 1 amp types, causes
>the LM3046 to blow...

Something must be wrong with the ckt, because it
would be VERY BAD practice to rely on the regulators 
to act as current limiters in any way!! True, the 78 
regulator series have automatic cutoff when they overheat,
but you would never put together a circuit relying on this.

The LM3406 must be sucking too much current, for some reason,
nothing to do with the regulator as such.

paul perry melbourne australia




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Wed May 24 13:40:06 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 04:40:06 -0700
Subject: DIY CD
References: <000e01bfc547$73e06960$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <002901bfc574$d05d0ae0$0100a8c0@homenet>


I was just going to make a few more points before turning in but
there has been a lot of activity already and it's 4 o'clock! It looks 
like a lot of you guys are really into this. So far....

Me - EFM1,2 and 3 + unposted scans...
Tom May
Jim Patchell 
Peter Ullrich
Corneel

Thank you for your sites and a special thanks to Paul Schreiber for 
contributing his excellent SYNTHESIS TECHNOLOGY site and
all those wonderful data sheets! Thanks Paul.

Now if we can just get those guys who put all that stuff up on the
DIY archive to phone in!..;-)

Ok..to my points.....

I can remove anything from your site capture you don't want on the
CD. Tell me and it will be done. It is my intention to capture the site
completely but I know some have personal pages stashed in there 
and maybe other stuff you don't want in a public database.

If someone would supply the space I'll be glad to post an ISO
CD image. So it will be truly free to those who can handle a 650
Meg download and burn their own cd.  Anybody got 650Meg
to spare? I'm not kidding! 

Tom (gnight)


 














From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed May 24 13:42:33 2000
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:42:33 +0100 (BST)
Subject: FS Fostex B16
Message-ID: <20000524114233.20722.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com>

To anyone interested, I've got a nice condition Fostex
B16 sixteen track tape recorder plus original box for
sale, and eight half inch Ampex 456 tapes. There's
also a large loom.
This thing weighs a ton! So buyer collects/pays for
transport etc. I'm offering it for 480 UKP Sterling.
I would prefer to sell this in the UK

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie



From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Wed May 24 13:44:50 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:44:50 +0200
Subject: guitar synth
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01FA4231@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Martin Czech [SMTP:czech at Micronas.Com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, May 24, 2000 10:57 AM
> To:	synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject:	Re: guitar synth
> 
> 
> > individual pick ups , one for each string. Like distortion without
> > intermodulation.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny enough, as a non-guitar player, this (the artefacts) is for what
> I envy you (the guitar players) the most.
> 
> That's why I sometimes play organ into distortion devices, rather than 
> a buzzy synth sound. I like the artefacts that come from legato
playing. A distorded minor second sounds great when it only lasts
a few milliseconds !

> And that's why I play a VL7 (with a *clean* guitar sound) thru the HiFli:
> I like the interactions of a non-perfect tone with nonlinear devices.
> Just when the VL7's fake guitar sound with finite sustain has *almost*
> faded below the noise, and the compressor still boosts both signal and
> noise to a level where the HiFli's distortion works - that's where the
> fun really starts.
> I whished I had the duophonic VL1 instead, to get the phrasing
> of "dirty" transitions bewtween notes from separate strings as well !
> 
> Meanwhile, the following is a good surrogate: I play the clean guitar
> sound into the VL7's internal echo effect, with high feedback gain
> (10 ... 20 echoes). Then the output of the echo goes into the
> HiFli and is compressed and distorted there. Each time I play a new
> note, the compressor pushes the echoes into the background, and
I get a rather "clean" and singing distortion. But as the volume
> of the dominating note fades (or when I play nore notes in legato mode),
> the echo starts to play a role in the distortion and the sound becomes
> more dirty.
> 
> Ok, the HiFli is not really a guitar synthesizer, but a set of more or
> less ordinary guitar effects. But it also has envelope detectors
> which generate trigger signals for synthesized envelopes, and the
> sub octave generator is closer to a pitch detector than to a simple
> frequency divider. 
> 
> Bottom line: Even though I'm not a guitar player, I enjoy the various
> possibilities of guitar synth related processing - but I agree with
> Martin: Playing an organ or piano sound from a stringed instrument
> must be boring for sure.
> 
> JH.
> 
> 



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Wed May 24 13:54:00 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 04:54:00 -0700
Subject: DIY CD
References: <000e01bfc547$73e06960$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <003d01bfc576$c3211040$0100a8c0@homenet>


One more thing...The example capture of  EFM1 is the entire site
minus the wave and zip files. Careful it's 2.5Meg.

Just thought I would mention that....

Tom ( now really...gnight...;-)




From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed May 24 13:54:54 2000
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:54:54 +0100 (BST)
Subject: 3046 
Message-ID: <20000524115454.26627.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com>

Paul, I've been building Prodigy oscillators for some
time now. They are a great building block for more
sophisticated designs, and extremely close to the
minimoog mk2 oscillators. The nice bit is that you
don't need to go hunting around for TC resistors to
keep them stable. Problem is though, any time I use
the 1A regulators, the transistor oven blows. Someone
once suggested to me that while 3046 is cold, it will
drag to much current from the 1A regulator and then
blow. The bit that blows by the way is only the
heating element. The rest works fine. Are you familiar
with this circuit? I think it's at Anders Spontons'
site. i've actually been looking at designing an LM723
based PSU for future projects, as I only have a few of
the now obsolete LM79M12's left.

____________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
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From anders.sponton at swipnet.se  Wed May 24 14:18:29 2000
From: anders.sponton at swipnet.se (Anders Sponton)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:18:29 +0200
Subject: 3046
References: <20000524115454.26627.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <392BC895.42A2FB9E@swipnet.se>

Ken MacBeth wrote:
> 
> Paul, I've been building Prodigy oscillators for some
> time now. They are a great building block for more
> sophisticated designs, and extremely close to the
> minimoog mk2 oscillators. The nice bit is that you
> don't need to go hunting around for TC resistors to
> keep them stable. Problem is though, any time I use
> the 1A regulators, the transistor oven blows. Someone
> once suggested to me that while 3046 is cold, it will
> drag to much current from the 1A regulator and then
> blow. The bit that blows by the way is only the
> heating element. The rest works fine. Are you familiar
> with this circuit? I think it's at Anders Spontons'
> site. i've actually been looking at designing an LM723
> based PSU for future projects, as I only have a few of
> the now obsolete LM79M12's left.
> 

The best PSU I ever had found for synth work is the one in Elektor
Formant PArt1. 2x15V + 5V.
723-based with series powertrannies.

Anders, Sweden



From czech at Micronas.Com  Wed May 24 14:46:13 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:46:13 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: guitar synth
Message-ID: <200005241246.OAA09457@ikarus.intermetall.de>

:::> > individual pick ups , one for each string. Like distortion without
:::> > intermodulation.
:::> 
:::> 
:::> 
:::> Funny enough, as a non-guitar player, this (the artefacts) is for what
:::> I envy you (the guitar players) the most.

Of course. And since it would make such a big difference it would be
justified to have 6 individual pick ups and amps (cheap, of course). 

:::> possibilities of guitar synth related processing - but I agree with
:::> Martin: Playing an organ or piano sound from a stringed instrument
:::> must be boring for sure.

Thank you very much!

m.c.




From czech at Micronas.Com  Wed May 24 15:15:24 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:15:24 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: 3046 
Message-ID: <200005241315.PAA09483@ikarus.intermetall.de>

Do you remember my experiments with the temperature chamber?  It is by far
overdimensioned, thus the heater can not blow.  It is impossible, because
the PSU can not deliver so much power.  This is the easy way. I don't
have to worry at all. If you want oxygen and fuel hoses not to be eroneously 
interchanged (BOUMMM), make it impossible via connection shape.  The japanese 
method.


In the case of an 3046 immortality is not so easy to buy.  Any kind of
such heater regulation MUST ENSURE AN UPPER LIMIT FOR TRANSITOR HEATER
POWER CONSUMPTION. This is because any kind of servo loop will get into
nonlinear saturation at start up, the I part must be killed then and
the sensor must limit the actual temperature to a safe limit.  I.e. if
the temp goes over that limit, switch the heater off.  If sensor and
heater are too far away, the actual heater temp could differ. In this
case current/voltage has to be measured to ensure power limitation 
any point of time. Since circuits need some time to settle after start
up, there must be some kind of POR that keeps things OFF as long as the
protection circuits are not effective.


Every circuit design that misses that kind of SOA limit is a failure.


m.c.

:::Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:54:54 +0100 (BST)
:::From: Ken MacBeth <macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk>
:::Subject: Re: 3046 
:::To: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
:::Cc: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
:::Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
:::
:::Paul, I've been building Prodigy oscillators for some
:::time now. They are a great building block for more
:::sophisticated designs, and extremely close to the
:::minimoog mk2 oscillators. The nice bit is that you
:::don't need to go hunting around for TC resistors to
:::keep them stable. Problem is though, any time I use
:::the 1A regulators, the transistor oven blows. Someone
:::once suggested to me that while 3046 is cold, it will
:::drag to much current from the 1A regulator and then
:::blow. The bit that blows by the way is only the
:::heating element. The rest works fine. Are you familiar
:::with this circuit? I think it's at Anders Spontons'
:::site. i've actually been looking at designing an LM723
:::based PSU for future projects, as I only have a few of
:::the now obsolete LM79M12's left.
:::
:::____________________________________________________________
:::Do You Yahoo!?
:::Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
:::or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie




From skin_job at hotmail.com  Wed May 24 16:39:50 2000
From: skin_job at hotmail.com (skinny bastard)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:39:50 GMT
Subject: parts
Message-ID: <20000524143950.96149.qmail@hotmail.com>

as far as the tl-072 goes, which is probably the one I should be ordering: 
8-SOP or 8-DIP
________________________________________________________________________
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From skin_job at hotmail.com  Wed May 24 17:36:28 2000
From: skin_job at hotmail.com (skinny bastard)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:36:28 GMT
Subject: parts
Message-ID: <20000524153628.44780.qmail@hotmail.com>

Thank you everyone. I am now illuminated. ;)
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From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Wed May 24 17:50:47 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:50:47 GMT
Subject: 3046 BURNOUT
Message-ID: <20000524155047.74689.qmail@hotmail.com>

Exactly, in the oven cirquit you always
have a current limiting resistor, this resistor
limits the current drawn thru the oven and
the current source, in this case your regulator.

Nor the oven or the regulator should Burn out
if it does you have to redesign your oven
or current supply since there is  somthing faulty.

AP

There is no need to drive the oven above
50 degreees celsius


>From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
>To: Ken MacBeth <macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk>
>CC: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
>Subject: Re: 3046 BURNOUT
>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:22:28 +1000
>
>At 09:41 AM 24/05/00 +0100, Ken MacBeth  wrote:
> >I'm still trying to work out a way to use standard 1
> >amp regulators ( 7812's) as opposed to the 500mA (
> >78M12's) as used in the Moog Prodigy. In the osc
> >'heated chip' section, the use of 1 amp types, causes
> >the LM3046 to blow...
>
>Something must be wrong with the ckt, because it
>would be VERY BAD practice to rely on the regulators
>to act as current limiters in any way!! True, the 78
>regulator series have automatic cutoff when they overheat,
>but you would never put together a circuit relying on this.
>
>The LM3406 must be sucking too much current, for some reason,
>nothing to do with the regulator as such.
>
>paul perry melbourne australia
>

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From patchell at silcom.com  Wed May 24 18:30:17 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:30:17 -0700
Subject: parts
References: <20000524143950.96149.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <392C0399.95C8CAD2@silcom.com>

    Generally you would want the DIP (Dual Inline Package), as this has pins
which are easy to mount on both bread boards and PC boards.  The SOP is a
surface mount package.  They are not too awful to put on PC boards, but are
pretty useless for most bread boarding techniques.

    -Jim

skinny bastard wrote:

> as far as the tl-072 goes, which is probably the one I should be ordering:
> 8-SOP or 8-DIP
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Wed May 24 19:32:51 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:32:51 EDT
Subject: guitar synth
Message-ID: <84.5acb3e7.265d6c43@aol.com>

JH wrote:

<< That's why I sometimes play organ into distortion devices,
 rather than  a buzzy synth sound. I like the artefacts that come 
from legato playing. A distorded minor second sounds great when 
it only lasts a few milliseconds !  >>


Yes!  A great example of this sound is the great organ solo in Traffic's "The 
Low Spark of High-Heeled Boys".

Michael Bacich



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Wed May 24 21:19:41 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:19:41 +0100
Subject: 3046 
References: <20000524115454.26627.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001401bfc5b8$7cbeda00$195f883e@default>

Hi Ken and all,

Three things come to mind here. Why not use a power resistor in series
with the 3046's supply, which would limit the voltage sufficiently to
not take it above its maximum power disipation? It might take a little
longer to warm up though. The 723 IC is the best way of course. You can
program a current limit, and even include a little foldback to stop the
regulator overheating. You could even include the 723 into the 3046
heater design. That way you have regulator and heater control in one.
Another way is to use a second three terminal regulator configured as a
current limit.

I'm happy with the Mini's VCO with just a temp co. 'Warms up' faster and
takes less current too. For my version see:

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/vco.htm

BTW: The Prodigy VCO is based on the mark 3 MiniMoog circuit, although
the expo in the Prodigy uses a heated 3046 type, cf the Mini's uA726.
The Mark 2 used 3046s in the expo, but the core is discrete. The Mark 1
is all discrete, including the op-amp summing circuit.

I only looked at the prodigy circuit yesterday. I was suprised to see
that the Prodigy used the Mark 3 Mini circuit with a few changes. The
reset circuit is subtley different, and the expo, but thats about it.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm








From skin_job at hotmail.com  Wed May 24 21:30:08 2000
From: skin_job at hotmail.com (skinny bastard)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:30:08 GMT
Subject: keyboard interference
Message-ID: <20000524193008.77291.qmail@hotmail.com>

In building a case for my homemade keyboard, I was wondering:
Which would I have the most problems with as far as interference/noise?
A metal case, or a wooden one. Does anyone have any other reservations 
against either type?
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From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Wed May 24 21:53:48 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:53:48 GMT
Subject: OT: working in the music industry
Message-ID: <20000524195348.74922.qmail@hotmail.com>

Some time ago there was some discussions
about how it was to work in the electronic
field as an ingeneur or designer etc, there
was some issues that was raised.

Some years ago those issues was up again and there
was someone who was tierd of being hired and fired
every two months, he was working for Ensoniq writing
software for the Ensoniq keyboards,
if i can recall this right.

Another case is the dude who did the ASR-X
machine for Ensoniq and suddenly was fierd for as
it seams to no reason at all, whit some other 20
dudes of the engineering department!

And the last thing i heard about Ensoniq was the DSP
engineer who made the signal synthesis algos for ensoniqs
effect boxes was sued by Ensoniq for some paper that was
published!!

In some ways it seams that Ensoniq is no god employer!

Then we have the idiotic behavior of the CEO of Gibson
who main purpose is to kill Opcode as much as he possibly
can, as far i have heard that hassle is still not solved!!

Then we have the stories about how companies was
more or less stolen,like Tom Oberheims, etc.

Some of you have or still do work for some of the
brand names in this electronic industry as engineers
techs etc etc, it would be interesting to know what is
your experience of working in the music industry!

Has the Music industry been taken over by the
economist in suits as the telecom and internet
field has been?

AP
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From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Wed May 24 21:57:06 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:57:06 GMT
Subject: BBD
Message-ID: <20000524195706.38862.qmail@hotmail.com>

How about doing a physical modelling oscillator
model out of a BBD like SAD512 ,TDA1022,MN3004 etc.

You could do that by using it as a standard
delay, or why not do a combfilter of it!!

A LPF at the end of it, a feedback path,
and you have basic Karplus/strong module!

Wouldent that be interesting?

AP
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From sdcurtin at lucent.com  Wed May 24 22:44:14 2000
From: sdcurtin at lucent.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:44:14 -0400
Subject: working in the music industry
Message-ID: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1DD8@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com>

Some background on these items...

> Some years ago those issues was up again and there
> was someone who was tierd of being hired and fired
> every two months, he was working for Ensoniq writing
> software for the Ensoniq keyboards,
> if i can recall this right.
> 
This was me.  It was actually more like every three years.   All the MI
places I've ever worked (including Opcode) are either defunkt or in much
smaller spaces.  Working for Lucent seems to have paid off, when my project
gets cancelled I can just find work in another part of Lucent.

> Another case is the dude who did the ASR-X
> machine for Ensoniq and suddenly was fierd for as
> it seams to no reason at all, whit some other 20
> dudes of the engineering department!
> 
Yes, there were two big layoffs, I was part of the first one.  The second
one took out the rest of the music engineers from what I hear.

> And the last thing i heard about Ensoniq was the DSP
> engineer who made the signal synthesis algos for ensoniqs
> effect boxes was sued by Ensoniq for some paper that was
> published!!
> 
The was Jon Dattorro.  There was a case for his supposedly publishing
algorithms that were considered by Ensoniq to be trade secrets.    

> In some ways it seams that Ensoniq is no good employer!
> 
Ensoniq is a great company and it was a pleasure to work for them.  The top
management has had to make some tough decisions to keep the whole company
going at all.

They are no longer making music equipment, they were bought by Creative and
now all of the "Ensoniq" equipment is being made by E-Mu, according to a
recent article in Electronic Musician.  

> Has the Music industry been taken over by the
> economist in suits as the telecom and internet
> field has been?
> 
The reason for this is more of a basic sea change in the industry, of the
electronic music capabilities creeping out of the special-purpose keyboards
and into general purpose PCs.  Notice how much enphasis is placed in
Keyboard magazine on plugins for editing programs now.  For this reason
Ensoniq is now Creative East, a multimedia company.  

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at lucent.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







From patchell at silcom.com  Thu May 25 00:23:49 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:23:49 -0700
Subject: OT: working in the music industry
References: <20000524195348.74922.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <392C5675.C8004342@silcom.com>



Augusto Pinoche wrote:

> Some time ago there was some discussions
> about how it was to work in the electronic
> field as an ingeneur or designer etc, there
> was some issues that was raised.
>

    The closest I ever got to working in the Music Industry, was when I
interveiwed for Sequential Circuits.  They were a nice bunch of dudes, but
the guy that interveiwed me sort of scared me.  One of the questions he
asked (in fact, the only question I can remember from back then) was "Do you
actually know how to design analog circuits or do you just fiddle with them
till they work?".  He explained the question by stating that that was how
the P5 was done by him.  I never got the job (was never made an offer) but
had decided when I walked out the door that maybe working there might not be
a good idea.

> Has the Music industry been taken over by the
> economist in suits as the telecom and internet
> field has been?
>
> AP

    -Jim





From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu May 25 00:29:54 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:29:54 +0200
Subject: Up all night was: guitar synth
References: <200005240714.AAA01209@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <00fc01bfc5cf$9674c380$0400a8c0@Theo>

> Yes, absolutely.  Do you accept a delay in any other instrument?
> (Besides Carillon Bells?)
> 
Has a Carillion a delay?? never noticed it while playing.
There are some playing styles to mimic playing chords,
maybe this sounds like delay to you. 

Cheers Theo





From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Thu May 25 00:57:08 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:57:08 GMT
Subject: working in the music industry
Message-ID: <20000524225708.88424.qmail@hotmail.com>

>steve curtin wrote:

>Some background on these items...
>
> > Some years ago those issues was up again and there
> > was someone who was tierd of being hired and fired
> > every two months, he was working for Ensoniq writing
> > software for the Ensoniq keyboards,
> > if i can recall this right.
> >
>This was me.  It was actually more like every three years.   All the MI 
> >places I've ever worked (including Opcode) are either defunkt or in much 
>smaller spaces.  Working for Lucent seems to have paid off, when my project 
>gets cancelled I can just find work in another part of Lucent.

So you say that you was employed and fired, emploed and
fired and employed and finaley fired again??
Now that is strange behaviour by the management!!

> > Another case is the dude who did the ASR-X
> > machine for Ensoniq and suddenly was fierd for as
> > it seams to no reason at all, whit some other 20
> > dudes of the engineering department!
> >
>Yes, there were two big layoffs, I was part of the first one.  The second 
>one took out the rest of the music engineers from what I hear.

Quite strange behavior (again) from the management i must say,
first they fired you, then they employed this dude who
made the ASR and then some months later they fired him too!!!
Maybe there is a natural explenation! ;-)!

> > And the last thing i heard about Ensoniq was the DSP
> > engineer who made the signal synthesis algos for ensoniqs
> > effect boxes was sued by Ensoniq for some paper that was
> > published!!
> >
>The was Jon Dattorro.  There was a case for his supposedly publishing
>algorithms that were considered by Ensoniq to be trade secrets.

Yepp thats right!
So who lost the issue, Ensoniq or Dattoro?

> > In some ways it seams that Ensoniq is no good employer!
> >
>Ensoniq is a great company and it was a pleasure to work for them.  >The 
>top management has had to make some tough decisions to keep the >whole 
>company going at all.

Interesting,If the top management had to do some tought decisions
just to keep the company going then there is usually a bad management
that is my experience from both startuppers and usuall long timers.
In 95% of the cases a company going bad is by bad decisions
made by the managenet. Besides it "was" a great company!!

Still its interesting to see that Ensoniq made a keyboard
called Fizmo quite late since they seamed to have fired
the enginers allready?

>They are no longer making music equipment, they were bought by >Creative 
>and now all of the "Ensoniq" equipment is being made by >E-Mu, according to 
>a recent article in Electronic Musician.

Its little strange then to know that Emu is looking for
people when Ensoniq fierd the entire enginering department!
Would be wery easy for Emu/Creative to just call the
fired Ensoniq people up!

> > Has the Music industry been taken over by the
> > economist in suits as the telecom and internet
> > field has been?
> >
>The reason for this is more of a basic sea change in the industry, of >the 
>electronic music capabilities creeping out of the special-purpose 
> >keyboards  and into general purpose PCs.  Notice how much enphasis is 
> >placed in Keyboard magazine on plugins for editing programs now.  For 
>this reason
>Ensoniq is now Creative East, a multimedia company.

Yes thats a part of the truth, and using the PC whit BillGates crapware 
dosent improwe the musicans situation alot!

Another interesting issue is how badly runed Eventide is,
no one at the stering weel for the audio dev department
after Orvilles death as the gossips are saying!

Doesent you folks just love gossips, particulare
when there is some real stuff into them!!  >;->

AP
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From edusilva at bahianet.com.br  Thu May 25 00:57:49 2000
From: edusilva at bahianet.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:57:49 -0300
Subject: anti-feedback filter schematics
References: <00a901bbf7e1$6e0f0140$a3d5abd4@claudio1>
Message-ID: <392C5E6D.CF8FC1C6@bahianet.com.br>

> claudio scozzafava wrote:
> 
> I'm search for some schematics of an simple anti feedback filter for
> my classical guitars's mic.
> Can someone help me?



Try http://www.sescom.com

They have some audio modules, and the SIP-15 is an automatic feedback
notch filter.


Edu Silva  --  ES2 Audio
Salvador - Baia - Brazil




From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Thu May 25 01:06:19 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:06:19 GMT
Subject: OT: working in the music industry
Message-ID: <20000524230619.27216.qmail@hotmail.com>




>From: Jim Patchell <patchell at silcom.com>
>To: Augusto Pinoche <augustopinoche at hotmail.com>
>CC: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
>Subject: Re: OT: working in the music industry
>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:23:49 -0700
>
>
>
>Augusto Pinoche wrote:
>
> > Some time ago there was some discussions
> > about how it was to work in the electronic
> > field as an ingeneur or designer etc, there
> > was some issues that was raised.
> >
>
>     The closest I ever got to working in the Music Industry, was >when I 
>interveiwed for Sequential Circuits.  They were a nice bunch >of dudes, but 
>the guy that interveiwed me sort of scared me.  One of >the questions he 
>asked (in fact, the only question I can remember >from back then) was "Do 
>you actually know how to design analog >circuits or do you just fiddle with 
>them till they work?".  He >explained the question by stating that that was 
>how the P5 was done >by him.  I never got the job (was never made an offer) 
>but had <decided when I walked out the door that maybe working there might 
>not <be a good idea.

Well, that sounded scary to me to, what a odd question to ask in a 
interwie!Hmm, since you say that it was him who made the P5,
it might have been the founder him self Dave Smith or somthing!

Besides what was he actually want to know, if you
fiddle or know how to do analogue design??

Maybe now we all know why badly the series one of the P5
is , he "developer just fiddled until it half worked"... >;->

AP


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu May 25 01:15:07 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 01:15:07 +0200
Subject: BBD
References: <20000524195706.38862.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <013801bfc5d5$e6e5f7c0$0400a8c0@Theo>

Intresting sure!!!
This sits in my wild ideas book for years now, but there is still so much
else to do...

Things get even better if two delaylines are used, one to and one fro.
Delay 1 fed with a driver signal and the output from delay2 (feedback).
The output of delay1 split and fed to two filters, one filter to audio out,
the other to the input of delay2.
The filters are there to "shape" the resonantor, e.g. a high pass filter in
the feedback to delay2 sounds like a flare
Controlling the cutoff will damp/mute or exite the sound.

There are some practical points however.
Since the dalay lines are a fixed number of samples the long, the way to
change pitch is variating sample rate.
You will need suficcent rang here.
Also it would be nice to be able to move the "pickup" around and the same
for the driver.
This may not be that easy to realise.

Last but not least, the thing would be a hell of a motherteresia to use.
Especially when you link more together, eg. one as the "string", another as
the boddy, and some others as sympathic strings.


Cheers Theo.



----- Original Message -----
From: Augusto Pinoche <augustopinoche at hotmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 9:57 PM
Subject: BBD


> How about doing a physical modelling oscillator
> model out of a BBD like SAD512 ,TDA1022,MN3004 etc.
>
> You could do that by using it as a standard
> delay, or why not do a combfilter of it!!
>
> A LPF at the end of it, a feedback path,
> and you have basic Karplus/strong module!
>
> Wouldent that be interesting?
>
> AP
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>




From proteus at ugwarehouse.org  Thu May 25 01:25:07 2000
From: proteus at ugwarehouse.org (The Proteus)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:25:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT: working in the music industry
In-Reply-To: <20000524195348.74922.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000524160533.20569A-100000@falcon.ugwarehouse.org>

Agusto & List,

	From what I've heard in my travels as an engineer and consultant,
things vary for the very good, to the absolutely horrendous. A lot of
tales about Ensoniq are true - especially since I'm working for them now,
indirectly. Ensoniq during its latter years in the MI industry wasn't so
sure that they could stay in the industry, and had a half-hearted approach
to designing products for MI. I've talked with a few engineers, and third
parties that worked to forge licensing deals with Ensoniq, and their
opinions varied from "Okay" To "Spotty at best." 
	As things stand now, Ensoniq MI engineering is no more. All of the
MI projects that are in current production from Ensoniq have been, or are
in the process of being moved to E-Mu / Ensoniq's headquarters in Scotts
Valley, CA. That's Ensoniq's MI division now, and all further Ensoniq
products will be an E-Mu engine with the Ensoniq label stuck on it.
	As an engineer working on the transition of all these products
from Ensoniq to E-Mu, all I can say is that it's like pulling teeth to get
any co-operation out of Ensoniq. We request documents, and we get the
incorrect ones, we request for engineering information and software
archives, and we get CD's of encoded visual sourcesafe libraries. Any time
we've wanted to get some serious information out of them, we've had to
literally fly someone out there and search all of the engineering
computers for the data - they're too busy making sound cards now to worry
about MI gear.
	I've only been in the industry officially for the past 6 months,
but my personal opinions of working for a MI company is that it's a dream
- but I've heard stories of others I work with getting shafted, quitting,
and then coming back after hellish times. It seems that the MI industry is
so critical, that you have to have all of your ducks lined up in a row to
be a "major contender". One wrong move, and you could destroy the business
you've worked so hard to create, and the products you have slaved over and
hoped that they'd be successful.
	A lot of people at E-Mu's engineering used to work for Sequential,
Flying Faders, Opcode, and other companies in the industry - and there's a
lot of diversity. The main problems I've heard of is when fresh (read:
business major) management steps in and tries to "professionally"
re-organize the company to achieve what they feel is "the absolute future"
of it. A lot of people are well-intentioned, but unfortunately it takes a
musician to understand a musical product - and there aren't many Business
majors out there that carry a tune, let alone care what a quaver is. They
only see projections, profits, losses, and then make arbitrary decisions
based on those figures in this industry, namely because they can't make
informed decisions when they have no idea what the market is. 
	In the case of Gibson, that's just a bad company to work for
unless you're an artisan specializing in guitars - and even that's getting
trashed slowly. From my experience, Opcode is no more, period. The only
thing that's being maintained is the web site, and Gibson is not
interested in carrying out Opcode's products either since all the talent
is gone. They did the same thing to Lynx Crowe (Father of ZIPI), and
indirectly to Tom Oberheim, through the buyout and subsequent destruction
of their product line as well. I could rant about Gibson for quite some
time, but I'll wrap it up with this: To me, Gibson takes this business WAY
too seriously. The music industry is supposed to be fun and educational
while making money. If it can't be fun, then why do we call it music?
	In summary, I love working in the industry - but I'm sure others
wouldn't share my enthusiasm. I've been lucky enough to be hired by a
company that has a good management team, and a strong financial backbone
that can potentially absorb any little mistakes we make. It's a
challenging thing to build something that's not only functional, but
aesthetically pleasing as well, and it's honestly what I've always dreamed
it would be. I guess, it's all how you see things - and I've always been
an optimist at best.

The Proteus

- - - T h e  U n d e r g r o u n d  W a r e h o u s e - - -
- - - Subversive - Tools - For - A - Chaotic - Planet - - -
-  h t t p : / / w w w . u g w a r e h o u s e . o r g /  -
--<T h e  P r o t e u s>-<Musician>-<Producer>-<Engineer>--

On Wed, 24 May 2000, Augusto Pinoche wrote:

> Some time ago there was some discussions
> about how it was to work in the electronic
> field as an ingeneur or designer etc, there
> was some issues that was raised.
> 
> Some years ago those issues was up again and there
> was someone who was tierd of being hired and fired
> every two months, he was working for Ensoniq writing
> software for the Ensoniq keyboards,
> if i can recall this right.
> 
> Another case is the dude who did the ASR-X
> machine for Ensoniq and suddenly was fierd for as
> it seams to no reason at all, whit some other 20
> dudes of the engineering department!
> 
> And the last thing i heard about Ensoniq was the DSP
> engineer who made the signal synthesis algos for ensoniqs
> effect boxes was sued by Ensoniq for some paper that was
> published!!
> 
> In some ways it seams that Ensoniq is no god employer!
> 
> Then we have the idiotic behavior of the CEO of Gibson
> who main purpose is to kill Opcode as much as he possibly
> can, as far i have heard that hassle is still not solved!!
> 
> Then we have the stories about how companies was
> more or less stolen,like Tom Oberheims, etc.
> 
> Some of you have or still do work for some of the
> brand names in this electronic industry as engineers
> techs etc etc, it would be interesting to know what is
> your experience of working in the music industry!
> 
> Has the Music industry been taken over by the
> economist in suits as the telecom and internet
> field has been?
> 
> 




From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Thu May 25 01:37:24 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:37:24 GMT
Subject: Forat, Linn9000!!!
Message-ID: <20000524233724.88100.qmail@hotmail.com>

HEY, you sluggish diy dudes whit flees in your undervear
look what Forat is doing, coooool. I buy one please!
I wonder what the saking price is for the beat box!

http://www.forat.com/drummachines/

AP


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From patchell at silcom.com  Thu May 25 02:17:51 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:17:51 -0700
Subject: OT: working in the music industry
References: <20000524230619.27216.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <392C712F.547CFEA6@silcom.com>



Augusto Pinoche wrote:

> >     The closest I ever got to working in the Music Industry, was >when I
> >interveiwed for Sequential Circuits.  They were a nice bunch >of dudes, but
> >the guy that interveiwed me sort of scared me.  One of >the questions he
> >asked (in fact, the only question I can remember >from back then) was "Do
> >you actually know how to design analog >circuits or do you just fiddle with
> >them till they work?".  He >explained the question by stating that that was
> >how the P5 was done >by him.  I never got the job (was never made an offer)
> >but had <decided when I walked out the door that maybe working there might
> >not <be a good idea.
>
> Well, that sounded scary to me to, what a odd question to ask in a
> interwie!Hmm, since you say that it was him who made the P5,
> it might have been the founder him self Dave Smith or somthing!
>
> Besides what was he actually want to know, if you
> fiddle or know how to do analogue design??
>

    I think they wanted to know if I knew how to do analog design.  One of the
previous places I worked I had to clean up designs that were done by just
fiddling until it worked, and didn't really want to do that again.  From
previous experience, when you actually try to fix something, there is always a
lot of resistance.

>
> Maybe now we all know why badly the series one of the P5
> is , he "developer just fiddled until it half worked"... >;->
>
> AP

-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Thu May 25 02:51:23 2000
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 18:51:23 -0600
Subject: BBD
References: <20000524195706.38862.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <003c01bfc5e3$5a9b2bb0$71ab183f@Studio1>

See the following ---

http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/1997_articles/jul97/ronberry.html



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Augusto Pinoche" <augustopinoche at hotmail.com>
> How about doing a physical modelling oscillator
> model out of a BBD like SAD512 ,TDA1022,MN3004 etc.
> 
> You could do that by using it as a standard
> delay, or why not do a combfilter of it!!
> 
> A LPF at the end of it, a feedback path,
> and you have basic Karplus/strong module!
> 
> Wouldent that be interesting?
> 




From CasioRZ1 at aol.com  Thu May 25 02:54:08 2000
From: CasioRZ1 at aol.com (CasioRZ1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:54:08 EDT
Subject: Forat, Linn9000!!!
Message-ID: <63.60be6a8.265dd3b0@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/24/2000 6:25:25 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
augustopinoche at hotmail.com writes:

<< HEY, you sluggish diy dudes whit flees in your undervear
 look what Forat is doing, coooool. I buy one please!
 I wonder what the saking price is for the beat box!
 
 http://www.forat.com/drummachines/
 
 AP >>

FWIW, I still sequence on one of these (a Forat 9000 that I got out of a pawn 
shop... I thought it was a cash register at first glance).  It's a great 
unit, the friendliest sequencer I've ever used.  It's pattern style 
sequencing as opposed to the
linear style of most softsequencers, which is why I use it.  Unfortunately, 
mine is horribly unreliable and likes to lock up and dump your sequences (I 
think this is due to harsh treatment by the previous owner and not 
Forat's/Linn's fault), and, unfortunately, it only records 32 midi 
controllers.   On the plus side, you can burn your own ROMs and stick 'em in 
there for some old skool sampling fun.

I talked to Forat about 'em... seems they wanted about $2k for a non-sampling 
Forat 9000 if my memory serves correctly.  While it is a great machine, you 
can get a lot more for your money w/an Akai MPC-2000, which is the direct 
descendant of the Linn9000.  It's incredibly similar, right down to the 
"repeat" button.

Derek



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu May 25 04:10:08 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:10:08 -0400
Subject: guitar synth
References: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA01FA4231@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>
Message-ID: <392C8B80.6CC48D21@prodigy.net>

Sorry I disagree....

Playing an organ or piano sound could be very satisfying... esp
in a live performance situation. It could fatten up a thin sounding
solo, duo, trio, cover for someone else while THEY do something
interesting.....

"Boring" is in the (eye, ear, ???) of the beholder....

H^)

Haible Juergen wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Czech [SMTP:czech at Micronas.Com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 10:57 AM
> > To:   synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> > Subject:      Re: guitar synth
> >
> >
> > > individual pick ups , one for each string. Like distortion without
> > > intermodulation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Funny enough, as a non-guitar player, this (the artefacts) is for what
> > I envy you (the guitar players) the most.
> >
> > That's why I sometimes play organ into distortion devices, rather than
> > a buzzy synth sound. I like the artefacts that come from legato
> playing. A distorded minor second sounds great when it only lasts
> a few milliseconds !
>
> > And that's why I play a VL7 (with a *clean* guitar sound) thru the HiFli:
> > I like the interactions of a non-perfect tone with nonlinear devices.
> > Just when the VL7's fake guitar sound with finite sustain has *almost*
> > faded below the noise, and the compressor still boosts both signal and
> > noise to a level where the HiFli's distortion works - that's where the
> > fun really starts.
> > I whished I had the duophonic VL1 instead, to get the phrasing
> > of "dirty" transitions bewtween notes from separate strings as well !
> >
> > Meanwhile, the following is a good surrogate: I play the clean guitar
> > sound into the VL7's internal echo effect, with high feedback gain
> > (10 ... 20 echoes). Then the output of the echo goes into the
> > HiFli and is compressed and distorted there. Each time I play a new
> > note, the compressor pushes the echoes into the background, and
> I get a rather "clean" and singing distortion. But as the volume
> > of the dominating note fades (or when I play nore notes in legato mode),
> > the echo starts to play a role in the distortion and the sound becomes
> > more dirty.
> >
> > Ok, the HiFli is not really a guitar synthesizer, but a set of more or
> > less ordinary guitar effects. But it also has envelope detectors
> > which generate trigger signals for synthesized envelopes, and the
> > sub octave generator is closer to a pitch detector than to a simple
> > frequency divider.
> >
> > Bottom line: Even though I'm not a guitar player, I enjoy the various
> > possibilities of guitar synth related processing - but I agree with
> > Martin: Playing an organ or piano sound from a stringed instrument
> > must be boring for sure.
> >
> > JH.
> >
> >




From tpaddock at seanet.com  Thu May 25 04:41:17 2000
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:41:17 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Electronix Express catalog
Message-ID: <01BFC5B8.2D233680@dialup-63.214.9.155.Seattle1.Level3.net>

I just got kind of a cool catalog from Electronix Express.
Test equipment, breadboards, soldering, etching, 
components, doo-dads, and what-nots.

http://www.elexp.com   electron at elexp.com

A little voice is telling me I might have even heard 
about it here, ordered a catalog, forgot all about it, 
and am now repeating what was already said. 
If so, my apologies.

- -- -  Toby Paddock
http://www.seanet.com/~tpaddock
Three Faces of Odyssey and Visible Minimoog




From proteus at ugwarehouse.org  Thu May 25 05:50:42 2000
From: proteus at ugwarehouse.org (The Proteus)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Semi-OT: Audio Analyzer?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000524204557.24780A-100000@falcon.ugwarehouse.org>

All,

	I've been spoiled over the past while with my Audio Precision
System-2, and now the time has come for me to get a home audio analysis
test set. I know I could get general purpose equipment to analyze
parameters like THD, IMD, etc., but I'd like something specifically
designed for audio. Obviously, like most of us I don't have the ca$h to
stock my home lab with a $40,000+ Audio Precision, and I was wondering
what other people have used in the past. I've seen brands like Tektronix
and HP in the "vintage" category, and even audio-specific companies like
Potomac develop combo signal generator/analyzers to do these kind of
measurements. Anyone care to give their opinion on what could be used to
test audio parameters like THD, IMD, CMRR, frequency response, etc? Any
and all help is appreciated. :-)

The Proteus

- - - T h e  U n d e r g r o u n d  W a r e h o u s e - - -
- - - Subversive - Tools - For - A - Chaotic - Planet - - -
-  h t t p : / / w w w . u g w a r e h o u s e . o r g /  -
--<T h e  P r o t e u s>-<Musician>-<Producer>-<Engineer>--




From synth1 at airmail.net  Thu May 25 06:19:45 2000
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:19:45 -0500
Subject: Semi-OT: Audio Analyzer?
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000524204557.24780A-100000@falcon.ugwarehouse.org>
Message-ID: <010401bfc600$75402160$0100007f@localhost>

There are several $300-$500 programs that work in conjunction with
your audio card. They advertize in Nuts & Volts magazine.

Paul S.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: The Proteus <proteus at ugwarehouse.org>
To: Synthesizer DIY List <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 10:50 PM
Subject: Semi-OT: Audio Analyzer?


> All,
> 
> I've been spoiled over the past while with my Audio Precision
> System-2, and now the time has come for me to get a home audio analysis
> test set. I know I could get general purpose equipment to analyze
> parameters like THD, IMD, etc., but I'd like something specifically
> designed for audio. Obviously, like most of us I don't have the ca$h to
> stock my home lab with a $40,000+ Audio Precision, and I was wondering
> what other people have used in the past. I've seen brands like Tektronix
> and HP in the "vintage" category, and even audio-specific companies like
> Potomac develop combo signal generator/analyzers to do these kind of
> measurements. Anyone care to give their opinion on what could be used to
> test audio parameters like THD, IMD, CMRR, frequency response, etc? Any
> and all help is appreciated. :-)
> 
> The Proteus
> 
> - - - T h e  U n d e r g r o u n d  W a r e h o u s e - - -
> - - - Subversive - Tools - For - A - Chaotic - Planet - - -
> -  h t t p : / / w w w . u g w a r e h o u s e . o r g /  -
> --<T h e  P r o t e u s>-<Musician>-<Producer>-<Engineer>--
> 




From czech at Micronas.Com  Thu May 25 08:24:16 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:24:16 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: guitar synth
Message-ID: <200005250624.IAA10936@ikarus.intermetall.de>

I did not know that, but I was refering to normal synth sounds,
not sounding like Hendrix, but with guitar style.

m.c.

:::Jan Hammer had Oberheim build him 2 VERY specific poly synths. Both are 
extremely guitar sounding and mimic a 'Hendrix' type of sound. He was very proud 
of his guiatr sounding accomplishments. Listen to the album HAMMER. Manic 
Depression sounds almost exactly like Jimmy, but in the liner notes is states 
'There is no guitar on this album'. Also listen to 'Star Cycle' on Jeff Beck's 
There and Back. Again, the same Hendrix sounding synths.




From czech at Micronas.Com  Thu May 25 08:25:33 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:25:33 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: guitar synth
Message-ID: <200005250625.IAA10940@ikarus.intermetall.de>

Harry Slayer? ;->

Perhaps a Tee would be appropriate, ie. a tap to get the hex analog signal.

m.c.

:::X-Originating-IP: [207.206.127.34]
:::From: "Hairy Harry" <paia2720 at hotmail.com>
:::To: czech at Micronas.Com
:::Subject: Re: guitar synth
:::Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:51:54 GMT
:::
:::Hi Martin:
:::
:::Buy the G-vox guitar to computer interface. I got mine for $49
:::USA. CUT off the hex humbucking magnetic pickup and use it, 7 wires... 1 is 
:::common. The one that meters the same resistance to all other wires is the 
:::common one. Or trace the interface box...
:::
:::I'm using it is better than the Avitar and 360 sys pickups, and equal to the 
:::roland at 1/4 the cost.
:::
:::Hex fuzz rules... BUT (unlike what I thought) it is much more MELLOW
:::than standard fuzz.
:::
:::1) There is an increase in overall volume as more strings are played.
:::So it looks like an "area under the curve" or a rough integration of the 
:::original (all strings) signal. The amplitude envelope is similar to 
:::unmodified guitar...
:::
:::2) The IM distortion is gone. Just Harmonic is left and that is mellow.
:::
:::Sorry if this don't go over the edge for you (lol)
:::
:::H^)  harry
:::
:::
:::>From: Martin Czech <czech at Micronas.Com>
:::>Reply-To: Martin Czech <czech at Micronas.Com>
:::>To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
:::>Subject: Re: guitar synth
:::>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:57:21 +0200 (MET DST)
:::>
:::>All this guitar synth raving...
:::>
:::>I played this axon thing at Frankfurt music fair, I thought:  damn well
:::>done.  But so what? If I use an organ preset, it will sound like organ,
:::>or piano, etc. If that's what I need I can play an organ or piano in
:::>the first place.  Maybe that's because I'm able to play keys as well
:::>(or bad) as strings...
:::>
:::>If you listen to recordings from Jan Hammer e.g., you'll notice that
:::>he can make a keyboard sound much like an E-guitar. Not because of the
:::>waveform or anything, just because he imitates the playing style. Playing
:::>style is very important, wave form etc. comes second.
:::>
:::>(This works like those artists who can imitate Mr. Clinton, or Mr. 
:::>Schroeder,
:::>their voice will not sound much like the real one, but their style
:::>of speaking does.)
:::>
:::>You'll have to imitate the bending, the vibrato and the prefered scales
:::>and licks as well.
:::>
:::>Get home and exercicse instead looking for not working technical
:::>solutions ;->
:::>
:::>I do not see much use in guitar to something converters.  Maybe this is
:::>because I'm into crunch and high gain sounds.  What could be more fun
:::>then playing into a good tube amp at high gain?
:::>
:::>Only one thing would be interesting to me:
:::>
:::>individual pick ups , one for each string. Like distortion without
:::>intermodulation.
:::>
:::>Has anybody seen an audio hex pickup (not piezo)?
:::>
:::>m.c.
:::>
:::
:::________________________________________________________________________
:::Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From svetengr at earthlink.net  Thu May 25 09:00:23 2000
From: svetengr at earthlink.net (eric)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:00:23 -0700
Subject: question for hobbyists here
Message-ID: <392CCF87.49BD5938@earthlink.com>

Gentlemen/ladies:

An upcoming new Metasonix product could be made
available as a PC board with assembly instructions.
I'd like to gauge if there is sufficient hobbyist
interest in this.

The PCB is about 10" x 9". It will contain the
basic circuits for a tube monosynth, consisting
of a tube VCO, a simple tube bandpass VCF and tube VCA,
plus two basic AR envelope generators (one for VCA, one 
to modulate filter center freq) and a triangle LFO 
(also for filter mod).
The VCO is driven from any MIDI-CV that can produce a 
V/Hz response and has an offset trimpot, such as a 
Kenton Pro-4, JKJ, or Phil Rees converter. Its range
is C1 to a little over C3, with a switch to raise
that 2 octaves, giving more than 4 octaves.
Gate input is 10v positive-going. There is CV and
gate input, an aux. filter CV input, a VCO
FM input, and audio output, all fully compatible 
with conventional solid-state synth equipment.

An optional connection can let you inject an 
external signal into the filter (this needs an extra
switch to shut off the board's internal VCO).

The controls are off-board, using ten 50k pots
and 3 spst switches. Power requirement is +12v
and -12v at about 600 mA (need not be regulated), 
plus a source for 120v AC from a small isolation
transformer or back-to-back filament transformers.
Holds 4 tubes, 3 ICs and about fifty assorted
resistors, diodes and caps. No exotic components,
all readily available from Mouser or Antique Electronics.
Cabinetry and power supplies are up to you--a 2U 
high rackmount cabinet will hold it all.

This partial kit should cost $100 and is best
for experienced kitbuilders (there is +140v dc
on the board and the assembly instructions will
be rather simplified).

If anyone on this list would be interested in such
a kit, please let me know. It can be ready by
mid-June.



From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Thu May 25 14:58:47 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 07:58:47 -0500
Subject: Forat, Linn9000!!!
References: <63.60be6a8.265dd3b0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001d01bfc648$f7c6a940$c148fea9@rob>

Yeah, but the bummer with the mpc2k is the thing can only play one track
when you are in record mode and cant change from play to record mode while
its playing. I loved my Linn Sequencer for this very reason, but it too was
flakey at times. Still, though, the groove accomplished with these machines
is awesome. Very hard to screw up and be off time.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: <CasioRZ1 at aol.com>
To: <augustopinoche at hotmail.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Forat, Linn9000!!!


> In a message dated 5/24/2000 6:25:25 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> augustopinoche at hotmail.com writes:
>
> << HEY, you sluggish diy dudes whit flees in your undervear
>  look what Forat is doing, coooool. I buy one please!
>  I wonder what the saking price is for the beat box!
>
>  http://www.forat.com/drummachines/
>
>  AP >>
>
> FWIW, I still sequence on one of these (a Forat 9000 that I got out of a
pawn
> shop... I thought it was a cash register at first glance).  It's a great
> unit, the friendliest sequencer I've ever used.  It's pattern style
> sequencing as opposed to the
> linear style of most softsequencers, which is why I use it.
Unfortunately,
> mine is horribly unreliable and likes to lock up and dump your sequences
(I
> think this is due to harsh treatment by the previous owner and not
> Forat's/Linn's fault), and, unfortunately, it only records 32 midi
> controllers.   On the plus side, you can burn your own ROMs and stick 'em
in
> there for some old skool sampling fun.
>
> I talked to Forat about 'em... seems they wanted about $2k for a
non-sampling
> Forat 9000 if my memory serves correctly.  While it is a great machine,
you
> can get a lot more for your money w/an Akai MPC-2000, which is the direct
> descendant of the Linn9000.  It's incredibly similar, right down to the
> "repeat" button.
>
> Derek
>




From sdcurtin at lucent.com  Thu May 25 16:06:14 2000
From: sdcurtin at lucent.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:06:14 -0400
Subject: working in the music industry
Message-ID: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1DDA@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com>

> >This was me.  It was actually more like every three years.   All the MI 
> > >places I've ever worked (including Opcode) are either defunkt or in
> much 
> >smaller spaces.  Working for Lucent seems to have paid off, when my
> project 
> >gets cancelled I can just find work in another part of Lucent.
> 
> So you say that you was employed and fired, emploed and
> fired and employed and finaley fired again??
> Now that is strange behaviour by the management!!
> 
No, I hope that wasn't how it came out.  Here's a brief history:

Opcode 1987-89  Patch editors part time during grad school
Passport 1990-1992   Mac sound editor programmer - AudioTrax, Alchemy
Studer EdiTech 1992-1993   Mac and embedded systems for Dyaxis II
Ensoniq 1993-1996  Advanced Product R&D, tuning support for MR series
Lucent Technologies 1997-  PC Audio, satellite radio
My current goal is to have the same job for five years in a row.

> Quite strange behavior (again) from the management i must say,
> first they fired you, then they employed this dude who
> made the ASR and then some months later they fired him too!!!
> Maybe there is a natural explenation! ;-)!
> 
The people working on the ASR had been working on it for many years.  It was
developed from 1991 until 1997.  Its history goes back to the EPS which was
started in 1986 or so.  The ASR-X is a repackaging of the ASR into a desktop
box with drum pads.

> Yepp thats right!
> So who lost the issue, Ensoniq or Dattoro?
> 
I haven't followed it.   Jon is a brilliant guy, he also wrote a very famous
article in JAES about overflow accumulation in filters, and taught a great
course in DSP while at Ensoniq.  He was responsible for a lot of the DSP
technology developed at Ensoniq.  I wish him well.

> Interesting,If the top management had to do some tought decisions
> just to keep the company going then there is usually a bad management
> that is my experience from both startuppers and usuall long timers.
> In 95% of the cases a company going bad is by bad decisions
> made by the managenet. Besides it "was" a great company!!
> 
The music industry is a strange creature, since most of the people who work
in it are not motivated by money, but by the love of building instruments,
and many (such as myself) do not have formal Engineering degrees.  There is
a lot of "if we build it they will come" mentality which is what passes for
a business plan.  Ensoniq happens to be the most currently visible
casuality, there are many others.

> Still its interesting to see that Ensoniq made a keyboard
> called Fizmo quite late since they seamed to have fired
> the enginers allready?
> 
Yes, that was a potentially cool product but was too little too late.   It
used the transwave synthesis technology I was working with in R&D.

> Its little strange then to know that Emu is looking for
> people when Ensoniq fierd the entire enginering department!
> Would be wery easy for Emu/Creative to just call the
> fired Ensoniq people up!
> 
As The Proteus mentioned, it's a very complicated situation, with lots of
hurt feelings all around.

> Yes thats a part of the truth, and using the PC whit BillGates crapware 
> dosent improwe the musicans situation alot!
> 
That depends on who you talk to.

> Doesent you folks just love gossips, particulare
> when there is some real stuff into them!!  >;->
> 
I'd much rather see this thread fade away and get back to talking about the
new synthesizers that we're all building, thank you very much.

Steve C




From daugard at sprintmail.com  Thu May 25 18:53:31 2000
From: daugard at sprintmail.com (Tim Daugard)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:53:31 -0500
Subject: working... never mind lets move on
References: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1DDA@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com>
Message-ID: <005501bfc66b$66195600$9efbbfa8@laptop>

>> Yes thats a part of the truth, and using the PC whit BillGates crapware
>> dosent improwe the musicans situation alot!

>That depends on who you talk to.

I've been using a spreadsheet for passive filter network design. I did some
by hand years ago. It took a day or two to get the basic value. I can get
the response curve changes in secs. Change a resistor value and watch the
response change. Set a cap to zero (equivalent of remove the cap) and
discover that high end drop is faster. I'm not going back to non-pc design.
(Correll not bill gates but it don't matter.

BTW: I ran the scope software someone recommended a few days ago (too tired
from teaching to page through and look up the name - but many thanks) on my
lap - No signal in just my finger on the end of a patch cord. Works well -
just won't draw the grid on files copied.

I'm jealous of Bill Gates and would prefer other operating systems also, but
I'm am writing this and listening to y'all at least in part to Microsoft. So
thanks and lets move on. Life is rough and to short to complain about
failures tell me what's good.

BTW again (Lots of pent up from being stuck in a classroom teaching 8 hours
a day for 2 weeks. I'm going to try stringing a bass with guitar strings (up
one octave) feed into maybe four active filters (try to at least get part of
the individual responses of the strings) and into octave dividers to get
back down to bass range.  Just an alternative to individual fret pickups.
Some times an organ sound is good. I'm already feeding into a log amp to
stretch the sustain. This won't happen till August - I already have too much
schedules and too many other circuits on the bench.

Tim Daugard




From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Thu May 25 19:26:07 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:26:07 GMT
Subject: working in the music industry
Message-ID: <20000525172609.54861.qmail@hotmail.com>

>From: "Curtin, Steven D (Steven)" <sdcurtin at lucent.com>

>Opcode 1987-89  Patch editors part time during grad school
>Passport 1990-1992   Mac sound editor programmer - AudioTrax, Alchemy
>Studer EdiTech 1992-1993   Mac and embedded systems for Dyaxis II
>Ensoniq 1993-1996  Advanced Product R&D, tuning support for MR series
>Lucent Technologies 1997-  PC Audio, satellite radio
>My current goal is to have the same job for five years in a row.

Ok, i got it.
Was Bobb Yannes in the company until the final end?

>The people working on the ASR had been working on it for many years. >It 
>was developed from 1991 until 1997.  Its history goes back to the >EPS 
>which was started in 1986 or so.  The ASR-X is a repackaging of >the ASR 
>into a desktop
>box with drum pads.

That was a completely different description of the ASR-X
development then was told from the developer him self??
Nevermind.

>I haven't followed it.   Jon is a brilliant guy, he also wrote a very 
> >famous article in JAES about overflow accumulation in filters, and 
> >taught a great course in DSP while at Ensoniq.  He was responsible >for a 
>lot of the DSP technology developed at Ensoniq.  I wish him >well.

And for his efforts the company sued him, i just dont get that part,
im sorry, to me it just sound strange to have to settling an issue
in a court rom.

> > Interesting,If the top management had to do some tought decisions
> > just to keep the company going then there is usually a bad >>management 
>that is my experience from both startuppers and usuall >>long timers.> > In 
>95% of the cases a company going bad is by bad >>decisions
<> > made by the managenet. Besides it "was" a great company!!

>The music industry is a strange creature, since most of the people >who 
>work in it are not motivated by money, but by the love of >building 
>instruments, and many (such as myself) do not have formal >Engineering 
>degrees.  There is a lot of "if we build it they will >come" mentality 
>which is what passes for a business plan.  Ensoniq >happens to be the most 
>currently visible
>casuality, there are many others.

Its a strange creature yes but as far i have heard from developers
a lot of what they say is "it has to sell well" or  "we dont do it
if it dont sell".etc etc... Yepp its a strange creature.

>Yes, that was a potentially cool product but was too little too late. >It 
>used the transwave synthesis technology I was working with in R&D.

I bought the ESQ1 since the day Ensoniq released the box
later I sold it and two years later i bought it back,
and in year 2000 i still have it and use it, today i
think i do some hack in to the device and upgrade it
to a SQ80 OS. Still i think that Ensoniq made several
crap instruments like the VFX, EPS and some other,
terrible keyboards, push buttoms that popped out of the
panel, unstable OS etc. The Fizmo "was interesting until
i tried it and noticed its wery slow envelope times,
then i was totally unintrested of the device.

> > Its little strange then to know that Emu is looking for
> > people when Ensoniq fierd the entire enginering department!
> > Would be wery easy for Emu/Creative to just call the
> > fired Ensoniq people up!
> >
>As The Proteus mentioned, it's a very complicated situation, with >lots of 
>hurt feelings all around.

Hurt felings is mostly created by bad management.

> > Doesent you folks just love gossips, particulare
> > when there is some real stuff into them!!  >;->

>I'd much rather see this thread fade away and get back to talking >about 
>the new synthesizers that we're all building, thank you very >much.

Did you notice the smiley at the end of the sentence Steve!

AP
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Thu May 25 19:46:32 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:46:32 GMT
Subject: OT: working in the music industry
Message-ID: <20000525174632.21749.qmail@hotmail.com>

Brilliant, thanks!

>re-organize the company to achieve what they feel is "the absolute >future" 
>of it. A lot of people are well-intentioned, but >unfortunately >it takes a 
>musician to understand a musical product - >and there aren't many Business
>majors out there that carry a tune, let alone care what a quaver is. >They 
>only see projections, profits, losses, and then make arbitrary <decisions 
>based on those figures in this industry, namely because >they can't make 
>informed decisions when they have no idea what the >market is.

Absolutely.

>In the case of Gibson, that's just a bad company to work for
>unless you're an artisan specializing in guitars - and even that's >getting 
>trashed slowly. From my experience, Opcode is no more, >period. The only 
>thing that's being maintained is the web site, and >Gibson is not 
>interested in carrying out Opcode's products either >since all the talent 
>is gone. They did the same thing to Lynx Crowe >(Father of ZIPI), and
>indirectly to Tom Oberheim, through the buyout and subsequent >destruction 
>of their product line as well. I could rant about Gibson <for quite some 
>time, but I'll wrap it up with this: To me, Gibson >takes this business WAY
>too seriously. The music industry is supposed to be fun and >educational 
>while making money. If it can't be fun, then why do we >call it music?

Right, where is the fun part!
To me the music industry has developed into to an
ugly monster (more or less) ruled by some gready
people who's main intention is market monoploy.

Just look at the open source and the software
patent issues in general, its just a big mess.
There is just so much things taken place "behind" the curtain
that we just is'nt aware of, and maybe one should be happy
not knowing!!

AP
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From anders.sponton at swipnet.se  Thu May 25 21:38:38 2000
From: anders.sponton at swipnet.se (Anders Sponton)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:38:38 +0200
Subject: new formant stuff
Message-ID: <392D813E.D0E68580@swipnet.se>

You can find the long missing sounds of the Formant Synth on my page,
thanks to Christian Isheim of Berlin, Germany.


Anders, Sweden



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu May 25 23:05:25 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:05:25 -0700
Subject: DIY CD
References: <000e01bfc547$73e06960$0100a8c0@homenet> <002901bfc574$d05d0ae0$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <002401bfc68c$f38712e0$0100a8c0@homenet>

Things are going well on the DIY-CD front. I have received 2
offers of enough web space to put the thing when it's done.

A lot of people have offered their sites but the big guns are
all silent..I guess I'm going to have to go begging.

Tom





From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Fri May 26 04:52:09 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:52:09 -0500
Subject: Forat, Linn9000!!!
References: <200005260036.RAA19149@taxismtp2.alchemyfx.com>
Message-ID: <000901bfc6bd$72fd8880$4c05fea9@rob>

Okay, well, sorry for the mild misinformation, its been about 3 years ago
since I bothered with one, it might also have been 2 other trax and the one
you are recording for a total of 3, but even then Im not definite.

So how many? Just saying more than one track doesnt really flesh out the
capabilities, ya know? ;)

Even if its two, it *still* is not all that great esp. with the limitation
about the sample loop start point needing some space in it which is the
reason I got rid of both the mpc2k and the s2k.

Some ppl love it and thats great. I kinda like it, but not for what they are
asking.  I get the feeling akai completely dropped the ball when they
released it with all the bugs it had and they are doing the same thing now
with some of their newer flagship samplers.

Unfortunately IMHO Akai is now treating the pro music division like they
treat their consumer electronics division. "Get it out, be first with
product, get their money, THEN worry about the bugs". I test consumer
electronics for a living. You should see what akai/nec and some of the other
corps try to pass as saleable product. Ugh! ;))


Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: <theoms at nettaxi.com>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 8:36 PM
Subject: re: Re: Forat, Linn9000!!!


> The MPC2K can play more than one track in record mode.
>
>
>
> > ** Original Subject: Re: Forat, Linn9000!!!
> > ** Original Sender: "Rob" <cyborg_0 at iquest.net>
> > ** Original Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:10:15 -0700
>
> > ** Original Message follows...
>
> >
> > Yeah, but the bummer with the mpc2k is the thing can only play one track
> > when you are in record mode and cant change from play to record mode
while
> > its playing. I loved my Linn Sequencer for this very reason, but it too
was
> > flakey at times. Still, though, the groove accomplished with these
machines
> > is awesome. Very hard to screw up and be off time.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----From: <CasioRZ1 at aol.com>
> > To: <augustopinoche at hotmail.com>
> > Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 7:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: Forat, Linn9000!!!
> >
> >
> > > In a message dated 5/24/2000 6:25:25 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> > > augustopinoche at hotmail.com writes:
> > >
> > > << HEY, you sluggish diy dudes whit flees in your undervear
> > >  look what Forat is doing, coooool. I buy one please!
> > >  I wonder what the saking price is for the beat box!
> > >
> > >  http://www.forat.com/drummachines/
> > >
> > >  AP >>
> > >
> > > FWIW, I still sequence on one of these (a Forat 9000 that I got out of
a
> > pawn
> > > shop... I thought it was a cash register at first glance).  It's a
great
> > > unit, the friendliest sequencer I've ever used.  It's pattern style
> > > sequencing as opposed to the
> > > linear style of most softsequencers, which is why I use it.
> > Unfortunately,
> > > mine is horribly unreliable and likes to lock up and dump your
sequences
> > (I
> > > think this is due to harsh treatment by the previous owner and not
> > > Forat's/Linn's fault), and, unfortunately, it only records 32 midi
> > > controllers.   On the plus side, you can burn your own ROMs and stick
'em
> > in
> > > there for some old skool sampling fun.
> > >
> > > I talked to Forat about 'em... seems they wanted about $2k for a
> > non-sampling
> > > Forat 9000 if my memory serves correctly.  While it is a great
machine,
> > you
> > > can get a lot more for your money w/an Akai MPC-2000, which is the
direct
> > > descendant of the Linn9000.  It's incredibly similar, right down to
the
> > > "repeat" button.
> > >
> > > Derek
> > >
>
>
> >** --------- End Original Message ----------- **
>
> >
>
>
>
>




From debus at cityweb.de  Fri May 26 09:42:31 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:42:31 +0200
Subject: guitar synth
References: <200005240857.KAA09163@ikarus.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <392E2AE6.31424BF0@cityweb.de>

Hi,

I think it's time to introduce myself (being on the list for 3 years
now ;-)): I started with acoustic guitar (besides recorder I played when
I was a child), play keyboard, djembe (west african hand drum), flute
and an Yamaha WX5 MIDI Wind Controller. I play this WX5 for 1 1/2 years
now, and it's fun! I like it much more than playing keyboard, which I do
for about 25 years now.

Martin Czech wrote:
> You'll have to imitate the bending, the vibrato and the prefered scales
> and licks as well.
> 
> Get home and exercicse instead looking for not working technical
> solutions ;->

I never played a guitar synth, but for the Wind Controller I'm sure even
a non-skilled player like me can do things with it a keyboarder never can
do, no matter how hard he/she exercises. The Wind Controller is by far
not as expressive as an acoustic wind instrument like the flute, but it's
way more expressive than playing a synth with a keyboard. And I think to
some degree this could be true for a guitar-type synth "input-device"
too. Why exercise on a synth input device which is lacking expressivity
when there are technical solutions? ;->

farky wrote:
> I can't imagine the nuances being electronically converted.

Even if only some of the nuances could be converted, a guitar-type synth
controller would be superior to a keyboard. Let's say, pluck strength,
pluck position and bend strength (force sensors at the strings?) could
be converted into separate control voltages/MIDI information?
Having separate control voltages/MIDI information for the position where
the string is fretted (is that the correct term?) and for bend
strength would be a good thing because bend sensitivity would be
adjustable for the user. Bends could even control other parameters than
pitch, like filter cutoff or whatever.

Harry, is it ok to call this thing a "guitar-type synth controller"? I
think it's obvious that this is not a guitar. No-one thinks the Wind
Controller is an electronic sax, although the sax fingerings are similar.

Ingo (building a xylophone-type synth controller at the moment - this is
what I needed the touch switches for)




From czech at Micronas.Com  Fri May 26 12:00:45 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:00:45 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: guitar synth
Message-ID: <200005261000.MAA13667@ikarus.intermetall.de>


:::too. Why exercise on a synth input device which is lacking expressivity
:::when there are technical solutions? ;->

I'd didn't say "all keys". Pedals, wheels, keyboards come with a lot of stuff,
even with wind controllers. Use what you have.


m.c.




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri May 26 13:00:31 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 04:00:31 -0700
Subject: HP to PCB & PNL
Message-ID: <004301bfc701$9de21f40$0100a8c0@homenet>

I just spent the last 30 minuets disassembling a working HP DeskJet
I picked up at the thrift for $10 (minus the power supply). These 
things keep popping up really cheep and I've been thinking of a 
pcb printer ever sense we talked about using a plotter with easytraks.

The point being ... I think it can be done.  The way the head moves
on the assembly it pretty straight forward. I think with a few mods
to the case and adding a micro adjuster ( spring & wing-nut) on each 
side this will work and might even print panels!!

The problem is moving the material through the printer. I'm thinking
some sort of large rubber belt about the thickness of a inner-tube
using the printer motor that pulls the paper as a drive. A flat table and
a free wheel on the back ( maybe another printer mech..;-)  I
suppose I'll have to come up with pinch rollers too but I still think
it will work. Has anyone thought/tried this?

Tom





From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri May 26 13:25:58 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 04:25:58 -0700
Subject: DIY CD
References: <000e01bfc547$73e06960$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <005401bfc705$ce737420$0100a8c0@homenet>


OK!! Everybody (well almost everybody) is in! Thank you, Thank you!
Anders says he'll host the image, so it's got a home. We might even
mirror it somewhere if you guys want.

A lot of you guys might be holding back because you don't think your 
site is ready or you are just getting ready to do a "major upgrage" well..
don't. This CD will be a snapshot of the current synth-diy community
and you are a  part of it. I think every one of your sites is important 
because it shows the strength of the community.  We'll do V2.0 next 
June and you'll all have a chance to showoff your new stuff....I promase! 
This is a great chance to get people who would not normally hit your web 
page to see your site. Schematics are NOT mandentory!

I'll pull the sites over June 9,10 and 11th so there is still time to fix
that spelling or change the wallpaper...;-). I would do it the 2,3,4th but....
see the next post....

I still have to go begging...but the list is very short now...;-) Thanks
again everybody!

Tom





From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri May 26 13:30:33 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 04:30:33 -0700
Subject: Mini-Cam
Message-ID: <005601bfc705$cfe4b760$0100a8c0@homenet>

The mini-cam boards will be in the 2nd of June. I'll 
be shipping the following week. So get ready... or 
whatever you need to do. 

Fair Warning with this notice!

Tom 






From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri May 26 14:08:22 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 05:08:22 -0700
Subject: DIY CD
References: <000e01bfc547$73e06960$0100a8c0@homenet> <005401bfc705$ce737420$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <007101bfc70b$179e9620$0100a8c0@homenet>


Oh...I haven't had a chance to say thank's to each of you
personally yet but I will sit down tomorrow and do it. 

This is so cool.....and it's great for the list!

You know what? There a quite a few of  you out there these 
days. We (synth-diy) have bought over 5000 LM13600s
from Mouser over the last year. That's a lot of filters! I 
asked a few questions and put 2 and 2 together to get these
figures....unreal!

(sigh) I will probibly never see another HP for 10 bucks
at the thrift again...;-)

Tom





From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Fri May 26 16:12:30 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:12:30 GMT
Subject: Forat, Linn9000!!!
Message-ID: <20000526141230.85435.qmail@hotmail.com>

>Some ppl love it and thats great. I kinda like it, but not for what they 
>are
>asking.  I get the feeling akai completely dropped the ball when they
>released it with all the bugs it had and they are doing the same thing now
>with some of their newer flagship samplers.

Seams that Akai have given up the EMI market since t
hey sold the entire EMI R/D department to some dude in England!

>Unfortunately IMHO Akai is now treating the pro music division like they
>treat their consumer electronics division. "Get it out, be first with
>product, get their money, THEN worry about the bugs". I test consumer
>electronics for a living. You should see what akai/nec and some of the 
>other
>corps try to pass as saleable product. Ugh! ;))

Then tell us, i would for shure want to know so i can
avoid crappy designs that cost a fortune that some
economist in a suit are trying to sell.

AP

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From cyborg_0 at iquest.net  Fri May 26 16:36:57 2000
From: cyborg_0 at iquest.net (Rob)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:36:57 -0500
Subject: Forat, Linn9000!!!
References: <20000526141230.85435.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002901bfc71f$d9f21da0$4c05fea9@rob>


----- Original Message -----
From: Augusto Pinoche <augustopinoche at hotmail.com>
To: <cyborg_0 at iquest.net>; <theoms at nettaxi.com>;
<synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Forat, Linn9000!!!


> >Some ppl love it and thats great. I kinda like it, but not for what they
> >are
> >asking.  I get the feeling akai completely dropped the ball when they
> >released it with all the bugs it had and they are doing the same thing
now
> >with some of their newer flagship samplers.
>
> Seams that Akai have given up the EMI market since t
> hey sold the entire EMI R/D department to some dude in England!
>
> >Unfortunately IMHO Akai is now treating the pro music division like they
> >treat their consumer electronics division. "Get it out, be first with
> >product, get their money, THEN worry about the bugs". I test consumer
> >electronics for a living. You should see what akai/nec and some of the
> >other
> >corps try to pass as saleable product. Ugh! ;))
>
> Then tell us, i would for shure want to know so i can
> avoid crappy designs that cost a fortune that some
> economist in a suit are trying to sell.
>
> AP


Well, as of about a week ago, some of our "suits" have started making deals
to procure purchased product *without* it first being evaluated by my dept.
The last time we did this it was a *COMPLETE* disaster and the name brand we
represent has never recovered completely from that bad product floating
around. I mean, they didnt even start the documentation training for the
support center so when ppl called with a problem the ppl at the support
number listed on the box the support ppl didnt even know we had that
product! That made a bad thing even worse.

They decided to go down this road again against all common sense, so,
needless to say, Im looking for a new job to preempt this skullduggery.

Due to legal reasons, I cannot single out names since it *could* cause a
severe problem when we are making deals with vendors. Privately, though, I
could do this.

Rob





From rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu  Fri May 26 18:09:51 2000
From: rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu (Robert H. Rickner-III)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:09:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Forat, Linn9000!!!
In-Reply-To: <000901bfc6bd$72fd8880$4c05fea9@rob>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.21.0005261208290.75068-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>

Speaking of Sequencers, and off the topic of DIY...  Does anyone know a
good software based sequencer that uses patterns instead of linear
tracking, having started from mod trackers/fasttracker I'm much more
comfurtable in that kind of environment.
Rob






From edusilva at bahianet.com.br  Fri May 26 20:12:48 2000
From: edusilva at bahianet.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:12:48 -0300
Subject: HP to PCB & PNL
References: <004301bfc701$9de21f40$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <392EBEA0.44FD70AF@bahianet.com.br>

Do you know this?

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/3215/plotter.htm

It's a home made plotter, made of (if I remember well) printer parts.
You can use a print head instead of the pen, if you prefer.


Edu Silva  -  ES2 Audio
Salvador  Bahia  Brazil


tomg wrote:
> 
> I just spent the last 30 minuets disassembling a working HP DeskJet
> I picked up at the thrift for $10 (minus the power supply). These
> things keep popping up really cheep and I've been thinking of a
> pcb printer ever sense we talked about using a plotter with easytraks.





From vi8mjuan at kyamk.fi  Fri May 26 23:47:50 2000
From: vi8mjuan at kyamk.fi (Jukka Andersson)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:47:50 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Forat, Linn9000!!!
In-Reply-To: <003601bfc76a$bcf81920$0100a8c0@homenet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005270046420.8171-100000@aeryn.kyamk.fi>

need to know also!

so we have here these:
cubase
logic audio
acid
lasvegas

which one is best for price/quality

-jukke


On Fri, 26 May 2000, tomg wrote:

>How much do you want to spend? Cubase and Logic are the top of the
>pile. Each come in a "lite" version. Cubasis is about $90 and does the
>job nicely. If you mean sample sequencers, the easiest to use is Acid 
>but Vegas is a lot better IMO.
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>> Speaking of Sequencers, and off the topic of DIY...  Does anyone know a
>> good software based sequencer that uses patterns instead of linear
>> tracking, having started from mod trackers/fasttracker I'm much more
>> comfurtable in that kind of environment.
>> Rob
>
>






From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Sat May 27 00:14:13 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:14:13 -0700
Subject: Envelope gen operation
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18E4@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Yo, list,

I have a question on ADSR operation: If you get a trigger event without a gate
event, how do you expect the ADSR to respond? Does it do a full AR cycle? Does
it do nothing? Does it do a truncated AR cycle the width of the trigger pulse??



Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     




From aaronc at ori.org  Sat May 27 01:01:42 2000
From: aaronc at ori.org (Aaron Cram)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:01:42 -0700
Subject: Pattern Sequencer Software  (Was: Forat, Linn9000!!!)
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0005261208290.75068-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <392F0256.68C4F1C1@ori.org>



"Robert H. Rickner-III" wrote:

> Speaking of Sequencers, and off the topic of DIY...  Does anyone know a
> good software based sequencer that uses patterns instead of linear
> tracking, having started from mod trackers/fasttracker I'm much more
> comfurtable in that kind of environment.
> Rob

Well, if your talking about the Windows platform, then this is something I
know alot about.  I have searched the 'net high and low for a sequencer
that I could stand to use.  I downloaded a lot of demo versions and read a
lot of manuals.  I never found what I was looking for.

There seems to be only 2 types of sequencers:  "Trackers" and "MIDI
Recorders."  MIDI Recorders are programs like Cakewalk, Cubase, and Logic.
They have their uses, but in general I don't like to use them.  They seem
to me like glorified tape recorders:  you hit "record" and then it records
the MIDI notes that you play.  Of course you can also use the mouse to
enter notes on a score or piano roll, but these are designed more for
editing notes that are already there than for making a song from scratch.
They are also expensive and overly complicated.

The only other alternative is Trackers (MED, FastTraker, BUZZ, etc.)  I
like this type of interface much better.  It was designed for _programming_
songs, not for _recording_ them.  The problem with trackers is that they
are designed around sample-playback.  Most of them don't even support
MIDI.  If they do support MIDI, it is always incomplete,  incorrectly
implemented, and almost useless.

What I wanted was a tracker-like program that was built with the MIDI
protocol in mind from the beginning.  So, what does a DIYer do when he
wants something that doesn't exist?  Yup.  (At least I'm more on-topic
now...)  I've been programming my own sequencer now for over a year.  It
will probably be another year before I feel comfortable unleashing it on
the Web.  But all the basic functionality is already implemented and
working.  As you might have guessed from my above ranting, it is a hybrid
between a "MIDI Recorder" and "Tracker."  I have also worked hard to make
almost everything work in "real-time."  So, you can edit a pattern while it
is playing in a loop, and you are continuously hearing what you are doing.
Above all else, I'm trying to make everything as simple and intuitive as
possible.  (That's actually the hard part.)

So, if you share some of my opinions on the current state of PC sequencer
programs, then I might have just the thing for you.  Someday.  (It might be
awhile, I've started building a synth as well, which is of course why I'm
on this wonderful list.  :)

In the meantime, the best tracker I've ever used is called NoiseTrekker.  I
like it because it reminds me of MED on my old Amiga.  It has a built-in
"303/Rebirth" thing, synth/effects based on CSound, and of course the
traditional samples.  It supports MIDI, but not very well.  It's also free
and comes with the source code!
Here's the link already:
http://noisetrekker.cjb.net/

While I'm spewing forth links, here's a few more:

If you have a soundcard and a PC, you can use this to tune your analog
synth:  (It's free!)
http://alpha.bzlogi.hu/~laci/minituner.html

A Cubase-like sequencer called Massiva:  (Also free!)
http://home.c2i.net/jaase/massiva.htm

Where to find audio software for PC:
http://www.sonicspot.com




-Aaron





From efm3 at mediaone.net  Sat May 27 01:32:55 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:32:55 -0700
Subject: Forat, Linn9000!!!
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0005261208290.75068-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <003601bfc76a$bcf81920$0100a8c0@homenet>

How much do you want to spend? Cubase and Logic are the top of the
pile. Each come in a "lite" version. Cubasis is about $90 and does the
job nicely. If you mean sample sequencers, the easiest to use is Acid 
but Vegas is a lot better IMO.

Tom



> Speaking of Sequencers, and off the topic of DIY...  Does anyone know a
> good software based sequencer that uses patterns instead of linear
> tracking, having started from mod trackers/fasttracker I'm much more
> comfurtable in that kind of environment.
> Rob





From skin_job at hotmail.com  Sat May 27 01:44:02 2000
From: skin_job at hotmail.com (skinny bastard)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:44:02 GMT
Subject: noise
Message-ID: <20000526234402.92459.qmail@hotmail.com>

Okay, I am in the mood to build something that resembles alot of the music I 
listen to.
I want noise! None of this "clean fuzz" crap! I WANT ABRASIVE! Think 
merzbow.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone out there knew of any designs for either 
noisy, noisy  filters/fuzz boxes/anything else. Just want to play around 
with butchering pure sound. If anyone knows of a good premade box, that will 
work too. Remember: dirty sound.

Thank You,
James Tiller
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From bgarland at nebdesign.com  Sat May 27 01:51:11 2000
From: bgarland at nebdesign.com (Benjamin Garland)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:51:11 -0400
Subject: Sequencers (was Re: Forat, Linn9000!!!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005270046420.8171-100000@aeryn.kyamk.fi>
Message-ID: <200005262258.AAA28319@node12b53.a2000.nl>

I have used Cubase VST/24 in the past but I switched to Logic Audio Platinum. In
my opinion, Logic is much more advanced, configurable, and customizable. It has
a steeper learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, Logic is much more
user friendly and will let you do just about anything you want. It seems Cubase
is much more confined.

For instance, one of my favorite features is that Logic lets you set up "window
sets" where you can toggle back and forth between any sets of windows you
define. For instance you can choose set 1 to be a mixer window and transport
controls, set 2 to be a midi editor window, set 3 to be a waveform editor
window, and so forth. I think you can have up to 99 sets. It is very handy and I
couldn't live without it. In other sequencers you just end up with a mess of
different windows overlapping everywhere.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. Logic is, no pun intended, more logical
(once you get used to how it works).


Ben





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat May 27 03:12:23 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:12:23 -0400
Subject: noise
References: <20000526234402.92459.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <392F20F6.90E3021D@prodigy.net>

Attn fatherless waif.... (et al)

I assume you know about GEO site (guitar effects oriented) and the R.G. Keen
site...
a search engine should pop them up nicely. They will have links to others...

IMHO the most hellacious nasty sounding fuzz is a precision half wave rectifier.

SEE ATTACHED.  I built this circuit and hated it (for audio distortion) it is
NOT
melodious !!!  What u want ???

BTW you can put a preamp in front ot it, and or mix in some dry (no effect)
signal
after it.  Enjoy.

H^)

skinny bastard wrote:

> Okay, I am in the mood to build something that resembles alot of the music I
> listen to.
> I want noise! None of this "clean fuzz" crap! I WANT ABRASIVE! Think
> merzbow.
> Anyway, I was wondering if anyone out there knew of any designs for either
> noisy, noisy  filters/fuzz boxes/anything else. Just want to play around
> with butchering pure sound. If anyone knows of a good premade box, that will
> work too. Remember: dirty sound.
>
> Thank You,
> James Tiller
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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From t.hogers at home.nl  Sat May 27 03:14:34 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 03:14:34 +0200
Subject: Pattern Sequencer Software  (Was: Forat, Linn9000!!!)
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0005261208290.75068-100000@gnu.uvm.edu> <392F0256.68C4F1C1@ori.org>
Message-ID: <000901bfc778$eb660d40$0400a8c0@Theo>

>
> "Robert H. Rickner-III" wrote:
>
> > Speaking of Sequencers, and off the topic of DIY...  Does anyone know a
> > good software based sequencer that uses patterns instead of linear
> > tracking, having started from mod trackers/fasttracker I'm much more
> > comfurtable in that kind of environment.
> > Rob
>


The liniar sequencers can be used as pattern seq. too.
Basically everything a mod tracker can do can also be done with logic,
cuebase, cackewalk or what ever.
The only dif. is that these sequencers can do a hell of a lot more, therefor
they may look a little intimidating at first.
You may find them easier to work with than a tracker once you get the hang
of it (lets say after half a day or so).

Personally I like to write short midi patterns using the score editor, the
key editor will also work fine.
The patterns are all on a dumy track, then I copy to other tracks where I
need the patterns.

For sample sequencing just set the grit to 1/4 or so.
You can then  easely place the samples on the beats.
Group the samples to create a "pattern" that can be easely copied and pasted
as a whole.

You can even make "biger" groups that form a whole chorus or bridge and
include both midi and audio.
Arranging was never so easy.

If the only thing you looking for is sample seq. you may want to look into
Acid.
This is a easy to use sample seq. with a cool feature, realtime time
stretching, this is not found on any other program I am aware of.


Hope this helps,
Cheers Theo

PS. Take a peek at http://www.tidalmusic.com and go to english > products>
Step One.
The side is underconstruction and even the page is not finished jet.
Even so the Step One may intrest you.






From jlarryh at iquest.net  Sat May 27 03:54:11 2000
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:54:11 -0500
Subject: Envelope gen operation
Message-ID: <200005270054.CAA28544@node12b53.a2000.nl>

> From: Tim Ressel <Tim_R1 at verifone.com>
> 
> I have a question on ADSR operation: If you get a trigger event without a
gate
> event, how do you expect the ADSR to respond? Does it do a full AR cycle?
Does
> it do nothing? Does it do a truncated AR cycle the width of the trigger
pulse??

I would expect full AR cycle from a ADSR when triggered with trigger only. 
The only modular EGs I own are the MOTM-800s.  They are set up to hold the
gate high with no gate applied.  So, the A and D knobs function as A-R
envelope.  The release control does nothing as the gate never goes low. 
The sustain needs to be all the way down or the output voltage is biased at
the sustain level at all times.

Bottom line, triggers can be stretched A-R style.

Larry H





From svetengr at earthlink.net  Sat May 27 08:53:19 2000
From: svetengr at earthlink.net (eric)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:53:19 -0700
Subject: new tube synth--thanks for the response
Message-ID: <392F70DF.76427C6@earthlink.com>

Thank you, Rob, for posting that message.

And thanks to the DIYers who responded. It's nice to hear that
some of you are seriously interested!
I should have the kit ready in a few weeks.

We will have the $100 version with the PC board and instructions,
or a $250 kit including board, all components on the board, 
tubes, sockets, ICs, front panel pots and switches.

I/O connectors will be left up to the builder, I think--
I prefer 1/4" jacks, but many people would rather have 
minijacks or bananas.

(Sorry, no chassis or pwr supply can be included at this time
--it's expensive to ship, esp to Europe, where most of the interest
seems to be. I think you guys can get a cabinet and power
supply locally there, certainly for much less money.)

Keep watching the Metasonix site for it (and other
new products on the way).

---------------
Eric Barbour
METASONIX



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Sat May 27 09:32:05 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:32:05 -0700
Subject: noise
References: <20000526234402.92459.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001bfc7ad$adeb1e80$0100a8c0@homenet>


house-trash 101.......way way way...OT.....

Think 8/12bit samples...find an old Yamaha TX612 ( is that right?) Whatever
it is that runs the Typhoon OS and make sure you get Typhoon with it on
the original disk. No Typhoon DO NOT! buy it. The original OS is total
crap. I used to have one of these....I'm so glad to be rid of it. I miss 
Typhoon now and then....but nah! Amiga computers are especially keen
for this kind of thing. Be sure to get one with some memory and a HD.

Most bands/sound manipulators have a limited budget to begin with so they
use crap equipment and make-do with whatever. This more often than not
this creates an immediate... rough sound. As they make more money their 
equipment and production gets better and it looses that hard edge that 
everyone liked to start with....anyway think crap. The worst stuff you can 
find. Especially bad/noise effect pedals.. and then add distortion of some
kind to almost everything. Be sure to throw in some ultra clean and quite 
sections so the hard stuff seems even harder when it hits again...;-)

Tom



> Okay, I am in the mood to build something that resembles alot of the music I 
> listen to.
> I want noise! None of this "clean fuzz" crap! I WANT ABRASIVE! Think 
> merzbow.
> Anyway, I was wondering if anyone out there knew of any designs for either 
> noisy, noisy  filters/fuzz boxes/anything else. Just want to play around 
> with butchering pure sound. If anyone knows of a good premade box, that will 
> work too. Remember: dirty sound.
> 
> Thank You,
> James Tiller
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> 




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Sat May 27 09:44:51 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:44:51 -0700
Subject: Pattern Sequencer Software  (Was: Forat, Linn9000!!!)
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0005261208290.75068-100000@gnu.uvm.edu> <392F0256.68C4F1C1@ori.org> <000901bfc778$eb660d40$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <002201bfc7af$75caea60$0100a8c0@homenet>

Here is an absolutely Free midi/audio seq for widoze.

http://go.to/massiva

Feature list captured from their page....pretty dammed impressive.
Anybody used this.

Tom


Edit music in real-time with undo
Step record notes with MIDI- or PC-keyboard
Step record program change and control change with PC-keyboard
Auto-compose MIDI volume, panning or any control change message in sync with
music
Auto-compose simple drum, bass or chord patterns in seconds
Read and write Standard MIDI files
32 MIDI/Audio tracks with unlimited number of parts
Bank, program and MIDI device select on each track
Parts may be grouped into blocks or patterns.
Store areas like "intro", "break" and "2nd verse" for fast navigation
Move notes with [left], [right], [up] and [down] keys
Resize notes and parts with [alt] and [left], [right] keys
Visual editing of velocity and control change
Real time MIDI fades for adjusting/recording control change messages
Groove quantize
MIDI Time Code (master) and MICI clock
Integrated mixer for MIDI, Audio, CD etc
Favorite folders for songs and samples
Audio effects




> >
> > "Robert H. Rickner-III" wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking of Sequencers, and off the topic of DIY...  Does anyone know a
> > > good software based sequencer that uses patterns instead of linear
> > > tracking, having started from mod trackers/fasttracker I'm much more
> > > comfurtable in that kind of environment.
> > > Rob
> >
>
>
> The liniar sequencers can be used as pattern seq. too.
> Basically everything a mod tracker can do can also be done with logic,
> cuebase, cackewalk or what ever.
> The only dif. is that these sequencers can do a hell of a lot more, therefor
> they may look a little intimidating at first.
> You may find them easier to work with than a tracker once you get the hang
> of it (lets say after half a day or so).
>
> Personally I like to write short midi patterns using the score editor, the
> key editor will also work fine.
> The patterns are all on a dumy track, then I copy to other tracks where I
> need the patterns.
>
> For sample sequencing just set the grit to 1/4 or so.
> You can then  easely place the samples on the beats.
> Group the samples to create a "pattern" that can be easely copied and pasted
> as a whole.
>
> You can even make "biger" groups that form a whole chorus or bridge and
> include both midi and audio.
> Arranging was never so easy.
>
> If the only thing you looking for is sample seq. you may want to look into
> Acid.
> This is a easy to use sample seq. with a cool feature, realtime time
> stretching, this is not found on any other program I am aware of.
>
>
> Hope this helps,
> Cheers Theo
>
> PS. Take a peek at http://www.tidalmusic.com and go to english > products>
> Step One.
> The side is underconstruction and even the page is not finished jet.
> Even so the Step One may intrest you.
>
>
>




From kirke at lmi.net  Sat May 27 12:27:46 2000
From: kirke at lmi.net (Kirke Sonnichsen)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 03:27:46 -0700
Subject: Envelope gen operation
Message-ID: <v02130501b5555240657a@[208.25.89.71]>

I would expect no output. The trigger input on ADSRs that
I've use is simply a "reset" of the transient (with the
gate function being a "state" change i.e., off/on).

- Kirke
(former aires phaser-builder)


>Yo, list,
>
>I have a question on ADSR operation: If you get a trigger event without a gate
>event, how do you expect the ADSR to respond? Does it do a full AR cycle? Does
>it do nothing? Does it do a truncated AR cycle the width of the trigger pulse??
>
>
>
>Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
>Hewlett-Packard
>Verifone Division
>916-630-2541  
>tim_r1 at verifone.com                     





From rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu  Sat May 27 15:14:50 2000
From: rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu (Rob Rickner)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:14:50 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: midi SW sequencers]
Message-ID: <392FCA4A.7E196993@zoo.uvm.edu>

Eric Barbour wanted this answer passed on:
-------------- next part --------------
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Subject: midi SW sequencers
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:33:39 -0700
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From DCMagnuson at aol.com  Sat May 27 18:06:24 2000
From: DCMagnuson at aol.com (DCMagnuson at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:06:24 EDT
Subject: Hacking a Boss DR-110
Message-ID: <c1.3936ce8.26614c80@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

Someone just handed me a Boss DR-110 drum machine, and asked me to hack it up 
for them.  I've already located a set of schematics online as well as a 
simple DIN-sync modification.  

Has anyone else chopped one of these up?  I'm looking to add tuning and decay 
pots to many of the sounds, as well as possibly building a stereo mixer with 
panning to control the internal sounds a little better.... 

Also, the DIN-sync mod I found sets the tempo, but doesn't control the 
start/stop function... if anyone has some pointers to make this thing 
start/stop in time, I'd appreciate it.  I imagine it's a relatively easy 
thing to do, but I don't know much about DIN-sync.  What type of signals 
should I expect to see on the start/stop line?   

Thanks in advance everyone,

Dave Magnuson



From debus at cityweb.de  Sat May 27 19:43:34 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 19:43:34 +0200
Subject: Lost mails
Message-ID: <39300946.2F425FE@cityweb.de>

Hi all,

seems I've lost the last 30 or so mails from this list before I got a
chance to read them :-(. So, if anyone responded on the list to my last
guitar-synth-rants, could he please re-send these mails to me (off list,
of course)?

A strange thing happened here with Netscape (Mac version 4.7): it
displayed there were 28 (or so) unread mails in my "Synth-DIY" mail
folder (I have a message filter to move the list's mails into this
folder), but there was only one unread mail shown in the subjects pane
(the pane showing subjects, senders, dates etc. above the message text pane).
Quitting the program and restarting the computer didn't change anything
about that. Then I tried to do a "clean up wasted space" (Folder info
window), hoping the mails would re-appear. But nope, now they seem to
have vanished completely, along with some recent mails I already had
read. Strange....

Ingo





From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Sat May 27 22:28:24 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 20:28:24 GMT
Subject: HP to PCB & PNL
Message-ID: <20000527202824.38373.qmail@hotmail.com>

Why not an old HP or Roland X/Y plotter!
change the pen head to a mounting head and you
could have a assembling machine for your PCB's!

NKAP



>From: "tomg" <efm3 at mediaone.net>
>To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: HP to PCB & PNL
>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 04:00:31 -0700
>
>I just spent the last 30 minuets disassembling a working HP DeskJet
>I picked up at the thrift for $10 (minus the power supply). These
>things keep popping up really cheep and I've been thinking of a
>pcb printer ever sense we talked about using a plotter with easytraks.
>
>The point being ... I think it can be done.  The way the head moves
>on the assembly it pretty straight forward. I think with a few mods
>to the case and adding a micro adjuster ( spring & wing-nut) on each
>side this will work and might even print panels!!
>
>The problem is moving the material through the printer. I'm thinking
>some sort of large rubber belt about the thickness of a inner-tube
>using the printer motor that pulls the paper as a drive. A flat table and
>a free wheel on the back ( maybe another printer mech..;-)  I
>suppose I'll have to come up with pinch rollers too but I still think
>it will work. Has anyone thought/tried this?
>
>Tom
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From thescum at surfree.com  Sat May 27 22:42:53 2000
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 16:42:53 -0400
Subject: Hacking a Boss DR-110
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000527204253.009a8e68@smtp.surfree.com>

>Also, the DIN-sync mod I found sets the tempo, but doesn't control the 
>start/stop function... if anyone has some pointers to make this thing 
>start/stop in time, I'd appreciate it.  I imagine it's a relatively easy 
>thing to do, but I don't know much about DIN-sync.  What type of signals 
>should I expect to see on the start/stop line?   

If I remember correctly, the start/stop line of DIN sync is 5V for "running"
and 0V for "not running."  There may be a "Reset" line in there as well,
which tells the instrument to continue it's sequence from where it was
stoppped.  I think that if the reset is asserted when the start line rises,
it's a "Start-from-beginning" command, otherwise, it's a
"start-where-you-were" command.

The precise impedances, currents, etc you should expect to use in DIN sync.
If you can find the schems for the TR808, you can probably deduce some of
that info from it.

Byron Jacquot




From psnow at magma.ca  Sat May 27 23:43:36 2000
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:43:36 -0400
Subject: noise
References: <20000526234402.92459.qmail@hotmail.com> <3930D925.BE1B6F87@zoo.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <39304188.3B2827D9@magma.ca>

Take a look at the Zoom 510 Dual Driver.  It contains 2 distortion
sections that can be run in serial or parallel mode. You'll get the most
distortion in the serial mode with the level of both sections up full.
You can play with the other settings and adjust to taste.  And in case
you change your mind, there is a noise reduction section :)

You can get these used quite cheap ($50 or even less), and depending on
your requirements, there are some other effects built in that you may
find useful too.

Cheers,

Peter

> 
> > Okay, I am in the mood to build something that resembles alot of the music I
> > listen to.
> > I want noise! None of this "clean fuzz" crap! I WANT ABRASIVE! Think
> > merzbow.



From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun May 28 00:09:04 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 00:09:04 +0200
Subject: Pattern Sequencer Software  (Was: Forat, Linn9000!!!)
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0005261208290.75068-100000@gnu.uvm.edu> <392F0256.68C4F1C1@ori.org> <000901bfc778$eb660d40$0400a8c0@Theo> <3930D6B4.7ECE77FC@zoo.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <002101bfc828$2bfcd460$0400a8c0@Theo>

Seems that what works for one may not work for another.
Cubase and logic don't cut it for you and arrangement on rebirth seems
akward to me...
(I hated editing the 303 in real live let alone on a pc screen)

If you mean realtime "live" mixing and arrangeing I agree with you,
the big name seq. are not made for that.
Basically that is why I am working on the StepOne.
It is not another groove box, the StepOne is more like an instrument that
you have to play.
You play the StepOne by creating and arranging midi loops in real time.
For recording songs the way to go is to record the "preformance" in to CB or
PT...
So this may still not be the one stop shopping option youre looking for.

Cheers Theo.


----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Rickner <rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>; synth-diy new <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Pattern Sequencer Software (Was: Forat, Linn9000!!!)


> > The liniar sequencers can be used as pattern seq. too.
> > Basically everything a mod tracker can do can also be done with logic,
> > cuebase, cackewalk or what ever.
> > The only dif. is that these sequencers can do a hell of a lot more,
therefor
> > they may look a little intimidating at first.
>
> I've been using Cakewalk and Cubase for about four years now, I'm looking
for
> the convenience and realtime song arrangement that comes with a program
like
> ReBirth's pattern sequencer.  I'd like to be able to just create patterns
then
> lay them out, hopefully in real time.  I don't see these programs
fufilling that
> need.  Bram Bos' program Pump seemed like it could be what I was looking
for,
> but in the end I haven't seen anything but the unstable Beta version.
Jazz+ is
> nice, but still too much of just a sequencer.  I use Cubase for audio
recording,
> I guess I've always thought of it as a super charged ADAT with effects for
a
> computer.  The VST plug in synths are less than attractive in comparison
to real
> analog.  I want realtime composition, not just another sequencer, it
didn't
> occur to how important this was until I went looking for it.  Think about
being
> able to DJ midi loops like they were on records.  So, maybe now I admit it
just
> hasn't happened yet?  While I'm at it I'd like to be able to adjust the
groove
> quantinization in realtime too....
>
> Rob
>




From rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu  Sun May 28 10:20:04 2000
From: rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu (Rob Rickner)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 04:20:04 -0400
Subject: Pattern Sequencer Software  (Was: Forat, Linn9000!!!)
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0005261208290.75068-100000@gnu.uvm.edu> <392F0256.68C4F1C1@ori.org> <000901bfc778$eb660d40$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <3930D6B4.7ECE77FC@zoo.uvm.edu>

> The liniar sequencers can be used as pattern seq. too.
> Basically everything a mod tracker can do can also be done with logic,
> cuebase, cackewalk or what ever.
> The only dif. is that these sequencers can do a hell of a lot more, therefor
> they may look a little intimidating at first.

I've been using Cakewalk and Cubase for about four years now, I'm looking for
the convenience and realtime song arrangement that comes with a program like
ReBirth's pattern sequencer.  I'd like to be able to just create patterns then
lay them out, hopefully in real time.  I don't see these programs fufilling that
need.  Bram Bos' program Pump seemed like it could be what I was looking for,
but in the end I haven't seen anything but the unstable Beta version.  Jazz+ is
nice, but still too much of just a sequencer.  I use Cubase for audio recording,
I guess I've always thought of it as a super charged ADAT with effects for a
computer.  The VST plug in synths are less than attractive in comparison to real
analog.  I want realtime composition, not just another sequencer, it didn't
occur to how important this was until I went looking for it.  Think about being
able to DJ midi loops like they were on records.  So, maybe now I admit it just
hasn't happened yet?  While I'm at it I'd like to be able to adjust the groove
quantinization in realtime too....

Rob




From rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu  Sun May 28 10:30:29 2000
From: rrickner at zoo.uvm.edu (Rob Rickner)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 04:30:29 -0400
Subject: noise
References: <20000526234402.92459.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3930D925.BE1B6F87@zoo.uvm.edu>

> Okay, I am in the mood to build something that resembles alot of the music I
> listen to.
> I want noise! None of this "clean fuzz" crap! I WANT ABRASIVE! Think
> merzbow.

Well, I've had a lot of luck mixing samples with noise then distorting them...
Try the noiseswash pedal for doubled up distortion you can find scematics at
www.angelfire.com/mo/commonsound I think I got the link right.  Otherwise, two
pro-co Rats are really excellent for abrasive.  In general, Either distort a
sound that's noisey or use two distortion pedals.  A combo like a big muff then
Real Tube Overdrive gives a truely thick product.  As far as DIY goes, try
www.geofex.com they have a modular distortion system they're working on.  It
would be easy to build a pedal that doubles up on the gain and clipping stages
of some classic pedals.  Also, Tomg's right.  How hard something sounds is
relative to what's around it.  I find Autechre rather abrasive at times while
Merzbow is quite relaxing once I get used to it.
Rob





From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Sun May 28 12:01:27 2000
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 11:01:27 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Temp. Co. Resistors/UK
Message-ID: <20000528100127.27858.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com>

Can any one point me in direction of a distributer in
the UK, who sells TC resistors?
Regards to all, Ken

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie



From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun May 28 13:30:17 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:30:17 +0200
Subject: new scans: some JH-720 schemos
Message-ID: <001d01bfc898$1b9e3300$193f363e@jhaible>

After some hesitation over the last months, I've decided to put up some
of the JH-720 circuits. I hope you like them.

http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/additional_schemos.html

JH.





From daugard at sprintmail.com  Sun May 28 16:31:04 2000
From: daugard at sprintmail.com (Tim Daugard)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 09:31:04 -0500
Subject: Envelope gen operation
References: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18E4@SMF-NT-MAIL1>
Message-ID: <004d01bfc8b2$5d9f0620$87fbbfa8@laptop>

Yo, Tim,

That's a good question! I haven't built my ADSR yet - but I was going to use
note on to control it.

>on ADSR operation: If you get a trigger event without a gate event

I was figuring on creating trigger events from diferentiated "note on"s I
hadn't thought about two different inputs. Anyway:

ADSR module Trigger only:

    Full Attack
    Full Decay
    immediately to (logic "Decay complete" AND NOT "Note On")
    Full Release

how do you expect the ADSR to respond? Does it do a full AR cycle? Does
it do nothing? Does it do a truncated AR cycle the width of the trigger
pulse??

Now my all ready built AR module does nothing if there is no "Note on". It
relys on the note on for Attack (capacitor charge) and the no "Note on" for
decay.

Tim Daugard




From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Sun May 28 17:55:23 2000
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:55:23 +0100
Subject: Envelope gen operation
Message-ID: <000301bfc8be$e9019640$da2d883e@default>


There seem to be two approaches to this:

1. Simple designs go through the ADS part of the envelope
    until the gate stops, then go into the release stage.   If you
    apply a trigger pulse, the behaviour of envelope depends on
    the ADSR settings plus the gate duration.  With a long attack
    and short trigger nothing much will happen - the attack hardly
    gets started before release sets in.  With a longer gate pulse
    and relatively fast A and D times, you might get a very short
    but complete ADSR cycle.  These types are quite expressive
    when controlled by a keyboard gate, but not so good off
    trigger.

2.  Some designs won't go into decay until the attack phase has
     finished.  I would expect these to go through the full ADR cycle
     with no sustain time.  These are more useful for triggered
     sounds (percussion etc) but very frustrating when played from
     a keyboard - especially if you hit a wrong note.  The Moog Rogue
     does this...

You should take a look at the Digisound 80-18 envelope generator
schematics - I think they're up on Ander' website. This ADSR had
a choice of triggering modes so it could be used usefully with gates
or triggers (or both).   You can't get the CEM3310s any more, but it's
a source of good ideas.


Steve Ridley






-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Ressel <Tim_R1 at verifone.com>
To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Date: 26 May 2000 23:42
Subject: Envelope gen operation


>Yo, list,
>
>I have a question on ADSR operation: If you get a trigger event without a
gate
>event, how do you expect the ADSR to respond? Does it do a full AR cycle?
Does
>it do nothing? Does it do a truncated AR cycle the width of the trigger
pulse??
>
>
>
>Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
>Hewlett-Packard
>Verifone Division
>916-630-2541
>tim_r1 at verifone.com
>
>




From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Sun May 28 18:06:53 2000
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:06:53 +0100
Subject: noise
Message-ID: <000401bfc8be$e9b8b140$da2d883e@default>

Do what everyone else says, then stick it through a
ring modulator.  That should get rid of any lingering
traces of harmony...  If you're into real harmonic 
butchery, a ring modulator is the way to go.

Failing that, write the music out and get a child to try
playing it on a violin (c:


> Think merzbow.

Who or what is Merzbow?


Steve Ridley





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun May 28 19:05:49 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:05:49 -0400
Subject: Envelope gen operation
References: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18E4@SMF-NT-MAIL1> <004d01bfc8b2$5d9f0620$87fbbfa8@laptop>
Message-ID: <393151EC.10A27E83@prodigy.net>

Im using AR generators, but might have some input...

I have two modes of operation, latched and non-latched.
In latched mode, a gate will cause a full ASR cycle, as long as the gate is
longer than the attack time..
The trigger (same input but pulsed...) gives AR

In non latched mode, the Attack continues only as long as gate is high, or until
the peak level is reached. If the gate goes low during the attack, the decay
starts right away.

for an ADSR gen, I'd put the AD in latched mode controlled by trigger. I'd
generate the trigger from the gate, then OR it with the external trigger, so
that the attack and decay would repeat from the sustain level...

H^)

Tim Daugard wrote:

> Yo, Tim,
>
> That's a good question! I haven't built my ADSR yet - but I was going to use
> note on to control it.
>
> >on ADSR operation: If you get a trigger event without a gate event
>
> I was figuring on creating trigger events from diferentiated "note on"s I
> hadn't thought about two different inputs. Anyway:
>
> ADSR module Trigger only:
>
>     Full Attack
>     Full Decay
>     immediately to (logic "Decay complete" AND NOT "Note On")
>     Full Release
>
> how do you expect the ADSR to respond? Does it do a full AR cycle? Does
> it do nothing? Does it do a truncated AR cycle the width of the trigger
> pulse??
>
> Now my all ready built AR module does nothing if there is no "Note on". It
> relys on the note on for Attack (capacitor charge) and the no "Note on" for
> decay.
>
> Tim Daugard




From grichter at execpc.com  Sun May 28 19:09:41 2000
From: grichter at execpc.com (Grant Richter)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:09:41 -0500
Subject: Envelope gen operation
Message-ID: <200005281709.MAA20604@mailgw02.execpc.com>

The "classic" designs such as the Electronotes design
will do nothing with a trigger only. The original key
board logic would not produce a trigger unless it
also produced a gate.

----------
>From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh at iquest.net>
>To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: Re: Envelope gen operation
>Date: Fri, May 26, 2000, 8:54 PM
>

>> From: Tim Ressel <Tim_R1 at verifone.com>
>>
>> I have a question on ADSR operation: If you get a trigger event without a
> gate
>> event, how do you expect the ADSR to respond? Does it do a full AR cycle?
> Does
>> it do nothing? Does it do a truncated AR cycle the width of the trigger
> pulse??
>
> I would expect full AR cycle from a ADSR when triggered with trigger only.
> The only modular EGs I own are the MOTM-800s.  They are set up to hold the
> gate high with no gate applied.  So, the A and D knobs function as A-R
> envelope.  The release control does nothing as the gate never goes low.
> The sustain needs to be all the way down or the output voltage is biased at
> the sustain level at all times.
>
> Bottom line, triggers can be stretched A-R style.
>
> Larry H
>
> 



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sun May 28 19:38:43 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:38:43 EDT
Subject: noise
Message-ID: <7c.618a571.2662b3a3@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/27/00 1:46:11 PM, you wrote:

<<Take a look at the Zoom 510 Dual Driver.  It contains 2 distortion
sections that can be run in serial or parallel mode. >>

Hello Peter,

Are the distortion circuits in the Zoom Driver analog circuits, or are they 
some kind of digital distortion?

Michael Bacich



From t02e at hotmail.com  Sun May 28 21:52:14 2000
From: t02e at hotmail.com (walter carpenter)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:52:14 PDT
Subject: noise
Message-ID: <20000528195214.17178.qmail@hotmail.com>

I wouldn't suggest buying for the sole purpose of making noise, but I find I
can get some great sounds from creating a feedback loop with a DD-5 digital
delay pedel. since it has an extra output for panning, just send that back
to the input, and you have a little noise source box. just twist all the
knobs around and have fun.
BTW, I love the DD-5 I suggest everyone give it a try, I put it in between
normal patches on my modular, just to get some nice random things happening


-walter carpenter




________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From jlarryh at iquest.net  Mon May 29 05:26:30 2000
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:26:30 -0500
Subject: Envelope gen operation
Message-ID: <200005290226.EAA03413@node12b53.a2000.nl>

Certainly true Grant.  However, EGs can be useful in this mode when using
other type controllers that produce trigger only, like say a drum pad or...

Larry H

----------
> From: Grant Richter <grichter at execpc.com>
> To: J. Larry Hendry <jlarryh at iquest.net>; synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
> Subject: Re: Envelope gen operation
> Date: Sunday, May 28, 2000 12:09 PM
> 
> The "classic" designs such as the Electronotes design
> will do nothing with a trigger only. The original key
> board logic would not produce a trigger unless it
> also produced a gate.
> 
> ----------
> >From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh at iquest.net>
> >To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> >Subject: Re: Envelope gen operation
> >Date: Fri, May 26, 2000, 8:54 PM
> >
> 
> >> From: Tim Ressel <Tim_R1 at verifone.com>
> >>
> >> I have a question on ADSR operation: If you get a trigger event
without a
> > gate
> >> event, how do you expect the ADSR to respond? Does it do a full AR
cycle?
> > Does
> >> it do nothing? Does it do a truncated AR cycle the width of the
trigger
> > pulse??
> >
> > I would expect full AR cycle from a ADSR when triggered with trigger
only.
> > The only modular EGs I own are the MOTM-800s.  They are set up to hold
the
> > gate high with no gate applied.  So, the A and D knobs function as A-R
> > envelope.  The release control does nothing as the gate never goes low.
> > The sustain needs to be all the way down or the output voltage is
biased at
> > the sustain level at all times.
> >
> > Bottom line, triggers can be stretched A-R style.
> >
> > Larry H
> >
> > 





From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon May 29 11:37:47 2000
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:37:47 +0100 (BST)
Subject: PCB Mounting Rotary SW
Message-ID: <20000529093747.22658.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all, Anyone got any idea where I can get horizontal
PCB mounting rotary switches in the UK. I need 2 pole
6way jobs. Many thanks to those who have responded to
my prevoius queries...Ken

____________________________________________________________
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From dbosten at hotmail.com  Mon May 29 12:59:21 2000
From: dbosten at hotmail.com (danny bosten)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 03:59:21 PDT
Subject: noise
Message-ID: <20000529105921.23877.qmail@hotmail.com>

hello there,
actually you don't need to buy anything at all to get crunchy, when I want 
distortion, I plug a line-out into a mic-in, turn up the gain. I use old 
cassette-deck for this too: plug anything into the mic-in-right, take the 
right-output and plug it back into the left-mic-in! Guys like Merzbow make 
their noises by creating a lot of cross-linked looped patches with a mixer 
with lots of effects-sends going to effects-pedals (guitar-effects) looping 
them back into the mixer... when some sort of modulation is added you get 
all sorts of weird self-sustaining evolving noise-scapes...etc... anyway, 
check out my MP3 track 'interference' on MP3.com/bulk eraser...the noise was 
'made' by moving a bare oscillator circuit in front of a pc-monitor...
bye,
Danny B.
________________________________________________________________________
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From czech at Micronas.Com  Mon May 29 14:14:45 2000
From: czech at Micronas.Com (Martin Czech)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:14:45 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: noise
Message-ID: <200005291214.OAA20077@ikarus.intermetall.de>

Not processing, but also usefull:

Another source if interest could be cosmic noise, all
kinds of radio astronomy signals. Astronomy pages have 
samples here and there. They have usually very special
sounds.

You could as well use an "all band" reciever, they are not so
expensive these days, just hear what ex CAN bass player and
sound guru Holger Czukay
does with AM radio sources from Egypt, Vatican, Persia, etc. etc.

Listen to his "Movies" recording, I really hated it when I bougth it,
but now it's my favorite CD.

m.c.

:::X-Originating-IP: [194.109.129.102]
:::From: "danny bosten" <dbosten at hotmail.com>
:::To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
:::Subject: noise
:::Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 03:59:21 PDT
:::
:::hello there,
:::actually you don't need to buy anything at all to get crunchy, when I want 
:::distortion, I plug a line-out into a mic-in, turn up the gain. I use old 
:::cassette-deck for this too: plug anything into the mic-in-right, take the 
:::right-output and plug it back into the left-mic-in! Guys like Merzbow make 
:::their noises by creating a lot of cross-linked looped patches with a mixer 
:::with lots of effects-sends going to effects-pedals (guitar-effects) looping 
:::them back into the mixer... when some sort of modulation is added you get 
:::all sorts of weird self-sustaining evolving noise-scapes...etc... anyway, 
:::check out my MP3 track 'interference' on MP3.com/bulk eraser...the noise was 
:::'made' by moving a bare oscillator circuit in front of a pc-monitor...
:::bye,
:::Danny B.
:::________________________________________________________________________
:::Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From dave909 at hotmail.com  Mon May 29 14:47:39 2000
From: dave909 at hotmail.com (david leigh)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 05:47:39 PDT
Subject: Temp. Co. Resistors/UK
Message-ID: <20000529124739.37569.qmail@hotmail.com>




>Can any one point me in direction of a distributer in
>the UK, who sells TC resistors?
>Regards to all, Ken

Farnell sells them, order code is: 732-278

Dave
________________________________________________________________________
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From dave909 at hotmail.com  Mon May 29 15:46:16 2000
From: dave909 at hotmail.com (david leigh)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 06:46:16 PDT
Subject: ssm 2018 workings??
Message-ID: <20000529134616.28559.qmail@hotmail.com>


Hey all

A local electronics mag has a compressor featured with a 2018 used as the 
vca. Anyone know much about this chip? It seems the distorsion figures are 
damm low......

Dave
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From DCMagnuson at aol.com  Mon May 29 15:46:52 2000
From: DCMagnuson at aol.com (DCMagnuson at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:46:52 EDT
Subject: Should I buffer triggers?
Message-ID: <99.56c13a7.2663cecc@aol.com>

Hello list,
My project of hacking the Boss DR-110 continues.  I have the unit split open 
on the bench, and the modifications have begun.  I've added a DIN-sync 
modification, and I'm starting to tweak the individual sounds now. (Kick is 
my first target)

As part of my plan, I want to leave the existing sequencer, but also add 
trigger ins and outs for each sound.  Should I use a buffer on these new I/O 
lines?  If so, would a simple 1 transistor emitter follower be sufficient?  

I want to have the unit respond to both the internal and external triggers 
simultaneously... Any precautions mixing the external triggers with the 
internal triggers?  

Thanks in advance.

Dave Magnuson



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Mon May 29 17:32:02 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:32:02 +0100
Subject: Oakley Stuff
Message-ID: <000501bfc984$bd614dc0$3ace883e@default>

Hi all,

Just a quick note to tell you I have updated my webpages a bit. There
are a bunch of new photos and some more sound samples for the
SuperLadder. I managed to scan a few of the PCBs direct as well. They
turn out quite well.

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm

If anyone has pictures of any their Oakley projects, I would be glad to
put them up in the gallery page.

A couple of new projects on their way too... but I'll tell you about
those when I know my PCB design works.

BTW: I sold my prototype TB303 SuperLadder module, but the Moog
SuperLadder is still going begging. 100UKP ono. See:

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/forsale.htm

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/











From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Mon May 29 18:26:56 2000
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:26:56 EDT
Subject: ssm 2018 workings??
Message-ID: <32.5a90c1e.2663f450@aol.com>


In a message dated 5/29/00 5:51:07 AM, you wrote:

<<A local electronics mag has a compressor featured with a 2018 used as the 
vca. >>

Which magazine is that?

Mike B.



From h2h at t3.rim.or.jp  Mon May 29 19:06:29 2000
From: h2h at t3.rim.or.jp (hori)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 02:06:29 +0900
Subject: ARP Pro soloist ROM needed
Message-ID: <20000529170641.11497@mail.t3.rim.or.jp>

Hi all,

I have a broken program ROM (Z15) on my ARP PRO SOLOIST, 
and I am trying to find an original replacement. Could 
someone please direct me where to buy something like this? 
Any ideas?
Also, I want to buy an ARP Pro soloist(JUNK too). 

Thanks for your help

holly



From r_rowley at madasafish.com  Mon May 29 19:14:03 2000
From: r_rowley at madasafish.com (Richard Rowley)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:14:03 +0100
Subject: ems vcf
Message-ID: <001801bfc991$b13a6ba0$baa526d4@h3y6z4>

I'd just like to say hi to everyone as this is my first post.
I'm trying to build the ems vcf from the music machines site but with not much success..Has anyone built a working filter from this schematic?Are there any better versions of this filter out there?

Rich 
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From danas at egosys.com  Mon May 29 20:39:21 2000
From: danas at egosys.com (Dana Scott)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:39:21 -0400
Subject: ARP Pro soloist ROM needed
Message-ID: <007a01bfc99d$51e6ec80$f0f86ed1@egosys.smtp.ix.netcom.com>

I'll bet I have one in one of my junk boxes somewhere...
I have lots of that old stuff.
I'm very busy this week, mail back in about a week to remind me.
Thanks
-Dana Scott
 ( ARP employee 1974 - 1980 )

-----Original Message-----
From: hori <h2h at t3.rim.or.jp>
To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Date: Monday, May 29, 2000 2:24 PM
Subject: ARP Pro soloist ROM needed


>Hi all,
>
>I have a broken program ROM (Z15) on my ARP PRO SOLOIST, 
>and I am trying to find an original replacement. Could 
>someone please direct me where to buy something like this? 
>Any ideas?
>Also, I want to buy an ARP Pro soloist(JUNK too). 
>
>Thanks for your help
>
>holly
>




From danas at egosys.com  Mon May 29 20:59:55 2000
From: danas at egosys.com (Dana Scott)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:59:55 -0400
Subject: ARP Pro soloist ROM needed
Message-ID: <009601bfc9a0$18b61640$f0f86ed1@egosys.smtp.ix.netcom.com>




One more thing: I will need the part number off the chip. It will look
something like "2701-020-8" or "5703107".
-Dana

> Hi all,
>
>I have a broken program ROM (Z15) on my ARP PRO SOLOIST,
>and I am trying to find an original replacement. Could
>someone please direct me where to buy something like this?
>Any ideas?
>Also, I want to buy an ARP Pro soloist(JUNK too).
>
>Thanks for your help
>
>holly
>




From don at till.com  Mon May 29 21:42:38 2000
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Roland V-Guitar (was Harry's rant)
In-Reply-To: <392AC077.ABF00A75@home.com> (message from 19 Productions on Tue,
	23 May 2000 10:31:36 -0700)
Message-ID: <200005291942.MAA15088@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Don wrote:
   I *think* the Roland V-Guitar system is simply a standard DSP-based
   effects unit, including pitch shifting and distortion, plus a digital
   filter to emulate body resonances and a hex digital filter to emulate
   the response of various pickup types and positions.
    
   (The frequency response due to the pickup position and width is with
   respect to the wavelength on the string, so it has to be done
   seperately on each string.  Hence the hex pickup.)

I believe I've found the main patents for the Roland V-Guitar:

US 5,367,120 Musical tone signal forming device for a stringed
             musical instrument, Atsushi Hoshiai, Roland Corporation 

and:

US 5,731,533 Musical tone signal forming apparatus for use in
             simulating a tone of string instrument, Atsushi Hoshiai,
             Roland Corporation  

A comb filter simulates the nodes you get from a pickup at a
given position from the bridge.

(You know how the fourth harmonic on an open string is inaudible with
the neck pickup of a Stratocaster?  The node is right over the
pickup.)

Also another comb filter undoes the filtering effect of the hex
pickup's position.  And another comb filter contributes the effect of
pickup width.  The second patent is a way of dealing with the effects
of simulating multiple pickups.

  -- Don 

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com




From synthdiy at mail.com  Mon May 29 22:08:32 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:08:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Temp. Co. Resistors
Message-ID: <386042285.959630912897.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com>

How 'bout a distributor in North America?

- Paul

------Original Message------
From: "david leigh" <dave909 at hotmail.com>
To: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk, synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Sent: May 29, 2000 12:47:39 PM GMT
Subject: Re: Temp. Co. Resistors/UK





>Can any one point me in direction of a distributer in
>the UK, who sells TC resistors?
>Regards to all, Ken

Farnell sells them, order code is: 732-278

Dave
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From arp2813 at home.com  Mon May 29 22:30:45 2000
From: arp2813 at home.com (Blandon Ray)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:30:45 -0400
Subject: ems vcf
References: <001801bfc991$b13a6ba0$baa526d4@h3y6z4>
Message-ID: <3932D375.987FEB51@home.com>

Richard Rowley wrote:

> I'd just like to say hi to everyone as this is my first post.I'm
> trying to build the ems vcf from the music machines site but with
> not much success..Has anyone built a working filter from this
> schematic?Are there any better versions of this filter out there?

Hello and welcome,

I tried to build this filter a while back (also with little success).
I got a lot of ideas from listmembers, but one thing most people
seemed to agree on was that the Music Machines schematic doesn't work,
or at least isn't accurate. The one I ultimately tried to breadboard
was this one, posted by a kind soul on the list:

 http://world.conk.com/world/indridcold/vcf1.htm

I couldn't get much out of it either, but a lot of the components
aren't quite the right ones, and I didn't have an oscilloscope or half
a brain to test it with. I do have one now (the scope, that is) so I'm
thinking of giving it another go. For the time being I'm sticking to
kits though, until I can learn more.

Good luck,
blandon




From Roel.Das at student.groept.be  Mon May 29 23:07:00 2000
From: Roel.Das at student.groept.be (Roel Das)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:07:00 +0200
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <006101bfc9b1$d5c95880$5010430a@tvd.kotnet.org>

Hello again.

I finally got to updating my site. A little. But I added alot of pictures,
that's what we all like, isn't it? It's got pictures of my MIDI CV project,
which is finally working. It only listens to note on messages, but that
doesn't really matter, since my synth is only a VCO at the moment. Tomorrow
I have to do the presentation (and demonstration) of the project for the
jury. (And instead of practicing, I'm putting pictures on the internet...)

What else is there; well, the VCO. Homemade PCB, homemade frontpanel, even
homemade schematic (although Tom G. did this part :-), it's the fatman VCO,
the PCB is my design.) (oh, thanks Tom)
And some pictures of the guts of an ARP pro soloist. I fixed the power cord
last weekend. It isn't mine, but it will be... Once...

The pictures are all about 50k. Tell me what to do if that's too much for
you...
Now go here: http://www.geocities.com/roelrules/Pictures.HTML

Bye,
Roel




From pwd at redhotant.com  Tue May 30 00:14:14 2000
From: pwd at redhotant.com (paul darlow)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:14:14 +0100
Subject: yamaha MR10
Message-ID: <3932EBB6.51FBC22F@redhotant.com>

Hi all
        Some talk on modifying drum machines has made me drag out my old
MR10 from the forgotten region of the studio
 has anyone on the list ever done anything with one of these as I would
like to trigger the sounds and maybe add some control over the sounds
 dose anyone have a schematic for the MR10
Id love to be abel to trigger the MR10 with the 606 as I have never got
a sample of the bass drum that I was happy with it loses something and
that kick is mean
cheers all paul darlow




From synth1 at airmail.net  Tue May 30 00:40:06 2000
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 17:40:06 -0500
Subject: FS:OB-8/box/MIDI kit
Message-ID: <002501bfc9be$d6f03960$0100007f@localhost>

OB-8 (no page 2 graphics) with *original* shipping box (good for 1 more
shot) and Kenton OB-8
MIDI kit, *not* installed.

The OB-8 needs a replacement ribbon cable that runs between the CPU board
and the 2 voice
cards. I *have* the cable parts, but you have to unsolder the CPU end to
replace it. Not that
hard, just a pain. I will include a copy of both Owners & Service manual.

The Kenton MIDI kit is new in the box.

The shipping carton is a little worn, but it uses injection foam insige that
I lined with an old
sheet to keep junk out of the unit.

This OB-8 worked fine: the cable crapped out. But, it is sold AS IS.

The box is 28 x 14 x 12 inches. I can ship UPS or Fed-EX. The price is $650
+ whatever the shipping is.
I can accept VIAS, MC, or AMEX. Use the order form at www.synthtech.com or
call me 888-818-6686
if you have questions.

Paul Schreiber





From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue May 30 00:58:52 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:58:52 +0200
Subject: Fw: ems vcf
Message-ID: <007201bfc9c1$78061980$5939363e@jhaible>


> >The one I ultimately tried to breadboard
> > was this one, posted by a kind soul on the list:
> >
> >  http://world.conk.com/world/indridcold/vcf1.htm
> >
> > I couldn't get much out of it either, but a lot of the components
> > aren't quite the right ones,

This is not the EMS filter.
We've been thru this a couple of times, so please check
the archives.

JH.






From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Tue May 30 01:24:54 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:24:54 GMT
Subject: new scans: some JH-720 schemos
Message-ID: <20000529232454.23281.qmail@hotmail.com>

Right, offcourse we dont want to se your or anyonelses
cirquit in modules starting whit A from the
manufacturer who begins whit D whithout not
getting paid for it in some way.

Agreeing absolutely.

Besides that i was once again looking at the Polysix
shemos and was thinking again about that one should
do some muxed current mirror stuff, one can mux
the linear part for linear FM in the same clock
cykle as the cv. Well depending on the OSC used
one can do the FM on the other side of the
mux.

Hmm with one stable muxed log thru a 4051
one could get a very interesting FM oscillator bank.
FM would be wery well suited to do on a such muxed
thing since the temp drift would happen to all the OSC's
at allmost the wery same time and in the same direction.

Hmm, maybe i do some sinus OSC's now!!!


AP


>From: "jhaible" <jhaible at debitel.net>
>To: "diy" <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: new scans: some JH-720 schemos
>Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:30:17 +0200
>
>After some hesitation over the last months, I've decided to put up some
>of the JH-720 circuits. I hope you like them.
>
>http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/additional_schemos.html
>
>JH.
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Tue May 30 01:24:59 2000
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 01:24:59 +0200
Subject: ems vcf
References: <001801bfc991$b13a6ba0$baa526d4@h3y6z4> <3932D375.987FEB51@home.com>
Message-ID: <3932FC4B.AC3B510E@eunet.yu>

> 
> I tried to build this filter a while back (also with little success).
> I got a lot of ideas from listmembers, but one thing most people
> seemed to agree on was that the Music Machines schematic doesn't work,

it's not an original ems vcf, better try original one or tomg's vcf6,
or try to loose those res from ladder outs to gnd from MM schem,
make that response pot fixed and add 50k pot in series with4u7
cap for resonance...


marjan



From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue May 30 01:37:39 2000
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 01:37:39 +0200
Subject: new scans: some JH-720 schemos
References: <20000529232454.23281.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <009601bfc9c6$e239a740$5939363e@jhaible>

> Besides that i was once again looking at the Polysix
> shemos and was thinking again about that one should
> do some muxed current mirror stuff, one can mux
> the linear part for linear FM in the same clock
> cykle as the cv. Well depending on the OSC used
> one can do the FM on the other side of the
> mux.

Make sure your MUX is clocked fast enough. The sampling rate must be
twice as high as your highest relevant harmonic in the signal you're
using for FM.

JH.





From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Tue May 30 01:49:28 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:49:28 GMT
Subject: new scans: some JH-720 schemos
Message-ID: <20000529234928.29981.qmail@hotmail.com>

> > Besides that i was once again looking at the Polysix
> > shemos and was thinking again about that one should
> > do some muxed current mirror stuff, one can mux
> > the linear part for linear FM in the same clock
> > cykle as the cv. Well depending on the OSC used
> > one can do the FM on the other side of the
> > mux.
>
>Make sure your MUX is clocked fast enough. The sampling rate must be
>twice as high as your highest relevant harmonic in the signal you're
>using for FM.

Yes i know, therfore in a second thaught i skipp
that and do Linear FM on the OSC side instead.

AP



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From augustopinoche at hotmail.com  Tue May 30 01:52:48 2000
From: augustopinoche at hotmail.com (Augusto Pinoche)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:52:48 GMT
Subject: new scans: some JH-720 schemos
Message-ID: <20000529235248.91636.qmail@hotmail.com>

Or,,, maybe its total insane to do this log muxing,
perhapps better do a current mirror that drives
8 linear OSC's directly instead!!

AP


>From: "jhaible" <jhaible at debitel.net>
>To: "Augusto Pinoche" <augustopinoche at hotmail.com>, 
><synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
>Subject: Re: new scans: some JH-720 schemos
>Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 01:37:39 +0200
>
> > Besides that i was once again looking at the Polysix
> > shemos and was thinking again about that one should
> > do some muxed current mirror stuff, one can mux
> > the linear part for linear FM in the same clock
> > cykle as the cv. Well depending on the OSC used
> > one can do the FM on the other side of the
> > mux.
>
>Make sure your MUX is clocked fast enough. The sampling rate must be
>twice as high as your highest relevant harmonic in the signal you're
>using for FM.
>
>JH.
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From racemachine at home.com  Tue May 30 03:33:48 2000
From: racemachine at home.com (Race)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:33:48 -0700
Subject: Bit and Sampling Rate Reduction
Message-ID: <39331A7C.731E02B7@home.com>

Anyone have any schematics our thoughts on a bit and
sample rate reduction pedal or module??

I use computer audio a lot, and there's quite a few of those as plugins,
and some built into programs...

But I would love to use it externally, especially nice effect with 4 bit
rate, and a very low sample rate, makes it very computerized bleepy and
very fuzzy at the same time...

Well, let me know...

Race



From arp2813 at home.com  Tue May 30 03:58:01 2000
From: arp2813 at home.com (Blandon Ray)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:58:01 -0400
Subject: ems vcf
References: <007201bfc9c1$78061980$5939363e@jhaible>
Message-ID: <39332029.3928CC7B@home.com>

jhaible wrote:

> This is not the EMS filter.
> We've been thru this a couple of times, so please check
> the archives.

1. I didn't mean to imply that this was the EMS filter. It's just one
that was posted a while back when I expressed an interest in building
such a filter.
2. This may not be the real EMS filter, but as others have pointed out,
the one on Music Machines isn't either, probably because...
3. ...the real EMS filter schematics aren't available anywhere that I can
find. People still kept advising me to "build the real one instead" -
well, I'd love to, but the schemos aren't posted (which I understand,
since EMS still manufactures these instruments).
4. I haven't been able to dig up the archives for this list anywhere
since the server change; all the links point to the old site. Anyone have
a current URL?

Probably none of this information is useful, but it seemed to me like I
was being got at in some way... maybe it's just me.

blandon




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 30 04:15:56 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:15:56 -0400
Subject: Bit and Sampling Rate Reduction
References: <39331A7C.731E02B7@home.com>
Message-ID: <3933245B.93FC8902@prodigy.net>

Do you mean for audio in (guitar vocal etc) and quantized audio out... 4
bits,
8 bits etc...  That might be cool. Should not be too hard to do.  Sorry no
schematics (yet)

H^)  harry

Race wrote:

> Anyone have any schematics our thoughts on a bit and
> sample rate reduction pedal or module??
>
> I use computer audio a lot, and there's quite a few of those as plugins,
> and some built into programs...
>
> But I would love to use it externally, especially nice effect with 4 bit
> rate, and a very low sample rate, makes it very computerized bleepy and
> very fuzzy at the same time...
>
> Well, let me know...
>
> Race




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue May 30 04:47:36 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:47:36 -0400
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <39332BC7.9B21CE54@prodigy.net>

Class...
I expect a report from all US members tomorrow following the holiday
weekend.
World class members... no excuse! Unless you had a national holiday,
emergency,
etc. Then a note from your mother (or wife) will suffice. Your
assignments are still
due on time...

your Teacher !!!

I've been
1) Building my MiniModular (about half done... want to wash it tomorrow
in ozone-safe
<don't worry, still toxic to humans...>  defluxer before putting in the
pots and polystyrene
caps. Spent a hour painting in the lines in the tiny little pots. Used
fluorescent red and a
5-0 paintbrush (left over from negative retouch... eh oldtimers ???)

2) Resurrection of my stereo hex fuzz (from the early 80's). Storage has
not been too
unlind... the bypass relays no longer work (contact corrosion) and there
is a big difference in the gain of my G-Vox pickup (low) and my old 360
Systems pickup (high) so I can
only get slightly into the fuzzes "face" right now. But early
"crunchies" indicate I have been
missing this too long.  What a sweet sound. Double stop bends... no IM
distortion. With
the "slight crunch" it has real nice sustain without the typical harsh
distortion.

3) So I need a new Hex Fuzz module.  I'm planning a Voltage controlled
Fuzz unit, with
sustain, volume, and tone all voltage controlled. It will probably
include an envelope follower (with compression on/off) and VCF, and
final VCA, driven by a separate compressed (on/off) envelope follower.
The idea is that the final VCA can act as a noise gate without killing
sustain too much.

So far I've got a 3080 driving a current to voltage output stage
(inverting) with clipping.
Nice fuzz... not too noisy. The 3080 is the direct preamp for the hex
pickup, but I'm thinking of trying an NE553X  (2, 4???) as a low noise
preamp stage fronting the 3080
(to drive the envelope followers...)

The idea is for a (single... double???) rack unit, with knobs to set the
fuzz parameters.
And a preamp output to go to P/V conversion at a later date. I have a
nice circuit that I'm using to get the pitch output reliably.

The "stereo" function was originally every other string left/right. This
svcked! So I used
low 3 - high 3 so you can use two amps (like a bass amp and a guitar
amp)... IMHO
Stereo outputs are not worth the extra circuitry. What do you think ?

Anyone have any favorite fuzz box ideas ???  Anyone want to play ???

BTW this is a "Guitar Synthesizer" module without VCO's. So don't tell
me to go to
alt.guitar.effects... eh ???

H^)  harry




From racemachine at home.com  Tue May 30 05:38:05 2000
From: racemachine at home.com (Race)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:38:05 -0700
Subject: Bit and Sampling Rate Reduction
References: <39331A7C.731E02B7@home.com> <3933245B.93FC8902@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <3933379D.FD4DED3B@home.com>

Yeah that's exactly what I mean...

The best would be if you could get a complete range from 1 to 16 bit...
Also sampling rate would be wicked as well.  100 hz to 441000 hz

They both have interesting effects, and you should be able to do them
both in one module without a big problem...

Harry Bissell wrote:
> 
> Do you mean for audio in (guitar vocal etc) and quantized audio out... 4
> bits,
> 8 bits etc...  That might be cool. Should not be too hard to do.  Sorry no
> schematics (yet)
> 
> H^)  harry
> 
> Race wrote:
> 
> > Anyone have any schematics our thoughts on a bit and
> > sample rate reduction pedal or module??
> >
> > I use computer audio a lot, and there's quite a few of those as plugins,
> > and some built into programs...
> >
> > But I would love to use it externally, especially nice effect with 4 bit
> > rate, and a very low sample rate, makes it very computerized bleepy and
> > very fuzzy at the same time...
> >
> > Well, let me know...
> >
> > Race



From mgm at starlingtech.com  Tue May 30 05:42:24 2000
From: mgm at starlingtech.com (Michael Moncur)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:42:24 -0600
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
In-Reply-To: <39332BC7.9B21CE54@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000529213735.00a72960@mail.xmission.com>

on 08:47 PM 5/29/00 , Harry Bissell wrote:

>I expect a report from all US members tomorrow following the holiday
>weekend.

Here's my report, not that it will qualify me for an "A".

>I've been
>1) Building my MiniModular (about half done... want to wash it tomorrow
>in ozone-safe
><don't worry, still toxic to humans...>  defluxer before putting in the
>pots and polystyrene
>caps.

I've been putting off starting my MiniModular because Mouser backordered a 
bunch of stuff (including all 23 TL072s... I suspect the DIY list has 
bankrupted them of yet another part.)

>Spent a hour painting in the lines in the tiny little pots. Used
>fluorescent red and a
>5-0 paintbrush (left over from negative retouch... eh oldtimers ???)

I suppose I should get to work doing that, since the pots were one item 
Mouser did ship to me. BTW, do you think it will work well enough sans 
knobs? Has anyone found any knobs that fit? It seems like even the smallest 
knobs would obscure some of the labelling, so I'll try without.

BTW, I highly recommend the MM. The front panel is lovely, and the 
instructions are reasonably clear. With any luck I'll be able to say how it 
sounds in a couple of weeks...

--
michael moncur   mgm at starlingtech.com   http://www.starlingtech.com/
"Only the mediocre are always at their best."           -- Jean Giraudoux




From racemachine at home.com  Tue May 30 05:46:53 2000
From: racemachine at home.com (Race)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:46:53 -0700
Subject: Bit and Sampling Rate Reduction
References: <39331A7C.731E02B7@home.com> <3933245B.93FC8902@prodigy.net> <3933379D.FD4DED3B@home.com>
Message-ID: <393339AC.1114FB53@home.com>

mmmm, screwed up on the sampling rate
44100, had too many zeros

Race wrote:
> 
> Yeah that's exactly what I mean...
> 
> The best would be if you could get a complete range from 1 to 16 bit...
> Also sampling rate would be wicked as well.  100 hz to 44100 hz
> 
> They both have interesting effects, and you should be able to do them
> both in one module without a big problem...
> 
> Harry Bissell wrote:
> >
> > Do you mean for audio in (guitar vocal etc) and quantized audio out... 4
> > bits,
> > 8 bits etc...  That might be cool. Should not be too hard to do.  Sorry no
> > schematics (yet)
> >
> > H^)  harry
> >
> > Race wrote:
> >
> > > Anyone have any schematics our thoughts on a bit and
> > > sample rate reduction pedal or module??
> > >
> > > I use computer audio a lot, and there's quite a few of those as plugins,
> > > and some built into programs...
> > >
> > > But I would love to use it externally, especially nice effect with 4 bit
> > > rate, and a very low sample rate, makes it very computerized bleepy and
> > > very fuzzy at the same time...
> > >
> > > Well, let me know...
> > >
> > > Race



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue May 30 07:42:24 2000
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:42:24 -0700
Subject: ems vcf
References: <007201bfc9c1$78061980$5939363e@jhaible> <39332029.3928CC7B@home.com>
Message-ID: <001801bfc9f9$d710b7e0$0100a8c0@homenet>

It's just you.....sorry...;-) Try this one. It's very
similar except that I know it works..and there is 
even a 9V version just right for stomp-box.

http://www.xavax.com/efm/pdf/vcf6.pdf

Tom


> jhaible wrote:
> 
> > This is not the EMS filter.
> > We've been thru this a couple of times, so please check
> > the archives.
> 
> 1. I didn't mean to imply that this was the EMS filter. It's just one
> that was posted a while back when I expressed an interest in building
> such a filter.
> 2. This may not be the real EMS filter, but as others have pointed out,
> the one on Music Machines isn't either, probably because...
> 3. ...the real EMS filter schematics aren't available anywhere that I can
> find. People still kept advising me to "build the real one instead" -
> well, I'd love to, but the schemos aren't posted (which I understand,
> since EMS still manufactures these instruments).
> 4. I haven't been able to dig up the archives for this list anywhere
> since the server change; all the links point to the old site. Anyone have
> a current URL?
> 
> Probably none of this information is useful, but it seemed to me like I
> was being got at in some way... maybe it's just me.
> 
> blandon
> 




From debus at cityweb.de  Tue May 30 08:21:36 2000
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:21:36 +0200
Subject: Pattern Sequencer Software  (Was: Forat, Linn9000!!!)
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0005261208290.75068-100000@gnu.uvm.edu> <392F0256.68C4F1C1@ori.org> <000901bfc778$eb660d40$0400a8c0@Theo> <3930D6B4.7ECE77FC@zoo.uvm.edu> <002101bfc828$2bfcd460$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <39335DF0.B243A8@cityweb.de>



Theo wrote:
> If you mean realtime "live" mixing and arrangeing I agree with you,
> the big name seq. are not made for that.

Have a look at the "TouchTracks" feature of Logic.

Ingo




From blacet at metro.net  Tue May 30 09:05:35 2000
From: blacet at metro.net (John E Blacet)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:05:35 +0000
Subject: Texas Instruments IC's
References: <20000530070502.62967.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3933683E.57A6@metro.net>

"The ECG chips are a lot more expensive than the TI chips."

---ECG is a way marked up reseller of chips, mostly so repair folks can
charge consumers an arm and a leg; it's just biz. TI is AOK!
-- 

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From jonathon_parker at hotmail.com  Tue May 30 09:12:06 2000
From: jonathon_parker at hotmail.com (Jon Parker)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 01:12:06 -0600
Subject: Texas Instruments IC's
Message-ID: <20000530070502.62967.qmail@hotmail.com>

Are these chips OK to use?  What other brands are good to use (or better?)  I've also been using ECG chips too.  Are these chips suitable replacements for most of their cross referenced chips?  The ECG chips are a lot more expensive than the TI chips.  Does this have anything to do with the quality of TI chips?

Jon Parker
Jazz Pianist 
Denver CO USA
--
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From nikro at itn.liu.se  Tue May 30 10:01:44 2000
From: nikro at itn.liu.se (Niklas =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F6nnberg?=)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:01:44 +0200
Subject: Noise
Message-ID: <39337568.C21550BE@itn.liu.se>

Hello!
I want a simple noise generator for a system that uses +/- 12v.
Any suggestions?
/Niklas
___________________________________

Niklas R?nnberg, Lecturer (Media Technology)

Dept of Science and Technology (ITN)
Link?ping University, Campus Norrk?ping

Phone: +46(0)11-363316 Fax:+46(0)11-363270
E-mail: nikro at itn.liu.se
Homepage: http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/

    "The semiotic $64,000 question:
  Why and how is who communicating what
     to whom and with what effect?"





From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue May 30 10:36:19 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:36:19 +1000
Subject: Texas Instruments IC's
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000530083619.00ed27dc@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 01:12 AM 30/05/00 -0600, Jon Parker jonathon_parker at hotmwrote:
  The ECG chips are a lot more expensive than the TI chips.  Does this have
anything to do with the quality of TI chips?
>
ECG etc substitute & recpacement chips can come from anywhere,
but rest assured that they were the cheapest equivalents they could
find on the face of the earth. The TI chips at leas come from TI.
In this case, price represents nothig but profit margin, and the fact
that ECG sels mostly ones and twos, so they spend a fortune on packaging.

paul perry melbourne australia




From dave909 at hotmail.com  Tue May 30 11:00:21 2000
From: dave909 at hotmail.com (david leigh)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 02:00:21 PDT
Subject: ssm 2018 workings??
Message-ID: <20000530090021.7958.qmail@hotmail.com>


>In a message dated 5/29/00 5:51:07 AM, you wrote:
>
><<A local electronics mag has a compressor featured with a 2018 used as the
>vca. >>
>
>Which magazine is that?
>
>Mike B.


An aussie mag Silicon Chip.... The compressor is described as a cd 
compressor, with minimal panel controls, but all the usual controls seem 
rather easy to implement.......

Dave
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Tue May 30 13:13:14 2000
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:13:14 +0200
Subject: Bergfotron update
Message-ID: <TFSKAANT@idg.se>

Hi DIYers
I just added some stuff to my webpages (http://www.idg.se/personal/bergfors/bergfotron).
On the VCF page, you can see how I converted an ordinary logarithmic pot into a reverse taper one.

/Jorgen



From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Tue May 30 13:29:43 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:29:43 +0200
Subject: ems vcf
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA02034FE8@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>

Sorry, I did not mean to be rude. My answer was intended to be a reply
to the list, and to the original poster in particular - no intention to
criticize your helpful hint. 

	>1. I didn't mean to imply that this was the EMS filter. It's just
one
	>that was posted a while back when I expressed an interest in
building
	>such a filter.
> 2. This may not be the real EMS filter, but as others have pointed out,
> the one on Music Machines isn't either, probably because...
> 3. ...the real EMS filter schematics aren't available anywhere that I can
> find. People still kept advising me to "build the real one instead" -
> well, I'd love to, but the schemos aren't posted (which I understand,
> since EMS still manufactures these instruments).
> 4. I haven't been able to dig up the archives for this list anywhere
> since the server change; all the links point to the old site. Anyone have
> a current URL?
> 
Ok, I have promised not to pass on these schemos in public.
BUT ulr's where to find them have been posted to this list, so you
will probably (gasp) find them in the archives as well. If you're
lucky, they are still working.

JH.



From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue May 30 13:55:47 2000
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:55:47 +0100 (BST)
Subject: SEM PSU
Message-ID: <20000530115547.10461.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all!, Yet more PSU related questions. The 2N3638
transistor in the Oberheim SEM, does anyone have a
good idea an equivalent? Also the schemo shows a
regulator section, but, excuse my ignorance, where
does the transformer tag onto?
Regards to all, Ken...

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie



From Colin.Fraser at scottishpower.plc.uk  Tue May 30 15:23:56 2000
From: Colin.Fraser at scottishpower.plc.uk (Fraser, Colin J)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:23:56 +0100
Subject: Any Wasp owners about ?
Message-ID: <01F675ABB3FFD111A6AA0008C728D5A501FDC296@catsprnts10.cat.scottishpower.plc.uk>

A friend of a friend was given a Caterpillar keyboard recently, but no Wasp
to go with it - the owner gave that away years ago.
If anyone wants it I reckon he'd part with it for not much more than the
cost of shipping.
Mail me if interested.

Colin f



From Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de  Tue May 30 15:29:44 2000
From: Juergen.Haible at nbgm.siemens.de (Haible Juergen)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:29:44 +0200
Subject: Bergfotron update
Message-ID: <2BEB95546DCDD211A6A100805FEA47CA0203519F@nbgm339a.nbgm.siemens.de>

	>I just added some stuff to my webpages
(http://www.idg.se/personal/bergfors/bergfotron).
	>On the VCF page, you can see how I converted an ordinary
logarithmic pot into a reverse taper one.

Hi J?rgen,

congrats to this excellent stuff. Every time I see your mechanical
construction I'm
flabbergasted like the first time. And your log to reverse log conversion is
a no-compromise
solution indeed. (I had expected something in the like of sticking a shaft
into the pot from
the rear ...)

Thanks for the reference for the Korg 35 filter. I'd like to ask you for two
things, though:
1) Please add a reference to K. Tanaka's page as well:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~WZ4K-TNK/
    It's from him that I got the circuit topology. I would never have found
it myself; I just designed
    a working circuit around it.
2) The reference to my pages should be to the synthfool server:
http://www.synthfool.com/diy/hj.html
    The other page is abandoned for quite some time now. Unfortunately
neither Magnus who originally
    provided it, nor myself have access to delete these pages. (which would
be way better than a
    page that doesn't carry the last dozen updates.)
   Same thing on the envelope generator page.

The second point is a general plea to the list:
Please, if you have links to my site, use the synthfool reference, and not
the old mirror in Sweden.

Keep up the good work !

JH.




From patchell at silcom.com  Tue May 30 16:09:16 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:09:16 -0700
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <39332BC7.9B21CE54@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <3933CB8C.B649ED29@silcom.com>



Harry Bissell wrote:

> Class...
> I expect a report from all US members tomorrow following the holiday
> weekend.
> World class members... no excuse! Unless you had a national holiday,
> emergency,
> etc. Then a note from your mother (or wife) will suffice. Your
> assignments are still
> due on time...
>
> your Teacher !!!
>
> I've been
> 1) Building my MiniModular (about half done... want to wash it tomorrow
> in ozone-safe
> <don't worry, still toxic to humans...>  defluxer before putting in the
> pots and polystyrene
> caps. Spent a hour painting in the lines in the tiny little pots. Used
> fluorescent red and a
> 5-0 paintbrush (left over from negative retouch... eh oldtimers ???)
>

    I would have been working on my MiniModular except I am missing some key
components.  When I ordered the resistors, I didn't order what I _knew_ I
had in stock.  One small problem, I should have counted the ones I did have,
and verified that my memory was correct on others.

    I use a ozone safe defluxer, but mine I can also drink (but not after
cleaning the flux!).  In fact, I probably drink more of my defluxer than is
probably good for me.  In fact, I could probably drownd in the stuff.

    As far as my other weekend activities (besides drinking lots of defluxer
:^)), I spent a lot of time at the computer running the autorouter on my
synthesizer module.  It took about 10 minutes for the autorouter to do it's
job (not bad for 3000 connections on a moderately dense board).  It took
longer for me to get the router set up.  About all it does is let me know if
there are any problems with the parts layout.  I suspect that I am still
going to end up hand routing this sucker anyway (the router makes such a
mess).

> H^)  harry

    That little old defluxer drinker....

    -Jim





From thudson at tomy.net  Tue May 30 16:54:09 2000
From: thudson at tomy.net (thudson at tomy.net)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:54:09 -0400
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <39332BC7.9B21CE54@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <3933D611.4013363@tomy.net>

Harry Bissell wrote:
> 
> Class...
> I expect a report from all US members tomorrow following the holiday
> weekend.

Hmm. Seems like we worked on similar projects this holiday. I've been
pulling out all the old distortion devices I've built over the
years. I also searched the net for a schematic of the Chandler
Tube Driver but came up empty handed. If anyone has this circuit
I really, really want it. Another circuit I want is the Dynacord CLS 222
Leslie simulator.

The astute among you might make the connection; I've been looking
at David Gilmore's setup :-) 

http://www.mikesguitarsite.co.uk/pfloyd/gear/gear.htm


> 3) So I need a new Hex Fuzz module. 

Another project. I have the Roland GKS pickup. I've heard the output is
really low. I'm interested in what you come up with.

> The "stereo" function was originally every other string left/right. This
> svcked! So I used
> low 3 - high 3 so you can use two amps (like a bass amp and a guitar
> amp)... IMHO
> Stereo outputs are not worth the extra circuitry. What do you think ?
> 
I would still want the option of individual outs. I might want to 
process one string differently than the rest. Or maybe three assignable 
busses with rotary switches for each string. I'm not ready to build
a hex phase shifter, but I might want to run different strings into
different units.

> Anyone have any favorite fuzz box ideas ???  Anyone want to play ???

Lot's. Take a look at the TS909 topology with diodes in the feedback
loop of an opamp. Note that some people have got good results with 
OP275 op amps so don't kill yourself trying to find the original 
JCR4558's. Try different diodes or multiple diodes. If you put a 
lot of different parallel diodes in series with variable resistors, 
could you tune in various diode effects? Use an LDR/LED combo and
get VC distortions changes.

Or Craig Andertons UltraFuzz, zero crossing detection to give a square
wave. Convert the square wave to triangle and the triangle to sin.

Of course a fuzz face or big muff w/o IM would be fun too. Big Muff
on bottom three strings and fuzz face on the top. 

Or two fuzzes per string with a crossover filter, play hi get one
fuzz, play low get the other.

Go to http://www.geofex.com and read R. Keens excellent analysis of
various distortion boxes.

Oh yeah, I just bought a Fulltone Ultimate Octave distortion this
weekend.
Now if I could play chords thru that...

Tomy



From clark at andrews.edu  Tue May 30 17:21:26 2000
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:21:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
In-Reply-To: <39332BC7.9B21CE54@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000530110000.24782B-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Class...
> I expect a report from all US members tomorrow following the holiday
> weekend.
> World class members... no excuse! Unless you had a national holiday,
> emergency,
> etc. Then a note from your mother (or wife) will suffice. Your
> assignments are still
> due on time...
> your Teacher !!!

   Shoot, my wife's out of town, so I have no albi!  *sob*  Ah well, in 
spite of me having to work yesterday (and no, I don't just mean mowing 
the yard, which I did as well)...

> I've been
> 1) Building my MiniModular (about half done... want to wash it tomorrow
> in ozone-safe <don't worry, still toxic to humans...>  defluxer before 
> putting in the pots and polystyrene caps. Spent a hour painting in the 
> lines in the tiny little pots. Used fluorescent red and a 5-0 
> paintbrush (left over from negative retouch... eh oldtimers ???)

   I have been slowly building mine but it will take me some time as I 
figure out exactly how I want to finish it.  I ran out of machined 
sockets so had to order those plus some 072 (which if you guys weren't so 
cheap and ordered the ACN versions, they wouldn't be on backorder... ;)
   And speaking of backorder, does Mouser carry ANY XT crystals??  I 
checked every single damned 4.00MHz crystal in their catalog and ALL of 
them were on backorder!  Sheesh!
   Some of the things I'm pondering right now is to banana-fy or not.  
I'll have to take the face-plate to the old milling machine and lengthen 
the jack holes by 40 mils on each side to accommodate the flatted shafts 
of common banana jacks.
   Doing that will also prevent me from using the 9mm pots, so I'll 
probably use the 0.500" pots I used on my VCO's, but I do have to make 
sure that they'll fit in the somewhat cramped spaces.  I'll connect the 
pots to the board by locking AMP headers (which I have tons of here at 
work) and then use a pair of swivel standoffs so that the PCB can hinge 
down for easy access.

   As for other projects, I'm going to be receiving a 4-voice with only 
one lonely SEM unit...so I'm tempted to clone the SEM circuitry and fill 
out the rest of the empty spaces...

   Tony

------------------------------------,----------------------------------
I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
------------------------------------|  
Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
------------------------------------'----------------------------------




From clark at andrews.edu  Tue May 30 17:25:42 2000
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:25:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
In-Reply-To: <3933CB8C.B649ED29@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000530112156.24782C-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

>     As far as my other weekend activities (besides drinking lots of defluxer
> :^)), I spent a lot of time at the computer running the autorouter on my
> synthesizer module.  It took about 10 minutes for the autorouter to do it's
> job (not bad for 3000 connections on a moderately dense board).  It took
> longer for me to get the router set up.  About all it does is let me know if
> there are any problems with the parts layout.  I suspect that I am still
> going to end up hand routing this sucker anyway (the router makes such a
> mess).

   Yeah, this is one of the great things I always show my students AFTER 
they have sucessfully hand routed their first circuit board!  I show them 
exactly WHY the autorouter (and it doesn't matter if it's a $100 program 
or a $10K program) just plain stinks and why making PCBs is an ARTFORM 
and not a science.

   Cheers,

   Tony

------------------------------------,----------------------------------
I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
------------------------------------|  
Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
------------------------------------'----------------------------------




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 18:00:01 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:00:01 -0700
Subject: FW: Texas Instruments IC's
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18E7@SMF-NT-MAIL1>


Speaking of ECG, these folks (ECG and NTE) can be a nifty resource. I was
looking for a suitable FET for a VCO. The NTE466 has some decent specs and seems
to work okay. And I didnt have to wait for the UPS guy; I got instant
gratification, which is soooo important!


Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: John E Blacet [mailto:blacet at metro.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:06 AM
To: Jon Parker
Cc: Synth-DIY
Subject: Re: Texas Instruments IC's


"The ECG chips are a lot more expensive than the TI chips."

---ECG is a way marked up reseller of chips, mostly so repair folks can
charge consumers an arm and a leg; it's just biz. TI is AOK!
-- 

Regards.
-------------------------
John Blacet
Blacet Research Music Electronics
http://www.blacet.com
-------------------------
blacet at metro.net
-------------------------
Are you on our mailing list?
http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html



From patchell at silcom.com  Tue May 30 18:27:01 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:27:01 -0700
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <20000530155452.26657.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3933EBD5.5B780ECC@silcom.com>



Hairy Harry wrote:

> I'd use the autorouter... if I wanted a sh!tty job that is...
>
> I've never been happy with them yet (esp for analog or mixed signal)
>
> Art is....(er).....ART !!!
>
> H^) harry
>

    I agree, but they have their places.  This particular autorouter
(NeuroRoute) seems to do a pretty good job on surface mount boards.  For through
hole stuff, the best one I have come across is SuperRoute.  This is an old DOS
based router.  The only interface I have for it is Protel Traxedit, which has a
1000 net limit, so that leaves that one out.  Also, I suspect I could probably
not figure out how to set that one up any longer.  Then there are the truely
pathetic routers, like the one that comes built into Protel for Windows (I have
version 2.7).  Not only does this router do an extremely bad job, but it is also
VERY sloooowwww.  I can hand route boards (literally) faster than this thing can
route them.   Auto routers especially come in handy when doing contract work.

    -Jim




From clark at andrews.edu  Tue May 30 18:35:57 2000
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:35:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: FW: Texas Instruments IC's
In-Reply-To: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18E7@SMF-NT-MAIL1>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000530121623.24782F-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Speaking of ECG, these folks (ECG and NTE) can be a nifty resource. I was
> looking for a suitable FET for a VCO. The NTE466 has some decent specs 
> and seems to work okay. And I didnt have to wait for the UPS guy; I got 
> instant gratification, which is soooo important!

   I've used the 466 for some time in my VCO projects and they are pretty 
good.  My biggest problem with them tends to be that they often don't 
reset the VCO all the way to zero (varies from one to the next) unless you 
drive them pretty hard.  That and they tend to be _really_ too expensive 
(okay, so I am a _little_ cheap) for my liking for not working as well as 
other types of FETs.
   My next VCO run will most likely switch to BS170 which has much better 
specs than the 466 but requires opposite gate control and is only $0.45 
each.  Probably an even better type would be an MPF6660 which has lower 
on resistance and faster switching time, but I haven't played with it, yet!
   Of course there's always MOSFETs...maybe someone has a direct drop in 
replacement for a 466?  I'd love to know!

   Tony

------------------------------------,----------------------------------
I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
------------------------------------|  
Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
------------------------------------'----------------------------------




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 18:37:37 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:37:37 -0700
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18E8@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Report:
What I did on my Memorial Day vacation:

Hammered out a design for a (gulp) uP controlled ADSR generator. I know, its
easy to do with a 555. In fact, I have one. But I want linear ramps for some
reason, so I am wanging up a dual ADSR using an HC11. My ADSR question last week
came after I did the initial state diagram.

Sent off to Mr. Patchell for some MAT-04's. I want to see if I can replace the
CA3046 in my VCO design. I am doing thermostat heating, and I plan to use two of
the MAT-04 trannies for temp-sense and heating. Of course, then I discovered 2
MAT-04 samples as I was cleaning...

Studied the timber modulators in Barry Klein's book... Might just have to proto
a few of those...

Studied 3-D sound effects. Is anyone interested in a module or an expreimenter's
kit that will do some kind of true 3-D??

But mostly, I cleaned the Dungeon (basement) where my lab is. I'm not what you'd
call a tidy person. In fact, I'm a bit of a slob. But I've been pecking away at
it every day, and now I can actually what color the tables are!  This is good,
because I have these anti-static mats to put down.

oh, yeah: I got the pool clean, just in time for 100 degree California days!

That's all...

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Harry Bissell [mailto:harrybissell at prodigy.net]
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 7:48 PM
To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl; efm at xavax.com
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Class...
I expect a report from all US members tomorrow following the holiday
weekend.
World class members... no excuse! Unless you had a national holiday,
emergency,
etc. Then a note from your mother (or wife) will suffice. Your
assignments are still
due on time...

your Teacher !!!

I've been
1) Building my MiniModular (about half done... want to wash it tomorrow
in ozone-safe
<don't worry, still toxic to humans...>  defluxer before putting in the
pots and polystyrene
caps. Spent a hour painting in the lines in the tiny little pots. Used
fluorescent red and a
5-0 paintbrush (left over from negative retouch... eh oldtimers ???)

2) Resurrection of my stereo hex fuzz (from the early 80's). Storage has
not been too
unlind... the bypass relays no longer work (contact corrosion) and there
is a big difference in the gain of my G-Vox pickup (low) and my old 360
Systems pickup (high) so I can
only get slightly into the fuzzes "face" right now. But early
"crunchies" indicate I have been
missing this too long.  What a sweet sound. Double stop bends... no IM
distortion. With
the "slight crunch" it has real nice sustain without the typical harsh
distortion.

3) So I need a new Hex Fuzz module.  I'm planning a Voltage controlled
Fuzz unit, with
sustain, volume, and tone all voltage controlled. It will probably
include an envelope follower (with compression on/off) and VCF, and
final VCA, driven by a separate compressed (on/off) envelope follower.
The idea is that the final VCA can act as a noise gate without killing
sustain too much.

So far I've got a 3080 driving a current to voltage output stage
(inverting) with clipping.
Nice fuzz... not too noisy. The 3080 is the direct preamp for the hex
pickup, but I'm thinking of trying an NE553X  (2, 4???) as a low noise
preamp stage fronting the 3080
(to drive the envelope followers...)

The idea is for a (single... double???) rack unit, with knobs to set the
fuzz parameters.
And a preamp output to go to P/V conversion at a later date. I have a
nice circuit that I'm using to get the pitch output reliably.

The "stereo" function was originally every other string left/right. This
svcked! So I used
low 3 - high 3 so you can use two amps (like a bass amp and a guitar
amp)... IMHO
Stereo outputs are not worth the extra circuitry. What do you think ?

Anyone have any favorite fuzz box ideas ???  Anyone want to play ???

BTW this is a "Guitar Synthesizer" module without VCO's. So don't tell
me to go to
alt.guitar.effects... eh ???

H^)  harry



From synthdiy at mail.com  Tue May 30 19:55:21 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:55:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pomona distributor?
Message-ID: <382681718.959709321024.JavaMail.root@web313-mc.mail.com>

Anybody have a favorite Pomona distributor?  I need to get some banana
cables and jacks.  Somewhere cheap with lotsa colours would be great.

- Paul

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From synthdiy at mail.com  Tue May 30 20:02:23 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:02:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Need small pots
Message-ID: <385454941.959709743265.JavaMail.root@web304-mc.mail.com>

Are 0.1 Watt pots okay for my ASM-1?  I'm looking that the 17mm pots from
Mouser.

If anyone can recommend something thad be great.  I need something fairly
small - I bought a bunch of standard-size pots and they use up way too much
space.

- Paul

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 20:51:40 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:51:40 -0700
Subject: FW: Texas Instruments IC's
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18EA@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Tony et al,

I concidered using a hexfet for that function. Ultra-low ON resistance, real
fast. OFF leakage?? Not sure. And you have to watch the ripple current on the
capacitor you are using. You can pull amps out of the cap if the switch
resistance is too low. A series resistance should fix, but then you limit
discharge time. Sigh...

(Soapbox mode ON)
Speaking of switch times, for allyou peoples wiring VCOs don't forget: that
discharge path is going to have some BIG current spikes on it! Run that path
directly to a star ground as far up the power chain as you can.
(Soapbox mode OFF)


Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Clark [mailto:clark at andrews.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 9:36 AM
To: Synth-DIY
Subject: Re: FW: Texas Instruments IC's

   Of course there's always MOSFETs...maybe someone has a direct drop in 
replacement for a 466?  I'd love to know!

   Tony

------------------------------------,----------------------------------
I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
------------------------------------|  
Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
------------------------------------'----------------------------------



From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 21:11:04 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:11:04 -0700
Subject: 3-D module
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18EC@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Okay, I've gotten two nibbbles on the 3D hint I dropped, so I'll elaborate. I
had this crazy idea to make a module with two delay lines in it to simulate the
paths to the ears. Then I did some research and found out that you need more
than just delta delays to get 3D. But not much more (yay). 

So the beastie would be two delay lines and two oscillators rigged to vary the
delays in such a way that 0V CV would be left (arbitrary), 5V CV would be
center, and 10V CV would be right. Then two (lowpass? not sure yet...) filters,
one on each delay line output, to simulate the effect the outer ear has. 

This is actualy true 2D, not 3D. I am still digesting the info I have, which is
in verbose academ-speak. You see, the academic aproach is to understand
something into the ground (with elaborate math, of course). My way is to go play
with it as soon as possible, thus the board/module.

As I understand the technologhy more, I may be able to expand the scope. But at
some point it may become easier to impliment in (gulp) DSP (shudder). 

Thoughts/comments/whatevers welcome.

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Barry L Klein [mailto:Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 11:54 AM
To: Tim_R1 at verifone.com
Subject: RE: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Tim,
If I remember right, one of the timbre modulators was from EN and another
was my own design.  The one that was my own design used several LFO's to
chop up an input signal via comparators.  The result is what can be called
"the beehive effect".  It really sounds like a bunch of bees.  Sometimes
interesting subharmonics are generated, but I don't think its worth trying
to use nonpolaraized electrolytics for the LFO's - just anything would
work.  It might be interesting to have a dual circuit and route one output
left and the other right...  more needs to be done with it.

I'm interested in the 3d module.  What were you planning?

Barry

Studied the timber modulators in Barry Klein's book... Might just have to
proto
a few of those...

Studied 3-D sound effects. Is anyone interested in a module or an
expreimenter's
kit that will do some kind of true 3-D??




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 21:27:26 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:27:26 -0700
Subject: FW: Texas Instruments IC's
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18EE@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Tony,

I looked up some Hexfets. 25uV leakage. Not so good. Next I'll look up your
parts to compare. Thanks for the info!


Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Clark [mailto:clark at andrews.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 9:36 AM
To: Synth-DIY
Subject: Re: FW: Texas Instruments IC's


> Speaking of ECG, these folks (ECG and NTE) can be a nifty resource. I was
> looking for a suitable FET for a VCO. The NTE466 has some decent specs 
> and seems to work okay. And I didnt have to wait for the UPS guy; I got 
> instant gratification, which is soooo important!

   I've used the 466 for some time in my VCO projects and they are pretty 
good.  My biggest problem with them tends to be that they often don't 
reset the VCO all the way to zero (varies from one to the next) unless you 
drive them pretty hard.  That and they tend to be _really_ too expensive 
(okay, so I am a _little_ cheap) for my liking for not working as well as 
other types of FETs.
   My next VCO run will most likely switch to BS170 which has much better 
specs than the 466 but requires opposite gate control and is only $0.45 
each.  Probably an even better type would be an MPF6660 which has lower 
on resistance and faster switching time, but I haven't played with it, yet!
   Of course there's always MOSFETs...maybe someone has a direct drop in 
replacement for a 466?  I'd love to know!

   Tony

------------------------------------,----------------------------------
I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
------------------------------------|  
Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
------------------------------------'----------------------------------



From patchell at silcom.com  Tue May 30 21:31:15 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:31:15 -0700
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <20000530182932.59947.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <39341703.968298F7@silcom.com>



Hairy Harry wrote:

> Autorouters for "contract work" ???
>
> What do you send when you don't care to send the very best ??? (LOL)
>
> H^)
>

    Generally, the customers are more interested in having it now and cheap
rather than pretty and next week.  I have even in the past just done routing.  I
get the board, with all the parts placed and netlist loaded, start up the
router, wait five minutes, write out a bill for $500, and return it the next
day.  I wish I could make that kind of money all the time. :^)

    -Jim




From patchell at silcom.com  Tue May 30 21:34:54 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:34:54 -0700
Subject: Pomona distributor?
References: <382681718.959709321024.JavaMail.root@web313-mc.mail.com>
Message-ID: <393417DE.68C5C1C2@silcom.com>



Paul Wilkinson wrote:

> Anybody have a favorite Pomona distributor?  I need to get some banana
> cables and jacks.  Somewhere cheap with lotsa colours would be great.
>
> - Paul
>

    I have another question to add to this.  Pomona makes stackable banana
patch cables.  I could have sworn that these came in lots of colors (blue,
red, green, black, etc), but in the catalog I have, it shows only red and
black.  Have I got the wrong manufacturer?  Or the wrong catalog?  Or,
like so many other cool things, these are no longer availiable?

    -Jim





From jonathon_parker at hotmail.com  Tue May 30 21:36:32 2000
From: jonathon_parker at hotmail.com (Jon Parker)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:36:32 -0600
Subject: Texas Instruments IC's
References: <1.5.4.32.20000530083619.00ed27dc@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <20000530192928.13835.qmail@hotmail.com>

Thanks for the responses.

I have been using TI chips so far mainly for TL-072 (081, 082 etc.)  The ECG
chip I got was a substitute LM-3046 that I will be using in Tom G's vco3d.
Now I don't think I want to use that chip.  I can't seem to find an LM-3046
made by TI?  What other companies have good reputations for their IC's?

Jon Parker
Jazz Pianist
Denver CO USA
--



From synthdiy at mail.com  Tue May 30 21:56:35 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:56:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <385903952.959716595988.JavaMail.root@web312-mc.mail.com>

When I talk about 3D sound I really mean 2D.  And 2D is enough for me.  Does
"true 3D" mean you can fade vertically as well?

I've used the Buchla 200-series quad stuff, but I much prefer the Serge
design, which I haven't tried.  My Serge was stereo (bought it used) but I
spent many nights dreaming about quad panning + quadrature oscillators + a
pair of CV cross-faders (i.e., the Serge Active Processor) so that I could
cross-fade quad panning patterns.

Come to think of it, being able to fade vertically as well (and make that 3
active processors) would be pretty cool.

Damn it I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight.  Yes I'm interested.

- Paul


------Original Message------
From: Tim Ressel <Tim_R1 at verifone.com>
To: Synth-DIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: May 30, 2000 4:37:37 PM GMT
Subject: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Report:
What I did on my Memorial Day vacation:

Hammered out a design for a (gulp) uP controlled ADSR generator. I know, its
easy to do with a 555. In fact, I have one. But I want linear ramps for some
reason, so I am wanging up a dual ADSR using an HC11. My ADSR question last
week
came after I did the initial state diagram.

Sent off to Mr. Patchell for some MAT-04's. I want to see if I can replace
the
CA3046 in my VCO design. I am doing thermostat heating, and I plan to use
two of
the MAT-04 trannies for temp-sense and heating. Of course, then I discovered
2
MAT-04 samples as I was cleaning...

Studied the timber modulators in Barry Klein's book... Might just have to
proto
a few of those...

Studied 3-D sound effects. Is anyone interested in a module or an
expreimenter's
kit that will do some kind of true 3-D??

But mostly, I cleaned the Dungeon (basement) where my lab is. I'm not what
you'd
call a tidy person. In fact, I'm a bit of a slob. But I've been pecking away
at
it every day, and now I can actually what color the tables are!  This is
good,
because I have these anti-static mats to put down.

oh, yeah: I got the pool clean, just in time for 100 degree California days!

That's all...

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541
tim_r1 at verifone.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Harry Bissell [mailto:harrybissell at prodigy.net]
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 7:48 PM
To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl; efm at xavax.com
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Class...
I expect a report from all US members tomorrow following the holiday
weekend.
World class members... no excuse! Unless you had a national holiday,
emergency,
etc. Then a note from your mother (or wife) will suffice. Your
assignments are still
due on time...

your Teacher !!!

I've been
1) Building my MiniModular (about half done... want to wash it tomorrow
in ozone-safe
<don't worry, still toxic to humans...>  defluxer before putting in the
pots and polystyrene
caps. Spent a hour painting in the lines in the tiny little pots. Used
fluorescent red and a
5-0 paintbrush (left over from negative retouch... eh oldtimers ???)

2) Resurrection of my stereo hex fuzz (from the early 80's). Storage has
not been too
unlind... the bypass relays no longer work (contact corrosion) and there
is a big difference in the gain of my G-Vox pickup (low) and my old 360
Systems pickup (high) so I can
only get slightly into the fuzzes "face" right now. But early
"crunchies" indicate I have been
missing this too long.  What a sweet sound. Double stop bends... no IM
distortion. With
the "slight crunch" it has real nice sustain without the typical harsh
distortion.

3) So I need a new Hex Fuzz module.  I'm planning a Voltage controlled
Fuzz unit, with
sustain, volume, and tone all voltage controlled. It will probably
include an envelope follower (with compression on/off) and VCF, and
final VCA, driven by a separate compressed (on/off) envelope follower.
The idea is that the final VCA can act as a noise gate without killing
sustain too much.

So far I've got a 3080 driving a current to voltage output stage
(inverting) with clipping.
Nice fuzz... not too noisy. The 3080 is the direct preamp for the hex
pickup, but I'm thinking of trying an NE553X  (2, 4???) as a low noise
preamp stage fronting the 3080
(to drive the envelope followers...)

The idea is for a (single... double???) rack unit, with knobs to set the
fuzz parameters.
And a preamp output to go to P/V conversion at a later date. I have a
nice circuit that I'm using to get the pitch output reliably.

The "stereo" function was originally every other string left/right. This
svcked! So I used
low 3 - high 3 so you can use two amps (like a bass amp and a guitar
amp)... IMHO
Stereo outputs are not worth the extra circuitry. What do you think ?

Anyone have any favorite fuzz box ideas ???  Anyone want to play ???

BTW this is a "Guitar Synthesizer" module without VCO's. So don't tell
me to go to
alt.guitar.effects... eh ???

H^)  harry

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From jdec at mindspring.com  Tue May 30 22:11:46 2000
From: jdec at mindspring.com (jdec at mindspring.com)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:11:46 -0400
Subject: Pomona distributor?
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.959717506.0.23709000@www.springmail.com>

>I have another question to add to this.  Pomona makes stackable
>banana patch cables.  I could have sworn that these came in lots 
>of colors (blue, red, green, black, etc), but in the catalog I 
>have, it shows only red and black.  Have I got the wrong
>manufacturer?  Or the wrong catalog?

Jim,

Pomona is definately the correct manufacturer.  Most electronics
re-sellers only carry the black and red cables since they are
the most popular colors.  You might want to call Pomona directly
and find out which company/distributor stocks all the colors.

Cheers,

Jeff R. Dec




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 22:26:31 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:26:31 -0700
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18EF@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Um, yes. A regular pan pot works on levels only. When the pan is full right,
there is no left level. This is NOT the same as 3D (or 2D) panning. In real life
a sound source on your right Can be heard by your left ear. It is delayed,
complexly (?) filtered, there is a shadow echo from your shoulder...you get the
idea.

I am totally unfamiliar with any products on the market which does 3D, except
for the PC stuff. This effort would be a group journey into doing 2- or 3-D in
the analog realm. What can I say? I'm a hands-on kinda guy.

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Wilkinson [mailto:synthdiy at mail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:57 PM
To: Tim Ressel; Synth-DIY
Subject: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


When I talk about 3D sound I really mean 2D.  And 2D is enough for me.  Does
"true 3D" mean you can fade vertically as well?

I've used the Buchla 200-series quad stuff, but I much prefer the Serge
design, which I haven't tried.  My Serge was stereo (bought it used) but I
spent many nights dreaming about quad panning + quadrature oscillators + a
pair of CV cross-faders (i.e., the Serge Active Processor) so that I could
cross-fade quad panning patterns.

Come to think of it, being able to fade vertically as well (and make that 3
active processors) would be pretty cool.

Damn it I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight.  Yes I'm interested.

- Paul


------Original Message------
From: Tim Ressel <Tim_R1 at verifone.com>
To: Synth-DIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: May 30, 2000 4:37:37 PM GMT
Subject: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Report:
What I did on my Memorial Day vacation:

Hammered out a design for a (gulp) uP controlled ADSR generator. I know, its
easy to do with a 555. In fact, I have one. But I want linear ramps for some
reason, so I am wanging up a dual ADSR using an HC11. My ADSR question last
week
came after I did the initial state diagram.

Sent off to Mr. Patchell for some MAT-04's. I want to see if I can replace
the
CA3046 in my VCO design. I am doing thermostat heating, and I plan to use
two of
the MAT-04 trannies for temp-sense and heating. Of course, then I discovered
2
MAT-04 samples as I was cleaning...

Studied the timber modulators in Barry Klein's book... Might just have to
proto
a few of those...

Studied 3-D sound effects. Is anyone interested in a module or an
expreimenter's
kit that will do some kind of true 3-D??

But mostly, I cleaned the Dungeon (basement) where my lab is. I'm not what
you'd
call a tidy person. In fact, I'm a bit of a slob. But I've been pecking away
at
it every day, and now I can actually what color the tables are!  This is
good,
because I have these anti-static mats to put down.

oh, yeah: I got the pool clean, just in time for 100 degree California days!

That's all...

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541
tim_r1 at verifone.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Harry Bissell [mailto:harrybissell at prodigy.net]
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 7:48 PM
To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl; efm at xavax.com
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Class...
I expect a report from all US members tomorrow following the holiday
weekend.
World class members... no excuse! Unless you had a national holiday,
emergency,
etc. Then a note from your mother (or wife) will suffice. Your
assignments are still
due on time...

your Teacher !!!

I've been
1) Building my MiniModular (about half done... want to wash it tomorrow
in ozone-safe
<don't worry, still toxic to humans...>  defluxer before putting in the
pots and polystyrene
caps. Spent a hour painting in the lines in the tiny little pots. Used
fluorescent red and a
5-0 paintbrush (left over from negative retouch... eh oldtimers ???)

2) Resurrection of my stereo hex fuzz (from the early 80's). Storage has
not been too
unlind... the bypass relays no longer work (contact corrosion) and there
is a big difference in the gain of my G-Vox pickup (low) and my old 360
Systems pickup (high) so I can
only get slightly into the fuzzes "face" right now. But early
"crunchies" indicate I have been
missing this too long.  What a sweet sound. Double stop bends... no IM
distortion. With
the "slight crunch" it has real nice sustain without the typical harsh
distortion.

3) So I need a new Hex Fuzz module.  I'm planning a Voltage controlled
Fuzz unit, with
sustain, volume, and tone all voltage controlled. It will probably
include an envelope follower (with compression on/off) and VCF, and
final VCA, driven by a separate compressed (on/off) envelope follower.
The idea is that the final VCA can act as a noise gate without killing
sustain too much.

So far I've got a 3080 driving a current to voltage output stage
(inverting) with clipping.
Nice fuzz... not too noisy. The 3080 is the direct preamp for the hex
pickup, but I'm thinking of trying an NE553X  (2, 4???) as a low noise
preamp stage fronting the 3080
(to drive the envelope followers...)

The idea is for a (single... double???) rack unit, with knobs to set the
fuzz parameters.
And a preamp output to go to P/V conversion at a later date. I have a
nice circuit that I'm using to get the pitch output reliably.

The "stereo" function was originally every other string left/right. This
svcked! So I used
low 3 - high 3 so you can use two amps (like a bass amp and a guitar
amp)... IMHO
Stereo outputs are not worth the extra circuitry. What do you think ?

Anyone have any favorite fuzz box ideas ???  Anyone want to play ???

BTW this is a "Guitar Synthesizer" module without VCO's. So don't tell
me to go to
alt.guitar.effects... eh ???

H^)  harry

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup



From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 22:30:48 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:30:48 -0700
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18F0@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Ah, autorouters. I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but there are certain,
er, risks when autorouting. We got a layout back from a contract house (picked
for speed), and all of the Vcc vias were tied to Vcc and ground. Five, cout them
FIVE engineers looked at the gerbers and didn't catch it until the boards were
fabbed and checked. Note that the PCB house didn't catch it either. 

There is a lesson in there somewhere, which I'll leave to you.

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Patchell [mailto:patchell at silcom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:31 PM
To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl
Subject: Re: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?




Hairy Harry wrote:

> Autorouters for "contract work" ???
>
> What do you send when you don't care to send the very best ??? (LOL)
>
> H^)
>

    Generally, the customers are more interested in having it now and cheap
rather than pretty and next week.  I have even in the past just done routing.  I
get the board, with all the parts placed and netlist loaded, start up the
router, wait five minutes, write out a bill for $500, and return it the next
day.  I wish I could make that kind of money all the time. :^)

    -Jim



From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 22:38:46 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:38:46 -0700
Subject: Envelope gen operation
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18F1@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

So,
 I have decided to make my ADSR dual-function. If a gate arrives then an ADSR
cycle will be done. If a lone trigger occurs, then an AR cycle is done. Its
almost like I have two gates: one for ADSR and one for AR. 

Any thoughts?

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     




From sdcurtin at lucent.com  Tue May 30 22:44:32 2000
From: sdcurtin at lucent.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:44:32 -0400
Subject: Pomona distributor?
Message-ID: <F38185D061EBD21185F10008C7F926CE028E1DFB@nj7460exch007u.ho.lucent.com>

Here's one distributor that seems to stock more than red and black:

http://www.rselectronics.com/

Banana Cables are Pomona part number B-(length)-(color).  $4 each.

There are some multicable package deals that are cheaper.

Banana Jacks are Pomona part number 1581-(color).  $1 each.

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at lucent.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	Jim Patchell[SMTP:patchell at silcom.com]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:34 PM
> Cc: 	Synth synthdiy
> Subject: 	Re: Pomona distributor?
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Wilkinson wrote:
> 
> > Anybody have a favorite Pomona distributor?  I need to get some banana
> > cables and jacks.  Somewhere cheap with lotsa colours would be great.
> >
> > - Paul
> >
> 
>     I have another question to add to this.  Pomona makes stackable banana
> patch cables.  I could have sworn that these came in lots of colors (blue,
> red, green, black, etc), but in the catalog I have, it shows only red and
> black.  Have I got the wrong manufacturer?  Or the wrong catalog?  Or,
> like so many other cool things, these are no longer availiable?
> 
>     -Jim
> 
> 



From RobertD at concur.com  Tue May 30 22:49:08 2000
From: RobertD at concur.com (Robert Donker)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:49:08 -0700
Subject: 3-D module
Message-ID: <4BEBBAC806C0D311BBAD009027B8D45701802A6C@gemini.xpense.com>

This is a much more complicated problem. The ears have dynamic timbre
effects. Not just delay but pitch. Like light different pitches move through
your ears at different rates and disperse at different rates. You will also
find the front / rear can not be simulated, in the end you need four
speakers. The DOD has done a lot of research in this subject. When I was in
college I did some research on this subject. You might also look at current
technology in sound placement being done commercially like Q sound.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Ressel [mailto:Tim_R1 at verifone.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:11 PM
To: Synth-DIY
Subject: 3-D module


Okay, I've gotten two nibbbles on the 3D hint I dropped, so I'll elaborate.
I
had this crazy idea to make a module with two delay lines in it to simulate
the
paths to the ears. Then I did some research and found out that you need more
than just delta delays to get 3D. But not much more (yay). 

So the beastie would be two delay lines and two oscillators rigged to vary
the
delays in such a way that 0V CV would be left (arbitrary), 5V CV would be
center, and 10V CV would be right. Then two (lowpass? not sure yet...)
filters,
one on each delay line output, to simulate the effect the outer ear has. 

This is actualy true 2D, not 3D. I am still digesting the info I have, which
is
in verbose academ-speak. You see, the academic aproach is to understand
something into the ground (with elaborate math, of course). My way is to go
play
with it as soon as possible, thus the board/module.

As I understand the technologhy more, I may be able to expand the scope. But
at
some point it may become easier to impliment in (gulp) DSP (shudder). 

Thoughts/comments/whatevers welcome.

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Barry L Klein [mailto:Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 11:54 AM
To: Tim_R1 at verifone.com
Subject: RE: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Tim,
If I remember right, one of the timbre modulators was from EN and another
was my own design.  The one that was my own design used several LFO's to
chop up an input signal via comparators.  The result is what can be called
"the beehive effect".  It really sounds like a bunch of bees.  Sometimes
interesting subharmonics are generated, but I don't think its worth trying
to use nonpolaraized electrolytics for the LFO's - just anything would
work.  It might be interesting to have a dual circuit and route one output
left and the other right...  more needs to be done with it.

I'm interested in the 3d module.  What were you planning?

Barry

Studied the timber modulators in Barry Klein's book... Might just have to
proto
a few of those...

Studied 3-D sound effects. Is anyone interested in a module or an
expreimenter's
kit that will do some kind of true 3-D??



From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 23:05:42 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:05:42 -0700
Subject: 3-D module
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18F2@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Robert,

I'm not too sure about that, for two reasons. For one, on Larry Fast's Sequencer
lp, Track 3 has an effect that always sounds to me like its behind me (with
headphones on). And two, just 'cause the DOD sez its so, doesn't mean it is.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dis'en you or your research, just the DOD's. There
might be tricks the DOD didn't think of.

Its like M.I.T. in the 60's. All these grad students sitting around calculating
how tough it will be when someday someone gets around to making a robot navigate
using vision and AI. Meanwhile downstairs a high-school kid hanging around the
labs makes a robot that, using vision and AI (of sorts), finds a thrown wallet
on the floor and scoots it to its destination.

No offense, but I will still play with it. Your help will be greatly
appreciated. 

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Donker [mailto:RobertD at concur.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 1:49 PM
To: 'Tim Ressel'; Synth-DIY
Subject: RE: 3-D module


This is a much more complicated problem. The ears have dynamic timbre
effects. Not just delay but pitch. Like light different pitches move through
your ears at different rates and disperse at different rates. You will also
find the front / rear can not be simulated, in the end you need four
speakers. The DOD has done a lot of research in this subject. When I was in
college I did some research on this subject. You might also look at current
technology in sound placement being done commercially like Q sound.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Ressel [mailto:Tim_R1 at verifone.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:11 PM
To: Synth-DIY
Subject: 3-D module


Okay, I've gotten two nibbbles on the 3D hint I dropped, so I'll elaborate.
I
had this crazy idea to make a module with two delay lines in it to simulate
the
paths to the ears. Then I did some research and found out that you need more
than just delta delays to get 3D. But not much more (yay). 

So the beastie would be two delay lines and two oscillators rigged to vary
the
delays in such a way that 0V CV would be left (arbitrary), 5V CV would be
center, and 10V CV would be right. Then two (lowpass? not sure yet...)
filters,
one on each delay line output, to simulate the effect the outer ear has. 

This is actualy true 2D, not 3D. I am still digesting the info I have, which
is
in verbose academ-speak. You see, the academic aproach is to understand
something into the ground (with elaborate math, of course). My way is to go
play
with it as soon as possible, thus the board/module.

As I understand the technologhy more, I may be able to expand the scope. But
at
some point it may become easier to impliment in (gulp) DSP (shudder). 

Thoughts/comments/whatevers welcome.

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Barry L Klein [mailto:Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 11:54 AM
To: Tim_R1 at verifone.com
Subject: RE: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Tim,
If I remember right, one of the timbre modulators was from EN and another
was my own design.  The one that was my own design used several LFO's to
chop up an input signal via comparators.  The result is what can be called
"the beehive effect".  It really sounds like a bunch of bees.  Sometimes
interesting subharmonics are generated, but I don't think its worth trying
to use nonpolaraized electrolytics for the LFO's - just anything would
work.  It might be interesting to have a dual circuit and route one output
left and the other right...  more needs to be done with it.

I'm interested in the 3d module.  What were you planning?

Barry

Studied the timber modulators in Barry Klein's book... Might just have to
proto
a few of those...

Studied 3-D sound effects. Is anyone interested in a module or an
expreimenter's
kit that will do some kind of true 3-D??



From patchell at silcom.com  Tue May 30 23:11:01 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:11:01 -0700
Subject: Texas Instruments IC's
References: <1.5.4.32.20000530083619.00ed27dc@popa.melbpc.org.au> <20000530192928.13835.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <39342E65.7AC91E09@silcom.com>

    LM3046 is the National Semiconductor part number for the RCA CA3046 (now
made by intersil).  There are lots of good places to get this part (one of my
favorites).  I got mine from JDR (http://www.jdr.com), or you can get them from
Jameco (http://www.jameco.com), or digikey (http://www.digikey.com), and many
others.  Best of all, they are cheap ($0.40->0.50 range).  As far as I know TI
never made this part.

    I have a list of useful parts and where to get them at
http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/usefulparts/usefull.html

    -Jim

Jon Parker wrote:

> Thanks for the responses.
>
> I have been using TI chips so far mainly for TL-072 (081, 082 etc.)  The ECG
> chip I got was a substitute LM-3046 that I will be using in Tom G's vco3d.
> Now I don't think I want to use that chip.  I can't seem to find an LM-3046
> made by TI?  What other companies have good reputations for their IC's?
>
> Jon Parker
> Jazz Pianist
> Denver CO USA
> --




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 23:15:01 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:15:01 -0700
Subject: Pomona distributor?
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18F3@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Jim,

1999 Pomona catalog page 55 top: the b-4-* thru B-72-* come in ten colors. ITs
the 2948 gold plated ones that are red and black only. Unless the 2000 catalog
(is there one?) changed, you're safe.

I know what you mean on both counts. Kool stuff always goes away, and those
patch cords are kool; I have boxes of them.

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Patchell [mailto:patchell at silcom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:35 PM
Cc: Synth synthdiy
Subject: Re: Pomona distributor?




Paul Wilkinson wrote:

> Anybody have a favorite Pomona distributor?  I need to get some banana
> cables and jacks.  Somewhere cheap with lotsa colours would be great.
>
> - Paul
>

    I have another question to add to this.  Pomona makes stackable banana
patch cables.  I could have sworn that these came in lots of colors (blue,
red, green, black, etc), but in the catalog I have, it shows only red and
black.  Have I got the wrong manufacturer?  Or the wrong catalog?  Or,
like so many other cool things, these are no longer availiable?

    -Jim




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 23:20:11 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:20:11 -0700
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18F4@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

It has to do with the shape of that floopy piece of tissue outside the ear
canal. Multiple reflections and filtering and ow ow ow my brain hurts.

Check out:
http://www-engr.sjsu.edu/~knapp/HCIROD3D/3D_home.htm

It is where I've been getting my info.



Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Tymofichuk [mailto:dougt at cancerboard.AB.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 2:23 PM
To: Synth-DIY
Cc: Tim Ressel
Subject: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?



On Tue, 30 May 2000 15:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Paul Wilkinson 
<synthdiy at mail.com> wrote:

> When I talk about 3D sound I really mean 2D.  And 2D is 
> enough for me.  Does "true 3D" mean you can fade vertically 
> as well?
>  
> Come to think of it, being able to fade vertically as well 
> (and make that 3 active processors) would be pretty cool.
> 
> Damn it I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight.  Yes I'm 
> interested.
> 
> - Paul
> 
How in the world does one move a sound vertically? I know 
that a decent stereo system can project sounds that way, 
but what is the trick to doing it manually? Some kind of 
phase shift? This sounds like a lot of fun, especially if 
it can be done all analogue.

----------------------
Doug Tymofichuk
dougt at cancerboard.ab.ca



From dougt at cancerboard.ab.ca  Tue May 30 23:23:18 2000
From: dougt at cancerboard.ab.ca (Doug Tymofichuk)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:23:18 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
In-Reply-To: <385903952.959716595988.JavaMail.root@web312-mc.mail.com>
Message-ID: <SIMEON.10005301518.F@tmg04.cancerboard.ab.ca>


On Tue, 30 May 2000 15:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Paul Wilkinson 
<synthdiy at mail.com> wrote:

> When I talk about 3D sound I really mean 2D.  And 2D is 
> enough for me.  Does "true 3D" mean you can fade vertically 
> as well?
>  
> Come to think of it, being able to fade vertically as well 
> (and make that 3 active processors) would be pretty cool.
> 
> Damn it I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight.  Yes I'm 
> interested.
> 
> - Paul
> 
How in the world does one move a sound vertically? I know 
that a decent stereo system can project sounds that way, 
but what is the trick to doing it manually? Some kind of 
phase shift? This sounds like a lot of fun, especially if 
it can be done all analogue.

----------------------
Doug Tymofichuk
dougt at cancerboard.ab.ca




From Tim_R1 at verifone.com  Tue May 30 23:25:18 2000
From: Tim_R1 at verifone.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:25:18 -0700
Subject: Texas Instruments IC's
Message-ID: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18F5@SMF-NT-MAIL1>

Also look under CA3046. It is originally an RCA part.

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Parker [mailto:jonathon_parker at hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:37 PM
To: Synth-DIY
Subject: Re: Texas Instruments IC's


Thanks for the responses.

I have been using TI chips so far mainly for TL-072 (081, 082 etc.)  The ECG
chip I got was a substitute LM-3046 that I will be using in Tom G's vco3d.
Now I don't think I want to use that chip.  I can't seem to find an LM-3046
made by TI?  What other companies have good reputations for their IC's?

Jon Parker
Jazz Pianist
Denver CO USA
--



From patchell at silcom.com  Tue May 30 23:36:01 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:36:01 -0700
Subject: Pomona distributor?
References: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18F3@SMF-NT-MAIL1>
Message-ID: <39343441.3F5ECB34@silcom.com>

    Just sent in my request for a Pomona Catalog.  Thanks for the Info.

    -Jim

Tim Ressel wrote:

> Jim,
>
> 1999 Pomona catalog page 55 top: the b-4-* thru B-72-* come in ten colors. ITs
> the 2948 gold plated ones that are red and black only. Unless the 2000 catalog
> (is there one?) changed, you're safe.
>
> I know what you mean on both counts. Kool stuff always goes away, and those
> patch cords are kool; I have boxes of them.
>
> Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
> Hewlett-Packard
> Verifone Division
> 916-630-2541
> tim_r1 at verifone.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Patchell [mailto:patchell at silcom.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:35 PM
> Cc: Synth synthdiy
> Subject: Re: Pomona distributor?
>
> Paul Wilkinson wrote:
>
> > Anybody have a favorite Pomona distributor?  I need to get some banana
> > cables and jacks.  Somewhere cheap with lotsa colours would be great.
> >
> > - Paul
> >
>
>     I have another question to add to this.  Pomona makes stackable banana
> patch cables.  I could have sworn that these came in lots of colors (blue,
> red, green, black, etc), but in the catalog I have, it shows only red and
> black.  Have I got the wrong manufacturer?  Or the wrong catalog?  Or,
> like so many other cool things, these are no longer availiable?
>
>     -Jim




From RobertD at concur.com  Wed May 31 00:39:19 2000
From: RobertD at concur.com (Robert Donker)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:39:19 -0700
Subject: 3-D module
Message-ID: <4BEBBAC806C0D311BBAD009027B8D45701802A74@gemini.xpense.com>

That's an artifact. It's a well established that its impossible to qualify
this in a reproducible way. It is some times true you can experience sound
coming from the rear while using just two speakers (I've had this experience
with headphones too). I worked some time on this have some professional
experience with the engineers @ QSound. The problem is consistency. Without
a reference to "lock" the listener to the effect, some will perceive as in
front, some will perceive in the rear. I use Serge quad panners. It's the
only way to go. Supporting four channels of output is expensive though.

A trick QSound would use is to start with a very dry signal, this usual
brings the listeners perception to the "front", ounce established, you can
move the signal forward towards the listener, then as the sound moves away,
it will be perceived as moving to the rear. A small percentage of listeners
will still perceive this as "bouncing" back to the front.

I've taken this offline because my information about QSound is still under
NDA. If you can solve this problem, they would be very interested.
-RP:D

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Ressel [mailto:Tim_R1 at verifone.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 2:06 PM
To: Synth-DIY
Subject: RE: 3-D module


Robert,

I'm not too sure about that, for two reasons. For one, on Larry Fast's
Sequencer
lp, Track 3 has an effect that always sounds to me like its behind me (with
headphones on). And two, just 'cause the DOD sez its so, doesn't mean it is.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dis'en you or your research, just the DOD's.
There
might be tricks the DOD didn't think of.

Its like M.I.T. in the 60's. All these grad students sitting around
calculating
how tough it will be when someday someone gets around to making a robot
navigate
using vision and AI. Meanwhile downstairs a high-school kid hanging around
the
labs makes a robot that, using vision and AI (of sorts), finds a thrown
wallet
on the floor and scoots it to its destination.

No offense, but I will still play with it. Your help will be greatly
appreciated. 

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Donker [mailto:RobertD at concur.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 1:49 PM
To: 'Tim Ressel'; Synth-DIY
Subject: RE: 3-D module


This is a much more complicated problem. The ears have dynamic timbre
effects. Not just delay but pitch. Like light different pitches move through
your ears at different rates and disperse at different rates. You will also
find the front / rear can not be simulated, in the end you need four
speakers. The DOD has done a lot of research in this subject. When I was in
college I did some research on this subject. You might also look at current
technology in sound placement being done commercially like Q sound.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Ressel [mailto:Tim_R1 at verifone.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:11 PM
To: Synth-DIY
Subject: 3-D module


Okay, I've gotten two nibbbles on the 3D hint I dropped, so I'll elaborate.
I
had this crazy idea to make a module with two delay lines in it to simulate
the
paths to the ears. Then I did some research and found out that you need more
than just delta delays to get 3D. But not much more (yay). 

So the beastie would be two delay lines and two oscillators rigged to vary
the
delays in such a way that 0V CV would be left (arbitrary), 5V CV would be
center, and 10V CV would be right. Then two (lowpass? not sure yet...)
filters,
one on each delay line output, to simulate the effect the outer ear has. 

This is actualy true 2D, not 3D. I am still digesting the info I have, which
is
in verbose academ-speak. You see, the academic aproach is to understand
something into the ground (with elaborate math, of course). My way is to go
play
with it as soon as possible, thus the board/module.

As I understand the technologhy more, I may be able to expand the scope. But
at
some point it may become easier to impliment in (gulp) DSP (shudder). 

Thoughts/comments/whatevers welcome.

Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
Hewlett-Packard
Verifone Division
916-630-2541  
tim_r1 at verifone.com                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Barry L Klein [mailto:Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 11:54 AM
To: Tim_R1 at verifone.com
Subject: RE: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Tim,
If I remember right, one of the timbre modulators was from EN and another
was my own design.  The one that was my own design used several LFO's to
chop up an input signal via comparators.  The result is what can be called
"the beehive effect".  It really sounds like a bunch of bees.  Sometimes
interesting subharmonics are generated, but I don't think its worth trying
to use nonpolaraized electrolytics for the LFO's - just anything would
work.  It might be interesting to have a dual circuit and route one output
left and the other right...  more needs to be done with it.

I'm interested in the 3d module.  What were you planning?

Barry

Studied the timber modulators in Barry Klein's book... Might just have to
proto
a few of those...

Studied 3-D sound effects. Is anyone interested in a module or an
expreimenter's
kit that will do some kind of true 3-D??



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Wed May 31 00:58:01 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 00:58:01 +0200
Subject: 3-D module
In-Reply-To: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18EC@SMF-NT-MAIL1>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000531005801.00959d00@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

Hi Tim and others!

Thats possible, and it is being done in computer games. However I have
programs 
which came with the onboard soundcard which does this. But I've got a real
soundcard too! One is a stupid game where you shoot boulders in space, and
can hear in which direction they're coming, at least with earphones!

The problem seems to be that every individual has different ears, and the
way you distinguish sounds in vertical and lateral directions depends on that.
Although I'd say its musically useful anyway! The shape of the filter/s
would have to be variable to be able to sense vertical direction. Ah, and
one should not forget doppler effects for a convincing moving sound source.

my 0.02 whatevers!

Bye,
 Ren?

-- 
my keyboard gets   | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
flakey so here are | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
the missing "M"s:  | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 




From kirke at lmi.net  Wed May 31 01:07:12 2000
From: kirke at lmi.net (Kirke Sonnichsen)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:07:12 -0700
Subject: Envelope gen operation
Message-ID: <v02130500b559f676632d@[208.25.89.76]>

Why not make the response that occurs when only a
trigger received user selectable? A only, AD, ADR,
AR, D only, etc.

- Kirke
(so many transients, such little time)

>So,
> I have decided to make my ADSR dual-function. If a gate arrives then an ADSR
>cycle will be done. If a lone trigger occurs, then an AR cycle is done. Its
>almost like I have two gates: one for ADSR and one for AR. 
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
>Hewlett-Packard
>Verifone Division
>916-630-2541  
>tim_r1 at verifone.com                     





From jonathon_parker at hotmail.com  Wed May 31 01:37:04 2000
From: jonathon_parker at hotmail.com (Jon Parker)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:37:04 -0600
Subject: Texas Instruments IC's
References: <1.5.4.32.20000530083619.00ed27dc@popa.melbpc.org.au> <20000530192928.13835.qmail@hotmail.com> <39342E65.7AC91E09@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <20000530232958.48058.qmail@hotmail.com>

>     LM3046 is the National Semiconductor part number for the RCA CA3046
(now
> made by intersil).  There are lots of good places to get this part (one of
my
> favorites).  I got mine from JDR (http://www.jdr.com), or you can get them
from
> Jameco (http://www.jameco.com), or digikey (http://www.digikey.com), and
many
> others.  Best of all, they are cheap ($0.40->0.50 range).  As far as I
know TI
> never made this part.
>
>     I have a list of useful parts and where to get them at
> http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/usefulparts/usefull.html

Jim and others,
This is all good information.  Now I can't believe I payed $4 for the ECG
equivelent (especially when a lot of my diy budget comes from my loose
change at the end of the day.)

On another note, I recently bought a Edsyn 951SX soldering station (quite an
upgrade from my cheap butane RS wannabe) and an Edsyn solderpullt
soldersucker.  Things I never knew I NEEDED till I got on this list back in
January.

Thanks again,

Jon Parker
Jazz Pianist
Denver CO USA
--




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Wed May 31 01:40:02 2000
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 01:40:02 +0200
Subject: jFET discharge (was: RE: FW: Texas Instruments IC's)
In-Reply-To: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18EA@SMF-NT-MAIL1>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000531014002.00967180@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 11:51 30.05.00 -0700, Tim Ressel wrote:
>Tony et al,
>
>I concidered using a hexfet for that function. Ultra-low ON resistance, real
>fast. OFF leakage?? Not sure. And you have to watch the ripple current on the
>capacitor you are using. You can pull amps out of the cap if the switch
>resistance is too low. A series resistance should fix, but then you limit
>discharge time. Sigh...

In case of the jFET as a discharge switch the Idss is the maximum current
that can flow! Some few mA not more! On-resistance is only interesting in
the region where Vds (or V of your cap) is near or less than Vp. Above that
a jFET acts as a constant current source. I've always seen a linear
starting ramp when testing jFET discharge. 
BTW. The IMO ultimate cure for leakage can be found at my site. One can
combine this with a more leaky switch, and still be faster than with
something else.

Bye,
 Ren?





-- 
my keyboard gets   | uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
flakey so here are | http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
the missing "M"s:  | http://members.xoom.com/Rene_Schmitz
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 




From synthdiy at mail.com  Wed May 31 01:41:32 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:41:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <384329055.959730092162.JavaMail.root@web538-mc.mail.com>

Audium is the only purpose-built electronic music performance venue I've
come across.  169 speakers, I do believe.  The music is pre-recorded and the
spatialization is performed live.

I keep hearing rumours that the guy there is going to open it up to other
composers/performers - has anybody heard of anybody else performing there?

- Paul

------Original Message------
From: "Curtin, Steven D (Steven)" <sdcurtin at lucent.com>
To: "'Paul Wilkinson'" <synthdiy at mail.com>
Sent: May 30, 2000 8:56:47 PM GMT
Subject: RE: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


Have you ever gone to Audium?  It's a performance space in San Francisco
with hundreds of speakers, the builder/performer takes a four track tape and
moves it around in real time.

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at lucent.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	Paul Wilkinson[SMTP:synthdiy at mail.com]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:56 PM
> To: 	Tim Ressel; Synth-DIY
> Subject: 	Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
>
> When I talk about 3D sound I really mean 2D.  And 2D is enough for me.
> Does
> "true 3D" mean you can fade vertically as well?
>
> I've used the Buchla 200-series quad stuff, but I much prefer the Serge
> design, which I haven't tried.  My Serge was stereo (bought it used) but I
> spent many nights dreaming about quad panning + quadrature oscillators + a
> pair of CV cross-faders (i.e., the Serge Active Processor) so that I could
> cross-fade quad panning patterns.
>
> Come to think of it, being able to fade vertically as well (and make that
> 3
> active processors) would be pretty cool.
>
> Damn it I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight.  Yes I'm interested.
>
> - Paul
>
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Tim Ressel <Tim_R1 at verifone.com>
> To: Synth-DIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
> Sent: May 30, 2000 4:37:37 PM GMT
> Subject: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
>
>
> Report:
> What I did on my Memorial Day vacation:
>
> Hammered out a design for a (gulp) uP controlled ADSR generator. I know,
> its
> easy to do with a 555. In fact, I have one. But I want linear ramps for
> some
> reason, so I am wanging up a dual ADSR using an HC11. My ADSR question
> last
> week
> came after I did the initial state diagram.
>
> Sent off to Mr. Patchell for some MAT-04's. I want to see if I can replace
> the
> CA3046 in my VCO design. I am doing thermostat heating, and I plan to use
> two of
> the MAT-04 trannies for temp-sense and heating. Of course, then I
> discovered
> 2
> MAT-04 samples as I was cleaning...
>
> Studied the timber modulators in Barry Klein's book... Might just have to
> proto
> a few of those...
>
> Studied 3-D sound effects. Is anyone interested in a module or an
> expreimenter's
> kit that will do some kind of true 3-D??
>
> But mostly, I cleaned the Dungeon (basement) where my lab is. I'm not what
> you'd
> call a tidy person. In fact, I'm a bit of a slob. But I've been pecking
> away
> at
> it every day, and now I can actually what color the tables are!  This is
> good,
> because I have these anti-static mats to put down.
>
> oh, yeah: I got the pool clean, just in time for 100 degree California
> days!
>
> That's all...
>
> Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
> Hewlett-Packard
> Verifone Division
> 916-630-2541
> tim_r1 at verifone.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harry Bissell [mailto:harrybissell at prodigy.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 7:48 PM
> To: synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl; efm at xavax.com
> Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
>
>
> Class...
> I expect a report from all US members tomorrow following the holiday
> weekend.
> World class members... no excuse! Unless you had a national holiday,
> emergency,
> etc. Then a note from your mother (or wife) will suffice. Your
> assignments are still
> due on time...
>
> your Teacher !!!
>
> I've been
> 1) Building my MiniModular (about half done... want to wash it tomorrow
> in ozone-safe
> <don't worry, still toxic to humans...>  defluxer before putting in the
> pots and polystyrene
> caps. Spent a hour painting in the lines in the tiny little pots. Used
> fluorescent red and a
> 5-0 paintbrush (left over from negative retouch... eh oldtimers ???)
>
> 2) Resurrection of my stereo hex fuzz (from the early 80's). Storage has
> not been too
> unlind... the bypass relays no longer work (contact corrosion) and there
> is a big difference in the gain of my G-Vox pickup (low) and my old 360
> Systems pickup (high) so I can
> only get slightly into the fuzzes "face" right now. But early
> "crunchies" indicate I have been
> missing this too long.  What a sweet sound. Double stop bends... no IM
> distortion. With
> the "slight crunch" it has real nice sustain without the typical harsh
> distortion.
>
> 3) So I need a new Hex Fuzz module.  I'm planning a Voltage controlled
> Fuzz unit, with
> sustain, volume, and tone all voltage controlled. It will probably
> include an envelope follower (with compression on/off) and VCF, and
> final VCA, driven by a separate compressed (on/off) envelope follower.
> The idea is that the final VCA can act as a noise gate without killing
> sustain too much.
>
> So far I've got a 3080 driving a current to voltage output stage
> (inverting) with clipping.
> Nice fuzz... not too noisy. The 3080 is the direct preamp for the hex
> pickup, but I'm thinking of trying an NE553X  (2, 4???) as a low noise
> preamp stage fronting the 3080
> (to drive the envelope followers...)
>
> The idea is for a (single... double???) rack unit, with knobs to set the
> fuzz parameters.
> And a preamp output to go to P/V conversion at a later date. I have a
> nice circuit that I'm using to get the pitch output reliably.
>
> The "stereo" function was originally every other string left/right. This
> svcked! So I used
> low 3 - high 3 so you can use two amps (like a bass amp and a guitar
> amp)... IMHO
> Stereo outputs are not worth the extra circuitry. What do you think ?
>
> Anyone have any favorite fuzz box ideas ???  Anyone want to play ???
>
> BTW this is a "Guitar Synthesizer" module without VCO's. So don't tell
> me to go to
> alt.guitar.effects... eh ???
>
> H^)  harry
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>

______________________________________________
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From mgm at starlingtech.com  Wed May 31 01:57:05 2000
From: mgm at starlingtech.com (Michael Moncur)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:57:05 -0600
Subject: 3-D module
In-Reply-To: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18EC@SMF-NT-MAIL1>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000530175518.00a84560@mail.xmission.com>

on 01:11 PM 5/30/00 , Tim Ressel wrote:

>As I understand the technologhy more, I may be able to expand the scope. 
>But at
>some point it may become easier to impliment in (gulp) DSP (shudder).

I hate to admit knowledge of such things on this list :) but there are 
several DSP implementations of this effect done with plug-ins for Cubase 
VST, DirectX, etc. QSound, as someone already mentioned, being one of them.

But I'd love to see an analog version. And I'd buy the kit.




--
michael moncur   mgm at starlingtech.com   http://www.starlingtech.com/
"The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
                 -- Joe Ancis



From synth1 at airmail.net  Wed May 31 02:03:37 2000
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:03:37 -0500
Subject: 3D Audio
References: <384329055.959730092162.JavaMail.root@web538-mc.mail.com>
Message-ID: <003601bfca93$acb4da40$0100007f@localhost>

This is referred to in technical literature as HRTF: Head-Related Transfer
Function. Earlier literature
called it pinna transfer (the pinna is the *official* name of the outside
ear).

If you search JASA (Journal of the Acoustical Society of America) there are
a bizillion articles.

Paul S.





From synthdiy at mail.com  Wed May 31 02:09:12 2000
From: synthdiy at mail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:09:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <383349416.959731752682.JavaMail.root@web303-mc.mail.com>

Take all this with a grain of salt.

The only way to convincing position a sound is to position it at or between
speakers.  It's true that with good stereos the sound has height and goes
past the limits of the speakers. (In my experience this is where records are
better than CD's.)  But this extra range is very difficult to control.

3D position is simulated using phase (which is really delay) and filters
that simulate what your head and ears do to sound coming from behind you
(head related transfer functions, or HRTF's).

The problem in a nutshell is this:  Something on your right is heard with
both ears.  So any simulation has to play it out of both speakers.  But then
you hear both speakers out of both ears, so you have 4 signals at work.  In
a perfect world you'd arrange these signals so that they cancelled out the
difference between the 4 signals and the 2 you really want.  But as soon as
you add room acoustics it's easy to see how impossible this is.  And then
there's the differences between peoples' systems ...

I do video game audio programming for a living so I have plenty of
experience with 3D sound simulation (like QSound, SBLive).  None of it
provides convincing positional placement, although it does increase the size
of the stereo image.  If this is what you want, then you're in luck.  But if
you want to whip a sound around somebody's head you'll have to resort to
extra speakers and use the effect only in performance.  And that's good
enough for me.  Let's do it!

- Paul


------Original Message------
From: Doug Tymofichuk <dougt at cancerboard.ab.ca>
To: Synth-DIY <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: May 30, 2000 9:23:18 PM GMT
Subject: Re: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?



On Tue, 30 May 2000 15:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Paul Wilkinson
<synthdiy at mail.com> wrote:

> When I talk about 3D sound I really mean 2D.  And 2D is
> enough for me.  Does "true 3D" mean you can fade vertically
> as well?
>
> Come to think of it, being able to fade vertically as well
> (and make that 3 active processors) would be pretty cool.
>
> Damn it I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight.  Yes I'm
> interested.
>
> - Paul
>
How in the world does one move a sound vertically? I know
that a decent stereo system can project sounds that way,
but what is the trick to doing it manually? Some kind of
phase shift? This sounds like a lot of fun, especially if
it can be done all analogue.

----------------------
Doug Tymofichuk
dougt at cancerboard.ab.ca

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup




From thescum at surfree.com  Wed May 31 02:10:25 2000
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:10:25 -0400
Subject: Envelope gen operation
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000531001025.012fd098@smtp.surfree.com>

> I have decided to make my ADSR dual-function. If a gate arrives then an ADSR
>cycle will be done. If a lone trigger occurs, then an AR cycle is done. Its
>almost like I have two gates: one for ADSR and one for AR. 

I've got an old EG design that's something like that.

It's really a coupled AD generator, with a parallel AR generator, bith
driven from the same gate.  The outputs are summed together to make the ADSR
shape, and the attack pot is a dual-ganged one.

With a little work, this module could be a lot more flexible, if I'd broken
out the individual AD/AR shapes, and had both attack times on their own
pots...then up to 2 trigger inputs as well...I might as well just build two
seperate modules!

Byron Jacquot




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed May 31 02:44:22 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:44:22 -0400
Subject: FW: Texas Instruments IC's
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000530121623.24782F-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <39346065.FB6A2224@prodigy.net>

I've tried the Siliconix VN1206 for reset duty. Had to use two in series (go
figure...)
Think it has to do with the body diode. This was on a TomG VCO4, so I also
moddied the pullup on the comparator to +12 volts (was 6V). Did not work as
well as MPF-102 !
But more experiments could be needed...

H^)  harry


Tony Clark wrote:

> > Speaking of ECG, these folks (ECG and NTE) can be a nifty resource. I was
> > looking for a suitable FET for a VCO. The NTE466 has some decent specs
> > and seems to work okay. And I didnt have to wait for the UPS guy; I got
> > instant gratification, which is soooo important!
>
>    I've used the 466 for some time in my VCO projects and they are pretty
> good.  My biggest problem with them tends to be that they often don't
> reset the VCO all the way to zero (varies from one to the next) unless you
> drive them pretty hard.  That and they tend to be _really_ too expensive
> (okay, so I am a _little_ cheap) for my liking for not working as well as
> other types of FETs.
>    My next VCO run will most likely switch to BS170 which has much better
> specs than the 466 but requires opposite gate control and is only $0.45
> each.  Probably an even better type would be an MPF6660 which has lower
> on resistance and faster switching time, but I haven't played with it, yet!
>    Of course there's always MOSFETs...maybe someone has a direct drop in
> replacement for a 466?  I'd love to know!
>
>    Tony
>
> ------------------------------------,----------------------------------
> I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
> ------------------------------------|
> Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
> http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
> ------------------------------------'----------------------------------




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed May 31 02:50:08 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:50:08 -0400
Subject: FW: Texas Instruments IC's
References: <614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B4873013C18EA@SMF-NT-MAIL1>
Message-ID: <393461C0.5349965@prodigy.net>

The "discharge path" should be a short loop, you are dumping the cap across
itself...
OTOH that will make a major league magnetic pulse. Keeping other stuff away will
be good... and minimising the stray inductance will help speed things along...

I don't think the star ground will play for the discharge reason, but it is
Really GOOD
practice anyway...

Please update my thinking if I've got the discharge path wrong...

H^)   harry

Tim Ressel wrote:

> Tony et al,
>
> I concidered using a hexfet for that function. Ultra-low ON resistance, real
> fast. OFF leakage?? Not sure. And you have to watch the ripple current on the
> capacitor you are using. You can pull amps out of the cap if the switch
> resistance is too low. A series resistance should fix, but then you limit
> discharge time. Sigh...
>
> (Soapbox mode ON)
> Speaking of switch times, for allyou peoples wiring VCOs don't forget: that
> discharge path is going to have some BIG current spikes on it! Run that path
> directly to a star ground as far up the power chain as you can.
> (Soapbox mode OFF)
>
> Tim Ressel--Compliance Engineer
> Hewlett-Packard
> Verifone Division
> 916-630-2541
> tim_r1 at verifone.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Clark [mailto:clark at andrews.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 9:36 AM
> To: Synth-DIY
> Subject: Re: FW: Texas Instruments IC's
>
>    Of course there's always MOSFETs...maybe someone has a direct drop in
> replacement for a 466?  I'd love to know!
>
>    Tony
>
> ------------------------------------,----------------------------------
> I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
> ------------------------------------|
> Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
> http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
> ------------------------------------'----------------------------------




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed May 31 02:59:58 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:59:58 -0400
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <SIMEON.10005301518.F@tmg04.cancerboard.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <3934640E.72CBEC7B@prodigy.net>

<blonde mode on>

Mount the speakers on some ball screw actuators, and "pan" them up and
down...

<blonde mode off>

Oops... sorry, couldn't resist.... (lol)

H^) harry

Doug Tymofichuk wrote:

> On Tue, 30 May 2000 15:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Paul Wilkinson
> <synthdiy at mail.com> wrote:
>
> > When I talk about 3D sound I really mean 2D.  And 2D is
> > enough for me.  Does "true 3D" mean you can fade vertically
> > as well?
> >
> > Come to think of it, being able to fade vertically as well
> > (and make that 3 active processors) would be pretty cool.
> >
> > Damn it I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight.  Yes I'm
> > interested.
> >
> > - Paul
> >
> How in the world does one move a sound vertically? I know
> that a decent stereo system can project sounds that way,
> but what is the trick to doing it manually? Some kind of
> phase shift? This sounds like a lot of fun, especially if
> it can be done all analogue.
>
> ----------------------
> Doug Tymofichuk
> dougt at cancerboard.ab.ca




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed May 31 03:05:16 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:05:16 -0400
Subject: Texas Instruments IC's
References: <1.5.4.32.20000530083619.00ed27dc@popa.melbpc.org.au> <20000530192928.13835.qmail@hotmail.com> <39342E65.7AC91E09@silcom.com> <20000530232958.48058.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3934654C.9F5A5CD2@prodigy.net>

I'd toss in a roll of solder wick (braid) in small or medium (both?) width.
Sometimes that
Soldapult will let you down... I use the braid MUCH more than the Soldapult...

OTOH I have the old "non-safe" unit with the exposed plunger... Pop yourself
right in the face if you aren't careful...  (or goose the spouse with it - )

H^) harry

Jon Parker wrote:

> >     LM3046 is the National Semiconductor part number for the RCA CA3046
> (now
> > made by intersil).  There are lots of good places to get this part (one of
> my
> > favorites).  I got mine from JDR (http://www.jdr.com), or you can get them
> from
> > Jameco (http://www.jameco.com), or digikey (http://www.digikey.com), and
> many
> > others.  Best of all, they are cheap ($0.40->0.50 range).  As far as I
> know TI
> > never made this part.
> >
> >     I have a list of useful parts and where to get them at
> > http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/usefulparts/usefull.html
>
> Jim and others,
> This is all good information.  Now I can't believe I payed $4 for the ECG
> equivelent (especially when a lot of my diy budget comes from my loose
> change at the end of the day.)
>
> On another note, I recently bought a Edsyn 951SX soldering station (quite an
> upgrade from my cheap butane RS wannabe) and an Edsyn solderpullt
> soldersucker.  Things I never knew I NEEDED till I got on this list back in
> January.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Jon Parker
> Jazz Pianist
> Denver CO USA
> --




From JWBarlow at aol.com  Wed May 31 03:13:28 2000
From: JWBarlow at aol.com (JWBarlow at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:13:28 EDT
Subject: Pomona distributor?
Message-ID: <ea.5f33266.2665c138@aol.com>


I have two sources (neither of which I've used for a couple of years).

1) Techni-Tool has ITT-Pomona banana patch cables in a variety of lengths 
from 12" to 60" in a variety of colors. As serendipity goes I was just asking 
them about these and claws since I couldn't find them in their online search, 
and my catalog is old. Here's what they said: 

In a message dated 5/30/2000 11:28:55 AM, sales at techni-tool.com writes:

>John,

>Yes we do carry both items.  The colors available for the banana patch
>cords
>are:  black, red, white, grey, violet, blue, yellow, orange, brown and
>green.  Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you.
> A
>catalog will be mailed out to you.  Thanks!

>Best Regards,

>Jenn Graham
>(800) 832-4866

No price of course! This might not help you either:

http://www.techni-tool.com

Might as well call.


2) Jensen which has "good" prices (not like Steve Curtin's $1 each, however!) 
for multi colored cable sets (ITT-Pomona) with a claw. For $99 I got 28 
cables (4 each of 7 lengths). I don't know what the current prices are, or if 
they show up online but the stock number I used was 136-588.

http://www.jensentools.com

I've got to check Steven C's source!
John B.


In a message dated 5/30/2000 12:50:44 PM, patchell at silcom.com writes:

>Paul Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> Anybody have a favorite Pomona distributor?  I need to get some banana
>> cables and jacks.  Somewhere cheap with lotsa colours would be great.
>>
>> - Paul
>>
>
>    I have another question to add to this.  Pomona makes stackable banana
>patch cables.  I could have sworn that these came in lots of colors (blue,
>red, green, black, etc),




From clark at andrews.edu  Wed May 31 03:38:33 2000
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:38:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: FW: Texas Instruments IC's
In-Reply-To: <393461C0.5349965@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000530212804.26751A-100000@edmund.cs.andrews.edu>

> The "discharge path" should be a short loop, you are dumping the cap across
> itself... OTOH that will make a major league magnetic pulse. Keeping 
> other stuff away will be good... and minimising the stray inductance 
> will help speed things along...
 
   Um, in the case of the ASM-1 style VCO, the cap is being discharged 
into the op-amp's input which is more or less virtual ground.  Who knows 
what is going on when it has to sink the current but I doubt that any 
sort of grounding plan will help any.

> I don't think the star ground will play for the discharge reason, but it is
> Really GOOD practice anyway...

   Right...
 
> Please update my thinking if I've got the discharge path wrong...

   No, right discharge path!  I would think that possibly any input 
offset voltage might be seen on the output, but in the case of most 
op-amps it'll be pretty neglibile!
   Am I off?  It's been too long since I had op-amp theory!

   Tony

------------------------------------,----------------------------------
I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
------------------------------------|  
Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
------------------------------------'----------------------------------




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed May 31 04:11:43 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:11:43 +1000
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000531021143.00ec4b10@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 12:31 PM 30/05/00 -0700, a guilty party wrote:
 I have even in the past just done routing.  I
>get the board, with all the parts placed and netlist loaded, start up the
>router, wait five minutes, write out a bill for $500, and return it the next
>day.  I wish I could make that kind of money all the time. :^)
>
A complete prick did this to me once (before I knew anything about noise,
grounding, EMC etc) and of course the unit was unuseable.
Sure, you can get away with autorouting for slow digital or high level
audio. Not for analog synths, though.

paul 'sadder, poorer, wiser' perry Melbourne Australia 




From tpaddock at seanet.com  Wed May 31 04:25:12 2000
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:25:12 -0700
Subject: Audio links
Message-ID: <01BFCA6C.E869F4C0@dialup-209.245.167.93.Seattle1.Level3.net>

http://www.wssh.net/~wattsup/arsl.html

Audio links. More links than I've ever seen on one 
single verrrrrrrrrrry looooooong page. 
Not synth specific, but some interesting stuff.

 - -- - Toby Paddock




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed May 31 06:01:12 2000
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 00:01:12 -0400
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <1.5.4.32.20000531021143.00ec4b10@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <39348E87.F73B721E@prodigy.net>

This has always been my bitch with contract engineering... The layout people are
"rushed" to get the job done fast... and quality suffers.  I know that a certain
run will bite me in the
@ss, and I know I will be the one to suffer in the field, trying to "cover up" a
layout error.

Fact I've made a career out of it.  :^)

H^) harry

Paul Perry wrote:

> At 12:31 PM 30/05/00 -0700, a guilty party wrote:
>  I have even in the past just done routing.  I
> >get the board, with all the parts placed and netlist loaded, start up the
> >router, wait five minutes, write out a bill for $500, and return it the next
> >day.  I wish I could make that kind of money all the time. :^)
> >
> A complete prick did this to me once (before I knew anything about noise,
> grounding, EMC etc) and of course the unit was unuseable.
> Sure, you can get away with autorouting for slow digital or high level
> audio. Not for analog synths, though.
>
> paul 'sadder, poorer, wiser' perry Melbourne Australia




From synth1 at airmail.net  Wed May 31 07:34:47 2000
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 00:34:47 -0500
Subject: New MOTM Demos
Message-ID: <000d01bfcac1$ef5fe000$0100007f@localhost>

New MP3 demos of using the MOTM modules as stand-alone audio processors can
be
found at:

www.synthtech.com/news

Paul Schreiber
Synthesis Technology





From IXQY at aol.com  Wed May 31 07:40:47 2000
From: IXQY at aol.com (IXQY at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 01:40:47 EDT
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <aa.5bda112.2665ffdf@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/30/00 7:12:57 PM Central Daylight Time, 
synthdiy at mail.com writes:

> 3D position is simulated using phase (which is really delay) and filters
>  that simulate what your head and ears do to sound coming from behind you
>  (head related transfer functions, or HRTF's).
>  
>  The problem in a nutshell is this:  Something on your right is heard with
>  both ears.  So any simulation has to play it out of both speakers.  But 
then
>  you hear both speakers out of both ears, so you have 4 signals at work.

 
 Speaking of speakers (and "accurate" sound source positioning)...

 In my teens I had an idea of a single flat panel speaker that would hang 
across the full width of your "listening" wall. This speaker would replace a 
matched stereo pair of speakers and would be able to have sounds emanate from 
any point/points across it's surface. 

 I would think that this would allow incredible imaging possiblities, as the 
sound would be truer to the single point source of  "real-life" acoustics.

 Heck if I know how this would be designed into a working unit though!

 Andrew Sanchez





From IXQY at aol.com  Wed May 31 07:58:26 2000
From: IXQY at aol.com (IXQY at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 01:58:26 EDT
Subject: Optrex LCD up for grabs (no backlight)
Message-ID: <c0.459def9.26660402@aol.com>


 Hello all,
 I just replaced a 16 x 2 character LCD in my Yamaha Rev 7 reverb. The old 
unit's backlight had gone out which made the display hard to read.

 If anyone would like the old display, just let me know. It's works fine 
other than the non-working backlight.

 The part number is: Optrex DMC-16207 UL
 Digikey item # is DMC-16207N-EB

 Thanks,
  Andrew Sanchez



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed May 31 09:22:43 2000
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:22:43 +0200
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <1.5.4.32.20000531021143.00ec4b10@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <001301bfcad1$03408980$0400a8c0@Theo>

Sounds like you exspect the auto router to do it all on its own.
I like to use it more as an interactive tool.
Power stucture routed by hand.
Then auto route seclected parts, like busses or all short nets from one IC.
In some cases the auto routed traces need editing and sometimes the router
doesn't see the obvious solution.
Some times it may help if you make things easier for the auto router, eg
pushing a trace to the other side to make some room.
This way auto routing realy speeds up board disign, I like it.

Cheers Theo


----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


> At 12:31 PM 30/05/00 -0700, a guilty party wrote:
>  I have even in the past just done routing.  I
> >get the board, with all the parts placed and netlist loaded, start up the
> >router, wait five minutes, write out a bill for $500, and return it the
next
> >day.  I wish I could make that kind of money all the time. :^)
> >
> A complete prick did this to me once (before I knew anything about noise,
> grounding, EMC etc) and of course the unit was unuseable.
> Sure, you can get away with autorouting for slow digital or high level
> audio. Not for analog synths, though.
>
> paul 'sadder, poorer, wiser' perry Melbourne Australia
>




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed May 31 10:48:41 2000
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:48:41 +1000
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000531084841.00eeee58@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 09:22 AM 31/05/00 +0200, "Theo" <t.hogers wrote:
>Sounds like you exspect the auto router to do it all on its own.
>I like to use it more as an interactive tool.

Well, I agree entirely on this last.
My point was, that it is a bit rude for an (alleged) EE to charge
$$$ without doing anything but autoroute. And yes, it was protel ;-)

The other problem with a fully autorouted solution is that since 
the traces aren't  laid out the way you would expect, troubleshooting
is a complete bitch.

paul perry melbourne australia




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Wed May 31 11:18:05 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:18:05 +0100
Subject: Envelope gen operation
References: <1.5.4.32.20000531001025.012fd098@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <00bc01bfcae2$dc7f1980$fecf883e@default>

Hi all,

Byron >I've got an old EG design that's something like that. It's really
a coupled AD generator, with a parallel AR generator, both driven from
the same gate.  The outputs are summed together to make the ADSR shape,
and the attack pot is a dual-ganged one.


Me too...

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/eg.htm

And you can read about why I think this is better than a single ADSR in
a modular system.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm











From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Wed May 31 11:23:02 2000
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:23:02 +0100
Subject: 3-D module
References: <3.0.5.32.20000531005801.00959d00@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <00bd01bfcae2$ddd66c20$fecf883e@default>

Rene >One is a stupid game where you shoot boulders in space...

Asteroids? I used to think that game was the greatest thing ever. I
still have a version on my Atari which I play from time to time.

Regards,

Tony... who this week has been mostly changing nappies




From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed May 31 13:28:06 2000
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:28:06 +0100 (BST)
Subject: OLD HP GEAR FREE TO GOOD HOME
Message-ID: <20000531112806.21450.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com>

I've got a stack of old HP gear that I'm getting rid
of soon. Spectrum Analyser, RF Gen, alsorts. Also
older
valve/transistor HP gear. If you want this stuff, you
pay for collection and transport. It all weighs a hell
of a lot, so it would probably have to go to someone
in the UK, where I live. Let me know

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie



From prospective_volition at hotmail.com  Wed May 31 14:38:44 2000
From: prospective_volition at hotmail.com (vol)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 00:38:44 +1200
Subject: minimodular
Message-ID: <20000531124245.48451.qmail@hotmail.com>

Would it be completely stupid to attempt builing a minimodular witout a scope?
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From clark at andrews.edu  Wed May 31 15:38:09 2000
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:38:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: minimodular
In-Reply-To: <20000531124245.48451.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000531093613.11418A-100000@edmund.cs.andrews.edu>

> Would it be completely stupid to attempt builing a minimodular witout a =
> scope?

   No, not at all.  Most people don't have scopes.  However, you MUST 
have some sort of DMM nearby at all times!  It certainly is nice to have 
a scope when you are building because it makes troubleshooting ten times 
easier!  However, most of the problems you'll likely encounter will only 
require a multi-meter.

   Tony

------------------------------------,----------------------------------
I can't drive (my Moog) 55!         |     The E-Music DIY Archive
------------------------------------|  
Tony Clark -- clark at andrews.edu     | aupe.phys.andrews.edu/diy_archive
http://aupe.phys.andrews.edu/~clark |     Contributions welcomed!
------------------------------------'----------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Wed May 31 16:10:30 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 07:10:30 -0700
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <1.5.4.32.20000531084841.00eeee58@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <39351D56.D2BB0DE8@silcom.com>



Paul Perry wrote:

> At 09:22 AM 31/05/00 +0200, "Theo" <t.hogers wrote:
> >Sounds like you exspect the auto router to do it all on its own.
> >I like to use it more as an interactive tool.
>
> Well, I agree entirely on this last.
> My point was, that it is a bit rude for an (alleged) EE to charge
> $$$ without doing anything but autoroute. And yes, it was protel ;-)

>
> The other problem with a fully autorouted solution is that since
> the traces aren't  laid out the way you would expect, troubleshooting
> is a complete bitch.
>

    I would have to disagree.  I have found it no more difficult to debug
autorouted boards as opposed to boards that were hand routed by somebody
else.  In fact, I prefer the autorouted boards.  Since they were done to
the netlist generated by the schematic, I have found that in 100% of all
cases that the board matches the schematic 100%.  In my 15 years of
experience, mistakes on the board are always traceable back to the
schematic.  Verifying the schematic is probably one of the most difficult
things to do.  Although, this does get back to autorouting vs hand
routing....when I do hand route, I find it easier to locate errors in the
schematic. :^)

    Even when I hand route, (presently I use Protel For Windows 2.7), I
use the manual router as this assures greater accuracy and faster hand
routing.

    Also, someone here said something about autorouters being suitable
for only low speed boards.  Take a look inside your PC.  It was probably
autorouted.  I used the Coopy and Chyan Specctra router once, it has
modules that will do routing based on cross talk and time delay specs.
For doing high speed boards, routers like this are probably only option.

>
> paul perry melbourne australia

    -Jim





From chordman at flash.net  Wed May 31 15:08:24 2000
From: chordman at flash.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:08:24
Subject: Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <200005312212.RAA00269@chupacabras.flash.net>

Hmm.  Flame speakers, anyone?  Played with them in highschool.
Pretty hot after awhile.

psnow at magma.ca wrote:
>Hi Andrew,
>
>I remember many years ago, Sinclair (of the ZX81 computer fame)
>producted a "flat" loudspeaker.  It appeared to be some kind of driver
>attached to a flat styrofoam slab about 1ft square. I only heard a pair
>of them once and they certainly lacked bass response.  However multiple
>units something along those lines stuck together may be suitable for
>your idea.  I guess a lot depneds on what that "driver" was.  Anyone
>else remember those Sinclair speakers?  Anyone know how they worked? 
>
>Also, how about electrostatic speaker technology?  I believe they work
>by exciting ionized air in a metalic grill (sorry, very simple
>explanation of something I don't really understand!).  Seems to me you
>could build a large version of this and drive portions of it both
>horizontally and vertically from different sources to get the spatial
>effect. 
>Any takers?  I can supply a roll of chicken wire to get you started
>:)!   
>
>Cheers,
>
>Peter
>
>
>IXQY at aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  Speaking of speakers (and "accurate" sound source positioning)...
>> 
>>  In my teens I had an idea of a single flat panel speaker that would hang
>> across the full width of your "listening" wall. This speaker would replace a
>> matched stereo pair of speakers and would be able to have sounds emanate from
>> any point/points across it's surface.
>> 
>>  I would think that this would allow incredible imaging possiblities, as the
>> sound would be truer to the single point source of  "real-life" acoustics.
>> 
>>  Heck if I know how this would be designed into a working unit though!
>> 
>>  Andrew Sanchez
>

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- Linux Rex, Linux Vobiscum  |  RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
-- The 21st century does NOT start in the year 2000!!!





From robb_canada at hotmail.com  Wed May 31 18:18:01 2000
From: robb_canada at hotmail.com (lil' robbie)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:18:01 EDT
Subject: new to list
Message-ID: <20000531161801.38361.qmail@hotmail.com>

hey everyone out there....i am happy to be a new member of the list...i dont 
know shit about electronics but i have a friend who is going to build stuff 
for me...

..anyways..i was wondering if anyone out there could point me in the 
direction of any schematics for things like filters(main concern) as well as 
analog sequencers which i would also like...

..cheers..
lil' robbie
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From grichter at execpc.com  Wed May 31 18:19:29 2000
From: grichter at execpc.com (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:19:29 -0500
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
Message-ID: <200005311619.LAA24475@mailgw01.execpc.com>

> I used the Coopy and Chyan Specctra router once, it has
> modules that will do routing based on cross talk and time delay specs.
> For doing high speed boards, routers like this are probably only option.

Last I heard that router cost US $12,000



From macdonald at evenfall.com  Wed May 31 18:26:01 2000
From: macdonald at evenfall.com (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:26:01 -0700
Subject: minimodular
References: <20000531124245.48451.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <39353D19.E5EE61EC@evenfall.com>

The Mini Modular calibration instructions require only a DMM and a
chromatic tuner, a scope isn't needed.  Oscilloscopes are handy for
troubleshooting though, as Tony mentioned.

-Chris MacDonald


> vol wrote:
> 
> Would it be completely stupid to attempt builing a minimodular witout
> a scope?



From patchell at silcom.com  Wed May 31 18:46:25 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:46:25 -0700
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <200005311619.LAA24475@mailgw01.execpc.com>
Message-ID: <393541E1.D570FCB7@silcom.com>



Grant Richter wrote:

> > I used the Coopy and Chyan Specctra router once, it has
> > modules that will do routing based on cross talk and time delay specs.
> > For doing high speed boards, routers like this are probably only option.
>
> Last I heard that router cost US $12,000

    Last time I purchased one (or rather, the company I worked for) the base
price was about $4000, and that was for a severly handicaped router.  You can
add options onto that router (at that time) to easily get the price up to the
$30K and more range.  Not exactly something you would have in your home for
DIY.  There were good deals out there though.  The last router I purchased for
my own use was NueroRoute ($1000 for the full package), and in some aspects,
it out performed the Cooper & Chyan router.

    -Jim




From karlto at go.telia.no  Wed May 31 19:31:39 2000
From: karlto at go.telia.no (Karl Helmer Torvmark)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:31:39 +0200
Subject: SV: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <1.5.4.32.20000531021143.00ec4b10@popa.melbpc.org.au> <001301bfcad1$03408980$0400a8c0@Theo>
Message-ID: <00e701bfcb26$16b32c20$05d9ccc3@nykht>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
To: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>; Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


> Sounds like you exspect the auto router to do it all on its own.
> I like to use it more as an interactive tool.
> Power stucture routed by hand.
> Then auto route seclected parts, like busses or all short nets from one IC.
> In some cases the auto routed traces need editing and sometimes the router
> doesn't see the obvious solution.
> Some times it may help if you make things easier for the auto router, eg
> pushing a trace to the other side to make some room.
> This way auto routing realy speeds up board disign, I like it.

This is the way to do it. At work we have one guy who does all the routing.
On average, he does one board each week (In addition to keeping the IC
library of the CAD-system updated etc.) He'd never be able to do this
without using the autorouter. Of course, you need to have a decent
power layout with power planes etc. Most people I know of use four layers
or more, this helps alot (2-layer boards are the most difficult boards EMC-wise).

Complex digital boards would be impossible to route in practice without using an
autorouter (at least if you figure in the price of hiring the guy to do it if you're
making a board in small quantities). Even mixed analog/digital designs are handled
nicely by the autorouter - if you do your homework beforehand.

Of course, we don't use Protel. If you want a decent autorouter, you'll have to
buy a >$10.000 CAD package... So for DIY, manual routing is probably your only
bet.

---------
Karl H.




From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Wed May 31 20:01:13 2000
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:01:13 +0200
Subject: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?
References: <1.5.4.32.20000531084841.00eeee58@popa.melbpc.org.au> <39351D56.D2BB0DE8@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <39355369.B59C06@eunet.yu>

>     Even when I hand route, (presently I use Protel For Windows 2.7), I
> use the manual router as this assures greater accuracy and faster hand
> routing.

I use V2.5 Protel for all manual stuff, and Microcad QCAD for routing,
it's dos but it's the best one I've tried (people told me nice things
about protel99 but never tried it) and it was developed by a bloke
from my faculty :)


marjan



From synth1 at airmail.net  Wed May 31 20:28:54 2000
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:28:54 -0500
Subject: Routers
References: <200005311619.LAA24475@mailgw01.execpc.com>
Message-ID: <004301bfcb2e$13f63560$0100007f@localhost>

The small one, with no fancy add-ons is about $4,000.

However, the next release of PCAD 2000 *includes* a full-tilt-boogie
shape-based router.

I have about $9,000 invested in my SPECCTRA router, but I use it for digital
stuff. No MOTM
at all. I will say this: the last release (Version 9) routed a little 8051
board with about 400 individual
connections in 17 *SECONDS*. On a P400 w/384MB RAM.

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----
From: Grant Richter <grichter at execpc.com>
To: Jim Patchell <patchell at silcom.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at node12b53.a2000.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [EFM] Been quiet lately... too much DIY ?


> > I used the Coopy and Chyan Specctra router once, it has
> > modules that will do routing based on cross talk and time delay specs.
> > For doing high speed boards, routers like this are probably only option.
>
> Last I heard that router cost US $12,000




From patchell at silcom.com  Wed May 31 21:15:39 2000
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:15:39 -0700
Subject: new to list
References: <20000531161801.38361.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <393564DB.83896C37@silcom.com>

    I would start here:

http://www.xavax.com/efm/

    Tom has one of the larger collections of schematics.

    -Jim


lil' robbie wrote:

> hey everyone out there....i am happy to be a new member of the list...i dont
> know shit about electronics but i have a friend who is going to build stuff
> for me...
>
> ..anyways..i was wondering if anyone out there could point me in the
> direction of any schematics for things like filters(main concern) as well as
> analog sequencers which i would also like...
>
> ..cheers..
> lil' robbie
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From prospective_volition at hotmail.com  Wed May 31 23:23:06 2000
From: prospective_volition at hotmail.com (vol)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:23:06 +1200
Subject: re.minimodular
Message-ID: <20000531212722.37087.qmail@hotmail.com>

Well, thanks for your replies. Looks like I may have to attempt this. But first of all. Are they any good? I noticed they don't have a sine wave.
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From si04697 at salleURL.edu  Wed May 31 23:41:57 2000
From: si04697 at salleURL.edu (Carlos Vila Deutschbein)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 23:41:57 +0200
Subject: 3D Audio
In-Reply-To: <003601bfca93$acb4da40$0100007f@localhost>
Message-ID: <yam8186.2853.2008668272@smtp.iddeo.es>

Hello all !

> If you search JASA (Journal of the Acoustical Society of America) there
> are a bizillion articles.

Let me add my 2 cents to all this 3D Sound discussion.
I have read many articles and some books about 3D audio, recently I  even 
participated in an experiment a fellow student made about 3D positioning of
audio sources in an anechoic chamber. After all this investigations I
finally have come to one conclusion: Localizing an audio source in 3D space
is 20% /physiological/ parameters (i.e. how our ears work, involving HRTF,
Interaural Time/level Differences and other aspects) and 80% /cognition/
(i.e. what you know about the sound source) 
For example: If you are in the street and you hear the sound of an airplane,
your brain automatically puts the sound up in the sky skipping all those
physiological aspects. The sound *must* come from that direction. This
happens with most sound perception in real life and memory plays a decisive
role in this case (that wasn't the first airplane you had seen in your
life). 
And what happens when you don't know where a sound comes from: You move your
head around trying to catch the physical parameters of the sound because
you don't have any cognitive reference about it. It once took us 3 minutes
to find a ringing cell-phone in a full class-room!! 

That's the main problem when simulating 3D space. You can fool the ears but
you can't fool the brain.
In my opinion 3D audio simulation can only be associated with virtual
reality environments and only (arguably) with multi-channel systems (not
plain stereo)

PS: Don't wanted to discourage anyone, just tell my experiences :)


Regards
-- 
==================================================
Carlos Vila Deutschbein       si04697 at salleURL.edu
Enginyeria La Salle     www.salleURL.edu/~si04697/
-------------- Barcelona, Spain ------------------




