[sdiy] Flanger???

Thu May 23 21:53:56 CEST 2002

a pair of effectrons did the trick for me... one was an
Effectron, one an Effectron II.

I just didn't want the effect bad enough to dedicate two units...
but it really was through zero.

I'm sad to hear the Studio 100 won't do it. I have one and was planning on 
giving it a try...

H^) harry

>From: Gene Stopp <gene at ixiacom.com>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Flanger???
>Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:18:14 -0700
>
>I myself am on the quest for the ultimate flanger. I have not found it yet.
>This of course only increases my determination.
>
>Some years ago I wanted to prove that I had a good understanding of the
>thru-zero effect. This is what you hear on such recordings as "Life in the
>Fast Lane" by the Eagles, or "Killer Queen" by Queen, or countless Tomita
>albums.
>
>Experiment #1:
>
>The experiment that I did consisted of a CD player and a Teac 2340. I
>recorded a song from a CD (IQ's "Living Proof") onto the tape deck. Then I
>rewound, and started both the tape deck and the CD player (boombox)
>together. The two sources were coming out of separate speakers - boombox 
>and
>room monitors - so the mixing was happening in the room air. After some 
>tape
>slowdown manipulation, I was able to achieve the thru-zero effect. It was
>enormously profound. Exactly what I was after. But I want this effect on
>*my* music, not somebody elses!
>
>Experiment #2:
>
>I built a thing I called the "Gnarlo-Flange" (it says so on the panel) 
>using
>two separate 4096-stage BBD's (MN3005's I think). It worked, but it's too
>noisey (surprise, surprise, right Harry?). It did not provide the profound
>effect I was looking for. It does however do a great job getting white 
>noise
>to do the
>
>"whoooosssshhhheeee"-<silence>-"eeeeoooooowwww"
>
>sound that thru-zero flanging is famous for. So great, got the white noise
>thing going now. I'll tuck that into my bag of tricks, but my search
>continues.
>
>Recently, I have done the following:
>
>Experiment #3:
>
>Purchased a Digitech Studio 100 because it has two separate tweakable
>parallel engines. This was totally based on advertisement and considered a
>small price to pay just in case it solved my problem right away. It didn't.
>But I still use it, it was cheap.
>
>Experiment #3:
>
>Alesis Midiverb 4 "Through-Zero" patch - results, just OK. Sounds like just
>another rack effect. Maybe needs more scrutiny and tweaking, but it did not
>have the immediate "That's it!" effect. You know guys, sometimes it's 
>really
>HARD getting a nice demo going in Guitar Center or Sam Ash - the guys who
>work there are just not sympathetic to your desires. After a while you just
>have to go "f at ck it, here's my damn credit card, let me out of here!".
>
>Experiment #4:
>
>Eventide Instant Flanger - bought one off ebay. Nice flanging, no thru-zero
>(only one delay line inside). Modified it to add resonance for a nice 
>touch,
>but not the Holy Grail I seek. Sits happily in the effects rack now. At 
>this
>point I realized that NO commercially-available product was going to give 
>me
>an out-of-the-box solution. I would have to get craftier.
>
>Experiment #5:
>
>Yamaha SPX-90 and Teac 2340 in parallel - trial and error with this setup
>resulted in the discovery that the record-repro head delay of a Teac 2340 
>on
>7 IPS is about 145 milliseconds. Not bad, not great. By this time I am
>thinking that the exact frequency response curves of the two delay elements
>(whatever they may be) must be as closely matched as possible so that all 
>of
>the cancelling frequencies happen at the same time, with the same
>peak/valley heighth or depth, to get the real deal. High fidelity and low
>noise are essential to get the complete effect. These two delays were just
>not matched.
>
>Experiment #6:
>
>Effectron II from ebay (purchased EXCLUSIVELY for this purpose - I'm 
>getting
>serious now) and Yamaha SPX-90 in parallel - okay, but right at the
>thru-zero point there is some kind of leakage going on such that you can
>still hear the program material as though it is going through a high-pass
>filter. This of course ruins the effect and only serves to reinforce my
>theory that the two delay elements need to be precisely matched in audio
>response. Aliasing battles are bad.
>
>Experiment #7:
>
>Not done yet, but I think it's going to happen soon. Purchase another Teac
>2340 to match the one I have, and drive one of them with a home-built
>variable-frequency mains inverter driven by a voltage-controlled sinewave
>oscillator swept by another LFO.
>
>I am mad, I admit it. I will not be defeated.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>- Gene
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Happy Harry [mailto:paia2720 at hotmail.com]
>Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 9:40 AM
>To: petergrenader at mksound.com; nihil at torgoth.com;
>synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Flanger???
>
>
>Well as u know I am not a 'friend' of the BBD
>(Bucket Brigade Delay) but I wouls check out
>Juergen Haible's clone of the Eventide Flanger
>"Storm Tide Flanger"... it is probably as good
>of a circuit as you will ever find.
>
>A LOT of BBD based circuits suffer from pretty
>poor noise performance. (read... 'extremely poor')
>
>Phasing and Flanging are really different. In
>Phasing, the notches are not harmonic related...
>in Flanging they are. Phasing is usually done with
>all-pass filter designs... Flanging is done with
>delay lines.
>
>I'd look for some old Delta-Lab Effectrons (for cheap)
>if you want flanging.  If you have two delay lines...
>you can set one for a fixed, short delay (maybe 1ms) and
>vary the other one... allowing through-zero flanging
>(a VERY cool effect)
>
>H^) harry
>
>
> >From: Peter Grenader <petergrenader at mksound.com>
> >To: Nihil Chimeraea <nihil at torgoth.com>, <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >Subject: [sdiy] Flanger???
> >Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:42:59 -0600
> >
> >Guys,
> >
> >After finding that the Analog System's Comb Filter was sort of a bust in 
>as
> >far as flanging,  I have been looking around for one and had a crazy idea
> >just to modify a store bought guitar pedal with a VC input or two.
> >
> >Then, I found this circuit on John Hollis' site:
> >
> >http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/ultraflanger3.jpg
> >
> >You will see there an LFO on the bottom left which is generating the 
>sweep,
> >and figured this is the place to plop in the VC input.
> >
> >Does anyone have any experience with this particular circuit, or could 
>any
> >of you recommend another circuit which would do the job?
> >
> >A clarification on Analog System's Comb FIlter:  I am not meaning to spam
> >one of my fav synth builders, not at all.  Their multi=mode filters are 
>one
> >of the sweetest out there. Their Comb Filter did not give the effects I 
>was
> >after in flanging or phasing, that's all.  It kind of is an auto Adrian
> >Belew generator, as anything going into it tends to sound like Ade coming
> >out.  This isn't a bad thing, it just didn't do what I wished, so I 
>swaped
> >it for a Doepfer phasor. Am still in need to that all powerful flange
> >however.
> >
> >Let me know and thanks,
> >
> >Peter
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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