[sdiy] out in the open

[Larry]

At 11:23 AM 9/8/01 +0200, Gert Jalass wrote:
>Just to serve my curiosity :
>* Why should DD use a hotmail address with all that doepfer.de around ?

Who Knows?  Probably is NOT the real person.  But the discussion is still 
valid IMHO.

>* I don't remember DD saying "Heil" during any of the contacts I did have
>with him. He's a German - but ...
>Strange ...
>Gert
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry" <ltroth at socal.rr.com>
>To: "Magnus Danielson" <cfmd at swipnet.se>; <dieter_doepfer at hotmail.com>
>Cc: <frankentron at hotmail.com>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 8:30 AM
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] out in the open
>
>
> > Hello
> >
> > I am fairly new to the list and this is my first posting.  I caught this
> > discussion and was wondering what it was about.  Now, I believe that I
> > know.  Please allow me to add my 2 cents worth.  I am a computer person by
> > trade, and by hobby.  I am getting back into Analog Synthesis after many
> > years away (the last time I was involved, I couldn't come up with the
>money
> > to buy PAIA 2700 series modules that were just being introduced!  And I
> > considered selling my soul to the Devil in order to buy Aries
> > modules!)  But this discussion is really no different from the 'Open
> > Source' software issues and Linux community.  Some people like to do it
> > themselves, others do not have the time, ability, or inclination to do it
> > themselves.  So, Open Source software gets packaged and sold.  There is
> > always a discussion about this, and there will never be a final
> > resolution.  However, most of the companies that do this packaging also
> > contribute back to the community (bug fixes, new packages,
> > ...).  Consider:  Why shouldn't someone be able to buy a kit or assembled
> > module of a design seen here if they do not want to build it from
> > scratch?  On the other hand, shouldn't the original designer or designers
> > get credit for their design?  Remember, credit is often in terms of
> > acknowledgement and recognition and not in dollars.  I certainly can not
> > offer any answer or solution to the situation, but simply consider the
> > possibility that the packaging of ideas and designs posted here may mean
> > that those designs and ideas reach a far greater number of users then they
> > might otherwise.  I would, however, hope that any company using those
>ideas
> > and designs would give credit where credit is due, and would contribute
> > back to this community.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > At 12:08 PM 9/7/01 +0200, Magnus Danielson wrote:
> > >From: "Dieter Doepfer" <dieter_doepfer at hotmail.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [sdiy] out in the open
> > >Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:40:49 +0000
> > >
> > >Hello All,
> > >
> > > > Hallo, Michael
> > > > Your certainly not allone, I to get sometimes the feeling that "some"
> > > > members of this list have a probelm with me. I really wonder why.
> > > > All I do is lurk on this list, I don't contribute so how could I have
> > > up set
> > > > some one?
> > > >
> > > > Heil
> > > > Dipl. Phys. D. Doepfer
> > > >
> > > > *****************************
> > > > ++  http://www.doepfer.de/ ++
> > > > ++  info at doepfer.de        ++
> > > > ++  Lochhamer Str. 63      ++
> > > > ++  8032 Grafeling         ++
> > > > *****************************
> > >
> > >... and the shit hit the fan!
> > >
> > >(no pun intended, just using the expression itself)
> > >
> > >Here we go again.
> > >
> > >/* READ THE TEXT BELOW CAREFULLY!!! MD */
> > >
> > >Now we have allready seen the intermodulation of two old
> > >rages/flame-wars in the Synth-DIY history. We have the "Dieter Doepfer
> > >who stole this and that from so and so" and the "Adolf Stalin"
> > >storries. Anyone been on this list during the last year or so should
> > >have got the references by now.
> > >
> > >As for the "Dieter Doepfer story" I am ambivalent in various
> > >directions, I don't know how to relate to it basically.
> > >
> > >As for the "Adolf Stalin story" I know more than I like. All the
> > >issues where not shown on the list.
> > >
> > >Either way, I don't like having big figths on the list. If you want
> > >that go somewhere else to figth. If you figth offline, please keep a
> > >good face to the list.
> > >
> > >Also, the "Dieter Doepfer story" together with a few other things
> > >brings in another issue. It is equally worthy of a big figth if
> > >treated incorrectly, I just want to give my view on it. Maybe this is
> > >a better figth to have than the others... if we have to figth at all.
> > >
> > >One must recall that there is a fundamental difference between
> > >building stuff for onces own joy and that of designing and sell things
> > >for profit. There's the eluding word... profit. Once one has passed
> > >the line from DIYer to making money or att least allowing others to
> > >make money on designs one is also put into a major dilemma which may
> > >not be apparent or not. What to share and what to not share. The
> > >buissness logic usually say that you should let as little as possible
> > >on your products be known to your competiters in order for you to keep
> > >your (relative) market lead. This effectively means that you shut up
> > >about everything. On the other side lies the DIY spirit where people
> > >are happy to give away design ideas and share good and bad experience.
> > >When the migth dollar, D-mark, krona or whatever comes into play in a
> > >DIY environment, it causes many types of reactions. Some people shut
> > >up because they now make money on things. Some shut up since they feel
> > >that they don't want to give away ideas to other people to make money
> > >out of without getting a share. Some shut up because they get a piece
> > >of the action when someone else capitalize on their design or
> > >findings. Some shut up just because they think that what they share is
> > >being at risk as being "hijacked" by someone else without getting
> > >anything back.
> > >
> > >All this is a very complex issue, and some think it is only an issue
> > >of money, which is far from all. Some think it is only an issue about
> > >getting recognition, which is also not all of it.
> > >
> > >The trouble is how it effects the community, not only the direct
> > >partners.
> > >
> > >We allready know that there are people on this list that sell things
> > >commersially one way or another. The level naturally diffrentiate,
> > >from those that is basically just doing a few DIY-level boxes for
> > >other "freaks" to those that to full-blown commersial products.
> > >
> > >Now, I don't want to burn the fingers on people, but I can't say that
> > >I at all times have felt comfortable with how people have acted
> > >either. For me the nitty-ditty details of this and that case is not
> > >very interesting. However, I would like a serious debate on these
> > >moral dilemmas. Also, I would like to make people aware of the
> > >existence of these dilemmas.
> > >
> > >With this I would like to point out that it is VERY difficult to keep
> > >true to the DIY spirit among other DIYers when also doing money on
> > >it. Once's own judgement gets clouded and it is only a few people
> > >which has a natural talent or awareness enougth to be able to handle
> > >with sufficient care.
> > >
> > >In the end. We need to get all this into balance, or else the
> > >Synth-DIY community that we are will die away. We have allready seen
> > >this happening before in other areas, such as a certain computer club
> > >in Silicon Valey in the 70-80thies.
> > >
> > >Dieter, please don't feel attacked by this, but rather, come over and
> > >share some experience with us.
> > >
> > >Respectfully Yours,
> > >Magnus - I'll think I'll pass as a Synth-DIY oldtimer at least
> >