From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Mar  1 00:47:13 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:47:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <20020228212112.34801.qmail@web20507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004201c1c0b2$3f378780$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Well it takes little practice and a lot of beans & unions.

Theo


From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>

> I can see it now:
> 
> "The amazing Theo virtually redefines anal-ogue
> synthesis with his unique wind actuated controller"
> 
> ;)
> 
> > Air vibrations, pick up with a mic.
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar  1 00:47:22 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:47:22 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <2f.23253fe3.29b01b8a@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/28/02 3:43:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, t.hogers at home.nl 
writes:


> 

Why, using air currents of course! <gets out jet turbine>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020228/853574db/attachment.htm>

From jdm at synthcom.com  Fri Mar  1 01:22:05 2002
From: jdm at synthcom.com (J.D. McEachin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:22:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
In-Reply-To: <004201c1c0b2$3f378780$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <20020228161255.K80536-100000@beacon.synthcom.com>

I recommend beer, hard-boiled eggs, and snickers bars.  Combine the wind
sensor with an odor sensor to modulate multiple sound parameters.  Of
course you will probably have to resign yourself to being a solo act.

JDM


On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Theo wrote:

> Well it takes little practice and a lot of beans & unions.
>
> From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>
>
> > I can see it now:
> >
> > "The amazing Theo virtually redefines anal-ogue
> > synthesis with his unique wind actuated controller"
> >
> > ;)
> >
> > > Air vibrations, pick up with a mic.



From bobo at decapod.net  Fri Mar  1 01:26:38 2002
From: bobo at decapod.net (Bob Roesler)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:26:38 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <20020228212112.34801.qmail@web20507.mail.yahoo.com> <004201c1c0b2$3f378780$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c0b8$98dc1480$100400c0@killerobot.com>

Like yhe weather, everyone talks about the science of rectal,
but almost noone ever does anything about it.

I smell a golden opportunity.

bob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Theo" <t.hogers at home.nl>
To: "TooManySynths" <p8051 at yahoo.com>; <harrybissell at prodigy.net>;
<john.l.marshall at gte.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch


> Well it takes little practice and a lot of beans & unions.
>
> Theo
>
>
> From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>
>
> > I can see it now:
> >
> > "The amazing Theo virtually redefines anal-ogue
> > synthesis with his unique wind actuated controller"
> >
> > ;)
> >
> > > Air vibrations, pick up with a mic.
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> > http://greetings.yahoo.com
> >
>



From moho at mohodisco.com  Fri Mar  1 01:52:37 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:52:37 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <20020228161255.K80536-100000@beacon.synthcom.com>
Message-ID: <016101c1c0bb$62683b60$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

Yeah, and you wouldn't even need a separate fog machine...

Lava

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J.D. McEachin" <jdm at synthcom.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Cc: "Neil Bradley" <neil at beacon.synthcom.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch


> I recommend beer, hard-boiled eggs, and snickers bars.  Combine the wind
> sensor with an odor sensor to modulate multiple sound parameters.  Of
> course you will probably have to resign yourself to being a solo act.
> 
> JDM
> 
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Theo wrote:
> 
> > Well it takes little practice and a lot of beans & unions.
> >
> > From: TooManySynths <p8051 at yahoo.com>
> >
> > > I can see it now:
> > >
> > > "The amazing Theo virtually redefines anal-ogue
> > > synthesis with his unique wind actuated controller"
> > >
> > > ;)
> > >
> > > > Air vibrations, pick up with a mic.
> 


From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Mar  1 02:17:17 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:17:17 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Pacific Northwest Meeting
References: <1.5.4.32.20020226042716.011d5970@popa.melbpc.org.au> <3C7B230C.3B74CF71@prodigy.net> <00f801c1bf25$7be0a6a0$8e78b9d9@debitel.net> <004b01c1bfa0$f7e58010$0000a398@yourjjezkx0elp> <007a01c1bfc8$0dcae650$0100a8c0@Tigger> <001901c1c015$f3c4ed20$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <3C7ED69D.49571314@silcom.com>

    How close is this going to be to Everet, WA?  I was thinking of planning a
trip to visit my sister up there...this might be a good excuse to not only
visit her, but to look for a job up there and do some Synth-DIY shmoozing.

John L Marshall wrote:

> The first Pacific Northwest Meeting of Synth-DIY.
>
> I have booked a large room at Renton Technical College for Saturday, July
> 20, 2002
>
> The room will be free if we encourage interested RTC student participation.
> Is that okay?
>
> I would appreciate pointers from others that have hosted Synth-DIY meeting
> elsewhere.
>
> I would appreciate ideas from those that plan on participating.
>
> Should we share this meeting with Analog Heaven? There are probably more
> performers in AH.
>
> 1. Show and Tell?
> 2. Swap meet?
> 3. Demos?
> 4. Performance?
> 5. Lunch?
> 6. Dinner?
> 7. No beer on campus!
>
> Who else in the Northwet want to help out? Or just let it happen.
>
> Thanks guys,
> John

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From voltagecontrolled at cox.net  Fri Mar  1 02:40:06 2002
From: voltagecontrolled at cox.net (Buck Buchanan)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:40:06 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Amazing audio link page
Message-ID: <3C7EDBF6.7000502@cox.net>

Hi all,

Maybe this is old news but I just stumbled across this place that must 
be the greatest audio link site ever!  I just had to post it.  Each 
category listed on the page below represents a whole other link page in 
that catagory.  I only spent 10 minutes bopping around this thing but it 
seems like a great resource!  Students must bookmark this.  I noticed 
they don't seem to have a category on analog synthesis but given the 
variety there, I doubt they'd be opposed to it.

Enjoy.

http://www.audioscientific.com/default.htm

-Buck-
-----------------
"You can't, incidentally, have too many relays.  An electronic music 
studio wants to grow, and grow, and grow, and grow.  And relays get used 
up very fast."   -Raymond Scott- 1962





From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri Mar  1 03:09:27 2002
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:09:27 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH!
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020301020927.011f8054@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 05:12 PM 28/02/02 -0500, Rob B" <cyborgzero wrote:
>Er, this can be done *without* the glove at all, btw..
>We used to have an ultrasonic targeting system made by Oehler, that
>could track the trajectories for a short time and tell you where it
>hit without a target back at the firing bay..
>
I believe tis is not ultrasonic, but works by looking at the relative time
the shockwave (generated by all faster-than-sound projectiles) reaches a
number of microphones.

paul perry



From jhaible at debitel.net  Fri Mar  1 03:31:25 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 03:31:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] harmonic generator & megaloopers
References: <B8A3B76E.37E8C%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <00a701c1c0c9$31073540$0c7fb9d9@debitel.net>


> The only time I have seen this mentioned is Electronotes #45 Page 21
> "Transform methods in musical engineering" where Bernie talks about how
the
> Fourier series fails for gated sine waves. But he does not say what does
> happens exactly, or why fading in a sine wave vs. gating it removes the
> clicks mathematically.

Think of a gated or faded sine as a multiplication of the sine and the
envelope
(step functions for gating, ramp functions for linear fading, etc.)
Multiplication in time domain becomes convolution in frequency domain.
Fourier transform of rectangle function is a sin(x)/x function. Fourier
transform
of sine is a dirac impulse. (Actually two; the 2nd one is at negative
frequency).
So the convolution is easy: it's the sin(x)/x function itself.
Instead of a single "line" (dirac) at the frequency of the sine (f) you get
a function
with an absolute maximum at f, and with an infinite number of local maxima
with
decreasing amplitude. Distance between maxima depends on gate length.
This was for a rectangular gate function (I hope I got that right). You can
do a
similar calculation for other window functions.
As the convolution is always done with a dirac pulse (the sine wave in
frequency
domain), the harmonic contents of the window function will directly reflect
the amount of artefacts in the gated sine signal.
So a triangle (or trapezoid) will produce less "click" than a rectangle, and
I guess
a raised cosine would be even smoother.

JH.




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar  1 03:33:10 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:33:10 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <5b.23bf928e.29b04266@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/28/02 7:21:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, jdm at synthcom.com 
writes:


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend beer, hard-boiled eggs, and snickers bars.  Combine the wind
> sensor with an odor sensor to modulate multiple sound parameters.  Of
> course you will probably have to resign yourself to being a solo act.
> 


Does pissing on some sort of control surface count as touching the synth?

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020228/3348f058/attachment.htm>

From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar  1 03:36:05 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:36:05 EST
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH!
Message-ID: <22.2474661a.29b04315@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/28/02 9:14:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
pfperry at melbpc.org.au writes:


> I believe tis is not ultrasonic, but works by looking at the relative time
> the shockwave (generated by all faster-than-sound projectiles) reaches a
> 

Hmm..This would have difficulty with subsonic muzzle velocites then, wouldn't 
it?

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020228/ce03f135/attachment.htm>

From matti at devo.com  Fri Mar  1 04:13:48 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:13:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
In-Reply-To: <F4Gjk9NrN75kzGOk1CB000176ae@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0202282209410.17987-100000@whipit.devo.com>

Voice. setup a microphone, then extract information using your favorite
look-what's-up-my-sleeve synthesis processes. Something more advanced than
the typical envelope extractor would allow for, well, more advanced
control.

enjoy


On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Happy Harry wrote:

> Air velocity (blow on a little propeller) ???
>
> H^) harry
>
>
> >From: "John L Marshall" <john.l.marshall at gte.net>
> >To: "Synth DIY List" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
> >Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:08:13 -0800
> >
> >The Korg thread start me thinking, again (I know, dangerous).
> >
> >How many ways are there to control an analog synthesizer without touching?
> >
> >1. Electrostatic detuning (Theremin)
> >2. Electromagnetic detuning (with a magnetic ring on a finger)
> >3. Ultrasonic reflection
> >4. Infrared reflection
> >5. Optical reflection
> >6. Optical interruption
> >7. Infrared interruption
> >8. Ultrasonic interruption
> >9. Light pen and photocell targets
> >10. Wand with accelerometer
> >11. Video camera and a powerful computer
> >
> >
> >Feel free to add to the list.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>

-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Fri Mar  1 04:58:33 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (Oren B. Leavitt)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:58:33 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <e.1aeb928b.29afe9df@aol.com> <003101c1c098$7f0ffa00$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <3C7EFC69.91373D10@ix.netcom.com>

Here in southern California, USA, there are frequent minor earthquakes
that will move it for you.
Hmmm...A 'Synthe-seisomograph' ;-)


Theo wrote:

> And how are you going to move the synth without touching?
>
> From: <LBC40X at aol.com>
>
> >
> >
> >        how about a mercury tilt switch? whenever the synth moves the
> > sound/pitch/note will change
> >

--
Oren Leavitt
oleavitt at ix.netcom.com




From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Mar  1 05:35:45 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:35:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <e.1aeb928b.29afe9df@aol.com> <003101c1c098$7f0ffa00$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <3C7EFC69.91373D10@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c1c0da$8da83860$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Actually I kind of like the Mercury switch idea for a shoulder strap synth.
Controlling parameters depending on the position you hold the synth in.
May work for  guitar too.
Probably sucks in praxis but still like the idea.

Theo


From: Oren B. Leavitt <oleavitt at ix.netcom.com>

> Here in southern California, USA, there are frequent minor earthquakes
> that will move it for you.
> Hmmm...A 'Synthe-seisomograph' ;-)
> 
> 
> Theo wrote:
> 
> > And how are you going to move the synth without touching?
> >
> > From: <LBC40X at aol.com>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >        how about a mercury tilt switch? whenever the synth moves the
> > > sound/pitch/note will change
> > >
> 
> --
> Oren Leavitt
> oleavitt at ix.netcom.com
> 
> 



From scott at tellun.com  Fri Mar  1 05:55:59 2002
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:55:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
In-Reply-To: <5b.23bf928e.29b04266@aol.com>
References: <5b.23bf928e.29b04266@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p05100301b8a4ba1a59fa@[192.168.1.101]>

At 9:33 PM -0500 2002/02/28, CHoaglin at aol.com wrote:
>
>Does pissing on some sort of control surface count as touching the synth?
>
>-Chris

Just make sure one side of your sensor isn't tied to the mains.


From cyborgzero at home.com  Fri Mar  1 06:08:59 2002
From: cyborgzero at home.com (Rob B)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:08:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <5b.23bf928e.29b04266@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c0df$3258b980$0501a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>

 Does pissing on some sort of control surface count as touching the
synth?
>
> -Chris
>

Only if the unit is charged to 100kV. ;)

Rob



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Mar  1 06:09:20 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 00:09:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <5b.23bf928e.29b04266@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F0CFF.DB474BD2@prodigy.net>

CHoaglin at aol.com wrote:

<snip>

> Does pissing on some sort of control surface count as touching the
> synth?

If its seperate droplets... no. If it is a continuous stream, yes.  The
judgement is made
by having the artist stand barefoot on a metal plate, with the synth at
an opposite high
voltage potential.....

H^) harry

>
>



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Fri Mar  1 07:39:05 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:39:05 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <e.1aeb928b.29afe9df@aol.com> <003101c1c098$7f0ffa00$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <3C7EFC69.91373D10@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <00c401c1c0eb$c8d47960$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Funny that you mention earthquakes today. There was a pretty good shaker
here in Seattle one year ago today.

John


----- Original Message -----
From: Oren B. Leavitt <oleavitt at ix.netcom.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch


> Here in southern California, USA, there are frequent minor earthquakes
> that will move it for you.
> Hmmm...A 'Synthe-seisomograph' ;-)
>
>
> Theo wrote:
>
> > And how are you going to move the synth without touching?
> >
> > From: <LBC40X at aol.com>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >        how about a mercury tilt switch? whenever the synth moves the
> > > sound/pitch/note will change
> > >
>
> --
> Oren Leavitt
> oleavitt at ix.netcom.com
>
>
>



From jdm at synthcom.com  Fri Mar  1 07:49:23 2002
From: jdm at synthcom.com (jdm at synthcom.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:49:23 -0800
Subject: FWD: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020228224923.00a918c0@synthcom.com>

This thread has long since gone off the rails, but this one tops them all.

JDM

>Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:18:49 -0800 (PST)
>From: Neil Bradley <neil at synthcom.com>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>
>> > I recommend beer, hard-boiled eggs, and snickers bars.  Combine the wind
>> > sensor with an odor sensor to modulate multiple sound parameters.  Of
>> > course you will probably have to resign yourself to being a solo act.
>
>> Does pissing on some sort of control surface count as touching the synth?
>
>Ooooh... Ideas abound!
>
>* A Fecofilter(tm) control. Defecate more to increase the filter cutoff.
>Nonsolid defecation results in unpredictable filter modulation.
>
>* Loogielayer(tm) mode. Layer mode control that lasts as long as the
>loogie is in liquid form.
>
>* Wah-wah-woody(tm). Only available for male players. Provides erection
>controlled modulation (ECM). Will not function in a guitar environment.
>
>* BoogerFooger(tm) (Bob, eat your heart out). Not sure what this does, but
>it has something to do with envelopes, filters, overdrives, and boogers.
>
>* Orgascilator(tm). Orgasm controlled oscillator. Insert capacitive probe
>far enough in any orifice to achieve a brilliant filter sweep.
>
>* Tampass filter(tm). Processes audio as if it were run through a tampon.
>
>And here I thought the bridge between bodily functions and synthesizers
>would EVER be gapped!
>
>I'll leave you all with this thought:
>
> http://www.engrish.com/recentdiscoveries.html
>
>-->Neil
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Neil Bradley            Whoever said "Money can't buy happiness" didn't have
>Synthcom Systems, Inc.  a lot of money.
>ICQ #29402898



From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Mar  1 07:16:25 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 07:16:25
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <20020301151641.IXEG12982.out008.verizon.net@mail.lan>

An extension of this idea might be to us a vial filled
with dyed water.  A photoresistor could then receive 
light passed thru the vial.  Then tipping the vial 
would cause the resistance to change.

epeasant at telusplanet.net wrote:
>Hello, All,
>
>Actually, I think a mercury switch type controller could have some very interesting
>real possibilites. If you set up a series of switches each activating at a slightly
>higher angle, and then wired them to a standard resistor divider, it could play
>different notes based on angle. I think that I may have enough mercury switches
>to try this some time. The tune-tilter is born!
>
>Take care,
>Doug
>
>______________________
>The Electronic Peasant
>
>www.electronicpeasant.com

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From chris.crosskey at vicon.com  Fri Mar  1 09:11:10 2002
From: chris.crosskey at vicon.com (Chris Crosskey)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:11:10 -0000 
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)
Message-ID: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D0208560CD82D9@FILESERV>

I'd be very interested in this too, I have a Transcendent 2000 tha tneeds a
keyboard transplant and an Elektor Formant keyboard that coudl do with
one....

chrisc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stein Seim [mailto:steiseim at online.no]
> Sent: 28 February 2002 19:47
> To: Steven Cook
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Bought two of those keyboards, about a year ago.
> They are Fatar with single pole contacts.
> Haven't fixed mine yet, but gonna use the same system as the 
> Spectrum synth
> with the bars for Cv and Gate signals.
> Anybody other out there who have fixed them?
> 
> Stein
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steven Cook" <stevencook at appleonline.net>
> To: "Synth DIY list" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:51 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I noticed in the Feb edition of Everyday Practical 
> Electronics that J&N
> > Factors are advertising what are described as 3-Octave 
> keyboard assemblies
> > with 'piano-sized keys' at only 9.5ukp in their 2 for the price of 1
> > section. Postage is 4.5ukp for bulky orders. Might be of 
> use to somebody.
> > 
> > J&N Factors
> > Pilgrim Works (Dept EE)
> > Stairbridge Lane
> > Bolney
> > Sussex
> > RH17 5PA
> > 
> > 01444 881 965
> > 
> > jnfactors at aol.com
> > 
> > 
> > Steven Cook
> > http://www.btinternet.com/~stevencook1/csound.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in
error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the
information in any way, and notify me immediately.


From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 10:06:42 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:06:42 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <1.5.4.32.20020226042716.011d5970@popa.melbpc.org.au> <3C7B230C.3B74CF71@prodigy.net> <00f801c1bf25$7be0a6a0$8e78b9d9@debitel.net> <004b01c1bfa0$f7e58010$0000a398@yourjjezkx0elp> <007a01c1bfc8$0dcae650$0100a8c0@Tigger> <002901c1c01e$4e49dd20$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <20020228025827.C17164@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <3C7F44A2.12AE46BD@globalnet.co.uk>

Hello,

GothGeek Sysadmin wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:08:13PM -0800, John L Marshall wrote:
> > The Korg thread start me thinking, again (I know, dangerous).
> >
> > How many ways are there to control an analog synthesizer without touching?
> 
> How about the experiments using alpha brainwaves?
> There is an element of touch involved ( the electrodes ) but after that...

I've found shouting at the little beggars sometimes works - especially when they
won't do what I want them to do!   :)

Regards
   David
-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk




From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 10:32:59 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:32:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <002101c1c07e$f539c220$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
		<20020228212112.34801.qmail@web20507.mail.yahoo.com> <20020228.223815.90120114.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3C7F4ACB.A30049E5@globalnet.co.uk>

Hello,

Magnus Danielson wrote:

> You mean fart-control....

Who was it made a single entirely out of sampled and transposed farts?
 
> (really comes from a Swedish joke based on Swinglish... but most
> people here doesn't understand Swedish so I will not explain it
> further. Keyword: Volvo)

My mother-in-law was forever refering to their Volvo 440 and a Vulva 440.

Is this the same joke?

Regards
   David
-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk




From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 10:36:07 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:36:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <20020228161255.K80536-100000@beacon.synthcom.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F4B87.FB7292DB@globalnet.co.uk>

Hello all,

"J.D. McEachin" wrote:
> 
> I recommend beer, hard-boiled eggs, and snickers bars.  Combine the wind
> sensor with an odor sensor to modulate multiple sound parameters.  Of
> course you will probably have to resign yourself to being a solo act.

Any of you guys heard of the band "Air Sculpture"?    :)

Regards
   David
-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk




From colin at colinfraser.com  Fri Mar  1 13:06:42 2002
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:06:42 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
In-Reply-To: <3C7F4ACB.A30049E5@globalnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000a01c1c119$8d2fd570$821f68d5@zen>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of David Hughes
> Sent: 01 March 2002 9:33
> To: Magnus Danielson; Synth DIY List
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch
> 
> Who was it made a single entirely out of sampled and transposed farts?

Mariah Carey ?
Elton John ?

etc...

Colin f



From franck.pissotte at free.fr  Fri Mar  1 14:36:53 2002
From: franck.pissotte at free.fr (Franck Pissotte)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:36:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] FS/FT:book vintage synthesizers (1st ed) and french music magazines
Message-ID: <3C7F83F5.B27EF5F5@free.fr>

i have to sell the book
title: vintage synthesizers (1st ed not the last)
author: Vail
editor: Gpi Books
isbn: 0-87930-275-5
year: 93
condition: like new
see cover: <http://franck.pissotte.free.fr/livres/vail.png>
shipping: france 3 euros, europa 5 euros, north america: 7 euros
no idea what it is worth, so make your offer
accept cheque in euros draw on a french bank
or euros bank notes (multiple of 5 euros)
will also accept a trade against one of the classic book for synth DIY.
the list of what i want is at <http://franck.pissotte.free.fr/4trade.htm>

i also have several french magazines:
Keyboards hors serie no 2 (90) ? 10 (94) et no 16 (97)
Home Studio hors serie no 1 (94) 
Home Studio (suppl?ments ? Keyboards) no 1,2,3,9,11,15,18,19,21,23,25,39 
Keyboards no 133 Juin 99, no 142 avril 00 
Atari magazine no 8 octobre 88 special MAO 
Musicien hors serie no 1 (89) (tout sur les synthes) 
Micro & Musique no 8 aout/septembre 98 et 2 CD
see covers:<http://franck.pissotte.free.fr/_musiques.htm>
all for 25 euros including shipping in france.
-- 
http://www.pascaland.org/ compilateurs, sources et liens langage pascal, delphi
http://franck.pissotte.free.fr/ mon vide grenier: vieux materiels, logiciels, livres et revues




From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Mar  1 14:44:13 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:44:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Fw: [AH] R. I. P. : Oskar Sala
Message-ID: <004601c1c127$2d03e5c0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Forward from analogue heaven.
One of the great pioneers has gone.

Theo

From: <wavecomputer360 at gmx.de>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:46 AM
Subject: [AH] R. I. P. : Oskar Sala


Hi all,

I don?t know if I?m the first to mention this to the list but I just learned
from my newspaper that Oskar Sala has passed at the age of 91. The article
doesn?t mention the circumstances around his death but I guess it was due to
his old age. I recently spoke to a German film maker who did a documentary
on Sala last year, and this film maker told me that Mr. Sala was so puzzled
at the end that he accused Mr. Borowicz (the guy who, among others, rebuilt
the Trautonium for him in the late 80s) had stolen the subharmonics! Sala
even ripped his instrument apart in order to search for them.

There is a nice documentary on Sala available through upstart! films
(www.upstart.de) called "Oskar Sala -- Die vergangene Zukunft des Klanges"
(not that original a title, but here we go).

I am very happy that I had the chance to talk to Mr. Sala twice in my life
(one conversation has even been recorded on tape), and I?ll keep him a warm
place in my heart.

Stephen




From andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu  Fri Mar  1 15:02:31 2002
From: andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu (David Anderson)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:02:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)
In-Reply-To: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D0208560CD82D9@FILESERV>
Message-ID: <1361069909.1014973351@DAVIDA>

Mmmm... PowerTran 2000.... if I had that I could be Joy Division :)

--On Friday, March 01, 2002, 8:11 AM +0000 Chris Crosskey
<chris.crosskey at vicon.com> wrote:

> I'd be very interested in this too, I have a Transcendent 2000 tha tneeds
> a keyboard transplant and an Elektor Formant keyboard that coudl do with
> one....



From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Fri Mar  1 15:51:20 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:51:20 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <3c7f9568.6e89.0@telusplanet.net>

Hello, All,

Actually, I think a mercury switch type controller could have some very interesting
real possibilites. If you set up a series of switches each activating at a slightly
higher angle, and then wired them to a standard resistor divider, it could play
different notes based on angle. I think that I may have enough mercury switches
to try this some time. The tune-tilter is born!

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Fri Mar  1 16:00:22 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:00:22 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <3c7f9786.4cb.0@telusplanet.net>

Hello, again,

I think I could put a "girth controlled synth" to some good use. Then there
is the "halitosis modulator", not to mention the "ear wax controller" and the
"fingernail length controller" for drones.

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 16:32:58 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:32:58 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)
References: <1361069909.1014973351@DAVIDA>
Message-ID: <3C7F9F2A.C6C54EC2@globalnet.co.uk>

Hello all,

David Anderson wrote:

> --On Friday, March 01, 2002, 8:11 AM +0000 Chris Crosskey
> <chris.crosskey at vicon.com> wrote:
> 
> > I'd be very interested in this too, I have a Transcendent 2000 tha tneeds
> > a keyboard transplant and an Elektor Formant keyboard that coudl do with
> > one....
> 
> Mmmm... PowerTran 2000.... if I had that I could be Joy Division :)

PowerTran 2000. Isn't that the keyboard with the patented "Sample and Droop"
circuit? :)

Anyone here built their expandable Polysynth? That was a beauty! Only saw one
working machine but it sounded mighty fine, like a Prophet V with balls. 

Regards
   David
-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk




From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Fri Mar  1 16:34:53 2002
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:34:53 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
In-Reply-To: <3c7f9568.6e89.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020301103453.007d9100@hoohahrecords.com>

At 02:51 PM 3/1/02 GMT, epeasant at telusplanet.net wrote:
>Hello, All,
>
>Actually, I think a mercury switch type controller could have some very
interesting
>real possibilites. If you set up a series of switches each activating at a
slightly
>higher angle, and then wired them to a standard resistor divider, it could
play
>different notes based on angle. I think that I may have enough mercury
switches
>to try this some time. The tune-tilter is born!
>
>Take care,
>Doug
>
>______________________
>The Electronic Peasant
>
>www.electronicpeasant.com
>


Downside is that if you drop it your studio will become an EPA Superfund
site....

Dave

Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar  1 18:07:58 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:07:58 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)
References: <1361069909.1014973351@DAVIDA> <3C7F9F2A.C6C54EC2@globalnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002901c1c143$ac1966c0$a468893e@default>

>Anyone here built their expandable Polysynth?

Yes... but I'm now using it as a foot stool. No kidding. I built up mine
as a eight voice on one box. Nice sounding... but tempermental on the
tuning front. I stripped it down to a Four voice ages ago, after it
caught fire during a heavy session. I have no idea why the power
transformer did that.

Now the box stands under used, except as a foot stool. But basically it
needs a good work out with decent metal film and Holco resistors. The
original 5% carbons I used are a little drifty.

I think if I ever do anything with it is to use the CEMs for other
things. Sad but true.

Regards,

Tony Allgood                   Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Sound Systems                 www.oakleysound.com

Modular Synth Projects: www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
My music:                         www.mp3.com/taklamakan




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar  1 20:27:11 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:27:11 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <103.11794b9a.29b1300f@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/1/02 12:02:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
cyborgzero at home.com writes:


> Only if the unit is charged to 100kV. ;)
> 

My uncle (who now designs transmitters for Harris) related a story to me 
about hooking a spark coil from an old Ford to a urinal in high 
school....that must've been a shocking experience for a few people.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020301/4f6c7737/attachment.htm>

From n0nspaz at mindspring.com  Fri Mar  1 20:31:02 2002
From: n0nspaz at mindspring.com (markus)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:31:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020301142834.00c9c330@pop.mindspring.com>

i'd appreciate hearing about other kinds of switches people use for 
multi-pole operations (4+ poles). i was thinking of a pushbutton array like 
on a blender, but cannot seem to find these in electronic (vs. mechanical) 
form.
regards
mark scetta



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar  1 20:35:32 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:35:32 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <120.c2341a6.29b13204@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/1/02 4:12:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
dhughes at globalnet.co.uk writes:


> I've found shouting at the little beggars sometimes works - especially when 
> they
> won't do what I want them to do!   

Or screaming about how "I've got a screwdriver, and I'm not afraid to use 
it!!!"
That works on computers sometimes at least..

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020301/2be96bd5/attachment.htm>

From JohnS at molectron.com  Fri Mar  1 20:51:21 2002
From: JohnS at molectron.com (John Speth)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:51:21 -0800 
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
Message-ID: <9F36E0A056B6D04F81829A34832B9C1F418C2F@mdimail.molectron.com>

> i'd appreciate hearing about other kinds of switches people use for 
> multi-pole operations (4+ poles). i was thinking of a 
> pushbutton array like 
> on a blender, but cannot seem to find these in electronic 
> (vs. mechanical) 

This question comes up in my brain often.  Seems to me that it's much
cheaper today to implement an electronic selector circuit with a pot and an
MCU with an ADC input.  You get the added bonus of the smarts of an MCU.  

If only there were pots available with a series of equally spaced detents to
give the feeling of a selector switch, we'd have the problem solved.  Anyone
know of pots with detents?

John Speth
mailto:johns at molectron.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020301/c9572fec/attachment.htm>

From steiseim at online.no  Fri Mar  1 21:19:30 2002
From: steiseim at online.no (Stein Seim)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:19:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)
References: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D0208560CD82D9@FILESERV>
Message-ID: <000d01c1c15e$6998e940$c41dfea9@no1music>

Hi!

It's a Fatar 305A type keyboard, delivered with software for a micro.
What I have done so far is to drill two holes in every key and drawed the pcb for the resistorchain and bus bars.  Hopefully it will be finished during springtime.
The keyboard will be used for my Formant synth.

Stein

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Crosskey" <chris.crosskey at vicon.com>
To: "SD (E-mail)" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)


> I'd be very interested in this too, I have a Transcendent 2000 tha tneeds a
> keyboard transplant and an Elektor Formant keyboard that coudl do with
> one....
> 
> chrisc
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stein Seim [mailto:steiseim at online.no]
> > Sent: 28 February 2002 19:47
> > To: Steven Cook
> > Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)
> > 
> > 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > Bought two of those keyboards, about a year ago.
> > They are Fatar with single pole contacts.
> > Haven't fixed mine yet, but gonna use the same system as the 
> > Spectrum synth
> > with the bars for Cv and Gate signals.
> > Anybody other out there who have fixed them?
> > 
> > Stein
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Steven Cook" <stevencook at appleonline.net>
> > To: "Synth DIY list" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:51 PM
> > Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 3 Octave Keyboards (UK)
> > 
> > 
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I noticed in the Feb edition of Everyday Practical 
> > Electronics that J&N
> > > Factors are advertising what are described as 3-Octave 
> > keyboard assemblies
> > > with 'piano-sized keys' at only 9.5ukp in their 2 for the price of 1
> > > section. Postage is 4.5ukp for bulky orders. Might be of 
> > use to somebody.
> > > 
> > > J&N Factors
> > > Pilgrim Works (Dept EE)
> > > Stairbridge Lane
> > > Bolney
> > > Sussex
> > > RH17 5PA
> > > 
> > > 01444 881 965
> > > 
> > > jnfactors at aol.com
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Steven Cook
> > > http://www.btinternet.com/~stevencook1/csound.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in
> error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the
> information in any way, and notify me immediately.
> 
> 



From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Fri Mar  1 21:28:15 2002
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:28:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020301142834.00c9c330@pop.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020301152815.007d85f0@hoohahrecords.com>

At 02:31 PM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>i'd appreciate hearing about other kinds of switches people use for 
>multi-pole operations (4+ poles). i was thinking of a pushbutton array like 
>on a blender, but cannot seem to find these in electronic (vs. mechanical) 
>form.
>regards
>mark scetta
>

I have a logic-based circuit that should do what you need.  It's something
that I got from Tom Gamble (EFM) a few years back, but I've never tried it
yet.  Anyone who wants the schematic can email me off list.

Dave


Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Fri Mar  1 21:36:50 2002
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:36:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
In-Reply-To: <9F36E0A056B6D04F81829A34832B9C1F418C2F@mdimail.molectron.c
 om>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020301153650.007d9820@hoohahrecords.com>

At 11:51 AM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Anyone know of pots with detents? 
>


Mouser has 16mm Xicon pots (carbon comp) with 11 detents.  

linear: 313-3000-value
log: 313-4000-value

Dave Magnuson

Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From colin at colinfraser.com  Fri Mar  1 21:56:44 2002
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:56:44 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
In-Reply-To: <9F36E0A056B6D04F81829A34832B9C1F418C2F@mdimail.molectron.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1c163$98522d50$821f68d5@zen>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of John Speth
> Sent: 01 March 2002 7:51
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
> 
> This question comes up in my brain often.  Seems to me that 
> it's much cheaper today to implement an electronic selector 
> circuit with a pot and an MCU with an ADC input.  You get the 
> added bonus of the smarts of an MCU.  
> If only there were pots available with a series of equally 
> spaced detents to give the feeling of a selector switch, we'd 
> have the problem solved.  Anyone know of pots with detents?

Roland used detented sliders as switches in a number of products, for
example the PG800 programmer.
They're multiplexed into an ADC, then quantized to however many
positions they need, 2, 3 or 4.
This makes for a simpler design than having to implement multiplexed CV
reading and switch scanning.
I've never seen detented sliders for sale tho'. I guess you could make
your own with a bit of ingenuity.

Colin f



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  1 22:33:01 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:33:01 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
Message-ID: <F216C0AHmKqyPmBIzJ9000022bf@hotmail.com>

I just bought some Grayhill mechanical rotary encoders...
hex output 16 position with detents... for about $3.50 each
(in one-sies)

Life of 100,000 operations (full rotations).

That could be used for a lot of switch functions...

H^) harry


>From: John Speth <JohnS at molectron.com>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
>Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:51:21 -0800
>
> > i'd appreciate hearing about other kinds of switches people use for
> > multi-pole operations (4+ poles). i was thinking of a
> > pushbutton array like
> > on a blender, but cannot seem to find these in electronic
> > (vs. mechanical)
>
>This question comes up in my brain often.  Seems to me that it's much
>cheaper today to implement an electronic selector circuit with a pot and an
>MCU with an ADC input.  You get the added bonus of the smarts of an MCU.
>
>If only there were pots available with a series of equally spaced detents 
>to
>give the feeling of a selector switch, we'd have the problem solved.  
>Anyone
>know of pots with detents?
>
>John Speth
>mailto:johns at molectron.com




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From blacet at blacet.com  Fri Mar  1 22:36:42 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:36:42 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Blacet March Madness Sale
References: <000801c1c163$98522d50$821f68d5@zen>
Message-ID: <3C7FF46B.3100F639@blacet.com>

Check out this unique sounding switched capacitor filter......a must
have!

We must be crazzeeee, but here's a real deal: $20 off on the Final
Filtre KIT!

For a mere $119, you get this great sounding filter, while supplies
last! (Kit only)

Includes professional PCB, beautiful front panel, all parts, complete
instructions!

More Details
(including a sound sample: a little rough folks, don't know where those
two bumps came from --not the filter.
Just fired up this mp3 software...)
http://www.blacet.com/FF.html

Home Page:
http://www.blacet.com

Buy It Now:
http://www.blacet.com/store2.html

--
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com





From voltagecontrolled at cox.net  Sat Mar  2 00:53:06 2002
From: voltagecontrolled at cox.net (Buck Buchanan)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:53:06 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
References: <3.0.6.32.20020301153650.007d9820@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <3C801462.9030709@cox.net>

Dave Magnuson wrote:

 >>Anyone know of pots with detents? 

> Mouser has 16mm Xicon pots (carbon comp) with 11 detents.  
> 
> linear: 313-3000-value
> log: 313-4000-value


(referring to the Pot-to-ATC idea mentioned by John)


Just thought I'd throw in 2 cents here as several years ago I used these 
exact parts on several modules.  In the field, they got dirty and 
scratchy within a year.  They have required semi-regular cleaning but 
are still in use today.  I believe it was slots in the back (for the 
detents) that caused this.

Of course, in your application, that noise probably wouldn't matter as 
long as you had a healthy RC on the way into the ADC.

If you want a couple-three of them I'll send them to you gratis.

Buck







From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sat Mar  2 01:19:38 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:19:38 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <3c7f9568.6e89.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <000901c1c17f$f11e80c0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

I like it!

John


----- Original Message -----
From: <epeasant at telusplanet.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch


> Hello, All,
>
> Actually, I think a mercury switch type controller could have some very
interesting
> real possibilites. If you set up a series of switches each activating at a
slightly
> higher angle, and then wired them to a standard resistor divider, it could
play
> different notes based on angle. I think that I may have enough mercury
switches
> to try this some time. The tune-tilter is born!
>
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ______________________
> The Electronic Peasant
>
> www.electronicpeasant.com
>



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar  2 01:22:05 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:22:05 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
In-Reply-To: <120.c2341a6.29b13204@aol.com>
References: <120.c2341a6.29b13204@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020302.012205.104033317.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: CHoaglin at aol.com
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:35:32 EST

> In a message dated 3/1/02 4:12:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> dhughes at globalnet.co.uk writes:
> 
> 
> > I've found shouting at the little beggars sometimes works - especially when 
> > they
> > won't do what I want them to do!   
> 
> Or screaming about how "I've got a screwdriver, and I'm not afraid to use 
> it!!!"
> That works on computers sometimes at least..

That's scary man...

Also, this means this thread have moved from a low level to scary movies...

Shouts and threats... hmm... still doesn't make a good don't touch
control.

The odd fellow Ralph Lundsten (local old scool out of the woods kind
of fella) has a camera/TV-monitor setup which allows him to play his
synthesizers without touching anything (except a few air molecules,
but it is kind of hard to avoid doing that without boiling away).

I think he has had this setup since the 70thies or something, so it
isn't all that advanced.

Cheers,
Magnus - who is stupid enougth to think there is a serious side to
this thread


From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar  2 01:24:31 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:24:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
References: <4.2.0.58.20020301142834.00c9c330@pop.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C801BBF.2080302@addcom.de>

how about a slider or rotary pot sending voltage to a comarator ladder 
to control analog switches?

mark

markus wrote:

> i'd appreciate hearing about other kinds of switches people use for 
> multi-pole operations (4+ poles). i was thinking of a pushbutton array 
> like on a blender, but cannot seem to find these in electronic (vs. 
> mechanical) form.
> regards
> mark scetta
>
>




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar  2 01:27:11 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:27:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
References: <9F36E0A056B6D04F81829A34832B9C1F418C2F@mdimail.molectron.com>
Message-ID: <3C801C5F.7030209@addcom.de>

mouser has them with 11 detents.

mark

John Speth wrote:

> > i'd appreciate hearing about other kinds of switches people use for
> > multi-pole operations (4+ poles). i was thinking of a
> > pushbutton array like
> > on a blender, but cannot seem to find these in electronic
> > (vs. mechanical)
>
> This question comes up in my brain often.  Seems to me that it's much 
> cheaper today to implement an electronic selector circuit with a pot 
> and an MCU with an ADC input.  You get the added bonus of the smarts 
> of an MCU. 
>
> If only there were pots available with a series of equally spaced 
> detents to give the feeling of a selector switch, we'd have the 
> problem solved.  Anyone know of pots with detents?
>
> John Speth
> mailto:johns at molectron.com
>




From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Sat Mar  2 01:31:37 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:31:37 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
Message-ID: <200203020031.g220VbI11221@yakko.hotkey.net.au>

Pots with detents do exist, usually log taper, for use in car radios. The
local hobby shop chain www.dse.com.au used to sell them, though I think its
a discontinued line.

Ken
 
>> i'd appreciate hearing about other kinds of switches people use for 
>> multi-pole operations (4+ poles). i was thinking of a 
>> pushbutton array like 
>> on a blender, but cannot seem to find these in electronic 
>> (vs. mechanical) 
>
>This question comes up in my brain often.  Seems to me that it's much
>cheaper today to implement an electronic selector circuit with a pot and an
>MCU with an ADC input.  You get the added bonus of the smarts of an MCU.  
>
>If only there were pots available with a series of equally spaced detents to
>give the feeling of a selector switch, we'd have the problem solved.  Anyone
>know of pots with detents?
>
>John Speth
>mailto:johns at molectron.com 
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
><META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
><TITLE>RE: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?</TITLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; i'd appreciate hearing about other kinds of switches
people use for </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; multi-pole operations (4+ poles). i was thinking of a
</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; pushbutton array like </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; on a blender, but cannot seem to find these in
electronic </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; (vs. mechanical) </FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>This question comes up in my brain often.&nbsp; Seems to me
that it's much cheaper today to implement an electronic selector circuit
with a pot and an MCU with an ADC input.&nbsp; You get the added bonus of
the smarts of an MCU.&nbsp; </FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>If only there were pots available with a series of equally
spaced detents to give the feeling of a selector switch, we'd have the
problem solved.&nbsp; Anyone know of pots with detents?</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>John Speth</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2><A
HREF="mailto:johns at molectron.com">mailto:johns at molectron.com</A> </FONT>
></P>
>
></BODY>
></HTML>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Sat Mar  2 01:46:13 2002
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (GothGeek Sysadmin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:46:13 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
In-Reply-To: <20020302.012205.104033317.cfmd@swipnet.se>; from cfmd@swipnet.se on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 01:22:05AM +0100
References: <120.c2341a6.29b13204@aol.com> <20020302.012205.104033317.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <20020301164612.J17164@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 01:22:05AM +0100, Magnus Danielson wrote:
> Magnus - who is stupid enougth to think there is a serious side to
> this thread

If out of a week+ long thread that gets a little out of hand One good idea
comes out for a new possibly more natural controller, its time/space/bandwidth
well spent.

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From blacet at blacet.com  Sat Mar  2 01:49:49 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:49:49 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
References: <4.2.0.58.20020301142834.00c9c330@pop.mindspring.com> <3C801BBF.2080302@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <3C8021AD.2E02A19C@blacet.com>

Pot to LM3915 bar graph IC controlling analog switch.

This technique is used for the Blacet EG1 VC Range function.

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sat Mar  2 01:54:42 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:54:42 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <120.c2341a6.29b13204@aol.com> <20020302.012205.104033317.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <008501c1c184$d78bed00$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Magnus,

The thread started out serious then went down hill from there. But, silly
sometimes leads to exciting new things.

Take Care,
John

----- Original Message -----
From: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>
To: <CHoaglin at aol.com>
Cc: <dhughes at globalnet.co.uk>; <xyzzy at sysabend.org>;
<john.l.marshall at gte.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch


> From: CHoaglin at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch
> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:35:32 EST
>
> > In a message dated 3/1/02 4:12:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > dhughes at globalnet.co.uk writes:
> >
> >
> > > I've found shouting at the little beggars sometimes works - especially
when
> > > they
> > > won't do what I want them to do!
> >
> > Or screaming about how "I've got a screwdriver, and I'm not afraid to
use
> > it!!!"
> > That works on computers sometimes at least..
>
> That's scary man...
>
> Also, this means this thread have moved from a low level to scary
movies...
>
> Shouts and threats... hmm... still doesn't make a good don't touch
> control.
>
> The odd fellow Ralph Lundsten (local old scool out of the woods kind
> of fella) has a camera/TV-monitor setup which allows him to play his
> synthesizers without touching anything (except a few air molecules,
> but it is kind of hard to avoid doing that without boiling away).
>
> I think he has had this setup since the 70thies or something, so it
> isn't all that advanced.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus - who is stupid enougth to think there is a serious side to
> this thread



From matti at devo.com  Sat Mar  2 03:16:02 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:16:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
In-Reply-To: <20020301151641.IXEG12982.out008.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203012102120.29989-100000@whipit.devo.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> An extension of this idea might be to us a vial filled
> with dyed water.  A photoresistor could then receive
> light passed thru the vial.  Then tipping the vial
> would cause the resistance to change.
*snip*

Gets me thinking. Difraction Patterns. Pass some light, maybe from several
sources at different space coordinates of different colors, through your
favorite media. Anybody know an x-ray crystalographer? (I think that's the
word...). Create a scanning matrix with LDRs. Lots of polyphony would be
needed. Which further gets me thinking about the jewel-net doctrine of
indra. pears2.lib.ohio-state.edu/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/david.htm . There is of
course a problem in applying recursion to the definition of the process of
beholding.

enjoy


-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sat Mar  2 03:28:24 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:28:24 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <11e.ca8481c.29b192c8@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/1/02 7:18:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, cfmd at swipnet.se 
writes:


> 
> The odd fellow Ralph Lundsten (local old scool out of the woods kind
> of fella) has a camera/TV-monitor setup which allows him to play his
> synthesizers without touching anything (except a few air molecules,
> but it is kind of hard to avoid doing that without boiling away).
> 
> I think he has had this setup since the 70thies or something, so it
> 

The modern equivalent of this would probably be to use a USB webcam connected 
to a PC..I know there are programs which watch for movement in the field of 
view of the camera and control things based on it..or use it as a motion 
sensor to trigger an alarm.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020301/0267aec7/attachment.htm>

From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sat Mar  2 03:37:48 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:37:48 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <149.a5c0346.29b194fc@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/1/02 7:23:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
john.l.marshall at gte.net writes:


> > Hello, All,
> >
> > Actually, I think a mercury switch type controller could have some very
> interesting
> > real possibilites. If you set up a series of switches each activating at a
> slightly
> > higher angle, and then wired them to a standard resistor divider, it could
> play
> > different notes based on angle. I think that I may have enough mercury
> switches
> >

I could envision putting these around a shaft attached to a steering wheel or 
similar..though it might be a better idea to have the turning of the wheel 
tilt an incline plane by raising and lowering something, thus a more gradual 
control.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020301/5e556c96/attachment.htm>

From tpaddock at seanet.com  Sat Mar  2 04:48:59 2002
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:48:59 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <e.1aeb928b.29afe9df@aol.com> <003101c1c098$7f0ffa00$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <3C7EFC69.91373D10@ix.netcom.com> <000b01c1c0da$8da83860$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <00d401c1c19d$3468bc70$0000a398@yourjjezkx0elp>

Another option for a tilt sensor is an accelerometer. 
Analog Devices makes a 2 axis +/-2g part. The 
outputs are PWM, tilt would change the duty cycle. 
The part number is something like ADXL202.

Toby Paddock




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Mar  2 06:35:14 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:35:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <120.c2341a6.29b13204@aol.com> <20020302.012205.104033317.cfmd@swipnet.se> <008501c1c184$d78bed00$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <3C806491.54A378DF@prodigy.net>

Yeah... my cross-town rival (engineer at the next desk) has been laughing
at all this too... He suggests a hot-wire anemometer sensing breath velocity...

Don't try that on the other end... you might get ignition  ;^)

H^) harry

John L Marshall wrote:

> Magnus,
>
> The thread started out serious then went down hill from there. But, silly
> sometimes leads to exciting new things.
>
> Take Care,
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>
> To: <CHoaglin at aol.com>
> Cc: <dhughes at globalnet.co.uk>; <xyzzy at sysabend.org>;
> <john.l.marshall at gte.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch
>
> > From: CHoaglin at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't Touch
> > Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:35:32 EST
> >
> > > In a message dated 3/1/02 4:12:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > dhughes at globalnet.co.uk writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I've found shouting at the little beggars sometimes works - especially
> when
> > > > they
> > > > won't do what I want them to do!
> > >
> > > Or screaming about how "I've got a screwdriver, and I'm not afraid to
> use
> > > it!!!"
> > > That works on computers sometimes at least..
> >
> > That's scary man...
> >
> > Also, this means this thread have moved from a low level to scary
> movies...
> >
> > Shouts and threats... hmm... still doesn't make a good don't touch
> > control.
> >
> > The odd fellow Ralph Lundsten (local old scool out of the woods kind
> > of fella) has a camera/TV-monitor setup which allows him to play his
> > synthesizers without touching anything (except a few air molecules,
> > but it is kind of hard to avoid doing that without boiling away).
> >
> > I think he has had this setup since the 70thies or something, so it
> > isn't all that advanced.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Magnus - who is stupid enougth to think there is a serious side to
> > this thread

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sat Mar  2 07:38:46 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:38:46 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <149.a5c0a6e.29b1cd76@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/1/02 10:51:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
tpaddock at seanet.com writes:


> Another option for a tilt sensor is an accelerometer. 
> Analog Devices makes a 2 axis +/-2g part. The 
> outputs are PWM, tilt would change the duty cycle. 
> 

I used to have a number of accelerometers made by Endevco (read: dozens of 
them), but I sold them all off since they were worth $$ and I didn't have 
charge amps. I recall reading about accellerometer-on-a-chip devices though, 
is the AD part one of those?

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020302/55a19947/attachment.htm>

From music.maker at gte.net  Sat Mar  2 07:05:21 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:05:21
Subject: [sdiy] Is there a ROBERT SHADE on the list?
Message-ID: <20020302150537.NOUQ22012.out020.verizon.net@mail.lan>

ROBERT SHADE <rshade at worldnet.att.net>

Please email me privately.

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From music.maker at gte.net  Sat Mar  2 07:41:26 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:41:26
Subject: [sdiy] Speaking of LM3900
Message-ID: <20020302154138.ZMSY23533.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan>

I have some, never used them, and I'll be gol-durned if
I can say I know what they're good for and what they're
not. 

Anyone care to give a short disertation on "dos and don'ts",
what are they the best thing for and what are they the
worst thing for ?

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From xinclxsynth-diy at mkv.mh.se  Sat Mar  2 11:58:55 2002
From: xinclxsynth-diy at mkv.mh.se (Synth-DIY)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:58:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
Message-ID: <fc.000f492400652908000f492400652908.65292c@mkv.mh.se>

Hi!

What would be a good replacement of a LM3900, which seems less than easy to get
were I am?
Any quadrule opamp like a TL074?

I mean to use it in a slightly modified version of  "Nicholas Collins envelope
follower" from EN. (I only have a gif of the schematic so I don't know what EN
issue that would be.)

...I of course open to suggestiosn of a env.follower with adjustable Attack/Decay
and gate out.


thanks!

//Per Mattsson



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat Mar  2 12:14:07 2002
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (pfperry at melbpc.org.au)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:14:07 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
Message-ID: <200203021114.g22BE7421990@quoll.melbpc.org.au>

"Synth-DIY" <xinclxsynth-diy at mkv.mh.se> wrote:
> What would be a good replacement of a LM3900, which seems less than easy to get were I am?
> Any quadrule opamp like a TL074?
.no, the LM3900 is a completely different type, it is a Norton (or 'current differencing') amplifier.
The industrila rated version LM2900 is easier to get, sometimes.
> 
paul perry (Frostwave analog fx) Melbourne Australia
-- 
Message sent by Webmail from melbpc.org.au


From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar  2 14:28:40 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:28:40 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] alternative to rotary switches ?
References: <4.2.0.58.20020301142834.00c9c330@pop.mindspring.com> <3C801BBF.2080302@addcom.de> <3C8021AD.2E02A19C@blacet.com>
Message-ID: <3C80D388.4020509@addcom.de>

right. good idea. of course regular opamps as comparators are just 
common chips though.



John Blacet wrote:

>Pot to LM3915 bar graph IC controlling analog switch.
>
>This technique is used for the Blacet EG1 VC Range function.
>
>Regards,
>___________________
>John Blacet
>Blacet Research
>http://www.blacet.com
>
>
>




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar  2 14:34:26 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:34:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
References: <fc.000f492400652908000f492400652908.65292c@mkv.mh.se>
Message-ID: <3C80D4E2.9030307@addcom.de>

You can't really replace a 3900 with a regular opamp. It is a morton 
amplifier, that is something different. They shouldn't be THAT hard to find.

you could try the Buchla 230. It has adjustable decay and ac/dc 
coupling. This ac/dc control is suposed to change the "feel" of the 
response. ac only triggering on real peaks in a dense mix.  You could 
probably add an attack control just like in a attack/release envelope by 
puttin the diode the other way and adding a control.

mark

Synth-DIY wrote:

>Hi!
>
>What would be a good replacement of a LM3900, which seems less than easy to get
>were I am?
>Any quadrule opamp like a TL074?
>
>I mean to use it in a slightly modified version of  "Nicholas Collins envelope
>follower" from EN. (I only have a gif of the schematic so I don't know what EN
>issue that would be.)
>
>...I of course open to suggestiosn of a env.follower with adjustable Attack/Decay
>and gate out.
>
>
>thanks!
>
>//Per Mattsson
>
>




From LBC40X at aol.com  Sat Mar  2 14:49:41 2002
From: LBC40X at aol.com (LBC40X at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:49:41 EST
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Message-ID: <cf.1353907f.29b23275@aol.com>

in regards to my mercury tilt switch idea...instead of mounting them to be 
controlled by a steering wheel (chris hoaglin's thoughts)...why not attach 
them to a glove, jacket, pants.....clothing in general. so any slight 
movement would change the sound. i dont think thats involves touching the 
synth.


From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar  2 15:43:52 2002
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:43:52 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
References: <fc.000f492400652908000f492400652908.65292c@mkv.mh.se>
Message-ID: <001201c1c1f8$acaf3be0$3909883e@default>

> What would be a good replacement of a LM3900, which seems less than easy
to get
> were I am?

You could try the LM2900, or the MC3301 or MC3302.

> Any quadruple opamp like a TL074?

The LM3900 (and the ones I've lsited above) are current difference
opamps.  You can't just substitute any "normal" opamp.  (Actually
you can, but then it won't work).



Steve Ridley




From sysyphus at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar  2 16:05:57 2002
From: sysyphus at sympatico.ca (David Reichert)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:05:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone in T.O.?
In-Reply-To: <11e.ca8481c.29b192c8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1c1fb$c5a547e0$ad26e440@Sysyphus>

I've been meaning to ask this for a while, is there anyone else on this
list from the Toronto / Southern Ontario area? I'm looking for good
places to shop, i.e. electronics supply shops, surplus etc.
 
Dave
 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020302/ca66bc36/attachment.htm>

From tpaddock at seanet.com  Sat Mar  2 16:18:07 2002
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:18:07 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <149.a5c0a6e.29b1cd76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005301c1c1fd$7a8c3460$0000a398@yourjjezkx0elp>

tpaddock at seanet.com writes: 
>>Another option for a tilt sensor is an accelerometer. 
>>Analog Devices makes a 2 axis +/-2g part. The 
>>outputs are PWM, tilt would change the duty cycle. 
>>The part number is something like ADXL202.

CHoaglin at aol.com wrote:
>I used to have a number of accelerometers made by 
>Endevco (read: dozens of them), but I sold them all off 
>since they were worth $$ and I didn't have charge amps. 
>I recall reading about accellerometer-on-a-chip devices 
>though, is the AD part one of those? 
>-Chris 

Yep, they are MEMS (Micro Electronic Machined Sensors 
or Micro Etched... or Machined something something 
Sensors... something). I don't know what package free samples 
are available in now. Mine are surface mount. They are probably 
just bare molicules that no human can solder to now.

One thing about them is they work down to DC. Accelerometers 
that use charge amps are AC, so they won't work for tilt. 

Toby Paddock




From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  2 18:19:45 2002
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:19:45 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
In-Reply-To: <001201c1c1f8$acaf3be0$3909883e@default>
References: <fc.000f492400652908000f492400652908.65292c@mkv.mh.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302100624.00a74658@mail.earthlink.net>

An upgraded Norton amplifier is the LM359. It is much faster than the 3900, 
which it is intended to replace. DigiKey has them. The downside is that 
they are duals rather than quads, and they are a bit pricey. Has anyone 
tried these for DIY?

   Ian


At 07:43 AM 3/2/2002, Steve Ridley wrote:
> > What would be a good replacement of a LM3900, which seems less than easy
>to get
> > were I am?
>
>You could try the LM2900, or the MC3301 or MC3302.



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Mar  2 18:24:48 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:24:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Speaking of LM3900
References: <20020302154138.ZMSY23533.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <3C810ADF.AE74AEDE@prodigy.net>

If you play with Spice at all (like EWB)... they are current controlled
voltage sources.  If I had known that years ago (and understood it -
teehee)
I'd have used them a lot.

If your signals are best expressed in terms of current they are great.
As audio
op-amps they suck IMHO. A really good use is in an ARP filter
(schematics at
Joachim Verghese's site "ArpTech")  and another is in the Serge
waveshaper (or
clones thereof - like the EFM Wav1b)

H^) harry

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> I have some, never used them, and I'll be gol-durned if
> I can say I know what they're good for and what they're
> not.
>
> Anyone care to give a short disertation on "dos and don'ts",
> what are they the best thing for and what are they the
> worst thing for ?
>
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From xinclxsynth-diy at mkv.mh.se  Sat Mar  2 19:21:55 2002
From: xinclxsynth-diy at mkv.mh.se (Synth-DIY)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:21:55 +0100
Subject: Re(2): [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
Message-ID: <fc.000f492400652d23000f492400652d23.652d26@mkv.mh.se>

ijfritz at earthlink.net skriver:
>An upgraded Norton amplifier is the LM359. It is much faster than the 3900, 
>which it is intended to replace. DigiKey has them. 

Thank you (and everyone else). I found that one on Farnell. 
After some more search there, they lists RC4136 as a replacement for the 3900.

Thanks all for the help!

Per Mattsson



From bahi0387 at terra.com.br  Sat Mar  2 19:42:24 2002
From: bahi0387 at terra.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:42:24 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
References: <fc.000f492400652d23000f492400652d23.652d26@mkv.mh.se>
Message-ID: <3C811D10.DEF17FAE@terra.com.br>

Hi all,

Per Mattsson wrote:
> 
> Thank you (and everyone else). I found that one on Farnell.
> After some more search there, they lists RC4136 as a replacement
> for the 3900.


??  Never!!  RC4136 (still exists?) is a quad op-amp. Strange pinout,
but a mere op-amp.

Cheers,
Edu Silva (back on list...)


From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar  2 19:58:17 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:58:17 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
References: <fc.000f492400652908000f492400652908.65292c@mkv.mh.se> <001201c1c1f8$acaf3be0$3909883e@default>
Message-ID: <3C8120C9.1020109@addcom.de>



Steve Ridley wrote:

>
>The LM3900 (and the ones I've lsited above) are current difference
>opamps.  You can't just substitute any "normal" opamp.  (Actually
>you can, but then it won't work).
>
Ha. That's true about everything isn't it? ;)




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar  2 20:00:34 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:00:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Speaking of LM3900
References: <20020302154138.ZMSY23533.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <3C812152.6030308@addcom.de>

Serge certainly seemed to like them. Use them for his circuits. The 
tripple waveshaper comes to mind. They were used a bit in the Buchla 208 
as well. I don't know why. I guess you can make a comparator with fewer 
resistors than with a regular op amp. just one to set the threshold.

mark

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>I have some, never used them, and I'll be gol-durned if
>I can say I know what they're good for and what they're
>not. 
>
>Anyone care to give a short disertation on "dos and don'ts",
>what are they the best thing for and what are they the
>worst thing for ?
>
>=========================================================  
>- Government: The other religion.
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
>-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>
>
>




From jloffink at austin.rr.com  Sat Mar  2 20:06:49 2002
From: jloffink at austin.rr.com (John Loffink)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:06:49 -0600
Subject: Re(2): [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
In-Reply-To: <fc.000f492400652d23000f492400652d23.652d26@mkv.mh.se>
Message-ID: <000301c1c21d$6a290d80$220110ac@homeportal.2wire.net>

Note that some of these equivalents have a more limited supply voltage
range, 5-18V, not 4-32V like the LM3900s.   Also, I bought some RCA
3401s from a discount supplier (All Electronics) and the matching of the
current mirror appears to exceed the specification, causing some
circuits to fail unless you tweak them.  One clue about these parts was
that RCA hasn't badged ICs in 10 or 15 years, having gone through a
series of buyouts by GE, Harris and Intersil.

John Loffink
jloffink at austin.rr.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:owner-synth-
> diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Synth-DIY
> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 12:22 PM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re(2): [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
> 
> ijfritz at earthlink.net skriver:
> >An upgraded Norton amplifier is the LM359. It is much faster than the
> 3900,
> >which it is intended to replace. DigiKey has them.
> 
> Thank you (and everyone else). I found that one on Farnell.
> After some more search there, they lists RC4136 as a replacement for
the
> 3900.
> 
> Thanks all for the help!
> 
> Per Mattsson



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar  2 20:11:44 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:11:44 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
In-Reply-To: <3C8120C9.1020109@addcom.de>
References: <fc.000f492400652908000f492400652908.65292c@mkv.mh.se>
	<001201c1c1f8$acaf3be0$3909883e@default>
	<3C8120C9.1020109@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <20020302.201144.59650391.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: mark verbos <a0284520 at addcom.de>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:58:17 +0100

> 
> 
> Steve Ridley wrote:
> 
> >
> >The LM3900 (and the ones I've lsited above) are current difference
> >opamps.  You can't just substitute any "normal" opamp.  (Actually
> >you can, but then it won't work).
> >
> Ha. That's true about everything isn't it? ;)

Indeed.... but to be even more correct it should say ", but then it
won't work anything near as you migth expect from the original
design".

Ah well...

Cheers,
Magnus


From matti at devo.com  Sat Mar  2 20:24:40 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:24:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
In-Reply-To: <cf.1353907f.29b23275@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203021423520.4160-100000@whipit.devo.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 LBC40X at aol.com wrote:

> in regards to my mercury tilt switch idea...instead of mounting them to be
*snip*

Someone's already mentioned an EPA superfund site. Just how easy is it to
break these things?


enjoy


-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Sat Mar  2 20:34:13 2002
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:34:13 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
Message-ID: <87.185d0606.29b28335@aol.com>

in the mouser search engine they list the NTE 992, and SK3688,

is this a good replacement?

Eduardo


From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Sat Mar  2 20:44:55 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:44:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Don't touch
Message-ID: <3C812BB7.2F03A4E7@globalnet.co.uk>

Hello,

Slight related (and, for once, fairly serious too).

I remember reading that one of the gents on the Intelligentsia mailing list
built himself a drum suit which he could wear on stage and, by tapping various
parts of his anatomy, generate MIDI and trigger signals for driving off-stage
modules and keyboards. They used it for a big gig in Japan but I don't know if
they ever had any commercial interest in the kit.

Just a couple o' cents worth...

Regards
   David
-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk


From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Mar  2 21:02:02 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:02:02 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
References: <fc.000f492400652d23000f492400652d23.652d26@mkv.mh.se>
Message-ID: <3C812FBA.FAC9349A@silcom.com>

    The RC4136 is not a Norton (transresistance) amplifier.  It is a standard
voltage mode opamp.


    Speaking of LM3900's, I have always wanted to try one of the filters that uses
a pair of transistors (connected differentially) with a current control to control
the cutoff frequency (I think this is refered to as the Arp Filter).  Just how
well (both electronically ad soundwise) does this really work?

Synth-DIY wrote:

> ijfritz at earthlink.net skriver:
> >An upgraded Norton amplifier is the LM359. It is much faster than the 3900,
> >which it is intended to replace. DigiKey has them.
>
> Thank you (and everyone else). I found that one on Farnell.
> After some more search there, they lists RC4136 as a replacement for the 3900.
>
> Thanks all for the help!
>
> Per Mattsson

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From jamos at technotoys.com  Sat Mar  2 21:29:53 2002
From: jamos at technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:29:53 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] FS: Sequential Max (CEM 3394s) and Roland CSQ-100 for Parts 
Message-ID: <200203021229530480.06582C8E@161.58.178.202>

OK, so this morning I go to a garage sale - thought it was a band breakup,
but turned out to be an an old keyboard player unloading! He had a fair
amount of stuff, including a an OB TVS  for $1800 - but nothing outrageous.


I did pick up a dead Sequential Max that I thought might be useful to
someone for parts. It powers up, but the LEDs to not respond to button
presses, and it makes no sound. The CEMs in it might be good, or they might
not. Best offer.

Also picked up a Roland CSQ-100 that does not work; I haven't messed with
it to see how dead it is. If you're interested in parts, let me know.


Jim Johnson 
Metaphoric Software
-------------------
Makers of Techno Toys
Software for Electronic Music
http://www.technotoys.com
info at technotoys.com




From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Sat Mar  2 21:37:24 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:37:24 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Message-ID: <3c813804.1c35.0@telusplanet.net>

>On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 LBC40X at aol.com wrote:
>
>> in regards to my mercury tilt switch idea...instead of mounting them to be

>*snip*
>
>Someone's already mentioned an EPA superfund site. Just how easy is it to
>break these things?
>
The ones that I have are eclosed in glass like a small light bulb, but the glass
seems pretty thick. Never broken one though, but correctly mounted in a  robust
case should be sufficient to protect them. They are commonly used in old style
furnace thermostats, BTW.

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Sat Mar  2 21:37:33 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:37:33 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Message-ID: <3c81380d.1c3d.0@telusplanet.net>

>On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 LBC40X at aol.com wrote:
>
>> in regards to my mercury tilt switch idea...instead of mounting them to be

>*snip*
>
>Someone's already mentioned an EPA superfund site. Just how easy is it to
>break these things?
>
The ones that I have are eclosed in glass like a small light bulb, but the glass
seems pretty thick. Never broken one though, but correctly mounted in a  robust
case should be sufficient to protect them. They are commonly used in old style
furnace thermostats, BTW.

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From bahi0387 at terra.com.br  Sat Mar  2 21:41:27 2002
From: bahi0387 at terra.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:41:27 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Speaking of LM3900
References: <20020302154138.ZMSY23533.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan> <3C812152.6030308@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <3C8138F7.4934E119@terra.com.br>

Hi,

Get the app note. One of the best I?ve seen.

http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-72.pdf

(the 2900 and 3301 are discontinued, but the LM359 is still on the road)

Edu Silva


Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> 
> Anyone care to give a short disertation on "dos and don'ts",
> what are they the best thing for and what are they the
> worst thing for ?


From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Sat Mar  2 21:43:46 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:43:46 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Message-ID: <3c813982.20fa.0@telusplanet.net>

>On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 LBC40X at aol.com wrote:
>
>> in regards to my mercury tilt switch idea...instead of mounting them to be

>*snip*
>
>Someone's already mentioned an EPA superfund site. Just how easy is it to
>break these things?
>

The ones that I have are enclosed in glass like a small light bulb, but the
glass seems pretty thick. Never broken one though, but correctly mounted in
a robust case should be sufficient to protect them. They are commonly used in
old style furnace thermostats, BTW. 

Take care, Doug 

______________________ 
The Electronic Peasant 

www.electronicpeasant.com 


From bahi0387 at terra.com.br  Sat Mar  2 22:25:59 2002
From: bahi0387 at terra.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:25:59 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
References: <3c813982.20fa.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <3C814367.1396C1DD@terra.com.br>


And how about Pierre Henry?s brainwaves experiments?

http://www.furious.com/perfect/pierrehenry.html

(I knew a better site, but I can't find it anymore. There was a picture
of him, with wires coming out from his head and pluged into a synth!)

Edu Silva


From andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu  Sun Mar  3 00:04:31 2002
From: andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu (David Anderson)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:04:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone in T.O.?
In-Reply-To: <000601c1c1fb$c5a547e0$ad26e440@Sysyphus>
References: <000601c1c1fb$c5a547e0$ad26e440@Sysyphus>
Message-ID: <1012706.1015092271@david>

I'm not in Toronto, but I have been to Active Electronics (or something 
like that) on Spadina...

--On Saturday, March 02, 2002 10:05 AM -0500 David Reichert 
<sysyphus at sympatico.ca> wrote:

>
>
> I've been meaning to ask this for a while, is there anyone else on this
> list from the Toronto / Southern Ontario area? I'm looking for good
> places to shop, i.e. electronics supply shops, surplus etc.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>




From moog at sick.cl  Sun Mar  3 00:31:39 2002
From: moog at sick.cl (criss m)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:31:39 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] req : midi guitar info 
Message-ID: <01c1c242$66e50640$LocalHost@wefwf>

hi guys 

im back after some nice vacation :) and i was wondering if somene can provide me some links or info about midi guitars (i dont know much about it) 
but 
i dont know if there are units that translate a analogic signal from the guitar (electric) and translate into midi mensages??????

or if there other sort of midi gitars with switchs or sensors in the bridge?

i just build a  midi keyboard and noticed that ima keyboard fool.... its hard for me , i think i'll buy piano for dummies....

please help 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020302/9868f017/attachment.htm>

From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sun Mar  3 00:34:10 2002
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:34:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
In-Reply-To: <3C812FBA.FAC9349A@silcom.com>
References: <fc.000f492400652d23000f492400652d23.652d26@mkv.mh.se>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020303003410.00daf3d0@mailin.uni-bonn.de>

At 12:02 02.03.02 -0800, you wrote:
>    Speaking of LM3900's, I have always wanted to try one of the filters
that uses
>a pair of transistors (connected differentially) with a current control to
control
>the cutoff frequency (I think this is refered to as the Arp Filter).  Just
how
>well (both electronically ad soundwise) does this really work?

I've breadboarded such a filter once, I made a SVF. This makes a nice
little filter out 
of a couple of cheap parts, if you go with standard transistors. Though it
didn't impress 
me enough to make a permanent circuit out of it. Maybe I should try the
four pole. 
Its interesting to note that the diff-pair connected to the LM3900 input
mirror 
is a simple OTA structure. Infact the same as used in the SSM2040. Though
the integrator 
is very different. 

Cheers,
 Ren?



-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From studio271 at mail.ev1.net  Sun Mar  3 01:08:03 2002
From: studio271 at mail.ev1.net (studio271)
Date: Sat,  2 Mar 2002 18:08:03 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Message-ID: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>

This got me to thinking; for those of you who have never seen or 
heard of a mercury spill (you are lucky, because I
 rarely think for others)...

When I first thought about what happens when mercury hits the 
ground, I thought in terms of it being the same as a water spill; 
everything stays together, very little splatter. However, when 
mercury spills, it instantly breaks into thousands of little round 
pellets about .2mm in diameter. Whats worse is that they then 
proceed to cover the entire area of the surface you happened to 
drop the stuff on. Very big problem. That's definitely why those 
switches are encased in VERY thick glass (plastic won't offer good 
leak protection for the joints to the electrodes, I think).

Just thought I'd offer that little tidbit o' info.

-271

BTW - touching mercury itself will permenantly color that part of 
your skin brown. Not a fun "battle scar" to have...

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net
Reply-to: epeasant at telusplanet.net
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:43:46 GMT

>>On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 LBC40X at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> in regards to my mercury tilt switch idea...instead of 
mounting them to be
>
>>*snip*
>>
>>Someone's already mentioned an EPA superfund site. Just how easy 
is it to
>>break these things?
>>
>
>The ones that I have are enclosed in glass like a small light 
bulb, but the
>glass seems pretty thick. Never broken one though, but correctly 
mounted in
>a robust case should be sufficient to protect them. They are 
commonly used in
>old style furnace thermostats, BTW. 
>
>Take care, Doug 
>
>______________________ 
>The Electronic Peasant 
>
>www.electronicpeasant.com 
>
 

________________________________________________________________
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net


 
                   


From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sun Mar  3 02:00:01 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:00:01 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
References: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>
Message-ID: <000901c1c24e$c0086da0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: studio271 <studio271 at mail.ev1.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: re: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
<snip>
>
> BTW - touching mercury itself will permanently color that part of
> your skin brown. Not a fun "battle scar" to have...
>
As a kid, I played with mercury. Just a drop on a dime would make the whole
coin really shiny. It didn't change the color of my fingers.

I can't "remember" doing anything else with the mercury ;-)

Oh yeah. Now I remember. A mixture of mercury with nitric acid is great for
cleaning the room ;-))

John



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar  3 03:13:48 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:13:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
References: <fc.000f492400652908000f492400652908.65292c@mkv.mh.se>
		<001201c1c1f8$acaf3be0$3909883e@default>
		<3C8120C9.1020109@addcom.de> <20020302.201144.59650391.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3C8186DC.E5C08EE7@prodigy.net>

The big point here is "what did you want the opamp to do"...

The LM3900 has a very (like extremely) low input impedance.

Usually we select voltage input opamps to have a high impedance
input...

so for some circuits you 'might' sub another opamp... but if the designer

really understood the 3900... you probably can'r because the reasons for
that choice are almost incompatible with 'normal'  (not Norton ;^)
opamps.

H^) harry

Magnus Danielson wrote:

> From: mark verbos <a0284520 at addcom.de>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:58:17 +0100
>
> >
> >
> > Steve Ridley wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >The LM3900 (and the ones I've lsited above) are current difference
> > >opamps.  You can't just substitute any "normal" opamp.  (Actually
> > >you can, but then it won't work).
> > >
> > Ha. That's true about everything isn't it? ;)
>
> Indeed.... but to be even more correct it should say ", but then it
> won't work anything near as you migth expect from the original
> design".
>
> Ah well...
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sun Mar  3 03:38:41 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 03:38:41 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
In-Reply-To: <3C8186DC.E5C08EE7@prodigy.net>
References: <3C8120C9.1020109@addcom.de>
	<20020302.201144.59650391.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<3C8186DC.E5C08EE7@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20020303.033841.21933475.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:13:48 -0500

> The big point here is "what did you want the opamp to do"...
> 
> The LM3900 has a very (like extremely) low input impedance.
> 
> Usually we select voltage input opamps to have a high impedance
> input...
> 
> so for some circuits you 'might' sub another opamp... but if the designer
> 
> really understood the 3900... you probably can'r because the reasons for
> that choice are almost incompatible with 'normal'  (not Norton ;^)
> opamps.

This is indeed true, there are certain designs that *really* require
their specified op-amp. For instance, J?rgen reported that he found
and amplifier design where the uA741 was required, due to the way
things where setup and the input transistor-pair was effectively
disabled and replaced by a external and better pair.

This is a very good reason why I would like to see good datasheets
(and similar info which gives insight into the device and its
operations) even after end-of-life for a component. You can't
fully understand what an engineer thought of unless you have the same
information as what was around at the time of the design (preferably
more info naturally).

The more one gets into the habbit of crawling into a chip, the better
one can possibly be at making it do The Right Thing (TM) but it also
opens up the path for Oversmart Hacks which usually is not The Right
Thing (TM).

Cheers,
Magnus


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar  3 04:00:23 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:00:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
References: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>
Message-ID: <3C8191C7.4F9E9CCB@prodigy.net>

Lets not get too afeared....

Mercury is not easily assimilated into the human body through the skin
at all... and it is not very water soluable. If you clean it up well
forget the
superfund. If your dog or child likes to lick the floor.. that's
different.

Oxides of mercury are bad. Bur they do not form at normal human
temperatures
... think house fire...

Breathing the mercury oxides would be bad news. This is what killed a
lot of photographic pioneers.

We all (those maybe 45+ years old) played with liquid mercury as
kids....

didn't we ???

H^) harry

studio271 wrote:

> This got me to thinking; for those of you who have never seen or
> heard of a mercury spill (you are lucky, because I
>  rarely think for others)...
>
> When I first thought about what happens when mercury hits the
> ground, I thought in terms of it being the same as a water spill;
> everything stays together, very little splatter. However, when
> mercury spills, it instantly breaks into thousands of little round
> pellets about .2mm in diameter. Whats worse is that they then
> proceed to cover the entire area of the surface you happened to
> drop the stuff on. Very big problem. That's definitely why those
> switches are encased in VERY thick glass (plastic won't offer good
> leak protection for the joints to the electrodes, I think).
>
> Just thought I'd offer that little tidbit o' info.
>
> -271
>
> BTW - touching mercury itself will permenantly color that part of
> your skin brown. Not a fun "battle scar" to have...
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: epeasant at telusplanet.net
> Reply-to: epeasant at telusplanet.net
> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:43:46 GMT
>
> >>On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 LBC40X at aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> in regards to my mercury tilt switch idea...instead of
> mounting them to be
> >
> >>*snip*
> >>
> >>Someone's already mentioned an EPA superfund site. Just how easy
> is it to
> >>break these things?
> >>
> >
> >The ones that I have are enclosed in glass like a small light
> bulb, but the
> >glass seems pretty thick. Never broken one though, but correctly
> mounted in
> >a robust case should be sufficient to protect them. They are
> commonly used in
> >old style furnace thermostats, BTW.
> >
> >Take care, Doug
> >
> >______________________
> >The Electronic Peasant
> >
> >www.electronicpeasant.com
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
>
>
>

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar  3 04:09:55 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:09:55 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
References: <3C8120C9.1020109@addcom.de>
		<20020302.201144.59650391.cfmd@swipnet.se>
		<3C8186DC.E5C08EE7@prodigy.net> <20020303.033841.21933475.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3C819403.8B081178@prodigy.net>

Magnus Danielson wrote:

<snip>

> This is a very good reason why I would like to see good datasheets
> (and similar info which gives insight into the device and its
> operations) even after end-of-life for a component. You can't
> fully understand what an engineer thought of unless you have the same
> information as what was around at the time of the design (preferably
> more info naturally).

Which is why the OLD databooks are so important to keep. When the product
is introduced, it is fully supported (app notes, schematics, etc...) but later
edition
data books will have a picture and a price tag... Its become a jelly bean to
the
accountants who are weighing the data books for pennies....

The Internet is boon AND bane... manufacturers are yanking the old data sheets
down at an alarming rate. Once "I" drop the part... fvck those who may have
bought it from me in the past and might want to see the info again... so sad !

H^) harry   (who has LOTS and lots of old data books)



From matti at devo.com  Sun Mar  3 04:28:19 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:28:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
In-Reply-To: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203022225310.6021-100000@whipit.devo.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, studio271 wrote:

*snip*
>
> BTW - touching mercury itself will permenantly color that part of
> your skin brown. Not a fun "battle scar" to have...
*snip*

It will? I decided when I was 8 or so to play with a thermometer. And
naturally broke it. I seem to remember the mercury didn't want to tocuh me
at all. Hydropohbia, right? I dont have any brown stains on my fingers
now.


enjoy

-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sun Mar  3 04:58:50 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 04:58:50 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
In-Reply-To: <3C819403.8B081178@prodigy.net>
References: <3C8186DC.E5C08EE7@prodigy.net>
	<20020303.033841.21933475.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<3C819403.8B081178@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20020303.045850.35662578.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:09:55 -0500

> Magnus Danielson wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > This is a very good reason why I would like to see good datasheets
> > (and similar info which gives insight into the device and its
> > operations) even after end-of-life for a component. You can't
> > fully understand what an engineer thought of unless you have the same
> > information as what was around at the time of the design (preferably
> > more info naturally).
> 
> Which is why the OLD databooks are so important to keep. When the product
> is introduced, it is fully supported (app notes, schematics, etc...) but later
> edition
> data books will have a picture and a price tag... Its become a jelly bean to
> the
> accountants who are weighing the data books for pennies....
> 
> The Internet is boon AND bane... manufacturers are yanking the old data sheets
> down at an alarming rate. Once "I" drop the part... fvck those who may have
> bought it from me in the past and might want to see the info again... so sad !
> 
> H^) harry   (who has LOTS and lots of old data books)

Amen brother!

I guess having 4+ meter of old databooks and another 1 meter of old
catalogs and also old instrument catalogs shows my preference. I would
get more if I only had the space. Thanks to those databooks I can save
myself many many times. Sadly enougth I do not have all the databooks
that where ever published... but maybe that also allows me to actually
live in this house...

Cheers,
Magnus - compact living in a large house


From moog at sick.cl  Sun Mar  3 05:07:05 2002
From: moog at sick.cl (criss m)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:07:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] tda1717p  replacement
Message-ID: <01c1c268$e171bf40$LocalHost@wefwf>

does someone knows a replacement for this philips amplifier Ic ??
would another op am work as well????


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020302/159930d0/attachment.htm>

From tpaddock at seanet.com  Sun Mar  3 05:25:39 2002
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (Toby Paddock)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:25:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
References: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net> <3C8191C7.4F9E9CCB@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <002101c1c26b$7e302c20$0000a398@yourjjezkx0elp>

Yeah man. No worse than scrapin' bits off a radium clock dial.
Toby Paddock
 
> We all (those maybe 45+ years old) played with liquid mercury as
> kids....
> didn't we ???
> H^) harry






From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sun Mar  3 05:43:02 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 05:43:02 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
In-Reply-To: <3C8191C7.4F9E9CCB@prodigy.net>
References: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>
	<3C8191C7.4F9E9CCB@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20020303.054302.38713390.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:00:23 -0500

> Lets not get too afeared....
> 
> Mercury is not easily assimilated into the human body through the skin
> at all... and it is not very water soluable. If you clean it up well
> forget the
> superfund. If your dog or child likes to lick the floor.. that's
> different.
> 
> Oxides of mercury are bad. Bur they do not form at normal human
> temperatures
> ... think house fire...
> 
> Breathing the mercury oxides would be bad news. This is what killed a
> lot of photographic pioneers.
> 
> We all (those maybe 45+ years old) played with liquid mercury as
> kids....
> 
> didn't we ???

Ah well... these where the days when boys where boys, toys where toys
and blowing up the house actually had a meaning to it. You dreamt of
being a rocket scientist and invented new novel ways to make atom
bombs.

Today kids sit in dark rooms with extremely fast computers and try to
figure out how to slash the most bodies in the most horrific way in
the latest 3D graphic and sound version of Quake Ultra-violence. Few
have actually seen a real chain-saw, even less have actually used one.

Meanwhile we are happy having just a tenth of the computer-power to do
an analog simulation on it... ah well... I'm getting old, I'm getting
31... better just bugger off and stop wasting space...

(No, not *really* depressed...)

Cheers,
Magnus


From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sun Mar  3 06:14:04 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 00:14:04 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
Message-ID: <7f.224a6501.29b30b1c@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/2/02 10:20:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
tpaddock at seanet.com writes:


> Yep, they are MEMS (Micro Electronic Machined Sensors 
> or Micro Etched... or Machined something something 
> 
That would be Micro Electronic Mechanical Systems, I believe.

Sensors... something). I don't know what package free samples 

> are available in now. Mine are surface mount. They are probably 
> just bare molicules that no human can solder to now.
> 
> One thing about them is they work down to DC. Accelerometers 
> that use charge amps are AC, so they won't work for tilt. 
> 

I think I have a voltage-mode one somewhere...might drag it out and mess with 
it if I get a chance.

-Chris

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020303/685ecb8d/attachment.htm>

From moog at sick.cl  Sun Mar  3 08:46:17 2002
From: moog at sick.cl (criss m)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 00:46:17 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] theremin discucion
Message-ID: <01c1c287$80b05da0$LocalHost@wefwf>

hi all..
there are some questions ive always had about theremins. and i would like to share with you :)

The tube theremin are famous for been more sensitive that the trancistoriced ones ,rigth, what about the sound? is the tube theremin special? 

should we let this instrument for clara rockmore the crazy wife of mr theremin???

im sure that the sound of theremin , can be ezly reproduce from a synth... rigth , so why is it so special?
i loooked at the draws of mr moog, fdor the etherwave and you can see the vco vca etc and some of the modules you'll see in a basic  analog synth.... so.....

anyway i realy love the theremin , its a great instrument....

:)


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020303/c29474f2/attachment.htm>

From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun Mar  3 11:21:46 2002
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:21:46 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020303102146.012188c0@popa.melbpc.org.au>


>> Mercury is not easily assimilated into the human body through the skin
>> at all... and it is not very water soluable. If you clean it up well
>> forget the
>> superfund. If your dog or child likes to lick the floor.. that's
>> different.
....Mercury (metallic) used to be used as a laxitive!(must have felt kinda
funny going through). This was back in 1700 or so.
>> 

>> Breathing the mercury oxides would be bad news. This is what killed a
>> lot of photographic pioneers.
....The mercury that killed photographic pioneers was the mercury vapour
used to develop degaurotypes.
>> 
>> We all (those maybe 45+ years old) played with liquid mercury as kids
....yeah, I remember rubbing it onto aluminum, where it forms an alloy with
the surface & the aluminum reacts with oxygen to give feathery aluminum oxide.

All this is well OT of course.
There is a very civilised group, AHOT, specifically designed for people on
AH who wnat to talk OT to AH members.
I am sure SDIY members would be welcome (hint hint).

paul perry melbourne australia



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun Mar  3 12:42:07 2002
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:42:07 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020303114207.0120d514@popa.melbpc.org.au>

The LM3900 is available from Unicorn Electronics (USA) at $2.95 for 3.
They don't have a min order AFAIK so, even from Europe, the best thng might
be to get them from there. I'm in Australia, and most of my chips come from USA.
They also have the LED bar driver chips, which will dry up soon I bet!

paul perry Melb Aust (whose only contact with the Grand Pricks here in
Melbourne today was with the drunken yahoos streaming away from it afterwards)



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  3 18:06:26 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:06:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh generators
Message-ID: <20020303170626.91431.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Y'all,

I've been sidelined from the list for quite awhile.
When I left I was in dialog with a few of you about
walsh generators using Xilinx parts. Those people need
to contact me off the list.

Its good to be back.

--TR

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com


From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Sun Mar  3 18:58:42 2002
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:58:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203021423520.4160-100000@whipit.devo.com>
References: <cf.1353907f.29b23275@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020303125842.007c1a90@hoohahrecords.com>

At 02:24 PM 3/2/02 -0500, matti wrote:
>On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 LBC40X at aol.com wrote:
>
>> in regards to my mercury tilt switch idea...instead of mounting them to be
>*snip*
>
>Someone's already mentioned an EPA superfund site. Just how easy is it to
>break these things?


Depends on what you buy... Like everything there ae expensive ones and
cheap ones.  Cheaper ones will have much thinner glass.

Oh, just figured I'd add this:  Make friends with someone in the
heating/cooling business.  I used to do that for a living and most
thermostats have a mecury switch in them... We were constantly replacing
old stats and I could have gotten 2 or 3 a week indefinitely.  

Some companies may like to old thermostats to you... it's a little
expensive to dispose of the mercury, so if they can give it to you for
free, they will.  

Dave

Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From grichter at asapnet.net  Sun Mar  3 19:17:26 2002
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:17:26 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
In-Reply-To: <3C812FBA.FAC9349A@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <B8A7C4D6.37F40%grichter@asapnet.net>

It sounds great, the 2nd gen ARP filters are plenty phat. They have a clean
sound (a linear filter with low distortion). Some people fault them for the
lack of distortion, but I personally prefer a clean linear filter.

You can always add distortion latter.


> Speaking of LM3900's, I have always wanted to try one of the filters that uses
> a pair of transistors (connected differentially) with a current control to
> control
> the cutoff frequency (I think this is refered to as the Arp Filter).  Just how
> well (both electronically ad soundwise) does this really work?
> 



From grichter at asapnet.net  Sun Mar  3 19:22:58 2002
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:22:58 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20020303114207.0120d514@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <B8A7C622.37F41%grichter@asapnet.net>

Texas Instruments lists the LM3900 status as "active".

You can check status at:

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/productfolder.jhtml?genericPartNumber=LM3900

They are available in SMT format.

> From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:42:07 +1100
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
> 
> The LM3900 is available from Unicorn Electronics (USA) at $2.95 for 3.
> They don't have a min order AFAIK so, even from Europe, the best thng might
> be to get them from there. I'm in Australia, and most of my chips come from
> USA.
> They also have the LED bar driver chips, which will dry up soon I bet!
> 
> paul perry Melb Aust (whose only contact with the Grand Pricks here in
> Melbourne today was with the drunken yahoos streaming away from it afterwards)
> 
> 



From matti at devo.com  Sun Mar  3 19:50:30 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:50:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20020303102146.012188c0@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031341110.12126-100000@whipit.devo.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Paul Perry wrote:
*snip*

> There is a very civilised group, AHOT, specifically designed for people on
> AH who wnat to talk OT to AH members.
> I am sure SDIY members would be welcome (hint hint).
>
> paul perry melbourne australia

Heh. Is it time for this thread again?

I'll maintain that no sdiy-ot should be created, nor should ot threards be
move to AHOT as a matter of policy, as the ot threads here both are worth
reading to  a significant portion of listees and sometimes even crawl
their way back to on-topicdom; if a significant enough portion of the sdiy
population feels there should be a seperation between on-topic and ot,
perhaps an [ot] tag should be added to the subject line of ot emails,
allowing the listee to filter these outby hand or through software.

enjoy


-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Sun Mar  3 20:55:30 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:55:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
References: <B8A7C4D6.37F40%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C827FB2.8FF27962@eunet.yu>

Grant Richter wrote:
> 
> It sounds great, the 2nd gen ARP filters are plenty phat. They have a clean
> sound (a linear filter with low distortion). Some people fault them for the
> lack of distortion, but I personally prefer a clean linear filter.
> 

this one had design fault making it anemic in filter range, you shoud
halve
the four resistor in common emitter pairs in all stages (4K7->2K2) to
get full range (16khz)


-- 



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar  3 22:54:34 2002
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:54:34 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Don't Touch
References: <3c7f9568.6e89.0@telusplanet.net> <000901c1c17f$f11e80c0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <003801c1c2fe$0211fea0$93e5883e@default>


> Actually, I think a mercury switch type controller could have some very
> interesting real possibilites. If you set up a series of switches each
> activating at a slightly higher angle, and then wired them to a standard
> resistor divider, it could play different notes based on angle. I think
that
> I may have enough mercury switches to try this some time. The tune-tilter
> is born!

A friend of mine did something similar in the early 80s with a guitar body,
some mercury tilt switches and a simple oscillator. He used it for mock
guitar solos until he got bored with it.

Many of the cheaper tilt switches aren't mercury switches - just a ball
bearing in a tube with some contacts, so if you use cheap tilt switches,
expect to have to think about debouncing them.

I've uses some cheap tilt switches in a woodwind controller - they have
four pins at one end and the conections make in several combinations
depending on the angle.  Got them from Rapid electronics.


Steve Ridley







From xor20002001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  4 00:03:44 2002
From: xor20002001 at yahoo.com (yoseph hill)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:03:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] ibanez prime dual chorus pc10 question
Message-ID: <20020303230344.30849.qmail@web12208.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi:

I have an Ibanez prime dual chorus pc10. It is a unit
that can be switched to chorus or flanger. The chorus
is ok. The flanger section seems too weak for my ears.
It has speed, flange, width and delay time controls.
The flange control has little effect on the sound, it
turns it more metallic (the effect that you can expect
from a feedback control). The unit has a pot inside,
under the battery compartment. If you turn this, you
can achieve a more intense effect, but also
self-oscillation...

How can i get more strong flanging from this thing?

Thanks.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon Mar  4 01:51:09 2002
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (GothGeek Sysadmin)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:51:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
In-Reply-To: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>; from studio271@mail.ev1.net on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 06:08:03PM -0600
References: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>
Message-ID: <20020303165109.K17164@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 06:08:03PM -0600, studio271 wrote:
> When I first thought about what happens when mercury hits the 
> ground, I thought in terms of it being the same as a water spill; 
> everything stays together, very little splatter. However, when 
> mercury spills, it instantly breaks into thousands of little round 
> pellets about .2mm in diameter. Whats worse is that they then 
> proceed to cover the entire area of the surface you happened to 
> drop the stuff on. Very big problem. That's definitely why those 
> switches are encased in VERY thick glass (plastic won't offer good 
> leak protection for the joints to the electrodes, I think).

To think, when I was a kid we had a HUGE jar of mercury. I used to pour
little drops of it on the garage floor and whap it with a hammer.  Great fun!

Maybe this explains the addiction to BBDs...

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From synth1 at airmail.net  Mon Mar  4 07:02:34 2002
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:02:34 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Tons of new demos
Message-ID: <002c01c1c342$2dbb6c00$71765140@speakeasy.net>

I have just uploaded over 50 new MOTM analog modular demos to:

http://www.synthtech.com

Each module page (where it makes sense) has new demos, as does the Demo page (oddly enough).
Check the News page for 1 more and other stuff.

I will upload the new PDF catalog this week. I *really* need a T1 line after that session! The
module demos tend to be short (<300K). There is a section on the Demo page for the huge ones :)

Paul Schreiber
Synthesis Technology




From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Mon Mar  4 10:40:30 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:40:30 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
References: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>
		<3C8191C7.4F9E9CCB@prodigy.net> <20020303.054302.38713390.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3C83410E.25143855@globalnet.co.uk>

Hello all,

Magnus Danielson wrote:

> Ah well... these where the days when boys where boys, toys where toys
> and blowing up the house actually had a meaning to it. You dreamt of
> being a rocket scientist and invented new novel ways to make atom
> bombs.

Those were the days, eh? Building your own fireworks meant grinding up a mixture
of salt petre and sugar in small quantities with a motar and pessle. Man, did
they go bang or what?

> Today kids sit in dark rooms with extremely fast computers and try to
> figure out how to slash the most bodies in the most horrific way in
> the latest 3D graphic and sound version of Quake Ultra-violence. Few
> have actually seen a real chain-saw, even less have actually used one.

And are they fat? Their are kids in our cul-de-sac who are ten or twelves years
old and they weigh more than me! They should get out more and make their own
entertainment. 
 
> Meanwhile we are happy having just a tenth of the computer-power to do
> an analog simulation on it... ah well... I'm getting old, I'm getting
> 31... better just bugger off and stop wasting space...

Not a waste. Just monumentally pissed that so many people sit in at night and
watch Murdoch TV.

Me, I'm just trying to figure out if my AX80 is missing a note somewhere. Hood
up, looking for signals on CEM's. This is the life?

Regards
   David

-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk




From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Mon Mar  4 11:03:48 2002
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:03:48 +0100
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20020303114207.0120d514@popa.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <NFBBJMKIGLMKFFANIMJBIEDMCLAA.np@inverse-entertainment.de>



> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]Im Auftrag von Paul Perry
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. M?rz 2002 12:42
> An: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Equiv of LM3900?
>
> The LM3900 is available from Unicorn Electronics (USA) at $2.95 for 3.
> They don't have a min order AFAIK so, even from Europe, the best
> thng might

In Europe (and especially germany) I would recommend Reichelt Electronik
(www.reichelt.de) LM3900 cost 49 eurocent a pop. (sorry for the
advertisement, but I'm just amazed over the price difference).

Besides - The LM3900 where the first type of opamps I've ever played with.
They where part of my kids electronik experimentation kit (from phillips,
maybe someone else remembers). The only thing I still know about them was
that you need lots of 1M resistors around them. Lots more than you need when
dealing with "normal" opamps. I even remember how happy I was when I found
out how easy to use the ?A741 is.

Bye,

	Nils Pipenbrinck
	(who has no time for synth building right now, but enjoys making music
instead)




From straversi at libero.it  Mon Mar  4 13:14:19 2002
From: straversi at libero.it (sandrotraversi)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:14:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] ASM-1 newbie & cap questions
References: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>	<3C8191C7.4F9E9CCB@prodigy.net> <20020303.054302.38713390.cfmd@swipnet.se> <3C83410E.25143855@globalnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <006301c1c376$1d846e20$e5b11897@LocalHost>

Hi folks !

building my 1st ASM i'm meeting my first difficulties also in finding
requested parts ...

1 - vco fet should be 2N4856 or 2N4391 - it'd be good also a BF245 ?
2 - i made some errors in my RS order - so now i got polystyrene cap 2200pF
/ 160Vdc !!!
Is too high as a volt value ? I must swap them to 50 vdc ???
3 - as above , also for lfo/glide big cap I got a big ceramic 1,0uF / 100
vdc !  better swap ?
4 - that 18pF cap in vco - i can't find that value so i picked a styrene
15pF - is still good ?
5 - again that 30pF cap in vcf - i can't find them so i picked a styrene
33pF - are still good ?

many thanks for any hints ...

sandro



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  4 16:04:38 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:04:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] ASM-1 newbie & cap questions
Message-ID: <F1747818Uvp0QTgp9CE0000ed69@hotmail.com>

Hi Sandro... (inline)


>From: "sandrotraversi" <straversi at libero.it>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: [sdiy] ASM-1 newbie & cap questions
>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:14:19 +0100
>
>Hi folks !
>
>building my 1st ASM i'm meeting my first difficulties also in finding
>requested parts ...
>
>1 - vco fet should be 2N4856 or 2N4391 - it'd be good also a BF245 ?
>2 - i made some errors in my RS order - so now i got polystyrene cap 2200pF
>/ 160Vdc !!!
>Is too high as a volt value ? I must swap them to 50 vdc ???

Higher voltage is OK... as long as mechanical fit is possible.

>3 - as above , also for lfo/glide big cap I got a big ceramic 1,0uF / 100
>vdc !  better swap ?

I'd get a different one. Ceramic in that voltage and value is probably
a Z5U (not very good for temperature stability or tolerance).  I'd
prefer a polycarbonate type here. Avoid using Polyester (Mylar) because the 
dielectric absorption is 20x worse than polycarbonate or
polystyrene.

OTOH you may not notice  ;^)

>4 - that 18pF cap in vco - i can't find that value so i picked a styrene
>15pF - is still good ?

Good.

>5 - again that 30pF cap in vcf - i can't find them so i picked a styrene
>33pF - are still good ?

Good.

Good luck.  I wrote a capacitor tutorial that lives at 
www.musicsynthesizer.com and some other sites as well. Maybe
you should check it out.

H^) harry
>
>many thanks for any hints ...
>
>sandro
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Mon Mar  4 16:15:44 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:15:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] ASM-1 newbie & cap questions
References: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>	<3C8191C7.4F9E9CCB@prodigy.net> <20020303.054302.38713390.cfmd@swipnet.se> <3C83410E.25143855@globalnet.co.uk> <006301c1c376$1d846e20$e5b11897@LocalHost>
Message-ID: <3C838FA0.BFC05376@eunet.yu>


> 1 - vco fet should be 2N4856 or 2N4391 - it'd be good also a BF245 ?


It's nice JFET, it's the only one ever used. Works quite good in VCO
apps, you only need to tweak the reset RC constant

> 2 - i made some errors in my RS order - so now i got polystyrene cap 2200pF
> / 160Vdc !!!
> Is too high as a volt value ? I must swap them to 50 vdc ???

No, but I'm not sure you'll fit such a large cap in there, otherwise
it's not the problem

> 3 - as above , also for lfo/glide big cap I got a big ceramic 1,0uF / 100
> vdc !  better swap ?

no, use some poly ones, esp on glide, but lfo will benefit too (not 
so crucial)

> 4 - that 18pF cap in vco - i can't find that value so i picked a styrene
> 15pF - is still good ?

that's part of RC constant you should tweak, I often need a bit larger
cap, 33p or something. not sure if 15 (or 18p) will work...

> 5 - again that 30pF cap in vcf - i can't find them so i picked a styrene
> 33pF - are still good ?

that's the one in the feedback? not critical at all, you can use 100p
if you want but 33p would be ok

cheers,


-- 



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From Stefano.Costa at icn.siemens.it  Mon Mar  4 18:31:38 2002
From: Stefano.Costa at icn.siemens.it (Stefano Costa)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:31:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
References: <200203021808.AA318832864@mail.ev1.net>
Message-ID: <3C83AF7A.3BEF9B4D@ikuws03.cassina>

studio271 wrote:

> When I first thought about what happens when mercury hits the
> ground, I thought in terms of it being the same as a water spill;
> everything stays together, very little splatter. However, when
> mercury spills, it instantly breaks into thousands of little round
> pellets about .2mm in diameter.

Correct. The inter-atomic forces force this behaviour.

> Whats worse is that they then
> proceed to cover the entire area of the surface you happened to
> drop the stuff on. Very big problem.

Basically, since drops are very small (but if more drops join toghether,
they stay united), they have very little friction, so they move quickly
from initial momentum force.

> That's definitely why those
> switches are encased in VERY thick glass (plastic won't offer good
> leak protection for the joints to the electrodes, I think).
>
> Just thought I'd offer that little tidbit o' info.
>
> -271
>
> BTW - touching mercury itself will permenantly color that part of
> your skin brown. Not a fun "battle scar" to have...

It's very strange this, because mercury in normal ambient condition
(temperature, pH...) does not react with human skin. Maybe you have
touched something before that has reacted with mercury.

Stefano
(once upon a time a chemist)



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Mar  4 20:51:28 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:51:28 EST
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Message-ID: <173.483e0ad.29b52a40@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/4/02 5:09:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
dhughes at globalnet.co.uk writes:


> Those were the days, eh? Building your own fireworks meant grinding up a 
> mixture
> of salt petre and sugar in small quantities with a motar and pessle. Man, 
> did
> 

Small quantities? I used to buy it 5 pounds at a time. Found some photos of 
them going off while looking through some old stuff of mine yesterday..

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020304/5aba3eee/attachment.htm>

From moog at sick.cl  Mon Mar  4 21:00:29 2002
From: moog at sick.cl (Cristian Mardones)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:00:29 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] midi keyboard proyect troubleshooting!!
Message-ID: <01c1c3b7$3bce6ca0$LocalHost@wefwf>

hi all, im building a midi keyboard proyect using pic microcontrolers , and im having problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hehe , it is the first microcontroler stuff i made.... and i dont know whats the deal...


since i made it in a protoboard ,could ive damage it with the static trougth the other components? 

can the pic be testted somehow?? (without a ociloscope)

thats it..

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020304/206d1eab/attachment.htm>

From elmystico at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  5 02:27:40 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Magus Ship)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:27:40 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Message-ID: <E16i3mV-0001KY-00@pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

anybody want to start fireworks diy list?
----------
From: CHoaglin at aol.com
To: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk, cfmd at swipnet.se
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Date: Mon, Mar 4, 2002, 2:51 PM


In a message dated 3/4/02 5:09:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dhughes at globalnet.co.uk writes: 


Those were the days, eh? Building your own fireworks meant grinding up a
mixture 
of salt petre and sugar in small quantities with a motar and pessle. Man,
did 
they go bang or what?


Small quantities? I used to buy it 5 pounds at a time. Found some photos of
them going off while looking through some old stuff of mine yesterday.. 

-Chris 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020304/45fbf520/attachment.htm>

From n0nspaz at mindspring.com  Tue Mar  5 03:13:43 2002
From: n0nspaz at mindspring.com (markus)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:13:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] pre/post switch
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020304211053.00ca5780@pop.mindspring.com>

how would you wire up a simple, common (DPDT?) switch that routed a signal 
from A to B, or B to A depending on the position of the switch ? no fair 
using relays!
mark



From esresource at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  5 03:43:02 2002
From: esresource at earthlink.net (Scott Evans, Gen Mgr)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:43:02 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] pre/post switch
References: <4.2.0.58.20020304211053.00ca5780@pop.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C8430B6.1D794AE4@earthlink.net>

If your question is to route two signals to two destinations it would be
as follows:

The each signal would be routed to the center poles of the switch. The
destinations would be routed to one side of the switch. The other side
of the DPDT would cross connect (like an X) to the destination sides so
that flipping the switch would alternate to the other destinations.

I tried drawing this in ASCII with no success. Perhaps some talented
artist can do a gif.

Scott

markus wrote:
> 
> how would you wire up a simple, common (DPDT?) switch that routed a signal
> from A to B, or B to A depending on the position of the switch ? no fair
> using relays!
> mark


From KHeck73 at aol.com  Tue Mar  5 05:36:36 2002
From: KHeck73 at aol.com (KHeck73 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:36:36 EST
Subject: [sdiy] harmonic generator & megaloopers
Message-ID: <18.1b32bfc8.29b5a554@aol.com>

In a message dated 2/28/2002 9:34:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jhaible at debitel.net writes:




> the harmonic contents of the window function will directly reflect
> the amount of artefacts in the gated sine signal.
> So a triangle (or trapezoid) will produce less "click" than a rectangle, and
> I guess
> a raised cosine would be even smoother.
> 
> JH.
> 

An example of this in application concerns continuous wave radio transmission 
(CW, morse code). The shape of the keyed pulse is important because sharp 
edges on either the leading or tail edge of a sine carrier wave pulse will 
create spurious emissions and harmonics off the carrier frequency (ie, 
interference on other frequencies). In radio, the oscillator pulse envelope 
edges should be shaped away from having sharp corners to prevent the 
generation of key clicks and harmonics. If the oscillator output is well 
rounded, but the amplification of the pulse is not linear, then the envelope 
shape might still be altered to sharper attack and decay. Driving audio 
modulation of a carrier to clipping is similar, and creates what is called 
'splatter' in radio lingo. I think the same sine function math is involved 
(fuzz?).

A similar form of distortion results if an amplifier is pulsed into a 
momentary parasitic oscillation by a sharp envelope. Then, clicks form in 
groups on both sides of the sine carrier at multiples related to the 
parasitic oscillation. There's a "gibbs function" (?) that might describe the 
ringing at the edge of a sharp transition, but I can't remember the details.

If you have a shortwave receiver (switchable between AM mode and SSB) you can 
listen to morse code and hear differences in how different transmitted signal 
pulses are shaped. Ranging from woody thumps (mellow), to sharp clicks and 
pops (harsh). 

-Karl.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020304/fa6811d6/attachment.htm>

From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Mar  5 07:04:09 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:04:09
Subject: [sdiy] pre/post switch
Message-ID: <20020305150424.CES9330.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>


Like this: 


                 +----------------  out 1
                 |
 A ----------*   *   *
              \     /
               \   /
                \ /
                 X   <--- no connection at X
                / \
               /   \
              /     \
 B ----------*   *   *
                 |
                 +----------------  out 2





"Scott Evans, Gen Mgr" <esresource at earthlink.net> wrote:
>If your question is to route two signals to two destinations it would be
>as follows:
>
>The each signal would be routed to the center poles of the switch. The
>destinations would be routed to one side of the switch. The other side
>of the DPDT would cross connect (like an X) to the destination sides so
>that flipping the switch would alternate to the other destinations.
>
>I tried drawing this in ASCII with no success. Perhaps some talented
>artist can do a gif.
>
>Scott
>
>markus wrote:
>> 
>> how would you wire up a simple, common (DPDT?) switch that routed a signal
>> from A to B, or B to A depending on the position of the switch ? no fair
>> using relays!
>> mark

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Mar  5 09:05:13 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:05:13
Subject: [sdiy] pre/post switch
Message-ID: <20020305170437.ODAO18285.out006.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Ah.

Yes, I think so.  There are too many paths to use a DPDT.

One could use some CD4066 gates and an SPDT switch.

There aren't any relays...  (c:

mark verbos <a0284520 at addcom.de> wrote:
>I don't think that's what he wanted. I  imagine Marus was looking for this.
>
>a = input
>b = in of first module
>c = out of first modules
>d = in of second module
>e = out of second module
>f = output
>
>then you need a TPDT switch wired like this
>
>b-a-d
>d-c-f
>f-e-c
>
>
>when it is in the "left mode" you will have input-first module-second 
>module-output
>when it is in the "right mode" upi will have input-second mdule-first 
>module-output
>
>
>am I right?
>
>mark
>
>
>
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
>>Like this: 
>>
>>
>>                 +----------------  out 1
>>                 |
>> A ----------*   *   *
>>              \     /
>>               \   /
>>                \ /
>>                 X   <--- no connection at X
>>                / \
>>               /   \
>>              /     \
>> B ----------*   *   *
>>                 |
>>                 +----------------  out 2
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Scott Evans, Gen Mgr" <esresource at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>If your question is to route two signals to two destinations it would be
>>>as follows:
>>>
>>>The each signal would be routed to the center poles of the switch. The
>>>destinations would be routed to one side of the switch. The other side
>>>of the DPDT would cross connect (like an X) to the destination sides so
>>>that flipping the switch would alternate to the other destinations.
>>>
>>>I tried drawing this in ASCII with no success. Perhaps some talented
>>>artist can do a gif.
>>>
>>>Scott
>>>
>>>markus wrote:
>>>
>>>>how would you wire up a simple, common (DPDT?) switch that routed a signal
>>>>from A to B, or B to A depending on the position of the switch ? no fair
>>>>using relays!
>>>>mark
>>>>
>>
>>=========================================================  
>>- Government: The other religion.
>>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>>- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>>
>>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>>-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
>>-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Tue Mar  5 10:09:07 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:09:07 EST
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
Message-ID: <a3.249ef4c1.29b5e533@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/4/02 8:33:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
elmystico at earthlink.net writes:


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Already exists...They're known on usenet as rec.pyrotechnics and 
alt.engr.explosives (funny how I remember both of those names so well even 
though it's been a few years...) I'm sure there's a yahoo group for this 
stuff by now too..


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020305/981420d4/attachment.htm>

From jlarryh at iquest.net  Tue Mar  5 14:32:16 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:32:16 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] DONT TOUCH
References: <a3.249ef4c1.29b5e533@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1c44a$2b9b3320$a9492bd1@oemcomputer>

Several of the members of both these usenet groups have since started a new
group.  See:
"rec.prosthesis.what.was.i.thinking"
<g>
Larry H

----- Original Message -----
From: CHoaglin at aol.com
Already exists...They're known on usenet as rec.pyrotechnics and
alt.engr.explosives (funny how I remember both of those names so well even
though it's been a few years...) I'm sure there's a yahoo group for this
stuff by now too..



From KPEEK1 at prodigy.net  Tue Mar  5 14:43:04 2002
From: KPEEK1 at prodigy.net (KPEEK1 at prodigy.net)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:43:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 1 volt/octave interval
Message-ID: <AA-B10FD27D194DFA2E7156B97FBA568B5D-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

If I have a 1 volt per octave synth, then
each octave (note =C) should start with an whole 
number volatge- ie, 1 volt, 2 volt, 3 volt. 
Each note in bewteen would have a interval of .0909?

C3 = 3 volts
C#3= 3.0909 volts
D3 = 3.1818 volts

Is this correct?????



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Mar  5 15:33:58 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 06:33:58 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 1 volt/octave interval
References: <AA-B10FD27D194DFA2E7156B97FBA568B5D-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000501c1c452$c9c9ea20$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Depends on the tuning. Zero volts or 1 volt could be any note or even
between notes. The only thing that you know for sure is the interval is 1
volt/octave.

John







----- Original Message -----
From: <KPEEK1 at prodigy.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:43 AM
Subject: [sdiy] 1 volt/octave interval


> If I have a 1 volt per octave synth, then
> each octave (note =C) should start with an whole
> number volatge- ie, 1 volt, 2 volt, 3 volt.
> Each note in bewteen would have a interval of .0909?
>
> C3 = 3 volts
> C#3= 3.0909 volts
> D3 = 3.1818 volts
>
> Is this correct?????
>
>



From chris.crosskey at vicon.com  Tue Mar  5 15:44:35 2002
From: chris.crosskey at vicon.com (Chris Crosskey)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:44:35 -0000 
Subject: [sdiy] 1 volt/octave interval
Message-ID: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D0208560CD8330@FILESERV>

No.....it should be about .08333 of a volt between
semitones...1/12.....Doesnt' have to be whole volts on C though I guess a
lot of us do do it that way (I do....)

chrisc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: KPEEK1 at prodigy.net [mailto:KPEEK1 at prodigy.net]
> Sent: 05 March 2002 13:43
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] 1 volt/octave interval
> 
> 
> If I have a 1 volt per octave synth, then
> each octave (note =C) should start with an whole 
> number volatge- ie, 1 volt, 2 volt, 3 volt. 
> Each note in bewteen would have a interval of .0909?
> 
> C3 = 3 volts
> C#3= 3.0909 volts
> D3 = 3.1818 volts
> 
> Is this correct?????
> 

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in
error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the
information in any way, and notify me immediately.


From a0284520 at addcom.de  Tue Mar  5 16:55:29 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:55:29 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] pre/post switch
References: <20020305150424.CES9330.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <3C84EA71.7050102@addcom.de>

I don't think that's what he wanted. I  imagine Marus was looking for this.

a = input
b = in of first module
c = out of first modules
d = in of second module
e = out of second module
f = output

then you need a TPDT switch wired like this

b-a-d
d-c-f
f-e-c


when it is in the "left mode" you will have input-first module-second 
module-output
when it is in the "right mode" upi will have input-second mdule-first 
module-output


am I right?

mark



Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>Like this: 
>
>
>                 +----------------  out 1
>                 |
> A ----------*   *   *
>              \     /
>               \   /
>                \ /
>                 X   <--- no connection at X
>                / \
>               /   \
>              /     \
> B ----------*   *   *
>                 |
>                 +----------------  out 2
>
>
>
>
>
>"Scott Evans, Gen Mgr" <esresource at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>If your question is to route two signals to two destinations it would be
>>as follows:
>>
>>The each signal would be routed to the center poles of the switch. The
>>destinations would be routed to one side of the switch. The other side
>>of the DPDT would cross connect (like an X) to the destination sides so
>>that flipping the switch would alternate to the other destinations.
>>
>>I tried drawing this in ASCII with no success. Perhaps some talented
>>artist can do a gif.
>>
>>Scott
>>
>>markus wrote:
>>
>>>how would you wire up a simple, common (DPDT?) switch that routed a signal
>>>from A to B, or B to A depending on the position of the switch ? no fair
>>>using relays!
>>>mark
>>>
>
>=========================================================  
>- Government: The other religion.
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
>-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>
>
>




From jamos at technotoys.com  Tue Mar  5 16:55:56 2002
From: jamos at technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:55:56 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 1 volt/octave interval
In-Reply-To: <AA-B10FD27D194DFA2E7156B97FBA568B5D-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>
References: <AA-B10FD27D194DFA2E7156B97FBA568B5D-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <200203050755560420.08C40AC8@161.58.178.202>

Your calculator needs new batteries. 1.0 / 12 = 0.083333333,,,

Jim Johnson 
Metaphoric Software
-------------------
Makers of Techno Toys
Software for Electronic Music
http://www.technotoys.com
info at technotoys.com

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/5/02 at 8:43 AM KPEEK1 at prodigy.net wrote:

>If I have a 1 volt per octave synth, then
>each octave (note =C) should start with an whole 
>number volatge- ie, 1 volt, 2 volt, 3 volt. 
>Each note in bewteen would have a interval of .0909?
>
>C3 = 3 volts
>C#3= 3.0909 volts
>D3 = 3.1818 volts
>
>Is this correct?????





From a0284520 at addcom.de  Tue Mar  5 17:50:29 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:50:29 +0100
Subject: OOPS! Re: [sdiy] pre/post switch
References: <20020305150424.CES9330.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan> <3C84EA71.7050102@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <3C84F755.5090704@addcom.de>

OOPS! I mean

b-a-d
d-c-f
f-e-b

translation from pencil sketch to typed message ;)

mark

BTW. each typed line is 1 pole. since it's 3 letters each way....

mark verbos wrote:

> I don't think that's what he wanted. I  imagine Marus was looking for 
> this.
>
> a = input
> b = in of first module
> c = out of first modules
> d = in of second module
> e = out of second module
> f = output
>
> then you need a TPDT switch wired like this
>
> b-a-d
> d-c-f
> f-e-c
>
>
> when it is in the "left mode" you will have input-first module-second 
> module-output
> when it is in the "right mode" upi will have input-second mdule-first 
> module-output
>
>
> am I right?
>
> mark
>
>
>
> Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
>> Like this:
>>
>>                 +----------------  out 1
>>                 |
>> A ----------*   *   *
>>              \     /
>>               \   /
>>                \ /
>>                 X   <--- no connection at X
>>                / \
>>               /   \
>>              /     \
>> B ----------*   *   *
>>                 |
>>                 +----------------  out 2
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Scott Evans, Gen Mgr" <esresource at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> If your question is to route two signals to two destinations it would be
>>> as follows:
>>>
>>> The each signal would be routed to the center poles of the switch. The
>>> destinations would be routed to one side of the switch. The other side
>>> of the DPDT would cross connect (like an X) to the destination sides so
>>> that flipping the switch would alternate to the other destinations.
>>>
>>> I tried drawing this in ASCII with no success. Perhaps some talented
>>> artist can do a gif.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> markus wrote:
>>>
>>>> how would you wire up a simple, common (DPDT?) switch that routed a 
>>>> signal
>>>> from A to B, or B to A depending on the position of the switch ? no 
>>>> fair
>>>> using relays!
>>>> mark
>>>>
>>
>> =========================================================  - 
>> Government: The other religion.
>> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>> - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>>
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>> -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
>> -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>




From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Tue Mar  5 18:12:52 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (oleavitt at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:12:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 1 volt/octave interval
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.1015348372.0.05056900@www.springmail.com>

Assuming that this is for a standard 12 note (semitone) equal tempered scale, you will want: 1/12 = 0.0833333... volts per semitone.
83.3333... milivolts per semitone.

Base starting points can be anywhere depending on what you're driving, you'll most likely want to use some DC offset to adjust the transposition so that your C's are on the whole number voltages, if that is what you're after.

I hope that helps...

Oren

KPEEK1 at prodigy.net wrote:
> If I have a 1 volt per octave synth, then
each octave (note =C) should start with an whole 
number volatge- ie, 1 volt, 2 volt, 3 volt. 
Each note in bewteen would have a interval of .0909?

C3 = 3 volts
C#3= 3.0909 volts
D3 = 3.1818 volts

Is this correct?????



From blacet at blacet.com  Tue Mar  5 18:35:02 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:35:02 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] MN3005 for sale
References: <4.2.0.58.20020304211053.00ca5780@pop.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C8501C5.90AF8764@blacet.com>

Hi All:

We have 8 MN3005 BBDs that are new, tested work fine, except they won't
go out to 2S of delay (which is what our TM module requires). They will
go out to at least 1S.

These would work great in almost any delay project. A more typical,
usable delay time for most anlaog delay projects is 100 mS to 800 mS.
Beyond this, the useable audio bandwidth gets very  low.

I'm starting to see these for $50 to $70 each but I'll let them go for
$20 each; anybody wants all eight, e-mail right now!

Pay Pal is definitely preferred for this; can also take MC/VISA.

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From KPEEK1 at prodigy.net  Tue Mar  5 18:43:35 2002
From: KPEEK1 at prodigy.net (KPEEK1 at prodigy.net)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:43:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] SEKU analog sequencer
Message-ID: <AA-FAD9AE0CD052639D254B7CCCD09275E5-ZZ@maillink1.prodigy.net>

Anybody seen /built this?
http://www.studiomanus.com/seku.htm
Looks pretty simple.




From n0nspaz at mindspring.com  Tue Mar  5 19:49:15 2002
From: n0nspaz at mindspring.com (markus)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:49:15 -0500
Subject: OOPS! Re: [sdiy] pre/post switch
In-Reply-To: <3C84F755.5090704@addcom.de>
References: <20020305150424.CES9330.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>
 <3C84EA71.7050102@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020305134903.00cbaa50@pop.mindspring.com>

looks great thanks!!
-m

At 05:50 PM 3/5/02 +0100, you wrote:
>OOPS! I mean
>
>b-a-d
>d-c-f
>f-e-b
>
>translation from pencil sketch to typed message ;)
>
>mark
>
>BTW. each typed line is 1 pole. since it's 3 letters each way....
>
>mark verbos wrote:
>
>>I don't think that's what he wanted. I  imagine Marus was looking for this.
>>
>>a = input
>>b = in of first module
>>c = out of first modules
>>d = in of second module
>>e = out of second module
>>f = output
>>
>>then you need a TPDT switch wired like this
>>
>>b-a-d
>>d-c-f
>>f-e-c
>>
>>
>>when it is in the "left mode" you will have input-first module-second 
>>module-output
>>when it is in the "right mode" upi will have input-second mdule-first 
>>module-output
>>
>>
>>am I right?
>>
>>mark
>>
>>
>>
>>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>>
>>>Like this:
>>>
>>>                 +----------------  out 1
>>>                 |
>>>A ----------*   *   *
>>>              \     /
>>>               \   /
>>>                \ /
>>>                 X   <--- no connection at X
>>>                / \
>>>               /   \
>>>              /     \
>>>B ----------*   *   *
>>>                 |
>>>                 +----------------  out 2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Scott Evans, Gen Mgr" <esresource at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>If your question is to route two signals to two destinations it would be
>>>>as follows:
>>>>
>>>>The each signal would be routed to the center poles of the switch. The
>>>>destinations would be routed to one side of the switch. The other side
>>>>of the DPDT would cross connect (like an X) to the destination sides so
>>>>that flipping the switch would alternate to the other destinations.
>>>>
>>>>I tried drawing this in ASCII with no success. Perhaps some talented
>>>>artist can do a gif.
>>>>
>>>>Scott
>>>>
>>>>markus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>how would you wire up a simple, common (DPDT?) switch that routed a signal
>>>>>from A to B, or B to A depending on the position of the switch ? no fair
>>>>>using relays!
>>>>>mark
>>>
>>>=========================================================  - Government: 
>>>The other religion.
>>>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>>>- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>>>
>>>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>>>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>>>-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
>>>-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Tue Mar  5 19:55:48 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:55:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SEKU analog sequencer
References: <AA-FAD9AE0CD052639D254B7CCCD09275E5-ZZ@maillink1.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <3C8514B4.9060807@addcom.de>

nice front panel. love the sliders.

Kinda big though. Is it wood?


KPEEK1 at prodigy.net wrote:

>Anybody seen /built this?
>http://www.studiomanus.com/seku.htm
>Looks pretty simple.
>
>
>




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Tue Mar  5 20:59:00 2002
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:59:00 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] SEKU analog sequencer
References: <AA-FAD9AE0CD052639D254B7CCCD09275E5-ZZ@maillink1.prodigy.net> <3C8514B4.9060807@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <00d701c1c480$32495810$0100a8c0@Tigger>

Mark,

> nice front panel. love the sliders.
> Kinda big though. Is it wood?

looks kinda like bakalite to me..

Paul
______________________________________________
"I've seen the light at the end of the tunnel, And its blue!'

Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com




From media.nai at rcn.com  Wed Mar  6 00:47:25 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:47:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] harmonic generator
In-Reply-To: <005601c1bb44$9b0a5380$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
References: <v03130303b89a8503d244@208.58.250.241>
Message-ID: <v03130300b8aabdadd696@208.58.249.16>


>When we say 2nd, 4th, 8th, etc. we are talking about harmonics, not musical
>intervals.
>Ex: fundamental = 100 hz
>2nd harmonic = 2x frequency, or 1 octave up (200 hz)
>4th harmonic = 4x frequency, or two octaves up (400 hz)
>8th harmonic = 8x frequency, or 3 octaves up (800 hz)

Doh!!!

So I guess I've been working on a "musical interval generator" by accident.

>My understanding is that a full-wave rectified (absolute value) sine wave
>contains an infinite even harmonic series. A square wave contains an
>infinite odd harmonic series.

Is that true??

>Rate multipliers one of the coolest logic circuits around. Look at 7497 or
>74167. I think these were only made by Texas Instruments. There are a
>>couple of CMOS rate multipliers as well. Think of a logic block with a
>>clock input, a binary select the rate out and output at the rate. For
>>74167; 1 clock in 10, 2 clocks in 10, 3 clocks in 10. The down side? The
>>clock rate output is not evenly spaced. It must be divided down to reduce
>>pulse "jitter".

Wouldn't that be a rate divider (in other words a counter)??  That would
multiply the frequency when placed in the feedback path of a PLL.

>But the 4046 and friens are not good oscillators if you aim for
>sine-waves.

You're right, they aren't, but at least they are fairly inexpensive.   Is
there a good PLL or V/F converter that produces a sine??

>285 is the Frequencey shifter/ ring modulator.  I think you want the
>148. As far as I know, there was no 200 series version.

You are correct.  I typed the wrong number.  Apparently, the 248 is the
Multiple Arbitrary Function Generator.

The Buchla 148 is described on their website as having a voltage input (ie.
it contained a VCO).  As far I can remember, the "harmonic generator"
described in the Serge catalog used a frequency input (which is why I
thought it might have been based on a PLL).  I don't know if the Serge
module was ever actually made, however I do know it was in their catalog,
because I saw it before I ever knew the Buchla module existed.



--
My ISP has changed my address:
media at ct1.nai.net is now media.nai at rcn.com
media at mail1.nai.net is media.nai at rcm.com
Please make a note of it, Thanks!! :)




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Wed Mar  6 02:13:33 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:13:33 EST
Subject: [sdiy] pre/post switch
Message-ID: <147.a8cb4a7.29b6c73d@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/02 12:12:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
music.maker at gte.net writes:


> 
> Yes, I think so.  There are too many paths to use a DPDT.
> 
> One could use some CD4066 gates and an SPDT switch.
> 

While we're talking switching, who makes chips with many CMOS switches in one 
package? I'm thinking of homebrewing a computer video switch (I know it's 
cheaper to buy one, but what I want to do is too convoluted to be gotten off 
the shelf). Some of what I want could be done with straight-forward A-B-C-D 
style switching, but other things would be best done with matrix switching.


-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020305/299f51b5/attachment.htm>

From elmystico at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  6 07:06:50 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Magus Ship)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:06:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
Message-ID: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with diy
video synthesis? any tips?


From matti at devo.com  Wed Mar  6 08:55:25 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 02:55:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
In-Reply-To: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060251240.14983-100000@whipit.devo.com>

Get or use an oscilloscope. in X-Y mode, beautiful beautiful light shows
can be found. Try passing a lowpass filtered signal in the X, and the same
signal filtered highpass into the Y. Experiment with similar setups.

To get this onto a wall, for example, just use a video camera. Not
elegant, but it works.


enjoy


On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Magus Ship wrote:

> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with diy
> video synthesis? any tips?
>

-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Wed Mar  6 09:10:11 2002
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:10:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 1N5228?
Message-ID: <OF3B07BB90.A89D6818-ONC1256B74.002CE8DB@idg.se>

Hi DIYers. Does anybody know what kind of diode 1N5228 is? It is used in
the Vactrol LED driving circuit in several Buchla modules.
I suppose it is a zener, but what is the zener voltage?

/Jorgen




From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Mar  6 09:38:18 2002
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (GothGeek Sysadmin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:38:18 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 1N5228?
In-Reply-To: <OF3B07BB90.A89D6818-ONC1256B74.002CE8DB@idg.se>; from jorgen.bergfors@idg.se on Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 09:10:11AM +0100
References: <OF3B07BB90.A89D6818-ONC1256B74.002CE8DB@idg.se>
Message-ID: <20020306003818.Z17164@moo.sysabend.org>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 09:10:11AM +0100, jorgen.bergfors at idg.se wrote:
> Hi DIYers. Does anybody know what kind of diode 1N5228 is? It is used in
> the Vactrol LED driving circuit in several Buchla modules.
> I suppose it is a zener, but what is the zener voltage?

3.9V

( crosses to an NTE5007A  http://www.nteinc.com )

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From bahi0387 at terra.com.br  Wed Mar  6 09:44:03 2002
From: bahi0387 at terra.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:44:03 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
References: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C85D6D3.B11BE2AB@terra.com.br>

Hi all

Try an oscilloscope. In 1950-51, Norman McLaren made "Around is Around",
the first film made using an oscilloscope to generate patterns
(lissajous pictures). It was a 3-D film, with stereo soundtrack, 10
minutes long. 

I don?t know where you can find this film (it?s great!), but there?s
some animated lissajous pics here, just for fun:

http://www.netzmedien.de/software/download/java/lissajous/

Edu Silva

Magus Ship wrote:
> 
> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with
> diy video synthesis? any tips?


From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Wed Mar  6 09:48:37 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:48:37 +0100 
Subject: [sdiy] 1N5228?
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A67CE@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

3.9V
datasheet here:
http://www.gensemi.com/pdfs/1n52xx.pdf

Roman

""-----Original Message-----
""From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se [mailto:jorgen.bergfors at idg.se]
""Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:10 AM
""To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
""Subject: [sdiy] 1N5228?
""
""
""Hi DIYers. Does anybody know what kind of diode 1N5228 is? It 
""is used in
""the Vactrol LED driving circuit in several Buchla modules.
""I suppose it is a zener, but what is the zener voltage?
""
""/Jorgen
""
""
""
""
""---------------------------------------------------------
""This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
""
""Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
""oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
""


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From toughtech at dodo.com.au  Wed Mar  6 11:04:37 2002
From: toughtech at dodo.com.au (paul kimber)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:04:37 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
In-Reply-To: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0CdZtV047A140000.toughtech@dodo.com.au>

Check out this site - 
http://www.audiovisualizers.com
some interesting stuff, and kits/PCBs on the way.

cheers,
Paul


Magus Ship said at ?[sdiy] video synth?.
[06/Mar/02Wed 17:06]

> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with 
> diy
> video synthesis? any tips?
> 


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Wed Mar  6 11:24:18 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:24:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] harmonic generator
In-Reply-To: <v03130300b8aabdadd696@208.58.249.16>
References: <v03130303b89a8503d244@208.58.250.241> <v03130300b8aabdadd696@208.58.249.16>
Message-ID: <20020306102418.GB877@teaser.fr>

On 2002-03-05 18:47 -0500, media.nai at rcn.com wrote:

> >My understanding is that a full-wave rectified (absolute value) sine wave
> >contains an infinite even harmonic series. A square wave contains an
> >infinite odd harmonic series.
> 
> Is that true??

Definitely true for the square wave. An ideal square wave is
sin n + 1/3 sin 3n + 1/5 sin 5n + ... Try it with a plotting
program. Actual devices have finite bandwidth so you only get the
harmonics up to 20 kHz or so.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
std::disclaimer ("Not speaking for my employer");


From ka4hjh at gte.net  Wed Mar  6 11:25:49 2002
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 05:25:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060251240.14983-100000@whipit.devo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060251240.14983-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <p05100302b8ab9ed646cd@[67.200.137.241]>

>> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
>> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with diy
>> video synthesis? any tips?
>>
>Get or use an oscilloscope. in X-Y mode, beautiful beautiful light shows
>can be found. Try passing a lowpass filtered signal in the X, and the same
>signal filtered highpass into the Y. Experiment with similar setups.
>
>To get this onto a wall, for example, just use a video camera. Not
>elegant, but it works.

Here's a cool gadget that does some neat 'scope tricks:

http://www.crowncity.net/ratcave/Electro/ScopeArt/ScopeArt.html
-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"By the end of Chuck Statler's 'Rock Videos' of Devo we agreed that even if
Devo did not take the stage it was still the best concert any of us had
ever attended." --Kim Thayil (Soundgardern), 1995


From pgrenader at mksound.com  Wed Mar  6 11:30:56 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 03:30:56 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Env gen question
In-Reply-To: <20020306184653.77262.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8AB3DE7.2AB4%pgrenader@mksound.com>



Don't know about MOTM, but the Doepfer's ADSR invert out goes from 0 to -,
not from high + to ground, inverted like i wished to hell it did.

If it did of course,  retriggering it with that inverted out would be a
snap.  Unfortunately, they didn't think this specific application through.

Personally, I see little use for an envelope output that goes from 0 to -,
but that's me.

on 3/6/02 11:46 AM, Tim Ressel at madhun2001 at yahoo.com wrote:

> Hi y'all,
> 
> On envelope gens like the MOTM, where is a "+" and a
> "-" output, I assume the "-" output idles at 10v and
> goes towards 0v as the envelope progresses. This is
> opposed to being a simple invert where 0 to +10v is
> inverted to 0 to -10v. 




From amajorel at teaser.fr  Wed Mar  6 11:57:03 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:57:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] harmonic generator & megaloopers
In-Reply-To: <3C7E7B8A.4070607@addcom.de>
References: <B8A3B76E.37E8C%grichter@asapnet.net> <3C7E7B8A.4070607@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <20020306105703.GC877@teaser.fr>

On 2002-02-28 19:48 +0100, mark verbos wrote:

> Grant Richter wrote:
>
> >It seems something like that should also apply to a continuous time
> >transform. Changes in the shape of the discontinuity (edges of the window)
> >should appear in the output of the transform and change the short term
> >harmonic spectra.
> >
> >The only time I have seen this mentioned is Electronotes #45 Page 21
> >"Transform methods in musical engineering" where Bernie talks about how the
> >Fourier series fails for gated sine waves. But he does not say what does
> >happens exactly, or why fading in a sine wave vs. gating it removes the
> >clicks mathematically.
> >
> wouldn't that suggest that the sine wave should be synched to the note 
> start? That way beginning of a note is always comming from a zero point. 
> Then the click that results from a short attack would be eliminated. 
> Assuming that the abrupt jump to the zero state doesn't cause a click at 
> the end of the previous note ;)

Yes, but that won't be enough. That removes the discontinuity in
the value but not the discontinuity in the derivative. In other
words, the curve does not jump from one value to another but it
still has a sharp angle and it translates as a short burst of dull
noise. Listen to it for yourself :

  http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/gatedsine/

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
std::disclaimer ("Not speaking for my employer");


From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Wed Mar  6 12:18:26 2002
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:18:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] harmonic generator
Message-ID: <OF378B42AC.7DB1F282-ONC1256B74.003DBD2A@idg.se>


>My understanding is that a full-wave rectified (absolute value) sine wave
>contains an infinite even harmonic series.

Yes, but it desn't have much higher harmonics.
You will get a nice spectrum with only even harmonics, if you mix a sine
wave with a sawtooth of twice the frequency. The sine should have 1.273
times the amplitude of the sawtooth.

You can check the overtones of different waveform at this excellent site:
http://www.falstad.com/fourier/

/Jorgen

P.S. Thanks to Magnus Danielsson and Mattias Rickardsson for help with this
information.



From andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu  Wed Mar  6 12:55:51 2002
From: andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu (David Anderson)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 06:55:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
In-Reply-To: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1994908.1015397748@david>

Peer Bode (http://iea.art.alfred.edu/html/people/bode.htm), son of Harald 
Bode, is an audio visual artist. He teaches at Alfred University. He's done 
loads of stuff using analog equipment (not sure who built it) and was an 
early digital user. A search on Google should turn up tons of links.

David

--On Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:06 AM -0500 Magus Ship 
<elmystico at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with diy
> video synthesis? any tips?



From a0284520 at addcom.de  Wed Mar  6 13:30:37 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:30:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] harmonic generator
References: <v03130303b89a8503d244@208.58.250.241> <v03130300b8aabdadd696@208.58.249.16>
Message-ID: <3C860BED.9060507@addcom.de>

i would like to see that catalog. Maybe it was just an input insted of 
being hardwired to an oscillator. that is more Serge style really. Of 
course all the breakpoints will have to be trimmed for the specific 
voltage level of the input wave, so it might and up with really shitty 
sine waves.

mark

media.nai at rcn.com wrote:

>>285 is the Frequencey shifter/ ring modulator.  I think you want the
>>148. As far as I know, there was no 200 series version.
>>
>
>You are correct.  I typed the wrong number.  Apparently, the 248 is the
>Multiple Arbitrary Function Generator.
>
>The Buchla 148 is described on their website as having a voltage input (ie.
>it contained a VCO).  As far I can remember, the "harmonic generator"
>described in the Serge catalog used a frequency input (which is why I
>thought it might have been based on a PLL).  I don't know if the Serge
>module was ever actually made, however I do know it was in their catalog,
>because I saw it before I ever knew the Buchla module existed.
>
>
>
>--
>My ISP has changed my address:
>media at ct1.nai.net is now media.nai at rcn.com
>media at mail1.nai.net is media.nai at rcm.com
>Please make a note of it, Thanks!! :)
>
>
>




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Wed Mar  6 13:32:06 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:32:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 1N5228?
References: <OF3B07BB90.A89D6818-ONC1256B74.002CE8DB@idg.se>
Message-ID: <3C860C46.8050900@addcom.de>

1N5228 is a 3.9volt Zener

jorgen.bergfors at idg.se wrote:

>Hi DIYers. Does anybody know what kind of diode 1N5228 is? It is used in
>the Vactrol LED driving circuit in several Buchla modules.
>I suppose it is a zener, but what is the zener voltage?
>
>/Jorgen
>
>
>




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Wed Mar  6 13:36:02 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:36:02 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] harmonic generator
In-Reply-To: <OF378B42AC.7DB1F282-ONC1256B74.003DBD2A@idg.se>
References: <OF378B42AC.7DB1F282-ONC1256B74.003DBD2A@idg.se>
Message-ID: <20020306.133602.35011134.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se
Subject: Re: [sdiy] harmonic generator
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:18:26 +0100

> 
> >My understanding is that a full-wave rectified (absolute value) sine wave
> >contains an infinite even harmonic series.
> 
> Yes, but it desn't have much higher harmonics.

What you get is only even harmonics falling of at -12 dB/Oct, or by 1/n^2.

> You will get a nice spectrum with only even harmonics, if you mix a sine
> wave with a sawtooth of twice the frequency. The sine should have 1.273
> times the amplitude of the sawtooth.
> 
> You can check the overtones of different waveform at this excellent site:
> http://www.falstad.com/fourier/
> 
> /Jorgen
> 
> P.S. Thanks to Magnus Danielsson and Mattias Rickardsson for help with this
> information.

It has been discussed at the SAS-list, so now you see what you miss by
not speaking (or at least read) Swedish! ;O)

It is not uncommon for discussions to spill over...

Cheers,
Magnus


From pgrenader at mksound.com  Wed Mar  6 16:02:50 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:02:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Env gen question
In-Reply-To: <3C868C37.8630E555@eunet.yu>
Message-ID: <B8AB7DAA.2AD6%pgrenader@mksound.com>

This is exactly what I end up doing....I run the inverted output through a
Buchla/Serge type voltage adder I slapped together...but it would be a lot
easier if i didn't have to!

on 3/6/02 2:37 PM, >>>marjan<<< at urekar.m at EUnet.yu wrote:

> Peter Grenader wrote:
>> 
>> Don't know about MOTM, but the Doepfer's ADSR invert out goes from 0 to -,
>> not from high + to ground, inverted like i wished to hell it did.
>> 
> 
> that shoud be easy to fix, find the inverting opamp that inverts env
> signal
> connect trimmer from summing point to -V and trim to get 0 when env hits
> it's peak (or max in - range) ie that sustain is at 0 volts (or whatever
> you need), that's why inverters with manual offset come handy...
> 
> 
> 
> marjan
> 
> 
> me    : Marjan Urekar
> e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
> s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
> music : http://go.to/forcemajeure
> 
> 




From music.maker at gte.net  Wed Mar  6 16:34:04 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:34:04
Subject: [sdiy] Env gen question
Message-ID: <20020307003335.BZHQ23259.out006.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Oh, but the simplest of modules can be the most useful.
Isn't it odd how we are annoyed by such things?  But 
at least there are easy methods to accomplish such
seemingly mundane, albeit important things.  We lust after 
that contortionator, the per-knobulator, distortionator, 
alpha-disonic-modulator, thingamjig and muffler-bearing...  
Really, these "inverter" things are basic analogue computer 
elements and are, IMHO, "must haves".  AND they are some
of the easiest things to SDIY.  Ah, but who wants to
build such a boring thing as an "inverter"...  Then again,
think about life *without* them.

Peter Grenader <pgrenader at mksound.com> wrote:
>This is exactly what I end up doing....I run the inverted output through a
>Buchla/Serge type voltage adder I slapped together...but it would be a lot
>easier if i didn't have to!
>
>on 3/6/02 2:37 PM, >>>marjan<<< at urekar.m at EUnet.yu wrote:
>
>> Peter Grenader wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don't know about MOTM, but the Doepfer's ADSR invert out goes from 0 to -,
>>> not from high + to ground, inverted like i wished to hell it did.
>>> 
>> 
>> that shoud be easy to fix, find the inverting opamp that inverts env
>> signal
>> connect trimmer from summing point to -V and trim to get 0 when env hits
>> it's peak (or max in - range) ie that sustain is at 0 volts (or whatever
>> you need), that's why inverters with manual offset come handy...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> marjan
>> 
>> 
>> me    : Marjan Urekar
>> e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
>> s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
>> music : http://go.to/forcemajeure
>> 
>> 
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From grichter at asapnet.net  Wed Mar  6 17:50:48 2002
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:50:48 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
In-Reply-To: <0CdZtV047A140000.toughtech@dodo.com.au>
Message-ID: <B8ABA508.37FB8%grichter@asapnet.net>

Who is making the kits and PCBs?

I just got my modernized IP working again yesterday. Rex is agitating for me
to do something with the design.

I am wondering who, if anybody, has the guts and money to introduce analog
video products now????

Digital video has pretty much killed analog video. Try finding analog video
chips nowadays.

There might be enough interest for a small edition though.


> From: paul kimber <toughtech at dodo.com.au>
> Reply-To: toughtech at dodo.com.au
> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:04:37 +1100
> To: synth <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] video synth
> 
> Check out this site -
> http://www.audiovisualizers.com
> some interesting stuff, and kits/PCBs on the way.
> 
> cheers,
> Paul
> 
> 
> Magus Ship said at ?[sdiy] video synth?.
> [06/Mar/02Wed 17:06]
> 
>> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
>> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with
>> diy
>> video synthesis? any tips?
>> 
> 



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Wed Mar  6 18:07:22 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:07:22 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Source for Switchcraft plugs?
Message-ID: <174.49f512c.29b7a6ca@aol.com>

Hello list,

Can anyone recommend a good (read: cheap) source for Switchcraft 1/4" plugs?  
I need TRS (3-conductor) types.  I'm wiring up some 24 channel 
1/4"-to-1/4"snakes for my recording setup.

Best regards,
Mike Bacich


From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Wed Mar  6 18:10:04 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (oleavitt at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:10:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.1015434604.0.66794800@www.springmail.com>

Many years ago, I had schematics for a set of simple passive RC/diode circuits that produced the numbers 0 to 9 on your scope's display when connected to the X-Y inputs and fed a 60Hz sine wave as input.
A circuit for each numeral.
They looked like nice sinusoidal, hand-written numbers.

If I find them again, I'll share them. Anybody else played with this sort of thing?

In addition to active filters, phasors, reverbs and delays also produce some wild patterns on the scope with the unprocessed input signal fed to one axis and the output of the effect to the other axis.

Another way to project an XY display onto a wall is to point a laser at a small mirror mounted on a speaker, direct the refleted beam to another mirror/speaker positioned so that the final beam hits the center of your projection surface.
Feed the X signal to one speaker and the Y signal to the other.
You may need play around with the positioning of the speakers to get the X-Y axes perpendicular to one another.

Oren

matti <matti at devo.com> wrote:
> Get or use an oscilloscope. in X-Y mode, beautiful beautiful light shows
can be found. Try passing a lowpass filtered signal in the X, and the same
signal filtered highpass into the Y. Experiment with similar setups.

To get this onto a wall, for example, just use a video camera. Not
elegant, but it works.


enjoy


On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Magus Ship wrote:

> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with diy
> video synthesis? any tips?
>

-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?




From thescum at surfree.com  Wed Mar  6 18:26:48 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (thescum at surfree.com)
Date: 6 Mar 2002 09:26:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Source for Switchcraft plugs?
Message-ID: <20020306172648.14131.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net>

> Can anyone recommend a good (read: cheap) source for Switchcraft 1/4" plugs?  
> I need TRS (3-conductor) types.  I'm wiring up some 24 channel 
> 1/4"-to-1/4"snakes for my recording setup.

Last time I was doing harness wiring, I found the best prices were at Full Compass.  I don't recall the Switchcraft prices, but the Neutrik connectors were priced lower that a Neutrik rep could sell them to me for.

Byron Jacquot




From JohnS at molectron.com  Wed Mar  6 18:34:06 2002
From: JohnS at molectron.com (John Speth)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:34:06 -0800 
Subject: [sdiy] Opamp as a comparator
Message-ID: <9F36E0A056B6D04F81829A34832B9C1F418C45@mdimail.molectron.com>

Hi list-

I'm working on a quantizer project that uses a comparator.   I started the
design using an LM311 hoping to exploit the OC output for driving 5V logic.
I quickly found out that a 0-5V output swing results in an asymmetrical
hysteresis.  Now it's a plain old +/-15V comparator with positive feedback
for hysteresis.  I might as well have used an opamp as a comparator to save
the trouble of a pull up at the output.

My questions are: Are suitably fast opamps just as effective as purpose
built comparators in comparator applications?  How do I determine if an
opamp is fast enough for my application?

John Speth
mailto:johns at molectron.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020306/ec825ed3/attachment.htm>

From RFahl at extensis.com  Wed Mar  6 18:35:26 2002
From: RFahl at extensis.com (Fahl, Romeo)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:35:26 -0800 
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
Message-ID: <D5F7E5DF656DD511B99B0090274F0F9DE9BE83@EXTENSISNT>

A few years ago, Dave Jones was talking about releasing analog video synth
gear at some point. Don't know where he is with that, but his website is:

http://www.djdesign.com/

Be sure to check out the discussion on analog synthesis in the discussion
board.

R.


-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Richter [mailto:grichter at asapnet.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:51 AM
To: toughtech at dodo.com.au; synth
Subject: Re: [sdiy] video synth


Who is making the kits and PCBs?

I just got my modernized IP working again yesterday. Rex is agitating for me
to do something with the design.

I am wondering who, if anybody, has the guts and money to introduce analog
video products now????

Digital video has pretty much killed analog video. Try finding analog video
chips nowadays.

There might be enough interest for a small edition though.


> From: paul kimber <toughtech at dodo.com.au>
> Reply-To: toughtech at dodo.com.au
> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:04:37 +1100
> To: synth <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] video synth
> 
> Check out this site -
> http://www.audiovisualizers.com
> some interesting stuff, and kits/PCBs on the way.
> 
> cheers,
> Paul
> 
> 
> Magus Ship said at ?[sdiy] video synth?.
> [06/Mar/02Wed 17:06]
> 
>> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
>> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with
>> diy
>> video synthesis? any tips?
>> 
> 


From blacet at blacet.com  Wed Mar  6 18:51:36 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:51:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
References: <Springmail.105.1015434604.0.66794800@www.springmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C865728.36F5BC7B@blacet.com>

The image on the very bottom of the Blacet web site was generated with
an  x/y scope input. I think it was a ring modulator type wave but this
was a long time ago. I do recall that it was a fun diversion and I used
an SLR camera with fast BW film to capture the image.

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Wed Mar  6 19:26:05 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (oleavitt at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:26:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Opamp as a comparator
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.1015439165.0.80956700@www.springmail.com>

You might try the LM318 - this op amp has about a 50V/microsec slew rate.

Oren

John Speth <JohnS at molectron.com> wrote:
> 




Opamp as a comparator



<P>Hi list-


<P>I'm working on a quantizer project that uses a comparator.?? I started the design using an LM311 hoping to exploit the OC output for driving 5V logic.? I quickly found out that a 0-5V output swing results in an asymmetrical hysteresis.? Now it's a plain old +/-15V comparator with positive feedback for hysteresis.? I might as well have used an opamp as a comparator to save the trouble of a pull up at the output.

<P>My questions are: Are suitably fast opamps just as effective as purpose built comparators in comparator applications?? How do I determine if an opamp is fast enough for my application?

<P>John Speth
> <A TARGET="Link" HREF="mailto:johns at molectron.com">mailto:johns at molectron.com</A> 





From CHoaglin at aol.com  Wed Mar  6 19:37:27 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:37:27 EST
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
Message-ID: <133.a7516b4.29b7bbe7@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/6/02 2:59:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, matti at devo.com 
writes:


> 
> Get or use an oscilloscope. in X-Y mode, beautiful beautiful light shows
> can be found. Try passing a lowpass filtered signal in the X, and the same
> signal filtered highpass into the Y. Experiment with similar setups.
> 
> To get this onto a wall, for example, just use a video camera. Not
> elegant, but it works.
> 

 Cool idea...Is the result similar to lissajous, or something else? I'm 
guessing this guy wants to do a bit more than oscilloscope stuff though, like 
manipulating various video components individually maybe (luminance, 
chrominance, colors, signal mixing etc..) I've seen some amazing stuff done 
at noise shows by video artists but I'm not sure exactly what gear they were 
using. I know popular electronics had an article some time ago on building a 
video effects box that seemed pretty good, I'll look through my back issues 
and scan it if anybody wants it.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020306/4bd8f740/attachment.htm>

From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 19:46:53 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:46:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Env gen question
Message-ID: <20020306184653.77262.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi y'all,

On envelope gens like the MOTM, where is a "+" and a
"-" output, I assume the "-" output idles at 10v and
goes towards 0v as the envelope progresses. This is
opposed to being a simple invert where 0 to +10v is
inverted to 0 to -10v. 

Can anyone verify??

Thanks in advance,
--TR

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From bobo at decapod.net  Wed Mar  6 19:57:46 2002
From: bobo at decapod.net (Bob Roesler)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:57:46 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
References: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <007401c1c540$ce445c90$100400c0@killerobot.com>

I was introduced to analog synthesis via a home brew synthesizer designed by
Dan Sandin of the University of Illinois Chicago Circle. (circa 1978) He
made the plans publicly available and sold them basically for the cost of
xeroxing (tm) them. He still teaches at Circle and can be found on the web
at:

http://evlweb.eecs.uic.edu/dan/

I became re-involved in synthesis a couple of years ago as a way to control
an x-y laser projector as part off an ongoing photography project. I
contacted Dan at the time, and while he encouraged me to either investigate
a digital solution, or go with an analog audio synthesizer, he did imply
that he would help if I found no other way. Who knows, he probably still has
schematics somewhere, though he seems to be a completely digital lifeform
these days.

I would be interested in knowing whatever you find out in this direction, as
I wouldn't mind pursuing something similar.

Bob Roesler



----- Original Message -----
From: "Magus Ship" <elmystico at earthlink.net>
To: "synth" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 10:06 PM
Subject: [sdiy] video synth


> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with diy
> video synthesis? any tips?
>



From synth1 at airmail.net  Wed Mar  6 20:05:06 2002
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:05:06 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Env gen question
References: <20020306184653.77262.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001701c1c541$d444a860$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Incorrect.

Both "idle" at '0V'.

The '-' goes 0>>-5V>>0
The '+' goes 0>>+5>>0

Paul S.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Ressel" <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
To: "Synth-Diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 12:46 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Env gen question


> Hi y'all,
> 
> On envelope gens like the MOTM, where is a "+" and a
> "-" output, I assume the "-" output idles at 10v and
> goes towards 0v as the envelope progresses. This is
> opposed to being a simple invert where 0 to +10v is
> inverted to 0 to -10v. 
> 
> Can anyone verify??
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> --TR
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  6 21:10:55 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:10:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Opamp as a comparator
Message-ID: <F600PIqa9SMiF6C2fOY0001b78d@hotmail.com>

Having just completed a quantizer design that needed
a comparator (hysteresis was not possible) and having a
TL072 not be fast enough... and the LM311 is an ill-behaved
beast without hysteresis...

I used the CA3080.  Slew can be up to 80V/us...set by the
Iabc.  Worked very well, try it ;^P

H^) harry


>From: John Speth <JohnS at molectron.com>
>To: "'synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: [sdiy] Opamp as a comparator
>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:34:06 -0800
>
>Hi list-
>
>I'm working on a quantizer project that uses a comparator.   I started the
>design using an LM311 hoping to exploit the OC output for driving 5V logic.
>I quickly found out that a 0-5V output swing results in an asymmetrical
>hysteresis.  Now it's a plain old +/-15V comparator with positive feedback
>for hysteresis.  I might as well have used an opamp as a comparator to save
>the trouble of a pull up at the output.
>
>My questions are: Are suitably fast opamps just as effective as purpose
>built comparators in comparator applications?  How do I determine if an
>opamp is fast enough for my application?
>
>John Speth
>mailto:johns at molectron.com




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



From jlarryh at iquest.net  Wed Mar  6 21:48:54 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:48:54 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Source for Switchcraft plugs?
References: <20020306172648.14131.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net>
Message-ID: <004f01c1c550$54f85160$c02f2bd1@oemcomputer>

And as much as I like switchcraft jacks, once you have used Neutrik phone
plugs, you will never want to use anything else.
Larry H

----- Original Message -----
From: <thescum at surfree.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Source for Switchcraft plugs?


> Can anyone recommend a good (read: cheap) source for Switchcraft 1/4"
plugs?
> I need TRS (3-conductor) types.  I'm wiring up some 24 channel
> 1/4"-to-1/4"snakes for my recording setup.

Last time I was doing harness wiring, I found the best prices were at Full
Compass.  I don't recall the Switchcraft prices, but the Neutrik connectors
were priced lower that a Neutrik rep could sell them to me for.

Byron Jacquot






From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Wed Mar  6 22:37:59 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:37:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Env gen question
References: <B8AB3DE7.2AB4%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <3C868C37.8630E555@eunet.yu>

Peter Grenader wrote:
> 
> Don't know about MOTM, but the Doepfer's ADSR invert out goes from 0 to -,
> not from high + to ground, inverted like i wished to hell it did.
> 

that shoud be easy to fix, find the inverting opamp that inverts env
signal
connect trimmer from summing point to -V and trim to get 0 when env hits
it's peak (or max in - range) ie that sustain is at 0 volts (or whatever
you need), that's why inverters with manual offset come handy...



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From blacet at blacet.com  Wed Mar  6 22:43:52 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:43:52 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Env gen question
References: <B8AB3DE7.2AB4%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <3C868D98.9FC982ED@blacet.com>

The Blacet EG1 Inverted output is a + to ground type.

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From tom at tommay.net  Thu Mar  7 03:23:58 2002
From: tom at tommay.net (Tom May)
Date: 06 Mar 2002 18:23:58 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Env gen question
In-Reply-To: Tim Ressel's message of "Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:46:53 -0800 (PST)"
References: <20020306184653.77262.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E16inZW-0003h3-00@warpcore.tom>

Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com> writes:

> On envelope gens like the MOTM, where is a "+" and a
> "-" output, I assume the "-" output idles at 10v and
> goes towards 0v as the envelope progresses. This is
> opposed to being a simple invert where 0 to +10v is
> inverted to 0 to -10v. 
> 
> Can anyone verify??

No, but I can put in a plug for having an EG that idles so that the
sustain level is 0V.  I.e., just subtract the sustain level from a
normal EG output.  Why is this useful?  When you turn up the amount
knob on the filter the EG is controlling, you just get "more" envelope
without having the filter open wider during the sustain.  With a
normal EG output you have to turn the filter's frequency down to
compensate for turning the EG amount up if you want the sustained
portion to sound the same.

Tom.


From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Mar  7 13:55:30 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:55:30
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Subgenius
Message-ID: <20020307215538.GJKN16260.out002.verizon.net@mail.lan>

I have recently looked at the subgenius website and
found some MPGs in which some music is soundtracked
that could have come from one of us...  Anyone care
to own up?

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From tpaddock at seanet.com  Thu Mar  7 14:00:14 2002
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (tpaddock at seanet.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:00:14 US/Pacific
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
Message-ID: <200203072200.g27M0E203183@mx.seanet.com>

Simon Gatrall wrote:
> On the subject of DON'T TOUCH and video synth stuff, here's 
> a random link that I found while I was trying to find the 
> first one (mouth image controller!):
> http://www.mis.atr.co.jp/~mlyons/mouthesizer.html
> -s!mon
> 

I saw a demo video of this and talked to the guy a bit. 
One of those things that make your brain scream: 
YES, OF COURSE!

Weird, I followed some links from there and found a 
picture of myself.
http://www.csl.sony.co.jp/person/poup/research/chi2000wshp/photographs/index.htm
l
I'm the unidentified guy in the center of the photo...
"Right: Dominic Robson checking out Accordriatron 
demonstrated by Michael Gurevitch."

Later,
Toby Paddock




From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Thu Mar  7 19:43:28 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:43:28 -0500 
Subject: [sdiy] there's a new kid in town...
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DBD@lande11>

hi everyone,

mike's the name and i'm new here.  was recommended to you by this Lava / Mohorific Discontinuity guy... :-D

this is a test message.  then the questions begin...




From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar  7 20:09:22 2002
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (Trevor Page)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:09:22 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
Message-ID: <002601c1c60b$97bbed20$04a3193e@tb303>

Hi all.

I'm asking this to members of the list out of curiousity:

Where you live, how much would you expect to pay for a very good quality
printed circuit board, double sided and silkscreened, measuring something
like 200mm by 150mm, including the initial tooling costs, and assuming
quantities of 20 to 30?

I'm not really looking for any particular company recommendations - rather
I'm just wondering how production costs might vary in different regions.
Just after rough figures.

Regards,

Trevor.



--
trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 20:22:30 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:22:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] there's a new kid in town...
In-Reply-To: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DBD@lande11>
Message-ID: <20020307192231.29747.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Welcome. I'm Tim. Ive been an engineer and synth
diy'er for 22 years. I am  pretty good at hardware &
software, micro-stuff, and machining. My hobbies
include trying to get off my butt and get the next
project finished. I'm unemployed thanks to Osama Bin
Lardhead so I have lots of free time. My former
employers include HP, Agilent, and Alesis. My resume
is available  :-)

--TR



--- mveneziale at LandAm.com wrote:
> hi everyone,
> 
> mike's the name and i'm new here.  was recommended
> to you by this Lava / Mohorific Discontinuity guy...
> :-D
> 
> this is a test message.  then the questions begin...
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Thu Mar  7 20:46:10 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:46:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
In-Reply-To: <002601c1c60b$97bbed20$04a3193e@tb303>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071441090.30113-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Trevor Page wrote:

> Where you live, how much would you expect to pay for a very good quality
> printed circuit board, double sided and silkscreened, measuring
> something like 200mm by 150mm, including the initial tooling costs, and
> assuming quantities of 20 to 30?

  If I use my favorite local company to make, say, 100 boards, about USD$4
per board not including one-time tooling charges of about $225.  For 25 to
50 boards, $6 per board.  If I go have 2,000 boards made in Taiwan, about
$2 per board.

Crow
/**/



From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Thu Mar  7 20:58:57 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:58:57 -0500 
Subject: [sdiy] there's a new kid in town...
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DBF@lande11>

sure did!

-----Original Message-----
From: Moho Disco [mailto:moho at mohodisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:18 PM
To: mveneziale at LandAm.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] there's a new kid in town...


You made it!

Lava

----- Original Message -----
From: <mveneziale at LandAm.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:43 AM
Subject: [sdiy] there's a new kid in town...


> hi everyone,
>
> mike's the name and i'm new here.  was recommended to you by this Lava /
Mohorific Discontinuity guy... :-D
>
> this is a test message.  then the questions begin...
>
>


From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Thu Mar  7 21:24:10 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:24:10 -0500 
Subject: [sdiy] voltage controllers!
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DC0@lande11>

okay, now that this works...

i have recently purchased the Frostwave Resonator.  this thing is fantastical.  being an analog unit, it accepts external control from voltage controllers.  being a guitarist as well as a synth guy (and yes, this sounds really cool on guitar), having CV pedals would be ideal.  the trouble is, there aren't any "active" CV pedals out there.  they all control the voltage within certain instruments via TRS cables.  for example, Syntaur makes a CV pedal, but it only controls the voltage within Ensoniq 'boards.  you get the idea.  any company that makes CV pedals nowadays have designed them to be  passive send-return units - these pedals are not powered and cannot actively control voltage going to any particular analogue unit.

paul perry at frostwave told me how to control voltage using a guitar, a cable, a 9v battery, and a volume pedal.  seeing as how i'm running into a pedalboard with the resonator at the end of my direct signal (after volume, wah, and distortion), i wouldn't want to fool with voltage flowing through all of my pedals, which are already powered.

sooooo... my queries are as follows:

1. does ANYONE know if true active CV pedals exist anymore, i.e., those which can actually control the voltage going into a unit?

2. if so, where can i get two?  :-D

3. if not, does anyone know how to make one?

thank you!

-m


From synth1 at airmail.net  Thu Mar  7 21:39:05 2002
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:39:05 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] voltage controllers!
References: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DC0@lande11>
Message-ID: <001701c1c618$1f941e00$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Look at the MOTM-850 Pedal Interface at

www.synthtech.com

It interfaces with all common "3 wire" pedals from Yamaha, Fatar, Big Briar, Roland, etc.

Paul S.




From n0nspaz at mindspring.com  Thu Mar  7 21:43:47 2002
From: n0nspaz at mindspring.com (markus)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:43:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] voltage controllers!
In-Reply-To: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DC0@lande11>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020307153926.00cbe2a0@pop.mindspring.com>

the way i see it you either A. add another pedal to your setup (a custom CV 
pedal that you will make from an old spare pedal you have lying 
around...)  or B. mod your volume pedal so that that when you stomp on it, 
it switches into 'CV mode' ouputting the voltage that your resonator needs.

you can email me for help with either of these.

mark



>paul perry at frostwave told me how to control voltage using a guitar, a 
>cable, a 9v battery, and a volume pedal.  seeing as how i'm running into a 
>pedalboard with the resonator at the end of my direct signal (after 
>volume, wah, and distortion), i wouldn't want to fool with voltage flowing 
>through all of my pedals, which are already powered.
>
>sooooo... my queries are as follows:
>
>1. does ANYONE know if true active CV pedals exist anymore, i.e., those 
>which can actually control the voltage going into a unit?
>
>2. if so, where can i get two?  :-D
>
>3. if not, does anyone know how to make one?
>
>thank you!
>
>-m




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Thu Mar  7 21:56:23 2002
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:56:23 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
References: <002601c1c60b$97bbed20$04a3193e@tb303>
Message-ID: <00cc01c1c61a$8c24b5f0$0100a8c0@Tigger>

Trevor,

> I'm asking this to members of the list out of curiousity:

ooo

> Where you live, how much would you expect to pay for a very good quality
> printed circuit board, double sided and silkscreened, measuring something
> like 200mm by 150mm, including the initial tooling costs, and assuming
> quantities of 20 to 30?

each?
probably about 200UKP tooling, then about 25-35 quid each..

> I'm not really looking for any particular company recommendations - rather
> I'm just wondering how production costs might vary in different regions.
> Just after rough figures.

ahhh, but then I use PCB pool, they do a 'NON-Pool' service :-)

Paul
______________________________________________
"I've seen the light at the end of the tunnel, And its blue!'

Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com




From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Thu Mar  7 22:16:45 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:16:45 -0500 
Subject: [sdiy] voltage controllers!
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DC3@lande11>

that looks pretty good... i don't have any other MOTM doohickeez tho.  hopefully this will work.  i assume by "CV-out" pedals they mean the passive ones?

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1 at airmail.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 3:39 PM
To: mveneziale at LandAm.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] voltage controllers!


Look at the MOTM-850 Pedal Interface at

www.synthtech.com

It interfaces with all common "3 wire" pedals from Yamaha, Fatar, Big Briar, Roland, etc.

Paul S.



From gatrall at pacbell.net  Thu Mar  7 22:27:50 2002
From: gatrall at pacbell.net (Simon Gatrall)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:27:50 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
In-Reply-To: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <v04220801b8ad8a6d6c61@[64.172.21.178]>

>Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of homebuilt video
>synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on list worked with diy
>video synthesis? any tips?

Here's a really great site with a bunch of alternately cool and 
painfully dated video synth work:
http://scanimate.zfx.com/
(I first saw this on Analogue Heaven I think, you might also try 
searching the archives there for more video synth stuff)

On the subject of DON'T TOUCH and video synth stuff, here's a random 
link that I found while I was trying to find the first one (mouth 
image controller!):
http://www.mis.atr.co.jp/~mlyons/mouthesizer.html

-s!mon


From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Thu Mar  7 22:36:36 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (oleavitt at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:36:36 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] there's a new kid in town...
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.1015536996.0.74054900@www.springmail.com>

Hello Mike, Welcome to the List.

It's nice to see new members.
My name is Oren. I've been into analog synth DIY for 20 years, and into electronics in general for about 30 years.

> this is a test message.  then the questions begin...
Let 'em fly! The only dumb question is an unasked one.

Enjoy!
Oren Leavitt


mveneziale at LandAm.com wrote:
> hi everyone,

mike's the name and i'm new here.  was recommended to you by this Lava / Mohorific Discontinuity guy... :-D

this is a test message.  then the questions begin...




From synthdood at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 23:40:50 2002
From: synthdood at yahoo.com (ÚÚÚÚ)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:40:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
In-Reply-To: <E16iUdC-0002fa-00@hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020307224050.97869.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com>

Well, it isn't diy as in I didn't build it, but I've
created many patches for my nord micro modular that
produce many types of images when plugged into an old
c=64 monitor that I have. From shifting ghostlike
patterns to simple vertical line patterns... but I
still haven't figured out how to get color, only the
range of black white and greys.

If you've got a modular, try plugging it into an old
monitor with rca ins, jack the frequency up really
high, and start experimenting with different modulator
sources... I've gotten some really interesting images.

NNNNND

--- Magus Ship <elmystico at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hey all, I've been lured into the bizarre world of
> homebuilt video
> synthesizers, is there a video sdiy? has anyone on
> list worked with diy
> video synthesis? any tips?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From CCartCat at aol.com  Thu Mar  7 23:52:28 2002
From: CCartCat at aol.com (CCartCat at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:52:28 EST
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
Message-ID: <d2.14c3801d.29b9492c@aol.com>

<<If you've got a modular, try plugging it into an old
monitor with rca ins, jack the frequency up really
high, and start experimenting with different modulator
sources... I've gotten some really interesting images.>>

Um, just curious . . . does this work with TVs via game/ye olde computer 
adapters (the kind you'd use with a C64 etc.) or a TV/VCR's RCA video input?

Thanks,
Kevin Seward



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri Mar  8 01:10:53 2002
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:10:53 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020308001053.01228d40@popa.melbpc.org.au>


>> Where you live, how much would you expect to pay for a very good quality
>> printed circuit board, double sided and silkscreened, measuring something
>> like 200mm by 150mm, including the initial tooling costs, and assuming
>> quantities of 20 to 30?
...... about $400A tooling, then about $20A each.
Which is half the price in the UK, at least for the companies that advertise
in the mags. I am sure if you sought companies out, you could do better there.

But, if you can use Eagle, go to Bulgaria, land of the poisoned umbrella.
www.olimex.com

paul perry melb aust 



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri Mar  8 01:10:56 2002
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:10:56 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] voltage controllers!
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020308001056.0122ede8@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 03:24 PM 7/03/02 -0500, mveneziale wrote:
>i have recently purchased the Frostwave Resonator.  this thing is
fantastical. > being an analog unit, it accepts external control from
voltage controllers.  >being a guitarist as well as a synth guy (and yes,
this sounds really cool on >guitar), having CV pedals would be ideal.  the
trouble is, there aren't any >"active" CV pedals out there.  
>...........
>paul perry at frostwave told me how to control voltage using a guitar, a
cable, >a 9v battery, and a volume pedal.  seeing as how i'm running into a
pedalboard >with the resonator at the end of my direct signal (after volume,
wah, and >distortion), i wouldn't want to fool with voltage flowing through
all of my >pedals, which are already powered.

TRhere is some confusion here.
The modified volume pedal isn't used as a volume pedal.
It sits out there all by itself, with it's 9v battery connected to the
input, and the output plugged into the Frostwave CV input. So the battery
connected to the modified pedal, goes nowhere near anything else. And the
signal chain goes nowhere near the modified volume pedal. Which isn't a
volume pedal any more.

paul perry (Frostwave) Melbourne Australia


>
>sooooo... my queries are as follows:
>
>1. does ANYONE know if true active CV pedals exist anymore, i.e., those
which can actually control the voltage going into a unit?
>
>2. if so, where can i get two?  :-D
>
>3. if not, does anyone know how to make one?
>
>thank you!
>
>-m
>
>



From sysyphus at sympatico.ca  Fri Mar  8 02:48:42 2002
From: sysyphus at sympatico.ca (David Reichert)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:48:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
In-Reply-To: <002601c1c60b$97bbed20$04a3193e@tb303>
Message-ID: <000001c1c643$63e5d640$2f26e440@Sysyphus>

>From looking around myself, they can be had for C$70 tooling, C$30 for
each after. This is one place that was particularly low, most in Canada
seem to be in the same range as in Australia, maybe a bit lower as the
$C is a bit higher valued than the $A (at least for now).

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Trevor Page
Sent: March 7, 2002 2:09 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs

Hi all.

I'm asking this to members of the list out of curiousity:

Where you live, how much would you expect to pay for a very good quality
printed circuit board, double sided and silkscreened, measuring
something
like 200mm by 150mm, including the initial tooling costs, and assuming
quantities of 20 to 30?

I'm not really looking for any particular company recommendations -
rather
I'm just wondering how production costs might vary in different regions.
Just after rough figures.

Regards,

Trevor.



--
trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk






From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar  8 04:16:16 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:16:16 EST
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Subgenius
Message-ID: <ca.7baf08e.29b98700@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/7/02 4:57:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
music.maker at gte.net writes:


> I have recently looked at the subgenius website and
> found some MPGs in which some music is soundtracked
>   Anyone care
> to own up?
> 
Hmm..What exactly constitutes a "DIY sound"? While I do own a Bob Dobbs 
t-shirt and have been known to dress up as bob for costume parties, I'm not 
the culprit in this case. : ) d <----poor ascii representation of Bob smoking 
his pipe

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020307/fa6304a1/attachment.htm>

From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar  8 04:24:58 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:24:58 EST
Subject: [sdiy] voltage controllers!
Message-ID: <15c.9a60487.29b9890a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/7/02 3:25:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
mveneziale at LandAm.com writes:


> 
> paul perry at frostwave told me how to control voltage using a guitar, a 
> cable, a 9v battery, and a volume pedal.  seeing as how i'm running into a 
> pedalboard with the resonator at the end of my direct signal (after volume, 
> wah, and distortion), i wouldn't want to fool with voltage flowing through 
> all of my pedals, which are already powered.
> 
> sooooo... my queries are as follows:
> 
> 1. does ANYONE know if true active CV pedals exist anymore, i.e., those 
> 
> 
> 2. if so, where can i get two?  :-D
> 
> 3. if not, does anyone know how to make one?
> 
> 
Get a second volume pedal and run the 9V into it. Assuming the frostwave has 
separate inputs for signal and CV, you can just run the signal to it from the 
pedal board and use a seperate volume pedal with a DC voltage going into it 
to control the frostwave's CV input. Physically put the volume pedal on the 
pedal board if you like..

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020307/edc15781/attachment.htm>

From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Fri Mar  8 04:45:26 2002
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:45:26 EST
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Subgenius
Message-ID: <26.243b104f.29b98dd6@aol.com>

I remeber seeing a painting of bob dobbs reaching through the flames of hell 
to hand the viewer a glass of icewater, all the while smiling with his pipe 
full of stuff that would kill mere mortals!

I always loved that one, seems like a handy god to have around, I wonder if I 
can get a Bob candle at the botanica?

ed


From ka4hjh at gte.net  Fri Mar  8 05:12:02 2002
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:12:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Subgenius
Message-ID: <p05100300b8adea74dafb@[67.200.137.61]>

>I have recently looked at the subgenius website and
>found some MPGs in which some music is soundtracked
>that could have come from one of us...  Anyone care
>to own up?

Wasn't me.
-- 

The St. Dr. Oscar
The RatCave(tm) Media Center

"Inventing the Unknown since the Future Began" (tm)


From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar  8 05:59:25 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:59:25 EST
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Subgenius
Message-ID: <59.1898a286.29b99f2d@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/7/02 10:46:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
ElmacacoX at aol.com writes:


> I remeber seeing a painting of bob dobbs reaching through the flames of hell 
> to hand the viewer a glass of icewater, all the while smiling with his pipe 
> 

There's definitely some wonderful Bob art out there. Now if we could use the 
power of Bob to control a synthesizer without touching it, that would be just 
dandy. Seriously, though, check out Negativland's "Pepsi" album. I forget 
which song it is, but the reverend Ivan Stang (of Subgenius) does one of the 
tracks with them..one of the most bizarre records I've heard.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020307/bd12e0fd/attachment.htm>

From frankentron at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  8 08:54:24 2002
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 02:54:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Romeo oh Romeo where art thou?
Message-ID: <F121XymNMDdckHhP3460000dd4c@hotmail.com>


hi list,

I am looking to contact Romeo Fahl but seem to have lost his info. since I 
don't see his messages on the list anymore I assume he no longer subscribes, 
could somebody please help me out.

Thanx!!!

~M


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From pgrenader at mksound.com  Fri Mar  8 09:28:45 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:28:45 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
In-Reply-To: <002601c1c60b$97bbed20$04a3193e@tb303>
Message-ID: <B8ADC44D.2B2B%pgrenader@mksound.com>

There are many many options that you haven't addressed here that would be
required to approximate costing (I used to be a quality manager for a huge
US electronics company, and most of my work was 'watching over' our pcb
manufacturers).

Thickness of plating, type of sub straight material (FR4, paper based, etc),
type of solder mask (screened or photo imaged) whether you are providing
Gerber data or just film...that kind of stuff.

Email me as I have found a source for doubled side, masked and screened
pcb's at $30 a pop - but you HAVE to provide Gerber data - they do not
accept film.

-Peter



> Hi all.
> 
> I'm asking this to members of the list out of curiousity:
> 
> Where you live, how much would you expect to pay for a very good quality
> printed circuit board, double sided and silkscreened, measuring something
> like 200mm by 150mm, including the initial tooling costs, and assuming
> quantities of 20 to 30?
> 
> I'm not really looking for any particular company recommendations - rather
> I'm just wondering how production costs might vary in different regions.
> Just after rough figures.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Trevor.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk
> 
> 




From pgrenader at mksound.com  Fri Mar  8 13:14:43 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 05:14:43 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Littleman capacitors
In-Reply-To: <F82tKrUV0hCLwHc9ny700004143@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ADF942.2B43%pgrenader@mksound.com>

I just went through this.  Again, bare in mind I am a hack designer...BUT, I
work for a speaker company and what better source of info on types of caps
for best sonic performance than the guy who does our crossovers, right?

I recently built a filter and asked his advise on this subject and his info
was surprising to me, in regards to certain locations where you'd swear a
polycarb or polystryrene would be required where they ain't.

Why I am mentioning this is he taught me a trick that many of you probably
know, but some might not (I didn't):  I was having a dickens of a time
finding caps in my area (and I live in Los Angeles, go figure). If you need
a polycarb in a critical location where one of the spec'd value is cap (disk
or whatnot) and run a small value polycarp across it, something like a .01.
By doing this, you will get most of the sonic benefit of the polycarb.

I found this interesting. Anyway, I trust this guy.  Many many years at JBL
where he got a bit of a name for himself.

best,

Peter



on 3/8/02 12:56 PM, Jimmy Gogas at toothpick_77 at hotmail.com wrote:

> What type (electrolytic, ceramic, ...) of capacitors do you guys suggest I
> use for my Littleman synth project? The schematics have the capacitor
> values, but not the type.
> 
> the schematics can be seen at:
> www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/littleman/littleman.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> 




From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Fri Mar  8 14:43:24 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:43:24 -0500 
Subject: [sdiy] voltage controllers!
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DCA@lande11>

right... i knew about the volume pedal not being a volume pedal.  i wasn't at the top of my game when you told me about this.  maybe i didn't have my coffee or something.

come to think of it, it was pretty idiotic of me not to realize how simple this is.  paul, you are truly diplomatic for not ripping me here!  :-D

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Perry [mailto:pfperry at melbpc.org.au]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:11 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] voltage controllers!


At 03:24 PM 7/03/02 -0500, mveneziale wrote:
>i have recently purchased the Frostwave Resonator.  this thing is
fantastical. > being an analog unit, it accepts external control from
voltage controllers.  >being a guitarist as well as a synth guy (and yes,
this sounds really cool on >guitar), having CV pedals would be ideal.  the
trouble is, there aren't any >"active" CV pedals out there.  
>...........
>paul perry at frostwave told me how to control voltage using a guitar, a
cable, >a 9v battery, and a volume pedal.  seeing as how i'm running into a
pedalboard >with the resonator at the end of my direct signal (after volume,
wah, and >distortion), i wouldn't want to fool with voltage flowing through
all of my >pedals, which are already powered.

TRhere is some confusion here.
The modified volume pedal isn't used as a volume pedal.
It sits out there all by itself, with it's 9v battery connected to the
input, and the output plugged into the Frostwave CV input. So the battery
connected to the modified pedal, goes nowhere near anything else. And the
signal chain goes nowhere near the modified volume pedal. Which isn't a
volume pedal any more.

paul perry (Frostwave) Melbourne Australia


>
>sooooo... my queries are as follows:
>
>1. does ANYONE know if true active CV pedals exist anymore, i.e., those
which can actually control the voltage going into a unit?
>
>2. if so, where can i get two?  :-D
>
>3. if not, does anyone know how to make one?
>
>thank you!
>
>-m
>
>


From voltagecontrolled at cox.net  Fri Mar  8 18:45:24 2002
From: voltagecontrolled at cox.net (Buck Buchanan)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:45:24 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] voltage controllers!
References: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DC0@lande11>
Message-ID: <3C88F8B4.5000203@cox.net>

mveneziale at LandAm.com wrote:


 > 1. does ANYONE know if true active CV pedals exist anymore, i.e.,
 > those which can actually control the voltage going into a unit?


Yes, the DOD model FX-17 "Wah-Volume".  It has an auxilary CV output
of 0-5V from a 1/8" phone jack.  It's also an "interesting" sounding
wah that doubles as a volume pedal.  I've noticed they don't necessarily
carry it everywhere they have the more popular DOD brand stompboxes - 
this has never been a terribly popular wah.

I'm not sure how it works but I'm pretty sure it doesn't use a pot, is
relatively small, and approx $70.00USD (I think that's what I paid).

 > 2. if so, where can i get two?

Probably same place you got one. Bought mine about 4 years ago... hope 
they still make it.  Good luck on your quest!

Buck





From denshiblocks at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 19:10:25 2002
From: denshiblocks at yahoo.com (denshi)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:10:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] REAN 3 color knobs?
In-Reply-To: <B8ADC44D.2B2B%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <20020308181025.44430.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>


hi all!
i saw these nifty molded "soft touch" three color
knobs by REAN online awhile ago, but havent been able
to find anyone who distributes them.  the 2 color
version is in the mouser catalog, but i havent been
able to find the 3 color.  am i looking in the wrong
place?  thanks!

seth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From synthdood at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  8 19:16:48 2002
From: synthdood at yahoo.com (ÚÚÚÚ)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:16:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] video synth
In-Reply-To: <d2.14c3801d.29b9492c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020308181648.99089.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com>


--- CCartCat at aol.com wrote:
> <<If you've got a modular, try plugging it into an
> old
> monitor with rca ins, jack the frequency up really
> high, and start experimenting with different
> modulator
> sources... I've gotten some really interesting
> images.>>
> 
> Um, just curious . . . does this work with TVs via
> game/ye olde computer 
> adapters (the kind you'd use with a C64 etc.) or a
> TV/VCR's RCA video input?

Hmm.... not sure, try it! I did try plugging into the
rca line ins on a newer TV once and that didn't seem
to work right, it wouldn't pick it up as a video
signal, so it just sat on the default "line in"
(black) screen. I'm not sure if those rf adaptors
would work or not, if you've got one, try it!

NNNNNNNND

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From proteus at ugwarehouse.org  Fri Mar  8 19:56:10 2002
From: proteus at ugwarehouse.org (The Proteus)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:56:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] REAN 3 color knobs?
In-Reply-To: <20020308181025.44430.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0203081051420.6090-100000@shell.ugwarehouse.org>

Seth + All,

	I believe Neutrik either bought them out or is a US distributor
for Re'An. You can find some info on their web site at www.rean.com. 

Hope this helps,

Prot

- - - T h e  U n d e r g r o u n d  W a r e h o u s e - - -
- - - Subversive - Tools - For - A - Chaotic - Planet - - -
-  h t t p : / / w w w . u g w a r e h o u s e . o r g /  -
--<T h e  P r o t e u s>-<Musician>-<Producer>-<Engineer>--

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, denshi wrote:

> 
> hi all!
> i saw these nifty molded "soft touch" three color
> knobs by REAN online awhile ago, but havent been able
> to find anyone who distributes them.  the 2 color
> version is in the mouser catalog, but i havent been
> able to find the 3 color.  am i looking in the wrong
> place?  thanks!
> 
> seth
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 



From blacet at blacet.com  Fri Mar  8 20:32:31 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:32:31 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] REAN 3 color knobs?
References: <20020308181025.44430.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8911CF.5BEEE519@blacet.com>

Mouser can special order Re'an knobs. Up to 10 weeks and a minimum order
of ?????. We buy 500 minimum, so I'm not sure....

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From toothpick_77 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  8 20:56:40 2002
From: toothpick_77 at hotmail.com (Jimmy Gogas)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:56:40 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Littleman capacitors
Message-ID: <F82tKrUV0hCLwHc9ny700004143@hotmail.com>

What type (electrolytic, ceramic, ...) of capacitors do you guys suggest I 
use for my Littleman synth project? The schematics have the capacitor 
values, but not the type.

the schematics can be seen at:
www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/littleman/littleman.pdf



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Mar  8 21:39:43 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:39:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Littleman capacitors
References: <F82tKrUV0hCLwHc9ny700004143@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002901c1c6e1$610763a0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

The larger values with a + at one side of the cap are Electrolytic caps, for
short Elcos.
Best use normal elcos _not_ Tantalum elcos.
(Ceramic) Multi-layer caps are good for decoupling the power lines at the
ICs.
For very small values like 33pF you can use (normal) ceramic caps.

With all values you may use polyester types, for example MKT.
But in consumer electronics cheaper multi-layers are often used instead,
so you should be able to do the same.

Theo


From: Jimmy Gogas <toothpick_77 at hotmail.com>

> What type (electrolytic, ceramic, ...) of capacitors do you guys suggest I
> use for my Littleman synth project? The schematics have the capacitor
> values, but not the type.
>
> the schematics can be seen at:
> www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/littleman/littleman.pdf
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>



From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Mar  8 22:31:50 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:31:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Littleman capacitors
References: <F82tKrUV0hCLwHc9ny700004143@hotmail.com> <002901c1c6e1$610763a0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c1c6e8$a91ac220$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Just found the word "other" laying under my table.
Think it belongs here.
> With all <other> values you may use polyester types, for example MKT

From: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>

> The larger values with a + at one side of the cap are Electrolytic caps,
for
> short Elcos.
> Best use normal elcos _not_ Tantalum elcos.
> (Ceramic) Multi-layer caps are good for decoupling the power lines at the
> ICs.
> For very small values like 33pF you can use (normal) ceramic caps.
>
> With all values you may use polyester types, for example MKT.
> But in consumer electronics cheaper multi-layers are often used instead,
> so you should be able to do the same.
>
> Theo
>
>
> From: Jimmy Gogas <toothpick_77 at hotmail.com>
>
> > What type (electrolytic, ceramic, ...) of capacitors do you guys suggest
I
> > use for my Littleman synth project? The schematics have the capacitor
> > values, but not the type.
> >
> > the schematics can be seen at:
> > www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/littleman/littleman.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> >
> >
>



From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Mar  9 02:10:04 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:10:04 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Need help finding Tangerine Dream CD
Message-ID: <3C8960EC.974F5A98@silcom.com>

    I have been trying to locate a CD of Tangerine Dream "Cyclone" (I
have this on vinyl, I would like it on CD), but, so far, have struck out
100%.  I have looked several times on Amazon.Com, but they don't seem to
have it listed (then again, I may have just missed the listing).  Is
this album availiable on CD?...Reply off list.  Thanks.

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Mar  9 05:17:28 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:17:28 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Found Tangerine Dream CD!
Message-ID: <3C898CD8.C3A67083@silcom.com>

    Thanks to all those who steared me to a place to by the Cyclone
album...well, maybe I shouldn't thank you, you all did cause me to put
another ding in my credit card... :-)

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Mar  9 08:10:48 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 02:10:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Littleman capacitors
References: <B8ADF942.2B43%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <3C89B577.A3A79E84@prodigy.net>

There are places where a parallel cap can help you... others where it connot.

In Crossover networks you often need a fairly large value cap... often an
electrolytic.  These have quite a bit of series resistance and series
inductance...

Putting a "good" small cap across this can improve the transient response... the
lower
self inductance of the film cap will allow the leading edge of a rapidly changing
wave to 'bypss' the main cap. The overall capacitor value is only slightly
changed.

This is similar to the technique of using several different bypass caps on a
power supply.

If you were... lets say... to use multiple parallel film caps to get the value
you needed... it would work slightly better still... at probably 10X the cost and
size....
The inductance would go down drastically.

NOW OTOH... I would NOT use this technique of parallel "good cap - cheap cap"
in a critical application like VCO timing cap, VCF frequency determinimg cap, or
especially, sample and hold cap.  These need temperature stability, and usually
low
dielectric absorption.  Parallel caps can't help you here....   Usually the best
choice
is Polystyrene (if you can get the value you need) or Polycarbonate (if you can't
get
the polystyrene).

Polyester (Mylar) is 20x worse in dielectric absorption... bad where you need
high
performance.   I use Polyester in non critical applications all the time.

If you don't see temperature extremes, use long S/H times... you might never
notice the better cap....  ;^P

H^) harry

Peter Grenader wrote:

> I just went through this.  Again, bare in mind I am a hack designer...BUT, I
> work for a speaker company and what better source of info on types of caps
> for best sonic performance than the guy who does our crossovers, right?
>
> I recently built a filter and asked his advise on this subject and his info
> was surprising to me, in regards to certain locations where you'd swear a
> polycarb or polystryrene would be required where they ain't.
>
> Why I am mentioning this is he taught me a trick that many of you probably
> know, but some might not (I didn't):  I was having a dickens of a time
> finding caps in my area (and I live in Los Angeles, go figure). If you need
> a polycarb in a critical location where one of the spec'd value is cap (disk
> or whatnot) and run a small value polycarp across it, something like a .01.
> By doing this, you will get most of the sonic benefit of the polycarb.
>
> I found this interesting. Anyway, I trust this guy.  Many many years at JBL
> where he got a bit of a name for himself.
>
> best,
>
> Peter
>
> on 3/8/02 12:56 PM, Jimmy Gogas at toothpick_77 at hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > What type (electrolytic, ceramic, ...) of capacitors do you guys suggest I
> > use for my Littleman synth project? The schematics have the capacitor
> > values, but not the type.
> >
> > the schematics can be seen at:
> > www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/littleman/littleman.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> >

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Sat Mar  9 11:19:33 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:19:33 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] web site updates
Message-ID: <200203091019.g29AJXZ01113@dm.hotkey.net.au>

I've done a fair amount of updating on my web page
(http://198.164.142.50/~cgs/), including the beginning of an article on a
Serge I currently have here (under "history" Classic "Serge").  

There are also some new designs and PCBs available and restock of the old
boards as well, though admittedly, at least one of the new designs has
already sold out.

New boards/articles include expansion boards for the gate sequencer, Drum
and Chime simulators, CV mixer, gate to trigger converter and so on. Look
under "Modules".

Have fun.

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From pinknoiz at pinknoiz.com  Sat Mar  9 18:45:18 2002
From: pinknoiz at pinknoiz.com (Bob Gonsalves)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:45:18 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] EDN DESIGN IDEAS for March 8, 2002
Message-ID: <p04330102b8affa8e9064@[10.0.1.2]>

For the complete Design Ideas section in PDF format, go to
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1938.10.910807891

Frequent Design Ideas author takes home annual award
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1938.11.910807891

High-side current sensor has period output
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1938.12.910807891

Absolute-value comparator touts accuracy, size
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1938.13.910807891

Programmable oscillator uses digital potentiometers
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1938.14.910807891

Time-delay relay reduces inrush current
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1938.15.910807891

Optimize linear-sensor resolution
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1938.16.910807891
====================================================================
-- 
-Bob Gonsalves http://www.pinknoiz.com/



From t at introspectiv.org  Sat Mar  9 23:12:14 2002
From: t at introspectiv.org (Trevor Page)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:12:14 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Prototype 9090 - possibly FS
Message-ID: <000001c1c7b7$7b7a26b0$389f0551@trevor>

Hi all,

I'm considering letting go of my prototype 9090 if I get a reasonable
offer for it. I'd not normally consider selling a finished project like
this, but the cash would come in useful to get some new furniture for
our presently rather bare apartment! Besides, I can always build
another. 

So, serious offers are welcome. It wasn't cheap to build, especially
with all those Schaeffer panels, and it looks like I'll never get one of
those Maplin cases again. It's difficult for me to put a price on this.
However, I have a real TR-909 too and, unless I can part with the 9090
for something similar to the TR-909's value, I'll just part with the
TR-909 instead. 

The 9090, a TR-909 clone, can be seen via the URL below. Some large
jpegs can be downloaded. I still have a number of the PCB sets
available, too. 

Cheers

Trev

. .  .   .    .     .      
t at introspectiv.org
http://introspectiv.org/ 



From restate at restate.org  Sun Mar 10 02:17:38 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:17:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] elegant icebreaker
Message-ID: 111100100010101011010010100110TTAGGG

the time has come.





restate/rebelle.

prepare to want one.


one emergent attraktor breaking spektakel sotsietys ice. 

the pyroklastik protuberants.

doppelplus cool. 
doppelplus sharp. 
doppelplus crush. 

(oksitocin overflow)








http://rebelle.restate.org/

http://rebelle.restate.org/

http://rebelle.restate.org/


plus offitsial restate/rebelle anthem 'whats your name' by funkstorung.

(vor free)

(vor you)










ride my selv.

i am an opalescent tiger.

(i have many faces)




                        http://www.restate.org  ]

[contra mine your mind _>   infekt at restate.org  ]
[contra mine your mind _>   infekt at restate.org  ]



 
                  you can enter but you not can leave.
                    	
                  	
                  	
            .

                  	
           	
                  	
                  
                  borders.

				  (the feat ov evolutsion)

				  maintain them means maintaining the system.
                  
                  
              
              
              


  
              
                  you can enter but you not can leave.
              				   
              		
              		
              		
(gifts make slaves)              				   


From restate at restate.org  Sun Mar 10 02:25:51 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:25:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] thunderous transvormator
Message-ID: 111100100010101011011010001100TTAGGG

the time is now.





restate/rebelle.

prepare to want one.


one pyroklastik auviq breaking spektakel sotsietys ice.

the elegant endlosung.

no being comparabelle has ever been thought. 
no being comparabelle has ever been heard.
no being comparabelle has ever been seen. 

abtsolut never.

abtsolut ever. 






http://rebelle.restate.org/

http://rebelle.restate.org/

http://rebelle.restate.org/


plus offitsial restate/rebelle anthem 'whats your name' by funkstorung.

(vor free)

(vor you)















while fullfilling my funktsion i am unpredictabelle.

(turbulent vrom inside)






                  http://www.restate.org  ]

[affiliate program  >  apply at restate.org  ]
[affiliate program  >  apply at restate.org  ]


                  apply now. why wait. let me contamine your mind.
             


				  closed iratsional minds may be rejekted.

				  open ratsional minds may be infekted.  
             
                 
                    	
                  	
                  	
                  			                :
                  	
                  	
                  	
                  	
                  	
                  	
                  
                   i will perturb you.
                  
                  


(gifts make slaves)                   


From restate at restate.org  Sun Mar 10 02:30:39 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:30:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] mutant phenotype
Message-ID: 111100100010101011011110110001TTAGGG

eschatologikal end ov.





restate/rebelle.

prepare to want one.


one indivisibelle system composed ov interrelated ingredients.

the thunderous transvormator.

brandneuve.
eksaffektive.
totalrelevant.
abtsolutautark.
amatsingadekvat.
autoadaptabelle.
immensinnovative.
polydimentsionale.
eksaekspandabelle.




http://rebelle.restate.org/

http://rebelle.restate.org/

http://rebelle.restate.org/


plus offitsial restate/rebelle anthem 'whats your name' by funkstorung.

(vor free)

(vor you)








                  
            
                  
                  
it is the differents that makes the differents.








restate
/   /

state ov the art.



restate delivers high impakt solutsions using state-ov-the-art technology.








                     http://www.restate.org  ]

[ post your resume >    demiurg at restate.org  ]
[ post your resume >    demigod at restate.org  ]


 
                   specialised in providing superbe qvality.
                    	
                  	
                  	
                  			         .
                  	                .
                  	
                  	
                  	
                  	
           	
                  
                   i still have a lot ov entrepreneur in me.
                  
                  
                  
                  
    
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  learn.
                  
                  teach.
                  
                  lead.
                  
                  


(gifts make slaves)                    


From matti at devo.com  Sun Mar 10 02:55:36 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:55:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
In-Reply-To: 111100100010101011011110110001TTAGGG
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, restate wrote:

> eschatologikal end ov.
*snip*


Somehow, I'm reminded of that integer person on music-dsp and other lists.
Some of you will know who I'm talking about.


at least it makes for fun reading.

-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 03:31:49 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:31:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Atmel question
Message-ID: <20020310023149.9987.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

To all,

I have a question about the Atmel AT90S8515. Which
memory is useable for program store: Flash, EEPROM, or
both? I keep reading the spec sheet, but its not
healping.

Thanks

--TR

****************
Do The Hard Part
****************


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun Mar 10 04:25:48 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:25:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] elegant icebreaker
References: 111100100010101011010010100110TTAGGG
Message-ID: <001701c1c7e3$46157700$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

mmm, unless I confuse you with some one else: 
@Steim every thing is art, even gardening.
On the net OT is not art, just OT.
Maybe madam could go grow some more plants and leave this list alone?

Theo, 
reaching for his kill filter.


From: restate <restate at restate.org>

> the time has come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> restate/rebelle.
> 
> prepare to want one.
> 
> 
> one emergent attraktor breaking spektakel sotsietys ice. 
> 
> the pyroklastik protuberants.
> 
> doppelplus cool. 
> doppelplus sharp. 
> doppelplus crush. 
> 
> (oksitocin overflow)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://rebelle.restate.org/
> 
> http://rebelle.restate.org/
> 
> http://rebelle.restate.org/
> 
> 
> plus offitsial restate/rebelle anthem 'whats your name' by funkstorung.
> 
> (vor free)
> 
> (vor you)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ride my selv.
> 
> i am an opalescent tiger.
> 
> (i have many faces)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                         http://www.restate.org  ]
> 
> [contra mine your mind _>   infekt at restate.org  ]
> [contra mine your mind _>   infekt at restate.org  ]
> 
> 
> 
>  
>                   you can enter but you not can leave.
>                     
>                   
>                   
>             .
> 
>                   
>            
>                   
>                   
>                   borders.
> 
>   (the feat ov evolutsion)
> 
>   maintain them means maintaining the system.
>                   
>                   
>               
>               
>               
> 
> 
>   
>               
>                   you can enter but you not can leave.
>                  
>               
>               
>               
> (gifts make slaves)              



From philgallo at attglobal.net  Sun Mar 10 04:39:38 2002
From: philgallo at attglobal.net (phillip m gallo)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:39:38 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Atmel question
In-Reply-To: <20020310023149.9987.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIHDOCLEONAFFOKBAAEACCFAA.philgallo@attglobal.net>


The Flash is code store the E2PROM is for data storage.

regards,
p

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Tim Ressel
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 6:32 PM
To: Synth-Diy
Subject: [sdiy] Atmel question


To all,

I have a question about the Atmel AT90S8515. Which
memory is useable for program store: Flash, EEPROM, or
both? I keep reading the spec sheet, but its not
healping.

Thanks

--TR

****************
Do The Hard Part
****************


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.333 / Virus Database: 187 - Release Date: 3/8/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.333 / Virus Database: 187 - Release Date: 3/8/02



From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Mar 10 05:06:28 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:06:28 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Atmel question
References: <20020310023149.9987.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ADBC4.31EEBD38@silcom.com>

    Good choice of micro (I am using this one).  The Flash is for
program storage.  EEPROM is for data only.  The AVR is a harvard type
archetecture.  I am trying to find the time to finish my Midi->CV
firmware myself.  It is a nice little micro.

Tim Ressel wrote:

> To all,
>
> I have a question about the Atmel AT90S8515. Which
> memory is useable for program store: Flash, EEPROM, or
> both? I keep reading the spec sheet, but its not
> healping.
>
> Thanks
>
> --TR
>
> ****************
> Do The Hard Part
> ****************
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From ka4hjh at gte.net  Sun Mar 10 09:25:06 2002
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:25:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] SG review of recent list spam
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <p05100301b8b0c560dd53@[67.202.241.113]>

>Somehow, I'm reminded of that integer person on music-dsp and other lists.
>Some of you will know who I'm talking about.

Heh.

The web page takes two minutes to load in Netscape 4.77 and right when it's
done some javascript routine times out and jumps to a page full of HTML in
17 point text which I couldn't be bothered to try and read. I don't know if
this is a deliberate attempt to be subversively cool or if it's an HTML
mistake. Since The Church of The SubGenius(tm) just came up recently, I'd
like to point out that this is a classic violation of the sacred tenet "if
you don't have a sense of humor don't try to be funny"--figuratively
speaking, anyway. I just love over-pretentiousness.

You have to hit the back button to even see what's for sale, and of course,
after a minute it jumps to the other page again.
-- 

The St. Dr. Oscar
The RatCave(tm) Media Center, loosely affiliated with the original
Dallas-based Church of The SubGenius(tm)

"Inventing the Unknown since the Future Began" (tm)


From nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk  Sun Mar 10 09:32:20 2002
From: nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:32:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [OT] Re: [sdiy] mutant phenotype
In-Reply-To: 111100100010101011011110110001TTAGGG
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203100818070.2288-100000@yellow.csi.cam.ac.uk>

[Sorry guys, couldn't resist...]

> eschatologikal end ov.
> restate/rebelle.
>
> prepare to want one.

Oh, I "want one" ... what are you referring to?  And is what you're
offering what I want??

> one indivisibelle system composed ov interrelated ingredients.

Great, so I can't even see the damn thing when I get it (whatever "it"
is...)

> the thunderous transvormator.

Agreed .. I get the same after a heavy curry night with way too much beer.

> brandneuve.
> eksaffektive.
> totalrelevant.
> abtsolutautark.
> amatsingadekvat.
> autoadaptabelle.
> immensinnovative.
> polydimentsionale.
> eksaekspandabelle.

Me thinks you've been learning Esperanto..?

> http://rebelle.restate.org/
>
> http://rebelle.restate.org/
>
> http://rebelle.restate.org/

I think I understand why you call yourself "restate", as in "the bloody
obvious"

> plus offitsial restate/rebelle anthem 'whats your name' by funkstorung.
>
> (vor free)
>
> (vor you)

No, don't tell me, _another_ Kraftwerk clone?

> it is the differents that makes the differents.

A double differentiator?  If its analogue computing you want to discuss
you've sort-of come to the right place.

> restate
> /   /

Yes, dear, I think we've understood that point.  Do you mind moving on...

> state ov the art.

Which particular "art" are you referring to?

> restate delivers high impakt solutsions using state-ov-the-art technology.

Oh, it all makes sense now -- you're an out-of-work management consultant
trying to sound "hip" as a way to drum up some more business, or maybe a
fat new paycheque/job.  Sorry, we're all penniless synth builders here.

>                      http://www.restate.org  ]

Restate by name, restate by nature...

> [ post your resume >    demiurg at restate.org  ]
> [ post your resume >    demigod at restate.org  ]

Right, so you're a recruitment consultant?  Jeez, why not just say so,
instead of pissing me off with this nonsense!

>                    specialised in providing superbe qvality.

... and in dire need of a dikshunerry!!

Oop, here comes the line-noise...

>                   			         .
>                   	                .

!!!

>                    i still have a lot ov entrepreneur in me.

Who's the lucky one: you or the entrepreneur :-o

>                   learn.
>
>                   teach.
>
>                   lead.

Reading, writing, arithmetic.  Once you've mastered those, then you can
move on up the chain.

> (gifts make slaves)

Actually, its the other way round... *ahem*

And now, can we end this?  We had enough on music-dsp from "integer"
whatever.  Pissed off a lot of people too...  I just hope this isn't the
same person, or a wannabe.

Neil

--
Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::
http://www.njohnson.co.uk          http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22
----  IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk  ----



From esresource at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 10 09:56:35 2002
From: esresource at earthlink.net (Scott Evans, Gen Mgr)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:56:35 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8B1FC3.27D217D9@earthlink.net>

I just wish the @$$h01e mailing the list would disappear. Or could I
"restate" this better?

S.

matti wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, restate wrote:
> 
> > eschatologikal end ov.
> *snip*
> 
> Somehow, I'm reminded of that integer person on music-dsp and other lists.
> Some of you will know who I'm talking about.
> 
> at least it makes for fun reading.
> 
> -
> I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
> I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
> eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
> couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
> wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
> Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
> supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Sun Mar 10 12:46:59 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:46:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com>; from matti@devo.com on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 08:55:36PM -0500
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <20020310124658.A776@teaser.fr>

On 2002-03-09 20:55 -0500, matti wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, restate wrote:
> 
> > eschatologikal end ov.
> *snip*
> 
> Somehow, I'm reminded of that integer person on music-dsp and other lists.
> Some of you will know who I'm talking about.

Killfiled there. Killfiled here as well now. Sigh.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 13:30:00 2002
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (Trevor Page)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:30:00 -0000
Subject: Oh, no... [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com> <20020310124658.A776@teaser.fr>
Message-ID: <003201c1c82f$de8a2ca0$66e8193e@tb303>

Surely not...

Does anyone here remember that cretin female who spewed similar crap on the
music DSP list?

We could really do without our very own.

Trev



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun Mar 10 13:49:34 2002
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (pfperry at melbpc.org.au)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:49:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Oh, no... [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
Message-ID: <200203101249.g2ACnY519059@quoll.melbpc.org.au>

The really annoying thing is, I really want to read the specs. Has anyone managed to do so? Video synths are surely at least slightly on-topic... there can't be many listebers who don't want one ;D

paul perry (Melbourne Australia)
-- 
Message sent by Webmail from melbpc.org.au


From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 14:10:29 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:10:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Spam?
Message-ID: <3C8B5B44.B598499@globalnet.co.uk>

>  > eschatologikal end ov.
> > *snip*
> > 
> > Somehow, I'm reminded of that integer person on music-dsp and other lists.
> > Some of you will know who I'm talking about.

Same little turd that messed with the Kurzweil group too?

Regards
   David

-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk


From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 10 14:50:43 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:50:43
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <20020310225034.TZLI23097.out005.verizon.net@mail.lan>

>i am sotsially relevant.

Hmm.  "sotsially" :
of or having to do with a sot or with sots?

a "sot" is actually a drunken person who can't
seem to keep from soiling his or her own pants.

Keep going pal, your "soodoh-intelekshooallizm" is
far from being as entertaining as the most lame off
topic nonsense post ever sent here.  

Get your money back from whoever is selling you
your "kemikalz".  They aren't working.


=========================================================  

Is there any way to get this shank off of the list?

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Sun Mar 10 16:32:41 2002
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:32:41 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] thunderous transvormator
References: 111100100010101011011010001100TTAGGG
Message-ID: <00fe01c1c84f$fea45a40$0100a8c0@Tigger>

Dear all,

 can we remove idiots like this please?
one plug for a site is enough, 3 is takeing the piss!

Paul


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "restate" <restate at restate.org>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 1:25 AM
Subject: [sdiy] thunderous transvormator


> the time is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> restate/rebelle.
> 
> prepare to want one.
> 
> 
> one pyroklastik auviq breaking spektakel sotsietys ice.
> 
> the elegant endlosung.
> 
> no being comparabelle has ever been thought. 
> no being comparabelle has ever been heard.
> no being comparabelle has ever been seen. 
> 
> abtsolut never.
> 
> abtsolut ever. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://rebelle.restate.org/
> 
> http://rebelle.restate.org/
> 
> http://rebelle.restate.org/
> 
> 
> plus offitsial restate/rebelle anthem 'whats your name' by funkstorung.
> 
> (vor free)
> 
> (vor you)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while fullfilling my funktsion i am unpredictabelle.
> 
> (turbulent vrom inside)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                   http://www.restate.org  ]
> 
> [affiliate program  >  apply at restate.org  ]
> [affiliate program  >  apply at restate.org  ]
> 
> 
>                   apply now. why wait. let me contamine your mind.
>              
> 
> 
>   closed iratsional minds may be rejekted.
> 
>   open ratsional minds may be infekted.  
>              
>                  
>                     
>                   
>                   
>                                   :
>                   
>                   
>                   
>                   
>                   
>                   
>                   
>                    i will perturb you.
>                   
>                   
> 
> 
> (gifts make slaves)



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Sun Mar 10 16:34:22 2002
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:34:22 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Atmel question
References: <20020310023149.9987.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00ff01c1c84f$fff62ea0$0100a8c0@Tigger>

Tim,

> I have a question about the Atmel AT90S8515. Which
> memory is useable for program store: Flash, EEPROM, or
> both? I keep reading the spec sheet, but its not
> healping.

FLASH is for code (8k byte)
EEPROM is for data storage (512 byte)

You can ONLY run code from flash, NOT from EEPROM....
You can change the value of data in the EEPROM from your code, for example ,
on the monowave I use the EEPROM for storeing midi channel :-)

Paul
______________________________________________
"I've seen the light at the end of the tunnel, And its blue!'

Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com





From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 10 16:46:08 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:46:08
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <20020311004631.UCJO21585.out004.verizon.net@mail.lan>

I concur.

And note that this little brat thinks it's clever to 
use more than one address.  I guess it's time for 
"Gated subscription".

"J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh at iquest.net> wrote:
>OK, I just realized that all my "block sender" does is direct the mail
>directly to the deleted file.  I still have to download it.  Time to do
>something about this one I think.
>
>List admin??
>Larry H
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: restate mailto:restate at restate.org
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 6:25 PM
>Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
>
>----idiotic content snipped----
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 10 17:12:58 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:12:58
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <20020311011315.UQDO16260.out002.verizon.net@mail.lan>

I'm not sure if this is apparent to all of us, so
I'll post it since my address is already exposed.

Since SDIY is a list the will not broadcast it's membership
by command to majordomo, anyone who posts here exposes 
themselves to this jerk's ability to see us.

I've already made the mistake of posting.  He's got my
address.  He's kill-filed for sure, but he does have mine.

I think we can all also agree that even if the product
he represents is the best thing on the planet, not one
of us would buy it, or even take it for free, or heck,
take it with a pile of money stuck to it...

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From media.nai at rcn.com  Sun Mar 10 18:34:47 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:34:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] selecting muxes??
In-Reply-To: <200203101249.g2ACnY519059@quoll.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <v03130301b8b0f86c0c16@208.58.250.249>


I'm most familiar with the CD4000 CMOS series multiplexers.  Besides
voltage range, "break before make", and Ron, are they are any other
considerations??  Is there an advantage in using mux chips with a newer
design??  I've downloaded a number of application notes, but there seems to
be hundreds of various mux chips on the market.  Is there a particular
series of mux chips that anyone would recommend??

THANX!! :)





From Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 10 18:51:09 2002
From: Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk (Lincoln Fong)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:51:09 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Alesis Microlimiter
Message-ID: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFAEILCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>

Can anyone help me find a schematic for this old unit please? I plan to turn
it into an expander by inverting the control signal.

Thanks

Lincoln



From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 10 18:19:42 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:19:42
Subject: [sdiy] req : midi guitar info
Message-ID: <20020311021954.UHIF14047.out010.verizon.net@mail.lan>

I'd be interested in the comments of others...

The system I use does not produce analogue outs...  It's
a MIDI guitar system.  (and the question was about MIDI
guitar)

First, a whole lot of this has to do with how you play
it.  I've heard other people do stuff with my equipment
that I can't seem to do.  So I won't claim to be a good
guitar player or a good MIDI guitar player.  My problem
is having a ham fist, heavy hand.

What I can relate is what I've read about the system I
use and some things I've done to optimize it for me.

First the system I use is a GR-50 synth with a GK-2 pickup
system.

It is designed to approximate the pitch of a picked string
by measuring dv/dt for the first quarter cycle.  The GR50
synth will then start the attack portion of the sound with 
that rough pitch measurment.  As time goes by, more precise
measurment is made by cycle counting and the rest of the 
sound time is pitch corrected.  The MIDI messages associated
with this are a burst of MIDI pitch wheel messages (if MIDI
is enabled).  I wrote some software to analyse this data and
found that picking strategy is important.  

I have never found using this instrument very useful for 
recording MIDI messages.  There's just too much dirt.  For
me and my ham fisted wanker technique though, it is useful
(for me) to do pad chords.

As far as optmimizing it, I did this: (and I got the idea
from a guy's posting on some newsgroup)

I replaced the lowest 2 strings with ones that are 1/2 the
diameter (hence tuned up an octave).  This speeds up the
(ordinarily) late response of those strings, although it does 
require that you change the pitch programming of the sounds you 
use to compensate for the octave shift.  I also discovered that 
this almost "nashville" tuning is something I like...  But that's 
something else.

Make the string height to pickup adjustments as close as 
you can.

I hope that wasn't too off topic....




"criss m" <moog at sick.cl> wrote:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1C207.BA862E40
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>	charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>hi guys=20
>
>im back after some nice vacation :) and i was wondering if somene can =
>provide me some links or info about midi guitars (i dont know much about =
>it)=20
>but=20
>i dont know if there are units that translate a analogic signal from the =
>guitar (electric) and translate into midi mensages??????
>
>or if there other sort of midi gitars with switchs or sensors in the =
>bridge?
>
>i just build a  midi keyboard and noticed that ima keyboard fool.... its =
>hard for me , i think i'll buy piano for dummies....
>
>please help


=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 19:23:02 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] mutant phenotype
Message-ID: <20020310182302.28320.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

There is a fine line between informing and
advertising. Perhaps this is one of those folks with
an inability to "Elegantly mesh socially with his
chosen group". Speaking as a sufferer of Social
Lummoxity", I am prepared to cut people a little
slack.

So I guess this begs the question: Has this critter
contributed to this most excellent list in positive
ways?

--tr

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar 10 19:27:31 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:27:31 -0500
Subject: Oh, no... [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com> <20020310124658.A776@teaser.fr> <003201c1c82f$de8a2ca0$66e8193e@tb303>
Message-ID: <3C8BA592.27E7D281@prodigy.net>

Unlike our list, that can't even attract 'cretin females'...  well there
was 'Andie' that precipitated one of Bjorn's more memorable
raves...   ;^P

S-DIY... the true geek list... where there is absolutely NO CHANCE
of your membership increasing expression of your chromosomes in the
gene pool...

H^) harry  (and glad to be here !)

Trevor Page wrote:

> Surely not...
>
> Does anyone here remember that cretin female who spewed similar crap on the
> music DSP list?
>
> We could really do without our very own.
>
> Trev

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 10 19:31:13 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:31:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Info on old Paia stuff needed
Message-ID: <20020310183113.40174.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey all,

I have a old keyboard that I'm thinking of turning
into an poly organ type thing a la Paia Organtua or
Stringz & Things. Does anybody know where I can get
schematics on these beasties? Or other relevant gear
for that matter?

Thanks

--TR

*********************************************
Continued success is never a matter of chance
*********************************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar 10 20:15:26 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:15:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] selecting muxes??
References: <v03130301b8b0f86c0c16@208.58.250.249>
Message-ID: <3C8BB0CD.A040773D@prodigy.net>

The 4000 series have limited voltage range... not ideal for bipolar
supplies except with some dirty tricks (like +/- 7.5V supplies or
cheating on the negative supply).

There is also "charge injection" as a spec which relates to how much of
the command signal gets coupled into the switched signal. This can be
very important in S/H apps etc.  Less is better.

I used the Maxim MAX 308 and MAX 309 in a recent design and was satisfied
with the performance.  I'm also using the Siliconix DG444 (quad analog switch)

H^) harry

media.nai at rcn.com wrote:

> I'm most familiar with the CD4000 CMOS series multiplexers.  Besides
> voltage range, "break before make", and Ron, are they are any other
> considerations??  Is there an advantage in using mux chips with a newer
> design??  I've downloaded a number of application notes, but there seems to
> be hundreds of various mux chips on the market.  Is there a particular
> series of mux chips that anyone would recommend??
>
> THANX!! :)

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From restate at restate.org  Sun Mar 10 20:31:38 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:31:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100010111011010100010111TTAGGG

nomothetik nasty <nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

>[Sorry guys, couldn't resist...]

tragoedia incipit.



>> eschatologikal end ov.
>> restate/rebelle.
>>
>> prepare to want one.
>
>Oh, I "want one" ... what are you referring to?  And is what you're
>offering what I want??

savor eksakting, impatsient intolerant.

(love as passion)


do decide accordingly.



>> brandneuve.
>> eksaffektive.
>> totalrelevant.
>> abtsolutautark.
>> amatsingadekvat.
>> autoadaptabelle.
>> immensinnovative.
>> polydimentsionale.
>> eksaekspandabelle.
>
>Me thinks you've been learning Esperanto..?

the use ov language continually recontekstualises the epistemology ov the individual.

the act ov recontekstualisatsion allows a leap from one dynamik state to another.

(do you understand)



>> http://rebelle.restate.org/
>>
>> http://rebelle.restate.org/
>>
>> http://rebelle.restate.org/
>
>I think I understand why you call yourself "restate", as in "the bloody
>obvious"

it is easy,

(is ease desirabelle)

to see why humans are willing to fight to the death to defend the memes that constitute their belief system.

to allow a faith,

(or ideology)

to be overthrown would be to abandon a massiv neural fabrik into which you have invested an entire life.

a netverk that cannot easily be replaced.

perhaps that cannot be replaced at all.

(applied theory ov opportunity costs)

so there is a super simplitsistik solutsion, ov course.

(is simplitsity desirabelle)

invest into the restate nerve fabrik substitutsion funding program.

(now)

together we shall meet the test ov any cost-benefit analysis.

together we are strong.

Restate | Solutions vor your Neural Network.



>> plus offitsial restate/rebelle anthem 'whats your name' by funkstorung.
>>
>> (vor free)
>>
>> (vor you)
>
>No, don't tell me, _another_ Kraftwerk clone?

no no no, my monoton mikrolog.

http://rebelle.restate.org/whatsyourname.html

you may decide accordingly.

(again)



>> it is the differents that makes the differents.
>
>A double differentiator?  If its analogue computing you want to discuss
>you've sort-of come to the right place.

restate/rebelle. the elegant icebreaktrice.

0 digital.

1 analog.

http://rebelle.restate.org


adamant artverk on the right place.



>> restate
>> /   /
>
>Yes, dear, I think we've understood that point.  Do you mind moving on...

think big.

move fast.

surf less.

read more.

?do you understand, deplorabelle



>> restate delivers high impakt solutsions using state-ov-the-art technology.
>
>Oh, it all makes sense now -- you're an out-of-work management consultant
>trying to sound "hip" as a way to drum up some more business, or maybe a
>fat new paycheque/job.  Sorry, we're all penniless synth builders here.

it might be your codec is too too lossy.

you may use a lossless speech compretstsion algorithm which ensures that all ov the informatsion in the original clip is preserved after compretstsion.

communikatsion consists ov informatsion, transmission, comprehentsion.


so.

if the amount ov informatsion you wish to transmit exceeds the channel capatsity, then there are unavoidabelle and uncorrektabelle errors in the transmission.

(is this intuitive enough)

if the sender's entropy rate is below the channel capatsity, then there is a way to encode the informatsion so that it can be received w/out errors.

(is this surprising enough)

this is true true even if the channel distorts the message during transmitstsion.

clear as sun.

(my attempt to coerce your comprehension)



>>                      http://www.restate.org  ]
>
>Restate by name, restate by nature...

be my bisseur.



>> [ post your resume >    demiurg at restate.org  ]
>> [ post your resume >    demigod at restate.org  ]
>
>Right, so you're a recruitment consultant?  Jeez, why not just say so,
>instead of pissing me off with this nonsense!

knowledge is aksess to the unknown.

nonsense is the outkome ov every possibelle sense. 

(i am your pertseptsion manager)



>>                    specialised in providing superbe qvality.
>
>.... and in dire need of a dikshunerry!!

a strange thing happens when humans and other animals are concerned by the uncontrollabelle.

their pertseptsions shut down, their thoughts grow more clouded, and they have a harder time generating new solutsions to their problems. 

(fakt)



>>                   learn.
>>
>>                   teach.
>>
>>                   lead.
>
>Reading, writing, arithmetic.  Once you've mastered those, then you can move on up the chain.

ridicule rigmarole in rage.


i do forgive you.

(smile)



>> one indivisibelle system composed ov interrelated ingredients.
>
>Great, so I can't even see the damn thing when I get it (whatever "it"
>is...)

reading, writing, arithmetic.  once you have mastered those then you can move on up the chain.



>> (gifts make slaves)
>
>Actually, its the other way round... *ahem*

?tired of being so disorganised

(giggle)

my selv solicits you to do a turing test.



>And now, can we end this?

end.

(you ask, i answer)



>Neil

call me the entelechic clickclickchick.



>Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::

the purpose ov scientsia = annihilatsion ov the world







100K sedillas ov love to you my compossibelle.

(http://www.restate.org/100K)






From restate at restate.org  Sun Mar 10 20:33:48 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:33:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100010111011010110011010TTAGGG

Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>There is a fine line between informing and
>advertising. Perhaps this is one of those folks with
>an inability to "Elegantly mesh socially with his
>chosen group". 

i am sotsially relevant.

(coming in a shockwave)



>So I guess this begs the question: Has this critter
>contributed to this most excellent list in positive
>ways?

http://rebelle.restate.org

0 entertainment event.

0 dynamik design distraktions.

0 manic multimedia.

0 spektakular cyber show.

0 corporate final solutsion.

0 sale site.

0 mendacious monokultur.

0 digital.


1 elegant icebreaker.

1 analog.


(decide on your own)











i ek-sist.

wellformed.

elegant.

attraktive.


some time i will break.

__________________________________________________
Do You Understand?
The most fun on the web! Try it, you'll love it!
http://www.restate.org/



From restate at restate.org  Sun Mar 10 20:36:23 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:36:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100010111011011000110111TTAGGG

binary babbitt <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com> wrote:

>Dear all,

dear valued customer,



> can we remove idiots like this please?

idiosynkratik imbetsility imbued w intolerant invectives.

(clap clap)



>Paul

thank you for your continued support.

restate | free updates vor your software.


From jslandau at engin.umich.edu  Sun Mar 10 20:49:34 2002
From: jslandau at engin.umich.edu (Josh Landau)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:49:34 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
In-Reply-To: 111100100010111011010110011010TTAGGG
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020310144858.02847220@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>


>i am sotsially relevant.

Your web page is broken.

Thank you, come again.

Josh Landau



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar 10 20:52:21 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:52:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
References: 111100100010111011011000110111TTAGGG
Message-ID: <3C8BB975.5F41E223@prodigy.net>

Vlamevar brewing ???

H^) harry

restate wrote:

> binary babbitt <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com> wrote:
>
> >Dear all,
>
> dear valued customer,
>
> > can we remove idiots like this please?
>
> idiosynkratik imbetsility imbued w intolerant invectives.
>
> (clap clap)
>
> >Paul
>
> thank you for your continued support.
>
> restate | free updates vor your software.

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From restate at restate.org  Sun Mar 10 21:40:01 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:40:01 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100010111100010100011110TTAGGG

>Your web page is broken.

so will you and me.


>Thank you, come again.

as you like.


From psnow at magma.ca  Sun Mar 10 22:23:10 2002
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:23:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Info on old Paia stuff needed
References: <20020310183113.40174.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BCEBE.2AB4F2EC@magma.ca>

Tim,

Try this: http://omega.tellus.vallentuna.se/anders/pdf/pss.pdf

Regards,

Peter


Tim Ressel wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> I have a old keyboard that I'm thinking of turning
> into an poly organ type thing a la Paia Organtua or
> Stringz & Things. Does anybody know where I can get
> schematics on these beasties? Or other relevant gear
> for that matter?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> --TR
> 
> *********************************************
> Continued success is never a matter of chance
> *********************************************
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


From synthos at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar 10 23:10:53 2002
From: synthos at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:10:53 +0200
Subject: Oh, no... [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
In-Reply-To: <3C8BA592.27E7D281@prodigy.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com>
 <20020310124658.A776@teaser.fr> <003201c1c82f$de8a2ca0$66e8193e@tb303>
 <3C8BA592.27E7D281@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <a05100301b8b189f3e401@[10.0.0.150]>

Harry wrote
>S-DIY... the true geek list... where there is absolutely NO CHANCE
>of your membership increasing expression of your chromosomes in the
>gene pool...
>
>H^) harry  (and glad to be here !)
Me too!

I'm back again. I'm precisly 1394 emails behind.
But I'm glad this list hasn't changed a bit in any respect.

Repect!



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Sun Mar 10 23:26:27 2002
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:26:27 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
References: 111100100010111011011000110111TTAGGG
Message-ID: <004b01c1c882$9f5fe490$0100a8c0@Tigger>

All,

sorry, this idiot just got added to my 'BLOCK SENDER list'
Its a shame that one moron is unable to speak english, or to have the common
decency to behave like a human being..


Paul


----- Original Message -----
From: "restate" <restate at restate.org>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:36 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender


> binary babbitt <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com> wrote:
>
> >Dear all,
>
> dear valued customer,
>
>
>
> > can we remove idiots like this please?
>
> idiosynkratik imbetsility imbued w intolerant invectives.
>
> (clap clap)
>
>
>
> >Paul
>
> thank you for your continued support.
>
> restate | free updates vor your software.



From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Sun Mar 10 23:52:05 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:52:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] selecting muxes??
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b0f86c0c16@208.58.250.249>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203101746250.16635-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 media.nai at rcn.com wrote:

> I'm most familiar with the CD4000 CMOS series multiplexers.  Besides
> voltage range, "break before make", and Ron, are they are any other
> considerations??  Is there an advantage in using mux chips with a newer
> design??  I've downloaded a number of application notes, but there seems
> to be hundreds of various mux chips on the market.  Is there a
> particular series of mux chips that anyone would recommend??

  I've used Siliconix DG-series parts for 20 years.  In my opinion *the* 
analog switches/muxen of choice.  DG308A is quad SPST, DG309A is quad SPST 
with inverse switch logic, DG508A 8:1 mux, DG509A dual 4:1 mux (these have 
TTL-compatible control inputs even at +/-15V supply), to name just a few.

  Siliconix is now Vishay-Siliconix, and the 508/509 are superceded by the 
408/409.  Analog Devices also 2nd-sources many of the parts.  There are 
all sorts of DG parts in the catalog.

Crow
/**/



From restate at restate.org  Mon Mar 11 00:54:20 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:54:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100010111111001010101011TTAGGG

trivial machine <music.maker at gte.net> wrote:

>a "sot" is actually a drunken person who can't
>seem to keep from soiling his or her own pants.

a trivial machine is a machine whose operatsions are not influenced by previous operatsions.
 
it is analytikally determinabelle, independent from previous operatsions.

and thus predictabelle.



>Keep going pal, your "soodoh-intelekshooallizm" is
>far from being as entertaining as the most lame off
>topic nonsense post ever sent here.  

another universal one dancing to the universal rock.

take an adaptive walk on the wild side, dear.



>Get your money back from whoever is selling you
>your "kemikalz".  They aren't working.

i am just slightly ahead ov your time.

(while you are standing still in your slippery scope)


the z is dead, music.maker, the z is dead.








http://rebelle.restate.org || prepare to want one






From restate at restate.org  Mon Mar 11 00:54:56 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:54:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100010111111001011001110TTAGGG

monoton mikrolog <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com> wrote:

>All,

monotone,



>sorry, this idiot just got added to my 'BLOCK SENDER list'

d'accord.

it is all so easy.

(just one click)



>Its a shame that one moron is unable to speak english, or to have the common
>decency to behave like a human being..

ridicule rigmarole by a coprolaliac convormist.

(difficult word)



http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d0003867.html

(vor you)

it is about behaving as a human being.







http://rebelle.restate.org || doppelplus cool. doppelplus sharp. doppelplus crush.



From liquidcolor at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 01:12:47 2002
From: liquidcolor at earthlink.net (liquidcolor at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:12:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
In-Reply-To: <111100100010111111001010101011TTAGGG@icomcast.net>
References: <111100100010111111001010101011TTAGGG@icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <p05100302b8b1a61b35dc@[192.168.0.2]>

>a trivial machine is a machine whose operatsions are not influenced 
>by previous operatsions.

u r an ant!orp klone

>i am just slightly ahead ov your time.

no u r not

u r an ant!orp klone

>http://r3belle.r3state.org || prepare to want one

u r 0+1 poor salezman

u r an ant!orp klone



                        zo eazy....

                               \
                                \
                                 \
                                  \
                                   \
                                    \
                            ---------- ||||||\
                                      ----------
                                       \
                                        \
                                         \
                                          \
                                           \
                           ne1 kan du !t....


From restate at restate.org  Mon Mar 11 01:16:56 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:16:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100010111111011111110111TTAGGG

nomothetik neil <nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

>> (love as passion)
>
>But is "passion" a part of "love", in that "love" is a much wider concept,
>possibly including such things as lust, desire, friendship, etc.  Or is
>"passion" the all-embracing emotion?

love != lust

love != desire

love != friendship

it is the code ov intimacy.



>> no no no, my monoton mikrolog.
>
>Ha ha ha .. like it!  I'll add to it my web site!

i love to make you smile.



>> (i am your pertseptsion manager)
>
>:-)  Ok, no problem.  But, do you *want* to manage *my* perceptions?  They
>are somewhat "odd" at times...

it is my noise that will increase your fitness, dear.

(when fullfilling my funktsion i am unpredictabelle)



>> i do forgive you.
>> (smile)
>
>And apologies offered.

kairos.

(what a gallant gentleman)



>> >> (gifts make slaves)
>> >Actually, its the other way round... *ahem*
>> ?tired of being so disorganised
>> (giggle)
>
>Me?  I guess it depends on context...

we do live in a monocontekstural world.

(tertsium non datur)



>> my selv solicits you to do a turing test.
>
>I think I can manage Turing-powerful!!!

(relief)

thinking != computing 

(you know that)



>> >And now, can we end this?
>> end.
>> (you ask, i answer)
>
>But sometimes, the end is also the beginning.

it is my very pleasure.



>> the purpose ov scientsia = annihilatsion ov the world
>
>Ooh, trying to provoke me, eh?  Sorry, I don't take it seriously enough as
>it is :-)

gaya scientsia.


be my compossibelle.

be my compatibelle.

(you shall love it)



>And a googolplex of love back, my Scandinavatrix!!!
>
>Time for bed...

i shall dance to your circadian rhythm.




may your memes live forever.






http://rebelle.restate.org - the only website that has ever mattered because it is done out ov love and not out ov grant proposals.



From restate at restate.org  Mon Mar 11 01:25:18 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:25:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100010111111100111101100TTAGGG

trivial machine <music.maker at gte.net> wrote:

>Are you threatening me?

?have i been understood




>are you THAT stupid that you don't know what that might be?
>
>I imagine you are.  Rather, I KNOW that you are.
>
>Bye bye asshole.

it is a pleasure to listen to your soft voice, my banal dear.





still i like the way you look at my body.

(but)

just look.

dont touch.












make-up by restate (http://skincare.restate.org)

hair styling by restate (http://skincare.restate.org)

black long silk dress by restate (http://skincare.restate.org)

fishnet-tights by restate (http://skincare.restate.org)

silver nubuk stilettos by restate (http://skincare.restate.org)



(i am radically entelechic)




































surrender.







From jdm at synthcom.com  Mon Mar 11 01:46:31 2002
From: jdm at synthcom.com (jdm at synthcom.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:46:31 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
In-Reply-To: 111100100010111011010100010111TTAGGG
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020310164631.007a6100@synthcom.com>

At 08:31 PM 3/10/02 +0100, restate wrote:

>the use ov language continually recontekstualises the epistemology ov the
individual.
>
>the act ov recontekstualisatsion allows a leap from one dynamik state to
another.
>
>(do you understand)

Yes I understand - Mommy & Daddy didn't pay enough attention to you as a
child.  That caused you to do poorly in school, especially in spelling, and
led to a state of arrested development in which you desperately seek
attention in inappropriate ways and places from the wrong people.  This
causes people to ridicule you, which reinforces the immature state in that
it gives you the attention you crave at the same time it increases your
sense of inadequacy.

Get professional help now.

JDM



From restate at restate.org  Mon Mar 11 01:56:48 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:56:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100011000000000101001111TTAGGG

no input. no output. <liquidcolor at earthlink.net> wrote:

>u r an ant!orp klone

just a copy.

just a copy.



what a highly coordinated seqvents ov destruktsion.

you may kiss me, seksy.







>                        zo eazy....

?is ease desirablle







identiteit is only possibelle through differents.

(did you know that)




http://rebelle.restate.org _ just a copy


From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Mar 11 02:05:53 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:05:53 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <71.1bd42311.29bd5cf1@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/10/02 6:57:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
restate at restate.org writes:


> a trivial machine is a machine whose operatsions are not influenced by 
> previous operatsions.
> 
> it is analytikally determinabelle, independent from previous operatsions.
> 

This is sounding like something from Psychic TV/Genesis P. Orridge...as in 
"psychik youth" <---probably spelled wrong.

-Chris



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020310/d796c728/attachment.htm>

From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Mar 11 02:23:46 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:23:46 EST
Subject: Oh, no... [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
Message-ID: <66.1d5f31ab.29bd6122@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/10/02 7:50:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
pfperry at melbpc.org.au writes:


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The really annoying thing is, I really want to read the specs. Has anyone 
> managed to do so? Video synths are surely at least slightly on-topic... 
> 

That's what I don't get...They (whoever they are) seem to like posting 
bizarre stuff, and their webpage does some rather strange stuff...but the box 
it seems to be advertising looks pretty damn cool..but nobody in their right 
mind would use annoyance as a marketing tactic...it just doesn't follow..

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020310/0a3ef405/attachment.htm>

From matti at devo.com  Mon Mar 11 02:29:34 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:29:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] [AH] theremin for sale (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203102028590.20220-100000@whipit.devo.com>

I'm sure someone here's interested.

enjoy



-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:45:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Schwartz <perplectica at yahoo.com>
To: analogue at hyperreal.org
Subject: [AH] theremin for sale

I have a PAIA Theremax built-in to a chess set that I
am selling. It has some line noise when you plug it
into an amplifier, but otherwise works pretty well. A
bit of tinkering should fix it -- I am not a tinkerer
though. I bought it before I realized I don't have the
time to learn another instrument.

The Theremax has great controls including a
gate/trigger.

Looking to get $130 or best offer. Also open to
intersting trades --

MIDI controllers, maybe some analog effects or
electronic drum stuff.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Mar 11 02:31:31 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:31:31 EST
Subject: Oh, no... [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
Message-ID: <140.ad597b7.29bd62f3@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/10/02 1:32:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
harrybissell at prodigy.net writes:


> S-DIY... the true geek list... where there is absolutely NO CHANCE
> of your membership increasing expression of your chromosomes in the
> gene pool...
> 

I believe this is an example of an "inverse relationship"..The more you post, 
the lower your chances of chromosome expression.

-Chris (who just became single once again due to the computer fixation)


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020310/a1f688da/attachment.htm>

From jlarryh at iquest.net  Mon Mar 11 02:37:42 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:37:42 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
References: 111100100010111111100111101100TTAGGG
Message-ID: <001001c1c89d$57709060$66492bd1@oemcomputer>

OK, I just realized that all my "block sender" does is direct the mail
directly to the deleted file.  I still have to download it.  Time to do
something about this one I think.

List admin??
Larry H

----- Original Message -----
From: restate mailto:restate at restate.org
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 6:25 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

----idiotic content snipped----



From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Mar 11 03:00:05 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:00:05 +0100
Subject: Oh, no... [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com> <20020310124658.A776@teaser.fr> <003201c1c82f$de8a2ca0$66e8193e@tb303>
Message-ID: <006d01c1c8a0$77294340$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Seems she works at Steim (a "research" center for electronic "music" located
in Amsterdam)
Does conceptual art, the (ot) posts and unreadable WebPages seem to be part
of her personal expression.

The name she used at the dsp list she also uses as a normal artist name.
It probably won't be hard to find her snail mail address,
if she stays annoying maybe we could drop her a mail bomb over snail mail.

Theo


From: Trevor Page <trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk>

> Surely not...
>
> Does anyone here remember that cretin female who spewed similar crap on
the
> music DSP list?
>
> We could really do without our very own.
>
> Trev
>
>



From Echophazer at aol.com  Mon Mar 11 03:13:14 2002
From: Echophazer at aol.com (Echophazer at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:13:14 EST
Subject: Oh, no... [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
Message-ID: <11d.d6c60cb.29bd6cba@aol.com>

Actually a very nice person.


P. B.


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Mar 11 03:49:59 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:49:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] req : midi guitar info
References: <01c1c242$66e50640$LocalHost@wefwf>
Message-ID: <3C8C1B57.DB06B872@prodigy.net>

Do a google search for "Troubador Tech" and look there... they have a
LOT
of good info on all the commercially available units (ever made..)

You will need a hex pickup to do midi guitar. Roland makes one. I used
the
pickup from the G-Vox guitar to computer system. Last year Guitar Center

blew them all out for $39 for the system... I used the pickup and
trashed the rest.

There is a LOT of delay in a guitar to ANYTHING conversion... because
the lowest
guitar string takes 12ms for a full cycle (and it might take several
cycles to decide on
a pitch).  Try a commercial unit before you bother to try and build one
yourself.

H^) harry

criss m wrote:

>  hi guys im back after some nice vacation :) and i was wondering if
> somene can provide me some links or info about midi guitars (i dont
> know much about it)buti dont know if there are units that translate a
> analogic signal from the guitar (electric) and translate into midi
> mensages?????? or if there other sort of midi gitars with switchs or
> sensors in the bridge? i just build a  midi keyboard and noticed that
> ima keyboard fool.... its hard for me , i think i'll buy piano for
> dummies.... please help

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 11 03:52:44 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:52:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator & demo board
Message-ID: <20020311025244.56046.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

To all,

I have this Xilinx CPLD design I did for a Walsh
generator. It takes a clock in, and produces 15 sin
and cos Walsh functions. I am considering offering it
for sale, along with a little demo PCB which has a 8
(or more?) input mixer for summing the Walsh
functions. There are working prototypes for all this.
All thats needed is for me to get off my ample
posterier and do the layout.

So like, I'm wondering how many people are interested?
I have not added up the costs, but I'm guessing in the
$40-50 Dollar (US) range. Maybe less; i'm not trying
to get rich off of this.

Anyone interested raise your hand.

--TR

***************************************
Anything worth doing is worth overdoing
***************************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From lbuppii at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 11 03:54:53 2002
From: lbuppii at hotmail.com (Lewis Bupp)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:54:53 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Shepard Function Gen's
Message-ID: <F145dStaJAyBCsAnget0000fd2c@hotmail.com>

Many years ago, Paia sold a Sheppard (SP??) Function Generator kit or IC. 
They no longer sell the chip. IS the chip still manufactured? If not, does 
anyone know of a circuit that will approximate the same effect?

Lew

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 11 03:56:42 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:56:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Top-octave CPLD
Message-ID: <20020311025642.18625.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

That reminds me: I am thinkin about doing a top-octave
CPLD. I'd be a non-direct replacement for the old
Mostek 50240 part. I may even be able to do the 70/30
option. No promises, but hey, I'm good at this. May
have to be 2 chips for the 70/30 option.

Anyone interested?

--TR


******************************
My old man taught me: Best way 
to keep an erection is don't
screw with it!
******************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From psnow at magma.ca  Mon Mar 11 04:19:57 2002
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:19:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] req : midi guitar info
References: <01c1c242$66e50640$LocalHost@wefwf>
Message-ID: <3C8C225D.C3E84415@magma.ca>

Criss,

Try this group.  There's lots of discussion of MIDI guitar, though not so technical as this list.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midiguitar/

Regards,

Peter


> criss m wrote:
> 
> hi guys
> 
> im back after some nice vacation :) and i was wondering if somene can provide me some links or
> info about midi guitars (i dont know much about it)
> but
> i dont know if there are units that translate a analogic signal from the guitar (electric) and
> translate into midi mensages??????
> 
> or if there other sort of midi gitars with switchs or sensors in the bridge?
> 
> i just build a  midi keyboard and noticed that ima keyboard fool.... its hard for me , i think
> i'll buy piano for dummies....
> 
> please help
>


From adam at hoodmusic.net  Mon Mar 11 04:37:24 2002
From: adam at hoodmusic.net (adam at hoodmusic.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:37:24 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Shepard Function Gen's
References: <F145dStaJAyBCsAnget0000fd2c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C2674.FC419D3F@hoodmusic.net>

Hi
    I think it is mostly CD4000 series CMOS and some opamps, all easily
attainable. The schematic and article are available at
http://machines.hyperreal.org in the diy section.

adam

Lewis Bupp wrote:

> Many years ago, Paia sold a Sheppard (SP??) Function Generator kit or IC.
> They no longer sell the chip. IS the chip still manufactured? If not, does
> anyone know of a circuit that will approximate the same effect?
>
> Lew
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Mar 11 04:49:54 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:49:54 -0500
Subject: Oh, no... [sdiy] mutant phenotype [ot]
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203092054030.13310-100000@whipit.devo.com> <20020310124658.A776@teaser.fr> <003201c1c82f$de8a2ca0$66e8193e@tb303> <006d01c1c8a0$77294340$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C2962.614A0EEF@prodigy.net>

Theo wrote:

> Seems she...  <snip>

she ?  SHE ???   ;^P

What in god's green earth are you guys KILL FILTERING her for then...

Its the internet so you can't say its 'cause she's ugly' ... who cares ?

A FEMALE you say... ?

And you're all annoyed that she's saying and doing INCOMPREHENSIBLE
things ???

(shit.. as Lenny Bruce once said "I associate that with any woman I would know,
would love, or would marry....)

ooooh... can we keep her, can we keep her ???

<bfg>

H^) harry  (probably now - headed for your kill filters as well....)




From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Mar 11 04:54:19 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:54:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Shepard Function Gen's
References: <F145dStaJAyBCsAnget0000fd2c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C2A6B.2FB7C5D8@silcom.com>

    It was actually a circuit...It was published in an old issue of Polyphony
(late 70's to early 80's).  If nobody else can come up with something that is
already on the web, I can scan the article and send it to you.

Lewis Bupp wrote:

> Many years ago, Paia sold a Sheppard (SP??) Function Generator kit or IC.
> They no longer sell the chip. IS the chip still manufactured? If not, does
> anyone know of a circuit that will approximate the same effect?
>
> Lew
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Mar 11 04:59:09 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:59:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Top-octave CPLD
References: <20020311025642.18625.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8C2B8D.FBDDBFBB@silcom.com>

    This is something I have been wanting to do as well, but, just can't
seem to get around to it.  I tried to put one in an XC4003, although,
not an exact replacement.  I started with a higher clock to attempt to
get more acurate frequencies, but it wouldn't fit...

    The only problem for me in expressing interest is I really should
not be making any unessesary expenditures...

Tim Ressel wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> That reminds me: I am thinkin about doing a top-octave
> CPLD. I'd be a non-direct replacement for the old
> Mostek 50240 part. I may even be able to do the 70/30
> option. No promises, but hey, I'm good at this. May
> have to be 2 chips for the 70/30 option.
>
> Anyone interested?
>
> --TR
>
> ******************************
> My old man taught me: Best way
> to keep an erection is don't
> screw with it!
> ******************************
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Mar 11 05:14:41 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:14:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] req : midi guitar info
References: <20020311021954.UHIF14047.out010.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <3C8C2F31.28AEB50F@prodigy.net>

Hi Scott (et al)

I have had the same results as Scott. The octave switch of the two low
strings is a really good (if not original) solution. Several commercial
units did the same...  there was a "high strung" version of the Photon
Midi Interface... and a Yamaha "guitar controller" that used all high
E strings tuned to unison.

Scott's solution is probably the most practical and closest to a "real
guitar".

I used to use the Roland GM-70 system... you could count on about a 30ms
delay. I used a digital delay on the guitar output to "time align" the synth
and
guitar attack. This works... but you cannot listen to yourself without
confusion...
and the drummer would watch me for the beat (a good idea.. he's eliminating
another delay as my sound reaches his ears..) but my actions were 30ms in front

of the sound... and he KNEW it....

I've just finished (and I use the term as Eduardo "elmacacoX" does... finished
until tomorrow when I modify it again ;^)  a hex guitar project. I use direct
waveshaping on the guitar strings themselves... then process with VCF, VCA
etc. Its a fully polyphonic approach that has the advantage of no delay. Of
course
it cannot sustain forever... but it does for a long time....

Trying to approximate the pitch for the first quarter cycle is probably not too
reliable..
the attack transient of the guitar is going to spoil that.  You might be able
to play
a quarter cycle of any midi note (within an octave  ;^)  for a short time
before your
brain can process it. Sounds with slow attack will mask the uncertainty anyway.

The Axon measures the time it takes for the pick transient to reflect off the
fret position... this can be faster as its really not measuring the
vibration... but the speed
of sound in steel. It is said to be pick sensitive as well.

I use the method of the "Gold" patent (New England Digital - Synthclavier) for
pitch
extraction... I saw the ads featuring Pat Metheny with the system. If its good
enough for Pat its good enough for me. Two caveats...

1)  My techinque (while good - teehee) is NOT in a class with Mr. Metheny...

~and~

2) I've been informed that while he posed for pictures as a Synthclavier
endorsee...
that his solos were actually recorded with the GR-30 (an all analog system
which uses the guitar strings as a sync source as well... minimizing delay and
error)

Midi guitar is still the Holy Grail as far as I'm concerned...

(now Midi Theremin... that we can do  ;^)

H^) harry

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> I'd be interested in the comments of others...
>
> The system I use does not produce analogue outs...  It's
> a MIDI guitar system.  (and the question was about MIDI
> guitar)
>
> First, a whole lot of this has to do with how you play
> it.  I've heard other people do stuff with my equipment
> that I can't seem to do.  So I won't claim to be a good
> guitar player or a good MIDI guitar player.  My problem
> is having a ham fist, heavy hand.
>
> What I can relate is what I've read about the system I
> use and some things I've done to optimize it for me.
>
> First the system I use is a GR-50 synth with a GK-2 pickup
> system.
>
> It is designed to approximate the pitch of a picked string
> by measuring dv/dt for the first quarter cycle.  The GR50
> synth will then start the attack portion of the sound with
> that rough pitch measurment.  As time goes by, more precise
> measurment is made by cycle counting and the rest of the
> sound time is pitch corrected.  The MIDI messages associated
> with this are a burst of MIDI pitch wheel messages (if MIDI
> is enabled).  I wrote some software to analyse this data and
> found that picking strategy is important.
>
> I have never found using this instrument very useful for
> recording MIDI messages.  There's just too much dirt.  For
> me and my ham fisted wanker technique though, it is useful
> (for me) to do pad chords.
>
> As far as optmimizing it, I did this: (and I got the idea
> from a guy's posting on some newsgroup)
>
> I replaced the lowest 2 strings with ones that are 1/2 the
> diameter (hence tuned up an octave).  This speeds up the
> (ordinarily) late response of those strings, although it does
> require that you change the pitch programming of the sounds you
> use to compensate for the octave shift.  I also discovered that
> this almost "nashville" tuning is something I like...  But that's
> something else.
>
> Make the string height to pickup adjustments as close as
> you can.
>
> I hope that wasn't too off topic....
>
> "criss m" <moog at sick.cl> wrote:
> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >
> >------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1C207.BA862E40
> >Content-Type: text/plain;
> >       charset="iso-8859-1"
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> >hi guys=20
> >
> >im back after some nice vacation :) and i was wondering if somene can =
> >provide me some links or info about midi guitars (i dont know much about =
> >it)=20
> >but=20
> >i dont know if there are units that translate a analogic signal from the =
> >guitar (electric) and translate into midi mensages??????
> >
> >or if there other sort of midi gitars with switchs or sensors in the =
> >bridge?
> >
> >i just build a  midi keyboard and noticed that ima keyboard fool.... its =
> >hard for me , i think i'll buy piano for dummies....
> >
> >please help
>
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From moho at mohodisco.com  Mon Mar 11 05:50:45 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:50:45 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] req : midi guitar info
In-Reply-To: <3C8C2F31.28AEB50F@prodigy.net>
References: <20020311021954.UHIF14047.out010.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310204945.0220a458@mohodisco.com>

I have an Axon AX-100, and it basically tracked in real-time for me.

But in the end, playing my synths with my guitar just didn't feel
quite right.

So my Axon is for sale if anyone is interested.

Lava

At 23:14 3/10/2002 -0500, harry wrote:
>Hi Scott (et al)
>
>I have had the same results as Scott. The octave switch of the two low
>strings is a really good (if not original) solution. Several commercial
>units did the same...  there was a "high strung" version of the Photon
>Midi Interface... and a Yamaha "guitar controller" that used all high
>E strings tuned to unison.
>
>Scott's solution is probably the most practical and closest to a "real
>guitar".
>
>I used to use the Roland GM-70 system... you could count on about a 30ms
>delay. I used a digital delay on the guitar output to "time align" the synth
>and
>guitar attack. This works... but you cannot listen to yourself without
>confusion...
>and the drummer would watch me for the beat (a good idea.. he's eliminating
>another delay as my sound reaches his ears..) but my actions were 30ms in 
>front
>
>of the sound... and he KNEW it....
>
>I've just finished (and I use the term as Eduardo "elmacacoX" does... finished
>until tomorrow when I modify it again ;^)  a hex guitar project. I use direct
>waveshaping on the guitar strings themselves... then process with VCF, VCA
>etc. Its a fully polyphonic approach that has the advantage of no delay. Of
>course
>it cannot sustain forever... but it does for a long time....
>
>Trying to approximate the pitch for the first quarter cycle is probably 
>not too
>reliable..
>the attack transient of the guitar is going to spoil that.  You might be able
>to play
>a quarter cycle of any midi note (within an octave  ;^)  for a short time
>before your
>brain can process it. Sounds with slow attack will mask the uncertainty 
>anyway.
>
>The Axon measures the time it takes for the pick transient to reflect off the
>fret position... this can be faster as its really not measuring the
>vibration... but the speed
>of sound in steel. It is said to be pick sensitive as well.
>
>I use the method of the "Gold" patent (New England Digital - Synthclavier) for
>pitch
>extraction... I saw the ads featuring Pat Metheny with the system. If its good
>enough for Pat its good enough for me. Two caveats...
>
>1)  My techinque (while good - teehee) is NOT in a class with Mr. Metheny...
>
>~and~
>
>2) I've been informed that while he posed for pictures as a Synthclavier
>endorsee...
>that his solos were actually recorded with the GR-30 (an all analog system
>which uses the guitar strings as a sync source as well... minimizing delay and
>error)
>
>Midi guitar is still the Holy Grail as far as I'm concerned...
>
>(now Midi Theremin... that we can do  ;^)
>
>H^) harry
>
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
> > I'd be interested in the comments of others...
> >
> > The system I use does not produce analogue outs...  It's
> > a MIDI guitar system.  (and the question was about MIDI
> > guitar)
> >
> > First, a whole lot of this has to do with how you play
> > it.  I've heard other people do stuff with my equipment
> > that I can't seem to do.  So I won't claim to be a good
> > guitar player or a good MIDI guitar player.  My problem
> > is having a ham fist, heavy hand.
> >
> > What I can relate is what I've read about the system I
> > use and some things I've done to optimize it for me.
> >
> > First the system I use is a GR-50 synth with a GK-2 pickup
> > system.
> >
> > It is designed to approximate the pitch of a picked string
> > by measuring dv/dt for the first quarter cycle.  The GR50
> > synth will then start the attack portion of the sound with
> > that rough pitch measurment.  As time goes by, more precise
> > measurment is made by cycle counting and the rest of the
> > sound time is pitch corrected.  The MIDI messages associated
> > with this are a burst of MIDI pitch wheel messages (if MIDI
> > is enabled).  I wrote some software to analyse this data and
> > found that picking strategy is important.
> >
> > I have never found using this instrument very useful for
> > recording MIDI messages.  There's just too much dirt.  For
> > me and my ham fisted wanker technique though, it is useful
> > (for me) to do pad chords.
> >
> > As far as optmimizing it, I did this: (and I got the idea
> > from a guy's posting on some newsgroup)
> >
> > I replaced the lowest 2 strings with ones that are 1/2 the
> > diameter (hence tuned up an octave).  This speeds up the
> > (ordinarily) late response of those strings, although it does
> > require that you change the pitch programming of the sounds you
> > use to compensate for the octave shift.  I also discovered that
> > this almost "nashville" tuning is something I like...  But that's
> > something else.
> >
> > Make the string height to pickup adjustments as close as
> > you can.
> >
> > I hope that wasn't too off topic....
> >
> > "criss m" <moog at sick.cl> wrote:
> > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> > >
> > >------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1C207.BA862E40
> > >Content-Type: text/plain;
> > >       charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > >
> > >hi guys=20
> > >
> > >im back after some nice vacation :) and i was wondering if somene can =
> > >provide me some links or info about midi guitars (i dont know much about =
> > >it)=20
> > >but=20
> > >i dont know if there are units that translate a analogic signal from the =
> > >guitar (electric) and translate into midi mensages??????
> > >
> > >or if there other sort of midi gitars with switchs or sensors in the =
> > >bridge?
> > >
> > >i just build a  midi keyboard and noticed that ima keyboard fool.... its =
> > >hard for me , i think i'll buy piano for dummies....
> > >
> > >please help
> >
> > =========================================================
> > - Government: The other religion.
> > - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> > - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
> >
> > -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> > -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> > -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> > -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>
>--
>Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
>Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
>Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
>go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
>hide... how about YOU ???



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 11 05:53:06 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Top-octave CPLD: News
In-Reply-To: <20020311025642.18625.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020311045306.60023.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>

To whom it may concern,

It looks like the TOG will not quite fit into a single
XC95108. So if this happens at all, it will have to be
a pair of XC9572s. These are 44-pin PLCCs, and most of
the pins will be unused.

I think this effort will need some sort of PCB to
stick the ICs to.

--tr

**************************
Am I on fire? Be honest...
**************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From kmartinez at bency.com  Mon Mar 11 06:29:16 2002
From: kmartinez at bency.com (Kenneth Martinez)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:29:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Minimoog EG power question
Message-ID: <3C8C40AC.4C2F2A13@bency.com>

I've built a Minimoog VCF and VCA using the schematics from the service
manual.  I've got a commercial +/15V linear power supply, and made a
+/-10V power supply on the VCF/VCA board that runs off the 15V power.  I
am now starting on the envelope generators.  These are powered by a
voltage follower (+15V unregulated into the collector, +10V regulated to
the base, giving +9.3V at the emitter) which the service manual explains
is needed because of 10ma charging spikes for the 10uF timing caps.  I
don't think I want to foul up my clean 15V power with these charging
spikes.

Can I instead add a nice large capacitor on the EG board to buffer the
10V power and use that directly?  Anyone built or breadboarded the
Mini's EGs and have an idea why the voltage follower was used instead?




From chris.crosskey at vicon.com  Mon Mar 11 09:17:04 2002
From: chris.crosskey at vicon.com (Chris Crosskey)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:17:04 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] thunderous transvormator
Message-ID: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D0208560CD83BD@FILESERV>

YEah, and his spelling is even worse than mine :-))

chrisc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Maddox [mailto:Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com]
> Sent: 10 March 2002 15:33
> To: Synth DIY List
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] thunderous transvormator
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>  can we remove idiots like this please?
> one plug for a site is enough, 3 is takeing the piss!
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "restate" <restate at restate.org>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 1:25 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] thunderous transvormator
> 
> 
> > the time is now.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > restate/rebelle.
> > 
> > prepare to want one.
> > 
> > 
> > one pyroklastik auviq breaking spektakel sotsietys ice.
> > 
> > the elegant endlosung.
> > 
> > no being comparabelle has ever been thought. 
> > no being comparabelle has ever been heard.
> > no being comparabelle has ever been seen. 
> > 
> > abtsolut never.
> > 
> > abtsolut ever. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > http://rebelle.restate.org/
> > 
> > http://rebelle.restate.org/
> > 
> > http://rebelle.restate.org/
> > 
> > 
> > plus offitsial restate/rebelle anthem 'whats your name' by 
> funkstorung.
> > 
> > (vor free)
> > 
> > (vor you)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > while fullfilling my funktsion i am unpredictabelle.
> > 
> > (turbulent vrom inside)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >                   http://www.restate.org  ]
> > 
> > [affiliate program  >  apply at restate.org  ]
> > [affiliate program  >  apply at restate.org  ]
> > 
> > 
> >                   apply now. why wait. let me contamine your mind.
> >              
> > 
> > 
> >   closed iratsional minds may be rejekted.
> > 
> >   open ratsional minds may be infekted.  
> >              
> >                  
> >                     
> >                   
> >                   
> >                                   :
> >                   
> >                   
> >                   
> >                   
> >                   
> >                   
> >                   
> >                    i will perturb you.
> >                   
> >                   
> > 
> > 
> > (gifts make slaves)
> 

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in
error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the
information in any way, and notify me immediately.


From chris.crosskey at vicon.com  Mon Mar 11 09:26:27 2002
From: chris.crosskey at vicon.com (Chris Crosskey)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:26:27 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Shepard Function Gen's
Message-ID: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D0208560CD83BE@FILESERV>

One way to do it would be with something like the circuit that Digisound
used for the saw-tooth multiplier....it was designed as a sort of chorus
unit that added whatsounded like six slightly detuned sawteeth waves to a
saw input.....basically it was shifting the sawtooth waves by using
different turnover points, then moving the turnover points with six slightly
different LFO's, hence the phases all shifted around wrt each other wihtout
ever locking into out of phase cancelling....WHat you want to do is to use
the trick with fixed turnover points all 45 degrees apart, then use your new
sawteeth to create a set of triangles to form the VCA controllers (heck you
might as well build in the VCA's too)....it's a good idea to put an LPF on
the sawtooth itself, it'll kill the switch glitch that might otherwise be
very hard to get rid of, and you don't have to worry too much about it
causing a slew rather than a straight cut at the turnover point as it'll be
inaudible at that point anyway....you might as well build a dedicated LFO to
power it limited to useful Shephard frequencies....I doubt it needs to go
audio, I doubt it needs to be that slow either.....

chrisc 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lewis Bupp [mailto:lbuppii at hotmail.com]
> Sent: 11 March 2002 02:55
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Shepard Function Gen's
> 
> 
> Many years ago, Paia sold a Sheppard (SP??) Function 
> Generator kit or IC. 
> They no longer sell the chip. IS the chip still manufactured? 
> If not, does 
> anyone know of a circuit that will approximate the same effect?
> 
> Lew
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> 

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in
error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the
information in any way, and notify me immediately.


From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Mon Mar 11 09:48:52 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:48:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A67EA@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

Hi,

in southern Poland there's manufacturer that would make such board for
something about 13EUR apiece

Roman

""-----Original Message-----
""From: Trevor Page [mailto:trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk]
""Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:09 PM
""To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
""Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
""
""
""Hi all.
""
""I'm asking this to members of the list out of curiousity:
""
""Where you live, how much would you expect to pay for a very 
""good quality
""printed circuit board, double sided and silkscreened, 
""measuring something
""like 200mm by 150mm, including the initial tooling costs, and assuming
""quantities of 20 to 30?
""
""I'm not really looking for any particular company 
""recommendations - rather
""I'm just wondering how production costs might vary in 
""different regions.
""Just after rough figures.
""
""Regards,
""
""Trevor.
""
""
""
""--
""trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk
""
""
""
""
""---------------------------------------------------------
""This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
""
""Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
""oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
""


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From s.thomas at qmul.ac.uk  Mon Mar 11 10:43:39 2002
From: s.thomas at qmul.ac.uk (steve thomas)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:43:39 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
References: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A67EA@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>
Message-ID: <009b01c1c8e1$399a60e0$e35769d5@st>

Hi ..just wondered if anyone on the list  has used this company..based in
Bulgaria:-

http://www.olimex.com/pcb/

prices for a double sided Eurocard is $26.00 which seems very good.

cheers
steve thomas



Synth-DIY pages:-
http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Sowa Roman <Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl>
To: 'Trevor Page' <trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk>;
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 8:48 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] PCB production costs


> Hi,
>
> in southern Poland there's manufacturer that would make such board for
> something about 13EUR apiece
>
> Roman
>
> ""-----Original Message-----
> ""From: Trevor Page [mailto:trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk]
> ""Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:09 PM
> ""To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> ""Subject: [sdiy] PCB production costs
> ""
> ""
> ""Hi all.
> ""
> ""I'm asking this to members of the list out of curiousity:
> ""
> ""Where you live, how much would you expect to pay for a very
> ""good quality
> ""printed circuit board, double sided and silkscreened,
> ""measuring something
> ""like 200mm by 150mm, including the initial tooling costs, and assuming
> ""quantities of 20 to 30?
> ""
> ""I'm not really looking for any particular company
> ""recommendations - rather
> ""I'm just wondering how production costs might vary in
> ""different regions.
> ""Just after rough figures.
> ""
> ""Regards,
> ""
> ""Trevor.
> ""
> ""
> ""
> ""--
> ""trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk
> ""
> ""
> ""
> ""
> ""---------------------------------------------------------
> ""This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
> ""
> ""Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
> ""oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
> ""
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
>
> Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
> oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
>
>



From pgrenader at mksound.com  Mon Mar 11 10:59:30 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:59:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <B8B24A07.380AA%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <B8B1CE12.2BCE%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Grant and the rest,

I completely agree with Grant's comments here.  Who (in the hell) are we to
judge?

on 3/11/02 10:48 AM, Grant Richter at grichter at asapnet.net wrote:

> I didn't see anything in the group guidelines that forbids "arty" posts. I
> think it took a lot of guts to post here. It would seem English is not her
> primary language.
> 
> Judging from the hostile response, there is no wonder that women artists
> don't post here.
> 
> How about some hospitality, or at least tolerance? If you don't like the
> post contents, then don't respond.
> 
> Just because some ones brain doesn't work like yours, does that make them a
> target?
> 
>> 
>> Just repeatedly refresh her absurd website a few hundred times.  If we all
>> do that, ought to send her bandwidth bill skyrocketing.
>> 
>> We can call it our own "Internet performance art".
>> 
>> JSL
>> 
>> 
> 




From tpaddock at seanet.com  Mon Mar 11 10:36:52 2002
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (tpaddock at seanet.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:36:52 US/Pacific
Subject: [sdiy] o-scope z axis control
Message-ID: <200203111836.g2BIaqY09275@mx.seanet.com>

I'd like to play with z-axis (brightness) 
on an o-scope that I'm using for X-Y 
display of audio. Such as brightness 
dependant on the x and y signals so 
it's brighter farther out from center. 
And it doesn't burn the center 
with no signal. So, as a starting point...

Could someone point me to a "precision 
full-wave rectifiers for dummies"?

I got a TEK 608 X-Y monitor at a ham radio 
swap meet Saturday. Differential inputs for 
X,Y,Z, whooo-hooo!

Almost got an old counter that used columns 
of lights for the display. Can't remember 
what that's called. 

Later,
Toby
Paddock



From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Mar 11 10:42:00 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:42:00
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Message-ID: <20020311184226.XWRU24554.out007.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Well, last I checked, the list is "synth-diy".  I saw that the 
post was something about a synth of some kind, but I can't 
recall seeing anything do-it-yourself in the post.  Am I wrong 
in my perception that diy means things like building, designing,
troubleshooting, fixing...  those sorts of things done 
"yourself"?  Maybe I don't get it, but posting art is probably
not what is meant by "synth-diy".  There are better places for
that, places where the audience expects and appreciates that.
Ah, but one can say that the unexpected nature of it was what
made it art in the first place.  If that's the case, then why
not appreciate finding a cockroach in the sandwich you just
bought at a restaurant?  Perhaps it was the chef's performance
art.  And I think that chef would have to expect the patron's 
obvious reaction, just as she should expect and appreciate the 
negative reaction she got for posting what she did.  

One might argue that the art was something she did herself.  
Fine.  But then aren't we faced with a meaningless list charter?

Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net> wrote:
>I didn't see anything in the group guidelines that forbids "arty" posts. I
>think it took a lot of guts to post here. It would seem English is not her
>primary language.
>
>Judging from the hostile response, there is no wonder that women artists
>don't post here.
>
>How about some hospitality, or at least tolerance? If you don't like the
>post contents, then don't respond.
>
>Just because some ones brain doesn't work like yours, does that make them a
>target?
>
>> 
>> Just repeatedly refresh her absurd website a few hundred times.  If we all
>> do that, ought to send her bandwidth bill skyrocketing.
>> 
>> We can call it our own "Internet performance art".
>> 
>> JSL
>> 
>> 
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From ka4hjh at gte.net  Mon Mar 11 12:00:44 2002
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:00:44 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Shepard Function Gen's
In-Reply-To: <F145dStaJAyBCsAnget0000fd2c@hotmail.com>
References: <F145dStaJAyBCsAnget0000fd2c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p05100301b8b23e58c84f@[67.200.182.92]>

>Many years ago, Paia sold a Sheppard (SP??) Function Generator kit or IC.

For those unfamiliar with this, here's an MP3 and technical overview:

http://www.crowncity.net/ratcave/Audio/Audio.html


Wow, I'm really getting to toot my horn this week.
-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"It gets calls when nothing else works"--Walter Eugene Scott, PdD,
explaining somewhat facetiously why a "TV preacher" was smoking a cigar.


From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Mar 11 12:05:57 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:05:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, worth a look. (NN related)
Message-ID: <009501c1c8ec$b87caca0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

For those interested about where the resent "spam" comes from
I suggest you take a look here: http://www.steim.nl
The web art girly who recently enriched our SDIY lives is Netochka
Nezvanova.
You have to dig around the site but she actually has some MP3 of her music
there.

Basically Steim is a state sponsored synth diy club.
IMO their site is quite an interesting place to look around.

Cheers,
Theo





From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Mar 11 12:14:23 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:14:23 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, worth a look. (NN related)
Message-ID: <11d.d6fafb8.29bdeb8f@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/11/02 6:06:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, t.hogers at home.nl 
writes:


> Basically Steim is a state sponsored synth diy club.
> IMO their site is quite an interesting place to look around.
> 

State sponsored synth diy.....we need that here in the states...but no, we're 
too busy spending all the tax dollars on fighting "terrorism" to do anything 
that productive.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020311/3e7254be/attachment.htm>

From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Mar 11 12:28:24 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:28:24 EST
Subject: [sdiy] SG review of recent list spam
Message-ID: <73.1c239826.29bdeed8@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/10/02 3:17:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, ka4hjh at gte.net 
writes:


> Since The Church of The SubGenius(tm) just came up recently, I'd
> like to point out that this is a classic violation of the sacred tenet "if
> you don't have a sense of humor don't try to be funny"--figuratively
> 

Isn't "F*ck em if they can't take a joke" another one of theirs? That HTML 
page is more than just a mistake, if it was really HTML it wouldn't have 
working clickable links embedded in it, being source code.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020311/f931d94c/attachment.htm>

From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 13:19:02 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:19:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Minimoog EG power question
References: <3C8C40AC.4C2F2A13@bency.com>
Message-ID: <3C8CA0B7.2BE3BB7E@globalnet.co.uk>

Hello Kenneth and all,

Kenneth Martinez wrote:

> I've built a Minimoog VCF and VCA using the schematics from the service
> manual.  

Out of interest, and as something of a newbie, can anyone point me to these schematics?

Regards
   David

-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk




From restate at restate.org  Mon Mar 11 13:32:36 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate at restate.org)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:32:36 -600 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <3c8ca3e4.1856.0@restate.org>

<t.hogers at home.nl> wrote:    

>Seems she works at Steim (a "research" center for electronic "music" located

>in Amsterdam)

?are you sure.


>Does conceptual art

yes yes.

(i do do)


the (ot) posts and unreadable WebPages seem to be part
>of her personal expression.

maybe it is some one divverent.

(it is the divverents that makes the divverents)



>The name she used at the dsp list she also uses as a normal artist name.
>It probably won't be hard to find her snail mail address,
>if she stays annoying maybe we could drop her a mail bomb over snail mail.


savor eksacting.

it is not not my elegant dialekt.

maybe it is some one divverent.

(as the z is dead)

(as is the eksclamatsion mark)

(as is the hacker stijl)



do not harm the harmless, raging.

(please)




i am just a copy.
http://www.restate.org


From pgrenader at mksound.com  Mon Mar 11 14:21:37 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:21:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <3C8D228D.4D5EB75C@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <B8B1FD71.2C8B%pgrenader@mksound.com>

on 3/11/02 2:33 PM, harry at harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:

> Perhaps some oldsters remember John Cage's 4'33"  ???

Ah...4 33...know it well.  Although passed off by many as pretentious
nonsense, it did it's job: the 'rests' in music are as important as the
notes.  Try telling this to Bill Bruford or Scarlatti,  for that matter!

I have the score to this piece at home actually (no, i'm not being a smart
ass here, there was a score).

- Peter (45 years young and counting)







From restate at restate.org  Mon Mar 11 14:29:34 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate at restate.org)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:29:34 -600 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <3c8cb13e.5650.0@restate.org>

paranoid persona <Scott Gravenhorst> wrote:

>I'm not sure if this is apparent to all of us, so
>I'll post it since my address is already exposed.

as is your inderivabelle intellekt.



>Since SDIY is a list the will not broadcast it's membership
>by command to majordomo, anyone who posts here exposes 
>themselves to this jerk's ability to see us.
>
>I've already made the mistake of posting.  He's got my
>address.  He's kill-filed for sure, but he does have mine.

i am so so so attrakted by men being aware ov their indiscutabelle importants
vor their dominant culture.

you may relaks, my frightfull friend.

i will never harm you.

(i scare because I care)



>I think we can all also agree that even if the product
>he represents is the best thing on the planet, not one
>of us would buy it, or even take it for free, or heck,
>take it with a pile of money stuck to it...

lovely.

?are you aroused



>I concur.
>
>And note that this little brat thinks it's clever to 
>use more than one address.  I guess it's time for 
>"Gated subscription".

just one being.

restate at restate.org

one love. one thought  one world. mendacious monokultur.









read me.

http://www.restate.org/epiphany/
http://www.restate.org


From pgrenader at mksound.com  Mon Mar 11 15:33:41 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:33:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <B8B1FD71.2C8B%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <B8B20E55.2C98%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Wout brings up a good point here - 4 33 was a etude on silence, not 'rests'
as I put it B4.

The piece was actually written for solo piano.  The performer sits on the
piano stand and opens the the cover. 4 minutes and 33 seconds later, the
performer closes the cover.   I have heard many different descriptions of
the performance, including the performer holding their hand frozen above the
keys for the duration, but this instruction is not listed in the notes.

The ulitmate in fluxus and painful to some for sure.  But hey...it only
lasts 4 and a half minutes.  The antithesis surely being the work of LeMonte
Young:  Two beading sine tones with no apparent envelope that shift a
billionth of a 1/4 tone over a 30 minute period.

For me, Cage's work is much more thought-provoking than Young's.


> on 3/11/02 2:33 PM, harry at harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps some oldsters remember John Cage's 4'33"  ???
> 
> Ah...4 33...know it well.  Although passed off by many as pretentious
> nonsense, it did it's job: the 'rests' in music are as important as the
> notes.  Try telling this to Bill Bruford or Scarlatti,  for that matter!
> 
> I have the score to this piece at home actually (no, i'm not being a smart
> ass here, there was a score).
> 
> - Peter (45 years young and counting)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From restate at restate.org  Mon Mar 11 15:45:01 2002
From: restate at restate.org (restate)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:45:01 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: 111100100011001100001101100110TTAGGG

<primitive promoter ov pensee unique> wrote:

>This email is a confirmation. If you've gotten this email someone hates >your
>guts and they have subscribed you to DOZENS of mailinglists. Just too >bad...but
>there's NOTHING you can do about it!

(smile)

your hatred is my love.






the higher i upraise the smaller i appear to those who cannot fly.





http://www.restate.org ___ to educate, amuse and enrich



From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Mon Mar 11 15:50:02 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:50:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DDA@lande11>

you say:

-----
(i am radically entelechic)
-----

i don't doubt it.  i can't see for myself tho.  your site doesn't like to show pictures.

rock.




































surrender.






From buchi at takeonetech.de  Mon Mar 11 16:14:28 2002
From: buchi at takeonetech.de (Michael Buchstaller)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:14:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
In-Reply-To: <20020310225034.TZLI23097.out005.verizon.net@mail.lan>
References: <20020310225034.TZLI23097.out005.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <3bip8usil75aibtgl1t9gnaeukpho445vj@4ax.com>

Could we stop this thread now, gentlemen ?
I just begin feeling like i was at AH or Music-DSP...

OK, i can add people to a kill file, but i would prefer the
Admin to ban this user from the list. Rick ...?



-Michael Buchstaller


From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Mon Mar 11 16:16:58 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:16:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] req : midi guitar info
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DDB@lande11>

if only i could afford it Mo... it certainly would be interesting to try!  too bad we're not neighbors.

-----Original Message-----
From: Moho Disco [mailto:moho at mohodisco.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:51 PM
To: harry; music.maker at gte.net
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] req : midi guitar info


I have an Axon AX-100, and it basically tracked in real-time for me.

But in the end, playing my synths with my guitar just didn't feel
quite right.

So my Axon is for sale if anyone is interested.

Lava

At 23:14 3/10/2002 -0500, harry wrote:
>Hi Scott (et al)
>
>I have had the same results as Scott. The octave switch of the two low
>strings is a really good (if not original) solution. Several commercial
>units did the same...  there was a "high strung" version of the Photon
>Midi Interface... and a Yamaha "guitar controller" that used all high
>E strings tuned to unison.
>
>Scott's solution is probably the most practical and closest to a "real
>guitar".
>
>I used to use the Roland GM-70 system... you could count on about a 30ms
>delay. I used a digital delay on the guitar output to "time align" the synth
>and
>guitar attack. This works... but you cannot listen to yourself without
>confusion...
>and the drummer would watch me for the beat (a good idea.. he's eliminating
>another delay as my sound reaches his ears..) but my actions were 30ms in 
>front
>
>of the sound... and he KNEW it....
>
>I've just finished (and I use the term as Eduardo "elmacacoX" does... finished
>until tomorrow when I modify it again ;^)  a hex guitar project. I use direct
>waveshaping on the guitar strings themselves... then process with VCF, VCA
>etc. Its a fully polyphonic approach that has the advantage of no delay. Of
>course
>it cannot sustain forever... but it does for a long time....
>
>Trying to approximate the pitch for the first quarter cycle is probably 
>not too
>reliable..
>the attack transient of the guitar is going to spoil that.  You might be able
>to play
>a quarter cycle of any midi note (within an octave  ;^)  for a short time
>before your
>brain can process it. Sounds with slow attack will mask the uncertainty 
>anyway.
>
>The Axon measures the time it takes for the pick transient to reflect off the
>fret position... this can be faster as its really not measuring the
>vibration... but the speed
>of sound in steel. It is said to be pick sensitive as well.
>
>I use the method of the "Gold" patent (New England Digital - Synthclavier) for
>pitch
>extraction... I saw the ads featuring Pat Metheny with the system. If its good
>enough for Pat its good enough for me. Two caveats...
>
>1)  My techinque (while good - teehee) is NOT in a class with Mr. Metheny...
>
>~and~
>
>2) I've been informed that while he posed for pictures as a Synthclavier
>endorsee...
>that his solos were actually recorded with the GR-30 (an all analog system
>which uses the guitar strings as a sync source as well... minimizing delay and
>error)
>
>Midi guitar is still the Holy Grail as far as I'm concerned...
>
>(now Midi Theremin... that we can do  ;^)
>
>H^) harry
>
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
> > I'd be interested in the comments of others...
> >
> > The system I use does not produce analogue outs...  It's
> > a MIDI guitar system.  (and the question was about MIDI
> > guitar)
> >
> > First, a whole lot of this has to do with how you play
> > it.  I've heard other people do stuff with my equipment
> > that I can't seem to do.  So I won't claim to be a good
> > guitar player or a good MIDI guitar player.  My problem
> > is having a ham fist, heavy hand.
> >
> > What I can relate is what I've read about the system I
> > use and some things I've done to optimize it for me.
> >
> > First the system I use is a GR-50 synth with a GK-2 pickup
> > system.
> >
> > It is designed to approximate the pitch of a picked string
> > by measuring dv/dt for the first quarter cycle.  The GR50
> > synth will then start the attack portion of the sound with
> > that rough pitch measurment.  As time goes by, more precise
> > measurment is made by cycle counting and the rest of the
> > sound time is pitch corrected.  The MIDI messages associated
> > with this are a burst of MIDI pitch wheel messages (if MIDI
> > is enabled).  I wrote some software to analyse this data and
> > found that picking strategy is important.
> >
> > I have never found using this instrument very useful for
> > recording MIDI messages.  There's just too much dirt.  For
> > me and my ham fisted wanker technique though, it is useful
> > (for me) to do pad chords.
> >
> > As far as optmimizing it, I did this: (and I got the idea
> > from a guy's posting on some newsgroup)
> >
> > I replaced the lowest 2 strings with ones that are 1/2 the
> > diameter (hence tuned up an octave).  This speeds up the
> > (ordinarily) late response of those strings, although it does
> > require that you change the pitch programming of the sounds you
> > use to compensate for the octave shift.  I also discovered that
> > this almost "nashville" tuning is something I like...  But that's
> > something else.
> >
> > Make the string height to pickup adjustments as close as
> > you can.
> >
> > I hope that wasn't too off topic....
> >
> > "criss m" <moog at sick.cl> wrote:
> > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> > >
> > >------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1C207.BA862E40
> > >Content-Type: text/plain;
> > >       charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > >
> > >hi guys=20
> > >
> > >im back after some nice vacation :) and i was wondering if somene can =
> > >provide me some links or info about midi guitars (i dont know much about =
> > >it)=20
> > >but=20
> > >i dont know if there are units that translate a analogic signal from the =
> > >guitar (electric) and translate into midi mensages??????
> > >
> > >or if there other sort of midi gitars with switchs or sensors in the =
> > >bridge?
> > >
> > >i just build a  midi keyboard and noticed that ima keyboard fool.... its =
> > >hard for me , i think i'll buy piano for dummies....
> > >
> > >please help
> >
> > =========================================================
> > - Government: The other religion.
> > - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> > - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
> >
> > -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> > -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> > -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> > -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>
>--
>Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
>Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
>Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
>go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
>hide... how about YOU ???


From jslandau at engin.umich.edu  Mon Mar 11 16:26:20 2002
From: jslandau at engin.umich.edu (Josh Landau)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:26:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Hit em where it hurts....
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020311102447.00b1aeb8@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>

You know, she's got the website hosted on her own dime, judging from the 
reverse DNS lookup (communitech.net is the hosting provider).

Who wants to bet they DID NOT give her unlimited bandwidth?

Just repeatedly refresh her absurd website a few hundred times.  If we all 
do that, ought to send her bandwidth bill skyrocketing.

We can call it our own "Internet performance art".

JSL



From pgrenader at mksound.com  Mon Mar 11 16:40:56 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:40:56 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] just intonation
In-Reply-To: <01f801c1c95c$3c724320$100400c0@killerobot.com>
Message-ID: <B8B21E18.2CB1%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Technically speaking, 'Just Intonation' refers to using whole number
frequency equivs to all degrees of the scale, as opposed to Equal Temerment,
in which these perfect (bad choice of word here) intervals are intentionally
detuned to fit into our current ethestic of consonance and dissonant
intervals, which has changed over the years.  A good example of this is the
tritone (aug 4th) which until pretty recently was determined to be
dissonant, but now widely accepted.  I have read stories about how the use
of this specific interval in the baroque period was scorned.

Harry Partch and Lou Harrison were big on Just Intonation, as is LeMonte
Young and Chas Smith.





From greg.montalbano at ucop.edu  Mon Mar 11 18:11:01 2002
From: greg.montalbano at ucop.edu (greg montalbano)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:11:01 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Shepard Function Gen's
In-Reply-To: <F145dStaJAyBCsAnget0000fd2c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311090501.022fb310@popserv.ucop.edu>

The SFG kit was one of Paia's Experimenter Board series -- it wasn't an IC, 
but a board with a dozen or so logic ICs configured to produce the 
eight-phase lfo (simultaneous triangle & ramp).   I sold mine on one of the 
lists a couple of years ago;  still have copies of the docs lying around 
somewhere, if you're really interested (but note that I could NOT get a 
readable xerox of the circuit board -- it was one of those translucent 
things that would not copy well).

~GMM

At 09:54 PM 3/10/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Many years ago, Paia sold a Sheppard (SP??) Function Generator kit or IC. 
>They no longer sell the chip. IS the chip still manufactured? If not, does 
>anyone know of a circuit that will approximate the same effect?
>
>Lew
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>



From kmartinez at bency.com  Mon Mar 11 18:21:55 2002
From: kmartinez at bency.com (Kenneth Martinez)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:21:55 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Minimoog EG power question
References: <3C8C40AC.4C2F2A13@bency.com> <3C8CA0B7.2BE3BB7E@globalnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C8CE7B2.E6C0CA7C@bency.com>

For those who've asked - I've temporarily put up the relevant pages from the service manual
at:

http://www.nmrailrunners.org/temp/Minimoog.html

I've included the schematics for the VCF, VCA, and EGs; some pages explaining them; and
parts lists.  Pots & resistors from the front panel are part of the circuits, so they're
included.  Plus there's a parts list in Excel format showing what I used, ordered mostly
from Mouser (now you see how anal I am ;-)

My question was about the EG Decoupling Circuit (Q26) on page 9-05a.




From grichter at asapnet.net  Mon Mar 11 18:22:03 2002
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:22:03 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator & demo board
In-Reply-To: <20020311025244.56046.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8B243DB.380A8%grichter@asapnet.net>

I was lucky enough to talk with a professor at UW-Kenosha who wanted to
build a large Walsh array in the 70's. This unit was to have the
coefficients set by a DAC controlled by a PDP-11. (I don't know what
happened to it, I just talked with him about the design).

This was his approach: Instead of using potentiometers for summing, use the
Walsh function to gate a voltage into a summer instead. So the Walsh
function controls a CD4066 (or equiv.) which is gating a voltage between +/-
1 "unit" into the summer. This is the same mathematically as the pot, but
saves a lot of wiring.

So now the coefficients are just voltage sources and you can use fixed
resistors, pots, DACs, LFOs or sequencers to set up the coefficients.

> From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:52:44 -0800 (PST)
> To: Synth-Diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator & demo board
> 
> To all,
> 
> I have this Xilinx CPLD design I did for a Walsh
> generator. It takes a clock in, and produces 15 sin
> and cos Walsh functions. I am considering offering it
> for sale, along with a little demo PCB which has a 8
> (or more?) input mixer for summing the Walsh
> functions. There are working prototypes for all this.
> All thats needed is for me to get off my ample
> posterier and do the layout.
> 
> So like, I'm wondering how many people are interested?
> I have not added up the costs, but I'm guessing in the
> $40-50 Dollar (US) range. Maybe less; i'm not trying
> to get rich off of this.
> 
> Anyone interested raise your hand.
> 
> --TR
> 
> ***************************************
> Anything worth doing is worth overdoing
> ***************************************
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 



From grichter at asapnet.net  Mon Mar 11 18:48:24 2002
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:48:24 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020311102447.00b1aeb8@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B24A07.380AA%grichter@asapnet.net>

I didn't see anything in the group guidelines that forbids "arty" posts. I
think it took a lot of guts to post here. It would seem English is not her
primary language.

Judging from the hostile response, there is no wonder that women artists
don't post here.

How about some hospitality, or at least tolerance? If you don't like the
post contents, then don't respond.

Just because some ones brain doesn't work like yours, does that make them a
target?

> 
> Just repeatedly refresh her absurd website a few hundred times.  If we all
> do that, ought to send her bandwidth bill skyrocketing.
> 
> We can call it our own "Internet performance art".
> 
> JSL
> 
> 



From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 19:19:55 2002
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (Trevor Page)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:19:55 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
References: <B8B24A07.380AA%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <000e01c1c929$5add9e00$167287d9@tb303>

Simple answer, Grant: because some of us have already experienced NN's
antics and know precisely what to expect.


Trev



From grichter at asapnet.net  Mon Mar 11 19:23:58 2002
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:23:58 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Shepard Function Gen's
In-Reply-To: <p05100301b8b23e58c84f@[67.200.182.92]>
Message-ID: <B8B2525E.380AB%grichter@asapnet.net>

More Shepard Function Generator MP3s

http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Circuitry/shepard.html


>> Many years ago, Paia sold a Sheppard (SP??) Function Generator kit or IC.
> 



From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Mon Mar 11 19:28:57 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:28:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DE1@lande11>

good call.

-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Richter [mailto:grichter at asapnet.net]
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 12:48 PM
To: Josh Landau; synth-DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....


I didn't see anything in the group guidelines that forbids "arty" posts. I
think it took a lot of guts to post here. It would seem English is not her
primary language.

Judging from the hostile response, there is no wonder that women artists
don't post here.

How about some hospitality, or at least tolerance? If you don't like the
post contents, then don't respond.

Just because some ones brain doesn't work like yours, does that make them a
target?

> 
> Just repeatedly refresh her absurd website a few hundred times.  If we all
> do that, ought to send her bandwidth bill skyrocketing.
> 
> We can call it our own "Internet performance art".
> 
> JSL
> 
> 


From colin at colinfraser.com  Mon Mar 11 19:36:26 2002
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:36:26 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <B8B24A07.380AA%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <000401c1c92b$a7125de0$f61e68d5@zen>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Grant Richter
> Sent: 11 March 2002 5:48
> To: Josh Landau; synth-DIY
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
> 
> 
> I didn't see anything in the group guidelines that forbids 
> "arty" posts.

Isn't there something there about the subject of the list being
'synth-diy' ?

Your response, hostile or otherwise, is what this person needs.
If people would just ignore it, it would go away.

Colin f



From nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk  Mon Mar 11 19:38:28 2002
From: nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:38:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <B8B24A07.380AA%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203111834160.24375-100000@green.csi.cam.ac.uk>


I think the issue here is not that we don't like her input (far from it,
I find it quite amusing :-) but the abrupt approach thus taken.

But, now that Eva/Nenotchka (sp?) is here, welcome!  Do join our merry
little band, drag up a chair and help yourself to the biscuits.  Tea is in
the pot.

Of course, there is also the issue of courtesy and respect, just like in
any other communal environment.

Enjoy!

Neil

--
Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::
http://www.njohnson.co.uk          http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22
----  IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk  ----



From nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk  Mon Mar 11 19:44:41 2002
From: nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:44:41 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, worth a look. (NN related)
In-Reply-To: <009501c1c8ec$b87caca0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203111843500.20558-100000@green.csi.cam.ac.uk>


Theo wrote:
> The web art girly who recently enriched our SDIY lives is Netochka
> Nezvanova.

Try:
	http://www.nyartsmagazine.com/58/digital.htm

Amusing, if nothing else.

:-)

Neil

--
Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::
http://www.njohnson.co.uk          http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22
----  IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk  ----



From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Mon Mar 11 20:00:26 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:00:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
References: <B8B24A07.380AA%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8CFECA.C33D0BCF@verizon.net>



Grant Richter wrote:
> 
> I didn't see anything in the group guidelines that forbids "arty" posts. I
> think it took a lot of guts to post here. It would seem English is not her
> primary language.
> 
> Judging from the hostile response, there is no wonder that women artists
> don't post here.


the poster is a woman?


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Mon Mar 11 20:06:09 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:06:09 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <B8B24A07.380AA%grichter@asapnet.net>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020311102447.00b1aeb8@srvr5.engin.umich.edu> <B8B24A07.380AA%grichter@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020311190609.GA2062@teaser.fr>

On 2002-03-11 11:48 -0600, Grant Richter wrote:

> Judging from the hostile response, there is no wonder that women artists
> don't post here.

In this case, the problem is IMHO not the sex of the poster (which
I don't know), rather his or her manners.

> Just because some ones brain doesn't work like yours, does that make them a
> target?

In face of the overwhelmingly negative response, the poster
instead of changing his/her way, replied provocatively.
Furthermore, if there is any synth-dyi content in his/her posts, I
didn't see it. So I have the definite impression that this person
came here not to discuss synth-diy but to annoy people and attract
attention. Which is about the definition of a troll.

Or am I missing something, Grant ? If so, I'm sincerely willing to
be enlightened.

This little rant does not mean I'm advocating flooding the offender.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
std::disclaimer ("Not speaking for my employer");


From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Mon Mar 11 20:09:54 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (oleavitt at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:09:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] o-scope z axis control
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.1015873794.0.08791400@www.springmail.com>

As for precision full wave rectifiers,

There are some examples in the datasheets for the CA3130, CA3140 mosfet input opamps - if an opamp type of circuit is what you're after...

http://www.intersil.com/Data/FN/FN8/FN817/FN817.pdf
http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn9/fn957/fn957.pdf

tpaddock at seanet.com wrote:
> I'd like to play with z-axis (brightness) 
on an o-scope that I'm using for X-Y 
display of audio. Such as brightness 
dependant on the x and y signals so 
it's brighter farther out from center. 
And it doesn't burn the center 
with no signal. So, as a starting point...

Could someone point me to a "precision 
full-wave rectifiers for dummies"?

I got a TEK 608 X-Y monitor at a ham radio 
swap meet Saturday. Differential inputs for 
X,Y,Z, whooo-hooo!

Almost got an old counter that used columns 
of lights for the display. Can't remember 
what that's called. 

Later,
Toby
Paddock



From blommoo at wanadoo.nl  Mon Mar 11 20:17:53 2002
From: blommoo at wanadoo.nl (Wout Blommers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:17:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, worth a look.
References: <009501c1c8ec$b87caca0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D02E1.7D1D9178@wanadoo.nl>

Theo wrote:
> Basically Steim is a state sponsored synth diy club.

Hi,

That's not completely the truth.
Steim is a 'left over' from a project called 'reconstruction',
an opera made by very sophisticated composers and which was
as a prestige project sponsored by the Dutch state.
The whole project had to be a 'guide to modern composing 
techniques' and all gear had to be available to others.
After the project, which was a little bit a failure, most 
gear went to an other institute, CEM (Center for Electronic
Music), Steim went on as a kind of laboratories for new
developments. Head of Steim became Michael Waisvisz, a 
composer who was well aware of the abilities of Midi.
He constructed a Midi Control devise, the 'Hands'

see;
http://home.wanadoo.nl/blommoo/TheHands.htm
A part of a study about the subject.
(Text Steim, photograph of gear, me)

Wout


From moho at mohodisco.com  Mon Mar 11 20:30:40 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:30:40 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
References: <B8B1CE12.2BCE%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <01cf01c1c933$3e0514c0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

> I completely agree with Grant's comments here.  Who (in the hell) are we
to
> judge?

Oh come off it.  It's not like we're talking about
morals or artistic integrity or some other earth
shattering topic here.  All we are "judging" is the
lack of any synth-DIY content (in an understandable
format, I might add) in the poster's contributions.
If you don't realize this as a basic tenet of this list,
then, well, get a clue.

Lava



From jamos at technotoys.com  Mon Mar 11 20:39:45 2002
From: jamos at technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:39:45 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, worth a look. (NN related)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203111843500.20558-100000@green.csi.cam.ac.uk>
References: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203111843500.20558-100000@green.csi.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200203111139450370.05B5E27D@161.58.178.202>

<sigh> nonsense as art. I suppose this should not be a surprise.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/11/02 at 6:44 PM Neil Johnson wrote:

>Theo wrote:
>> The web art girly who recently enriched our SDIY lives is Netochka
>> Nezvanova.
>
>Try:
>	http://www.nyartsmagazine.com/58/digital.htm
>
>Amusing, if nothing else.
>
>:-)
>
>Neil
>
>--
>Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::
>http://www.njohnson.co.uk          http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22
>----  IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk  ----


Jim Johnson 
Metaphoric Software
-------------------
Makers of Techno Toys
Software for Electronic Music
http://www.technotoys.com
info at technotoys.com




From james at ersatzplanet.com  Mon Mar 11 21:05:26 2002
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:05:26 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <20020311190609.GA2062@teaser.fr>
Message-ID: <B8B24E06.1A417%james@ersatzplanet.com>

As a member of the MAX/MSP list, NN's post are familiar to me. Now on that
list the situation was a little different. NN creates a product called
nato.0+55 witch is a very powerful video performance package that runs on
the Mac (and maybe others). She was eventually banned from the list there
because her post became very negative and *very* plentiful. They also were
aimed at Cycling74 the current holders of the Max program. Her main site at
the time was www.m9ndfukc.org.
 Anyway, my feelings are that no action should be taken against her based on
the way she acted on other list. If she starts posting on this one in the
same manner, she will be thought of in the same light. There probably isn't
much going on in this list that she would find that interesting anyway. The
main draw was the talk about video synthesizers, which we have moved on by.
On the max list there was much for her to comment on. The real problem I had
with her post were never the ideas she posted (alternate perspectives are
always enlightning to me) but in the format of her post (and most of her
site as well). The wild puntuations and character substitutions are all on
purpose. It is not a foreign character map going on there. In fact a gent on
the Max list wrote a crude "translator" that worked pretty well! I would
love to really hear what she had to say, but reading it was such a pain that
I gave up trying. A real case where the process obscured the product.
-James



From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Mar 11 21:08:48 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:08:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
References: <B8B1CE12.2BCE%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c1c938$9066eae0$e2e59e3e@debitel.net>

What I've been hitting a lot recently was the "delete" button.
I admit that I didn't take a close look to any of these messages,
nor did I open any web page with contents that would hit my eyes.
(I caught a description of something like that, and my response
was a consequent delete, delete, delete ...)
Did I miss anything synth-diy related ?

JH.




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Mon Mar 11 21:14:38 2002
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:14:38 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] sadly
Message-ID: <004801c1c939$617e98d0$0100a8c0@Tigger>

All,

sadly after stateing my opinions of this restate idiot, I got emailed a
virus, awww..
Shame Im a little brighter than the average net user, It was deleted before
being  opened, and anyone I use virus software, sorry restate...

for anyone interested, the address had a blank email address (first dodgy
sign) secondly it had an attachment, and no subject (geeze, you'll have to
try harder than that)

the attachment is ;- PIBDAIPI.EXE

here's the full header for those who may care to be aware of it ;-

Paul

Received: from mail.swissonline.ch (mail.swissonline.ch [62.2.32.83])
 by relay02.cablecom.net (8.11.6/8.11.4/SOL/AWF/MXRELAY/06072001) with ESMTP
id g2BEJ1E91791
 for <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:19:01 +0100 (CET)
Received: from 011Aod2RFu (dclient62-2-130-58.hispeed.ch [62.2.130.58])
 by mail.swissonline.ch (8.11.4/8.11.4/MSOL-2.30/21-Dec-2000) with SMTP id
g2BEIiN09270
 for <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:18:45 +0100 (MET)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:18:45 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id: <200203111418.g2BEIiN09270 at mail.swissonline.ch>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="--VEJ01UNGH27CXY7CLEVSLMJ0DAJOLIN8H"
Bcc:

----VEJ01UNGH27CXY7CLEVSLMJ0DAJOLIN8H
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



----VEJ01UNGH27CXY7CLEVSLMJ0DAJOLIN8H
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="PIBDAIPI.EXE"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="PIBDAIPI.EXE"





From rja at euronet.nl  Mon Mar 11 21:35:14 2002
From: rja at euronet.nl (Rick Jansen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:35:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] ADMIN MSG: restate messages, PLEASE DON'T REPLY!!
Message-ID: <3C8D1502.CE0E110C@euronet.nl>

Dear all,

PLEASE don't reply to those messages by this restate
person. Unfortunately spammers have found this list too.

The majordomo "who" command has been disabled since
the last move of the list, but there's not much I can
do against spammers who subscribe to the list, collect 
email addresses and start mailing...

majordomo does not offer "ban" lists either, unless I
have overlooked that feature, so it's not easy to ban
people from the list either... An option would be to 
turn synth-diy into a closed list, but that would mean
I have to give my ok for each subscription, and thats
too much work.

Again, please ignore messages like this, it's the best 
remedy. I'll do what I can to get rid of spammers.

Rick Jansen
-- 
Web: http://www.euronet.nl/~rja/
email: rja at euronet.nl


From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Mar 11 21:46:00 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:46:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, worth a look.
References: <009501c1c8ec$b87caca0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <3C8D02E1.7D1D9178@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c93d$c18213c0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

From: Wout Blommers <blommoo at wanadoo.nl>
<snip>
> developments. Head of Steim became Michael Waisvisz, a
> composer who was well aware of the abilities of Midi.
> He constructed a Midi Control devise, the 'Hands'
>
> see;
> http://home.wanadoo.nl/blommoo/TheHands.htm
> A part of a study about the subject.
> (Text Steim, photograph of gear, me)
>
> Wout

Mmm, I am not a fan of mr Waisvisz work.
Puking over a walkman (he did on stage) is not my idea of musical
expression.

There was some one at Stanford or MIT (sorry forgot his name)
who build (and recorded with) similar "hands".
Think this was before Waisvisz.
Makes mr Waisvisz a bit of a "look me too" artist.

Theo




From eduni at ucsd.edu  Mon Mar 11 21:56:09 2002
From: eduni at ucsd.edu (Ethan Duni)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:56:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Message-ID: <200203112056.MAA02242@smtp.ucsd.edu>

_Yeah, after having sat through this exact discussion on the music-dsp list
about 250 times, my advice is that the most effective solution is the following:

-If you don't like NN, kill-filter her and *certainly* don't respond to her
posts on the list. I've had to endure like 30 NN_related messages and 0
actual NN messages today. And i don't want to kill-filter EVERYONE on the
list to avoid it. This seems to be how music-dsp operates now and it's been
pretty quiet over there for a while now. Those who suggested that NN posts
looking to provoke and ellicit a response are correct; so why give her the
shit-storm of list postings she's looking for? If everyone ignores her,
she'll very quickly tire of this list and disappear, excepting perhaps the
occasional new-product announcement.. 

-unsubscribing her, ethical issues aside, will not work; she changes email
addresses quite frequently, and antagonizing her will just get her to want
to post more to rile you guys up. 

-If you do like NN, approach her and ask questions about whatever interests
you. Though she likes to speak in riddles, she's actually quite amicable
towards people that don't immediately demand her being banned the moment she
makes a post.

-Apologies for adding to this (already irksome) thread.

Ethan

At 12:05 PM 3/11/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>As a member of the MAX/MSP list, NN's post are familiar to me. Now on that
>list the situation was a little different. NN creates a product called
>nato.0+55 witch is a very powerful video performance package that runs on
>the Mac (and maybe others). She was eventually banned from the list there
>because her post became very negative and *very* plentiful. They also were
>aimed at Cycling74 the current holders of the Max program. Her main site at
>the time was www.m9ndfukc.org.
> Anyway, my feelings are that no action should be taken against her based on
>the way she acted on other list. If she starts posting on this one in the
>same manner, she will be thought of in the same light. There probably isn't
>much going on in this list that she would find that interesting anyway. The
>main draw was the talk about video synthesizers, which we have moved on by.
>On the max list there was much for her to comment on. The real problem I had
>with her post were never the ideas she posted (alternate perspectives are
>always enlightning to me) but in the format of her post (and most of her
>site as well). The wild puntuations and character substitutions are all on
>purpose. It is not a foreign character map going on there. In fact a gent on
>the Max list wrote a crude "translator" that worked pretty well! I would
>love to really hear what she had to say, but reading it was such a pain that
>I gave up trying. A real case where the process obscured the product.
>-James
>
>



From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Mon Mar 11 22:07:16 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:07:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
References: <B8B1CE12.2BCE%pgrenader@mksound.com> <008c01c1c938$9066eae0$e2e59e3e@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <3C8D1C84.225A786D@eunet.yu>


> (I caught a description of something like that, and my response
> was a consequent delete, delete, delete ...)
> Did I miss anything synth-diy related ?

just headers?

8-O
 

--


marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Mon Mar 11 22:07:23 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:07:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, worth a look.
References: <009501c1c8ec$b87caca0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <3C8D02E1.7D1D9178@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <3C8D1C8B.44E9A76B@eunet.yu>


> developments. Head of Steim became Michael Waisvisz, a
> composer who was well aware of the abilities of Midi.

was that the guy who's been arrested for performing on those
crackle boxes (or whatever the name is) in the woods ?

-- 



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Mon Mar 11 22:07:43 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:07:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, (und unrelated herr baumann)
References: <009501c1c8ec$b87caca0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D1C9F.B02DFDDD@eunet.yu>


> For those interested about where the resent "spam" comes from
> I suggest you take a look here: http://www.steim.nl
> The web art girly who recently enriched our SDIY lives is Netochka
> Nezvanova.

... and did you know that one of the possible translations of
'nezvanova'
is 'uninvited' ?... 8-/


on totally unrelated note:

I've discovered tadream's peter baumann solo album from '79
trans harmonic nights - wow, what a piece, can't stop
playing it (except that last stupid track)
(OK, you might know it for ages, but russian pir at tes
finally brought something other than ricky martin over here ;)

-- 



marjan, your friendly multilanguage translator ;)


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From blommoo at wanadoo.nl  Mon Mar 11 22:30:01 2002
From: blommoo at wanadoo.nl (Wout Blommers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:30:01 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, worth a look.
References: <009501c1c8ec$b87caca0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <3C8D02E1.7D1D9178@wanadoo.nl> <002b01c1c93d$c18213c0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D21D9.5C8760CC@wanadoo.nl>

Theo wrote:
> From: Wout Blommers <blommoo at wanadoo.nl>
> <snip>
> > Head of Steim became Michael Waisvisz, a
> > composer who was well aware of the abilities of Midi.
> > He constructed a Midi Control devise, the 'Hands'
> > see;
> > http://home.wanadoo.nl/blommoo/TheHands.htm
> > A part of a study about the subject.
> > (Text Steim, photograph of gear, me)
>
> Mmm, I am not a fan of mr Waisvisz work.
> Puking over a walkman (he did on stage) is not my idea of musical
> expression.
> There was some one at Stanford or MIT (sorry forgot his name)
> who build (and recorded with) similar "hands".
> Think this was before Waisvisz.
> Makes mr Waisvisz a bit of a "look me too" artist.

>>>marjan<<< wrote:
> was that the guy who's been arrested for performing on those
> crackle boxes (or whatever the name is) in the woods ?

Well, it just illustrates what we're talking about, lately...
Anyway, I'm not judging anything nor anybody.
Back in 1968 I followed two years of lessons with Mr. Waisvizs,
when he was living in The Hague, at that moment the center of
all things about electronic music in The Netherlands.
He introduced me to the Theremin.

Indeed, he released the 'crackle box', bit if he was ever
arrested, I'm not sure. 

Wout


From rja at euronet.nl  Mon Mar 11 22:32:30 2002
From: rja at euronet.nl (Rick Jansen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:32:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] [ADMIN] Don't hit anybody where it hurts.... / Undelivered
 Mail Returned to Sender
References: <20020311184226.XWRU24554.out007.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <3C8D226E.819C9B19@euronet.nl>

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> 
> Maybe I don't get it, but posting art is probably
> not what is meant by "synth-diy".  

Agreed. 
Synth-diy is for discussing synthesizer electronics in a DIY context. 

Rick Jansen (synth-diy admin)
-- 
Web: http://www.euronet.nl/~rja/
email: rja at euronet.nl


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Mar 11 22:33:05 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:33:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
References: <B8B1CE12.2BCE%pgrenader@mksound.com> <01cf01c1c933$3e0514c0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
Message-ID: <3C8D228D.4D5EB75C@prodigy.net>

Hi everybody....

I read an article on Salon.com on the subject of NN and the nature
of the "art"...

Perhaps some oldsters remember John Cage's 4'33"  ???

The orchestra does not play... the music is performed by the
audience... by the end of the four and a half minutes... cries from
"Bravo" to "You Suck" probably abound....

The Salon.com article predicted and described our very reactions.

I'm just gonna sit back and watch... thanks.  But check out the article

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/03/01/netochka/index.html

H^) harry


Moho Disco wrote:

> > I completely agree with Grant's comments here.  Who (in the hell) are we
> to
> > judge?
>
> Oh come off it.  It's not like we're talking about
> morals or artistic integrity or some other earth
> shattering topic here.  All we are "judging" is the
> lack of any synth-DIY content (in an understandable
> format, I might add) in the poster's contributions.
> If you don't realize this as a basic tenet of this list,
> then, well, get a clue.
>
> Lava

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Mon Mar 11 22:34:16 2002
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:34:16 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Minimoog EG power question
References: <3C8C40AC.4C2F2A13@bency.com> <3C8CA0B7.2BE3BB7E@globalnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <010301c1c946$331432e0$0100a8c0@Tigger>

David,

> > I've built a Minimoog VCF and VCA using the schematics from the service
> > manual.
>
> Out of interest, and as something of a newbie, can anyone point me to
these schematics?

now heres a man who cant use a search engine...
;-)

David, ask me nicely and I'll send you a copy of the service guide, it might
take a week or two to copy at work (they're counting pages :-( ) but I can
do it...

as for the VCF, pah, look at your monowave...

Paul
______________________________________________
"I've seen the light at the end of the tunnel, And its blue!'

Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com




From moho at mohodisco.com  Mon Mar 11 23:04:48 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:04:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
References: <B8B1CE12.2BCE%pgrenader@mksound.com> <01cf01c1c933$3e0514c0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk> <3C8D228D.4D5EB75C@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <02bd01c1c948$c60acf30$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

Wow... so we should be so honored that our little
list was chosen.  Bravo... nicely done, NN...

Lava

----- Original Message -----
From: "harry" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
To: "synth-DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....


> Hi everybody....
>
> I read an article on Salon.com on the subject of NN and the nature
> of the "art"...
>
> Perhaps some oldsters remember John Cage's 4'33"  ???
>
> The orchestra does not play... the music is performed by the
> audience... by the end of the four and a half minutes... cries from
> "Bravo" to "You Suck" probably abound....
>
> The Salon.com article predicted and described our very reactions.
>
> I'm just gonna sit back and watch... thanks.  But check out the article
>
> http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/03/01/netochka/index.html
>
> H^) harry
>
>
> Moho Disco wrote:
>
> > > I completely agree with Grant's comments here.  Who (in the hell) are
we
> > to
> > > judge?
> >
> > Oh come off it.  It's not like we're talking about
> > morals or artistic integrity or some other earth
> > shattering topic here.  All we are "judging" is the
> > lack of any synth-DIY content (in an understandable
> > format, I might add) in the poster's contributions.
> > If you don't realize this as a basic tenet of this list,
> > then, well, get a clue.
> >
> > Lava
>
> --
> Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
> Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
> Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
> go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
> hide... how about YOU ???
>
>



From blommoo at wanadoo.nl  Mon Mar 11 23:25:15 2002
From: blommoo at wanadoo.nl (Wout Blommers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:25:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....]
Message-ID: <3C8D2ECB.F5FAA3D8@wanadoo.nl>

harry wrote:
> Perhaps some oldsters remember John Cage's 4'33"  ???

I do ;-)
 
> The orchestra does not play... the music is performed by the
> audience... by the end of the four and a half minutes... cries from
> "Bravo" to "You Suck" probably abound....

Well, actually 4'33" is more about the musical parameter
'silence', referring to its title...
The prediction came later, if that isn't a paradox :-)

Wout


From spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 11 23:37:23 2002
From: spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk (Steve Ridley)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:37:23 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] req : midi guitar info 
References: <01c1c242$66e50640$LocalHost@wefwf>
Message-ID: <001701c1c94d$50814b40$cfed883e@default>

I haven't tried this myself, but it looks interesting.  A colleague who
has tried it says it works.  It takes a standard (unmodified) guitar
and works out what's being played in software (allegedly).  There's
a demo version which is fairly slow, and a faster shareware version.

http://www.lateralsol.com/



Steve Ridley


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020311/2aa520a7/attachment.htm>

From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Mar 11 23:50:46 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:50:46 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Message-ID: <ca.7e8cf66.29be8ec6@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/11/02 1:43:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
music.maker at gte.net writes:


> If that's the case, then why
> not appreciate finding a cockroach in the sandwich you just
> bought at a restaurant?  

mmmm....PROTEIN! sorry,couldn't resist..

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020311/dbc980a1/attachment.htm>

From matti at devo.com  Mon Mar 11 23:59:40 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:59:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] sadly
In-Reply-To: <004801c1c939$617e98d0$0100a8c0@Tigger>
References: <004801c1c939$617e98d0$0100a8c0@Tigger>
Message-ID: <1015887580.3c8d36dc44150@whipit.devo.com>

Quoting Paul Maddox <Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com>:

> All,
> 
> sadly after stateing my opinions of this restate idiot, I got emailed
> a
> virus, awww..
> Shame Im a little brighter than the average net user, It was deleted
> before
> being  opened, and anyone I use virus software, sorry restate...
> 
> for anyone interested, the address had a blank email address (first
> dodgy
> sign) secondly it had an attachment, and no subject (geeze, you'll have
> to
> try harder than that)
> 
> the attachment is ;- PIBDAIPI.EXE
*snip*

I received the same .exe about a week ago or so; I can't remember whether it was
off of [AH] or [sdiy]. But then, I also can't remember whether either was in the
subject line.

enjoy


____________________________________________
devo.com: where the future is only a memory.


From matti at devo.com  Tue Mar 12 00:12:50 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti at devo.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:12:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <20020311184226.XWRU24554.out007.verizon.net@mail.lan>
References: <20020311184226.XWRU24554.out007.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <1015888370.3c8d39f2f3490@whipit.devo.com>

Quoting Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>:

> Well, last I checked, the list is "synth-diy".  I saw that the 
> post was something about a synth of some kind, but I can't 
> recall seeing anything do-it-yourself in the post.  Am I wrong 
> in my perception that diy means things like building, designing,
> troubleshooting, fixing...  those sorts of things done 
> "yourself"?  Maybe I don't get it, but posting art is probably
> not what is meant by "synth-diy".  There are better places for
> that, places where the audience expects and appreciates that.
> Ah, but one can say that the unexpected nature of it was what
> made it art in the first place.  If that's the case, then why
> not appreciate finding a cockroach in the sandwich you just
> bought at a restaurant?  Perhaps it was the chef's performance
*snip*

Appreciate it? Sure. I'd be disgusted, horrified, and maybe amused. I'd also
certainly not eat at this restaurant. That's not to say I'd eat the sandwich,
however. That's something else; I doubt as well the chef would presume the eater
would eat.

2 Cents Below
Hate it - ignore it. Find interest in it - don't ignore it.

enjoy

____________________________________________
devo.com: where the future is only a memory.


From aurastar at cox.net  Tue Mar 12 00:25:38 2002
From: aurastar at cox.net (DTK)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:25:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
Message-ID: <002601c1c954$0df54c20$3b460a44@hr.cox.net>

Ok, silly question time...

What's the difference between balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs?
What are the consequences of mixing the two? For example, using a mixer with
balanced inputs, and an instrument with unbalanced outputs?

Humor me, please :)

Thanks





From Ordeish at aol.com  Tue Mar 12 00:32:52 2002
From: Ordeish at aol.com (Ordeish at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:32:52 EST
Subject: [sdiy] yamaha cs30l...v/hz or v/octave?
Message-ID: <60.1c555ac1.29be98a4@aol.com>

 does anyone know? I tried to control it with my arp and it seemed to track decently. I am not sure though. does anyone know the specs.

thanks 
edward s.


From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Tue Mar 12 00:47:50 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:47:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DE7@lande11>

interesting you mention Bruford... he was given co-authorship on a King Crimson's live improvisational piece "Trio" for not playing anything; Robert Fripp said that he "wisely contributed silence" or something like that.

was not around when 4'33" came out but i've studied enuf 20th century art music and know the drill quite well.  a former professor of mine told me that he performed it on several occasions and the most common thing he heard were the old ladies either coughing or slowly unwrapping their hard candies / throat lozenges...

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Grenader
To: harry; synth-DIY
Sent: 3/11/2002 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....

on 3/11/02 2:33 PM, harry at harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:

> Perhaps some oldsters remember John Cage's 4'33"  ???

Ah...4 33...know it well.  Although passed off by many as pretentious
nonsense, it did it's job: the 'rests' in music are as important as the
notes.  Try telling this to Bill Bruford or Scarlatti,  for that matter!

I have the score to this piece at home actually (no, i'm not being a
smart
ass here, there was a score).

- Peter (45 years young and counting)






From cfmd at swipnet.se  Tue Mar 12 00:55:58 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:55:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
In-Reply-To: <B8B20E55.2C98%pgrenader@mksound.com>
References: <B8B1FD71.2C8B%pgrenader@mksound.com>
	<B8B20E55.2C98%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <20020312.005558.18283645.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Peter Grenader <pgrenader at mksound.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:33:41 -0700

> Wout brings up a good point here - 4 33 was a etude on silence, not 'rests'
> as I put it B4.
> 
> The piece was actually written for solo piano.  The performer sits on the
> piano stand and opens the the cover. 4 minutes and 33 seconds later, the
> performer closes the cover.   I have heard many different descriptions of
> the performance, including the performer holding their hand frozen above the
> keys for the duration, but this instruction is not listed in the notes.

I've seen it being performed with a smaller parade-band of some sort,
with a conductor... ensuring everyone paused on the beat! ;O)

Don't say Swedish national TV is all junk!

> The ulitmate in fluxus and painful to some for sure.  But hey...it only
> lasts 4 and a half minutes.  The antithesis surely being the work of LeMonte
> Young:  Two beading sine tones with no apparent envelope that shift a
> billionth of a 1/4 tone over a 30 minute period.
> 
> For me, Cage's work is much more thought-provoking than Young's.

I tend to aggree there.

Cheers,
Magnus


From CHoaglin at aol.com  Tue Mar 12 00:57:28 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:57:28 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Message-ID: <dc.1411b75c.29be9e68@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/11/02 6:33:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
pgrenader at mksound.com writes:


> Wout brings up a good point here - 4 33 was a etude on silence, not 'rests'
> as I put it B4.
> 
> The piece was actually written for solo piano.  The performer sits on the
> piano stand and opens the the cover. 4 minutes and 33 seconds later, the
> performer closes the cover.   I have heard many different descriptions of
> the performance, including the performer holding their hand frozen above the
> keys for the duration, but this instruction is not listed in the notes.
> 

This reminds me of a Type O Negative track called "the misinterpretation of 
silence and its disastrous consequences". 1:04 of silence in between two 
other tracks.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020311/c4e3a24e/attachment.htm>

From blommoo at wanadoo.nl  Tue Mar 12 01:17:25 2002
From: blommoo at wanadoo.nl (Wout Blommers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:17:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
References: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DE7@lande11>
Message-ID: <3C8D4915.761D1D80@wanadoo.nl>

mveneziale at LandAm.com wrote:
> was not around when 4'33" came out but i've studied enuf 20th century art music and know the drill quite well.  a former professor of mine told me that he performed it on several occasions and the most common thing he heard were the old ladies either coughing or slowly unwrapping their hard candies / throat lozenges...

Those ladies surely should have been removed by the riot squad!
4'33" is a time 'translation' of the temperature minus 273
Celsius,
in which conditions no molecular movement is possible 
and therefor no sound.

Freeze those ladies in ;-)
Anyway, now everybody understands why they were coughing
and moving so slowly...

Wout


From bobo at decapod.net  Tue Mar 12 01:24:09 2002
From: bobo at decapod.net (Bob Roesler)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:24:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
References: <B8B20E55.2C98%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <01f801c1c95c$3c724320$100400c0@killerobot.com>

LaMonte Young has performed some entirely enjoyable works.

The Forever Bad Blues Band Live at the Kitchen's "Just Stompin'" is a two
hour blues ditty that I can listen to often.

There is also a 5 hour solo piano performance recorded at the DIA foundation
some years ago that I like listening to.

Most of his work is in just intonation, which I don't know *too* much about,
but certainly makes for an unusual experience for people not accustomed to
it.

I even enjoy The First Dream of the High-Tension Line Stepdown Transformer,
though admittedly, I don't find myself listening to it with the same
frequency as the previous two recordings.

Anyway, just my opinion. I like the occasional Cage, too.

Bob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Grenader" <pgrenader at mksound.com>
To: "Peter Grenader" <pgrenader at mksound.com>; "harry"
<harrybissell at prodigy.net>; "synth-DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....


> Wout brings up a good point here - 4 33 was a etude on silence, not
'rests'
> as I put it B4.
>
> The piece was actually written for solo piano.  The performer sits on the
> piano stand and opens the the cover. 4 minutes and 33 seconds later, the
> performer closes the cover.   I have heard many different descriptions of
> the performance, including the performer holding their hand frozen above
the
> keys for the duration, but this instruction is not listed in the notes.
>
> The ulitmate in fluxus and painful to some for sure.  But hey...it only
> lasts 4 and a half minutes.  The antithesis surely being the work of
LeMonte
> Young:  Two beading sine tones with no apparent envelope that shift a
> billionth of a 1/4 tone over a 30 minute period.
>
> For me, Cage's work is much more thought-provoking than Young's.
>
>
> > on 3/11/02 2:33 PM, harry at harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
> >
> >> Perhaps some oldsters remember John Cage's 4'33"  ???
> >
> > Ah...4 33...know it well.  Although passed off by many as pretentious
> > nonsense, it did it's job: the 'rests' in music are as important as the
> > notes.  Try telling this to Bill Bruford or Scarlatti,  for that matter!
> >
> > I have the score to this piece at home actually (no, i'm not being a
smart
> > ass here, there was a score).
> >
> > - Peter (45 years young and counting)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 01:24:29 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:24:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
In-Reply-To: <002601c1c954$0df54c20$3b460a44@hr.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20020312002429.73342.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>

Naw, not silly. It goes like this:

Unbalanced, or single-ended, is a single wire plus a
ground to return current. the coax from your guitar is
an example.

Balanced lines are pairs of wires, usually twisted.
the signal differentially on the wires. That is, the
signal is on one wire, and the inverted signal is on
the other wire. A balanced input (like on a mixer)
subtracts the signal on the two wires, and this
difference is the result.

The reason for all this hassle is this: noise
rejection. Interference from the outside world will
appear on both wires equally. When subtracted, the
interference cancels out. Neat, yes?

To use an unbalanced line into a balanced input, you
could try attaching the unbalanced line to one of the
balanced lines, and ground the other side. This may
work, but there's a problem: balanced inputs tend to
be higher levels (+4 dBv) than the unbalanced ones
(-10dBv). 

Or you could go to Radio Shack and buy a
unbalanced-to-balanced adapter for about $20.

Does that help?

--TR


--- DTK <aurastar at cox.net> wrote:
> Ok, silly question time...
> 
> What's the difference between balanced and
> unbalanced inputs and outputs?
> What are the consequences of mixing the two? For
> example, using a mixer with
> balanced inputs, and an instrument with unbalanced
> outputs?
> 
> Humor me, please :)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From aurastar at cox.net  Tue Mar 12 02:30:19 2002
From: aurastar at cox.net (DTK)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:30:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
References: <20020312002429.73342.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002001c1c965$79e03060$3b460a44@hr.cox.net>


> To use an unbalanced line into a balanced input, you
> could try attaching the unbalanced line to one of the
> balanced lines, and ground the other side. This may
> work, but there's a problem: balanced inputs tend to
> be higher levels (+4 dBv) than the unbalanced ones
> (-10dBv).
>
> Or you could go to Radio Shack and buy a
> unbalanced-to-balanced adapter for about $20.

So If my instruments have unbalanced output, I can't use them with a mixer
that has balanced inputs unless I 1) modify the cable or 2) buy an adapter?

How can I tell what type of output my instruments have? I assume they're all
unbalanced, but I don't know how to check. It's not it the manuals...




From oleicm at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 12 02:42:47 2002
From: oleicm at hotmail.com (Matt Olech)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:42:47 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <F198Cs8SlIZaoRdITbl00007e1c@hotmail.com>

unsubscribe

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



From n0nspaz at mindspring.com  Tue Mar 12 06:08:16 2002
From: n0nspaz at mindspring.com (markus)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:08:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
In-Reply-To: <002001c1c965$79e03060$3b460a44@hr.cox.net>
References: <20020312002429.73342.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020312000657.00cd7850@pop.mindspring.com>

a nice, simple DIY project would be an unbalanced-to-balanced converter 
(like a DI box). lmk off-list if you need schematics & help.

cheers
mark


At 08:30 PM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:

> > To use an unbalanced line into a balanced input, you
> > could try attaching the unbalanced line to one of the
> > balanced lines, and ground the other side. This may
> > work, but there's a problem: balanced inputs tend to
> > be higher levels (+4 dBv) than the unbalanced ones
> > (-10dBv).
> >
> > Or you could go to Radio Shack and buy a
> > unbalanced-to-balanced adapter for about $20.
>
>So If my instruments have unbalanced output, I can't use them with a mixer
>that has balanced inputs unless I 1) modify the cable or 2) buy an adapter?
>
>How can I tell what type of output my instruments have? I assume they're all
>unbalanced, but I don't know how to check. It's not it the manuals...




From thescum at surfree.com  Tue Mar 12 06:39:18 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:39:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020312053918.0091acf4@smtp.surfree.com>

>So If my instruments have unbalanced output, I can't use them with a mixer
>that has balanced inputs unless I 1) modify the cable or 2) buy an adapter?

It often works well enough to just patch 'em together.  On smaller mixers,
the 1/4" inputs are often unbalanced, though the XLR will be balanced.

>How can I tell what type of output my instruments have? I assume they're all
>unbalanced, but I don't know how to check. It's not it the manuals...

Most instruments will have unbalanced outputs.  A few high-end synths have
balanced outputs (Roland Juputer-8 and Kurzweil 2500), but they'll make a
big deal out of it in the manuals.  Balanced outputs are often on XLR jacks,
though occasionally they're on TRS 1/4"s.

A sneaky way to tell of the 1/4" is balanced: plug an unbalanced cable into
it about 1/2 way.  The cable will sorta click there, and you'll be able to
hear output...bingo, you've found the negative side of a balanced pair.

Byron Jacquot



From jamos at technotoys.com  Tue Mar 12 06:55:46 2002
From: jamos at technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:55:46 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Source for Roland screws?
Message-ID: <200203112155460990.07E9F596@161.58.178.202>

OK, just try searching the AH archives for "Roland" and "screw" and see how
many hits you get - 

Anyway, I need to find some front-panes screws fro Roland gear,
specifically, the CSQ-100. I've seen similar screws on other old Roland
gear. I need four of the wide-thread screws for fastening the front panels
to plastic endcaps, and four of the tighter-threaded metal screws Sorry, my
grasp of the terminology is way poor. Anyone have a box of Roland junk
parts they could dig into for me?

TIA




Jim Johnson 
Metaphoric Software
-------------------
Makers of Techno Toys
Software for Electronic Music
http://www.technotoys.com
info at technotoys.com




From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Tue Mar 12 08:04:23 2002
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:04:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Pinout for japanese transistors
Message-ID: <OF700E3C97.5DE6E722-ONC1256B7A.0026851F@idg.se>

Hi everybody. I need the pinout for the following japanese transistors:

2sk30a
2sa1015
2sc828rnz

They are used in the TR-808.
Any ideas where I can find it?

I also need to know if the 2sk30a (FET) need to be selected. And in that
case, how do you select them? I think there is some colour code in the
schematics.

/Jorgen



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Tue Mar 12 08:20:08 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:20:08 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Message-ID: <fd.14cb016d.29bf0628@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/11/02 9:51:05 AM, grichter at asapnet.net writes:

<< Judging from the hostile response, there is no wonder that women artists
don't post here. >>

Don't be ridiculous.  This has nothing to do with gender.  I had no idea they 
were female.  That *person* is the most annoying thing that has ever crossed 
these wires (I've been here since '96), and they are deliberately provoking 
us.  Arty-schmarty, I say.  If they want to play in this sandbox, let's see 
them contibute something useful and/or on-topic.  I don't condone retaliatory 
action, though (mail bombs, etc.).  I bet if we stop posting commentary about 
them, they will go away - because they certainly aren't here to discuss 
boring old synth-DIY stuff.

Mike B.


From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Tue Mar 12 08:30:57 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:30:57 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Message-ID: <d1.154cf4e5.29bf08b1@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/11/02 3:33:38 PM, pgrenader at mksound.com writes:

<< The antithesis surely being the work of LeMonte
Young:  Two beading sine tones with no apparent envelope that shift a
billionth of a 1/4 tone over a 30 minute period. >>

Holy crap!  I want one of those VCO's!  Even Paul Schreiber would have to 
give props.

Mike B.

P.S. - It'd have to have a saw output, though.


From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Tue Mar 12 08:46:10 2002
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:46:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Pinout for japanese transistors
Message-ID: <OF5DA8EDC6.7BECC0C3-ONC1256B7A.002A9604@idg.se>


>The 2SK30A is Pin 1 = source  pin 2 = gate  pin 3 = drain
>The 2SA1015 is pin 1 = emitter  pin 2 = collector  pin 3 = base

Thanks for the info, but how do you count the pins? From which side are you
viewing the tranny when you count them?

/Jorgen



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Tue Mar 12 08:55:52 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:55:52 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Top-octave CPLD
Message-ID: <a8.7efd835.29bf0e88@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/10/02 6:57:39 PM, madhun2001 at yahoo.com writes:

<< That reminds me: I am thinkin about doing a top-octave
CPLD. I'd be a non-direct replacement for the old
Mostek 50240 part. I may even be able to do the 70/30
option. No promises, but hey, I'm good at this. May
have to be 2 chips for the 70/30 option.
 >>

If you want it to replace old 50240 chips, then be sure that it can be 
externally clocked.  Some list members have talked about doing a similar type 
of thing, but using a fixed-frequency master clock (such as a CPU clock 
crystal).  This would be useless in most repair applications, not to mention 
any DIY app where you might want to modulate/vibrato the master pitch, or 
just have some simple master tuning control.

Please keep us posted on your progress!

Mike B.


From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 12 09:15:35 2002
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 9:15:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Pinout for japanese transistors
Message-ID: <20020312081535.LGPN24936.fep08-svc.ttyl.com@localhost>

Hi Jorgen,

I have just checked on www.partminer.com and I found the datasheets for all of those devices on there. You'll need to take a minute to register but it's well worth it. If you encounter difficulty I could get the .pdf's myself and email them to you, but I doubt you'll have any trouble finding them. 

Cheers

Trevor

> 
> From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se
> Date: Tue 12/Mar/2002 08:04 CET
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Pinout for japanese transistors
> 
> Hi everybody. I need the pinout for the following japanese transistors:
> 
> 2sk30a
> 2sa1015
> 2sc828rnz
> 
> They are used in the TR-808.
> Any ideas where I can find it?
> 
> I also need to know if the 2sk30a (FET) need to be selected. And in that
> case, how do you select them? I think there is some colour code in the
> schematics.
> 
> /Jorgen
> 
> 
> 


_______________________________________________________________________
Never pay another Internet phone bill!
Freeserve AnyTime, for all the Internet access you want, day and night, only ?12.99 per month.
Sign-up at http://www.freeserve.com/time/anytime




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 09:22:45 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:22:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
In-Reply-To: <002001c1c965$79e03060$3b460a44@hr.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20020312082245.76559.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>

Simple (ha! like anything in this game is simple...)

If its a 3-pin XLR connector (like on expensive mics)
then its balanced. Its its a 1/4" jack like on a
guitar, count the rings in the end. If there are 2
rings plus the barrel then its probably balanced. Or
stereo. If theres one ring plus the barrel then its
unbalanced.

--tr

--- DTK <aurastar at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> So If my instruments have unbalanced output, I can't
> use them with a mixer
> that has balanced inputs unless I 1) modify the
> cable or 2) buy an adapter?
> 
> How can I tell what type of output my instruments
> have? I assume they're all
> unbalanced, but I don't know how to check. It's not
> it the manuals...
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com  Tue Mar 12 09:31:18 2002
From: Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com (Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:31:18 +0100
Subject: Antwort: [sdiy] Pinout for japanese transistors
Message-ID: <0057440008311281000002L412*@MHS>

Hello!

for the 828 one try this :

http://www.ucm.es/info/electron/laboratorio/componentes/transistores/ctype.htm

for the sk30 try searching the web too - should be out there

bye
Christian


From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Tue Mar 12 09:45:27 2002
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:45:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Pinout for japanese transistors
Message-ID: <OF236C044F.4EC6F016-ONC1256B7A.002FA07A@idg.se>


Thanks everybody for the pinout of the japanese transistors.

I now just need to find out if the 2SK30 FET needs to be selected. I think
there was a discussion here a while ago about the colour codes that Roland
used for the FETs.
I think they tested them and marked them with different colours, depending
on some parameter (pinch-off voltage?). There are two letters in
parenthesis in the schematics, that I think is a colour code.
It would be excellent if someone had a circuit for measuring the critical
parameter too.

/Jorgen



From mikko.a.helin at nokia.com  Tue Mar 12 10:15:04 2002
From: mikko.a.helin at nokia.com (mikko.a.helin at nokia.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:15:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
Message-ID: <0AA9E01B31168E42A308714A6EF271841E9D05@trebe002.NOE.Nokia.com>


It's quite easy to convert unbalanced output to impedance-balanced output just by connecting the output to (+) pin of XLR connector and connecting the (-) pin to ground via a resistor which matches the output impedance of the device. If that can' be exactly known or measured then use some value of 60 ohms to 600 ohms (or something in between).
-Mikko

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext DTK [mailto:aurastar at cox.net]
> Sent: 12. March 2002 1:26
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
> 
> 
> Ok, silly question time...
> 
> What's the difference between balanced and unbalanced inputs 
> and outputs?
> What are the consequences of mixing the two? For example, 
> using a mixer with
> balanced inputs, and an instrument with unbalanced outputs?
> 
> Humor me, please :)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 


From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Tue Mar 12 10:38:36 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:38:36 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] scotchcal or similar
Message-ID: <200203120938.g2C9cZo12437@dm.hotkey.net.au>

I'm looking for info on a photosensitive foil for doing custom graphics that
can be stuck to a backing panel. There used to be one called scotchcal, but
I'm having trouble finding any current scotch prudcut that matches it.

Cheers,

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From Ordeish at aol.com  Tue Mar 12 11:36:01 2002
From: Ordeish at aol.com (Ordeish at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:36:01 EST
Subject: [sdiy] is ceramic capacitor #502 replaceable by #472?
Message-ID: <16.1b8beb36.29bf3411@aol.com>

 Hi I was wondering if anyone knew if they were interchangeable. I am doing my first kit. (paia midi2cv8) and it calls for #502, but it came with #472. is it a mistake or is it a replacement?

thanks
edward s.


From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Tue Mar 12 12:08:18 2002
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:08:18 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] ADMIN MSG: restate messages
References: <3C8D1502.CE0E110C@euronet.nl>
Message-ID: <3C8DE1A0.2CFB432F@club-internet.fr>



> Dear all,
>
> PLEASE don't reply to those messages by this restate
> person. Unfortunately spammers have found this list too.
>

I agree 100% with Rick on this issue.
It doesn't take long to see the real goals of such messages
behind the pseuso "arty attitude" and "freedom of speech" :

1) this person gets (at least) 10 angry / amused / offended
reactions for each message posted, and therefore increases
the list traffic by several orders of magnitude (this happened
on other lists before such as music-dsp, and just check the
number of posts on synth-diy during the past few days),
which clutters the members mailboxes and is the best way
to destroy a list : I'm not kidding : several members have
unsubed other lists in similar circumstances...

2) at the same time she (or her posts) becomes the center of
all discussions and the number of really on-topic posts drops.

So the best things you can do is :
1- ignore all her messages (unless they're really on-topic)
2- if you don't want to take any risk, set up your email filter
so that all these messages are sent straight to the bin.

Fortunately, this will be my only post on that topic.
And please, don't reply to it (or off-list if you really need it),
as I don't want to generate any more traffic.

Thanks.
JB





From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Tue Mar 12 14:09:27 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:09:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] is ceramic capacitor #502 replaceable by #472?
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A6818@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

I've never seen 5nF capacitor (502). They allways are 4.7nF (472).
Even if there were 5nF, difference is smaller than capacitor tolerance
itself - 10% usually.
Go ahead and use it.

Roman

""-----Original Message-----
""From: Ordeish at aol.com [mailto:Ordeish at aol.com]
""Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:36 AM
""To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
""Subject: [sdiy] is ceramic capacitor #502 replaceable by #472?
""
""
"" Hi I was wondering if anyone knew if they were 
""interchangeable. I am doing my first kit. (paia midi2cv8) and 
""it calls for #502, but it came with #472. is it a mistake or 
""is it a replacement?
""
""thanks
""edward s.
""
""
""---------------------------------------------------------
""This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
""
""Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
""oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
""


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Tue Mar 12 14:45:06 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:45:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Don't hit anybody where it hurts....
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DE9@lande11>

Wout says:

-----
Those ladies surely should have been removed by the riot squad!
4'33" is a time 'translation' of the temperature minus 273
Celsius,
in which conditions no molecular movement is possible 
and therefor no sound.

Freeze those ladies in ;-)
-----

to borrow a phrase from The Ladies' Man, "uhhh yeeeah, dat sounds reeeal good..."  :-D  i tell you, that first line made my morning.

this brings up an interesting point though.  who is supposed to be frozen?  is it just the performer or the audience as well?


From media.nai at rcn.com  Tue Mar 12 17:07:48 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:07:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Source for Roland screws?
In-Reply-To: <200203112155460990.07E9F596@161.58.178.202>
Message-ID: <v03130300b8b38311dcf0@208.58.250.155>

At 9:55 PM -0800 03/11/02, Jim Johnson wrote:
>
>OK, just try searching the AH archives for "Roland" and "screw" and see how
>many hits you get -

Maybe a search for "screw Roland" would yield more results :)

>Anyway, I need to find some front-panes screws fro Roland gear,
>specifically, the CSQ-100. I've seen similar screws on other old Roland
>gear. I need four of the wide-thread screws for fastening the front panels
>to plastic endcaps,

Those are called "sheet metal screws".

>and four of the tighter-threaded metal screws

Those are called "machine screws".

>Sorry, my grasp of the terminology is way poor. Anyone have a box of
>Roland >junk parts they could dig into for me?

I have a bunch of Roland replacement parts but no fasteners.  I would get a
screw guide, use it to match the size and threads, then buy generic
replacements.  Or you could go to a hardware store or motorcycle shop and
try to match them up by hand.







From media.nai at rcn.com  Tue Mar 12 17:07:53 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:07:53 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
In-Reply-To: <002001c1c965$79e03060$3b460a44@hr.cox.net>
References: <20020312002429.73342.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <v03130301b8b3858e728c@208.58.250.155>

At 8:30 PM -0500 03/11/02, DTK wrote:
>
>> To use an unbalanced line into a balanced input, you
>> could try attaching the unbalanced line to one of the
>> balanced lines, and ground the other side. This may
>> work, but there's a problem: balanced inputs tend to
>> be higher levels (+4 dBv) than the unbalanced ones
>> (-10dBv).

So turn up the gain :)

>> Or you could go to Radio Shack and buy a
>> unbalanced-to-balanced adapter for about $20.

That's usually unnecessary.  If impedance matching or ground loops become
an issue, Markertek sells a variety of transformer adapters.

>So If my instruments have unbalanced output, I can't use them with a mixer
>that has balanced inputs unless I 1) modify the cable or 2) buy an adapter?

No, you can plug an unbalanced TS cable into a balanced TRS line input and
it should work fine.  I do it all the time.  Obviously, you need an adapter
in order to go from 1/4" to XLR -- the jack won't fit :)  Then again,
Neutrik now makes 3-conductor jacks that can accept both 1/4" and XLR.

I'd check out to Rane's website.  They used to have this nice wiring chart
you could print up.  You might also want to check out the ProCo and Mackie
websites -- I've seen wiring charts from them too.

>How can I tell what type of output my instruments have? I assume
>they're all unbalanced, but I don't know how to check. It's not it the
>>manuals...

It should be in the manuals!!  It also should be written on the chassis
next to the jacks.  XLR is almost always balanced.  Most musical
instruments with 1/4" jacks are unbalanced.  Balanced 1/4" jacks have an
extra click when you insert a plug.  If you use short runs of quality cable
in a decent environment, none of this should be an issue.

You want to go from a lower output impedance to a higher input impedance.
I've never seen a line input that didn't have a higher impedance than a
line output, including the outputs of consumer gear and electronic musical
instruments.  The only way you can get into real trouble is if you try to
run a line output into a the low impedance input of a mic pre, but such
inputs are never 1/4".





From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Tue Mar 12 17:58:11 2002
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:58:11 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Balanced/unbalanced inputs?
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b3858e728c@208.58.250.155>
References: <002001c1c965$79e03060$3b460a44@hr.cox.net>
 <20020312002429.73342.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020312115811.007cba70@hoohahrecords.com>

At 11:07 AM 3/12/02 -0500, media.nai at rcn.com wrote:
>At 8:30 PM -0500 03/11/02, DTK wrote:
>>
>>> To use an unbalanced line into a balanced input, you
>>> could try attaching the unbalanced line to one of the
>>> balanced lines, and ground the other side. This may
>>> work, but there's a problem: balanced inputs tend to
>>> be higher levels (+4 dBv) than the unbalanced ones
>>> (-10dBv).
>
>So turn up the gain :)
>
>>> Or you could go to Radio Shack and buy a
>>> unbalanced-to-balanced adapter for about $20.



Those Radioshack transformers sound pretty crappy.  The frequency response
is bad: instant telephone-sound.  I have an article somewhere by Scott
Dorsey.  It's a very simple FET-based balanced line driver.  He acutally
builds it on a tiny perfboard and mounts it inside of the case from one of
those Radioshack transformers.   Phantom powered IIRC.  If you need
details, email offlist and I'll try to find the schematics. 






Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From colin at colinfraser.com  Tue Mar 12 18:23:23 2002
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:23:23 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Pinout for japanese transistors
In-Reply-To: <OF236C044F.4EC6F016-ONC1256B7A.002FA07A@idg.se>
Message-ID: <000001c1c9ea$9d038b70$f61e68d5@zen>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of 
> jorgen.bergfors at idg.se
> Sent: 12 March 2002 8:45
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Pinout for japanese transistors
> 
> I now just need to find out if the 2SK30 FET needs to be 
> selected. I think
> there was a discussion here a while ago about the colour 
> codes that Roland
> used for the FETs.

If you're just using them in the mute circuits used in the 808, they
don't need to be selected, and many similar FETs will do.

Colin f



From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Tue Mar 12 18:44:48 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (oleavitt at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:44:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] is ceramic capacitor #502 replaceable by #472?
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.1015955088.0.88915300@www.springmail.com>

That should work fine.

Kit makers, like PAiA http://www.paia.com , will often substitute non-critical components with a close match - ceramic capacitors are most often sub'd.
IIRC, PAiA does mention that fact somewhere in your kit instructions.

Best Regards,
Oren Leavitt

Ordeish at aol.com wrote:
>  Hi I was wondering if anyone knew if they were interchangeable. I am doing my first kit. (paia midi2cv8) and it calls for #502, but it came with #472. is it a mistake or is it a replacement?

thanks
edward s.



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 19:55:36 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:55:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] TOG news
In-Reply-To: <002001c1c965$79e03060$3b460a44@hr.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20020312185536.82590.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Yo,

Well, after spending all morning wrestling with
software, I have a notion of the relative sizes of the
dividers that are needed to do a top-octave gennie. It
takes 10 macrocells to do a divider: nine for the
counter and one for the output compare. Its a problem
of the odd-ball counts. For example: for the C# output
I need a counter that resets at 451. But we want a
square wave on the output, so I need a magnatude
comparator set to go high with an input <= 225, that
being half of 451.

So 10 macrocells per output * 11 outputs = 110
macrocells. An XC95108 has 108 macrocells.

Just my luck.

So I can split the design into two smaller parts which
have 72 macrocells. And then I can take the advice of
Mr Blackett and put divider chains on each output.
Looks like I can put 2 divide-bys on each output. 

There is a problem with using all the macrocells,
however. The software has trouble routing all the
stuff when you use every last bit. It gets worse if
you try and have outputs come out of the chip in a
sensible order, rather that all willy-nilly as the
tool will do if left on its own.

This is not as easy as it looks!

--TR

*********************************************
Its not the despair; I can handle the despair
*********************************************



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From moho at mohodisco.com  Tue Mar 12 20:32:13 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:32:13 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
References: <20020312185536.82590.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00f501c1c9fc$a87165b0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

What would you say is a harder task to build
from the ground up, assuming all skills needed
are posessed, and money is not an issue:

A digital synth like a Virus

or

An analog synth like a Pro-one

Thanks,

Lava


From patchell at silcom.com  Tue Mar 12 21:07:35 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:07:35 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
References: <20020312185536.82590.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <00f501c1c9fc$a87165b0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
Message-ID: <3C8E6007.95107942@silcom.com>

    Digital synths are more software than hardware (generally a fast DSP
chip), so from that point of view, a digital synth would probably be
easier...except, now I sound like a manager..."Heck, it can't cost all
that much to do the job...afterall, it is all software!"

Moho Disco wrote:

> What would you say is a harder task to build
> from the ground up, assuming all skills needed
> are posessed, and money is not an issue:
>
> A digital synth like a Virus
>
> or
>
> An analog synth like a Pro-one
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lava

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From moho at mohodisco.com  Tue Mar 12 21:16:15 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:16:15 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
References: <20020312185536.82590.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <00f501c1c9fc$a87165b0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk> <3C8E6007.95107942@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <011a01c1ca02$c6a59410$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

That's what I suspected...  easier on the soldering
end, harder on the coding end.  I should open up
my Virus and look at it...  

Has anybody on this list built a complex digital
hardware synth?  

Lava

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "patchell" <patchell at silcom.com>
To: "Moho Disco" <moho at mohodisco.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Question:


>     Digital synths are more software than hardware (generally a fast DSP
> chip), so from that point of view, a digital synth would probably be
> easier...except, now I sound like a manager..."Heck, it can't cost all
> that much to do the job...afterall, it is all software!"
> 
> Moho Disco wrote:
> 
> > What would you say is a harder task to build
> > from the ground up, assuming all skills needed
> > are posessed, and money is not an issue:
> >
> > A digital synth like a Virus
> >
> > or
> >
> > An analog synth like a Pro-one
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Lava
> 
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> 


From thescum at surfree.com  Tue Mar 12 22:06:51 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (thescum at surfree.com)
Date: 12 Mar 2002 13:06:51 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
Message-ID: <20020312210651.7624.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net>

> What would you say is a harder task to build
> from the ground up, assuming all skills needed
> are posessed, and money is not an issue:
> 
> A digital synth like a Virus
> or
> An analog synth like a Pro-one

If you have all the skills needed, then they're both similarly easy.  A lot of parts of both projects would be similar.  They both need power supplies, a case, and a control panel.  They'll both be filled with circuit boards and electronic components.

The theoretical design of analog oscillators and filters is reasonably similar to the design of digital oscillators and filters.  They both also have some tricky aspects: numeric accuracy & precision in DSP schemes, temperature compensation in analog circuits.

The analog synth will probably contain more components overall, which require more mechanical and hardware design attention & debugging.  It's also easier to interface panel controls with analog circuits.  A DSP synth may only contain a few ICs, and have simple hardware, but the software will be considerably more complex, and hooking panel controls to the "modules" is more roundabout.

This is assuming you'd use an off-the-shelf DSP...spinning your own would be substantially more intensive!

One thing to keep in mind, though not really a diffuculty issue: DSPs get faster every year.  If you started with a design for an n-voice polysynth, by the time you sinished the project, the next generation of faster DSPs would be out.  You might be able to double your polyphony with minimal redesign.  That might be a cool bonus for the project!

Byron Jacquot




From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 12 22:18:27 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:18:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
Message-ID: <F181Rvbc6X0ZB9zBoDy0000a1ca@hotmail.com>

I question the "all skills possessed" assumption...

I think the Analog Synth could be done in less man
hours than the digital synth...

If you had a lot of experience in digital (legacy
code that could be reused...) you might change the
picture. I see the digital synth as having a huge
investment in intellectual property.

(more than I could get in 100 years so I go analog...)

H^) harry


>From: "Moho Disco" <moho at mohodisco.com>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: [sdiy] Question:
>Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:32:13 -0800
>
>What would you say is a harder task to build
>from the ground up, assuming all skills needed
>are posessed, and money is not an issue:
>
>A digital synth like a Virus
>
>or
>
>An analog synth like a Pro-one
>
>Thanks,
>
>Lava




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com  Tue Mar 12 22:33:05 2002
From: Paul.Maddox at wavesynth.com (Paul Maddox)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:33:05 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] signal to noise ratio
Message-ID: <010c01c1ca0d$7febf400$0100a8c0@Tigger>

Dear all,

 Im leaving the list for a while, Ive got stuff to work on and the signal to
noise ratio is just too bad on here at the moment

Paul
______________________________________________
"I've seen the light at the end of the tunnel, And its blue!'

Wavesynth home page;-
    Http://www.wavesynth.com
Modulus synthesizers home page;-
    Http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com
PPG Synthesizer pages;-
    Http://www.PPG.wavesynth.com




From moho at mohodisco.com  Tue Mar 12 22:46:11 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:46:11 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
References: <20020312210651.7624.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net>
Message-ID: <017c01c1ca0f$56c44cb0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

>
> This is assuming you'd use an off-the-shelf DSP...spinning your own would
be substantially more intensive!
>

What would you consider "off-the-shelf" DSP?

Lava



From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Tue Mar 12 23:37:17 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:37:17 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] TOG news
Message-ID: <200203122237.g2CMbHj23284@dm.hotkey.net.au>

>So 10 macrocells per output * 11 outputs = 110
>macrocells. An XC95108 has 108 macrocells.

Excuse me if I'm being dense, but you would need 12 outputs, not 11,
bringing you up to 120 cells needed.

Ken

_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Tue Mar 12 23:40:45 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:40:45 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Source for Roland screws?
Message-ID: <200203122240.g2CMeij23759@dm.hotkey.net.au>

The machine screws are just generic metric threads, 3mm, 4mm etc.

Ken

>At 9:55 PM -0800 03/11/02, Jim Johnson wrote:
>>
>>OK, just try searching the AH archives for "Roland" and "screw" and see how
>>many hits you get -
>
>Maybe a search for "screw Roland" would yield more results :)
>
>>Anyway, I need to find some front-panes screws fro Roland gear,
>>specifically, the CSQ-100. I've seen similar screws on other old Roland
>>gear. I need four of the wide-thread screws for fastening the front panels
>>to plastic endcaps,
>
>Those are called "sheet metal screws".
>
>>and four of the tighter-threaded metal screws
>
>Those are called "machine screws".
>
>>Sorry, my grasp of the terminology is way poor. Anyone have a box of
>>Roland >junk parts they could dig into for me?
>
>I have a bunch of Roland replacement parts but no fasteners.  I would get a
>screw guide, use it to match the size and threads, then buy generic
>replacements.  Or you could go to a hardware store or motorcycle shop and
>try to match them up by hand.
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From patchell at silcom.com  Tue Mar 12 23:47:45 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:47:45 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
References: <20020312210651.7624.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net> <017c01c1ca0f$56c44cb0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
Message-ID: <3C8E8591.FE1D2A4@silcom.com>

    DSP chips are made primarily by:Analog Devices (Sharc, etc), Texas
Instruments (TMS320), Motorolla (DSP56xxx).  Any of the high performance parts
from these companies will work.  Some of the supply eval boards that have a
DSP, and an AD/DA converter on it.  This might be a cheap and easy way to get
into the Digital synth arena.

    And if you want to roll your own DSP, the either the Xilinx Virtex or the
Altera ACEX FPGA's are a good choice (it is increadible what you can do with
just, oh, say 100,000 gates).  :-)

Moho Disco wrote:

> >
> > This is assuming you'd use an off-the-shelf DSP...spinning your own would
> be substantially more intensive!
> >
>
> What would you consider "off-the-shelf" DSP?
>
> Lava

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 12 23:53:14 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:53:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] TOG news
In-Reply-To: <200203122237.g2CMbHj23284@dm.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020312225314.44961.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>

Ken,

Okay, so I can't count! I'm still a damn fine
engineer!

(sigh)

Yes, there are 12, not 11. Thanks for pointing it out.
It would have been even more embarrassing to get the
programming done and the boards made with this little
error. 

But then, who uses D# anyway?

--TR

--- Ken Stone <sasami at hotkey.net.au> wrote:
> >So 10 macrocells per output * 11 outputs = 110
> >macrocells. An XC95108 has 108 macrocells.
> 
> Excuse me if I'm being dense, but you would need 12
> outputs, not 11,
> bringing you up to 120 cells needed.
> 
> Ken
> 
>
_______________________________________________________________________
> Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
> Modular Synth PCBs for sale
> <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies
> <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From groovyshaman at snet.net  Wed Mar 13 00:00:28 2002
From: groovyshaman at snet.net (George Kisslak)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:00:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Preamp Module
Message-ID: <04e201c1ca19$b4ecde60$15cda8c0@groovyshaman.com>

Hello All,

I've been thinking of building an audio preamp module for my MOTM setup, to
hold me over until Paul releases his planned module.  A simple inverting-amp
and inverting-follower design is what I was thinking.  (I think I said that
right. :)  A variable gain control and an input impedance selection switch
would be bonus (but I don't know if I'm sharp enough to pull that off).
The input devices are: coil-pickup guitar, line-in, and piezoelectric
transducer.

So I'm wondering, which op-amp(s) might be best for this application?  I
know this is probably trivial to most of you, but I'm still ramping up the
learning curve.  I've seen OP275/285, LM833, TL081/71/51, and RC4558 used
successfully in various designs.  There are most likely others that could be
utilized as well.  I'm unsure in some cases why certain op-amps were chosen,
although probably due to cost and availability.  (I'm not too worried about
cost.)  I know that in one design, the 4558 was utilized in order to capture
the necessary sound characteristics.

I'm sure you each have your own opinions on this... I'm hoping you might
share them.  :)

George



From amajorel at teaser.fr  Wed Mar 13 01:25:02 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:25:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Preamp Module
In-Reply-To: <04e201c1ca19$b4ecde60$15cda8c0@groovyshaman.com>; from groovyshaman@snet.net on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 06:00:28PM -0500
References: <04e201c1ca19$b4ecde60$15cda8c0@groovyshaman.com>
Message-ID: <20020313012502.B659@teaser.fr>

On 2002-03-12 18:00 -0500, George Kisslak wrote:

> I've been thinking of building an audio preamp module for my MOTM setup, to
> hold me over until Paul releases his planned module.  A simple inverting-amp
> and inverting-follower design is what I was thinking.  (I think I said that
> right. :)  A variable gain control and an input impedance selection switch
> would be bonus (but I don't know if I'm sharp enough to pull that off).
> The input devices are: coil-pickup guitar, line-in, and piezoelectric
> transducer.
> 
> So I'm wondering, which op-amp(s) might be best for this application?  I
> know this is probably trivial to most of you, but I'm still ramping up the
> learning curve.  I've seen OP275/285, LM833, TL081/71/51, and RC4558 used
> successfully in various designs.

Amateur opinion : 4558 doesn't have a terrific reputation. For a
preamp, low noise is important so a 5532 might be good.

Also, the characteristics of the preamp might depend on the
source. I'm told that electric guitars need a very high input
impedance (> 100 k) for best results.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Mar 13 02:08:46 2002
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:08:46 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020313010846.01259e9c@popa.melbpc.org.au>

At 02:47 PM 12/03/02 -0800, Jim Patchell wrote:
>    DSP chips are made primarily by:Analog Devices (Sharc, etc), Texas
>Instruments (TMS320), Motorolla (DSP56xxx).  Any of the high performance parts
>from these companies will work.  Some of the supply eval boards that have a
>DSP, and an AD/DA converter on it.  This might be a cheap and easy way to get
>into the Digital synth arena.
...A friend made a very good mono DSP synth from a Motorola DSP56003 kit.
The good thing abt the eval kit, is that all the codec is there & laid out in a
noise-free way (not a trivial task).

paul perry (Melb Aust)



From ka4hjh at gte.net  Wed Mar 13 02:53:24 2002
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:53:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] TOG news
In-Reply-To: <20020312225314.44961.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020312225314.44961.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p05100302b8b46143d602@[67.200.137.7]>

>Yes, there are 12, not 11. Thanks for pointing it out.
>It would have been even more embarrassing to get the
>programming done and the boards made with this little
>error.
>
>But then, who uses D# anyway?

But what if you want a replacement for one of those TOG's with 13 outputs?  8^D
-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"There is no Main Street anymore except at Disneyland--and try and buy a
gun there"--Hank Hill


From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Wed Mar 13 02:59:14 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:59:14 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
References: <20020312185536.82590.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <00f501c1c9fc$a87165b0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk> <3C8E6007.95107942@silcom.com> <011a01c1ca02$c6a59410$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
Message-ID: <003901c1ca32$adaa9de0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

A design group has formed. Check out "Opensynth" group.

Send OpenSynth mailing list submissions to
opensynth at hotswap.cs.tum.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://hotswap.cs.tum.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensynth
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
opensynth-request at hotswap.cs.tum.edu

You can reach the person managing the list at
opensynth-admin at hotswap.cs.tum.edu

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OpenSynth digest..."


John


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Moho Disco <moho at mohodisco.com>
To: patchell <patchell at silcom.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Question:
> 
> Has anybody on this list built a complex digital
> hardware synth?  
> 
> Lava




From voltagecontrolled at cox.net  Wed Mar 13 04:11:25 2002
From: voltagecontrolled at cox.net (Buck Buchanan)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:11:25 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
References: <20020312185536.82590.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <00f501c1c9fc$a87165b0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
Message-ID: <3C8EC35D.8080402@cox.net>

Moho Disco wrote:

> What would you say is a harder task to build
> from the ground up, assuming all skills needed
> are posessed, and money is not an issue:
> A digital synth like a Virus
> An analog synth like a Pro-one



Assuming * posessing all skills needed*, I would probably vote digital.

However, in real life, I think it's probably a matter of what skills you 
actually have that determines it.

Who was it that said, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, 
everything looks like a nail"?  My hammer looks a lot like analog 
tools/experience and my nails look like caps, OP-AMPs, etc.

But I think it was somebody here on this list who's made a MIDI synth 
out of a SID chip (Commodor computer sound chip) and I know there are 
other digital SDIYers.  Their hammers look a lot different.

_Buck (needing more hammers)






From jpellin at iname.com  Wed Mar 13 04:41:15 2002
From: jpellin at iname.com (Jeremiah Pellin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:41:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] the idea of building an electronic instrument
Message-ID: <20020313034115.43909.qmail@iname.com>

this is all new to me.
i've been here long enough to know there are some truly gifted people in this group.

i love the idea of building electronic gadgets to in some way or another throw into musical composition, performance and creation.  i've got two Blacet modules, preassembled (i knew i wanted to build them, but i wasn't ready).
slowly over time i have use for them.

it's all i got but here's what i do.
the blacet mixer/processor spends it's performance life gating the DSC module.
the DSC goes to a POS korg ms 2000r.
all of my drums and other crappy keyboards and the strangely interesting virtual korg getting gutted by a DSC module meet up in my new pro tools system that sits around waiting for me to aspire to the level that i was dreaming on last time i had a dream.

i would like to try and build something.
much gratitude and respect to any comments hints tips or suggestions.
                   jeremiah


-- 

_______________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

Travelocity.com is giving away two million travel miles.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;3969773;6991039;g?http://svc.travelocity.com/promos/millionmiles_main/0,,TRAVELOCITY,00.html



From toothpick_77 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 13 04:48:18 2002
From: toothpick_77 at hotmail.com (Jimmy Gogas)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:48:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Replacement Parts
Message-ID: <F165mnBKSpQRVH8gddl00014173@hotmail.com>

Hey guys,

I need to find replacements for these parts:

BC560C (low noise BJT)
BC550C (low noise BJT)
RL44G (Diode)
3080 (OTA)

Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Wed Mar 13 05:44:13 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (Oren B. Leavitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:44:13 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Replacement Parts
References: <F165mnBKSpQRVH8gddl00014173@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ED91D.C69CEA20@ix.netcom.com>

Here are some NTE equivs for the two transistors if you can't find the
originals.

BC560C = NTE234 (PNP)
BC550C = NTE199 (NPN compliment to NTE234)

Mouser Electronics http://www.mouser.com stocks both the NTE devices,
and also the CA3080
They also have both of the BC devices listed, but not in stock.

I have no clue about the RL44G diode - anybody else know?

Best Regards,
Oren

Jimmy Gogas wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I need to find replacements for these parts:
>
> BC560C (low noise BJT)
> BC550C (low noise BJT)
> RL44G (Diode)
> 3080 (OTA)
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com

--
Oren Leavitt
oleavitt at ix.netcom.com




From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Wed Mar 13 09:37:43 2002
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:37:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] AN6912 IC in TR-808?
Message-ID: <OF98D1A6FF.21B55908-ONC1256B7B.002F1910@idg.se>

Hi everybody. Do you have any information on the quad op-amp AN-6912 that
is used in the Roland TR-808?
Is it just an ordinary quad op-amp or ist it something special?
The pin-out is different for sure, but that doesn't matter to me, as I'm
designing ny own PCB for it.
It runs on single supply, in contrast to the other op-amps in the machine.

/Jorgen



From music.maker at gte.net  Wed Mar 13 09:00:29 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:00:29
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
Message-ID: <20020313170044.MDHH8955.out016.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Hmm yeah me too, isn't that why they put the protection
diodes in CMOS designs?  If the protection diode is capable 
of conducting the "lighting strike", then the gate insulator
never gets punctured.  So the assumption is that the diodes
*are* capable of conducting nondestructively in at least 
some of the cases.  Otherwise there would be no point to
adding the diodes since they would be destroyed and probably
kill the device's input anyway.

=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>At 07:24 13.03.02 -0800, you wrote:
>>    However, with opamps and the like, the failure is generally fairly
>>subtle.  For Fet opamps, a lot of time it increases the leakage current
>>in the inputs.  A TL072, while it does have fairly low bias currents, it
>>is really not all that low.  So, you may or may not notice the damage
>>right away.
>
>A TL072 has JFET inputs, how do you blow away its gate "insulation",
>shouldn't 
>it zehner long before?! I was always under the impression that bipolar 
>transistors and JFETs were pretty immune to static discharge. 
>
>Cheers,
> Ren?
>
>
>-- 
>uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
>http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
>
> 
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Wed Mar 13 10:08:15 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:08:15 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Pinout for japanese transistors
Message-ID: <4b.19c48645.29c070ff@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/12/02 3:18:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk writes:


> You'll need to take a minute to register but it's well worth it. If you 
> encounter difficulty I could get the .pdf's myself and email them to you, 
> but I doubt you'll have any trouble finding them. 
> 

Does anybody here know of a paid subscription login for that site? I have a 
standard one, but that won't allow me to access any device that's been 
discontinued.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020313/1a2d253b/attachment.htm>

From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 10:18:04 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:18:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Replacement Parts
In-Reply-To: <F165mnBKSpQRVH8gddl00014173@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020313091804.21928.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I found a distortion circuit that uses RL44Gs
back-to-back across an opamp. I'm guessing old
germanium diodes?

http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/littleman/littleman.pdf

--TR

--- Jimmy Gogas <toothpick_77 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> I need to find replacements for these parts:
> 
> BC560C (low noise BJT)
> BC550C (low noise BJT)
> RL44G (Diode)
> 3080 (OTA)
> 
> Can anyone help?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN
> Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From pgrenader at mksound.com  Wed Mar 13 10:33:52 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:33:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 2 old Serge panels on ebay
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203131239360.6852-100000@softpixel.com>
Message-ID: <B8B46B10.2D33%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Ah, shucks....

Did anyone happen to see what these things ended up going for?  I missed the
end of that auction.  I was interested in the control modules, although I
was fearing the reserve was out of sight.  Couldn't justify it based on
those instruments still being available today, new.  These were 30 years
old.

Anyone see what they closed at?




From Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com  Wed Mar 13 11:30:05 2002
From: Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com (Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:30:05 +0100
Subject: Antwort: [sdiy] AN6912 IC in TR-808?
Message-ID: <0057440008467099000002L492*@MHS>

Hello!

the an6912 is a quad comparator (those with open collector output)
It can be replaced with an lm339 (its even pin compatible when i remenber right)

while i was building the handclap section of the 808 some time ago i noticed an 
error in the
schematics from roland. 
C140 is noticed as 2n7
handclap started working when i changed it to 27n...

The SnareDrum section had some "Portion Changed" notices
with this changed values the snare drum sounds not the same way it does in some 
mp3 samples
(taken from an original 808) i found on the net
anybody out there who did research on this yet ?

bye
Christian


From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Wed Mar 13 11:33:00 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:33:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A682C@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

When something goes wrong in analog, you hear something.
When the same happens in DSP, you need to spend hours
with emulator to see where it hungs up.

just my opinion

Roman, who has semi-broken Poly6 that makes incredible killer sounds


""-----Original Message-----
""From: Moho Disco [mailto:moho at mohodisco.com]
""Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:32 PM
""To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
""Subject: [sdiy] Question:
""
""
""What would you say is a harder task to build
""from the ground up, assuming all skills needed
""are posessed, and money is not an issue:
""
""A digital synth like a Virus
""
""or
""
""An analog synth like a Pro-one
""
""Thanks,
""
""Lava
""
""
""---------------------------------------------------------
""This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
""
""Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
""oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
""


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From pgrenader at mksound.com  Wed Mar 13 12:15:25 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:15:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020313140919.0190b2a0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <B8B482DD.2D43%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Short answer: yes

Long answer:  The nickel plated static protective bags aren't cheap but are
the ONLY way to go to truly create a metal cage and shield from external
ESD.

The pink poly stuff used in IC tubes and bags is not as costly, but isn't a
cure...it only lessens the possibilities of static discharge damaging its
contents.  It's impregnated not with nickel, but with soap (I am serious).

A good solution would be to just put the legs of the part in black
conductive foam. Cheaper than nickel bags and allows the rest of the
contents to be packaged with recyclable materials.  As long at the charge to
all legs of the device are normalized, the risk of static discharge blowing
somethng inside are much less.






> I understand the dangers of ESD for individual components and unprotected
> circuit boards. However, one thing has always puzzled me. Most of the new
> electronic keyboards that I have seen, come wrapped in
> -very-high-static-cling-
> plastic bags! Aren't the internal components of the product in danger of ESD
> from the very-high-static retail packaging?
> 
> Shouldn't commercial electronic products be shipped in anti-static bags, just
> like bare electronic components are?
> 
> Later,
> Glen




From colin at colinfraser.com  Wed Mar 13 13:00:26 2002
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:00:26 -0000
Subject: Antwort: [sdiy] AN6912 IC in TR-808?
References: <0057440008467099000002L492*@MHS>
Message-ID: <001c01c1ca86$a98aaa30$0b30030a@scottishpower.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: <Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com>
To: <jorgen.bergfors at idg.se>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:30 AM
Subject: Antwort: [sdiy] AN6912 IC in TR-808?


> while i was building the handclap section of the 808 some time ago i
noticed an
> error in the
> schematics from roland.
> C140 is noticed as 2n7
> handclap started working when i changed it to 27n...

Did your clap not work at all ?
I used the wrong value initially, and instead of getting the 3 rapid falling
ramps inthe envelope, I just got one - the sound was less crunchy, but
without a real 808 clap to compare it to, you might not notice.
I built the 909 clap just after the 808, and the circuits are almost the
same.
I noticed the difference between the cap values between the two, and fixed
the error.

Colin f






From andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu  Wed Mar 13 14:42:31 2002
From: andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu (David Anderson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:42:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] TOG news
In-Reply-To: <20020312225314.44961.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2396670128.1016008951@DAVIDA>

"D minor, the saddest of all keys" - Nigel Tufnell

--On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, 2:53 PM -0800 Tim Ressel
<madhun2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ken,
> 
> Okay, so I can't count! I'm still a damn fine
> engineer!
> 
> (sigh)
> 
> Yes, there are 12, not 11. Thanks for pointing it out.
> It would have been even more embarrassing to get the
> programming done and the boards made with this little
> error. 
> 
> But then, who uses D# anyway?
> 
> --TR
> 
> --- Ken Stone <sasami at hotkey.net.au> wrote:
>> > So 10 macrocells per output * 11 outputs = 110
>> > macrocells. An XC95108 has 108 macrocells.
>> 
>> Excuse me if I'm being dense, but you would need 12
>> outputs, not 11,
>> bringing you up to 120 cells needed.
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
>> Modular Synth PCBs for sale
>> <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
>> Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies
>> <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 
> 



David Anderson
Sr Programmer/Analyst

University @ Buffalo
User Services
Academic Services, CIT
217 Computing Center
Buffalo, NY 14260
716.645.2256



From krhen at stucki.com  Wed Mar 13 14:49:04 2002
From: krhen at stucki.com (Rhen, Kris)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:49:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
Message-ID: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A98E@stu-nt1.stucki.com>

Have a question.  What is the result of static damage to an IC?  I don't
think I have any, just a purely informative question.  If I shuffle across a
carpet and 'zap', say, a TL072 or LM13700 or the like, what happens at that
electronic level?  What is the mechanism of damage?  How does the damage
manifest itself when the IC is used?  Curious...  Thanks all
KRIS
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020313/429b5923/attachment.htm>

From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Mar 13 15:27:48 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:27:48 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
Message-ID: <3c8f61e4.6dd.0@telusplanet.net>

Hello, Kris,

>Have a question.  What is the result of static damage to an IC?  I don't
>think I have any, just a purely informative question.  If I shuffle across
a
>carpet and 'zap', say, a TL072 or LM13700 or the like, what happens at that

>electronic level?  What is the mechanism of damage?  How does the damage
>manifest itself when the IC is used?  Curious...  Thanks all

The pulse of electricity caused by the zap of discharge has an extremely high
peak current due to the high voltage of the static charge. This high current
melts and fuses the electrical conductors in the chip, sometimes completely
destroying a section and sometimes just partially damaging it, allowing it to
continue to function but to fail at some random moment in the future. Since
the actual path of the current pulse cannot be predicted (just like like lightning,
a similar phenomenom), the resultant chip damage also cannot be predicted. So
the functional symptoms of the damage can range from nothing apparent at all
to complete chip failure, with anything in between possible.

I have actually opened up static damaged ICs and identified the melted area
on the chip itself. It is quite easy to see with a decent microscope.

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com



From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Wed Mar 13 15:54:57 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:54:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
In-Reply-To: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A98E@stu-nt1.stucki.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203130936200.31093-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Rhen, Kris wrote:

> Have a question.  What is the result of static damage to an IC?  I don't
> think I have any, just a purely informative question.  If I shuffle
> across a carpet and 'zap', say, a TL072 or LM13700 or the like, what
> happens at that electronic level?  What is the mechanism of damage?  
> How does the damage manifest itself when the IC is used?  Curious...  

  'Classic' static damage generally happens to unprotected parts that
incorporate MOS transistors.  What happens is the static spark blows out
the insulated gate region of the transistor, leaving a 'pit' in the
semiconductor material.  I think they used to call this pitting action
"punchthrough."  It is very like a capacitor that is operating above its
rated working voltage: charge on the device blasts through the insulating
dielectric, ruining the cap. The inputs of a xMOS (CMOS/PMOS/NMOS/etc)
part are all essentially MOS transistor gates.

  Modern parts have 'parasitic' diodes fabricated as part of the chip that 
bleed off voltage transients before they encounter the gate region of such 
transistors.  While this is generally effective, it is not foolproof, 
which is why ESD-sensitive device handling precautions still exist.

  One side-effect of these precautions is thqt people tend to get in the 
habit of using ESD precautions on all parts, not just MOS stuff.  Which is 
a good thing.

Crow
/**/



From mveneziale at LandAm.com  Wed Mar 13 16:02:00 2002
From: mveneziale at LandAm.com (mveneziale at LandAm.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:02:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] wiring question
Message-ID: <1E83B7D6B8CC0A48AAD931A7916E2F7101616DF8@lande11>

paul,

now that i've got my head on straight, i'm going to make a CV pedal the way you've recommended.  i just had a question of how to wire the guitar cable to a battery clip's red and black wires.

obviously i'll remove the 1/4" connector plug at the top.  then what?  one wire is a ground, just not sure which one.

thanks!  if anyone else has input, fire away if you please.

-m


From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Mar 13 16:24:16 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:24:16 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A98E@stu-nt1.stucki.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F6F20.B0F20E0A@silcom.com>

    The problem with static damage is that a lot of times, nothing
happens at all, at least at the moment.  Static damage can manifest
itself much later (years sometimes) by a sudden unexplained failure.

    However, with opamps and the like, the failure is generally fairly
subtle.  For Fet opamps, a lot of time it increases the leakage current
in the inputs.  A TL072, while it does have fairly low bias currents, it
is really not all that low.  So, you may or may not notice the damage
right away.

    Another factor in Static damage is the size of the features.  At
work, I had to knock a few heads when the new gate arrays we started to
use were having a 50% failure rate.  Turns out they are very sensitive
to static.  I found this out myself when I forgot to plug myself in and
touched the board (while it was running), and it instantly stopped.
Blew the FPGA right now.

"Rhen, Kris" wrote:

>    Have a question.  What is the result of static damage to an IC?  I
> don't
> think I have any, just a purely informative question.  If I shuffle
> across a
> carpet and 'zap', say, a TL072 or LM13700 or the like, what happens at
> that
> electronic level?  What is the mechanism of damage?  How does the
> damage
> manifest itself when the IC is used?  Curious...  Thanks all
> KRIS
>
>

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From jlarryh at iquest.net  Wed Mar 13 16:38:07 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:38:07 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A98E@stu-nt1.stucki.com>
Message-ID: <002401c1caa5$135c1160$61532bd1@oemcomputer>

Static Damage to ICsKris,  There is a nice photo showing a MODFET ESD
blowout magnified 1200 times and some explanation in Horowitz and Hill.  I
scanned the page and you can view it at:
http://www.wiseguysynth.com/larry/misc/esd.jpg
Larry Hendry


----- Original Message -----
From: Rhen, Kris
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:49 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs


Have a question.  What is the result of static damage to an IC?  I don't
think I have any, just a purely informative question.  If I shuffle across a
carpet and 'zap', say, a TL072 or LM13700 or the like, what happens at that
electronic level?  What is the mechanism of damage?  How does the damage
manifest itself when the IC is used?  Curious...  Thanks all
KRIS



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Wed Mar 13 17:41:48 2002
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:41:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
In-Reply-To: <3C8F6F20.B0F20E0A@silcom.com>
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A98E@stu-nt1.stucki.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020313174148.00d4d100@mailin.uni-bonn.de>

At 07:24 13.03.02 -0800, you wrote:
>    However, with opamps and the like, the failure is generally fairly
>subtle.  For Fet opamps, a lot of time it increases the leakage current
>in the inputs.  A TL072, while it does have fairly low bias currents, it
>is really not all that low.  So, you may or may not notice the damage
>right away.

A TL072 has JFET inputs, how do you blow away its gate "insulation",
shouldn't 
it zehner long before?! I was always under the impression that bipolar 
transistors and JFETs were pretty immune to static discharge. 

Cheers,
 Ren?


-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From smokris at softpixel.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:33 2002
From: smokris at softpixel.com (Steve Mokris)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] sid-midi-synth (was :Question:")
In-Reply-To: <3C8EC35D.8080402@cox.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203131239360.6852-100000@softpixel.com>

> But I think it was somebody here on this list who's made a MIDI synth
> out of a SID chip (Commodor computer sound chip) and I know there are
> other digital SDIYers.  Their hammers look a lot different.

i'm very interested in building a midi synth from a commodore-sid.  do you
know of any resources for getting started with a project of this sort?

thanks,
steve



From andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu  Wed Mar 13 19:31:02 2002
From: andersdl at acsu.buffalo.edu (David Anderson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:31:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] sid-midi-synth (was :Question:")
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203131239360.6852-100000@softpixel.com>
Message-ID: <2413980940.1016026262@DAVIDA>

Um, how about the Elektor SIDStation? It was commercially available for a
while and turns up on eBay I think.

--On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, 12:42 PM -0500 Steve Mokris
<smokris at softpixel.com> wrote:

>> But I think it was somebody here on this list who's made a MIDI synth
>> out of a SID chip (Commodor computer sound chip) and I know there are
>> other digital SDIYers.  Their hammers look a lot different.
> 
> i'm very interested in building a midi synth from a commodore-sid.  do you
> know of any resources for getting started with a project of this sort?
> 
> thanks,
> steve
> 
> 



David Anderson
Sr Programmer/Analyst

University @ Buffalo
User Services
Academic Services, CIT
217 Computing Center
Buffalo, NY 14260
716.645.2256



From edu at audiolist.cjb.net  Wed Mar 13 19:50:31 2002
From: edu at audiolist.cjb.net (Edu Silva)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:50:31 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
References: <3c8f61e4.6dd.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F9F77.CE5854B9@audiolist.cjb.net>

epeasant at telusplanet.net wrote:
> 
> I have actually opened up static damaged ICs and identified the
> melted area on the chip itself.


And how did you do it? Very easy to open an hybrid module, but I've
never managed to see inside an epoxi-encapsulated IC.

Edu Silva
http://audiolist.cjb.net


From thescum at surfree.com  Wed Mar 13 20:05:30 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (thescum at surfree.com)
Date: 13 Mar 2002 11:05:30 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
Message-ID: <20020313190530.20084.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net>

On Wed, 13 March 2002, Sowa Roman wrote:
> When something goes wrong in analog, you hear something.
> When the same happens in DSP, you need to spend hours
> with emulator to see where it hungs up.

You may hear something in analog, but you might also still spend a lot of time with your diagnistic tools to find out what's wrong.  Especially if it's a new design that's never made any noise before.

In the end, I think that a lot of debugging (in either hardware or software) comes back to your overall understanding of the design.  You'll understand it's weaknesses better, and have better ideas of where to look when something goes wrong.  Folks like Knuth on the software side and Pease on the hardware side try to make this apparent.  All too often, we just copy some other design without really understanding how it works.

Better debugging tools can help a lot too.  An environment that lets you contidionally execute your source code on the actual hardware (like a JTAG or ICE environment), and a processor that supports breaking & tracing are easier to debug than "closed box" hardware and a standalone simulator.  The same might be said for a high bandwidth multi-channel sampling oscilloscope versus a simple DVM.

Byron Jacquot




From buchi at takeonetech.de  Wed Mar 13 20:06:08 2002
From: buchi at takeonetech.de (Michael Buchstaller)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:06:08 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Replacement Parts
In-Reply-To: <F165mnBKSpQRVH8gddl00014173@hotmail.com>
References: <F165mnBKSpQRVH8gddl00014173@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bk8v8usuraecll5nvlglvngnqglp90spfj@4ax.com>

>BC560C, BC550C, 3080

Hmm... these are very common parts. Nothing special,
one should be able to abtain all of them in any decent
electronics store.

>RL44G (Diode)

Have never heard of that type, but i think that this is a germanium
small signal type - any OA... type should do it...


-Michael Buchstaller


From mclilith at ezwv.com  Wed Mar 13 20:17:12 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:17:12 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
In-Reply-To: <20020313170044.MDHH8955.out016.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020313140919.0190b2a0@mail.ezwv.com>

I understand the dangers of ESD for individual components and unprotected
circuit boards. However, one thing has always puzzled me. Most of the new
electronic keyboards that I have seen, come wrapped in -very-high-static-cling-
plastic bags! Aren't the internal components of the product in danger of ESD
from the very-high-static retail packaging?

Shouldn't commercial electronic products be shipped in anti-static bags, just
like bare electronic components are?

Later,
Glen


From mclilith at ezwv.com  Wed Mar 13 20:29:10 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:29:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] sid-midi-synth (was :Question:")
In-Reply-To: <2413980940.1016026262@DAVIDA>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203131239360.6852-100000@softpixel.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020313141835.01a01cd0@mail.ezwv.com>

At 01:31 PM 3/13/02 , David Anderson wrote:
>Um, how about the Elektor SIDStation? It was commercially available for a
>while and turns up on eBay I think.
>
>--On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, 12:42 PM -0500 Steve Mokris
><smokris at softpixel.com> wrote:
>> 
>> i'm very interested in building a midi synth from a commodore-sid.  do you
>> know of any resources for getting started with a project of this sort?


In addition to the SIDStation, there is also the HardSID product. (A totally
different product line, from a totally different company.)

  http://www.hardsid.com/Frames.html

This is a SID synth on a PC card. There is even the "Quattro" model that
accepts up to four SID chips on the same card, and provides a total of 12 SID
voices.

I've never used one, but I have a few old Commodores sitting around, and the
MP3 demos on this site sound interesting...   Maybe I should cannibalize my old
C-64's, and order a Quattro card someday?

Has anyone used this card? Any comments on it?


Later,
Glen


From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Mar 13 20:54:07 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:54:07 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A98E@stu-nt1.stucki.com> <3.0.5.32.20020313174148.00d4d100@mailin.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3C8FAE5F.BA7EAAE7@silcom.com>

    I am not sure how the inputs on a JFET opamp get damaged, but I was using
some JFET opamps that had bias currents down in the fempto-amp range that
were being used in a sample hold circuit.  When the boards got zapped, the
droop on the sample hold would increase dramatically.  This was how I could
tell when they were damaged.  Replacing the amplifier would always fix the
problem.

Ren? Schmitz wrote:

> At 07:24 13.03.02 -0800, you wrote:
> >    However, with opamps and the like, the failure is generally fairly
> >subtle.  For Fet opamps, a lot of time it increases the leakage current
> >in the inputs.  A TL072, while it does have fairly low bias currents, it
> >is really not all that low.  So, you may or may not notice the damage
> >right away.
>
> A TL072 has JFET inputs, how do you blow away its gate "insulation",
> shouldn't
> it zehner long before?! I was always under the impression that bipolar
> transistors and JFETs were pretty immune to static discharge.

    This is a very common misconception.  3M came to our plant to demo their
anti static equipment.  For their demo, they would put a JFET into an
instrument to measure the gate leakage current.  I can't remember the FET,
but the bias current was something like 1 pico amp.  They would take the part
and put it into a "pink" anti static bag (this was the product they were
competing against).  The would then take a roll of scotch tape, and pull off
a strip of it about 1 foot away from the pink bag.  They would then take the
FET back out of the bag and put it into the test instrument, and the Gate
leakage would be about 1 nano amp.  The same experiment using the 3M metal
coated bag would result in no increase in the gate leakage.  Mind you, nobody
ever touched the fets physically to ZAP them.

    Even things like good old LS TTL, which is pretty darn rugged, was rated
at only 100V (by NASA, for whatever that is worth).

>
>
> Cheers,
>  Ren?
>
> --
> uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
> http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
>
>

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Mar 13 21:00:05 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:00:05 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
References: <4.1.20020313140919.0190b2a0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FAFC5.8BADC2B0@silcom.com>

    Most electronics these days have to meet CE standards (if you want to sell them
in Europe, anyway).  One of the things in that spec as to do with ESD
resistance...and I will tell you, it is a very tough spec to meet.  The instrument
has to take quite a hit, and still function (while ON and operating).  So, once
packaged, one would hope that ESD concerns would not be there.

Glen wrote:

> I understand the dangers of ESD for individual components and unprotected
> circuit boards. However, one thing has always puzzled me. Most of the new
> electronic keyboards that I have seen, come wrapped in -very-high-static-cling-
> plastic bags! Aren't the internal components of the product in danger of ESD
> from the very-high-static retail packaging?
>
> Shouldn't commercial electronic products be shipped in anti-static bags, just
> like bare electronic components are?
>
> Later,
> Glen

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From jamos at technotoys.com  Wed Mar 13 21:08:13 2002
From: jamos at technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:13 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 2 old Serge panels on ebay
In-Reply-To: <B8B46B10.2D33%pgrenader@mksound.com>
References: <B8B46B10.2D33%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <200203131208130170.00180A8E@161.58.178.202>

They're back up, with the homemade case the guy was trying to unload:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=851493294

Jim Johnson 
Metaphoric Software
-------------------
Makers of Techno Toys
Software for Electronic Music
http://www.technotoys.com
info at technotoys.com




*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/13/02 at 2:33 AM Peter Grenader wrote:

>Ah, shucks....
>
>Did anyone happen to see what these things ended up going for?  I missed
>the
>end of that auction.  I was interested in the control modules, although I
>was fearing the reserve was out of sight.  Couldn't justify it based on
>those instruments still being available today, new.  These were 30 years
>old.
>
>Anyone see what they closed at?





From cfmd at swipnet.se  Wed Mar 13 21:38:29 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:38:29 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Replacement Parts
In-Reply-To: <bk8v8usuraecll5nvlglvngnqglp90spfj@4ax.com>
References: <F165mnBKSpQRVH8gddl00014173@hotmail.com>
	<bk8v8usuraecll5nvlglvngnqglp90spfj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20020313.213829.71083003.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Michael Buchstaller <buchi at takeonetech.de>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Replacement Parts
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:06:08 +0100

> >BC560C, BC550C, 3080
> 
> Hmm... these are very common parts. Nothing special,
> one should be able to abtain all of them in any decent
> electronics store.

Depends... the BC560C and BC550C is European and if you are in say USA
or Japan, you migth be out of luck. But here they are the 2N3904s and
2N3905s more or less...

Cheers,
Magnus


From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Mar 13 21:43:11 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:43:11 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
Message-ID: <3c8fb9df.b0e.0@telusplanet.net>

>epeasant at telusplanet.net wrote:
>> 
>> I have actually opened up static damaged ICs and identified the
>> melted area on the chip itself.
>
>
>And how did you do it? Very easy to open an hybrid module, but I've
>never managed to see inside an epoxi-encapsulated IC.
>
This was a ceramic packaged quad gate of some sort, with one gate connected
to the input of a sensor. I took the ic, stood it on end and whacked it with
a hammer and chisel. This split off the ceramic top (lid?) piece (originally
glued in place) and allowed me clear access to the internal chip. The quadrant
of the chip corresponding to the gate normally connected to the input sensor
was obviously damaged, even with the naked eye. I may actually still have this
chip around, if I do I will try to photograph it and post it for all to see.


But I have not always been so lucky opening ceramic dip packages, usually the
chip gets torn apart in the process.

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Mar 13 21:52:20 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:52:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Question:
References: <20020313190530.20084.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FBC03.F4212EAB@prodigy.net>



thescum at surfree.com wrote:  <snip>

>  The same might be said for a high bandwidth multi-channel sampling oscilloscope versus a simple DVM.

Or even a old, wounded veteran scope from the 60's vs a simple DVM....   ;^P

(get a life, get a scope ;^)

H^) harry



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Mar 13 21:57:45 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:57:45 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
References: <4.1.20020313140919.0190b2a0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBD49.316B1588@prodigy.net>

Most of the static damage comes from components that are not installed
in circuit boards (or complete systems)...

The circuit enviroment provides comprehensive protection for the chips if
it was designed properly. This might include MOVs, limiting resistors and
capacitors..
etc.

What I'd like to know is why some distributors (in my example... Newark) used an
antistatic bag... inside a conductive box... inside another conductive box....

... to ship me eight toggle switches !   Maybe that's why my shipping and handling
fee was unusually high for the order ???

There is such a thing... as taking a good thing too far...  ;^P

H^) harry

Glen wrote:

> I understand the dangers of ESD for individual components and unprotected
> circuit boards. However, one thing has always puzzled me. Most of the new
> electronic keyboards that I have seen, come wrapped in -very-high-static-cling-
> plastic bags! Aren't the internal components of the product in danger of ESD
> from the very-high-static retail packaging?
>
> Shouldn't commercial electronic products be shipped in anti-static bags, just
> like bare electronic components are?
>
> Later,
> Glen

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Mar 13 22:02:55 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:02:55 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
Message-ID: <3c8fbe7f.3475.0@telusplanet.net>

  3M came to our plant to demo their
>anti static equipment.  For their demo, they would put a JFET into an
>instrument to measure the gate leakage current.  I can't remember the FET,

>but the bias current was something like 1 pico amp.  They would take the part

>and put it into a "pink" anti static bag (this was the product they were
>competing against).  The would then take a roll of scotch tape, and pull off

>a strip of it about 1 foot away from the pink bag.  They would then take the

>FET back out of the bag and put it into the test instrument, and the Gate
>leakage would be about 1 nano amp.  The same experiment using the 3M metal

>coated bag would result in no increase in the gate leakage.  Mind you, nobody

>ever touched the fets physically to ZAP them.

We have a 3M static meter at work here, measures to 20KV. It relies on an internal
radioactive source to function, fun stuff. To check it's calibration you do
the following:

"measure the voltage on a piece of Scotch Brand #810 magic mending tape. Pull
8" to 10" of tape from the roll and hold in the air so the strip of tape hangs
down from the hand. The reading should be at least 5000 volts positive at a
distance of two inches"

So ordinary scotch tape can easily generate over 5KV. And you thought tube circuits
were dangerous!!!!

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Wed Mar 13 22:18:07 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:18:07 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] sid-midi-synth (was :Question:")
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203131239360.6852-100000@softpixel.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FC20F.5540ECA4@eunet.yu>

 
> i'm very interested in building a midi synth from a commodore-sid.  do you
> know of any resources for getting started with a project of this sort?

try here:

http://www.buchi.de/MonoVoice/



-- 



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From CCartCat at aol.com  Wed Mar 13 22:28:27 2002
From: CCartCat at aol.com (CCartCat at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:28:27 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Hammers/ SID under MIDI
Message-ID: <14b.a5c04c2.29c11e7b@aol.com>

Think it was Mark Twain who said that--a very funny and useful line.

As for SID and MIDI, aside from the no-doubt quieter and more flexible 
solutions already mentioned, there is a shareware program for the C64.  If 
you have a MIDI interface for the C64, and the C64 itself, you can control 
the SID inside via MIDI.

For anyone curious, the documentation with contact info (maybe still current, 
can't say) is copied below.

Kevin Seward

<<Who was it that said, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, 
everything looks like a nail"?  My hammer looks a lot like analog 
tools/experience and my nails look like caps, OP-AMPs, etc.

But I think it was somebody here on this list who's made a MIDI synth 
out of a SID chip (Commodor computer sound chip) and I know there are 
other digital SDIYers.  Their hammers look a lot different.

_Buck (needing more hammers)
>>

++++++++++++CONTACT INFO+++++++++
King Fisher / TRIAD
Linus Walleij
Magistratsv?gen 55 N:306
226 44 LUND
SWEDEN
Fone: +46(0)41868513
E-mail: triad at df.lth.se, linus.walleij at microbus.se
Homepage: http://www.df.lth.se/~triad/
Usenet: comp.sys.cbm or alt.fan.hofstadter

+++++++++++++Documentation++++++++++++++++++++++
TRIAD MIDISLAVE MANAGER V1.1


This helpfile contains:

1. What is the Triad Midislave Manager?
2. Getting started
3. The main menu
4. The MIDI-mode screen
  a. Channel
  b. Transpose
  c. Programme
  d. Concate
5. The sound editor
  a. Sound Number
  b. Name
  c. Definition
  d. Pulsewidth
  e. CTRL-byte
  f. Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release
  g. Macro speed
  h. Fixed note
  i. Pitching
  j. Vibrato
  k. Pulse vibrato
  l. Filters
  m. Macro definition
6. Loading and saving sounds
7. Upgrade, and the future of this program
8. Known bugs
9. Technical notes
10. Thanks to...
11. Address


1. What is the triad midislave manager?

So, you've just recieved this program right? OK. If you've got a DATEL /
Siel+JMS / Passport or Sequential MIDI-interface (or compatible) and a 
keyboard
or sequencer, you're a real lucky person.
  The whole idea of the midislave started way back in 1992, some late night in
Ljungby, while I visited my good friend Hans Axelsson (that is: TDM of TRIAD)
and we discussed the matter of 64-sounds. We talked about rerecording some of
TDM's old 64-songs with our MIDI-equipment, but as we had tried it before, we
knew the tunes never sounded the same after being transfered from the original
note-script to the MIDI-sequencer. Ofcourse there was nothing wrong with our
sequencer, it was the sounds that lacked.
  So I said: "Look, I'll construct a program that reads the MIDI-bus and
replays the notes with the SID-chip. That should not be too hard."
  Now I've done it, and the "Triad Midislave Manager" is the result. And now I
release it for the market. You can finger your keyboard, and there will be
sounds flowing out of your C64. Isn't that just wounderful? All of you who 
have
ever dreamed about using the C64 sounds in MIDI-arrangements, playing live on
your 64 or just play around with it - this is the program you need. Share and
enjoy!
  Since I believe "Intellectual Property" (ie Copyright) to be equal to theft
from our common legacy of information, this program is released as freeware.
Releasing it as freeware also gives me the opportunity to use rude language in
the program and this documentation without having to worry about sensitive
customers, and also free me from any duties in maintaining the code and making
the users happy. Yes, it is supplied on what we call an "as-is" basis. If you
want me to implement new features and remove bugs, all you have to do is to 
ask
me nicely, and perhaps I will do it. I make no promises whatsoever, because I
don't WANT you to believe there is some market-sensitive organization behind
this program, it's just me.
  I will not supply you with any standard disclaimers or legal bullshit, so 
sue
me if you think this program has made damage to your equipment or software. 
Any
court would believe you to be brain-damaged if you think you can nail a
freeware producer for supplying bad software. I assure you this program is not
a Trojan Horse.


2. Getting started

Switch off your computer, insert your MIDI-interface, switch it on again. Then
load and run the midislave software. As soon as the midislave main menu is on
the screen, your 64 is reading the MIDI-bus for incoming commands. When the
menu is lit, turn on your keyboard. If you can't connect the MIDI-interface
with the keyboard, the problem is likely one of the following:
  a. Your keyboard doesn't have a MIDI-port. You should have thought about 
this
before you bought you keyboard. Sorry to say this, but your keyboard is pure
crap.
  b. You have not understood the VERY simple concept of MIDI-interconnections,
which means, you should connect a cable from MIDI OUT on your keyboard, to 
MIDI
IN on your MIDI-interface. If you can't see what's IN OUT and THRU on your
interface, LOOK ON THE BACK OF IT!
  c. There is something wrong with your equipment. Highly unlikely. It's
probably your fault instead.
  Once you've got this far, things will hopefully solve themselves. Set the
presets, go into MIDI mode, finger your keyboard and... Voila!


3. The main menu

This is your command control centre. You can choose to enter MIDI-mode, the
sound editor or to load or save your sounds. Quite self explaining with the
exception for "Presets" described below. Oh, and by the way: you can't use 
your
joystick to choose from this menu. And you never will. This is a tool, not a
fucking game.
  The preset section: This is where you select your MIDI-interface type. Press
+/- to change interface type (3 in all) and RETURN when finished. The
configuration is written to disk and the program is restarted with the new
interface configuration. I only know about these three Interface types thanks
to Frank Prindle who wrote a schematic for an interface, which is published on
Internet and available if you look around for it. I haven't tested the program
with any other interface than DATEL / Siel+JMS, so I can't assure you it will
work with the other types.If you have some other interface, please tell me!
  In case you absolutely need it, you can hack the configuration yourself 
using
a machine-code monitor. Load the file called "-PROGRAM SETUP-" to $1000 and
edit the adresses used for Control, Transmit, Status, Receive, Reset and
Enable. The first four values are adresses to the 6850 chip and the 2 last
values are the byte-values being poked to the command register at startup.
Doing this requires knowledge of the 6850 chip configuration used by your
interface, something you could perhaps find out by hacking the software
distributed along with the interface. If you have an interface which doesn't
use the 6850 chip then WOW!, I've never seen such a thing... Almost all MIDI-
equipment use the 6850. The Triad Midislave can't handle any other hardware.
Sorry.


4. The MIDI-mode screen

This is where the tricky things start. You can see a screen saying "Triad
Midislave Manager" and some lines of text. Is this all there is? Yes. This is 
a
sound program, not a graphics program.
  Keys you can use in this mode are:

  +/- To increase/decrease option
  Arrows up/down To choose option
  Run/Stop to return to the Main menu
  CTRL To shortcut to the sound editor

The meanings of the different options are:
  a. Channel. This is the number of the MIDI-channel the midislave is 
currently
reading. Valid figures are 01 thru 10 (hexadecimal) which gives you access to
all 16 MIDI-channels. If you don't know hex numbers: LEARN!
  b. Transpose. Here you can transpose all played notes by a desired number of
halfnotes. Again in hex. You can also antitranspose using the same method. For
example +0C = up one octave, -0C = down one octave.
  c. Programme. This is the number of the current sound. Valid figures are 01
thru 80, which makes a total of 128 different sounds, as on any good sound
module. I've given you the possibility to see the decimal number of the sound
here. Mainly because many keyboards and sequencers don't use hex... (Even
though I think they should!)
  d. Concate. As you already know, the C64 has got only 3 voices, and you
simply can't do anything about that. This option tells the midislave how to
handle a situation where you press more than three keys at a time. If you have
CONCATE=YES, the notes you pressed first will be kicked out and replaced with
the newer ones. If you WANT the midislave to lock up the three first pressed,
not yet released keys, set CONCATE=NO. There is a simple way of avoiding all
this trouble: don't press more than three keys at a time. However, piano-
maniacs have a strange habit of doing so.
  These are all options and keys on this screen really. There is aswell some
text in the windows giving you information that you might be interested in
during play. If you don't understand this (very simple) information, then just
forget about it and pretend it isn't there.


5. The sound editor

Phew, this is the heavy one. (Had to put on som coffe here, recommend Zoegas
Sk?nerost.) Again you can press Run/Stop to reach the main menu, and CTRL to
shortcut to MIDI-mode. You can press Home to get home, and CLR to clear the
whole sound. (Careful!) I will state the rest of the options line by line:
  a. Sound number. Here you choose the sound you want to edit. Key in the 
sound
number (in hex ofcourse) or use +/-. Very simple, really.
  b. Name. State/Edit the name of the current sound. Valid keys are all 
letters
and numbers, space and Inst/Del.
  c. Definition. You can't alter this one. I had some idea of making a
monophonic mode where you could only play one note at a time, using macros on
all three channels with ring modulation and such funny stuff. But I've not 
done
that yet. Maybe in the future, V3.0 or so of midislave.
  d. Pulsewidth. If you're using pulse sounds (P-bit set in the CTRL-byte) you
state the pulsewidth of that wave here. A value of around $800 is recommended
for beginners. You can enter the digits directly or use +/-.
  e. CTRL-byte. This byte tells you the main characteristics of your sound. If
you are familiar with C64 sound editors you will easily understand this one. 
It
is in hex, and you can key in the digits one by one. Since the gate bit -MUST-
be set, you can only enter odd numbers here. Easiest way to experiment: use 
+/-
. Beginners should use values of $41, $21 or $11 to get some decent sounds. To
the right you've got a binary representation of the CTRL-byte, so you can
easily see which bits are set. Soundwizards tend to develop a "fingertip" 
sense
for these bits.
  f. Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release. Those four lines make up the velocity
(volume) curve of your sound. If you don't understand it, look it up in any
synthesizer book or the C64 programmers reference manual. Or just play around
with them until it sounds good. General rule: avoid big figures on "Attack" 
and
don't set "Decay" to 0.
  g. Macro speed. Use +/- to select the macro speed. That is: how often the
crap at the bottom of the screen should step up by one, unless the end is
reached. A frame is a fiftieth of a second, which equals, for exaple: "4 Per
frame" means the macro is updated every 1/200th of a second. The normal is
"Every frame".
  h. Fixed note. If you're making, for example, lasers or drum-sounds, this 
one
will be useful. If you've chosen a certain note here, the keyboard will always
trigger THAT note, unregarding which key was pressed. Use +/- to select note,
or DEL to disconnect this option.
  i. Pitching. This defines the influence the pitch wheel will have on the
notes you're playing. You can pitch by halfnote, note, half octave or full
octave. (Not bad eh?) Thanks to Fredrik Sch?n (best swede at the computer
olympics in Stockholm) for sketching the interpolation algorithm for me in a
few minutes. Again press DEL to disconnect.
  j. Vibrato. DEL disconnects. Pressing "A" gives you a fixed amplitude, a
certain speed divisor (relative to the macro speed) and a "Delay-before-
vibrato" value to play around with. You can't use +/- here, sorry. But there 
is
more! Press "W" and you can control the vibrato with a definable wheel on you
keyboard! (Most keyboards use Wheel $02 "Modulation" for this.
  k. Pulse vibrato. Works exactly as the above, just that you can't set any
delay for the vibrato. And that the wheel actually don't control the amplitude
of the vibrato, it rather controls THE pulsewidth. (Pink Floyd used that kind
of effects a lot on their "Wish you were here" album).
  l. Filters. Here you choose the filter settings. Here it is a lot easier to
understand what happens than with most other sound editors. TYP sets the type
of filter you use. Use +/- to select. LP means Lowpass, HP = highpass, BP =
bandpass and NC = Notch filter. The lowpass cuts the higher overtones 
(treble),
the highpass cuts the bass, the bandpass cuts both treble and bass (like a 
Wah-
wah) and the notch cuts a certain interval. The frequency determining the 
-20dB
threshold can be set with the FRQ value. The frequency will be something like
5,8*FRQ(Decimal)+30 Hz. (You need a calculator for that.) The low and higpass
filters attenuates by 12 dB per octave while bandpass and notchfilters
attenuates by 6 dB per octave. The resonance nibble will peak the frequency
nearest the threshold to make the cutoff sound sharper. But it sounds like
distorsion really. (Useful as such too) If you don't understand a shit of 
this,
don't bother. Only us electronic phreaks really bother. Play around with it,
and you'll soon enogh have that "fingertip" sense for these values. Sorry for
not implementing wheel reading on the filter - YET.
  m. Macro definition. Unless you have a value of $FE in the first position
here, these steps will be gone through as described under "Macro speed" above.
You can change CTRL-byte, transposing and filtervalue (low byte) for each step
of the macro. You can use up to $46 different steps here, and either loop 
($FF)
or end ($FE) the macro after these. You have the option of reseting the Gate
bit (bit 0 of the CTRL-register) in order to create certain effects, but be
careful! It might make your sound sound "instable". A funny way of using the
transpose value is to make "Arpeggio", which is: playing chords with 
monophonic
instruments. The theory behind this is very simple (skip this if you don't
understand at least a little bit of musical theory): your keyboard consists of
12 different notes: C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# and B, in different octaves.
(Warning, most NORMAL musicians often use Eb instead of D#, Ab instead of G#
and Bb instead of A#.) These twelve notes can be combined into different
harmonies known as CHORDS. For example the Emajor-chord, consisting of the
tones E, G# and B (known as TONIC, TIERCE and QUINT in music theory), of which
E is usually played in the lowest pitch. To make this chord, assume that the
user will press the E-key on the keyboard, and call that note 0. The first
transpose value (step 01) should then also be $00. Then you want to play G#. 
G#
is 4 halftones higher than E, so the next transpose value (step 02), you set 
it
to $04. The last tone, B, is 7 halftones higher in pitch than E, why you set
the last transpose value (step 03) to $07. (Pay attention to that we are
referring to the lowest note (in this case E) all the way.) To create a
complete arpeggio you should the loop this macro by putting a value of $FF 
into
the last position (step 04). When E is triggered, all three notes will be
played ONE AT THE TIME, and then restared, and that will sound lika a chord or
some kind of. The funny thing about this is, that whatever key you press, the
midislave will produce a major chord with that key as tonic (the chord main
note). For most major and minor 3-tone chords the values of the transposemacro
will most often be 047 for major and 037 for minor chords, but as you see,
every chord can be calculated, even jazz if you like. Now, try to put G# as 
the
lowest pitch and move E up one octave. Assuming G# is pressed on the keyboard,
the transposemacro will be 038. Put B as the lowest and move both E and G# up
one octave, and assuming the user pressed B, the macro will be 059. Those 
three
variations of any 3-note chord, are known as VOICINGS. You can use them to
colorize your music. (Why don't they ever tell you these things in the
instructions for common 64-musicprograms?) Quick rundown: Major chord: 047, 
038
or 059 - Minor chord: 037, 049 or 058, 047 and 037 are easiest to handle, when
you use 038 or 049 arpeggio you must press the tierce of the chord to play the
proper chord, and with 059 or 058 chords you will have to press the quint of
the chord you want to produce. (Easy, yes?)


6. Loading and saving sounds

To load or save the soundfile, press these alternatives on the main menu. If
there is already a soundfile on the disk, it will be scratched and replaced
with the new one. Please note that commands (ie. program changes) sent during
load or save will not be recognized. This occurs due to the reading of the
MIDI-bus being switched off during load and save. (Disk routines in the ROM
uses timing, and don't want to get interfered with.) This doesn't mean I 
forbid
you to play while loading or saving, just that funny things could happen if 
you
do so. Things might hook up, due to the asynchronus realtime nature of the
MIDI-protocol.


7. Upgrade, and the future of this program

If somebody else want to be involved in the evolution of this program, please
contact me. Also I DEMAND you to fill bug reports and send them to me. That's
the only thing you have to do. Or just PLEASE send a postcard telling me 
you're
using this program, just so I know there's somebody out there. If you send me 
a
disk, preferably containing your private sound-file, (so I can implement new,
nice sounds in coming releases) I will send you the next version as soon as it
is finished. Address at the end of this text.


8. Known bugs

Don't report these bugs:
  a. Sometimes when you shortcut to the soundeditor from MIDI-mode the sound
number goes -1 realtive to the last used.
  b. Notes sometimes "hook up" in the slave mode. (Solution: Use
Sustain/Release=00 sounds if it bothers you (and it does))
  c. Pitch doesn't work on chord, just affects the last note.
  d. Author is sometimes very arrogant in the documentation.
  e. Misspellings in the documentation.


9. Technical notes

Triad Midislave Manager uses memory from $0801 to $f000 with a few glitches.
The MIDI bus is read by an $00f0-speed divisor NMI interrupt running all the
time except during load and save. The MIDI-mode section runs with the ROM
disconnected. The scales used for generating notes are NOT equally-tempered
since that sounds crap, but rather tempered like a normal piano or keyboard.
This documentation is written in Microsoft works on the PC and trasfered using
a vert smart RTF-file converter by me called GNYLF V1.1 (get it!). Your MIDI-
interface uses the 6850 ACIA (Asynchronus Communications Interface Adapter)
chip, the same as is used in the Atari ST(e) computers. The midislave has been
tested with Casio VZ-1, Roland D-50, Kawai K4 and Ensoniq SQ2 keyboards and
with Roland stand alone, Cubase 2.0, 2.01, 3.0 and Cakewalk pro sequencers. 
And
it worked out fine. The author used Zoegas coffe, Black Dog Productions, Pink
Floyd, Hawkwind, The Prodigy and various collections of trance music to get 
by.


10. Thanks to...

TDM / TRIAD (Hans Axelsson) for all hints and betatesting.
STORMBRINGER / ONYX (Fredrik Sch?n) for algorithmic help.
CHRIS / ONYX (Christian Luddeckens) for lending of Midicables and keyboards.
ANDERS VON HOFFSTEN for lending me his Ensoniq SQ2 Keyboard.
DANE / TRIAD for cheering me up. (I will do 100% work on the demo now, I
promise)
JERRY / TRIAD for the patience.
MOTLEY / G*P for always being such a happy and nice person.
TWOFLOWER / TRIAD for liking this program.
FRANK PRINDLE in the States for publishing the MIDI-interface schematic on
Internet.
STEVE COWAN in Canada for support
and YOU for using and spreading this program!


11. Address

If you want to report bugs, complain about something or everything, swap
software, music, coffe or swedish poetry and short-stories, if you just want 
to
make me glad, please write to:

King Fisher / TRIAD
Linus Walleij
Magistratsv?gen 55 N:306
226 44 LUND
SWEDEN
Fone: +46(0)41868513
E-mail: triad at df.lth.se, linus.walleij at microbus.se
Homepage: http://www.df.lth.se/~triad/
Usenet: comp.sys.cbm or alt.fan.hofstadter
(But the extropian netnerds on Usenet really piss me off from time to time.)

And remember: We are all a part of the inevitable...


From moho at mohodisco.com  Wed Mar 13 22:53:20 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:53:20 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Hammers/ SID under MIDI
References: <14b.a5c04c2.29c11e7b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <021e01c1cad9$8167c4e0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

Dang, and just after I ripped the SID out of my old
C64 and threw the rest away...!

Lava

----- Original Message -----
From: <CCartCat at aol.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:28 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Hammers/ SID under MIDI


> Think it was Mark Twain who said that--a very funny and useful line.
>
> As for SID and MIDI, aside from the no-doubt quieter and more flexible
> solutions already mentioned, there is a shareware program for the C64.  If
> you have a MIDI interface for the C64, and the C64 itself, you can control
> the SID inside via MIDI.
>
> For anyone curious, the documentation with contact info (maybe still
current,
> can't say) is copied below.
>
> Kevin Seward
>
> <<Who was it that said, "When the only tool you have is a hammer,
> everything looks like a nail"?  My hammer looks a lot like analog
> tools/experience and my nails look like caps, OP-AMPs, etc.
>
> But I think it was somebody here on this list who's made a MIDI synth
> out of a SID chip (Commodor computer sound chip) and I know there are
> other digital SDIYers.  Their hammers look a lot different.
>
> _Buck (needing more hammers)
> >>
>
> ++++++++++++CONTACT INFO+++++++++
> King Fisher / TRIAD
> Linus Walleij
> Magistratsv?gen 55 N:306
> 226 44 LUND
> SWEDEN
> Fone: +46(0)41868513
> E-mail: triad at df.lth.se, linus.walleij at microbus.se
> Homepage: http://www.df.lth.se/~triad/
> Usenet: comp.sys.cbm or alt.fan.hofstadter
>
> +++++++++++++Documentation++++++++++++++++++++++
> TRIAD MIDISLAVE MANAGER V1.1
>
>
> This helpfile contains:
>
> 1. What is the Triad Midislave Manager?
> 2. Getting started
> 3. The main menu
> 4. The MIDI-mode screen
>   a. Channel
>   b. Transpose
>   c. Programme
>   d. Concate
> 5. The sound editor
>   a. Sound Number
>   b. Name
>   c. Definition
>   d. Pulsewidth
>   e. CTRL-byte
>   f. Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release
>   g. Macro speed
>   h. Fixed note
>   i. Pitching
>   j. Vibrato
>   k. Pulse vibrato
>   l. Filters
>   m. Macro definition
> 6. Loading and saving sounds
> 7. Upgrade, and the future of this program
> 8. Known bugs
> 9. Technical notes
> 10. Thanks to...
> 11. Address
>
>
> 1. What is the triad midislave manager?
>
> So, you've just recieved this program right? OK. If you've got a DATEL /
> Siel+JMS / Passport or Sequential MIDI-interface (or compatible) and a
> keyboard
> or sequencer, you're a real lucky person.
>   The whole idea of the midislave started way back in 1992, some late
night in
> Ljungby, while I visited my good friend Hans Axelsson (that is: TDM of
TRIAD)
> and we discussed the matter of 64-sounds. We talked about rerecording some
of
> TDM's old 64-songs with our MIDI-equipment, but as we had tried it before,
we
> knew the tunes never sounded the same after being transfered from the
original
> note-script to the MIDI-sequencer. Ofcourse there was nothing wrong with
our
> sequencer, it was the sounds that lacked.
>   So I said: "Look, I'll construct a program that reads the MIDI-bus and
> replays the notes with the SID-chip. That should not be too hard."
>   Now I've done it, and the "Triad Midislave Manager" is the result. And
now I
> release it for the market. You can finger your keyboard, and there will be
> sounds flowing out of your C64. Isn't that just wounderful? All of you who
> have
> ever dreamed about using the C64 sounds in MIDI-arrangements, playing live
on
> your 64 or just play around with it - this is the program you need. Share
and
> enjoy!
>   Since I believe "Intellectual Property" (ie Copyright) to be equal to
theft
> from our common legacy of information, this program is released as
freeware.
> Releasing it as freeware also gives me the opportunity to use rude
language in
> the program and this documentation without having to worry about sensitive
> customers, and also free me from any duties in maintaining the code and
making
> the users happy. Yes, it is supplied on what we call an "as-is" basis. If
you
> want me to implement new features and remove bugs, all you have to do is
to
> ask
> me nicely, and perhaps I will do it. I make no promises whatsoever,
because I
> don't WANT you to believe there is some market-sensitive organization
behind
> this program, it's just me.
>   I will not supply you with any standard disclaimers or legal bullshit,
so
> sue
> me if you think this program has made damage to your equipment or
software.
> Any
> court would believe you to be brain-damaged if you think you can nail a
> freeware producer for supplying bad software. I assure you this program is
not
> a Trojan Horse.
>
>
> 2. Getting started
>
> Switch off your computer, insert your MIDI-interface, switch it on again.
Then
> load and run the midislave software. As soon as the midislave main menu is
on
> the screen, your 64 is reading the MIDI-bus for incoming commands. When
the
> menu is lit, turn on your keyboard. If you can't connect the
MIDI-interface
> with the keyboard, the problem is likely one of the following:
>   a. Your keyboard doesn't have a MIDI-port. You should have thought about
> this
> before you bought you keyboard. Sorry to say this, but your keyboard is
pure
> crap.
>   b. You have not understood the VERY simple concept of
MIDI-interconnections,
> which means, you should connect a cable from MIDI OUT on your keyboard, to
> MIDI
> IN on your MIDI-interface. If you can't see what's IN OUT and THRU on your
> interface, LOOK ON THE BACK OF IT!
>   c. There is something wrong with your equipment. Highly unlikely. It's
> probably your fault instead.
>   Once you've got this far, things will hopefully solve themselves. Set
the
> presets, go into MIDI mode, finger your keyboard and... Voila!
>
>
> 3. The main menu
>
> This is your command control centre. You can choose to enter MIDI-mode,
the
> sound editor or to load or save your sounds. Quite self explaining with
the
> exception for "Presets" described below. Oh, and by the way: you can't use
> your
> joystick to choose from this menu. And you never will. This is a tool, not
a
> fucking game.
>   The preset section: This is where you select your MIDI-interface type.
Press
> +/- to change interface type (3 in all) and RETURN when finished. The
> configuration is written to disk and the program is restarted with the new
> interface configuration. I only know about these three Interface types
thanks
> to Frank Prindle who wrote a schematic for an interface, which is
published on
> Internet and available if you look around for it. I haven't tested the
program
> with any other interface than DATEL / Siel+JMS, so I can't assure you it
will
> work with the other types.If you have some other interface, please tell
me!
>   In case you absolutely need it, you can hack the configuration yourself
> using
> a machine-code monitor. Load the file called "-PROGRAM SETUP-" to $1000
and
> edit the adresses used for Control, Transmit, Status, Receive, Reset and
> Enable. The first four values are adresses to the 6850 chip and the 2 last
> values are the byte-values being poked to the command register at startup.
> Doing this requires knowledge of the 6850 chip configuration used by your
> interface, something you could perhaps find out by hacking the software
> distributed along with the interface. If you have an interface which
doesn't
> use the 6850 chip then WOW!, I've never seen such a thing... Almost all
MIDI-
> equipment use the 6850. The Triad Midislave can't handle any other
hardware.
> Sorry.
>
>
> 4. The MIDI-mode screen
>
> This is where the tricky things start. You can see a screen saying "Triad
> Midislave Manager" and some lines of text. Is this all there is? Yes. This
is
> a
> sound program, not a graphics program.
>   Keys you can use in this mode are:
>
>   +/- To increase/decrease option
>   Arrows up/down To choose option
>   Run/Stop to return to the Main menu
>   CTRL To shortcut to the sound editor
>
> The meanings of the different options are:
>   a. Channel. This is the number of the MIDI-channel the midislave is
> currently
> reading. Valid figures are 01 thru 10 (hexadecimal) which gives you access
to
> all 16 MIDI-channels. If you don't know hex numbers: LEARN!
>   b. Transpose. Here you can transpose all played notes by a desired
number of
> halfnotes. Again in hex. You can also antitranspose using the same method.
For
> example +0C = up one octave, -0C = down one octave.
>   c. Programme. This is the number of the current sound. Valid figures are
01
> thru 80, which makes a total of 128 different sounds, as on any good sound
> module. I've given you the possibility to see the decimal number of the
sound
> here. Mainly because many keyboards and sequencers don't use hex... (Even
> though I think they should!)
>   d. Concate. As you already know, the C64 has got only 3 voices, and you
> simply can't do anything about that. This option tells the midislave how
to
> handle a situation where you press more than three keys at a time. If you
have
> CONCATE=YES, the notes you pressed first will be kicked out and replaced
with
> the newer ones. If you WANT the midislave to lock up the three first
pressed,
> not yet released keys, set CONCATE=NO. There is a simple way of avoiding
all
> this trouble: don't press more than three keys at a time. However, piano-
> maniacs have a strange habit of doing so.
>   These are all options and keys on this screen really. There is aswell
some
> text in the windows giving you information that you might be interested in
> during play. If you don't understand this (very simple) information, then
just
> forget about it and pretend it isn't there.
>
>
> 5. The sound editor
>
> Phew, this is the heavy one. (Had to put on som coffe here, recommend
Zoegas
> Sk?nerost.) Again you can press Run/Stop to reach the main menu, and CTRL
to
> shortcut to MIDI-mode. You can press Home to get home, and CLR to clear
the
> whole sound. (Careful!) I will state the rest of the options line by line:
>   a. Sound number. Here you choose the sound you want to edit. Key in the
> sound
> number (in hex ofcourse) or use +/-. Very simple, really.
>   b. Name. State/Edit the name of the current sound. Valid keys are all
> letters
> and numbers, space and Inst/Del.
>   c. Definition. You can't alter this one. I had some idea of making a
> monophonic mode where you could only play one note at a time, using macros
on
> all three channels with ring modulation and such funny stuff. But I've not
> done
> that yet. Maybe in the future, V3.0 or so of midislave.
>   d. Pulsewidth. If you're using pulse sounds (P-bit set in the CTRL-byte)
you
> state the pulsewidth of that wave here. A value of around $800 is
recommended
> for beginners. You can enter the digits directly or use +/-.
>   e. CTRL-byte. This byte tells you the main characteristics of your
sound. If
> you are familiar with C64 sound editors you will easily understand this
one.
> It
> is in hex, and you can key in the digits one by one. Since the gate
bit -MUST-
> be set, you can only enter odd numbers here. Easiest way to experiment:
use
> +/-
> . Beginners should use values of $41, $21 or $11 to get some decent
sounds. To
> the right you've got a binary representation of the CTRL-byte, so you can
> easily see which bits are set. Soundwizards tend to develop a "fingertip"
> sense
> for these bits.
>   f. Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release. Those four lines make up the velocity
> (volume) curve of your sound. If you don't understand it, look it up in
any
> synthesizer book or the C64 programmers reference manual. Or just play
around
> with them until it sounds good. General rule: avoid big figures on
"Attack"
> and
> don't set "Decay" to 0.
>   g. Macro speed. Use +/- to select the macro speed. That is: how often
the
> crap at the bottom of the screen should step up by one, unless the end is
> reached. A frame is a fiftieth of a second, which equals, for exaple: "4
Per
> frame" means the macro is updated every 1/200th of a second. The normal is
> "Every frame".
>   h. Fixed note. If you're making, for example, lasers or drum-sounds,
this
> one
> will be useful. If you've chosen a certain note here, the keyboard will
always
> trigger THAT note, unregarding which key was pressed. Use +/- to select
note,
> or DEL to disconnect this option.
>   i. Pitching. This defines the influence the pitch wheel will have on the
> notes you're playing. You can pitch by halfnote, note, half octave or full
> octave. (Not bad eh?) Thanks to Fredrik Sch^n (best swede at the computer
> olympics in Stockholm) for sketching the interpolation algorithm for me in
a
> few minutes. Again press DEL to disconnect.
>   j. Vibrato. DEL disconnects. Pressing "A" gives you a fixed amplitude, a
> certain speed divisor (relative to the macro speed) and a "Delay-before-
> vibrato" value to play around with. You can't use +/- here, sorry. But
there
> is
> more! Press "W" and you can control the vibrato with a definable wheel on
you
> keyboard! (Most keyboards use Wheel $02 "Modulation" for this.
>   k. Pulse vibrato. Works exactly as the above, just that you can't set
any
> delay for the vibrato. And that the wheel actually don't control the
amplitude
> of the vibrato, it rather controls THE pulsewidth. (Pink Floyd used that
kind
> of effects a lot on their "Wish you were here" album).
>   l. Filters. Here you choose the filter settings. Here it is a lot easier
to
> understand what happens than with most other sound editors. TYP sets the
type
> of filter you use. Use +/- to select. LP means Lowpass, HP = highpass, BP
=
> bandpass and NC = Notch filter. The lowpass cuts the higher overtones
> (treble),
> the highpass cuts the bass, the bandpass cuts both treble and bass (like a
> Wah-
> wah) and the notch cuts a certain interval. The frequency determining the
> -20dB
> threshold can be set with the FRQ value. The frequency will be something
like
> 5,8*FRQ(Decimal)+30 Hz. (You need a calculator for that.) The low and
higpass
> filters attenuates by 12 dB per octave while bandpass and notchfilters
> attenuates by 6 dB per octave. The resonance nibble will peak the
frequency
> nearest the threshold to make the cutoff sound sharper. But it sounds like
> distorsion really. (Useful as such too) If you don't understand a shit of
> this,
> don't bother. Only us electronic phreaks really bother. Play around with
it,
> and you'll soon enogh have that "fingertip" sense for these values. Sorry
for
> not implementing wheel reading on the filter - YET.
>   m. Macro definition. Unless you have a value of $FE in the first
position
> here, these steps will be gone through as described under "Macro speed"
above.
> You can change CTRL-byte, transposing and filtervalue (low byte) for each
step
> of the macro. You can use up to $46 different steps here, and either loop
> ($FF)
> or end ($FE) the macro after these. You have the option of reseting the
Gate
> bit (bit 0 of the CTRL-register) in order to create certain effects, but
be
> careful! It might make your sound sound "instable". A funny way of using
the
> transpose value is to make "Arpeggio", which is: playing chords with
> monophonic
> instruments. The theory behind this is very simple (skip this if you don't
> understand at least a little bit of musical theory): your keyboard
consists of
> 12 different notes: C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# and B, in different
octaves.
> (Warning, most NORMAL musicians often use Eb instead of D#, Ab instead of
G#
> and Bb instead of A#.) These twelve notes can be combined into different
> harmonies known as CHORDS. For example the Emajor-chord, consisting of the
> tones E, G# and B (known as TONIC, TIERCE and QUINT in music theory), of
which
> E is usually played in the lowest pitch. To make this chord, assume that
the
> user will press the E-key on the keyboard, and call that note 0. The first
> transpose value (step 01) should then also be $00. Then you want to play
G#.
> G#
> is 4 halftones higher than E, so the next transpose value (step 02), you
set
> it
> to $04. The last tone, B, is 7 halftones higher in pitch than E, why you
set
> the last transpose value (step 03) to $07. (Pay attention to that we are
> referring to the lowest note (in this case E) all the way.) To create a
> complete arpeggio you should the loop this macro by putting a value of $FF
> into
> the last position (step 04). When E is triggered, all three notes will be
> played ONE AT THE TIME, and then restared, and that will sound lika a
chord or
> some kind of. The funny thing about this is, that whatever key you press,
the
> midislave will produce a major chord with that key as tonic (the chord
main
> note). For most major and minor 3-tone chords the values of the
transposemacro
> will most often be 047 for major and 037 for minor chords, but as you see,
> every chord can be calculated, even jazz if you like. Now, try to put G#
as
> the
> lowest pitch and move E up one octave. Assuming G# is pressed on the
keyboard,
> the transposemacro will be 038. Put B as the lowest and move both E and G#
up
> one octave, and assuming the user pressed B, the macro will be 059. Those
> three
> variations of any 3-note chord, are known as VOICINGS. You can use them to
> colorize your music. (Why don't they ever tell you these things in the
> instructions for common 64-musicprograms?) Quick rundown: Major chord:
047,
> 038
> or 059 - Minor chord: 037, 049 or 058, 047 and 037 are easiest to handle,
when
> you use 038 or 049 arpeggio you must press the tierce of the chord to play
the
> proper chord, and with 059 or 058 chords you will have to press the quint
of
> the chord you want to produce. (Easy, yes?)
>
>
> 6. Loading and saving sounds
>
> To load or save the soundfile, press these alternatives on the main menu.
If
> there is already a soundfile on the disk, it will be scratched and
replaced
> with the new one. Please note that commands (ie. program changes) sent
during
> load or save will not be recognized. This occurs due to the reading of the
> MIDI-bus being switched off during load and save. (Disk routines in the
ROM
> uses timing, and don't want to get interfered with.) This doesn't mean I
> forbid
> you to play while loading or saving, just that funny things could happen
if
> you
> do so. Things might hook up, due to the asynchronus realtime nature of the
> MIDI-protocol.
>
>
> 7. Upgrade, and the future of this program
>
> If somebody else want to be involved in the evolution of this program,
please
> contact me. Also I DEMAND you to fill bug reports and send them to me.
That's
> the only thing you have to do. Or just PLEASE send a postcard telling me
> you're
> using this program, just so I know there's somebody out there. If you send
me
> a
> disk, preferably containing your private sound-file, (so I can implement
new,
> nice sounds in coming releases) I will send you the next version as soon
as it
> is finished. Address at the end of this text.
>
>
> 8. Known bugs
>
> Don't report these bugs:
>   a. Sometimes when you shortcut to the soundeditor from MIDI-mode the
sound
> number goes -1 realtive to the last used.
>   b. Notes sometimes "hook up" in the slave mode. (Solution: Use
> Sustain/Release=00 sounds if it bothers you (and it does))
>   c. Pitch doesn't work on chord, just affects the last note.
>   d. Author is sometimes very arrogant in the documentation.
>   e. Misspellings in the documentation.
>
>
> 9. Technical notes
>
> Triad Midislave Manager uses memory from $0801 to $f000 with a few
glitches.
> The MIDI bus is read by an $00f0-speed divisor NMI interrupt running all
the
> time except during load and save. The MIDI-mode section runs with the ROM
> disconnected. The scales used for generating notes are NOT
equally-tempered
> since that sounds crap, but rather tempered like a normal piano or
keyboard.
> This documentation is written in Microsoft works on the PC and trasfered
using
> a vert smart RTF-file converter by me called GNYLF V1.1 (get it!). Your
MIDI-
> interface uses the 6850 ACIA (Asynchronus Communications Interface
Adapter)
> chip, the same as is used in the Atari ST(e) computers. The midislave has
been
> tested with Casio VZ-1, Roland D-50, Kawai K4 and Ensoniq SQ2 keyboards
and
> with Roland stand alone, Cubase 2.0, 2.01, 3.0 and Cakewalk pro
sequencers.
> And
> it worked out fine. The author used Zoegas coffe, Black Dog Productions,
Pink
> Floyd, Hawkwind, The Prodigy and various collections of trance music to
get
> by.
>
>
> 10. Thanks to...
>
> TDM / TRIAD (Hans Axelsson) for all hints and betatesting.
> STORMBRINGER / ONYX (Fredrik Sch^n) for algorithmic help.
> CHRIS / ONYX (Christian Luddeckens) for lending of Midicables and
keyboards.
> ANDERS VON HOFFSTEN for lending me his Ensoniq SQ2 Keyboard.
> DANE / TRIAD for cheering me up. (I will do 100% work on the demo now, I
> promise)
> JERRY / TRIAD for the patience.
> MOTLEY / G*P for always being such a happy and nice person.
> TWOFLOWER / TRIAD for liking this program.
> FRANK PRINDLE in the States for publishing the MIDI-interface schematic on
> Internet.
> STEVE COWAN in Canada for support
> and YOU for using and spreading this program!
>
>
> 11. Address
>
> If you want to report bugs, complain about something or everything, swap
> software, music, coffe or swedish poetry and short-stories, if you just
want
> to
> make me glad, please write to:
>
> King Fisher / TRIAD
> Linus Walleij
> Magistratsv?gen 55 N:306
> 226 44 LUND
> SWEDEN
> Fone: +46(0)41868513
> E-mail: triad at df.lth.se, linus.walleij at microbus.se
> Homepage: http://www.df.lth.se/~triad/
> Usenet: comp.sys.cbm or alt.fan.hofstadter
> (But the extropian netnerds on Usenet really piss me off from time to
time.)
>
> And remember: We are all a part of the inevitable...
>



From musetrap at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 22:56:50 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:56:50 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
Message-ID: <3C8FCB22.F6EDCAA7@earthlink.net>

Hi Folks,
 In the throes of nostalgia for my Bullet Electronics SE-01 sound
generator kit (lost in the shuffle of time), I ordered some 76477s from
BGMicro.  Does anyone out there have a good circuit schematic which they
would like to share (or sell)?  I'm not too concerned with making a
serious musical instrument, but just a versatile noise and effects
machine.  Any help appreciated.  Thanks.

Regards,
Joe Kramer



From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Wed Mar 13 23:08:52 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:08:52 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Euro card rack
Message-ID: <200203132208.g2DM8pZ19188@yakko.hotkey.net.au>

Does anyone know what 3 unit high Euro card rack cases are worth?
Specifically the open frame types.

Cheers,

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Wed Mar 13 23:18:38 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (oleavitt at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:18:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 2 old Serge panels on ebay
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.1016057918.0.58577500@www.springmail.com>


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=850369512
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=850351382
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=850351804
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=850353225
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=850725894

There's probably more...

Oren

Peter Grenader <pgrenader at mksound.com> wrote:
> Ah, shucks....

Did anyone happen to see what these things ended up going for?  I missed the
end of that auction.  I was interested in the control modules, although I
was fearing the reserve was out of sight.  Couldn't justify it based on
those instruments still being available today, new.  These were 30 years
old.

Anyone see what they closed at?




From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Mar 13 23:27:11 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:27:11 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
Message-ID: <3c8fd23f.6edf.0@telusplanet.net>

All the data for the bullet kit as well as the rat shack data sheet are on my
web page:

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/epeasant/circuits/circuits.html

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com

>Hi Folks,
> In the throes of nostalgia for my Bullet Electronics SE-01 sound
>generator kit (lost in the shuffle of time), I ordered some 76477s from
>BGMicro.  Does anyone out there have a good circuit schematic which they
>would like to share (or sell)?  I'm not too concerned with making a
>serious musical instrument, but just a versatile noise and effects
>machine.  Any help appreciated.  Thanks.
>
>Regards,
>Joe Kramer
>
>


From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Wed Mar 13 23:28:14 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (oleavitt at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 2 old Serge panels on ebay
Message-ID: <Springmail.105.1016058494.0.05185400@www.springmail.com>

Here are the old ones:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=850369512
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1519636632

Oren 

Peter Grenader <pgrenader at mksound.com> wrote:
> Ah, shucks....

Did anyone happen to see what these things ended up going for?  I missed the
end of that auction.  I was interested in the control modules, although I
was fearing the reserve was out of sight.  Couldn't justify it based on
those instruments still being available today, new.  These were 30 years
old.

Anyone see what they closed at?




From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Wed Mar 13 23:38:28 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:38:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
References: <3c8fbe7f.3475.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FD4E4.3BBA5F39@eunet.yu>


8-O

If I've read this somewhere else I wouldn't belive it.
What's the deal here? Is it the charachteristic of the tape
or is it charged during unrolling the tape?


>   3M came to our plant to demo their
> >anti static equipment.  For their demo, they would put a JFET into an
> >instrument to measure the gate leakage current.  I can't remember the FET,
> 
> >but the bias current was something like 1 pico amp.  They would take the part
> 
> >and put it into a "pink" anti static bag (this was the product they were
> >competing against).  The would then take a roll of scotch tape, and pull off
> 
> >a strip of it about 1 foot away from the pink bag.  They would then take the
> 
> >FET back out of the bag and put it into the test instrument, and the Gate
> >leakage would be about 1 nano amp.  The same experiment using the 3M metal
> 
> >coated bag would result in no increase in the gate leakage.  Mind you, nobody
> 
> >ever touched the fets physically to ZAP them.
> 
> We have a 3M static meter at work here, measures to 20KV. It relies on an internal
> radioactive source to function, fun stuff. To check it's calibration you do
> the following:
> 
> "measure the voltage on a piece of Scotch Brand #810 magic mending tape. Pull
> 8" to 10" of tape from the roll and hold in the air so the strip of tape hangs
> down from the hand. The reading should be at least 5000 volts positive at a
> distance of two inches"


-- 



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Wed Mar 13 23:38:34 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:38:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Replacement Parts
References: <F165mnBKSpQRVH8gddl00014173@hotmail.com>
		<bk8v8usuraecll5nvlglvngnqglp90spfj@4ax.com> <20020313.213829.71083003.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3C8FD4EA.85136A62@eunet.yu>


> Depends... the BC560C and BC550C is European and if you are in say USA
> or Japan, you migth be out of luck. But here they are the 2N3904s and
> 2N3905s more or less...

bc559 and bc549 are direct replacements
depending on the circuit those 2nxxx _will_ work (mind the pinout thou)
(as any other generic pnp/npn would in most cases), but those bc's
are low noise high gain transisitors, so they're situated for audio
path, any other will work but eg 2n3904 is universal one, more like
bc238 or something, but if you need it in lfo, envelope or something
noncritical go for any tranny you find (bc557/8 and bc547/8 are ok)


-- 



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From sysyphus at sympatico.ca  Wed Mar 13 23:40:49 2002
From: sysyphus at sympatico.ca (David Reichert)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:40:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Possible Virus
In-Reply-To: <11d.d6fafb8.29bdeb8f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c1cae0$2090a540$9926e440@Sysyphus>

 
Hi everyone,
 
As I was picking up my mail today, one of the messages was found to have
a virus. My virus check software eliminated it rather easily, but I
didn't manage to pick out which message it was. I'd suggest you check
your computers.
 
Dave
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020313/01a755f7/attachment.htm>

From hekovala at kovalainen.fi  Wed Mar 13 23:42:12 2002
From: hekovala at kovalainen.fi (Henri Kovalainen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:42:12 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Hammers/ SID under MIDI
In-Reply-To: <14b.a5c04c2.29c11e7b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0203140026040.14963-100000@skuld.kovalainen.fi>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 CCartCat at aol.com wrote:
> As for SID and MIDI, aside from the no-doubt quieter and more flexible
> solutions already mentioned, there is a shareware program for the C64.  If
> you have a MIDI interface for the C64, and the C64 itself, you can control
> the SID inside via MIDI.

You might also want to check out M64 at:

http://www.algonet.se/~bjonte/AnyWare/M64/

Very neat piece of software (freeware). Patches are made using an own
internal language so they can be as complicated as your CPU can handle.
It's also SuperCPU compatible and runs at 2MHz on a C128 in 64-mode.

| henri kovalainen   | peltokatu 19 b51   | hekovala at kovalainen.fi
| phone: 0400-683750   90120 oulu finland   hekovala at paju.oulu.fi

| Practise economy at any cost.



From musetrap at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 13 23:46:06 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:46:06 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
References: <3c8fd23f.6edf.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FD6AE.BC9FAFD6@earthlink.net>

Dear Doug,
    Thanks for your reply, and bless you for posting the Bullet stuff.  It's
people like you that make the web go round.  To tell you the truth, I had been
there a few days ago and downloaded everything.  Unfortunately the Bullet papers
only show the PC board, not a schematic.  I liked the added multiplexer,
comparator, and pulse generator on the SE-01, but I'd rather not have to trace
out the circuit from the board.  Unless something better comes along, I guess I
might have to.   It seems that interest in this chip has just about reached the
exhaustion point with DIYers.  Too bad.  Thanks for your time and help.

Regards,
Joe Kramer

epeasant at telusplanet.net wrote:

> All the data for the bullet kit as well as the rat shack data sheet are on my
> web page:
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/epeasant/circuits/circuits.html
>
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ______________________
> The Electronic Peasant
>
> www.electronicpeasant.com
>
> >Hi Folks,
> > In the throes of nostalgia for my Bullet Electronics SE-01 sound
> >generator kit (lost in the shuffle of time), I ordered some 76477s from
> >BGMicro.  Does anyone out there have a good circuit schematic which they
> >would like to share (or sell)?  I'm not too concerned with making a
> >serious musical instrument, but just a versatile noise and effects
> >machine.  Any help appreciated.  Thanks.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Joe Kramer
> >
> >





From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Wed Mar 13 23:57:08 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:57:08 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
Message-ID: <3c8fd944.3970.0@telusplanet.net>

>
>8-O
>
>If I've read this somewhere else I wouldn't belive it.
>What's the deal here? Is it the charachteristic of the tape
>or is it charged during unrolling the tape?
>
>
Apparently the charge is created by the unrolling of the tape, so it is caused
by the material that the tape is made from as well as the unrolling/unsticking
action.

I just rubbed my sleeve against my shirt and was easily able to peg the meter
at well over 20KV!

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From toothpick_77 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 14 00:47:05 2002
From: toothpick_77 at hotmail.com (Jimmy Gogas)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:47:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Littleman VCF
Message-ID: <F36dnt9smLuOZCd6qNz0001e309@hotmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020313/fc7b837b/attachment.htm>

From tpe123 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 01:17:00 2002
From: tpe123 at yahoo.com (Tim Escobedo)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:17:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
In-Reply-To: <3C8FCB22.F6EDCAA7@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020314001700.12427.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>

I have a few semi legible scans up from days of old including some
76477 tips.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tpe123

under My Documents

Tim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From mclilith at ezwv.com  Thu Mar 14 01:30:41 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:30:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
In-Reply-To: <3C8FD4E4.3BBA5F39@eunet.yu>
References: <3c8fbe7f.3475.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020313192300.0183f300@mail.ezwv.com>

At 05:38 PM 3/13/02 , >>>marjan<<< wrote:
>
>8-O
>
>If I've read this somewhere else I wouldn't belive it.
>What's the deal here? Is it the charachteristic of the tape
>or is it charged during unrolling the tape?

Go into a *completely* dark room, such as a photographic darkroom. Unroll some
adhesive tape, and watch the actual spot on the roll where the tape is letting
loose of the layer beneath it. If your eyes are properly adapted to the total
darkness of the room, you will actually see some "arcing" taking place.
Different types of adhesive tapes will provide different amounts of visible
activity.

It makes me wonder about the safety of all those anti-static bags that I've
seen, sealed with adhesive tape.  :)


Later,
Glen


From musetrap at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 14 01:54:15 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:54:15 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
References: <20020314001700.12427.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FF4B7.2182949C@earthlink.net>

Dear Tim,
    Thanks, these are excellent!  I'd like to talk more with anyone
who's used these tips in a complete design.  Peace on you.

Regards,
Joe Kramer

Tim Escobedo wrote:

> I have a few semi legible scans up from days of old including some
> 76477 tips.
>
> http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tpe123
>
> under My Documents
>
> Tim
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/





From a0284520 at addcom.de  Thu Mar 14 02:02:39 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:02:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TOG news
References: <2396670128.1016008951@DAVIDA>
Message-ID: <3C8FF6AF.5000803@addcom.de>

people seem to weap instantly.

David Anderson wrote:

>"D minor, the saddest of all keys" - Nigel Tufnell
>
>--On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, 2:53 PM -0800 Tim Ressel
><madhun2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Ken,
>>
>>Okay, so I can't count! I'm still a damn fine
>>engineer!
>>
>>(sigh)
>>
>>Yes, there are 12, not 11. Thanks for pointing it out.
>>It would have been even more embarrassing to get the
>>programming done and the boards made with this little
>>error. 
>>
>>But then, who uses D# anyway?
>>
>>--TR
>>
>>--- Ken Stone <sasami at hotkey.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>>>So 10 macrocells per output * 11 outputs = 110
>>>>macrocells. An XC95108 has 108 macrocells.
>>>>
>>>Excuse me if I'm being dense, but you would need 12
>>>outputs, not 11,
>>>bringing you up to 120 cells needed.
>>>
>>>Ken
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________________________________
>>
>>>Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
>>>Modular Synth PCBs for sale
>>><http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
>>>Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies
>>><http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>
>>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
>>http://mail.yahoo.com/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>David Anderson
>Sr Programmer/Analyst
>
>University @ Buffalo
>User Services
>Academic Services, CIT
>217 Computing Center
>Buffalo, NY 14260
>716.645.2256
>
>




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 02:03:19 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:03:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
In-Reply-To: <3c8fd944.3970.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314010319.34489.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>

Believe it, mon!

When I was doing ESD training, as part of ISO9000
Hell,
one of my demos was to touch the probe on a static
meter, then lift my foot of of the floor. That was
enough to cause a triboelectric charge of 500 volts! 

--TR

--- epeasant at telusplanet.net wrote:
> >
> >8-O
> >
> >If I've read this somewhere else I wouldn't belive
> it.
> >What's the deal here? Is it the charachteristic of
> the tape
> >or is it charged during unrolling the tape?
> >
> >
> Apparently the charge is created by the unrolling of
> the tape, so it is caused
> by the material that the tape is made from as well
> as the unrolling/unsticking
> action.
> 
> I just rubbed my sleeve against my shirt and was
> easily able to peg the meter
> at well over 20KV!
> 
> Take care,
> Doug
> 
> ______________________
> The Electronic Peasant
> 
> www.electronicpeasant.com


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


From a0284520 at addcom.de  Thu Mar 14 04:10:04 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:10:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Serge NTO-type waveshaper
References: <0057440008467099000002L492*@MHS>
Message-ID: <3C90148C.8090009@addcom.de>

Well, It's an oldie, but goodie I think.

Has anyone come up with a take on the Serge NTO-type waveshaper? That 
is, an oscillator with an output that can sweep continuously from saw to 
sine to pulse to square form voltage. There is of course the Kobol 
waveshaper, but that one uses a triangle and not a sine. Also, I think 
with the NTO type you can get both of the Buchla 258 sounds since the 
sine is in between the saw and square (yeah I know the pulse is in 
between the sine and square, but close enough).

one thought i have is to use the concept from the Buchla 208. That's a 
sine oscillator that fades in the saw  and the square (both mixed with a 
negative version of the sine) from a frossfading circuit with a dead 
zone in the middle. Then make that same control do the PWM. Can you make 
 the transistor pair crossfader (for the vactrols) have a dead zone? Do 
you just increase the resistor between the emitters?

3080s could work too.

seems to be a cool circuit.

any ideas?

anyone have the real schematic? I heard it uses a 3900. I just want to 
see it. I won't tell anyone ;)

mark



From a0284520 at addcom.de  Thu Mar 14 04:20:43 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:20:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Serge NTO another quick point...
Message-ID: <3C90170B.2070407@addcom.de>

Of course J?rgen Haible's interpolating scanner and Wiard/Blacet's 
miniwave are such obvious answers for this, they don't need to be 
mentioned. I am looking for simple circuits that perform this magic.

mark



From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Thu Mar 14 05:40:44 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (Oren B. Leavitt)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:40:44 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
References: <3c8fbe7f.3475.0@telusplanet.net> <4.1.20020313192300.0183f300@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <3C9029CB.46D54BB4@ix.netcom.com>

Try that while holding a small neon bulb, like an NE-2, very near the tape.
You probably won't need a dark room for this one!

Oren

Glen wrote:

> At 05:38 PM 3/13/02 , >>>marjan<<< wrote:
> >
> >8-O
> >
> >If I've read this somewhere else I wouldn't belive it.
> >What's the deal here? Is it the charachteristic of the tape
> >or is it charged during unrolling the tape?
>
> Go into a *completely* dark room, such as a photographic darkroom. Unroll some
> adhesive tape, and watch the actual spot on the roll where the tape is letting
> loose of the layer beneath it. If your eyes are properly adapted to the total
> darkness of the room, you will actually see some "arcing" taking place.
> Different types of adhesive tapes will provide different amounts of visible
> activity.
>
> It makes me wonder about the safety of all those anti-static bags that I've
> seen, sealed with adhesive tape.  :)
>
> Later,
> Glen

--
Oren Leavitt
oleavitt at ix.netcom.com




From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Thu Mar 14 06:06:20 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (Oren B. Leavitt)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:06:20 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
References: <20020314001700.12427.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> <3C8FF4B7.2182949C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C902FCC.225D7C9C@ix.netcom.com>

Again indeed!
Thanks for tips and the reminders of a bygone chip-full-o-fun.
I looked thru one my 'junk' drawers where I keep misc ICs and found my
old 76477 that I bought at a local Radio Shack almost 20 years ago -
back when they used to carry that IC.
I think I'll toy around with it...

Oren

Joe Kramer wrote:

> Dear Tim,
>     Thanks, these are excellent!  I'd like to talk more with anyone
> who's used these tips in a complete design.  Peace on you.
>
> Regards,
> Joe Kramer
>
> Tim Escobedo wrote:
>
> > I have a few semi legible scans up from days of old including some
> > 76477 tips.
> >
> > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tpe123
> >
> > under My Documents
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/

--
Oren Leavitt
oleavitt at ix.netcom.com




From ka4hjh at gte.net  Thu Mar 14 06:11:53 2002
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:11:53 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Static Damage to ICs
In-Reply-To: <3c8fd944.3970.0@telusplanet.net>
References: <3c8fd944.3970.0@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <p05100302b8b5da374bfc@[67.201.40.107]>

>>If I've read this somewhere else I wouldn't belive it.

I can't think of any other list where the off-topic stuff is as interesting
as on Synth-DIY.

>>What's the deal here? Is it the charachteristic of the tape
>>or is it charged during unrolling the tape?
>>
>>
>Apparently the charge is created by the unrolling of the tape, so it is caused
>by the material that the tape is made from as well as the unrolling/unsticking
>action.

Unrolling a piece of plastic tape works REALLY well for generating static
electricity! I notice this all the time when wrapping/opening packages.

This is why such a simple device as the van de Graaf generator--which
doesn't have anything touching the belt except the pulleys it's running
around--can create such high potentials. The electrode on top provides a
place for electrons to accumulate (imagine a capacitor with one plate and
the surrounding air as the dielectric). The charge is all on the outside of
the electrode--there's none on the inside because the electrons spread out
on the outer surface in their attempt to avoid each other. A sphere is the
most efficient shape since it can hold the maximum charge while having the
least corona discharge. Torroids also work well.

Then there's that electrostatic generator that works off of water dripping...


>I just rubbed my sleeve against my shirt and was easily able to peg the meter
>at well over 20KV!

I have an ancient 30kV electrostatic voltmeter that looks like something
out of the Frankenstein lab. It has a big insulated electrode sticking out
of it. I don't dare set it anywhere near the van de Graaf when it's running
for fear of frying it.


Needless to say none of this has much to do with building analog
synthesizers but what a great list.

Ozone smells much better than burnt epoxy and melted lacquer.
-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"It gets calls when nothing else works"--Walter Eugene Scott, PdD,
explaining somewhat facetiously why a "TV preacher" was smoking a cigar.


From synth1 at airmail.net  Thu Mar 14 06:39:09 2002
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:39:09 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Robert Rich's Outpost now shipping
Message-ID: <001101c1cb1a$90c67d00$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Robert's new MOTM-centric CD "Outpost" (with UK synthesist Ian Boddy) is now shipping. HIGHY
RECOMMENDED!! It's not as "weird" as Bestiary. Rather, it reminds me more of Eno/Cluster stuff
with more rhythm. Get it directly from his wife Dixie at:

www.rrich.com

and try to catch his tour the next 6 weeks. The largest shows are in Philly, Pittsburgh and SF.
Schedule on his site, on the left frame.

Paul S.
it's in the player as we speak

PS: the cover, by Brad Cole, is wonderful. Brad is a 'nature' photographer with a bizarre sense
of subject matter. He gives me the creeps.

PPS: one day I will describe the "Chamber of Death" 50KV, 1000A ESD tester we built at Reliance
Electric to test 7 foot tall, 21 inch wide telecom racks. Let's just say the EPA and OSHA had a
field day.




From sbernardi at attbi.com  Thu Mar 14 07:24:16 2002
From: sbernardi at attbi.com (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:24:16 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 2N4391 JFET source?
Message-ID: <3C904210.CB216E11@attbi.com>

Anyone know of a good source for the 2N4391 JFET?

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at attbi.com




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 07:51:36 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:51:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
In-Reply-To: <3C8FF4B7.2182949C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020314065136.67157.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>

Yo,

I saw the PWM multiplier in Tim's folder. I built that
circuit as a module. It made for some interesting
effects.

--TR

--- Joe Kramer <musetrap at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Dear Tim,
>     Thanks, these are excellent!  I'd like to talk
> more with anyone
> who's used these tips in a complete design.  Peace
> on you.
> 
> Regards,
> Joe Kramer
> 
> Tim Escobedo wrote:
> 
> > I have a few semi legible scans up from days of
> old including some
> > 76477 tips.
> >
> > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tpe123
> >
> > under My Documents
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/


From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Thu Mar 14 08:24:36 2002
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:24:36 +0100
Subject: Antwort: [sdiy] AN6912 IC in TR-808?
Message-ID: <OF78ACE5B2.C96FE39A-ONC1256B7C.0028967E@idg.se>


>I built the 909 clap just after the 808, and the circuits are almost the
>same.
>I noticed the difference between the cap values between the two, and fixed
>the error.

Did you also notice that R358 in the 808 is supposed to be 68k whereas it
is 18k in the 909 (R221). Maybe this is an error too?

/Jorgen



From colin at colinfraser.com  Thu Mar 14 08:56:58 2002
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:56:58 -0000
Subject: Antwort: [sdiy] AN6912 IC in TR-808?
In-Reply-To: <OF78ACE5B2.C96FE39A-ONC1256B7C.0028967E@idg.se>
Message-ID: <000001c1cb2d$d15e4e70$f61e68d5@zen>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se [mailto:jorgen.bergfors at idg.se] 
> Sent: 14 March 2002 7:25
> To: Colin f
> Cc: Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com; 
> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: Antwort: [sdiy] AN6912 IC in TR-808?
> 
> Did you also notice that R358 in the 808 is supposed to be 
> 68k whereas it
> is 18k in the 909 (R221). Maybe this is an error too?

I didn't remember that one, but I just had a look at my 909 service
manual and the 18k for R221 has been tippexed out and replaced with 68k
in my hand writing, so I must have noticed and checked it out inside a
real 909.

Colin f



From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 09:54:57 2002
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 9:54:57 +0100
Subject: Antwort: [sdiy] AN6912 IC in TR-808?
Message-ID: <20020314085457.MZBO24936.fep08-svc.ttyl.com@localhost>


> > Did you also notice that R358 in the 808 is supposed to be 
> > 68k whereas it
> > is 18k in the 909 (R221). Maybe this is an error too?
> 
> I didn't remember that one, but I just had a look at my 909 service
> manual and the 18k for R221 has been tippexed out and replaced with 68k
> in my hand writing, so I must have noticed and checked it out inside a
> real 909.
> 
> Colin f

Ouch, this one caught me out! I noticed the difference between the two diagrams (actually, I think I used the Boss handclapper circuit, not the 808 IIRC) but because the circuit seemed fine to my ears, I presumed it was an intentional component change (not had a real 909 to look at, unfortunately). I shall substitute the resistor on my handclap circuit tonight. Judging by how my HC circuit sounds at the moment and looking at the 909 schematic, I'm guessing that this value isn't greatly critical. 

I'm really glad this thread started...

Cheers

Trevor.


Trev


_______________________________________________________________________
Never pay another Internet phone bill!
Freeserve AnyTime, for all the Internet access you want, day and night, only ?12.99 per month.
Sign-up at http://www.freeserve.com/time/anytime




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 10:40:19 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:40:19 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Replacement Parts
References: <F165mnBKSpQRVH8gddl00014173@hotmail.com>	<bk8v8usuraecll5nvlglvngnqglp90spfj@4ax.com> <20020313.213829.71083003.cfmd@swipnet.se> <3C8FD4EA.85136A62@eunet.yu>
Message-ID: <013701c1cb47$fc7c36c0$c46b893e@oemcomputer>

>bc559 and bc549 are direct replacements

Actually, the BC550 and BC560 have higher operating voltages (Vce). 45V
compared to 30V.

Regards,

Tony Allgood                       Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Sound Systems                     www.oakleysound.com
Modular projects            www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 10:52:27 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:52:27 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator & demo board
References: <20020311025244.56046.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <013801c1cb47$fd34d860$c46b893e@oemcomputer>

Hi Tim and All,

>It takes a clock in, and produces 15 sin and cos Walsh functions. I am
considering offering it for sale, along with a little demo PCB which has
a 8 (or more?) input mixer for summing the Walsh functions.

First thing that you should know is that the walsh outputs need to be
bipolar. Or at least mixed in a fashion so as not to allow the sumnation
of the wal outputs to affect the DC offset. So just summing TTL type
square waves wrt ground is not going to work properly.

Second thing, is that the mixer should be a reversible attenuator type.
Many types of waveforms, symmetrical ones about OV IIRC, use some
inversed wal outputs.

Third thing is that for bass notes to take on any real power you really
need 31 walsh outputs. I found 15 not as interesting and a little
'electronic'.

But you know the biggest problem with any walsh bank is not the
generation of the walsh series. This can be done pretty simply with
about eight or so cheap HCT chips. The problem is mixing them, and
controlling the pitch over a decent musical range.

Still think that all of this needs to be done in software as a virtual
synth.

Regards,

Tony Allgood                       Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Sound Systems                     www.oakleysound.com
Modular projects            www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm




From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Mar 14 10:57:02 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:57:02
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator & demo board
Message-ID: <20020314185714.PGLD10148.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>

I just looked at it again and I notice that if you
power the CMOS parts at +/- 9v (or less), the CMOS
outputs become bipolar.  Then, a simple pot from
the CMOS buffer output to ground forms a voltage
divider that then outputs the bipolar signal
at any level.  The pot could be a VCA instead to
allow voltage control.  Doing it this way eliminates
the 4 opamps, and all the resistors and at least
most of the DC offset.  If one of the regulators for
this is adjustable, the remaining offset should be 
easily eliminated.  I imagine that +/- 9 v should
also work for the opamp.

Also, I would not use 4049 or 4050, as a buffer, rather 
I would use the 4069.

So if the Walsh generator you have is CMOS based, this
may work for you and simplify it.



Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Tony,
>
>What I did was to "borrow" the summation scheme from
>Scott Gravenhorst's Complex Waveform Generator for the
>Paia Fatman. It seems to work just fine. A coupling
>cap on the output takes care of the DC offset.
>


>http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Paia/Fatman/mods/complex.waveform.generator.gif 
>--TR --- Tony Allgood <oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: 
>> Hi Tim and All, 
>It takes a clock in, and produces 15 sin 
>and cos Walsh functions. I am 
>considering offering it for sale, along with a 
>little demo PCB which has a 8 (or more?) 
>input mixer for summing the Walsh functions.  First thing 
>that you should know is that the walsh 
>outputs need to be bipolar. Or at least mixed 
>in a fashion so as not to  allow the sumnation 
>of the wal outputs to affect the DC offset. So just 
> 
>summing TTL type square waves wrt ground is not going to work 
> 
>properly.  Second thing, is that the mixer should be a 
> 
>reversible attenuator type. Many types of waveforms, 
>symmetrical ones about OV IIRC, use some inversed wal 
>outputs.  Third thing is that for bass notes to take on any 
> 
>real power you really  need 31 walsh outputs. I found 15 
>not as interesting  and a little 'electronic'. 
>But you know the biggest problem with any walsh bank is not 
>the generation of the walsh series. 
>This can be done pretty simply with about 
>eight or so cheap HCT chips. The problem is mixing them, and 
> 
>controlling the pitch over a decent musical range. 
>Still think that all of this needs to be done in 
> software as a virtual synth. 
> > Regards, 
> > Tony Allgood Penrith, Cumbria, 
> > England 
> > Oakley Sound Systems 
> www.oakleysound.com 
> 
>Modular projects 
> www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm 


=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Mar 14 12:03:47 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:03:47
Subject: [sdiy] Reverse Walsh?
Message-ID: <20020314200350.PPKL10148.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Is there something like FFT for Walsh that given an
input curve, the ouput is a set of Walsh function
coefficients?

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From pgrenader at mksound.com  Thu Mar 14 13:07:40 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:07:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
In-Reply-To: <3C90FC93.DBAD3F16@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B8B5E09C.2D99%pgrenader@mksound.com>

On a simular subject,  does anyoe have a handle of Barry Schrader's book
"Introduction to Electro-Acoustic Music"?  Let me know, it's another one
that's out of print.

on 3/14/02 12:40 PM, Joe Kramer at musetrap at earthlink.net wrote:

> Dear Peter,
> Thanks for the info.  I did check Midwest, and somewhere on the site, it says
> they are planning to
> issue The Reprints.  I'm very interested in getting a hold of these.  I have
> "Electronic Music
> Cicuits" by Brice Ward, and "Music Synthesizers" by Delton Horn, and have only
> begun to dig into
> them.  I think it's tragic that valuable books like these should ever go out
> of print and all the
> knowledge be consigned to limbo.  I was really devastated when Stompboxology
> went off the air--my
> letters were "returned to sender" and the site is just gone.  I still haven't
> been ble to find out
> what happened.  They had a wealth of really interesting music circuits. At any
> rate, thanks for your
> time and help!
> 
> Regards,
> Joe Kramer
> 
> 
> Peter Snow wrote:
> 
>> Hi Joe,
>> 
>> This circuit can also be found in Tom Henry's book "Build a better Music
>> Synthesizer".  I think it
>> is out of print but occasionally comes up on Ebay.  Alternatively you can get
>> reprints of all Tom
>> Henry's articles from Midwest Analog in a publication called "Electronic
>> Music Circuits: The
>> Reprints".
>> 
>> Oops! I just checked on Midwest Analog and they do not show "...The Reprints"
>> as being currently
>> available. However Tom occasionally re-runs some of his publications (he's
>> recently re-printed his
>> E-Drum cookbook) so check back or email Tom and find out if he plans another
>> run soon.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> Joe Kramer wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Folks,
>>> Well, I guess I spoke too soon about the waning interest in this
>>> chip!  Thanks to all for your input.  I'm going to call PAIA today and
>>> get the Polyphony back issue with the Super Controller plans.  I know
>>> nothing about this circuit, but something tells me it exploits as much
>>> as possible all the features of the 76477.  Anyone else build this
>>> thing?  What's it do?  Thanks again!
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Joe Kramer
> 
> 
> 




From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Thu Mar 14 13:24:39 2002
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:24:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 stuff (anyone interested?)
Message-ID: <NFBBJMKIGLMKFFANIMJBOEIOCLAA.np@inverse-entertainment.de>

Well, since it's ontopic right now:

I have a book from the early 80th (Wirsum - Praktizierte Elektronik). Got it
from my father when I was jung and my hobby was to build useless electronic
things. It's written in german, so it's not of use for everyone.

Threre are 6 pages with schemantics and examples around the 76477 chip.
Pretty basic stuff. Not much more than you can find out using the
datasheets.

Anyways, since some of you collect information about this chip I would scan
that stuff and email it.

Please reply private,

	Nils Pipenbrinck




From synthos at xs4all.nl  Thu Mar 14 14:30:45 2002
From: synthos at xs4all.nl (Dave Krooshof)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:30:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Steim, worth a look.
In-Reply-To: <3C8D1C8B.44E9A76B@eunet.yu>
References: <009501c1c8ec$b87caca0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
 <3C8D02E1.7D1D9178@wanadoo.nl> <3C8D1C8B.44E9A76B@eunet.yu>
Message-ID: <p05100304b8b6518881fd@[10.0.0.150]>

>>  developments. Head of Steim became Michael Waisvisz, a
>>  composer who was well aware of the abilities of Midi.
>
>was that the guy who's been arrested for performing on those
>crackle boxes (or whatever the name is) in the woods ?
Yes he was!.
The story is on his site http://www.xs4all.nl/~mwais


I like him and his music a lot.


>Perhaps some oldsters remember John Cage's 4'33"  ???
>
>The orchestra does not play... the music is performed by the
>audience...
It's for grand piano! and entirly composed to the standards
of that day. Written out, in three movements.
Famous quotes of John Cage about the piece:
"I like the piece. I still listen to it a lot."
and:
"No, I'm serious. I lost friends over it."
The public was yelling and trowing chairs!
The rocordings are thrilling.

About a decade later, Stockhausens speakers were ruined at
a concert. And this was all way befor Rock and Roll. And the
Who had to trash their amps themselves. Sukkels.



-- 
____________________________________________________
And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles,
and all thy borders of pleasant stones. (Isaiah 54:12)


From Christian at actor.freeuk.com  Thu Mar 14 14:52:23 2002
From: Christian at actor.freeuk.com (Christian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:52:23 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
In-Reply-To: <20020314065136.67157.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3C8FF4B7.2182949C@earthlink.net> <20020314065136.67157.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tla19ug94dg0052t7iv9oia0hqlpigbk6b@4ax.com>

Hi

If anyone wants one of these IC's (SN76477), I have a small quantity
for sale at 10 UKP each.
Any interested, please email me privately.

Best wishes
Christian (London, UK)




From robert at fleebite.to  Thu Mar 14 16:44:57 2002
From: robert at fleebite.to (Robert Leiner)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:44:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Replacement for transistors!
Message-ID: <B8B68408.40EA%robert@fleebite.to>

Hello list.

I'm looking for a replacement for following transistors.

Texas Instrument R3175 and R3176 are also looking for the pin outs
for those, are they PMP or MPM ?

Cheers -
Robert Leiner
____________________________________________________

Robert Leiner      
Fleebite Recordings

http://www.fleebite.to/robert%20Leiner%20infomatica.html
____________________________________________________


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020314/d6043ff1/attachment.htm>

From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 14 18:33:32 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:33:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator & demo board
In-Reply-To: <013801c1cb47$fd34d860$c46b893e@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20020314173332.21307.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>

Tony,

What I did was to "borrow" the summation scheme from
Scott Gravenhorst's Complex Waveform Generator for the
Paia Fatman. It seems to work just fine. A coupling
cap on the output takes care of the DC offset.

http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Paia/Fatman/mods/complex.waveform.generator.gif

--TR

--- Tony Allgood <oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> Hi Tim and All,
> 
> >It takes a clock in, and produces 15 sin and cos
> Walsh functions. I am
> considering offering it for sale, along with a
> little demo PCB which has
> a 8 (or more?) input mixer for summing the Walsh
> functions.
> 
> First thing that you should know is that the walsh
> outputs need to be
> bipolar. Or at least mixed in a fashion so as not to
> allow the sumnation
> of the wal outputs to affect the DC offset. So just
> summing TTL type
> square waves wrt ground is not going to work
> properly.
> 
> Second thing, is that the mixer should be a
> reversible attenuator type.
> Many types of waveforms, symmetrical ones about OV
> IIRC, use some
> inversed wal outputs.
> 
> Third thing is that for bass notes to take on any
> real power you really
> need 31 walsh outputs. I found 15 not as interesting
> and a little
> 'electronic'.
> 
> But you know the biggest problem with any walsh bank
> is not the
> generation of the walsh series. This can be done
> pretty simply with
> about eight or so cheap HCT chips. The problem is
> mixing them, and
> controlling the pitch over a decent musical range.
> 
> Still think that all of this needs to be done in
> software as a virtual
> synth.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tony Allgood                       Penrith, Cumbria,
> England
> 
> Oakley Sound Systems                    
> www.oakleysound.com
> Modular projects           
> www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/


From CCartCat at aol.com  Thu Mar 14 19:12:43 2002
From: CCartCat at aol.com (CCartCat at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:12:43 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Hammers/ SID under MIDI
Message-ID: <11a.d821ea6.29c2421b@aol.com>

<<Dang, and just after I ripped the SID out of my old

C64 and threw the rest away...!


Lava>>

Don't feel bad since:

--the audio out of a C64 is kinda noisy 

--the program, tho' very cool, has quirks which may or may not align 
themselves with what you wanted to do with a SID

--you need to have/find/make a MIDI interface

--and, if the top 3 don't deter you:  C64s still occasionally pop up in 
thrift stores etc.

Have fun,
Kevin Seward




From musetrap at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 14 19:22:16 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:22:16 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
References: <20020314065136.67157.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90EA58.2AB82D12@earthlink.net>

Hi Folks,
    Well, I guess I spoke too soon about the waning interest in this
chip!  Thanks to all for your input.  I'm going to call PAIA today and
get the Polyphony back issue with the Super Controller plans.  I know
nothing about this circuit, but something tells me it exploits as much
as possible all the features of the 76477.  Anyone else build this
thing?  What's it do?  Thanks again!

Regards,
Joe Kramer



From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Thu Mar 14 20:00:24 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:00:24 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] IC chips
Message-ID: <3c90f348.667e.0@telusplanet.net>

Hello, all,

Well, I checked my old IC chips and wasn't able to find the static damaged chip.
However, for those interested, I have taken a couple of internal chip pictures
and put them here:

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/epeasant/circuits/circuits.html

Down at the bottom of the the page is a picture of a 741 and a hex invertor.


Enjoy!
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com 


From psnow at magma.ca  Thu Mar 14 20:10:22 2002
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:10:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
References: <20020314065136.67157.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> <3C90EA58.2AB82D12@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C90F59E.D4173840@magma.ca>

Hi Joe,

This circuit can also be found in Tom Henry's book "Build a better Music Synthesizer".  I think it
is out of print but occasionally comes up on Ebay.  Alternatively you can get reprints of all Tom
Henry's articles from Midwest Analog in a publication called "Electronic Music Circuits: The
Reprints".

Oops! I just checked on Midwest Analog and they do not show "...The Reprints" as being currently
available. However Tom occasionally re-runs some of his publications (he's recently re-printed his
E-Drum cookbook) so check back or email Tom and find out if he plans another run soon.

Cheers,

Peter

Joe Kramer wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
>     Well, I guess I spoke too soon about the waning interest in this
> chip!  Thanks to all for your input.  I'm going to call PAIA today and
> get the Polyphony back issue with the Super Controller plans.  I know
> nothing about this circuit, but something tells me it exploits as much
> as possible all the features of the 76477.  Anyone else build this
> thing?  What's it do?  Thanks again!
> 
> Regards,
> Joe Kramer


From musetrap at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 14 20:40:03 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:03 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 76477 (Again)
References: <20020314065136.67157.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> <3C90EA58.2AB82D12@earthlink.net> <3C90F59E.D4173840@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <3C90FC93.DBAD3F16@earthlink.net>

Dear Peter,
    Thanks for the info.  I did check Midwest, and somewhere on the site, it says they are planning to
issue The Reprints.  I'm very interested in getting a hold of these.  I have "Electronic Music
Cicuits" by Brice Ward, and "Music Synthesizers" by Delton Horn, and have only begun to dig into
them.  I think it's tragic that valuable books like these should ever go out of print and all the
knowledge be consigned to limbo.  I was really devastated when Stompboxology went off the air--my
letters were "returned to sender" and the site is just gone.  I still haven't been ble to find out
what happened.  They had a wealth of really interesting music circuits. At any rate, thanks for your
time and help!

Regards,
Joe Kramer


Peter Snow wrote:

> Hi Joe,
>
> This circuit can also be found in Tom Henry's book "Build a better Music Synthesizer".  I think it
> is out of print but occasionally comes up on Ebay.  Alternatively you can get reprints of all Tom
> Henry's articles from Midwest Analog in a publication called "Electronic Music Circuits: The
> Reprints".
>
> Oops! I just checked on Midwest Analog and they do not show "...The Reprints" as being currently
> available. However Tom occasionally re-runs some of his publications (he's recently re-printed his
> E-Drum cookbook) so check back or email Tom and find out if he plans another run soon.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
>
> Joe Kramer wrote:
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> >     Well, I guess I spoke too soon about the waning interest in this
> > chip!  Thanks to all for your input.  I'm going to call PAIA today and
> > get the Polyphony back issue with the Super Controller plans.  I know
> > nothing about this circuit, but something tells me it exploits as much
> > as possible all the features of the 76477.  Anyone else build this
> > thing?  What's it do?  Thanks again!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Joe Kramer





From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 14 21:38:18 2002
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (Trevor Page)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:38:18 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] More TR909 clone pictures
Message-ID: <001901c1cb98$39361e00$483187d9@tb303>

Hi all,

Just a quick note to say that there are now some more pictures and updated
information on my TR909 clone page. Both boards are now (just about) fully
assembled and look rather funky. Gives a better idea what both of the
completed PCBs look like. No enclosure yet though - that's the next
headache.

www.resonance.fsnet.co.uk/drummachine.html

Kind regards,

Trevor

--
trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk

---> TR909 clone project  <---
www.resonance.fsnet.co.uk/drummachine.html







From monsoon at swissonline.ch  Thu Mar 14 22:20:03 2002
From: monsoon at swissonline.ch (GONZOS DOOM)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:20:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard questions
Message-ID: <3C911402.B41F5B1@swissonline.ch>

good evening everybody,

just back from musikmesse-frankfurt. (fast driving germany, fucking
hell)
nothing realy new things there...

to my question i`m looking round for some keyboards,

-5okt /61keys and  footpedalboard13keys

the only manufacter i know is fatar/italy.

whats the quality diferences between tp/8+tp/9
the type tp/7 i have in my modular system and it's not realy my taste
(cheap plastic)

do anybody have some expirience with keydords???.
are there other manufacturer???

thank you
daniel





From nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk  Thu Mar 14 22:26:51 2002
From: nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:26:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Reverse Walsh?
In-Reply-To: <20020314200350.PPKL10148.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203142119440.14006-100000@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk>


> Is there something like FFT for Walsh that given an input curve, the
> ouput is a set of Walsh function coefficients?

Yes, its called the Walsh Transform.  The reverse, used for synthesis (and
which has been recently discussed) is actaully the Inverse Walsh
Transform, much like the Inverse Fourier Transform.

The WT can be done with a delay line, some resistors and some op-amps
configured as difference amps.  This is ahow the WT was used in radar
systems -- a mercury delay line would shift the analogue data down the
line, with tap points going off to the op-amp matrix.  Needs quite a few
op-amps too.

There's some maths on my walsh page on my website (URL below).  Roughly,
each Walsh term is the sum of each tap multiplied by a Walsh function,
i.e. you add or subtract each sample to generate the Walsh coefficient.

Its a bit hairy, and a *lot* easier to do in a processor!

Hope this helps,
Neil

--
Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::
http://www.njohnson.co.uk          http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22
----  IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk  ----



From Echophazer at aol.com  Thu Mar 14 22:35:59 2002
From: Echophazer at aol.com (Echophazer at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:35:59 EST
Subject: [sdiy] OT Explanation needed.
Message-ID: <11c.dd4c4ca.29c271bf@aol.com>

The operator at rstate at restate.org has been banned from the list.

What was the trespass?



From eduni at ucsd.edu  Thu Mar 14 22:44:31 2002
From: eduni at ucsd.edu (Ethan Duni)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Reverse Walsh?
Message-ID: <200203142144.NAA08164@smtp.ucsd.edu>

At 12:03 PM 3/14/2002, you wrote:
>Is there something like FFT for Walsh that given an
>input curve, the ouput is a set of Walsh function
>coefficients?

-Yes! Its full name is the "Walsh-Hadamard Transform" or WHT for short. the
analysis equation for the WHT is (hopefully you can read my ascii-math
notation):

S[k] = (1/sqrt(N))*sum(s[n]*(-1)^b(k,n)), where the sum is over n from 0 to
N-1 and the results would be computed for coefficients k=0 through N-1. The
function b(k,n) controls the "sequency" of the basis function, and so its
value is the number of transitions basis vector k would have made at time n.
For more detailed info, look for books on transform coding. Also, the WHT
is, happily, a "fast" transform, like the FFT.

Ethan



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Thu Mar 14 23:36:02 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:36:02 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Reverse Walsh?
In-Reply-To: <20020314200350.PPKL10148.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>
References: <20020314200350.PPKL10148.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <20020314.233602.45514863.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
Subject: [sdiy] Reverse Walsh?
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:03:47

> Is there something like FFT for Walsh that given an
> input curve, the ouput is a set of Walsh function
> coefficients?

Both Walsh and Fourier transforms belong to a group of linear
transforms. They have both forward and backward conversion transforms.
So, yes... the Walsh transform exist in both directions.

I am to tired to dig out the details, but you know that I would, don't
you?

Cheers,
Magnus


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Thu Mar 14 23:45:40 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:45:40 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Reverse Walsh?
In-Reply-To: <200203142144.NAA08164@smtp.ucsd.edu>
References: <200203142144.NAA08164@smtp.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <20020314.234540.85413160.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Ethan Duni <eduni at ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Reverse Walsh?
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:31 -0800 (PST)

> At 12:03 PM 3/14/2002, you wrote:
> >Is there something like FFT for Walsh that given an
> >input curve, the ouput is a set of Walsh function
> >coefficients?
> 
> -Yes! Its full name is the "Walsh-Hadamard Transform" or WHT for short. the
> analysis equation for the WHT is (hopefully you can read my ascii-math
> notation):
> 
> S[k] = (1/sqrt(N))*sum(s[n]*(-1)^b(k,n)), where the sum is over n from 0 to
> N-1 and the results would be computed for coefficients k=0 through N-1. The
> function b(k,n) controls the "sequency" of the basis function, and so its
> value is the number of transitions basis vector k would have made at time n.
> For more detailed info, look for books on transform coding. Also, the WHT
> is, happily, a "fast" transform, like the FFT.

In my ASCII math notation that would be

            N-1
            ---
        1   \            b(k,n)
S(k) = ---   >  s(n)*(-1)
         -  /
       \/N  ---
            n=0

Indeed, the Walsh-Hadamard is indeed a "fast" transform, it is even
the fastest, since the butterfly form only contains add's and sub's
and no multiplications. Making Walsh-Hadamard butterflies in software
or digital hardware is a good little exercise in order before doing
the real FFT (which is just sligthly more complex).

It is a pitty that they do not perform as well as DCTs on picture and
audio material.

Cheers,
Magnus


From thescum at surfree.com  Fri Mar 15 00:11:36 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (thescum at surfree.com)
Date: 14 Mar 2002 15:11:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard questions
Message-ID: <20020314231136.28848.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net>

> do anybody have some expirience with keydords???.
> are there other manufacturer???

I hate to say it, but Fatar are one of the few companies making keyboards today.  Off the top of my head, Yamaha also makes their own.  My understanding is that the two of them own the patents needed to make keyboards.

The only people I know who have ever bought the Yamaha keyboards are Korg.  Almost everyone else uses the Fatar, though they often negotiate for special features & quality improvements, especially over the cheap ones that end up with the Fatar name on them.  The better ones offer aftertouch sensors, velocity response and various degrees of key weights...if those are to your taste.

Byron Jacquot




From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Mar 15 02:02:26 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:02:26 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 2N4391 JFET source?
References: <3C904210.CB216E11@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3C914822.FF97B706@silcom.com>

    I think Future-Active stocks this part....You can also use the J111
(same die, TO-92 package), and they are cheaper (but you have to map the
pinout).

Scott Bernardi wrote:

> Anyone know of a good source for the 2N4391 JFET?
>
> --
> Scott Bernardi
> sbernardi at attbi.com

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From shudder at optusnet.com.au  Fri Mar 15 03:27:23 2002
From: shudder at optusnet.com.au (Sean Ellis)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:27:23 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] PIC Matrix controller
Message-ID: <002701c1cbc9$00f66fa0$1b05fea9@workstation>

Hi everyone,

R. G. Keen is working on a great looking project for a modular.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/ASMOP/ASMOP.htm

Hope he works MIDI into these somewhere.

Regards,
Sean



From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Fri Mar 15 04:29:25 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:29:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] don't touch....
References: <3C904210.CB216E11@attbi.com> <3C914822.FF97B706@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3C916A95.16400612@verizon.net>



I don't think anybody mentioned these, but Alesis has two new(ish)
products.

the AirFX and the AirSynth

they have some sort of 3D sensor that can change 3 parameters, by the
three directions your had goes.. forward/reverse, left/right,
near/far.

haven't tried one, but want to.

-ben


From sbernardi at attbi.com  Fri Mar 15 06:49:00 2002
From: sbernardi at attbi.com (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:49:00 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 2N4391 JFET source?
References: <3C904210.CB216E11@attbi.com> <3C914822.FF97B706@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3C918B4C.DC774876@attbi.com>

I found a source in smaller quantities - Unicorn Electronics
www.unicornelectronics.com has them for $0.79 1-25,  $0.75 25-99.  They have
a $20 minimum order.

patchell wrote:

>     I think Future-Active stocks this part....You can also use the J111
> (same die, TO-92 package), and they are cheaper (but you have to map the
> pinout).
>
> Scott Bernardi wrote:
>
> > Anyone know of a good source for the 2N4391 JFET?
> >
> > --
> > Scott Bernardi
> > sbernardi at attbi.com
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at attbi.com




From pgrenader at mksound.com  Fri Mar 15 09:07:05 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:07:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] d=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=pfer touchplate keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3C91E612.7080106@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <B8B6F9B9.2DB3%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Yes, I saw this the other day.  Looks (very) interesting. I have already
sent Deiter my functionality wishlist for the beast.  Now the Serge unit
will have some serious competition - possibly we could expect to see an
actual feature enchancement to the 30 year old TKB as a result!  They'll
have to do something because surely the price point for the Deopfer unit
will step all over the Serge!

 3/15/02 5:16 AM, mark verbos at a0284520 at addcom.de wrote:

> did anybody else see that doepfer is making a touchplate keyboard now? I
> just saw the mock up on their webpage, but they claim to have a
> protoype. I wonder if they used the serge TKB schematic for that!
> 
> mark
> 




From pgrenader at mksound.com  Fri Mar 15 09:34:16 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:34:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Serge Tcherepnin Update
In-Reply-To: <v03130300b8b780281896@208.58.249.237>
Message-ID: <B8B70018.2DB9%pgrenader@mksound.com>


If any of you are interested, a buddy of mine just got back from Paris and
had an oppuratunity to have a meal with the founder of the Serge
Synthesizer, Serge Tcherepnin.  They were old pals from Cal Arts.

Serge now lives with his wife in Paris in an apartment his parents used to
own.  There is also a property in Fountainbleu, although I am not sure if he
stays there or leases out. I would surely opt for Fountainbleu as its agreat
little city. Unfortunaely, Serge has just had a triple bypass.  He is in
good spirits, better health, but has lost considerable weight.

I heard he's writing music again, and also doing some work with composer
Arvo Part.

so there you go.

best,

P




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Fri Mar 15 13:16:18 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:16:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?d=F6pfer?= touchplate keyboard
References: <002701c1cbc9$00f66fa0$1b05fea9@workstation>
Message-ID: <3C91E612.7080106@addcom.de>

did anybody else see that doepfer is making a touchplate keyboard now? I 
just saw the mock up on their webpage, but they claim to have a 
protoype. I wonder if they used the serge TKB schematic for that!

mark



From krhen at stucki.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:52 2002
From: krhen at stucki.com (Rhen, Kris)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:59:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_=5Bsdiy=5D_d=F6pfer_touchplate_keyboard?=
Message-ID: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9AB@stu-nt1.stucki.com>

Why would you think that?  It looks totally different.  Functionality
similar in some ways but different.  Ever seen the serge?
http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/images/LMtouch_keyboard.gif
for comparison
http://www.doepfer.de/a100tkb.gif
KRIS

> -----Original Message-----
> did anybody else see that doepfer is making a touchplate 
> keyboard now? I 
> just saw the mock up on their webpage, but they claim to have a 
> protoype. I wonder if they used the serge TKB schematic for that!
> 
> mark
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020315/c16ea1b7/attachment.htm>

From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Mar 15 13:54:53 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:54:53
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
Message-ID: <20020315215455.WXXD10148.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>

You can also use a dinosaur PC.  I've done similar
things (Actually even more complex) with a PC MIDI card
(any that can emulate the MPU-401 UART mode).  How about
keyboard portamento on a digital synth?  Using an old
PC, the smallest HD you can find (heck, even a diskette), 
DOS and a ISA PC MIDI card, you can load different 
programs for different purposes.

Get the Jim Conger book: "MIDI Programming in C".

I've used processors as slow as 286-12.  I'd bet you
might be able to find something for free, and a whole
lot faster.  Graphics adapter can be any, including mono.

Recycle a PC!

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Fri Mar 15 15:49:48 2002
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:49:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wire selection question
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020315094948.007c07d0@hoohahrecords.com>

Hi List,

I'm currently building a little "studio" in my basement... and I'm adding a
table for gear that guests bring with them.  I'd like to run a pair of MIDI
cables (and 4 balaned audio lines) between this "guest" location and my
rack.  

I have some twisted-pair wire here, and I was wondering if you think it
would be acceptable for the MIDI connections.  The cable will be about 25
feet long and run in the stud cavities.  My cable is (4) twisted pairs with
a 100% foil shield and a drain.  The conductors are single strand... about
20 or 22ga.  

Since it'll be in a wall, I'm not concerned about the single strand wires
breaking.  Electrically do you think it will work well for a MIDI
application?  It's twisted-pair computer network cable, so I'm thinking
it'll be okay.  

Thanks in advance!

Dave Magnuson

Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From pgrenader at mksound.com  Fri Mar 15 16:29:24 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:29:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [sdiy] d?pfer touchplate keyboard
In-Reply-To: <200203151032020150.0525DD76@161.58.178.202>
Message-ID: <B8B76164.2DE0%pgrenader@mksound.com>


> First and most obvious is the 12-tone centricness of the design. The touch
> aspect is cool, but one of the neat things about the Serge is that it
> divorces the controller from the "organ keyboard" oriented approach found
> in most synths.
> 

Remember,  this keyboard has voltage pots for dialing up the output level of
each key.  In this regard, the fact that they are arranged as a 12 piano
keyboard makes no difference - they could be laid down in a line like Serge
or Buchla's older units -or- in a circle for all that matter.





From media.nai at rcn.com  Fri Mar 15 16:59:11 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:59:11 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wire selection question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020315094948.007c07d0@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <v03130300b8b780281896@208.58.249.237>

At 9:49 AM -0500 03/15/02, Dave Magnuson wrote:
>
>I have some twisted-pair wire here, and I was wondering if you think it
>would be acceptable for the MIDI connections.  The cable will be about 25
>feet long and run in the stud cavities.  My cable is (4) twisted pairs with
>a 100% foil shield and a drain.  The conductors are single strand... about
>20 or 22ga.
>
>Since it'll be in a wall, I'm not concerned about the single strand wires
>breaking.  Electrically do you think it will work well for a MIDI
>application?  It's twisted-pair computer network cable, so I'm thinking
>it'll be okay.

I'm thinking it could work, but it would not be within the MIDI spec.
Contrary to popular belief, MIDI specifies three conductors using a
shielded two conductor twisted pair, a signal on pin 5, a +5V bias voltage
on pin 4, and pin 2 grounded to the shield on one end.  Each twisted pair
should have its own separate shield.  Using a common shield for several
pairs could cause problems.




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Fri Mar 15 17:37:48 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:37:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?d=F6pfer?= touchplate keyboard
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9AB@stu-nt1.stucki.com>
Message-ID: <3C92235C.3060507@addcom.de>

They don't have to look alike to come from the same schematic. : \
I didn't say they looked the same.


 funny that the image is called a100tkb , since it's such a radical 
departure.


mark

> Why would you think that?  It looks totally different.  Functionality 
> similar in some ways but different.  Ever seen the serge?
>
> http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/images/LMtouch_keyboard.gif
> for comparison
> http://www.doepfer.de/a100tkb.gif
> KRIS
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > did anybody else see that doepfer is making a touchplate
> > keyboard now? I
> > just saw the mock up on their webpage, but they claim to have a
> > protoype. I wonder if they used the serge TKB schematic for that!
> >
> > mark
> >
>




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Fri Mar 15 17:40:14 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:40:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?d=F6pfer?= touchplate keyboard
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9AB@stu-nt1.stucki.com>
Message-ID: <3C9223EE.2030109@addcom.de>

Is the Doepfer boolean logic module just coincidentally similar to a 
certain Serge module too?

mark

Rhen, Kris wrote:

> Why would you think that?  It looks totally different.  Functionality 
> similar in some ways but different.  Ever seen the serge?
>
> http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/images/LMtouch_keyboard.gif
> for comparison
> http://www.doepfer.de/a100tkb.gif
> KRIS
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > did anybody else see that doepfer is making a touchplate
> > keyboard now? I
> > just saw the mock up on their webpage, but they claim to have a
> > protoype. I wonder if they used the serge TKB schematic for that!
> >
> > mark
> >
>




From krhen at stucki.com  Fri Mar 15 18:05:02 2002
From: krhen at stucki.com (Rhen, Kris)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:05:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_RE=3A_=5Bsdiy=5D_d=F6pfer_touchplate_keyb?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?oard?=
Message-ID: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9C0@stu-nt1.stucki.com>

Hmmm... lets see...
http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/images/bool.JPG
and
http://www.doepfer.de/a166.gif
Looks different to me (serge=2 ins, doep=3, doep has three diff functional
outputs for each set, serge is fixed oen output per input pair... not at all
alike... buuuut...   I'm curious how would you change a set of ANDS, ORS and
NOTs?  and why would you?  Not really much there to change in any case.  In
fact I'd wager the Doepfer logic module is as far from the Serge logic
module design as possible without it becoming a VCO :-)  
KRIS

> -----Original Message-----
> Is the Doepfer boolean logic module just coincidentally similar to a 
> certain Serge module too?
> 
> Rhen, Kris wrote:
> 
> > Why would you think that?  It looks totally different.  
> Functionality 
> > similar in some ways but different.  Ever seen the serge?
> >
> > http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/images/LMtouch_keyboard.gif
> > for comparison
> > http://www.doepfer.de/a100tkb.gif
> > KRIS
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > did anybody else see that doepfer is making a touchplate
> > > keyboard now? I
> > > just saw the mock up on their webpage, but they claim to have a
> > > protoype. I wonder if they used the serge TKB schematic for that!
> > >
> > > mark
> > >
> >
> 
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020315/8aa7d0ea/attachment.htm>

From krhen at stucki.com  Fri Mar 15 18:13:34 2002
From: krhen at stucki.com (Rhen, Kris)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:13:34 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_RE=3A_=5Bsdiy=5D_d=F6pfer_touchplate_keyb?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?oard?=
Message-ID: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9C1@stu-nt1.stucki.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> They don't have to look alike to come from the same schematic. : \
> I didn't say they looked the same.
 
So then your statement, without the schematics, is pretty useless, and the
only reason you'd wonder out loud such a thing is to make others wonder too
:-)  But again, even from the pic, anyone can see there's enough
functionality difference that surely the same schematic isn't under there...
 
>  funny that the image is called a100tkb , since it's such a radical 
> departure.

not really, its not really a 'module' - being designed to stand outside of a
case if necessary etc.  More of a 'component' so it is named like the power
supply (a100nt12) or the case (a100g6 or a100g3) or the a100bs1 and a100bs2,
a100bsm.. I guess they could have named it a FKB instead of a TKB ('finger'
instaed of 'touch'...)
KRIS
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020315/57a0ee68/attachment.htm>

From Ordeish at aol.com  Fri Mar 15 18:24:10 2002
From: Ordeish at aol.com (Ordeish at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:24:10 EST
Subject: [sdiy] sort of newbie...first success!!!
Message-ID: <188.4e17612.29c3883a@aol.com>

 Hi all. I just wanted to say that I am joining you all in the wonderful building of synths. Ive recently completed a Paia midi2cv8. It was more fun than I had even thought it would be. I have had past experience in repairing some of my analogs, but I have never done anything from scratch. The Paia kit was a great place to start. The manual was unbelievably well written. I finished it in a night and a morning, with no problems that a quick call to Paia did not solve. 
 Next on the board is the Paia midi brain with the fader eprom. I am very excited for this one as well. After that I have two circuit boards coming from Ken Stone. I am very excited about those, and feel that I am definitely ready for them. Thanks to all for answering any questions Ive had. This group is great!

edward s.


From a0284520 at addcom.de  Fri Mar 15 18:38:04 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:38:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?d=F6pfer?= touchplate keyboard
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9C1@stu-nt1.stucki.com>
Message-ID: <3C92317C.3070008@addcom.de>



Rhen, Kris wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > They don't have to look alike to come from the same schematic. : \
> > I didn't say they looked the same.
>  
> So then your statement, without the schematics, is pretty useless, and 
> the only reason you'd wonder out loud such a thing is to make others 
> wonder too :-)  But again, even from the pic, anyone can see there's 
> enough functionality difference that surely the same schematic isn't 
> under there...
>
http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Serge/schematics/

add another pair of 4051's with their enable pins toggled from the 
trigger to get the individual pulse outs. The individual CV outs come 
from before the summing section. for each row of pots.

If he does add MIDI, which has not been done yet, then there will be 
something new on the table.


>  
> >  funny that the image is called a100tkb , since it's such a radical
> > departure.
>
> not really, its not really a 'module' - being designed to stand 
> outside of a case if necessary etc.  More of a 'component' so it is 
> named like the power supply (a100nt12) or the case (a100g6 or a100g3) 
> or the a100bs1 and a100bs2, a100bsm.. I guess they could have named it 
> a FKB instead of a TKB ('finger' instaed of 'touch'...)
>
> KRIS
>




From krhen at stucki.com  Fri Mar 15 19:00:38 2002
From: krhen at stucki.com (Rhen, Kris)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:00:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_RE=3A_RE=3A_=5Bsdiy=5D_d=F6pfer_touchplat?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?e_keyboard?=
Message-ID: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9C4@stu-nt1.stucki.com>

> > So then your statement, without the schematics, is pretty 
> useless, and 
> > the only reason you'd wonder out loud such a thing is to 
> make others 
> > wonder too :-)  But again, even from the pic, anyone can 
> see there's 
> > enough functionality difference that surely the same 
> schematic isn't 
> > under there...
> >
> http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Serge/schematics/
> 
> add another pair of 4051's with their enable pins toggled from the 
> trigger to get the individual pulse outs. The individual CV outs come 
> from before the summing section. for each row of pots.
> 
> If he does add MIDI, which has not been done yet, then there will be 
> something new on the table.

I believe there's lots of digital under the Doepfer overall from what
they've said.  Does the serge have a Microp (I can't tell)?

Besides, how many manufacturers really bring 'new things' to the table?  How
many have made their OWN version of a VA?  How many made their OWN version
of a MIDI controller, or even a keyboard for an analog?  Just because it
fills a similar need doesn't make it bad all of a sudden - otherwise all the
Modular manufacturers here should pack up and go home because their mixers
use opamps...
KRIS
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020315/1fd79a85/attachment.htm>

From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Fri Mar 15 19:10:39 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:10:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] soundbug??? (OT)
Message-ID: <3C92391F.817C637A@verizon.net>



what about this new little device...
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2106596,00.html

soundbug.. like an audio transducer.. stick it onto a desk (with
suction cup) and it turns the desk into a huge speaker...

what I want to know, is if it puts out 400 lbs of force, how can they
stick it onto a window without the window shattering?

-ben


From psnow at magma.ca  Fri Mar 15 19:18:12 2002
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:18:12 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Serge Tcherepnin Update
References: <B8B70018.2DB9%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <3C923AE4.58144680@magma.ca>

Peter,

Thanks for the update.  Personally I really enjoy those "whatever happened too..." threads. Must be
something to do with getting old myself!  (listening to the Frampton Comes Alive CD as I type this)

Cheers,

Peter

Peter Grenader wrote:
> 
> If any of you are interested, a buddy of mine just got back from Paris and
> had an oppuratunity to have a meal with the founder of the Serge
> Synthesizer, Serge Tcherepnin.  They were old pals from Cal Arts.
> 
> Serge now lives with his wife in Paris in an apartment his parents used to
> own.  There is also a property in Fountainbleu, although I am not sure if he
> stays there or leases out. I would surely opt for Fountainbleu as its agreat
> little city. Unfortunaely, Serge has just had a triple bypass.  He is in
> good spirits, better health, but has lost considerable weight.
> 
> I heard he's writing music again, and also doing some work with composer
> Arvo Part.
> 
> so there you go.
> 
> best,
> 
> P


From jamos at technotoys.com  Fri Mar 15 19:32:02 2002
From: jamos at technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:32:02 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] =?us-ascii?B?UmU6IFtzZGl5XSBk9nBmZXIgdG91Y2hwbGF0ZSBrZXlib2FyZA==?=
In-Reply-To: <B8B6F9B9.2DB3%pgrenader@mksound.com>
References: <B8B6F9B9.2DB3%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <200203151032020150.0525DD76@161.58.178.202>

My take is that I don't think the Doepfer keyboard is at all in the same
class as the Serge TKB, and doesn't even seem to be very well thought out.

First and most obvious is the 12-tone centricness of the design. The touch
aspect is cool, but one of the neat things about the Serge is that it
divorces the controller from the "organ keyboard" oriented approach found
in most synths.

So the corollary is that the arrangement of the pots, and the 25-step
length of the sequence, are absurd. These are compromises clearly made in
deference to the organ keyboard layout.

Other things that are weird: the 25 outputs for the 25 pots. yeah, I'll
agree that undedicated CV pots are a nice thing to have on a synth.. but 25
of them? Also tied in to the sequencer functionality? Feh. 

And finally: anyone notice that this lacks a Reset input? So you get
25-step sequences, period. Not very useful.

The other Doepfer sequencer looks really cool; too bad about the TKB.

Jim Johnson 
Metaphoric Software
-------------------
Makers of Techno Toys
Software for Electronic Music
http://www.technotoys.com
info at technotoys.com


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/15/02 at 1:07 AM Peter Grenader wrote:

>Yes, I saw this the other day.  Looks (very) interesting. I have already
>sent Deiter my functionality wishlist for the beast.  Now the Serge unit
>will have some serious competition - possibly we could expect to see an
>actual feature enchancement to the 30 year old TKB as a result!  They'll
>have to do something because surely the price point for the Deopfer unit
>will step all over the Serge!
>
> 3/15/02 5:16 AM, mark verbos at a0284520 at addcom.de wrote:
>
>> did anybody else see that doepfer is making a touchplate keyboard now? I
>> just saw the mock up on their webpage, but they claim to have a
>> protoype. I wonder if they used the serge TKB schematic for that!
>> 
>> mark
>>





From djmarmalade at planetp.org  Fri Mar 15 19:37:57 2002
From: djmarmalade at planetp.org (DJ Marmalade)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:37:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_RE:_=5Bsdiy=5D_d=F6pfer_touchplate_keyboard?=
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9AB@stu-nt1.stucki.com> <3C9223EE.2030109@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <00bf01c1cc50$86d46140$3da2d03f@gretta>

In fairness, even if they did grab the idea from serge, you can hardly call
a boolean module a unique piece of inspiration.

Daryl

----- Original Message -----
From: mark verbos <a0284520 at addcom.de>
To: synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [sdiy] d?pfer touchplate keyboard


> Is the Doepfer boolean logic module just coincidentally similar to a
> certain Serge module too?
>
> mark
>
> Rhen, Kris wrote:
>
> > Why would you think that?  It looks totally different.  Functionality
> > similar in some ways but different.  Ever seen the serge?
> >
> > http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/images/LMtouch_keyboard.gif
> > for comparison
> > http://www.doepfer.de/a100tkb.gif
> > KRIS
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > did anybody else see that doepfer is making a touchplate
> > > keyboard now? I
> > > just saw the mock up on their webpage, but they claim to have a
> > > protoype. I wonder if they used the serge TKB schematic for that!
> > >
> > > mark
> > >
> >
>
>



From moho at mohodisco.com  Fri Mar 15 20:01:30 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:01:30 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
Message-ID: <012901c1cc53$d42e4ac0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

I want to make a little box with
a 3-way switch on it that changes
incoming midi on channel 1 to 
channels 1, 2, or 3.  I'd like to
do it with only one MIDI in and
one MIDI out.  I don't want to
make a switcher with 3 outs.

Do you guys think this would be
hard to make?  And would I have
to program an eeprom or something
to accomplish this?

Thanks,

Lava


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 15 20:07:30 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:07:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh gennie app
Message-ID: <20020315190730.72730.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi y'all,

I just had a wicked idea. I was gonna turn one of my
raw kbds into a drawbar organ-looking-thing. You know
the setup: TOG goes into a big honkin' divider. Then
harmonics get mixed in via diodes signaled by the
drawbar settings. Then each key goes thru a ota vca.
Its the same setup as Don Lancasters synth shown in
the Cmos Cookbook.

Instead of dividers, what if I used the Walsh chip?
Instead of drawbars, I use a processor to set the
Walsh coeffs. Since the Walsh chip has 16 sin and cos
outputs, getting the next octave lower is a simple as
selecting coeffs farther down the line.

You would be able to do almost any waveform, and it'd
be poly! hmmm....

--TR

*********************
When in doubt,
Do the audacious one!
*********************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/


From network-909 at gmx.de  Fri Mar 15 20:15:39 2002
From: network-909 at gmx.de (R@F)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:15:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Doepfer schematics
Message-ID: <005301c1cc55$cb8bae60$db2ce4d9@athlon800>

Hey there,

delicious subject talking about Doepfer technical details but I was just wondering if anyone got this service manual book for the A100 which doepfer seems to sell to A100 customers only....


greets
R at F
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020315/9bc88bf2/attachment.htm>

From james at ersatzplanet.com  Fri Mar 15 20:29:53 2002
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:29:53 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] soundbug??? (OT)
In-Reply-To: <3C92391F.817C637A@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B8B78BB1.1AC58%james@ersatzplanet.com>

on 3/15/02 10:10 AM, Chromatest Pantsmaker at
chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net wrote:

> 
> 
> what about this new little device...
> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2106596,00.html
> 
> soundbug.. like an audio transducer.. stick it onto a desk (with
> suction cup) and it turns the desk into a huge speaker...
> 
> what I want to know, is if it puts out 400 lbs of force, how can they
> stick it onto a window without the window shattering?
> 
> -ben
> 
There used to be devices similar to these sold 30 years ago. I used to run
the light show for a band of my brothers' and the bass player used to use
them. He had a couple of folded horn design cabinets with them screwed into
the cabinet backs. All low end. After each gig he would have to screw the
cabinets back together cause they vibrated apart! On some gigs, if the stage
was right for it, he would take the backs off and lay them flat on the stage
and put some lead stage weights (used to keep scenery in place) on them and
use the whole stage as a low end speaker. He drove them with some old Army
PA system that came in a steel watertight box (green of course). Pretty
wild. Hardly any high end at all. I think the Heath corporation (remember
Heathkits?) sold them for a while. The models I remember were always screwed
into the walls, not suction cupped. The problem is the walls transmit on
both sides of course, yours and your neighbors! They called them "audio
transducers". These would be GREAT for dub and Reggae.
-James
--
"Welcome to the first day of the rest of your money."

James Husted                        The ErsatZ Planet
james at ersatzplanet.com           www.ersatzplanet.com






From amajorel at teaser.fr  Fri Mar 15 21:06:05 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:06:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
In-Reply-To: <012901c1cc53$d42e4ac0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
References: <012901c1cc53$d42e4ac0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
Message-ID: <20020315200605.GF1068@teaser.fr>

On 2002-03-15 11:01 -0800, Moho Disco wrote:

> I want to make a little box with
> a 3-way switch on it that changes
> incoming midi on channel 1 to 
> channels 1, 2, or 3.  I'd like to
> do it with only one MIDI in and
> one MIDI out.  I don't want to
> make a switcher with 3 outs.
> 
> Do you guys think this would be
> hard to make?  And would I have
> to program an eeprom or something
> to accomplish this?

Doesn't look too hard. I guess you would need an UART and a
microcontroller that runs a code somewhat like this one :

  int chin  = 0;
  int chout = 1;
  for (;;)
  {
    unsigned char b = getc (midi_in);
    if ((b & 0x80) && b < 0xf0 && (b & 0x0f) == chin)
      b = (b & 0xf0) | chout;
    putc (b, midi_out);
  }

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
std::disclaimer ("Not speaking for my employer");


From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Fri Mar 15 21:09:54 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:09:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] soundbug??? (OT)
References: <3C92391F.817C637A@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c1cc5d$5f7962a0$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>

This is old technology.

The Dorian Gray in Frankfurt, Germany, has had something like this for
years. They use a simple stage as a bass and midrange speaker iirc.
This was back in 1989.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chromatest Pantsmaker" <chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net>
To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 1:10 PM
Subject: [sdiy] soundbug??? (OT)


>
>
> what about this new little device...
> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2106596,00.html
>
> soundbug.. like an audio transducer.. stick it onto a desk (with
> suction cup) and it turns the desk into a huge speaker...
>
> what I want to know, is if it puts out 400 lbs of force, how can
they
> stick it onto a window without the window shattering?
>
> -ben



From moho at mohodisco.com  Fri Mar 15 21:29:07 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:29:07 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
References: <012901c1cc53$d42e4ac0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk> <20020315200605.GF1068@teaser.fr>
Message-ID: <01a101c1cc60$11afb8a0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

Buddy, you just pushed the "voluntarily
get annoyed by a newbie for a couple
days" button...

Thanks for the info, I'll be in touch
privately (unless anybody else wants
to know how to do this?)

Lava

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre Majorel" <amajorel at teaser.fr>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI Switch


> On 2002-03-15 11:01 -0800, Moho Disco wrote:
>
> > I want to make a little box with
> > a 3-way switch on it that changes
> > incoming midi on channel 1 to
> > channels 1, 2, or 3.  I'd like to
> > do it with only one MIDI in and
> > one MIDI out.  I don't want to
> > make a switcher with 3 outs.
> >
> > Do you guys think this would be
> > hard to make?  And would I have
> > to program an eeprom or something
> > to accomplish this?
>
> Doesn't look too hard. I guess you would need an UART and a
> microcontroller that runs a code somewhat like this one :
>
>   int chin  = 0;
>   int chout = 1;
>   for (;;)
>   {
>     unsigned char b = getc (midi_in);
>     if ((b & 0x80) && b < 0xf0 && (b & 0x0f) == chin)
>       b = (b & 0xf0) | chout;
>     putc (b, midi_out);
>   }
>
> --
> Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
> std::disclaimer ("Not speaking for my employer");
>



From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Mar 15 21:30:03 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (Jim Patchell)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:30:03 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
References: <012901c1cc53$d42e4ac0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
Message-ID: <3C9259CB.5A56C690@silcom.com>

    If you did this, it will involve a micro (PIC or AVR is probably a
good choice).  It would be fairly easy to program...if you do that sort
of thing...

Moho Disco wrote:

> I want to make a little box with
> a 3-way switch on it that changes
> incoming midi on channel 1 to
> channels 1, 2, or 3.  I'd like to
> do it with only one MIDI in and
> one MIDI out.  I don't want to
> make a switcher with 3 outs.
>
> Do you guys think this would be
> hard to make?  And would I have
> to program an eeprom or something
> to accomplish this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lava



From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Fri Mar 15 21:47:13 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:47:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
In-Reply-To: <20020315200605.GF1068@teaser.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203151545201.32699-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Andre Majorel wrote:

> On 2002-03-15 11:01 -0800, Moho Disco wrote:
> 
> > I want to make a little box with
> > a 3-way switch on it that changes
> 
> Doesn't look too hard. I guess you would need an UART and a
> microcontroller that runs a code somewhat like this one :
> 
>   int chin  = 0;
>   int chout = 1;
>   for (;;)
>   {
>     unsigned char b = getc (midi_in);
>     if ((b & 0x80) && b < 0xf0 && (b & 0x0f) == chin)
>       b = (b & 0xf0) | chout;
>     putc (b, midi_out);
>   }

  Easy for a PIC/AVR, etc.  Can use something like PIC16F628 or its AVR 
equivalent.  (Actually, it could be done in a 12C508 8-pin part if 
hardware uarts aren't desired).

Crow
/**/



From jhaible at debitel.net  Fri Mar 15 22:06:55 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:06:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Serge Tcherepnin Update
References: <B8B70018.2DB9%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1cc8c$c2024160$d478b9d9@debitel.net>

> I heard he's writing music again, and also doing some work with composer
> Arvo Part.

Wow, does this mean we're going to hear electronic stuff from Arvo P?rt?

JH.




From moho at mohodisco.com  Fri Mar 15 22:11:39 2002
From: moho at mohodisco.com (Moho Disco)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:11:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203151545201.32699-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>
Message-ID: <01f001c1cc66$02b659c0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>

Which one is simpler?


>   Easy for a PIC/AVR, etc.  Can use something like PIC16F628 or its AVR 
> equivalent.  (Actually, it could be done in a 12C508 8-pin part if 
> hardware uarts aren't desired).
> 
> Crow
> /**/
> 


From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Mar 15 21:50:28 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:50:28
Subject: [sdiy] Who was Chua and why should I care about his oscillator?
Message-ID: <20020316055009.ZBBC23097.out005.verizon.net@mail.lan>

It's a chaotic oscillator.  Capable of many strange things.

Do a google on "chua".  There will be schematics, history, 
theory, etc.

Tim Escobedo <tpe123 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Who was Chua and why should I care about his oscillator? Any examples
>out there?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
>http://sports.yahoo.com/
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From terje.winther at notam02.no  Fri Mar 15 23:15:58 2002
From: terje.winther at notam02.no (Terje Winther)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:15:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Doepfer schematics
In-Reply-To: <005301c1cc55$cb8bae60$db2ce4d9@athlon800>
Message-ID: <l03130302b8b8224b954e@[129.240.240.209]>

>    Hey there,   delicious subject talking about  Doepfer technical
>details but I was just wondering if anyone got this  service manual book
>for the A100 which doepfer seems to sell to A100  customers only....    
>greets R at F

I?m a doepfer customer. And yes, I have the service manual as well.
Anything in particular you are looking for? Most of the stuff is pretty
familiar things; moog ladder, multimode filters, standard LFOs and VCOs
etc. I wanted the service manual in case something went wrong with the
modules I have. You never know how long a company might survice (read synth
history - it pays to keep your users and service manuals).


tw.  :)




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar 16 00:06:19 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:06:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] RE: RE: RE: [sdiy] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?d=F6pfer?= touchplate
	keyboard
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9C4@stu-nt1.stucki.com>
Message-ID: <3C927E6B.9070903@addcom.de>

No micro in the Serge. just regular CMOS.

I am not convinced that the Serge is the end all be all, it is just a 
really simple and effective way to do this kind of circuit. The Buchla 
designs use WAY more parts.

IMHO he should drop the individual voltage outs and give it MIDI. Still 
have a main CV and gate out, but who really needs 25 CV outs? The pulse 
outs maight come in useful fromt ime to time. the world could use a MIDI 
touchplate keyboard.

I get the feeling that many of Doepfer's modules are not all that 
intelligently thought out. It seems to be a stress of the low coat and 
quantity of modules available. Not on how powerful each module is.

the good news is that, even if it is the SAME circuit as a Serge, now 
the $1500 Serge TKB is no longer then only one on the market. I would 
guess that the inclusion of a sequencer function in the Doepfer one is 
only there to make his appear to be on the same level.

mark

Rhen, Kris wrote:

> > > So then your statement, without the schematics, is pretty
> > useless, and
> > > the only reason you'd wonder out loud such a thing is to
> > make others
> > > wonder too :-)  But again, even from the pic, anyone can
> > see there's
> > > enough functionality difference that surely the same
> > schematic isn't
> > > under there...
> > >
> > http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Serge/schematics/
> >
> > add another pair of 4051's with their enable pins toggled from the
> > trigger to get the individual pulse outs. The individual CV outs come
> > from before the summing section. for each row of pots.
> >
> > If he does add MIDI, which has not been done yet, then there will be
> > something new on the table.
>
> I believe there's lots of digital under the Doepfer overall from what 
> they've said.  Does the serge have a Microp (I can't tell)?
>
> Besides, how many manufacturers really bring 'new things' to the 
> table?  How many have made their OWN version of a VA?  How many made 
> their OWN version of a MIDI controller, or even a keyboard for an 
> analog?  Just because it fills a similar need doesn't make it bad all 
> of a sudden - otherwise all the Modular manufacturers here should pack 
> up and go home because their mixers use opamps...
>
> KRIS
>




From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Sat Mar 16 00:19:19 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:19:19 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] doepfer modules
Message-ID: <200203152319.g2FNJJM08024@dm.hotkey.net.au>

>In fairness, even if they did grab the idea from serge, you can hardly call
>a boolean module a unique piece of inspiration.
>
>Daryl

With which I agree totally. I've developed several modules based entirely on
my own ideas, only to find that some manufacturer or another has a very
similar if not identical module with some obscure name that prevented me
from realizing what it was.

How many people complain when another moog filter appears? No one.

Ken

_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar 16 04:14:34 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 04:14:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] doepfer modules
References: <200203152319.g2FNJJM08024@dm.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C92B89A.2030607@addcom.de>

I grumble to myself. ;)

Ken Stone wrote:

>
>
>How many people complain when another moog filter appears? No one.
>
>




From synth1 at airmail.net  Sat Mar 16 05:01:57 2002
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:01:57 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] CEM3330s
Message-ID: <001b01c1cc9f$51449500$71765140@speakeasy.net>

If you have any you want to sell/trade, please email me ASAP.

Paul Schreiber




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sat Mar 16 05:32:23 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:32:23 EST
Subject: [sdiy] doepfer modules
Message-ID: <150.a88f044.29c424d7@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/15/02 7:17:02 PM, a0284520 at addcom.de writes:

<< I grumble to myself. ;) >>

...and then you get out the soldering iron and build one.


From tpe123 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 05:38:13 2002
From: tpe123 at yahoo.com (Tim Escobedo)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:38:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Who was Chua and why should I care about his oscillator?
Message-ID: <20020316043813.41644.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com>

Who was Chua and why should I care about his oscillator? Any examples
out there?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/


From music.maker at gte.net  Sat Mar 16 11:45:46 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:45:46
Subject: [sdiy] Monolithic Chua Oscillator
Message-ID: <20020316194557.LXWR1518.out012.verizon.net@mail.lan>

http://www.imse.cnm.csic.es/Chipcat/mandel/chip-1.htm

I didn't see a part number...  This is a catalogue, and
this thing looks really interesting.  Anybody know more?

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From krhen at stucki.com  Sat Mar 16 13:30:34 2002
From: krhen at stucki.com (Rhen, Kris)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:30:34 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_=5Bsdiy=5D_RE=3A_RE=3A_RE=3A_=5Bsdiy=5D_d?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F6pfer_touchplate__keyboard?=
Message-ID: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9C9@stu-nt1.stucki.com>

> IMHO he should drop the individual voltage outs and give it MIDI. Still 
> have a main CV and gate out, but who really needs 25 CV outs? The pulse 
> outs maight come in useful fromt ime to time. the world could use a MIDI
> touchplate keyboard.
----------------------------------
Maybe as an option but many modular users don't want midi (myself included).
I'd prefer all the outs.  Even two rows of CV.  If it just did MIDI I'd be
uninterested basically.
----------------------------------
> I get the feeling that many of Doepfer's modules are not all that 
> intelligently thought out. It seems to be a stress of the low coat and 
> quantity of modules available. Not on how powerful each module is.
----------------------------------
Actually the design is partially the result of LOTS of back and forth on the
A100 list with prospective customers etc.  There were so many polls about
what you'd like to see on the touch kb that I lost track.
KRIS
----------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020316/58074857/attachment.htm>

From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat Mar 16 15:10:07 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:10:07 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] RE: [sdiy] RE: RE: RE: [sdiy] döpfer touchplate  keyboard
References: <30D5EE1B68DFD21193330008C7095A3191A9C9@stu-nt1.stucki.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1ccf4$48412540$6772b9d9@debitel.net>

> Actually the design is partially the result of LOTS of back and forth on
the
> A100 list with prospective customers etc.  There were so many polls about
> what you'd like to see on the touch kb that I lost track.
> KRIS

Allright, so let's *please* keep discussions for improovments of Mr. D's
products on the A100 list.

If nothing else, this is off-topic on synth-diy (at least as long as D
doesn't
offer kits again).

JH.




From intent at club-internet.fr  Sat Mar 16 16:11:28 2002
From: intent at club-internet.fr (Linium)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:11:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
In-Reply-To: <01f001c1cc66$02b659c0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203151545201.32699-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net> <01f001c1cc66$02b659c0$9454100a@cnet.cnwk>
Message-ID: <20020316150433.DE833173F@relay-1v.club-internet.fr>

I think they should be the same concerning easyness. Both family have lot of 
asm examples on the net and tutorials. You have to learn some assembly 
commands, install some softwares, and read the specs of the MCU.

Personnally i choosed an AVR because I found a schemo to build a programmer 
board for 15$. 
The Avr can be programmed on circuit if you manage to put some jumpers and a 
socket for the programmer. 

Linium

Le Vendredi 15 Mars 2002 22:11, vous avez ?crit :
> Which one is simpler?
>
> >   Easy for a PIC/AVR, etc.  Can use something like PIC16F628 or its AVR
> > equivalent.  (Actually, it could be done in a 12C508 8-pin part if
> > hardware uarts aren't desired).
> >
> > Crow
> > /**/


From n0nspaz at mindspring.com  Sat Mar 16 17:58:29 2002
From: n0nspaz at mindspring.com (markus)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:58:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] transistor subs
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020316115738.00bf2650@pop.mindspring.com>

can anyone recommend a sub for a 2n5952 (for a phaser circuit) ?
thanks
mark



From scott at tellun.com  Sat Mar 16 18:49:01 2002
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:49:01 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203151545201.32699-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203151545201.32699-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>
Message-ID: <p05100300b8b9354334c7@[192.168.1.101]>

For a different take on this, there's a midi channelizer circuit in 
the May 1989 issue of Electronic Musician that doesn't use a 
microcontroller, just a UART and some 4000 and 7400 series chips.


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Sat Mar 16 19:10:36 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:10:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Euro card rack
In-Reply-To: <200203132208.g2DM8pZ19188@yakko.hotkey.net.au>; from sasami@hotkey.net.au on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 09:08:52AM +1100
References: <200203132208.g2DM8pZ19188@yakko.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020316191036.A1410@teaser.fr>

On 2002-03-14 09:08 +1100, Ken Stone wrote:

> Does anyone know what 3 unit high Euro card rack cases are worth?
> Specifically the open frame types.

>From Radiospares' catalogue :

- APW KM6-II standard			220 mm	60.31 EUR
- APW KM6-II universal			240 mm	64.16 EUR
- APW KM6-EC				240 mm	42.42 EUR
- Schroff BGT Europac PRO F84TE		235 mm	40.86 EUR

Those prices are without VAT. RS tend to be expensive.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Sat Mar 16 21:19:40 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:19:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
In-Reply-To: <20020316150433.DE833173F@relay-1v.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161450540.15570-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Linium wrote:

> Personnally i choosed an AVR because I found a schemo to build a
> programmer board for 15$.  The Avr can be programmed on circuit if you
> manage to put some jumpers and a socket for the programmer.

  Yeah, same with PICs.  I use the ISP (In-circuit Serial Program) mode
all the time.  Certain parts I can instruct to flash-update through
on-chip hardware or software UART, too.  Customers love this as they can
download a firmware update remotely.  Not an issue here, though.

Crow
/**/



From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Sat Mar 16 22:32:00 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:32:00 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Euro card rack
Message-ID: <200203162132.g2GLW0610912@yakko.hotkey.net.au>


Thanks to all who took time to find out the Euro rack pricing for me. It
seems I've done pretty well - I've picked up some brand new (surplus) for
roughly AU$6 each, which seems to be pretty amazing.

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Sun Mar 17 01:33:14 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:33:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Hot Foil Success
References: <200203162132.g2GLW0610912@yakko.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <000601c1cd4b$54754f60$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>

Check this out:

www.angelfire.com/il/cyborgzerotech

fun with hot foil. ;)

Rob




From bigfootstudios at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 17 02:58:41 2002
From: bigfootstudios at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:58:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] 1458 sub for 4558?
In-Reply-To: <000601c1cd4b$54754f60$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020317015841.37293.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm repairing a JP-8 and need to replace a 4558 op-amp... Would a 1458 be an OK
sub? I know the 4558 has a little bit better slew rate (both are pretty slow
though) but the op-amp I'm replacing is in the +/- 13VDC supply not the audio
path... The NTE replacement (NTE778A) seems to have the same specs as the
1458...

Thanx,
Doug

=====
BigFoot Recording Studios
40-Track Facility
Fremont, CA
www.bigfootstudio.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/


From djmarmalade at planetp.org  Sun Mar 17 13:44:18 2002
From: djmarmalade at planetp.org (DJ Marmalade)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:44:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203151545201.32699-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>
Message-ID: <B8BA4E31.60E%djmarmalade@planetp.org>

on 3/15/02 9:47 PM, The Old Crow at oldcrow at oldcrows.net wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Andre Majorel wrote:
> 
>> On 2002-03-15 11:01 -0800, Moho Disco wrote:
>> 
>>> I want to make a little box with
>>> a 3-way switch on it that changes
>> 
>> Doesn't look too hard. I guess you would need an UART and a
>> microcontroller that runs a code somewhat like this one :
>> 
>> int chin  = 0;
>> int chout = 1;
>> for (;;)
>> {
>> unsigned char b = getc (midi_in);
>> if ((b & 0x80) && b < 0xf0 && (b & 0x0f) == chin)
>> b = (b & 0xf0) | chout;
>> putc (b, midi_out);
>> }
> 
> Easy for a PIC/AVR, etc.  Can use something like PIC16F628 or its AVR
> equivalent.  (Actually, it could be done in a 12C508 8-pin part if
> hardware uarts aren't desired).
> 
> Crow
> /**/

Is anyone aware of a simple midi library with source available for the PIC ?
It'd be fun to just start writing code without having to deal with debugging
the midi hw/sw.

Thanks
Daryl
  



From blommoo at wanadoo.nl  Sun Mar 17 16:35:59 2002
From: blommoo at wanadoo.nl (Wout Blommers)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:35:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] theremin discucion
References: <01c1c287$80b05da0$LocalHost@wefwf>
Message-ID: <3C94B7DF.B3648BD3@wanadoo.nl>

criss m wrote:
> The tube theremin are famous for been more sensitive that the
> trancistoriced ones ,rigth, what about the sound? is the tube
> theremin special?

Constructed right, both sound the same.

> should we let this instrument for clara rockmore the crazy wife
> of mr theremin???

???
To my knowledge they weren't married...

> im sure that the sound of theremin , can be ezly reproduce from
> a synth... rigth , so why is it so special?
> i loooked at the draws of mr moog, fdor the etherwave and you
> can see the vco vca etc and some of the modules you'll see in a
> basic  analog synth.... so.....

Just had a nice chat about that in Frankfurt with somebody
named Grand Poobah.
 
> anyway i realy love the theremin , its a great instrument....

That's an opinion.

Wout


From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Mar 17 16:59:48 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:59:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] theremin discucion
References: <01c1c287$80b05da0$LocalHost@wefwf>
Message-ID: <3C94BD74.FD4093F6@silcom.com>



criss m wrote:

>    hi all..
> there are some questions ive always had about theremins. and i would
> like to share with you :)
>
> The tube theremin are famous for been more sensitive that the
> trancistoriced ones ,rigth, what about the sound? is the tube theremin
> special?
>

    That I do not know about.  In the Therimin documentary I have, Clara
is asked about the Moog Therimin, and she called it an inferior
instrument...although, it was unclear if she was refering to the Moog
Tube or solid state Therimin.

>
> should we let this instrument for clara rockmore the crazy wife of mr
> theremin???

    I didn't think Clara was married to Leon...I could be wrong.

>
>
> im sure that the sound of theremin , can be ezly reproduce from a
> synth... rigth , so why is it so special?
> i loooked at the draws of mr moog, fdor the etherwave and you can see
> the vco vca etc and some of the modules you'll see in a basic  analog
> synth.... so.....

    You can use a synth to imitate almost anything...but only imitate.
It would be very difficult to duplicate the way the therimin is played
with a synth, unless you build a controller that operates the same.  The
Therimin does not actually have a VCO in it, it is a tuned RF oscilator,
the tuning of which is addjusted by the proximity of your body to the
antena (I am trying to keep this as simple as posible).  Therimin
himself discovered how to do this by messing with radios he was working
on.

>
>
> anyway i realy love the theremin , its a great instrument....

    And a very difficult one to play for those of us less musically
talented...but it is fun to play with.

>
>
> :)
>
>

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From bonjathon at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 17:37:42 2002
From: bonjathon at hotmail.com (Ben Monypenny)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:37:42 +0000
Subject: [sdiy]  cv to midi
Message-ID: <F94rM4mRJslXdIKgelO0000508f@hotmail.com>


Hi

Does anyone know where I might find schemos for a circuit to convert cv to 
midi cc's? (like the Doepfer A-192)

Cheers
Ben


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



From bobo at decapod.net  Sun Mar 17 19:46:27 2002
From: bobo at decapod.net (Bob Roesler)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:46:27 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Monolithic Chua Oscillator
In-Reply-To: <20020316194557.LXWR1518.out012.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <B8BA2482.B5%bobo@decapod.net>

I don't know more, but I'd like to.

the  http://www.imse.cnm.csic.es/Chipcat/mandel/chip-2.htm
and  http://www.imse.cnm.csic.es/Chipcat/mandel/chip-4.htm

look interesting, as well.

Does anyone know who either IMSE (Instituto de Microelectr?nica de Sevilla)
or CNM (Centro Nacional de Microelectr?nica ) is?

bob

> From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
> Reply-To: music.maker at gte.net
> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:45:46
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Monolithic Chua Oscillator
> 
> http://www.imse.cnm.csic.es/Chipcat/mandel/chip-1.htm
> 
> I didn't see a part number...  This is a catalogue, and
> this thing looks really interesting.  Anybody know more?
> 
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
> 
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
> 
> 



From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Mar 17 19:54:18 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:54:18 -0800
Subject: [sdiy]  cv to midi
References: <F94rM4mRJslXdIKgelO0000508f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C94E65A.53D515D6@silcom.com>

    Look here : http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com/projects/projects.html

    This was the first place I thought of.  There are others.  I beleive that
the above uses the AVR, and other people also implement using a PIC.

Ben Monypenny wrote:

> Hi
>
> Does anyone know where I might find schemos for a circuit to convert cv to
> midi cc's? (like the Doepfer A-192)
>
> Cheers
> Ben
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From polarn-p at acc.umu.se  Sun Mar 17 22:06:31 2002
From: polarn-p at acc.umu.se (Rotwang the Mad Inventor)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:06:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] E402 dual JFET?
Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20020317215752.023f1c40@mail.acc.umu.se>

Hello!

I am curious about the dual FETs E402 found in the VCOs of older minimoogs.
Are they still being manufactured? If they are; by who? If they are not; 
Who did manufacture them? Are there any datasheets somewhere?  Available 
equivalents? Single devices with similar data?

	live long and prosper

	/Patrik

__P a t r i k  E r i k s s o n_______________________________
     art - technology - music
     polarn-p at acc.umu.se
     http://www.acc.umu.se/~polarn-p/
_____________________________________________________________
  "The dark religions are departed and sweet science reigns"



From frankentron at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 22:37:11 2002
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:37:11 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OT need Japanese transistors
Message-ID: <F74OC0mWIiXN1BVlcHs0001b33e@hotmail.com>

hi all,

I am repairing my buddie's early 80s era power amp and cannot find the power 
transistors anywhere. the only place I've found that even has them listed is 
Audio Lab: http://www.datadart.com/commercesql/index.cgi
unfortunately they are discontinued and not in stock.

the part numbers are:

2SC3546
2SA1389

after searching, and searching, and searching, the best I could come up with 
is the specs for the 2SC3546. this is helpfull though because it enables me 
to find an alternate part. however, these transistors have an unusual case 
style so an alternate device may require machining the heatsink (to much 
work). any help is appreciated.

~M



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



From jorandal at vt.edu  Sun Mar 17 22:45:12 2002
From: jorandal at vt.edu (Josh Randall)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:45:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] asm-1 pots
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203171642400.17519-100000@lion.ee.vt.edu>

I have most of my asm-1 board completed and am planning on getting Xircon
pots.  How do I know what values to get for the different controlls?  Can
I get 100K linear pots for the whole thing or will each control require
different values?

Thanks for the help.

Sincerly,

Josh Randall



From matti at devo.com  Mon Mar 18 00:35:13 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:35:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] PPG
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203171827080.4064-100000@whipit.devo.com>

http://www.devo.com/~matti/wavetable/ppg/

Thank you hermann seib.


enjoy

-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From Ordeish at aol.com  Mon Mar 18 01:17:02 2002
From: Ordeish at aol.com (Ordeish at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:17:02 EST
Subject: [sdiy] sliders for fader box?
Message-ID: <14a.a988a7e.29c68bfe@aol.com>

 Anyone have any recommendations for 5k sliders for a cv-midi fader box?

thanks
edward s.


From patchell at silcom.com  Mon Mar 18 01:32:36 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:32:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] asm-1 pots
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203171642400.17519-100000@lion.ee.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3C9535A4.1C40119B@silcom.com>

    What I generally do is use pots that are 10K for supplying control
voltages, and 100K pots are for attenuators.  Judging from the schematic, you
may need a few 1M pots in there as well (for the ADSR at least)....

Josh Randall wrote:

> I have most of my asm-1 board completed and am planning on getting Xircon
> pots.  How do I know what values to get for the different controlls?  Can
> I get 100K linear pots for the whole thing or will each control require
> different values?
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Sincerly,
>
> Josh Randall

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From thescum at surfree.com  Mon Mar 18 04:22:45 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:22:45 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 909 sync problems??? (ot)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020318032245.00eeb10c@smtp.surfree.com>

>has anyone had a 909 slip out of sync??? any ideas ...feel free to contact
>me off list.

I have, but it was caused by rapidly pressing stop-continue-stop-continue
over and over.  It transmitted one too many clocks between the start & stop
messages, IIRC.

Byron Jacquot



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Mar 18 04:28:28 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:28:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] theremin discucion
References: <01c1c287$80b05da0$LocalHost@wefwf>
Message-ID: <3C955EDC.C088DC24@prodigy.net>

There is a list called "levnet" that you should join... there is a lot
of discussion and
opinion about tube vs transistor theremins from an artistic perspective.

Remember that these folks often own ORIGINAL vintage theremins... some
having belonged to famous artists in the genre. So (imho) some opinions
may be
a little non-objective...

If you join tell them that "that crazy bastard with the quantized
theremin" sent you.

I had to unsubscribe... the signal to heterodyne ratio was WAY too much
for me...
I actually started feeling my life had become unmanageable. Two days
after the unsub
my life turned the corner (up) again  ;^).    There are some nice
interesting folk there... but the tech content was near zero.   (viva
S-DIY!)

You are correct, the Etherwave has many of the same analog synth
components...
The illuminati say it does NOT sound as good as the original RCA
theremins...

I don't care... I use it to drive a synth anyway. I get any sound I want
!!!   ;^)

H^) harry

criss m wrote:

>  hi all..there are some questions ive always had about theremins. and
> i would like to share with you :) The tube theremin are famous for
> been more sensitive that the trancistoriced ones ,rigth, what about
> the sound? is the tube theremin special? should we let this instrument
> for clara rockmore the crazy wife of mr theremin??? im sure that the
> sound of theremin , can be ezly reproduce from a synth... rigth , so
> why is it so special?i loooked at the draws of mr moog, fdor the
> etherwave and you can see the vco vca etc and some of the modules
> you'll see in a basic  analog synth.... so..... anyway i realy love
> the theremin , its a great instrument.... :)

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From thescum at surfree.com  Mon Mar 18 04:32:02 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:32:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] sliders for fader box?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020318033202.00ee1c18@smtp.surfree.com>

> Anyone have any recommendations for 5k sliders for a cv-midi fader box?

The Alps or Panasonic "Rail-type" 100mm faders are pretty nice, much better
than the cheap pressed sheetmetal PCB-mount ones.  Digikey had the Panasonic
ones in various values & tapers for  around $30.

Alternately, check Ebay for old Penny & Giles faders.  They're the "Real
thing" when it comes to nice faders.

Byron Jacquot



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Mar 18 04:32:50 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:32:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] theremin discucion
References: <01c1c287$80b05da0$LocalHost@wefwf> <3C94B7DF.B3648BD3@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <3C955FE2.321FFDC1@prodigy.net>

Wout Blommers wrote:

<snipped>

> > should we let this instrument for clara rockmore the crazy wife
> > of mr theremin???
>
> ???
> To my knowledge they weren't married...

Correct...  Clara Rockmore was a real cutie in her day and I bet Lev had

eyes on her, at least...  ;^)

>
>
> > anyway i realy love the theremin , its a great instrument....
>
> That's an opinion.

OK... its a great instrument if we chop off all your fingers....
(you can still play....)

That's not an opinion ;^P

H^) harry



From jlarryh at iquest.net  Mon Mar 18 04:50:20 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:50:20 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] OT:  Roto-phase converters
Message-ID: <005201c1ce30$075ef420$a12f2bd1@oemcomputer>

Knowing this list is full of several people with many years of varied
experience, I shall ask if anyone has any experience with roto-phase
converters.  I am well versed in most aspects of three phase power.  But, I
have never had any connection with one of these.  So far, all the web sites
give overly simplified "how it works" descriptions with lots of "where to
buy" information.  I'm still looking.  So, please contact me privately if
you know anything about how these connect and work.

Thanks,
Larry Hendry




From mclilith at ezwv.com  Mon Mar 18 04:52:29 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:52:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314231136.28848.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020317224350.0094b9e0@mail.ezwv.com>

At 06:11 PM 3/14/02 , thescum at surfree.com wrote:

>I hate to say it, but Fatar are one of the few companies making keyboards 
>today.  Off the top of my head, Yamaha also makes their own.  My 
>understanding is that the two of them own the patents needed to make
keyboards.

I hope that you aren't claiming that only two companies in the world
manufacture all the musical keyboards, because that is not the case. I'm
curious as to what you meant exactly.

Later,
Glen


From gatrall at pacbell.net  Mon Mar 18 05:19:18 2002
From: gatrall at pacbell.net (Simon Gatrall)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:19:18 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard questions
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020317224350.0094b9e0@mail.ezwv.com>
References: <4.1.20020317224350.0094b9e0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <v04220804b8bb1a37f28f@[64.172.21.178]>

>At 06:11 PM 3/14/02 , thescum at surfree.com wrote:
>
>  >I hate to say it, but Fatar are one of the few companies making keyboards
>  >today.  Off the top of my head, Yamaha also makes their own.  My
>  >understanding is that the two of them own the patents needed to make
>keyboards.
>
>I hope that you aren't claiming that only two companies in the world
>manufacture all the musical keyboards, because that is not the case. I'm
>curious as to what you meant exactly.

He's refering to the keyboard mechanisms themselves, not the keybaord 
and the music making circuitry.  Indeed, Fatar makes a huge number of 
the keyboards in the world.  Just like Alps, Keytronic and a few 
other companies control the QWERTY keyboard business.

Fatar is an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) for the music 
industry in addition to making organs.

-s!mon


From musetrap at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 18 05:32:43 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:32:43 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 1458 sub for 4558?
References: <20020317015841.37293.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C956DEB.FFDBCBD9@earthlink.net>

Dear Doug,
    You could use just about any medium slew rate op amp as a replacement for a
4558--TL072/82, LF353, 5532, etc.  If it's just a matter of using what you have on
hand, the 1458 will work fine.  But the 4558 is not a rare chip--Mouser has them
for $0.38 each.  An exact replacement will at least give you predictable results.

Regards,
Joe Kramer



Terrebonne wrote:

> I'm repairing a JP-8 and need to replace a 4558 op-amp... Would a 1458 be an OK
> sub? I know the 4558 has a little bit better slew rate (both are pretty slow
> though) but the op-amp I'm replacing is in the +/- 13VDC supply not the audio
> path... The NTE replacement (NTE778A) seems to have the same specs as the
> 1458...
>
> Thanx,
> Doug
>
> =====
> BigFoot Recording Studios
> 40-Track Facility
> Fremont, CA
> www.bigfootstudio.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Mar 18 05:42:26 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:42:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] theremin questions
References: <005201c1ce30$075ef420$a12f2bd1@oemcomputer> <000701be44f3$ff9eee20$4b3207d0@rcsnyder>
Message-ID: <3C957031.BD239BC2@prodigy.net>

You cannot put anything through the theremin. You could convert the Theremin
to control voltage (for instance the PV-1 pitch to voltage converter, shameless
plug)... and then use the control voltage to the keyboard, or to external
effects.

You CAN plug the Theremin into any guitar effects you like... you might need to
reduce the volume a little but two resistors built into a 1/4" patch cord can
take
care of that easy.

My etherwave has an octave divider built in... it spoils a little of the classic
tone
circuit but lets you do a pack o'Harleys very easily...

H^) harry

"R. Charles Snyder" wrote:

> I was wandering if I could put an etherwave theremin through various pedals,
> and/or put a keyboard (such as a DX7) through the theremin to tweak the
> sound of my keyboard. Also if I put the theremin through a pedal (preferably
> a series of guitar pedals) would it be over modulated and make a god awful
> sound.

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Mar 18 06:24:04 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:24:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard questions
References: <4.1.20020317224350.0094b9e0@mail.ezwv.com> <v04220804b8bb1a37f28f@[64.172.21.178]>
Message-ID: <000901c1ce3d$1ee474a0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Roland, Kawai, Ensonic (poly after-touch) and others also make their own
keyboards.
But indeed most American and European companies seem to buy from Fatar.
Just got their catalog, lots of different models.
The majority  seems intended for "classical" electronic instruments.

Later
Theo


From: Simon Gatrall <gatrall at pacbell.net>

> >At 06:11 PM 3/14/02 , thescum at surfree.com wrote:
> >
> >  >I hate to say it, but Fatar are one of the few companies making
keyboards
> >  >today.  Off the top of my head, Yamaha also makes their own.  My
> >  >understanding is that the two of them own the patents needed to make
> >keyboards.
> >
> >I hope that you aren't claiming that only two companies in the world
> >manufacture all the musical keyboards, because that is not the case. I'm
> >curious as to what you meant exactly.
>
> He's refering to the keyboard mechanisms themselves, not the keybaord
> and the music making circuitry.  Indeed, Fatar makes a huge number of
> the keyboards in the world.  Just like Alps, Keytronic and a few
> other companies control the QWERTY keyboard business.
>
> Fatar is an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) for the music
> industry in addition to making organs.
>
> -s!mon



From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Mar 18 06:35:21 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:35:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard questions(2)
References: <3C911402.B41F5B1@swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <001801c1ce3e$b2320000$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

If more than 13 pedals is also ok you might try a local pipe-organ builder
(yep those do exist).
I bought a 29 pedal board that way, a "second hand" but nice hardwood
working for only 120 euro.

Theo
(5 in the morning and just arriving from a whole week messe)


From: GONZOS DOOM <monsoon at swissonline.ch>

> good evening everybody,
>
> just back from musikmesse-frankfurt. (fast driving germany, fucking
> hell)
> nothing realy new things there...
>
> to my question i`m looking round for some keyboards,
>
> -5okt /61keys and  footpedalboard13keys
>
> the only manufacter i know is fatar/italy.
>
> whats the quality diferences between tp/8+tp/9
> the type tp/7 i have in my modular system and it's not realy my taste
> (cheap plastic)
>
> do anybody have some expirience with keydords???.
> are there other manufacturer???
>
> thank you
> daniel
>
>
>



From sbernardi at attbi.com  Mon Mar 18 06:38:22 2002
From: sbernardi at attbi.com (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:38:22 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] asm-1 pots
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203171642400.17519-100000@lion.ee.vt.edu> <3C9535A4.1C40119B@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3C957D4E.59DCE642@attbi.com>

You probably don't want to use pots as high as 100K due to loading effects. Most
synth inputs have about 100K of input impedence, so using a 100K pot would "warp"
the response. You generally want to use a pot a factor of 10 or more lower (10K)
to avoid loading. See http://home.attbi.com/~sbernardi/elec/og2/partsub_pots.html
for my article on pot substitution.
The other consideration is the taper of the pot. Use log pots when you are
controlling amplitude - such as attenuators on mixers, or level controls (like on
the output of an LFO), or in the feedback loop of an opamp to set gain. Linear
taper for setting control voltage levels - like initial frequency controls on
exponential VCO's.
For an ADSR you would want log pots for the Attack, Decay, and Release controls
(say 1Meg), and a linear pot for the sustain.

On the ASM-1 specifically, here is what I'd do (although I haven't built an
ASM-1. Somebody correct me if you have better ideas):
VCO:
Hook up a 10K linear pot to CV5 input for coarse freq. Run the two ends of the
pot to +/-15v. Measure the voltages on the wiper that give you the frequency
range you want. Calculate series resistors (see article above) to give those end
voltages.
Change R6 to 1M and hook up a 10K pot with the ends from ground to +15v for a
Fine freq control.
VCF:
Hook up a 10K linear pot to CV4 for Frequency control, measure end voltages for
acceptable range, and calculate series resistors to give those voltages.
For the Q, you can do the trick I outline in my article about building a reverse
log taper pot from a dual linear pot.   The "top" of the dual pot would go to the
point labeled Qout, and the wiper to the point labeled Qpot.  A 100K or 50K dual
linear pot will do.
LFO:
Use a 100K log pot for P1 for the frequency control.
ADSR:
Use 1M log pots for Attack, Decay, Release.  The 100K's should be linear.


patchell wrote:

>     What I generally do is use pots that are 10K for supplying control
> voltages, and 100K pots are for attenuators.  Judging from the schematic, you
> may need a few 1M pots in there as well (for the ADSR at least)....
>
> Josh Randall wrote:
>
> > I have most of my asm-1 board completed and am planning on getting Xircon
> > pots.  How do I know what values to get for the different controlls?  Can
> > I get 100K linear pots for the whole thing or will each control require
> > different values?
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> > Sincerly,
> >
> > Josh Randall
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at attbi.com




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Mon Mar 18 07:06:03 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:06:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] asm-1 pots
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203171642400.17519-100000@lion.ee.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3C9583CB.7090005@addcom.de>

Josh,

be careful. if you get 100k linear for everything, your portamento anf 
LFO won't go to very long times and your envelope time controls will 
only have about 10% usable range.

You need, I think 1M pots for the portamento and LFO.
Get log pots for the envelope A, D and R controls.  Otherwise 100k 
linear should be ok.

mark verbos

Josh Randall wrote:

>I have most of my asm-1 board completed and am planning on getting Xircon
>pots.  How do I know what values to get for the different controlls?  Can
>I get 100K linear pots for the whole thing or will each control require
>different values?
>
>Thanks for the help.
>
>Sincerly,
>
>Josh Randall
>
>




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Mar 18 07:08:45 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:08:45 EST
Subject: [sdiy] OT:  Roto-phase converters
Message-ID: <16.1be49dfd.29c6de6d@aol.com>

cc it to me too...I'm interested in knowing more about how these work (I get 
the basics, but the finer points, efficiencies etc...)...just in case I find 
myself a good deal on a medical laser one of these days.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020318/57d24b6d/attachment.htm>

From a0284520 at addcom.de  Mon Mar 18 07:09:20 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:09:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] asm-1 pots
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203171642400.17519-100000@lion.ee.vt.edu> <3C9535A4.1C40119B@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3C958490.5010506@addcom.de>

any good reason to not use 100k for supplying CV's? Just curious.

mark

patchell wrote:

>    What I generally do is use pots that are 10K for supplying control
>voltages, and 100K pots are for attenuators.  Judging from the schematic, you
>may need a few 1M pots in there as well (for the ADSR at least)....
>
>Josh Randall wrote:
>
>>I have most of my asm-1 board completed and am planning on getting Xircon
>>pots.  How do I know what values to get for the different controlls?  Can
>>I get 100K linear pots for the whole thing or will each control require
>>different values?
>>
>>Thanks for the help.
>>
>>Sincerly,
>>
>>Josh Randall
>>
>
>--
> -Jim
>------------------------------------------------
>* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
>*-----------------------------------------------
>*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
>* -Yogi Yorgensen
>------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

-- 
--
mark verbos

"if you want something done right, build it yourself." 

www.simple-answer.com

watch out for...
on my label SIMPLE ANSWER "Form is Emptiness" Simple Answer 006 out now, distributed by Integrale, UK





From deknow at deknow.com  Mon Mar 18 07:50:43 2002
From: deknow at deknow.com (deknow)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:50:43 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 909 sync problems??? (ot)
References: <F94rM4mRJslXdIKgelO0000508f@hotmail.com> <3C94E65A.53D515D6@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1ce49$3abd3f20$a5061342@waldo>

hey all,

has anyone had a 909 slip out of sync??? any ideas ...feel free to contact
me off list.

deknow



From cj3000 at gmx.de  Mon Mar 18 08:55:40 2002
From: cj3000 at gmx.de (cj3000 at gmx.de)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:55:40 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [sdiy] UPC566H3
Message-ID: <29685.1016438140@www31.gmx.net>

hello all

does anybody know what i can do with a UPC566H3.

or does anyone have a datasheet or pinout?

thanks chriss

-- 
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net



From cj3000 at gmx.de  Mon Mar 18 08:55:43 2002
From: cj3000 at gmx.de (cj3000 at gmx.de)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:55:43 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [sdiy] UPC566H3
Message-ID: <29801.1016438143@www31.gmx.net>

hello all

does anybody know what i can do with a UPC566H3.

or does anyone have a datasheet or pinout?

thanks chriss

-- 
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net



From Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com  Mon Mar 18 09:11:49 2002
From: Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com (Christian.Bergmiller at daimlerchrysler.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:11:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] fun with the xr2206
Message-ID: <0057440008889304000002L442*@MHS>

Hello!

Last week a musician who is a friend of mine asked me to add a "zapp" sound to 
my 808 clone (which is still waiting for a frontpanel)
What he wanted is done by sweeping a sinus tone from very high to very low 
really fast :-)

I tried around some design ideas and finally did this :

http://www.s.netic.de/cbmail/zapp.jpg

i think it's a real simple circuit for this kind of sound (of course you can do 
this sound with your modular too - my 808 just had some spare space inside)
Perhaps you miss a VCA in the schematic : the XR2206 idles at ca. 1 Hz - the 
(second order) highpass filter cuts this to a few milivolts.
A bit of LoFi design - i know - But it works just fine :-)

bye
Christian


From gatrall at pacbell.net  Mon Mar 18 09:35:09 2002
From: gatrall at pacbell.net (Simon Gatrall)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:35:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] UPC566H3
In-Reply-To: <29801.1016438143@www31.gmx.net>
References: <29801.1016438143@www31.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <v04220800b8bb545e2545@[64.172.21.178]>

>hello all
>
>does anybody know what i can do with a UPC566H3.
>
>or does anyone have a datasheet or pinout?

According to freetradezone.com, it is a discontinued NEC single 
(mono?) audio preamp.  It used to be that you could get old 
datasheets from this place for free, but it's now a pay service.  NEC 
itself doesn't seem to be much help.  I did notice that they use '?' 
(as in the Greek letter mu) not an upper case 'U' in their op amp 
names.

Good luck.

-s!mon


From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Mon Mar 18 09:40:48 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:40:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A685D@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

It can be done with 2 UARTs and some logic. Connect their data buses
in this way: 6MSBs direct, 2LSBs via OR-gates. The other input of the ORs
are driven by rotary encoder, or any kind of switch to give 2-bit data.
Every channel byte has MSB=1, so whenever 4 LSBs are 0s (channel 1)
and MSB=1, you drive this switch to override midi channel to wanted
number. Then add some logic depending on chosen UART type
to force 2nd UART to send a byte whenever 1st one has received one.
Motorola 6850 (?) would be best as it can be configured without
microcontroller.

hope it helps
Roman

""-----Original Message-----
""From: Moho Disco [mailto:moho at mohodisco.com]
""Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:02 PM
""To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
""Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
""
""
""I want to make a little box with
""a 3-way switch on it that changes
""incoming midi on channel 1 to 
""channels 1, 2, or 3.  I'd like to
""do it with only one MIDI in and
""one MIDI out.  I don't want to
""make a switcher with 3 outs.
""
""Do you guys think this would be
""hard to make?  And would I have
""to program an eeprom or something
""to accomplish this?
""
""Thanks,
""
""Lava
""
""
""---------------------------------------------------------
""This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
""
""Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
""oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
""


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From pgrenader at mksound.com  Mon Mar 18 09:50:15 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:50:15 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Serge Tcherepnin Update
In-Reply-To: <000601c1cc8c$c2024160$d478b9d9@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <B8BAF857.2E39%pgrenader@mksound.com>

I wondered the same thing.  Barry, my friend who met Serge in Paris last
week didn't ask. I would doubt it, Part has never gone there before and his
stuff being so choral in nature...i dunno what the hell Serge is doing with
him!  I dig Arvo though, very thoughtful composer.

on 3/15/02 2:06 PM, jhaible at jhaible at debitel.net wrote:

>> I heard he's writing music again, and also doing some work with composer
>> Arvo Part.
> 
> Wow, does this mean we're going to hear electronic stuff from Arvo P?rt?
> 
> JH.
> 
> 




From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Mar 18 09:45:27 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:45:27
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
Message-ID: <20020318174543.NPJE10148.out011.verizon.net@mail.lan>

I'm curious, why wouldn't measuring the DC across
the cap terminals tell you?

harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
>If the bias on the preamp side of the cap is higher than
>the mic bias voltage... its correct.
>
>If not it is an assembly error. Measure the DC on both sides
>with respect to ground, and decide...
>
>H^) harry
>
>
>>From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
>>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:02:21 +0100
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>out of curiousity I had a look into my cheap (about $50) stereo electret
>>condensor mic. Not much in there, two capsules with two wires each,
>>powered via 6.8k resistors from a 1.5V battery, and two 10uF 25V
>>electrolytic caps in the signal paths. But the funny thing is, minus of
>>the caps is connected to the capsule side, where the plus of the power
>>supply is connected (through the 6.8k resistor). That's backwards,
>>correct? Is there a specific reason for that, or is this an assembly error?
>>
>>Ingo
>>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Mon Mar 18 10:55:38 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:55:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] a different kind of slide
Message-ID: <3C95B99A.9020001@addcom.de>

Hi,


Normally, when the subject of slide or portamento comes up the 2 
variations on the theme that are discussed are linear and exponential 
slide. You of course have control over the speed of the slope.  Since my 
modular is of the Buchla aesthetic, I favor the linear slope variety. 
All controllers should be linear and all VCO, VCF and VCF inputs 
exponential in response to them.

The problem is that the time it takes for a slide from C1 to C2 is half 
as long as a slide from C1 to C3. That is that the length of the slide 
is dependent on the difference between the last voltage and the current 
voltage. A Roland TB-303 uses a microprocessor based sequencer that 
outputs a slide between notes that is the same length no matter how far 
it slides. For 10 years I have been interested in this type of slide, 
but have never been able to imagine a module that would obtain it.

The solution I have come up with is a hodge podge of other people's 
working designs. It uses PWM between the current voltage and a sampled 
and held version of the last voltage. The concept is taken from the 
Buchla 248 Multiple Arbitrary Function Generator. The use of this idea 
allows the use of a sequencer to blur the distinction between a 
sequencer and a multi-stage envelope, seamlessly switching between the 
two. The high frequency sawtooth oscillator is shamelessly stolen from 
Grant Richter's linear tracking generator. a comparator receives this 
and a linear ramp. The linear ramp is triggered at the beginning of each 
note that activates the PWM that creates a pseudo crossfade.

There is another comparator that is tripped by the ramp reaching it's 
destination. By patching this output back to the trigger input, an 
oscillator is created that can then be used to step along a sequencer 
that will be creating the voltages to slide between. There is an analog 
switch to enable/disable the slide function so that a row a switches on 
the sequencer can select which steps slide. There is an output of the 
linear ramp that will act as an AD envelope generator with a length the 
relates to the slide length. The ramp length is voltage controllable. 
Allowing the length of individual slide be remotely controlled as well 
as the rate of the VCO that is created when the output pulse is plugged 
to the trigger in.


So far, the circuit is untested. I have posted it here for evaluation at 
www.simple-answer.com/fixed-length-slide.gif
I invite any other ideas how to make it a simpler beast or criticisms of 
why it won't work. It is so far just a discussion piece. I know that a 
portamento built from 8 IC's is too much for some tastes, but I don't 
know any other way to accomplish the goal.


-- 
--
mark verbos

"if you want something done right, build it yourself." 




From debus at cityweb.de  Mon Mar 18 11:02:21 2002
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:02:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
Message-ID: <3C95BB2C.74F7C23@cityweb.de>

Hi,

out of curiousity I had a look into my cheap (about $50) stereo electret
condensor mic. Not much in there, two capsules with two wires each,
powered via 6.8k resistors from a 1.5V battery, and two 10uF 25V
electrolytic caps in the signal paths. But the funny thing is, minus of
the caps is connected to the capsule side, where the plus of the power
supply is connected (through the 6.8k resistor). That's backwards,
correct? Is there a specific reason for that, or is this an assembly error?

Ingo



From amajorel at teaser.fr  Mon Mar 18 11:13:20 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:13:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI Switch
In-Reply-To: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A685D@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>
References: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A685D@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>
Message-ID: <20020318101320.GA872@teaser.fr>

On 2002-03-18 09:40 +0100, Sowa Roman wrote:

> It can be done with 2 UARTs and some logic. Connect their data buses
> in this way: 6MSBs direct, 2LSBs via OR-gates. The other input of the ORs
> are driven by rotary encoder, or any kind of switch to give 2-bit data.
> Every channel byte has MSB=1, so whenever 4 LSBs are 0s (channel 1)
> and MSB=1, you drive this switch to override midi channel to wanted
> number.

Hey, clever. But not every status byte is a channel message. You
also have to check that the top nibble is not Fh.  Perhaps a three
input nand would do ?

  b7 --------+  ___
        ___  +-|   \
  b6 --|   \   |   |--- high iff 80h <= x < F0h
  b5 --|   |o--|___/
  b4 --|___/

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
std::disclaimer ("Not speaking for my employer");


From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Mar 18 10:49:47 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:49:47
Subject: [sdiy] Midi programming
Message-ID: <20020318184956.PZIN20881.out018.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Yo,
>
>Boy! The ol' grey fox is getting an education on how
>Midi works!
>
>So like, do I have this right: a given midi thing only
>has 16 channels. A poly kbd with multiple keys down
>assigns each key to a channel? Max keys down is 16?
>Not that I have 16 fingers; just makin' sure I got it
>down.

I won't say that no synth exists that works that way, but
no, that isn't how it is supposed to work.  Rather, each
instrument (usually) is assign to a particular channel.
If the synth on a given channel is N note poly, it keeps
track of it's own playing notes internally.  Eg, a pad
synth on channel 10 receives all of it's note information
on channel 10.  You can send a note on of pitch C1 and 
a note on of pitch G1, both on channel 10, then the synth
will play that C-G interval until it receives note off 
messages for both of those pitches.  Because of this, a
single MIDI cable can carry the information for 16 different
polyphonic instruments.  The polyphony of each intrument is
limited by it's own internal logic.

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From colin at colinfraser.com  Mon Mar 18 12:01:59 2002
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:01:59 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] a different kind of slide
References: <3C95B99A.9020001@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <000e01c1ce6c$53d48130$0b30030a@scottishpower.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "mark verbos" <a0284520 at addcom.de>
To: "synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 9:55 AM
Subject: [sdiy] a different kind of slide


> Normally, when the subject of slide or portamento comes up the 2
> variations on the theme that are discussed are linear and exponential
> slide. You of course have control over the speed of the slope.  Since my
> modular is of the Buchla aesthetic, I favor the linear slope variety.
> All controllers should be linear and all VCO, VCF and VCF inputs
> exponential in response to them.

The linear/exponential slopes also differentiate constant rate/constant time
portamento.

> A Roland TB-303 uses a microprocessor based sequencer that
> outputs a slide between notes that is the same length no matter how far
> it slides. For 10 years I have been interested in this type of slide,
> but have never been able to imagine a module that would obtain it.

The 303 doesn't do anything fancy - it just uses exponential i.e. constant
time portamento.
The further from the destination the start note is, the faster the initial
rate of glide.
As the cv approaches it's destination it slows down.
The effect is that no matter how far apart your start and end points are,
the glide takes the same time.
(In theory, it never actually reaches, but in practical terms, a certain
percentage of the distance is close enough).
To create this type of glide you need a resistor and a capcitor.
Linear portamento is more complicated - you need a constant current source
to charge/discharge the cap.
The reason the 303 had constant time glide is probably because it was
cheaper.

Colin f




From sbernardi at attbi.com  Mon Mar 18 14:37:56 2002
From: sbernardi at attbi.com (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 05:37:56 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] asm-1 pots
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203171642400.17519-100000@lion.ee.vt.edu> <3C9535A4.1C40119B@silcom.com> <3C958490.5010506@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <3C95EDB4.C75A52C2@attbi.com>

Loading effects can warp the response.  Chris List has an applet that demonstrates loading effects at
http://www.mindspring.com/~clist/PotGraph.html.  100K pot with a 100K load resistance doesn't warp the
response too bad, and so may be acceptable.  10K with a 100K load resistance gives negligible warping.
You can use the warping effects on purpose, to make a lin pot behave "feel" a log pot.  For example, use
a 100K pot with a 47K load resistance (try it on Chris' applet).

mark verbos wrote:

> any good reason to not use 100k for supplying CV's? Just curious.
>
> mark
>
> patchell wrote:
>
> >    What I generally do is use pots that are 10K for supplying control
> >voltages, and 100K pots are for attenuators.  Judging from the schematic, you
> >may need a few 1M pots in there as well (for the ADSR at least)....
> >
> >Josh Randall wrote:
> >
> >>I have most of my asm-1 board completed and am planning on getting Xircon
> >>pots.  How do I know what values to get for the different controlls?  Can
> >>I get 100K linear pots for the whole thing or will each control require
> >>different values?
> >>
> >>Thanks for the help.
> >>
> >>Sincerly,
> >>
> >>Josh Randall
> >>
> >
> >--
> > -Jim
> >------------------------------------------------
> >* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> >*-----------------------------------------------
> >*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> >* -Yogi Yorgensen
> >------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> --
> mark verbos
>
> "if you want something done right, build it yourself."
>
> www.simple-answer.com
>
> watch out for...
> on my label SIMPLE ANSWER "Form is Emptiness" Simple Answer 006 out now, distributed by Integrale, UK

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at attbi.com




From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Mar 18 14:08:51 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:08:51
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
Message-ID: <20020318220914.OSGT21585.out004.verizon.net@mail.lan>

But I wonder by how much the measurement would be different.
Aren't voltmeter circuits designed to be very high impedance
specifically so that the meter's load is negligable in most
cases?

I just looked at the specs for the meter I own, a Fluke 8060a,
not that it's typical, but the manual says that for DC voltage
measurement on the 200mv and 2v ranges, the input impedance
is greater than 1,000 megohms, typically being 10,000 megohms.
For the other ranges, they state a nominal input impedance of
10 megohms.  Even 10 megohms doesn't seem like much of a load.

harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
>I suppose it would, but it would also put the meter
>impedance across the capacitor as leakage. Measuring
>both sides to ground would eliminate that possibility.
>
>H^) harry
>
>
>>From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
>>Reply-To: music.maker at gte.net
>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
>>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:45:27
>>
>>I'm curious, why wouldn't measuring the DC across
>>the cap terminals tell you?
>>
>>harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
>> >If the bias on the preamp side of the cap is higher than
>> >the mic bias voltage... its correct.
>> >
>> >If not it is an assembly error. Measure the DC on both sides
>> >with respect to ground, and decide...
>> >
>> >H^) harry
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
>> >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> >>Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
>> >>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:02:21 +0100
>> >>
>> >>Hi,
>> >>
>> >>out of curiousity I had a look into my cheap (about $50) stereo electret
>> >>condensor mic. Not much in there, two capsules with two wires each,
>> >>powered via 6.8k resistors from a 1.5V battery, and two 10uF 25V
>> >>electrolytic caps in the signal paths. But the funny thing is, minus of
>> >>the caps is connected to the capsule side, where the plus of the power
>> >>supply is connected (through the 6.8k resistor). That's backwards,
>> >>correct? Is there a specific reason for that, or is this an assembly 
>>error?
>> >>
>> >>Ingo
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>> >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>> >
>>
>>=========================================================
>>- Government: The other religion.
>>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>>- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>>
>>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>>-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
>>-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Mon Mar 18 16:39:21 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:39:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] a different kind of slide
References: <3C95B99A.9020001@addcom.de> <000e01c1ce6c$53d48130$0b30030a@scottishpower.com>
Message-ID: <3C960A29.4080807@addcom.de>

OK i guess i was wrong about that part. The 303 wasn't really the point, 
it was just a side note. I don't know where I got that from.

The point is the ability to switch in and out the slide remotly, control 
the length of a linear slide form voltage and sync the slide *length* to 
the length of a sequencer step, in order to make sequences that switch 
between stepped and slid notes and make multistage envelopes. The side 
product of this is that you can make linear ramps from one note to the 
next that are always the same length and can jump from any two notes in 
that time.

As far as I understand, an exponential slope is a curve. A linear slope 
is a straight line. Just like in envelopes. In fact the core of a 
voltage controlled envelope is a voltage controlled integrator.

mark

Colin f wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mark verbos" <a0284520 at addcom.de>
>To: "synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 9:55 AM
>Subject: [sdiy] a different kind of slide
>
>
>>Normally, when the subject of slide or portamento comes up the 2
>>variations on the theme that are discussed are linear and exponential
>>slide. You of course have control over the speed of the slope.  Since my
>>modular is of the Buchla aesthetic, I favor the linear slope variety.
>>All controllers should be linear and all VCO, VCF and VCF inputs
>>exponential in response to them.
>>
>
>The linear/exponential slopes also differentiate constant rate/constant time
>portamento.
>
>>A Roland TB-303 uses a microprocessor based sequencer that
>>outputs a slide between notes that is the same length no matter how far
>>it slides. For 10 years I have been interested in this type of slide,
>>but have never been able to imagine a module that would obtain it.
>>
>
>The 303 doesn't do anything fancy - it just uses exponential i.e. constant
>time portamento.
>The further from the destination the start note is, the faster the initial
>rate of glide.
>As the cv approaches it's destination it slows down.
>The effect is that no matter how far apart your start and end points are,
>the glide takes the same time.
>(In theory, it never actually reaches, but in practical terms, a certain
>percentage of the distance is close enough).
>To create this type of glide you need a resistor and a capcitor.
>Linear portamento is more complicated - you need a constant current source
>to charge/discharge the cap.
>The reason the 303 had constant time glide is probably because it was
>cheaper.
>
>Colin f
>
>
>




From tpaddock at seanet.com  Mon Mar 18 16:26:59 2002
From: tpaddock at seanet.com (tpaddock at seanet.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:26:59 US/Pacific
Subject: [sdiy] polarity switcher
Message-ID: <200203190026.g2J0Qxp25049@mx.seanet.com>

If I understand right, an analog multiplier 
should do it. Maybe like an AD633. 
As a bonus, it's a ring modulator. 
 - -- -  Toby Paddock

> would anyone like to recommend a variable 
> polarity-switcher circuit to add 
> to my modular? perhaps with voltage control ?
> 
> tia
> mark
> 




From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 18 18:07:55 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:07:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
Message-ID: <F71rXWq0GPlrwAnekVg000022b0@hotmail.com>

If the bias on the preamp side of the cap is higher than
the mic bias voltage... its correct.

If not it is an assembly error. Measure the DC on both sides
with respect to ground, and decide...

H^) harry


>From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:02:21 +0100
>
>Hi,
>
>out of curiousity I had a look into my cheap (about $50) stereo electret
>condensor mic. Not much in there, two capsules with two wires each,
>powered via 6.8k resistors from a 1.5V battery, and two 10uF 25V
>electrolytic caps in the signal paths. But the funny thing is, minus of
>the caps is connected to the capsule side, where the plus of the power
>supply is connected (through the 6.8k resistor). That's backwards,
>correct? Is there a specific reason for that, or is this an assembly error?
>
>Ingo
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 18 18:11:02 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:11:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] UPC566H3
Message-ID: <F50WDBsFdU2NlhhZbkZ00014c58@hotmail.com>

The little "u" would suggest
Fairchild as the originator of the design...

H^) harry


>From: Simon Gatrall <gatrall at pacbell.net>
>To: cj3000 at gmx.de
>CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] UPC566H3
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:35:09 -0800
>
>>hello all
>>
>>does anybody know what i can do with a UPC566H3.
>>
>>or does anyone have a datasheet or pinout?
>
>According to freetradezone.com, it is a discontinued NEC single (mono?) 
>audio preamp.  It used to be that you could get old datasheets from this 
>place for free, but it's now a pay service.  NEC itself doesn't seem to be 
>much help.  I did notice that they use '?' (as in the Greek letter mu) not 
>an upper case 'U' in their op amp names.
>
>Good luck.
>
>-s!mon




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Mar 18 19:08:17 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible at debitel.net)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:08:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re: [sdiy]?= Serge Tcherepnin Update
Message-ID: <20020318181101.15307.qmail@psmtp2.dnsg.net>

I had heard some of Paert's choral stuff before, and I liked it (sometimes), but
then I discovered his "Tabula Rasa" album and was completely blown away!
No choir here (no electronics either (;->) ), but piano, prepared piano, violin,
and a small chamber orchestra. In one piece, "Fratres", the pianist is Keith Jarrett,
but my absolute favorite is "Cantus (in memoriam Benjamin Britten)".
And the long title track "Tabula Rasa" with prepared piano, bells and sparse
orchestration is Ambient music par excellence. Highly recommended !

JH.


>I wondered the same thing.  Barry, my friend who met Serge in Paris last
>week didn't ask. I would doubt it, Part has never gone there before and his
>stuff being so choral in nature...i dunno what the hell Serge is doing with
>him!  I dig Arvo though, very thoughtful composer.
>
>on 3/15/02 2:06 PM, jhaible at jhaible at debitel.net wrote:
>
>> I heard he's writing music again, and also doing some work with composer
>> Arvo Part.
> 
> Wow, does this mean we're going to hear electronic stuff from Arvo P?rt?
> 
> JH.
> 
> 


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 18 19:26:20 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:26:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Midi programming
Message-ID: <20020318182620.45017.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>

Yo,

Boy! The ol' grey fox is getting an education on how
Midi works!

So like, do I have this right: a given midi thing only
has 16 channels. A poly kbd with multiple keys down
assigns each key to a channel? Max keys down is 16?
Not that I have 16 fingers; just makin' sure I got it
down.

--tr

************************************
When in doubt, branch is carry set!!
************************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/


From n0nspaz at mindspring.com  Mon Mar 18 19:55:50 2002
From: n0nspaz at mindspring.com (markus)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:55:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] polarity switcher
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020318135404.00d15460@pop.mindspring.com>

would anyone like to recommend a variable polarity-switcher circuit to add 
to my modular? perhaps with voltage control ?

tia
mark



From media.nai at rcn.com  Mon Mar 18 20:10:30 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:10:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] a different kind of slide
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1ce6c$53d48130$0b30030a@scottishpower.com>
References: <3C95B99A.9020001@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <v03130301b8bb92d6a8c6@208.58.249.177>


>> Normally, when the subject of slide or portamento comes up the 2
>> variations on the theme that are discussed are linear and exponential
>> slide. You of course have control over the speed of the slope.  Since my
>> modular is of the Buchla aesthetic, I favor the linear slope variety.
>> All controllers should be linear and all VCO, VCF and VCF inputs
>> exponential in response to them.
>
>The linear/exponential slopes also differentiate constant rate/constant
>>time portamento.
>
>> A Roland TB-303 uses a microprocessor based sequencer that
>> outputs a slide between notes that is the same length no matter how far
>> it slides. For 10 years I have been interested in this type of slide,
>> but have never been able to imagine a module that would obtain it.
>
>The 303 doesn't do anything fancy - it just uses exponential i.e. constant
>time portamento. The further from the destination the start note is, the
>>faster the initial rate of glide.

An MC-202 is an example of exponential portamento using an RC filter -- a
rheostat sets the time from 0 to 2 seconds.  The slide on the TB-303 is
altogether different. (Although you can somewhat mimic the 303 with a 202
by programming "premonition" notes.)

>As the cv approaches it's destination it slows down.
>The effect is that no matter how far apart your start and end points are,
>the glide takes the same time.

Which is not be the case with the TB-303.  On almost every other synth, if
play quickly with a long portamento you never reach the note.  This is the
case with the MC-202, but not the case with the TB-303.  On the 303, slides
always seem to arrive just a hair short of their destination regardless of
tempo.

>(In theory, it never actually reaches, but in practical terms, a certain
>percentage of the distance is close enough).

Right.

>To create this type of glide you need a resistor and a capcitor.

As you know, the 303 is a bit more complicated.  The CV is the output of a
resistor network going into an op-amp.  There are two mux switches
connected to capacitor shunted to ground.  One switch connects to the input
of the op-amp, the other connects to the output of the op-amp.  When slide
is off, only the output is connected.  Since op-amps have such a low output
impedance, there is no portamento effect.  When the slide is on, only the
input is connected.  Since the resistor network has a significantly high
output impedance, the cap charges slowly from the voltage value of the
previously held note.  However, that still is not enough of an explanation.

Now, the resistor network that generates the CV is controlled by a hex
flip-flop, and its clock input is connected to the same uP output that
controls the slide.  So something else is going on, but I haven't quite
figured out what.  Any ideas??

>Linear portamento is more complicated - you need a constant current source
>to charge/discharge the cap.

Yes, that's obviously not the case with the TB-303.

>The reason the 303 had constant time glide is probably because it was
>cheaper.

It seems everything about the 303 was because it was cheaper :)




From thescum at surfree.com  Mon Mar 18 20:14:00 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (thescum at surfree.com)
Date: 18 Mar 2002 11:14:00 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Midi programming
Message-ID: <20020318191400.8969.cpmta@c009.snv.cp.net>

> So like, do I have this right: a given midi thing only
> has 16 channels. A poly kbd with multiple keys down
> assigns each key to a channel? Max keys down is 16?
> Not that I have 16 fingers; just makin' sure I got it
> down.

You're a little sideways with that info.  Logically, a MIDI channel is an address on the network.  It doesn't directly relate to polyphony.  For a simple example, lets assume several devices in a MIDI chain:

ControllerKeyboard[n]--->DrumMachine[1]--->PianoModule[2]--->Monosynth[3]

The number in brackets is the device's assigned MIDI channel.  The controller gets n because we can change it to control the different machines...channel 1 plays drums, channel 2 piano, channel 3 gets the synth.  We're merely telling the controller to assign that destination address to the messages it sends.  When we pound the keys, all of the notes will have the same channel.  With this sort of setup, you could have up to 16 different instruments, each with their own address in the network.  If we added a 17th instrument, it would have to duplicate an existing address, and the 2 instruments would then play in unison.

While we're set on an address, we can hold as many keys as we care to, and they'll all get the same channel number; each will contain the value of the key that's been pressed, and how hard we've pressed it.  MIDI allows a max of 127 keys per channel.

It's up to the downstream units to sort out what those concurrent notes really mean.  The piano module might be able to play all 127 at once, but the monosynth might chose to play the highest or lowest or oldest or newest note, and ignore all the others, because it simply lacks the hardware to deal with any more notes.

The fun stuff begins when one device can transmit on multiple channels at once.  For instance, splitting the keyboard to control the monosynth from below C4 (those keys send on channel 3), and the piano from above(those keys send channel 2)...or using a computer sequencer that can handle all 16 channels at once.

It's very common these days for synths to also be multitimbral, where within a single unit, you can assign different instruments to the different channels.  There are a variety of schemes to try and arbitrate the note-playing resources between the many channels...they'll often try to share.

Byron Jacquot




From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 18 22:01:25 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:01:25 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] a different kind of slide
References: <3C95B99A.9020001@addcom.de> <v03130301b8bb92d6a8c6@208.58.249.177>
Message-ID: <003201c1cec0$56fdc980$a7d6883e@oemcomputer>

>On the 303, slides always seem to arrive just a hair short of their
destination regardless of
tempo.

The time constant of the TB303's slide is fixed and constant. It makes
no difference with the speed of the sequencer. There is no premonition,
no clever circuitry, its a RC filter, thats all. There is a switch
system by which the glide is turned on and off, but this does not affect
the time to glide if it is enabled at all.

Colin> To create this type of glide you need a resistor and a capcitor.

Yes. Although, you may will want to follow it with a op-amp buffer of
some sort.

>As you know, the 303 is a bit more complicated.

No its glide circuit is simple.

>The CV is the output of a resistor network going into an op-amp.

Yes, but the output resistance of the DAC is constant irrespective of
note played. The CMOS gate that drives the resistor array is a
symmetrical output device and has more or less similar output
characteristics at high and low states.

What IS different about the TB303's glide implementation is that the
glide is always enabled for a brief moment before every note whether
glide is programmed or not. Charge injection spikes into the timing
capacitor may produce a slight blip in the VCO's pitch, as well as the
fact that the CV is lagged slightly on every new gate. This may or not
be audible.

Regards,

Tony Allgood                       Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Sound Systems                     www.oakleysound.com
Modular projects            www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 18 22:44:27 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:44:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
Message-ID: <F43XUIEAOeIiGXix4A200003ce3@hotmail.com>

I suppose it would, but it would also put the meter
impedance across the capacitor as leakage. Measuring
both sides to ground would eliminate that possibility.

H^) harry


>From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
>Reply-To: music.maker at gte.net
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:45:27
>
>I'm curious, why wouldn't measuring the DC across
>the cap terminals tell you?
>
>harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
> >If the bias on the preamp side of the cap is higher than
> >the mic bias voltage... its correct.
> >
> >If not it is an assembly error. Measure the DC on both sides
> >with respect to ground, and decide...
> >
> >H^) harry
> >
> >
> >>From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
> >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
> >>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:02:21 +0100
> >>
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>out of curiousity I had a look into my cheap (about $50) stereo electret
> >>condensor mic. Not much in there, two capsules with two wires each,
> >>powered via 6.8k resistors from a 1.5V battery, and two 10uF 25V
> >>electrolytic caps in the signal paths. But the funny thing is, minus of
> >>the caps is connected to the capsule side, where the plus of the power
> >>supply is connected (through the 6.8k resistor). That's backwards,
> >>correct? Is there a specific reason for that, or is this an assembly 
>error?
> >>
> >>Ingo
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
>
>=========================================================
>- Government: The other religion.
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
>-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 18 23:59:31 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:59:31 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
Message-ID: <F40rjbudzxxfYXFrwiZ0001569f@hotmail.com>

How different depends on the meter.. The 8060a is a
pretty NICE meter, and a lot of people have much less...

We wish the voltmeter was infinite in impedance... but
it is not. Even a 10 meg load is a lot in some cases. The
impedance of the microphone side will depend a lot on the
pullup resistor value.

I guess its preference... I'd rather make that measurement to
ground.

H^) harry


>From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
>Reply-To: music.maker at gte.net
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:08:51
>
>But I wonder by how much the measurement would be different.
>Aren't voltmeter circuits designed to be very high impedance
>specifically so that the meter's load is negligable in most
>cases?
>
>I just looked at the specs for the meter I own, a Fluke 8060a,
>not that it's typical, but the manual says that for DC voltage
>measurement on the 200mv and 2v ranges, the input impedance
>is greater than 1,000 megohms, typically being 10,000 megohms.
>For the other ranges, they state a nominal input impedance of
>10 megohms.  Even 10 megohms doesn't seem like much of a load.
>
>harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
> >I suppose it would, but it would also put the meter
> >impedance across the capacitor as leakage. Measuring
> >both sides to ground would eliminate that possibility.
> >
> >H^) harry
> >
> >
> >>From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
> >>Reply-To: music.maker at gte.net
> >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>Subject: Re: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
> >>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:45:27
> >>
> >>I'm curious, why wouldn't measuring the DC across
> >>the cap terminals tell you?
> >>
> >>harrybissell at prodigy.net wrote:
> >> >If the bias on the preamp side of the cap is higher than
> >> >the mic bias voltage... its correct.
> >> >
> >> >If not it is an assembly error. Measure the DC on both sides
> >> >with respect to ground, and decide...
> >> >
> >> >H^) harry
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
> >> >>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> >>Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
> >> >>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:02:21 +0100
> >> >>
> >> >>Hi,
> >> >>
> >> >>out of curiousity I had a look into my cheap (about $50) stereo 
>electret
> >> >>condensor mic. Not much in there, two capsules with two wires each,
> >> >>powered via 6.8k resistors from a 1.5V battery, and two 10uF 25V
> >> >>electrolytic caps in the signal paths. But the funny thing is, minus 
>of
> >> >>the caps is connected to the capsule side, where the plus of the 
>power
> >> >>supply is connected (through the 6.8k resistor). That's backwards,
> >> >>correct? Is there a specific reason for that, or is this an assembly
> >>error?
> >> >>
> >> >>Ingo
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >_________________________________________________________________
> >> >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> >> >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >> >
> >>
> >>=========================================================
> >>- Government: The other religion.
> >>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> >>- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
> >>
> >>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> >>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> >>-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> >>-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >
>
>=========================================================
>- Government: The other religion.
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
>-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From jlarryh at iquest.net  Tue Mar 19 01:32:07 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:32:07 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
References: <F40rjbudzxxfYXFrwiZ0001569f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1cedd$80c3e2a0$bd302bd1@oemcomputer>

That's interesting Harry.  Conceptionally (is that a word), that would have
never crossed my mind.  I love this list.  The diversity of people here
makes it a real learning experience.  Of course, since I have met Harry and
know he has a good sense of humor I will say he could me more diverse than
average. <g>
Larry H

----- Original Message -----
From: Happy Harry <paia2720 at hotmail.com>
I guess its preference... I'd rather make that
measurement to ground.
H^) harry





From media.nai at rcn.com  Tue Mar 19 02:00:51 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:00:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] a different kind of slide
In-Reply-To: <003201c1cec0$56fdc980$a7d6883e@oemcomputer>
References: <3C95B99A.9020001@addcom.de>
 <v03130301b8bb92d6a8c6@208.58.249.177>
Message-ID: <v03130300b8bbf1a6ebce@208.58.252.213>


>The time constant of the TB303's slide is fixed and constant. It makes
>no difference with the speed of the sequencer. There is no premonition,
>no clever circuitry, its a RC filter, thats all.

Well, it certainly doesn't sound like any other RC filter, even when
sequencing other CV synths.  The MC-202 also uses a D/A converter using a
4050 buffer and R-2R ladder, and also uses 4066 switched RC portamento, but
it sounds nothing like the TB-303, even when sequencing other CV synths.

Nor can I get a TB-303 modified with CV/Gate inputs to sound like its being
driven by its internal sequencer when driven by any other sequencer,
including the voltage output from another TB-303 (programmed without
slides) run through an external lag processor.

>>As you know, the 303 is a bit more complicated.
>
>No its glide circuit is simple.

Then why does the slide output of the uP go to the clock input of the hex
latch??

>What IS different about the TB303's glide implementation is that the
>glide is always enabled for a brief moment before every note whether
>glide is programmed or not. Charge injection spikes into the timing
>capacitor may produce a slight blip in the VCO's pitch, as well as the
>fact that the CV is lagged slightly on every new gate. This may or not
>be audible.

It may be audible, but I do not think that provides a complete explanation.





From patchell at silcom.com  Tue Mar 19 02:02:41 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:02:41 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] asm-1 pots
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203171642400.17519-100000@lion.ee.vt.edu> <3C9535A4.1C40119B@silcom.com> <3C958490.5010506@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <3C968E31.1C0BD564@silcom.com>

    The main problem with using 100K pots to supply CV's is that the input impeadence of the control
inputs is also 100K, which will make your linear taper non linear.  You still have the same problem with
10K pots, but not to the same degree.  1K pots are probably better, but then you start to add up the
power consumption (10mA per pot if you use 10 volts).

mark verbos wrote:

> any good reason to not use 100k for supplying CV's? Just curious.
>
> mark
>
> patchell wrote:
>
> >    What I generally do is use pots that are 10K for supplying control
> >voltages, and 100K pots are for attenuators.  Judging from the schematic, you
> >may need a few 1M pots in there as well (for the ADSR at least)....
> >
> >Josh Randall wrote:
> >
> >>I have most of my asm-1 board completed and am planning on getting Xircon
> >>pots.  How do I know what values to get for the different controlls?  Can
> >>I get 100K linear pots for the whole thing or will each control require
> >>different values?
> >>
> >>Thanks for the help.
> >>
> >>Sincerly,
> >>
> >>Josh Randall
> >>
> >
> >--
> > -Jim
> >------------------------------------------------
> >* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> >*-----------------------------------------------
> >*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> >* -Yogi Yorgensen
> >------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> --
> mark verbos
>
> "if you want something done right, build it yourself."
>
> www.simple-answer.com
>
> watch out for...
> on my label SIMPLE ANSWER "Form is Emptiness" Simple Answer 006 out now, distributed by Integrale, UK

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Tue Mar 19 02:09:43 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:09:43 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] polarity switcher
References: <4.2.0.58.20020318135404.00d15460@pop.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C968FD7.EDA065FC@silcom.com>

    For a voltage controlled polarity/gain adjust, I have been using
AD633's...however, this is one awful expensive way to do this (in singles,
they cost about $10).  You can also make a fairly decent four quadrant
multiplier out of a CA3280.  For a non voltage controlled aproach, you can
just use a pot, an opamp, and a few resistors to do this...dang if I can
remember where a good circuit diagram is.

markus wrote:

> would anyone like to recommend a variable polarity-switcher circuit to add
> to my modular? perhaps with voltage control ?
>
> tia
> mark

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Tue Mar 19 02:29:04 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:29:04 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
References: <20020318220914.OSGT21585.out004.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <006001c1cee5$75c8a180$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Scott,

Your meter is anything but typical.

Typical cheapie DMM's have a fixed input impedance of 1 Mohm.

A 10 Mohm meter load across a 1 Mohm source resistance will cause the 10
Mohm source to appear as 9.1 Mohm. Nearly a 10% error. Ouch!

Take care,
John

---- Original Message -----
From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone


> But I wonder by how much the measurement would be different.
> Aren't voltmeter circuits designed to be very high impedance
> specifically so that the meter's load is negligable in most
> cases?
>
> I just looked at the specs for the meter I own, a Fluke 8060a,
> not that it's typical, but the manual says that for DC voltage
> measurement on the 200mv and 2v ranges, the input impedance
> is greater than 1,000 megohms, typically being 10,000 megohms.
> For the other ranges, they state a nominal input impedance of
> 10 megohms.  Even 10 megohms doesn't seem like much of a load.
>



From jpont at stat.ksu.edu  Tue Mar 19 03:37:32 2002
From: jpont at stat.ksu.edu (Jeffrey Pontius)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:37:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [sdiy] asm-1 pots
In-Reply-To: <3C968E31.1C0BD564@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1020318203308.17522A-100000@bastet.stat.ksu.edu>

A search using "asm-1 pots" in the subject field at  the Synth-DIY archive
site http://www.buchi.de/sdiy/ includes several messages for
recommendations of pots by Gene.
You may want to look at it.
Jeff
> > >>I have most of my asm-1 board completed and am planning on getting Xircon
> > >>pots.  How do I know what values to get for the different controlls?  Can
> > >>I get 100K linear pots for the whole thing or will each control require
> > >>different values?
> > >>



From thescum at surfree.com  Tue Mar 19 04:14:07 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:14:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] a different kind of slide
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020319031407.00ee526c@smtp.surfree.com>

>Then why does the slide output of the uP go to the clock input of the hex
>latch??

Economy of microprocessor output pins (again, economics driving the 303
design).  By using some tricky timing characteristics, they were able to get
two uses out of one pin.  If you quickly pulse that line, you'll latch a new
value into the DAC, and induce a breif moment of glide.  If you hold that
line, you'll get the new value into the latch, and switch in the glide circuit.

It would be very interesting to see how the slide signal relates to the gate
input.  It'll bet they're both quantized to the same 16th note steps.

Byron Jacquot



From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Tue Mar 19 09:17:58 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:17:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] polarity switcher
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A6894@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

If you don't want CV controll, just the pot, look here:
http://romcio.multimania.com/m_pics/inverter.gif
and here:
http://romcio.multimania.com/m_pics/smpl_inv.gif

Roman

""-----Original Message-----
""From: markus [mailto:n0nspaz at mindspring.com]
""Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 7:56 PM
""To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
""Subject: [sdiy] polarity switcher
""
""
""would anyone like to recommend a variable polarity-switcher 
""circuit to add 
""to my modular? perhaps with voltage control ?
""
""tia
""mark
""
""
""
""---------------------------------------------------------
""This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
""
""Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
""oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
""


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From matti at devo.com  Tue Mar 19 09:42:52 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:42:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] polarity switcher
In-Reply-To: <200203190026.g2J0Qxp25049@mx.seanet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203190341400.24292-100000@whipit.devo.com>

Why bother with such a (relatively) high-cost device? Wouldn't a simple
opamp suffice? Perhaps with an analog switch for CV control?


enjoy

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 tpaddock at seanet.com wrote:

> If I understand right, an analog multiplier
> should do it. Maybe like an AD633.
> As a bonus, it's a ring modulator.
>  - -- -  Toby Paddock
>
> > would anyone like to recommend a variable
> > polarity-switcher circuit to add
> > to my modular? perhaps with voltage control ?
> >
> > tia
> > mark
> >
>
>

-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 09:44:57 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:44:57 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] FS: Oakley SuperLadder2 module
Message-ID: <000801c1cf2b$ba0026c0$73d4883e@oemcomputer>

For sale: One complete and tested SuperLadder2 module with 3U panel.
This is my own one which is being sold to make way for the new
MultiLadder2 module which I am currently designing. In very good nick,
switchcraft sockets and full working order etc. Picture as seen on the
site. The filter is built as the 'Moog' ladder and not 'TB303'.

www.oakleysound.com/super.htm

The front panel will probably not fit directly into a MOTM mounting
rails as the four holes are in a slightly different positions to the
MOTM standard. I guess you could make the holes bigger and it would
probably fit OK. However, I have never had the chance to try it. It
would of course fit into a wooden case with no trouble. The panel size
is 5U high and 3U wide.

The price is 115UKP including UK postage. An additional 3UKP is needed
for postage elsewhere.

Tony






From debus at cityweb.de  Tue Mar 19 14:30:26 2002
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:30:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
References: <F71rXWq0GPlrwAnekVg000022b0@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C973D71.EEFF9781@cityweb.de>



Happy Harry wrote:
> 
> If the bias on the preamp side of the cap is higher than
> the mic bias voltage... its correct.
> 
> If not it is an assembly error. Measure the DC on both sides
> with respect to ground, and decide...

This depends on where the mic is plugged in. The plus side of the cap is
just connected to the output of the mic.

Plugged into a normal mic input, the cap is reverse biased with 1.5
volts. When plugged into a "plug-in-power" input with a voltage higher
than 1,5 volts, it's forward biased. Perhaps they thought, better have
it reverse biased with 1,5 volts (normal input) than reverse biased with
an unknown voltage (plug-in-power). The two devices with plug-in-power
inputs I own (a camcorder and a MD recorder) have 2,5 volts. Are there
inputs with higher voltage?

Ingo




From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Mar 19 15:36:41 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:36:41
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
Message-ID: <20020319233656.WHIW7755.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Interesting.  Too bad they don't given even a drop of
a clue as to just how this "software problem" manifests
itself.  There are bugs and then there are BUGS.  If
I were wealthy, I'd buy one and critique it for the list.
However, if the bug is bad enough, you would be paying
$40 for a box and some jacks...

Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net> wrote:
>Hi Group!
>
>I saw this and thought y'all might be interested...
>
>http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=395&item=EX-6303
>&type=store
>
>Cheers!
>
>Cynthia
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From media.nai at rcn.com  Tue Mar 19 18:19:20 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:19:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 303 sequencer (was: a different kind of slide)
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20020319031407.00ee526c@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <v03130300b8bcc19ae09f@208.58.250.52>

At 10:14 PM -0500 03/18/02, Byron G. Jacquot wrote:
>
>>Then why does the slide output of the uP go to the clock input of the hex
>>latch??
>
>Economy of microprocessor output pins (again, economics driving the 303
>design).  By using some tricky timing characteristics, they were able to
>>get two uses out of one pin.

According to the schematics, pin 31 of the uP is labeled "pitch data latch
strobe" and is connected to three places: pin 9 of the 7174 hex latch, pin
11 the clock input of a 4013 (type D flip-flop with SR) which goes to the
accent circuit, and the transistor circuit controlling the 4066 which
switches the slide capacitor (this connection is labeled "slide on/off").

On the block diagram, it shows the same connection, with an output of the
uP going to the same three circuits.  There it is labeled as "PE" (Port E),
but pin 31 is described as being part of Port I (the same group as the
"gate signal") in the uP's "functional description".  So there is at least
that slight error.

>If you quickly pulse that line, you'll latch a new
>value into the DAC, and induce a breif moment of glide.  If you hold that
>line, you'll get the new value into the latch, and switch in the glide
>>circuit.

Perhaps I need better information for the MC14174B, but from what I have,
and everything I know about flip-flops, the outputs would only pass to the
inputs to the outputs on a rising clock.  That doesn't make much sense
looking at the TB-303 schematics, where the "pitch data latch strobe" and
"slide on/off" are shown as having the exact same value.

>It would be very interesting to see how the slide signal relates
>to the gate input.  It'll bet they're both quantized to the same
>16th note steps.

Perhaps the slide is dropped a bit early so that the slid note always
arrives before the new note.  I haven't tried taking the slide output of
the uP and seeing when it ends, or using it to control an external lag
processor.





From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 19 18:30:19 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:30:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
Message-ID: <F231PTeLjet47I5pyNE0000f584@hotmail.com>

This is a job for a non-polar electrolytic (imho)   ;^P

H^) harry


>From: Ingo Debus <debus at cityweb.de>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] (Semi-OT) cap polarity in microphone
>Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:30:26 +0100
>
>
>
>Happy Harry wrote:
> >
> > If the bias on the preamp side of the cap is higher than
> > the mic bias voltage... its correct.
> >
> > If not it is an assembly error. Measure the DC on both sides
> > with respect to ground, and decide...
>
>This depends on where the mic is plugged in. The plus side of the cap is
>just connected to the output of the mic.
>
>Plugged into a normal mic input, the cap is reverse biased with 1.5
>volts. When plugged into a "plug-in-power" input with a voltage higher
>than 1,5 volts, it's forward biased. Perhaps they thought, better have
>it reverse biased with 1,5 volts (normal input) than reverse biased with
>an unknown voltage (plug-in-power). The two devices with plug-in-power
>inputs I own (a camcorder and a MD recorder) have 2,5 volts. Are there
>inputs with higher voltage?
>
>Ingo
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



From media.nai at rcn.com  Tue Mar 19 20:49:19 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:49:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] selecting muxes??
In-Reply-To: <3C8BB0CD.A040773D@prodigy.net>
References: <v03130301b8b0f86c0c16@208.58.250.249>
Message-ID: <v0313030ab8bd016bdb22@208.58.251.105>

>The 4000 series have limited voltage range... not ideal for bipolar
>supplies except with some dirty tricks (like +/- 7.5V supplies or
>cheating on the negative supply).

I checked again.  Many of the 4000 (4051, 52, 53) series muxes have Vdd,
Vss, and Vee power pins, and can handle AC signals.

>There is also "charge injection" as a spec which relates to how much of
>the command signal gets coupled into the switched signal. This can be
>very important in S/H apps etc.  Less is better.

OK :)  How would that spec be listed??

>I used the Maxim MAX 308 and MAX 309 in a recent design and was satisfied
>with the performance.  I'm also using the Siliconix DG444 (quad analog
>>switch)

Do you know a vendor in the US for the Siliconix DG series??

>  I've used Siliconix DG-series parts for 20 years.  In my opinion *the*
>analog switches/muxen of choice.  DG308A is quad SPST, DG309A is quad SPST
>with inverse switch logic, DG508A 8:1 mux, DG509A dual 4:1 mux (these have
>TTL-compatible control inputs even at +/-15V supply), to name just a few.
>
>  Siliconix is now Vishay-Siliconix, and the 508/509 are superceded by the
>408/409.  Analog Devices also 2nd-sources many of the parts.  There are
>all sorts of DG parts in the catalog.




From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 21:32:54 2002
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (Trevor Page)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:32:54 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] TR909 / capacitance values question
Message-ID: <006501c1cf85$46b8ca00$205487d9@tb303>

Hi all,

A concern I have always had with my TR909 clone project is the availability
of certain capacitor values used in most drum circuits. Examples of these
values are 18nF, 27nF, 56nF, 82nF and so on.

Personally I have no trouble obtaining these capacitor values, and I expect
most people constructing my project wouldn't have difficulty getting hold of
them either. My concern is that many electronics suppliers only carry a
basic range of capacitors, those being the common 10, 15, 22, 33 etc. (E6?)
Here in the UK, suppliers like Rapid don't stock all of the values I need,
but I can get them from Farnell. But I know that not everyone would have
access to such a supplier. So what I would like to know is, would anybody
anywhere experience difficulty in getting the above values? Such as 8.2nF,
12nF, 27nF, 56nF and so on? (I guess we'd call this the E12 range, right?
:o)

I have found that it is relatively easy, by altering resistances, to modify
the drum circuits so that only 'common' capacitance values are used
throughout whilst leaving the overall sound of the drum circuit unchanged.
Anyone bulding the project would have the choice of using the original
values, or using the 'alternative' ones which are easier to get hold of
[for example, the 8.2nF in the hitom can be replaced with a 10nF, and a 47K
resistor replaced with 39K to compensate].

Is it worth me doing this for the entire design? I can't be bothered doing
it if nobody finds it difficult to get these parts, but if it could save
even one person a lot of aggro, then it's worth doing it.

Any feedback is much appreciated - reply privately if you like.

Kind regards,

Trevor.

PS thanks to those who responded re. PCB manufacture costs, and applogies
for not having replied to all of you personally. All I wanted was a vague
idea how manufacturing charges varied etc.




--
trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk

---> TR909 clone project  <---
www.resonance.fsnet.co.uk/drummachine.html







From florian.fortner at fh-joanneum.at  Tue Mar 19 22:00:48 2002
From: florian.fortner at fh-joanneum.at (Fortner Florian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:00:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] ASM VCO with 12V supply?
Message-ID: <58655394BA88D411803000508BDF35B8D68772@magellan>

Hello List,

The Littleman Synthesizer design uses a V/Hz VCO supplied with +-12V, would
this VCO be replacable with the ASM VCO (working with +-15V) which provides
V/oct CV? Or do one need to recalculate the whole circuit? The other
possibility would be an exponential converter but then the part count is
going to be VERY high for a single VCO.
Any recommendations?

regards,

flo


From Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Mar 19 22:15:12 2002
From: Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk (Lincoln Fong)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:15:12 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80
Message-ID: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEMPCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>

I've been given a CS80 for a short while with no footpedals or instructions.
On the front someone has put a label: 'Important, connect footpedals before
switching on'. As a bodge can I put a tip-ring shorted quarter inch jack in
the footpedal (expression) socket or is there something special about the
proper pedal? Is it just a potential divider and where can I get one? I know
a volume pedal could be rewired but would this give an adequate range from
nothing to full level?

I'm assuming no sound will come out without the pedal and that no harm would
actually occur if it were switched on.

Thanks,

Lincoln



From greg.montalbano at ucop.edu  Tue Mar 19 22:31:21 2002
From: greg.montalbano at ucop.edu (greg montalbano)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:31:21 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Wanted:  Siel Expander
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319132641.01f6fb60@popserv.ucop.edu>

Hi -- anybody who wants to unload a dead (or dying) Siel Expander (also 
known as the Ex-600), please let me know.
Thanks....



From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Tue Mar 19 22:32:16 2002
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:32:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
Message-ID: <B8BCFC70.314F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>

Hi Group!

I saw this and thought y'all might be interested...

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=395&item=EX-6303
&type=store

Cheers!

Cynthia



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 19 22:50:19 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:50:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] selecting muxes??
Message-ID: <F3HG4vfAf51jPAzf59D00010c78@hotmail.com>

Howdy: inline


> >The 4000 series have limited voltage range... not ideal for bipolar
> >supplies except with some dirty tricks (like +/- 7.5V supplies or
> >cheating on the negative supply).
>
>I checked again.  Many of the 4000 (4051, 52, 53) series muxes have Vdd,
>Vss, and Vee power pins, and can handle AC signals.

Same comment.... You are limited to 18V total, maximum so you cannot use the 
standard +/- 12 to 15V supplies.  The on-resistance variation
over the full voltage range is NOT very good.

OTOH, units like the Prophet V used the dirty tricks to get quite
acceptable performance out of 4000 series CMOS analog switches...


> >There is also "charge injection" as a spec which relates to how much of
> >the command signal gets coupled into the switched signal. This can be
> >very important in S/H apps etc.  Less is better.
>
>OK :)  How would that spec be listed??

As "Charge Injection" in (your small prefix here) coulombs.

If it doesn't say you don't want to know....


>Do you know a vendor in the US for the Siliconix DG series??

Check the Vishay- Siliconix website for the distributor near you...
;^)


H^) harry




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Tue Mar 19 23:02:12 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:02:12 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80
Message-ID: <18f.5181526.29c90f64@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/19/02 1:17:08 PM, Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk writes:

<< I've been given a CS80 for a short while with no footpedals or 
instructions.
On the front someone has put a label: 'Important, connect footpedals before
switching on'. As a bodge can I put a tip-ring shorted quarter inch jack in
the footpedal (expression) socket or is there something special about the
proper pedal? Is it just a potential divider and where can I get one? I know
a volume pedal could be rewired but would this give an adequate range from
nothing to full level?

I'm assuming no sound will come out without the pedal and that no harm would
actually occur if it were switched on.
 >>

The CS-80 (and almost all of Yamaha's pre-1987 instruments) used an optical 
footpedal.  It contained a photoresistor and a smal incandescent light bulb.  
The pedal moved a little "curtain" between the light bulb and the 
photoresistor.  I think that one of the three terminals was DC voltage for 
the bulb, the other two were ground and the "wiper" of the photoresistor.  
The early DX7 volume pedals worked pretty much the same way.  Unfortunately, 
I don't have access to the schematics right now, so I can't give any more 
detailed help.  For safety's sake, you probably shouldn't directly short any 
of those wires to ground (without some sort of current-limiting resistor in 
series with the short, at least 1K).  Maybe someone who has the schematics 
will chime in here...

Mike B.



From sarth at sarth.net  Wed Mar 20 00:06:15 2002
From: sarth at sarth.net (Sarth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:06:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80
References: <18f.5181526.29c90f64@aol.com>
Message-ID: <02d101c1cf9a$abf72aa0$0300000a@exario.net>

Are you sure that's not just an admonition that the footpedals won't work
properly without being connected before power-on? It seems so odd that a
synth could be damaged or even work improperly if powered up without
footpedals connected.

----- Original Message -----
From: <WeAreAs1 at aol.com>
To: <Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80


>
> In a message dated 3/19/02 1:17:08 PM, Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk
writes:
>
> << I've been given a CS80 for a short while with no footpedals or
> instructions.
> On the front someone has put a label: 'Important, connect footpedals
before
> switching on'. As a bodge can I put a tip-ring shorted quarter inch jack
in
> the footpedal (expression) socket or is there something special about the
> proper pedal? Is it just a potential divider and where can I get one? I
know
> a volume pedal could be rewired but would this give an adequate range from
> nothing to full level?
>
> I'm assuming no sound will come out without the pedal and that no harm
would
> actually occur if it were switched on.
>  >>
>
> The CS-80 (and almost all of Yamaha's pre-1987 instruments) used an
optical
> footpedal.  It contained a photoresistor and a smal incandescent light
bulb.
> The pedal moved a little "curtain" between the light bulb and the
> photoresistor.  I think that one of the three terminals was DC voltage for
> the bulb, the other two were ground and the "wiper" of the photoresistor.
> The early DX7 volume pedals worked pretty much the same way.
Unfortunately,
> I don't have access to the schematics right now, so I can't give any more
> detailed help.  For safety's sake, you probably shouldn't directly short
any
> of those wires to ground (without some sort of current-limiting resistor
in
> series with the short, at least 1K).  Maybe someone who has the schematics
> will chime in here...
>
> Mike B.
>



From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Wed Mar 20 00:12:59 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:12:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80
In-Reply-To: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEMPCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203191803260.1985-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Lincoln Fong wrote:

> I've been given a CS80 for a short while with no footpedals or
> instructions. On the front someone has put a label: 'Important, connect
> footpedals before switching on'. As a bodge can I put a tip-ring shorted
> quarter inch jack in the footpedal (expression) socket or is there
> something special about the proper pedal? Is it just a potential divider
> and where can I get one? I know a volume pedal could be rewired but
> would this give an adequate range from nothing to full level?
> 
> I'm assuming no sound will come out without the pedal and that no harm
> would actually occur if it were switched on.

  You do not need the expression edal to use the instrument.  The note was
probably placed there because it states in the user manual to not attach
pedals with the power on, other wise there is a risk of shorting a +V
supply to ground.

  The expression pedal works in conjuction with the EXP & EXP/WAH switches 
to the left of the keyboard.  The sustain pedal is just a footswitch, 
whereas the exp pedal is a LDR-type.  While these pedals enhance the use 
of the machine, they are not strictly needed.

Crow
http://www.cs80.com/
/**/



From tom at tommay.net  Wed Mar 20 00:25:49 2002
From: tom at tommay.net (Tom May)
Date: 19 Mar 2002 15:25:49 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] asm-1 pots
In-Reply-To: Josh Randall's message of "Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:45:12 -0500 (EST)"
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203171642400.17519-100000@lion.ee.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <E16nSzF-0002xS-00@warpcore.tom>

Josh Randall <jorandal at vt.edu> writes:

> I have most of my asm-1 board completed and am planning on getting Xircon
> pots.  How do I know what values to get for the different controlls?  Can
> I get 100K linear pots for the whole thing or will each control require
> different values?
> 
> Thanks for the help.

I spent a lot of time coming up with the right sort of controls
for my ASM-1.  See what I came up with here:

http://spudware.hypermart.net/asm-1/

As for warped responses others mention, it's not like my controls are
calibrated, things are easily set by ear, and I don't find I have
problems with one end of the range being too sensitive and the other
not sensitive enough.

Tom.


From philgallo at attglobal.net  Wed Mar 20 01:47:48 2002
From: philgallo at attglobal.net (phillip m gallo)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:47:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
Message-ID: <NDBBIHDOCLEONAFFOKBAMEHJCFAA.philgallo@attglobal.net>

Well i'll let you know i just picked one up.

>Interesting.  Too bad they don't given even a drop of
>a clue as to just how this "software problem" manifests
>itself.  There are bugs and then there are BUGS.  If
>I were wealthy, I'd buy one and critique it for the list.
>However, if the bug is bad enough, you would be paying
>$40 for a box and some jacks...

Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net> wrote:
>Hi Group!
>
>I saw this and thought y'all might be interested...
>
>http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=395&item=EX-630
3
>&type=store
>
>Cheers!
>
>Cynthia
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/02



From jlarryh at iquest.net  Wed Mar 20 01:52:25 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:52:25 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
References: <20020319233656.WHIW7755.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <004501c1cfa9$816fe060$46312bd1@oemcomputer>

I wonder too.  Maybe it might be useful even with a known bug.  Since the
evaluation would be for the benefit of the group, maybe others would be
interested in contributing to the purchase of an evaluation unit for someone
with the time and wherewithal to post a good evaluation to the list.  I
would be happy to stick a couple of George Washingtons in a envelope and
send them to you for a good review.  Maybe 15 or 20 others on the list might
also.
Others?
Larry H


----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...


Interesting.  Too bad they don't given even a drop of
a clue as to just how this "software problem" manifests
itself.  There are bugs and then there are BUGS.  If
I were wealthy, I'd buy one and critique it for the list.
However, if the bug is bad enough, you would be paying
$40 for a box and some jacks...

Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net> wrote:
>Hi Group!
>
>I saw this and thought y'all might be interested...
>
>http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=395&item=EX-630
3
>&type=store
>
>Cheers!
>
>Cynthia
>
>

=========================================================
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html






From patchell at silcom.com  Wed Mar 20 02:00:25 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:00:25 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] polarity switcher
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203190341400.24292-100000@whipit.devo.com>
Message-ID: <3C97DF29.886E6436@silcom.com>

     That all depends on if you want it to be voltage controlled or not.
Yep..an opamp and a pot and a few resistors weill do the same job.  A
multiplier will do the job without a pot.  You pay for versatility.

matti wrote:

> Why bother with such a (relatively) high-cost device? Wouldn't a simple
> opamp suffice? Perhaps with an analog switch for CV control?
>
> enjoy
>
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 tpaddock at seanet.com wrote:
>
> > If I understand right, an analog multiplier
> > should do it. Maybe like an AD633.
> > As a bonus, it's a ring modulator.
> >  - -- -  Toby Paddock
> >
> > > would anyone like to recommend a variable
> > > polarity-switcher circuit to add
> > > to my modular? perhaps with voltage control ?
> > >
> > > tia
> > > mark
> > >
> >
> >
>
> -
> I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
> I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
> eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
> couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
> wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
> Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
> supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From djmarmalade at planetp.org  Wed Mar 20 02:44:20 2002
From: djmarmalade at planetp.org (DJ Marmalade)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:44:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
References: <20020319233656.WHIW7755.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <021b01c1cfb0$c1b76560$3da2d03f@gretta>

The site did not say they have a software problem, it said "a software
problem, or something like that".  That indicates to me that all electronics
doesn't really know.  It is possible, that the only thing wrong with them is
that it is a product that numark wants to just dump and not be bothered with
support issues.  By declaring they don't work, they assure that, for the
most part, the units won't get into the hands of people that don't know what
they're doing. The price isn't really that good considering what these
things sold for new.  I bet they work just fine, or at least as well as any
of them ever did.  Even if they do work though, I doubt there's enough
interface on that thing to make it a really good sequencer.  Keep in mind,
this is all coming straight out of my ass so wash your hands after reading
this email and don't bother telling me I don't know what I'm talking about,
cause I already know.

daryl


----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...


> Interesting.  Too bad they don't given even a drop of
> a clue as to just how this "software problem" manifests
> itself.  There are bugs and then there are BUGS.  If
> I were wealthy, I'd buy one and critique it for the list.
> However, if the bug is bad enough, you would be paying
> $40 for a box and some jacks...
>
> Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net> wrote:
> >Hi Group!
> >
> >I saw this and thought y'all might be interested...
> >
>
>http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=395&item=EX-630
3
> >&type=store
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
> >Cynthia
> >
> >
>
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>
>



From perpetual at uswest.net  Wed Mar 20 03:57:49 2002
From: perpetual at uswest.net (alex dickey)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:57:49 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
References: <20020319233656.WHIW7755.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan> <021b01c1cfb0$c1b76560$3da2d03f@gretta>
Message-ID: <002e01c1cfbb$055bc9a0$34fee03f@lazysusan>

anybody friends with mike peake?  doesn't he work for alesis?  seems like he
might know something about this...

alex



From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Wed Mar 20 04:39:41 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:39:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 707 ways to baffle a cat...
Message-ID: <3C98047D.4DD9A24F@verizon.net>



so after having a gutted tr-707 for many months, I mustered up the
energy and put it back together (still had all the parts too)...  I
changed many of the LED's to different colored high-intensity.  the
first led (the first beat, or bass drum select) doesn't work.. I might
have done that wrong, haven't checked.

the problem is that it seems to 'stutter' on the reset of the
sequence.  Low tom for example, if it's on the first note, it will
trigger twice.  Most of the sounds don't do this, but there is still a
little lag when it goes from 16 to 1.  at this point, many of the
'dots' in the display light up momentarily, and often, many of the
'instrument' LED's also give a breif flash... 

Anybody have any ideas?  

I think I'm way over my head with this, so if there is anybody on the
list who has experience with these fellas whom I could send it off to
and have it repaired..etc..

well.. what says you oh gurus..?

-ben


From CHoaglin at aol.com  Wed Mar 20 06:03:37 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:03:37 EST
Subject: [sdiy] polarity switcher
Message-ID: <171.a93f432.29c97229@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/18/02 7:28:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
tpaddock at seanet.com writes:


> 
> If I understand right, an analog multiplier 
> should do it. Maybe like an AD633. 
> As a bonus, it's a ring modulator. 
> 

As in multiplying a positive input on one input with a negative input on the 
other to get a change of sign -------> +5 * -1 = -5 ?

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020320/3ec16116/attachment.htm>

From synth1 at airmail.net  Wed Mar 20 06:57:41 2002
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:57:41 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] New Artists and Demos
Message-ID: <002b01c1cfd4$259dcec0$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Added new folks to the MOTM Artist page and a new "chaos patch" demo ('Alien Digestion') to the
Demo page, along with some dub/guitar/space demos.

http://www.synthtech.com

Thanks for visiting.

Paul Schreiber
Synthesis Technology




From alcratin at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 20 07:17:10 2002
From: alcratin at hotmail.com (Alex)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:17:10 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
References: <20020319233656.WHIW7755.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan> <021b01c1cfb0$c1b76560$3da2d03f@gretta>
Message-ID: <OE38rvaLa0ySjR4v8k70001b3ba@hotmail.com>

Hi All,

I live in Los Angeles and I go to the All Electronics location in Van Nuys
that actually has these units on the shelf.  I can tell you that if you've
ever been to a ham fest or a electronic swap meet, that is basically the
inside of this shop. They also have Alesis keyboard assemblies in a box in
the back of the shop as well. From what I could discern from reading the
manual that they had in plain view was that this was one of the last of the
Nano series, It's a simple Midi Sequence Recorder that uses a PCMCIA card to
store it's memories on. The standard PCMCIA Blank PCMCIA card is sold at any
Mars or GC for about $100.  These units are in Brand New condition still
wrapped in their little plastic baggies in the little boxes. AllElec is a
surplus store, there is a lot of stuff in that store that I'm not sure that
they even knew where it came from.  All in all, it's a neat little find for
those that want to play back MIDI sequences especially handy for those that
still sequence live and don't want to be seen on stage with a laptop.

Oh well, that's my two cents worth, AllElec is a cool bargain hunters
paradise for electronics noodlers like ourselves.  The one cool thing they
do have is a whole bunch of motorized slide and rotarty pots for real cheap
and there's stuff in the store that they don't feature in the catalog.

Later.
Alcratin
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Marmalade" <djmarmalade at planetp.org>
To: <music.maker at gte.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...


> The site did not say they have a software problem, it said "a software
> problem, or something like that".  That indicates to me that all
electronics
> doesn't really know.  It is possible, that the only thing wrong with them
is
> that it is a product that numark wants to just dump and not be bothered
with
> support issues.  By declaring they don't work, they assure that, for the
> most part, the units won't get into the hands of people that don't know
what
> they're doing. The price isn't really that good considering what these
> things sold for new.  I bet they work just fine, or at least as well as
any
> of them ever did.  Even if they do work though, I doubt there's enough
> interface on that thing to make it a really good sequencer.  Keep in mind,
> this is all coming straight out of my ass so wash your hands after reading
> this email and don't bother telling me I don't know what I'm talking
about,
> cause I already know.
>
> daryl
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
>
>
> > Interesting.  Too bad they don't given even a drop of
> > a clue as to just how this "software problem" manifests
> > itself.  There are bugs and then there are BUGS.  If
> > I were wealthy, I'd buy one and critique it for the list.
> > However, if the bug is bad enough, you would be paying
> > $40 for a box and some jacks...
> >
> > Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net> wrote:
> > >Hi Group!
> > >
> > >I saw this and thought y'all might be interested...
> > >
> >
>
>http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=395&item=EX-630
> 3
> > >&type=store
> > >
> > >Cheers!
> > >
> > >Cynthia
> > >
> > >
> >
> > =========================================================
> > - Government: The other religion.
> > - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> > - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
> >
> > -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> > -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> > -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> > -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
> >
> >
>
>


From djmarmalade at planetp.org  Wed Mar 20 07:37:39 2002
From: djmarmalade at planetp.org (DJ Marmalade)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:37:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
References: <20020319233656.WHIW7755.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan> <021b01c1cfb0$c1b76560$3da2d03f@gretta> <OE38rvaLa0ySjR4v8k70001b3ba@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cfdd$9d2d5380$3da2d03f@gretta>

>AllElec is a
> surplus store, there is a lot of stuff in that store that I'm not sure
that
> they even knew where it came from.

This is what I was assuming. I hope  my words were not mistaken as criticism
for all electronics.

Daryl




>
>
> > The site did not say they have a software problem, it said "a software
> > problem, or something like that".  That indicates to me that all
> electronics
> > doesn't really know.  It is possible, that the only thing wrong with
them
> is
> > that it is a product that numark wants to just dump and not be bothered
> with
> > support issues.  By declaring they don't work, they assure that, for the
> > most part, the units won't get into the hands of people that don't know
> what
> > they're doing. The price isn't really that good considering what these
> > things sold for new.  I bet they work just fine, or at least as well as
> any
> > of them ever did.  Even if they do work though, I doubt there's enough
> > interface on that thing to make it a really good sequencer.  Keep in
mind,
> > this is all coming straight out of my ass so wash your hands after
reading
> > this email and don't bother telling me I don't know what I'm talking
> about,
> > cause I already know.
> >
> > daryl
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
> > To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
> >
> >
> > > Interesting.  Too bad they don't given even a drop of
> > > a clue as to just how this "software problem" manifests
> > > itself.  There are bugs and then there are BUGS.  If
> > > I were wealthy, I'd buy one and critique it for the list.
> > > However, if the bug is bad enough, you would be paying
> > > $40 for a box and some jacks...
> > >
> > > Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net> wrote:
> > > >Hi Group!
> > > >
> > > >I saw this and thought y'all might be interested...
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=395&item=EX-630
> > 3
> > > >&type=store
> > > >
> > > >Cheers!
> > > >
> > > >Cynthia
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > =========================================================
> > > - Government: The other religion.
> > > - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> > > - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
> > >
> > > -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> > > -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> > > -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> > > -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>



From bigfootstudios at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 20 08:00:38 2002
From: bigfootstudios at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:00:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
In-Reply-To: <002e01c1cfbb$055bc9a0$34fee03f@lazysusan>
Message-ID: <20020320070038.24186.qmail@web20502.mail.yahoo.com>

This was discussed on AH a while back.. Here's a post from Mike Peake about the
nightmare that was the Nanotracker:

From: Peake peake at pacificnet.net,
cc: 
Subject: Re: [AH] sequencing [alesis where are you?]
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 98 14:47:28 -0000


>> the latest sweetwater sound catalouge has listed what i believe is the
>> "new alesis sequencer" you are talking about. it's called the "nano
>> tracker". it does have a floppy drive, it does not have 8 buttons (and
>> lights) to turn tracks on and off.
>> 
>> deknow

I happened to be at work today and saw this, so from the horse's mouth:
Nanotracker no more. BTW, it was a PCM CIA card slot, not a floppy 
drive. I ran the Beta test team for the NT, and due to incapable 
outside programmers, it was killed. They really screwed up in their 
attempts at programming. I'd love to share details but that wouldn't 
be corporately correct. 

>nah, that's not it. rumors of an mmt-32 were abounding last year, but
>alesis reportedly scrapped the project

We had spec'd out something larger than an MMT32, but marketing 
decided that it had to have several options tacked on to make it 
desirable, and as a result, it became too expensive and was killed. 
They wanted it to control ADATs, etc. in addition to sequencing. 
We tried to slim it down and presented it again, but all the problems 
we were having with the NanoTracker soured them too deeply to 
okay it's development (and we don't have the spare time to do 
it alone). 

>Hi all,
>regarding the nanotracker (that is what it was going to be) I'm on the
>Alesis list because I have a QS7, and straight from the horseses' mouths
>the nanotracker is no more. It had MAJOR software bugs because they
>brought in outside ppl to program it. Everyone at Alesis was really
>bummed about the failure. BTW the Alesis crew is super, never to busy to
>answer stupid little questions the list throws at them.
>that's all,
>dalas

Thanks. The above about the NT is exact. And the going joke was that 
in the time it was taking them to work on the NT, any one of us could 
have learned code and done it ourselves. 

Easier,

Mike
Alesis Synthesizer Group

=====
BigFoot Recording Studios
40-Track Facility
Fremont, CA
www.bigfootstudio.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/


From dragonservicing at success4business.com  Wed Mar 20 08:06:16 2002
From: dragonservicing at success4business.com (Peter M Blackett)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:06:16 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80, pedal inputs non standard
References: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEMPCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9834E8.1C430728@success4business.com>

Dear Lincoln ,
the pedal inputs aren't a standard potential divider ......
the original pedals have a small bulb and a ldr , so if you plug in a
mono jack plug you will [ I think ] short out one of the supply
voltages.
[not a good idea ! ]
from what I can remember you don't need to have a pedal plugged in to
get the synth to work.
regards Peter


From music.maker at gte.net  Wed Mar 20 07:30:53 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:30:53
Subject: [sdiy] FSK specifications
Message-ID: <20020320153102.ZBFO2959.out008.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Yes!  Do it!  Not silly!

FSK is a form of FM and the encoded signal can be easily 
recovered with a PLL.  I would use a 4046.  You will 
probably need to condition the output to make a logic 
level, then run that into your favorite CMOS divider 
chips.  This should be a piece of cake and work like a 
peach.  This is exactly the sort of thing for which a PLL 
is perfect.

Dave Magnuson <resfreq at hoohahrecords.com> wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I just had a silly idea that may or may not work.  I was wondering if it
>would be possible to use clock dividers to derive 1/4 1/8 and 1/16 notes
>from the FSK output of my sequencer.
>
>From my understanding, FSK is simply a pulse wave clock, right?  How many
>ppqn will it generally have?  I just figure this may be an easy way to
>"cheat" and avoid using my DIN-Sync convreter to feed my clock dividers.
>
>Any ideas?  Googling didn't turn up any good links to the FSK signal specs.
> Note that I have regular FSK not "smart FSK" or SMPTE.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Dave Magnuson 
>
>Resonant Frequency:
>resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
>http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Wed Mar 20 08:33:35 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 02:33:35 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
Message-ID: <d0.24202ce5.29c9954f@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/19/02 6:50:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jlarryh at iquest.net writes:


> I
> would be happy to stick a couple of George Washingtons in a envelope and
> send them to you for a good review.  Maybe 15 or 20 others on the list might
> also.
> Others?
> 

I'll second that...

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020320/0cd596e8/attachment.htm>

From dave.brown at uk.thalesgroup.com  Wed Mar 20 08:56:05 2002
From: dave.brown at uk.thalesgroup.com (Brown David)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:56:05 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <41DD7618430DD411870400D0B746EDEDB72074@mail.tms-ltd.com>

unsubscribe

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify Thales Underwater Systems on +44 1963
370 551. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
distribute its contents to any other person.


From CHoaglin at aol.com  Wed Mar 20 08:56:43 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 02:56:43 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
Message-ID: <142.b5cdac5.29c99abb@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/20/02 1:20:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
alcratin at hotmail.com writes:


> . The standard PCMCIA Blank PCMCIA card is sold at any
> Mars or GC for about $100.  

And don't even THINK about getting bent over by them for $100 for it. You can 
get an 8MB flash card for 10 bucks or so on ebay. It might or might not need 
to be a Type I card as opposed to Type II, but I'm not sure. A 16MB card goes 
for $20 on pricewatch + shipping...more than enough memory to store all the 
sequences you could ever want....Actually, while we're on the subject of 
flash, do any of the EE's here know if there's the equivalent of a read 
protect security bit on a flash card? I'm guessing no due to how they're 
accessed. Better yet, does anybody know of software to copy cards with?

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020320/a0b1414a/attachment.htm>

From pgrenader at mksound.com  Wed Mar 20 09:52:29 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:52:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
In-Reply-To: <004501c1cfa9$816fe060$46312bd1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <B8BD9BDD.2EB5%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Don't know if any of you have any been there, but I live in LA and ALL
Electronics is an interesting place to say the least.  They're the king of
surplus. I would wager that they don't have a clue about these midi units,
as they probably bought them by the pound.  I am half-serious about this.

When they got the keyboards from Alexis, there were literally hundreds of
them piled up all over the place.  The guys there knew they were musical
keyboards, heard from one guy who bought one that they might not work and
that's about it.  They've got piles of disk drives, partially built-up
faceplates, OEM DC supplies, old AM radios from cars....it's really a
terrific joint.

Ther's a box there about 3x3x3 feet that's literally filled to the hilt with
nos off-white plastic rotary TV channel knobs that look to be from about
1950!


> I wonder too.  Maybe it might be useful even with a known bug.  Since the
> evaluation would be for the benefit of the group, maybe others would be
> interested in contributing to the purchase of an evaluation unit for someone
> with the time and wherewithal to post a good evaluation to the list.  I
> would be happy to stick a couple of George Washingtons in a envelope and
> send them to you for a good review.  Maybe 15 or 20 others on the list might
> also.
> Others?
> Larry H
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
> 
> 
> Interesting.  Too bad they don't given even a drop of
> a clue as to just how this "software problem" manifests
> itself.  There are bugs and then there are BUGS.  If
> I were wealthy, I'd buy one and critique it for the list.
> However, if the bug is bad enough, you would be paying
> $40 for a box and some jacks...
> 
> Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net> wrote:
>> Hi Group!
>> 
>> I saw this and thought y'all might be interested...
>> 
>> http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=395&item=EX-630
> 3
>> &type=store
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> 
>> Cynthia
>> 
>> 
> 
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
> 
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Wed Mar 20 10:13:05 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:13:05 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] ASM VCO with 12V supply?
In-Reply-To: <58655394BA88D411803000508BDF35B8D68772@magellan>
References: <58655394BA88D411803000508BDF35B8D68772@magellan>
Message-ID: <20020320.101305.74750678.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Fortner Florian <florian.fortner at fh-joanneum.at>
Subject: [sdiy] ASM VCO with 12V supply?
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:00:48 +0100

> Hello List,

Hi Florian,

> The Littleman Synthesizer design uses a V/Hz VCO supplied with +-12V, would
> this VCO be replacable with the ASM VCO (working with +-15V) which provides
> V/oct CV? Or do one need to recalculate the whole circuit?

I do not beleive that there is any major problems to solve in order to
run it as +/- 12V. If you want to ensure properties you need to adjust
the resistor giving exponential transistor-pair reference current,
just recale by 12/15. Also, the LM311 comparators reference voltage
then needs adjustment, so that the voltage divider of 20k/10k gives
you +5V. This is just from the top of my head. I don't recall if the
waveshapers need attention, but it is equalently easilly fixed.

So, if you need to recalculate things, there are really only a few
components involved anyway. I know that some people have done it, so
it is not at all unfeasable.

> The other
> possibility would be an exponential converter but then the part count is
> going to be VERY high for a single VCO.
> Any recommendations?

It is easy enougth to build a expo-converter and you should be able to
hook it in.

Cheers,
Magnus


From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Wed Mar 20 15:52:40 2002
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:52:40 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] FSK specifications
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020320095240.007ca490@hoohahrecords.com>

Hi everyone,

I just had a silly idea that may or may not work.  I was wondering if it
would be possible to use clock dividers to derive 1/4 1/8 and 1/16 notes
from the FSK output of my sequencer.

>From my understanding, FSK is simply a pulse wave clock, right?  How many
ppqn will it generally have?  I just figure this may be an easy way to
"cheat" and avoid using my DIN-Sync convreter to feed my clock dividers.

Any ideas?  Googling didn't turn up any good links to the FSK signal specs.
 Note that I have regular FSK not "smart FSK" or SMPTE.

Thanks in advance

Dave Magnuson 

Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From debus at cityweb.de  Wed Mar 20 16:01:03 2002
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:01:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80
References: <18f.5181526.29c90f64@aol.com> <02d101c1cf9a$abf72aa0$0300000a@exario.net>
Message-ID: <3C98A42E.D27C3BAD@cityweb.de>



Sarth wrote:
> 
> Are you sure that's not just an admonition that the footpedals won't work
> properly without being connected before power-on? It seems so odd that a
> synth could be damaged or even work improperly if powered up without
> footpedals connected.

It seems odd, but I have an old organ which indeed doesn't work without
its volume pedal connected. The reason is, believe it or not, the mains
transformer is in the pedal. I don't know if they did this to make the
pedal heavier, or to keep the transformer as far away as possible from
the reverb spring.

Ingo




From media.nai at rcn.com  Wed Mar 20 16:34:12 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:34:12 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] FSK specifications
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020320095240.007ca490@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <v03130307b8be156c36cc@208.58.250.50>

At 9:52 AM -0500 03/20/02, Dave Magnuson wrote:
>
>I just had a silly idea that may or may not work.  I was wondering if it
>would be possible to use clock dividers to derive 1/4 1/8 and 1/16 notes
>from the FSK output of my sequencer.
>
>From my understanding, FSK is simply a pulse wave clock, right?  How many
>ppqn will it generally have?  I just figure this may be an easy way to
>"cheat" and avoid using my DIN-Sync convreter to feed my clock dividers.

I think it depends on the device.  As far as I know there is no official
FSK spec.  While it could be a pulse wave, its carrier (or is that
modulator?? :) frequency is not a multiple of, nor related to the tempo.
In the case of the TR-909 it alternates between a 1200Hz and 2400Hz pulse
"at every half-period of T which is 1/24 of the time required for most of
Roland products to process a quarter note."  So it has 48 shifts per
quarter note.  I'm thinking you would have to demodulate the signal first,
then divide it down.  Imho, using DIN sync would be much easier.





From greg.montalbano at ucop.edu  Wed Mar 20 17:29:18 2002
From: greg.montalbano at ucop.edu (greg montalbano)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:29:18 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] FSK specifications
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020320095240.007ca490@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020320082437.022eb2e0@popserv.ucop.edu>

I have a vague memory of a Craig Anderton/PAIA kit something along those 
lines...
can't find any record of it in my office mess here.
Anybody else?

At 09:52 AM 3/20/02 -0500, Dave wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I just had a silly idea that may or may not work.  I was wondering if it
>would be possible to use clock dividers to derive 1/4 1/8 and 1/16 notes
>from the FSK output of my sequencer.
>
> >From my understanding, FSK is simply a pulse wave clock, right?  How many
>ppqn will it generally have?  I just figure this may be an easy way to
>"cheat" and avoid using my DIN-Sync convreter to feed my clock dividers.
>
>Any ideas?  Googling didn't turn up any good links to the FSK signal specs.
>  Note that I have regular FSK not "smart FSK" or SMPTE.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Dave Magnuson
>
>Resonant Frequency:
>resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
>http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html



From media.nai at rcn.com  Wed Mar 20 17:49:07 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] selecting muxes??
In-Reply-To: <F3HG4vfAf51jPAzf59D00010c78@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <v0313030bb8be294be063@208.58.250.50>


>Howdy: inline

???

>> >The 4000 series have limited voltage range... not ideal for bipolar
>> >supplies except with some dirty tricks (like +/- 7.5V supplies or
>> >cheating on the negative supply).
>>
>>I checked again.  Many of the 4000 (4051, 52, 53) series muxes have Vdd,
>>Vss, and Vee power pins, and can handle AC signals.
>
>Same comment.... You are limited to 18V total, maximum so you cannot use
>>the standard +/- 12 to 15V supplies.  The on-resistance variation
>over the full voltage range is NOT very good.

OK :)

>OTOH, units like the Prophet V used the dirty tricks to get quite
>acceptable performance out of 4000 series CMOS analog switches...

Do you know what those tricks were??

>> >There is also "charge injection" as a spec which relates to how much of
>> >the command signal gets coupled into the switched signal. This can be
>> >very important in S/H apps etc.  Less is better.
>>
>>OK :)  How would that spec be listed??
>
>As "Charge Injection" in (your small prefix here) coulombs.
>
>If it doesn't say you don't want to know....

It doesn't seem to be listed for any of the 4000 series muxes.

>>Do you know a vendor in the US for the Siliconix DG series??
>
>Check the Vishay- Siliconix website for the distributor near you...
>;^)

Oh, that's helpful ;)


THANX!!  :)




From mclilith at ezwv.com  Wed Mar 20 18:27:23 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:27:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
In-Reply-To: <142.b5cdac5.29c99abb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020320122458.00969af0@mail.ezwv.com>

At 02:56 AM 3/20/02 , CHoaglin at aol.com wrote: 
>
> In a message dated 3/20/02 1:20:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> alcratin at hotmail.com writes: 
>
>
>>
>> . The standard PCMCIA Blank PCMCIA card is sold at any 
>> Mars or GC for about $100.  
>
>
>
> And don't even THINK about getting bent over by them for $100 for it. You can
> get an 8MB flash card for 10 bucks or so on ebay. It might or might not need
> to be a Type I card as opposed to Type II, but I'm not sure. A 16MB card goes
> for $20 on pricewatch + shipping...more than enough memory to store all the
> sequences you could ever want....Actually, while we're on the subject of
> flash, do any of the EE's here know if there's the equivalent of a read
> protect security bit on a flash card? I'm guessing no due to how they're
> accessed. Better yet, does anybody know of software to copy cards with? 
>
> -Chris



I don't think he ever said it was a "flash" PCMCIA card. Maybe it's SRAM
instead? That might explain the higher price.


Later,
Glen



From mclilith at ezwv.com  Wed Mar 20 18:29:20 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:29:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard questions
In-Reply-To: <v04220804b8bb1a37f28f@[64.172.21.178]>
References: <4.1.20020317224350.0094b9e0@mail.ezwv.com>
 <4.1.20020317224350.0094b9e0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020320120106.009543e0@mail.ezwv.com>

At 11:19 PM 3/17/02 , Simon Gatrall wrote:

>>I hope that you aren't claiming that only two companies in the world
>>manufacture all the musical keyboards, because that is not the case. I'm
>>curious as to what you meant exactly.
>
>He's refering to the keyboard mechanisms themselves, not the keybaord 
>and the music making circuitry.  Indeed, Fatar makes a huge number of 
>the keyboards in the world.  Just like Alps, Keytronic and a few 
>other companies control the QWERTY keyboard business.

I know he meant the only the actual key mechanisms. However, he was at least
implying that Fatar and Yamaha held enough patents to completely control who
was able to legally manufacture a keyboard (literally a keyboard, not a
complete musical instrument). Again, this isn't true. There are certainly other
companies that manufacture keyboards (raw keyboards, not complete musical
instruments), besides Fatar and Yamaha. They also didn't have to pay license
fees to either Fatar or Yamaha, in order to do so.

Later,
Glen


From scott at tellun.com  Wed Mar 20 18:55:29 2002
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:55:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] FSK specifications
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020320082437.022eb2e0@popserv.ucop.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020320082437.022eb2e0@popserv.ucop.edu>
Message-ID: <p05100303b8be7a40a43c@[192.168.1.101]>

You're thinking about the PAIA 6770 Master Synchronizer designed by 
Craig Anderton (found in Jan/Feb 1983 issues of Keyboard). I still 
have one of these in my junk box. It doesn't use FSK, unfortunately, 
it uses a pulse train.

At 8:29 AM -0800 2002/03/20, greg montalbano wrote:
>I have a vague memory of a Craig Anderton/PAIA kit something along 
>those lines...
>can't find any record of it in my office mess here.
>Anybody else?
>
>At 09:52 AM 3/20/02 -0500, Dave wrote:
>>Hi everyone,
>>
>>I just had a silly idea that may or may not work.  I was wondering if it
>>would be possible to use clock dividers to derive 1/4 1/8 and 1/16 notes
>>from the FSK output of my sequencer.
>>
>>>From my understanding, FSK is simply a pulse wave clock, right?  How many
>>ppqn will it generally have?  I just figure this may be an easy way to
>>"cheat" and avoid using my DIN-Sync convreter to feed my clock dividers.
>>
>>Any ideas?  Googling didn't turn up any good links to the FSK signal specs.
>>  Note that I have regular FSK not "smart FSK" or SMPTE.
>>
>>Thanks in advance
>>
>>Dave Magnuson
>>
>>Resonant Frequency:
>>resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
>>http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html



From greg.montalbano at ucop.edu  Wed Mar 20 19:17:45 2002
From: greg.montalbano at ucop.edu (greg montalbano)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:17:45 -0800
Subject: Fwd: Re: [sdiy] FSK specifications
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020320101410.022e7670@popserv.ucop.edu>


It was the "Master Synchronizer", an Anderton article in Keyboard, Jan & 
Feb 1983,
later made into a Paia Kit.  Basiclly, it accepted a data-stream input 
(usually a sync signal from tape) and output  whole, half, quarter, eight, 
triplet, etc divisions of the master note value.
If you can't find those back issues, let me know & I'll look it up & copy 
it for you.


>I have a vague memory of a Craig Anderton/PAIA kit something along those 
>lines...
>can't find any record of it in my office mess here.
>Anybody else?
>
>At 09:52 AM 3/20/02 -0500, Dave wrote:
>>Hi everyone,
>>
>>I just had a silly idea that may or may not work.  I was wondering if it
>>would be possible to use clock dividers to derive 1/4 1/8 and 1/16 notes
>>from the FSK output of my sequencer.
>>
>> >From my understanding, FSK is simply a pulse wave clock, right?  How many
>>ppqn will it generally have?  I just figure this may be an easy way to
>>"cheat" and avoid using my DIN-Sync convreter to feed my clock dividers.
>>
>>Any ideas?  Googling didn't turn up any good links to the FSK signal specs.
>>  Note that I have regular FSK not "smart FSK" or SMPTE.
>>
>>Thanks in advance
>>
>>Dave Magnuson
>>
>>Resonant Frequency:
>>resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
>>http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html



From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Wed Mar 20 19:22:15 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:22:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
In-Reply-To: <B8BD9BDD.2EB5%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203201313170.13897-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Peter Grenader wrote:

> Don't know if any of you have any been there, but I live in LA and ALL
> Electronics is an interesting place to say the least.  They're the king of
> surplus. I would wager that they don't have a clue about these midi units,
> as they probably bought them by the pound.  I am half-serious about this.

  Back in January while attending NAMM I had a friend drive me to the Van
Nuys store.  The place would be right at home at the Dayton Hamvention.  
I saw a number of nifty items ($3.00 motorized sliders, $1.00 "guess the
Alesis product the PCB came from," etc.)  I rummaged through the boxes of
61 and 76-note Fatar keyboard actions.  All of them were busted in some
fashion, but they didn't seem to mind my building a couple of 'good'
keyboards by sacrificing one of the really banged-up unit's springs and
keys. The 61-note key action is destined for a Prophet-5.  No idea what to
do with the 76-note one yet. (no, not selling it ;)

Crow
/**/



From blacet at blacet.com  Wed Mar 20 20:45:38 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:45:38 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] MN3005 on ebay
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203201313170.13897-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>
Message-ID: <3C98E6E1.B585EBD7@blacet.com>

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1713862570&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1016842187&indexURL=0&rd=1

--
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Mar 20 21:55:16 2002
From: Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk (Lincoln Fong)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:55:16 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80
Message-ID: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFIENICMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>

Thanks to all who knew about this. It does indeed work without the
expression pedal and the reason for Yamaha's caution in their manual was I
presume to prevent momentarily shorting a power supply during jack
insertion. A bit of bad design really, they should have buffered it.

Thanks

Lincoln



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Wed Mar 20 23:18:08 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:18:08 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
Message-ID: <9c.1ce0e6e1.29ca64a0@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/20/02 12:37:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
mclilith at ezwv.com writes:


> I don't think he ever said it was a "flash" PCMCIA card. Maybe it's SRAM
> 

Doubtful...besides, I'm pretty sure that the specs for it mentioned using 
512K of flash internal to the unit, so it would make sense to be using a 
flash add-on as well...and other alesis products use type I flash according 
to people selling the cards for them on ebay.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020320/8e097f2a/attachment.htm>

From jlarryh at iquest.net  Thu Mar 21 00:05:54 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:05:54 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
References: <20020319233656.WHIW7755.out009.verizon.net@mail.lan> <021b01c1cfb0$c1b76560$3da2d03f@gretta> <OE38rvaLa0ySjR4v8k70001b3ba@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1d063$caac1720$06532bd1@oemcomputer>

What I wonder is if the box support sysex since there is only the card for
storage.


----- Original Message -----
From: Alex <alcratin at hotmail.com>
To: DJ Marmalade <djmarmalade at planetp.org>; <music.maker at gte.net>;
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...


Hi All,

I live in Los Angeles and I go to the All Electronics location in Van Nuys
that actually has these units on the shelf.  I can tell you that if you've
ever been to a ham fest or a electronic swap meet, that is basically the
inside of this shop. They also have Alesis keyboard assemblies in a box in
the back of the shop as well. From what I could discern from reading the
manual that they had in plain view was that this was one of the last of the
Nano series, It's a simple Midi Sequence Recorder that uses a PCMCIA card to
store it's memories on. The standard PCMCIA Blank PCMCIA card is sold at any
Mars or GC for about $100.  These units are in Brand New condition still
wrapped in their little plastic baggies in the little boxes. AllElec is a
surplus store, there is a lot of stuff in that store that I'm not sure that
they even knew where it came from.  All in all, it's a neat little find for
those that want to play back MIDI sequences especially handy for those that
still sequence live and don't want to be seen on stage with a laptop.

Oh well, that's my two cents worth, AllElec is a cool bargain hunters
paradise for electronics noodlers like ourselves.  The one cool thing they
do have is a whole bunch of motorized slide and rotarty pots for real cheap
and there's stuff in the store that they don't feature in the catalog.

Later.
Alcratin
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Marmalade" <djmarmalade at planetp.org>
To: <music.maker at gte.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...


> The site did not say they have a software problem, it said "a software
> problem, or something like that".  That indicates to me that all
electronics
> doesn't really know.  It is possible, that the only thing wrong with them
is
> that it is a product that numark wants to just dump and not be bothered
with
> support issues.  By declaring they don't work, they assure that, for the
> most part, the units won't get into the hands of people that don't know
what
> they're doing. The price isn't really that good considering what these
> things sold for new.  I bet they work just fine, or at least as well as
any
> of them ever did.  Even if they do work though, I doubt there's enough
> interface on that thing to make it a really good sequencer.  Keep in mind,
> this is all coming straight out of my ass so wash your hands after reading
> this email and don't bother telling me I don't know what I'm talking
about,
> cause I already know.
>
> daryl
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interesting Midi Box for Parts etc...
>
>
> > Interesting.  Too bad they don't given even a drop of
> > a clue as to just how this "software problem" manifests
> > itself.  There are bugs and then there are BUGS.  If
> > I were wealthy, I'd buy one and critique it for the list.
> > However, if the bug is bad enough, you would be paying
> > $40 for a box and some jacks...
> >
> > Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net> wrote:
> > >Hi Group!
> > >
> > >I saw this and thought y'all might be interested...
> > >
> >
>
>http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=395&item=EX-630
> 3
> > >&type=store
> > >
> > >Cheers!
> > >
> > >Cynthia
> > >
> > >
> >
> > =========================================================
> > - Government: The other religion.
> > - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> > - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
> >
> > -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> > -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> > -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> > -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
> >
> >
>
>




From gatrall at pacbell.net  Thu Mar 21 00:30:04 2002
From: gatrall at pacbell.net (Simon Gatrall)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:30:04 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP box
Message-ID: <v04220802b8becacf8665@[64.172.21.178]>

I saw this on HarmonyCentral - it was just announced at MusikMesse. 
Basically it is an open DSP platform with a nice set of buttons, 
rotary  endcoders and AD/DA converters.  They also will have other 
versions available (rack mount, twin, etc).  They have some sort of 
PC based editor that looks kinda like reaktor et al.  They also have 
a development kit so that you can write your own Motorola 56k DSP 
code.  Looks interesting...

http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse02/Content/DSP_Arts/PR/Tauron.html
http://www.dsparts.com/pro.htm

-s!mon


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 01:07:05 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:07:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
Message-ID: <20020321000705.60449.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Its official: National's DAC1230 has kicked my butt. I
have tried everything I can think of, but the little
bugger still misbehaves. Its like the data lines are
wired backwards or something, but ive re-checked it a
dozen times.

Sigh...

--TR

*********************
When in doubt, drink.
*********************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 01:10:32 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:10:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP box
In-Reply-To: <v04220802b8becacf8665@[64.172.21.178]>
Message-ID: <20020321001032.21840.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>

Oh man, this looks WAY kool!  I've always wanted to do
a DSP that directly models analog synth circuits. This
looks like a great platform for it. 

--TR

--- Simon Gatrall <gatrall at pacbell.net> wrote:
> I saw this on HarmonyCentral - it was just announced
> at MusikMesse. 
> Basically it is an open DSP platform with a nice set
> of buttons, 
> rotary  endcoders and AD/DA converters.  They also
> will have other 
> versions available (rack mount, twin, etc).  They
> have some sort of 
> PC based editor that looks kinda like reaktor et al.
>  They also have 
> a development kit so that you can write your own
> Motorola 56k DSP 
> code.  Looks interesting...
> 
>
http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse02/Content/DSP_Arts/PR/Tauron.html
> http://www.dsparts.com/pro.htm
> 
> -s!mon


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From larry at plexoninc.com  Thu Mar 21 01:44:50 2002
From: larry at plexoninc.com (Larry Spence)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:44:50 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP box
In-Reply-To: <20020321001032.21840.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KBEBIHCDLEGHBAMAJPFMMEKKECAA.larry@plexoninc.com>

Here's another "open music-DSP box":

http://www.soundart-hot.com/

This one seems to be oriented more towards developers than end-users.

Larry


--- Simon Gatrall <gatrall at pacbell.net> wrote:
> I saw this on HarmonyCentral - it was just announced
> at MusikMesse.
> Basically it is an open DSP platform with a nice set
> of buttons,
> rotary  endcoders and AD/DA converters.  They also
> will have other
> versions available (rack mount, twin, etc).  They
> have some sort of
> PC based editor that looks kinda like reaktor et al.
>  They also have
> a development kit so that you can write your own
> Motorola 56k DSP
> code.  Looks interesting...
>
>
http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse02/Content/DSP_Arts/PR/Tauron.htm
l
> http://www.dsparts.com/pro.htm
>
> -s!mon


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards.
http://movies.yahoo.com/



From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Thu Mar 21 05:27:17 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:27:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] FSK specifications
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020320082437.022eb2e0@popserv.ucop.edu>
 <p05100303b8be7a40a43c@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d090$af622f40$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>

Check this out:

http://tritium.fis.unb.br/Fis3Exp/www.tmo.hp.com/tmo/pia/BasicInstrume
nt/TUTnBRIEF/English/BI-B-33120A-040.html

Anyway, all it is is a switching between one frequency and another to
send data.

Now, for audio, I don't quite know how that would work other than that
they would prlly output one frequency for do nothing, and another for
*clock*. That would make sense.

You can decode this using 1 filter actually, that looks for a
particular frequency and outputs a pulse, then you could pump that
into a digital counter, tap off of the appropriate number and loop
that back into the reset of the counter to get your divisions.

Crude, but effective.. IIRC a 4017 counter will do this.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Juskiw" <scott at tellun.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] FSK specifications


> You're thinking about the PAIA 6770 Master Synchronizer designed by
> Craig Anderton (found in Jan/Feb 1983 issues of Keyboard). I still
> have one of these in my junk box. It doesn't use FSK, unfortunately,
> it uses a pulse train.
>
> At 8:29 AM -0800 2002/03/20, greg montalbano wrote:
> >I have a vague memory of a Craig Anderton/PAIA kit something along
> >those lines...
> >can't find any record of it in my office mess here.
> >Anybody else?
> >
> >At 09:52 AM 3/20/02 -0500, Dave wrote:
> >>Hi everyone,
> >>
> >>I just had a silly idea that may or may not work.  I was wondering
if it
> >>would be possible to use clock dividers to derive 1/4 1/8 and 1/16
notes
> >>from the FSK output of my sequencer.
> >>
> >>>From my understanding, FSK is simply a pulse wave clock, right?
How many
> >>ppqn will it generally have?  I just figure this may be an easy
way to
> >>"cheat" and avoid using my DIN-Sync convreter to feed my clock
dividers.
> >>
> >>Any ideas?  Googling didn't turn up any good links to the FSK
signal specs.
> >>  Note that I have regular FSK not "smart FSK" or SMPTE.
> >>
> >>Thanks in advance
> >>
> >>Dave Magnuson
> >>
> >>Resonant Frequency:
> >>resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
> >>http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html
>



From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Mar 21 05:45:09 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:45:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
References: <20020321000705.60449.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C996555.A76ACCFF@silcom.com>

    Tim...I have used the DAC1230 for quite some time.  The only time I
have ever had trouble with it was when I used +5 volts for VCC.  That
was quite a while ago, so, I don't remember what the symptoms were.
When I changed the supply voltage to +15 volts, I do remember that my
problems went away.

    By the way, I am pretty sure that the DAC1230 is no longer made by
national.  Does anybody know if it is made by anybody else?

Tim Ressel wrote:

> Its official: National's DAC1230 has kicked my butt. I
> have tried everything I can think of, but the little
> bugger still misbehaves. Its like the data lines are
> wired backwards or something, but ive re-checked it a
> dozen times.
>
> Sigh...
>
> --TR
>
> *********************
> When in doubt, drink.
> *********************
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
> http://movies.yahoo.com/

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Thu Mar 21 06:31:34 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:31:34 EST
Subject: [sdiy] FSK specifications
Message-ID: <88.158c8dd7.29caca36@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/20/02 6:56:48 AM, resfreq at hoohahrecords.com writes:

<<  Note that I have regular FSK not "smart FSK" or SMPTE. >>

What make and model sequencer is it?



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 07:37:48 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:37:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
In-Reply-To: <3C996555.A76ACCFF@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <20020321063748.22540.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>

Success!  After a bit of futzing with the code, the
DAC is responding nicely!  Whew!

Well THAT took all day. Started at 9am, got 1/4 of the
circuit working at 10:30pm. Its Miller time!

Tomorrow I will get all brave and see if the mux
works. Also I get a reward: tomorrow I'm going to see
Metropolis. yay.

--TR

**********************
When in doubt, whine
at a captive audience.
**********************


--- patchell <patchell at silcom.com> wrote:
>     Tim...I have used the DAC1230 for quite some
> time.  The only time I
> have ever had trouble with it was when I used +5
> volts for VCC.  That
> was quite a while ago, so, I don't remember what the
> symptoms were.
> When I changed the supply voltage to +15 volts, I do
> remember that my
> problems went away.
> 
>     By the way, I am pretty sure that the DAC1230 is
> no longer made by
> national.  Does anybody know if it is made by
> anybody else?
> 
> Tim Ressel wrote:
> 
> > Its official: National's DAC1230 has kicked my
> butt. I
> > have tried everything I can think of, but the
> little
> > bugger still misbehaves. Its like the data lines
> are
> > wired backwards or something, but ive re-checked
> it a
> > dozen times.
> >
> > Sigh...
> >
> > --TR
> >
> > *********************
> > When in doubt, drink.
> > *********************
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy
> Awards?
> > http://movies.yahoo.com/
> 
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a
> year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 09:11:02 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:11:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80
References: <18f.5181526.29c90f64@aol.com> <02d101c1cf9a$abf72aa0$0300000a@exario.net> <3C98A42E.D27C3BAD@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <3C999596.B906C9A9@globalnet.co.uk>

Hello,

Ingo Debus wrote:
 
> > Are you sure that's not just an admonition that the footpedals won't work
> > properly without being connected before power-on? It seems so odd that a
> > synth could be damaged or even work improperly if powered up without
> > footpedals connected.
> 
> It seems odd, but I have an old organ which indeed doesn't work without
> its volume pedal connected. The reason is, believe it or not, the mains
> transformer is in the pedal. I don't know if they did this to make the
> pedal heavier, or to keep the transformer as far away as possible from
> the reverb spring.

I've seen this before on a couple of Yammy synths, a CS70M, I think and one of
the smaller CS jobbies. Infinitely better than those bloody 'wall wart' PSU's.

Regards
   David

-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk




From pgrenader at mksound.com  Thu Mar 21 09:52:39 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:52:39 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP box
In-Reply-To: <20020321001032.21840.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8BEED67.2EEA%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Yes, it looks interesting...although I'll never know (me Mac).  I hope it's
more ironed out than Reaktor which remains, in my humble opinion, a great
idea that it still half baked (not quite there yet).  But if this thing has
it's own on board DSPs, it has probably has overcome 90% of the problems
associated with Native Instruments' offering, like those pesky system
overloads. 

HATE those.


 in on 3/20/02 5:10 PM, Tim Ressel at madhun2001 at yahoo.com wrote:

> Oh man, this looks WAY kool!  I've always wanted to do
> a DSP that directly models analog synth circuits. This
> looks like a great platform for it.
> 
> --TR
> 
> --- Simon Gatrall <gatrall at pacbell.net> wrote:
>> I saw this on HarmonyCentral - it was just announced
>> at MusikMesse. 
>> Basically it is an open DSP platform with a nice set
>> of buttons, 
>> rotary  endcoders and AD/DA converters.  They also
>> will have other 
>> versions available (rack mount, twin, etc).  They
>> have some sort of
>> PC based editor that looks kinda like reaktor et al.
>> They also have 
>> a development kit so that you can write your own
>> Motorola 56k DSP
>> code.  Looks interesting...
>> 
>> 
> http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse02/Content/DSP_Arts/PR/Tauron.html
>> http://www.dsparts.com/pro.htm
>> 
>> -s!mon
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
> http://movies.yahoo.com/




From Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 11:05:45 2002
From: Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk (Lincoln Fong)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:05:45 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
Message-ID: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFMENLCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>


Tim wrote:

>>Success!  After a bit of futzing with the code, the
>>>DAC is responding nicely!  Whew!

>>Well THAT took all day. Started at 9am, got 1/4 of the
>>circuit working at 10:30pm. Its Miller time!

Funny but when I read your previous 'I quit' email my first instinct was to
think of all the times when giving up has immediately preceeded the
essential inspiration.

Lincoln



From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Mar 21 11:07:26 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:07:26
Subject: [sdiy] What is a 
Message-ID: <20020321190740.HJSF2959.out008.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Gate, especially in the context of a FatMan is not a pulse.
It is a logic level.  It is a TTL logical high while a key is 
pressed and a TTL logical low when no key is pressed.

"Jimmy Gogas" <toothpick_77 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>I was wondering if someone can give me an exact explanation aout what a gate 
>is? I know it's a pulse, but what is its width? Does it last as long as the 
>key is pressed, or does it last for a constant amount of time? How about the 
>voltage? I'm currently building a Littleman synth (like a Fatman), and was 
>wondering what the amplitude (voltage) of this pulse is. Does the voltage go 
>back to zero, or does it go to a negative value.
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From mervyn.thomas at astrium-space.com  Thu Mar 21 12:12:18 2002
From: mervyn.thomas at astrium-space.com (THOMAS, Mervyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:12:18 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Any OrCad users on the list ?
Message-ID: <66463840C8FAD51183B500508BAF2AC04F2EB1@mms12034.pth.uk.astrium.corp>

Just got OrCad v9 and am wondering if anyone has any gotchas to watch out
for. I like the look of this package and would like to start using it in
anger.

Also, if anyone's got a library of common synth parts they would be willing
to share it'd save me re-inventing the wheel...  :o)

If you consider this OT then feel free to email me off-list.



Happy trails...


Merv Thomas

...
This email is for the intended addressee only.
If you have received it in error then you must not use, retain, disseminate
or otherwise deal with it.  Please notify the sender by return email.
The views of the author may not necessarily constitute the views of Astrium Limited.
Nothing in this email shall bind Astrium Limited in any contract or obligation.
Astrium Limited
Gunnels Wood Road
Stevenage
Hertfordshire
SG1 2AS


From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Mar 21 11:29:33 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:29:33
Subject: [sdiy] Voltages for various frequencies
Message-ID: <20020321193005.KDXU22801.out007.verizon.net@mail.lan>

If you have 5 pots, you could make each
switch a tunable pitch.  (c:


"Jimmy Gogas" <toothpick_77 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've built some of the modules for my Littleman synth, and was thinking of 
>building a small keyboard interface to test them out. Unfortunately, I still 
>haven't bought my MIDI keyboard and MIDI-to-CV converter yet so I was 
>thinking of using a bunch of momentary push-button switches lying around 
>here. I was thinking of building an extremely simplified version of the 
>Formant keyboard interface... just the resistor-switch ladder circuit and a 
>gate circuit. I only have 5 switches (only 5 pitches). Does anyone know the 
>corresponding input voltages (for the VCO) for the various pitch 
>frequencies? (I just need five)
>
>I would also appreciate it if someone can show me a simple circuit that 
>would be able to implement what I'm trying to accomplish (both the CV and 
>gate circuit).
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From jhaible at debitel.net  Thu Mar 21 12:54:47 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible at debitel.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:54:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re: [sdiy]?= Yamaha CS80
Message-ID: <20020321115734.439.qmail@psmtp2.dnsg.net>

You can indeed get in trouble when you plug the wrong things into Yamaha
CS-synths.

I once plugged a mono cable into the phones output of my CS-50, and
there was a telltale smell of an overheated component. Checked the schemos
and saw that, unlike any other device I've seen before, there was no series
resistor from the HP output amp to the tip and ring connection.

I also tried to use a contemporary Yamaha (!) pedal (FC-7 or FC-9, I don't remember)
into the CS-60 and destroyed the pedal. (Had no time to check what exactly happened).

BUT there is one important point: These synths sound *different* with and without
pedal. This is because the expression pedal is not just a volume pedal; it also
does some filtering (think of "Loudness" correction on old HiFi amplifiers).
And no pedal plugged in is *not* the same as pedal at maximum. At least
it wasn't on my CS-50. I vaguely remember that I have made a correction
in the CS' internal circuit (basically desoldering a capacitor) to fix this
(i.e. to get the "full-pedal" response with no pedal connected), but this
was long ago and I don't have the mod at hand right now. But I'm sure
you will see what I mean when you look at the pedal section in the schematics.

JH.


From studio271 at mail.ev1.net  Thu Mar 21 16:37:15 2002
From: studio271 at mail.ev1.net (studio271)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:37:15 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
Message-ID: <200203210937.AA10682492@mail.ev1.net>

Yeah, we should all give up more often in hopes that we accomplish 
the impossible... Here I come, toe fungi!...

-271


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>Funny but when I read your previous 'I quit' email my first 
instinct was to
>think of all the times when giving up has immediately preceeded 
the
>essential inspiration.
>
>Lincoln
>
>
 

________________________________________________________________
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net


 
                   


From clark at andrews.edu  Thu Mar 21 17:47:51 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:47:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Any OrCad users on the list ?
In-Reply-To: <66463840C8FAD51183B500508BAF2AC04F2EB1@mms12034.pth.uk.astrium.corp>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020321114415.26932A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Just got OrCad v9 and am wondering if anyone has any gotchas to watch out
> for. I like the look of this package and would like to start using it in
> anger.

   Hi Merv,

   I use OrCAD, albiet version 7.  IMHO it is a great package and will 
let you do _a lot_ of neat things.  It has a much better library than 
other cheaper packages (you get what you pay for).

> Also, if anyone's got a library of common synth parts they would be willing
> to share it'd save me re-inventing the wheel...  :o)

   Most of the parts you'll ever need are already included!  The only 
place you may have to tweak anything would be the footprints in Layout 
(although the standard footprints are fine in themselves).
   BTW, it is _very_ easy to make new parts/footprints!  Don't be afraid 
to dive in and try it out!

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Thu Mar 21 17:48:13 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:48:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A68E8@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

or simply short the wires at one end and use ohmmeter to find the other end.
Thats how we do it here with TV coax :)

Roman

""-----Original Message-----
""From: Dean Stiglitz [mailto:deknow at deknow.com]
""Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:54 PM
""To: 'synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl'
""Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house
""
""
""hi all,
""
""my gf's father has a house half gutted, and half wired...the 
""electricians have not come back to finish the job (because 
""they didn't label anything when they laid the wires...they 
""have no idea what wire goes where), and for the same reason, 
""he has been unable to get someone to finish the job.
""
""i was hoping to be able to help him out by at least 
""identifing/labeling the wires in the basement, and where they go.
""
""i've seen some tools ($100+) that do this, but was thinking 
""perhaps instead to do a little diy approach.
""
""anyone done this (or something similar) and have any suggestions???
""
""it seems i could (at the non-basement end) inject a sound 
""source (radio headphone out) into the wires (hot to one wire, 
""and ground to another) and use alagator clips or test probles 
""connected to a speaker to find the terminating end in the basement.
""
""another option seems to be to do a similar thing with a 9v 
""battery and an led.
""
""again, if anyone has any brilliant ideas that would save me 
""time/money/frustration, i'd love to hear them.
""
""deknow
""
""
""---------------------------------------------------------
""This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
""
""Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
""oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
""


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 21 17:50:04 2002
From: Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk (Lincoln Fong)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:50:04 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house
Message-ID: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFIENNCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>

>>it seems i could (at the non-basement end) inject a sound source (radio
headphone out) into the wires (hot to one wire, and >>ground to another) and
use alagator clips or test probles connected to a speaker to find the
terminating end in the basement.

I have been doing this for years with an LED (actually 2 LEDs so you don't
have polarity issues) but have just decided on getting an inductive speaker
probe to save all the messing about. I work in a building where there are so
many data/video/audio cables in the walls that a given cable could lead
almost anywhere, not to just one place.

A while back I got sick of all the running around and got a PIC based kit
made by Maplin (www.maplin.co.uk in the kits section about 20 GBP) which can
identify 8 cores at a time (if you have a single known core) which was quite
good but if you ask me induction is best because you can 'sniff' cables
without connecting to them saving you hours.

Lincoln



From blacet at blacet.com  Thu Mar 21 18:02:19 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:02:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] FS Weller soldering stations
References: <01c1c268$e171bf40$LocalHost@wefwf>
Message-ID: <3C9A121C.3C0AF74B@blacet.com>

Spring cleaning and production line upgrade:

We have two used Weller WLC100; a nice basic PW controlled station,
sells new for $40.

Both work fine, very nice for kit assembly. Plenty of life left;
inexpensive replaceable tips; good for Kester 331/245.

One is newer and prettier! We are selling the PAIR (free spare) for $24
+ $5.20 shipping (US only)

Pay Pal preferred, but VISA.MC OK. No MOs or checks.

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From bobo at decapod.net  Thu Mar 21 18:04:22 2002
From: bobo at decapod.net (Bob Roesler)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:04:22 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house
References: <20020321155914.OMEX1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@dean>
Message-ID: <000a01c1d0fa$73584290$100400c0@killerobot.com>

(Assuming the wires are not connected to power)

Short out the hot and neutrals on one end of the cable (probably at the
destination) and check continuity at the other end. Keep in mind that from
the breaker panel, there will probably be several destinations for each
circuit.

Hope this helps.

bob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Stiglitz" <deknow at deknow.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:54 AM
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house


> hi all,
>
> my gf's father has a house half gutted, and half wired...the electricians
have not come back to finish the job (because they didn't label anything
when they laid the wires...they have no idea what wire goes where), and for
the same reason, he has been unable to get someone to finish the job.
>
> i was hoping to be able to help him out by at least identifing/labeling
the wires in the basement, and where they go.
>
> i've seen some tools ($100+) that do this, but was thinking perhaps
instead to do a little diy approach.
>
> anyone done this (or something similar) and have any suggestions???
>
> it seems i could (at the non-basement end) inject a sound source (radio
headphone out) into the wires (hot to one wire, and ground to another) and
use alagator clips or test probles connected to a speaker to find the
terminating end in the basement.
>
> another option seems to be to do a similar thing with a 9v battery and an
led.
>
> again, if anyone has any brilliant ideas that would save me
time/money/frustration, i'd love to hear them.
>
> deknow
>



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 21 18:32:46 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:32:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house
In-Reply-To: <20020321155914.OMEX1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@dean>
Message-ID: <20020321173246.51502.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>

A cheap way to do one of those 'toner' setups may be
to rig a 555 timer to oscillate at high freq then use
an AM radio to trace the signal. When ya touch the
right wire with the radio antenna it'll get louder. 

Hint: leave the cap off of the 555 (from pin 2 to
gnd); let stray capacitance do the job.

--TR

*******************************
Unless you're the lead Lemming,
the view never changes.
*******************************


--- Dean Stiglitz <deknow at deknow.com> wrote:
> hi all,
> 
> my gf's father has a house half gutted, and half
> wired...the electricians have not come back to
> finish the job (because they didn't label anything
> when they laid the wires...they have no idea what
> wire goes where), and for the same reason, he has
> been unable to get someone to finish the job.
> 
> i was hoping to be able to help him out by at least
> identifing/labeling the wires in the basement, and
> where they go.
> 
> i've seen some tools ($100+) that do this, but was
> thinking perhaps instead to do a little diy
> approach.
> 
> anyone done this (or something similar) and have any
> suggestions???
> 
> it seems i could (at the non-basement end) inject a
> sound source (radio headphone out) into the wires
> (hot to one wire, and ground to another) and use
> alagator clips or test probles connected to a
> speaker to find the terminating end in the basement.
> 
> another option seems to be to do a similar thing
> with a 9v battery and an led.
> 
> again, if anyone has any brilliant ideas that would
> save me time/money/frustration, i'd love to hear
> them.
> 
> deknow


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Mar 21 18:41:39 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:41:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Any OrCad users on the list ?
References: <66463840C8FAD51183B500508BAF2AC04F2EB1@mms12034.pth.uk.astrium.corp>
Message-ID: <3C9A1B52.14F03B4F@silcom.com>

    Been a user of Orcad since version 3 (~1988).  While I do have a love/hate relation
ship with this probram, I still have not found anything I like better.  Although, I have
let my support lapse, I will probably keep using it until it won't run any more.

    All of the schematics on my website have been drawn with Orcad, so you can get an
idea of what they look like.

"THOMAS, Mervyn" wrote:

> Just got OrCad v9 and am wondering if anyone has any gotchas to watch out
> for. I like the look of this package and would like to start using it in
> anger.
>
> Also, if anyone's got a library of common synth parts they would be willing
> to share it'd save me re-inventing the wheel...  :o)
>
> If you consider this OT then feel free to email me off-list.
>
> Happy trails...
>
> Merv Thomas
>
> ...
> This email is for the intended addressee only.
> If you have received it in error then you must not use, retain, disseminate
> or otherwise deal with it.  Please notify the sender by return email.
> The views of the author may not necessarily constitute the views of Astrium Limited.
> Nothing in this email shall bind Astrium Limited in any contract or obligation.
> Astrium Limited
> Gunnels Wood Road
> Stevenage
> Hertfordshire
> SG1 2AS

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From cstecker at umich.edu  Thu Mar 21 19:38:25 2002
From: cstecker at umich.edu (Chris Stecker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:38:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] WTB/WTT: SSM 2020
Message-ID: <200203211838.NAA03577@harumscarum.mr.itd.umich.edu>

Hi all,

I'm in need of 5 SSM 2020 IC's for my Buchla 296.  

Ideally, I'd like to trade with someone in need of any of the curtis chips I 
have:  several each of 3350 (NOS and used), 3360 (used), 3320 (NOS), along 
with a few others (3374 3379 5530 508 381?)

Come payday, however, I could pay for the SSM's with money if no one's 
willing to trade.  

-Chris

-- 


G. Christopher Stecker, Ph.D.                                              
cstecker at umich.edu	/    734-764-5167

Central Systems Laboratory, Kresge Hearing Research Institute                 

University of Michigan Medical Center
1301 East Ann Street / Ann Arbor MI 48109-0506



From deknow at deknow.com  Thu Mar 21 19:54:10 2002
From: deknow at deknow.com (Dean Stiglitz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:54:10 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house
Message-ID: <20020321155914.OMEX1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@dean>

hi all,

my gf's father has a house half gutted, and half wired...the electricians have not come back to finish the job (because they didn't label anything when they laid the wires...they have no idea what wire goes where), and for the same reason, he has been unable to get someone to finish the job.

i was hoping to be able to help him out by at least identifing/labeling the wires in the basement, and where they go.

i've seen some tools ($100+) that do this, but was thinking perhaps instead to do a little diy approach.

anyone done this (or something similar) and have any suggestions???

it seems i could (at the non-basement end) inject a sound source (radio headphone out) into the wires (hot to one wire, and ground to another) and use alagator clips or test probles connected to a speaker to find the terminating end in the basement.

another option seems to be to do a similar thing with a 9v battery and an led.

again, if anyone has any brilliant ideas that would save me time/money/frustration, i'd love to hear them.

deknow


From toothpick_77 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 19:57:10 2002
From: toothpick_77 at hotmail.com (Jimmy Gogas)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:57:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What is a "gate" exactly?
Message-ID: <F210bt7hvvFCorX9B0k00001d99@hotmail.com>

I was wondering if someone can give me an exact explanation aout what a gate 
is? I know it's a pulse, but what is its width? Does it last as long as the 
key is pressed, or does it last for a constant amount of time? How about the 
voltage? I'm currently building a Littleman synth (like a Fatman), and was 
wondering what the amplitude (voltage) of this pulse is. Does the voltage go 
back to zero, or does it go to a negative value.

Thank you in advance.





_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



From toothpick_77 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 21 20:17:20 2002
From: toothpick_77 at hotmail.com (Jimmy Gogas)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:17:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Voltages for various frequencies
Message-ID: <F262ylAQc9v3DrhVRAG00002a6c@hotmail.com>

I've built some of the modules for my Littleman synth, and was thinking of 
building a small keyboard interface to test them out. Unfortunately, I still 
haven't bought my MIDI keyboard and MIDI-to-CV converter yet so I was 
thinking of using a bunch of momentary push-button switches lying around 
here. I was thinking of building an extremely simplified version of the 
Formant keyboard interface... just the resistor-switch ladder circuit and a 
gate circuit. I only have 5 switches (only 5 pitches). Does anyone know the 
corresponding input voltages (for the VCO) for the various pitch 
frequencies? (I just need five)

I would also appreciate it if someone can show me a simple circuit that 
would be able to implement what I'm trying to accomplish (both the CV and 
gate circuit).

Thank you in advance.



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



From blacet at blacet.com  Thu Mar 21 21:30:55 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:30:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Re: FS Weller soldering stations
References: <01c1c268$e171bf40$LocalHost@wefwf> <3C9A121C.3C0AF74B@blacet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A4300.C162EDE4@blacet.com>

Sold!

Thanks for your interest.

BTW, electronics express (.com) seems to have good prices on Weller
units.

--
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From elmystico at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 21 21:39:39 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Magus Ship)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:39:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What is a "gate" exactly?
Message-ID: <E16o9Px-0001OX-00@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

most simply s gate is usually a pulse from 0 - +5V that lasts for the
duration that a key is pressed down.  It is sometimes or usually used in
combination with a trigger which is an instantaneous pulse of +5v that goes
from 0 - +5v and back the moment each key is pressed.  this is useful for
retriggering envelopes and such before the gate has expired.  hope that
helps...
----------
>From: "Jimmy Gogas" <toothpick_77 at hotmail.com>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] What is a "gate" exactly?
>Date: Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 1:57 PM
>

>I was wondering if someone can give me an exact explanation aout what a gate 
>is? I know it's a pulse, but what is its width? Does it last as long as the 
>key is pressed, or does it last for a constant amount of time? How about the 
>voltage? I'm currently building a Littleman synth (like a Fatman), and was 
>wondering what the amplitude (voltage) of this pulse is. Does the voltage go 
>back to zero, or does it go to a negative value.
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
>http://www.hotmail.com
>


From jlarryh at iquest.net  Thu Mar 21 21:53:51 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:53:51 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house
References: <20020321155914.OMEX1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@dean>
Message-ID: <001201c1d11a$82bd8d60$82492bd1@oemcomputer>

I have been there, done that many times. I drew up a schematic of my house
when I installed my emergency generator and transfer switch.  I have two
inexpensive tools I use.  One is a circuit tracer that does just what you
suggested.  It injects a signal on the wire.  One end plugs into an outlet
of the circuit you are trying to trace.  If you are tracing a light fixture,
you need to get a screw in adapter.  The receiver is hand held battery
operated and had a sensitivity control.  You can wave it in front of the
other outlets in the circuit and it will tell you if they are on that same
line.

You get back to the breaker box and it will point out the breaker.  You have
to play with the sensitivity as the signal does try to go back out the
adjacent lines.  But, I usually find if it beeps over 3 breakers, it is the
one in the middle.

I bought this for $29.95 from one of the mail order mags.  I'll try to find
out which one.

I also have from a surplus mag a EMF detector circuit with about 10 LEDs in
a semicircle pattern that is powered from a 9 volt battery 9 volts.  It does
not even have a case. I got it from Marlin Jones or another one of those
surplus type electronic mags.  While it is not so much useful for tracing
circuits, it is great for tracing the path of a wire inside a wall you
cannot see.  Plug something into the outlet and turn it on.  Then, use the
EMF detector to traced the wire away from the box.  I think I paid $4 for
it.

Larry Hendry


----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Stiglitz <deknow at deknow.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 12:54 PM
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house


hi all,

my gf's father has a house half gutted, and half wired...the electricians
have not come back to finish the job (because they didn't label anything
when they laid the wires...they have no idea what wire goes where), and for
the same reason, he has been unable to get someone to finish the job.

i was hoping to be able to help him out by at least identifing/labeling the
wires in the basement, and where they go.

i've seen some tools ($100+) that do this, but was thinking perhaps instead
to do a little diy approach.

anyone done this (or something similar) and have any suggestions???

it seems i could (at the non-basement end) inject a sound source (radio
headphone out) into the wires (hot to one wire, and ground to another) and
use alagator clips or test probles connected to a speaker to find the
terminating end in the basement.

another option seems to be to do a similar thing with a 9v battery and an
led.

again, if anyone has any brilliant ideas that would save me
time/money/frustration, i'd love to hear them.

deknow




From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu Mar 21 22:02:34 2002
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (GothGeek Sysadmin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:02:34 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house
In-Reply-To: <20020321155914.OMEX1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@dean>; from deknow@deknow.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:54:10AM -0800
References: <20020321155914.OMEX1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@dean>
Message-ID: <20020321130234.M31808@moo.sysabend.org>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:54:10AM -0800, Dean Stiglitz wrote:
> hi all,
> 
> my gf's father has a house half gutted, and half wired...the electricians have not come back to finish the job (because they didn't label anything when they laid the wires...they have no idea what wire goes where), and for the same reason, he has been unable to get someone to finish the job.
> 
> i was hoping to be able to help him out by at least identifing/labeling the wires in the basement, and where they go.
> 
> i've seen some tools ($100+) that do this, but was thinking perhaps instead to do a little diy approach.

I use a Fox and Hound setup.  This is a small tone generator and a pickup
that looks like a logic probe with a speaker.  Last one I got was $50 and
should be available from any good electronics supply house.

I also use this for tracing wires thru wiring bundles inside equipment when
I dont want to unlace everything.

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Mar 22 00:52:54 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:52:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] Re: FS Weller soldering stations
References: <01c1c268$e171bf40$LocalHost@wefwf> <3C9A121C.3C0AF74B@blacet.com> <3C9A4300.C162EDE4@blacet.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c1d133$854ae5a0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Those in Europe should check with Conrad for the Voltcraft  LS50 solder
station.
A good regulated uC regulated system for less than a Weller magnastat :)

I got both, Weller TWCP and the Voltcraft LS50.
Weller is undoubtly better in quality with nice touches like a heat
resistant (silicon) cord to the iron.
However the Voltcraft has programmable temperatures to offer and is much
cheaper.
(with the Weller you have to change the "tip" when you want to change
temperature, not fun when hot)

When working on (smd) components I still use my trusted Weller.
But when working on cables, connectors (jacks) or anything else where the
temperature or power I need varies the Voltcraft is now my favorite.

If you are looking for a good all-round solder station, you should give the
Voltcraft a serious look.
The cheapest Weller with comparable features will cost you 5 to 7 times more
than the Voltcraft.
Highly recommended!

Theo


From: John Blacet <blacet at blacet.com>

> Sold!
>
> Thanks for your interest.
>
> BTW, electronics express (.com) seems to have good prices on Weller
> units.
>




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 01:07:22 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Midi2cv Project Update
Message-ID: <20020322000722.22111.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Well, some good news for a change. My little midi2cv
board is putting out signals on all 8 mux channels,
and doing it using timer interrupts. No small feat,
let me tell you. Getting the IRQs to operate involved
finding an obscure app note from Motorola which sed I
had to clear a status register, one which comes up
cleared on reset, but has to be cleared anyway.

Despite that and random visits from ex-wife, the thing
is working. Not for the trivial task of reading,
decoding, and applying midi messages. Piece of pie!

--TR

****************************************
Remember: There is no spoon. Use a fork.
****************************************



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From jpont at stat.ksu.edu  Fri Mar 22 01:18:55 2002
From: jpont at stat.ksu.edu (Jeffrey Pontius)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:18:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [sdiy] physical layout of npn and pnp transistors
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1020321181233.25871B-100000@bastet.stat.ksu.edu>

(1) Is there a standard in the physical external layout of npn and pnp
transistors (the 3 legged guys)?
In particular, are E,B,C always oriented the same relative to the flat
side of the transistor?  I'd guess E and C would be on opposite sides for
npn and pnp?

(2) In some data sheets or packaging of transistors, sometimes there are
two views of the transistor.  One is from the side - is this viewing the
flat side of the transistor?  The second view is top or bottom. which is
it?


Thanks, Jeff



From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Mar 22 02:05:02 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:05:02 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] physical layout of npn and pnp transistors
References: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1020321181233.25871B-100000@bastet.stat.ksu.edu>
Message-ID: <3C9A833D.2EC21F7A@silcom.com>



Jeffrey Pontius wrote:

> (1) Is there a standard in the physical external layout of npn and pnp
> transistors (the 3 legged guys)?
> In particular, are E,B,C always oriented the same relative to the flat
> side of the transistor?  I'd guess E and C would be on opposite sides for
> npn and pnp?

    Transistor packages are equal, regardless of sex.  The arangement of the
Emitter, Base, and Collector are more a function of the particular transistor
type. And even then, watch out.  In my collection of parts, I have 2n3704's
in TO92 packages that are both EBC and ECB pinouts...which sure makes things
really convenient.

>
>
> (2) In some data sheets or packaging of transistors, sometimes there are
> two views of the transistor.  One is from the side - is this viewing the
> flat side of the transistor?  The second view is top or bottom. which is
> it?

    You have to really look at the drawing very carefully.  Hopefully, you
will find a note somewhere that specifies if it is top or bottom view.  There
is no standard.  My guess is though on the side view, in general, you will be
viewing the flat side.  If the lines in the drawing are solid that indicate
the flat, that means you are looking at the flat surface.  If they are dashed
(hidden), you are looking at the round side....

    Hope this helps, some...

>
>
> Thanks, Jeff

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Fri Mar 22 02:20:53 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:20:53 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
In-Reply-To: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFMENLCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFMENLCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020322.022053.71088426.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Lincoln Fong" <Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:05:45 -0000

> 
> Tim wrote:
> 
> >>Success!  After a bit of futzing with the code, the
> >>>DAC is responding nicely!  Whew!
> 
> >>Well THAT took all day. Started at 9am, got 1/4 of the
> >>circuit working at 10:30pm. Its Miller time!
> 
> Funny but when I read your previous 'I quit' email my first instinct was to
> think of all the times when giving up has immediately preceeded the
> essential inspiration.

Actually, sometimes you have this thing as franticlly running around
screaming that you can't fix it... explaining it to a colleage and
saying and this and this do not work either when I do this, but this
did, but that is not relevant since... OUPS! I haven't tried that,
have I? <running back to lab> Phew.. got it! Sorry!

Lesson? When explaining a problem to someone else who is not involved,
you are more carefull about the details than you are to yourself or an
involved fellow colleague. Since the devil is in the details, the
added precission migth be just what you need. Conversly, one can help
someone by just being there listening to them. You migth have the
worst of headaches, be totally wacked etc, but being there and trying
to listen just do the trick.

Cheers,
Magnus - have passively solved many things, not to my credit


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Mar 22 04:50:45 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:50:45 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
References: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFMENLCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk> <20020322.022053.71088426.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3C9AAA14.82EF14F2@prodigy.net>

Probably the harders thing to do is troubleshoot alone...  More brains make
light work....

H^) harry

Magnus Danielson wrote:

> From: "Lincoln Fong" <Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:05:45 -0000
>
> >
> > Tim wrote:
> >
> > >>Success!  After a bit of futzing with the code, the
> > >>>DAC is responding nicely!  Whew!
> >
> > >>Well THAT took all day. Started at 9am, got 1/4 of the
> > >>circuit working at 10:30pm. Its Miller time!
> >
> > Funny but when I read your previous 'I quit' email my first instinct was to
> > think of all the times when giving up has immediately preceeded the
> > essential inspiration.
>
> Actually, sometimes you have this thing as franticlly running around
> screaming that you can't fix it... explaining it to a colleage and
> saying and this and this do not work either when I do this, but this
> did, but that is not relevant since... OUPS! I haven't tried that,
> have I? <running back to lab> Phew.. got it! Sorry!
>
> Lesson? When explaining a problem to someone else who is not involved,
> you are more carefull about the details than you are to yourself or an
> involved fellow colleague. Since the devil is in the details, the
> added precission migth be just what you need. Conversly, one can help
> someone by just being there listening to them. You migth have the
> worst of headaches, be totally wacked etc, but being there and trying
> to listen just do the trick.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus - have passively solved many things, not to my credit

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From mclilith at ezwv.com  Fri Mar 22 06:24:47 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:24:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
In-Reply-To: <3C9AAA14.82EF14F2@prodigy.net>
References: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFMENLCMAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
 <20020322.022053.71088426.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020322000900.01b24220@mail.ezwv.com>

At 10:50 PM 3/21/02 , harry wrote:
>Probably the harders thing to do is troubleshoot alone...  More brains make
>light work....
>
>H^) harry

Actually that only applies if the other brains are at least as functional as
your own.  :)

One of the most irritating things for me, is to work around someone who knows
absolutely nothing about the device I'm servicing, and insists on telling me
how I should go about my troubleshooting. I know some people like that, and
some of them actually get visibly irritated if you don't seem to be taking
their unsolicited advice seriously. Sometimes, it really is better to work
alone.

I should add that this mailing list is about as far from that situation as one
can get. There are a lot of smart and helpful people here. It's just too bad
that most of us live so far apart from each other. It would be interesting to
see all of us in the same room at once.


Later,
Glen




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar 22 07:03:46 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:03:46 EST
Subject: [sdiy] ot: tracing power cables in a house
Message-ID: <18c.538e573.29cc2342@aol.com>

I've done a bit of this with phone wiring rather than power cables, when I 
was installing a phone switch for somebody, though it would work ok if the 
power was shut off at the main breaker

I took a standard pair of headphones and plugged them into a jack with 
alligator clips attached, then hooked up a portable CD player with a digital 
hardcore CD in it at the phone switch end and turned the volume up. One side 
of the headphones to ground and the other side to the wire the signal might 
be on.

-Chris

In a message dated 3/21/02 2:53:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jlarryh at iquest.net writes:


> 
> I have been there, done that many times. I drew up a schematic of my house
> when I installed my emergency generator and transfer switch.  I have two
> inexpensive tools I use.  One is a circuit tracer that does just what you
> suggested.  It injects a signal on the wire.  One end plugs into an outlet
> of the circuit you are trying to trace.  If you are tracing a light fixture,
> you need to get a screw in adapter.  The receiver is hand held battery
> operated and had a sensitivity control.  You can wave it in front of the
> other outlets in the circuit and it will tell you if they are on that same
> 


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020322/27236711/attachment.htm>

From atom at suspicious.org  Fri Mar 22 07:51:40 2002
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:51:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

this law would put a digital cop in every sampler, synth, drum
machine, digital recorder, etc....
because they *COULD* be used to make an unauthorized copy of copyrighted
material.

http://anti-dmca.org/


        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"Government is not the solution to our problem,
	 government is the problem."
		-- Ronald Reagan
		Inaugural Address, 20 Jan 1981


---------- Forwarded message ----------

Submit comments regarding the SSSCA here:
http://judiciary.senate.gov/special/input_form.cfm?comments=1

Send them IN!

Here is a reminder of what the SSSCA really is:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:55:51 -0400
From: Ronald L. Rivest <rivest at mit.edu>
To: cryptography at wasabisystems.com, farber at cis.upenn.edu
Subject: SSSCA = Digital Rectal Thermometer Security Act ?

Hi all --

I just sat down and read the proposed text of the Holling's SSSCA bill.
         http://cryptome.org/sssca.htm
Boy is this bill breathtaking in its breadth! I have tried to understand
its language.  It says in Section 101:

     "It is unlawful to manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide
or otherwise traffic in any interactive digital device that does not
include and utilize certified security technologies that adhere to
the security systems standards adopted under section 104."

and says in Section 109:

         "The term "interactive digital device" means any machine, device,
product, software, or technology, whether or not included with or as
part of some other machine, device, product, software, or technology,
that is designed, marketed or used for the primary purpose of, and
that is capable of, storing, retrieving, processing, performing,
transmitting, receiving, or copying information in digital form."

Putting 2+2 together, we see that essentially all digital devices and
software will have to have "certified security technologies" in them.
Anything that works primarily with digital data is covered.

My feeble brain came up with the following list of things that would
have to be secured.  I'm sure you can think of lots more.
         -- All bar-code scanners
         -- All computer-controlled ignition systems
         -- All metro ticket readers
         -- All digital watches and calculators
         -- All ATM machines
         -- All digital cellular phones
         -- All digital answering machines
         -- All GPS receivers
         -- All sports scoreboards and the marquee signs in Times Square
         -- All electronic parking meters
         -- Almost all lab equipment (everything is digital these days)
         -- All software, for sure
         -- All digital cameras and digital movie cameras
         -- All PC's and game consoles
         -- All remote key-entry systems and most home security systems
         -- All stop-light controllers
Well, I should leave some of the fun to you. But of course
my favorite should be listed:
         -- All digital rectal thermometers

Presumably some staffers will try to rescue this
laughable (albeit a bit scary) lobbyist-written proposal.
Of course, just letting the bill die is probably best.  But if
they want to fix things, they should consider adding language
that makes it ILLEGAL to sell copy-protection technology
that doesn't permit at least

         -- fair use, including time-shifting and making a reasonable
           number of copies for personal or educational use, or
           for backups,

         -- free use of a copyrighted item once the copyright has
           expired

(This list should be expanded.)

But in any case, making any security technology *mandatory* on all
digital devices and computers is clearly a non-starter.  Why, we'd probably
have to close down all the country's computer science departments
(can't have these kids making unsecured devices, you know, even if
it is their homework assignment to build a computer...)

         Cheers,
         Ron Rivest














Ronald L. Rivest
Room 324, 200 Technology Square, Cambridge MA 02139
Tel 617-253-5880, Fax 617-258-9738, Email <rivest at mit.edu>

_______________________________________________


------------------------
http://www.anti-dmca.org
------------------------

DMCA_Discuss mailing list
DMCA_Discuss at lists.microshaft.org
http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss

----- End forwarded message -----




From dave.brown at uk.thalesgroup.com  Fri Mar 22 08:11:42 2002
From: dave.brown at uk.thalesgroup.com (Brown David)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:11:42 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe sdiy
Message-ID: <41DD7618430DD411870400D0B746EDEDB72079@mail.tms-ltd.com>

unsubscribe sdiy

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify Thales Underwater Systems on +44 1963
370 551. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
distribute its contents to any other person.


From dave.brown at uk.thalesgroup.com  Fri Mar 22 08:18:06 2002
From: dave.brown at uk.thalesgroup.com (Brown David)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:18:06 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe synth-diy
Message-ID: <41DD7618430DD411870400D0B746EDEDB7207A@mail.tms-ltd.com>

unsubscribe synth-diy

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify Thales Underwater Systems on +44 1963
370 551. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
distribute its contents to any other person.


From musetrap at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 22 08:42:04 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:42:04 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] CV pedal for Filter Factory
References: <20020322000722.22111.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9AE04C.E733627D@earthlink.net>

Hi Folks,
    How do I make a simple CV circuit for use in a footpedal?  Do I need
some kind of active circuitry, like a buffer amp, or can I get away with
just a pot and a voltage source?  I've already got an empty footpedal
shell and would like to run the whole thing off a 9V battery if
possible.  The Filter Factory has a CV input for the filter frequency,
and gives no specs other than that it's 1V/oct.  Thanks.

Regards,
Joe Kramer



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar 22 11:20:01 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 05:20:01 EST
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
Message-ID: <5a.88bd90c.29cc5f51@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/22/02 1:54:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
atom at suspicious.org writes:


> this law would put a digital cop in every sampler, synth, drum
> machine, digital recorder, etc....
> because they *COULD* be used to make an unauthorized copy of copyrighted
> material.
> 
> http://anti-dmca.org/
> 
<rant>

Yes...The law sucks, in fact it *really* sucks....There are serious concerns 
being raised by lawmakers fortunately, but I think in the end it will come 
down to who can wield the most political influence in washington, and we all 
know money talks in the US, probably more so than most other places. Somehow 
I get the feeling that people like the membership of the list will be 
defeating said protection schemes as quickly as they can be implemented. If 
it interferes with people trying to get work done, they will find a way 
around it, and theres another whole crowd that will crack it just because 
they can. It'll probably result in US and non-US versions of each product, 
and it shouldn't be too hard to convert them over (or just import the non-US 
versions on the sly, like they do with radio scanners now.) In scanners, 
often it's a code keyed in on front panel keys..employees of various gear 
manufacturers who don't agree with these sorts of policies will undoubtedly 
leak such info anonymously (can anybody say freemail account?) just as they 
have with scanners. Once it's on the web it'll stay there, since US laws 
can't do jack-schidt to non-US servers, and google and friends cache 
everything anyhow. It's already happened with CD copy-protection and CD and 
DVD players with SDMI inside, they've been hacked right and left and there's 
entire websites devoted to the topic. There's literally teams of people going 
around finding any player they can with this technology and hacking it. This 
SSSCA stuff is also supposed to make open source software illegal (presumably 
because many aspects of creating said software require reverse engineering, I 
haven't really read much on that topic). We all know what effect that'll have 
on open source community, ever walk up to a beehive and kick it hard? Mirror 
sites right and left, and a 10-fold increase in reverse engineering activity 
simply as a big fuck-you to the companies backing laws like these and the 
legislators either too corrupt and in the pocket of special interests or too 
uninformed not to pass this sort of horseshit. The wrath of the geeks, so to 
speak. This is the root of the problem, of course, that money talks in 
politics, large corporations are well-connected to legislators, and most of 
the people making the laws are non-technical and wouldn't understand the 
technology or the ramifications of trying to regulate it with legislation if 
you hit them over the head with it....

</rant>

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020322/89c4e60d/attachment.htm>

From CHoaglin at aol.com  Fri Mar 22 11:33:09 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 05:33:09 EST
Subject: [sdiy] FSK specifications
Message-ID: <183.582cb8f.29cc6265@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/20/02 11:21:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
cyborgzero at comcast.net writes:


> You can decode this using 1 filter actually, that looks for a
> particular frequency and outputs a pulse, then you could pump that
> into a digital counter, tap off of the appropriate number and loop
> that back into the reset of the counter to get your divisions.
> 
> 

Or use an FSK decoder chip...They should be very inexpensive and easily 
available, since every device with Caller ID uses one.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020322/9cf9be0e/attachment.htm>

From debus at cityweb.de  Fri Mar 22 15:50:39 2002
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:50:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80
References: <20020321115734.439.qmail@psmtp2.dnsg.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B44BE.5923856E@cityweb.de>



jhaible at debitel.net wrote:
> I also tried to use a contemporary Yamaha (!) pedal (FC-7 or FC-9, I don't remember)
> into the CS-60 and destroyed the pedal. (Had no time to check what exactly happened).

Tip and ring swapped perhaps? The Yamaha expression pedal jacks I know
(DX7 for instance) have pedal potentiometer end at the tip and wiper at
the ring. Maybe on the older devices it's the other way round (hence the
warning not to plug anything in while the synth is powered up)? A
potentiometer gets easily fried when a voltage source is connected
between one end and wiper, if the wiper gets close enough to that end.

I like the Roland style better, with wiper to the tip, and a
short-circuit proof power supply at the ring. Instead of an expression
pedal you can plug in a foot switch with mono plug (shorting the power supply).

Ingo




From jhaible at debitel.net  Fri Mar 22 17:12:21 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha CS80
References: <20020321115734.439.qmail@psmtp2.dnsg.net> <3C9B44BE.5923856E@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <001f01c1d1bc$5a6c7a40$8278b9d9@debitel.net>

> jhaible at debitel.net wrote:
> > I also tried to use a contemporary Yamaha (!) pedal (FC-7 or FC-9, I
don't remember)
> > into the CS-60 and destroyed the pedal. (Had no time to check what
exactly happened).
>
> Tip and ring swapped perhaps?

No. I had checked *that* before.

I suspect it's just the lack of current limiting resistors (for incandescent
lamps
rather than LEDs), so a short during live insertion is not forgiven.
But I have not checked this further, thrown the pedal away (not for good,
but for more than a year now).

JH.




From greg.montalbano at ucop.edu  Fri Mar 22 20:07:43 2002
From: greg.montalbano at ucop.edu (greg montalbano)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:07:43 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] LM 317 regulators
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322110530.022daec0@popserv.ucop.edu>

Hello --
I would be curious to hear people's experience with LM 317 adjustable 
regulators -- specifically, instances of intermittent fault or breakdown in
parts approaching the 20 year mark.

Thanks, eh?

~GMM



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 22 22:48:19 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:48:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] LM 317 regulators
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322110530.022daec0@popserv.ucop.edu>
Message-ID: <20020322214819.39587.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

No direct experience with that part, but I can give
you some general knowledge about reliability.

HP (my former employer) did a 10-year study on
reliability and how to improve it. their goal was a
10x improvement in reliability.

They found that the most important factor was the
derating of semi ratings. For example: If a 16V cap is
used in a 15V circuit, it will not have very good
reliability. If a 35V cap is used, it will have way
better reliability.

HP's overall spec is to derate values by 50% whenever
possible. Now in your case, keep in mind the #1 enemy
of semis is heat. So if your regulators are running at
the top of their specs and/or have marginal heat
sinks, then that could be the whole problem right
there.

Also keep in mind semis fail. 20 years for a 1A
regulator doesn't seem bad to me.

--TR

*********************************
When in trouble or in doubt,
run in citcles, scream and drink!
*********************************

--- greg montalbano <greg.montalbano at ucop.edu> wrote:
> Hello --
> I would be curious to hear people's experience with
> LM 317 adjustable 
> regulators -- specifically, instances of
> intermittent fault or breakdown in
> parts approaching the 20 year mark.
> 
> Thanks, eh?
> 
> ~GMM
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From musetrap at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 22 23:41:30 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:41:30 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] LM 317 regulators
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322110530.022daec0@popserv.ucop.edu>
Message-ID: <3C9BB31A.E3310CF9@earthlink.net>

Dear Greg,
    I've had exactly one 317 fail on me, in a power supply for effects pedals.
The part was probably around ten years old.  There was no ceremony, no smoke,
it just quit.  My experience is that 99% of failures in gear are
mechanical--switches, pots, jacks, wires.  I guess that regulator was my 1%.
Nevertheless, I was actually a litle surprised when it happened.

Regards,
Joe Kramer


greg montalbano wrote:

> Hello --
> I would be curious to hear people's experience with LM 317 adjustable
> regulators -- specifically, instances of intermittent fault or breakdown in
> parts approaching the 20 year mark.
>
> Thanks, eh?
>
> ~GMM





From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Fri Mar 22 23:41:34 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (oleavitt at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:41:34 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] LM 317 regulators
Message-ID: <Springmail.0994.1016836894.0.72454100@webmail.pas.earthlink.net>

I have a multi-output bench power supply that I built about 20 years ago using an LM317 and a few other 78xx, 79xx regulators for fixed outputs.
It still works like new.
I have had no instances of failures or malfunctioning with 3-terminal regulators in that time. Then again, I don't use them that much - perfering LM723 based regulators for critical applications.

The ICs are mounted on an oversized heatsink and have never gotten hot. The unregulated voltage input to the ICs is about 30 volts from ground to the IC's input.
  
Generally, keeping semiconductors (and other parts) cool, free of dust/debris/contamination, and running them well within their rated maximums contributes to long life and reliabilty.

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:07:43 -0800 greg montalbano <greg.montalbano at ucop.edu> wrote:

Hello --
I would be curious to hear people's experience with LM 317 adjustable 
regulators -- specifically, instances of intermittent fault or breakdown in
parts approaching the 20 year mark.

Thanks, eh?

~GMM



From pinknoiz at pinknoiz.com  Fri Mar 22 23:43:27 2002
From: pinknoiz at pinknoiz.com (Bob Gonsalves)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:43:27 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] EDN DESIGN IDEAS for 22 Mar 2002
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c163ef49c2@[10.0.1.2]>


For the complete Design Ideas section in PDF format, go to
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1990.12.910807891

Circuit adds programmability to sensor amplifier
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1990.13.910807891

Add CAD functions to Microsoft Office
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1990.14.910807891

Single IC forms pseudorandom-noise source
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1990.15.910807891

LED dimmer uses only two lines
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1990.16.910807891

Circuit generates fan-speed control
http://article.EDNMag.com/UM/T.ASP?A5.12.1990.17.910807891



From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Sat Mar 23 00:01:49 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:01:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <5a.88bd90c.29cc5f51@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d1f5$8cc99b60$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>



> In a message dated 3/22/02 1:54:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> atom at suspicious.org writes:
>
>
> > this law would put a digital cop in every sampler, synth, drum
> > machine, digital recorder, etc....
> > because they *COULD* be used to make an unauthorized copy of
copyrighted
> > material.
> >
> > http://anti-dmca.org/
> >
> <rant>
>
We all know what effect that'll have
> on open source community, ever walk up to a beehive and kick it
hard?

Well, the problem really lies in the fact that, once this legislation
is started, it *could* also strongarm the higher learning facilities
and begin to dictate that which is taught in technology ie there
*could* be technical and progging books that end up having Stalinesque
*black outs* in them because learning about those sorts of things
could lead to someone learning how to breach security of these units.
Somewhat similiar to the kiddie porn law, where ppl who have pictures
of their baby children on their PC are hauled away as perverts with
the the materials as proof of the acts.

BTW, if you really really hate someone, all you have to do is call the
FBI and Child Services on them these days. I hear the FBI doesn't like
to be wrong, if you know what I mean. ;)

>This is the root of the problem, of course, that money talks in
> politics, large corporations are well-connected to legislators, and
most of
> the people making the laws are non-technical and wouldn't understand
the
> technology or the ramifications of trying to regulate it with
legislation if
> you hit them over the head with it

Well, show me a politician who doesn't have a brother or sister who is
a dope addict/mental case/criminal, and I will show you a female
Moslem Pope. ;)  Bird(brains) of a feather....

Rob



From gatrall at pacbell.net  Sat Mar 23 00:19:27 2002
From: gatrall at pacbell.net (Simon Gatrall)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:19:27 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <v04220803b8c16991cee5@[64.172.21.178]>

>this law would put a digital cop in every sampler, synth, drum
>machine, digital recorder, etc....
>because they *COULD* be used to make an unauthorized copy of copyrighted
>material.
>
>http://anti-dmca.org/

<political rant>

As a member of the MIDI Manufacturers Association, I have already 
written to the MMA president to point out the fact that the CBDTPA 
could be used against anything that plays MIDI, samplers, or digital 
multitrack recorders.  He's already aware of the issue and is passing 
it on to other MMA members.

I know that the RIAA has repeatedly gone after sites that host 
illegal MIDI files of pop songs, so I'm sure they would be happy to 
make it impossible to play unlicensed MIDI files on your synth.

Be very, very scared of this kind of control.  Because of the DCMA, 
which is already a law, you could be put in jail for 5 years if you 
"reverse engineer or circumvent" the copyright control mechanism that 
they are proposing.  That's right, you could get the same penalties 
as a rapist.

The most confusing part about this is that most of the senators 
sponsoring this bill are Democrats.  Of course they are getting money 
from the RIAA and the MPAA.

</political rant>

Maybe this is another reason to drop all this digital technology and 
go exclusively analog. :)

-s!mon


From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Sat Mar 23 00:42:34 2002
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:42:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] List Archives?  and CA 3080 Question?
Message-ID: <B8C10F7A.3347%cynthia.webster@gte.net>

Hi List!

Is there any kind of archive for all the information presented here day
after day?

If so, could someone please show me how to access the info?

I remember recently reading about the classic
CA 3080 "Voltage Control Anything you want" op Amp... and seem to remember
someone suggesting that there is now a more modern replacement for it
(like a 3880, or a 3280)??

I'm wondering what the new part is, where to get it, and if I should just
stick to the classic - or plug the new ones right into my PC Boards?
Are the directly replaceable? and what might be the advantages?

I apologize in advance, because I have a feeling that this subject must
surely have been beaten to death by now - LOL!

Kind Regards,

Cynthia 



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 23 00:43:51 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:43:51 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020322000900.01b24220@mail.ezwv.com>
References: <20020322.022053.71088426.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<3C9AAA14.82EF14F2@prodigy.net>
	<4.1.20020322000900.01b24220@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <20020323.004351.41631131.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Glen <mclilith at ezwv.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:24:47 -0500

> At 10:50 PM 3/21/02 , harry wrote:
> >Probably the harders thing to do is troubleshoot alone...  More brains make
> >light work....
> >
> >H^) harry
> 
> Actually that only applies if the other brains are at least as functional as
> your own.  :)

Well, not necessarilly. That person could be just incredibly slow, and
it still works! That is, naturally, that you only operate in
talk->listen/nod/ask stupid question to get clearer explanation mode.

> One of the most irritating things for me, is to work around someone who knows
> absolutely nothing about the device I'm servicing, and insists on telling me
> how I should go about my troubleshooting. I know some people like that, and
> some of them actually get visibly irritated if you don't seem to be taking
> their unsolicited advice seriously. Sometimes, it really is better to work
> alone.

Indeed. There is constructive and destructive ways of doing the
backseat driving. I've seen people that is pretty smart, which is
really terrible as backseat drivers. You should try out different
people, and select which is allowed "in" when you have troubles. One
must give people a few shots thought.

> I should add that this mailing list is about as far from that situation as one
> can get. There are a lot of smart and helpful people here. It's just too bad
> that most of us live so far apart from each other. It would be interesting to
> see all of us in the same room at once.

Indeed, indeed. However, it would be a terrible mess in the end.

Cheers,
Magnus


From jslandau at engin.umich.edu  Sat Mar 23 01:34:05 2002
From: jslandau at engin.umich.edu (Josh Landau)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:34:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: DMCA's successor, SSSCA, renamed to CBDTPA
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020322193309.02dfe0a8@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>

I don't normally forward things like this to the list, but...

This should put the CBDPTA into perspective.

>From: Declan McCullagh <declan at well.com>
>To: politech at politechbot.com
>Subject: FC: Forget MP3 players: Hollings' CBDTPA regulates software too
>X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/
>
>As a bonus, here's a section-by-section summary of the bill:
>http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51275,00.html
>
>And a collection of info on the Consumer Broadband and Digital
>Television Promotion Act (CBDTPA):
>http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cbdtpa/
>
>-Declan
>
>---
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html
>
>    Anti-Copy Bill Slams Coders
>    By Declan McCullagh (declan at wired.com)
>
>    1:25 p.m. March 22, 2002 PST
>    WASHINGTON -- America's programmers, engineers and sundry bit-heads
>    have not yet figured out how much a new copyright bill will affect
>    their livelihood.
>
>    When they do, watch for an angry Million Geek March to storm Capitol
>    Hill.
>
>    A bill introduced this week by Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-South Carolina)
>    would roil the electronics industry by forcibly embedding copy
>    protection into all digital devices, from MP3 players to cell phones,
>    fax machines, digital cameras and personal computers.
>
>    But the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act
>    (CBDTPA) would also wreak havoc on programmers and software companies
>    -- both those distributing code for free and those selling it.
>
>    No more than two years and seven months after the bill becomes law,
>    the only code programmers and software firms will be able to
>    distribute must have embedded copy-protection schemes approved by the
>    federal government.
>
>    To put this in perspective: The CBDTPA would, if enacted in its
>    current form, have the electrifying effect on computer professionals
>    that the Supreme Court's decision in Bush v. Gore did to some
>    Democratic Party members.
>
>    Legal experts said on Friday that the CBDTPA regulates nearly any
>    program, in source or object code, that runs on a PC or anything else
>    with a microprocessor.
>
>    That's not just Windows media players and their brethren, as you might
>    expect. The CBDTPA's sweeping definition of "any hardware or software"
>    includes word processors, spreadsheets, operating systems, compilers,
>    programming languages -- all the way down to humble Unix utilities
>    like "cp" and "cat."
>
>    "The definition will cover just about anything that runs on your
>    computer -- except maybe the clock," said Tom Bell, a professor at
>    Chapman University School of Law who teaches intellectual property
>    law.
>
>    [...]
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list
>You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice.
>Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/
>To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html
>This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------



From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar 23 02:04:52 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:04:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org> <v04220803b8c16991cee5@[64.172.21.178]>
Message-ID: <3C9BD4B4.9050507@addcom.de>

Democrats support this because it is supposed to help artists. How much 
do you think the sales of CDs have suffered since CD burners became 
affordable? EMI is dropping most of their roster as of this week, and 
that's what they blame. I guess since I own a record label I should 
worry about this. Of course mine only puts out vinyl. I'm worried about 
the Final Scratch!

mark verbos





Simon Gatrall wrote:

>> this law would put a digital cop in every sampler, synth, drum
>> machine, digital recorder, etc....
>> because they *COULD* be used to make an unauthorized copy of copyrighted
>> material.
>>
>> http://anti-dmca.org/
>
>
> <political rant>
>
> As a member of the MIDI Manufacturers Association, I have already 
> written to the MMA president to point out the fact that the CBDTPA 
> could be used against anything that plays MIDI, samplers, or digital 
> multitrack recorders.  He's already aware of the issue and is passing 
> it on to other MMA members.
>
> I know that the RIAA has repeatedly gone after sites that host illegal 
> MIDI files of pop songs, so I'm sure they would be happy to make it 
> impossible to play unlicensed MIDI files on your synth.
>
> Be very, very scared of this kind of control.  Because of the DCMA, 
> which is already a law, you could be put in jail for 5 years if you 
> "reverse engineer or circumvent" the copyright control mechanism that 
> they are proposing.  That's right, you could get the same penalties as 
> a rapist.
>
> The most confusing part about this is that most of the senators 
> sponsoring this bill are Democrats.  Of course they are getting money 
> from the RIAA and the MPAA.
>
> </political rant>
>
> Maybe this is another reason to drop all this digital technology and 
> go exclusively analog. :)
>
> -s!mon
>




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 02:05:40 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:05:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] List Archives?  and CA 3080 Question?
In-Reply-To: <B8C10F7A.3347%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20020323010540.70466.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

The 3280 is a dual 3080 with improvements. Then there
are the national Semiconductor LM13700/13800. Haven't
used them, but newer, so better?

Or you could use 3 transistors and a regular opamp and
make your own VCA.

--TR

*********************************
Bows to the lady, propeller
beanie doesn't fall off this time
*********************************

--- Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net> wrote:
> Hi List!
> 
> Is there any kind of archive for all the information
> presented here day
> after day?
> 
> If so, could someone please show me how to access
> the info?
> 
> I remember recently reading about the classic
> CA 3080 "Voltage Control Anything you want" op
> Amp... and seem to remember
> someone suggesting that there is now a more modern
> replacement for it
> (like a 3880, or a 3280)??
> 
> I'm wondering what the new part is, where to get it,
> and if I should just
> stick to the classic - or plug the new ones right
> into my PC Boards?
> Are the directly replaceable? and what might be the
> advantages?
> 
> I apologize in advance, because I have a feeling
> that this subject must
> surely have been beaten to death by now - LOL!
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Cynthia 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From bigfootstudios at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 02:15:54 2002
From: bigfootstudios at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:15:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] LM 317 regulators
In-Reply-To: <3C9BB31A.E3310CF9@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020323011554.32790.qmail@web20511.mail.yahoo.com>

Well I had one fail recently in a Rev. 1 Prophet-5...  The 320-15 regulator
also failed... Of course the synth is now 24 years old... 

Doug

> greg montalbano wrote:
> 
> > Hello --
> > I would be curious to hear people's experience with LM 317 adjustable
> > regulators -- specifically, instances of intermittent fault or breakdown in
> > parts approaching the 20 year mark.
> >
> > Thanks, eh?
> >
> > ~GMM
> 
> 
> 


=====
BigFoot Recording Studios
40-Track Facility
Fremont, CA
www.bigfootstudio.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 23 02:56:50 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:56:50 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] List Archives? and CA 3080 Question?
In-Reply-To: <B8C10F7A.3347%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
References: <B8C10F7A.3347%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20020323.025650.104031301.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
Subject: [sdiy] List Archives? and CA 3080 Question?
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:42:34 -0700

> Hi List!

Hi Cynthia,

> Is there any kind of archive for all the information presented here day
> after day?
> 
> If so, could someone please show me how to access the info?
> 
> I remember recently reading about the classic
> CA 3080 "Voltage Control Anything you want" op Amp... and seem to remember
> someone suggesting that there is now a more modern replacement for it
> (like a 3880, or a 3280)??
> 
> I'm wondering what the new part is, where to get it, and if I should just
> stick to the classic - or plug the new ones right into my PC Boards?
> Are the directly replaceable? and what might be the advantages?

Go to http://www.intersil.com and check out the CA3280. You will also
find the CA3080 there, so it is easy enougth to compare them.

> I apologize in advance, because I have a feeling that this subject must
> surely have been beaten to death by now - LOL!

No worries, but we are a few that is starting to have beat that
particular question almost to a death.

Cheers,
Magnus - nigthhawk at your service


From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar 23 02:59:35 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:59:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] List Archives?  and CA 3080 Question?
References: <B8C10F7A.3347%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BE187.9090201@addcom.de>

Hi Cynthia,

There is a 3280. It is an improved 3080 n the sense that it has diodes 
on the input that can pre-distort the signal so you get a better signal 
to noise ratio. However, it is a dual unit, and consequently is not a 
drop in replacement for the 3080.

I think i did hear of a single improved 3080 before, but it must be 
really rare, because I never heard of it again. ;)
what was it guys 3094 or something?

and I don't mean the single inline ba6110. Which is, of course not a 
drop in replacement for a 3080.


cheers,

mark


Cynthia Webster wrote:

>Hi List!
>
>Is there any kind of archive for all the information presented here day
>after day?
>
>If so, could someone please show me how to access the info?
>
>I remember recently reading about the classic
>CA 3080 "Voltage Control Anything you want" op Amp... and seem to remember
>someone suggesting that there is now a more modern replacement for it
>(like a 3880, or a 3280)??
>
>I'm wondering what the new part is, where to get it, and if I should just
>stick to the classic - or plug the new ones right into my PC Boards?
>Are the directly replaceable? and what might be the advantages?
>
>I apologize in advance, because I have a feeling that this subject must
>surely have been beaten to death by now - LOL!
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>Cynthia 
>
>




From 8brain at spiritone.com  Sat Mar 23 02:59:50 2002
From: 8brain at spiritone.com (RFahl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:59:50 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] List Archives?  and CA 3080 Question?
References: <B8C10F7A.3347%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <004f01c1d20e$6c6c5a60$40d963d8@aracnet.com>

3080 is the first OTA that was massproduced.  It's not the cleanest sounding
device, but has a lot of charm.  More recent additions to the family are the
LM13600/700 and CA3280, both of which are dual and have better distortion
characteristics.

Supposedly both of the latter have been obsoleted, though I'm not too sure
of that.

Mouser had NJM13600s last time I checked.  Digikey used to sell 3280s, but
didn't couldn't find them there about two months ago. Ocean state
electronics (surplus dealer) has them for under $2.00, which is a steal.

It's also possible to make a decent OTA using transistor arrays, such as the
CA3046 or members of the THAT family.

R.


----- Original Message -----
From: Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 3:42 PM
Subject: [sdiy] List Archives? and CA 3080 Question?


> Hi List!
>
> Is there any kind of archive for all the information presented here day
> after day?
>
> If so, could someone please show me how to access the info?
>
> I remember recently reading about the classic
> CA 3080 "Voltage Control Anything you want" op Amp... and seem to remember
> someone suggesting that there is now a more modern replacement for it
> (like a 3880, or a 3280)??
>
> I'm wondering what the new part is, where to get it, and if I should just
> stick to the classic - or plug the new ones right into my PC Boards?
> Are the directly replaceable? and what might be the advantages?
>
> I apologize in advance, because I have a feeling that this subject must
> surely have been beaten to death by now - LOL!
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Cynthia
>



From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Mar 23 03:10:55 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:10:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] List Archives?  and CA 3080 Question?
References: <B8C10F7A.3347%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BE42F.B96FE31@silcom.com>



Cynthia Webster wrote:

> Hi List!
>
> Is there any kind of archive for all the information presented here day
> after day?
>
> If so, could someone please show me how to access the info?
>
> I remember recently reading about the classic
> CA 3080 "Voltage Control Anything you want" op Amp... and seem to remember
> someone suggesting that there is now a more modern replacement for it
> (like a 3880, or a 3280)??

    The CA3280 was the "replacement" for the CA3080, however, it is not a pin
for pin replacement (i.e., if you are repairing something that needs a CA3080,
you need to replace it with a CA3080).  The CA3280 is a dual OTA, plus it has
linearizing diodes in it.  For a new design, the CA3280 is a better choice in
that it is a much higher performer than the CA3080 (bandwidth and offset
voltage mostly).

>
>
> I'm wondering what the new part is, where to get it, and if I should just
> stick to the classic - or plug the new ones right into my PC Boards?
> Are the directly replaceable? and what might be the advantages?

    You can get the CA3280 from future active (http://www.future-active.com),
but the minimum buy seems to be 25 peices (1 tube).  However, if you already
have boards that use the CA3080, you probably don't want to purchase these
(for the reasons above).

    You can also purchase them from me.  I sell them at the 100 unit price
($2.65) in small quantities.

    You can also learn more about the CA3280 on one of my web pages :

http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/archives/archives.html

>
>
> I apologize in advance, because I have a feeling that this subject must
> surely have been beaten to death by now - LOL!

    Always willing to beat it some more...

>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Cynthia

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 23 03:15:00 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:15:00 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] LM 317 regulators
In-Reply-To: <20020322214819.39587.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322110530.022daec0@popserv.ucop.edu>
	<20020322214819.39587.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020323.031500.78704281.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] LM 317 regulators
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:48:19 -0800 (PST)

> No direct experience with that part, but I can give
> you some general knowledge about reliability.
> 
> HP (my former employer) did a 10-year study on
> reliability and how to improve it. their goal was a
> 10x improvement in reliability.
> 
> They found that the most important factor was the
> derating of semi ratings. For example: If a 16V cap is
> used in a 15V circuit, it will not have very good
> reliability. If a 35V cap is used, it will have way
> better reliability.

A small warning: This might not be generically true! Some caps require
a fairly high DC potential for them to be capable in the long run to
handle their maximum rating. In the end you have to balance different
fault mechanisms. In the end, it is the knowledge of different fault
mechanisms which enables you to do good design choises.

But as the general statement, yes, derating is a good practice, and
not only for reliability purposes.

All to often designers choose components so they run at the rimb of
their specs. This can have catastrophic results. You must let
components have what I call headroom, DC regulators for instance must
have both voltage, current and power headroom.

> HP's overall spec is to derate values by 50% whenever
> possible.

That is just 3 dB (or 6 dB, depending on the parameter) added margin.

> Now in your case, keep in mind the #1 enemy
> of semis is heat. So if your regulators are running at
> the top of their specs and/or have marginal heat
> sinks, then that could be the whole problem right
> there.

Indeed.

> Also keep in mind semis fail. 20 years for a 1A
> regulator doesn't seem bad to me.

No.

Also, one must also accept that certain components degrade over time,
and that replacement of for instance electrolytic capacitors may be
seen as a standard precaution service before they start causing
trouble. By not letting too old components age out and burn of, you
may reduce the load on other parts of the system. Many age related
faults have secondary faults which was caused by a long term
stress. Not only wise design, but also wise maintenance will ensure
long lifetime and good specs on things.

Cheers,
Magnus


From epeasant at telusplanet.net  Sat Mar 23 03:25:05 2002
From: epeasant at telusplanet.net (epeasant at telusplanet.net)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:25:05 GMT
Subject: [sdiy] List Archives?  and CA 3080 Question?
Message-ID: <3c9be781.2957.0@telusplanet.net>

Hello, Cynthia,

>Hi List!
>
>Is there any kind of archive for all the information presented here day
>after day?
>
>If so, could someone please show me how to access the info?

Sure, it's at:

http://www.buchi.de/SDIY/

>I remember recently reading about the classic
>CA 3080 "Voltage Control Anything you want" op Amp... and seem to remember

>someone suggesting that there is now a more modern replacement for it
>(like a 3880, or a 3280)??

That would be the CA3280. There certainly is a lot of information in the archives
for it and other OTLs.

>I'm wondering what the new part is, where to get it, and if I should just
>stick to the classic - or plug the new ones right into my PC Boards?
>Are the directly replaceable? and what might be the advantages?

The CA3280 is a dual OTL and so is not pin-to-pin compatible with the 3080.
But it is far superior.

Welcome to the list!

Take care,
Doug

______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Mar 23 06:43:49 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:43:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
References: <20020322.022053.71088426.cfmd@swipnet.se>
		<3C9AAA14.82EF14F2@prodigy.net>
		<4.1.20020322000900.01b24220@mail.ezwv.com> <20020323.004351.41631131.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3C9C1614.37050DDD@prodigy.net>

Magnus Danielson and others wrote:

> > I should add that this mailing list is about as far from that situation as one
> > can get. There are a lot of smart and helpful people here. It's just too bad
> > that most of us live so far apart from each other. It would be interesting to
> > see all of us in the same room at once.
>
> Indeed, indeed. However, it would be a terrible mess in the end.

Magnus... use you IMAGINATION !  Picture a nice BIG room.  With comfy
chairs... lots of test equipment and toys...  Waitstaff to bring your choice of
refreshments, waiting at your beck and call... Moonlight shining over the waves...

oh yeah I forgot to mention... the room is on the island of Maui.... I can see it
now   ;^P

H^) harry




From matti at devo.com  Sat Mar 23 06:46:17 2002
From: matti at devo.com (matti)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:46:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203230029470.23769-100000@whipit.devo.com>

Well, not quite. section 101 states that digital devices not already sold
must incorporate certified security technologies. So, that twin-t
oscillator you have lying in the cupboard from 12 years ago is safe.

Not the sample and holds and decade counter-based subharmonic generators
and MOTM VCSwitch, though. Suggestion : Next time you use a DAC, strike
preemptively and inject lots of 1/f.



enjoy



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Atom 'Smasher' wrote:

> this law would put a digital cop in every sampler, synth, drum
> machine, digital recorder, etc....
> because they *COULD* be used to make an unauthorized copy of copyrighted
> material.
>
> http://anti-dmca.org/
>
>
>         ...atom
>
> ----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
> http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R
>
> 	"Government is not the solution to our problem,
> 	 government is the problem."
> 		-- Ronald Reagan
> 		Inaugural Address, 20 Jan 1981
>
*snip*
-
I finally got to the toilet paper, but couldn't find the end of the roll.
I grabbed at the paper, clawing at it, but it felt like smoke. I
eventually managed to grab a fistful, and looking down at my hand, I
couldn't see anything, but I knew I had the paper. Somehow. I managed to
wipe, somehow, and while glancing down I noticed my legs had disappeared.
Oh, no, it's ok, there they are. No, they've gone again. How the fuck am I
supposed to wipe when my asshole keeps disappearing?



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Mar 23 06:48:50 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:48:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org> <v04220803b8c16991cee5@[64.172.21.178]> <3C9BD4B4.9050507@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <3C9C1741.F67516E0@prodigy.net>

Maybe its time for the industry to price products more in line with what
their costs are...  Most people will PAY for a legitimate copy if the price
is not VIOLENT RAPE...

The big record companies are going broke because they can no longer tell
everyone what they WANT to hear...
(I'm getting the best stuff from listmembers anyway... )

H^) harry

mark verbos wrote:

> Democrats support this because it is supposed to help artists. How much
> do you think the sales of CDs have suffered since CD burners became
> affordable? EMI is dropping most of their roster as of this week, and
> that's what they blame. I guess since I own a record label I should
> worry about this. Of course mine only puts out vinyl. I'm worried about
> the Final Scratch!
>
> mark verbos
>
> Simon Gatrall wrote:
>
> >> this law would put a digital cop in every sampler, synth, drum
> >> machine, digital recorder, etc....
> >> because they *COULD* be used to make an unauthorized copy of copyrighted
> >> material.
> >>
> >> http://anti-dmca.org/
> >
> >
> > <political rant>
> >
> > As a member of the MIDI Manufacturers Association, I have already
> > written to the MMA president to point out the fact that the CBDTPA
> > could be used against anything that plays MIDI, samplers, or digital
> > multitrack recorders.  He's already aware of the issue and is passing
> > it on to other MMA members.
> >
> > I know that the RIAA has repeatedly gone after sites that host illegal
> > MIDI files of pop songs, so I'm sure they would be happy to make it
> > impossible to play unlicensed MIDI files on your synth.
> >
> > Be very, very scared of this kind of control.  Because of the DCMA,
> > which is already a law, you could be put in jail for 5 years if you
> > "reverse engineer or circumvent" the copyright control mechanism that
> > they are proposing.  That's right, you could get the same penalties as
> > a rapist.
> >
> > The most confusing part about this is that most of the senators
> > sponsoring this bill are Democrats.  Of course they are getting money
> > from the RIAA and the MPAA.
> >
> > </political rant>
> >
> > Maybe this is another reason to drop all this digital technology and
> > go exclusively analog. :)
> >
> > -s!mon
> >

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Mar 23 07:00:21 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:00:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] CV pedal for Filter Factory
References: <20020322000722.22111.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <3C9AE04C.E733627D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9C19F4.7C3AB59F@prodigy.net>

Well FUNNY about this but I just resurrected my 20 year old CV
Pedal made from an old CryBaby.  I used a single NPN Transistor as a voltage

follower so that the output would be reasonably independant of the load.

You could also use a higher value pot that way... and maybe extend battery
life as well.

No need to though... a simple pot will be OK as well....

H^) harry

Joe Kramer wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>     How do I make a simple CV circuit for use in a footpedal?  Do I need
> some kind of active circuitry, like a buffer amp, or can I get away with
> just a pot and a voltage source?  I've already got an empty footpedal
> shell and would like to run the whole thing off a 9V battery if
> possible.  The Filter Factory has a CV input for the filter frequency,
> and gives no specs other than that it's 1V/oct.  Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Joe Kramer

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Sat Mar 23 07:26:26 2002
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:26:26 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone!  (say, any CA3094's out there?)
Message-ID: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>

Hi list!

I just wanted to thanks everyone for being so helpful!
Thanks to you, I found the search engine for the Archives, and am very
grateful...

(now I'm looking for CA3094 chips and - oh my!
They're very scarce!

Why?

(What's the  *big idea* of these huge companies making things, and getting
us to design stuff using their pinouts - only to have them Yank the product
- saying it's "obsolete" and then *not* offering us any upgrade, equivalent
or replacements?

That's Not very nice!

Of course I've spent hours and hours on a circuit only to find out *now*
that the part's not available... Anyone want to sell two or three used ones?

So well, now I'm wondering if it's possible to wire-up my own CA3094
equivalent circuit onto an 8-pin dip header, as a sort of "Franken-Amp"
to plug into the socket - where a *Real* CA3094 should be...

Any ideas?

(Did You say a room in Maui?  Really? The moonlight on the waves)?  LOL!

Thanks Everybody!

Cynthia






From ka4hjh at gte.net  Sat Mar 23 10:07:16 2002
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 04:07:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3C9C1741.F67516E0@prodigy.net>
References:  <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
 <v04220803b8c16991cee5@[64.172.21.178]> <3C9BD4B4.9050507@addcom.de>
 <3C9C1741.F67516E0@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <p05100301b8c1eaaf4edf@[67.200.137.147]>

>Maybe its time for the industry to price products more in line with what
>their costs are...  Most people will PAY for a legitimate copy if the price
>is not VIOLENT RAPE...

In case any of you weren't aware last year was the worst year the music
industry has had in a decade, profit-wise. What was the excuse last time
this happened? Was it "home taping?" or something like "disco sucks?"
Whatever the case the difference this time around is that they actually
have something to blame besides fickle audiences and their own stupidity.
Want to curb piracy? Drop the retail prices--drastically. Get the price of
Twitch & The Widgets down to $9.99--or less.

How many industries can you think of that derive their income from the sale
of a product whose price is not tied to the value of some raw material in
limited supply (like gold, tantalum or cocaine) and who RAISE retail prices
when they have a bad year? I can't except for one, and that's exactly what
the music industry has done! Common wisdom in retail is that when sales are
bad you have a SALE. In the music industry "sale" is a four letter word so
they've done exactly the opposite! The only time the price of a CD ever
drops is when it gets moved to the "golden oldies" list.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting to see is how they're going to break the $20 price
barrier for a CD in the US. DVD's of much-more-expensive-to-produce films
are going for $25-30 with the retail price of most new CD's now up to
$19.99. Jack Valenti is happy to report (after repeatedly complaining about
the specter of film piracy) that the film industry had a blockbuster take
last year--is that why DVD's are so cheap compared to audio CD's and vice
versa??

Remember a few years back when they discovered that there was a thriving
market for used CD's and someone seriously suggested that we should all
have to pay royalties on USED CD'S?? At least that idea didn't get
anywhere...


>The big record companies are going broke because they can no longer tell
>everyone what they WANT to hear...

It's almost as if there are some stone tablets somewhere written in the
hand of the Almighty Himself that say "thou shalt realize a profit of at
least <X> billion dollars a year in music sales or Congress must act", and
they're keeping the faith most religiously. That and the fact that they're
clinging to the long-dead "sell them expensive albums" marketing strategy
when what most people really want is the hit single without all the filler.

>(I'm getting the best stuff from listmembers anyway... )

I'm sure nobody here is putting out hit singles padded with filler...

---

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"You'd PAY to know what you REALLY think"--Dobbs


From m.bareille at free.fr  Sat Mar 23 10:20:53 2002
From: m.bareille at free.fr (m.bareille at free.fr)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20:53 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [sdiy] Site update: MIDI3CV interface
Message-ID: <1016875253.3c9c48f585f98@imp.free.fr>

Hello 

I have upgraded my web page with informations of my last project 

It is a small MIDI to CV interface based on PIC16F84 and named "MIDI3CV".
Basicaly developped for the ASM1-X (V/oct) to replace a defficient MCV ( 
elektor)i have rapidly adapted it for Korgs MS series (general request around 
me) and finaly,as i was in need of an easy tuning system for the tube synth i 
am building,it became the "thing" presented on my web page now...

Small but powerful, here is a quick resume of features :

The MIDI3CV interface is a MIDI to 3x CV + Gate converter for monophonic
analog synthesizers. Based on a PIC16F84 and three 8 bits converters it
perform a 100% editable 4 oct scale, to driveV/Hz (Korg MS20) or any other
unlinear devices like Thyratrons tube VCOs. It also produce the 1V/oct scale
for linear synthesizers. Gate outputs are +, - and switched trigger for Moogs.

Complete MIDI system exclusive message is implemented to edit all
parameters and tune each note of the table. A configuration software for
Windows is provided to configure the interface through MIDI.  


Much more informations are available at :

http://m.bareille.free.fr/


Best Regards,


Marc B.


From music.maker at gte.net  Sat Mar 23 09:37:23 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:37:23
Subject: [sdiy] noise source crap out
Message-ID: <20020323173744.TOHB16260.out002.verizon.net@mail.lan>

This is why it would be so nice to have
focal point website where an FAQ could be posted
as well as proper site URLs.

Or (I think better) a monthly FAQ posting to the
list with that same info in it.  That would be only 
one additional email received each month.

..IMHO...

Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se> wrote:
>From: "Magus Ship" <elmystico at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] noise source crap out
>Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:42:48 -0500
>
>> the asm homepage at:
>> http://www.it.kth.se/~e93_mda/synths/companies/stopp/
>> has a pdf of their noise source, the differences between theirs and mine are
>> negligible enough to ignore.
>
>PLEASE!!!! Do NOT use that old link!
>
>Use http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/ ONLY!
>
>The old link goes to an account which has not been under my control
>for years, and I can't update anything there.
>
>Drawing any conclusion on things from that site is bogus, go to where
>things at least have a theoretical chance of being updated.
>
>I have tried many, many times to make folks use the right link, but no
>luck it seems.
>
>Cheers,
>Magnus

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Sat Mar 23 10:40:59 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 04:40:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Real Easy Juno 106 Question (plus a TR-707 whine at the end)
Message-ID: <3C9C4DAB.6EF9C4FE@verizon.net>



On the bender board, what is the value of C1, it looks like it should
be an electrolytic.  It's just at the top of the board, just below the
center connector.  Oh, if you're there, what are the values of R1-6
and D1-2.  For the Diodes, I used 1N914's  is this okay?  I can't tell
what was supposed to be there.


that's all... TR-707 problems follow.

everything works apparently properly (LED's, sounds, triggers, etc)
except the sequencer portion when it resets to step 1.  It glitches
everytime here.  If there is a sound (say BD1) at the first step, it
will usually trigger that sound/step twice before resuming the pattern
normally.  Also, when I select a pattern, I can only select
every-other one.  When I select pattern 3 (from any bank) 3 will
flash, and 4 will light up.  When I select pattern 4, 3 will flash,
and 4 will light up.  When I select pattern 5, 5 flashes, 6 lights up,
etc.  The only one different from this is pattern 1.  Pattern 1 will
not play.  Pattern 2 will though.  Select pattern 2, led lights, 1
flashes.  Press 1 and it flashes (no light at 2) and it won't start.

pressing BD1 manually will trigger the sound though, so the button
itself is okay.

any ideas?

thanks all

-ben


From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Sat Mar 23 10:46:13 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 04:46:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
	 <v04220803b8c16991cee5@[64.172.21.178]> <3C9BD4B4.9050507@addcom.de>
	 <3C9C1741.F67516E0@prodigy.net> <p05100301b8c1eaaf4edf@[67.200.137.147]>
Message-ID: <3C9C4EE5.ADEA1471@verizon.net>



KA4HJH wrote:
> 
> when what most people really want is the hit single without all the filler.

Of course they do!  That hit single is usually the only worthwhile
song on the entire album after all.  And in most cases, I'm using the
word "worthwhile" very loosely.

-ben


From dragonservicing at success4business.com  Sat Mar 23 11:56:49 2002
From: dragonservicing at success4business.com (Peter M Blackett)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:56:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
Message-ID: <3C9C5F71.5C625DDF@success4business.com>

HI,
found this link which gives I think more info about the ca3094 
http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Appnotes_Archive/an6077.pdf  
I think they are used in the Moog 12 stage phaser and some maestro
pedals .
used to be available from Farnell , but not anymore unfortunately.
regards Peter


From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Mar 23 11:59:57 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:59:57 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone!  (say, any CA3094's out there?)
References: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <00eb01c1d25b$9a6d5d40$62f586d9@oemcomputer>

>So well, now I'm wondering if it's possible to wire-up my own CA3094
equivalent circuit onto an 8-pin dip header...

As far as I can tell, the 3094 is 'just' a 3080 with a NPN darlington
follower on its output. In other words its half a 13600 without the
linearising diodes at the front end. You could therefore make a little
board to fit in. Basically, one 3080, two BC549s (or SM equivalent) and
a resistor. Or use a surface mount 13700 and not use half of it.

If you do a search for the EH smallstone schematics you'll see the 3094
used in a circuit. I think the Moog 12-stage phaser used 3094s too.

Regards,

Tony Allgood                       Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Sound Systems                     www.oakleysound.com
Modular projects            www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 23 12:13:30 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:30 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
In-Reply-To: <3C9C1614.37050DDD@prodigy.net>
References: <4.1.20020322000900.01b24220@mail.ezwv.com>
	<20020323.004351.41631131.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<3C9C1614.37050DDD@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20020323.121330.41198186.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:43:49 -0500

Harry,

> Magnus Danielson and others wrote:
> 
> > > I should add that this mailing list is about as far from that situation as one
> > > can get. There are a lot of smart and helpful people here. It's just too bad
> > > that most of us live so far apart from each other. It would be interesting to
> > > see all of us in the same room at once.
> >
> > Indeed, indeed. However, it would be a terrible mess in the end.
> 
> Magnus... use you IMAGINATION !  Picture a nice BIG room.  With comfy
> chairs... lots of test equipment and toys...  Waitstaff to bring
> your choice of refreshments, waiting at your beck and
> call... Moonlight shining over the waves...

Oh, dear Harry, I *HAVE* used my imagination ;O)

First I had about the same picture as you, but that was the static
view before time got released... and I started to figure what can
happend when you concentrate such unbound imaginations in the same
spot and let them loose... from the inside it could be a great feast,
from the outside a big mess... we are talking about rewired
electricity, we are talking about the endresult of the fire and
explosives group, we are talking about the downing of several
aircrafts due to the GigawattTheremin that the RF group put together
etc. etc. isn't all this best covered in the "terrible mess" that I
used?

Who to blame for such an action? Those that put the forces together! ;o)

> oh yeah I forgot to mention... the room is on the island of
> Maui.... I can see it now   ;^P

Well... never been there...

Cheers,
Magnus


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 23 12:31:02 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:31:02 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone! (say, any CA3094's out there?)
In-Reply-To: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
References: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20020323.123102.41630060.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone! (say, any CA3094's out there?)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:26:26 -0700

> Hi list!

Hi Cynthia,

> I just wanted to thanks everyone for being so helpful!

This is the whole point - "Share and enjoy"!

> Thanks to you, I found the search engine for the Archives, and am very
> grateful...
> 
> (now I'm looking for CA3094 chips and - oh my!
> They're very scarce!
> 
> Why?

Last I checked with my favorite part dealer, he had them...

> (What's the  *big idea* of these huge companies making things, and getting
> us to design stuff using their pinouts - only to have them Yank the product
> - saying it's "obsolete" and then *not* offering us any upgrade, equivalent
> or replacements?
> 
> That's Not very nice!

No. It is certainly not a nice thing to do. Those of use that work in
the electronic industry should maybe figure out a way to use that kind
of stuff in our products so that we keep the volume up... ah, that
would be a dream... <shrug> oh... sorry... daydreaming again...

> Of course I've spent hours and hours on a circuit only to find out *now*
> that the part's not available... Anyone want to sell two or three used ones?

There are still new ones out there...

> So well, now I'm wondering if it's possible to wire-up my own CA3094
> equivalent circuit onto an 8-pin dip header, as a sort of "Franken-Amp"
> to plug into the socket - where a *Real* CA3094 should be...
> 
> Any ideas?

The CA3094 is essentially an CA3080 with two output transistors for a buffer.

> (Did You say a room in Maui?  Really? The moonlight on the waves)?  LOL!

You'd like to come? Sure... join the party! ;O)

Cheers,
Magnus - that crazy Swede...


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 23 12:39:34 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:39:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone! (say, any CA3094's out there?)
In-Reply-To: <00eb01c1d25b$9a6d5d40$62f586d9@oemcomputer>
References: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
	<00eb01c1d25b$9a6d5d40$62f586d9@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20020323.123934.71085939.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Tony Allgood" <oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone! (say, any CA3094's out there?)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:59:57 -0000

> >So well, now I'm wondering if it's possible to wire-up my own CA3094
> equivalent circuit onto an 8-pin dip header...
> 
> As far as I can tell, the 3094 is 'just' a 3080 with a NPN darlington
> follower on its output. In other words its half a 13600 without the
> linearising diodes at the front end.

In principle yes, but the internal solution differes between the 3094
and the 13600, I have compared them! Now, this should not be a
monumental difference, but migth be important in some cases.

> You could therefore make a little
> board to fit in. Basically, one 3080, two BC549s (or SM equivalent) and
> a resistor.

Actually, two resistors, a 2 kOhm resistor to the collector of the
first transistor, and then a 47 kOhm resistor between the base and
emitter of the output transistor. Both the emitter and collector of
the output transistor is outputs.

I've compared the CA3080 and the CA3094 schematics and the OTA side
are exactly equalent. So you can cook yourself a CA3094 from an
CA3080.

> Or use a surface mount 13700 and not use half of it.

Could be a good solution.

> If you do a search for the EH smallstone schematics you'll see the 3094
> used in a circuit.

Indeed. That is what made me learn about it. In some EH Smallstones
they are customlabel EH1048.

> I think the Moog 12-stage phaser used 3094s too.

... and there is more...

Cheers,
Magnus


From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar 23 15:04:39 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:04:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org> <v04220803b8c16991cee5@[64.172.21.178]> <3C9BD4B4.9050507@addcom.de> <3C9C1741.F67516E0@prodigy.net> <p05100301b8c1eaaf4edf@[67.200.137.147]>
Message-ID: <3C9C8B77.4040906@addcom.de>

Funny thing is, the hit single is filer too. It has just been played on 
TV and radio so much that the stupid hook hauntsyour soul making you 
think you like it.

(My hat is off to who ever wrote "can't get you out of my head" by Kylie 
Minougue)

mark

KA4HJH wrote:

>
>I'm sure nobody here is putting out hit singles padded with filler...
>
>




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sat Mar 23 15:11:23 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:11:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone! (say, any CA3094's out there?)
References: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net> <20020323.123102.41630060.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3C9C8D0B.9070902@addcom.de>

It's a game the industry pays to ensure technological advances. See if 
the parts from the 70's were all still available, everyone would us 
them. Now, we are forced to try out other options, make discrete 
solutions, etc.

The industry policy (especially Analog Devices) of discontinuing exactly 
the part you need is there for your intellectual benefit.

;)

mark

Magnus Danielson wrote:

>
>Last I checked with my favorite part dealer, he had them...
>
>>(What's the  *big idea* of these huge companies making things, and getting
>>us to design stuff using their pinouts - only to have them Yank the product
>>- saying it's "obsolete" and then *not* offering us any upgrade, equivalent
>>or replacements?
>>
>>That's Not very nice!
>>
>
>No. It is certainly not a nice thing to do. Those of use that work in
>the electronic industry should maybe figure out a way to use that kind
>of stuff in our products so that we keep the volume up... ah, that
>would be a dream... <shrug> oh... sorry... daydreaming again...
>




From thudson at tomy.net  Sat Mar 23 16:04:51 2002
From: thudson at tomy.net (Thomas Hudson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:04:51 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3C9C8B77.4040906@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <535C903A-3E6F-11D6-BF5D-00306568757E@tomy.net>


On Saturday, March 23, 2002, at 08:04 AM, mark verbos wrote:

> Funny thing is, the hit single is filer too. It has just been played on 
> TV and radio so much that the stupid hook hauntsyour soul making you 
> think you like it.
>

I remember an interview of Eno where he said he recorded 3 minutes of 
street noise from his
apartment window and then listened to it over and over. He said after a 
while he came to
like it and would anticipate certain car door slams and dog barks.

Might be hard to get into rotation on most radio playlists, but if you 
did, one could churn
out hits like those boy bands ;-)

It would definitely be more interesting listening.

TH



From elmystico at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 23 16:35:48 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Magus Ship)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:35:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] noise source crap out
Message-ID: <E16ondA-0006qh-00@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"All of a sudden" my homebuilt noise source, which is based on the
Electronotes and ASM-1 designs has crapped out.  What used to be a rich hiss
has become a futzy stream of what sounds like badly band pass filtered pink
noise.  Around this time the ground connection at my power supply became
desoldered (unrelated? related?).  My question is whether the transistor or
the filter caps to get pink and Random Low Frequency outputs would be the
problem.  Is it possible that a transistor that provides good noise can
change or crap out over time?  Or is it more likely that a cap or a bad
connection in the filters would produce this effect?
thanks as always.
Gavin 


From psnow at magma.ca  Sat Mar 23 16:56:21 2002
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:56:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone!  (say, any CA3094's out there?)
References: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C9CA5A5.F88D23F7@magma.ca>

Hi Cynthia,

Try Steve at Small Bear Electronics.  He is listing them for $4.75 each.

Go here:  http://pw1.netcom.com/~smallbearelec/Ordering/Stocklist.htm

Good luck,

Peter



Cynthia Webster wrote:
> 
> Hi list!
> 
> I just wanted to thanks everyone for being so helpful!
> Thanks to you, I found the search engine for the Archives, and am very
> grateful...
> 
> (now I'm looking for CA3094 chips and - oh my!
> They're very scarce!
> 
> Why?
> 
> (What's the  *big idea* of these huge companies making things, and getting
> us to design stuff using their pinouts - only to have them Yank the product
> - saying it's "obsolete" and then *not* offering us any upgrade, equivalent
> or replacements?
> 
> That's Not very nice!
> 
> Of course I've spent hours and hours on a circuit only to find out *now*
> that the part's not available... Anyone want to sell two or three used ones?
> 
> So well, now I'm wondering if it's possible to wire-up my own CA3094
> equivalent circuit onto an 8-pin dip header, as a sort of "Franken-Amp"
> to plug into the socket - where a *Real* CA3094 should be...
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> (Did You say a room in Maui?  Really? The moonlight on the waves)?  LOL!
> 
> Thanks Everybody!
> 
> Cynthia


From tb303head at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 23 16:58:20 2002
From: tb303head at earthlink.net (Ron Malleis)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:58:20 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] CV pedal for Filter Factory
In-Reply-To: <3C9C19F4.7C3AB59F@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBLOJPBLHOOCGCCKCHAEMNCLAA.tb303head@earthlink.net>

I just made one of these for my Filter Queen (I'm assuming what you need is
equivalent to the "expression pedal" 1/4" TRS jack on the Filter Queen).  I
just used a volume pedal that I had lying around, and added a TRS jack,
wiring the tip connector to one end of the slide pot, and the ring to the
other)-works like a charm :^P  It's the same concept as those TRS "effect
send-receive" cables commonly used with Mackie CR-1604 inserts.  No active
circuitry involved whatsoever for this.  Pedal used was an RFX-402 Volume
pedal.  The pedal action itself is a piece of feces for ANY application, but
with a little practicing, usable -those who have used this pedal know of
what I say...not complaining, though -didn't have to spend any of the little
dinero I have left!!

-R

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of harry
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:00 PM
To: Joe Kramer
Cc: Synth-Diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] CV pedal for Filter Factory


Well FUNNY about this but I just resurrected my 20 year old CV
Pedal made from an old CryBaby.  I used a single NPN Transistor as a voltage

follower so that the output would be reasonably independant of the load.

You could also use a higher value pot that way... and maybe extend battery
life as well.

No need to though... a simple pot will be OK as well....

H^) harry

Joe Kramer wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>     How do I make a simple CV circuit for use in a footpedal?  Do I need
> some kind of active circuitry, like a buffer amp, or can I get away with
> just a pot and a voltage source?  I've already got an empty footpedal
> shell and would like to run the whole thing off a 9V battery if
> possible.  The Filter Factory has a CV input for the filter frequency,
> and gives no specs other than that it's 1V/oct.  Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Joe Kramer

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???





From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 17:00:19 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:00:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] noise source crap out
In-Reply-To: <E16ondA-0006qh-00@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020323160019.11316.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

Where would I find a schematic?

--TR

--- Magus Ship <elmystico at earthlink.net> wrote:
> "All of a sudden" my homebuilt noise source, which
> is based on the
> Electronotes and ASM-1 designs has crapped out. 
> What used to be a rich hiss
> has become a futzy stream of what sounds like badly
> band pass filtered pink
> noise.  Around this time the ground connection at my
> power supply became
> desoldered (unrelated? related?).  My question is
> whether the transistor or
> the filter caps to get pink and Random Low Frequency
> outputs would be the
> problem.  Is it possible that a transistor that
> provides good noise can
> change or crap out over time?  Or is it more likely
> that a cap or a bad
> connection in the filters would produce this effect?
> thanks as always.
> Gavin 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Mar 23 17:03:24 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:03:24 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone!  (say, any CA3094's out there?)
References: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C9CA74C.8BE42029@silcom.com>



Cynthia Webster wrote:

> Hi list!
>
> I just wanted to thanks everyone for being so helpful!
> Thanks to you, I found the search engine for the Archives, and am very
> grateful...
>
> (now I'm looking for CA3094 chips and - oh my!
> They're very scarce!
>
> Why?

    We all ask that question...a lot of great chips have disapeard over the
years.  The SSM series, the CEM series, various parts by National
Semiconductor.  The CA3060 (triple CA3080) is gone.  Analog design is getting a
bit more difficult to do.  I just hope that Intersil does not discontinue the
CA3280.  It is the corner stone of all of my designs.  There is quite a list of
parts that can be made that have been discontinued.  And the reason is sales.
Many of these chips just don't have any main stream use any longer because there
are less expensive solutions.  Take a look at the market, there are not very
many true analog synths out there, and no mass produced ones that I know of.

>
>
> (What's the  *big idea* of these huge companies making things, and getting
> us to design stuff using their pinouts - only to have them Yank the product
> - saying it's "obsolete" and then *not* offering us any upgrade, equivalent
> or replacements?
>
> That's Not very nice!
>
> Of course I've spent hours and hours on a circuit only to find out *now*
> that the part's not available... Anyone want to sell two or three used ones?
>
> So well, now I'm wondering if it's possible to wire-up my own CA3094
> equivalent circuit onto an 8-pin dip header, as a sort of "Franken-Amp"
> to plug into the socket - where a *Real* CA3094 should be...
>
> Any ideas?

    The CA3094 is basically a CA3080 with a darlington driver.  Denpending on
how you use the darlington, you can either use a CA3080 with a discrete
darlington output, or use an LM13600/700...either of these solutions would take
a bit of research to determine which one is best for your situation.

>
>
> (Did You say a room in Maui?  Really? The moonlight on the waves)?  LOL!
>
> Thanks Everybody!
>
> Cynthia

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Sat Mar 23 17:08:09 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:08:09 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
 <v04220803b8c16991cee5@[64.172.21.178]> <3C9BD4B4.9050507@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <002201c1d284$ed200820$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: "mark verbos" <a0284520 at addcom.de>
To: "synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)


> Democrats support this because it is supposed to help artists.

Well, extrapolate out a few steps..

1) The price of *all* digital technology goes sky high to pass on the
cost of implementing this Orwellian nightmare
2) The market of used gear that doesn't have it goes sky high because
most ppl don't want to be bothered (can anyone say "Mindisc?")
3) Consumer electronics, along with the new media that it must play,
stagnates
4) The recording companies lose, the consumer electronics companies
lose, we all lose
5) The very same thing that upheld the economy these past 6 months
will be decimated (consumer spending on electronic goods)

BTW, due to this sort of thing being proposed, among other issues,
Phillips, RCA, Sony, et al have all issued statements that basically
say "The profitability in consumer electronics is gone; we are getting
out" and have all either privately or openly, issued timelines to stop
producing consumer electronics.

Working for one of the big 5, I can tell you that the regulations on
consumer electronics equipment has already managed to drive up the
cost for any *liable* (ie outside of mainland China) company to
produce consumer electronics.

This is why consumer electronics from every major firm is being moved
to China; not because the quality is better, not because its
neccesarily all that much cheaper, but the fact that the liability is
limited because China does not recognize copyrights, patents, and
intellectual property, and it has shown these firms that its better to
have it built there, and if any litigation ensues, you can blame it on
the fact that its made in China and that they have to sue the Chinese
company that built it and not sue the western conglomerate backing it.
Of course, to sue a Chinese company, you need govt permission. That
won't happen anytime soon, because the govt owns most of the
corporations. ;)

This bill will be the death knell for companies that uphold
intellectual rights, and no more consumer electronics development will
done after this in any of the westernized world.

 How much
> do you think the sales of CDs have suffered since CD burners became
> affordable? EMI is dropping most of their roster as of this week,
and
> that's what they blame.

EMI et al are all looking to get out of music completely, they just
tell you in a roundabout way. The majors are on the ropes, and the
power of production is in the hands of the ppl, to coin a socialist
phrase, and they are diminished everywhere but in their ability to
litigate. It is their only hope.

I just hope the Democrats wake the hell up in time to realize a
time-trued phrase: the worst thing you can give to business is exactly
what it wants; its just enough for them to destroy themselves.

Enron et al got exactly what they wanted, and they destroyed their
company with it. I see the same with Sony, EMI, Time-Warner, et al.
They will be more worried about enforcing their stupid security
systems than making music, it will clog the courts with bullshit, and
the only ppl who will make money will be the lawyers.

I mean, we already see a slowdown of newly released music. Give these
one-track idiots some cause like this, and I guarantee the first thing
they will do it drop their "talent" lineup and hire a bunch of lawyers
in their place to enforce this idiocy.

This is what happens when a corporation listens to lawyers. Really,
the lawyers work for the corporation, not vice-versa, but there is
always some promise of "big litigation cash" that puts stars in the
eyes of some stupid young accounting exec who doesn't even know how to
set the timer on his VCR let alone how security works.

Rob




From rrowley at btinternet.com  Sat Mar 23 17:12:18 2002
From: rrowley at btinternet.com (RichR)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:12:18 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <001101c1d285$82154580$39237bd5@g2a6n6>

unsubscribe
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020323/61b64e50/attachment.htm>

From atom at suspicious.org  Sat Mar 23 17:27:18 2002
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:27:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203231058540.19669-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203231118020.19669-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

> In case any of you weren't aware last year was the worst year the music
> industry has had in a decade, profit-wise.
==============================

gotta admit, it ain't easy to have record profits if all the $$$ is going
to pay the top execs millions, to themselves.

these bastards even get 10% of all blank media (cassettes, CD-Rs, DATs,
etc) sales, to compensate them the the piracy that they claim to be
happening because we are even ALLOWED to buy blank media.


        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"80% of air pollution comes not from chimneys and
	 auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees."
		-- Ronald Reagan




From voltagecontrolled at cox.net  Sat Mar 23 17:32:07 2002
From: voltagecontrolled at cox.net (Buck Buchanan)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:32:07 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] LM 317 regulators
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322110530.022daec0@popserv.ucop.edu>	<20020322214819.39587.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <20020323.031500.78704281.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <3C9CAE07.6090401@cox.net>

Hi all,


Magnus wrote:
> A small warning: This might not be generically true! Some caps require
> a fairly high DC potential for them to be capable in the long run to
> handle their maximum rating. In the end you have to balance different


I seem to remember reading about this somewhere before - on this list I 
believe.  Could you elaborate?  What type of cap are you referring to, 
how close to rated maximums is ideal, etc?

Thanks mucho!

Buck




From elmystico at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 23 17:42:48 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Magus Ship)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:42:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] noise source crap out
Message-ID: <E16oof3-0002SK-00@albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

the asm homepage at:
http://www.it.kth.se/~e93_mda/synths/companies/stopp/
has a pdf of their noise source, the differences between theirs and mine are
negligible enough to ignore.
----------
>From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
>To: Magus Ship <elmystico at earthlink.net>, synth <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] noise source crap out
>Date: Sat, Mar 23, 2002, 11:00 AM
>

>Where would I find a schematic?
>
>--TR
>
>--- Magus Ship <elmystico at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> "All of a sudden" my homebuilt noise source, which
>> is based on the
>> Electronotes and ASM-1 designs has crapped out. 
>> What used to be a rich hiss
>> has become a futzy stream of what sounds like badly
>> band pass filtered pink
>> noise.  Around this time the ground connection at my
>> power supply became
>> desoldered (unrelated? related?).  My question is
>> whether the transistor or
>> the filter caps to get pink and Random Low Frequency
>> outputs would be the
>> problem.  Is it possible that a transistor that
>> provides good noise can
>> change or crap out over time?  Or is it more likely
>> that a cap or a bad
>> connection in the filters would produce this effect?
>> thanks as always.
>> Gavin 
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
>http://movies.yahoo.com/


From psnow at magma.ca  Sat Mar 23 17:49:19 2002
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:49:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203220146290.10488-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
	 <v04220803b8c16991cee5@[64.172.21.178]> <3C9BD4B4.9050507@addcom.de>
	 <3C9C1741.F67516E0@prodigy.net> <p05100301b8c1eaaf4edf@[67.200.137.147]>
Message-ID: <3C9CB20F.C7A02C37@magma.ca>

Hi all,

<rant mode on>
We have a similar nonsense going on in Canada right now but more to do with blank recording media.
Some organisation called the Canadian Private Copying Collective (no doubt affiliated with the music
industry) backed by the Copyright Board (Fed. Govt.) is trying to bring in legislation to tax not
only blank CD's, cassette tapes & DAT's, which all currently have a levy imposed on them, but also
raw memory (RAM, memory sticks etc), blank DVDs, MP3 and other music players and, get this, $20 per
Gigabyte levy on hard disk space - that's $1,200 tax on a 60gig hard drive! Outrageous!! Not clear
if this applies to computers or just music devices.  

The "fines" would go to Canadian artistes who are "...ostensibly harmed by piracy and who hold
copyrights on music in Canada...",  Yea, like the Tragically Hip, Celine Dion, Shania Twain, Alanis
Morisette, Bare Naked Ladies, etc, all need more money!

And all because we are assumed to be criminals because we have purchased one of these items.
Last time I looked, we are all assumed to be innocent until proven guilty - this kinda nonsense has
to stop!
<rant mode off>

Regards,

Peter  

KA4HJH wrote:
> 
> >Maybe its time for the industry to price products more in line with what
> >their costs are...  Most people will PAY for a legitimate copy if the price
> >is not VIOLENT RAPE...
> 
> In case any of you weren't aware last year was the worst year the music
> industry has had in a decade, profit-wise. What was the excuse last time
> this happened? Was it "home taping?" or something like "disco sucks?"
> Whatever the case the difference this time around is that they actually
> have something to blame besides fickle audiences and their own stupidity.
> Want to curb piracy? Drop the retail prices--drastically. Get the price of
> Twitch & The Widgets down to $9.99--or less.
> 
> How many industries can you think of that derive their income from the sale
> of a product whose price is not tied to the value of some raw material in
> limited supply (like gold, tantalum or cocaine) and who RAISE retail prices
> when they have a bad year? I can't except for one, and that's exactly what
> the music industry has done! Common wisdom in retail is that when sales are
> bad you have a SALE. In the music industry "sale" is a four letter word so
> they've done exactly the opposite! The only time the price of a CD ever
> drops is when it gets moved to the "golden oldies" list.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm waiting to see is how they're going to break the $20 price
> barrier for a CD in the US. DVD's of much-more-expensive-to-produce films
> are going for $25-30 with the retail price of most new CD's now up to
> $19.99. Jack Valenti is happy to report (after repeatedly complaining about
> the specter of film piracy) that the film industry had a blockbuster take
> last year--is that why DVD's are so cheap compared to audio CD's and vice
> versa??
> 
> Remember a few years back when they discovered that there was a thriving
> market for used CD's and someone seriously suggested that we should all
> have to pay royalties on USED CD'S?? At least that idea didn't get
> anywhere...
> 
> >The big record companies are going broke because they can no longer tell
> >everyone what they WANT to hear...
> 
> It's almost as if there are some stone tablets somewhere written in the
> hand of the Almighty Himself that say "thou shalt realize a profit of at
> least <X> billion dollars a year in music sales or Congress must act", and
> they're keeping the faith most religiously. That and the fact that they're
> clinging to the long-dead "sell them expensive albums" marketing strategy
> when what most people really want is the hit single without all the filler.
> 
> >(I'm getting the best stuff from listmembers anyway... )
> 
> I'm sure nobody here is putting out hit singles padded with filler...
> 
> ---
> 
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
> 
> "You'd PAY to know what you REALLY think"--Dobbs


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Mar 23 17:49:46 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:49:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone!  (say, any CA3094's out there?)
References: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C9CB229.95ACF9A2@prodigy.net>

Hi Cynthia...

The manufacturers make these parts in the expectation that we will
buy millions of them. When that does not happen they eventually drop
them. The 3094 is a really OLD chip at this point.

Today they drop products because of greed and stupidity... often NEW
products which really does screw people over.

I think the CA3094 is no big deal... the LM13600/13700 has the same
architecture in a dual...  or try a 3080 and use your own darlington (or better
yet... FET) buffer.

If you are comitted to the layout then your idea of a little header would work.
The CA3080 is available in SMT package and you COULD fit it on a dip header...

H^) harry

Cynthia Webster wrote:

> Hi list!
>
> I just wanted to thanks everyone for being so helpful!
> Thanks to you, I found the search engine for the Archives, and am very
> grateful...
>
> (now I'm looking for CA3094 chips and - oh my!
> They're very scarce!
>
> Why?
>
> (What's the  *big idea* of these huge companies making things, and getting
> us to design stuff using their pinouts - only to have them Yank the product
> - saying it's "obsolete" and then *not* offering us any upgrade, equivalent
> or replacements?
>
> That's Not very nice!
>
> Of course I've spent hours and hours on a circuit only to find out *now*
> that the part's not available... Anyone want to sell two or three used ones?
>
> So well, now I'm wondering if it's possible to wire-up my own CA3094
> equivalent circuit onto an 8-pin dip header, as a sort of "Franken-Amp"
> to plug into the socket - where a *Real* CA3094 should be...
>
> Any ideas?
>
> (Did You say a room in Maui?  Really? The moonlight on the waves)?  LOL!
>
> Thanks Everybody!
>
> Cynthia

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 23 17:59:08 2002
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:59:08 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
In-Reply-To: <3C9C5F71.5C625DDF@success4business.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323095802.00a713e8@mail.earthlink.net>

Does the 3094 have any advantage over the 3080 except for the increased 
output drive capability?

   Ian



At 03:56 AM 3/23/2002, Peter M Blackett wrote:
>HI,
>found this link which gives I think more info about the ca3094
>http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Appnotes_Archive/an6077.pdf 
>
>I think they are used in the Moog 12 stage phaser and some maestro
>pedals .
>used to be available from Farnell , but not anymore unfortunately.
>regards Peter



From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 23 18:05:18 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:05:18 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] noise source crap out
In-Reply-To: <E16oof3-0002SK-00@albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <E16oof3-0002SK-00@albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020323.180518.23012070.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: "Magus Ship" <elmystico at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] noise source crap out
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:42:48 -0500

> the asm homepage at:
> http://www.it.kth.se/~e93_mda/synths/companies/stopp/
> has a pdf of their noise source, the differences between theirs and mine are
> negligible enough to ignore.

PLEASE!!!! Do NOT use that old link!

Use http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/ ONLY!

The old link goes to an account which has not been under my control
for years, and I can't update anything there.

Drawing any conclusion on things from that site is bogus, go to where
things at least have a theoretical chance of being updated.

I have tried many, many times to make folks use the right link, but no
luck it seems.

Cheers,
Magnus


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 23 18:13:50 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:13:50 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323095802.00a713e8@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <3C9C5F71.5C625DDF@success4business.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20020323095802.00a713e8@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020323.181350.69217693.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:59:08 -0700

> Does the 3094 have any advantage over the 3080 except for the increased 
> output drive capability?

Well, it doesn't have any increased output drive capability, it has an
added buffer, just like the 13600. The big point is that you can stick
in your capacitor or whatever and then buffer it before you
load. Buffering is thus much more important than drivecapability,
since also external curcuit hooked in at the OTA output/buffer input
will be buffered from the actual load.

Cheers,
Magnus


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Mar 23 18:18:48 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:18:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] noise source crap out
References: <E16ondA-0006qh-00@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9CB8F7.F3FA6E69@prodigy.net>

er... yes.

all of those.  I'd check the caps first though...

H^) harry

Magus Ship wrote:

> "All of a sudden" my homebuilt noise source, which is based on the
> Electronotes and ASM-1 designs has crapped out.  What used to be a rich hiss
> has become a futzy stream of what sounds like badly band pass filtered pink
> noise.  Around this time the ground connection at my power supply became
> desoldered (unrelated? related?).  My question is whether the transistor or
> the filter caps to get pink and Random Low Frequency outputs would be the
> problem.  Is it possible that a transistor that provides good noise can
> change or crap out over time?  Or is it more likely that a cap or a bad
> connection in the filters would produce this effect?
> thanks as always.
> Gavin

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From joris at joris.org  Sat Mar 23 18:19:59 2002
From: joris at joris.org (Joris)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:19:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Korg MS-20 potmeter
Message-ID: <01d801c1d28e$f88c0740$c37fa182@koepoort.tudelft.nl>


I'm having a hard time trying to find a replacement for a broken pot
of my MS20. It's the envelope generator 2 "hold time" pot, which is 2
Mohm type A. If it helps, there is some text stamped on it: 781E
followed by a capital N in a circle.

Of course there are pots with the same specs but I haven't been able
to find one that would physically fit nicely. Any suggestions would be
greatly appreciated.

Joris



From atom at suspicious.org  Sat Mar 23 18:35:28 2002
From: atom at suspicious.org (Atom 'Smasher')
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:35:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3C9CB20F.C7A02C37@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203231220200.19669-100000@spy.suspicious.org>

> The "fines" would go to Canadian artistes who are "...ostensibly harmed by piracy and who hold
> copyrights on music in Canada...",  Yea, like the Tragically Hip, Celine Dion, Shania Twain, Alanis
> Morisette, Bare Naked Ladies, etc, all need more money!
=============================

the $$$ would go to the artists who hold the copyright????

since when did the major labels sign anyone who was stubborn about keeping
the rights to their own work?

aside from metalica, the anti-napster posterBOYs, i can't think of any
artist on a major label who has any copyRIGHT to their own published
works.

the only ones crying fowl are the fat-cats at the top, who created this
whole mess when they decided to scrap vinyl (which still isn't feasable to
bootleg at home), and produce CDs, at cheaper production costs and higher
retails.
(and at the same time kill the 45, and otherwise mis-manage themselves
into the ground, while never skipping a bonus for themselves.)

the only real hope here, aside from all of us pointing out to the
congress-critters how stupid this whole thing is, is that the hardware and
software manufacterers will put their money into opposing the proposed
legislation.....

then again, would a company like micro$oft consider themselves to be aided
or harmed by a label on the box that says "this product is approved for
security by US govt"??? the fact that they are still in business is a bold
testament to how LITTLE most people know about computers, esp when it
comes to security.

the govt certifying all digital products for security.... makes me think
of that quote:
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music."
                     -- Julius Henry Marx


        ...atom

----------------Void-If-Detached----------------
http://smasher.suspicious.org/fs1r  Yamaha FS1R

	"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in
	 times of great moral crises maintain their neutrality."
		-- Dante Aleghieri (1265-1321)




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 18:50:20 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:50:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] noise source crap out
In-Reply-To: <E16ondA-0006qh-00@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020323175020.22231.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

Yo,

I don't think the caps are the problem. Here is how my
coffee-addled brain would approach it:

Step 1: Check power supplies on the opamps
Step 2: Ohm out the ground connections
Step 3: Inspect the board for cold joints etc.
Step 4: Flex board and listen for output changes
        --> if you hear changes, re-solder all joints
Step 5: If you have a scope, look at outputs of amps.
Look for distortion, heavy dc biases, clipping, etc.
Step 6: If the opamps are socketed, swap opamps one at
a time.
Step 7: Swap the transistor

Questions, queries, posers:

All outputs affected? Or just one?
Varies after turn-on? Or constant?

Hope that helps.

--TR

*******************************
When in doubt, gulp a Hexuccino
*******************************

--- Magus Ship <elmystico at earthlink.net> wrote:
> "All of a sudden" my homebuilt noise source, which
> is based on the
> Electronotes and ASM-1 designs has crapped out. 
> What used to be a rich hiss
> has become a futzy stream of what sounds like badly
> band pass filtered pink
> noise.  Around this time the ground connection at my
> power supply became
> desoldered (unrelated? related?).  My question is
> whether the transistor or
> the filter caps to get pink and Random Low Frequency
> outputs would be the
> problem.  Is it possible that a transistor that
> provides good noise can
> change or crap out over time?  Or is it more likely
> that a cap or a bad
> connection in the filters would produce this effect?
> thanks as always.
> Gavin 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 23 18:57:31 2002
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:57:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
In-Reply-To: <20020323.181350.69217693.cfmd@swipnet.se>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323095802.00a713e8@mail.earthlink.net>
 <3C9C5F71.5C625DDF@success4business.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020323095802.00a713e8@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323104823.00a633a8@mail.earthlink.net>

At 10:13 AM 3/23/2002, Magnus Danielson wrote:
>From: Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
>Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:59:08 -0700
>
> > Does the 3094 have any advantage over the 3080 except for the increased
> > output drive capability?
>
>Well, it doesn't have any increased output drive capability,

The app note says it can drive 300 mA peak. I don't believe a CA3080 can do 
that.

>  it has an
>added buffer, just like the 13600. The big point is that you can stick
>in your capacitor or whatever and then buffer it before you
>load. Buffering is thus much more important than drivecapability,
>since also external curcuit hooked in at the OTA output/buffer input
>will be buffered from the actual load.

Ah, so you would connect an integrating cap at the "external frequency 
compensation" pin, pin1.  I imagine you could also use the device as a 3080 
by taking the output current from pin 1?

   Ian


>Cheers,
>Magnus



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 19:04:36 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:04:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI question
Message-ID: <20020323180436.24024.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

Yo,

I just hooked up my nifty new midi kbd to my scope,
and guess what I found? The thing transmits a short
pulse when nothing else is going on. Is this some sort
of sync thing? Is this the din sync thing I keep
hearing about? If so, what does one do with this
pulse?

--TR

*****************************************
Sleep is for wimps. Happy, healthy, well-
rested wimps, but wimps nontheless.
*****************************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 23 19:12:27 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:12:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh organ???
Message-ID: <20020323181227.71955.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey all,

I posted this notion a bit ago, but my email is
somewhat unreliable. Since nobody responded, I guess
it never got out. So I'll say it again.

Can anybody hear me? Is this thing on?

I have a hankering to build an organ with a spare kbd
I have. It would use a TOG, bunches of dividers, and
VCAs for eack key, just like the Don Lancaster's
design which was in the June '76 Popular Electronics.

But then it occured to me: why not replace the diviers
with walsh generators? You would need bunches of
control lines, uP controled of course, and a butt-load
of diodes. And lots of solder. This would give you any
waveform you wanted.

Comments?

--TR

*****************************************
Repeating yourself is a sign on senility.
Repeating yourself is a sign on senility.
*****************************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 23 19:34:54 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:34:54 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323104823.00a633a8@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323095802.00a713e8@mail.earthlink.net>
	<20020323.181350.69217693.cfmd@swipnet.se>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20020323104823.00a633a8@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020323.193454.35007407.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:57:31 -0700

> At 10:13 AM 3/23/2002, Magnus Danielson wrote:
> >From: Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net>
> >Subject: Re: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
> >Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:59:08 -0700
> >
> > > Does the 3094 have any advantage over the 3080 except for the increased
> > > output drive capability?
> >
> >Well, it doesn't have any increased output drive capability,
> 
> The app note says it can drive 300 mA peak. I don't believe a CA3080 can do 
> that.

No, but that output will not operate in the OTA mode, it will provide
a voltage output, and that will have a drive capacity of 100 mA, with
a maximum at 300 mA.

> >  it has an
> >added buffer, just like the 13600. The big point is that you can stick
> >in your capacitor or whatever and then buffer it before you
> >load. Buffering is thus much more important than drivecapability,
> >since also external curcuit hooked in at the OTA output/buffer input
> >will be buffered from the actual load.
> 
> Ah, so you would connect an integrating cap at the "external frequency 
> compensation" pin, pin1.

Yeap! Up to that point, it is just a CA3080 in there!

>  I imagine you could also use the device as a 3080 
> by taking the output current from pin 1?

Indeed you can, indeed you can!

Cheers,
Magnus


From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sat Mar 23 19:36:00 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:36:00 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh organ???
References: <20020323181227.71955.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002501c1d299$95953f20$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Tim,

I saw your original post.

Original comment: Yikes!
Current comment: Yikes!

Since you want uP control why not do the TOG, Walsh, and the rest of it with
a DSP?

Take care
John


----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
To: Synth-Diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 10:12 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh organ???


> Hey all,
>
> I posted this notion a bit ago, but my email is
> somewhat unreliable. Since nobody responded, I guess
> it never got out. So I'll say it again.
>
> Can anybody hear me? Is this thing on?
>
> I have a hankering to build an organ with a spare kbd
> I have. It would use a TOG, bunches of dividers, and
> VCAs for eack key, just like the Don Lancaster's
> design which was in the June '76 Popular Electronics.
>
> But then it occured to me: why not replace the diviers
> with walsh generators? You would need bunches of
> control lines, uP controled of course, and a butt-load
> of diodes. And lots of solder. This would give you any
> waveform you wanted.
>
> Comments?
>
> --TR
>
> *****************************************
> Repeating yourself is a sign on senility.
> Repeating yourself is a sign on senility.
> *****************************************
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
> http://movies.yahoo.com/



From media.nai at rcn.com  Sat Mar 23 20:00:10 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:00:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Real Easy Juno 106 Question (plus a TR-707 whine at
 the end)
In-Reply-To: <3C9C4DAB.6EF9C4FE@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <v03130300b8c22b44e082@208.58.250.50>

At 4:40 AM -0500 03/23/02, Chromatest Pantsmaker wrote:
>
>On the bender board, what is the value of C1, it looks like it should
>be an electrolytic. It's just at the top of the board, just below the
>center connector.

I no longer have a 106, but I kept the schematics (I always keep the
schematics :)  Anyway, C1 is labeled "10/16".  I have no idea what the
@#$%& that is supposed to mean, but it is the same as C2 and C4.  I'd read
and measure one of those.  Imho, as power supply filters, their value
shouldn't matter much, and anything between 10uF and 22uF should work.

>Oh, if you're there, what are the values of R1-6

R1  18K
R2  10K
R3  10K
R4  10K
R5  33K
R6  2.2M

Aren't they color-coded??

>and D1-2.  For the Diodes, I used 1N914's  is this okay?  I can't tell
>what was supposed to be there.

It doesn't say, but based on the voltages, that's what I would try.

>that's all... TR-707 problems follow.
>
>everything works apparently properly (LED's, sounds, triggers, etc)
>except the sequencer portion when it resets to step 1.  It glitches
>everytime here.  If there is a sound (say BD1) at the first step, it
>will usually trigger that sound/step twice before resuming the pattern
>normally.  Also, when I select a pattern, I can only select
>every-other one.  When I select pattern 3 (from any bank) 3 will
>flash, and 4 will light up.  When I select pattern 4, 3 will flash,
>and 4 will light up.  When I select pattern 5, 5 flashes, 6 lights up,
>etc.  The only one different from this is pattern 1.  Pattern 1 will
>not play.  Pattern 2 will though.  Select pattern 2, led lights, 1
>flashes.  Press 1 and it flashes (no light at 2) and it won't start.
>
>pressing BD1 manually will trigger the sound though, so the button
>itself is okay.
>
>any ideas?

Yes, for less than $100, you can buy a working 707 :)




From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sat Mar 23 20:05:13 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:05:13 EST
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
Message-ID: <17b.5924fcd.29ce2be9@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/23/02 12:54:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
harrybissell at prodigy.net writes:


> Maybe its time for the industry to price products more in line with what
> their costs are...  Most people will PAY for a legitimate copy if the price
> is not VIOLENT RAPE...
> 
> 

I coined another good term for it, though usually used be me in conjuction 
with movie theater food prices and the price of water at shows ($4.50 for a 
pint of poland springs at the roxy in boston, I handed it back and told them 
"I'll drink your f*cking tap water, thank you") But also a very good 
description of the $17.00 Bile CD I just bought. That term is "FINANCIAL 
SODOMY"......I think record companies get off on this..as in (oooh..look, we 
can screw them and they can't do anything about it...wait, now they can, rev 
up the lawsuit machine and try to keep a lid on it)

-Chris


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020323/c9ca0b35/attachment.htm>

From edu at audiolist.cjb.net  Sat Mar 23 20:18:48 2002
From: edu at audiolist.cjb.net (Edu Silva)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Real Easy Juno 106 Question (plus a TR-707 whine atthe end)
References: <v03130300b8c22b44e082@208.58.250.50>
Message-ID: <3C9CD518.B1F8D7EB@audiolist.cjb.net>

Hi all,


media.nai at rcn.com wrote:
> 
> Anyway, C1 is labeled "10/16".  I have no idea what the
> @#$%& that is supposed to mean...


It?s 10uF/16V.


Edu Silva
http://audiolist.cjb.net


From alcratin at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 23 20:21:42 2002
From: alcratin at hotmail.com (Alex)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:21:42 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Importance of Matched Transistor Pair
References: <20020323181227.71955.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <002501c1d299$95953f20$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <OE23iR9Odutox7nyeKz000010d9@hotmail.com>

I'm kind of new at some of this, can anyone tell me what the importance of
using a matched transistor pair in a synth circuit vs. two individual
transistors?

I know that the Roland TB-303 uses a matched transistor and there's a synth
DIY site out of Scandinavia, that sites using a matched transistor pair for
his mono phonic synth. I want to build a modular synth and then I saw this,
can anyone provide me with some background on this on why it's used for
synth design? There are only 3 or 4 matched transistors that NTE provides.

Thanks.

Alex


From media.nai at rcn.com  Sat Mar 23 20:24:18 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:24:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI question
In-Reply-To: <20020323180436.24024.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <v03130301b8c23ece773f@208.58.249.151>

>I just hooked up my nifty new midi kbd to my scope,
>and guess what I found? The thing transmits a short
>pulse when nothing else is going on. Is this some sort
>of sync thing?

It could Active Sensing, which is part of System Real Time.  It's like that
phone company commercial, "can you hear me now?? can you hear me now??" and
just as stupid.  If you are curious, I'd use software like Kurweil's
MIDIscope and look at it.  Active Sensing is FEH in hex.

>Is this the din sync thing I keep
>hearing about?

No, din sync isn't part of MIDI.

>If so, what does one do with this pulse?

I'd turn it off, especially if you are using Clock or SysEx.





From media.nai at rcn.com  Sat Mar 23 20:26:59 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:26:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Real Easy Juno 106 Question (plus a TR-707 whine atthe
 end)
In-Reply-To: <3C9CD518.B1F8D7EB@audiolist.cjb.net>
References: <v03130300b8c22b44e082@208.58.250.50>
Message-ID: <v03130302b8c243969686@208.58.249.151>

>> Anyway, C1 is labeled "10/16".  I have no idea what the
>> @#$%& that is supposed to mean...
>
>
>It?s 10uF/16V.

Well, thanks, but they should have said that.  Considering that they are
16V caps on 15V rails, I'm not surprised that they need to be replaced.






From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sat Mar 23 20:27:46 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:27:46 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Score: Silicon 1, Tim 0
Message-ID: <161.ae6b504.29ce3132@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/23/02 6:09:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, cfmd at swipnet.se 
writes:


> First I had about the same picture as you, but that was the static
> view before time got released... and I started to figure what can
> happend when you concentrate such unbound imaginations in the same
> spot and let them loose... from the inside it could be a great feast,
> from the outside a big mess... we are talking about rewired
> electricity, we are talking about the endresult of the fire and
> explosives group, we are talking about the downing of several
> aircrafts due to the GigawattTheremin that the RF group put together
> etc. etc. isn't all this best covered in the "terrible mess" that I
> used?
> 
> 

And you're both forgetting something else...For any such room, there would 
need to be a basement full of junk about the size of a football field, which 
would probably reach critical mass at some point (further delighting the fire 
and explosives group)

-Chris (trying to back his own basement away from the critical mass threshold 
lately)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020323/4ac3cbf6/attachment.htm>

From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sat Mar 23 20:49:13 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:49:13 EST
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
Message-ID: <17a.592d3d8.29ce3639@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/23/02 11:51:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, psnow at magma.ca 
writes:


> but also
> raw memory (RAM, memory sticks etc), blank DVDs, MP3 and other music 
> players and, get this, $20 per
> Gigabyte levy on hard disk space - that's $1,200 tax on a 60gig hard drive! 
> 

Wow...I really must travel to canada sometime so I can sample the amazing 
potent form of crack cocaine they must have just developed. Even somebody 
smoking normal crack wouldn't come up with something that crazy, it being 
obvious what something like that would do to the computer industry. The whole 
idea of levying a tax of more than 100% of the purchase price of an item is 
nuts, taxes are designed to be percentage, not a multiple.

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020323/72134f37/attachment.htm>

From CHoaglin at aol.com  Sat Mar 23 20:55:55 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:55:55 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Real Easy Juno 106 Question (plus a TR-707 whine at the end)
Message-ID: <192.43fc826.29ce37cb@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/23/02 2:02:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
media.nai at rcn.com writes:


> Anyway, C1 is labeled "10/16".  I have no idea what the
> @#$%&

I'll hazard a guess: 10uF, 16V

-Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020323/c4b6d0dc/attachment.htm>

From psnow at magma.ca  Sat Mar 23 20:58:35 2002
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:58:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <17a.592d3d8.29ce3639@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CDE6B.CA43AAB0@magma.ca>

Chris,

It's truly amazing, isn't it. 
I get the feeling it's the old trick of asking for something ridiculous so that after all the
arguing and horse-trading you'll end up getting what you wanted in the first place.

I don't see why they should get even a bent nickel...

Cheers,

Peter


From deknow at deknow.com  Sat Mar 23 22:25:02 2002
From: deknow at deknow.com (deknow)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:25:02 -0800
Subject: the future independant musician was:Re: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSO.4.33L2.0203231220200.19669-100000@spy.suspicious.org>
Message-ID: <003801c1d2b1$32f13f00$31a37ed8@waldo>

i see a few things in the future:

1.  artists have the power now to make their own music, produce and record
it "at home" with good results (not the "demo home studio" of yesteryear
that was used to get someone else to pay the bill for a "real recording").

2.  a good number of artists are willing to give "the public" free access to
their work...at least as long as there is no "corporate fat cat" making $$
off of it. (i will almost always play a gig for free if there is free
admision, and no one is making money).

3.  there will be those who try to package "freely released music" and make
money on it....it will be the job of an artist not to make material
available to them (except where it suits the artists need to be publicized).

4.  i doubt that ascap or bmi will be serving the small, independant
musician for very long....once independant musicians really hold their own
copyrights and intrests, then there is no reason for venues presenting such
music to pay bmi or ascap...unless they are presenting "industry supported
mainstream big money music"...there will always be a market for brittney
spears and michale jackson style music/concerts...this is what bmi and ascap
will focus on.

5.  in the end, i think an artist will make $$ by releasing some material
for free to the public (and possibly the corporate profit makers), and by
selling "performances"..ie, the material never exists as a recording that is
available except for "live performance" or an "exclusive presentation"...the
original digital recording never gets into the hands of anyone who would
copy/distribute it.  this way, the artist gets paid directly from the venue,
and not by the bmi/ascap "pool" of fees.

just mho.

deknow




From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Mar 23 23:09:11 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:09:11 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Importance of Matched Transistor Pair
References: <20020323181227.71955.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <002501c1d299$95953f20$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <OE23iR9Odutox7nyeKz000010d9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CFD07.B328F926@silcom.com>

    To keep it as simple as posible...

    In general, the matched pairs are used for the exponential converters (they
can also be used for other things, but when it comes to synths, expo converters
are the number one job, followed by ladder filter pairs, also found in the
TB303).  There are quite a few ways that transistors can drift with
temperature, by using a matched pair, all of these drifting parameters track
each other, so if you look at both at the same time, it apears there is no
drift....

    Generally, what needs to be matched in matched pairs is the Vbe of the
transistor.  Another important thing about matched pairs is they must be
thermally connected.  After you match a pair of transistors, you generally
should glue them together (I use epoxy).  However, the best way is to buy
matched transistors.  The most common one availiable is the CA3046 (actually
five matched transistors).  The CA3046 is also the least expensive.  Other
canidates are MAT02, MAT03, MAT04 (4 transistors), THAT200/220/240, some
japanese transistors I don't remember the numbers for (somebody else will come
up with them, last time I tried, I got them wrong).

Alex wrote:

> I'm kind of new at some of this, can anyone tell me what the importance of
> using a matched transistor pair in a synth circuit vs. two individual
> transistors?
>
> I know that the Roland TB-303 uses a matched transistor and there's a synth
> DIY site out of Scandinavia, that sites using a matched transistor pair for
> his mono phonic synth. I want to build a modular synth and then I saw this,
> can anyone provide me with some background on this on why it's used for
> synth design? There are only 3 or 4 matched transistors that NTE provides.

    I have purchased these in the past, they are good parts...

>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alex

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From eq927 at freenet.carleton.ca  Sat Mar 23 23:25:33 2002
From: eq927 at freenet.carleton.ca (eq927 at freenet.carleton.ca)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:25:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] more ca3094 info
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323095802.00a713e8@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9D00DD.7861@ncf.ca>

The CA3094 is probably  less desirable than the CA3080 for  vcf 
applications - unless you want something really simple - the base of the 
internal Darlington buffer is connected internally to the output of the 
OTA proper - no way of disconnecting it so you could use a FET buffer in 
it's place. The collector of the input transistor of the Darlington is 
connected internally to the Vcc(+) pin, however the emitter and the 
collector of the second transistor are brought out to pins. Nevertheless 
it was used in the Moog rack phaser and several Electroharmonix boxes. 
The LM13600/700 is probably preferable in every respect.
Mike


From suoiciv at freebox.com  Sun Mar 24 00:15:07 2002
From: suoiciv at freebox.com (miffo man)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:15:07 +0100 (CET)
Subject: OOPS! Re: [sdiy] pre/post switch
In-Reply-To: <3C84F755.5090704@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <1093753.1016925307834.JavaMail.orion@britney.freebox.com>

how do i unscribe from this newsletter?..
PLEASE HELP

__________________________________________________
FreeBox - The World's Finest Web Mail Solution
Get your own FREE email at http://www.freebox.com/



From synth1 at airmail.net  Sun Mar 24 00:34:41 2002
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:34:41 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Important CEM chip info
Message-ID: <000b01c1d2c3$4e8b6b20$71765140@speakeasy.net>

Due to recent credit card fraud, I will no longer accept email/credit card orders for CEM chips.
It's back to the good old days of Money Orders via snail mail (my humble beginnings).

The few outstanding orders will be shipped next week. Further email requests will be ignored.

Current availability is at:

http://www.synthtech.com/cems.html

Sorry for the harsh stance. It business folks, and I got screwed big time by:

Stephen Hennessey
Gordon Road, Lozells
Birmingham, UK

With $300 plane tickets, I might fly over there and deal with it :(

Paul Schreiber
Synthesis Technology




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 00:44:01 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:44:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
Message-ID: <20020323234401.54208.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

To all,

AS you might have noticed, I kinda got distracted by
this little midi project. No, I haven't forgotten
about the Walsh thing. The board layout is done except
for checking. I am planning on sending the board out
for fab real soon now. The CPLD design has been done
for a while, its time for me to do the next part.

<------------------------------------------------>
In the spirit of the list, does anyone want to
volunteer to check the layout? I can mail a package
with all the docs. Don't have my PDF writer yet, so it
has to be snail-mail.
<------------------------------------------------>

This board will just be a breakout board for the Walsh
CPLD. I have provided for both molex-style connectors
(0.1") and dual-row header for ribbon cable. You can
also populate the connector pins with machine SIP
sockets to accept 24 ga solid wire.

This little kit will consist of board, CPLD, and
socket. Price will be in the $20-$25 range depending
on how much the boards cost me. I'm not trying to get
rich here, just trying to cover my costs.

I will let you know when the stuff is available.

--TR

**************************
My envelope generator does
both letter and legal size
**************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 00:44:38 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:44:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OOPS! Re: [sdiy] pre/post switch
In-Reply-To: <1093753.1016925307834.JavaMail.orion@britney.freebox.com>
Message-ID: <20020323234438.79928.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>

Why on earth would you WANT to???

--- miffo man <suoiciv at freebox.com> wrote:
> how do i unscribe from this newsletter?..
> PLEASE HELP
> 
> __________________________________________________
> FreeBox - The World's Finest Web Mail Solution
> Get your own FREE email at http://www.freebox.com/
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Mar 24 00:53:22 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:53:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] importance of Matched Transistor Pair
References: <20020323181227.71955.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <002501c1d299$95953f20$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <OE23iR9Odutox7nyeKz000010d9@hotmail.com> <3C9CFD07.B328F926@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c1d2c5$fe6e0d20$ee78b9d9@debitel.net>

>     Generally, what needs to be matched in matched pairs is the Vbe of the
> transistor.

Right. There are exceptions, however.
The transistors in Korg VCAs should be matched for the same signal
attenuation
at a certain base current. I just selected  48 2SC945's that way (can you
guess what my next project is ?), and I also checked for the beta of these
selected transistors, and it looks like selecting for beta is fine for the
Korg VCA selection.

For the envelope generators of the same project, I have to match groups of
13 transistors rather than pairs (4 cards with 12 ADSRs each ...)
These must be matched for Vbe.

Korg PS-synths have become so exceedingly expensive now that
building your own from scratch starts to make sense ...

Anybody knows of a source in Europe for 10k linear pull-pots ?

JH.




From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Mar 24 06:03:22 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:03:22 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Latest Project
Message-ID: <3C9D5E1A.F3594801@silcom.com>

    Here is something I have been working on for about a month
now...actually a fairly simple project...although, it does have a lot of
parts on it.  It is a 16 x 8 patern generator.  This is intended for a
sequencer project I have been working on for a while...

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Mar 24 06:09:13 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:09:13 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] [OT]Source for Obscure Sheet Music
Message-ID: <3C9D5F79.6FA8766D@silcom.com>

    Very obscure sheet music...I know this is sort of off topic, but, at
least it involves music.  And I am always surprised sometimes at the
responses I get...

    Here is what I am looking for:
    The Belle of the Monon
    Hoosier Time
    Monticello Moon
    Up and Down the Monon

    Music was by McGee and Haynes
    Published by the Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville Railroad Company
(Monon)

    If I am lucky, there will be a Hoosier on the list that has copies.
I am only interested in these for the music...I am not looking to
purchase original sheet music.  Guess you can say I am feeling my
Indiana roots...I had family in Logansport and Monticello.

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From rob at arachnoids.org  Sun Mar 24 06:15:02 2002
From: rob at arachnoids.org (Rob Mantel)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:15:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
Message-ID: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>

Hi all,

For quite some time now I've been wondering what the correct way is to mount
small toggle switches on a frontpanel. I'm talking about the miniature ones
that mount in a 1/4" hole.

Looking at the pictures in the datasheets, it looks like (from outside to
inside): hex nut, panel, locking ring, lockwasher, hex nut.

One problem with this, when you tighten the hex nut at the outside, how do
you prevent it from damaging the panel?

Easy solution would be to add an extra flat washer under the outside hex
nut, but these are never? supplied with the switch, and I havn't been able
to find a source for small washers that would fit. You would want washers
with a hole of 1/4", and an outside diameter of only 3/8".

Anyone know another way to do this? Or have a source for the washers that
IMHO should be supplied with the switches?

Thanks,
Rob




From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Mar 24 07:02:23 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:02:23 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Latest Project
References: <3C9D5E1A.F3594801@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D6BEF.DCE6AF95@silcom.com>

    You know....this message would have been a whole lot more effective
if...I had given the URL...like this:
http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/synthmodules/patgen.html


patchell wrote:

>     Here is something I have been working on for about a month
> now...actually a fairly simple project...although, it does have a lot of
> parts on it.  It is a 16 x 8 patern generator.  This is intended for a
> sequencer project I have been working on for a while...
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar 24 07:12:02 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:12:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net>

One way is to use (from the inside of the box...)

Switch
Hex nut
lockwasher
anti-rotation washer (optional)
PANEL
hex nut or dress nut.

You tighten the nut from the BACK... use a really thin wrench.
I ground down a small ignition wrench to the thickness of the
nut.

The dress nuts come in two varieties. I'd use the ones that are not
threaded all the way through. Tighten them finger tight from the
 front... then wrench from behind.

If they are really close together... this is HARD to do

H^) harry

Rob Mantel wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> For quite some time now I've been wondering what the correct way is to mount
> small toggle switches on a frontpanel. I'm talking about the miniature ones
> that mount in a 1/4" hole.
>
> Looking at the pictures in the datasheets, it looks like (from outside to
> inside): hex nut, panel, locking ring, lockwasher, hex nut.
>
> One problem with this, when you tighten the hex nut at the outside, how do
> you prevent it from damaging the panel?
>
> Easy solution would be to add an extra flat washer under the outside hex
> nut, but these are never? supplied with the switch, and I havn't been able
> to find a source for small washers that would fit. You would want washers
> with a hole of 1/4", and an outside diameter of only 3/8".
>
> Anyone know another way to do this? Or have a source for the washers that
> IMHO should be supplied with the switches?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From 8brain at spiritone.com  Sun Mar 24 08:42:34 2002
From: 8brain at spiritone.com (RFahl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:42:34 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Elektor Ring Modulator
Message-ID: <B8C2C36A.3FC7%8brain@spiritone.com>

Hello,

I have posted the Elektor Ring Modulator article to my ISP account
temporarily. 

http://www.spiritone.com/~8brain/schems/Elektor_RM/

Nice 1496 based Ring Mod. The article's in german, but the schematic speaks
for itself. Also has PCB pattern. If you have room to host permanently,
please let me know.

Anybody have the English version?

RFahl



From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 24 09:44:53 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:44:53
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone!  (say, any CA3094's out there?)
Message-ID: <20020324174508.YIXR21585.out004.verizon.net@mail.lan>

cyborgzero at comcast.net wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "harry" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>To: "Cynthia Webster" <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
>Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 11:49 AM
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone! (say, any CA3094's out there?)
>
>
>> If you are comitted to the layout then your idea of a little header
>would work.
>> The CA3080 is available in SMT package and you COULD fit it on a dip
>header...
>
>Well, this might be the heart of it: you can still get a lot of parts,
>but *only* in smt, since thats what the industry uses more often, 

This is absolutely true.  Economics 101.  It is precisely why
the DIP is disappearing in preference for SMT.  SMT goes
together less expensively in a mass production environment.
Mass producers buy parts in the largest quantities, therefore,
mass producers set the paradigm by simple market forces.

>plus
>they charge you the same amount or more and use less resources.

First, I don't see how this matters, but more importantly,
I don't see how you can make this assumption.  Simply because
there's a little less plastic involved?  Do you have a copy
of their balance sheets to show this numerically?  I dare say 
that the plastic is one of the least expensive resource applied.
Don't you think that it's remotely possible that the equipment
used and personnel involved might really be more expensive?
Manufactures of anything do not set pricing using a special
"evil" calculator, where they plug in, say, "synth-diy" and 
the price doubles.  Rather, prices are set by real market
forces including such things as bulk run size, cost of raw
material, cost of marketing, cost of labor, cost of tooling,
cost of equipment and it's maintenance and how quickly the
parts disappear from inventory.  It's simple economics, not
psycho-evil intent.  They compete with each other.  The guy
selling his parts for the least per unit price wins the
business.  Always.  They do not get together at some big
evil-meanies meeting and set prices just to gouge you and I.

Practicalities.

And I don't like this any more than any of the rest of us,
but it is not useful to decry the industry as inherently
evil because they don't cater to our comparative ultra tiny 
fart in the wind-tunnel market.  What they do makes simple 
economic sense.

>Rob
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 24 09:50:45 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:50:45
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
Message-ID: <20020324175051.NAGK8115.out016.verizon.net@mail.lan>

"John L Marshall" <john.l.marshall at gte.net> wrote:
>Magnus,
>
>It seems that you would want each note within an octave and each octave to
>have the same timbre. But, with the walsh generator you would want to freely
>manipulate the timbre, maybe through time. How are going to do that?
>Wouldn't it be cool to convert from Walsh to sine series and have sine
>octave draw bars?

This is a cool idea, it would be very conventionally intuitive 
performance-wise.  

Has anyone got any mp3 examples of what happens when one Walsh
coefficient is varied?  Would it be as useful to have Walsh
coefficient controls at the front panel as it would sine type
drawbars?

>The Walsh series would be longest for the lowest octave of notes but be very
>short for the highest octave unless your TOG is 32 or 64 times the highest
>note to be played.

PLLs on each of the TOG outputs could track and frequency multiply
the 12 pitches.  Lot's of parts though, at least two ICs per note.

>Take care,
>John
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>
>To: <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
>Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 5:29 AM
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Walsh update
>
>
>> From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:44:01 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> > To all,
>> >
>> > AS you might have noticed, I kinda got distracted by
>> > this little midi project. No, I haven't forgotten
>> > about the Walsh thing. The board layout is done except
>> > for checking. I am planning on sending the board out
>> > for fab real soon now. The CPLD design has been done
>> > for a while, its time for me to do the next part.
>> >
>> > <------------------------------------------------>
>> > In the spirit of the list, does anyone want to
>> > volunteer to check the layout? I can mail a package
>> > with all the docs. Don't have my PDF writer yet, so it
>> > has to be snail-mail.
>> > <------------------------------------------------>
>> >
>> > This board will just be a breakout board for the Walsh
>> > CPLD. I have provided for both molex-style connectors
>> > (0.1") and dual-row header for ribbon cable. You can
>> > also populate the connector pins with machine SIP
>> > sockets to accept 24 ga solid wire.
>> >
>> > This little kit will consist of board, CPLD, and
>> > socket. Price will be in the $20-$25 range depending
>> > on how much the boards cost me. I'm not trying to get
>> > rich here, just trying to cover my costs.
>> >
>> > I will let you know when the stuff is available.
>>
>> Question:
>>
>> Why do you need a CPLD?
>> You can create any size of Walsh generator with a frequency divider
>> and a handfull of XNOR gates. For a organ setup, all you need is the
>> TOG part and 12 Walsh generators.
>>
>> Maybe I should do a simulation and hand it out.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 24 10:26:26 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:26:26
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
Message-ID: <20020324182633.NFAQ6775.out001.verizon.net@mail.lan>

music.maker at gte.net wrote:
>"John L Marshall" <john.l.marshall at gte.net> wrote:
>>Magnus,
>>
>>It seems that you would want each note within an octave and each octave to
>>have the same timbre. But, with the walsh generator you would want to freely
>>manipulate the timbre, maybe through time. How are going to do that?
>>Wouldn't it be cool to convert from Walsh to sine series and have sine
>>octave draw bars?
>
>This is a cool idea, it would be very conventionally intuitive 
>performance-wise.  
>
>Has anyone got any mp3 examples of what happens when one Walsh
>coefficient is varied?  Would it be as useful to have Walsh
>coefficient controls at the front panel as it would sine type
>drawbars?
>
>>The Walsh series would be longest for the lowest octave of notes but be very
>>short for the highest octave unless your TOG is 32 or 64 times the highest
>>note to be played.
>
>PLLs on each of the TOG outputs could track and frequency multiply
>the 12 pitches.  Lot's of parts though, at least two ICs per note.

I might add here that a modulation signal can also be applied.
I found that a PLL tracking a pitch can be nicely vibratoed by
injecting an LFO signal mixed with the loop filter output feeding
the VCO input.  Again, lots of parts, but a separate LFO for
each pitch would give a fair amount of character.  Though as I
said, it would be a whole mess of parts.  In the end, perhaps
12 discrete oscillators with analog harmonic generation make the 
most sense in terms of building.

>>Take care,
>>John
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>
>>To: <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
>>Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 5:29 AM
>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Walsh update
>>
>>
>>> From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
>>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:44:01 -0800 (PST)
>>>
>>> > To all,
>>> >
>>> > AS you might have noticed, I kinda got distracted by
>>> > this little midi project. No, I haven't forgotten
>>> > about the Walsh thing. The board layout is done except
>>> > for checking. I am planning on sending the board out
>>> > for fab real soon now. The CPLD design has been done
>>> > for a while, its time for me to do the next part.
>>> >
>>> > <------------------------------------------------>
>>> > In the spirit of the list, does anyone want to
>>> > volunteer to check the layout? I can mail a package
>>> > with all the docs. Don't have my PDF writer yet, so it
>>> > has to be snail-mail.
>>> > <------------------------------------------------>
>>> >
>>> > This board will just be a breakout board for the Walsh
>>> > CPLD. I have provided for both molex-style connectors
>>> > (0.1") and dual-row header for ribbon cable. You can
>>> > also populate the connector pins with machine SIP
>>> > sockets to accept 24 ga solid wire.
>>> >
>>> > This little kit will consist of board, CPLD, and
>>> > socket. Price will be in the $20-$25 range depending
>>> > on how much the boards cost me. I'm not trying to get
>>> > rich here, just trying to cover my costs.
>>> >
>>> > I will let you know when the stuff is available.
>>>
>>> Question:
>>>
>>> Why do you need a CPLD?
>>> You can create any size of Walsh generator with a frequency divider
>>> and a handfull of XNOR gates. For a organ setup, all you need is the
>>> TOG part and 12 Walsh generators.
>>>
>>> Maybe I should do a simulation and hand it out.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Magnus
>>
>
>=========================================================  
>- Government: The other religion.
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
>-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sun Mar 24 14:29:12 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:29:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
In-Reply-To: <20020323234401.54208.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020323234401.54208.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020324.142912.74755404.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:44:01 -0800 (PST)

> To all,
> 
> AS you might have noticed, I kinda got distracted by
> this little midi project. No, I haven't forgotten
> about the Walsh thing. The board layout is done except
> for checking. I am planning on sending the board out
> for fab real soon now. The CPLD design has been done
> for a while, its time for me to do the next part.
> 
> <------------------------------------------------>
> In the spirit of the list, does anyone want to
> volunteer to check the layout? I can mail a package
> with all the docs. Don't have my PDF writer yet, so it
> has to be snail-mail.
> <------------------------------------------------>
> 
> This board will just be a breakout board for the Walsh
> CPLD. I have provided for both molex-style connectors
> (0.1") and dual-row header for ribbon cable. You can
> also populate the connector pins with machine SIP
> sockets to accept 24 ga solid wire.
> 
> This little kit will consist of board, CPLD, and
> socket. Price will be in the $20-$25 range depending
> on how much the boards cost me. I'm not trying to get
> rich here, just trying to cover my costs.
> 
> I will let you know when the stuff is available.

Question:

Why do you need a CPLD?
You can create any size of Walsh generator with a frequency divider
and a handfull of XNOR gates. For a organ setup, all you need is the
TOG part and 12 Walsh generators.

Maybe I should do a simulation and hand it out.

Cheers,
Magnus


From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Sun Mar 24 15:13:46 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:13:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>
 <3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c1d33e$1d3489a0$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>

deep welled sockets of the appropriate size work okay too, but be
careful that you put a washer down first so it doesn't touch the panel
surface.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "harry" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
To: "Rob Mantel" <rob at arachnoids.org>
Cc: "SynthDIYmailinglist" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches


> One way is to use (from the inside of the box...)
>
> Switch
> Hex nut
> lockwasher
> anti-rotation washer (optional)
> PANEL
> hex nut or dress nut.
>
> You tighten the nut from the BACK... use a really thin wrench.
> I ground down a small ignition wrench to the thickness of the
> nut.
>
> The dress nuts come in two varieties. I'd use the ones that are not
> threaded all the way through. Tighten them finger tight from the
>  front... then wrench from behind.
>
> If they are really close together... this is HARD to do
>
> H^) harry
>
> Rob Mantel wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > For quite some time now I've been wondering what the correct way
is to mount
> > small toggle switches on a frontpanel. I'm talking about the
miniature ones
> > that mount in a 1/4" hole.
> >
> > Looking at the pictures in the datasheets, it looks like (from
outside to
> > inside): hex nut, panel, locking ring, lockwasher, hex nut.
> >
> > One problem with this, when you tighten the hex nut at the
outside, how do
> > you prevent it from damaging the panel?
> >
> > Easy solution would be to add an extra flat washer under the
outside hex
> > nut, but these are never? supplied with the switch, and I havn't
been able
> > to find a source for small washers that would fit. You would want
washers
> > with a hole of 1/4", and an outside diameter of only 3/8".
> >
> > Anyone know another way to do this? Or have a source for the
washers that
> > IMHO should be supplied with the switches?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rob
>
> --
> Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
> Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
> Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
> go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
> hide... how about YOU ???
>
>



From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 24 15:06:54 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:06:54
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone!  (say, any CA3094's out there?)
Message-ID: <20020324230703.OFLF11449.out012.verizon.net@mail.lan>

About all I can suggest to be able to stay the course,
is if you think you may need certain DIP parts, and they
are available now, buy a pile.  I am trying to amass a
stock of stuff I think I will need before they go the
way of the dinosaur.  One good reason is that as time
goes by, the price will likely only increase.  Buying
them now might save you money in the long run.  Look
what some once popular and cheap chips now go for.
Some are so rare that we are willing to pay big bucks
for USED ones.  Their rarity has caused those who still 
need them to compete more heavily for them.  At least 
there is this forum, where if I were to buy way too many 
of something, I might be able to help someone out here 
who needs what I have.

As a friend of mine likes to say:  "Wish in one hand, 
sh!t in the other.  Which one fills up first?"

cyborgzero at comcast.net wrote:
>
>> >plus
>> >they charge you the same amount or more and use less resources.
>>
>> First, I don't see how this matters, but more importantly,
>> I don't see how you can make this assumption.  Simply because
>> there's a little less plastic involved?
>
>Actually, plastic and leads, so, yes, it is well within their
>interests to go to SMT. Not like I am complaining, I love the fact
>that I can fit more in less and have been doing so for quite a long
>time.
>
>I guess the part that I don't like about SMT is that there is a LOT of
>brokering that tends to have parts tied up for us little ppl.
>
>For example, you don't have to buy 2000 from digikey to get dip parts,
>but for certain smt parts, the minimum buy is 2000! Begging to get a
>hundred of them shouldn't be part of the picture, but, unfortunately
>it is.
>
>So, yes, the parts are out there, but, NO, you can't afford to buy any
>in the lots they require you to buy.
>
>And, no there is no evil plot, although it does work out that way
>sometimes.
>
>Rob
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 24 15:11:14 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:11:14
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
Message-ID: <20020324231126.OLJV8115.out016.verizon.net@mail.lan>

Isn't the D-10 a digital (CPU based) synth?  I think that
the D-110 has a similar (and I'm told cut down) internal
engine.  If so, I doubt that it can be modified in any 
useful way.  I've written software to allow easy tone data
modification for my D-110, but I doubt it would work on
a D-10 if my friend is right.  I always thought the D-110
was just a D-10 without the keyboard, but he told me this
isn't the case.

<yashk2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I've got an ageing (to put things mildly) Roland D-10. I'd like to get rid
>of the hiss as well as learn any other possible modifications that I can
>bring to my synth.
>
>If I cannot mod it, I'll probaby try to salvage it for parts to build
>another synth. Do you think that could be possible?
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Yash.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun Mar 24 16:32:23 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:32:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com><3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net> <000c01c1d33e$1d3489a0$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <028a01c1d349$1853c120$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Tighten the hex-nut from the back with your fingers,
then add PU or epoxy glue.
A rather permanent solution, but looks ok from the out side.

Theo


From: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>

> deep welled sockets of the appropriate size work okay too, but be
> careful that you put a washer down first so it doesn't touch the panel
> surface.
> 
> Rob
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "harry" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> To: "Rob Mantel" <rob at arachnoids.org>
> Cc: "SynthDIYmailinglist" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
> 
> 
> > One way is to use (from the inside of the box...)
> >
> > Switch
> > Hex nut
> > lockwasher
> > anti-rotation washer (optional)
> > PANEL
> > hex nut or dress nut.
> >
> > You tighten the nut from the BACK... use a really thin wrench.
> > I ground down a small ignition wrench to the thickness of the
> > nut.
> >
> > The dress nuts come in two varieties. I'd use the ones that are not
> > threaded all the way through. Tighten them finger tight from the
> >  front... then wrench from behind.
> >
> > If they are really close together... this is HARD to do
> >
> > H^) harry
> >
> > Rob Mantel wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > For quite some time now I've been wondering what the correct way
> is to mount
> > > small toggle switches on a frontpanel. I'm talking about the
> miniature ones
> > > that mount in a 1/4" hole.
> > >
> > > Looking at the pictures in the datasheets, it looks like (from
> outside to
> > > inside): hex nut, panel, locking ring, lockwasher, hex nut.
> > >
> > > One problem with this, when you tighten the hex nut at the
> outside, how do
> > > you prevent it from damaging the panel?
> > >
> > > Easy solution would be to add an extra flat washer under the
> outside hex
> > > nut, but these are never? supplied with the switch, and I havn't
> been able
> > > to find a source for small washers that would fit. You would want
> washers
> > > with a hole of 1/4", and an outside diameter of only 3/8".
> > >
> > > Anyone know another way to do this? Or have a source for the
> washers that
> > > IMHO should be supplied with the switches?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Rob
> >
> > --
> > Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
> > Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
> > Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
> > go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
> > hide... how about YOU ???
> >
> >
> 
> 



From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Mar 24 16:58:01 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:58:01 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Found two of them...
Message-ID: <3C9DF788.1BB92C94@silcom.com>

    I found two of the songs I was looking for.

    For rail fans on the group, Up and Down the Monon can be found here
as a Midi File

    http://www.claras.com/railroad/

    Harry should have known about this one  :-)....they are located in
Michigan.

    I have a bid on The Belle of the Monon on Ebay...

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sun Mar 24 17:57:46 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 08:57:46 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com><3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net> <000c01c1d33e$1d3489a0$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net> <028a01c1d349$1853c120$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <004401c1d355$0634f7a0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

How about "locktite"?


----- Original Message -----
From: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
To: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>; harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>; Rob Mantel
<rob at arachnoids.org>
Cc: SynthDIYmailinglist <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches


> Tighten the hex-nut from the back with your fingers,
> then add PU or epoxy glue.
> A rather permanent solution, but looks ok from the out side.
>
> Theo
>
>
> From: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>
>
> > deep welled sockets of the appropriate size work okay too, but be
> > careful that you put a washer down first so it doesn't touch the panel
> > surface.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "harry" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> > To: "Rob Mantel" <rob at arachnoids.org>
> > Cc: "SynthDIYmailinglist" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:12 AM
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
> >
> >
> > > One way is to use (from the inside of the box...)
> > >
> > > Switch
> > > Hex nut
> > > lockwasher
> > > anti-rotation washer (optional)
> > > PANEL
> > > hex nut or dress nut.
> > >
> > > You tighten the nut from the BACK... use a really thin wrench.
> > > I ground down a small ignition wrench to the thickness of the
> > > nut.
> > >
> > > The dress nuts come in two varieties. I'd use the ones that are not
> > > threaded all the way through. Tighten them finger tight from the
> > >  front... then wrench from behind.
> > >
> > > If they are really close together... this is HARD to do
> > >
> > > H^) harry
> > >
> > > Rob Mantel wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > For quite some time now I've been wondering what the correct way
> > is to mount
> > > > small toggle switches on a frontpanel. I'm talking about the
> > miniature ones
> > > > that mount in a 1/4" hole.
> > > >
> > > > Looking at the pictures in the datasheets, it looks like (from
> > outside to
> > > > inside): hex nut, panel, locking ring, lockwasher, hex nut.
> > > >
> > > > One problem with this, when you tighten the hex nut at the
> > outside, how do
> > > > you prevent it from damaging the panel?
> > > >
> > > > Easy solution would be to add an extra flat washer under the
> > outside hex
> > > > nut, but these are never? supplied with the switch, and I havn't
> > been able
> > > > to find a source for small washers that would fit. You would want
> > washers
> > > > with a hole of 1/4", and an outside diameter of only 3/8".
> > > >
> > > > Anyone know another way to do this? Or have a source for the
> > washers that
> > > > IMHO should be supplied with the switches?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Rob
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
> > > Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
> > > Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
> > > go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
> > > hide... how about YOU ???
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>



From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Sun Mar 24 18:20:59 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:20:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone!  (say, any CA3094's out there?)
References: <B8C16E22.337F%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
 <3C9CB229.95ACF9A2@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <001801c1d358$446a8960$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: "harry" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
To: "Cynthia Webster" <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone! (say, any CA3094's out there?)


> If you are comitted to the layout then your idea of a little header
would work.
> The CA3080 is available in SMT package and you COULD fit it on a dip
header...

Well, this might be the heart of it: you can still get a lot of parts,
but *only* in smt, since thats what the industry uses more often, plus
they charge you the same amount or more and use less resources.

Rob




From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sun Mar 24 18:24:39 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:24:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
References: <20020323234401.54208.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> <20020324.142912.74755404.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <004d01c1d358$c8617ee0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Magnus,

It seems that you would want each note within an octave and each octave to
have the same timbre. But, with the walsh generator you would want to freely
manipulate the timbre, maybe through time. How are going to do that?
Wouldn't it be cool to convert from Walsh to sine series and have sine
octave draw bars?

The Walsh series would be longest for the lowest octave of notes but be very
short for the highest octave unless your TOG is 32 or 64 times the highest
note to be played.

Take care,
John

----- Original Message -----
From: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>
To: <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Walsh update


> From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:44:01 -0800 (PST)
>
> > To all,
> >
> > AS you might have noticed, I kinda got distracted by
> > this little midi project. No, I haven't forgotten
> > about the Walsh thing. The board layout is done except
> > for checking. I am planning on sending the board out
> > for fab real soon now. The CPLD design has been done
> > for a while, its time for me to do the next part.
> >
> > <------------------------------------------------>
> > In the spirit of the list, does anyone want to
> > volunteer to check the layout? I can mail a package
> > with all the docs. Don't have my PDF writer yet, so it
> > has to be snail-mail.
> > <------------------------------------------------>
> >
> > This board will just be a breakout board for the Walsh
> > CPLD. I have provided for both molex-style connectors
> > (0.1") and dual-row header for ribbon cable. You can
> > also populate the connector pins with machine SIP
> > sockets to accept 24 ga solid wire.
> >
> > This little kit will consist of board, CPLD, and
> > socket. Price will be in the $20-$25 range depending
> > on how much the boards cost me. I'm not trying to get
> > rich here, just trying to cover my costs.
> >
> > I will let you know when the stuff is available.
>
> Question:
>
> Why do you need a CPLD?
> You can create any size of Walsh generator with a frequency divider
> and a handfull of XNOR gates. For a organ setup, all you need is the
> TOG part and 12 Walsh generators.
>
> Maybe I should do a simulation and hand it out.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sun Mar 24 18:32:36 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:32:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Latest Project
References: <3C9D5E1A.F3594801@silcom.com> <3C9D6BEF.DCE6AF95@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <005301c1d359$e3dc4be0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Jim,

Do you have C&K stock?

I am working on a similar design but I am using thumbwheel switches. Not as
intuitive because you must do decimal or hexadecimal conversion to binary.

Take care,
John

----- Original Message -----
From: patchell <patchell at silcom.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Latest Project


>     You know....this message would have been a whole lot more effective
> if...I had given the URL...like this:
> http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/synthmodules/patgen.html
>
>
> patchell wrote:
>
> >     Here is something I have been working on for about a month
> > now...actually a fairly simple project...although, it does have a lot of
> > parts on it.  It is a 16 x 8 patern generator.  This is intended for a
> > sequencer project I have been working on for a while...
> >
> > --
> >  -Jim
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> > *-----------------------------------------------
> > *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> > * -Yogi Yorgensen
> > ------------------------------------------------
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>



From a0284520 at addcom.de  Sun Mar 24 19:32:47 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:32:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Latest Project
References: <3C9D5E1A.F3594801@silcom.com> <3C9D6BEF.DCE6AF95@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E1BCF.3020909@addcom.de>

cool. sort of the raw analog/hardware version of a Schaltwerk. i have 
always intended to do something like this as well. It's the outrageous 
number of switches that has scared me off.

mark

patchell wrote:

>    You know....this message would have been a whole lot more effective
>if...I had given the URL...like this:
>http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/synthmodules/patgen.html
>
>
>patchell wrote:
>
>>    Here is something I have been working on for about a month
>>now...actually a fairly simple project...although, it does have a lot of
>>parts on it.  It is a 16 x 8 patern generator.  This is intended for a
>>sequencer project I have been working on for a while...
>>
>>--
>> -Jim
>>------------------------------------------------
>>* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
>>*-----------------------------------------------
>>*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
>>* -Yogi Yorgensen
>>------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>--
> -Jim
>------------------------------------------------
>* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
>*-----------------------------------------------
>*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
>* -Yogi Yorgensen
>------------------------------------------------
>
>
>




From don at till.com  Sun Mar 24 19:59:21 2002
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:59:21 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] the future independant musician
Message-ID: <200203241859.g2OIxLHt018766@newbolt.sonic.net>

Dean Friedman wrote a fascinating essay on this topic.  Check it out
on his web site:  
  http://www.deanfriedman.com
  (click on "Newsletters", click on "Napster Rant")

Who is Dean Friedman?  He's a New York based songwriter I've
admired for a long time.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California, USA
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From james at ersatzplanet.com  Sun Mar 24 20:18:14 2002
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:18:14 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Latest Project
In-Reply-To: <3C9D6BEF.DCE6AF95@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <B8C36676.1B961%james@ersatzplanet.com>

I have a bag of push-button switches (DPDT push on-push off) destined for a
project like this. The circuit I was going to use was just a standard
sequencer plan with the pots replaced by the switches, and a logic circuit
instead of the output stage (AND with the clock to make the pulses).  I used
to have a Roland TR-808 drum machine and used it's 3 gate outs to drive 3
modified Sequential Pro-ones. I loaded notes into the Pro-ones memory and
played them with the gates from the 808. Lots of great patters would happen
when the beats and notes counts didn't match. Lots of time through till they
repeated. I always wondered why there were never any modules for doing this
on the new modulars out there. Cost I guess. I was going to make a
"programmable" version with the circuit connected to a PCB edge connector.
Standard edge connector PCBs with cheap dip switches would be plugged in. It
was going to be laid out so you could switch between cards for live playing.
An alternate for expensive switches.
-James 


on 3/23/02 10:02 PM, patchell at patchell at silcom.com wrote:

> You know....this message would have been a whole lot more effective
> if...I had given the URL...like this:
> http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/synthmodules/patgen.html
> 
> 
> patchell wrote:
> 
>> Here is something I have been working on for about a month
>> now...actually a fairly simple project...although, it does have a lot of
>> parts on it.  It is a 16 x 8 patern generator.  This is intended for a
>> sequencer project I have been working on for a while...
>> 
>> --
>> -Jim
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
>> *-----------------------------------------------
>> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
>> * -Yogi Yorgensen
>> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> --
> -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 20:49:53 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:49:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
In-Reply-To: <20020324.142912.74755404.cfmd@swipnet.se>
Message-ID: <20020324194953.60302.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>

Magnus et al,

Two reasons: One is my design uses 26 xor gates. that
would be 7 quad packages. That plus 3 dual flip flops
is a lot of wiring. Reason #2: I like CPLDs. If I
decide to invert the outputs, it takes 5 minutes with
a CPLD. In the real would it would take 7 more
packages wired in.

--TR


--- Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se> wrote:
> From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:44:01 -0800 (PST)
> 
> > To all,
> > 
> > AS you might have noticed, I kinda got distracted
> by
> > this little midi project. No, I haven't forgotten
> > about the Walsh thing. The board layout is done
> except
> > for checking. I am planning on sending the board
> out
> > for fab real soon now. The CPLD design has been
> done
> > for a while, its time for me to do the next part.
> > 
> > <------------------------------------------------>
> > In the spirit of the list, does anyone want to
> > volunteer to check the layout? I can mail a
> package
> > with all the docs. Don't have my PDF writer yet,
> so it
> > has to be snail-mail.
> > <------------------------------------------------>
> > 
> > This board will just be a breakout board for the
> Walsh
> > CPLD. I have provided for both molex-style
> connectors
> > (0.1") and dual-row header for ribbon cable. You
> can
> > also populate the connector pins with machine SIP
> > sockets to accept 24 ga solid wire.
> > 
> > This little kit will consist of board, CPLD, and
> > socket. Price will be in the $20-$25 range
> depending
> > on how much the boards cost me. I'm not trying to
> get
> > rich here, just trying to cover my costs.
> > 
> > I will let you know when the stuff is available.
> 
> Question:
> 
> Why do you need a CPLD?
> You can create any size of Walsh generator with a
> frequency divider
> and a handfull of XNOR gates. For a organ setup, all
> you need is the
> TOG part and 12 Walsh generators.
> 
> Maybe I should do a simulation and hand it out.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From media.nai at rcn.com  Sun Mar 24 20:56:51 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:56:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
In-Reply-To: <000c01c1d33e$1d3489a0$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>
 <3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <v03130300b8c353aa003d@208.58.249.151>


>One problem with this, when you tighten the hex nut at the
>outside, how do you prevent it from damaging the panel?

You could use a deep socket, but many deep sockets and box end wrenches
won't fit over the bat. Just use an open end wrench, and hold it so that it
doesn't touch the panel.  Either that, or I don't get the question.

You can buy dogbones in _any_ size (and I could elaborate on five systems
of wrench sizes), in numerous lengths, with each head at a different angle.
You can get wrenches that are curved, offset, angled, extra thin, flange
wrenches that have two more sides, "split box-ends", etc.

You can also use plastic or soft-faced tools that can't scratch metal.  I
frequently use the plastic "oversized handle" from a miniature nut driver
set -- it fits perfectly over the nuts used on Switchcraft 1/4" jacks and
won't scratch the panel.

When dealing with any kind of fastener, the important thing is to buy
quality tools built to close tolerances.  I've had foreign wrenches
literally break in my hand, so you should pay attention to where in the
world a wrench was made before you buy it.  Cheap wrenches are no bargain.





From media.nai at rcn.com  Sun Mar 24 20:57:05 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:57:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] seven-segment in round hole??
Message-ID: <v03130304b8c39b20ca07@208.58.249.151>


Is there a seven-segment LED display that will mount to a panel using a
round hole??




From alcratin at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:38 2002
From: alcratin at hotmail.com (Alex)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:37:38 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Importance of Matched Transistor Pair
References: <20020323181227.71955.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> <002501c1d299$95953f20$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <OE23iR9Odutox7nyeKz000010d9@hotmail.com> <3C9CFD07.B328F926@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <OE609ME2VPwHsTpYmQz0001e508@hotmail.com>

Patchell,

Thanks for the info. It makes sense to me now.


----- Original Message -----
From: "patchell" <patchell at silcom.com>
To: "Alex" <alcratin at hotmail.com>
Cc: "Synth-Diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Importance of Matched Transistor Pair


>     To keep it as simple as posible...
>
>     In general, the matched pairs are used for the exponential converters
(they
> can also be used for other things, but when it comes to synths, expo
converters
> are the number one job, followed by ladder filter pairs, also found in the
> TB303).  There are quite a few ways that transistors can drift with
> temperature, by using a matched pair, all of these drifting parameters
track
> each other, so if you look at both at the same time, it apears there is no
> drift....
>
>     Generally, what needs to be matched in matched pairs is the Vbe of the
> transistor.  Another important thing about matched pairs is they must be
> thermally connected.  After you match a pair of transistors, you generally
> should glue them together (I use epoxy).  However, the best way is to buy
> matched transistors.  The most common one availiable is the CA3046
(actually
> five matched transistors).  The CA3046 is also the least expensive.  Other
> canidates are MAT02, MAT03, MAT04 (4 transistors), THAT200/220/240, some
> japanese transistors I don't remember the numbers for (somebody else will
come
> up with them, last time I tried, I got them wrong).
>
> Alex wrote:
>
> > I'm kind of new at some of this, can anyone tell me what the importance
of
> > using a matched transistor pair in a synth circuit vs. two individual
> > transistors?
> >
> > I know that the Roland TB-303 uses a matched transistor and there's a
synth
> > DIY site out of Scandinavia, that sites using a matched transistor pair
for
> > his mono phonic synth. I want to build a modular synth and then I saw
this,
> > can anyone provide me with some background on this on why it's used for
> > synth design? There are only 3 or 4 matched transistors that NTE
provides.
>
>     I have purchased these in the past, they are good parts...
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Alex
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun Mar 24 21:38:34 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:38:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com><3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net> <000c01c1d33e$1d3489a0$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net> <028a01c1d349$1853c120$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <004401c1d355$0634f7a0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <001101c1d373$deb6b460$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Yes good idea but locktite only keeps the nuts in place, you still have to
tighten the nuts.
The idea of the PU/epoxy is that the glue does the work, not the nut.

Theo


From: John L Marshall <john.l.marshall at gte.net>

> How about "locktite"?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Theo <t.hogers at home.nl>
> To: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>; harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>; Rob Mantel
> <rob at arachnoids.org>
> Cc: SynthDIYmailinglist <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
>
>
> > Tighten the hex-nut from the back with your fingers,
> > then add PU or epoxy glue.
> > A rather permanent solution, but looks ok from the out side.
> >
> > Theo
> >
> >
> > From: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>
> >
> > > deep welled sockets of the appropriate size work okay too, but be
> > > careful that you put a washer down first so it doesn't touch the panel
> > > surface.
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "harry" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> > > To: "Rob Mantel" <rob at arachnoids.org>
> > > Cc: "SynthDIYmailinglist" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:12 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
> > >
> > >
> > > > One way is to use (from the inside of the box...)
> > > >
> > > > Switch
> > > > Hex nut
> > > > lockwasher
> > > > anti-rotation washer (optional)
> > > > PANEL
> > > > hex nut or dress nut.
> > > >
> > > > You tighten the nut from the BACK... use a really thin wrench.
> > > > I ground down a small ignition wrench to the thickness of the
> > > > nut.
> > > >
> > > > The dress nuts come in two varieties. I'd use the ones that are not
> > > > threaded all the way through. Tighten them finger tight from the
> > > >  front... then wrench from behind.
> > > >
> > > > If they are really close together... this is HARD to do
> > > >
> > > > H^) harry
> > > >
> > > > Rob Mantel wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > For quite some time now I've been wondering what the correct way
> > > is to mount
> > > > > small toggle switches on a frontpanel. I'm talking about the
> > > miniature ones
> > > > > that mount in a 1/4" hole.
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking at the pictures in the datasheets, it looks like (from
> > > outside to
> > > > > inside): hex nut, panel, locking ring, lockwasher, hex nut.
> > > > >
> > > > > One problem with this, when you tighten the hex nut at the
> > > outside, how do
> > > > > you prevent it from damaging the panel?
> > > > >
> > > > > Easy solution would be to add an extra flat washer under the
> > > outside hex
> > > > > nut, but these are never? supplied with the switch, and I havn't
> > > been able
> > > > > to find a source for small washers that would fit. You would want
> > > washers
> > > > > with a hole of 1/4", and an outside diameter of only 3/8".
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone know another way to do this? Or have a source for the
> > > washers that
> > > > > IMHO should be supplied with the switches?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Rob
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
> > > > Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
> > > > Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
> > > > go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
> > > > hide... how about YOU ???
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>



From alcratin at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 24 21:41:35 2002
From: alcratin at hotmail.com (Alex)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:41:35 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] [OT]Source for Obscure Sheet Music
References: <3C9D5F79.6FA8766D@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <OE36rJrozCsVINDnKgX00003f08@hotmail.com>

Patchelle,

There is a place called Capone's Music on Georgia Ave in Silver Spring
Maryland, I don't know the phone number but they have been there for
something like 30 years. They are THE resource for sheet music in the DC
area. I don't know the phone number, but www.switchboard.com will probably
give you the info you need. Give them a ring.

Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: "patchell" <patchell at silcom.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 9:09 PM
Subject: [sdiy] [OT]Source for Obscure Sheet Music


>     Very obscure sheet music...I know this is sort of off topic, but, at
> least it involves music.  And I am always surprised sometimes at the
> responses I get...
>
>     Here is what I am looking for:
>     The Belle of the Monon
>     Hoosier Time
>     Monticello Moon
>     Up and Down the Monon
>
>     Music was by McGee and Haynes
>     Published by the Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville Railroad Company
> (Monon)
>
>     If I am lucky, there will be a Hoosier on the list that has copies.
> I am only interested in these for the music...I am not looking to
> purchase original sheet music.  Guess you can say I am feeling my
> Indiana roots...I had family in Logansport and Monticello.
>
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


From mclilith at ezwv.com  Sun Mar 24 21:51:17 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:51:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
In-Reply-To: <20020324175051.NAGK8115.out016.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020324154745.026a5bb0@mail.ezwv.com>

At 04:50 AM 3/24/02 , Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>PLLs on each of the TOG outputs could track and frequency multiply
>the 12 pitches.  Lot's of parts though, at least two ICs per note.

Hahaha...

That sounds funny to a person that repaired organs for a living. I wish all the
organs I've worked on *only* had 2 IC's per note.  :)


later,
Glen


From rob at arachnoids.org  Sun Mar 24 22:29:38 2002
From: rob at arachnoids.org (Rob Mantel)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:29:38 -0500
Subject: The hex nut and the damage done.  Was: Re: [sdiy] mounting of miniature toggle switches
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com> <3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net> <v03130300b8c353aa003d@208.58.249.151>
Message-ID: <004901c1d37b$03dc6c60$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions.

I can't agree more with the people who stated good tools are very important
here, however in this case I wasn't talking about the tool scratching the
panel, but the hex nut itself doing the damage.

Most other people said it was best to tighten the nut at the back of the
panel, I guess I will have to look for a wrench small and thin enough to be
able to do that. But especially on crowded panels that definately won't be
easy. I would prefer not to use some kind of glue, too permanent.

I still think it would be much easier if there was just another flat washer
at the outside under the hex nut so you could just tighten the outside nut
with a hollow hex nut driver, so if anyone knows a source for little flat
washers with a hole of 1/4" and an outside size of about 3/8" please let me
know.

Again, thanks all, this list keeps amazing me, so many helpful people
together is almost unreal.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: <media.nai at rcn.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches


>
> >One problem with this, when you tighten the hex nut at the
> >outside, how do you prevent it from damaging the panel?
>
> You could use a deep socket, but many deep sockets and box end wrenches
> won't fit over the bat. Just use an open end wrench, and hold it so that
it
> doesn't touch the panel.  Either that, or I don't get the question.
>
> You can buy dogbones in _any_ size (and I could elaborate on five systems
> of wrench sizes), in numerous lengths, with each head at a different
angle.
> You can get wrenches that are curved, offset, angled, extra thin, flange
> wrenches that have two more sides, "split box-ends", etc.
>
> You can also use plastic or soft-faced tools that can't scratch metal.  I
> frequently use the plastic "oversized handle" from a miniature nut driver
> set -- it fits perfectly over the nuts used on Switchcraft 1/4" jacks and
> won't scratch the panel.
>
> When dealing with any kind of fastener, the important thing is to buy
> quality tools built to close tolerances.  I've had foreign wrenches
> literally break in my hand, so you should pay attention to where in the
> world a wrench was made before you buy it.  Cheap wrenches are no bargain.
>
>
>



From yashk2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 22:30:01 2002
From: yashk2000 at yahoo.com (Yash)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:30:01 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020324154745.026a5bb0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1d37b$0de16d00$050a7bca@yashmachine1>

Hi All,

I've got an ageing (to put things mildly) Roland D-10. I'd like to get rid
of the hiss as well as learn any other possible modifications that I can
bring to my synth.

If I cannot mod it, I'll probaby try to salvage it for parts to build
another synth. Do you think that could be possible?

Many thanks,

Yash.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From thereminhd at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 24 22:37:40 2002
From: thereminhd at yahoo.com (Matt Jones)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Latest Project
In-Reply-To: <3C9D6BEF.DCE6AF95@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <20020324213740.91452.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm also working on a 16x8 sequencer project. I found
a
cheap source for self-indicating switches. $2.50 gets
you an assembly with 8 switches and really cool 
mechanical color-change indicators.

Check out
http://www.aaaim.com/cgi-local/shop991/shop.pl/SID=324310312375/page=SWIT.htm#SW9054

(or go to www.candhsales.com and look for the
8-STATION PUSH BUTTON SWITCH ASSEMBLY in their online
store)

  --mdj


--- patchell <patchell at silcom.com> wrote:
>     You know....this message would have been a whole
> lot more effective
> if...I had given the URL...like this:
>
http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/synthmodules/patgen.html
> 
> 
> patchell wrote:
> 
> >     Here is something I have been working on for
> about a month
> > now...actually a fairly simple project...although,
> it does have a lot of
> > parts on it.  It is a 16 x 8 patern generator. 
> This is intended for a
> > sequencer project I have been working on for a
> while...
> >
> > --
> >  -Jim
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> > *-----------------------------------------------
> > *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a
> year
> > * -Yogi Yorgensen
> > ------------------------------------------------
> 
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a
> year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sun Mar 24 23:20:38 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:20:38 -0800
Subject: The hex nut and the damage done.  Was: Re: [sdiy] mounting of miniature toggle switches
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com> <3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net> <v03130300b8c353aa003d@208.58.249.151> <004901c1d37b$03dc6c60$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>
Message-ID: <004101c1d382$211de0e0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

Rob,

My thin end wrench for tightening switch nuts says "Alcoswitch" on it. It is
pretty cheap though, a stamping.

Try Mouser 48CW007. It is a 7 mm by 12 mm by 0.5 mm washer but it should be
close enough.

Take care,
John


----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Mantel <rob at arachnoids.org>
To: SynthDIYmailinglist <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:29 PM
Subject: The hex nut and the damage done. Was: Re: [sdiy] mounting of
miniature toggle switches


> Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions.
>
> I can't agree more with the people who stated good tools are very
important
> here, however in this case I wasn't talking about the tool scratching the
> panel, but the hex nut itself doing the damage.
>
> Most other people said it was best to tighten the nut at the back of the
> panel, I guess I will have to look for a wrench small and thin enough to
be
> able to do that. But especially on crowded panels that definately won't be
> easy. I would prefer not to use some kind of glue, too permanent.
>
> I still think it would be much easier if there was just another flat
washer
> at the outside under the hex nut so you could just tighten the outside nut
> with a hollow hex nut driver, so if anyone knows a source for little flat
> washers with a hole of 1/4" and an outside size of about 3/8" please let
me
> know.
>
> Again, thanks all, this list keeps amazing me, so many helpful people
> together is almost unreal.
>
> Rob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <media.nai at rcn.com>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
>
>
> >
> > >One problem with this, when you tighten the hex nut at the
> > >outside, how do you prevent it from damaging the panel?
> >
> > You could use a deep socket, but many deep sockets and box end wrenches
> > won't fit over the bat. Just use an open end wrench, and hold it so that
> it
> > doesn't touch the panel.  Either that, or I don't get the question.
> >
> > You can buy dogbones in _any_ size (and I could elaborate on five
systems
> > of wrench sizes), in numerous lengths, with each head at a different
> angle.
> > You can get wrenches that are curved, offset, angled, extra thin, flange
> > wrenches that have two more sides, "split box-ends", etc.
> >
> > You can also use plastic or soft-faced tools that can't scratch metal.
I
> > frequently use the plastic "oversized handle" from a miniature nut
driver
> > set -- it fits perfectly over the nuts used on Switchcraft 1/4" jacks
and
> > won't scratch the panel.
> >
> > When dealing with any kind of fastener, the important thing is to buy
> > quality tools built to close tolerances.  I've had foreign wrenches
> > literally break in my hand, so you should pay attention to where in the
> > world a wrench was made before you buy it.  Cheap wrenches are no
bargain.
> >
> >
> >
>
>



From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Sun Mar 24 23:39:00 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:39:00 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] My Modular Synth site
Message-ID: <200203242239.g2OMcvu26015@yakko.hotkey.net.au>


It appears the server containing my primary synth site has crashed, and as
it's on the other side of the planet to me, there's nothing I can do but wait.

In the mean time, there is an older version at:

http://otherunicorn.0catch.com/synth/

I have uploaded the latest construction articles here, though other parts of
the site may be a bit "rustic" and certain links, such as mp3s will not
work. MP3s are banned on this server.

Anyone building my pcbs that cannot access the pages they need can email me
directly for the required info. 

Have fun!

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk  Sun Mar 24 23:51:32 2002
From: nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:51:32 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
In-Reply-To: <004d01c1d358$c8617ee0$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203242240140.21617-100000@red.csi.cam.ac.uk>

Guys,

Thought I'd drop in on this thread :-)

> It seems that you would want each note within an octave and each octave to
> have the same timbre.

Oh, now, where's the fun in that?  How about being able to modify the
timbre depending on pitch?

> But, with the walsh generator you would want to freely manipulate the
> timbre, maybe through time. How are going to do that?

Using drawbars/pots/sliders/whatever to directly mix the Walsh functions
is bad medicine.  Much better to generate control voltages, and use those
to set the levels of each Walsh term.  Opens up a number of possibilities:
- set the basic spectrum (say from a micro + DAC)
- use front panel controls (sliders/bars/etc) to deviate from the default

> Wouldn't it be cool to convert from Walsh to sine series and have sine
> octave draw bars?

Erm... there is no simple mapping from sine (Fourier) to Walsh -- you'd
need an infinite (well, ok, band-limited) set of Walsh functions to
approximate a sinewave, and vice-versa.  But it is a neat idea to be able
to modify the harmonics while playing :-)

> The Walsh series would be longest for the lowest octave of notes but
> be very short for the highest octave unless your TOG is 32 or 64 times
> the highest note to be played.

The recommended minimum number of Walsh coeffs for synthesis is 32 terms
(comparable to LPF samples), so that should be sufficient for the entire
range, although of course if we're using FPGAs then we can do a lot
better.

In fact, if we are doing it in an FPGA, why not do all the maths inside an
FPGA altogether.  The slide bars could be sampled and fed in as digital
data, and the IWT performed entirely in the digital domain.  The output
could then be a serial stream for feeding straight into a DAC.

(I'm on a roll now)

So if we're in this midst of hundreds of thousands of gates, why not
multiplex the entire thing and create a polyphonic, multitimbral Walsh
synth engine?  Mmmm...tempting :-)

Ok, have I been thinking about this in the past?  Yes.  Have I done much
about it yet?  No.  My rate of progress on projects could be measured in
geological units :-(

But its nice to exercise the ideas once in a while.

Neil

--
Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::
http://www.njohnson.co.uk          http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22
----  IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk  ----



From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Mon Mar 25 00:01:56 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:01:56 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks Everyone!  (say, any CA3094's out there?)
References: <20020324174508.YIXR21585.out004.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <000401c1d387$e5723f40$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>


> >plus
> >they charge you the same amount or more and use less resources.
>
> First, I don't see how this matters, but more importantly,
> I don't see how you can make this assumption.  Simply because
> there's a little less plastic involved?

Actually, plastic and leads, so, yes, it is well within their
interests to go to SMT. Not like I am complaining, I love the fact
that I can fit more in less and have been doing so for quite a long
time.

I guess the part that I don't like about SMT is that there is a LOT of
brokering that tends to have parts tied up for us little ppl.

For example, you don't have to buy 2000 from digikey to get dip parts,
but for certain smt parts, the minimum buy is 2000! Begging to get a
hundred of them shouldn't be part of the picture, but, unfortunately
it is.

So, yes, the parts are out there, but, NO, you can't afford to buy any
in the lots they require you to buy.

And, no there is no evil plot, although it does work out that way
sometimes.

Rob




From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Mon Mar 25 00:23:28 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:23:28 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
References: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203242240140.21617-100000@red.csi.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d38a$e843f580$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Johnson <nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: John L Marshall <john.l.marshall at gte.net>
Cc: Magnus Danielson <cfmd at swipnet.se>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Walsh update


> Thought I'd drop in on this thread :-)

Why kill a thought provoking topic?

>
> Erm... there is no simple mapping from sine (Fourier) to Walsh -- you'd
> need an infinite (well, ok, band-limited) set of Walsh functions to
> approximate a sinewave, and vice-versa.  But it is a neat idea to be able
> to modify the harmonics while playing :-)
>
Somewhere, I have a table of resistor coefficients from Walsh to summing
opamps to produce f through 10f.

Take care,
John



From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Mon Mar 25 00:27:04 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:27:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Micromoog from hell!
Message-ID: <000701c1d38b$686eeee0$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>

Well, just wanted to relay the sad sad story of a Micromoog I am
trying to repair for someone.

Okay, this poor Micromoog has been pretty much around the entire
country in various states of broken-ness.

I finally get it, and I notice that the VCO isn't getting any CV, the
Env gen doesn't work, and the filter is not passing any signal.

So, you might ask, can it get any worse? ;)

Well, the VCA and S&H seem fine. HAhah!!

I just feel sorry for the thing. :)

I believe I will find many of these aweful slide switches to be at
least partially the culprits.

Well, someone in their infinite wisdom decided to go ahead and socket
and replace all the ICs in the thing too. Ugh. I can only guess I will
find solder joints under the sockets..

"Yeah, it must be those bug looking things. "

At least the powersupply is still good.


Rob

AIM: cybrgzr0 <--- the last thing is a number



From nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk  Mon Mar 25 00:31:21 2002
From: nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:31:21 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d38a$e843f580$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203242328380.7903-100000@red.csi.cam.ac.uk>


> > Thought I'd drop in on this thread :-)
>
> Why kill a thought provoking topic?

Kill?  On the contrary...

> Somewhere, I have a table of resistor coefficients from Walsh to
> summing opamps to produce f through 10f.

Yeh, on my site there's a table for producing saw, sine, triangle waves,
so just scale the coeffs to resistors and you'd have the same.

Its much trickier to say "changing this Walsh coeff is like changing
sinewaves like this..." because the Walsh-Fourire transform is as complex
as the Walsh transform (ie. sums over the entire range).  Not forgetting
pahse of course (a bit tricky in Walsh-domain, easy in Fourier-domain).

Neil

--
Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::
http://www.njohnson.co.uk          http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22
----  IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk  ----



From david at hylander.com  Mon Mar 25 00:34:29 2002
From: david at hylander.com (Dave Hylander)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:34:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
In-Reply-To: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324183016.01aa5b30@pop.mindspring.com>

I prefer to use the NKK mini switches.  The nut for the outside (against 
the panel) is beveled so that it does not dig into the panel.  Tip -  Apply 
a piece of masking tape across the face of you nut driver. After pushing it 
over the switch, it will protect the panel from contact with the nut 
driver.  I've installed hundreds of the NKK switches, and have never had 
any panel damage.
dave

At 12:15 AM 3/24/2002 -0500, Rob Mantel wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>For quite some time now I've been wondering what the correct way is to mount
>small toggle switches on a frontpanel. I'm talking about the miniature ones
>that mount in a 1/4" hole.



From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Mon Mar 25 02:46:06 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:46:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
References: <20020324231126.OLJV8115.out016.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d39e$d480f840$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>

Long ago, back in about 90, Smith-Weyer Labs had upgrades for some of
these units, such as the Proteus line, the MT-32 iirc, and a few other
units to increase signal to noise and kill of the hiss.. It only
concerned the output stages and powersupply iirc.

I thought all it was was a swap out of some caps, some opamps, and
bigger powersupply caps.

Thats where I would start anyway if you have to do it yourself. hence,
diy ;)

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Gravenhorst" <music.maker at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications


> Isn't the D-10 a digital (CPU based) synth?  I think that
> the D-110 has a similar (and I'm told cut down) internal
> engine.  If so, I doubt that it can be modified in any
> useful way.  I've written software to allow easy tone data
> modification for my D-110, but I doubt it would work on
> a D-10 if my friend is right.  I always thought the D-110
> was just a D-10 without the keyboard, but he told me this
> isn't the case.
>
> <yashk2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >
> >I've got an ageing (to put things mildly) Roland D-10. I'd like to
get rid
> >of the hiss as well as learn any other possible modifications that
I can
> >bring to my synth.
> >
> >If I cannot mod it, I'll probaby try to salvage it for parts to
build
> >another synth. Do you think that could be possible?
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >
> >Yash.
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
> =========================================================
> - Government: The other religion.
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> - Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
> -- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html
>
>



From thescum at surfree.com  Mon Mar 25 04:15:06 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:15:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020325031506.0097d374@smtp.surfree.com>

At 08:46 PM 03/24/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Long ago, back in about 90, Smith-Weyer Labs had upgrades for some of
>these units, such as the Proteus line, the MT-32 iirc, and a few other
>units to increase signal to noise and kill of the hiss.. It only
>concerned the output stages and powersupply iirc.
>
>I thought all it was was a swap out of some caps, some opamps, and
>bigger powersupply caps.

I concur with this thought.  I've known several techs who would put in
better opamps, bigger caps, etc in the analog output chain, and beef up the
power supply.  In a couple of particular products, they'd add some ferrites
and what not, trying to get the digital clock hash out of the analog chain.
It's probably more work diagnosing why it's got problems than figuring out a
fix.

Byron Jacquot



From mclilith at ezwv.com  Mon Mar 25 06:26:17 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:26:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: The hex nut and the damage done.  (Small Parts)
In-Reply-To: <004901c1d37b$03dc6c60$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>
 <3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net>
 <v03130300b8c353aa003d@208.58.249.151>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020325000405.0094ead0@mail.ezwv.com>

At 04:29 PM 3/24/02 , Rob Mantel wrote:

>I would prefer not to use some kind of glue, too permanent.

I feel the same way about glue, but Blue Loctite isn't permanent. It also works
well, in preventing a nut from loosening over time, or from vibration. Lock
washers, used along with Loctite, are a nice reliable combination.


>I still think it would be much easier if there was just another flat washer
>at the outside under the hex nut so you could just tighten the outside nut
>with a hollow hex nut driver, so if anyone knows a source for little flat
>washers with a hole of 1/4" and an outside size of about 3/8" please let me
>know.

Have you ever seen a catalog from a company called "Small Parts" (located in
the USA)? They sell all sorts of small and often-exotic hardware. They also
sell some hard-to-find tools as well.

They probably have just the washers you are looking for. In fact, don't be
surprised if they offer the size of washer you need, manufactured from your
choice of different materials. For example, they have various types of washers
made from the following materials:

Beryllium Copper, Ceramic, Felt, Fiberglass, Hard Fiber, Nylon, Phosphor
Bronze, PTFE (Teflon), Silicon Bronze, Stainless Steel, and Titanium

Here is their website:   www.smallparts.com

I've noticed that they now have their catalog accessible on-line, as a
collection of PDF files. In the past, their paper catalogs had more content
than the web site, but it seems that might have changed, with these PDF pages.
If you like what you see on the site, I'd still get a paper copy of the catalog
to browse. I just like reading paper, much more than a computer monitor.


I hope that helps,

Glen




From frankentron at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 07:55:05 2002
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:55:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] wow! this is neat!
Message-ID: <F1613Di32AvJ1J2mYl000002365@hotmail.com>

http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/arpdf/DS1847.pdf

apparently you can make a lookup table to change the resistance depending on 
temperature. it is programmable and non-volatile to boot which means you can 
set it and forget it. this sounds interesting for use in temperature stable 
VCO's and such but are 2 degree increments sufficient for that?

also, the power supply range for the device is 3Vdc-5.5Vdc and the voltage 
through it's resistors cannot be above the supply... hmmm that sucks.


anybody seen/used this thing?

~M

ps: also found some sources for reverse taper pots, CA3046s, MC3900s, and 
4558s. if ya need em let me know.



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



From CHoaglin at aol.com  Mon Mar 25 08:30:07 2002
From: CHoaglin at aol.com (CHoaglin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 02:30:07 EST
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
Message-ID: <167.af8e594.29d02bff@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/23/02 2:56:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, psnow at magma.ca 
writes:


> It's truly amazing, isn't it. 
> I get the feeling it's the old trick of asking for something ridiculous so 
> that after all the
> arguing and horse-trading you'll end up getting what you wanted in the 
> first place.
> 
> 

That's just it, they shouldn't. In any form of free-market economy, if your 
business model isn't sustainable and your only skill is extreme 
mismanagement, you don't make up for your losses off the backs of other 
industries and individuals by taxing them, nor do you pass go and collect 
$200, you go directly out of business. Sometimes you can hide it for a while, 
a la Enron, but sooner or later it catches up to you. Subsidies are given to 
industries which are necessary regardless of whether they're profitable, like 
farming, or the airline industry at times, or other national infrastructure 
type stuff. I don't think anybody could make the argument that large-scale 
record labels provide any kind of crucial service, especially with the 
availability of internet technology to enable musicians to promote and sell 
their work. Their time has passed, and newer distribution systems have made 
them obsolete. They're just thrashing around like a dying insect, basically.

-Chrs
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020325/275ce78f/attachment.htm>

From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 08:49:59 2002
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:49:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] wow! this is neat!
In-Reply-To: <F1613Di32AvJ1J2mYl000002365@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325002939.00a6cd20@mail.earthlink.net>

Interesting. It might be usable for expo converter stabilization. If 
nominal room temperature corresponds to 1/2 the full resistance, then one 
step in resistance per two degrees in temperature gives a tempco of 3900 
ppm/K. This could be trimmed to 3300 ppm/K with a series metal film 
resistor. The chip could be operated from +/- 2.5 V supplies and could be 
the lower leg of a divider right at the transistor base.

I think you should try it!

   Ian



At 11:55 PM 3/24/2002, Michael Ruberto wrote:
>http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/arpdf/DS1847.pdf
>
>apparently you can make a lookup table to change the resistance depending 
>on temperature. it is programmable and non-volatile to boot which means 
>you can set it and forget it. this sounds interesting for use in 
>temperature stable VCO's and such but are 2 degree increments sufficient 
>for that?
>
>also, the power supply range for the device is 3Vdc-5.5Vdc and the voltage 
>through it's resistors cannot be above the supply... hmmm that sucks.



From shockadd at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 08:02:03 2002
From: shockadd at hotmail.com (David D)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:02:03 
Subject: [sdiy] Micromoog from hell!
Message-ID: <F174SnmILgO9Htlv4Mk00008f5d@hotmail.com>





>Okay, this poor Micromoog has been pretty much around the entire
>country in various states of broken-ness.


   I have seen many of these poor things in BAD shape. Cats especially
really love to use the MicroMoog for a impromptue litter box..nasty 
creatures!

>

>Well, someone in their infinite wisdom decided to go ahead and socket
>and replace all the ICs in the thing too.

thats not always a bad thing- Ive always found it much faster to remove the 
IC's and use a multi-meter to check each pin to make sure it has been 
soldered nicely and also make sure it isnt over-soldered shorting to a pin 
next to it.


>
>At least the powersupply is still good.


   Lucky one there!! Those damn + - 15v tracking IC chips are getting to be 
REAL tough and expensive to find!!!!  Unless anyone knows of a good source?


  DavidD

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



From shockadd at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 08:02:29 2002
From: shockadd at hotmail.com (David D)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:02:29 
Subject: [sdiy] Micromoog from hell!
Message-ID: <F55XtKmHjM6rD1Rv2yM0000b925@hotmail.com>





>Okay, this poor Micromoog has been pretty much around the entire
>country in various states of broken-ness.


   I have seen many of these poor things in BAD shape. Cats especially
really love to use the MicroMoog for a impromptue litter box..nasty 
creatures!

>

>Well, someone in their infinite wisdom decided to go ahead and socket
>and replace all the ICs in the thing too.

thats not always a bad thing- Ive always found it much faster to remove the 
IC's and use a multi-meter to check each pin to make sure it has been 
soldered nicely and also make sure it isnt over-soldered shorting to a pin 
next to it.


>
>At least the powersupply is still good.


   Lucky one there!! Those damn + - 15v tracking IC chips are getting to be 
REAL tough and expensive to find!!!!  Unless anyone knows of a good source?


  DavidD



"The Jupiter 8 is sex in orange and silver"

           Nick Rhodes - Duran Duran


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



From yashk2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 09:13:16 2002
From: yashk2000 at yahoo.com (Yash)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:13:16 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d39e$d480f840$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000601c1d3d4$ead77200$aa007bca@yashmachine1>

Hi Rob,

Seems to be in my league as I forgot to mention I'm only a beginner. Should
anyone have any more precise information please let me know.

Thanks.

Actually one of the projects I have immediately is to rewire a Datel Amiga
A500 Midi box into a PC one. On the PCB there are inscriptions about IBM
Link, but I do not really know how to go about it either.

Regards,

Yash.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
> Long ago, back in about 90, Smith-Weyer Labs had upgrades for some of
> these units, such as the Proteus line, the MT-32 iirc, and a few other
> units to increase signal to noise and kill of the hiss.. It only
> concerned the output stages and powersupply iirc.
>
> I thought all it was was a swap out of some caps, some opamps, and
> bigger powersupply caps.
>
> Thats where I would start anyway if you have to do it yourself. hence,
> diy ;)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From yashk2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 09:13:27 2002
From: yashk2000 at yahoo.com (Yash)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:13:27 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20020325031506.0097d374@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <000701c1d3d4$f0e5bd00$aa007bca@yashmachine1>

Hi Byron,

Some questions:

1. How do I calculate how much bigger the caps need to be?
2. When you say better opamps, do you mean only rating-wise or maufacturing
quality-wise for same ratings?
3. How much bigger a power supply do I need (actually, in this respect what
does 'bigger' mean? Can I succeed by using hte same power supply but
tweaking it to enable more juice, like putting in smaller resistors?)
4. What are ferrites? Where would you add them? What do you mean get the
digital clock hash out of the analog chain? Is this related to quatization
and/or zipper noise leaking into the analog outputs?
5. Since I'm a beginner, does it seem by my questions that these mods are
beyond my capacity (:OP)

I'd like to do it all myself.

Regards,

Yash.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
>
> I concur with this thought.  I've known several techs who would put in
> better opamps, bigger caps, etc in the analog output chain, and
> beef up the
> power supply.  In a couple of particular products, they'd add
> some ferrites
> and what not, trying to get the digital clock hash out of the
> analog chain.
> It's probably more work diagnosing why it's got problems than
> figuring out a
> fix.
>
> Byron Jacquot
>


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From yashk2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 09:26:39 2002
From: yashk2000 at yahoo.com (Yash)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:26:39 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
In-Reply-To: <20020324231126.OLJV8115.out016.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <000801c1d3d6$c8f2c520$aa007bca@yashmachine1>

Hi Scott,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>
> Isn't the D-10 a digital (CPU based) synth?

It is digital.

>I think that

> If so, I doubt that it can be modified in any
> useful way.

Anything electronic can be modified in some way.

In fact, there was a company doing just this a few years ago, but they've
stopped doing the modifications commercially to concentrate on guitars and
electronic pickups, so I know for sure this machine can be improved.

>I've written software to allow easy tone data
> modification for my D-110, but I doubt it would work on
> a D-10 if my friend is right.  I always thought the D-110
> was just a D-10 without the keyboard, but he told me this
> isn't the case.

They're pretty close.

Yash.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From dhughes at globalnet.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 09:27:43 2002
From: dhughes at globalnet.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:27:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <535C903A-3E6F-11D6-BF5D-00306568757E@tomy.net>
Message-ID: <3C9EDF7F.E3BAAF90@globalnet.co.uk>

Hello,

Thomas Hudson wrote:

> Might be hard to get into rotation on most radio playlists, but if you
> did, one could churn
> out hits like those boy bands ;-)

Is there any need for this kind of profanity?

I thought "boy bands" was one of those phrases banned on this list?    :)

Regards
   David

-- 
Infection Music
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk




From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 09:58:09 2002
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:58:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Micromoog from hell!
In-Reply-To: <F174SnmILgO9Htlv4Mk00008f5d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020325085809.40853.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>


 actually, replacing the psu in the multi/micro can be a great improvement...I replaced a crippled psu in a multi with your standard 78/79 regulator psu, it worked a treat!
  David D <shockadd at hotmail.com> wrote: 



>Okay, this poor Micromoog has been pretty much around the entire
>country in various states of broken-ness.


I have seen many of these poor things in BAD shape. Cats especially
really love to use the MicroMoog for a impromptue litter box..nasty 
creatures!

>

>Well, someone in their infinite wisdom decided to go ahead and socket
>and replace all the ICs in the thing too.

thats not always a bad thing- Ive always found it much faster to remove the 
IC's and use a multi-meter to check each pin to make sure it has been 
soldered nicely and also make sure it isnt over-soldered shorting to a pin 
next to it.


>
>At least the powersupply is still good.


Lucky one there!! Those damn + - 15v tracking IC chips are getting to be 
REAL tough and expensive to find!!!! Unless anyone knows of a good source?


DavidD

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com
Home of the M3X Analogue synthesizer...


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalised at My Yahoo!.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020325/df8d58ca/attachment.htm>

From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 10:10:02 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:10:02 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
References: <000101c1d37b$0de16d00$050a7bca@yashmachine1>
Message-ID: <00d801c1d3df$83c3cea0$b80387d9@oemcomputer>

>I'd like to get rid of the hiss as well as learn any other possible
modifications that I can
bring to my synth.

The first thing you need to do listen to is the hiss. Does this hiss
occur all the time, or only when you play the notes. There is very
little you can do to relieve the latter. The D series of synths are
relatively noisy to todays standards, and most of it it digitally
generated noise. The final op-amps can be swapped to give lower noise
level while the notes aren't being played, but frankly, it makes no
difference when the synth is actually playing. I can see no reason why
changing the power supply caps will reduce hiss.

The other problem with the D10's hiss, is that its not analogue. It has
this nasty grungy sound to it... very much like too low a bit depth on a
sample. On panpipe sounds (oh no! death by 'Pan pipe moods volume 35')
the resulting digital noise is awful.

My recomendation is to play the sound at its highest internal volume.
Turn up the HF on the EQ section, or make the sound brighter than you
need with the TVF, and then filter it with the desk's EQ.

The D10 is essentially a workstation. The D110 is merely the
programmable sound engine and nothing else.

BTW: I still use my D-50 and like it greatly, but if anyone wants my
D-110, feel free to offer me something.

Regards,

Tony Allgood                       Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Sound Systems                     www.oakleysound.com
Modular projects            www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm





From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 10:17:25 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:17:25 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: The hex nut and the damage done. 
References: <00b501c1d2f2$dac5cfc0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com> <3C9D6E31.E5139EBB@prodigy.net> <v03130300b8c353aa003d@208.58.249.151> <004901c1d37b$03dc6c60$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>
Message-ID: <00d901c1d3df$848d3920$b80387d9@oemcomputer>

This sort of damage is particularly bad on front panels made with a
plastic laminate. I managed to get a large bag of washers that fitted
wonderfully for sub-min switches. I think I got it at my local B&Q
(Large chain of DIY stores in the UK). The problem was that the metal
they used to make the washers was of variable quality. It wasn't really
designed for front panels after all. So I selected the nicest ones and
used those.

So I suppose what you need to do is ring a few engineering hardware
suppliers and see what they have. I never found any joy from the usual
Electronic supplies places.

On Scheaffer panels I tighten the nut on the back of the panel. Usually
only a quarter turn is needed. I wouldn't use glue of any form.

Regards,

Tony Allgood                       Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Sound Systems                     www.oakleysound.com
Modular projects            www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm




From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Mar 25 12:02:18 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:02:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
References: <000701c1d3d4$f0e5bd00$aa007bca@yashmachine1>
Message-ID: <002001c1d3ec$88029de0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Hope I won't sound too patronizing, but...
I am afraid these modifications would bring you disappointment at most.
The D series are early digital synths, nearly all of the noise you hear
comes from the digital sound engine.
There is a noise gate build in, so most of the noise is only present when
you play a note.

Swapping opamps or changing other components will not help you,
because the noise does not come from "cheap" opamps but from the sound
engine.
A bigger power supply (bigger caps?) probably won't help, because there is
no net cycle hum to begin with.
There is a lot aliasing and clock noise is in the output of the synth engine
itself,
therefore adding ferrite breads to dampen digital crosstalk to the analogue
part won't bring much.

Since you say you are a beginner there might be serious hazard of damaging
the PCB.
For example adding ferrites would include cutting traces and reconnect them
thru a ferrite bread.

I would suggest you try to enjoy your D110 the way it is and try something
else
(for example building a SBM (single board modular) or a ASM1) as your first
project.
Might save you some disappointment and give you a nice DIY synth instead.

Theo


From: Yash <yashk2000 at yahoo.com>

> Hi Byron,
>
> Some questions:
>
> 1. How do I calculate how much bigger the caps need to be?
> 2. When you say better opamps, do you mean only rating-wise or
maufacturing
> quality-wise for same ratings?
> 3. How much bigger a power supply do I need (actually, in this respect
what
> does 'bigger' mean? Can I succeed by using hte same power supply but
> tweaking it to enable more juice, like putting in smaller resistors?)
> 4. What are ferrites? Where would you add them? What do you mean get the
> digital clock hash out of the analog chain? Is this related to quatization
> and/or zipper noise leaking into the analog outputs?
> 5. Since I'm a beginner, does it seem by my questions that these mods are
> beyond my capacity (:OP)
>
> I'd like to do it all myself.
>
> Regards,
>
> Yash.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >
> >
> > I concur with this thought.  I've known several techs who would put in
> > better opamps, bigger caps, etc in the analog output chain, and
> > beef up the
> > power supply.  In a couple of particular products, they'd add
> > some ferrites
> > and what not, trying to get the digital clock hash out of the
> > analog chain.
> > It's probably more work diagnosing why it's got problems than
> > figuring out a
> > fix.
> >
> > Byron Jacquot
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>



From amajorel at teaser.fr  Mon Mar 25 13:47:43 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:47:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
In-Reply-To: <002001c1d3ec$88029de0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
References: <000701c1d3d4$f0e5bd00$aa007bca@yashmachine1> <002001c1d3ec$88029de0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <20020325124743.GF910@teaser.fr>

On 2002-03-25 12:02 +0100, Theo wrote:

> Hope I won't sound too patronizing, but...
> I am afraid these modifications would bring you disappointment
> at most.  The D series are early digital synths, nearly all of
> the noise you hear comes from the digital sound engine.  There
> is a noise gate build in, so most of the noise is only present
> when you play a note.

I don't have a D* but I have an MT32 (which is I believe the
expander version of the D10 or D20) and in this model, the hiss
never stops. To me it sounds like digital noise centred around 10
kHz leaking into the analogue circuit.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
std::disclaimer ("Not speaking for my employer");


From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Mon Mar 25 14:13:04 2002
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:13:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
Message-ID: <OF540EE4BF.5790773E-ONC1256B87.0048A618@idg.se>


>I don't have a D* but I have an MT32 (which is I believe the
>expander version of the D10 or D20) and in this model, the hiss
>never stops. To me it sounds like digital noise centred around 10
>kHz leaking into the analogue circuit.

Does it stop if you turn the effects off? I used to have an MT-32 too, and
if my memory serves me right, the noise was from the effects unit.

/Jorgen



From yashk2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 14:38:35 2002
From: yashk2000 at yahoo.com (Yash)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:38:35 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
In-Reply-To: <00d801c1d3df$83c3cea0$b80387d9@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <000001c1d402$5ce63b60$390a7bca@yashmachine1>

Hi,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl

> The first thing you need to do listen to is the hiss. Does this hiss
> occur all the time, or only when you play the notes. There is very
> little you can do to relieve the latter. The D series of synths are
> relatively noisy to todays standards, and most of it it digitally
> generated noise. The final op-amps can be swapped to give lower noise
> level while the notes aren't being played, but frankly, it makes no
> difference when the synth is actually playing.

Thanks for oyur reply.

Unfortunately, there's a little bit of both. I am hoping to get the
background noise level lower so that when I reord, I do not need to use a
noise-reduction algorithm on the .wav file.

Regards,

Yash.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From yashk2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 14:38:47 2002
From: yashk2000 at yahoo.com (Yash)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:38:47 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
In-Reply-To: <002001c1d3ec$88029de0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1d402$64011460$390a7bca@yashmachine1>

I think you're wrong: there was at least one company doing the modifications
for better S/N ratio as well as better reverbs.

If it's been done before, it can be done again.

Yash.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl

> Hope I won't sound too patronizing, but...
> I am afraid these modifications would bring you disappointment at most.
> The D series are early digital synths, nearly all of the noise you hear
> comes from the digital sound engine.
>
> Swapping opamps or changing other components will not help you,
> because the noise does not come from "cheap" opamps but from the sound
> engine.

> I would suggest you try to enjoy your D110 the way it is and try something
> else
> (for example building a SBM (single board modular) or a ASM1) as
> your first
> project.
> Might save you some disappointment and give you a nice DIY synth instead.
>
> Theo


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Mar 25 14:49:54 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:49:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
Message-ID: <001901c1d404$08eb98a0$d678b9d9@debitel.net>

Refering to the recent thread about obsolence of DIP components,
I thought I'd share a design tip from one of my collegues.

The background is that I start to make pcb layouts again after
many years of veroboard-only. So he told me if you want
to make your boards as unexpensive as possible, then use
a mix of SMD components and ordinary components.
ICs should be SMD, resistors should be ordinary.
The PCB can be single sided. SMD components go on solder
side. Normally you *must* make double sided pcbs (if not
multilayer) when you use SMD, but with a little patience you
can replace the 2nd copper side with resistors.
I tried this on my PS-3100 clone project, and so far (still in
the midst of the first card, the oscillator board) it looks very
good. It's *really* the best of both worlds: The resistors
act as a replacement for the 2nd copper side (compared
to a SMD-only design), and (compared to a traditional
design) now you can connect resistors straight over IC
packages (because these are on the other side now).

Pros:
* I can use SMD parts (availability will be better on the long run)
* One copper layer is enough
* Resistors ar standard (can easily read the value)
* Less holes to drill than with standard components

Cons:
* As the SMD parts are on "the other side" now, I have
   tothink in mirror image when I route the traces.

JH.





From t.hogers at home.nl  Mon Mar 25 14:51:03 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:51:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
References: <000701c1d3d4$f0e5bd00$aa007bca@yashmachine1> <002001c1d3ec$88029de0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <20020325124743.GF910@teaser.fr>
Message-ID: <000d01c1d404$1acbb500$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

I don't have a D10 for reference but my D50 and MT32 both have some sort of
a noise gate.
Atleast that is how I interpreted the increase of noise level when you play
a note.
Though it might be no gate at all but a simple matter that no extra noise is
generated when the system is at rest.
The 10khz noise is present in my units too, the source seems to be the
(reverb) FX units.

Theo


From: Andre Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>


> On 2002-03-25 12:02 +0100, Theo wrote:
>
> > Hope I won't sound too patronizing, but...
> > I am afraid these modifications would bring you disappointment
> > at most.  The D series are early digital synths, nearly all of
> > the noise you hear comes from the digital sound engine.  There
> > is a noise gate build in, so most of the noise is only present
> > when you play a note.
>
> I don't have a D* but I have an MT32 (which is I believe the
> expander version of the D10 or D20) and in this model, the hiss
> never stops. To me it sounds like digital noise centred around 10
> kHz leaking into the analogue circuit.
>
> --
> Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
> std::disclaimer ("Not speaking for my employer");



From jorgen.bergfors at idg.se  Mon Mar 25 15:02:38 2002
From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se (jorgen.bergfors at idg.se)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:02:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
Message-ID: <OF7590E99F.452AFFDA-ONC1256B87.004CF66B@idg.se>


>Cons:
>* As the SMD parts are on "the other side" now, I have
   >tothink in mirror image when I route the traces.

   I'd like to add the following:

   * You can't put traces between the pins of the ICs

   * You can't fit as many traces under the IC packages. Under a normal DIL
   package, I usually fit up to four traces.

   /Jorgen - cramming the entire sound generation circuits of the TR-808 on
   one 160x233 mm single sided board.




From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Mon Mar 25 15:58:22 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:58:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A691A@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

yes, you can put traces between SMD IC, look:
http://membres.lycos.fr/romcio/krospcb.gif (16-lead SOICs)

It's true that SMD layout requires much more vias than thru-hole,
but anyway it take's less space, even if not designed too carefully.

I'd also add other advantages:
- decoupling capacitor can be closer to silicon
- discrete transistors can be better thermo-coupled (less plastic)
- you can solder passive components stacked one on top of the others
and it still looks good (e.g. making non-standard values by paralell
connections)
- cut wires from thru-hole components have bad habit of flying all over the
place
- you don't have to see other side of board. It can be glued to the wall and
still
you can do all service (assuming traces aren't broken)

My worst disadvantages are:
- I can't find decent, cheap SMD connectors. I mean any kind!
- same sa above for 50ppmTK 0603 resistors 
- and forget about polystyrene SMD caps :)

Roman

""-----Original Message-----
""From: jorgen.bergfors at idg.se [mailto:jorgen.bergfors at idg.se]
""Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 3:03 PM
""To: jhaible; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
""Subject: Re: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
""
""
""
"">Cons:
"">* As the SMD parts are on "the other side" now, I have
""   >tothink in mirror image when I route the traces.
""
""   I'd like to add the following:
""
""   * You can't put traces between the pins of the ICs
""
""   * You can't fit as many traces under the IC packages. 
""Under a normal DIL
""   package, I usually fit up to four traces.
""
""   /Jorgen - cramming the entire sound generation circuits of 
""the TR-808 on
""   one 160x233 mm single sided board.
""
""
""
""
""---------------------------------------------------------
""This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.
""
""Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
""oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.
""


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Mar 25 15:10:08 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:10:08
Subject: [sdiy] 10K Pot into 1MEG Pot?
Message-ID: <20020325231021.VQKJ598.out018.verizon.net@mail.lan>

I'm curious, what would make you go to this trouble
when for about $5.00 (or less), you can get the real 
thing?

I've looked at OTA based VC resistors, but the single
ended one is AC coupled, and the floating one is
too complicated, using both OTAs in a dual package.

Also, these circuits are not potentiometers, they
are variable resistors (or rheostats).  They do not
have the equivalent of two end terminals and a
wiper.  To do that, you'd have to build two of them,
and drive the control voltages inversely.   This could
require up to 2 LM13700 packages and an opamp for 
control voltage inversion plus a small garden of 
resistors.  Add two more opamps for a voltage to
current converter to drive Iabc current if you want
linear operation (a resistor is a crappy current source).


<macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>Hey, thanks, Crow, I'll give this a try!
>Regards, Ken 
>  The Old Crow <oldcrow at oldcrows.net> wrote: On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Ken MacBeth wrote:
>
>> 
>> Hi, does anybody out there have any ideas how to turn a 10K
>> potentiometer into a 1MEG pot? I'm imagine using an OTA as a voltage
>> controlled resistor, but just can't figure this one out yet! Any help
>> here would be most appreciated- Regards, Ken
>
>NatSemi datasheet for LM13600 has examples of single-ended and 
>double-ended voltage-controlled resistors; see figs. 8 to 10.
>
>http://www.oldcrows.net/ota/datasheets/lm13600.pdf
>
>Hope this helps?
>
>Crow
>/**/
>
>
>http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com
>Home of the M3X Analogue synthesizer...


=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Mon Mar 25 16:20:31 2002
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Schmitz)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:20:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d404$08eb98a0$d678b9d9@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020325162031.00df41d0@mailin.uni-bonn.de>

Hi J?rgen et al,

I did that for the 2040 clone, and I also find this approach worthwhile.
For professional PCBs there is also the benefit that the board will be 
smaller, and less holes, which makes the board cheaper. 

Cheers,
 Ren?




-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159

 



From media.nai at rcn.com  Mon Mar 25 18:00:02 2002
From: media.nai at rcn.com (media.nai at rcn.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:00:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] mouting of miniature toggle switches
Message-ID: <v03130300b8c4b79208ba@208.58.249.156>


I posted:

>You could use a deep socket, but many deep sockets
>and box end wrenches won't fit over the bat.

That makes no sense!!  If the nut fits over the bat, certainly a box end
wrench would.   Sorry, I have no idea what I might have been thinking.




From Stefano.Costa at icn.siemens.it  Mon Mar 25 18:03:16 2002
From: Stefano.Costa at icn.siemens.it (Stefano Costa)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:03:16 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA (fwd)
References: <17b.5924fcd.29ce2be9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F5854.8718C0DF@ikuws03.cassina>




From a0284520 at addcom.de  Mon Mar 25 18:04:56 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:04:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh update
References: <20020324182633.NFAQ6775.out001.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <3C9F58B8.2090209@addcom.de>



Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>
>I might add here that a modulation signal can also be applied.
>I found that a PLL tracking a pitch can be nicely vibratoed by
>injecting an LFO signal mixed with the loop filter output feeding
>the VCO input.  Again, lots of parts, but a separate LFO for
>each pitch would give a fair amount of character.  Though as I
>said, it would be a whole mess of parts.  In the end, perhaps
>12 discrete oscillators with analog harmonic generation make the 
>most sense in terms of building.
>
yeah that would only take 3 euro cards per voice or 36 euro cards!



From a0284520 at addcom.de  Mon Mar 25 18:10:35 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:10:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CPLD
References: <20020324194953.60302.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F5A0B.30209@addcom.de>

Is a CPLD an ic containing "software gates" or a programmable logic 
array? I don't really get this stuff (never done any programming) but I 
always wonder if you could replace huge seas of logic with a single chip 
that you load software into.

Is it something like drawing the schematic on the screen and then 
dumping it into the chip? That would be great for "updating" designs.

Where can I get real beginner's information on this stuff? Do I have to 
go to Technical College?

mark



From Stefano.Costa at icn.siemens.it  Mon Mar 25 18:35:54 2002
From: Stefano.Costa at icn.siemens.it (Stefano Costa)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:35:54 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] *DMCA* The R in RSA on the SSSCA aka CBDTPA ERROR!
References: <17b.5924fcd.29ce2be9@aol.com> <3C9F5854.8718C0DF@ikuws03.cassina>
Message-ID: <3C9F5FFA.87BCAE7D@ikuws03.cassina>

Stefano Costa wrote:

*sorry* was an erroneous post. Netscape 4.* mailer *sucks*.

Ste



From clark at andrews.edu  Mon Mar 25 19:15:23 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:15:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d404$08eb98a0$d678b9d9@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020325112711.13267A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

   Hi Juergen!

   Glad to see that others are joining the SMT bandwagon!  As some of you 
might know, I've been working with SMT for over 3 years now, from both a 
business standpoint and from personal DIY projects.  So I'll add some of 
my own insights and experiences to the discussion:

> The background is that I start to make pcb layouts again after
> many years of veroboard-only. So he told me if you want
> to make your boards as unexpensive as possible, then use
> a mix of SMD components and ordinary components.

   It is nearly impossible to use 100% SMT on any project without 
resorting to expensive components or parts that are in general too 
difficult to solder (or rework) by hand.
   As someone pointed out, there aren't many good SMT connectors.  There 
are some nice ones if you are dealing with very small boards and tight 
spaces (ie cell phone manufacturers), but those parts have such fine lead 
pitches that it's nearly impossible to solder by hand.
   There's a very good reason that robots are used to assemble SMT boards!

   Beyond connectors, there are many transistors and discrete parts that 
do not have SMT equivilants.  Many high quality capacitors cannot be 
found in SMT form, although there certainly is a better selection now than 
even 1 year ago (can we say SMT Micas?!).
   So the best bet is to always plan on using mixed-technology when 
involving SMT components. 

> ICs should be SMD, resistors should be ordinary.

   I don't agree with this.  Even when considering the fact that you may 
be limiting yourself to a single-sided board, there are many 
times where a SMT resistor makes sense.  You can put a SMT resistor right 
next to the input pins of op-amp chips.  For high-gain/low-noise 
situations, this is ideal.
   The only disadvantage to using SMT resistors is that they do need to 
be sized accordingly to the current they must carry.  0805s (1/10W) are 
probably  the smallest anyone should attempt, and I'd recommend staying 
with 1206 (1/8W) or 1210's (1/4W) for anyone who doesn't have a good 
steady hand and a very good soldering technique.

> The PCB can be single sided. SMD components go on solder
> side. Normally you *must* make double sided pcbs (if not
> multilayer) when you use SMD, but with a little patience you
> can replace the 2nd copper side with resistors.

   I don't agree with the multi-layer PCB being necessary.  Those only 
really become a requirement when certain high pin count packaging is 
used (BGA, PGA, PLCC, or Quads).  But in most cases where SOIC chips are 
used (or at worst, SSOP), then two-layers is quite sufficient and best to 
use, especially if a board house is doing the manufacturing!

> * Resistors ar standard (can easily read the value)

   Any SMT resistor 0805 or larger has the value printed on it.  I find 
it fairly easy to deal with.  Non-polarized capacitors, as well as most 
(if not all) SMT transistors, do not have any sort of markings on them 
and must be carefully kept separated from other like components!

> Cons:
> * As the SMD parts are on "the other side" now, I have
>    tothink in mirror image when I route the traces.

   Why not keep the SMT parts on the "right side" and put your resistors 
on "the other side"?  It might make it easier to keep track of things?

   Personally I enjoy what SMT allows me to do and would love to see more 
people working with it.  It's true, the technology isn't going away, and 
it does give you access to parts that aren't available in any other 
form.
   One question, Juergen, will your boards be compatible with the 
originals?!  I would be _very_ interested in that!

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001




From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 19:29:57 2002
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:29:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] 10K Pot into 1MEG Pot?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020325112711.13267A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <20020325182957.70029.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


Hi, does anybody out there have any ideas how to turn a 10K potentiometer into a 1MEG pot? I'm imagine using an OTA as a voltage controlled resistor, but just can't figure this one out yet! Any help here would be most appreciated-
Regards, Ken 
 


http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com
Home of the M3X Analogue synthesizer...


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalised at My Yahoo!.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020325/7c203e14/attachment.htm>

From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Mon Mar 25 19:46:49 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:46:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] 10K Pot into 1MEG Pot?
In-Reply-To: <20020325182957.70029.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251343260.22775-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Ken MacBeth wrote:

> 
> Hi, does anybody out there have any ideas how to turn a 10K
> potentiometer into a 1MEG pot? I'm imagine using an OTA as a voltage
> controlled resistor, but just can't figure this one out yet! Any help
> here would be most appreciated- Regards, Ken

  NatSemi datasheet for LM13600 has examples of single-ended and 
double-ended voltage-controlled resistors; see figs. 8 to 10.

http://www.oldcrows.net/ota/datasheets/lm13600.pdf

  Hope this helps?

Crow
/**/



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 20:05:04 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] CPLD
In-Reply-To: <3C9F5A0B.30209@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <20020325190504.41912.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>

Mark & Co.,

Yep. A CPLD is anarray of gates & flip-flops which is
configured by loading bits into an internal flash
memory. Those bits come from a software tool where you
can draw a schematic it gets compiled down to said
bits. I find it very cool and handy because I'm lazy.
The thought of soldering chips together all day
depresses me. If I gotta glue that many chips
together, it had better be for nachos!

Check out:
http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xil_prodcat_landingpage.jsp?title=CPLD+Products

--TR

**********************************************
The optimist says we live in the best possible
world, the pessimist fears he is right.
**********************************************
--- mark verbos <a0284520 at addcom.de> wrote:
> Is a CPLD an ic containing "software gates" or a
> programmable logic 
> array? I don't really get this stuff (never done any
> programming) but I 
> always wonder if you could replace huge seas of
> logic with a single chip 
> that you load software into.
> 
> Is it something like drawing the schematic on the
> screen and then 
> dumping it into the chip? That would be great for
> "updating" designs.
> 
> Where can I get real beginner's information on this
> stuff? Do I have to 
> go to Technical College?
> 
> mark
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From tsheets at saturn5.com  Mon Mar 25 20:23:43 2002
From: tsheets at saturn5.com (Troy Sheets)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:23:43 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] CPLD
In-Reply-To: <3C9F5A0B.30209@addcom.de>; from mark verbos on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 06:10:35PM +0100
References: <20020324194953.60302.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> <3C9F5A0B.30209@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <20020325112343.A24790@atari.saturn5.com>




I use Altera's Max Plus software, which is a nice,
all-in-on solution for writing and simulating your logic.  Max Plus comes
with a good reference for their AHDL logic description language.

So no, you don't draw your logic, you write a special software code for it.
You will find it *much* more powerful than drawing your logic.

CPLDs are non-volitle, which means they retain their code when there is no
power, unlike FPGAs, which need to be programmed at each power-up.

CPLDs can be programmed in-circuit with a simple dongle that will work with
any PC with a serial port.

I would recommend Altera's Max Plus software... it will contain everything
you will need to know about AHDL and programming CPLDs.  

-troy

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 06:10:35PM +0100, mark verbos wrote:
> Is a CPLD an ic containing "software gates" or a programmable logic 
> array? I don't really get this stuff (never done any programming) but I 
> always wonder if you could replace huge seas of logic with a single chip 
> that you load software into.
> 
> Is it something like drawing the schematic on the screen and then 
> dumping it into the chip? That would be great for "updating" designs.
> 
> Where can I get real beginner's information on this stuff? Do I have to 
> go to Technical College?
> 
> mark

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tsheets at saturn5.com                                  <- You have found me   
http://www.saturn5.com/tsheets/audio                 <- my .mp3 tracks
"I just don't have the discipline to be a hippie"    <- Homer J. Simpson


From philgallo at attglobal.net  Mon Mar 25 20:26:48 2002
From: philgallo at attglobal.net (phillip m gallo)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:26:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Alesis NanoTracker
Message-ID: <NDBBIHDOCLEONAFFOKBAEEMACFAA.philgallo@attglobal.net>

The Alesis NanoTracker arrived at work today from ALL-Electronics.  I will
test it's MIDI capability tonight.  It powered up and showed "rude" signs of
life.  I opened it and it seems to be composed of a XILINX PLD, a FLASH
chip, RAM and an 87C52.

regards,
p

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.342 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.342 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/02



From clark at andrews.edu  Mon Mar 25 20:35:39 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:35:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] My SMT projects
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020325131527.29626A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

   Since the discussion of surface mount technology cropped up, I thought 
I would share what I've been doing with it.  My idea was to make compact 
modules that had every feature I could think of built right in.  Somewhat 
inspired by Grant's fabulous work with the Wiard modules:  Lots of 
functionality in a small package.
   The first module, M101A is a classic VCO module, built around a 
modified ASM-1 core.
  
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m101a_01.jpg

   The VCO has 9 waveform outputs:  Sine, Triangle, Tangent, Sawtooth, 
Square, Pulse, double frequency (2x) Triangle, 2x Saw, 2x Square, and 2x 
Pulse.
   I ended up with this many different waveforms due in part to the 
waveshaper circuitry I used to get the sine waveform.  I find it 
different since it isn't necessary anymore to use two VCO's tuned one 
octave apart!

http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m101a_02.jpg
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m101a_03.jpg

   These images show a mostly completed PCB for the VCO.  I had run out 
of electrolytics at the time, so the bottom 2/3rds wasn't finished at the 
time of the photograph.  The top 1/3 of the PCB contains the VCO core, 
the other circuitry are the waveshapers.
   As this was the first of these modules, I did some things differently 
than I do them now.  I put all of the resistors on the bottom side of the 
board.  If I were to do it now, I would put as much as I could on one 
side and only resort to putting components on the bottom side if space 
became an issue.
   PCB statistics:  249 components, 588 connections

   The second module I did was a VCA board:

http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m201a_01.jpg
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m201b_01.jpg

   I used one PCB to make two distinct modules.  M201A is a quad VCA 
while M201B is a dual VCA with main outputs and soft-start circuitry to 
eliminating thumping on power-on.

http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m201a_02.jpg
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m201b_02.jpg

   In the above PCB pics, you can see that M101A uses the top-half of the 
PCB, while the lower-half is used for M101B.  On this board I was able to 
put all of the components on one side.
   PCB statistics: 307 components, 588 connections

   I have one more module, M301, which is a variation on the Moog ladder 
filter (variable pole) plus an onboard ring modulator.  I don't have any 
pictures of it up currently, but I may be able to add it in the next day 
or two.  It is the most complex board I have done to date with over 318 
parts and 685 connections!  For that board I did have to utilize the 
backside to put a few parts, but I limited it to the large 1210/1206 
resistors.

   All of the PCB's use 10mil traces with 10mil separation.  I think the 
latest board uses 8mil traces with 10mil separation.  I'm really pushing 
the limits of the PCB house that I get my boards from.  They guarantee 
8mil/8mil, and although their boards have been great, I did have a 
bridge that occurred on one board.
   Building boards this complex hasn't been without it's problems.  All 
of the boards have had at least a couple of errors (mainly due to 
schematic entry snafus), so I learn something new each time.

   Some other things of interest:  The boards are all completely CV or 
GATE controlled.  That made it more of a challenge, but more rewarding as 
literally everything can be modulated!
   The connectors are VME 96-pin and are great!  I like the fact that 
since the PCB isn't physically wired to the front panel, I can unplug the 
PCB and put in another one (if one should ever fail) without any hassle.
   The front panels are custom punched 1/8" anodizing grade aluminum with 
engraved legending.  The letters are hand-painted and then the whole 
panel is finished with a clear matte lacquer.  
   My first panels were hand lettered and finished with a hard 
polyurethane.  But it was extremely time consuming and frustrating.  In 
the end that kept me from making any more modules until I had found an 
adequate solution to my panel making problem!  I'm pretty happy now 
about the way they look although the lacquer is a bit fragile.  I need a 
good alternative that's more durable.  If anyone has a suggestion, let 
me know!

   Well that's about it for now! BTW, anyone who would like to see my 
modules in person should attend the AHMW show on April 6th.  I plan to 
bring them along with my Modcan and Fenix (plus something special...)  
   Details can be found here:

   http://www.ph.k12.in.us/~drew/ahmw2002.html

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001






From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Mar 25 20:57:15 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:57:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020325112711.13267A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <006201c1d437$5df96600$3770b9d9@debitel.net>

>    Glad to see that others are joining the SMT bandwagon!
[...]
> > ICs should be SMD, resistors should be ordinary.
>
>    I don't agree with this.  Even when considering the fact that you may
> be limiting yourself to a single-sided board, there are many
> times where a SMT resistor makes sense.

I'm sure you are right here. I'm just starting again with PCB stuff
after many years, and it's my first time to use SMD at all, so I'm
sure there's a lot more for me to discover. At the moment, I have
a complete E24 series of normal resistors, plus one decade of
E96, so I don't want to buy all that in SMD as well. For me, this
is just a hobby, after all. I can always mount an ordinary resistor
vertically, with 2.54mm distance, so it does not take up so much
more space than a SMD resistor. (I still have to pay for the holes,
though.) At the moment I really enjoy using resistors horizontally,
routed all over the SND chips on the other side. That's fun, because
it makes routings possible that I never dreamed of.

>    Why not keep the SMT parts on the "right side" and put your resistors
> on "the other side"?  It might make it easier to keep track of things?

Very good idea !!

>    One question, Juergen, will your boards be compatible with the
> originals?!  I would be _very_ interested in that!

No, not at all. I have simplified the oscillator circuits. For one VCO
+ 4 octave saw dividers + 4 octaves transpose circuit + triangle / pulse
waveshapers I only need this:

1 CD4520 (the two dividers)
7 bipolar transistors (VCO core and waveshapers)
1 CD4066 (transpose switches)
1 TL084 (replaces all the selected SK30's in the original, and most
                of the coupling capacitors)
1 FET (unselected)

While it's not compatible to an original PS-3100, the good thing is that
it will go on standard double europa cards with two DIN41612 connectors
which are mounted into a 19" 6U rack frame. So building more than one
will be not entirely impossible this time.

But it's all just in the very beginning. I will first build one VCO card
(6VCOs), and see what it costs and how good it works. Then I'll decide
wheter to cancel it all, to build a second card (PS-3100), or to build
three more cards (and go for PS-3200).
If I say "PS-something", I just mean the general route. 2 oscillators
per voice will not mean patch storage, nor the lack of a 3100's
resonators. I still have to decide if I'm using the original ADSRs
or something of my own, for instance.

Just in case I would really go for patch storage (gladly, I don't have
to make that decision now; it can be added later) -
Dou you know a source for 10k lin pull-pots ?

JH.






From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 25 21:04:59 2002
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:04:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] 10K Pot into 1MEG Pot?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251343260.22775-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>
Message-ID: <20020325200459.46778.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>


Hey, thanks, Crow, I'll give this a try!
Regards, Ken 
  The Old Crow <oldcrow at oldcrows.net> wrote: On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Ken MacBeth wrote:

> 
> Hi, does anybody out there have any ideas how to turn a 10K
> potentiometer into a 1MEG pot? I'm imagine using an OTA as a voltage
> controlled resistor, but just can't figure this one out yet! Any help
> here would be most appreciated- Regards, Ken

NatSemi datasheet for LM13600 has examples of single-ended and 
double-ended voltage-controlled resistors; see figs. 8 to 10.

http://www.oldcrows.net/ota/datasheets/lm13600.pdf

Hope this helps?

Crow
/**/


http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com
Home of the M3X Analogue synthesizer...


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalised at My Yahoo!.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020325/721949eb/attachment.htm>

From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Mon Mar 25 21:21:03 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:21:03 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Synth site up again
Message-ID: <200203252021.g2PKL2U14403@yakko.hotkey.net.au>


My synth site is back up again http://198.164.142.50/~cgs/

Have fun!

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From shockadd at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 25 22:06:23 2002
From: shockadd at hotmail.com (David D)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:06:23 
Subject: [sdiy] Micromoog from hell!
Message-ID: <F206wNeZsjSFUMCGlbZ0001c189@hotmail.com>





>  actually, replacing the psu in the multi/micro can be a great 
>improvement...I replaced a crippled psu in a multi with your standard 78/79 
>regulator psu, it worked a treat!


Right on!  Also another great improvement that is pretty cheap is to replace 
all the trim pots with multi-turns. I dont know about you but every 
Micro/Multi Ive ever had on the bench has stood right to attention whenever 
Ive done this as the trim pots moog used where kinda cheap and by now are 
shot and can make testing/trimming them a nightmare!

  Gonna add two more VCO's to my personal MicroMoog in the near future- 
should I use two CEM3340's or one CEM3374?? Anyone?

Best-

   DavidD



"The Jupiter 8 is sex in orange and silver"

           Nick Rhodes - Duran Duran


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



From thereminhd at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 00:11:43 2002
From: thereminhd at yahoo.com (Matt Jones)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:11:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] CPLD
In-Reply-To: <3C9F5A0B.30209@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <20020325231143.73858.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>


--- mark verbos <a0284520 at addcom.de> wrote:
> Is a CPLD an ic containing "software gates" or a
> programmable logic 
> array? I don't really get this stuff (never done any
> programming) but I 
> always wonder if you could replace huge seas of
> logic with a single chip 
> that you load software into.

Pretty much. Some of the biggest FPGAs available 
can replicate the function of 3-4 million logic gates.

> Is it something like drawing the schematic on the
> screen and then 
> dumping it into the chip? That would be great for
> "updating" designs.

Depending on the software used to program the chip,
you can either draw out the schematic or describe it
using a hardware description language. In both cases,
the software takes the circuit description and 
generates (much like compiling a program) a bit 
pattern for the logic device.

> 
> Where can I get real beginner's information on this
> stuff? Do I have to 
> go to Technical College?
> 

A quick Google search turned up this paper:

http://www.eecg.toronto.edu/~jayar/pubs/brown/survey.html

Or else you can go to any of the major manufacturers
(altera.com, xilinx.com) and see what they have.

Personally, Xilinx has been quite impressive recently,
releasing a free version of it's design software and
offering direct web sales of single devices.

Latre..

  --mdj


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Tue Mar 26 00:36:34 2002
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:36:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d404$1acbb500$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>; from t.hogers@home.nl on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 02:51:03PM +0100
References: <000701c1d3d4$f0e5bd00$aa007bca@yashmachine1> <002001c1d3ec$88029de0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <20020325124743.GF910@teaser.fr> <000d01c1d404$1acbb500$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <20020326003634.B530@teaser.fr>

On 2002-03-25 14:51 +0100, Theo wrote:

> > I don't have a D* but I have an MT32 (which is I believe the
> > expander version of the D10 or D20) and in this model, the hiss
> > never stops. To me it sounds like digital noise centred around 10
> > kHz leaking into the analogue circuit.
>
> I don't have a D10 for reference but my D50 and MT32 both have
> some sort of a noise gate.  Atleast that is how I interpreted
> the increase of noise level when you play a note.  Though it
> might be no gate at all but a simple matter that no extra noise
> is generated when the system is at rest.  The 10khz noise is
> present in my units too, the source seems to be the (reverb) FX
> units.

Okay, just checked. Tried changing the reverb mode between 0 and
10, setting the individual timbre volumes to 0, and setting the
master volume to 0. None of this had any perceptible effect on the
hiss. Basically the hiss starts three seconds after the unit is
powered up and stops only when it is powered down.

I don't know if it's normal or not for an MT32 to do that ; mine
always has, ever since I've had it (circa 1991).

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From adam at hoodmusic.net  Tue Mar 26 02:35:31 2002
From: adam at hoodmusic.net (adam at hoodmusic.net)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:35:31 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] CPLD
References: <20020325190504.41912.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD063.CB122821@hoodmusic.net>

Hi
    anyone know of any CPLD design packages for the mac users, or has anyone
run any of them in emulation with any luck?

adam



From t.hogers at home.nl  Tue Mar 26 02:43:03 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:43:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
References: <000701c1d3d4$f0e5bd00$aa007bca@yashmachine1> <002001c1d3ec$88029de0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <20020325124743.GF910@teaser.fr> <000d01c1d404$1acbb500$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <20020326003634.B530@teaser.fr>
Message-ID: <002201c1d467$91ef8cc0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

I just cured the Alzheimer syndrome of my MT32.
After installing the new roms it sounded to me like the noise from the unit
was different.
While the MT32 was on the bench anyway it seemed like a good idea to take a
look at noise.
BTW I did not swap the ROMs again to check for differences.

The results from measurements on the output (no sound generated) surprised
me a bit.
General noise level was about 80mV.
But using averaging the scope showed 3 main components in the signal:
10Mhz 80 mV top/top,  AM modulated with 1.5Mhz and
a component around 150 to 200 hz about 20mV t/t.

I can't place the 10Mhz signal, it is very clear and prominent,
but the Xtals in the MT32 are 12 and 32Mhz, no easy way to get 10.
Also notable was the absence of sample or clock noise,
I expected to see something around 10khz or so.
Maybe the hiss we hear is a intermodulation product of the higher
'un-hearable' frequencies?
In the 10 to 20khz range there was only noise (averaging to zero) and no
trace of a clock signal.

Although the PCB layout is conform the book I measured 'massive' pollution
of the analogue ground with the 32Mhz system clock.
But this is killed by the ferrite breads that connect the internal AGND with
the outside world (ground on the jacks).
Anyway changing the GND circuit does not seem possible.

I will hook the unit up again tomorrow and see how it does when sound is
generated.

Theo



From: Andre Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>

> On 2002-03-25 14:51 +0100, Theo wrote:
>
> > > I don't have a D* but I have an MT32 (which is I believe the
> > > expander version of the D10 or D20) and in this model, the hiss
> > > never stops. To me it sounds like digital noise centred around 10
> > > kHz leaking into the analogue circuit.
> >
> > I don't have a D10 for reference but my D50 and MT32 both have
> > some sort of a noise gate.  Atleast that is how I interpreted
> > the increase of noise level when you play a note.  Though it
> > might be no gate at all but a simple matter that no extra noise
> > is generated when the system is at rest.  The 10khz noise is
> > present in my units too, the source seems to be the (reverb) FX
> > units.
>
> Okay, just checked. Tried changing the reverb mode between 0 and
> 10, setting the individual timbre volumes to 0, and setting the
> master volume to 0. None of this had any perceptible effect on the
> hiss. Basically the hiss starts three seconds after the unit is
> powered up and stops only when it is powered down.
>
> I don't know if it's normal or not for an MT32 to do that ; mine
> always has, ever since I've had it (circa 1991).
>
> --
> Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
> http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Tue Mar 26 04:25:25 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:25:25 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
Message-ID: <104.1304e04f.29d14425@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/25/02 5:52:03 AM, t.hogers at home.nl writes:

<< I don't have a D10 for reference but my D50 and MT32 both have some sort of

a noise gate. >>

Yeah, I think they do, but it's definitely not an analog circuit - it's just 
part of the digital stream.



From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Tue Mar 26 04:29:19 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:29:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] broken juno on ebay.
Message-ID: <3C9FEB0F.ECB17946@verizon.net>



I'm posting not to tip people off to a possible good purchase, but to
try to claim as my own.

heh.. There is a broken juno106 on ebay, that I plan on bidding on.

If other people bid on it, that's your right after all, but if
somebody else on this list wins it, would you sell me the bender
section?

-ben


From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Mar 26 05:16:03 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:16:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020325225910.29822A-100000@edmund.cs.andrews.edu>

   Module M301 Varable Slope VCF + Ring Modulator:

http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m301a_02.jpg

   And PCB in rack:

http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m301a_03.jpg

   And finally two pictures of a number of modules in rack from the 
backside:

http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/mod_bk1.jpg
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/mod_bk2.jpg

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From petergrenader at mksound.com  Tue Mar 26 05:29:35 2002
From: petergrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:29:35 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020325225910.29822A-100000@edmund.cs.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <B8C5554F.2C1%petergrenader@mksound.com>

Allow me to ask (another) dumb question:  How does one solder a surface
mount component w/o a vapor-phase/solder-paste set-up?

Seems to me to be a 'don't try this at home" sort of deal, no?



on 3/25/02 10:16 PM, Tony Clark at clark at andrews.edu wrote:

> Module M301 Varable Slope VCF + Ring Modulator:
> 
> http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m301a_02.jpg
> 
> And PCB in rack:
> 
> http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m301a_03.jpg
> 
> And finally two pictures of a number of modules in rack from the
> backside:
> 
> http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/mod_bk1.jpg
> http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/mod_bk2.jpg
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tony
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
> - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
> Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001
> 




From petergrenader at mksound.com  Tue Mar 26 06:40:11 2002
From: petergrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:40:11 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Get a load outta this
In-Reply-To: <104.1304e04f.29d14425@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8C565DB.2C9%petergrenader@mksound.com>

Once again, that 25 year old Serge has shown up on eBay by the same
guy....third time's a charm!  But hark..now he sets an entry bid a t a low
low $1000 PER PANEL!

I am going to start a new list serv entitled "People who (try to) ruin the
used synthesizer market".





From gatrall at pacbell.net  Tue Mar 26 06:56:42 2002
From: gatrall at pacbell.net (Simon Gatrall)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:56:42 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
In-Reply-To: <B8C5554F.2C1%petergrenader@mksound.com>
References: <B8C5554F.2C1%petergrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <v04220800b8c5bcd2213c@[64.172.21.178]>

>Allow me to ask (another) dumb question:  How does one solder a surface
>mount component w/o a vapor-phase/solder-paste set-up?

Dumb answer: with solder and a soldering iron.

Longer answer: I have soldered far too many PCBs with SMT parts 
including 0604s and 100pin SQFPs (0.5mm pitch).  The tricks are to 
use really fine solder and a very fine soldering iron, and often a 
lot of flux.  0805s and bigger are actually easier and quicker to 
deal with than through-hole components.  You don't have to bend or 
trim the leads, and you never have to learn the resistor color code.

>Seems to me to be a 'don't try this at home" sort of deal, no?

Some people even do the solder paste thing at home, but that's a bit 
more of a pain because the paste only stays good for so long and you 
need decent control over temperature.

-s!mon


From macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 09:04:13 2002
From: macbeth2600 at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ken=20MacBeth?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:04:13 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] 10K Pot into 1MEG Pot?
In-Reply-To: <20020325231021.VQKJ598.out018.verizon.net@mail.lan>
Message-ID: <20020326080413.82461.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


 Scott, I want to play around with circuits that use sliders- easiest to get is 10k, I thought that I could experiment with making different values!
  Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net> wrote: I'm curious, what would make you go to this trouble
when for about $5.00 (or less), you can get the real 
thing?

I've looked at OTA based VC resistors, but the single
ended one is AC coupled, and the floating one is
too complicated, using both OTAs in a dual package.

Also, these circuits are not potentiometers, they
are variable resistors (or rheostats). They do not
have the equivalent of two end terminals and a
wiper. To do that, you'd have to build two of them,
and drive the control voltages inversely. This could
require up to 2 LM13700 packages and an opamp for 
control voltage inversion plus a small garden of 
resistors. Add two more opamps for a voltage to
current converter to drive Iabc current if you want
linear operation (a resistor is a crappy current source).


wrote:
>
>
>Hey, thanks, Crow, I'll give this a try!
>Regards, Ken 
> The Old Crow wrote: On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Ken MacBeth wrote:
>
>> 
>> Hi, does anybody out there have any ideas how to turn a 10K
>> potentiometer into a 1MEG pot? I'm imagine using an OTA as a voltage
>> controlled resistor, but just can't figure this one out yet! Any help
>> here would be most appreciated- Regards, Ken
>
>NatSemi datasheet for LM13600 has examples of single-ended and 
>double-ended voltage-controlled resistors; see figs. 8 to 10.
>
>http://www.oldcrows.net/ota/datasheets/lm13600.pdf
>
>Hope this helps?
>
>Crow
>/**/
>
>
>http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com
>Home of the M3X Analogue synthesizer...


========================================================= 
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html



http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com
Home of the M3X Analogue synthesizer...


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalised at My Yahoo!.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020326/f58569c7/attachment.htm>

From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Tue Mar 26 09:05:23 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:05:23 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Get a load outta this
Message-ID: <200203260805.g2Q85NY05277@dm.hotkey.net.au>

It really strikes me as amazing, especially with what goes into an old
Serge. Sure, if it had a Bode, a delay line and a few other choice modules
in it, you could understand, but the vintage Serge are really simple
circuits. One panel I have here has nothing more than a pair of 4017 and a
handful of transistors beind it.

Ken

>Once again, that 25 year old Serge has shown up on eBay by the same
>guy....third time's a charm!  But hark..now he sets an entry bid a t a low
>low $1000 PER PANEL!
>
>I am going to start a new list serv entitled "People who (try to) ruin the
>used synthesizer market".
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From pgrenader at mksound.com  Tue Mar 26 09:12:31 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:12:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Design helps from the masters...
In-Reply-To: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A691F@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>
Message-ID: <B8C57B72.3036%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Guys/gals,

As possibly stated before, I am a hack circuit designer.  But a hack in need
of a little assistance, if you can fancy my question for a sec:

I am in need of a comparator circuit which will allow me to basically
selectably enable a gate or trigger signal to pass through based on the bias
setting of an offset pot.

I own a Doe. MAQ 16/3.  Great unit.  There are two things I wish it did
though that it doesn't.  Wish I could drive it from an external analog
trigger.  Can't do that.  I can drive the rest of my patch from the MAQ's
internal trigger, but VC of periodicity at that point suffers. Another thing
it doesn't have is separate pulse outs for each of the steps.  This is
undoubtedly because each bank can run indepentantly of another, thus
requiring 48 jacks to do this (16 x 3).

There is a way around though which would probably suffice my needs, although
it will not decode separate outs for each steps, it would allow me to turn
certain step's pulses on or off at will: Take the ganged pulse out of any of
the banks and run it through a comparator and use the  bank voltage of one
of the sequencer's banks as an enabling source into the other side of the
comparator.  In this way, I could turn the pulse out off or on at any given
step based on the offset voltage present at that time.

I currently do this using a modified version of Chris McDonald's voltage
adder - I just offset the output of a sequencer bank so the bottom half of
travel is below ground, then use that output to drive a VC switch that is
gating the ganged pulse out of the sequencer bank I am working with.  Steps
above about 1 volt will pass a pulse, those below do not. I would like to do
this though without incorporating the adder, which I need to use all the
time for a billion other reasons.

Anyone have a good starting point for me, the hack designer that I am?

Thanks so much for taking your time with this.

best,

Peter




From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Tue Mar 26 10:58:11 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:58:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A691D@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

Hi, please find my a dumb question inline...
and other comments too

""-----Original Message-----
""From: Tony Clark [mailto:clark at andrews.edu]
""Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 7:15 PM
""To: Synth-DIY

""Subject: Re: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
""   The only disadvantage to using SMT resistors is that they 
""do need to 
""be sized accordingly to the current they must carry.  0805s 
""(1/10W) are 
""probably  the smallest anyone should attempt, and I'd 
""recommend staying 
""with 1206 (1/8W) or 1210's (1/4W) for anyone who doesn't have a good 
""steady hand and a very good soldering technique.

Does that mean, not carefull soldering causes resistor's parameters
to derate? Does its resistance change, or does it influence reliability?
Actually, yesterday I experienced for the first time how 0603 resistor
can be broken, but I thought it was just bad quality component.
How soldering with iron (not hot-air & paste) influences SMD part?


""   Any SMT resistor 0805 or larger has the value printed on 
""it.  I find 
""it fairly easy to deal with.  Non-polarized capacitors, as 
""well as most 
""(if not all) SMT transistors, do not have any sort of 
""markings on them 
""and must be carefully kept separated from other like components!

I saw many times markings on capacitors - a letter and one digit.
Letter was for prefix, and digit was number of zeros. Now either my eyes
are too bad, or they simply stopped marking them...

""   Personally I enjoy what SMT allows me to do and would love 
""to see more 
""people working with it.

I have the same feeling. What I like the most is that it looks so cute ;)

Roman


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Tue Mar 26 11:35:06 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:35:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My SMT projects
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A691F@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

It's so **#*$#$*#%@ing great!
This is the best made modular I've ever seen.
Please take my words of admiration.

I also want to make it similar, meaning one pcb with pots
and piggy-backed second one with circuitry. But I'm far
behind you at the moment.

BTW, do you have schematic to your modules posted somewhere?

Roman

""-----Original Message-----
""From: Tony Clark [mailto:clark at andrews.edu]
""Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 8:36 PM
""To: Synth-DIY
""Subject: [sdiy] My SMT projects
""
""
""   Since the discussion of surface mount technology cropped 
""up, I thought 
""I would share what I've been doing with it.  My idea was to 
""make compact 
""modules that had every feature I could think of built right 
""in.  Somewhat 
""inspired by Grant's fabulous work with the Wiard modules:  Lots of 
""functionality in a small package.
""   The first module, M101A is a classic VCO module, built around a 
""modified ASM-1 core.
""  
""http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m1
""01a_01.jpg
""


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl  Tue Mar 26 11:52:34 2002
From: Roman.Sowa at upc.com.pl (Sowa Roman)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:52:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
Message-ID: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A6920@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>

I use 15 Watt iron plugged into light dimmer ;)
Soldering tip I make myself by sharping 3mm copper rod.

It's easier to achieve good solder points than with thru hole.
At least for me.

Roman

""-----Original Message-----
""From: Peter Grenader [mailto:petergrenader at mksound.com]
""Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 5:30 AM
""To: Tony Clark; Synth-DIY
""Subject: Re: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
""
""
""Allow me to ask (another) dumb question:  How does one solder 
""a surface
""mount component w/o a vapor-phase/solder-paste set-up?
""
""Seems to me to be a 'don't try this at home" sort of deal, no?
""
""
""
""on 3/25/02 10:16 PM, Tony Clark at clark at andrews.edu wrote:
""
""> Module M301 Varable Slope VCF + Ring Modulator:
""> 
""> 
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m301a_02.jpg
> 
> And PCB in rack:
> 
> http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m301a_03.jpg
> 
> And finally two pictures of a number of modules in rack from the
> backside:
> 
> http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/mod_bk1.jpg
> http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/mod_bk2.jpg
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tony
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
> - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
> Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001
> 




---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.


---------------------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses by MIMESweeper.

Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona pod katem wirusow przez
oprogramowanie MIMESweeper.



From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Mar 26 14:40:14 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:40:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
In-Reply-To: <B8C5554F.2C1%petergrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326083359.2643A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Allow me to ask (another) dumb question:  How does one solder a surface
> mount component w/o a vapor-phase/solder-paste set-up?
> 
> Seems to me to be a 'don't try this at home" sort of deal, no?

   Every module I have made was soldered by hand!  The way to solder SMT 
is rather simple:

   1) Apply a small amount of solder to one pad.
   2) Position the part in place and quickly solder it in place.
   3) Apply solder to remaining pad(s).

   Usually I'll place all of one value on a PCB at a time, so I'll go 
through and do step 1 to all of the parts I'm going to put on.  Not only 
does it save time, but it also helps me keep good visual track of where 
the parts should go (so I don't have to keep referencing the component 
placement sheets).

   As someone else mentioned, you do need fine solder wire (I use 0.020 
_ROSIN CORE_!), and a good fine tip.  The tips that come with most 
soldering irons will be too wide at the tip for good work.

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Mar 26 14:48:57 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:48:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
In-Reply-To: <v04220800b8c5bcd2213c@[64.172.21.178]>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326084030.2643B-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Some people even do the solder paste thing at home, but that's a bit 
> more of a pain because the paste only stays good for so long and you 
> need decent control over temperature.

   My advice:

   DON'T DO SOLDER PASTE AT HOME!!!!

   First of all, since lead _IS_ a poisonous substance, dealing with 
paste can be dangerous since it is in a liquid suspension and can easily 
contaminate anything it touches!
   Second, solder paste is designed to be put through a carefully 
controlled temperature cycle in order to properly bond compnents to the 
PCB.  While I'm sure it could be done (poorly) with a standard oven, I 
don't recommend it.
   Third, paste flux is a fickle beast.  It tends to change properties 
the longer it is exposed to air (meaning short life cycle in production 
environments).  Even at work, we have to buy flux thinning agents to keep 
the paste batch from drying out.
   So in short, it is really too expensive (and dangerous) of a prospect to 
attempt paste at a home or DIY level.

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From sbernardi at attbi.com  Tue Mar 26 15:13:47 2002
From: sbernardi at attbi.com (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:13:47 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Micromoog from hell!
References: <F206wNeZsjSFUMCGlbZ0001c189@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA0821B.277567B4@attbi.com>

I've used both the CEM3340 and the dual CEM3374. The thing about the CEM3374 is
that is doesn't have the whole temperature compensation built in - you have to
either use tempco resistors, or a multiplier to multiply the control voltage by
a temperature dependent voltage that is available on one of the pins.
See http://home.attbi.com/~sbernardi/elec/og2/og2_cem3374.html for a circuit for
CEM3374 (uses tempco resistors)

David D wrote:

> >  actually, replacing the psu in the multi/micro can be a great
> >improvement...I replaced a crippled psu in a multi with your standard 78/79
> >regulator psu, it worked a treat!
>
> Right on!  Also another great improvement that is pretty cheap is to replace
> all the trim pots with multi-turns. I dont know about you but every
> Micro/Multi Ive ever had on the bench has stood right to attention whenever
> Ive done this as the trim pots moog used where kinda cheap and by now are
> shot and can make testing/trimming them a nightmare!
>
>   Gonna add two more VCO's to my personal MicroMoog in the near future-
> should I use two CEM3340's or one CEM3374?? Anyone?
>
> Best-
>
>    DavidD
>
> "The Jupiter 8 is sex in orange and silver"
>
>            Nick Rhodes - Duran Duran
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at attbi.com




From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Mar 26 15:14:19 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:14:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
In-Reply-To: <05D57C621115D411AA7B00B0D0208972059A691D@aka1exc008.kat1.upc.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326085348.2643C-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Does that mean, not carefull soldering causes resistor's parameters
> to derate? Does its resistance change, or does it influence reliability?
> Actually, yesterday I experienced for the first time how 0603 resistor
> can be broken, but I thought it was just bad quality component.
> How soldering with iron (not hot-air & paste) influences SMD part?

   No, I'm not suggesting that normal soldering will cause resistor 
parameters to change.  What I'm suggesting is that someone who doesn't 
have good steady hands will probably be frustrated trying to solder super 
small parts like 0603's.
   Yes, you can damage SMT parts with a soldering iron.  The difference 
between using an iron and using a reflow oven are very great!  A 
soldering iron has a very high temperature, higher than a reflow oven.  
The trick is to keep the iron on the SMT part for as short of a time as 
possible.
   Heating a SMT chip up too far will cause the contacts to separate from 
the ceramic carrier thereby ruining the part.  Sometimes it can be hard 
to spot a damaged resistor since the separation can be very small, but 
enough to ruin the part.
   In general, all SMT parts are much smaller than an equivilant 
thru-hole components, and that means less mass in which to dissapate heat 
through.
   It is good advice to purchase a 500 or 600 degree tip for your 
soldering iron if you are just starting out with SMT.  The lower 
temperature will help prevent thermal damage to SMT parts.

> I saw many times markings on capacitors - a letter and one digit.
> Letter was for prefix, and digit was number of zeros. Now either my eyes
> are too bad, or they simply stopped marking them...

   You are right, there are letters/numbers, but I haven't really 
correlated that to a value.  And typically, those markings are really 
hard to read anyway as capacitors usually print grey on brown, which 
doesn't show up nearly as well as white on black (resistors).

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From Mark.Smith at pace.co.uk  Tue Mar 26 15:22:28 2002
From: Mark.Smith at pace.co.uk (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:22:28 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
Message-ID: <44632C76B97BD211AF6B00805FADCAB205F6A055@exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk>

This works great for me too, it is a remarkably quick way of building a PCB. There is no pre-forming or cutting required.

my projects :

http://www.meadowfield.freeuk.com/synth/tb303b.html

apologies for the poor resolution -  video camera was used.

mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Tony Clark [SMTP:clark at andrews.edu]
> Sent:	Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:40 PM
> To:	Synth-DIY
> Subject:	Re: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
> 
> > Allow me to ask (another) dumb question:  How does one solder a surface
> > mount component w/o a vapor-phase/solder-paste set-up?
> > 
> > Seems to me to be a 'don't try this at home" sort of deal, no?
> 
>    Every module I have made was soldered by hand!  The way to solder SMT 
> is rather simple:
> 
>    1) Apply a small amount of solder to one pad.
>    2) Position the part in place and quickly solder it in place.
>    3) Apply solder to remaining pad(s).
> 
>    Usually I'll place all of one value on a PCB at a time, so I'll go 
> through and do step 1 to all of the parts I'm going to put on.  Not only 
> does it save time, but it also helps me keep good visual track of where 
> the parts should go (so I don't have to keep referencing the component 
> placement sheets).
> 
>    As someone else mentioned, you do need fine solder wire (I use 0.020 
> _ROSIN CORE_!), and a good fine tip.  The tips that come with most 
> soldering irons will be too wide at the tip for good work.
> 
>    Cheers,
> 
>    Tony
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>          The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
>    - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
>      Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001


From debus at cityweb.de  Tue Mar 26 15:49:50 2002
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:49:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Roland D-10 modifications
References: <000701c1d3d4$f0e5bd00$aa007bca@yashmachine1> <002001c1d3ec$88029de0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com> <20020325124743.GF910@teaser.fr> <000d01c1d404$1acbb500$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>
Message-ID: <3CA08A8D.90346493@cityweb.de>



Theo wrote:
> 
> I don't have a D10 for reference but my D50 and MT32 both have some sort of
> a noise gate.
> Atleast that is how I interpreted the increase of noise level when you play
> a note.
> Though it might be no gate at all but a simple matter that no extra noise is
> generated when the system is at rest.

Couldn't that be quantization and/or aliasing noise? I don't know the
D50, but I do know the DX7...

Ingo



From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Tue Mar 26 15:53:04 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:53:04 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [sdiy] broken juno on ebay.]
Message-ID: <3CA08B50.F07863C2@verizon.net>


I think dave wanted this to go to the list:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [sdiy] broken juno on ebay.
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:45:33 +0800
From: davedean at iinet.net.au
To: chromatest at graffiti.net

Considering theres a post about the Juno106 today, and I just found a
REALLY cheap 
one for sale :)

It seems to have "stuck notes" but a search on Google doesn't seem to
reveal this as 
a problem with Juno106's .. so did I just not use it right in my
"test"? ?

I plugged in headphones, turned it on in TEST mode (Keytranspose
down), held down 
the two pitch buttons and it showed me which voices it was using to
play. Very handy - 
except it kept on making a sound when keys were left alone.

I turned up the volume knob on the lower left to hear it at all
initially .. and it played 
fine on some patches, except if you changed them (filter mainly) it
would get "stuck" all 
over again.

I'd really like to get it, cause its REALLY cheap (AU $550) but if
it's just broken and 
that's all there is, that'd suck. Please help! :)

-Dave

On 25 Mar 2002 at 22:29, Chromatest Pantsmaker wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm posting not to tip people off to a possible good purchase, but to
> try to claim as my own.
> 
> heh.. There is a broken juno106 on ebay, that I plan on bidding on.
> 
> If other people bid on it, that's your right after all, but if
> somebody else on this list wins it, would you sell me the bender
> section?
> 
> -ben
>


From djmarmalade at planetp.org  Tue Mar 26 16:05:02 2002
From: djmarmalade at planetp.org (DJ Marmalade)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:05:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Get a load outta this
References: <B8C565DB.2C9%petergrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <024801c1d4d7$9b5cec60$3da2d03f@gretta>

It seems to me that he got a reasonable bid on that system.  The last final
bid was almost $1100.  Considering that Keven Lightner's panels got up to
about $1800 each suggests to me that the market IS working and he (the guy
with the old panels) simply wants too much.  So, I'm curious about my
perception from those of you who worship this serge stuff...are those old
panels worth MORE Than $1100 for the pair?

Daryl


> Once again, that 25 year old Serge has shown up on eBay by the same
> guy....third time's a charm!  But hark..now he sets an entry bid a t a low
> low $1000 PER PANEL!
>
> I am going to start a new list serv entitled "People who (try to) ruin the
> used synthesizer market".
>
>
>



From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Tue Mar 26 17:09:55 2002
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:09:55 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Dual Concentric Pots?  (20k Linear) Anyone have a good source?
Message-ID: <B8C5EB63.354A%cynthia.webster@gte.net>

Hi Gang!

Does anyone know where I can find an inexpensive source for
Dual-Concentric pots?

Ideally I'd like to fine either Dual 10K or 20K Linear tapered Pots
(that can of course be controlled separately)  actually anything in the 5K
to 50k range might work.

I went to the Alan-Bradly, Bourns, and Nobel websites - and was really
disappointed...

If you needed a really exotic concentric potentiometer,
(like one with a 100k Audio Taper, AND a 5k Linear taper, AND a switch)...
Aren't there companies making pots with easy to mix and match modules that
stack behind one another)?

(actually these might be pretty expensive?
I guess that I'm really looking for a Surplus stash of 10K or 20K Linear
Concentrics)

I am simply amazed at all the talent that I see on this list...
SMTs?  Golly, aren't Dips - small enough? LOL!

Thanks  

Cynthia




From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Mar 26 18:06:55 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:06:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
In-Reply-To: <44632C76B97BD211AF6B00805FADCAB205F6A055@exchange.saltaire.pace.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326120552.10231D-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

   Hi Mark,

> http://www.meadowfield.freeuk.com/synth/tb303b.html
> 
> apologies for the poor resolution -  video camera was used.

   Great stuff!  Post some more pictures if you get a chance!

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From elmystico at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 26 18:42:40 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Magus Ship)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:42:40 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] noise source crap out
Message-ID: <E16pv2c-0006ib-00@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Thanks everyone for the advice on this, I swapped out the transistor for a
new one and it sounds great! Better than before.
----------
>From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
>To: Magus Ship <elmystico at earthlink.net>, synth <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] noise source crap out
>Date: Sat, Mar 23, 2002, 12:50 PM
>

>Yo,
>
>I don't think the caps are the problem. Here is how my
>coffee-addled brain would approach it:
>
>Step 1: Check power supplies on the opamps
>Step 2: Ohm out the ground connections
>Step 3: Inspect the board for cold joints etc.
>Step 4: Flex board and listen for output changes
>        --> if you hear changes, re-solder all joints
>Step 5: If you have a scope, look at outputs of amps.
>Look for distortion, heavy dc biases, clipping, etc.
>Step 6: If the opamps are socketed, swap opamps one at
>a time.
>Step 7: Swap the transistor
>
>Questions, queries, posers:
>
>All outputs affected? Or just one?
>Varies after turn-on? Or constant?
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>--TR
>
>*******************************
>When in doubt, gulp a Hexuccino
>*******************************
>
>--- Magus Ship <elmystico at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> "All of a sudden" my homebuilt noise source, which
>> is based on the
>> Electronotes and ASM-1 designs has crapped out. 
>> What used to be a rich hiss
>> has become a futzy stream of what sounds like badly
>> band pass filtered pink
>> noise.  Around this time the ground connection at my
>> power supply became
>> desoldered (unrelated? related?).  My question is
>> whether the transistor or
>> the filter caps to get pink and Random Low Frequency
>> outputs would be the
>> problem.  Is it possible that a transistor that
>> provides good noise can
>> change or crap out over time?  Or is it more likely
>> that a cap or a bad
>> connection in the filters would produce this effect?
>> thanks as always.
>> Gavin 
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
>http://movies.yahoo.com/


From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Mar 26 18:52:33 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:52:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
In-Reply-To: <006201c1d437$5df96600$3770b9d9@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326122447.10231E-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> No, not at all. I have simplified the oscillator circuits. For one VCO
> + 4 octave saw dividers + 4 octaves transpose circuit + triangle / pulse
> waveshapers I only need this:
> 
> 1 CD4520 (the two dividers)
> 7 bipolar transistors (VCO core and waveshapers)
> 1 CD4066 (transpose switches)
> 1 TL084 (replaces all the selected SK30's in the original, and most
>                 of the coupling capacitors)
> 1 FET (unselected)

   Wow, that seems very minimalistic.  The reason I was inquiring is that 
one of the top-octave divider chips is bad on a 3100 I'm restoring and 
I'm always in the lookout for a replacement that doesn't involve obsolete 
and hard to find parts.
   I'm guessing that you are using a pulse to saw converter for each 
output, so I'm curious as to how stable the amplitude outputs will be as 
the frequency of the core is shifted?  Or are you not worrying about 
that?

> While it's not compatible to an original PS-3100, the good thing is that
> it will go on standard double europa cards with two DIN41612 connectors
> which are mounted into a 19" 6U rack frame. So building more than one
> will be not entirely impossible this time.

   Very nice!

> But it's all just in the very beginning. I will first build one VCO card
> (6VCOs), and see what it costs and how good it works. Then I'll decide
> wheter to cancel it all, to build a second card (PS-3100), or to build
> three more cards (and go for PS-3200).

   Why not go for 5 more cards and have the grand-daddy PS-3300?!

> If I say "PS-something", I just mean the general route. 2 oscillators
> per voice will not mean patch storage, nor the lack of a 3100's
> resonators. I still have to decide if I'm using the original ADSRs
> or something of my own, for instance.

   Well whatever you decide to do, I know it will be a fantastic piece of 
engineering and work when you are through!

> Just in case I would really go for patch storage (gladly, I don't have
> to make that decision now; it can be added later) -
> Dou you know a source for 10k lin pull-pots ?

   Unfortunately, no.  Specialty pots and switches are some of the 
hardest things to track down.  :(  Good luck to you in finding them!
   And keep us posted on your progress!  ;)

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Mar 26 19:11:36 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:11:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Dual Concentric Pots? (20k Linear) Anyone have a good source?
In-Reply-To: <B8C5EB63.354A%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326130419.10231G@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Ideally I'd like to fine either Dual 10K or 20K Linear tapered Pots
> (that can of course be controlled separately)  actually anything in the 5K
> to 50k range might work.
> 
> I went to the Alan-Bradly, Bourns, and Nobel websites - and was really
> disappointed...

   Here's a possibility:

   http://www.tocos.com/panelcon/panel_pdf/ra30yd.pdf

   I just went to google and typed in "ganged pots", but you may 
find more results using "concentric potentiometers".

   Good luck!

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Mar 26 20:11:52 2002
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:11:52 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Test
In-Reply-To: <3C9D6BEF.DCE6AF95@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <B8C62418.383AC%grichter@asapnet.net>

test



From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Tue Mar 26 20:29:31 2002
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:29:31 -0700
Subject: Part #? (ss PCB Layout)?  [sdiy] noise source crap out
Message-ID: <B8C61A2A.357B%cynthia.webster@gte.net>

I'm making up a couple of PC boards today and have some spare real estate on
the copper clad board... I thought "hey, there's that neat little noise
circuit that I downloaded the other day from the ASM-1 site"

Then I thought, do I really want to wait to do a PCB layout for it, or just
waste the extra area of copper?

I looked at the ASM site today and saw the close-up picture of the Noise
generator... Looks like a double-sided PCB, (I'm doing single side only)

So then I thought I'd ask if anyone has a single-sided PCB layout for just
that ASM-1 Noise Generator circuit??
(even a funky one from the "testing days")?

It appeals to me - because of the "third" noise output...
We all have White and Pink, but fewer have Red (or is it Blue, noise?)  Low
frequency CV type noise) I'd like some o' that!

order: (1) Quart of Red Noise - please...

Now I see "Oh Great! That's the circuit that just fried on the DIY list!"

I'd still like to whip one up, (Did you find a "better" transistor, or just
use the same one.  BTW the transistor is NOT specified in the .pdf Schematic
that I have - What to use)?   Hmmm....
 


on 3/26/02 10:42 AM, Magus Ship at elmystico at earthlink.net wrote:

> Thanks everyone for the advice on this, I swapped out the transistor for a
> new one and it sounds great! Better than before.
> ----------
>> From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Magus Ship <elmystico at earthlink.net>, synth <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] noise source crap out
>> Date: Sat, Mar 23, 2002, 12:50 PM
>> 
> 
>> Yo,
>> 
>> I don't think the caps are the problem. Here is how my
>> coffee-addled brain would approach it:
>> 
>> Step 1: Check power supplies on the opamps
>> Step 2: Ohm out the ground connections
>> Step 3: Inspect the board for cold joints etc.
>> Step 4: Flex board and listen for output changes
>> --> if you hear changes, re-solder all joints
>> Step 5: If you have a scope, look at outputs of amps.
>> Look for distortion, heavy dc biases, clipping, etc.
>> Step 6: If the opamps are socketed, swap opamps one at
>> a time.
>> Step 7: Swap the transistor
>> 
>> Questions, queries, posers:
>> 
>> All outputs affected? Or just one?
>> Varies after turn-on? Or constant?
>> 
>> Hope that helps.
>> 
>> --TR
>> 
>> *******************************
>> When in doubt, gulp a Hexuccino
>> *******************************
>> 
>> --- Magus Ship <elmystico at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> "All of a sudden" my homebuilt noise source, which
>>> is based on the
>>> Electronotes and ASM-1 designs has crapped out.
>>> What used to be a rich hiss
>>> has become a futzy stream of what sounds like badly
>>> band pass filtered pink
>>> noise.  Around this time the ground connection at my
>>> power supply became
>>> desoldered (unrelated? related?).  My question is
>>> whether the transistor or
>>> the filter caps to get pink and Random Low Frequency
>>> outputs would be the
>>> problem.  Is it possible that a transistor that
>>> provides good noise can
>>> change or crap out over time?  Or is it more likely
>>> that a cap or a bad
>>> connection in the filters would produce this effect?
>>> thanks as always.
>>> Gavin 
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
>> http://movies.yahoo.com/



From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Tue Mar 26 20:34:00 2002
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:34:00 -0700
Subject: UEG to Modcan    Re: [sdiy] Dual Concentric Pots? (20k Linear)
Message-ID: <B8C61B38.357D%cynthia.webster@gte.net>

Thanks Tony!

Thanks to you I found Tocos.com to be a good start for pots & Trimpots...
However I think that my kind of small quantities will just make them laugh!


I'm interested in converting a couple of Encore Universal Event Generators
over to the Modcan panel format, (the UEG uses all 20K Linear Taper Pots)
to cut down on panel real estate.  This way I can fit a UEG onto a standard
double width Modcan modular panel.

http://www.modcan.com

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_ueg1.html


I made an official inquiry with both Tocos, and a couple of their local
distributors... 

But I'm still hoping to find dual-concentric linear taper pots like 20K or
10K (Yikes! Because specially ordering them might cost more than the modules
themselves)?  

If anyone else is interested, maybe we could combine quantities for better
price?  I could see doubling the number of channels on a Sequencer on the
same panel, in the same amount of space (for example)...

Cynthia




I made an official inquiry with both them and a couple of local distributors
on 3/26/02 11:11 AM, Tony Clark at clark at andrews.edu wrote:

>> Ideally I'd like to fine either Dual 10K or 20K Linear tapered Pots
>> (that can of course be controlled separately)  actually anything in the 5K
>> to 50k range might work.
>> 
>> I went to the Alan-Bradly, Bourns, and Nobel websites - and was really
>> disappointed...
> 
> Here's a possibility:
> 
> http://www.tocos.com/panelcon/panel_pdf/ra30yd.pdf
> 
> I just went to google and typed in "ganged pots", but you may
> find more results using "concentric potentiometers".
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Tony
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
> ---



From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Tue Mar 26 20:52:09 2002
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:52:09 -0700
Subject: Doh!   Re: [sdiy] Dual Concentric Hemispheres?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326145306.10231I-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <B8C61F79.3586%cynthia.webster@gte.net>

Yes Tony!

(What was I thinking)?

>> I'm interested in converting a couple of Encore Universal Event Generators
>> over to the Modcan panel format, (the UEG uses all 20K Linear Taper Pots)
>> to cut down on panel real estate.  This way I can fit a UEG onto a standard
>> double width Modcan modular panel.
> 
> Actually, I don't see why you would need to use dual concentric pots
> if all you want to do is fit the UEG into a Modcan format!  If you look
> at the Modcan sequencer, it actually has more pots and more
> jacks/switches, than the UEG!

I just looked again at the Modcan Sequencer and you're absolutely right!

(There are other projects that I still might consider using Concentric pots
for, but I think it's really funny how carried away with this I got)!

With the 17A Sequencer,
Bruce broke his (unspoken) design rule of **everything** on one-inch centers
Now if he can do it - so shall I      Yippee!  LOL!

I guess to a large degree I design my front panels first, and only  *then*
figure-out what's needed inside to make it work... (Somebody just said that
that's how Don Buchla always does it - so I guess that I'm in good company)?

In other words...  
(I must be nuts)?

well, at least I'm getting an education in concentric pots today

for all the work and expense you just saved me -
THANK YOU TONY!

Cyn






>It's really a matter of choosing the right _size_ pot.
> I would highly recommend you spec out a 1/2" bodied pot similar to
> what I use:
> 
> http://www.vishay.com/document/57054/57054.pdf
> 
> Or ask Bruce and see which pot he uses.
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> Tony



From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Mar 26 20:53:30 2002
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:53:30 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Dual Concentric Pots? (20k Linear) Anyone have a good
	source?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326130419.10231G@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <B8C62DDA.383B4%grichter@asapnet.net>

The least expensive new concentrics I have found are in the range of $10
each in 100 piece quantities. Allen Bradley Modpots as used in the Aries 300
sequencer are now $20 each a 100 pieces ($10 per section).

For DIY your best bet is to look for a surplus source, you may find them for
$2 or so, but in limited quantities.

If that is not enough sticker shock, go price new concentric knobs....

> From: Tony Clark <clark at andrews.edu>
> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:11:36 -0500 (EST)
> To: Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Dual Concentric Pots? (20k Linear) Anyone have a good
> source?
> 
> concentric potentiometers



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 23:04:38 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:04:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Midi project update
Message-ID: <20020326220438.17201.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>

(can I have a drumroll please?)

IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, its putting out CVs when keys are pressed!!!

Yay!!!!!!!

I think I'll celebrate by bathing. Talk about staying
focused  :-)

This has been a lesson for me. This the first time
I've tried to write assembly code with no debugger.
Just like the early pioneers, I would cut code, watch
it fail, then stare at listings until I found the bug.
I did eventually hook up 3 leds that I could use as
indicators. This helped, but a debugger is mandatory
from now on.

--TR

***********************************************
With an accurate map and a stopwatch, you could
fly an aeroplane through the Alps blindfolded.
Or was it 'fly into the Alps blindfolded'...
***********************************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Tue Mar 26 23:16:42 2002
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:16:42 -0700
Subject: Push_Me-Pull_U      Re: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
Message-ID: <B8C64159.35B6%cynthia.webster@gte.net>

When I was a child, my Mother would take me to the Pediatrician who had in
the waiting room - a huge board full of knobs and switches and buttons...

I just loved it!  I could have played with that thingie for DAYS!

The more buttons and push/pull tweeking - the better!

(Ain't it Funny how some things never change)?

:)

Cynthia



on 3/26/02 3:59 PM, Tony Clark at clark at andrews.edu wrote:

>> mouser has some puch-pull pots. part number is 313-1601-10k it's a 16mm
>> linear pot with a DPDT switch.
> 
> Hmm, sure enough!  Never paid that much attention to them other than
> that those had a switch built into them.  Only in the drawing does it
> have (p/p) to indicate push/pull.
> Good spot there, Mark!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tony



From urekar.m at EUnet.yu  Tue Mar 26 23:33:26 2002
From: urekar.m at EUnet.yu (>>>marjan<<<)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:33:26 +0100
Subject: Part #? (ss PCB Layout)?  [sdiy] noise source crap out
References: <B8C61A2A.357B%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3CA0F736.6B08D1B0@eunet.yu>



> It appeals to me - because of the "third" noise output...
> We all have White and Pink, but fewer have Red (or is it Blue, noise?)  Low
> frequency CV type noise) I'd like some o' that!
> 


it's just a matter of proper filtering...
and no it's not _that_ spectacular... nor halle berry
is but she got the oscar... 8->

you might try ems vcs3 noise cct, it has continious control
over noise color
or (if somebody scans the schem) arp2600 noise with the same
option
the core is the same, just add filters to your taste
I think asm-1 3rd noise out is kinda slow s/h



> order: (1) Quart of Red Noise - please...
> 
> Now I see "Oh Great! That's the circuit that just fried on the DIY list!"
> 
> I'd still like to whip one up, (Did you find a "better" transistor, or just
> use the same one.  BTW the transistor is NOT specified in the .pdf Schematic
> that I have - What to use)?   Hmmm....

you have to choose best 'noisy' tranny :)
solder transistor socket and chnge all trannies you have at hand
give it listen test, if it's loud enough and sound, um well noisy
it's OK (we like good noise here, for a change ;)
try brx variety if you have them at hand
I prefer old bc107 and all those unmarked ones desoldered from
old&crappy radios...

-- 



marjan


me    : Marjan Urekar
e-mail: urekar.m at eunet.yu
s-diy : http://surf.to/marjansystems
music : http://go.to/forcemajeure




From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Mar 26 23:38:20 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:38:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326163031.10231K-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <00c201c1d51b$08aeef00$5c72b9d9@debitel.net>

>    Now I've got a question for you...why not use the last stage of the
> CD4520 and have 5 octave out instead of 4?   Sure it adds a few more
> parts, but it'd make it compatible with modern keyboards.  That's one of
> the gripes I have when trying to control my MIDI'd PS-3100.

I will do this, but only for *one* VCO per board. I'm not aiming at 61
notes,
but 49 notes (most 4-octave keyboards) would be nice. On the pcb, there
is just space for one more output stage, not for 6 of them anyway.

I might spread the VCF / VCA / ADSR circuits on 10 * 5 cards rather than
12 * 4 cards then.

JH.








From a0284520 at addcom.de  Tue Mar 26 23:38:31 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:38:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326122447.10231E-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA0F867.8010401@addcom.de>

mouser has some puch-pull pots. part number is 313-1601-10k it's a 16mm 
linear pot with a DPDT switch.

keep on rockin and rollin.

mark

Tony Clark wrote:

>>Just in case I would really go for patch storage (gladly, I don't have
>>to make that decision now; it can be added later) -
>>Dou you know a source for 10k lin pull-pots ?
>>
>
>   Unfortunately, no.  Specialty pots and switches are some of the 
>hardest things to track down.  :(  Good luck to you in finding them!
>   And keep us posted on your progress!  ;)
>




From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Mar 26 23:59:00 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:59:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
In-Reply-To: <3CA0F867.8010401@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326175728.10231M-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> mouser has some puch-pull pots. part number is 313-1601-10k it's a 16mm 
> linear pot with a DPDT switch.

   Hmm, sure enough!  Never paid that much attention to them other than 
that those had a switch built into them.  Only in the drawing does it 
have (p/p) to indicate push/pull.
   Good spot there, Mark!

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From jhaible at debitel.net  Wed Mar 27 00:29:08 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:29:08 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Polykorg project
Message-ID: <00e801c1d51e$1a769a00$5c72b9d9@debitel.net>

Here are preliminary schematics of the oscillator bank
(one of 12 identical circuits shown):

http://www.oldcrows.net/~jhaible/polykorg/jh_new_polykorg_vcos.pdf

JH.

==============================================
"When you hear [...] a bullet whistling past your ear, a transistor
radio knocked into a swimming pool, [...] analyse it in your head
and figure out how to synthesize it."
                                           (from the Korg PS-3200 user
manual)




From jhaible at debitel.net  Wed Mar 27 00:50:13 2002
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:50:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326163031.10231K-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu> <00c201c1d51b$08aeef00$5c72b9d9@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <011c01c1d520$ff2a0c20$5c72b9d9@debitel.net>

Sorry, mixed up personal reply to Tony and reply to the list.
Hope it's ok, though.

JH.


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: jhaible <jhaible at debitel.net>
An: Tony Clark <clark at andrews.edu>
Cc: diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. M?rz 2002 23:38
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb


> >    Now I've got a question for you...why not use the last stage of the
> > CD4520 and have 5 octave out instead of 4?   Sure it adds a few more
> > parts, but it'd make it compatible with modern keyboards.  That's one of
> > the gripes I have when trying to control my MIDI'd PS-3100.
>
> I will do this, but only for *one* VCO per board. I'm not aiming at 61
> notes,
> but 49 notes (most 4-octave keyboards) would be nice. On the pcb, there
> is just space for one more output stage, not for 6 of them anyway.
>
> I might spread the VCF / VCA / ADSR circuits on 10 * 5 cards rather than
> 12 * 4 cards then.
>
> JH.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




From mclilith at ezwv.com  Wed Mar 27 01:42:38 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:42:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Dual Concentric Pots? (20k Linear) Anyone have a
  goodsource?
In-Reply-To: <B8C62DDA.383B4%grichter@asapnet.net>
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326130419.10231G@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020326193211.00958920@mail.ezwv.com>

At 02:53 PM 3/26/02 , Grant Richter wrote:

>If that is not enough sticker shock, go price new concentric knobs....

If you only needed a few, would it be cheaper to buy concentric pots or knobs
as replacement parts for some existing product? In other words, buy from a
repair center, instead of from the component manufacturer or distributor.

I know that repair parts often have a higher price tag, but it still might be
more practical than meeting some distributor's or manufacturer's minimum
quantity requirements. Now all you have to do is find a product with suitable
pots and knobs.  :)


Later,
Glen



From noise at avaya.com  Wed Mar 27 01:54:26 2002
From: noise at avaya.com (Brousseau, Paul E (Paul))
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:54:26 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
Message-ID: <9DA243B48CC8E942B5EA000080B54B7A238E9E@ca0001avexu1.global.avaya.com>

Yet another dumb question (not that the first was dumb-- I had no idea!)...  If there aren't any thru-holes, then how does one get the component to stay in place while soldering?

--PBr

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Gatrall [mailto:gatrall at pacbell.net]
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 9:57 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures


>Allow me to ask (another) dumb question:  How does one solder a surface
>mount component w/o a vapor-phase/solder-paste set-up?

Dumb answer: with solder and a soldering iron.

Longer answer: I have soldered far too many PCBs with SMT parts 
including 0604s and 100pin SQFPs (0.5mm pitch).  The tricks are to 
use really fine solder and a very fine soldering iron, and often a 
lot of flux.  0805s and bigger are actually easier and quicker to 
deal with than through-hole components.  You don't have to bend or 
trim the leads, and you never have to learn the resistor color code.


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Mar 27 03:36:37 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:36:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
References: <9DA243B48CC8E942B5EA000080B54B7A238E9E@ca0001avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <3CA13034.C1121EC3@prodigy.net>

"Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)" wrote:

> Yet another dumb question (not that the first was dumb-- I had no idea!)...  If there aren't any thru-holes, then how does one get the component to stay in place while soldering?
>

Easy... Jedi mind power.

The opposite of where Darth Vader throws the boxes at Luke Skywalker,
duing the light-saber duel....  In that case... the boxes did not want to move...

In the SMT case... the parts do not want to stay still....     :^P

(on the solder side of commercial boards... they use a tiny drop of glue. I just
hold them down with a tiny object - maybe the dull edge of the x-acto knife...
while I solder one side. Then I solder the other side...)

H^) harry  (Lord of 'Vader and Associates')



From elmystico at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 04:27:23 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Magus Ship)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:27:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "cute" project
Message-ID: <E16q49V-0006gH-00@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I just built my girlfriend a little light controlled synth based on a wacky
idea I had.  I used 4 simple square/triangle oscillators with cadmium
sulfide cells in addition to the pot that controls the current going to the
oscillator cap.  Each of these oscillators has an LED at its out put as well
as the audio output.  The audio outputs are mixed through a summing node and
then invertered (through an inverter).  The LED's are mounted in a square on
the front panel.  The cadmium sulfide cells are mounted in a larger square
outside the LED's so that the light from the LED (output of one oscillator)
is controlling the frequency of the next oscillator, which is controlling
the next, which is controlling the first one.  It can sit and play itself
for hours...  Especially interesting is when the 4 are set to just below
audio frequency when the LED's are off, then when they turn on they push
each other up into audio and set off a chain reaction.  Anyway, it seemed
like this idea could really be expanded upon for lots of interesting
effects!! 


From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Mar 27 05:29:33 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:29:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] components, smd and pcb
In-Reply-To: <011c01c1d520$ff2a0c20$5c72b9d9@debitel.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326232819.6016A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Sorry, mixed up personal reply to Tony and reply to the list.
> Hope it's ok, though.

   No problem here.  :)

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Mar 27 05:45:30 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:45:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
In-Reply-To: <9DA243B48CC8E942B5EA000080B54B7A238E9E@ca0001avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326232945.6016B-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Yet another dumb question (not that the first was dumb-- I had no 
> idea!)...  If there aren't any thru-holes, then how does one get the 
> component to stay in place while soldering?

   Well in a traditional manufacturing environment the first process is 
to "print" solder paste onto a PCB using a laser cut stencil.  This 
deposits a small "brick" of paste onto each pad where an SMT part goes.  
   The board then moves on to the "pick-and-place" assembler machine 
where the parts are then placed onto the board.  The still soft solder 
paste acts as a sort of "glue" to keep the part in place until the board 
is sent into the reflow oven.
   During reflow, an interesting thing occurs.  The paste turns into a 
liquid (okay we knew it would do that!) and since all liquids have 
surface tension (and the part is now floating on the liquid), the tension 
has the ability to "pull" the part into alignment and cause it to be 
correctly centered over the pads!
   Now often times the above doesn't occur for any number of reasons, 
such as dry paste, too heavy a part (ICs are fairly immune to this 
phenomenon), etc., etc.  Sometimes you'll get a part that "tombstones" 
(ie it's sticking straight up off the board with only one side soldered.  
It happens when one pad doesn't bond well with the part during assembly.

   In super dense boards where components are placed on both sides of the 
circuit board, the SMT parts that are designated to be placed on the 
"bottom" of the board are put on first, but not with paste.  As Harry 
said, a dot of glue is placed under the part and the board is sent 
through the reflow oven to cure the glue.  Once that is done, then the 
top side of the PCB is assembled as described above.
   Once the board comes out of the reflow oven for the second time, the 
top side of the board is now finished, but the bottom still needs to be 
soldered.  The boar is then sent through a wave soldering machine where 
all of the parts on the bottom side are submerged in a bath of liquid 
solder and the board comes out finished.

   Hope that sheds some light onto SMT production!

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Mar 27 05:48:34 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:48:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] More SMT project pictures
In-Reply-To: <3CA13034.C1121EC3@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326234536.6016C-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Easy... Jedi mind power.

   Shhh!  Here I go writing a wonderfully technical response and you are 
exposing the operator behind the curtain!

> H^) harry  (Lord of 'Vader and Associates')

   BTW, you are missing a wonderful BBD discussion on Analog Heaven!  
There is all this talk of how BBD's don't alias like digital systems and 
all sorts of other hooha.  Sounds like they need a good ole round of 
Harry!  ;)

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From musetrap at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 08:31:31 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:31:31 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] PAIA 9700
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020326232945.6016B-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA17553.9243B363@earthlink.net>

Hi Folks,
    I've just finished reading everything in the archives on the 9700.  The
most recent comments were from 2001 and many  people were still building and
unable to give a complete assessment.  Since I'm still collating info on
which affordable modular to start with--ASM1, 9700, etc -- could I impose on
anyone who's had a 9700 up-and-running for a while to give some informed
opinions?  What do you like about it, hate about it, wish it did but it
doesn't do?  Thanks!

Regards,
Joe Kramer



From nikro at itn.liu.se  Wed Mar 27 09:49:11 2002
From: nikro at itn.liu.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22R=F6nnberg=2C_Niklas=22?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:49:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Squarewave
Message-ID: <B994FE45A9BD934DBACD8EC8197B041A05EFA2@merlin.epost.itn.liu.se>

Dear DIY'ers,

It's been a while since my voice was heard here... But I've been
reading, reading and reading and trying to learn.
Anyway I have a question regarding a simple square wave generator:
http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/diy/square.gif

I want to control the frequency and I guess that one way to do this is
to put a pot in series with the resistor. But actually I would like to
control it with a control voltage...

I made a phaser (ETI447) some weeks ago:
http://www.itn.liu.se/~nikro/diy/phaser/

And it uses a 4049 as 6 variable resistors, with both pin 1 (VDD) and 8
(VSS) connected to ground (or VREF). A triangle wave is connected to the
inputs and the outputs go to the +in on the opamps. In series there is a
resistor from +in to VREF. This makes the resistance between +in and
ground (or VREF) varies between 100K and some few K.

Is it possible to use this solution to control the frequency of the
square wave? It looks hard to me, but maybe you can see the light... :-)

Best regards

Niklas


From np at inverse-entertainment.de  Wed Mar 27 11:46:23 2002
From: np at inverse-entertainment.de (Nils Pipenbrinck)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:46:23 +0100
Subject: AW: Part #? (ss PCB Layout)?  [sdiy] noise source crap out
In-Reply-To: <B8C61A2A.357B%cynthia.webster@gte.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBJMKIGLMKFFANIMJBKEPBCLAA.np@inverse-entertainment.de>

Hi Cynthia, (hello list)

> So then I thought I'd ask if anyone has a single-sided PCB layout for just
> that ASM-1 Noise Generator circuit??
> (even a funky one from the "testing days")?

I have one.. Single sided. Small size, and thick on the traces. Ideal for
beginners. (was one of the first first pcb's I designed since years).
Problem is, that I have it at home, and it's hidden somewhere on my old
harddisk. It might take a day or two until I find the time to email it.

Just drop me an email if you still want a pcb design.

> I'd still like to whip one up, (Did you find a "better" transistor, or
just
> use the same one.  BTW the transistor is NOT specified in the  .pdf
Schematic
> that I have - What to use)?   Hmmm....

I used an "experienced" BC317 tranny which I desoldered from old equipment.
I was short on 2N3904, and the BC317 was the first one I found in my
junk-box. It did a good job there..

Later I tried some other transistors. Mostly new ones, but I changed back to
the BC317. Maybe it's just me, but I found old and used transtors to be the
best guys for this job.

  Nils



From a0284520 at addcom.de  Wed Mar 27 14:30:08 2002
From: a0284520 at addcom.de (mark verbos)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:30:08 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My SMT projects
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020325131527.29626A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA1C960.7080807@addcom.de>

Why are there so many electrolytics on those boards? Is that because you 
have so many bypasses?

I've been staring at this thing wondering that.

mark

Tony Clark wrote:

>   Since the discussion of surface mount technology cropped up, I thought 
>I would share what I've been doing with it.  My idea was to make compact 
>modules that had every feature I could think of built right in.  Somewhat 
>inspired by Grant's fabulous work with the Wiard modules:  Lots of 
>functionality in a small package.
>   The first module, M101A is a classic VCO module, built around a 
>modified ASM-1 core.
>  
>http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m101a_01.jpg
>
>   The VCO has 9 waveform outputs:  Sine, Triangle, Tangent, Sawtooth, 
>Square, Pulse, double frequency (2x) Triangle, 2x Saw, 2x Square, and 2x 
>Pulse.
>   I ended up with this many different waveforms due in part to the 
>waveshaper circuitry I used to get the sine waveform.  I find it 
>different since it isn't necessary anymore to use two VCO's tuned one 
>octave apart!
>
>http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m101a_02.jpg
>http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m101a_03.jpg
>
>   These images show a mostly completed PCB for the VCO.  I had run out 
>of electrolytics at the time, so the bottom 2/3rds wasn't finished at the 
>time of the photograph.  The top 1/3 of the PCB contains the VCO core, 
>the other circuitry are the waveshapers.
>   As this was the first of these modules, I did some things differently 
>than I do them now.  I put all of the resistors on the bottom side of the 
>board.  If I were to do it now, I would put as much as I could on one 
>side and only resort to putting components on the bottom side if space 
>became an issue.
>   PCB statistics:  249 components, 588 connections
>
>   The second module I did was a VCA board:
>
>http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m201a_01.jpg
>http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m201b_01.jpg
>
>   I used one PCB to make two distinct modules.  M201A is a quad VCA 
>while M201B is a dual VCA with main outputs and soft-start circuitry to 
>eliminating thumping on power-on.
>
>http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m201a_02.jpg
>http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/~clark/diy/images/m201b_02.jpg
>
>   In the above PCB pics, you can see that M101A uses the top-half of the 
>PCB, while the lower-half is used for M101B.  On this board I was able to 
>put all of the components on one side.
>   PCB statistics: 307 components, 588 connections
>
>   I have one more module, M301, which is a variation on the Moog ladder 
>filter (variable pole) plus an onboard ring modulator.  I don't have any 
>pictures of it up currently, but I may be able to add it in the next day 
>or two.  It is the most complex board I have done to date with over 318 
>parts and 685 connections!  For that board I did have to utilize the 
>backside to put a few parts, but I limited it to the large 1210/1206 
>resistors.
>
>   All of the PCB's use 10mil traces with 10mil separation.  I think the 
>latest board uses 8mil traces with 10mil separation.  I'm really pushing 
>the limits of the PCB house that I get my boards from.  They guarantee 
>8mil/8mil, and although their boards have been great, I did have a 
>bridge that occurred on one board.
>   Building boards this complex hasn't been without it's problems.  All 
>of the boards have had at least a couple of errors (mainly due to 
>schematic entry snafus), so I learn something new each time.
>
>   Some other things of interest:  The boards are all completely CV or 
>GATE controlled.  That made it more of a challenge, but more rewarding as 
>literally everything can be modulated!
>   The connectors are VME 96-pin and are great!  I like the fact that 
>since the PCB isn't physically wired to the front panel, I can unplug the 
>PCB and put in another one (if one should ever fail) without any hassle.
>   The front panels are custom punched 1/8" anodizing grade aluminum with 
>engraved legending.  The letters are hand-painted and then the whole 
>panel is finished with a clear matte lacquer.  
>   My first panels were hand lettered and finished with a hard 
>polyurethane.  But it was extremely time consuming and frustrating.  In 
>the end that kept me from making any more modules until I had found an 
>adequate solution to my panel making problem!  I'm pretty happy now 
>about the way they look although the lacquer is a bit fragile.  I need a 
>good alternative that's more durable.  If anyone has a suggestion, let 
>me know!
>
>   Well that's about it for now! BTW, anyone who would like to see my 
>modules in person should attend the AHMW show on April 6th.  I plan to 
>bring them along with my Modcan and Fenix (plus something special...)  
>   Details can be found here:
>
>   http://www.ph.k12.in.us/~drew/ahmw2002.html
>
>   Cheers,
>
>   Tony
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
>   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
>     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001
>
>
>
>
>




From marguson at telia.com  Wed Mar 27 16:39:12 2002
From: marguson at telia.com (Martin Gustafsson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:39:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Signal relays
Message-ID: <005901c1d5a5$a878e560$63a6edc2@lynx>

I am looking for a relay (preferably DPDT) that's suitable for switching weak signals. It's for an audio measurement circuit with levels around 0.3Vp-p, and I'd prefer not to use the 4066, with bias and other problems. Has anyone looked into this and would be willing to share some tips?

Best regards
Martin Gustafsson



From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Mar 27 16:50:27 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:50:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] My SMT projects
In-Reply-To: <3CA1C960.7080807@addcom.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020327092753.16869A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> Why are there so many electrolytics on those boards? Is that because you 
> have so many bypasses?

   Yes, I bypass both the positive and negative supply with a 22 ohm 
resistor and a 47uF electrolytic.  It's something I have gotten in the 
habit of doing since I had to design stable high-gain circuitry for use 
with switching computer power supplies.  Normally I would use 100uF 
instead, but I would have had to move to the next size up SMT packaging, 
which takes up too much real estate.  47uF is the largest value in a type 
D package at 35 Volts.
   As you might see, I have a tendency to over-engineer things.  :)

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001




From skuehnl at yahoo.de  Wed Mar 27 18:14:54 2002
From: skuehnl at yahoo.de (=?iso-8859-1?q?Sebastian=20Kuehnl?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:14:54 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 700 series schematics
Message-ID: <20020327171454.6528.qmail@web20005.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello all,

Since there have been quite a few schematics of Buchla modules
circulating around this list, I would like to know if anyone has
documents about the digital systems, especially the 700 series. Don't
point me to the Audities Foundation please, it's hopeless.

I haven't been a subscriber since October 2001 so please excuse me if
this topic may have been discussed recently. Any interesting threads
concerning Buchla related DIY projects since then?

Furthermore I'm looking for information on tweaking video ICs. I
thought the query might be well directed here but anyway it's off
topic, so if you can help with stuff like that please write to me off
the list for details.

Regards,

Sebastian Kuehnl

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com


From blacet at blacet.com  Wed Mar 27 18:21:11 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:21:11 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Signal relays
References: <005901c1d5a5$a878e560$63a6edc2@lynx>
Message-ID: <3CA1FF86.D86D4F5E@blacet.com>

There are much better analog switches around these days. You need to
determine the maximum error that you can live with and perhaps look at
some Maxim parts.

Relays can be found in DIP size packages with relatively low current
consumption, but the analog switch uses almost no current for
switching....

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From jorandal at vt.edu  Wed Mar 27 18:38:49 2002
From: jorandal at vt.edu (Josh Randall)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:38:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] PAIA 9700
In-Reply-To: <3CA17553.9243B363@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203271230480.16682-100000@dragon.ee.vt.edu>

I built just the MIDI>CV converter from Paia and it was very easy so I am
assuming the rest of the 9700 series is too.  I am currently working on
the ASM1 and am finding it to be challenging.  There are a lot of design
desisions that go into it since it dosn't specify what controlls to use,
what values of pots to use, doesn't come with all the parts(so you have to
hunt them down), dosn't come with an enclosure, and dosn't come with a
front panel.  These issues may not be problems for you if you have more
experience then I do or if you don't mind spending LOTS of time
researching and thinking about it.  All of these combined make me think
the 9700 is better for a first effort( not to mention I'm having
difficulty getting some of my ASM1 to work and don't have a manufacturer
that I can send it off to)

Good luck to you!

Sincerly,

Josh Randall

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Joe Kramer wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>     I've just finished reading everything in the archives on the 9700.  The
> most recent comments were from 2001 and many  people were still building and
> unable to give a complete assessment.  Since I'm still collating info on
> which affordable modular to start with--ASM1, 9700, etc -- could I impose on
> anyone who's had a 9700 up-and-running for a while to give some informed
> opinions?  What do you like about it, hate about it, wish it did but it
> doesn't do?  Thanks!
>
> Regards,
> Joe Kramer
>
>



From jorandal at vt.edu  Wed Mar 27 18:43:57 2002
From: jorandal at vt.edu (Josh Randall)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:43:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] ballance and volume
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203271239400.16682-100000@dragon.ee.vt.edu>

I am wanting to add ballance and volume controls to my ASM1.  Basically
what I want is to have left and right bannana jacks as inputs.  Then I
want these to go through the ballance and volume controlls and then out to
2 line out 1/4 inch jacks(one for left and one for right) and a stereo
headphone jack.

Is it possible to do this with resister ladders and still get the correct
levels and impedences or do I need to do something else?

Please keep my beginnerness in mind!

Thanks,

Josh Randall



From musetrap at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 27 21:32:33 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:32:33 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] PAIA 9700
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203271230480.16682-100000@dragon.ee.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA22C61.C97DA972@earthlink.net>



Josh Randall wrote:

> . . .  There are a lot of design desisions that go into it since it dosn't
> specify what controlls to use,
> what values of pots to use, doesn't come with all the parts(so you have to
> hunt them down), dosn't come with an enclosure, and dosn't come with a
> front panel.  These issues may not be problems for you if you have more
> experience then I do or if you don't mind spending LOTS of time
> researching and thinking about it. . . .

Dear Josh,
    Thanks for your reply.  The forethought, decision, and building aren't really
the issue for me.  It's more a question of time: at this point I have nothing to
make sounds with, and would like to be tweaking as we speak.  I'm trying to find
the fastest way to get there that's affordable, DIY, and fairly complex
soundwise.  The ASM1 seems like a great second or third synth project.  I guess I
just wish I had my Bullet SE-01!  Thanks again.

Regards,
Joe Kramer




From t.hogers at home.nl  Wed Mar 27 21:45:30 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:45:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] ballance and volume
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203271239400.16682-100000@dragon.ee.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <003d01c1d5d0$55f1ac20$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Time to surf to http://www.national.com/
and check out the data sheet for the LM1036 (35 also?)
A easy to setup DC (read VC) volume and balance control.
And National toss in VC treble & bass control for free <sound of wild
cheering crowd>
Don't have to go for external CV right away, just start with the standard
application.

There are plenty examples with this IC online.
Makes a good balanced (ring) modulator too, and (bad) rotary speaker
simulation, and auto pan, and wave shaper/distortion, and ...
Really this thing belongs in Amazing discoveries.

Theo



From: Josh Randall <jorandal at vt.edu>

> I am wanting to add ballance and volume controls to my ASM1.  Basically
> what I want is to have left and right bannana jacks as inputs.  Then I
> want these to go through the ballance and volume controlls and then out to
> 2 line out 1/4 inch jacks(one for left and one for right) and a stereo
> headphone jack.
>
> Is it possible to do this with resister ladders and still get the correct
> levels and impedences or do I need to do something else?
>
> Please keep my beginnerness in mind!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh Randall
>



From xmurz at gmx.de  Wed Mar 27 22:32:31 2002
From: xmurz at gmx.de (xmurz at gmx.de)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:32:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] LFO
Message-ID: <SO5A1XF0IHHCXWRL3FDB6C8GBC94Z.3ca23a6f@xmass>

Hello!
I got a few questions...
I got a +/- 12 Volt linear PSU today, which is really
stable.

I got out my breadboard and tried the Modulus LFO (of issue 8)
with that one. However, even after 4 hours it wouldn't oscillate.
(with a TL082)
When I touch pin 2 of the first opamp, i get  a big pulse on my osci.
hmmm.. somhow the feedback loop doesn't have anough power, I suppose.

Then i ripped all the stuff off the breadboard.

Then I had a go at the ASM-1 LFO. Same thing, doesn't oscillate.

So is this because of the +-12V, of the breadboard (capacitance) or
am I hitting hy head with a wall=?

ANY help/suggestion appreaciated.

Regards,
   Hans







From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Mar 27 23:52:19 2002
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (Trevor Page)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:52:19 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles
Message-ID: <003801c1d5e2$0d0a7980$4c3d87d9@tb303>

Hi all,

I'm currently working on a front panel design [for my TR909 clone project]
using Frontplatten Designer 2. I've encountered a problem regaring importing
HP-GL files, and since a good few people on the list also go to Schaeffer
for their panels, I'm wondering if someone here can help me in any way.

Basically I'm attempting to have a small picture engraved onto the panel. I
am drawing the image first as a bitmap (.bmp), and then converting this to
HP-GL vector format using KVEC. (I know that bitmap to vector conversion
isn't the most ideal thing in the world, but the results as viewed in
ViewCompanion are pretty good IMHO). So I have my hp-gl file. The problem is
that when I import this file into Frontplatten, it always shows a solid
border around the image. It's definately not there just to mark the boundary
of the image - when printing out the panel design, the border is still
there. I checked the hp-gl file using ViewCompanion again and that border
doesn't appear to be in the original file. The image looks fine; it's just
this annoying border that appears to be part of the image and shouldn't be
there. Frontplatten appears to be adding it.

So I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered something similar? I'd
probably approach Schaeffer about this anyway, but thought I'd try here
first. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Secondly, has anyone else attempted to get little vectored images etc. onto
Schaeffer panels? Were the results anything to shout about?

Kind regards,

Trevor.





From elmystico at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 00:01:15 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Magus Ship)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:01:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: 'cute project'
Message-ID: <E16qMTg-0007LL-00@pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

I sent out schematics to those who were interested in this off list. 
they're scaled down and just show the set up for two oscillators but it
should be fairly to extrapolate how to add more and expand... If anyone
wants me to post this schematic on list i will, 
thanks
Gavin
----------
From: "Lincoln Fong" <Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "Magus Ship" <elmystico at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 'cute project'
Date: Wed, Mar 27, 2002, 5:14 PM


Dear Magus, 

 

I like the sound of your idea. I am always trying to think of electronic
toys and games that will inspire my 2 year old daughter. Any chance of a
photo and a schematic? Or just a better description. It?s a bit hard to
visualise. I probably wouldn?t attempt it without a schematic because I
don?t have the time to spend working it out. By the way I don?t work for
Mattel either :> 

 

Anyway, 

 

All the best. 

 

Lincoln Fong 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020327/c87e3e1e/attachment.htm>

From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Thu Mar 28 00:53:13 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:53:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles
References: <003801c1d5e2$0d0a7980$4c3d87d9@tb303>
Message-ID: <001c01c1d5ea$8f10f000$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>

Well, your conversion method might be a bit of issue.

But, now, what I do is I use the "find edge" feature in Photoshop,
then tell kvec to put a line down the middle of the bitmap line.

Once the edges are found, its very easy for KVEC to deal with, but
KVEC has a very hard-to-tune edge find feature.

Also, too, KVEC is very bad about putting multiple parallel lines
instead of only one.


Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor Page" <trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 5:52 PM
Subject: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles


> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently working on a front panel design [for my TR909 clone
project]
> using Frontplatten Designer 2. I've encountered a problem regaring
importing
> HP-GL files, and since a good few people on the list also go to
Schaeffer
> for their panels, I'm wondering if someone here can help me in any
way.
>
> Basically I'm attempting to have a small picture engraved onto the
panel. I
> am drawing the image first as a bitmap (.bmp), and then converting
this to
> HP-GL vector format using KVEC. (I know that bitmap to vector
conversion
> isn't the most ideal thing in the world, but the results as viewed
in
> ViewCompanion are pretty good IMHO). So I have my hp-gl file. The
problem is
> that when I import this file into Frontplatten, it always shows a
solid
> border around the image. It's definately not there just to mark the
boundary
> of the image - when printing out the panel design, the border is
still
> there. I checked the hp-gl file using ViewCompanion again and that
border
> doesn't appear to be in the original file. The image looks fine;
it's just
> this annoying border that appears to be part of the image and
shouldn't be
> there. Frontplatten appears to be adding it.
>
> So I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered something similar?
I'd
> probably approach Schaeffer about this anyway, but thought I'd try
here
> first. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
>
> Secondly, has anyone else attempted to get little vectored images
etc. onto
> Schaeffer panels? Were the results anything to shout about?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Trevor.
>
>
>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Mar 28 00:59:05 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:59:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] My SMT projects
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020327092753.16869A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA25CC9.11E7AA92@prodigy.net>



Tony Clark wrote:  <snip>

>    As you might see, I have a tendency to over-engineer things.  :)
>

Hmmm.... what IS Tony saying.  Over-engineer ?

For those less storied builders on the list... what Tony is suggesting is
actually
good engineering practice.  Most people recognize the value of good
decoupling...
this is better than most.

An engineer seeks to make a product that performs within a given set of
specifications... should we tighten the noose on Tony (sorry dude - figure of
speech)
he might respond differently. If we demanded a very low cost.... or a very
small package... it might be worth seeing if the parts could be deleted
without too much
effect on the performance...   In Tony's case... I don't think he gonna do a
big production run (but save one for me if you do...)... so the cost is
probably NOT an object. Likewise the space is his choice.  Leaving those
electrolytic caps out of a "wristwatch-synth" would be a good idea  ;^P

The moral of the story (didn't know you were a philosopher eh Tony ?) is that
is is
far easier to add components that you think will ensure good performance...
and
delete them later... than to try to add them as an afterthought (especially in
SMT).

My latest project has 200 .1uF decoupling caps.  Think I'm gonna go back and
see
how many I can remove before it starts to stop working. NOT!

<accountant mode on>

Unless you all want to buy a whole lot of them....  /amo

OTOH.... some circuits (few imho) have gotten their 'quirky original sound' by
design
flaws... leaving out too many components and allowing interaction through the
power supply etc...

But honest... how many of you really LIKE the fact that you LFO LED indicators

make your VCF go gaga at high resonance ???

Over-engineering is always a GOOD thing from an engineering point of view...
and (double-plus) the accountants will HATE you   ;^P

H^) harry

>



From trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 01:06:51 2002
From: trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk (Trevor Page)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:06:51 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles
References: <003801c1d5e2$0d0a7980$4c3d87d9@tb303> <001c01c1d5ea$8f10f000$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <005c01c1d5ec$82a16d20$4c3d87d9@tb303>

Ah, interesting to find someone doing a similar thing. The 'find edge'
feature was something I was going to use at a later stage once I had got
these initial problems out of the way. Out of interest do you have any
images of panels you've engraved like this on the web? I'm interested to see
what the results are like. Also, are you using the command-line version of
KVEC? (I don't know if a version with a GUI actually exists). Do you just
perform a simple conversion, or do you optimise it in anyway i.e. using
switches? Any particular settings that you find work best? I've briefly read
through the text file but not progressed much beyond the simple "kvec
test.bmp test.plt" yet.

I'm not sure if the conversion method would be the issue here though,
because I did view the HP-GL file beforehand and the border didn't appear to
be there. But I am not 100% sure here.

Also if it's cool with you, I'd like to send over one or two hp-gl samples
of what I've done, for your opinions.

Oh - I assume you are actually importing your files into Frontplatten here?

Cheers and thanks for the advice,

Trevor.


----- Original Message -----
From: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>
To: "Trevor Page" <trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk>;
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles


> Well, your conversion method might be a bit of issue.
>
> But, now, what I do is I use the "find edge" feature in Photoshop,
> then tell kvec to put a line down the middle of the bitmap line.
>
> Once the edges are found, its very easy for KVEC to deal with, but
> KVEC has a very hard-to-tune edge find feature.
>
> Also, too, KVEC is very bad about putting multiple parallel lines
> instead of only one.
>
>
> Rob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Trevor Page" <trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 5:52 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm currently working on a front panel design [for my TR909 clone
> project]
> > using Frontplatten Designer 2. I've encountered a problem regaring
> importing
> > HP-GL files, and since a good few people on the list also go to
> Schaeffer
> > for their panels, I'm wondering if someone here can help me in any
> way.
> >
> > Basically I'm attempting to have a small picture engraved onto the
> panel. I
> > am drawing the image first as a bitmap (.bmp), and then converting
> this to
> > HP-GL vector format using KVEC. (I know that bitmap to vector
> conversion
> > isn't the most ideal thing in the world, but the results as viewed
> in
> > ViewCompanion are pretty good IMHO). So I have my hp-gl file. The
> problem is
> > that when I import this file into Frontplatten, it always shows a
> solid
> > border around the image. It's definately not there just to mark the
> boundary
> > of the image - when printing out the panel design, the border is
> still
> > there. I checked the hp-gl file using ViewCompanion again and that
> border
> > doesn't appear to be in the original file. The image looks fine;
> it's just
> > this annoying border that appears to be part of the image and
> shouldn't be
> > there. Frontplatten appears to be adding it.
> >
> > So I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered something similar?
> I'd
> > probably approach Schaeffer about this anyway, but thought I'd try
> here
> > first. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
> >
> > Secondly, has anyone else attempted to get little vectored images
> etc. onto
> > Schaeffer panels? Were the results anything to shout about?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Trevor.
> >
> >
> >
>
>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Mar 28 01:11:30 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:11:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] LFO
References: <SO5A1XF0IHHCXWRL3FDB6C8GBC94Z.3ca23a6f@xmass>
Message-ID: <3CA25FB1.728D2ED@prodigy.net>

Hi Hans....

although I am known to consider solderless breadboards in a class with
BBDs....

in the case of an LFO I doubt there is a problem with the breadboard. For

reasonably slow circuits they will work OK... capacitance should not be
an
issue.

Do you have any test equipment (scope, meter, etc...)?

Stick with one design to start with... then hunt (and again) for every
connection.
Make a photocopy of the schematic and trace every connection you make and

use a hi-lighter (or a crayon ;^)  to mark the copy. Double check all
polarized
components with extra care.

Apply power and put a fingertip on all the components... if you say ouch
(hot) you
have a problem there.

contact me on or off list I'd be glad to help you out. Don't get
discouraged.  I just spent two days debugging some poorly considered
wiring in my latest project...
two boards with 90 IC's....

H^) harry

xmurz at gmx.de wrote:

> Hello!
> I got a few questions...
> I got a +/- 12 Volt linear PSU today, which is really
> stable.
>
> I got out my breadboard and tried the Modulus LFO (of issue 8)
> with that one. However, even after 4 hours it wouldn't oscillate.
> (with a TL082)
> When I touch pin 2 of the first opamp, i get  a big pulse on my osci.
> hmmm.. somhow the feedback loop doesn't have anough power, I suppose.
>
> Then i ripped all the stuff off the breadboard.
>
> Then I had a go at the ASM-1 LFO. Same thing, doesn't oscillate.
>
> So is this because of the +-12V, of the breadboard (capacitance) or
> am I hitting hy head with a wall=?
>
> ANY help/suggestion appreaciated.
>
> Regards,
>    Hans

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Thu Mar 28 03:31:22 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:31:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles
References: <003801c1d5e2$0d0a7980$4c3d87d9@tb303>
 <001c01c1d5ea$8f10f000$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>
 <005c01c1d5ec$82a16d20$4c3d87d9@tb303>
Message-ID: <000401c1d600$a6d7f740$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor Page" <trevor at resonance.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles


> Ah, interesting to find someone doing a similar thing. The 'find
edge'
> feature was something I was going to use at a later stage once I had
got
> these initial problems out of the way. Out of interest do you have
any
> images of panels you've engraved like this on the web? I'm
interested to see
> what the results are like. Also, are you using the command-line
version of
> KVEC?

Yes..

(I don't know if a version with a GUI actually exists). Do you just
> perform a simple conversion, or do you optimise it in anyway i.e.
using
> switches?

I use the text switch a lot, and then I usually set the resolution for
high.

 Any particular settings that you find work best? I've briefly read
> through the text file but not progressed much beyond the simple
"kvec
> test.bmp test.plt" yet.

-font works really well, combined with -resolution high. The others
depend on what resolution of the source material is..

IMHO, Wintopo kicks its ass. Try that first. ;) I am having serious
misgivings about KVEC right now.


>
> I'm not sure if the conversion method would be the issue here
though,
> because I did view the HP-GL file beforehand and the border didn't
appear to
> be there. But I am not 100% sure here.
>
> Also if it's cool with you, I'd like to send over one or two hp-gl
samples
> of what I've done, for your opinions.

Yeah, send em over, thats fine.
>
> Oh - I assume you are actually importing your files into
Frontplatten here?

Well, I actually sprung for a 8 x 5 x 6 CNC milling machine that I
have churning away in the garage. ;) So, mostly, I do my own
engraving, hence the reason behind this excursion; I was making a
remake of 303 and 606 cases, so I scanned the original faceplates,
took them into Photoshop, cleaned them up, took them into KVEC,
converted them to DXF, then used BOBCAD to do the DXF-CNC conversion.

But, some ppl wanted some *extra* stuff on their new case, so I can
change it and engrave it into the unit, then fill the channels of the
engraving with paint and it looks really nice.

Not to get too off the subject, but I can't tell you how nice it is to
have a full prototyping lab in your house. I mean, its been rough
going on how to get these processes down so they work everytime,
learning CNC code, learning how to do hot stamp film, learning how to
make molds and cast resins, milling a board, etc but its been *very*
liberating knowing you don't need to go anywhere to build a board,
engrave a panel, design a custom case, scan in a knob in 3d and change
it to suit your needs, and all the other things you think of in a day.

Needless to say my wife is somewhat pissed. ;)

Rob




From oleavitt at ix.netcom.com  Thu Mar 28 05:19:41 2002
From: oleavitt at ix.netcom.com (Oren B. Leavitt)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:19:41 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] LM703 ???
Message-ID: <3CA299DC.F6F51C7F@ix.netcom.com>

Hello all,

LM 703 AH

Anybody know what this part is?
It's in a 6 lead metal can, like a dual transistor, but the tab is by
the center lead of one of the sets of 3 leads instead of at one end of
both sets, like on a dual transistor.
It bears the old National Semiconductor 'NS' logo where the S looks like
the N but flipped and rotated. So these things are probably from the
'70s.
My guess is that it might be an analog switch or isolator of some sort.

Any clues?
Thanks

--
Oren Leavitt
oleavitt at ix.netcom.com




From clark at andrews.edu  Thu Mar 28 05:48:03 2002
From: clark at andrews.edu (Tony Clark)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:48:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] My SMT projects
In-Reply-To: <3CA25CC9.11E7AA92@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020327232515.7081A-100000@orion.cc.andrews.edu>

> For those less storied builders on the list... what Tony is suggesting is
> actually good engineering practice.  Most people recognize the value of 
> good decoupling... this is better than most.

   Thanks for such a great compliment! 

> An engineer seeks to make a product that performs within a given set of
> specifications... should we tighten the noose on Tony (sorry dude - figure of
> speech) he might respond differently. If we demanded a very low 
> cost.... or a very small package... it might be worth seeing if the 
> parts could be deleted without too much effect on the performance...   

   This is very true.  Budget always dictates the level of engineering in 
a project!

> In Tony's case... I don't think he gonna do a
> big production run (but save one for me if you do...)... so the cost is
> probably NOT an object. Likewise the space is his choice.

   The beauty of SMT design is that once a project is debugged and 
finalized, mass production is a snap!  For my projects, there is still 
elements that would need to be debugged and redone in order to make that 
leap into production, but it could be done with enough interest and (of 
course) money.
   BTW, I always do a run of ten PCBs...but you probably don't want to 
know what it would cost you to get a completed hand-built module from 
me!  Heck, _I_ don't like to know what it costs ME!
 
> The moral of the story (didn't know you were a philosopher eh Tony ?) is that
> is is far easier to add components that you think will ensure good 
> performance...  and delete them later... than to try to add them as an 
> afterthought (especially in  SMT).

   You are absolutely right!  For my company's latest project, I left a 
few "extra" resistor pads in various places in the circuit just in case 
there happened to be some last minute design change that the customer 
wanted.   ...And guess what?  They came in handy!  ;)

> OTOH.... some circuits (few imho) have gotten their 'quirky original 
> sound' by design flaws... leaving out too many components and allowing 
> interaction through the power supply etc...

   True, but I don't think that there has been any design that couldn't 
be duplicated with better engineering.  Cost effective?  Probably not, 
but there is something to be said about circuits that behave the way 
you'd expect them to and each unit performs like the next.  I don't feel 
that I should have to pick out an electronic instrument like choosing 
between a set of stradivarius violins to see which has the best tone!

> Over-engineering is always a GOOD thing from an engineering point of view...
> and (double-plus) the accountants will HATE you   ;^P

   Of course it's even better when you can be the engineer AND the bean 
counter at the same time!  ;)  Having to design products for the 
educational marketplace means that I have to do things as cheaply as I 
can, yet still manufacture a product that needs to survive the abuse that 
teenagers are going to put the product through.  It's a good testiment to 
success when a research paper says it will take $3000 worth of equipment 
to perform an experiment, and my company can market that equipment for 
less than $200 retail!
   So I get to be on both sides of the fence, cost-cutting, and 
high-quality.  I like to save money as much as anyone else, but there is 
a saying that I like to live by:

   "A cheap tool is an expensive tool." - Gardening By The Yard HGTV

   Do it right the first time, and you'll be better off in the long run!

   Cheers,

   Tony, the philosopher

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
         The E-Music DIY Archive - New Site Coming Soon!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"We wouldn't want to ship something that doesn't work"
   - Carl Stork, general manager, Microsoft Windows division
     Excerpt from EE Times April 2, 2001



From patchell at silcom.com  Thu Mar 28 05:52:47 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:52:47 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] LM703 ???
References: <3CA299DC.F6F51C7F@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3CA2A19F.4EBF6701@silcom.com>

    LM703---Low power drain rf/if amplifier...basically just a differential
pair with a current source...

"Oren B. Leavitt" wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> LM 703 AH
>
> Anybody know what this part is?
> It's in a 6 lead metal can, like a dual transistor, but the tab is by
> the center lead of one of the sets of 3 leads instead of at one end of
> both sets, like on a dual transistor.
> It bears the old National Semiconductor 'NS' logo where the S looks like
> the N but flipped and rotated. So these things are probably from the
> '70s.
> My guess is that it might be an analog switch or isolator of some sort.
>
> Any clues?
> Thanks
>
> --
> Oren Leavitt
> oleavitt at ix.netcom.com

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From elmystico at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 06:51:58 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Gavin Russom)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:51:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "cute" project
Message-ID: <E16qSt9-0005K0-00@albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

seems like there's enough interest in this to post it on list, as I said it
shows the design for just two oscillators but it should be obvious how to
expand it, it's a rough drawing so bear with me...
----------
>From: "rab fulton" <rabster1 at ntlworld.com>
>To: "Magus Ship" <elmystico at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] "cute" project
>Date: Thu, Mar 28, 2002, 12:32 AM
>

>saw you have schematics on the list. Could you send me copy?
>Looks interesting. Are the results usable?
>thanks
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Magus Ship" <elmystico at earthlink.net>
>To: "synth" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:27 AM
>Subject: [sdiy] "cute" project
>
>
>> I just built my girlfriend a little light controlled synth based on a
>wacky
>> idea I had.  I used 4 simple square/triangle oscillators with cadmium
>> sulfide cells in addition to the pot that controls the current going to
>the
>> oscillator cap.  Each of these oscillators has an LED at its out put as
>well
>> as the audio output.  The audio outputs are mixed through a summing node
>and
>> then invertered (through an inverter).  The LED's are mounted in a square
>on
>> the front panel.  The cadmium sulfide cells are mounted in a larger square
>> outside the LED's so that the light from the LED (output of one
>oscillator)
>> is controlling the frequency of the next oscillator, which is controlling
>> the next, which is controlling the first one.  It can sit and play itself
>> for hours...  Especially interesting is when the 4 are set to just below
>> audio frequency when the LED's are off, then when they turn on they push
>> each other up into audio and set off a chain reaction.  Anyway, it seemed
>> like this idea could really be expanded upon for lots of interesting
>> effects!!
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: lightsynth.pdf
Type: application/mac-binhex40
Size: 13092 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020328/ba81af30/attachment.hqx>

From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 07:33:38 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:33:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] LM703 ???
In-Reply-To: <3CA299DC.F6F51C7F@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20020328063338.8114.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,

i found an obscure reference. Its for a noise bridge,
used by radio guys. Unfortunately the webpage is in
spanish:

http://www.qsl.net/cx1ddr/noise.htm

It shows an LM703 as some sort of NAND gate, but that
doesn't make sense in the circuit. Opamp perhaps?

--TR


--- "Oren B. Leavitt" <oleavitt at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> LM 703 AH
> 
> Anybody know what this part is?
> It's in a 6 lead metal can, like a dual transistor,
> but the tab is by
> the center lead of one of the sets of 3 leads
> instead of at one end of
> both sets, like on a dual transistor.
> It bears the old National Semiconductor 'NS' logo
> where the S looks like
> the N but flipped and rotated. So these things are
> probably from the
> '70s.
> My guess is that it might be an analog switch or
> isolator of some sort.
> 
> Any clues?
> Thanks
> 
> --
> Oren Leavitt
> oleavitt at ix.netcom.com
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From pgrenader at mksound.com  Thu Mar 28 11:21:30 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 03:21:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Arun is a member.
In-Reply-To: <F98943c7EbZdulO9qrE00007e56@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C83CBA.30BA%pgrenader@mksound.com>

Modulus is indeed a synth-related white paper that comes out on a
gentleman's site.  You can get them from PDFs on that site.  Sorry for all
the pronouns,  I am forgetting the specifics (person's name, site address,
etc.)  Google should be your aid here.

on 3/28/02 11:37 AM, Arun Bohm at arun_bohm at hotmail.com wrote:

> 
> What is modulus? is this a publication? If so how would I get a hold of a
> subscription?
> arun_bohm at hotmail.com
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> 




From Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Mar 28 11:34:48 2002
From: Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk (Lincoln Fong)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:34:48 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: cute project
Message-ID: <MABBKNPNGJOBNLFIJCAFKEBCCNAA.Linc@christeld.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Gavin

>>>.  The LED's are mounted in a square on
>>>the front panel.  The cadmium sulfide cells are mounted in a larger
square
>>outside the LED's so that the light from the LED (output of one
oscillator)
>>>is controlling the frequency of the next oscillator, which is controlling
>>>the next, which is controlling the first one.  It can sit and play itself

you seem to be saying that each CDS cell is illuminated partly by the
corresponding LED and partly by natural room lighting. Does this and the
combined crosstalk effect of the other LEDs not 'drown out' the effect of
the specific LED in normal lighting conditions or are they mounted very
close?
I must say Im intrigued by this project

Lincoln



From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Thu Mar 28 14:23:40 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:40 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] broken juno on ebay
Message-ID: <3CA3195C.21253156@verizon.net>

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=853252804

I asked people not to bid on it.... it's at 178.25, which is over my
max on this.  It's just not worth more than 175 for me, so if anybody
was holding back, thanks, but go bid away now.

there are also another 106 and an hs-60 with problems on there.. going
for okay prices.  

thanks all.

-ben


From frankentron at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 16:00:37 2002
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:00:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] broken juno on ebay
Message-ID: <F2049TqCVcZBEWY3KsL00005e9d@hotmail.com>

if someone on the list does win one of these busted 106's and decides to 
part it out, please let me know.

~M

>
>I asked people not to bid on it.... it's at 178.25, which is over my
>max on this.  It's just not worth more than 175 for me, so if anybody
>was holding back, thanks, but go bid away now.
>
>there are also another 106 and an hs-60 with problems on there.. going
>for okay prices.
>
>thanks all.
>
>-ben




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



From elmystico at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 16:47:28 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Gavin Russom)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:47:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: cute project
Message-ID: <E16qcBQ-0002IN-00@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

the led and the photocell it mods are mounted right next to ecah other, the
"square" that they are mounted in puts each led/cds cell pair about five
inches apart.  The frequency range is such that, no the room lighting and
the other led's do not "drown out" the main led's effect, they do however
affect it, for example in normal room lighting the general frequency of the
machine's output is the same, and if one oscillator is set to audio and the
rest are set to sub audio it acts as a sequencer, different pitches
corresponding to the led's distances from the cds cells, hope that answers
your question.
Gavin
----------
>From: "Lincoln Fong" <Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: "Synth-Diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>, "Magus Ship"
<elmystico at earthlink.net>
>Subject: [sdiy] Re: cute project
>Date: Thu, Mar 28, 2002, 5:34 AM
>

>Hi Gavin
>
>>>>.  The LED's are mounted in a square on
>>>>the front panel.  The cadmium sulfide cells are mounted in a larger
>square
>>>outside the LED's so that the light from the LED (output of one
>oscillator)
>>>>is controlling the frequency of the next oscillator, which is controlling
>>>>the next, which is controlling the first one.  It can sit and play itself
>
>you seem to be saying that each CDS cell is illuminated partly by the
>corresponding LED and partly by natural room lighting. Does this and the
>combined crosstalk effect of the other LEDs not 'drown out' the effect of
>the specific LED in normal lighting conditions or are they mounted very
>close?
>I must say Im intrigued by this project
>
>Lincoln
>


From xmurz at gmx.de  Thu Mar 28 17:29:46 2002
From: xmurz at gmx.de (xmurz at gmx.de)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:29:46 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] LFO
In-Reply-To: <3CA25FB1.728D2ED@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <525NJSFBZTJ98C92W3VNIVS61DBA8.3ca344fa@xmass>

28.03.02 01:11:30, harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:

>Hi Hans....
>
>although I am known to consider solderless breadboards in a class with
>BBDs....
>
>in the case of an LFO I doubt there is a problem with the breadboard. For
>
>reasonably slow circuits they will work OK... capacitance should not be
>an
>issue.
>
>Do you have any test equipment (scope, meter, etc...)?

Yes, I have both a scope and a meter.

>
>Stick with one design to start with... then hunt (and again) for every
>connection.
>Make a photocopy of the schematic and trace every connection you make and
>
>use a hi-lighter (or a crayon ;^)  to mark the copy. Double check all
>polarized
>components with extra care.

I will take that advice!

>
>Apply power and put a fingertip on all the components... if you say ouch
>(hot) you
>have a problem there.

That happened with the TL082 one. I instantly switched of the PSU
(as there must have been a short circuit... don't want to waste those TL082's...

>
>contact me on or off list I'd be glad to help you out. Don't get
>discouraged.  I just spent two days debugging some poorly considered
>wiring in my latest project...
>two boards with 90 IC's....

Thanks!


I think it actually has to do with the pins of the TL082.. must have messed up something with that...
I will have another go at it this evening (in about 3 hours) and will post the result.

Regards,
   Hans




From arun_bohm at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 19:37:29 2002
From: arun_bohm at hotmail.com (Arun Bohm)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:37:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Arun is a member.
Message-ID: <F98943c7EbZdulO9qrE00007e56@hotmail.com>


What is modulus? is this a publication? If so how would I get a hold of a 
subscription?
arun_bohm at hotmail.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



From blacet at blacet.com  Thu Mar 28 21:25:19 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:25:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Multi and attenuators.....modular
References: <01c1c242$66e50640$LocalHost@wefwf>
Message-ID: <3CA37C2F.3005E453@blacet.com>

So I'm looking at a FracRak ear and realize that there is room for some
jacks, etc in one vertical row. They would actually mount on the side
panel that attaches to back of the ear, with clearance/access holes in
the ear itself. Or a small PCB might be nice.

I see three jacks as a multi and an IN jack, OUT jack and pot for the
attenuator. The multi would be normalled to the IN jack, which would
give you a 4X multi with one attenuated OUT if nothing was plugged in
the IN jack.

Plus, if you "misuse" the OUT as an "IN", then it looks like you have an
attenuator with three outs....penalty being a low input impedance with
the pot wiper near ground. 1K resistor might be good idea.

Useful? More ideas?

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From arun_bohm at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 28 21:35:33 2002
From: arun_bohm at hotmail.com (Arun Bohm)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:35:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks
Message-ID: <F220Pc99ir3wSimD3Jk000000ef@hotmail.com>

arun_bohm at hotmail.com

Thanks. I'll try the search engines.
cheers.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



From esresource at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 21:40:50 2002
From: esresource at earthlink.net (Scott Evans, Gen Mgr)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:40:50 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Arun is a member.
References: <B8C83CBA.30BA%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <3CA37FD2.8E92442B@earthlink.net>

Try here:

www.modulus.wavesynth.com/modular/modular.htm

Scott

Peter Grenader wrote:
> 
> Modulus is indeed a synth-related white paper that comes out on a
> gentleman's site.  You can get them from PDFs on that site.  Sorry for all
> the pronouns,  I am forgetting the specifics (person's name, site address,
> etc.)  Google should be your aid here.
> 
> on 3/28/02 11:37 AM, Arun Bohm at arun_bohm at hotmail.com wrote:
> 
> >
> > What is modulus? is this a publication? If so how would I get a hold of a
> > subscription?
> > arun_bohm at hotmail.com
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> >


From psnow at magma.ca  Thu Mar 28 23:17:52 2002
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:17:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Arun is a member.
References: <F98943c7EbZdulO9qrE00007e56@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA39690.BBA3C904@magma.ca>

Arun,

Modulus is/was an online synth DIY magazine put out by Paul Maddox from somewhere in the dark depths
of the UK.
There has not been a new release for a while now - pity 'cos there was some good stuff in there. The
last one was #8. They are all available at the URL Scott gave in a previous email. Anyway, Paul
hangs out on this list so I'm sure if you have questions he will chime in.

Regards,

Peter
 

Arun Bohm wrote:
> 
> What is modulus? is this a publication? If so how would I get a hold of a
> subscription?
> arun_bohm at hotmail.com
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From jorandal at vt.edu  Fri Mar 29 00:49:18 2002
From: jorandal at vt.edu (Josh Randall)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:49:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] ASM1 VCO
In-Reply-To: <3CA39690.BBA3C904@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0203281842170.1137-100000@dragon.ee.vt.edu>

I finally got the VCO for my ASM1 to work and am very excited.  When I
hooked it up to my Oscope I got a waveform like the following:
\          \          \
 \          \          \
  \          \          \
   -------    --------   --------
I get a line sloped down then it is flat then another downward voltage
then flat.  Does anybody know what could cause the shape of my wave to be
off?

Thanks.

Sincerlly,

Josh Randall



From gene at ixiacom.com  Fri Mar 29 01:33:35 2002
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:33:35 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] ASM1 VCO
Message-ID: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8AB01744F7A@racerx.ixiacom.com>

Seems to me the sawtooth discharge is staying on too long. The discharge FET
is controlled by the LM311 comparator, and the on-time of the reset pulse is
set by an 18pf cap (if I remember right). This is a pretty tiny cap, so I'd
do the following:

a) make sure the cap is really 18pf
b) de-flux the circuit board

To de-flux, get some 100% isopropyl alcohol (like from the electronics
store) and an old clean toothbrush. Turn the board solder-side up, pour
enough alcohol on it to cover the whole board, and start brushing away for a
couple of minutes. Wait for it to dry, then do it again. When it's
completely dry again, power up and look again. Heads up: don't do this over
a nice floor. Seems like a lot of alcohol will go on the ground, but it's
worth it. I do it in the garage. Outside would be better - this stuff is
flammable.

At what frequency does this waveform appear? Is the flat spot a constant
size, so that a lower frequency setting is more sawtooth-like?

Also I'd just like to say "keep it up". When I got my first Electronotes
circuits on PCB's from Wasatch Music in 1974, none of them worked at first
and I knew nothing about electronics. After some time and perserverence they
were all working, and still do to this day. It sounds funny but it's like
riding a bike. I pretty much learned everything I know about electronics
from that experience. When I finally got my degree I aced everything because
I already knew it.


- Gene


-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Randall [mailto:jorandal at vt.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 3:49 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] ASM1 VCO


I finally got the VCO for my ASM1 to work and am very excited.  When I
hooked it up to my Oscope I got a waveform like the following:
\          \          \
 \          \          \
  \          \          \
   -------    --------   --------
I get a line sloped down then it is flat then another downward voltage
then flat.  Does anybody know what could cause the shape of my wave to be
off?

Thanks.

Sincerlly,

Josh Randall


From cyborgzero at comcast.net  Fri Mar 29 02:05:00 2002
From: cyborgzero at comcast.net (cyborgzero at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:05:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles
References: <58655394BA88D411803000508BDF35B8D6878E@magellan>
Message-ID: <000401c1d6bd$c058e9a0$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortner Florian" <florian.fortner at fh-joanneum.at>
To: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:52 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles


> Hello!
>
> I tried to convert a Bitmap to vector-format with Wintopo, but I am
not able
> to save *.plt files, do I make something wrong or is there a utility
to
> convert a (by Wintopo supported) *.dxf file to a HPGL file?
>
> regards,
>
> flo

AHA, sorry, I forgot, I *still* use kvec to then take the DXF from
wintopo and convert it to HPGL. ;)

I know,  I know, its complex, but it does work. ;)

There are a few other easier to use utilities that will do it too.

I went ahead and sent this to the list because its prlly a general
thought to most also.

So, to recap:

Raster Image format > Wintopo > save as DXF > open DXF into KVEC >
convert from DXF to HPGL

Try that.

:)

Rob




From sysyphus at sympatico.ca  Fri Mar 29 02:26:50 2002
From: sysyphus at sympatico.ca (David Reichert)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:26:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Current Draw
In-Reply-To: <9A9C83C019F35D47A570460E87D5D8AB01744F7A@racerx.ixiacom.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d6c0$d0a6ecf0$5326e440@Sysyphus>



Hi everyone,

I'm building a modular system with a power supply with a maximum power
output of 500 mA.

Does anyone know how I can figure out the how much current each module
will use so that I don't go over?

Thanks,
Dave




From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:31 2002
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:52:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d6bd$c058e9a0$0601a8c0@northw01.in.comcast.net>
References: <58655394BA88D411803000508BDF35B8D6878E@magellan>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020328215231.007cada0@hoohahrecords.com>

I use AutoCAD here at home, and I just defined a printer that prints HPGL
plot files.  Those Hewlett Packard drivers should be on your Windows disk.
Here's how:

Start -> Settings -> Printers

- Select "Add a Printer"
- Where it says "Print to Port" Select "FILE"
- For printer select "HP Draftmaster 1"
I named mine "AutoCAD plot to File"

Now when you should be able to select "AutoCAD plot to file" as your
printer and print straight from the first application and create a .plt file

Hope this helps!

Dave





At 08:05 PM 3/28/02 -0500, cyborgzero at comcast.net wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Fortner Florian" <florian.fortner at fh-joanneum.at>
>To: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>
>Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:52 AM
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles
>
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> I tried to convert a Bitmap to vector-format with Wintopo, but I am
>not able
>> to save *.plt files, do I make something wrong or is there a utility
>to
>> convert a (by Wintopo supported) *.dxf file to a HPGL file?
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> flo
>
>AHA, sorry, I forgot, I *still* use kvec to then take the DXF from
>wintopo and convert it to HPGL. ;)
>
>I know,  I know, its complex, but it does work. ;)
>
>There are a few other easier to use utilities that will do it too.
>
>I went ahead and sent this to the list because its prlly a general
>thought to most also.
>
>So, to recap:
>
>Raster Image format > Wintopo > save as DXF > open DXF into KVEC >
>convert from DXF to HPGL
>
>Try that.
>
>:)
>
>Rob
>
>

Resonant Frequency:
resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html


From thescum at surfree.com  Fri Mar 29 05:26:57 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:26:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Kick Drum schematics
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020329042657.009849a4@smtp.surfree.com>

>I've taken a fancy to trying some analog kick drum circuits...
>can anyone point me to some schematics perhaps for the
>Rol at nd units or similar.
>
>I'm using a sampled (Alesis D4) kick right now but want to try
>an analog for a different sound.

I've got an interesting bass drum schematic...It sounds truly incredible.
However, it involves about 20 pounds of maple or birch plywood :>

Give this a try, too:
http://hardware.freepage.de/raf909/

There's a bunch of twin-t drums around the net as well.  Incredibly simple,
and velocity sensitive by design.

Byron



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Mar 29 05:48:47 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:48:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Multi and attenuators.....modular
References: <01c1c242$66e50640$LocalHost@wefwf> <3CA37C2F.3005E453@blacet.com>
Message-ID: <3CA3F22E.40761A44@prodigy.net>

Hi John (et al)

Check out how Fender does the input jacks on their tube amps such as
the Twin, etc... They make it so that if you use one jack, you get one
attenuation... the other jack is a second attenuation... and if you use both

they become a mixer. Might be a clever trick to try...

H^) harry

John Blacet wrote:

> So I'm looking at a FracRak ear and realize that there is room for some
> jacks, etc in one vertical row. They would actually mount on the side
> panel that attaches to back of the ear, with clearance/access holes in
> the ear itself. Or a small PCB might be nice.
>
> I see three jacks as a multi and an IN jack, OUT jack and pot for the
> attenuator. The multi would be normalled to the IN jack, which would
> give you a 4X multi with one attenuated OUT if nothing was plugged in
> the IN jack.
>
> Plus, if you "misuse" the OUT as an "IN", then it looks like you have an
> attenuator with three outs....penalty being a low input impedance with
> the pot wiper near ground. 1K resistor might be good idea.
>
> Useful? More ideas?
>
> Regards,
> ___________________
> John Blacet
> Blacet Research
> http://www.blacet.com

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Mar 29 06:18:54 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:18:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Kick Drum schematics
Message-ID: <3CA3F93D.EDAA805B@prodigy.net>

I've taken a fancy to trying some analog kick drum circuits...
can anyone point me to some schematics perhaps for the
Rol at nd units or similar.

I'm using a sampled (Alesis D4) kick right now but want to try
an analog for a different sound.

tnx.

H^) harry

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From focalart at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 29 06:49:07 2002
From: focalart at hotmail.com (jazz breaks ice)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:49:07 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <OE4191DHGcC3bTj3f6L0001f4e7@hotmail.com>

unsubscribe

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020328/87b9e6d3/attachment.htm>

From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Mar 29 06:51:35 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:51:35 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Multi Segment Envelope Generator
Message-ID: <3CA400E7.CFCD2B69@silcom.com>

    Here is another one I am working on.  The schematic is prelim, and
probably has some errors in it.  I just got done fixing a few more...you
are welcome to tell me about any others, if you spot them.

    http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/synthmodules/multisegenv.html

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From jlarryh at iquest.net  Fri Mar 29 07:15:43 2002
From: jlarryh at iquest.net (J. Larry Hendry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:15:43 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Reverse audio taper pots found
Message-ID: <001101c1d6e9$29639280$59492bd1@oemcomputer>

Seems like someone was looking for these reverse audio taper pots not too
long ago.  I was scanning the newest MECI catalog and they have one listed
as:  10K reverse audio taper.  It has the smaller 1/8" diameter shaft.  Part
# 450-0242.  If you are interested, you can check it out at their web site.
Larry H




From elmystico at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 07:53:14 2002
From: elmystico at earthlink.net (Magus Ship)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:53:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: cute project
Message-ID: <E16qqJy-0005qa-00@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Like this:



         0
         +
        / \
       /   \                    + = LED, 0 = CDS CELL, / = ~1 inch of panel
space
      /     \
     /       \
   0+         +0
     \       /
      \     /
       \   /
        \ /
         +
         0



----------
>From: harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>To: Gavin Russom <elmystico at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Re: cute project
>Date: Thu, Mar 28, 2002, 11:53 PM
>

>gosh no... i'm not getting it. could you give a simple sketch ?  I picture
>them in a square... like four men holding a pistol in their right hand...
>shooting at the head of the guy to their right... if they all pull the trigger
>at the same time... everyone dies. Are they standing 5" apart ???
>
>H^) harry
>
>Gavin Russom wrote:
>
>> the led and the photocell it mods are mounted right next to ecah other, the
>> "square" that they are mounted in puts each led/cds cell pair about five
>> inches apart.  The frequency range is such that, no the room lighting and
>> the other led's do not "drown out" the main led's effect, they do however
>> affect it, for example in normal room lighting the general frequency of the
>> machine's output is the same, and if one oscillator is set to audio and the
>> rest are set to sub audio it acts as a sequencer, different pitches
>> corresponding to the led's distances from the cds cells, hope that answers
>> your question.
>> Gavin
>> ----------
>> >From: "Lincoln Fong" <Linc at christeld.freeserve.co.uk>
>> >To: "Synth-Diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>, "Magus Ship"
>> <elmystico at earthlink.net>
>> >Subject: [sdiy] Re: cute project
>> >Date: Thu, Mar 28, 2002, 5:34 AM
>> >
>>
>> >Hi Gavin
>> >
>> >>>>.  The LED's are mounted in a square on
>> >>>>the front panel.  The cadmium sulfide cells are mounted in a larger
>> >square
>> >>>outside the LED's so that the light from the LED (output of one
>> >oscillator)
>> >>>>is controlling the frequency of the next oscillator, which is controlling
>> >>>>the next, which is controlling the first one.  It can sit and play itself
>> >
>> >you seem to be saying that each CDS cell is illuminated partly by the
>> >corresponding LED and partly by natural room lighting. Does this and the
>> >combined crosstalk effect of the other LEDs not 'drown out' the effect of
>> >the specific LED in normal lighting conditions or are they mounted very
>> >close?
>> >I must say Im intrigued by this project
>> >
>> >Lincoln
>> >
>
>--
>Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
>Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
>Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
>go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
>hide... how about YOU ???
>
>


From mitch at sirius.com  Fri Mar 29 07:54:06 2002
From: mitch at sirius.com (Mitchell Hudson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:54:06 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Multi and attenuators.....modular
In-Reply-To: <3CA37C2F.3005E453@blacet.com>
Message-ID: <C382F01C-42E1-11D6-8D9B-0003936B7D9A@sirius.com>

	I've been thinking to build some multi's into the Frak-Rack ears 
for a while now. I was thinking to just do two sets of four all 
connected. I like your idea, you could almost build any small module 
into and ear when you ran out of rack space. Maybe an LFO with a rate 
knob.

--M

On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 12:25 PM, John Blacet wrote:

> w input imped



From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Mar 29 07:42:50 2002
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:42:50
Subject: [sdiy] Again- LFO, working
Message-ID: <20020329154309.EAEV16260.out002.verizon.net@mail.lan>

No reason for it not to work.  I'd bet a doughnut that
it was a wiring error and that if you built it again that
way (starting from scratch) it would work.  I have done
this, where I build something and it doesn't work.  I simply 
rip it apart and starting over WITH THE SAME PARTS, the same 
way, and it works fine.


>>From: xmurz at gmx.de
>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: [sdiy] Again- LFO, working
>>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:22:01 +0100 (MET)
>>
>>Hello!
>>
>>The 2 LFO's I tried (ASM-1 and Modulus) were not working.
>>
>>The Modulus e-zines can be found at:
>>http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com/modular/modular.htm
>>(as somebody asked for the address)
>>
>>I now got the ASM-1 LFO to work nicely.
>>The problem was, that I had the non inverting opamp
>>on one TL082, and the inverting opamp on another TL082.
>>Now that I got both parts on one TL082 it works.
>>(Don't ask my, why I dit it with 2, to begin with.)
>>
>>Now my question:
>>Why is it not working with 2 seperate opamps???
>>
>>Then there is the 22R Resitor. I substituted a
>>trimmer for that part, because a 22R value caused
>>my LFO to go towards (aproximately) 10V + without
>>returning back down on the lowest LFO speed.
>>
>>A trimmer enables me to get to poti down to very
>>low speed without going up to 10V+.
>>The trimmer will set be set to >22R
>>
>>Is that normal???
>>
>>Will all parts of the ASM-1 work on a +-12V PSU?
>>
>>Regards,
>>   Hans
>>
>>--
>>GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
>>http://www.gmx.net
>>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>

=========================================================  
- Government: The other religion.
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- Lambs who lie down with lions are lunch.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/FatMan/index.html
-- NonFatMan: home1.GTE.NET/res0658s/electronics/index.html




From s.thomas at qmul.ac.uk  Fri Mar 29 10:12:12 2002
From: s.thomas at qmul.ac.uk (steve thomas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:12:12 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Front Panel format ->DXF?
References: <58655394BA88D411803000508BDF35B8D6878E@magellan> <3.0.6.32.20020328215231.007cada0@hoohahrecords.com>
Message-ID: <005301c1d701$cffeb580$e35769d5@st>

Hi..following up on the recent Front Panel Designer thread...is there a
simple way (or any way!)
of converting a front panel .fpd file to dxf format?

cheers
steve thomas

Synth-DIY pages:-
http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Magnuson <resfreq at hoohahrecords.com>
To: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>; Fortner Florian
<florian.fortner at fh-joanneum.at>
Cc: synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles


> I use AutoCAD here at home, and I just defined a printer that prints HPGL
> plot files.  Those Hewlett Packard drivers should be on your Windows disk.
> Here's how:
>
> Start -> Settings -> Printers
>
> - Select "Add a Printer"
> - Where it says "Print to Port" Select "FILE"
> - For printer select "HP Draftmaster 1"
> I named mine "AutoCAD plot to File"
>
> Now when you should be able to select "AutoCAD plot to file" as your
> printer and print straight from the first application and create a .plt
file
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> At 08:05 PM 3/28/02 -0500, cyborgzero at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fortner Florian" <florian.fortner at fh-joanneum.at>
> >To: <cyborgzero at comcast.net>
> >Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:52 AM
> >Subject: RE: [sdiy] [semiOT] Schaeffer Frontplatten HP-GL troubles
> >
> >
> >> Hello!
> >>
> >> I tried to convert a Bitmap to vector-format with Wintopo, but I am
> >not able
> >> to save *.plt files, do I make something wrong or is there a utility
> >to
> >> convert a (by Wintopo supported) *.dxf file to a HPGL file?
> >>
> >> regards,
> >>
> >> flo
> >
> >AHA, sorry, I forgot, I *still* use kvec to then take the DXF from
> >wintopo and convert it to HPGL. ;)
> >
> >I know,  I know, its complex, but it does work. ;)
> >
> >There are a few other easier to use utilities that will do it too.
> >
> >I went ahead and sent this to the list because its prlly a general
> >thought to most also.
> >
> >So, to recap:
> >
> >Raster Image format > Wintopo > save as DXF > open DXF into KVEC >
> >convert from DXF to HPGL
> >
> >Try that.
> >
> >:)
> >
> >Rob
> >
> >
>
> Resonant Frequency:
> resfreq at hoohahrecords.com
> http://www.hoohahrecords.com/resfreq/index.html
>



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Fri Mar 29 10:47:41 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:47:41 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Leaving the list; saying goodbye and giving thanks to all..
Message-ID: <8.23bfb510.29d5923d@aol.com>

Hello guys,

I've been on the list for about five years now, but my life is rapidly 
changing in many ways, and I have decided to drop out of the group - at least 
for a while.  Who knows, maybe I'll be right back... or maybe not.  I'm 
certainly not bored with the list, it's just that I need to simplify my life 
a bit, and mailing lists can be a huge time suck, so I'm going to find out 
what life without them is like.  I think that this list is still the absolute 
best mailing list on the net, and I'm sure that it will remain so, long after 
I've gone.  You guys can still reach me via email if you need to, or if you 
just want to say hi.

Anyway, I just wanted to say a proper goodbye, and give great big thanks to 
everybody here.  It's the people on the list that make it great, and I'd like 
to send out an especially big wave of gratitude to these fine people (in no 
particular order):  Harry Bissell, Juergen Haible, Tony Clark, Tony Allgood, 
Rene Schmitz, Marjan Urekar, Paul Schreiber, Paul Maddox, John Blacet, Trevor 
Page, Ken Stone, Don Till, Mark Verbos, Colin Fraser, Terry Bowman, Terry 
Michaels, Michael Buchstaller, Magnus Danielson, Martin Czech, Grant Richter, 
Jim Johnson, Edu Silva, Peter Snow, John L. Marshall, Jeff R. Dec, Larry 
Hendry, Scott Gravenhorst, Jim Patchell, Scott Bernardi, Ian Fritz, Chris 
Hoaglin, Theo Hogers, Toby Paddock, Peter Ullrich, Dave Magnuson, Steven 
Thomas, Kevin Seward, James Husted, Tom Gamble, Christopher List, Romeo Fahl, 
Christopher Rider (the Old Crow), and at least twenty others who I can't 
remember right at this moment.  You guys are the best!

Happy trails,
Michael Bacich



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Fri Mar 29 10:56:52 2002
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:56:52 EST
Subject: [sdiy] ...just one more to thank --
Message-ID: <6.2667d7a7.29d59464@aol.com>

It's me again,

I can't leave here without giving HUGE props to the man who started the list, 
and still maintains and guides it to this day.  If it weren't for Rick 
Jansen, I wonder if there would ever have been this incredible resurgence in 
this field?  My hat is off to Rick.

Signing off,

Michael Bacich



From chris.crosskey at vicon.com  Fri Mar 29 11:45:29 2002
From: chris.crosskey at vicon.com (Chris Crosskey)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:45:29 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Arun is a member.
Message-ID: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D0208560CD8524@FILESERV>

Hi Arun  (and all the rest) 

Be careful of my VCO and VCA layouts, you want the last version of the VCO
PCB layout that appeared, there is a glaring (and not easy to fix) error on
the first VCO layout, the VCA is really clean but audio only, lacks headroom
(it's a shock when you hit the limit cos it clips like a digital :-)) and
has a nasty problem with CV bleedthrough....I don't remember if the version
that I cooked up with Jorgen Berforgdus (Actually we had a blazing row
online about it until I fixed most of the problems :-)) made it out....I
think I have the layouts somewhere....I'll try to dig them out sometime...

chrisc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Snow [mailto:psnow at magma.ca]
> Sent: 28 March 2002 22:18
> To: Arun Bohm
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Arun is a member.
> 
> 
> Arun,
> 
> Modulus is/was an online synth DIY magazine put out by Paul 
> Maddox from somewhere in the dark depths
> of the UK.
> There has not been a new release for a while now - pity 'cos 
> there was some good stuff in there. The
> last one was #8. They are all available at the URL Scott gave 
> in a previous email. Anyway, Paul
> hangs out on this list so I'm sure if you have questions he 
> will chime in.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Peter
>  
> 
> Arun Bohm wrote:
> > 
> > What is modulus? is this a publication? If so how would I 
> get a hold of a
> > subscription?
> > arun_bohm at hotmail.com
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> 

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in
error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the
information in any way, and notify me immediately.


From chris.crosskey at vicon.com  Fri Mar 29 11:46:18 2002
From: chris.crosskey at vicon.com (Chris Crosskey)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:46:18 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] ASM1 VCO
Message-ID: <609562B7721BD41187B400B0D0208560CD8525@FILESERV>

The Formant Pulse-saw waveshaper....OK so it's prolly not that, but it would
do it .....

chrisc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Randall [mailto:jorandal at vt.edu]
> Sent: 28 March 2002 23:49
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] ASM1 VCO
> 
> 
> I finally got the VCO for my ASM1 to work and am very excited.  When I
> hooked it up to my Oscope I got a waveform like the following:
> \          \          \
>  \          \          \
>   \          \          \
>    -------    --------   --------
> I get a line sloped down then it is flat then another downward voltage
> then flat.  Does anybody know what could cause the shape of 
> my wave to be
> off?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Sincerlly,
> 
> Josh Randall
> 

This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in
error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the
information in any way, and notify me immediately.


From pgrenader at mksound.com  Fri Mar 29 12:21:04 2002
From: pgrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:21:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] second request:  WTT for SSM2020
In-Reply-To: <3CA4C03B.6716FDDB@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B8C99C30.310D%pgrenader@mksound.com>

A great idea indeed....even if there were legions willing to chip in
however, the vote most needed would be the individuals who own the rights
and licences to these devices!

on 3/29/02 12:27 PM, Joe Kramer at musetrap at earthlink.net wrote:

> Dear Chris (and snthDIYers),
> Sorry to say I don't have any of the Curtis chips.  But there are companies
> that deal in IC fabrication on a custom basis (I don't know what the proper
> name
> of this business is).  Although it's expensive, and large minimum quantities
> are
> required, what if a lot of interested parties "chipped" in to have some of
> these
> discontinued parts made?  The dies (or whatever they use) must still be in
> existance somewhere.  Wouldn't it be fantastic to be able to have these things
> available again?  It certainly has happened in the audio tube world, why not
> with
> music synth ICs?  I'd certainly cast my lot for it.
> 
> Regards,
> Joe Kramer
> 
> Chris Stecker wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I don't want to clutter up your mailboxes, and I know 90++% of you have no
>> access to these chips, but I thought I'd post once more in case there's
>> someone out there.....
>> 
>> I need a few (4 at this point) SSM 2020 chips for my Buchla 296.  It's so
>> close to being done...  I'd really like to trade with someone in need of my
>> CEM chips (3350, 3360, 3320...) but will pay $$ if I must.  Thanks if you can
>> help.
>> 
>> -Chris
> 
> 
> 




From djmarmalade at planetp.org  Fri Mar 29 13:06:47 2002
From: djmarmalade at planetp.org (DJ Marmalade)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:06:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What's going on in the M12 filter circuit?
References: <58655394BA88D411803000508BDF35B8D6878E@magellan> <3.0.6.32.20020328215231.007cada0@hoohahrecords.com> <005301c1d701$cffeb580$e35769d5@st>
Message-ID: <03c401c1d71a$33e5bc20$3da2d03f@gretta>

Hi All,

Well, I tried to have this discussion on AH but it seems AH is more
interested in arguing with one another than discussing technical issues.

Playing the devils advocate, perhaps it's not worthy of discussion,
nevertheless, if you know what's going on, I'd appreciate some input, reply
privately if you don't think it should be on list.

In the M12 voice schematic, seen here :

http://www.planetp.org/xpvoice.jpg

The 3372 LPF is used as a multimode filter.  The circuit on the right
apparantly sums at different levels, the signals available from the filter
caps.

I'm interested to know what is going on here, why does this work?  I also
want to know if there is something unique about the 3372 or could this idea
be applied to any number of filter chips, say for example, the 2044?

Thanks
Daryl




From xmurz at gmx.de  Fri Mar 29 13:22:01 2002
From: xmurz at gmx.de (xmurz at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:22:01 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [sdiy] Again- LFO, working
Message-ID: <12760.1017404521@www42.gmx.net>

Hello!

The 2 LFO's I tried (ASM-1 and Modulus) were not working.

The Modulus e-zines can be found at:
http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com/modular/modular.htm
(as somebody asked for the address)

I now got the ASM-1 LFO to work nicely.
The problem was, that I had the non inverting opamp
on one TL082, and the inverting opamp on another TL082.
Now that I got both parts on one TL082 it works.
(Don't ask my, why I dit it with 2, to begin with.)

Now my question:
Why is it not working with 2 seperate opamps???

Then there is the 22R Resitor. I substituted a
trimmer for that part, because a 22R value caused
my LFO to go towards (aproximately) 10V + without
returning back down on the lowest LFO speed.

A trimmer enables me to get to poti down to very
low speed without going up to 10V+.
The trimmer will set be set to >22R

Is that normal???

Will all parts of the ASM-1 work on a +-12V PSU?

Regards,
  Hans

-- 
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 29 15:24:05 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:24:05 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Again- LFO, working
Message-ID: <F188bRkpiaLBFJ2EcRz0001d60a@hotmail.com>

No reason for it not to work with two packages. Might have some
probalem with how you disabled the unused sections... or what
ELSE those sections were used for. If you try it again... I usually
ground the unused non-inverting input... and tie the usused output to
the unused inverting input...

making a voltage follower with ground for an input. This is usually
a good way to tie unused opamps... with a few exceptions (that someone
else will fill in...)

H^) harry


>From: xmurz at gmx.de
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] Again- LFO, working
>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:22:01 +0100 (MET)
>
>Hello!
>
>The 2 LFO's I tried (ASM-1 and Modulus) were not working.
>
>The Modulus e-zines can be found at:
>http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com/modular/modular.htm
>(as somebody asked for the address)
>
>I now got the ASM-1 LFO to work nicely.
>The problem was, that I had the non inverting opamp
>on one TL082, and the inverting opamp on another TL082.
>Now that I got both parts on one TL082 it works.
>(Don't ask my, why I dit it with 2, to begin with.)
>
>Now my question:
>Why is it not working with 2 seperate opamps???
>
>Then there is the 22R Resitor. I substituted a
>trimmer for that part, because a 22R value caused
>my LFO to go towards (aproximately) 10V + without
>returning back down on the lowest LFO speed.
>
>A trimmer enables me to get to poti down to very
>low speed without going up to 10V+.
>The trimmer will set be set to >22R
>
>Is that normal???
>
>Will all parts of the ASM-1 work on a +-12V PSU?
>
>Regards,
>   Hans
>
>--
>GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
>http://www.gmx.net
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



From paia2720 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 29 15:26:53 2002
From: paia2720 at hotmail.com (Happy Harry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:26:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] What's going on in the M12 filter circuit?
Message-ID: <F137yIEe23eUCSojBVL00019590@hotmail.com>

There is some high powered math that says you can get almost any
filter response from summing these sections in the correct phase
and amplitude. The one tricky part is one filter section
is bypassed by making the capacitor way too small for it to be a
filter stage anymore...

You could use the 2040 as well... or probably the 2044. I have simulated 
these but not built.

H^) harry


>From: "DJ Marmalade" <djmarmalade at planetp.org>
>To: "Synth-DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: [sdiy] What's going on in the M12 filter circuit?
>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:06:47 -0500
>
>Hi All,
>
>Well, I tried to have this discussion on AH but it seems AH is more
>interested in arguing with one another than discussing technical issues.
>
>Playing the devils advocate, perhaps it's not worthy of discussion,
>nevertheless, if you know what's going on, I'd appreciate some input, reply
>privately if you don't think it should be on list.
>
>In the M12 voice schematic, seen here :
>
>http://www.planetp.org/xpvoice.jpg
>
>The 3372 LPF is used as a multimode filter.  The circuit on the right
>apparantly sums at different levels, the signals available from the filter
>caps.
>
>I'm interested to know what is going on here, why does this work?  I also
>want to know if there is something unique about the 3372 or could this idea
>be applied to any number of filter chips, say for example, the 2044?
>
>Thanks
>Daryl
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



From colin at colinfraser.com  Fri Mar 29 15:46:35 2002
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:46:35 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] What's going on in the M12 filter circuit?
References: <58655394BA88D411803000508BDF35B8D6878E@magellan> <3.0.6.32.20020328215231.007cada0@hoohahrecords.com> <005301c1d701$cffeb580$e35769d5@st> <03c401c1d71a$33e5bc20$3da2d03f@gretta>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d730$869924f0$0b30030a@scottishpower.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Marmalade" <djmarmalade at planetp.org>
To: "Synth-DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: [sdiy] What's going on in the M12 filter circuit?


> In the M12 voice schematic, seen here :
>
> http://www.planetp.org/xpvoice.jpg
>
> The 3372 LPF is used as a multimode filter.  The circuit on the right
> apparantly sums at different levels, the signals available from the filter
> caps.
>
> I'm interested to know what is going on here, why does this work?  I also
> want to know if there is something unique about the 3372 or could this
idea
> be applied to any number of filter chips, say for example, the 2044?

There's a very good explanation here -
http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Circuitry/Multi-Function%20VCF.htm

Colin f




From blacet at blacet.com  Fri Mar 29 17:14:32 2002
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:14:32 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Current Draw
References: <000e01c1d6c0$d0a6ecf0$5326e440@Sysyphus>
Message-ID: <3CA492E8.487925F1@blacet.com>

Typically, measure the power draw of each module with a DMM. You can
just use the plus power as the - side is typically the same or less.

Be carefull of the power rating of the supply. Is it rated for +500 mA
and -500 mA or just 500 mA TOTAL (250/250 mA)?

Regards,
___________________
John Blacet
Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com




From theroom at btinternet.com  Fri Mar 29 18:07:00 2002
From: theroom at btinternet.com (RJF)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:07:00 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Suggesting a site for Equipment software files (EPROM)
Message-ID: <5oC7llH08Jp8EwVs@btinternet.com>

Firstly, sorry if some of you have received more than one copy of this. 
It is not meant as Monty Pythons favourite meat, but I wanted to contact 
as many people as possible to try and make this idea work.

As many of us know, getting hold of the latest software for our 
keyboards, effects, etc., is nothing short of a nightmare. I have tried 
tracking down the files I need so I can upgrade my equipment with very 
little luck. As most of our stuff uses EPROM's to hold it's software it 
is easy to blow the chips (as long as you have the equipment!!).

I thought it would be a good idea to start a site dedicated to holding 
software files (and hopefully the last versions) so anyone can download 
them and upgrade their equipment to the last version released. Many 
items (Kawai K4 & Yamaha TX81z spring to mind) were not 100% until the 
last software upgrade.

This is an open request for any files you may have so the can be added 
to the collection. Please add the following information:

Version number
Type of EPROM used
IC location number on board (if possible) - especially when 2 are used 
(Hi & Lo).

To make this idea work requires some help from you guys. If no-one 
supplies anything, nothing can happen!

To start the ball rolling I have the following ready (Known to be last 
versions:

Yamaha TX802: V1.50
Yamaha TX81z: V1.60
Akai S1000: V4.40
Korg 01w: #62

This is just the start. I will read the EPROM's from the rest of my 
equipment and upload them when done. If updated versions appear they 
will be replaced.

The site is up (and basic at the moment) and I will post the address 
when I receive some files to make it worth while.

So, please help me make this work. Any Manufacturer 
(Alesis,Ensoniq,Emu,Korg etc...)

Thanks

-- 
Richard


From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Fri Mar 29 18:08:53 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:08:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] What's going on in the M12 filter circuit?
In-Reply-To: <03c401c1d71a$33e5bc20$3da2d03f@gretta>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291149250.21787-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, DJ Marmalade wrote:

> http://www.planetp.org/xpvoice.jpg
> 
> The 3372 LPF is used as a multimode filter.  The circuit on the right
> apparantly sums at different levels, the signals available from the filter
> caps.
> 
> I'm interested to know what is going on here, why does this work?  I also
> want to know if there is something unique about the 3372 or could this idea
> be applied to any number of filter chips, say for example, the 2044?

  The buffers (chips labeled UX13, UX15) are all summed into channels of a
4051 MUX, using different 'weightings' (the row of resistors groups
attached to each MUX channel input) for each cell output.  The 'even'
cells (cell 2 and cell 4 which taken from the VCF OUT) are
polarity-inverted so as to provide the necessary negative feedback to make
a given filter topology work properly.  These 'weighting' resistors each 
form part of a gain ratio with resistor RX66 and thus each filter pole 
can be stronger or weaker as required. I would actually call this a sort
of analog ROM where a filter type is selected based on the ABC address
inputs at the bottom of the 4051.

  Now, how the coefficient/weighting resistors were selected is the real 
key to this circuit.  I would suppose the numerical coefficients would 
show up in the math of each filter when when down in abstract form, but 
how these numbers were turned into resistor values--I don't know offhand.

  It might be possible with the 2044; I'll have a look at the datasheet.  
The only caveat is the 3372 also has two VCAs in it that would have to be 
made from OTAs or whatnot as well.

Crow
/**/



From cstecker at umich.edu  Fri Mar 29 18:14:06 2002
From: cstecker at umich.edu (Chris Stecker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:14:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] second request:  WTT for SSM2020
Message-ID: <200203291713.MAA15474@harumscarum.mr.itd.umich.edu>

Hi all, 

I don't want to clutter up your mailboxes, and I know 90++% of you have no 
access to these chips, but I thought I'd post once more in case there's 
someone out there.....

I need a few (4 at this point) SSM 2020 chips for my Buchla 296.  It's so 
close to being done...  I'd really like to trade with someone in need of my 
CEM chips (3350, 3360, 3320...) but will pay $$ if I must.  Thanks if you can 
help.

-Chris


From umberto_m at libero.it  Fri Mar 29 19:08:09 2002
From: umberto_m at libero.it (umpino)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:08:09 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <001501c1d74c$b2108d00$a093fea9@it>

unsubscribe



From umberto_m at libero.it  Fri Mar 29 19:15:27 2002
From: umberto_m at libero.it (umpino)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:15:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <005d01c1d74d$b6d2b380$a093fea9@it>

 unsubscribe
 



From djmarmalade at planetp.org  Fri Mar 29 19:35:42 2002
From: djmarmalade at planetp.org (DJ Marmalade)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:35:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What's going on in the M12 filter circuit?
References: <58655394BA88D411803000508BDF35B8D6878E@magellan> <3.0.6.32.20020328215231.007cada0@hoohahrecords.com> <005301c1d701$cffeb580$e35769d5@st> <03c401c1d71a$33e5bc20$3da2d03f@gretta> <000e01c1d730$869924f0$0b30030a@scottishpower.com>
Message-ID: <04e701c1d750$8891da20$3da2d03f@gretta>

> There's a very good explanation here -
> http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Circuitry/Multi-Function%20VCF.htm


Thanks for the info. I had this in my book but the last time I looked at it
I hadn't really tried to analyze the circuit, so I just pushed it aside.
So, from this I can extrapolate that the transfer functions for lowpass
filters. With a bit of effort I should be able to use the resistor values
and existing circuit to extrapolate functions for the other filter types. I
am clear on the cmos mux operation, that part of the circuit wasn't really
where my questions were. Nor do I care about other functions in the chip
such as VCAs or CV mixers.

Is it safe to assume that the very nature of filter circuits implies that
the cap connection for each pole provides an output from the pole?  If this
is true then I should be able to use ANY four pole lpf chip to build many
different varieties of filters.  Further, as I suspected, the resistor
values of the summing circuit are not unique to the 3372 but related to the
coefficients of each pole and would be the same, at least in relation to
each other, with ANY 4pole lpf chip?

Thanks
Daryl



From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Fri Mar 29 19:42:28 2002
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:42:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] What's going on in the M12 filter circuit?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d730$869924f0$0b30030a@scottishpower.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291338170.21787-100000@crowsnest.oldcrows.net>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Colin Fraser wrote:

> There's a very good explanation here -
> http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Circuitry/Multi-Function%20VCF.htm

  Thats the transfer function I was looking for!  (Shudders at terrible
memories of Math 118 in college 20 years ago..LaPlace transforms...
convolution... arrgh!)

Crow
http://www.cs80.com/
/**/



From musetrap at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 20:03:33 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:03:33 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Current Draw
References: <000e01c1d6c0$d0a6ecf0$5326e440@Sysyphus>
Message-ID: <3CA4BA84.B88EBC18@earthlink.net>

Dear David,
    Set your DMM for "milliamps" and plug the leads into the correct
jacks.  Place the DMM between (in series with) the plus power connection
on the board and the plus power source, and connect ground as usual.
Power up the module.  The current draw of the module should appear.  If
it's a bipolar supply, it wouldn't hurt to check the negative rail too.
Also be sure to take an output signal from the module and twiddle the
knobs.  Some circuits can draw much more power when put to work.  I might
add that 500mA  seems a little low right off the bat.  Wouldn't you want
power to spare in case you add modules?  I'd shoot for at least an amp, if
not two, but this may be overkill.

Regards,
Joe Kramer


David Reichert wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm building a modular system with a power supply with a maximum power
> output of 500 mA.
>
> Does anyone know how I can figure out the how much current each module
> will use so that I don't go over?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave





From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 20:19:07 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:19:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Multi Segment Envelope Generator
In-Reply-To: <3CA400E7.CFCD2B69@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <20020329191907.48479.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>

Jim,

This is an interesting circuit. It is similar to an
ADSR I tried to make. Basically a 4-segment version of
yours. From the schematic, it looks like this is an
exponential generator meant for a linear VCO. Yes? If
so, it looks pretty easy to make it linear.

I had a lot of trouble with the comparators on the
version I tried. They tended to oscillate from noise
when the inputs were near each other. This caused the
logic to go nuts. I never went back to see if I could
fix it.

Keep on truckin', and keep us informed!

--TR

--- patchell <patchell at silcom.com> wrote:
>     Here is another one I am working on.  The
> schematic is prelim, and
> probably has some errors in it.  I just got done
> fixing a few more...you
> are welcome to tell me about any others, if you spot
> them.
> 
>    
>
http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/synthmodules/multisegenv.html
> 
> --
>  -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a
> year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From musetrap at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 29 20:27:55 2002
From: musetrap at earthlink.net (Joe Kramer)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:27:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] second request:  WTT for SSM2020
References: <200203291713.MAA15474@harumscarum.mr.itd.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA4C03B.6716FDDB@earthlink.net>

Dear Chris (and snthDIYers),
    Sorry to say I don't have any of the Curtis chips.  But there are companies
that deal in IC fabrication on a custom basis (I don't know what the proper name
of this business is).  Although it's expensive, and large minimum quantities are
required, what if a lot of interested parties "chipped" in to have some of these
discontinued parts made?  The dies (or whatever they use) must still be in
existance somewhere.  Wouldn't it be fantastic to be able to have these things
available again?  It certainly has happened in the audio tube world, why not with
music synth ICs?  I'd certainly cast my lot for it.

Regards,
Joe Kramer

Chris Stecker wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I don't want to clutter up your mailboxes, and I know 90++% of you have no
> access to these chips, but I thought I'd post once more in case there's
> someone out there.....
>
> I need a few (4 at this point) SSM 2020 chips for my Buchla 296.  It's so
> close to being done...  I'd really like to trade with someone in need of my
> CEM chips (3350, 3360, 3320...) but will pay $$ if I must.  Thanks if you can
> help.
>
> -Chris





From patchell at silcom.com  Fri Mar 29 22:13:25 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:13:25 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Multi Segment Envelope Generator
References: <20020329191907.48479.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4D8F5.6EBEB68@silcom.com>

    The heart of the circuit is actually just a "glide" (U2A,U3A).  The
glide rate has an exponential control on it (Q1,Q2).  The reset of the
circuit is more or less just an 8x2 sequencer.  One channel controls the
glide rate, the other controls the level it glides to.  When the glide
level is equal to the glide output, it goes to the next step.  All of
this, is of course, controlled by the logic.

    The logic could probably actually fit inside of a single 22v10.  The
problem I have with doing this is I have found the newer pld's to be
less than rugged.  The logic could also probably be done with a PIC or
AVR...but, I am too lazy.

    As far as the comparators oscilating...that is one reason I just
used regular opamps as the comparators.  Less bandwidth.  I used a
similar comparator on my 8x2 analog sequencer and it seemed to work
pretty good.

Tim Ressel wrote:

> Jim,
>
> This is an interesting circuit. It is similar to an
> ADSR I tried to make. Basically a 4-segment version of
> yours. From the schematic, it looks like this is an
> exponential generator meant for a linear VCO. Yes? If
> so, it looks pretty easy to make it linear.
>
> I had a lot of trouble with the comparators on the
> version I tried. They tended to oscillate from noise
> when the inputs were near each other. This caused the
> logic to go nuts. I never went back to see if I could
> fix it.
>
> Keep on truckin', and keep us informed!
>
> --TR
>

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From t.hogers at home.nl  Fri Mar 29 22:23:10 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:23:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] second request:  WTT for SSM2020
References: <B8C99C30.310D%pgrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <000701c1d767$edd13a40$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

There are some companies that sell SSM2020 (and other CEM/SSM) online.
Just use Google or something.
As long the price for NOS parts lays below $100, getting a custom run would
not be economical.

Think the SSM2020 was just a dual VCA.
Maybe you could just change to a more common VCA IC and get over it.

Theo



From: Peter Grenader <pgrenader at mksound.com>

> A great idea indeed....even if there were legions willing to chip in
> however, the vote most needed would be the individuals who own the rights
> and licences to these devices!
>
> on 3/29/02 12:27 PM, Joe Kramer at musetrap at earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > Dear Chris (and snthDIYers),
> > Sorry to say I don't have any of the Curtis chips.  But there are
companies
> > that deal in IC fabrication on a custom basis (I don't know what the
proper
> > name
> > of this business is).  Although it's expensive, and large minimum
quantities
> > are
> > required, what if a lot of interested parties "chipped" in to have some
of
> > these
> > discontinued parts made?  The dies (or whatever they use) must still be
in
> > existance somewhere.  Wouldn't it be fantastic to be able to have these
things
> > available again?  It certainly has happened in the audio tube world, why
not
> > with
> > music synth ICs?  I'd certainly cast my lot for it.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Joe Kramer
> >
> > Chris Stecker wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I don't want to clutter up your mailboxes, and I know 90++% of you have
no
> >> access to these chips, but I thought I'd post once more in case there's
> >> someone out there.....
> >>
> >> I need a few (4 at this point) SSM 2020 chips for my Buchla 296.  It's
so
> >> close to being done...  I'd really like to trade with someone in need
of my
> >> CEM chips (3350, 3360, 3320...) but will pay $$ if I must.  Thanks if
you can
> >> help.
> >>
> >> -Chris
> >
> >
> >
>
>



From sbernardi at attbi.com  Sat Mar 30 00:27:46 2002
From: sbernardi at attbi.com (Scott Bernardi)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:27:46 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Reverse audio taper pots found
References: <001101c1d6e9$29639280$59492bd1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3CA4F872.FF24EB94@attbi.com>

If you are using it as an attenuator (ie, all 3 pins), you can FAKE a reverse
log pot with a dual linear pot.  Works good for filter Q controls. See
http://home.attbi.com/~sbernardi/elec/og2/partsub_pots.html, section on "Square
Law Attenuators".

"J. Larry Hendry" wrote:

> Seems like someone was looking for these reverse audio taper pots not too
> long ago.  I was scanning the newest MECI catalog and they have one listed
> as:  10K reverse audio taper.  It has the smaller 1/8" diameter shaft.  Part
> # 450-0242.  If you are interested, you can check it out at their web site.
> Larry H

--
Scott Bernardi
sbernardi at attbi.com




From cfmd at swipnet.se  Sat Mar 30 01:27:56 2002
From: cfmd at swipnet.se (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:27:56 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Reverse audio taper pots found
In-Reply-To: <3CA4F872.FF24EB94@attbi.com>
References: <001101c1d6e9$29639280$59492bd1@oemcomputer>
	<3CA4F872.FF24EB94@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20020330.012756.115907781.cfmd@swipnet.se>

From: Scott Bernardi <sbernardi at attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Reverse audio taper pots found
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:27:46 -0800

> If you are using it as an attenuator (ie, all 3 pins), you can FAKE a reverse
> log pot with a dual linear pot.  Works good for filter Q controls. See
> http://home.attbi.com/~sbernardi/elec/og2/partsub_pots.html, section on "Square
> Law Attenuators".

I've allways known that it should be possible. Never tried if it works
WELL, which is an entierly different matter.

Actually, it is not even the reversed log you are after, it just
"fits" what you are out for.

In the end, experience will tell if it works well for the application
at hand, a filter Q value in this case.

The trick of loading a pot (as seen above for instance) is also of
nice help. Maybe some day I make a bunch of simulations and put up,
until then, test the hell out and see what works and report back ;O)

Cheers,
Magnus


From rrowley at btinternet.com  Sat Mar 30 03:26:44 2002
From: rrowley at btinternet.com (RichR)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:26:44 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <001c01c1d792$56922560$d26301d5@g2a6n6>

unsubscribe
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020329/33be8029/attachment.htm>

From jslandau at engin.umich.edu  Sat Mar 30 05:37:43 2002
From: jslandau at engin.umich.edu (Josh Landau)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:37:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020329233621.00b24fb0@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>

I'm having a hard time finding MIDI jacks to order... tried ordering from 
Digikey, wound up with the wrong size of MIDI jacks, so...

If anyone has a good supplier, or even better, a Digikey/Mouser part 
number, it'd be greatly appreciated.  I'd rather not order again and have 
the wrong size come in.

Josh



From frankentron at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 30 07:47:00 2002
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:47:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Multi Segment Envelope Generator
Message-ID: <F133HydswcSBsfnof730001f277@hotmail.com>

when I was performing experiments for my rate level EG I used an LF351 for 
the comparator and found it to be quite stable even without hysteresis.

~M


>From: patchell <patchell at silcom.com>
>To: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
>CC: "synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Multi Segment Envelope Generator
>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:13:25 -0800
>
>     The heart of the circuit is actually just a "glide" (U2A,U3A).  The
>glide rate has an exponential control on it (Q1,Q2).  The reset of the
>circuit is more or less just an 8x2 sequencer.  One channel controls the
>glide rate, the other controls the level it glides to.  When the glide
>level is equal to the glide output, it goes to the next step.  All of
>this, is of course, controlled by the logic.
>
>     The logic could probably actually fit inside of a single 22v10.  The
>problem I have with doing this is I have found the newer pld's to be
>less than rugged.  The logic could also probably be done with a PIC or
>AVR...but, I am too lazy.
>
>     As far as the comparators oscilating...that is one reason I just
>used regular opamps as the comparators.  Less bandwidth.  I used a
>similar comparator on my 8x2 analog sequencer and it seemed to work
>pretty good.
>
>Tim Ressel wrote:
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > This is an interesting circuit. It is similar to an
> > ADSR I tried to make. Basically a 4-segment version of
> > yours. From the schematic, it looks like this is an
> > exponential generator meant for a linear VCO. Yes? If
> > so, it looks pretty easy to make it linear.
> >
> > I had a lot of trouble with the comparators on the
> > version I tried. They tended to oscillate from noise
> > when the inputs were near each other. This caused the
> > logic to go nuts. I never went back to see if I could
> > fix it.
> >
> > Keep on truckin', and keep us informed!
> >
> > --TR
> >
>
>--
>  -Jim
>------------------------------------------------
>* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
>*-----------------------------------------------
>*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
>* -Yogi Yorgensen
>------------------------------------------------
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



From rob at arachnoids.org  Sat Mar 30 08:33:08 2002
From: rob at arachnoids.org (Rob Mantel)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:33:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020329233621.00b24fb0@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <001301c1d7bd$2474a6e0$0500a8c0@atrexh.com>

Not cheap, but very nice is Allied (http://www.alliedelec.com) part#
246-7043.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Landau" <jslandau at engin.umich.edu>
To: "synth-DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 11:37 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks


> I'm having a hard time finding MIDI jacks to order... tried ordering from
> Digikey, wound up with the wrong size of MIDI jacks, so...
>
> If anyone has a good supplier, or even better, a Digikey/Mouser part
> number, it'd be greatly appreciated.  I'd rather not order again and have
> the wrong size come in.
>
> Josh
>



From xmurz at gmx.de  Sat Mar 30 09:26:04 2002
From: xmurz at gmx.de (xmurz at gmx.de)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:26:04 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [sdiy] Again- LFO, working
References: <F188bRkpiaLBFJ2EcRz0001d60a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <26357.1017476764@www11.gmx.net>

> No reason for it not to work with two packages. Might have some
> probalem with how you disabled the unused sections... or what
> ELSE those sections were used for. If you try it again... I usually
> ground the unused non-inverting input... and tie the usused output to
> the unused inverting input...

I had the unused section disconnected. (so I guess it was "floating")
When I touched the input-pins of the opamp, it would pick up
the static of my hand and amplify it. When I disconnected the
-12 V power, and held this pin with my hand, it would start to
oscillate. (but with a distorted wavform) 
I think this was due to the "floating" pins of the unused section.
Hmmm, and those 2 sections are not really seperate units,
as they share "parts".. transistors. (I should have thought about this
fact beforehand)


> 
> making a voltage follower with ground for an input. This is usually
> a good way to tie unused opamps... with a few exceptions (that someone
> else will fill in...)

Good advice!

Regards,
  Hans

> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 
> >From: xmurz at gmx.de
> >To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >Subject: [sdiy] Again- LFO, working
> >Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:22:01 +0100 (MET)
> >
> >Hello!
> >
> >The 2 LFO's I tried (ASM-1 and Modulus) were not working.
> >
> >The Modulus e-zines can be found at:
> >http://www.modulus.wavesynth.com/modular/modular.htm
> >(as somebody asked for the address)
> >
> >I now got the ASM-1 LFO to work nicely.
> >The problem was, that I had the non inverting opamp
> >on one TL082, and the inverting opamp on another TL082.
> >Now that I got both parts on one TL082 it works.
> >(Don't ask my, why I dit it with 2, to begin with.)
> >
> >Now my question:
> >Why is it not working with 2 seperate opamps???
> >
> >Then there is the 22R Resitor. I substituted a
> >trimmer for that part, because a 22R value caused
> >my LFO to go towards (aproximately) 10V + without
> >returning back down on the lowest LFO speed.
> >
> >A trimmer enables me to get to poti down to very
> >low speed without going up to 10V+.
> >The trimmer will set be set to >22R
> >
> >Is that normal???
> >
> >Will all parts of the ASM-1 work on a +-12V PSU?
> >
> >Regards,
> >   Hans

-- 
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net



From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Sat Mar 30 13:43:29 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:43:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020329233621.00b24fb0@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <3CA5B2F1.57254B77@verizon.net>


I think midi jacks only come in one size.  You need a DIN-5 jack
right?  as long as you don't get a mini-DIN, you should be okay.. what
do you mean by size?  Actual physical size of the casing, or
size/distancing of the pins?

I think I got mine from mouser, radioshack.com has them too

Radioshack.com part numbers:
910-4034
910-4035
910-4036

hrmm.. I guess I don't know what the difference is actually.  180,
240, 360 degree pin angles.  looks like 180 is right, but I don't know
now.. hah.. I ordered the right ones though!

-ben


From synthusiast at gmx.net  Sat Mar 30 14:40:54 2002
From: synthusiast at gmx.net (Synthusiast)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:40:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020329233621.00b24fb0@srvr5.engin.umich.edu> <3CA5B2F1.57254B77@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <002e01c1d7f0$856f6ec0$0100000a@M>

> 
> I think midi jacks only come in one size.  You need a DIN-5 jack
> right?  as long as you don't get a mini-DIN, you should be okay.. what
> do you mean by size?  Actual physical size of the casing, or
> size/distancing of the pins?
> 
> I think I got mine from mouser, radioshack.com has them too
> 
> Radioshack.com part numbers:
> 910-4034
> 910-4035
> 910-4036
> 
> hrmm.. I guess I don't know what the difference is actually.  180,
> 240, 360 degree pin angles.  looks like 180 is right, but I don't know
> now.. hah.. I ordered the right ones though!

That's correct: a MIDI jack is a 5-pin, 180 degrees angled, DIN plug.

Cheers,
Martijn



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sat Mar 30 16:52:19 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:52:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020329233621.00b24fb0@srvr5.engin.umich.edu> <3CA5B2F1.57254B77@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <001901c1d802$e0785040$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

180 degrees.
Mouser, 161-0005

----- Original Message -----
From: Chromatest Pantsmaker <chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net>
To: Josh Landau <jslandau at engin.umich.edu>; Synth DIY
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks


>
> I think midi jacks only come in one size.  You need a DIN-5 jack
> right?  as long as you don't get a mini-DIN, you should be okay.. what
> do you mean by size?  Actual physical size of the casing, or
> size/distancing of the pins?
>
> I think I got mine from mouser, radioshack.com has them too
>
> Radioshack.com part numbers:
> 910-4034
> 910-4035
> 910-4036
>
> hrmm.. I guess I don't know what the difference is actually.  180,
> 240, 360 degree pin angles.  looks like 180 is right, but I don't know
> now.. hah.. I ordered the right ones though!
>
> -ben



From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Mar 30 16:59:44 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:59:44 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020329233621.00b24fb0@srvr5.engin.umich.edu> <3CA5B2F1.57254B77@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5E0F0.39A636B3@silcom.com>



Chromatest Pantsmaker wrote:

> I think midi jacks only come in one size.  You need a DIN-5 jack
> right?  as long as you don't get a mini-DIN, you should be okay.. what
> do you mean by size?  Actual physical size of the casing, or
> size/distancing of the pins?
>
> I think I got mine from mouser, radioshack.com has them too
>
> Radioshack.com part numbers:
> 910-4034
> 910-4035
> 910-4036
>
> hrmm.. I guess I don't know what the difference is actually.  180,
> 240, 360 degree pin angles.  looks like 180 is right, but I don't know
> now.. hah.. I ordered the right ones though!
>
> -ben

    180 degrees is the correct one....I made the mistake once of getting
the 270 degree parts.
--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From patchell at silcom.com  Sat Mar 30 17:08:55 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:08:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] midi keyboard proyect troubleshooting!!
References: <01c1c3b7$3bce6ca0$LocalHost@wefwf>
Message-ID: <3CA5E317.CA0E656A@silcom.com>

        Welcome to the wonderful world of Embedded System Programming!
:-)

    If the part can be programmed, chances are pretty good it is still
working.  Depending on which PIC you are using, this can be easily
checked.  If you have a FLASH part, just reprogram it.  If you have an
OTP, this is sort of like testing matches.

    Chances are very good that the problem is in your code.  Writing
code for micro controllers is particuarily difficult since you don't
really have any way of finding out what is going on inside.  You have to
be very clever.  I find it useful to bring the code up a little bit at a
time.  I generally start of with just making an LED flash, just to make
sure I am really writing code that works.

    But I will tell you, it can be done.  So far, I have never purchased
any expensive tools for doing micro controllers (such as emulators),
although, I haven't done all that much with them either.  Using the
flash programable parts, however, is a real must.  Being able to
reprogram the same part over and over again quickly really helps speed
up the developement cycle.

Cristian Mardones wrote:

>   hi all, im building a midi keyboard proyect using pic
> microcontrolers , and im having
> problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> hehe , it is the first microcontroler stuff i made.... and i dont know
> whats the deal...
>
>
> since i made it in a protoboard ,could ive damage it with the static
> trougth the other components?
>
> can the pic be testted somehow?? (without a ociloscope)
>
> thats it..
>
>

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 18:46:30 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020329233621.00b24fb0@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <20020330174630.19305.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com>

Josh,

I just ordered panel mount jacks from Mouser #
568-NYS325. They are quite nice Neutrik connectors.
Paid $0.48 each for 10.

--TR

--- Josh Landau <jslandau at engin.umich.edu> wrote:
> I'm having a hard time finding MIDI jacks to
> order... tried ordering from 
> Digikey, wound up with the wrong size of MIDI jacks,
> so...
> 
> If anyone has a good supplier, or even better, a
> Digikey/Mouser part 
> number, it'd be greatly appreciated.  I'd rather not
> order again and have 
> the wrong size come in.
> 
> Josh
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From grichter at asapnet.net  Sat Mar 30 19:14:17 2002
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:14:17 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Multi Segment Envelope Generator
In-Reply-To: <3CA4D8F5.6EBEB68@silcom.com>
Message-ID: <B8CB5C99.384BA%grichter@asapnet.net>

For those with a Mini-Wave and Socket Rocket chip, the "MARF Discriminator"
bank is this type of window comparator with an adjustable threshold from
+/-40 millivolts to +/- 660 millivolts.

You can use other synth modules to "patch up" a multi-section envelope
generator from a sequencer.

The MARF part is actually a misnomer, the real Buchla MARF used a linear
ramp from the clock to control complementary PWM circuits. The linear ramp
sections were generated by averaging the output of the current and next
stage by PWM crossfading.

The basic circuit idea for a PWM crossfader can be seen at:

http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Buchla/buchla_model_257.htm

and corresponds to the M and M not terms.

> From: patchell <patchell at silcom.com>
> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:13:25 -0800
> To: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Multi Segment Envelope Generator
> 
> The heart of the circuit is actually just a "glide" (U2A,U3A).  The
> glide rate has an exponential control on it (Q1,Q2).  The reset of the
> circuit is more or less just an 8x2 sequencer.  One channel controls the
> glide rate, the other controls the level it glides to.  When the glide
> level is equal to the glide output, it goes to the next step.  All of
> this, is of course, controlled by the logic.
> 
> The logic could probably actually fit inside of a single 22v10.  The
> problem I have with doing this is I have found the newer pld's to be
> less than rugged.  The logic could also probably be done with a PIC or
> AVR...but, I am too lazy.
> 
> As far as the comparators oscilating...that is one reason I just
> used regular opamps as the comparators.  Less bandwidth.  I used a
> similar comparator on my 8x2 analog sequencer and it seemed to work
> pretty good.
> 
> Tim Ressel wrote:
> 
>> Jim,
>> 
>> This is an interesting circuit. It is similar to an
>> ADSR I tried to make. Basically a 4-segment version of
>> yours. From the schematic, it looks like this is an
>> exponential generator meant for a linear VCO. Yes? If
>> so, it looks pretty easy to make it linear.
>> 
>> I had a lot of trouble with the comparators on the
>> version I tried. They tended to oscillate from noise
>> when the inputs were near each other. This caused the
>> logic to go nuts. I never went back to see if I could
>> fix it.
>> 
>> Keep on truckin', and keep us informed!
>> 
>> --TR
>> 
> 
> --
> -Jim
> ------------------------------------------------
> * Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> *-----------------------------------------------
> *I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
> * -Yogi Yorgensen
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 30 19:36:34 2002
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:36:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020329233621.00b24fb0@srvr5.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330113508.00a5da20@mail.earthlink.net>

One more source --

All Electronics Corp.
Cat# DIN-5C

   Ian


At 09:37 PM 3/29/2002, Josh Landau wrote:
>I'm having a hard time finding MIDI jacks to order... tried ordering from 
>Digikey, wound up with the wrong size of MIDI jacks, so...
>
>If anyone has a good supplier, or even better, a Digikey/Mouser part 
>number, it'd be greatly appreciated.  I'd rather not order again and have 
>the wrong size come in.
>
>Josh



From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Sat Mar 30 21:09:25 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:09:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Ordering MIDI jacks
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020329233621.00b24fb0@srvr5.engin.umich.edu> <3CA5B2F1.57254B77@verizon.net> <002e01c1d7f0$856f6ec0$0100000a@M>
Message-ID: <3CA61B75.9A8F8770@verizon.net>


so to recap, with the correct information only:
they are 70 cents each at Radioshack 63 cents after 10 (buy 9, get one
free!)

Chromatest Wrote:
> > Radioshack.com part number:
> > 910-4034

Martijn Wrote:
> That's correct: a MIDI jack is a 5-pin, 180 degrees angled, DIN plug.


From jamos at technotoys.com  Sun Mar 31 00:22:15 2002
From: jamos at technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:22:15 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Mikado: A DIY Analog Sequencing System
Message-ID: <200203301522150620.1997B77C@161.58.178.202>

You-all may remember that a few months ago, I was whining about my
difficulty in locating a sequencer that suits my artistic needs <sniff>.
Well, I have the solution. For the past couple of months, Jim Patchell and
I have been working out the design for this sequencer, and we (hell, let's
be frank: the other Jim is doing all the work) have just reached the point
were circuit design and front-panel layout are nearly complete.

I've put together a Web site describing the project, at
http://www.technotoys.com/mikado. Your comments are invited!

>From my perspective, I have a special plea for anyone familiar with the
Schaeffer Frontplatten system: if you see any impracticalities in this
panel, please let me know. In particular, I have several places where
engraved lines overlap drilled holes.. mostly due to my laziness and use of
a grid for layout. All other comments are of course welcome.

Special thanks to Paul Perry for suggesting this route.

And I bet nobody can guess where the name Mikado comes from (hint: not the
Emperor of Japan).

Jim Johnson 
Metaphoric Software
-------------------
Makers of Techno Toys
Software for Electronic Music
http://www.technotoys.com
info at technotoys.com




From esresource at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 00:42:01 2002
From: esresource at earthlink.net (Scott Evans, Gen Mgr)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:42:01 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Mikado: A DIY Analog Sequencing System
References: <200203301522150620.1997B77C@161.58.178.202>
Message-ID: <3CA64D49.E37294E4@earthlink.net>

Mikado Locomotive was a 2-8-2 wheel arrangement. But it. also, was named
for the Japanese Mikado, as they were the first to order this wheel
arrangement in a steam locomotive.

Scott Evans

Jim Johnson wrote:
> 
> You-all may remember that a few months ago, I was whining about my
> difficulty in locating a sequencer that suits my artistic needs <sniff>.
> Well, I have the solution. For the past couple of months, Jim Patchell and
> I have been working out the design for this sequencer, and we (hell, let's
> be frank: the other Jim is doing all the work) have just reached the point
> were circuit design and front-panel layout are nearly complete.
> 
> I've put together a Web site describing the project, at
> http://www.technotoys.com/mikado. Your comments are invited!
> 
> >From my perspective, I have a special plea for anyone familiar with the
> Schaeffer Frontplatten system: if you see any impracticalities in this
> panel, please let me know. In particular, I have several places where
> engraved lines overlap drilled holes.. mostly due to my laziness and use of
> a grid for layout. All other comments are of course welcome.
> 
> Special thanks to Paul Perry for suggesting this route.
> 
> And I bet nobody can guess where the name Mikado comes from (hint: not the
> Emperor of Japan).
> 
> Jim Johnson
> Metaphoric Software
> -------------------
> Makers of Techno Toys
> Software for Electronic Music
> http://www.technotoys.com
> info at technotoys.com



From esresource at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 00:46:55 2002
From: esresource at earthlink.net (Scott Evans, Gen Mgr)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:46:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Mikado: A DIY Analog Sequencing System
References: <200203301522150620.1997B77C@161.58.178.202>
Message-ID: <3CA64E6F.6AB91FDF@earthlink.net>

Looks interesting, but several of the links to images have the slashes
going the wrong way, hence the image does not load to the page.

Scott

Jim Johnson wrote:
> 
> You-all may remember that a few months ago, I was whining about my
> difficulty in locating a sequencer that suits my artistic needs <sniff>.
> Well, I have the solution. For the past couple of months, Jim Patchell and
> I have been working out the design for this sequencer, and we (hell, let's
> be frank: the other Jim is doing all the work) have just reached the point
> were circuit design and front-panel layout are nearly complete.
> 
> I've put together a Web site describing the project, at
> http://www.technotoys.com/mikado. Your comments are invited!
> 
> >From my perspective, I have a special plea for anyone familiar with the
> Schaeffer Frontplatten system: if you see any impracticalities in this
> panel, please let me know. In particular, I have several places where
> engraved lines overlap drilled holes.. mostly due to my laziness and use of
> a grid for layout. All other comments are of course welcome.
> 
> Special thanks to Paul Perry for suggesting this route.
> 
> And I bet nobody can guess where the name Mikado comes from (hint: not the
> Emperor of Japan).
> 
> Jim Johnson
> Metaphoric Software
> -------------------
> Makers of Techno Toys
> Software for Electronic Music
> http://www.technotoys.com
> info at technotoys.com


From jamos at technotoys.com  Sun Mar 31 01:25:24 2002
From: jamos at technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:25:24 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Mikado: A DIY Analog Sequencing System
In-Reply-To: <3CA64D49.E37294E4@earthlink.net>
References: <200203301522150620.1997B77C@161.58.178.202>
 <3CA64D49.E37294E4@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200203301625240600.19D18A78@161.58.178.202>

>Mikado Locomotive was a 2-8-2 wheel arrangement. But it. also, was named
>for the Japanese Mikado, as they were the first to order this wheel
>arrangement in a steam locomotive.

That's the last time I underestimate the Synth-DIY group's grasp of
esoteric trivia!

Jim

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/30/02 at 3:42 PM Scott Evans, Gen Mgr wrote:

>Mikado Locomotive was a 2-8-2 wheel arrangement. But it. also, was named
>for the Japanese Mikado, as they were the first to order this wheel
>arrangement in a steam locomotive.
>
>Scott Evans
>
>Jim Johnson wrote:
>> 
>> You-all may remember that a few months ago, I was whining about my
>> difficulty in locating a sequencer that suits my artistic needs <sniff>.
>> Well, I have the solution. For the past couple of months, Jim Patchell
>and
>> I have been working out the design for this sequencer, and we (hell,
>let's
>> be frank: the other Jim is doing all the work) have just reached the
>point
>> were circuit design and front-panel layout are nearly complete.
>> 
>> I've put together a Web site describing the project, at
>> http://www.technotoys.com/mikado. Your comments are invited!
>> 
>> >From my perspective, I have a special plea for anyone familiar with the
>> Schaeffer Frontplatten system: if you see any impracticalities in this
>> panel, please let me know. In particular, I have several places where
>> engraved lines overlap drilled holes.. mostly due to my laziness and use
>of
>> a grid for layout. All other comments are of course welcome.
>> 
>> Special thanks to Paul Perry for suggesting this route.
>> 
>> And I bet nobody can guess where the name Mikado comes from (hint: not
>the
>> Emperor of Japan).
>> 
>> Jim Johnson
>> Metaphoric Software
>> -------------------
>> Makers of Techno Toys
>> Software for Electronic Music
>> http://www.technotoys.com
>> info at technotoys.com


Jim Johnson 
Metaphoric Software
-------------------
Makers of Techno Toys
Software for Electronic Music
http://www.technotoys.com
info at technotoys.com




From jamos at technotoys.com  Sun Mar 31 01:25:25 2002
From: jamos at technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:25:25 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Mikado: A DIY Analog Sequencing System
In-Reply-To: <3CA64E6F.6AB91FDF@earthlink.net>
References: <200203301522150620.1997B77C@161.58.178.202>
 <3CA64E6F.6AB91FDF@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200203301625250750.19D18EEC@161.58.178.202>

>Looks interesting, but several of the links to images have the slashes
>going the wrong way, hence the image does not load to the page.

Oops, damn Microsoft-centric me. Fixed now - thanks.

Jim

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/30/02 at 3:46 PM Scott Evans, Gen Mgr wrote:

>Looks interesting, but several of the links to images have the slashes
>going the wrong way, hence the image does not load to the page.
>
>Scott
>
>Jim Johnson wrote:
>> 
>> You-all may remember that a few months ago, I was whining about my
>> difficulty in locating a sequencer that suits my artistic needs <sniff>.
>> Well, I have the solution. For the past couple of months, Jim Patchell
>and
>> I have been working out the design for this sequencer, and we (hell,
>let's
>> be frank: the other Jim is doing all the work) have just reached the
>point
>> were circuit design and front-panel layout are nearly complete.
>> 
>> I've put together a Web site describing the project, at
>> http://www.technotoys.com/mikado. Your comments are invited!
>> 
>> >From my perspective, I have a special plea for anyone familiar with the
>> Schaeffer Frontplatten system: if you see any impracticalities in this
>> panel, please let me know. In particular, I have several places where
>> engraved lines overlap drilled holes.. mostly due to my laziness and use
>of
>> a grid for layout. All other comments are of course welcome.
>> 
>> Special thanks to Paul Perry for suggesting this route.
>> 
>> And I bet nobody can guess where the name Mikado comes from (hint: not
>the
>> Emperor of Japan).
>> 
>> Jim Johnson
>> Metaphoric Software
>> -------------------
>> Makers of Techno Toys
>> Software for Electronic Music
>> http://www.technotoys.com
>> info at technotoys.com


Jim Johnson 
Metaphoric Software
-------------------
Makers of Techno Toys
Software for Electronic Music
http://www.technotoys.com
info at technotoys.com




From toothpick_77 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 31 03:14:14 2002
From: toothpick_77 at hotmail.com (Jimmy Gogas)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:14:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Output circuit
Message-ID: <F30d89m0Z5Qaa4mdcUT000037a2@hotmail.com>

Hey guys,

after the synth is all done, with what do you output the sound? Is it just a 
speaker with a resistor, or is it something more complex? If it's only a 
speaker, is there anyone you guys suggest? If not, does anyone have a simple 
circuit they can show me?

Thank you in advance.



_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



From bahi0387 at terra.com.br  Sun Mar 31 03:26:43 2002
From: bahi0387 at terra.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:26:43 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Output circuit
References: <F30d89m0Z5Qaa4mdcUT000037a2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA665D3.D7616985@terra.com.br>

Hi,

You need to plug it into an audio amplifier with good speakers!

Edu Silva
http://audiolist.cjb.net


Jimmy Gogas wrote:
> 
> after the synth is all done, with what do you output the sound?


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar 31 03:29:34 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:29:34 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Output circuit
References: <F30d89m0Z5Qaa4mdcUT000037a2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6667E.AF41945D@prodigy.net>

Usually you want to use some amplifier / speaker arrangement.  I use a
music PA system and just feed it into the mixer.  If you use a home stereo amp
etc... I usually use a 10:1 resistive divider to get the signal levels way down.

Most synths would fry a home stereo easily.

WATCH out for very low and very high frequencies. You might want to have
a series capacitor with the synth output... to limit the possibility of DC which
kills
woofers... and some shunt cap at the output to limit ultrasonic signals... which
kill
tweeters...

Some headphones can drive from a synth output with just a series resistor...

H^) harry

Jimmy Gogas wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> after the synth is all done, with what do you output the sound? Is it just a
> speaker with a resistor, or is it something more complex? If it's only a
> speaker, is there anyone you guys suggest? If not, does anyone have a simple
> circuit they can show me?
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From bahi0387 at terra.com.br  Sun Mar 31 04:17:27 2002
From: bahi0387 at terra.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:17:27 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Output circuit
References: <F30d89m0Z5Qaa4mdcUT000037a2@hotmail.com> <3CA6667E.AF41945D@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <3CA671B7.A4A40CB2@terra.com.br>

Hi, all

Just don't use guitar amps, as I?ve seen many times. Too bad frequency
response. Full-range P.A. speakers or at least keyboard amps are Ok.

harry wrote:
> 
> Most synths would fry a home stereo easily.

Better use a brick-wall limiter, to avoid speaker (and ears) damage:

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/papers/limiter.pdf

Use an EQ to narrow the freq response from 40Hz to 15kHz.

> Some headphones can drive from a synth output with just a series
> resistor...

Only if the synth have really low output impedance, or you won?t get a
good sound. But now, more than ever, you?ll need a limiter, if you love
your ears...  :-)

Edu Silva
http://audiolist.cjb.net


From petergrenader at mksound.com  Sun Mar 31 04:58:37 2002
From: petergrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:58:37 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Painting IC's
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F131G5aYY61LEd0001c5d5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8CBD77C.531%petergrenader@mksound.com>

Nah...you'll be good.  Put it this way, if they heat up it's another problem
altogether, not the paint!

In the meantime, you might have a gas with those logic simulating programs.
A good Mac one is LogicSim. Sharware.  Good. A lot of fun.


on 3/30/02 9:17 PM, alan fullarton at alan_fullarton at hotmail.com wrote:

> I'm going to be messing with some logic IC's and I thought
> I would paint white on top of the IC's and draw the logic
> symbles with a black pen to make it easier to build test circuits
> on bread boards from my circuit diagrams.
> Anybody do anything like that?
> Would it cause any problems like heating?
> I wouldn't think it would but still a beginer.
> Thanks
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> 




From alan_fullarton at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 31 03:17:56 2002
From: alan_fullarton at hotmail.com (alan fullarton)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 03:17:56 
Subject: [sdiy] Painting IC's
Message-ID: <LAW2-F131G5aYY61LEd0001c5d5@hotmail.com>

I'm going to be messing with some logic IC's and I thought
I would paint white on top of the IC's and draw the logic
symbles with a black pen to make it easier to build test circuits
on bread boards from my circuit diagrams.
Anybody do anything like that?
Would it cause any problems like heating?
I wouldn't think it would but still a beginer.
Thanks

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net  Sun Mar 31 05:19:45 2002
From: chromatest.pantsmaker at verizon.net (Chromatest Pantsmaker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:19:45 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Graphic EQs? (was Output circuit)
References: <F30d89m0Z5Qaa4mdcUT000037a2@hotmail.com> <3CA6667E.AF41945D@prodigy.net> <3CA671B7.A4A40CB2@terra.com.br>
Message-ID: <3CA68051.78C0DC43@verizon.net>



Edu Silva wrote:

> Use an EQ to narrow the freq response from 40Hz to 15kHz.

I've seen several different graphic EQ's, but never really needed to
use one, so never really gave them much thought.

My one question at this point is as follows;  what happens to the
audio that is above and below the highest and lowest (respectively)
bands of the EQ?  Are the 'end-point' bands set to attenuate all
frequencies beyond them, or do the ultra, and sub sonic frequencies go
through untouched?

thanks all.

-ben


From petergrenader at mksound.com  Sun Mar 31 05:35:00 2002
From: petergrenader at mksound.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:35:00 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Graphic EQs? and Mort
In-Reply-To: <3CA68051.78C0DC43@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B8CBE004.535%petergrenader@mksound.com>

I have never done tests on the actual bandwidth of each filter but have
wondered this myself.  Is the first filter some sort of a low pass and last
some sort of a high pass filter?

I will tell ya a cute graphic EQ trick though I used to do back in the days
of (gasp!) control tracks in electronic music.  Subotnick used to be big on
these, mainly because he didn't have enough modules or recording tracks
availible to do what he needed to otherwise.  He would end up using four
tracks of an Ampex eight track deck for control tracks (which contianed the
timing, amplitude and spacial location control information)  and the last
four tracks for the audio information which we would end up hearing.

Well, it got to the point where four control tracks weren't good enough.  So
what we ended up doing is putting two totally independant control tracks on
each Ampex track at different frequencies. One at about as high as the
Buchla followers would respond to that corrosponed to a band filter CF, one
at the lowest.  We would run the output of these tracks threw the Buchla's
10 band comb filter and vwah-lah...

We could demultiplex two control tracks per channel with absolutely no
crosstalk. Worked like a charm.

-P


> 
> 
> Edu Silva wrote:
> 
>> Use an EQ to narrow the freq response from 40Hz to 15kHz.
> 
> I've seen several different graphic EQ's, but never really needed to
> use one, so never really gave them much thought.
> 
> My one question at this point is as follows;  what happens to the
> audio that is above and below the highest and lowest (respectively)
> bands of the EQ?  Are the 'end-point' bands set to attenuate all
> frequencies beyond them, or do the ultra, and sub sonic frequencies go
> through untouched?
> 
> thanks all.
> 
> -ben




From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Mar 31 05:36:33 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:36:33 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Painting IC's
References: <LAW2-F131G5aYY61LEd0001c5d5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA68441.877C37BF@silcom.com>

    Just don't forget what is under the paint (i.e. the part number).

    The paint will cause no other problems...

alan fullarton wrote:

> I'm going to be messing with some logic IC's and I thought
> I would paint white on top of the IC's and draw the logic
> symbles with a black pen to make it easier to build test circuits
> on bread boards from my circuit diagrams.
> Anybody do anything like that?
> Would it cause any problems like heating?
> I wouldn't think it would but still a beginer.
> Thanks
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From thescum at surfree.com  Sun Mar 31 05:40:06 2002
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:40:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Graphic EQs? (was Output circuit)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20020331034006.00976b24@smtp.surfree.com>

>Almost always*... the highest and lowest bands are shelving EQ... the
>lowest
>band is a HPF and the highest is a LPF so... yes they attenuate all
>frequencies
>beyond the bands.
>
>*meaning: I have never seen one that was NOT like this...

I've seen a bunch where they offer highpass and lowpass filters on knobs off
to one side, and all of the sliders are narrow passbands.  Symetrix did it
like that, at least, and I think Klark Technik did too.

Byron Jacquot



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar 31 05:59:26 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:59:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Graphic EQs? (was Output circuit)
References: <F30d89m0Z5Qaa4mdcUT000037a2@hotmail.com> <3CA6667E.AF41945D@prodigy.net> <3CA671B7.A4A40CB2@terra.com.br> <3CA68051.78C0DC43@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3CA6899E.8382DC0D@prodigy.net>

Almost always*... the highest and lowest bands are shelving EQ... the
lowest
band is a HPF and the highest is a LPF so... yes they attenuate all
frequencies
beyond the bands.

*meaning: I have never seen one that was NOT like this...

H^) harry

Chromatest Pantsmaker wrote:

> Edu Silva wrote:
>
> > Use an EQ to narrow the freq response from 40Hz to 15kHz.
>
> I've seen several different graphic EQ's, but never really needed to
> use one, so never really gave them much thought.
>
> My one question at this point is as follows;  what happens to the
> audio that is above and below the highest and lowest (respectively)
> bands of the EQ?  Are the 'end-point' bands set to attenuate all
> frequencies beyond them, or do the ultra, and sub sonic frequencies go
> through untouched?
>
> thanks all.
>
> -ben

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Mar 31 06:00:55 2002
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:00:55 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Painting IC's
References: <LAW2-F131G5aYY61LEd0001c5d5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA689F6.BB716DAA@prodigy.net>

Why not little sticky paper labels like they use for eproms, pal, etc...

No... heat will be no problem.  The solvents in the paint might be...

H^) harry

alan fullarton wrote:

> I'm going to be messing with some logic IC's and I thought
> I would paint white on top of the IC's and draw the logic
> symbles with a black pen to make it easier to build test circuits
> on bread boards from my circuit diagrams.
> Anybody do anything like that?
> Would it cause any problems like heating?
> I wouldn't think it would but still a beginer.
> Thanks
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

--
Jihad Terrorism Conspiracy New World Order
Revolution Black Helicopters Freedom of
Speech First Amendment Rights: Carnivore Bait
go ahead and READ my e-mail I have nothing to
hide... how about YOU ???




From GoddRobert at aol.com  Sun Mar 31 08:15:45 2002
From: GoddRobert at aol.com (GoddRobert at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:15:45 EST
Subject: [sdiy] ballance and volume
Message-ID: <198.48fd754.29d80391@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/27/2002 3:47:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
t.hogers at home.nl writes:


> Time to surf to http://www.national.com/
> and check out the data sheet for the LM1036 (35 also?)
> A easy to setup DC (read VC) volume and balance control.
> And National toss in VC treble & bass control for free <sound of wild
> cheering crowd>
> Don't have to go for external CV right away, just start with the standard
> application.
> 
> There are plenty examples with this IC online.
> Makes a good balanced (ring) modulator too, and (bad) rotary speaker
> simulation, and auto pan, and wave shaper/distortion, and ...
> Really this thing belongs in Amazing discoveries.
> 
> Theo
> 

I'd be interested in info on using this IC in a balanced modulator 
application. 
I downloaded the ap notes, but I don't see how it could be done???
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/attachments/20020331/2fe58e12/attachment.htm>

From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Sun Mar 31 09:33:29 2002
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:33:29 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Painting IC's
Message-ID: <200203310733.g2V7XSB25107@dm.hotkey.net.au>

There used to be "CMOS Stickies" - little labels with the info already on
them. Stick them on your chip and you were away. Great for prototyping!

Ken

>I'm going to be messing with some logic IC's and I thought
>I would paint white on top of the IC's and draw the logic
>symbles with a black pen to make it easier to build test circuits
>on bread boards from my circuit diagrams.
>Anybody do anything like that?
>Would it cause any problems like heating?
>I wouldn't think it would but still a beginer.
>Thanks
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au  
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From t.hogers at home.nl  Sun Mar 31 12:08:24 2002
From: t.hogers at home.nl (Theo)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:08:24 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ballance and volume
References: <198.48fd754.29d80391@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c1d89b$ff1ce9e0$d37478d4@ensch1.ov.nl.home.com>

Carrier to one input and inverse carrier to the other.
Modulator to the Balance DC control.
Mix the outputs together.

You need to offset the balance voltage so that it is at "center" when no
signal is present at the modulator in put.
That way L and R cancel each other when the modulator is 0.

Later,
Theo


From: GoddRobert at aol.com


In a message dated 3/27/2002 3:47:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
t.hogers at home.nl writes:



Time to surf to http://www.national.com/
and check out the data sheet for the LM1036 (35 also?)
A easy to setup DC (read VC) volume and balance control.
And National toss in VC treble & bass control for free <sound of wild
cheering crowd>
Don't have to go for external CV right away, just start with the standard
application.

There are plenty examples with this IC online.
Makes a good balanced (ring) modulator too, and (bad) rotary speaker
simulation, and auto pan, and wave shaper/distortion, and ...
Really this thing belongs in Amazing discoveries.

Theo



I'd be interested in info on using this IC in a balanced modulator
application.
I downloaded the ap notes, but I don't see how it could be done???



From aesiraven at aesiraven.com  Sun Mar 31 13:20:56 2002
From: aesiraven at aesiraven.com (AesiRaven)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 06:20:56 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
References: <200203310733.g2V7XSB25107@dm.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <001901c1d8a6$21d284e0$0101a8c0@pavilion>

unsubscribe



From bahi0387 at terra.com.br  Sun Mar 31 14:30:23 2002
From: bahi0387 at terra.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:30:23 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Graphic EQs? (was Output circuit)
References: <F30d89m0Z5Qaa4mdcUT000037a2@hotmail.com> <3CA6667E.AF41945D@prodigy.net> <3CA671B7.A4A40CB2@terra.com.br> <3CA68051.78C0DC43@verizon.net> <3CA6899E.8382DC0D@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <3CA7015F.B8310828@terra.com.br>

Hi list

harry wrote:
> 
> Almost always*... the highest and lowest bands are shelving EQ... the
> lowest band is a HPF and the highest is a LPF so...


No. Almost allways there are only bandpass filters in the main EQ
section. Some good pro EQ?s, however, have variable LP an HP filters
too, in series with the BPs, in order to cut down the extreme highs and
lows to avoid damaging speakers, like Harry sugested in other message.


Chromatest Pantsmaker wrote:
> 
> I've seen several different graphic EQ's, but never really needed to
> use one, so never really gave them much thought.


Nice name! :-)

For protection purposes, you don?t need a commercial graphic EQ, just 2
filters: a hipass (40Hz, 18dB/oct) and a lowpass (15kHz, 18dB/oct), in
series. If you want wall-shaking bass, can use a crossover and send freq
up to, say, 80Hz to a subwoofer and he rest to the standard system.

You can find many DIY links to sites with projects of filters,
crossovers and subs in my site

http://audiolist.cjb.net

click in ELETRONICA and FALANTES & CIA and try the links on the left
side.

Good luck!

Edu Silva - audio maniac


From ElmacacoX at aol.com  Sun Mar 31 19:07:36 2002
From: ElmacacoX at aol.com (ElmacacoX at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:07:36 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Kick Drum schematics
Message-ID: <23.1bd5de87.29d89c58@aol.com>

Hey Harry,

not sure if you got this yet, 

but music machines has the schems for the 808 and 606 up there, and perhaops 
the 909,

http://machines.hyperreal.org/


just go to gear, look up the drum machines you want and then go to schematics.

of course, you could just hook up that modular with a self oscillating filter 
and an envelope, and add other elements to taste ;)

enjoy ;)

Eduardo



From james at ersatzplanet.com  Sun Mar 31 19:23:49 2002
From: james at ersatzplanet.com (James Husted)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:23:49 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Graphic EQs? (was Output circuit)
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20020331034006.00976b24@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <B8CC8624.1C668%james@ersatzplanet.com>

on 3/30/02 7:40 PM, Byron G. Jacquot at thescum at surfree.com wrote:

>> Almost always*... the highest and lowest bands are shelving EQ... the
>> lowest
>> band is a HPF and the highest is a LPF so... yes they attenuate all
>> frequencies
>> beyond the bands.
>> 
>> *meaning: I have never seen one that was NOT like this...
> 
> I've seen a bunch where they offer highpass and lowpass filters on knobs off
> to one side, and all of the sliders are narrow passbands.  Symetrix did it
> like that, at least, and I think Klark Technik did too.
> 
> Byron Jacquot
> 
> 
I am familiar with the Symetrix Graphic EQ's mentioned in this thread (I
designed the metalwork and graphics for them). They have fixed Q band pass
filters (31 of them) and also a Low pass and High pass filters (labeled low
cut and High cut). The range of these cut filters is well above and below
the audio range. Many EQ's are designed with band pass and shelving filters
as the end bands. Most are designed with the audio spectrum in mind and just
use enough band pass filters to cover that range. For cost sake the other
shelving and HP/LP filters are not seen on these cheaper units. We always
toyed with the idea of making a "paragraphic equalizer" which was to be a
graphic EQ combined with a couple of parametric EQ bands. You could use the
graphic section for room EQ (the main use of a Graphic EQ) and the
Parametric for problem fixing (feedback, hum, the main uses for a parametric
EQ). The in-shop name was "The Equalmetric Paralyzer".
-James
--
"Welcome to the first day of the rest of your money."

James Husted                        The ErsatZ Planet
james at ersatzplanet.com           www.ersatzplanet.com


  



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 20:07:38 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:07:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator Release!!!
Message-ID: <20020331180738.27790.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

 
 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From suoiciv at freebox.com  Sun Mar 31 20:25:39 2002
From: suoiciv at freebox.com (miffo man)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:25:39 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <7283466.1017599138994.JavaMail.orion@britney.freebox.com>

unsubscribe

__________________________________________________
FreeBox - The World's Finest Web Mail Solution
Get your own FREE email at http://www.freebox.com/



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 20:26:08 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:26:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator Release!!!
Message-ID: <20020331182608.12835.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>

(oops, lets try that again)

Hey all,

I am officially releasing the Walsh Generator IC.
Unfortunately dut to the financial contraints of being
unemployed, I cannot offer a PC board at this time. So
I guess all you DIYers will have to get along hand
wiring for now.

I am asking $15USD. For that you get a CPLD in a
44-pin PLCC package, along with a socket and pinout.

As far as schematics, I can email PDFs. No web site
yet, thanks to the pig-headed folks at ATT broadband.
Perhaps someone can loan me some space in the
meantime? In exchange for a walsh chip perhaps?

--TR

**************************************
Testing the waters with your toe may
not help, The warmest water is on top.
**************************************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 20:42:50 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:42:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Kick Drum schematics
References: <23.1bd5de87.29d89c58@aol.com>
Message-ID: <019501c1d8e7$a8adec20$447e893e@oemcomputer>

>of course, you could just hook up that modular with a self oscillating
filter and an envelope, and add other elements to taste...

Unfortunately, this does not work that well for kick drums. The
frequency has to be quite low, and therfore it is difficult to ensure
that your oscillating filter's output is starting at the right point.
What you end up with is odd clicks and soft attacks sort at random in
your drum pattern. You need to do what the TR909 did and reset the VCO
every trigger. This way you can be sure your VCO will start at the same
point every trigger.

You could get your filter to ring gently, just below self osciallation,,
and then whack the audio input with a trigger signal. This works sort
of.

Regards,

Tony Allgood                       Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Sound Systems                     www.oakleysound.com
Modular projects            www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm





From oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 31 20:47:38 2002
From: oakley at techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk (Tony Allgood)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:47:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Graphic EQs? (was Output circuit)
References: <1.5.4.32.20020331034006.00976b24@smtp.surfree.com>
Message-ID: <019701c1d8e7$ab442760$447e893e@oemcomputer>

>Almost always*... the highest and lowest bands are shelving EQ...

But not in the Freefilter VST plug in. Which is a shame.

Regards,

Tony Allgood                       Penrith, Cumbria, England

Oakley Sound Systems                     www.oakleysound.com
Modular projects            www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm




From colin at colinfraser.com  Sun Mar 31 20:59:10 2002
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin Fraser)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:59:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Kick Drum schematics
In-Reply-To: <23.1bd5de87.29d89c58@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1d8e6$24763990$6b1f68d5@zen>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of 
> ElmacacoX at aol.com
> Sent: 31 March 2002 6:08
> To: harrybissell at prodigy.net; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Kick Drum schematics
> 
> of course, you could just hook up that modular with a self 
> oscillating filter 
> and an envelope, and add other elements to taste ;)

There's one flaw with using a self-oscillating filter for a kick drum -
you really need the wave reset to zero when it's triggered to avoid
getting an inconsistent click at the start of your bass drum.
The 909 oscillator has a transistor across the cap to do that.

Colin f



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 21:27:26 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:27:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator Release!!!
In-Reply-To: <20020331182608.12835.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020331192726.18052.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>

Wow!  Thanks for all the offers of website usage. This
just goes to re-affirm the fact that this list is
populated with generous and giving folks.

Now if I just had a copy of adobe PDF writer that
worked. My oldish copy doesn't work...

--TR



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 22:14:33 2002
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:14:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator Release!!!
In-Reply-To: <20020331192726.18052.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020331201433.51731.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,

I found a pretty neat product:

http://www.pdfcreation.com/

They have a PDF print driver for $50. i am trying the
eval copy right now. It puts a print driver into
windows so that you can make a PDF from any app just
by printing to it. Check it out!

--TR


--- Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Now if I just had a copy of adobe PDF writer that
> worked. My oldish copy doesn't work...


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From yashk2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 22:42:44 2002
From: yashk2000 at yahoo.com (Yash)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 00:42:44 +0400
Subject: [sdiy] Opamp Function Generator Kit.
In-Reply-To: <B8CBD77C.531%petergrenader@mksound.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1d8f4$9c5f5dc0$b9087bca@yashmachine1>

I just bought a DIY kit with an OPAMP function generator. I was quite
pleased as there was also a square wave oscillator kit which was more
expensive. The one I bought gives me a Square, a Triangle and a Sine, thanks
to a  LM348N IC (quad OPAMP).

I'm thrilled, especially because after I downloaded some spec sheets about
the component, I also got some other applications like a state-variable
filter.

The circuit has the three outputs for sine, square and triangle. I think
they can be used simultaneously.

I am hoping to augment this circuit with a sawtooth as well as a noise
generator before I attack the filter part.

I believe I will strive to seek a variable state filter or a multi-mode one
for the filtering. I would prefer to have a variety of filters to be put in
series and/or parallel before the amplifer stage.

Can I also just build my filters separately without worrying too much about
eh connections between my modules?

Any ideas about the baove would be most welcome.

Regards,

Yash.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From john.l.marshall at gte.net  Sun Mar 31 22:46:11 2002
From: john.l.marshall at gte.net (John L Marshall)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:46:11 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator Release!!!
References: <20020331192726.18052.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001201c1d8f5$18168240$c801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>

I just bought a copy of Adobe Acrobat. That should do the job.

John


----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
To: Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>; Synth-Diy
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Walsh Generator Release!!!


> Wow!  Thanks for all the offers of website usage. This
> just goes to re-affirm the fact that this list is
> populated with generous and giving folks.
>
> Now if I just had a copy of adobe PDF writer that
> worked. My oldish copy doesn't work...
>
> --TR
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/
>



From mclilith at ezwv.com  Sun Mar 31 23:13:18 2002
From: mclilith at ezwv.com (Glen)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:13:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator Release!!!
In-Reply-To: <20020331201433.51731.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020331192726.18052.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20020331160554.02572de0@mail.ezwv.com>

At 03:14 PM 3/31/02 , Tim Ressel wrote:
>Hey,
>
>I found a pretty neat product:
>
>http://www.pdfcreation.com/
>
>They have a PDF print driver for $50. i am trying the
>eval copy right now. It puts a print driver into
>windows so that you can make a PDF from any app just
>by printing to it. Check it out!
>
>--TR

That web site won't open in Netscape 4.7 for me, and I had to use my Microsoft
browser (which I avoid religiously) instead.  I don't know about the quality of
their software, but there web site isn't that great, if Netscape can't open it.
I then found out that this product requires Win98 or greater. It won't work on
Win95, which is what I have.

There is also a way to create PDF files without paying for commercial software.
I don't remember the details, but it involved installing a Postscript printer
driver (available on your Windows install disk) and printing your document to a
file. That file was then converted to a PDF format, but I can't remember what
software was used for the process. Was it GhostScript perhaps? Does anyone here
know? It would come in handy for those of us that want to publish schematics in
a cross-platform format.


Later,
Glen


From bahi0387 at terra.com.br  Sun Mar 31 23:36:22 2002
From: bahi0387 at terra.com.br (Edu Silva)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:36:22 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator Release!!!
References: <20020331192726.18052.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> <4.1.20020331160554.02572de0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <3CA78156.4242EB9B@terra.com.br>

Hi all,

Glen wrote:
> 
> There is also a way to create PDF files without paying for
> commercial software.
> I don't remember the details, but it involved installing a
> Postscript printer driver...


Yes, it had been discussed here already, try a search in the archives:

http://www.buchi.de/sdiy

Good luck,

Edu Silva
http://audiolist.cjb.net


From patchell at silcom.com  Sun Mar 31 23:48:09 2002
From: patchell at silcom.com (patchell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:48:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Opamp Function Generator Kit.
References: <000201c1d8f4$9c5f5dc0$b9087bca@yashmachine1>
Message-ID: <3CA78419.818F83B5@silcom.com>



Yash wrote:

> I just bought a DIY kit with an OPAMP function generator. I was quite
> pleased as there was also a square wave oscillator kit which was more
> expensive. The one I bought gives me a Square, a Triangle and a Sine, thanks
> to a  LM348N IC (quad OPAMP).
>
> I'm thrilled, especially because after I downloaded some spec sheets about
> the component, I also got some other applications like a state-variable
> filter.
>
> The circuit has the three outputs for sine, square and triangle. I think
> they can be used simultaneously.
>
> I am hoping to augment this circuit with a sawtooth as well as a noise
> generator before I attack the filter part.

    Converting a square and triangle (both required) to a saw is fairly easy.  I
don't know where a circuit to do this might be on the web (I sure one must be
someplace), but I can sketch one up fairly easily if nobody comes up with a
url.  Noise is a seperate issue. Go to the ASM-1 home page...there is a noise
circuit there.

>
>
> I believe I will strive to seek a variable state filter or a multi-mode one
> for the filtering. I would prefer to have a variety of filters to be put in
> series and/or parallel before the amplifer stage.
>
> Can I also just build my filters separately without worrying too much about
> eh connections between my modules?

    Not too sure what you mean there??

>
>
> Any ideas about the baove would be most welcome.
>
> Regards,
>
> Yash.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

--
 -Jim
------------------------------------------------
* Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
*-----------------------------------------------
*I'm sure glad Merry Christmas comes just once a year
* -Yogi Yorgensen
------------------------------------------------




From nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk  Sun Mar 31 23:50:13 2002
From: nej22 at hermes.cam.ac.uk (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:50:13 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] Walsh Generator Release!!!
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20020331160554.02572de0@mail.ezwv.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0203312239270.4017-100000@orange.csi.cam.ac.uk>

Glen, Tim, and all,

Yes, you can use Ghostscript to generate PDF files!  I don't think the
compression is as great though (probably to do with patent issues with
compression algorithms *yawn*) but I use it all the time (running on
Linux) to convert PS to PDF.

For example, I do my schematics in Xfig (yeah, ok, you can stop laughing
now) and convert to PDFs with ghostscript -- there's a handy little script
called, wait for it, "ps2pdf".  Nice'n'easy.

I'm pretty sure the Win32 version of Ghostview does this too, but you'll
have to check (download it anyway, its very handy).  In windows choose a
generic Postscript printer and save to file, then use GS to convert to
PDF.  Job done.  It would seem that the print target device to use is
called "pdfwrite".

Hope this helps,
Neil

--
Neil Johnson :: Computer Laboratory :: University of Cambridge ::
http://www.njohnson.co.uk          http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~nej22
----  IEE Cambridge Branch: http://www.iee-cambridge.org.uk  ----



