From prototek at optonline.net  Wed Aug  1 02:12:50 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:12:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIY Sequencer Schemos/Ideas?
Message-ID: <B78CC1C2.8018%prototek@optonline.net>

   Hi,

   I have two questions..... first, can anyone suggest a good analog
sequencer project? Maybe there's some schemos on the web for one? I'd
appreciate some guidance.
   Also, is there any source on the web or elsewhere to find old magazines
like Synapse, etc....?

                                       Thanks,
                                       Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From metamatic at webtv.net  Wed Aug  1 03:22:39 2001
From: metamatic at webtv.net (metamatic at webtv.net)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:22:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] NE532 Replacement Question
Message-ID: <27289-3B6759DF-4506@storefull-116.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

 Hello everyone,

 I'm in the middle of restoring my Octave-Plateau Cat SRM II, and it
looks like I need to replace IC2, an NE 532 dual opamp. Since this part
is long out of production, can anyone recommend a modern part as a
replacement?

 Thanks in advance,

 

Richard Hess

metamatic at webtv.net



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Wed Aug  1 04:15:51 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:15:51 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] donut wirewound thingies?
Message-ID: <36.1961f1fd.2898c057@aol.com>

I am salvaging parts from an old cell phone battery charger I found in the 
trash, and there are two round things that look like the wire wound 
electromagnet things but they are round like donuts, with the hole and all. I 
don't know what they are, or any possible applications, synth or otherwise.

also, there are a fair few capacitors there, small yellow ones (look like 
some polycarbonate one's I've bought.)  is there a resource to find out the 
value of these caps?  I know the 104 = 100nF type stuff, but this looks a bit 
different.  maybe some way with a scope?

I have to give the shout out of thanks to the electronic peasant, whose 
webpage made me aware of salvage as a source of parts. (thanks man!)

thanks

Ed







From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Aug  1 05:34:20 2001
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 03:34:20 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] donut wirewound thingies?
Message-ID: <3b6778bc.3bf2.0@telusplanet.net>

>I am salvaging parts from an old cell phone battery charger I found in the 

>trash, and there are two round things that look like the wire wound 
>electromagnet things but they are round like donuts, with the hole and all.
I 
>don't know what they are, or any possible applications, synth or otherwise.


These sound like torroidal coils. They can be useful for noise suppression on
power supply lines.

>also, there are a fair few capacitors there, small yellow ones (look like 

>some polycarbonate one's I've bought.)  is there a resource to find out the

>value of these caps?  I know the 104 = 100nF type stuff, but this looks a bit

>different.  maybe some way with a scope?

A lot of DMMs have capacitor measuring functions, even cheap ones nowadays.
Or you could DIY a circuit to connect to your DMM or your scope.

>I have to give the shout out of thanks to the electronic peasant, whose 
>webpage made me aware of salvage as a source of parts. (thanks man!)
>
You're welcome! Good luck!

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Aug  1 06:31:20 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:31:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Paia 9700
References: <B78C6C33.34%fadeddata@softhome.net>
Message-ID: <3B678618.241C2B44@silcom.com>

    The 9700 seems to be pretty nice (I am still building mine...never
seems to be enough hours...), but, I am not too sure if it is a good
first kit or not.  It is a pretty big project...on the other hand, if
you aproach it as a one module at a time type project, it might be ok.

    I have never seen the FatMan, that seems to be pretty much accepted
as a first kit project.

Dustin Withers wrote:

> Hey what do you guys think of Paia 9700 series for a beginners first
> Modular?  Also how does it sound it comparison to other Modulars?
>
> -thx,
>     fadeddata

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From jlarryh at iquest.net  Wed Aug  1 07:13:15 2001
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:13:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Trying to remember that chip
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107310633420.14004-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net> <000b01c119cf$f4b4d160$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <000601c11a48$ac6a4e20$02492bd1@oemcomputer>

OK, I had this schematic.  It was based around a single chip.  There were a
couple of different versions of said chip.  Basically it was a multiple LED
driver based on an input voltage.  Seems like it had a pin where you could
select whether only one LED was lit, or all of the LEDs up to the measured
point.  I am thinking maybe it was available for linear measurement and then
a VU version.

But, alas, I cannot find it anywhere.  My brain has gone into total fade.
Does this chip ring a bell with anyone?  I am sure I put that somewhere good
for future reference.  However, I am reaching that age I have trouble
remember where I put stuff.  Sigh....  If I had a chip number, I guess I
could re-create my research.  I have seen someone here on the list mention
this chip before.

Thanks as always,
Larry Hendry



From J.Proveniers at orga.nl  Wed Aug  1 08:26:43 2001
From: J.Proveniers at orga.nl (Jeroen Proveniers)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:26:43 +0200 
Subject: [sdiy] Trying to remember that chip
Message-ID: <3BD1FCDB8D11D511BDEE00508BB9C35D0DAF4E@EXCHANGE_OBV>

You mean the LM3914 (linear), LM3915 (log) and LM3916 (VU). 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Larry Hendry [mailto:jlarryh at iquest.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 7:13 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Trying to remember that chip
> 
> 
> OK, I had this schematic.  It was based around a single chip. 
>  There were a
> couple of different versions of said chip.  Basically it was 
> a multiple LED
> driver based on an input voltage.  Seems like it had a pin 
> where you could
> select whether only one LED was lit, or all of the LEDs up to 
> the measured
> point.  I am thinking maybe it was available for linear 
> measurement and then
> a VU version.
> 
> But, alas, I cannot find it anywhere.  My brain has gone into 
> total fade.
> Does this chip ring a bell with anyone?  I am sure I put that 
> somewhere good
> for future reference.  However, I am reaching that age I have trouble
> remember where I put stuff.  Sigh....  If I had a chip 
> number, I guess I
> could re-create my research.  I have seen someone here on the 
> list mention
> this chip before.
> 
> Thanks as always,
> Larry Hendry
> 


From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Wed Aug  1 08:46:00 2001
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:46:00 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Trying to remember that chip
Message-ID: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C7838@hati.kapsch.co.at>

>OK, I had this schematic.  It was based around a single chip.  There
were a
>couple of different versions of said chip.  Basically it was a multiple
LED
>driver based on an input voltage.  Seems like it had a pin where you
could
>select whether only one LED was lit, or all of the LEDs up to the
measured
>point.  I am thinking maybe it was available for linear measurement and
then
>a VU version.
>
>But, alas, I cannot find it anywhere.  My brain has gone into total
fade.
>Does this chip ring a bell with anyone?  I am sure I put that somewhere
good
>for future reference.  However, I am reaching that age I have trouble
>remember where I put stuff.  Sigh....  If I had a chip number, I guess
I
>could re-create my research.  I have seen someone here on the list
mention
>this chip before.

You mean the LM3914 LM3915 chips from National I think.
You are right there is a linear (I think the LM3914) and the logarithmic
(LM3915).

Forget the UAA 170 and UAA180 chips... they are old and don't work
nice...

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: www.ullrich.at.tt , http://come.to/ullrich
                   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
   .oooO           Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   (   )   Oooo.   KAPSCH AG / ECCN Control Systems    Vienna / Austria
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/



From buchi at takeonetech.de  Wed Aug  1 09:45:02 2001
From: buchi at takeonetech.de (Michael Buchstaller)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:45:02 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Paia MIDI Fader
In-Reply-To: <004901c119fa$eccc1280$0e2287d9@default>
References: <200107311820.NAA00572@celadon.propagation.net> <004901c119fa$eccc1280$0e2287d9@default>
Message-ID: <gpcfmtkbrh4q4a043n118oe8ude38kd3p8@4ax.com>

>Now someone told me that aftertouch is 14 bits but it is rarely
>implemented that way by the controller. Cost I guess. Shame.

Oh.... i thought the only 14-bits parameter would have been the
pitch-bend.


-Michael Buchstaller


From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Wed Aug  1 10:16:11 2001
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:16:11 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Paia MIDI Fader / Zipper noise
Message-ID: <3B67BACB.6D133B4C@consol.de>

Hi Tony 

> Now someone told me that aftertouch is 14 bits but it is rarely
> implemented that way by the controller. Cost I guess. Shame.
Pichbend is 14Bit

btw: I own a Hoef 16 channel MIDI controlled VCA. Hoef (Austrian Manufacturer of
upperclass Studioequipment) implemented something like autoglide. If there are
jumps in the valuechanges, the cv jumps also; if the data are increasing slowly,
a slewlimiter is activated on the cv. I do not know whether Hoef uses a analog
slew limiter or whether he does interpolation in the uP. Nevertheless fine gear:
plug in and don't care anymore.

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de


From fadeddata at softhome.net  Wed Aug  1 11:09:29 2001
From: fadeddata at softhome.net (Dustin Withers)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:09:29 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Paia 9700
In-Reply-To: <3B678618.241C2B44@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <B78D2369.48%fadeddata@softhome.net>

Actually I've built the FatMan and was not to impressed with the sound and
was wondering if this was true for all Paia kits.

-dustin
on 7/31/01 10:31 PM, patchell at patchell at silcom.com wrote:

> The 9700 seems to be pretty nice (I am still building mine...never
> seems to be enough hours...), but, I am not too sure if it is a good
> first kit or not.  It is a pretty big project...on the other hand, if
> you aproach it as a one module at a time type project, it might be ok.
> 
> I have never seen the FatMan, that seems to be pretty much accepted
> as a first kit project.
> 
> Dustin Withers wrote:
> 
>> Hey what do you guys think of Paia 9700 series for a beginners first
>> Modular?  Also how does it sound it comparison to other Modulars?
>> 
>> -thx,
>> fadeddata
> 
> --
> -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> 



From krhen at stucki.com  Wed Aug  1 13:01:57 2001
From: krhen at stucki.com (Rhen, Kris)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:01:57 -0400 
Subject: [sdiy] Paia MIDI Fader
Message-ID: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A31919F60@stu-nt1.stucki.com>

Poly aftertouch is not - it requires a NOTE byte as the second, then a
value.  By spec, Channel aftertouch is NOT 14-bits.  Its a 2-byte message,
though the third could be used for a MSB/LSB config I suppose but it isn't
spec'd that way I believe.

http://www.harmony-central.com/MIDI/Doc/table1.html
http://www.harmony-central.com/MIDI/Doc/table4.html

Technically MOST MIDI CCs are 14-bits if you use the LSB and MSB
configuration (part of the spec) but yes, few synths really do it.  Many
synths implement pitch bend with only recognition of the MSB also.

http://www.harmony-central.com/MIDI/Doc/table3.html

KRIS

> -----Original Message-----
> > Now someone told me that aftertouch is 14 bits but it is rarely
> > implemented that way by the controller. Cost I guess. Shame.
> 
> Oh.... i thought the only 14-bits parameter would have been the
> pitch-bend.


**********************************************************************
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From colinf at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug  1 13:36:04 2001
From: colinf at ntlworld.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:36:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Mystery object ???
Message-ID: <000201c11a7e$262142c0$c5a0ff3e@zen>

Cleaning out a recently deceased relative's flat, we came across a strange
electronic device.
Photos at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/b.johnstone/mystery.htm

I have absolutely no idea what it is, and my damn curiosity is killing me...

Anyone know what it might be ?
It contains a single transistor, 2 resistors, a cap, what looks like a light
sensor - all embedded in clear plastic, with some sort of connector
underneath, and a suction cup.
It came in a little jewellery type case, made for it.

???

Colin f



From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 13:52:04 2001
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:52:04 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Mystery object ???
In-Reply-To: <000201c11a7e$262142c0$c5a0ff3e@zen>
Message-ID: <20010801115204.70661.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, Colin, your 'mystery object' is a 'slave'/remote
camera flash adaptor. When the 'main' flash goes off,
another flash plugged into this gizmo will fire too,
hence the transparent casing and internal photocell...
regards to all, Ken

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie


From jdec at mindspring.com  Wed Aug  1 15:04:15 2001
From: jdec at mindspring.com (BrightBoy)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:04:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Dog Days Of Summer Book Sale
Message-ID: <3B67FE4F.49833BD8@mindspring.com>

Hey Gang,

It's time for a VERY long overdue book sale.  This time around I've
made my list a little fancier by posting it in HTML (which was very
time consuming using Notepad, but at least now I know HTML a lot 
better)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: Please respond in *PRIVATE* email (jdec at mindspring.com)
if you're interested in purchasing any of these books.  

DO NOT SEND REPLIES TO THE LIST!!!!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Here's a QUICK OVERVIEW of all the books for sale:

http://www.mindspring.com/~jdec/book/

Here's the DETAILED list complete with descriptions & prices:
 
http://www.mindspring.com/~jdec/book/booksale.html

As always, payment must be made in advance with a US POSTAL MONEY
ORDER.  I may accept PayPal payments but you need to have at least 
VERIFIED MEMBER status with a CONFIRMED SHIPPING ADDRESS for me to
consider....

DO NOT SEND ANY PAYMENTS UNTIL I'VE SENT EMAIL NOTIFICATION!!!!

Cheers,

Jeff R. Dec

P.S. If you are interested in trading for any of the books listed, 
here's a list of stuff that I'm looking for:

* FORMALIZED MUSIC by Iannis Xenakis (Hardcover, DJ, must be MINT)
* E-mu Morpheus RAM Card (must be original, no 3rd party/generics)
* Roland PG-200 Programmer w/ Case, Cable, & Manual (must be MINT/NOS)
* Fairlight II Sound Library Sampling CD (must be original, no CDR's)
* Klaus Schulze Sampling CD by Masterbits (original, no CDR's)


From mle at nic.fi  Wed Aug  1 15:10:16 2001
From: mle at nic.fi (Matti E. Leino)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:10:16 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe synth-diy
Message-ID: <3B67FFB8.7870493@nic.fi>

unsubscribe synth-diy



From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 15:24:28 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:24:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] theremin fans
Message-ID: <E15Rw2N-0007sb-0U@anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net>

As far as i know ther are a few theremin fans on list, and a friend sent me
this-thought you may be interested:

........................................

Tues 7th August, 7:30pm
Horse Hospital, London.

Demonstration: Tony Bassett
aka Mr Theremin

Eccentric London based inventor Tony Bassett runs Number One Electronics and
has been creating Theremins and other pieces of exotic electronica since
1962. Tony will talk about his work, demonstrate how to create a theremin
from scratch and for a finale turn one of the audience members into a human
Theremin and play a tune on them!

Performance:
Musician Miss Hypnotique will perform a eclectic set including Rachmaninoff
and the Star Trek theme tune on a traditional Theremin.

Screening: Theremin -
An Electronic Odyssey
By Steven M Martin

A documentary about the amazing life of Leon Theremin, inventor of the
theremin, the electronic musical instrument so beloved of 50s sci-fi movie
music. Theremin amazed America with his instrument until his kidnapping by
Soviet agents in the mid-30s. Upon his release from a labor camp, he worked
on surveillance devices for the KGB. Almost 60 years later , he is brought
back to America for a touching reunion with his friends and colleagues.

Performance:
The Evening will culminate with a performance by Bruce Woolley and The Radio
Science Orchestra - who have previously collaborated with Lydia Kavina, the
world's leading Thereminvox player and great niece of Leo Theremin. Before
conceiving The Radio Science Orchestra Bruce's writing credits include Video
Killed the Radio Star for Buggles and Grace Jones' Slave to the Rhythm.
Using amongst others a Theremin, Moogs and a midi Theremin they will perform
a set specially put together for the event featuring 50s sci-fi soundtracks,
original compositions and a tribute to Delia Derbyshire from the BBC
Radiophonic Workshop who had been invited to speak at the event but died on
3rd July 2001.


COME EARLY
DOORS 7.30
?6 / ?5 MEMBERS / CONCS
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From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Aug  1 16:49:27 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 07:49:27 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Paia 9700
References: <B78D2369.48%fadeddata@softhome.net>
Message-ID: <3B6816F6.830D4EF8@silcom.com>

    Each synth design will have it's own sound...since I haven't finished mine
yet, I can't comment.  However, just on the fact that the 9700 is pretty
flexible, you will have a lot of posibilities.  Plus, being modular, you can
add more/different modules.  The filter is the most important one for
affecting the way the thing will sound.  Maybe I should get around to
finishing mine...and finishing the MiniModular...the BassAce...my
SMB....dang...too many projects!

    And if you completed the fatman, you should be able to build 9700...

Dustin Withers wrote:

> Actually I've built the FatMan and was not to impressed with the sound and
> was wondering if this was true for all Paia kits.
>
> -dustin
> on 7/31/01 10:31 PM, patchell at patchell at silcom.com wrote:
>
> > The 9700 seems to be pretty nice (I am still building mine...never
> > seems to be enough hours...), but, I am not too sure if it is a good
> > first kit or not.  It is a pretty big project...on the other hand, if
> > you aproach it as a one module at a time type project, it might be ok.
> >
> > I have never seen the FatMan, that seems to be pretty much accepted
> > as a first kit project.
> >
> > Dustin Withers wrote:
> >
> >> Hey what do you guys think of Paia 9700 series for a beginners first
> >> Modular?  Also how does it sound it comparison to other Modulars?
> >>
> >> -thx,
> >> fadeddata
> >
> > --
> > -Jim
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> > *-----------------------------------------------
> > *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> > * -Yogi Yorgensen
> > ------------------------------------------------
> >
> >

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  1 17:10:45 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:10:45 +0000
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Trying to remember that chip
Message-ID: <F120wHc9ny7BXx4XFKp0000ce55@hotmail.com>

There was also a LM3916 with VU response

H^) harry


>From: "Ullrich Peter" <Ullrich at kapsch.net>
>To: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh at iquest.net>, <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: AW: [sdiy] Trying to remember that chip
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:46:00 +0200
>
> >OK, I had this schematic.  It was based around a single chip.  There
>were a
> >couple of different versions of said chip.  Basically it was a multiple
>LED
> >driver based on an input voltage.  Seems like it had a pin where you
>could
> >select whether only one LED was lit, or all of the LEDs up to the
>measured
> >point.  I am thinking maybe it was available for linear measurement and
>then
> >a VU version.
> >
> >But, alas, I cannot find it anywhere.  My brain has gone into total
>fade.
> >Does this chip ring a bell with anyone?  I am sure I put that somewhere
>good
> >for future reference.  However, I am reaching that age I have trouble
> >remember where I put stuff.  Sigh....  If I had a chip number, I guess
>I
> >could re-create my research.  I have seen someone here on the list
>mention
> >this chip before.
>
>You mean the LM3914 LM3915 chips from National I think.
>You are right there is a linear (I think the LM3914) and the logarithmic
>(LM3915).
>
>Forget the UAA 170 and UAA180 chips... they are old and don't work
>nice...
>
>Ciao
>Peter
>
>         \|/
>        (o o)
>--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
>                    Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
>                    Homepage: www.ullrich.at.tt , http://come.to/ullrich
>                    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
>    .oooO           Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
>    (   )   Oooo.   KAPSCH AG / ECCN Control Systems    Vienna / Austria
>----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
>      \_)    ) /
>            (_/
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From richardbrooks at kdbanglia.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 19:39:53 2001
From: richardbrooks at kdbanglia.freeserve.co.uk (Richard Brooks)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:39:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Knob reversal question asked some time ago.
Message-ID: <000301c2958a$3ccba640$d3d0193e@richardb>

I can't find the question in my archive about the knob rotation reversal but
I came up with what might be the answer whilst strolling along the road, as
you do!

Save a backup of the knob you want to change.

1. Load the knob skin into a paint package and flip it horizontally
2. Save it!

You might have to change the mask if your knob is a pointer or something
different.


Richard.


----
>From the De Havilland Gazette.

"One thing about this company - we carry hardly any
passengers, even in our aeroplanes."




From thom_s4 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  1 21:33:59 2001
From: thom_s4 at hotmail.com (Scott Deyo)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:33:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Paia 9700
Message-ID: <F177voFOAmEaJswFCHO0000d35d@hotmail.com>


I've built the 9700, and I like it. It's great for its price -- two VCO's 
and a modulator for ~$120! That's insane. I used them w/ Blacets at a show, 
and they were great.

If you have more money, I think the MOTM's are much easier to build -- less 
panel wiring, which is the biggest butt-chafer for me. Also, the board parts 
are quite spaced apart (which makes soldering very easy) and the kits come 
w/ solder and precut/ stripped/ tinned wire (!). I had a working module 
(VCA/Ring mod) in two hours, and I haven't been doing this for long. Sorry 
to sound like I'm on the payroll, but it made building very very fun! And 
really, they're not that expensive, considering the quality of the 
components. Built like tanks!

You can check out sound samples on both their websites too.

My two cents,
Scott

----Original Message Follows----
From: patchell <patchell at silcom.com>
To: Dustin Withers <fadeddata at softhome.net>
CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Paia 9700
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:31:20 -0700

     The 9700 seems to be pretty nice (I am still building mine...never
seems to be enough hours...), but, I am not too sure if it is a good
first kit or not.  It is a pretty big project...on the other hand, if
you aproach it as a one module at a time type project, it might be ok.

     I have never seen the FatMan, that seems to be pretty much accepted
as a first kit project.

Dustin Withers wrote:

 > Hey what do you guys think of Paia 9700 series for a beginners first
 > Modular?  Also how does it sound it comparison to other Modulars?
 >
 > -thx,
 >     fadeddata

--
  -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From hess at surrealistic.net  Thu Aug  2 00:10:35 2001
From: hess at surrealistic.net (hess)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] buggy efm seq2
Message-ID: <20010801150734.V23566-100000@devil.technoendo.net>

Hey,

So, I finally got my seq2 wired, but there are some problems.

Anyone here have experience in building/debugging this thing?

Here are the symptoms:

*when clock is off*
1) reps function does not work, it seems that the clk input to the 4017
does not cause the counter to count.

2) step button causes steps to be skipped.  The pushbutton is debounced
with a capacitor, but it seems that it still causes multiple triggering.

3) pushing the step button sometimes cause the up/down function to be
triggered.  I have no idea how this is happening...

*when clock is on*
Things work fine.  Start/stop works (sometimes multiple triggers), up/down
works (sometimes multiple triggers).


These symptoms sound familiar to anyone?

Oh, and yes, I did cut away that one pad that was overlapping a trace.

Also, I guess it would be pertinent to ask where the EFM webpage and/or
mailing list went...  A hard thing to find on google, it seems...


Any help is appreciated,
Thanks!

-Hess




From keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk  Thu Aug  2 01:28:00 2001
From: keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk (Keith Winstanley)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 00:28 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] buggy efm seq2
Message-ID: <memo.664290@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <20010801150734.V23566-100000 at devil.technoendo.net>
> Hey,
> 
> So, I finally got my seq2 wired, but there are some problems.

Hi, took me a while too!

> Anyone here have experience in building/debugging this thing?

*gibber*


> Here are the symptoms:

> 2) step button causes steps to be skipped.  The pushbutton is debounced
> with a capacitor, but it seems that it still causes multiple triggering.

I cured this with a 0.01uF ceramic, you have to try a few different values


> These symptoms sound familiar to anyone?
> 
> Oh, and yes, I did cut away that one pad that was overlapping a trace.

I think there is an overlap on the pad next to Pin 1 of U6 4069 connecting it to pin 4-

maybe this is causing some of your other problems??

I also ended up having to change R46 & R41 to 10K to enable correct functionality,
I heard of no one else having this problem so I dont know what went on there??

I hope you are using blue LEDs?
:o)

> Also, I guess it would be pertinent to ask where the EFM webpage and/or
> mailing list went...  A hard thing to find on google, it seems...

Moved to yahoogroups, you will have to re sub
EFM_Synth at yahoogroups.com

Apparently the web page was totally lifted, and I think will be new and improved 
very soon?

>From list:
=======================================================
> Don't worry....EFM will be back bigger and better than ever.
> I'm not going anywhere. We are going to continue just as soon
> as I get my crap together. I know it's been several months now
> and there is still no apparent end in sight but I have been 
> working hard and will soon be ready to return to business as
> usual.
> 
> I have thrown out all the old stuff and started over..... again. I
> want the next series to be damm near perfect... at least to the
> point that it's the absolute best that can be done for a reasonable
> buck.
> 
> The addition of punched panels and complete kits had been a lot 
> of trial, error and compromise. I have run two new series of boards
> and one set of overlays but decided to toss 'em in favor of something 
> else. I want a standard across all modules new and old. I had given
> up and was just going on with it but at the last minute my brain 
> turned on and I got the solutions I needed. So ....we begin again.
> 
> My time-table was set for last month...but it looks like it's going to be
> September....... maybe sooner if things go well. I hope to release 14 
> modules and the BassAce2 boards and kits. The book will follow
> shortly after the boards.
> 
> Tom
=======================================================

Cheers...

Keith

http://home.freeuk.net/lowpass



From keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk  Thu Aug  2 01:33:00 2001
From: keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk (Keith Winstanley)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 00:33 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] buggy efm seq2
Message-ID: <memo.664391@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <20010801150734.V23566-100000 at devil.technoendo.net>
Oh and make sure you have to correct schematic,
Tom released the wrong one for a while which foxed everyone.

Your schemo should read:

SEQ2B FINAL
COPYRIGHT (C) EFM 99-2K
DRAWN BY TG 2/21/2K


regards...

Keith

http://home.freeuk.net/lowpass



From jlarryh at iquest.net  Thu Aug  2 01:49:19 2001
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:49:19 -0500
Subject: Thanks - WAS:  [sdiy] Trying to remember that chip
References: <3BD1FCDB8D11D511BDEE00508BB9C35D0DAF4E@EXCHANGE_OBV>
Message-ID: <003a01c11ae4$961af7e0$02362bd1@oemcomputer>

Thanks to everyone that responded.  That is exactly what I was looking
for...
Larry Hendry



> LM3914 (linear), LM3915 (log) and LM3916 (VU).




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug  2 03:41:23 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 21:41:23 -0400
Subject: General CV question (Re: [sdiy] Paia MIDI Fader)
References: <B78CB7A1.8195%sarth@sarth.net>
Message-ID: <3B68AFC2.56AAA62A@prodigy.net>

You might try Interlink Electronics... they have a Force Sensing Resistor
design kit for about $90.... (shipped)  It has an assortment of interesting
small medium and large sensors... including round, square and ribbon
shapes.

I haven't tried mine yet...

H^) harry

sarth at sarth.net wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am a little new and have 2 questions for the list ...
>
> 1) Does anyone have a favorite place to buy variable-resistance sensors?
> I found a light-sensitive photocell that varies it's resistance in response
> to illumination at radio shack, but that's about it.
>
> 2) I think I'm having trouble grasping a basic concept:
>
> There seems to be 2 different types of inputs that accept variable voltage
> or resistance.
>
> The back of most MIDI synths have a CC pedal input, and I presume that pedal
> is varying the resistance of a signal passed through it. However CV inputs
> that want a 0-5 V range seem to operate on a related but different
> principle, in which power is provided to the pedal and the voltage is
> measured across 2 other connectors?
>
> The paia midi fader kit illustration shows it measuring variable voltage
> sources AND having a variable resistor hooked up to 3 inputs simultaneously.
>
> I want to buy sensors from infusion systems ( http://infusionsystems.com )
> and hook them up to the paia midi brain. Someone told me I'd have to rig up
> a voltage divider circuit and sent me the url for this peavey 1600 mod:
>
> http://music.columbia.edu/%7Edouglas/pc1600mod/pc1600mod.html
>
> I just don't understand the distinction between these types of variable
> resistance/voltage circuits. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -- Sarth



From prototek at optonline.net  Thu Aug  2 06:27:06 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 00:27:06 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <B78E4EDA.8090%prototek@optonline.net>

   I'm looking around for a reasonably sized/priced workbench. I don't need
anything too big, just big enough to solder my PCB's and have enough elbow
room, etc.... Does anyone know a place online that sells good workstations
like this?

                           Thanks,
                           Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

-------------- next part --------------
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From tom at tommay.net  Thu Aug  2 08:20:10 2001
From: tom at tommay.net (Tom May)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 23:20:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Clarification on Breath Controller Q
In-Reply-To: gmuir@sympatico.ca's message of "Tue, 31 Jul 2001 9:31:16 EDT"
References: <20010731133116.DMJ15493.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]>
Message-ID: <E15SBq6-0006pj-00@no-spam.tommay.net>

gmuir at sympatico.ca writes:

> Hi all,
> 
> To those of you who have replied, thanks much! 
> 
> I did want to clarify my original question a bit. I realize that you
> can simply feed a BC-1 or BC-2 signal through a DX and run that MIDI
> CC through a MIDI to CV converter, but what I am looking to do is
> keep the signal from the BC in the ANALOG domain (a la CS-01) to
> avoid unnecessary quantization of the control voltage during the
> conversion process(as many have described in their experiments).
> 
> My guess is that one of the pins on the BC plug takes a voltage from
> one of the rails, which powers the internal circuitry, and that
> another pin feeds the synthesizer with a steady CV (which in the
> case of a DX gets sampled into the digital domain and integrated
> with the outgoing MIDI data).

BC-2 is active, it uses a Hall effect sensor and some opamps, sleeve =
ground, ring = +rail, tip = CV out.  The output comes from an opamp so
it doesn't need to be buffered.  If the schematic I traced out a while
back is correct there is diode on the output:

   |\
---|-\___|/|_____ out
---|+/   |\|
   |/

Hmm.  That doesn't make sense.  I probably have it backwards.  I have
to guess it's for protection when it's being plugged in and the tip
hits the +rail contact.

The BC-2 has gain and offset trimmers which may or may not give you
the CV range you want.  Certainly if you want negative CVs you'll need
to tweak the output.  But, negative CVs from a breath controller
probably aren't terribly useful.

fTom.


From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Aug  2 09:20:50 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:20:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
References: <B78E4EDA.8090%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <00d601c11b26$e27af260$5c8a193e@default>

>I'm looking around for a reasonably sized/priced workbench.

Well I use the unfortunately named 'Jerker' from Ikea. Marvellous value,
and it actually fits together like it says in the 'follow me' document.
Which in itself is a marvellous thing,

I can get a whole Polymoog on it and it still stays upright too!

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Thu Aug  2 15:57:48 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:57:48 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
References: <B78E4EDA.8090%prototek@optonline.net> <00d601c11b26$e27af260$5c8a193e@default>
Message-ID: <001f01c11b5b$1d7279e0$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>


> >I'm looking around for a reasonably sized/priced workbench.

My build-it workbench is a 30 inch solid core door on top of two file
cabinets. I cut the door down to 66 inches and put wood tape around the
edges. It looks pretty good with the Verithane finish. In back, on the
underside is a six foot outlet strip and  solid copper ground strip. I use a
carpet liberally doused with static cling to protect equipment and
workbench.

My music workbench is another solid core door 36 inches by 80 inches. This
time I used some substantial wood legs that I obtained from IKEA. This bench
has the same outlet strip and ground. There is a shelf for books and
near-field monitors made from a folding door panel and short wooden table
legs. This desk is substantial enough to hold a 20 inch Sun monitor and a 19
inch ViewSonic.

John



From jdec at mindspring.com  Thu Aug  2 16:33:18 2001
From: jdec at mindspring.com (jdec at mindspring.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:33:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.996762798.0.30580200@www.springmail.com>

If people are looking for studio furniture, please check out
my list of links:

http://www.mindspring.com/~jdec/

Enjoy....

Jeff



From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Thu Aug  2 20:03:13 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:03:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] tb3030 Case and 7945 / 7545 chip
Message-ID: <E15SMqs-0005DK-0V@anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net>

Hi all,

my tb3030 is very nearly finished now (awaiting back ordered parts from
maplin). The problem lies in finding a suitable case. Its a single tb3030
and tbDAC so the obvious choice to me seems to be a 1 unit rack, but they
cost ?33 from maplin UK, and i'm nearly broke. Any suggestions on sources of
cheaper racks (even if incomplete/ crap/ used/ whatever) or any suggestion
of alternative cases.
(I'm consideing ripping apart by ancient broken video machine: same width as
rack without ears, and exactly 2 units deep, just need to make a front
panel).

Secondly the tbDAC calls for a 7545 or 7945. Maplin used to sell one of
these at ?7, but no longer does, and RS online does sell them, but at ?12
and ?4 postage. Any other (UK based) suppliers that stock them?

Thirdly, the tb3030 requires a 47k dual linear omeg eco pot, but maplin has
discontinued these (no longer listed online). Anyone know of other suplliers
of Omeg Eco 16 pots?
thanks for any help

Seb Carr


From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Thu Aug  2 21:08:05 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:08:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <200108021908.OAA02804@celadon.propagation.net>

Jeez,

Isn't this synth-DIY?  I can't beleive that I'd be the only one who built my own workbench!  

2"x4" legs
2"x6" base for the bench top
2"x6" base to support a lower shelf
3/4" ACX plywood for the bench top and shelf top
A few dozen 1/4"-20 x 3" carriage bolts/nuts
A few dozen 2" coarse thread drywall screws
4 hours of work

Total cost was about $40... even less if you have access to scraps from a neighborhood job site.  All you'd need is a circular saw and a drill.  It's strong enough to stand on without wobbling, plus you can build it any size you want.

Dave Magnuson

Resonant Frequency:
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com


_______________________________________________________



From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Thu Aug  2 21:09:51 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:09:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <200108021909.OAA03204@celadon.propagation.net>

Jeez,

Isn't this synth-DIY?  I can't beleive that I'd be the only one who built my own workbench!  

2"x4" legs
2"x6" base for the bench top
2"x6" base to support a lower shelf
3/4" ACX plywood for the bench top and shelf top
A few dozen 1/4"-20 x 3" carriage bolts/nuts
A few dozen 2" coarse thread drywall screws
4 hours of work

Total cost was about $40... even less if you have access to scraps from a neighborhood job site.  All you'd need is a circular saw and a drill.  It's strong enough to stand on without wobbling, plus you can build it any size you want.

Dave Magnuson

Resonant Frequency:
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com


_______________________________________________________



From leaf at babble.vibrant.org  Thu Aug  2 21:12:40 2001
From: leaf at babble.vibrant.org (leaf at babble.vibrant.org)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:12:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] minijacks, 3.5mm, and 1/8" jacks questions
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10108021207410.482-100000@babble.vibrant.org>

Hello,

I recently built a 4 channel analog sequencer (based on the superseq
design) and i've found that the jacks i'm using don't seem to work
consistantly with cables - plugs won't quite grip in some of the jacks
even though they're the same model.  Sometimes the shaft of the plug seems
to short.  Also, some plugs seem just a tad bit too fat for the jacks.

I'm wondering - what is "standard" or common among synth manufacturers for
minijacks?  Is 3.5mm the standard now, and is that used on old arp's,
roland system 100, and kenton?

Also, is there any tips to buying plugs and jacks?  stick to switchcraft?
anyone have any luck getting consistant results, or have a mouser part
number for jacks and plugs that seems to work well and interfaces with
other old analogs?

thanks a bunch,
Phil




From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Thu Aug  2 21:18:22 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:18:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] buggy efm seq2
Message-ID: <200108021918.OAA05627@celadon.propagation.net>

Hi Everyone,

I have 2 unfinished seq2's (no money for all the pots yet!).  The copy of the schematics I have does not have the "SEQ2 Final" text on it...

Does anyone have a copy of the latest set of schematics.  I have a list of corrections, but I'd rather have a revised set of schematics to be sure I didn't miss any when it comes time to fire it up.

Thanks in advance,
Dave Magnuson

You Wrote:
----------

In-Reply-To: <20010801150734.V23566-100000 at devil.technoendo.net>
Oh and make sure you have to correct schematic,
Tom released the wrong one for a while which foxed everyone.

Your schemo should read:

SEQ2B FINAL
COPYRIGHT (C) EFM 99-2K
DRAWN BY TG 2/21/2K


regards...

Keith

http://home.freeuk.net/lowpass


Resonant Frequency:
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com


_______________________________________________________



From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Aug  2 21:42:00 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:42:00 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
References: <200108021908.OAA02804@celadon.propagation.net>
Message-ID: <3B69AD07.E6E90ADF@silcom.com>

    There are two of us...although, my work bench is more of a work table.  I built mine when I was in the 6th grade (1964), and I am still using it.  For legs, I used, of all things, baseball bats.  Very nice finish on them, and good
hard wood.  The top is 1/2 inch plywood, with 1x3 sides.

    -Jim


Dave Magnuson wrote:

> Jeez,
>
> Isn't this synth-DIY?  I can't beleive that I'd be the only one who built my own workbench!
>
> 2"x4" legs
> 2"x6" base for the bench top
> 2"x6" base to support a lower shelf
> 3/4" ACX plywood for the bench top and shelf top
> A few dozen 1/4"-20 x 3" carriage bolts/nuts
> A few dozen 2" coarse thread drywall screws
> 4 hours of work
>
> Total cost was about $40... even less if you have access to scraps from a neighborhood job site.  All you'd need is a circular saw and a drill.  It's strong enough to stand on without wobbling, plus you can build it any size you want.
>
> Dave Magnuson
>
> Resonant Frequency:
> http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html
> resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
>
> _______________________________________________________



From jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr  Thu Aug  2 22:05:21 2001
From: jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:05:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Schematics needed
Message-ID: <3B69B27D.A4237D9@wanadoo.fr>

Hi list,

Could anyone be kind enough to point me
to VC-EG schemo using the CEM3371 ?

Thanks.
JB



From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Thu Aug  2 22:30:07 2001
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:30:07 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <3b69b84f.43ff.0@telusplanet.net>

>Jeez,
>
>Isn't this synth-DIY?  I can't beleive that I'd be the only one who built my
own workbench!  

Well, over the years I have built a few, starting when I was about 12, with
my dad helping me. At one point I even used an old wooden TV cabinet for a workbench.
My current bench is all 2X4 construction, screwed together for easy modification
(NO nails!), with a big slab of 1 1/2 inch surplus laboratory epoxy countertop
that I picked up cheap. It's wired throughout and has a number of (cheap, surplus)
drawer units installed. It's strong enough to support a truck, but the small
removeable carpet on top makes it gentle on equipment as well. At 12 feet by
3 feet, it has grown quite small for my needs, I am considering  doubling it's
size! 

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From dragonser at clara.net  Thu Aug  2 22:38:01 2001
From: dragonser at clara.net (Peter Blackett)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:38:01 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] web address for Theremin event in London
Message-ID: <3B69BA29.67090318@clara.net>

Hi,
just found the web address for the mentioned Theremin event in London
next week.
http://www.strangeattractor.co.uk/
regards Peter



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri Aug  3 00:54:47 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:54:47 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Moog 
References: <200108021918.OAA05627@celadon.propagation.net>
Message-ID: <000901c11ba6$277fe9e0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

moog on history chn now USA.

Tom




From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Aug  3 00:56:10 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:56:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] And yet another PCB
Message-ID: <3B69DA8A.77B18622@silcom.com>

    This one is simple, a power supply board, lot's of copper.

http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/synthmodules/powersupply.html

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From KHeck73 at aol.com  Fri Aug  3 01:47:00 2001
From: KHeck73 at aol.com (KHeck73 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:47:00 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <7a.18a0194f.289b4074@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/2/2001 3:09:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com writes:


> I can't beleive that I'd be the only one who built my own workbench!  



> any years ago I took my parents' already used picnic table and nailed a 
> piece of thin plywood on top of it at the corners. I didn't put a finish on 
> it, or paint it. I could drop blobs of solder on it, or hammer, or cut, and 
> I didn't have to worry about 'messing up' my workbench. I screwed a power 
> strip on the side. After a some years of use (as a workbench and a support 
> for my ham radio station), I pried the four corners off, flipped the 
> plywood over, and bingo:  brand new workbench. It's almost 30 years old, 
> and still standing, even though it spent a number of years outside in the 
> elements. 
> -Karl.



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From sasami at blaze.net.au  Fri Aug  3 01:52:58 2001
From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:52:58 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] minijacks, 3.5mm, and 1/8" jacks questions
Message-ID: <200108022352.f72Nqwd26432@blaze.net.au>

One major problem with 3.5mm jacks is quality. So much hobbyist garbage has
got onto the market. Frequently with these, the insulating band near the tip
is so fat it fouls the socket. Also the internal connections within the
plugs are pretty poor, and can be open circuit sometimes. Either use a top
quality plug, or go to 6.5mm.

I do use 3.5 myself, and a Roland system 100M is part of the setup. There is
no real rhyme or reason to plugs fitting or not, apart from the sloppy
construction of these second rate plugs they now sell. The same applies to
RCA plugs out in Australia. All the hobby shops sell cheap and nasty trash.

Ken


>Hello,
>
>I recently built a 4 channel analog sequencer (based on the superseq
>design) and i've found that the jacks i'm using don't seem to work
>consistantly with cables - plugs won't quite grip in some of the jacks
>even though they're the same model.  Sometimes the shaft of the plug seems
>to short.  Also, some plugs seem just a tad bit too fat for the jacks.
>
>I'm wondering - what is "standard" or common among synth manufacturers for
>minijacks?  Is 3.5mm the standard now, and is that used on old arp's,
>roland system 100, and kenton?
>
>Also, is there any tips to buying plugs and jacks?  stick to switchcraft?
>anyone have any luck getting consistant results, or have a mouser part
>number for jacks and plugs that seems to work well and interfaces with
>other old analogs?
>
>thanks a bunch,
>Phil
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From sasami at blaze.net.au  Fri Aug  3 01:53:00 2001
From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:53:00 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <200108022353.f72Nr0d26438@blaze.net.au>

I built mine too. It is a door from a factory, is huge and is supported on a
sturdy wooden frame. It is so strong I can jump up and down on it with no
problems whatsoever.

Of course it's DIY.

Ken

>Jeez,
>
>Isn't this synth-DIY?  I can't beleive that I'd be the only one who built
my own workbench!  
>
>2"x4" legs
>2"x6" base for the bench top
>2"x6" base to support a lower shelf
>3/4" ACX plywood for the bench top and shelf top
>A few dozen 1/4"-20 x 3" carriage bolts/nuts
>A few dozen 2" coarse thread drywall screws
>4 hours of work
>
>Total cost was about $40... even less if you have access to scraps from a
neighborhood job site.  All you'd need is a circular saw and a drill.  It's
strong enough to stand on without wobbling, plus you can build it any size
you want.
>
>Dave Magnuson
>
>Resonant Frequency:
>http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html
>resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From metamatic at webtv.net  Fri Aug  3 02:16:21 2001
From: metamatic at webtv.net (metamatic at webtv.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:16:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] NE532 replacement
Message-ID: <4718-3B69ED55-1854@storefull-115.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

 Hi all,

 Sorry to post this a second time. I'm restoring my Cat SRM, and IC2, a
NE532 dual op amp, has gone pins up. I'm unable to find any place that
stocks them. Can anybody recommend a source, or barring that, can I just
drop a 4558 or TL072 or something similar in the socket?

 Thanks in advance,

Richard Hess

metamatic at webtv.net



From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Aug  3 03:38:59 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:38:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] minijacks, 3.5mm, and 1/8" jacks questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10108021207410.482-100000@babble.vibrant.org>
Message-ID: <B78F6AE3.2176D%grichter@asapnet.net>

The old 1/8" connectors were 125 thousandths exactly. That is not a nice
number in the metric system. 3.5mm is 137 thousandths but I think is a
misnomer because they are smaller than 125 thousandths. You will have
trouble inserting old ARP cords into new jacks because they are slightly
bigger.

Switchcraft has now reduced the size of their plugs to fit the current
standard. Xicom is a huge manufacturer of electronics and there jacks seem
to be adequately sturdy. They also use an actual spring in contrast to
relying on the spring tension of the contact metal itself. Based on the more
positive contact, it is possible to believe that design may have better
longevity than the leaf spring design.

Oxidation is always a problem over 20 year periods. I have had to replace
badly oxidized or corroded jacks made by Switchcraft. There is no perfect
solution, and paying higher prices does not guarantee longevity. The
exception is gold plating of connectors which is known to improve current
handling and slow oxidation. There is still airborne contamination even in
smoke free studios (car exhaust, skin squams, pollen, mold) which will
eventually coat even gold plated connectors and cause connection problems.

The best solution is regular cleaning and keeping equipment away from high
humidity and dust.

> 
> I'm wondering - what is "standard" or common among synth manufacturers for
> minijacks?  Is 3.5mm the standard now, and is that used on old arp's,
> roland system 100, and kenton?
> 
> Also, is there any tips to buying plugs and jacks?  stick to switchcraft?
> anyone have any luck getting consistant results, or have a mouser part
> number for jacks and plugs that seems to work well and interfaces with
> other old analogs?
> 
> thanks a bunch,
> Phil
> 
> 
> 
> 




From metamatic at webtv.net  Fri Aug  3 03:58:50 2001
From: metamatic at webtv.net (metamatic at webtv.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:58:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] NE532 replacement
In-Reply-To: metamatic@webtv.net's message of Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:16:21
	-0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <5330-3B6A055A-2570@storefull-114.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

 Oops, nevermind. I've just discovered that there's an error in my Cat
schematics, and the 532 is apparently functioning as it should. I've
located the fault (a broken PCB trace), and things are progressing
nicely.

 Sorry for the bandwidth,

Richard Hess

metamatic at webtv.net

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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Aug  3 04:08:16 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 22:08:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
References: <7a.18a0194f.289b4074@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B6A078F.825246F6@prodigy.net>

Aw Sh!t....

DIY workbenches ??? REALLY ????

OK... MY workbench is a piece of 3/4" particle board, reinforced
underneath
with some aluminum strip angle... sitting on two "Microwave" carts

(guess this makes me the Geo Metro of the 'door and two file cabinets'
class)

Total work surface area, not covered with past project debris... 1.5 sq
ft.

Ok back to work....

H^) harry

KHeck73 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/2/2001 3:09:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> resfreq at hoohahrecords.com writes:
>
>
>
>> I can't beleive that I'd be the only one who built my own workbench!
>
>
>
>
>
> M
>
>> any years ago I took my parents' already used picnic table and
>> nailed a
>> piece of thin plywood on top of it at the corners. I didn't put a
>> finish on
>> it, or paint it. I could drop blobs of solder on it, or hammer, or
>> cut, and
>> I didn't have to worry about 'messing up' my workbench. I screwed a
>> power
>> strip on the side. After a some years of use (as a workbench and a
>> support
>> for my ham radio station), I pried the four corners off, flipped the
>>
>> plywood over, and bingo:  brand new workbench. It's almost 30 years
>> old,
>> and still standing, even though it spent a number of years outside
>> in the
>> elements.
>> -Karl.
>
>
>
>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Aug  3 04:19:58 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 22:19:58 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] NE532 replacement
References: <4718-3B69ED55-1854@storefull-115.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <3B6A0A4D.EF1CF479@prodigy.net>

LM2904 is pretty much a direct replacement, also LM158, 258, 358...

Its very similar to the quad (yuck) LM324...

H^) harry

metamatic at webtv.net wrote:

>  Hi all,
>
>  Sorry to post this a second time. I'm restoring my Cat SRM, and IC2, a
> NE532 dual op amp, has gone pins up. I'm unable to find any place that
> stocks them. Can anybody recommend a source, or barring that, can I just
> drop a 4558 or TL072 or something similar in the socket?
>
>  Thanks in advance,
>
> Richard Hess
>
> metamatic at webtv.net



From a0284520 at addcom.de  Fri Aug  3 04:20:57 2001
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 04:20:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] buchla knobs
Message-ID: <3B6A0A8A.1930BBB7@addcom.de>

What kind of knobs were used on later buchla modules? I know the black
ones on the older modules were made by Davies Molding, but what about
the red and blue ones?  I can;t find those on the Davies site....

--
mark verbos

"if you want something done right, build it yourself."

www.simple-answer.com

watch out for...
on my label SIMPLE ANSWER "White Enamel" Simple Answer 005 out now,
distributed by Integrale, UK




From thescum at surfree.com  Fri Aug  3 05:21:09 2001
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:21:09 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010803032109.0097e5e4@smtp.surfree.com>

>Isn't this synth-DIY?  I can't beleive that I'd be the only one who built
my own workbench!  

I DIYed my workbench, too.  Living in a smallish apartment in the Boston
area, space is a premium, so it's sharing the single room that I use for an
office/studio/workshop.

It's a 2' * 4' piece of particleboard with a patching piece of masonite on
top.  I suspended a shelf above it using some metal brackets (like folks
would use to put shelves in closets).

It all sits on this old green 11 space anvil rack case, and there's a
swingarm lamp on top.  The o-scope sits on the floor to one side...computer
to my left, and mixing board to the right.

It's not luxurious, but I'm getting things done on it.

Byron



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Aug  3 05:27:00 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:27:00 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] CV to Midi conversion
References: <l03110707b782b14728a7@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <3B6A1A03.7713C766@prodigy.net>


I want a CV to MIDI note converter that I can add to my theremin / PV-1 / Wiard

Miniwave Quantizer setup.

I'd operate in mono mode... only need one note (chords on a theremin ???)

There are lots of CV to Midi controller units... but I didn't find any that
output
note on/off  (well maybe the PAiA but that is just 8 notes I want MORE...)

I can buy an old synth with a matrix scanned keyboard and do the deed in
about 5 chips...  but then I'd have this BIG box and that wouldn't be much of a
challenge anyway. Well the challenge could be to make the box small....

Or buy some single board micro... and spend twice as much time learning to
make it talk at all....

OR maybe some DIY'er has a better idea... ???

H^) harry




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Aug  3 07:37:14 2001
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 01:37:14 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <3e.f5861f4.289b928a@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/02/2001 7:11:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
harrybissell at prodigy.net writes:


> DIY workbenches ??? REALLY ????
> 
> OK... MY workbench is a piece of 3/4" particle board, reinforced
> underneath
> with some aluminum strip angle... sitting on two "Microwave" carts
> 
> (guess this makes me the Geo Metro of the 'door and two file cabinets'
> class)
> 
> Total work surface area, not covered with past project debris... 1.5 sq
> 

My main bench is something I got as a kit from home depot at about age 15. 
sturdy metal construction, with particle board top and various modifications 
to mount phone jacks (a must for the phone phreak) etc in various places. Two 
swiveling monitor holder arms were added, one for a monitor and the other for 
a scope. That bench is full of junk right now, so I end up doing most of my 
soldering on the washing machine these days. I have another, DIY bench in the 
garage, which is probably at the "cool" end of the "two filing cabinets and a 
door" category. A sheet of plywood scavenged from a medical laser packing 
crate, stuck on top of a 4'x4' acid storage cabinet with huge swinging doors 
and "CORROSIVE" across the front in big letters.

-Chris

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From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Aug  3 07:49:50 2001
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 01:49:50 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
Message-ID: <fb.17aaa9ff.289b957e@aol.com>

Almost forgot to mention my most interesting "bench"..usually serves as more 
of a computer table for my commodore amiga, but sometimes repairs get done on 
it, too. It's an old desk made by DEC, with one of the supports designed to 
put a MicroVAX or MicroPDP-11 inside. Made very sturdily, and completely 
modular for quick disassembly and reassembly (I had to dismantle it to get it 
into my room), with holes built into the top for routing cables and stowing 
the excess in the back with the built in power strip. It also has a built in 
monitor holder (designed to hold a VT-220) that goes up and down on a motor 
drive with the push of a button. The space for the VAX/PDP is going end up 
holding a redunant RAID box hooked to a sampler eventually.

-Chris
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From jblippard at home.com  Fri Aug  3 08:04:49 2001
From: jblippard at home.com (Jonathan Lippard)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 00:04:49 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Moog 
In-Reply-To: <000901c11ba6$277fe9e0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
References: <200108021918.OAA05627@celadon.propagation.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010803000319.01e39c70@mail>

At 06:54 PM 8/2/01 -0400, you wrote:
>moog on history chn now USA.
>
>Tom

Is that the "History's Lost and Found" episode where they were tracking 
down the first Moog?

I've seen that one and I thought it was cool to see pop up on the History 
Channel.  They talk to Herbert Deutsch IIRC, plus there's some archive 
footage of Wendy Carlos at work.

-Jonathan



From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 09:42:34 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 08:42:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Vibrothang
Message-ID: <E15SZdq-0003WK-0K@tele-post-20.mail.demon.net>

I ahve a vibrothang here thats broken, and i don't know why. When plugged in
just makes a faint buzzing, and the silent switch has no effect, neither do
any knobs. contains two LM13600's, a 9605 and a 5153. Could any of tehse be
the culprit? Any ideas? Tips on how to sort stompboxes?

thanks

Seb Carr


From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 09:56:31 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:56:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] tb3030 Case and 7945 / 7545 chip
References: <E15SMqs-0005DK-0V@anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <00a601c11bf2$886f0fa0$b787193e@default>

>The problem lies in finding a suitable case. Its a single tb3030 and
tbDAC so the obvious choice to me seems to be a 1 unit rack, but they
cost ?33 from maplin UK, and i'm nearly broke.

I always prefer 2U for the TB3030 and 33 quid for the Maplin racks isn't
too bad. They're nicely made. However, if you want a cheap rack, then
have a go at building one yourself. Go to Do it all, or any DIY place
that cuts wood for you for free, and get a load of MDF cut to size. Use
12mm thick stuff for the sides. And 6mm for the top, bottom, rear and
front panel. Make sure you plan your cutting sizes on paper carefully
first.

You can cut it yourself, but the machines in the DIY shops are quicker
and cleaner... and usually straighter. (oh no... its the 'synth-get
someone else to do it list' again....)

Cover the front one in sticky back plastic (here's one I made
earlier...), white looks good, black tends to show the bumps.

You can make the thing whatever shape you want, and its dead easy to
drill... but don't breathe the dust. Hold the lot together with wood
screws and the bottom panel can be glued with wood glue for extra
strength.

Total cost will be about a tenner. And it looks better than it should.

>Secondly the tbDAC calls for a 7545 or 7945.

Farnell still have the AD7945BN listed at around a fiver. I did get some
from them last month.

>Thirdly, the tb3030 requires a 47k dual linear omeg eco pot...

Rapid and CPC have them. Go get a Rapid catalogue now Seb, and banish
those Maplin woes forever.

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan







From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 11:14:59 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:14:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Vibrothang update
Message-ID: <E15Sb5H-000A6H-0X@anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net>

Hi all,

well i've found two broken traces and repaired them, and this fixed he
problem of it initially not switching on. Fixed two wires to sockets and
this fixed the humming. Replaced 3 suspect transistors, and now when
bypassed the signal can be heard fine. When activated, the led showing lfo
activity fades in and out as expected, and on certain settings the lfo can
be heard beating. What it doesn't do is pass either the modulated or
cleansignal to the output, just goes silent (except for lfo noise). Does it
look to be a problem with one of the 13600's? (as far as i understand they
multiply the clean sound and the sine lfo to produce the tremolo output)

Any ideas?
Replace the 13600 in question?

Thanks

Seb Carr


From mcphive at corrupt.net  Fri Aug  3 18:17:35 2001
From: mcphive at corrupt.net (andy)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:17:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] synth-diy reason #1
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108031216200.25980-100000@washington.corrupt.net>


	the best thing about doing synth diy:

	when i am at work and looking up component vendors and schematics,
it looks like i'm doing REAL WORK.

	andy



From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Aug  3 18:48:16 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:48:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] buchla knobs
In-Reply-To: <3B6A0A8A.1930BBB7@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <B7904000.21784%grichter@asapnet.net>

The original black knobs are Davies Molding company 1600 and 1610.
The latter colored knobs are Davies 1200 series in colors. Still available I
believe for 1000 piece min orders per knob type. Expect about $1.50 per knob
in 1000 pieces. The Serge uses Davies 1900-H. These are all hot molded
phenolic resin.

Please buy all the 1900-H you can, so they will keep making them!

> From: mark verbos <a0284520 at addcom.de>
> Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 04:20:57 +0200
> To: synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: [sdiy] buchla knobs
> 
> What kind of knobs were used on later buchla modules? I know the black
> ones on the older modules were made by Davies Molding, but what about
> the red and blue ones?  I can;t find those on the Davies site....
> 
> --
> mark verbos
> 
> "if you want something done right, build it yourself."
> 
> www.simple-answer.com
> 
> watch out for...
> on my label SIMPLE ANSWER "White Enamel" Simple Answer 005 out now,
> distributed by Integrale, UK
> 
> 
> 
> 




From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Aug  3 19:03:03 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 12:03:03 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] CV to Midi conversion
In-Reply-To: <3B6A1A03.7713C766@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <B7904376.21785%grichter@asapnet.net>

There is a Wavefront theremin company makes a dedicated pitch to MIDI
converter for theremins.

http://home.earthlink.net/~wavefront/

Web searching "pitch to MIDI" turns up some interesting things

Dedicated chip
http://www.hollis.co.uk/ics/mx101.html

Thereminworld
http://www.thereminworld.com/



> From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:27:00 -0400
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] CV to Midi conversion
> 
> 
> I want a CV to MIDI note converter that I can add to my theremin / PV-1 /
> Wiard
> 
> Miniwave Quantizer setup.
> 
> I'd operate in mono mode... only need one note (chords on a theremin ???)
> 
> There are lots of CV to Midi controller units... but I didn't find any that
> output
> note on/off  (well maybe the PAiA but that is just 8 notes I want MORE...)
> 
> I can buy an old synth with a matrix scanned keyboard and do the deed in
> about 5 chips...  but then I'd have this BIG box and that wouldn't be much of
> a
> challenge anyway. Well the challenge could be to make the box small....
> 
> Or buy some single board micro... and spend twice as much time learning to
> make it talk at all....
> 
> OR maybe some DIY'er has a better idea... ???
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 
> 
> 




From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Aug  3 19:23:13 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:23:13 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] synth-diy reason #1
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108031216200.25980-100000@washington.corrupt.net>
Message-ID: <3B6ADE01.105EEFE8@silcom.com>

    Shhhh....... keep it quiet.....THIS IS SUPPOSED to be a SECRET! ;^)

andy wrote:

>         the best thing about doing synth diy:
>
>         when i am at work and looking up component vendors and schematics,
> it looks like i'm doing REAL WORK.
>
>         andy

    I take this one step further....If I need something for a project at home,
for some reason, the same things seem to end up in my designs at work...for
example, If I am going to use microprocessor A at home, it will end up in a
project at work.  I then purchase a compiler at work, and dang, but sometimes
I end up finding that same compiler on my computer at home....never could
figure out how that happens. :-)

    -Jim




From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  3 20:02:27 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:02:27 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] cheap rack panel (Was tb3030 case and 7945 / 7545 chip)
Message-ID: <F180tLch9wPiyAphwFu0000a90d@hotmail.com>

Cheap Source of 19" Racks is Alltronics.com  
(http://www.alltronics.com/boxes.htm).  They aren't fully enclosed, they're 
just the front panel, I've bought them.  They are in the states though so 
that may be a problem :-(, but a 2u rack panel is only ca. 10 dollars.

Jonathan Pratt

>From: "Tony Allgood" <oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk>
>Reply-To: "Tony Allgood" <oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] tb3030 Case and 7945 / 7545 chip
>Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:56:31 +0100
>
> >The problem lies in finding a suitable case. Its a single tb3030 and
>tbDAC so the obvious choice to me seems to be a 1 unit rack, but they
>cost ?33 from maplin UK, and i'm nearly broke.
>
>I always prefer 2U for the TB3030 and 33 quid for the Maplin racks isn't
>too bad. They're nicely made. However, if you want a cheap rack, then
>have a go at building one yourself. Go to Do it all, or any DIY place
>that cuts wood for you for free, and get a load of MDF cut to size. Use
>12mm thick stuff for the sides. And 6mm for the top, bottom, rear and
>front panel. Make sure you plan your cutting sizes on paper carefully
>first.
>
>You can cut it yourself, but the machines in the DIY shops are quicker
>and cleaner... and usually straighter. (oh no... its the 'synth-get
>someone else to do it list' again....)
>
>Cover the front one in sticky back plastic (here's one I made
>earlier...), white looks good, black tends to show the bumps.
>
>You can make the thing whatever shape you want, and its dead easy to
>drill... but don't breathe the dust. Hold the lot together with wood
>screws and the bottom panel can be glued with wood glue for extra
>strength.
>
>Total cost will be about a tenner. And it looks better than it should.
>
> >Secondly the tbDAC calls for a 7545 or 7945.
>
>Farnell still have the AD7945BN listed at around a fiver. I did get some
>from them last month.
>
> >Thirdly, the tb3030 requires a 47k dual linear omeg eco pot...
>
>Rapid and CPC have them. Go get a Rapid catalogue now Seb, and banish
>those Maplin woes forever.
>
>Regards,
>
>Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England
>
>Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
>www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
>My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan
>
>
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From terje.winther at notam.uio.no  Fri Aug  3 22:12:25 2001
From: terje.winther at notam.uio.no (Terje Winther)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:12:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] synth-diy reason #1
In-Reply-To: <3B6ADE01.105EEFE8@silcom.com>
References:  <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108031216200.25980-100000@washington.corrupt.net>
Message-ID: <l03130304b790b5b42b10@[129.240.240.19]>

>    Shhhh....... keep it quiet.....THIS IS SUPPOSED to be a SECRET! ;^)
>
>andy wrote:
>
>>         the best thing about doing synth diy:
>>
>>         when i am at work and looking up component vendors and schematics,
>> it looks like i'm doing REAL WORK.
>>
>>         andy
>
>    I take this one step further....If I need something for a project at home,
>for some reason, the same things seem to end up in my designs at work...for
>example, If I am going to use microprocessor A at home, it will end up in a
>project at work.  I then purchase a compiler at work, and dang, but sometimes
>I end up finding that same compiler on my computer at home....never could
>figure out how that happens. :-)

I just found out that the complete catalog of the best vendor for parts
sends out their HUGE catalogue for FREE to companies (normally you have to
buy it for aprrox. 12 USD).
So naturally I ordered a copy from work - and HEY - they even included a
searchable CD!


tw.  :)




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Fri Aug  3 23:15:55 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:15:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
References: <200108022353.f72Nr0d26438@blaze.net.au>
Message-ID: <009a01c11c61$7c1d8780$153c073e@paul>

All,

 My original one  was made form that stuff you buy for kitch tops and some
2by2 for legs.
It wasnt brilliant (ok it was nearly 2 meters long) but it worked..
I no whave a 1.5meter one from MFI, 80quid, very nice...

Paul
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com/modulus
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Fri Aug  3 23:20:13 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:20:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CV to Midi conversion
References: <B7904376.21785%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <00d301c11c62$17968e00$153c073e@paul>

Grant,

> Web searching "pitch to MIDI" turns up some interesting things
> 
> Dedicated chip
> http://www.hollis.co.uk/ics/mx101.html

looks like a PIC to me...

Paul
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com/modulus
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Aug  3 23:31:47 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:31:47 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Workbenches?
References: <3e.f5861f4.289b928a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B6B1842.48E2AB54@prodigy.net>

Oh YEAH ???

I forgot to add that my METAL SHOP workbench is the top of
the dryer... the ladies just LOVE me when the aluminum chips
get into their panty hose....

H^)  harry

CHoaglin at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 08/02/2001 7:11:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> harrybissell at prodigy.net writes:
>
>
>
>> DIY workbenches ??? REALLY ????
>>
>> OK... MY workbench is a piece of 3/4" particle board, reinforced
>> underneath
>> with some aluminum strip angle... sitting on two "Microwave" carts
>>
>> (guess this makes me the Geo Metro of the 'door and two file
>> cabinets'
>> class)
>>
>> Total work surface area, not covered with past project debris... 1.5
>> sq
>> ft.
>
> My main bench is something I got as a kit from home depot at about age
> 15.
> sturdy metal construction, with particle board top and various
> modifications
> to mount phone jacks (a must for the phone phreak) etc in various
> places. Two
> swiveling monitor holder arms were added, one for a monitor and the
> other for
> a scope. That bench is full of junk right now, so I end up doing most
> of my
> soldering on the washing machine these days. I have another, DIY bench
> in the
> garage, which is probably at the "cool" end of the "two filing
> cabinets and a
> door" category. A sheet of plywood scavenged from a medical laser
> packing
> crate, stuck on top of a 4'x4' acid storage cabinet with huge swinging
> doors
> and "CORROSIVE" across the front in big letters.
>
> -Chris



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Aug  3 23:45:52 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:45:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] CV to Midi conversion
References: <B7904376.21785%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <3B6B1B8F.7BAC5A65@prodigy.net>

Thanks Grant... I bumped into that one, but I think it will use pitch bend to
do a realistic theremin...

My "MiniWave" equipped theremin is no longer a theremin....   ;^P

H^) harry

Grant Richter wrote:

> There is a Wavefront theremin company makes a dedicated pitch to MIDI
> converter for theremins.
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~wavefront/
>
> Web searching "pitch to MIDI" turns up some interesting things
>
> Dedicated chip
> http://www.hollis.co.uk/ics/mx101.html
>
> Thereminworld
> http://www.thereminworld.com/
>
> > From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> > Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:27:00 -0400
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: [sdiy] CV to Midi conversion
> >
> >
> > I want a CV to MIDI note converter that I can add to my theremin / PV-1 /
> > Wiard
> >
> > Miniwave Quantizer setup.
> >
> > I'd operate in mono mode... only need one note (chords on a theremin ???)
> >
> > There are lots of CV to Midi controller units... but I didn't find any that
> > output
> > note on/off  (well maybe the PAiA but that is just 8 notes I want MORE...)
> >
> > I can buy an old synth with a matrix scanned keyboard and do the deed in
> > about 5 chips...  but then I'd have this BIG box and that wouldn't be much of
> > a
> > challenge anyway. Well the challenge could be to make the box small....
> >
> > Or buy some single board micro... and spend twice as much time learning to
> > make it talk at all....
> >
> > OR maybe some DIY'er has a better idea... ???
> >
> > H^) harry
> >
> >
> >
> >



From pinknoiz at pinknoiz.com  Sat Aug  4 00:03:22 2001
From: pinknoiz at pinknoiz.com (Bob Gonsalves)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:03:22 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] EDN DESIGN IDEAS for August 3, 2001
Message-ID: <p04320401b790cdec441e@[64.1.6.33]>

I'll be forwarding these to the list as I receive them.

DESIGN IDEAS
  For the complete Design Ideas section in PDF format, go to
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.10.910807891

Centronics port generates narrow pulse widths
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.11.910807891

Preprocessor for rotary encoder uses PAL
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.12.910807891

Inverters form three-phase VCO
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.13.910807891

Power inverter is bidirectional
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.14.910807891


Regards,
-- 
Bob Gonsalves, Research Director, Pink Noise Studios
Art*Technology*Politics  http://www.pinknoiz.com/


From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat Aug  4 00:50:12 2001
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:50:12 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] EDN DESIGN IDEAS for August 3, 2001
In-Reply-To: <p04320401b790cdec441e@[64.1.6.33]>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010804005012.00eafcf0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>


Thanks Bob!

The three phase VCO is really interesting. 

Cheers,
 Ren?


At 15:03 03.08.01 -0700, Bob Gonsalves wrote:
>I'll be forwarding these to the list as I receive them.
>
>DESIGN IDEAS
>  For the complete Design Ideas section in PDF format, go to
>http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.10.910807891
>
>Centronics port generates narrow pulse widths
>http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.11.910807891
>
>Preprocessor for rotary encoder uses PAL
>http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.12.910807891
>
>Inverters form three-phase VCO
>http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.13.910807891
>
>Power inverter is bidirectional
>http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.882.14.910807891
>
>
>Regards,
>-- 
>Bob Gonsalves, Research Director, Pink Noise Studios
>Art*Technology*Politics  http://www.pinknoiz.com/
>
-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From mtmelvin at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 02:16:35 2001
From: mtmelvin at yahoo.com (Mark Melvin)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:16:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Diagnosis Help Please
Message-ID: <20010804001635.26866.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all-

First of all, let me say that I'm still new at this
stuff... so be patient with my ignorance. 

I'm almost finished with my first synth project and
almost everything is working... and what isn't working
I believe I can fix.
HOWEVER, I have this annoying feature that I hadn't
planned on incuding.  Perhaps if I describe what I am
hearing someone could make a guess as to what is
happening.

What I am experiencing is best bescribed as "beating"
in the VCO.  To me it seems like there is a signal
that has bled into the VCO.  It seems to be constant. 
If I sweep the VCO over it's frequency range I will
hear the beating (two frequencies sounding together)
changing and then disappearing at a few given points
across the range of the VCO.  I believe these points
are one octave apart.

This goes away completely when power the VCO alone. 
However, when I add one or more additional modules
from my PSU the beating returns and becomes worse with
each additional module.

Any ideas about what this could be?  Thank you in
advance for any help!

-Mark

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Aug  4 04:27:05 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:27:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Diagnosis Help Please
References: <20010804001635.26866.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B6B5D78.9992AC9C@silcom.com>

    Wild Ass guess here....if you have a scope, check your power supply
rails.  It sounds like your power supply is going out of regulation.  If you
are using 78xx/79xx type regulators, this is pretty common if you don't have
enough headroom going into them (they require that the input voltage be 3
volts min above the output).

    If you have any spare filter caps, double them up.  If this reduces or
eliminates the problem, you are probably on the right track.

    As a rule of thumb...for +/- 15 volt supplies, I use at least a 30 VCT
transformer with 4700uF 35 volt filter caps.  For +/- 12 volts, a 24 VCT
transformer with 4700uF caps.  Of course, I am assuming that the power
supply is your problem.


Mark Melvin wrote:

> Hi all-
>
> First of all, let me say that I'm still new at this
> stuff... so be patient with my ignorance.
>
> I'm almost finished with my first synth project and
> almost everything is working... and what isn't working
> I believe I can fix.
> HOWEVER, I have this annoying feature that I hadn't
> planned on incuding.  Perhaps if I describe what I am
> hearing someone could make a guess as to what is
> happening.
>
> What I am experiencing is best bescribed as "beating"
> in the VCO.  To me it seems like there is a signal
> that has bled into the VCO.  It seems to be constant.
> If I sweep the VCO over it's frequency range I will
> hear the beating (two frequencies sounding together)
> changing and then disappearing at a few given points
> across the range of the VCO.  I believe these points
> are one octave apart.
>
> This goes away completely when power the VCO alone.
> However, when I add one or more additional modules
> from my PSU the beating returns and becomes worse with
> each additional module.
>
> Any ideas about what this could be?  Thank you in
> advance for any help!
>
> -Mark
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Aug  4 06:13:41 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:13:41 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Diagnosis Help Please
References: <20010804001635.26866.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B6B7674.62C74F86@prodigy.net>

Hi Mark....

It sounds like you are getting power supply ripple... an AC signal that is
riding on the +/- DC supplies.  This usually means that the supply is
inadequate
in some way... like

Too small (uF) filter capacitors...
Voltage too low before the regulators (the supply IS regulated... isn't it
:^)
Too much current draw is reducing the voltage to where the regulators no
longer work... etc...

The offensive frequency will usually be 60Hz or 120Hz... and will be a sort
of sawtooth wave.  Look at the supplies using a scope set to AC coupling and

crank up the scope input gain... If your supply is good you see a straight
line...
if bad you will see the ripple.

No scope... try measuring the DC supplies with your meter set to AC...

H^) harry

Mark Melvin wrote:

> Hi all-
>
> First of all, let me say that I'm still new at this
> stuff... so be patient with my ignorance.
>
> I'm almost finished with my first synth project and
> almost everything is working... and what isn't working
> I believe I can fix.
> HOWEVER, I have this annoying feature that I hadn't
> planned on incuding.  Perhaps if I describe what I am
> hearing someone could make a guess as to what is
> happening.
>
> What I am experiencing is best bescribed as "beating"
> in the VCO.  To me it seems like there is a signal
> that has bled into the VCO.  It seems to be constant.
> If I sweep the VCO over it's frequency range I will
> hear the beating (two frequencies sounding together)
> changing and then disappearing at a few given points
> across the range of the VCO.  I believe these points
> are one octave apart.
>
> This goes away completely when power the VCO alone.
> However, when I add one or more additional modules
> from my PSU the beating returns and becomes worse with
> each additional module.
>
> Any ideas about what this could be?  Thank you in
> advance for any help!
>
> -Mark
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From gluesniffinghunchback at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 08:20:19 2001
From: gluesniffinghunchback at yahoo.com (Glue Sniff)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:20:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] ever tryed to fix an EPS16+ (w) a broken floppy??
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010803000319.01e39c70@mail>
Message-ID: <20010804062019.1928.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>

has any one here ever tryed to fix an ensoniq EPS16+
(sampling workstation/synth)???   mine has a broken
floppy disk drive so I cant even used the thing. It
does however have the SCSI upgrade and flashbank.   I
am told that I can use a mac zip drive (which Iomega
no longer makes) with the SCSI.  so I hunt down a used
one and buy it. I finaly get it and it still doesnt
work. so I then find out that I have to do a term
power modification with a shotkey diode (thanks for
telling me the model#). so that the drive will work.
well guess what, it still doesnt work. "Format SCSI
drive", is missing from the list.     do you guys
think its a software problem? do you think I should
somehow try to reload the OS?  or does someone know
how I can get this thing finaly working.          
Thanks everyone

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From gluesniffinghunchback at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 08:20:59 2001
From: gluesniffinghunchback at yahoo.com (Glue Sniff)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:20:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] ever tryed to fix an EPS16+ (w) a broken floppy??
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010803000319.01e39c70@mail>
Message-ID: <20010804062059.50477.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com>

has any one here ever tryed to fix an ensoniq EPS16+
(sampling workstation/synth)???   mine has a broken
floppy disk drive so I cant even used the thing. It
does however have the SCSI upgrade and flashbank.   I
am told that I can use a mac zip drive (which Iomega
no longer makes) with the SCSI.  so I hunt down a used
one and buy it. I finaly get it and it still doesnt
work. so I then find out that I have to do a term
power modification with a shotkey diode (thanks for
telling me the model#). so that the drive will work.
well guess what, it still doesnt work. "Format SCSI
drive", is missing from the list.     do you guys
think its a software problem? do you think I should
somehow try to reload the OS?  or does someone know
how I can get this thing finaly working.          
Thanks everyone

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk  Sat Aug  4 17:14:59 2001
From: nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 16:14:59 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] Final magazine clearout
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0108041608130.14822-100000@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk>

Ok all,

I'm having a final magazine clearout before I move out of college.  There
are 68 magazines left, mainly Keyboard (US), a few Sound-On-Sounds, and
various others.  I have a complete list, including the main items covered
in each issue.  If you're interested, email me off-list and I'll email
back the magazine list.

I also have two Music Technology binders in good condition.

I'm looking for 50p (about 30c) per magazine, plus postage, and 1.50 UKP
(about $2.50) for the binders.

   BUT

As I want to get rid of them quickly I'm quite prepared to make a deal.
Any that aren't gone by the end of August will be binned.

Now back to the main program.....

Neil

--
Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::
  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22           +44 (0) 1223 334 477
----  IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk  -----



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Sat Aug  4 17:47:02 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:47:02 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] ever tryed to fix an EPS16+ (w) a broken floppy??
Message-ID: <46.18980213.289d72f6@aol.com>

A friend of mine had one with a bum floppy drive and he tracked down a 
replacement.  I think from an old PC.  there are quite a few net resources 
for the EPS and other ensoniq,  try searching Google

http://www.google.com

goodluck

ed


From nitrogen at softhome.net  Sat Aug  4 22:27:05 2001
From: nitrogen at softhome.net (nitrogen at softhome.net)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:27:05 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
Message-ID: <20010804202705.6684.qmail@softhome.net>


For those who don't know (yeah, right, like anybody on this list isn't
aware), the minimoog Voyager (A.K.A. New Performance Synthesizer) specs and
order page are up on http://www.bigbriar.com/ -- reserve your hand signed
by Bob Moog synthesizer for $500...  It would look and sound great hooked
up to that DIY modular or ring modulator or whatever.  If only I could
afford this synth...



                --
           Mike Bourgeous
Programmer, Musician, Graphics Artist
    E-mail: nitrogen at softhome.net


From ka4hjh at gte.net  Sat Aug  4 23:07:32 2001
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 17:07:32 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] ever tryed to fix an EPS16+ (w) a broken floppy??
In-Reply-To: <20010804062019.1928.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20010804062019.1928.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04320401b79213c1a69e@[63.23.233.106]>

>has any one here ever tryed to fix an ensoniq EPS16+
>(sampling workstation/synth)???   mine has a broken
>floppy disk drive so I cant even used the thing.

This guy has an ESQ/SQ page with lots of info. Here's the part on replacing
a floppy drive (in a Casio but it's supposed to be similar):

http://www.buchty.net/emr/casio/drive-if.html

Check out the rest of the site.

>It
>does however have the SCSI upgrade and flashbank.   I
>am told that I can use a mac zip drive (which Iomega
>no longer makes) with the SCSI.  so I hunt down a used
>one and buy it. I finaly get it and it still doesnt
>work. so I then find out that I have to do a term
>power modification with a shotkey diode (thanks for
>telling me the model#). so that the drive will work.
>well guess what, it still doesnt work. "Format SCSI
>drive", is missing from the list.     do you guys
>think its a software problem? do you think I should
>somehow try to reload the OS?  or does someone know
>how I can get this thing finaly working.

Does the drive work with a Mac?

Do you have to load the EPS OS from a floppy first or is the SCSI support
in firmware?

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Aug  5 00:03:58 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:03:58 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <20010804202705.6684.qmail@softhome.net>
Message-ID: <3B6C714E.369FF505@silcom.com>

    $3000....well, maybe a little steep for my income as well.  I will be
interested to see how many they sell at that price.  I sure hope this means the
return of Bob Moog to the world of analog synths is permanent!

    It looks like a very nice little machine, too!

nitrogen at softhome.net wrote:

> For those who don't know (yeah, right, like anybody on this list isn't
> aware), the minimoog Voyager (A.K.A. New Performance Synthesizer) specs and
> order page are up on http://www.bigbriar.com/ -- reserve your hand signed
> by Bob Moog synthesizer for $500...  It would look and sound great hooked
> up to that DIY modular or ring modulator or whatever.  If only I could
> afford this synth...
>
>                 --
>            Mike Bourgeous
> Programmer, Musician, Graphics Artist
>     E-mail: nitrogen at softhome.net

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Sun Aug  5 00:38:00 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:38:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <20010804202705.6684.qmail@softhome.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c11d36$1eaedba0$335301d5@paul>

All,

> For those who don't know (yeah, right, like anybody on this list isn't
> aware), the minimoog Voyager (A.K.A. New Performance Synthesizer) specs
and
> order page are up on http://www.bigbriar.com/ -- reserve your hand signed
> by Bob Moog synthesizer for $500...  It would look and sound great hooked
> up to that DIY modular or ring modulator or whatever.  If only I could
> afford this synth...

my only concern is that of many peoples..
Theres no REAL pictures there... no sounds....

I dont doubt for a moment it will exist, but Id like to see/hear the real
thing before I parted with my cash,
I'll admit the price is great..

Paul




From Mesa237 at aol.com  Sun Aug  5 02:46:24 2001
From: Mesa237 at aol.com (Mesa237 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:46:24 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] ever tryed to fix an EPS16+ (w) a broken floppy??
Message-ID: <6.1a6848a0.289df160@aol.com>

i've had many an eps in my repair shop, and though i have little hope for 
you, i do have some advice.

if you can  load the o.s. from floppy just once, you can then format the zip 
drive, and load straight from it.  the trick is, finding someone with a 
working floppy drive in another EPS (new 16+ or original), or an SD-1, or 
VFX-SD (largely the same drives).

i've tried sending the old sony mpf-420 drives back to sony, and they 
"repaired" them, but still did not work.  i've also seen what appears to be a 
bad floppy drive, but is really a problem on the motherboard... so that 
replacing the dive with a known good drive is no help.  Now and again, the 
floppy cable is crimped somewhere (likely by the standoffs that secure the 
keyboard mechanism in place.

i'd say your best bet is to get someone (from the list, or otherwise) that 
lives near you with an eps 16+ to format the drive for you, or beg syntaur to 
format you some Zip disks...

**most important of all, check out 
http://www.syntaur.com/syntaur/ensoniq.html *****

if anyone can help, it's them.

-pdb


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Aug  5 03:47:26 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:47:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <20010804202705.6684.qmail@softhome.net> <3B6C714E.369FF505@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3B6CA5AD.1A69B6CD@prodigy.net>

Well... I think that the 'vibe' of playing this $3,000 beastie on my next gig
(a coffeehouse that pays $50 for the whole band for the night...)might make it
all worth it .  My fourth of that is $12.50... at one gig a month that would pay
off in... er....
twenty years.

Sh!t.  I could STEAL yours and only do 3-5 years     ;^P

It does look nice.

H^) harry

patchell wrote:

>     $3000....well, maybe a little steep for my income as well.  I will be
> interested to see how many they sell at that price.  I sure hope this means the
> return of Bob Moog to the world of analog synths is permanent!
>
>     It looks like a very nice little machine, too!
>
> nitrogen at softhome.net wrote:
>
> > For those who don't know (yeah, right, like anybody on this list isn't
> > aware), the minimoog Voyager (A.K.A. New Performance Synthesizer) specs and
> > order page are up on http://www.bigbriar.com/ -- reserve your hand signed
> > by Bob Moog synthesizer for $500...  It would look and sound great hooked
> > up to that DIY modular or ring modulator or whatever.  If only I could
> > afford this synth...
> >
> >                 --
> >            Mike Bourgeous
> > Programmer, Musician, Graphics Artist
> >     E-mail: nitrogen at softhome.net
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------



From controlkeys at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  5 17:19:46 2001
From: controlkeys at hotmail.com (Bill Keys)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:19:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Vacation Time
Message-ID: <F140eBa1kg3AmsfGdMN0000b02e@hotmail.com>

Have to

unsubscribe

due to vacation on a remote island. Er, well, New York state, anyway, which 
is basically the same thing.

+_+_Yes, honey, I know there are 25 boxes of electronic junk cluttering up 
the attic. They will, one day, magically be transformed into a modular 
synthesizer cluttering up the attic.... www.mp3.com/OriginalSimulacrum _+_+

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From xinclxsynth-diy at mkv.mh.se  Sun Aug  5 17:42:12 2001
From: xinclxsynth-diy at mkv.mh.se (Synth-DIY)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:42:12 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
Message-ID: <fc.000f4924005a218f000f4924005a218f.5a2192@mkv.mh.se>

Hi list!

Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com skriver:
>Theres no REAL pictures there... no sounds....

Here are some real photos:
http://www.synthony.com/Products/voyager.html

Still no samples

/Per Mattsson



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Sun Aug  5 18:30:12 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:30:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <20010804202705.6684.qmail@softhome.net> <3B6C714E.369FF505@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <003301c11dcb$e8f93fa0$9438073e@paul>

Jim,

>     $3000....well, maybe a little steep for my income as well.  I will be
> interested to see how many they sell at that price.  I sure hope this
means the
> return of Bob Moog to the world of analog synths is permanent!

Yeah, I thought it was just $500... $3000 is WAY over the top..

>     It looks like a very nice little machine, too!

agreed, but Im not sure its worth $3000...

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com/modulus
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Aug  5 23:40:52 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:40:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Trouble subscribing to Synth-DIY
Message-ID: <3B6DBD63.D94C37A2@silcom.com>

Hello,

    This is a forward for "Glen" who is having trouble with subscribing
to the synth-diy.

    This is mostly intended for Rick Jansen.

----------------------------------------

Subject:
        I need help with the Synth-DIY list
   Date:
        Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:45:49 -0400
   From:
        Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com>

I hope you don't mind to forward this email to the synth-diy list for
me.
For the last few months, I've gotten only one or two posts per month
from
the synth-diy list! I don't know what's gone wrong. I tried to
re-subscribe, but my ISP's email service can't get a response from the
majordomo server at synth-diy. I tried to email the list administrator,
but
those emails bounced back within moments of my sending them. I can
access
the searchable archives, and I've verified that other people are
apparently
receiving their posts, and they remain active on synth-diy.

Please forward this email to the list for me. Perhaps someone will be
able
to help get my synth-diy subscription back to normal. I haven't seen
normal
service since perhaps April of this year.

Thanks,
Glen





--
 -Jim




From matti at devo.com  Mon Aug  6 01:14:30 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:14:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
In-Reply-To: <003301c11dcb$e8f93fa0$9438073e@paul>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108051911470.9368-100000@whipit.devo.com>

You're looking at it from the point of view of a diy-synthesist, I think.
Imagine being someone who could never build the thing on their own for the
life of them, who value bob moog's return to the field of synthesizers,
and who view the signature as something with high personal and cultural
importance. Of course, it _is_ in large part marketting....


On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Paul Maddox wrote:

>
> Yeah, I thought it was just $500... $3000 is WAY over the top..
>
> >     It looks like a very nice little machine, too!
>
> agreed, but Im not sure its worth $3000...
>
> Paul Maddox
> _______________________________________
> Wavesynth home page;-
>     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>     Http://www.wavesynth.com/modulus
> Waveterm C Project page;-
>     Http://www.waveterm.com

-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From synth1 at airmail.net  Mon Aug  6 02:24:24 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:24:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Fw: Sun. Night Demo Time
Message-ID: <000f01c11e0e$2576c280$023f240a@airmail.net>

 Check out Mike Marsh's Zappa-inspired MOTM modular demo at:
 
www.synthtech.com/news

scroll down a bit, you see it. Great FM bells!

 And if you haven't already, download Ken Elhardt's breath-controlled brass
 demos there at the top of the  page. Vangelis and a CS-80? BAH!
 
 Paul S.




From cyborgzero at home.com  Mon Aug  6 03:19:52 2001
From: cyborgzero at home.com (Rob B)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:19:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108051911470.9368-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c11e1d$11f8fde0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>

even without any electronics knowledge whatsoever, it would still be a
dubious purchase, regardless of its cult status, esp for the masses.

I mean, cmon, even now I would be more tempted to spend 1k+ on just a
minimoog, Sunsyn, Andromeda, Omega, ATC-1, Waldorf Q, and get more poly,
more keys, yadda yadda.

This board is just for purist imo, and Bob knows that to them money is no
object, although there aren't many out there so he is going to charge out
the wazoo for the added cost of doing small runs etc etc.

The signature is hilarious.. One thing I always liked about synths was that
there wasn't this rock star mentality. You could be who you wanted to be
without a designer or some other rock stars name getting in the way.

What he is doing is kinda good though, in a way: charging the
"gotta-have-its" the gotta have price to pay for the tooling cost, etc, so
that when the rest of us decide its a decent unit and get the feel for it,
we buy it and get charged far less.


Rob

aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
----- Original Message -----
From: matti <matti at devo.com>
To: Paul Maddox <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
Cc: Synth DIY LIST <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!


> You're looking at it from the point of view of a diy-synthesist, I think.
> Imagine being someone who could never build the thing on their own for the
> life of them, who value bob moog's return to the field of synthesizers,
> and who view the signature as something with high personal and cultural
> importance. Of course, it _is_ in large part marketting....
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Paul Maddox wrote:
>
> >
> > Yeah, I thought it was just $500... $3000 is WAY over the top..
> >
> > >     It looks like a very nice little machine, too!
> >
> > agreed, but Im not sure its worth $3000...
> >
> > Paul Maddox
> > _______________________________________
> > Wavesynth home page;-
> >     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> > Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> >     Http://www.wavesynth.com/modulus
> > Waveterm C Project page;-
> >     Http://www.waveterm.com
>
> -
> finland red
> germany black
> egypt white
>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Aug  6 04:19:38 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 22:19:38 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108051911470.9368-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <3B6DFEB9.DDCC10F7@prodigy.net>

Yes I hear that....

OTOH I remember looking at the Prophet V for the first time... and wondering
why anyone would give them $3500 for it. Until they told me "it plays five
notes
at once..."   A month later I had one. Three years later... it was paid for.

Its a sweet looking box... I think I'll buy one in each color scheme...
y'said it_is_in large part marketing.

But welcome back to BOB anyway. He's a great guy and I hope that
Moog will produce other instruments as well....

H^) harry

matti wrote:

> You're looking at it from the point of view of a diy-synthesist, I think.
> Imagine being someone who could never build the thing on their own for the
> life of them, who value bob moog's return to the field of synthesizers,
> and who view the signature as something with high personal and cultural
> importance. Of course, it _is_ in large part marketting....
>
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Paul Maddox wrote:
>
> >
> > Yeah, I thought it was just $500... $3000 is WAY over the top..
> >
> > >     It looks like a very nice little machine, too!
> >
> > agreed, but Im not sure its worth $3000...
> >
> > Paul Maddox
> > _______________________________________
> > Wavesynth home page;-
> >     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> > Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> >     Http://www.wavesynth.com/modulus
> > Waveterm C Project page;-
> >     Http://www.waveterm.com
>
> -
> finland red
> germany black
> egypt white



From njpguy at icqmail.com  Mon Aug  6 05:08:18 2001
From: njpguy at icqmail.com (Nicholas Pelkey)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 20:08:18 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
Message-ID: <20010806030818.28285.cpmta@c005.sfo.cp.net>

Ya know the signature series offers more than a signature...
Hand-finished cabinet in your choice of genuine solid maple (light), cherry (honey-colored), or walnut (brown).
Illuminated, clear acryllic Pitch Bend and Modulation wheels
Gold-plated nameplate
Padded Gig Bag
Four-year warranty, with two free factory tunings.
A specific low serial number is assigned to each order.
Every Signature Edition Instrument is individually inspected and signed by Bob Moog.

A couple of these seem like mods a diy person would do.
like the pitch wheel etc...saw that recently on someones mini.

Regular orders get two year warranties...and the software is upgradeable.  So 500 bucks for some neat stuff that I would do myself..... And being a part of history...I mean "Bob Moog" is putting out a synth!!

Also this thing does chords too via midi out...
On Sun, 05 August 2001, "Rob B" wrote:

> 
> even without any electronics knowledge whatsoever, it would still be a
> dubious purchase, regardless of its cult status, esp for the masses.
> 
> I mean, cmon, even now I would be more tempted to spend 1k+ on just a
> minimoog, Sunsyn, Andromeda, Omega, ATC-1, Waldorf Q, and get more poly,
> more keys, yadda yadda.
> 
> This board is just for purist imo, and Bob knows that to them money is no
> object, although there aren't many out there so he is going to charge out
> the wazoo for the added cost of doing small runs etc etc.
> 
> The signature is hilarious.. One thing I always liked about synths was that
> there wasn't this rock star mentality. You could be who you wanted to be
> without a designer or some other rock stars name getting in the way.
> 
> What he is doing is kinda good though, in a way: charging the
> "gotta-have-its" the gotta have price to pay for the tooling cost, etc, so
> that when the rest of us decide its a decent unit and get the feel for it,
> we buy it and get charged far less.
> 
> 
> Rob
> 
> aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: matti <matti at devo.com>
> To: Paul Maddox <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
> Cc: Synth DIY LIST <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 6:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
> 
> 
> > You're looking at it from the point of view of a diy-synthesist, I think.
> > Imagine being someone who could never build the thing on their own for the
> > life of them, who value bob moog's return to the field of synthesizers,
> > and who view the signature as something with high personal and cultural
> > importance. Of course, it _is_ in large part marketting....
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Paul Maddox wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Yeah, I thought it was just $500... $3000 is WAY over the top..
> > >
> > > >     It looks like a very nice little machine, too!
> > >
> > > agreed, but Im not sure its worth $3000...
> > >
> > > Paul Maddox
> > > _______________________________________
> > > Wavesynth home page;-
> > >     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> > > Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> > >     Http://www.wavesynth.com/modulus
> > > Waveterm C Project page;-
> > >     Http://www.waveterm.com
> >
> > -
> > finland red
> > germany black
> > egypt white
> >




-------------------------------------------------------------
Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html


From don at till.com  Mon Aug  6 05:52:18 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
In-Reply-To: <000001c11e1d$11f8fde0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>
	(cyborgzero@home.com)
Message-ID: <200108060352.UAA01706@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: matti <matti at devo.com>
   Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 6:14 PM

   agreed, but Im not sure its worth $3000...

   From: "Rob B" <cyborgzero at home.com>
   Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:19:52 -0500

   I mean, cmon, even now I would be more tempted to spend 1k+ on just
   a minimoog, Sunsyn, Andromeda, Omega, ATC-1, Waldorf Q, and get
   more poly, more keys, yadda yadda.

Harumph!  You're not paying for a set of features, you're paying for a
Musical Instrument.  Many folks would gladly hand over twice that for
a limited edition Stratocaster with Leo's signature on it.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Mon Aug  6 08:43:00 2001
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:43:00 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <200108060352.UAA01706@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <3B6E3C74.DED5BA6C@consol.de>

Hi Don 

> Musical Instrument.  Many folks would gladly hand over twice that for
> a limited edition Stratocaster with Leo's signature on it.
Those are guitar players! We talk about musicians... ;-)
          ^^^^^^
         (Replace by bass/viola/trombone/...)

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de


From mtmelvin at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 08:50:20 2001
From: mtmelvin at yahoo.com (Mark Melvin)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 23:50:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks... my synth is done!
Message-ID: <20010806065020.38591.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com>

Well, I finished my first synth project and I wanted
to take the time to give sincere thanks to those on
this list that helped me so much... 
Magnus, Harry, Rene, Patchell, Paul, Ingo, etc.
I truly enjoyed the experience, and I learned so much.
Plus... now I have a modular synth!

Because everyone hates attachments I threw some pics
on geocities for anyone who would like to see.

http://www.geocities.com/mtmelvin/Synth.html

Thanks again guys!  This list is awesome.

-Mark

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Mon Aug  6 08:54:44 2001
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:54:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ever tryed to fix an EPS16+ (w) a broken floppy??
References: <20010804062059.50477.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B6E3F34.D9555388@consol.de>

Hi Glue 

Try out http://www.buchty.net. Rainer Buchty bought my second FZ-1 about a year
ago and fixed it. He found that a standard PC floppy drive can be modified for
the Casio. 
Also he can recite the assembler code of an SQ80/ESQ-1 while sleeping, so I
think, he might be able to help you.

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de


From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Mon Aug  6 09:22:31 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:22:31 +0200 
Subject: [sdiy] test: just a test: delete me
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AEF7D@exchange1.intermetall.de>

sorry bouncing problems, delete me.

m.c.


From prototek at optonline.net  Mon Aug  6 09:47:23 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 03:47:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks... my synth is done!
In-Reply-To: <20010806065020.38591.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B793C3CB.81B3%prototek@optonline.net>

on 8/6/01 2:50 AM, Mark Melvin at mtmelvin at yahoo.com wrote:

> Well, I finished my first synth project and I wanted
> to take the time to give sincere thanks to those on
> this list that helped me so much...
> Magnus, Harry, Rene, Patchell, Paul, Ingo, etc.
> I truly enjoyed the experience, and I learned so much.
> Plus... now I have a modular synth!
> 
> Because everyone hates attachments I threw some pics
> on geocities for anyone who would like to see.
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/mtmelvin/Synth.html
> 
> Thanks again guys!  This list is awesome.
> 
> -Mark

   Nice job. Can we hear it?? :)
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From synthbuilder at hotmail.com  Mon Aug  6 10:53:26 2001
From: synthbuilder at hotmail.com (Isac Jensen)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:53:26 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] buchla knobs
Message-ID: <F172R881Np7vXee4fDG00008cdd@hotmail.com>



>in 1000 pieces. The Serge uses Davies 1900-H. These are all hot molded
>phenolic resin.
>
>Please buy all the 1900-H you can, so they will keep making them!
>

I once bought 100 pieces from Mouser, thinking that these would be the ones 
used by Serge. Upon receiving the knobs I realised that they diddn't have 
the white top engraving/marking, making them almost useless for my project.

I was thinking about using a Dremel tool to do the engraving myself, adding 
white paint as a finish.

Anybody done this before? Any suggestions?

Finally, where do you get the Davies 1900-H (the engraved version I would 
think) in smaller quantities ( < 1000)?

/Isac



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From topybear at simpletech.hu  Mon Aug  6 11:26:29 2001
From: topybear at simpletech.hu (Jozsef Baksay)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 11:26:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ParallelSID
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806111249.00ad3168@10.0.0.2>

Has anybody know something about ParallelSID site? I've tried the 
http://www.buchi.de , but looks like it's dead.
Has anybody know mirror, saved schemo&prog...

Thx!

Topy



From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Mon Aug  6 12:17:14 2001
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:17:14 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] ParallelSID
Message-ID: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C7882@hati.kapsch.co.at>

>Has anybody know something about ParallelSID site? I've tried the 
>http://www.buchi.de , but looks like it's dead.
>Has anybody know mirror, saved schemo&prog...

The site is alive! No problem here.
I could send you all the files from the SID-Parallel zipped if you want.

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: www.ullrich.at.tt , http://come.to/ullrich
                   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
   .oooO           Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   (   )   Oooo.   KAPSCH AG / ECCN Control Systems    Vienna / Austria
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/



From grichter at asapnet.net  Mon Aug  6 14:19:38 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:19:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
In-Reply-To: <fc.000f4924005a218f000f4924005a218f.5a2192@mkv.mh.se>
Message-ID: <119A3.217E1%grichter@asapnet.net>

Come on guys, it's a hot-rodded Mini-Moog, you have already heard it a 1000
times!

> 
> Still no samples
> 

The thing people forget is the 10% per year inflation the US had for 10
years. Todays US dollar is only worth 1/2 of what a 1970's dollar was worth.
So the 1970s $1995 list price is equivalent to $3990 list today for the
original Minimoog.




From grichter at asapnet.net  Mon Aug  6 14:20:19 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:20:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Need Some Advice (blacet/wiard mini-wave)
In-Reply-To: <3B61B17C.9B67EEFD@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <11759.217E0%grichter@asapnet.net>

Hello All,

Just as a follow up, John discovered a missing trace on the new Mini-Wave PC
board. This left a CMOS input floating and, under some circumstances, would
shut off the "start conversion" clock to the wave and bank A/Ds.

The problem is now know and being corrected.

The fact that John found this subtle problem so rapidly and has responded so
well, shows the high quality of the company he is running.


It is not how you slip that counts, but how you recover. - Vince Lombardi


> 
> while we're on the subject possibly someone could give some help with my
> blacet/wiard mini wave.  i built the thing in a couple hours, everything
> looked great, best looking soldering i've done yet methought.  yet when
> i powered it up the knobs don't seem to change the waves or banks.  i
> wrote john blacet but haven't heard from him and imagine he's probably
> buried trying to get the module out.
> 




From grichter at asapnet.net  Mon Aug  6 14:27:49 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:27:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
In-Reply-To: <200108060352.UAA01706@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <11D54.217E2%grichter@asapnet.net>

Don't forget that a contra-bass clarinet is $12,000 and orchestral grade
flutes can go to $6000. Master grade shakuhachis sell for $12,000.

Electronic instruments are, by comparison, something of a bargin. Of course
professional symphony players just finance their instruments as part of
their careers. It's harder for us when we never get paid to play, huh!

It is also interesting how people routinely pay $3000 for a Snowmobile or
Jet Ski, which is only gets used a few days a year, but freak over the cost
of musical instruments that may be played far more often and in every
season.

> 
> Harumph!  You're not paying for a set of features, you're paying for a
> Musical Instrument.  Many folks would gladly hand over twice that for
> a limited edition Stratocaster with Leo's signature on it.
> 
> -- Don




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Mon Aug  6 14:39:08 2001
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:39:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] buchla knobs
References: <F172R881Np7vXee4fDG00008cdd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B6E8FEC.63C8088B@addcom.de>

buy them from Radio Shack online.

$80 per 100

Isac Jensen wrote:

> >in 1000 pieces. The Serge uses Davies 1900-H. These are all hot molded
> >phenolic resin.
> >
> >Please buy all the 1900-H you can, so they will keep making them!
> >
>
> I once bought 100 pieces from Mouser, thinking that these would be the ones
> used by Serge. Upon receiving the knobs I realised that they diddn't have
> the white top engraving/marking, making them almost useless for my project.
>
> I was thinking about using a Dremel tool to do the engraving myself, adding
> white paint as a finish.
>
> Anybody done this before? Any suggestions?
>
> Finally, where do you get the Davies 1900-H (the engraved version I would
> think) in smaller quantities ( < 1000)?
>
> /Isac
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--
mark verbos

"if you want something done right, build it yourself."

www.simple-answer.com

watch out for...
on my label SIMPLE ANSWER "White Enamel" Simple Answer 005 out now,
distributed by Integrale, UK




From mcphive at corrupt.net  Mon Aug  6 16:26:32 2001
From: mcphive at corrupt.net (andy)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:26:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] exar chips (xr2209, xr2212)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108061024450.23181-100000@washington.corrupt.net>


	I hear there is an old schematic (1983 / polyphony / craig
anderton) for making a VCLFO out of an XR2209 or XR2212... anyone have
schematics for using these as LFOs? i know they have horrible linearity,
but I am looking to make one (or several) simple VCLFOs...

	thanks,
	andy



From prototek at optonline.net  Mon Aug  6 17:49:10 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 11:49:10 -0400
Subject: AW: [sdiy] ParallelSID
In-Reply-To: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C7882@hati.kapsch.co.at>
Message-ID: <B79434B6.81DA%prototek@optonline.net>

on 8/6/01 6:17 AM, Ullrich Peter at Ullrich at kapsch.net wrote:

>> Has anybody know something about ParallelSID site? I've tried the
>> http://www.buchi.de , but looks like it's dead.
>> Has anybody know mirror, saved schemo&prog...
> 
> The site is alive! No problem here.
> I could send you all the files from the SID-Parallel zipped if you want.
> 
   Wheeew! Thats sick! The SID stuff you did is wild. Do you have any
soundbites? Do you think it will ever be possible for you to code an
on-screen editor for the Elektron Sidstation? Imagine being able to sequence
each of the 3 voices individually!? Wow.

                           -Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Aug  6 18:02:41 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:02:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] exar chips (xr2209, xr2212)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108061024450.23181-100000@washington.corrupt.net>
Message-ID: <3B6EBFA1.9B82230C@silcom.com>

    I can scan it, if nobody else can.  If you can narrow down the exact
issue, that would help....otherwise, I will have to look through each
issue....and, I might end up reading them.... :-)

    -Jim

andy wrote:

>         I hear there is an old schematic (1983 / polyphony / craig
> anderton) for making a VCLFO out of an XR2209 or XR2212... anyone have
> schematics for using these as LFOs? i know they have horrible linearity,
> but I am looking to make one (or several) simple VCLFOs...
>
>         thanks,
>         andy



From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Mon Aug  6 18:03:00 2001
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:03:00 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] exar chips (xr2209, xr2212)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108061024450.23181-100000@washington.corrup
 t.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010806090300.018a0b9c@popserv.ucop.edu>

At 10:26 AM 8/6/01 -0400, you wrote:
>
>	I hear there is an old schematic (1983 / polyphony / craig
>anderton) for making a VCLFO out of an XR2209 or XR2212... anyone have
>schematics for using these as LFOs? i know they have horrible linearity,
>but I am looking to make one (or several) simple VCLFOs...
>
>	thanks,
>	andy
>

I've got a scan of the article; it's two GIF files -- can send them to you,
if you like.

It was the 2209, and I built it a LONG time ago -- seem to recall it was
kind of tricky to calibrate, but worked fine afterwards.

~G


From schwich at qwest.net  Mon Aug  6 20:34:46 2001
From: schwich at qwest.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:34:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Filter Q Scale?
Message-ID: <OJEHIEGGNPIJDNGJANPAKEBBCCAA.schwich@qwest.net>

Hello DIYers,

A lot of filter designs have 'static Q' and I'll be looking into adding VC Q
to some designs with other modifications.  From looking at various
schematics I've noticed that there are usually one of three types of pots in
the feedback loop for Q. There are linear, log and reverse log pots
depending on the design.

So here are some questions:

What feedback scale provides the most useful Q control?

Will the type of scale vary with different filter types?

Are there any words of advice on this?

Thanks in advance.
Jay



From grichter at asapnet.net  Mon Aug  6 20:49:51 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 13:49:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] buchla knobs
In-Reply-To: <3B6E8FEC.63C8088B@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <B79450FF.217E4%grichter@asapnet.net>

The Radio-Shack part number is 900-2553

Thanks for tip Mark!
> 
> buy them from Radio Shack online.
> 
> $80 per 100
> 
> Isac Jensen wrote:
> 
>>> in 1000 pieces. The Serge uses Davies 1900-H. These are all hot molded
>>> phenolic resin.
>>> 
>>> Please buy all the 1900-H you can, so they will keep making them!
>>> 
>> 
>> I once bought 100 pieces from Mouser, thinking that these would be the ones
>> used by Serge. Upon receiving the knobs I realised that they diddn't have
>> the white top engraving/marking, making them almost useless for my project.
>> 
>> I was thinking about using a Dremel tool to do the engraving myself, adding
>> white paint as a finish.
>> 
>> Anybody done this before? Any suggestions?
>> 
>> Finally, where do you get the Davies 1900-H (the engraved version I would
>> think) in smaller quantities ( < 1000)?
>> 
>> /Isac
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> --
> mark verbos
> 
> "if you want something done right, build it yourself."
> 
> www.simple-answer.com
> 
> watch out for...
> on my label SIMPLE ANSWER "White Enamel" Simple Answer 005 out now,
> distributed by Integrale, UK
> 
> 
> 
> 




From blacet at blacet.com  Mon Aug  6 21:53:59 2001
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:53:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Need Some Advice (blacet/wiard mini-wave)
References: <11759.217E0%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <3B6EF5D6.1270F249@blacet.com>

We sent out notification and corrective action to everyone on our Blacet
mailing list and the MOTM list.

I'm sorry if we missed some customers. Please be sure to get your e-mail
address on our mailing list server to receive prompt notification of
important Blacet news.

The fix for the Mini-Wave is to connect pin 5 of U6 to +5V. The closest
point to do this is at U6 pin 1. If you bought an assembled module, we
can make this modification here.

MWs currently being shipped have been modified.
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Mon Aug  6 23:58:27 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:58:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DAVID HALLIDAY
Message-ID: <029301c11ec2$ecdbc8c0$e0157bd5@paul>

Dear all,

 Im trying to contact a list member who has some chips for me, Ive not been
able to conatct him for 2 months..
Can anyone tell me if he is still on this list?

  Many Thanks
Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Tue Aug  7 00:11:10 2001
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 00:11:10 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks... my synth is done!
In-Reply-To: <20010806065020.38591.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010807001110.00e9f430@mailout.uni-bonn.de>


Very nice!

Cheers,
 Ren?

At 23:50 05.08.01 -0700, Mark Melvin wrote:
>Well, I finished my first synth project and I wanted
>to take the time to give sincere thanks to those on
>this list that helped me so much... 
>Magnus, Harry, Rene, Patchell, Paul, Ingo, etc.
>I truly enjoyed the experience, and I learned so much.
>Plus... now I have a modular synth!
>
>Because everyone hates attachments I threw some pics
>on geocities for anyone who would like to see.
>
>http://www.geocities.com/mtmelvin/Synth.html
>
>Thanks again guys!  This list is awesome.
>
>-Mark
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From obiscygma at mediaone.net  Tue Aug  7 00:20:21 2001
From: obiscygma at mediaone.net (o b i s : c y g m a)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:20:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] paging Gene Stopp
References: <029301c11ec2$ecdbc8c0$e0157bd5@paul>
Message-ID: <0f0401c11ec5$ff15e4a0$ed0cb70a@cygma>

Is Gene around? I've sent him a couple emails last week and have not received
a response. Has he recently changed addresses?

Gene, if you're out there, please respond.

Thanks.
  obis cygma



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug  7 01:12:47 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:12:47 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <11D54.217E2%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <001701c11ecd$4ee453c0$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>; <cyborgzero at home.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 1904 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!


> Don't forget that a contra-bass clarinet is $12,000 and orchestral grade
> flutes can go to $6000. Master grade shakuhachis sell for $12,000.

A new Lion & Healy will set you back a cool $39,000. Not to mention how much
fun they are to transport.



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug  7 01:20:14 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:20:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks... my synth is done!
References: <B793C3CB.81B3%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <003301c11ece$5983f140$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Re: [sdiy] Thanks... my synth is done!Excellent job! Well organized and tidy.


----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Prototek 
  To: Mark Melvin ; Synth DIY List 
  Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 12:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [sdiy] Thanks... my synth is done!


  on 8/6/01 2:50 AM, Mark Melvin at mtmelvin at yahoo.com wrote:

  > Well, I finished my first synth project and I wanted
  > to take the time to give sincere thanks to those on
  > this list that helped me so much... 
  > Magnus, Harry, Rene, Patchell, Paul, Ingo, etc.
  > I truly enjoyed the experience, and I learned so much.
  > Plus... now I have a modular synth!
  > 
  > Because everyone hates attachments I threw some pics
  > on geocities for anyone who would like to see.
  > 
  > http://www.geocities.com/mtmelvin/Synth.html
  > 
  > Thanks again guys!  This list is awesome.
  > 
  > -Mark

     Nice job. Can we hear it?? :)
  ------
  "By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
  Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From 104065.2340 at compuserve.com  Tue Aug  7 01:47:23 2001
From: 104065.2340 at compuserve.com (Terry Michaels)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:47:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
Message-ID: <200108061947_MC3-DBA9-FB10@compuserve.com>

Message text written by INTERNET:grichter at asapnet.net
> 
Don't forget that a contra-bass clarinet is $12,000 and orchestral grade
flutes can go to $6000. Master grade shakuhachis sell for $12,000.<

Try pricing a Steinway grand piano.  

Terry Michaels


From gene at ixiacom.com  Tue Aug  7 02:11:24 2001
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:11:24 -0700 
Subject: [sdiy] paging Gene Stopp
Message-ID: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8ABAC6F72@racerx.ixiacom.com>

Yes - I'm here. Swamped at work. The company I work for has become extremely
successful, and I'm a support engineer :(

I do still have ASM-1's!!! I've got several responses I owe to people, and
some documentation I need to print out and mail... all I can say is bear
with me. Sorry everybody! Out of town today, back Wednesday (see what I
mean?)

Best Regards,

- Gene


-----Original Message-----
From: o b i s : c y g m a [mailto:obiscygma at mediaone.net]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:20 PM
To: Synth DIY LIST
Subject: [sdiy] paging Gene Stopp


Is Gene around? I've sent him a couple emails last week and have not
received
a response. Has he recently changed addresses?

Gene, if you're out there, please respond.

Thanks.
  obis cygma


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Tue Aug  7 03:12:20 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 03:12:20 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] sucess stories :)
In-Reply-To: <000901c1187d$61286360$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>
References: <000901c1187d$61286360$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>
Message-ID: <20010807031220H.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Nils Pipenbrinck" <np at inverse-entertainment.de>
Subject: [sdiy] sucess stories :)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 00:25:32 +0200

> Hi folks,

Hi Nils,

Please allow me to toss in some comments...

> I spent the weekend building my asm-1 vco.. Of cause I didn't oscillated at
> first (but turned one of the opamps into a cloud of smoke). Anyways.. after
> reading the diy-list archive archive I found everything to fix it.

Ah, you got some fresh grey smoke in your lab...  ;)

> Just in case someone is going to build the asm-1 vco and is lurking on the
> list here are a couple of hints:
> 
> The LM311 voltage comparator has a pin called "ground". (that's pin 1). Even
> if it's called ground it should be connected to -15V to work properly. It's
> also a good idea to connect pin 5 and 6 (balance and strobe).

The VCO schematic has the flaw that I was too lazy to cook up a
propper symbol for the LM311. This causes some confusion unless you
have a sufficient hunch of electronics, the LM311 datasheet AND spend
some time pondering over the problem. Bug me like hell and I just
might fix it. The thing is that it is not just opening up the CAD
tool. I have to rehack some Postscript code as well as investigate a
property I have not tried out before in my postscripthacked schematics.

> The 18pF cap behind the LM311 is somewhat critical. I think it depends on
> the Fet used, but for me the fet didn't discharged the integrator-cap. I
> replaced the tiny 18pF with a 47pF. That fixed the problem.

Indeed. It forms a time-constant to ensure propper length of reset
time. If this time gets too low, it fails to empty the integrator-cap.

I haven't spent the quality time on that time constant issue, but this
is IMHO one of the single biggest troubles in getting the VCO started.

> Also, it's a rather good idea not to solder the expensive MAT-02 into the
> board when you test it. Next time I'll first use two 2N3904 and replace them
> when the vco is working. (I learned that the hard way).

What? Did you blow the MAT-02????

> Bye,
>     Nils
>     (now a proud owner of his first selfmade vco)

Good to hear Nils! Enjoy!

Cheers,
Magnus - one of those annoying ASM-1 guys





From cfmd at swipnet.se  Tue Aug  7 03:42:12 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 03:42:12 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] paging Gene Stopp
In-Reply-To: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8ABAC6F72@racerx.ixiacom.com>
References: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8ABAC6F72@racerx.ixiacom.com>
Message-ID: <20010807034212Q.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Gene Stopp <gene at ixiacom.com>
Subject: RE: [sdiy] paging Gene Stopp
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:11:24 -0700 

Hi Gene!

> Yes - I'm here. Swamped at work. The company I work for has become extremely
> successful, and I'm a support engineer :(

Yeah... the company I work for have a box from the place where Gene
works. Now I just have to mess it up enought for them to send Gene to
me... ;O)

Hmm... never thought of that one... Hmm... maybe a field upgrade is
just what we need? ;O)

> I do still have ASM-1's!!!

GREAT! I just love to hear those words! ;O)

> I've got several responses I owe to people, and
> some documentation I need to print out and mail... all I can say is bear
> with me. Sorry everybody! Out of town today, back Wednesday (see what I
> mean?)

People keep asking me. Just being home from one and a half week in my
summerhouse I naturally got a few emails.

Now, is it your Ixia address people should send emails to or?

Cheers,
Magnus...



From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue Aug  7 04:52:18 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 04:52:18 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <200108061947_MC3-DBA9-FB10@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c11eeb$f90b4de0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Seems to make $3000 for a moog synth even more unrealistic over the top to
me.
The acoustic instruments are in a completely different ballpark.
But hey, if pp wana pay the money, why not.
IMHO The sad thing is the price of the Voyager makes from a quite nice
instrument a mere collectors item :(

Ok, this is blasphemy, I have to do 10 "ave minimoog"s and 12 "our Bob"s.

Theo


From: Terry Michaels <104065.2340 at compuserve.com>

> Message text written by INTERNET:grichter at asapnet.net
> >
> Don't forget that a contra-bass clarinet is $12,000 and orchestral grade
> flutes can go to $6000. Master grade shakuhachis sell for $12,000.<
>
> Try pricing a Steinway grand piano.
>
> Terry Michaels



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Aug  7 04:55:02 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:55:02 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
References: <11D54.217E2%grichter@asapnet.net> <001701c11ecd$4ee453c0$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <3B6F5885.3157F0EA@prodigy.net>

Fun to transport...

A Lion and (Austin) Healy ??? Couldn't the lion ride in the back ???

H^) harry  (ok i'm sick i admit it...)

John L Marshall wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
> To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>; <cyborgzero at home.com>
> Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Friday, January 01, 1904 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
>
> > Don't forget that a contra-bass clarinet is $12,000 and orchestral grade
> > flutes can go to $6000. Master grade shakuhachis sell for $12,000.
>
> A new Lion & Healy will set you back a cool $39,000. Not to mention how much
> fun they are to transport.



From gluesniffinghunchback at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 05:03:22 2001
From: gluesniffinghunchback at yahoo.com (Glue Sniff)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:03:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Phonetic Speech generation
In-Reply-To: <l03110704b77fd8b6bf48@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <20010807030322.37928.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >( yes, beleive it or not this is part of a synth
> project I'm cooking )
> Believe it or not, that's what got me into synths.
> It took years before I considered electronic sounds
> that only talk
> electrish as expressive (mainly due to an interface
> issue, it seems)
> Nowadays I'm so much into electronic sounds, that
> when I hear
> a police sirene and a truck in reverse gear, I get
> so taken away,
> that I open my microwave door and switch it on, dial
> a phone number
> I know will be occupied, and click with my mouse on
> places I shouldn't.
> Sinus kicks ass.
> 
> OK, back to your question.
> 
> >Has anyone run across schemetics or discussions on
> *old* phonetic speech
> >generation circuits?  Too many of what I've found
> are based on chips that
> >havent been made in years and all the newer stuff
> is digital and doesnt
> >have the sound I want.  Even hints pointing at
> older textbooks would be
> >good.
> 
> http://www.koncon.nl/220/SOmain.html
> see -> publications
> 
> 1.
> VOLTAGE CONTROL Diagrams and Circuitry (G.M.Koenig),
> 1974
> 
> 2.
> Stan TEMPELAARS
> Signal Processing, Speech and Music (in English)
> Swets & Zeitlinger, 1996
> ISBN 90-265-1481-6
> Cloth - NLG 155.00 / US$ 91.00
> 
> Both available via the Royal Conservatory in The
> Hague
> Follow the koncon link for instructions.
> 
> Koenig was one of the most talented technicians of
> Stochhausen.
> I used his VOSIMS a lot, exellent stuff.
> 
> Dave
> 
> ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
> Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
> geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
> webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
> -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
> 
> 
      I have a Votrax SC-01 speech synthisizer, (I
think thats the right#) that I bought at a local
thrift store. I realy have not found any thing
consructive to do with it yet.   anyway,  old speech
synthisizers are not hard to find and are pretty
cheap, (unless you are talking about a speak and
spell)  I use to have a bookmark that listed a bunch
of speech synthisizers but I seem to have thrown it
away.(sorry)  Atari had a few that went to their
computers as well.   you should do a search using
"votrax" or speech synthisizer.     keep an eye out,  
speech synths periodicaly show up on ebay and usualy
go for about 20$ us  (unless they are speak and spells
which are realy expensive).   If all you want is the
artificial speech sound, you might already own
somthing that does that.  Every Macintosh computer
since 1984 has the capability to speak.  these days
its part of the program "simple text"(the standard
ASCII prog that come with it) you just type what you
want it to say, than say speak all , or (comand J)
there is a huge list of voices it can use, from high
quality ones with english accents to low quality
classic ones (like speak and spell)
good luck....     and if you come across anything cool
to do with a Votrax sc-01, or you want mine, email me
or post to the sdiy list.      bye.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Tue Aug  7 08:05:27 2001
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:05:27 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: [sdiy] ParallelSID
Message-ID: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C7895@hati.kapsch.co.at>

Hallo!

>>> Has anybody know something about ParallelSID site? I've tried the 
>>> http://www.buchi.de , but looks like it's dead.
>>> Has anybody know mirror, saved schemo&prog...
>> 
>> The site is alive! No problem here.
>> I could send you all the files from the SID-Parallel zipped if you
want.
>> 
>   Wheeew! Thats sick! The SID stuff you did is wild. 

I think you are wrong. Neither I nor anybody on this list made this
Parallel-SID...

>Do you have any soundbites? Do you think it will ever be possible for
you to 
>code an on-screen editor for the Elektron Sidstation? Imagine being
able to 
>sequence >each of the 3 voices individually!? Wow.

So no idea on that. Of course it would be possible. 
My opinion as a C64 user a few years ago is that it is not worth.
Just junk sounds and low quality sample playing things...
Like a SN76477 synthesizer...


Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: www.ullrich.at.tt , http://come.to/ullrich
                   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
   .oooO           Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   (   )   Oooo.   KAPSCH AG / ECCN Control Systems    Vienna / Austria
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/




From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Tue Aug  7 09:37:01 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:37:01 +0200 
Subject: AW: [sdiy] minimoog Voyager !!!!!
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AEF8D@exchange1.intermetall.de>

I just got by a violin/string instrument repair shop
and looked into the adds:

used cello: EUR 30000
used violin: EUR 20000

and so on. Historic instruments. The older, the higher the price.
If you are a music teacher, you can write off all your musical
instruments (electronic or not) in your anual tax declaration.
(this applies to Germany, we can consider tax as beeing trivial,
as it has basically no meaning and is defined by humans.
I recently heared about fake theses, i.e. illegal aquired 
academic degrees (Dr.). Wow, I thought, how can they do this?
I mean, how do they get through with it? The next sentence
made it clear: applies only to law, economic , yes and 
tax "science". hahahahahahahahah...., oh well, welcome
in Dilbert land {www.dilbert.com} , it's all true...)

I know someone who has bought EUR 100000 worth of electronic gear, of
course for his own pleasure. Of course, he never used a single piece
for teaching. But got the tax write off, which basically means
40% or 50% cut off the price (due to the nonlinear tax
table the last pennys you earn get taxed up to 50%,
so a small write off here and then of about EUR 3000 or so
will be in that nonlinear area).

And then these guys complain about their "low" wages,
compared to me as engineer.
Not to forget the studio he build (also write off as
"means" necessary for teaching).
And about 12 weeks vacation each year. 12 weeks, this is
so boring, we want just 2.....

m.c.

> Don't forget that a contra-bass clarinet is $12,000 and 
> orchestral grade
> flutes can go to $6000. Master grade shakuhachis sell for $12,000.
> 


From prototek at optonline.net  Tue Aug  7 10:34:28 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 04:34:28 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] table-topping a Pro-One
Message-ID: <B7952053.822A%prototek@optonline.net>

   My Pro-One is starting to exhibit the classic "uneven/loose key
syndrome." Functionally it doesnt make a difference to me because I trigger
it externally, but aesthetics are also an issue for me.
   I want to know if anyone has ever heard of chopping off the keyboard and
either using the Pro as a rack mount or table top unit. I'm leaning towards
the table top method. Got any ideas?

                       -Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Tue Aug  7 17:34:26 2001
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 08:34:26 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] table-topping a Pro-One
In-Reply-To: <B7952053.822A%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010807083426.0072c4ec@popserv.ucop.edu>

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From a0284520 at addcom.de  Tue Aug  7 18:14:24 2001
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:14:24 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 16k dynamic RAM's  type '4116'  and  '5290' 
Message-ID: <3B7013E1.5CF3AEE0@addcom.de>

Does anybody know where to get 16k dynamic RAM's  type '4116'  and
'5290' ?

A friend needs these to fix an old Eventide Harmonizer.


--
mark verbos

"if you want something done right, build it yourself."

www.simple-answer.com

watch out for...
on my label SIMPLE ANSWER "White Enamel" Simple Answer 005 out now,
distributed by Integrale, UK




From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Tue Aug  7 19:49:34 2001
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:49:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 16k dynamic RAM's  type '4116'  and  '5290' 
In-Reply-To: <3B7013E1.5CF3AEE0@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010807104934.0072df64@popserv.ucop.edu>

The 4116 is available from Jameco  -- .69 each.


At 06:14 PM 8/7/01 +0200, you wrote:
>Does anybody know where to get 16k dynamic RAM's  type '4116'  and
>'5290' ?
>
>A friend needs these to fix an old Eventide Harmonizer.
>
>
>--
>mark verbos
>
>"if you want something done right, build it yourself."
>
>www.simple-answer.com
>
>watch out for...
>on my label SIMPLE ANSWER "White Enamel" Simple Answer 005 out now,
>distributed by Integrale, UK
>
>
>
>


From CasioRZ1 at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 20:26:18 2001
From: CasioRZ1 at aol.com (CasioRZ1 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:26:18 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe synth-diy
Message-ID: <f9.db64fc4.28a18cca@aol.com>

unsubscribe synth-diy


From buchi at takeonetech.de  Tue Aug  7 20:41:21 2001
From: buchi at takeonetech.de (Michael Buchstaller)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:41:21 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ParallelSID
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806111249.00ad3168@10.0.0.2>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806111249.00ad3168@10.0.0.2>
Message-ID: <pfd0nt43ftpk22vgasrp1fuk1gmjvkgfsg@4ax.com>

>Has anybody know something about ParallelSID site? I've tried the 
>http://www.buchi.de , but looks like it's dead.

Oh... I just tried it and it worked.

>Has anybody know mirror, saved schemo&prog...

If anybody is still having problems with that site, please tell me so i can fix it.


-Michael Buchstaller


From buchi at takeonetech.de  Tue Aug  7 20:52:43 2001
From: buchi at takeonetech.de (Michael Buchstaller)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:52:43 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] ParallelSID
In-Reply-To: <B79434B6.81DA%prototek@optonline.net>
References: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C7882@hati.kapsch.co.at> <B79434B6.81DA%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <5rd0ntc76cisn3qd0vmblbepq89i3etka5@4ax.com>

>   Wheeew! Thats sick! The SID stuff you did is wild. Do you have any
>soundbites?

No, i always thought that everybody knows how the SID chip sounds.
But if more people are *really* interested, i could add some sound samples
to the MonoVoice page.

>Do you think it will ever be possible for you to code an
>on-screen editor for the Elektron Sidstation? Imagine being able to sequence
>each of the 3 voices individually!? Wow.

I do not know if this is possible. Usually i access the SID directly with it?s registers,
and i have never had the chance to use a sidstation.

But another "strange" idea: My MonoVoice has a more or less standard MIDI command
set (Note on/off, pitchbend, some controller changes to set different parameters)
Does anybody feel that it would be cool to add a "direct register write" mode so one could
immediately write into the SID?s registers via MIDI ? This would enable people to write their
own Sequencers/trackers and to do all the strangest things with the sound chip....


-Michael Buchstaller


From kmartinez at bency.com  Wed Aug  8 01:42:22 2001
From: kmartinez at bency.com (Kenneth Martinez)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:42:22 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] table-topping a Pro-One
References: <B7952053.822A%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3B707CDE.54985613@bency.com>

Installing the new bushings that come in the keyboard rebuild kit from

  http://home.netcom.com/~arcsound/

fixed that unevenness in mine...now if I could just get those j-wires to
stay clean ;-)


Prototek wrote:

>    My Pro-One is starting to exhibit the classic "uneven/loose key
> syndrome." Functionally it doesnt make a difference to me because I
> trigger it externally, but aesthetics are also an issue for me.
>    I want to know if anyone has ever heard of chopping off the
> keyboard and either using the Pro as a rack mount or table top unit.
> I'm leaning towards the table top method. Got any ideas?
>
>                        -Proto



From mcphive at corrupt.net  Wed Aug  8 01:55:59 2001
From: mcphive at corrupt.net (andy)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:55:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] psycho lfo (ken s.)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108071954540.9409-100000@washington.corrupt.net>


	SUCCESS!!

	with about $5 of parts i finally built the psycho lfo design by
Ken Stone and it works great. cheers to ken for making cheap PCB's!! (next
up on the plate: his sub-oscillator)

	andy



From thom_s4 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  8 03:09:48 2001
From: thom_s4 at hotmail.com (Scott Deyo)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:09:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Phonetic Speech generation
Message-ID: <F153UwWpSWerOc0Ne0P0000144d@hotmail.com>


A fun (but not sdiy) program is SayIt at analogx.com. There are four 
parameters to tweak that can get you anything from "I'm the operator of my 
pocket calculator" to lo-fi bit-mangled beats, which are very useful 
sampled. Very fresh, like Dougie. They have some other cool stuff there too.

Scott

----Original Message Follows----
From: J G Wong <adaaxs at erols.com>
Reply-To: adaaxs at erols.com
To: Glue Sniff <gluesniffinghunchback at yahoo.com>
CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Phonetic Speech generation
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:40:56 -0500

I have an echo 2 pc and 2 crickets(Mac)  available as well as a longcard
dectalk. I probably have some others (get in touch) all of these devices
are digital and you can get really good results with simple programming
strings. The early phoneme chips are useless until assembled into a
synth configuration and without code . The most common and useful ones
are access devices for the Blind.  At the moment SSIL device drivers are
popular so hardware synths are available cheap, but , the cheaper the
crappier. I use an outboard Dectalk DTC01 and a program called vocal
eyes and a dec utitily in a dos window.  Cheap and efective Pink Floyd
and Radiohead used this device with the default voice( Perfect Paul)

What you are looking for is the tables with the command strings for the
synths.which are chip sets with a preamp really.  the tables are pretty
easily available on the net from blind users depending on the device.

I work around this stuff all day so contact me for coherent info (unlike
this screed)

G. Wong

Glue Sniff wrote:
 >
 > --- Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl> wrote:
 > > >( yes, beleive it or not this is part of a synth
 > > project I'm cooking )
 > > Believe it or not, that's what got me into synths.
 > > It took years before I considered electronic sounds
 > > that only talk
 > > electrish as expressive (mainly due to an interface
 > > issue, it seems)
 > > Nowadays I'm so much into electronic sounds, that
 > > when I hear
 > > a police sirene and a truck in reverse gear, I get
 > > so taken away,
 > > that I open my microwave door and switch it on, dial
 > > a phone number
 > > I know will be occupied, and click with my mouse on
 > > places I shouldn't.
 > > Sinus kicks ass.
 > >
 > > OK, back to your question.
 > >
 > > >Has anyone run across schemetics or discussions on
 > > *old* phonetic speech
 > > >generation circuits?  Too many of what I've found
 > > are based on chips that
 > > >havent been made in years and all the newer stuff
 > > is digital and doesnt
 > > >have the sound I want.  Even hints pointing at
 > > older textbooks would be
 > > >good.
 > >
 > > http://www.koncon.nl/220/SOmain.html
 > > see -> publications
 > >
 > > 1.
 > > VOLTAGE CONTROL Diagrams and Circuitry (G.M.Koenig),
 > > 1974
 > >
 > > 2.
 > > Stan TEMPELAARS
 > > Signal Processing, Speech and Music (in English)
 > > Swets & Zeitlinger, 1996
 > > ISBN 90-265-1481-6
 > > Cloth - NLG 155.00 / US$ 91.00
 > >
 > > Both available via the Royal Conservatory in The
 > > Hague
 > > Follow the koncon link for instructions.
 > >
 > > Koenig was one of the most talented technicians of
 > > Stochhausen.
 > > I used his VOSIMS a lot, exellent stuff.
 > >
 > > Dave
 > >
 > > ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
 > > Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
 > > geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
 > > webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
 > > -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
 > >
 > >
 >       I have a Votrax SC-01 speech synthisizer, (I
 > think thats the right#) that I bought at a local
 > thrift store. I realy have not found any thing
 > consructive to do with it yet.   anyway,  old speech
 > synthisizers are not hard to find and are pretty
 > cheap, (unless you are talking about a speak and
 > spell)  I use to have a bookmark that listed a bunch
 > of speech synthisizers but I seem to have thrown it
 > away.(sorry)  Atari had a few that went to their
 > computers as well.   you should do a search using
 > "votrax" or speech synthisizer.     keep an eye out,
 > speech synths periodicaly show up on ebay and usualy
 > go for about 20$ us  (unless they are speak and spells
 > which are realy expensive).   If all you want is the
 > artificial speech sound, you might already own
 > somthing that does that.  Every Macintosh computer
 > since 1984 has the capability to speak.  these days
 > its part of the program "simple text"(the standard
 > ASCII prog that come with it) you just type what you
 > want it to say, than say speak all , or (comand J)
 > there is a huge list of voices it can use, from high
 > quality ones with english accents to low quality
 > classic ones (like speak and spell)
 > good luck....     and if you come across anything cool
 > to do with a Votrax sc-01, or you want mine, email me
 > or post to the sdiy list.      bye.
 >
 > __________________________________________________
 > Do You Yahoo!?
 > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
 > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From adaaxs at erols.com  Wed Aug  8 03:40:56 2001
From: adaaxs at erols.com (J G Wong)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:40:56 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Phonetic Speech generation
References: <20010807030322.37928.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B70989A.71E7834D@erols.com>

I have an echo 2 pc and 2 crickets(Mac)  available as well as a longcard
dectalk. I probably have some others (get in touch) all of these devices
are digital and you can get really good results with simple programming
strings. The early phoneme chips are useless until assembled into a
synth configuration and without code . The most common and useful ones
are access devices for the Blind.  At the moment SSIL device drivers are
popular so hardware synths are available cheap, but , the cheaper the
crappier. I use an outboard Dectalk DTC01 and a program called vocal
eyes and a dec utitily in a dos window.  Cheap and efective Pink Floyd
and Radiohead used this device with the default voice( Perfect Paul)

What you are looking for is the tables with the command strings for the
synths.which are chip sets with a preamp really.  the tables are pretty
easily available on the net from blind users depending on the device.

I work around this stuff all day so contact me for coherent info (unlike
this screed)

G. Wong

Glue Sniff wrote:
> 
> --- Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > >( yes, beleive it or not this is part of a synth
> > project I'm cooking )
> > Believe it or not, that's what got me into synths.
> > It took years before I considered electronic sounds
> > that only talk
> > electrish as expressive (mainly due to an interface
> > issue, it seems)
> > Nowadays I'm so much into electronic sounds, that
> > when I hear
> > a police sirene and a truck in reverse gear, I get
> > so taken away,
> > that I open my microwave door and switch it on, dial
> > a phone number
> > I know will be occupied, and click with my mouse on
> > places I shouldn't.
> > Sinus kicks ass.
> >
> > OK, back to your question.
> >
> > >Has anyone run across schemetics or discussions on
> > *old* phonetic speech
> > >generation circuits?  Too many of what I've found
> > are based on chips that
> > >havent been made in years and all the newer stuff
> > is digital and doesnt
> > >have the sound I want.  Even hints pointing at
> > older textbooks would be
> > >good.
> >
> > http://www.koncon.nl/220/SOmain.html
> > see -> publications
> >
> > 1.
> > VOLTAGE CONTROL Diagrams and Circuitry (G.M.Koenig),
> > 1974
> >
> > 2.
> > Stan TEMPELAARS
> > Signal Processing, Speech and Music (in English)
> > Swets & Zeitlinger, 1996
> > ISBN 90-265-1481-6
> > Cloth - NLG 155.00 / US$ 91.00
> >
> > Both available via the Royal Conservatory in The
> > Hague
> > Follow the koncon link for instructions.
> >
> > Koenig was one of the most talented technicians of
> > Stochhausen.
> > I used his VOSIMS a lot, exellent stuff.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
> > Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
> > geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
> > webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
> > -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
> >
> >
>       I have a Votrax SC-01 speech synthisizer, (I
> think thats the right#) that I bought at a local
> thrift store. I realy have not found any thing
> consructive to do with it yet.   anyway,  old speech
> synthisizers are not hard to find and are pretty
> cheap, (unless you are talking about a speak and
> spell)  I use to have a bookmark that listed a bunch
> of speech synthisizers but I seem to have thrown it
> away.(sorry)  Atari had a few that went to their
> computers as well.   you should do a search using
> "votrax" or speech synthisizer.     keep an eye out,
> speech synths periodicaly show up on ebay and usualy
> go for about 20$ us  (unless they are speak and spells
> which are realy expensive).   If all you want is the
> artificial speech sound, you might already own
> somthing that does that.  Every Macintosh computer
> since 1984 has the capability to speak.  these days
> its part of the program "simple text"(the standard
> ASCII prog that come with it) you just type what you
> want it to say, than say speak all , or (comand J)
> there is a huge list of voices it can use, from high
> quality ones with english accents to low quality
> classic ones (like speak and spell)
> good luck....     and if you come across anything cool
> to do with a Votrax sc-01, or you want mine, email me
> or post to the sdiy list.      bye.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From paul at amsect.net  Wed Aug  8 04:43:25 2001
From: paul at amsect.net (P McCord)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:43:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] UNSUBSCRIBE
Message-ID: <B796117D.980%paul@amsect.net>


Paul McCord 
EROOM 
(504)813-8597 
NOLA 

UNSUBSCRIBE



From paul at amsect.net  Wed Aug  8 04:44:41 2001
From: paul at amsect.net (P)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:44:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <B79611C9.983%paul@amsect.net>

unsubscribe



From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Aug  8 10:04:19 2001
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (Trevor Page)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:04:19 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
Subject: [sdiy] Roland DIN sync - pin 4 use?
Message-ID: <20010808080419.7929.qmail@fsmail.net>

Hi list, 

Does anyone actually use pin 4 on the Roland DIN sync24 interface? On some machines such as the MC202 it's used as a Continue trigger. On the TR808, it's used to send a Reset to Start signal. On my TB303, it's a Tap input. I suppose it's usually used as a Continue input, but I don't know. 

The reason I ask is because I'm including a Sync24 output from the MIDI section on my TR909 clone PCBs, and I'm 
wondering if I should bother implementing a Continue output together with the usual Start/Stop and Tempo. Would it be missed if it wasn't there? Otherwise I could use that spare cpu I/O line for something else. 

If you use a MIDI to Sync interface, what does it actually output on Pin 4? Seems to me that it's probably best not to bother with it at all, since different machines implement it in different ways.

Thanks all

Trev







____________________________________________________________
Freeserve - get your free ISP service including web-mail at:
www.freeserve.co.uk






From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Aug  8 11:26:14 2001
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (GothGeek Sysadmin)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 02:26:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] table-topping a Pro-One
In-Reply-To: <3B707CDE.54985613@bency.com>; from kmartinez@bency.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:42:22PM -0600
References: <B7952053.822A%prototek@optonline.net> <3B707CDE.54985613@bency.com>
Message-ID: <20010808022613.Q53127@moo.sysabend.org>

On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:42:22PM -0600, Kenneth Martinez wrote:
> Installing the new bushings that come in the keyboard rebuild kit from
> 
>   http://home.netcom.com/~arcsound/
> 
> fixed that unevenness in mine...now if I could just get those j-wires to
> stay clean ;-)

I just wanted to add that I did the same for my Minimoog and the difference
is almost unbelievable.  Both minimoogs I've had were clunky and loose... now
its quiet tight and much smoother.

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Aug  8 11:37:36 2001
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (GothGeek Sysadmin)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 02:37:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 2SK135
Message-ID: <20010808023736.R53127@moo.sysabend.org>

Does anyone have a good suggestion for an easily available replacement
for the 2SK135?  I have a power supply I'm rebuilding for an organ and it
has several in it 2 of which are bad. Of course no easy cross reference
has been found.   I know a company in the UK makes a direct replacement for
that part but I've had a hard time finding it in the US.

They are just being used in some simple regulator circuits.  One is 90vdc
the other is 75vdc at no more then 5 amps I'd estimate.

Thanks!

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From jhaible at t-online.de  Wed Aug  8 22:11:47 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 22:11:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Moog filter research
Message-ID: <001501c12046$5df19ec0$4ef39e3e@debitel.net>

Hi,

I spent the last couple of weekends doing some circuit analysis on Moog
filters. It's been some years since I built my last Moog-style filter
cascade.
My interest was clearly revived by the Minimoog Voyager's dual LPF
approach.

After some simulations (I posted) and after some experiments with two
different LPFs I decided to build a compact little dual Moog cascade
with shared controls and inputs plus Separation control. (I think the
Voyager's minimal user interface with just one extra knob for a dual
VCF is truely brilliant! Especially as you practically get the sound
of a single LPF when Separation is at zero, without any switching.)

So far the background. The interesting stuff begun when I wondered
which of the many Moog filters to choose. For some reason, I wanted
to try the old 904A filter. I'm quite sure that the Voyager doesn't use
this (think of a bulky switch to select 3 sets of 8 cpacitors ...) - and
that's where the Voyager influence ends. I was caught in doing an
in-depth analysis of the old modular 904A filter. And this produced
some surprising (at least to me) results.

I remember a thread about the Andromeda, Mike Peake speaking of
differences between various Moog filters. (You modelled the Andromeda's
VCF after the 904A, too, didn't you ?). I remember a question
of mine in another thread whether switching the range on a 904A
does just transpose the cutoff frequency or also alters the sound.
(Meanwhile I'm convinced that it *does* change the sound, but more
about it later.) And there's of course the general knowledge that
the differential amplifier after the filter cascade makes a difference.
This is often quoted on the list, and explains why later Moog
instruments generally sound quite different from the Minimoog
or Modular.

The pivot point is the loading of the ladder. A load resistance coupled
to the final ladder stage changes the frequency response. This is
neglectible
at high cutoff frequencies (where the ladder is low impedance), but
comes into play at low cutoff frequencies (where the ladder is high
impedance). This causes the reduction of loop gain, and thus the decrease
of resonance, at lower frequencies. But there are two different
ways the ladder can be loaded: A differential amplifier has a small
signal input resistance, and it has offset currents on both its inputs.
If we compare two filters with AC coupling in the differential amplifier,
the Minimoog VCF and the 904A, we see that the Mini has its AC coupling
right after the ladder and before the amp. The 904A has its first amp
stage (two emitter followers) DC coupled to the ladder, and then there is
an AC coupling to the second amp stage. Therefore the Mini VCF's
amp has a rather small dynamic input resistance, but no bias current
to load the ladder. The loading causes a decrease of Resonance at low
frequencies, but only down to a certain point: because the AC coupling
increases the input impedance of the differential amp at very low
frequencies.
The 904A's amp has a rather high input impedance (emitter followers
with no resistors from base to GND), but it draws a considerably
bias current. I simulated the circuit, based on typical beta values of the
transistors that were used, and I found that the bias current is in the
2uA range ! (There is no hint in the service manual that these transistors
would be selected for beta, so it would vary quite a bit from one 904A
to the next.)
What does this mean ? The uppermost stage of the ladder is fed an extra
4uA (2uA on each side) from the differential amplifier. This is added
to the normal control current thru the ladder. Whenever the control
current is high, these extra 4uA won't make a difference. But when
the control current is low, the pole of the upper stage is shifted
to a higher frequency then the remaining three !
So when is the effect of this most noticable ? Low currents means
low cutoff frequency. But that's not the whole story. You can get
the same cutoff frequency with a small capacitor and a small current,
or with a larger capacitor and larger current. (I assume that the rather
high leakage currents of early transistors was the reason for Moog
to use rather large capacitor values. Up to 1.2uF in the 904A, compared
to 10nF in the FET-buffered Moog Source.)
So my conclusion is that when you switch the range on a 904A
(which means switching between sets of capacitors in the ratio
of 1:4:16), you're switching the sound as well as the range. You
won't immediately notice, because the range switching dominates.
But I encourage you to make the following experiment:
(Actually, I'm asking for somebody to make these experiments
and share the results, as I don't have the real hardware here.)

==============================================
Experiment 1:

Switch the range of a 904A from 2 to 3, and apply a CV of -2V
to one of the inputs at the same time. Try it at various Resonance
and cutoff settings, and try to find a difference. The same
for Range 1 and 2, with a CV of +2V when Range 1 is set.
Is there a difference ? How big is the difference ? Is it more
prominent at low cutoff frequencies and high resonance settings ?
===============================================

Meanwhile, I have almost finished my version of the dual VCF.
Instead of switching capacitor banks, I used a trick: A quad voltage
controlled current source is used to create a variable bias current
for loading the ladder. This can either be switched together with
an ordinary cutoff transposing (+/-2V CV), or it can be applied
independently with a potentiometer. So far, I get the most convincing
results when I just emulate the capacitor switching, i.e. when I link
the bias current source to the transpose switch. The sound reminds
me of certain recordings which were positively made with a Modular,
and which cannot be reproduced with my Minimoog clone nor
Taurus clone. But this might as well be wishfull thinking, and so
I'd like to have this backed up by some more experiments from
experienced Moog Modular users (If somebody likes to do this):

==============================================
Experiment 2:

Set the Resonance to self oscillation at a rather high frequency
(2kHz) in Range 3. Don't just set it on the treshold of oscillation;
solid feedback is needed. Now reduce the cutoff frequency and
note when the oscillation stops. (If it doesn't stop, start with
less Resonance amount at 2kHz, but keep the same setting for
all measurements in this experiment.) Note the lowest frequency
that has self oscillation.
Do the same thing in Range 2 (do *not* change the resonance
potentiometer setting !), and note the lowest frequency pof self
oscillation for range 2.
Do the same thing for Range 1.

Repeat these 3 measurements with Resonance fully turned up
and note the 3 lowest oscillation frequencies.
===============================================

Switching the capacitors also means a limitation of the available
frequency range, because the current thru the ladder is limited.
I'm not speaking of the range of self oscillation here, just an
upper limit of cutoff requency dependig of the "Range" switch.

According to my simulations, Range 3 should go far into the
ultrasonic, Range 2 should still cover the whole audio band.
But Range 1 (wuth the 1.2uF caps) should be limited to
approximately 5 ... 8 kHz. If the results are right, this could not
be further increased with external CVs, either. If so, this
can cause a special effect when sweeped with an envelope
or a modulation oscillator, as the filter response would
follow a waveshaped (clipped) version of the modulation signal
when Range 1 is chosen. Of course this will make a huge
sonic difference with wide sweeps, whether resonance stays
prominent in the upper audio range or escapes into the ultrasonic.
Can ynybody confirm this?

===============================================
Experiment 3:

See how far the filter goes up in Range 1 setting. Use self oscillation,
and use internal and external CVs to push the theoretical cutoff
frequency up, and note at which frequency it's stuck in practice.
===============================================

So, this was a long mail, and I hope somebody found it interesting.
When somebody is interested enough to make my little experiments,
this would be even better. It's like to get confirmation, or correction,
for my findings. I don't own a Moog Modular, but I want to see how
close I can come with emulations. I would also be interested
if these thinks have been considered in other emulations (Andromeda.
Mike ? Any comments ?)

And finally:

=================================================
Experiment IV:
This is Kate's, of course. (;->)
=================================================

JH.







From jdarby at lplizard.com  Wed Aug  8 23:56:05 2001
From: jdarby at lplizard.com (Jon Darby)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:56:05 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C7882@hati.kapsch.co.at> <B79434B6.81DA%prototek@optonline.net> <5rd0ntc76cisn3qd0vmblbepq89i3etka5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c12054$ec6b9620$d836743f@lplizard.com>

Howdy, everyone!
    I was rereading the old Penfold book today where it was comparing modern
synthesis techniques to modern electronic organs. It mentioned the polyphony
is obtained from a single high frequency oscillation and divided down to the
appropriate frequency determined by the key pressed. My question is what
module would be required per key to divide off the frequency of the master
oscillator into the custom frequency before being mixed together to output?
What parts are involved, another oscillator that oscillates at a frequency
based on the frequency of the master? Hmmm, just curious how complex of a
circuit is required at each key. Thanks a ton.

Jon Darby



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Thu Aug  9 00:51:06 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:51:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C7882@hati.kapsch.co.at> <B79434B6.81DA%prototek@optonline.net> <5rd0ntc76cisn3qd0vmblbepq89i3etka5@4ax.com> <006b01c12054$ec6b9620$d836743f@lplizard.com>
Message-ID: <002201c1205c$9cb87960$1ccf7ad5@paul>

Jon,

>     I was rereading the old Penfold book today where it was comparing
modern
> synthesis techniques to modern electronic organs. It mentioned the
polyphony
> is obtained from a single high frequency oscillation and divided down to
the
> appropriate frequency determined by the key pressed. My question is what
> module would be required per key to divide off the frequency of the master
> oscillator into the custom frequency before being mixed together to
output?

if you do it that way, just a divide by two circuit (4013 has two of them).
There are some disadvantages..

> What parts are involved, another oscillator that oscillates at a frequency
> based on the frequency of the master? Hmmm, just curious how complex of a
> circuit is required at each key. Thanks a ton.

the top octave generator (TOG) needs to generate the top octave, ie 12
notes.
each of these is then fed into a seirs of divide by two chips (4024 has 12
stages , IIRC)
so with a TOG and 12 4024's you could have 13 octaves..
now heres the catch...
you need a VCF and VCA and EG for EACH key, yes , EACH key....
as each key is able to generate sound simply by pressing it you have
unlimited polyphoney (as many keys as your keyboard has).

Synth makers soon realised (back the early days) this would be far to big
and costly...
so they used (in the case of the prophet5) 5 oscillators, each could be
assigned a note and it would play it..
this meant you could have 5 notes playing at the same time , a MIRACLE at
the time...
you would only need five oscillators (ok so you need more than the other
mothed which had one) but you now only need 5 VCFs and 5 VCAs, much much
less electronics that the other method..
BUT you then had added complexity of voice assignment to contend with...

MOST synths now use the latter method, processors are cheap and fast now,
and 16note polyphonic assignment is easy enough to do. and most people only
have 10 fingers !

Hope this helps a little
Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From gene at ixiacom.com  Thu Aug  9 01:58:02 2001
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:58:02 -0700 
Subject: [sdiy] Moog filter research
Message-ID: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8ABAC6F88@racerx.ixiacom.com>

Funny - I have just recently been thinking a lot about getting the same
sounds as some of the older Moog recordings (like S.O.B. or Tomita's
Snowflakes). I'm usually pretty good about duplicating modular sounds on
recordings - for example I've been successful getting some of the klangorous
noises on side 2 of The Planets by Tomita - much ring modulator and VCO FM
and mod depth VCA's. When I get the sound, it jumps out at me quite strongly
as I get the impression that the recording is being played. But I've had
some trouble with the fairly simple brass-like melody sounds, just a
"normal" patch with some attack and decay on a lowpass to get a nice "wow"
sound. By trouble I mean it never jumps out at me - there's something
missing. If I were to be able to hit the right sound, I would smile and say
"ahhhhh, that's it!" but it never happens.

Maybe it's the filter? I was thinking maybe that I need some PWM, with a
certain depth and rate, to provide the correct timbral foundation upon which
the filter can act, but no, Moog 901's didn't have PWM. Unison VCO's is
almost the same thing, but again, maybe it's the filter? Maybe I've been
using the wrong range switch setting?

I can try this someday, can't really predict when, but I've been meaning to
fire up the old moog sometime soon...

Best Regards,

- Gene

Gene Stopp
Senior Support Engineer
Ixia

ph. USA 818-871-1800 x.3214
fax USA 818-871-1805


-----Original Message-----
From: jhaible at t-online.de [mailto:jhaible at t-online.de]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 1:12 PM
To: analogue
Cc: diy
Subject: [sdiy] Moog filter research


Hi,

I spent the last couple of weekends doing some circuit analysis on Moog
filters. It's been some years since I built my last Moog-style filter
cascade.
My interest was clearly revived by the Minimoog Voyager's dual LPF
approach.
.
.
.



From thomas at roundhouse.se  Thu Aug  9 02:17:53 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 02:17:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Test
Message-ID: <v04220800b797871ff6cf@[213.112.172.139]>

Test


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Thu Aug  9 03:48:50 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:48:50 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Test
In-Reply-To: <v04220800b797871ff6cf@[213.112.172.139]>
References: <v04220800b797871ff6cf@[213.112.172.139]>
Message-ID: <20010809034850I.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Thomas Kahn <thomas at roundhouse.se>
Subject: [sdiy] Test
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 02:17:53 +0200

> Test

Your here! Wellcome!

Thomas is new to the DIY stuff, but he is learning and expanding his
rig with homebuilt stuff. Earlier this evening he pulled out his first
SAS-modular VCO while we where dining...

This list is full of DIY lunnies and one or two nutcases, but we
usually keep a good spirit here! ;O)

J?rgen just sent a length email on filters.... something for the gurus
to ponder about. I probably let it be until tomorrow.

For those of you who does not know it, the SAS-modular is a DIY
project that we run over att SAS. We've done a VCO (ASM-1 based, but
with triangle and sine aswell) and a PSU is just comming. If you only
learn Swedish you too can be part of it ;O)

Cheers,
Magnus


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug  9 04:57:42 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:57:42 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C7882@hati.kapsch.co.at> <B79434B6.81DA%prototek@optonline.net> <5rd0ntc76cisn3qd0vmblbepq89i3etka5@4ax.com> <006b01c12054$ec6b9620$d836743f@lplizard.com> <002201c1205c$9cb87960$1ccf7ad5@paul>
Message-ID: <3B71FC25.B59C1C54@prodigy.net>

Hi Paul (and all)

I agree with 'most' of this... except the part about the Prophet V choosing the
economy approach (5 voices) as opposed to the common Top Octave Generator
of the day.

The Top Octave Generator makes all the voices track the same exact note... to
arbitrary precision following the equally tempered scale. Usually it was about
+/-
2.5 cents (100th of a semitone).  So all pitches were digitally locked to each
other...
whatever beating there was between notes would be absolutely constant.
The Prophet V used microprocessor assisted tuning to keep all the voices
reasonably
the same, but still have random pitch fluctuations.  User specified tunings were
possible as well... making the P5 the axe of choice for most ethnic music....

Cross modulation would be very hard...  in fact most of the Prophet V voice
patches would be next to impossible.

Top octave generator usually says "electronic organ".  Few synths use this
approach.  I think the Polymoog (strange beast that it is...) is one of them

The Matrix 6 from Oberheim used two high frequency VCO's to feed a digital
pitch generation system.

Why did I ever sell my P5 (oh yeah... no velocity, no midi and one note short of
a guitar synth....)

H^) harry



Paul Maddox wrote:

> Jon,
>
> >     I was rereading the old Penfold book today where it was comparing
> modern
> > synthesis techniques to modern electronic organs. It mentioned the
> polyphony
> > is obtained from a single high frequency oscillation and divided down to
> the
> > appropriate frequency determined by the key pressed. My question is what
> > module would be required per key to divide off the frequency of the master
> > oscillator into the custom frequency before being mixed together to
> output?
>
> if you do it that way, just a divide by two circuit (4013 has two of them).
> There are some disadvantages..
>
> > What parts are involved, another oscillator that oscillates at a frequency
> > based on the frequency of the master? Hmmm, just curious how complex of a
> > circuit is required at each key. Thanks a ton.
>
> the top octave generator (TOG) needs to generate the top octave, ie 12
> notes.
> each of these is then fed into a seirs of divide by two chips (4024 has 12
> stages , IIRC)
> so with a TOG and 12 4024's you could have 13 octaves..
> now heres the catch...
> you need a VCF and VCA and EG for EACH key, yes , EACH key....
> as each key is able to generate sound simply by pressing it you have
> unlimited polyphoney (as many keys as your keyboard has).
>
> Synth makers soon realised (back the early days) this would be far to big
> and costly...
> so they used (in the case of the prophet5) 5 oscillators, each could be
> assigned a note and it would play it..
> this meant you could have 5 notes playing at the same time , a MIRACLE at
> the time...
> you would only need five oscillators (ok so you need more than the other
> mothed which had one) but you now only need 5 VCFs and 5 VCAs, much much
> less electronics that the other method..
> BUT you then had added complexity of voice assignment to contend with...
>
> MOST synths now use the latter method, processors are cheap and fast now,
> and 16note polyphonic assignment is easy enough to do. and most people only
> have 10 fingers !
>
> Hope this helps a little
> Paul Maddox
> _______________________________________
> Wavesynth home page;-
>     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> PPG Synthesizer pages;-
>     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> Waveterm C Project page;-
>     Http://www.waveterm.com



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug  9 05:05:01 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:05:01 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Test
References: <v04220800b797871ff6cf@[213.112.172.139]> <20010809034850I.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3B71FDDC.9F628B1B@prodigy.net>

Hi Magnus...

I'd love to learn Swedish but so far my vocabulary is limited to
'cold sausage in grease proof paper' and 'hey all you baboons'....

Maybe you can teach us, eh ???

And what did you mean by nutcases....    are those entire cases of nuts
??? or some
special container for one or more nuts ??? I'm so confused.
I've heard of hard cases...

Anyway WELCOME Thomas...

but watch out I think that maybe Magnus is one of those
"nutcases" too...   ;^P

H^) harry   (who is one nut short of a case...)

Magnus Danielson wrote:

> From: Thomas Kahn <thomas at roundhouse.se>
> Subject: [sdiy] Test
> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 02:17:53 +0200
>
> > Test
>
> Your here! Wellcome!
>
> Thomas is new to the DIY stuff, but he is learning and expanding his
> rig with homebuilt stuff. Earlier this evening he pulled out his first
> SAS-modular VCO while we where dining...
>
> This list is full of DIY lunnies and one or two nutcases, but we
> usually keep a good spirit here! ;O)
>
> J?rgen just sent a length email on filters.... something for the gurus
> to ponder about. I probably let it be until tomorrow.
>
> For those of you who does not know it, the SAS-modular is a DIY
> project that we run over att SAS. We've done a VCO (ASM-1 based, but
> with triangle and sine aswell) and a PSU is just comming. If you only
> learn Swedish you too can be part of it ;O)
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus



From xinclxsynth-diy at mkv.mh.se  Thu Aug  9 10:18:16 2001
From: xinclxsynth-diy at mkv.mh.se (Synth-DIY)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 10:18:16 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Roland DIN sync - pin 4 use?
Message-ID: <fc.000f4924005a4479000f4924005a4479.5a4496@mkv.mh.se>

Hi!

trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk skriver:
>Does anyone actually use pin 4 on the Roland DIN sync24 interface?

I have a SBX-80 - a SMPTE syncronizer/master clock. It doesn't not use (send) pin
4 at all. At least the schematics says so. I don't have full schematics on the
909 but the SBX-80 is of the same age as the 909 so they might share the non-use
of pin 4.

The 606 uses pin 4 for TAP, just like the 303.

regards Per

--------------- MITTH?GSKOLAN (MID SWEDEN UNIVERSITY) --------------------
Per Mattsson                    PhD Student, Lecturer, Tech.manager
Cellph: +46 70 652 45 67        Information Technologies and Mediascience.
Tel   : +46 60 14 88 25         Dept. of Media and Communication
Fax   : +46 60 14 89 34         SE-851 70  Sundsvall, SWEDEN
Visit : Fabriksg 32, Campus Sundsvall, Utvecklingscentrum, Hus C, plan 6
http://www.mkv.mh.se            mailto:Per.Mattsson at mkv.mh.se
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Aug  9 11:26:06 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:26:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C7882@hati.kapsch.co.at> <B79434B6.81DA%prototek@optonline.net> <5rd0ntc76cisn3qd0vmblbepq89i3etka5@4ax.com> <006b01c12054$ec6b9620$d836743f@lplizard.com> <002201c1205c$9cb87960$1ccf7ad5@paul>
Message-ID: <00f601c120b6$781d3000$c70b87d9@default>

>Synth makers soon realised (back the early days) this would be far to
big and costly...

And very heavy.

This poorly Polymoog Synth I have, which has a VCA, waveshaping, and a
two pole ladder per note is very very heavy.

I'm compiling a little photo album of the work as it progesses. I'll pop
up the first lot of pictures very soon.

Hey Gene... the PTFE spray certainly helped. Thanks for the tip. The
keyboard is still very heavy though, but I think I can get used to it.

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From thomas at roundhouse.se  Thu Aug  9 12:05:55 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:05:55 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CS-5 (was: Test)
In-Reply-To: <3B71FDDC.9F628B1B@prodigy.net>
References: <v04220800b797871ff6cf@[213.112.172.139]> <20010809034850I.cfmd@swipnet.se> <3B71FDDC.9F628B1B@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <v04220803b79808d11a3c@[213.112.172.163]>

Harry:
> Anyway WELCOME Thomas...
>
> but watch out I think that maybe Magnus is one of those
> "nutcases" too...   ;^P

Thanks!

A very knowledgabe and helpful nutcase though. :-)
Magnus has helped me with tons of questions that
I've asked the SAS list during the past month;
most of them concerning electronics.

Apart from the SAS Modular project, I've recently
bought a Yamaha CS-5 and it should be delivered
today or tomorrow. I didn't pay the full price because
there is something wrong with the cutoff trimpot.
It might be the potentiometer itself, or if I'm
unlucky, there is something wrong with the actual
circuits.

Is that a common problem? The reason I ask is
because I found this on Harmony Central:

  "The Cutoff knob froze once, and my local TV shop
  fixed it for about $5. And I had used the living
  hell out of that knob......Tuning's solid too."

<http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Yamaha/CS-5-01.html>

/Thomas
___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From atom at suspicious.org  Thu Aug  9 15:02:07 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:02:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] hello
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108090856000.4121-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

i'm new, so i'll introduce myself.

my name is atom, i'm from NJ, US (i'm not proud).

some of you may recognize me from other lists. (k5000, fs1r, digitalhell)

here are crappy pictures of my home-brew 303 clone...
		http://smasher.suspicious.org/303/

here's my used-gear finder....
		http://smasher.suspicious.org/used/

        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"The proposition that intelligence has any long-term
	 survival value remains to be demonstrated."
		-- Arthur C. Clarke




From atom at suspicious.org  Thu Aug  9 15:15:25 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:15:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] cem-3396 questions
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108090902400.4121-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

i've always wondered about the cem-3396.....

it's used in the matrix-6 (6r, 1000) and also used in the cheetah ms6.

the sound of the ms6 is described as "cutting through steel", "cutting
through stone", and "cutting through glass".

the sound of the matrix, is... well, i think we've all heard it, and it
would have a hard time cutting itself out of a paper bag. i think it would
be better described as "warm", "soft", "gentle".

so, what i'm trying to figure out, is how can i mod the circuitry around
the filter of the 3396, in my matrix 6r, to get more agressive sounds out
of it?

	cem-3396 data-sheet:
http://www.synthtech.com/cem/c3396pdf.pdf

i've never been able to figure out how the 4 capacitors on pins 16-19
affect the filter, but i suspect that they have something do do with it.

any help or suggestions greatly appreciated.....

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"I would rather fail in a cause that will ultimately triumph
	 than triumph in a cause that will ultimately fail."
		-- Woodrow Wilson




From dragonser at clara.net  Thu Aug  9 15:56:20 2001
From: dragonser at clara.net (Peter Blackett)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:56:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Eprom image for non Midi Oscar 
Message-ID: <3B729684.1D3EB79A@clara.net>

Hi,
just wondered if anyone would have an eprom image for a non Midi Oscar 
...........
I have got an Image for a Midi version , but I need to try to use the
machine without Midi as the interface board has the usual connections
problems when the synth is moved about.
regards Peter


From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Thu Aug  9 16:33:59 2001
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:33:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] frequency to voltage? (theremin fun)
Message-ID: <000b01c120e0$53f346e0$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>

Hi.

Yesterday I built a little theremin based on a circuit I found in the
internet somewhere.. It's not the classic circuit.

Oscillator is built around a cmos hex-inverter, and a cmos pll ic controlles
it's frequency. It's really fun to play around with that toy. (especially if
you run it through a dsp based guitar processor) :)

Now I want to add amplitude control.

I thought about just building a second one, and use some kind of frequency
to voltage converter, add a vca and have amplitude control (or filter cutoff
controll or whatever comes into my sick mind..)

The circuit outputs a nice 9V squarewave (50% duty cycle).. any ideas how to
get that into a frequency dependent voltage cheap?

The only idea I have is to use a moderate lowpass behind the output, add a
full wave rectifier and then plug that into a high q lowpass (5hz, 18db or
so).

That's just a naive idea.. would that work?

Thanks,
    Nils Pipenbrinck




From marmot1 at magma.ca  Thu Aug  9 19:03:33 2001
From: marmot1 at magma.ca (marmot1 at magma.ca)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:03:33 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] frequency to voltage? (theremin fun)
References: <000b01c120e0$53f346e0$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>
Message-ID: <3B72C265.BC3@magma.ca>

Hi Nils,
I put together one of Harry's PV-1 pitch-voltage converter boards 
(available from Tomg's EFM site). Apparently it works quite nicely with 
a theremin. I use mine to provide an analog one volt/oct CV from a 
homemade digital synth.
Regards, Mike


Nils Pipenbrinck wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Yesterday I built a little theremin based on a circuit I found in the
> internet somewhere.. It's not the classic circuit.
> 
> Oscillator is built around a cmos hex-inverter, and a cmos pll ic controlles
> it's frequency. It's really fun to play around with that toy. (especially if
> you run it through a dsp based guitar processor) :)
> 
> Now I want to add amplitude control.
> 
> I thought about just building a second one, and use some kind of frequency
> to voltage converter, add a vca and have amplitude control (or filter cutoff
> controll or whatever comes into my sick mind..)
> 
> The circuit outputs a nice 9V squarewave (50% duty cycle).. any ideas how to
> get that into a frequency dependent voltage cheap?
> 
> The only idea I have is to use a moderate lowpass behind the output, add a
> full wave rectifier and then plug that into a high q lowpass (5hz, 18db or
> so).
> 
> That's just a naive idea.. would that work?
> 
> Thanks,
>     Nils Pipenbrinck


From atom at suspicious.org  Thu Aug  9 20:04:00 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:04:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] cem-3396 questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108090902400.4121-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108091354430.17222-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

does anyone know where i can find out more about the filter design of the
CEM-3396?

	http://www.synthtech.com/cem/c3396pdf.pdf
the block-diagram on the data sheet just shows at as 4 amps in series,
controlled by a mystery module, and somehow decoupled by capacitors.

how do the capacitors affect the sound?

what is the box [e^x] below it?

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	God is dead.  	   - Nietzsche 1882
	Nietzsche is dead. - God 1900




From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Aug  9 21:08:48 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 12:08:48 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] cem-3396 questions
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108091354430.17222-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <3B72DFC0.D09DB23B@silcom.com>



Atom 'Smasher' wrote:

> does anyone know where i can find out more about the filter design of the
> CEM-3396?
>
>         http://www.synthtech.com/cem/c3396pdf.pdf
> the block-diagram on the data sheet just shows at as 4 amps in series,
> controlled by a mystery module, and somehow decoupled by capacitors.

    Not decoupling capacitors....these set the resonant frequency in
combination with the tuning current.

>
>
> how do the capacitors affect the sound?

    By selecting the capacitor you will affect the overall tuning range.  If
you make the capacitors larger, you will tune over lower frequencies.  Make
it larger, it will tune over higher frequencies.

    As far as the sound quality, the capacitor type will have some affect,
but probably very small, to the point where if you use ceramic vs
polystyrene, you will probably not notice the difference.

>
>
> what is the box [e^x] below it?

    This is a voltage to exponential current converter.  This is what tunes
the filter.

    Hope this helps, a bit...

    -Jim

    Visit: http://www.silcom.com/~patchell





From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Aug  9 22:25:24 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:25:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] cem-3396 questions
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108091354430.17222-100000@spy.suspicious.org> <3B72DFC0.D09DB23B@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3B72F1B4.C0F6392@silcom.com>



Jim Patchell wrote:

> Atom 'Smasher' wrote:
>
> > does anyone know where i can find out more about the filter design of the
> > CEM-3396?
> >
> >         http://www.synthtech.com/cem/c3396pdf.pdf
> > the block-diagram on the data sheet just shows at as 4 amps in series,
> > controlled by a mystery module, and somehow decoupled by capacitors.
>
>     Not decoupling capacitors....these set the resonant frequency in
> combination with the tuning current.
>
> >
> >
> > how do the capacitors affect the sound?
>
>     By selecting the capacitor you will affect the overall tuning range.  If
> you make the capacitors larger, you will tune over lower frequencies.  Make
> it larger, it will tune over higher frequencies.
>

    Correction...that last line should read Make it smaller, it will tune over
higher frequencies....guess I was just thinking larger today :-)


>
>     As far as the sound quality, the capacitor type will have some affect,
> but probably very small, to the point where if you use ceramic vs
> polystyrene, you will probably not notice the difference.
>
> >
> >
> > what is the box [e^x] below it?
>
>     This is a voltage to exponential current converter.  This is what tunes
> the filter.
>
>     Hope this helps, a bit...
>
>     -Jim
>
>     Visit: http://www.silcom.com/~patchell



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Fri Aug 10 03:23:55 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 03:23:55 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Test
In-Reply-To: <3B71FDDC.9F628B1B@prodigy.net>
References: <v04220800b797871ff6cf@[213.112.172.139]>
	<20010809034850I.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<3B71FDDC.9F628B1B@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20010810032355V.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Test
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:05:01 -0400

> Hi Magnus...

Hej Harry!

(You ought to know that's safe ;)

> I'd love to learn Swedish but so far my vocabulary is limited to
> 'cold sausage in grease proof paper' and 'hey all you baboons'....

Oh, what wounders in vocabulary and usefull expressions! ;O)

> Maybe you can teach us, eh ???

Hmm... that is more like Swedish-DIY rather than Synth-DIY, right?

Well, let's take a little piece of music sung by the Delta Rythm Boys
when they visited Sweden many years ago:
"Det var flickorna i Sm?land..."

"It was the girls in Sm?land"

Sm?land would become Littlecountry, but translating geographical names
has its downsides, doesn't it?

> And what did you mean by nutcases....    are those entire cases of nuts
> ??? or some
> special container for one or more nuts ??? I'm so confused.
> I've heard of hard cases...

You replied, didn't you? ;)

Actually, the nuts usually come in pairs in a softcase :-P

> Anyway WELCOME Thomas...
> 
> but watch out I think that maybe Magnus is one of those
> "nutcases" too...   ;^P

Hmm... actually, when you say it and I start to look around... yeah,
you are probably quite right! :-P

> H^) harry   (who is one nut short of a case...)

What kind of nut? Chessnut? Is it hard to crack? The case that is...

BTW. I think we gone waaaay into deep offtopican land!

Cheers,
Magnus


From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Fri Aug 10 03:56:41 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:56:41 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] CS-5 (was: Test)
Message-ID: <122.2c99919.28a49959@aol.com>

I bought a cs 15 with a stuck eg depth pot on vcf 2,  I just swapped the pot 
for a common one, which with a little fiddling, fit perfect.  the trimpots 
are a kind still made today, so no problems there.

good luck



From mikko.a.helin at nokia.com  Fri Aug 10 10:37:57 2001
From: mikko.a.helin at nokia.com (mikko.a.helin at nokia.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:37:57 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] test
Message-ID: <0AA9E01B31168E42A308714A6EF271841E9C40@trebe002.NOE.Nokia.com>

SAS = Svenska Analogsympatis?rer = Swedish AnalogSympathizers. Symph-DIY. 

What kind of instrument is the sympathizer anyway? 

Here are the modular pages:

http://www.jacek.nu/sas/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Magnus Danielson [mailto:cfmd at swipnet.se]
> Sent: 10. August 2001 4:24
> To: harrybissell at prodigy.net
> Cc: cfmd at swipnet.se; thomas at roundhouse.se; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Test
> 

From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Test
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:05:01 -0400

> Hi Magnus...

Hej Harry!

(You ought to know that's safe ;)

> I'd love to learn Swedish but so far my vocabulary is limited to
> 'cold sausage in grease proof paper' and 'hey all you baboons'....

Oh, what wounders in vocabulary and usefull expressions! ;O)

> Maybe you can teach us, eh ???

Hmm... that is more like Swedish-DIY rather than Synth-DIY, right?

Well, let's take a little piece of music sung by the Delta Rythm Boys
when they visited Sweden many years ago:
"Det var flickorna i Sm?land..."

"It was the girls in Sm?land"

Sm?land would become Littlecountry, but translating geographical names
has its downsides, doesn't it?

> And what did you mean by nutcases....    are those entire cases of nuts
> ??? or some
> special container for one or more nuts ??? I'm so confused.
> I've heard of hard cases...

You replied, didn't you? ;)

Actually, the nuts usually come in pairs in a softcase :-P

> Anyway WELCOME Thomas...
> 
> but watch out I think that maybe Magnus is one of those
> "nutcases" too...   ;^P

Hmm... actually, when you say it and I start to look around... yeah,
you are probably quite right! :-P

> H^) harry   (who is one nut short of a case...)

What kind of nut? Chessnut? Is it hard to crack? The case that is...

BTW. I think we gone waaaay into deep offtopican land!

Cheers,
Magnus


From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Fri Aug 10 11:42:09 2001
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:42:09 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] frequency to voltage? (theremin fun)
References: <000b01c120e0$53f346e0$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de> <3B7303B0.2F32@hevanet.com>
Message-ID: <004601c12180$bf4e6140$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>

> Hi Nils,
> There are chips just for that, such as the TC9400, which I have been
> using on a non-synth related project. ...
> http://www.telcom-semi.com/products/datasheets/tc9400_2.pdf


I also took a look at the LM2917 and LM2907.. they are cheaper and easier to
get...
Any experiences with them?

Thanks,
    Nils




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Fri Aug 10 14:48:11 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:48:11 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] test
In-Reply-To: <0AA9E01B31168E42A308714A6EF271841E9C40@trebe002.NOE.Nokia.com>
References: <0AA9E01B31168E42A308714A6EF271841E9C40@trebe002.NOE.Nokia.com>
Message-ID: <20010810144811W.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: mikko.a.helin at nokia.com
Subject: RE: [sdiy] test
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:37:57 +0300

> SAS = Svenska Analogsympatis?rer = Swedish AnalogSympathizers. Symph-DIY. 
> 
> What kind of instrument is the sympathizer anyway? 

It's not an instrument, we just sympathize with the analogue synths
and yes, we are mostly Swedish. We have one active guy from Norway and
a few more (from Norway and Denmark) lurking around I beleive.

We have succseeded in making 5 albums of music, taking up the volume
of 8 CDs. A 6th concept album is in the cooking and we can even see
beyond that and a 7th album (back to normal contributions) is
eventually going to come into existence.

It is interesting how these mini-series of CDs helps to make people
put some extra effort in making better music. The general tendensy is
that the albums gets better and better. It is basically an opertunity
for feedback. Lovely.

The SAS list has two major groupings of people that often meet, one in
Gothenburg and one here in Stockholm. A third grouping of people is
trying to form down in Sk?ne, and I wish them good luck in doing that.

When Bob Moog was over in Sweden for the Polar Music Award, I took
the initiative to basically buy him dinner... we actually threw a
minor party with live music and gave him our own medal and
diploma. You can check out our party at:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~polarn-p/sas/moogmiddag/moogdinner.html

PS. Do listen to SHotQ! I love them. While their studio stuff indeed
sounds better, I can't say that their live performance was bad, just
different and with a tad of misstakes.

It is noteworthy that this event (including the actual Polar Music
Award cermony two days earlier) was one of the rare occasions I would
wear a tie.

Among the DIY people which you might know you should find me, J?rgen
Bergfors (the official photographer of the event), Patrick "Rotwang
the Mad Inventor/Polarn-P" Eriksson (who helped out with dinner
arrangements, created the medal and diploma - wounderfull job by the
way!), Per Mattson and a person who recently joined the list, Thomas
Kahn.

> Here are the modular pages:
> 
> http://www.jacek.nu/sas/

Indeed. Now, we have the VCO card done (actually, a rerun of the PCBs
is allready under discussion), we are just finishing off the first
round of PSUs and I guess the VCA is the next. We will create the next
onces as we get there.

If you *really* pleade, we could toss in some text in some foreign
languague, like Danish! ;O)

Other than that, it is all done in true DIY spirit and I am pleased to
learn just how many people out there who is building these VCOs.
SAS was in the early days very DIY heavy, and many of those people are
still around more or less. It is interesting to see that people
outside of the normal DIY core (like Thomas) is getting through their
theething period with such a project. It is truely inspiring to see.

As SAS now has come of some age for a email list (it turns 5 years in
about a month) it has grown to be a very nice community and is one of
the best email lists I've ever experienced. Synth-DIY has also grown
to be one of my favorite, as long as people stay out of throwing shit
at each other. I think SAS and Synth-DIY has many aspects in common,
well except for the obvious distinction in Languague. Naturally, if
you read and possibly write Swedish (Danish or Norweigan is naturally
OK, due to the relatively close ties between the languagues) you are
wellcome to join in! ;O)

Cheers,
Magnus


From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Aug 10 19:24:24 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:24:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108090902400.4121-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <B79982F8.21863%grichter@asapnet.net>

I have always wondered if random voltage generators were developed for
electronic music synthesizers. A book I recently discovered at the public
library gives background on their development.

The book is "Random Process Simulation and Measurements" by Granino Korn
(1966 McGraw-Hill). Which seems to be a companion text to the famous
"Electronic Analog and Hybrid Computers".

Of interest is chapter 4 "Direct Simulation of Random Phenomena:
Introduction to Monte-Carlo Techniques and Noise Generators" also of
interest is 6-1 "Statistical Effects of Quantization" which is a broadly
theoretical chapter on analog to digital conversion.

It seems that random voltage generators were developed for use with analogue
computers for "brute force" Monte-Carlo solutions (bang the variables with
random numbers until you get a solution). Also for process optimization and
analysis of statistical effects of modeled communication channels using long
decay phosphor oscilloscopes.

If you have an interest in random voltage generation (such as the Buchla
"Source of Uncertainty" modules) I would highly recommend checking your
local libraries for a copy of this book.




From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Aug 10 19:37:10 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:37:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] frequency to voltage? (theremin fun)
In-Reply-To: <000b01c120e0$53f346e0$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>
Message-ID: <B79985F6.21864%grichter@asapnet.net>

"Electronics Today" (198?) had a design for a theremin based entirely on 2 x
CD4046 PLL chips. Run both oscillators at 160 Khz and hang an antenna on one
of the timing capacitor terminals. Use the internal XOR gate to get the
difference frequency.

It works much better if you put a 40 milliHenry inductor between the timing
cap terminal and antenna. This decouples the antenna and give you about a 2
foot control range. The antenna can be a transistor radio antenna. Parts
cost is under $10 for the whole thing.

You can also use another CD4046 to turn the difference frequency into an
output voltage. That can control a VCA for volume control.

If you build two circuits, set them about 50 Khz apart so they do not
interfere with each other.

> From: "Nils Pipenbrinck" <np at inverse-entertainment.de>
> Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:33:59 +0200
> To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: [sdiy] frequency to voltage? (theremin fun)
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Yesterday I built a little theremin based on a circuit I found in the
> internet somewhere.. It's not the classic circuit.
> 
> Oscillator is built around a cmos hex-inverter, and a cmos pll ic controlles
> it's frequency. It's really fun to play around with that toy. (especially if
> you run it through a dsp based guitar processor) :)
> 
> Now I want to add amplitude control.
> 
> I thought about just building a second one, and use some kind of frequency
> to voltage converter, add a vca and have amplitude control (or filter cutoff
> controll or whatever comes into my sick mind..)
> 
> The circuit outputs a nice 9V squarewave (50% duty cycle).. any ideas how to
> get that into a frequency dependent voltage cheap?
> 
> The only idea I have is to use a moderate lowpass behind the output, add a
> full wave rectifier and then plug that into a high q lowpass (5hz, 18db or
> so).
> 
> That's just a naive idea.. would that work?
> 
> Thanks,
> Nils Pipenbrinck
> 
> 
> 
> 

.



From jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr  Sat Aug 11 00:42:34 2001
From: jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr (jbv)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:42:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] analog parabolic EG
Message-ID: <3B74635A.594A5AA6@wanadoo.fr>

Bleep !

Could anyone point me to schematics of an
analog parabolic evelope generator ?

Thanks.
JB




From synth1 at airmail.net  Sat Aug 11 06:57:07 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:57:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] New modular CD
Message-ID: <001901c12222$13141440$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Portland, OR - based power trio Minus has  released a CD that shows the MOTM
modular used in a live
setting as a processor/noise generator. Not "electronic music" at all: more
like funk/stoner jazz/improv.

Check out the mp3 samples at:

http://www.newandimprov.com/minus2.html

and see if it's your cup of tea. Bassist/keyboardist Dave Trenkel also play
Rhodes, Hammond and DIY electronics.

Paul S.




From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Aug 11 18:02:17 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:02:17 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Power Supply Filter Capacitor Requirements
Message-ID: <3B755708.590AD775@silcom.com>

    I just posted a quick tutorial on how to estimate and select the
filter capacitor needed for a power supply.  Yes, I know, this is only
an approximation, but, it works....

    http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/powersupply/powersupply.html

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From dragonser at clara.net  Sun Aug 12 00:10:25 2001
From: dragonser at clara.net (Peter Blackett)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:10:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Data formats in Eprom based drum machines and Romplers 
Message-ID: <3B75AD51.73BE51D8@clara.net>

Hi,
I've been investigating the format of data in eproms used in different
drum machines [ the early 8 bit ones ].I seem to have found from the
page at 
http://www.electrongate.com/dmxfiles/
[ good site about the Oberheim drum machines ].
that there are two main types Mu law and linear .
I can play back the linear samples ok , but I'm interested if anyone is
more familiar with the MU law ones ?
[ I do understand that the Mu law ones are done to increase the
available dynamic range of the samples ].
are there any other formats I should be familiar with ?
I think this would also apply to the samples used in different Romplers
as well ........
anyone done any hacking of these [ maybe you should only reply off list
! ].
on another subject entirely ...........
thanks to the post here about the Theremin event I had a most
interesting Tuesday evening , was great to see different Theremins being
used .
regards Peter




From prototek at optonline.net  Sun Aug 12 00:41:41 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:41:41 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] archive not working?
Message-ID: <B79B2CE5.8380%prototek@optonline.net>

   Does anyone know whats going on with the searchable list archive? I've
tried to access it for the last several days on 3 different computers and
failed each time.

                           -Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From prototek at optonline.net  Sun Aug 12 00:44:02 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:44:02 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MXR Phaser project
Message-ID: <B79B2D72.8381%prototek@optonline.net>

   I'm interested in building a very simple phaser. I always liked the
little MXR series so I decided to check out some schematics. It looks basic
enough, but I was wondering if anyone on the list has any
experience/suggestions on these MXR projects. Or perhaps someone can suggest
another phaser project?

                   -Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From microtonal at worldnet.att.net  Sun Aug 12 01:36:07 2001
From: microtonal at worldnet.att.net (Microtonal)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:36:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Data formats in Eprom based drum machines and Romplers 
References: <3B75AD51.73BE51D8@clara.net>
Message-ID: <001001c122be$65caba80$1711530c@smile>

Mu law was commonly used in digital telephony.  It gives a dynamic range
closer to 11 or 12 bits than the 8 bits that it uses.  The Sequential Tom
drum machine used Mu law compression/expansion.

John Loffink
microtonal at worldnet.att.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Blackett" <dragonser at clara.net>
To: "synth Diy list" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 5:10 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Data formats in Eprom based drum machines and Romplers


> Hi,
> I've been investigating the format of data in eproms used in different
> drum machines [ the early 8 bit ones ].I seem to have found from the
> page at
> http://www.electrongate.com/dmxfiles/
> [ good site about the Oberheim drum machines ].
> that there are two main types Mu law and linear .
> I can play back the linear samples ok , but I'm interested if anyone is
> more familiar with the MU law ones ?
> [ I do understand that the Mu law ones are done to increase the
> available dynamic range of the samples ].
> are there any other formats I should be familiar with ?
> I think this would also apply to the samples used in different Romplers
> as well ........
> anyone done any hacking of these [ maybe you should only reply off list
> ! ].
> on another subject entirely ...........
> thanks to the post here about the Theremin event I had a most
> interesting Tuesday evening , was great to see different Theremins being
> used .
> regards Peter
>
>
>



From the8bitdeity at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 01:43:09 2001
From: the8bitdeity at yahoo.com (Robert Kukuchka)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:43:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] MXR Phaser project
In-Reply-To: <B79B2D72.8381%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20010811234309.88425.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com>

-actually I work for ART, the company that partly came
out of the MXR disolving. I work with 3 of the MXR
engineers. If you have questions, I could try and ask
them.
~Rob KUkuchka
--- Prototek <prototek at optonline.net> wrote:
>    I'm interested in building a very simple phaser.
> I always liked the
> little MXR series so I decided to check out some
> schematics. It looks basic
> enough, but I was wondering if anyone on the list
> has any
> experience/suggestions on these MXR projects. Or
> perhaps someone can suggest
> another phaser project?
> 
>                    -Proto
> ------
> "By pressing down a special key it plays a little
> melody."
> Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 
> 
> 


=====
Rob Kukuchka
The Gaussian Surface Project
www.dysgenicrecords.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun Aug 12 02:12:21 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:12:21 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] analog parabolic EG
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010812001221.0074a854@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 10:42 PM 10/08/01 +0000, JB wrote:
>Could anyone point me to schematics of an
>analog parabolic evelope generator ?
>
Since a parabola is defined by a linear and a squared term,
you could make a generator from a maximum of 3 multipliers.

paul perry Melbourne Australia



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sun Aug 12 03:10:03 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 03:10:03 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] analog parabolic EG
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20010812001221.0074a854@popa.melbpc.org.au>
References: <1.5.4.32.20010812001221.0074a854@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <20010812031003S.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] analog parabolic EG
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:12:21 +1000

> At 10:42 PM 10/08/01 +0000, JB wrote:
> >Could anyone point me to schematics of an
> >analog parabolic evelope generator ?
> >
> Since a parabola is defined by a linear and a squared term,
> you could make a generator from a maximum of 3 multipliers.

Toss in a linear envelope generator... and you are basically done ;O)

Maybe some finetuning might be needed.

Cheers,
Magnus



From sjenn1970 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 05:26:40 2001
From: sjenn1970 at yahoo.com (Steve Jennings)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:26:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Modular kit recs?
Message-ID: <20010812032640.68893.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey all:

I just joined the list for support on my new upcoming
obsession... Please pardon the newbie intrusion, I've
go to start somewhere.

I was wondering if someone could recommend a good
vendor(s) for modular synth kit components
(electronics). Also, to what extent can I mix and
match components from different manufacturers. I know
that most use the same voltage specs nowadays, right?

I'd like to build a custom housing (rack/sides),
knobs/sliders, and face plates from scratch in my
friends machine/wood shop.

There are quite a few kits available now. I have an
"intermediate" level of DIY electronics skills.
However, I have a fair amount of industrial design
skills for milling, drilling, etc. 

Finally, I have a good amount of analog synthesis and
modular synth protocol. I've used a Nord Modular and
tons of other hardwired gear for several years as a
professional sound designer/synthesist.

My passion has gotten to the point where I need to put
together a limited real deal rig to satisfy my need
for tactile interaction!

My budget is $1,500 to $2,000. I realize that this
will get me only a basic setup. I plan to expand of
course when at all humanly possible.

Thanks for any and all help!

Steve J
www.soundguild.com

  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/


From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Aug 12 06:33:26 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:33:26 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Modular kit recs?
References: <20010812032640.68893.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B760716.96B41387@silcom.com>

    There are a lot of great kits:
        MOTM http://www.synthtech.com
        Blacet http://www.blacet.com/
        Paia http://www.paia.com

    Plus, if you want to go a little bit more DIY, there is Tom's EMF
site....dang, I don't seem to have the current address for this one, he
sure likes to move a lot :-)

    There are a couple of more list members that offer boards for DIYers
as well.

    I am trying to come up with some boards myself, but....they aren't
read yet :-(

    I probably forgot somebody (sorry), but these are the ones I came up
with off the top of my head.

Steve Jennings wrote:

> Hey all:
>
> I just joined the list for support on my new upcoming
> obsession... Please pardon the newbie intrusion, I've
> go to start somewhere.
>
> I was wondering if someone could recommend a good
> vendor(s) for modular synth kit components
> (electronics). Also, to what extent can I mix and
> match components from different manufacturers. I know
> that most use the same voltage specs nowadays, right?
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com/

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From matti at devo.com  Sun Aug 12 07:47:23 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:47:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Modular kit recs?
In-Reply-To: <3B760716.96B41387@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108120146580.2677-100000@whipit.devo.com>


www.oakleysound.com, too
On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, patchell wrote:

>     There are a lot of great kits:
>         MOTM http://www.synthtech.com
>         Blacet http://www.blacet.com/
>         Paia http://www.paia.com
>
>     Plus, if you want to go a little bit more DIY, there is Tom's EMF
> site....dang, I don't seem to have the current address for this one, he
> sure likes to move a lot :-)
>
>     There are a couple of more list members that offer boards for DIYers
> as well.
>
>     I am trying to come up with some boards myself, but....they aren't
> read yet :-(
>
>     I probably forgot somebody (sorry), but these are the ones I came up
> with off the top of my head.
>
> Steve Jennings wrote:
>
> > Hey all:
> >
> > I just joined the list for support on my new upcoming
> > obsession... Please pardon the newbie intrusion, I've
> > go to start somewhere.
> >
> > I was wondering if someone could recommend a good
> > vendor(s) for modular synth kit components
> > (electronics). Also, to what extent can I mix and
> > match components from different manufacturers. I know
> > that most use the same voltage specs nowadays, right?
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://im.yahoo.com/
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>

-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From sasami at blaze.net.au  Sun Aug 12 11:14:28 2001
From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:14:28 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Mini pop rhythm
Message-ID: <200108120914.f7C9EQs43925@blaze.net.au>

Has anyone here got any info/schematics etc on the Keio (Korg) Mini pops
Junior rhythm unit, its collectible value etc?

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Aug 12 20:26:28 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:26:28 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] FS ProOne (pre e-bay offer)
References: <0AA9E01B31168E42A308714A6EF271841E9C40@trebe002.NOE.Nokia.com> <20010810144811W.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3B76CA53.3F64518B@prodigy.net>


Sorry to bother you...
A friend of mine has decided to get rid of his ProOne. Since I'm
familiar with it (did the mods...) I asked him if I could mention it
here before it hits e-bay.

Said ProOne has the j-wire keyboard, and has three mods.
1) The filter input ADDS to whatever the internal CV is... instead of
overriding the internal CV
2) A transpose switch to raise the CV in two (if I remember) octaves
so this it can be driven by a sequencer such as the TB-303 (which is sadly
long gone bet y'd be interested in THAT eh ???)
3) A Ring Modulator / VCA that is installed on the front panel, just above the
pitch / mod wheels.  It is interfaced via the direct / wheel modulation section

using a three way toggle. The label is done with the old Scotchcal Black on
aluminum
material and looks like a factory mod. Ring Mod is the Burr Brown 4214 analog
multiplier (laser trimmed).

It is in very good shape, having spent most of its like idle.

If interested send offers to Steve selturks at aol.com

(I'd buy it myself but I have one that is usually idle also...  ;^)

Again sorry for the OT but since it's sort of my baby too I'd like to see it
find
a worthy home.

H^) harry






From Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Aug 12 22:14:08 2001
From: Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk (Lincoln Fong)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:14:08 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Tascam 34
Message-ID: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEAOCHAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>

I thought I might do up my old Tascam 4 Track (1/4 inch) open reel recorder.
Does anyone have a schematic they'd be good enough to email or can someone
point me to one? I really only need the audio card schem. as the rest works
OK. I think it's relay problems.

Also, apart from delay units, can anyone think of a use for these things
these days? Their resale value is almost nil and yet they're so well made
it's a shame not to use them for something.

Thanks

Lincoln



From prototek at optonline.net  Sun Aug 12 22:31:12 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 16:31:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <B79C5FCF.83B1%prototek@optonline.net>

   As you can probably tell by my signature phrase below, I'm a Kraftwerk
fan. Their Computerworld album recently got me thinking about making a
calculator that can trigger various "bleeps, bloops, etc..." by pressing
down the right keys. Hell, maybe its even possible to put a SID 6581 in
there? I know this whole concept sounds a little silly and far fetched, but
I'm still curious about it.
   What about the old TI calculators that could speak? Has anyone ever
circuit bent those to produce interesting sounds?

                           -Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From buchi at takeonetech.de  Sun Aug 12 22:59:04 2001
From: buchi at takeonetech.de (Michael Buchstaller)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:59:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] archive not working?
In-Reply-To: <B79B2CE5.8380%prototek@optonline.net>
References: <B79B2CE5.8380%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <sdrdntgcjohk3ia7ct8dhn9uv30ulbb40r@4ax.com>

>   Does anyone know whats going on with the searchable list archive? I've
>tried to access it for the last several days on 3 different computers and
>failed each time.

For an (at least to me) unknown reason all my web services had been stopped
by my ISP. I just have started them again, and it should work.
Maybe they have closed them for some problems, like CodeRed or something.


-Michael Buchstaller


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Aug 13 01:40:20 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:40:20 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
References: <B79C5FCF.83B1%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3B7713E3.E4A0DEB5@prodigy.net>

You need the old Casio Melody card calculator...

when you press '  =  ' it plays back the display

H^) harry

Prototek wrote:

>    As you can probably tell by my signature phrase below, I'm a
> Kraftwerk fan. Their Computerworld album recently got me thinking
> about making a calculator that can trigger various "bleeps, bloops,
> etc..." by pressing down the right keys. Hell, maybe its even possible
> to put a SID 6581 in there? I know this whole concept sounds a little
> silly and far fetched, but I'm still curious about it.
>    What about the old TI calculators that could speak? Has anyone ever
> circuit bent those to produce interesting sounds?
>
>                            -Proto
> ------
> "By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
> Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator"



From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 13 05:15:50 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:15:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <F142eeFUtLch9wPiyAp000058da@hotmail.com>

I'm gonna add that I'm a big fan of portable stuff and "Pocket Calculator" 
has had me thinking of having some kind of little portable synthesizer.  You 
can get pocket sized housings at radio shack and you could make a keyboard 
out of tiny buttons

0   0   0       0   0       0   0   0       0   0

   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0

According to a friend of mine who went to a Kraftwerk Show several years ago 
in NYC (lucky bastard!), when K-Werk played that tune on stage they had 
little calculator sized things they played on.

As for a synth engine within this tiny device, well, You could use a CEM3396 
or use a simple osc design like a UJT based osc (Check Ack Electronics in 
atlanta for UJT no 2n4853 I bought four of them their, they are now out of 
stock but they said they could get more) Or you could make a OTA based osc 
which is, in my opinion, about as easy as a UJT osc.  You wouldn't even 
necessarily have to scale the oscillator properly, you could tune each key 
with a trim-pot, I guess for amplitude control you'd have several options, 
maybe a tiny joystick, or a little button to trigger the thing, or you could 
use a Yamaha BC-3 breath controller to drive a VCA CV or a resistive strip, 
or.....

These have been my brainstorms on the "Pocket Calculator" type synth.

You could also probably use a SN76477, a SID6581 based synth is most likely 
out of the question though because having battery power and digital control 
of the functions etc, well, if you actually ever were to succeed building 
THAT, *I* want one too! ]:-)


         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>To: Prototek <prototek at optonline.net>
>CC: Synth_diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:40:20 -0400
>
>You need the old Casio Melody card calculator...
>
>when you press '  =  ' it plays back the display
>
>H^) harry
>
>Prototek wrote:
>
> >    As you can probably tell by my signature phrase below, I'm a
> > Kraftwerk fan. Their Computerworld album recently got me thinking
> > about making a calculator that can trigger various "bleeps, bloops,
> > etc..." by pressing down the right keys. Hell, maybe its even possible
> > to put a SID 6581 in there? I know this whole concept sounds a little
> > silly and far fetched, but I'm still curious about it.
> >    What about the old TI calculators that could speak? Has anyone ever
> > circuit bent those to produce interesting sounds?
> >
> >                            -Proto
> > ------
> > "By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
> > Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator"
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 13 05:27:58 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:27:58 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
Message-ID: <F155o4lB4BwOZxYS0qP00005985@hotmail.com>

I was reading recently about TOS based organs, Thomas Organ Co., Farfisa, 
Wersi, etc, The Vox Jaguar used a similer approach but didn't use a TOS IC 
so it didn't have JUST square waves I think.  I was also considering my Korg 
Poly-800II, it only has 1 VCF for the whole synthesizer, rarely do I miss 
one VCF per not though So I was thinking that a person could make something 
like a hybrid, 70s organ/synthesizer, itd be taking the cheapo route, you 
couldn't LFO moodulate the oscs I don't think.  Basically the TOS ICs would 
divide a 1 or 2 Mhz square wave down to create the top octave then they 
would have other ICs to divide by 2, 4, 8, 16 etc for the lower octaves, If 
you could tune the 1 or 2 Mhz square wave then you could detune two TOS 
organs from each other, which would be kinda cool.  What Wouldn't be cool 
would be the fact that you'd only have square waves and that you'd only have 
constant triggering for the filter that you had, IE your filter could follow 
an ADSR that would gate when you pressed the first key, but any other keys 
you pressed would just come in without retriggering the filter, your VCA 
would have the same property.  The Korg Poly-800 overcomes this by having a 
Multi-trigger switch that retriggers the filter ADSR with each key pressed, 
I never use this function because I rarely like the results.

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>To: Paul Maddox <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
>CC: Jon Darby <jdarby at lplizard.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
>Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:57:42 -0400
>
>Hi Paul (and all)
>
>I agree with 'most' of this... except the part about the Prophet V choosing 
>the
>economy approach (5 voices) as opposed to the common Top Octave Generator
>of the day.
>
>The Top Octave Generator makes all the voices track the same exact note... 
>to
>arbitrary precision following the equally tempered scale. Usually it was 
>about
>+/-
>2.5 cents (100th of a semitone).  So all pitches were digitally locked to 
>each
>other...
>whatever beating there was between notes would be absolutely constant.
>The Prophet V used microprocessor assisted tuning to keep all the voices
>reasonably
>the same, but still have random pitch fluctuations.  User specified tunings 
>were
>possible as well... making the P5 the axe of choice for most ethnic 
>music....
>
>Cross modulation would be very hard...  in fact most of the Prophet V voice
>patches would be next to impossible.
>
>Top octave generator usually says "electronic organ".  Few synths use this
>approach.  I think the Polymoog (strange beast that it is...) is one of 
>them
>
>The Matrix 6 from Oberheim used two high frequency VCO's to feed a digital
>pitch generation system.
>
>Why did I ever sell my P5 (oh yeah... no velocity, no midi and one note 
>short of
>a guitar synth....)
>
>H^) harry
>
>
>
>Paul Maddox wrote:
>
> > Jon,
> >
> > >     I was rereading the old Penfold book today where it was comparing
> > modern
> > > synthesis techniques to modern electronic organs. It mentioned the
> > polyphony
> > > is obtained from a single high frequency oscillation and divided down 
>to
> > the
> > > appropriate frequency determined by the key pressed. My question is 
>what
> > > module would be required per key to divide off the frequency of the 
>master
> > > oscillator into the custom frequency before being mixed together to
> > output?
> >
> > if you do it that way, just a divide by two circuit (4013 has two of 
>them).
> > There are some disadvantages..
> >
> > > What parts are involved, another oscillator that oscillates at a 
>frequency
> > > based on the frequency of the master? Hmmm, just curious how complex 
>of a
> > > circuit is required at each key. Thanks a ton.
> >
> > the top octave generator (TOG) needs to generate the top octave, ie 12
> > notes.
> > each of these is then fed into a seirs of divide by two chips (4024 has 
>12
> > stages , IIRC)
> > so with a TOG and 12 4024's you could have 13 octaves..
> > now heres the catch...
> > you need a VCF and VCA and EG for EACH key, yes , EACH key....
> > as each key is able to generate sound simply by pressing it you have
> > unlimited polyphoney (as many keys as your keyboard has).
> >
> > Synth makers soon realised (back the early days) this would be far to 
>big
> > and costly...
> > so they used (in the case of the prophet5) 5 oscillators, each could be
> > assigned a note and it would play it..
> > this meant you could have 5 notes playing at the same time , a MIRACLE 
>at
> > the time...
> > you would only need five oscillators (ok so you need more than the other
> > mothed which had one) but you now only need 5 VCFs and 5 VCAs, much much
> > less electronics that the other method..
> > BUT you then had added complexity of voice assignment to contend with...
> >
> > MOST synths now use the latter method, processors are cheap and fast 
>now,
> > and 16note polyphonic assignment is easy enough to do. and most people 
>only
> > have 10 fingers !
> >
> > Hope this helps a little
> > Paul Maddox
> > _______________________________________
> > Wavesynth home page;-
> >     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> > Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> >     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> > PPG Synthesizer pages;-
> >     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> > Waveterm C Project page;-
> >     Http://www.waveterm.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From thom_s4 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 13 05:40:35 2001
From: thom_s4 at hotmail.com (Scott Deyo)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:40:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <F213SnRMWuLn5U9T3TG000058ff@hotmail.com>


Well, those old TI calcs wouldn't be "pocket" calculators, they're too big! 
:)

This probably isn't quite what you're looking for, but maybe: You can 
program the HP 28S to play music. So far I have mine playing stepped sine 
waves as various speeds, and in radian mode the same algorithm makes a 
strange near-patterned, near-random scalar thing happen. But it's not very 
easy to do, and there's no audio output, so you need to mic it or maybe take 
it apart, which doesn't seem to be easy -- no screws :( I got the concept 
from an old Modern Electronics article. It's not in the manuals. Now, how 
can I make the Fibonacci sequence musical? :) It has an infrared output 
(ostensibly for a printer) which may be abstractly useful too.

You could take the guts out of a bigger calc, and maybe convert the keys 
into keypad switches to trigger a synth or something. We nerds just have to 
make things difficult, huh?

Good luck,
Scott

----Original Message Follows----
From: Prototek <prototek at optonline.net>
To: Synth_diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 16:31:12 -0400

    As you can probably tell by my signature phrase below, I'm a Kraftwerk
fan. Their Computerworld album recently got me thinking about making a
calculator that can trigger various "bleeps, bloops, etc..." by pressing
down the right keys. Hell, maybe its even possible to put a SID 6581 in
there? I know this whole concept sounds a little silly and far fetched, but
I'm still curious about it.
    What about the old TI calculators that could speak? Has anyone ever
circuit bent those to produce interesting sounds?

                            -Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator"



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From don at till.com  Mon Aug 13 06:11:29 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
In-Reply-To: <F155o4lB4BwOZxYS0qP00005985@hotmail.com> (phdinfunk@hotmail.com)
Message-ID: <200108130411.VAA17043@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
   Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:27:58 -0400

   I was reading recently about TOS based organs, Thomas Organ Co.,
   Farfisa, Wersi, etc, The Vox Jaguar used a similer approach but
   didn't use a TOS IC so it didn't have JUST square waves I think.

What did the Vox Jaguar do?

Note that you're not stuck with square waves just because square waves
come out of the dividers.  You can sum octaves of square waves to get
a staircase, or you can use a cap, diode and resistor to get a half
exponential sawtooth.  The PolyMoog actually performs PWM on the
waves.

   Basically the TOS ICs would divide a 1 or 2 Mhz square wave down to
   create the top octave then they would have other ICs to divide by
   2, 4, 8, 16 etc for the lower octaves, If you could tune the 1 or 2
   Mhz square wave then you could detune two TOS organs from each
   other, which would be kinda cool.

The PolyMoog does this.  In several different ways.

Another thing that the PolyMoog does is that it uses different divider
taps on the two Top Octave Generator ICs -- the second TOG chip is
clocked one semitone higher than the first TOG chip, and the outputs
are all corresponding shifted down a semitone.  This means that there
won't be an unnatural sync between the two TOG chips.  That's very
clever.

(More details on my Moog Patents page:
  http://www.till.com/articles/moog/patents.html)

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From don at till.com  Mon Aug 13 06:15:58 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:15:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
In-Reply-To: <F213SnRMWuLn5U9T3TG000058ff@hotmail.com> (thom_s4@hotmail.com)
Message-ID: <200108130415.VAA17921@shell9.ba.best.com>

Use any programmable calculator, program it to do a bunch of
operations in a continuous loop, and hold the calculator near a guitar
pickup or AM radio.  Instant sequencer.  :-)


  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Aug 13 06:24:03 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:24:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <F155o4lB4BwOZxYS0qP00005985@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B775662.FFA431CB@prodigy.net>

Au Contraire... Dr Strangelove  (surpresses involuntary nazi salute...)

The Top Octave Generator does exactly that... generates a square wave in the
top octave... about 7-8KHz.  Remember that you can't hear harmonics above
20KHz (or if you are a little older, a little less... progressively)   ;^P

So if you sum the square waves in a 1-2, 1-2-4, or 1-2-4-8 sequence... you
can get quasi sawtooth waves at 4K (the first harmonic that would not be quite
right
would be 12KHz... it would be there but at the wrong amplitude... 2K with even
better fidelity... etc.

This is exactly what TOG organs do... additive synthesis using the available
waves.

If you were not going to modulate the 2MHz signal very far... you could generate

a real sawtooth for the top octave and add it to the staircase waves and get the
real
deal...

Juergen Haible had a schematic for his version of the MS-20 oscillator... which
uses
this approach.  You'd have to make the ramps for each top octave note...

Or... Walsh Functions !

H^) harry  (back to my deep mine shaft for 99 years....)

Dr Strangelove wrote:

> I was reading recently about TOS based organs, Thomas Organ Co., Farfisa,
> Wersi, etc, The Vox Jaguar used a similer approach but didn't use a TOS IC
> so it didn't have JUST square waves I think.  I was also considering my Korg
> Poly-800II, it only has 1 VCF for the whole synthesizer, rarely do I miss
> one VCF per not though So I was thinking that a person could make something
> like a hybrid, 70s organ/synthesizer, itd be taking the cheapo route, you
> couldn't LFO moodulate the oscs I don't think.  Basically the TOS ICs would
> divide a 1 or 2 Mhz square wave down to create the top octave then they
> would have other ICs to divide by 2, 4, 8, 16 etc for the lower octaves, If
> you could tune the 1 or 2 Mhz square wave then you could detune two TOS
> organs from each other, which would be kinda cool.  What Wouldn't be cool
> would be the fact that you'd only have square waves and that you'd only have
> constant triggering for the filter that you had, IE your filter could follow
> an ADSR that would gate when you pressed the first key, but any other keys
> you pressed would just come in without retriggering the filter, your VCA
> would have the same property.  The Korg Poly-800 overcomes this by having a
> Multi-trigger switch that retriggers the filter ADSR with each key pressed,
> I never use this function because I rarely like the results.
>
>          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
> >From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> >To: Paul Maddox <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
> >CC: Jon Darby <jdarby at lplizard.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >Subject: Re: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
> >Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:57:42 -0400
> >
> >Hi Paul (and all)
> >
> >I agree with 'most' of this... except the part about the Prophet V choosing
> >the
> >economy approach (5 voices) as opposed to the common Top Octave Generator
> >of the day.
> >
> >The Top Octave Generator makes all the voices track the same exact note...
> >to
> >arbitrary precision following the equally tempered scale. Usually it was
> >about
> >+/-
> >2.5 cents (100th of a semitone).  So all pitches were digitally locked to
> >each
> >other...
> >whatever beating there was between notes would be absolutely constant.
> >The Prophet V used microprocessor assisted tuning to keep all the voices
> >reasonably
> >the same, but still have random pitch fluctuations.  User specified tunings
> >were
> >possible as well... making the P5 the axe of choice for most ethnic
> >music....
> >
> >Cross modulation would be very hard...  in fact most of the Prophet V voice
> >patches would be next to impossible.
> >
> >Top octave generator usually says "electronic organ".  Few synths use this
> >approach.  I think the Polymoog (strange beast that it is...) is one of
> >them
> >
> >The Matrix 6 from Oberheim used two high frequency VCO's to feed a digital
> >pitch generation system.
> >
> >Why did I ever sell my P5 (oh yeah... no velocity, no midi and one note
> >short of
> >a guitar synth....)
> >
> >H^) harry
> >
> >
> >
> >Paul Maddox wrote:
> >
> > > Jon,
> > >
> > > >     I was rereading the old Penfold book today where it was comparing
> > > modern
> > > > synthesis techniques to modern electronic organs. It mentioned the
> > > polyphony
> > > > is obtained from a single high frequency oscillation and divided down
> >to
> > > the
> > > > appropriate frequency determined by the key pressed. My question is
> >what
> > > > module would be required per key to divide off the frequency of the
> >master
> > > > oscillator into the custom frequency before being mixed together to
> > > output?
> > >
> > > if you do it that way, just a divide by two circuit (4013 has two of
> >them).
> > > There are some disadvantages..
> > >
> > > > What parts are involved, another oscillator that oscillates at a
> >frequency
> > > > based on the frequency of the master? Hmmm, just curious how complex
> >of a
> > > > circuit is required at each key. Thanks a ton.
> > >
> > > the top octave generator (TOG) needs to generate the top octave, ie 12
> > > notes.
> > > each of these is then fed into a seirs of divide by two chips (4024 has
> >12
> > > stages , IIRC)
> > > so with a TOG and 12 4024's you could have 13 octaves..
> > > now heres the catch...
> > > you need a VCF and VCA and EG for EACH key, yes , EACH key....
> > > as each key is able to generate sound simply by pressing it you have
> > > unlimited polyphoney (as many keys as your keyboard has).
> > >
> > > Synth makers soon realised (back the early days) this would be far to
> >big
> > > and costly...
> > > so they used (in the case of the prophet5) 5 oscillators, each could be
> > > assigned a note and it would play it..
> > > this meant you could have 5 notes playing at the same time , a MIRACLE
> >at
> > > the time...
> > > you would only need five oscillators (ok so you need more than the other
> > > mothed which had one) but you now only need 5 VCFs and 5 VCAs, much much
> > > less electronics that the other method..
> > > BUT you then had added complexity of voice assignment to contend with...
> > >
> > > MOST synths now use the latter method, processors are cheap and fast
> >now,
> > > and 16note polyphonic assignment is easy enough to do. and most people
> >only
> > > have 10 fingers !
> > >
> > > Hope this helps a little
> > > Paul Maddox
> > > _______________________________________
> > > Wavesynth home page;-
> > >     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> > > Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> > >     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> > > PPG Synthesizer pages;-
> > >     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> > > Waveterm C Project page;-
> > >     Http://www.waveterm.com
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Aug 13 06:50:39 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:50:39 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <F155o4lB4BwOZxYS0qP00005985@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c123b3$808fa420$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

If the frequency range is limited square to saw conversion only takes a few
components.
For a TOS based organ the frequency range for each key is _very_ limited, so
it should be doable to add saw converters to each key.
Spaced saw is even easier to do: diode//resistor, capacitor to gnd and
probably a opamp or transistor buffer.
And when you got (spaced) saw then PWM is only a opamp/comparator away.
When done with spaced saw the pwm range would be limited between 0 and 50%,
but this should be not too much of a problem.
Ofcause for every waveform you will need a additional keyboard contact or
switch IC.

Just some thoughts.
Theo


From: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>



> I was reading recently about TOS based organs, Thomas Organ Co., Farfisa,
> Wersi, etc, The Vox Jaguar used a similer approach but didn't use a TOS IC
> so it didn't have JUST square waves I think.  I was also considering my
Korg
> Poly-800II, it only has 1 VCF for the whole synthesizer, rarely do I miss
> one VCF per not though So I was thinking that a person could make
something
> like a hybrid, 70s organ/synthesizer, itd be taking the cheapo route, you
> couldn't LFO moodulate the oscs I don't think.  Basically the TOS ICs
would
> divide a 1 or 2 Mhz square wave down to create the top octave then they
> would have other ICs to divide by 2, 4, 8, 16 etc for the lower octaves,
If
> you could tune the 1 or 2 Mhz square wave then you could detune two TOS
> organs from each other, which would be kinda cool.  What Wouldn't be cool
> would be the fact that you'd only have square waves and that you'd only
have
> constant triggering for the filter that you had, IE your filter could
follow
> an ADSR that would gate when you pressed the first key, but any other keys
> you pressed would just come in without retriggering the filter, your VCA
> would have the same property.  The Korg Poly-800 overcomes this by having
a
> Multi-trigger switch that retriggers the filter ADSR with each key
pressed,
> I never use this function because I rarely like the results.
>
>          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
>
>
>
> >From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> >To: Paul Maddox <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
> >CC: Jon Darby <jdarby at lplizard.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >Subject: Re: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
> >Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:57:42 -0400
> >
> >Hi Paul (and all)
> >
> >I agree with 'most' of this... except the part about the Prophet V
choosing
> >the
> >economy approach (5 voices) as opposed to the common Top Octave Generator
> >of the day.
> >
> >The Top Octave Generator makes all the voices track the same exact
note...
> >to
> >arbitrary precision following the equally tempered scale. Usually it was
> >about
> >+/-
> >2.5 cents (100th of a semitone).  So all pitches were digitally locked to
> >each
> >other...
> >whatever beating there was between notes would be absolutely constant.
> >The Prophet V used microprocessor assisted tuning to keep all the voices
> >reasonably
> >the same, but still have random pitch fluctuations.  User specified
tunings
> >were
> >possible as well... making the P5 the axe of choice for most ethnic
> >music....
> >
> >Cross modulation would be very hard...  in fact most of the Prophet V
voice
> >patches would be next to impossible.
> >
> >Top octave generator usually says "electronic organ".  Few synths use
this
> >approach.  I think the Polymoog (strange beast that it is...) is one of
> >them
> >
> >The Matrix 6 from Oberheim used two high frequency VCO's to feed a
digital
> >pitch generation system.
> >
> >Why did I ever sell my P5 (oh yeah... no velocity, no midi and one note
> >short of
> >a guitar synth....)
> >
> >H^) harry
> >
> >
> >
> >Paul Maddox wrote:
> >
> > > Jon,
> > >
> > > >     I was rereading the old Penfold book today where it was
comparing
> > > modern
> > > > synthesis techniques to modern electronic organs. It mentioned the
> > > polyphony
> > > > is obtained from a single high frequency oscillation and divided
down
> >to
> > > the
> > > > appropriate frequency determined by the key pressed. My question is
> >what
> > > > module would be required per key to divide off the frequency of the
> >master
> > > > oscillator into the custom frequency before being mixed together to
> > > output?
> > >
> > > if you do it that way, just a divide by two circuit (4013 has two of
> >them).
> > > There are some disadvantages..
> > >
> > > > What parts are involved, another oscillator that oscillates at a
> >frequency
> > > > based on the frequency of the master? Hmmm, just curious how complex
> >of a
> > > > circuit is required at each key. Thanks a ton.
> > >
> > > the top octave generator (TOG) needs to generate the top octave, ie 12
> > > notes.
> > > each of these is then fed into a seirs of divide by two chips (4024
has
> >12
> > > stages , IIRC)
> > > so with a TOG and 12 4024's you could have 13 octaves..
> > > now heres the catch...
> > > you need a VCF and VCA and EG for EACH key, yes , EACH key....
> > > as each key is able to generate sound simply by pressing it you have
> > > unlimited polyphoney (as many keys as your keyboard has).
> > >
> > > Synth makers soon realised (back the early days) this would be far to
> >big
> > > and costly...
> > > so they used (in the case of the prophet5) 5 oscillators, each could
be
> > > assigned a note and it would play it..
> > > this meant you could have 5 notes playing at the same time , a MIRACLE
> >at
> > > the time...
> > > you would only need five oscillators (ok so you need more than the
other
> > > mothed which had one) but you now only need 5 VCFs and 5 VCAs, much
much
> > > less electronics that the other method..
> > > BUT you then had added complexity of voice assignment to contend
with...
> > >
> > > MOST synths now use the latter method, processors are cheap and fast
> >now,
> > > and 16note polyphonic assignment is easy enough to do. and most people
> >only
> > > have 10 fingers !
> > >
> > > Hope this helps a little
> > > Paul Maddox
> > > _______________________________________
> > > Wavesynth home page;-
> > >     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> > > Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> > >     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> > > PPG Synthesizer pages;-
> > >     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> > > Waveterm C Project page;-
> > >     Http://www.waveterm.com
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Aug 13 07:11:52 2001
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:11:52 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <78.1916434f.28a8bb98@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/12/2001 9:02:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
thom_s4 at hotmail.com writes:


> You could take the guts out of a bigger calc, and maybe convert the keys 
> into keypad switches to trigger a synth or something. We nerds just have to 
> make things difficult, huh?
> 

well, if you really want a _bigger_ calculator..I've been fixing up a HP 85A 
lately, which is a desktop style machine that runs HP standard basic and has 
a small built in CRT for graphing functions. It uses expansion slots to add 
rom drawers, and apparently there is a speech synth module for it. Probably 
difficult as &*# to find, but it exists.

-Chris
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From prototek at optonline.net  Mon Aug 13 10:16:28 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:16:28 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
Message-ID: <B79D051B.83E4%prototek@optonline.net>

   I'm considering all the different ways of applying the print/design on my
future projects. I'd appreciate some general opinions on the different
methods people have found useful.
   I'm especially curious about silk screening. Can a hobbyist do this at
home, or does it require serious machinery?

                       -Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon Aug 13 11:09:25 2001
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (GothGeek Sysadmin)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 02:09:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
In-Reply-To: <B79C5FCF.83B1%prototek@optonline.net>; from prototek@optonline.net on Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 04:31:12PM -0400
References: <B79C5FCF.83B1%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20010813020925.A53127@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 04:31:12PM -0400, Prototek wrote:
>    As you can probably tell by my signature phrase below, I'm a Kraftwerk
> fan. Their Computerworld album recently got me thinking about making a
> calculator that can trigger various "bleeps, bloops, etc..." by pressing
> down the right keys. Hell, maybe its even possible to put a SID 6581 in
> there? I know this whole concept sounds a little silly and far fetched, but
> I'm still curious about it.
>    What about the old TI calculators that could speak? Has anyone ever
> circuit bent those to produce interesting sounds?

I've never found one of the TI calculators that supposedly existed.
>From reading Wolfgang Flur's  Biography ( "I was a Robot", which I highly 
recommend ) he said the sounds came from a TI translator of some kind.

Interestingly enough, the intro sounds to Pocket Calculator are the same
sounds that a Speak'n'Spell makes if you just repeatedly hit the [on] button.
I went and found mine just to make sure that I was saying the right button...
I distinctly remember being able to make these things say a word that
you typed in but I cannot for the life of me remember how I did it.
It *has* been 20 years since I used one in school so I guess I can
chalk it up to impending old age... but if anyone else remembers how
without bending it I'd appreciate it.

As might be evident from one of my prior posts I'm facinated with the
older sounding Speech Synth units.  Something I've noticed is that if
you play a phoneme, just a single one, the brain seems to latch into some
mode where it gets ready to decode the speech it thinks is coming.
I'm trying to come up with an easier way to do this then what I'm doing
now... but using phonems as tones is quite promising.  I'm looking for an
older AI Cybernetics Model 1000 ( or a schematic and PROM dumps if anyone
happens to have something laying around...  I'd also be willing to make
a schematic and copy the proms if anyone wants to loan theirs :-)

Urm. I digressed... back to Kraftwerk...   I think what gets me the 
most about Kraftwerk is the simplicity of everything yet how whole it
feels.  I love the drum sounds and have been questing for recreating them
without resorting to PCM stuff.   While I do own a few samplers
( Ensoniq Mirages (3), Korg DSS1, and an MPC2000XL ) I prefer given the
choice creating the sound natively.  That being said, all my current
drum machines but one are PCM based.  The one that isnt is a Univox
Rhythm and of my recent investments I have to say its one of the most
satisfying... soon it will be Midi...  but I still dont have those
totally synthetic drums that Kraftwerk used so any suggestions
appreciated.

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From prototek at optonline.net  Mon Aug 13 12:19:31 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:19:31 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
In-Reply-To: <20010813020925.A53127@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <B79D21F3.83FA%prototek@optonline.net>

 but I still dont have those
> totally synthetic drums that Kraftwerk used so any suggestions
> appreciated.

   Hello,

   I've created many "Werker" percussion sounds, but only through the use of
modular synths. In particular, the Korg MS10/20/50 was a great combination
for achieving just about any of the snares imaginable. When you think about
it, their percussion sounds were quite simple....
I acheived the bass drum just from running an oscillator through my 2 pole
filter at extremely hi-rez. Once you're in the ball park it just takes a
little twiddling. Also, any synth with a noise source can make a snare
sound. Of course, the bigger the synth the better because you have more
ingredients to add. Hope this helps.

                   Cheers,
                   Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Aug 13 10:21:46 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:21:46
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
Message-ID: <200108131724.MAA59362850@smtppop3pub.verizon.net>

Many years ago, I bought an inexpensive organ circuit
board.  I think I got it from Jameco.  It had 12 
oscillators on it with a pot to tune each one.  It
also had a 4 output divider chip (TTL) for each oscillator.
I really should have bought several.  I used it as the
sound generator for a rudimentary sequencer.  It worked
very well until one day something fell on my setup (which
was admittedly hastily built and rather cheesey) and 
did something to fry it.  I never got it working again.
I should have just bought a couple more and do a better
job (like put it in a case).  I could see where two of
these could have provided a fat sound if tuned slightly
differently.

Oh well.

harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
>The Vox Jaguar used 12 high frequency oscillators with
>divider chains for each semitone.
>
>12 little circuit boards all screwed down across the length of
>the keyboard...
>
>H^) harry
>
>
>>From: Don Tillman <don at till.com>
>>To: phdinfunk at hotmail.com
>>CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
>>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>    From: "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
>>    Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:27:58 -0400
>>
>>    I was reading recently about TOS based organs, Thomas Organ Co.,
>>    Farfisa, Wersi, etc, The Vox Jaguar used a similer approach but
>>    didn't use a TOS IC so it didn't have JUST square waves I think.
>>
>>What did the Vox Jaguar do?
>>
>>Note that you're not stuck with square waves just because square waves
>>come out of the dividers.  You can sum octaves of square waves to get
>>a staircase, or you can use a cap, diode and resistor to get a half
>>exponential sawtooth.  The PolyMoog actually performs PWM on the
>>waves.
>>
>>    Basically the TOS ICs would divide a 1 or 2 Mhz square wave down to
>>    create the top octave then they would have other ICs to divide by
>>    2, 4, 8, 16 etc for the lower octaves, If you could tune the 1 or 2
>>    Mhz square wave then you could detune two TOS organs from each
>>    other, which would be kinda cool.
>>
>>The PolyMoog does this.  In several different ways.
>>
>>Another thing that the PolyMoog does is that it uses different divider
>>taps on the two Top Octave Generator ICs -- the second TOG chip is
>>clocked one semitone higher than the first TOG chip, and the outputs
>>are all corresponding shifted down a semitone.  This means that there
>>won't be an unnatural sync between the two TOG chips.  That's very
>>clever.
>>
>>(More details on my Moog Patents page:
>>   http://www.till.com/articles/moog/patents.html)
>>
>>   -- Don
>>
>>--
>>Don Tillman
>>Palo Alto, California, USA
>>don at till.com
>>http://www.till.com
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.

- If children are unable to read by the 4th grade, 
  then one must ask:  What are the teachers doing?

- Good parenting cannot be legislated.

- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

- If a public school system is required by law, then it's
  accountability must also be mandated and enforced by law.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
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From sdcurtin at agere.com  Mon Aug 13 15:54:15 2001
From: sdcurtin at agere.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:54:15 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
Message-ID: <87008FA36E57F041AB826576738ADF59382686@NJ8650EXCUAG01.ags.agere.com>

It seems like most of the technology for electronic synthesizers was taken
from other sources, which is consistent with musical instruments making use
of their age's technology.  A friend in the area used to work at an analog
computer manufacturer in Eatontown, NJ which is now defunct.  They had a
module there called an "arbitrary function generator", which sounds just
like an analog sequencer.  It had enough stages they were able to take two
of its outputs, attach them to the X and Y input of an oscilloscope, and
make detailed pictures on the phosphor.

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Agere Systems (formerly
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics)
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at agere.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	Grant Richter[SMTP:grichter at asapnet.net]
> Reply To: 	grichter at asapnet.net
> Sent: 	Friday, August 10, 2001 1:24 PM
> To: 	owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: 	[sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
> 
> I have always wondered if random voltage generators were developed for
> electronic music synthesizers. A book I recently discovered at the public
> library gives background on their development.
> 
> 


From krhen at stucki.com  Mon Aug 13 16:32:25 2001
From: krhen at stucki.com (Rhen, Kris)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:32:25 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] FS: Allan Strange - Electronic Music 2nd ed    was RE: [AH] Allen
	 Strange's "Bible" in PDF? Really
Message-ID: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A31919FFD@stu-nt1.stucki.com>

And on that note...

For Sale:  A copy of Allen Strange's Bible - Electronic Music: Systems,
Techniques and Controls, 2nd edition.  Good condition (this is actually the
one I just bought from J. Dec in his Dog Days of Summer book sale, simply
for the joy of reading it, and now I need my cash back.  And as such, I'll
offer Mr. Dec as my reference on this sale :-)  

Here's his writeup:

36. Electronic Music: Systems, Techniques, & Controls
By Allen Strange
1983, 2nd Edition, Softcover, 274 Pages
N-Mint to Mint Condition
If you thought the 1st edition of this book was superb, you'll
be blown away by the 2nd edition as it's almost a completely 
different book. Any serious synthesist will want to have both 
editions which together form the bible of analog modular synthesis 
theory. This edition has even more diagrams and illusrations, 
and has a large assortment of front panel shots of various modular
synth modules (Emu, Aries, Buchla, Moog)

PRICE = SOLD! 


$83 shipped.  Not looking to make anything, just recoup.  Thanks all
KRIS
 


**********************************************************************
This email and any files attached are confidential and
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From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 13 16:53:40 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:53:40 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <F2481Z82WqZNe3s9U6T00005fbb@hotmail.com>

If the calculator has an infrared output, a guitar pickup would pick that up 
:-)

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: "Scott Deyo" <thom_s4 at hotmail.com>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:40:35 -0500
>
>
>Well, those old TI calcs wouldn't be "pocket" calculators, they're too big!
>:)
>
>This probably isn't quite what you're looking for, but maybe: You can
>program the HP 28S to play music. So far I have mine playing stepped sine
>waves as various speeds, and in radian mode the same algorithm makes a
>strange near-patterned, near-random scalar thing happen. But it's not very
>easy to do, and there's no audio output, so you need to mic it or maybe 
>take
>it apart, which doesn't seem to be easy -- no screws :( I got the concept
>from an old Modern Electronics article. It's not in the manuals. Now, how
>can I make the Fibonacci sequence musical? :) It has an infrared output
>(ostensibly for a printer) which may be abstractly useful too.
>
>You could take the guts out of a bigger calc, and maybe convert the keys
>into keypad switches to trigger a synth or something. We nerds just have to
>make things difficult, huh?
>
>Good luck,
>Scott
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Prototek <prototek at optonline.net>
>To: Synth_diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 16:31:12 -0400
>
>    As you can probably tell by my signature phrase below, I'm a Kraftwerk
>fan. Their Computerworld album recently got me thinking about making a
>calculator that can trigger various "bleeps, bloops, etc..." by pressing
>down the right keys. Hell, maybe its even possible to put a SID 6581 in
>there? I know this whole concept sounds a little silly and far fetched, but
>I'm still curious about it.
>    What about the old TI calculators that could speak? Has anyone ever
>circuit bent those to produce interesting sounds?
>
>                            -Proto
>------
>"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
>Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator"
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 13 17:12:01 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:12:01 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
Message-ID: <F4ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUor00006063@hotmail.com>

The Vox Jaguar used 12 high frequency oscillators with
divider chains for each semitone.

12 little circuit boards all screwed down across the length of
the keyboard...

H^) harry


>From: Don Tillman <don at till.com>
>To: phdinfunk at hotmail.com
>CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
>
>    From: "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
>    Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:27:58 -0400
>
>    I was reading recently about TOS based organs, Thomas Organ Co.,
>    Farfisa, Wersi, etc, The Vox Jaguar used a similer approach but
>    didn't use a TOS IC so it didn't have JUST square waves I think.
>
>What did the Vox Jaguar do?
>
>Note that you're not stuck with square waves just because square waves
>come out of the dividers.  You can sum octaves of square waves to get
>a staircase, or you can use a cap, diode and resistor to get a half
>exponential sawtooth.  The PolyMoog actually performs PWM on the
>waves.
>
>    Basically the TOS ICs would divide a 1 or 2 Mhz square wave down to
>    create the top octave then they would have other ICs to divide by
>    2, 4, 8, 16 etc for the lower octaves, If you could tune the 1 or 2
>    Mhz square wave then you could detune two TOS organs from each
>    other, which would be kinda cool.
>
>The PolyMoog does this.  In several different ways.
>
>Another thing that the PolyMoog does is that it uses different divider
>taps on the two Top Octave Generator ICs -- the second TOG chip is
>clocked one semitone higher than the first TOG chip, and the outputs
>are all corresponding shifted down a semitone.  This means that there
>won't be an unnatural sync between the two TOG chips.  That's very
>clever.
>
>(More details on my Moog Patents page:
>   http://www.till.com/articles/moog/patents.html)
>
>   -- Don
>
>--
>Don Tillman
>Palo Alto, California, USA
>don at till.com
>http://www.till.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Aug 13 18:44:57 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:44:57 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] I am taking the plunge....ordering PC Boards (finally)
Message-ID: <3B780409.E0046C99@silcom.com>

    I just placed two orders for printed circuit cards.  I ordered wave
shaper and power supply boards.  I choose these because they are low
risk boards.

    Now I would also like one volunteer....I need somebody to look over
a schematic.  I have already found two blunders on it, one unconnected
wire, and a loop with positive feed back (yikes!).  Since I depend on
the schematic to be 100% accurate (when I lay out the PC boards, they
will match the schematic exactly, any errors in the schematic will be in
the board).  So here is the deal, you check over the schematic, I will
send you a PC board from the prototype run (this will give you incentive
to find any errors!).  If you want to do this, email me....thanks.

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Aug 13 22:25:47 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:25:47 -0700
Subject: Oh my Goodness! [was] [sdiy] I am taking the plunge....ordering PC
 Boards (finally)
References: <3B780409.E0046C99@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3B7837CB.8D3D2A04@silcom.com>


    Thank you to all those who voluntered....in fact, I was close to
overwhelmed.  I have kept a list of those who responded for future
reference, in case I need something like this done again.  All I can say is
Synth-DIY is Great!

patchell wrote:

>     Now I would also like one volunteer....I need somebody to look over
> a schematic.  I have already found two blunders on it, one unconnected
> wire, and a loop with positive feed back (yikes!).  Since I depend on
> the schematic to be 100% accurate (when I lay out the PC boards, they
> will match the schematic exactly, any errors in the schematic will be in
> the board).  So here is the deal, you check over the schematic, I will
> send you a PC board from the prototype run (this will give you incentive
> to find any errors!).  If you want to do this, email me....thanks.
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From jhaible at t-online.de  Mon Aug 13 22:48:29 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:48:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <200108130411.VAA17043@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <000701c1248f$79a58b20$8d7be03e@debitel.net>

> Another thing that the PolyMoog does is that it uses different divider
> taps on the two Top Octave Generator ICs -- the second TOG chip is
> clocked one semitone higher than the first TOG chip, and the outputs
> are all corresponding shifted down a semitone.  This means that there
> won't be an unnatural sync between the two TOG chips.  That's very
> clever.

Indeed !

I didn't know that - and Korg obviously didn't know either when they
built the Lambda. 3 HF-VCOs with 3 TOS chips, but you have to
tune them considerably apart to avoid locking. Does not hurt much for
typical Strings, where detuning is so much that locking is no problem,
but nevertheless ...

JH.





From atom at suspicious.org  Mon Aug 13 23:59:11 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:59:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
In-Reply-To: <87008FA36E57F041AB826576738ADF59382686@NJ8650EXCUAG01.ags.agere.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108131748020.3022-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

i'm not sure how "random" this is, or if it's documented anywhere, but
it's a simple circuit i "discovered" accidently, some years ago.

Z< = zener diode

       V+                   V-
	-----Z<--+--Z<-------
                 |
                 |
                 |
               noise

use 2 zener diodes, of equal spec, reverse-biased, in series. the voltage
across both diodes should be equal to, or less than, the rated reverse
voltage ~per~ diode.

		ie: if the diodes are speced at 10V each, the total
		across the circuit should be 5-10V.

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me,
	 but it can keep him from lynching me,
	 and I think that's pretty important."
		-- Martin Luther King, Jr.




From thomas at roundhouse.se  Tue Aug 14 00:00:27 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:00:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <v04220803b79dfe5c2eb0@[213.112.172.227]>

Proto:
   As you can probably tell by my signature phrase below, I'm a Kraftwerk fan. Their Computerworld album recently got
me thinking about making a calculator that can trigger various "bleeps, bloops, etc..." by pressing down the right
keys. Hell, maybe its even possible to put a SID 6581 in there? I know this whole concept sounds a little silly and far
fetched, but I'm still curious about it.
   What about the old TI calculators that could speak? Has anyone ever circuit bent those to produce interesting sounds?


The Casio VL-Tone is a calculator and a small synth,
all-in-one.

Take a look at:
http://www.keyboardmag.com/features/vintagegear/vgear0104.shtml

I recently bought one, mainly out of nostalgic reasons,
but also because it has a nice computer game-like sound. :-)

/Thomas

___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From atom at suspicious.org  Tue Aug 14 00:17:58 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:17:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
In-Reply-To: <B79D051B.83E4%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108131805540.3022-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

>    I'm considering all the different ways of applying the print/design on my
> future projects. I'd appreciate some general opinions on the different
> methods people have found useful.
>    I'm especially curious about silk screening. Can a hobbyist do this at
> home, or does it require serious machinery?
===================================

my 303 http://smasher.suspicious.org/303/ uses "reverse printed lexan".

it's reasonable for low volume. it uses a sheet of lexan-plastic (the
stuff the bullet-proof glass is made of) and prints the image on the back
of it, then adhesive is put behind that.

the finished product is thin, easy to drill, and the only part that is
exposed to the world, is an impenetrable plastic sheet. most places that
do it, can do the plastic in flat or "velvet" finish, with almost any
number of colors, transparent parts and windows.

i got mine done by MaverickLabel.Com. they did good work, but they were
assholes. if i do it again, i'll find some other place. thomas-register
has ~lots~ of leads for this.

http://pfl.labelserve.com/control.html

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Treat us good, we'll treat you better.
	 Treat us bad, we'll treat you worse."
		-- motto of The Blue Blaze Irregulars




From thomas at roundhouse.se  Tue Aug 14 00:37:36 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:37:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
In-Reply-To: <B79D051B.83E4%prototek@optonline.net>
References: <B79D051B.83E4%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <v04220804b79dfebd4593@[213.112.172.227]>

   I'm considering all the different ways of applying the print/design on my future projects. I'd appreciate some
general opinions on the different methods people have found useful.
   I'm especially curious about silk screening. Can a hobbyist do this at home, or does it require serious machinery?

                       -Proto

I don't know that much about silkscreening, but if it
was easy, I thin a lot more DIY people would use it for
their panels. From what I've gathered, not that many people
do and therefore it's probaby a bit more advanced that
"a piece of cake"(?)

Most DIY'ers that I've come in contact with use one of
the following methods for designing their panels:

1) Design the panel in a paint program on a computer
   and print it on addhessive paper . Stick the paper
   on to the panel and use some form of coating to make
   it smear-proof and durable. An alternative is using
   other types of film/paper for inkjets. I can't give
   any examples since I haven't used them myself, but
   I've seen them on the Internet and in photo stores.

   J?rgen Bergfors has used this method for his
   Bergfotron, see:
   http://www.idg.se/personal/bergfors/bergfotron/mek.htm

2) Order the panels from a company that makes them.
   Expensive as hell, but you get what you want; drilled
   holes and all.
   An example: http://www.schaeffer-apparatebau.de/

3) Say: "to hell with fancy design!" and use a labeling
   machine to churn out rough labels that you stick to
   the corresponding pot, jack or switch. Hard core and
   ugly, but cheap. Good for prototypes and machines
   that are not built to be seen. :-)

4) Etching the letters into the panel using chemicals.
   I've seen recipies for this if you are using brass
   panels. It involves a lot of chemicals and you will
   need a steady hand since you have to scratch the
   panels by hand into some sort of wax coating that
   you put on the panels before you put them into the
   chemical bath. Extreme panel hard core if you ask
   me. ;-)

There are probably tons of other good methods that other
DIY'ers have come up with and I too would like to hear
of good and not-so-good methods since I too soon will
have to start making panel designs for my SAS modular.

/Thomas

___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From dgm at baykitty.com  Tue Aug 14 01:27:36 2001
From: dgm at baykitty.com (Don Morgan)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:27:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <v04220804b79dfebd4593@[213.112.172.227]>
Message-ID: <NDBBKCKHGLPNLEFPAEINGEGDDFAA.dgm@baykitty.com>


unsubscribe


From prototek at optonline.net  Tue Aug 14 02:32:43 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:32:43 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
In-Reply-To: <v04220804b79dfebd4593@[213.112.172.227]>
Message-ID: <B79DE9EB.843B%prototek@optonline.net>

   Hey guys,

   Thanks for all the responses. I ended up deciding(at least for now!!) on
using the Toner Transfer method(TTF). From what I've seen it yields pretty
excellent results. Of course there are the down sides like trying not to rip
the VERY sensitive paper whilst applying it to the faceplate. Oh well, I'll
keep you posted.

P.S. The best source I've found for "faceplating" info is at fellow DIY'er
Steven Thomas' page:
http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm


                   Thanks,
                   proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From prototek at optonline.net  Tue Aug 14 02:39:36 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:39:36 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
In-Reply-To: <F142eeFUtLch9wPiyAp000058da@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B79DEB88.843C%prototek@optonline.net>

   Great suggestions by Dr. Strangelove. I was just browsing through the
Digi-Key catalog I received today and spotted some really sweet looking
keypads. If you have catalog number "TO12," then go to pages 523 and 524.
Does anyone know if any of these would work? I guess the main question is,
how would I get those keys to trigger the sounds? I've never worked in the
realm of keypads and the like so I welcome any guidance/ideas.

                           keep computing,
                           proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Aug 14 03:30:46 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:30:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
In-Reply-To: <87008FA36E57F041AB826576738ADF59382686@NJ8650EXCUAG01.ags.agere.com>
Message-ID: <B79DE976.218E2%grichter@asapnet.net>

Interestingly, the primary financial incentive for development of analogue
computers dates back to the 1500's. As far as I can tell, rapid solution to
the multivariable equation of cannon shell trajectory provided the initial
funding. (shell weight, powder charge, barrel angle and wind effects into
distance)

Aiming guns then provided most of the funding for research for the next 400
years. Initial analogue computers were mechanical, but electrical designs
were used as quickly as possible. WWII battleships had analog gun control
computers.

The transition from military to industrial use probably occurred when
military designers went back to peacetime work.

In this case, it is not swords into ploughshares, but gun controls into
musical instruments. Any reasonable sized modular could still be used to
solve cannon trajectories (in a pinch ;^)

> 
> It seems like most of the technology for electronic synthesizers was taken
> from other sources, which is consistent with musical instruments making use
> of their age's technology.  A friend in the area used to work at an analog
> computer manufacturer in Eatontown, NJ which is now defunct.  They had a
> module there called an "arbitrary function generator", which sounds just
> like an analog sequencer.  It had enough stages they were able to take two
> of its outputs, attach them to the X and Y input of an oscilloscope, and
> make detailed pictures on the phosphor.
> 




From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Aug 14 03:41:28 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:41:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
In-Reply-To: <B79DEB88.843C%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <B79DEBF8.218E6%grichter@asapnet.net>

John Simonton had a great design for a matrix scanning keyboard dating back
to the 4700 series. It was very simple to implement, only two CD4051s and a
counter (very vaguely remembered) and the design automatically made an
arpeggiator.

It was the alternative to the 4700 keyboard with the computer. It used a DAC
to make the output voltage. Does anyone have a copy they could scan? Or know
where one is on the net (http://www.paia.com maybe).

It really was very simple and extremely clever, like many of John's designs.

From: Prototek <prototek at optonline.net>
Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:39:36 -0400
To: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Calculator Synth


   Great suggestions by Dr. Strangelove. I was just browsing through the
Digi-Key catalog I received today and spotted some really sweet looking
keypads. If you have catalog number "TO12," then go to pages 523 and 524.
Does anyone know if any of these would work? I guess the main question is,
how would I get those keys to trigger the sounds? I've never worked in the
realm of keypads and the like so I welcome any guidance/ideas.

                          keep computing,
                          proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator"



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From metamaticdiy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 04:29:42 2001
From: metamaticdiy at yahoo.com (R.D. Hess)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
In-Reply-To: <B79DEBF8.218E6%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <20010814022942.99786.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net> wrote:
> John Simonton had a great design for a matrix
> scanning keyboard dating back
> to the 4700 series. It was very simple to implement,
> only two CD4051s and a
> counter (very vaguely remembered) and the design
> automatically made an
> arpeggiator.
> 
> It was the alternative to the 4700 keyboard with the
> computer. It used a DAC
> to make the output voltage. Does anyone have a copy
> they could scan? Or know
> where one is on the net (http://www.paia.com maybe).
> 
> It really was very simple and extremely clever, like
> many of John's designs.
> 

 Sounds like the 8782, which is conveniently located
at:

http://omega.tellus.vallentuna.se/anders/pdf/8782a.pdf

 Rich

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Aug 14 05:28:37 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:28:37 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
References: <B79DEB88.843C%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3B789AE3.830F4D3@prodigy.net>

Most of these keypads have a matrix output... so there are row and
column
traces... like a 3 x 4 line array for a 12 position keypad. This is very
common.

You will have to decode this with some scanning system. Its not really
very
hard to do... but what output do you want from the keypad ??? CV... MIDI
???

Is the sound to be onboard, or is this a controller ???

H^) harry

Prototek wrote:

>    Great suggestions by Dr. Strangelove. I was just browsing through
> the Digi-Key catalog I received today and spotted some really sweet
> looking keypads. If you have catalog number "TO12," then go to pages
> 523 and 524. Does anyone know if any of these would work? I guess the
> main question is, how would I get those keys to trigger the sounds?
> I've never worked in the realm of keypads and the like so I welcome
> any guidance/ideas.
>
>                            keep computing,
>                            proto
> ------
> "By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
> Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator"



From tpaddock at seanet.com  Tue Aug 14 05:31:59 2001
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:31:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
Message-ID: <01C12437.1BDF3A20@dialup-63.214.10.127.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net>

These are a couple posts from June 98. I know since then
this trophy shop has gotten more into laser stuff. They burn
the paint off leaving silver letters on a colored background.
The metal panels I saw were too thin to use without some backing.

And I have a question... What would DIY'ers do for panels and
labels in the 50s and 60s? I'd like to make a panel
that kind of looks like a homemade project from back then.
(If I can resist using LEDs and mini toggle switches).

Thanks,
Toby Paddock

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sorry if this has been covered before...

At work I saw some panels that were done by a trophy shop.
They're normally for plaques and awards, but this guy was
using them for test equipment panels.  Colored graphics on
very thin brushed aluminum.  He emails the graphics to the
shop and picks up the panels the next day.
>From what I understand, it's kind of like an industrial strength
t-shirt transfer process.
I think the price was about $25US for a 10 x 10 inch (ouch).

Hoping this finds you,
Toby Paddock
- -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -
http://www.seanet.com/~tpaddock
Pronteon Approved,
not a museum of radioactive ore samples


 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

More vague mumblings about front panels made by a trophy shop...

A guy at work is having test equipment panels made by a shop that has a 
process for doing award plaques and such.
He left a couple samples on my desk.  I measure them to be about .025 inch 
thick aluminum.  Would need to stick them on something heavier.  Almost 
thick enough maybe for a very small panel.  I think this is an 
industrial-strength heat transfer T-shirt type process.

Sample 1:   Black letters on brushed aluminum.  Fairly sharp detail on the 
letters.  Feels like a thin plastic coating.  Smooth, I can't feel the 
letters.  I can't seem to mark it at all with my fingernail.  I can scratch 
it using the other piece of aluminum, of course.  Once scratched, I can not 
get it to keep pealing with my fingernail.

Sample 2:   Multi-colored graphic.  Looks cool.  Brushed aluminum shows 
through the light colors (nice effect).  Looks kind of half-tone where the 
colors blend.  Like a inkjet printer, which I think it is.  No horizontal 
bars like an inkjet sometimes does.  Same coating.  Could make a very 
pretty panel.


They are also using a laser on a painted panel to burn off the paint where 
the letters are.  (Metal letters on a paint background.)  Or where the 
letters aren't... (Paint letters on metal background.)  I have not seen any 
of these.

When I get a chance, I will go to the shop and take a look.  I think they 
are just having too much fun with this.

Hoping this finds you,
Toby Paddock
- -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -
http://www.seanet.com/~tpaddock
Pronteon Approved,
Not a farm machinery demolition-derby newsletter

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -




From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 14 06:48:01 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:48:01 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <F40GVYp21opxTQ5Aqol00006bb6@hotmail.com>

If you made the sound source onboard and made the keyboard output a 1v/Oct 
control source then would you be able to have a small power source that 
would fit inside the little device that would still be stable enough to keep 
your osc(s) tracking?, maybe they'd only have to track an octave or so.

I've been powering oscs and filters on proto-boards from battery power 
supplies.  They do oscillate and filter like they should but they don't seem 
super stable (filter cutoff affects Osc tuning sometimes, if I haven't 
changed the batteries, etc).

It's really a tough call but, over all, my ideal of a "Pocket Calculator" 
Synth should be as close to completely self contained as possible.  It's a 
funny thing but I think my DR-110 Drum Machine is useful mostly because I 
can just take it anywhere and play it with batteries, through headphones.

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>To: Prototek <prototek at optonline.net>
>CC: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:28:37 -0400
>
>Most of these keypads have a matrix output... so there are row and
>column
>traces... like a 3 x 4 line array for a 12 position keypad. This is very
>common.
>
>You will have to decode this with some scanning system. Its not really
>very
>hard to do... but what output do you want from the keypad ??? CV... MIDI
>???
>
>Is the sound to be onboard, or is this a controller ???
>
>H^) harry
>
>Prototek wrote:
>
> >    Great suggestions by Dr. Strangelove. I was just browsing through
> > the Digi-Key catalog I received today and spotted some really sweet
> > looking keypads. If you have catalog number "TO12," then go to pages
> > 523 and 524. Does anyone know if any of these would work? I guess the
> > main question is, how would I get those keys to trigger the sounds?
> > I've never worked in the realm of keypads and the like so I welcome
> > any guidance/ideas.
> >
> >                            keep computing,
> >                            proto
> > ------
> > "By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
> > Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator"
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From KHeck73 at aol.com  Tue Aug 14 07:10:28 2001
From: KHeck73 at aol.com (KHeck73 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:10:28 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
Message-ID: <112.3215853.28aa0cc4@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/13/2001 9:33:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
grichter at asapnet.net writes:


> Aiming guns then provided most of the funding for research for the next 400
> years. Initial analogue computers were mechanical, but electrical designs
> were used as quickly as possible. WWII battleships had analog gun control
> computers.
> 

The ENIAC computer (first electronic) was designed to calculate artillery 
trajectories, and was used at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland. It was 
full of flip flops and decade counters, so you could probably get some 
interesting sounds out of it :). (That tube sound, too!).

On random number generation, I can't help but think that some methods 
probably have roots in gambling? 

-Karl.
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From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 14 07:20:10 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:20:10 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
Message-ID: <F140bcaQUXPXF2aZcdj00000b91@hotmail.com>

Actually I had said that the Vox Jaguar does something different.  I meant 
the Vox Continental (hmm, this sounds like some sort of suspicious 
backpeddling to save face).  It uses high frequency Hartley Oscillators 
(Signal tapped from a split inductance in a resonant circuit), and a strange 
sort of divider circuit to derive the lower octaves.  The wierd thing about 
it is that I think it outputs something besides square waves, The Jaguar 
sounds like square waves though.....  Kinda like a beefed up thomas organ 
but with a vox vibrato.  I've heard both of them, in, errrr, samples I've 
tracked with  :-).

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: "Happy Harry" <paia2720 at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: harrybissell at prodigy.net
>To: don at till.com, phdinfunk at hotmail.com
>CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:12:01 +0000
>
>The Vox Jaguar used 12 high frequency oscillators with
>divider chains for each semitone.
>
>12 little circuit boards all screwed down across the length of
>the keyboard...
>
>H^) harry
>
>
>>From: Don Tillman <don at till.com>
>>To: phdinfunk at hotmail.com
>>CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
>>Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>    From: "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
>>    Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:27:58 -0400
>>
>>    I was reading recently about TOS based organs, Thomas Organ Co.,
>>    Farfisa, Wersi, etc, The Vox Jaguar used a similer approach but
>>    didn't use a TOS IC so it didn't have JUST square waves I think.
>>
>>What did the Vox Jaguar do?
>>
>>Note that you're not stuck with square waves just because square waves
>>come out of the dividers.  You can sum octaves of square waves to get
>>a staircase, or you can use a cap, diode and resistor to get a half
>>exponential sawtooth.  The PolyMoog actually performs PWM on the
>>waves.
>>
>>    Basically the TOS ICs would divide a 1 or 2 Mhz square wave down to
>>    create the top octave then they would have other ICs to divide by
>>    2, 4, 8, 16 etc for the lower octaves, If you could tune the 1 or 2
>>    Mhz square wave then you could detune two TOS organs from each
>>    other, which would be kinda cool.
>>
>>The PolyMoog does this.  In several different ways.
>>
>>Another thing that the PolyMoog does is that it uses different divider
>>taps on the two Top Octave Generator ICs -- the second TOG chip is
>>clocked one semitone higher than the first TOG chip, and the outputs
>>are all corresponding shifted down a semitone.  This means that there
>>won't be an unnatural sync between the two TOG chips.  That's very
>>clever.
>>
>>(More details on my Moog Patents page:
>>   http://www.till.com/articles/moog/patents.html)
>>
>>   -- Don
>>
>>--
>>Don Tillman
>>Palo Alto, California, USA
>>don at till.com
>>http://www.till.com
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From dh at synthstuff.com  Tue Aug 14 08:05:49 2001
From: dh at synthstuff.com (David Halliday)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:05:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
In-Reply-To: <v04220804b79dfebd4593@[213.112.172.227]>
Message-ID: <001601c12487$2b5ec2e0$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>

Silkscreening is fairly easy but it is really geared to making many copies
of one thing rather than making one-off designs; although you can lay out a
number of panels on one screen and then just use masking tape and brown
paper to block the unused areas.

One issue is that the screen needs to be of a fairly fine mesh ( 80 to 120
threads per inch ) in order to get crisp lettering - there are "textile"
screens available for cheap but these are more for tee-shirts and the like
and the results are very unsatisfactory. Major case of the jaggies and it's
easy to smudge the image.

A good screen will cost some money but they can be reused many times if you
treat it well.

Your best bet would be to find a commercial screen printing place and see
what you can offer for trade.  Maybe the owner would like a small synth or
some bit of custom electronics.  It *is* possible to do everything at home
but it is much better and cheaper to have the commercial exposure units, the
developing sinks ( this is very messy ) etc...  Offer to buy a screen for
your own use and work around the printers schedule.



-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Thomas Kahn
-> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:38 PM
-> To: Prototek
-> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> Subject: Re:[sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
->
->
->    I'm considering all the different ways of applying the
-> print/design on my future projects. I'd appreciate some
-> general opinions on the different methods people have found useful.
->    I'm especially curious about silk screening. Can a
-> hobbyist do this at home, or does it require serious machinery?
->
->                        -Proto
->
-> I don't know that much about silkscreening, but if it
-> was easy, I thin a lot more DIY people would use it for
-> their panels. From what I've gathered, not that many people
-> do and therefore it's probaby a bit more advanced that
-> "a piece of cake"(?)
->
-> Most DIY'ers that I've come in contact with use one of
-> the following methods for designing their panels:
->
-> 1) Design the panel in a paint program on a computer
->    and print it on addhessive paper . Stick the paper
->    on to the panel and use some form of coating to make
->    it smear-proof and durable. An alternative is using
->    other types of film/paper for inkjets. I can't give
->    any examples since I haven't used them myself, but
->    I've seen them on the Internet and in photo stores.
->
->    J?rgen Bergfors has used this method for his
->    Bergfotron, see:
->    http://www.idg.se/personal/bergfors/bergfotron/mek.htm
->
-> 2) Order the panels from a company that makes them.
->    Expensive as hell, but you get what you want; drilled
->    holes and all.
->    An example: http://www.schaeffer-apparatebau.de/
->
-> 3) Say: "to hell with fancy design!" and use a labeling
->    machine to churn out rough labels that you stick to
->    the corresponding pot, jack or switch. Hard core and
->    ugly, but cheap. Good for prototypes and machines
->    that are not built to be seen. :-)
->
-> 4) Etching the letters into the panel using chemicals.
->    I've seen recipies for this if you are using brass
->    panels. It involves a lot of chemicals and you will
->    need a steady hand since you have to scratch the
->    panels by hand into some sort of wax coating that
->    you put on the panels before you put them into the
->    chemical bath. Extreme panel hard core if you ask
->    me. ;-)
->
-> There are probably tons of other good methods that other
-> DIY'ers have come up with and I too would like to hear
-> of good and not-so-good methods since I too soon will
-> have to start making panel designs for my SAS modular.
->
-> /Thomas
->
-> ___________________________________
-> Thomas Kahn
-> Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
-> ICQ: 19705911
-> WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
-> MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn
->



From mclilith at ezwv.com  Tue Aug 14 08:55:13 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 02:55:13 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <F140bcaQUXPXF2aZcdj00000b91@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B78CB50.B585AB7B@ezwv.com>



Dr Strangelove wrote:

> Actually I had said that the Vox Jaguar does something different.  I meant
> the Vox Continental (hmm, this sounds like some sort of suspicious
> backpeddling to save face).  It uses high frequency Hartley Oscillators
> (Signal tapped from a split inductance in a resonant circuit), and a strange
> sort of divider circuit to derive the lower octaves.  The wierd thing about
> it is that I think it outputs something besides square waves, The Jaguar
> sounds like square waves though.....  Kinda like a beefed up thomas organ
> but with a vox vibrato.  I've heard both of them, in, errrr, samples I've
> tracked with  :-).

I happen to have a Vox Super-Continental. I can definitely confirm that this
particular model has 12 high frequency oscillators, and uses divider circuitry
to generate the lower pitches from those 12 reference pitches. I  can't verify
the type of divider circuitry, except that I don't believe there are IC's in
this organ. I also can't verify what types of waveforms are generated, at least
not from memory.

However, I can confirm that this model has both "bright" and "dark" drawbars
(refers to tonal properties, not appearance.) Also, don't forget that this organ
has "mixture" drawbars - something that a Hammond didn't have. These will
definitely not be producing a simple square wave with each note played, although
they might indeed be derived from square waves, for all I know.

I'm not at home, so I don't have access to the organ at this moment. If anyone
seems interested, I'll try and confirm more details about the circuitry in a day
or two.

As for Thomas organs, which model are you referring to? Thomas made a *lot* of
different organs, and there was a wide variety of sound qualities and circuit
designs represented during their history.


Later,
Glen



From dh at synthstuff.com  Tue Aug 14 09:05:52 2001
From: dh at synthstuff.com (David Halliday)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:05:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
In-Reply-To: <01C12437.1BDF3A20@dialup-63.214.10.127.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net>
Message-ID: <001901c1248f$8ed48460$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>

There was a product called Scotchcal which is totally different from the
current Scotchcal marketed by 3M ( a semi-transparent window tinting film ).
It was a photosensitive material available on either film or anodized Al
sheet.  There was a colored pigment on top and when you exposed it to light,
the pigment would polymerize, when you developed it, the unpolymerized
material would be washed away leaving the base color.

Nice stuff to work with and the aluminum sheets were self-adhesive so you
could stick them to a rack panel.  Include a cross-hair for your centerpunch
and you could get the holes drilled with a good measure of accuracy.

Do not know why it was discontinued - this happened about fifteen years ago.




-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Toby Paddock
-> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:32 PM
-> To: Synth_diy
-> Subject: RE: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
->
->
-> These are a couple posts from June 98. I know since then
-> this trophy shop has gotten more into laser stuff. They burn
-> the paint off leaving silver letters on a colored background.
-> The metal panels I saw were too thin to use without some backing.
->
-> And I have a question... What would DIY'ers do for panels and
-> labels in the 50s and 60s? I'd like to make a panel
-> that kind of looks like a homemade project from back then.
-> (If I can resist using LEDs and mini toggle switches).
->
-> Thanks,
-> Toby Paddock
->
->  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
->  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
->
-> Sorry if this has been covered before...
->
-> At work I saw some panels that were done by a trophy shop.
-> They're normally for plaques and awards, but this guy was
-> using them for test equipment panels.  Colored graphics on
-> very thin brushed aluminum.  He emails the graphics to the
-> shop and picks up the panels the next day.
-> From what I understand, it's kind of like an industrial strength
-> t-shirt transfer process.
-> I think the price was about $25US for a 10 x 10 inch (ouch).
->
-> Hoping this finds you,
-> Toby Paddock
-> - -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -
-> http://www.seanet.com/~tpaddock
-> Pronteon Approved,
-> not a museum of radioactive ore samples
->
->
->  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
->  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
->
-> More vague mumblings about front panels made by a trophy shop...
->
-> A guy at work is having test equipment panels made by a shop
-> that has a
-> process for doing award plaques and such.
-> He left a couple samples on my desk.  I measure them to be
-> about .025 inch
-> thick aluminum.  Would need to stick them on something
-> heavier.  Almost
-> thick enough maybe for a very small panel.  I think this is an
-> industrial-strength heat transfer T-shirt type process.
->
-> Sample 1:   Black letters on brushed aluminum.  Fairly sharp
-> detail on the
-> letters.  Feels like a thin plastic coating.  Smooth, I
-> can't feel the
-> letters.  I can't seem to mark it at all with my fingernail.
->  I can scratch
-> it using the other piece of aluminum, of course.  Once
-> scratched, I can not
-> get it to keep pealing with my fingernail.
->
-> Sample 2:   Multi-colored graphic.  Looks cool.  Brushed
-> aluminum shows
-> through the light colors (nice effect).  Looks kind of
-> half-tone where the
-> colors blend.  Like a inkjet printer, which I think it is.
-> No horizontal
-> bars like an inkjet sometimes does.  Same coating.  Could
-> make a very
-> pretty panel.
->
->
-> They are also using a laser on a painted panel to burn off
-> the paint where
-> the letters are.  (Metal letters on a paint background.)  Or
-> where the
-> letters aren't... (Paint letters on metal background.)  I
-> have not seen any
-> of these.
->
-> When I get a chance, I will go to the shop and take a look.
-> I think they
-> are just having too much fun with this.
->
-> Hoping this finds you,
-> Toby Paddock
-> - -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -
-> http://www.seanet.com/~tpaddock
-> Pronteon Approved,
-> Not a farm machinery demolition-derby newsletter
->
->  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
->  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
->
->
->



From ka4hjh at gte.net  Tue Aug 14 10:07:27 2001
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 04:07:27 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
In-Reply-To: <B79DE976.218E2%grichter@asapnet.net>
References: <B79DE976.218E2%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04320403b79e89eb09b0@[63.23.233.247]>

>Initial analogue computers were mechanical, but electrical designs
>were used as quickly as possible. WWII battleships had analog gun control
>computers.

BTW, one of the interesting things C.L. Stong did in the "Amateur
Scientist" column we discussed recently was to build a mechanical analog
computer that plotted the results on paper (sort of like a spirograph on
steroids). Man, was that cool. Pretty much required a machine shop to
build, though.

I suppose next someone could build a mechanical analog synth (I picture the
front panel work of the Bergfotron on steroids) that saves the results by
cutting grooves in a plastic disc like the RCA Mark II. Wouldn't even
require any tubes or BBD's to operate...

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Tue Aug 14 10:12:16 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:12:16 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AEFCB@exchange1.intermetall.de>

I've read about using a low excess noise resistor in
order to get thermal noise. I know a fellow that build such a
thing for his thesis, to get better random numbers.
Of course you need high gain amplification and good shielding.

Let me see, RMS noise voltage of an ideal resistor is (if I'm not
altzheimering here):

U=SQRT{k*T*R*B}

B=20kHz (1/s)
k=1.38E-23 J/K (V*A*s/K)
R=10 Meg Ohm (V/A)
T=300K

U=28uV, the peak level is about 3 times higher 86uV.
Putting 10 R in series, we will get only about 3 times
higher...

Perhaps this can be done, exploiting the very low input noise
currents of JFET or MOSFET amps.

I wonder how white this noise may be, and how much 1/f
there is.

Has someone made experiences what this means in music
applications other than the audio band (trigger source etc.).

m.c.



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 10:12:27 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:12:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <200108130411.VAA17043@shell9.ba.best.com> <000701c1248f$79a58b20$8d7be03e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <00d701c12499$ac63c360$390887d9@default>

>I didn't know that - and Korg obviously didn't know either when they
built the Lambda. 3 HF-VCOs with 3 TOS chips....

And the good Dr Luce patented the idea for Moog. Although the Lambda may
have come out before then.

I must say the polymoog does sound incredibly rich... with none of the
nastiness associated with the BBD designs. Of course, the polymoog is
much heavier as a result. Have I told you before how heavy the polymoog
is... :-)

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From prototek at optonline.net  Tue Aug 14 11:16:43 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 05:16:43 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
In-Reply-To: <3B789AE3.830F4D3@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <B79E64BB.8457%prototek@optonline.net>


> You will have to decode this with some scanning system. Its not really
> very
> hard to do... but what output do you want from the keypad ??? CV... MIDI
> ???

   Believe it or not, I'm not thinking of outputting anything from the
keypad at this point. If size permits maybe I would do CV/Gate.
   Right now I plan on using it as a live instrument, so triggering is not a
number one priority.

> Is the sound to be onboard, or is this a controller ???

   Well I would really like the sounds to be onboard. However I would
probably also create a controller version, but thats if the sound module
version turns out OK.

                   -Proto
   
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From sasami at blaze.net.au  Tue Aug 14 12:15:12 2001
From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:15:12 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <200108141015.f7EAF9A84820@blaze.net.au>

A 74c923 keyboard decoder chip can look after the scanning of a 4x5 array of
switches, and outputs a binary value. Couple it to a DAC, and you are done.
It even supplies a "trigger" signal when a key is pressed. I think someone
used this as a basis for a set of foor pedals ala Taurus too.

Ken

 
>Most of these keypads have a matrix output... so there are row and
>column
>traces... like a 3 x 4 line array for a 12 position keypad. This is very
>common.
>
>You will have to decode this with some scanning system. Its not really
>very
>hard to do... but what output do you want from the keypad ??? CV... MIDI
>???
>
>Is the sound to be onboard, or is this a controller ???
>
>H^) harry
>
>Prototek wrote:
>
>>    Great suggestions by Dr. Strangelove. I was just browsing through
>> the Digi-Key catalog I received today and spotted some really sweet
>> looking keypads. If you have catalog number "TO12," then go to pages
>> 523 and 524. Does anyone know if any of these would work? I guess the
>> main question is, how would I get those keys to trigger the sounds?
>> I've never worked in the realm of keypads and the like so I welcome
>> any guidance/ideas.
>>
>>                            keep computing,
>>                            proto
>> ------
>> "By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
>> Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator"
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From tpaddock at seanet.com  Tue Aug 14 11:35:43 2001
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (tpaddock at seanet.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:35:43 US/Pacific
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
Message-ID: <200108141835.f7EIZhB02135@dns2.seanet.com>

Harry,
But when dymo labels fell off you could still 
read the letters in the fossilized goo. :)
I was kind of wondering what was pre-dymo?
Maybe I'm thinking 40s-50s instead of 50s-60s.
Punch letters on copper strips and "age" in 
salt water? H2O2? Cola?

I bet dymo dates back farther than I think. 
Maybe I'll hit it with a heat gun to fade 
it out a bit. (If I can find some) Nothing 
says high-class like woodgrain dymo.

Thanks,
Toby Paddock
PS- I just checked ebay and sure 
enough, there's lots of *vintage* Dymo.

Harry wrote:
> If you want an authentic 60's look use labelmaker
> plastic tape once made by Dymo. Don't know if it
> still exists. It embossed litters into a thick
> plastic self adhesive tape.  It looked awful but
> I saw a LOT of homebuilt projects using it...
> 
> Used it myself... eventually the adhesive dries
> out and the labels fall off... leaving a sticky
> residue behind.
> 
> H^) harry
> 




From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Tue Aug 14 13:59:29 2001
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:59:29 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C793D@hati.kapsch.co.at>

>A 74c923 keyboard decoder chip can look after the scanning of a 4x5
array of
>switches, and outputs a binary value. Couple it to a DAC, and you are
done.
>It even supplies a "trigger" signal when a key is pressed. I think
someone
>used this as a basis for a set of foor pedals ala Taurus too.

Yes, this circuit is very nice! And also the smaller part 74C922 for
only 16 keys in a
4x4 matrix. I used the 74C923 in some computer circuits and they works
really fine!

I have a datasheet in PDF format if anyone needs it (130kB).

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: www.ullrich.at.tt , http://come.to/ullrich
                   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
   .oooO           Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   (   )   Oooo.   KAPSCH AG / ECCN Control Systems    Vienna / Austria
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/




From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Aug 14 12:06:04 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:06:04
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
Message-ID: <200108141907.f7EJ7M708985@smtp005.mailsrvcs.net>

My father was into DIY electronics when I was a kid.
I remember him using an engraver on aluminum and steel.
He basically just 'wrote', it wasn't elegant, but it was
readable.  I also remember watching him build an analog
electronic (it had a silicon diode and a transistor I 
think) tachometer for automobile engines.  He used a 
d'arsenval meter, and made a new scale from paper, 
disassembled the meter and placed the paper under 
the needle.  Then he 'calibrated' it by borrowing a 
neighbor's tach and  penciled in the RPM 100s marks.  
It was nonlinear, but again, quite readable and 
accurate enough to set the carb's idle jets.

And yes, Dymo.  I remember seeing projects in Popular
Electronics that had controls and jacks labeled with
Dymo.  It looked better if the project box paint color
matched the Dymo, like black on black, but it still
looked like crap no matter what.

But, I was never and am not now an asthetics nut.  If
the box works and is reliable, I was always happy.

Personally, I've used dry transfers on (extremely clean)
aluminum with adequate results.  Looks better than
Dymo, but certainly is not as resiliant and durable as 
silk screening.  I've been able to find (occasionally)
special dry transfers that have common electronics words
available.  Not lately though.  Dry transfers present
a letter alignment and kerning challenge.

But some of my stuff is totally unlabeled.  My fatman
mods panels are like that.  My friends think it's cool
that I can tweak that thing with no labels.  One day,
I need to fix that, since Alzheimer's or some other 
senile dementia will eventually take over...  It will
probably be something on the order of a 'sharpie'...

Hey, the stuff works.

tpaddock at seanet.com wrote:
>Harry,
>But when dymo labels fell off you could still 
>read the letters in the fossilized goo. :)
>I was kind of wondering what was pre-dymo?
>Maybe I'm thinking 40s-50s instead of 50s-60s.
>Punch letters on copper strips and "age" in 
>salt water? H2O2? Cola?
>
>I bet dymo dates back farther than I think. 
>Maybe I'll hit it with a heat gun to fade 
>it out a bit. (If I can find some) Nothing 
>says high-class like woodgrain dymo.
>
>Thanks,
>Toby Paddock
>PS- I just checked ebay and sure 
>enough, there's lots of *vintage* Dymo.
>
>Harry wrote:
>> If you want an authentic 60's look use labelmaker
>> plastic tape once made by Dymo. Don't know if it
>> still exists. It embossed litters into a thick
>> plastic self adhesive tape.  It looked awful but
>> I saw a LOT of homebuilt projects using it...
>> 
>> Used it myself... eventually the adhesive dries
>> out and the labels fall off... leaving a sticky
>> residue behind.
>> 
>> H^) harry
>> 
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.

- If children are unable to read by the 4th grade, 
  then one must ask:  What are the teachers doing?

- Good parenting cannot be legislated.

- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

- If a public school system is required by law, then it's
  accountability must also be mandated and enforced by law.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From rrowley at btinternet.com  Tue Aug 14 15:03:58 2001
From: rrowley at btinternet.com (RichR)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:03:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply and FETS
References: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C793D@hati.kapsch.co.at>
Message-ID: <000701c124c1$95a39ba0$dba101d5@c7i1i9>

Hi all
A few questions for my first post.
I've built a few modules that require a +12v -9v power supply however the
rest of my modules run at +12v -12v as does my power supply.I've tried using
a resistor to drop the -12v to -9v but it reads as +9v when I do this.Is it
a case of using different value resistors from the -9v rail?If so how do you
calculate the correct values to use?Is there something I'm missing?

How do you measure the Vp of a J fet?

Thanks
Rich



From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue Aug 14 16:15:46 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:15:46 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
References: <001601c12487$2b5ec2e0$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <004301c124cb$9ca059c0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

I had some 250 mesh prints done is a shop. (actually 100 lines/cm)
The results where nice, but there was already some variation in the
thickness of the letters.
O'cause the resolution you need depends on the font size used.
The panel in case used 4mm helvetica all caps, also not too small, maybe
even abit large.
Also I would consider 250 mesh a bare minimum for most front panels.

Theo


From: David Halliday <dh at synthstuff.com>
>
> One issue is that the screen needs to be of a fairly fine mesh ( 80 to 120
> threads per inch ) in order to get crisp lettering - there are "textile"
>



From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Tue Aug 14 16:22:30 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:22:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] MC-202 sequencing question
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010814090644.063a7030@mailhub.verio.net>

Hello,
I've got an MC-202 I'm using triggered by an MC-303 (Kenton pro-solo for 
the midi/CV conversion) and I'm wanting to building a two-oscillator VCO, a 
VCF, and an ADSR. I'd like to have the MC-202 triggering this using simple 
CV/Gate outputs on the second channel on my mc-202. Is it possible to do 
this? I was thinking I might have to put an input in to trigger the 
step-sequencer (like the EXT-CLK) in on an SH-101... anyone got any ideas?

Thanks,
Joshua


Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From jhaible at t-online.de  Tue Aug 14 16:29:20 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jhaible at t-online.de)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:29:20 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] VC Pan in Electronotes
Message-ID: <997799231.3b79353f6b45a@webmail.t-online.de>

Hi,

I tried to find the VC Pan with constant power approximation
in Electronotes. I *know* I have seen this once, but I don't
know where. Does anybody know the EN issue number for this ?

Thanks,

JH.


From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue Aug 14 16:44:30 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:44:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] MC-202 sequencing question
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010814090644.063a7030@mailhub.verio.net>
Message-ID: <011c01c124cf$a092f3e0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Not only is this possible, this is where the  202 is made for ;)
The extra clock is only needed if you use an additional analogue sequencer,
like the one in the SH101.

Theo

From: cacofone <pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com>

> Hello,
> I've got an MC-202 I'm using triggered by an MC-303 (Kenton pro-solo for
> the midi/CV conversion) and I'm wanting to building a two-oscillator VCO,
a
> VCF, and an ADSR. I'd like to have the MC-202 triggering this using simple
> CV/Gate outputs on the second channel on my mc-202. Is it possible to do
> this? I was thinking I might have to put an input in to trigger the
> step-sequencer (like the EXT-CLK) in on an SH-101... anyone got any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Joshua
>
>
> Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
> http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe
> http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
> http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode
http://www.mp3.com/cacofone
>



From atom at suspicious.org  Tue Aug 14 16:52:50 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:52:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply and FETS
In-Reply-To: <000701c124c1$95a39ba0$dba101d5@c7i1i9>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108141047140.13671-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

> I've built a few modules that require a +12v -9v power supply however the
> rest of my modules run at +12v -12v as does my power supply.I've tried using
> a resistor to drop the -12v to -9v but it reads as +9v when I do this.Is it
> a case of using different value resistors from the -9v rail?If so how do you
> calculate the correct values to use?Is there something I'm missing?
===============================

is the polarity right, on yer meter?

if i understand this right, it's the perfect job for a 7909, -9V
regulator, not a resistor.

this would work well with an easy-to-find +12V/-12V power supply.

http://www.falstaff.demon.co.uk/power.html

        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"The people I put in jail have more honor than the top
	 administration in this organization."
		-- Bob Hoffman, B.A.T.F. agent,
		"60 Minutes", January 1993




From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Aug 14 16:55:05 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:55:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply and FETS
In-Reply-To: <000701c124c1$95a39ba0$dba101d5@c7i1i9>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010814102121.20289A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> A few questions for my first post.
> I've built a few modules that require a +12v -9v power supply however the
> rest of my modules run at +12v -12v as does my power supply.I've tried using
> a resistor to drop the -12v to -9v but it reads as +9v when I do this.Is it
> a case of using different value resistors from the -9v rail?If so how do you
> calculate the correct values to use?Is there something I'm missing?

   Hi Rich,

   It sounds like you just have the leads of your voltmeter reversed!  
You can certainly drop the voltage this way, but depending on how much 
current you draw, it may not regulate at -9V very well.
   As long as the current isn't too great, I would recommend using an 
op-amp buffer to create your -9V supply.  Just divide the -12V down with 
two resistors with a 1 to 3 ratio to ground.  Connect the midpoint (now 
-9V) to the positive input of an op-amp, with the negative input pin 
tied to the output.  This way the op-amp will regulate the output up to 
its maximum current capacity.

> How do you measure the Vp of a J fet?

   According to my text book, the knee of the Vgs = 0V curve occurs when 
Vp = -Vds.  So ground the gate and source pins and monitor the drain for 
voltage and current.  Increase the voltage to the drain until the current 
no longer increases.  That voltage would be Vds or -(Vp).
   Hopefully that would do it.  I've never had to make that sort of 
measurement, so if I'm wrong, someone please correct me!

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
          The E-Music DIY Archive - New site coming soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
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     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001


From jdarby at lplizard.com  Tue Aug 14 17:16:06 2001
From: jdarby at lplizard.com (Jon Darby)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:16:06 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MC-202 sequencing question
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010814090644.063a7030@mailhub.verio.net>
Message-ID: <009e01c124d4$0a06a980$d836743f@lplizard.com>

My 202 had been modified by the previous owner to do exactly this with
individual 1/8" CV, Gate, and Trig outs. When I get home I'll crack it open
and compare it against the schematic and take pictures of the work for you
if you are interested. I've never connected the modded outs to my Moog, I'll
do that tonight, too, and let you know how it works out. As a matter of fact
I've never used both channels at the same time, how do you program the
second channel? Thanks a pantload.

Your pal,
Jon Darby

----- Original Message -----
From: "cacofone" <pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com>
To: <analogue at hyperreal.org>; "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 10:22 AM
Subject: [sdiy] MC-202 sequencing question


> Hello,
> I've got an MC-202 I'm using triggered by an MC-303 (Kenton pro-solo for
> the midi/CV conversion) and I'm wanting to building a two-oscillator VCO,
a
> VCF, and an ADSR. I'd like to have the MC-202 triggering this using simple
> CV/Gate outputs on the second channel on my mc-202. Is it possible to do
> this? I was thinking I might have to put an input in to trigger the
> step-sequencer (like the EXT-CLK) in on an SH-101... anyone got any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Joshua
>
>
> Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
> http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe
> http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
> http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode
http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From torbjorn.hornfeldt at telia.com  Tue Aug 14 17:31:38 2001
From: torbjorn.hornfeldt at telia.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?Torbj=F6rn_H=F6rnfeldt?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:31:38 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
References: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C793D@hati.kapsch.co.at>
Message-ID: <00a601c124d6$37c456e0$9894c6c3@RA>

Check out 

http://omega.tellus.vallentuna.se/anders/pdf/baspedal.pdf

for a bass pedal design using the 74c922.

Torbj?rn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ullrich Peter" <Ullrich at kapsch.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 1:59 PM
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Calculator Synth


> >A 74c923 keyboard decoder chip can look after the scanning of a 4x5
> array of
> >switches, and outputs a binary value. Couple it to a DAC, and you are
> done.
> >It even supplies a "trigger" signal when a key is pressed. I think
> someone
> >used this as a basis for a set of foor pedals ala Taurus too.
> 
> Yes, this circuit is very nice! And also the smaller part 74C922 for
> only 16 keys in a
> 4x4 matrix. I used the 74C923 in some computer circuits and they works
> really fine!
> 
> I have a datasheet in PDF format if anyone needs it (130kB).
> 
> Ciao
> Peter
> 
>         \|/
>        (o o)
> --oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
>                    Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
>                    Homepage: www.ullrich.at.tt , http://come.to/ullrich
>                    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
>    .oooO           Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
>    (   )   Oooo.   KAPSCH AG / ECCN Control Systems    Vienna / Austria
> ----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
>      \_)    ) /
>            (_/
> 
> 



From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Tue Aug 14 17:34:22 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:34:22 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] VC Pan in Electronotes
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AEFD0@exchange1.intermetall.de>

EN#     127     05      GLAP Revisited: Smaller Parts Count Using CEM3330,
Constant Power Correction 
And Image Angle Curves (Lester Ludwig)

see my web pages:

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/4459/grey_pages/EN.txt


m.c.

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: jhaible at t-online.de [mailto:jhaible at t-online.de]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. August 2001 16:29
> An: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Betreff: [sdiy] VC Pan in Electronotes
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I tried to find the VC Pan with constant power approximation
> in Electronotes. I *know* I have seen this once, but I don't
> know where. Does anybody know the EN issue number for this ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JH.
> 


From cyborgzero at home.com  Tue Aug 14 17:43:11 2001
From: cyborgzero at home.com (Rob B)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:43:11 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply and FETS
References: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6016C793D@hati.kapsch.co.at> <000701c124c1$95a39ba0$dba101d5@c7i1i9>
Message-ID: <002c01c124d7$d59588c0$6601a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>

Hrm.. I have a similiar problem with an SH5 right now.. Whenever the
powersupply is hooked into the bender board, the -15 rail runs up to
+7volts! In all my years, I have never seen this. The +15volt rail doesn't
even flinch when this happens.

I did a load test on the -15volt rail by putting a 200k resistor between it
and ground, and it doesn't droop at all. The resistor gets pretty warm, so
that made me feel good at least that it can supply a good deal of current.

Changed all the opamps thinking one of them had an input burned short, but
no luck.

Most of the caps are of the film variety, so I wouldn't think they would be
having any problems yet.

One of the most strange episodes I have ever seen.. Worst part about it is
that I had *just* finished fixing it and getting it running! I played with
it for a few days, and it just stopped working again. One of the more
unusual things I have seen happen.

aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number

----- Original Message -----
From: RichR <rrowley at btinternet.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply and FETS


> Hi all
> A few questions for my first post.
> I've built a few modules that require a +12v -9v power supply however the
> rest of my modules run at +12v -12v as does my power supply.I've tried
using
> a resistor to drop the -12v to -9v but it reads as +9v when I do this.Is
it
> a case of using different value resistors from the -9v rail?If so how do
you
> calculate the correct values to use?Is there something I'm missing?
>
> How do you measure the Vp of a J fet?
>
> Thanks
> Rich
>



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 14 17:58:31 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:58:31 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
Message-ID: <F83NPPzQT456UnHAaaz000073fa@hotmail.com>

If you want an authentic 60's look use labelmaker
plastic tape once made by Dymo. Don't know if it
still exists. It embossed litters into a thick
plastic self adhesive tape.  It looked awful but
I saw a LOT of homebuilt projects using it...

Used it myself... eventually the adhesive dries
out and the labels fall off... leaving a sticky
residue behind.

H^) harry


>From: Toby Paddock <tpaddock at seanet.com>
>To: Synth_diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:31:59 -0700
>
>These are a couple posts from June 98. I know since then
>this trophy shop has gotten more into laser stuff. They burn
>the paint off leaving silver letters on a colored background.
>The metal panels I saw were too thin to use without some backing.
>
>And I have a question... What would DIY'ers do for panels and
>labels in the 50s and 60s? I'd like to make a panel
>that kind of looks like a homemade project from back then.
>(If I can resist using LEDs and mini toggle switches).
>
>Thanks,
>Toby Paddock
>
>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>Sorry if this has been covered before...
>
>At work I saw some panels that were done by a trophy shop.
>They're normally for plaques and awards, but this guy was
>using them for test equipment panels.  Colored graphics on
>very thin brushed aluminum.  He emails the graphics to the
>shop and picks up the panels the next day.
>From what I understand, it's kind of like an industrial strength
>t-shirt transfer process.
>I think the price was about $25US for a 10 x 10 inch (ouch).
>
>Hoping this finds you,
>Toby Paddock
>- -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -
>http://www.seanet.com/~tpaddock
>Pronteon Approved,
>not a museum of radioactive ore samples
>
>
>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>More vague mumblings about front panels made by a trophy shop...
>
>A guy at work is having test equipment panels made by a shop that has a
>process for doing award plaques and such.
>He left a couple samples on my desk.  I measure them to be about .025 inch
>thick aluminum.  Would need to stick them on something heavier.  Almost
>thick enough maybe for a very small panel.  I think this is an
>industrial-strength heat transfer T-shirt type process.
>
>Sample 1:   Black letters on brushed aluminum.  Fairly sharp detail on the
>letters.  Feels like a thin plastic coating.  Smooth, I can't feel the
>letters.  I can't seem to mark it at all with my fingernail.  I can scratch
>it using the other piece of aluminum, of course.  Once scratched, I can not
>get it to keep pealing with my fingernail.
>
>Sample 2:   Multi-colored graphic.  Looks cool.  Brushed aluminum shows
>through the light colors (nice effect).  Looks kind of half-tone where the
>colors blend.  Like a inkjet printer, which I think it is.  No horizontal
>bars like an inkjet sometimes does.  Same coating.  Could make a very
>pretty panel.
>
>
>They are also using a laser on a painted panel to burn off the paint where
>the letters are.  (Metal letters on a paint background.)  Or where the
>letters aren't... (Paint letters on metal background.)  I have not seen any
>of these.
>
>When I get a chance, I will go to the shop and take a look.  I think they
>are just having too much fun with this.
>
>Hoping this finds you,
>Toby Paddock
>- -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -  - -- -
>http://www.seanet.com/~tpaddock
>Pronteon Approved,
>Not a farm machinery demolition-derby newsletter
>
>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From synth1 at airmail.net  Tue Aug 14 18:16:10 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:16:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Website redesign contest
Message-ID: <003f01c124dc$6f0b4860$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Since my website is showing it's age and is becoming harder for me to
update, I'm running a contest.

The prize is $1000 MOTM module credit!

For details, email me PRIVATELY.

Paul Schreiber
Synthesis Technology




From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 14 18:30:21 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:30:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
Message-ID: <F15ofu45XijWQK3zrwz00001171@hotmail.com>

Yea, the dividers don't use any ICs, they're some sort of two transistor 
circuit with some componants dependant upon which note is being divided and 
which division it is.  The oscillators are coil and capacitors oscs so there 
aren't ICs there either.  Did IC technology even exist when the continental 
organ was in production?

Does anyone know if any organs were ever made that had an LC oscillator per 
key?

Yea, and I'll make my organ with clear keys that light up when you press 
them, and I'll anodize it bright white.  :-)

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com>
>To: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
>CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 02:55:13 -0400
>
>
>
>Dr Strangelove wrote:
>
> > Actually I had said that the Vox Jaguar does something different.  I 
>meant
> > the Vox Continental (hmm, this sounds like some sort of suspicious
> > backpeddling to save face).  It uses high frequency Hartley Oscillators
> > (Signal tapped from a split inductance in a resonant circuit), and a 
>strange
> > sort of divider circuit to derive the lower octaves.  The wierd thing 
>about
> > it is that I think it outputs something besides square waves, The Jaguar
> > sounds like square waves though.....  Kinda like a beefed up thomas 
>organ
> > but with a vox vibrato.  I've heard both of them, in, errrr, samples 
>I've
> > tracked with  :-).
>
>I happen to have a Vox Super-Continental. I can definitely confirm that 
>this
>particular model has 12 high frequency oscillators, and uses divider 
>circuitry
>to generate the lower pitches from those 12 reference pitches. I  can't 
>verify
>the type of divider circuitry, except that I don't believe there are IC's 
>in
>this organ. I also can't verify what types of waveforms are generated, at 
>least
>not from memory.
>
>However, I can confirm that this model has both "bright" and "dark" 
>drawbars
>(refers to tonal properties, not appearance.) Also, don't forget that this 
>organ
>has "mixture" drawbars - something that a Hammond didn't have. These will
>definitely not be producing a simple square wave with each note played, 
>although
>they might indeed be derived from square waves, for all I know.
>
>I'm not at home, so I don't have access to the organ at this moment. If 
>anyone
>seems interested, I'll try and confirm more details about the circuitry in 
>a day
>or two.
>
>As for Thomas organs, which model are you referring to? Thomas made a *lot* 
>of
>different organs, and there was a wide variety of sound qualities and 
>circuit
>designs represented during their history.
>
>
>Later,
>Glen
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From schwich at qwest.net  Tue Aug 14 18:34:08 2001
From: schwich at qwest.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:34:08 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
In-Reply-To: <004301c124cb$9ca059c0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <OJEHIEGGNPIJDNGJANPAAECMCCAA.schwich@qwest.net>

Howdy,

I've been looking into various methods/materials to do front panels and PCBs
over the last few months. I have not done any business with any of these
companies or used any of there products so I can't comment on products,
service or prices. When you're looking for this type of stuff check out the
graphic arts, crafts, modelling and hobby areas. There is a lot of info
there. Also if you find a product that looks interesting do a WEB search on
it. There might be some comments on using it and the quality.

Here are the URLs that might be of interest to folks (and by the way there
are way more than this out there):

http://www.paper-paper.com/  Decals.

http://www.cbridge.com/ Silk screen, check out the key pad panel.

http://www.computercrafts.com/inkjet-paper.html Ink jet supplies, decals,
tranfers.

http://www.decalpaper.com/ink-jet-paper.htm Decals and tatoo paper.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/beldecal/inkjetdecpap.html Decals.

http://www.mediadirectonline.com/doc/graphicspecialty.htm Various media
types.

http://www.papercentral.com/ Media.

http://www.ramcoweb.com/frmain.htm Media, inks, toners.

http://www.thedecalpaperstore.com/US/index.html Inkjet decals, white
background and does not require a sealer for ink before transfering.

http://www.dynaart.com/ Iron on transfer for PCB & front panels.

www.techniks.com/press-n-peel.html As it say Press-n-Peel for PCBs (worked
yesterday, can't seem to get there today?)

Now here is a question of my own.

Has anyone tried any of the iron on t-shirt transfer media on metal front
panels?

Now go out there and make something neat and pretty!
Jay




From Everready9v at aol.com  Tue Aug 14 18:46:56 2001
From: Everready9v at aol.com (Everready9v at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:46:56 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone need a Paia 8700 controller?
Message-ID: <10f.3be9a5c.28aab000@aol.com>

Howdy,
A few years ago I was in a Goodwill in Portland and found a Paia 8700 
controller(just the keyboard) and got it, and it's sat in my closet for 3 
years, anyway I'm moving and I was wondering if anyone needed it for parts or 
it's going to end up in my trash.  If interested please e-mail me back,
take care,
Barry


From Everready9v at aol.com  Tue Aug 14 18:50:10 2001
From: Everready9v at aol.com (Everready9v at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:50:10 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone need a Paia 8700 controller?
Message-ID: <14.18bd3be4.28aab0c2@aol.com>

Howdy,
A few years ago I was in a Goodwill in Portland and found a Paia 8700 
controller(just the keyboard) and got it, and it's sat in my closet for 3 
years, anyway I'm moving and I was wondering if anyone needed it for parts or 
it's going to end up in my trash.  If interested please e-mail me back,
take care,
Barry


From Everready9v at aol.com  Tue Aug 14 19:15:54 2001
From: Everready9v at aol.com (Everready9v at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:15:54 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Info I forgot to add about Paia 8700 controller
Message-ID: <ad.ec364aa.28aab6ca@aol.com>

I found it in Portland but I live in New York, so that would be where I'd 
ship from. Sorry if I initially sounded misleading,
Barry

Howdy,
A few years ago I was in a Goodwill in Portland and found a Paia 8700 
controller(just the keyboard) and got it, and it's sat in my closet for 3 
years, anyway I'm moving and I was wondering if anyone needed it for parts or 
it's going to end up in my trash.  If interested please e-mail me back,
take care,
Barry


From don at till.com  Tue Aug 14 19:16:19 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:16:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
In-Reply-To: <00d701c12499$ac63c360$390887d9@default>
	(oakley@techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk)
Message-ID: <200108141716.KAA11134@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: "Tony Allgood" <oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk>
   Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:12:27 +0100

   I must say the polymoog does sound incredibly rich... with none of the
   nastiness associated with the BBD designs. Of course, the polymoog is
   much heavier as a result. Have I told you before how heavy the polymoog
   is... :-)

I've never physically opened one up, but I would think the major
reason for the PolyMoog's weight is that it's built with a separate PC
board for each key.

(Yet another one of the cool things about the PolyMoog is that they
put almost all the circuitry for a key on a custom chip.  So there's
more circuitry per key than one would typically expect, and the custom
chip is cost effective because of the quantities involved.  Great,
huh?  Yet the PolyMoog is actually built with a small PC board per
key, each with the one chip and a handful of passives.  Perhaps they
had an all discrete version of the board ready in case the chips
didn't pan out, I don't know.)

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Tue Aug 14 19:51:23 2001
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:51:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <F15ofu45XijWQK3zrwz00001171@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B79651B.E18AEB1A@consol.de>

Hi Jonathan

> Does anyone know if any organs were ever made that had an LC oscillator per
> key?
My Yamaha YC-30 was built like that. (The YC-30 is the one manual version of the
famous YC-45; I sold mine for 1982, when I bought the used Polymoog ... sigh)

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de


From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Aug 14 20:06:02 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:06:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
In-Reply-To: <F40GVYp21opxTQ5Aqol00006bb6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B79ED2BA.21909%grichter@asapnet.net>

4000 series CMOS is happy to run on a 9 volt battery. Make sure to use a
bypass cap across the battery voltage.

An 8 key keyboard can be encoded with a single CD4532 priority encoder. The
output will be binary, and you can put 10K,20K and 40K resistors on the
output lines to generate stepped voltages. Or you could make them pots and
then get goofy scales. This would be the simplest for a little calculator
synth, you can also cascade the 4532s to get more keys.

You could run the resistors from the output lines of the 4532 directly to
the timing cap of an astable 555. With no key pressed, you have no charging
current and no oscillation. So just a CD4532 and a 555 timer could be used
to make a little keyboard controlled organ. It would be hard to tune of
course, not a precision device but cheap and fun.

The CD4532 has a signal which can be used as a gate for a simple envelope
generator. And a Radio Shack photoresistor and LED can be used to make a VCF
and VCA.

The schematic for a bigger encoder is on the last page of

http://omega.tellus.vallentuna.se/anders/pdf/8782dwg.pdf

A little calculator synth would not need 64 keys, but you can't use a 4052
because the address lines are tied together.

It works like this: The counter counts at high speed an scans the two 4051s
looking for where they cross. At that point a strobe is generated and used
to latch that key number into a latch. The number is then turned into a
voltage by a DAC. It works with any kind of keyboard.




From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Aug 14 20:18:08 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:18:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
In-Reply-To: <p04320403b79e89eb09b0@[63.23.233.247]>
Message-ID: <B79ED590.2190B%grichter@asapnet.net>

That is not that far out.

If you consider you could build a mechanical system (say pendulums with
magnets) record the movements onto computer, and then play them back at high
speed to shift the waveforms into the audio range.

There is probably tons of slow datalogging files that could be reformatted
to "fool" the computer in thinking it is an audio file.

I think someone tried that with a years worth of seismic data. And then
there was the "Earths Magnetic Field" record.

> I suppose next someone could build a mechanical analog synth (I picture the
> front panel work of the Bergfotron on steroids) that saves the results by
> cutting grooves in a plastic disc like the RCA Mark II. Wouldn't even
> require any tubes or BBD's to operate...




From BJB at dolby.com  Tue Aug 14 20:38:54 2001
From: BJB at dolby.com (Brett, Bill)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:38:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
Message-ID: <DFF1DE9BFABDD211A6F400A02461FE6F03AE2E0E@xsf1.dolby.com>

Greetings,
I am building a light controller that responds to an audio input. I have
figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part of the circuit.
Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the lights. I thought of
using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between audio beat and
light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag of the light
powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now of a schematic
that uses solid state to do this?
Thanks
-Bill



From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Tue Aug 14 20:59:26 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:59:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] more mc202 questions
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010814135023.0639aec0@mailhub.verio.net>

I found this

"There are more than four positions on the VCO-Range switch.
This is a very simple but effective tip. While you are sequencing, you can 
change the switch and actually modulate to different keys on the fly. Just 
move the switch very slowly between the fixed positions. If you use this 
method effectively, you can make this box sound meaner than Jimi Hendrix!"

at http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~XC2S-OOHR/mc202fan.html

and I was wondering if I could swap the multi position switch with a pot 
somehow? or am I perhaps misinterpreting the intent of this tip?

I'm also interested in hearing all the other glorious mods that I could do 
with my MC-202...

Thanks,
Joshua

Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From JohnS at molectron.com  Tue Aug 14 21:06:43 2001
From: JohnS at molectron.com (John Speth)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:06:43 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
Message-ID: <9F36E0A056B6D04F81829A34832B9C1F18C635@mdimail.molectron.com>

I think solid state relays are instantaneous.  I've used them for
incandescent lights with no problem.  I'm not sure how they would work for
other devices though.

However, depending on the bulb you use, there may be a delay between the
time the relay is turned on and the time the bulb is at full power.

John Speth

> I am building a light controller that responds to an audio 
> input. I have
> figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part of 
> the circuit.
> Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the lights. I 
> thought of
> using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between 
> audio beat and
> light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag of the light
> powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now 
> of a schematic
> that uses solid state to do this?
> Thanks
> -Bill
> 
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From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Tue Aug 14 21:23:19 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:23:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
In-Reply-To: <DFF1DE9BFABDD211A6F400A02461FE6F03AE2E0E@xsf1.dolby.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010814142244.00af1130@mailhub.verio.net>

use MIDI

It's designed for light show implementation as well.

Joshua


  PM 8/14/01, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>I am building a light controller that responds to an audio input. I have
>figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part of the circuit.
>Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the lights. I thought of
>using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between audio beat and
>light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag of the light
>powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now of a schematic
>that uses solid state to do this?
>Thanks
>-Bill

Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 21:29:00 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:29:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
References: <200108141716.KAA11134@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <011c01c124f7$6b72eb20$010c87d9@default>

Hi Don and all,

>I've never physically opened one up, but I would think the major
reason for the PolyMoog's weight is that it's built with a separate PC
board for each key.

I think the main reason for the weight of the thing is the keyboard
itself. Each key is loaded with lead weights epoxied into place.
Removing the keyboard makes the instrument feel about half the weight.

The other thing is the front panel and supporting chassis. This is a
sizeable piece of steel.

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 14 21:40:51 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:40:51 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
Message-ID: <F130zfl0EK5teBEnhkl0000772f@hotmail.com>

If you use solid state relays be sure to use
those with zero voltage switching to minimize
the interference from the thyristor switching.

It also helps to locate the bulb and SSR very
close and minimize the loop area of the wiring.

I did a color organ with this method that I could
run a guitar cord parallel to the power wiring
without unacceptable noise in the guitar.

Dimming controls are bad news in therms of noise.

H^) harry


>From: John Speth <JohnS at molectron.com>
>To: "Synth-DIY List (E-mail)" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:06:43 -0700
>
>I think solid state relays are instantaneous.  I've used them for
>incandescent lights with no problem.  I'm not sure how they would work for
>other devices though.
>
>However, depending on the bulb you use, there may be a delay between the
>time the relay is turned on and the time the bulb is at full power.
>
>John Speth
>
> > I am building a light controller that responds to an audio
> > input. I have
> > figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part of
> > the circuit.
> > Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the lights. I
> > thought of
> > using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between
> > audio beat and
> > light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag of the light
> > powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now
> > of a schematic
> > that uses solid state to do this?
> > Thanks
> > -Bill
> >


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Aug 14 22:21:30 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:21:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] E-Music down???
In-Reply-To: <20010814222154V.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010814160433.20289B-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

   Hi Magnus and others,

> The server behind E-Music DIY Archive (aupe.phys.andrews.edu) seems to
> be out of order. The machine is there, is answers to ping and there is
> someone answering to the http port (port 80). However, no pages is
> being delivered. Just a black hole in responce.
> 
> Now, I don't recall who's responsible, but could people allert the
> people feeling responsible so that the machine get up and alive again.
> It seems to have been out to lunch for some time.

   I apologize for that and for not letting the list know the current 
state of the Archive.  Unfortunately the university IT dept shut off http 
access to the machine when the Red Code virus was hot, not realizing 
that it is a Linux box.  ;)  Anyhoo, they refused to turn it back on 
until some other issues were dealt with (such as local caching, new 
site name, etc.).
   It's taken me a good week and a half to get things sorted out and 
it's had me furious because the machine is primarily my business's web 
server!  But it is now back up and running at the following address:

   http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/diy_archive

   It will be available here for the meantime until I can find a 
suitable hosting service.  I'm dedicated to keeping the Archive 
online, so any lapse in service is merely a Michigan pothole in the 
internet highway!  ;)

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
          The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Tue Aug 14 22:21:54 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:21:54 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] E-Music down???
Message-ID: <20010814222154V.cfmd@swipnet.se>

Hi!

The server behind E-Music DIY Archive (aupe.phys.andrews.edu) seems to
be out of order. The machine is there, is answers to ping and there is
someone answering to the http port (port 80). However, no pages is
being delivered. Just a black hole in responce.

Now, I don't recall who's responsible, but could people allert the
people feeling responsible so that the machine get up and alive again.
It seems to have been out to lunch for some time.

I know that what I searched for (the Jupiter 4 service manual in
scanned form, for a friend and not for myself) is not there (thanks to
Google's cache). But I still want the site to be available.

Maybe time to ensure a mirror, it is very slow to get to the other
side of the world.

Anyway, this is just to show that I do relly on this thing!

Cheers,
Magnus



From dragonser at clara.net  Tue Aug 14 23:04:20 2001
From: dragonser at clara.net (Peter Blackett)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:04:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] [Fwd: Re:Vox / Thomas Organs and dividers 
Message-ID: <3B799254.44B82EF1@clara.net>

Hi,
sorry that I'm breaking in late with this thread ......
there are connections between the Vox company and Thomas Organs .....
misc things to note.
there are several versions of the Vox Continental , early ones use
transistor dividers, later ones use IC dividers .
there are also changes in the design of the 12 master oscilators [ I
think the early ones use germanium transistors and " may " drift more
than the later ones that use silicon ].
Because you have 12 different oscilators it does sound different to
using a TOG ic as there are some compromises in the frequencies produced
by a top octave generator ic ......
but you can't easily tune the Organ up or down in pitch with 12
oscilators.
I think the Jaguar uses similar dividing tecnology but has a simplified
voicing arrangement .[ I can confirm this if anyone needs to know ].
If there is one Organ that I would like to get my hands on its a Vox
Continental Baroque  . [ but I definately can't afford it ].
TWO manual , one like a Vox Continental , other one has voices that can
be sustained [ Harpsichord , Celeste ? ].
you can get different waveforms from the dividers by filtering [ filters
can be simple as they only have one frequency fed into them] or by
adding different frequency square waves .
if you get a square wave that has about 25 % pulse width that generates
a piano like sound ,so this is how some f the early electronic piano's
work 
Crumar and Roland ep20 for example .
sorry that's enough of topic talk ........
normal service will be resumed as soon as possible ......

regards Peter




From jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr  Tue Aug 14 23:24:37 2001
From: jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:24:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] analog parabolic EG
References: <1.5.4.32.20010812001221.0074a854@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <3B799711.53E06681@wanadoo.fr>



Paul Perry a ?crit:

> At 10:42 PM 10/08/01 +0000, JB wrote:
> >Could anyone point me to schematics of an
> >analog parabolic evelope generator ?
> >
> Since a parabola is defined by a linear and a squared term,
> you could make a generator from a maximum of 3 multipliers.
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia



if we consider the basic for of a parabola : y = -(x*x)
1 multiplier and 1 inverter should theorically be enough...

As for the multiplier, the AD633 seems to be a good
candidate... any opinion on that ?

Then we need a linear ramp going from, say, -1V to +1V,
triggered by an external  gate signal. I guess I can get inspiration
by almost any EG schematics.
For different attack & decay times, the ramp would need
to be cut in half : -1 to 0V, and then 0 to +1V.

And being able to voltage control attack & decay times, as well
as amp of the parabola itself would be a nice add-on...

I'm sure I could achieve something by myself, but due to
lack of time, I was wondering whether some schemo would
be already available somewhere...

JB



From jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr  Tue Aug 14 23:34:17 2001
From: jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:34:17 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digisound
Message-ID: <3B799957.84A2582F@wanadoo.fr>

Hi all,

I recently discovered (better late than never)
that there was a first serie of Digisound modules
using pre-CEM chips (SSM 2033 etc).

Is there any schematics anywhere ?
Are they close to the 2nd serie of modules
featuring CEM ICs ?

Thanks.
JB



From mclilith at ezwv.com  Wed Aug 15 00:03:34 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:03:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
In-Reply-To: <F15ofu45XijWQK3zrwz00001171@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010814174859.00946440@mail.ezwv.com>

At 12:30 PM 8/14/01 , Dr Strangelove wrote:

>Does anyone know if any organs were ever made that had an LC oscillator per 
>key?

Old Allen organs had separate oscillators for each pitch produced on the
organ. I'm not sure if they were LC or RC style.

Some of the old Conn organs also had separate oscillators for each pitch. I
know for a fact that these were LC, and they employed tunable inductors.

Early Rodgers organs used separate LC oscillators for each pitch. Later,
they moved toward RC oscillators to save some money. At first they only
used RC oscillators on the bass notes, to replace the larger and more
expensive tunable inductors used in that section. Later, they made some
organs that were totally RC for all the pitches. They kept the individual
oscillator system until perhaps the mid-80's. Everyone else had long
abandoned that style of organ, but they persisted because of the warmth
that individual analog circuitry provides. Eventually, they made the switch
to totally digital organs, using sampling technology. However, it's worth
mentioning that modern Rodgers organs can still be fitted with authentic
wind-blown pipes, arguably the ultimate "analog organ" oscillator. Such
organs are typically hybrids using sampling for some of the voices, and
real pipes for other voices, but they can also be pipe organs if desired.
(However, that can be very expensive.)

Later,
Glen


From gendreau at rochester.rr.com  Wed Aug 15 00:19:57 2001
From: gendreau at rochester.rr.com (Dan Gendreau)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:19:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Data formats in Eprom based drum machines and Romplers 
In-Reply-To: <3B75AD51.73BE51D8@clara.net>
Message-ID: <NBBBJDABEPKADOHHFCFAEEDEDDAA.gendreau@rochester.rr.com>

> are there any other formats I should be familiar with ?

Not really another format, but if you may want to be aware of a variation on
the "linear encoding" ROM format.

Another trick that was used to increase dynamic range back in the day in
some drum machines (most notably the Roland TR909, TR707, TR727, and the
Boss DRP-* pads) employed a hardware envelope to the DAC output. The data in
the ROM was audio-compressed and the hardware envelope (either an RC
envelope or derived from the rom address using an exponential DAC) restores
the original dynamic range. The ROM data will sound very harsh if you do not
account for this output EG in some way.

Have a look at the TR707 and TR909 schematics (HH, CC, RC sections) for an
example of this technique.

-Dan G.



From synth1 at airmail.net  Wed Aug 15 00:34:32 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:34:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Fw: Rich's 'Bestiary' is out!
Message-ID: <00ae01c12511$49fbe040$71765140@speakeasy.net>

> If you dropped by our NAMM booth, you got to see Robert Rich's MOTM system
> and hear some
> preliminary mixes. 3 small 'test' patches have been our the site for about
8
> months.
>
> Well, I'm proud to announce that the CD is available directly from Robert
> today (the 'street' date is Sept. 15th).
>
> From the liner notes:
>
> Medieval bestiaries depicted strange and mysterious creatures,
> allegories from distant new lands filled with wonders. Today,
> these new worlds lie inwards; so this musical bestiary maps a
> perplexing mindscape, shapeshifting organisms painted in sound,
> a sonic surrealism.
>
> Copies are now available from:
> Go to http://www.rrich.com/rrbestiary.html
>
> Contains MOTM modular synth, processed guitar, vocal, and bass.
>
> On his page, there are 2 demos. The first one (the MP3 encoding is not
> great) has a vocal 'SIGH' patch that uses dual
> MOTM-410 Triple Resonant filters. The second demo (MP3 encoder MUCH
cleaner)
> is more 'VCS-3 blippy' like.
>
> I encourage everyone to check it out. This is the end result of 1 year of
> sweat and a pure labor of love.
>
> Paul Schreiber
> Synthesis Technology




From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 15 00:35:49 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:35:49 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
References: <DFF1DE9BFABDD211A6F400A02461FE6F03AE2E0E@xsf1.dolby.com>
Message-ID: <004b01c12511$78445360$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Most dimmer packs for theater use triacs to switch the lamps.
Probably a lot cheaper than using (solid-state) relays.

There was a circuit for a "theater" dimmer pack in Elektor a while back
(sorry don't have the issue handy)
For the intended theater use it was a bit on the flimsy side, only
500W/channel or so.
But for a audio disco show this Elektor circuit might give you all
inspiration you need ;)

Maybe try a search for "dimmer pack circuits" or something like that.
There are bound to be lots of examples on the web.

Hope this helps,
Theo


From: Brett, Bill <BJB at dolby.com>

> Greetings,
> I am building a light controller that responds to an audio input. I have
> figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part of the circuit.
> Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the lights. I thought of
> using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between audio beat and
> light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag of the light
> powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now of a
schematic
> that uses solid state to do this?
> Thanks
> -Bill
>



From sasami at blaze.net.au  Wed Aug 15 00:51:38 2001
From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:51:38 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
Message-ID: <200108142251.f7EMpcA25618@blaze.net.au>



Toby Paddock wrote:

>And I have a question... What would DIY'ers do for panels and
>labels in the 50s and 60s? I'd like to make a panel
>that kind of looks like a homemade project from back then.
>(If I can resist using LEDs and mini toggle switches).

Dymo tape was used on that famous Moog prototype, though that may have been
added later. I had a Dymo in the '70s. I don't know when they were created.
Also used on this synth were what appear to be pieces of paper with the
titles stencilled on them using common drafting stencils. I'm only
commenting on what I've seen in photos. Perhaps someone who as seen the
synth itself would care to elucidate.

Ken

_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Wed Aug 15 01:02:05 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 01:02:05 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM over time
In-Reply-To: <00a801c12511$34ff41a0$71765140@speakeasy.net>
References: <00a801c12511$34ff41a0$71765140@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20010815010205F.cfmd@swipnet.se>

Paul,

This MOTM things has been happening for quite some time. How long has
it been?
Care to give us a few flashback moments in MOTM history or anything?
Any nice little stories?

You usually promote your stuff here, but I'd love to hear some
different aspects on it. So, recall some moments worth mentioning ;)

PS. I naturally wish you all well with the future of MOTM.

Cheers,
Magnus



From prototek at optonline.net  Wed Aug 15 02:31:16 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:31:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] SN76477 Pins
Message-ID: <B79F3B14.84D1%prototek@optonline.net>

   I was thinking of buying some SN76477 IC's. The only ones available I
know of supposedly have non-standard pin spacing. Is there a known way
around this? Also, does anyone have any 76477 based projects on the web I
can see/hear? I'm thinking of using it in my calculator synth.

                           -Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From d0gb0y at tpg.com.au  Wed Aug 15 03:23:21 2001
From: d0gb0y at tpg.com.au (paul kimber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:23:21 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
In-Reply-To: <DFF1DE9BFABDD211A6F400A02461FE6F03AE2E0E@xsf1.dolby.com>
References: <DFF1DE9BFABDD211A6F400A02461FE6F03AE2E0E@xsf1.dolby.com>
Message-ID: <200108150123.f7F1NDG29068@bleys.tpgi.com.au>

Cant point you to a schematic, but I think SCR's (silicon controlled 
rectifiers) would be much better than relays. There are many examples 
of this on the web.

cheers,
Paul

Brett, Bill said at ?[sdiy] audio controlled light show?.
[15/Aug/01Wed 04:38]

> Greetings,
> I am building a light controller that responds to an audio input. I 
> have
> figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part of the 
> circuit.
> Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the lights. I 
> thought of
> using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between audio beat 
> and
> light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag of the 
> light
> powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now of a 
> schematic
> that uses solid state to do this?
> Thanks
> -Bill
> 


From tpe123 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 03:32:12 2001
From: tpe123 at yahoo.com (Tim Escobedo)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:32:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
Message-ID: <20010815013212.25092.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>

Anyone have a schem of the Yamaha CS-01???

If you're looking to build a self contained "Pocket Synth",  you don't
necessarily have to adhere to the 1v/Oct standard. And if  interfacing
with your modular isn't important, one can even forego voltage control
altogether for an extremely simple instrument but effective instrument.
 

I've been experimenting with a very simple home-made SynBow-inspired
instrument. It's a 18" long piece of wood with a routed out cavity for
the electronics. The wang bar pitch control, at this point, is a Rube
Goldbergish thing that controls two pots in two different axis,
side-by-side, and up-and-down. Side-by-side controls pitch, up-and-down
controls pulse width (and consequently acts as a EG/VCA/timbre
control). The VCO is straight from the LM358 app notes with the
triangle wave output feeding a comparator. Unlike the original SynBow,
there is no trigger pad, so as-is, it's not as suited to playing
staccato, percussive stuff. 

Could use some polish, but as is, functions decently and is self
contained. Infinite room for improvement on this idea. I guess it could
easily be adapted to put out a CV, but I'm inclined to leave well
enough alone. 

>If you made the sound source onboard and made the keyboard output a 
>1v/Oct 
>control source then would you be able to have a small power source
that 
>would fit inside the little device that would still be stable enough
to 
>keep 
>your osc(s) tracking?, maybe they'd only have to track an octave or
so.
>
>I've been powering oscs and filters on proto-boards from battery power

>supplies.  They do oscillate and filter like they should but they
don't 
>seem 
>super stable (filter cutoff affects Osc tuning sometimes, if I haven't

>changed the batteries, etc).
>
>It's really a tough call but, over all, my ideal of a "Pocket 
>Calculator" 
>Synth should be as close to completely self contained as possible.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From dh at synthstuff.com  Wed Aug 15 04:10:36 2001
From: dh at synthstuff.com (David Halliday)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:10:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
In-Reply-To: <200108142251.f7EMpcA25618@blaze.net.au>
Message-ID: <001d01c1252f$796c0ee0$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>

Also, a couple of companies make really nice and cheap thermal label
printers.

I use the Brother PT-310 which I bought from Costco for about $40 - the
label tapes are about $15 each.  I have not used these for panels but if you
made your panel a uniform white color ( or special-ordered colored tapes ),
the label would blend in quite nicely.  The adhesive is pretty good.  I have
used them for labeling my mixer and jack panels - nice and clear and crisp.



-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Ken Stone
-> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:52 PM
-> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> Subject: RE: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
->
->
->
->
-> Toby Paddock wrote:
->
-> >And I have a question... What would DIY'ers do for panels and
-> >labels in the 50s and 60s? I'd like to make a panel
-> >that kind of looks like a homemade project from back then.
-> >(If I can resist using LEDs and mini toggle switches).
->
-> Dymo tape was used on that famous Moog prototype, though
-> that may have been
-> added later. I had a Dymo in the '70s. I don't know when
-> they were created.
-> Also used on this synth were what appear to be pieces of
-> paper with the
-> titles stencilled on them using common drafting stencils. I'm only
-> commenting on what I've seen in photos. Perhaps someone who
-> as seen the
-> synth itself would care to elucidate.
->
-> Ken
->
-> _____________________________________________________________
-> __________
-> Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au
-> Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
-> Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
-> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies
-> <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
->
->



From dh at synthstuff.com  Wed Aug 15 04:12:49 2001
From: dh at synthstuff.com (David Halliday)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:12:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
In-Reply-To: <004b01c12511$78445360$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c1252f$c8b54ca0$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>

Time for another plug for this most excellent web site:
http://www.epanorama.net/

specifically:
http://www.epanorama.net/lights.html#soundlight

spend some time with this place - drill down a bit...  It is well worth it.




-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Theo
-> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:36 PM
-> To: Brett, Bill; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> Subject: Re: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
-> 
-> 
-> Most dimmer packs for theater use triacs to switch the lamps.
-> Probably a lot cheaper than using (solid-state) relays.
-> 
-> There was a circuit for a "theater" dimmer pack in Elektor a 
-> while back
-> (sorry don't have the issue handy)
-> For the intended theater use it was a bit on the flimsy side, only
-> 500W/channel or so.
-> But for a audio disco show this Elektor circuit might give you all
-> inspiration you need ;)
-> 
-> Maybe try a search for "dimmer pack circuits" or something like that.
-> There are bound to be lots of examples on the web.
-> 
-> Hope this helps,
-> Theo
-> 
-> 
-> From: Brett, Bill <BJB at dolby.com>
-> 
-> > Greetings,
-> > I am building a light controller that responds to an audio 
-> input. I have
-> > figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part 
-> of the circuit.
-> > Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the 
-> lights. I thought of
-> > using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between 
-> audio beat and
-> > light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag 
-> of the light
-> > powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now of a
-> schematic
-> > that uses solid state to do this?
-> > Thanks
-> > -Bill
-> >
-> 
-> 


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 15 04:30:09 2001
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:30:09 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
References: <F83NPPzQT456UnHAaaz000073fa@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <00d101c12532$35289890$dfab183f@Studio1>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Happy Harry" <paia2720 at hotmail.com>
To: <tpaddock at seanet.com>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings


> If you want an authentic 60's look use labelmaker
> plastic tape once made by Dymo. Don't know if it
> still exists. It embossed litters into a thick
> plastic self adhesive tape.  It looked awful but
> I saw a LOT of homebuilt projects using it...
>
> Used it myself... eventually the adhesive dries
> out and the labels fall off... leaving a sticky
> residue behind.
>
> H^) harry
>


Ah! I happen to have the solution for this. It turns out that superglue is
enormously synergistic with Dymo goo. Put a dot of superglue in the midle of
your label when it falls off (or puckers up) then smish it back in place. It
will *never* come off again.

  Ian



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 15 04:33:54 2001
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:33:54 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
References: <200108141835.f7EIZhB02135@dns2.seanet.com>
Message-ID: <00dd01c12532$bc0f0ce0$dfab183f@Studio1>

Well, one of the older methods was to type the labels on little pieces of
paper and then scotch tape them onto the panel. Some of the early Moog
prototypes used this method. Make sure you use a real typewriter so the
lettering will be crooked and uneven.

  Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: <tpaddock at seanet.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 5:35 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings


> Harry,
> But when dymo labels fell off you could still
> read the letters in the fossilized goo. :)
> I was kind of wondering what was pre-dymo?
> Maybe I'm thinking 40s-50s instead of 50s-60s.
> Punch letters on copper strips and "age" in
> salt water? H2O2? Cola?
>
> I bet dymo dates back farther than I think.
> Maybe I'll hit it with a heat gun to fade
> it out a bit. (If I can find some) Nothing
> says high-class like woodgrain dymo.
>
> Thanks,
> Toby Paddock
> PS- I just checked ebay and sure
> enough, there's lots of *vintage* Dymo.
>
> Harry wrote:
> > If you want an authentic 60's look use labelmaker
> > plastic tape once made by Dymo. Don't know if it
> > still exists. It embossed litters into a thick
> > plastic self adhesive tape.  It looked awful but
> > I saw a LOT of homebuilt projects using it...
> >
> > Used it myself... eventually the adhesive dries
> > out and the labels fall off... leaving a sticky
> > residue behind.
> >
> > H^) harry
> >
>
>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Aug 15 05:56:34 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:56:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
References: <200108141835.f7EIZhB02135@dns2.seanet.com>
Message-ID: <3B79F2F2.13C01AF3@prodigy.net>

The 40's / 50's would be GRAVOPLY lables... they are a black plastic
with a white plastic overcoat.... us use a pantograph style engraver to
cut through the white and expose the black. They are virtually
indestructable.

The label stock can even be had in large sheets, to do a whole front
panel.
Finsihed lables are glued or riveted to the panel.  Still used in
industry today.
Hmmm...  maybe an old engraver on e-bay ???

H^) harry

tpaddock at seanet.com wrote:

> Harry,
> But when dymo labels fell off you could still
> read the letters in the fossilized goo. :)
> I was kind of wondering what was pre-dymo?
> Maybe I'm thinking 40s-50s instead of 50s-60s.
> Punch letters on copper strips and "age" in
> salt water? H2O2? Cola?
>
> I bet dymo dates back farther than I think.
> Maybe I'll hit it with a heat gun to fade
> it out a bit. (If I can find some) Nothing
> says high-class like woodgrain dymo.
>
> Thanks,
> Toby Paddock
> PS- I just checked ebay and sure
> enough, there's lots of *vintage* Dymo.
>
> Harry wrote:
> > If you want an authentic 60's look use labelmaker
> > plastic tape once made by Dymo. Don't know if it
> > still exists. It embossed litters into a thick
> > plastic self adhesive tape.  It looked awful but
> > I saw a LOT of homebuilt projects using it...
> >
> > Used it myself... eventually the adhesive dries
> > out and the labels fall off... leaving a sticky
> > residue behind.
> >
> > H^) harry
> >



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Aug 15 06:01:56 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:01:56 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
References: <9F36E0A056B6D04F81829A34832B9C1F18C635@mdimail.molectron.com>
Message-ID: <3B79F433.869F0A56@prodigy.net>

Solid state relays are instantaneous... to the nearest 8.33mS... the
time to the
next zero cross.  It is best if you choose a design that fires a full
sine wave each time... equal number of positive and negative half
cycles. This keeps the signal from
radiating well from the inductance of the wiring.  AC interference can
be VERY
bad in a stage environment.

BTW... use multiple small bulbs instead of one big one, for much faster
response.

H^) harry

John Speth wrote:

>
>
> I think solid state relays are instantaneous.  I've used them for
> incandescent lights with no problem.  I'm not sure how they would work
> for other devices though.
>
> However, depending on the bulb you use, there may be a delay between
> the time the relay is turned on and the time the bulb is at full
> power.
>
> John Speth
>
> > I am building a light controller that responds to an audio
> > input. I have
> > figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part of
> > the circuit.
> > Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the lights. I
> > thought of
> > using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between
> > audio beat and
> > light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag of the
> light
> > powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now
> > of a schematic
> > that uses solid state to do this?
> > Thanks
> > -Bill
> >



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Aug 15 06:10:03 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:10:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
References: <DFF1DE9BFABDD211A6F400A02461FE6F03AE2E0E@xsf1.dolby.com> <004b01c12511$78445360$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B79F61B.3F984D7C@prodigy.net>

Most SSR ARE Triacs, or inverse / parallel SCRs... with a built in
optoisolated zerp voltage switching circuit.  They cannot be used for
dimming except by dropping cycles, which will flicker the lamps badly.

Real phase controlled dimmers need some SOLID EMI suppression
to make them sort of electrically benign...

H^) harry

Theo wrote:

> Most dimmer packs for theater use triacs to switch the lamps.
> Probably a lot cheaper than using (solid-state) relays.
>
> There was a circuit for a "theater" dimmer pack in Elektor a while back
> (sorry don't have the issue handy)
> For the intended theater use it was a bit on the flimsy side, only
> 500W/channel or so.
> But for a audio disco show this Elektor circuit might give you all
> inspiration you need ;)
>
> Maybe try a search for "dimmer pack circuits" or something like that.
> There are bound to be lots of examples on the web.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Theo
>
> From: Brett, Bill <BJB at dolby.com>
>
> > Greetings,
> > I am building a light controller that responds to an audio input. I have
> > figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part of the circuit.
> > Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the lights. I thought of
> > using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between audio beat and
> > light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag of the light
> > powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now of a
> schematic
> > that uses solid state to do this?
> > Thanks
> > -Bill
> >



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Aug 15 06:16:07 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:16:07 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
References: <001d01c1252f$796c0ee0$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3B79F786.F92AF98B@prodigy.net>

Hear, hear....

I'm using the Brother P-Touch also... with silver tape that blends
almost perfectly with the satin fininsh clear anodize of the SESCOM
rack cases I'm using.  Black letters on silver look pretty good... if you
don't look TOO CLOSE  ;^P

H^) harry

David Halliday wrote:

> Also, a couple of companies make really nice and cheap thermal label
> printers.
>
> I use the Brother PT-310 which I bought from Costco for about $40 - the
> label tapes are about $15 each.  I have not used these for panels but if you
> made your panel a uniform white color ( or special-ordered colored tapes ),
> the label would blend in quite nicely.  The adhesive is pretty good.  I have
> used them for labeling my mixer and jack panels - nice and clear and crisp.
>
> -> -----Original Message-----
> -> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> -> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Ken Stone
> -> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:52 PM
> -> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> -> Subject: RE: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
> ->
> ->
> ->
> ->
> -> Toby Paddock wrote:
> ->
> -> >And I have a question... What would DIY'ers do for panels and
> -> >labels in the 50s and 60s? I'd like to make a panel
> -> >that kind of looks like a homemade project from back then.
> -> >(If I can resist using LEDs and mini toggle switches).
> ->
> -> Dymo tape was used on that famous Moog prototype, though
> -> that may have been
> -> added later. I had a Dymo in the '70s. I don't know when
> -> they were created.
> -> Also used on this synth were what appear to be pieces of
> -> paper with the
> -> titles stencilled on them using common drafting stencils. I'm only
> -> commenting on what I've seen in photos. Perhaps someone who
> -> as seen the
> -> synth itself would care to elucidate.
> ->
> -> Ken
> ->
> -> _____________________________________________________________
> -> __________
> -> Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au
> -> Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
> -> Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
> -> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies
> -> <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
> ->
> ->



From ka4hjh at gte.net  Wed Aug 15 06:45:40 2001
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:45:40 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
In-Reply-To: <3B79F61B.3F984D7C@prodigy.net>
References: <DFF1DE9BFABDD211A6F400A02461FE6F03AE2E0E@xsf1.dolby.com>
 <004b01c12511$78445360$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
 <3B79F61B.3F984D7C@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <p04320406b79fae2b8f7d@[63.23.233.109]>

>Most SSR ARE Triacs, or inverse / parallel SCRs... with a built in
>optoisolated zerp voltage switching circuit.  They cannot be used for
>dimming except by dropping cycles, which will flicker the lamps badly.

I built a voltage-controlled for an abstract light sculpture using
optoisolators and triacs. Ridiculously simple once you figure it out.

>
>Real phase controlled dimmers need some SOLID EMI suppression
>to make them sort of electrically benign...

Since there was no audio involved I don't know how much EMI the thing gave
off but I'm sure it was there. Actually, the microcontroller running the
whole thing gave off a lot of RFI by itself.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Wed Aug 15 06:54:33 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:54:33 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
References: <200108141835.f7EIZhB02135@dns2.seanet.com> <3B79F2F2.13C01AF3@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <001b01c12546$60ebf760$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

In the really old days decals were available. Cut them off of the large
sheet. Use clear laquer to protect them.

Once I labeled a set of synthersizer modules with a Leroy set and India ink.
It was tedious but the results were good. I still have some of the modules
stored in the garage.

----- Original Message -----
From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
To: <tpaddock at seanet.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings


> The 40's / 50's would be GRAVOPLY lables... they are a black plastic
> with a white plastic overcoat.... us use a pantograph style engraver to
> cut through the white and expose the black. They are virtually
> indestructable.
>
> The label stock can even be had in large sheets, to do a whole front
> panel.
> Finsihed lables are glued or riveted to the panel.  Still used in
> industry today.
> Hmmm...  maybe an old engraver on e-bay ???
>
> H^) harry
>
> tpaddock at seanet.com wrote:
>
> > Harry,
> > But when dymo labels fell off you could still
> > read the letters in the fossilized goo. :)
> > I was kind of wondering what was pre-dymo?
> > Maybe I'm thinking 40s-50s instead of 50s-60s.
> > Punch letters on copper strips and "age" in
> > salt water? H2O2? Cola?
> >
> > I bet dymo dates back farther than I think.
> > Maybe I'll hit it with a heat gun to fade
> > it out a bit. (If I can find some) Nothing
> > says high-class like woodgrain dymo.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Toby Paddock
> > PS- I just checked ebay and sure
> > enough, there's lots of *vintage* Dymo.
> >
> > Harry wrote:
> > > If you want an authentic 60's look use labelmaker
> > > plastic tape once made by Dymo. Don't know if it
> > > still exists. It embossed litters into a thick
> > > plastic self adhesive tape.  It looked awful but
> > > I saw a LOT of homebuilt projects using it...
> > >
> > > Used it myself... eventually the adhesive dries
> > > out and the labels fall off... leaving a sticky
> > > residue behind.
> > >
> > > H^) harry
> > >
>



From dh at synthstuff.com  Wed Aug 15 06:55:54 2001
From: dh at synthstuff.com (David Halliday)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:55:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
In-Reply-To: <3B79F2F2.13C01AF3@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <002301c12546$90f1f900$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>

There is a BIG one for sale in Montreal - probably weighs around 300 pounds
*but* the bid is currently at $0.99 with six days to go.  Comes with letters
though...

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1627520930

smaller one by the same people but you supply your own letters...
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1627531375

Check out " view seller's other auctions " especially the turn-key Gold Mine
in Venezuela opening bid at $5k ( reserve not met )



-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of harry
-> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:57 PM
-> To: tpaddock at seanet.com
-> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> Subject: Re: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
->
->
-> The 40's / 50's would be GRAVOPLY lables... they are a black plastic
-> with a white plastic overcoat.... us use a pantograph style
-> engraver to
-> cut through the white and expose the black. They are virtually
-> indestructable.
->
-> The label stock can even be had in large sheets, to do a whole front
-> panel.
-> Finsihed lables are glued or riveted to the panel.  Still used in
-> industry today.
-> Hmmm...  maybe an old engraver on e-bay ???
->
-> H^) harry
->
-> tpaddock at seanet.com wrote:
->
-> > Harry,
-> > But when dymo labels fell off you could still
-> > read the letters in the fossilized goo. :)
-> > I was kind of wondering what was pre-dymo?
-> > Maybe I'm thinking 40s-50s instead of 50s-60s.
-> > Punch letters on copper strips and "age" in
-> > salt water? H2O2? Cola?
-> >
-> > I bet dymo dates back farther than I think.
-> > Maybe I'll hit it with a heat gun to fade
-> > it out a bit. (If I can find some) Nothing
-> > says high-class like woodgrain dymo.
-> >
-> > Thanks,
-> > Toby Paddock
-> > PS- I just checked ebay and sure
-> > enough, there's lots of *vintage* Dymo.
-> >
-> > Harry wrote:
-> > > If you want an authentic 60's look use labelmaker
-> > > plastic tape once made by Dymo. Don't know if it
-> > > still exists. It embossed litters into a thick
-> > > plastic self adhesive tape.  It looked awful but
-> > > I saw a LOT of homebuilt projects using it...
-> > >
-> > > Used it myself... eventually the adhesive dries
-> > > out and the labels fall off... leaving a sticky
-> > > residue behind.
-> > >
-> > > H^) harry
-> > >
->
->



From synth1 at airmail.net  Wed Aug 15 08:01:36 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 01:01:36 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM over time
References: <00a801c12511$34ff41a0$71765140@speakeasy.net> <20010815010205F.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <003101c1254f$be8adc20$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Well, MOTM actually was a DIRECT result of the synthDIY list. About 3 1/2
years ago I joined, and the month I started the posts were all about the
lack of quality synth kits. I never really thought that much about it. I was
an old Electronotes junkie (me and Bob Moog are listed together in Issue
#44, I think that was a sort of sign). Soon after I joined, I bought all of
the CEM chip inventory from Doug Curtis (he and I design DVM ASICs together
when I was at Tandy).

So, my initial 'business plan' was to redesign the Digisound modules,
popular in the UK in the mid-80s. In fact,
I turned up one UK system with (gulp) 283 modules!! (my vote for the largest
modular ever). Since I had the chips, the designs were easy and all that was
needed was a small 'upgrade' to better parts and maybe a new form factor.

Well, that idea proved to be quite unpopular. The 'general public' wanted
instead for me to sell the chips for repair
and 'resuce kits' for existing analog synths. So, my inital website was to
sell the chips. I decided to fund "something else" after I paid the chips
off (which was more that my first house cost).

Sales of the CEM chips were not nearly as....errrr...."robust" as I would
have hoped. But, there was still a yearning
both on the list at within me to "build SOMETHING". ASM-1s were quite
popular, so I really didn't want to do a "big"
project (HAHAHA!). I decided to offer REALLY cheap synth kits (like PAiA on
steroids).

Well, THAT was before I ever heard of Doepfer and Analog Solutions. Shot
that little project right in the head.

So, I decided to set aside $5,000 that CEM sales generated to build a new
kit that was high-end. I'm a stereophile nut
and if you have ever looked inside a $12,000 Mark Levinson monoblock you can
know what beauty in electrical design
is like. I wanted to build a 'audiophile synth'.

MOTM 'went live' on Valentine's Day (Feb. 14th) 1998. I told my wife that I
had 1 goal: get my $5,000 back + enough for a family vacation (about $2400).
This was a 18 month goal. Since the CEM response factor (actual orders
divided by positive emails) was about 0.05, I thought this was not a
slam-dunk but achievable.

I had exactly 2 modules to sell: the MOTM-900 Power Supply and the MOTM-110
Ring Mod/VCA. No credit cards,
no demo files, no decent website. BUT...I got 6 orders the first week!

The #1 struggle early on was sheet metal. I'll be the first to admit, I have
NO mechanical talent. I hired a good M.E.
to design the panels in AutoCAD. Soon after the site went live, he dided
suddenly. AutoCAD isn't exactly the world's
cheapest program, either. But I got it, and designed the MOTM-100 Noise/S&H
and the MOTM-19A rails all by
myself without incident (I will not talk about the $800 of other stuff that
went in the dumpster). THEN, the company
I had used for the sheetmetal told me I was "too small of a potential
business" and fired ME! I didn't know what to do. I had to pick up some
brackets at the paint shop (the metal shop didn't paint) which was run by 2
hippy brothers
straight out of Haight-Ashbury 1966. While I was waiting, I
...errrrr......nosed around in the outgoing mail section
and just 'happen to notice' lots of boxes going to a certain metal shop.
That's who I use now :)

When I started, my dream was to ship 1000 modules to 100 people. For 1
person with a 'real day job', that was pretty
ambitious. Well, I'm up to 2478 modules to 233 people! This summer I had 4
others working for me (all since left
for school). Now it's just little old me (sniff sniff).

I have been VERY VERY lucky with my customers, many who are on this site as
well as those who help me more than
I let on :) I sort of joke I screen my customers, but I do call every one
and thank them (you should see my 19 page phone bills). To my knowledge,
MOTM has not been slammed by a single CUSTOMER on a forum as this, on
AH/Harmony Cenral/SonicState/whatever. No one has ever asked for their money
back. I did lose a pending sale because I bad-mouthed Serge, but I have
reformed a great deal (really!).

I NEVER deamed someone I greatly admire, Robert Rich, would use MOTM on a
CD, much less devote an ENTIRE CD
to MOTM. I've been on cloud nine (as we say) all week. I could quit today
and have no regrets, but my customers would
have other thoughts!

In case you've forgotten: I do pay royalties for MOTM designs! Email me if
you have a design you want to see produced
as a MOTM module. I consider myself a "pretty good" analog designer, but
there are people on this list I am not worthy
to lick their solder iron tips clean. Lasy year I paid about $8,000 in
royalties.

I'll stop this diarreha of the keyboard now :) Thanks to everyone supporting
MOTM. No SDIY, no MOTM. Simple
as that.

Paul S.




From thomas at roundhouse.se  Wed Aug 15 08:18:11 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:18:11 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
In-Reply-To: <3B79F2F2.13C01AF3@prodigy.net>
References: <200108141835.f7EIZhB02135@dns2.seanet.com> <3B79F2F2.13C01AF3@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <v04220803b79fc41439d3@[213.112.172.244]>

Harry Bissell:
> The 40's / 50's would be GRAVOPLY lables... they are a black plastic
> with a white plastic overcoat.... us use a pantograph style engraver to
> cut through the white and expose the black. They are virtually
> indestructable.
>
> The label stock can even be had in large sheets, to do a whole front
> panel.
> Finsihed lables are glued or riveted to the panel.  Still used in
> industry today.
> Hmmm...  maybe an old engraver on e-bay ???

That looks very nice! I'd like a solution like that
for my modular. The best look is achieved if, as you
mention, use rivets to fasten the labels/plates to
the metal.

/Thomas
___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 15 09:18:04 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:18:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] audio controlled light show
References: <DFF1DE9BFABDD211A6F400A02461FE6F03AE2E0E@xsf1.dolby.com> <004b01c12511$78445360$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <3B79F61B.3F984D7C@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <003301c1255a$6d0c6de0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

SSR are triacs? didn't know that.

The dimmer packs I've used all brutally cut off part of the sine wave.
I worked for about 3 years as a theater technician, 3 days a week, unpaid,
talk about time consuming hobbies ;)
The work was actually more building up the stage and setting the lamps then
anything else.

Anyway, everybody always said the packs used triacs, but I never opened one
up to see myself.
If I understood correctly, the trick is to wait after the zero crossing
before switching the triad on, then it stayed on till the next zero
crossing.
Sounded rather simple.
If triads can't do the trick it probably where close relatives (discs?)
called by the wrong name.

And yes the packs needed solid emir suppression, but usually didn't have it!
or at least not solid enough.
Putting the packs away from all other equipment, and keeping all audio
cables far as possible from the light cables was the workable solution.
Due to the high power (2000 to 4000W per channel) the packs where already on
separate AC groups.
Even stuck in a far away closed, you can hear those dimmers work!

Cheers,
Theo


From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>

> Most SSR ARE Triacs, or inverse / parallel SCRs... with a built in
> optoisolated zerp voltage switching circuit.  They cannot be used for
> dimming except by dropping cycles, which will flicker the lamps badly.
>
> Real phase controlled dimmers need some SOLID EMI suppression
> to make them sort of electrically benign...
>
> H^) harry
>
> Theo wrote:
>
> > Most dimmer packs for theater use triacs to switch the lamps.
> > Probably a lot cheaper than using (solid-state) relays.
> >
> > There was a circuit for a "theater" dimmer pack in Elektor a while back
> > (sorry don't have the issue handy)
> > For the intended theater use it was a bit on the flimsy side, only
> > 500W/channel or so.
> > But for a audio disco show this Elektor circuit might give you all
> > inspiration you need ;)
> >
> > Maybe try a search for "dimmer pack circuits" or something like that.
> > There are bound to be lots of examples on the web.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Theo
> >
> > From: Brett, Bill <BJB at dolby.com>
> >
> > > Greetings,
> > > I am building a light controller that responds to an audio input. I
have
> > > figured out how I will do the audio signal to logic part of the
circuit.
> > > Question... how do I turn on/off the 120 AC for the lights. I thought
of
> > > using relays, but this will produce a slight lag between audio beat
and
> > > light pulse. Of course this lag will be added to the lag of the light
> > > powering up. Maybe this lag is insignificant? Does anyone now of a
> > schematic
> > > that uses solid state to do this?
> > > Thanks
> > > -Bill
> > >
>



From budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au  Wed Aug 15 11:51:13 2001
From: budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au (Benjamin M. Woenig)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:21:13 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
References: <200108141835.f7EIZhB02135@dns2.seanet.com> <3B79F2F2.13C01AF3@prodigy.net> <v04220803b79fc41439d3@[213.112.172.244]>
Message-ID: <024b01c1256f$d2cb9740$0c00a8c0@budweiser>

I've just found a company here in Adelaide Australia called
"Metalec", which do rack panels for industrial equipment. I
am about to release a limited quantity of modules which are
compatable with MOTM stuff (actually a 2unit standard rack
panel which has a similar layout to MOTM), I'll let on more
when everythings ready... 

Anyway, Metalec are going to do the one off prototype for
me for $200Aus (about $100US), which is all lettering/labelling,
holes, on a black anodized panel. Each panel there after will
be between $50 and $75Aus ($25 to approx $37US each).
I consider this (for Australia at least) to be quite reasonable
value for such a professional product.

All my attempts to labelling have been somewhat dodgy to say
the least. I tried Scotchcal(?) the 3M product which allows you
to print onto an aluminium sheet with a laser printer, and found
that drilling the holes and lining everything up was too tricky. The
label moved when i drilled through it, and trying to line up holes
was nearly imossible with trying to drill the label and the panel
seperately.

So for me, I don't have a problem with paying reasonable money
for a good product. The DIY route *possible* for decent looking
panels, but I just don't have the time/skills/equipment to do this.

~ben



From steven_thomas at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug 15 15:12:12 2001
From: steven_thomas at ntlworld.com (steven_thomas)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:12:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] test--ignore
Message-ID: <006501c1258b$e688ee60$8f57fc3e@st>

Synth DiY WebPages:-
Synth-DIY pages:-
http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ Synth DIY pages:-                                        +

+ http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm  + 

+                                                          +  

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

 

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From steven_thomas at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug 15 16:36:02 2001
From: steven_thomas at ntlworld.com (steven_thomas)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:36:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
Message-ID: <002101c12597$9c9feae0$8456fc3e@st>

Synth DiY WebPages:-Hi Proto..on my webpages below I discuss various methods involving toner-transfer process
and my experience with them. I would also like to find out if anyone has a method of 
homebrew silk-screening that works? There was some discussion on the list in the past about 
a diy s-s kit one could buy..but getting good results with it seemed v.difficult?
 
Hope you find the link useful,
cheers
steve


Synth-DIY pages:-
http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Prototek 
  To: Synth_diy 
  Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:16 AM
  Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings


     I'm considering all the different ways of applying the print/design on my future projects. I'd appreciate some general opinions on the different methods people have found useful. 
     I'm especially curious about silk screening. Can a hobbyist do this at home, or does it require serious machinery?

                         -Proto
  ------
  "By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
  Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

Synth-DIY pages:-
http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ Synth DIY pages:-                                        +

+ http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm  + 

+                                                          +  

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

 

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From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 17:01:34 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:01:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
Message-ID: <F32a4k3z6QEy0Dll7fn000082dd@hotmail.com>

Hi, I've been working away trying to build a little mono-synth but the next 
semester is nearly upon me so I'm revising my plans.  I've got a working 
filter I've built that I like a lot and I like the way all sorts of sounds 
work with it.  I am wanting to place the filter in a crybaby wah-wah housing 
and have the cutoff under foot control, I also want to have an envelope 
follower in there too with variable control voltage sent to the filter 
cutoff.  I'll place the knobs for input level, Envelope follower control and 
resonance on the top of the crybaby.  It should be lots of fun.

I cannot find a schematic for an envelope follower.  Can anyone direct me to 
a good envelope follower schematic, preferably a simple one?  I'm using +/- 
12v power. :-)

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)





_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From matti at devo.com  Wed Aug 15 17:02:45 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:02:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
In-Reply-To: <B79ED590.2190B%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108151052510.538-100000@whipit.devo.com>

k, so I've been watching _eraserhead_, and thinking.....

wouldn't one such mechanical system for those 400 years of shooting people
_be_ those 400 years of shooting at people? In eraserhead there is the
music of the piping thumping whistling ....pipes, engines, and whatnot.
each of these whatnots performs mathematical equations, just like analog
computers, and just like analog synthesizers. So instead of modeling the
analog method of modeling real systems, create a real system that models
these real systems? The biggest modular would be hardpressed to make the
sort of sounds you can get from a diesel engine.


Maybe I'm being obtuse..


On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Grant Richter wrote:

> That is not that far out.
>
> If you consider you could build a mechanical system (say pendulums with
> magnets) record the movements onto computer, and then play them back at high
> speed to shift the waveforms into the audio range.
>
> There is probably tons of slow datalogging files that could be reformatted
> to "fool" the computer in thinking it is an audio file.
>
> I think someone tried that with a years worth of seismic data. And then
> there was the "Earths Magnetic Field" record.
>
> > I suppose next someone could build a mechanical analog synth (I picture the
> > front panel work of the Bergfotron on steroids) that saves the results by
> > cutting grooves in a plastic disc like the RCA Mark II. Wouldn't even
> > require any tubes or BBD's to operate...
>
>

-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Wed Aug 15 17:19:12 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:19:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] MFC6040 VCA insect
References: <00a801c12511$34ff41a0$71765140@speakeasy.net> <20010815010205F.cfmd@swipnet.se> <003101c1254f$be8adc20$71765140@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <001301c1259d$a41642a0$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

I just found two MFC6040 VCA insect (6 pins) still in blister pack. Amazing
what lurks in the garage. (Don't go in alone.) Was someone looking for one
awhile back?



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Wed Aug 15 17:38:21 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:38:21 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
Message-ID: <db.18ec6b55.28abf16d@aol.com>

I remember seeing on the australian show alchemy a group of guys that made 
something called the thwaper.  it was used to make drum sounds and was a 
stick with magnets on each end that spun like a windmill and when it went 
over some sort of magnetic pickup this ould create a signal which was then 
routed through a box with a bunch of switches, and then to a rack of effects 
processors.

the use of magnets for creating/altering sounds has interested me ever since.

anyone else see this?

eduardo


From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Wed Aug 15 17:47:10 2001
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:47:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM over time
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010815084710.0075bcec@popserv.ucop.edu>

While I enjoyed Paul's retelling of the genesis of MOTM,
I must admit to being puzzled by the slow sales of the
CEM chips -- why aren't these being purchased?

I've been using them for twenty years now, & had nothing
but fun with them;  to those on the list who've been considering
their first projects, I would definitely recommend the
3320 filter chip -- easily configured & reconfigured into
all manner of useful filters (just finished linking three
together for a 12 stage phaser).

At $10 each, you could easily pick up two or three &
use them for any number of circuits (one advantage
of socketed circuit boards).

Just my opinion....

~G
______________________________________________________________________
Question:  What do you see as the role of the poet in today's society?
Leonard Cohen:  Search me.
Q:  Why did you become a poet?
LC:  To get the girls.
Q:  Did it work?
LC:  Pretty much so.


From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Wed Aug 15 18:01:08 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:01:08 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
References: <F32a4k3z6QEy0Dll7fn000082dd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000701c125a3$7fa066c0$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Envelope follower is basically a rectifier (absolute value) followed by a
very low pass filter (intergrator).

John
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 8:01 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower


> Hi, I've been working away trying to build a little mono-synth but the
next
> semester is nearly upon me so I'm revising my plans.  I've got a working
> filter I've built that I like a lot and I like the way all sorts of sounds
> work with it.  I am wanting to place the filter in a crybaby wah-wah
housing
> and have the cutoff under foot control, I also want to have an envelope
> follower in there too with variable control voltage sent to the filter
> cutoff.  I'll place the knobs for input level, Envelope follower control
and
> resonance on the top of the crybaby.  It should be lots of fun.
>
> I cannot find a schematic for an envelope follower.  Can anyone direct me
to
> a good envelope follower schematic, preferably a simple one?  I'm using
+/-
> 12v power. :-)
>
>          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



From sdcurtin at agere.com  Wed Aug 15 18:02:07 2001
From: sdcurtin at agere.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:02:07 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
Message-ID: <87008FA36E57F041AB826576738ADF5938268F@NJ8650EXCUAG01.ags.agere.com>

Matti,

Your point is a good one.  As Dana Massie (who worked as one of the main DSP
people at E-Mu for a long time) said once "you can't model a train wreck".
This is one of the reasons people like samplers, is that you get all that
complexity.  It's much more difficult to change it into something else
unless you have the model of it available, with all of the "handles" to that
sound.   This model will of necessity be "lossy" in nature.

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Agere Systems (formerly
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics)
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at agere.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	matti[SMTP:matti at devo.com]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, August 15, 2001 11:02 AM
> To: 	Grant Richter
> Cc: 	owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: 	Re: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
> 
> k, so I've been watching _eraserhead_, and thinking.....
> 
> wouldn't one such mechanical system for those 400 years of shooting people
> _be_ those 400 years of shooting at people? In eraserhead there is the
> music of the piping thumping whistling ....pipes, engines, and whatnot.
> each of these whatnots performs mathematical equations, just like analog
> computers, and just like analog synthesizers. So instead of modeling the
> analog method of modeling real systems, create a real system that models
> these real systems? The biggest modular would be hardpressed to make the
> sort of sounds you can get from a diesel engine.
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm being obtuse..
> 
> 
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Grant Richter wrote:
> 
> > That is not that far out.
> >
> > If you consider you could build a mechanical system (say pendulums with
> > magnets) record the movements onto computer, and then play them back at
> high
> > speed to shift the waveforms into the audio range.
> >
> > There is probably tons of slow datalogging files that could be
> reformatted
> > to "fool" the computer in thinking it is an audio file.
> >
> > I think someone tried that with a years worth of seismic data. And then
> > there was the "Earths Magnetic Field" record.
> >
> > > I suppose next someone could build a mechanical analog synth (I
> picture the
> > > front panel work of the Bergfotron on steroids) that saves the results
> by
> > > cutting grooves in a plastic disc like the RCA Mark II. Wouldn't even
> > > require any tubes or BBD's to operate...
> >
> >
> 
> -
> finland red
> germany black
> egypt white
> 


From ogzax at juno.com  Wed Aug 15 18:27:45 2001
From: ogzax at juno.com (Casey Crane)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:27:45 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CA3080 VCO
Message-ID: <20010815.092752.-205157.0.Ogzax@juno.com>

Hi all,

        Years ago, back in the 70's when I was getting the electronotes
newsletter I remember seeing a schematic for a nice triangle/square VCO
built around a CA3080 OTA. Does anyone know what I'm talking about ? Is
there a schematic of this somewhere on the web ?
Casey
________________________________________________________________
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Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tpe123 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 18:32:06 2001
From: tpe123 at yahoo.com (Tim Escobedo)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:32:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
Message-ID: <20010815163206.63332.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>

In-Reply-To: <F32a4k3z6QEy0Dll7fn000082dd at hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The easiest envelope follower circuits can probably be found in guitar
pedals. These generally involve tapping into the original signal,
amplifying it, rectifying it, and filtering it. The result is a DC
voltage proportional to the level of the original signal. It's
particularly effective with dynamic signals like those from electric
guitar. With a rather static signal, whose envelope characteristics are
more on/off, the envelope follower may be less effective unless
preceded by a EG/VCA, or some kind of "attack" control is built in to
the env follower. 

http://www.muzique.com/schem/quack.gif has a simple example of an
envelope follower (IC1a).

--- Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I've been working away trying to build a little mono-synth but
> the next
> semester is nearly upon me so I'm revising my plans.  I've got a
> working
> filter I've built that I like a lot and I like the way all sorts of
> sounds
> work with it.  I am wanting to place the filter in a crybaby wah-wah
> housing
> and have the cutoff under foot control, I also want to have an
> envelope
> follower in there too with variable control voltage sent to the
> filter
> cutoff.  I'll place the knobs for input level, Envelope follower
> control and
> resonance on the top of the crybaby.  It should be lots of fun.
>
> I cannot find a schematic for an envelope follower.  Can anyone
> direct me to
> a good envelope follower schematic, preferably a simple one?  I'm
> using +/-
> 12v power. :-)
>
>          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Aug 15 19:33:14 2001
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (GothGeek Sysadmin)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:33:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Synthaholic's Fatman Site
Message-ID: <20010815103314.D53127@moo.sysabend.org>

Anyone know whats up with Synthaholics Fatman site?  A couple weeks ago
I got around to finishing the wiring on the front panel on my Fatman and
have spent enough time with it to determine that it all works and now
I want to hotrod it a bit and I want to look at a few of his mods that arnt
mirrored at hyperreal.

I promise I'll have something more to post here soon besides questions...
:-)

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From thomas at roundhouse.se  Wed Aug 15 20:19:18 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:19:18 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
Message-ID: <v0422080bb7a06c96dbde@[213.112.172.244]>

I'd like to know what the difference is between these
two transistor arrays (the CA3086 and the CA3046)?
Why is CA3046 often used in synthesizers and the
CA3086 not? I've looked at the data sheets and found
no big difference:

CA3086:
http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4/fn483/FN483.pdf

CA3046:
http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn3/fn341/FN341.pdf

/Thomas
(Trying to straighten out the questionmarks.)
___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 20:27:28 2001
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:27:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
References: <B79ED2BA.21909%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1267c$1ce2a460$66c5893e@default>


You could check out the EML300 too.  I think this
must have been the first calculator style controller
for synths (unless, of course, you know different).

I haven't seen a schematic, but there are pics on
the usual websites (music machines etc)


Steve Ridley




From thomas at roundhouse.se  Wed Aug 15 20:44:16 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:44:16 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Synthaholic's Fatman Site
In-Reply-To: <20010815103314.D53127@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20010815103314.D53127@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <v0422080eb7a070d2daa3@[213.112.172.244]>

> Anyone know whats up with Synthaholics Fatman site?  A couple weeks ago
> I got around to finishing the wiring on the front panel on my Fatman and
> have spent enough time with it to determine that it all works and now
> I want to hotrod it a bit and I want to look at a few of his mods that arnt
> mirrored at hyperreal.
>
> I promise I'll have something more to post here soon besides questions...
> :-)

There are a lot of servers that don't respond these
days. I guess the reported viruses that attack servers
have something to do with it(?)

Have you checked out Paias FatMod page?

http://www.paia.com/fatmod.htm

Music Machines also has a lot of info on mods
for the FatMan:

http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Paia/Fatman/

Since I have built a FatMan and also bought a CS-5,
this will be something that I'm planing on building:

http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/synth/fatman2cs5.gif

/Thomas
___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From steven_thomas at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug 15 21:10:38 2001
From: steven_thomas at ntlworld.com (steven_thomas)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:10:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] my mc202 eats batteries...
Message-ID: <002e01c125bd$f87ef100$fa59fc3e@st>

Synth DiY WebPages:-Hi all,
          just finished repairing  an mc202 ( vcf res slider replacement amongst other things).
Anyway works fine on external power. When i tried with batteries..its fine for like 1/2 hour continuous play ..then the battery low indicator starts blinking.  To those MC202 users out there.. what kind of battery performance do you find.?
1/2 hour seems a bit lame to me. Looks like I havent quite finished my repairs...!
cheers

steve T




 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+ Synth DIY pages:-                                        +

+ http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm  + 

+                                                          +  

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Aug 15 22:02:36 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:02:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CA3080 VCO
References: <20010815.092752.-205157.0.Ogzax@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3B7AD55C.8E0BA409@silcom.com>

    Yes, although, I cannot point you to the schematic you want, here is a
schematic of an "Ota" based triangle VCO that I did:

http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/jp2rest/dualvco.pdf

    I built the OTA out of a THAT140 transistor array, which gave the
advantage of being able to use an NPN based exponential converter.  Also,
there is an electronic temperature compensation circiut the eliminates the
need for a +3300ppm compensation resistor....Although, this is in some ways
like saying "Why use on two by four, when five or six will do the same
job?" ;^)

    -Jim

Casey Crane wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>         Years ago, back in the 70's when I was getting the electronotes
> newsletter I remember seeing a schematic for a nice triangle/square VCO
> built around a CA3080 OTA. Does anyone know what I'm talking about ? Is
> there a schematic of this somewhere on the web ?
> Casey
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.



From grichter at asapnet.net  Wed Aug 15 22:05:56 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:05:56 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM over time
In-Reply-To: <003101c1254f$be8adc20$71765140@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <B7A04054.2196C%grichter@asapnet.net>

Congratulations Paul, that is truly a monumental achievement!

Most people do not realize how difficult it is produce quality items in
small volumes. It require tremendous resourcefulness and a dogged refusal to
be discouraged.

Best Regards,

Grant Richter
Wiard Synthesizer

> 
> When I started, my dream was to ship 1000 modules to 100 people. For 1
> person with a 'real day job', that was pretty
> ambitious. Well, I'm up to 2478 modules to 233 people! This summer I had 4
> others working for me (all since left
> for school). Now it's just little old me (sniff sniff).
> 




From grichter at asapnet.net  Wed Aug 15 22:07:48 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:07:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
In-Reply-To: <F32a4k3z6QEy0Dll7fn000082dd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B7A040C4.2196D%grichter@asapnet.net>

Look for the Arp 2600 envelope follower. That has always seemed to work
better than the other I have tried. It use a passive 24 dB per octave filter
at around 100 Hz.

> From: "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:01:34 -0400
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
> 
> Hi, I've been working away trying to build a little mono-synth but the next
> semester is nearly upon me so I'm revising my plans.  I've got a working
> filter I've built that I like a lot and I like the way all sorts of sounds
> work with it.  I am wanting to place the filter in a crybaby wah-wah housing
> and have the cutoff under foot control, I also want to have an envelope
> follower in there too with variable control voltage sent to the filter
> cutoff.  I'll place the knobs for input level, Envelope follower control and
> resonance on the top of the crybaby.  It should be lots of fun.
> 
> I cannot find a schematic for an envelope follower.  Can anyone direct me to
> a good envelope follower schematic, preferably a simple one?  I'm using +/-
> 12v power. :-)
> 
> -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
> (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 
> 




From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Aug 15 22:15:29 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:15:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
References: <v0422080bb7a06c96dbde@[213.112.172.244]>
Message-ID: <3B7AD861.794D9BBE@silcom.com>

    The CA3086 is basically the same part, but is not tested for any
matching specs.  In all likelyhood, the CA3086 will be just as well
matched as the CA3046, it's just that you will never really know (unless
you test it).  If you look at the CA3046 data sheet, you will see the
matching specs, but not on the CA3086.

    The thing I have found rather interesting, is that I have seen
places that sell the CA3086 for more than the CA3046.

    -Jim

Thomas Kahn wrote:

> I'd like to know what the difference is between these
> two transistor arrays (the CA3086 and the CA3046)?
> Why is CA3046 often used in synthesizers and the
> CA3086 not? I've looked at the data sheets and found
> no big difference:
>
> CA3086:
> http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4/fn483/FN483.pdf
>
> CA3046:
> http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn3/fn341/FN341.pdf
>
> /Thomas
> (Trying to straighten out the questionmarks.)
> ___________________________________
> Thomas Kahn
> Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
> ICQ: 19705911
> WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
> MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn



From grichter at asapnet.net  Wed Aug 15 22:20:24 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:20:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Trade for Fatman?
In-Reply-To: <v0422080eb7a070d2daa3@[213.112.172.244]>
Message-ID: <B7A043B7.2196E%grichter@asapnet.net>

My PAIA Fatman is gathering dust (kit bought when first came out).

Time to move it on to someone else.

Professionally assembled and calibrated, PC board defluxed with good
soldering. Latest software version.

Will trade for a single Blacet, MOTM, Aries module or ?

Contact grichter at asapnet.net




From thomas at roundhouse.se  Wed Aug 15 22:26:45 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:26:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
In-Reply-To: <3B7AD861.794D9BBE@silcom.com>
References: <v0422080bb7a06c96dbde@[213.112.172.244]> <3B7AD861.794D9BBE@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <v04220816b7a08ab1eea8@[213.112.172.244]>

Thomas Kahn:
>> I'd like to know what the difference is between these
>> two transistor arrays (the CA3086 and the CA3046)?

Mike Granger:
> I believe ARP used the 3086 extensively in their early designs. The
> devices are very similar, but I think the guaranteed specs were tighter
> for the 3046. The 3086 was cheaper, and ARP used them very sucessfully.

Jim Patchell:
>     The CA3086 is basically the same part, but is not tested for any
> matching specs.  In all likelyhood, the CA3086 will be just as well
> matched as the CA3046, it's just that you will never really know (unless
> you test it).  If you look at the CA3046 data sheet, you will see the
> matching specs, but not on the CA3086.
>
>     The thing I have found rather interesting, is that I have seen
> places that sell the CA3086 for more than the CA3046.

Thanks!
So, if you're a bit of a gambler it would be
quite allrigt to use the CA3086 instead of the CA3046
in a VCO design?

/Thomas
___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Wed Aug 15 22:40:13 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:40:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] my mc202 eats batteries...
In-Reply-To: <002e01c125bd$f87ef100$fa59fc3e@st>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010815152502.063eb160@mailhub.verio.net>

I gotta put a spring in mine before I can test the battery concept...kerblah.

Joshua

At 02:10 PM 8/15/01, you wrote:
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = 
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
>Hi all,
>           just finished repairing  an mc202 ( vcf res slider replacement 
> amongst other things).
>Anyway works fine on external power. When i tried with batteries..its fine 
>for like 1/2 hour continuous play ..then the battery low indicator starts 
>blinking.  To those MC202 users out there.. what kind of battery 
>performance do you find.?
>1/2 hour seems a bit lame to me. Looks like I havent quite finished my 
>repairs...!
>cheers
>
>steve T
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>+ Synth DIY pages:-                                        +
>
>+ 
><http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm>http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm 
>+
>
>+                                                          +
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>

Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From rrowley at btinternet.com  Wed Aug 15 22:53:15 2001
From: rrowley at btinternet.com (RichR)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:53:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] VCS3 EG
References: <3.0.5.32.20010815225414.00eb1e20@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <000501c125cc$5488eba0$b33d073e@c7i1i9>

Hi
Has anyone successfully built the VCS3 envelope shaper from the schematic
posted on the Hinton instruments website.I've just read in the archives that
these diagrams include deliberate errors!???
tia
Rich



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Wed Aug 15 22:54:14 2001
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:54:14 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CA3080 VCO
In-Reply-To: <20010815.092752.-205157.0.Ogzax@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010815225414.00eb1e20@mailout.uni-bonn.de>


There is such a circuit in either the datasheet for the 3080 or the AN6668.
No expo convertor though. These should be available thru Intersil. 

Cheers,
 Ren?

At 09:27 15.08.01 -0700, Casey Crane wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>        Years ago, back in the 70's when I was getting the electronotes
>newsletter I remember seeing a schematic for a nice triangle/square VCO
>built around a CA3080 OTA. Does anyone know what I'm talking about ? Is
>there a schematic of this somewhere on the web ?
>Casey
>________________________________________________________________
>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
>Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Wed Aug 15 23:01:58 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:01:58 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] pc mount transformer Q.
Message-ID: <118.33c3332.28ac3d46@aol.com>

Hi everybody, I got a PC mount transformer by mistake (to focused on the 
specs and price to notice!)  But I figure I can still use it.  the thing is 
that it can be configured in series or in parallel.  it is 24VCT and it has 
the option to be used with 115V or 230V (one of themain reasons I got it.

there is a diagram like this


     1-----------\    /-------------5
            )    (
            )    (  
            )    (
            )    (
     2-----------/     \----------- 6
 
     3-----------\    /-------------7
            )    (
            )    (  
            )    (
            )    (
     4-----------/     \----------- 8

ok, for 115V it says to tie pins 1 to 3 and 2 to 4, apply (AC voltage?) to 
pins 1 to 2 (no ideas why it says 'to' and not and between 1 & 2)

it's got a series tie instruction, but I am after two 12V outputs, so I guess 
that's paralell, which says to tie 5 to 7 and 6 to 8, and the parallel output 
is on 6 TO 8.

I was figuring that I just apply the voltage to pins 1 &2 and pins 6 and 8 
would each put out 12 VAC, and I figured I could just look for where ground 
is with my DVM. 
does this sound right?

But since it is 115V AC, I figure it best to risk pestering you guys and 
check so as not to blow myself up.

thanks.

forever in your debt (my first born up for grabs ;)

Eduardo



From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 23:12:23 2001
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (Trevor Page)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:12:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] my mc202 eats batteries...
References: <002e01c125bd$f87ef100$fa59fc3e@st>
Message-ID: <000e01c125ce$fbd956e0$1bbf193e@trevspc>

Synth DiY WebPages:-Hi,

I'd start at the power supply and determine whether the fault is within that
section, or one of the circuits that loads it.

It's possible that the DC to DC converter (power supply) may be maintaining
the correct output voltages but perhaps it's become inefficient somehow, and
excessive power is being dissipated in there somewhere? Check the
semiconductors within the power supply - particuarly the larger power
devices.

If not that, then excessive current is being drawn off one or more output
voltage lines. Check for correct voltage on each one: 12V, -9V, -5.3V and
whatever else is in there. Measure the current on each one.

Unless the MC202 really is bad on batteries (though I doubt that)! I never
did run my 202 off batteries, so I wouldn't really know.


Trev



==========

----- Original Message -----
From: steven_thomas
To: Synth-DIY
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 8:10 PM
Subject: [sdiy] my mc202 eats batteries...


Hi all,
          just finished repairing  an mc202 ( vcf res slider replacement
amongst other things).
Anyway works fine on external power. When i tried with batteries..its fine
for like 1/2 hour continuous play ..then the battery low indicator starts
blinking.  To those MC202 users out there.. what kind of battery performance
do you find.?
1/2 hour seems a bit lame to me. Looks like I havent quite finished my
repairs...!
cheers

steve T





























++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Synth DIY pages:-                                        +
+ http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm  +
+                                                          +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Wed Aug 15 23:33:30 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:33:30 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Re: pc mount transformer Q.
Message-ID: <b0.18c44db8.28ac44aa@aol.com>

oh yeah. the 1-4 side says primary, and the 5-8 says secondary.



From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 23:35:24 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:35:24 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
Message-ID: <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com>

Well, the 3086 is used in the Oberheim SEM.  Their advertisements from the 
time claim that tuning stability was better than ALL the competition.  Maybe 
people are not using the 3086 because they're just *too* good. (:-)

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: Thomas Kahn <thomas at roundhouse.se>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
>Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:19:18 +0200
>
>I'd like to know what the difference is between these
>two transistor arrays (the CA3086 and the CA3046)?
>Why is CA3046 often used in synthesizers and the
>CA3086 not? I've looked at the data sheets and found
>no big difference:
>
>CA3086:
>http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4/fn483/FN483.pdf
>
>CA3046:
>http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn3/fn341/FN341.pdf
>
>/Thomas
>(Trying to straighten out the questionmarks.)
>___________________________________
>Thomas Kahn
>Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
>ICQ: 19705911
>WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
>MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Wed Aug 15 23:37:42 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:37:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Data formats in Eprom based drum machines and Romplers 
References: <NBBBJDABEPKADOHHFCFAEEDEDDAA.gendreau@rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <011b01c125d3$c78824c0$d666073e@paul>

Dan,

> > are there any other formats I should be familiar with ?
>
> Not really another format, but if you may want to be aware of a variation
on
> the "linear encoding" ROM format.
> Another trick that was used to increase dynamic range back in the day in
> some drum machines (most notably the Roland TR909, TR707, TR727, and the
> Boss DRP-* pads) employed a hardware envelope to the DAC output. The data
in
> the ROM was audio-compressed and the hardware envelope (either an RC
> envelope or derived from the rom address using an exponential DAC)
restores
> the original dynamic range. The ROM data will sound very harsh if you do
not
> account for this output EG in some way.


Also be carefull of the Address lines..
The tr909 is a good example.. to make PCB layout they switched some address
lines,
so if you read data starting from address 0000 you will get noise out of it,
and not a hihat :-)

Paul
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Wed Aug 15 23:44:41 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:44:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM over time
References: <B7A04054.2196C%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <011d01c125d3$c98ef140$d666073e@paul>

Grant,

> Most people do not realize how difficult it is produce quality items in
> small volumes. It require tremendous resourcefulness and a dogged refusal
to
> be discouraged.

I agree..
Im trying to start selling my monowave, but theres a VERY steep learning
curve involved in things such as case design.
CE approval, silk screening, PCB design and manufacturing...

Its a great learning experience, but man its hard work..

Paul
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Aug 15 23:45:54 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:45:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] pc mount transformer Q.
In-Reply-To: <118.33c3332.28ac3d46@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010815171146.18438E-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> there is a diagram like this
> 
>      1-----------\    /-------------5
>             )    (
>             )    (  
>             )    (
>             )    (
>      2-----------/     \----------- 6
>  
>      3-----------\    /-------------7
>             )    (
>             )    (  
>             )    (
>             )    (
>      4-----------/     \----------- 8
> 
> ok, for 115V it says to tie pins 1 to 3 and 2 to 4, apply (AC voltage?) to 
> pins 1 to 2 (no ideas why it says 'to' and not and between 1 & 2)

   That is correct, just parallel the two windings to give you full 115V 
power.  BTW, you _can_ use just one winding, but it'll only produce half 
the rated power output on the other side.

> it's got a series tie instruction, but I am after two 12V outputs, so I guess 
> that's paralell, which says to tie 5 to 7 and 6 to 8, and the parallel output 
> is on 6 TO 8.

   If you tie the two secondaries in series, then it becomes a center 
tapped design allowing you to get both +/- 12V out or just 24V out.  If 
you just want two separate 12V supplies, then leave the two windings 
separated!  You'll need to set up two bridge rectifiers and regulators 
and assundries however!

> I was figuring that I just apply the voltage to pins 1 &2 and pins 6 and 8 
> would each put out 12 VAC, and I figured I could just look for where ground 
> is with my DVM. does this sound right?

   There really isn't a ground on the secondary, the voltages induced 
there "float" unless you reference one side of the winding.  That's a 
good thing since you can literally short it out and it won't blow up!
   With two bridge rectifiers in place, just tie the two negative outputs 
together and that will become the ground.  Then the two positive outs 
will lead into individual filter caps and regulators.

> But since it is 115V AC, I figure it best to risk pestering you guys and 
> check so as not to blow myself up.

   That's always a good thing!  115V (or higher) always makes me a bit 
edgy!

   Good luck!

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001




From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Wed Aug 15 23:57:44 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:57:44 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] pc mount transformer Q.
Message-ID: <88.adff440.28ac4a58@aol.com>

AH!!  I want +/-12V, so I want series!

so no 0V huh? I can live with that.

series says to tie pins 6 and 7, and the output is 5 and 8, each at 12 V, ?
so what would that make the tied pins 6 and 7?  would that be zero?

thanks for the help.

Ed 


From clark at andrews.edu  Thu Aug 16 00:02:09 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:02:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] pc mount transformer Q.
In-Reply-To: <88.adff440.28ac4a58@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010815175959.8064C-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> AH!!  I want +/-12V, so I want series!
> 
> so no 0V huh? I can live with that.

   Ah, well in that case, the center point of the two secondary windings 
will become your ground point!  Check out this link to get an idea of how 
to set it up:

   http://www.ee.umd.edu/~bassel/man/node11.html

   Hope that helps!

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Thu Aug 16 00:07:47 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:07:47 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] pc mount transformer Q.
Message-ID: <110.3ddf9c2.28ac4cb3@aol.com>

I'M NOT GOING TO BLOW UP!!!

THANKS!!

extremely helpful!

eduardo


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Thu Aug 16 00:34:03 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:34:03 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM over time
In-Reply-To: <003101c1254f$be8adc20$71765140@speakeasy.net>
References: <00a801c12511$34ff41a0$71765140@speakeasy.net>
	<20010815010205F.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<003101c1254f$be8adc20$71765140@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20010816003403M.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1 at airmail.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MOTM over time
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 01:01:36 -0500

Paul,

This was a very interesting little view on things. It was exactly what
I was really eager to hear from you!

I do recall when you started it all, but after the initial stuff it
got a bit quiet and at one time I got somewhat annoyed (yes, I openly
admitt this, just to be honest to Paul and others) by the way you did
your advertisements for MOTM. Early out I recommended it, but then
dropped it after being somewhat annoyed. Well, after that it was just
quite again and the MOTM hints I've seen lately is more in line with
what I find acceptable. Anyway, in the same time, I can't blame you,
you where just trying to promote your stuff. It's not an issue
anymore, but it is part of the history.

I've never actually seen a MOTM in real life, and I haven't heard one
either (not much for playing demo MP3s all over the place) but I have
never had any reason to question the quality of them. I'd love to have
a system up on my bench and check them out.

I'm certainly happy to see that the MOTM is thriving, we need such
things. Analog still has its place IMHO. I am not a purist, just
saying that there is a place for everything (well allmost everything)
and analogue stuff can do very neat stuff where digital solutions is
way to over-rated. I can add that I bring this into practice at work
where I toss bad digital solutions out and drop sufficiently good
analogue solutions in.

What not everyone here knows is that way back in time Paul and I had
some discussions on having me design one or a few MOTM modules, among
those a sequencer. As it happend normal (real) life got in the way and
the whole thing died out.

> I NEVER deamed someone I greatly admire, Robert Rich, would use MOTM on a
> CD, much less devote an ENTIRE CD
> to MOTM. I've been on cloud nine (as we say) all week. I could quit today
> and have no regrets, but my customers would
> have other thoughts!

I know what you mean. Most of the times you don't really think of what
the stuff you develope is actually being used for. But when you do
think, it blows you off. It is actually a lovely feeling ;O)

For me, this can give a rush similar to when I have hit onto a really
*really* neat design solution to some (presumably messy) problem. I
sometimes get so high that I *really* need to cool down, just to be
efficient enought to write it down and work out the details. Not
everyone seems to recognice this kind of drug, but designing can be so
rewarding at times.

> In case you've forgotten: I do pay royalties for MOTM designs! Email me if
> you have a design you want to see produced
> as a MOTM module. I consider myself a "pretty good" analog designer, but
> there are people on this list I am not worthy
> to lick their solder iron tips clean. Lasy year I paid about $8,000 in
> royalties.

This is one of the things which I think is the right way to do it.

> I'll stop this diarreha of the keyboard now :) Thanks to everyone supporting
> MOTM. No SDIY, no MOTM. Simple
> as that.

Thanks Paul! Thanks for your work so far and thanks for this little
look back at times. Since I like to learn the history around
development of stuff, this puts MOTM into a better perspective IMHO.

I hope that you've enjoyed the comments, even if they have not all
been the showing of best sides at times.

Last but not least.... I admire you for daring taking on such a project!!!

Respectfully Yours,
Magnus - designer addict



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Thu Aug 16 01:05:04 2001
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:05:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
In-Reply-To: <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 17:35 15.08.01 -0400, Dr Strangelove wrote:
>Well, the 3086 is used in the Oberheim SEM.  Their advertisements from the 
>time claim that tuning stability was better than ALL the competition.  Maybe 
>people are not using the 3086 because they're just *too* good. (:-)

Well, I think that is actually due to the circuit topology. Apart from
using a tempco resistor for temperature compensation, its reference current
is chosen so that the temperature dependancy is minimal. (Arround the
reference current the impact of drift is lower than at very low or high
frequencies.) Also the SEM has a Rbe correction, which renders the not too
great transistors in an 3086 or 3046 in a respectably precise expo convertor.

Cheers,
 Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Aug 16 02:13:30 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:13:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
References: <v0422080bb7a06c96dbde@[213.112.172.244]> <3B7AD861.794D9BBE@silcom.com> <v04220816b7a08ab1eea8@[213.112.172.244]>
Message-ID: <3B7B102A.9BF8B3EA@silcom.com>



Thomas Kahn wrote:

>
> Thanks!
> So, if you're a bit of a gambler it would be
> quite allrigt to use the CA3086 instead of the CA3046
> in a VCO design?
>

    Yes, it should work just the same.

>
> /Thomas
> ___________________________________
> Thomas Kahn
> Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
> ICQ: 19705911
> WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
> MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au  Thu Aug 16 02:16:00 2001
From: budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au (Benjamin M. Woenig)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:46:00 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
References: <B7A04054.2196C%grichter@asapnet.net> <011d01c125d3$c98ef140$d666073e@paul>
Message-ID: <008e01c125e8$a3303350$0c00a8c0@budweiser>

What's involved with CE approval?

~ben

> I agree..
> Im trying to start selling my monowave, but theres a VERY steep learning
> curve involved in things such as case design.
> CE approval, silk screening, PCB design and manufacturing...
> 
> Its a great learning experience, but man its hard work..
> 
> Paul




From sbernardi at home.net  Thu Aug 16 02:42:53 2001
From: sbernardi at home.net (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:42:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CA3080 VCO
References: <20010815.092752.-205157.0.Ogzax@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3B7B170D.CBA8E16D@home.net>

Try http://members.home.net/sbernardi/elec/lfo.html. This is actually an
LFO, but if you decrease the value of C2 to 1000pF or so it will make an
acceptable VCO. Get rid of the dual color LED (since that is meaningless at
audio frequencies.
Some modifications can be made to improve the exponential generator:
R4 can be a tempco resistor for temperature compensation, if desired
Your CV inputs should be 100K going in to the summing node of U1:A.
I'd increase R5 to decrease the reference current.
R2 isn't needed.
The output of U1:A should be tied to Q2's base, and Q1's base should be
grounded. This will give you a positive increase in frequency for positive
control voltages.
A uA301 can be substituted for the 748 (U3).
Q1 and Q2 could be THAT-120's for better performance. Otherwise, you need
to match them (see http://members.home.net/sbernardi/elec/og2/xxxx for a
transistor matching circuit).
The ends of the FREQ pot should go through resistors to +V and -V. Measure
what voltage range at the wiper of R1 is at to get your desired frequency
range, then choose the resistors to get these voltages.
A FINE FREQ pot can be run between the rails with a 1M resistor to the U1:A
summing node.

Casey Crane wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>         Years ago, back in the 70's when I was getting the electronotes
> newsletter I remember seeing a schematic for a nice triangle/square VCO
> built around a CA3080 OTA. Does anyone know what I'm talking about ? Is
> there a schematic of this somewhere on the web ?
> Casey
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at home.net




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug 16 02:49:06 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:49:06 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
References: <20010815163206.63332.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B7B1881.140D5681@prodigy.net>

One very important point of "envelope follower" is...

what do you want it to follow ?

For guitar use, I prefer a peak detector circuit to a rectifier / filter
circuit.
The peak detect has a fast rise time and slow decay....

The trade is between acceptable response time, and acceptable ripple
in the output. For guitar and bass, by the time you reduce ripple
(causes harmonic and IM distortion in units driven by the CV...) you have
killed the response time.  Can't win...

H^) harry



Tim Escobedo wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <F32a4k3z6QEy0Dll7fn000082dd at hotmail.com>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> The easiest envelope follower circuits can probably be found in guitar
> pedals. These generally involve tapping into the original signal,
> amplifying it, rectifying it, and filtering it. The result is a DC
> voltage proportional to the level of the original signal. It's
> particularly effective with dynamic signals like those from electric
> guitar. With a rather static signal, whose envelope characteristics are
> more on/off, the envelope follower may be less effective unless
> preceded by a EG/VCA, or some kind of "attack" control is built in to
> the env follower.
>
> http://www.muzique.com/schem/quack.gif has a simple example of an
> envelope follower (IC1a).
>
> --- Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi, I've been working away trying to build a little mono-synth but
> > the next
> > semester is nearly upon me so I'm revising my plans.  I've got a
> > working
> > filter I've built that I like a lot and I like the way all sorts of
> > sounds
> > work with it.  I am wanting to place the filter in a crybaby wah-wah
> > housing
> > and have the cutoff under foot control, I also want to have an
> > envelope
> > follower in there too with variable control voltage sent to the
> > filter
> > cutoff.  I'll place the knobs for input level, Envelope follower
> > control and
> > resonance on the top of the crybaby.  It should be lots of fun.
> >
> > I cannot find a schematic for an envelope follower.  Can anyone
> > direct me to
> > a good envelope follower schematic, preferably a simple one?  I'm
> > using +/-
> > 12v power. :-)
> >
> >          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
> >        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From sbernardi at home.net  Thu Aug 16 02:52:41 2001
From: sbernardi at home.net (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:52:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Linear vs. Exponential control of VCA's
Message-ID: <3B7B1959.EDF08D14@home.net>

What are people's thoughts about linear vs. exponential control of
VCA's? VCA's are usually controlled by envelope generators which already
output exponential waveforms, so if you input these into an exponential
control input, aren't you getting a "double" exponential response? Does
one sound more natural than another?
A VCA that is going to be controlled by a linear voltage should have an
exponential response. For example, my og2 synth project is going to have
a VCA controlled by the MIDI Mod Wheel voltage, and also one controlled
by MIDI Velocity (for touch sensitivity).

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at home.net




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug 16 02:55:39 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:55:39 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Trade for Fatman?
References: <B7A043B7.2196E%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <3B7B1A0B.28921869@prodigy.net>

Grant Richter wrote:

> My PAIA Fatman is gathering dust  <snip>
> Will trade for a single Blacet, MOTM, Aries module or ? <unsnip>
>
> A Wiard MiniWave perhaps ???

<sarcastic mode off...  tee hee hee>   ;^P

H^) harry



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug 16 02:59:16 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:59:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] pc mount transformer Q.
References: <88.adff440.28ac4a58@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B7B1AE3.737F716D@prodigy.net>

That depends on what you do with the rectifier diodes...  If you are
using the Full Wave Center Tap configutation, then the center tap will
be zero volts.

H^) harry

ElmacacoX at aol.com wrote:

> AH!!  I want +/-12V, so I want series!
>
> so no 0V huh? I can live with that.
>
> series says to tie pins 6 and 7, and the output is 5 and 8, each at 12 V, ?
> so what would that make the tied pins 6 and 7?  would that be zero?
>
> thanks for the help.
>
> Ed



From jlarryh at iquest.net  Thu Aug 16 03:00:07 2001
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:00:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM over time
References: <00a801c12511$34ff41a0$71765140@speakeasy.net><20010815010205F.cfmd@swipnet.se><003101c1254f$be8adc20$71765140@speakeasy.net> <20010816003403M.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <003201c125ee$cbcae340$c6372bd1@oemcomputer>

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>
> I've never actually seen a MOTM in real life, 
> and I haven't heard one either (not much for 
> playing demo MP3s all over the place) but I have
> never had any reason to question the quality of 
> them. I'd love to have a system up on my bench
> and check them out.

Be careful !  Once you do see, feel and hear, they
become addictive.

> I'm certainly happy to see that the MOTM is thriving,
> we need such things.

Absolutely.  I must have arrived at S-DIY about the same
time as Paul.  However, after being away from electronics
for 20+ years in high-voltage work, I was not sure I was 
ready for true DIY work.  When Paul started looking for 
input for MOTM, I thought it might be OK for me since
kits have never been a problem.  Well, I started with MOTM
and have since graduated to some simple DIY stuff to go along
with it.  But, I owe my learning and improved design and 
construction habits to following the example of how Paul
select the no compromise to quality approach.with MOTM.

> Last but not least.... I admire you for daring taking on
> such a project!!!

Over 200 of us as MOTM customers really appreciate it too.
We are all glad Paul didn't quit when he had his $5000 back and
vacation paid for.  What would I have done with only two modules?
<grin>

I suspect most of the people on this list don't need MOTM.  Many
of you have the design skills to jump into a project with little more
than an idea for a schematic.  BUT, I KNOW there are guys out there
like me that are looking for a place to get there feet wet and learn.
To me that is one of the best features of buying MOTM.  Paul not
only provides us a great product, but you just cannot help but learn
if you try at all.  If one cannot build MOTM following Paul's instructions,
they might want to consider some other hobby.  :)

So, as a relative "newbie" and too old to be called one, I appreciate
what I have learned from Paul, MOTM, and other members of this list.

Congratulations Paul on the continued success of your "baby."  May
your love for "synth" always blind you from what you make per-hour
on this MOTM gig!

Larry Hendry
satisfied MOTM customer and addict.




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu Aug 16 03:33:08 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:33:08 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] VCS3 EG
References: <3.0.5.32.20010815225414.00eb1e20@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <000501c125cc$5488eba0$b33d073e@c7i1i9>
Message-ID: <005e01c125f3$697f0fe0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

Not me...I've tried a few times but no joy yet. Synth manufactures 
used to send out batches of corrections almost monthly. It's a lot more 
likely that the errors were initially just mistakes that were never corrected 
on the schematic. However...it works nicely as copy protection..;-)

Tom


> Hi
> Has anyone successfully built the VCS3 envelope shaper from the schematic
> posted on the Hinton instruments website.I've just read in the archives that
> these diagrams include deliberate errors!???
> tia
> Rich
> 



From dh at synthstuff.com  Thu Aug 16 03:44:37 2001
From: dh at synthstuff.com (David Halliday)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:44:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIY silkscreening at home
In-Reply-To: <002101c12597$9c9feae0$8456fc3e@st>
Message-ID: <001d01c125f5$02b02cc0$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>

Synth DiY WebPages:-The problem I had trying to do home-brew silk screening
is that you really need some large expensive things to get the quality you
want.  Doing a couple tee-shirts is one thing but a well done metal panel is
something else entirely.

A vacuum frame to expose the screen; a huge sink to coat , develop and clean
it; a good evenly diffused source of UV light ( mercury arc ); the list goes
on...

I used to own a small copy-print business and still didn't have the
resources to do them properly.

I found that going to local screen shops, you could frequently talk the
owners into doing the work for you for pretty cheap or for a trade.  Offer
some computer skills, build some electronics, etc...  You will want to buy
the screen and the ink but you should be able to negotiate your way into
using the other resources with little problem.

Another option is that most high schools and colleges have some kind of arts
program and they are always on the lookout for interesting projects to do -
offer to buy the teacher some supplies or something, their budgets are
always tight.


  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of steven_thomas
  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:36 AM
  To: Synth-DIY
  Subject: Re: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings


  Hi Proto..on my webpages below I discuss various methods involving
toner-transfer process
  and my experience with them. I would also like to find out if anyone has a
method of
  homebrew silk-screening that works? There was some discussion on the list
in the past about
  a diy s-s kit one could buy..but getting good results with it seemed
v.difficult?

  Hope you find the link useful,
  cheers
  steve


  Synth-DIY pages:-
  http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Prototek
    To: Synth_diy
    Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:16 AM
    Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings


       I'm considering all the different ways of applying the print/design
on my future projects. I'd appreciate some general opinions on the different
methods people have found useful.
       I'm especially curious about silk screening. Can a hobbyist do this
at home, or does it require serious machinery?

                           -Proto
    ------
    "By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
    Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator"

  Synth-DIY pages:-
  http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm


















































  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  + Synth DIY pages:-                                        +

  + http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm  +

  +                                                          +

  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



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From dh at synthstuff.com  Thu Aug 16 03:48:56 2001
From: dh at synthstuff.com (David Halliday)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:48:56 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
In-Reply-To: <B79ED590.2190B%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <002301c125f5$9ce2a980$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>

Our neck of the woods recently had an earthquake ( the Nisqually about three
months ago ) and someone took the seismo data, converted it to a MIDI file
and used that as the lead.  The then "orchestrated" some fill and it sounds
pretty interesting!

They did the same for the Loma Preita quake in San Francisco and the quality
of the music was quite different.

This might be a fun thing to work with...

-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Grant Richter
-> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 11:18 AM
-> To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
->
->
-> That is not that far out.
->
-> If you consider you could build a mechanical system (say
-> pendulums with
-> magnets) record the movements onto computer, and then play
-> them back at high
-> speed to shift the waveforms into the audio range.
->
-> There is probably tons of slow datalogging files that could
-> be reformatted
-> to "fool" the computer in thinking it is an audio file.
->
-> I think someone tried that with a years worth of seismic
-> data. And then
-> there was the "Earths Magnetic Field" record.
->
-> > I suppose next someone could build a mechanical analog
-> synth (I picture the
-> > front panel work of the Bergfotron on steroids) that saves
-> the results by
-> > cutting grooves in a plastic disc like the RCA Mark II.
-> Wouldn't even
-> > require any tubes or BBD's to operate...
->
->
->



From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Aug 16 03:52:39 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:52:39 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] VCS3 EG
References: <3.0.5.32.20010815225414.00eb1e20@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <000501c125cc$5488eba0$b33d073e@c7i1i9> <005e01c125f3$697f0fe0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3B7B2767.1C42C681@silcom.com>

    Where is this schematic located.  I am always up for a challenge.

"tomg at efm" wrote:

> Not me...I've tried a few times but no joy yet. Synth manufactures
> used to send out batches of corrections almost monthly. It's a lot more
> likely that the errors were initially just mistakes that were never corrected
> on the schematic. However...it works nicely as copy protection..;-)
>
> Tom
>
> > Hi
> > Has anyone successfully built the VCS3 envelope shaper from the schematic
> > posted on the Hinton instruments website.I've just read in the archives that
> > these diagrams include deliberate errors!???
> > tia
> > Rich
> >

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From synth1 at airmail.net  Thu Aug 16 04:49:58 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:49:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Copy protection via errors
Message-ID: <000f01c125fe$2498d040$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Probably the most famous case of this was TI versus Mostek in the calculator
chip wars of 1972-1976.

Mostek was a bunch of ex-TI'ers that reversed engineered/copied TI designs.
All they did was re-layout the
gates, so when you looked at a chip photo they appeared different.

Mostek was really undercutting TI in the basic calculator chips, and when
the SR-51 was planned, they REALLY
didn't want this 'flagship' design ripped off. So, they added a little set
of about 60 random logic gates, spread out
all over the chip.

Of course, Mostek copied it, and TI sued.

In court, Mostek spent hours and hours pointing out to the judge & jury how
'different' the 2 chips were. Why,
they were different sizes, and see, they LOOKED different! How could they be
the same?

The TI laywer stood up, pulled out a prototype and said, "Your honor and
ladies and gentlemen of the jury. TI engineers added undocumented circuitry
to this chip. Only 4 people know about this. The circuitry is only activated
at power up when 3 certain keys are pressed when the calculator is switched
on. The circuitry spells a certain message
in the display, when the calculator is held upside down. We would like to
demonstrate!"

Mostek layers immediately jumped up and asked for a recess. They settled out
of court, and 1 year later Mostek was sold to United Technologies, out of
the calculator chip business forever.

Oh, the message in the display: "U ALL SUC".

Paul S.






From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Thu Aug 16 05:38:45 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:38:45 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation
References: <002301c125f5$9ce2a980$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <000701c12604$f41f4820$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Here is the seismology data in ASCII format:

http://www.geophys.washington.edu/SEIS/EQ_Special/WEBDIR_01022818543p/welcom
e.html




----- Original Message -----
From: David Halliday <dh at synthstuff.com>
To: <grichter at asapnet.net>; <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:48 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Voltage Generation


> Our neck of the woods recently had an earthquake ( the Nisqually about
three
> months ago ) and someone took the seismo data, converted it to a MIDI file
> and used that as the lead.  The then "orchestrated" some fill and it
sounds
> pretty interesting!




From tpaddock at seanet.com  Thu Aug 16 06:49:22 2001
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:49:22 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT - PCB oil danger?
Message-ID: <01C125D4.43FAF820@dialup-64.154.184.8.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net>

It's kind of maybe sort of nearly on-topic because I plan to 
use it as a modulation source. :) 
And you folks are the folks I know that I think 
are the most likely folks to know about this stuff.

I bought an old accelerometer that uses some kind of oil 
for (I assume) damping. It is a potentiometer with a weighted 
wiper mounted on leaf springs (I think). It's easy to 
open, but hard to see the guts. So I'm wondering about the oil. 
So I'm wondering about PCBs. Was PCB stuff used mostly for 
high voltage applications? Is this thing likely to have it? It has 
a sticker that says it was *OK* in 1962, so it is older than that.

So I'm wondering...

Should I stop opening it and just use it or
should I seal it in a plastic box and just use it or
should I evacuate my neighborhood and call the space-suit squad?

If the photo is still there, this is it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1618793124

Thanks,
 - -- -  Toby Paddock



From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 16 07:11:03 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:11:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
Message-ID: <F188Jl3Oh3Quct2Dskn000090d3@hotmail.com>

Well, I wanted to do bass, guitar, and my drum machine.
Do you know what kind of envelope follower the Mooger Fooger uses?  I was 
happy with the way it sounded (although it sometimes would freek out on a 
decaying chord and move up and down very erratically)

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>To: Tim Escobedo <tpe123 at yahoo.com>
>CC: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
>Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:49:06 -0400
>
>One very important point of "envelope follower" is...
>
>what do you want it to follow ?
>
>For guitar use, I prefer a peak detector circuit to a rectifier / filter
>circuit.
>The peak detect has a fast rise time and slow decay....
>
>The trade is between acceptable response time, and acceptable ripple
>in the output. For guitar and bass, by the time you reduce ripple
>(causes harmonic and IM distortion in units driven by the CV...) you have
>killed the response time.  Can't win...
>
>H^) harry
>
>
>
>Tim Escobedo wrote:
>
> > In-Reply-To: <F32a4k3z6QEy0Dll7fn000082dd at hotmail.com>
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > The easiest envelope follower circuits can probably be found in guitar
> > pedals. These generally involve tapping into the original signal,
> > amplifying it, rectifying it, and filtering it. The result is a DC
> > voltage proportional to the level of the original signal. It's
> > particularly effective with dynamic signals like those from electric
> > guitar. With a rather static signal, whose envelope characteristics are
> > more on/off, the envelope follower may be less effective unless
> > preceded by a EG/VCA, or some kind of "attack" control is built in to
> > the env follower.
> >
> > http://www.muzique.com/schem/quack.gif has a simple example of an
> > envelope follower (IC1a).
> >
> > --- Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi, I've been working away trying to build a little mono-synth but
> > > the next
> > > semester is nearly upon me so I'm revising my plans.  I've got a
> > > working
> > > filter I've built that I like a lot and I like the way all sorts of
> > > sounds
> > > work with it.  I am wanting to place the filter in a crybaby wah-wah
> > > housing
> > > and have the cutoff under foot control, I also want to have an
> > > envelope
> > > follower in there too with variable control voltage sent to the
> > > filter
> > > cutoff.  I'll place the knobs for input level, Envelope follower
> > > control and
> > > resonance on the top of the crybaby.  It should be lots of fun.
> > >
> > > I cannot find a schematic for an envelope follower.  Can anyone
> > > direct me to
> > > a good envelope follower schematic, preferably a simple one?  I'm
> > > using +/-
> > > 12v power. :-)
> > >
> > >          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
> > >        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Thu Aug 16 08:08:10 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:08:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
References: <F188Jl3Oh3Quct2Dskn000090d3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c12619$d464d3a0$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Why not make the low pass filter (integrator) adjustable? Why not make it
asymetrical and adjustable? One pot for attack response and one pot for
decay response. These controls do not need to be on the panel just on the
circuit board. Tune the pots until you are delighted with the tunes.


----- Original Message -----
From: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
To: <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Evelope Follower


> Well, I wanted to do bass, guitar, and my drum machine.
> Do you know what kind of envelope follower the Mooger Fooger uses?  I was
> happy with the way it sounded (although it sometimes would freek out on a
> decaying chord and move up and down very erratically)




From dh at synthstuff.com  Thu Aug 16 08:23:04 2001
From: dh at synthstuff.com (David Halliday)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:23:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Copy protection via errors
In-Reply-To: <000f01c125fe$2498d040$71765140@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c1261b$e89f21c0$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>

Very cool story Paul!!!

I was living in Boston back when arcade video games first became popular. I
am dating myself but this was back when people would line up to play PONG.
:-)

I was going to school and hanging out at the usual surplus places ( Delta,
Meshna's, B&F Enterprises, PolyPak's  ) and word was floated around asking
if people with electronics skills would be interested on working on a
hush-hush video game project.

I knew some people that got involved but didn't hear very much about it
until almost a year later when these wonderful brand-new surplus started
showing up on the market - brand new video  monitors, power supplies, TTL
chips, sockets, etc... Cheap!

Turns out that some goodfellows in the Boston area were wanting to get in on
this seemingly lucrative video game business so they bought one and had it
cloned.  Much to their surprise, it turns out that some of the chips in the
game they bought were not labeled correctly.  Nice job of protective
coloration.




-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Paul Schreiber
-> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:50 PM
-> To: synthDIY
-> Subject: [sdiy] Copy protection via errors
->
->
-> Probably the most famous case of this was TI versus Mostek
-> in the calculator
-> chip wars of 1972-1976.
->
-> Mostek was a bunch of ex-TI'ers that reversed
-> engineered/copied TI designs.
-> All they did was re-layout the
-> gates, so when you looked at a chip photo they appeared different.
->
-> Mostek was really undercutting TI in the basic calculator
-> chips, and when
-> the SR-51 was planned, they REALLY
-> didn't want this 'flagship' design ripped off. So, they
-> added a little set
-> of about 60 random logic gates, spread out
-> all over the chip.
->
-> Of course, Mostek copied it, and TI sued.
->
-> In court, Mostek spent hours and hours pointing out to the
-> judge & jury how
-> 'different' the 2 chips were. Why,
-> they were different sizes, and see, they LOOKED different!
-> How could they be
-> the same?
->
-> The TI laywer stood up, pulled out a prototype and said,
-> "Your honor and
-> ladies and gentlemen of the jury. TI engineers added
-> undocumented circuitry
-> to this chip. Only 4 people know about this. The circuitry
-> is only activated
-> at power up when 3 certain keys are pressed when the
-> calculator is switched
-> on. The circuitry spells a certain message
-> in the display, when the calculator is held upside down. We
-> would like to
-> demonstrate!"
->
-> Mostek layers immediately jumped up and asked for a recess.
-> They settled out
-> of court, and 1 year later Mostek was sold to United
-> Technologies, out of
-> the calculator chip business forever.
->
-> Oh, the message in the display: "U ALL SUC".
->
-> Paul S.
->
->
->
->
->



From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Thu Aug 16 08:49:48 2001
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:49:48 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] my mc202 eats batteries...
References: <002e01c125bd$f87ef100$fa59fc3e@st>
Message-ID: <3B7B6D0C.922B38B5@consol.de>

Hi steve,

did you compare the current between power supply and the MC202 with the current
that the batteries have to provide?

Florian

BTW: please don't use HTML for the messages
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de


From chris.crosskey at vicon.com  Thu Aug 16 09:25:59 2001
From: chris.crosskey at vicon.com (Chris Crosskey)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:25:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
Message-ID: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D02085605611FA@FILESERV>

You really really don't want to know....It's a royal pain in the ass to get
test that covers electromagnetic emmissions and immunity to them.....We've
got a development rig at work to cut down on the amount of time and money we
have to spend on accedited test facilities to get the certificates and we
still get to spend man-weeksd  per year babysitting the damn things in test
houses ....

chrisc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benjamin M. Woenig [mailto:budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au]
> Sent: 16 August 2001 01:16
> To: Paul Maddox; grichter at asapnet.net;
> owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; Magnus Danielson
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
> 
> 
> What's involved with CE approval?
> 
> ~ben
> 
> > I agree..
> > Im trying to start selling my monowave, but theres a VERY 
> steep learning
> > curve involved in things such as case design.
> > CE approval, silk screening, PCB design and manufacturing...
> > 
> > Its a great learning experience, but man its hard work..
> > 
> > Paul
> 
> 

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in
error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the
information in any way, and notify me immediately.


From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Thu Aug 16 09:52:50 2001
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Christian)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:52:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
References: <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com>

I'm making a VCO using the CA3086 at the moment.
Should I use the two transistors to the left of the chip which already
share a common emitter?

Also, Farnell Electonics supplier here in the UK has discontinued the
range of 1K Tempco resistors but they will supply a 1K Thermistor
(code 679331) in its place which I am going to try to use. Anyone any
thoughts or things to add?

Christian.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:05:04 +0200, you wrote:

>At 17:35 15.08.01 -0400, Dr Strangelove wrote:
>>Well, the 3086 is used in the Oberheim SEM.  Their advertisements from the 
>>time claim that tuning stability was better than ALL the competition.  Maybe 
>>people are not using the 3086 because they're just *too* good. (:-)
>
>Well, I think that is actually due to the circuit topology. Apart from
>using a tempco resistor for temperature compensation, its reference current
>is chosen so that the temperature dependancy is minimal. (Arround the
>reference current the impact of drift is lower than at very low or high
>frequencies.) Also the SEM has a Rbe correction, which renders the not too
>great transistors in an 3086 or 3046 in a respectably precise expo convertor.
>
>Cheers,
> Ren?



From steven_thomas at ntlworld.com  Thu Aug 16 10:14:39 2001
From: steven_thomas at ntlworld.com (steven_thomas)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:14:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] VCS3 EG
References: <3.0.5.32.20010815225414.00eb1e20@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <000501c125cc$5488eba0$b33d073e@c7i1i9>
Message-ID: <001701c1262b$93372b00$8d58fc3e@st>

Hi,
     I am  in the process of building a synthi A clone. So far I have build
3 VCO's succesfully..haven't tried the EG yet. I have the Hinton
schematics..and I can definitely say there are several errors in the VCO
diagrams  that would  'scupper' your project (these are mix ups between npn
and pnp transistors). These are apparent only when you
compare them with original schemos in the synthi service manual. Now I am
working  from the original schemos, just adding the  mods as I go along.
Personally I would tread carefully following the hinton schemos...

cheers
steveT


Synth-DIY pages:-
http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: RichR <rrowley at btinternet.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 9:53 PM
Subject: [sdiy] VCS3 EG


> Hi
> Has anyone successfully built the VCS3 envelope shaper from the schematic
> posted on the Hinton instruments website.I've just read in the archives
that
> these diagrams include deliberate errors!???
> tia
> Rich
>



From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Aug 16 08:27:51 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:27:51
Subject: [sdiy] looking for a diy synth useful for lead sounds
Message-ID: <200108161529.f7GFTeZ14753@smtp008.mailsrvcs.net>

I have two FatMan synths and I have used them for leads
(melodic), but quite honestly, I think of the stock FatMan
as more of a bass synth.  IMHO the main reason for this
is just that the synth is in a standard, but simple 
configuration.  2 VCOs, 2 EGs and 1 VCF.  For more interesting
and odd sounds, I'd think a noise source is necessary as well as
LFOs and modulation inputs for everything.  A ring modulator
and a waveshaper would be good.  The FatMan can be modified to 
support all this, but that would increase the total cost of the 
project.  BTW, the FatMan is not polyphonic.  It would be
beneficial to think about the kinds of sounds you like and
price a modular kit (there are several) that can produce them.
A modular is also good from a 'go slow' perspective.  You can
start making music with a small number of modules and build
more as you can afford them.

cacofone <pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com> wrote:
>I'm looking to build a DIY synthesizer that is preferably polyphonic, and 
>is an exceptional source for leads. Does anyone recommend any specific kits 
>for this? I considered the FatMan because of it's price, but I don't really 
>think it's geared towards the lead sounds I'm trying to find.
>
>Joshua
>
>
>Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
>http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
>http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
>http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.

- If children are unable to read by the 4th grade, 
  then one must ask:  What are the teachers doing?

- Good parenting cannot be legislated.

- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

- If a public school system is required by law, then it's
  accountability must also be mandated and enforced by law.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From alex at xatomic.ch  Thu Aug 16 12:09:27 2001
From: alex at xatomic.ch (Alex)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:09:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
In-Reply-To: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D02085605611FA@FILESERV>
Message-ID: <000501c1263b$8890c700$2201a8c0@artist>

Hello,


I'm from Switzerland (and back to the list, after a one-year-brake).
Currently I'm busy with the CE-approval and such stuff, too.
I'm going to start a company which builds high quality audio-electronic
devices for professional studio use. Like compressors, a tube
multiband-compressor,
custom designs and so on.
In  Europe you need the CE-approval to sell your equipment.
So I did some research about the necessary things you've to do, in order
you're allowed
to put a "CE" sign on your gear.
Lukily in the area of low voltage stuff (73/23/EWG) and EMC (don't know the
document number
right now) you don't have to test your equipment by a such named "notified
body" in most cases.
The manufacturer is allowed to do the tests himself.
I once asked what a test for the EN60065 norm (Security measures in audio
and video
an similar electronic apparatus), done by a such notified body, would cost.
It'll cost about 4000US$.
So then there comes the European Community conformity declaration you've to
write.
Further you've to write detailed technical documents about your device and
so on.
When you've done all this, you're allowed to put the "CE" sign on the back
of your
devices.
But all this you've to do for every new piece of equipment you want to sell.
And for a one man buissines this needs a lot of time.
So briefly, the CE-approval is a self-declaration of the manufacturer. And
as a
manufacturer you're fully responsible for your products, so if you put the
"CE" sign on your stuff but it doesn't meet the lowest security standards
defined in the relevant guidelines (e.g. 73/23/EWG), you could be sued and
finally fined.


Alex


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Chris Crosskey
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:26 AM
> To: 'synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl'
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
>
>
> You really really don't want to know....It's a royal pain in the
> ass to get
> test that covers electromagnetic emmissions and immunity to them.....We've
> got a development rig at work to cut down on the amount of time
> and money we
> have to spend on accedited test facilities to get the certificates and we
> still get to spend man-weeksd  per year babysitting the damn
> things in test
> houses ....
>
> chrisc
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Benjamin M. Woenig [mailto:budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au]
> > Sent: 16 August 2001 01:16
> > To: Paul Maddox; grichter at asapnet.net;
> > owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; Magnus Danielson
> > Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
> >
> >
> > What's involved with CE approval?
> >
> > ~ben
> >
> > > I agree..
> > > Im trying to start selling my monowave, but theres a VERY
> > steep learning
> > > curve involved in things such as case design.
> > > CE approval, silk screening, PCB design and manufacturing...
> > >
> > > Its a great learning experience, but man its hard work..
> > >
> > > Paul
> >
> >
>
> This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have
> received it in
> error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the
> information in any way, and notify me immediately.
>



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Thu Aug 16 12:20:11 2001
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:20:11 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
In-Reply-To: <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com>
References: <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com>
 <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 08:52 16.08.01 +0100, you wrote:
>I'm making a VCO using the CA3086 at the moment.
>Should I use the two transistors to the left of the chip which already
>share a common emitter?

Yes, that way you can put in a 3046 later and have the transistors matched.

>Also, Farnell Electonics supplier here in the UK has discontinued the
>range of 1K Tempco resistors but they will supply a 1K Thermistor
>(code 679331) in its place which I am going to try to use. Anyone any
>thoughts or things to add?

I don't know that part, but thermistor sounds like negative temperature
coefficient. If so then you will need to put it in the upper leg of the
voltage divider. (An example of how to do that is on my homepage -> click
"whats that exp and tempco stuff".)

Cheers,
 Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Thu Aug 16 13:02:44 2001
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 07:02:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Linear vs. Exponential control of VCA's
In-Reply-To: <3B7BB963.36D97B6F@home.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108160640390.32468-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Scott Bernardi wrote:

> I guess my question is, what are people using in their systems? What
> do some of the old classic systems (Moog, ARP, OB, etc.) use? Has
> anybody ever done any comparisons?

  The Yamaha CS line uses a VCA that has both linear and exponential CV
inputs.  In nearly all cases the expo input is used for an offset
trimmer/CV reject trimmer.  The linear inputs are attached to the EG
outputs, panel controls (for things like aftertouch VCO mod depth, etc.),
touch response detectors, and so on.  I would love to make a SMT micro-PCB
equivalent of the IG00151 at some point.  Yamaha's precis on the chip is
not very informative, but from what I can tell it is just an OTA with a
simple linear V/I and simple expo V/I summed together to the Iabc of the
OTA.

Crow

/**/



From nss at hevanet.com  Thu Aug 16 13:21:41 2001
From: nss at hevanet.com (nss at hevanet.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 04:21:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT: TTL logic, trains and interference
References: <3.0.5.32.20010815225414.00eb1e20@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <000501c125cc$5488eba0$b33d073e@c7i1i9>
Message-ID: <3B7BACC5.1F83@hevanet.com>

Sorry for the ot post, but I think this is my best bet for advice! And
it is DIY! And I know there are train freaks on the list...

anyway, I have an old railway motorcar
(pictures: http://www.hevanet.com/eths/railcar/railtext.htm) 
which I made a speedometer and odometer for. The odometer is made from
ttl ls chips and runs off a hall effect sensor which picks up the
gearteeth on the drive axle. The car has an automobile style electrical
system.

The problem is, the wire to the sensor pick up stray signals from the
ignition system. They are not nessisarily false triggers, it just kinda
drives some of the chips nuts. It is not from the power supply, as it
still does it when plugged into a bench supply. Picks it right out of
the air(as far as I can tell). Resistor plug wire and a cap on the coil
helped loads, but it needs a little more.

Any ideas???

Would a ferrite bead/ring be somthing that would help out here? I
suspect it is very high freq stuff...

Thanks for reading and any suggestions!

you never know, might want to use that synth in your car someday...

-Al Fisher



From sbernardi at home.net  Thu Aug 16 14:15:31 2001
From: sbernardi at home.net (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 05:15:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Linear vs. Exponential control of VCA's
References: <OF93CA8EDA.1C170515-ONC1256AAA.002B4FB3@idg.se>
Message-ID: <3B7BB963.36D97B6F@home.net>

The decay and release curves are decaying exponentials (i.e., exponential
approach to zero) while the attack is an exponential that approaches a
non-zero value. Both are "natural" responses. Musical instruments that are
percussive in nature (struck or plucked strings, drums) will have a decaying
exponential amplitude envelope.  If you think of it, the response of an RC
filter to a step function is a natural one too, and that's basically what an
envelope generator is (AR).
I'm thinking a linear ramp generator driving an exponential VCA is the same as
an exponential EG driving a linear VCA.
I guess my question is, what are people using in their systems? What do some
of the old classic systems (Moog, ARP, OB, etc.) use? Has anybody ever done
any comparisons?

jorgen.bergfors at idg.se wrote:

> >VCA's are usually controlled by envelope generators which already
> >output exponential waveforms, so if you input these into an exponential
> >control input, aren't you getting a "double" exponential response?
>
> Not really. The output curve of a typical envelope generator is
> exponential, that's true.
> But the exponential curve is "upside down" in the decay and release phase.
> I suppose the best thing would be a linear envelope generator and
> exponential VCAs. Or isn't it?
>
> /Jorgen

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at home.net




From robh at biols.susx.ac.uk  Thu Aug 16 14:23:14 2001
From: robh at biols.susx.ac.uk (Rob Hukin)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:23:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] cem3360 trade...?
Message-ID: <a05100302b7a16b16dda6@[139.184.162.160]>

Anyone have any 3360's (I need at least one) that they are willing to 
trade for any of the following...

3310
3320
3340
3396 (IIRC)

rob.


From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Aug 16 14:59:41 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:59:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
References: <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c12654$b6b7ed20$7e0287d9@default>

>Also, Farnell Electonics supplier here in the UK has discontinued the
range of 1K Tempco resistors.

Tony falls over with a near heart attack.... the thought of making
heated expo pairs a nightmare scenario.

Recovers and rings Farnell and they have 1000 of them right now, but
with a 21 week lead time, they may run out if somebody buys too many of
them at once. But they did reassure me they have no plans to extinguish
this one.

Phew.

1K PTC 3000ppm/K pt no: 732-278

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan







From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Thu Aug 16 16:50:24 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:50:24 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Datasheet Requests?
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010816105024.0079da70@hoohahrecords.com>

Hi List,

As some of you know, I have a collection of datasheets on my webpage...
While checking my server stats, I can see it's one of the most popular
sections of my site.

The Datasheet Archive is at:
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/datasheets/index.html

So, in order to help the rest of the SDIY community, I'm taking requests
for datasheets.  If there's any common components that are useful for SDIY
that you'd like added, please send me an email off-list.  I have a gigabyte
of server storage, so I figured this would be a good way to help everyone out.

The only components I'd rather *not* add are CEMs (since they're already
available at Synthesis Technology's site).

Dave Magnuson


Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From grichter at asapnet.net  Thu Aug 16 17:00:24 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:00:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
In-Reply-To: <000501c1263b$8890c700$2201a8c0@artist>
Message-ID: <B7A14A38.219B2%grichter@asapnet.net>

Unfortunate for our EU DIY friends.

As I understand it, it is the responsibility of the consumer not to buy
non-CE marked items. That is, you can still sell to the EU with a non-CE
marked item, but they are not supposed to buy it.

This only works for small volumes of course, but otherwise none of the small
companies could sell to the EU at all.


> manufacturer you're fully responsible for your products, so if you put the
> "CE" sign on your stuff but it doesn't meet the lowest security standards
> defined in the relevant guidelines (e.g. 73/23/EWG), you could be sued and
> finally fined.
> 
> 
> Alex
> 




From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Thu Aug 16 17:04:19 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:04:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] looking for a diy synth useful for lead sounds
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010816095933.00ad3d90@mailhub.verio.net>

I'm looking to build a DIY synthesizer that is preferably polyphonic, and 
is an exceptional source for leads. Does anyone recommend any specific kits 
for this? I considered the FatMan because of it's price, but I don't really 
think it's geared towards the lead sounds I'm trying to find.

Joshua


Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From grichter at asapnet.net  Thu Aug 16 17:12:11 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:12:11 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Linear vs. Exponential control of VCA's
In-Reply-To: <3B7BB963.36D97B6F@home.net>
Message-ID: <B7A14CFA.219B3%grichter@asapnet.net>

Moogs and ARPs have exponential (RC time constant) envelope generators with
linear VCAs.

Buchla developed the linear envelope as a truly general controller. An
exponential envelope does not work correctly for panning, as an example.

The East Coast school (Moog, ARP), which did not view envelopes as general
controllers, used exponential envelopes.

The West Coast school (Buchla, Serge) which consider an envelope to be a
fully general controller, use linear envelopes.

It is relatively easy to bend a linear envelope to exponential by feedback.
It is not as easy to straighten out an exponential envelope by feedback.


> I'm thinking a linear ramp generator driving an exponential VCA is the same as
> an exponential EG driving a linear VCA.
> I guess my question is, what are people using in their systems? What do some
> of the old classic systems (Moog, ARP, OB, etc.) use? Has anybody ever done
> any comparisons?
> 
> jorgen.bergfors at idg.se wrote:
> 




From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Thu Aug 16 17:59:26 2001
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:59:26 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] free to a good home....
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010816085926.0078578c@popserv.ucop.edu>

I've been doing some more cleaning;  came across some ICs from the good old
days that I'll not be needing.

2 ea SN76477
2 ea XR2209




From jhaible at t-online.de  Thu Aug 16 18:01:19 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jhaible at t-online.de)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:01:19 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] Linear vs. Exponential control of VCA's
Message-ID: <997977393.3b7bed31e0eda@webmail.t-online.de>


>   The Yamaha CS line uses a VCA that has both linear and 
> exponential CV 
> inputs.  In nearly all cases the expo input is used for 
> an offset 
> trimmer/CV reject trimmer.  The linear inputs are 
> attached to the EG 
> outputs, panel controls (for things like aftertouch VCO 
> mod depth, etc.), 
> touch response detectors, and so on.  I would love to 
> make a SMT micro-PCB 
> equivalent of the IG00151 at some point.  Yamaha's precis 
> on the chip is 
> not very informative, but from what I can tell it is just 
> an OTA with a 
> simple linear V/I and simple expo V/I summed together to 
> the Iabc of the 
> OTA.

I would have thought it has the usual expo converter with
a (linear) reference current input. Then the linear input
would be a summing node for several linear CVs, and the
expo input would be used for (unity or whatever) *gain* 
adjustment rather than offset or CV reject.

JH.


From schwich at qwest.net  Thu Aug 16 18:42:23 2001
From: schwich at qwest.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:42:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
In-Reply-To: <B7A14A38.219B2%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <OJEHIEGGNPIJDNGJANPAIEECCCAA.schwich@qwest.net>

CE is a tighter spec than FCC B (I think it's B for consumer stuff) testing.
Usually people in the US get CE certification which will be good enough and
say it's FCC certified. I may be wrong but if I remember right CE also
requires static testing (zap it with 20000 volts, smell the ozone, and hope
it still works) and FCC doesn't.

I had to help get cerification on some PC sound cards in the US. Anything
that has real digital in it can be considerably harder than straight analog
(low freq stuff < 10 mHz). Boy put a card in a PC with connectors sticking
out the back and things get really bad. You can spend thoushands of dollars
just getting a PC to pass with nothing in it for your test unit. The thing
is most of the stuff you get that is CE/FCC certified probably wouldn't pass
a test if you tested it. To get certification you have to have 1 unit pass
the test. In a lot of cases it was probably hand build, tweaked and the PCB
in production is different that what was tested.

Another issue is with UL in the US (forget what the Euro equivalent is). A
lot of products would probably never make it to market if they didn't use
wall warts or pre-made power supplies. The power supply people do the
testing and can distribute the cost over hundreds of thoushands of units.
The guy that is going to make something that sells small quanities wouldn't
be able to handle the PS design and cost of testing and then sell the
product at a profit.

Jay



From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Thu Aug 16 18:48:24 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:48:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] neat info for generating square/pseudo-sine/triangel
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010816114035.06cdc1b0@mailhub.verio.net>

Found this kit:

No. 80-230 OpAMP Function Generator
A very low cost and simple circuit to generate square, pseudo-sinewave and 
triangular waveforms in the Audio frequency range. Uses a quad opamp LM348. 
Good educational kit.

at http://www.hobbyelectronics.com/cuesedu.html



Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Thu Aug 16 18:53:38 2001
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:53:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] free stuff is GONE!
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010816095338.0073d790@popserv.ucop.edu>

Yow, such a response...
who would have imagined all these HUNGRY people
on these lists?

Every thing has gone.

Thanks for your responses, folks.


From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Thu Aug 16 19:01:36 2001
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Christian)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:01:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone with a keyboard control circuit please
Message-ID: <kounntk9vjeer228pv57jskqcqs1kg84bl@4ax.com>

Hi all

I am looking for a circuit that goes between the Keyboard (mine will
be a typical mono synth resistor chain) and the VCO(s).
In particular, a circuit that gives Gate and CV output and has a Glide
facility.
I could probably design one, but would like to see what others have
come up with.

Many thanks
Christian.



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Thu Aug 16 19:06:21 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:06:21 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
References: <OJEHIEGGNPIJDNGJANPAIEECCCAA.schwich@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c12675$c6cc6e40$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

I think VDE is the German UL equivalent but more severe. VDE requires mains
wiring to be an a separated loom from working wiring for example.



----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Schwichtenberg <schwich at qwest.net>
To: Synth-DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:42 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time


> CE is a tighter spec than FCC B (I think it's B for consumer stuff)
testing.
> Usually people in the US get CE certification which will be good enough
and
> say it's FCC certified. I may be wrong but if I remember right CE also
> requires static testing (zap it with 20000 volts, smell the ozone, and
hope
> it still works) and FCC doesn't.
>
> I had to help get cerification on some PC sound cards in the US. Anything
> that has real digital in it can be considerably harder than straight
analog
> (low freq stuff < 10 mHz). Boy put a card in a PC with connectors sticking
> out the back and things get really bad. You can spend thoushands of
dollars
> just getting a PC to pass with nothing in it for your test unit. The thing
> is most of the stuff you get that is CE/FCC certified probably wouldn't
pass
> a test if you tested it. To get certification you have to have 1 unit pass
> the test. In a lot of cases it was probably hand build, tweaked and the
PCB
> in production is different that what was tested.
>
> Another issue is with UL in the US (forget what the Euro equivalent is). A
> lot of products would probably never make it to market if they didn't use
> wall warts or pre-made power supplies. The power supply people do the
> testing and can distribute the cost over hundreds of thoushands of units.
> The guy that is going to make something that sells small quanities
wouldn't
> be able to handle the PS design and cost of testing and then sell the
> product at a profit.
>
> Jay
>
>



From synth1 at airmail.net  Thu Aug 16 19:17:43 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:17:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Web contest
Message-ID: <001a01c12677$5cd34d40$71765140@speakeasy.net>

<<Sorry for the BW, but I'm now taking this off-line>>

For additional information (more prizes!) go to:

www.synthtech.com/contest

Paul S.




From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Thu Aug 16 19:28:43 2001
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Christian)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:28:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
References: <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:20:11 +0200, Rene wrote:

>>I'm making a VCO using the CA3086 at the moment.
>>Should I use the two transistors to the left of the chip which already
>>share a common emitter?

>Yes, that way you can put in a 3046 later and have the transistors matched.

Mmmmmmm - I can't get a 3046 from anywhere - That's why I got the
3086's instead. I admit that I thought they had transistors that were
matching, but looking at the online datasheets indeed they are not.

I managed to get quite a few (10) 3086's and I shall test the
transistors to attempt to get the best match. When all said and done,
if the VCO works and is stable then it doesn't matter what you use.
If she drifts like a ship lost at sea then I shall think again.

Another question. Anyone doing anything fancy with Pin 13 (substrate)?
I am currently tying all spare transistor bases and emitters to ground
(which includes that pin).

>>Also, Farnell Electonics supplier here in the UK has discontinued the
>>range of 1K Tempco resistors but they will supply a 1K Thermistor
>>(code 679331) in its place which I am going to try to use. Anyone any
>>thoughts or things to add?

>I don't know that part, but thermistor sounds like negative temperature
>coefficient. If so then you will need to put it in the upper leg of the
>voltage divider. (An example of how to do that is on my homepage -> click
>"whats that exp and tempco stuff".)

I concur - Thanks Rene.

Incidentally, the Tempco resistor I was asking Farnell for was code
679331. This has been discontinued, but an identicle resistor (1K
3000ppm/degree C) is available as code 732278 (Thanks Tony).
I'll shelve my NTC thermistors for another day.

Thanks
Christian.



From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Thu Aug 16 19:32:18 2001
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Christian)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:32:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone with a keyboard control circuit please
Message-ID: <7q0ont4d0s6uc20ejrb6540fjl82eh0191@4ax.com>

Hi all

I am looking for a circuit that goes between the Keyboard (mine will
be a typical mono synth resistor chain) and the VCO(s).
In particular, a circuit that gives Gate and CV output and has a Glide
facility.
I could probably design one, but would like to see what others have
come up with.

Many thanks
Christian.



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Thu Aug 16 19:34:12 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:34:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT: TTL logic, trains and interference
References: <3.0.5.32.20010815225414.00eb1e20@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <000501c125cc$5488eba0$b33d073e@c7i1i9> <3B7BACC5.1F83@hevanet.com>
Message-ID: <001101c12679$abefc3c0$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Wow!

What a cool hobby. I have always been facinated by trains. Where I grew up
(Walnut Creek, CA) the Sacramento Northern Line ran past my back yard. The
train was electric as the Milwaukee was.

I have a great collection of photos of 700 which lives in Portland, OR.

I was a member of the Sumpter Valley Railroad for a while. I have great
photos from there too.

I will build a web site and post the photos.

How do you get permission to use the right of way?

Where are the motorcars available?

Is this a club?

Fill me in.

Have you ever seen the three wheel cars? They look alot like a motocycle
with a side car.

It is bad news to run sensors directly into TTL without some signal
conditioning. There are TTL ICs that have Schmitt-trigger inputs such as
74??14. The schmitt-trigger will help with false triggering. You might want
to add a little low pass filtering, a resistor and capacitor, to the input
as well. The ultimate would be to use a differential input. This is probably
more than necessary for you.

Can you believe that several Super Ferries were built and put into service
in Puget Sound (Seattle) that had microprocessor controllers (6809 in one of
them) with no input conditioning or buffering. There were long lines
(hundres of feet) directly into the TTL. The system failed was immediately
ripped out.


----- Original Message -----
From: <nss at hevanet.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:21 AM
Subject: [sdiy] OT: TTL logic, trains and interference


> Sorry for the ot post, but I think this is my best bet for advice! And
> it is DIY! And I know there are train freaks on the list...
>
> anyway, I have an old railway motorcar
> (pictures: http://www.hevanet.com/eths/railcar/railtext.htm)
> which I made a speedometer and odometer for. The odometer is made from
> ttl ls chips and runs off a hall effect sensor which picks up the
> gearteeth on the drive axle. The car has an automobile style electrical
> system.
>
> The problem is, the wire to the sensor pick up stray signals from the
> ignition system. They are not nessisarily false triggers, it just kinda
> drives some of the chips nuts. It is not from the power supply, as it
> still does it when plugged into a bench supply. Picks it right out of
> the air(as far as I can tell). Resistor plug wire and a cap on the coil
> helped loads, but it needs a little more.
>
> Any ideas???
>
> Would a ferrite bead/ring be somthing that would help out here? I
> suspect it is very high freq stuff...
>
> Thanks for reading and any suggestions!
>
> you never know, might want to use that synth in your car someday...
>
> -Al Fisher
>



From massann at tin.it  Thu Aug 16 19:34:33 2001
From: massann at tin.it (max)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:34:33 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <MWMail.alntmgnk@host.none>

unsubscribe



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu Aug 16 20:05:58 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:05:58 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone with a keyboard control circuit please
References: <kounntk9vjeer228pv57jskqcqs1kg84bl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c1267e$242abd00$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

I have a 3x4" pcb that can cover 1-6 octaves. Includes a saw/tri/ramp-pulse/
sq/spike variable wave-width lfo, a vca that can be used for voltage controlled 
modulation, key to gate generator and variable glide. It can be used with any 1 
switch per key controller. 2 switch controllers too, just don't use one set of 
switches...;-) I have 10 of these boards left at $10.00 each, instructions are 
included. requires +/-12 or +/-15VDC

$6.00 insurance/priority USA...email efmorders at hotmail.com 

Tom



> Hi all
> 
> I am looking for a circuit that goes between the Keyboard (mine will
> be a typical mono synth resistor chain) and the VCO(s).
> In particular, a circuit that gives Gate and CV output and has a Glide
> facility.
> I could probably design one, but would like to see what others have
> come up with.
> 
> Many thanks
> Christian.
> 



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Thu Aug 16 20:37:36 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:37:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: CE approval, was MOTM over time
References: <B7A04054.2196C%grichter@asapnet.net> <011d01c125d3$c98ef140$d666073e@paul> <008e01c125e8$a3303350$0c00a8c0@budweiser>
Message-ID: <00bf01c12684$a9d2fd40$1353073e@paul>

 Ben

> What's involved with CE approval?

>From what I understand , you need to prove that it wont interfere with other
electrical equipment.
This means showing that your inputs are shielded and that no RFI will get
out of the box...

Usually a steel case with as few hole as possible and ferrite beads on
inputs/outputs will do it.
(so Ive been told)

Paul
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Thu Aug 16 20:51:02 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:51:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
References: <OJEHIEGGNPIJDNGJANPAIEECCCAA.schwich@qwest.net>
Message-ID: <00c001c12684$aa827720$1353073e@paul>

Jay,

> I had to help get cerification on some PC sound cards in the US. Anything
> that has real digital in it can be considerably harder than straight
analog
> (low freq stuff < 10 mHz).

This is good news, I only have two processors running at 12Mhz in my
monowave...
Though future designs will be faster and bigger :-(

> To get certification you have to have 1 unit pass
> the test. In a lot of cases it was probably hand build, tweaked and the
PCB
> in production is different that what was tested.

this *IS* good news, but I guess you still have to pay for EACH test..

> Another issue is with UL in the US (forget what the Euro equivalent is). A
> lot of products would probably never make it to market if they didn't use
> wall warts or pre-made power supplies. The power supply people do the
> testing and can distribute the cost over hundreds of thoushands of units.
> The guy that is going to make something that sells small quanities
wouldn't
> be able to handle the PS design and cost of testing and then sell the
> product at a profit.

Ive bought PSUs that already conform to US and EU standards so I can avoid
this headache aswell.
They are also auto sensing :-)

Paul
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com





From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Aug 16 21:37:53 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:37:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
References: <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>



Christian wrote:

>
> I managed to get quite a few (10) 3086's and I shall test the
> transistors to attempt to get the best match. When all said and done,
> if the VCO works and is stable then it doesn't matter what you use.
> If she drifts like a ship lost at sea then I shall think again.
>

    The 3086 is exactly the same die...just not tested for matching.  I am
willing to be you will find they match quite well.

>
> Another question. Anyone doing anything fancy with Pin 13 (substrate)?
> I am currently tying all spare transistor bases and emitters to ground
> (which includes that pin).
>

    Pin 13 MUST go to the lowest DC potential that any of the pins on the CA3046
will see.  The transistors are isolated with basically a reversed biased diode
junction.  You also have to remember that the breakdown voltage of this part is
only 20 volts, so choose wisely, although, I have stretched this and have run
them at 27.5 volts.  What I really need to do myself is set up a little rig to
test the breakdown voltage....

>
>
> Thanks
> Christian.

    -Jim




From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu Aug 16 22:00:51 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:00:51 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Linear vs. Exponential control of VCA's
References: <OF93CA8EDA.1C170515-ONC1256AAA.002B4FB3@idg.se> <3B7BB963.36D97B6F@home.net>
Message-ID: <01aa01c1268e$2767a540$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Maybe I am off but;
Wouldn't a expo VCA driven with a linear EG give a "unnatural" attack curve?

The "resulting" attack of  the combination exponential EG and linear VCA
first changes rapidly and then slower as it reaches the top.
While a linear EG driving a expo VCA would give a slow start and then rush
to the maximum.
Also the two combinations are not interchangeable.

Theo

From: Scott Bernardi <sbernardi at home.net>

> The decay and release curves are decaying exponentials (i.e., exponential
> approach to zero) while the attack is an exponential that approaches a
> non-zero value. Both are "natural" responses. Musical instruments that are
> percussive in nature (struck or plucked strings, drums) will have a
decaying
> exponential amplitude envelope.  If you think of it, the response of an RC
> filter to a step function is a natural one too, and that's basically what
an
> envelope generator is (AR).
> I'm thinking a linear ramp generator driving an exponential VCA is the
same as
> an exponential EG driving a linear VCA.
> I guess my question is, what are people using in their systems? What do
some
> of the old classic systems (Moog, ARP, OB, etc.) use? Has anybody ever
done
> any comparisons?
>




From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Thu Aug 16 22:25:07 2001
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:25:07 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
References: <B79ED2BA.21909%grichter@asapnet.net> <000101c1267c$1ce2a460$66c5893e@default>
Message-ID: <3B7C2C23.E57DB7A7@eunet.yu>


> You could check out the EML300 too.  I think this
> must have been the first calculator style controller
> for synths (unless, of course, you know different).
> 
> I haven't seen a schematic, but there are pics on
> the usual websites (music machines etc)
> 

Go to yahoogroups and join (if you have yahoo ID)
the emlsynth group - you'll find eml 200 & 300
schemos in the files section...



marjan :(


From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Thu Aug 16 22:50:49 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:50:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT: TTL logic, trains and interference
Message-ID: <002401c12695$22389280$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>


 Wow!

 What a cool hobby. I have always been facinated by trains. Where I grew up
(Walnut Creek, CA) the Sacramento Northern Line ran past my back yard. The
train was electric as the Milwaukee was.

 I have a great collection of photos of 700 which lives in Portland, OR.

 I was a member of the Sumpter Valley Railroad for a while. I have great
photos from there too.

 I will build a web site and post the photos.

 How do you get permission to use the right of way?

 Where are the motorcars available?

 Is this a club?

 Fill me in.

 Have you ever seen the three wheel cars? They look alot like a motocycle
with a side car.

 It is bad news to run sensors directly into TTL without some signal
conditioning. There are TTL ICs that have Schmitt-trigger inputs such as
74??14. The schmitt-trigger will help with false triggering. You might want
to add a little low pass filtering, a resistor and capacitor, to the input
as well. The ultimate would be to use a differential input or optical
isolation. This is probably
more than necessary for you.

 Can you believe that several Super Ferries were built and put into service
in Puget Sound (Seattle) that had microprocessor controllers (6809 in one of
them) with no input conditioning or buffering. There were long lines
(hundres of feet) directly into the TTL. The system failed was immediately
ripped out.
 ----- Original Message -----
> From: <nss at hevanet.com>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:21 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] OT: TTL logic, trains and interference
>
>
> > Sorry for the ot post, but I think this is my best bet for advice! And
> > it is DIY! And I know there are train freaks on the list...
> >
> > anyway, I have an old railway motorcar
> > (pictures: http://www.hevanet.com/eths/railcar/railtext.htm)
> > which I made a speedometer and odometer for. The odometer is made from
> > ttl ls chips and runs off a hall effect sensor which picks up the
> > gearteeth on the drive axle. The car has an automobile style electrical
> > system.
> >
> > The problem is, the wire to the sensor pick up stray signals from the
> > ignition system. They are not nessisarily false triggers, it just kinda
> > drives some of the chips nuts. It is not from the power supply, as it
> > still does it when plugged into a bench supply. Picks it right out of
> > the air(as far as I can tell). Resistor plug wire and a cap on the coil
> > helped loads, but it needs a little more.
> >
> > Any ideas???
> >
> > Would a ferrite bead/ring be somthing that would help out here? I
> > suspect it is very high freq stuff...
> >
> > Thanks for reading and any suggestions!
> >
> > you never know, might want to use that synth in your car someday...
> >
> > -Al Fisher
> >
>



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu Aug 16 22:57:47 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:57:47 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone with a keyboard control circuit please
References: <kounntk9vjeer228pv57jskqcqs1kg84bl@4ax.com> <001f01c1267e$242abd00$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c12696$20230380$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>


Here is a link to the NFS. It uses a keyboard controller much like the
one I sell.. JIC you would rather DIY one....;-)
http://people.atl.mediaone.net/efm3/nfs_b.pdf

Tom



> I have a 3x4" pcb that can cover 1-6 octaves. Includes a saw/tri/ramp-pulse/
> sq/spike variable wave-width lfo, a vca that can be used for voltage controlled 
> modulation, key to gate generator and variable glide. It can be used with any 1 
> switch per key controller. 2 switch controllers too, just don't use one set of 
> switches...;-) I have 10 of these boards left at $10.00 each, instructions are 
> included. requires +/-12 or +/-15VDC
> 
> $6.00 insurance/priority USA...email efmorders at hotmail.com 
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> > Hi all
> > 
> > I am looking for a circuit that goes between the Keyboard (mine will
> > be a typical mono synth resistor chain) and the VCO(s).
> > In particular, a circuit that gives Gate and CV output and has a Glide
> > facility.
> > I could probably design one, but would like to see what others have
> > come up with.
> > 
> > Many thanks
> > Christian.
> > 
> 



From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Thu Aug 16 23:20:18 2001
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Christian)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:20:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
In-Reply-To: <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
References: <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com> <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <f1eontoru3uvf35c0f7bkheufibv3cmper@4ax.com>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:37:53 -0700, you wrote:

>> Another question. Anyone doing anything fancy with Pin 13 (substrate)?
>> I am currently tying all spare transistor bases and emitters to ground
>> (which includes that pin).

>    Pin 13 MUST go to the lowest DC potential that any of the pins on the CA3046
>will see.  The transistors are isolated with basically a reversed biased diode
>junction.  You also have to remember that the breakdown voltage of this part is
>only 20 volts, so choose wisely, although, I have stretched this and have run
>them at 27.5 volts.  What I really need to do myself is set up a little rig to
>test the breakdown voltage....

The lowest DC potential in my circuit is the -15V supply rail. I am
unsure if the transistor pair I am using will ever see this, but I
might as well tie the substrate line to that rail just in case. Yes?

Many thanks for your help BTW.

Christian.


From jhaible at t-online.de  Thu Aug 16 23:20:58 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:20:58 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
References: <OJEHIEGGNPIJDNGJANPAIEECCCAA.schwich@qwest.net> <00c001c12684$aa827720$1353073e@paul>
Message-ID: <000f01c126b8$82d63980$0ff19e3e@debitel.net>

> > I had to help get cerification on some PC sound cards in the US.
Anything
> > that has real digital in it can be considerably harder than straight
> analog
> > (low freq stuff < 10 mHz).

In large companies EMC tests (part of CE certification) are a big thing.
It's not unusual that as much time is spent for EMC engineering as for
the whole rest of the design. Especially when the product has the full
functionality of a PC, but not a PC's metal enclosure.

I severely doubt that small companies can go thru all of this. OTOH,
everybody can place the CE sticker on his products, confirming the
conformity (AFAIK you *must* do this to sell anything in the EU),
but no one will probably sue you because of excess radiation, as long
as no one files a suit.

If I were truely evil, I'd take a few uC-based boxes of a - hmmm -
"certain" manufacturer and put them thru some measurements,
just to see what happens (;->). But then again, everybody's
sitting in a glass house these days.

JH.




From schwich at qwest.net  Thu Aug 16 23:26:52 2001
From: schwich at qwest.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:26:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
In-Reply-To: <00c001c12684$aa827720$1353073e@paul>
Message-ID: <OJEHIEGGNPIJDNGJANPAOEEGCCAA.schwich@qwest.net>

Paul,

First off I've enjoyed your WEB site, thanks.

Second as I sit here typing this the UPS guys shows up with my DigiKey order
with all sorts of synth parts. COOL!

What they are really looking for is signals above ~50 mHz if I remember
right (it's been about 2 years now). There are 2 commmercal companies here
that do testing.

First you start out in a closed chamber that is EMI sealled both from the
inside and outside. It is a metal faraday cage with conductive foam that is
shaped like pyramids all around it. This keeps things from reflecting inside
the cage and forming EMI hot spots. With all this mobile comm stuff even in
a sealed room like this they can still have problems. A good techician can
look at the plots and tell if a cell phone is the problem or not. They have
turntables that rotate 180 degrees one way and then 180 the other. You place
your gear on a table and do a spin. Antennas in the room gather the EMI.
It's ran to a pre-amp, then to a spectrum analyzer with a computer taking
the data from the spectrum analyzer. The computer then prints out a report
on what the spectrum is, usually with indicators on what the acceptable
level is. They do this with the antennas both horizontal and vertical. If
you fail the test then you have to do the song and dance to get your product
to work. When you are below 4 to 6 db below the limits you do an "open field
test" to actually get the certification. The one time I did this phase of
testing it was literally open field. There was a large canvas tent set up in
a secluded gully in the Oregon coast range faceing the ocean. The test was
pretty much the same.

The people we dealt with would charge you by the hour. Depending on how busy
they were it would be $75 to $100 an hour. A minimal session for us would be
2 hours but we had a fair amount of setup time.

Being in the PC cards will pick up every thing inside the PC and radiate it
out the connectors or the backplate. Details of how grounding is done and
other things become extermly critical. Your project may not be as sensitive.
Here are some suggestions that might help:

Look at some products that have simular electronics to yours.
1) Are they in metal or plastic coated metal.
2) What do they have for connectors and how are they mounted to the case or
PCB.
3) Look at the PCBs and pay particular attention to the grounding on them.
Grounding is a very critical part of getting through EMI testing. If you are
doing high end audio and EMI testing they also seem to be mutualy exclusive.

Be generous with your bypass caps on the chips. Get them as close as
possible to the IC pins. Also run the power to the cap then to the pin. DO
NOT run power to the pin and then the cap! This forms little antennas that
radiate EMI.

Put EMI filters/chokes on the PS inputs.

If you have high freq. clocks running around put series resistors at the
clock source before it goes anywhere or is used. I think the run of thumb
here is less than 100 ohms, we used 33 ohms.

Hopes this helps.
Jay



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 16 23:32:56 2001
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:32:56 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
References: <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com> <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1269b$04d9e620$6c5e143f@Studio1>

The Mouser catalog has CA3046, if that's what you want. I believe they are
available at several places if you look hard enough.

I still say the CA3083 is superior. Excellent matching and about half the
Re.

  Ian


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Patchell" <patchell at silcom.com>
To: <Christian at actor.freeuk.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?


>
>
> Christian wrote:
>
> >
> > I managed to get quite a few (10) 3086's and I shall test the
> > transistors to attempt to get the best match. When all said and done,
> > if the VCO works and is stable then it doesn't matter what you use.
> > If she drifts like a ship lost at sea then I shall think again.
> >
>
>     The 3086 is exactly the same die...just not tested for matching.  I am
> willing to be you will find they match quite well.
>
> >
> > Another question. Anyone doing anything fancy with Pin 13 (substrate)?
> > I am currently tying all spare transistor bases and emitters to ground
> > (which includes that pin).
> >
>
>     Pin 13 MUST go to the lowest DC potential that any of the pins on the
CA3046
> will see.  The transistors are isolated with basically a reversed biased
diode
> junction.  You also have to remember that the breakdown voltage of this
part is
> only 20 volts, so choose wisely, although, I have stretched this and have
run
> them at 27.5 volts.  What I really need to do myself is set up a little
rig to
> test the breakdown voltage....
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Christian.
>
>     -Jim
>
>



From apogeesunset at juno.com  Thu Aug 16 23:52:54 2001
From: apogeesunset at juno.com (CAsey J Crane)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:52:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Where to find ?
Message-ID: <20010816.145306.-1928231.0.apogeesunset@juno.com>

Hi all,

        Does anyone know where I might find dry transfer lettering
in white and/or other colors other than black ? 

        I'm working with black plexigalss.

Casey
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.


From apogeesunset at juno.com  Thu Aug 16 23:57:59 2001
From: apogeesunset at juno.com (CAsey J Crane)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:57:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] How do I....... ?
Message-ID: <20010816.145803.-1928231.1.apogeesunset@juno.com>

hi all again,

        If I want to post a schematic as a web page somewhere how do I go
about doing this ? and, is it free ?

Casey
________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Aug 17 01:52:00 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:52:00 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
References: <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com> <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com> <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com> <f1eontoru3uvf35c0f7bkheufibv3cmper@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B7C5CA0.17B39F7@silcom.com>

    Man, I am so stressed out at the moment, I can't remember if I replied to this or
not, so....here goes anyway...

Christian wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:37:53 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >> Another question. Anyone doing anything fancy with Pin 13 (substrate)?
> >> I am currently tying all spare transistor bases and emitters to ground
> >> (which includes that pin).
>
> >    Pin 13 MUST go to the lowest DC potential that any of the pins on the CA3046
> >will see.  The transistors are isolated with basically a reversed biased diode
> >junction.  You also have to remember that the breakdown voltage of this part is
> >only 20 volts, so choose wisely, although, I have stretched this and have run
> >them at 27.5 volts.  What I really need to do myself is set up a little rig to
> >test the breakdown voltage....
>
> The lowest DC potential in my circuit is the -15V supply rail. I am
> unsure if the transistor pair I am using will ever see this, but I
> might as well tie the substrate line to that rail just in case. Yes?
>

    Yes, this is the sure fire way.  The best way, is, to find out what the lowest
voltage will be, but, I have to confess, I am usually way to lazy and just use the
-15V myself.  The thing you need to remember is that 20 volt limit...

>
> Many thanks for your help BTW.
>
> Christian.

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Aug 17 01:53:44 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:53:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Where to find ?
References: <20010816.145306.-1928231.0.apogeesunset@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3B7C5D08.BF1B164D@silcom.com>

    I got some white lettering at a local art store.  Also, drafting
supply store (which, in general, have disapears almost totally where I
live due to the advent of CAD) is another good place to look.

CAsey J Crane wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>         Does anyone know where I might find dry transfer lettering
> in white and/or other colors other than black ?
>
>         I'm working with black plexigalss.
>
> Casey
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From atom at suspicious.org  Fri Aug 17 02:03:56 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:03:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] labels, panels, etc...
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108161956280.4288-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

a place i haven't dealt with, but they seem to offer good stuff.....
(they sent me some samples)
		http://cuttingedgeinc.com/

they do all kinds of stuff, like back-printed lexan, and metal-photo.

if anyone deals with them, let us know how it goes.

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"I am somehow less interested in the weight and convolutions
	 of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of
         equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops."
		-- Stephen Jay Gould




From jhaible at t-online.de  Fri Aug 17 03:03:59 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 03:03:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Linear vs. Exponential control of VCA's
References: <OF93CA8EDA.1C170515-ONC1256AAA.002B4FB3@idg.se> <3B7BB963.36D97B6F@home.net> <01aa01c1268e$2767a540$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <001001c126b8$839802e0$0ff19e3e@debitel.net>


> Maybe I am off but;
> Wouldn't a expo VCA driven with a linear EG give a "unnatural" attack
curve?
>
> The "resulting" attack of  the combination exponential EG and linear VCA
> first changes rapidly and then slower as it reaches the top.
> While a linear EG driving a expo VCA would give a slow start and then rush
> to the maximum.
> Also the two combinations are not interchangeable.

Exactly.

JH.






From mcphive at corrupt.net  Fri Aug 17 03:55:02 2001
From: mcphive at corrupt.net (andy)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:55:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] success #2: Ken Stone Suboscillator
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108162152200.24177-100000@washington.corrupt.net>


	Just finished assembling the Ken Stone Suboscillator... and it
works great too!! That's 2 for 2.... the instructions are very clear and
easy to understand, his PCB's are clearly laid out, and it sounds very
good.

	The only problem...... I think I'm addicted to synth-diy now.
arrrrrrrrrrrrr, the only cure is to build vclfo's out of the xr2209s i
just got in the mail

	andy



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Aug 17 04:46:19 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:46:19 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
References: <F188Jl3Oh3Quct2Dskn000090d3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B7C8579.ED64BAF1@prodigy.net>

Bass, Guitar, and Drums all have very fast attack and slow decay... Thats
why I prefer the peak detector. The only problem is that with bass and guitar
sometimes the player will stop the strings by muting. The peak detector does
not handle this too well.  I've done some detectors that have a a fast and a
slow
decay detector, then compare the outputs. They both attack at the same rate,
but fall at differnet rates.  The slow one should fall at about the natural rate
for
the instrument... the fast one much quicker. I diode couple the fast one so it
can dump the charge on the slow detector if the signal level falls suddenly.  It
works pretty
well.

H^) harry

Dr Strangelove wrote:

> Well, I wanted to do bass, guitar, and my drum machine.
> Do you know what kind of envelope follower the Mooger Fooger uses?  I was
> happy with the way it sounded (although it sometimes would freek out on a
> decaying chord and move up and down very erratically)
>
>          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
> >From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> >To: Tim Escobedo <tpe123 at yahoo.com>
> >CC: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >Subject: Re: [sdiy] Evelope Follower
> >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:49:06 -0400
> >
> >One very important point of "envelope follower" is...
> >
> >what do you want it to follow ?
> >
> >For guitar use, I prefer a peak detector circuit to a rectifier / filter
> >circuit.
> >The peak detect has a fast rise time and slow decay....
> >
> >The trade is between acceptable response time, and acceptable ripple
> >in the output. For guitar and bass, by the time you reduce ripple
> >(causes harmonic and IM distortion in units driven by the CV...) you have
> >killed the response time.  Can't win...
> >
> >H^) harry
> >
> >
> >
> >Tim Escobedo wrote:
> >
> > > In-Reply-To: <F32a4k3z6QEy0Dll7fn000082dd at hotmail.com>
> > > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > >
> > > The easiest envelope follower circuits can probably be found in guitar
> > > pedals. These generally involve tapping into the original signal,
> > > amplifying it, rectifying it, and filtering it. The result is a DC
> > > voltage proportional to the level of the original signal. It's
> > > particularly effective with dynamic signals like those from electric
> > > guitar. With a rather static signal, whose envelope characteristics are
> > > more on/off, the envelope follower may be less effective unless
> > > preceded by a EG/VCA, or some kind of "attack" control is built in to
> > > the env follower.
> > >
> > > http://www.muzique.com/schem/quack.gif has a simple example of an
> > > envelope follower (IC1a).
> > >
> > > --- Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hi, I've been working away trying to build a little mono-synth but
> > > > the next
> > > > semester is nearly upon me so I'm revising my plans.  I've got a
> > > > working
> > > > filter I've built that I like a lot and I like the way all sorts of
> > > > sounds
> > > > work with it.  I am wanting to place the filter in a crybaby wah-wah
> > > > housing
> > > > and have the cutoff under foot control, I also want to have an
> > > > envelope
> > > > follower in there too with variable control voltage sent to the
> > > > filter
> > > > cutoff.  I'll place the knobs for input level, Envelope follower
> > > > control and
> > > > resonance on the top of the crybaby.  It should be lots of fun.
> > > >
> > > > I cannot find a schematic for an envelope follower.  Can anyone
> > > > direct me to
> > > > a good envelope follower schematic, preferably a simple one?  I'm
> > > > using +/-
> > > > 12v power. :-)
> > > >
> > > >          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
> > > >        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > > > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From apogeesunset at juno.com  Fri Aug 17 04:49:47 2001
From: apogeesunset at juno.com (CAsey J Crane)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:49:47 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Ribbon controller
Message-ID: <20010816.194958.-221873.0.apogeesunset@juno.com>

Hi all,

        Has anyone ever homebrewed up a ribbon controller and if they
have, how?
Casey
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.


From tpaddock at seanet.com  Fri Aug 17 05:31:46 2001
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:31:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Free big 5 ohm resistors
Message-ID: <01C12692.79D0EAE0@dialup-64.154.187.30.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net>

Free to good home:

Qty 4 - 225W 5 ohm adjustable resistors.
Ohmite D225K5R0 vitreous enameled resistor
Brown ceramic tube, slider clamp,
solder lugs, large, you know the ones.
No brackets. New in box.

Might be good for dummy speaker loads 
or ballast resistors for really really 
really big LEDs.

I don't know how to ship internationally, 
so USA only I guess.
You pay shipping.

Welllllll, vitreous enameled, la-deeee-da.
Toby
Paddock



From matti at devo.com  Fri Aug 17 07:08:42 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:08:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
In-Reply-To: <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108170106150.13645-100000@whipit.devo.com>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Jim Patchell wrote:
>
>     The 3086 is exactly the same die...just not tested for matching.  I am
> willing to be you will find they match quite well.
>


err...I seem to remember on this list, reading about one synth
manufacturer, who bought some scertain chip, guarranteed at 98%, or some
such. out of each batch of 100, the exact same two positions were bad,
each time. So....careful

the numbers above are entirely madeup, of course. this was not to long
ago, finding in the archive shouldn't be so hard.

-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Fri Aug 17 07:28:45 2001
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:28:45 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Ribbon controller
Message-ID: <3b7cab8d.3a78.0@telusplanet.net>

>Hi all,
>
>        Has anyone ever homebrewed up a ribbon controller and if they
>have, how?
>Casey

See:

www.angefire.com/electronic/epeasant/projects/ribbon/controller.html

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Fri Aug 17 08:38:48 2001
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:38:48 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT: TTL logic, trains and interference
Message-ID: <OFB3D9C8FE.97B86F55-ONC1256AAB.00234C7A@idg.se>


>I have always been facinated by trains.

Yeah, me too.

>I was a member of the Sumpter Valley Railroad for a while.

Cool. I was a member of Upsala - Lenna Railroad, a preserved line here i
Sweden (see http://www.srjmf.se/). Hmm.. there used to be a page in
english.

We have speeders similar to yours, which are equipped with VW engines. They
are dangerously fast, considering the line is three foot gauge. If you dare
to drive flat-out, they will do 100 km/h (over 60 mph). Here is a picture
of a less powerful type: http://www.srjmf.se/pictures/dressin1.gif

/Jorgen



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Aug 17 10:17:28 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:17:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval
References: <OJEHIEGGNPIJDNGJANPAIEECCCAA.schwich@qwest.net> <000d01c12675$c6cc6e40$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <000401c126f8$d00c5aa0$ae0687d9@default>

>I think VDE is the German UL equivalent but more severe.

VDE 0871 it was in my Marconi days I think... going back to the late 80s
when I did all that big manufacturing stuff.

And we had this little song. Sung to the tune of 'Little Brown Jug'

Ho ha hee, tee hee hee,
we conform to VDE!


Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From nss at hevanet.com  Fri Aug 17 12:35:08 2001
From: nss at hevanet.com (nss at hevanet.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 03:35:08 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT: TTL logic, trains and interference- results
References: <3.0.5.32.20010815225414.00eb1e20@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <000501c125cc$5488eba0$b33d073e@c7i1i9> <3B7BACC5.1F83@hevanet.com> <001101c12679$abefc3c0$bd2a2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <3B7CF35C.471E@hevanet.com>

>I was a member of the Sumpter Valley Railroad for a while. I have great
photos from there too.

I volenteer up at Mt.Rainier scenic railroad in Washington state myself,
a backwoods sort of deal.

>I will build a web site and post the photos.

Love to see them!!

>How do you get permission to use the right of way?

Money! and good PR. Mostly small railroads which could use the
cash(100usd or so per day per car) let us on. Some consider it good PR
also. 

We must continually convince them of our safety record and dedication to
putting safty first. 


>Where are the motorcars available?

Around. Railroad auctions, scrapyards, people with conections. Most seem
to come down from Canada these days, mostly Canadian National.

>Is this a club?

http://www.narcoa.org/
is the national club

>Fill me in.

Let me know if you want to know more. In the "old days" 1990 or so, it
was a very DIY kind of thing. But people with more money and less know
how have gotten into it and have driven the price way up and the fun
level down.

BTW I solved the interference problem with some better shielded wire to
the sensor and ferrite beads on the sensor wire and power supply wires!

all it needs is an on rail test... next week!

-AL Fisher
Portland, OR



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Fri Aug 17 12:39:14 2001
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:39:14 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
In-Reply-To: <f1eontoru3uvf35c0f7bkheufibv3cmper@4ax.com>
References: <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
 <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com>
 <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com>
 <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com>
 <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010817123914.00e65b60@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 22:20 16.08.01 +0100, Christian wrote:
>The lowest DC potential in my circuit is the -15V supply rail. I am
>unsure if the transistor pair I am using will ever see this, but I
>might as well tie the substrate line to that rail just in case. Yes?


That depends on the rest of the circuit - when the output collector of the
expo runs into a virtual ground node for example, you'd be safe. The
transistors would never see more than -15volts. But when the collector is
going to a higher potential, the 20volts for Uceo might be exeeded.
(Chances are the chip will even survive this.) 
Putting pin 13 to -5V will be safer, you can use a voltage divider from the
negative supply to get that. 
The lowest potential in the expo circuit is at the emitters, they will be
usually arround -0.7V below GND.

Cheers,
 Ren?


-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From tpaddock at seanet.com  Fri Aug 17 16:18:58 2001
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 07:18:58 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] silkscreening and other finishings
Message-ID: <01C126ED.0A931300@dialup-64.154.187.30.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net>

Thanks for the "retro labeling" tips. I'll probably go with dymo or 
typewriter-on-paper-with-tape-on-top. Maybe use kapton tape 
for that aged yellow look. I have just the bad old typewriter for 
the job. Engraved labels would be great, 
but I think I want a cheesy homemade look for this.

And I'm forwarding the following. I thought I did. But I see I didn't. 
So now I am. Sorry for the delay Rich.

Later,
Toby Paddock
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have a couple of 5 watt single ended valve amps (with transformer coupled
balanced inputs!) made by the BBC in the early sixties....... for labeling
the ins/outs and controls they use tiny black/white/black plastic plates
with engraved legends on them. held in place with tiny wee countersunk
screws. the screw heads all line up in the same direction, too..... i wish i
had the time and patience do do that with every project i made......
rich g.

p.s Toby... can you do me a favour if this email reaches you and post it on
to the list for me?... every post ive ever tried to make to the list in 1
year of subscribing has bounced back to me with a dns error.... maybe if
anyone has experienced anything like this before and knows any possible
answers to my problem? we have a problem with reverse dns lookups for our
domain, i dont know if the s-diy mail server has a hang up about
this.........:o(




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri Aug 17 17:34:24 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:34:24 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] +/- 15V voltmeter
References: <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com><3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de><F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com><3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de><8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com><3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de><q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com><3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com> <3.0.5.32.20010817123914.00e65b60@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <003201c12732$1d9a8b00$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

Put one of  these on your next LFO. It will look so cool!
http://people.atl.mediaone.net/efm3/ssv.pdf

Tom




From jhaible at t-online.de  Fri Aug 17 17:46:35 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:46:35 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
References: <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com><3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de><F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com><3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de><8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com><3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de><q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com><3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com> <3.0.5.32.20010817123914.00e65b60@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <000601c12740$e583e0e0$487ae03e@debitel.net>

> That depends on the rest of the circuit - when the output collector of the
> expo runs into a virtual ground node for example, you'd be safe. The
> transistors would never see more than -15volts. But when the collector is
> going to a higher potential, the 20volts for Uceo might be exeeded.

I suspect that's why Tom Oberheim used that strange T-divider instead of
a single resistor for the ref current in the SEM's expo converters.
Normally, virtual GND, but you can never know.

Others were more adventurous. I think ARP has violated the pin13-most-
negative-rule once. And in general, they knew what they were doing:
Some of the most impressive circuits built from 3086 BJT and
4007 MOSFET arrays.

JH.




From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Fri Aug 17 18:22:46 2001
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:22:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] partminer
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010817092246.0078767c@popserv.ucop.edu>

so--
what's up with Partminer?
Tried to access them for the first time in a while, 
& got a "you must register" message.
Went through the whole re-registration riamarole,
was told "you'll be receiving an email soon with your
password"
and haven't heard jack since.

Should i feel paranoid, or is this happening to
others?


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Aug 17 19:01:29 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:01:29 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] partminer
References: <3.0.3.32.20010817092246.0078767c@popserv.ucop.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7D4DE8.E079A401@prodigy.net>

Partminer is closed...

you use www.freetradezone.com  now
(was partminer) Now its all web based, no softs on
you machine

H^) harry

Greg Montalbano wrote:

> so--
> what's up with Partminer?
> Tried to access them for the first time in a while,
> & got a "you must register" message.
> Went through the whole re-registration riamarole,
> was told "you'll be receiving an email soon with your
> password"
> and haven't heard jack since.
>
> Should i feel paranoid, or is this happening to
> others?



From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Aug 17 19:17:51 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:17:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
In-Reply-To: <000101c1267c$1ce2a460$66c5893e@default>
Message-ID: <B7A2BBEF.21DA1%grichter@asapnet.net>

That was a 4 x 4 telephone key pad with a tuning knob per key. Other than
the unusual arrangement, it worked like a regular keyboard with sample and
hold and a gate output.

In the middle was a set of switch activated Vactrols for noiseless
switching.

> From: "Steve Ridley" <spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk>
> Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:27:28 +0100
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Calculator Synth
> 
> 
> You could check out the EML300 too.  I think this
> must have been the first calculator style controller
> for synths (unless, of course, you know different).
> 
> I haven't seen a schematic, but there are pics on
> the usual websites (music machines etc)
> 
> 
> Steve Ridley
> 
> 
> 
> 




From thomas at roundhouse.se  Fri Aug 17 20:02:30 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:02:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] How do I....... ?
In-Reply-To: <20010816.145803.-1928231.1.apogeesunset@juno.com>
References: <20010816.145803.-1928231.1.apogeesunset@juno.com>
Message-ID: <v04220800b7a309d14439@[213.112.172.196]>

Casey:
> If I want to post a schematic as a web page somewhere how do I go
> about doing this ? and, is it free ?

How do you mean, free?
If you mean free as in publishing someone else's
schematic you'd better ask the person who did the
design first.

If you mean free webspace there are tons of free
hosting services that, in return for banners and/or
intersticials will provide you with free web space.

I'm far from an expert, but check this listing out:

http://www.thefreesite.com/Free_Web_Space/

When it comes to the format to publish your schematic
in, I personally prefer PDF documents. They are
scalable and easy to download and if you have an
Adobe Acrobat plug-in for you browser you will be
able to see the schematic in your browser window.

If you have schematics that you want converted into
PDF format and don't know how, I can help you with
that. The image has to be in a format that I can
use to create a PDF though; preferably an EPS or
an Adobe Illustrator file, but a large GIF, JPEG,
BMP or TIFF will do.

Second best is an image format for the WWW - GIF,
JPEG or PNG. Avoid PNG if you want to reach people
with older browsers. Don't get me wrong - it's an
excellent image format, but older browsers don't
support it.


/Thomas
___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Fri Aug 17 20:44:28 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:44:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
Message-ID: <E15Xof4-000Cjh-0K@tele-post-20.mail.demon.net>

Hi all,
some of you may remeber a post a few weeks back regarding anold apple mac
performa 450 i had been given and was enquiring about use as a lo fi sampler
etc. Well, today i had my first real chance to do much with it, and its
internal power supply went fizzle pop puff. So, now i have a keyboard,
mouse, monitor printer, scsi 1 HD, chip fan, and er.. thats about it. Any
salvageable parts from this lot/ ideas for uses of any parts, or anyone want
any of it before it ends up in the bin. Monitor, KB, mouse etc all work,
just PSU is dead as far as a i know.

thanks

Seb Carr


From Netroin at aol.com  Fri Aug 17 21:34:42 2001
From: Netroin at aol.com (Netroin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:34:42 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
Message-ID: <55.19fa8ed4.28aecbd2@aol.com>

If I remember corectly a performa 450 is LCIII form factor? If so I have an 
LCIII with a dead floppy that I dont use. So shipping permitted I'll give it 
away fer parts (possible mobo upgrade here). Check out apple spec and see if 
they cross.... If so it's yours minus floppy and HD


From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri Aug 17 21:40:07 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:40:07 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] +/- 15V voltmeter
References: <200108171856.f7HIuML24445@dns2.seanet.com>
Message-ID: <001201c12754$6ed259e0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>


> Excellent!

Even better add another 50K pot (no resistor needed) and a 
spdt. Adjust the SSV which should really be a ZCV( zero x-ing 
vm ) or even ZCDCVM  ( zero x-ing DC vm ..;-) so that 
.5 = 1V and you have a dual range +/-16V (full range) +/-4V 
vm.....much more useful.....;-)

The (-) terminal should actually be labeled gnd and the (+) terminal
should really be labeled (+/- V ).....and you should really drop
a nice bright blue led in behind the scale....;-)

Tom







From pinknoiz at pinknoiz.com  Sat Aug 18 00:18:23 2001
From: pinknoiz at pinknoiz.com (Bob Gonsalves)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:18:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] EDN Design Ideas 17Aug2001
Message-ID: <p04320400b7a3487574fc@[64.1.5.178]>

For the complete Design Ideas section in PDF format, go to
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.949.10.910807891

Convert periodic waveforms to square waves
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.949.11.910807891

Circuit improves on first-event detection
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.949.12.910807891

LED doubles as emitter and detector
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.949.13.910807891

Watchdog circuit uses AC triggering
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.949.14.910807891

Use power line for baud-rate generation
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.949.15.910807891

Inline equations offer hysteresis switch in PSpice
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.949.16.910807891


rgrds,
-Bob Gonsalves


From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Sat Aug 18 00:29:11 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:29:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
References: <55.19fa8ed4.28aecbd2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1276c$0a649640$1643073e@paul>

Seb/Netroin,

> If I remember corectly a performa 450 is LCIII form factor? If so I have
an
> LCIII with a dead floppy that I dont use. So shipping permitted I'll give
it
> away fer parts (possible mobo upgrade here). Check out apple spec and see
if
> they cross.... If so it's yours minus floppy and HD

Could I possibly pinch the processor (or system board if its soldered on)
from one of these two?
Ive been wanting to play with a 680x0 processor for a while...

Many thanks
Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Aug 18 06:21:12 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:21:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Theremin Movie
Message-ID: <3B7DED38.DD2B9F6B@silcom.com>

    I just finally got to see this movie...I can't remember if it was
somebody on this list who mentioned it, or I saw something about it
somewhere else...

    For those who have not seen this movie...Get IT!  NOW! I command
you!  It is a documentary on the life of Leon Theremin.  It includes
interviews with Clara Rockmore, Leon Theremin (he was still alive when
the movie was made), several other associates of his whose names escape
me.  Plus, interviews with Rober Moog, Brian Wilson (they could have
skipped him, he was slightly less than lucid), plus some old movie clips
that used the Theremin, including the Jerry Lewis movie where Jerry has
a close encounter with a Theremin.

    I am going to have to listen to this movie again tomorrow night.  I
could have sworn I heard Clara Rockmore say something to the effect that
the Moog Theremin was inferior....

    The name of the movie is "Theremin An Electronic Odyssey" from Avant
Garde Cinema (MGM).

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From thomas at roundhouse.se  Sat Aug 18 07:38:14 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:38:14 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
In-Reply-To: <002b01c1276c$0a649640$1643073e@paul>
References: <55.19fa8ed4.28aecbd2@aol.com> <002b01c1276c$0a649640$1643073e@paul>
Message-ID: <v04220800b7a3ae0a98c5@[213.112.172.213]>

Paul Maddox:
> Could I possibly pinch the processor (or system board if its soldered on)
> from one of these two?
> Ive been wanting to play with a 680x0 processor for a while...

Just out of curiosity - what can you build with a
Motorola 680x0 processor?

I'm also looking for tips as to what to pinch from
a huge stack of old computers that we have in our
basement at the office. They are all going to an
electronics recycle company, but before they do I
was allowed to salvage whatever I'd like.

If you look at the motherboards I guess most of
the IC's are digital. So far I have salvage a couple
of PSU's, some cooling fans, a couple of boxes
and a bunch of transformers.

Anything else I shall be on the lookout for?
Apart from computers there are screens, a fax or
two, a couple of portable computers (old), some
modems and perhaps a phone or two - the usual
office stuff.

/Thomas
___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From efm3 at mediaone.net  Sat Aug 18 07:45:28 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 01:45:28 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Theremin Movie
References: <3B7DED38.DD2B9F6B@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <001301c127a8$ff9c31e0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

It was seeing that movie that was the inspiration for the LDR Theremin
I woke up one night and there it was in my head...worked the first 
time....excellent stuff that movie...;-) 

Tom


>     I just finally got to see this movie...I can't remember if it was
> somebody on this list who mentioned it, or I saw something about it
> somewhere else...
> 
>     For those who have not seen this movie...Get IT!  NOW! I command
> you!  It is a documentary on the life of Leon Theremin.  It includes
> interviews with Clara Rockmore, Leon Theremin (he was still alive when
> the movie was made), several other associates of his whose names escape
> me.  Plus, interviews with Rober Moog, Brian Wilson (they could have
> skipped him, he was slightly less than lucid), plus some old movie clips
> that used the Theremin, including the Jerry Lewis movie where Jerry has
> a close encounter with a Theremin.
> 
>     I am going to have to listen to this movie again tomorrow night.  I
> could have sworn I heard Clara Rockmore say something to the effect that
> the Moog Theremin was inferior....
> 
>     The name of the movie is "Theremin An Electronic Odyssey" from Avant
> Garde Cinema (MGM).
> 
> --
>  -Jim




From colinf at ntlworld.com  Sat Aug 18 09:04:35 2001
From: colinf at ntlworld.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:04:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Theremin Movie
In-Reply-To: <001301c127a8$ff9c31e0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <000101c127b4$0a29e980$c5a0ff3e@mshome.net>

Once you've watched the film, which is a great story but not entirely
accurate, read the book Theremin: Ether Music and Espionage
by Albert Glinsky.
Theremin had a hell of a life, most of which is not covered in the film, but
the book gives a much more complete picture of him.
Don't expect a happy ending though...

Colin f



From bigtex at cwnet.com  Sat Aug 18 11:22:44 2001
From: bigtex at cwnet.com (Tavys Ashcroft)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 02:22:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
In-Reply-To: <E15Xof4-000Cjh-0K@tele-post-20.mail.demon.net>
References: <E15Xof4-000Cjh-0K@tele-post-20.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <v04220802b7a3e3353b0d@[209.209.112.96]>

>Any salvageable parts from this lot/ ideas for uses of any parts, or 
>anyone want any of it before it ends up in the bin. Monitor, KB, 
>mouse etc all work,
>just PSU is dead as far as a i know.

Well, I just picked up a Mac Classic today for $10 and have already 
loaded MIDI sequencing software on it (Performer), but am sharing the 
keyboard and mouse between two computers now.  If they would 
otherwise go away, I'd be very happy to pay shipping to get the 
keyboard and mouse, and maybe the hard drive, too.  This thing has a 
40 meg hard drive.

Jeez, I must be a computer nerd or something because I remember 
upgrading my Mac SE to 4 MEGS OF RAM! (wow, what am I going to do 
with all that RAM???), and getting a 62 meg hard drive for only $250. 
How could I ever fill up 62 megs of hard drive space??  I'll never 
need to upgrade again!

Um, back to the synthesizer talk, y'all.

-Tavys



From massann at tin.it  Sat Aug 18 12:11:05 2001
From: massann at tin.it (massann at tin.it)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:11:05 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <MWMail.nmcjimnm@host.none>

unsubscribe massann at tin.it



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat Aug 18 13:08:12 2001
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:08:12 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
In-Reply-To: <000601c12740$e583e0e0$487ae03e@debitel.net>
References: <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
 <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com>
 <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com>
 <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
 <q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com>
 <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
 <3.0.5.32.20010817123914.00e65b60@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010818130812.00fb93e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 17:46 17.08.01 +0200, jh. wrote:
>> That depends on the rest of the circuit - when the output collector of the
>> expo runs into a virtual ground node for example, you'd be safe. The
>> transistors would never see more than -15volts. But when the collector is
>> going to a higher potential, the 20volts for Uceo might be exeeded.
>
>I suspect that's why Tom Oberheim used that strange T-divider instead of
>a single resistor for the ref current in the SEM's expo converters.
>Normally, virtual GND, but you can never know.

I've wondered about that, too. But then pin 13 is tied to -1.5V via that
1k/10k divider, so even when the collectors would hit 15V there would be a
margin of 3.5V. 

>Others were more adventurous. I think ARP has violated the pin13-most-
>negative-rule once. And in general, they knew what they were doing:
>Some of the most impressive circuits built from 3086 BJT and
>4007 MOSFET arrays.

Hmmm. In that circuit (if the Quadra is what you mean) the pin 13 is 
open. Now, what would happen if one simply can leaves pin 13 open? 
As I see it the insulating diodes between any two collectors would be 
back to back. And no current could flow. 
Would we only need to tie pin 13 to the lowest potential if the fifth 
transistor is actually used in the circuit? 
That could be an alternative interpretation of the datasheet. 

Cheers,
 Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From music.maker at gte.net  Sat Aug 18 13:40:23 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:40:23
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
Message-ID: <200108182041.f7IKfnW27866@smtp007.mailsrvcs.net>

C'mon, you guys that have these gotta do something with them.
That's a nice CPU.  I've only played with their runt litter
mates 6800, 6803 and 6809.  Even these can do *something*
musical.  The 68K line is quantum leaps better.

"Paul Maddox" <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com> wrote:
>Doug,
>
>> I have a used but good MC68HC000P10 chip here, pulled from a pcb that was
>replaced
>> for Y2K. Man this thing is BIG, 64 pins! Anybody want it?
>
>beat ya!
>I got the 68000CP16 :-)
>16Mhz version, and yes its HUGE!!!!
>
>Im hanging onto mine just for the fact Ive never seena bigger DIL chip,
>yet...
>
>Paul Maddox
>_______________________________________
>Wavesynth home page;-
>    Http://www.wavesynth.com
>Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
>PPG Synthesizer pages;-
>    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
>Waveterm C Project page;-
>    Http://www.waveterm.com
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Aug 18 16:22:19 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:22:19 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
References: <55.19fa8ed4.28aecbd2@aol.com> <002b01c1276c$0a649640$1643073e@paul> <v04220800b7a3ae0a98c5@[213.112.172.213]>
Message-ID: <3B7E7A1B.453F4018@silcom.com>

    What can you build with a 68K???

    In my opinion, the 68000 is the most fun processor to program.  I have been
using it for 15 years now.

    When it comes right down to it, it really won't do anything more than any
other processor.

    Also, you need a good assembler, compiler, and linker to go with it, and
those can get expensive (I have never used the GNU tools with it, but those
will work and are free).

    My particular fav for DIY projects is the 68008.  It has been out of
production for a long time now (like everything else that is good for DIY
projects).  If you run across these things, you have made a real find.

    I have also written my own RTOS that runs on the 68000, which you can find
somewhere on my webpage.

Thomas Kahn wrote:

> Paul Maddox:
> > Could I possibly pinch the processor (or system board if its soldered on)
> > from one of these two?
> > Ive been wanting to play with a 680x0 processor for a while...
>
> Just out of curiosity - what can you build with a
> Motorola 680x0 processor?
>
> I'm also looking for tips as to what to pinch from
> a huge stack of old computers that we have in our
> basement at the office. They are all going to an
> electronics recycle company, but before they do I
> was allowed to salvage whatever I'd like.
>
> If you look at the motherboards I guess most of
> the IC's are digital. So far I have salvage a couple
> of PSU's, some cooling fans, a couple of boxes
> and a bunch of transformers.
>
> Anything else I shall be on the lookout for?
> Apart from computers there are screens, a fax or
> two, a couple of portable computers (old), some
> modems and perhaps a phone or two - the usual
> office stuff.
>
> /Thomas
> ___________________________________
> Thomas Kahn
> Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
> ICQ: 19705911
> WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
> MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Aug 18 16:29:52 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:29:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CA3086 and CA3046?
References: <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
	 <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
	 <F270M5nWGsRw17kCiUL00008adc@hotmail.com>
	 <3.0.5.32.20010816010504.00f168e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
	 <8numntcbfiqbplf9prl20ej9nqlnit400v@4ax.com>
	 <3.0.5.32.20010816122011.00eb5d30@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
	 <q10ont034ti05i1mcftbr9pnbq06kv59jf@4ax.com>
	 <3B7C2111.C985DDAB@silcom.com>
	 <3.0.5.32.20010817123914.00e65b60@mailout.uni-bonn.de> <3.0.5.32.20010818130812.00fb93e0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3B7E7BDF.70F4C1D4@silcom.com>

    I don't know why Tom Oberheim used the T-divider in the reference leg of the
exponential converter, but I used to use one for the simple reason I could not
afford the the then rather expensive FET opamps.  Using the  T divider would give
me an equivalent large resistance, without the problem of the bias current from
the BJT opamp getting in there and messing things up.

    -Jim

Ren? Schmitz wrote:

> At 17:46 17.08.01 +0200, jh. wrote:
> >> That depends on the rest of the circuit - when the output collector of the
> >> expo runs into a virtual ground node for example, you'd be safe. The
> >> transistors would never see more than -15volts. But when the collector is
> >> going to a higher potential, the 20volts for Uceo might be exeeded.
> >
> >I suspect that's why Tom Oberheim used that strange T-divider instead of
> >a single resistor for the ref current in the SEM's expo converters.
> >Normally, virtual GND, but you can never know.
>
> I've wondered about that, too. But then pin 13 is tied to -1.5V via that
> 1k/10k divider, so even when the collectors would hit 15V there would be a
> margin of 3.5V.
>
> >Others were more adventurous. I think ARP has violated the pin13-most-
> >negative-rule once. And in general, they knew what they were doing:
> >Some of the most impressive circuits built from 3086 BJT and
> >4007 MOSFET arrays.
>
> Hmmm. In that circuit (if the Quadra is what you mean) the pin 13 is
> open. Now, what would happen if one simply can leaves pin 13 open?
> As I see it the insulating diodes between any two collectors would be
> back to back. And no current could flow.
> Would we only need to tie pin 13 to the lowest potential if the fifth
> transistor is actually used in the circuit?
> That could be an alternative interpretation of the datasheet.
>
> Cheers,
>  Ren?
>
> --
> uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
> http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
>
>

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From prototek at optonline.net  Sat Aug 18 18:05:22 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:05:22 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] BBD's and Moogerfooger
Message-ID: <B7A40A82.8612%prototek@optonline.net>

   I vaguely remember bucket brigade chips coming up on this list a few days
ago. Someone stated which well known chip is obsolete and they suggested a
substitute that is still in production. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
   Its funny. Every time I hear about BBD's I remember how I read that Bob
Moog bought the last existing stock for use in his Moogerfooger analog delay
pedals. Does anyone know what he uses? Has anyone ever cracked open a
Moogerfooger filter or delay pedal to see whats going on in there? I'm real
curious as to what Bob is using these days.

               -Proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Sat Aug 18 19:03:22 2001
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:03:22 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
Message-ID: <3b7e9fda.4e94.0@telusplanet.net>

>    What can you build with a 68K???
>
>    In my opinion, the 68000 is the most fun processor to program.  I have
been
>using it for 15 years now.

I have a used but good MC68HC000P10 chip here, pulled from a pcb that was replaced
for Y2K. Man this thing is BIG, 64 pins! Anybody want it?

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From CasioRZ1 at aol.com  Sat Aug 18 19:07:28 2001
From: CasioRZ1 at aol.com (CasioRZ1 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:07:28 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <cc.19976798.28affad0@aol.com>

unsubscribe casiorz1 at aol.com


From Anmgq at cs.com  Sat Aug 18 19:30:30 2001
From: Anmgq at cs.com (Anmgq at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:30:30 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <92.193fe4b3.28b00036@cs.com>

unsubscribe anmgq at cs.com
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From music.maker at gte.net  Sat Aug 18 18:27:39 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:27:39
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
Message-ID: <200108190128.f7J1SnL26759@smtp004.mailsrvcs.net>

I can't tell what part of the planet you live on...
That would help us alot.  The 7808 should be fairly
common.

jlamb3 at nc.rr.com wrote:
>Is it viable to use a 317 type variable voltage regulator as a 
>replacement for a 7808 8v voltage regulator? I'm buliding a PAiA 
>Fatman from someone's botched previous attempt and I can't find 
>this part anywhere, but I do have the variable regulator. Also, 
>any links or advice on performing this procedure would be much 
>appreciated. Also, where can I find resources on building a tape 
>delay box? It doesn't HAVE to be tube-based. ; ) Thanks in 

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Sat Aug 18 22:22:46 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 21:22:46 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
References: <3b7e9fda.4e94.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <00c101c12823$8d7f9680$02da7ad5@paul>

Doug,

> I have a used but good MC68HC000P10 chip here, pulled from a pcb that was
replaced
> for Y2K. Man this thing is BIG, 64 pins! Anybody want it?

beat ya!
I got the 68000CP16 :-)
16Mhz version, and yes its HUGE!!!!

Im hanging onto mine just for the fact Ive never seena bigger DIL chip,
yet...

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From jlamb3 at nc.rr.com  Sat Aug 18 22:35:43 2001
From: jlamb3 at nc.rr.com (John Lamb)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:35:43 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
Message-ID: <MWMail.qfeqbjcs@host.none>

Is it viable to use a 317 type variable voltage regulator as a replacement for a 7808 8v voltage regulator?  
I'm buliding a PAiA Fatman from someone's botched previous attempt and I can't find this part anywhere, 
but I do have the variable regulator.  Also, any links or advice on performing this procedure would be 
much appreciated.

Also, where can I find resources on building a tape delay box?  It doesn't HAVE to be tube-based. ; )

Thanks in advance,
John Lamb



From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Aug 18 23:11:01 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:11:01 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
References: <3b7e9fda.4e94.0@telusplanet.net> <00c101c12823$8d7f9680$02da7ad5@paul>
Message-ID: <3B7ED9E5.1CD82DFF@silcom.com>

    Actually, I think I have one.  It is an early IDT dual port static ram...it
is pretty big, I will go get it right now to test my memory....NEVER MIND!  I
guess your memory of how big things are GROWs with age....



Paul Maddox wrote:

> Doug,
>
> > I have a used but good MC68HC000P10 chip here, pulled from a pcb that was
> replaced
> > for Y2K. Man this thing is BIG, 64 pins! Anybody want it?
>
> beat ya!
> I got the 68000CP16 :-)
> 16Mhz version, and yes its HUGE!!!!
>
> Im hanging onto mine just for the fact Ive never seena bigger DIL chip,
> yet...
>
> Paul Maddox
> _______________________________________
> Wavesynth home page;-
>     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> PPG Synthesizer pages;-
>     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> Waveterm C Project page;-
>     Http://www.waveterm.com

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Sat Aug 18 23:12:29 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:12:29 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to the transformer ground?
Message-ID: <11f.35f521b.28b0343d@aol.com>


Last couple of Power supply's I build I just attached the plug ground to the 
transformer chassis, but the one I have now doesn't have one, 

so do I leave it floating or should I connect it to the 0V output of the 
secondary?

thanks

Ed


From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 18 23:37:24 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:37:24 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
Message-ID: <F19uNY1SWoBDyseVwrb0000b589@hotmail.com>

This may not be correct but one of my math teachers was telling me that he 
though some of the new high-end Texas Instruments calculators were using 68k 
series chips from old Macs.

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
>Reply-To: music.maker at gte.net
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
>Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:40:23
>
>C'mon, you guys that have these gotta do something with them.
>That's a nice CPU.  I've only played with their runt litter
>mates 6800, 6803 and 6809.  Even these can do *something*
>musical.  The 68K line is quantum leaps better.
>
>"Paul Maddox" <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com> wrote:
> >Doug,
> >
> >> I have a used but good MC68HC000P10 chip here, pulled from a pcb that 
>was
> >replaced
> >> for Y2K. Man this thing is BIG, 64 pins! Anybody want it?
> >
> >beat ya!
> >I got the 68000CP16 :-)
> >16Mhz version, and yes its HUGE!!!!
> >
> >Im hanging onto mine just for the fact Ive never seena bigger DIL chip,
> >yet...
> >
> >Paul Maddox
> >_______________________________________
> >Wavesynth home page;-
> >    Http://www.wavesynth.com
> >Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> >    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> >PPG Synthesizer pages;-
> >    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> >Waveterm C Project page;-
> >    Http://www.waveterm.com
> >
> >
>
>=========================================================
>- Government: The other religion.
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
>-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 18 23:56:50 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:56:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
Message-ID: <F120aXQRmRHgwkvfEKA0000b600@hotmail.com>

That actually sounds pretty interesting.  I think with LC oscs you could 
have all sorts of ways to supply voltage to the LC oscs, perhaps creating 
interesting dynamics.  Do LC oscs have a decay time inherant to their 
design?

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: jhaible at t-online.de
>To: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Analog polyphony question
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:32:59 +0200 (MEST)
>
> > Does anyone know if any organs were ever made that had an
> > LC oscillator per
> > key?
>
>Early Korg Ensembles had one Thyristor oscillator per key.
>
>A workmate of mine said he had once started building an organ
>with one LC oscillator per key *and* *harmonic*.
>Each oscillator was one transistor and the LC components.
>A key would gate any number of selected overtones by simply
>switching on the supply voltage for the individual oscillators.
>The idea was that each harmonic would find its own way to
>start oscillating, so the sound would built up in a "natural"
>way (whatever this means - he spoke of emulating a pipe organ).
>He never finished the project ...
>
>JH.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 00:44:04 2001
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:44:04 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
Message-ID: <68.12f5a325.28b049b4@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/18/2001 2:48:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
phdinfunk at hotmail.com writes:


> 
> This may not be correct but one of my math teachers was telling me that he 
> though some of the new high-end Texas Instruments calculators were using 
> 68k 
> series chips from old Macs.
> 
>          

Which means, of course, that _someone_ WILL port linux or netBSD to it.

As far as musical stuff goes, the Yamaha TX16W sampler has a 68000 running it.

-Chris
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From goku at nni.com  Sun Aug 19 01:01:08 2001
From: goku at nni.com (T.J.)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:01:08 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] LIVE Spacemusic
Message-ID: <3B7EF3B4.8B04BB7@nni.com>

Hi Everybody,
 This weekend my band Orbital Decay will be playing a live on air
concert at WXPN 88.5FM in Philly.  WXPN's "Stars End" has been playing
space music for over 25 years now, every sunday morning from 1:00am to
6:00am. A great program of some very electronic music.
 The hour long concert will feature two sequences done live on my
DIY MiniMOTM. We play a style that is similar to Tangerine Dream / Klaus

Schulze. We should begin around 2:00 am Eastern Daylight Time. (Late
Saturday night/ early Sunday morning)
More info at:
http://www.starsend.org/update.html

Not in the Philly area? You can also listen to a live stream at:
http://xpn.org/stream.shtml

Terry









From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 01:21:04 2001
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:21:04 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
Message-ID: <68.12f41965.28b05260@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/18/01 3:51:39 PM, CHoaglin at aol.com writes:

<< As far as musical stuff goes, the Yamaha TX16W sampler has a 68000 running 
it. >>

Also the Sequential Prophet VS and Prophet 3000 sampler, the Ensoniq EPS16 
sampler, and the older Kurzweil modules (PX1000, HX1000, SX1000, etc.).

Michael Bacich



From atom at suspicious.org  Sun Aug 19 01:35:46 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:35:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to the transformer
 ground?
In-Reply-To: <11f.35f521b.28b0343d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108181932260.25692-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

> Last couple of Power supply's I build I just attached the plug ground to the
> transformer chassis, but the one I have now doesn't have one,
>
> so do I leave it floating or should I connect it to the 0V output of the
> secondary?
===============================

this thread could get big.... i know every time i get a new [used] synth,
if it hums, i open it up, and cut the green wire, of the AC.

i'm sure there's a theory that states i'll be electrocuted, but it always
works fine.

this is on a system where the mains wiring is bug-free.

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Generally, news reporting and punditry are
	 respectful of the rich and disdainful of the poor."
		-- Syndicated columnist Norman Solomon




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 02:10:01 2001
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:10:01 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Furby exhibit
Message-ID: <8a.b35c72a.28b05dd9@aol.com>

This was mentioned a few weeks back on the list, but I figured I'd mention it 
again since I actually went to see it yesterday. It's at the DeCordova Museum 
in Lincoln, MA, maybe 20 miles west of Boston. Anybody from the Boston area, 
go check it out, it's well worth the trip.

http://www.decordova.org/decordova/decordova/exhibit/Annual01/3.html

-Chris
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From prototek at optonline.net  Sun Aug 19 03:48:07 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 21:48:07 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
Message-ID: <B7A49317.8633%prototek@optonline.net>

   A friend just gave me all the PCB's from the coin operated Star Wars
Atari game of the early 80's.
   There are 3 boards and one is clearly marked "sound board." I believe the
sound comes from four large "POKEY CO-12294 sound and I/O chip's." Does that
ring a bell with anyone? Do you think there's anything worth pinching from
this board?

                       Cheers,
                       proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Aug 19 03:53:14 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:53:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
References: <MWMail.qfeqbjcs@host.none>
Message-ID: <3B7F1C09.BDFE1860@silcom.com>

    No, it is not a direct replacement, but, with a little effort, it could be.

    However, 7808 are availiable from Mouser, http://www.mouser.com, and Jameco (try them first),
http://www.jameco.com.  Mouser is best place for bulk deals.  I can't remember what their onesy-twosy policies
are, but I get stuff from both compaines, as well as Digikey, http://www.digikey.com.

    Of course, I am assuming you are in the states.  If you are in europe, I will leave it to the europeans to
stear you to the correct place....

John Lamb wrote:

> Is it viable to use a 317 type variable voltage regulator as a replacement for a 7808 8v voltage regulator?
> I'm buliding a PAiA Fatman from someone's botched previous attempt and I can't find this part anywhere,
> but I do have the variable regulator.  Also, any links or advice on performing this procedure would be
> much appreciated.
>
> Also, where can I find resources on building a tape delay box?  It doesn't HAVE to be tube-based. ; )
>
> Thanks in advance,
> John Lamb

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From atom at suspicious.org  Sun Aug 19 04:53:29 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:53:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
In-Reply-To: <200108190128.f7J1SnL26759@smtp004.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108182235170.27486-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

> I can't tell what part of the planet you live on...
> That would help us alot.  The 7808 should be fairly
> common.
===================================

even easier to find, would be a 7805.

an old trick of mine, for getting weird (uncommon) voltages, is to take a
78xx regulator, and add a resistor in series with the "ground" pin. this
can be used to get a few extra volts from the regulator.

it's been a while, but i think a few hundred ohms does the trick.
(the more restance, the higher the output voltage.)

when i was in school, i tested it out thouroughly, and the regulation
seems to not be adversly affected, over a wide range of currents.

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"In every respect, vegans appear to enjoy equal or better
	 health in comparison to both vegetarians and non-vegetarians."
		-- T. Colin Campbell,
		PhD Professor of Nutrition, Cornell University




From CCartCat at aol.com  Sun Aug 19 05:16:17 2001
From: CCartCat at aol.com (CCartCat at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:16:17 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Furby exhibit
Message-ID: <a7.12814ef4.28b08981@aol.com>

Just curious:  What did you think of it?

Back to lurking,
Kevin


In a message dated 8/18/01 8:13:04 PM, you wrote:

<<This was mentioned a few weeks back on the list, but I figured I'd mention 
it 
again since I actually went to see it yesterday. It's at the DeCordova Museum 
in Lincoln, MA, maybe 20 miles west of Boston. Anybody from the Boston area, 
go check it out, it's well worth the trip.

http://www.decordova.org/decordova/decordova/exhibit/Annual01/3.html

-Chris
>>



From mclilith at ezwv.com  Sun Aug 19 05:31:37 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:31:37 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
In-Reply-To: <B7A49317.8633%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010818231946.016296c0@mail.ezwv.com>

At 09:48 PM 8/18/01 , Prototek wrote: 
>
>    A friend just gave me all the PCB's from the coin operated Star Wars Atari
> game of the early 80's.
>    There are 3 boards and one is clearly marked "sound board." I believe the
> sound comes from four large "POKEY CO-12294 sound and I/O chip's." Does that
> ring a bell with anyone? Do you think there's anything worth pinching from
> this board?



I can tell you is that "Pokey" was also the code name of the sound generating
chip used in the Atari 400 and 800 computers. It was also used in a lot of
their other 8-bit personal computers as well. Whether it is compatible with the
"Pokey" chip you have, I couldn't say. The personal computers only contained a
single "Pokey" chip, which generated all the sounds on these computers.

I'm not sure if anyone has ever built a Synth-DIY project with Atari's Pokey
chip before. I hear a lot about Commodore's SID chip being used today for
music, but that's about it, as far as recycling old computer parts for synth
projects is concerned.

Later,
Glen


From synth1 at airmail.net  Sun Aug 19 05:47:25 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:47:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] More MOTM woodwind demos
Message-ID: <001101c12861$a92caa60$71765140@speakeasy.net>

See

www.synthtech.com/news

for 2 new Ken Elhardt woodwind patches (ROMpler in the background). Both use
a Yamaha BC-3 breath controller
into a MIDI-CV converter, smooothed by a MOTM-820 VC Lag processor. These,
and the 2 brass patches below
on the page, are simply amazing.

Paul S.




From mclilith at ezwv.com  Sun Aug 19 05:54:14 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:54:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Amiga computer parts for Synth-DIY?
In-Reply-To: <B7A49317.8633%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010818233306.01227f10@mail.ezwv.com>

I've ended up with a computer board from some model of Amiga computer (I
have no idea which model, and I know nothing about an Amiga, in general). I
was wondering if any of the chips would be useful for sound generation in
some sort of Synth-DIY style project? 

Here are numbers from some of the large chips:

  MOS 8361R5
  MOS 8362R6
  MOS 8364R4
  MOS 8520A-1

  MC68010L8

I know that last number is a Motorola CPU, but I don't know anything about
the MOS chips. Does anyone know anything about the MOS numbered parts?
Would one of them be for sound generation by any chance? This board has a
yellow RCA jack labeled "NTSC". It also has a pair of RCA jacks that I
assume are for left and right audio outputs. (These are colored white and
red, respectively, and labeled "L" and "R".)

I'm trying to decide if there is anything I want to scavenge from this
board, or whether to simply toss the whole board away. I might want the MOS
chips, if I could get any data on them.

Thanks,
Glen


From matti at devo.com  Sun Aug 19 06:45:54 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:45:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108182235170.27486-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108190041380.27194-100000@whipit.devo.com>

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, Atom 'Smasher' wrote:
>
> an old trick of mine, for getting weird (uncommon) voltages, is to take a
> 78xx regulator, and add a resistor in series with the "ground" pin. this
> can be used to get a few extra volts from the regulator.


errr, what about using diodes to get that right voltage? Wouldn't the use
of resistors depend on the current draw to determine just how much voltage
is added?


 -
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From prototek at optonline.net  Sun Aug 19 07:35:35 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:35:35 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol and CEM based phasers
Message-ID: <B7A4C867.8648%prototek@optonline.net>

   I remember someone saying they used a few CEM3320 VCF chips to make a
phaser. If that person is reading this, please contact me. I'd like some
details, etc....
   Also, has anyone built the Vactrol based phaser from Barry Klein's book?
In the comment section of hi book he says it sounds weak in comparison to a
MXR Phase 100. I'm curious about this circuit.

                                   -proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From atom at suspicious.org  Sun Aug 19 07:47:49 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:47:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108190041380.27194-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108190137370.11113-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

> > an old trick of mine, for getting weird (uncommon) voltages, is to take a
> > 78xx regulator, and add a resistor in series with the "ground" pin. this
> > can be used to get a few extra volts from the regulator.
>
> errr, what about using diodes to get that right voltage? Wouldn't the use
> of resistors depend on the current draw to determine just how much voltage
> is added?
==============================

you can use diodes, in series with the "ground" pin, and take advantage of
the forward voltage drop.

it's been a while, and i forget, but for some reason i remember that the
voltage between the pin, and the "real" ground is not the same as the
difference between the advertsed and the actual voltage at the output.
(ie: a silicon doide, with a 0.7V drop, and a 7805, won't give an output
of 5.7V.... however, that's if i remember correctly... i sometimes don't.
anyway, for most purposes, it's easier to figure out what value resistor
to use, and use only one, than to string together several diodes.)

however, the current through the "ground" pin on the 78xx regulators
changes only trivially, while the output current goes from zero to max.
this means that you can use a resistor, and the voltage across it will not
change significantly.
that's the key that makes the trick work.

        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Pick battles important enough to fight
	 and small enough to win."
		-- Johnathan Kozol




From prototek at optonline.net  Sun Aug 19 09:44:00 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:44:00 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010818231946.016296c0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <B7A4E67F.864B%prototek@optonline.net>


> I can tell you is that "Pokey" was also the code name of the sound generating
> chip used in the Atari 400 and 800 computers. It was also used in a lot of
> their other 8-bit personal computers as well. Whether it is compatible with
> the
> "Pokey" chip you have, I couldn't say. The personal computers only contained a
> single "Pokey" chip, which generated all the sounds on these computers.
> 
> I'm not sure if anyone has ever built a Synth-DIY project with Atari's Pokey
> chip before. I hear a lot about Commodore's SID chip being used today for
> music, but that's about it, as far as recycling old computer parts for synth
> projects is concerned.
> 
> Later,
> Glen

   Believe it or not I was able to seek out a "POKEY" datasheet. The "Pokey"
is indeed the CO-12294 I was speaking of. The datasheet was a 50 page pdf
and quite frankly was way over my head for the most part. I understood the
basics of the chip but I still cant figure out if it would be a do-able
project. The chip seems to have 4 voices on it from what I gathered. I'll
gladly e-mail the pdf to anyone interested.
   Theres a web page that has various old school video/computer game sound
chips for sale. I didnt even recognize most of them but maybe someone will
have use for it: http://www.multigame.com

               -proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From bigtex at cwnet.com  Sun Aug 19 10:49:45 2001
From: bigtex at cwnet.com (Tavys Ashcroft)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:49:45 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] band reject filter
Message-ID: <v04220805b7a52d66882f@[209.209.112.179]>

I've noticed that using a band reject filter (I use negative gain on 
a parametric equalizer) and sweeping the frequency sounds a lot like 
a low resonance phaser.  Is this due to the negative interference of 
a phaser cutting out different frequencies as it comes in and out of 
phase?  How exactly does a phaser work, anyway?

-Tavys


From colinf at ntlworld.com  Sun Aug 19 11:23:23 2001
From: colinf at ntlworld.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:23:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
In-Reply-To: <B7A49317.8633%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <000801c12890$982be620$c5a0ff3e@mshome.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Prototek
> Sent: 19 August 2001 02:48
> To: Synth_diy
> Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
>
>
>    A friend just gave me all the PCB's from the coin operated
> Star Wars Atari game of the early 80's.
>    There are 3 boards and one is clearly marked "sound
> board." I believe the sound comes from four large "POKEY
> CO-12294 sound and I/O chip's." Does that ring a bell with
> anyone? Do you think there's anything worth pinching from this board?

A working set of Star Wars PCBs will easily fetch $100.
Please don't go scrapping them unless you're sure they're beyond repair.

Imagine some thread on an 8-bit computer DIY list along the lines of 'A
friend gave me the PCBs from an 80's Prophet 5 synthesizer - is it worth
ripping the Z80 processor off this ?'


Colin f



From prototek at optonline.net  Sun Aug 19 11:26:56 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 05:26:56 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
In-Reply-To: <000801c12890$982be620$c5a0ff3e@mshome.net>
Message-ID: <B7A4FEA0.8656%prototek@optonline.net>


>> A friend just gave me all the PCB's from the coin operated
>> Star Wars Atari game of the early 80's.
>> There are 3 boards and one is clearly marked "sound
>> board." I believe the sound comes from four large "POKEY
>> CO-12294 sound and I/O chip's." Does that ring a bell with
>> anyone? Do you think there's anything worth pinching from this board?
> 
> A working set of Star Wars PCBs will easily fetch $100.
> Please don't go scrapping them unless you're sure they're beyond repair.
> 
> Imagine some thread on an 8-bit computer DIY list along the lines of 'A
> friend gave me the PCBs from an 80's Prophet 5 synthesizer - is it worth
> ripping the Z80 processor off this ?'
> 
> 
> Colin f
> 

    I respect and share this point of view. I was just curious what it is
capable of. Didn't mean to ruffle and 8-bit feathers :)
        
                -proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 



From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug 19 11:30:29 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:30:29 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] band reject filter
Message-ID: <E15YOxI-000NmX-0K@tele-post-20.mail.demon.net>

                                                    

----------
>From: Tavys Ashcroft <bigtex at cwnet.com>
>To: Synth-DIY list <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: [sdiy] band reject filter
>Date: Sun, Aug 19, 2001, 9:49 am
>

> I've noticed that using a band reject filter (I use negative gain on
> a parametric equalizer) and sweeping the frequency sounds a lot like
> a low resonance phaser.  Is this due to the negative interference of
> a phaser cutting out different frequencies as it comes in and out of
> phase?  How exactly does a phaser work, anyway?
>
> -Tavys
A phaser is one or more notch filters, that have there frequency swept up
and down by an LFO, so what you were doing is essentially making a very
crude phaser.

Seb Carr


From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Sun Aug 19 11:38:39 2001
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Chris)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:38:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010818231946.016296c0@mail.ezwv.com>
References: <B7A49317.8633%prototek@optonline.net> <4.1.20010818231946.016296c0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <sv1vnt8tf4hmavb54fkdsl5ci3d9k7jm87@4ax.com>

The Pokey chips have equivalent numbers of AY-3-8910 and AY-3-8912
here in the UK. These chips create sound using data from a bus, so I
would say unless you are using a CPU I doubt they'd be any use.

Older games are usually good for getting bits off - Most will have a
SN76477 on them, and perhaps that CA chip that is used often as a VCA
(forget the number).

Christian

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:31:37 -0400, you wrote:

>At 09:48 PM 8/18/01 , Prototek wrote: 
>>
>>    A friend just gave me all the PCB's from the coin operated Star Wars Atari
>> game of the early 80's.
>>    There are 3 boards and one is clearly marked "sound board." I believe the
>> sound comes from four large "POKEY CO-12294 sound and I/O chip's." Does that
>> ring a bell with anyone? Do you think there's anything worth pinching from
>> this board?
>
>
>
>I can tell you is that "Pokey" was also the code name of the sound generating
>chip used in the Atari 400 and 800 computers. It was also used in a lot of
>their other 8-bit personal computers as well. Whether it is compatible with the
>"Pokey" chip you have, I couldn't say. The personal computers only contained a
>single "Pokey" chip, which generated all the sounds on these computers.
>
>I'm not sure if anyone has ever built a Synth-DIY project with Atari's Pokey
>chip before. I hear a lot about Commodore's SID chip being used today for
>music, but that's about it, as far as recycling old computer parts for synth
>projects is concerned.
>
>Later,
>Glen
>



From massann at tin.it  Sun Aug 19 11:59:37 2001
From: massann at tin.it (massann at tin.it)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:59:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <MWMail.ntaeigap@host.none>

unsubscribe massann at tin.it



From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Aug 19 16:45:10 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 07:45:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108190137370.11113-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <3B7FD0F6.801F2820@silcom.com>



Atom 'Smasher' wrote:

> > > an old trick of mine, for getting weird (uncommon) voltages, is to take a
> > > 78xx regulator, and add a resistor in series with the "ground" pin. this
> > > can be used to get a few extra volts from the regulator.
> >
> > errr, what about using diodes to get that right voltage? Wouldn't the use
> > of resistors depend on the current draw to determine just how much voltage
> > is added?
> ==============================
>
> you can use diodes, in series with the "ground" pin, and take advantage of
> the forward voltage drop.
>
> it's been a while, and i forget, but for some reason i remember that the
> voltage between the pin, and the "real" ground is not the same as the
> difference between the advertsed and the actual voltage at the output.
> (ie: a silicon doide, with a 0.7V drop, and a 7805, won't give an output
> of 5.7V.... however, that's if i remember correctly... i sometimes don't.
> anyway, for most purposes, it's easier to figure out what value resistor
> to use, and use only one, than to string together several diodes.)
>

    No, adding a diode in the ground leg of a three terminal regulator will raise
it by one diode drop.  I used to do this all the time when I needed a 5.6 volt
supply.  The exact voltage you get may vary depending on the diode.  Remember,
the lower the diode current, the lower the diode voltage drop, but, it is an
exponential function.

    I have also used zener diodes in the ground leg.  Like if I need a 10 volt
regulator, you put a 5 volt zener in the ground leg of a 5 volt regulator.

>
> however, the current through the "ground" pin on the 78xx regulators
> changes only trivially, while the output current goes from zero to max.
> this means that you can use a resistor, and the voltage across it will not
> change significantly.
> that's the key that makes the trick work.
>
>         ...atom
>
> ----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
> http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
>
>         "Pick battles important enough to fight
>          and small enough to win."
>                 -- Johnathan Kozol

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug 19 17:05:53 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:05:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Compressor schematic
Message-ID: <E15YUD1-0002EF-0C@finch-post-12.mail.demon.net>

Hi all, a few queries:
1- I have designed a fairly simple compressor, and i was wondering if any of
the more experienced people on this list would e willing to take a quick
look at it, and let me know of any stupid mistakes/flaws /shortcomings that
are instantly obvious to them, maybe suggest the odd improvement/ parts
change/ different values etc.

2-People say the 5532 op amp is not unity gain stable (therefore no use at
all as a basic unity buffer). what does not unity gain stable actually mean,
and can anyone suggest something else that is unity gain stable, but is
equally low noise?

3-Can anyone suggest a general purpose, low noise, low power npn transistor
for audio that would happily run off 30v supply, is available in the UK,
doesn't cost much etc for general experimentation and use.

thanks all

Seb Carr


From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug 19 17:47:24 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:47:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
Message-ID: <E15YUqB-000MdL-0U@anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net>

                            


> 
>     I have also used zener diodes in the ground leg.  Like if I need a 10 volt
> regulator, you put a 5 volt zener in the ground leg of a 5 volt regulator.
>
>
>
Up to what point does this work e.g. could i put a 43.0v zener in the ground
leg of a 5v regulator to get a 48v supply for phantom power, or is this
taking things way too far?

Thanks

Seb Carr


From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Sun Aug 19 18:59:40 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:59:40 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] PPG2002
Message-ID: <001a01c128d0$577b6de0$66587ad5@paul>

Dear all,

  We can now let you know the date and venue for the next PPG event..
 16th Febuary in Birmingham, at 'The Clock' which is the same venue as this
years.

  This event is free to anyone who wants to come. There is a hotel not far
from the venue for those comming a long way.

  Lets hope this year we can get more people to come :-)

In the meantime,  heres the page, we'll update it as things happen..

http://www.ppg2002.wavesynth.com/

I hope to see you all soon..

Many thanks
Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com





From mclilith at ezwv.com  Sun Aug 19 19:09:06 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:09:06 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
References: <B7A4E67F.864B%prototek@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3B7FF2B1.CFBC3B97@ezwv.com>



Prototek wrote:

  Believe it or not I was able to seek out a "POKEY" datasheet. The
"Pokey" is indeed the CO-12294 I was speaking of. The datasheet was a 50
page pdf and quite frankly was way over my head for the most part. I
understood the basics of the chip but I still cant figure out if it
would be a do-able project. The chip seems to have 4 voices on it from
what I gathered. I'll gladly e-mail the pdf to anyone interested.

>    Theres a web page that has various old school video/computer game
> sound chips for sale. I didnt even recognize most of them but maybe
> someone will have use for it: http://www.multigame.com
>

I'd like to get a copy of that PDF file, if you don't mind. I have a few
old Atari computers laying around, along with some spare parts as well.
I have lots of technical data about these machines including full
schematics, and the assembly language source code for the machine's
internal ROMs! Can you believe that Atari actually sold that information
through retail stores? They did. If only modern PC's had that much
documentation available. Just as nice, I wish synth makers would divulge
the source code and schematics for all the computers used inside all the
synths.

Anyway, I've never seen a 50 page spec written just for the Pokey chip.
I'd really like to get a look at that.

Thanks,
Glen




From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Sun Aug 19 19:21:28 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:21:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] cheapest DIY phaser. Was: band reject filter.
Message-ID: <l03110704b7a5a61031d3@[213.84.92.34]>

Phasers are everywhere...
>> I've noticed that using a band reject filter (I use negative gain on
>> a parametric equalizer) and sweeping the frequency sounds a lot like
>> a low resonance phaser.  Is this due to the negative interference of
>> a phaser cutting out different frequencies as it comes in and out of
>> phase?  How exactly does a phaser work, anyway?
>>
>> -Tavys
>A phaser is one or more notch filters, that have there frequency swept up
>and down by an LFO, so what you were doing is essentially making a very
>crude phaser.
>
>Seb Carr

In a phaser, a delayed signal is added to the original.
The delay is tiny, you usually want it less then a wavelength of the input.

While adding a delay over an original, you'll end up having a pattern
of frequencies that are cancelled out, and added in.
This happens, because a certain frequency might be delayed just so much
that it appears to be the opposite of it's original. If this happens at -say-
300Hz, It will also happen at 600, 900, 1200, etc... if the phaser behaves
according to the books.
This is called a combfilter.  _/\/\/\/\/\/\

As the ear perceives patterns rather then actual frequencies, the
'distance' between the cancellations is audible as a tone.
so if there's a 300Hz distance between each cancellation, you'll hear
that tone, and not 600, 900, 1200, or higher.

But if the phasing is not to heavy, it will be perceived as something else.
If someone is speaking to you at some distance from a wall, you'll hear the
voice directly and reflected via the wall, which is thus delayed.
And yes, here is a combfilter as well. But you do not perceive it as such,
nor would you perceive it as a tone. Your brain reworks it into a spatial
3D image of a room with a soundsource in it, and -alas- doesn't lecture
your concience with mathematical thoughts on combfilters.

But as soon as the speaking person starts moving about, you might hear
the combs shifting, you might start hearing not only a moving soundsource
in a space, but also the fenomena itself: combfilters, phasing.
And if it happens real close, you'll notice the comb is a tone.

If you can't talk the speaking person into banging his head to the wall,
you can also fix the distance of the speaker to your ears
and move the reflecting wall at a close distance:
Move your hand to and away from your mouth while you sing.
If you'll do it slow, you'll hear your hand a moving. If you do
it fast, you just made the cheapest DIY phaser.


Dave Krooshof




Ps.1
Bigger hands phase better. You can use cd cases or books as
hand extensions. Do it alone and switch off the webcam, people
might think you're going mad.




Ps.2
Take care: You'll might start noticing that you can hear trees and
streetlights as you pass them by the filtercharacteristics of their
reflections. You can't tell anyone about it as people will think you're
mad. (It all started when he began discussing his synth on the web)








Ps.3
"I'm not mad, I was f.i. never aware of moving combfilters while making love.
Come to think of it, your voice must be phasing while at it. So this is why
http://www.till.com/articles/moog/patents.html#US03800088 sounds so
intimate"








http://www.combfiltersociety.org/psycology-tragedies/freedavenow.html









http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Aug 19 20:00:51 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:00:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Compressor schematic
References: <E15YUD1-0002EF-0C@finch-post-12.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c128e0$c5e09660$a41587d9@default>

>People say the 5532 op amp is not unity gain stable...

Its stable at unity and can be used as a follower. But its single
brother, the 5534, is not unless you add a little cap or RC network to
the compensation pins. Its a bit of a power hungry devil though, and the
OP275 is better, but more expensive.

>Can anyone suggest a general purpose, low noise, low power npn
transistor for audio that would happily run off 30v supply...

The BC549 is my favourite. Alternatively the BC550 will suffice.

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From media at mail1.nai.net  Sun Aug 19 20:17:54 2001
From: media at mail1.nai.net (media at mail1.nai.net)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:17:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to the transformer
 ground?
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108181932260.25692-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
References: <11f.35f521b.28b0343d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v03130303b7a56191f2fc@208.58.251.39>


>> Last couple of Power supply's I build I just attached the plug ground to
>>>> the transformer chassis, but the one I have now doesn't have one,

It doesn't have a chassis??

>> so do I leave it floating or should I connect it to the 0V output of the
>> secondary?

Since no one else answered this, I would not connect the "plug ground" to
the common of the secondary -- I can't imagine how it could help anything,
and it may cause a ground loop or other problems.

>this thread could get big.... i know every time i get a new [used] synth,
>if it hums, i open it up, and cut the green wire, of the AC.

The reason why your new synths are humming, and you end up cutting the
earth every time, is because you did it the first time.  While the key to
avoiding ground loops is consistency, floating the mains is a foolish
consistency.  It is a last resort that should only be done in the heat of
battle.  You should reconnect the green wires, and find a less dangerous
solution to your problem.  By eliminating the earth grounds you are raising
your noise floor and tempting fate.





From mclilith at ezwv.com  Sun Aug 19 20:36:21 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:36:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
References: <B7A49317.8633%prototek@optonline.net> <4.1.20010818231946.016296c0@mail.ezwv.com> <sv1vnt8tf4hmavb54fkdsl5ci3d9k7jm87@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B800725.A19A7AE2@ezwv.com>



Chris wrote:

> The Pokey chips have equivalent numbers of AY-3-8910 and AY-3-8912
> here in the UK. These chips create sound using data from a bus, so I
> would say unless you are using a CPU I doubt they'd be any use.

Yes, a CPU of some sort would be required. Either a dedicated controller, or perhaps
interface the chip to a personal computer, perhaps in a manner similar to the
Parallel Port SID project.

Later,
Glen



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Sun Aug 19 20:46:57 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:46:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] cheapest DIY phaser. Was: band reject filter.
References: <l03110704b7a5a61031d3@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <004901c128df$59c0a520$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

Works to about 35V, 25-30V to be safe. Work on  the 340/320 pair.
Makes a simple dual regulated supply. Use a 5K pots and it's variable 
+/-5 to +/-25...

Tom
 


> Phasers are everywhere...
> >> I've noticed that using a band reject filter (I use negative gain on
> >> a parametric equalizer) and sweeping the frequency sounds a lot like
> >> a low resonance phaser.  Is this due to the negative interference of
> >> a phaser cutting out different frequencies as it comes in and out of
> >> phase?  How exactly does a phaser work, anyway?
> >>
> >> -Tavys
> >A phaser is one or more notch filters, that have there frequency swept up
> >and down by an LFO, so what you were doing is essentially making a very
> >crude phaser.
> >
> >Seb Carr
> 
> In a phaser, a delayed signal is added to the original.
> The delay is tiny, you usually want it less then a wavelength of the input.
> 
> While adding a delay over an original, you'll end up having a pattern
> of frequencies that are cancelled out, and added in.
> This happens, because a certain frequency might be delayed just so much
> that it appears to be the opposite of it's original. If this happens at -say-
> 300Hz, It will also happen at 600, 900, 1200, etc... if the phaser behaves
> according to the books.
> This is called a combfilter.  _/\/\/\/\/\/\
> 
> As the ear perceives patterns rather then actual frequencies, the
> 'distance' between the cancellations is audible as a tone.
> so if there's a 300Hz distance between each cancellation, you'll hear
> that tone, and not 600, 900, 1200, or higher.
> 
> But if the phasing is not to heavy, it will be perceived as something else.
> If someone is speaking to you at some distance from a wall, you'll hear the
> voice directly and reflected via the wall, which is thus delayed.
> And yes, here is a combfilter as well. But you do not perceive it as such,
> nor would you perceive it as a tone. Your brain reworks it into a spatial
> 3D image of a room with a soundsource in it, and -alas- doesn't lecture
> your concience with mathematical thoughts on combfilters.
> 
> But as soon as the speaking person starts moving about, you might hear
> the combs shifting, you might start hearing not only a moving soundsource
> in a space, but also the fenomena itself: combfilters, phasing.
> And if it happens real close, you'll notice the comb is a tone.
> 
> If you can't talk the speaking person into banging his head to the wall,
> you can also fix the distance of the speaker to your ears
> and move the reflecting wall at a close distance:
> Move your hand to and away from your mouth while you sing.
> If you'll do it slow, you'll hear your hand a moving. If you do
> it fast, you just made the cheapest DIY phaser.
> 
> 
> Dave Krooshof
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ps.1
> Bigger hands phase better. You can use cd cases or books as
> hand extensions. Do it alone and switch off the webcam, people
> might think you're going mad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ps.2
> Take care: You'll might start noticing that you can hear trees and
> streetlights as you pass them by the filtercharacteristics of their
> reflections. You can't tell anyone about it as people will think you're
> mad. (It all started when he began discussing his synth on the web)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ps.3
> "I'm not mad, I was f.i. never aware of moving combfilters while making love.
> Come to think of it, your voice must be phasing while at it. So this is why
> http://www.till.com/articles/moog/patents.html#US03800088 sounds so
> intimate"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.combfiltersociety.org/psycology-tragedies/freedavenow.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
> 
> 



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Aug 19 20:49:04 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:49:04 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Theremin Movie
References: <3B7DED38.DD2B9F6B@silcom.com> <001301c127a8$ff9c31e0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3B800A1F.BEF4D35B@prodigy.net>

I'll ask the question again...

The copy I rented said
"This copy is changed from the original, it has been formatted to fit
your screen and edited for content..."

edited for CONTENT ??? By who... the KGB....???
and for WHAT ?  Something net nanny does not want us to know ????

(anyone know... what'd i miss ???)

H^) harry

"tomg at efm" wrote:

> It was seeing that movie that was the inspiration for the LDR Theremin
> I woke up one night and there it was in my head...worked the first
> time....excellent stuff that movie...;-)
>
> Tom
>
> >     I just finally got to see this movie...I can't remember if it was
> > somebody on this list who mentioned it, or I saw something about it
> > somewhere else...
> >
> >     For those who have not seen this movie...Get IT!  NOW! I command
> > you!  It is a documentary on the life of Leon Theremin.  It includes
> > interviews with Clara Rockmore, Leon Theremin (he was still alive when
> > the movie was made), several other associates of his whose names escape
> > me.  Plus, interviews with Rober Moog, Brian Wilson (they could have
> > skipped him, he was slightly less than lucid), plus some old movie clips
> > that used the Theremin, including the Jerry Lewis movie where Jerry has
> > a close encounter with a Theremin.
> >
> >     I am going to have to listen to this movie again tomorrow night.  I
> > could have sworn I heard Clara Rockmore say something to the effect that
> > the Moog Theremin was inferior....
> >
> >     The name of the movie is "Theremin An Electronic Odyssey" from Avant
> > Garde Cinema (MGM).
> >
> > --
> >  -Jim



From Randallx at bellatlantic.net  Sun Aug 19 21:01:12 2001
From: Randallx at bellatlantic.net (Randall Willms)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:01:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <B7A58538.53C6%Randallx@bellatlantic.net>

unsubscribe Randallx at bellatlantic.net 


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Aug 19 21:06:53 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:06:53 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to the transformerground?
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108181932260.25692-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <3B800E4C.5612252F@prodigy.net>

HowD Atom (et al)

In prectice I agree with Atom here... what will really happen in most cases
is that if there is a bad fault... the fault current (15-20A) will follow the
audio cables instead until it can find a place that HAS a safety ground...

This may trash other gear as well... OTOH you have a good chance of
having a MUCH quieter system without all those ground connections.

I suggest two alternatives...
1: Use "cheater" plugs  (3 wire to 2 wire) on the AC cord instead of cutting
the wire internally.  You can opt in or out of the more safe connection as needed.

2: Make a special extension cable.  I have one with 12 gauge AC cable, and i
bolted
2 4"x4" utility boxes together... so I have 8 good solid outlets on the same
cord...
with all the grounds tied at that point.  Plug ALL your gear into that one strip
and you
will usually be quiet as a mouse. The ground wire problem is most evident whan you

plug into outlets across the room.  If I need to cross the room... I plug the
extension into that common point.

H^)  harry

This is USA 120VAC advise.  Get another opinion for 240 (europe)


Atom 'Smasher' wrote:

> > Last couple of Power supply's I build I just attached the plug ground to the
> > transformer chassis, but the one I have now doesn't have one,
> >
> > so do I leave it floating or should I connect it to the 0V output of the
> > secondary?
> ===============================
>
> this thread could get big.... i know every time i get a new [used] synth,
> if it hums, i open it up, and cut the green wire, of the AC.
>
> i'm sure there's a theory that states i'll be electrocuted, but it always
> works fine.
>
> this is on a system where the mains wiring is bug-free.
>
>         ...atom
>
> ----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
> http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
>
>         "Generally, news reporting and punditry are
>          respectful of the rich and disdainful of the poor."
>                 -- Syndicated columnist Norman Solomon



From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun Aug 19 22:02:22 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:02:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
References: <E15YUqB-000MdL-0U@anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <005e01c128e9$dc80bcc0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

This trick is often used in high voltage supplies for tubes.
The thing is to keep the input ripple in the range the regulator can handle.
Also a 5V regulator would need a fairly low ripple to start with.

Theo

From: Seb Carr <star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk>

>
>
>
> >
> >     I have also used zener diodes in the ground leg.  Like if I need a
10 volt
> > regulator, you put a 5 volt zener in the ground leg of a 5 volt
regulator.
> >
> >
> >
> Up to what point does this work e.g. could i put a 43.0v zener in the
ground
> leg of a 5v regulator to get a 48v supply for phantom power, or is this
> taking things way too far?
>
> Thanks
>
> Seb Carr



From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Mon Aug 20 01:38:57 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 01:38:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Theremin Movie
In-Reply-To: <3B800A1F.BEF4D35B@prodigy.net>
References: <3B7DED38.DD2B9F6B@silcom.com>
 <001301c127a8$ff9c31e0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <l0311070bb7a5fd4dbe07@[213.84.92.34]>

>I'll ask the question again...
>
>The copy I rented said
>"This copy is changed from the original, it has been formatted to fit
>your screen and edited for content..."
>
>edited for CONTENT ??? By who... the KGB....???
>and for WHAT ?  Something net nanny does not want us to know ????
>
>(anyone know... what'd i miss ???)

That may verywell be.
Thermen was kept prisoner for years (12 if  I remeber correctly)
because he had anti communist sympathies, and because the wanted to
get his knowledge.
Meanwhile 'home' knew nothing about that. He was reported 'missing'.
So he actually was a missing person, not a known political prisoner.
I do not suppose he had a trial.
So yes, I do guess KGB, or another governmental body does have reasons
to keep some information away from the public.


Dave

----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
-------------------------------------- >^v< -----




From bigtex at cwnet.com  Mon Aug 20 02:28:32 2001
From: bigtex at cwnet.com (Tavys Ashcroft)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:28:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DC offset amplifier?
Message-ID: <v04220800b7a60973c6a7@[209.142.56.129]>

I'm working on an LFO to use as CV for a VCO (I need more acronyms in 
there), and I want to have a variable DC offset for the output of the 
LFO.  I'll be using that to control the pitch of the VCO, so I want 
my LFO's wave to be riding on a variable DC voltage.  What's the best 
way to go about doing this?  Should I sum the LFO's output with the 
output of a DC amplifier...?

-Tavys


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Mon Aug 20 02:46:14 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:46:14 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] How do I....... ?
In-Reply-To: <v04220800b7a309d14439@[213.112.172.196]>
References: <20010816.145803.-1928231.1.apogeesunset@juno.com>
	<v04220800b7a309d14439@[213.112.172.196]>
Message-ID: <20010820024614S.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Thomas Kahn <thomas at roundhouse.se>
Subject: Re:[sdiy] How do I....... ?
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:02:30 +0200

> If you have schematics that you want converted into
> PDF format and don't know how, I can help you with
> that. The image has to be in a format that I can
> use to create a PDF though; preferably an EPS or
> an Adobe Illustrator file, but a large GIF, JPEG,
> BMP or TIFF will do.

BMP is not acceptable.

> Second best is an image format for the WWW - GIF,
> JPEG or PNG. Avoid PNG if you want to reach people
> with older browsers. Don't get me wrong - it's an
> excellent image format, but older browsers don't
> support it.

BMP is not widly acceptable either.

To the best of my knowledge not too many browsers will eat TIFF, and
if they do, will they eat your TIFF file? TIFF is for good and bad, a
format with many options.

Cheers,
Magnus



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Mon Aug 20 03:39:44 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 03:39:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
In-Reply-To: <200108182041.f7IKfnW27866@smtp007.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <200108182041.f7IKfnW27866@smtp007.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <20010820033944P.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:40:23

> C'mon, you guys that have these gotta do something with them.
> That's a nice CPU.  I've only played with their runt litter
> mates 6800, 6803 and 6809.  Even these can do *something*
> musical.  The 68K line is quantum leaps better.

I've got 5 CPU cards out of old HP 9000/300 series computers.
4 of these are 68030 at 25 MHz with 68881 and 1 is 68030 at 20 MHz
68881. I've got those from a friend who personally took them over from
the US just to give me. I naturally intend to put them into a musical
use some rainy day (hmm... authum is coming closer).

How about 4 "voice cards" and one for "front end stuff"?

I just need to build myself a bus-card for these, add memory and the
necessary I/O stuff. I guess one memory card and one IO card has to be
built.

I still want to do a nice little 68k project. It seems like a nice
architecture, but I grew up with 6502 and later 8088/8086 stuff to be
followed by an 80386 (which I saw on my friends wall this evening),
486 etc. so I have still to quiet down my curisoity for the 68k.

Cheers,
Magnus



From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Aug 20 03:47:04 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 03:47:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] How do I....... ?
References: <20010816.145803.-1928231.1.apogeesunset@juno.com><v04220800b7a309d14439@[213.112.172.196]> <20010820024614S.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <002901c1291a$037e9380$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

IMHO this little rule is a good one.
If its a vector drawing use a postscript variant (EPS or PDF or...)
If its a bitmap with few colors =<16 use GIF
If its a bit map with more colors use JPEG

TIFF only makes sense for hires photo images that need to be lossless,
usually this kind of TIFFs are RGB or worse CMYK bitmaps.
Big bulky and completely useless for schematics.
Some scanners give out uncompressed B/W or color TIFF, _please_ convert them
to a more appropriate format (gif/jpeg).
Also, including a bitmap TIFF into a PDF does just that; includes.
You end up with a big ugly bitmap in a postscript envelope.
Same holds for including gif or jpeg.

Me 2 cnts,
Theo


From: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>



> From: Thomas Kahn <thomas at roundhouse.se>
> Subject: Re:[sdiy] How do I....... ?
> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:02:30 +0200
>
> > If you have schematics that you want converted into
> > PDF format and don't know how, I can help you with
> > that. The image has to be in a format that I can
> > use to create a PDF though; preferably an EPS or
> > an Adobe Illustrator file, but a large GIF, JPEG,
> > BMP or TIFF will do.
>
> BMP is not acceptable.
>
> > Second best is an image format for the WWW - GIF,
> > JPEG or PNG. Avoid PNG if you want to reach people
> > with older browsers. Don't get me wrong - it's an
> > excellent image format, but older browsers don't
> > support it.
>
> BMP is not widly acceptable either.
>
> To the best of my knowledge not too many browsers will eat TIFF, and
> if they do, will they eat your TIFF file? TIFF is for good and bad, a
> format with many options.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 03:56:05 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:56:05 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
Message-ID: <73.11c8a95e.28b1c835@aol.com>

Speaking of old macs,

I just found an old mac powerbook 160 in the garbage bin in my building.
                                                                ______
It didn't have the wall wart, although the bottom says "Rated 7.5V  - - - - - 
 2.0A max"
SO I think next time I get to radioshack I'll pick one up and see if it works.

can this thing run anything of interest?  Old Midi sequencers or anything?

might be fun.

If it doesn't work, anyone need one fer parts er something?

thanks

Ed


From tpe123 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 04:24:14 2001
From: tpe123 at yahoo.com (Tim Escobedo)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:24:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Theremin Movie
Message-ID: <20010820022414.56657.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>

In-Reply-To: <3B800A1F.BEF4D35B at prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I think this has been discussed to death on levnet. IIRC, the video
release was minus some Theremin footage from the old Mickey Mouse Club
TV show, when one of the old Mousekateers threatened legal action about
royalties or some such thing. I believe the recently released DVD
version has some of the footage restored.

--- harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
> I'll ask the question again...
>
> The copy I rented said
> "This copy is changed from the original, it has been formatted to fit
> your screen and edited for content..."
>
> edited for CONTENT ??? By who... the KGB....???
> and for WHAT ?  Something net nanny does not want us to know ????
>
> (anyone know... what'd i miss ???)
>
> H^) harry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From metamaticdiy at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 05:05:03 2001
From: metamaticdiy at yahoo.com (R.D. Hess)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:05:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Theremin Movie
In-Reply-To: <20010820022414.56657.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010820030503.55174.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com>



--- Tim Escobedo <tpe123 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <3B800A1F.BEF4D35B at prodigy.net>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> I think this has been discussed to death on levnet.
> IIRC, the video
> release was minus some Theremin footage from the old
> Mickey Mouse Club
> TV show, when one of the old Mousekateers threatened
> legal action about
> royalties or some such thing. I believe the recently
> released DVD
> version has some of the footage restored.
>

 Ahh... Disney's legal department... even scarier than
the KGB!

 Rich 
> --- harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
> > I'll ask the question again...
> >
> > The copy I rented said
> > "This copy is changed from the original, it has
> been formatted to fit
> > your screen and edited for content..."
> >
> > edited for CONTENT ??? By who... the KGB....???
> > and for WHAT ?  Something net nanny does not want
> us to know ????
> >
> > (anyone know... what'd i miss ???)
> >
> > H^) harry
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Aug 20 05:35:46 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:35:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Theremin Movie
References: <20010820022414.56657.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B808592.F98D3DB6@silcom.com>

    Ahh HA!, I was wondering about that.  I have the DVD, and, there is no
footage I spotted of the Mickey Mouse Club, but it is in the credits.  I had
speculated to a freind that somebody at Disney would not give
permision...but what you said sounds plausable as well.

Tim Escobedo wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3B800A1F.BEF4D35B at prodigy.net>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I think this has been discussed to death on levnet. IIRC, the video
> release was minus some Theremin footage from the old Mickey Mouse Club
> TV show, when one of the old Mousekateers threatened legal action about
> royalties or some such thing. I believe the recently released DVD
> version has some of the footage restored.
>
> --- harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
> > I'll ask the question again...
> >
> > The copy I rented said
> > "This copy is changed from the original, it has been formatted to fit
> > your screen and edited for content..."
> >
> > edited for CONTENT ??? By who... the KGB....???
> > and for WHAT ?  Something net nanny does not want us to know ????
> >
> > (anyone know... what'd i miss ???)
> >
> > H^) harry
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From elmystico at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 20 06:43:34 2001
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Gavin Russom)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:43:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 sequencer
Message-ID: <200108200445.VAA21235@albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

hi all
someone was nice enough a couple months ago to send me the schematic for a
basic 4017 sequencer and I finally hace the time and parts to get to it. 
one question... the transistor that switches the gate signal, is it a pnp or
npn, its not labelled in the schematic, which I'll send as an attachment if
it helps
thanks
gavin


From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 07:08:55 2001
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 01:08:55 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Furby exhibit
Message-ID: <126.34e2c73.28b1f567@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/18/2001 8:19:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
CCartCat at aol.com writes:

>Just curious:  What did you think of it?

There wasn't anything too too spectacular as far as modifications went, but 
it was a barrel of fun. They had a little section with "sideshow freak" 
theme, with one enclosure housing pair of furbies wired together as siamese 
twins (one's sensors controlling the other) as well as a tickle-me-elmo with 
the head modified to accept a furby's eyes and mouth, and the furbies IR 
sensor triggering the voice in the tickle-me-elmo. (Something with a furby 
face going "Oh boy, that tickles!"...rather unsettling) The exhibit included 
very detailed anatomical drawings of the furby's innards, very neat the look 
at, but the centerpiece was the "reflection loop" 400 furbies mounted on a 
huge board covering one wall, with holes for the eyes, mouth and sensors of 
each. the IR transmitter from one reflects back from a person into the sensor 
on an adjacent furby, making it start to babble..I spent some time standing 
there waving an arm across the wall slowly and watching this trail of furbies 
babbling and opening their eyes and mouths following its path. Decordova is 
far more fun than the Museum of Fine Arts, that's for sure. (I had to take 
notes there for a paper in college, and got harassed by 3 security gaurds for 
having my laptop plugged into a wall outlet, allegedly "stealing their 
electricity"...never mind the dozens of incandescent bulbs blazing everywhere 
in the gallery)

-Chris



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From amartens at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Aug 20 08:46:43 2001
From: amartens at interchange.ubc.ca (Andrew Martens)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:46:43 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Amiga computer parts for Synth-DIY?
References: <4.1.20010818233306.01227f10@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <005f01c12944$2bb85460$183e4418@abtsfd1.bc.wave.home.com>

> Here are numbers from some of the large chips:
>
>   MOS 8361R5
>   MOS 8362R6
>   MOS 8364R4
>   MOS 8520A-1

I know that the 8364 chip is the 'Paula', which did sound, as well as floppy
and joystick I/O (I believe) - that's probably the only useful one there.  I
have a pinout for it, but unfortunately that's about it, other than this:

Features :
* Four voice of sound output configured as two stereo channels
* Nine octaves
* Complex waveforms
* Uses both amplitude and frequency modulation
* I/O controls for disk data and controller ports
* Microdisk controler
* Interrupt control system

If you want, I can send you the pinout (with a vague description of what
each pin does)... I may have more info tucked away somewhere.  Was
previously considering using the Paula to do a synth project, but I've since
decided to just finish off my SID module first, and then build a
micromodular.  Let me know if you're interested in more data, and I'll see
what I have stashed away on my HD.

Cheers,
Andrew Martens



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 10:12:42 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:12:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to the transformerground?
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108181932260.25692-100000@spy.suspicious.org> <3B800E4C.5612252F@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <010b01c12951$01e41860$1d82193e@default>

Hi all,

In the UK, you are not allowed to cut the earth cable anywhere. The
metal chassis, if it designed to be earthed, must be bonded to earth. If
you play your stuff live, you are liable to make it safe for all. That
means all earth bonding must be lower than 0.2 ohm from plug to all
parts of the chassis. Plastic stuff and other double insulated stuff is
free from this of course.

I would say about 10% of all mains powered gear I get in to fix has its
mains wire cut in the plug. Needless to say when it goes back to the
customer the wire goes back in place.

All UK repair places are legally obliged to do a continuity and
insulation test. Items that fail must be repaired or rendered
inoperable.

In Lancaster, and probably quite a few other places in the UK, the
council requires all of its public owned venues to check for mains earth
continuity. If you don't have a sticker on back of your gear, you don't
play. Smaller venues probably don't care or know about this.

But on a related note: there are now heaps of gear being piled up in
schools with 'FAILED continuity' stickers on the back. Anything with
metal switches and plastic cases have been known to fail the test and
get skipped. Ripe pickings out there....

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Mon Aug 20 10:19:40 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:19:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ot: shocking notebook : wiring was all wrong : thanx
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AEFE9@exchange1.intermetall.de>

Thanx to all who responded to my shocking notebook experience
question. In fact it turnded out that the power outlet wiring was
all wrong, the whole cellar was wired wrong by some tenant (!).

Perhaps this has saved my sister's life, because there's also
her washing machine in the cellar, now, imagine, wet clothes,
water all over, and a malicious wrong connected chassis!!!


m.c.


From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Aug 20 08:21:25 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:21:25
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 sequencer
Message-ID: <200108201522.f7KFMYq25510@smtp006.mailsrvcs.net>

I have also seen schematics (few thankfully) that do not
have an arrow at all.  These have been simple things
like amplifiers where if you look at the topology, you
can tell collector from emitter.  You have to figure out
NPN from PNP by looking at the polarity of the biases
applied.  Not fun, but can be done.  (I have a guitar
amp book that has some like this.  I took a pencil and...)


Dave Magnuson <resfreq at hoohahrecords.com> wrote:
>At 03:59 PM 8/20/01 +0200, you wrote:
>>Was this the one? (attachment)
>>
>>The transistor is NPN you can tell by looking at the direction of the arrow.
>>Arrow pointing FROM the basis = NPN
>>Arrow pointing TO the basis = PNP
>
>
>A good way to remember:
>
>the emitter of an NPN is (N)ot-(P)ointing-i(N)
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>Resonant Frequency:
>resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
>http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From bigtex at cwnet.com  Mon Aug 20 10:33:48 2001
From: bigtex at cwnet.com (Tavys Ashcroft)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 01:33:48 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
In-Reply-To: <73.11c8a95e.28b1c835@aol.com>
References: <73.11c8a95e.28b1c835@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04220805b7a67aff2b0c@[209.209.112.151]>

>I just found an old mac powerbook 160 in the garbage bin in my building.
>
>can this thing run anything of interest?  Old Midi sequencers or anything?

Sure.  You can run Performer on anything down to a Plus, I think. 
It's still one of my favorite sequencers.  I'm all about having 
different computers dedicated to different tasks (as long as they're 
free or cheap).  One for a hard disk recorder, one for MIDI 
sequencing, and another for all the other graphics/internet/hoo-ha. 
Wouldn't want to risk having the new version of Netscape (bleh..) 
crashing all my nice audio stuff into pieces (it's happened).

So far I'm managed to amass a Classic, a Powerbook 145, a Powerbook 
160, and Quadra 900, all for next to nothing.  Yay for scrap heaps 
and thrift stores.

-Tavys



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon Aug 20 12:18:43 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:18:43 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] new midi controller (oral)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010820101843.00818f68@popa.melbpc.org.au>

I see in this week's New Scientist mag (18 Aug, # 2304)
page 20-21:
the "mouthsizer" using a head mounted video camera
uses a facial-recognition algorithm to track the shape of
the players mouth & control midi data accordingly.
To be described at  Siggraph 2001.

paul perry (melbourne Australia)



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon Aug 20 12:18:45 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:18:45 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] CV and current Boss guitar multifx boxes?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010820101845.0081e004@popa.melbpc.org.au>

Does anyone know exactly what a Boss multifx box expects to see on its 
control input? I think it is a variable resistance, but can anyone 
confirm this, and if so, what resistance range does it expect?
I have been asked to control one via CV, so I'm thinking of a current convertor
and a led/ldr setup. I can't get inside the fx box (and, don't wnat to!)

paul perry Melbourne Australia



From modlar at gmx.de  Mon Aug 20 12:41:43 2001
From: modlar at gmx.de (modlar at gmx.de)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:41:43 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] (diy) MS 20 Ringmod
Message-ID: <24868.998304103@www16.gmx.net>

Hi all you DIYers,

New On my homepage :
just some short notes on the digital ringmodulator of KORG MS 20,
with 5 short (?) MP3-files. Sounds not bad at all !
(Synthesizer -> Selfmande stuff/ digital ringmod.)

BTW, if you want to hear MP3-files of 16 differnt filter types, you may
click to 
(Electronic Music -> workshop analog/modular synt. -> Step 2 
On this page (in german only, sorry) you will find 14 MP3's in the lower
3rd of this site !

J?rg

-- 
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net




From modlar at gmx.de  Mon Aug 20 12:42:50 2001
From: modlar at gmx.de (modlar at gmx.de)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:42:50 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] (diy)MS20 ringmod(2)
Message-ID: <26583.998304170@www16.gmx.net>

AAArhhgr !

the url : www.analog-synth.de

-- 
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net




From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Aug 20 11:40:11 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:40:11
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
Message-ID: <200108201842.f7KIg2C08874@smtp008.mailsrvcs.net>

Congratulations!

So why did you not send us all an e-cigar?  <g>

If this is your first, your gonna love this.  If not,
then you already know.

May there be a bounty of available discrete parts when 
he's old enough to use an iron.

jhaible at t-online.de (jh.) wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm a proud and happy father:
>
>Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.
>
>Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
>delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
>questions in the near future (;->).
>
>JH.
>
>
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Aug 20 15:47:34 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:47:34 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Amiga computer parts for Synth-DIY?
References: <4.1.20010818233306.01227f10@mail.ezwv.com> <005f01c12944$2bb85460$183e4418@abtsfd1.bc.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <003301c1297e$aabcc2c0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

For what I know Paula is a semi stand alone MOD player chip, it needs the
processor but does a lot on its own.
There is loads of info about programming Paula in various Amiga handbooks.
Some handbooks get quite deep into how the hardware works too, especially
when this is related to the interrupt handlers like in Paula's case.

To see how to hook Paula up you might check the Amica circuit diagrams.
Its used as 68000 periphery so probably the timing is compatible with 68000.

If memory serves the 8520 is a cmos 6520, a parallel interface (PIA)

Theo


From: Andrew Martens <amartens at interchange.ubc.ca>


> > Here are numbers from some of the large chips:
> >
> >   MOS 8361R5
> >   MOS 8362R6
> >   MOS 8364R4
> >   MOS 8520A-1
>
> I know that the 8364 chip is the 'Paula', which did sound, as well as
floppy
> and joystick I/O (I believe) - that's probably the only useful one there.
I
> have a pinout for it, but unfortunately that's about it, other than this:
>
> Features :
> * Four voice of sound output configured as two stereo channels
> * Nine octaves
> * Complex waveforms
> * Uses both amplitude and frequency modulation
> * I/O controls for disk data and controller ports
> * Microdisk controler
> * Interrupt control system
>
> If you want, I can send you the pinout (with a vague description of what
> each pin does)... I may have more info tucked away somewhere.  Was
> previously considering using the Paula to do a synth project, but I've
since
> decided to just finish off my SID module first, and then build a
> micromodular.  Let me know if you're interested in more data, and I'll see
> what I have stashed away on my HD.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew Martens
>



From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Aug 20 15:59:09 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:59:09 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 sequencer
References: <200108200445.VAA21235@albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <005c01c12980$48cf9180$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Was this the one? (attachment)

The transistor is NPN you can tell by looking at the direction of the arrow.
Arrow pointing FROM the basis = NPN
Arrow pointing TO the basis = PNP

Hope this helps,
Theo

------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Gavin Russom <elmystico at earthlink.net>
To: synth <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 6:43 AM
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 sequencer


> hi all
> someone was nice enough a couple months ago to send me the schematic for a
> basic 4017 sequencer and I finally hace the time and parts to get to it.
> one question... the transistor that switches the gate signal, is it a pnp
or
> npn, its not labelled in the schematic, which I'll send as an attachment
if
> it helps
> thanks
> gavin



From james at ersatzplanet.com  Mon Aug 20 16:07:04 2001
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:07:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] (dead) old apple mac
In-Reply-To: <v04220805b7a67aff2b0c@[209.209.112.151]>
Message-ID: <B7A66798.1D9B%james@ersatzplanet.com>

I have 4 old apple IIci systems and still use some of them (I know that may
seem excessive, but it seems never worth it to sell them). I run an older
copy of Max on them. The runtime 68k version of Max 3.8 works fine and they
can be used for the greatest midi mapper/transposer or general midi toolkit.
I also have an old version of a Steinberg sequencer on one of them (I don't
even know the name of it, I use it so little). The lower bandwidth of midi
never seems to be a problem.
I have an Andromedia II Nu-Bus card for sale to anyone who wants to slap it
into one of these older Macs. No software for it though. Stereo in and out
with SP/DIF in and out. I also have a bunch of SCSI SyQuest disk drives and
accelerator cards for these older units. Reach me off list if your
interested. Probably not worth the shipping cost though.
-James
-- 
James Husted
The ErsatZ Planet
james at ersatzplanet.com
www.ersatzplanet.com




From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Mon Aug 20 16:08:35 2001
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:08:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Amiga computer parts for Synth-DIY?
In-Reply-To: <003301c1297e$aabcc2c0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108200956260.5087-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>


> > > Here are numbers from some of the large chips:
> > >
> > >   MOS 8361R5
> > >   MOS 8362R6
> > >   MOS 8364R4
> > >   MOS 8520A-1


  These are the Agnus (interrupt, register and RAM control), Denise
(display control)  and Paula (audio, floppy, serial) chipset from the
Amiga 1000.  Think of them as one chip that couldn't be made due to
technology limitations at the time.  You aren't going to really be able to
use Paula by itself, as all the DMA control and register addressing for
the chip come from the Agnus chip.  I suppose glue logic to do enough
Agnus-like support of Paula is possible, but probably not worth the
trouble.

  The 8520s are similar to 6522 PIA chips, but they're different in terms
of interrupt control and internal timers.  CBM used them quickly (and
somewhat crudely) to finish the Amiga design.  They are often called the
"fuses of the Amiga" as they are the first things to fail if I/O
connectors are attached/disconnected while the machine was powered up.

Crow

/**/



From james at ersatzplanet.com  Mon Aug 20 16:11:54 2001
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:11:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to the
	transformerground?
In-Reply-To: <010b01c12951$01e41860$1d82193e@default>
Message-ID: <B7A668BA.1D9C%james@ersatzplanet.com>

on 8/20/01 1:12 AM, Tony Allgood at oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk
wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> In the UK, you are not allowed to cut the earth cable anywhere. The
> metal chassis, if it designed to be earthed, must be bonded to earth. If
> you play your stuff live, you are liable to make it safe for all. That
> means all earth bonding must be lower than 0.2 ohm from plug to all
> parts of the chassis. Plastic stuff and other double insulated stuff is
> free from this of course.
> 
I can really see this with 220V being the mains there! I've been shocked by
the US's 117V and it wasn't pleasant, but 220V would be, well, shocking to
say the least. One must always respect the power we all use.
-James



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 16:34:42 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:34:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to thetransformerground?
References: <B7A668BA.1D9C%james@ersatzplanet.com>
Message-ID: <00ac01c12988$c916f2e0$6d0587d9@default>

>I can really see this with 220V being the mains there!

Actually its still 240V. Although they, the powers that be, keep
threatening to turn it down to 230V. Bet it still hurts though!

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Mon Aug 20 16:52:16 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:52:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 sequencer
In-Reply-To: <005c01c12980$48cf9180$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
References: <200108200445.VAA21235@albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010820105216.0079db40@hoohahrecords.com>

At 03:59 PM 8/20/01 +0200, you wrote:
>Was this the one? (attachment)
>
>The transistor is NPN you can tell by looking at the direction of the arrow.
>Arrow pointing FROM the basis = NPN
>Arrow pointing TO the basis = PNP


A good way to remember:

the emitter of an NPN is (N)ot-(P)ointing-i(N)

Dave



Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From debus at cityweb.de  Mon Aug 20 16:52:22 2001
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:52:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Voltage Regulator as replacement?
References: <E15YUqB-000MdL-0U@anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <3B812424.54E2D673@cityweb.de>



Seb Carr wrote:
> >     I have also used zener diodes in the ground leg.  Like if I need a 10 volt
> > regulator, you put a 5 volt zener in the ground leg of a 5 volt regulator.
> >
> >
> >
> Up to what point does this work e.g. could i put a 43.0v zener in the ground
> leg of a 5v regulator to get a 48v supply for phantom power, or is this
> taking things way too far?

I'd rather use a 317 here (with resistor divider, just as described in
the data sheet), but I think a 5V regulator would work also. But anyway,
these "high voltage" power supplies are no longer short circuit proof.
If the output is shorted to ground, the voltage difference between input
and output of the regulator IC gets too high.

Ingo




From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Mon Aug 20 17:30:23 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:30:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to
  thetransformerground?
In-Reply-To: <B7A668BA.1D9C%james@ersatzplanet.com>
References: <010b01c12951$01e41860$1d82193e@default>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010820113023.007ab410@hoohahrecords.com>

At 07:11 AM 8/20/01 -0700, James Husted wrote:
>on 8/20/01 1:12 AM, Tony Allgood at oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk
>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> In the UK, you are not allowed to cut the earth cable anywhere. The
>> metal chassis, if it designed to be earthed, must be bonded to earth. If
>> you play your stuff live, you are liable to make it safe for all. That
>> means all earth bonding must be lower than 0.2 ohm from plug to all
>> parts of the chassis. Plastic stuff and other double insulated stuff is
>> free from this of course.
>> 
>I can really see this with 220V being the mains there! I've been shocked by
>the US's 117V and it wasn't pleasant, but 220V would be, well, shocking to
>say the least. One must always respect the power we all use.
>-James
>

I got belted by one leg of 480V-3 phase... I was servicing an air
conditioning roof-top unit in the rain.  A nice 1-1/2" or 2" spark jumped
out and hit the metal side panel as I was removing it.  Threw me about 5
feet, and I landed on my back about 2 feet from the roof edge.  My arm was
numb and tingling for hours.

I was only changing air filters and diagnosing a thermostat wiring problem
(24VAC), so I figured there was no reason to shut the power off.  Last time
I used *THAT* theory.  Lucky I'm not dead (from the shock or the potential
fall).  Respect your mains power.

Dave Magnuson


Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From gur_mil at mail.netvision.net.il  Mon Aug 20 17:39:28 2001
From: gur_mil at mail.netvision.net.il (Gur Milstein)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:39:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] analog asic synthesizer
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010820173928.006ba3ac@mail.netvision.net.il>

Hi .
Can any body give some information about the design of analog Asic's to
create an analog synthesizer ?
I know Alesis did one in its Andromeda synthesizer, did any one
worked on the Andromeda ?

Thanx
Gur Milstein




From debus at cityweb.de  Mon Aug 20 17:42:49 2001
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:42:49 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to the transformerground?
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108181932260.25692-100000@spy.suspicious.org> <3B800E4C.5612252F@prodigy.net> <010b01c12951$01e41860$1d82193e@default>
Message-ID: <3B812FF6.C0F76D8D@cityweb.de>



Tony Allgood wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> In the UK, you are not allowed to cut the earth cable anywhere. The
> metal chassis, if it designed to be earthed, must be bonded to earth.

Some gear makes it very easy to disconnect the circuit ground from the
chassis while leaving the connection from chassis to Protective Earth
intact. In my Alesis RA-100 amplifier it took just loosening one screw
to disconnect that cable. Obviously it was made that way just for that purpose.

Other gear isn't that friendly. I remember a Mackie mixer causing
trouble, because the circuit ground was connected to the chassis almost
everywhere (at each jack!). The Ensoniq DP/4 is also such a beast.

Perhaps it's because there are "cheater plugs" available in the US, that
in so many American gear Protective Earth is connected to circuit ground?

Ingo



From grichter at asapnet.net  Mon Aug 20 18:11:59 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:11:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Star Wars PCB IC's
In-Reply-To: <3B7FF2B1.CFBC3B97@ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <B7A6A0FF.21F4F%grichter@asapnet.net>

There are a bunch of Pokey editors around. They allow full access to the
Pokey register set. There were a set of Books called "The First Book of
Atari", the second book etc. One of them included a full editor.

Look on Atari websites and you can find a lot of free software. The is even
a program that turns your PC into an Atari 800 peripheral. That's how you
get the files onto the Atari. It uses a serial port on the PC with a fairly
simple hardware interface.
>> 
> 
> I'd like to get a copy of that PDF file, if you don't mind. I have a few
> old Atari computers laying around, along with some spare parts as well.
> I have lots of technical data about these machines including full
> schematics, and the assembly language source code for the machine's
> internal ROMs! Can you believe that Atari actually sold that information
> through retail stores? They did. If only modern PC's had that much
> documentation available. Just as nice, I wish synth makers would divulge
> the source code and schematics for all the computers used inside all the
> synths.
> 




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 18:26:16 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:26:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Polymoog repair
References: <B7A668BA.1D9C%james@ersatzplanet.com> <00ac01c12988$c916f2e0$6d0587d9@default>
Message-ID: <002701c12995$6c358fc0$268b193e@default>

Hi all,

Just thought I would share with you some photos of my ongoing Polymoog
restoration. Its all on one big page, so it may take a little while
(2mins or so on a dial up modem) to download all the photos.

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/polymoog.htm

Feel free to get back to me with comments.

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan






From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Aug 20 16:27:55 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:27:55
Subject: [sdiy] Casio MT-30 fixed!
Message-ID: <200108202332.f7KNWj307366@smtp002.mailsrvcs.net>

The power jack came unsoldered.  15 seconds to fix, but
30 minutes to get the dang case open.  My 8 year old son
is overjoyed because it works again.  His little hands
fit the mini keyboard better than a "full size" synth.

I had to tell someone, and you people would understand.

It's synth and DIY too!

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html





From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Aug 20 18:48:47 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:48:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] (diy)MS20 ringmod(2)
References: <26583.998304170@www16.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <000f01c12997$fbe0d1a0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Could the use of schmittrigger gates do away with the need for comparators
on the input for use with saw, sine and the like?

Theo


From: <modlar at gmx.de>


> AAArhhgr !
>
> the url : www.analog-synth.de
>
> --
> GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
> http://www.gmx.net
>
>
>



From don at till.com  Mon Aug 20 19:23:38 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:23:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] (diy) MS 20 Ringmod
In-Reply-To: <24868.998304103@www16.gmx.net> (modlar@gmx.de)
Message-ID: <200108201723.KAA11529@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: modlar at gmx.de
   Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:41:43 +0200 (MEST)

   New On my homepage :
   just some short notes on the digital ringmodulator of KORG MS 20,
   with 5 short (?) MP3-files. Sounds not bad at all !
   (Synthesizer -> Selfmande stuff/ digital ringmod.)

   the url : www.analog-synth.de

I don't understand; are you saying that the original four NAND gate
circuit is not an XOR?  It's a classic XOR implementation.

And I don't understand the point of your extra circuitry.  Why square
up inputs that are already square?  Why buffer the output?  Why the
trimpots?  Why invert the output?  

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From jhaible at t-online.de  Mon Aug 20 20:19:43 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:19:43 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
Message-ID: <006701c129a4$b2c4c5a0$04f19e3e@debitel.net>

Hi,

I'm a proud and happy father:

Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.

Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
questions in the near future (;->).

JH.






From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Mon Aug 20 21:01:06 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:01:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <002701c129aa$77e41520$5b79073e@paul>

Dear all,

  Just as a thought, there seems ot be lot of people into embedded micros on
this list.
Does anyone think it would be worth starting a kind of embedded micro synth
list?

  Mainly to dicuss the micro related side of synths, anyone?

 Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From CCartCat at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 21:08:03 2001
From: CCartCat at aol.com (CCartCat at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:08:03 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] CV and current Boss guitar multifx boxes?
Message-ID: <95.f14b755.28b2ba13@aol.com>

Lurker offers some inexact info (standard disclaimer applies):

Any Roland/Boss expression pedal input I've messed with is TRS.  Since I 
(ignorantly) used the Control Voltage feature on a DOD FX-17 Wah-Vol as an 
exp. pedal with some continued success, I must have grounded out the 
Roland/Boss own voltage source.  So I guess that the Tip is the return 
voltage, the Ring the outgoing source voltage and the Sleeve is ground.  

Since then, I've used a passive volume pedal with the mono ends of an insert 
cable connected to the pedal and the stereo TRS end connected to the 
Roland/Boss whatzit's exp. pedal input.  Pot value, dunno, off hand.  And 
whether this set up is optimal is another thing.

But unless totally & continuously grounding out the Roland/Boss voltage 
source is a bad thing (which wouldn't make sense, but as I am a mere 
wayfaring lurker . . .), this means you can feed your own CV into the exp. 
pedal if you wanted.  FWIW, the DOD Wah/Vol pedal's CV range is 0 to +5 volts.

Submerging now,
Kevin

<<Does anyone know exactly what a Boss multifx box expects to see on its 
control input? I think it is a variable resistance, but can anyone 
confirm this, and if so, what resistance range does it expect?
I have been asked to control one via CV, so I'm thinking of a current 
convertor
and a led/ldr setup. I can't get inside the fx box (and, don't wnat to!)

paul perry Melbourne Australia
>>



From controlkeys at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 20 21:17:22 2001
From: controlkeys at hotmail.com (Bill Keys)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:17:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
Message-ID: <F1314Q5yoQYKhIxhel40000b635@hotmail.com>

It's not off-topic! It's the best DIY project going!!!!!

Congratulations!

As a father of a 10 year old & a 4 year old, here's hoping your 
sleep-deprivation only lasts half as long as mine has....

Sleepily yours,
Bill

>jhaible at t-online.de (jh.) wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I'm a proud and happy father:
> >
> >Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.
> >
> >Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
> >delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
> >questions in the near future (;->).
> >
> >JH.
> >
> >
> >
+_+_Yes, honey, I know there are 25 boxes of electronic junk cluttering up 
the attic. They will, one day, magically be transformed into a modular 
synthesizer cluttering up the attic.... www.mp3.com/OriginalSimulacrum _+_+


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Mon Aug 20 21:30:15 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:30:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
References: <000501c1263b$8890c700$2201a8c0@artist>
Message-ID: <00ed01c129ae$a8fbb100$5b79073e@paul>

Alex,

  The other thing :-) as I found out from a CE place..
if you sell it as a 'prototype' you can sell it WITHOUT CE approval,
providing you state somewhere in the documents you intend to have it CE
approved...

  SO you could sell a product in limited quantities to see how it goes
before forking out for CE approval..

  Chris, BTW, I found somewhere quite cheap to get CE approval done, about
800UKP...

  Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com





From cfmd at swipnet.se  Mon Aug 20 21:33:13 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:33:13 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
In-Reply-To: <006701c129a4$b2c4c5a0$04f19e3e@debitel.net>
References: <006701c129a4$b2c4c5a0$04f19e3e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <20010820213313H.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:19:43 +0200

> Hi,

Dear J?rgen,

> I'm a proud and happy father:
> 
> Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.

My deapest congratulation to you and your wife!

> Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
> delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
> questions in the near future (;->).

I expect not to hear much from you the nearest weeks! ;O)

Cheers,
Magnus


From matti at devo.com  Mon Aug 20 21:46:05 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:46:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
In-Reply-To: <002701c129aa$77e41520$5b79073e@paul>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108201544310.3713-100000@whipit.devo.com>

Why not keep it on-list? It's certainly synth, and certainly diy, there
are people who would be interested in the discussions and take part, but
maybe not join a list, and cross pollination is always so so important.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Paul Maddox wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>   Just as a thought, there seems ot be lot of people into embedded micros on
> this list.
> Does anyone think it would be worth starting a kind of embedded micro synth
> list?
>
>   Mainly to dicuss the micro related side of synths, anyone?
>
>  Paul Maddox

-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From tom at tommay.net  Mon Aug 20 22:24:33 2001
From: tom at tommay.net (Tom May)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:24:33 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] should I connect the plug ground to the transformerground?
In-Reply-To: Ingo Debus's message of "Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:42:49 +0200"
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108181932260.25692-100000@spy.suspicious.org> <3B800E4C.5612252F@prodigy.net> <010b01c12951$01e41860$1d82193e@default> <3B812FF6.C0F76D8D@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <E15Yvb8-0005lB-00@no-spam.tommay.net>

Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de> writes:

> Tony Allgood wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > In the UK, you are not allowed to cut the earth cable anywhere. The
> > metal chassis, if it designed to be earthed, must be bonded to earth.
> 
> Some gear makes it very easy to disconnect the circuit ground from the
> chassis while leaving the connection from chassis to Protective Earth
> intact. In my Alesis RA-100 amplifier it took just loosening one screw
> to disconnect that cable. Obviously it was made that way just for that purpose.
> 
> Other gear isn't that friendly. I remember a Mackie mixer causing
> trouble, because the circuit ground was connected to the chassis almost
> everywhere (at each jack!).

Believe it or not, that's a highly touted feature of the 1202.

fTom.


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Mon Aug 20 22:26:28 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:26:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DC offset amplifier?
In-Reply-To: <v04220800b7a60973c6a7@[209.142.56.129]>
References: <v04220800b7a60973c6a7@[209.142.56.129]>
Message-ID: <20010820222628M.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Tavys Ashcroft <bigtex at cwnet.com>
Subject: [sdiy] DC offset amplifier?
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:28:32 -0700

> I'm working on an LFO to use as CV for a VCO (I need more acronyms in 
> there),

CV-LFO should do the trick.

> and I want to have a variable DC offset for the output of the 
> LFO.

Should be simple enought. Toss in a simple summing point.

> I'll be using that to control the pitch of the VCO, so I want 
> my LFO's wave to be riding on a variable DC voltage.  What's the best 
> way to go about doing this?  Should I sum the LFO's output with the 
> output of a DC amplifier...?

Just sum the LFO output with that of the offset input, should be
simple enought to do.

Cheers,
Magnus



From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Aug 20 22:29:42 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:29:42 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
References: <006701c129a4$b2c4c5a0$04f19e3e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <3B817335.706AE32D@silcom.com>

    Congratulations....Have you purchased him his first soldering iron
yet?

    -Jim

"jh." wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm a proud and happy father:
>
> Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.
>
> Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
> delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
> questions in the near future (;->).
>
> JH.



From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Aug 20 22:35:11 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:35:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
References: <002701c129aa$77e41520$5b79073e@paul>
Message-ID: <3B81747E.DB85C560@silcom.com>

    This sounds like a posibly good idea.

    -Jim

Paul Maddox wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>   Just as a thought, there seems ot be lot of people into embedded micros on
> this list.
> Does anyone think it would be worth starting a kind of embedded micro synth
> list?
>
>   Mainly to dicuss the micro related side of synths, anyone?
>
>  Paul Maddox
> _______________________________________
> Wavesynth home page;-
>     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> PPG Synthesizer pages;-
>     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> Waveterm C Project page;-
>     Http://www.waveterm.com



From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Aug 20 22:40:41 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:40:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Kurzwiel K250 key contacts sticking
Message-ID: <3B8175C9.EF13834A@silcom.com>

    A freind of mine just got a Kurzwiel K250, and the problem he has is
the key contacts seem to get stuck together.  He can go in and manual
separate them and every thing is fine until it happens again.  I suspect
some gunk on them, but there is a posibility that this is a problem with
the unit.  Does anybody know the answer on how to solve this problem...

    Thanks...

    -Jim




From don at till.com  Mon Aug 20 22:55:08 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:55:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
In-Reply-To: <006701c129a4$b2c4c5a0$04f19e3e@debitel.net>
	(jhaible@t-online.de)
Message-ID: <200108202055.NAA07944@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
   Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:19:43 +0200

   I'm a proud and happy father:
   Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.

CONGRATULATIONS!!

I'll bet you were tempted to name him "Modulator".

I became a father four months ago myself.  Twin boys (yow!).  
Photos here:
  http://www.till.com/juniors

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Mon Aug 20 23:29:23 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:29:23 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <8f.eac3314.28b2db33@aol.com>

um, what are imbeded micro's?  

are they those things that look like a little piece of grey chewing gum 
rolled in gunpowder that I find on kids toys like zap guns and stuff?  

thanks


From synthusiast at gmx.net  Mon Aug 20 23:37:01 2001
From: synthusiast at gmx.net (Synthusiast)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:37:01 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
References: <002701c129aa$77e41520$5b79073e@paul> <3B81747E.DB85C560@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <001101c129c0$43a4fbb0$0100000a@M>

Doesn't this list, together with the Atmel list, cover that area?

Are ppl using other brands of micro's too? ;-)

Cheers,
Martijn (AT89S53-, AT90S2333-, AT90S4433-, future AT90S8515- or ATMega161-
user)


Jim Patchell wrote:

>     This sounds like a posibly good idea.
>
>     -Jim
>
> Paul Maddox wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> >   Just as a thought, there seems ot be lot of people into embedded
micros on
> > this list.
> > Does anyone think it would be worth starting a kind of embedded micro
synth
> > list?
> >
> >   Mainly to dicuss the micro related side of synths, anyone?
> >
> >  Paul Maddox
> > _______________________________________
> > Wavesynth home page;-
> >     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> > Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> >     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> > PPG Synthesizer pages;-
> >     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> > Waveterm C Project page;-
> >     Http://www.waveterm.com
>



From sdcurtin at agere.com  Mon Aug 20 23:51:13 2001
From: sdcurtin at agere.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:51:13 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <87008FA36E57F041AB826576738ADF59382694@NJ8650EXCUAG01.ags.agere.com>

Paul,

My preference would be to keep it on this list.  There's so many dimensions
to this subject, and embedded micros is just one of them.  It seems like
extra maintenance to have to subscribe to multiple lists.

Steve C

> >   Just as a thought, there seems ot be lot of people into embedded
> micros on
> > this list.
> > Does anyone think it would be worth starting a kind of embedded micro
> synth
> > list?
> >
> >   Mainly to dicuss the micro related side of synths, anyone?
> >
> >  Paul Maddox
> > _______________________________________
> > Wavesynth home page;-
> >     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> > Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> >     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> > PPG Synthesizer pages;-
> >     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> > Waveterm C Project page;-
> >     Http://www.waveterm.com
> 
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Agere Systems (formerly
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics)
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at agere.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





From cfmd at swipnet.se  Tue Aug 21 00:12:22 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:12:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
In-Reply-To: <3B81A4F7.36BD2331@wanadoo.fr>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108201544310.3713-100000@whipit.devo.com>
	<3B81A4F7.36BD2331@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20010821001222K.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: jbv <jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:02:00 +0000

> > Why not keep it on-list? It's certainly synth, and certainly diy, there
> > are people who would be interested in the discussions and take part, but
> > maybe not join a list, and cross pollination is always so so important.
> >
> 
> I strongly aprove the above opinion : IMHO embedded micros in
> analog synths is one of the most promising innovation domain
> for DIYers, and disconnecting that topic from the general synth-DIY
> discussion doesn't sound like a good idea...
> 
> BTW, I've enjoyed this list for more than 4 years now, but have been
> frustrated at times by the incredibly huge importance given to the main
> analog topics (expo converters & the like) compared to micros, and
> digital + hybrid systems in general...

IMHO we can tolerate some of that stuff. I don't like the list to
totally go off into DSP land, but some of the stuff is for me totally
legit and we actually have discussed digital filters and filter
theory, impulse responces, cross-correlation etc. here. I think that
if you actually toss together hardware and software to a synth or
sufficiently audio-related, it is still valid here. We should take
care not to loose the audience, but I don't think we desperately need
to form a new list just for the purpose. I know that many people learn
just by lurking around and reading stuff. The wider we spread our
discussions and also show that simple methods is at hand, the more
people can understand. We sometimes deviate into way more offtopic
stuff than I consider cooking a synth in a microprocessor is or ever
was. I also think it is good to have it in there, to bring in some
contrast.

> Hope the above is understandable : it's late & I've been working hard
> today...

Been there, done that.

Cheers,
Magnus - sorry for wasting bits on this...



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Tue Aug 21 00:14:01 2001
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:14:01 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] (diy) MS 20 Ringmod
In-Reply-To: <200108201723.KAA11529@shell9.ba.best.com>
References: <24868.998304103@www16.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010821001401.00f5d100@mailout.uni-bonn.de>

At 10:23 20.08.01 -0700, Don Tillman wrote:

>I don't understand; are you saying that the original four NAND gate
>circuit is not an XOR?  It's a classic XOR implementation.

Yes it is, but in the original schemo there is obviously a drawing error.
One of the three NANDs (inside the same package!) is drawn as an AND gate, 
and there is that connection missing, at the input.)

Cheers,
 Ren?


-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From gene at ixiacom.com  Tue Aug 21 00:27:29 2001
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:27:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
Message-ID: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8ABAC703C@racerx.ixiacom.com>

message to Juergen:

Congratulations, Juergen!

message to list:

Yes, there goes Juergen for a while, maybe even years (like what happened to
me). Funny thing is, I like it that way. Sometimes I get a little frustrated
when I can't answer ASM-1 emails or move forward on my next synthesizer or
even power up the stuff I've already got... but then I get tackled and
knocked over by three kids and my frustration goes away. Maybe they're
getting old enough to want to play synthesizers with me... they do love the
old Korg VC-10 cuz it has a mike on it... and the margarine-tub trigger pads
for the drum module are a big hit...

message to Don Tillman:

Twins - "yow" is right! Although I don't have direct experience with twins
(minimum age separation in our house is 2 years), I would like to propose
that when you have multiple babies of the same age, then instead of work
doubled it's work squared. Triplets would be cubed, etc.

- Gene



-----Original Message-----
From: jhaible at t-online.de [mailto:jhaible at t-online.de]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:20 AM
To: analogue; diy; motm at egroups.com
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father


Hi,

I'm a proud and happy father:

Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.

Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
questions in the near future (;->).

JH.





From jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr  Tue Aug 21 02:02:00 2001
From: jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:02:00 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108201544310.3713-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <3B81A4F7.36BD2331@wanadoo.fr>



matti :

> Why not keep it on-list? It's certainly synth, and certainly diy, there
> are people who would be interested in the discussions and take part, but
> maybe not join a list, and cross pollination is always so so important.
>

I strongly aprove the above opinion : IMHO embedded micros in
analog synths is one of the most promising innovation domain
for DIYers, and disconnecting that topic from the general synth-DIY
discussion doesn't sound like a good idea...

BTW, I've enjoyed this list for more than 4 years now, but have been
frustrated at times by the incredibly huge importance given to the main
analog topics (expo converters & the like) compared to micros, and
digital + hybrid systems in general...

Hope the above is understandable : it's late & I've been working hard
today...

Thanks.
JB



From amartens at interchange.ubc.ca  Tue Aug 21 03:52:03 2001
From: amartens at interchange.ubc.ca (Andrew Martens)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:52:03 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
References: <002701c129aa$77e41520$5b79073e@paul>
Message-ID: <002301c129e3$e06dece0$183e4418@abtsfd1.bc.wave.home.com>

I'd suggest keeping it on the list, because (a) I'm doing my work primarily
with embedded micros right now (PIC 16F87x series, to be exact), and I think
it'll be of relevance to this list as well, and (b) I don't want to have to
subscribe to yet _another_ mailing list. :-)

Cheers,
Andrew Martens

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Maddox" <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
To: "Synth DIY LIST" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:01 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros


> Dear all,
>
>   Just as a thought, there seems ot be lot of people into embedded micros
on
> this list.
> Does anyone think it would be worth starting a kind of embedded micro
synth
> list?
>
>   Mainly to dicuss the micro related side of synths, anyone?
>
>  Paul Maddox
> _______________________________________
> Wavesynth home page;-
>     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> PPG Synthesizer pages;-
>     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> Waveterm C Project page;-
>     Http://www.waveterm.com
>
>



From mcphive at corrupt.net  Tue Aug 21 04:05:52 2001
From: mcphive at corrupt.net (andy)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:05:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Casio MT-30 fixed!
In-Reply-To: <200108202332.f7KNWj307366@smtp002.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108202156260.30398-100000@washington.corrupt.net>


> The power jack came unsoldered.  15 seconds to fix, but
> 30 minutes to get the dang case open.  My 8 year old son
> is overjoyed because it works again.  His little hands
> fit the mini keyboard better than a "full size" synth.

	 this happened to my casio mt-240 too! it was just a soldering job
too, but gave me motivation to dig into it further and install some
dip-switch-controlled circuit bends... (this was a couple of years ago,
admittedly it is not that useful in recording)

	 off that topic, though, i rigged up the second and third
XR2209-based LFO from a small pile of those chips i got a while back; it
is quite simple to make a VCLFO out of these!! i used a dual opamp and
some of the ideas from the Polyphony article on the XR2209 LFO (i put it
up on the net if anyone is interested: supa.corrupt.net/lfo1.gif and
lfo2.gif) for this.

	of course as soon as i tested them out, i hooked them together and
marveled at the sight of one triangle wave fm'ing another (it looks like a
bouncing spring)

	next up on the bench: a VCA and LFO module from oakley synths. i
just got the kit today in the mail-- thanks tony! :)

	andy



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue Aug 21 04:58:37 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:58:37 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>

I don't do digital myself, but I'm all in favor of having 
digital Syn-DIY on the current list.
In particular, I like to see a PIC exponential convertor
via lookup table, probably cheaper & easier than the 
analog way, by the time you get a tempco etc.

Considering how much TOTALLY off-topic posts there are,
I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog, 
digital, or mechanical.

paul perry melbourne australia




From thescum at surfree.com  Tue Aug 21 05:46:41 2001
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:46:41 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010821034641.009a3e88@smtp.surfree.com>

>um, what are imbeded micro's?  
>
>are they those things that look like a little piece of grey chewing gum 
>rolled in gunpowder that I find on kids toys like zap guns and stuff?  

An embedded microprocessor is usually one that's set up in some "hidden"
application, and runs a specialized program to do whatever task is at hand.
Compare it to an "open" system, like a desktop computer, where you can load
and run all sorts of other software.  They're also usually considered
distinct from DSP chips, which are made for number crunching, though they
may also be hidden in various boxes.

Embedded micros turn up in all kinds of "closed" systems, from the things
that makes the LED in the kid's shoes blink and other toys, up to industrial
machine control.  Most modern synths, drum machines etc have at least one
micro inside, possibly in charge of some analog electronics, or a DSP, or
even generating the sound itself.

It's also common for chips that were once at the bleeding edge of the
desktop/workstation to eventually get spun into embedded chips...the chip
might sprout onboard RAM/ROM/EEPROM etc for storing code and data, and move
some peripherals onboard (some UARTS, 3-wire interface, AD/DA).  With some
modern systems, all you need to supply the processor with is power, and
maybe an RC network for the clock...everything else is internal.  The ol'
6502 is still around in various guises like that, as is the 68000 (ever peek
inside a Palm Pilot?  Not much in there!).

Byron Jacquot



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Tue Aug 21 05:51:56 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:51:56 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <94.189f0f9e.28b334dc@aol.com>

Hmm,  so waht are those little chewing gum gunpowder things that I see in all 
those kids toys that make zaps and falling bomb noises?

Ed


From mclilith at ezwv.com  Tue Aug 21 06:23:41 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:23:41 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010821001432.01229050@mail.ezwv.com>

At 10:58 PM 8/20/01 , Paul Perry wrote:

>I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog, 
>digital, or mechanical.

Hmm...  Mechanical...

That would include what? Making your own reverb plates and springs?
Building one's own variable-speed-drill-powered, tonewheel oscillator
synth? What else? How about a treadle-powered, mechanically bent and bowed,
musical-saw "theremin"?

Am I even close?  :)

...but seriously, I DO agree with you.


Later,
Glen


From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Aug 21 07:08:09 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:08:09
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
Message-ID: <200108211408.f7LE8SW06466@smtp007.mailsrvcs.net>

Hey, baby noises could be used as all sorts of fun
input.  Sample and s l o w down and you have a wierd
random voltage LFO.  Cut pieces out and repeat quickly
and you have an odd waveform VCO.  Catching a nice
loud belch would be difficult, but maybe make a good
bass sound...

"Nils Pipenbrinck" <np at inverse-entertainment.de> wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "jh." <jhaible at t-online.de>
>> I'm a proud and happy father:
>
>Hey, couldn't you put some mp3 samples on your website please? I would like
>to hear it scream :)
>
>Congratulations to you and your wife...
>
>    Nils Pipenbrinck
>
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From modlar at gmx.de  Tue Aug 21 09:08:51 2001
From: modlar at gmx.de (modlar at gmx.de)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:08:51 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] (diy) MS 20 Ringmod
References: <200108201723.KAA11529@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <4845.998377731@www43.gmx.net>

> I don't understand; are you saying that the original four NAND gate
> circuit is not an XOR?  It's a classic XOR implementation.
Answered by Rene already !
> 
> And I don't understand the point of your extra circuitry.  Why square
> up inputs that are already square?  
Because there are VCO's which give Saw waves, and/or Triangular Waves and/or
also Sine waves. So the input is NOT allways a square, and I want to feed
the
XOR with a Square with 50:50 relation, if possible (thats also the reason
for the 
trimpot, as you can easily read in the schematic).

>Why buffer the output?
Its not only a buffer, its for centering the ringmod output around 0V, thats
a
better input signal for most of the VCF's I use. Thats the reason for the
second
trimpot, BTW.
  
>Why the trimpots?  
------

>Why invert the output?  
Why not ? Do you hear a difference between a normal or an inverted ringmod
output ? You must be lucky, if !!!

J?rg


-- 
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net




From massann at tin.it  Tue Aug 21 09:19:34 2001
From: massann at tin.it (massann at tin.it)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:19:34 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 
Message-ID: <MWMail.nsjhabkg@host.none>

unsubscribe



From jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr  Tue Aug 21 09:48:08 2001
From: jbv.silences at wanadoo.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:48:08 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
References: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <3B821236.A98BA533@wanadoo.fr>



Paul Perry :

> Considering how much TOTALLY off-topic posts there are,
> I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog,
> digital, or mechanical.
>

Mechanical ? Mmmh...

And what about "embedded steam engines" ?

JB





From mikko.a.helin at nokia.com  Tue Aug 21 10:18:21 2001
From: mikko.a.helin at nokia.com (mikko.a.helin at nokia.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:18:21 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <0AA9E01B31168E42A308714A6EF271841E9C4B@trebe002.NOE.Nokia.com>


I think the list would be great, and it wouldn't mean that micros were OT in
this (synth-DIY) list. I vote for putting the micro-synth list on
Yahoo/Egroups where you can browse the messages without receiving them as
email. As a bonus there's also some storage space for files (like pcb
layouts, schematics, source code etc.).

-Mikko

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Paul Maddox [mailto:Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com]
> Sent: 20. August 2001 22:01
> To: Synth DIY LIST
> Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>   Just as a thought, there seems ot be lot of people into 
> embedded micros on
> this list.
> Does anyone think it would be worth starting a kind of 
> embedded micro synth
> list?
> 
>   Mainly to dicuss the micro related side of synths, anyone?
> 
>  Paul Maddox
> _______________________________________
> Wavesynth home page;-
>     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> PPG Synthesizer pages;-
>     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> Waveterm C Project page;-
>     Http://www.waveterm.com
> 
> 


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Tue Aug 21 10:26:56 2001
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (GothGeek Sysadmin)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:26:56 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Bucket Brigades...
Message-ID: <20010821012656.P53127@moo.sysabend.org>

I've been pondering an idea for a few weeks now and figured I'd throw it
into the list and see how badly it gets torn up...

Since Matsushita has quit making dedicated analog shift registers in favor
of digital devices, and since I dont like the sound of digital devices
( my complaint is they are too predictable ) I've been looking at some
other devices that are still available and one that comes to mind are
Fax machine optical pickups.

It seems there are two kinds of optical pickups that I've looked at in
schematics.  The first kind is a non-shuttered pickup.   This is an
8" long optical sensor that when you hit the sample input it immediatly
drops the input of the 3000 or so image points into a bucket brigade where
it can be shifted out and stuffed thru an A/D for faxing.  This one
isnt too interesting.  The other kind is the shuttered one.  With the
shuttered one you open the shutter, take the image, close the shutter,
and then step out the analog values as in the non-shuttered kind except
that the image cells themselves are the BBDs.

My idea is to use one of the shuttered style without a shutter, paint most
of it black, and input analog signal to the far end with an LED.  The hard
part really seems to be finding enough data on these devices thats in
English to see if a design is really feasible.  The thought occured to me
that CCDs for cameras might also be something worth looking into but I 
worry that they might become obsolete very quickly.  The CCD devices
in fax machines go back quite a few years.  I've found one unit by
sharp in use since the early 1990s.

It doesnt look like BBDs are a dead product at all, they've just moved into
other markets.  

Here's to hoping this idea wasnt already talked to death in a prior thread
and I just havent found it in the archive yet...


  ... off to play with his Ibanez AD230 that may or may not be picking up
      the local AM religious station right now...

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue Aug 21 10:52:18 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:52:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros/ OT: Happy father/ OT
References: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au> <3B821236.A98BA533@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <002d01c12a1e$ab3be820$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>


I think it's funny. We seen to be very tolerant of just about 
anything anybody wants to say about pretty much anything.
...and we're all guilty. Seems to me I actually posted a link 
to a Sterling steam engine once...After starting a totally OT
thread.... .;-)

This is by far the best list on the web. Hosted and maintained
by the best...(Hi Rick..;-) and the membership is.....well what
can I say? ....the best!

Other lists tend to exterminate with extreme prejudice any
thing slightly OT. I usually just let the OT stuff slide right by
but it's nice to have a place you can shout out to your buds 
(that's mates in euro-lingo) without getting stomped  on....;-)

Congratulations, Juergen! I'm total baby putty myself. I've 
been known take crying babies because I figure I stand a better 
chance of finding out what's wrong that most. My wife
agrees that it's an extension my  controlling personality. I
prefer to be in charge...even if it or they are crying at me...;-)

I usually get the child to function with minimal fuss with a 
combination of making goofy child like sounds myself and 
movement of the child. Ether by rocking continually or carrying. 

The carrying can be tricky....If the child needs to burp, it's 
best to carry with belly to your body, patting continually on the 
back...until there is a pressure release....you'll know..;-)

If the baby is bored...carry the child in your hands facing the
world . You will develop a knack for this method, holding the
butt in your palm, securing a leg between your fingers and 
holding the baby to your body with what would otherwise 
and never again be your free hand. I explain and talk about
everything....just as I would an older child. I have found that
most if not all babies get pissed for 1 or more of about half a
dozen reasons but it could be anything.  My Goddaughter 
doesn't like anybody....ever. I'm only one of 6 people that she 
will let hold her, at all!
 
They are usually wet, hungry or tired. They can't walk and 
they can't talk. It tough being little. It'd piss me off too...;-)  

All Joking aside. Kim and I send our best to you and yours. 
We would be honored  to welcome Young Master Tassilo 
Johannes Haible to his life. May all of dreams be of sweetness 
and his path in this world safe and even.

Tom & Kimberly
 










> Paul Perry :
> 
> > Considering how much TOTALLY off-topic posts there are,
> > I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog,
> > digital, or mechanical.
> >
> 
> Mechanical ? Mmmh...
> 
> And what about "embedded steam engines" ?
> 
> JB
> 
> 
> 



From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Tue Aug 21 12:09:08 2001
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:09:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
References: <006701c129a4$b2c4c5a0$04f19e3e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <00f601c12a29$55d2f940$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>

----- Original Message -----
From: "jh." <jhaible at t-online.de>
> I'm a proud and happy father:

Hey, couldn't you put some mp3 samples on your website please? I would like
to hear it scream :)

Congratulations to you and your wife...

    Nils Pipenbrinck





From jhaible at t-online.de  Tue Aug 21 12:19:05 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:19:05 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Thank you (was: OT: Happy father)
References: <006701c129a4$b2c4c5a0$04f19e3e@debitel.net> <001e01c12a12$5eeaab20$5b92193e@default>
Message-ID: <004301c12a2a$bcc366c0$79f59e3e@debitel.net>

Thank you vey much for all your congrats and best wishes
for our child. I got such overwhealming response that it's
difficult to answer each single mail right now, but they are
all appreciated.

Heading for the hospital again now, exploring a new (old)
oscillator technology: MCO (Milk Controlled Oscillator)

Thanks again,

JH.




From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Tue Aug 21 14:40:56 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:40:56 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010821001432.01229050@mail.ezwv.com>
References: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010821084056.0079eb90@hoohahrecords.com>

At 12:23 AM 8/21/01 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:58 PM 8/20/01 , Paul Perry wrote:
>
>>I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog, 
>>digital, or mechanical.
>
>Hmm...  Mechanical...
>
>That would include what? Making your own reverb plates and springs?
>Building one's own variable-speed-drill-powered, tonewheel oscillator
>synth? What else? How about a treadle-powered, mechanically bent and bowed,
>musical-saw "theremin"?
>
>Am I even close?  :)
>
>...but seriously, I DO agree with you.


Actually, I've been toying with a "mechanical" module the last few days.  I
have a motor from an old Laser Disc Player that conveniently works as a DC
generator.  It has a 3.5" diameter wheel attached to the top that I'm
planning to weight with lead-free solder for a little more inertia.  

Give it a spin one way and it makes a positive CV with a relatively slow
rise/fall time.  Give it a spin the other way, and it makes a negative CV.
I had it connected to filter cutoff, and it's pretty fun to play with.  I'm
just hoping that a little more weight on the wheel will make it "sustain" a
little while longer.  I may also add an adjustable slew rate limiter after
it to control the transients a little, and some sort of over-voltage
protection (so If I spin it too hard I don't whack my modular with a 30V CV)

The hardest thing is going to be cutting the panel to accept the wheel.  I
want the wheel mounted horizontally, so that only a cresent-shaped piece
protrudes from the face of the module... so I need to cut a 3/8" x 2" slot
in 1/8" aluminum.  Open to any suggestions for this.  Router with a metal
cutting bit?

Anyone try something like this?  Seems like a fun little project that's
going to cost me almost nothing for parts (The disc player was free).  Also
have a 680nM laser from it...  wondering what the heck to do with that
thing :)

Dave

Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From controlkeys at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 21 15:17:37 2001
From: controlkeys at hotmail.com (Bill Keys)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:17:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <F200HfqR77bieLYCT4a0000c051@hotmail.com>

Here is something I found with which I've been pondering as a basis for a 
PIC expo.... In theory it could be PIC-ized or micro-ized to have any number 
of lookup table generated c.v. uses.

http://www.ee.washington.edu/conselec/CE/kuhn/onebit/primer.htm


+_+_Yes, honey, I know there are 25 boxes of electronic junk cluttering up 
the attic. They will, one day, magically be transformed into a modular 
synthesizer cluttering up the attic.... www.mp3.com/OriginalSimulacrum _+_+

>From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Embedded micros
>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:58:37 +1000
>
>I don't do digital myself, but I'm all in favor of having
>digital Syn-DIY on the current list.
>In particular, I like to see a PIC exponential convertor
>via lookup table, probably cheaper & easier than the
>analog way, by the time you get a tempco etc.
>
>Considering how much TOTALLY off-topic posts there are,
>I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog,
>digital, or mechanical.
>
>paul perry melbourne australia
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Tue Aug 21 16:12:41 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:12:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] bending a danelectro milkshake
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010821090520.02a13b00@mailhub.verio.net>

Hello,
I made the tragic mistake of buying two Danelectro Milk Shake chorus 
pedals. (not really that tragic at the prices I got'm for) but I was kind 
of curious about bending one of'm... does anyone have any suggestions or info?

Sure would appreciate it.

kud0ez

Joshua


Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Tue Aug 21 16:16:01 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:16:01 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Nibbler (was:Embedded micros)
In-Reply-To: <005f01c12a4a$78430850$bfab183f@Studio1>
References: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
 <3.0.6.32.20010821084056.0079eb90@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010821101601.007a9a60@hoohahrecords.com>

At 08:06 AM 8/21/01 -0600, Ian Fritz wrote:
>
>>The hardest thing is going to be cutting the panel to accept the wheel.  I
>> want the wheel mounted horizontally, so that only a cresent-shaped piece
>> protrudes from the face of the module... so I need to cut a 3/8" x 2" slot
>> in 1/8" aluminum.  Open to any suggestions for this.  Router with a metal
>> cutting bit?
>>
>You need to get a tool called a "nibbler". Many electronics parts
>stores/catalogs carry them. You simply drill a 1/4" hole then chomp out
>along the outline of the opening. Finally, you dress up any irregularities
>with a file.
>


Hi Ian,

I'm pretty familiar with nibblers (used to work in a sheet metal
fabrication shop).  We had a nice pneumatic one, but it would only cut up
to 18ga mild steel (12ga is approx 1/16", so this is even thinner).  Any
clue if there's a nibbler out there that could handle 1/8" aluminum?  I was
figuring it was too thick for a tool like that.  We never used 1/8" stock,
so I'm not sure what's available.

Dave

Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From sdcurtin at agere.com  Tue Aug 21 16:20:52 2001
From: sdcurtin at agere.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:20:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
Message-ID: <87008FA36E57F041AB826576738ADF5938269A@NJ8650EXCUAG01.ags.agere.com>

Congrantulations, Juergen!

You're at the start of a great experience.  My son is now six and over the
years has had great fun in daddy's workshop playing with "blinky lights".
All of this work has been solder-free with plug-in breadboards.  He may be
one of the few children in Monmouth county who could identify the components
of a circuit board before he was potty trained.

Don't worry about finding time for DIY- one side effect of being a parent is
being able to make use of every scrap of time available.    When Brian was a
year old I built my Theremax over the course of a summer during his naps.
This involved soldering outside in the carport with the baby monitor next to
me.   Doing electronics and computers is good training for this - you've
already learned patience and sleep deprivation ;).

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Agere Systems (formerly
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics)
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at agere.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	jhaible at t-online.de[SMTP:jhaible at t-online.de]
> Sent: 	Monday, August 20, 2001 2:19 PM
> To: 	analogue; diy; motm at egroups.com
> Subject: 	[sdiy] OT: Happy father
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm a proud and happy father:
> 
> Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.
> 
> Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
> delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
> questions in the near future (;->).
> 
> JH.
> 
> 
> 
> 


From debus at cityweb.de  Tue Aug 21 17:08:57 2001
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:08:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CE approval, was MOTM over time
References: <000501c1263b$8890c700$2201a8c0@artist> <00ed01c129ae$a8fbb100$5b79073e@paul>
Message-ID: <3B827987.E762F132@cityweb.de>



Paul Maddox wrote:
> 
> Alex,
> 
>   The other thing :-) as I found out from a CE place..
> if you sell it as a 'prototype' you can sell it WITHOUT CE approval,
> providing you state somewhere in the documents you intend to have it CE
> approved...

Hey that reminds me of Harry Potter. The flying car of Mr Weasley: as
long as someone wasn't intending to fly a car it was allowed to enchant
the car to make it fly. ;-)

Ingo




From debus at cityweb.de  Tue Aug 21 17:17:32 2001
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:17:32 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CV and current Boss guitar multifx boxes?
References: <95.f14b755.28b2ba13@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B827B8A.66656BD0@cityweb.de>



CCartCat at aol.com wrote:
> I must have grounded out the
> Roland/Boss own voltage source.  So I guess that the Tip is the return
> voltage, the Ring the outgoing source voltage and the Sleeve is ground.

I have a Roland A-80 master keyboard. I think all Roland expression
pedal jacks are wired this way.
Yamaha is different: Tip is voltage source and Ring is cv input here.

> But unless totally & continuously grounding out the Roland/Boss voltage
> source is a bad thing

The voltage source of the A-80 is short-circuit proof (but still able to
power a LED in an optical pedal). These jacks are intended to be used
for foot switches (with mono plug) instead of pedals too. In this case
the voltage source is also shorted.

Ingo



From gur_mil at mail.netvision.net.il  Tue Aug 21 17:21:10 2001
From: gur_mil at mail.netvision.net.il (Gur Milstein)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:21:10 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
In-Reply-To: <F200HfqR77bieLYCT4a0000c051@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010821172110.006c6724@mail.netvision.net.il>

Hi Guy's.
check this out :
http://www.ses.co.il/
i use the applic12 to run 8 shift register's as gate sequencer's.
its prety nice .

Gur Milstein





From marmot1 at magma.ca  Tue Aug 21 17:22:48 2001
From: marmot1 at magma.ca (marmot1 at magma.ca)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:22:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
References: <006701c129a4$b2c4c5a0$04f19e3e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <3B827CC8.6935@magma.ca>

Hey Juergen,
Congratulations on the new arrival!
Best Regards, Mike

jh. wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm a proud and happy father:
> 
> Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.
> 
> Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
> delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
> questions in the near future (;->).
> 
> JH.


From blacet at blacet.com  Tue Aug 21 17:33:45 2001
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:33:45 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Nibbler (was:Embedded micros)
References: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
	 <3.0.6.32.20010821084056.0079eb90@hoohahrecords.com> <3.0.6.32.20010821101601.007a9a60@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <3B827F58.BAD8CB46@blacet.com>

The hand held nibbler is useful only up to .060 Al. For .125 material,
you might be stuck with drilling a row of small holes and filing. If you
can find a pal with a milling machine, you'd be better off.

I've sucessfully using milling bits in a drill press to cut slots. You
need a guide bar and eye protection!

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Tue Aug 21 17:44:46 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:44:46 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Thank you (was: OT: Happy father)
Message-ID: <8f.eb165e2.28b3dbee@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/21/01 6:39:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jhaible at t-online.de writes:

<< Heading for the hospital again now, exploring a new (old)
 oscillator technology: MCO (Milk Controlled Oscillator) >>

is it voltage controlable? ; )


From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Tue Aug 21 17:53:23 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:53:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Nibbler (was:Embedded micros)
In-Reply-To: <3B827F58.BAD8CB46@blacet.com>
References: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
 <3.0.6.32.20010821084056.0079eb90@hoohahrecords.com>
 <3.0.6.32.20010821101601.007a9a60@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010821115323.007ab8f0@hoohahrecords.com>

At 08:33 AM 8/21/01 -0700, you wrote:
>The hand held nibbler is useful only up to .060 Al. For .125 material,
>you might be stuck with drilling a row of small holes and filing. If you
>can find a pal with a milling machine, you'd be better off.
>
>I've sucessfully using milling bits in a drill press to cut slots. You
>need a guide bar and eye protection!
>
>Regards,
>___________________
>John Blacet
>Blacet Research
>http://www.blacet.com
>
>

Thanks John,

I saw the nibblers in a few catalogs, but no one gave the spec of how thick
the material could be (seems like an important spec... odd that it wouldn't
be listed).

I have a router... so I may just make a plywood jig to hold my frac rac
face, and do it that way.  I have small metal milling bits, so if I only
cut 1/32" deep on each pass, it should work without killing the bits.  I've
tried the row of holes before, and I've never had great results (as wavy as
the Atlantic) possibly due to near-toxic caffiene levels in my blood.

I always love the sound of milling / engraving metal... my neighbors must
think I practice DIY root canals or something :)   Oh, don't forget the EAR
protection!!  Shame to have a beautiful synth that you can't hear... 

Dave Magnuson


Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From vitreousflux at wwnet.net  Tue Aug 21 18:18:36 2001
From: vitreousflux at wwnet.net (vitreousflux)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:18:36 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Late EFM SBM Questions - VCA and unwanted TL074 oscillation
Message-ID: <000b01c12a5c$ef28c970$0100a8c0@wwnet.net>

Thanks for the tips

I wired up some shielded cable for the problematic modules - helps a bunch.

-----------

on the VCA issue (see below), the resistor change helped lower it, but they
still dont
go silent after cv has dropped.

The trimpots on my vca's don't seem to do anything at all.

I have temporarily resorted to routing the sbm thru an expand gate which
works real nice, but imo that's hardly a real solution..

Anything else I can try?

---------------

I wired all the mixers with shielded wire, the shield taps to ground. Nearly
all the crosstalk is gone, but now that the signal is clean, I can hear
another problem:

I am getting a strange oscillation from the mixer itself.  It seems I get
one sound out of each TL074 chip! I can adjust the mixer pots (even the
unused ones) and the pitch will change. Is this feedback oscillation?
(pardon my lack of opamp theory knowledge)

Is there an easy solution to this?

Thanks guys, this is getting very near completion!

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "tomg at efm" <efm3 at mediaone.net>
To: <EFM_Synth at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: [efm] a few late SBM questions


> Tell ya what.....Try changing the (2) 150K resistors to 100K or 120K
>
> Tom
>
>
> >  > The VCA's work fine, but they don't drop to 'silence' once the
envelope has
> > > finished cycling.
> >
> > Offset trim ??
> >
> > Tom
>




From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Tue Aug 21 18:49:13 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:49:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] analog/digital/etc
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010821114728.00ae14c0@mailhub.verio.net>

My opinion.. the title of the list is Synth-DIY, if it's a synthesizer, 
whether digital or analog or two tubes inside of water, and someone did it 
themselves, then it qualifies. I mean, is a kit DIY? (eww, big debate on 
that one I smell coming)

Joshua


Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From james at ersatzplanet.com  Tue Aug 21 18:52:32 2001
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:52:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] new controller idea...
Message-ID: <B7A7DFE0.1E32%james@ersatzplanet.com>

Here's a neat idea for a controller. Introduced at Siggraph. It uses face
recognition as a control input to a guitar effects rig. Pretty wild. No more
stoic synth players! Take the tech into body recognition!

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991162

-James

-- 
James Husted
The ErsatZ Planet
james at ersatzplanet.com
www.ersatzplanet.com




From Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu  Tue Aug 21 19:14:09 2001
From: Greg.Montalbano at ucop.edu (Greg Montalbano)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:14:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Nibbler (was:Embedded micros)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010821101409.01dcfd5c@popserv.ucop.edu>

One not-quite-as-cool method I've used (those times when I was
in a hurry to get the unit working, and didn't want to spend
FOREVER on the construction) was to do a rough cut-out
(drilled holes, file, etc) and cover it all with a plastic insert.
I actually have quite a collection of these in all shapes & sizes
from the many old devices I've robbed for parts over the years
(just the old cassette decks I've dismantled have supplied me with
a couple of dozen perfectly useful plastic insert rectangles).

Not quite as "finished" as some methods, but it does the job.

~G

>From: Dave Magnuson <resfreq at hoohahrecords.com>
>Thanks John,
>
>I saw the nibblers in a few catalogs, but no one gave the spec of how thick
>the material could be (seems like an important spec... odd that it wouldn't
>be listed).
>
>I have a router... so I may just make a plywood jig to hold my frac rac
>face, and do it that way.  I have small metal milling bits, so if I only
>cut 1/32" deep on each pass, it should work without killing the bits.  I've
>tried the row of holes before, and I've never had great results (as wavy as
>the Atlantic) possibly due to near-toxic caffiene levels in my blood.
>
>I always love the sound of milling / engraving metal... my neighbors must
>think I practice DIY root canals or something :)   Oh, don't forget the EAR
>protection!!  Shame to have a beautiful synth that you can't hear... 
>
>Dave Magnuson
>
>
>Resonant Frequency:
>resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
>http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html
>
>


From moho at mohodisco.com  Tue Aug 21 19:21:37 2001
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:21:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
In-Reply-To: <200108211408.f7LE8SW06466@smtp007.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010821102108.02b17ec0@mohodisco.com>

Children of the Bong have a cool song where they use
baby noises, and even the latest Eat Static album has
some too...

Lava

At 07:08 AM 8/21/01 +0000, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>Hey, baby noises could be used as all sorts of fun
>input.  Sample and s l o w down and you have a wierd
>random voltage LFO.  Cut pieces out and repeat quickly
>and you have an odd waveform VCO.  Catching a nice
>loud belch would be difficult, but maybe make a good
>bass sound...
>
>"Nils Pipenbrinck" <np at inverse-entertainment.de> wrote:
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "jh." <jhaible at t-online.de>
> >> I'm a proud and happy father:
> >
> >Hey, couldn't you put some mp3 samples on your website please? I would like
> >to hear it scream :)
> >
> >Congratulations to you and your wife...
> >
> >    Nils Pipenbrinck
> >
> >
> >
>
>=========================================================
>- Government: The other religion.
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
>-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html



From don at till.com  Tue Aug 21 20:37:14 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:37:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] (diy) MS 20 Ringmod
In-Reply-To: <4845.998377731@www43.gmx.net> (modlar@gmx.de)
Message-ID: <200108211837.LAA12870@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: modlar at gmx.de
   Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:08:51 +0200 (MEST)

   > I don't understand; are you saying that the original four NAND gate
   > circuit is not an XOR?  It's a classic XOR implementation.

   Answered by Rene already !

Yes, two drawing errors in the schematic.  Except that the red dots
are covering them entirely, so there's no way I can tell that the
errors were originally there.  If I fill in what is most logically
under the red dots, there is no error.  So that confused me.

The photograph shows a perf board circuit mounted on top of a
production board, suggesting that you have built up a board to fix a
bug in the MS20.  But if the error is only in the MS20 schematic
drawing, there's no need to fix anything.  So that confused me even
more.

   >Why invert the output?  

   Why not ? Do you hear a difference between a normal or an inverted
   ringmod output ? You must be lucky, if !!!

One of the drawing errors in the original schematic was an inverted
output, so I thought it was a little strange that you were adding an
inversion stage.  Sure, the difference is audible when you mix the
ring modulated signal back in with other signals.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Tue Aug 21 22:22:52 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:22:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros (micro log convertor)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108201544310.3713-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <00f101c12a7f$0ffaea80$73177bd5@paul>

All,

> Why not keep it on-list? It's certainly synth, and certainly diy,

This seems to be the general opinion, so I'll stick with it..
I shant be starting one :-)

Im pleased that this isnt a solely analog list, sometimes I worry that more
and more of my projects are drifting (pun?) away from analog and becoming
more digital and more processor based (though I wont do a softsynth, yuck,
not ever!)

My worry was that posting too many processor related issues would preseant
an issue with people, Im glad it wont..

so, lets start the ball rolling..

Given that a micro with a small ADC and DAC would make a fine Log convertor
(say 14bit ADC and 14bit DAC),
what output should the DAC take? Most VCOs seem to be based around Current
controlled oscillators, so should the output be current?

Of course you then hav ethe argument, why not take it to the next stage?
and get the micro to generate a sawtooth (useing the DAC) that is scalled to
the voltage on the DAC.
This would be good as you could have an even amplitude for the sawtooth ove
rthe whole range.
You would also have an accurately scaled sawtooth, to drive things such as
waveform city and alike.
You could also drop the DAC and put on an eprom ( like the monowave) ..

One of the problems is what resolution to you feel is needed for the output?
The monowave has a resolution of 0.01hz, which is too low to be noticeable,
would 0.1hz be low enough?
and the you have the ever end of teh scale, what frequency is high enough?
8Khz audio?

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 21 22:27:34 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:27:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <F6d9GBx2TG9ctbrBUl00000e09e@hotmail.com>

There are some formats of movie film that have an optical audio track on 
them, they use photoresitors to translate this optical audio track into 
amp-able waves.  I once thought an organ of some kind could be made by 
making a seet of plastic that had one of these kind of tracks on it for 
every key, more or less whatever sound was desired for that note.  You could 
have a small motor which turned a shaft and rolled the sheet (which would 
have to be in a loop), over some photo diodes.  It would be sort of like a 
Mellotron.

Later I read that the Optigan uses disks to do something like this, the I 
saw one at the audio playground, they soud pretty cool.  Since you mention 
using drills to drive a drawbar organ, maybe an optigan-like system could be 
created using a small motor like that.  The only thing I see as a problem is 
somehow isolating each audio producing track from every other audio 
producing track for photoresistors to distinguish them without somesort of 
bleedthrough.  Also, creating a disk with a bunch of opague to clear 
gradients which were perfectly calibrated to make musical scales at a 
particular rotational frequency would be a bitch.

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com>
>To: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Embedded micros
>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:23:41 -0400
>
>At 10:58 PM 8/20/01 , Paul Perry wrote:
>
> >I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog,
> >digital, or mechanical.
>
>Hmm...  Mechanical...
>
>That would include what? Making your own reverb plates and springs?
>Building one's own variable-speed-drill-powered, tonewheel oscillator
>synth? What else? How about a treadle-powered, mechanically bent and bowed,
>musical-saw "theremin"?
>
>Am I even close?  :)
>
>...but seriously, I DO agree with you.
>
>
>Later,
>Glen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From controlkeys at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 21 23:03:46 2001
From: controlkeys at hotmail.com (Bill Keys)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:03:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Message-ID: <F87z02H67yRLVbNDN4C0000c903@hotmail.com>

The Optigan was _Very_ cool! I remember playing one somewhere sometime that 
seems a reallllly long time ago. Of course, (sadly) my el-cheapo Yamaha 
PSR-CRAP does more and with higher fidelity....

I also remember reading somewhere sometime that seems even longer ago in a 
book which proposed something similar to the audio film track method of 
generating waveforms you mentioned. If I remember, it was a monophonic 
proposition intended to allow more than just square, triangle and sawtooth 
waveforms - probably before cheap RAM and ROM was available.

+_+_Yes, honey, I know there are 25 boxes of electronic junk cluttering up 
the attic. They will, one day, magically be transformed into a modular 
synthesizer cluttering up the attic.... www.mp3.com/OriginalSimulacrum _+_+

>From: "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>
>There are some formats of movie film that have an optical audio track on
>them, they use photoresitors to translate this optical audio track into
>amp-able waves.  I once thought an organ of some kind could be made by
>making a seet of plastic that had one of these kind of tracks on it for
>every key, more or less whatever sound was desired for that note.  You 
>could
>have a small motor which turned a shaft and rolled the sheet (which would
>have to be in a loop), over some photo diodes.  It would be sort of like a
>Mellotron.
>
>Later I read that the Optigan uses disks to do something like this, the I
>saw one at the audio playground, they soud pretty cool.  Since you mention
>using drills to drive a drawbar organ, maybe an optigan-like system could 
>be
>created using a small motor like that.  The only thing I see as a problem 
>is
>somehow isolating each audio producing track from every other audio
>producing track for photoresistors to distinguish them without somesort of
>bleedthrough.  Also, creating a disk with a bunch of opague to clear
>gradients which were perfectly calibrated to make musical scales at a
>particular rotational frequency would be a bitch.
>
>         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
>
>
>
>>From: Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com>
>>To: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Embedded micros
>>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:23:41 -0400
>>
>>At 10:58 PM 8/20/01 , Paul Perry wrote:
>>
>> >I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog,
>> >digital, or mechanical.
>>
>>Hmm...  Mechanical...
>>
>>That would include what? Making your own reverb plates and springs?
>>Building one's own variable-speed-drill-powered, tonewheel oscillator
>>synth? What else? How about a treadle-powered, mechanically bent and 
>>bowed,
>>musical-saw "theremin"?
>>
>>Am I even close?  :)
>>
>>...but seriously, I DO agree with you.
>>
>>
>>Later,
>>Glen
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Wed Aug 22 00:01:51 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:01:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] IC needed (ideally in the UK)
Message-ID: <000701c12a8c$e2be60c0$7b6b073e@paul>

Dear all,

 Im trying to find a 74LS379, it seems to be unpopular with the suppliers,
can anyone help?

Many thanks
Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Wed Aug 22 01:08:40 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:08:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
References: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <20010822010840O.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Embedded micros
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:58:37 +1000

> I don't do digital myself, but I'm all in favor of having 
> digital Syn-DIY on the current list.
> In particular, I like to see a PIC exponential convertor
> via lookup table, probably cheaper & easier than the 
> analog way, by the time you get a tempco etc.

Hmm... I think we can do better than straigth lookup tables...

> Considering how much TOTALLY off-topic posts there are,
> I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog, 
> digital, or mechanical.

Agree!

(Tossing rocks in my glas-house)

Cheers,
Magnus



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 22 02:45:10 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:45:10 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] IC needed (ideally in the UK)
References: <000701c12a8c$e2be60c0$7b6b073e@paul>
Message-ID: <001f01c12aa3$b2e56b20$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Available from Conrad
Order-number 17 24 21-24 , Euro 0.84
This is from the Dutch catalog, the -24 may be a different number in
Germany.
www.conrad.com

Not sure if they ship to the UK, but I have to go to Conrad tomorrow.
If you want I can get them for you and sent them over.

Theo



From: Paul Maddox <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>


> Dear all,
>
>  Im trying to find a 74LS379, it seems to be unpopular with the suppliers,
> can anyone help?
>
> Many thanks
> Paul Maddox
> _______________________________________
> Wavesynth home page;-
>     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> PPG Synthesizer pages;-
>     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> Waveterm C Project page;-
>     Http://www.waveterm.com
>
>



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Aug 22 03:18:28 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:18:28 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] (diy) MS 20 Ringmod
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010822011828.008372e8@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 11:37 AM 21/08/01 -0700, Don Tillman  wrote:

>   Why not ? Do you hear a difference between a normal or an inverted
>   ringmod output ? You must be lucky, if !!!
snip
>inversion stage.  Sure, the difference is audible when you mix the
>ring modulated signal back in with other signals.
>
????? the output of a ring modulator doesn't contain the input signals,
so I cant see how you could tell the phase, even by mixing.
Of course, this may not be so, for the bastardised MS20 'ring modulator'!

paul perry melbourne australia



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 22 03:20:19 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:20:19 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
References: <F6d9GBx2TG9ctbrBUl00000e09e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <003701c12aa8$9c091dc0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Phillips used this method in the 1930s for film and audio recording.
Some Dutch radio stations seemed to have used this system at the time.
I once heard a tape copy of one of these optical recordings.
The quality was really amazing for something recorded 70 years ago, far
better than 78 rpm records.

As for your track separation problem:
Some photo transistors have a really small opening,
placing the photo transistors close to the disk will solve your separation
problem.
You would only need one light source for all tracks.

Making the disk should be easy using paintshop pro, photo shop or the like.
If a 6cm diameter disk is enough you can print the image,
make photos with a 6x9 camera and then cut disks from the negatives.
Fitting multiple disks on one spindle maybe a workaround for the limited
disk size.

With multiple disks on one spindle having one disk for each tone is also a
option.
In this case something like a CNY37 could be used as photosensor/light
source combination.
Solving your separation problem on the way.

Alternatively a photographer may be able to print out negatives of your disk
image on large size transparent sheets.

Just some thoughts,
Theo


From: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>



> There are some formats of movie film that have an optical audio track on
> them, they use photoresitors to translate this optical audio track into
> amp-able waves.  I once thought an organ of some kind could be made by
> making a seet of plastic that had one of these kind of tracks on it for
> every key, more or less whatever sound was desired for that note.  You
could
> have a small motor which turned a shaft and rolled the sheet (which would
> have to be in a loop), over some photo diodes.  It would be sort of like a
> Mellotron.
>
> Later I read that the Optigan uses disks to do something like this, the I
> saw one at the audio playground, they soud pretty cool.  Since you mention
> using drills to drive a drawbar organ, maybe an optigan-like system could
be
> created using a small motor like that.  The only thing I see as a problem
is
> somehow isolating each audio producing track from every other audio
> producing track for photoresistors to distinguish them without somesort of
> bleedthrough.  Also, creating a disk with a bunch of opague to clear
> gradients which were perfectly calibrated to make musical scales at a
> particular rotational frequency would be a bitch.
>
>          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
>
>
>
> >From: Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com>
> >To: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >Subject: Re: [sdiy] Embedded micros
> >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:23:41 -0400
> >
> >At 10:58 PM 8/20/01 , Paul Perry wrote:
> >
> > >I look foward to any synth-diy posts whether they are analog,
> > >digital, or mechanical.
> >
> >Hmm...  Mechanical...
> >
> >That would include what? Making your own reverb plates and springs?
> >Building one's own variable-speed-drill-powered, tonewheel oscillator
> >synth? What else? How about a treadle-powered, mechanically bent and
bowed,
> >musical-saw "theremin"?
> >
> >Am I even close?  :)
> >
> >...but seriously, I DO agree with you.
> >
> >
> >Later,
> >Glen
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Wed Aug 22 04:24:36 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:24:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
References: <006701c129a4$b2c4c5a0$04f19e3e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <008101c12ab1$9776ae40$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Congratulations! A new synthesist.


----- Original Message -----
From: jh. <jhaible at t-online.de>
To: analogue <analogue at hyperreal.org>; diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>;
<motm at egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:19 AM
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father


> Hi,
>
> I'm a proud and happy father:
>
> Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.
>
> Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
> delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
> questions in the near future (;->).
>
> JH.
>
>
>
>



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Wed Aug 22 04:26:39 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:26:39 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
References: <002701c129aa$77e41520$5b79073e@paul>
Message-ID: <008901c12ab1$e0cd1840$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

This is a synth list, analog or digital, I think.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Maddox <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
To: Synth DIY LIST <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:01 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros


> Dear all,
>
>   Just as a thought, there seems ot be lot of people into embedded micros
on
> this list.
> Does anyone think it would be worth starting a kind of embedded micro
synth
> list?
>
>   Mainly to dicuss the micro related side of synths, anyone?
>
>  Paul Maddox
> _______________________________________
> Wavesynth home page;-
>     Http://www.wavesynth.com
> Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>     Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> PPG Synthesizer pages;-
>     Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> Waveterm C Project page;-
>     Http://www.waveterm.com
>
>



From elmystico at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 22 04:38:57 2001
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Gavin Russom)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:38:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 sequencer
Message-ID: <200108220239.TAA02714@harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net>


yes theo that's the schematic, thanks a lot for the tip as well.  I was
curious actually looking it over why you need the transistor and second 4093
set up at all,  why you couldn't just tap off a gate signal from the CV
pulses before they go through the pots.  And on that topic why do you need
the op amps to buffer the CV output.  I'm mostly asking because of what I
know I'll learn from the answer than to simplify the schematic, but that
wouldn't be so bad either
thanks
gavin


From jlamb3 at nc.rr.com  Wed Aug 22 05:13:25 2001
From: jlamb3 at nc.rr.com (John Lamb)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:13:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
Message-ID: <MWMail.mkdqjnll@host.none>

I'm interested in building my own delay/reverb effects, and I was wondering what you guys have found to 
be the more economic and / or better sounding optiosn out there.  Any help is appreciated.
Thanks.

John Lamb



From thescum at surfree.com  Wed Aug 22 05:19:36 2001
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:19:36 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010822031936.0090fc0c@smtp.surfree.com>

>I'm interested in building my own delay/reverb effects, and I was wondering
what you guys have found to 
>be the more economic and / or better sounding optiosn out there.  Any help
is appreciated.

Economic:
Spring reverb driven by a one-chip audio power amplifier.  You can use
slinky springs taped or glued to small speakers if you really want to
experiment.  Put 2 speakers on opposite ends of the spring.  Drive one as
you would normally, and wire the other backwards, as a moving coil
microphone.  You can impart some interesting character following the output
with an EQ or compressor.

Or your own take on the "Cooper Time Cube" for delay: a long piece of
tubing, with a speaker at one end, and a mic at the other.

Better sounding:
Look into DSP development kits from Analog Devices, Motorola and TI.  Delay
is pretty simple to get working, reverb can take some tweaking.  If you've
got the processing horsepower, look into convolution against good impule
response samples.

You might also look around at some of the semiconductor companies.  At one
point I know I saw some "dedicated" reverb/deley/multiFX chips from someone.
It might have been Holtek, but National rings a bell, too.  Does anyone else
remember?

Byron Jacquot



From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 22 05:21:16 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:21:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
Message-ID: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com>

Hi, all.  I have come accross some arcrylic paneling laying in the garage.  
It has a protective plastic coating on it and it has some information about 
use.  The sheet claims that it is flammable.  Also, that it expands and 
contracts with heat.  Does anyone have any experience using this substance 
for DIY synth panels?  I think I would rather drill this stuff than metal.  
I could even use my hand crank drill on it.  It seems very durable, plus it 
would be really cool to get to see the synth's guts.  Will this stuff burn 
or melt under the heat of synth circuits?  It freaks me out a little because 
it could ruin my whole project if it melted or burned.

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 22 06:06:01 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:06:01 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
References: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c12abf$c1725420$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Shouldn't it be the same as all other plastic housings?
I've used acrylic sheets but never came across any warnings.
Isn't there the notice "reading these warnings for extended time under less
than optimal light conditions may cause eye problems as been proven in the
state of California"?
If not go sue the bastards ;)

But you may just cut off a piece and heat it up to see what happens.
Better don't use open fire for this, cause then it may indeed catch fire.
A hair dryer maybe a good choice.
This may also be a good opportunity to practice bending and folding the
sheets.

Theo


From: Dr Strangelove <phdinfunk at hotmail.com>



> Hi, all.  I have come accross some arcrylic paneling laying in the garage.
> It has a protective plastic coating on it and it has some information
about
> use.  The sheet claims that it is flammable.  Also, that it expands and
> contracts with heat.  Does anyone have any experience using this substance
> for DIY synth panels?  I think I would rather drill this stuff than metal.
> I could even use my hand crank drill on it.  It seems very durable, plus
it
> would be really cool to get to see the synth's guts.  Will this stuff burn
> or melt under the heat of synth circuits?  It freaks me out a little
because
> it could ruin my whole project if it melted or burned.
>
>          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 22 06:11:58 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:11:58 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
References: <1.5.4.32.20010822031936.0090fc0c@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <003801c12ac0$966874c0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

It has been a while since the last modification,
but if I remember well the reverb IC inside the Roland D50 is from National.

Theo


From: Byron G. Jacquot <thescum at surfree.com>



> >I'm interested in building my own delay/reverb effects, and I was
wondering
> what you guys have found to
> >be the more economic and / or better sounding optiosn out there.  Any
help
> is appreciated.
>
> Economic:
> Spring reverb driven by a one-chip audio power amplifier.  You can use
> slinky springs taped or glued to small speakers if you really want to
> experiment.  Put 2 speakers on opposite ends of the spring.  Drive one as
> you would normally, and wire the other backwards, as a moving coil
> microphone.  You can impart some interesting character following the
output
> with an EQ or compressor.
>
> Or your own take on the "Cooper Time Cube" for delay: a long piece of
> tubing, with a speaker at one end, and a mic at the other.
>
> Better sounding:
> Look into DSP development kits from Analog Devices, Motorola and TI.
Delay
> is pretty simple to get working, reverb can take some tweaking.  If you've
> got the processing horsepower, look into convolution against good impule
> response samples.
>
> You might also look around at some of the semiconductor companies.  At one
> point I know I saw some "dedicated" reverb/deley/multiFX chips from
someone.
> It might have been Holtek, but National rings a bell, too.  Does anyone
else
> remember?
>
> Byron Jacquot
>



From dh at synthstuff.com  Wed Aug 22 06:18:13 2001
From: dh at synthstuff.com (David Halliday)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:18:13 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
In-Reply-To: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c12ac1$7609e820$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>

Consider it to be about as flammable as some paper.  Unless your circuits
catch fire themselves, you should be OK.  The only exception for panel use
is that it scratches very very easily.

Hand tools are fine - start with a small hole ( 3/16" or so ) and use a
larger bit to get the correct size.  Use the protective coating to mark up
( with grease pencil ) where the holes go, drill them with the protective
sheet on to protect from swarf and peel it off when you are completely done.



-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Dr Strangelove
-> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 8:21 PM
-> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
->
->
-> Hi, all.  I have come accross some arcrylic paneling laying
-> in the garage.
-> It has a protective plastic coating on it and it has some
-> information about
-> use.  The sheet claims that it is flammable.  Also, that it
-> expands and
-> contracts with heat.  Does anyone have any experience using
-> this substance
-> for DIY synth panels?  I think I would rather drill this
-> stuff than metal.
-> I could even use my hand crank drill on it.  It seems very
-> durable, plus it
-> would be really cool to get to see the synth's guts.  Will
-> this stuff burn
-> or melt under the heat of synth circuits?  It freaks me out
-> a little because
-> it could ruin my whole project if it melted or burned.
->
->          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
->        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
->
->
->
-> _________________________________________________________________
-> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
-> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
->
->



From moho at mohodisco.com  Wed Aug 22 06:35:23 2001
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:35:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
In-Reply-To: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010821213445.02b20c30@mohodisco.com>

It's very brittle and will crack easily.  To drill it right, you must go and
buy special bits...  I'm pretty sure you won't melt it though...

Lava

At 11:21 PM 8/21/01 -0400, Dr Strangelove wrote:
>Hi, all.  I have come accross some arcrylic paneling laying in the garage.
>It has a protective plastic coating on it and it has some information 
>about use.  The sheet claims that it is flammable.  Also, that it expands 
>and contracts with heat.  Does anyone have any experience using this 
>substance for DIY synth panels?  I think I would rather drill this stuff 
>than metal.
>I could even use my hand crank drill on it.  It seems very durable, plus 
>it would be really cool to get to see the synth's guts.  Will this stuff 
>burn or melt under the heat of synth circuits?  It freaks me out a little 
>because it could ruin my whole project if it melted or burned.
>
>         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From ultrahype at compuserve.com  Wed Aug 22 06:35:26 2001
From: ultrahype at compuserve.com (ultrahype)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:35:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 
Message-ID: <004b01c12ac3$dea18080$0100a8c0@mainsystem>

hi 

i really want to know alot more about the tech side of electronics

i mean i can replace blow componets and stuff like that but i have to say , when you guys get into a whole " the rectifier blah blah polority and the 12345 IC was blah blah " i am pretty blow away

i really would love some guidance as to books or kits , videos, schools, that would take a layman like myself to the NEXT level

thanks so much 

Jim Heinz 
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From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Wed Aug 22 06:39:04 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:39:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] doepfer filters
Message-ID: <l03110705b7a8e524edd6@[213.84.92.34]>

Hia,

I'd like to add a filter to my setup, thinking of a doepfer.
They have several interesting model AFAIC.
moogy: http://www.doepfer.com/a120.htm
oberheimerish: http://www.doepfer.com/a122.htm
I think I like the oberheimer a bit better as it is a bit wilder,
but I dislike that it's resonance can sound apart from the sourceinput.
What's your opinion?

Futhermore, they have a WASP filter http://www.doepfer.com/a124.htm
They say it's dirty. Did you ever hear it? And?
"Module A-124 is a special 12dB multimode filter using the "strange" filter
circuit of the "EDP Wasp" (an analog synthesizer with black/yellow case
built end of the seventies, manufactured by the UK company "Electronic
Dream Plant"). This design "abuses" digital inverters as analog operational
amplifiers leading to distortions and other "dirty" effects that generate
the specific sound of this filter. "

Then there is a 3 in a box, never heard this one either.
http://www.doepfer.com/a127.htm
Internally, each one switchable from BP to LP. Seems a nice
three in a box, but might be a little boring with only 12 dB/O?

Any comments?
Other modules from different brands that are far superior?


Thanks

Dave




----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
-------------------------------------- >^v< -----




From don at till.com  Wed Aug 22 07:09:09 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:09:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] (diy) MS 20 Ringmod
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20010822011828.008372e8@popa.melbpc.org.au> (message
	from Paul Perry on Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:18:28 +1000)
Message-ID: <200108220509.WAA19624@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:18:28 +1000
   From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>

   At 11:37 AM 21/08/01 -0700, Don Tillman  wrote:
   >Sure, the difference is audible when you mix the
   >ring modulated signal back in with other signals.

   ????? the output of a ring modulator doesn't contain the input
   signals, so I cant see how you could tell the phase, even by
   mixing.  

Ohhhh, in the typical case, yeah, that's true.  

If there were other modulated signals in the mix you could tell.  

And if you apply DC to one of the inputs and use the ring modulator as
a voltage controlled inverter, it's pretty easy to tell that the
signal is inverted in the mix.

But now that I think about it some more... I suppose that an inverted
XOR gate is closer to the intent of a ring modulator than a regular
XOR gare.  By that I mean, if we have two inputs that can be either
+1.0 volt or -1.0 volt, and the +1.0 volt translates to a logic 1 and
the -1.0 volt translates to a logic zero, then an inverted XOR gate
matches a multiply operation.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Aug 22 07:34:30 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:34:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy]
References: <004b01c12ac3$dea18080$0100a8c0@mainsystem>
Message-ID: <3B834466.968D4C18@silcom.com>

    Well.....we all started where you are...I started electronics as a
hobby in 1965, at age 13, and I am still learning stuff.  I started back
then by going to the library.  I think I checked out every single book
at both the public library and the school library (both Jr and Senior
High).

    But, books are only the begining, you actually have to do it.  I
remember that a lot of the projects I did early on just didn't work.
That goes with the teritory.  It takes a long time to build up the
skills.

    I am not really sure what a good first book would be, 'The Art of
Electronics' comes to mind, although, I am not too sure how good this is
for a rank beginner.  But, whatever you find in the library is at least
no cost, so take a look.

ultrahype wrote:

>    hi
>
> i really want to know alot more about the tech side of electronics
>
> i mean i can replace blow componets and stuff like that but i have to
> say , when you guys get into a whole " the rectifier blah blah
> polority and the 12345 IC was blah blah " i am pretty blow away
>
> i really would love some guidance as to books or kits , videos,
> schools, that would take a layman like myself to the NEXT level
>
> thanks so much
>
> Jim Heinz

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Aug 22 07:37:02 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:37:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] doepfer filters
References: <l03110705b7a8e524edd6@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <3B8344FE.F69AB663@silcom.com>

    Talk about opening up a can of worms...

Dave Krooshof wrote:

> Hia,
>
> I'd like to add a filter to my setup, thinking of a doepfer.
>

    <snip>

>
> Thanks
>
> Dave
>
> ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
> Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
> geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
> webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
> -------------------------------------- >^v< -----

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From don at till.com  Wed Aug 22 07:47:58 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Spring mounting
In-Reply-To: <000701c1171b$947f2180$0b178ec6@j4g0o7> (shudder@optusnet.com.au)
Message-ID: <200108220547.WAA25405@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: "Sean Ellis" <shudder at optusnet.com.au>
   Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 14:12:00 +1000

   Just wondering if people have any suggestions on the best place to
   mount a spring reverb in a case. It's away from the transformer and
   I can either place it going up (or down) the side or upside down on
   the top. Can't imagine it would make much difference but someone
   may have a preference.

The Accutronics web page covers this.  Go to:
  http://www.accutronicsreverb.com
click on "Applications", click on "Mounting Considerations"...

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Wed Aug 22 07:54:51 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:54:51 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] IC needed (ideally in the UK)
References: <000701c12a8c$e2be60c0$7b6b073e@paul>
Message-ID: <003d01c12ace$f85600e0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

If you can deal with a common enable rather that common reset
you can use a 74LS175. It's a lot more common.

Tom



>  Im trying to find a 74LS379, it seems to be unpopular with the suppliers,
> can anyone help?
> 
> Many thanks
> Paul Maddox




From tpaddock at seanet.com  Wed Aug 22 08:31:32 2001
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:31:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] new midi controller (oral)
Message-ID: <01C12AA5.1E037CC0@dialup-63.214.14.57.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net>

I saw a recorded demo of this or something that sounds 
very similar. It was one of those things you see that made 
my brain scream YES! OF COURSE! 

It measured height and width of the mouth opening. He 
had it controlling a filter for height and distortion for width. 
A guy was playing guitar and wha-wha by making fish mouth 
actions and then grit teeth for fuzz. 
He said it was very natural to use.

Toby Paddock

----------
From: 	Paul Perry[SMTP:pfperry at melbpc.org.au]
Sent: 	Monday, August 20, 2001 3:18 AM
To: 	synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: 	[sdiy] new midi controller (oral)

I see in this week's New Scientist mag (18 Aug, # 2304)
page 20-21:
the "mouthsizer" using a head mounted video camera
uses a facial-recognition algorithm to track the shape of
the players mouth & control midi data accordingly.
To be described at  Siggraph 2001.

paul perry (melbourne Australia)






From music.maker at gte.net  Wed Aug 22 07:37:33 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:37:33
Subject: [sdiy] motors (was Embedded micros)
Message-ID: <200108221438.f7MEceC13311@smtp008.mailsrvcs.net>

Very true.  AFAIK, only motors with permanent magnets
for the field will generate current independantly.

Many moons ago, I worked for Digital Equipment Corp.
I have 2 DC motors from a DEC line printer that were
used to move the ribbon.  I used to play with these
connected together, turning one would generate enough
current to cause the other to turn at almost the same
rate.  The puzzling part was the number of other techs
that were amazed by this and didn't know why it worked.

sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone) wrote:
>The easiest way is to turn the shaft, note the physical resistance, then
>short the output and try again. It should be a lot heavier to turn.
>Generally motors with magnets in them will work, but those without will not.
>(unless you plan to endergise the field coil separately, then they will
>too.) Stick to DC motors of the brushed type. Stepper motors will also work,
>though you will probably get AC out of them.
>
>>>Actually, I've been toying with a "mechanical" module the last few days.  I
>>>have a motor from an old Laser Disc Player that conveniently works as a DC
>>>generator.  It has a 3.5" diameter wheel attached to the top that I'm
>>>planning to weight with lead-free solder for a little more inertia.
>>
>>I've been wanting to do something like this for a while now.  Anybody 
>>know if there's an easy way to tell if a particular DC motor will 
>>also work as a generator?  How about AC motors?  And I mean besides 
>>using a voltmeter (like if I'm rummaging through trash or in a 
>>surplus or junk store).  Is there any particular kind of motor which 
>>does/does not function both ways?
>>
>>I haven't messed much with DC ones, but I know a lot of the AC motors 
>>I've tried will not generate.  I wanted to take an old turntable of 
>>mine and mount a bunch of AC motors on it so the turntable would turn 
>>their shafts.  By varying the turning speed of the turntable and 
>>position of the motors, I could get them to emit tones in and out of 
>>harmony with each other.  I think it would make a nice sine wave 
>>generator.  Is this feasable with any existing AC motors?
>>
>>-Tavys
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
>Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
>Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
>Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html





From bigtex at cwnet.com  Wed Aug 22 09:48:53 2001
From: bigtex at cwnet.com (Tavys Ashcroft)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:48:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] motors (was Embedded micros)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010821084056.0079eb90@hoohahrecords.com>
References: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
 <3.0.6.32.20010821084056.0079eb90@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <v04220800b7a91350c29f@[209.21.20.209]>

>Actually, I've been toying with a "mechanical" module the last few days.  I
>have a motor from an old Laser Disc Player that conveniently works as a DC
>generator.  It has a 3.5" diameter wheel attached to the top that I'm
>planning to weight with lead-free solder for a little more inertia.

I've been wanting to do something like this for a while now.  Anybody 
know if there's an easy way to tell if a particular DC motor will 
also work as a generator?  How about AC motors?  And I mean besides 
using a voltmeter (like if I'm rummaging through trash or in a 
surplus or junk store).  Is there any particular kind of motor which 
does/does not function both ways?

I haven't messed much with DC ones, but I know a lot of the AC motors 
I've tried will not generate.  I wanted to take an old turntable of 
mine and mount a bunch of AC motors on it so the turntable would turn 
their shafts.  By varying the turning speed of the turntable and 
position of the motors, I could get them to emit tones in and out of 
harmony with each other.  I think it would make a nice sine wave 
generator.  Is this feasable with any existing AC motors?

-Tavys



From bigtex at cwnet.com  Wed Aug 22 09:54:26 2001
From: bigtex at cwnet.com (Tavys Ashcroft)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:54:26 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Nibbler (was:Embedded micros)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010821101601.007a9a60@hoohahrecords.com>
References: <1.5.4.32.20010821025837.0082f850@popa.melbpc.org.au>
 <3.0.6.32.20010821084056.0079eb90@hoohahrecords.com>
 <3.0.6.32.20010821101601.007a9a60@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <v04220802b7a915a54eca@[209.21.20.11]>

>I'm pretty familiar with nibblers (used to work in a sheet metal
>fabrication shop).  We had a nice pneumatic one, but it would only cut up
>to 18ga mild steel (12ga is approx 1/16", so this is even thinner).  Any
>clue if there's a nibbler out there that could handle 1/8" aluminum?  I was
>figuring it was too thick for a tool like that.  We never used 1/8" stock,
>so I'm not sure what's available.

Well, I got lucky and found a Rotex punch in the junkpile courtyard 
at the San Jose State University engineering building.  Rotex makes 
really nice punches.  I have a much larger Rotex at my disposal at 
work which is a turret punch.  The turret rotates to select your 
cutting dies.  The smaller one I found just has one die in it, but 
it's perfect for nibbling thru metal.  I haven't tested it's limits, 
but it's pretty beefy.  So, if this is any help to you, try searching 
for something by Rotex.

-Tavys



From music.maker at gte.net  Wed Aug 22 08:34:10 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:34:10
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register
Message-ID: <200108221537.f7MFbh703968@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net>

Since the spec says 20mhz tops, I doubt if that's an issue
since the delay would be so short as to be unusable for
audio.  The question is how well, if at all, it
would work below 10mhz.  Since each bucket is really
a capacitor, the low clocking end would be determined
by how quickly the capacitor's charge bleeds off due
to internal leakage.  For 10mhz-20mhz, the caps would
be very very small.  At low clock rates, the charge may
be all but completely gone by the time the clock tries
to shift one bucket to the next.  There may be other
reasons as well, but at the least, one can assume they
assigned the specs the way they did for good reason.
I read the same explanation for clock speed limitations
in a microprocessor spec that stated the MPU (MC6800)
had dynamic registers (needs refresh) and that the chip
would not be reliable below 500khz.

"Atom 'Smasher'" <atom at suspicious.org> wrote:
>expensive.... i once picked up an MXR analog delay for less than that.
>(and a few DOD analog delays for ~WAY~ less)
>
>anyway, i'm not sure if my math is right....
>
>dual 455 stage = 910 stages  (?)
>(we can round this to 1000 stages?)
>
>so, 1000 stages @ 10KHz clock = 1.0sec delay ???
>		@ 20KHz clock = 0.5sec delay ???
>		@ 40KHz clock = 0.25sec dealy ???
>
>what determines the max (usable) frequency?
>
>also, a quick search of http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ dosen't come up with
>anything for that part number.... that's not encouraging.
>
>
>============================================================
>> Took a look through a 1985 Fairchild CCD Imaging databook and saw this:
>> the CCD321 - a dual 455-stage analog shift register in a 16-pin ceramic
>> package - one version is intended for audio use. Requires 3 clocks, and
>> sample rate is spec'd for 10 KHz to 20 MHz. This chip is still in
>> production, and may be obtained from www.fairchildimaging.com at 120
>> dollars US a pop. Anyone ever try one of these for audio?
>
>
>	...atom
>
>----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
>http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
>
>	"Freedom without opportunity is a devil's gift, and the
>	 refusal to provide such opportunities is criminal"
>		-- Market Democracy in a Neoliberal Order:
>			Doctrines and Reality, Noam Chomsky
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From sasami at blaze.net.au  Wed Aug 22 10:51:15 2001
From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:51:15 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] motors (was Embedded micros)
Message-ID: <200108220851.f7M8pE422204@blaze.net.au>

The easiest way is to turn the shaft, note the physical resistance, then
short the output and try again. It should be a lot heavier to turn.
Generally motors with magnets in them will work, but those without will not.
(unless you plan to endergise the field coil separately, then they will
too.) Stick to DC motors of the brushed type. Stepper motors will also work,
though you will probably get AC out of them.

>>Actually, I've been toying with a "mechanical" module the last few days.  I
>>have a motor from an old Laser Disc Player that conveniently works as a DC
>>generator.  It has a 3.5" diameter wheel attached to the top that I'm
>>planning to weight with lead-free solder for a little more inertia.
>
>I've been wanting to do something like this for a while now.  Anybody 
>know if there's an easy way to tell if a particular DC motor will 
>also work as a generator?  How about AC motors?  And I mean besides 
>using a voltmeter (like if I'm rummaging through trash or in a 
>surplus or junk store).  Is there any particular kind of motor which 
>does/does not function both ways?
>
>I haven't messed much with DC ones, but I know a lot of the AC motors 
>I've tried will not generate.  I wanted to take an old turntable of 
>mine and mount a bunch of AC motors on it so the turntable would turn 
>their shafts.  By varying the turning speed of the turntable and 
>position of the motors, I could get them to emit tones in and out of 
>harmony with each other.  I think it would make a nice sine wave 
>generator.  Is this feasable with any existing AC motors?
>
>-Tavys
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From thomas at roundhouse.se  Wed Aug 22 10:56:15 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:56:15 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] IC needed (ideally in the UK)
In-Reply-To: <000701c12a8c$e2be60c0$7b6b073e@paul>
References: <000701c12a8c$e2be60c0$7b6b073e@paul>
Message-ID: <v04220801b7a9229d004b@[213.112.172.155]>

> Dear all,
>
>  Im trying to find a 74LS379, it seems to be unpopular with the suppliers,
> can anyone help?
>
> Many thanks
> Paul Maddox

I found these places on the WWW:

Purchase:
http://www.web-tronics.com/ls379.html
http://www.atexelectronics.com/Actives/74LS00.htm
http://www.debco.com/db_online/74ls.htm
http://www.electradeshop.com/ic_e.htm

More info:
http://www.ece.uvic.ca/lab/ceng290/datasheets/74ls379.html

I am sure there are more suppliers out there. Just
go to http://www.google.com and type "74LS379" in
the search field and you'll get plenty of hits.

Of course - just because they say they have the
component in stock doesn't mean that they actually
do. :-)

/Thomas
___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From jhaible at t-online.de  Wed Aug 22 10:57:29 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:57:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] doepfer filters
References: <l03110705b7a8e524edd6@[213.84.92.34]> <3B8344FE.F69AB663@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <009101c12ae8$7dcab360$11f39e3e@debitel.net>

Oh yes, tell him about d*pfer filters (I myself won't), but I'd
suggest you all do it off-list.

JH.

>     Talk about opening up a can of worms...
>
> Dave Krooshof wrote:
>
> > Hia,
> >
> > I'd like to add a filter to my setup, thinking of a doepfer.






From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Wed Aug 22 11:38:17 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:38:17 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] why souldn't I say d*? was: doepfer filters 
In-Reply-To: <009101c12ae8$7dcab360$11f39e3e@debitel.net>
References: <l03110705b7a8e524edd6@[213.84.92.34]>
 <3B8344FE.F69AB663@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <l03110700b7a92b0a2f40@[213.84.92.34]>

>Oh yes, tell him about d*pfer filters (I myself won't), but I'd
>suggest you all do it off-list.

>Talk about opening up a can of worms...

OK.
Sorry, for the worms.
But what's going on here? Shouldn't I say Doepfer on the list?
I just came a across that name. haven't seen or heard one IRL.

I do not care weather it's D* or not, I would have liked a comment
on thinks like:
>>"This design "abuses" digital inverters as analog operational
>>amplifiers leading to distortions and other "dirty" effects that generate
>>the specific sound of this filter. "
A comment like "Both the Wasp and D* suck, because..." would clarify
your reactions.

Dave




From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Wed Aug 22 11:51:27 2001
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:51:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
References: <1.5.4.32.20010822031936.0090fc0c@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <004101c12af0$036123e0$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Byron G. Jacquot" <thescum at surfree.com>

> You might also look around at some of the semiconductor companies.  At one
> point I know I saw some "dedicated" reverb/deley/multiFX chips from
someone.
> It might have been Holtek, but National rings a bell, too.  Does anyone
else
> remember?

I remember those.. They contained some simple equalizer presets, volume
control, fake karaoke stereo-cancelling and some post-processing effects
like reverb, delay and even chorus. Ah.. and it was not possible to tweak
any of the parameters..

I really wonder that they run a dedicated chip for karaoke machines..

    Nils Pipenbrinck





From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Wed Aug 22 12:11:31 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:11:31 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
In-Reply-To: <002a01c12abf$c1725420$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
References: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <l03110701b7a930a07f9c@[213.84.92.34]>

>>The sheet claims that it is flammable.
I think it says that because as it isn't glass, people can't use it like glass.

>> Also, that it expands and contracts with heat.
we all do. But aren't displaywindows of similar stuff? I wouldn't worry.

Me and a friend have used it, to make hand movements on knobs
visible for the audience. It didn't catch flame (you'll need more heat)
and it doesn't melt at all in theatrical light and operation.
Also, it didn't expand more then the other materials in the boxes.

It's a bit of a pain to drill in it, unless you use a new, sharp drill
and a stable rotation. A handdrill is OK. Take care that you do
not use to much force, as you might get cracks. Put it on a flat
piece of wood for flat support when you drill. Start off with
very small drills, and work you way up with factors of 3 in
drillsize to the desired width. Once you have
made a perfect hole, the stuff is as durable as it was.
It's only the very local pressure that makes it crack.

As for resizing:
Use a good saw, sharp, small teeth. saw by hand.
Or use a fast, small theeth circular saw.
The people at the shop told us they cut a line in it, and then break
it over the line. We did not succeed in that. You might think of a
way to mount it on the box in such way that you can hide the edges...

It scratches easily though, so take that into account that
you'll notice how much you use it.
And leave the protective information on it while working!


HTH

Dave




From dupfur at gmx.de  Wed Aug 22 12:17:47 2001
From: dupfur at gmx.de (Norbert Kleiber)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:17:47 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Dopfer filter
Message-ID: <16975.998475467@www12.gmx.net>

Hi !

Theres NOTHING special on dopfer filters.
A120 : Moog cascade, nothing more
A121 - A 123 : CEM 3320 based, just read the datasheets for the chip
A124 : WASP Filter : ask J?rgen Haible, HE "digged" it out (or look at his
HP)
A103 : Tony Allgoods TB3030 filter is MUCH MUCH better !!!!!!
A104 : Not very useful : much better to built four 12 dB Bandpassfilters,
then you
       can change the Frequency per Voltage too, not only manually.
A105 : look at Tony Allgoods multi ladder filter, SAME functionality !!!!!!

Norbert

-- 
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net




From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Wed Aug 22 13:07:46 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:07:46 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Doepfer filter
In-Reply-To: <16975.998475467@www12.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <l03110704b7a94035297e@[213.84.92.34]>

>Theres NOTHING special on dopfer filters.
*Thanks*, exactly what I needed to hear.

>A104 : Not very useful : much better to built four 12 dB Bandpassfilters,
>then you can change the Frequency per Voltage too, not only manually.
I guess Doepfer is on the safe edge of things. Building a filterset without
CV is a concept tat already seemed ancient when the trautonium was hip.
Any hints where I can obtain a rough filter?

>J?rgen Haible, Tony Allgood...
Thanks for the hints, I'll google about.




From matti at devo.com  Wed Aug 22 13:12:18 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:12:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] why souldn't I say d*? was: doepfer filters 
In-Reply-To: <l03110700b7a92b0a2f40@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108220707040.25024-100000@whipit.devo.com>

y
DFoepfer is reputed to have stolen several designs fromom people on the
ineternet, I believe on or two on this list, without giving due credit. I
say reputed, because I myself haven't seen any hard proof.

Anyway, try www.synthtech.com, www.blacet.com, www.wiard.com, www.paia.com

Also, if there are mutliple filters in the box, it's a simple amtter to
combine them all, for, say, a 36dB lowpass. Throw in some homebrew
subtractors for some real fun.



On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Dave Krooshof wrote:

> >Oh yes, tell him about d*pfer filters (I myself won't), but I'd
> >suggest you all do it off-list.
>
> >Talk about opening up a can of worms...
>
> OK.
> Sorry, for the worms.
> But what's going on here? Shouldn't I say Doepfer on the list?
> I just came a across that name. haven't seen or heard one IRL.
>
> I do not care weather it's D* or not, I would have liked a comment
> on thinks like:
> >>"This design "abuses" digital inverters as analog operational
> >>amplifiers leading to distortions and other "dirty" effects that generate
> >>the specific sound of this filter. "
> A comment like "Both the Wasp and D* suck, because..." would clarify
> your reactions.
>
> Dave
>
>

-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Wed Aug 22 13:16:57 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:16:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] why souldn't I say d*? was: doepfer filters
In-Reply-To: <003501c12afb$859559c0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
References:  <l03110705b7a8e524edd6@[213.84.92.34]><3B8344FE.F69AB663@silcom.com>
 <l03110700b7a92b0a2f40@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <l03110705b7a944391b5b@[213.84.92.34]>

Theo just informed me on some behaviours of Doepfer.
Buying of them is out of the question!
Now I understand the worm part, and I now understand Norberts mail better.


>Dave,
>Doepfer heeft al verschillende keren schema's gejat van mensen op de DIY
>list. Het meest duidelijk van Jurgen en Tomg.
Dank je wel Theo!

----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
-------------------------------------- >^v< -----




From music.maker at gte.net  Wed Aug 22 11:41:44 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:41:44
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register
Message-ID: <200108221846.f7MIkf707346@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net>

harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
>Sorry I was away for a couple days on business.
>
>Catching up on my e-mail
>
>BBD's SUCK   (BBD's Suger)

That may be true, but what if you WANT a cheesey sound?

Then, you would want to find designs that suck and parts
that suck.  So for some applications, a BBD might be
*PERFECT*.

>H^)  harry
>
>
>>From: marmot1 at magma.ca
>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>CC: music.maker at gte.net
>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register
>>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:33:52 -0400
>>
>>Hi Scott and List,
>>Take a look at www.fairchildimaging.com for a liitle bit of info on the
>>chip - and a picture. My 1985 Fairchild CCD Imaging book shows 4
>>versions of the CCD321 - the CCD321A-4 is tested for specs pertinent to
>>audio, while the -1, -2, -3 versions are tested for specs pertinent to
>>video delays and timebase compression/expansion. The CCD321A-4 is spec'd
>>at 65 dB S/N ratio at  23 KHz BW and a clock freq of 50 KHz. Not great
>>but similar to regular BBD's. The notes also say that the chip may be
>>clocked below 10 KHz and above 20 MHz without damage, although the
>>performance will not be as good. With a total of 910 stages, the range
>>of delay times obtainable would be similar to what could be obtained
>>with the Reticon SAD1024 (10 MHz max clock rate IIRC), although somewhat
>>shorter delays could be obtained when run at full speed. Wonder if this
>>was the mystery delay chip used in the Marshall Time Modulator? It might
>>have been introduced earlier than the Reticon/Panasonic/ITT-Valvo BBD's.
>>Regards, Mike
>>120
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From marmot1 at magma.ca  Wed Aug 22 16:03:05 2001
From: marmot1 at magma.ca (marmot1 at magma.ca)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:03:05 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register 
References: <l03110704b7a94035297e@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <3B83BB99.7410@magma.ca>

Hi List,
Took a look through a 1985 Fairchild CCD Imaging databook and saw this:
the CCD321 - a dual 455-stage analog shift register in a 16-pin ceramic 
package - one version is intended for audio use. Requires 3 clocks, and 
sample rate is spec'd for 10 KHz to 20 MHz. This chip is still in 
production, and may be obtained from www.fairchildimaging.com at 120 
dollars US a pop. Anyone ever try one of these for audio?
Regards, Mike


From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Wed Aug 22 16:57:09 2001
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:57:09 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register 
References: <l03110704b7a94035297e@[213.84.92.34]> <3B83BB99.7410@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <000701c12b1a$b7c26900$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>

----- Original Message -----
From: <marmot1 at magma.ca>

> Took a look through a 1985 Fairchild CCD Imaging databook and saw this:
> the CCD321 - a dual 455-stage analog shift register in a 16-pin ceramic
> package - one version is intended for audio use. Requires 3 clocks, and
> sample rate is spec'd for 10 KHz to 20 MHz. This chip is still in
> production.

Horray! They still manufacture BBD's. So we can continue tortuing Harry with
more BBD discussions.

Besides.. I own a very cheap analog flanger who uses BBD's .. and I like the
cheesy sound it does, Yes, I love noise and aliasing, and the sweet kind of
lofi distortion it makes.

    Nils Pipenbrinck





From atom at suspicious.org  Wed Aug 22 17:04:59 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:04:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register 
In-Reply-To: <3B83BB99.7410@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108221055220.6324-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

expensive.... i once picked up an MXR analog delay for less than that.
(and a few DOD analog delays for ~WAY~ less)

anyway, i'm not sure if my math is right....

dual 455 stage = 910 stages  (?)
(we can round this to 1000 stages?)

so, 1000 stages @ 10KHz clock = 1.0sec delay ???
		@ 20KHz clock = 0.5sec delay ???
		@ 40KHz clock = 0.25sec dealy ???

what determines the max (usable) frequency?

also, a quick search of http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ dosen't come up with
anything for that part number.... that's not encouraging.


============================================================
> Took a look through a 1985 Fairchild CCD Imaging databook and saw this:
> the CCD321 - a dual 455-stage analog shift register in a 16-pin ceramic
> package - one version is intended for audio use. Requires 3 clocks, and
> sample rate is spec'd for 10 KHz to 20 MHz. This chip is still in
> production, and may be obtained from www.fairchildimaging.com at 120
> dollars US a pop. Anyone ever try one of these for audio?


	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Freedom without opportunity is a devil's gift, and the
	 refusal to provide such opportunities is criminal"
		-- Market Democracy in a Neoliberal Order:
			Doctrines and Reality, Noam Chomsky




From music.maker at gte.net  Wed Aug 22 15:24:20 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:24:20
Subject: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
Message-ID: <200108222225.f7MMPaq02071@smtp006.mailsrvcs.net>

"Paul Maddox" <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>> Or your own take on the "Cooper Time Cube" for delay: a long piece of
>> tubing, with a speaker at one end, and a mic at the other.
>
>this sounds so good, even if the tube ends up about 10 meters long to get a
>good time, its such an odd sound...

I remember as a child, I would take the garden hose and empty all
the water out of it.  Then I would put one end to my ear and 
speak into other end.  Very odd sound indeed and noticable delay.

I wonder if a wooden box with a folded 'wave guide' inside made
of wooden walls would sound different?  better?  worse?  

I've often wondered about acoustic filters made of wood, with 
baffles movable from outside the box.

[...]

>Paul Maddox
>_______________________________________
>Wavesynth home page;-
>    Http://www.wavesynth.com
>Modulus synthesizers home page;-
>    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
>PPG Synthesizer pages;-
>    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
>Waveterm C Project page;-
>    Http://www.waveterm.com
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From tlaskows at student.math.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Aug 22 18:04:28 2001
From: tlaskows at student.math.uwaterloo.ca (Thomas Laskowski)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108221055220.6324-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.05.10108221202520.19372-100000@lassar.math.uwaterloo.ca>

Hello,

For 1000 stages, wouldnt that only allow for 0.1 second of delay at 10khz
not 1 second?

If so, then it it way too expensive. 

Thomas

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Atom 'Smasher' wrote:

> expensive.... i once picked up an MXR analog delay for less than that.
> (and a few DOD analog delays for ~WAY~ less)
> 
> anyway, i'm not sure if my math is right....
> 
> dual 455 stage = 910 stages  (?)
> (we can round this to 1000 stages?)
> 
> so, 1000 stages @ 10KHz clock = 1.0sec delay ???
> 		@ 20KHz clock = 0.5sec delay ???
> 		@ 40KHz clock = 0.25sec dealy ???
> 
> what determines the max (usable) frequency?
> 
> also, a quick search of http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ dosen't come up with
> anything for that part number.... that's not encouraging.
> 
> 
> ============================================================
> > Took a look through a 1985 Fairchild CCD Imaging databook and saw this:
> > the CCD321 - a dual 455-stage analog shift register in a 16-pin ceramic
> > package - one version is intended for audio use. Requires 3 clocks, and
> > sample rate is spec'd for 10 KHz to 20 MHz. This chip is still in
> > production, and may be obtained from www.fairchildimaging.com at 120
> > dollars US a pop. Anyone ever try one of these for audio?
> 
> 
> 	...atom
> 
> ----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
> http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
> 
> 	"Freedom without opportunity is a devil's gift, and the
> 	 refusal to provide such opportunities is criminal"
> 		-- Market Democracy in a Neoliberal Order:
> 			Doctrines and Reality, Noam Chomsky
> 
> 



From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Wed Aug 22 18:29:13 2001
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:29:13 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register 
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108221055220.6324-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <001101c12b27$94f52fe0$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Atom 'Smasher'" <atom at suspicious.org>

> expensive.... i once picked up an MXR analog delay for less than that.
> (and a few DOD analog delays for ~WAY~ less)

Yes, but it's getting hard to find the old BBD chips these days.. Finding a
chip that's in production is a good news, and I think (or better guess) the
specs of the new chip are a lot better than those old BBD-veterans.

> also, a quick search of http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ dosen't come up with
> anything for that part number.... that's not encouraging.

You'll better try fairchild-imaging. Here's a link to the product page:

http://www.fairchildimaging.com/main/linear_321.htm

Have fun,

    Nils



From atom at suspicious.org  Wed Aug 22 19:20:23 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:20:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register 
In-Reply-To: <001101c12b27$94f52fe0$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108221317500.6324-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

> http://www.fairchildimaging.com/main/linear_321.htm
====================================

S/N = 65db

is that any better than the old ones?

i'm still not sure how much time @ what cutoff freq could be had with 910
stages.

	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it
	 people will eventually come to believe it."
		-- Joseph Goebbels (Nazi Minister of Propaganda)




From marmot1 at magma.ca  Wed Aug 22 19:33:52 2001
From: marmot1 at magma.ca (marmot1 at magma.ca)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:33:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register
References: <200108221537.f7MFbh703968@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <3B83ED00.168A@magma.ca>

Hi Scott and List,
Take a look at www.fairchildimaging.com for a liitle bit of info on the 
chip - and a picture. My 1985 Fairchild CCD Imaging book shows 4 
versions of the CCD321 - the CCD321A-4 is tested for specs pertinent to 
audio, while the -1, -2, -3 versions are tested for specs pertinent to 
video delays and timebase compression/expansion. The CCD321A-4 is spec'd 
at 65 dB S/N ratio at  23 KHz BW and a clock freq of 50 KHz. Not great 
but similar to regular BBD's. The notes also say that the chip may be 
clocked below 10 KHz and above 20 MHz without damage, although the 
performance will not be as good. With a total of 910 stages, the range 
of delay times obtainable would be similar to what could be obtained 
with the Reticon SAD1024 (10 MHz max clock rate IIRC), although somewhat 
shorter delays could be obtained when run at full speed. Wonder if this 
was the mystery delay chip used in the Marshall Time Modulator? It might 
have been introduced earlier than the Reticon/Panasonic/ITT-Valvo BBD's.
Regards, Mike
120


From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Aug 22 19:42:06 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:42:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] BBD for delay and other things
In-Reply-To: <MWMail.bhekciem@host.none>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010822130010.20718A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Speaking of tape echo, is there a tape loop cartridge similar to the 
> echoplex cartridge that will fit over a standard home-stereo 
> audiocasette head?  I'm on a quest for analog echoes, and if I have to 
> resort to tape delay, I'd rather do it via commodity components from 
> busted tape decks instead of building an echoplex and using those 
> funny cartidges. 

   Heh.  Well if you are adventurous enough, you could buy an old 
8-track player to modify, specifically one that can record.  8-tracks are 
cheap and cartridges a dime a dozen (literally!).
   There's a lot of modification that would have to be done to get it to 
work though.  The heads have to be reversed around so that the 
record/erase head is in front of the playback head.  In fact, depending 
on how keen you are on the audio quality, the heads should be replaced 
with two-track versions for better bandwidth.
   You'll probably also want to figure out how to adjust the speed of 
play to get different delay times out. 
   The cartridges of an 8-track have a special metal splice in the tape 
that signals the player to switch tracks.  It will have to be removed and 
the tape respliced.  Easy enough to do since I doubt anyone would need 
all the tape that's in one of those things anyway!
   You could also probably do this with a conventional tape player, but 
it would be harder to set up a continuous loop tape with one of those.  
Besides, 8-tracks are bigger and probably easier to work on.  :)
   It'd probably be far easier to buy an old reel-style tape recorder to 
do this on, but I like the compact space that a small 8-track unit takes 
up.  :)
   Anyone ever seen or done anything like this?

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Wed Aug 22 19:43:36 2001
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Christian)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:43:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
Message-ID: <t5r7otsmptse71qcq879ej8uukoi574pn9@4ax.com>

Hi

I am a newbie when it comes to VCO's, although I have been working
with electronics for over 20 years. If it isn't a 555 or a two
transistor astable, I am stumped!

I have recently (the past week) built a VCO circuit, but the darned
thing does not oscillate. I wonder if anyone could help me out.
The circuit is this one:

http://www.evenfall.com/diy/vco2061.gif

I am using a Transistor array for the Expo, and all the IC's are
socketed so I can isolate or replace them.

I have closely examined my board for errors etc three times, but all
seems well (although it isn't ).

Could someone help me out with:

a) What sort of CV do I input into the first summing OP-Amp for a
decent audiable tone for test purposes? (Middle C or 1000Hz etc?)

b) Is there a way of just making sure that the Oscillator (CA2140) is
oscillating without worrying about all the additional circuitry,
especially the EXPO and SYNC circuits.

c) I think there is an error in that circuit diagram - The Sync input
should go to the Diff-Amps non-inverting input. I believe the inputs
are the wrong way around on the LM311.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Christian.



From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Aug 22 20:00:36 2001
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:00:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Embedded micros
References: <F6d9GBx2TG9ctbrBUl00000e09e@hotmail.com> <003701c12aa8$9c091dc0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <000001c12b51$5e0648a0$e900893e@default>


> Phillips used this method in the 1930s for film and audio recording.
> Some Dutch radio stations seemed to have used this system at the time.
> I once heard a tape copy of one of these optical recordings.
> The quality was really amazing for something recorded 70 years ago, far
> better than 78 rpm records.

You're may be referring to the Phillips Miller (sp?) machines.
Radio Luxembourg had some, which were "rescued" during the early
part of WW2 before the Germans got to them and installed in the 
BBC studios at Maida Vale, London.  It used a sapphire stylus to etch
a track onto the film, and it was read optically.  Two Dutch diamond 
cutters who had also fled before the Germans had a room in the 
ex convent next door where they came every week to regrind the styli.
I think this information is accurate - I heard it from an elderly woman
who used to work there.

There were also some optical organs using patterns cut into disks,
but they were never as successful as the Hammond tonewheels or
Compton electrostatic system.  (Comptons also came up with the
rotating speaker idea several years before Leslie, but they didn't 
bother patenting it because they thought it would never catch on...)

There was also some interesting work on optical waveform generation
done by Daphne Oram.



Steve Ridley






From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Aug 22 20:06:39 2001
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:06:39 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
Message-ID: <3b83f4af.c92.0@telusplanet.net>

>I'm interested in building my own delay/reverb effects, and I was wondering
what you guys have found to 
>be the more economic and / or better sounding optiosn out there.

For inexpensive, check out:

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/epeasant/projects/springs/springs.html

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Aug 22 20:11:19 2001
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:11:19 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] CX7932 BBDs
Message-ID: <3b83f5c7.1258.0@telusplanet.net>

Speaking of BBDs, does anyone have a datasheet or any schematics using CX7932
BBD chips? I have 3 of these I'd like to use, but without data they are not
much good.

Thank you,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Aug 22 20:16:11 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:16:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
In-Reply-To: <t5r7otsmptse71qcq879ej8uukoi574pn9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010822134442.20718B-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> a) What sort of CV do I input into the first summing OP-Amp for a
> decent audiable tone for test purposes? (Middle C or 1000Hz etc?)

   If you have a trim-pot in there for frequency trim, then it isn't 
necessary to put an extra CV in.  Just adjust the trim-pot (TR1 on 
schematic).

> b) Is there a way of just making sure that the Oscillator (CA2140) is
> oscillating without worrying about all the additional circuitry,
> especially the EXPO and SYNC circuits.

   First test the output of your exponential converter.  I do this by 
putting a 10k resistor from the output to ground.  Then measure the 
voltage across the resistor.  The output is very small, but it should 
behave in an exponential manner as you sweep the CV in from 0-10V.
   Next, check the output of IC6 and confirm that it's at -V (off state). 
If it is near or at 0V, then the FET (Q2) is turned on and is holding 
the VCO in a reset state.  Typically in operation, the LM311 will start 
rising from -V to 0V and at the moment the FET starts to conduct, the 
output of the CA3140 will drop, causing the LM311 to reset back to -V.  
   BTW, the faster the LM311 can turn on the FET, the faster the reset 
portion of the sawtooth wave will be.  I would recommend reducing R16 
from 680 down to 220 ohms (or remove it, I haven't found it necessary) 
and reduce R20 from 3.3K to 2.2K.  You can lower R20 down to 1.0K, but 
at -15V, it'd run about 1/4W, so it will get rather warm!  Having a 
faster reset in the sawtooth wave will give you a truer saw plus will 
let the waveshaper produce a better triangle waveform.

> c) I think there is an error in that circuit diagram - The Sync input
> should go to the Diff-Amps non-inverting input. I believe the inputs
> are the wrong way around on the LM311.

   I believe you are correct.  I show the sync input on the negative 
input and the output of the CA3140 on the positive input.  Of course 
there can be all sorts of varyations depending on how the FET needs to be 
triggered, but from the schematic it looks like it's the same as the 
ASM-1 type, which means it's reversed.
   Someone will undoubtedly correct me if I'm wrong.  :)

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001




From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Aug 22 20:16:23 2001
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:16:23 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] BBD for delay and other things
Message-ID: <3b83f6f7.195e.0@telusplanet.net>


>Speaking of tape echo, is there a tape loop cartridge similar to the echoplex
cartridge that will fit over a 
>standard home-stereo audiocasette head?  I'm on a quest for analog echoes,
and if I have to resort to 
>tape delay, I'd rather do it via commodity components from busted tape decks
instead of building an 
>echoplex and using those funny cartidges.

Rat Shack and others sell answering machine loop tapes in cassette format. But
they often have a small metallic tape section for end-of-loop sensing that must
be spliced out for continuous use.

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Aug 22 20:23:02 2001
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:23:02 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] AY-3-8912A IC available
Message-ID: <3b83f886.22bc.0@telusplanet.net>

There was some discussion a while ago on these digital sound generator chips.
I have one NOS AY-3-8912A here, if anyone wants it, contact me.

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 22 20:26:53 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:26:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register
Message-ID: <F212jbJ6pN7jmF8bpb80000f35a@hotmail.com>

Sorry I was away for a couple days on business.

Catching up on my e-mail

BBD's SUCK   (BBD's Suger)

H^)  harry


>From: marmot1 at magma.ca
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>CC: music.maker at gte.net
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register
>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:33:52 -0400
>
>Hi Scott and List,
>Take a look at www.fairchildimaging.com for a liitle bit of info on the
>chip - and a picture. My 1985 Fairchild CCD Imaging book shows 4
>versions of the CCD321 - the CCD321A-4 is tested for specs pertinent to
>audio, while the -1, -2, -3 versions are tested for specs pertinent to
>video delays and timebase compression/expansion. The CCD321A-4 is spec'd
>at 65 dB S/N ratio at  23 KHz BW and a clock freq of 50 KHz. Not great
>but similar to regular BBD's. The notes also say that the chip may be
>clocked below 10 KHz and above 20 MHz without damage, although the
>performance will not be as good. With a total of 910 stages, the range
>of delay times obtainable would be similar to what could be obtained
>with the Reticon SAD1024 (10 MHz max clock rate IIRC), although somewhat
>shorter delays could be obtained when run at full speed. Wonder if this
>was the mystery delay chip used in the Marshall Time Modulator? It might
>have been introduced earlier than the Reticon/Panasonic/ITT-Valvo BBD's.
>Regards, Mike
>120


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Wed Aug 22 20:31:06 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:31:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Tape Delay
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010822130010.20718A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c12b38$9db60800$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Years ago I built several tape delay units using  broadcast tape cartridge
machines. NAB cartridges are the same size as the 8 track but the pinch
roller is attached to a swing arm on the machine not inside the cartridge.
These machines are robust and are usually easy to work on. The heads on mono
units are half track, with an acceptable S/N ratio. The other track is for
signalling, start next device, que up, etc.

Use back lubricated tape in the cartridges. The tape needs to slide easily
while looping inside the cartridge.

The spindle motor speed can be controlled the old fashioned way, with a VFO
and a power amplifier.

The machines and cartridges are no longer being used by most broadcasters.
They should be available as surplus, cheap.

John

----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Clark <clark at andrews.edu>
To: John Lamb <jlamb3 at nc.rr.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] BBD for delay and other things


> > Speaking of tape echo, is there a tape loop cartridge similar to the
> > echoplex cartridge that will fit over a standard home-stereo
> > audiocasette head?  I'm on a quest for analog echoes, and if I have to
> > resort to tape delay, I'd rather do it via commodity components from
> > busted tape decks instead of building an echoplex and using those
> > funny cartidges.
>
>    Heh.  Well if you are adventurous enough, you could buy an old
> 8-track player to modify, specifically one that can record.  8-tracks are
> cheap and cartridges a dime a dozen (literally!).
>    There's a lot of modification that would have to be done to get it to
> work though.  The heads have to be reversed around so that the
> record/erase head is in front of the playback head.  In fact, depending
> on how keen you are on the audio quality, the heads should be replaced
> with two-track versions for better bandwidth.
>    You'll probably also want to figure out how to adjust the speed of
> play to get different delay times out.
>    The cartridges of an 8-track have a special metal splice in the tape
> that signals the player to switch tracks.  It will have to be removed and
> the tape respliced.  Easy enough to do since I doubt anyone would need
> all the tape that's in one of those things anyway!
>    You could also probably do this with a conventional tape player, but
> it would be harder to set up a continuous loop tape with one of those.
> Besides, 8-tracks are bigger and probably easier to work on.  :)
>    It'd probably be far easier to buy an old reel-style tape recorder to
> do this on, but I like the compact space that a small 8-track unit takes
> up.  :)
>    Anyone ever seen or done anything like this?
>
>    Cheers,
>
>    Tony
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>          The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
>    - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
>      Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001
>
>



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 22 20:53:49 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:53:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Nibbler (was:Embedded micros)
Message-ID: <F65fL4MG2MTiUaYaZlb0000f338@hotmail.com>

Search for "Adel Nibble Tool" and you will
find one of the classic hand nibblers... one
of my favorites.

H^) harry


>From: Tavys Ashcroft <bigtex at cwnet.com>
>To: Synth-DIY list <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>,   Dave Magnuson 
><resfreq at hoohahrecords.com>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Nibbler (was:Embedded micros)
>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:54:26 -0700
>
>>I'm pretty familiar with nibblers (used to work in a sheet metal
>>fabrication shop).  We had a nice pneumatic one, but it would only cut up
>>to 18ga mild steel (12ga is approx 1/16", so this is even thinner).  Any
>>clue if there's a nibbler out there that could handle 1/8" aluminum?  I 
>>was
>>figuring it was too thick for a tool like that.  We never used 1/8" stock,
>>so I'm not sure what's available.
>
>Well, I got lucky and found a Rotex punch in the junkpile courtyard
>at the San Jose State University engineering building.  Rotex makes
>really nice punches.  I have a much larger Rotex at my disposal at
>work which is a turret punch.  The turret rotates to select your
>cutting dies.  The smaller one I found just has one die in it, but
>it's perfect for nibbling thru metal.  I haven't tested it's limits,
>but it's pretty beefy.  So, if this is any help to you, try searching
>for something by Rotex.
>
>-Tavys
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 22 20:57:53 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:57:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register 
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108221317500.6324-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <04f501c12b3c$5a409aa0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Multiply post about BBD and no word from Harry!
There must be something wrong here! <lol>

Theo

BTW 0.09 sec @ 5khz cutoff
Ah, you want at least 5 seconds, well lower the cutoff to 90 hz and your
fine ;^)



From: Atom 'Smasher' <atom at suspicious.org>

> S/N = 65db
>
> is that any better than the old ones?
>
> i'm still not sure how much time @ what cutoff freq could be had with 910
> stages.
>
> ...atom
>
> ----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
> http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
>
> "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it
> people will eventually come to believe it."
> -- Joseph Goebbels (Nazi Minister of Propaganda)
>
>



From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Wed Aug 22 21:13:00 2001
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Christian)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:13:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
In-Reply-To: <050b01c12b3c$ae8ea2a0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
References: <t5r7otsmptse71qcq879ej8uukoi574pn9@4ax.com> <050b01c12b3c$ae8ea2a0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <1o08ot43tio2lu3fboutjc1v0g6trk739q@4ax.com>

I informed the guy. It was an error, and the schematic on his site is
now corrected.

Try this link for the correct schematic.

http://www.evenfall.com/diy/vco2062.gif

Christian.

P.S I had a look at my EXPO circuit. I am pretty sure it is working,
as I get an exponential rise in voltage across R10, the 10K resistor
on the emitters. I also removed (temporarily) the LM311 and the FET
used for sync - She still refuses to oscillate though :(

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:00:15 +0200, you wrote:

>Sorry the link seems to be dead.
>
>------------------
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Christian <Christian at actor.freeuk.com>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 7:43 PM
>Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
>
>
>> Hi
>> 
>> I am a newbie when it comes to VCO's, although I have been working
>> with electronics for over 20 years. If it isn't a 555 or a two
>> transistor astable, I am stumped!
>> 
>> I have recently (the past week) built a VCO circuit, but the darned
>> thing does not oscillate. I wonder if anyone could help me out.
>> The circuit is this one:
>> 
>> http://www.evenfall.com/diy/vco2061.gif
>> 
>> I am using a Transistor array for the Expo, and all the IC's are
>> socketed so I can isolate or replace them.
>> 
>> I have closely examined my board for errors etc three times, but all
>> seems well (although it isn't ).
>> 
>> Could someone help me out with:
>> 
>> a) What sort of CV do I input into the first summing OP-Amp for a
>> decent audiable tone for test purposes? (Middle C or 1000Hz etc?)
>> 
>> b) Is there a way of just making sure that the Oscillator (CA2140) is
>> oscillating without worrying about all the additional circuitry,
>> especially the EXPO and SYNC circuits.
>> 
>> c) I think there is an error in that circuit diagram - The Sync input
>> should go to the Diff-Amps non-inverting input. I believe the inputs
>> are the wrong way around on the LM311.
>> 
>> Any help is greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Christian.
>> 
>
>



From jlamb3 at nc.rr.com  Wed Aug 22 21:21:15 2001
From: jlamb3 at nc.rr.com (John Lamb)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:21:15 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] BBD for delay and other things
Message-ID: <MWMail.bhekciem@host.none>

I've been looking at BBD information on the net just recently, and also at some threads in this list (CCD321 
ASR thread, f.e.) and almost everyone says that theya re a cruddy line for handling audio -- distortion, 
aliasing, etc -- sounds like low-rate sampling to me.  :)  Anyway, it's obviously a crappy way of achieving 
delay effects in analog.  As far as I can tell, the only other popular method for achieving delay in analog is 
by way of tape echo.  am I correct in assuming this?

Speaking of tape echo, is there a tape loop cartridge similar to the echoplex cartridge that will fit over a 
standard home-stereo audiocasette head?  I'm on a quest for analog echoes, and if I have to resort to 
tape delay, I'd rather do it via commodity components from busted tape decks instead of building an 
echoplex and using those funny cartidges.

In other words, I'm a cheap bastard who MORE THAN LIKELY doesn't know what he's talking about.  But 
please gimme a hand and in the long run I might be able to contribute something to this list.  :)

Thanks again
John Lamb



From marmot1 at magma.ca  Wed Aug 22 21:31:21 2001
From: marmot1 at magma.ca (marmot1 at magma.ca)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:31:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register 
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108221317500.6324-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <3B840889.73AF@magma.ca>

Hi,
You use this formula for BBD delay time:

	delay (seconds) = (no. of stages)/(2 * clock rate)

So for 910 stages and 10 KHz clock, delay = about 45 milliseconds
For 910 stages and 20 MHz clock, delay = about 23 microseconds.
Bandwidth must be limited to less than (clock freq)/2 or else aliasing 
occurs. Practically, the BW is usually set at about (clock freq)/3.

So for 10 KHz clock, BW must be limited to less than 5 KHz.

BTW this is not a new chip - it's an old chip still in production.... 
Technically it's a CCD and not a BBD although similar things can be 
done.
Regards, Mike
 


Atom 'Smasher' wrote:
> 
> > http://www.fairchildimaging.com/main/linear_321.htm
> ====================================
> 
> S/N = 65db
> 
> is that any better than the old ones?
> 
> i'm still not sure how much time @ what cutoff freq could be had with 910
> stages.
> 
>         ...atom
> 
> ----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
> http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
> 
>         "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it
>          people will eventually come to believe it."
>                 -- Joseph Goebbels (Nazi Minister of Propaganda)


From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Aug 22 21:35:13 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
In-Reply-To: <1o08ot43tio2lu3fboutjc1v0g6trk739q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010822153155.20718F-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> P.S I had a look at my EXPO circuit. I am pretty sure it is working,
> as I get an exponential rise in voltage across R10, the 10K resistor
> on the emitters. I also removed (temporarily) the LM311 and the FET
> used for sync - She still refuses to oscillate though :(

   That would be because it requires the FET and LM311 in order to 
oscillate.  :)  The exponential converter charges the capacitor across 
the CA3140 in one direction only.  So that when powered up, the voltage 
will rise from 0 to V+ and stay there.  The FET and LM311 are there to 
discharge the capacitor upon reaching 5 volts.  Once discharged, the 
voltage can then begin rising back to V+.
  
   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Aug 22 21:54:53 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:54:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
References: <t5r7otsmptse71qcq879ej8uukoi574pn9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B840E0D.B860DAF2@silcom.com>



Christian wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am a newbie when it comes to VCO's, although I have been working
> with electronics for over 20 years. If it isn't a 555 or a two
> transistor astable, I am stumped!
>
> I have recently (the past week) built a VCO circuit, but the darned
> thing does not oscillate. I wonder if anyone could help me out.
> The circuit is this one:
>
> http://www.evenfall.com/diy/vco2061.gif
>
> I am using a Transistor array for the Expo, and all the IC's are
> socketed so I can isolate or replace them.
>
> I have closely examined my board for errors etc three times, but all
> seems well (although it isn't ).
>
> Could someone help me out with:
>
> a) What sort of CV do I input into the first summing OP-Amp for a
> decent audiable tone for test purposes? (Middle C or 1000Hz etc?)
>
> b) Is there a way of just making sure that the Oscillator (CA2140) is
> oscillating without worrying about all the additional circuitry,
> especially the EXPO and SYNC circuits.
>

    Instead of using the exponential converter, Just tie a resistor of
about 1Meg to the negatvie supply rail.  This will help in the debugging
of the oscilator.

>
> c) I think there is an error in that circuit diagram - The Sync input
> should go to the Diff-Amps non-inverting input. I believe the inputs
> are the wrong way around on the LM311.

    The LM311 is connected up correctly, as far as the diagram goes.
There is some detail missing, that, if you are not familiar with the
LM311, you might not know about.  If you have the time to download
this:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/smb1/smb.pdf, there is a schematic
of basically the same VCO, that shows all of the LM311 pins and where
they need to go.  Unfortunately, the VCO is on the last page of about  24
pages.....I remember the first time I used the LM311....I couldn't get
that sucker to work at all....then I put my glasses on and realized what
I thought was an 8 was a 3 :-).....or something like that....well, that's
my story, and I am sticking to it.

>
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> Christian.



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Wed Aug 22 22:12:03 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:12:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] IC needed (ideally in the UK)
References: <000701c12a8c$e2be60c0$7b6b073e@paul> <003d01c12ace$f85600e0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <00a701c12b46$b6503760$cb0f073e@paul>

Tom,

> If you can deal with a common enable rather that common reset
> you can use a 74LS175. It's a lot more common.

sadly its to replace a faulty chip on a PPG Wave's Proz board.
so it has to be a LS379

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Wed Aug 22 22:18:56 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:18:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] IC needed (ideally in the UK)
References: <000701c12a8c$e2be60c0$7b6b073e@paul> <v04220801b7a9229d004b@[213.112.172.155]>
Message-ID: <00fd01c12b47$ac14c800$cb0f073e@paul>

All,

thanks for the help.. Ideally I need two of these chips and in the UK, most
places wont ship outside the US unless its a fairly large order.

I shall carry on looking, many thanks..

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Wed Aug 22 22:22:10 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:22:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
References: <1.5.4.32.20010822031936.0090fc0c@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <010301c12b48$1f954340$cb0f073e@paul>

Hi,

> Or your own take on the "Cooper Time Cube" for delay: a long piece of
> tubing, with a speaker at one end, and a mic at the other.

this sounds so good, even if the tube ends up about 10 meters long to get a
good time, its such an odd sound...

> Better sounding:
> Look into DSP development kits from Analog Devices, Motorola and TI.
Delay
> is pretty simple to get working, reverb can take some tweaking.  If you've
> got the processing horsepower, look into convolution against good impule
> response samples.

This is also a good point..
I hope to have a go at a delay/reverb unit soon, using a processor, ADC and
DAC and s chunk of sram,
hell if quantec can do it with a 6809 I can do it with a modern processor!

> You might also look around at some of the semiconductor companies.  At one
> point I know I saw some "dedicated" reverb/deley/multiFX chips from
someone.
> It might have been Holtek, but National rings a bell, too.  Does anyone
else
> remember?

Ive looked into some opf these, the one I found was a SIP module, with
delay/reverb/chorus/flange/etc/etc
but it was mono in, stereo out but had only an 8Khz bandwidth :-(
It used a DSP needless to say ... looked nice though..

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 22 22:33:14 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:33:14 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
References: <t5r7otsmptse71qcq879ej8uukoi574pn9@4ax.com> <050b01c12b3c$ae8ea2a0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <1o08ot43tio2lu3fboutjc1v0g6trk739q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c12b49$abb41f80$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

I might be off, but what if you remove R18.

Theo


From: Christian <Christian at actor.freeuk.com>


> I informed the guy. It was an error, and the schematic on his site is
> now corrected.
> 
> Try this link for the correct schematic.
> 
> http://www.evenfall.com/diy/vco2062.gif
> 
> Christian.
> 
> P.S I had a look at my EXPO circuit. I am pretty sure it is working,
> as I get an exponential rise in voltage across R10, the 10K resistor
> on the emitters. I also removed (temporarily) the LM311 and the FET
> used for sync - She still refuses to oscillate though :(
> 
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:00:15 +0200, you wrote:
> 
> >Sorry the link seems to be dead.
> >
> >------------------
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: Christian <Christian at actor.freeuk.com>
> >To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 7:43 PM
> >Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
> >
> >
> >> Hi
> >> 
> >> I am a newbie when it comes to VCO's, although I have been working
> >> with electronics for over 20 years. If it isn't a 555 or a two
> >> transistor astable, I am stumped!
> >> 
> >> I have recently (the past week) built a VCO circuit, but the darned
> >> thing does not oscillate. I wonder if anyone could help me out.
> >> The circuit is this one:
> >> 
> >> http://www.evenfall.com/diy/vco2061.gif
> >> 
> >> I am using a Transistor array for the Expo, and all the IC's are
> >> socketed so I can isolate or replace them.
> >> 
> >> I have closely examined my board for errors etc three times, but all
> >> seems well (although it isn't ).
> >> 
> >> Could someone help me out with:
> >> 
> >> a) What sort of CV do I input into the first summing OP-Amp for a
> >> decent audiable tone for test purposes? (Middle C or 1000Hz etc?)
> >> 
> >> b) Is there a way of just making sure that the Oscillator (CA2140) is
> >> oscillating without worrying about all the additional circuitry,
> >> especially the EXPO and SYNC circuits.
> >> 
> >> c) I think there is an error in that circuit diagram - The Sync input
> >> should go to the Diff-Amps non-inverting input. I believe the inputs
> >> are the wrong way around on the LM311.
> >> 
> >> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> >> 
> >> Christian.
> >> 
> >
> >
> 



From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Aug 22 22:35:45 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:35:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
In-Reply-To: <010301c12b48$1f954340$cb0f073e@paul>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010822163411.20718I-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> > Or your own take on the "Cooper Time Cube" for delay: a long piece of
> > tubing, with a speaker at one end, and a mic at the other.
> 
> this sounds so good, even if the tube ends up about 10 meters long to get a
> good time, its such an odd sound...

   Ah, so that would explain the tube sticking out the window of your 
flat!  ;)

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 22 23:26:08 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:26:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO #3
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010822153155.20718F-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <000701c12b51$0f3ebe00$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Err,.. on second thought keep R18 where it is.
I was thinking a different style of oscillator.
This one goes from 0 to +5V or something like that.
It needs the positive reference.

Theo





From Ordeish at aol.com  Wed Aug 22 23:46:32 2001
From: Ordeish at aol.com (Ordeish at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:46:32 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] arp solus calibration...
Message-ID: <d1.b69379d.28b58238@aol.com>

 Hi i have an arp solus that needs to be calibrated. I was wondering if 
anyone could steer me in the right direction of how to do this? what 
equipment do i need, etc?

thankyou

ophelia r.
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From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 00:36:22 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:36:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
Message-ID: <F174itMP14kYmjaF5t70000f716@hotmail.com>

Cool. Congratulations JH

I hope you will be publishing the plans for this
one on your website, maybe with some schematics so
we can all make one too...

And I'm sure D*pfer won't be able to clone one
quite as precious from the info...

;^P

H^) harry


>From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
>To: "analogue" <analogue at hyperreal.org>, "diy" 
><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>,   <motm at egroups.com>
>Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:19:43 +0200
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm a proud and happy father:
>
>Tassilo Johannes Haible was born this morning at 0:31.
>
>Sorry for the OT message - take it as an excuse for possible
>delays in answering analogue, synth-diy and motm related
>questions in the near future (;->).
>
>JH.
>
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Thu Aug 23 00:44:30 2001
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Christian)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:44:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
In-Reply-To: <1o08ot43tio2lu3fboutjc1v0g6trk739q@4ax.com>
References: <t5r7otsmptse71qcq879ej8uukoi574pn9@4ax.com> <050b01c12b3c$ae8ea2a0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <1o08ot43tio2lu3fboutjc1v0g6trk739q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5ed8otke55cum7t8hqcg0lmib6fpboer3o@4ax.com>

Good news people.

Thanks to your help, and my own intuition that the schematic I was
working from was wrong, I am pleased to annouce my VCO is now running.
There is still a problem with the Square Wave output with PWM, but I
understand that part of the circuit and should be able to sort it out.

Next circuit for me will be a Moog style Transistor ladder filter.

Christian.

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:13:00 +0100, you wrote:

>I informed the guy. It was an error, and the schematic on his site is
>now corrected.
>
>Try this link for the correct schematic.
>
>http://www.evenfall.com/diy/vco2062.gif
>
>Christian.

<SNIP>ped old stuff to save bandwidth





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug 23 04:22:52 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:22:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
References: <000d01c12ac1$7609e820$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3B8468FB.2C9C7463@prodigy.net>

But BEWARE of the protective paper... OLD plexiglass (acrylic) can have
the protective paper dry out and become almose IMPOSSIBLE to remove...
It could take many hours and you cannot use solvents, sharp objects, etc...

Try to peel a corner off before you go too far....

BTW there is also Lexan (polycarbonate) which is nearly indestructible, but
can be scratched (less easily) It can be bent, and punched. Tough Stuff !!!

H^) harry

David Halliday wrote:

> Consider it to be about as flammable as some paper.  Unless your circuits
> catch fire themselves, you should be OK.  The only exception for panel use
> is that it scratches very very easily.
>
> Hand tools are fine - start with a small hole ( 3/16" or so ) and use a
> larger bit to get the correct size.  Use the protective coating to mark up
> ( with grease pencil ) where the holes go, drill them with the protective
> sheet on to protect from swarf and peel it off when you are completely done.
>
> -> -----Original Message-----
> -> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> -> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Dr Strangelove
> -> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 8:21 PM
> -> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> -> Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
> ->
> ->
> -> Hi, all.  I have come accross some arcrylic paneling laying
> -> in the garage.
> -> It has a protective plastic coating on it and it has some
> -> information about
> -> use.  The sheet claims that it is flammable.  Also, that it
> -> expands and
> -> contracts with heat.  Does anyone have any experience using
> -> this substance
> -> for DIY synth panels?  I think I would rather drill this
> -> stuff than metal.
> -> I could even use my hand crank drill on it.  It seems very
> -> durable, plus it
> -> would be really cool to get to see the synth's guts.  Will
> -> this stuff burn
> -> or melt under the heat of synth circuits?  It freaks me out
> -> a little because
> -> it could ruin my whole project if it melted or burned.
> ->
> ->          -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
> ->        (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
> ->
> ->
> ->
> -> _________________________________________________________________
> -> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> -> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> ->
> ->



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug 23 04:36:59 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:36:59 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register
References: <200108221846.f7MIkf707346@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <3B846C4A.3EA294F0@prodigy.net>

oh YEAH ???

If I want a cheezy sound I use a Farfisa Organ without
a Leslie...

If I want pain and suffering... I build a project with BBDs....

There is only ONE thing that SHOULD suck and that
is a Vacuum Cleaner....

make that two things....

H^) harry

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
> >Sorry I was away for a couple days on business.
> >
> >Catching up on my e-mail
> >
> >BBD's SUCK   (BBD's Suger)
>
> That may be true, but what if you WANT a cheesey sound?
>
> Then, you would want to find designs that suck and parts
> that suck.  So for some applications, a BBD might be
> *PERFECT*.
>
> >H^)  harry
> >
> >
> >>From: marmot1 at magma.ca
> >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>CC: music.maker at gte.net
> >>Subject: Re: [sdiy] CCD321 Analog Shift Register
> >>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:33:52 -0400
> >>
> >>Hi Scott and List,
> >>Take a look at www.fairchildimaging.com for a liitle bit of info on the
> >>chip - and a picture. My 1985 Fairchild CCD Imaging book shows 4
> >>versions of the CCD321 - the CCD321A-4 is tested for specs pertinent to
> >>audio, while the -1, -2, -3 versions are tested for specs pertinent to
> >>video delays and timebase compression/expansion. The CCD321A-4 is spec'd
> >>at 65 dB S/N ratio at  23 KHz BW and a clock freq of 50 KHz. Not great
> >>but similar to regular BBD's. The notes also say that the chip may be
> >>clocked below 10 KHz and above 20 MHz without damage, although the
> >>performance will not be as good. With a total of 910 stages, the range
> >>of delay times obtainable would be similar to what could be obtained
> >>with the Reticon SAD1024 (10 MHz max clock rate IIRC), although somewhat
> >>shorter delays could be obtained when run at full speed. Wonder if this
> >>was the mystery delay chip used in the Marshall Time Modulator? It might
> >>have been introduced earlier than the Reticon/Panasonic/ITT-Valvo BBD's.
> >>Regards, Mike
> >>120
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
>
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug 23 04:48:47 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:48:47 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] BBD for delay and other things
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010822130010.20718A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <3B846F0D.823FCD3@prodigy.net>

I've done it and also had a commercial unit using the 8 track format...

They removed the 8 track guts and put in the heads from a cassette
so they could fit in the existing openings in the shell... one erase, one
record
and one play head.

Speed control was with a rheostat feeding the fast forward winding... and a
quick first pass at tape eq vs speed.

Quality was MUCH better than the BBD units of that time... (tee hee)

Also... consider using a regular cassette without an endless loop... is 45
minutes
of continuous play enough for your application... just throw out the erase
head
(I suggest just removing it and leave it connected electrically... it is
OFTEN part
of the bias oscillator) ... move the existing head to where the erase was and
set the deck to record... then add a playback head and feed that back into
the audio input.

Then just play with the speed... its good for about a 1/2 second delay at
normal speed...

After your gig... listen to the echo only tape in your normal deck...
trippy.....

H^) harry

Tony Clark wrote:

> > Speaking of tape echo, is there a tape loop cartridge similar to the
> > echoplex cartridge that will fit over a standard home-stereo
> > audiocasette head?  I'm on a quest for analog echoes, and if I have to
> > resort to tape delay, I'd rather do it via commodity components from
> > busted tape decks instead of building an echoplex and using those
> > funny cartidges.
>
>    Heh.  Well if you are adventurous enough, you could buy an old
> 8-track player to modify, specifically one that can record.  8-tracks are
> cheap and cartridges a dime a dozen (literally!).
>    There's a lot of modification that would have to be done to get it to
> work though.  The heads have to be reversed around so that the
> record/erase head is in front of the playback head.  In fact, depending
> on how keen you are on the audio quality, the heads should be replaced
> with two-track versions for better bandwidth.
>    You'll probably also want to figure out how to adjust the speed of
> play to get different delay times out.
>    The cartridges of an 8-track have a special metal splice in the tape
> that signals the player to switch tracks.  It will have to be removed and
> the tape respliced.  Easy enough to do since I doubt anyone would need
> all the tape that's in one of those things anyway!
>    You could also probably do this with a conventional tape player, but
> it would be harder to set up a continuous loop tape with one of those.
> Besides, 8-tracks are bigger and probably easier to work on.  :)
>    It'd probably be far easier to buy an old reel-style tape recorder to
> do this on, but I like the compact space that a small 8-track unit takes
> up.  :)
>    Anyone ever seen or done anything like this?
>
>    Cheers,
>
>    Tony
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>          The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
>    - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
>      Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From KHeck73 at aol.com  Thu Aug 23 04:57:09 2001
From: KHeck73 at aol.com (KHeck73 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:57:09 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Spring mounting- Reverb
Message-ID: <24.1834edcd.28b5cb05@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/22/2001 1:50:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, don at till.com 
writes:



> From: "Sean Ellis" <shudder at optusnet.com.au>
>    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 14:12:00 +1000
> 
>    Just wondering if people have any suggestions on the best place to
>    mount a spring reverb in a case. It's away from the transformer and
>    I can either place it going up (or down) the side or upside down on
>    the top. Can't imagine it would make much difference but someone
>    may have a preference.
> 
> The Accutronics web page covers this.  Go to:
>   http://www.accutronicsreverb.com
> click on "Applications", click on "Mounting Considerations"...
> 
>   -- Don
> 
> 

Funny, I just found an old reverb tank in a box last week while attempting to 
clean out my garage. I was thinking of what to do with it. All of a sudden 
there's all this talk about spring reverbs... (I never get very far on 
cleaning out the garage).

I have a two spring unit by Gibbs Manufacturing & Research Corp. (Hammond), 
and I suspect it probably came from an old Fender amp. I want to experiment 
with it, but it has some very delicate wires coming off the transducers, so 
I'm afraid of burning it out if I'm not careful. One transducer has a black 
wire and a green wire coming off it, and the other transducer has a mustard 
colored wire and a black wire attached. I don't know which end is input or 
output, or if it matters. Any suggestions or schematics on a circuit to build 
around this thing?  

While searching for information, I found a company that sells the Accutronics 
reverb tanks online. I haven't dealt with them, but the website has some 
interesting stuff on it: 

http://store.yahoo.com/torresengineering/acrevun.html

Thanks, -Karl.

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From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu Aug 23 05:46:40 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:46:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Tape delays (sorry forgot what the subject was)
Message-ID: <000d01c12b86$38445960$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

For the easiest tape delay take a cassette deck with tape monitor function
(3 head deck).
Using the speed control you can get up to 1/4 sec of delay.

For longer delay use two reel to reel decks.
Record on one deck and playback the same tape on the other.
At some point we got this working over a 30 meter distance.

Theo

------------------



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Aug 23 06:14:19 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:14:19 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Spring mounting- Reverb
References: <24.1834edcd.28b5cb05@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B848319.CF068075@prodigy.net>

I'd bet the one with the lower resistance (impedance) is the drive coil.

If your meter will not read that low... try adding a series resistor,
drive the
coil with a sine wave (say 1KHz) and measure the voltage drop across
the resistor.

Use ohms law to find the current... then solve for the unknown (coil)
impedance.

H^) harry

BTW most Fender springs have RCA jacks and the case is labeled IN/OUT
its stamped in the metal and very hard to read on an old unit.

KHeck73 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/22/2001 1:50:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> don at till.com
> writes:
>
>
>
>
>> From: "Sean Ellis" <shudder at optusnet.com.au>
>>   Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 14:12:00 +1000
>>
>>   Just wondering if people have any suggestions on the best place to
>>
>>   mount a spring reverb in a case. It's away from the transformer
>> and
>>   I can either place it going up (or down) the side or upside down
>> on
>>   the top. Can't imagine it would make much difference but someone
>>   may have a preference.
>>
>> The Accutronics web page covers this.  Go to:
>>  http://www.accutronicsreverb.com
>> click on "Applications", click on "Mounting Considerations"...
>>
>>  -- Don
>>
>
> Funny, I just found an old reverb tank in a box last week while
> attempting to
> clean out my garage. I was thinking of what to do with it. All of a
> sudden
> there's all this talk about spring reverbs... (I never get very far on
>
> cleaning out the garage).
>
> I have a two spring unit by Gibbs Manufacturing & Research Corp.
> (Hammond),
> and I suspect it probably came from an old Fender amp. I want to
> experiment
> with it, but it has some very delicate wires coming off the
> transducers, so
> I'm afraid of burning it out if I'm not careful. One transducer has a
> black
> wire and a green wire coming off it, and the other transducer has a
> mustard
> colored wire and a black wire attached. I don't know which end is
> input or
> output, or if it matters. Any suggestions or schematics on a circuit
> to build
> around this thing?
>
> While searching for information, I found a company that sells the
> Accutronics
> reverb tanks online. I haven't dealt with them, but the website has
> some
> interesting stuff on it:
>
> http://store.yahoo.com/torresengineering/acrevun.html
>
> Thanks, -Karl.



From grichter at asapnet.net  Thu Aug 23 06:25:17 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:25:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
In-Reply-To: <004101c12af0$036123e0$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>
Message-ID: <B7A9EFDD.22892%grichter@asapnet.net>

Check Cliff Electronics in the UK. They make a nice DSP board for reverb and
delay. About $30 US one piece.

>> You might also look around at some of the semiconductor companies.  At one
>> point I know I saw some "dedicated" reverb/deley/multiFX chips from
> someone.
>> It might have been Holtek, but National rings a bell, too.  Does anyone
> else
>> remember?
> 




From grichter at asapnet.net  Thu Aug 23 06:40:17 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:40:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie needs help with VCO
In-Reply-To: <3B840E0D.B860DAF2@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <B7A9F361.22893%grichter@asapnet.net>

One thing to remember is the LM311 has an open collector output. The
resistor pulls it up to ground. So the output of the LM311 should be at -15
volts, with very brief pulses to ground. If the gate of the FET is not at
-15 then the cap will not charge at all.

So you can watch the output of the CA3140 and tell something about the
problem.

Output at +15 = current source works, problem with LM311 or FET
Output at ground = current source not working or FET always on
Output at -15 volts = a wiring error since it does not go negative during
normal operation
> 
> The LM311 is connected up correctly, as far as the diagram goes.
> There is some detail missing, that, if you are not familiar with the
> LM311, you might not know about.  If you have the time to download
> this:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/smb1/smb.pdf, there is a schematic
> of basically the same VCO, that shows all of the LM311 pins and where
> they need to go.  Unfortunately, the VCO is on the last page of about  24
> pages.....I remember the first time I used the LM311....I couldn't get
> that sucker to work at all....then I put my glasses on and realized what
> I thought was an 8 was a 3 :-).....or something like that....well, that's
> my story, and I am sticking to it.




From grichter at asapnet.net  Thu Aug 23 06:58:46 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:58:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Goofy matrix switch idea
In-Reply-To: <F65fL4MG2MTiUaYaZlb0000f338@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B7A9F7B6.22894%grichter@asapnet.net>

I have always wanted to use a CD22100 4 x 4 crosspoint switch in a synth.
They contain 16 switches in a 4 x 4 matrix. Obsolete now, but you can find
them in the surplus pipeline. They were $0.95 when still in production and
handle +/- 5 volt signals.

The problem is they are programmed with a pulse train to set the switches on
or off. It normally needs a 16 bit shift register or microprocessor to
control them.

Anyway, I realized the patterns from a CD4089 rate multiplier chip MAYBE
could be used to program the switches. Mostly turn them all on with only two
on at the smallest setting. Or invert the logic and turn them mostly off, or
gate the pulse train???

Very cheap and might be a patch matrix for a circuit bent thingie or
electronium.




From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu Aug 23 08:22:22 2001
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:22:22 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Goofy matrix switch idea
Message-ID: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6026CD3B9@hati.kapsch.co.at>

Hallo!

>I have always wanted to use a CD22100 4 x 4 crosspoint switch in a
synth.
>They contain 16 switches in a 4 x 4 matrix. Obsolete now, but you can
find
>them in the surplus pipeline. They were $0.95 when still in production
and
>handle +/- 5 volt signals.
>
>The problem is they are programmed with a pulse train to set the
switches on
>or off. It normally needs a 16 bit shift register or microprocessor to
>control them.
>
>Anyway, I realized the patterns from a CD4089 rate multiplier chip
MAYBE
>could be used to program the switches. Mostly turn them all on with
only two
>on at the smallest setting. Or invert the logic and turn them mostly
off, or
>gate the pulse train???
>
>Very cheap and might be a patch matrix for a circuit bent thingie or
>electronium.

Not so cheap but more flexible and with a parallel programming interface
are
the matrix circuits from Mitel. I use the MT8816 (16x8) for a
MIDI-Interface for polyphonic synths
(Poly61 from Korg, Casio SK1) and they work fine. They are also suitable
for
audio signals and also video signals. Made an audio matrix with them.

But if you want to realize a mixing matrix (summing signals) you have to
do some tricks
as there are no summing resistors included.

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: www.ullrich.at.tt , http://come.to/ullrich
                   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
   .oooO           Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   (   )   Oooo.   KAPSCH AG / ECCN Control Systems    Vienna / Austria
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/



From bigtex at cwnet.com  Thu Aug 23 09:35:44 2001
From: bigtex at cwnet.com (Tavys Ashcroft)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:35:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
In-Reply-To: <3B8468FB.2C9C7463@prodigy.net>
References: <000d01c12ac1$7609e820$8c2de7d8@speakeasy.net>
 <3B8468FB.2C9C7463@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <v04220801b7aa618fa53a@[209.21.20.11]>

>BTW there is also Lexan (polycarbonate) which is nearly indestructible, but
>can be scratched (less easily) It can be bent, and punched. Tough Stuff !!!

Oh, I just love polycarbonate.  You can get it with several different 
finishes on it, too.  I got some free samples from McMaster-Carr (I 
just love that company) and one of them was 1/4" thick with a 
'velvet' finish.  It doesn't show wear (scratches) nearly as much as 
the 'gloss' stuff, and is rather nice.  If you used that as a front 
panel for a synth, and lighted the interior, it would be really 
pretty.  Hey, even make one of those color organs with LEDs randomly 
distribuded around the circuit boards inside to have a synth with 
built-in mood lighting.

I seem to remember that polycarbonate is good to well over 200 
degrees F, so go for it.  Lexan is a popular brand name, but there 
are many brands and many suppliers.  Not too expensive, either.

-Tavys



From don at till.com  Thu Aug 23 10:58:48 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Spring mounting- Reverb
In-Reply-To: <24.1834edcd.28b5cb05@aol.com> (KHeck73@AOL.COM)
Message-ID: <200108230858.BAA21935@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: KHeck73 at AOL.COM
   Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:57:09 EDT

   I have a two spring unit by Gibbs Manufacturing & Research
   Corp. (Hammond), and I suspect it probably came from an old Fender
   amp. I want to experiment with it, but it has some very delicate
   wires coming off the transducers, so I'm afraid of burning it out
   if I'm not careful. One transducer has a black wire and a green
   wire coming off it, and the other transducer has a mustard colored
   wire and a black wire attached. I don't know which end is input or
   output, or if it matters.

The input and output transducers are physically different.  See the
Accutronics web site for details.

   Any suggestions or schematics on a circuit to build around this
   thing?

See the Accutronics web site for a whole bunch of circuits with
various features.

   While searching for information, I found a company that sells the
   Accutronics reverb tanks online.

The Accutronics web site lists other distributors.  Really, check it
out. 

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Thu Aug 23 11:44:59 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:44:59 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF00C@exchange1.intermetall.de>

I made the same experience but with a larger diameter hose (5cm)
for swimming pool cleaning devices. Could do some very strange
resonating stuff, mostly WITH some water in it.

m.c.


> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Scott Gravenhorst [mailto:music.maker at gte.net]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. August 2001 17:24
> An: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Delay / Reverb options
> 
> 
> "Paul Maddox" <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com> wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >> Or your own take on the "Cooper Time Cube" for delay: a 
> long piece of
> >> tubing, with a speaker at one end, and a mic at the other.
> >
> >this sounds so good, even if the tube ends up about 10 
> meters long to get a
> >good time, its such an odd sound...
> 
> I remember as a child, I would take the garden hose and empty all
> the water out of it.  Then I would put one end to my ear and 
> speak into other end.  Very odd sound indeed and noticable delay.
> 
> I wonder if a wooden box with a folded 'wave guide' inside made
> of wooden walls would sound different?  better?  worse?  
> 
> I've often wondered about acoustic filters made of wood, with 
> baffles movable from outside the box.
> 
> [...]
> 
> >Paul Maddox
> >_______________________________________
> >Wavesynth home page;-
> >    Http://www.wavesynth.com
> >Modulus synthesizers home page;-
> >    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
> >PPG Synthesizer pages;-
> >    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
> >Waveterm C Project page;-
> >    Http://www.waveterm.com
> >
> >
> 
> =========================================================  
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> 
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
> 
> 


From colinf at ntlworld.com  Thu Aug 23 18:47:19 2001
From: colinf at ntlworld.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:47:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] IC needed (ideally in the UK)
In-Reply-To: <00fd01c12b47$ac14c800$cb0f073e@paul>
Message-ID: <000401c12bf3$46736720$c6a0ff3e@mshome.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Paul Maddox
> Sent: 22 August 2001 21:19
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: Re:[sdiy] IC needed (ideally in the UK)
>
>
> thanks for the help.. Ideally I need two of these chips and
> in the UK, most
> places wont ship outside the US unless its a fairly large order.

And if they do ship from the US, you might get stung...

I bought 4 ICs from Jameco, at a cost of $17
Shipping by UPS was a ridiculous $30 or so. I was desperate so I paid it
anyway.

UK customs slapped another 11 ukp on the price for tax (nearly 100% based on
the value of the goods - how do they work that out ?)

But the best bit was UPS - they charged another 10 ukp 'brokerage fee' for
charging me the import tax on behalf of UK customs.

What a bloody con - they charge you $30 to ship from the US to the UK, then
charge you an extra hidden fee for actually bringing it into the country.
B*stards !

Rant over...
You've been warned.

Colin f



From kmartinez at bency.com  Thu Aug 23 19:17:32 2001
From: kmartinez at bency.com (Kenneth Martinez)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:17:32 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] project progess
Message-ID: <3B853AAC.646C2405@bency.com>

I've now finished soldering a dual VCO, a VCF/VCA, a simplified
routing/FM board, an LPT interface, and a system DAC; after I build a
S&H board I'll have a whole voice soldered (plus I still have a voice on
the breadboard).  Designing the layout and building these is going
slowly; I need to take a month or two off work, so I can devote time to
my "hobby"!

Made lots of progress on the software too - now it reads hardware config
and software patch files, and has a fixed number of software Envs, Lfos,
and mod matrix choices, plus portamento.  It doesn't save files yet -
the hardware and software files have to be edited with a text editor
before starting the program - but patch parameters can be changed while
the program runs.  I haven't added many MIDI features yet - just
receives on channel 1 and only responds to note-on velocity and mod
wheel.  For the moment it's back to monophonic-only, but I'll be
enabling the polyphonic mode again soon.

Doing this gives me even more respect than I already have for you list
members, seeing just how much work it is to design and build a whole
synth setup.


http://www.flash.net/~klmart/SynthLeader.html



From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Thu Aug 23 20:35:34 2001
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:35:34 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] IC needed (ideally in the UK)
Message-ID: <3b854cf6.2137.0@telusplanet.net>

>But the best bit was UPS - they charged another 10 ukp 'brokerage fee' for
>charging me the import tax on behalf of UK customs.
>
>What a bloody con - they charge you $30 to ship from the US to the UK, then

>charge you an extra hidden fee for actually bringing it into the country.
>B*stards !

I absolutely refuse to use UPS for anything. The last time I used them they
charged me $40 for brokerage fees from the US into Canada on an item that cost
$15. This was in addition to the 7% tax and the actual shipping cost. The post
office charges a flat fee of $5 for the same service, and is usually less expensive
in the first place. UPS SUCKS!!!!!!!

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com 


From bobby at csounds.com  Thu Aug 23 20:42:32 2001
From: bobby at csounds.com (bobby)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:42:32 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] OT: digest info? where did i put you?
Message-ID: <v04210102b7aafe764ef9@[208.59.100.44]>

hey Guys,

I hate to post this to the whole list.

I can't find the subscribe/unsubscribe information for this list.
I would like to subscribe to the digest instead. could someone
pass me a little reminder/kick-in-the-butt  email with the digest subscription
command please.

thanks in advance.

-bobby.


 

_one thought : many forms_

----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.simdisc.com
http://www.cSounds.com/

----------------------------------------------------------



From perpetual at uswest.net  Thu Aug 23 20:45:19 2001
From: perpetual at uswest.net (alex dickey)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:45:19 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
Message-ID: <3B854F3F.F1D07D99@uswest.net>

anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
kind of thing?

thanks,
alex
-- 
http://www.geocities.com/aurelialuz


From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu Aug 23 21:28:22 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:28:22 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] lifetime diode buy!
References: <000401c12bf3$46736720$c6a0ff3e@mshome.net>
Message-ID: <005d01c12c0a$3407b520$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

The best deal on 1N4148s I can find is the Radio
Shack catalog that offers 50 for $2.98 or about 
$.06ea.....Well that's just not good enough!! EFM
is pleased to offer 1N4148s to the DIY community
for $.02ea! Get 46" of diodes on reel tape (about 
250...more or less a few..;-)  for $5.00

This price is only available in conjunction with other
EFM purchases. Otherwise it's $8.00 + $2.00 postage 
USA. Tell Kim efmorders at hotmail.com

The Midi-Gate sale has been delayed a few days and
will begin Sunday. If you know what it is, have the parts
and want just the bare board with instructions you can 
order it now with programmed PIC for $35.00.

Tom



 



From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu Aug 23 22:09:22 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:09:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <3B854F3F.F1D07D99@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <001501c12c0f$8067c360$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

You may take a look at circuits for direct boxes.


From: alex dickey <perpetual at uswest.net>



> anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> kind of thing?
> 
> thanks,
> alex
> -- 
> http://www.geocities.com/aurelialuz



From grichter at asapnet.net  Thu Aug 23 22:11:12 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:11:12 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <3B854F3F.F1D07D99@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <B7AACD90.229A5%grichter@asapnet.net>

I would also like to know what this does? And why use it at all since a
potentiometer is all that is needed? I put my scope on an electric bass and
guitar and show 1 volt peaks for a hard slap. Isn't that close to line level
anyway?

I don't get it.

> 
> anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> kind of thing?
> 




From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 22:48:05 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:48:05 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
Message-ID: <F46OGESS9iuG7Z2JQHe00010744@hotmail.com>

Most guitar pickups work best into a load impedance
of 500K ohms or greater.  Loading less than this can
cause a lot of frequency response degradation.

OTOH using a transformer to "step up" to line level
will be a problem as well, unless some active gain
is added.

While the "peak" of the guitar / bass is often as much as
a volt... steady state is probably more like 50mV...
much lower than typical line level.

H^) harry


>From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
>Reply-To: grichter at asapnet.net
>To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>,   synth-diy 
><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:11:12 -0500
>
>I would also like to know what this does? And why use it at all since a
>potentiometer is all that is needed? I put my scope on an electric bass and
>guitar and show 1 volt peaks for a hard slap. Isn't that close to line 
>level
>anyway?
>
>I don't get it.
>
> >
> > anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> > takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> > that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> > described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> > potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> > kind of thing?
> >
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From efm3 at mediaone.net  Thu Aug 23 22:57:13 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:57:13 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <B7AACD90.229A5%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <001201c12c16$32688da0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

I can DIY this for under $50. That must be some kind of "high quality" 
transformer in there to justify $200. If you were willing to swap opamps 
and batteries for the xformer you could do it for less than $10. I get it, 
I just don't get the $200 tag. 

Go plug your balanced low impedance sm58 into your stereo's aux in
and you'll see instantly what it's about.

Here's one for $22.50
http://www.tapespot.com/2630092.htm

Tom
 

> I would also like to know what this does? And why use it at all since a
> potentiometer is all that is needed? I put my scope on an electric bass and
> guitar and show 1 volt peaks for a hard slap. Isn't that close to line level
> anyway?
> 
> I don't get it.
> 
> > 
> > anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> > takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> > that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> > described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> > potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> > kind of thing?
> > 
> 
> 



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 22:58:37 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:58:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
Message-ID: <F127S97K5Nvz3bGlabC000107da@hotmail.com>

Ok now I lloked at the site...

It is also a balanced to unbalanced converter... with isolation
(I hope...)

H^) harry


>From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
>Reply-To: grichter at asapnet.net
>To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>,   synth-diy 
><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:11:12 -0500
>
>I would also like to know what this does? And why use it at all since a
>potentiometer is all that is needed? I put my scope on an electric bass and
>guitar and show 1 volt peaks for a hard slap. Isn't that close to line 
>level
>anyway?
>
>I don't get it.
>
> >
> > anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> > takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> > that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> > described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> > potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> > kind of thing?
> >
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Thu Aug 23 23:17:52 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:17:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <B7AACD90.229A5%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <006501c12c19$123bd480$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

It probably has a transformer for isolation and to convert balanced to
unbalanced (Balun). A straight forward pot for attenuation. The switch can
separate the grounds. Appliances don't get much simpler.

Printed on the front of the box is a patent number. Amazing!


----- Original Message -----
From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>; synth-diy
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?


> I would also like to know what this does? And why use it at all since a
> potentiometer is all that is needed? I put my scope on an electric bass
and
> guitar and show 1 volt peaks for a hard slap. Isn't that close to line
level
> anyway?
>
> I don't get it.
>
> >
> > anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> > takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> > that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> > described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> > potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> > kind of thing?
> >
>
>



From mcphive at corrupt.net  Thu Aug 23 23:37:54 2001
From: mcphive at corrupt.net (andy)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:37:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <001201c12c16$32688da0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231737110.11114-100000@washington.corrupt.net>


	it's got a patent# on the site: 6,005,950

	look this up online, and see what's in it.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6005950'.WKU.&OS=PN/6005950&RS=PN/6005950

	(that's a long url, careful when you cut & paste)


	andy




From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri Aug 24 00:02:42 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:02:42 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <B7AACD90.229A5%grichter@asapnet.net> <001201c12c16$32688da0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <006101c12c1f$573feca0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

Do a search at http://www.radioshack.com/
$11.99 at Radio Shack #274-016 

No need to DIY at that price!

Tom



> I can DIY this for under $50. That must be some kind of "high quality" 
> transformer in there to justify $200. If you were willing to swap opamps 
> and batteries for the xformer you could do it for less than $10. I get it, 
> I just don't get the $200 tag. 
> 
> Go plug your balanced low impedance sm58 into your stereo's aux in
> and you'll see instantly what it's about.
> 
> Here's one for $22.50
> http://www.tapespot.com/2630092.htm
> 
> Tom
>  
> 
> > I would also like to know what this does? And why use it at all since a
> > potentiometer is all that is needed? I put my scope on an electric bass and
> > guitar and show 1 volt peaks for a hard slap. Isn't that close to line level
> > anyway?
> > 
> > I don't get it.
> > 
> > > 
> > > anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> > > takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> > > that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> > > described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> > > potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> > > kind of thing?
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 




From larry at plexoninc.com  Fri Aug 24 00:09:29 2001
From: larry at plexoninc.com (Larry Spence)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:09:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <001201c12c16$32688da0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <KBEBIHCDLEGHBAMAJPFMIEJODDAA.larry@plexoninc.com>

The idea of the Reamp is supposed to be that you want to play something back
from tape (or other high-level source) through a stompbox, or into the
guitar input on an amp.  So if you tried to do this directly, you would have
to turn the levels on the tape deck, mixer, etc almost all the way down in
order to not overload the stombox or amp input, which is expecting a
guitar/mic level input, and you wouldn't get optimal S/N.  What I don't
understand (but I'm not an electronics guru like you folks) is why impedance
matching is needed, as opposed to just a pad.  I understand that you can't
run a high-impedance output into a low-impedance input, but what's the
problem with running a lo-Z output into something with a 1M input impedance,
assuming you use a pad to get the level down to what the input will accept
without overloading?

btw, if you have piles of cash sitting around, the rich man's Reamp is:

http://www.littlelabs.com/pcp.html

btw, the Reamp does claim to use some fancy ultra-flat transformer.  And the
$950 (plus shipping!) PCP uses lots of snob components.

Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of tomg at efm
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 3:57 PM
To: grichter at asapnet.net; owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?


I can DIY this for under $50. That must be some kind of "high quality"
transformer in there to justify $200. If you were willing to swap opamps
and batteries for the xformer you could do it for less than $10. I get it,
I just don't get the $200 tag.

Go plug your balanced low impedance sm58 into your stereo's aux in
and you'll see instantly what it's about.

Here's one for $22.50
http://www.tapespot.com/2630092.htm

Tom


> I would also like to know what this does? And why use it at all since a
> potentiometer is all that is needed? I put my scope on an electric bass
and
> guitar and show 1 volt peaks for a hard slap. Isn't that close to line
level
> anyway?
>
> I don't get it.
>
> >
> > anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> > takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> > that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> > described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> > potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> > kind of thing?
> >
>
>



From larry at plexoninc.com  Fri Aug 24 00:11:22 2001
From: larry at plexoninc.com (Larry Spence)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:11:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <001201c12c16$32688da0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <KBEBIHCDLEGHBAMAJPFMKEJODDAA.larry@plexoninc.com>

The idea of the Reamp is supposed to be that you want to play something back
from tape (or other high-level source) through a stompbox, or into the
guitar input on an amp.  So if you tried to do this directly, you would have
to turn the levels on the tape deck, mixer, etc almost all the way down in
order to not overload the stombox or amp input, which is expecting a
guitar/mic level input, and you wouldn't get optimal S/N.  What I don't
understand (but I'm not an electronics guru like you folks) is why impedance
matching is needed, as opposed to just a pad.  I understand that you can't
run a high-impedance output into a low-impedance input, but what's the
problem with running a lo-Z output into something with a 1M input impedance,
assuming you use a pad to get the level down to what the input will accept
without overloading?

btw, if you have piles of cash sitting around, the rich man's Reamp is:

http://www.littlelabs.com/pcp.html

btw, the Reamp does claim to use some fancy ultra-flat transformer.  And the
$950 (plus shipping!) PCP uses lots of snob components.

Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of tomg at efm
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 3:57 PM
To: grichter at asapnet.net; owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?


I can DIY this for under $50. That must be some kind of "high quality"
transformer in there to justify $200. If you were willing to swap opamps
and batteries for the xformer you could do it for less than $10. I get it,
I just don't get the $200 tag.

Go plug your balanced low impedance sm58 into your stereo's aux in
and you'll see instantly what it's about.

Here's one for $22.50
http://www.tapespot.com/2630092.htm

Tom


> I would also like to know what this does? And why use it at all since a
> potentiometer is all that is needed? I put my scope on an electric bass
and
> guitar and show 1 volt peaks for a hard slap. Isn't that close to line
level
> anyway?
>
> I don't get it.
>
> >
> > anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> > takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> > that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> > described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> > potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> > kind of thing?
> >
>
>



From marmot1 at magma.ca  Fri Aug 24 01:48:29 2001
From: marmot1 at magma.ca (marmot1 at magma.ca)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:48:29 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] PV-1 Pitch-Voltage Converter
Message-ID: <3B85964D.497@magma.ca>

Hi List,
Just wanted to mention that I have recently built one of Harry's PV-1 
pitch-voltage converter boards (available from EFM), and it works 
nicely. As a test, I set the Jupiter-8 to monophonic mode, fed the JP-8 
output into the PV-1, whose output in turn controlled the frequency of a 
cloned Moog Prodigy VCO. Got tight tracking over 5 octaves (length of 
JP-8 kbd). As the converter works by measuring the instantaneous period 
of the input waveform (rather than being a simple tachometer-type 
circuit) it also follows rapid pitch changes - portamento, LFO mode 
quite well. Harry was quite helpful with "technical support".
Mike


From efm3 at mediaone.net  Fri Aug 24 02:02:58 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:02:58 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231737110.11114-100000@washington.corrupt.net>
Message-ID: <001501c12c30$2513ee00$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

That's ridiculous......but whatever.... He has evidently got a
patent for placing a level pot across the transformer and the idea
that you can record a (flat) signal and then play it back through
the instrument amplifier thus eliminating the need to replay the part
over and over again by the musician.

Just goes to show with the right wording you can get a patent
on anything. That's not what I would call a strong patent.

Tom


> it's got a patent# on the site: 6,005,950
>
> look this up online, and see what's in it.
>
>
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netah
tml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6005950'.WKU.&OS=PN/6005950&RS=PN/6005950
>
> (that's a long url, careful when you cut & paste)
>
>
> andy
>
>



From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Aug 24 03:04:32 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:04:32 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231737110.11114-100000@washington.corrupt.net>
Message-ID: <001b01c12c38$be6ba180$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Guess every thing is patent-able in the US.
How about patenting a disk shaped apparatus to facilitate a wide range of
transport methods?

Theo


From: andy <mcphive at corrupt.net>

> it's got a patent# on the site: 6,005,950
>
> look this up online, and see what's in it.
>
>
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1
&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6005950'.WKU.&OS=PN/6005950&RS=PN/
6005950
>
> (that's a long url, careful when you cut & paste)
>
>
> andy
>
>



From kmartinez at bency.com  Fri Aug 24 03:13:13 2001
From: kmartinez at bency.com (Kenneth Martinez)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:13:13 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231737110.11114-100000@washington.corrupt.net> <001501c12c30$2513ee00$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3B85AA29.D9E1D156@bency.com>

After reading all that mumbo jumbo, I was having difficulty figuring out if the patent
applied merely to his circuit (which seems to be a transformer and pot, plus a few
resistors and a capacitor or two), or if it was meant to apply to the idea of recording a
flat signal and processing it afterwards.  Recording engineers have been playing back
recorded performances into outboard processing gear for a long, long time (including
playing back through instrument amps into mics for re-recording), and surely some have
recorded dry (flat) signals before with the express intent of processing them later...?


"tomg at efm" wrote:

> That's ridiculous......but whatever.... He has evidently got a
> patent for placing a level pot across the transformer and the idea
> that you can record a (flat) signal and then play it back through
> the instrument amplifier thus eliminating the need to replay the part
> over and over again by the musician.
>
> Just goes to show with the right wording you can get a patent
> on anything. That's not what I would call a strong patent.
>
> Tom
>
> > it's got a patent# on the site: 6,005,950
> >
> > look this up online, and see what's in it.
> >
> >
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netah
> tml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6005950'.WKU.&OS=PN/6005950&RS=PN/6005950
> >
> > (that's a long url, careful when you cut & paste)
> >
> >
> > andy
> >
> >



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri Aug 24 03:33:57 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:33:57 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010824013357.00859828@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 05:09 PM 23/08/01 -0500, Larry Spence  wrote:

>run a high-impedance output into a low-impedance input, but what's the
>problem with running a lo-Z output into something with a 1M input impedance,
>assuming you use a pad to get the level down to what the input will accept
>without overloading?

Some guitar fx boxes assume that they are being fed from 500k impedance,
otherwise the tone is a bit different. Remember that many guitar fx
aren't designed by people who understand impedance & etc.

BTW, the wheel HAS been patented in Australia! to point out how F*&^%$
the patent system is. Go to Don Lancasters site for more patent madness,
sob stories etc.

paul perry melbourne australia



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Aug 24 05:37:32 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:37:32 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <KBEBIHCDLEGHBAMAJPFMIEJODDAA.larry@plexoninc.com>
Message-ID: <3B85CBF9.8738C65A@prodigy.net>

You would have no isolation or convert balanced to single-ended... that
might mean a lot of noise in a studio environment....

And a transformer might need to go down to 40Hz  to cover bass guitar...

I'm not buying anytime soon....   ;^P

H^) harry

Larry Spence wrote: <snip>

>  I understand that you can't
> run a high-impedance output into a low-impedance input, but what's the
> problem with running a lo-Z output into something with a 1M input impedance,
> assuming you use a pad to get the level down to what the input will accept
> without overloading?
>
> btw, if you have piles of cash sitting around, the rich man's Reamp is:
>
> http://www.littlelabs.com/pcp.html
>
> btw, the Reamp does claim to use some fancy ultra-flat transformer.  And the
> $950 (plus shipping!) PCP uses lots of snob components.
>
> Larry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of tomg at efm
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 3:57 PM
> To: grichter at asapnet.net; owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
>
> I can DIY this for under $50. That must be some kind of "high quality"
> transformer in there to justify $200. If you were willing to swap opamps
> and batteries for the xformer you could do it for less than $10. I get it,
> I just don't get the $200 tag.
>
> Go plug your balanced low impedance sm58 into your stereo's aux in
> and you'll see instantly what it's about.
>
> Here's one for $22.50
> http://www.tapespot.com/2630092.htm
>
> Tom
>
> > I would also like to know what this does? And why use it at all since a
> > potentiometer is all that is needed? I put my scope on an electric bass
> and
> > guitar and show 1 volt peaks for a hard slap. Isn't that close to line
> level
> > anyway?
> >
> > I don't get it.
> >
> > >
> > > anyone out there familiar with this device?  (if not, www.reamp.com)
> > > takes a line level signal and converts it to a high impedence signal
> > > that can be fed to guitar stomp boxes, amps, etc.  seems easy enough,
> > > described by one reviewer as "just a simple box with a transformer and
> > > potentiometer."  anyone have any hints where to start looking to do this
> > > kind of thing?
> > >
> >
> >



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Aug 24 05:42:22 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:42:22 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231737110.11114-100000@washington.corrupt.net> <001b01c12c38$be6ba180$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B85CD1C.18B511C7@prodigy.net>

OK but if you throw the disk across the room you infringe MY patent...
(just kidding)

H^) harry

Theo wrote:

> Guess every thing is patent-able in the US.
> How about patenting a disk shaped apparatus to facilitate a wide range of
> transport methods?
>
> Theo
>
> From: andy <mcphive at corrupt.net>
>
> > it's got a patent# on the site: 6,005,950
> >
> > look this up online, and see what's in it.
> >
> >
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1
> &u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6005950'.WKU.&OS=PN/6005950&RS=PN/
> 6005950
> >
> > (that's a long url, careful when you cut & paste)
> >
> >
> > andy
> >
> >



From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Fri Aug 24 07:17:43 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:17:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PV-1 Pitch-Voltage Converter
In-Reply-To: <3B85964D.497@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010824001640.02ddad80@mailhub.verio.net>

Anyone tell me more on the EFM site and products?

Joshua

At 8/23/2001 06:48 PM, you wrote:
>Hi List,
>Just wanted to mention that I have recently built one of Harry's PV-1
>pitch-voltage converter boards (available from EFM), and it works
>nicely. As a test, I set the Jupiter-8 to monophonic mode, fed the JP-8
>output into the PV-1, whose output in turn controlled the frequency of a
>cloned Moog Prodigy VCO. Got tight tracking over 5 octaves (length of
>JP-8 kbd). As the converter works by measuring the instantaneous period
>of the input waveform (rather than being a simple tachometer-type
>circuit) it also follows rapid pitch changes - portamento, LFO mode
>quite well. Harry was quite helpful with "technical support".
>Mike

nKode / Pulse 8 / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
Good Time Tribe / http://www.goodtimetribe.com
Dallas Regional Electronic Artists And Musicians 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/D-R-E-A-M
http://www.mp3.com/nkode / http://www.mp3.com/cacofone / 
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8



From mtmelvin at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 24 07:56:28 2001
From: mtmelvin at yahoo.com (Mark Melvin)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:56:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer source?
Message-ID: <20010824055628.40226.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi-

Can someone point me in the right direction?

I'm trying to find potentiometers that are 5/8" in
diameter and have a 1/4" shaft.  I have found some...
but not the values I need.  
Philmore makes pots like these, but I can't find them
in a Linear taper.
I also found that Caltronics makes this size... but I
can't find them online anywhere.

Help?

Thanks!
-Mark

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From esresource at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 24 10:43:48 2001
From: esresource at earthlink.net (Scott Evans, Gen Mgr)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:43:48 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
References: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com> <l03110701b7a930a07f9c@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <3B8613C4.4C920A9F@earthlink.net>

Dave Krooshof wrote:

> Use a good saw, sharp, small teeth. saw by hand.
> Or use a fast, small theeth circular saw.

Carbide drills and saw blades work well if you are going to do a lot of this type
of work.

> The people at the shop told us they cut a line in it, and then break
> it over the line. We did not succeed in that. You might think of a
> way to mount it on the box in such way that you can hide the edges...

For fine finishing of rough cut edges on production work, use a torch fed by
hydrogen and oxygen (acetylene will NOT work, too dirty). This makes a very smooth
edge on the material. The torch should move about 1 foot per second.

This material will ignite, but it is not fast burning.

Scott Evans




From cyborgzero at home.com  Fri Aug 24 14:32:17 2001
From: cyborgzero at home.com (Rob B)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:32:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
References: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com> <l03110701b7a930a07f9c@[213.84.92.34]> <3B8613C4.4C920A9F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001e01c12c98$fb8f2cc0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>

you have to use a very sharp knife and a steeledge ruler.. Personally, i
have used a utility knife and a framing square.

It *does* work, and if done properly, you will get a very clean polished
edge.

you also need two boards: one under the acrylic, and the other above it,
lined up with its edge to your breakline with the unused portion exposed.

Then, stand on the board and pull the unused portion towards you.

Rob

aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Evans, Gen Mgr <esresource at earthlink.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] arcrylic panels


> Dave Krooshof wrote:
>
> > Use a good saw, sharp, small teeth. saw by hand.
> > Or use a fast, small theeth circular saw.
>
> Carbide drills and saw blades work well if you are going to do a lot of
this type
> of work.
>
> > The people at the shop told us they cut a line in it, and then break
> > it over the line. We did not succeed in that. You might think of a
> > way to mount it on the box in such way that you can hide the edges...
>
> For fine finishing of rough cut edges on production work, use a torch fed
by
> hydrogen and oxygen (acetylene will NOT work, too dirty). This makes a
very smooth
> edge on the material. The torch should move about 1 foot per second.
>
> This material will ignite, but it is not fast burning.
>
> Scott Evans
>
>



From debus at cityweb.de  Fri Aug 24 15:21:19 2001
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:21:19 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <1.5.4.32.20010824013357.00859828@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <3B8654CF.44B07989@cityweb.de>



Paul Perry wrote:
> 
> At 05:09 PM 23/08/01 -0500, Larry Spence  wrote:
> 
> >run a high-impedance output into a low-impedance input, but what's the
> >problem with running a lo-Z output into something with a 1M input impedance,
> >assuming you use a pad to get the level down to what the input will accept
> >without overloading?
> 
> Some guitar fx boxes assume that they are being fed from 500k impedance,
> otherwise the tone is a bit different.

But isn't the output impedance of an electric guitar often much lower? A
magnetic guitar pickup is a coil after all, and the guitar's volume pot
won't make the impedance higher if set to max.

If the fx box needs a high source impedance, why not put just a resistor
in series with the input?

Ingo



From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Aug 24 14:09:17 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:09:17
Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
Message-ID: <200108242109.f7OL9R300557@smtp002.mailsrvcs.net>

Well, if you ground the probe tip with the scope set the
way the problem appears, it should still do it if there's
an issue with the scope.  (AFAIK)

harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
>Do you have a dual trace scope... are both channels ON ???
>
>Try using one channel only... The scope may be set to chop mode
>and it is bouncing from channel to channel...
>
>But every 3mS for this chop would normally be WAY too slow. Usually
>you could only see chopping at very fast sweep speeds.
>
>Do you have a 10X sweep switch ??  It might be .5mS you are looking at
>
>Notice... I'm suspecting your test equipment here rather than the circuit. 
>You need to convince yourself that this signal is real...
>
>Try looking at some other, known signals like the probe cal output
>of the scope.
>
>With the AC coupling you could see ripple and noise... It sounds like your 
>ripple and noise are VERY low, if the measurement is correct.
>
>Once you switch to DC, you will probably have to be at maybe 2V to 5V
>per division to see the "whole" signal.
>
>If you set the vertical gain higher, the signal should blow right off the 
>screen.
>
>H^)  harry
>
>PS : are you SURE you wanna tie the mains ground to the 0VDC point ?
>I'd do that later (maybe much later)
>
>
>
>>From: ElmacacoX at aol.com
>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
>>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:03:43 EDT
>>
>>Hi Everybody,
>>
>>I am looking at a power supply I made on the scope, and I am not sure if it
>>is working right.
>>
>>I have the settings at 5ms /cm and .01 volts/CM, when AC coupled I get what
>>looks like noise that ranges about one fifth of one cm, so .0020V, when DC
>>coupled I get what looks like a straight line that is kind of dotted, every
>>3ms there is a little gap, and it looks like the trace is shooting upward 
>>vey
>>quickly at these gaps and they appear to shoot up to the top of the screen.
>>but when I change the volt/div settings to chase itand see how far it 
>>spikes,
>>it becomes a solid bar, but it is still present when changing the time
>>settings.
>>
>>
>>
>>the power supply is basically like this,
>>
>>         ----------------
>>---------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--317---10uFelco--100nF
>>[24VCT at 1.25A]  4x 4001 rect,diodes
>>        -----------------
>>----------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--337--10uF elco-100nF
>>
>>
>>the first three caps are electolytic as is the 10uF at the end.
>>I am thinking that maybe the 10uf is too big to be at the end like that, 
>>but
>>the schemo I got it from had them.
>>I have all the caps and stuff wired correctly the PS works, giving out +/-
>>12.3V,
>>although I don't have the mains ground wired to the secondary 0v yet.
>>
>>what mai doin wrong?
>>
>>thanks
>>
>>Ed
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>

=========================================================  
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From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Fri Aug 24 16:21:40 2001
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:21:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
References: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com> <l03110701b7a930a07f9c@[213.84.92.34]> <3B8613C4.4C920A9F@earthlink.net> <001e01c12c98$fb8f2cc0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>
Message-ID: <002101c12ca8$17c997e0$0c64a8c0@intra.inverseentertainment.de>

My two cents on acryl panels:



I've built some acryl panels a couple of years ago for my power supplies,
accu-chargers, guitar preamp and other diy gear.

I used three layer technik. The last layer was opaque and colored acrylglas.
the middle was a printed film for the artwork, and the top was transparent.

The panel art was printed and photo-transfered onto a film. I also ephasized
different sections with using opaque color and a brush. Painting from the
backside had the nice advantage that you can simply paint over texts and
scales, and it's still perfect readable from the front side.

I drilled the two acryl plates in one go, put the film into the middle, and
mount the panel into the chasis.

When everything was in place I cut the holes into the film using a sharp
knife, or a needle.

Speaking about acryl drilling.. Thats difficult. You need good tools, good
drills and a workbench where you can fix the panels without breaking or
scratching them.

It wasn't easy, but it looked very professional.Orange acryl for the
background and pastel blue or gray color for the emphasized parts where my
favorite design.


    Nils Pipenbrinck




From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Aug 24 16:23:04 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:23:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
References: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com> <l03110701b7a930a07f9c@[213.84.92.34]> <3B8613C4.4C920A9F@earthlink.net> <001e01c12c98$fb8f2cc0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>
Message-ID: <002501c12ca8$4a2bd900$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Yep, that's the way to do it.

But if you use 3mm pexiglass or less,
you may want put the sheet on the table with the cut a mm or so over the
edge.
then clamp a piece off wood on top lined up with the table
and bend/snap off the unused part.
For my this worked better than standing on top of the sheet.

Theo



From: Rob B <cyborgzero at home.com>

> you have to use a very sharp knife and a steeledge ruler.. Personally, i
> have used a utility knife and a framing square.
>
> It *does* work, and if done properly, you will get a very clean polished
> edge.
>
> you also need two boards: one under the acrylic, and the other above it,
> lined up with its edge to your breakline with the unused portion exposed.
>
> Then, stand on the board and pull the unused portion towards you.
>
> Rob
>
> aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Evans, Gen Mgr <esresource at earthlink.net>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
>
>
> > Dave Krooshof wrote:
> >
> > > Use a good saw, sharp, small teeth. saw by hand.
> > > Or use a fast, small theeth circular saw.
> >
> > Carbide drills and saw blades work well if you are going to do a lot of
> this type
> > of work.
> >
> > > The people at the shop told us they cut a line in it, and then break
> > > it over the line. We did not succeed in that. You might think of a
> > > way to mount it on the box in such way that you can hide the edges...
> >
> > For fine finishing of rough cut edges on production work, use a torch
fed
> by
> > hydrogen and oxygen (acetylene will NOT work, too dirty). This makes a
> very smooth
> > edge on the material. The torch should move about 1 foot per second.
> >
> > This material will ignite, but it is not fast burning.
> >
> > Scott Evans
> >
> >
>
>



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Fri Aug 24 16:43:52 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:43:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PV-1 Pitch-Voltage Converter
References: <3B85964D.497@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <002201c12cab$322e2800$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

I know that some on this list like alternate controllers. The topic of pitch
to voltage converters brought alternative ideas.

1) Use a cheezy Kustom radar unit to measure the speed of the pitch. It must
be a Kustom radar unit. It is the same company that made the cheezy guitar
amps with the tuck-and-roll finish. The speed reading can be converted to
analog voltage.

2) Use a pressure transducer in the catchers mit.

3) The rate that the droplets of maple fall into the bucket could be
measured. The period measured and converted to a voltage.
----- Original Message -----
From: <marmot1 at magma.ca>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 4:48 PM
Subject: [sdiy] PV-1 Pitch-Voltage Converter


> Hi List,
> Just wanted to mention that I have recently built one of Harry's PV-1
> pitch-voltage converter boards (available from EFM), and it works
> nicely. As a test, I set the Jupiter-8 to monophonic mode, fed the JP-8
> output into the PV-1, whose output in turn controlled the frequency of a
> cloned Moog Prodigy VCO. Got tight tracking over 5 octaves (length of
> JP-8 kbd). As the converter works by measuring the instantaneous period
> of the input waveform (rather than being a simple tachometer-type
> circuit) it also follows rapid pitch changes - portamento, LFO mode
> quite well. Harry was quite helpful with "technical support".
> Mike



From cyborgzero at home.com  Fri Aug 24 16:48:32 2001
From: cyborgzero at home.com (Rob B)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:48:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
References: <F25919VMczi9yzu23Li0000e68a@hotmail.com> <l03110701b7a930a07f9c@[213.84.92.34]> <3B8613C4.4C920A9F@earthlink.net> <001e01c12c98$fb8f2cc0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com> <002501c12ca8$4a2bd900$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <002201c12cac$2bf29600$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>

oh, btw, this was for a rather thick plexiglas sheet i just cut recently to
build a plexiglas shroud for my desktop CNC machine so chips aren't being
sprayed all over the laptop and myself during the cutting operation. ;)

Hence, the standing on the board trick.  hehe..

aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number

----- Original Message -----
From: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
To: Rob B <cyborgzero at home.com>; Scott Evans, Gen Mgr
<esresource at earthlink.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] arcrylic panels


> Yep, that's the way to do it.
>
> But if you use 3mm pexiglass or less,
> you may want put the sheet on the table with the cut a mm or so over the
> edge.
> then clamp a piece off wood on top lined up with the table
> and bend/snap off the unused part.
> For my this worked better than standing on top of the sheet.
>
> Theo
>
>
>
> From: Rob B <cyborgzero at home.com>
>
> > you have to use a very sharp knife and a steeledge ruler.. Personally, i
> > have used a utility knife and a framing square.
> >
> > It *does* work, and if done properly, you will get a very clean polished
> > edge.
> >
> > you also need two boards: one under the acrylic, and the other above it,
> > lined up with its edge to your breakline with the unused portion
exposed.
> >
> > Then, stand on the board and pull the unused portion towards you.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Scott Evans, Gen Mgr <esresource at earthlink.net>
> > To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:43 AM
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] arcrylic panels
> >
> >
> > > Dave Krooshof wrote:
> > >
> > > > Use a good saw, sharp, small teeth. saw by hand.
> > > > Or use a fast, small theeth circular saw.
> > >
> > > Carbide drills and saw blades work well if you are going to do a lot
of
> > this type
> > > of work.
> > >
> > > > The people at the shop told us they cut a line in it, and then break
> > > > it over the line. We did not succeed in that. You might think of a
> > > > way to mount it on the box in such way that you can hide the
edges...
> > >
> > > For fine finishing of rough cut edges on production work, use a torch
> fed
> > by
> > > hydrogen and oxygen (acetylene will NOT work, too dirty). This makes a
> > very smooth
> > > edge on the material. The torch should move about 1 foot per second.
> > >
> > > This material will ignite, but it is not fast burning.
> > >
> > > Scott Evans
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Aug 24 15:17:52 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:17:52
Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
Message-ID: <200108242220.f7OMK9316454@smtp002.mailsrvcs.net>

Yes, but if it still happens with the probe tip
grounded, then it *cannot* be the PSU.

harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
>Not necessarily....
>
>If it is the chopping signal you are seeing... and you ground
>the probes you might NOT see the problem... Think of generating
>a square wave between the voltage of the upper trace and the lower
>trace... if they are the same you cannot see any glitches... but
>if they differ you see the chop frequency...
>
>oooh... maybe the scope is actually in ALTERNATE mode and sweeping
>two very different signals ???
>
>That's why I suggested using ONE channel to eliminate this possibility.
>
>
>H^) harry (whose scope does not chop very well following an encounter
>of the ungrounded high voltage discharge kind....)
>
>
>>From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
>>Reply-To: music.maker at gte.net
>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
>>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:09:17
>>
>>Well, if you ground the probe tip with the scope set the
>>way the problem appears, it should still do it if there's
>>an issue with the scope.  (AFAIK)
>>
>>harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
>> >Do you have a dual trace scope... are both channels ON ???
>> >
>> >Try using one channel only... The scope may be set to chop mode
>> >and it is bouncing from channel to channel...
>> >
>> >But every 3mS for this chop would normally be WAY too slow. Usually
>> >you could only see chopping at very fast sweep speeds.
>> >
>> >Do you have a 10X sweep switch ??  It might be .5mS you are looking at
>> >
>> >Notice... I'm suspecting your test equipment here rather than the 
>>circuit.
>> >You need to convince yourself that this signal is real...
>> >
>> >Try looking at some other, known signals like the probe cal output
>> >of the scope.
>> >
>> >With the AC coupling you could see ripple and noise... It sounds like 
>>your
>> >ripple and noise are VERY low, if the measurement is correct.
>> >
>> >Once you switch to DC, you will probably have to be at maybe 2V to 5V
>> >per division to see the "whole" signal.
>> >
>> >If you set the vertical gain higher, the signal should blow right off the
>> >screen.
>> >
>> >H^)  harry
>> >
>> >PS : are you SURE you wanna tie the mains ground to the 0VDC point ?
>> >I'd do that later (maybe much later)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: ElmacacoX at aol.com
>> >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> >>Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
>> >>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:03:43 EDT
>> >>
>> >>Hi Everybody,
>> >>
>> >>I am looking at a power supply I made on the scope, and I am not sure if 
>>it
>> >>is working right.
>> >>
>> >>I have the settings at 5ms /cm and .01 volts/CM, when AC coupled I get 
>>what
>> >>looks like noise that ranges about one fifth of one cm, so .0020V, when 
>>DC
>> >>coupled I get what looks like a straight line that is kind of dotted, 
>>every
>> >>3ms there is a little gap, and it looks like the trace is shooting 
>>upward
>> >>vey
>> >>quickly at these gaps and they appear to shoot up to the top of the 
>>screen.
>> >>but when I change the volt/div settings to chase itand see how far it
>> >>spikes,
>> >>it becomes a solid bar, but it is still present when changing the time
>> >>settings.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>the power supply is basically like this,
>> >>
>> >>         ----------------
>> >>---------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--317---10uFelco--100nF
>> >>[24VCT at 1.25A]  4x 4001 rect,diodes
>> >>        -----------------
>> >>----------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--337--10uF elco-100nF
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>the first three caps are electolytic as is the 10uF at the end.
>> >>I am thinking that maybe the 10uf is too big to be at the end like that,
>> >>but
>> >>the schemo I got it from had them.
>> >>I have all the caps and stuff wired correctly the PS works, giving out 
>>+/-
>> >>12.3V,
>> >>although I don't have the mains ground wired to the secondary 0v yet.
>> >>
>> >>what mai doin wrong?
>> >>
>> >>thanks
>> >>
>> >>Ed
>> >
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>> >
>>
>>=========================================================
>>- Government: The other religion.
>>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>>
>>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>>-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
>>-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>>
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From james at ersatzplanet.com  Fri Aug 24 18:06:20 2001
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:06:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] arcrylic panels - other methods
In-Reply-To: <3B8613C4.4C920A9F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B7ABC98C.22A5%james@ersatzplanet.com>

on 8/24/01 1:43 AM, Scott Evans, Gen Mgr at esresource at earthlink.net wrote:

y to mount it on the box in such way that you can hide the edges...
> 
> For fine finishing of rough cut edges on production work, use a torch fed by
> hydrogen and oxygen (acetylene will NOT work, too dirty). This makes a very
> smooth
> edge on the material. The torch should move about 1 foot per second.
> 
> This material will ignite, but it is not fast burning.

A much safer method is to use toothpaste and a buffing wheel or cloth. Get
the chalky type of toothpaste (not the gel type). I used to do allot of
plexi sculpture and this is how you get the mirror edges. It take time but
the chances of messing up and ruining you work is much, much less. A drill
with a polishing pad is the best for fast jobs. Use allot of paste, it's
cheap. You can even buff out scratches with this method (go by hand on the
front surfaces).

 As for bending etc., always use electric heat (no flames). After a few
minutes in a open oven (let the fumes out), you can bend the stuff like
paper till it cools. You can do small stuff in a toaster! I've made bending
jigs suspended over space heaters and they work great too. The best is to
get the elements from an oven or grill, and make a single long line with
them (insulate and focus). Then you only heat the sheet where you want to
make the bend. Much sharper edges result.

Always use drill bits with a plastic pitch to them if possible, bits for
soft metals will work also. Wood drills will shatter edges. Go slow and work
up to the size you want.

A finishing saw is the best. The smaller the teeth the better. Band saws
also good. Worry about heat gumming the works (you will see the plexi melt
while cutting). Most of the real Plexiglas wholesale houses sell drills and
saw blades also. Just do a Google search on Plexiglas, you'll get hits like:
http://www.allstartools.com/Sawblades30.html which sell Plexiglas saw blades
and stuff like that. I used to just look up Rohm & Haas in  the yellow
pages. They used to be the big gorilla in Plexiglas.

So much for Plexiglas 101. If you need more info, contact me.
-James

-- 
James Husted
The ErsatZ Planet
james at ersatzplanet.com
www.ersatzplanet.com




From controlkeys at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 24 18:09:01 2001
From: controlkeys at hotmail.com (Bill Keys)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:09:01 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PV-1 Pitch-Voltage Converter
Message-ID: <F102ArGvnCjnZS08i7M0000f597@hotmail.com>

Also:

4); Tap into the control line of your DC-10's propeller. The pitch control 
probably already works off of a voltage, but can be scaled to V/Oct or 
V/Hz....


>From: "John L Marshall" <john.l.marshall at gte.net>
>I know that some on this list like alternate controllers. The topic of 
>pitch
>to voltage converters brought alternative ideas.
>
>1) Use a cheezy Kustom radar unit to measure the speed of the pitch. It 
>must
>be a Kustom radar unit. It is the same company that made the cheezy guitar
>amps with the tuck-and-roll finish. The speed reading can be converted to
>analog voltage.
>
>2) Use a pressure transducer in the catchers mit.
>
>3) The rate that the droplets of maple fall into the bucket could be
>measured. The period measured and converted to a voltage.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <marmot1 at magma.ca>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 4:48 PM
>Subject: [sdiy] PV-1 Pitch-Voltage Converter
>
>
> > Hi List,
> > Just wanted to mention that I have recently built one of Harry's PV-1
> > pitch-voltage converter boards (available from EFM), and it works
> > nicely. As a test, I set the Jupiter-8 to monophonic mode, fed the JP-8
> > output into the PV-1, whose output in turn controlled the frequency of a
> > cloned Moog Prodigy VCO. Got tight tracking over 5 octaves (length of
> > JP-8 kbd). As the converter works by measuring the instantaneous period
> > of the input waveform (rather than being a simple tachometer-type
> > circuit) it also follows rapid pitch changes - portamento, LFO mode
> > quite well. Harry was quite helpful with "technical support".
> > Mike
>

+_+_Yes, honey, I know there are 25 boxes of electronic junk cluttering up 
the attic. They will, one day, magically be transformed into a modular 
synthesizer cluttering up the attic.... www.mp3.com/OriginalSimulacrum _+_+


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From don at till.com  Fri Aug 24 18:35:54 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <3B8654CF.44B07989@cityweb.de> (message from Ingo Debus on Fri,
	24 Aug 2001 15:21:19 +0200)
Message-ID: <200108241635.JAA15582@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:21:19 +0200
   From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>

   Paul Perry wrote:
   > Some guitar fx boxes assume that they are being fed from 500k impedance,
   > otherwise the tone is a bit different.

   But isn't the output impedance of an electric guitar often much lower? A
   magnetic guitar pickup is a coil after all, and the guitar's volume pot
   won't make the impedance higher if set to max.

The typicial guitar pickup has a DC resistance of around 3000 to 5000
ohms.  There's a lot of inductance, somewhere around 1 Henry or so,
and some capacitance, so the impedance can get pretty high near the
resonant frequency, which might be around 3000 to 8000 Hz or
thereabouts. 

The load impedance affects the sound quality of guitar pickups, and in
general you don't want to run a guitar into less than 1M ohm.  There
are some stomp boxes that violate that rule, chalk it up to
quirkiness.  The worst offender is probably the wah-wah pedal (Vox,
Cry Baby, Maestro, whatever, they're all the same circuit).

   If the fx box needs a high source impedance, why not put just a
   resistor in series with the input?

A transformer is much closer to a guitar pickup impedancewise.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Fri Aug 24 20:03:43 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:03:43 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
Message-ID: <8b.b69bc9b.28b7f0ff@aol.com>

Hi Everybody, 

I am looking at a power supply I made on the scope, and I am not sure if it 
is working right.

I have the settings at 5ms /cm and .01 volts/CM, when AC coupled I get what 
looks like noise that ranges about one fifth of one cm, so .0020V, when DC 
coupled I get what looks like a straight line that is kind of dotted, every 
3ms there is a little gap, and it looks like the trace is shooting upward vey 
quickly at these gaps and they appear to shoot up to the top of the screen.  
but when I change the volt/div settings to chase itand see how far it spikes, 
it becomes a solid bar, but it is still present when changing the time 
settings.



the power supply is basically like this,

        ----------------            
---------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--317---10uFelco--100nF
[24VCT at 1.25A]  4x 4001 rect,diodes 
       -----------------            
----------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--337--10uF elco-100nF


the first three caps are electolytic as is the 10uF at the end.
I am thinking that maybe the 10uf is too big to be at the end like that, but 
the schemo I got it from had them. 
I have all the caps and stuff wired correctly the PS works, giving out +/- 
12.3V,
although I don't have the mains ground wired to the secondary 0v yet.

what mai doin wrong?

thanks

Ed


From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Aug 24 21:10:15 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:10:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <200108241635.JAA15582@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <B7AC10C7.229DB%grichter@asapnet.net>

It is a rather poor design that is dependent on the source. Any halfway
decent design will have a buffer at the input to prevent loading on the
source. Also to prevent circuit action from being dependent on the source,
otherwise the device will behave differently with every guitar.

But these ARE guitar pedals we are talking about, and I have seen some
designs that are completely laughable. They may have been profitable to
sell, but they are still crap designs. There is just not that much you can
do with one transistor and a 9 volt battery.

> 
> If the fx box needs a high source impedance, why not put just a
> resistor in series with the input?
> 
> A transformer is much closer to a guitar pickup impedancewise.
> 




From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 24 21:13:11 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:13:11 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] pin 5 of the tl081
Message-ID: <F51IuSRhAssGzeKkWGP00006d30@hotmail.com>

I was building a MS-20 type Voltage Controlled filter on a protoboard and 
ran into something strange.  I thought that pin 5 of a tl081 was not 
connected, it turns out that it is something called "bal".  I got my VCF to 
work and it sounds very cool.  Strangely, the tl081 used only functions if 
the output is connected to the bal pin.

What does pin 5, the bal pin, do?

Sorry, I don't think I should be too specific, just because the filter is 
someone else's design and people are very sensitive (and with ample good 
reason) about design details.

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)



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From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Fri Aug 24 21:34:41 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:34:41 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Is this PSU OK?
Message-ID: <9f.1a55b866.28b80651@aol.com>

Actually the transformer is 24VCT  1.5A, not 1.25A as I said before.

what are these gaps?


From ultrahype at compuserve.com  Fri Aug 24 21:45:17 2001
From: ultrahype at compuserve.com (ultrahype)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:45:17 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 
Message-ID: <002201c12cd5$4defc560$0100a8c0@mainsystem>

hi 
i am a very beginner level DIY'er 

is there a good souce or alot of little sources for SCHEMATICS for modular synth moduals and  FX ?

also does any have a schematic for something like this Damn reamp thing so i can just make one myself already , and a superhigh quality direct box and MIC pre is something i would like to take a look at too

thanks for the help

Jim
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From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Fri Aug 24 21:45:18 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:45:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 74ls379 saga
Message-ID: <005e01c12cd5$4e4e6020$779b01d5@paul>

Dear all,

 I finally managed to get a couple of these babies..
from Greenweld :-)

  Thanks for all the offers/suggestions

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 24 22:12:32 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
Message-ID: <F236ZFUtfLgnEEVVala0000232c@hotmail.com>

Not Fair (completely)

If I'm building a fuzzbox (for instance) I could use a very low
input impedance. When its off I can use the bypass switch to
disconnect it...

So in that case I can "abuse" what would be the normal guitar
loading, knowing that I will not notice after the fuzz stage.

I'm doing this with a hex pickup... my loading is 1K ohm. It would
probably kill all "fidelity" but I want fundamental anyway... harmonics 
would screw me up. With a 1K the NE5532 is a very happy
preamp.

There is a lot of strange interaction in pedals, and some of it
is more like "features" than "bugs".  I have sometimes added buffer
circuits to pedals, only to have users complain that they don't sound
'right' anymore.

Like those SICK PUPPIES who actually LIKE the sound of BBDs... you
KNOW who YOU are !!!

H^) harry

PS: Guitar pickups these days have a very BROAD spectrum of impedance
ranges.



>From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
>Reply-To: grichter at asapnet.net
>To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>, <debus at cityweb.de>
>CC: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:10:15 -0500
>
>It is a rather poor design that is dependent on the source. Any halfway
>decent design will have a buffer at the input to prevent loading on the
>source. Also to prevent circuit action from being dependent on the source,
>otherwise the device will behave differently with every guitar.
>
>But these ARE guitar pedals we are talking about, and I have seen some
>designs that are completely laughable. They may have been profitable to
>sell, but they are still crap designs. There is just not that much you can
>do with one transistor and a 9 volt battery.
>
> >
> > If the fx box needs a high source impedance, why not put just a
> > resistor in series with the input?
> >
> > A transformer is much closer to a guitar pickup impedancewise.
> >
>
>


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From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 24 22:24:10 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:24:10 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
Message-ID: <F211c0Ne0PaLI9mK6PY000116fa@hotmail.com>

Do you have a dual trace scope... are both channels ON ???

Try using one channel only... The scope may be set to chop mode
and it is bouncing from channel to channel...

But every 3mS for this chop would normally be WAY too slow. Usually
you could only see chopping at very fast sweep speeds.

Do you have a 10X sweep switch ??  It might be .5mS you are looking at

Notice... I'm suspecting your test equipment here rather than the circuit. 
You need to convince yourself that this signal is real...

Try looking at some other, known signals like the probe cal output
of the scope.

With the AC coupling you could see ripple and noise... It sounds like your 
ripple and noise are VERY low, if the measurement is correct.

Once you switch to DC, you will probably have to be at maybe 2V to 5V
per division to see the "whole" signal.

If you set the vertical gain higher, the signal should blow right off the 
screen.

H^)  harry

PS : are you SURE you wanna tie the mains ground to the 0VDC point ?
I'd do that later (maybe much later)



>From: ElmacacoX at aol.com
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:03:43 EDT
>
>Hi Everybody,
>
>I am looking at a power supply I made on the scope, and I am not sure if it
>is working right.
>
>I have the settings at 5ms /cm and .01 volts/CM, when AC coupled I get what
>looks like noise that ranges about one fifth of one cm, so .0020V, when DC
>coupled I get what looks like a straight line that is kind of dotted, every
>3ms there is a little gap, and it looks like the trace is shooting upward 
>vey
>quickly at these gaps and they appear to shoot up to the top of the screen.
>but when I change the volt/div settings to chase itand see how far it 
>spikes,
>it becomes a solid bar, but it is still present when changing the time
>settings.
>
>
>
>the power supply is basically like this,
>
>         ----------------
>---------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--317---10uFelco--100nF
>[24VCT at 1.25A]  4x 4001 rect,diodes
>        -----------------
>----------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--337--10uF elco-100nF
>
>
>the first three caps are electolytic as is the 10uF at the end.
>I am thinking that maybe the 10uf is too big to be at the end like that, 
>but
>the schemo I got it from had them.
>I have all the caps and stuff wired correctly the PS works, giving out +/-
>12.3V,
>although I don't have the mains ground wired to the secondary 0v yet.
>
>what mai doin wrong?
>
>thanks
>
>Ed


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From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Aug 24 22:26:18 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:26:18 -0700
Subject: [sdiy]
References: <002201c12cd5$4defc560$0100a8c0@mainsystem>
Message-ID: <3B86B86A.8B270B51@silcom.com>

    There is all kinds of stuff...

    Since I can only remember my own URL off the top of my head (there
are links to other places as well), here is one place to start:
http://www.silcom.com/~patchell

    -Jim


ultrahype wrote:

> hii am a very beginner level DIY'er is there a good souce or alot of
> little sources for SCHEMATICS for modular synth moduals and  FX ? also
> does any have a schematic for something like this Damn reamp thing so
> i can just make one myself already , and a superhigh quality direct
> box and MIC pre is something i would like to take a look at too thanks
> for the help Jim



From tom at tommay.net  Fri Aug 24 22:58:03 2001
From: tom at tommay.net (Tom May)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 13:58:03 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: Don Tillman's message of "Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:35:54 -0700 (PDT)"
References: <200108241635.JAA15582@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <E15aO1j-00035V-00@no-spam.tommay.net>

Don Tillman <don at till.com> writes:

> The typicial guitar pickup has a DC resistance of around 3000 to 5000
> ohms.  There's a lot of inductance, somewhere around 1 Henry or so,
> and some capacitance, so the impedance can get pretty high near the
> resonant frequency, which might be around 3000 to 8000 Hz or
> thereabouts. 
> 
> The load impedance affects the sound quality of guitar pickups, and in
> general you don't want to run a guitar into less than 1M ohm.  There
> are some stomp boxes that violate that rule, chalk it up to
> quirkiness.  The worst offender is probably the wah-wah pedal (Vox,
> Cry Baby, Maestro, whatever, they're all the same circuit).

The Cry Baby GCB-95 I bought about 10 years ago has an emitter
follower buffer on the input.  My couple year old Vox V847 is the same
circuit w/o the buffer but with a more reasonable pot that doesn't put
the usable wah range into about 1 degree of travel.  An older Cry Baby
I have is the same as the Vox.

Ob diy: actually I gutted the GCB-95 and it's now a CV controller.

fTom.


From don at till.com  Fri Aug 24 23:32:25 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:32:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <E15aO1j-00035V-00@no-spam.tommay.net> (message from Tom May on
	24 Aug 2001 13:58:03 -0700)
Message-ID: <200108242132.OAA08348@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: Tom May <tom at tommay.net>
   Date: 24 Aug 2001 13:58:03 -0700

   Don Tillman <don at till.com> writes:
   > The worst offender is probably the wah-wah pedal (Vox,
   > Cry Baby, Maestro, whatever, they're all the same circuit).

   The Cry Baby GCB-95 I bought about 10 years ago has an emitter
   follower buffer on the input.  My couple year old Vox V847 is the same
   circuit w/o the buffer but with a more reasonable pot that doesn't put
   the usable wah range into about 1 degree of travel.  

The senator meant to say:

The *original* Cry Baby, Vox, Maestro, etc. are all the same circuit
with no buffer.  There exist a whole bunch of variations too.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From synth1 at airmail.net  Fri Aug 24 23:39:31 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:39:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Module Patchsheets in JPG and WMF
Message-ID: <001101c12ce5$42e19ee0$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Thanks to Ken Elhardt for these.

For a more fancy version (and, it was Keyboard mags Website of the Month):

www.modular-planner.com

Paul S.


> Below are links to the MOTM module patchsheets in JPG and WMF formats that
> people requested.  I read the WMF format back into Corel Draw and it looks
> almost as good as the original, most likely providing you have the couple
of
> fonts listed below or something similar.  So I hope it works out.  And the
> JPG is just one big image of the modules at a scale of 72 dpi.  Since I
don't
> know if the intent is to print them on a printer or just to display them
on
> the screen, they are reasonably large now and can be scaled down if
needed.
> Or if you prefer the modules to be separate files that you can open one at
a
> time and cut and paste, then you will have to cut each module out and save
it
> as a separate file yourself.  Links below.
>
> Fonts Used (only applies to WMF format):
> Swiss911 XCm BT
> Swis721 Cn BT
>
> http://members.aol.com/isobarb8/patchsheet.jpg
> http://members.aol.com/isobarb8/patchsheet.wmf
>




From leaf at babble.vibrant.org  Fri Aug 24 23:47:04 2001
From: leaf at babble.vibrant.org (leaf at babble.vibrant.org)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <B7AC10C7.229DB%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10108241428320.482-100000@babble.vibrant.org>


> It is a rather poor design that is dependent on the source. Any halfway
> decent design will have a buffer at the input to prevent loading on the
> source. Also to prevent circuit action from being dependent on the source,
> otherwise the device will behave differently with every guitar.

Most guitar pedals aren't purchased for their solid engineering principles
but rather on what they do to the tone.  Those same design flaws might be
part of what gives each pedal its unique character.

Also, guitarists tend to know what combinations work well together -
marshall stacks with gibson les pauls, fender amps with strats, etc.  I
would imagine the same goes for the pedals.

Good engineering?  perhaps not - but what a killer sound.

cheers,
Phil



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 25 00:11:40 2001
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:11:40 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
Message-ID: <F47AxwEzx0AEG2UYhPQ000119a3@hotmail.com>

Not necessarily....

If it is the chopping signal you are seeing... and you ground
the probes you might NOT see the problem... Think of generating
a square wave between the voltage of the upper trace and the lower
trace... if they are the same you cannot see any glitches... but
if they differ you see the chop frequency...

oooh... maybe the scope is actually in ALTERNATE mode and sweeping
two very different signals ???

That's why I suggested using ONE channel to eliminate this possibility.


H^) harry (whose scope does not chop very well following an encounter
of the ungrounded high voltage discharge kind....)


>From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
>Reply-To: music.maker at gte.net
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:09:17
>
>Well, if you ground the probe tip with the scope set the
>way the problem appears, it should still do it if there's
>an issue with the scope.  (AFAIK)
>
>harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
> >Do you have a dual trace scope... are both channels ON ???
> >
> >Try using one channel only... The scope may be set to chop mode
> >and it is bouncing from channel to channel...
> >
> >But every 3mS for this chop would normally be WAY too slow. Usually
> >you could only see chopping at very fast sweep speeds.
> >
> >Do you have a 10X sweep switch ??  It might be .5mS you are looking at
> >
> >Notice... I'm suspecting your test equipment here rather than the 
>circuit.
> >You need to convince yourself that this signal is real...
> >
> >Try looking at some other, known signals like the probe cal output
> >of the scope.
> >
> >With the AC coupling you could see ripple and noise... It sounds like 
>your
> >ripple and noise are VERY low, if the measurement is correct.
> >
> >Once you switch to DC, you will probably have to be at maybe 2V to 5V
> >per division to see the "whole" signal.
> >
> >If you set the vertical gain higher, the signal should blow right off the
> >screen.
> >
> >H^)  harry
> >
> >PS : are you SURE you wanna tie the mains ground to the 0VDC point ?
> >I'd do that later (maybe much later)
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: ElmacacoX at aol.com
> >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
> >>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:03:43 EDT
> >>
> >>Hi Everybody,
> >>
> >>I am looking at a power supply I made on the scope, and I am not sure if 
>it
> >>is working right.
> >>
> >>I have the settings at 5ms /cm and .01 volts/CM, when AC coupled I get 
>what
> >>looks like noise that ranges about one fifth of one cm, so .0020V, when 
>DC
> >>coupled I get what looks like a straight line that is kind of dotted, 
>every
> >>3ms there is a little gap, and it looks like the trace is shooting 
>upward
> >>vey
> >>quickly at these gaps and they appear to shoot up to the top of the 
>screen.
> >>but when I change the volt/div settings to chase itand see how far it
> >>spikes,
> >>it becomes a solid bar, but it is still present when changing the time
> >>settings.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>the power supply is basically like this,
> >>
> >>         ----------------
> >>---------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--317---10uFelco--100nF
> >>[24VCT at 1.25A]  4x 4001 rect,diodes
> >>        -----------------
> >>----------------4700uf--1000uf-100nF--337--10uF elco-100nF
> >>
> >>
> >>the first three caps are electolytic as is the 10uF at the end.
> >>I am thinking that maybe the 10uf is too big to be at the end like that,
> >>but
> >>the schemo I got it from had them.
> >>I have all the caps and stuff wired correctly the PS works, giving out 
>+/-
> >>12.3V,
> >>although I don't have the mains ground wired to the secondary 0v yet.
> >>
> >>what mai doin wrong?
> >>
> >>thanks
> >>
> >>Ed
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
>
>=========================================================
>- Government: The other religion.
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
>-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Sat Aug 25 00:14:43 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:14:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] RE mic pre
Message-ID: <E15aPGn-000CQ1-0U@anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net>

Hi all,
in regards to a high quality mic pre, there are lads out there if you just
do a quick search, but they tend to be in two broad categories: Old (neve
style, sound very nice, but not that low noise, and reliant on odd switches
and expensive transformers), or new style (way more complicated, very low
noise, but can't be pushed as hard as the old designs).
loads of arguments over transistors or op amps due to distortion, linearity,
noise etc

what do other people think of op amps or discrete approaches.

Seb Carr

----------
From: "ultrahype" <ultrahype at compuserve.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Subject: [sdiy]
Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001, 8:45 pm


hi
i am a very beginner level DIY'er

is there a good souce or alot of little sources for SCHEMATICS for modular
synth moduals and  FX ?

also does any have a schematic for something like this Damn reamp thing so i
can just make one myself already , and a superhigh quality direct box and
MIC pre is something i would like to take a look at too

thanks for the help

Jim

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From tpe123 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 25 01:31:28 2001
From: tpe123 at yahoo.com (Tim Escobedo)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:31:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <B7AC10C7.229DB%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <20010824233128.74526.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>

The union between guitar and fuzzbox is a holy one, and any "buffer"
between the two constitutes tampering with God's grand plan...

At least that's what they taught me in Sunday school.

--- Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net> wrote:
> It is a rather poor design that is dependent on the source. Any
> halfway
> decent design will have a buffer at the input to prevent loading on
> the
> source. Also to prevent circuit action from being dependent on the
> source,
> otherwise the device will behave differently with every guitar.
>
> But these ARE guitar pedals we are talking about, and I have seen
> some
> designs that are completely laughable. They may have been profitable
> to
> sell, but they are still crap designs. There is just not that much
> you can
> do with one transistor and a 9 volt battery.
>
> >
> > If the fx box needs a high source impedance, why not put just a
> > resistor in series with the input?
> >
> > A transformer is much closer to a guitar pickup impedancewise.
> >
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From t.hogers at home.nl  Sat Aug 25 02:21:53 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:21:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <20010824233128.74526.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001501c12cfb$f1786fe0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Blasphemous, everyone knows that E-guitars are the work of Satan!!

Theo


From: Tim Escobedo <tpe123 at yahoo.com>

> The union between guitar and fuzzbox is a holy one, and any "buffer"
> between the two constitutes tampering with God's grand plan...
> 
> At least that's what they taught me in Sunday school.
> 




From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Sat Aug 25 02:57:36 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:57:36 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
Message-ID: <62.1314f431.28b85200@aol.com>

OK, I think it is some glitch in the scope, but I am not sure since I don't 
know these things very well.   

I am using only one channel, although my scope does have chop and alternate, 
I am firmly in one channel.

I removed the 10uf caps from the end of the supply and the chop went away.. 
for a little while, I accidentally nudged the calibration pot that is on the 
knob of volts/div and it came back, I moved it back to where it was but the 
gaps continued.  this is why I think it is something with my (very old) scope

then I switched channels and there were no gaps.

thus my dillemma, 

which channel is right?  

I seem to feel that the problem is not in the circuit at this point.  

Harry, No I am not sure I want to connect the mains ground to 0V,  it just 
feels dangerous to me, (especially so after you just said about it!) I said 
about it in case it had some bearing on this problem.  

Oh and this doesn't show up when the probe tip is grounded or with the 
scope's test signal.

i have a 5x sweep switch, and it was off at the time of the 3ms observation.

I guess it in't something to worry too much about, 

my filter and LFO seem to run very well on it, I think it just means that my 
VCO's have some other problem ;(

thanks for everything guys, If I find anything else out I'll report back.

Eduardo



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Aug 25 04:29:00 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:29:00 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] RE mic pre
References: <E15aPGn-000CQ1-0U@anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <3B870D6B.E4EFBD85@prodigy.net>

I think....

A 'super high quality' preamp or direct box might not be the ideal
beginner project.  Working the bugs out to get maximum performance
is a daunting task.  I'd try maybe a simple effect box (fuzzbox, wah,
something)
as it would use cheaper components with less risk.

Just trying to make a good enough power supply for high quality audio
is not a beginner project...

Of course if you are stubborn (tenacious) we WILL help you...   ;^P

H^) harry

Seb Carr wrote:

> Hi all,
> in regards to a high quality mic pre, there are lads out there if you
> just do a quick search, but they tend to be in two broad categories:
> Old (neve style, sound very nice, but not that low noise, and reliant
> on odd switches and expensive transformers), or new style (way more
> complicated, very low noise, but can't be pushed as hard as the old
> designs).
> loads of arguments over transistors or op amps due to distortion,
> linearity, noise etc
>
> what do other people think of op amps or discrete approaches.
>
> Seb Carr
>
> ----------
> From: "ultrahype" <ultrahype at compuserve.com>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: [sdiy]
> Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001, 8:45 pm
>
>
>
>      hi
>      i am a very beginner level DIY'er
>
>      is there a good souce or alot of little sources for
>      SCHEMATICS for modular synth moduals and  FX ?
>
>      also does any have a schematic for something like this Damn
>      reamp thing so i can just make one myself already , and a
>      superhigh quality direct box and MIC pre is something i
>      would like to take a look at too
>
>      thanks for the help
>
>      Jim
>
>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Aug 25 04:37:13 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:37:13 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <20010824233128.74526.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B870F58.961942A9@prodigy.net>

WOW !!!

You had a really COOL teacher then....

They taught me that Moses was trying to escape from Pharoah's army
and got caught at the bank of the Red Sea. So he called the Army Corps
of Engineers who promptly built a pontoon bridge and Moses and the
Israelites were able to escape. When they saw Pharoah trying to follow them
across the bridge, Moses called in theAir Force and a squadron of Huey
Cobras
destroyed the bridge with a missle strike. Pharoah and his tanks were sent
to
the bottom of the Red Sea, and Moses and his people were safe.

That isn't exactly what they told me... you would not BELIEVE what they
actually told me....

H^) harry

Tim Escobedo wrote:

> The union between guitar and fuzzbox is a holy one, and any "buffer"
> between the two constitutes tampering with God's grand plan...
>
> At least that's what they taught me in Sunday school.
>
> --- Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net> wrote:
> > It is a rather poor design that is dependent on the source. Any
> > halfway
> > decent design will have a buffer at the input to prevent loading on
> > the
> > source. Also to prevent circuit action from being dependent on the
> > source,
> > otherwise the device will behave differently with every guitar.
> >
> > But these ARE guitar pedals we are talking about, and I have seen
> > some
> > designs that are completely laughable. They may have been profitable
> > to
> > sell, but they are still crap designs. There is just not that much
> > you can
> > do with one transistor and a 9 volt battery.
> >
> > >
> > > If the fx box needs a high source impedance, why not put just a
> > > resistor in series with the input?
> > >
> > > A transformer is much closer to a guitar pickup impedancewise.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Aug 25 05:02:50 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:02:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] is this PSU OK?
References: <62.1314f431.28b85200@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B871559.D9BF1330@prodigy.net>

Hi Eduardo  (and any lurking newbies ... listen in)

Try looking at some signal you are sure of... with each channel.
Try using both probes looking at the same point, they should be the same signal.

You may indeed have a flakey scope channel on an old scope, or even a new
one.  Check that your probes are OK, switch them and see if the problem
stays with the channel.

Then decide which channel you believe....

If you have many modules, try playing with the knobs on the synth and see if
any changes happen... maybe its some glitch of the circuit riding into the scope
?

Try measuring the AC secondary of the transformer  (24VAC) and look at the sine
wave. This should be 16.66mS for a complete cycle (60Hz).  This will tell you if
the timebase is accurate and near calibrated. The look for the 3mS problem
again...

BTW... this is an EXCELLENT reason NOT to hook the earth ground to the
scope.  If you then put the scope ground at a different point, you have a short
circuit
through the probe... BLAM.  There are four ways to avoid this...

1) do NOT allow the secondary of the transformer isolated circuit touch earth
ground
anywhere...

2) Use a ground lift plug on the scope so the scope is not connected to earth
ground.
WARNING this will make the scope case live to whatever potential the probe ground
is... in a 24VAC powered circuit no big deal, but potentially lethal on mains
voltage.  This is what I usually DO... I prefer the shock hazard to the 'hot
metal flying in my face because of a short through the probe' hazard.  As a rule
I never hook up the scope to mains powered equipment....

3) Use a 120VAC isolation transformer to power everything you are testing,
including the audio monitor amp...  If you violate the ground you are at risk
again...
In this case... the scope may be safely earth grounded.  Any voltage will be
across the isolation transformer which can safely er... isolate it.

4) Use a true differential input on the scope (hah very few have that...) and
don't use
ANY grounds on the probes... OR use a differential probe for the scope (these
cost about $500 so I guess you don't have them.  In my work they are a MUST and
we have them all the time. When you look at 480VAC lines with a scope, safety is
absolutely essential !!!

3mS is not related to the line frequency (no way) but if the timebase is wrong
and
its 8.33mS it COULD be the power supply.

This is what I've mentioned before, you need to trust your test equipment... but
not
blindly. Make it prove itself from time to time.

If you find that the channel really is suspect... use the other channel for all
critical
work.  Maybe sometime when you get better at it you can tackle the scope repair.

MY scope was blown from about 1980 to about 1992... when I finally decided that I

had the skill to fix it and shame on me if I could not... Now both channels work,
but
with some chopper noise (that is what was blown up!).  The chopper was
essentially a Diode Ring VCA... something that needed a few years of DIY to
recognise for what it was.... (tee hee)

H^) harry

ElmacacoX at aol.com wrote:

> OK, I think it is some glitch in the scope, but I am not sure since I don't
> know these things very well.
>
> I am using only one channel, although my scope does have chop and alternate,
> I am firmly in one channel.
>
> I removed the 10uf caps from the end of the supply and the chop went away..
> for a little while, I accidentally nudged the calibration pot that is on the
> knob of volts/div and it came back, I moved it back to where it was but the
> gaps continued.  this is why I think it is something with my (very old) scope
>
> then I switched channels and there were no gaps.
>
> thus my dillemma,
>
> which channel is right?
>
> I seem to feel that the problem is not in the circuit at this point.
>
> Harry, No I am not sure I want to connect the mains ground to 0V,  it just
> feels dangerous to me, (especially so after you just said about it!) I said
> about it in case it had some bearing on this problem.
>
> Oh and this doesn't show up when the probe tip is grounded or with the
> scope's test signal.
>
> i have a 5x sweep switch, and it was off at the time of the 3ms observation.
>
> I guess it in't something to worry too much about,
>
> my filter and LFO seem to run very well on it, I think it just means that my
> VCO's have some other problem ;(
>
> thanks for everything guys, If I find anything else out I'll report back.
>
> Eduardo



From sexsymbol at execpc.com  Sat Aug 25 05:45:16 2001
From: sexsymbol at execpc.com (Tim Curtis)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:45:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Pot Sources
Message-ID: <001301c12d18$5a8eaf50$bf01a8c0@TIMMAY>

Hi Everyone - 

I'm currently building up a few Polyfusion modules from NOS parts, but I don't know of a good source for pots for these.  

I've got some old Allen Bradley Type J's, but I don't have enough for all the modules.  Buying the same type of thing new is awfully expensive.  

Does anyone have a recommendation for a source of a more economical solution that will fit the same holes?

Thanks,


Tim
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From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Sat Aug 25 10:14:03 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:14:03 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] looking for schematic for dual vco
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>

Hello, looking for a current (doesn't use CEM3340) Dual VCO, where I can 
mix the VCO's (i.e. Pulse/triangle etc)

Or, if I've got two VCO's, how do I mix the two? With an op-amp?

looking for more details...


nKode / Pulse 8 / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
Good Time Tribe / http://www.goodtimetribe.com
Dallas Regional Electronic Artists And Musicians 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/D-R-E-A-M
http://www.mp3.com/nkode / http://www.mp3.com/cacofone / 
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Aug 25 13:32:36 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:32:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] looking for schematic for dual vco
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
Message-ID: <20010825133236R.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: cacofone <pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com>
Subject: [AH] looking for schematic for dual vco
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:14:03 -0500

> Hello, looking for a current (doesn't use CEM3340) Dual VCO, where I can 
> mix the VCO's (i.e. Pulse/triangle etc)
> 
> Or, if I've got two VCO's, how do I mix the two? With an op-amp?
> 
> looking for more details...

This is really an Synth-DIY list question... but anyway:

Take an op-amp. Hook the (+) input to the ground. Hook in a resistor
(say 10k Ohm) between (-) input and the output. Connect your input
signals through resistors (say 10k Ohm again) to the (-) input.
This will give you a summing of the signals (VCOs or whatever) on the
output. You should be aware that the signal is inverted, but maybe you
don't care.

If you want level controls, just damp the signals through pots and
hook the tapper through the input resistors.

Hope that came out clear.

Cheers,
Magnus



From jhaible at t-online.de  Sat Aug 25 14:34:45 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:34:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
References: <200108211408.f7LE8SW06466@smtp007.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <01f001c12d63$71d3c240$2b7be03e@debitel.net>

Thanks for your congratulations and best wishes.
Here's a picture:
http://home.t-online.de/home/jhaible/Tassi/tassilo1.jpg

I think Tangerine Dream had playground noises on the end
of Phaedra (title track). And isn't Jerome Froese's photo
on Epsilon In Malaysian Pale ? This leaves some hope,
doesn't it ?

Kind Regards,

JH.



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
An: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. August 2001 07:08
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] OT: Happy father


> Hey, baby noises could be used as all sorts of fun
> input.  Sample and s l o w down and you have a wierd
> random voltage LFO.  Cut pieces out and repeat quickly
> and you have an odd waveform VCO.  Catching a nice
> loud belch would be difficult, but maybe make a good
> bass sound...
>
> "Nils Pipenbrinck" <np at inverse-entertainment.de> wrote:
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "jh." <jhaible at t-online.de>
> >> I'm a proud and happy father:
> >
> >Hey, couldn't you put some mp3 samples on your website please? I would
like
> >to hear it scream :)
> >
> >Congratulations to you and your wife...
> >
> >    Nils Pipenbrinck
> >
> >
> >
>
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>
>




From c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz  Sat Aug 25 15:30:11 2001
From: c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz (clowndog)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:30:11 +1200
Subject: [sdiy] s/pdif mod on the waldorf XT
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
Message-ID: <006801c12d6a$11630590$5f4fb4ca@clowndog>

Hello people

I have a plans to add s/pdif outputs to my microwave XT synth

I need to find a kit that will accept the digital stream, with bit clock,
frame clock, and master clock signals.. and convert this to s/pdif or aes.

Anyone know of such things?

cheers
Mike



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Aug 25 15:55:20 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:55:20 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
In-Reply-To: <01f001c12d63$71d3c240$2b7be03e@debitel.net>
References: <200108211408.f7LE8SW06466@smtp007.mailsrvcs.net>
	<01f001c12d63$71d3c240$2b7be03e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <20010825155520C.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] OT: Happy father
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:34:45 +0200

> Thanks for your congratulations and best wishes.
> Here's a picture:
> http://home.t-online.de/home/jhaible/Tassi/tassilo1.jpg

Ah! Photographic proof! Wounderfull!

In just a few months, you will think that a lot have happend with this
little kid!

> I think Tangerine Dream had playground noises on the end
> of Phaedra (title track).

Indeed it has.

> And isn't Jerome Froese's photo on Epsilon In Malaysian Pale ?

Jerome's photo is on many albums, just look at the back side of
Phaedra, there is a baby-face... that's Jerome.

> This leaves some hope, doesn't it ?

Indeed. I guess you will stick to this German tradition and have
Tassilo somewhere in the graphics of your next CD?

Give my best to your wife!

Cheers,
Magnus



From sbernardi at home.net  Sat Aug 25 16:22:25 2001
From: sbernardi at home.net (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:22:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] looking for schematic for dual vco
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3B87B4A1.9C1286AC@home.net>

Let's make sure what you're asking is what you really mean.  The term "mix"
usually refers to a simple summation of multiple signals. The mixed output
will sound like two separate tones if the frequencies of the input signals
are far apart, and will sound like tonal variations if they are close
together.  You could, for instance, mix the outputs of a single VCO to do
this.
If the frequencies are just slightly different, you get a pleasing audio
effect called "beating", where the phases add and cancel over time, varying
the amplitude.  This is what chorus circuits simulate.
You might want a general purpose mixer module to mix multiple signals,
rather than a dedicated circuit to mix just the two VCO's. And yes, it's
based on an opamp in what is called a "summing amplifier" configuration.
Here's a schematic for a general purpose mixer module:
http://members.home.net/sbernardi/elec/mixer.html

Another way to combine two VCO signals is to multiply them (rather than
sum). This is done by a Ring Modulator circuit.
http://members.home.net/sbernardi/elec/og2/og2_ringmod.html

And yet another way is to "crossfade". This is where you smoothly transition
from one waveform into another, usually under voltage control. Jurgen
Haible's Interpolating Scanner circuit is a good example of this:
http://home.t-online.de/home/jhaible/jh_ipscan.html

Now, as far as a dual VCO, you said you don't like the CEM3340, but here's
one based on the CEM3374 dual VCO chip (available from Synthesis Technology
for $15).
http://members.home.net/sbernardi/elec/og2/og2_cem3374.html

cacofone wrote:

> Hello, looking for a current (doesn't use CEM3340) Dual VCO, where I can
> mix the VCO's (i.e. Pulse/triangle etc)
>
> Or, if I've got two VCO's, how do I mix the two? With an op-amp?
>
> looking for more details...
>
> nKode / Pulse 8 / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
> Good Time Tribe / http://www.goodtimetribe.com
> Dallas Regional Electronic Artists And Musicians
> http://www.mp3.com/stations/D-R-E-A-M
> http://www.mp3.com/nkode / http://www.mp3.com/cacofone /
> http://www.mp3.com/pulse8

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at home.net




From matti at devo.com  Sat Aug 25 16:55:18 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:55:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] ad633 fun, psu
In-Reply-To: <20010825133236R.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251010390.30757-100000@whipit.devo.com>


so, having recieved my ad633's, I decided to use them. using the fatman's
+8/-12 power, the output sounds much more like the two inputs summed, than
multiplied. I've tried both the simple ad633 circuits floating around, and
opamp gain stages fr the inputs. Anybody?


I have two wall warts for use here, 12VAC and 10VAC outputs. Is it
possible to use the two together as a 22VAC Power supply? Should one lead
from each be tied to each other? For ground, would it be better to use a
trim pot to adjust the point at which the two transformers are tied to
each other, or leave this floating, and use capacitors between the the
remaining leads?


thanks


-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From grichter at asapnet.net  Sat Aug 25 17:16:22 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:16:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <F236ZFUtfLgnEEVVala0000232c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B7AD2B76.22B21%grichter@asapnet.net>

OK, I stand corrected. It is after all, the end result that counts.

I knew a guitar player named Pedar Hedman who played under the name of "Lord
Fuzzy". He would take his guitar cords, chop them to pieces and splice them
back together with masking tape. When I asked him why he did that, he
replied "Because it sounds fuzzier that way". And it did.

Believe me, I have no wish to rain on any ones parade ;^)

> From: "Happy Harry" <paia2720 at hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: harrybissell at prodigy.net
> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:32 +0000
> To: grichter at asapnet.net, owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl, debus at cityweb.de
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
> 
> Not Fair (completely)
> 
> If I'm building a fuzzbox (for instance) I could use a very low
> input impedance. When its off I can use the bypass switch to
> disconnect it...
> 
> So in that case I can "abuse" what would be the normal guitar
> loading, knowing that I will not notice after the fuzz stage.
> 
> I'm doing this with a hex pickup... my loading is 1K ohm. It would
> probably kill all "fidelity" but I want fundamental anyway... harmonics
> would screw me up. With a 1K the NE5532 is a very happy
> preamp.
> 
> There is a lot of strange interaction in pedals, and some of it
> is more like "features" than "bugs".  I have sometimes added buffer
> circuits to pedals, only to have users complain that they don't sound
> 'right' anymore.
> 
> Like those SICK PUPPIES who actually LIKE the sound of BBDs... you
> KNOW who YOU are !!!
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> PS: Guitar pickups these days have a very BROAD spectrum of impedance
> ranges.
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
>> Reply-To: grichter at asapnet.net
>> To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>, <debus at cityweb.de>
>> CC: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
>> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:10:15 -0500
>> 
>> It is a rather poor design that is dependent on the source. Any halfway
>> decent design will have a buffer at the input to prevent loading on the
>> source. Also to prevent circuit action from being dependent on the source,
>> otherwise the device will behave differently with every guitar.
>> 
>> But these ARE guitar pedals we are talking about, and I have seen some
>> designs that are completely laughable. They may have been profitable to
>> sell, but they are still crap designs. There is just not that much you can
>> do with one transistor and a 9 volt battery.
>> 
>>> 
>>> If the fx box needs a high source impedance, why not put just a
>>> resistor in series with the input?
>>> 
>>> A transformer is much closer to a guitar pickup impedancewise.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 




From Echophazer at aol.com  Sat Aug 25 18:59:31 2001
From: Echophazer at aol.com (Echophazer at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:59:31 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] DIRECT BOX
Message-ID: <fe.b3614ae.28b93374@aol.com>

Is there any place on the web I could find a schematic of an active tube direct box?


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Aug 25 20:24:22 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:24:22 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] ad633 fun, psu
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251010390.30757-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <3B87ED55.216C8612@prodigy.net>

Hi Matti: inline

matti wrote:

> so, having recieved my ad633's, I decided to use them. using the fatman's
> +8/-12 power, the output sounds much more like the two inputs summed, than
> multiplied. I've tried both the simple ad633 circuits floating around, and
> opamp gain stages fr the inputs. Anybody?

pass...

> I have two wall warts for use here, 12VAC and 10VAC outputs. Is it
> possible to use the two together as a 22VAC Power supply?

Yes... this is AC remember....

> Should one lead
> from each be tied to each other?

Yes... so the two transformer secondaries are in series. You also need to
connect the  RIGHT lead so that the outputs are in phase. This might be a
problem
later if you can reverse the wall wart primaries in the wall socket (say THAT
fast
ten times...).  Reversing either primary or secondary phase will cause
troubles.

> For ground, would it be better to use a
> trim pot to adjust the point at which the two transformers are tied to
> each other,

bad idea...

> or leave this floating,

probably bad idea...

> and use capacitors between the the
> remaining leads?

bad idea also...

I assume that you want to make a DC supply out of this, correct ? Did you want
a
single or a dual supply?

For a single... tie the transformers in series... do NOT connect the center
lead to
anything. Add a bridge rectifier and one large cap and you are there. Expect
the
22VAC * 1.4 = DC Voltage. Under light load this will be even higher !!!  So
probably as much as 40VDC might be expected.

For a dual... use the same bridge rectifier and two capacitors. The common
point
of the capacitors is tied to the center lead of the transformers.  The
positive and negative voltages will not be equal because the inputs are not
equal. But it will work.

This is a rather desperate way to get a power supply... Finding a wall wart
with a center tap might make it easier.  I like to BUY power supplies usually,
though I have
built a few. Keep your eyes on the surplus market and you can find +/- 12V or
+/-
15VDC linear supplies for around $20. Mow lawns during the time you've saved
and
you'll even turn a profit

(or pay for the experience and... er... DIY ???)

I did build my own supplies in my early days. They do work and you will
learn...

H^)   harry   (the wealth of middle age can be a curse... but that is the
wages of having much less DIY time...)

>
>
> thanks
>
> -
> finland red
> germany black
> egypt white



From elmystico at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 25 20:36:55 2001
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Gavin Russom)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:36:55 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 troubleshooting update
Message-ID: <200108251839.f7PId4B21711@snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

hi all, continuing to troubleshoot the 4017 sequencer schematic, thanks for
the tip on the output resistor.  It seems to me that the pins on the 4017 IC
are also labelled wrong... the schematic has the output pins labelled (in
order of sequencer step) 
step 1 = pin 3
step 2 = pin 2
step 3 = pin 4
step 4 = pin 7
step 5 = pin 10
step 6 = pin 1
step 7 = pin 6
step 8 = pin 8
step 9 = pin 9
step 10 = pin 11
step 11 = pin 12

while the datasheet reads:
step 1 = pin 2
step 2 = pin 4
step 3 = pin 7
step 4 = pin 10
step 5 = pin 1
step 6 = pin 5
step 7 = pin 6
step 8 = pin 9
step 9 = pin 11
and does not include available step 10 or 11 outputs.
Do I have the wrong datasheet or is the error in the schematic?


From prototek at optonline.net  Sat Aug 25 20:40:30 2001
From: prototek at optonline.net (Prototek)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:40:30 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 Boards
Message-ID: <B7AD695E.8951%prototek@optonline.net>

   I have a SN76477 in my possession and I want to put it to use. I have
datasheets, but does anyone actually know of any documents that lay out a
plan for creating an actual synth module?
   Also, does anyone have the SE-01 board they would sell me? I'd also pay
if someone could etch a board that will coincide with the 76477.

                       thanks,
                       proto
------
"By pressing down a special key it plays a little melody."
Kraftwerk, "Pocket Calculator" 

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From matti at devo.com  Sat Aug 25 21:33:04 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:33:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 troubleshooting update
In-Reply-To: <200108251839.f7PId4B21711@snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251531280.1447-100000@whipit.devo.com>


The counting starts at 0. So,the _first_ output corresponds to _Q0_, pin
3. Go ahead and shake your first at those silly math types. Maybe you'll
start a revolution.

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Gavin Russom wrote:

> hi all, continuing to troubleshoot the 4017 sequencer schematic, thanks for
> the tip on the output resistor.  It seems to me that the pins on the 4017 IC
> are also labelled wrong... the schematic has the output pins labelled (in
> order of sequencer step)
> step 1 = pin 3
> step 2 = pin 2
...


-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Aug 25 22:17:25 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:17:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <B7AD2B76.22B21%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <3B8807D4.C4B47A3C@silcom.com>

    This reminds me of one of the worst experiences of my life.  I used to repair
music gear.  I recieved a Fender Guitar amp that was broken to fix.  It had several
problems, all of them pretty minor.  One of the things I noticed while fixing it
was that the 1/4 inch jack on the input was pretty badly corroded.  I replaced it
with a nice new shiny switchcraft jack.  The whole thing worked great when I was
done.  The mf refused to pay!  Why?  Because I destroyed the sound of his
amp...seems he would put the jack from his guitar in just so, and it would sound
"real cool".  Not any more....this is one of the reasons I won't repair anything
for anybody anymore.

Grant Richter wrote:

> OK, I stand corrected. It is after all, the end result that counts.
>
> I knew a guitar player named Pedar Hedman who played under the name of "Lord
> Fuzzy". He would take his guitar cords, chop them to pieces and splice them
> back together with masking tape. When I asked him why he did that, he
> replied "Because it sounds fuzzier that way". And it did.
>
> Believe me, I have no wish to rain on any ones parade ;^)
>
> > From: "Happy Harry" <paia2720 at hotmail.com>
> > Reply-To: harrybissell at prodigy.net
> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:32 +0000
> > To: grichter at asapnet.net, owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl, debus at cityweb.de
> > Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
> >
> > Not Fair (completely)
> >
> > If I'm building a fuzzbox (for instance) I could use a very low
> > input impedance. When its off I can use the bypass switch to
> > disconnect it...
> >
> > So in that case I can "abuse" what would be the normal guitar
> > loading, knowing that I will not notice after the fuzz stage.
> >
> > I'm doing this with a hex pickup... my loading is 1K ohm. It would
> > probably kill all "fidelity" but I want fundamental anyway... harmonics
> > would screw me up. With a 1K the NE5532 is a very happy
> > preamp.
> >
> > There is a lot of strange interaction in pedals, and some of it
> > is more like "features" than "bugs".  I have sometimes added buffer
> > circuits to pedals, only to have users complain that they don't sound
> > 'right' anymore.
> >
> > Like those SICK PUPPIES who actually LIKE the sound of BBDs... you
> > KNOW who YOU are !!!
> >
> > H^) harry
> >
> > PS: Guitar pickups these days have a very BROAD spectrum of impedance
> > ranges.
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
> >> Reply-To: grichter at asapnet.net
> >> To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>, <debus at cityweb.de>
> >> CC: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
> >> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:10:15 -0500
> >>
> >> It is a rather poor design that is dependent on the source. Any halfway
> >> decent design will have a buffer at the input to prevent loading on the
> >> source. Also to prevent circuit action from being dependent on the source,
> >> otherwise the device will behave differently with every guitar.
> >>
> >> But these ARE guitar pedals we are talking about, and I have seen some
> >> designs that are completely laughable. They may have been profitable to
> >> sell, but they are still crap designs. There is just not that much you can
> >> do with one transistor and a 9 volt battery.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> If the fx box needs a high source impedance, why not put just a
> >>> resistor in series with the input?
> >>>
> >>> A transformer is much closer to a guitar pickup impedancewise.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From ultrahype at compuserve.com  Sat Aug 25 23:41:15 2001
From: ultrahype at compuserve.com (ultrahype)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:41:15 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] parts ?
Message-ID: <001a01c12dae$abb65fe0$0100a8c0@mainsystem>

hi and thanks to everyone for all the help and advice so far 

real quick , recomendations for online parts  ic's transistors ect.?

sites that search by part number would be very helpful

thanks

Jim
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From tpaddock at seanet.com  Sun Aug 26 01:33:19 2001
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:33:19 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] ad633 fun, psu
Message-ID: <01C12D83.BADB8980@dialup-63.214.14.249.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net>

Could it be that the inputs aren't nulled out due to the 
unballanced +/- supplies?
If using the trimming circuit from the AD datasheet, it 
would trim over a small range halfway between the 
supplies (-2V).
If the input signals (like X+ and Y+) are referenced to 
ground and "trim" (like x- and Y-) are at -2V, then 
that could be the problem.
If there is only one input signal, does it go through?

(Just guessing, and I don't have any datasheets.)

 - -- -  Toby Paddock


>so, having recieved my ad633's, I decided to use them. using the fatman's
>+8/-12 power, the output sounds much more like the two inputs summed, than
>multiplied. I've tried both the simple ad633 circuits floating around, and
>opamp gain stages fr the inputs. Anybody?




From synthusiast at gmx.net  Sun Aug 26 01:34:57 2001
From: synthusiast at gmx.net (Synthusiast)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:34:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Experimental MIDI controllers & instruments
Message-ID: <001d01c12dbe$90afc8c0$0100000a@M>

Hi list,

Yesterday I visited the 'Uitmarkt' in Amsterdam and at the end of the show
there was a performance of Eboman, a very talented and famous (at least here
in Holland ;) audio/video sample wizard. He was only using a couple of
laptops and interactively changed the audio and video fragments by moving
his right arm on which he had connected a set of controllers. Though the
controllers seemed to have some latency problems, it was an interesting show
to hear and watch. Here's a link to Eboman's SamplemadnesS site:
http://www.eboman.com

The results of a Google-search showed that Eboman uses the socalled
Image/ine software from STEIM, together with a custom set of controllers (I
guess they're based on STEIM's SensorLab). STEIM is a "center of R&D of
instruments & tools for performers in the electronic performance arts",
located in Holland. You can read more about the STEIM organization at their
website: http://www.steim.nl

Sounds all very yummy to me :-)

Cheers,
Martijn



From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Aug 26 04:48:34 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:48:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] parts ?
References: <001a01c12dae$abb65fe0$0100a8c0@mainsystem>
Message-ID: <3B886382.15FE9AC8@silcom.com>

    The two places I get most of my parts (this is in the US of course):

    http://www.mouser.com
    http://www.digikey.com

    and I have also used:

    http://www.future-active.com
    http://www.newark.com


ultrahype wrote:

>    Part 1.1    Type: Plain Text (text/plain)
>            Encoding: quoted-printable

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Aug 26 05:01:31 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:01:31 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
References: <B7AD2B76.22B21%grichter@asapnet.net> <3B8807D4.C4B47A3C@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3B88668A.40DA87DD@prodigy.net>

LOL....

MY horror story was a guy who had a 'preamp' in his guitar... that always got
radio stations. Well the design was all wrong (so wrong I don't even remember
quite how wrong... like an opamp on a single supply with no bias at all....)

I fixed it... good sound... no radio....  and he bitched that it didn't sound the same.

Maybe I should have installed a big cap... maybe 500uF at 20KV....   ;^P

H^) harry

patchell wrote:

>     This reminds me of one of the worst experiences of my life.  I used to repair
> music gear.  I recieved a Fender Guitar amp that was broken to fix.  It had several
> problems, all of them pretty minor.  One of the things I noticed while fixing it
> was that the 1/4 inch jack on the input was pretty badly corroded.  I replaced it
> with a nice new shiny switchcraft jack.  The whole thing worked great when I was
> done.  The mf refused to pay!  Why?  Because I destroyed the sound of his
> amp...seems he would put the jack from his guitar in just so, and it would sound
> "real cool".  Not any more....this is one of the reasons I won't repair anything
> for anybody anymore.
>
> Grant Richter wrote:
>
> > OK, I stand corrected. It is after all, the end result that counts.
> >
> > I knew a guitar player named Pedar Hedman who played under the name of "Lord
> > Fuzzy". He would take his guitar cords, chop them to pieces and splice them
> > back together with masking tape. When I asked him why he did that, he
> > replied "Because it sounds fuzzier that way". And it did.
> >
> > Believe me, I have no wish to rain on any ones parade ;^)
> >
> > > From: "Happy Harry" <paia2720 at hotmail.com>
> > > Reply-To: harrybissell at prodigy.net
> > > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:32 +0000
> > > To: grichter at asapnet.net, owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl, debus at cityweb.de
> > > Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
> > >
> > > Not Fair (completely)
> > >
> > > If I'm building a fuzzbox (for instance) I could use a very low
> > > input impedance. When its off I can use the bypass switch to
> > > disconnect it...
> > >
> > > So in that case I can "abuse" what would be the normal guitar
> > > loading, knowing that I will not notice after the fuzz stage.
> > >
> > > I'm doing this with a hex pickup... my loading is 1K ohm. It would
> > > probably kill all "fidelity" but I want fundamental anyway... harmonics
> > > would screw me up. With a 1K the NE5532 is a very happy
> > > preamp.
> > >
> > > There is a lot of strange interaction in pedals, and some of it
> > > is more like "features" than "bugs".  I have sometimes added buffer
> > > circuits to pedals, only to have users complain that they don't sound
> > > 'right' anymore.
> > >
> > > Like those SICK PUPPIES who actually LIKE the sound of BBDs... you
> > > KNOW who YOU are !!!
> > >
> > > H^) harry
> > >
> > > PS: Guitar pickups these days have a very BROAD spectrum of impedance
> > > ranges.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
> > >> Reply-To: grichter at asapnet.net
> > >> To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>, <debus at cityweb.de>
> > >> CC: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > >> Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp?
> > >> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:10:15 -0500
> > >>
> > >> It is a rather poor design that is dependent on the source. Any halfway
> > >> decent design will have a buffer at the input to prevent loading on the
> > >> source. Also to prevent circuit action from being dependent on the source,
> > >> otherwise the device will behave differently with every guitar.
> > >>
> > >> But these ARE guitar pedals we are talking about, and I have seen some
> > >> designs that are completely laughable. They may have been profitable to
> > >> sell, but they are still crap designs. There is just not that much you can
> > >> do with one transistor and a 9 volt battery.
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> If the fx box needs a high source impedance, why not put just a
> > >>> resistor in series with the input?
> > >>>
> > >>> A transformer is much closer to a guitar pickup impedancewise.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------



From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Sun Aug 26 05:02:17 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 05:02:17 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
Message-ID: <l03110703b7ae0e072f17@[213.84.92.34]>

Hello,

I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and +12 volts.
The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.
The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.

The powersupply consists of a 230 volt to 2x 15 volt transformer.
It puts out 2x 18volts AC. *
The circuit has 2 diode rings (bridge cell in english?), 2 elcos 1000?F,
4 104 caps, a L7812CV and a L7912ACV for + and - voltage regulators

What has gone wrong?
- Was my 7912 off when I bought it?
- did I make a wrong connection that causes it to shift? (I checked and
rechecked, but who knows...) The 7912 connects differently from its
positive brother: 1=left=ground, 2=middle=in, 3=right=out.
- Has my over-enthousiastic trafo just fried my 7912?
- Is 18 volts to much for a 7912? I couldn't tell from the data sheet.
(which is here: http://www.st.com/stonline/campaign/gold/linear/stpos.htm )


Thanks a lot in advance for the responses.


Dave




* Why the hack can't they make stuff like trafos that behave
according to the given specs? (or boxes that say what the inside will do)

Pierce: War is hack.

----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
-------------------------------------- >^v< -----




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Aug 26 05:16:48 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:16:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert
Message-ID: <3B886A20.D756C7E@prodigy.net>

www.mpja.com  (Marlin P. Jones) has part #12976PS

a +/-12VDC 1A linear power supply or +/-15VDC 800mA supply
(you adjust as you like)

100,120,220,240 VAC input (can you say 'global ready'?)

for $18.95

Newbies this is your big chance. Get it now !  This will support a
pretty decent
size modular with nice clean regulated power.  I'd buy one myself but I
have
a few already.  This is the first re-appearance of this supply in a
couple of months
so don't wait too long.

I'm not affiliated with MPJA in any way ;^P
(just hate to see you guys work too hard....)



From jlarryh at iquest.net  Sun Aug 26 05:40:38 2001
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:40:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert
References: <3B886A20.D756C7E@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <006a01c12de0$dfef2300$cb352bd1@oemcomputer>

Try 12796PS
L.H.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
www.mpja.com  (Marlin P. Jones) has part #12976PS

a +/-12VDC 1A linear power supply or +/-15VDC 800mA supply
(you adjust as you like)

100,120,220,240 VAC input (can you say 'global ready'?)

for $18.95

Newbies this is your big chance. Get it now !  This will support a
pretty decent
size modular with nice clean regulated power.  I'd buy one myself but I
have
a few already.  This is the first re-appearance of this supply in a
couple of months
so don't wait too long.

I'm not affiliated with MPJA in any way ;^P
(just hate to see you guys work too hard....)





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Aug 26 06:15:14 2001
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:15:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
References: <l03110703b7ae0e072f17@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <3B8877D0.D75D5B6A@prodigy.net>

Hi Dave: inline

Dave Krooshof wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and +12 volts.
> The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.
> The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.
>
> The powersupply consists of a 230 volt to 2x 15 volt transformer.
> It puts out 2x 18volts AC. *
> The circuit has 2 diode rings (bridge cell in english?),

two diode rings ?   (two full wave bridges i.e. 8 diodes ?)
That isn't right. You should only need one bridge ... the center tap
of the transformer goes to DC common. the positive output of the bridge
is the positive (raw) supply. The negative is the negative....

> 2 elcos 1000?F,
> 4 104 caps, a L7812CV and a L7912ACV for + and - voltage regulators
>
> What has gone wrong?
> - Was my 7912 off when I bought it?
> - did I make a wrong connection that causes it to shift? (I checked and
> rechecked, but who knows...) The 7912 connects differently from its
> positive brother: 1=left=ground, 2=middle=in, 3=right=out.
> - Has my over-enthousiastic trafo just fried my 7912?

probably not.

> - Is 18 volts to much for a 7912? I couldn't tell from the data sheet.
> (which is here: http://www.st.com/stonline/campaign/gold/linear/stpos.htm )

no... up to 35V is OK. I think its a problem with the two bridges myself.  If
you
used two bridges you might use two positive regulators.... then thie them in
series.

H^) harry

>
>
> Thanks a lot in advance for the responses.
>
> Dave
>
> * Why the hack can't they make stuff like trafos that behave
> according to the given specs? (or boxes that say what the inside will do)
>
> Pierce: War is hack.
>
> ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
> Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
> geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
> webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
> -------------------------------------- >^v< -----



From jhaible at t-online.de  Sun Aug 26 08:28:33 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:28:33 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
References: <l03110703b7ae0e072f17@[213.84.92.34]> <3B8877D0.D75D5B6A@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <001e01c12df8$574eb5c0$4c7be03e@debitel.net>

Nothing wrong with two bridges.
Description sounds like missing minimal load to me. (If there is
no blatant circuit error.)
Connect two 1k resistors from +12V to GND and from GND to -12V
and see if voltages will be right then.

JH.

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
An: Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. August 2001 06:15
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts


> Hi Dave: inline
>
> Dave Krooshof wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and +12 volts.
> > The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.
> > The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.
> >
> > The powersupply consists of a 230 volt to 2x 15 volt transformer.
> > It puts out 2x 18volts AC. *
> > The circuit has 2 diode rings (bridge cell in english?),
>
> two diode rings ?   (two full wave bridges i.e. 8 diodes ?)
> That isn't right. You should only need one bridge ... the center tap
> of the transformer goes to DC common. the positive output of the bridge
> is the positive (raw) supply. The negative is the negative....
>
> > 2 elcos 1000?F,
> > 4 104 caps, a L7812CV and a L7912ACV for + and - voltage regulators
> >
> > What has gone wrong?
> > - Was my 7912 off when I bought it?
> > - did I make a wrong connection that causes it to shift? (I checked and
> > rechecked, but who knows...) The 7912 connects differently from its
> > positive brother: 1=left=ground, 2=middle=in, 3=right=out.
> > - Has my over-enthousiastic trafo just fried my 7912?
>
> probably not.
>
> > - Is 18 volts to much for a 7912? I couldn't tell from the data sheet.
> > (which is here:
http://www.st.com/stonline/campaign/gold/linear/stpos.htm )
>
> no... up to 35V is OK. I think its a problem with the two bridges myself.
If
> you
> used two bridges you might use two positive regulators.... then thie them
in
> series.
>
> H^) harry
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks a lot in advance for the responses.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > * Why the hack can't they make stuff like trafos that behave
> > according to the given specs? (or boxes that say what the inside will
do)
> >
> > Pierce: War is hack.
> >
> > ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
> > Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
> > geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
> > webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
> > -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
>




From jhaible at t-online.de  Sun Aug 26 13:30:30 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:30:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] data sheets for MD7002 and BFX79 ?
Message-ID: <003401c12e22$a4447480$547ae03e@debitel.net>

Hi,

I found some of these dual transistors in a drawer: MD7002 and BFX79

Does anybody happen to hava a data sheet for these ?

Thanks,

JH.




From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Sun Aug 26 14:56:45 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:56:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] data sheets for MD7002 and BFX79 ?
In-Reply-To: <003401c12e22$a4447480$547ae03e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <l03110703b7ae9f318419@[213.84.92.34]>

>Hi,
>
>I found some of these dual transistors in a drawer: MD7002 and BFX79
>
>Does anybody happen to hava a data sheet for these ?

not exactly a data sheet, but it might help...

BFX79
1253	BFX79	Silicon Dual Differential Amplifier Transistors	TO78
	NPN/PNP	0
http://www.semelab.co.uk/products/TO77_TO78_TO79_products.shtml

MD7002
1845	MD7002 (SD7002)	Silicon Dual Differential Amplifier Transistors
	TO78	NPN	0
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:eQLk99N1Zhk:www.powerchips.be/POWER1.pdf+MD
7002&hl=nl&lr=lang_nl|lang_en|lang_de
Same as pdf:
http://www.powerchips.be/POWER1.pdf (looks like an advertising)


irrelevant link to MD7002 but funny (to me, expecting data):
http://www.shoreconferencefootball.com/2001%20All%20Shore%20Classic/MonmouthDay7
ForWeb/pages/MD7002.htm


Does anyone have a decent pdf reader for the mac? Acrobat reader is such an
irritating device.
Doesn't even know how to scroll. I do not print, I want to read from screen.


Dave

----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
-------------------------------------- >^v< -----




From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Sun Aug 26 14:57:13 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:57:13 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
Message-ID: <l03110704b7aea2a15316@[213.84.92.34]>

>Nothing wrong with two bridges.
>Description sounds like missing minimal load to me. (If there is
>no blatant circuit error.)
>Connect two 1k resistors from +12V to GND and from GND to -12V
>and see if voltages will be right then.

>Dear Dave,
>the l7912 regulator needs to have a small load on it to work correctly ,
>the +v version 7812 doesn't seem to !
>so I think if you put a small load [ 1k res ? ]across each output to
>ground that should work.

that's it.
I left the circuit alone for a night, for regain a clear eye.
I had a 10K load to measure, yesterday.
Checked serveral resistors, the minimum load for the 7912
is in the 7K region, as the voltage starts dropping down from 16 volts.
At 5K it's 12 volt.

I=V/R
12/7K=1.7mA
I guess it's safe to leave the resistor in there. Then I know
the load is already on it's minimum. There's -14 volt over this end now.


As far as the two bridges are concerned, It might be a waste of bridges,
but  IMHO it doesn't matter to much conceptually, where in the circuit
two of the four outs are connected to get a zero.
And since the 7812 is behaving a lot better loadwise, Harry's solution
is going to be in my next power supply:
>If you used two bridges you might use two positive regulators....
>then thie them in series.


Thanks guys, I'm happy to know I can count on debugging advice here.

----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
-------------------------------------- >^v< -----




From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug 26 17:00:10 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:00:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
Message-ID: <E15b1RR-000F3D-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net>

Hi all,

does anyone here have any experience with the SSM2017P audo preamplifier
chip? (claims to be a state of the art, 1 external resistor job). I was
thinking of using one as a mic pre (or part of). Any thoughts?

Also, how much can i expect to pay for a reasonable audio isolation
transformer (to go between mic phantom power and mic pre, as opposed to the
four zener diode solutions) ?

thanks all

Seb Carr


From c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz  Sun Aug 26 18:11:28 2001
From: c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz (clowndog)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 04:11:28 +1200
Subject: [sdiy] s/pdif interface
References: <l03110703b7ae0e072f17@[213.84.92.34]> <3B8877D0.D75D5B6A@prodigy.net> <001e01c12df8$574eb5c0$4c7be03e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <00cd01c12e49$c36e7190$a54fb4ca@clowndog>

here is an interesting URL for those that are interested in making a s/pdif
interface

http://www.algonet.se/~cyrano/unispdif.html



From thescum at surfree.com  Sun Aug 26 19:06:57 2001
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:06:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010826170657.009aeb30@smtp.surfree.com>

>does anyone here have any experience with the SSM2017P audo preamplifier
>chip? (claims to be a state of the art, 1 external resistor job). I was
>thinking of using one as a mic pre (or part of). Any thoughts?

A quick search at groups.google.com tells me:

>--It amazes me how many of the preamps I've seen in
>the past few years that are all based on the SSM 2017 IC:
>the above-mentioned dbx, the Symetrix 302, the Event EMP-1,
>the little single-channel Rane, the PreSonus "Blue Tube" and
>even the JoeMeek VC 3 (at least in its original version) all use
>this amplifier IC.  And I know I'm forgetting a few others.

You won't exactly be in shabby company there.

If you're into using a few more components, then you might look into using
some video-grade high speed opamps.  Heck, if you've got the
"infrastructure" together (case, power supply, connectors, etc), then look
into the Audio Upgrades add-in mic pre at audioupgrades.com.

>Also, how much can i expect to pay for a reasonable audio isolation
>transformer (to go between mic phantom power and mic pre, as opposed to the
>four zener diode solutions) ?

You'll need to define "reasonable" for yourself.  I've used some $3
transformers from Mouser, and they were as good as any of the other mediocre
components I was experimenting with.  If you want the "official" high grade
solution, head over to www.jensentransformers.com.  They also offer a lot of
interesting schematics & whitepapers.  A mic-input transformer should run
you about $75.

Byron Jacquot



From jhaible at t-online.de  Sun Aug 26 19:24:37 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:24:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] data sheets for MD7002 and BFX79 ?
References: <l03110703b7ae9f318419@[213.84.92.34]>
Message-ID: <000801c12e65$08681ce0$b0f59e3e@debitel.net>

> not exactly a data sheet, but it might help...

Thanks. But I am mainly after specs like maximum offset voltage
(in diff amp mode).

JH.





From jhaible at t-online.de  Sun Aug 26 19:37:21 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:37:21 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
References: <E15b1RR-000F3D-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <000901c12e65$09285fa0$b0f59e3e@debitel.net>

> does anyone here have any experience with the SSM2017P audo preamplifier
> chip? (claims to be a state of the art, 1 external resistor job). I was
> thinking of using one as a mic pre (or part of). Any thoughts?

It's a good, low noise preamp. I used it in the Frequency Shifter and in the
HiFli Clone. I think AD has cancelled the SSM2017P (surprised ? not really,
although this must have been the best selling SSM part of all times.)

> Also, how much can i expect to pay for a reasonable audio isolation
> transformer (to go between mic phantom power and mic pre, as opposed to
the
> four zener diode solutions) ?

If you go for an input transformer (good decision !), you don't really need
a
special chip like the 2017. I plan to build a little discrete preamp some
time.
There are these Neve circuits, and the 30dB amp that is part of the Urei
1176
compressor (recently cloned) would make a good building block for
a preamp, too. Transformer will also help to smooth things on overload
(better than the 2017, I bet).

Speaking of transformers: Does anybody make a transformer with 10k
output impedance, and with 600R *and* 10k input impedance ?
I thought that should be the optimum for a combined Mic / Line input,
but I haven't found one like this.

JH.




From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Aug 26 18:12:52 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:12:52
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
Message-ID: <200108270114.f7R1Et709734@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net>

This has not been my experience.  I have many in operation
and they are all within factory spec. for years.  I have
6 in two FatMan synths and another 4 in mods for one of them.
I have another 10 or more in various other things.

"Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>People have said, on the EFM list, that 78xx and 79xx series voltage 
>regulators just plain suck.  I've used 7815 and 7915 regulators in a power 
>supply from a Paia kit.  I built the thing exactly right and it puts out 
>something more like a +/- approx 18v (+/- .5v error).  Whats really strange 
>is that when I FIRST built it it put out close to 15v pos and negative.  It 
>has "drifted" over time and is close to 18 volts top and bottom.  I always 
>just assumed that this was anticipated in these types of regulators.
>
>         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>
>
>
>
>>From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
>>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:16:29 +1000 (EST)
>>
>> >Nothing wrong with two bridges.
>> >Description sounds like missing minimal load to me. (If there is
>> >no blatant circuit error.)
>> >Connect two 1k resistors from +12V to GND and from GND to -12V
>> >and see if voltages will be right then.
>> >
>> >JH.
>> >
>> >-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> >Von: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>> >An: Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl>
>> >Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> >Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. August 2001 06:15
>> >Betreff: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi Dave: inline
>> >>
>> >> Dave Krooshof wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> >
>> >> > I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and +12 
>>volts.
>> >> > The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.
>> >> > The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.
>> >> >
>> >> > The powersupply consists of a 230 volt to 2x 15 volt transformer.
>> >> > It puts out 2x 18volts AC. *
>> >> > The circuit has 2 diode rings (bridge cell in english?),
>> >>
>> >> two diode rings ?   (two full wave bridges i.e. 8 diodes ?)
>> >> That isn't right. You should only need one bridge ... the center tap
>> >> of the transformer goes to DC common. the positive output of the bridge
>> >> is the positive (raw) supply. The negative is the negative....
>> >>
>> >> > 2 elcos 1000?F,
>> >> > 4 104 caps, a L7812CV and a L7912ACV for + and - voltage regulators
>> >> >
>> >> > What has gone wrong?
>> >> > - Was my 7912 off when I bought it?
>> >> > - did I make a wrong connection that causes it to shift? (I checked 
>>and
>> >> > rechecked, but who knows...) The 7912 connects differently from its
>> >> > positive brother: 1=left=ground, 2=middle=in, 3=right=out.
>> >> > - Has my over-enthousiastic trafo just fried my 7912?
>> >>
>> >> probably not.
>> >>
>> >> > - Is 18 volts to much for a 7912? I couldn't tell from the data 
>>sheet.
>> >> > (which is here:
>> >http://www.st.com/stonline/campaign/gold/linear/stpos.htm )
>> >>
>> >> no... up to 35V is OK. I think its a problem with the two bridges 
>>myself.
>> >If
>> >> you
>> >> used two bridges you might use two positive regulators.... then thie 
>>them
>> >in
>> >> series.
>> >>
>> >> H^) harry
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks a lot in advance for the responses.
>> >> >
>> >> > Dave
>> >> >
>> >> > * Why the hack can't they make stuff like trafos that behave
>> >> > according to the given specs? (or boxes that say what the inside will
>> >do)
>> >> >
>> >> > Pierce: War is hack.
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
>> >> > Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
>> >> > geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
>> >> > webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
>> >> > -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>_______________________________________________________________________
>>Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au
>>Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
>>Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
>>Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From gur_mil at mail.netvision.net.il  Sun Aug 26 21:58:42 2001
From: gur_mil at mail.netvision.net.il (Gur Milstein)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:58:42 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] EFM sequencer
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010826215842.006c2e5c@mail.netvision.net.il>

Hi Guy's
can any one point me to the web page which contain the final version schem
of seq2 ?

thanx
Gur Milstein



From denshiblocks at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 26 22:41:22 2001
From: denshiblocks at yahoo.com (denshi)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:41:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] jim mothersbaugh devo drums
In-Reply-To: <00cd01c12e49$c36e7190$a54fb4ca@clowndog>
Message-ID: <20010826204122.62941.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>

this is my first post, so im not sure if its really on
topic, but im very interested in any information about
the electronic drum kit that jim mothersbaugh made for
use in early devo recordings and shows.  i absolutly
love the sound of those drums and would like to make a
set if possible.  does anyone know how to contact jim
at roland?  thanks

denshi

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sun Aug 26 23:34:12 2001
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:34:12 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] jim mothersbaugh devo drums
Message-ID: <10d.4cb6c02.28bac554@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/26/01 1:56:28 PM, denshiblocks at yahoo.com writes:

<< does anyone know how to contact jim
at roland? >>

Jim Mothersbaugh hasn't worked at Roland since around 1988.  I don't know 
where he is these days.


From alex at xatomic.ch  Sun Aug 26 23:55:41 2001
From: alex at xatomic.ch (Alex)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:55:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard resources
Message-ID: <000201c12e79$d9423580$2201a8c0@artist>

Hi all,


probably this has been asked a few times before,
but I need a new keyboard (about 3 octaves), 2 contacts per key for a 
synth project.
Ideally would be a source in Europe. 
I don't want a used one salvaged from an old synth or so. 
It should be a new one. Could anybody name me some companies?

Thanks for any help,

Alex 




From sasami at blaze.net.au  Mon Aug 27 01:16:29 2001
From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:16:29 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
Message-ID: <200108262316.f7QNGE430898@blaze.net.au>

If two bridges are used incorrectly, a short circuit will result through one
of the diodes in the bridge. I've seen transformers cooked by this.
Overvoltage would not be the expected result.

Ken

>Nothing wrong with two bridges.
>Description sounds like missing minimal load to me. (If there is
>no blatant circuit error.)
>Connect two 1k resistors from +12V to GND and from GND to -12V
>and see if voltages will be right then.
>
>JH.
>
>-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>An: Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl>
>Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. August 2001 06:15
>Betreff: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
>
>
>> Hi Dave: inline
>>
>> Dave Krooshof wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and +12 volts.
>> > The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.
>> > The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.
>> >
>> > The powersupply consists of a 230 volt to 2x 15 volt transformer.
>> > It puts out 2x 18volts AC. *
>> > The circuit has 2 diode rings (bridge cell in english?),
>>
>> two diode rings ?   (two full wave bridges i.e. 8 diodes ?)
>> That isn't right. You should only need one bridge ... the center tap
>> of the transformer goes to DC common. the positive output of the bridge
>> is the positive (raw) supply. The negative is the negative....
>>
>> > 2 elcos 1000?F,
>> > 4 104 caps, a L7812CV and a L7912ACV for + and - voltage regulators
>> >
>> > What has gone wrong?
>> > - Was my 7912 off when I bought it?
>> > - did I make a wrong connection that causes it to shift? (I checked and
>> > rechecked, but who knows...) The 7912 connects differently from its
>> > positive brother: 1=left=ground, 2=middle=in, 3=right=out.
>> > - Has my over-enthousiastic trafo just fried my 7912?
>>
>> probably not.
>>
>> > - Is 18 volts to much for a 7912? I couldn't tell from the data sheet.
>> > (which is here:
>http://www.st.com/stonline/campaign/gold/linear/stpos.htm )
>>
>> no... up to 35V is OK. I think its a problem with the two bridges myself.
>If
>> you
>> used two bridges you might use two positive regulators.... then thie them
>in
>> series.
>>
>> H^) harry
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks a lot in advance for the responses.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > * Why the hack can't they make stuff like trafos that behave
>> > according to the given specs? (or boxes that say what the inside will
>do)
>> >
>> > Pierce: War is hack.
>> >
>> > ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
>> > Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
>> > geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
>> > webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
>> > -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
>>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From kkw at vaxxine.com  Mon Aug 27 02:28:45 2001
From: kkw at vaxxine.com (Kevin & Kim Wiley)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:28:45 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] (sdiy) 76477
Message-ID: <00b101c12e8f$8e2b7be0$b6d705d1@vaxxine.com>

I have a plan for building a Sound Effects Generator  based on the 76477 chip that allows many sounds to be made from dog barks to train sounds. The circuit was published in An Electronics mag 15 years ago or so. The chip is not useful for serious synth work since it does not adhear to the typical volt/octave set up. You would have to design a custom resistor /key for it. Sound effects are what its good at and it would make a great side module to a mudular setup. I could set anyone a photo copy.
Kevin


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From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 27 02:46:34 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:46:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
Message-ID: <F1546WY9IuXZ2y2Fko800012d02@hotmail.com>

People have said, on the EFM list, that 78xx and 79xx series voltage 
regulators just plain suck.  I've used 7815 and 7915 regulators in a power 
supply from a Paia kit.  I built the thing exactly right and it puts out 
something more like a +/- approx 18v (+/- .5v error).  Whats really strange 
is that when I FIRST built it it put out close to 15v pos and negative.  It 
has "drifted" over time and is close to 18 volts top and bottom.  I always 
just assumed that this was anticipated in these types of regulators.

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:16:29 +1000 (EST)
>
> >Nothing wrong with two bridges.
> >Description sounds like missing minimal load to me. (If there is
> >no blatant circuit error.)
> >Connect two 1k resistors from +12V to GND and from GND to -12V
> >and see if voltages will be right then.
> >
> >JH.
> >
> >-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> >Von: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> >An: Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl>
> >Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. August 2001 06:15
> >Betreff: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
> >
> >
> >> Hi Dave: inline
> >>
> >> Dave Krooshof wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and +12 
>volts.
> >> > The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.
> >> > The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.
> >> >
> >> > The powersupply consists of a 230 volt to 2x 15 volt transformer.
> >> > It puts out 2x 18volts AC. *
> >> > The circuit has 2 diode rings (bridge cell in english?),
> >>
> >> two diode rings ?   (two full wave bridges i.e. 8 diodes ?)
> >> That isn't right. You should only need one bridge ... the center tap
> >> of the transformer goes to DC common. the positive output of the bridge
> >> is the positive (raw) supply. The negative is the negative....
> >>
> >> > 2 elcos 1000?F,
> >> > 4 104 caps, a L7812CV and a L7912ACV for + and - voltage regulators
> >> >
> >> > What has gone wrong?
> >> > - Was my 7912 off when I bought it?
> >> > - did I make a wrong connection that causes it to shift? (I checked 
>and
> >> > rechecked, but who knows...) The 7912 connects differently from its
> >> > positive brother: 1=left=ground, 2=middle=in, 3=right=out.
> >> > - Has my over-enthousiastic trafo just fried my 7912?
> >>
> >> probably not.
> >>
> >> > - Is 18 volts to much for a 7912? I couldn't tell from the data 
>sheet.
> >> > (which is here:
> >http://www.st.com/stonline/campaign/gold/linear/stpos.htm )
> >>
> >> no... up to 35V is OK. I think its a problem with the two bridges 
>myself.
> >If
> >> you
> >> used two bridges you might use two positive regulators.... then thie 
>them
> >in
> >> series.
> >>
> >> H^) harry
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Thanks a lot in advance for the responses.
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> >
> >> > * Why the hack can't they make stuff like trafos that behave
> >> > according to the given specs? (or boxes that say what the inside will
> >do)
> >> >
> >> > Pierce: War is hack.
> >> >
> >> > ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
> >> > Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
> >> > geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
> >> > webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
> >> > -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au
>Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
>Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
>Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon Aug 27 03:02:51 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:02:51 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010827010251.00869ed8@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 08:46 PM 26/08/01 -0400, "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk wrote:
>People have said, on the EFM list, that 78xx and 79xx series voltage 
>regulators just plain suck.  

Hmmmmmmm.... I've used hundreds (possibly over a thousand) of these
and I NEVER had a problem. Output always within 0.5 volts of what it
should be. From quite a mix of vendors too.
People could do worse than read the National Semiconductor data sheets 
and applicatoion notes. And pay attention to layout.

paul perry (Frostwave analog fx) Melbourne Australia



From cyborgzero at home.com  Mon Aug 27 04:15:18 2001
From: cyborgzero at home.com (Rob B)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:15:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
References: <200108270114.f7R1Et709734@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <001501c12e9e$1f58ac60$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>

Could suspect bad/leaky caps perhaps...

App notes... Prolly a must to troubleshoot this type of thing too... Perhaps
the load is very capacitive? I wouldn't suspect this as a problem, but you
never know till you are knee deep..

Rob


aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts


> This has not been my experience.  I have many in operation
> and they are all within factory spec. for years.  I have
> 6 in two FatMan synths and another 4 in mods for one of them.
> I have another 10 or more in various other things.
>
> "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >People have said, on the EFM list, that 78xx and 79xx series voltage
> >regulators just plain suck.  I've used 7815 and 7915 regulators in a
power
> >supply from a Paia kit.  I built the thing exactly right and it puts out
> >something more like a +/- approx 18v (+/- .5v error).  Whats really
strange
> >is that when I FIRST built it it put out close to 15v pos and negative.
It
> >has "drifted" over time and is close to 18 volts top and bottom.  I
always
> >just assumed that this was anticipated in these types of regulators.
> >
> >         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
> >       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
> >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>Subject: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
> >>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:16:29 +1000 (EST)
> >>
> >> >Nothing wrong with two bridges.
> >> >Description sounds like missing minimal load to me. (If there is
> >> >no blatant circuit error.)
> >> >Connect two 1k resistors from +12V to GND and from GND to -12V
> >> >and see if voltages will be right then.
> >> >
> >> >JH.
> >> >
> >> >-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> >> >Von: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> >> >An: Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl>
> >> >Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >> >Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. August 2001 06:15
> >> >Betreff: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Dave: inline
> >> >>
> >> >> Dave Krooshof wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hello,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and +12
> >>volts.
> >> >> > The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.
> >> >> > The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The powersupply consists of a 230 volt to 2x 15 volt transformer.
> >> >> > It puts out 2x 18volts AC. *
> >> >> > The circuit has 2 diode rings (bridge cell in english?),
> >> >>
> >> >> two diode rings ?   (two full wave bridges i.e. 8 diodes ?)
> >> >> That isn't right. You should only need one bridge ... the center tap
> >> >> of the transformer goes to DC common. the positive output of the
bridge
> >> >> is the positive (raw) supply. The negative is the negative....
> >> >>
> >> >> > 2 elcos 1000?F,
> >> >> > 4 104 caps, a L7812CV and a L7912ACV for + and - voltage
regulators
> >> >> >
> >> >> > What has gone wrong?
> >> >> > - Was my 7912 off when I bought it?
> >> >> > - did I make a wrong connection that causes it to shift? (I
checked
> >>and
> >> >> > rechecked, but who knows...) The 7912 connects differently from
its
> >> >> > positive brother: 1=left=ground, 2=middle=in, 3=right=out.
> >> >> > - Has my over-enthousiastic trafo just fried my 7912?
> >> >>
> >> >> probably not.
> >> >>
> >> >> > - Is 18 volts to much for a 7912? I couldn't tell from the data
> >>sheet.
> >> >> > (which is here:
> >> >http://www.st.com/stonline/campaign/gold/linear/stpos.htm )
> >> >>
> >> >> no... up to 35V is OK. I think its a problem with the two bridges
> >>myself.
> >> >If
> >> >> you
> >> >> used two bridges you might use two positive regulators.... then thie
> >>them
> >> >in
> >> >> series.
> >> >>
> >> >> H^) harry
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks a lot in advance for the responses.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Dave
> >> >> >
> >> >> > * Why the hack can't they make stuff like trafos that behave
> >> >> > according to the given specs? (or boxes that say what the inside
will
> >> >do)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Pierce: War is hack.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
> >> >> > Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
> >> >> > geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
> >> >> > webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
> >> >> > -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>_______________________________________________________________________
> >>Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au
> >>Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
> >>Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
> >>Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
> >>
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>
>



From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Aug 27 04:39:07 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 04:39:07 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
References: <200108270114.f7R1Et709734@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net> <001501c12e9e$1f58ac60$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>
Message-ID: <016d01c12ea1$725574e0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

I remember having "fun" with helping debug a PSU over email.
Sure he checked the polarity of the big elcos a hundred times, nothing wrong
there.
It was a real mystery till it turned out he used tantalum types for the 100n
caps 8(

Theo



From: Rob B <cyborgzero at home.com>



> Could suspect bad/leaky caps perhaps...
>
> App notes... Prolly a must to troubleshoot this type of thing too...
Perhaps
> the load is very capacitive? I wouldn't suspect this as a problem, but you
> never know till you are knee deep..
>
> Rob
>
>
> aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
>
>
> > This has not been my experience.  I have many in operation
> > and they are all within factory spec. for years.  I have
> > 6 in two FatMan synths and another 4 in mods for one of them.
> > I have another 10 or more in various other things.
> >
> > "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >People have said, on the EFM list, that 78xx and 79xx series voltage
> > >regulators just plain suck.  I've used 7815 and 7915 regulators in a
> power
> > >supply from a Paia kit.  I built the thing exactly right and it puts
out
> > >something more like a +/- approx 18v (+/- .5v error).  Whats really
> strange
> > >is that when I FIRST built it it put out close to 15v pos and negative.
> It
> > >has "drifted" over time and is close to 18 volts top and bottom.  I
> always
> > >just assumed that this was anticipated in these types of regulators.
> > >
> > >         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
> > >       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
> > >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > >>Subject: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
> > >>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:16:29 +1000 (EST)
> > >>
> > >> >Nothing wrong with two bridges.
> > >> >Description sounds like missing minimal load to me. (If there is
> > >> >no blatant circuit error.)
> > >> >Connect two 1k resistors from +12V to GND and from GND to -12V
> > >> >and see if voltages will be right then.
> > >> >
> > >> >JH.
> > >> >
> > >> >-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> > >> >Von: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> > >> >An: Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl>
> > >> >Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > >> >Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. August 2001 06:15
> > >> >Betreff: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> Hi Dave: inline
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Dave Krooshof wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > Hello,
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and
+12
> > >>volts.
> > >> >> > The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.
> > >> >> > The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > The powersupply consists of a 230 volt to 2x 15 volt
transformer.
> > >> >> > It puts out 2x 18volts AC. *
> > >> >> > The circuit has 2 diode rings (bridge cell in english?),
> > >> >>
> > >> >> two diode rings ?   (two full wave bridges i.e. 8 diodes ?)
> > >> >> That isn't right. You should only need one bridge ... the center
tap
> > >> >> of the transformer goes to DC common. the positive output of the
> bridge
> > >> >> is the positive (raw) supply. The negative is the negative....
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > 2 elcos 1000?F,
> > >> >> > 4 104 caps, a L7812CV and a L7912ACV for + and - voltage
> regulators
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > What has gone wrong?
> > >> >> > - Was my 7912 off when I bought it?
> > >> >> > - did I make a wrong connection that causes it to shift? (I
> checked
> > >>and
> > >> >> > rechecked, but who knows...) The 7912 connects differently from
> its
> > >> >> > positive brother: 1=left=ground, 2=middle=in, 3=right=out.
> > >> >> > - Has my over-enthousiastic trafo just fried my 7912?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> probably not.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > - Is 18 volts to much for a 7912? I couldn't tell from the data
> > >>sheet.
> > >> >> > (which is here:
> > >> >http://www.st.com/stonline/campaign/gold/linear/stpos.htm )
> > >> >>
> > >> >> no... up to 35V is OK. I think its a problem with the two bridges
> > >>myself.
> > >> >If
> > >> >> you
> > >> >> used two bridges you might use two positive regulators.... then
thie
> > >>them
> > >> >in
> > >> >> series.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> H^) harry
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Thanks a lot in advance for the responses.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Dave
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > * Why the hack can't they make stuff like trafos that behave
> > >> >> > according to the given specs? (or boxes that say what the inside
> will
> > >> >do)
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Pierce: War is hack.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
> > >> >> > Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
> > >> >> > geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
> > >> >> > webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
> > >> >> > -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> >
>>_______________________________________________________________________
> > >>Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au
> > >>Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
> > >>Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
> > >>Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies
<http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
> > >
> >
> > =========================================================
> > - Government: The other religion.
> > - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> >
> > -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> > -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> > -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> > -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
> >
> >
>
>



From krooshof at xs4all.nl  Mon Aug 27 05:08:26 2001
From: krooshof at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 05:08:26 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
In-Reply-To: <001501c12e9e$1f58ac60$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>
References: <200108270114.f7R1Et709734@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <l03110701b7af6257f2fa@[213.84.92.34]>

__________Stability issues:____________
used a few dozen of 78xx's, still behave perfectly too.
They're so standard, Harry would complain monthly if they'd realy suck.

__________Wrong output voltage:___________
>> Could suspect bad/leaky caps perhaps...
>> App notes... Prolly a must to troubleshoot this type of thing too... Perhaps
>> the load is very capacitive? I wouldn't suspect this as a problem, but you
>> never know till you are knee deep..
>>
>> Rob
>
> I remember having "fun" with helping debug a PSU over email.
>Sure he checked the polarity of the big elcos a hundred times, nothing
>wrong there. It was a real mystery till it turned out he used tantalum
>types for the 100n caps 8(
>
>Theo
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One of the 104's on the bad side _does_ have a slightly different colour.
I'll see if I can find a oker (yellowish) replacement. I do not DIY enough
at home, but I started noticing the advantages of having a complete
collection of caps and resistors.


__________late night issue that'll disappear in daylight________

My next problem to get rid of is:
why is there 9 volts AC between my synth's ground
and my mixer's ground, even when the power is off
and the circuit is disconnected from the supply.
Older projects still work fine. ODD.
But I guess, to solve this one, a good night of sleep
will solve all, tomorrow I'll instantly notice what the problem is.

I disconnected my complete gear drom the mains today,
after a Shostakovich live concert on TV on which the rolling
of thunder was very audible :-)
Then the thunderstorm kicked the tv off air twice, my
mac's monitors were flikkering...
Now the earth of the televisioncable is some 20 volts AC
different from the mains earth. Hummmmmm....
Tomorrow I'll see on which planet I wake up, and what the
local current is.


Dave
(hummed out for today)

----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
-------------------------------------- >^v< -----




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Mon Aug 27 05:48:22 2001
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:48:22 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Re: L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
Message-ID: <105.870e21d.28bb1d06@aol.com>


In a message dated 8/26/01, Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl> writes:

<< I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and +12 volts.

The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.

The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.

.
.
.

What has gone wrong? >>

You have a bad regulator.  It happens.  Replace it.


From thescum at surfree.com  Mon Aug 27 06:10:28 2001
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 00:10:28 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard resources
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010827041028.009bfcf0@smtp.surfree.com>

>probably this has been asked a few times before,
>but I need a new keyboard (about 3 octaves), 2 contacts per key for a 
>synth project.
>Ideally would be a source in Europe. 
>I don't want a used one salvaged from an old synth or so. 
>It should be a new one. Could anybody name me some companies?

I think Fatar would fit the bill, but I don't know if they'll sell "bare"
key assemblies in small quantities.

If you can deal with ordering from the USA, All Electronics (allcorp.com)
appear to have some surplus stock from Alesis right now.

Byron Jacquot



From bigtex at cwnet.com  Mon Aug 27 07:46:40 2001
From: bigtex at cwnet.com (Tavys Ashcroft)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:46:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply Xfmrs
Message-ID: <v04220801b7af8e8441d5@[209.142.56.104]>

I just happened upon a large number (like 8 or so) power supply 
transformers.  They're nice Stancor ones with 120V primary and 28V 
center tapped secondaries.  My best bet with these would be a +/- 12V 
DC right?  I'd do about +/-14 volts and with the bridge and 
regulators I'd get safely down to 12V.  But I've heard that I should 
be a few volts above my regulators, so should I go down to 10V on the 
regulators to be safe?  I'm planning on using these for most of my 
future projects at least for a while since I've got a bunch of them 
and they were all free.  If it were +/-10V, would that be enough for 
a modular synth project?

-Tavys


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon Aug 27 08:08:31 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:08:31 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply Xfmrs
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010827060831.00861d20@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 10:46 PM 26/08/01 -0700, Tavys Ashcroft  wrote:
>I just happened upon a large number (like 8 or so) power supply 
>transformers.  They're nice Stancor ones with 120V primary and 28V 
>center tapped secondaries. 

You will have no trouble running 15v regs with these.
Because, 14v AC rectifies to a peak of over 19v.
So there is plenty of room for the regs.

paul perry melbourne australia



From don at till.com  Mon Aug 27 08:55:14 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:55:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply Xfmrs
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20010827060831.00861d20@popa.melbpc.org.au> (message
	from Paul Perry on Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:08:31 +1000)
Message-ID: <200108270655.XAA21932@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:08:31 +1000
   From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>

   At 10:46 PM 26/08/01 -0700, Tavys Ashcroft  wrote:
   >I just happened upon a large number (like 8 or so) power supply 
   >transformers.  They're nice Stancor ones with 120V primary and 28V 
   >center tapped secondaries. 

   You will have no trouble running 15v regs with these.
   Because, 14v AC rectifies to a peak of over 19v.
   So there is plenty of room for the regs.

What is the tolerance of the transformer's secondary voltage?
What if the ac line voltage is running low?
What about diode drop?
What about capacitor droop?

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Aug 27 07:13:00 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:13:00
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
Message-ID: <200108271417.f7REHZ727566@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net>

I thought about other threads on these parts... that you can
put a resistor between ground and the ground pin to raise the
regulation voltage.  So imagine a poor solder connection
(a resistive connection) between ground and the ground pin.
Voila, a resistor and then the regulator puts out too much
voltage.  Capacitance could cause startup and shutdown problems,
maybe stability issues, but not overvoltage (AFAIK).

"Rob B" <cyborgzero at home.com> wrote:
>Could suspect bad/leaky caps perhaps...
>
>App notes... Prolly a must to troubleshoot this type of thing too... Perhaps
>the load is very capacitive? I wouldn't suspect this as a problem, but you
>never know till you are knee deep..
>
>Rob
>
>
>aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 6:12 PM
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
>
>
>> This has not been my experience.  I have many in operation
>> and they are all within factory spec. for years.  I have
>> 6 in two FatMan synths and another 4 in mods for one of them.
>> I have another 10 or more in various other things.
>>
>> "Dr Strangelove" <phdinfunk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >People have said, on the EFM list, that 78xx and 79xx series voltage
>> >regulators just plain suck.  I've used 7815 and 7915 regulators in a
>power
>> >supply from a Paia kit.  I built the thing exactly right and it puts out
>> >something more like a +/- approx 18v (+/- .5v error).  Whats really
>strange
>> >is that when I FIRST built it it put out close to 15v pos and negative.
>It
>> >has "drifted" over time and is close to 18 volts top and bottom.  I
>always
>> >just assumed that this was anticipated in these types of regulators.
>> >
>> >         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
>> >       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
>> >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> >>Subject: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
>> >>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:16:29 +1000 (EST)
>> >>
>> >> >Nothing wrong with two bridges.
>> >> >Description sounds like missing minimal load to me. (If there is
>> >> >no blatant circuit error.)
>> >> >Connect two 1k resistors from +12V to GND and from GND to -12V
>> >> >and see if voltages will be right then.
>> >> >
>> >> >JH.
>> >> >
>> >> >-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> >> >Von: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>> >> >An: Dave Krooshof <krooshof at xs4all.nl>
>> >> >Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> >> >Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. August 2001 06:15
>> >> >Betreff: Re: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hi Dave: inline
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dave Krooshof wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Hello,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I just made a powersupply that is supposed to put out -12 and +12
>> >>volts.
>> >> >> > The + side is OK, it gives 12.1 volts.
>> >> >> > The - side is wrong, as it puts out 16.3 volts.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The powersupply consists of a 230 volt to 2x 15 volt transformer.
>> >> >> > It puts out 2x 18volts AC. *
>> >> >> > The circuit has 2 diode rings (bridge cell in english?),
>> >> >>
>> >> >> two diode rings ?   (two full wave bridges i.e. 8 diodes ?)
>> >> >> That isn't right. You should only need one bridge ... the center tap
>> >> >> of the transformer goes to DC common. the positive output of the
>bridge
>> >> >> is the positive (raw) supply. The negative is the negative....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > 2 elcos 1000?F,
>> >> >> > 4 104 caps, a L7812CV and a L7912ACV for + and - voltage
>regulators
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > What has gone wrong?
>> >> >> > - Was my 7912 off when I bought it?
>> >> >> > - did I make a wrong connection that causes it to shift? (I
>checked
>> >>and
>> >> >> > rechecked, but who knows...) The 7912 connects differently from
>its
>> >> >> > positive brother: 1=left=ground, 2=middle=in, 3=right=out.
>> >> >> > - Has my over-enthousiastic trafo just fried my 7912?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> probably not.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > - Is 18 volts to much for a 7912? I couldn't tell from the data
>> >>sheet.
>> >> >> > (which is here:
>> >> >http://www.st.com/stonline/campaign/gold/linear/stpos.htm )
>> >> >>
>> >> >> no... up to 35V is OK. I think its a problem with the two bridges
>> >>myself.
>> >> >If
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> used two bridges you might use two positive regulators.... then thie
>> >>them
>> >> >in
>> >> >> series.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> H^) harry
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks a lot in advance for the responses.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Dave
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > * Why the hack can't they make stuff like trafos that behave
>> >> >> > according to the given specs? (or boxes that say what the inside
>will
>> >> >do)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Pierce: War is hack.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- >^v< ---------------------------------------
>> >> >> > Dave Krooshof http://www.xs4all.nl/~krooshof
>> >> >> > geluidstechnicus @ http://www.ahk.nl/the
>> >> >> > webmaster: http://www.popronde.nl
>> >> >> > -------------------------------------- >^v< -----
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>_______________________________________________________________________
>> >>Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au
>> >>Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
>> >>Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
>> >>Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>> >
>> >
>>
>> =========================================================
>> - Government: The other religion.
>> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>>
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
>> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>>
>>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Mon Aug 27 10:05:10 2001
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:05:10 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp?
In-Reply-To: <20010824233128.74526.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.10.10108271058280.12960-100000@gamma.hut.fi>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Tim Escobedo wrote:

> The union between guitar and fuzzbox is a holy one, and any "buffer"
> between the two constitutes tampering with God's grand plan...

Amen brother...

Fuzzface input is common emitter amplifier with some feedback from
second stage without a base resistor, so the input impedance is very low
(kind of like running guitar pickup directly to inverting op-amp minus 
node without a resistor). This cuts out a lot of high-end which is
actually good in this case, as it removes a lot of harshness (less stuff
generating those overtones). According to Roger Mayer (who designed the
original fuzzface) this was intentional.

For a good description on fuzzface operation, go to
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/fuzzface/fffram.htm

Antti

"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding!
 How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat!?"
   - Roger Waters



From budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au  Mon Aug 27 11:24:09 2001
From: budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au (Benjamin M. Woenig)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:54:09 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard resources
References: <1.5.4.32.20010827041028.009bfcf0@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <004b01c12eda$0e979d50$0c00a8c0@budweiser>

I was looking for the keyboards you mentioned on allcorp.com, but couldn't
find anything, do you know which section they were under? (thats if they
are still listed)

~ben

> If you can deal with ordering from the USA, All Electronics (allcorp.com)
> appear to have some surplus stock from Alesis right now.
> 
> Byron Jacquot
> 



From mikko.a.helin at nokia.com  Mon Aug 27 11:36:10 2001
From: mikko.a.helin at nokia.com (mikko.a.helin at nokia.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:36:10 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
Message-ID: <0AA9E01B31168E42A308714A6EF271841E9C4F@trebe002.NOE.Nokia.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext jh. [mailto:jhaible at t-online.de]
> Sent: 26. August 2001 20:37
> To: Seb Carr; synth diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] SSM2017P
> 
> 
> > does anyone here have any experience with the SSM2017P audo 
> preamplifier
> > chip? (claims to be a state of the art, 1 external resistor 
> job). I was
> > thinking of using one as a mic pre (or part of). Any thoughts?
> 
> It's a good, low noise preamp. I used it in the Frequency 
> Shifter and in the
> HiFli Clone. I think AD has cancelled the SSM2017P (surprised 
> ? not really,
> although this must have been the best selling SSM part of all times.)
> 

THAT Corp. makes a pin-compatible substitute for the SSM2017P, THAT1510,
see http://www.thatcorp.com/1510desc.shtml

Seems they've even bettered the specs.

For mic pre I would like to try this circuit:

http://sound.westhost.com/project66.htm

Transformer input mic pre may though be best for recording some instruments
(analog synths and vocals). Jensen-Transformers
(http://www.jensen-transformers.com/) must be the most popular brand.

-Mikko



> > Also, how much can i expect to pay for a reasonable audio isolation
> > transformer (to go between mic phantom power and mic pre, 
> as opposed to
> the
> > four zener diode solutions) ?
> 
> If you go for an input transformer (good decision !), you 
> don't really need
> a
> special chip like the 2017. I plan to build a little discrete 
> preamp some
> time.
> There are these Neve circuits, and the 30dB amp that is part 
> of the Urei
> 1176
> compressor (recently cloned) would make a good building block for
> a preamp, too. Transformer will also help to smooth things on overload
> (better than the 2017, I bet).
> 
> Speaking of transformers: Does anybody make a transformer with 10k
> output impedance, and with 600R *and* 10k input impedance ?
> I thought that should be the optimum for a combined Mic / Line input,
> but I haven't found one like this.
> 
> JH.
> 
> 


From PMvN at gmx.net  Mon Aug 27 12:19:59 2001
From: PMvN at gmx.net (PMvN at gmx.net)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:19:59 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] TB3030 case
Message-ID: <19996.998907599@www16.gmx.net>

Hi! I've subscribed myself again after few years of 'no time'. Back then I'd
ordered the TB3030 PCB from Tony Allgood. I still haven't figured out if it
has any use to make a seq. ala original 303 to acompany the 3030 in a single
case. Friends have talked my into making a translucent case; silicium! Of
course if some part goes bad than I can throw away the whole 3030...

So my Q: Has anybody made a nice table top case for our TB3030? And/or seq.?

Regards,

Paul van Nugteren

-- 
Windows: Where do you want to go today?
Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
BeOS: Where do you want(ed) to Be tomorrow?

Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net



From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Mon Aug 27 12:26:45 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:26:45 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] reamp?
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF016@exchange1.intermetall.de>

> > The union between guitar and fuzzbox is a holy one, and any "buffer"
> > between the two constitutes tampering with God's grand plan...
 

... I went down (dadada) with a fuzzbox (dadada) ....

(ZZ-Top , Antenna)


Sorry, couldn't resist...

m.c.


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon Aug 27 13:50:25 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:50:25 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply Xfmrs
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010827115025.0085e414@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 11:55 PM 26/08/01 -0700, Don Tillman wrote:
>
>What is the tolerance of the transformer's secondary voltage?
>What if the ac line voltage is running low?
>What about diode drop?
>What about capacitor droop?
>
I knew someone would say this, but Don was first ;D
If *everything* that COULD go wrong did, you wouldn't
survive the average day. If everythig was running the other way,
you probably wouldn't have a high enough voltage rating on the 
filter caps. Or, the voltage drop across the regs would be so high that 
you would overheat them at max current.

i still say, given the 'average' 28v centrtap tranny, and half a dozen 
modules, all will be well. Most likely. Nobody can say more, for 
'unknown' transformers & unspecified load.

paul perry Melbourne Australia



From atom at suspicious.org  Mon Aug 27 14:27:47 2001
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:27:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] TB3030 case
In-Reply-To: <19996.998907599@www16.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0108270825220.23555-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

> So my Q: Has anybody made a nice table top case for our TB3030? And/or
seq.?
=======================================

does this count?
it's not the TB3030 kit, and it's not a clear case.....
		http://smasher.suspicious.org/303/


	...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation,
	 are men who want rain without thunder and lightning.  They want
	 the ocean without the roar of its many waters."
		-- Frederick Douglass




From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 27 14:59:30 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:59:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TB3030 case
Message-ID: <E15bM2E-0000sx-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net>


have a look at this one

http://www.oakleysound.com/gallery4.htm

tb3030 and sequencer in tabletop case-not transparent but the wood looks
nice.

Seb Carr
----------
>From: PMvN at gmx.net
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] TB3030 case
>Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001, 11:19 am
>

> Hi! I've subscribed myself again after few years of 'no time'. Back then I'd
> ordered the TB3030 PCB from Tony Allgood. I still haven't figured out if it
> has any use to make a seq. ala original 303 to acompany the 3030 in a single
> case. Friends have talked my into making a translucent case; silicium! Of
> course if some part goes bad than I can throw away the whole 3030...
>
> So my Q: Has anybody made a nice table top case for our TB3030? And/or seq.?
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul van Nugteren
>
> --
> Windows: Where do you want to go today?
> Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
> BeOS: Where do you want(ed) to Be tomorrow?
>
> Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net
> 


From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Mon Aug 27 16:36:52 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:36:52 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] A Cure for stupid Newbie questions?
Message-ID: <131.aea4b3.28bbb504@aol.com>

well, maybe,

I was an outlet mall this weekend which means I spent most of the time in the 
bookstores while the women shopped for clothes.

But I got a book called ' Penguin Dictionary of Electronics' for under six 
bucks.

it is edited by Valerie Illingworth, ISBN 0-14-051402-3.

it's got lots of formulas, diagrams and good explanations.  they even have 
midi in there, very audio friendly it seems.  although I can't seem to find 
Exponential converter in there(I have a few other books that do have it, this 
might make the language in them a bit more understandible.)

hey, I didn't know you could make a discrete BBD!

it's list price is $16.95 US.

Ed


From debus at cityweb.de  Mon Aug 27 16:38:01 2001
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:38:01 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ad633 fun, psu
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251010390.30757-100000@whipit.devo.com> <3B87ED55.216C8612@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <3B8A5B48.8F0A59F6@cityweb.de>



harry wrote:
> For a dual... use the same bridge rectifier and two capacitors. The common
> point
> of the capacitors is tied to the center lead of the transformers.  The
> positive and negative voltages will not be equal because the inputs are not
> equal. But it will work.

I think this won't work. The standard
center-tapped-transformer-plus-one-bridge-rectifier dual power supply
uses both transformer windings for each output. If the two windings have
different ac voltage the unfiltered output voltages will have lower and
higher half-waves. The higher half-waves come from the winding with the
higher voltage and the lower half-waves from the other winding. If a
filter cap large enough is used, this becomes simply a half-wave
rectification, and the winding with the lower voltage (and its diodes)
isn't used at all.

Ingo




From debus at cityweb.de  Mon Aug 27 17:09:26 2001
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:09:26 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
References: <E15b1RR-000F3D-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> <000901c12e65$09285fa0$b0f59e3e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <3B8A62A5.63BB2B94@cityweb.de>



"jh." wrote:
> 
> > does anyone here have any experience with the SSM2017P audo preamplifier
> > chip? (claims to be a state of the art, 1 external resistor job). I was
> > thinking of using one as a mic pre (or part of). Any thoughts?

I built six mic preamps with these, they work very well.

If you want pot-adjustable gain, you need a pot with reverse log taper.
This is perhaps not easy to get. I used normal log pots and mounted the
shaft from the back of the pot. This was quite fumbly (does this word
exist?), I wouldn't do it again this way. If you use a pot, don't forget
to put a capacitor (big, electrolytic) in series with it. It'll scratch
terribly otherwise.
Another option is a switch for gain.

> It's a good, low noise preamp. I used it in the Frequency Shifter and in the
> HiFli Clone. I think AD has cancelled the SSM2017P 

Huh, really?
But I think Burr-Brown/TI makes a very similar device.

> > Also, how much can i expect to pay for a reasonable audio isolation
> > transformer (to go between mic phantom power and mic pre, as opposed to
> the
> > four zener diode solutions) ?

What is the four zener diode solution?

One of my preamps has 12 V phantom supply. Many condensor mics today
work happily with 12 V instead of 48 V. Check the mic's data sheet.
IMHO when you just want to connect a microphone you don't need a
transformer. The 2017's specs (CMRR and noise) are so good without
transformer, there isn't much benefit.
Of course it's a different situation when you want to connect other gear
and need the isolation to avoid ground loops.

> Speaking of transformers: Does anybody make a transformer with 10k
> output impedance, and with 600R *and* 10k input impedance ?
> I thought that should be the optimum for a combined Mic / Line input,
> but I haven't found one like this.

600 ohms is a pretty low input impedance for a mic input, usually these
are in the several kOhms range.

Ingo



From mclilith at ezwv.com  Mon Aug 27 17:32:48 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:32:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard resources
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20010827041028.009bfcf0@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010827112045.00aab8c0@mail.ezwv.com>

At 12:10 AM 8/27/01 , Byron G. Jacquot wrote:

>I think Fatar would fit the bill, but I don't know if they'll sell "bare"
>key assemblies in small quantities.
>
>If you can deal with ordering from the USA, All Electronics (allcorp.com)
>appear to have some surplus stock from Alesis right now.

After searching through the All Electronics web site and not finding
anything, I called them on the phone. (Which is what I should have done
first.) 

They currently have some 88-key Fatar keyboard assemblies, but all of them
have at least some amount of damage or defective parts of some kind. These
are reject keyboards. The price per keyboard is about $20.00 and the
shipping is about $25.00 (US prices, and assuming US delivery). 

Because of the high shipping costs and the damaged nature of these units,
All Electronics has decided NOT to advertise these on their website, but
try to sell them through their local retail shop. They will ship them to
customers who want to pay the expense of shipping, but they decided not to
advertise them on the web site. So if you want one, give them a call at
1-800-826-5432, and verify the shipping costs and current availability.


Later,
Glen


From grichter at asapnet.net  Mon Aug 27 17:51:33 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:51:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] jim mothersbaugh devo drums
In-Reply-To: <20010826204122.62941.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B7AFD6B5.22B7A%grichter@asapnet.net>

Jim Mothersbaugh had a personal ad in the back of Electronotes #61

It reads "Wanted: circuits for electronic percussion, will pay"

The address was his parents house in Akron. Those were the days...

> From: denshi <denshiblocks at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:41:22 -0700 (PDT)
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] jim mothersbaugh devo drums
> 
> this is my first post, so im not sure if its really on
> topic, but im very interested in any information about
> the electronic drum kit that jim mothersbaugh made for
> use in early devo recordings and shows.  i absolutly
> love the sound of those drums and would like to make a
> set if possible.  does anyone know how to contact jim
> at roland?  thanks
> 
> denshi
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> 
> 




From thomas at roundhouse.se  Mon Aug 27 19:00:07 2001
From: thomas at roundhouse.se (Thomas Kahn)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:00:07 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert
In-Reply-To: <3B886A20.D756C7E@prodigy.net>
References: <3B886A20.D756C7E@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <v04220803b7b02c92530d@[213.112.172.133]>

Harry Bissel:
> www.mpja.com  (Marlin P. Jones) has part #12976PS
>
> a +/-12VDC 1A linear power supply or +/-15VDC 800mA supply
> (you adjust as you like)
>
> 100,120,220,240 VAC input (can you say 'global ready'?)
>
> for $18.95
>
> Newbies this is your big chance. Get it now !  This will support a
> pretty decent
> size modular with nice clean regulated power.  I'd buy one myself but I
> have
> a few already.  This is the first re-appearance of this supply in a
> couple of months
> so don't wait too long.
>
> I'm not affiliated with MPJA in any way ;^P
> (just hate to see you guys work too hard....)

Thanks!
I can't find it though. The only message I get from
their website is:

****

Part Number: 12976PS Not Found
---------------------------------------------------
The Part Number you entered is not a MPJA Stock No.
Please check the number and try again.

****

I guess they ran out of power supplies before I
got the chance to buy one. :-)

/Thomas
___________________________________
Thomas Kahn
Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
ICQ: 19705911
WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn


From don at till.com  Mon Aug 27 19:00:39 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply Xfmrs
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20010827115025.0085e414@popa.melbpc.org.au> (message
	from Paul Perry on Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:50:25 +1000)
Message-ID: <200108271700.KAA03336@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:50:25 +1000
   From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>

   I knew someone would say this, but Don was first ;D If *everything*
   that COULD go wrong did, you wouldn't survive the average day.

Hah, some days it's pretty tough!  :-)

   If everythig was running the other way, you probably wouldn't have
   a high enough voltage rating on the filter caps. Or, the voltage
   drop across the regs would be so high that you would overheat them
   at max current.

Ahh, but that's part of the joy of engineering!  (Or it's another good
reason to buy a commercially made power supply.)

   i still say, given the 'average' 28v centrtap tranny, and half a
   dozen modules, all will be well. Most likely. Nobody can say more,
   for 'unknown' transformers & unspecified load.

At the very least you want to be able to say what the limits of
performance are.  Especially if the power supply is for a musical
instrument that might be taken out gigging.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 27 19:17:34 2001
From: star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk (Seb Carr)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:17:34 +0100
Subject: FW: [sdiy] keyboard resources
Message-ID: <E15bQ42-000I56-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net>



----------
From: "Seb Carr" <star at all-carrs.demon.co.uk>
To: "Byron G. Jacquot" <thescum at surfree.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] keyboard resources
Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001, 2:21 pm


I just went to this site and wow-flying faders- they're my favourite
invention ever.Now, how hard is it to make a simple interface to make that
will make these do something useful- i know that is an extremely vague
question, but if they are okay to build interaces with then i will have to
get some.

thanks

Seb Carr

----------
>From: "Byron G. Jacquot" <thescum at surfree.com>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] keyboard resources
>Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001, 5:10 am
>

>>probably this has been asked a few times before,
>>but I need a new keyboard (about 3 octaves), 2 contacts per key for a
>>synth project.
>>Ideally would be a source in Europe.
>>I don't want a used one salvaged from an old synth or so.
>>It should be a new one. Could anybody name me some companies?
>
> I think Fatar would fit the bill, but I don't know if they'll sell "bare"
> key assemblies in small quantities.
>
> If you can deal with ordering from the USA, All Electronics (allcorp.com)
> appear to have some surplus stock from Alesis right now.
>
> Byron Jacquot
> 


From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Mon Aug 27 19:37:49 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:37:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert
References: <3B886A20.D756C7E@prodigy.net> <v04220803b7b02c92530d@[213.112.172.133]>
Message-ID: <000701c12f1e$fee920a0$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

The power supply is still there look under category of dual output supplies,
other dual volts.


----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Kahn <thomas at roundhouse.se>
To: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 10:00 AM
Subject: Re:[sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert


> Harry Bissel:
> > www.mpja.com  (Marlin P. Jones) has part #12976PS
> >
> > a +/-12VDC 1A linear power supply or +/-15VDC 800mA supply
> > (you adjust as you like)
> >
> > 100,120,220,240 VAC input (can you say 'global ready'?)
> >
> > for $18.95
> >
> > Newbies this is your big chance. Get it now !  This will support a
> > pretty decent
> > size modular with nice clean regulated power.  I'd buy one myself but I
> > have
> > a few already.  This is the first re-appearance of this supply in a
> > couple of months
> > so don't wait too long.
> >
> > I'm not affiliated with MPJA in any way ;^P
> > (just hate to see you guys work too hard....)
>
> Thanks!
> I can't find it though. The only message I get from
> their website is:
>
> ****
>
> Part Number: 12976PS Not Found
> ---------------------------------------------------
> The Part Number you entered is not a MPJA Stock No.
> Please check the number and try again.
>
> ****
>
> I guess they ran out of power supplies before I
> got the chance to buy one. :-)
>
> /Thomas
> ___________________________________
> Thomas Kahn
> Mail: mailto:thomas at kahn.nu
> ICQ: 19705911
> WWW: http://www.kahn.nu
> MP3: http://www.mp3.com/kahn



From mcphive at corrupt.net  Mon Aug 27 20:26:49 2001
From: mcphive at corrupt.net (andy)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert
In-Reply-To: <v04220803b7b02c92530d@[213.112.172.133]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108271425590.14675-100000@washington.corrupt.net>


> > www.mpja.com  (Marlin P. Jones) has part #12976PS

> Thanks!
> I can't find it though. The only message I get from
> their website is:

	i think someone already might have posted... but it's #12796. i
ordered one a couple of days ago so i know they have them :)

	andy



From media at mail1.nai.net  Mon Aug 27 21:13:28 2001
From: media at mail1.nai.net (media at mail1.nai.net)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:13:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert
In-Reply-To: <3B886A20.D756C7E@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <v0313030bb7b01209dc99@208.58.252.118>

At 11:16 PM -0400 08/25/01, harry wrote:
>
>www.mpja.com  (Marlin P. Jones) has part #12976PS
>
>a +/-12VDC 1A linear power supply or +/-15VDC 800mA supply
>(you adjust as you like)
>
>100,120,220,240 VAC input (can you say 'global ready'?)
>
>for $18.95
>
>Newbies this is your big chance. Get it now !  This will support a
>pretty decent
>size modular with nice clean regulated power.  I'd buy one myself but I
>have
>a few already.  This is the first re-appearance of this supply in a
>couple of months
>so don't wait too long.
>
>I'm not affiliated with MPJA in any way ;^P
>(just hate to see you guys work too hard....)

I'd be wary of NOS power supplies.  The electrolyctic caps in a linear
supply are crucial components.  For all you know, they could have been
sitting in warehouse with no HVAC, or a trailer in an abandoned freight
yard, for the last 30 years.





From jhaible at t-online.de  Mon Aug 27 21:18:37 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:18:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply Xfmrs
References: <1.5.4.32.20010827115025.0085e414@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <002b01c12f2d$146ce840$437ae03e@debitel.net>

> >What is the tolerance of the transformer's secondary voltage?
> >What if the ac line voltage is running low?
> >What about diode drop?
> >What about capacitor droop?
> >
> I knew someone would say this, but Don was first ;D
> If *everything* that COULD go wrong did, you wouldn't
> survive the average day. If everythig was running the other way,
> you probably wouldn't have a high enough voltage rating on the
> filter caps. Or, the voltage drop across the regs would be so high that
> you would overheat them at max current.
>
> i still say, given the 'average' 28v centrtap tranny, and half a dozen
> modules, all will be well. Most likely. Nobody can say more, for
> 'unknown' transformers & unspecified load.

Well yes, but OTOH I see my lights going dim when I switch on my
Studio, so I guess some temporary voltage drop isn't that unrealistic.

On the positive side, the transformer has a higher output voltage than
rated when the current is below its maximum. That's why I sometimes
*do* use 14V~ or 15V~ transformers for +/-15V. Especially
Wallwarts with 18V~ are hard to come by, so it's possible to
use a 14V~ wart at 20% of its rated power and still have some
"headroom". But nothing should be left to chance here - this
means measuring the resistance of the transformer winding and
doing transient simulations of the whole PSU under load.
(Winding resistance will have a different effect with FWR or
HWR, and unfortunately HWR is the method of choice when
you use an AC wallwart for +/-15V)

JH.




From jhaible at t-online.de  Mon Aug 27 21:20:22 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:20:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
References: <200108271417.f7REHZ727566@smtp001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <003a01c12f2d$532741c0$437ae03e@debitel.net>


> I thought about other threads on these parts... that you can
> put a resistor between ground and the ground pin to raise the
> regulation voltage.  So imagine a poor solder connection
> (a resistive connection) between ground and the ground pin.
> Voila, a resistor and then the regulator puts out too much
> voltage.  Capacitance could cause startup and shutdown problems,
> maybe stability issues, but not overvoltage (AFAIK).

And special care should be taken when using trimpots on
adjustable regulators. When the wiper comes loose, you want
the voltage to drop, not to rise !

JH.




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Mon Aug 27 21:39:06 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:39:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] L7912ACV puts out -16.3 volts
References: <F1546WY9IuXZ2y2Fko800012d02@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <004c01c12f2f$efbe9ea0$7bf97ad5@paul>

Jonathan,

>People have said, on the EFM list, that 78xx and 79xx series voltage
>regulators just plain suck.

I agree they are not an ideal solution, but they do work...

PPG used them in all their products :-)
7812 and 7912, for ALL the Wave's , EVUs and most of the other stuff...

Linear PSUs are IDEAL, BUT they are EXPENSIVE, for the beginner the 78xx and
79xx's are ideal..

TTFN
Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com







From p8051 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 27 22:48:22 2001
From: p8051 at yahoo.com (TooManySynths)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:48:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Quetion on pot substitution
In-Reply-To: <004c01c12f2f$efbe9ea0$7bf97ad5@paul>
Message-ID: <20010827204822.83772.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

I am building/converting several projects for modular
use and I have a question regarding pot values. 
Almost all schematics call for 100k linear pots on the
cv inputs.  I have a boatload of 125k linear pots and
was hoping to use them.  Specifically, how will this
affect performance of cv inputs.

Thanks
Daryl

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From clark at andrews.edu  Mon Aug 27 23:48:11 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:48:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert
In-Reply-To: <v0313030bb7b01209dc99@208.58.252.118>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010827174532.116B-100000@edmund.cs.andrews.edu>

> I'd be wary of NOS power supplies.  The electrolyctic caps in a linear
> supply are crucial components.  For all you know, they could have been
> sitting in warehouse with no HVAC, or a trailer in an abandoned freight
> yard, for the last 30 years.

   Well wouldn't be too hard to thermally cycle it over the course of a 
few days (oven, then icebox) and then load it to rated maximums and see 
if anything breaks.  :)

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From patchell at silcom.com  Tue Aug 28 01:16:04 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:16:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Quetion on pot substitution
References: <20010827204822.83772.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B8AD4B4.28BF8966@silcom.com>

    This is probably not a big deal.  Generally 100K pots are choosen
because it offers a nice, low current draw.  If all it has to do is be a
voltage divider, 125K will not cause any problems.

TooManySynths wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I am building/converting several projects for modular
> use and I have a question regarding pot values.
> Almost all schematics call for 100k linear pots on the
> cv inputs.  I have a boatload of 125k linear pots and
> was hoping to use them.  Specifically, how will this
> affect performance of cv inputs.
>
> Thanks
> Daryl
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue Aug 28 01:16:08 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:16:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Quetion on pot substitution
References: <20010827204822.83772.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001101c12f4e$414b6820$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

125k is quite close to 100k.
And in 99 out of hundred cases there will be no problem anyway, even if the
value differs a bit more.
A possible side effect could be a slightly altered input impedance, but this
is about the worse that may happen.
So go ahead and use them.

Theo



From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>

> Hi All,
>
> I am building/converting several projects for modular
> use and I have a question regarding pot values.
> Almost all schematics call for 100k linear pots on the
> cv inputs.  I have a boatload of 125k linear pots and
> was hoping to use them.  Specifically, how will this
> affect performance of cv inputs.
>
> Thanks
> Daryl
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From KHeck73 at aol.com  Tue Aug 28 01:42:46 2001
From: KHeck73 at aol.com (KHeck73 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:42:46 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert
Message-ID: <86.ec24e5f.28bc34f6@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/27/2001 2:48:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
mcphive at corrupt.net writes:


> i think someone already might have posted... but it's #12796. i
> ordered one a couple of days ago so i know they have them :)
> 
>     andy
> 

Well, I hate to break the news. I ordered one this weekend, then got a phone 
message today from a nice lady named Christine who said they can't fill my 
order because they're out of stock, and it is a discontinued item.

Boy, did they go quick.

-Karl.
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From disck at home.com  Tue Aug 28 01:52:14 2001
From: disck at home.com (pH_______)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:52:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Newbie Power Supply Alert
In-Reply-To: <v0313030bb7b01209dc99@208.58.252.118>
Message-ID: <B7B02B3E.15530%disck@home.com>

On 8/27/01 12:13 PM, "media at mail1.nai.net" <media at mail1.nai.net> wrote:

> I'd be wary of NOS power supplies.  The electrolyctic caps in a linear
> supply are crucial components.  For all you know, they could have been
> sitting in warehouse with no HVAC, or a trailer in an abandoned freight
> yard, for the last 30 years.
> 
> 
> 

I think mpja has pretty recent stuff, the  +-15v PSUs  (NOS) that I got from
them last year had a manufacture date of 1996 on them.
very good prices, and a very high quality PSU.
best,
phil



From p8051 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 02:09:24 2001
From: p8051 at yahoo.com (TooManySynths)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:09:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] ARP->MODULAR was : Question on pot substitution
In-Reply-To: <001101c12f4e$414b6820$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010828000924.2771.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the advice. I didn't think it would be an
issue in the cases I am considering there use, but
wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking something.

Tonights project:

Oddysey with 5 mangled sliders becomes a panel with
2*VCO, 1*VCF, 1*VCA, ADSR, AR, and LFO. It's mostly
drilling with a little soldering.

I know people have modded oddyseys, but has anyone
else gutted one for a diy modular project?  Any good
mods that would be easier to do now, than later? 

Thanks Again
Daryl

PS: by tommorow morning I should have a bunch of
oddysey sliders (minus the five mangled ones) for
sale/trade if anyone wants em :)


--- Theo <t.hogers at home.nl> wrote:
> 125k is quite close to 100k.
> And in 99 out of hundred cases there will be no
> problem anyway, even if the
> value differs a bit more.
> A possible side effect could be a slightly altered
> input impedance, but this
> is about the worse that may happen.
> So go ahead and use them.
> 
> Theo
> 
> 
> 
> From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>
> 
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I am building/converting several projects for
> modular
> > use and I have a question regarding pot values.
> > Almost all schematics call for 100k linear pots on
> the
> > cv inputs.  I have a boatload of 125k linear pots
> and
> > was hoping to use them.  Specifically, how will
> this
> > affect performance of cv inputs.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Daryl
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute
> with Yahoo! Messenger
> > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


From synth1 at airmail.net  Tue Aug 28 03:17:07 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:17:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] MS-10 schematic
Message-ID: <000901c12f5f$28451860$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Anybody have a scan of this? It's repair time!!

Paul S.




From budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au  Tue Aug 28 03:52:14 2001
From: budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au (Benjamin M. Woenig)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:22:14 +0930
Subject: flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
References: <E15bQ42-000I56-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <00bc01c12f64$1084fab0$0c00a8c0@budweiser>

I think a few people will be getting itchy fingers to build a synth with
flying faders!

This probably isn't that difficult, just rather tedious. I would imagine
a small micro, (or even a PIC?) to control a number of faders for
common synth operations would be cool. You would have to implement
some sort of switching control under the micro as well in order to "store"
all patch settings too... I think this has been discussed on the list a few
times in the past. This would be a cool project... maybe it could be an
add on board to an ASM1?

Ouch, I've just realized what would be difficult. Midi implementation.
I'll leave this to someone else to ponder..


~ben

>
> I just went to this site and wow-flying faders- they're my favourite
> invention ever.Now, how hard is it to make a simple interface to make that
> will make these do something useful- i know that is an extremely vague
> question, but if they are okay to build interaces with then i will have to
> get some.
>
> thanks
>
> Seb Carr




From sbernardi at home.net  Tue Aug 28 03:53:16 2001
From: sbernardi at home.net (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:53:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Question on pot substitution
References: <20010827204822.83772.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B8AF98C.B8AB5ADA@home.net>

I've got a page on pot substitution. See
http://members.home.net/sbernardi/elec/og2/partsub_pots.html.
125K should work fine in a circuit calling for 100K.
There are loading effects - if you have a typical 100K input resistance for
a CV input, it will load down a 100K pot and warp the response (you can
actually simulate a log pot with a linear pot by doing this on purpose).
Generally you want the pot value to be about 1/10 the load resistance to
avoid this (i.e., a 10K).
Chris List has a neat Java applet that graphs the effect of pot loading at
http://www.mindspring.com/~clist/PotGraph.html.

TooManySynths wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I am building/converting several projects for modular
> use and I have a question regarding pot values.
> Almost all schematics call for 100k linear pots on the
> cv inputs.  I have a boatload of 125k linear pots and
> was hoping to use them.  Specifically, how will this
> affect performance of cv inputs.
>
> Thanks
> Daryl
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at home.net




From elmystico at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 28 05:13:40 2001
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (the mystic satin)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:13:40 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 troubleshooting update
Message-ID: <200108280314.UAA26983@pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

ahhhh! that makes a lot of sense, the other mismatched #'s were simply
illegible on the schematic and my guesses were wrong (8 looked like a 6
etc...)  But.. check this one out... the schematic has supply for the 4093
labeled as pin 8, while the datasheet lists supply as pin 14... 

any guesses?
I love math...
----------
>From: matti <matti at devo.com>
>To: synth <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] 4017 troubleshooting update
>Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001, 3:33 PM
>

>
>The counting starts at 0. So,the _first_ output corresponds to _Q0_, pin
>3. Go ahead and shake your first at those silly math types. Maybe you'll
>start a revolution.
>
>On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Gavin Russom wrote:
>
>> hi all, continuing to troubleshoot the 4017 sequencer schematic, thanks for
>> the tip on the output resistor.  It seems to me that the pins on the 4017 IC
>> are also labelled wrong... the schematic has the output pins labelled (in
>> order of sequencer step)
>> step 1 = pin 3
>> step 2 = pin 2
>...
>
>
>-
>finland red
>germany black
>egypt white
>


From thescum at surfree.com  Tue Aug 28 05:37:37 2001
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:37:37 -0400
Subject: flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010828033737.012fb480@smtp.surfree.com>

>This probably isn't that difficult, just rather tedious. I would imagine
>a small micro, (or even a PIC?) to control a number of faders for
>common synth operations would be cool. You would have to implement
>some sort of switching control under the micro as well in order to "store"
>all patch settings too... I think this has been discussed on the list a few
>times in the past. This would be a cool project... maybe it could be an
>add on board to an ASM1?

It's ceraintly a reaosnable project, though there are a few caveats:
The faders might not be available in all of the different configurations
you'd want for a project like that.
The more faders you want to control, the more infrastructure you'll need to
tie them together.
You'll probably need to use SCRs to drive the fader motors.

I found the datasheet for the faders:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/components/pdf/evab_nm.pdf
It's a little terse, and leaves me wondering how to connect the faders.

The usual motor controlled devices often have 2 tracks: one for the signal
(which can have whatever taper you need), and one for sensing where the
thing is (with linear resistance).  The sensing signal can then be A-to-D
converted, and the controlling micro can tell where it is, and move it if
need be.  This means you'll want some A-to-D on the micro.

I'd always thought the motor would be a stepper, accepting gray code control
from the host, but these Panasonics appear to only have 2 control inputs,
whereas a stepper would have 4.  It probably has something to do with the
tabs labeled A and B in the pitcure.

You'd also want a "record" mode, where you can move the faders by hand, and
let the micro observe where they are.  You could store snapshots in the
micro, though you'd probably want to transmit the fader moves to some
external box (MIDI is a likely candidate) if you wanted true "moving-fader"
automation.  Fancy moving faders use metal caps and a capacitive touch
sensing system to know when your finger is on the fader, though you could do
it the hard way by reading the A to D.

The number of faders you want to control will probably influence the
selection of a micro for the job.  A faster micro (and faster A to D) means
you can keep better track of things.  A multiplexed A to D would also help,
in fact, you'll probably want to do some degree of multiplexing: many faders
sharing a single A to D.  The speed of the motors you're controlling might
be several orders of magnitude slower than the A to D, as well...

>Ouch, I've just realized what would be difficult. Midi implementation.
>I'll leave this to someone else to ponder..

MIDI's not that tough, certainly not if you've got a micro in there!  To me,
it's also a good motivator to be able to record, edit & playback fader moves
from my favorite software sequencer.

Byron Jacquot



From amartens at interchange.ubc.ca  Tue Aug 28 06:42:19 2001
From: amartens at interchange.ubc.ca (Andrew Martens)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:42:19 -0700
Subject: flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
References: <E15bQ42-000I56-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> <00bc01c12f64$1084fab0$0c00a8c0@budweiser>
Message-ID: <003201c12f7c$184f87c0$183e4418@vc.shawcable.net>

> Ouch, I've just realized what would be difficult. Midi implementation.
> I'll leave this to someone else to ponder..

Actually, doing a MIDI implementation on a PIC isn't that bad.  This is
assuming you're using a PIC with a built-in USART, though.  It also depends
whether you need to receive data, or just be able to send basic MIDI
messages.  If it's the latter, then coding it is pretty trivial.  Even
receiving/parsing MIDI data is not _that_ painful an exercise.

That reminds me, I need to get to work on my SID synth again...

Cheers,
Andrew Martens



From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue Aug 28 08:14:48 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:14:48 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 4017 troubleshooting update
References: <200108280314.UAA26983@pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001101c12f88$be1528c0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Err.., the schematic show NO power connections for either the 4093 nor 4017
nor TL072.
You have to know how to hookup the power yourself.
If things don't work, guess connecting the power pins is your first stop ;)

Pin 8 of the 4093 goes to a switch (those purple thingies are switches)
which let you toggle between GND and V+.
This is the start stop switch for the sequencer.
BTW, its better to connect pin 8 to the switch AND to a 33k resistor to GND.

Theo


From: the mystic satin <elmystico at earthlink.net>

> ahhhh! that makes a lot of sense, the other mismatched #'s were simply
> illegible on the schematic and my guesses were wrong (8 looked like a 6
> etc...)  But.. check this one out... the schematic has supply for the 4093
> labeled as pin 8, while the datasheet lists supply as pin 14...
>
> any guesses?
> I love math...
> ----------
> >From: matti <matti at devo.com>
> >To: synth <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >Subject: Re: [sdiy] 4017 troubleshooting update
> >Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001, 3:33 PM
> >
>
> >
> >The counting starts at 0. So,the _first_ output corresponds to _Q0_, pin
> >3. Go ahead and shake your first at those silly math types. Maybe you'll
> >start a revolution.
> >
> >On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Gavin Russom wrote:
> >
> >> hi all, continuing to troubleshoot the 4017 sequencer schematic, thanks
for
> >> the tip on the output resistor.  It seems to me that the pins on the
4017 IC
> >> are also labelled wrong... the schematic has the output pins labelled
(in
> >> order of sequencer step)
> >> step 1 = pin 3
> >> step 2 = pin 2
> >...
> >
> >
> >-
> >finland red
> >germany black
> >egypt white
> >



From PMvN at gmx.net  Tue Aug 28 09:40:33 2001
From: PMvN at gmx.net (PMvN at gmx.net)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:40:33 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] TB3030 case
References: <E15bM2E-0000sx-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <11562.998984433@www19.gmx.net>

Looks really nice! I want one ;^)!

The seq. showed there, why pots? A new thing, a-tonal acid? Sure it makes
the whole 
thing a lot more analog!

Isn't that pouring the TB3030 into one silicium (is it that?) block like
those people 
who want to keep certain loved objects from getting destroyed by time, a
sort of 
translucent safe?

Paul

> 
> have a look at this one
> 
> http://www.oakleysound.com/gallery4.htm
> 
> tb3030 and sequencer in tabletop case-not transparent but the wood looks
> nice.
> 
> Seb Carr
> ----------
> >From: PMvN at gmx.net
> >To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >Subject: [sdiy] TB3030 case
> >Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001, 11:19 am
> >
> 
> > Hi! I've subscribed myself again after few years of 'no time'. Back then
> I'd
> > ordered the TB3030 PCB from Tony Allgood. I still haven't figured out if
> it
> > has any use to make a seq. ala original 303 to acompany the 3030 in a
> single
> > case. Friends have talked my into making a translucent case; silicium!
> Of
> > course if some part goes bad than I can throw away the whole 3030...
> >
> > So my Q: Has anybody made a nice table top case for our TB3030? And/or
> seq.?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Paul van Nugteren
> >
> > --
> > Windows: Where do you want to go today?
> > Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
> > BeOS: Where do you want(ed) to Be tomorrow?
> >
> > Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net
> > 
>

-- 
Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net


From efm3 at mediaone.net  Tue Aug 28 10:22:11 2001
From: efm3 at mediaone.net (tomg@efm)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 04:22:11 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Midi-Gate Sale
Message-ID: <001301c12f9a$8df383a0$0100a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

The Midi-Gate sale is on. For one week through Sept 5th
you can get the PC Board, PIC, dip-switch, power connector
and header for $35.00 + postage. I can sell the complete kit
and may even be able to include a free panel blank for $48.50.

If you have already placed your order you get the free panel
(if they come through) and the other stuff too...;-)

If you don't get a blank it's not because I didn't try everything
I could think of. Page 10 of the PDF prints 3 panel layouts. One
for layout, one for the panel and an xtra just in case. I will include
a piece of clear pucker-resistant plastic to cover it with.

The PDFs are getting better. This one is 11 pages weighing in
at about 470K. It includes schematics, panel & PCB layouts,
5 pictures of the completed module, the parts list, assembly
guide, introduction and 3 1/2 pages of application notes. The
printout works well and looks nice.

For more info on what a Midi-Gate is look here...
http://people.atl.mediaone.net/efm3/midigate.pdf

Tell Kim efmorders at hotmail.com if you are interested. She is
out of town again and may not answer until Thursday but your 
order will be in line. Anyone waiting for an answer when she
gets back gets 100 free 1N4148s..How's that?.....;-)

The Midi-Gates go together easily and there is no setup requiring
test equipment but it should not be considered as a first project.

Thank you for playing...;-) 

Tom




From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 08:25:02 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:25:02
Subject: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Message-ID: <200108281525.f7SFPjK03324@smtp008pub.verizon.net>

I believe that patents do expire here in the U.S.  I
keep thinking 7 years...  mmm, maybe that's mirrors
when you break one.

I am NOT a lawyer, nor a patent expert.  Anyone please
feel free to correct the above if it's wrong.


Paul van Nugteren <PMvN at gmx.net> wrote:
>I wish patents would only last a specific period of time eg. 10 years. A lot
>of 
>company's abuse patents and become incompetitive.
>
>Paul
>
>-- 
>Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 10:49:38 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:49:38 +0100
Subject: flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
References: <E15bQ42-000I56-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> <00bc01c12f64$1084fab0$0c00a8c0@budweiser>
Message-ID: <01c401c12f9f$f6f2d720$7d1287d9@default>

>This probably isn't that difficult, just rather tedious.

This is not an easy task. The main problem is that you are dealing with
faders that are driven by ordinary motors. These need to be controlled.
You need to have a feedback loop checking the position of the fader for
much of the time. This can be done in software, hardware or preferably
both. The gain of the feedback loop is not constant, it changes with
age, speed of the motor, temperature and the position of the fader.
'Look up tables' need to be made that are dynamic. Too great a gain in
the motor servos and the fader oscilates. Too little and the fader moves
too slowly, or worse not at all and gets stuck.

And what happens when you touch the fader? .. some touch sensor needs to
be made. You don't want the servo battling against you. Flick the faders
on the old Yamaha ProMixes with your fingers and you'll really upset the
faders (and owners). This was a nasty trick used at trade shows by some
people.

And now we come to the slight matter of current. If all motors are
moving at the same time, how much current do you need? For the moving
faders on the 24 channel Soundcraft/Spirit we had a 10A +/-12V switch
mode. Thats only 24 faders... if you can move one fader at a time it
gets better.

The finest flying faders are/were made by Penny and Giles and retro
fitted onto the Neve and bigger Soundcraft consoles. I think they used
linear motors and the bearings were better than the cheaper Alps types.
I think they were 60UKP each back in 1990.

I think the best way now is probably to go the way of the Nord Lead 3
and have rotary encoders with LEDs around them to show the position of
the pointer.

BTW: At Marconi we had a 'just-box' where you had to put 10 pence for
charity everytime you said 'just' in relation to the difficulty to an
engineering problem. :-)

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan









From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 08:57:34 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:57:34
Subject: [sdiy] Concentric Pots
Message-ID: <200108281558.f7SFwAJ22199@smtp004pub.verizon.net>

The advent of digital tuners and tone controls for radio 
and TV have made these all but extinct.  I haven't seen 
new ones in a catalog for a long long time.  They may be 
available from salvage houses, or even some brand new
ones, but forget being picky about values.

However, the last place I saw these on modern equipment
is on a pair of Jensen computer speakers I have.  It's 
a very small unit that controls bass and treble.  So
perhaps there's hope.  But again, don't expect a plethora
of different values.

Mitchell Hudson <mitch at sirius.com> wrote:
>    Does anyone know where you can get concentric pots and knobs? I had
>an idea to make something very compact.
>
>--M
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 11:21:32 2001
From: Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk (Lincoln Fong)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:21:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Message-ID: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEHPCHAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>

>>Guess every thing is patent-able in the US.

If there is some truth in this can someone point me to info on taking out
such a thing. I have a UK patent I would like to extend but have been
getting very discouraging reports from the European PCT that brokers
worldwide patents. Do I have to go through them and use a lawyer etc? After
all I did the UK patent myself which cost next to nothing. The worldwide
stuff cost a fortune in lawyer fees and failed.

Lincoln

PS The 'reamp' is a useful device (have diy-ed several for friends). The big
advantage over electronic means is the ground isolation of a transformer.
Guitar amps are notorious ground noise antennas particularly if you run a
long lead into another room (so you can mic up) and then plug it into a
distant power socket. I'm all for manufacturing obvious gadgets if they're
handy. Don't know if I agree with the patent but live and let live...



From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Tue Aug 28 11:59:08 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:59:08 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] SSM2017P
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF01A@exchange1.intermetall.de>

> Another option is a switch for gain.
I think for low noise it's the optimal choice.
As the mic level will have large variations it
is not necessary to adjust the gain very accurate.

m.c. 


From mitch at sirius.com  Tue Aug 28 13:11:50 2001
From: mitch at sirius.com (Mitchell Hudson)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 04:11:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Concentric Pots
Message-ID: <3B8B7C76.5F09194B@sirius.com>

    Does anyone know where you can get concentric pots and knobs? I had
an idea to make something very compact.

--M



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 16:00:14 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:00:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
References: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEHPCHAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001c01c12fc9$c34e38e0$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Lincoln,

As far as I know you must use a lawyer. However, some lawyers will let you
do all of the grunt work to save money. You do the research and most of the
writing then the lawyer waves his magic wand and signs the paperwork. I did
it this way for one patent. The price wasn't too bad.

I think that the reamp lists a patent with my name on it, Hughes et al. It's
been too many years.

I agree. It seems that anything can be patented. Genes? Give me a break.
It's just avarice.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: Lincoln Fong <Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
To: Synth-Diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US


> >>Guess every thing is patent-able in the US.
>
> If there is some truth in this can someone point me to info on taking out
> such a thing. I have a UK patent I would like to extend but have been
> getting very discouraging reports from the European PCT that brokers
> worldwide patents. Do I have to go through them and use a lawyer etc?
After
> all I did the UK patent myself which cost next to nothing. The worldwide
> stuff cost a fortune in lawyer fees and failed.
>
> Lincoln
>
> PS The 'reamp' is a useful device (have diy-ed several for friends). The
big
> advantage over electronic means is the ground isolation of a transformer.
> Guitar amps are notorious ground noise antennas particularly if you run a
> long lead into another room (so you can mic up) and then plug it into a
> distant power socket. I'm all for manufacturing obvious gadgets if they're
> handy. Don't know if I agree with the patent but live and let live...
>



From PMvN at gmx.net  Tue Aug 28 17:05:20 2001
From: PMvN at gmx.net (Paul van Nugteren)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:05:20 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
References: <001c01c12fc9$c34e38e0$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <824.999011120@www6.gmx.net>

I wish patents would only last a specific period of time eg. 10 years. A lot
of 
company's abuse patents and become incompetitive.

Paul

-- 
Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net


From perpetual at uswest.net  Tue Aug 28 17:22:11 2001
From: perpetual at uswest.net (alex dickey)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:22:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
References: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEHPCHAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B8BB723.103C4B6F@uswest.net>


> PS The 'reamp' is a useful device (have diy-ed several for friends). The big
> advantage over electronic means is the ground isolation of a transformer.
> 

did you have a favorite transformer you were using that you could maybe
let slip a part number on?

thanks,
alex
-- 
http://www.geocities.com/aurelialuz


From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 17:32:41 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:32:41 -0700
Subject: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
References: <001c01c12fc9$c34e38e0$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <824.999011120@www6.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <000501c12fd6$ae368540$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

I believe that they have a duration of 17 years. But, under certain
circumstances a patent may be extended.


----- Original Message -----
From: Paul van Nugteren <PMvN at gmx.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:05 AM
Subject: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US


> I wish patents would only last a specific period of time eg. 10 years. A
lot
> of
> company's abuse patents and become incompetitive.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net
>



From deknow at deknow.com  Tue Aug 28 17:38:29 2001
From: deknow at deknow.com (Dean Stiglitz)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:38:29 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Message-ID: <200108281545.f7SFjHZ08171@chmls05.mediaone.net>

i don't know how having a foriegn patent already changes things...but as far as a US patent, my experience comes from working on saxophone designs. 

>>  Lincoln,

 >>  As far as I know you must use a lawyer. However, some lawyers will let you
 >>  do all of the grunt work to save money. You do the research and most of
 >>  the
 >>  writing then the lawyer waves his magic wand and signs the paperwork. I
 >>  did
 >>  it this way for one patent. The price wasn't too bad.

you do not NEED a laywer to file a patent...but it is probably advisable.

<rant mode on>

the problem with the us patent system, is that being awarded a patent by the patent office is not the end of it.  the patent office does not make it illegal for someone to infringe on your patent, it allowes you to sue someone that does infringe on the patent.  in the course of the court case (that you bring with your own money), the court may find your design "unpatentable" for any of the legit reasons (the most slippery being that "the design is obvious for anyone skilled in the art")....an obscure referance by someone else before you filed your patent (or before you can prove you designed it) can lead the court to find your patent invalid.

basically, you file your patent, and wait for someone else to infringe upon it.  you then take them to court, and they claim your idea isn't patentable.  my understanding is that 2/3 of the time a patent issue gets to a court, that the idea is found not patentable.

the reason for a lawyer is to:
1.  determine that in your and the lawyers mind that the idea is patentable (a search of patent archives is a good place to start...but you should also look at anything that is remotely similar to your patent, even if it's an obscure academic paper written 20 or 100 years ago).  

2.  to make it seem like your patent is defenable.  you would like a would-be infringer to aproach you to license the patent instead of ignoring it.  the more defendable the patent appears (the name of a well known patent attorney on the application does make it look more defendable), the more likely the infringer is to license or buy the patent...they would also like to protect their product from being copied, so if the patent appears defendable, they will want to have rights to it so they can defend it...if they ignore your patent, they cannot try to stop someone from making a competing product.


i worked on some saxophone designs a while back, and did begin the process of patenting them (i think i was about 2grand into it), when i realized that if anyone was going to steal my designs, it would probably be yamaha...and their history is that of not licensing, but for you to take them to court.  i decided it wasn't worth it.

<rant mode off>


deknow






From synth1 at airmail.net  Tue Aug 28 18:01:59 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:01:59 -0500
Subject: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
References: <200108281525.f7SFPjK03324@smtp008pub.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <002101c12fda$c6cbb720$71765140@speakeasy.net>

17yrs, I think

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Gravenhorst" <music.maker at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US


> I believe that patents do expire here in the U.S.  I
> keep thinking 7 years...  mmm, maybe that's mirrors
> when you break one.
>
> I am NOT a lawyer, nor a patent expert.  Anyone please
> feel free to correct the above if it's wrong.
>
>
> Paul van Nugteren <PMvN at gmx.net> wrote:
> >I wish patents would only last a specific period of time eg. 10 years. A
lot
> >of
> >company's abuse patents and become incompetitive.
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >--
> >Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net
> >
>
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>
>



From amartens at interchange.ubc.ca  Tue Aug 28 18:15:40 2001
From: amartens at interchange.ubc.ca (Andrew Martens)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:15:40 -0700
Subject: flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
References: <E15bQ42-000I56-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> <00bc01c12f64$1084fab0$0c00a8c0@budweiser> <01c401c12f9f$f6f2d720$7d1287d9@default>
Message-ID: <001d01c12fdc$ae7ca740$183e4418@vc.shawcable.net>

> I think the best way now is probably to go the way of the Nord Lead 3
> and have rotary encoders with LEDs around them to show the position of
> the pointer.

Their idea is actually quite clever, IMHO.  I've been wanting to use
something like those for a while, but I'm not aware that anyone manufactures
them.  Did Nord custom-build the encoder+LED themselves, outsource it to
someone, or am I just missing something somewhere?

Cheers,
Andrew Martens



From don at till.com  Tue Aug 28 18:34:02 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:34:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
In-Reply-To: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEHPCHAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200108281634.JAA16341@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: "Lincoln Fong" <Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
   Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:21:32 +0100

   >>Guess every thing is patent-able in the US.

Pretty much.  To their credit, there are no patents on perpetual
motion machines.  :-)

   If there is some truth in this can someone point me to info on taking out
   such a thing.

The US Patent and Trademark office web site is very useful:
  http://www.uspto.gov

Also, I highly recommend a book called "Patent It Yourself", by David
Pressman, Nolo Press.

   Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:05:20 +0200 (MEST)
   From: Paul van Nugteren <PMvN at gmx.net>

   I wish patents would only last a specific period of time eg. 10
   years. A lot of company's abuse patents and become incompetitive.

Before 1995 patents lasted 17 years.  With the GATT treaty they last
20.  There are some other variations for specific kinds of patents.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 18:37:08 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:37:08 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Concentric Pots
References: <200108281558.f7SFwAJ22199@smtp004pub.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <001401c12fdf$ae7c9fe0$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Bourns and others used to (okay, it has been a few years) make potentiometer
as pieces. Pick the elements. Pick the shaft. Pick the switch. I had a
distributor build four gang pots this way. Check with your local friendly
industrial electronics distributor.



From phdinfunk at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 28 18:51:40 2001
From: phdinfunk at hotmail.com (Dr Strangelove)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:51:40 -0400
Subject: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Message-ID: <F174M2S0gUFDKPGzGqi00000ee5@hotmail.com>

Yea but you have to renew a couple of times during patent ownership if you 
want to keep your patent.  I think you have to renew at 5 years and again 
sometime after that, there's a fee.  The idea (I suppose) being that if you 
aren't making money off of your patent then you'll let it expire and, 
perhaps, become useful to others.

         -=<Jonathan Pratt>=-
       (Phdinfunk at hotmail.com)




>From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1 at airmail.net>
>To: <music.maker at gte.net>, <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:01:59 -0500
>
>17yrs, I think
>
>Paul S.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott Gravenhorst" <music.maker at gte.net>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:25 AM
>Subject: Re: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
>
>
> > I believe that patents do expire here in the U.S.  I
> > keep thinking 7 years...  mmm, maybe that's mirrors
> > when you break one.
> >
> > I am NOT a lawyer, nor a patent expert.  Anyone please
> > feel free to correct the above if it's wrong.
> >
> >
> > Paul van Nugteren <PMvN at gmx.net> wrote:
> > >I wish patents would only last a specific period of time eg. 10 years. 
>A
>lot
> > >of
> > >company's abuse patents and become incompetitive.
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >--
> > >Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net
> > >
> >
> > =========================================================
> > - Government: The other religion.
> > - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> >
> > -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> > -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> > -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> > -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
> >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From torbjorn.hornfeldt at telia.com  Tue Aug 28 18:52:18 2001
From: torbjorn.hornfeldt at telia.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?Torbj=F6rn_H=F6rnfeldt?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:52:18 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
References: <E15b1RR-000F3D-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> <000901c12e65$09285fa0$b0f59e3e@debitel.net> <3B8A62A5.63BB2B94@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <001901c12fe1$dfd1cbe0$1e94c6c3@RA>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ingo Debus" <debus at cityweb.de>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] SSM2017P


<snip> 
> If you want pot-adjustable gain, you need a pot with reverse log taper.
> This is perhaps not easy to get. I used normal log pots and mounted the
> shaft from the back of the pot. This was quite fumbly (does this word
> exist?), I wouldn't do it again this way. If you use a pot, don't forget
> to put a capacitor (big, electrolytic) in series with it. It'll scratch
> terribly otherwise.
> Another option is a switch for gain.
</snip> 

Wasn't there a discussion on changing the taper of a pot on the list earlier?
With a reference to an article in Elektor? Is it possible to bend a linear
pot to reverse log taper with the addition of a few resistors?

Questions, questions...

Torbj?rn - who has a number of SSM2017s sitting around unused





From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 18:58:20 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:58:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] reamp
References: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEHPCHAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk> <3B8BB723.103C4B6F@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <000701c12fe2$a4bc4200$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Use a line to grid transformer or a plate to line transformer. UTC, Jensen,
Triad and others show up on eBay frequently.

I just checked in the garage: UTC A-24 15K to 500 ohm, Triad HS-1 600 to 77K
ohm

----- Original Message -----
From: alex dickey <perpetual at uswest.net>
To: <Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
Cc: Synth-Diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US


>
> > PS The 'reamp' is a useful device (have diy-ed several for friends). The
big
> > advantage over electronic means is the ground isolation of a
transformer.
> >
>
> did you have a favorite transformer you were using that you could maybe
> let slip a part number on?
>
> thanks,
> alex
> --
> http://www.geocities.com/aurelialuz



From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Aug 28 19:06:36 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:06:36 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Concentric Pots
In-Reply-To: <3B8B7C76.5F09194B@sirius.com>
Message-ID: <B7B139CC.22D49%grichter@asapnet.net>

Me too, me too. I have never been able to find a source for these with less
than a 1000 piece min. order.

> From: Mitchell Hudson <mitch at sirius.com>
> Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 04:11:50 -0700
> To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>, EFM <EFM_Synth at yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [sdiy] Concentric Pots
> 
> Does anyone know where you can get concentric pots and knobs? I had
> an idea to make something very compact.
> 
> --M
> 
> 
> 




From don at till.com  Tue Aug 28 19:06:50 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:06:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
In-Reply-To: <200108281545.f7SFjHZ08171@chmls05.mediaone.net> (message from
	Dean Stiglitz on Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:38:29 -0400)
Message-ID: <200108281706.KAA24546@shell9.ba.best.com>

   Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:38:29 -0400
   From: Dean Stiglitz <deknow at deknow.com>

   <rant mode on>

   The problem with the us patent system, is that being awarded a 
   patent by the patent office is not the end of it.  the patent
   office does not make it illegal for someone to infringe on your
   patent, it allowes you to sue someone that does infringe on the
   patent. 

   <rant mode off>

This is actually a good thing.  You really would't want the patent
office to in the enforcement business.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From deknow at deknow.com  Tue Aug 28 19:12:28 2001
From: deknow at deknow.com (Dean Stiglitz)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:12:28 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Message-ID: <200108281719.f7SHJbx18470@chmls20.mediaone.net>

well, i do tend to agree with that, don.

it would be nice, however, if a patent approved by the patent office was more protected.  perhaps there should be 2 types of challenge to a patent.

1.  if one ignores the patent and you sue them, tripple damages could be applied.

2.  one could "challenge a patent" without infringing upon it (ie, they take you to court for patenting something they don't think is patentable).  the damages in this type of challenge could be considerably less, reflecting the nature of challenging the patent before bringing a competing product to the marketplace. 


a certificate from the patent office should protect you more than it does.

deknow

>>  This is actually a good thing.  You really would't want the patent
 >>  office to in the enforcement business.

 >>  -- Don


From don at till.com  Tue Aug 28 19:37:16 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:37:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
In-Reply-To: <200108281719.f7SHJbx18470@chmls20.mediaone.net> (message from
	Dean Stiglitz on Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:12:28 -0400)
Message-ID: <200108281737.KAA06486@shell9.ba.best.com>

There are other solutions too.  The most entertaining is BountyQuest,
a web site where folks can win a $10,000.00 prize for discovering prior
art for a contested patent.

  http://www.bountyquest.com

(I think it is so cool that one of the prior art entries for the
Amazon single-click-purchase patent was an old Doonsbury comic!)

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue Aug 28 19:58:47 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:58:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Concentric Pots
References: <200108281558.f7SFwAJ22199@smtp004pub.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <001101c12feb$1667b580$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

No doubt consumer electronics where the big marked for these,
but concentric pots are still used on test & measurement equipment among
others.
There are 4 of them on my brand new scope.

Rean manufactures several series of knobs suitable for concentric pots.
These seem to be resent models, not NOS.
Also except from the minimum order quantity (when I checked 250), getting
the knobs is no problem.
However I still don't know where to go for the pots either.

Theo


From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>

> The advent of digital tuners and tone controls for radio
> and TV have made these all but extinct.  I haven't seen
> new ones in a catalog for a long long time.  They may be
> available from salvage houses, or even some brand new
> ones, but forget being picky about values.
>
> However, the last place I saw these on modern equipment
> is on a pair of Jensen computer speakers I have.  It's
> a very small unit that controls bass and treble.  So
> perhaps there's hope.  But again, don't expect a plethora
> of different values.
>
> Mitchell Hudson <mitch at sirius.com> wrote:
> >    Does anyone know where you can get concentric pots and knobs? I had
> >an idea to make something very compact.
> >
> >--M
> >
> >
>
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
> -- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html
>
>



From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Aug 28 20:02:17 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:02:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Concentric Pots
In-Reply-To: <001401c12fdf$ae7c9fe0$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <B7B146D9.22E37%grichter@asapnet.net>

Allen-Bradley has the Mod-Pot series. By the time you are done, a concentric
pot costs $25 each, too much for a production sequencer.

> From: "John L Marshall" <john.l.marshall at gte.net>
> Reply-To: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:37:08 -0700
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Concentric Pots
> 
> Bourns and others used to (okay, it has been a few years) make potentiometer
> as pieces. Pick the elements. Pick the shaft. Pick the switch. I had a
> distributor build four gang pots this way. Check with your local friendly
> industrial electronics distributor.
> 
> 
> 




From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue Aug 28 20:12:00 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:12:00 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
References: <200108281545.f7SFjHZ08171@chmls05.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <002b01c12fec$eed04b20$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

This explains why its more difficult and expensive! to get a patent here in
the Netherlands.
The patent office (supposedly) does a through search to verify that the idea
is indeed patentable and the patent will most probably hold in court.
This may as it should be, but it makes getting a patent utterly expensive.
Unless you expect making a awful lot of money from the idea, its not
feasible to file a patent.

Theo



From: Dean Stiglitz <deknow at deknow.com>

> i don't know how having a foriegn patent already changes things...but as
far as a US patent, my experience comes from working on saxophone designs.
>
> >>  Lincoln,
>
>  >>  As far as I know you must use a lawyer. However, some lawyers will
let you
>  >>  do all of the grunt work to save money. You do the research and most
of
>  >>  the
>  >>  writing then the lawyer waves his magic wand and signs the paperwork.
I
>  >>  did
>  >>  it this way for one patent. The price wasn't too bad.
>
> you do not NEED a laywer to file a patent...but it is probably advisable.
>
> <rant mode on>
>
> the problem with the us patent system, is that being awarded a patent by
the patent office is not the end of it.  the patent office does not make it
illegal for someone to infringe on your patent, it allowes you to sue
someone that does infringe on the patent.  in the course of the court case
(that you bring with your own money), the court may find your design
"unpatentable" for any of the legit reasons (the most slippery being that
"the design is obvious for anyone skilled in the art")....an obscure
referance by someone else before you filed your patent (or before you can
prove you designed it) can lead the court to find your patent invalid.
>
> basically, you file your patent, and wait for someone else to infringe
upon it.  you then take them to court, and they claim your idea isn't
patentable.  my understanding is that 2/3 of the time a patent issue gets to
a court, that the idea is found not patentable.
>
> the reason for a lawyer is to:
> 1.  determine that in your and the lawyers mind that the idea is
patentable (a search of patent archives is a good place to start...but you
should also look at anything that is remotely similar to your patent, even
if it's an obscure academic paper written 20 or 100 years ago).
>
> 2.  to make it seem like your patent is defenable.  you would like a
would-be infringer to aproach you to license the patent instead of ignoring
it.  the more defendable the patent appears (the name of a well known patent
attorney on the application does make it look more defendable), the more
likely the infringer is to license or buy the patent...they would also like
to protect their product from being copied, so if the patent appears
defendable, they will want to have rights to it so they can defend it...if
they ignore your patent, they cannot try to stop someone from making a
competing product.
>
>
> i worked on some saxophone designs a while back, and did begin the process
of patenting them (i think i was about 2grand into it), when i realized that
if anyone was going to steal my designs, it would probably be yamaha...and
their history is that of not licensing, but for you to take them to court.
i decided it wasn't worth it.
>
> <rant mode off>
>
>
> deknow
>
>
>
>



From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue Aug 28 20:42:10 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:42:10 +0200
Subject: flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
References: <E15bQ42-000I56-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> <00bc01c12f64$1084fab0$0c00a8c0@budweiser> <01c401c12f9f$f6f2d720$7d1287d9@default> <001d01c12fdc$ae7ca740$183e4418@vc.shawcable.net>
Message-ID: <001f01c12ff1$26395580$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

You can get encoders with a LED ring from ALPS, about $20 each I think.

I've two students working on a proto type midifader box where there are led
bars under a touch screen.
Promising, but still a bit too expensive to be economical.

Theo


From: Andrew Martens <amartens at interchange.ubc.ca>



> > I think the best way now is probably to go the way of the Nord Lead 3
> > and have rotary encoders with LEDs around them to show the position of
> > the pointer.
>
> Their idea is actually quite clever, IMHO.  I've been wanting to use
> something like those for a while, but I'm not aware that anyone
manufactures
> them.  Did Nord custom-build the encoder+LED themselves, outsource it to
> someone, or am I just missing something somewhere?
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew Martens
>



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 20:43:57 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:43:57 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
References: <E15b1RR-000F3D-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> <000901c12e65$09285fa0$b0f59e3e@debitel.net> <3B8A62A5.63BB2B94@cityweb.de> <001901c12fe1$dfd1cbe0$1e94c6c3@RA>
Message-ID: <002c01c12ff1$66003d00$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

One solution that I have used is to use normal log taper pots but use a knob
with numbers printed on a skirt.

Use a hole saw to make a plastic skirt for your favorite knob. Print your
legend clockwise around the edge of the plastic (0 through 10) clockwise.
Glue the skirt to the back or your knob.

The natural inclination will be to turn the knob counter-clockwise to
increase value.
----- Original Message -----
From: Torbj?rn H?rnfeldt <torbjorn.hornfeldt at telia.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] SSM2017P


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ingo Debus" <debus at cityweb.de>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 5:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] SSM2017P
>
>
> <snip>
> > If you want pot-adjustable gain, you need a pot with reverse log taper.
> > This is perhaps not easy to get. I used normal log pots and mounted the
> > shaft from the back of the pot. This was quite fumbly (does this word
> > exist?), I wouldn't do it again this way. If you use a pot, don't forget
> > to put a capacitor (big, electrolytic) in series with it. It'll scratch
> > terribly otherwise.
> > Another option is a switch for gain.
> </snip>
>
> Wasn't there a discussion on changing the taper of a pot on the list
earlier?
> With a reference to an article in Elektor? Is it possible to bend a linear
> pot to reverse log taper with the addition of a few resistors?
>
> Questions, questions...
>
> Torbj?rn - who has a number of SSM2017s sitting around unused
>
>
>



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 20:58:31 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:58:31 -0700
Subject: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
References: <MWMail.hthlsglq@host.none>
Message-ID: <003601c12ff3$6edcb140$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

The "Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide" has 25 pages dedicated to
the 6581SID.

I am unclear as to why people are building dedicated single board computers
to control the SID. A single board computer already exists with plenty of
RAM, ROM and I/O. The processor is a popular but mature 8 bit type and it is
easy to program. This single board has enough speed and power to program the
6581 in realtime.The addition of MIDI I/O has already been done. I'm talking
about the Commodore 64. Cheap and plentiful.


----- Original Message -----
From: John Lamb <jlamb3 at nc.rr.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard
resources


> "Andrew Martens" <amartens at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote on 8/27/01 9:42:19
PM:
>
> >That reminds me, I need to get to work on my SID synth again...
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Andrew Martens
>
> I'm interested in doing something similar -- If you could point me towards
some good 6581 documentation I
> would be much obliged.
>
> Thanks
> John Lamb
>



From jlamb3 at nc.rr.com  Tue Aug 28 21:53:42 2001
From: jlamb3 at nc.rr.com (John Lamb)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:53:42 -0700
Subject: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
Message-ID: <MWMail.hthlsglq@host.none>

"Andrew Martens" <amartens at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote on 8/27/01 9:42:19 PM:

>That reminds me, I need to get to work on my SID synth again...
>
>Cheers,
>Andrew Martens

I'm interested in doing something similar -- If you could point me towards some good 6581 documentation I 
would be much obliged.

Thanks
John Lamb



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 21:55:38 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:55:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Concentric Pots
References: <B7B146D9.22E37%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <002001c12ffb$69b8cca0$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

I agree, too expensive for production. But if you are doing a one-off and
size or some other factor is important $25 may be acceptable. I forget how
much I paid for the four gang pots. I was working for Wyle at the time.



----- Original Message -----
From: Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>
To: <owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Concentric Pots


> Allen-Bradley has the Mod-Pot series. By the time you are done, a
concentric
> pot costs $25 each, too much for a production sequencer.




From controlkeys at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 28 22:36:28 2001
From: controlkeys at hotmail.com (Bill Keys)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:36:28 -0500
Subject: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
Message-ID: <F2411OWhMnU5JzUIDk4000062e5@hotmail.com>

Well, one reason is that the C64 doesn't fit into my rack very well. ;o)

Also, I wrote a book a number of years ago, called "Music And Sound For The 
Commodore 64" - so I know what a b*tch it is to program the SID via the 
C64's basic interpreter. Just not flexible enough to create the more 
exciting sounds. I even used DATA statements to load in short machine 
language segments for a program or two in the book. Still too painfully slow 
from an operational (setting up) standpoint.

No real-time control, other than the POTX and POTY 8-bit (joystick) ports. I 
don't think the keyboard does much to help, controller-wise. Forget about 
taking the ADSR or waveform samples from the SID register and popping them 
back into a filter reg... too much code effort for too little gain. Same 
with going from the POT ports back into the SID. The 6502/6510 was running 
at only 2 Mhz. That whopping 65535 bytes gets eaten pretty fast, too.

Of course, you might have MOD software lying around, but I think most of 
that doesn't take advantage of the synth, as much as it does for providing a 
way to playback the music.

Plus needing a monitor in the rack....

I'm leaning towards using the 10Mhz (or is it 20Mhz?) OOPIC 
(http://www.oopic.com) as a controller for a SID-based unit, myself. some of 
the things I've been considering...

MIDI-To-SID converter: take a midi note number and look up the hi and low 
frequecy values to pop into the SID.

PIC DCEGs: Digital Complex Envelope Generators, keyed from the same source 
as the SIDs gate signal comes from. Provides data to pop into filter regs, 
frequency regs, etc.

The OOPIC has 4 8-bit A/D converters, useful for hooking analog things to, 
then routing the digital value to the SID - selectable from the panel and 
sent to filter, frequency, waveform selector, pulse width setting, etc. 
Can't do any of that as easily with the SID chip stuck in its C64...


>From: "John L Marshall" <john.l.marshall at gte.net>
>
>The "Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide" has 25 pages dedicated to
>the 6581SID.
>
>I am unclear as to why people are building dedicated single board computers
>to control the SID. A single board computer already exists with plenty of
>RAM, ROM and I/O. The processor is a popular but mature 8 bit type and it 
>is
>easy to program. This single board has enough speed and power to program 
>the
>6581 in realtime.The addition of MIDI I/O has already been done. I'm 
>talking
>about the Commodore 64. Cheap and plentiful.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: John Lamb <jlamb3 at nc.rr.com>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 12:53 PM
>Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard
>resources
>
>
> > "Andrew Martens" <amartens at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote on 8/27/01 9:42:19
>PM:
> >
> > >That reminds me, I need to get to work on my SID synth again...
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >Andrew Martens
> >
> > I'm interested in doing something similar -- If you could point me 
>towards
>some good 6581 documentation I
> > would be much obliged.
> >
> > Thanks
> > John Lamb
> >

+_+_Yes, honey, I know there are 25 boxes of electronic junk cluttering up 
the attic. They will, one day, magically be transformed into a modular 
synthesizer cluttering up the attic.... www.mp3.com/OriginalSimulacrum _+_+



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Aug 28 22:45:03 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:45:03 -0700
Subject: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
References: <MWMail.hthlsglq@host.none> <003601c12ff3$6edcb140$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <001d01c12ffc$1a60cc60$125776d5@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <000701c13002$50fe5e80$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

No! I was thinking of taking a Commodore 64 and stripping away all of the
unnecessary junk. Throw out the tube, the tape, the disk, the keyboard, all
that stuff. Use the C64 as a SBC. Reprogram it with your favorite language.
It's got 64K of RAM, plenty. There are three ROM's; two 2764's (2364A) and a
2732 (2332A). Chomp the ROM's out and install sockets. There is lots of I/O.
Use the cassette interface with opto-isolator for MIDI. There are two 5626
interface chips for all of the controls that you would ever want to add.

You could use rotary digital encoders for input and a serial LCD panel for
output.

 I suppose that the address lines could be lifted and an address buffer
could be added without too much pain. Keeping digital signals separate from
analog signals is necessary. Use a "common point ground".

I once built a synthesizer using Walsh functions. Talk about noise. Keep the
digital separate from the analog.

By the way, somewhere I have a resistor coefficient table for summing Walsh
values to the sine wave harmonic series. I will dig it up if someone is
interested.


----- Original Message -----
From: Luc Van Den Bosch <luc.ky at pandora.be>
To: John L Marshall <john.l.marshall at gte.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard
resources


> But .... the C64 has a VERY noisy output which makes it unusable in a
> musicians setup.
> I did once (about 10 years ago or so) use the C64 for making sounds, wrote
> some assembler code to play the SID from the C64 keyboard, i know what I'm
> talking about.
> Even connecting the ground of the C64's audio output to my mixer system
put
> the digital noise on top of the output of the mixer.
> That's imho why everyone (including me) is building a dedicated single
board
> computer to control it.
> The SID station for instance uses latches on the adress-bus of the SID to
> minimise adress-bus noise bleeding to the SID's output while the
> microprocessor is adressing some other stuff (like keyboard, display).
> Another good reason might be that the C64 with it's disk drive and
> CRT-display is a rather ponderous thing to move to a gig.
>
> Luc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John L Marshall <john.l.marshall at gte.net>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:58 PM
> Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard
> resources
>
>
> > The "Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide" has 25 pages dedicated
to
> > the 6581SID.
> >
> > I am unclear as to why people are building dedicated single board
> computers
> > to control the SID. A single board computer already exists with plenty
of
> > RAM, ROM and I/O. The processor is a popular but mature 8 bit type and
it
> is
> > easy to program. This single board has enough speed and power to program
> the
> > 6581 in realtime.The addition of MIDI I/O has already been done. I'm
> talking
> > about the Commodore 64. Cheap and plentiful.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Lamb <jlamb3 at nc.rr.com>
> > To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 12:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard
> > resources
> >
> >
> > > "Andrew Martens" <amartens at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote on 8/27/01
9:42:19
> > PM:
> > >
> > > >That reminds me, I need to get to work on my SID synth again...
> > > >
> > > >Cheers,
> > > >Andrew Martens
> > >
> > > I'm interested in doing something similar -- If you could point me
> towards
> > some good 6581 documentation I
> > > would be much obliged.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John Lamb
> > >
> >
>
>



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Tue Aug 28 23:02:39 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:02:39 +0200
Subject: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
In-Reply-To: <002101c12fda$c6cbb720$71765140@speakeasy.net>
References: <200108281525.f7SFPjK03324@smtp008pub.verizon.net>
	<002101c12fda$c6cbb720$71765140@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20010828230239C.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1 at airmail.net>
Subject: Re: OT Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:01:59 -0500

> 17yrs, I think

I think you can extend it to 20, but on the other hand, if you do not
pay the maintainance fees, you may loose it earlier! That is however
just from the top of my head.

Those interested in US Patents should dig into:

http://www.uspto.gov/

I think this page serves as a good index:
http://www.uspto.gov/main/patents.htm

One thing to check is the costs:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/1999/fee20001001.htm

One should also check out the European and National rules if you want
to be picky.

Patents can be hairpulling if you need to apply for them or have to
deal with them in the buissness world. More importantly, for a DIYer
they can be a very rewarding source of information, especially now
with modern search engines and all that.

Cheers,
Magnus - have my name on a fair amount of patents...



From jhaible at t-online.de  Tue Aug 28 23:08:22 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:08:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
References: <E15b1RR-000F3D-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net> <000901c12e65$09285fa0$b0f59e3e@debitel.net> <3B8A62A5.63BB2B94@cityweb.de> <001901c12fe1$dfd1cbe0$1e94c6c3@RA> <002c01c12ff1$66003d00$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <000601c13013$dbd0f160$c07be03e@debitel.net>


> One solution that I have used is to use normal log taper pots but use a
knob
> with numbers printed on a skirt.
>
> Use a hole saw to make a plastic skirt for your favorite knob. Print your
> legend clockwise around the edge of the plastic (0 through 10) clockwise.
> Glue the skirt to the back or your knob.
>
> The natural inclination will be to turn the knob counter-clockwise to
> increase value.

Ha, look at Schulte's solution on his Compact A Phaser: Using ordinary
numbers, but calling the LFO Rate knob "Period". (;->)

JH.




From Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 23:17:20 2001
From: Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk (Lincoln Fong)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:17:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Message-ID: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFAEIHCHAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>

> advantage over electronic means is the ground isolation of a transformer.
>

>>did you have a favorite transformer you were using that you could maybe
>>let slip a part number on?

I used a Sowter 3575 because it's high quality (0.25 dB from 15Hz to 60kHz
so it says), in a mumetal can and cheap (?25 plus tax and shipping). It's
also 1:1 input/output so if you drive it from the output of a desk or other
line level device you're in the right ballpark to feed an amp if you use a
pot. If you were to use a mic input transformer you might end up too
loud/overloading.

If I was in the US I'd probably get one from Jensen or similar. I don't
think ultra fidelity is paramount here. <flame suit on!>

Lincoln



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Tue Aug 28 23:29:37 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:29:37 +0200
Subject: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard
 resources
In-Reply-To: <003601c12ff3$6edcb140$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
References: <MWMail.hthlsglq@host.none>
	<003601c12ff3$6edcb140$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <20010828232937Z.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "John L Marshall" <john.l.marshall at gte.net>
Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:58:31 -0700

> The "Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide" has 25 pages dedicated to
> the 6581SID.
> 
> I am unclear as to why people are building dedicated single board computers
> to control the SID. A single board computer already exists with plenty of
> RAM, ROM and I/O. The processor is a popular but mature 8 bit type and it is
> easy to program. This single board has enough speed and power to program the
> 6581 in realtime.The addition of MIDI I/O has already been done. I'm talking
> about the Commodore 64. Cheap and plentiful.

Indeed. Ask for one and get a pair on the side!

There are quite alot of them around. I still have mine around BTW and
no, It's not for sale.

Cheers,
Magnus - got started on the C64



From 104065.2340 at compuserve.com  Tue Aug 28 23:37:29 2001
From: 104065.2340 at compuserve.com (Terry Michaels)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:37:29 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Pot Sources
Message-ID: <200108281737_MC3-DDF1-CE08@compuserve.com>

Message text written by "Tim Curtis"
>Hi Everyone - 

I'm currently building up a few Polyfusion modules from NOS parts, but I
don't know of a good source for pots for these.  

I've got some old Allen Bradley Type J's, but I don't have enough for all
the modules.  Buying the same type of thing new is awfully expensive.  

Does anyone have a recommendation for a source of a more economical
solution that will fit the same holes?

Thanks,


Tim
<

Hi Tim:

The Clarostat RV4NAY conductive plastic pots are physically the same as the
Type J hot-molded carbon pots, but about half the cost.  The current Newark
catalog has them at $9.21 each.

Terry Michaels


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Tue Aug 28 23:58:59 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:58:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
Message-ID: <20010828235859S.cfmd@swipnet.se>

Dear all,

I constantly hear people looking for this and that chip, but have a
hard time finding it. Since we are all more or less into the mad
scientist level, it is just logical that we eventually will go for the
Chip-DIY trend.

Here is only one place to look:
http://www.universitywafer.com/

There's more...

Actually, I'm not very serious about this... but if we only pretend
for a moment, just how much stuff would be necessary for a not overly
complex analog design, say up to 20-40 transistors, about the equalent
numbers or resistors and a few caps and a bunch of diodes. I think
I've heard the voices (keyboards actually) of a few sufficiently
knowledgeable people.

Sure, there are some pretty hefty chemicals in use...

But if someone think he could spare a garage-place and has been pretty
lucky in both gamble and love (I think an understanding wife is
required if one has one).

But anyway, it would be fun to just pick up some of the knowledge in
this field! Please speak up!

Cheers,
Magnus - has no spare space, no spare money and no wife



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Wed Aug 29 00:41:49 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:41:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
References: <20010828235859S.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <002c01c13012$a0eb3c00$9769073e@paul>

Magnus,

> I constantly hear people looking for this and that chip, but have a
> hard time finding it. Since we are all more or less into the mad
> scientist level, it is just logical that we eventually will go for the
> Chip-DIY trend.
> Here is only one place to look:
> http://www.universitywafer.com/

You know Ive thought about his.. ok not rolling my own, but getting some
made...
The only problem is the cost :-(

What you need is some friendly Uni with a bunch of students who are doing
this stuff who could say "hey, why not try this on a chip?" and see what
happens!

Maybe one day, I'll be able to roll my own Moog ladder chips, VCA chips, and
VCADSR chips...
one day...

Paul
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From cyborgzero at home.com  Wed Aug 29 01:02:41 2001
From: cyborgzero at home.com (Rob B)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:02:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
References: <20010828235859S.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <005c01c13015$8bc6e9c0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>

Oh my god!! Geek hell!!!

HAHA!!

It *does* look very interesting though.. I mean, most books I have read
lately all say that in the future, the only way to make money will be to own
a small home factory with doing ultimately customizable one offs for each
customer. Where the economy started with 1-2 man operations, then progressed
to million man operations, so shall it again fall back to 1-2 man operations
when technology catches up. This is a harbinger of the *real* new economy,
not that virtual crap all the silly ppl threw money at (okay, ill admit, i
was tempted)

No storage, no warehousing, very little wait, no overhead to speak of, just
great products in exactly the functionality, colors and schemes the customer
wants.

Maybe I smoked some bad stuff in my heydey too, but, who knows for sure..
hehe.

So, in this new barter system/small scale economy, who wants to be the town
chipsmithy? hehe. Im already the plastics parts/machining smithy.

aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
----- Original Message -----
From: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:58 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your
own!


> Dear all,
>
> I constantly hear people looking for this and that chip, but have a
> hard time finding it. Since we are all more or less into the mad
> scientist level, it is just logical that we eventually will go for the
> Chip-DIY trend.
>
> Here is only one place to look:
> http://www.universitywafer.com/
>
> There's more...
>
> Actually, I'm not very serious about this... but if we only pretend
> for a moment, just how much stuff would be necessary for a not overly
> complex analog design, say up to 20-40 transistors, about the equalent
> numbers or resistors and a few caps and a bunch of diodes. I think
> I've heard the voices (keyboards actually) of a few sufficiently
> knowledgeable people.
>
> Sure, there are some pretty hefty chemicals in use...
>
> But if someone think he could spare a garage-place and has been pretty
> lucky in both gamble and love (I think an understanding wife is
> required if one has one).
>
> But anyway, it would be fun to just pick up some of the knowledge in
> this field! Please speak up!
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus - has no spare space, no spare money and no wife
>
>



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Wed Aug 29 01:12:28 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:12:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll
 your own!
In-Reply-To: <002c01c13012$a0eb3c00$9769073e@paul>
References: <20010828235859S.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<002c01c13012$a0eb3c00$9769073e@paul>
Message-ID: <20010829011228B.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Paul Maddox" <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:41:49 +0100

> Magnus,

Paul,

> > I constantly hear people looking for this and that chip, but have a
> > hard time finding it. Since we are all more or less into the mad
> > scientist level, it is just logical that we eventually will go for the
> > Chip-DIY trend.
> > Here is only one place to look:
> > http://www.universitywafer.com/
> 
> You know Ive thought about his.. ok not rolling my own, but getting some
> made...
> The only problem is the cost :-(

Indeed.

> What you need is some friendly Uni with a bunch of students who are doing
> this stuff who could say "hey, why not try this on a chip?" and see what
> happens!

Indeed. Actually, the UNI I went to (and BTW is still registered as a
student for) has a lab which seems to get pretty upgraded. I used to
work in the same building but for another institution (eh... yeah, I
worked for the Uni more time than I actually tried to study, now at a
startup springing from that place).

I just wonder how hard it would be to get a little more practical
coarse on how to do it.

> Maybe one day, I'll be able to roll my own Moog ladder chips, VCA chips, and
> VCADSR chips...
> one day...

Indeed. Don't forget to sell some ;O)

<here is a place-holder for Paul S. to plug in for his friend Curtis>

Cheers,
Magnus



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Wed Aug 29 01:29:12 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:29:12 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll
 your own!
In-Reply-To: <005c01c13015$8bc6e9c0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>
References: <20010828235859S.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<005c01c13015$8bc6e9c0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010829012912F.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Rob B" <cyborgzero at home.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:02:41 -0500

> Oh my god!! Geek hell!!!
> 
> HAHA!!

Hehehe.... I have a dark side...

For those who is interested in testing tools for chip-design, you can
check out Electric which is under GPL. There is a programme for
allowing uni's accessing various chip-fabs for research-jobs.

We need to research on the Moog ladder in GaAs, SiGe and InP ;O)

> It *does* look very interesting though.. I mean, most books I have read
> lately all say that in the future, the only way to make money will be to own
> a small home factory with doing ultimately customizable one offs for each
> customer. Where the economy started with 1-2 man operations, then progressed
> to million man operations, so shall it again fall back to 1-2 man operations
> when technology catches up. This is a harbinger of the *real* new economy,
> not that virtual crap all the silly ppl threw money at (okay, ill admit, i
> was tempted)
> 
> No storage, no warehousing, very little wait, no overhead to speak of, just
> great products in exactly the functionality, colors and schemes the customer
> wants.
> 
> Maybe I smoked some bad stuff in my heydey too, but, who knows for sure..
> hehe.
> 
> So, in this new barter system/small scale economy, who wants to be the town
> chipsmithy? hehe. Im already the plastics parts/machining smithy.

Hmm... interesting twist actually! But the reason for my questions
where to try to shake out some knowledge about what stuff is actually
needed. Since I was thinking of pretty large features (by todays
measures) leftover equipment should be available for feasable
prices.. if one would dare that is.

Just building oneself a point-transistor should be both possible and
rewarding ;O)

Cheers,
Magnus



From c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz  Wed Aug 29 02:02:12 2001
From: c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz (clowndog)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:02:12 +1200
Subject: [sdiy] Pot Sources
References: <200108281737_MC3-DDF1-CE08@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <009a01c1301d$e3d95320$ed6cb4ca@clowndog>

I know this dude who can sell all the pot u need

ill hook u up

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Michaels" <104065.2340 at compuserve.com>
To: "Tim Curtis" <sexsymbol at execpc.com>; "synth"
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:37 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Pot Sources


> Message text written by "Tim Curtis"
> >Hi Everyone -
>
> I'm currently building up a few Polyfusion modules from NOS parts, but I
> don't know of a good source for pots for these.
>
> I've got some old Allen Bradley Type J's, but I don't have enough for all
> the modules.  Buying the same type of thing new is awfully expensive.
>
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a source of a more economical
> solution that will fit the same holes?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Tim
> <
>
> Hi Tim:
>
> The Clarostat RV4NAY conductive plastic pots are physically the same as
the
> Type J hot-molded carbon pots, but about half the cost.  The current
Newark
> catalog has them at $9.21 each.
>
> Terry Michaels
>



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Aug 29 02:29:33 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:29:33 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010829002933.0086c0a8@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 06:52 PM 28/08/01 +0200, Torbj?rn wrote:

>With a reference to an article in Elektor? Is it possible to bend a linear
>pot to reverse log taper with the addition of a few resistors?
>
Search google for "the secret life of pots"
which you can also get to from www.firebottle.com/ampage
fx bulletin board opening screen (I think via 'geofex')

Does putting a resistor across one side of a linear B pot give a reverse log? 
Not exactly, but a reverse log pot off the shelf is an approximation too.

paul perry melbourne australia.



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Aug 29 02:29:35 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:29:35 +1000
Subject: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy]
  keyboard resources
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010829002935.0086738c@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 11:58 AM 28/08/01 -0700, ohn L Marshall wrote:

>I am unclear as to why people are building dedicated single board computers
>to control the SID. A single board computer already exists with plenty of
>RAM, ROM and I/O. The processor is a popular but mature 8 bit type and it is
>easy to program. This single board has enough speed and power to program the
>6581 in realtime.The addition of MIDI I/O has already been done. I'm talking
>about the Commodore 64. Cheap and plentiful.
>
One word..... KNOBS!!!!!!

paul perry (Frostwave) Melbourne Australia



From CCartCat at aol.com  Wed Aug 29 03:12:04 2001
From: CCartCat at aol.com (CCartCat at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:12:04 EDT
Subject: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
Message-ID: <141.ae0eb7.28bd9b64@aol.com>

I've prob. posted this info before, but FWIW just in case--info on C64 
software for the MIDI control of the SID chip.  I've used it a bit a couple 
years ago--funky, fun, free.

Kevin
++++++++++++++++++++++
TRIAD MIDISLAVE MANAGER V1.1


This helpfile contains:

1. What is the Triad Midislave Manager?
2. Getting started
3. The main menu
4. The MIDI-mode screen
  a. Channel
  b. Transpose
  c. Programme
  d. Concate
5. The sound editor
  a. Sound Number
  b. Name
  c. Definition
  d. Pulsewidth
  e. CTRL-byte
  f. Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release
  g. Macro speed
  h. Fixed note
  i. Pitching
  j. Vibrato
  k. Pulse vibrato
  l. Filters
  m. Macro definition
6. Loading and saving sounds
7. Upgrade, and the future of this program
8. Known bugs
9. Technical notes
10. Thanks to...
11. Address


1. What is the triad midislave manager?

So, you've just recieved this program right? OK. If you've got a DATEL /
Siel+JMS / Passport or Sequential MIDI-interface (or compatible) and a 
keyboard
or sequencer, you're a real lucky person.
  The whole idea of the midislave started way back in 1992, some late night in
Ljungby, while I visited my good friend Hans Axelsson (that is: TDM of TRIAD)
and we discussed the matter of 64-sounds. We talked about rerecording some of
TDM's old 64-songs with our MIDI-equipment, but as we had tried it before, we
knew the tunes never sounded the same after being transfered from the original
note-script to the MIDI-sequencer. Ofcourse there was nothing wrong with our
sequencer, it was the sounds that lacked.
  So I said: "Look, I'll construct a program that reads the MIDI-bus and
replays the notes with the SID-chip. That should not be too hard."
  Now I've done it, and the "Triad Midislave Manager" is the result. And now I
release it for the market. You can finger your keyboard, and there will be
sounds flowing out of your C64. Isn't that just wounderful? All of you who 
have
ever dreamed about using the C64 sounds in MIDI-arrangements, playing live on
your 64 or just play around with it - this is the program you need. Share and
enjoy!
  Since I believe "Intellectual Property" (ie Copyright) to be equal to theft
from our common legacy of information, this program is released as freeware.
Releasing it as freeware also gives me the opportunity to use rude language in
the program and this documentation without having to worry about sensitive
customers, and also free me from any duties in maintaining the code and making
the users happy. Yes, it is supplied on what we call an "as-is" basis. If you
want me to implement new features and remove bugs, all you have to do is to 
ask
me nicely, and perhaps I will do it. I make no promises whatsoever, because I
don't WANT you to believe there is some market-sensitive organization behind
this program, it's just me.
  I will not supply you with any standard disclaimers or legal bullshit, so 
sue
me if you think this program has made damage to your equipment or software. 
Any
court would believe you to be brain-damaged if you think you can nail a
freeware producer for supplying bad software. I assure you this program is not
a Trojan Horse.


2. Getting started

Switch off your computer, insert your MIDI-interface, switch it on again. Then
load and run the midislave software. As soon as the midislave main menu is on
the screen, your 64 is reading the MIDI-bus for incoming commands. When the
menu is lit, turn on your keyboard. If you can't connect the MIDI-interface
with the keyboard, the problem is likely one of the following:
  a. Your keyboard doesn't have a MIDI-port. You should have thought about 
this
before you bought you keyboard. Sorry to say this, but your keyboard is pure
crap.
  b. You have not understood the VERY simple concept of MIDI-interconnections,
which means, you should connect a cable from MIDI OUT on your keyboard, to 
MIDI
IN on your MIDI-interface. If you can't see what's IN OUT and THRU on your
interface, LOOK ON THE BACK OF IT!
  c. There is something wrong with your equipment. Highly unlikely. It's
probably your fault instead.
  Once you've got this far, things will hopefully solve themselves. Set the
presets, go into MIDI mode, finger your keyboard and... Voila!


3. The main menu

This is your command control centre. You can choose to enter MIDI-mode, the
sound editor or to load or save your sounds. Quite self explaining with the
exception for "Presets" described below. Oh, and by the way: you can't use 
your
joystick to choose from this menu. And you never will. This is a tool, not a
fucking game.
  The preset section: This is where you select your MIDI-interface type. Press
+/- to change interface type (3 in all) and RETURN when finished. The
configuration is written to disk and the program is restarted with the new
interface configuration. I only know about these three Interface types thanks
to Frank Prindle who wrote a schematic for an interface, which is published on
Internet and available if you look around for it. I haven't tested the program
with any other interface than DATEL / Siel+JMS, so I can't assure you it will
work with the other types.If you have some other interface, please tell me!
  In case you absolutely need it, you can hack the configuration yourself 
using
a machine-code monitor. Load the file called "-PROGRAM SETUP-" to $1000 and
edit the adresses used for Control, Transmit, Status, Receive, Reset and
Enable. The first four values are adresses to the 6850 chip and the 2 last
values are the byte-values being poked to the command register at startup.
Doing this requires knowledge of the 6850 chip configuration used by your
interface, something you could perhaps find out by hacking the software
distributed along with the interface. If you have an interface which doesn't
use the 6850 chip then WOW!, I've never seen such a thing... Almost all MIDI-
equipment use the 6850. The Triad Midislave can't handle any other hardware.
Sorry.


4. The MIDI-mode screen

This is where the tricky things start. You can see a screen saying "Triad
Midislave Manager" and some lines of text. Is this all there is? Yes. This is 
a
sound program, not a graphics program.
  Keys you can use in this mode are:

  +/- To increase/decrease option
  Arrows up/down To choose option
  Run/Stop to return to the Main menu
  CTRL To shortcut to the sound editor

The meanings of the different options are:
  a. Channel. This is the number of the MIDI-channel the midislave is 
currently
reading. Valid figures are 01 thru 10 (hexadecimal) which gives you access to
all 16 MIDI-channels. If you don't know hex numbers: LEARN!
  b. Transpose. Here you can transpose all played notes by a desired number of
halfnotes. Again in hex. You can also antitranspose using the same method. For
example +0C = up one octave, -0C = down one octave.
  c. Programme. This is the number of the current sound. Valid figures are 01
thru 80, which makes a total of 128 different sounds, as on any good sound
module. I've given you the possibility to see the decimal number of the sound
here. Mainly because many keyboards and sequencers don't use hex... (Even
though I think they should!)
  d. Concate. As you already know, the C64 has got only 3 voices, and you
simply can't do anything about that. This option tells the midislave how to
handle a situation where you press more than three keys at a time. If you have
CONCATE=YES, the notes you pressed first will be kicked out and replaced with
the newer ones. If you WANT the midislave to lock up the three first pressed,
not yet released keys, set CONCATE=NO. There is a simple way of avoiding all
this trouble: don't press more than three keys at a time. However, piano-
maniacs have a strange habit of doing so.
  These are all options and keys on this screen really. There is aswell some
text in the windows giving you information that you might be interested in
during play. If you don't understand this (very simple) information, then just
forget about it and pretend it isn't there.


5. The sound editor

Phew, this is the heavy one. (Had to put on som coffe here, recommend Zoegas
Sk?nerost.) Again you can press Run/Stop to reach the main menu, and CTRL to
shortcut to MIDI-mode. You can press Home to get home, and CLR to clear the
whole sound. (Careful!) I will state the rest of the options line by line:
  a. Sound number. Here you choose the sound you want to edit. Key in the 
sound
number (in hex ofcourse) or use +/-. Very simple, really.
  b. Name. State/Edit the name of the current sound. Valid keys are all 
letters
and numbers, space and Inst/Del.
  c. Definition. You can't alter this one. I had some idea of making a
monophonic mode where you could only play one note at a time, using macros on
all three channels with ring modulation and such funny stuff. But I've not 
done
that yet. Maybe in the future, V3.0 or so of midislave.
  d. Pulsewidth. If you're using pulse sounds (P-bit set in the CTRL-byte) you
state the pulsewidth of that wave here. A value of around $800 is recommended
for beginners. You can enter the digits directly or use +/-.
  e. CTRL-byte. This byte tells you the main characteristics of your sound. If
you are familiar with C64 sound editors you will easily understand this one. 
It
is in hex, and you can key in the digits one by one. Since the gate bit -MUST-
be set, you can only enter odd numbers here. Easiest way to experiment: use 
+/-
. Beginners should use values of $41, $21 or $11 to get some decent sounds. To
the right you've got a binary representation of the CTRL-byte, so you can
easily see which bits are set. Soundwizards tend to develop a "fingertip" 
sense
for these bits.
  f. Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release. Those four lines make up the velocity
(volume) curve of your sound. If you don't understand it, look it up in any
synthesizer book or the C64 programmers reference manual. Or just play around
with them until it sounds good. General rule: avoid big figures on "Attack" 
and
don't set "Decay" to 0.
  g. Macro speed. Use +/- to select the macro speed. That is: how often the
crap at the bottom of the screen should step up by one, unless the end is
reached. A frame is a fiftieth of a second, which equals, for exaple: "4 Per
frame" means the macro is updated every 1/200th of a second. The normal is
"Every frame".
  h. Fixed note. If you're making, for example, lasers or drum-sounds, this 
one
will be useful. If you've chosen a certain note here, the keyboard will always
trigger THAT note, unregarding which key was pressed. Use +/- to select note,
or DEL to disconnect this option.
  i. Pitching. This defines the influence the pitch wheel will have on the
notes you're playing. You can pitch by halfnote, note, half octave or full
octave. (Not bad eh?) Thanks to Fredrik Sch?n (best swede at the computer
olympics in Stockholm) for sketching the interpolation algorithm for me in a
few minutes. Again press DEL to disconnect.
  j. Vibrato. DEL disconnects. Pressing "A" gives you a fixed amplitude, a
certain speed divisor (relative to the macro speed) and a "Delay-before-
vibrato" value to play around with. You can't use +/- here, sorry. But there 
is
more! Press "W" and you can control the vibrato with a definable wheel on you
keyboard! (Most keyboards use Wheel $02 "Modulation" for this.
  k. Pulse vibrato. Works exactly as the above, just that you can't set any
delay for the vibrato. And that the wheel actually don't control the amplitude
of the vibrato, it rather controls THE pulsewidth. (Pink Floyd used that kind
of effects a lot on their "Wish you were here" album).
  l. Filters. Here you choose the filter settings. Here it is a lot easier to
understand what happens than with most other sound editors. TYP sets the type
of filter you use. Use +/- to select. LP means Lowpass, HP = highpass, BP =
bandpass and NC = Notch filter. The lowpass cuts the higher overtones 
(treble),
the highpass cuts the bass, the bandpass cuts both treble and bass (like a 
Wah-
wah) and the notch cuts a certain interval. The frequency determining the 
-20dB
threshold can be set with the FRQ value. The frequency will be something like
5,8*FRQ(Decimal)+30 Hz. (You need a calculator for that.) The low and higpass
filters attenuates by 12 dB per octave while bandpass and notchfilters
attenuates by 6 dB per octave. The resonance nibble will peak the frequency
nearest the threshold to make the cutoff sound sharper. But it sounds like
distorsion really. (Useful as such too) If you don't understand a shit of 
this,
don't bother. Only us electronic phreaks really bother. Play around with it,
and you'll soon enogh have that "fingertip" sense for these values. Sorry for
not implementing wheel reading on the filter - YET.
  m. Macro definition. Unless you have a value of $FE in the first position
here, these steps will be gone through as described under "Macro speed" above.
You can change CTRL-byte, transposing and filtervalue (low byte) for each step
of the macro. You can use up to $46 different steps here, and either loop 
($FF)
or end ($FE) the macro after these. You have the option of reseting the Gate
bit (bit 0 of the CTRL-register) in order to create certain effects, but be
careful! It might make your sound sound "instable". A funny way of using the
transpose value is to make "Arpeggio", which is: playing chords with 
monophonic
instruments. The theory behind this is very simple (skip this if you don't
understand at least a little bit of musical theory): your keyboard consists of
12 different notes: C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# and B, in different octaves.
(Warning, most NORMAL musicians often use Eb instead of D#, Ab instead of G#
and Bb instead of A#.) These twelve notes can be combined into different
harmonies known as CHORDS. For example the Emajor-chord, consisting of the
tones E, G# and B (known as TONIC, TIERCE and QUINT in music theory), of which
E is usually played in the lowest pitch. To make this chord, assume that the
user will press the E-key on the keyboard, and call that note 0. The first
transpose value (step 01) should then also be $00. Then you want to play G#. 
G#
is 4 halftones higher than E, so the next transpose value (step 02), you set 
it
to $04. The last tone, B, is 7 halftones higher in pitch than E, why you set
the last transpose value (step 03) to $07. (Pay attention to that we are
referring to the lowest note (in this case E) all the way.) To create a
complete arpeggio you should the loop this macro by putting a value of $FF 
into
the last position (step 04). When E is triggered, all three notes will be
played ONE AT THE TIME, and then restared, and that will sound lika a chord or
some kind of. The funny thing about this is, that whatever key you press, the
midislave will produce a major chord with that key as tonic (the chord main
note). For most major and minor 3-tone chords the values of the transposemacro
will most often be 047 for major and 037 for minor chords, but as you see,
every chord can be calculated, even jazz if you like. Now, try to put G# as 
the
lowest pitch and move E up one octave. Assuming G# is pressed on the keyboard,
the transposemacro will be 038. Put B as the lowest and move both E and G# up
one octave, and assuming the user pressed B, the macro will be 059. Those 
three
variations of any 3-note chord, are known as VOICINGS. You can use them to
colorize your music. (Why don't they ever tell you these things in the
instructions for common 64-musicprograms?) Quick rundown: Major chord: 047, 
038
or 059 - Minor chord: 037, 049 or 058, 047 and 037 are easiest to handle, when
you use 038 or 049 arpeggio you must press the tierce of the chord to play the
proper chord, and with 059 or 058 chords you will have to press the quint of
the chord you want to produce. (Easy, yes?)


6. Loading and saving sounds

To load or save the soundfile, press these alternatives on the main menu. If
there is already a soundfile on the disk, it will be scratched and replaced
with the new one. Please note that commands (ie. program changes) sent during
load or save will not be recognized. This occurs due to the reading of the
MIDI-bus being switched off during load and save. (Disk routines in the ROM
uses timing, and don't want to get interfered with.) This doesn't mean I 
forbid
you to play while loading or saving, just that funny things could happen if 
you
do so. Things might hook up, due to the asynchronus realtime nature of the
MIDI-protocol.


7. Upgrade, and the future of this program

If somebody else want to be involved in the evolution of this program, please
contact me. Also I DEMAND you to fill bug reports and send them to me. That's
the only thing you have to do. Or just PLEASE send a postcard telling me 
you're
using this program, just so I know there's somebody out there. If you send me 
a
disk, preferably containing your private sound-file, (so I can implement new,
nice sounds in coming releases) I will send you the next version as soon as it
is finished. Address at the end of this text.


8. Known bugs

Don't report these bugs:
  a. Sometimes when you shortcut to the soundeditor from MIDI-mode the sound
number goes -1 realtive to the last used.
  b. Notes sometimes "hook up" in the slave mode. (Solution: Use
Sustain/Release=00 sounds if it bothers you (and it does))
  c. Pitch doesn't work on chord, just affects the last note.
  d. Author is sometimes very arrogant in the documentation.
  e. Misspellings in the documentation.


9. Technical notes

Triad Midislave Manager uses memory from $0801 to $f000 with a few glitches.
The MIDI bus is read by an $00f0-speed divisor NMI interrupt running all the
time except during load and save. The MIDI-mode section runs with the ROM
disconnected. The scales used for generating notes are NOT equally-tempered
since that sounds crap, but rather tempered like a normal piano or keyboard.
This documentation is written in Microsoft works on the PC and trasfered using
a vert smart RTF-file converter by me called GNYLF V1.1 (get it!). Your MIDI-
interface uses the 6850 ACIA (Asynchronus Communications Interface Adapter)
chip, the same as is used in the Atari ST(e) computers. The midislave has been
tested with Casio VZ-1, Roland D-50, Kawai K4 and Ensoniq SQ2 keyboards and
with Roland stand alone, Cubase 2.0, 2.01, 3.0 and Cakewalk pro sequencers. 
And
it worked out fine. The author used Zoegas coffe, Black Dog Productions, Pink
Floyd, Hawkwind, The Prodigy and various collections of trance music to get 
by.


10. Thanks to...

TDM / TRIAD (Hans Axelsson) for all hints and betatesting.
STORMBRINGER / ONYX (Fredrik Sch?n) for algorithmic help.
CHRIS / ONYX (Christian Luddeckens) for lending of Midicables and keyboards.
ANDERS VON HOFFSTEN for lending me his Ensoniq SQ2 Keyboard.
DANE / TRIAD for cheering me up. (I will do 100% work on the demo now, I
promise)
JERRY / TRIAD for the patience.
MOTLEY / G*P for always being such a happy and nice person.
TWOFLOWER / TRIAD for liking this program.
FRANK PRINDLE in the States for publishing the MIDI-interface schematic on
Internet.
STEVE COWAN in Canada for support
and YOU for using and spreading this program!


11. Address

If you want to report bugs, complain about something or everything, swap
software, music, coffe or swedish poetry and short-stories, if you just want 
to
make me glad, please write to:

King Fisher / TRIAD
Linus Walleij
Magistratsv?gen 55 N:306
226 44 LUND
SWEDEN
Fone: +46(0)41868513
E-mail: triad at df.lth.se, linus.walleij at microbus.se
Homepage: http://www.df.lth.se/~triad/
Usenet: comp.sys.cbm or alt.fan.hofstadter
(But the extropian netnerds on Usenet really piss me off from time to time.)

And remember: We are all a part of the inevitable...


From amartens at interchange.ubc.ca  Wed Aug 29 03:51:48 2001
From: amartens at interchange.ubc.ca (Andrew Martens)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:51:48 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Re: MIDI controlled SID
References: <1.5.4.32.20010829002935.0086738c@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <003901c1302d$331bb540$183e4418@vc.shawcable.net>

Shoot, I guess I forgot to post the URL to my SID synthesizer project to the
list.  It's since changed a bit, but the basic idea was the same:  front
panel controls (knobs and switches, oh yeah) for as many of the SID's
parameters as possible.  The initial version was going to max out the 16F877
with MIDI, 8 pots, and a bunch of switches, but I was thinking of linking up
a second unit via SPI or some such nonsense.

Anyways, the link to my project is http://www.ece.ubc.ca/~amartens/ - I've
since done some stuff like removing the Tactex touchpad, and... uh, well,
the project's been sitting there for months waiting for me to pick it up
again.  The firmware has been written and debugged in the simulator (though
that doesn't mean much in the real world), and is waiting to be dumped into
the breadboard.  The MIDI circuit is going to need some touching up (I don't
think it works), but the base control of the SID should be fine.  Also going
to put a buffer on the audio in/out of the SID for some measure of ESD
protection (which can apparently kill the SID very easily).

Once I have my SID synth working (it will be renamed from SIDgroove, that
was just temporary), I'll try to throw together some final schematics and
post them on the web.  At that point (or even now), if someone is interested
in producing a proper PCB for the project (and would provide me with one or
two), I'll donate my firmware and would be very happy to assist in
developing it.  Not sure if there's a market for small SID-based-synth kit
(due to their limited availability), but... well, it would be cool.

In an attempt to brag and make myself feel like a big, smart guy, I should
also note that this was using the touchpad before Bob Moog made public its
use in the Minimoog Voyager.  Guess I have to thank my prof (Sid Fels) for
that idea... though apparently he has chatted with Bob about it in the past.

The Tactex pad actually brings up a whole kettle of fish, and another
proposed project idea I had.  Looks like I'll start another thread with that
(assuming I can find the email that I wrote about a month ago).

Cheers,
Andrew Martens



From amartens at interchange.ubc.ca  Wed Aug 29 04:00:23 2001
From: amartens at interchange.ubc.ca (Andrew Martens)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:00:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] touchpad controller project, please read and respond
Message-ID: <006d01c1302e$5dae08c0$183e4418@vc.shawcable.net>

I would greatly appreciate it if you could take the time to read this and
respond (just respond to me privately - no need to copy to the list).
Within a few days or a week, I'll compile the feedback and let everybody
know how things stand for this project.  Okay, here we go:

Having done a bunch of reading up on Tactex's touchpads for a previous
project (my SID synthesizer almost used one to control the filter, but I
still haven't gotten around to finishing off the synth), I've been doing a
bit more thinking about them since I found out Bob Moog was using one in his
new synth.  That led me to contemplate a new project that may be of interest
to people on this list.

And so, I have a lot of questions regarding whether or not anyone would be
interested in this.  So please, reply to me privately with a "Yes, I would"
and other answers to the questions below - or a "No, I wouldn't"... and if
you do say no, if there is a specific reason why (ie, a feature missing
below), or if it's just not of interest to you.  This'll only take a minute
for you (and far longer for me to compile the results), so if you can find
it
in your heart to respond, that would be great :-)

I can't comment on pricing of the touchpads yet.  From talking to my
professor (through whom I dealt with Tactex), the prices sounded reasonable.
>From looking at the price on their website, I am starting to become far less
hopeful.  Far, far less.  If people on the list are interested, I will check
with Tactex about their OEM pricing.

(1) Would you be interested in:
(a) a touchpad->CV controller (ie, three CV outputs, one for X, Y, and
pressure);
(b) a touchpad->MIDI controller (selectable channel & message type for each
dimension);
(c) one controller that incorporated both (a) and (b);
(d) neither.  You can stop now and just send this back to me.  Tell me why,
if you aren't interested. :-)
(e) you have better ideas, like way more CV, and a bunch of cool controls to
save presets, morphing between different outputs, etc.  Feel free to
elaborate.

(2) Would you want to buy:
(a) a fully assembled unit, just give it a wallwart, plug'er in, and go;
(b) a kit, with PCB, preprogrammed microcontroller and an OEM (ie, no
case/cable) touchpad included;
(c) just PCB included (you buy your own consumer-level touchpad from Tactex
yourself for a ridiculous amount of money and connect it up via a serial
port, and I give away the firmware for the microcontroller for you to
program yourself)

(3) What size would you want the touchpad to be?
(a) a standard size, like the MTC Express's 5" x 3.75"
(b) (fill in your own size) __________________________

(4) What sorts of things would you like to be able to do with the touchpad:
(a) just track a single point (X, Y, and pressure)
(b) glide between multiple points on the pad (rate determined by a Glide
pot)
(c) (something else cool) __________________________

(5) What price would you be willing to pay for a PCB + OEM touchpad?
(If you're touchy/suspicious about this question, feel free to omit it).
I'll bring up the pricing issue again once I figure out what the OEM price
is for the touchpad size that I'm thinking of using for the design.
(a) (in US $, or your own currency - just specify what it is) _________

(5) Comments.  Ideas.  Suggestions.  How complete a MIDI implementation you
want.  Criticism.  Anything.

That's the survey.  I'm not really trying to make any money on this.  Maybe
get a free unit for myself, but that's about it.  In an ideal world, I'll
get an evaluation OEM pad from Tactex, develop a prototype schematic, write
some firmware for the thing, and get it working.  Then, someone with better
board-layout and design experience on this list could do a proper layout of
it.  Then, take some orders, print up some PCBs, get some touchpads, and
ship
them off to people.

So yeah... let me know what you think, and whether or not I should bother
building this.  I'll compile everyone's feedback into a final version of the
design and see how many people would be interested in ordering one, before I
actually get an OEM unit from Tactex and start building this.  And if you
take this idea and market it yourself... well, kudos to you for being a
shrewd businessperson.  I just like designing stuff :-)

Cheers,
Andrew Martens
4th year Computer Engineering student
University of British Columbia



From sbernardi at home.net  Wed Aug 29 04:02:09 2001
From: sbernardi at home.net (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:02:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your
 own!
References: <20010828235859S.cfmd@swipnet.se> <005c01c13015$8bc6e9c0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B8C4D21.3332E2B@home.net>

Gad, I would love to do my own custom chips.  Just a standard bipolar process
(that gives you the best analog performance, anyway); but even that has 7-8
layers. Even if you had a nifty program to do your component layout with,
there's still the cost to shrink and step-and-repeat to produce the masks, then
go through wafer fad, then saw the die apart, test and package.
Here's some simple stuff I'd start out with:


"Kit parts". These are standard geometry transistors in various sizes and
configurations that you could wire up to breadboard your design. Just use
regular 1% resistors and silver mica caps (integrated circuit resistors have a
20% tolerance, but match with 0.1 - 0.2%. Caps bigger than about 100pf are
impractical on ICs due to size).
Matched transistors; dual MAT nun's, and decent pap arrays up to quints (the
quads always have one missing when you want to do a current mirror with four
outputs to drive stages for a four pole filter!).
High quality temperature compensated exponential current sink/source.
Oat's
SSM2040 type filter, with gm stages independent so you can hook them into
whatever configuration you want.
VICARS


Rob B wrote:

> Oh my god!! Geek hell!!!
>
> HAHA!!
>
> It *does* look very interesting though.. I mean, most books I have read
> lately all say that in the future, the only way to make money will be to own
> a small home factory with doing ultimately customizable one offs for each
> customer. Where the economy started with 1-2 man operations, then progressed
> to million man operations, so shall it again fall back to 1-2 man operations
> when technology catches up. This is a harbinger of the *real* new economy,
> not that virtual crap all the silly ppl threw money at (okay, ill admit, i
> was tempted)
>
> No storage, no warehousing, very little wait, no overhead to speak of, just
> great products in exactly the functionality, colors and schemes the customer
> wants.
>
> Maybe I smoked some bad stuff in my heydey too, but, who knows for sure..
> hehe.
>
> So, in this new barter system/small scale economy, who wants to be the town
> chipsmithy? hehe. Im already the plastics parts/machining smithy.
>
> aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:58 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your
> own!
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I constantly hear people looking for this and that chip, but have a
> > hard time finding it. Since we are all more or less into the mad
> > scientist level, it is just logical that we eventually will go for the
> > Chip-DIY trend.
> >
> > Here is only one place to look:
> > http://www.universitywafer.com/
> >
> > There's more...
> >
> > Actually, I'm not very serious about this... but if we only pretend
> > for a moment, just how much stuff would be necessary for a not overly
> > complex analog design, say up to 20-40 transistors, about the equalent
> > numbers or resistors and a few caps and a bunch of diodes. I think
> > I've heard the voices (keyboards actually) of a few sufficiently
> > knowledgeable people.
> >
> > Sure, there are some pretty hefty chemicals in use...
> >
> > But if someone think he could spare a garage-place and has been pretty
> > lucky in both gamble and love (I think an understanding wife is
> > required if one has one).
> >
> > But anyway, it would be fun to just pick up some of the knowledge in
> > this field! Please speak up!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Magnus - has no spare space, no spare money and no wife
> >
> >

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at home.net




From ka4hjh at gte.net  Wed Aug 29 04:05:29 2001
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:05:29 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
In-Reply-To: <200108281634.JAA16341@shell9.ba.best.com>
References: <200108281634.JAA16341@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <p05100300b7b1c919e81c@[63.23.233.219]>

>   >>Guess every thing is patent-able in the US.
>
>Pretty much.  To their credit, there are no patents on perpetual
>motion machines.  :-)

There's been mention of this in the Skeptical literature lately. They don't
call them that anymore--there are new buzzwords like "free energy machines"
to obfuscate patent examiners and, more importantly, the gullible public.
Apparently there IS some bizarre stuff being patented these days, some of
it highly questionable.

Of related interest was the recent case of a fellow who was fired from the
US Patent Office. He claimed he was illegally discriminated against because
he's an activist for some sort of contemporary quackery (I'm sure he didn't
word it in quite those terms). He won his appeal and was reinstated. The
only hurdle to complete victory was that the ruling said that he was
discriminated against on the basis of "religious belief"--a minor setback
in his quest for _scientific_ recognition.
-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"It gets calls when nothing else works"--Walter Eugene Scott, EdD, somewhat
facetiously explaining why he, a "TV preacher", was smoking a cigar.


From shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca  Wed Aug 29 04:10:58 2001
From: shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca (Darren Reid)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:10:58 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
References: <20010828235859S.cfmd@swipnet.se><005c01c13015$8bc6e9c0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com> <20010829012912F.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <00ce01c1302f$df864780$bca1b3cf@nbnet.nb.ca>

"Magnus Danielson" <cfmd at swipnet.se> sez:

> Hmm... interesting twist actually! But the reason for my questions
> where to try to shake out some knowledge about what stuff is actually
> needed. Since I was thinking of pretty large features (by todays
> measures) leftover equipment should be available for feasable
> prices.. if one would dare that is.

Shake that tree...I wanna learn more about this too. 

-Darren


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 29 04:14:53 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 04:14:53 +0200
Subject: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
References: <1.5.4.32.20010829002935.0086738c@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <002f01c13030$63cb0ee0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Still think he got a point.
Interfacing knobs to a C64 is quite easy.
There are even 2 (or was it 4??) inputs for potmeters already there, the
game paddle connections.

On the other hand, the C64 has no midi, so you have to interface the midi
I/O.
If memory serves there is a small problem getting the correct baud-rate for
midi.
30.000 baud v.s. 31.250 like it is supposed to be.
Don't remember why this was, the CPU is 1mhz so this should be a suitable
clock source for the correct midi baud-rate.

Theo

From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>



> At 11:58 AM 28/08/01 -0700, ohn L Marshall wrote:
>
> >I am unclear as to why people are building dedicated single board
computers
> >to control the SID. A single board computer already exists with plenty of
> >RAM, ROM and I/O. The processor is a popular but mature 8 bit type and it
is
> >easy to program. This single board has enough speed and power to program
the
> >6581 in realtime.The addition of MIDI I/O has already been done. I'm
talking
> >about the Commodore 64. Cheap and plentiful.
> >
> One word..... KNOBS!!!!!!
>
> paul perry (Frostwave) Melbourne Australia
>



From matti at devo.com  Wed Aug 29 05:26:16 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:26:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Pot Sources
In-Reply-To: <009a01c1301d$e3d95320$ed6cb4ca@clowndog>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108282323530.6544-100000@whipit.devo.com>

that's it folks. we have been invaded by government officials. The jig is
up. Destroy all your hard drives, quickly, before the man finds evidence
of your hell-bent transistor trafficking and solder huffing tendencies.



:|

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, clowndog wrote:

> I know this dude who can sell all the pot u need
>
> ill hook u up

-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From sbernardi at home.net  Wed Aug 29 06:16:43 2001
From: sbernardi at home.net (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:16:43 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your
 own!
References: <20010828235859S.cfmd@swipnet.se><005c01c13015$8bc6e9c0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com> <20010829012912F.cfmd@swipnet.se> <00ce01c1302f$df864780$bca1b3cf@nbnet.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <3B8C6CAB.73B185DF@home.net>

Building even a small scale wafer fab unit is not something you can do in
your garage. There are some NASTY chemicals involved - I doubt if you could
purchase them. Boron, phosphine
Here's a list of equipment needed (at least what I can remember - it was
quite a while ago)
Epitaxial ovens
Diffusion ovens (up to 1500 deg C, controlled ramp up and ramp down
temperatures)
Mask alignment and exposure station
Silox etching
Gas delivery and recovery systems (gotta put the doping gas into and out of
the ovens)
Aluminum sputtering units (for metal masks)
Wafer saws

A few million dollars new, maybe a few hundred grand used?

Here's the process for bipolar:
You start with a p-type wafer, then grow a 25 micron n-type epitaxial layer
on top of it.
Grow a layer of silox (silicon dioxide) on top of this
Apply photoresist, expose the isolation mask, develop, and etch the exposed
silox away (just like a PC board!), remove photoresist.
Stick it in a diffusion oven and blow boron gas at it at about 1100 degC to
diffuse p-type material all the way through the epi layer to the p-type
wafer. This defines tubs of n-type material.
Grow another silox layer, apply photoresist, and expose the base layer
(will become base of npn transistors), etch, and strip photoresist.
Another p-type diffusion step to define the bases of npn transistors, and
resistors - islands of p-type material inside of the n-type tubs.
Another silox layer and mask exposure to define the emitter areas.
Another diffusion step, this time with n-type gas (phosphine)
Another silox layer and exposure and etch to define contact openings down
to the components.
Sputter aluminum over the whole thing.
Photoresist and exposure for the metal mask, etch.
Another silox layer, then a mask to define the pad openings (where the
little wires will bond to), etc.

And that's a relatively "simple" process - no ion implantation, etc.



Darren Reid wrote:

> "Magnus Danielson" <cfmd at swipnet.se> sez:
>
> > Hmm... interesting twist actually! But the reason for my questions
> > where to try to shake out some knowledge about what stuff is actually
> > needed. Since I was thinking of pretty large features (by todays
> > measures) leftover equipment should be available for feasable
> > prices.. if one would dare that is.
>
> Shake that tree...I wanna learn more about this too.
>
> -Darren
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at home.net




From c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz  Wed Aug 29 07:07:17 2001
From: c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz (clowndog)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:07:17 +1200
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
Message-ID: <01af01c13048$7a135370$ed6cb4ca@clowndog>

Does anyone here know how I can convert a PCX image file of a single sided
PCB to an autotrax or gerb file format?

http://www.algonet.se/~cyrano/unispdif_solder.zip



From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Wed Aug 29 09:13:39 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:13:39 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll y
	our own!
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF01C@exchange1.intermetall.de>

Just a garage and the equipment will not be enough.

-first of all, garage won't do, clean room does, it's not only yield,
 but also "contamination poisoning the wafer issue"
-clean room and equipment given, you need a process, ie. the recipy.
 The problem is that the recipy for wafers is a bit more complicated
 then for cake. Even a simple process may require 100-200 steps,
 and each step has to be taken with greatest care, sometimes
 depending on the tolerances of previous steps to make up for
 that.
-clean room and equipment and recipe given, you need to "run in"
 the process. Ie. if you buy a perfectly good recipe, you will 
 notice that your first results will be crap, even if you follow
 the instructions very carefully. Why? Because of tolerance.
 You may not have the same equipment as the recipe supplier, and
 even if, then your equipment is still slightly different.
 We are talking about a few fractions of um or ppm only here.
 Even with engineering aid from the recipe supplier you will
 need several 100s or 1000s of wasted wafers until the process is
 run in on spec. It's now the point when you can actually design
 something, cause still some parameters will be different from
 the original process.
-all run in you have to continuously watch and maintain the
 process, very little changes in equipment and environment as well
 as incomming chemicals can turn you back to the 100% crap
 where you started. Basically this means that the wafer fab must
 run day and night 360 days a year (5 days for cleaning).
 A major halt can mean another run in.
 You have to watch for each and everything.
 Just a few examples: paper from one supplier may be ok, another
 product will contaminate your wafers. 100% crap because you changed
 the notepad you usually use.
 Waferboxes behaved very well until your supplier changed something.
 Again, contamination or static will turn your wafers into crap.
 The make up your wife uses (we aggree that you need some help)
 sometimes leads to contamination, as well as your smoking
 outside the clean room in the breaks. And your beard and hair
 cause trouble as well, as do little skin particles which you
 distribute in millions all over the clean room.

So, running even a little wafer fab in a moderate feature
size process is not an easy task, and I doubt that the expertise
of one man allone is sufficient to get anything other then crap
out of it.

I see it here at www.micronas.com every day, and I have seen
it at the little fab at the chair for microelectronics
at Dormund University, the later was actually run by few
people a few days in the year thus the results where, mmmmhh,
difficult.

m.c.

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Magnus Danielson [mailto:cfmd at swipnet.se]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. August 2001 23:59
> An: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Betreff: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll
> your own!
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> I constantly hear people looking for this and that chip, but have a
> hard time finding it. Since we are all more or less into the mad
> scientist level, it is just logical that we eventually will go for the
> Chip-DIY trend.
> 
> Here is only one place to look:
> http://www.universitywafer.com/
> 
> There's more...
> 
> Actually, I'm not very serious about this... but if we only pretend
> for a moment, just how much stuff would be necessary for a not overly
> complex analog design, say up to 20-40 transistors, about the equalent
> numbers or resistors and a few caps and a bunch of diodes. I think
> I've heard the voices (keyboards actually) of a few sufficiently
> knowledgeable people.
> 
> Sure, there are some pretty hefty chemicals in use...
> 
> But if someone think he could spare a garage-place and has been pretty
> lucky in both gamble and love (I think an understanding wife is
> required if one has one).
> 
> But anyway, it would be fun to just pick up some of the knowledge in
> this field! Please speak up!
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus - has no spare space, no spare money and no wife
> 


From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Aug 29 09:45:43 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:45:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
References: <1.5.4.32.20010829002933.0086c0a8@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <012f01c13060$310fd780$118b193e@default>

>Does putting a resistor across one side of a linear B pot give a
reverse log?

Contrary to what the Ampage site says, this is impossible. You CAN
create log from lin, but not reverse log. Although a parallel resistor
will reduce the overall resistance of the track, it affect on the total
resistance is only great when then the tracks resistance is high. As you
turn the pot, the rate of resistance change gets less not more.

I vote for starting a trend of pots that work backwards... who says we
need to have the highest gain at the CW end. But I can see it now... the
microphone starts to feedback, and the panic sets in, you turn the knob,
and it gets worse... much worse.

Actually Omeg in the UK will make you reverse log pots, but it does get
a little costly with minimum orders. I had a load of 47KC pots made for
my MultiLadder filter and Noise module and they weren't exactly cheap.
But they are affordable, 2UKP each, if you buy a 100 or so.

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 29 10:48:21 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:48:21 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
References: <01af01c13048$7a135370$ed6cb4ca@clowndog>
Message-ID: <003501c13067$5bc3ae00$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Convert a PCX as in stoneagepcbitmapimageformat to gerber or autotraxs?
Err, sure you can do that nowaywhatshoever. ;^)

Or wait, first convert to GIF then vectorize, then export as HPGL, then
convert HPGL to gerber?
Don't think the last step is possible.
The other 3 are but the result of vectorisation usually sucks.

Theo


From: clowndog <c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz>


> Does anyone here know how I can convert a PCX image file of a single sided
> PCB to an autotrax or gerb file format?
>
> http://www.algonet.se/~cyrano/unispdif_solder.zip
>



From dor900 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 29 10:55:59 2001
From: dor900 at hotmail.com (Halldor Kristinn Juliusson)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:55:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <F2721eTrKZ0wZDyDG7400018d81@hotmail.com>

unsubscribe

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 29 11:50:10 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:50:10 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
References: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF01C@exchange1.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <001301c1306f$fe927a00$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

I know one list member that actually has cleanroom access and a "free" waver
every 2 months.
Tried to get him make moog ladders, but think in the end he did only dual
trannies for a 303 clone.
Say H are you still on the list?
If anybody knows about DIY ICs its you, lets hear it!

Ain't there any studends on the list following a IC design practicum.
Try convince your prof that you _need_ some exstra wavers.
If you don't know what to do with  them, there are suggestions enough on
this list.
(3 tranny OTAs ?, moog ladders?, expo with temp compensation in IC form?)

Theo






From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Wed Aug 29 12:03:57 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:03:57 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll y
	our own!
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF01E@exchange1.intermetall.de>

We had a lot of discussion about the Moog ladder recently,
even into the finest details. I think we should not forget
that integrated transistors have some disadvantages, too.
E.g. parasitic capacitance. 
And there is latch up, something you will never experience
in a discrete circuit. Lots of parasitic effects.
Basically it is not much fun to design a circuit as
integrated device, because of these parasitics.
This does not apply for matching and equal temperature, 
of course, this is really the big bonus feature of integration,
and the only one I can think of (for 10 analog transistor
circuits).
So perhaps some care is needed
to develop a good integrated clone of a discrete original.
It would be fascinating, no doubt!

Perhaps it would be better to concentrate on originals
that where integrated from the beginneng, ie. SSM and
CEM designs, but then we have patent issues, as well as
reverse engineering effort.

But after wafer out we have bonding and packaging issues.
We don't want to place test needles on wafer every time
we want to play, do we? (Hey, like in the old self driven
"crystal detector" radios, ... wait a minute, I have to
make a junction ....

Very often research labs do not package their parts at all,
they actually never solder something.


m.c.


> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Theo [mailto:t.hogers at home.nl]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. August 2001 11:50
> An: Czech Martin; 'Magnus Danielson'; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you 
> want - roll
> your own!
> 
> 
> I know one list member that actually has cleanroom access and 
> a "free" waver
> every 2 months.
> Tried to get him make moog ladders, but think in the end he 
> did only dual
> trannies for a 303 clone.
> Say H are you still on the list?
> If anybody knows about DIY ICs its you, lets hear it!
> 
> Ain't there any studends on the list following a IC design practicum.
> Try convince your prof that you _need_ some exstra wavers.
> If you don't know what to do with  them, there are 
> suggestions enough on
> this list.
> (3 tranny OTAs ?, moog ladders?, expo with temp compensation 
> in IC form?)
> 
> Theo
> 
> 
> 
> 


From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Aug 29 12:10:29 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:10:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
References: <1.5.4.32.20010829002933.0086c0a8@popa.melbpc.org.au> <012f01c13060$310fd780$118b193e@default>
Message-ID: <002301c13072$d5071260$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Hi Tony,
You can get reverse log.
It works the same as with creating log from lin, but you put the resistor on
the other side.
One _important_ thing though, the load resistance has to be very high.
Otherwise the load resistance undoes the effect of the "reverse log"
resistor, the result will be a kind of S curve.
Incase of a resonance pot this means you often need opamp buffer to get it
work.

Its kind of important to consider the load when using a pot as a voltage
divider,
other wise you may unintentionally have a log response when you planned for
lin.
E.g. a 100k lin pot with a 10k load will give a log response, while a 1k lin
pot with a 10k load will give a lin response.

I realize its a kind of rough description, but I hope you understand what I
try to say anyway.

Regards,
Theo


From: Tony Allgood <oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk>

> >Does putting a resistor across one side of a linear B pot give a
> reverse log?
>
> Contrary to what the Ampage site says, this is impossible. You CAN
> create log from lin, but not reverse log.




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Aug 29 12:20:28 2001
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:20:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] rev log pots
References: <1.5.4.32.20010829002933.0086c0a8@popa.melbpc.org.au> <012f01c13060$310fd780$118b193e@default> <002301c13072$d5071260$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <002701c13074$5b8a1480$aa2487d9@default>

Perhaps I wasn't clear. It can't be done for a reverse log pot acting as
a resistor. And this is the main use for these things in most of our
circuits. eg. fixed Q tone controls, SSM2017 gain adjust, wah pedals,
Smallstone phasor, moog filter. Changing the resistor to the other side
of the pot makes no difference at all in the resistor mode.

But you are right it can be made to work if the pot is acting as a
reverse log potential divider.

Regards,

Tony Allgood, Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Modular Synth and TB3030:
www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music: www.mp3.com/taklamakan





From cyborgzero at home.com  Wed Aug 29 14:13:53 2001
From: cyborgzero at home.com (Rob B)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:13:53 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
References: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF01E@exchange1.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <002601c13084$1f87e2e0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>



aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
----- Original Message -----
From: Czech Martin <Martin.Czech at Micronas.com>
To: 'Theo' <t.hogers at home.nl>
Cc: Sdiy (E-Mail) <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:03 AM
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll
your own!


> Perhaps it would be better to concentrate on originals
> that where integrated from the beginneng, ie. SSM and
> CEM designs, but then we have patent issues, as well as
> reverse engineering effort.
>

Well, the chip reverse-engineering isn't all that tough actually.. Just need
access to a diamond cutter that goes through the layers one by one, about a
few microns at a time, and a microscope.. It *might* even be possible to do
it with a CNC mill.You can figure out exactly what the content of the chip
is that way.. It really doesn't take all that long. You take one picture
after the next then merge them all. Not more difficult than reverse
engineering a pcb using the same method of shaving off layers.

The guy I work with right now used to do it for a living! What a waste of
talent though, since right now he is lucky if he is allowed to solder
together 2 wires.

Rob




From alex at xatomic.ch  Wed Aug 29 15:05:59 2001
From: alex at xatomic.ch (Alex)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:05:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
In-Reply-To: <001301c1306f$fe927a00$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1308b$58f7b260$2201a8c0@artist>

Hi all!


I recently bought a PCB/Schematic layout software called "Target 3001" made
by a german
engineering office (Ing. B?ro Friedrich, http://www.ibfriedrich.de).
It's a really great program and a lot cheaper than other PCB/Schematic
software.
Their support is outstanding, too. If you have questions or problems with
the software
you get the answer imediately. (With e-mail below an hour)
But here come's what you might be looking for:
They also offer a CAD software which's called "Target Chip Designer"
With this program you can design your own ASICs (Analog and Mixed Signal)
and then you can send the file directly to "Prema Semiconductors"
(http://www.prema.com)
which produce the chips for you.

Sounds nice, but actually I wasn't able to find out minimum amount of ICs
you have to order and
the costs.

Regards,
Alex


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Theo
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:50 AM
> To: Czech Martin; 'Magnus Danielson'; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll
> your own!
>
>
> I know one list member that actually has cleanroom access and a
> "free" waver
> every 2 months.
> Tried to get him make moog ladders, but think in the end he did only dual
> trannies for a 303 clone.
> Say H are you still on the list?
> If anybody knows about DIY ICs its you, lets hear it!
>
> Ain't there any studends on the list following a IC design practicum.
> Try convince your prof that you _need_ some exstra wavers.
> If you don't know what to do with  them, there are suggestions enough on
> this list.
> (3 tranny OTAs ?, moog ladders?, expo with temp compensation in IC form?)
>
> Theo
>
>
>
>
>



From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Aug 29 15:48:51 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 06:48:51 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
References: <01af01c13048$7a135370$ed6cb4ca@clowndog>
Message-ID: <3B8CF2C3.3B9AF296@silcom.com>

    That is not going to be an easy task.   Protel Atutotrax and Gerber Files
basically describe the position of an object, and it's shape, where as a PCX
file is basically just a bit map, I do believe (I could be wrong about that).
I have always found it easier to just make a new PCB file from a
picture....better yet, if there is a schematic, I will redraw the schematic
with Orcad and then you can get a netlist which makes doing the board even
easier.

    -Jim

    P.S. I do have a bunch of Protel Autotrax utilities that I wrote myself on
my website http://www.silcom.com/~patchell .  But there is nothing there that
will do what you want... :-(

clowndog wrote:

> Does anyone here know how I can convert a PCX image file of a single sided
> PCB to an autotrax or gerb file format?
>
> http://www.algonet.se/~cyrano/unispdif_solder.zip



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Wed Aug 29 16:20:51 2001
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:20:51 EDT
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your  own!
Message-ID: <be.19cabc98.28be5443@aol.com>

so I guess environmentally friendly sdiy is pretty much out of the question? 
; )

"Grow a layer of silox (silicon dioxide) on top of this
Apply photoresist, expose the isolation mask, develop, and etch the exposed
silox away (just like a PC board!), remove photoresist.
Stick it in a diffusion oven and blow boron gas at it at about 1100 degC to
diffuse p-type material all the way through the epi layer to the p-type
wafer. This defines tubs of n-type material.
Grow another silox layer, apply photoresist, and expose the base layer
(will become base of npn transistors), etch, and strip photoresist.
Another p-type diffusion step to define the bases of npn transistors, and
resistors - islands of p-type material inside of the n-type tubs.
Another silox layer and mask exposure to define the emitter areas.
Another diffusion step, this time with n-type gas (phosphine)
Another silox layer and exposure and etch to define contact openings down
to the components.
Sputter aluminum over the whole thing.
Photoresist and exposure for the metal mask, etch.
Another silox layer, then a mask to define the pad openings (where the
little wires will bond to), etc."


From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Aug 29 16:33:03 2001
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:33:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
In-Reply-To: <3B8C6CAB.73B185DF@home.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1010829103152.14302A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Aluminum sputtering units (for metal masks)

   Gee and here the Physics department literally _gave_ away a gigantic 
sputtering system two years ago...

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From mervyn.thomas at astrium-space.com  Wed Aug 29 18:15:03 2001
From: mervyn.thomas at astrium-space.com (THOMAS, Mervyn)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:15:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
Message-ID: <A9EC4DD60CD8D411838200508BAF2AC04C3353@mms12034.pth.uk.astrium.corp>

PCX is a bit map, Gerber is vector data. While I'm sure you could vectorise
your bitmap the results would not be very good and would need a fair degree
of tidying up before converting to Gerber. You may also want to fill in the
drill holes on the pads and make them a bit bigger before conversion - the
amount of land left on those pads looks a bit on the small side to me. 

HPGL to Gerber could be done through something like CamCad but I can't
remember if the shareware/demo version of CamCad has HPGL in. If it does,
then HPGL to Gerber can be done by mapping pen widths to apertures - this
would of course then 'draw' all your pads rather than flashing them. Your
fab shop will love you - obviously this ain't a problem if you're doing the
fab yourself.

My advice [FWIW]: redraw the thing using your layout program - it'll be just
as quick in the long run and give superior results.

regards,

Merv

## -----Original Message-----
## From: clowndog [mailto:c4pt41nz at slingshot.co.nz]
## Sent: 29 August 2001 06:07:AM
## To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
## Subject: [sdiy] pcb
## 
## 
## Does anyone here know how I can convert a PCX image file of 
## a single sided
## PCB to an autotrax or gerb file format?
## 
## http://www.algonet.se/~cyrano/unispdif_solder.zip
## 
...
This email is for the intended addressee only.
If you have received it in error then you must not use, retain, disseminate
or otherwise deal with it.  Please notify the sender by return email.
The views of the author may not necessarily constitute the views of Astrium Limited.
Nothing in this email shall bind Astrium Limited in any contract or obligation.
Astrium Limited
Gunnels Wood Road
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 2AS


From shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca  Wed Aug 29 18:49:46 2001
From: shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca (Darren Reid)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:49:46 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
References: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF01C@exchange1.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <00d701c130aa$9c8c52a0$578da4c6@MIRAMICHI>

"Czech Martin" <Martin.Czech at Micronas.com> sez:

>Just a garage and the equipment will not be enough.

Yeah, I wasn't actually dreaming of making IC's in my baby barn. I *AM*
dreaming of designing a small IC and having a few made by a specialty shop
or university :)

Hey, I can dream.

-Darren



From jhaible at t-online.de  Wed Aug 29 18:57:08 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jh.)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:57:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2017P
References: <1.5.4.32.20010829002933.0086c0a8@popa.melbpc.org.au> <012f01c13060$310fd780$118b193e@default>
Message-ID: <008201c130ba$a0ae1ca0$70f39e3e@debitel.net>

> Contrary to what the Ampage site says, this is impossible. You CAN
> create log from lin, but not reverse log.

Right. You can make a reverse log *potentiometer* (sort of), but
not a reverse log variable resistor.

> I vote for starting a trend of pots that work backwards... who says we
> need to have the highest gain at the CW end. But I can see it now... the
> microphone starts to feedback, and the panic sets in, you turn the knob,
> and it gets worse... much worse.

I have a Tascam mixer with effect sends that have zero in the center
(turning cw is pre fader send, ccw is post fader send). Then one day
I was asked to do live mixing in our church ("you have a studio at
home?!") and they have a Behringer with ordinary Send pots. You
can imagine what my first reaction was when I wanted to reduce
a monitor level: Turn the knob to center position. Knowing in your
head that this is wrong doesn't help - your fingers "know" differently,
and they are always faster.

JH.






From shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca  Wed Aug 29 19:07:19 2001
From: shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca (Darren Reid)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:07:19 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
References: <000201c1308b$58f7b260$2201a8c0@artist>
Message-ID: <00e201c130ad$10019860$578da4c6@MIRAMICHI>

"Alex" <alex at xatomic.ch> sez:

>But here come's what you might be looking for:
>They also offer a CAD software which's called "Target Chip Designer"
>With this program you can design your own ASICs (Analog and Mixed Signal)
>and then you can send the file directly to "Prema Semiconductors"
>(http://www.prema.com)
>which produce the chips for you.
>
>Sounds nice, but actually I wasn't able to find out minimum amount of ICs
>you have to order and
>the costs.

This is exactly the sort of thing that many folks here would be interested
in. Wouldn't it be a hoot to design our own chips for SDIY? A collaborative
project would be a lot of fun.

One possible idea that might bring this into the realm of "cost efficiency"
might be something like what they did at Delft University:
http://cas.et.tudelft.nl/software/ocean/

Here's some relevant info:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Appendix A: Background of OCEAN
OCEAN is the result of a joint effort of many people from the Electrical
Engineering Faculty at Delft University of Technology. It is based to a
large extent on the NELSIS IC design system and database. This full-custom
system was developed over the past 10 years at Delft University, especially
in the Network Theory group. To handle sea-of-gates design, new tools were
created and other tools were modified. Most of this work was performed as a
result of the IOP sea-of-gates project, which started 4 years ago. The main
drive to make the package more user-friendly was the advent of the new
curriculum for EE students. The latter included a practical design course in
which the students design a complex circuit in a group, simulating a
commercial environment. This course started september 1992 for the first
time and has been quite successful.
Why sea-of-gates??
The OCEAN design system is targeted to produce sea-of-gates layout. This
means that they deal with a prefabricated transistor pattern on the chip. To
implement a circuit, the tools (or the designer, for that matter)
interconnect these transistors with metal wires. Our sea-of-gates layout
strategy aims at four goals:
 1. Minimization of the fabrication time. Because the chips are
    prefabricated (the transistors are already on the master image), the
    silicon foundry only processes the masks related to metal wires.

 2. Minimization of the design time. The time involved in designing a cell
    layout is reduced dramatically (as compared to full-custom) because the
    transistors are preplaced on the image. Typically, it takes only a few
    minutes to layout a flipflop or a combinatorial gate, and the designer
    does not need to know anything about the process design rules.

 3. Minimization of the chip cost. The layout design starts with a
    prefabricated master image. This is a semi-manufactured article that
    can be produced in large quantities. At Delft University of Technology
    we have 150 wafers for the 'fishbone' image in stock.

 4. Full-custom properties on Semi-Custom chips: Efficient implementation
    of structured logic (RAM, PLA etc.). In contrast to the conventional
    gate-array, a sea-of-gates does not have pre-defined routing channels.
    This enables a much more compact and clean implementation of
    structured circuits such as processors.

The OCEAN suite of tools handles a wide variety of sea-of-gates master
images and process technologies. The tools MADONNA (the placer), TROUT (the
router) and FISH (purifier and design rule checker) handle the various
peculiarities of the images to produce optimal layout.

___________________________________________________________

Would this be a good way to design analog audio circuits, for example
filters?

-Darren



From luc.ky at pandora.be  Wed Aug 29 21:53:09 2001
From: luc.ky at pandora.be (Luc Van Den Bosch)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:53:09 +0200
Subject: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard resources
Message-ID: <006201c130c4$3a667140$fb1676d5@pandora.be>

Sounds like a lot of work, maybe you should consider taking:
1 microcontroller (68hc11f1 for instance has 8 analog inputs and  a uart
serial com.port (for midi))
1 sid, and apropriate address-decoder logic
1 lcd or some led's
some pots, some buttons
1 (or more) EEPROM memory('s) to store the software and patches so that they
are not gone when you switch off power.
And offcoarse a lot of programming, but that's no diffrent ont the C64

If you'r going for the C64, I did some midi interfacing once with a 6850
ACIA on the C64's expansion port (used my C64 as a midi-cv converter for a
while) and that worked great, I still have the schemo's lying around
somewhere if you want.

Luc


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John L Marshall <john.l.marshall at gte.net>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:45 PM
> Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard
> resources
>
>
> > No! I was thinking of taking a Commodore 64 and stripping away all of
the
> > unnecessary junk. Throw out the tube, the tape, the disk, the keyboard,
> all
> > that stuff. Use the C64 as a SBC. Reprogram it with your favorite
> language.
> > It's got 64K of RAM, plenty. There are three ROM's; two 2764's (2364A)
and
> a
> > 2732 (2332A). Chomp the ROM's out and install sockets. There is lots of
> I/O.
> > Use the cassette interface with opto-isolator for MIDI. There are two
5626
> > interface chips for all of the controls that you would ever want to add.
> >
> > You could use rotary digital encoders for input and a serial LCD panel
for
> > output.
> >
> >  I suppose that the address lines could be lifted and an address buffer
> > could be added without too much pain. Keeping digital signals separate
> from
> > analog signals is necessary. Use a "common point ground".
> >
> > I once built a synthesizer using Walsh functions. Talk about noise. Keep
> the
> > digital separate from the analog.
> >
> > By the way, somewhere I have a resistor coefficient table for summing
> Walsh
> > values to the sine wave harmonic series. I will dig it up if someone is
> > interested.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Luc Van Den Bosch <luc.ky at pandora.be>
> > To: John L Marshall <john.l.marshall at gte.net>;
> <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 1:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy] keyboard
> > resources
> >
> >
> > > But .... the C64 has a VERY noisy output which makes it unusable in a
> > > musicians setup.
> > > I did once (about 10 years ago or so) use the C64 for making sounds,
> wrote
> > > some assembler code to play the SID from the C64 keyboard, i know what
> I'm
> > > talking about.
> > > Even connecting the ground of the C64's audio output to my mixer
system
> > put
> > > the digital noise on top of the output of the mixer.
> > > That's imho why everyone (including me) is building a dedicated single
> > board
> > > computer to control it.
> > > The SID station for instance uses latches on the adress-bus of the SID
> to
> > > minimise adress-bus noise bleeding to the SID's output while the
> > > microprocessor is adressing some other stuff (like keyboard, display).
> > > Another good reason might be that the C64 with it's disk drive and
> > > CRT-display is a rather ponderous thing to move to a gig.
> > >
> > > Luc
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: John L Marshall <john.l.marshall at gte.net>
> > > To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 8:58 PM
> > > Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy]
keyboard
> > > resources
> > >
> > >
> > > > The "Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide" has 25 pages
dedicated
> > to
> > > > the 6581SID.
> > > >
> > > > I am unclear as to why people are building dedicated single board
> > > computers
> > > > to control the SID. A single board computer already exists with
plenty
> > of
> > > > RAM, ROM and I/O. The processor is a popular but mature 8 bit type
and
> > it
> > > is
> > > > easy to program. This single board has enough speed and power to
> program
> > > the
> > > > 6581 in realtime.The addition of MIDI I/O has already been done. I'm
> > > talking
> > > > about the Commodore 64. Cheap and plentiful.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: John Lamb <jlamb3 at nc.rr.com>
> > > > To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 12:53 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: MIDI controlled SID, was flying faders, was [sdiy]
> keyboard
> > > > resources
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > "Andrew Martens" <amartens at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote on 8/27/01
> > 9:42:19
> > > > PM:
> > > > >
> > > > > >That reminds me, I need to get to work on my SID synth again...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Cheers,
> > > > > >Andrew Martens
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm interested in doing something similar -- If you could point me
> > > towards
> > > > some good 6581 documentation I
> > > > > would be much obliged.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > John Lamb
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Thu Aug 30 00:05:35 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:05:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - rollyour own!
References: <20010828235859S.cfmd@swipnet.se><002c01c13012$a0eb3c00$9769073e@paul> <20010829011228B.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <008a01c130d6$bc812780$1271073e@paul>

Magnus,

> I just wonder how hard it would be to get a little more practical
> coarse on how to do it.

or find someone who knows what they're doing :-)

> > Maybe one day, I'll be able to roll my own Moog ladder chips, VCA chips,
and
> > VCADSR chips...
> > one day...
>
> Indeed. Don't forget to sell some ;O)

if I do have some made, I would NEED to sell some to make the money back!

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Thu Aug 30 00:12:51 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:12:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
References: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF01C@exchange1.intermetall.de> <001301c1306f$fe927a00$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <00ba01c130d7$bfdb3280$1271073e@paul>

Theo,

> Tried to get him make moog ladders, but think in the end he did only dual
> trannies for a 303 clone.

Damn, Id KILL for a PILE of moog ladder VCF chips, I mean I would buy 100 of
them at least!

> (3 tranny OTAs ?, moog ladders?, expo with temp compensation in IC form?)


For me Id like the following,

1) MOOG ladder VCF
2) VCADSR
3) SSM2040 clone
4) Log/Lin VCA

in order of priority :-)

TTFN
Paul (obsessed now) Maddox
(wonder if anyone at where I work can do this?)




From sasami at blaze.net.au  Thu Aug 30 00:33:13 2001
From: sasami at blaze.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:33:13 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Message-ID: <200108292233.f7TMXC430573@blaze.net.au>


>Pretty much.  To their credit, there are no patents on perpetual
>motion machines.  :-)

That didn't stop an Australian Science program which ran annual competitions
from awarding places to perpetual motion machines TWICE.  

A battery lamp which improved its efficiency by recharging itself from a
solar panel, and a pendulum based power generator.  
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From gene at ixiacom.com  Thu Aug 30 01:40:07 2001
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:40:07 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Message-ID: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8ABAC7091@racerx.ixiacom.com>

I have a book called "Perpetual Motion - the History of an Obsession" and
it's pretty darn interesting. There have been machines that recharge
themselves (usually a spring or weight) by tiny motions caused by things
like changes in temperature or barometric pressure. While these apparently
got "energy from nowhere" they do not qualify as perpetual motion devices
since they have an external power source (the sun, ultimately). They are no
more perpetual motion than a windmill.

Uh oh, this is starting to get OT... how about powering a synth this way??

Best Regards,

- Gene



-----Original Message-----
From: sasami at blaze.net.au [mailto:sasami at blaze.net.au]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 3:33 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US



>Pretty much.  To their credit, there are no patents on perpetual
>motion machines.  :-)

That didn't stop an Australian Science program which ran annual competitions
from awarding places to perpetual motion machines TWICE.  

A battery lamp which improved its efficiency by recharging itself from a
solar panel, and a pendulum based power generator.  
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au  
Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Thu Aug 30 02:20:08 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 02:20:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
In-Reply-To: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8ABAC7091@racerx.ixiacom.com>
References: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8ABAC7091@racerx.ixiacom.com>
Message-ID: <20010830022008A.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Gene Stopp <gene at ixiacom.com>
Subject: RE: [sdiy] reamp/patenting in US
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:40:07 -0700

> I have a book called "Perpetual Motion - the History of an Obsession" and
> it's pretty darn interesting. There have been machines that recharge
> themselves (usually a spring or weight) by tiny motions caused by things
> like changes in temperature or barometric pressure. While these apparently
> got "energy from nowhere" they do not qualify as perpetual motion devices
> since they have an external power source (the sun, ultimately). They are no
> more perpetual motion than a windmill.
> 
> Uh oh, this is starting to get OT... how about powering a synth this way??

Sure, just set it up from its "Hi out", synthesize yourself a 50-60 Hz
sine and you are all set. If you have a powerfull synth it can either
make other signals on other outputs or power another synth.

Cheers,
Magnus



From ultrahype at compuserve.com  Thu Aug 30 03:06:03 2001
From: ultrahype at compuserve.com (ultrahype)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:06:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
Message-ID: <000c01c130ef$f21a2040$0100a8c0@mainsystem>

HI 

sorry if this is a little off topic but im trying to dig up some info and im sure you all can help.

im trying to find out if there are any HARDWARE based Softsynths ( ones that have a designated hardware card for processesing and DSP)

i know of the following :

ALL Sound blaster and compatibles with synth engines
degidesign SampleCell
Korg OYASIS
Creamware Pulsar

are there any others ? even discontinued ones?

thanks for you help and please dont YELL for a OT question

thanks

Jim Heinz


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From p8051 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 03:33:37 2001
From: p8051 at yahoo.com (TooManySynths)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:33:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
In-Reply-To: <006201c130c4$3a667140$fb1676d5@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <20010830013337.15037.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

My dead DW8000 is headed for the trash.  On the way,
I'm trying to decide what can be salvaged.  For sure
the nice transformer/ps that will fit into a 1u case. 

But, what I want to know is, what is a korg 2069ad
filter chip.  Or more specifically, where can I find
specs/sample configurations.  I have always liked the
DW8000 filter and now that mine's going to the grave,
I'd like to build a filter from its guts.

Lest anyone be too concerned, I'm not trashing all my
synths.  I am at a point in life that I know longer
wish to maintain the space to store broken/worthless
stuff.  So, anything that isn't functional or salable,
is being gutted/trashed.

Thanks
Daryl


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com


From disck at home.com  Thu Aug 30 03:34:53 2001
From: disck at home.com (pH_______)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:34:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
In-Reply-To: <000c01c130ef$f21a2040$0100a8c0@mainsystem>
Message-ID: <B7B2E64C.15906%disck@home.com>

Keema:
http://www.symbolicsound.com/

 also, there are a few that run on TDM cards like DUY?s DSPider, Virus...
try www.digidesign.com

this is not a card but may be of interest DSP in a box:
http://www.soundart-hot.com/
-pH



On 8/29/01 6:06 PM, "ultrahype" <ultrahype at compuserve.com> wrote:

> HI 
>  
> sorry if this is a little off topic but im trying to dig up some info and im
> sure you all can help.
>  
> im trying to find out if there are any HARDWARE based Softsynths ( ones that
> have a designated hardware card for processesing and DSP)
>  
> i know of the following :
>  
> ALL Sound blaster and compatibles with synth engines
> degidesign SampleCell
> Korg OYASIS
> Creamware Pulsar
>  
> are there any others ? even discontinued ones?
>  
> thanks for you help and please dont YELL for a OT question
>  
> thanks
>  
> Jim Heinz
>  
>  
> 
> 

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From sbernardi at home.net  Thu Aug 30 03:44:00 2001
From: sbernardi at home.net (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:44:00 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your
 own!
References: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF01E@exchange1.intermetall.de> <002601c13084$1f87e2e0$6501a8c0@nwhub1.in.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B8D9A60.9B7AA6E1@home.net>

Analog processes like bipolar usually don't have buried layers - you can see
what's going on from the top (it really is a "planar" process). The different
layers of silox refract the light differently, and neatly outline the different
diffused layers in different colors. Quite pretty, actually.  It's the high
density digital processes that have a lot of buried layers.

Rob B wrote:

> aim : cybrgzr0 <--last thing is a number
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Czech Martin <Martin.Czech at Micronas.com>
> To: 'Theo' <t.hogers at home.nl>
> Cc: Sdiy (E-Mail) <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:03 AM
> Subject: AW: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll
> your own!
>
> > Perhaps it would be better to concentrate on originals
> > that where integrated from the beginneng, ie. SSM and
> > CEM designs, but then we have patent issues, as well as
> > reverse engineering effort.
> >
>
> Well, the chip reverse-engineering isn't all that tough actually.. Just need
> access to a diamond cutter that goes through the layers one by one, about a
> few microns at a time, and a microscope.. It *might* even be possible to do
> it with a CNC mill.You can figure out exactly what the content of the chip
> is that way.. It really doesn't take all that long. You take one picture
> after the next then merge them all. Not more difficult than reverse
> engineering a pcb using the same method of shaving off layers.
>
> The guy I work with right now used to do it for a living! What a waste of
> talent though, since right now he is lucky if he is allowed to solder
> together 2 wires.
>
> Rob

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at home.net




From budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au  Thu Aug 30 04:12:39 2001
From: budweiser1 at dingoblue.net.au (Benjamin M. Woenig)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:42:39 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
References: <20010830013337.15037.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <011b01c130f9$3f476cc0$0c00a8c0@budweiser>

As far as I am aware, the filter chips used in the DW8000
can be removed and operated as a stand alone unit. You will
require a data sheet though, ask on the Synth DIY list! I'm sure
someone has the specs for it.

You should probably keep some of the keys, as they tend to
be needed by people from time to time. Maybe you could give the
synth to a repair company who could make use of it?

How badly trashed is it?

~ben


> Hi All,
>
> My dead DW8000 is headed for the trash.  On the way,
> I'm trying to decide what can be salvaged.  For sure
> the nice transformer/ps that will fit into a 1u case.
>
> But, what I want to know is, what is a korg 2069ad
> filter chip.  Or more specifically, where can I find
> specs/sample configurations.  I have always liked the
> DW8000 filter and now that mine's going to the grave,
> I'd like to build a filter from its guts.
>
> Lest anyone be too concerned, I'm not trashing all my
> synths.  I am at a point in life that I know longer
> wish to maintain the space to store broken/worthless
> stuff.  So, anything that isn't functional or salable,
> is being gutted/trashed.
>
> Thanks
> Daryl
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
Messenger
> http://im.yahoo.com



From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Aug 30 04:28:55 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:28:55 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
References: <200108292258.f7TMw6431262@blaze.net.au>
Message-ID: <3B8DA4E7.91C352E3@silcom.com>

    Hmmm....couldn't find the Protel PCB utils....well....uh...<cough>....it might
be because I forgot to post them....well, stuff happens....

    Here they are:

http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/protel/protel.html

    You will find a link to a zip file that is about 360K.  The html tells a little
bit about the files.

Ken Stone wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> Maybe I'm blind (probably actually) but i can't find those autotrax utils
> you mentioned. Do you have a more specific URL?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ken
>
> >    That is not going to be an easy task.   Protel Atutotrax and Gerber Files
> >basically describe the position of an object, and it's shape, where as a PCX
> >file is basically just a bit map, I do believe (I could be wrong about that).
> >I have always found it easier to just make a new PCB file from a
> >picture....better yet, if there is a schematic, I will redraw the schematic
> >with Orcad and then you can get a netlist which makes doing the board even
> >easier.
> >
> >    -Jim
> >
> >    P.S. I do have a bunch of Protel Autotrax utilities that I wrote myself on
> >my website http://www.silcom.com/~patchell .  But there is nothing there that
> >will do what you want... :-(
> >
> >clowndog wrote:
> >
> >> Does anyone here know how I can convert a PCX image file of a single sided
> >> PCB to an autotrax or gerb file format?
> >>
> >> http://www.algonet.se/~cyrano/unispdif_solder.zip
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Ken Stone   sasami at blaze.net.au
> Modular Synth <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
> Catgirl Paradise <http://www.anime.net/~kens/>
> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From mitch at sirius.com  Thu Aug 30 04:32:43 2001
From: mitch at sirius.com (Mitchell Hudson)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:32:43 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Mystery chips
Message-ID: <3B8DA5CA.99F7102E@sirius.com>

    I'm going through my electronics junk box and I realize that I have
a bunch of chips that I don't recognize. Is there a site that shows the
standard part number?

    There are a bunch labeled 74HCT followed by various digits

74HCT688N
74HCT163
74HCT04N
74HCT00N
74HCT04
74HCT393

    The NTE chip, which I think was sent as a replacement for something
that I ordered that had a different number.

NTE992

    Then there are the even more mysterious ones

MN74C04
74SL93
741S93
CA3140
3094



--M





From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Aug 30 04:35:30 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:35:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [efm] Mystery chips
References: <3B8DA5CA.99F7102E@sirius.com>
Message-ID: <3B8DA672.4A73E1BE@silcom.com>



Mitchell Hudson wrote:

>     I'm going through my electronics junk box and I realize that I have
> a bunch of chips that I don't recognize. Is there a site that shows the
> standard part number?
>
>     There are a bunch labeled 74HCT followed by various digits
>
> 74HCT688N

    8 bit comparator

>
> 74HCT163

    Syncronous 4 bit binary up counter

>
> 74HCT04N

    Hex inverter

>
> 74HCT00N

    Quad 2 input nand gate

>
> 74HCT04

    Hex inverter

>
> 74HCT393

    Dual 4 bit binary ripple counters

>
>
>     The NTE chip, which I think was sent as a replacement for something
> that I ordered that had a different number.
>
> NTE992
>
>     Then there are the even more mysterious ones
>
> MN74C04

    Hex inverter (metal gate CMOS

>
> 74SL93

    4 bit binary ripple counter (that should read 74LS93)

>
> 741S93
> CA3140

    BiMOS Opamp, mos front end, bipolar output

>
> 3094

    ....not sure about this one

>
>
> --M
>
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>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Thu Aug 30 04:36:40 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:36:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
References: <000c01c130ef$f21a2040$0100a8c0@mainsystem>
Message-ID: <000b01c130fc$99f756a0$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

I don't see this as off topic at all, if you intend to brew your own software synthesizer.

Korg Claims that their OASYS is open architecture. You can write your own synthesizer and effects code. Definitely a serious synthDIY project. The board has 5 motorola DSP chips.

Yamaha has the SW1000-XG. Good synthesizer but proprietary. The SW1000-XG accepts one of the PLG100-XX or PLG150-XX as an additional synthesizer daughter card. The PLG150-DX is an excellent DX-7 and then some.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ultrahype 
  To: diy 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:06 PM
  Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??


  HI 

  sorry if this is a little off topic but im trying to dig up some info and im sure you all can help.

  im trying to find out if there are any HARDWARE based Softsynths ( ones that have a designated hardware card for processesing and DSP)

  i know of the following :

  ALL Sound blaster and compatibles with synth engines
  degidesign SampleCell
  Korg OYASIS
  Creamware Pulsar

  are there any others ? even discontinued ones?

  thanks for you help and please dont YELL for a OT question

  thanks

  Jim Heinz


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From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Thu Aug 30 04:43:25 2001
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:43:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
References: <20010830013337.15037.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001901c130fd$8b78e660$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Have you thought about repackaging your old synths. Rip the guts out and
rack mount. You don't need more than a few keyboards anyway. Just today I
figured that I could fit my old EX-800 into a 2U rack box.
----- Original Message -----
From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:33 PM
Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?


> Hi All,
>
> My dead DW8000 is headed for the trash.  On the way,
> I'm trying to decide what can be salvaged.  For sure
> the nice transformer/ps that will fit into a 1u case.
>
> But, what I want to know is, what is a korg 2069ad
> filter chip.  Or more specifically, where can I find
> specs/sample configurations.  I have always liked the
> DW8000 filter and now that mine's going to the grave,
> I'd like to build a filter from its guts.
>
> Lest anyone be too concerned, I'm not trashing all my
> synths.  I am at a point in life that I know longer
> wish to maintain the space to store broken/worthless
> stuff.  So, anything that isn't functional or salable,
> is being gutted/trashed.
>
> Thanks
> Daryl
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
Messenger
> http://im.yahoo.com



From matti at devo.com  Thu Aug 30 04:43:57 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:43:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
In-Reply-To: <000c01c130ef$f21a2040$0100a8c0@mainsystem>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108292241450.15371-100000@whipit.devo.com>


The nord lead and nord modular are important ones. Also, this _is_ diy.
There are some people on-list who have programmed their own synths with
some of those DSP crads. Also, I'm pretty sure any digital synth will be a
softsynth; just loosen that qualifier at the end a little bit....

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, ultrahype wrote:

> HI
>
> sorry if this is a little off topic but im trying to dig up some info and im sure you all can help.
>
> im trying to find out if there are any HARDWARE based Softsynths ( ones that have a designated hardware card for processesing and DSP)
>
> i know of the following :
>
> ALL Sound blaster and compatibles with synth engines
> degidesign SampleCell
> Korg OYASIS
> Creamware Pulsar
...

-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu Aug 30 05:36:59 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 05:36:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
References: <20010830013337.15037.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> <001901c130fd$8b78e660$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <001501c13105$069f8680$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

And don't forget to sell/give the keyboard assembly to your SDIY list
members in need ;)

Theo


From: John L Marshall <john.l.marshall at gte.net>

> Have you thought about repackaging your old synths. Rip the guts out and
> rack mount. You don't need more than a few keyboards anyway. Just today I
> figured that I could fit my old EX-800 into a 2U rack box.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:33 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > My dead DW8000 is headed for the trash.  On the way,
> > I'm trying to decide what can be salvaged.  For sure
> > the nice transformer/ps that will fit into a 1u case.
> >
> > But, what I want to know is, what is a korg 2069ad
> > filter chip.  Or more specifically, where can I find
> > specs/sample configurations.  I have always liked the
> > DW8000 filter and now that mine's going to the grave,
> > I'd like to build a filter from its guts.
> >
> > Lest anyone be too concerned, I'm not trashing all my
> > synths.  I am at a point in life that I know longer
> > wish to maintain the space to store broken/worthless
> > stuff.  So, anything that isn't functional or salable,
> > is being gutted/trashed.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Daryl
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
> Messenger
> > http://im.yahoo.com
>



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu Aug 30 05:40:45 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:40:45 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010830034045.00883818@popa.melbpc.org.au>

I personally would be happy with a program that just lets you 
import an image of a PCB, and lets you see it superimposed on 
the screen as you lay out, so you are just 'tracing' out the layout.
Like painting by numbers.
Anyone know whether Protel 99 lets you do this? Other progs?

(if so, I can see some cut&paste in my future..)

paul perry melbourne australia



From jslandau at engin.umich.edu  Thu Aug 30 06:06:52 2001
From: jslandau at engin.umich.edu (Josh Landau)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:06:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
In-Reply-To: <001501c13105$069f8680$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
References: <20010830013337.15037.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>
 <001901c130fd$8b78e660$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010830000318.0289ede8@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>


> > > My dead DW8000 is headed for the trash.  On the way,
> > > I'm trying to decide what can be salvaged.  For sure
> > > the nice transformer/ps that will fit into a 1u case.

As I recall, the filter chip in the DW-8K is the same as the filter chip in 
the Poly 800 (could be wrong).  If it is, it's a very nice little thing, 
capable of self-oscillating and so on.

I don't offhand know what version of the firmware you have, but if its the 
fixed version (where they got rid of at least a little bit of the 
key-bounce phenom) I wouldn't mind having it....  :)

I just got a DW-8K in very nice shape, so any pieces you'd want to send my 
way for possible repair use in the future would certainly be welcomed.

Also, if you'd like to get rid of the manual, I'd be happy to get it 
scanned and host it for all to use.  This, of course, assumes you have the 
manual.

Josh Landau
Shadow Sound Designs
Radiation Now! Studio

"The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head."

                         - Terry Pratchett       



From mclilith at ezwv.com  Thu Aug 30 07:17:55 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:17:55 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20010830034045.00883818@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010830010316.00920d00@mail.ezwv.com>

Most of you probably know that "flanging" got its name from the practice of
slowing down a reel-to-reel tape deck, by lightly dragging one's finger on
the "flange" of the tape reel, slowing it down in comparison to another
tape deck playing a copy of the same tape at the same time.

Does anyone know if any flangers were ever built that employed tape as the
delay mechanism? I'm speaking of a purpose-built machine that would take
the place of the original, improvised two-deck concept.

Would it be worthwhile to try and build something like this? This would
certainly be an analog solution, even more so than BBD's, which should
please Harry to no end.  :)


Later,
Glen


From chupacba at tampabay.rr.com  Thu Aug 30 08:08:18 2001
From: chupacba at tampabay.rr.com (l'es chupacabra)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 02:08:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Cool
Message-ID: <000e01c1311a$2ae44c00$25582241@tampabay.rr.com>

http://www.frostwave.com/index2.html

Cool new page Paul!

JP

PS - when do we get a Juno/SH pedal out of you?  or maybe the classic Juno
Roland chorus?  or both :)





From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Aug 30 06:15:42 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 06:15:42
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
Message-ID: <200108301321.f7UDL2J21757@smtp004pub.verizon.net>

I've always wondered:  Once one reel down is momentarily slowed,
how did they 'resynch' the decks so that the difference is
eliminated again?  Drag a finger on the other one?  Sounds 
difficult.  Pardon my naivete...

Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com> wrote:
>Most of you probably know that "flanging" got its name from the practice of
>slowing down a reel-to-reel tape deck, by lightly dragging one's finger on
>the "flange" of the tape reel, slowing it down in comparison to another
>tape deck playing a copy of the same tape at the same time.
>
>Does anyone know if any flangers were ever built that employed tape as the
>delay mechanism? I'm speaking of a purpose-built machine that would take
>the place of the original, improvised two-deck concept.
>
>Would it be worthwhile to try and build something like this? This would
>certainly be an analog solution, even more so than BBD's, which should
>please Harry to no end.  :)
>
>
>Later,
>Glen

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Thu Aug 30 09:47:15 2001
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:47:15 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108292241450.15371-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <3B8DEF83.2BE73384@consol.de>

Hi Matti

> The nord lead and nord modular are important ones. Also, this _is_ diy.
As far as I understood, he is looking for cards to plug into a PC/Mac.


One should also mention Capybara, which is asa far as I know a DSP
Station with an builtin PC that is running Kyma, wich is based on
Csound.

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de


From p8051 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 09:49:06 2001
From: p8051 at yahoo.com (TooManySynths)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010830000318.0289ede8@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <20010830074906.13318.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>

> As I recall, the filter chip in the DW-8K is the
> same as the filter chip in 
> the Poly 800 (could be wrong).  If it is, it's a
> very nice little thing, 
> capable of self-oscillating and so on.

That is correct. I discovered the poly800 schemos on
the web and thought to check to see if it uses the
same chip. I presume at most the poly800, dw6000 and
dw8000 would use this chip. I can't imagine anything
else korg was doing at the time that would use that
particular chip.  In fact, I believe the next major
korg synth post dw8000 was the M1.  


So, a little reverse engineering of the DW circuit
board combined with the POLY800 schematics has given
me some information.  Do any of you know any more than
about this chip. Any question marks you could help me
eliminate would be appreciated.

Pin    function
1      Ground ?
       Schematic says that it is a specific ground
       but I can't read what it says.

2      Level 1 (cv input ?)
       This pin goes to a common bus on the DW
       so it is a control input that would affect
       all voices in a polysynth

3      Level 2 (cv input ?)
       This goes to a pot and to a voice specific
       control point on the DW.

4      Resonance control input
5      Not connected on either synth
6      24db VCF output
       connects to pin seven on the DW, but organized
       differently on the poly800

7      VCA in
       I'm pretty sure this is the signal input
       for the VCA, but then, what is 
       sig1 and sig 2 (see below)

8      VCA log control input
       goes to ground on the DW, but the poly800 
       appears to label this the VCA log input.
       Although I know better, it follows as it is 
       next to the VCA lin input, and the VCF control
       inputs are aligned the same way.

9      VCA lin control input
10     VCA out
       I think this is the VCA output, that's what 
       it's labeled. On the DW it goes into an opamp
       buffer and then out to a voice specific point.
       On the Poly800 it goes to pin 19 which is VCF
       input something or other, but on the DW, pin 
       10 connects through a resistor to a point 
       common to all voices.  So pin 19 is NOT the VCF
       input. (see pin 19 below)

11     VEE,GND (this, I believe is the power ground)
12     VSS, - supply voltage, probably -12 to -15
13     VCF lin control input
14     VCF log control input
15     VCF caps connect these pins to ground
16     |
17     |
18     |
       I have no details on the specifics. In both
       synths these pins go to ground through a
       .001 mf poly cap.

19     Ahh, the mystery pin. On the DW it connects
       through a resistor to a common control point.
       On the p800 I think it connects to pin 10,
       however, the p800 schematic is quite hard to
       read so this may not be right.

20     Sig2 input
21     Sig1 input
22     VCC, + supply voltage, +12 to +15


Ok,Here's what I think, if you know better, please 
correct me.

The audio inputs to the filter should be supplied to
pins 21 and 20. The gain of each input is controlled
by a cv input on pins 2 and 3 respectivily. Resonance
CV input should be supplied to pin 4, cuttoff CV
should be applied to pins 13 and 14 for lin and log
control respectively.  The output of the VCF is taken
from pin 6 and, like on the DW, can be fed right into
pin 7, the VCA input. Note, on the DW it goes through
a np electolytic cap of 10mfd.  The VCA is controlled
via pins 9 and 8 for lin and log control respectively.
The output of the VCA is taken from pin 10 and fed
into whatever opamp buffer you wish.  

Pins 1 and 11 go to ground, pins 12 and 22 go to
negative and positive power respectively.  Pins 15
through 18 connect to ground through .001 mfd poly
caps. I presume the values can be varied.

Pin 1 is a minor mystery, what does it ground?

The major mystery are pins 5 and 19.  I think both
relate to the VCF, pin 19 should control something,
what I don't know.  Perhaps pin 5 is a 12db output? I
have no idea, I'm just guessing.

Any help would be apprecieated.  At least if there
isn't any more info, this much will be in the
archives.

Thanks
Daryl
 

PS: I almost forgot about the firmware request:

> I don't offhand know what version of the firmware
> you have, but if its the 
> fixed version (where they got rid of at least a
> little bit of the 
> key-bounce phenom) I wouldn't mind having it....  :)

The bad news is, I have no idea.  Further, since I was
in need of a 27C512 to upgrade the os in my regelwerk,
I scraped half of the label off checking only to find
out it was not a 27c512.  

Tell me how I'd know which rev it is?

Thanks
Daryl



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
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From prospective_volition at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 30 09:50:05 2001
From: prospective_volition at hotmail.com (Prospective Volition)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:50:05 +1200
Subject: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax
Message-ID: <F173sXCLqi3KvyG2J2F00007765@hotmail.com>

Hi there

Anyone have a circuit for a spdif optical to RCA converter?

Thanks

Vol

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Thu Aug 30 10:02:00 2001
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:02:00 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
References: <4.1.20010830010316.00920d00@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <3B8DF2F8.53597E8F@consol.de>

Hi Glen,

I remember some add on LFOs to syncable tape machines.

I do this always with my korg SDD1200, both channels on the same delay
and one with LFO modulation - it's really nice to have the comb filter
running over the peak.

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de


From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Thu Aug 30 12:00:34 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:00:34 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll y
	our own!
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF029@exchange1.intermetall.de>

Their protofolio sounds good.
I couldn't find anything about costs.

How much will a mask set cost? (maybe 2 or 3 redesigns will be needed)
How much will wafers cost if you only need 1 or 2?
How to do wafer test? Cost?
Assembly cost?
Final test cost?

m.c.


> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Darren Reid [mailto:shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. August 2001 19:07
> An: DIY Synth List
> Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you 
> want - roll
> your own!
> 
> 
> "Alex" <alex at xatomic.ch> sez:
> 
> >But here come's what you might be looking for:
> >They also offer a CAD software which's called "Target Chip Designer"
> >With this program you can design your own ASICs (Analog and 
> Mixed Signal)
> >and then you can send the file directly to "Prema Semiconductors"
> >(http://www.prema.com)
> >which produce the chips for you.
> >
> >Sounds nice, but actually I wasn't able to find out minimum 
> amount of ICs
> >you have to order and
> >the costs.
> 
> This is exactly the sort of thing that many folks here would 
> be interested
> in. Wouldn't it be a hoot to design our own chips for SDIY? A 
> collaborative
> project would be a lot of fun.
> 
> One possible idea that might bring this into the realm of 
> "cost efficiency"
> might be something like what they did at Delft University:
> http://cas.et.tudelft.nl/software/ocean/
> 
> Here's some relevant info:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Appendix A: Background of OCEAN
> OCEAN is the result of a joint effort of many people from the 
> Electrical
> Engineering Faculty at Delft University of Technology. It is 
> based to a
> large extent on the NELSIS IC design system and database. 
> This full-custom
> system was developed over the past 10 years at Delft 
> University, especially
> in the Network Theory group. To handle sea-of-gates design, 
> new tools were
> created and other tools were modified. Most of this work was 
> performed as a
> result of the IOP sea-of-gates project, which started 4 years 
> ago. The main
> drive to make the package more user-friendly was the advent of the new
> curriculum for EE students. The latter included a practical 
> design course in
> which the students design a complex circuit in a group, simulating a
> commercial environment. This course started september 1992 
> for the first
> time and has been quite successful.
> Why sea-of-gates??
> The OCEAN design system is targeted to produce sea-of-gates 
> layout. This
> means that they deal with a prefabricated transistor pattern 
> on the chip. To
> implement a circuit, the tools (or the designer, for that matter)
> interconnect these transistors with metal wires. Our 
> sea-of-gates layout
> strategy aims at four goals:
>  1. Minimization of the fabrication time. Because the chips are
>     prefabricated (the transistors are already on the master 
> image), the
>     silicon foundry only processes the masks related to metal wires.
> 
>  2. Minimization of the design time. The time involved in 
> designing a cell
>     layout is reduced dramatically (as compared to 
> full-custom) because the
>     transistors are preplaced on the image. Typically, it 
> takes only a few
>     minutes to layout a flipflop or a combinatorial gate, and 
> the designer
>     does not need to know anything about the process design rules.
> 
>  3. Minimization of the chip cost. The layout design starts with a
>     prefabricated master image. This is a semi-manufactured 
> article that
>     can be produced in large quantities. At Delft University 
> of Technology
>     we have 150 wafers for the 'fishbone' image in stock.
> 
>  4. Full-custom properties on Semi-Custom chips: Efficient 
> implementation
>     of structured logic (RAM, PLA etc.). In contrast to the 
> conventional
>     gate-array, a sea-of-gates does not have pre-defined 
> routing channels.
>     This enables a much more compact and clean implementation of
>     structured circuits such as processors.
> 
> The OCEAN suite of tools handles a wide variety of sea-of-gates master
> images and process technologies. The tools MADONNA (the 
> placer), TROUT (the
> router) and FISH (purifier and design rule checker) handle the various
> peculiarities of the images to produce optimal layout.
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
> 
> Would this be a good way to design analog audio circuits, for example
> filters?
> 
> -Darren
> 


From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Thu Aug 30 12:20:49 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:20:49 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll y
	our own!
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF02A@exchange1.intermetall.de>

> it with a CNC mill.You can figure out exactly what the 
> content of the chip

Well. this may work for the matal layers, and perhaps the poly layer, too.
But Well, N-implant and P-Implant etc. look exactly the same after milling
it down. Special chemical preparation will be needed to make these
observeable.

We "reverse" engineer only our own chips (ie. we look into rejected
or otherwise malfunctioning parts in order to find out what went
wrong and to improove).

The procedure is something like:
Plastic encapsulation is jet etched.
Metall Layers are chemical etched.
Then substrate is etched in various ways.
AFAIK no mechanical milling steps are involved here,
but could turn out usefull.
Additional methods are x-ray and ion-beam milling,
the later could be regarded as mechanical milling in nano world.

All I wanted to say is that you must be skilled, need good recipies
a lot of talent and patience. Deep burried layers as in 
bipolar processes can cause special grievance.
It is a lot of work. If you pay a third party doing it,
it will therefore cost 10000s of $.

And if it comes to measurement: it is already a hard work
to measure something meaningfull on your own designs.

If you finally have all the layers (assuming you know the process),
you'll have to draw a schematic and understand the circuit.
This can be non trivial as well.

Historical note:
It is possible to successfully reverse engineer, some people
in the former GDR spend a good deal of their working life
reverse engineering western technology. Later on these
chips were produced in the east and got strange names
like L110 etc.
(buy this I won't say that all of their electronic
stuff was "stolen")
Even today they are about the best people you can get
for this job.

m.c.


From p8051 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 12:29:33 2001
From: p8051 at yahoo.com (TooManySynths)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 03:29:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fwd: Re: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
Message-ID: <20010830102933.24364.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

My 2069 Filter seems to be, well, um filtering so I
thought I'd pass along what I've found out in case
anyone else cares.  I'm forwarding this to AH, if it's
old news, well it ought to be in the archives. Several
people have asked but I have yet to see any response.

> > As I recall, the filter chip in the DW-8K is the
> > same as the filter chip in 
> > the Poly 800 (could be wrong).  If it is, it's a
> > very nice little thing, 
> > capable of self-oscillating and so on.
> 
> That is correct. I discovered the poly800 schemos on
> the web and thought to check to see if it uses the
> same chip. I presume at most the poly800, dw6000 and
> dw8000 would use this chip. I can't imagine anything
> else korg was doing at the time that would use that
> particular chip.  In fact, I believe the next major
> korg synth post dw8000 was the M1.  
> 
> 
> So, a little reverse engineering of the DW circuit
> board combined with the POLY800 schematics has given
> me some information.  Do any of you know any more
> than
> about this chip. Any question marks you could help
> me
> eliminate would be appreciated.
> 
> Pin    function
> 1      Ground ?
>        Schematic says that it is a specific ground
>        but I can't read what it says.
> 
> 2      Level 1 (cv input ?)
>        This pin goes to a common bus on the DW
>        so it is a control input that would affect
>        all voices in a polysynth
> 
> 3      Level 2 (cv input ?)
>        This goes to a pot and to a voice specific
>        control point on the DW.
> 
> 4      Resonance control input
> 5      Not connected on either synth

Update: It is an output of some sort. It sounds like
something less than 24db filter, but then again, what
do I know.  I'm sticking with my guess that it is a
12db/ocatve out. I don't have the skills to really
test this. Well, I have an idea how, but I don't have
the paitence, if you know, please fill us in.  If you
want to build a filter with this chip, you might want
both outputs available.

> 6      24db VCF output
>        connects to pin seven on the DW, but
>        organized
>        differently on the poly800
> 
> 7      VCA in
>        I'm pretty sure this is the signal input
>        for the VCA, but then, what is 
>        sig1 and sig 2 (see below)
> 
> 8      VCA log control input
>        goes to ground on the DW, but the poly800 
>        appears to label this the VCA log input.
>        Although I know better, it follows as it is 
>        next to the VCA lin input, and the VCF
>        control
>        inputs are aligned the same way.
> 
> 9      VCA lin control input
> 10     VCA out
>        I think this is the VCA output, that's what 
>        it's labeled. On the DW it goes into an opamp
>        buffer and then out to a voice specific
>        point.
>        On the Poly800 it goes to pin 19 which is VCF
>        input something or other, but on the DW, pin 
>        10 connects through a resistor to a point 
>        common to all voices.  So pin 19 is NOT the
>        VCF input. (see pin 19 below)

Ok, I'm not sure what the DW is doing. BUT, pin 19
seems to be the output from the two channel mixer AND
the input to the VCF.  Makes sense really, but I don't
know what the DW is doing via it's common, albeit,
resistor isolated, connection.
> 
> 11     VEE,GND (this, I believe is the power ground)
> 12     VSS, - supply voltage, probably -12 to -15
> 13     VCF lin control input
> 14     VCF log control input
> 15     VCF caps connect these pins to ground
> 16     |
> 17     |
> 18     |
>        I have no details on the specifics. In both
>        synths these pins go to ground through a
>        .001 mf poly cap.
> 
> 19     Ahh, the mystery pin. On the DW it connects
>        through a resistor to a common control point.
>        On the p800 I think it connects to pin 10,
>        however, the p800 schematic is quite hard to
>        read so this may not be right.

See above, pin 19 is the VCF input.

> 
> 20     Sig2 input
> 21     Sig1 input
> 22     VCC, + supply voltage, +12 to +15
> 
> 
> Ok,Here's what I think, if you know better, please 
> correct me.
> 
> The audio inputs to the filter should be supplied to
> pins 21 and 20. The gain of each input is controlled
> by a cv input on pins 2 and 3 respectivily.
> Resonance
> CV input should be supplied to pin 4, cuttoff CV
> should be applied to pins 13 and 14 for lin and log
> control respectively.  The output of the VCF is
> taken
> from pin 6 and, like on the DW, can be fed right
> into
> pin 7, the VCA input. Note, on the DW it goes
> through
> a np electolytic cap of 10mfd.  The VCA is
> controlled
> via pins 9 and 8 for lin and log control
> respectively.
> The output of the VCA is taken from pin 10 and fed
> into whatever opamp buffer you wish.  

This is all true, for a simper circuit, just feed the
input into pin 19 and skip the two channel mixer.

> 
> Pins 1 and 11 go to ground, pins 12 and 22 go to
> negative and positive power respectively.  Pins 15
> through 18 connect to ground through .001 mfd poly
> caps. I presume the values can be varied.
> 
> Pin 1 is a minor mystery, what does it ground?

About the only remaining pin mystery, since my filter
is making sick nasty sounds this very minute, I don't
really care, it's just gonna be grounded on my filter.
 
> The major mystery are pins 5 and 19.  I think both
> relate to the VCF, pin 19 should control something,
> what I don't know.  Perhaps pin 5 is a 12db output?
> I
> have no idea, I'm just guessing.

I'd still like to know for sure on pin 5.

> Any help would be appreciated.  At least if there
> isn't any more info, this much will be in the
> archives.
> 
> Thanks
> Daryl

Hope this helps someone else in the future.  If korg
has the data sheet readily available, just call me
dumb, it was a lot of fun anyways.

Later
Daryl



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From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Thu Aug 30 12:39:50 2001
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:39:50 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
In-Reply-To: <F173sXCLqi3KvyG2J2F00007765@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJMKIGLMKFFANIMJBCEOHCEAA.np@inverse-entertainment.de>


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Anyone have a circuit for a spdif optical to RCA converter?


Funny..

I'm looking for the exact opposite. Want to use my Johnson JStation and
directly record into my computer.. Problem is, that it only has a
non-optical output, and these are not that common on pc soundcards.

Any schemantics anyone?

(or even some experiences with cheap but good commercial built units?).

	Nils



From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Thu Aug 30 12:44:44 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:44:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] rev eng -> fwd eng?
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF02B@exchange1.intermetall.de>

I know I'll get flamed for this one, but I have to:

AFAIK the discrete emulations of analog gear are not the result of
thoroughly analysis of the circuits.

Let me show what I mean with an example:
I GUESS that a four pole filter is turned into a four pole (plus
four zeros) filter by the usual bilinear transform for example,
which would be a very crude approximation because all the nonlinear
effects are simply dropped, and new problems are introduced
due to the frequency warping etc. Of course this shortcomming is
noticed by the manufacturers, and some nonlinear device will
be placed before the lp filter to get back some of the "juice".
We all know that this approach will not cover all the details
that were discussed e.g. for the Moog ladder.


Now, in the recent years there has been a lot of research,
also on this list, and computing power has shown no deviation
from Moore's law so far. I think we're at the edge where a full
blown circuit simulation with very high internal sampling rate
is possible, ie. emulation by "SPICE" simulation.
Perhaps the modells of the simulator could be simplified
to a certain degree. My idea is that this would bring
emulations a lot more closer to the original if not so
close that no difference on solo lines (no other "instruments")
is audible. 

In this case I would consider the emulation as 100% perfect.
In this case analog circuits would make no sense to me any
longer (for playing, not for development).

So far I have never seen or read about any attempt of that kind.
I'm no expert for continuous circuit simulation, I just use
these tools. 
Where is the pittfall?
Are there spice models of tubes?
I guess that a step width of 1000ns should be enough in most cases,
given that the modells are simplified (e.g. very high frequency poles).
This means internal sampling rate of 1MHz (sampling rate, not
chip clock rate, this is still very demanding).
Do you think that this high computational effort will stop
this idea?

And finally: 

A lot of people have done SPICE simulations on various structures.
Have you ever thought about LISTENING to the output?
(this requires downsampling, no magic).

m.c.


From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Thu Aug 30 12:48:21 2001
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:48:21 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cool
References: <000e01c1311a$2ae44c00$25582241@tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3B8E19F5.32F4814C@consol.de>

> http://www.frostwave.com/index2.html
> Cool new page Paul!
very uncool page... the select product arrow point to nirwana -> first
develop cool plugins that work on all(!) browsers and platforms -> then
develop cool pages...

Sorry, I left this page since I am not attracted by not working
shockwave pages using linux/freebsd/sunos/hpux with browsers like Opera
or Netscape.

In the eighties every one complained about the incompatibility of
V/Hz-synths; looks like not everyone learned...

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de


From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Thu Aug 30 14:15:47 2001
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:15:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
References: <20010830013337.15037.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>
		 <001901c130fd$8b78e660$9e2b2104@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20010830000318.0289ede8@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <3B8E2E73.EA0E30A9@eunet.yu>

the nice transformer/ps that will fit into a 1u case.
> 
> As I recall, the filter chip in the DW-8K is the same as the filter chip in
> the Poly 800 (could be wrong).  If it is, it's a very nice little thing,
> capable of self-oscillating and so on.
> 

Yes, it's Korg's custom filter chip used in Poly/EX-800 and DW range of
synths (maybe some more too). It's very nice VCF (best part of poly800!)
easily adopted to work standalone. I use it in my poly800 as ext
processor.
It has 4 pole (prob OTA) VCF, with VC resonance, 24 and 12 pole outputs,
built in VCA (in poly 800 it's used for noise level) with lin and log CV
inputs, and two input VC mixer. Very powerful processor indeed. And nice
resonance/selfoscillation. There's poly800 schem online, take the look
at
it and it's pretty straightforward. Only one pin is missing from the
schemo - it's 12db/oct out. 

-- 



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure


From krhen at stucki.com  Thu Aug 30 14:53:29 2001
From: krhen at stucki.com (Rhen, Kris)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:53:29 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Cool
Message-ID: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A0D1@stu-nt1.stucki.com>

> > http://www.frostwave.com/index2.html
> > Cool new page Paul!
> very uncool page... the select product arrow point to nirwana -> first
> develop cool plugins that work on all(!) browsers and 
> platforms -> then develop cool pages...
> 
> Sorry, I left this page since I am not attracted by not working
> shockwave pages using linux/freebsd/sunos/hpux with browsers 
> like Opera or Netscape.
> 
> In the eighties every one complained about the incompatibility of
> V/Hz-synths; looks like not everyone learned...

Yeah be sure and spend thousands of dollars and hours more developing
something for the < 0.5% of linux/freebsd/sunos/hpux users out there
(http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp).

Nice pages!
KRIS


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From jlarryh at iquest.net  Thu Aug 30 15:02:29 2001
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:02:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
References: <NFBBJMKIGLMKFFANIMJBCEOHCEAA.np@inverse-entertainment.de>
Message-ID: <001b01c13154$07610fe0$65492bd1@oemcomputer>

Fostex makes a very nice bi-directional converter.  It has one in and one
out each for the optical and coaxial connectors.
The Fostex model # is COP-1.  It is very small (pack of cigarettes size) and
uses an external DC wall wart.

Larry Hendry


----- Original Message -----
From: Nils Pipenbrinck <np at inverse-entertainment.de>
To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:39 AM
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Anyone have a circuit for a spdif optical to RCA converter?


Funny..

I'm looking for the exact opposite. Want to use my Johnson JStation and
directly record into my computer.. Problem is, that it only has a
non-optical output, and these are not that common on pc soundcards.

Any schemantics anyone?

(or even some experiences with cheap but good commercial built units?).

Nils





From debus at cityweb.de  Thu Aug 30 16:25:12 2001
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:25:12 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
References: <NFBBJMKIGLMKFFANIMJBCEOHCEAA.np@inverse-entertainment.de>
Message-ID: <3B8E4CC8.4A771118@cityweb.de>



Nils Pipenbrinck wrote:
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Anyone have a circuit for a spdif optical to RCA converter?
> 
> Funny..
> 
> I'm looking for the exact opposite. Want to use my Johnson JStation and
> directly record into my computer.. Problem is, that it only has a
> non-optical output, and these are not that common on pc soundcards.
> 
> Any schemantics anyone?

It's easy to build an optical S/PDIF input or output into a device that
already has a cinch one. Just trace the circuit to the point where the
signal is TTL level. At the cinch jack the signal is lower level,
usually there's a little transformer in between. At the TTL point a TOTX
(transmitter) rsp. TORX (receiver) can be connected directly. For an
input, a switch can be added to toggle between electrical and optical
input. Outputs can operate both at the same time. I've done this with my
CD player, it was easy and works well.

Ingo




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu Aug 30 16:31:22 2001
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:31:22 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Cool/uncool Frostwave OT
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010830143122.00881ec8@popa.melbpc.org.au>

thanks for the pos & neg feeedback re www.frostwave.com, but...
it isn't actually *MY* site, it is a site run by a retailer 
(warmcola.com), and, it definitely has problems.....
I'm always keen to get comments, which I pass on. But, it is 
nothing to do with DIY!!

Here's an poem from Pynchon's novel 'V', called
"Gowin Cross the Eccles-Jordan":

Set-Reset
we are beset
with crazy and cool
in the same molecule

paul perry (frostwave) Melbourne Australia



From sdcurtin at agere.com  Thu Aug 30 16:31:48 2001
From: sdcurtin at agere.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:31:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
Message-ID: <87008FA36E57F041AB826576738ADF5901494E6C@NJ8650EXCUAG01.ags.agere.com>

There's also the MIDIMAN CO-2.  This is around $60 or so, but must be very
simple in operation, possibly just a photodetector and buffer.

Steve C

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Curtin  
Agere Systems (formerly
Lucent Technologies Microelectronics)
ph: (732)949-4404   fax: (732)949-6711
http://curtin.emf.org
sdcurtin at agere.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> ----------
> From: 	J. Larry Hendry[SMTP:jlarryh at iquest.net]
> Sent: 	Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:02 AM
> To: 	Nils Pipenbrinck; Synth DIY
> Subject: 	Re: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
> 
> Fostex makes a very nice bi-directional converter.  It has one in and one
> out each for the optical and coaxial connectors.
> The Fostex model # is COP-1.  It is very small (pack of cigarettes size)
> and
> uses an external DC wall wart.
> 
> Larry Hendry
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nils Pipenbrinck <np at inverse-entertainment.de>
> To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:39 AM
> Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Anyone have a circuit for a spdif optical to RCA converter?
> 
> 
> Funny..
> 
> I'm looking for the exact opposite. Want to use my Johnson JStation and
> directly record into my computer.. Problem is, that it only has a
> non-optical output, and these are not that common on pc soundcards.
> 
> Any schemantics anyone?
> 
> (or even some experiences with cheap but good commercial built units?).
> 
> Nils
> 
> 
> 


From mclilith at ezwv.com  Thu Aug 30 17:28:06 2001
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:28:06 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
In-Reply-To: <200108301321.f7UDL2J21757@smtp004pub.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010830112039.014efc70@mail.ezwv.com>

At 02:15 AM 8/30/01 , Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>I've always wondered:  Once one reel down is momentarily slowed,
>how did they 'resynch' the decks so that the difference is
>eliminated again?  Drag a finger on the other one?  Sounds 
>difficult.  Pardon my naivete...

If I understand it correctly, they would first slow one deck, and then slow
the other one. This process was repeated over and over, for as long as they
needed the flanging effect. If they needed to perfectly synch the sound, or
eliminate the flanging effect, it would always be simple to fade down the
volume of one of the decks, leaving only one of them audible.

Yes, this does sound difficult, but I believe this was how it was done
before purpose-built "flangers" were invented.


Later,
Glen


From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Thu Aug 30 18:00:31 2001
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:00:31 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] What is a korg 2069AD?
References: <20010830074906.13318.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B8E631F.C3276900@eunet.yu>


Hi there,

> 
> Pin    function
> 1      Ground ?
>        Schematic says that it is a specific ground
>        but I can't read what it says.
> 


IN GND, it's gnd for vcf input from ext source


> 2      Level 1 (cv input ?)


CV for level of input 1 in VC Mixer - you determine
input amount with CV.

> 
> 3      Level 2 (cv input ?)

CV for level of input 2

> 
> 4      Resonance control input
> 5      Not connected on either synth

12db/oct output

> 6      24db VCF output
>        connects to pin seven on the DW, but organized
>        differently on the poly800

As I said, Poly800 doesn't use built in VCA as main
VCA, rather as attenuator for noise volume.
DW prob uses it as it's supposed, main VCA

> 
> 7      VCA in
>        I'm pretty sure this is the signal input
>        for the VCA, but then, what is
>        sig1 and sig 2 (see below)


this is direct input to VCA

> 
> 8      VCA log control input
>        goes to ground on the DW, but the poly800
>        appears to label this the VCA log input.

AS it says log CV input for VCA part. Makes different
volume (VCA) response than lin input. Not used in p800.

> 
> 9      VCA lin control input


VCA lin CV input.


> 10     VCA out
>        I think this is the VCA output, that's what
>        it's labeled. On the DW it goes into an opamp
>        buffer and then out to a voice specific point.
>        On the Poly800 it goes to pin 19 which is VCF
>        input something or other, but on the DW, pin
>        10 connects through a resistor to a point
>        common to all voices.  So pin 19 is NOT the VCF
>        input. (see pin 19 below)

main VCA output. DW uses it as it should be, but p800
it's attenuator for noise so it's being mixed into
vcf. Poly800 has separate "VCA" for each osc and vcf,
but those are made thru software envelopes not analog
cct. You can look at it as third input to 2069's VC 
mixer, as those are just two OTAs mixed.

> 
> 11     VEE,GND (this, I believe is the power ground)

main GND it is


> 12     VSS, - supply voltage, probably -12 to -15

- supply, not sure for the voltage range

> 13     VCF lin control input

lin CV in, for manual cutoff control (here you hack
manual pot on p800)

> 14     VCF log control input

log cv in, for control CVs

> 15     VCF caps connect these pins to ground
> 16     |
> 17     |
> 18     |

these are the caps for 4 OTAs that determine main
filter range (each filter is RC element, R being
simulated by OTA, it's VC current source and that
cap is C element from the filter).

>        I have no details on the specifics. In both
>        synths these pins go to ground through a
>        .001 mf poly cap.

prob it's preffered value in datasheet 

> 
> 19     Ahh, the mystery pin. On the DW it connects
>        through a resistor to a common control point.
>        On the p800 I think it connects to pin 10,
>        however, the p800 schematic is quite hard to
>        read so this may not be right.

No mystery, it's main audio VCF in

> 
> 20     Sig2 input

audio input of signal 1 for VC mixer

> 21     Sig1 input


audio input of signal 2 for VC mixer


> 22     VCC, + supply voltage, +12 to +15

+ supply

> 
> Ok,Here's what I think, if you know better, please
> correct me.
> 
> The audio inputs to the filter should be supplied to
> pins 21 and 20. The gain of each input is controlled
> by a cv input on pins 2 and 3 respectivily. Resonance
> CV input should be supplied to pin 4, cuttoff CV
> should be applied to pins 13 and 14 for lin and log
> control respectively.  The output of the VCF is taken
> from pin 6 and, like on the DW, can be fed right into
> pin 7, the VCA input. Note, on the DW it goes through
> a np electolytic cap of 10mfd.  The VCA is controlled
> via pins 9 and 8 for lin and log control respectively.
> The output of the VCA is taken from pin 10 and fed
> into whatever opamp buffer you wish.
> 
> Pins 1 and 11 go to ground, pins 12 and 22 go to
> negative and positive power respectively.  Pins 15
> through 18 connect to ground through .001 mfd poly
> caps. I presume the values can be varied.

Maybe smaller values, but, again, 1n is prob most
optimal value

> 
> Pin 1 is a minor mystery, what does it ground?
> 

vcf input gnd

> The major mystery are pins 5 and 19.  I think both
> relate to the VCF, pin 19 should control something,
> what I don't know.  Perhaps pin 5 is a 12db output? I
> have no idea, I'm just guessing.
> 
> Any help would be apprecieated.  At least if there
> isn't any more info, this much will be in the
> archives.
> 

see previous notes


Anyway, you have little audio processing chip in there:
VC mixer (with input and CV for each input, output)
VCF (audio, lin CV, log CV inputs, 4 cap pins, 12 and 24 db/oct
     separate outputs, resonance CV input)
VCA (audio, lin CV, log CV inputs, output)
power (+/-/GND/signal GND)

It's a small modular, you can connect it to your wish (if you use
it outside of the synth, naturally).

I wonder in Korg repairshops have some spares? It'd be nice
VC processing module (add preamp, bufferes, distortion, waveshaper
and PSU and it'd be a killer).
 
-- 



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure


From p8051 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 18:01:44 2001
From: p8051 at yahoo.com (TooManySynths)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:01:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010830112039.014efc70@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <20010830160144.47411.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>

I do not know for sure, because I have no idea how to
flange with tape decks. I expect, however, that it is
a skill much akin to beatmatching, something I can do
fairly well.  After a lot of practice, the corrections
become almost subconscious, what the experienced DJ
hears in terms of obvious beat offset is typically
unheard by an untrained ear.  When I'm hanging out
with non-DJs they frequently can't hear mistakes which
are completely obvious and annoying to me. When a
newbie tries to beatmatch, it seems impossible, after
weeks it seems possible, but they still suck, after
months, they are starting to get it.

Just my .02
Daryl




--- Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com> wrote:
> At 02:15 AM 8/30/01 , Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> >I've always wondered:  Once one reel down is
> momentarily slowed,
> >how did they 'resynch' the decks so that the
> difference is
> >eliminated again?  Drag a finger on the other one? 
> Sounds 
> >difficult.  Pardon my naivete...
> 
> If I understand it correctly, they would first slow
> one deck, and then slow
> the other one. This process was repeated over and
> over, for as long as they
> needed the flanging effect. If they needed to
> perfectly synch the sound, or
> eliminate the flanging effect, it would always be
> simple to fade down the
> volume of one of the decks, leaving only one of them
> audible.
> 
> Yes, this does sound difficult, but I believe this
> was how it was done
> before purpose-built "flangers" were invented.
> 
> 
> Later,
> Glen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com


From don at till.com  Thu Aug 30 18:07:29 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:07:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] rev eng -> fwd eng?
In-Reply-To: 	<511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF02B@exchange1.intermetall.de>
	(message from Czech Martin on Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:44:44 +0200)
Message-ID: <200108301607.JAA29731@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: Czech Martin <Martin.Czech at Micronas.com>
   Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:44:44 +0200

   AFAIK the discrete emulations of analog gear are not the result of
   thoroughly analysis of the circuits.

I believe that's a fierce understatement.  Most descriptions of
"emulations" that I've seen don't qualify as emulations.  It seems the
digital keyboard biz has removed all meaning from the word.

   I GUESS that a four pole filter is turned into a four pole (plus
   four zeros) filter by the usual bilinear transform for example,
   which would be a very crude approximation because all the nonlinear
   effects are simply dropped, and new problems are introduced
   due to the frequency warping etc.

Right.  That's not an "emulation" -- that's a basic four pole digital
filter. 

   Now, in the recent years there has been a lot of research,
   also on this list, and computing power has shown no deviation
   from Moore's law so far. I think we're at the edge where a full
   blown circuit simulation with very high internal sampling rate
   is possible, ie. emulation by "SPICE" simulation.

I should point out that SPICE is well known for doing a really bad job
of modeling an analog circuit.  There are number of simple and common
circuit configurations that leave SPICE unable to continue.  Or
certain component values will keep SPICE from converging. Robert Pease
devotes significant space in his book "Troubleshooting Analog
Circuits" to ways to get around SPICE problems and interpretting the
results.

   Are there spice models of tubes?

Sure:
  http://www.duncanamps.com/spicevalves.html
  http://www.lynx.bc.ca/~jc/

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Thu Aug 30 18:36:04 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:36:04 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] rev eng -> fwd eng?
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF02F@exchange1.intermetall.de>

> I should point out that SPICE is well known for doing a really bad job
> of modeling an analog circuit.  There are number of simple and common
> circuit configurations that leave SPICE unable to continue.  Or
> certain component values will keep SPICE from converging. Robert Pease
> devotes significant space in his book "Troubleshooting Analog
> Circuits" to ways to get around SPICE problems and interpretting the
> results.

Ok, I know, better replace spice with: nonlinear differetial equation
solver.

It needn't be SPICE if there's something better. I don't use SPICE
either, our homebrew tool is caled CEDUSA, only the netlist syntax
is SPICIAN.

m.c.


From colinf at ntlworld.com  Thu Aug 30 18:54:19 2001
From: colinf at ntlworld.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:54:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20010830034045.00883818@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <000901c13174$692b5760$c6a0ff3e@mshome.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Paul Perry
> Sent: 30 August 2001 04:41
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] pcb
>
> I personally would be happy with a program that just lets you
> import an image of a PCB, and lets you see it superimposed on
> the screen as you lay out, so you are just 'tracing' out the layout.
> Like painting by numbers.
> Anyone know whether Protel 99 lets you do this? Other progs?
>
> (if so, I can see some cut&paste in my future..)

Have you thought of printing out the PCB image on acetate and then taping it
over your monitor while you trace ?

Colin f



From james at ersatzplanet.com  Thu Aug 30 19:00:26 2001
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:00:26 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010830112039.014efc70@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <B7B3BF3A.2576%james@ersatzplanet.com>

on 8/30/01 8:28 AM, Glen at mclilith at ezwv.com wrote:

> At 02:15 AM 8/30/01 , Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>> I've always wondered:  Once one reel down is momentarily slowed,
>> how did they 'resynch' the decks so that the difference is
>> eliminated again?  Drag a finger on the other one?  Sounds
>> difficult.  Pardon my naivete...
> 
> If I understand it correctly, they would first slow one deck, and then slow
> the other one. This process was repeated over and over, for as long as they
> needed the flanging effect. If they needed to perfectly synch the sound, or
> eliminate the flanging effect, it would always be simple to fade down the
> volume of one of the decks, leaving only one of them audible.
> 
> Yes, this does sound difficult, but I believe this was how it was done
> before purpose-built "flangers" were invented.
> 
> 
> Later,
> Glen
> 
Actually the decks were in record mode and monitoring off the tape. The
outputs were then mixed together. The slowed deck would snap back to time
immediately once the finger was removed. The final recording was done on
another deck. It was basically a reel-time operation (pun intended!) You
need three decks to pull it off. Signal parallel to two decks on record,
monitor off the tape (you need two decks to match the delay off the playback
heads), mix these together and record the result to the last deck. This way
you can selectively flange any track of a multi-track recording (as long as
you had at least two decks of the same type (the flanging decks). This was
usually done at final mixdown so the final deck could be a cheaper stereo
master deck. So nowadays, by two tape decks do the flanging with them, and
do the final mix back on your computer. Then time shift the flanged track
back so it's in sync with the other non-flanged tracks. You can easily
veri-speed many older decks. I have done this mod to some older Sony decks
(love stereo tape echo). Just look and see if the deck has a 50Hz/60Hz power
selection switch on it. If it doesn't, chances are the motors are DC. Open
it up an chances you'll find a PCB near the capstan motor that has two
trimpots on it (usually painted to fix their settings). Put a switch around
one of them to a remote pot of the same value and viola!, vari-pitch
recorder. I have a Sony deck that I can bring from 7.5 to dead stop. Works
great. For the flanger, the effect would only happen in a *very* small
range. The finger method works much better.
-James
-- 
James Husted
The ErsatZ Planet
james at ersatzplanet.com
www.ersatzplanet.com




From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu Aug 30 19:25:17 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:25:17 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
References: <20010830160144.47411.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001101c13178$bce2c7e0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Its really simple, and works with 2 record players too.
Play the same record/tape on two decks and start at the "same" time
because of small speed and a start time difference between the decks there
is a massive amount of flanging.
If your skilled in matching beats its possible to influence the amount of
flanging.
Note: influence, not set to an exact value.

Success,
Theo


From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>



> I do not know for sure, because I have no idea how to
> flange with tape decks. I expect, however, that it is
> a skill much akin to beatmatching, something I can do
> fairly well.  After a lot of practice, the corrections
> become almost subconscious, what the experienced DJ
> hears in terms of obvious beat offset is typically
> unheard by an untrained ear.  When I'm hanging out
> with non-DJs they frequently can't hear mistakes which
> are completely obvious and annoying to me. When a
> newbie tries to beatmatch, it seems impossible, after
> weeks it seems possible, but they still suck, after
> months, they are starting to get it.
>
> Just my .02
> Daryl
>
>
>
>
> --- Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com> wrote:
> > At 02:15 AM 8/30/01 , Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> > >I've always wondered:  Once one reel down is
> > momentarily slowed,
> > >how did they 'resynch' the decks so that the
> > difference is
> > >eliminated again?  Drag a finger on the other one?
> > Sounds
> > >difficult.  Pardon my naivete...
> >
> > If I understand it correctly, they would first slow
> > one deck, and then slow
> > the other one. This process was repeated over and
> > over, for as long as they
> > needed the flanging effect. If they needed to
> > perfectly synch the sound, or
> > eliminate the flanging effect, it would always be
> > simple to fade down the
> > volume of one of the decks, leaving only one of them
> > audible.
> >
> > Yes, this does sound difficult, but I believe this
> > was how it was done
> > before purpose-built "flangers" were invented.
> >
> >
> > Later,
> > Glen
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
Messenger
> http://im.yahoo.com
>



From james at ersatzplanet.com  Thu Aug 30 19:31:32 2001
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:31:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
In-Reply-To: <B7B3BF3A.2576%james@ersatzplanet.com>
Message-ID: <B7B3C684.257B%james@ersatzplanet.com>

One thing I forgot to mention about the method I talked about that makes the
tape flange so "heavy" compared to digital means, is that when the finger is
removed, the tape snaps back up to speed but really overshoots the mark and
comes back. This wavy jitter makes for a pitch change *up* from the original
for the time the deck takes to settle in sync. So the flanged deck goes back
and forth in relative time (since both decks are delaying from real time,
the slowed deck bounces forward of the other while settling).

-James

-- 
James Husted
The ErsatZ Planet
james at ersatzplanet.com
www.ersatzplanet.com

 




From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu Aug 30 19:35:23 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:35:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
References: <NFBBJMKIGLMKFFANIMJBCEOHCEAA.np@inverse-entertainment.de>
Message-ID: <005201c1317a$264f8000$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

There has been a circuit for this in Elektor.
Sorry don't know the year, or issue, it was not too resent.
Think they have a search able issue archive online.
http://www.elektor.de

Theo

------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Nils Pipenbrinck <np at inverse-entertainment.de>
To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:39 PM
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.


>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Anyone have a circuit for a spdif optical to RCA converter?
>
>
> Funny..
>
> I'm looking for the exact opposite. Want to use my Johnson JStation and
> directly record into my computer.. Problem is, that it only has a
> non-optical output, and these are not that common on pc soundcards.
>
> Any schemantics anyone?
>
> (or even some experiences with cheap but good commercial built units?).
>
> Nils
>




From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu Aug 30 19:46:45 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:46:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger? (2)
References: <4.1.20010830010316.00920d00@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <00a401c1317b$bcb98da0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Yes but for this to work the decks need to be synced.
If you just play the same recording on two free running decks there will be
flanging even if you don't slowdown one of them.

Theo


From: Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com>

> Most of you probably know that "flanging" got its name from the practice
of
> slowing down a reel-to-reel tape deck, by lightly dragging one's finger on
> the "flange" of the tape reel, slowing it down in comparison to another
> tape deck playing a copy of the same tape at the same time.
>




From shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca  Thu Aug 30 19:50:16 2001
From: shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca (Darren Reid)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:50:16 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
References: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF029@exchange1.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <009601c1317c$3a86c0e0$578da4c6@MIRAMICHI>

"Czech Martin" <Martin.Czech at Micronas.com> asks:

>How much will a mask set cost? (maybe 2 or 3 redesigns will be needed)
>How much will wafers cost if you only need 1 or 2?
>How to do wafer test? Cost?
>Assembly cost?
>Final test cost?

That's what we all wanna know, yup. By the way, I wasn't merely suggesting
that this school would be a way of doing this: I was thinking more along the
lines that the *process* might be useful i.e. the whole concept of partially
pre-engineered wafers ala fishbone.

-Darren



From jhaible at t-online.de  Thu Aug 30 19:52:22 2001
From: jhaible at t-online.de (jhaible at t-online.de)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:52:22 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
Message-ID: <999193642.3b8e7c2a1534e@webmail.t-online.de>


> One thing I forgot to mention about the method I talked 
> about that makes the 
> tape flange so "heavy" compared to digital means, is that 
> when the finger is 
> removed, the tape snaps back up to speed but really 
> overshoots the mark and 
> comes back. This wavy jitter makes for a pitch change 
> *up* from the original 
> for the time the deck takes to settle in sync. So the 
> flanged deck goes back 
> and forth in relative time (since both decks are delaying 
> from real time, 
> the slowed deck bounces forward of the other while 
> settling). 

This is what Eventide tried to emulate with the "Bounce"
knob on their Instant Flanger. I have used this feature in my
"Storm Tide" flanger as well (practically unchanged) and
I like it a lot.

http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_storm_tide_flanger.html
(Look for Point 5., "Bounce") and see the circuit here:
http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/jh_storm_tide_1.pdf

JH.


From moho at mohodisco.com  Thu Aug 30 20:09:05 2001
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:09:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Cool
In-Reply-To: <3B8E19F5.32F4814C@consol.de>
References: <000e01c1311a$2ae44c00$25582241@tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830110843.02b8bd80@mohodisco.com>

My my, aren't we pretentious today!

Lava

At 12:48 PM 8/30/01 +0200, Florian Anwander wrote:
> > http://www.frostwave.com/index2.html
> > Cool new page Paul!
>very uncool page... the select product arrow point to nirwana -> first
>develop cool plugins that work on all(!) browsers and platforms -> then
>develop cool pages...
>
>Sorry, I left this page since I am not attracted by not working
>shockwave pages using linux/freebsd/sunos/hpux with browsers like Opera
>or Netscape.
>
>In the eighties every one complained about the incompatibility of
>V/Hz-synths; looks like not everyone learned...
>
>Florian
>--
>Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
>Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
>Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
>email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de



From urosuros at bitsyu.net  Thu Aug 30 20:13:40 2001
From: urosuros at bitsyu.net (UrosM)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:13:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] rev eng -> fwd eng?
References: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF02B@exchange1.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <3B8E8254.63BB711B@bitsyu.net>

***summer exam hell mode off***

Hi Martin and rest of the bunch
> I know I'll get flamed for this one, but I have to:
> 
> AFAIK the discrete emulations of analog gear are not the result of
> thoroughly analysis of the circuits.
IMHO very true 

> Let me show what I mean with an example:
> I GUESS 
dont guess , that's the way it is

that a four pole filter is turned into a four pole (plus
> four zeros) filter by the usual bilinear transform for example,
> which would be a very crude approximation because all the nonlinear
> effects are simply dropped, and new problems are introduced
> due to the frequency warping etc. Of course this shortcomming is
> noticed by the manufacturers, and some nonlinear device will
> be placed before the lp filter to get back some of the "juice".
> We all know that this approach will not cover all the details
> that were discussed e.g. for the Moog ladder.

I will even dare to say that this will not cover any
important details ( particularly when we talk about
Moog ladder which is my favorite argument against 
virtual analogs from engineering point of view ). 
IMHO filters should be approached as nonlinear systems from
the start .

> 
> Now, in the recent years there has been a lot of research,
> also on this list, and computing power has shown no deviation
> from Moore's law so far. I think we're at the edge where a full
> blown circuit simulation with very high internal sampling rate
> is possible, ie. emulation by "SPICE" simulation.
> 
> So far I have never seen or read about any attempt of that kind.
> I'm no expert for continuous circuit simulation, I just use
> these tools.
> Where is the pittfall?

I will point out to different approach which recently
appeared and which could be much more effective .
http://www.tele.ntnu.no/akustikk/meetings/DAFx99/schattschneider.pdf
For people who don't want to read it :
it is possible to obtain something equivalent of impulse
response of NONLINEAR time invariant system with MEMORY
( read it reactive elements ). By using
laguerre orthogonal basis , multidimensional convolution
would be computationally effective and result would be
equivalent of passing signal trough such system .
important facts : this particular approach is bandlimited
by its nature and you DONT NEED TO KNOW interior of that
nonlinear system ( i.e.. you only need real moog filter
and synced DAC/ADC ).
This technique requires time invariance but I think
it would be possible to achieve time variant equivalent .
( not sure about that cos I'm not familiar with some
parts of nonlinear math involved ).

But I would like to point out to another important
aspect , what ever approach in modeling you take :
analog is not only about nonlinearity . Semiconductors
are governed by statistical physics . I tend to view
analog filter as chaotic system with lot of random variables
involved ( Chaotic ? Well , I vividly remember that Harry
once mentioned suboctave effects on his MS20 filter clone
suboctave->periode doubling->chaotic system , right ?).
Such system would be several orders of magnitude harder to
model .
Is this statistical approach relevant : IMHO it sure is
if you guys can hear difference between real VCO and 
software oscillator .
Or to put it in another words : great majority of people
think that that horror on MTV is music . They could not
differ bass drum from flute , not to mention analog vs emulation.

urosh

***summer exam hell mode on***


From sdcurtin at agere.com  Thu Aug 30 20:27:44 2001
From: sdcurtin at agere.com (Curtin, Steven D (Steven))
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:27:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
Message-ID: <87008FA36E57F041AB826576738ADF5901494E70@NJ8650EXCUAG01.ags.agere.com>

Thanks!  The cumulative index for 2000 shows the following entry:

Coaxial S/PDIF Output - month 07 - page 97
Optical S/PDIF Output  - month 07 - page 68

Does anyone have this issue?  (7/2000)


Steve C

> ----------
> From: 	Theo[SMTP:t.hogers at home.nl]
> Sent: 	Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:35 PM
> To: 	Nils Pipenbrinck; Synth DIY
> Subject: 	Re: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
> 
> There has been a circuit for this in Elektor.
> Sorry don't know the year, or issue, it was not too resent.
> Think they have a search able issue archive online.
> http://www.elektor.de
> 
> Theo
> 
> ------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nils Pipenbrinck <np at inverse-entertainment.de>
> To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:39 PM
> Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
> 
> 
> >
> > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > Anyone have a circuit for a spdif optical to RCA converter?
> >
> >
> > Funny..
> >
> > I'm looking for the exact opposite. Want to use my Johnson JStation and
> > directly record into my computer.. Problem is, that it only has a
> > non-optical output, and these are not that common on pc soundcards.
> >
> > Any schemantics anyone?
> >
> > (or even some experiences with cheap but good commercial built units?).
> >
> > Nils
> >
> 
> 


From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Thu Aug 30 20:31:51 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:31:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
In-Reply-To: <001101c13178$bce2c7e0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
References: <20010830160144.47411.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830133055.064837d0@mailhub.verio.net>

I thought Eno/Fripp referred to this as phasing.... I thought there was 
more to flanging than this.

Joshua

At 12:25 PM 8/30/01, you wrote:
>Its really simple, and works with 2 record players too.
>Play the same record/tape on two decks and start at the "same" time
>because of small speed and a start time difference between the decks there
>is a massive amount of flanging.
>If your skilled in matching beats its possible to influence the amount of
>flanging.
>Note: influence, not set to an exact value.
>
>Success,
>Theo
>
>
>From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>
>
>
>
> > I do not know for sure, because I have no idea how to
> > flange with tape decks. I expect, however, that it is
> > a skill much akin to beatmatching, something I can do
> > fairly well.  After a lot of practice, the corrections
> > become almost subconscious, what the experienced DJ
> > hears in terms of obvious beat offset is typically
> > unheard by an untrained ear.  When I'm hanging out
> > with non-DJs they frequently can't hear mistakes which
> > are completely obvious and annoying to me. When a
> > newbie tries to beatmatch, it seems impossible, after
> > weeks it seems possible, but they still suck, after
> > months, they are starting to get it.
> >
> > Just my .02
> > Daryl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com> wrote:
> > > At 02:15 AM 8/30/01 , Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> > > >I've always wondered:  Once one reel down is
> > > momentarily slowed,
> > > >how did they 'resynch' the decks so that the
> > > difference is
> > > >eliminated again?  Drag a finger on the other one?
> > > Sounds
> > > >difficult.  Pardon my naivete...
> > >
> > > If I understand it correctly, they would first slow
> > > one deck, and then slow
> > > the other one. This process was repeated over and
> > > over, for as long as they
> > > needed the flanging effect. If they needed to
> > > perfectly synch the sound, or
> > > eliminate the flanging effect, it would always be
> > > simple to fade down the
> > > volume of one of the decks, leaving only one of them
> > > audible.
> > >
> > > Yes, this does sound difficult, but I believe this
> > > was how it was done
> > > before purpose-built "flangers" were invented.
> > >
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Glen
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
>Messenger
> > http://im.yahoo.com
> >

Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:goodtimetribe]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From PMvN at gmx.net  Thu Aug 30 21:30:35 2001
From: PMvN at gmx.net (Paul van Nugteren)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:30:35 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM
Message-ID: <17060.999199835@www57.gmx.net>

I've been listening to the mp3s on www.synthtech.com/motm (with a broadband
connection it's click and hear in realtime, great), thinking wow, gotta have
that, gotta have this, and that... but what's that pure saw wave mp3 from the
motm 300 sound distorted or am I used to clean digital saw waves? And those
"side bands" created by the motm 110, I've heared it before but how is it
created?

Thanks,

Paul

-- 
Windows: Where do you want to go today?
Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
BeOS: Where do you want to Be tomorrow?

Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net



From p8051 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 21:50:58 2001
From: p8051 at yahoo.com (TooManySynths)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:50:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
In-Reply-To: <001101c13178$bce2c7e0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010830195058.70892.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com>


Well, now that the technique has been described, it's
not really the same thing. I wasn't so much asking how
to flange with tape, frankly, it isn't that
interesting to me.  My example was intended to show
that skills that seem impossible at first glance seem
more possible with practice.  

Later
Daryl

--- Theo <t.hogers at home.nl> wrote:
> Its really simple, and works with 2 record players
> too.
> Play the same record/tape on two decks and start at
> the "same" time
> because of small speed and a start time difference
> between the decks there
> is a massive amount of flanging.
> If your skilled in matching beats its possible to
> influence the amount of
> flanging.
> Note: influence, not set to an exact value.
> 
> Success,
> Theo
> 
> 
> From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>
> 
> 
> 
> > I do not know for sure, because I have no idea how
> to
> > flange with tape decks. I expect, however, that it
> is
> > a skill much akin to beatmatching, something I can
> do
> > fairly well.  After a lot of practice, the
> corrections
> > become almost subconscious, what the experienced
> DJ
> > hears in terms of obvious beat offset is typically
> > unheard by an untrained ear.  When I'm hanging out
> > with non-DJs they frequently can't hear mistakes
> which
> > are completely obvious and annoying to me. When a
> > newbie tries to beatmatch, it seems impossible,
> after
> > weeks it seems possible, but they still suck,
> after
> > months, they are starting to get it.
> >
> > Just my .02
> > Daryl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com> wrote:
> > > At 02:15 AM 8/30/01 , Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> > > >I've always wondered:  Once one reel down is
> > > momentarily slowed,
> > > >how did they 'resynch' the decks so that the
> > > difference is
> > > >eliminated again?  Drag a finger on the other
> one?
> > > Sounds
> > > >difficult.  Pardon my naivete...
> > >
> > > If I understand it correctly, they would first
> slow
> > > one deck, and then slow
> > > the other one. This process was repeated over
> and
> > > over, for as long as they
> > > needed the flanging effect. If they needed to
> > > perfectly synch the sound, or
> > > eliminate the flanging effect, it would always
> be
> > > simple to fade down the
> > > volume of one of the decks, leaving only one of
> them
> > > audible.
> > >
> > > Yes, this does sound difficult, but I believe
> this
> > > was how it was done
> > > before purpose-built "flangers" were invented.
> > >
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Glen
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant
> messaging with Yahoo!
> Messenger
> > http://im.yahoo.com
> >
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com


From t.hogers at home.nl  Thu Aug 30 21:59:29 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:59:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger? (3)
References: <4.1.20010830010316.00920d00@mail.ezwv.com> <00a401c1317b$bcb98da0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <06a901c1318e$47f2dc20$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

I had a band mate who was skilled in doing this, but this was a long time
ago.
Now I think of it he didn't sync the decks, but had one deck play a bit
faster then the other.
Then he would slow down the too fast deck with his finger.
Thus making it alternating between playing too slow and too fast.

Theo



From: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>



> Yes but for this to work the decks need to be synced.
> If you just play the same recording on two free running decks there will
be
> flanging even if you don't slowdown one of them.
>
> Theo
>
>
> From: Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com>
>
> > Most of you probably know that "flanging" got its name from the practice
> of
> > slowing down a reel-to-reel tape deck, by lightly dragging one's finger
on
> > the "flange" of the tape reel, slowing it down in comparison to another
> > tape deck playing a copy of the same tape at the same time.
> >
>
>



From synth1 at airmail.net  Thu Aug 30 22:20:30 2001
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:20:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM
References: <17060.999199835@www57.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <001001c13191$36f920c0$71765140@speakeasy.net>

> I've been listening to the mp3s on www.synthtech.com/motm (with a
broadband
> connection it's click and hear in realtime, great), thinking wow, gotta
have
> that, gotta have this, and that... but what's that pure saw wave mp3 from
the
> motm 300 sound distorted or am I used to clean digital saw waves?

It's partly MP3: it doesn't so that good of a job on pure tones. Also, I'll
admit the 2nd saw demo is
not that great (time for more demos).

I asure you, the MOTM-300 saw has no 'distortion'. The OP275 op amps used
are like 0.005% THD.
The integrator uses a dual matched-FET zero-offset buffer.

> "side bands" created by the motm 110, I've heared it before but how is it
> created?

Ring Modulation. The VCA is performing (Xin)(Yin)/25 so you get sum and
difference frequencies.

<<semi-spam alert>>

If you *really* want to hear what a MOTM "sounds like", go to www.rrich.com
and order the all-MOTM CD
'Bestiary'. You won't be disappointed! Here is one comment I got today:

Last week, Paul S. recommended R.Rich's new cd, "bestiary," since it's full
of MOTM.  I bought it, since I've heard some of Robert's stuff before and it
was quite good.

To put it bluntly, this is simply one of the best ambient cds I have ever
purchased, and I highly, highly recommend it.  The production is impeccable,
the tracks are seamless and progressive, and most of all, the MOTM synthwork
stands out as some seriously beautiful programming.  I still don't own an
MOTM (no space for anything new right now, unfortunately, which is why I've
been selling some gear off), but if anything would convince me about the
quality of its sound, this cd has done the job.

Paul S.








From mtmelvin at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 22:27:24 2001
From: mtmelvin at yahoo.com (Mark Melvin)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Sound clips of my first S-DIY project
Message-ID: <20010830202724.45802.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey guys.

Someone asked (can't remember who)... and I just love
a challenge... so I put up some sound samples from my
newly completed first ever DIY synth project!
Nothing ground breaking... but for those interested:

http://www.geocities.com/mtmelvin/Synth.html

Funny... finished this synth just before I became a
father!  Now it just sits there :(

Enjoy!
-Mark

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com


From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Thu Aug 30 22:38:25 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:38:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
References: <000c01c130ef$f21a2040$0100a8c0@mainsystem>
Message-ID: <008d01c13193$baef8f20$f5f77ad5@paul>

Jim,

 oddly enough a couple of months ago A man on the list emailed me (lost his
address/URL)
he had developed a 1U rack which had a coldfire and DSP in, it also had some
code examples and a 'get going' guide..
it looked VERY promising.. this would be a superb way to get into the world
of DSP...
  It looked like the EMU range of synths....

  If anyone knows the URL, or the guy is reading this, can I have the URL
and some more info..

Many thanks
Paul MAddox


----- Original Message -----
From: ultrahype <ultrahype at compuserve.com>
To: diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:06 AM
Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??


HI

sorry if this is a little off topic but im trying to dig up some info and im
sure you all can help.

im trying to find out if there are any HARDWARE based Softsynths ( ones that
have a designated hardware card for processesing and DSP)

i know of the following :

ALL Sound blaster and compatibles with synth engines
degidesign SampleCell
Korg OYASIS
Creamware Pulsar

are there any others ? even discontinued ones?

thanks for you help and please dont YELL for a OT question

thanks

Jim Heinz






From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Thu Aug 30 22:42:56 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:42:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
References: <1.5.4.32.20010830034045.00883818@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <00ad01c13194$5a5f4b40$f5f77ad5@paul>

Paul,

> I personally would be happy with a program that just lets you
> import an image of a PCB, and lets you see it superimposed on
> the screen as you lay out, so you are just 'tracing' out the layout.
> Like painting by numbers.
> Anyone know whether Protel 99 lets you do this? Other progs?

sadly none, BUT!!!
You could open a picture viewer, paint shop or whatever, and open a PCB
designer and put one window aboe the other..
With paintshop you can then zoom in/out to scale it to match the PCB you're
copying..

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com




From matti at devo.com  Thu Aug 30 23:54:20 2001
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:54:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] rev eng -> fwd eng?
In-Reply-To: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF02B@exchange1.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301752330.26059-100000@whipit.devo.com>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Czech Martin wrote:

> I know I'll get flamed for this one, but I have to:
>
> AFAIK the discrete emulations of analog gear are not the result of
> thoroughly analysis of the circuits.


Rebirth is supposedly a modeling of the hardware it "replaces".

-
finland red
germany black
egypt white



From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Aug 31 00:10:02 2001
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:10:02 -0500
Subject: AW: [sdiy] rev eng -> fwd eng?
In-Reply-To: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF02F@exchange1.intermetall.de>
Message-ID: <B7B423EA.232C5%grichter@asapnet.net>

Digital audio programming, to this point, has been about data reduction.
The standard FFT is optimized for computing efficiency and not audio
performance.

The problem is modeling continuous time functions on discrete time systems,
which is very processor intensive, even at low data rates. SPICE is an
example of this type of computation.

We have now reached the stage where the excess computing power of the
Pentium and G4 class machines make this feasible. I am aware of at least one
group working on implementing advanced continuous time based Slow Fourier
Transforms which provide a much finer structure than the Fast Fourier
method.

If this works, it opens the door to developing on the s-plane (continuous
time), and reusing the large base of s-plane technology which has never been
"ported" to the z-plane (discrete time).

An entire book could be written about the waste caused by having a global
level paradigm shift with no master plan. Switching the technology base from
continuous time computing to discrete time computing cost the equivalent of
about 1 year of the Gross Global Product (if you consider 10% over 10 years)

Hopefully, the next paradigm shift will be conducted with less clownish
disorder. The human race can ill afford expenses on that order of magnitude.

> 
> Ok, I know, better replace spice with: nonlinear differetial equation
> solver.
> 
> It needn't be SPICE if there's something better. I don't use SPICE
> either, our homebrew tool is caled CEDUSA, only the netlist syntax
> is SPICIAN.




From don at till.com  Fri Aug 31 00:31:19 2001
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AW: [sdiy] rev eng -> fwd eng?
In-Reply-To: 	<511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF02F@exchange1.intermetall.de>
	(message from Czech Martin on Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:36:04 +0200)
Message-ID: <200108302231.PAA06516@shell9.ba.best.com>

   From: Czech Martin <Martin.Czech at Micronas.com>
   Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:36:04 +0200

   > I should point out that SPICE is well known for doing a really
   > bad job  of modeling an analog circuit.

   Ok, I know, better replace spice with: nonlinear differetial
   equation solver.

   It needn't be SPICE if there's something better. 

Right, SPICE isn't the only simulator, but just as an example and
point of reference, SPICE would fail completely at this task.  So
another simulation approach would be required, one designed and
tweaked specifically for the task at hand.  It would have to work a
lot better than SPICE.  That would require some research.

The fact that the Z-plane is so different from the S-plane is a great
example of how the simplist of operations, linear integration, gets
complicated when you try to simulate it.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com



From colinf at ntlworld.com  Fri Aug 31 01:36:20 2001
From: colinf at ntlworld.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:36:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
In-Reply-To: <06d101c1318f$4885d7e0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <000001c131ac$9301f700$c6a0ff3e@mshome.net>

It's one of those things that make you realise that basically, technology
has let us down.
It's the year 2001, and we can't even get a computer to convert a dodgy
bitmap into a useable PCB foil just by asking it.
You could design a PCB on a home computer 20 years ago. Nowadays you get to
use a mouse instead of cursor keys. Big deal!
Weren't we supposed to be colonising other solar systems by now ?

Colin f

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Theo [mailto:t.hogers at home.nl]
> Sent: 30 August 2001 21:07
> To: Colin Fraser; 'Paul Perry'; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] pcb
>
>
> Aargh, did this much to often, actually about 2 or 3 times ;)
> with data
> plots.
> Was no fun at all, but did work.
> It is a work around, but you cant see the screen under the
> black parts of
> the acetate.
>
> Theo
>
> ------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Colin Fraser <colinf at ntlworld.com>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > >
> > > I personally would be happy with a program that just lets you
> > > import an image of a PCB, and lets you see it superimposed on
> > > the screen as you lay out, so you are just 'tracing' out
> the layout.
> > > Like painting by numbers.
> > > Anyone know whether Protel 99 lets you do this? Other progs?
> > >
> > > (if so, I can see some cut&paste in my future..)
> >
> > Have you thought of printing out the PCB image on acetate
> and then taping
> it
> > over your monitor while you trace ?
> >
> > Colin f
> >
>



From mitch at sirius.com  Fri Aug 31 03:31:29 2001
From: mitch at sirius.com (Mitchell Hudson)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:31:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] NE570
Message-ID: <3B8EE8F0.85F83588@sirius.com>

    Does anyone know a source for NE570? These seem to hard to get.

--M



From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Aug 31 05:06:47 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:06:47 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Source of Pots
Message-ID: <3B8EFF46.340C7247@silcom.com>

    This subject was more or less brought up by Terry a few days ago, I
believe...it is also a subject I am interrested in.

    Trying to find a source of good, inexpensive, panel mount pots seems
almost like an imposible dream.

    Now, in the Mouser catalog, I have found these:

    Bourns 3852 series 652-3852A-282-103A which are 5.83 (100's)
    Xicon 31VA401..........................................which are
0.87 (100's)

    And in Digkey I have found:

    Bourns 3852 series 3852A-282-103A which are 4.93 (100's)
    Bourns 50 series 53AAA-B28-B15      which are 4.58 (100's)
    CTS 450D103-1..................................which are 2.44
(100's)

    These are all single turn, 10K pots.

    Now, I have used Xicon pots in the past.  That 87 cent price is very
attractive.  Has anybody ever used any of the other pots, and do you
really get your moneys worth.  It would be a shame to pay 5 times more
for a pot that is not that much better than the Xicon.

    And does anybody else know of any pots supplier that does make a
resonable part at a reasonable price.

    I will probably just get one of each of the above to evaluate them,
anyway.  But picking pots has got to be one of the hardest things....

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Aug 31 05:11:20 2001
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:11:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Power Supply PCB
Message-ID: <3B8F0058.1F11A0AD@silcom.com>

    I have finally started to assemble the power supply boards I got
back about a couple of weeks ago now.

    This board has three regulators.  Two are set up as a +/- supply (I
intended it for +/-15V, but it can be anything that uses 78xx/79xx
regulators), and a Single supply, which I intended to be a +5 volt
supply (again, you can use any 78xx regulator here).  The two supplies
are completely issolated from each other.  Hopefully, I will have a
picture of the first one up real soon (I need two more 1n4003's and 3
10uF caps :-(   ).

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Fri Aug 31 07:08:25 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:08:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Dual VCO mixing. / first synth DIY project.
In-Reply-To: <20010825133236R.cfmd@swipnet.se>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830235607.024c9df8@mailhub.verio.net>

Magnus,
Yes, sounds pretty clear :) Gonna get started on making some VCO's and go 
from there. I'll keep the sdiy list updated. I found a good VCO schematic 
on the Emusic DIY page that has  tri, sq, sine, and I think it also had 
ramp (might be wrong on the ramp) Can you suggest a VCO schematic that's 
versatile and not that terribly hard for a beginner, or is the one there 
recommended? I'd really like to have at least triangle, square, and I 
really want sine, even though I know, yes, tri/square are easiest, and 
perhaps I can add the sine in later after I've implemented square. I assume 
I'd start with square and get that to function, then add the triangle 
followed by sine.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

I also assume that these can be compounded using the opamps to add more 
VCO's in the future? I've got a fairly large case that I'm intending to 
fill (used to be a tape deck cabinet), and this is my first DIY synth project.

I read somewhere to do the power supply first, though I've seen pre-made 
ones that are cheap, supposedly reliably, and wouldn't "waste" time. Any 
thoughts?

Can you or someone else elaborate a little more on what you mean by 
inverted? I assume the polarity (-/+) but if I wanted to re-invert it, how 
would I do so?

but I At 8/25/2001 06:32 AM, you wrote:
>From: cacofone <pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com>
>Subject: [AH] looking for schematic for dual vco
>Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:14:03 -0500
>
> > Hello, looking for a current (doesn't use CEM3340) Dual VCO, where I can
> > mix the VCO's (i.e. Pulse/triangle etc)
> >
> > Or, if I've got two VCO's, how do I mix the two? With an op-amp?
> >
> > looking for more details...
>
>This is really an Synth-DIY list question... but anyway:
>
>Take an op-amp. Hook the (+) input to the ground. Hook in a resistor
>(say 10k Ohm) between (-) input and the output. Connect your input
>signals through resistors (say 10k Ohm again) to the (-) input.
>This will give you a summing of the signals (VCOs or whatever) on the
>output. You should be aware that the signal is inverted, but maybe you
>don't care.
>
>If you want level controls, just damp the signals through pots and
>hook the tapper through the input resistors.
>
>Hope that came out clear.
>
>Cheers,
>Magnus

nKode / Pulse 8 / cacofone [aim:jkerseyVCSO]
Good Time Tribe / http://www.goodtimetribe.com
Dallas Regional Electronic Artists And Musicians 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/D-R-E-A-M
http://www.mp3.com/nkode / http://www.mp3.com/cacofone / 
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8



From Martin.Czech at Micronas.com  Fri Aug 31 09:31:56 2001
From: Martin.Czech at Micronas.com (Czech Martin)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:31:56 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
Message-ID: <511F0D67B671D311935F0008C7F99DFB060AF032@exchange1.intermetall.de>

I have these (pretty simple) circuits on paper.
Scan and put on site?

m.c.

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Curtin, Steven D (Steven) [mailto:sdcurtin at agere.com]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. August 2001 20:28
> An: Nils Pipenbrinck; Synth DIY; 'Theo'
> Betreff: RE: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
> 
> 
> Thanks!  The cumulative index for 2000 shows the following entry:
> 
> Coaxial S/PDIF Output - month 07 - page 97
> Optical S/PDIF Output  - month 07 - page 68
> 
> Does anyone have this issue?  (7/2000)
> 
> 
> Steve C
> 
> > ----------
> > From: 	Theo[SMTP:t.hogers at home.nl]
> > Sent: 	Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:35 PM
> > To: 	Nils Pipenbrinck; Synth DIY
> > Subject: 	Re: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
> > 
> > There has been a circuit for this in Elektor.
> > Sorry don't know the year, or issue, it was not too resent.
> > Think they have a search able issue archive online.
> > http://www.elektor.de
> > 
> > Theo
> > 
> > ------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Nils Pipenbrinck <np at inverse-entertainment.de>
> > To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:39 PM
> > Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > > Anyone have a circuit for a spdif optical to RCA converter?
> > >
> > >
> > > Funny..
> > >
> > > I'm looking for the exact opposite. Want to use my 
> Johnson JStation and
> > > directly record into my computer.. Problem is, that it only has a
> > > non-optical output, and these are not that common on pc 
> soundcards.
> > >
> > > Any schemantics anyone?
> > >
> > > (or even some experiences with cheap but good commercial 
> built units?).
> > >
> > > Nils
> > >
> > 
> > 
> 


From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Fri Aug 31 09:32:23 2001
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:32:23 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
Message-ID: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6026CD477@hati.kapsch.co.at>

Hallo!

>Thanks!  The cumulative index for 2000 shows the following entry:
>
>Coaxial S/PDIF Output - month 07 - page 97   -> page 37
>Optical S/PDIF Output  - month 07 - page 68   -> page 17
>
>Does anyone have this issue?  (7/2000)

I have it but for the German Elektor the page numbers are not correct...

corrections see above...

But I think this is not was he is looking for:

>>Anyone have a circuit for a spdif optical to RCA converter?

So you would need optical in to Coax Out.
So he could use the first article and should add a TORX173 on the input.
Look at the datasheet of the TORX173 or TORX176

The datasheet of the TORX176 can be found here:
http://www.sc-elec.demon.co.uk/torx.htm

Circuit ideas can be found here:
http://www.fet.uni-hannover.de/~purnhage/dat/spdif.txt

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: www.ullrich.at.tt , http://come.to/ullrich

   .oooO           Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   (   )   Oooo.   KAPSCH AG / ECCN Control Systems    Vienna / Austria
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/




From Ullrich at kapsch.net  Fri Aug 31 09:44:35 2001
From: Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:44:35 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Spdif optical to Coax,.
Message-ID: <0931E18C3147D411A0B900A0C9CC39D6026CD479@hati.kapsch.co.at>

Here is the TORX173 datasheet:

http://www.ifd.hibu.no/Prosjekter/1999/D11/torx173.pdf

and more info:
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/audio/spdif.html

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                   Ing. Peter Ullrich         mailto:ullrich at kapsch.net
                   Homepage: www.ullrich.at.tt , http://come.to/ullrich
                   http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3586/
   .oooO           Hardware & Software Developer /  Electronic Musician
   (   )   Oooo.   KAPSCH AG / ECCN Control Systems    Vienna / Austria
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/




From p8051 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 31 10:14:25 2001
From: p8051 at yahoo.com (TooManySynths)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Having a hard time finding the chips you want - roll your own!
In-Reply-To: <009601c1317c$3a86c0e0$578da4c6@MIRAMICHI>
Message-ID: <20010831081425.16362.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Darren Reid <shokwave at nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
> "Czech Martin" <Martin.Czech at Micronas.com> asks:
> 
> >How much will a mask set cost? (maybe 2 or 3
> redesigns will be needed)
> >How much will wafers cost if you only need 1 or 2?
> >How to do wafer test? Cost?
> >Assembly cost?
> >Final test cost?
> 
> That's what we all wanna know, yup. By the way, I
> wasn't merely suggesting
> that this school would be a way of doing this: I was
> thinking more along the
> lines that the *process* might be useful i.e. the
> whole concept of partially
> pre-engineered wafers ala fishbone.
> 
> -Darren
> 


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From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Aug 31 10:17:28 2001
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:17:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] rev eng -> fwd eng?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301752330.26059-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <004901c131f5$603c5600$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Yhea, marketing is a funny thing ;)

Theo

From: matti <matti at devo.com>
To: Czech Martin <Martin.Czech at Micronas.com>

> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Czech Martin wrote:
> 
> > I know I'll get flamed for this one, but I have to:
> >
> > AFAIK the discrete emulations of analog gear are not the result of
> > thoroughly analysis of the circuits.
> 
> 
> Rebirth is supposedly a modeling of the hardware it "replaces".
> 
> -
> finland red
> germany black
> egypt white
> 



From p8051 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 31 10:21:13 2001
From: p8051 at yahoo.com (TooManySynths)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] How does 3320 sound as hipass/bandpass
In-Reply-To: <009601c1317c$3a86c0e0$578da4c6@MIRAMICHI>
Message-ID: <20010831082113.74452.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

My chip based diy modular is coming right along.  I
abandoned chopping my ARPS <sigh>, chips are pretty
easy and I have a lot of them :)  Yes this means my
beat up ody II with five busted sliders is for trade. 
 (everything works, it just has scratches and busted
sliders, five of em).  If you want it, offer me
something I'd rather have instead, like modules, or a
whole lot of bannana jacks.

My VCO's are 3340 based, I have a bunch of those.  I
also have a lot of CEM/SSM and now Korg dedicated
LPFs. I have never liked the 3320 as an lpf and since
I have several other choices that I like better, I'm
not going to use it as such.  However, the 3320 is not
a dedicated LPF and I could build other filters with
it. My question is, have any of you made 3320
bandpass/hipass filters and how do they sound.  To my
ears, hipass filters don't seem to be quite as
critical as low pass filters so this might be a good
application for my 3320s.

Please don't suggest I build discrete circuits, I just
don't have the patience right now. (A chip for every
module, and for every module, a chip)

Thanks
Daryl


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From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Aug 31 09:36:26 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:36:26
Subject: [sdiy] Dual VCO mixing. / first synth DIY project.
Message-ID: <200108311636.f7VGaWL14960@smtp001pub.verizon.net>

There is good info in the datasheet and appnotes, both
are available on the net (if you can't find them, email
me, I have the PDFs).  As a straight LFO, the appnotes
have a circuit for an audio oscillator that varies freq.
with a pot.  This circuit is fairly simple and all you need
to do is make the timing cap larger for an LFO.  The sheet 
says the low end is 20hz.  So, make the cap 100 times larger
and you go down to .2 hz, 1000 times and you have .02 hz.

Making it voltage controlled is possible, but the circuit
is more complex and IHMO overly so for an LFO.  Really, the 
ONLY good thing about this IC is the multiple waveform outs.

BTW, this part makes a crappy VCO for music since it is not very
linear.  It can be used as the VCO in a PLL as long as you don't
need the tracking voltage, but rather just to produce the multi
waveforms locked to an input signal.

"Bill Keys" <controlkeys at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>From: cacofone <pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com>
>>Magnus,
>>Gonna get started on making some VCO's and go from there. Can you suggest a 
>>VCO schematic that's versatile and not that terribly hard for a beginner, 
>>or is the one there
>>recommended? I'd really like to have at least triangle, square, and I 
>>really want sine, even though I know, yes, tri/square are easiest, and 
>>perhaps I can add the sine in later after I've implemented square.
>
>Which makes me think of a question I've been meaning to ask... Does anyone 
>know of any VCO (or, if not, LFO) designs (and where the schems might be 
>obtained) based on the (old, but still for sale at the 1974 price) Intersil 
>8038 VCO chip? If so, that chip does sine (and triangle and saw, I think) 
>and might help both cacofone and I  ;o).
>
>>Any advice is greatly appreciated.
>>
>Ditto!
>
>+_+_Yes, honey, I know there are 25 boxes of electronic junk cluttering up 
>the attic. They will, one day, magically be transformed into a modular 
>synthesizer cluttering up the attic.... www.mp3.com/OriginalSimulacrum _+_+
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
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From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Fri Aug 31 12:29:53 2001
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:29:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
References: <200108301321.f7UDL2J21757@smtp004pub.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3B8F6721.297C0072@consol.de>

Hi 

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> 
> I've always wondered:  Once one reel down is momentarily slowed,
> how did they 'resynch' the decks so that the difference is
> eliminated again?  Drag a finger on the other one?  Sounds
> difficult.  Pardon my naivete...
As I already told Scott in a private mail:

The flanging usually was not done using the tape machines to playback
two copies of the same tape, but using two machines as delay (record the
sound and listen from the separate playback head). Either the flanged
machine is speeded up a littlebit or you flange alternating the one and
the other tape. So there is no big trick ...

Florian
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de


From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Fri Aug 31 14:57:14 2001
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:57:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Sound clips of my first S-DIY project
In-Reply-To: <20010830202724.45802.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010831085714.007adab0@hoohahrecords.com>

At 01:27 PM 8/30/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Hey guys.
>
>Someone asked (can't remember who)... and I just love
>a challenge... so I put up some sound samples from my
>newly completed first ever DIY synth project!
>Nothing ground breaking... but for those interested:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/mtmelvin/Synth.html
>
>Funny... finished this synth just before I became a
>father!  Now it just sits there :(
>


Hi Mark,

Nice looking synth.  Question for you:  What did you use to label the front
panel?  It looks great. Also... IS the case you used salvaged from
something else?  I noticed the XLR-sized cutouts in the rear of the
enclosure. 

Conrats on entering the realm of fatherhood... Time is harder to come by,
but it's well worth it in the end!  My oldest child is now 7, and I'm going
to build her a simple monosynth (or Theremin) so she can play along with
me, too... good way to use my gear and play with the kids at the same time :)

Dave Magnuson

Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From controlkeys at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 31 15:19:48 2001
From: controlkeys at hotmail.com (Bill Keys)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:19:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Dual VCO mixing. / first synth DIY project.
Message-ID: <F33XXUv1MJ3G9Vbj2lt000038d1@hotmail.com>

>From: cacofone <pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com>
>Magnus,
>Gonna get started on making some VCO's and go from there. Can you suggest a 
>VCO schematic that's versatile and not that terribly hard for a beginner, 
>or is the one there
>recommended? I'd really like to have at least triangle, square, and I 
>really want sine, even though I know, yes, tri/square are easiest, and 
>perhaps I can add the sine in later after I've implemented square.

Which makes me think of a question I've been meaning to ask... Does anyone 
know of any VCO (or, if not, LFO) designs (and where the schems might be 
obtained) based on the (old, but still for sale at the 1974 price) Intersil 
8038 VCO chip? If so, that chip does sine (and triangle and saw, I think) 
and might help both cacofone and I  ;o).

>Any advice is greatly appreciated.
>
Ditto!

+_+_Yes, honey, I know there are 25 boxes of electronic junk cluttering up 
the attic. They will, one day, magically be transformed into a modular 
synthesizer cluttering up the attic.... www.mp3.com/OriginalSimulacrum _+_+


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



From sbernardi at home.net  Fri Aug 31 15:34:53 2001
From: sbernardi at home.net (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:34:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] How does 3320 sound as hipass/bandpass
References: <20010831082113.74452.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B8F927D.7936E49F@home.net>

I built a bandpass with a CEM3320, four pole (i.e., 12db/octave slopes). See
http://members.home.net/sbernardi/elec/bandpass.html. It works pretty well,
good for filtering noise, and I've used it as a Wah-Wah with a footpedal to
provide the CV.  Also doubles as a sine oscillator.
There's not that much difference between a 2-pole (6db/octave slopes) and a 4
pole, because you can get the narrow band with high Q.
I haven't had much use for high pass filters either.

TooManySynths wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> My chip based diy modular is coming right along.  I
> abandoned chopping my ARPS <sigh>, chips are pretty
> easy and I have a lot of them :)  Yes this means my
> beat up ody II with five busted sliders is for trade.
>  (everything works, it just has scratches and busted
> sliders, five of em).  If you want it, offer me
> something I'd rather have instead, like modules, or a
> whole lot of bannana jacks.
>
> My VCO's are 3340 based, I have a bunch of those.  I
> also have a lot of CEM/SSM and now Korg dedicated
> LPFs. I have never liked the 3320 as an lpf and since
> I have several other choices that I like better, I'm
> not going to use it as such.  However, the 3320 is not
> a dedicated LPF and I could build other filters with
> it. My question is, have any of you made 3320
> bandpass/hipass filters and how do they sound.  To my
> ears, hipass filters don't seem to be quite as
> critical as low pass filters so this might be a good
> application for my 3320s.
>
> Please don't suggest I build discrete circuits, I just
> don't have the patience right now. (A chip for every
> module, and for every module, a chip)
>
> Thanks
> Daryl
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://im.yahoo.com

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at home.net




From amartens at interchange.ubc.ca  Fri Aug 31 17:12:22 2001
From: amartens at interchange.ubc.ca (Andrew Martens)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:12:22 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
References: <000c01c130ef$f21a2040$0100a8c0@mainsystem> <008d01c13193$baef8f20$f5f77ad5@paul>
Message-ID: <002901c1322f$55d10d20$183e4418@vc.shawcable.net>

I believe this was the Chameleon synth that someone mentioned. -
www.soundart-hot.com

DSP Motorola DSP56303, 24 bit @ 100 MHz
CODEC Crystal Semiconductors CS4221, 24 bit @ 48 KHz
Microcontroller (?C) Motorola ColdFire MCF5206e, 32 bit @ 40 MHz
(... etc...)

Cheers,
Andrew Martens

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Maddox" <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
To: "ultrahype" <ultrahype at compuserve.com>; "diy"
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??


> Jim,
>
>  oddly enough a couple of months ago A man on the list emailed me (lost
his
> address/URL)
> he had developed a 1U rack which had a coldfire and DSP in, it also had
some
> code examples and a 'get going' guide..
> it looked VERY promising.. this would be a superb way to get into the
world
> of DSP...
>   It looked like the EMU range of synths....
>
>   If anyone knows the URL, or the guy is reading this, can I have the URL
> and some more info..
>
> Many thanks
> Paul MAddox
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ultrahype <ultrahype at compuserve.com>
> To: diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:06 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
>
>
> HI
>
> sorry if this is a little off topic but im trying to dig up some info and
im
> sure you all can help.
>
> im trying to find out if there are any HARDWARE based Softsynths ( ones
that
> have a designated hardware card for processesing and DSP)
>
> i know of the following :
>
> ALL Sound blaster and compatibles with synth engines
> degidesign SampleCell
> Korg OYASIS
> Creamware Pulsar
>
> are there any others ? even discontinued ones?
>
> thanks for you help and please dont YELL for a OT question
>
> thanks
>
> Jim Heinz
>
>
>
>



From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Aug 31 15:22:44 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:22:44
Subject: [sdiy] Phase-locked loops and the root of my headache
Message-ID: <200108312222.f7VMMpj06080@smtp007pub.verizon.net>

I did a 4046 project for a FatMan.  Details here:

http://home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/TekLab_FatMan_WebSite/4046pll.html

"Jon Darby" <jdarby at lplizard.com> wrote:
>Howdy, everyone!
>    I would really appreciate it if someone could give me (us?) an overview
>of PLLs and their audio applications, particularly the 4046A PLL with VCO
>chip. At $1.02 a pop I had to pick one up to play with it, but do not
>understand exactly what a phase locked loop is. Reading the data sheet on
>the 74HCT4046, it appears the the three different comparators are not
>inteded to be used simultaneously?  

Not usually, but who knows what wierdness can be invented.
I don't know about the 74HCT4046, but the CD4046 (or 4046)
has only 2 phase comparators.  Phase comp I will happily 
lock to strong harmonics or the fundamental.  Phase comp
II will lock only on the fundamental as long as it is within
the lock range.  Both can be musically useful.

>Does the frequency or whatever is fed
>into teh comparator input control the frequency of oscillation of the VCO?

If wired correctly, yes.

>If so, would an external master oscillator drive the PLL's range that it
>allows the VCO to oscillate within? 

mmmm, I think the answer is yes.  As long as the input signal's
frequency is within the limits of the lock range, the PLL's VCO
will follow it around like a puppy dog.

>Uggh, I'm talking out of my rear at this
>point. If anyone has a pointer or two where to start to understand PLLs or
>little projects I could do with this beast for fun fun audio fun it would
>really be swell.

You can learn a good deal from the data sheet.  There's a good 
description of what is going on, as well as formulas for calculating 
the lock range limits resistors (and cap) and the parameters for 2
different kinds of RC loop filters.

>Your pal,
>Jon Darby
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Aug 31 16:05:41 2001
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:05:41
Subject: [sdiy] Phase-locked loops and the root of my headache
Message-ID: <200108312305.f7VN5mL08789@smtp001pub.verizon.net>

Frequency multiplication is a typical application.
Instead of the VCO square wave output driving
one input of the phase comparator directly, a 
divide by N digital counter can be inserted
between the VCO output and the phase comparator
input.  The VCO will track the input signal's
frequency times N.  Eg. Use a divide by 2 and get
an octave above, use a divide by 3 and get a
perfect 5th in the next octave up.  The counter
should ideally be a symetrical one.

"Jon Darby" <jdarby at lplizard.com> wrote:
>Thanks, Magnus, I appreciate the primer. What is a typical application of
>the phase-locked loop? I can kind of pick up smatterings of filter
>applications, but don't understand what role it plays. I'll look for the
>book tonight. The 4046 seems really interesting from the datasheet and I
>feel like I'm beginning to take that first dive into Lake Understanding The
>Application of Electronic Components.
>
>Thanks again,
>Jon Darby
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Magnus Danielson" <cfmd at swipnet.se>
>To: <jdarby at lplizard.com>
>Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:52 PM
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Phase-locked loops and the root of my headache
>
>
>> From: "Jon Darby" <jdarby at lplizard.com>
>> Subject: [sdiy] Phase-locked loops and the root of my headache
>> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:41:50 -0400
>>
>> > Howdy, everyone!
>>
>> Howdy Jon,
>>
>> >     I would really appreciate it if someone could give me (us?) an
>overview
>> > of PLLs and their audio applications, particularly the 4046A PLL with
>VCO
>> > chip. At $1.02 a pop I had to pick one up to play with it, but do not
>> > understand exactly what a phase locked loop is.
>>
>> The 4046 (and its derivates) are absolute classics in the PLL world.
>>
>> Let me tell you, I have several books on the topic itself, so it is
>> not something one summarizes with deep insight, but an initial tour of
>> what can be acheived is not a problem.
>>
>> > Reading the data sheet on the 74HCT4046, it appears the the three
>> > different comparators are not inteded to be used simultaneously?
>>
>> This is correct. They share common inputs, but you use the output of
>> your choice to best match your application. At rare cases one uses one
>> of the outputs for lock detection, so then you effectively use two
>outputs.
>>
>> > Does the frequency or whatever is fed into teh comparator input
>> > control the frequency of oscillation of the VCO?
>>
>> Yes, but not only the frequency, you will also lock the VCO output
>> phase in relation to the input signals phase. However, this phase
>> relationship may be many different things than 0 degrees.
>>
>> Also note, you must set up the VCO for the propper frequency
>> range. While it may be very wide, the center frequency of the
>> oscillator is of interest since it is actually from this you modulate
>> the VCO up or down.
>>
>> > If so, would an external master oscillator drive the PLL's range that it
>> > allows the VCO to oscillate within?
>>
>> Yes, you can make the VCO track the frequency of some reference (or
>> master) oscillator/signal.
>>
>> > Uggh, I'm talking out of my rear at this
>> > point. If anyone has a pointer or two where to start to understand PLLs
>or
>> > little projects I could do with this beast for fun fun audio fun it
>would
>> > really be swell.
>>
>> There is one book called "Phase Locked Loop" by Best which could be a
>> good starter book. It has a very practical side to it and talk about
>> actual components. Examples with 4046 is there for instance. It comes
>> with a program which allows you to simulate the behaviour of a PLL, so
>> you can get a feel if you are in the right neighborhood before
>> actually building.
>>
>> I do not know of a good web-site thought. The datasheets is about it
>> as I know it from the top of my head. Philips 74HC4046, 74HC7046 and
>> 74HC9046 datasheets contain quite alot of design help for a
>> datasheet. They basically tossed in appnotes into it.
>>
>> One of the things which one should know is that you are not required
>> to use the VCO sitting in the 4046, you can use another VCO. The expo
>> input is however an issue which most probably causes some upset to the
>> system.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: www.teklab.com/~chordman
-- NonFatMan: members.xoom.com/_XMCM/chordman/index.html




From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Fri Aug 31 22:15:27 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:15:27 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] my real name
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010831151340.00ad6e50@mailhub.verio.net>

My real name's Joshua to clear up any confusion.

I normally type it at the bottom of my messages, I wrote in haste (my 
girlfriend was ill and needed my assistance) so I didn't get to sign.

:)

My apologies, will do in the future.

Joshua Kersey


Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:goodtimetribe]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Fri Aug 31 22:17:34 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:17:34 +0100
Subject: Fw: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
Message-ID: <009401c13259$f9510840$f232073e@paul>

 Hi,

   Ok, totally useless fact time...

 Its called flangeing due to the fact (as florian said) but changeing the
 delay time of one of the two tape decks,
 this was done by pressing gently on the 'flange' of the tape reel to slow
it
 :-)

 sad I know this, very sad..

 Paul



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander at consol.de>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Build a Tape Flanger?
>
>
> Hi
>
> Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> >
> > I've always wondered:  Once one reel down is momentarily slowed,
> > how did they 'resynch' the decks so that the difference is
> > eliminated again?  Drag a finger on the other one?  Sounds
> > difficult.  Pardon my naivete...
> As I already told Scott in a private mail:
>
> The flanging usually was not done using the tape machines to playback
> two copies of the same tape, but using two machines as delay (record the
> sound and listen from the separate playback head). Either the flanged
> machine is speeded up a littlebit or you flange alternating the one and
> the other tape. So there is no big trick ...
>
> Florian
> --
> Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
> Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
> Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 M?nchen
> email: florian.anwander at consol.de |http://www.consol.de
>



From marmot1 at magma.ca  Fri Aug 31 22:18:16 2001
From: marmot1 at magma.ca (marmot1 at magma.ca)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:18:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Dual VCO mixing. / first synth DIY project.
References: <F33XXUv1MJ3G9Vbj2lt000038d1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B8FF108.55D2@magma.ca>

Electronotes (ENS 98, p.17 -18) shows a circuit for a one volt/oct VCO 
using the 8038. The article states that the circuit behaves well 
over a range of 7 to 8 octaves, but waveform distortion becomes 
signicant below 10 Hz. You should be able to put in a larger timing 
capacitor to get down to lower frequencies before distortion starts. 
The 8038 is not a wonder-chip, IMHO the only good thing about it is 
that it provides a simple means to get a moderately low-distortion 
sine wave. This particular circuit is the only good circuit I have 
seen for it, aside from the simple manual one-pot sine/square generator 
in the app notes.
Regards, Mike

Bill Keys wrote:
> 
> >From: cacofone <pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com>
> >Magnus,
> >Gonna get started on making some VCO's and go from there. Can you suggest a
> >VCO schematic that's versatile and not that terribly hard for a beginner,
> >or is the one there
> >recommended? I'd really like to have at least triangle, square, and I
> >really want sine, even though I know, yes, tri/square are easiest, and
> >perhaps I can add the sine in later after I've implemented square.
> 
> Which makes me think of a question I've been meaning to ask... Does anyone
> know of any VCO (or, if not, LFO) designs (and where the schems might be
> obtained) based on the (old, but still for sale at the 1974 price) Intersil
> 8038 VCO chip? If so, that chip does sine (and triangle and saw, I think)
> and might help both cacofone and I  ;o).
> 
> >Any advice is greatly appreciated.
> >
> Ditto!
> 
> +_+_Yes, honey, I know there are 25 boxes of electronic junk cluttering up
> the attic. They will, one day, magically be transformed into a modular
> synthesizer cluttering up the attic.... www.mp3.com/OriginalSimulacrum _+_+
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Fri Aug 31 22:19:24 2001
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:19:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
References: <000c01c130ef$f21a2040$0100a8c0@mainsystem> <008d01c13193$baef8f20$f5f77ad5@paul> <002901c1322f$55d10d20$183e4418@vc.shawcable.net>
Message-ID: <00ac01c1325a$3c760ee0$f232073e@paul>

Andrew (and others)

Thats the puppy...
I want one, looks like a great way of getting into DSP quickly and easily!
I have to point out, I want to get into to DSP to create NEW sounds and
architectures, not emulations of current synths.

Paul Maddox
_______________________________________
Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com
Waveterm C Project page;-
    Http://www.waveterm.com



----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Martens <amartens at interchange.ubc.ca>
To: Paul Maddox <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>; ultrahype
<ultrahype at compuserve.com>; diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??


I believe this was the Chameleon synth that someone mentioned. -
www.soundart-hot.com

DSP Motorola DSP56303, 24 bit @ 100 MHz
CODEC Crystal Semiconductors CS4221, 24 bit @ 48 KHz
Microcontroller (?C) Motorola ColdFire MCF5206e, 32 bit @ 40 MHz
(... etc...)

Cheers,
Andrew Martens

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Maddox" <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>
To: "ultrahype" <ultrahype at compuserve.com>; "diy"
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??


> Jim,
>
>  oddly enough a couple of months ago A man on the list emailed me (lost
his
> address/URL)
> he had developed a 1U rack which had a coldfire and DSP in, it also had
some
> code examples and a 'get going' guide..
> it looked VERY promising.. this would be a superb way to get into the
world
> of DSP...
>   It looked like the EMU range of synths....
>
>   If anyone knows the URL, or the guy is reading this, can I have the URL
> and some more info..
>
> Many thanks
> Paul MAddox
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ultrahype <ultrahype at compuserve.com>
> To: diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:06 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] HARDWARE soft-synths??
>
>
> HI
>
> sorry if this is a little off topic but im trying to dig up some info and
im
> sure you all can help.
>
> im trying to find out if there are any HARDWARE based Softsynths ( ones
that
> have a designated hardware card for processesing and DSP)
>
> i know of the following :
>
> ALL Sound blaster and compatibles with synth engines
> degidesign SampleCell
> Korg OYASIS
> Creamware Pulsar
>
> are there any others ? even discontinued ones?
>
> thanks for you help and please dont YELL for a OT question
>
> thanks
>
> Jim Heinz
>
>
>
>




From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Fri Aug 31 22:25:29 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:25:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Dual VCO mixing. / first synth DIY project.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010831223800.00efbeb0@mailout.uni-bonn.de>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830235607.024c9df8@mailhub.verio.net>
 <20010825133236R.cfmd@swipnet.se>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010831151852.00addae0@mailhub.verio.net>

At 03:38 PM 8/31/01, you wrote:

>Hi cacofone!
>
>At 00:08 31.08.01 -0500, cacofone wrote:
> >Magnus,
> >Yes, sounds pretty clear :) Gonna get started on making some VCO's and go
> >from there. I'll keep the sdiy list updated. I found a good VCO schematic
> >on the Emusic DIY page that has  tri, sq, sine, and I think it also had
> >ramp (might be wrong on the ramp) Can you suggest a VCO schematic that's
> >versatile and not that terribly hard for a beginner, or is the one there
> >recommended? I'd really like to have at least triangle, square, and I
> >really want sine, even though I know, yes, tri/square are easiest, and
> >perhaps I can add the sine in later after I've implemented square. I assume
> >I'd start with square and get that to function, then add the triangle
> >followed by sine.
> >
> >Any advice is greatly appreciated.
>
>You might check out the VCO3 at my website. (link is at the end of this
>message)

Great! Thanks for the info there.

>Usually the designs start either with a sawtooth (or ramp which is the
>same), or with a triangle oscillator from which the other waveforms are
>derrived.
>(The square is a by-product for a triangle oscillator, and thus pulsewidth
>can't be modified.)
>A sawtooth is frequently turned into a triangle by fullwave rectifying it.
>Then you can get a sinewave from that by applying a nonlinear function onto
>the triangle.
>The pulse waveform is usually derrived from the sawtooth by a voltage
>comparator.
>The VCO3 follows that design pattern.


Yeah, I've studied enough (and lurked on the list) long enough to learn the 
basic concepts of how to do it, but it's always nice and easy to follow a 
good schematic. I think some of the most important learning I do will be 
from the actual process of it, as I go along and choose to improve and add 
stuff to it.


> >I also assume that these can be compounded using the opamps to add more
> >VCO's in the future? I've got a fairly large case that I'm intending to
> >fill (used to be a tape deck cabinet), and this is my first DIY synth
>project.
> >
> >I read somewhere to do the power supply first, though I've seen pre-made
> >ones that are cheap, supposedly reliably, and wouldn't "waste" time. Any
> >thoughts?
>
>If they're dual ones (+/- 15V or so) then that is fine.

Yay! any suggested sources?

> >Can you or someone else elaborate a little more on what you mean by
> >inverted? I assume the polarity (-/+) but if I wanted to re-invert it, how
> >would I do so?
>
>You're right about polarity, everything is just upside-down.
>Another inverting opamp stage will re-invert your signal. But I wouldn't
>bother, for audio there is no difference.

Good to know I can eliminate redundant steps :)

>Cheers,
>  Ren?
>--
>uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
>http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

Thanks for the link Ren?.

Joshua K

>

Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:goodtimetribe]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Fri Aug 31 22:31:12 2001
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:31:12 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Dual VCO mixing. / first synth DIY project.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830235607.024c9df8@mailhub.verio.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
	<20010825133236R.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20010830235607.024c9df8@mailhub.verio.net>
Message-ID: <20010831223112T.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: cacofone <pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com>
Subject: [sdiy] Dual VCO mixing. / first synth DIY project.
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:08:25 -0500

> Magnus,

Hi.... (what ever your first name really is)

> Yes, sounds pretty clear :)

Goodie!

> Gonna get started on making some VCO's and go 
> from there. I'll keep the sdiy list updated. I found a good VCO schematic 
> on the Emusic DIY page that has  tri, sq, sine, and I think it also had 
> ramp (might be wrong on the ramp) Can you suggest a VCO schematic that's 
> versatile and not that terribly hard for a beginner, or is the one there 
> recommended? I'd really like to have at least triangle, square, and I 
> really want sine, even though I know, yes, tri/square are easiest, and 
> perhaps I can add the sine in later after I've implemented square. I assume 
> I'd start with square and get that to function, then add the triangle 
> followed by sine.

It is customary to use a sawtooth (more common name than ramp)
waveform core in VCOs and then waveshape pulse, triangle and sine.

However, the triangle (and thus sine) does not get very well when
cooking it from sawtooth. However, cooking sawtooth out of triangle
and square should be fine.

> Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Check out the ASM-1 synth among others. This is a pretty good standard
oscillator.

> I also assume that these can be compounded using the opamps to add more 
> VCO's in the future? I've got a fairly large case that I'm intending to 
> fill (used to be a tape deck cabinet), and this is my first DIY synth project.
> 
> I read somewhere to do the power supply first, though I've seen pre-made 
> ones that are cheap, supposedly reliably, and wouldn't "waste" time. Any 
> thoughts?

Either way, get a power supply early, you want to have it around to
test out the VCOs as you get them done.

> Can you or someone else elaborate a little more on what you mean by 
> inverted? I assume the polarity (-/+) but if I wanted to re-invert it, how 
> would I do so?

Toss it through a similar setup but with only one input.

That is, if you *really* require the right polarity.

Cheers,
Magnus



From pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com  Fri Aug 31 22:40:04 2001
From: pulse8 at goodtimetribe.com (cacofone)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:40:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Dual VCO mixing. / first synth DIY project.
In-Reply-To: <20010831223112T.cfmd@swipnet.se>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830235607.024c9df8@mailhub.verio.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010825031138.00b06588@mailhub.verio.net>
 <20010825133236R.cfmd@swipnet.se>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010830235607.024c9df8@mailhub.verio.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010831152538.00ad1810@mailhub.verio.net>



>Hi.... (what ever your first name really is)

Oops, Joshua


> > Yes, sounds pretty clear :)
>
>Goodie!
>
> > Gonna get started on making some VCO's and go
> > from there. I'll keep the sdiy list updated. I found a good VCO schematic
> > on the Emusic DIY page that has  tri, sq, sine, and I think it also had
> > ramp (might be wrong on the ramp) Can you suggest a VCO schematic that's
> > versatile and not that terribly hard for a beginner, or is the one there
> > recommended? I'd really like to have at least triangle, square, and I
> > really want sine, even though I know, yes, tri/square are easiest, and
> > perhaps I can add the sine in later after I've implemented square. I 
> assume
> > I'd start with square and get that to function, then add the triangle
> > followed by sine.
>
>It is customary to use a sawtooth (more common name than ramp)
>waveform core in VCOs and then waveshape pulse, triangle and sine.

I thought the difference between saw and ramp was the direction of the 
downward slope, i.e.

|\ versus /| however i don't know the difference, I thought /| was saw 
(what's printed on the tb-303, etc), but since I read from left to right, 
it makes more sense to me that would be ramp.... but consider the source, 
it can see why it would be be different.

>However, the triangle (and thus sine) does not get very well when
>cooking it from sawtooth. However, cooking sawtooth out of triangle
>and square should be fine.
>
> > Any advice is greatly appreciated.
>
>Check out the ASM-1 synth among others. This is a pretty good standard
>oscillator.

Definitely one of that I've looked at.

> > I also assume that these can be compounded using the opamps to add more
> > VCO's in the future? I've got a fairly large case that I'm intending to
> > fill (used to be a tape deck cabinet), and this is my first DIY synth 
> project.
> >
> > I read somewhere to do the power supply first, though I've seen pre-made
> > ones that are cheap, supposedly reliably, and wouldn't "waste" time. Any
> > thoughts?
>
>Either way, get a power supply early, you want to have it around to
>test out the VCOs as you get them done.
>
> > Can you or someone else elaborate a little more on what you mean by
> > inverted? I assume the polarity (-/+) but if I wanted to re-invert it, how
> > would I do so?
>
>Toss it through a similar setup but with only one input.
>
>That is, if you *really* require the right polarity.
>
>Cheers,
>Magnus


Thanks again for even more information. I'm excited and anxious to get 
started, but I want to take it slow and make sure I'm doing everything 
right in advance.

Joshua


Pulse 8 / nKode / cacofone [aim:goodtimetribe]
http://www.goodtimetribe.com - Good Time Tribe 
http://www.mp3.com/stations/d-r-e-a-m DREAM Radio Station
http://www.mp3.com/pulse8 http://www.mp3.com/nkode http://www.mp3.com/cacofone



From brockr0 at home.com  Fri Aug 31 22:54:05 2001
From: brockr0 at home.com (Brock Russell)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:54:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] pcb
In-Reply-To: <000001c131ac$9301f700$c6a0ff3e@mshome.net>
References: <06d101c1318f$4885d7e0$db7578d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010831115446.009f7c30@mail>


>It's one of those things that make you realise that basically, technology
>has let us down.
>It's the year 2001, and we can't even get a computer to convert a dodgy
>bitmap into a useable PCB foil just by asking it.
>You could design a PCB on a home computer 20 years ago. Nowadays you get to
>use a mouse instead of cursor keys. Big deal!
>Weren't we supposed to be colonising other solar systems by now ?
>
>Colin f

There are lots of graphics to pcb or gerber converters available. Almost 
every professional package has a graphic import capability built in or an 
add-on written by a user or third party.

I use Paul Fincato's bitmap to pcb converter. This is a freeware Windoze 
program that outputs a rasterized image Protel text pcb file that can be 
loaded into most pcb cad programs. Unfortunately, Paul's website is gone 
but if someone has space to post a 309k file I will be happy to pass it on.

Brian Guralnick has a picture to gerber converter, Visual Basic module at 
ftp://ftp.point-lab.com/quartus/Public/ProtelUsers/. This one does colour 
images as well.

Howard Lee's bitmap to TraxPCB  at 
http://www.21icsearch.com/pmcu/down/bmp2pcb.exe

I think someone already mentioned this one, for Protel users there is the 
Klipper add-on at http://www.desktop-eda.com.au/products/pcb.htm .

Can't be done? Technology has let us down?
Twenty years ago I was laying out boards with tape and Bishop pads, 15 
years ago I used Smartwork on a slow PC clone and today I use Protel 99SE 
on a zippy P3 and regularly turn out multilayer boards with 200+ pin 
components with 0.5 millimeter lead pitch. I can even make a usable board 
from a scanned image.
I can send gerber files for multilayer boards to a board house and have 
finished product in my hands within 24 hours. I can get almost any 
component in small quantity delivered in 48 hours.
We have come a long, long way in twenty years.

JMO,

Brock



From kimgh at inet.uni2.dk  Fri Aug 31 23:30:01 2001
From: kimgh at inet.uni2.dk (KimG)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:30:01 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] How does 3320 sound as hipass/bandpass
References: <20010831082113.74452.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B9001D8.5DF3EA1A@inet.uni2.dk>

Hello Daryl and everybody else..

- The Elka Synthex does LP, 2xBP and HP w. 3320's..
and it sounds wonderfull !

KIm

TooManySynths wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> My chip based diy modular is coming right along.  I
> abandoned chopping my ARPS <sigh>, chips are pretty
> easy and I have a lot of them :)  Yes this means my
> beat up ody II with five busted sliders is for trade.
>  (everything works, it just has scratches and busted
> sliders, five of em).  If you want it, offer me
> something I'd rather have instead, like modules, or a
> whole lot of bannana jacks.
> 
> My VCO's are 3340 based, I have a bunch of those.  I
> also have a lot of CEM/SSM and now Korg dedicated
> LPFs. I have never liked the 3320 as an lpf and since
> I have several other choices that I like better, I'm
> not going to use it as such.  However, the 3320 is not
> a dedicated LPF and I could build other filters with
> it. My question is, have any of you made 3320
> bandpass/hipass filters and how do they sound.  To my
> ears, hipass filters don't seem to be quite as
> critical as low pass filters so this might be a good
> application for my 3320s.
> 
> Please don't suggest I build discrete circuits, I just
> don't have the patience right now. (A chip for every
> module, and for every module, a chip)
> 
> Thanks
> Daryl
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
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From jdarby at lplizard.com  Fri Aug 31 23:41:50 2001
From: jdarby at lplizard.com (Jon Darby)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:41:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Phase-locked loops and the root of my headache
References: <200108311636.f7VGaWL14960@smtp001pub.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <015c01c13265$be3ed8c0$d836743f@lplizard.com>

Howdy, everyone!
    I would really appreciate it if someone could give me (us?) an overview
of PLLs and their audio applications, particularly the 4046A PLL with VCO
chip. At $1.02 a pop I had to pick one up to play with it, but do not
understand exactly what a phase locked loop is. Reading the data sheet on
the 74HCT4046, it appears the the three different comparators are not
inteded to be used simultaneously?  Does the frequency or whatever is fed
into teh comparator input control the frequency of oscillation of the VCO?
If so, would an external master oscillator drive the PLL's range that it
allows the VCO to oscillate within? Uggh, I'm talking out of my rear at this
point. If anyone has a pointer or two where to start to understand PLLs or
little projects I could do with this beast for fun fun audio fun it would
really be swell.

Your pal,
Jon Darby



