From raywilson at comcast.net  Sun Jan  1 01:05:07 2006
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:05:07 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] ADSR PC boards available
References: <200512311747.25756.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <000501c60e67$06ab7c80$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>

Hi Everyone.

I have a nice ADSR project that I have boards for if you are interested. You 
can make your own boards too.
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/ADSR001/ADSR001.html

Cheers and Happy New Years to everyone.

Ray 



From heitor.alves at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 01:16:02 2006
From: heitor.alves at gmail.com (Heitor Alves)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 00:16:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: MOOG PRODIGY calibration
In-Reply-To: <1db.4a35ee79.30e860a2@aol.com>
References: <1db.4a35ee79.30e860a2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6b8035270512311616p22ebbc96h@mail.gmail.com>

OMG! LLOOOLL @ Yamaha Legs!

by the way, the usual problems of babelfish is getting the sentences in the
right way...

Happy - Feliz
New - Novo
Year - Ano

In portuguese you say Feliz Ano Novo not Ano Novo Feliz... ;o) Just put them
in backwards... the first is normally the last.. or something..i'm too
"drunk" to explain :oD

HAPPY NEW YEAR!


2005/12/31, WeAreAs1 at aol.com <WeAreAs1 at aol.com>:
>
>
> In a message dated 12/31/05 1:18:31 PM, bbdsynth at gmail.com writes:
>
>
> Babel fish does wonders doesn?t it?
>
>
> What is this "Babel fish" of which you speak?  I don't know what you're
> talking about.
>
> Umm... I mean, umm.... wait a minute....
>
> Que ?D+1 este "peixe de babel?"
>
> Eu n?D+*o tenho nenhuma id?D+1ia o que voc?D+4 est?D+! falando sobre.   ;)
>
>
> Um miracle da idade moderna:   http://babelfish.altavista.com
>
> Babelfish provides very good direct translations, but it doesn't really
> know how to translate colloquial expressions or common phrases that don't
> directly translate.  So sometimes, when you're trying to look cool and
> smart, Babelfish can help make you look like a foolish idiot.
>
> I am reminded of the infamous first printing of the Yamaha CP-70 English
> service manual, where they gave directions for screwing the legs into the
> CP-70 by cheerfully telling you to "fuck the legs into the bottom of the
> piano".
>
> Have owner's and service manual translations gotten any better since
> then?  Hmmm... let's ask someone who has recently purchased some Roland
> equipment!
>
> Happy New Year!
> Ano Novo Feliz!
> ?D"BFeliz A?D+Po Nuevo!
> Gelukkig Nieuw Jaar!
> Nouvelle Ann?D+1e Heureuse !
> Gl?D+dckliches Neues Jahr!
> Nuovo Anno Felice!
> ? ????? ?????!
> ???!
> ??????????!
>
>
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From 23isgood at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 02:17:42 2006
From: 23isgood at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:17:42 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas Henry's Potpourri Module questions
Message-ID: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>

 Hi everybody. I'm building this circuit at the moment from Thomas Henry's
old book, "Build a Better Synthesizer", and I wanted to learn how to use it.
At the moment I got it on the breadboard and while testing, the Lag Time pot
seems to do nothing. The lag is defiantly there but I wanted to know if I
should change the pot to a different value?  Now I don't understand what the
Buffer input on the Lag Processor is for? Also what is a comparator and how
is it used? I appreciate any help you guys could share. I uploaded a small
archive with the pages from the book, check it out,

http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2HPG2VCS78I1C2751DLJ7JH2BF

thanks
pete

--


www.cubanpetemusic.com
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From dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 04:53:53 2006
From: dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com (dustin sedlacek)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:53:53 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] happy happy joy joy
Message-ID: <b50a5d0a0512311953y4f16c663x20ed04080cbb8f55@mail.gmail.com>

Happy new year !



--
Dustin
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From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 05:16:00 2006
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 06:16:00 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] happy happy joy joy
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0512311953y4f16c663x20ed04080cbb8f55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0512311953y4f16c663x20ed04080cbb8f55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80512312016q26fdb2aak2c42514af9001fee@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/1/06, dustin sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com> wrote:
> Happy new year !
>
>
>
> --
> Dustin



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  1 07:11:38 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 01:11:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] FETs for distortion
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk> <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>

"Roy J. Tellason" wrote:

> The 4049 is capable of being used as a level-shifter,  where the logic swing
> at the inputs can exceed the power supply voltage by a signficant amount.
> It's also in a 16-pin package compared to the 14-pin package of the 4069.

but... two of the 4049 pins are not connected. Doesn't that count ???   :^P

"now base eight is just like base ten... if you're missing two fingers " :Tom
Lehrer

H^) harry



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sun Jan  1 08:28:22 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 02:28:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Redesigning CA3080 circuits to use LM13600/13700?
In-Reply-To: <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
 <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


I'm guessing it's more subtle than just a direct one-for-one replacement - 
what are the "gotchas" that one should look out for?

- Aaron

P.S. Yes, I'm obsessively compulsively checking e-mail on my laptop at 
2:26 AM on New Year's Eve before going to bed. My wife is next to me, 
obsessively compulsively checking e-mail on her laptop.


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sun Jan  1 08:40:13 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 02:40:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
 <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


As sort of the reverse corallary to my last question...

Jameco has them for $2.95 each, $2.65 for 10+, which is a bit pricey...

...or is that as cheap as they come nowadays?

- Aaron


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 08:53:39 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 02:53:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
	 <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net>
	 <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70512312353j36b03d5bof3673094e9bc32ac@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/1/06, Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:
>
>
> As sort of the reverse corallary to my last question...
>
> Jameco has them for $2.95 each, $2.65 for 10+, which is a bit pricey...
>
> ...or is that as cheap as they come nowadays?
>
> - Aaron
>

Does anyone know, of any other suppliers for the CA3080, that may still have
DECENT stock?  (In the 100's at least.)
I just bought the last stock from my only local supplier, that carries
them.  :(  I have enough now for at least a year but ...... I'd like to get
enough to stay with them. :)
I've got a single LM13600, and have still never played with them or
LM13700s.  Sticking with the 3080s whilst I can. :)

(Checking email AFTER a night of fun. :)  Addiction?  Why - it's been normal
for me, for at least the last 10 years. ;)  LOL )

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
2705 update
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 08:55:40 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 02:55:40 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] happy happy joy joy
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80512312016q26fdb2aak2c42514af9001fee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0512311953y4f16c663x20ed04080cbb8f55@mail.gmail.com>
	 <fa1b0bd80512312016q26fdb2aak2c42514af9001fee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70512312355s5b404b2brfde85d5b57049c54@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/31/05, Samppa Tolvanen <samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/1/06, dustin sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Happy new year !
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dustin
>
>
Happy New Year. :)  And on the 19th, if I remember correctly, again, Happy
Chinese New Year, for the Year of The Dog. :D  (Honesty / determination.  A
good year for completing yet uncompleted projects. ;) )


--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
2705 update
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 09:10:19 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 03:10:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas Henry's Potpourri Module questions
In-Reply-To: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/31/05, Pete <23isgood at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Hi everybody. I'm building this circuit at the moment from Thomas Henry's
> old book, "Build a Better Synthesizer", and I wanted to learn how to use it.
> At the moment I got it on the breadboard and while testing, the Lag Time pot
> seems to do nothing. The lag is defiantly there but I wanted to know if I
> should change the pot to a different value?  Now I don't understand what the
> Buffer input on the Lag Processor is for?


Being on a breadboard, make absolutely sure of each connection listed on the
schematic, being exactly as it should be, on the breadboard. :O
Sorry if I'm stating this strongly, but I just destroyed a 20+ year old
breadboard of mine a couple of days ago, due to VERY bad contacts inside of
it.  Opening it up - sure enough, many of the pins were corroded. :(
Also - breadboards CAN be very fussy as to whether they're making the
contact or not. :(

The 1 meg value for the pot, is a very good value, for Portamento.  You
could use a 100k value as well, but you wouldn't be able to have, as long a
time for Portamento, as you would with a 1 meg pot.

The Buffer input in this schematic, is serving 2 potential functions.
- If you're inputing the signal straight to the buffer, then that signal
will be Buffered (exactly the same) at the output of the Buffer's opamp.
- If you're inputting the signal into the Lag input, the Buffer will act as
a buffer to hold the voltage as it grows, across the capacitor.  The pot, is
limiting how quickly that cap will charge up TO, the value that you are
feeding into it.  This is what gives you the slide UP or DOWN in the output
version from the buffer, of your input value. :)

Also what is a comparator and how is it used? I appreciate any help you guys
> could share. I uploaded a small archive with the pages from the book, check
> it out,


A Comparator will output either of 2 voltages:

- a HIGH voltage (almost to the power supply's + level of that opamp /
comparator chip)
- a LOW voltage (almost to the power supply's - level of that opamp /
comparator chip)

How this works.  The Comparator in this circuit, is set up so that you are
able to specify a Voltage Level, that you wish to be told, when it is
crossed, by your Comparator Input voltage.

You may specify this level either with the pot that is hooked up to the +
power supply or the - power supply, or the External Voltage (Threshold)
Input or both at once.

When your Comparator Voltage input is HIGHer than your Threshold, then the
Comparator will output a HIGH voltage.  When the Comparator Voltage input is
LOWer than your Threshold, then the Comparator will output a LOW voltage.

:)

I hope that helps you somewhat, at least. :)  Any other questions - fire
away. :D

<http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2HPG2VCS78I1C2751DLJ7JH2BF>thanks
> pete
>
> --


Nada trubba. :D

www.cubanpetemusic.com
>
>


--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
2705 update
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From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Sun Jan  1 09:57:11 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 00:57:11 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk> <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20060101085711.GO10396@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sun, Jan 01, 2006 at 02:40:13AM -0500, Aaron Lanterman wrote:
> 
> As sort of the reverse corallary to my last question...
> 
> Jameco has them for $2.95 each, $2.65 for 10+, which is a bit pricey...
> 
> ...or is that as cheap as they come nowadays?

JDR has 50 or so in stock at $1.50.

You can buy tubes of them off ebay if you watch, usually these days at about
$1 each.

If someone has a lot of money they can throw around, quantities in excess of
100k are readily available for cheap, but you'd need $25k to do the order.
I dont think 3080's are going anywhere for a while and I also dont expect
anyone to make them until there are fewer left in stock. 

In other interesting news, New Japan Radio still supports the process under
which LM3080's were last made by National, so once there is a real market
for 3080's ( after existing stocks are depleted a bit more ) I rather expect
we'll see an NJR3080.  On the other hand, I'm only using 3080's now when I'm
building a board that requires one.  For new stuff I am laying out I'm
actually trying to go all discreet where possible.  4 transistors = 1 3080
in some cases :-)  I think there was a thread a while back about building a
discrete OTA, if not then I saw it in one of the many books I've gotten
recently ( I thought it was Walt Jungs latest, but its not ).

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From bbdsynth at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 16:03:19 2006
From: bbdsynth at gmail.com (Diogo Melo)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:03:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: MOOG PRODIGY calibration
In-Reply-To: <6b8035270512311405x29fa51ech@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2a1.31f3946.30e82e50@aol.com>
	 <8c2a45890512311318g415e886bw@mail.gmail.com>
	 <6b8035270512311405x29fa51ech@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c2a45890601010703h14a9b183n@mail.gmail.com>

yes, but that is not happening...

On 31/12/05, Heitor Alves <heitor.alves at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> LOL @ babelfish
>
> Sometimes gets the semantics all wrong, but we can understand it anyway
> ;o)
>
> About the moog, wasnt supose to get 1v/oct in the keyboard?
>
> Happy New year for all!
>
>
> 2005/12/31, Diogo Melo <bbdsynth at gmail.com>:
> >
> > Babel fish does wonders doesn?t it?
> >
> > On 31/12/05, WeAreAs1 at aol.com < WeAreAs1 at aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 12/31/05 6:50:28 AM, bbdsynth at gmail.com writes:
> > >
> > > <<  About the moog: he works well but it needs calibration  >>
> > >
> > > About Harry:  he works well, but he needs calibration.
> > >
> > >
> > > <<  And another thing  me and heitor are portuguese :)  >>
> > >
> > > OK, desculpa-me.  O que eu significo ?:
> > >
> > > A respeito de Harry: trabalha bem, mas necessita a calibra??o.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  1 18:48:33 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:48:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Redesigning CA3080 circuits to use LM13600/13700?
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
	 <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <43B815EF.D6562D39@prodigy.net>

in most cases you can use the LM13600 / 13700 and just don't use the
buffer.  The CA3080 might be ~slightly~ better than the LM13600 / 13700
especially in offset voltage, but that is not guaranteed.

The NE5517 is a good choice as well... although I did get some weird
response in cutoff. I got a little feedthrough where I expected none...

H^) harry

Aaron Lanterman wrote:

> I'm guessing it's more subtle than just a direct one-for-one replacement -
> what are the "gotchas" that one should look out for?
>
> - Aaron
>
> P.S. Yes, I'm obsessively compulsively checking e-mail on my laptop at
> 2:26 AM on New Year's Eve before going to bed. My wife is next to me,
> obsessively compulsively checking e-mail on her laptop.



From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Jan  1 19:13:47 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 11:13:47 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
Message-ID: <200601011913.k01JDlp19855@linux7>


Why I don't use simulation software and I _do_ use a solderless breadboard.

First, I make no arguement.  What Harry says is true of the faults.

However: The SSB is a physical electronic device and therefore dutifully
behaves as all physical electronic devices behave.  In other words, the
defects he lists can be accounted for because they are real physical
components.  Knowing the weaknesses is tantamount.

I do not use simulation software principally because in is _NOT_ physical
electronics and it's quirks can be vexing, even with the best and most
expensive simulators.  Yes, they can work, but no, not always and when
they don't it can be frustrating to understand why.  I will even
speculate that it's possible for a simulator to give a result indicating
a design works when it will not in a physical circuit due to limitations
in component simulation parameters (models).  While this may be rare, it
can happen.  

As for solderless breadboards, I use them for audio frequency use ONLY. 
And I mean no more than 20KHz.  This lessens the problems introduced by
row connector capacitance to some degree.  I would NEVER try to make a
200MHz oscillator nor if I could and it "worked", would I expect perfect
waveforms from it.  Maybe I just got lucky and bought the right kind of
SSB chunks.  Or maybe I'm careful and don't do things that would destroy
otherwise good ones, but I've never experienced rows shorted together nor
have I experienced other resistive connection problems.  Some things I
don't do is to force large diameter leads into the holes.  The wire I use
is modern telephone wire (not the older heavy copper "D-station" wire). 
I don't, for example, build a power supply or any power circuit on an
SBB.  In truth, the only designs I've had fail on SBB, failed because
they were bad designs or they were physically miswired.  This cannot be
blamed on anyone but me.

As always, your milage may vary.  My SBBs have never failed.



harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>Why I don't use breadboards - by H^) harry
>
>When I was in college, a good friend of mine designed a circuit.
>It was a theatrical light dimmer. Back in those dark days... many
>theatrical light dimmers were still mechanical, or motor driven
>rheostats
>or variable transformers. There were some commercial thyristor designs,
>but
>they were still in their infancy. (no... they didn't use gaslights back
>then :^)
>
>The design was a voltage controlled dimmer. 0-10V in for full range
>control.
>
>He got a commercial prospect to come and see the design. Of course the
>solderless breadboard chose that time to fail. He begged and pleaded...
>just
>five more minutes, it works I swear it does...  Well the guy gave him an
>hour
>to no avail.
>
>Two hours later, he found a wire that had snuck through a gap in-between
>rows
>and shorted.
>
>Two hours too late, too bad.  The opportunity was gone.
>
>LOL... we had a small breadboard at work.  When we were forced to 'clean
>the lab' I helped by offering to throw it away.  It was the ONE thing I
>was sure we would never
>miss :^P
>
>SMT will certainly obsolete the solderless breadboard. Maybe SMT is not
>ALL bad :^)
>(it will obsolete my favored technique, vectorboard and T42-A pins)
>
>If you like to use breadboards, that's cool. They were mainly used for
>teaching
>basic electronics in schools, so that parts etc could be re-used. Kind
>of like what they
>do with SPICE today.
>
>Bob Pease made the following points in his book "Troubleshooting Analog
>Circuits"
>
>1) Capacitance: 2-5 pF between adjacent strips "On a good day, only a
>wise engineer
>could plan a layout that all the capacitors, sprinkled throughout the
>circuit, wouldn't ruin"
>
>2) Long leads : make adding effective bypass capacitors close to a chip,
>difficult.
>
>3) Plastics : esp Nylon, on warm humid days insulation resistance
>suffers (too low).
>
>4) Contamination : Solder scrapes off the leads and can build up causing
>shorts.
>The adhesive makes it difficult to blow the scrap away with compressed
>air. (courtesy of Scott Bowman, Dublin CA.)
>
>Bob concludes...
>
>"I didn't even think about these solderless breadboards when I wrote my
>series
>because I see them so rarely at work. They just have too many
>disadvantages
>to be good for any serious work. So, if you insist on using these slabs
>of trouble,
>don't say that I didn't warn you."
>
>The breadboards are like SPICE in many ways. They let you try an idea
>quickly.
>In either case... I would not trust a SPICE simulation until I had built
>the real thing
>and compared the performance (to improve both the circuit, and the spice
>models).
>
>Be afraid... be very afraid...   :^P
>
>H^) harry
>
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From frankentron at hotmail.com  Sun Jan  1 19:32:13 2006
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 13:32:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Round Molex Pins
Message-ID: <BAY115-F240ED29BDD6B5A9F56BA33B32A0@phx.gbl>

I found a very nice deal on Molex .156 headers with round pins. I'll have to 
order housings and contacts from Allied or Mouser but I only see one type of 
contact available. Anyone know if the standard contact can be used with both 
square and round pin headers?

M. A. Ruberto




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  1 19:37:50 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 13:37:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com> <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>

Why I don't use breadboards - by H^) harry

When I was in college, a good friend of mine designed a circuit.
It was a theatrical light dimmer. Back in those dark days... many
theatrical light dimmers were still mechanical, or motor driven
rheostats
or variable transformers. There were some commercial thyristor designs,
but
they were still in their infancy. (no... they didn't use gaslights back
then :^)

The design was a voltage controlled dimmer. 0-10V in for full range
control.

He got a commercial prospect to come and see the design. Of course the
solderless breadboard chose that time to fail. He begged and pleaded...
just
five more minutes, it works I swear it does...  Well the guy gave him an
hour
to no avail.

Two hours later, he found a wire that had snuck through a gap in-between
rows
and shorted.

Two hours too late, too bad.  The opportunity was gone.

LOL... we had a small breadboard at work.  When we were forced to 'clean
the lab' I helped by offering to throw it away.  It was the ONE thing I
was sure we would never
miss :^P

SMT will certainly obsolete the solderless breadboard. Maybe SMT is not
ALL bad :^)
(it will obsolete my favored technique, vectorboard and T42-A pins)

If you like to use breadboards, that's cool. They were mainly used for
teaching
basic electronics in schools, so that parts etc could be re-used. Kind
of like what they
do with SPICE today.

Bob Pease made the following points in his book "Troubleshooting Analog
Circuits"

1) Capacitance: 2-5 pF between adjacent strips "On a good day, only a
wise engineer
could plan a layout that all the capacitors, sprinkled throughout the
circuit, wouldn't ruin"

2) Long leads : make adding effective bypass capacitors close to a chip,
difficult.

3) Plastics : esp Nylon, on warm humid days insulation resistance
suffers (too low).

4) Contamination : Solder scrapes off the leads and can build up causing
shorts.
The adhesive makes it difficult to blow the scrap away with compressed
air. (courtesy of Scott Bowman, Dublin CA.)

Bob concludes...

"I didn't even think about these solderless breadboards when I wrote my
series
because I see them so rarely at work. They just have too many
disadvantages
to be good for any serious work. So, if you insist on using these slabs
of trouble,
don't say that I didn't warn you."

The breadboards are like SPICE in many ways. They let you try an idea
quickly.
In either case... I would not trust a SPICE simulation until I had built
the real thing
and compared the performance (to improve both the circuit, and the spice
models).

Be afraid... be very afraid...   :^P

H^) harry





From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  1 19:40:03 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 13:40:03 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk> <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default>
Message-ID: <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net>

for heaven's sake... at those prices why not go to Futurlec and
buy the CA3280 instead ???

H^) harry

scottnoanh at peoplepc.com wrote:

> Listed at Debco Electronics, $0.99 apiece.
>
> http://www.debcoelectronics.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aaron Lanterman" <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 1:40 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
>
> >
> > As sort of the reverse corallary to my last question...
> >
> > Jameco has them for $2.95 each, $2.65 for 10+, which is a bit pricey...
> >
> > ...or is that as cheap as they come nowadays?
> >
> > - Aaron



From scottnoanh at peoplepc.com  Sun Jan  1 19:49:06 2006
From: scottnoanh at peoplepc.com (scottnoanh at peoplepc.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:49:06 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk> <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default>

Listed at Debco Electronics, $0.99 apiece.

http://www.debcoelectronics.com/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Lanterman" <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 1:40 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?


> 
> As sort of the reverse corallary to my last question...
> 
> Jameco has them for $2.95 each, $2.65 for 10+, which is a bit pricey...
> 
> ...or is that as cheap as they come nowadays?
> 
> - Aaron


From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Jan  1 20:03:58 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:03:58 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
Message-ID: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7>

A couple of things occurred to me after I hit "send".

I think a critical error is to consider a circuit "working" until a
prototype is assembled with solder and is tested.  I consider SBB for proof
of concept only.  Although I will admit that I actually recorded once
through a circuit on SBB.  

Also, in my opinion, a theatrical light dimmer circuit is something I would
consider a power circuit.  I would never have tried that on SBB.  Anything
that can potentially generate more heat than I can handle on my skin for
about 10 seconds is more than I'd want on SBB.

And I apologize for using "SSB" instead of "SBB" (blame=aging brain)...

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sun Jan  1 20:24:00 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:24:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
 <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default> <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, harrybissell wrote:

> for heaven's sake... at those prices why not go to Futurlec and
> buy the CA3280 instead ???

> H^) harry

Have you had good luck with them? I had heard futurlec might be a bit 
dodgy.

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sun Jan  1 20:33:02 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:33:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
 <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
 <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011430360.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, harrybissell wrote:

> (it will obsolete my favored technique, vectorboard and T42-A pins)

Tell us about T42-A pins, Uncle Harry!

;)

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B



From rtellason at blazenet.net  Sun Jan  1 20:40:28 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:40:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] FETs for distortion
In-Reply-To: <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <200601011440.28389.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Sunday 01 January 2006 01:11 am, harrybissell wrote:
> "Roy J. Tellason" wrote:
> > The 4049 is capable of being used as a level-shifter,  where the logic
> > swing at the inputs can exceed the power supply voltage by a signficant
> > amount. It's also in a 16-pin package compared to the 14-pin package of
> > the 4069.
>
> but... two of the 4049 pins are not connected. Doesn't that count ???   :^P

Only if you know about the 4009 and 4010...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From mikei at marketbridge.ca  Sun Jan  1 20:43:02 2006
From: mikei at marketbridge.ca (Mike I.)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:43:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Redesigning CA3080 circuits to use LM13600/13700?
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk> <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <43B815EF.D6562D39@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <003101c60f0b$946fa740$5901010a@d3b0d5>

One gotcha to be aware of is that the Iabc input on the 13600/13700 uses a
different internal current mirror circuit than the 3080... it sits at a
nominal 2 Vbe above the (-) supply pin, where the 3080 sits at one Vbe above
the (-) supply pin. Not normally a problem with the typical expo current
sources and linear current sources used in filters, VCAs etc running on +/-
15V... but could create difficulties with low-voltage battery-powered stuff.
Cheers, Mike




From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Jan  1 20:50:05 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:50:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
Message-ID: <200601012050.k01Ko5p25281@linux7>

harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
>> Also, in my opinion, a theatrical light dimmer circuit is something I would
>> consider a power circuit.  I would never have tried that on SBB.  Anything
>> that can potentially generate more heat than I can handle on my skin for
>> about 10 seconds is more than I'd want on SBB.
>>
>
>only the control circuit was on the breadboard... the power section was
>on an appropriate PCB. The problem was not the application, but the
>method used.
>
>For slow digital circuits (like old TTL) in educational environment, the
>SBB is probably 'ok'. I'd need to keep in mind that many 'newbies' might
>screw themselves worse with soldering irons than with the breadboard.
>
>Most of the vectorboard prototypes I have done (well... if they worked out)
>are in permanent enclosures and still working after 5, 10, 20 years... try THAT
>with
>an SBB.

This is entirely my point.  I would never try that.  That is something well
beyond proof of concept.

>
>Its also good to invest in the real prototype... you can try it later and
>compare to a PCB if you like.
>
>I had an envelope follower proto... and I picked it up later when I thought
>that
>I had made an error. (I'm thinking... it could not have possibly been THIS bad
>when
>I did it originally... ).  It wasn't... the new circuit had a damaged opamp.
>The original
>proto was still working well.
>
>(again... try THAT with an SBB... it would be disassembled by now :^)

Why wouldn't detection of a bad opamp be possible?  Because components are
easily swapped, this is something that I've done, even where illogical and as a
last resort.  One doesn't expect bad components unless they are from dubious
sources, however, there can be the odd new part that just won't work.  And my
opinion of this scenario is that the fault was not the SBB, it was the opamp.

>
>Sometimes... I take apart and recycle Vectorboard protos... if they were
>totally
>useless. The only downside (imho) is the cost of the pins... about $.04 each. A
>
>two cent resistor costs eight cents to install.  otoh... if you need to change
>the
>value... the pins allow that with almost unlimited re-soldering capacity.  I
>pull the
>old one out, heat the pin and slide the x-acto knife in the slot to keep it
>open.
>Put in new part, resolder. After about ten times... you might need some
>solderwick.
>
>here's a thought... A BBD in an SBB  :^P

Well, I think a BBD circuit would work mostly as well as it can on an SBB.

           (c;


>
>H^) harry
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 20:50:13 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:50:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <200601011913.k01JDlp19855@linux7>
References: <200601011913.k01JDlp19855@linux7>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601011150o247720e6r5cb63cfd30a1f9c5@mail.gmail.com>

Very recent experience, from my engineer-wanna-be levels of knowledge. ;)

3 or 4 days ago, after about 23 years of on / off use of my Radio Shack
breadboard (standard 6" long size), I finally destroyed it, out of
frustration:
- non-conductive contacts, was the main one
- unable to push pins into holes
- poor conductivity
were the main problems.

In 23 years, such a divice has a greater chance of coming into environments
with higher humidity as it had quite often, over the years; especially the
last 3 or 4 years.

Having 2 test circuits barely working at all, without moving a chip back and
forth in it's position, I gave up in frustration, removing all of the parts
and wires and using a screwdriver to rip portions of the board off of the
metal mounting base.
Lo'n'behold, starting back at me are huge amounts of the blue'ish corrosion
of copper colour, on a large # of pin contacts. :P
I haven't thrown the breadboard out yet.  Just thinking of it now - I'm
going to take a pic or 2 of it, and post it to my webpage, as a partial
warning of one thing that can happen to it. :(

Thankfully - I still have another, that's only about 10 years old, and still
seems to be working fine. :)

They're great for testing ideas quickly, by just plopping parts in and
powering it all up. :)  I've done a fair amount of design over the years
with them, and I'll continue to use them. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

P.S.  Happy New Year everyone. :D

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
3005 update
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From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Jan  1 21:13:31 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 13:13:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
Message-ID: <200601012113.k01LDVp27121@linux7>

harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
>> I do not use simulation software principally because in is _NOT_ physical
>> electronics and it's quirks can be vexing, even with the best and most
>> expensive simulators.  Yes, they can work, but no, not always and when
>> they don't it can be frustrating to understand why.  I will even
>> speculate that it's possible for a simulator to give a result indicating
>> a design works when it will not in a physical circuit due to limitations
>> in component simulation parameters (models).  While this may be rare, it
>> can happen.
>
>wha ?...     RARE ???

Well, now I know (c;

>Its not rare at all. Its very common (of course if you don't USE simulation you
>
>wouldn't know HOW common...)

Ah.

>First of all... a LOT of models (especially the 'defaut' models that simulate
>quickly)
>do not look for obvious dumb mistakes.  Try feeding a 741 opamp a +/-100V
>supply and it will probably allow you almost 200Vpk-pk output... minus the
>maybe
>1.5V off the rail.  Hope you didn't try that.  My simulator was happy to go to
>KV
>on the supply pins.

That's actually humorous  (c:

>Transistors are prefectly matched. So you can design (say...) a discrete OTA
>and
>the performance will be fantastic.  The trannies will all be at the same
>temperature
>as well...even if one is conducting uA's and another A's...
>
>I'm not as rabid as Bob Pease (who hates SPICE totally)... but Scott is right
>here.
>Unless you verify the results in the real world, you will get hurt !
>
>I don't quite agree about the SBB having 'real world' physics problems. Its not
>that
>the SBB has capacitance, or contact resistance...  but that these are not
>always
>the same every time.  You can't (like the simulations) count on them.

Right, but if you constrain the use of an SBB to things it _can_ do and stay
away from things it can't, I think it serves a proper place in an electronics
laboratory.  I am always very aware that there can be problems introduced,
however, I think that most DC to 20KHz, low power cicruits can be adequately
"proof of concept" tested - on a good quality, unabused SBB.  And only the
actual finished, chassis installed with PCBs project is a prototype.  And the
fact remains that every problem with an SBB is a physical electronic component,
even if it varies in performance.  These things don't scare me away, but they
have modified my behavior.  As a result, I've been more than pleased with SBB
results, they've shown me where my designs are wrong, helped me correct them,
and either proved or disproved a concept.


>Many folks hate IC sockets... then why put every component in a socket ???
>
>OK. Its quick and easy, and it might work.  As long as you're not doing rocket
>science... enjoy enjoy...  :^P

Oh, I have and I will...  (c;

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  1 21:34:43 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:34:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
References: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7>
Message-ID: <43B83CE0.ACC5DDF7@prodigy.net>

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> Also, in my opinion, a theatrical light dimmer circuit is something I would
> consider a power circuit.  I would never have tried that on SBB.  Anything
> that can potentially generate more heat than I can handle on my skin for
> about 10 seconds is more than I'd want on SBB.
>

only the control circuit was on the breadboard... the power section was
on an appropriate PCB. The problem was not the application, but the
method used.

For slow digital circuits (like old TTL) in educational environment, the
SBB is probably 'ok'. I'd need to keep in mind that many 'newbies' might
screw themselves worse with soldering irons than with the breadboard.

Most of the vectorboard prototypes I have done (well... if they worked out)
are in permanent enclosures and still working after 5, 10, 20 years... try THAT
with
an SBB.

Its also good to invest in the real prototype... you can try it later and
compare to
a PCB if you like.

I had an envelope follower proto... and I picked it up later when I thought
that
I had made an error. (I'm thinking... it could not have possibly been THIS bad
when
I did it originally... ).  It wasn't... the new circuit had a damaged opamp.
The original
proto was still working well.

(again... try THAT with an SBB... it would be disassembled by now :^)

Sometimes... I take apart and recycle Vectorboard protos... if they were
totally
useless. The only downside (imho) is the cost of the pins... about $.04 each. A

two cent resistor costs eight cents to install.  otoh... if you need to change
the
value... the pins allow that with almost unlimited re-soldering capacity.  I
pull the
old one out, heat the pin and slide the x-acto knife in the slot to keep it
open.
Put in new part, resolder. After about ten times... you might need some
solderwick.

here's a thought... A BBD in an SBB  :^P

H^) harry




From jmahoney at gate.net  Sun Jan  1 21:38:01 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:38:01 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas Henry's Potpourri Module questions
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <038e01c60f13$42552770$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

> ... the Lag Time pot seems to do nothing. 

Okay...


> The lag is defiantly there ...

Well, I guess that's another way to put it.

;-)  :-D

Happy 2006, everybody!
--
john



From jmahoney at gate.net  Sun Jan  1 21:38:12 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:38:12 -0500
Subject: ARP 2500-style matrix (Re: [sdiy] Breadboards)
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com> <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com> <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <038f01c60f13$491cfe70$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

Harry wrote:
> Bob Pease made the following points in his book "Troubleshooting Analog
> Circuits"
> 
> 1) Capacitance: 2-5 pF between adjacent strips ...

Is capacitance an issue with matrix switches like those on the ARP 2500?
--
john


From jmahoney at gate.net  Sun Jan  1 21:39:32 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:39:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
References: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7>
Message-ID: <039401c60f13$785ec5b0$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

Scott wrote:
> 
> And I apologize for using "SSB" instead of "SBB" (blame=aging brain)...

Hmm... Were you a CB-er, good buddy? ;-)
--
john



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  1 21:41:38 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:41:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Redesigning CA3080 circuits to use LM13600/13700?
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk> <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <43B815EF.D6562D39@prodigy.net> <003101c60f0b$946fa740$5901010a@d3b0d5>
Message-ID: <43B83E80.C3E8F90A@prodigy.net>

Woah, good point Unkel Mike.

I never noticed that before. I've been assuming 2Vbe for simulations in both
cases. (well, for simulating the current sources driving the OTA).

I'm enlightened :^P

H^) harry

"Mike I." wrote:

> One gotcha to be aware of is that the Iabc input on the 13600/13700 uses a
> different internal current mirror circuit than the 3080... it sits at a
> nominal 2 Vbe above the (-) supply pin, where the 3080 sits at one Vbe above
> the (-) supply pin. Not normally a problem with the typical expo current
> sources and linear current sources used in filters, VCAs etc running on +/-
> 15V... but could create difficulties with low-voltage battery-powered stuff.
> Cheers, Mike



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  1 21:53:05 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:53:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
References: <200601011913.k01JDlp19855@linux7>
Message-ID: <43B8412E.316DF9EB@prodigy.net>

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> I do not use simulation software principally because in is _NOT_ physical
> electronics and it's quirks can be vexing, even with the best and most
> expensive simulators.  Yes, they can work, but no, not always and when
> they don't it can be frustrating to understand why.  I will even
> speculate that it's possible for a simulator to give a result indicating
> a design works when it will not in a physical circuit due to limitations
> in component simulation parameters (models).  While this may be rare, it
> can happen.

wha ?...     RARE ???

Its not rare at all. Its very common (of course if you don't USE simulation you

wouldn't know HOW common...)

First of all... a LOT of models (especially the 'defaut' models that simulate
quickly)
do not look for obvious dumb mistakes.  Try feeding a 741 opamp a +/-100V
supply and it will probably allow you almost 200Vpk-pk output... minus the
maybe
1.5V off the rail.  Hope you didn't try that.  My simulator was happy to go to
KV
on the supply pins.

Transistors are prefectly matched. So you can design (say...) a discrete OTA
and
the performance will be fantastic.  The trannies will all be at the same
temperature
as well...even if one is conducting uA's and another A's...

I'm not as rabid as Bob Pease (who hates SPICE totally)... but Scott is right
here.
Unless you verify the results in the real world, you will get hurt !

I don't quite agree about the SBB having 'real world' physics problems. Its not
that
the SBB has capacitance, or contact resistance...  but that these are not
always
the same every time.  You can't (like the simulations) count on them.

Many folks hate IC sockets... then why put every component in a socket ???

OK. Its quick and easy, and it might work.  As long as you're not doing rocket
science... enjoy enjoy...  :^P

H^) harry



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sun Jan  1 21:56:47 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:56:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
In-Reply-To: <43B83CE0.ACC5DDF7@prodigy.net>
References: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7> <43B83CE0.ACC5DDF7@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011550420.24054@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, harrybissell wrote:

> For slow digital circuits (like old TTL) in educational environment, the
> SBB is probably 'ok'. I'd need to keep in mind that many 'newbies' might
> screw themselves worse with soldering irons than with the breadboard.

Speaking of which, I nailed myself with a soldering iron for the first 
time a couple of weeks ago while putting together my MOTM 485...

I simply did something stupid - I did something that you really needed 
three hands for, which I should know better than to try with only two 
hands - I was holding the soldering iron in my right hand, and holding a 
pot onto the board with my thumb and index finger on my left hand, and 
holding the solder with the other fingers on my left hand.

I slipped, got a good inch of the iron across the top of my hand by my 
thumb. Felt like an idiot, I have no idea what possessed me to try that.

Immediately went and ran cold water over it for a while. It didn't 
actually look to bad at first - just some flakey white, and didn't hurt 
much if at all - I mostly couldn't feel it. Maybe the heat obliterated all 
the nerves or something.

Then the next day came, and then the next day. The nerves apparently 
started growing back and then I saw how deep the heat had gotten in such a 
short amount of time...

EWWWWW. OWWWWW.

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B



From megaohm1 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 22:09:47 2006
From: megaohm1 at gmail.com (megaohm)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:09:47 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <a6fac3a00601011309w103a4607v9f166e83d0d077db@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/1/06, harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> Why I don't use breadboards - by H^) harry
>
>
> He got a commercial prospect to come and see the design. Of course the
> solderless breadboard chose that time to fail.



His mistake was not committing the circuit to perfboard before he met with
the commercial interest

2) Long leads : make adding effective bypass capacitors close to a chip,
> difficult.



This is easy for dual opamps with power at pins 4 and 8. Just use a jumper
from ground to the row above pin 8 and below pin 4. The long leads from the
cap? Clip 'em.

I'm working with a professor at the Art Institute of Chicago and he hates
breadboards. I couldn't understand why until I tried one there. They are old
and abused. New breadboards don't give me those problems.

A 23 year old breadboard!? Wow. I never guessed they could last so long.
When my boards (I have a bunch) develop bad tracks, are hard to insert
components, or are melted(!) , I just spend five bucks for a new one.

I can see some circuits would suffer badly from the capacitance, but this
has happened very seldom (for me at least).

I learned to always breadboard first from being disappointed by the
component and/or feature choice for some (most) purchased pcbs. In fact, now
I would never build a circuit, no matter who it was from, without building
it on breadboard and testing/tweaking/experimenting with it first. By the
time I'm finished with that, I usually don't want to use the pcb anymore
because the circuit might have changed (evolved/devolved) to such a point
that the pcb doesn't help much (for finished circuits, I'm a perfboard kind
of guy).

The breadboard is/can be so fast. Instant gratification. Someone posted a
heads-up yesterday on a newer Ken Stone design: Slope Detector. In a half
hour it was on the breadboard and being tested. It does have a problem which
may be caused by a bad connection on the breadboard. First step after the
usual checking for user mistakes is to rebuild it on another board (no
problem for such a simple circuit). Obviously for bigger circuits this can
be a chore. But this is my school and my educational process.

That's my 2cents,
peng

http://home.comcast.net/~peng5002/mainpage.htm
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From mcbinc at panix.com  Sun Jan  1 22:23:12 2006
From: mcbinc at panix.com (mcb, inc.)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:23:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011550420.24054@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7> <43B83CE0.ACC5DDF7@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011550420.24054@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601011618510.20270@panix1.panix.com>

On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

> I slipped, got a good inch of the iron across the top of my hand by my thumb. 
> Felt like an idiot, I have no idea what possessed me to try that.

[ Oooh, veterans' war stories.  How can I pass this up... ]

That's just SOP for working with a soldering iron.  Working without
a soldering stand, feeding solder with my mouth, holding component
to board with one hand, I grab the wrong end of the iron and in
that moment before the pain really registers have time to think:
*this* is going to hurt.

m

--
Monty Brandenberg


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Jan  1 22:36:08 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:36:08 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601011618510.20270@panix1.panix.com>
References: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7> <43B83CE0.ACC5DDF7@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011550420.24054@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601011618510.20270@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <43B84B48.7050903@burnit.co.uk>

mcb, inc. wrote:

> feeding solder with my mouth

hmm ... I'm thinking maybe there are some health reasons for all this 
Pb-free RoHS compliance stuff ... ;)




From sonicwarrior at gmx.de  Sun Jan  1 22:36:46 2006
From: sonicwarrior at gmx.de (Joachim)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 22:36:46 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] ADSR PC boards available
In-Reply-To: <000501c60e67$06ab7c80$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
References: <200512311747.25756.rtellason@blazenet.net> <000501c60e67$06ab7c80$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
Message-ID: <0122744e86daca9b453a00c8418384c2@gmx.de>

Hi,

btw.: Are the PCBs for the dual VCA now revised with holes and
bottom pads for R2 and R24?

Or is there still a need to drill or tack soldering these resistors?
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/DLLVCA001/DLLVCA001.html

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Joachim

Am 01.01.2006 um 01:05 schrieb Ray Wilson:

> Hi Everyone.
>
> I have a nice ADSR project that I have boards for if you are 
> interested. You can make your own boards too.
> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/ADSR001/ADSR001.html
>
> Cheers and Happy New Years to everyone.
>
> Ray



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sun Jan  1 22:44:20 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:44:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601011618510.20270@panix1.panix.com>
References: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7> <43B83CE0.ACC5DDF7@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011550420.24054@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601011618510.20270@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011643040.24127@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, mcb, inc. wrote:

> That's just SOP for working with a soldering iron.  Working without
> a soldering stand, feeding solder with my mouth, holding component

My goodness, it never occured to me to use my mouth during the soldering 
process...

...I'm thinking I'm probably not going to start!

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B



From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Sun Jan  1 22:45:55 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:45:55 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk><200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net><Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu><Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu><001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default> <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <001a01c60f1c$c1a2a300$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com>

Just expect a wait from my experience.  The quality is good though.  Also,
beware if you order capacitors, as the bags are labeled wrong about 1/3 of
the time.

----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?


>
> On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, harrybissell wrote:
>
> > for heaven's sake... at those prices why not go to Futurlec and
> > buy the CA3280 instead ???
>
> > H^) harry
>
> Have you had good luck with them? I had heard futurlec might be a bit
> dodgy.
>
> - Aaron
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> Mail Code 0250                         Web:
users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
> Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>
>



From 23isgood at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 23:04:41 2006
From: 23isgood at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:04:41 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas Henry's Potpourri Module questions
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dc5946590601011404h7750680dra866aa6d1c768e75@mail.gmail.com>

 So is the external threshold input on the comparator is just a fixed value
since the pot is disconnected from the circuit, unless you plug in an LFO or
something like that? On the lag processor the buffer input does not seem to
be very useful? I will double check everything again but as far as I can
tell everything else is working fine except the Lag pot. Also I'm using a 2
- TL082's since I don't have a TL084 can this be a prob?

thanks for the help
pete

On 1/1/06, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. <rykhaard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 12/31/05, Pete <23isgood at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Hi everybody. I'm building this circuit at the moment from Thomas
> > Henry's old book, "Build a Better Synthesizer", and I wanted to learn how to
> > use it. At the moment I got it on the breadboard and while testing, the Lag
> > Time pot seems to do nothing. The lag is defiantly there but I wanted to
> > know if I should change the pot to a different value?  Now I don't
> > understand what the Buffer input on the Lag Processor is for?
>
>
> Being on a breadboard, make absolutely sure of each connection listed on
> the schematic, being exactly as it should be, on the breadboard. :O
> Sorry if I'm stating this strongly, but I just destroyed a 20+ year old
> breadboard of mine a couple of days ago, due to VERY bad contacts inside of
> it.  Opening it up - sure enough, many of the pins were corroded. :(
> Also - breadboards CAN be very fussy as to whether they're making the
> contact or not. :(
>
> The 1 meg value for the pot, is a very good value, for Portamento.  You
> could use a 100k value as well, but you wouldn't be able to have, as long a
> time for Portamento, as you would with a 1 meg pot.
>
> The Buffer input in this schematic, is serving 2 potential functions.
> - If you're inputing the signal straight to the buffer, then that signal
> will be Buffered (exactly the same) at the output of the Buffer's opamp.
> - If you're inputting the signal into the Lag input, the Buffer will act
> as a buffer to hold the voltage as it grows, across the capacitor.  The pot,
> is limiting how quickly that cap will charge up TO, the value that you are
> feeding into it.  This is what gives you the slide UP or DOWN in the output
> version from the buffer, of your input value. :)
>
> Also what is a comparator and how is it used? I appreciate any help you
> > guys could share. I uploaded a small archive with the pages from the book,
> > check it out,
>
>
> A Comparator will output either of 2 voltages:
>
> - a HIGH voltage (almost to the power supply's + level of that opamp /
> comparator chip)
> - a LOW voltage (almost to the power supply's - level of that opamp /
> comparator chip)
>
> How this works.  The Comparator in this circuit, is set up so that you are
> able to specify a Voltage Level, that you wish to be told, when it is
> crossed, by your Comparator Input voltage.
>
> You may specify this level either with the pot that is hooked up to the +
> power supply or the - power supply, or the External Voltage (Threshold)
> Input or both at once.
>
> When your Comparator Voltage input is HIGHer than your Threshold, then the
> Comparator will output a HIGH voltage.  When the Comparator Voltage input is
> LOWer than your Threshold, then the Comparator will output a LOW voltage.
>
> :)
>
> I hope that helps you somewhat, at least. :)  Any other questions - fire
> away. :D
>
>  <http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2HPG2VCS78I1C2751DLJ7JH2BF>thanks
> > pete
> >
> > --
>
>
> Nada trubba. :D
>
> www.cubanpetemusic.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
>
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
> 2705 update




--
listen to my tunes,

http://www.cubanpetemusic.com/12_21_04%20final%20mix.mp3

www.cubanpetemusic.com
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 00:58:06 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 18:58:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas Henry's Potpourri Module questions
In-Reply-To: <dc5946590601011404h7750680dra866aa6d1c768e75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <dc5946590601011404h7750680dra866aa6d1c768e75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601011558y71391030t90f58fd057c228f1@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/1/06, Pete <23isgood at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  So is the external threshold input on the comparator is just a fixed
> value since the pot is disconnected from the circuit,


Yes.  :)  As long as the Voltage that you're popping into the External is
unchanging - your Reference at the Comparator, is unchanging. :)

unless you plug in an LFO or something like that? On the lag processor the
> buffer input does not seem to be very useful?


On the Lag processor, the buffer is VERY useful - for the Lag processor's
output. :O :)  If you didn't have a buffer after that cap, then as soon as
there's a place for the Cap. to discharge to, it will.  :O :(
The Buffer itself, is giving the cap an almost impossible route, for
discharging.  The only other place that it can discharge to, is back where
it came from.  (I.E.  A lower voltage at the Lag Input, will allow the Cap.
to discharge to that level, through the Lag Time pot.)
Outside of THAT - if the Buffer is used by itself, it is still very useful
for buffering the input from something else, where it may be needed..

I will double check everything again but as far as I can tell everything
> else is working fine except the Lag pot. Also I'm using a 2 - TL082's since
> I don't have a TL084 can this be a prob?


Here - just make sure that you check the pin connections on the 082s.  For
reference:

TL084, TL084, LF347, LM347:
1 - opamp #1 Output
2 - opamp #1 - Input
3 - opamp #1 + Input
4 - +V
5 - opamp #2 + Input
6 - opamp #2 - Input
7 - opamp #2 Output

8 - opamp #3 Output
9 - opamp #3 - Input
10 - opamp #3 + Input
11 - -V
12 - opamp #4 + Input
13 - opamp #4 - Input
14 - opamp #4 Output

TL082, TL072, LF353, LF412, RC4558, RC4559, ad nausum
1 - opamp #1 Output
2 - opamp #1 - Input
3 - opamp #1 + Input
4 - -V

5 - opamp #2 + Input
6 - opamp #2 - Input
7 - opamp #3 Output
8 - +V

thanks for the help
> pete
>

No problem. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
2705 update
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From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Jan  2 01:58:45 2006
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:58:45 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com> <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com> <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <43B87AC5.8050402@ix.netcom.com>

Shall we call 'em "Murphy Boards"?
Happy New Year and Pease on Earth all.
- Oren


harrybissell wrote:
> Why I don't use breadboards - by H^) harry
> 
> When I was in college, a good friend of mine designed a circuit.
> It was a theatrical light dimmer. Back in those dark days... many
> theatrical light dimmers were still mechanical, or motor driven
> rheostats
> or variable transformers. There were some commercial thyristor designs,
> but
> they were still in their infancy. (no... they didn't use gaslights back
> then :^)
> 
> The design was a voltage controlled dimmer. 0-10V in for full range
> control.
> 
> He got a commercial prospect to come and see the design. Of course the
> solderless breadboard chose that time to fail. He begged and pleaded...
> just
> five more minutes, it works I swear it does...  Well the guy gave him an
> hour
> to no avail.
> 
> Two hours later, he found a wire that had snuck through a gap in-between
> rows
> and shorted.
> 
> Two hours too late, too bad.  The opportunity was gone.
> 
> LOL... we had a small breadboard at work.  When we were forced to 'clean
> the lab' I helped by offering to throw it away.  It was the ONE thing I
> was sure we would never
> miss :^P
> 
> SMT will certainly obsolete the solderless breadboard. Maybe SMT is not
> ALL bad :^)
> (it will obsolete my favored technique, vectorboard and T42-A pins)
> 
> If you like to use breadboards, that's cool. They were mainly used for
> teaching
> basic electronics in schools, so that parts etc could be re-used. Kind
> of like what they
> do with SPICE today.
> 
> Bob Pease made the following points in his book "Troubleshooting Analog
> Circuits"
> 
> 1) Capacitance: 2-5 pF between adjacent strips "On a good day, only a
> wise engineer
> could plan a layout that all the capacitors, sprinkled throughout the
> circuit, wouldn't ruin"
> 
> 2) Long leads : make adding effective bypass capacitors close to a chip,
> difficult.
> 
> 3) Plastics : esp Nylon, on warm humid days insulation resistance
> suffers (too low).
> 
> 4) Contamination : Solder scrapes off the leads and can build up causing
> shorts.
> The adhesive makes it difficult to blow the scrap away with compressed
> air. (courtesy of Scott Bowman, Dublin CA.)
> 
> Bob concludes...
> 
> "I didn't even think about these solderless breadboards when I wrote my
> series
> because I see them so rarely at work. They just have too many
> disadvantages
> to be good for any serious work. So, if you insist on using these slabs
> of trouble,
> don't say that I didn't warn you."
> 
> The breadboards are like SPICE in many ways. They let you try an idea
> quickly.
> In either case... I would not trust a SPICE simulation until I had built
> the real thing
> and compared the performance (to improve both the circuit, and the spice
> models).
> 
> Be afraid... be very afraid...   :^P
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 
> 
> 


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  2 02:16:29 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:16:29 -0500
Subject: ARP 2500-style matrix (Re: [sdiy] Breadboards)
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com> <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com> <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net> <038f01c60f13$491cfe70$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>
Message-ID: <43B87EEC.324FD0BD@prodigy.net>

in a word... yes

whether you notice is another story. Most of the outputs will be low
impedance.
If you had a squrewave running adjacent to a sine wave, the sine will get
corrupted.

H^) harry

john mahoney wrote:

> Harry wrote:
> > Bob Pease made the following points in his book "Troubleshooting Analog
> > Circuits"
> >
> > 1) Capacitance: 2-5 pF between adjacent strips ...
>
> Is capacitance an issue with matrix switches like those on the ARP 2500?
> --
> john



From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Jan  2 02:39:05 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:39:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
Message-ID: <200601020239.k022d5p27013@linux7>

harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
>>
>> >I had an envelope follower proto... and I picked it up later when I thought
>> >that
>> >I had made an error. (I'm thinking... it could not have possibly been THIS bad
>> >when
>> >I did it originally... ).  It wasn't... the new circuit had a damaged opamp.
>> >The original
>> >proto was still working well.
>> >
>> >(again... try THAT with an SBB... it would be disassembled by now :^)
>>
>> Why wouldn't detection of a bad opamp be possible?  Because components are
>> easily swapped, this is something that I've done, even where illogical and as a
>> last resort.  One doesn't expect bad components unless they are from dubious
>> sources, however, there can be the odd new part that just won't work.  And my
>> opinion of this scenario is that the fault was not the SBB, it was the opamp.
>
>my point is... you don't KEEP any circuit on an SBB... 

I agree, it's not meant for permanent circuits.

>you trash them when you
>build the next. 

That is true and by that time, I have create a soldered version on stripboard that
is functional.  I always create the stripboard version with new parts without
disassembling the SBB version.  That way, I have an easy way to compare
measurements if things don't work as expected.

>All the work is lost at that point. 

You lost me here.  I copy the work to stripboard after proof of concept testing on
SBB.  I see nothing lost, I still have a working, but now permanent prototype copy
of my circuit.

>I suppose I could disassemble
>each
>vectorboard... but one method encourages 'recycling', the other discourages...

I'm unsure of what you're expressing here - that recycling parts is good - or bad?
 Or neither?  Regardless, I don't see this as an SBB disadvantage.


>H^) harry
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  2 03:10:56 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:10:56 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
References: <200601012050.k01Ko5p25281@linux7>
Message-ID: <43B88BAE.B202719A@prodigy.net>

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>
> >I had an envelope follower proto... and I picked it up later when I thought
> >that
> >I had made an error. (I'm thinking... it could not have possibly been THIS bad
> >when
> >I did it originally... ).  It wasn't... the new circuit had a damaged opamp.
> >The original
> >proto was still working well.
> >
> >(again... try THAT with an SBB... it would be disassembled by now :^)
>
> Why wouldn't detection of a bad opamp be possible?  Because components are
> easily swapped, this is something that I've done, even where illogical and as a
> last resort.  One doesn't expect bad components unless they are from dubious
> sources, however, there can be the odd new part that just won't work.  And my
> opinion of this scenario is that the fault was not the SBB, it was the opamp.

my point is... you don't KEEP any circuit on an SBB... you trash them when you
build the next. All the work is lost at that point. I suppose I could disassemble
each
vectorboard... but one method encourages 'recycling', the other discourages...

H^) harry



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  2 03:21:08 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:21:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
References: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7> <43B83CE0.ACC5DDF7@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011550420.24054@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601011618510.20270@panix1.panix.com> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011643040.24127@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <43B88E12.E8EE7C43@prodigy.net>

<blonde mode on>

like...DUH !!!

you don't put the SOLDER in your mouth. That would be really stupid
and it contains a substance knonw to the State of California to be
a carcinogen and cause birth defects.

you put the SOLDERING IRON in your mouth.  Be sure the cord is in
good shape or you may get this tingly feeling...

and as was mentioned earlier...watch out for the hot end. I usually
put itin my mouth when its cold... so if I make a mistake I can spit
it out before I burn myself... :^P

</bmo>

H^) harry

Aaron Lanterman wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, mcb, inc. wrote:
>
> > That's just SOP for working with a soldering iron.  Working without
> > a soldering stand, feeding solder with my mouth, holding component
>
> My goodness, it never occured to me to use my mouth during the soldering
> process...
>
> ...I'm thinking I'm probably not going to start!
>
> - Aaron
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
> Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B



From patchell at cox.net  Mon Jan  2 03:33:03 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:33:03 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <a6fac3a00601011309w103a4607v9f166e83d0d077db@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
 <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
 <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
 <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060101182450.00b6c878@pop.west.cox.net>

Guess I better add my two cents to this...

I have used solderless bread boards since 1973.  I have used them to test 
out many designs...some simple...some complex.  Some of the analog...some 
of the digital...some of them both.  I have never had a single failure on 
any of the circuits...and every single one performed exactly the same when 
it was committed to a production PCB....

Now there is one funny story in there...one of the projects I did had a 
strange glitch in it that I could not figure out...the chief engineer, who 
wanted to keep to schedule, said..."Those damn solderless boards don't work 
very and is probably the source of the problem..."....well, he was 
wrong...the PC board worked exactly the same way...I still am using that 
same SBB today...if you treat them kindly...they will last a long 
time....although, it is showing its age...wonder how old it is in dog years?


At 03:09 PM 1/1/2006 -0600, megaohm wrote:


>On 1/1/06, harrybissell 
><<mailto:harrybissell at prodigy.net>harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>Why I don't use breadboards - by H^) harry
>
>
>He got a commercial prospect to come and see the design. Of course the
>solderless breadboard chose that time to fail.
>
>
>
>His mistake was not committing the circuit to perfboard before he met with 
>the commercial interest
>
>2) Long leads : make adding effective bypass capacitors close to a chip,
>difficult.
>
>
>
>This is easy for dual opamps with power at pins 4 and 8. Just use a jumper 
>from ground to the row above pin 8 and below pin 4. The long leads from 
>the cap? Clip 'em.
>
>I'm working with a professor at the Art Institute of Chicago and he hates 
>breadboards. I couldn't understand why until I tried one there. They are 
>old and abused. New breadboards don't give me those problems.
>
>A 23 year old breadboard!? Wow. I never guessed they could last so long. 
>When my boards (I have a bunch) develop bad tracks, are hard to insert 
>components, or are melted(!) , I just spend five bucks for a new one.
>
>I can see some circuits would suffer badly from the capacitance, but this 
>has happened very seldom (for me at least).
>
>I learned to always breadboard first from being disappointed by the 
>component and/or feature choice for some (most) purchased pcbs. In fact, 
>now I would never build a circuit, no matter who it was from, without 
>building it on breadboard and testing/tweaking/experimenting with it 
>first. By the time I'm finished with that, I usually don't want to use the 
>pcb anymore because the circuit might have changed (evolved/devolved) to 
>such a point that the pcb doesn't help much (for finished circuits, I'm a 
>perfboard kind of guy).
>
>The breadboard is/can be so fast. Instant gratification. Someone posted a 
>heads-up yesterday on a newer Ken Stone design: Slope Detector. In a half 
>hour it was on the breadboard and being tested. It does have a problem 
>which may be caused by a bad connection on the breadboard. First step 
>after the usual checking for user mistakes is to rebuild it on another 
>board (no problem for such a simple circuit). Obviously for bigger 
>circuits this can be a chore. But this is my school and my educational 
>process.
>
>That's my 2cents,
>peng
>
><http://home.comcast.net/~peng5002/mainpage.htm>http://home.comcast.net/~peng5002/mainpage.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************




From rykhaard at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 03:45:44 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:45:44 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
In-Reply-To: <43B88E12.E8EE7C43@prodigy.net>
References: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7> <43B83CE0.ACC5DDF7@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011550420.24054@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601011618510.20270@panix1.panix.com>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011643040.24127@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <43B88E12.E8EE7C43@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601011845x445acb4ejd14bc85a54f0b096@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/1/06, harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> <blonde mode on>
>
> like...DUH !!!
>
> you don't put the SOLDER in your mouth. That would be really stupid
> and it contains a substance knonw to the State of California to be
> a carcinogen and cause birth defects.
>
> you put the SOLDERING IRON in your mouth.  Be sure the cord is in
> good shape or you may get this tingly feeling...


<Ryk Moment On>

ROFL!!!  OMG!  I was laughing away out loud, are your 'telling the proper
way to do it' - THINKING that you joking, in telling him to put the HOT END
in his mouth!  Laughing away, telling my girlfriend the story. :D

Then I read the next paragraph ......

and as was mentioned earlier...watch out for the hot end. I usually
> put itin my mouth when its cold... so if I make a mistake I can spit
> it out before I burn myself... :^P
>
> </bmo>


Ummmmm ohhhhhh.  </Ryk moment >  :D  Hahahaha.  You meant to HOLD the
soldering iron in mouth, rather than the tasty solder!  K.  :D  Ummmm
....... nice weather out, isn't it?  :D LOL
Back to hiding. :O  HAha.

H^) harry
>

<Not H^) harry> ;)
--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
2705 update
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From loscha at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 04:15:01 2006
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 14:15:01 +1100
Subject: Fwd: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <17035a3d0601011913w5ede4c11s692240a8a7372eee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
	 <5.2.1.1.2.20060101182450.00b6c878@pop.west.cox.net>
	 <006501c60f4a$c4c9e4c0$9705f504@default>
	 <17035a3d0601011913w5ede4c11s692240a8a7372eee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0601011915w74dfe816x2400722f50a9adc3@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a big fan of breadboards, sometimes because I'm too lazy to design
veroboard, too.
We use them at college all the time (we have Digitrainer ones, with switches
and stuff, and analog ones with meters and oscillators in them). I've just
got a plain breadboard, and it's my little friend.

 I've noticed, like Veroboard, it's sometimes a country thing. Vero seems
really big in AU and UK, but, harder to get lots of different types in other
places.

-Loscha

On 1/2/06, scottnoanh at peoplepc.com <scottnoanh at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> Personally, I love breadboards.  I've kept working circuits on them for
> years, and used them just as if they were built modules.  For the longest
> time, the main portion of my synth was breadboards.  I have *never* had a
> circuit fail because of the breadboard.  I have *never* had a circuit that
> worked on BB not work once transferred to a finished product.
>
> When I was building the DimC in partnership with Jeff Pontius, I placed
> the
> breadboard flotilla it occupied (one large breadboard and two satellite
> breadboards interconnected with wire) into a cardboard box, drove 190
> miles
> to Manhattan, KS, drug it down to his basement, hooked it up to a Blacet
> power supply, and drove his Prophet 5 through it into his system.  It
> sounded marvelous, especially in stereo.
>
> I'm a bit perplexed about the whole issue here.....
>
>
>
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From scottnoanh at peoplepc.com  Mon Jan  2 04:15:15 2006
From: scottnoanh at peoplepc.com (scottnoanh at peoplepc.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:15:15 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
References: <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net> <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com> <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com> <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net> <5.2.1.1.2.20060101182450.00b6c878@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <006501c60f4a$c4c9e4c0$9705f504@default>

Personally, I love breadboards.  I've kept working circuits on them for
years, and used them just as if they were built modules.  For the longest
time, the main portion of my synth was breadboards.  I have *never* had a
circuit fail because of the breadboard.  I have *never* had a circuit that
worked on BB not work once transferred to a finished product.

When I was building the DimC in partnership with Jeff Pontius, I placed the
breadboard flotilla it occupied (one large breadboard and two satellite
breadboards interconnected with wire) into a cardboard box, drove 190 miles
to Manhattan, KS, drug it down to his basement, hooked it up to a Blacet
power supply, and drove his Prophet 5 through it into his system.  It
sounded marvelous, especially in stereo.

I'm a bit perplexed about the whole issue here.....




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 05:07:31 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 04:07:31 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] UK source for cheap splined pots?
Message-ID: <43B8A703.5070602@burnit.co.uk>

Does anyone know a UK source for cheap 6mm splined pots, like Alpha 
RV160 series?  Rapid sell these ones, but the log values they stock are 
very limited (only 4K7 and 1M) - I want 100K log.

Thanks,
Seb




From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Mon Jan  2 05:38:09 2006
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 05:38:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] d/a, voltage references & multiplexing  considerations
Message-ID: <20060102043809.56313.qmail@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I'm after a d/a for audio use, high quality. I'm  thinking of using a 18-bit AD1861 with 0.008% THD (since i have them),  is this good for high-quality audio? I assume that i should use a good  voltage reference for the analog voltage in so i'm looking for  suggestions on components and circuits for that. Also i'm thinking that  since it supports 16x oversample i could multiplex it into a number of  outs using sample and holds, is this a bad idea?  Also, i'm a  little confused as how to wire the 1861 for voltage out, the only thing  i found on the net was someone hooking up Iout to SJ and RF to Vout and  then tie both together with a cap of mysterious value.
  
  any thoughts appreciated
  
  Karl
  
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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 06:03:52 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 05:03:52 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
Message-ID: <43B8B438.70001@burnit.co.uk>

Well, I've been getting some really nice results with using between 1 
and 3 stages of a 4069UB for distortion.  The MOSFET clipping has a 
really warm sound to it.  (Incidently the 4049 really wasn't so good - 
the clipping was way too asymmetrical.)  Anyway, more on this later .. 
I'll publish the final circuit in due course.

What I'm concerned about in my circuit design is whether it is safe to 
drive the 4069 beyond its absolute maximum input voltage.  The quoted 
absolute maximum range is -0.5V to VDD+0.5V (VDD=15 in my circuit).

The input current is limited by a 10K resistor (with a DC blocking cap 
in series before it), so although the opamp driving it can kick out up 
to 28V ptp, the voltage at the 4069 input gets clipped to approx 17V 
ptp.  This is a bit beyond the quoted absolute maximum, but I guess as 
long as the current through the internal protection diodes is limited by 
the 10K resistor then this is ok??  Is this a safe assumption?

Seb




From music at bradwofford.com  Mon Jan  2 06:16:49 2006
From: music at bradwofford.com (Brad Wofford)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 23:16:49 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Novice needs help
Message-ID: <857151362fb852400e807d536878b526@bradwofford.com>

I know this isn't exactly an analogue synth, however it's old and 
electronic so I'm hoping someone can give me any info that will help.

Here's the deal. I found a hammond "The Piper" organ on the cheap at a 
thrift store "$19". It works (at least the parts that I need work). So 
I'm trying to rob all the good parts to use seperately. What I would 
like to find out is if this is something worth pursuing or if I'm 
wasting my time. I'm decent with a soldering iron and am not easily 
deterred, but don't know much about this stuff. Here's what I'd like to 
do with some pictures to help:

1-Remove the drum machine unit and use it alone for drum beats only. My 
main question is how to get power to this thing, and it would be nice 
to know what all the other wires are for. Here's some photos:

http://homepage.mac.com/wofford/random/drum_front.jpg - Front of Unit
http://homepage.mac.com/wofford/random/drum_unit.jpg - Top of Unit
http://homepage.mac.com/wofford/random/wires_2_close.jpg - Wires going 
out
http://homepage.mac.com/wofford/random/organ_power.jpg - Power Supply


2-Remove the volume pedal and convert to use with my guitar. Here's a 
pic: http://homepage.mac.com/wofford/random/pedal.jpg - Volume Pedal


Any and all info you can give would be greatly appreciated!!!


Thanks!
Brad Wofford

www.thesouthernsea.com



From megaohm1 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 06:36:38 2006
From: megaohm1 at gmail.com (megaohm)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 23:36:38 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <17035a3d0601011915w74dfe816x2400722f50a9adc3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
	 <5.2.1.1.2.20060101182450.00b6c878@pop.west.cox.net>
	 <006501c60f4a$c4c9e4c0$9705f504@default>
	 <17035a3d0601011913w5ede4c11s692240a8a7372eee@mail.gmail.com>
	 <17035a3d0601011915w74dfe816x2400722f50a9adc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a6fac3a00601012136h113a1fb4l2505ea9f0012778e@mail.gmail.com>

Are perfboards, veroboards, protoboards and through-hole boards all
different names for the same thing?

peng
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From afas00 at bigpond.net.au  Mon Jan  2 07:16:48 2006
From: afas00 at bigpond.net.au (geoff james)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 16:16:48 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Korg MS03
Message-ID: <000801c60f64$1d6e1e20$0100000a@geoffos1b9gcux>

hi all
can anyone direct me to a site with info on the above.
regards
geoff
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From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon Jan  2 07:37:15 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:37:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Comparator question
In-Reply-To: <000801c60f64$1d6e1e20$0100000a@geoffos1b9gcux>
References: <000801c60f64$1d6e1e20$0100000a@geoffos1b9gcux>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020135410.24769@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


Other than needing a single vs. a dual vs. a quad - are there any 
differences between the LM339, LM393, and LM311 such that one would 
want to use one over another in particular applications?

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B




From patchell at cox.net  Mon Jan  2 08:11:20 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:11:20 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] d/a, voltage references & multiplexing
  considerations
In-Reply-To: <20060102043809.56313.qmail@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060101230528.0215b500@pop.west.cox.net>

I like the Crystal Semi DACs....24 bits...192KHz....can't get much better 
than that...and they are not that expensive...although...a bit tough to 
get...I am planning on using their 8 channel DAC on the FPGA board I am 
going to do (someday).  The Crystal Semi parts are, however, delta sigma 
converters...this helps because you don't need a complicated anti alias 
filter...they might be a little less flexable...

However...the AD1861 would be considered high quality...much better than a 
CD...

At 05:38 AM 1/2/2006 +0100, Karl Ekdahl wrote:
>I'm after a d/a for audio use, high quality. I'm thinking of using a 
>18-bit AD1861 with 0.008% THD (since i have them), is this good for 
>high-quality audio? I assume that i should use a good voltage reference 
>for the analog voltage in so i'm looking for suggestions on components and 
>circuits for that. Also i'm thinking that since it supports 16x oversample 
>i could multiplex it into a number of outs using sample and holds, is this 
>a bad idea?  Also, i'm a little confused as how to wire the 1861 for 
>voltage out, the only thing i found on the net was someone hooking up Iout 
>to SJ and RF to Vout and then tie both together with a cap of mysterious value.
>
>any thoughts appreciated
>
>Karl

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************




From patchell at cox.net  Mon Jan  2 08:19:13 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:19:13 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Comparator question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020135410.24769@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <000801c60f64$1d6e1e20$0100000a@geoffos1b9gcux>
 <000801c60f64$1d6e1e20$0100000a@geoffos1b9gcux>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060101231527.022186f8@pop.west.cox.net>

The LM393 and LM339 are basically dual/quad of the same circuit.  The 
LM311, however, is a completely different animal.  The LM393/339 are low 
performance comparators.  The LM311 is a medium performance 
comparator.  The LM311 has a much more flexible output...The LM311 does 
take careful layout to keep it from oscillating, but it is difficult to 
use.  The 393/339 also takes careful layout, but no where near the degree 
that the 311 requires...

At 01:37 AM 1/2/2006 -0500, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>Other than needing a single vs. a dual vs. a quad - are there any 
>differences between the LM339, LM393, and LM311 such that one would want 
>to use one over another in particular applications?
>
>- Aaron
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
>School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
>Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
>Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
>Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>
>

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************




From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon Jan  2 08:34:10 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 02:34:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020225550.24859@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


I originally put this together for my student's (and my) use, but I'm sure 
others will find it useful as well:

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/

(Jim, you'll see why I asked that question)

Are all my op amp bases covered? I have LM324/LM358 for single supply CV 
(is there a single version?), TL07x/TL08x for audio, NE553x for super 
duper audio... To design synths, are there any other op amp types a 
designer should be sure to have on hand?

When can one get away with a TL08x instead of a TL07x - or to just phrase 
the question another way, when is it not worth replacing a TL08x with a 
TL007x?

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon Jan  2 08:44:24 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 02:44:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's modular synth manufacturer list
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020243120.24876@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/synthcompanies.html

Am I missing anyone?

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B




From MBEDTOM at aol.com  Mon Jan  2 08:51:14 2006
From: MBEDTOM at aol.com (MBEDTOM at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 02:51:14 EST
Subject: [sdiy] d/a, voltage references & multiplexing  considerations
Message-ID: <9.528aaa45.30ea3572@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/2/2006 1:18:56 AM Central Standard Time, 
patchell at cox.net writes:


> However...the AD1861 would be considered high quality...much better than a 
> CD...
> 

The AD1861 is now EOL and lifetime buy is in effect according to the 
manufacturer's website.  If you already have as many chips as you want, fine.  But 
there'll be no more.

Peace.
Tom Farrand
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From colin at colinfraser.com  Mon Jan  2 12:20:00 2006
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:00 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] UK source for cheap splined pots?
In-Reply-To: <43B8A703.5070602@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001b01c60f8e$7b153d40$0101a8c0@zen2>

 
 
> Does anyone know a UK source for cheap 6mm splined pots, like Alpha 
> RV160 series?  Rapid sell these ones, but the log values they 
> stock are 
> very limited (only 4K7 and 1M) - I want 100K log.

You can get them for less than Rapid at Taiwan Electronics, in any value you
want.
Only problem is, the minimum order quantity is 1000 pieces, and the lead
time is 9 weeks...

Cheers,
Colin f




From mazorian at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 12:29:21 2006
From: mazorian at gmail.com (Ian Maslen)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:29:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] UK source for cheap splined pots?
In-Reply-To: <43B8A703.5070602@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43B8A703.5070602@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <be6dcd9e0601020329p2883225ds@mail.gmail.com>

You could try

http://www.esr.co.uk/

I've just been pricing up a shopping list with them (found them in one
of the electronics magazines) and they seem very reasonable and have a
good range of parts.

Hope that helps,

Maz


On 02/01/06, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
> Does anyone know a UK source for cheap 6mm splined pots, like Alpha
> RV160 series?  Rapid sell these ones, but the log values they stock are
> very limited (only 4K7 and 1M) - I want 100K log.
>
> Thanks,
> Seb
>
>
>



From xamboldt at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  2 12:35:22 2006
From: xamboldt at earthlink.net (xamboldt)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 06:35:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's modular synth manufacturer list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020243120.24876@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020243120.24876@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <3F96637D-89EB-40A2-AEB2-B76C0E5D0FC3@earthlink.net>

Here are some I found doing a quick check of my bookmarks - there's  
probably more out there...

Boards:
Papareil Synth Labs
http://m.bareille.free.fr/sales.htm

Manufacturers:
Analogue Solutions (see the Concussor line of modules - euro rack  
like Doepfer)
http://www.analoguesolutions.com/

Analogic ACS - a few MOTM-ish modules
http://www.analogic-acs.com/

Encore Electronics - MOTM-style Universal Event Generator and Freq  
Shifter, as well as Expressionist MIDI to CV unit
http://www.encoreelectronics.com/

CWejman
http://www.cwejman.com/english/index3.html

Macbeth
http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com/

Club of the Knobs - not the greatest reputation - known to steal designs
http://www.cluboftheknobs.com/products_mod.html

-Chris

On Jan 2, 2006, at 2:44 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/synthcompanies.html
>
> Am I missing anyone?
>
> - Aaron
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -------
>
> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/ 
> ~lanterma
> Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>
>



From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Mon Jan  2 12:36:35 2006
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:36:35 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] d/a, voltage references & multiplexing  considerations
In-Reply-To: <20060102043809.56313.qmail@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102043809.56313.qmail@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.61.0601021331030.420346@kosh.hut.fi>

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Karl Ekdahl wrote:

> I'm after a d/a for audio use, high quality. I'm thinking of using a 
> 18-bit AD1861 with 0.008% THD (since i have them), is this good for 
> high-quality audio? I assume that i should use a good voltage reference 
> for the analog voltage in so i'm looking for suggestions on components

You'll also need stable jitter-free master clock. Unfortunately I have no 
idea how good your typical run of the mill crystal oscillator circuit is 
going to be at that.

> and circuits for that. Also i'm thinking that since it supports 16x 
> oversample i could multiplex it into a number of outs using sample and 
> holds, is this a bad idea?  Also, i'm a little confused as how to wire

This will be tricky. You will have phase offset between the channels and 
your sample & hold must be linear enough (100dB THD is not easy), fast 
enough and low feedthrough enough. I wouldn't do this.

> the 1861 for voltage out, the only thing i found on the net was someone 
> hooking up Iout to SJ and RF to Vout and then tie both together with a 
> cap of mysterious value.

The datasheet shows internal Rf between the pins, so a capacitor would act 
as simple lowpass filter (possibly needed for compensation too).

Antti - By no means an expert in AD/DA but has read lots about what can go 
wrong there

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From xamboldt at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  2 12:41:52 2006
From: xamboldt at earthlink.net (xamboldt)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 06:41:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's modular synth manufacturer list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020243120.24876@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020243120.24876@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <0A13A7CC-C572-43E6-9602-8A8EA46CDCB4@earthlink.net>

Oh yeah, EMS is still kicking
http://www.ems-synthi.demon.co.uk/

On Jan 2, 2006, at 2:44 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/synthcompanies.html
>
> Am I missing anyone?
>
> - Aaron
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -------
>
> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/ 
> ~lanterma
> Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>
>



From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 12:49:37 2006
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:49:37 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] UK source for cheap splined pots?
In-Reply-To: <43B8A703.5070602@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000101c60f92$9edcf340$533f4154@stingo>

Hi Seb,

> Does anyone know a UK source for cheap 6mm splined pots, like Alpha 
> RV160 series?  Rapid sell these ones, but the log values they 
> stock are 
> very limited (only 4K7 and 1M) - I want 100K log.

I bought some from ESR Electronic Components a while ago:

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/esr/

Page 7 here:

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/esr/Resistors.PDF

The only niggle I have is that the shaft was about 4mm too long for the
knobs I use, and so each one needs a hacksaw taking to it...

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk





From delta_316 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 15:18:43 2006
From: delta_316 at yahoo.co.uk (Milo Barrowclough)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 14:18:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] UK source for cheap splined pots
Message-ID: <20060102141843.47669.qmail@web25002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

  i have found bowood electronics (www.bowood-electronics.co.uk) to be a top notch electronics supplier. good prices, friendly service, they even sent me a christmas card! 
   
  I think they carry 6mm splined pots in 100k, I think there called 'mini' potentiometers.


		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos ? NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.
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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 15:41:25 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:41:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] UK source for cheap splined pots
In-Reply-To: <20060102141843.47669.qmail@web25002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102141843.47669.qmail@web25002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B93B95.5010506@burnit.co.uk>

Many thanks to everyone for the replies about pot sources.

It's a bit annoying that the ones ESR sell are 5mm longer longer than 
the ones from Rapid (in other ways they look identical). Not a problem 
to cut them down for small quantities I guess.

Bowood don't give many details online, so I'll have to phone them to 
find out the length & type.

Seb



Milo Barrowclough wrote:

> i have found bowood electronics (www.bowood-electronics.co.uk 
> <http://www.bowood-electronics.co.uk>) to be a top notch electronics 
> supplier. good prices, friendly service, they even sent me a christmas 
> card!
> I think they carry 6mm splined pots in 100k, I think there called 
> 'mini' potentiometers.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Photos* 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/photos/*http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/> 
> ? NEW, now offering a quality print service 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/photos/*http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/> 
> from just 8p a photo. 




From jloffink at austin.rr.com  Mon Jan  2 15:44:12 2006
From: jloffink at austin.rr.com (John Loffink)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:44:12 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's modular synth manufacturer list
In-Reply-To: <0A13A7CC-C572-43E6-9602-8A8EA46CDCB4@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001901c60faa$ff461dc0$6400a8c0@john>

More sources:

Boards:
Tellun Labs  http://www.tellun.com/motm/diy/diy.html  MOTM format and
general purpose boards, some unique circuits
Charlie Lamm Studios  http://www.charlielamm.com/synth/vcasales.php  vca
James Patchell
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodules/synthmodules.html very useful
Wave/Voltage Shaper

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com


> -----Original Message-----




From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Jan  2 15:56:28 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 07:56:28 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
Message-ID: <200601021556.k02FuSp06557@linux7>

Very interesting, do you have a schematic up that you can share?

What sort of signal(s) did you test with?

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>Well, I've been getting some really nice results with using between 1 
>and 3 stages of a 4069UB for distortion.  The MOSFET clipping has a 
>really warm sound to it.  (Incidently the 4049 really wasn't so good - 
>the clipping was way too asymmetrical.)  Anyway, more on this later .. 
>I'll publish the final circuit in due course.
>
>What I'm concerned about in my circuit design is whether it is safe to 
>drive the 4069 beyond its absolute maximum input voltage.  The quoted 
>absolute maximum range is -0.5V to VDD+0.5V (VDD=15 in my circuit).
>
>The input current is limited by a 10K resistor (with a DC blocking cap 
>in series before it), so although the opamp driving it can kick out up 
>to 28V ptp, the voltage at the 4069 input gets clipped to approx 17V 
>ptp.  This is a bit beyond the quoted absolute maximum, but I guess as 
>long as the current through the internal protection diodes is limited by 
>the 10K resistor then this is ok??  Is this a safe assumption?
>
>Seb
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From colin at colinfraser.com  Mon Jan  2 16:00:44 2006
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 15:00:44 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] UK source for cheap splined pots
In-Reply-To: <43B93B95.5010506@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002901c60fad$519d9b00$0101a8c0@zen2>

 
> It's a bit annoying that the ones ESR sell are 5mm longer longer than 
> the ones from Rapid (in other ways they look identical). Not 
> a problem 
> to cut them down for small quantities I guess.

Are you sure ?
I've bought from ESR before, and they were 20mm shaft length, exactly the
same as Rapid.

15mm shaft length are better, since they'll let the Rean soft-touch knobs
(and similar) sit flush with a panel, but I've only found them at Taiwan
Electronics with the 1k MOQ.
BTW you can find the datasheets for the full Alpha range here:
http://www.taiwanalpha.com/en/product.htm

Cheers,
Colin f




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 16:30:20 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:30:20 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] UK source for cheap splined pots
In-Reply-To: <002901c60fad$519d9b00$0101a8c0@zen2>
References: <002901c60fad$519d9b00$0101a8c0@zen2>
Message-ID: <43B9470C.4020605@burnit.co.uk>

Colin f wrote:

> 
>  
>
>>It's a bit annoying that the ones ESR sell are 5mm longer longer than 
>>the ones from Rapid (in other ways they look identical). Not 
>>a problem 
>>to cut them down for small quantities I guess.
>>    
>>
>
>Are you sure ?
>I've bought from ESR before, and they were 20mm shaft length, exactly the
>same as Rapid.
>
>  
>
I was going by the diagram in ESR's PDF catalog.  It shows the length 
from the shoulder of the bush (i.e. the bit that sits against the inside 
of the panel) to the end of the shaft as being 25mm.  This length is 
20mm on the ones I have here from Rapid.

>15mm shaft length are better, since they'll let the Rean soft-touch knobs
>(and similar) sit flush with a panel, but I've only found them at Taiwan
>Electronics with the 1k MOQ.
>  
>
I agree, would be even better if they were 15mm, but unfortunatly 1K is 
way more than I need for this little project I've got going on!

>BTW you can find the datasheets for the full Alpha range here:
>http://www.taiwanalpha.com/en/product.htm
>
>  
>
Thanks.

Seb




From daniel.araya at sr.se  Mon Jan  2 16:45:45 2006
From: daniel.araya at sr.se (Daniel Araya)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:45:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] quality potentiometers?
Message-ID: <s3b958dc.027@rhcl03n02.sr.se>

What type of pots do you prefer for synthmodules?

I'm looking for pot's with:
good feel
1/4" metal shaft 
good mechanical design, maybe metal body
long life (cermet/conductive plastic)
not too big

What could I expect to pay for something like this, is 10?/12$ a piece enough?
Anybody got a good european source?

I tried Omeg ECO pots before, they are cheap and I liked the feel but the shafts were too wobbly, too much plastic.


many questions! :)

/Daniel




From daugard at sprintmail.com  Mon Jan  2 17:03:21 2006
From: daugard at sprintmail.com (Tim Daugard)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:03:21 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
References: <200601011913.k01JDlp19855@linux7> <b6b288a70601011150o247720e6r5cb63cfd30a1f9c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c301c60fb8$a8dea340$9f655b04@tim3>

>>>
In 23 years, such a divice has a greater chance of coming into
environments
with higher humidity as it had quite often, over the years; especially
the
last 3 or 4 years.
<<<

I am in an area with high humidity - 90% or better with high salt
content (1/4 mile to the seashore) I've had no problems with the white
strips including one that I've had 20++ years. Humidity is liveable.

>>>
Having 2 test circuits barely working at all, without moving a chip
back and
forth in it's position, I gave up in frustration, removing all of the
parts
and wires and using a screwdriver to rip portions of the board off of
the
metal mounting base.
<<<

Once a test circuit starts working, I transfer it to perfboard and
solder connections. I use a combination of SSB for new parts of a
circuit and soldered perfboard for the semi-proofed circuit. Makes for
a bigger mess but works for me.

>>>
Lo'n'behold, starting back at me are huge amounts of the blue'ish
corrosion
of copper colour, on a large # of pin contacts. :P
I haven't thrown the breadboard out yet.  Just thinking of it now -
I'm
going to take a pic or 2 of it, and post it to my webpage, as a
partial
warning of one thing that can happen to it. :(
<<<

The rat shack breadboard mounted on a metal backing plate is a no-no.
I splurged and bought one to upgrade my breadboards. I had circuits
that wouldn't work on it. I tried prying the breadboard off the plate
and discovered that the breadboard was glued so well that as the plate
flexed it pulled the pins out of the breadboard. When I got the
breadboard off the plate, the pins were falling out of the back of the
white plastic.

>>>
Thankfully - I still have another, that's only about 10 years old, and
still
seems to be working fine. :)

They're great for testing ideas quickly, by just plopping parts in and
powering it all up. :)  I've done a fair amount of design over the
years
with them, and I'll continue to use them. :)
<<<

I have several. I have bought more when a circuit had to spread, I
need an idea for a present, etc. When I absolutly can't remember what
a circuit is for, I'll tear it down. Normally the chip on the
breadboard is transfered to the first soldered board (with sockets.)
That way if I see a breadboard with no ICs and no transistors on it, I
know it's okay to strip the rest of the parts out of it and reuse it.

I have done RF circuits on a SSB. If the circuit works at all, then
it's going to work better done properly.

Tim Daugard
AG4GZ 30.4078N 86.6227W Alt: 12 feet above MSL
http://home.sprintmail.com/~daugard/synth.htm



From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Jan  2 17:08:27 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 09:08:27 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
Message-ID: <200601021708.k02H8Rp20272@linux7>

This is what I imagined you did - now I've got to try it, I'll be using both
synth sounds and/or guitar.  

When you say "warm", would that be warm like vacuum tube sonic warmth?

Best if I just try it...  Many thanks.

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>Funny you should ask, I've just this minute uploaded a gif of the 
>schematic ...
>http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/mosfet_distortion.gif
>
>It really is a lovely sounding distortion, and it's useful to be able to 
>set the number of stages to get anything from 'subtle' to 'insane'.
>
>I've been testing it with 3 things: Oakley 3031 with some filter 
>resonance, Waldorf Pulse with a fat saw wave patch and no resonance, and 
>a 909 bass drum clone.  This seemed like a good cross section of sources 
>(these are the kind of things I like to distort anyway).
>
>The circuit differs from others I've seen with the 4049/4069 as it has 
>no high frequency roll off (I tried it, but I preferred to let all 
>frequencies through then EQ later, or indeed before, if it was wanted).  
>For guitar distortion you might want to add some caps across some or all 
>of the 4069 stages to roll off the high frequencies.
>
>Remember to tie any unused inputs of the 4069 to ground (or make a 2nd 
>channel - that's what I'm doing).
>
>Seb
>
>P.S. The current circuit takes the risk of exceeding the 4069 input 
>voltage specification if the input is hot and the drive level is set 
>high - it gives a nice hard clip sound when you drive it real hard like 
>this.  Having just read Harry's email, I might change this a bit to save 
>damaging the IC.
>
>
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
>>Very interesting, do you have a schematic up that you can share?
>>
>>What sort of signal(s) did you test with?
>>
>>Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>Well, I've been getting some really nice results with using between 1 
>>>and 3 stages of a 4069UB for distortion.  The MOSFET clipping has a 
>>>really warm sound to it.  (Incidently the 4049 really wasn't so good - 
>>>the clipping was way too asymmetrical.)  Anyway, more on this later .. 
>>>I'll publish the final circuit in due course.
>>>
>>>What I'm concerned about in my circuit design is whether it is safe to 
>>>drive the 4069 beyond its absolute maximum input voltage.  The quoted 
>>>absolute maximum range is -0.5V to VDD+0.5V (VDD=15 in my circuit).
>>>
>>>The input current is limited by a 10K resistor (with a DC blocking cap 
>>>in series before it), so although the opamp driving it can kick out up 
>>>to 28V ptp, the voltage at the 4069 input gets clipped to approx 17V 
>>>ptp.  This is a bit beyond the quoted absolute maximum, but I guess as 
>>>long as the current through the internal protection diodes is limited by 
>>>the 10K resistor then this is ok??  Is this a safe assumption?
>>>
>>>Seb
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
>>- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
>>- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
>>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>>- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
>>- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.
>>
>>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>>-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>>-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>>-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From patchell at cox.net  Mon Jan  2 17:10:38 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:10:38 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Comparator question
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20060101231527.022186f8@pop.west.cox.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020135410.24769@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <000801c60f64$1d6e1e20$0100000a@geoffos1b9gcux>
 <000801c60f64$1d6e1e20$0100000a@geoffos1b9gcux>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060102080959.00b6cdc0@pop.west.cox.net>

I was tired last night....that message should say that the LM311 is NOT 
difficult to use...sorry about that...

At 11:19 PM 1/1/2006 -0800, James Patchell wrote:
>The LM393 and LM339 are basically dual/quad of the same circuit.  The 
>LM311, however, is a completely different animal.  The LM393/339 are low 
>performance comparators.  The LM311 is a medium performance 
>comparator.  The LM311 has a much more flexible output...The LM311 does 
>take careful layout to keep it from oscillating, but it is difficult to 
>use.  The 393/339 also takes careful layout, but no where near the degree 
>that the 311 requires...
>
>At 01:37 AM 1/2/2006 -0500, Aaron Lanterman wrote:
>
>>Other than needing a single vs. a dual vs. a quad - are there any 
>>differences between the LM339, LM393, and LM311 such that one would want 
>>to use one over another in particular applications?
>>
>>- Aaron
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
>>School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
>>Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
>>Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
>>Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>>
>
>         -Jim
>***************************************************************
>http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell
>
>***************************************************************
>
>

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************




From patchell at cox.net  Mon Jan  2 17:15:35 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:15:35 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020225550.24859@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060102081130.0278cb18@pop.west.cox.net>

Generally, I use the TL08x and TL07x interchangeably...you aren't going to 
notice a whole lot of difference between them...Generally, I now use the 
TL05x series...which has better offset specs...supposedly...but it costs 
about twice as much.

And the LM324 is not really a single power supply opamp...you will find it 
actually works best from a +/- power supply....they call it single supply 
because the input common mode range includes the negative supply rail and 
the output can go down very close to the negative rail.  However...I 
generally never stock them any more.  I use TL0xx opamps everywhere for the 
most part.

At 02:34 AM 1/2/2006 -0500, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>I originally put this together for my student's (and my) use, but I'm sure 
>others will find it useful as well:
>
>http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/
>
>(Jim, you'll see why I asked that question)
>
>Are all my op amp bases covered? I have LM324/LM358 for single supply CV 
>(is there a single version?), TL07x/TL08x for audio, NE553x for super 
>duper audio... To design synths, are there any other op amp types a 
>designer should be sure to have on hand?
>
>When can one get away with a TL08x instead of a TL07x - or to just phrase 
>the question another way, when is it not worth replacing a TL08x with a TL007x?
>
>- Aaron
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
>School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
>Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
>Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
>Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************




From rdrake at data2action.com  Mon Jan  2 17:17:30 2006
From: rdrake at data2action.com (rdrake)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:17:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] =?US-ASCII?B?UkU6IFtzZGl5XSBBYXJvbidzIG1vZHVsYXIgc3ludGggbWFudWZhY3R1cmVyIGxpc3Q=?=
Message-ID: <200601021617.k02GHUoT099822@mmm1113.verio-web.com>

Bananalogue: http://www.bananalogue.com/  
New versions based on classic Serge modules in Doepfer/Frakrack format; first offering is a version of Serge's Universal Slope Generator.  Just got my Frac version, it's da bomb.

bbob

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Sent: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 -0500 (EST) 02:44:24
>
>
>http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/synthcom
>panies.html
>
>Am I missing anyone?
>
>- Aaron
>
>---------------------------------------------------
>--------------------------
>
>Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.	Voice: 
>404-385-2548
>School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.	Fax:   
>404-894-8363
>Georgia Institute of Technology	E-mail:
>lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
>Mail Code 0250 			Web:   
>users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
>Atlanta, GA 30332			Office:
>GCATT 334B


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  2 17:23:49 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:23:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B8B438.70001@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060102162349.19241.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>

with a 10K resistor in the inout you might be over the edge. I'd be
  concerned. You might want to use shottky clamp diodes instead
  of allowinng the CMOS input diodes to clip.
  
  The input clipping 'may' be part of your sound. Who knows ?
  I'd expewriment a little more with it.
  
  H^) harry

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:  Well, I've been getting some really nice results with using between 1 
and 3 stages of a 4069UB for distortion.  The MOSFET clipping has a 
really warm sound to it.  (Incidently the 4049 really wasn't so good - 
the clipping was way too asymmetrical.)  Anyway, more on this later .. 
I'll publish the final circuit in due course.

What I'm concerned about in my circuit design is whether it is safe to 
drive the 4069 beyond its absolute maximum input voltage.  The quoted 
absolute maximum range is -0.5V to VDD+0.5V (VDD=15 in my circuit).

The input current is limited by a 10K resistor (with a DC blocking cap 
in series before it), so although the opamp driving it can kick out up 
to 28V ptp, the voltage at the 4069 input gets clipped to approx 17V 
ptp.  This is a bit beyond the quoted absolute maximum, but I guess as 
long as the current through the internal protection diodes is limited by 
the 10K resistor then this is ok??  Is this a safe assumption?

Seb




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From dave at westphila.net  Mon Jan  2 17:48:25 2006
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:48:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Well - grabbed a couple of CD4046s and ......
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70512311318sb6b7fb2j47b276663c099fe7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b288a70512311318sb6b7fb2j47b276663c099fe7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43B95959.4060708@westphila.net>

The 4046 can be used as a XOR style ringmod.  Just take the output off 
Phase Comp 1, which is just an xor gate.  Frequency multiplication is 
another option for any PLL.

Dave Moylan

Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:

> I wonder if anyone has anything online, interesting to do with them?  :D
>
> My original desire was for a VC Clock, but  I'm open to any cool ideas 
> anyone has out there, anywhere. :) ??
>
> -- 
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
>
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - 
> Dec 3005 update 




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 17:53:08 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:53:08 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <200601021556.k02FuSp06557@linux7>
References: <200601021556.k02FuSp06557@linux7>
Message-ID: <43B95A74.2080703@burnit.co.uk>

Funny you should ask, I've just this minute uploaded a gif of the 
schematic ...
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/mosfet_distortion.gif

It really is a lovely sounding distortion, and it's useful to be able to 
set the number of stages to get anything from 'subtle' to 'insane'.

I've been testing it with 3 things: Oakley 3031 with some filter 
resonance, Waldorf Pulse with a fat saw wave patch and no resonance, and 
a 909 bass drum clone.  This seemed like a good cross section of sources 
(these are the kind of things I like to distort anyway).

The circuit differs from others I've seen with the 4049/4069 as it has 
no high frequency roll off (I tried it, but I preferred to let all 
frequencies through then EQ later, or indeed before, if it was wanted).  
For guitar distortion you might want to add some caps across some or all 
of the 4069 stages to roll off the high frequencies.

Remember to tie any unused inputs of the 4069 to ground (or make a 2nd 
channel - that's what I'm doing).

Seb

P.S. The current circuit takes the risk of exceeding the 4069 input 
voltage specification if the input is hot and the drive level is set 
high - it gives a nice hard clip sound when you drive it real hard like 
this.  Having just read Harry's email, I might change this a bit to save 
damaging the IC.


Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>Very interesting, do you have a schematic up that you can share?
>
>What sort of signal(s) did you test with?
>
>Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>  
>
>>Well, I've been getting some really nice results with using between 1 
>>and 3 stages of a 4069UB for distortion.  The MOSFET clipping has a 
>>really warm sound to it.  (Incidently the 4049 really wasn't so good - 
>>the clipping was way too asymmetrical.)  Anyway, more on this later .. 
>>I'll publish the final circuit in due course.
>>
>>What I'm concerned about in my circuit design is whether it is safe to 
>>drive the 4069 beyond its absolute maximum input voltage.  The quoted 
>>absolute maximum range is -0.5V to VDD+0.5V (VDD=15 in my circuit).
>>
>>The input current is limited by a 10K resistor (with a DC blocking cap 
>>in series before it), so although the opamp driving it can kick out up 
>>to 28V ptp, the voltage at the 4069 input gets clipped to approx 17V 
>>ptp.  This is a bit beyond the quoted absolute maximum, but I guess as 
>>long as the current through the internal protection diodes is limited by 
>>the 10K resistor then this is ok??  Is this a safe assumption?
>>
>>Seb
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
>- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
>- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
>- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.
>
>
>
>  
>



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 18:09:57 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:09:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <20060102162349.19241.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102162349.19241.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B95E65.4010004@burnit.co.uk>

Hi Harry,

Can you give an example part no. of a suitable schottky clamp diode?  
Would a 1N4148 do or would it be better to use something with a lower 
voltage drop?  I guess I need them between input and VDD and between VSS 
and input (i.e. in parrallel with the internal protection diodes).

What would you consider a safe value of input resistor to drop the 
voltage from 28V ptp to 17V ptp (I guess the max current flowing in 
either protection diode would be (28-17)/2 / R, so about 0.5mA 
currently).  Unfortunatly they don't spec these things on the datasheet :-(

Seb


Harry Bissell Jr wrote:

> with a 10K resistor in the inout you might be over the edge. I'd be
> concerned. You might want to use shottky clamp diodes instead
> of allowinng the CMOS input diodes to clip.
>
> The input clipping 'may' be part of your sound. Who knows ?
> I'd expewriment a little more with it.
>
> H^) harry
>
> */Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>/* wrote:
>
>     Well, I've been getting some really nice results with using between 1
>     and 3 stages of a 4069UB for distortion. The MOSFET clipping has a
>     really warm sound to it. (Incidently the 4049 really wasn't so good -
>     the clipping was way too asymmetrical.) Anyway, more on this later ..
>     I'll publish the final circuit in due course.
>
>     What I'm concerned about in my circuit design is whether it is
>     safe to
>     drive the 4069 beyond its absolute maximum input voltage. The quoted
>     absolute maximum range is -0.5V to VDD+0.5V (VDD=15 in my circuit).
>
>     The input current is limited by a 10K resistor (with a DC blocking
>     cap
>     in series before it), so although the opamp driving it can kick
>     out up
>     to 28V ptp, the voltage at the 4069 input gets clipped to approx 17V
>     ptp. This is a bit beyond the quoted absolute maximum, but I guess as
>     long as the current through the internal protection diodes is
>     limited by
>     the 10K resistor then this is ok?? Is this a safe assumption?
>
>     Seb
>
>
>



From switchbladekey at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 18:18:13 2006
From: switchbladekey at gmail.com (S. P. W. )
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:18:13 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <001a01c60f1c$c1a2a300$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
	 <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net>
	 <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default>
	 <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <001a01c60f1c$c1a2a300$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com>
Message-ID: <7dde4aac0601020918k76fb104dm8e279d885010146e@mail.gmail.com>

What about Mouser?

They claim that this item is a direct replacement for the CA3080E*

http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=347638

It is well under $2.00 each, is it unsuitable in some way I'm missing?

In general I don't know what effect these 4xxx series chips will have
on sound. I read an article on synth repair that pre 85 or so, 4xxx
chips were on a different micron standard which caused them to degrade
slowly over time until failing. I figured mine were either operating
poorly, on their way out, or already failed. Since the Chorus squelch
and articulator mode two were non-functional, I had some evidence to
support this theory.

Replacing all the other 4xxx IC's on the control board has, to my ear,
been a positive change largely resulting in reduced noise and better
filter performance. I have not noticed any negatives as yet. All that
is left for me to change is the 3080's.

I planned to order the NTE996's to replace all the ca3080's in my Opus
3, would that be a mistake? Since they are so cheap, I guess I can try
it and be the guinea pig for the group.

take care,

Steve




* E=8 pin dip with close tolerances & expanded temperature range
On 1/1/06, Pat Kammerer <spivkurl at wearerecords.com> wrote:
> Just expect a wait from my experience.  The quality is good though.  Also,
> beware if you order capacitors, as the bags are labeled wrong about 1/3 of
> the time.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
>
>
> >
> > On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, harrybissell wrote:
> >
> > > for heaven's sake... at those prices why not go to Futurlec and
> > > buy the CA3280 instead ???
> >
> > > H^) harry
> >
> > Have you had good luck with them? I had heard futurlec might be a bit
> > dodgy.
> >
> > - Aaron
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >
> > Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> > School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> > Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> > Mail Code 0250                         Web:
> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
> > Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
> >
> >
>
>



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 18:21:20 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:21:20 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <200601021708.k02H8Rp20272@linux7>
References: <200601021708.k02H8Rp20272@linux7>
Message-ID: <43B96110.5090802@burnit.co.uk>

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>When you say "warm", would that be warm like vacuum tube sonic warmth?
>
>  
>
Well, I don't have a lot of experience with tube equipment, so I can't 
really say for sure .. but it is very pleasing to my ears.

>Best if I just try it...
>
Definitely the best way to know .. "warm" is such a subjective term :)

I'd be interested to hear what you think, and if you make any 
improvements.  Probably you'll need a different impedance input stage if 
you want to plug a guitar directly in.

Seb




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  2 18:22:14 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 09:22:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B95E65.4010004@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060102172214.67364.qmail@web51008.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Seb
  
  A good shottky might be the 1N5817
  
  I have done input overdrive with 100K series resistor. Two notes...
  I don't intentionally overdrive at that level... and in your linear case
  (I assume you have a feebback resistor) making the input much higher
  will make the feeback value much higher as well...
  
  why not a low impedance voltage divider to reduce the opamp swing first
  to below the 15V limit ?  Knock the gain down first, then go through the
  22K input resistor. 
  
  28V p-pk sounds like the opamp is +/-15V supply. Then you go to a 0-15V
  on the CMOS ???
  
  Are you AC coupling into the CMOS ??
  
  H^) harry

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:  Hi Harry,

Can you give an example part no. of a suitable schottky clamp diode?  
Would a 1N4148 do or would it be better to use something with a lower 
voltage drop?  I guess I need them between input and VDD and between VSS 
and input (i.e. in parrallel with the internal protection diodes).

What would you consider a safe value of input resistor to drop the 
voltage from 28V ptp to 17V ptp (I guess the max current flowing in 
either protection diode would be (28-17)/2 / R, so about 0.5mA 
currently).  Unfortunatly they don't spec these things on the datasheet :-(

Seb


Harry Bissell Jr wrote:

> with a 10K resistor in the inout you might be over the edge. I'd be
> concerned. You might want to use shottky clamp diodes instead
> of allowinng the CMOS input diodes to clip.
>
> The input clipping 'may' be part of your sound. Who knows ?
> I'd expewriment a little more with it.
>
> H^) harry
>
> */Seb Francis /* wrote:
>
>     Well, I've been getting some really nice results with using between 1
>     and 3 stages of a 4069UB for distortion. The MOSFET clipping has a
>     really warm sound to it. (Incidently the 4049 really wasn't so good -
>     the clipping was way too asymmetrical.) Anyway, more on this later ..
>     I'll publish the final circuit in due course.
>
>     What I'm concerned about in my circuit design is whether it is
>     safe to
>     drive the 4069 beyond its absolute maximum input voltage. The quoted
>     absolute maximum range is -0.5V to VDD+0.5V (VDD=15 in my circuit).
>
>     The input current is limited by a 10K resistor (with a DC blocking
>     cap
>     in series before it), so although the opamp driving it can kick
>     out up
>     to 28V ptp, the voltage at the 4069 input gets clipped to approx 17V
>     ptp. This is a bit beyond the quoted absolute maximum, but I guess as
>     long as the current through the internal protection diodes is
>     limited by
>     the 10K resistor then this is ok?? Is this a safe assumption?
>
>     Seb
>
>
>



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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  2 18:26:51 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 09:26:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B95A74.2080703@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060102172652.40335.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>

Just saw the schematic.
  
  I would AC couple into the first opamp, bias the non-inverting input
  at 1/2Vcc and run the opamp on 0-15V (like a guitar stompbox). That
  would cure all your worries about exceeding the CMOS limits
  completely.
  
  H^) harry

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:  Funny you should ask, I've just this minute uploaded a gif of the 
schematic ...
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/mosfet_distortion.gif

It really is a lovely sounding distortion, and it's useful to be able to 
set the number of stages to get anything from 'subtle' to 'insane'.

I've been testing it with 3 things: Oakley 3031 with some filter 
resonance, Waldorf Pulse with a fat saw wave patch and no resonance, and 
a 909 bass drum clone.  This seemed like a good cross section of sources 
(these are the kind of things I like to distort anyway).

The circuit differs from others I've seen with the 4049/4069 as it has 
no high frequency roll off (I tried it, but I preferred to let all 
frequencies through then EQ later, or indeed before, if it was wanted).  
For guitar distortion you might want to add some caps across some or all 
of the 4069 stages to roll off the high frequencies.

Remember to tie any unused inputs of the 4069 to ground (or make a 2nd 
channel - that's what I'm doing).

Seb

P.S. The current circuit takes the risk of exceeding the 4069 input 
voltage specification if the input is hot and the drive level is set 
high - it gives a nice hard clip sound when you drive it real hard like 
this.  Having just read Harry's email, I might change this a bit to save 
damaging the IC.


Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>Very interesting, do you have a schematic up that you can share?
>
>What sort of signal(s) did you test with?
>
>Seb Francis  wrote:
>  
>
>>Well, I've been getting some really nice results with using between 1 
>>and 3 stages of a 4069UB for distortion.  The MOSFET clipping has a 
>>really warm sound to it.  (Incidently the 4049 really wasn't so good - 
>>the clipping was way too asymmetrical.)  Anyway, more on this later .. 
>>I'll publish the final circuit in due course.
>>
>>What I'm concerned about in my circuit design is whether it is safe to 
>>drive the 4069 beyond its absolute maximum input voltage.  The quoted 
>>absolute maximum range is -0.5V to VDD+0.5V (VDD=15 in my circuit).
>>
>>The input current is limited by a 10K resistor (with a DC blocking cap 
>>in series before it), so although the opamp driving it can kick out up 
>>to 28V ptp, the voltage at the 4069 input gets clipped to approx 17V 
>>ptp.  This is a bit beyond the quoted absolute maximum, but I guess as 
>>long as the current through the internal protection diodes is limited by 
>>the 10K resistor then this is ok??  Is this a safe assumption?
>>
>>Seb
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
>- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
>- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
>- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.
>
>
>
>  
>



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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 18:37:46 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:37:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <20060102172214.67364.qmail@web51008.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102172214.67364.qmail@web51008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B964EA.6000704@burnit.co.uk>

Hi Harry,

This is the current circuit:
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/mosfet_distortion.gif

Harry Bissell Jr wrote:

> Hi Seb
>
> A good shottky might be the 1N5817
>
Ok, I see it has a relatively low turn on voltage so should protect the 
internal diodes.

> I have done input overdrive with 100K series resistor. Two notes...
> I don't intentionally overdrive at that level... and in your linear case
> (I assume you have a feebback resistor) making the input much higher
> will make the feeback value much higher as well...

Yep, I've got a 100K feedback resistor.  So I would change the input to 
100K and the feedback to 1M.  I don't expect this will make very much 
difference to the sound.  But you are saying that even then it's not 
guaranteed not to damage the IC with extended use.

>
> why not a low impedance voltage divider to reduce the opamp swing first
> to below the 15V limit ?  Knock the gain down first, then go through the
> 22K input resistor.
>
The thing is that I like the option of the harder clipping sound when 
the input drive level is turned up high.  I'm currently leaning towards 
the schottky diode option - this seems the safest way to protect the IC 
without compromising the sound.

> 28V p-pk sounds like the opamp is +/-15V supply. Then you go to a 0-15V
> on the CMOS ???
>
> Are you AC coupling into the CMOS ??
>
Yep, that's right - with a 1uF cap before the 10K resistor.  I 
experimented with also adding DC bias to the CMOS input to make the 
distortion more symmetrical, but I found that it didn't make much 
difference.

Thanks for your help.
Seb




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 18:42:33 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:42:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <20060102172652.40335.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102172652.40335.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B96609.9010706@burnit.co.uk>

Harry Bissell Jr wrote:

> Just saw the schematic.
>
> I would AC couple into the first opamp, bias the non-inverting input
> at 1/2Vcc and run the opamp on 0-15V (like a guitar stompbox). That
> would cure all your worries about exceeding the CMOS limits
> completely.
>
Wouldn't this introduce non-symmetrical hard clipping since the TL072 
won't go down to negative rail voltage?  I will try it, but I'm really 
happy with the sounds I can get from the current circuit, so I'm still 
leaning towards the schottky diode option.

Seb




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 18:46:57 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:46:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B96609.9010706@burnit.co.uk>
References: <20060102172652.40335.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com> <43B96609.9010706@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43B96711.5000804@burnit.co.uk>

Seb Francis wrote:

> Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
>
>> Just saw the schematic.
>>
>> I would AC couple into the first opamp, bias the non-inverting input
>> at 1/2Vcc and run the opamp on 0-15V (like a guitar stompbox). That
>> would cure all your worries about exceeding the CMOS limits
>> completely.
>>
> Wouldn't this introduce non-symmetrical hard clipping since the TL072 
> won't go down to negative rail voltage?

Ok, so thinking about it, I should be able to adjust the voltage on the 
non-inverting input to make the hard clipping symmetrical.

But it's even less components just to add a couple of schottky diodes.  
Are there drawbacks to doing it this way?

Seb




From moogah at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 19:01:00 2006
From: moogah at gmail.com (Jeff Farr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:01:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <7dde4aac0601020918k76fb104dm8e279d885010146e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7>
	 <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net>
	 <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default>
	 <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <001a01c60f1c$c1a2a300$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com>
	 <7dde4aac0601020918k76fb104dm8e279d885010146e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78f89520601021001w7a9c541amc653c1562946a818@mail.gmail.com>

I've ordered from futurlec twice now, both transactions have gone
smoothly.  Still, I'm uneasy about them...  They've got 3080's for .85
apiece too.

On 1/2/06, S. P. W. <switchbladekey at gmail.com> wrote:
> What about Mouser?
>
> They claim that this item is a direct replacement for the CA3080E*
>
> http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=347638
>
> It is well under $2.00 each, is it unsuitable in some way I'm missing?
>
> In general I don't know what effect these 4xxx series chips will have
> on sound. I read an article on synth repair that pre 85 or so, 4xxx
> chips were on a different micron standard which caused them to degrade
> slowly over time until failing. I figured mine were either operating
> poorly, on their way out, or already failed. Since the Chorus squelch
> and articulator mode two were non-functional, I had some evidence to
> support this theory.
>
> Replacing all the other 4xxx IC's on the control board has, to my ear,
> been a positive change largely resulting in reduced noise and better
> filter performance. I have not noticed any negatives as yet. All that
> is left for me to change is the 3080's.
>
> I planned to order the NTE996's to replace all the ca3080's in my Opus
> 3, would that be a mistake? Since they are so cheap, I guess I can try
> it and be the guinea pig for the group.
>
> take care,
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> * E=8 pin dip with close tolerances & expanded temperature range
> On 1/1/06, Pat Kammerer <spivkurl at wearerecords.com> wrote:
> > Just expect a wait from my experience.  The quality is good though.  Also,
> > beware if you order capacitors, as the bags are labeled wrong about 1/3 of
> > the time.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
> > To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 1:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, harrybissell wrote:
> > >
> > > > for heaven's sake... at those prices why not go to Futurlec and
> > > > buy the CA3280 instead ???
> > >
> > > > H^) harry
> > >
> > > Have you had good luck with them? I had heard futurlec might be a bit
> > > dodgy.
> > >
> > > - Aaron
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > >
> > > Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> > > School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> > > Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> > > Mail Code 0250                         Web:
> > users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
> > > Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



From jmahoney at gate.net  Mon Jan  2 19:01:07 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:01:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020225550.24859@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <04c301c60fc6$81f0c8e0$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

Aaron wrote:
> Are all my op amp bases covered? ...

Well, Ray Wilson "discovered" the LF442 and LF444. Here's his comment:
    "... I am planning on re-evaluating all of my circuits with the LF444
(low power op amp). These things are great. You get decent slew rates and
much lower current consumption than with TL084s and TL082s. All of the
circuits in the Sound Lab together draws less than 6mA."
(
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/SOUNDLABMINISYNTH/soundlab.html )

So, I don't know, maybe you want to encourage your students to use "modern",
low current devices? Something other than the good old TL-series, just for
the sake of originality.

Sidebar: The subject of low voltage modulars has come up on this list (I may
have started a thread on it), and maybe that is an angle that you'd like to
explore. We tend to use +/-15 or +/-12 volt supplies, but what about using
+/-5V or -- gasp! -- single 5V supplies? Maybe there would be
signal-to-noise problems, but perhaps that's not a real problem given the
lower noise of newer components. (My stereo system performs quite well using
1 volt "line level" signals.) I can understand your desire to be compatible
with other systems, though.

That's enough rambling from me! (Still a little tired from the weekend
festivities.)
--
john



From oldcrow at oldcrows.net  Mon Jan  2 19:14:55 2006
From: oldcrow at oldcrows.net (The Old Crow)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 13:14:55 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk> <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default> <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <43B96D9F.805@oldcrows.net>

  FWIW, I bought 100pcs. of 3280 from futurlec last summer--they arrived 
quickly, and all of them tested out fine.

Crow
/**/

Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>
> On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, harrybissell wrote:
>
>> for heaven's sake... at those prices why not go to Futurlec and
>> buy the CA3280 instead ???
>
>
>> H^) harry
>
>
> Have you had good luck with them? I had heard futurlec might be a bit 
> dodgy.
>
> - Aaron




From rykhaard at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 19:29:38 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:29:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <78f89520601021001w7a9c541amc653c1562946a818@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default>
	 <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <001a01c60f1c$c1a2a300$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com>
	 <7dde4aac0601020918k76fb104dm8e279d885010146e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <78f89520601021001w7a9c541amc653c1562946a818@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601021029o356f09x4fb2d1f348787f87@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/2/06, Jeff Farr <moogah at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've ordered from futurlec twice now, both transactions have gone
> smoothly.  Still, I'm uneasy about them...  They've got 3080's for .85
> apiece too.
>
>
>From all of the other CA3080 pricings that I've seen in the last few days,
at $0.85 U.S. seems quite good! :)

I don't know about Futurlec myself though ........ I've never dealt with
them.

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0206 update
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  2 19:40:30 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:40:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B96609.9010706@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060102184031.4773.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com>

If you run on 0-15V and bias to 1/2V... it will still
  clip symmetrically, but to 0-15V.
  
  If some of the sound u like is comming from blasting
  the CMOS inputs... then you should stay where you are at.
  
  I can see no reason to not use the shottky diodes...
  
  H^) harry

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:  Harry Bissell Jr wrote:

> Just saw the schematic.
>
> I would AC couple into the first opamp, bias the non-inverting input
> at 1/2Vcc and run the opamp on 0-15V (like a guitar stompbox). That
> would cure all your worries about exceeding the CMOS limits
> completely.
>
Wouldn't this introduce non-symmetrical hard clipping since the TL072 
won't go down to negative rail voltage?  I will try it, but I'm really 
happy with the sounds I can get from the current circuit, so I'm still 
leaning towards the schottky diode option.

Seb




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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 19:48:41 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:48:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Finally - the first workings of my own designed sequencer. :)
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601021048xe630862l5ac5f908a08cc6f6@mail.gmail.com>

Please do pardon my excitement, but I just had a to quickly burble some of
my ultra-happiness! :D

I just got my own sequencer design up and running for the first time in my
10 years of wanting to build it!  :)

Hearing 2 of it's 4 steps, happily bubbling away in 1V/octave from it's 2 of
8 hooked up, rotary switches, was absolutely wild! :D  Changing the notes of
Step 1 and Step 2 (with 3 and 4 being 0.00V with no switches hooked up)
within the octave that each Rotary is capable of, was absolutely wonderful!
:D

Finally - after 23 or so years of wanting a sequencer like this (strong
Tangerine Dream influence), it's started it's 1st walk!  :D

(Small babble of pretty much the same about it, in the Design section, at my
webpage).  As soon as I have all 8 Rotary switches hooked up (in 4 pairs of
2 Rotaries, with a switch between each pair, to select the pitch at each
step) and I have it's Gate working - I'll start posting wav samples of it,
at my webpage. :)  Later this week.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. :D  "Dawn of The Woody V2.00" is alive and well. ;)
("Woody" was it's original name in 1995, as I wanted to have it on a wooden
panel, with wooden knobs.  A minor name tribute to "Dawn of The Dead" and
the 2nd Dickies album, "Dawn of The Dickies". :) )

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
2705 update
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From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 19:58:29 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:58:29 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601021029o356f09x4fb2d1f348787f87@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default>
	 <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <001a01c60f1c$c1a2a300$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com>
	 <7dde4aac0601020918k76fb104dm8e279d885010146e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <78f89520601021001w7a9c541amc653c1562946a818@mail.gmail.com>
	 <b6b288a70601021029o356f09x4fb2d1f348787f87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87441170601021058m3fbc235x2a3aaba5c62c11e6@mail.gmail.com>

Ordered a tube of twenty 3280s from Futurlec, and got them in less than two
weeks. I'm pretty happy.

Tim (pretty happy New Year) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


On 1/2/06, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. <rykhaard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/2/06, Jeff Farr <moogah at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've ordered from futurlec twice now, both transactions have gone
> > smoothly.  Still, I'm uneasy about them...  They've got 3080's for .85
> > apiece too.
> >
> >
> From all of the other CA3080 pricings that I've seen in the last few days,
> at $0.85 U.S. seems quite good! :)
>
> I don't know about Futurlec myself though ........ I've never dealt with
> them.
>
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
>
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
> Jan. 0206 update
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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 20:01:54 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:01:54 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <20060102184031.4773.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102184031.4773.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B978A2.7090703@burnit.co.uk>

Harry Bissell Jr wrote:

> If you run on 0-15V and bias to 1/2V... it will still
> clip symmetrically, but to 0-15V.
>
I thought that a TL072 would clip a bit nearer the +ve rail than the 
-ve, hence the idea to bias it a bit more than 1/2V

> If some of the sound u like is comming from blasting
> the CMOS inputs... then you should stay where you are at.
>
> I can see no reason to not use the shottky diodes...
>
I'll give them a try and see how it sounds.

Thanks for all your help.
Seb




From dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 20:20:42 2006
From: dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com (dustin sedlacek)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:20:42 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] RE: [sdiy] Aaron's modular synth manufacturer list
In-Reply-To: <200601021617.k02GHUoT099822@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
References: <200601021617.k02GHUoT099822@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <b50a5d0a0601021120v4d0388eaoa362021bd075b981@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.cluboftheknobs.com/
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From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Mon Jan  2 20:48:20 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:48:20 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020225550.24859@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <001a01c60fd5$7c89e3a0$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:34 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive


> I originally put this together for my student's (and my) use, but I'm sure
> others will find it useful as well:
>
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/
>
> (Jim, you'll see why I asked that question)
>
> Are all my op amp bases covered? I have LM324/LM358 for single supply CV
> (is there a single version?), TL07x/TL08x for audio, NE553x for super
> duper audio... To design synths, are there any other op amp types a
> designer should be sure to have on hand?

Thanks for putting together this useful resource!  I noticed that you did
not include CA3140 in your op amp list.  I find this to be quite useful in
some cases, and I know it's in quite a few designs.  Off the top of my head
I know that digisound used them regularly.  Thank you again, though.




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Mon Jan  2 20:58:47 2006
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:58:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <20060102162349.19241.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102162349.19241.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B985F7.5060506@uni-bonn.de>

Hi Harry, Seb and all,

Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
> with a 10K resistor in the inout you might be over the edge. I'd be
>   concerned. You might want to use shottky clamp diodes instead
>   of allowinng the CMOS input diodes to clip.

A few mA into the diodes won't hurt. There is a parasitic thyristor 
which might fire when a certain current is exceeded. No need for extra 
shottkys IMO, I'd rather make that resistor a little larger.
Ok, this is stretching the ratings in the datasheet a little, but does 
work.

Btw, this sort of overdrive is explicitly allowed for the 4049 and 4050, 
to be able to do a 15V to 5V crossvolt conversion. Check the datasheet 
on these.

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159




From sonicwarrior at gmx.de  Mon Jan  2 21:08:20 2006
From: sonicwarrior at gmx.de (Joachim)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 21:08:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's modular synth manufacturer list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020243120.24876@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020243120.24876@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <b2010a974dfe889af70e80db7f704561@gmx.de>

Hi,

Additional to the ones already names by others:

Curetronic in Germany:
http://curetronic.de/
Kits and fully assembled, in 5 HE Moog style or 6 HE more or less  
Formant style.

A superb VCO is available as PCB from Anyware Instruments:
http://www.anyware-instruments.de/
But the documentation for that is in german only and the PCB is only
produced on request.
You probably know Anyware Instruments from the Original Simplesizer  
Project
(Elby Designs Hobbit is a copy of that).
Anyware also has made the HelLFO:
http://www.sequencer.de/forumsynth/lfo.html
which is a somewhat custom design for Moogulator, but I think the PCB  
is also
available on request.

Regards,
Joachim


Am 02.01.2006 um 08:44 schrieb Aaron Lanterman:

>
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/synthcompanies.html
>
> Am I missing anyone?
>
> - Aaron
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ------
>
> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> Mail Code 0250                         Web:     
> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
> Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>
>



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 21:21:19 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:21:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B985F7.5060506@uni-bonn.de>
References: <20060102162349.19241.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com> <43B985F7.5060506@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <43B98B3F.1050102@burnit.co.uk>

Ren? Schmitz wrote:

> Hi Harry, Seb and all,
>
> Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
>
>> with a 10K resistor in the inout you might be over the edge. I'd be
>>   concerned. You might want to use shottky clamp diodes instead
>>   of allowinng the CMOS input diodes to clip.
>
>
> A few mA into the diodes won't hurt. There is a parasitic thyristor 
> which might fire when a certain current is exceeded. No need for extra 
> shottkys IMO, I'd rather make that resistor a little larger.
> Ok, this is stretching the ratings in the datasheet a little, but does 
> work.
>
> Btw, this sort of overdrive is explicitly allowed for the 4049 and 
> 4050, to be able to do a 15V to 5V crossvolt conversion. Check the 
> datasheet on these.
>
 From what I can tell from the datasheet the 4049 doesn't have the 
protection diode from input to VDD.   Instead it has a 30V zener from 
VSS to input.  So there's still no clue as to the max current that can 
flow through the protection diode(s) without damage.

But you have encouraged me just to try a larger input resistor (e.g. 
100K).  Perhaps I should leave it running for some time with a 
full-scale-input and see if any damage occurs (i.e. if it stops clipping 
at the input I'll know I've burnt out the diode)

Seb




From xamboldt at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  2 21:28:13 2006
From: xamboldt at earthlink.net (xamboldt)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 15:28:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's modular synth manufacturer list
In-Reply-To: <b2010a974dfe889af70e80db7f704561@gmx.de>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020243120.24876@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <b2010a974dfe889af70e80db7f704561@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <A41DB00F-57D8-4AD0-81E2-951305E7C5B4@earthlink.net>

I also suppose you could add Moog to the list since the Voyager is  
somewhat modular, especially if you add the CV expander box...

-Chris

On Jan 2, 2006, at 3:08 PM, Joachim wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Additional to the ones already names by others:
>
> Curetronic in Germany:
> http://curetronic.de/
> Kits and fully assembled, in 5 HE Moog style or 6 HE more or less  
> Formant style.
>
> A superb VCO is available as PCB from Anyware Instruments:
> http://www.anyware-instruments.de/
> But the documentation for that is in german only and the PCB is only
> produced on request.
> You probably know Anyware Instruments from the Original Simplesizer  
> Project
> (Elby Designs Hobbit is a copy of that).
> Anyware also has made the HelLFO:
> http://www.sequencer.de/forumsynth/lfo.html
> which is a somewhat custom design for Moogulator, but I think the  
> PCB is also
> available on request.
>
> Regards,
> Joachim
>
>
> Am 02.01.2006 um 08:44 schrieb Aaron Lanterman:
>
>>
>> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/synthcompanies.html
>>
>> Am I missing anyone?
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> --------
>>
>> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
>> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
>> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail:  
>> lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
>> Mail Code 0250                         Web:     
>> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
>> Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>>
>>
>



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  2 22:09:31 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:09:31 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB - Final Circuit
Message-ID: <43B9968B.70204@burnit.co.uk>

Well, after much agonising over how to protect the 4069 input I've 
decided to up the input resistor to 100K (and increase the feedback 
resistor proportionally).  This has made absolutely no difference to the 
sound and the current through the 4069 internal protection diodes 
shouldn't now exceed ~0.05 mA.

Also, there was a mistake in the input pot & opamp configuration before 
- now there should be an almost perfect log response from the 100K 
linear pot (by having the 12K resistor to virtual ground at the opamp 
input).  The linear pot output volume control should also have a good 
log response providing it's driving something with a fairly high impedance.

http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/mosfet_distortion.gif

Thanks to those who gave help and advice :)

Seb




From rtellason at blazenet.net  Mon Jan  2 22:24:51 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 16:24:51 -0500
Subject: Tube Sound was Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <200601021708.k02H8Rp20272@linux7>
References: <200601021708.k02H8Rp20272@linux7>
Message-ID: <200601021624.51386.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Monday 02 January 2006 11:08 am, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> When you say "warm", would that be warm like vacuum tube sonic warmth?

Speaking of which,  has anybody tried some sort of a filter to go for that 
"tube sound",  the kind you get with old radios and such?

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Jan  2 22:39:51 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:39:51 -0700
Subject: Tube Sound was Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
Message-ID: <200601022239.k02Mdpp21273@linux7>

"Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at blazenet.net> wrote:
>On Monday 02 January 2006 04:52 pm, R. D. Davis wrote:
>> Quothe Roy J. Tellason, from writings of Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 04:24:51PM 
>-0500:
>> > Speaking of which,  has anybody tried some sort of a filter to go for
>> > that "tube sound",  the kind you get with old radios and such?
>>
>> Why go through all that extra work instead of just putting a tube in
>> the circuit?
>
>Bulk,  heat,  power requirements...

as well as things that burn out and then become unobtanium...



>
>-- 
>Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
>ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
>be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
>-
>Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
>M Dakin
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  2 22:42:15 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:42:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B985F7.5060506@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <20060102214215.26699.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>

If he can truly reach 17V on a 15V supply... there is likely substantial
  current there. 18V is the max rating (ok some might say 20V)... so I'd still
  be very concerned.  I agree that raising the input resistor value is prudent...
  but the feedback has to go up as well to keep the same gain.
  
  I might want to let that one run for some weeks in overdrive...
  
  H^) harry

Ren? Schmitz <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de> wrote:  Hi Harry, Seb and all,

Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
> with a 10K resistor in the inout you might be over the edge. I'd be
>   concerned. You might want to use shottky clamp diodes instead
>   of allowinng the CMOS input diodes to clip.

A few mA into the diodes won't hurt. There is a parasitic thyristor 
which might fire when a certain current is exceeded. No need for extra 
shottkys IMO, I'd rather make that resistor a little larger.
Ok, this is stretching the ratings in the datasheet a little, but does 
work.

Btw, this sort of overdrive is explicitly allowed for the 4049 and 4050, 
to be able to do a 15V to 5V crossvolt conversion. Check the datasheet 
on these.

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159




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From rdd at rddavis.org  Mon Jan  2 22:52:18 2006
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: 2 Jan 2006 16:52:18 -0500
Subject: Tube Sound was Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <200601021624.51386.rtellason@blazenet.net>
References: <200601021708.k02H8Rp20272@linux7> <200601021624.51386.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <20060102215218.GB10287@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Roy J. Tellason, from writings of Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 04:24:51PM -0500:
> Speaking of which,  has anybody tried some sort of a filter to go for that 
> "tube sound",  the kind you get with old radios and such?

Why go through all that extra work instead of just putting a tube in
the circuit?

> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by
> lies. --James M Dakin
^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HBushes and Clintons --Anonymous

-- 
   R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other animals: an
www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature & her
     Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify such
   Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  2 22:54:29 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:54:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B964EA.6000704@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060102215429.96828.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com>

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:  Hi Harry,

This is the current circuit:
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/mosfet_distortion.gif


Yep, that's right - with a 1uF cap before the 10K resistor.  I 
experimented with also adding DC bias to the CMOS input to make the 
distortion more symmetrical, but I found that it didn't make much 
difference.

It would not make a difference. The circuit will self bias to the crossover
  point between the N and P transistors because of the feedback resistor.
  
  Kind of cool, that....
  
  H^) harry

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From rtellason at blazenet.net  Mon Jan  2 23:10:29 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:10:29 -0500
Subject: Tube Sound was Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <20060102215218.GB10287@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
References: <200601021708.k02H8Rp20272@linux7> <200601021624.51386.rtellason@blazenet.net> <20060102215218.GB10287@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <200601021709.46721.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Monday 02 January 2006 04:52 pm, R. D. Davis wrote:
> Quothe Roy J. Tellason, from writings of Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 04:24:51PM 
-0500:
> > Speaking of which,  has anybody tried some sort of a filter to go for
> > that "tube sound",  the kind you get with old radios and such?
>
> Why go through all that extra work instead of just putting a tube in
> the circuit?

Bulk,  heat,  power requirements...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Mon Jan  2 23:14:58 2006
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 23:14:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B98B3F.1050102@burnit.co.uk>
References: <20060102162349.19241.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com> <43B985F7.5060506@uni-bonn.de> <43B98B3F.1050102@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43B9A5E2.4060306@uni-bonn.de>

Hi Seb and all,

Seb Francis wrote:

>  From what I can tell from the datasheet the 4049 doesn't have the 
> protection diode from input to VDD.   Instead it has a 30V zener from 
> VSS to input.  So there's still no clue as to the max current that can 
> flow through the protection diode(s) without damage.
> 
> But you have encouraged me just to try a larger input resistor (e.g. 
> 100K).  Perhaps I should leave it running for some time with a 
> full-scale-input and see if any damage occurs (i.e. if it stops clipping 
> at the input I'll know I've burnt out the diode)

If you exceeded the input current, and would fire that parasitic 
thyristor (aka SCR latchup) the 4069 could burn out, since the thyristor 
would run enough current from Vdd to Vss for a meltdown. IIRC one would 
need several mA for fireing that thyristor, you should be safe with this 
now.

The diode itself is there for static protection, and can run more 
current than those few mA, but only if there is no power applied.

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159




From moogah at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 23:31:56 2006
From: moogah at gmail.com (Jeff Farr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:31:56 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Source for eurocard PCB's in the US?
Message-ID: <78f89520601021431k3c09cc40g33e9654facc2e56d@mail.gmail.com>

Got a nasty suprise last week when I found that the american 4x6
presensitized PCB's are just a touch shorter than a 100x160 eurocard. 
Found what I need at Farnell, but they were apparantly all on vacation
last week and still havn't responded to my emails asking what's up. 
So..  Can I find these within the US or Canada?  Better yet, is there
a brand which I can use the same developer I bought from MG Chemicals?



From amajorel at teaser.fr  Mon Jan  2 23:38:09 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:38:09 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Round Molex Pins
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-F240ED29BDD6B5A9F56BA33B32A0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY115-F240ED29BDD6B5A9F56BA33B32A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060102223808.GA12222@atc5.vermine.org>

On 2006-01-01 13:32 -0500, Michael Ruberto wrote:

> I found a very nice deal on Molex .156 headers with round pins. I'll have 
> to order housings and contacts from Allied or Mouser but I only see one 
> type of contact available. Anyone know if the standard contact can be used 
> with both square and round pin headers?

I have a couple, unbranded. Pin diameter is same as the size of
the usual square pins, i.e. about 1.1 mm. Tried them with regular
Molex female housing and contacts ; they fit and appear to make
good contact. No idea how reliable the combination is. With round
pins, the contact area is smaller.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From rdd at rddavis.org  Mon Jan  2 23:44:26 2006
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: 2 Jan 2006 17:44:26 -0500
Subject: Tube Sound was Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <200601021709.46721.rtellason@blazenet.net>
References: <200601021708.k02H8Rp20272@linux7> <200601021624.51386.rtellason@blazenet.net> <20060102215218.GB10287@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <200601021709.46721.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <20060102224426.GD10287@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Roy J. Tellason, from writings of Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 05:10:29PM -0500:
> On Monday 02 January 2006 04:52 pm, R. D. Davis wrote:
> > Why go through all that extra work instead of just putting a tube in
> > the circuit?
> 
> Bulk,  heat,  power requirements...

...and fun along with practicality; let's not forget that tubes are
fun!  Therefore, does not the element of fun combined with the
practicality of a real tube shift the scales in favor of using a tube?

Of course, one could go to the other somewhat practical, although quite
frighteningly artificial, extreme and just do it all in software.  ...or
use real FETs as opposed to GlassFETs.

-- 
   R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other animals: an
www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature & her
     Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify such
   Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.


From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Jan  2 23:45:07 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:45:07 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
Message-ID: <200601022345.k02Nj7p26956@linux7>

Harry Bissell Jr <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
>
>One other problem might be that you are using two stages
>  in linear mode. These will get hotter than normal. Make sure it
>  does not run TOO hot. Its probably Ok.
>  
>  The resistors do not limit this power... it flows from N to P channel device
>  which are both 'half on'. It will be worst with no signal input
>  
>  H^) harry

I'm thinking of trying a +/-5Volt supply version where I can then run the 4069UB (or 4007) and  the
opamp from the same supplies.  Lowering the voltage from 15 to 10 will produce less heat.  I've
made several circuits using 4069UB inverters in linear mode and with only mild heat.  However,
those were devices that did not have a chance for outputs to sit halfway between the supply rails.  

Just letting it sit powered up with no input is the worst case test for heat production.

>
>Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:  Ren? Schmitz wrote:
>
>> Hi Harry, Seb and all,
>>
>> Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
>>
>>> with a 10K resistor in the inout you might be over the edge. I'd be
>>>   concerned. You might want to use shottky clamp diodes instead
>>>   of allowinng the CMOS input diodes to clip.
>>
>>
>> A few mA into the diodes won't hurt. There is a parasitic thyristor 
>> which might fire when a certain current is exceeded. No need for extra 
>> shottkys IMO, I'd rather make that resistor a little larger.
>> Ok, this is stretching the ratings in the datasheet a little, but does 
>> work.
>>
>> Btw, this sort of overdrive is explicitly allowed for the 4049 and 
>> 4050, to be able to do a 15V to 5V crossvolt conversion. Check the 
>> datasheet on these.
>>
> From what I can tell from the datasheet the 4049 doesn't have the 
>protection diode from input to VDD.   Instead it has a 30V zener from 
>VSS to input.  So there's still no clue as to the max current that can 
>flow through the protection diode(s) without damage.
>
>But you have encouraged me just to try a larger input resistor (e.g. 
>100K).  Perhaps I should leave it running for some time with a 
>full-scale-input and see if any damage occurs (i.e. if it stops clipping 
>at the input I'll know I've burnt out the diode)
>
>Seb
>
>
>
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Jan  3 00:00:44 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:00:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
Message-ID: <200601030000.k0300ip28268@linux7>

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
>
>> One other problem might be that you are using two stages
>> in linear mode. These will get hotter than normal. Make sure it
>> does not run TOO hot. Its probably Ok.
>>
>> The resistors do not limit this power... it flows from N to P channel 
>> device
>> which are both 'half on'. It will be worst with no signal input
>>
>Yeah I did notice it uses a lot of current .. about 28mA with no 
>signal.  This could be a problem because I plan to use the other 3 
>buffers for a 2nd channel of distortion.  When 28mA was measured the 
>other 3 inputs were hooked to 0V, so I'd imagine it would take more like 
>56mA when using all 6 buffers.  This equates to 840mW at 15V (the 
>absolute maximum is dissipation on the datasheet is 700mW).
>
>Any way round this?  A heatsink perhaps?

Maybe lower the supply voltage.  +/- 5V ?

If you must have 15 volts, I would do this with either 2 x 4007 or 2 x
4069UB.  I've done linear stuff with a 4069UB, but not using all six
inverters that way.  I made a dual triangle LFO with a 4069UB and it got
warm, running at 8V.  Two of the inverters were integrators, 4 were used
to make two schmitt triggers so not all the amps were linear.

>Seb
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From sdiy at oveloe.com  Tue Jan  3 00:05:13 2006
From: sdiy at oveloe.com (Charles Bisaillon)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:05:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <BFDF1BD9.531C%sdiy@oveloe.com>

Ok, so what is your solution then. Your word is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Charles





> Why I don't use breadboards - by H^) harry
> 
> When I was in college, a good friend of mine designed a circuit.
> It was a theatrical light dimmer. Back in those dark days... many
> theatrical light dimmers were still mechanical, or motor driven
> rheostats
> or variable transformers. There were some commercial thyristor designs,
> but
> they were still in their infancy. (no... they didn't use gaslights back
> then :^)
> 
> The design was a voltage controlled dimmer. 0-10V in for full range
> control.
> 
> He got a commercial prospect to come and see the design. Of course the
> solderless breadboard chose that time to fail. He begged and pleaded...
> just
> five more minutes, it works I swear it does...  Well the guy gave him an
> hour
> to no avail.
> 
> Two hours later, he found a wire that had snuck through a gap in-between
> rows
> and shorted.
> 
> Two hours too late, too bad.  The opportunity was gone.
> 
> LOL... we had a small breadboard at work.  When we were forced to 'clean
> the lab' I helped by offering to throw it away.  It was the ONE thing I
> was sure we would never
> miss :^P
> 
> SMT will certainly obsolete the solderless breadboard. Maybe SMT is not
> ALL bad :^)
> (it will obsolete my favored technique, vectorboard and T42-A pins)
> 
> If you like to use breadboards, that's cool. They were mainly used for
> teaching
> basic electronics in schools, so that parts etc could be re-used. Kind
> of like what they
> do with SPICE today.
> 
> Bob Pease made the following points in his book "Troubleshooting Analog
> Circuits"
> 
> 1) Capacitance: 2-5 pF between adjacent strips "On a good day, only a
> wise engineer
> could plan a layout that all the capacitors, sprinkled throughout the
> circuit, wouldn't ruin"
> 
> 2) Long leads : make adding effective bypass capacitors close to a chip,
> difficult.
> 
> 3) Plastics : esp Nylon, on warm humid days insulation resistance
> suffers (too low).
> 
> 4) Contamination : Solder scrapes off the leads and can build up causing
> shorts.
> The adhesive makes it difficult to blow the scrap away with compressed
> air. (courtesy of Scott Bowman, Dublin CA.)
> 
> Bob concludes...
> 
> "I didn't even think about these solderless breadboards when I wrote my
> series
> because I see them so rarely at work. They just have too many
> disadvantages
> to be good for any serious work. So, if you insist on using these slabs
> of trouble,
> don't say that I didn't warn you."
> 
> The breadboards are like SPICE in many ways. They let you try an idea
> quickly.
> In either case... I would not trust a SPICE simulation until I had built
> the real thing
> and compared the performance (to improve both the circuit, and the spice
> models).
> 
> Be afraid... be very afraid...   :^P
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan  3 00:12:40 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 15:12:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43B98B3F.1050102@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060102231240.23932.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com>

One other problem might be that you are using two stages
  in linear mode. These will get hotter than normal. Make sure it
  does not run TOO hot. Its probably Ok.
  
  The resistors do not limit this power... it flows from N to P channel device
  which are both 'half on'. It will be worst with no signal input
  
  H^) harry

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:  Ren? Schmitz wrote:

> Hi Harry, Seb and all,
>
> Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
>
>> with a 10K resistor in the inout you might be over the edge. I'd be
>>   concerned. You might want to use shottky clamp diodes instead
>>   of allowinng the CMOS input diodes to clip.
>
>
> A few mA into the diodes won't hurt. There is a parasitic thyristor 
> which might fire when a certain current is exceeded. No need for extra 
> shottkys IMO, I'd rather make that resistor a little larger.
> Ok, this is stretching the ratings in the datasheet a little, but does 
> work.
>
> Btw, this sort of overdrive is explicitly allowed for the 4049 and 
> 4050, to be able to do a 15V to 5V crossvolt conversion. Check the 
> datasheet on these.
>
 From what I can tell from the datasheet the 4049 doesn't have the 
protection diode from input to VDD.   Instead it has a 30V zener from 
VSS to input.  So there's still no clue as to the max current that can 
flow through the protection diode(s) without damage.

But you have encouraged me just to try a larger input resistor (e.g. 
100K).  Perhaps I should leave it running for some time with a 
full-scale-input and see if any damage occurs (i.e. if it stops clipping 
at the input I'll know I've burnt out the diode)

Seb




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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan  3 00:24:34 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 23:24:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <20060102214215.26699.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102214215.26699.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B9B632.60502@burnit.co.uk>

Harry Bissell Jr wrote:

> If he can truly reach 17V on a 15V supply... there is likely substantial
> current there. 18V is the max rating (ok some might say 20V)... so I'd 
> still
> be very concerned.  I agree that raising the input resistor value is 
> prudent...
> but the feedback has to go up as well to keep the same gain.
>
When I said 17V ptp, this was just the number that my digital scope told 
me - it's probably not that accurate and could be like 16.5V or 
something.  With a 100K input resistor (and a 1M feedback resistor), 
there *can't* be very much current flowing, so I feel fairly safe now.

> I might want to let that one run for some weeks in overdrive...

This is one IC that's definitely going to be put in a socket for easy 
replacement!

Seb




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan  3 00:28:32 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 23:28:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <20060102215429.96828.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102215429.96828.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B9B720.509@burnit.co.uk>

Harry Bissell Jr wrote:

> */Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>/* wrote:
>
>     Hi Harry,
>
>     This is the current circuit:
>     http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/mosfet_distortion.gif
>
>
>     Yep, that's right - with a 1uF cap before the 10K resistor. I
>     experimented with also adding DC bias to the CMOS input to make the
>     distortion more symmetrical, but I found that it didn't make much
>     difference.
>
> It would not make a difference. The circuit will self bias to the 
> crossover
> point between the N and P transistors because of the feedback resistor.
>
Actually even the 3rd stage which doesn't have a feedback resistor seems 
to self-bias (it just takes a while to settle).  Maybe I should stick a 
few megs across it just for stability .. but then again I quite like a 
bit of instability in my analog sound, and by the time the signal gets 
to the 3rd stage it's pretty much rail to rail so the bias point makes 
less difference.

> Kind of cool, that....
>
Yeah, I thought so :)

Seb




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan  3 00:37:40 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 23:37:40 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <20060102231240.23932.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102231240.23932.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B9B944.3010604@burnit.co.uk>

Harry Bissell Jr wrote:

> One other problem might be that you are using two stages
> in linear mode. These will get hotter than normal. Make sure it
> does not run TOO hot. Its probably Ok.
>
> The resistors do not limit this power... it flows from N to P channel 
> device
> which are both 'half on'. It will be worst with no signal input
>
Yeah I did notice it uses a lot of current .. about 28mA with no 
signal.  This could be a problem because I plan to use the other 3 
buffers for a 2nd channel of distortion.  When 28mA was measured the 
other 3 inputs were hooked to 0V, so I'd imagine it would take more like 
56mA when using all 6 buffers.  This equates to 840mW at 15V (the 
absolute maximum is dissipation on the datasheet is 700mW).

Any way round this?  A heatsink perhaps?

Seb




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan  3 01:04:13 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:04:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <200601022345.k02Nj7p26956@linux7>
References: <200601022345.k02Nj7p26956@linux7>
Message-ID: <43B9BF7D.8000303@burnit.co.uk>

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>Harry Bissell Jr <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
>>
>>One other problem might be that you are using two stages
>> in linear mode. These will get hotter than normal. Make sure it
>> does not run TOO hot. Its probably Ok.
>> 
>> The resistors do not limit this power... it flows from N to P channel device
>> which are both 'half on'. It will be worst with no signal input
>> 
>> H^) harry
>>    
>>
>
>I'm thinking of trying a +/-5Volt supply version where I can then run the 4069UB (or 4007) and  the
>opamp from the same supplies.  Lowering the voltage from 15 to 10 will produce less heat.  I've
>made several circuits using 4069UB inverters in linear mode and with only mild heat.  However,
>those were devices that did not have a chance for outputs to sit halfway between the supply rails.  
>
>Just letting it sit powered up with no input is the worst case test for heat production.
>  
>
I don't think it's a problem when using only 3 of the inverters.  Mine's 
been switched on with no input for a while now and is only just warm to 
touch (the DIP version can dissipate 700mW).  I think using all 6 
however will be too much..

Of course, if you're running it from batteries, then this kind of power 
consumption probably is a problem!

Seb




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan  3 01:09:53 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:09:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <200601030000.k0300cp28250@linux7>
References: <200601030000.k0300cp28250@linux7>
Message-ID: <43B9C0D1.1000308@burnit.co.uk>

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>>>      
>>>
>>Yeah I did notice it uses a lot of current .. about 28mA with no 
>>signal.  This could be a problem because I plan to use the other 3 
>>buffers for a 2nd channel of distortion.  When 28mA was measured the 
>>other 3 inputs were hooked to 0V, so I'd imagine it would take more like 
>>56mA when using all 6 buffers.  This equates to 840mW at 15V (the 
>>absolute maximum is dissipation on the datasheet is 700mW).
>>
>>Any way round this?  A heatsink perhaps?
>>    
>>
>
>Maybe lower the supply voltage.  +/- 5V ?
>
>If you must have 15 volts, I would do this with either 2 x 4007 or 2 x
>4069UB.  I've done linear stuff with a 4069UB, but not using all six
>inverters that way.  I made a dual triangle LFO with a 4069UB and it got
>warm, running at 8V.  Two of the inverters were integrators, 4 were used
>to make two schmitt triggers so not all the amps were linear.
>  
>
I'm leaning towards the idea of using 2 x 4069s.  I'd prefer to stay at 
15 volts because that's what power I have available (and actually I 
think even at 10V, using 6 inverters in linear mode will be pushing it).

Anyway, I was a bit worried about cross-talk when using the same device 
for 2 channels, so it would also be better from this point of view just 
spend the extra 20p and use 2 :-)

Seb




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan  3 01:42:48 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:42:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4007
References: <20060102231240.23932.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com> <43B9B944.3010604@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43B9C888.4C53FB9E@prodigy.net>

1) use two packages...

2) switch to the 4007 which has two complementary pairs
plus inverter. With the two pairs, you can add what would
be called 'emitter resistors' in a comp symmetry audio amp...

series resistor from the output of the N, and a series resistor from
the P... take your output from the center tap.

Set the idle current you want with the two resistors.  With like
1M feedback they could be 500 ohms or so. Now the dissipation is
controllable.

Use the "inverter" section for stage three, which should draw the least
power.

This would require two packages for a two channel solution as well...

H^) harry

Seb Francis wrote:
> 
> Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
> 
> > One other problem might be that you are using two stages
> > in linear mode. These will get hotter than normal. Make sure it
> > does not run TOO hot. Its probably Ok.
> >
> > The resistors do not limit this power... it flows from N to P channel
> > device
> > which are both 'half on'. It will be worst with no signal input
> >
> Yeah I did notice it uses a lot of current .. about 28mA with no
> signal.  This could be a problem because I plan to use the other 3
> buffers for a 2nd channel of distortion.  When 28mA was measured the
> other 3 inputs were hooked to 0V, so I'd imagine it would take more like
> 56mA when using all 6 buffers.  This equates to 840mW at 15V (the
> absolute maximum is dissipation on the datasheet is 700mW).
> 
> Any way round this?  A heatsink perhaps?
> 
> Seb


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan  3 01:45:03 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:45:03 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
References: <200601030000.k0300cp28250@linux7> <43B9C0D1.1000308@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43B9C90F.D9BA8B4@prodigy.net>

don't need +/-5V...

just use 5V. who cares ?   You could use a simple
7805 or a shunt regulator (zener) and series
resistor.

Don't forget a good decoupling cap...

H^) harry

Seb Francis wrote:
> 
> Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Yeah I did notice it uses a lot of current .. about 28mA with no
> >>signal.  This could be a problem because I plan to use the other 3
> >>buffers for a 2nd channel of distortion.  When 28mA was measured the
> >>other 3 inputs were hooked to 0V, so I'd imagine it would take more like
> >>56mA when using all 6 buffers.  This equates to 840mW at 15V (the
> >>absolute maximum is dissipation on the datasheet is 700mW).
> >>
> >>Any way round this?  A heatsink perhaps?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Maybe lower the supply voltage.  +/- 5V ?
> >
> >If you must have 15 volts, I would do this with either 2 x 4007 or 2 x
> >4069UB.  I've done linear stuff with a 4069UB, but not using all six
> >inverters that way.  I made a dual triangle LFO with a 4069UB and it got
> >warm, running at 8V.  Two of the inverters were integrators, 4 were used
> >to make two schmitt triggers so not all the amps were linear.
> >
> >
> I'm leaning towards the idea of using 2 x 4069s.  I'd prefer to stay at
> 15 volts because that's what power I have available (and actually I
> think even at 10V, using 6 inverters in linear mode will be pushing it).
> 
> Anyway, I was a bit worried about cross-talk when using the same device
> for 2 channels, so it would also be better from this point of view just
> spend the extra 20p and use 2 :-)
> 
> Seb


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan  3 02:25:21 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:25:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Overdriving 4007
In-Reply-To: <43B9C888.4C53FB9E@prodigy.net>
References: <20060102231240.23932.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com> <43B9B944.3010604@burnit.co.uk> <43B9C888.4C53FB9E@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <43B9D281.4060800@burnit.co.uk>

Interesting .. definitely sounds the way to go for a battery operated 
device.

harrybissell wrote:

>1) use two packages...
>
>2) switch to the 4007 which has two complementary pairs
>plus inverter. With the two pairs, you can add what would
>be called 'emitter resistors' in a comp symmetry audio amp...
>
>series resistor from the output of the N, and a series resistor from
>the P... take your output from the center tap.
>
>Set the idle current you want with the two resistors.  With like
>1M feedback they could be 500 ohms or so. Now the dissipation is
>controllable.
>
>Use the "inverter" section for stage three, which should draw the least
>power.
>
>This would require two packages for a two channel solution as well...
>
>H^) harry
>
>Seb Francis wrote:
>  
>
>>Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>One other problem might be that you are using two stages
>>>in linear mode. These will get hotter than normal. Make sure it
>>>does not run TOO hot. Its probably Ok.
>>>
>>>The resistors do not limit this power... it flows from N to P channel
>>>device
>>>which are both 'half on'. It will be worst with no signal input
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Yeah I did notice it uses a lot of current .. about 28mA with no
>>signal.  This could be a problem because I plan to use the other 3
>>buffers for a 2nd channel of distortion.  When 28mA was measured the
>>other 3 inputs were hooked to 0V, so I'd imagine it would take more like
>>56mA when using all 6 buffers.  This equates to 840mW at 15V (the
>>absolute maximum is dissipation on the datasheet is 700mW).
>>
>>Any way round this?  A heatsink perhaps?
>>
>>Seb
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  3 02:32:04 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:32:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] electrix repeater mk2
In-Reply-To: <43B479E6.8020001@imt.net>
References: <002601c60aa4$3793df70$0100000a@geoffos1b9gcux>
 <43B479E6.8020001@imt.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060102182926.0343e9d0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 05:05 PM 12/29/05, Bob Weigel wrote:
>Anyone use futurlec lately?  I'm not getting quick email response.  I 
>wanted to order some of their TDA7294 and wondered if they are vertical 
>(V) package since it doesn't say. -Bob

Yeah, I just got a large order of their inexpensive 3080's and 3280's.  Had 
to wait a bit while they were on back order, but they came eventually (~6 wks).

   Ian 



From philmacnutt at mac.com  Tue Jan  3 02:37:27 2006
From: philmacnutt at mac.com (phil macnutt)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:37:27 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] noise...
Message-ID: <200601030143.k031hRG9021555@dropmix>

I'm trying to contact a member on this list that goes by "megohm".  I'm
afraid I've lost his contact info.  So megohm, If you are still on the list
can you ping me?

 

Sorry for the noise, guys.

 

Phil in austin

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From miah_more at mac.com  Tue Jan  3 02:37:28 2006
From: miah_more at mac.com (miah more)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:37:28 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <7494D93C-EFC1-426C-A73B-86A2E1A61A19@mac.com>

unsubscribe


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan  3 02:41:00 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:41:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk> <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <20060101085711.GO10396@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <43B9D62C.DBFFF14D@prodigy.net>


Tom Arnold wrote:

> In other interesting news, New Japan Radio still supports the process under
> which LM3080's were last made by National, so once there is a real market
> for 3080's ( after existing stocks are depleted a bit more ) I rather expect
> we'll see an NJR3080.  On the other hand, I'm only using 3080's now when I'm
> building a board that requires one.  For new stuff I am laying out I'm
> actually trying to go all discreet where possible.  4 transistors = 1 3080
> in some cases :-)  I think there was a thread a while back about building a
> discrete OTA, if not then I saw it in one of the many books I've gotten
> recently ( I thought it was Walt Jungs latest, but its not ).

Making your own OTA is not trivial. You could make a VCA with an
opamp and three transistors... (two of which should be well matched.

A decent OTA would require many matched pairs... not easy to do
in discrete.

Otoh, maybe I should but transistor pairs from you if you have that
many, that well matched. one thing you can say for the IC process...
the transistors may all ~suck~ but at least they suck in very very
similar ways on the same silicon...

H^) harry


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan  3 02:48:35 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:48:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
		 <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
		 <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
		 <5.2.1.1.2.20060101182450.00b6c878@pop.west.cox.net>
		 <006501c60f4a$c4c9e4c0$9705f504@default>
		 <17035a3d0601011913w5ede4c11s692240a8a7372eee@mail.gmail.com>
		 <17035a3d0601011915w74dfe816x2400722f50a9adc3@mail.gmail.com> <a6fac3a00601012136h113a1fb4l2505ea9f0012778e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43B9D7F3.91429B07@prodigy.net>

Maybe.  They are all similar, unless 'protoboard' means
solderless breadboard.

Some of these boards have copper foil patterns, some do not.

I use vectorbaord with NO copper on it, hust holes. You'd
need to get into the actual part numbers or description
for each.

In most cases, these terms imply 'generic' prototyping
boards, without and special bias toward a specific goal

(except maybe something like XT prototype board which would
have ISA edge connector and maybe the bus interface already there)

H^) harry

megaohm wrote:
> 
> Are perfboards, veroboards, protoboards and through-hole boards all
> different names for the same thing?
> 
> peng


From miah_more at mac.com  Tue Jan  3 02:56:21 2006
From: miah_more at mac.com (miah more)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:56:21 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <0ABE10DD-9BBF-4195-AA08-D495D26AF951@mac.com>

unsubscribe synth-diy
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From rdrake at data2action.com  Tue Jan  3 03:16:58 2006
From: rdrake at data2action.com (rdrake)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 21:16:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] =?US-ASCII?B?UkU6IFJlOiBbc2RpeV0gT3ZlcmRyaXZpbmcgNDA2OVVC?=
Message-ID: <200601030216.k032GwhV058964@mmm1113.verio-web.com>

Ren? Schmitz has a VCO based on the 4069 (http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/vco4069.html); he mentions that the chip runs hot at 15 volts but apparently doesn't burn up.  I've got 2 running at 12 volts and have never noticed any heat issue at all.

bbob

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: seb at burnit.co.uk
>To: music.maker at gte.net
>Sent: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:09:53
>
>Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
>>>>	  
>>>>
>>>Yeah I did notice it uses a lot of current ..
>about 28mA with no 
>>>signal.  This could be a problem because I plan
>to use the other 3 
>>>buffers for a 2nd channel of distortion.  When
>28mA was measured the 
>>>other 3 inputs were hooked to 0V, so I'd imagine
>it would take more like 
>>>56mA when using all 6 buffers.  This equates to
>840mW at 15V (the 
>>>absolute maximum is dissipation on the datasheet
>is 700mW).
>>>
>>>Any way round this?	A heatsink perhaps?
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>Maybe lower the supply voltage.  +/- 5V ?
>>
>>If you must have 15 volts, I would do this with
>either 2 x 4007 or 2 x
>>4069UB.  I've done linear stuff with a 4069UB, but
>not using all six
>>inverters that way.  I made a dual triangle LFO
>with a 4069UB and it got
>>warm, running at 8V.	Two of the inverters were
>integrators, 4 were used
>>to make two schmitt triggers so not all the amps
>were linear.
>>  
>>
>I'm leaning towards the idea of using 2 x 4069s. 
>I'd prefer to stay at 
>15 volts because that's what power I have available
>(and actually I 
>think even at 10V, using 6 inverters in linear mode
>will be pushing it).
>
>Anyway, I was a bit worried about cross-talk when
>using the same device 
>for 2 channels, so it would also be better from
>this point of view just 
>spend the extra 20p and use 2 :-)
>
>Seb


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  3 04:06:32 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:06:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <200601011913.k01JDlp19855@linux7>
References: <200601011913.k01JDlp19855@linux7>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060102200128.0343a500@mail.earthlink.net>

At 11:13 AM 1/1/06, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:


>As always, your milage may vary.  My SBBs have never failed.

Nor mine.

The only problem I have ever had was developing the 5Pulser waveshaper.  I 
had to ground alternate strips and use the others for the circuit in one 
section.  But this is a very high frequency application.  The final 
stripboard version and the SBB version worked the same as long as output to 
input coupling was carefully avoided.

   Ian 



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  3 04:09:32 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:09:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7>
 <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
 <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net>
 <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <001801c60f04$0d82ce80$9705f504@default>
 <43B82201.A1E3ABF@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060102200718.03438aa0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 12:24 PM 1/1/06, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>On Sun, 1 Jan 2006, harrybissell wrote:
>
>>for heaven's sake... at those prices why not go to Futurlec and
>>buy the CA3280 instead ???
>
>>H^) harry
>
>Have you had good luck with them? I had heard futurlec might be a bit dodgy.

I just got 100 of them and will do some testing as soon as I get caught up 
from vacation time.

BTW, they have 3080's for $.80.  I also bought a few of these.

   Ian 



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  3 04:17:02 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:17:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] More SBB Comments
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011550420.24054@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <200601012003.k01K3wp22718@linux7>
 <43B83CE0.ACC5DDF7@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011550420.24054@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060102201437.0343e360@mail.earthlink.net>

At 01:56 PM 1/1/06, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>Speaking of which, I nailed myself with a soldering iron for the first 
>time a couple of weeks ago while putting together my MOTM 485...
>
>I simply did something stupid - I did something that you really needed 
>three hands for, which I should know better than to try with only two 
>hands - I was holding the soldering iron in my right hand, and holding a 
>pot onto the board with my thumb and index finger on my left hand, and 
>holding the solder with the other fingers on my left hand.
>
>I slipped, got a good inch of the iron across the top of my hand by my 
>thumb. Felt like an idiot, I have no idea what possessed me to try that.
>
>Immediately went and ran cold water over it for a while. It didn't 
>actually look to bad at first - just some flakey white, and didn't hurt 
>much if at all - I mostly couldn't feel it. Maybe the heat obliterated all 
>the nerves or something.
>
>Then the next day came, and then the next day. The nerves apparently 
>started growing back and then I saw how deep the heat had gotten in such a 
>short amount of time...
>
>EWWWWW. OWWWWW.

When that happens, put ice directly on it -- immediately.  (Not that I have 
ever had that happen to me, of course, just something I happen to know.)

   Ian 



From rdd at rddavis.org  Tue Jan  3 04:17:13 2006
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: 2 Jan 2006 22:17:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <43B9D7F3.91429B07@prodigy.net>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com> <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com> <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net> <5.2.1.1.2.20060101182450.00b6c878@pop.west.cox.net> <006501c60f4a$c4c9e4c0$9705f504@default> <17035a3d0601011913w5ede4c11s692240a8a7372eee@mail.gmail.com> <17035a3d0601011915w74dfe816x2400722f50a9adc3@mail.gmail.com> <a6fac3a00601012136h113a1fb4l2505ea9f0012778e@mail.gmail.com> <43B9D7F3.91429B07@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20060103031713.GE10287@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe harrybissell, from writings of Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 08:48:35PM -0500:
> Maybe.  They are all similar, unless 'protoboard' means
> solderless breadboard.
> 
> Some of these boards have copper foil patterns, some do not.
> 
> I use vectorbaord with NO copper on it, hust holes. You'd

That's always been my choice; it used to be easy to find in small
quantities, in varying sizes and at very low prices, but not so
anymore.  Some was good for use with small tube circuits.  US$4 to
US$7, or much more, that some places are charging for a little 3" x 6"
board is ridiculous; it's a form of downright highway robbery that
would make Sargent Bilko envious.

-- 
   R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other animals: an
www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature & her
     Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify such
   Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Tue Jan  3 04:26:23 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:26:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] quality potentiometers?
In-Reply-To: <s3b958dc.027@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
References: <s3b958dc.027@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601022216220.27808@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu>


The pots Paul S. uses in the MOTM kits are incredible. On the MOTM website 
it says they're "Spectrol" or "Bourns." Sealed, and very very smooth. 
Ah... here in the catalog it says "Spectrol Model 149 series."

I'm curious about what pots Buchla uses in the 200e. The SOS reviewer 
(local newsstands don't stock the UK version, just the USA/international 
version, so Part 1 of the review just came out in that version, so I 
finally got to read the review) complained about them being wobbly - but 
that confuses me since Buchla doesn't seem to be the sort to skimp on his 
designs.

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Daniel Araya wrote:

> What type of pots do you prefer for synthmodules?
>
> I'm looking for pot's with:
> good feel
> 1/4" metal shaft
> good mechanical design, maybe metal body
> long life (cermet/conductive plastic)
> not too big
>
> What could I expect to pay for something like this, is 10?/12$ a piece enough?
> Anybody got a good european source?
>
> I tried Omeg ECO pots before, they are cheap and I liked the feel but 
> the shafts were too wobbly, too much plastic.
>
>
> many questions! :)
>
> /Daniel
>
>
>

From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 05:01:21 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 20:01:21 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Finally - the first workings of my own designed sequencer. :)
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601021048xe630862l5ac5f908a08cc6f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b288a70601021048xe630862l5ac5f908a08cc6f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87441170601022001ue0cd57bof4fe69bc2df24a7a@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats! Now get the rest of those stages hooked up and working!

Tim (soldering as we speak... type, actually) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


On 1/2/06, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. <rykhaard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Please do pardon my excitement, but I just had a to quickly burble some of
> my ultra-happiness! :D
>
> I just got my own sequencer design up and running for the first time in my
> 10 years of wanting to build it!  :)
>
> Hearing 2 of it's 4 steps, happily bubbling away in 1V/octave from it's 2
> of 8 hooked up, rotary switches, was absolutely wild! :D  Changing the notes
> of Step 1 and Step 2 (with 3 and 4 being 0.00V with no switches hooked up)
> within the octave that each Rotary is capable of, was absolutely wonderful!
> :D
>
> Finally - after 23 or so years of wanting a sequencer like this (strong
> Tangerine Dream influence), it's started it's 1st walk!  :D
>
> (Small babble of pretty much the same about it, in the Design section, at
> my webpage).  As soon as I have all 8 Rotary switches hooked up (in 4 pairs
> of 2 Rotaries, with a switch between each pair, to select the pitch at each
> step) and I have it's Gate working - I'll start posting wav samples of it,
> at my webpage. :)  Later this week.
>
> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. :D  "Dawn of The Woody V2.00" is alive and well. ;)
> ("Woody" was it's original name in 1995, as I wanted to have it on a wooden
> panel, with wooden knobs.  A minor name tribute to "Dawn of The Dead" and
> the 2nd Dickies album, "Dawn of The Dickies". :) )
>
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
>
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
> 2705 update
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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  3 05:07:51 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:07:51 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Best place to get 3080s?
In-Reply-To: <43B9D62C.DBFFF14D@prodigy.net>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7>
 <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
 <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net>
 <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010238370.23207@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <20060101085711.GO10396@moo.sysabend.org>
 <43B9D62C.DBFFF14D@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060102204303.0343cdd0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 06:41 PM 1/2/06, harrybissell wrote:

>Making your own OTA is not trivial. You could make a VCA with an
>opamp and three transistors... (two of which should be well matched.
>
>A decent OTA would require many matched pairs... not easy to do
>in discrete.

But often you don't actually need a full OTA, since in many applications 
you don't need all the fancy current mirrors.  So, for example, you can 
make a really good VCA with (1) an accurate, symmetric Wilson mirror made 
from a MAT03 and a pair of 2N3906's, (2) a differential input pair from a 
MAT02 and (3) an opamp differential I/V converter fed from the MAT02 
collectors. Not cheap, but not difficult, either.

For filter (etc.) applications you can just feed one collector into an 
opamp integrator.  See the old Charlie Thompson designs in EN#62(12).

>Otoh, maybe I should but transistor pairs from you if you have that
>many, that well matched. one thing you can say for the IC process...
>the transistors may all ~suck~ but at least they suck in very very
>similar ways on the same silicon...

Well, similar, but often not similar enough.  For best performance you have 
to deselect OTA chips with large offset variations.

My recent research on this question showed that the cost comes out about 
the same using the MAT's or selecting well matched (<50 uV) monolithic 
pairs or selecting OTA's for low offset variation.

   Ian




>H^) harry



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  3 05:10:37 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:10:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <20060103031713.GE10287@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
References: <dc5946590512311717w382341d7m64db2cd652956ec7@mail.gmail.com>
 <b6b288a70601010010o64e9c21l129b05ca2e637c0d@mail.gmail.com>
 <43B8217B.5E7B4BC1@prodigy.net>
 <5.2.1.1.2.20060101182450.00b6c878@pop.west.cox.net>
 <006501c60f4a$c4c9e4c0$9705f504@default>
 <17035a3d0601011913w5ede4c11s692240a8a7372eee@mail.gmail.com>
 <17035a3d0601011915w74dfe816x2400722f50a9adc3@mail.gmail.com>
 <a6fac3a00601012136h113a1fb4l2505ea9f0012778e@mail.gmail.com>
 <43B9D7F3.91429B07@prodigy.net>
 <20060103031713.GE10287@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060102210918.03458150@mail.earthlink.net>

At 08:17 PM 1/2/06, R. D. Davis wrote:

>That's always been my choice; it used to be easy to find in small
>quantities, in varying sizes and at very low prices, but not so
>anymore.  Some was good for use with small tube circuits.  US$4 to
>US$7, or much more, that some places are charging for a little 3" x 6"
>board is ridiculous; it's a form of downright highway robbery that
>would make Sargent Bilko envious.

I like the ratshack pad-per-hole boards.  Still not expensive.

   Ian 



From patchell at cox.net  Tue Jan  3 05:21:56 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:21:56 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] quality potentiometers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601022216220.27808@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <s3b958dc.027@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
 <s3b958dc.027@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060102201504.00b9f908@pop.west.cox.net>

I use the same pots (Model 149) in my "premium" projects.  The are very 
pricey...about 8 times the cost of my second choice pots, which are the 
Alpha pots you can get from Mouser.  Believe it or not, they work pretty 
darn good for the 87 cents you pay for them in 100s.  But like I said...I 
use the Model 149 in my premium projects....

http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodulesII/closeback.jpg

You can sort of see the pots in this close up...^^^^^


And a photo of the front...

http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodulesII/frontpanel.jpg


At 10:26 PM 1/2/2006 -0500, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>The pots Paul S. uses in the MOTM kits are incredible. On the MOTM website 
>it says they're "Spectrol" or "Bourns." Sealed, and very very smooth. 
>Ah... here in the catalog it says "Spectrol Model 149 series."
>
>I'm curious about what pots Buchla uses in the 200e. The SOS reviewer 
>(local newsstands don't stock the UK version, just the USA/international 
>version, so Part 1 of the review just came out in that version, so I 
>finally got to read the review) complained about them being wobbly - but 
>that confuses me since Buchla doesn't seem to be the sort to skimp on his 
>designs.
>
>On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Daniel Araya wrote:
>
>>What type of pots do you prefer for synthmodules?
>>
>>I'm looking for pot's with:
>>good feel
>>1/4" metal shaft
>>good mechanical design, maybe metal body
>>long life (cermet/conductive plastic)
>>not too big
>>
>>What could I expect to pay for something like this, is 10?/12$ a piece 
>>enough?
>>Anybody got a good european source?
>>
>>I tried Omeg ECO pots before, they are cheap and I liked the feel but the 
>>shafts were too wobbly, too much plastic.
>>
>>
>>many questions! :)
>>
>>/Daniel
>>
>>
>
>         -Jim
>***************************************************************
>http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell
>
>***************************************************************





From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Tue Jan  3 06:54:35 2006
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 06:54:35 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] d/a, voltage references & multiplexing  considerations
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.61.0601021331030.420346@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20060103055435.85731.qmail@web26209.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Antti,

*snip* 
> You'll also need stable jitter-free master clock.
> Unfortunately I have no 
> idea how good your typical run of the mill crystal
> oscillator circuit is 
> going to be at that.

I was thinking about using the clock out from a PIC,
should be stable enough i guess...? 

> > and circuits for that. Also i'm thinking that
> since it supports 16x 
> > oversample i could multiplex it into a number of
> outs using sample and 
> > holds, is this a bad idea?  Also, i'm a little
> confused as how to wire
> 
> This will be tricky. You will have phase offset
> between the channels and 
> your sample & hold must be linear enough (100dB THD
> is not easy), fast 
> enough and low feedthrough enough. I wouldn't do
> this.

sorry, could you elaborate on the phase offset? i
didn't really get that...

> 
> > the 1861 for voltage out, the only thing i found
> on the net was someone 
> > hooking up Iout to SJ and RF to Vout and then tie
> both together with a 
> > cap of mysterious value.
> 
> The datasheet shows internal Rf between the pins, so
> a capacitor would act 
> as simple lowpass filter (possibly needed for
> compensation too).

problem is it doesn't say what value Rf has...

> Antti - By no means an expert in AD/DA but has read
> lots about what can go 
> wrong there

thanks!!

Karl


From afas00 at bigpond.net.au  Tue Jan  3 09:50:19 2006
From: afas00 at bigpond.net.au (geoff james)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:50:19 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] KORG   MS03
Message-ID: <000f01c61042$ba2d3a50$0100000a@geoffos1b9gcux>

for those interested i have the above for sale on ebay.
Item #  7379449058.
regards
geoff james
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From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Tue Jan  3 10:26:09 2006
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 11:26:09 +0200 (EET)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] d/a, voltage references & multiplexing  considerations
In-Reply-To: <20060103055435.85731.qmail@web26209.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060103055435.85731.qmail@web26209.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.61.0601031113410.422212@kosh.hut.fi>

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Karl Ekdahl wrote:

> I was thinking about using the clock out from a PIC,
> should be stable enough i guess...?

I wouldn't blindly trust any such internal oscillator circuit. IIRC, the 
jitter should be max tens of picoseconds. Safe bet would be to use 
dedicated low jitter crystal oscillator module which several companies 
make. No idea where to actually buy one though.

> sorry, could you elaborate on the phase offset? i
> didn't really get that...

Basically it means that if you're feeding the same signal to both 
channels, one will always be slightly ahead of other leading to high 
frequency loss if the signals are ever mixed together.

How are you going to feed the DAC?
If you're not using oversampling, you should implement a high freq 
emphasis filter to cancel the effect of the "zero-order hold" at the 
output (basically the output attenuates the spectrum -3 dB at nyquist as 
the output is not impulse train but instead a step function).

> problem is it doesn't say what value Rf has...

Current output configuration output impedance is listed as 1.7 kohm and 
output current as +-1 mA. Combining these with facts from voltage output 
config (+-3 V) implies that Rf should be 3 kohm.
For voltage output config you'd connect Iout and SJ together and Rf and 
Vout together and place a cap from Vout to SJ.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From daniel.araya at sr.se  Tue Jan  3 10:38:24 2006
From: daniel.araya at sr.se (Daniel Araya)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 10:38:24 +0100
Subject: Sv: Re: [sdiy] quality potentiometers?
Message-ID: <s3ba5436.030@rhcl03n02.sr.se>

>>> Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> 2006-01-03 04:26:23 >>>

>The pots Paul S. uses in the MOTM kits are incredible. On the MOTM
website 
>it says they're "Spectrol" or "Bourns." Sealed, and very very smooth.

>Ah... here in the catalog it says "Spectrol Model 149 series."

Ok, thanks!

>I'm curious about what pots Buchla uses in the 200e. The SOS reviewer

>(local newsstands don't stock the UK version, just the
USA/international 
>version, so Part 1 of the review just came out in that version, so I 
>finally got to read the review) complained about them being wobbly -
but 
>that confuses me since Buchla doesn't seem to be the sort to skimp on
his 
>designs.

I don't know about the 200e but some of the newer Buchla 200 modules
uses pretty crappy plastic shaft carbon potentiometers.
The older ones i've seen has better quality pots.

Any other preferred pots except the spectrol 149?

/d


From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Jan  3 13:05:09 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 05:05:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
Message-ID: <200601031305.k03D59p27961@linux7>

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>Ren?? Schmitz wrote:
>
>> Hi Bbob,
>>
>> rdrake wrote:
>>
>>> Ren?? Schmitz has a VCO based on the 4069 
>>> (http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/vco4069.html); he mentions that the 
>>> chip runs hot at 15 volts but apparently doesn't burn up.  I've got 2 
>>> running at 12 volts and have never noticed any heat issue at all.
>>
>>
>> It gets a little warm, but here only two gates are used in the linear 
>> mode.
>> But I use 3 gates with my threephase LFO also @15V, and this seems to 
>> work fine also.
>>
>For this at least the datasheet gives a useful spec.  The absolute max 
>power dissipation for a DIP package is 700mW.  So measure the VDD 
>current drawn (with no signal - worst case for linear mode use), and 
>mutiple by VDD.  In my case, using 3 gates in linear mode drew 28mA at 
>15V (=420mW) and ran warm to touch (but not painful!)

My personal opinion is that this (about half the package dissipation) is
the maximum that _I_ would go.  Your milage may vary...

I'm thinking of trying the Happy Harry idea of just plain old 5 volts. 
You'd drop the current to 1/3 (hence the power dissipation would also drop
to 1/3) and then you could probably run both distortion circuits from one
package.

LM324 works down to 3 volts.  I have only TI datasheets for TL0x opamps,
and they don't give a minimum supply voltage.



---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan  3 13:44:08 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 12:44:08 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <43BA7658.3000201@uni-bonn.de>
References: <200601030216.k032GwhV058964@mmm1113.verio-web.com> <43BA7658.3000201@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <43BA7198.30308@burnit.co.uk>

Ren? Schmitz wrote:

> Hi Bbob,
>
> rdrake wrote:
>
>> Ren? Schmitz has a VCO based on the 4069 
>> (http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/vco4069.html); he mentions that the 
>> chip runs hot at 15 volts but apparently doesn't burn up.  I've got 2 
>> running at 12 volts and have never noticed any heat issue at all.
>
>
> It gets a little warm, but here only two gates are used in the linear 
> mode.
> But I use 3 gates with my threephase LFO also @15V, and this seems to 
> work fine also.
>
For this at least the datasheet gives a useful spec.  The absolute max 
power dissipation for a DIP package is 700mW.  So measure the VDD 
current drawn (with no signal - worst case for linear mode use), and 
mutiple by VDD.  In my case, using 3 gates in linear mode drew 28mA at 
15V (=420mW) and ran warm to touch (but not painful!)

Seb




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Tue Jan  3 14:04:24 2006
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?UTF-8?B?UmVuw6kgU2NobWl0eg==?=)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 14:04:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <200601030216.k032GwhV058964@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
References: <200601030216.k032GwhV058964@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <43BA7658.3000201@uni-bonn.de>

Hi Bbob,

rdrake wrote:
> Ren? Schmitz has a VCO based on the 4069 (http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/vco4069.html); he mentions that the chip runs hot at 15 volts but apparently doesn't burn up.  I've got 2 running at 12 volts and have never noticed any heat issue at all.

It gets a little warm, but here only two gates are used in the linear mode.
But I use 3 gates with my threephase LFO also @15V, and this seems to 
work fine also.


Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue Jan  3 14:15:47 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:15:47 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
References: <200601030216.k032GwhV058964@mmm1113.verio-web.com> <43BA7658.3000201@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <005f01c61067$d0080420$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

On the more general question of distortion stages in
series, is there any opinion on how many stages there
should be, and how much distortion there should be
per stage? Is it not worth having more than 3 stages, 
for example?
And what do the mathematicians think?

paul perry melb australia


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan  3 14:39:50 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 13:39:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
In-Reply-To: <005f01c61067$d0080420$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
References: <200601030216.k032GwhV058964@mmm1113.verio-web.com> <43BA7658.3000201@uni-bonn.de> <005f01c61067$d0080420$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <43BA7EA6.8040109@burnit.co.uk>

I think the problem with having more stages of 4069s would be excessive 
noise.  Maths aside, from an aural point of view I think 3 stages is 
enough.  If you want to, you can increase distortion further by 
decreasing feedback at each stage.  And the sound can be made 'harder' 
by adding some clipping (e.g. overdriving the input so the protection 
diodes clip).

Seb


Paul Perry wrote:

>On the more general question of distortion stages in
>series, is there any opinion on how many stages there
>should be, and how much distortion there should be
>per stage? Is it not worth having more than 3 stages, 
>for example?
>And what do the mathematicians think?
>
>paul perry melb australia
>
>
>  
>



From HA.Synth at t-online.de  Tue Jan  3 17:14:32 2006
From: HA.Synth at t-online.de (HA.Synth at t-online.de)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 17:14:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020225550.24859@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020225550.24859@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <200601031714.32864.HA.Synth@t-online.de>

May be you want to look at TL05x instead of TL07x, TL08x.

HA


Am Montag 02 Januar 2006 08:34 schrieb Aaron Lanterman:
> I originally put this together for my student's (and my) use, but I'm sure
> others will find it useful as well:
>
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/
>
> (Jim, you'll see why I asked that question)
>
> Are all my op amp bases covered? I have LM324/LM358 for single supply CV
> (is there a single version?), TL07x/TL08x for audio, NE553x for super
> duper audio... To design synths, are there any other op amp types a
> designer should be sure to have on hand?
>
> When can one get away with a TL08x instead of a TL07x - or to just phrase
> the question another way, when is it not worth replacing a TL08x with a
> TL007x?
>
> - Aaron
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>
> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> Mail Code 0250                         Web:   
> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma Atlanta, GA 30332                     
> Office: GCATT 334B


From Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com  Tue Jan  3 17:36:42 2006
From: Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com (Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 17:36:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <200601031714.32864.HA.Synth@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <FEFBF55D5DB1534C937E060E9C74E05F020ED896@buebe101.NOE.Nokia.com>


TL05x has improved DC (offset) performance and minor slew rate improvement but nothing else (noise might worst)

and the price-performance ratio is not so good as TL07x, TL08x 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
>[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] 
>Sent: 2006. janu?r 3. 17:15
>To: Aaron Lanterman
>Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
>
>May be you want to look at TL05x instead of TL07x, TL08x.
>
>HA
>
>
>Am Montag 02 Januar 2006 08:34 schrieb Aaron Lanterman:
>> I originally put this together for my student's (and my) 
>use, but I'm 
>> sure others will find it useful as well:
>>
>> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/
>>
>> (Jim, you'll see why I asked that question)
>>
>> Are all my op amp bases covered? I have LM324/LM358 for 
>single supply 
>> CV (is there a single version?), TL07x/TL08x for audio, NE553x for 
>> super duper audio... To design synths, are there any other op amp 
>> types a designer should be sure to have on hand?
>>
>> When can one get away with a TL08x instead of a TL07x - or to just 
>> phrase the question another way, when is it not worth replacing a 
>> TL08x with a TL007x?
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>> 
>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>---------
>>----
>>--
>>
>> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
>> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
>> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: 
>lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
>> Mail Code 0250                         Web:   
>> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma Atlanta, GA 30332                     
>> Office: GCATT 334B
>



From daugard at sprintmail.com  Tue Jan  3 17:54:59 2006
From: daugard at sprintmail.com (Tim Daugard)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:54:59 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
References: <200601030216.k032GwhV058964@mmm1113.verio-web.com> <43BA7658.3000201@uni-bonn.de> <005f01c61067$d0080420$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <000a01c61086$6fb91360$82c2fea9@tim3>

>from Paul Perry

> On the more general question of distortion stages in
> series, is there any opinion on how many stages there
> should be, and how much distortion there should be
> per stage? Is it not worth having more than 3 stages,
> for example?

For anything other than a true hard distortion, i.e. so much gain that
you can never get anything but a square wave, one stage should be
enough. We're discussing 4049 distortion where some of the stages were
used as gain stages to get the signal large enough to distort. It was
an interesting idea for the time.

The stompbox cookbook has a a design with 4 stages of 324 gain. It's
designed to take advantage of the crossover distortion of the 324.

I have on my list of things to try, a dual distortion module using to
sets of 3 stages of 4049. I also want to build a four stage opamp
distortion with a socket so I can test varios ICs.

If I'm going to use more than one stage of distrtion, I put someting
between the stages - filters, mixers with some of the orginal signal
added, subtracted, filtered. If you start with a hot signal one stage
is enough.

> And what do the mathematicians think?

I don't know, I'm a technican, when I took all my math classes, the
teachers thought entirely different. I took linear algebra and the
later statistics. The statistics (math) teacher said I had to use a 50
step algorithim to solve a statistics proble instead of a 4 or 5 step
matrix transform.

Tim Daugard
AG4GZ 30.4078N 86.6227W Alt: 12 feet above MSL
http://home.sprintmail.com/~daugard/synth.htm




From daugard at sprintmail.com  Tue Jan  3 17:57:41 2006
From: daugard at sprintmail.com (Tim Daugard)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:57:41 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
References: <200601031305.k03D59p27961@linux7>
Message-ID: <001001c61086$d05dad20$82c2fea9@tim3>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Gravenhorst" <music.maker at gte.net>

> My personal opinion is that this (about half the package
dissipation) is
> the maximum that _I_ would go.  Your milage may vary...
>
> I'm thinking of trying the Happy Harry idea of just plain old 5
volts.
> You'd drop the current to 1/3 (hence the power dissipation would
also drop
> to 1/3) and then you could probably run both distortion circuits
from one
> package.

Wouldn't be about 1/9? We're talking I*I*R for internal dissipation.


Tim Daugard
AG4GZ 30.4078N 86.6227W Alt: 12 feet above MSL
http://home.sprintmail.com/~daugard/synth.htm




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan  3 18:22:10 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:22:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <200601031714.32864.HA.Synth@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <20060103172211.78393.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com>

The NE5517 would be better called a cross for the
  LM13600, because the buffer bias is variable like the
  13600 (not fixed like 13700).  It HAS a different connection...
  there is a current mirror stage between the Gm bias and the
  output buffer.
  
  The LM13600 IS obsolete but there is a cross..
  NJM13600 (New Japan Radio)
  
  2SC3381 has seven pins, separate emitters unlike the
  2SC1583 (common emitter pin). So you can use the
  2SC3381 in applications like (Moog) Ladder Filter rungs, 
  as well as expo conversion.
  
  LM324, 358 'may' run on a bipolar supply but not recommended.
  There is crossover distortion if you do (input level independant, at
  the zero cross). I'd list these as "single supply" preferred.
  
  I believe that On Semi (iirc) is second sourcing the NE5517, 5517A
  now. It is in production. Phillips fab for that part burned down :^(
  
  I'll keep reviewing the list... tahnks for the good info
  
  H^) harry

HA.Synth at t-online.de wrote:  May be you want to look at TL05x instead of TL07x, TL08x.

HA


Am Montag 02 Januar 2006 08:34 schrieb Aaron Lanterman:
> I originally put this together for my student's (and my) use, but I'm sure
> others will find it useful as well:
>
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/
>
> (Jim, you'll see why I asked that question)
>
> Are all my op amp bases covered? I have LM324/LM358 for single supply CV
> (is there a single version?), TL07x/TL08x for audio, NE553x for super
> duper audio... To design synths, are there any other op amp types a
> designer should be sure to have on hand?
>
> When can one get away with a TL08x instead of a TL07x - or to just phrase
> the question another way, when is it not worth replacing a TL08x with a
> TL007x?
>
> - Aaron
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>
> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> Mail Code 0250                         Web:   
> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma Atlanta, GA 30332                     
> Office: GCATT 334B


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From switchbladekey at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 19:03:38 2006
From: switchbladekey at gmail.com (S. P. W. )
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:03:38 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Oberheim Matrix 6 intermittent problem
In-Reply-To: <87441170512280846h43eabe1cu454fab91000315a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7dde4aac0512280814h2d5391fak692bc3b629c81352@mail.gmail.com>
	 <87441170512280846h43eabe1cu454fab91000315a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7dde4aac0601031003q3ce43f1ak1898c754336cf040@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/28/05, Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey SPW,
>
> I have an M6 that does the same thing (or did). It turned out to be an
> intermittent connection in the power supply. I would suggest reseating all
> the power supply connections.... I would also suggest reseating the CEM
> voice chips AND all the board to board connections.

I did all of that, and think it did help. The voices sounded louder,
clearer and more in tune. It hasn't glitched since then, but I also
subsequently majorly upgraded capacitors. A couple of the ones on
there looked anemic. I'll post pictures when I'm done, I have a couple
more to replace. The local elex company didn't have what I wanted in
stock.

> If you found a flashlight battery for memory hold... that might BE
> my old Matrix 6 you have :^P

Nope, has the stock battery. This one came from Indianapolis by way of
a Lawyer that came here for law school and stayed.

I had done the power on reset numerous times with no effect, so that
likely wasn't it... but definitely a good tip! I think the
mondo-capacitors will do the trick, at least I hope so. If not, I am
going to get a tiny UPS for performance. It hasn't glitched once since
I upgraded half of them, so this might be a good band-aid...If it
continues to work I'll post what all I did & give a Mouser BOM.

On another note, anyone have any tips on getting the foot pedal to
work right? I went and bought a nice yamaha one and can't seem to do
anything but screw up patches trying to get it to work.

take care,

Jester

P.S. I am delving into midi, if there are any gotchas with the M-6 i'd
love to hear them.



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 19:42:30 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:42:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Triggering problems with sequencer. Any thoughts?
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601031042x28b202d6mad7dedba8e824086@mail.gmail.com>

Help! :(

I've successfully got my 4 steps working, with a single 12 position (1
octave) rotary switch on each step.

I'm now trying to derive a Gate or Trigger FROM each step when it occurs.
The best I've been able to do, is get a Trigger out to one of my envelope
generators, when there's a larger than smaller transistion, between voltages
from the Control Voltage out summer.  (Summing all of the rotary switch
outputs to a single CV out, which itself is working perfectly.)

As an example - say that I have the 4 notes set on the rotary switches to:

C1 (lowest pitch)
C2 (highest pitch)
E1 (2nd lowest pitch)
B1 (2nd highest pitch)

I'm only getting Triggers, from the Highest and 2nd Highest pitch, due to
the difference in voltage out of the CV summer.

I've tried the following combinations on the comparator, that is setup with
the following resistor divider on it's negative input:

- +15V through 1M8 to negative input
- Negative input through 15K to Ground

On the positive input of the comparator, I've tried:

- CV Out through 0.1uF to positive input; 1M to ground
- CV Out through 0.1uF to positive input; 2M to ground
- CV Out through 0.001uF to positive input; 1M to ground
- CV Out through 0.01uF to positive input; 1M to ground
- CV Out through 0.01uF to positive input; 200K to ground

Almost all of them gave me the above description.  The worst (0.1 / 1M) gave
me a Trigger on only the very highest voltage.

What can I do, to get a new trigger, from every single step?  (All steps are
coming from the 4051 1:8 multiplexer.)  Would I have to have a separate
4051, generating a Gate/Trigger, each time?  (That's my thoughts, now.
Which could be handy for more effects. :) )

Thanks for any help. :)  At least 1 wav file'll be up at my webpage, as soon
as I get a Gate or Trigger functioning properly. :)  (Then I'll get the 2nd
rotary for each step done as well, so that I can alternate between each
pair, on each step. :D )

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Dec
2705 update
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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  3 20:03:32 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 12:03:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <FEFBF55D5DB1534C937E060E9C74E05F020ED896@buebe101.NOE.Noki
 a.com>
References: <200601031714.32864.HA.Synth@t-online.de>
 <FEFBF55D5DB1534C937E060E9C74E05F020ED896@buebe101.NOE.Nokia.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060103115928.0345cab0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 09:36 AM 1/3/06, Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com wrote:

>TL05x has improved DC (offset) performance and minor slew rate improvement 
>but nothing else (noise might worst)
>
>and the price-performance ratio is not so good as TL07x, TL08x

Yeah, I looked at the TL05x and came to the same conclusion.  I use TL07x 
for general purpose and when I need something better I find a chip that 
does a good job for the particular application, e.g. OPA2227 for low offset 
or OPA2234 for fast slew and pretty good offset and bias current.

   Ian  



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  3 20:22:05 2006
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 14:22:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Triggering problems with sequencer. Any thoughts?
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601031042x28b202d6mad7dedba8e824086@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b288a70601031042x28b202d6mad7dedba8e824086@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43BACEDD.9090001@earthlink.net>

mult the trigger from the input?





Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
> Help! :(
> 
> I've successfully got my 4 steps working, with a single 12 position (1 
> octave) rotary switch on each step.
> 
> I'm now trying to derive a Gate or Trigger FROM each step when it 
> occurs.  The best I've been able to do, is get a Trigger out to one of 
> my envelope generators, when there's a larger than smaller transistion, 
> between voltages from the Control Voltage out summer.  (Summing all of 
> the rotary switch outputs to a single CV out, which itself is working 
> perfectly.)
> 
> As an example - say that I have the 4 notes set on the rotary switches to:
> 
> C1 (lowest pitch)
> C2 (highest pitch)
> E1 (2nd lowest pitch)
> B1 (2nd highest pitch)
> 
> I'm only getting Triggers, from the Highest and 2nd Highest pitch, due 
> to the difference in voltage out of the CV summer.
> 
> I've tried the following combinations on the comparator, that is setup 
> with the following resistor divider on it's negative input:
> 
> - +15V through 1M8 to negative input
> - Negative input through 15K to Ground
> 
> On the positive input of the comparator, I've tried:
> 
> - CV Out through 0.1uF to positive input; 1M to ground
> - CV Out through 0.1uF to positive input; 2M to ground
> - CV Out through 0.001uF to positive input; 1M to ground
> - CV Out through 0.01uF to positive input; 1M to ground
> - CV Out through 0.01uF to positive input; 200K to ground
> 
> Almost all of them gave me the above description.  The worst (0.1 / 1M) 
> gave me a Trigger on only the very highest voltage.
> 
> What can I do, to get a new trigger, from every single step?  (All steps 
> are coming from the 4051 1:8 multiplexer.)  Would I have to have a 
> separate 4051, generating a Gate/Trigger, each time?  (That's my 
> thoughts, now.  Which could be handy for more effects. :) )
> 
> Thanks for any help. :)  At least 1 wav file'll be up at my webpage, as 
> soon as I get a Gate or Trigger functioning properly. :)  (Then I'll get 
> the 2nd rotary for each step done as well, so that I can alternate 
> between each pair, on each step. :D )
> 
> -- 
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
> 
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - 
> Dec 2705 update


From patchell at cox.net  Tue Jan  3 20:43:36 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:43:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <20060103172211.78393.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200601031714.32864.HA.Synth@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060103114014.00b6dfd8@pop.west.cox.net>

The crossover distortion can easily be solved...if need be...by tying a 10K 
resistor from the output to the negative supply rail (for +/- 15 volt 
supplies)...sort of a hassle...but it is a solution if you must get rid of 
it and want to use the LM324.  Even in single supply mode, you will still 
get the crossover notch at the VCC/2 point.


>LM324, 358 'may' run on a bipolar supply but not recommended.
>There is crossover distortion if you do (input level independant, at
>the zero cross). I'd list these as "single supply" preferred.
>
>
>H^) harry
>
>HA.Synth at t-online.de wrote:
>>May be you want to look at TL05x instead of TL07x, TL08x.
>>
>>HA
>>
>>
>>Am Montag 02 Januar 2006 08:34 schrieb Aaron Lanterman:
>> > I originally put this together for my student's (and my) use, but I'm sure
>> > others will find it useful as well:
>> >
>> > http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/
>> >
>> > (Jim, you'll see why I asked that question)
>> >
>> > Are all my op amp bases covered? I have LM324/LM358 for single supply CV
>> > (is there a single version?), TL07x/TL08x for audio, NE553x for super
>> > duper audio... To design synths, are there any other op amp types a
>> > designer should be sure to have on hand?
>> >
>> > When can one get away with a TL08x instead of a TL07x - or to just phrase
>> > the question another way, when is it not worth replacing a TL08x with a
>> > TL007x?
>> >
>> > - Aaron
>> >
>> > 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >--
>> >
>> > Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof. Voice: 404-385-2548
>> > School of Electrical and Comp. Eng. Fax: 404-894-8363
>> > Georgia Institute of Technology E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
>> > Mail Code 0250 Web:
>> > users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma Atlanta, GA 30332
>> > Office: GCATT 334B

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************




From seancostello2003 at comcast.net  Tue Jan  3 21:00:08 2006
From: seancostello2003 at comcast.net (Sean Costello)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:00:08 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB
References: <200601030216.k032GwhV058964@mmm1113.verio-web.com> <43BA7658.3000201@uni-bonn.de> <005f01c61067$d0080420$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <003601c610a0$4cf2cc30$0200a8c0@analognuf38wu4>

Depends on the sound you want. I am pretty sure that modern Soldano-derived
tube amps have more than 3 stages of distortion - this would include Peavey
5150 and XXX, Mesa Boogie Single/Dual/Triple Rectifier, and the like. On the
other hand, you might consider some of these stages to be 1/2 stage, as the
preamp tubes will have asymmetrical clipping for the waveform, followed by
inversion, so it would take 2 stages to obtain symmetrical distortion. The
asymmetrical distortion/inversion will result in different time-variant
behavior, though.

A Big Muff has 2 distortion stages, which is rather unusual in fuzz boxes,
and it has a nice smooth sound. If you consider a Big Muff as used with a
tube amp, you probably have 4 or more stages (not much preamp distortion,
but some phase inverter distortion, and power tube distortion). For a Big
Muff to sound good, though, you want a fairly clean amp.

The Way Huge Red Llama used a 4049UBE for distortion, and only used 2 of the
6 inverters.

Personally, I think 3 stages of distortion is enough. It might be possible
to obtain very smooth sustained distortions with higher numbers of cascaded
stages of distortion, assuming low levels of distortion per stage, filtering
in each stage, and perhaps asymmetric distortion in some stages. My guess is
that this is used for both modern heavy metal amps (see above), as well as
getting certain super-smooth lead sounds typified by LA studio musicians.
However, the noise level will go up for analog systems, and the cost will go
up for digital systems.

Just my $0.01. Most of the above is my gut intuition, so I took off a penny.

Sean Costello

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Perry" <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] RE: Re: [sdiy] Overdriving 4069UB


> On the more general question of distortion stages in
> series, is there any opinion on how many stages there
> should be, and how much distortion there should be
> per stage? Is it not worth having more than 3 stages,
> for example?
> And what do the mathematicians think?
>
> paul perry melb australia



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan  3 22:04:59 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:04:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Triggering problems with sequencer. Any thoughts?
In-Reply-To: <43BACEDD.9090001@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20060103210459.27025.qmail@web51008.mail.yahoo.com>

The trigger should be generated from the edge of the clock that advances
  the counter...  
  
  Some designs have a trigger that is generated with a switch on each
  output, so you can choose to trigger, or not... on each step.
  
  Any of the above is fairly easy...
  
  H^) harry

mark verbos <mverbos at earthlink.net> wrote:  mult the trigger from the input?





Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
> Help! :(
> 
> I've successfully got my 4 steps working, with a single 12 position (1 
> octave) rotary switch on each step.
> 
> I'm now trying to derive a Gate or Trigger FROM each step when it 
> occurs.  The best I've been able to do, is get a Trigger out to one of 
> my envelope generators, when there's a larger than smaller transistion, 
> between voltages from the Control Voltage out summer.  (Summing all of 
> the rotary switch outputs to a single CV out, which itself is working 
> perfectly.)
> 
> As an example - say that I have the 4 notes set on the rotary switches to:
> 
> C1 (lowest pitch)
> C2 (highest pitch)
> E1 (2nd lowest pitch)
> B1 (2nd highest pitch)
> 
> I'm only getting Triggers, from the Highest and 2nd Highest pitch, due 
> to the difference in voltage out of the CV summer.
> 
> I've tried the following combinations on the comparator, that is setup 
> with the following resistor divider on it's negative input:
> 
> - +15V through 1M8 to negative input
> - Negative input through 15K to Ground
> 
> On the positive input of the comparator, I've tried:
> 
> - CV Out through 0.1uF to positive input; 1M to ground
> - CV Out through 0.1uF to positive input; 2M to ground
> - CV Out through 0.001uF to positive input; 1M to ground
> - CV Out through 0.01uF to positive input; 1M to ground
> - CV Out through 0.01uF to positive input; 200K to ground
> 
> Almost all of them gave me the above description.  The worst (0.1 / 1M) 
> gave me a Trigger on only the very highest voltage.
> 
> What can I do, to get a new trigger, from every single step?  (All steps 
> are coming from the 4051 1:8 multiplexer.)  Would I have to have a 
> separate 4051, generating a Gate/Trigger, each time?  (That's my 
> thoughts, now.  Which could be handy for more effects. :) )
> 
> Thanks for any help. :)  At least 1 wav file'll be up at my webpage, as 
> soon as I get a Gate or Trigger functioning properly. :)  (Then I'll get 
> the 2nd rotary for each step done as well, so that I can alternate 
> between each pair, on each step. :D )
> 
> -- 
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
> 
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - 
> Dec 2705 update


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From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Jan  3 22:10:26 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:10:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] quality potentiometers?
References: <s3ba5436.030@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
Message-ID: <06e101c610aa$1e7b4e40$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

> Any other preferred pots except the spectrol 149?

Well, MOTM uses Spectrol *and* Bourns, depending on the application. (Paul
S. has expounded on this.)

Part numbers are at Hot Rod MOTM:
    http://www.hotrodmotm.com/parts_list.htm
--
john



From rob at emulatorarchive.com  Tue Jan  3 23:26:38 2006
From: rob at emulatorarchive.com (Rob Keeble)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 22:26:38 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] quality potentiometers?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20060102201504.00b9f908@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNOELKLIAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>

Hi
Only 2 choices..

Bourns 91A High price, but reduces at 50+ volume. Loose feel but actually
very nice. Electrical accuracy is not cool but I have never had a bad 'un. I
fell out with these because they are such a soft touch, but I now rate them
as the best. They are high quality, they'll last 25 years. Good enough for
E-mu Systems...

Spectrol 148/248/149/249. Medium price. Tight feel, easy to set accurate
values. Electrical accuracy very good, but 1 in 10 are duff. Wrong
resistance 80k rather than 100k or have a rough spot. But they do have 1/8"
shafts too.

Nothing else counts. Don't compromise, the pot is THE control surface
priority.

Regards
Rob





From synthbaron at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Jan  4 00:22:28 2006
From: synthbaron at tampabay.rr.com (SB)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 18:22:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] quality potentiometers?
In-Reply-To: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNOELKLIAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>
References: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNOELKLIAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>
Message-ID: <43BB0734.8000409@tampabay.rr.com>

Rob Keeble wrote:

 > Spectrol 148/248/149/249. Medium price. Tight feel, easy to set accurate
 > values. Electrical accuracy very good, but 1 in 10 are duff. Wrong
 > resistance 80k rather than 100k or have a rough spot.

Or feel like they have sand in them.





From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Wed Jan  4 00:29:13 2006
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 00:29:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] quality potentiometers?
In-Reply-To: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNOELKLIAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>
References: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNOELKLIAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>
Message-ID: <43BB08C9.50503@ntlworld.com>

Rob Keeble wrote:
> Bourns 91A High price, but reduces at 50+ volume. Loose feel but actually
> very nice.

Hunting on eBay I bought up a lifetime's supply (well, 120 anyway :-) of 
Bourns 51-series pots (10k linear cermet, smooth action).  Very nice. 
And a nice price too in bulk (even taking account of the shipping from 
the US, worked out about 30p each!!).

Neil
-- 
<http://www.njohnson.co.uk>



From peter at buzzclick-music.com  Wed Jan  4 04:58:08 2006
From: peter at buzzclick-music.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:58:08 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Triggering problems with sequencer. Any thoughts?
In-Reply-To: <43BACEDD.9090001@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BFE087D0.2ADD8%peter@buzzclick-music.com>

You've got the signals you need already - you just have to buffer them. The
easiest way of creating a gate is simply buffering each output of the
counter - the same signals that are fed to the pots.  What I think I'm
seeing here is you're taking the OUTPUT of the pots - the summer -  and
trying to recreate the gate from those.  No need.  the outputs of the
counter are the gates.

If you want triggers from those (predetermined on time which is shorter than
the gate duration, there are a few ways of going about this.  A one shot
comes to mind -  which can be as simple as an R/C at the base of a NPN with
a second NPN after that to pull the trigger back into phase.

mark verbos wrote:

> mult the trigger from the input?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
>> Help! :(
>> 
>> I've successfully got my 4 steps working, with a single 12 position (1
>> octave) rotary switch on each step.
>> 
>> I'm now trying to derive a Gate or Trigger FROM each step when it
>> occurs.  The best I've been able to do, is get a Trigger out to one of
>> my envelope generators, when there's a larger than smaller transistion,
>> between voltages from the Control Voltage out summer.  (Summing all of
>> the rotary switch outputs to a single CV out, which itself is working
>> perfectly.)
>> 
>> As an example - say that I have the 4 notes set on the rotary switches to:
>> 
>> C1 (lowest pitch)
>> C2 (highest pitch)
>> E1 (2nd lowest pitch)
>> B1 (2nd highest pitch)
>> 
>> I'm only getting Triggers, from the Highest and 2nd Highest pitch, due
>> to the difference in voltage out of the CV summer.
>> 
>> I've tried the following combinations on the comparator, that is setup
>> with the following resistor divider on it's negative input:
>> 
>> - +15V through 1M8 to negative input
>> - Negative input through 15K to Ground
>> 
>> On the positive input of the comparator, I've tried:
>> 
>> - CV Out through 0.1uF to positive input; 1M to ground
>> - CV Out through 0.1uF to positive input; 2M to ground
>> - CV Out through 0.001uF to positive input; 1M to ground
>> - CV Out through 0.01uF to positive input; 1M to ground
>> - CV Out through 0.01uF to positive input; 200K to ground
>> 
>> Almost all of them gave me the above description.  The worst (0.1 / 1M)
>> gave me a Trigger on only the very highest voltage.
>> 
>> What can I do, to get a new trigger, from every single step?  (All steps
>> are coming from the 4051 1:8 multiplexer.)  Would I have to have a
>> separate 4051, generating a Gate/Trigger, each time?  (That's my
>> thoughts, now.  Which could be handy for more effects. :) )
>> 
>> Thanks for any help. :)  At least 1 wav file'll be up at my webpage, as
>> soon as I get a Gate or Trigger functioning properly. :)  (Then I'll get
>> the 2nd rotary for each step done as well, so that I can alternate
>> between each pair, on each step. :D )
>> 
>> -- 
>> Take care,
>> Warmth and Peace,
>> Ryk
>> 
>> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
>> Dec 2705 update



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Wed Jan  4 06:38:05 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:38:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Triggering problems with sequencer. Any thoughts?
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601032125u5974a9dag12c041ebaa04a700@mail.gmail.com>
References: <43BACEDD.9090001@earthlink.net>
	 <BFE087D0.2ADD8%peter@buzzclick-music.com>
	 <b6b288a70601032125u5974a9dag12c041ebaa04a700@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601032138k74e9be3dnad674154bda41a07@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you greatly all, for the answers!!  :D  I never even thought of
pulling the Gate or Trigger, from the Counter!  Major Duh on my part. :O
Haha. :D

I JUST realized, about 90 minutes ago at work - that I had to generate a
TRIGGER.  (Or so I thought, before I read your replies.)  Pulling the 'Gate'
off of the Summer Output, outside of allowing something of a Gate, when
there's a great enough change in voltage, to allow my 'gate cap' to
discharge, is having a continuous voltage, with no breaks - hence, the sound
of a synth, in legato. :(

Shortly after I'd typed the initial message, on the way to work, I thought
harder on the use of another 4051, for multiplexing a Gate to 8 individual
Gates (Summing each to a single output, with a switch On/Off for each).
As the idea developed through the day, I thought that a single ON/OFF/ON
switch, could allow either of the following sets of Gates, to occur:

1 - first 4 bits
2 - last 4 bits
3 - all 8 bits

That could give many interesting combinations of notes, with the pair of
rotary switches per step.  And there's still room on the board, to cut away
existing copper for mounting another 4051 onto.  So that's my plan for that,
tomorrow morning, before I hook up the 2nd set of rotaries.

Now ...... to figure out how to generator the Gate and / or Trigger, from
the counter.  My biggest fear (from no previous experience with this,
outside of building envelope generators) is having a constant voltage again
......  shall see what I can figure from your suggestions above, as well as
checking out what other's have done in their sequencers. :)  Many thankees.
:)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0306 update
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From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Wed Jan  4 09:25:29 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 03:25:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] 2SA798 datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <43B815EF.D6562D39@prodigy.net>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
  <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <43B815EF.D6562D39@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040323430.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


Anyone know of somewhere there's a PDF of it I can download?

I want to add it (on Ian's suggestion) to my Synth DIY component datasheet 
archive, and out of all the suggestions that people have sent me, that's 
the 2SA798 is the only one I can't seem to find online already...

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Wed Jan  4 10:00:37 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 04:00:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Adding CA3140 to archive...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040323430.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <43B6AD37.3030805@burnit.co.uk>
  <200512311744.35320.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43B77298.E19BB1D8@prodigy.net>
 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601010226070.23186@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <43B815EF.D6562D39@prodigy.net> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040323430.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040358570.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


As you may have seen I like to put little notes so the students (or 
whoever) can have sense of when to use what part... someone suggested I 
add the CA3140 (which I have seen in many designs) - when would I want to 
use it vs. some other op amp?

(As I'm adding notes, I'm going to try to appropriately credit who came up 
with them...)

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B





From Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com  Wed Jan  4 11:08:18 2006
From: Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com (Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:08:18 +0100
Subject: FW: [sdiy] 2SA798 datasheet?
Message-ID: <FEFBF55D5DB1534C937E060E9C74E05F020EDE53@buebe101.NOE.Nokia.com>

>
>Hali!
>
>The best what I've been collected last year:
>
>2SA798  2xTRANSISTOR SILICON PNP / 50V / 0.1A / 0.4W -  
>0.2W??? / 100MHz 
>
>Pinout is B1, C1, E, C2, B2. The transistors are rated 50 
>Volts, 0.1 Amp, 0.2 Watt, 250-800 gain, with low noise-factor.   
>
>Plus there are some more(?) info in this table:
>http://homepage3.nifty.com/ebina2540/data/2SA/2SA0701-0800.htm
>
>Br,
>	Pala
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
>>[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of ext Aaron 
>>Lanterman
>>Sent: 2006. janu?r 4. 9:25
>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: [sdiy] 2SA798 datasheet?
>>
>>
>>Anyone know of somewhere there's a PDF of it I can download?
>>
>>I want to add it (on Ian's suggestion) to my Synth DIY component 
>>datasheet archive, and out of all the suggestions that people 
>have sent 
>>me, that's the 2SA798 is the only one I can't seem to find online 
>>already...
>>
>>- Aaron
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>--------------
>>
>>Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
>>School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
>>Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
>>Mail Code 0250                         Web:    
>>users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
>>Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>>
>>



From julian at 22host24.com  Wed Jan  4 11:24:25 2006
From: julian at 22host24.com (Julian)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:24:25 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Source of anodised rack pannels (or cut but undrilled sheet) in uk?
Message-ID: <028901c61119$0945c5e0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>

Anyone know of a source of anodised 3u 19" rack blanks (mounting holes only) in the uk?

I specificaly want anodised, not powdercoated.  Black or plain (silver) are both good with me though.

Best ive found so far are vero, via farnell, but theyre probably going to work out over 15quid each, once ive got VAT on there too.

Failing that, im fine to cut the mounting holes, so blank, accuratly cut alumnium would do, but i do need it to be accurate, availible in small runs (aprox 10) and have a spotless finish.

I always seem to miss on one of those points : (

Any ideas?

Cheers, Julian
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From tonyallgood at btinternet.com  Wed Jan  4 11:34:53 2006
From: tonyallgood at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 10:34:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Source of anodised rack pannels (or cut but undrilled
 sheet) in uk?
In-Reply-To: <028901c61119$0945c5e0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
References: <028901c61119$0945c5e0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <43BBA4CD.2040504@btinternet.com>

Schaeffer's plain anodised finish is very nice. It doesn't work out too 
expensive either if you don't have any engraving.

I have ordered some blank rack panels from them in the past for various 
projects.

The other chaps to try are www.studiospares.com

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From fiercefish at btinternet.com  Wed Jan  4 12:23:53 2006
From: fiercefish at btinternet.com (Fiercefish)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:23:53 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Source of anodised rack pannels (or cut but undrilled sheet) in uk?
References: <028901c61119$0945c5e0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <005301c61121$58418640$0302a8c0@acerf7ke5hmde0>

Studiospares have them about ?12 each IIRC

FF
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From lenham at clara.co.uk  Wed Jan  4 12:34:04 2006
From: lenham at clara.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:34:04 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Source of anodised rack pannels (or cut but undrilled sheet) in uk?
References: <028901c61119$0945c5e0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <002401c61122$c64f3dc0$0202a8c0@DELL>

Hi Julian,

Any suppliers to the broadcast industry will have them (like Studiospares, 
as Tony already suggested).

There is also Canford (?8.06 + VAT for 10 off, black anodised also 
available, carriage free if you order via the website):

http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/productdetails.aspx?productid=16-903

or Holt (?7.79 + VAT for 10 off, and they are the nice extruded panels with 
stiffening ribs):

http://www.holtbs.co.uk/blpanel1.html

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Steve L.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julian" <julian at 22host24.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:24 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Source of anodised rack pannels (or cut but undrilled sheet) 
in uk?


Anyone know of a source of anodised 3u 19" rack blanks (mounting holes only) 
in the uk?

I specificaly want anodised, not powdercoated.  Black or plain (silver) are 
both good with me though.

Best ive found so far are vero, via farnell, but theyre probably going to 
work out over 15quid each, once ive got VAT on there too.

Failing that, im fine to cut the mounting holes, so blank, accuratly cut 
alumnium would do, but i do need it to be accurate, availible in small runs 
(aprox 10) and have a spotless finish.

I always seem to miss on one of those points : (

Any ideas?

Cheers, Julian




From daniel.araya at sr.se  Wed Jan  4 12:48:18 2006
From: daniel.araya at sr.se (Daniel Araya)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 12:48:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (still) Looking for ALPS motorized potentiometers
Message-ID: <s3bbc420.094@rhcl03n02.sr.se>

I got a tip about albs.de ....they didn't stock that part but said that
if thy had it they would sell in small quantities...nice but of no help
to me!
Any other ideas where to get the ALPS RK25T motorized potentiometer?

Maybe i'll have to build my own, a Spectrol 149, a couple of gears and
a small dc motor maybe... :)

/d - no luck today


>>> "Daniel Araya" <daniel.araya at SR.SE> 2005-12-22 18:29:44 >>>
>I'm looking for a small quantity of motorized ALPS pots, model RK25T
>(http://www3.alps.co.jp/WebObjects/catalog.woa/PDF/E/Potentiometer/MetalShaft/RMP_RK16/RMP_RK16.PDF)
>
>I contaced my local ALPS distributor and they told me minimum
quantity
>was a pack of 210  with a price of about $11 a piece!
>A bit expensive for some experimentation... :)
>
>Do anyne have a clue where to get a small quantity (5-10) of these? I
>dont even know of any equipment that contains these, they are the
fast
>type, not the ones used in hifi amplifiers. Maybe some high-end
mixing
>consoes?
>
>
>/Daniel, Sweden


From Loopy at loophooligan.co.uk  Wed Jan  4 13:16:54 2006
From: Loopy at loophooligan.co.uk (Loopy)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:16:54 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Elby Designs - Pixie
Message-ID: <200601041200.k04C0iJ32052@ns1.bigpinkdns.co.uk>

Hello

 

I would like to try building the Pixie (a kind of Wasp clone) from

http://www.elby-designs.com <http://www.elby-designs.com/> 

 

Does any one have experience of dealing with this company or has any one
built a pixie?

I know plenty of people have built the ASM but I would like to hear from
someone that's built the Pixie. Is it any good?

 

Regards

Loopy

 

 

 

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From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Jan  4 13:17:29 2006
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:17:29 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (still) Looking for ALPS motorized potentiometers
In-Reply-To: <s3bbc420.094@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
References: <s3bbc420.094@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
Message-ID: <43BBBCD9.7040907@xs4all.nl>

Daniel Araya wrote:
> I got a tip about albs.de ....they didn't stock that part but said that
> if thy had it they would sell in small quantities...nice but of no help
> to me!
> Any other ideas where to get the ALPS RK25T motorized potentiometer?

If it is of any help, Farnell stocks ALPS RK27112MC which is dual 50k
log with motor. It costs 35.51 EUR in small quantities.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,
Simon Brouwer.

| nl.openoffice.org | www.opentaal.org |


From loscha at gmail.com  Wed Jan  4 13:25:16 2006
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 23:25:16 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] (still) Looking for ALPS motorized potentiometers
In-Reply-To: <s3bbc420.094@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
References: <s3bbc420.094@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0601040425l72b9d621j64a9ca40cdc6565f@mail.gmail.com>

Try these?

http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=R2000
These are Available in Australia.
1+ $16.95
5+ $16.50
Dual 20k Log

Direct Picture Link
http://www.altronics.com.au/images/full/R/R2000.gif

-Loscha

On 1/4/06, Daniel Araya <daniel.araya at sr.se> wrote:
>
> I got a tip about albs.de ....they didn't stock that part but said that
> if thy had it they would sell in small quantities...nice but of no help
> to me!
> Any other ideas where to get the ALPS RK25T motorized potentiometer?
>
> Maybe i'll have to build my own, a Spectrol 149, a couple of gears and
> a small dc motor maybe... :)
>
> /d - no luck today
>
>
> >>> "Daniel Araya" <daniel.araya at SR.SE> 2005-12-22 18:29:44 >>>
> >I'm looking for a small quantity of motorized ALPS pots, model RK25T
> >(
> http://www3.alps.co.jp/WebObjects/catalog.woa/PDF/E/Potentiometer/MetalShaft/RMP_RK16/RMP_RK16.PDF
> )
> >
> >I contaced my local ALPS distributor and they told me minimum
> quantity
> >was a pack of 210  with a price of about $11 a piece!
> >A bit expensive for some experimentation... :)
> >
> >Do anyne have a clue where to get a small quantity (5-10) of these? I
> >dont even know of any equipment that contains these, they are the
> fast
> >type, not the ones used in hifi amplifiers. Maybe some high-end
> mixing
> >consoes?
> >
> >
> >/Daniel, Sweden
>
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From daniel.araya at sr.se  Wed Jan  4 13:26:17 2006
From: daniel.araya at sr.se (Daniel Araya)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:26:17 +0100
Subject: Sv: Re: [sdiy] (still) Looking for ALPS motorized
	potentiometers
Message-ID: <s3bbcd12.021@rhcl03n02.sr.se>

Hi!

I have a couple of those potentiometers, they are volume controls for
amplifiers and a bit to slow (300 degrees in 8-10 seconds), and sadly
they didn't work in my application...

/d

>>> Simon Brouwer <simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl> 2006-01-04 13:17:29 >>>
Daniel Araya wrote:
> I got a tip about albs.de ....they didn't stock that part but said
that
> if thy had it they would sell in small quantities...nice but of no
help
> to me!
> Any other ideas where to get the ALPS RK25T motorized potentiometer?

If it is of any help, Farnell stocks ALPS RK27112MC which is dual 50k
log with motor. It costs 35.51 EUR in small quantities.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,
Simon Brouwer.

| nl.openoffice.org | www.opentaal.org |


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Wed Jan  4 13:56:50 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:56:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Source of anodised rack pannels (or cut but undrilled sheet) in uk?
In-Reply-To: <028901c61119$0945c5e0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
References: <028901c61119$0945c5e0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <20060104125650.GA1937@vulcain.knox.com>

On 2006-01-04 10:24 -0000, Julian wrote:

> Anyone know of a source of anodised 3u 19" rack blanks (mounting
> holes only) in the uk?
> 
> I specificaly want anodised, not powdercoated.  Black or plain
> (silver) are both good with me though.
> 
> Failing that, im fine to cut the mounting holes, so blank,
> accuratly cut alumnium would do, but i do need it to be
> accurate, availible in small runs (aprox 10) and have a spotless
> finish.

I can make you panels for cheap but you'll have to drill and
anodise them yourself. A raw 482 mm x 133 mm panel would cost
you around 8.5 EUR plus shipping from France (550 g per panel).

  http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/shear/

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Wed Jan  4 14:44:51 2006
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:44:51 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Elby Designs - Pixie
In-Reply-To: <200601041200.k04C0iJ32052@ns1.bigpinkdns.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BFE181D3.4CF3%davekendall@ntlworld.com>

Hi.

I thoroughly recommend Elby designs. I haven't built the pixie, but Laurie
Biddulph is a top bloke, and very helpful. I got a Midi-CV converter from
him for my knackered old wasp.



cheers,

Dave





on 4/1/06 12:16, Loopy at Loopy at loophooligan.co.uk wrote:

Hello 

 

I would like to try building the Pixie (a kind of Wasp clone) from

http://www.elby-designs.com <http://www.elby-designs.com/>

 

Does any one have experience of dealing with this company or has any one
built a pixie? 

I know plenty of people have built the ASM but I would like to hear from
someone that?s built the Pixie. Is it any good?

 

Regards 

Loopy 

 
 
 






From S.Grainger at staffs.ac.uk  Wed Jan  4 16:04:54 2006
From: S.Grainger at staffs.ac.uk (GRAINGER Steve)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 15:04:54 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Backlight replacement
Message-ID: <AB7E99BFBC4AFB4A845D6D16A84FE7D37EC8C1@crwnmail4.staff.staffs.ac.uk>

Dear All,
 
Off topic but definitely DIY!!!!!
 
My Akai S3000 sampler's backlight is dying a slow but dignified death.
Some options occur to me and I'd like opinions from any of you who've
had this problem.
 
It seems to me I can do several things:-
 
1. Replace the backlight with the 'correct' item from Cimple Solutions
 
2. Get a universal 'kit' backlight EL panel from Farnell (or other
source?)
 
3. Go for a LED panel (I'm sure I can tap into a suitable voltage
somewhere) as an 'off-the-shelf' item
 
4. Make my own panel with matrix board and surface mount LED and current
limiting resistors.
 
Anyone out there had a go at this? Any suggestions?
 
Regards to you all.
 
Steve 


The information in this email is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee.  Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised.  



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, except for the purpose of delivery to the addressee, is prohibited and may be unlawful.  Kindly notify the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your computer.
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From louis at dompselaar.org  Wed Jan  4 16:13:54 2006
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:13:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Backlight replacement
In-Reply-To: <AB7E99BFBC4AFB4A845D6D16A84FE7D37EC8C1@crwnmail4.staff.staffs.ac.uk>
References: <AB7E99BFBC4AFB4A845D6D16A84FE7D37EC8C1@crwnmail4.staff.staffs.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <43BBE632.10909@dompselaar.org>

> 1. Replace the backlight with the 'correct' item from Cimple Solutions

I think you'll find these are slightly cheaper:
http://www.midi-rakete.de/eng/preise.htm


From altitude at optrand.com  Wed Jan  4 16:38:57 2006
From: altitude at optrand.com (Altitude)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:38:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Backlight replacement
In-Reply-To: <AB7E99BFBC4AFB4A845D6D16A84FE7D37EC8C1@crwnmail4.staff.staffs.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200601041538.k04FcuG9015207@dropmix>

I have purchased a replacement EL from Telesis (they make custom sizes) and
it went pretty smooth, I'm sure there is someone out your ways that does the
same thing.  One tip though, if you can avoid it, DO NOT REMOVE THE LCD from
its PCB. I fixed a rack synth with a burned out backlight and  made that
mistake, spent hours trying to line up the contacts (the rubber ones) with
the display.  The backlight was glued (small dab) to the PCB and I could
have easily just pried it off with a plastic knife without taking the LCD
housing off and just slid it out.
 
Cheers
Alt
 

__________________________________________
"Setting the RESONANCE to high level might prove interesting" - Roland
SH-101 Manual

www.no-ho.com
www.teknatural.com


  

 

  _____  

From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of GRAINGER Steve
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:05 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Backlight replacement


Dear All,
 
Off topic but definitely DIY!!!!!
 
My Akai S3000 sampler's backlight is dying a slow but dignified death. Some
options occur to me and I'd like opinions from any of you who've had this
problem.
 
It seems to me I can do several things:-
 
1. Replace the backlight with the 'correct' item from Cimple Solutions
 
2. Get a universal 'kit' backlight EL panel from Farnell (or other source?)
 
3. Go for a LED panel (I'm sure I can tap into a suitable voltage somewhere)
as an 'off-the-shelf' item
 
4. Make my own panel with matrix board and surface mount LED and current
limiting resistors.
 
Anyone out there had a go at this? Any suggestions?
 
Regards to you all.
 
Steve

The information in this email is confidential and is intended solely for the
addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. 

If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution
or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, except for the
purpose of delivery to the addressee, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
Kindly notify the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your
computer. 
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From topybear at chello.hu  Wed Jan  4 16:39:11 2006
From: topybear at chello.hu (Topybear)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:39:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Backlight replacement
In-Reply-To: <AB7E99BFBC4AFB4A845D6D16A84FE7D37EC8C1@crwnmail4.staff.sta
 ffs.ac.uk>
References: <AB7E99BFBC4AFB4A845D6D16A84FE7D37EC8C1@crwnmail4.staff.staffs.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060104163352.02458080@chello.hu>


>
>2. Get a universal 'kit' backlight EL panel from Farnell (or other source?)

eBay: 
<http://stores.ebay.co.uk/The-Neon-Shop_Neon_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQftidZ2QQtZkm>. 
White, green, red, blue.

Topy



From julian at 22host24.com  Wed Jan  4 16:47:56 2006
From: julian at 22host24.com (Julian)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 15:47:56 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Elby Designs - Pixie
References: <200601041200.k04C0iJ32052@ns1.bigpinkdns.co.uk>
Message-ID: <03ac01c61146$3b5a89d0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>

I guess i last spoke to Laurie a couple of months ago, and enquired up the pixie then, and, at that point he was just in the process of changing the design somewhat (more then just tweaks)

Im looking forward to the project being released too : )

Julian
(currently at 3 wasps...)


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Loopy 
  To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:16 PM
  Subject: [sdiy] Elby Designs - Pixie


  Hello

   

  I would like to try building the Pixie (a kind of Wasp clone) from

  http://www.elby-designs.com

   

  Does any one have experience of dealing with this company or has any one built a pixie?

  I know plenty of people have built the ASM but I would like to hear from someone that's built the Pixie. Is it any good?

   

  Regards

  Loopy

   

   

   

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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Jan  4 17:33:07 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 08:33:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Adding CA3140 to archive...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040358570.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>

The 3140 is useful for applications where you want a really, really
  high input impedance... mainly S/H  or inregrator applications..
  
  Its offset voltage is not great, in many cases the TL071 would be
  a competitor in input impedance. 
  
  H^) harry

Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:  
As you may have seen I like to put little notes so the students (or 
whoever) can have sense of when to use what part... someone suggested I 
add the CA3140 (which I have seen in many designs) - when would I want to 
use it vs. some other op amp?

(As I'm adding notes, I'm going to try to appropriately credit who came up 
with them...)

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B





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From synth_dg at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  4 18:28:11 2006
From: synth_dg at yahoo.com (daryl groetsch)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 09:28:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Variacs and modular synths
In-Reply-To: <BFD6FD8C.2A9B6%peter@buzzclick-music.com>
Message-ID: <20060104172811.32512.qmail@web51604.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm picking up a variac from a friend, going to wire
it up today. i want to experiment with slowly powering
up and powering down synth modules (and other stuff
too). i know my Blacet power supplies will try to keep
a steady voltage going to the modules, but i still
want to see what happens at lower volages. i like the
sound of turning off and on my synth and want to
control that--a switch just isn't enough. must admit i
was inspired by that NPR program on the Barrons and
their soundtrack for Forbidden Planet. they did this
and described it as something like bringing and taking
away life from the circuit. 

so, if i keep it below 120 volts, i shouldn't run any
risk of damaging anything, right? anyone done similar
experiments?

thanks a lot, 
Daryl


http://synthnoise.com/



		
__________________________________________ 
Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. 
Just $16.99/mo. or less. 
dsl.yahoo.com 



From peter at buzzclick-music.com  Wed Jan  4 18:43:59 2006
From: peter at buzzclick-music.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 09:43:59 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Triggering problems with sequencer. Any thoughts?
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601032138k74e9be3dnad674154bda41a07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFE1495F.2AE17%peter@buzzclick-music.com>

Pulling gates is easy.  This is what you do:

Take the counter outs, or outs from a line driver after the counter (which
you should consider)   - whichever you do, tap off the inputs to the pots
(or rotary switches - however you're making voltage level selection) and run
them through NPN emitter-followers. This will increase your drive and more
important,  buffer the counter (or driver) outputs to the outside world -
you don't want to expose these signals to the faceplate because you'll screw
the internal counting to hell if you're running high loads on your gate
outputs .  For safe measure, after the e-f's, run the signal through series
diodes - thus protecting the e-f's  in case you accidentally connect an
output to them.  This will also allow gates outputs to be combined.

You can also use these counter/driver signals to drive the stage LEDs - but
make sure you do that before the e-followers or your brightness will vary
when the gate outputs are being used.

hope this helps -

- P  


Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:

Thank you greatly all, for the answers!!  :D  I never even thought of
pulling the Gate or Trigger, from the Counter!  Major Duh on my part. :O
Haha. :D

I JUST realized, about 90 minutes ago at work - that I had to generate a
TRIGGER.  (Or so I thought, before I read your replies.)  Pulling the 'Gate'
off of the Summer Output, outside of allowing something of a Gate, when
there's a great enough change in voltage, to allow my 'gate cap' to
discharge, is having a continuous voltage, with no breaks - hence, the sound
of a synth, in legato. :(

Shortly after I'd typed the initial message, on the way to work, I thought
harder on the use of another 4051, for multiplexing a Gate to 8 individual
Gates (Summing each to a single output, with a switch On/Off for each).
As the idea developed through the day, I thought that a single ON/OFF/ON
switch, could allow either of the following sets of Gates, to occur:

1 - first 4 bits
2 - last 4 bits
3 - all 8 bits

That could give many interesting combinations of notes, with the pair of
rotary switches per step.  And there's still room on the board, to cut away
existing copper for mounting another 4051 onto.  So that's my plan for that,
tomorrow morning, before I hook up the 2nd set of rotaries.

Now ...... to figure out how to generator the Gate and / or Trigger, from
the counter.  My biggest fear (from no previous experience with this,
outside of building envelope generators) is having a constant voltage again
......  shall see what I can figure from your suggestions above, as well as
checking out what other's have done in their sequencers. :)  Many thankees.
:) 


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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Wed Jan  4 18:46:20 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:46:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] The first WAV sample of my sequencer is UP! :D
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601040946i2e29a90bkfc10b130dccb759d@mail.gmail.com>

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/Damian/Recording3.wav

:D

Now - the recording quality of it is crappy as hell, being 11khz / 8 bit /
mono, as recorded on my Pocket PC and transferred to my PC, but it's almost
a minute long, allowing you to hear the current 4 x Rotary switches (1 per
step) which are capable of 1 octave each, cycling away as I change notes on
each of them. :)

Many thanks for assistance (known and not) to:

Harry Bissell; Ray Wilson; Pete Grenader, Mark Verbos and Ken Stone for tips
and schematic portions that you've provided, that have helped me get this
module, up and running! :D

As suggested, I pulled the Gate off of the Clock (the latter of which I got
hooked up PROPERLY this morning).  It's working like a dream!  Before I get
the 2nd set of rotaries hooked up for each step, I'm going to set up another
CD4051 multiplexer, so that I can have individual Gate On / Off for each
step, as well as various combinations of Gates on / off in sets of 4 steps.
That should be up and running by tomorrow as I don't have enough time left
today, before work.

Anyhoo!  Please pardon my excitement, but for 23 years I've wanted a
sequencer like this - and the one that I designed most of myself - is
FINALLY, up and running!  I can't wait to build more of them, as well as
expand this one!  :D  Woohoo!  :D :D


--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  4 20:12:15 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 12:12:15 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Adding CA3140 to archive...
In-Reply-To: <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040358570.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
 <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060104115749.03420eb0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 09:33 AM 1/4/06, Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
>The 3140 is useful for applications where you want a really, really
>high input impedance... mainly S/H  or inregrator applications..

Yes!  Still in production and available for <$1 from ElectronicGoldmine, 
Jameco and Mouser.  Great bang for the buck.

Electronic Goldmine has them for $.45 and they also have CA3083 for 
$.60.  The 3083 is still my favorite for NPN expo converters (use 
transistor #3 for HF tracking).  Low Re and very good matching.  Stock up 
on these, folks.

   Ian 



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Wed Jan  4 20:46:09 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:46:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Adding CA3140 to archive...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060104115749.03420eb0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20060104194609.33084.qmail@web25503.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Second that!

Perhaps its time to start a CA3083 user union Ian! :)

However, it seams that Intersil is having a rather 
large wafer stock of these since they now can offer
PB free units! And looking into the resalers stock
gives us that over 10k units are available! :)

KD

--- Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net> skrev:

> At 09:33 AM 1/4/06, Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
> >The 3140 is useful for applications where you want a really, really
> >high input impedance... mainly S/H  or inregrator applications..
> 
> Yes!  Still in production and available for <$1 from ElectronicGoldmine, 
> Jameco and Mouser.  Great bang for the buck.
> 
> Electronic Goldmine has them for $.45 and they also have CA3083 for 
> $.60.  The 3083 is still my favorite for NPN expo converters (use 
> transistor #3 for HF tracking).  Low Re and very good matching.  Stock up 
> on these, folks.
> 
>    Ian 
> 
> 



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  4 21:08:10 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:08:10 -0700
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Adding CA3140 to archive...
In-Reply-To: <20060104194609.33084.qmail@web25503.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060104115749.03420eb0@mail.earthlink.net>
 <20060104194609.33084.qmail@web25503.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060104130529.0341f820@mail.earthlink.net>

At 12:46 PM 1/4/06, karl dalen wrote:

>Perhaps its time to start a CA3083 user union Ian! :)
>
>However, it seams that Intersil is having a rather
>large wafer stock of these since they now can offer
>PB free units! And looking into the resalers stock
>gives us that over 10k units are available! :)

Hope you are right.  Just remember how quickly the CA3080's, 2SC1583's, 
etc. disappeared, though.

   Ian



From prowlerraven32 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  4 21:46:52 2006
From: prowlerraven32 at yahoo.com (Logan Mitchell Sr)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:46:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Questions about VCO control voltage amplification/buffering circuitry
Message-ID: <20060104204652.47697.qmail@web33311.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

    01/04/2006
   
  If I want to have the external control voltage output from an analog synthesizer control my homemade VCO's through their control voltage inputs, should I construct a buffer amp circuit to boost the signal level input from the external analog keyboard going into my VCO's CV inputs ?
   
  Logan



			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
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From rtellason at blazenet.net  Wed Jan  4 22:11:14 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:11:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Adding CA3140 to archive...
In-Reply-To: <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200601041611.14779.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Wednesday 04 January 2006 11:33 am, Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
> The 3140 is useful for applications where you want a really, really
>   high input impedance... mainly S/H  or inregrator applications..
>
>   Its offset voltage is not great, in many cases the TL071 would be
>   a competitor in input impedance.
>
>   H^) harry
>
> Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:
> As you may have seen I like to put little notes so the students (or
> whoever) can have sense of when to use what part... someone suggested I
> add the CA3140 (which I have seen in many designs) - when would I want to
> use it vs. some other op amp?
>
> (As I'm adding notes, I'm going to try to appropriately credit who came up
> with them...)
>
> - Aaron

Doesn't the 3140 also do better with extremely low supply voltages?

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Jan  4 23:26:31 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 14:26:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Questions about VCO control voltage amplification/buffering circuitry
In-Reply-To: <20060104204652.47697.qmail@web33311.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060104222631.56340.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com>

I would try hooking it direct first. Usually a CV output can drive
  many inputs without trouble.
  
  In some cases, the CV may be in the wrong octave for your
  use, or may be slightly out of tune, or scale.  In that case I'd build
  an external buffer with a gain and offset trimmer... and maybe some
  octave switches as an option. Then you can avoid re-calibrating your VCOs
  to the external source... if it is not absolutly the same
  
  H^) harry

Logan Mitchell Sr <prowlerraven32 at yahoo.com> wrote:      01/04/2006
   
  If  I want to have the external control voltage output from an analog  synthesizer control my homemade VCO's through their control voltage  inputs, should I construct a buffer amp circuit to boost the signal  level input from the external analog keyboard going into my VCO's CV  inputs ?
   
  Logan


       

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
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From margus.kliimask at mail.ee  Wed Jan  4 23:34:47 2006
From: margus.kliimask at mail.ee (Margus Kliimask)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 00:34:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Matrix-1000 Firmware Version
Message-ID: <000301c6117f$11c01e80$653ea8c0@kalasaba>

Hi,
 
Does anyone here know what is the firmware revision of the cream-face
Matrix-1000? (The revision is normally displayed on LED display for a moment
after you turn the M1000 on). Is it better (later) than 1.11 of my
black-face M1000? 
If anyone has a version later than 1.11 pls let me know. Even better, if it
exists could I have a hex dump? Please?
 
Best regards,
Margus Kliimask
 
 
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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Thu Jan  5 00:07:10 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:07:10 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Matrix-1000 Firmware Version
In-Reply-To: <000301c6117f$11c01e80$653ea8c0@kalasaba>
References: <000301c6117f$11c01e80$653ea8c0@kalasaba>
Message-ID: <43BC551E.9090004@burnit.co.uk>

On the subject of matrix 1000s, do you know of a good PC editor?  
Preferably a VST plugin.  I've tried a couple of editors, but haven't 
found one I'm quite happy with yet ...

Seb


Margus Kliimask wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> Does anyone here know what is the firmware revision of the cream-face 
> Matrix-1000? (The revision is normally displayed on LED display for a 
> moment after you turn the M1000 on). Is it better (later) than 1.11 of 
> my black-face M1000?
> If anyone has a version later than 1.11 pls let me know. Even better, 
> if it exists could I have a hex dump? Please?
>  
> Best regards,
> Margus Kliimask
>  
>  




From zifcak at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  5 00:07:47 2006
From: zifcak at hotmail.com (gregory zifcak)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:07:47 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] yamaha long shot
Message-ID: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl>

hi,
i'm trying to get a cs-30's sequencer running. it steps, and triggers the 
leds and egs, but the oscillators don't appear to be receiving cv. does 
anyone know of a source for ta7504m and ta7505m opamps? from the underside 
it looks like they are the circular package.
thanks for any suggestions,
greg




From instructor at billiardsinstruction.com  Thu Jan  5 00:33:57 2006
From: instructor at billiardsinstruction.com (instructor at billiardsinstruction.com)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:33:57 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <S372676AbWADXd5/20060104233357Z+47785@lmg11.affinity.com>

unsubscribe synth diy


From cornutt at hiwaay.net  Thu Jan  5 03:24:08 2006
From: cornutt at hiwaay.net (David Cornutt)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:24:08 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Matrix-1000 Firmware Version
In-Reply-To: <000301c6117f$11c01e80$653ea8c0@kalasaba>
References: <000301c6117f$11c01e80$653ea8c0@kalasaba>
Message-ID: <59E7B152-7D92-11DA-A68F-0003938E2F50@hiwaay.net>


On Jan 4, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Margus Kliimask wrote:

> Hi,
> ?
> Does anyone here know what is the firmware revision of the cream-face 
> Matrix-1000??(The revision is normally displayed on?LED display for a 
> moment after you turn the M1000 on). Is it better?(later) than 1.11 of 
> my black-face M1000?
>

I'm not certain, but I think that 1.11 was the last version.  I've read 
that the white-face M1Ks were
assembled from remaining stock and are exactly the same except for the 
panel finish.





From mtechgroup at onemain.com  Thu Jan  5 03:43:13 2006
From: mtechgroup at onemain.com (MTG)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:43:13 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Source of anodised rack pannels (or cut but undrilled sheet) in uk?
References: <028901c61119$0945c5e0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <002c01c611a1$c858afa0$c09cb2d1@oemcomputer>

Maybe you can find a dealer for Penn Fabrication's stuff in the 
UK.  I think they are USA based, but we used to get it in Canada
and it was a great deal:

http://www.penn-elcom.com/home.asp

GB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Julian 
  To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:24 AM
  Subject: [sdiy] Source of anodised rack pannels (or cut but undrilled sheet) in uk?


  Anyone know of a source of anodised 3u 19" rack blanks (mounting holes only) in the uk?

  I specificaly want anodised, not powdercoated.  Black or plain (silver) are both good with me though.

  Best ive found so far are vero, via farnell, but theyre probably going to work out over 15quid each, once ive got VAT on there too.

  Failing that, im fine to cut the mounting holes, so blank, accuratly cut alumnium would do, but i do need it to be accurate, availible in small runs (aprox 10) and have a spotless finish.

  I always seem to miss on one of those points : (

  Any ideas?

  Cheers, Julian
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From synth_dg at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  5 05:53:36 2006
From: synth_dg at yahoo.com (daryl groetsch)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:53:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Variacs and modular synths
In-Reply-To: <20060104172811.32512.qmail@web51604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060105045336.32649.qmail@web51615.mail.yahoo.com>

thought i'd give an update,
got it working! it does some interesting things. my
oscillators pitches when down, filter cutoff frequency
when down. everything started sounding warbly and
unstable. got it down to 40 percent or so! really fun,
can't wait to see how it effects other patches. 

best, 
Daryl




--- daryl groetsch <synth_dg at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm picking up a variac from a friend, going to wire
> it up today. i want to experiment with slowly
> powering
> up and powering down synth modules (and other stuff
> too). i know my Blacet power supplies will try to
> keep
> a steady voltage going to the modules, but i still
> want to see what happens at lower volages. i like
> the
> sound of turning off and on my synth and want to
> control that--a switch just isn't enough. must admit
> i
> was inspired by that NPR program on the Barrons and
> their soundtrack for Forbidden Planet. they did this
> and described it as something like bringing and
> taking
> away life from the circuit. 
> 
> so, if i keep it below 120 volts, i shouldn't run
> any
> risk of damaging anything, right? anyone done
> similar
> experiments?
> 
> thanks a lot, 
> Daryl
> 
> 
> http://synthnoise.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________________ 
> Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. 
> Just $16.99/mo. or less. 
> dsl.yahoo.com 
> 
> 



		
__________________________________________ 
Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. 
Just $16.99/mo. or less. 
dsl.yahoo.com 



From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  5 06:09:28 2006
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:09:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] yamaha long shot
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060105050928.79338.qmail@web81212.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

You ruled out operator error, right? What you describe is what happens
if the switch for Seq/Keyboard isn't set to Seq in both VCO sections...

--- gregory zifcak <zifcak at hotmail.com> wrote:

> hi,
> i'm trying to get a cs-30's sequencer running. it steps, and triggers
> the 
> leds and egs, but the oscillators don't appear to be receiving cv.
> does 
> anyone know of a source for ta7504m and ta7505m opamps? from the
> underside 
> it looks like they are the circular package.
> thanks for any suggestions,
> greg
> 
> 
> 



From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Thu Jan  5 08:31:10 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 01:31:10 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20060102081130.0278cb18@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <005501c611ca$0081a440$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: James Patchell <patchell at cox.net>
To: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive


> And the LM324 is not really a single power supply opamp...you will find it
> actually works best from a +/- power supply....they call it single supply
> because the input common mode range includes the negative supply rail and
> the output can go down very close to the negative rail.  However...I
> generally never stock them any more.  I use TL0xx opamps everywhere for
the
> most part.

I find MC3403 to be a much better alternative to LM324.  I've used them in
the place of TL0*4 in several circuits including expo VCOs with no loss in
performance.  I agree that they are not essentially a single supply amp.
I've had LFO's made with these work only with dual supply, even though I
originally intended it for single.



From tonyallgood at btinternet.com  Thu Jan  5 09:54:59 2006
From: tonyallgood at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 08:54:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] yamaha long shot
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43BCDEE3.2030107@btinternet.com>

Further to other folks answers, I can confirm that the CS30's sequencer 
doesn't behave as one would expect. As well as the SEQ slide switches on 
the VCO sections, the hold function on the sequencer section is quite 
confusing. Turning up the first sequence pot should act as a scale pot 
for the rest of the sequence. If this is turned down then the sequencer 
appears to be broken.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu Jan  5 10:20:34 2006
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 01:20:34 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] yamaha long shot
In-Reply-To: <20060105050928.79338.qmail@web81212.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060105050928.79338.qmail@web81212.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43BCE4E2.3060404@imt.net>

Good going Doug, that sounds likely. I've never used the CS-30 but the 
20M has some things that aren't obvious until you realize what's routed 
to what etc.  Lots more stuff going on with the 30 and with that 
interface I can imagine.

I did find a couple sources on the chip for him worst case scenario.  A 
lot of time finding the yamaha part number is an easier way to search 
since Bill Greenhill has them all listed that way. -Bob

Doug Terrebonne wrote:

>You ruled out operator error, right? What you describe is what happens
>if the switch for Seq/Keyboard isn't set to Seq in both VCO sections...
>
>--- gregory zifcak <zifcak at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>hi,
>>i'm trying to get a cs-30's sequencer running. it steps, and triggers
>>the 
>>leds and egs, but the oscillators don't appear to be receiving cv.
>>does 
>>anyone know of a source for ta7504m and ta7505m opamps? from the
>>underside 
>>it looks like they are the circular package.
>>thanks for any suggestions,
>>greg
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Thu Jan  5 10:29:32 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 04:29:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Started putting together class website
In-Reply-To: <43BCDEE3.2030107@btinternet.com>
References: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl> <43BCDEE3.2030107@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601050427230.16344@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu>


Alas, so far I only have up a tentative outline (in case anyone's 
curious), and a pic of me soldering on a MOTM module...

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/ece4803

Oh, there's also a link there to my patents collection, which I recently 
updated.

Now I need to do a (big) update to the current modular synth list and the 
DIY datasheet/ap note collection. Thanks for the many people who have sent 
feedback!

I have 29 students signed up locally, and 8 in Savannah that will be 
taking it over a video link.

- Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B



From loscha at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 10:40:55 2006
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:40:55 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Started putting together class website
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601050427230.16344@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl>
	 <43BCDEE3.2030107@btinternet.com>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601050427230.16344@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0601050140h67361e0ci28bf3ba70bda6bac@mail.gmail.com>

excellent lecture you have lined up
will any of this be available online in other than streaming format?

Looks like the kind of thing I'd like, and some of my friends around would
like, too.

-edward

On 1/5/06, Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Alas, so far I only have up a tentative outline (in case anyone's
> curious), and a pic of me soldering on a MOTM module...
>
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/ece4803
>
> Oh, there's also a link there to my patents collection, which I recently
> updated.
>
> Now I need to do a (big) update to the current modular synth list and the
> DIY datasheet/ap note collection. Thanks for the many people who have sent
> feedback!
>
> I have 29 students signed up locally, and 8 in Savannah that will be
> taking it over a video link.
>
> - Aaron
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> Mail Code 0250                         Web:
> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma
> Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
>
>
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From grichter at asapnet.net  Thu Jan  5 11:00:16 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 04:00:16 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Synthesizer Soundsheet Library
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060104115749.03420eb0@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040358570.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060104115749.03420eb0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <51BEA337-02EE-4436-978C-4AE207845EE6@asapnet.net>

Saw this on AH - Fun place to visit

http://www.keyboardmuseum.org/soundsheet/soundsheet.html

They have the demo record for the Tau System "Pipe" phaser (diode  
ladder phaser).


The Woggle-Bug forever
     Is making some remark
Which may be mighty clever
     But leaves us in the dark;

- L. Frank Baum





From alertme at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  5 12:41:27 2006
From: alertme at hotmail.com (Alert me)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:41:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Idea to design to prototype to Product question.
Message-ID: <BAY105-F2DFBF668AB6DC50D3A887A92E0@phx.gbl>

Hi All,

Sorry for the generic question.


I have a few ideas which i desperately want to try out to materialise into a 
product.

Though i have electronics knowledge and am now working with computers ( 
support)
I am stuck in the idea of the product phase.

Now, i have documented all the requirements / features and how the product 
behaviour( functionality).

Since the product is going to have a Kind of (complex ) controller circuit
Now, i am not sure, how to start.

Build the mechanical structure  > firmware > I/f with PC  > PC software

Please help with the basics. I am new in this field.


Groetjes  and Regards

Alertme




From julian at 22host24.com  Thu Jan  5 14:31:38 2006
From: julian at 22host24.com (Julian)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:31:38 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin?
Message-ID: <063d01c611fc$5b5adcb0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>

Right, Its something ive wondered about for a long time, but never made a start with, so im wondering -  etching your own board: how much of a black art is it?

How many attempts is it likely to take before i get it right (i know thats an open ended question, but, is it like 'wow - he got it to work first time - amazing!' or what?)

I have a friend who tried twice in the past, with no success, i suspect that they were reasonably carefull, so thats what worries me ; )

Is there some fool proof technique?  Im guessing that the variables of temperature, time, and chemical makeup all affect things, so im wondering if i can get a specific set of one make of chemicals / boards and just follow the directions to the letter - ie to take out any human skill on my behalf.

I know some of you make boards all the time, but, as i say, im aware my friend had no success, so it cant be that easy either.

Any comments at all would be most appreciated.

Again, im in England, so any suggested products need to be available here too.


Failing all that, if i want to get a company to do it for me...

To go from the schematic to pcb, i need to do the layout in some program (any free and easy suggestions?) and upload the file to a company (i know there have been threads in the past on companies), but, having never used the layout software, im wondering how automated it all is?  Ie. is there stuff i need to *know* about board layout rather then just being careful with inputting data off schematic?  (Will i have decisions to make)

Basically, id like to start on this, whichever way, but id really like some pointers as to where to begin.

Cheers, Julian

 
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From folkertsmitstra86 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  5 14:46:36 2006
From: folkertsmitstra86 at hotmail.com (Folkert Smitstra)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 13:46:36 +0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <BAY110-F435E99CF165E446FDFD80BB2E0@phx.gbl>

Subscribe




From henrybg at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 15:37:01 2006
From: henrybg at gmail.com (Benjamin Henry)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:37:01 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Started putting together class website
In-Reply-To: <17035a3d0601050140h67361e0ci28bf3ba70bda6bac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl>
	 <43BCDEE3.2030107@btinternet.com>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601050427230.16344@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <17035a3d0601050140h67361e0ci28bf3ba70bda6bac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43c4250e0601050637w3ceebfdfw38ffe32fa42f934c@mail.gmail.com>

Aaron,

I would be interested, as would my friends over at Purdue.  We never had a
class with labs like what you're proposing, and we missed out.  Keep the
list in mind!!

Ben

On 1/5/06, Loscha <loscha at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> excellent lecture you have lined up
> will any of this be available online in other than streaming format?
>
> Looks like the kind of thing I'd like, and some of my friends around would
> like, too.
>
> -edward
>
> On 1/5/06, Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Alas, so far I only have up a tentative outline (in case anyone's
> > curious), and a pic of me soldering on a MOTM module...
> >
> > http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/ece4803
> > <http://users.ece.gatech.edu/%7Elanterma/ece4803>
> >
> > Oh, there's also a link there to my patents collection, which I recently
> > updated.
> >
> > Now I need to do a (big) update to the current modular synth list and
> > the
> > DIY datasheet/ap note collection. Thanks for the many people who have
> > sent
> > feedback!
> >
> > I have 29 students signed up locally, and 8 in Savannah that will be
> > taking it over a video link.
> >
> > - Aaron
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> > School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> > Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> > Mail Code 0250                         Web:
> > users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma <http://users.ece.gatech.edu/%7Elanterma>
> > Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B
> >
> >
>


--
"Quality is the compromise between art and technology" - Robert Persig
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From jmahoney at gate.net  Thu Jan  5 16:58:42 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:58:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Started putting together class website
References: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl> <43BCDEE3.2030107@btinternet.com> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601050427230.16344@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <0a7801c61210$e7104e20$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

It's going to be an excellent class, I'm sure. Naturally, we're all wishing
you success with it!

"The evils of aliasing " topic shows up in at least 2 places, and could
creep into more. How about an early lecture reviewing the physics of sound,
acoustics, analog electronics (tubes into SS into ICs, the brief reign of
dedicated synth chips, the introduction of digital controls, and finally
digital audio. You can cover the evils of aliasing with regard to both audio
(digital oscs / waveshaping / filters / etc.) as well as the use of
digitized control parameters, which dates back to Obies, Prophets, etc.
Aliasing will also come into play if/when you cover digitally-generated CVs
(e.g., for envelopes). Will the Buchla 200e be discussed?
--
john


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Lanterman" <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:29 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Started putting together class website


>
> Alas, so far I only have up a tentative outline (in case anyone's
> curious), and a pic of me soldering on a MOTM module...
>
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/ece4803
>
> Oh, there's also a link there to my patents collection, which I recently
> updated.
>
> Now I need to do a (big) update to the current modular synth list and the
> DIY datasheet/ap note collection. Thanks for the many people who have sent
> feedback!
>
> I have 29 students signed up locally, and 8 in Savannah that will be
> taking it over a video link.
>
> - Aaron
>



From henrybg at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 17:20:10 2006
From: henrybg at gmail.com (Benjamin Henry)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:20:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Started putting together class website
In-Reply-To: <0a7801c61210$e7104e20$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>
References: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl>
	 <43BCDEE3.2030107@btinternet.com>
	 <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601050427230.16344@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <0a7801c61210$e7104e20$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>
Message-ID: <43c4250e0601050820p6e23419foe60ffedbfd9ba984@mail.gmail.com>

"The evils of aliasing " topic shows up in at least 2 places, and couldcreep
into more.

Is DSP a prereq?  What about Digital Logic?  Can I take the class remotely
from Buffalo, NY?

How about an early lecture reviewing the physics of sound,acoustics, analog
electronics (tubes into SS into ICs, the brief reign ofdedicated synth
chips, the introduction of digital controls, and finallydigital audio.

That would be nice :).

You can cover the evils of aliasing with regard to both audio(digital oscs /
waveshaping / filters / etc.) as well as the use ofdigitized control
parameters, which dates back to Obies, Prophets, etc.Aliasing will also come
into play if/when you cover digitally-generated CVs(e.g., for envelopes).

If the students have gone though a signals class, or more specifically a DSP
class, they would know about all of this stuff.

I'm sorry about responding twice when I have no place to do so, but will you
be covering any advanced electronic music techniques, like Linear Predictive
Coding (LPC) (which can be used in radar, wireless communications and other
fields) that was developed for the purpose of music?

-Ben
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From BrickeyG at jcnj.org  Thu Jan  5 17:43:04 2006
From: BrickeyG at jcnj.org (Greg Brickey)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:43:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] broken korg polysix
Message-ID: <s3bd0664.081@cityofjerseycity.com>

Korg polysix question....

A friend gave me broken polysix, apparently it was dropped hard and stopped working. Despite the drop, I assumed the battery leak issue had something to do with it not working, since my friend didn't even know there was a battery. However, after opening it up I discovered it was serviced in 1994 and there is a new battery and no corrosion damage. The battery is probably dead by now but not leaking. Can someone point me in the right direction as to which board may be the source of the problem before I just dive in. Only one led works after it was dropped, the far left one by the octave knob. No sound at all, although there is a nice amplified pop when the power is turned on or off. 

Thanks,
GB




From fetafarmer at fetafarm.com  Thu Jan  5 18:09:31 2006
From: fetafarmer at fetafarm.com (Kevin Haywood)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:09:31 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Started putting together class website
In-Reply-To: <0a7801c61210$e7104e20$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>
References: <BAY101-F30FDCD4015E40F7983A92DD32F0@phx.gbl> <43BCDEE3.2030107@btinternet.com> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601050427230.16344@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu> <0a7801c61210$e7104e20$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>
Message-ID: <7F4ECFC8-669E-4C2B-AD0A-0ACD902ACB04@fetafarm.com>

"The evils of aliasing" topic should not omit the most troublesome of  
auditory artifacts: "the sound of a thousand voices complaining about  
aliasing."

Kevin


On Jan 5, 2006, at 7:58 AM, john mahoney wrote:

> "The evils of aliasing " topic shows up in at least 2 places, and  
> could
> creep into more. How about an early lecture reviewing the physics  
> of sound,
> acoustics, analog electronics (tubes into SS into ICs, the brief  
> reign of
> dedicated synth chips, the introduction of digital controls, and  
> finally
> digital audio. You can cover the evils of aliasing with regard to  
> both audio
> (digital oscs / waveshaping / filters / etc.) as well as the use of
> digitized control parameters, which dates back to Obies, Prophets,  
> etc.
> Aliasing will also come into play if/when you cover digitally- 
> generated CVs
> (e.g., for envelopes). Will the Buchla 200e be discussed?
> --
> john



From blandoon at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 18:42:37 2006
From: blandoon at gmail.com (Blandon Ray)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:42:37 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <04c301c60fc6$81f0c8e0$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020225550.24859@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <04c301c60fc6$81f0c8e0$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>
Message-ID: <b03b6d20601050942s203fca86q42d3967701a4f178@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Well, Ray Wilson "discovered" the LF442 and LF444. Here's his comment:
>     "... I am planning on re-evaluating all of my circuits with the LF444
> (low power op amp). These things are great. You get decent slew rates and
> much lower current consumption than with TL084s and TL082s. All of the
> circuits in the Sound Lab together draws less than 6mA."
> (
>
> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/SOUNDLABMINISYNTH/soundlab.html)
>

On a related topic - can anyone recommend any other good modern
ultra-low-power opamps? I've seen a few older circuits  (battery-powered
stuff like onboard guitar preamps and the like) designed around the Motorola
MC1776, but I keep thinking there must be a newer alternative with better
specs... would the LF441 be a good swap?

Thanks
Blandon
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From zifcak at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  5 19:33:28 2006
From: zifcak at hotmail.com (gregory zifcak)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 18:33:28 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] yamaha long shot
In-Reply-To: <43BCA66E.209@imt.net>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F13FD8B9D1F36BA14BDF08FD32E0@phx.gbl>

thanks for all the leads!

i'm sure it's not operator error because i'm the one who broke it by 
accidentally shorting something while i was adding trigger input circuitry. 
i'm kicking myself.

thanks again, things are looking up.
greg




From amokan at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 19:38:22 2006
From: amokan at gmail.com (amokan)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:38:22 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
Message-ID: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone recommend any 'quick and dirty' PLL examples related to music
circuits on the web?

thanks.
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From loscha at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 19:54:42 2006
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:54:42 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
In-Reply-To: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0601051054r6edf8bb8pd80ca11b4e992a55@mail.gmail.com>

A little unusual, but, the the Boss DF-2 uses a CD4046 to generate a sine
wave an octave or two above your input tone to simulare feedback
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Distortion%20Boost%20and%20Overdrive/BOSS%20DF2.pdf

 You should be able to Dx7 style FM with a couple PLLs, but, I might be
wrong on that one.

On 1/6/06, amokan <amokan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend any 'quick and dirty' PLL examples related to music
> circuits on the web?
>
> thanks.
>
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From mtechgroup at onemain.com  Thu Jan  5 19:57:03 2006
From: mtechgroup at onemain.com (MTG)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:57:03 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [sdiy] broken korg polysix
Message-ID: <4670063.1136487424271.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Seems to be the keyboard-of-the-week.  I have another acquaintance
trying to fix one (this one is a battery leak).  Here is a link for you:

http://www.angelfire.com/geek/srlabs/p6retro.html

Where are you located?

GB

PS.  Sorry if there is HTML on, I'm using Webmail today and I don't have
control over it.





From jmahoney at gate.net  Thu Jan  5 19:57:31 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:57:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] broken korg polysix
References: <s3bd0664.081@cityofjerseycity.com>
Message-ID: <0b3101c61229$e1da7f70$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

Start with the power supply. Getting correct voltages from it?
--
john


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Brickey" <BrickeyG at jcnj.org>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:43 AM
Subject: [sdiy] broken korg polysix


> Korg polysix question....
>
> A friend gave me broken polysix, apparently it was dropped hard and
stopped working. Despite the drop, I assumed the battery leak issue had
something to do with it not working, since my friend didn't even know there
was a battery. However, after opening it up I discovered it was serviced in
1994 and there is a new battery and no corrosion damage. The battery is
probably dead by now but not leaking. Can someone point me in the right
direction as to which board may be the source of the problem before I just
dive in. Only one led works after it was dropped, the far left one by the
octave knob. No sound at all, although there is a nice amplified pop when
the power is turned on or off.
>
> Thanks,
> GB
>
>



From mtechgroup at onemain.com  Thu Jan  5 19:58:04 2006
From: mtechgroup at onemain.com (MTG)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:58:04 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [sdiy] broken korg polysix
Message-ID: <30503295.1136487484402.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Sorry, that was the wrong link.  Try this:

http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/synth/korg/polysix/

GB




From dave at westphila.net  Thu Jan  5 19:59:20 2006
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 13:59:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
In-Reply-To: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43BD6C88.2080302@westphila.net>

Scott Gravenhorst designed this for the Paia Fatman

http://home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/4046pll.html

Dave Moylan

amokan wrote:

> Can anyone recommend any 'quick and dirty' PLL examples related to
> music circuits on the web?
>
> thanks.




From colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com  Thu Jan  5 20:18:29 2006
From: colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com (Colin Raffel)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:18:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
In-Reply-To: <17035a3d0601051054r6edf8bb8pd80ca11b4e992a55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com> <17035a3d0601051054r6edf8bb8pd80ca11b4e992a55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F48EF36-7DA7-43CF-8D65-F4B1F750A974@experimentalistsanonymous.com>

That one is a good example, but I personally like the slightly more  
complex one here:
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth% 
20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2% 
20Page%201.jpg
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth% 
20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2% 
20Page%202.jpg
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth% 
20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2% 
20Page%203.jpg
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth% 
20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2% 
20Page%204.jpg
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth% 
20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2% 
20Page%205.jpg
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth% 
20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2% 
20Page%206.jpg
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth% 
20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2% 
20Page%207.jpg

It is an article from a magazine, and it has no distortion circuit  
and lots of room for features and improvement.  I always thought it  
would be interesting to put a pulse wave into the trigger in so that  
it tracked at any rate-sort of like a sample-pitch-and-hold-it for a  
guitar or any instrument.

-Colin

On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Loscha wrote:

> A little unusual, but, the the Boss DF-2 uses a CD4046 to generate  
> a sine wave an octave or two above your input tone to simulare  
> feedback
> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Distortion% 
> 20Boost%20and%20Overdrive/BOSS%20DF2.pdf
>
>  You should be able to Dx7 style FM with a couple PLLs, but, I  
> might be wrong on that one.
>
> On 1/6/06, amokan <amokan at gmail.com> wrote: Can anyone recommend  
> any 'quick and dirty' PLL examples related to music circuits on the  
> web?
>
> thanks.
>



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu Jan  5 20:25:10 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:25:10 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] broken korg polysix
In-Reply-To: <s3bd0664.081@cityofjerseycity.com>
References: <s3bd0664.081@cityofjerseycity.com>
Message-ID: <20060105192510.GD10396@moo.sysabend.org>

On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 11:43:04AM -0500, Greg Brickey wrote:
> A friend gave me broken polysix, apparently it was dropped hard and stopped working. Despite the drop, I assumed the battery leak issue had something to do with it not working, since my friend didn't even know there was a battery. However, after opening it up I discovered it was serviced in 1994 and there is a new battery and no corrosion damage. The battery is probably dead by now but not leaking. Can someone point me in the right direction as to which board may be the source of the problem before I just dive in. Only one led works after it was dropped, the far left one by the octave knob. No sound at all, although there is a nice amplified pop when the power is turned on or off. 
> 

The Old Crow has the schematics up on his site :
http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/synth/korg/polysix/

If the battery board looks okay I'd definatly still do his battery mod and
put in a lithium button cell, dont forget that diode or it'll explode.

There are lots of connectors in the polysix going between boards.  I'd
reseat all of them and also all socketed ICs.  The next thing I'd check
after a fall is anything heavy, otherwise known as the power transformer.
Make sure it didnt come loose and wax something.  I cant remember off the
top of my head if the polysix transformer is mounted on the same bracket as
the power supply board, I dont think it is, but thats a common fall problem
too... a unit falls and the transformer bends the bracket breaking or
shorting the power supply board.

I'm sure you'll get other suggestions too.   Perhaps after you've looked all
the connectors over you should make sure the power supply is fully working,
then maybe pop the boards out and look for cracks.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From dave at westphila.net  Thu Jan  5 20:31:58 2006
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:31:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
In-Reply-To: <4F48EF36-7DA7-43CF-8D65-F4B1F750A974@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
References: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com> <17035a3d0601051054r6edf8bb8pd80ca11b4e992a55@mail.gmail.com> <4F48EF36-7DA7-43CF-8D65-F4B1F750A974@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
Message-ID: <43BD742E.1010502@westphila.net>

Yeah, I built this one on a protoboard.  A compressor in front helps a
lot, but still I didn't have good luck with it holding pitches.  Noise
from the guitar would gate the PLL tracking circuit and it would 'freak
out'.

Dave

Colin Raffel wrote:

> That one is a good example, but I personally like the slightly more 
> complex one here:
> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> 20Page%201.jpg
> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> 20Page%202.jpg
> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> 20Page%203.jpg
> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> 20Page%204.jpg
> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> 20Page%205.jpg
> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> 20Page%206.jpg
> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> 20Page%207.jpg
>
> It is an article from a magazine, and it has no distortion circuit 
> and lots of room for features and improvement.  I always thought it 
> would be interesting to put a pulse wave into the trigger in so that 
> it tracked at any rate-sort of like a sample-pitch-and-hold-it for a 
> guitar or any instrument.
>
> -Colin
>
> On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Loscha wrote:
>
>> A little unusual, but, the the Boss DF-2 uses a CD4046 to generate  a
>> sine wave an octave or two above your input tone to simulare  feedback
>> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Distortion%
>> 20Boost%20and%20Overdrive/BOSS%20DF2.pdf
>>
>>  You should be able to Dx7 style FM with a couple PLLs, but, I  might
>> be wrong on that one.
>>
>> On 1/6/06, amokan <amokan at gmail.com> wrote: Can anyone recommend  any
>> 'quick and dirty' PLL examples related to music circuits on the  web?
>>
>> thanks.
>>



From loscha at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 20:45:55 2006
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 06:45:55 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
In-Reply-To: <43BD742E.1010502@westphila.net>
References: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <17035a3d0601051054r6edf8bb8pd80ca11b4e992a55@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4F48EF36-7DA7-43CF-8D65-F4B1F750A974@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
	 <43BD742E.1010502@westphila.net>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0601051145q7a8b772ejddee3035e16bcf4f@mail.gmail.com>

That "Mini Synth" was a project in a series of educational projects "Dick
Smith Electronics" had in the mid/late 80s through to early 90s. They were
commonly available, and there would be several thousand of those in various
states of functionality across the country, I'm an Aussie, but, I've never
had the fortune to find one.
 I'm ready, though, cause I have the original book here. That's the only
muscial project in it, though, sadly :|
It is an interesting project, that displays a wide gamut of uses for the
4046. If used correctly, I'm sure the 4046 could be a secret weapon of
synthesis, it's got a high bang-per-buck ratio.

-ed

On 1/6/06, David Moylan <dave at westphila.net> wrote:
>
> Yeah, I built this one on a protoboard.  A compressor in front helps a
> lot, but still I didn't have good luck with it holding pitches.  Noise
> from the guitar would gate the PLL tracking circuit and it would 'freak
> out'.
>
> Dave
>
> Colin Raffel wrote:
>
> > That one is a good example, but I personally like the slightly more
> > complex one here:
> > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > 20Page%201.jpg
> > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > 20Page%202.jpg
> > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > 20Page%203.jpg
> > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > 20Page%204.jpg
> > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > 20Page%205.jpg
> > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > 20Page%206.jpg
> > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > 20Page%207.jpg
> >
> > It is an article from a magazine, and it has no distortion circuit
> > and lots of room for features and improvement.  I always thought it
> > would be interesting to put a pulse wave into the trigger in so that
> > it tracked at any rate-sort of like a sample-pitch-and-hold-it for a
> > guitar or any instrument.
> >
> > -Colin
> >
> > On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Loscha wrote:
> >
> >> A little unusual, but, the the Boss DF-2 uses a CD4046 to generate  a
> >> sine wave an octave or two above your input tone to simulare  feedback
> >> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Distortion%
> >> 20Boost%20and%20Overdrive/BOSS%20DF2.pdf
> >>
> >>  You should be able to Dx7 style FM with a couple PLLs, but, I  might
> >> be wrong on that one.
> >>
> >> On 1/6/06, amokan <amokan at gmail.com> wrote: Can anyone recommend  any
> >> 'quick and dirty' PLL examples related to music circuits on the  web?
> >>
> >> thanks.
> >>
>
>
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From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu Jan  5 21:07:39 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:07:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] MIDIed Speak'n'Spell
Message-ID: <20060105200739.GE10396@moo.sysabend.org>

Although I'm not really into the whole Bent Instrument thing, I am a sucker
for anything speech related ( which kinda explains my large collection of
speech chips I'm working on )...

http://www.highlyliquid.com/kits/midispeak/

Got the kit tuesday, all parts there, board is decent quality.  Got it
assembled and installed last night, doesnt work yet but I'm sure thats just
a short-term thing.  I'm looking forward to ROM mode B.  Probably be a lot
of glitches that I wont use but if I can hit the words in the ROM I'll be
happy.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From syntheticdan at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 21:38:40 2006
From: syntheticdan at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:38:40 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] schematics for diy D-Beam controller?
Message-ID: <fc3b811d0601051238y78d4be40gccc88ac33babd27d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone has built their own infrared controller liek the
Roland D-Beam?

If so, are their schematics/designs avaialble?

cheers,
     Danjel
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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  5 21:54:11 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 13:54:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] SUPER CA3280's
In-Reply-To: <20060105200739.GE10396@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20060105200739.GE10396@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060105133038.0342ac40@mail.earthlink.net>

Hi all --

I've been looking at the CA3280's I just bought from Futurlec.  Since they 
were so inexpensive, I was afraid that they might be some kind of 
rejects.  I characterized 20 of them using the same VCA-like test circuit 
that I used to look at a batch of chips obtained from Mouser a while back.

It turns out that the Harris chips from Futurlec are way better than the 
previous Intersil chips from Mouser.  For the Harris batch, the variation 
of offset with Iabc is about the same as the noise level, i.e., ~2mV.  For 
the Intersil batch the variation is up to 10x larger, although selected 
devices perform well.  The CA3080's I hve measured are all over the map, 
with variations in the 30mV - 100mV range not uncommon.

I also looked at the output linearity vs. Iabc for a couple of  the new 
chips.  The nonlinearity between 0 and 0.5mA is in the 0.5% - 0.8% 
range.  This is quite good, as I have measured nonlinearities up to 10% for 
LM13600 devices.

No guarantees that you will gst devices from the same batch, but at these 
prices ($1.30) everyone should stock up.

   Ian



From mikei at marketbridge.ca  Thu Jan  5 21:58:03 2006
From: mikei at marketbridge.ca (mikei at marketbridge.ca)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:58:03 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20060102081130.0278cb18@pop.west.cox.net> <005501c611ca$0081a440$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com>
Message-ID: <43BD885B.1416@marketbridge.ca>

Have had some stability issues with the MC3403 - it seems more prone to 
HF oscillation than most op amps with minor capacitive loading. Also a 
bit curious that the datasheet says "low crossover distortion" and lists 
the  value as "1 %" under the spec'd conditions. Sure, less than an 
LM324. 

What works very well for LM324 replacement is the Motorola MC34074 (and 
MC34072). Like a supercharged LM324, single supply, very fast, excellent 
output drive capability, low distortion.
Mike


From mikei at marketbridge.ca  Thu Jan  5 22:20:55 2006
From: mikei at marketbridge.ca (mikei at marketbridge.ca)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 16:20:55 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601020225550.24859@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
		 <04c301c60fc6$81f0c8e0$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST> <b03b6d20601050942s203fca86q42d3967701a4f178@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43BD8DB7.3DBC@marketbridge.ca>

Texas Instruments TLC251 TLC27L2 TLC27L4 are jellybean micropower, but 
run on single-supply, max +15V, so don't use with +/-15V. Ten uA per 
amplifier on the chip. Fairly slow (low GBWP and slew rate spec'd in 
V/millisecond), like most low-power op amps. OP290 good for precision 
micropower, but also very slow. All of above can be used with very low 
supply voltages.

Hard to beat the old TL061/TL062/TL064 at 200 uA/amplifier for jellybean 
 low-power applications where reasonable speed is required. 1 MHz GBWP 
and 3.5 V/uS slew rate, puts it between "741 audio performance" and 
"TL084 audio performance". It may be run at +/-15V, also can be run on 
lower voltages than the TL07x and TL08x families.
Mike


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Jan  5 23:15:11 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:15:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] schematics for diy D-Beam controller?
In-Reply-To: <fc3b811d0601051238y78d4be40gccc88ac33babd27d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060105221511.6367.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com>

http://members.tripod.com/urekarm/synth/download.html
  
  H^) harry

Danjel van Tijn <syntheticdan at gmail.com> wrote:  Hi there,
   
  I was wondering if anyone has built their own infrared controller liek the Roland D-Beam?
   
  If so, are their schematics/designs avaialble?
   
  cheers,
       Danjel
  

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From matthew.padden at metronet.co.uk  Thu Jan  5 23:16:55 2006
From: matthew.padden at metronet.co.uk (Matthew Padden)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:16:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] J-wires source in the UK?
Message-ID: <F3F95133-2083-48A1-BD47-9DCB387BD703@metronet.co.uk>

Hi,

I'm about to start a service on an Octave CAT SRM with several very  
tetchy key contacts. Does anyone know of a source for replacement J- 
wires in the UK to replace the worst ones? Or is there a wholesome  
method of rolling one's own?

Many thanks,
Matt

matthew.padden at metronet.co.uk

"Get crazy with the cheese whisk"        [Beck]

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From gil_we at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  5 23:41:35 2006
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:41:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <20060105224135.12780.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

unsubscribe


		
__________________________________________ 
Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. 
Just $16.99/mo. or less. 
dsl.yahoo.com 



From jays at aracnet.com  Fri Jan  6 00:30:12 2006
From: jays at aracnet.com (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 15:30:12 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Variacs and modular synths
In-Reply-To: <20060104172811.32512.qmail@web51604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGEEOKCFAA.jays@aracnet.com>

Daryl,

I wouldn't do this to anything that has a switching power supply or digital
gear. Good chance newer digital gear will have a switcher in it.

Linear power supplies can probably survive. Switchers are pretty complicated
relative to the linear ones and are tricky to design even today with all the
new chips and tools. If they aren't designed right or cheaped out then they
can do some nasty things. I've probably seen more of these blow up than any
other type circuit. In a couple of cases quite dramaticly.

Have fun and just say no to letting the smoke out of chips.
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of daryl groetsch
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 9:28 AM
To: synth-diy
Subject: [sdiy] Variacs and modular synths


I'm picking up a variac from a friend, going to wire
it up today. i want to experiment with slowly powering
up and powering down synth modules (and other stuff
too). i know my Blacet power supplies will try to keep
a steady voltage going to the modules, but i still
want to see what happens at lower volages. i like the
sound of turning off and on my synth and want to
control that--a switch just isn't enough. must admit i
was inspired by that NPR program on the Barrons and
their soundtrack for Forbidden Planet. they did this
and described it as something like bringing and taking
away life from the circuit.

so, if i keep it below 120 volts, i shouldn't run any
risk of damaging anything, right? anyone done similar
experiments?

thanks a lot,
Daryl


http://synthnoise.com/




__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com




From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Jan  6 00:55:20 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 16:55:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
Message-ID: <200601060055.k060tKp27665@linux7>

Alwyn Lloyd <zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>
>Well,
>Funnily enough, i have one of those that i bought as a kit..
>it worked and made some awesome noises, though it didn't seem to track
>accuratly on a guitar... though i didn't have a compressor in front, which
>would have probably improved it quite a bit..   still quite fun to play
>with though :)

Guitars are notorious for trashy output signals.  What really confuses a PLL
is the fact that a guitar signal can have more then 2 zero crossings per wave
cycle.  Also a PLL, especially a 4046, likes a rather large signal.  The 4046
data sheet says it's best if it's rail to rail.  A guitar signal loses
amplitude over time as it rings, so while it may track fairly well when the
string is first picked, eventually it will die out enough that the PLL won't
have enough to work with and will get confused by the zero crossing thing.  

A PLL can be a useful tool when used with appropriate signals, the output of a
VCO is very easy for a 4046 to track over many octaves.


>
>Cheers,
>Alwyn
>
>On Fri, 6 Jan 2006, Loscha wrote:
>
>> That "Mini Synth" was a project in a series of educational projects "Dick
>> Smith Electronics" had in the mid/late 80s through to early 90s. They were
>> commonly available, and there would be several thousand of those in various
>> states of functionality across the country, I'm an Aussie, but, I've never
>> had the fortune to find one.
>>  I'm ready, though, cause I have the original book here. That's the only
>> muscial project in it, though, sadly :|
>> It is an interesting project, that displays a wide gamut of uses for the
>> 4046. If used correctly, I'm sure the 4046 could be a secret weapon of
>> synthesis, it's got a high bang-per-buck ratio.
>>
>> -ed
>>
>> On 1/6/06, David Moylan <dave at westphila.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Yeah, I built this one on a protoboard.  A compressor in front helps a
>> > lot, but still I didn't have good luck with it holding pitches.  Noise
>> > from the guitar would gate the PLL tracking circuit and it would 'freak
>> > out'.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > Colin Raffel wrote:
>> >
>> > > That one is a good example, but I personally like the slightly more
>> > > complex one here:
>> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
>> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
>> > > 20Page%201.jpg
>> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
>> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
>> > > 20Page%202.jpg
>> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
>> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
>> > > 20Page%203.jpg
>> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
>> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
>> > > 20Page%204.jpg
>> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
>> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
>> > > 20Page%205.jpg
>> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
>> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
>> > > 20Page%206.jpg
>> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
>> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
>> > > 20Page%207.jpg
>> > >
>> > > It is an article from a magazine, and it has no distortion circuit
>> > > and lots of room for features and improvement.  I always thought it
>> > > would be interesting to put a pulse wave into the trigger in so that
>> > > it tracked at any rate-sort of like a sample-pitch-and-hold-it for a
>> > > guitar or any instrument.
>> > >
>> > > -Colin
>> > >
>> > > On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Loscha wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> A little unusual, but, the the Boss DF-2 uses a CD4046 to generate  a
>> > >> sine wave an octave or two above your input tone to simulare  feedback
>> > >> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Distortion%
>> > >> 20Boost%20and%20Overdrive/BOSS%20DF2.pdf
>> > >>
>> > >>  You should be able to Dx7 style FM with a couple PLLs, but, I  might
>> > >> be wrong on that one.
>> > >>
>> > >> On 1/6/06, amokan <amokan at gmail.com> wrote: Can anyone recommend  any
>> > >> 'quick and dirty' PLL examples related to music circuits on the  web?
>> > >>
>> > >> thanks.
>> > >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
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- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
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-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Fri Jan  6 01:19:05 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:19:05 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
Message-ID: <20060106001905.GF10396@moo.sysabend.org>

Are 6110's generally usefull to have around?

I found a stockpile of a little over 50 of them at $1.50ea and was thinking
of doing some hording if they were worthwhile.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au  Fri Jan  6 01:34:41 2006
From: zarquin at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (Alwyn Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 08:34:41 +0800 (WST)
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
In-Reply-To: <17035a3d0601051145q7a8b772ejddee3035e16bcf4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com>
 <17035a3d0601051054r6edf8bb8pd80ca11b4e992a55@mail.gmail.com>
 <4F48EF36-7DA7-43CF-8D65-F4B1F750A974@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
 <43BD742E.1010502@westphila.net> <17035a3d0601051145q7a8b772ejddee3035e16bcf4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0601060825340.13653@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>


Well,
Funnily enough, i have one of those that i bought as a kit..
it worked and made some awesome noises, though it didn't seem to track
accuratly on a guitar... though i didn't have a compressor in front, which
would have probably improved it quite a bit..   still quite fun to play
with though :)


Cheers,
Alwyn

On Fri, 6 Jan 2006, Loscha wrote:

> That "Mini Synth" was a project in a series of educational projects "Dick
> Smith Electronics" had in the mid/late 80s through to early 90s. They were
> commonly available, and there would be several thousand of those in various
> states of functionality across the country, I'm an Aussie, but, I've never
> had the fortune to find one.
>  I'm ready, though, cause I have the original book here. That's the only
> muscial project in it, though, sadly :|
> It is an interesting project, that displays a wide gamut of uses for the
> 4046. If used correctly, I'm sure the 4046 could be a secret weapon of
> synthesis, it's got a high bang-per-buck ratio.
>
> -ed
>
> On 1/6/06, David Moylan <dave at westphila.net> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, I built this one on a protoboard.  A compressor in front helps a
> > lot, but still I didn't have good luck with it holding pitches.  Noise
> > from the guitar would gate the PLL tracking circuit and it would 'freak
> > out'.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > Colin Raffel wrote:
> >
> > > That one is a good example, but I personally like the slightly more
> > > complex one here:
> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > > 20Page%201.jpg
> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > > 20Page%202.jpg
> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > > 20Page%203.jpg
> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > > 20Page%204.jpg
> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > > 20Page%205.jpg
> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > > 20Page%206.jpg
> > > http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Guitar%20Synth%
> > > 20and%20Misc%20Signal%20Shapers/Mini%20Synth%20like%20Super%20DF-2%
> > > 20Page%207.jpg
> > >
> > > It is an article from a magazine, and it has no distortion circuit
> > > and lots of room for features and improvement.  I always thought it
> > > would be interesting to put a pulse wave into the trigger in so that
> > > it tracked at any rate-sort of like a sample-pitch-and-hold-it for a
> > > guitar or any instrument.
> > >
> > > -Colin
> > >
> > > On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Loscha wrote:
> > >
> > >> A little unusual, but, the the Boss DF-2 uses a CD4046 to generate  a
> > >> sine wave an octave or two above your input tone to simulare  feedback
> > >> http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Distortion%
> > >> 20Boost%20and%20Overdrive/BOSS%20DF2.pdf
> > >>
> > >>  You should be able to Dx7 style FM with a couple PLLs, but, I  might
> > >> be wrong on that one.
> > >>
> > >> On 1/6/06, amokan <amokan at gmail.com> wrote: Can anyone recommend  any
> > >> 'quick and dirty' PLL examples related to music circuits on the  web?
> > >>
> > >> thanks.
> > >>
> >
> >
>



From controlvoltage at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 01:43:05 2006
From: controlvoltage at gmail.com (Amos)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 01:43:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
In-Reply-To: <20060106001905.GF10396@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20060106001905.GF10396@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <908a4c120601051643y384a7160l3cf0ac185d2ef3f7@mail.gmail.com>

I sent a reply off-list a second ago but it was incorrect....

this is in fact, I believe, the rare and for some reason highly sought-after
amplifier chip used in the tb303.

People building x0xb0x kits will probably be quite interested.

Including maybe me....

-Amos

On 1/6/06, Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
>
> Are 6110's generally usefull to have around?
>
> I found a stockpile of a little over 50 of them at $1.50ea and was
> thinking
> of doing some hording if they were worthwhile.
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
> - SynthGeek        -
> - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
> - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
> --------------------
>
>
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From julian at 22host24.com  Fri Jan  6 02:02:10 2006
From: julian at 22host24.com (Julian)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 01:02:10 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
References: <20060106001905.GF10396@moo.sysabend.org> <908a4c120601051643y384a7160l3cf0ac185d2ef3f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <081001c6125c$d2ed8330$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>

Aren't you thinking of the BA662A's, as found in both the 303, 101 etc.?

The 6110 is found in 303s, and the xbox, but its not on the scale of the 662 in terms of 'ive found a crate of these - ill sell them and go on holiday...'

Julian
Roland Tr-606 Modification @ www.numberofthebeast.org


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Amos 
  To: xyzzy at sysabend.org 
  Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
  Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 12:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [sdiy] BA6110's


  I sent a reply off-list a second ago but it was incorrect....

  this is in fact, I believe, the rare and for some reason highly sought-after amplifier chip used in the tb303.

  People building x0xb0x kits will probably be quite interested.

  Including maybe me....  

  -Amos


  On 1/6/06, Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
    Are 6110's generally usefull to have around?

    I found a stockpile of a little over 50 of them at $1.50ea and was thinking
    of doing some hording if they were worthwhile.

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
    - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
    - SynthGeek        -
    - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
    - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
    --------------------




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From scottnoanh at peoplepc.com  Fri Jan  6 02:03:55 2006
From: scottnoanh at peoplepc.com (scottnoanh at peoplepc.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:03:55 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
References: <f86a98e60601051038w249fe7d2ida54835b7cd139fc@mail.gmail.com>  <17035a3d0601051054r6edf8bb8pd80ca11b4e992a55@mail.gmail.com>  <4F48EF36-7DA7-43CF-8D65-F4B1F750A974@experimentalistsanonymous.com>  <43BD742E.1010502@westphila.net> <17035a3d0601051145q7a8b772ejddee3035e16bcf4f@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0601060825340.13653@mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <001101c6125d$1661bb40$767cf404@default>

I think one of the coolest apps of the 4046 is Grant Richter's Wogglebug.

#3 standard Wogglebug can be seen here:
http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/WoggleBug/WoggleBug.html



From fatjoebear at tmail.com  Fri Jan  6 02:32:22 2006
From: fatjoebear at tmail.com (Joseph Palermo)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:32:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
References: <1136510994.A6F7E95@dk12.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <1136511146.2304B285@bc12.dngr.org>

Just make sure they are not from the same bad batch that limur got. I 
can't remember the bad batch number, I'm sure somebody else out there 
knows. If not its in the x0xb0x forums.
E.O.J the Bum


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Fri Jan  6 03:16:14 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 18:16:14 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
In-Reply-To: <081001c6125c$d2ed8330$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
References: <20060106001905.GF10396@moo.sysabend.org> <908a4c120601051643y384a7160l3cf0ac185d2ef3f7@mail.gmail.com> <081001c6125c$d2ed8330$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <20060106021614.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>

On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 01:02:10AM -0000, Julian wrote:
>    Aren't you thinking of the BA662A's, as found in both the 303, 101
>    etc.?

No.  I'm definatly thinking of BA6110's.   As we all know, BA662's were made
by Rohm for Roland and were only available from Roland.  BA6110's are used
in the majority of 303 clones and were discontinued several years ago.  I'm
thinking of buying them to Have Around for repairs and assembling projects
that require them, not as any sort of investment.

A couple years ago a question came up about 6110 usefullness and it was
mentioned that its very simular to one half of a CA3280. ( note I said
Simular and not exactly-like, there were several differences to keep in mind
that can be looked up in the archives )


-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Fri Jan  6 03:16:33 2006
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 18:16:33 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
In-Reply-To: <081001c6125c$d2ed8330$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
References: <20060106001905.GF10396@moo.sysabend.org> <908a4c120601051643y384a7160l3cf0ac185d2ef3f7@mail.gmail.com> <081001c6125c$d2ed8330$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <43BDD301.5070302@imt.net>

I seem to recall that the 6110 could be modified in some way to work as 
a 662.   The BA662 was the predominate chip used in Roland Analog gear 
for vca circuits I believe. -Bob

Julian wrote:

> Aren't you thinking of the BA662A's, as found in both the 303, 101 etc.?
>  
> The 6110 is found in 303s, and the xbox, but its not on the scale of 
> the 662 in terms of 'ive found a crate of these - ill sell them and go 
> on holiday...'
>  
> Julian
> Roland Tr-606 Modification @ www.numberofthebeast.org 
> <http://www.numberofthebeast.org>
>  
>  
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Amos <mailto:controlvoltage at gmail.com>
>     *To:* xyzzy at sysabend.org <mailto:xyzzy at sysabend.org>
>     *Cc:* synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>     <mailto:synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>     *Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2006 12:43 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] BA6110's
>
>     I sent a reply off-list a second ago but it was incorrect....
>
>     this is in fact, I believe, the rare and for some reason highly
>     sought-after amplifier chip used in the tb303.
>
>     People building x0xb0x kits will probably be quite interested.
>
>     Including maybe me.... 
>
>     -Amos
>
>     On 1/6/06, *Tom Arnold* <xyzzy at sysabend.org
>     <mailto:xyzzy at sysabend.org>> wrote:
>
>         Are 6110's generally usefull to have around?
>
>         I found a stockpile of a little over 50 of them at $1.50ea and
>         was thinking
>         of doing some hording if they were worthwhile.
>
>         --
>         -----------------------------------------------------------------
>         - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>         - SynthGeek        -
>         - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>         - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>         --------------------
>
>


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Fri Jan  6 03:17:43 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 18:17:43 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
In-Reply-To: <1136511146.2304B285@bc12.dngr.org>
References: <1136510994.A6F7E95@dk12.dngr.org> <1136511146.2304B285@bc12.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <20060106021743.GI10396@moo.sysabend.org>

On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 08:32:22PM -0500, Joseph Palermo wrote:
> Just make sure they are not from the same bad batch that limur got. I 
> can't remember the bad batch number, I'm sure somebody else out there 
> knows. If not its in the x0xb0x forums.

Yes, that is one worry I have.  I am going to see if they will pull a chip
and check the lot number for me before I order.

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan  6 03:23:06 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 21:23:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Variacs and modular synths
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGEEOKCFAA.jays@aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <43BDD48A.758DD545@prodigy.net>

If you wanted to play with the supply... it would be better to make
a variable DC power supply that puts out the needed voltages, rather
than use a variac.

Probably you could make the main filter caps too small, and have
switches
to add more or less capacitance to get the 'growly' sound of 60Hz (more
likely
120Hz) modulating everything via the power supply ripple.

WELL designed modules may still disappoint... it the circuits use stable
on-card reference sources... the damn things might still work correctly.
That would be my goal in designing a module :^P

Jay is dead right about switchers... and that could go double for units
with displays, or CPUs etc.

Of course as Ian Pace of Deep Purple once said "I bought it I'll bloody
well boot it !"

H^) harry

Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
> 
> Daryl,
> 
> I wouldn't do this to anything that has a switching power supply or digital
> gear. Good chance newer digital gear will have a switcher in it.
> 
> Linear power supplies can probably survive. Switchers are pretty complicated
> relative to the linear ones and are tricky to design even today with all the
> new chips and tools. If they aren't designed right or cheaped out then they
> can do some nasty things. I've probably seen more of these blow up than any
> other type circuit. In a couple of cases quite dramaticly.
> 
> Have fun and just say no to letting the smoke out of chips.
> Jay
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of daryl groetsch
> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 9:28 AM
> To: synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] Variacs and modular synths
> 
> I'm picking up a variac from a friend, going to wire
> it up today. i want to experiment with slowly powering
> up and powering down synth modules (and other stuff
> too). i know my Blacet power supplies will try to keep
> a steady voltage going to the modules, but i still
> want to see what happens at lower volages. i like the
> sound of turning off and on my synth and want to
> control that--a switch just isn't enough. must admit i
> was inspired by that NPR program on the Barrons and
> their soundtrack for Forbidden Planet. they did this
> and described it as something like bringing and taking
> away life from the circuit.
> 
> so, if i keep it below 120 volts, i shouldn't run any
> risk of damaging anything, right? anyone done similar
> experiments?
> 
> thanks a lot,
> Daryl
> 
> http://synthnoise.com/
> 
> __________________________________________
> Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about.
> Just $16.99/mo. or less.
> dsl.yahoo.com


From MBEDTOM at aol.com  Fri Jan  6 03:48:51 2006
From: MBEDTOM at aol.com (MBEDTOM at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 21:48:51 EST
Subject: [sdiy] 4046 PLL Usage
Message-ID: <f.53b17267.30ef3493@aol.com>

Just an FYI...

There are different "flavors" of 4046 PLLs out there.  No, I am not referring 
to 74HC4046 versus CD4046 families.  I am referring to the fact that some 
4000-series PLL chips are different from others.  Specifically, some devices have 
inbuilt amplifiers for the SIG IN (normally, pin 14) and some do not.  Those 
devices having inbuilt amplifiers will function with AC coupled signals of 
fairly small amplitudes.  The devices lacking such an amplifier require much 
higher amplitude signals to function properly.

I have an assortment of 4046 devices from several manufacturers.  The 
Fairchild brand units, do not appear to have the amplifier on SIG IN as the data 
sheet says, for example.  Yes, the devices perform to data sheet specs but the 
amplifier, if there is one, is crippled.  Both RCA brand (really old chips!) and 
Motorola brand (not quite as old as the RCA) chips do have the amplifier.  
They reliably lock onto signals of 50 millivolts RMS or less.  Other brands can 
require a volt or more of signal to operate reliably.  Current data sheets spec 
minimum level signals far higher than what the devices really do.  I no 
longer have my original RCA datasheet but I am certain the stated input requirement 
is much less than what currently appears on any manufacturer's datasheet.

I did a commercial product some years ago that used a 4046 and I hadn't seen 
these amplifier-crippled parts.  Once in production, a second source for the 
Motorola 4046s was needed for lead-time reasons.  While qualifying other 
manufacturer's parts I discovered this anomaly.  If On Semiconductor is really 
making Motorola-mask parts, they do have the amplifier.  T.I. got the RCA masks (I 
believe) so they should have the amplifier as well.  Philips, Fairchild, and 
STM parts do not appear to have the amplifier in them.

As long as I am writing this tome, watch input risetimes.  The "good" 
amplifier devices also seem to tolerate much longer risetime signals than do 
"crippled" amplifier units.  What used to be in-spec signal levels and rise times are 
now out-of-spec for most devices.  Might I suggest sharpening up SIG IN 
signals with a fast comparator regardless of brand?  That should cure all the ills 
related to SIG IN.

The 4046 parts are good for 1000:1 lock ranges, and beyond, with a prudent 
choice of passive components.  These are very handy parts for synthesis, indeed. 
 As always, your mileage may vary.

Peace.
Tom Farrand
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan  6 03:51:08 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 21:51:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20060102081130.0278cb18@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <43BDDB1C.9A5C63AE@prodigy.net>

James Patchell wrote:

> And the LM324 is not really a single power supply opamp...you will find it
> actually works best from a +/- power supply....they call it single supply
> because the input common mode range includes the negative supply rail and
> the output can go down very close to the negative rail.  However...I
> generally never stock them any more.  I use TL0xx opamps everywhere for the
> most part.

woah how did that one slip by me..???   :^P

I'd sat the LM324 'is' a single supply opamp (primarily and
preferredly)...

It does have input common mode range down to 'ground' (thank you PNP
input
stage)... and the output can come within 200mV to 700mV of ground...
pretty damn close in most cases.

It does NOT have symmetrical current source / sink capability... a
hallmark
(imho) of almost every true 'dual supply' opamp.  I'd say that
disqualifies
the LM324 as a preferred dual supply opamp.

The LM324 has 'issues' on dual supply. I have had them latch up. 
(strangely...
after several years of working correctly in a circuit. replacing them
with
NOS parts from the same batch... also locked up... truth stranger than
fiction ?)

even as much as I generally detest the LM324... its my first choice if I
need
to do a real single supply project.

H^) harry


From dino.leone at stanford.edu  Fri Jan  6 03:55:18 2006
From: dino.leone at stanford.edu (Dino Leone)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 18:55:18 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin?
In-Reply-To: <063d01c611fc$5b5adcb0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
References: <063d01c611fc$5b5adcb0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <p0620070dbfe38990e262@[171.64.60.224]>

Julian,

You might want to have a look at the following website:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

I've been using Tom Gootee's "protocol" for a few boards (made about 
10), all double sided, about 4x6" big. After 1-2 more or less 
unsuccessful trials it now works beautifully and is just perfect!
Things to keep in mind when you consider doing PCBs yourself: you 
need a few things:
- bare copper boards (cheap)
- carbide drill bits (can be cheap... search around)
- drill press (I bought one for approx. $70)
- drill (for example a Dremel)
- etchant (I use the plain ferric chloride - very cheap (ca. $4/ 0.5L)
- "tinnit" (or similiar product) to tin plate the copper traces after etching
- Iron (...)


This means your initial cost will be between $150 and $200 depending....
Personally, I think it's worth to do it yourself, but it's kind of 
messy (both the etching and then the drilling).
One disadvantage of diy-pcbs: the holes will not be plated - I 
believe they are normally silver-plated when having boards made. This 
means you have to solder some of the components on both sides of the 
board. Via holes are a pain (I'm using resistor leads for this)!

For a program, check the archives. There are many options. I'm using 
the non-profit version of Eagle ($125) and I hate the size limit very 
much but I got used to the program and I'll probably stick with it 
for a while...

Hope this helps.
Dino





>Right, Its something ive wondered about for a long time, but never 
>made a start with, so im wondering - etching your own board: how 
>much of a black art is it?
>
>How many attempts is it likely to take before i get it right (i know 
>thats an open ended question, but, is it like 'wow - he got it to 
>work first time - amazing!' or what?)
>
>I have a friend who tried twice in the past, with no success, i 
>suspect that they were reasonably carefull, so thats what worries me 
>; )
>
>Is there some fool proof technique?  Im guessing that the variables 
>of temperature, time, and chemical makeup all affect things, so im 
>wondering if i can get a specific set of one make of chemicals / 
>boards and just follow the directions to the letter - ie to take out 
>any human skill on my behalf.
>
>I know some of you make boards all the time, but, as i say, im aware 
>my friend had no success, so it cant be that easy either.
>
>Any comments at all would be most appreciated.
>
>Again, im in England, so any suggested products need to be available here too.
>
>
>Failing all that, if i want to get a company to do it for me...
>
>To go from the schematic to pcb, i need to do the layout in some 
>program (any free and easy suggestions?) and upload the file to a 
>company (i know there have been threads in the past on companies), 
>but, having never used the layout software, im wondering how 
>automated it all is?  Ie. is there stuff i need to *know* about 
>board layout rather then just being careful with inputting data off 
>schematic?  (Will i have decisions to make)
>
>Basically, id like to start on this, whichever way, but id really 
>like some pointers as to where to begin.
>
>Cheers, Julian
>
>

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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  6 05:51:23 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 21:51:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <43BDDB1C.9A5C63AE@prodigy.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20060102081130.0278cb18@pop.west.cox.net>
 <43BDDB1C.9A5C63AE@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060105214329.0341bbb0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 07:51 PM 1/5/06, harrybissell wrote:

>I'd sat the LM324 'is' a single supply opamp (primarily and
>preferredly)...
>
>It does have input common mode range down to 'ground' (thank you PNP
>input
>stage)... and the output can come within 200mV to 700mV of ground...
>pretty damn close in most cases.

Harry, Jim, et al. --

I discovered a trick -- if the output has ~3k to ground, then it will come 
to within ~4mV of ground.  I used the LM324 for all the analog controller 
signals in my MIDI wind controller:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ijfritz/sos_circ.htm

   Ian 



From scott at rosetta.com  Fri Jan  6 07:57:49 2006
From: scott at rosetta.com (Scott K Warren)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 00:57:49 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Multi-pair audio cable & pcb connector?
Message-ID: <BFAF4C9F-7E81-11DA-A1E3-000A95840846@rosetta.com>

I'm going to use some Belden BL-1512C multi-pair snake cable (8 pairs 
individually shielded) to carry a bunch of line-level audio signals 
between a custom synth module I'm building and the back of the synth 
cabinet. Each conductor is 24 AWG. The cable run will be about six 
feet. Is this a bad idea for any reason? (I found a source selling this 
cable by the foot, so I don't have to buy a thousand dollar spool.)

If it's a reasonable idea, then what kind of connector should I use 
between the cable and the module's pcb? Is there a best way to assign 
conductors to connector pins (e.g. alternating signals and grounds like 
we do in digital ribbon cables)? What should I do with all the shields?

At the back of the cabinet will be audio jacks with a few more feet of 
cable plugged into them, terminating at various ordinary audio devices. 
Do I need to take any special precautions driving all this cable, or 
will a simple voltage follower per signal be ok?

Thanks,

skw



From tonyallgood at btinternet.com  Fri Jan  6 09:53:28 2006
From: tonyallgood at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:53:28 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
In-Reply-To: <20060106021614.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20060106001905.GF10396@moo.sysabend.org> <908a4c120601051643y384a7160l3cf0ac185d2ef3f7@mail.gmail.com> <081001c6125c$d2ed8330$8b4a9bd9@erzulie> <20060106021614.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <43BE3008.8020703@btinternet.com>

> BA6110's are used
> in the majority of 303 clones and were discontinued several years ago.

Well I used them in the Oakley TB3030, my own clone of the sound engine, 
but this is the only one I know of. I got the tip of trying out the Rohm 
device originally from Colin Fraser.

But as I have said before, the BA6110 is not a drop in replacement since 
the IC pins do different things. Also, the Iabc pin sits 1.2V above the 
negative rail unlike the BA662 which sits at 0.6V. This makes a lot of 
difference to the TB303 as it happens.

The TB3030 had two different layouts to cope with the differences 
between the 662 and 6110. The xobox does something similar I believe and 
uses some current mirror thingy to do the Iabc drive correction. I 
simply used an extra resistor.

I have noticed that some Analogue Solution's Roland clone stuff has the 
BA662 replaced with a BA6110.

That said the BA6110 is an excellent device. Low offset, high Gm and 
optional linearisation similar to the 3280. Shame it was discontinued. 
It is, however, very easy to kill. More than a mA out of its Iabc pin 
will kill it.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From jhaible at debitel.net  Fri Jan  6 12:04:42 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 12:04:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
References: <200601060055.k060tKp27665@linux7>
Message-ID: <002601c612b1$023050b0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

> Guitars are notorious for trashy output signals.  What really confuses a
PLL
> is the fact that a guitar signal can have more then 2 zero crossings per
wave
> cycle.

Zero crossings are more an indicator for formants than for the pitch of a
signal.
(At least I read that somewhere.)

As far as I can tell from a brief glance, that Boss circuit which was posted
yesterday
is looking for *peaks*, not zeroes. Looks very similar to the EMS method as
used
in the HiFli.

JH.



From chris at scp.de  Fri Jan  6 12:36:31 2006
From: chris at scp.de (ChristianH)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:36:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
In-Reply-To: <002601c612b1$023050b0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <200601060055.k060tKp27665@linux7> <002601c612b1$023050b0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <20060106123044.CB6C.CHRIS@scp.de>

On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 12:04:42 +0100 "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net> wrote:

> > Guitars are notorious for trashy output signals.  What really confuses a
> PLL
> > is the fact that a guitar signal can have more then 2 zero crossings per
> wave
> > cycle.
> 
> Zero crossings are more an indicator for formants than for the pitch of a
> signal.
> (At least I read that somewhere.)
> 
> As far as I can tell from a brief glance, that Boss circuit which was posted
> yesterday
> is looking for *peaks*, not zeroes. Looks very similar to the EMS method as
> used
> in the HiFli.
> 
> JH.



Wouldn't it be necessary to limit this to "real" peaks somehow?

Thinking of e.g. a low pass filtered square wave - formally, there are
lots of peaks due to ringing at each edge.

Christian



From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Fri Jan  6 12:50:30 2006
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Fri,  6 Jan 2006 22:50:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Duh. Major sequencer tuning, realization. :O
Message-ID: <20060106115030.0AA17245@stiletto.hotkey.net.au>


>12 semitones to an octave.  Right? ;)  12 steps in a rotary switch, for 1
>semitone PER.  Right?  ;) ;)

No, not exactly. C to C1 is 13 notes (positions), or twelve steps (clicks of
the rotary switch). If you want the oposite ends of the the rotary to be one
octave apart, you need 1 volt across twelve equal resistors, with the top
position and bottom position the ends of the resistor string.

>This does NOT mean, 12 resistors of the the same value around the rotary
>switch!  :O

Oh yes it does! Note that twelve resistors = 13 positions - 13 hookup points. 

>It took me a while to realize that the 1st and 12th switch positions are
>NOT, 1 octave (I.E. - C to C) 

This is true. Position 13 needs to be the top C

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au or sasami at cgs.synth.net
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From jhaible at debitel.net  Fri Jan  6 13:03:45 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 13:03:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
References: <200601060055.k060tKp27665@linux7> <002601c612b1$023050b0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <20060106123044.CB6C.CHRIS@scp.de>
Message-ID: <002b01c612b9$40258bd0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

> Wouldn't it be necessary to limit this to "real" peaks somehow?
> 
> Thinking of e.g. a low pass filtered square wave - formally, there are
> lots of peaks due to ringing at each edge.

After a positive peak, a flipflop is set, and only with a negative peak
of enough size, the flipflop is reset. No chance for ringing to trigger
anything, unless the ringing is larger than the fundamental. 
"Enough size" is determined with lossy peak detectors,
which "remember" the size of the previous peak.

This is just from memory - analyse that Boss circuit to see if it fits.

JH.


From controlvoltage at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 13:04:57 2006
From: controlvoltage at gmail.com (Amos)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 13:04:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
In-Reply-To: <43BE3008.8020703@btinternet.com>
References: <20060106001905.GF10396@moo.sysabend.org>
	 <908a4c120601051643y384a7160l3cf0ac185d2ef3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <081001c6125c$d2ed8330$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
	 <20060106021614.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
	 <43BE3008.8020703@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <908a4c120601060404l1484e72bx2151b0f72bbf6f4e@mail.gmail.com>

Ah-so... my original, off-list reply was correct, and then the
over-enthusiastic public reply was wrong.  So it goes!  At least I have
learned a thing or two from the subsequent replies...  thanks

On 1/6/06, Oakley Sound <tonyallgood at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > BA6110's are used
> > in the majority of 303 clones and were discontinued several years ago.
>
> Well I used them in the Oakley TB3030, my own clone of the sound engine,
> but this is the only one I know of. I got the tip of trying out the Rohm
> device originally from Colin Fraser.
>
> But as I have said before, the BA6110 is not a drop in replacement since
> the IC pins do different things. Also, the Iabc pin sits 1.2V above the
> negative rail unlike the BA662 which sits at 0.6V. This makes a lot of
> difference to the TB303 as it happens.
>
> The TB3030 had two different layouts to cope with the differences
> between the 662 and 6110. The xobox does something similar I believe and
> uses some current mirror thingy to do the Iabc drive correction. I
> simply used an extra resistor.
>
> I have noticed that some Analogue Solution's Roland clone stuff has the
> BA662 replaced with a BA6110.
>
> That said the BA6110 is an excellent device. Low offset, high Gm and
> optional linearisation similar to the 3280. Shame it was discontinued.
> It is, however, very easy to kill. More than a mA out of its Iabc pin
> will kill it.
>
> Tony
>
> www.oakleysound.com
>
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From raywilson at comcast.net  Fri Jan  6 13:16:30 2006
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:16:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
Message-ID: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>

How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 to 10. 
With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. I'm working 
on something new and I want to make it so that the parts are as available as 
possible.

1) LM3080
2) CA3080
3) CA3280
4) LM13600
5) LM13700
6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps.

Any feedback appreciated...

Thanks

Ray 



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  6 15:50:34 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 07:50:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
In-Reply-To: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
References: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060106073304.034370d0@mail.earthlink.net>

Hi Ray --

>How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 to 
>10. With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. I'm 
>working on something new and I want to make it so that the parts are as 
>available as possible.

This is pretty subjective and of course the situation is always dynamic.

>1) LM3080
>2) CA3080

These are exactly the same thing, as far as I know.  They are getting 
harder to find and more expensive as time goes by.  Rate as  6.

>3) CA3280

Futurelec has these, and at an incredibly low price.  Your 
price/performance ratio is the best with this option.  However it is pretty 
hard to find this chip anywhere else.  I'd say get as many of these as you 
will ever need and do it right now.  Right now rate as 8, but if Futerlec 
stops selling them, much lower.

>4) LM13600

Don't know of any current source.  Rate as 1.

>5) LM13700

This is under production in Japan, as I hear.  Also a fair amount of old 
stock seems available.  Rating: 10.

>6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps.

This is not too hard to do, but if you want performance comparable to 
CA3280, say, you need to use very well matched transistors (< 50uV).  So it 
depends on what you are doing and how much offset variation you can 
tolerate.  Rate at 7.

You should also note that the NE5517 is currently being produced by ON 
semi.  I got some from them directly.  Rating: 10.

   Ian 



From amajorel at teaser.fr  Fri Jan  6 16:07:01 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:07:01 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Good trader - Michael Ruberto
Message-ID: <20060106150700.GB15233@atc5.vermine.org>

Bought transistors from Michael Ruberto (com, hotmail,
frankentron).  He communicated clearly, packaged carefully and
shipped promptly. I would not hesitate to buy from him again.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Fri Jan  6 16:07:20 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:07:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Good trader - Jeffry Laan
Message-ID: <20060106150720.GC15233@atc5.vermine.org>

Sold transistors to Jeffry Laan (com, gmail, 8bit.sound). It's
been a smooth deal from my perspective and, I hope, from his.
Would not hesitate to deal with him again.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Fri Jan  6 16:07:47 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:07:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Good trader - Zdenek =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hodn?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?=FD?=
Message-ID: <20060106150747.GD15233@atc5.vermine.org>

Sold transistors to Zdenek Hodn? (cz, cas, biomed, hodny). We
discovered that trade between the Czech Republic and France isn't
as straightforward as we would have liked but we worked it out. I
would not hesitate to deal with him again.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Fri Jan  6 16:08:04 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:08:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Good trader - Dave Bradley a.k.a. Stooge Moe
Message-ID: <20060106150804.GE15233@atc5.vermine.org>

Bought one of Larry's protos from Dave Bradley a.k.a. Stooge Moe.
He communicated clearly, packaged carefully and shipped promptly.
I would not hesitate to buy from him again.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From alertme at hotmail.com  Fri Jan  6 16:09:24 2006
From: alertme at hotmail.com (Alert me)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 15:09:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Idea to design to prototype to Product question.
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601050557w794d9e8cle5d0ae10391377b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F10306150C9BB815D378DA7A9210@phx.gbl>

Hi Johannes,

Well, You have a point. But i didnt have that intention in mind. I was 
asking for guidance and tips on how to go on with the project rather than 
some one practically  helping me out with the project.

To rephrase my question.  Can someone , who has been involved with product 
development
from idea to actualisation / product realisation , give some serious 
pointers and tips.


regards
Alertme


>From: Johannes ?berg <johannes.oberg at gmail.com>
>To: Alert me <alertme at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Idea to design to prototype to Product question.
>Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:57:22 +0100
>
>So the basic idea here is that somebody else should construct, for free, a
>product for you to sell? And they don't get to know what any details about
>the device, since then they could "rip you off", right?
>
>Sounds a bit like a "friend" of mine :p
>
>/Janoch
>
>On 1/5/06, Alert me <alertme at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> > Sorry for the generic question.
> > I have a few ideas which i desperately want to try out to materialise 
>into
> > a
> > product.
> > Though i have electronics knowledge and am now working with computers (
> > support)
> > I am stuck in the idea of the product phase.
> > Now, i have documented all the requirements / features and how the 
>product
> > behaviour( functionality).
> > Since the product is going to have a Kind of (complex ) controller 
>circuit
> > Now, i am not sure, how to start.
> > Build the mechanical structure  > firmware > I/f with PC  > PC software
> > Please help with the basics. I am new in this field.
> > Groetjes  and Regards
> > Alertme
> >




From philmacnutt at mac.com  Fri Jan  6 16:33:08 2006
From: philmacnutt at mac.com (phil macnutt)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 09:33:08 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060106073304.034370d0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200601061539.k06FdCG9019285@dropmix>

Sorry to be the dunce, but can I use a CA3280 instead of a CA3080 in any
circuit?  Advantages?  Disadvantages?
I tried comparing datasheets, but I just did not understand all the details
enough to make a decision.

phil

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Ian Fritz
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:51 AM
To: Ray Wilson; Synth-Diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?

Hi Ray --

>How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 to 
>10. With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. I'm 
>working on something new and I want to make it so that the parts are as 
>available as possible.

This is pretty subjective and of course the situation is always dynamic.

>1) LM3080
>2) CA3080

These are exactly the same thing, as far as I know.  They are getting 
harder to find and more expensive as time goes by.  Rate as  6.

>3) CA3280

Futurelec has these, and at an incredibly low price.  Your 
price/performance ratio is the best with this option.  However it is pretty 
hard to find this chip anywhere else.  I'd say get as many of these as you 
will ever need and do it right now.  Right now rate as 8, but if Futerlec 
stops selling them, much lower.

>4) LM13600

Don't know of any current source.  Rate as 1.

>5) LM13700

This is under production in Japan, as I hear.  Also a fair amount of old 
stock seems available.  Rating: 10.

>6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps.

This is not too hard to do, but if you want performance comparable to 
CA3280, say, you need to use very well matched transistors (< 50uV).  So it 
depends on what you are doing and how much offset variation you can 
tolerate.  Rate at 7.

You should also note that the NE5517 is currently being produced by ON 
semi.  I got some from them directly.  Rating: 10.

   Ian 





From laxt57 at aol.com  Fri Jan  6 16:38:54 2006
From: laxt57 at aol.com (laxt57 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:38:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
In-Reply-To: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
References: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
Message-ID: <8C7E0EE6F6BF35D-958-7204@FWM-R07.sysops.aol.com>

 
 Hi Ray
 My take on this
 1. LM3080  =  CA3080? Right?
 2. CA3080  =  2 I have a stash but don't use this device for
                      any new projects
 3. CA3280  =  2 About the same as above, This is a shame.
 4. LM13600 = 1 Don't have any, don't know any good source.
 5. LM13700 = 8 or maybe 9 Not a problem as of now
 6. DIY         = Not a problem with thru-hole, I am struggling with SMD
                       I am not so young, my vision not so good and I need to
                       buy a stereo microscope
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Wilson <raywilson at comcast.net>
To: Synth-Diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:16:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?


How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 to 10. With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. I'm working on something new and I want to make it so that the parts are as available as possible. 
 
1) LM3080 
2) CA3080 
3) CA3280 
4) LM13600 
5) LM13700 
6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps. 
 
Any feedback appreciated... 
 
Thanks 
 
Ray  
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan  6 16:42:31 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 07:42:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060105214329.0341bbb0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20060106154231.44806.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes. You must have a really light load... but you can do it.
  My last project I got to under 200mV but my load is industrial
  and i have to sink some current from the load itself. I could
  use a lower value resistor, but that started to hurt me on the
  high side (the current source / sink not symmetrical).
  
  I was still proud... the unit I was driving said "0-10V" but
  it didn't go lower than 700mV
  
  Did everybody see the EDN design idea (might have been electonic
  design 'ideas for design' also) with the active current sink to being the
  LM324 down to ground. Gee... only a CA3046 and some other components.
  Doh... buy a real opamp. Well... OK if you were on Apollo 17, it might
  be a viable design
  
  H^) harry
  
  

Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net> wrote:  At 07:51 PM 1/5/06, harrybissell wrote:

>I'd sat the LM324 'is' a single supply opamp (primarily and
>preferredly)...
>
>It does have input common mode range down to 'ground' (thank you PNP
>input
>stage)... and the output can come within 200mV to 700mV of ground...
>pretty damn close in most cases.

Harry, Jim, et al. --

I discovered a trick -- if the output has ~3k to ground, then it will come 
to within ~4mV of ground.  I used the LM324 for all the analog controller 
signals in my MIDI wind controller:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ijfritz/sos_circ.htm

   Ian 



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From BrickeyG at jcnj.org  Fri Jan  6 16:56:32 2006
From: BrickeyG at jcnj.org (Greg Brickey)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:56:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] broken polysix
Message-ID: <s3be4cfe.075@cityofjerseycity.com>

Thanks for the tips, I'll be diving into that bad boy over the weekend.
GB




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan  6 17:04:51 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 08:04:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
In-Reply-To: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
Message-ID: <20060106160451.2834.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>

OK
  
  If you buy quantity... all are still easy to get. Prices of the CA3280
  are usually higher (futurlec has a really good price right now).
  
  I'd say
  
  LM3080  5
  CA3080  5
  CA3280  4
  LM13600 (aka NJM13600)  7
  LM13700 (aka NJM13700)  7 
  Roll your own - 2 (based on board space, matching etc...)\
  
  Also, the NE5517 / 5517A are availbale as well
  
  H^) harry

Ray Wilson <raywilson at comcast.net> wrote:  How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 to 10. 
With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. I'm working 
on something new and I want to make it so that the parts are as available as 
possible.

1) LM3080
2) CA3080
3) CA3280
4) LM13600
5) LM13700
6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps.

Any feedback appreciated...

Thanks

Ray 



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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan  6 17:10:09 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 08:10:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
In-Reply-To: <200601061539.k06FdCG9019285@dropmix>
Message-ID: <20060106161009.6949.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes you could use the CA3280 in place of the CA3080.
  
  The CA3280 is a dual
  
  The Gm bias is a little different, probably would not affect
  99% of designs.
  
  You could sub it directly and not activate the input linearizing
  diodes. If you DID activate the input diodes, signal levels
  could be higher / distortion and noise lower. Offset voltage is
  usually mich better on the CA3280
  
  CA3080 = Chevrolet
  CA3280 = Cadilliac
  
  H^) harry

phil macnutt <philmacnutt at mac.com> wrote:  Sorry to be the dunce, but can I use a CA3280 instead of a CA3080 in any
circuit?  Advantages?  Disadvantages?
I tried comparing datasheets, but I just did not understand all the details
enough to make a decision.

phil

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Ian Fritz
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:51 AM
To: Ray Wilson; Synth-Diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?

Hi Ray --

>How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 to 
>10. With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. I'm 
>working on something new and I want to make it so that the parts are as 
>available as possible.

This is pretty subjective and of course the situation is always dynamic.

>1) LM3080
>2) CA3080

These are exactly the same thing, as far as I know.  They are getting 
harder to find and more expensive as time goes by.  Rate as  6.

>3) CA3280

Futurelec has these, and at an incredibly low price.  Your 
price/performance ratio is the best with this option.  However it is pretty 
hard to find this chip anywhere else.  I'd say get as many of these as you 
will ever need and do it right now.  Right now rate as 8, but if Futerlec 
stops selling them, much lower.

>4) LM13600

Don't know of any current source.  Rate as 1.

>5) LM13700

This is under production in Japan, as I hear.  Also a fair amount of old 
stock seems available.  Rating: 10.

>6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps.

This is not too hard to do, but if you want performance comparable to 
CA3280, say, you need to use very well matched transistors (< 50uV).  So it 
depends on what you are doing and how much offset variation you can 
tolerate.  Rate at 7.

You should also note that the NE5517 is currently being produced by ON 
semi.  I got some from them directly.  Rating: 10.

   Ian 





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From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Fri Jan  6 17:13:16 2006
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:13:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
References: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog> <8C7E0EE6F6BF35D-958-7204@FWM-R07.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <008101c612dc$1af3d3d0$947ba8c0@HypoLuxa>

I personally would choose 13600 / 13700.  Both are available from Mouser:

NJM13600 - In Stock - $0.42 (US) Part number 513-NJM13600D
NJM13700 - In Stock - $0.72 (US) Part number 513-NJM13700D

Each of these is cheaper than a good matched transistor pair (for rolling 
your own OTAs), and still in production from New Japan Radio

Dave Magnuson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <laxt57 at aol.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?


>
> Hi Ray
> My take on this
> 1. LM3080  =  CA3080? Right?
> 2. CA3080  =  2 I have a stash but don't use this device for
>                      any new projects
> 3. CA3280  =  2 About the same as above, This is a shame.
> 4. LM13600 = 1 Don't have any, don't know any good source.
> 5. LM13700 = 8 or maybe 9 Not a problem as of now
> 6. DIY         = Not a problem with thru-hole, I am struggling with SMD
>                       I am not so young, my vision not so good and I need 
> to
>                       buy a stereo microscope
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Wilson <raywilson at comcast.net>
> To: Synth-Diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:16:30 -0700
> Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
>
>
> How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 to 
> 10. With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. I'm 
> working on something new and I want to make it so that the parts are as 
> available as possible.
>
> 1) LM3080
> 2) CA3080
> 3) CA3280
> 4) LM13600
> 5) LM13700
> 6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps.
>
> Any feedback appreciated...
>
> Thanks
>
> Ray
> 



From blacet at blacet.com  Fri Jan  6 17:14:52 2006
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:14:52 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
In-Reply-To: <8C7E0EE6F6BF35D-958-7204@FWM-R07.sysops.aol.com>
References: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog> <8C7E0EE6F6BF35D-958-7204@FWM-R07.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <43BE977C.6090804@blacet.com>

Mouser stocks the NJM13600 (513-NJM13600D).

laxt57 at aol.com wrote:

>  
>  Hi Ray
>  My take on this
>  1. LM3080  =  CA3080? Right?
>  2. CA3080  =  2 I have a stash but don't use this device for
>                       any new projects
>  3. CA3280  =  2 About the same as above, This is a shame.
>  4. LM13600 = 1 Don't have any, don't know any good source.
>  5. LM13700 = 8 or maybe 9 Not a problem as of now
>  6. DIY         = Not a problem with thru-hole, I am struggling with SMD
>                        I am not so young, my vision not so good and I 
> need to
>                        buy a stereo microscope
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Wilson <raywilson at comcast.net>
> To: Synth-Diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:16:30 -0700
> Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
>
> How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 
> to 10. With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. 
> I'm working on something new and I want to make it so that the parts 
> are as available as possible. 
>  
> 1) LM3080 
> 2) CA3080 
> 3) CA3280 
> 4) LM13600 
> 5) LM13700 
> 6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps. 
>  
> Any feedback appreciated... 
>  
> Thanks 
>  
> Ray  


-- 
Regards,
John Blacet

Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com

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From patchell at cox.net  Fri Jan  6 17:18:19 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:18:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
In-Reply-To: <200601061539.k06FdCG9019285@dropmix>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060106073304.034370d0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060106081520.028cf058@pop.west.cox.net>

In general...yes...but there are some circuits that use the CA3080 that the 
CA3280 will most likely not work in.  If you tie the Id pin to the negative 
rail, this will disable the linearizing diodes.  One example of a circuit 
that will most likely not work with the CA3280 is the VCA circuit on the 
ASM-1 board.  And if it does work...it would not be cost effective.

At 09:33 AM 1/6/2006 -0600, phil macnutt wrote:
>Sorry to be the dunce, but can I use a CA3280 instead of a CA3080 in any
>circuit?  Advantages?  Disadvantages?
>I tried comparing datasheets, but I just did not understand all the details
>enough to make a decision.
>
>phil
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Ian Fritz
>Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:51 AM
>To: Ray Wilson; Synth-Diy
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
>
>Hi Ray --
>
> >How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 to
> >10. With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. I'm
> >working on something new and I want to make it so that the parts are as
> >available as possible.
>
>This is pretty subjective and of course the situation is always dynamic.
>
> >1) LM3080
> >2) CA3080
>
>These are exactly the same thing, as far as I know.  They are getting
>harder to find and more expensive as time goes by.  Rate as  6.
>
> >3) CA3280
>
>Futurelec has these, and at an incredibly low price.  Your
>price/performance ratio is the best with this option.  However it is pretty
>hard to find this chip anywhere else.  I'd say get as many of these as you
>will ever need and do it right now.  Right now rate as 8, but if Futerlec
>stops selling them, much lower.
>
> >4) LM13600
>
>Don't know of any current source.  Rate as 1.
>
> >5) LM13700
>
>This is under production in Japan, as I hear.  Also a fair amount of old
>stock seems available.  Rating: 10.
>
> >6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps.
>
>This is not too hard to do, but if you want performance comparable to
>CA3280, say, you need to use very well matched transistors (< 50uV).  So it
>depends on what you are doing and how much offset variation you can
>tolerate.  Rate at 7.
>
>You should also note that the NE5517 is currently being produced by ON
>semi.  I got some from them directly.  Rating: 10.
>
>    Ian

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri Jan  6 17:25:43 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 16:25:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
In-Reply-To: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
References: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
Message-ID: <43BE9A07.6000300@burnit.co.uk>

IMO the LM/NJM 13700 would be the one to use in any new design.  But 
depending on the application there may be other options (for example the 
SSM2164).

Seb


Ray Wilson wrote:

> How hard do people perceive getting these parts to be on a scale of 1 
> to 10. With 1 being hard/expensive to 10 being easy/not-as-expensive. 
> I'm working on something new and I want to make it so that the parts 
> are as available as possible.
>
> 1) LM3080
> 2) CA3080
> 3) CA3280
> 4) LM13600
> 5) LM13700
> 6) Roll your own simple transconductance amp with transistors/op amps.
>
> Any feedback appreciated...
>
> Thanks
>
> Ray
>
>



From raywilson at comcast.net  Fri Jan  6 17:38:35 2006
From: raywilson at comcast.net (raywilson at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 16:38:35 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
Message-ID: <010620061638.19346.43BE9D0B0005DD0A00004B92220073483002019C040799970E9D@comcast.net>

Thanks to everyone for the great feedback. It looks like I will continue to live with the LM13700 for now which is inexpensive and very available even if it isn't as good a performer as the venerable CA3280.

I really appreciate the help this list provides.

Thanks

Ray
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From switchbladekey at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 17:44:49 2006
From: switchbladekey at gmail.com (S. P. W. )
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 10:44:49 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Fixing a jupiter 8
Message-ID: <7dde4aac0601060844t5a666cf8lbe29bd2c416f8053@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

A friend wants me to fix his Jupiter 8. It has sentimental value, so I
want to kind of know the situation going in. Anytime he hits the 8'th
voice, he gets nothing. Otherwise it works fine.

Looking at the service manual, I am thinking it is one of the module
boards, probaly the GH one? Is there a common failure mode so I can
just take the board and fix that rather than making him leave his
synth. It would make me less nervous to take the repaired board back &
test there, but if the problem is not common I will have to take it
home to run the full battery of tests.

I am new to synths but a long time electronic hobbyist and he knows
that. He is willing to give me a shot because he can't find anyone
else in town to do it, and he knows I'm honest and concientious.

thanks,

Steve

--
Darkness within darkness, The gateway to all understanding.
     - Lao Tzu



From dave at westphila.net  Fri Jan  6 18:06:09 2006
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:06:09 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PLL examples
In-Reply-To: <002b01c612b9$40258bd0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <200601060055.k060tKp27665@linux7> <002601c612b1$023050b0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <20060106123044.CB6C.CHRIS@scp.de> <002b01c612b9$40258bd0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <43BEA381.5070605@westphila.net>

I believe this is correct.  There are two comparators and two peak
followers, one for positive peaks and one for negative peaks.  The peak
followers basically set a varying threshhold to the comparators, so as
the signal increases the threshhold does as well as as it decays the
threshold drops.  The comparators outputs are connected to set/reset. 
I've seen this exact method in other pedal schematics as well.

I haven't played with this circuit too much (besides checking out the
OC-2 a bit), but if you wanted to I'd buy an Arion octave pedal which
appears to be a clone of the Boss and is $15 bucks right now on
Amazon.com.  then hack away.

Dave

JH. wrote:

>>Wouldn't it be necessary to limit this to "real" peaks somehow?
>>
>>Thinking of e.g. a low pass filtered square wave - formally, there are
>>lots of peaks due to ringing at each edge.
>>    
>>
>
>After a positive peak, a flipflop is set, and only with a negative peak
>of enough size, the flipflop is reset. No chance for ringing to trigger
>anything, unless the ringing is larger than the fundamental. 
>"Enough size" is determined with lossy peak detectors,
>which "remember" the size of the previous peak.
>
>This is just from memory - analyse that Boss circuit to see if it fits.
>
>JH.
>  
>



From 8bit.sound at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 18:09:34 2006
From: 8bit.sound at gmail.com (Jeffry Laan)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:09:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Good Trader, Andre Majorel
Message-ID: <9b2336270601060909j627457dl29a9e1b582d3568f@mail.gmail.com>

Andre is an excellent trader.
Good communications and is open for ideas.
Will deal with him in the future if he has more of those splendid offers!

Jeffry Laan aka Twin-X
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan  6 18:10:54 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 09:10:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] 4046 PLL Usage
In-Reply-To: <f.53b17267.30ef3493@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20060106171054.30410.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com>

I think it would be wrong to call the input stage 'amplifier'... buffer
  is probably better as it would not have any gain.
  
  The usual input voltage transition point should be 1/2Vdd... but the logic
  'high' and 'low' levels from that point are not guaranteed.
  
  You're lucky if you were really using  a 50mV signal... there is no guarantee
  but if it works, it works.
  
  The point of manufacturer differences is VERY important. Sometimes they
  make equivalent chips are ARE different.  One counter chip had an input
  with schmitt triggers on two inputs, which were then AND'ed. Another
  manufacturer used the AND gate first, and schmitt triggered the output.
  DUH... what good does the schmitt trigger do, if it is not the first
  stage.
  
  Anyone using the 4046 would be wise to use a comparator or other signal
  conditioner to guarantee logic levels first, before the signal input... and especially
  if using phase comparator II (which you all will :^)
  
  H^) harry

MBEDTOM at aol.com wrote:  Just an FYI...
  
There are different "flavors" of 4046 PLLs out there.  No, I  am not referring to 74HC4046 versus CD4046 families.  I am  referring to the fact that some 4000-series PLL chips are different  from others.  Specifically, some devices have inbuilt amplifiers  for the SIG IN (normally, pin 14) and some do not.  Those devices  having inbuilt amplifiers will function with AC coupled signals of  fairly small amplitudes.  The devices lacking such an amplifier  require much higher amplitude signals to function properly.
  
  I have an assortment of 4046 devices from several manufacturers.   The Fairchild brand units, do not appear to have the amplifier on SIG  IN as the data sheet says, for example.  Yes, the devices perform  to data sheet specs but the amplifier, if there is one, is  crippled.  Both RCA brand (really old chips!) and Motorola brand  (not quite as old as the RCA) chips do have the amplifier.  They  reliably lock onto signals of 50 millivolts RMS or less.  Other  brands can require a volt or more of signal to operate reliably.   Current data sheets spec minimum level signals far higher than what the  devices really do.  I no longer have my original RCA datasheet but  I am certain the stated input requirement is much less than what  currently appears on any manufacturer's datasheet.
  
  I did a commercial product some years ago that used a 4046 and I hadn't  seen these amplifier-crippled parts.  Once in production, a second  source for the Motorola 4046s was needed for lead-time reasons.   While qualifying other manufacturer's parts I discovered this  anomaly.  If On Semiconductor is really making Motorola-mask  parts, they do have the amplifier.  T.I. got the RCA masks (I  believe) so they should have the amplifier as well.  Philips,  Fairchild, and STM parts do not appear to have the amplifier in them.
  
  As long as I am writing this tome, watch input risetimes.  The  "good" amplifier devices also seem to tolerate much longer risetime  signals than do "crippled" amplifier units.  What used to be  in-spec signal levels and rise times are now out-of-spec for most  devices.  Might I suggest sharpening up SIG IN signals with a fast  comparator regardless of brand?  That should cure all the ills  related to SIG IN.
  
  The 4046 parts are good for 1000:1 lock ranges, and beyond, with a  prudent choice of passive components.  These are very handy parts  for synthesis, indeed.  As always, your mileage may vary.
  
  Peace.
  Tom Farrand
  

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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 20:00:25 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 14:00:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Duh. Major sequencer tuning, realization. :O
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601061100v13952658pff1591ccc2c2acfc@mail.gmail.com>

For those of you who've downloaded the 'Recording3.wav' file from my webpage
over the last couple of days - I presume at least some of you may've noticed
the (cough cough, ahem) 'tuning problem' in it?  ;)
I hadn't realized until AFTER I'd setup the sample on my webpage - that I
had 1 too many resistors, around my rotary switches. :O

12 semitones to an octave.  Right? ;)  12 steps in a rotary switch, for 1
semitone PER.  Right?  ;) ;)
This does NOT mean, 12 resistors of the the same value around the rotary
switch!  :O
It took me a while to realize that the 1st and 12th switch positions are
NOT, 1 octave (I.E. - C to C) as I had all 4 rotary switches set up for. :(
I removed the 1st resistor from the 1st rotary switch, to straighten out the
tuning, over 1 octave.  (From C to B).  Now I'm having a really weird
problem. :(
Every semi-tone from C to F is in tune, at the moment.  But the NEXT rotary
switch position gives G, instead of F#.  The next one after that, gives A,
instead of G.   And the 3rd position after that, almost gives the next C. :(
All 11 resistors are 121R 1%, and within 1R, all around.

Scratching my head.  Anyone have any ideas?

I'm going to check the 'keyboard interface' in Barry Klein's book, on my way
to work, to see what could gone wrong. :(  As well - try a different rotary
switch, for the same thing, tomorrow - in case the one I'm working with -
has a resistance problem.  (It IS, 10 years old.  that could be it. :( )

Thanks for any thoughts. :)


--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Fri Jan  6 20:10:32 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:10:32 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] How available are these parts to you?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060106073304.034370d0@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <002301c612bb$08c3c5b0$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog> <6.2.1.2.2.20060106073304.034370d0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20060106191032.GL10396@moo.sysabend.org>

On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 07:50:34AM -0700, Ian Fritz wrote:
> >3) CA3280
> 
> Futurelec has these, and at an incredibly low price.  Your 
> price/performance ratio is the best with this option.  However it is pretty 
> hard to find this chip anywhere else.  I'd say get as many of these as you 
> will ever need and do it right now.  Right now rate as 8, but if Futerlec 
> stops selling them, much lower.

These will get more expensive but at least not unobtanium because of
Rochester Electronics.   They can make perhaps another 250k of them from old
wafers, and then they'll have to go into production which will probably bump
the price up, but at least they wont dissapear.  I grabbed some from
Futerlec just to have around ( I've been on a semiconductor aquisition spree
this week... ).

> >4) LM13600
> 
> Don't know of any current source.  Rate as 1.

Same source at NJR13700's
http://semicon.njr.co.jp/njr/hp/productDetail.do?_isTopPage=false&_productId=135
Available from most distributers in the US. Prolly wanna make that a 10
also.

> >5) LM13700
> 
> This is under production in Japan, as I hear.  Also a fair amount of old 
> stock seems available.  Rating: 10.

LM13700N is still in Full Production from National also.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Fri Jan  6 20:32:36 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:32:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Futurelec
Message-ID: <20060106193236.GO10396@moo.sysabend.org>

I mention this only because people have been asking about Futurelec
responsiveness.

Placed an order Yesterday, received email confirmation with a tracking
number today.

Oh, if you order from them, look on the specials page.  They have some cute
little vu meters for $1.  You know thems going in a module :-)

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From peter at buzzclick-music.com  Fri Jan  6 21:27:07 2006
From: peter at buzzclick-music.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:27:07 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Ear News:  Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
Message-ID: <BFE4129B.2AFC4%peter@buzzclick-music.com>

Please excuse the x-postings.

Ladies and Gents,

Electro-Acoustic Research (EAR) is very excited to announce some big
changes:

Effective Jan 1, 2006 Analogue haven has become our U.S. dealer!  Both U.S.
and oversea's customers may now purchase EAR product directly from the AH
site.

To mark this occasion, Electro-Acoustic Research will be at the Analogue
Haven booth at the winter Namm show in Anaheim. It's booth 1787 ~ come by
and give us a high five and tweek the current and ever-expanding Plan B and
Livewire product line.

Plan B is also pleased to announce the following new products:

Model 14 Dual Voltage Processor
Model 15 Spectral Multiplexer
Model 19 VC Gate Delay
Model 23 Dual Analog Shift Register

To have a look, go to:

http://www.ear-group.com/planb_start.html

...and scroll down to the module listing menu.  Information on these new
products, as well as updates on the Models 18 and 18A  are online.

Both the Model 14 and Model 23, along with production units of the Model 18
Stereo Mixer and 18A Mixer Expander will be available as soon as March of
2006 and will be at our booth at NAMM.  Make sure you check out the photo's
of these four modules on their specific product listing page on the EAR site
- they are all there.

Have a fantastic 2006 and ....see you at NAMM!

- Peter Grenader



From peter at buzzclick-music.com  Fri Jan  6 21:32:53 2006
From: peter at buzzclick-music.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:32:53 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Ear News:  Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
In-Reply-To: <BFE4129B.2AFC4%peter@buzzclick-music.com>
Message-ID: <BFE413F5.2AFCB%peter@buzzclick-music.com>

D'oh!  

...that's a Model 16 Spectral Multiplexer,, not model 15!




From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Fri Jan  6 23:49:31 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 23:49:31 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Aaron's updated datasheet and ap note archive
In-Reply-To: <43BD885B.1416@marketbridge.ca>
Message-ID: <20060106224931.26857.qmail@web25515.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


--- mikei at marketbridge.ca skrev:

> Have had some stability issues with the MC3403 - it seems more prone to 
> HF oscillation than most op amps with minor capacitive loading. Also a 
> bit curious that the datasheet says "low crossover distortion" and lists 
> the  value as "1 %" under the spec'd conditions. Sure, less than an 
> LM324. 

The mc3403 and 3303 is actually a quad 741 with
"slightely hotrodded" specs............but by not much!

And beeing a bipolar it shuld stand capacitive loads
far better then early/middle age CMOS OP's anyway!

KD





From rutgervlek at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  7 00:06:30 2006
From: rutgervlek at hotmail.com (Rutger Vlek)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:06:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Ground = -15V ????
In-Reply-To: <43A9B5A1.1060905@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <BAY109-F16F57317716AA1809A4AB8D8210@phx.gbl>

Hello everyone,

I'm having a strange problem with a synth i'm building. It's just finished 
and works fine, but I found out that there's a voltage difference between 
the synths ground and the ground of my mixer. The difference is 15V!! That's 
exactly the voltage the powersupply of the synth is generating. Compared 
with the ground of other synths or the wall outlet ground the difference is 
also 15V! This means that connecting a synth to the external input i made on 
my synth makes that current is flowing between them. I don't like that... 
and I get lots of weird behavior when i make the connection.

I have a symetrical power supply in the synth that gives +15V and -15V. I'm 
using a power distribution board identical to the Oakley Sound Dizzy board. 
All panel grounds, board grounds and digital grounds come together on the 
distribution board and are connected to the power supply's 0V.

I am using a 3-pin mains power connector connected to a grounded wall 
outlet, but internally i'm not using this third pin. Should I?

Greetings,

Rutger




From dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 00:25:01 2006
From: dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com (dustin sedlacek)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 17:25:01 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
Message-ID: <b50a5d0a0601061525q2b55273en4f686b887f92582@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking for a good source for 1/8th patch cables. I would prefer to
build my own in true DIY fashion. I understand that the Blacet cable kit is
a bit "stiff" and not easiest to patch with.  Can someone suggest something
better and cheaper ? (no offence to John)

-Dustin
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From blacet at blacet.com  Sat Jan  7 00:46:06 2006
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 15:46:06 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0601061525q2b55273en4f686b887f92582@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601061525q2b55273en4f686b887f92582@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43BF013E.5050006@blacet.com>

The now discontinued colored cables were larger and less flexible than 
the black ones, which are about .150 diam and very flexible.

Plenty of black cable kits in stock.

dustin sedlacek wrote:

> I am looking for a good source for 1/8th patch cables. I would prefer 
> to build my own in true DIY fashion. I understand that the Blacet 
> cable kit is a bit "stiff" and not easiest to patch with.  Can someone 
> suggest something better and cheaper ? (no offence to John)
>
> -Dustin
>

-- 
Regards,
John Blacet

Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Sat Jan  7 00:47:43 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 15:47:43 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0601061525q2b55273en4f686b887f92582@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601061525q2b55273en4f686b887f92582@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060106234743.GQ10396@moo.sysabend.org>

On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 05:25:01PM -0600, dustin sedlacek wrote:
>    I am looking for a good source for 1/8th patch cables. I would prefer
>    to build my own in true DIY fashion. I understand that the Blacet
>    cable kit is a bit "stiff" and not easiest to patch with.  Can someone
>    suggest something better and cheaper ? (no offence to John)

I use Beldin RG174. A 500ft roll runs around $140 or less. I find it to be 
quite flexible, yet it has a really decent shield unlike some of the cheap
audio-style ( ratshack ) cables.  
For colour coding buy some variety packs of shrinktube, and for connectors I'm
using the Neutrik 1/8" plugs because they are built like tanks and cheap.

You can probably go even cheaper on the RG174.  I got mine off the shelf at
a local store.  I specify Beldin because I know its stranded center
conductor.  The solid-core stuff is bad news, really inflexible and will
break after repeated bends.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From rkmoore at memphis.edu  Sat Jan  7 01:11:50 2006
From: rkmoore at memphis.edu (rkmoore at memphis.edu)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:11:50 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
Message-ID: <28a827286d6e.286d6e28a827@memphis.edu>

All Electronics has some fairly low quality, but very inexpensive 3.5mm
cables for sale: $0.90 apiece in quantities greater than 10.  To me
building cables is tedious, especially with small connectors.  I never
found quality plugs cheap enough to justify building my own cables.  I
bought about 30 cables from all electronics about 6 months ago and
haven't had one fail yet.

 - Richard Moore

----- Original Message -----
From: dustin sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com>
Date: Friday, January 6, 2006 5:25 pm
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?

> I am looking for a good source for 1/8th patch cables. I would 
> prefer to
> build my own in true DIY fashion. I understand that the Blacet 
> cable kit is
> a bit "stiff" and not easiest to patch with.  Can someone suggest 
> somethingbetter and cheaper ? (no offence to John)
> 
> -Dustin
> 



From mtechgroup at onemain.com  Sat Jan  7 01:13:51 2006
From: mtechgroup at onemain.com (MTG)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:13:51 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [sdiy] Fixing a jupiter 8
Message-ID: <12534782.1136592831815.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>Looking at the service manual, I am thinking it is one of the module
>boards, probaly the GH one? Is there a common failure mode so I can
>just take the board and fix that rather than making him leave his
>synth. It would make me less nervous to take the repaired board back &
>test there, but if the problem is not common I will have to take it
>home to run the full battery of tests.

You are probably right with your guess.  I can't recall for sure, but
some of those synths either had LEDs on the inside indicating the
voice and/or there was a test mode to force the ordering.  In any
event you are going to want a known good channel to compare to,
as well as the power supplies, so take the whole thing.  Get your
hands on an oscilloscope.  It should be fairly easy to follow the 
audio path through the voice and see what's what.

GB





From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan  7 02:01:50 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 01:01:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ground = -15V ????
In-Reply-To: <BAY109-F16F57317716AA1809A4AB8D8210@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY109-F16F57317716AA1809A4AB8D8210@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43BF12FE.1030100@burnit.co.uk>

Could it be that you are connecting the 15V in the power supply of your 
new synth to mains earth?

Seb


Rutger Vlek wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm having a strange problem with a synth i'm building. It's just 
> finished and works fine, but I found out that there's a voltage 
> difference between the synths ground and the ground of my mixer. The 
> difference is 15V!! That's exactly the voltage the powersupply of the 
> synth is generating. Compared with the ground of other synths or the 
> wall outlet ground the difference is also 15V! This means that 
> connecting a synth to the external input i made on my synth makes that 
> current is flowing between them. I don't like that... and I get lots 
> of weird behavior when i make the connection.
>
> I have a symetrical power supply in the synth that gives +15V and 
> -15V. I'm using a power distribution board identical to the Oakley 
> Sound Dizzy board. All panel grounds, board grounds and digital 
> grounds come together on the distribution board and are connected to 
> the power supply's 0V.
>
> I am using a 3-pin mains power connector connected to a grounded wall 
> outlet, but internally i'm not using this third pin. Should I?
>
> Greetings,
>
> Rutger
>
>
>
>



From rdd at rddavis.org  Sat Jan  7 02:03:37 2006
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: 6 Jan 2006 20:03:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
In-Reply-To: <28a827286d6e.286d6e28a827@memphis.edu>
References: <28a827286d6e.286d6e28a827@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <20060107010337.GD16753@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe rkmoore at memphis.edu, from writings of Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at
06:11:50PM -0600:
> All Electronics has some fairly low quality, but very inexpensive 3.5mm
> cables for sale: $0.90 apiece in quantities greater than 10.  To me
> building cables is tedious, especially with small connectors.  I never
> found quality plugs cheap enough to justify building my own cables.  I

Eh?  Have you found something wrong with Switchcraft or Neutrik
connectors?  I rarely use miniature connectors, but I find most
pre-made cables, these days anyway, to be ridiculously overpriced.  I
mean, 28 bucks in a local hardware store for a 12-foot "studio
quality" (hah!) set of cables, with RCA plugs, featuring molded plugs
that can't be taken apart and resoldered.  I'll just buy some 1/4" 90%
shielded cable and whatever type of connectors I need from Neutrik or
Switchcraft.  Yes, making cables can be a major pain, and seems like a
waste of time, but, it's often worth it since one gets the
dependability and repairability that one desires.

> bought about 30 cables from all electronics about 6 months ago and
> haven't had one fail yet.

Six months?  What happens with them within six years? :-)

-- 
   R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other animals: an
www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature & her
     Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify such
   Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat Jan  7 02:46:36 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 12:46:36 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
References: <28a827286d6e.286d6e28a827@memphis.edu> <20060107010337.GD16753@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <000801c6132c$329a4e60$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

> > bought about 30 cables from all electronics about 6 months ago and
> > haven't had one fail yet.
> Six months?  What happens with them within six years? :-)
>
Something that makes a real difference, is how gently people put their 
plugs in & out (and how they use switches &  sliders, for that matter).
I was astonished at how 'roughly' (in my opinion) a visiting EE
used the controls on my scope. I guess it is a personality thing (like 
some people always slam doors). 
I only ever got one lot of cables in my life that were 'unuseably' crap.
And in all fairness, taht was from a store that threw them out.
(no, you havn't heard of the brand).

paul perry Melbourne Australia



From lbuppii at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  7 03:34:09 2006
From: lbuppii at hotmail.com (Lewis Bupp)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:34:09 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ? MOUSER
In-Reply-To: <20060107010337.GD16753@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <BAY102-F4A73A3D59D28860E8C684B4200@phx.gbl>

Mouser Electronics has some decent and fairly inexpensive cables.


>From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd at rddavis.org>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
>Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 20:03:37 -0500
>
>Quothe rkmoore at memphis.edu, from writings of Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at
>06:11:50PM -0600:
> > All Electronics has some fairly low quality, but very inexpensive 3.5mm
> > cables for sale: $0.90 apiece in quantities greater than 10.  To me
> > building cables is tedious, especially with small connectors.  I never
> > found quality plugs cheap enough to justify building my own cables.  I
>
>Eh?  Have you found something wrong with Switchcraft or Neutrik
>connectors?  I rarely use miniature connectors, but I find most
>pre-made cables, these days anyway, to be ridiculously overpriced.  I
>mean, 28 bucks in a local hardware store for a 12-foot "studio
>quality" (hah!) set of cables, with RCA plugs, featuring molded plugs
>that can't be taken apart and resoldered.  I'll just buy some 1/4" 90%
>shielded cable and whatever type of connectors I need from Neutrik or
>Switchcraft.  Yes, making cables can be a major pain, and seems like a
>waste of time, but, it's often worth it since one gets the
>dependability and repairability that one desires.
>
> > bought about 30 cables from all electronics about 6 months ago and
> > haven't had one fail yet.
>
>Six months?  What happens with them within six years? :-)
>
>--
>    R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other 
>animals: an
>www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
>her
>      Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify 
>such
>    Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human 
>cruelty.




From moogah at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 03:53:34 2006
From: moogah at gmail.com (Jeff Farr)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 21:53:34 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] BA6110's
In-Reply-To: <908a4c120601060404l1484e72bx2151b0f72bbf6f4e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060106001905.GF10396@moo.sysabend.org>
	 <908a4c120601051643y384a7160l3cf0ac185d2ef3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <081001c6125c$d2ed8330$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
	 <20060106021614.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
	 <43BE3008.8020703@btinternet.com>
	 <908a4c120601060404l1484e72bx2151b0f72bbf6f4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78f89520601061853q20bd030ap1ae9c068f196d902@mail.gmail.com>

x0x-er's will only be interested if it's the SIL package varity and
not from the batch "420 178".  If it meets these two requirements I'll
buy afew off ya (unless you want to share where you founf 'em).

On 1/6/06, Amos <controlvoltage at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah-so... my original, off-list reply was correct, and then the
> over-enthusiastic public reply was wrong.  So it goes!  At least I have
> learned a thing or two from the subsequent replies...  thanks
>
>
> On 1/6/06, Oakley Sound <tonyallgood at btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > BA6110's are used
> > > in the majority of 303 clones and were discontinued several years ago.
> >
> > Well I used them in the Oakley TB3030, my own clone of the sound engine,
> > but this is the only one I know of. I got the tip of trying out the Rohm
> > device originally from Colin Fraser.
> >
> > But as I have said before, the BA6110 is not a drop in replacement since
> > the IC pins do different things. Also, the Iabc pin sits 1.2V above the
> > negative rail unlike the BA662 which sits at 0.6V. This makes a lot of
> > difference to the TB303 as it happens.
> >
> > The TB3030 had two different layouts to cope with the differences
> > between the 662 and 6110. The xobox does something similar I believe and
> > uses some current mirror thingy to do the Iabc drive correction. I
> > simply used an extra resistor.
> >
> > I have noticed that some Analogue Solution's Roland clone stuff has the
> > BA662 replaced with a BA6110.
> >
> > That said the BA6110 is an excellent device. Low offset, high Gm and
> > optional linearisation similar to the 3280. Shame it was discontinued.
> > It is, however, very easy to kill. More than a mA out of its Iabc pin
> > will kill it.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > www.oakleysound.com
> >
>
>



From jloffink at austin.rr.com  Sat Jan  7 04:10:29 2006
From: jloffink at austin.rr.com (John Loffink)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 21:10:29 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ? ALLTRONICS
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F4A73A3D59D28860E8C684B4200@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <013901c61337$e9ca5c00$6400a8c0@john>

Try these from Alltronics.  They are stereo 3.5 mm cables, but work just
fine as mono patch cables.  The ring connection isn't used.

http://www.alltronics.com/wire_and_cable1.htm

21W001    Stereo  Jumper Cable 1 foot black  49 cents each
97W005    Stereo  Jumper Cable 3 foot beige  59 cents each

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com






From rdd at rddavis.org  Sat Jan  7 05:14:12 2006
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: 6 Jan 2006 23:14:12 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
In-Reply-To: <000801c6132c$329a4e60$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
References: <28a827286d6e.286d6e28a827@memphis.edu> <20060107010337.GD16753@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <000801c6132c$329a4e60$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <20060107041412.GG16753@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Paul Perry, from writings of Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 12:46:36PM +1100:
> Something that makes a real difference, is how gently people put their 
> plugs in & out (and how they use switches &  sliders, for that matter).

I'm very careful with how I use cables, and always try to avoid
pulling on the cables themselves, rather than the connectors,
but... there are cases where clearances are sometimes too tight, where
there's no way to get a good grip on the connectors and the connection
itself is a little too tight due to the plugs or jacks not being made
right... a bad combination that may put a little strain on a cable,
which one can then repair if moulded connectors are not used.  Still,
I do not like to pull on cables... it's a bad thing to do.

Also, some cables (notably those from the place named "R____ S____
which is rumored to advertise, "You've got questions, we've got blank
stares"), no matter how carefully handled, sometimes fail from just
the cables being flexed occasionally over a period of time.  I do have
a few ancient RS cables, however, which have survived the test of
time, which are useful for a few non-critical things once in a while,
but never, ever, in any part of a signal path where they could cause a
power amp to send a very large signal to the speakers if they fail
when accidentally touched!

> I was astonished at how 'roughly' (in my opinion) a visiting EE
> used the controls on my scope. I guess it is a personality thing (like 
> some people always slam doors). 

That's always a bad thing, never a good way to treat anything.  Too
destructive.  I trust that you've stocked up on moustraps since then...

You: Please reach around the back of that scope and get me [some tool]
that I left back there.  Just reach for it gently.  Be careful.

Visiting EE: Ok. [quickly and recklessly reaches back there] SNAP!
OUCH!  Oooohhh...  Why didn't you tell me there was a, a, mouse trap
back there?

You:  Well, if you had been more careful and not so reckless, your
fingers wouldn't have encountered that.  Please be more careful when
you're here!

If anyone treated my equipment like that, they'd find themselves
ushered outside rather quickly and would receive a bill for costs
associated with future premature equipment failure due to their
carelessness.

> I only ever got one lot of cables in my life that were 'unuseably' crap.
> And in all fairness, that was from a store that threw them out.

Interesting, but it's good to hear that you've had such great luck with
cables. :-)

-- 
   R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other animals: an
www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature & her
     Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify such
   Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.


From MBEDTOM at aol.com  Sat Jan  7 05:37:39 2006
From: MBEDTOM at aol.com (MBEDTOM at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 23:37:39 EST
Subject: [sdiy] 4046 PLL Usage
Message-ID: <207.10807128.30f09f93@aol.com>

Yeah, 100% of the Motorola-brand 4046s worked on 50mv!  I tested 2 tubes of 
them (50 units) and all were okee-dokee on 50mv.

I wasn't worried about the change in amplitude for the product design I did.  
I ended up approving all the popular manufacturer's parts and simply changed 
the production spec for a level adjustment elsewhere in the system.  I had 
spec'd 200mv and there was plenty of reserve to simply have the level jacked up 
higher.  Cake.  Once in a while one gets to thumb their nose at Murphy ... but 
not very often!  Now the time I misread a spec sheet and put in a part that 
was 1.5 orders of magnitude too slow ... uh, never mind.  That didn't happen.  
It was only a dream.  Really.  Didn't happen! <grin>

Peace.
Tom Farrand


In a message dated 1/6/2006 11:11:04 AM Central Standard Time, 
harrybissell at prodigy.net writes:

> I think it would be wrong to call the input stage 'amplifier'... buffer
> is probably better as it would not have any gain.
> 
> The usual input voltage transition point should be 1/2Vdd... but the logic
> 'high' and 'low' levels from that point are not guaranteed.
> 
> You're lucky if you were really using  a 50mV signal... there is no 
> guarantee
> but if it works, it works.
> 
> The point of manufacturer differences is VERY important. Sometimes they
> make equivalent chips are ARE different.  One counter chip had an input
> with schmitt triggers on two inputs, which were then AND'ed. Another
> manufacturer used the AND gate first, and schmitt triggered the output.
> DUH... what good does the schmitt trigger do, if it is not the first
> stage.
> 
> Anyone using the 4046 would be wise to use a comparator or other signal
> conditioner to guarantee logic levels first, before the signal input... and 
> especially
> if using phase comparator II (which you all will :^)
> 
> H^) harry
> 
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From frankentron at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  7 06:11:25 2006
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:11:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
In-Reply-To: <BFE4129B.2AFC4%peter@buzzclick-music.com>
Message-ID: <BAY115-F5E9C48AC4E0DA07C04691B3200@phx.gbl>

I love what you guys are doing! The modules you are creating are original 
and refreshing and I would love to add some to my system. But, at an average 
price of 234.75/module it's just not a dream come true for me. I would be 
quite happy to buy some lesser expensive kit modules. Any plans for this?

M. A. Ruberto


>From: Peter Grenader <peter at buzzclick-music.com>
>To: <EAR_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>, 
><PLAN_B_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>,        <analogue at hyperreal.org>, 
><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>,        <Doepfer_a100 at yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [sdiy] Ear News:  Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
>Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:27:07 -0800
>
>Please excuse the x-postings.
>
>Ladies and Gents,
>
>Electro-Acoustic Research (EAR) is very excited to announce some big
>changes:
>
>Effective Jan 1, 2006 Analogue haven has become our U.S. dealer!  Both U.S.
>and oversea's customers may now purchase EAR product directly from the AH
>site.
>
>To mark this occasion, Electro-Acoustic Research will be at the Analogue
>Haven booth at the winter Namm show in Anaheim. It's booth 1787 ~ come by
>and give us a high five and tweek the current and ever-expanding Plan B and
>Livewire product line.
>
>Plan B is also pleased to announce the following new products:
>
>Model 14 Dual Voltage Processor
>Model 15 Spectral Multiplexer
>Model 19 VC Gate Delay
>Model 23 Dual Analog Shift Register
>
>To have a look, go to:
>
>http://www.ear-group.com/planb_start.html
>
>...and scroll down to the module listing menu.  Information on these new
>products, as well as updates on the Models 18 and 18A  are online.
>
>Both the Model 14 and Model 23, along with production units of the Model 18
>Stereo Mixer and 18A Mixer Expander will be available as soon as March of
>2006 and will be at our booth at NAMM.  Make sure you check out the photo's
>of these four modules on their specific product listing page on the EAR 
>site
>- they are all there.
>
>Have a fantastic 2006 and ....see you at NAMM!
>
>- Peter Grenader
>




From frankentron at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  7 06:18:25 2006
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:18:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Futurelec
In-Reply-To: <20060106193236.GO10396@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <BAY115-F26F673DFC45F8057F799DEB3200@phx.gbl>

Order all you like from them folks, just don't cancel an order because you 
WILL NOT GET YOUR MONEY BACK. Can I clarify this even more?

M. A. Ruberto

PS: if you do cancel an order good luck getting a person on the phone. Don't 
waste your time, call your credit company. :)

>From: Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org>
>Reply-To: xyzzy at sysabend.org
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] Futurelec
>Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:32:36 -0800
>
>I mention this only because people have been asking about Futurelec
>responsiveness.
>
>Placed an order Yesterday, received email confirmation with a tracking
>number today.
>
>Oh, if you order from them, look on the specials page.  They have some cute
>little vu meters for $1.  You know thems going in a module :-)
>
>--
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>  - SynthGeek        -
>  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>  --------------------
>




From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sat Jan  7 06:19:37 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 00:19:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-F5E9C48AC4E0DA07C04691B3200@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY115-F5E9C48AC4E0DA07C04691B3200@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601070019280.19435@yamsrv1.ece.gatech.edu>


Kits kits! Yes yes yes! Kitsa!

- Aaron


On Sat, 7 Jan 2006, Michael Ruberto wrote:

> I love what you guys are doing! The modules you are creating are original and 
> refreshing and I would love to add some to my system. But, at an average 
> price of 234.75/module it's just not a dream come true for me. I would be 
> quite happy to buy some lesser expensive kit modules. Any plans for this?
>
> M. A. Ruberto
>
>
>> From: Peter Grenader <peter at buzzclick-music.com>
>> To: <EAR_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>, 
>> <PLAN_B_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>,        <analogue at hyperreal.org>, 
>> <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>,        <Doepfer_a100 at yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [sdiy] Ear News:  Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
>> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:27:07 -0800
>> 
>> Please excuse the x-postings.
>> 
>> Ladies and Gents,
>> 
>> Electro-Acoustic Research (EAR) is very excited to announce some big
>> changes:
>> 
>> Effective Jan 1, 2006 Analogue haven has become our U.S. dealer!  Both 
>> U.S.
>> and oversea's customers may now purchase EAR product directly from the AH
>> site.
>> 
>> To mark this occasion, Electro-Acoustic Research will be at the Analogue
>> Haven booth at the winter Namm show in Anaheim. It's booth 1787 ~ come by
>> and give us a high five and tweek the current and ever-expanding Plan B 
>> and
>> Livewire product line.
>> 
>> Plan B is also pleased to announce the following new products:
>> 
>> Model 14 Dual Voltage Processor
>> Model 15 Spectral Multiplexer
>> Model 19 VC Gate Delay
>> Model 23 Dual Analog Shift Register
>> 
>> To have a look, go to:
>> 
>> http://www.ear-group.com/planb_start.html
>> 
>> ...and scroll down to the module listing menu.  Information on these new
>> products, as well as updates on the Models 18 and 18A  are online.
>> 
>> Both the Model 14 and Model 23, along with production units of the Model 
>> 18
>> Stereo Mixer and 18A Mixer Expander will be available as soon as March of
>> 2006 and will be at our booth at NAMM.  Make sure you check out the 
>> photo's
>> of these four modules on their specific product listing page on the EAR 
>> site
>> - they are all there.
>> 
>> Have a fantastic 2006 and ....see you at NAMM!
>> 
>> - Peter Grenader
>> 
>
>
>


From frankentron at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  7 06:20:30 2006
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:20:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-F5E9C48AC4E0DA07C04691B3200@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY115-F20A1B34F44A36840C0B2BFB3200@phx.gbl>

Please disregard my last message on this. I sent it to list by accident. 
Sorry for the junk mail.

M. A. Ruberto


>From: "Michael Ruberto" <frankentron at hotmail.com>
>To: peter at buzzclick-music.com, EAR_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com,        
>PLAN_B_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com, analogue at hyperreal.org,        
>synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl, Doepfer_a100 at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
>Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:11:25 -0500
>
>I love what you guys are doing! The modules you are creating are original 
>and refreshing and I would love to add some to my system. But, at an 
>average price of 234.75/module it's just not a dream come true for me. I 
>would be quite happy to buy some lesser expensive kit modules. Any plans 
>for this?
>
>M. A. Ruberto
>
>
>>From: Peter Grenader <peter at buzzclick-music.com>
>>To: <EAR_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>, 
>><PLAN_B_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>,        <analogue at hyperreal.org>, 
>><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>,        <Doepfer_a100 at yahoogroups.com>
>>Subject: [sdiy] Ear News:  Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
>>Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:27:07 -0800
>>
>>Please excuse the x-postings.
>>
>>Ladies and Gents,
>>
>>Electro-Acoustic Research (EAR) is very excited to announce some big
>>changes:
>>
>>Effective Jan 1, 2006 Analogue haven has become our U.S. dealer!  Both 
>>U.S.
>>and oversea's customers may now purchase EAR product directly from the AH
>>site.
>>
>>To mark this occasion, Electro-Acoustic Research will be at the Analogue
>>Haven booth at the winter Namm show in Anaheim. It's booth 1787 ~ come by
>>and give us a high five and tweek the current and ever-expanding Plan B 
>>and
>>Livewire product line.
>>
>>Plan B is also pleased to announce the following new products:
>>
>>Model 14 Dual Voltage Processor
>>Model 15 Spectral Multiplexer
>>Model 19 VC Gate Delay
>>Model 23 Dual Analog Shift Register
>>
>>To have a look, go to:
>>
>>http://www.ear-group.com/planb_start.html
>>
>>...and scroll down to the module listing menu.  Information on these new
>>products, as well as updates on the Models 18 and 18A  are online.
>>
>>Both the Model 14 and Model 23, along with production units of the Model 
>>18
>>Stereo Mixer and 18A Mixer Expander will be available as soon as March of
>>2006 and will be at our booth at NAMM.  Make sure you check out the 
>>photo's
>>of these four modules on their specific product listing page on the EAR 
>>site
>>- they are all there.
>>
>>Have a fantastic 2006 and ....see you at NAMM!
>>
>>- Peter Grenader
>>
>
>




From frankentron at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  7 06:33:08 2006
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:33:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-F20A1B34F44A36840C0B2BFB3200@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY115-F201ABE8EAFCD988FA41FE4B3200@phx.gbl>

And I promise not to shame Harry for his old age anymore, because it seems 
senility is catching up with me too. ;-)

M. A. Ruberto


>From: "Michael Ruberto" <frankentron at hotmail.com>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
>Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:20:30 -0500
>
>Please disregard my last message on this. I sent it to list by accident. 
>Sorry for the junk mail.
>
>M. A. Ruberto
>
>
>>From: "Michael Ruberto" <frankentron at hotmail.com>
>>To: peter at buzzclick-music.com, EAR_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com,        
>>PLAN_B_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com, analogue at hyperreal.org,        
>>synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl, Doepfer_a100 at yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
>>Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:11:25 -0500
>>
>>I love what you guys are doing! The modules you are creating are original 
>>and refreshing and I would love to add some to my system. But, at an 
>>average price of 234.75/module it's just not a dream come true for me. I 
>>would be quite happy to buy some lesser expensive kit modules. Any plans 
>>for this?
>>
>>M. A. Ruberto
>>
>>
>>>From: Peter Grenader <peter at buzzclick-music.com>
>>>To: <EAR_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>, 
>>><PLAN_B_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>,        <analogue at hyperreal.org>, 
>>><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>,        <Doepfer_a100 at yahoogroups.com>
>>>Subject: [sdiy] Ear News:  Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
>>>Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:27:07 -0800
>>>
>>>Please excuse the x-postings.
>>>
>>>Ladies and Gents,
>>>
>>>Electro-Acoustic Research (EAR) is very excited to announce some big
>>>changes:
>>>
>>>Effective Jan 1, 2006 Analogue haven has become our U.S. dealer!  Both 
>>>U.S.
>>>and oversea's customers may now purchase EAR product directly from the AH
>>>site.
>>>
>>>To mark this occasion, Electro-Acoustic Research will be at the Analogue
>>>Haven booth at the winter Namm show in Anaheim. It's booth 1787 ~ come by
>>>and give us a high five and tweek the current and ever-expanding Plan B 
>>>and
>>>Livewire product line.
>>>
>>>Plan B is also pleased to announce the following new products:
>>>
>>>Model 14 Dual Voltage Processor
>>>Model 15 Spectral Multiplexer
>>>Model 19 VC Gate Delay
>>>Model 23 Dual Analog Shift Register
>>>
>>>To have a look, go to:
>>>
>>>http://www.ear-group.com/planb_start.html
>>>
>>>...and scroll down to the module listing menu.  Information on these new
>>>products, as well as updates on the Models 18 and 18A  are online.
>>>
>>>Both the Model 14 and Model 23, along with production units of the Model 
>>>18
>>>Stereo Mixer and 18A Mixer Expander will be available as soon as March of
>>>2006 and will be at our booth at NAMM.  Make sure you check out the 
>>>photo's
>>>of these four modules on their specific product listing page on the EAR 
>>>site
>>>- they are all there.
>>>
>>>Have a fantastic 2006 and ....see you at NAMM!
>>>
>>>- Peter Grenader
>>>
>>
>>
>
>




From peter at buzzclick-music.com  Sat Jan  7 06:52:53 2006
From: peter at buzzclick-music.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:52:53 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ? MOUSER
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F4A73A3D59D28860E8C684B4200@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BFE49735.2B015%peter@buzzclick-music.com>

If you can live with 3.5mm instead of 1/8th inch, All Electronics sells 2
foot long cables for a buck each - $.65 each for 100 or more. They're great
- I've got over 50 of them.

- P




Lewis Bupp wrote:

> Mouser Electronics has some decent and fairly inexpensive cables.
> 
> 
>> From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd at rddavis.org>
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
>> Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 20:03:37 -0500
>> 
>> Quothe rkmoore at memphis.edu, from writings of Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at
>> 06:11:50PM -0600:
>>> All Electronics has some fairly low quality, but very inexpensive 3.5mm
>>> cables for sale: $0.90 apiece in quantities greater than 10.  To me
>>> building cables is tedious, especially with small connectors.  I never
>>> found quality plugs cheap enough to justify building my own cables.  I
>> 
>> Eh?  Have you found something wrong with Switchcraft or Neutrik
>> connectors?  I rarely use miniature connectors, but I find most
>> pre-made cables, these days anyway, to be ridiculously overpriced.  I
>> mean, 28 bucks in a local hardware store for a 12-foot "studio
>> quality" (hah!) set of cables, with RCA plugs, featuring molded plugs
>> that can't be taken apart and resoldered.  I'll just buy some 1/4" 90%
>> shielded cable and whatever type of connectors I need from Neutrik or
>> Switchcraft.  Yes, making cables can be a major pain, and seems like a
>> waste of time, but, it's often worth it since one gets the
>> dependability and repairability that one desires.
>> 
>>> bought about 30 cables from all electronics about 6 months ago and
>>> haven't had one fail yet.
>> 
>> Six months?  What happens with them within six years? :-)
>> 
>> --
>> R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other
>> animals: an
>> www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
>> her
>> Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify
>> such
>> Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human
>> cruelty.
> 
> 



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Jan  7 06:54:42 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:54:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
References: <BAY115-F201ABE8EAFCD988FA41FE4B3200@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43BF57A1.556E46DA@prodigy.net>

What are you saying, you young punk.. I think I'll ... you know I'm
gonna...

... I forget now... When I REMEMBER you'll be in it then. You wait and
see !!!

what was I saying ???  :^P
 
H^) harry

Michael Ruberto wrote:
> 
> And I promise not to shame Harry for his old age anymore, because it seems
> senility is catching up with me too. ;-)
> 
> M. A. Ruberto
> 
> >From: "Michael Ruberto" <frankentron at hotmail.com>
> >To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >Subject: RE: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
> >Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:20:30 -0500
> >
> >Please disregard my last message on this. I sent it to list by accident.
> >Sorry for the junk mail.
> >
> >M. A. Ruberto
> >
> >
> >>From: "Michael Ruberto" <frankentron at hotmail.com>
> >>To: peter at buzzclick-music.com, EAR_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com,
> >>PLAN_B_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com, analogue at hyperreal.org,
> >>synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl, Doepfer_a100 at yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Ear News: Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
> >>Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:11:25 -0500
> >>
> >>I love what you guys are doing! The modules you are creating are original
> >>and refreshing and I would love to add some to my system. But, at an
> >>average price of 234.75/module it's just not a dream come true for me. I
> >>would be quite happy to buy some lesser expensive kit modules. Any plans
> >>for this?
> >>
> >>M. A. Ruberto
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: Peter Grenader <peter at buzzclick-music.com>
> >>>To: <EAR_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>,
> >>><PLAN_B_analog_blog at yahoogroups.com>,        <analogue at hyperreal.org>,
> >>><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>,        <Doepfer_a100 at yahoogroups.com>
> >>>Subject: [sdiy] Ear News:  Four new products, new delears and NAMM!
> >>>Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:27:07 -0800
> >>>
> >>>Please excuse the x-postings.
> >>>
> >>>Ladies and Gents,
> >>>
> >>>Electro-Acoustic Research (EAR) is very excited to announce some big
> >>>changes:
> >>>
> >>>Effective Jan 1, 2006 Analogue haven has become our U.S. dealer!  Both
> >>>U.S.
> >>>and oversea's customers may now purchase EAR product directly from the AH
> >>>site.
> >>>
> >>>To mark this occasion, Electro-Acoustic Research will be at the Analogue
> >>>Haven booth at the winter Namm show in Anaheim. It's booth 1787 ~ come by
> >>>and give us a high five and tweek the current and ever-expanding Plan B
> >>>and
> >>>Livewire product line.
> >>>
> >>>Plan B is also pleased to announce the following new products:
> >>>
> >>>Model 14 Dual Voltage Processor
> >>>Model 15 Spectral Multiplexer
> >>>Model 19 VC Gate Delay
> >>>Model 23 Dual Analog Shift Register
> >>>
> >>>To have a look, go to:
> >>>
> >>>http://www.ear-group.com/planb_start.html
> >>>
> >>>...and scroll down to the module listing menu.  Information on these new
> >>>products, as well as updates on the Models 18 and 18A  are online.
> >>>
> >>>Both the Model 14 and Model 23, along with production units of the Model
> >>>18
> >>>Stereo Mixer and 18A Mixer Expander will be available as soon as March of
> >>>2006 and will be at our booth at NAMM.  Make sure you check out the
> >>>photo's
> >>>of these four modules on their specific product listing page on the EAR
> >>>site
> >>>- they are all there.
> >>>
> >>>Have a fantastic 2006 and ....see you at NAMM!
> >>>
> >>>- Peter Grenader
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >


From scott at rosetta.com  Sat Jan  7 07:21:00 2006
From: scott at rosetta.com (Scott K Warren)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 00:21:00 -0600
Subject: RESEND: [sdiy] Multi-pair audio cable & pcb connector?
Message-ID: <df8bcdc84104b55558129da59b407194@rosetta.com>

I apologize if you've seen this message before -- my mail server's log 
suggests this didn't make it to the list on the first attempt, and 
since I got no responses I am trying once more. If it's just that 
nobody had any advice for me, then please excuse the clutter in your 
inbox.

-------------------------------------------

I'm going to use some Belden BL-1512C multi-pair snake cable (8 pairs 
individually shielded) to carry a bunch of line-level audio signals 
between a custom synth module I'm building and the back of the synth 
cabinet. Each conductor is 24 AWG. The cable run will be about six 
feet. Is this a bad idea for any reason? (I found a source selling this 
cable by the foot, so I don't have to buy a thousand dollar spool.)

If it's a reasonable idea, then what kind of connector should I use 
between the cable and the module's pcb? Is there a best way to assign 
conductors to connector pins (e.g. alternating signals and grounds like 
we do in digital ribbon cables)? What should I do with all the shields?

At the back of the cabinet will be audio jacks with a few more feet of 
cable plugged into them, terminating at various ordinary audio devices. 
Do I need to take any special precautions driving all this cable, or 
will a simple voltage follower per signal be ok?

Thanks,

skw



From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat Jan  7 11:37:22 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 11:37:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Futurelec
References: <BAY115-F26F673DFC45F8057F799DEB3200@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001201c61376$59db49d0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

What is their web adress?
I tried the obvious, but tis says "under construction".

JH.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Ruberto" <frankentron at hotmail.com>
To: <xyzzy at sysabend.org>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:18 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Futurelec


> Order all you like from them folks, just don't cancel an order because you
> WILL NOT GET YOUR MONEY BACK. Can I clarify this even more?
>
> M. A. Ruberto
>
> PS: if you do cancel an order good luck getting a person on the phone.
Don't
> waste your time, call your credit company. :)
>
> >From: Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org>
> >Reply-To: xyzzy at sysabend.org
> >To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >Subject: [sdiy] Futurelec
> >Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:32:36 -0800
> >
> >I mention this only because people have been asking about Futurelec
> >responsiveness.
> >
> >Placed an order Yesterday, received email confirmation with a tracking
> >number today.
> >
> >Oh, if you order from them, look on the specials page.  They have some
cute
> >little vu meters for $1.  You know thems going in a module :-)
> >
> >--
> >  -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
> >  - SynthGeek        -
> >  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
> >  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
> >  --------------------
> >
>
>
>



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan  7 11:42:27 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 10:42:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 1/8th patch cables ?
Message-ID: <43BF9B13.4090608@burnit.co.uk>

I guess we are all talking here about 3.5mm jacks (I've never seen an 
1/8" jack in UK)

One point to note is that certain 3.5mm jack sockets (e.g. Cliff part 
CL1384) do not work well with cheap far eastern jack plugs (e.g. like 
the cheap plastic ones Rapid sells) because the tips on these are 
slightly smaller and don't make good contact.  Cliff part CL13841 which 
is *almost* identical does not have this problem.

Seb




From eric at piramiden.demon.nl  Sat Jan  7 12:45:48 2006
From: eric at piramiden.demon.nl (Eric van Baaren)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 12:45:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Futurelec
In-Reply-To: <001201c61376$59db49d0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <NHBBIFCEGLMEBDNBDAJHCEHBEJAA.eric@piramiden.demon.nl>

I had the same problem.

http://www.futurlec.com/

worked better..

cheers,

Eric van Baaren.
_________________
http://www.sainteric.nl




-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]Namens JH.
Verzonden: zaterdag 7 januari 2006 11:37
Aan: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Onderwerp: Re: [sdiy] Futurelec


What is their web adress?
I tried the obvious, but tis says "under construction".

JH.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Ruberto" <frankentron at hotmail.com>
To: <xyzzy at sysabend.org>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:18 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Futurelec


> Order all you like from them folks, just don't cancel an order because you
> WILL NOT GET YOUR MONEY BACK. Can I clarify this even more?
>
> M. A. Ruberto
>
> PS: if you do cancel an order good luck getting a person on the phone.
Don't
> waste your time, call your credit company. :)
>
> >From: Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org>
> >Reply-To: xyzzy at sysabend.org
> >To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >Subject: [sdiy] Futurelec
> >Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:32:36 -0800
> >
> >I mention this only because people have been asking about Futurelec
> >responsiveness.
> >
> >Placed an order Yesterday, received email confirmation with a tracking
> >number today.
> >
> >Oh, if you order from them, look on the specials page.  They have some
cute
> >little vu meters for $1.  You know thems going in a module :-)
> >
> >--
> >  -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
> >  - SynthGeek        -
> >  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
> >  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
> >  --------------------
> >
>
>
>



From synth at wayfar.net  Sat Jan  7 13:58:19 2006
From: synth at wayfar.net (wayfar)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 04:58:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601011150o247720e6r5cb63cfd30a1f9c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200601011913.k01JDlp19855@linux7> <b6b288a70601011150o247720e6r5cb63cfd30a1f9c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43BFBAEB.7030603@wayfar.net>

If you need a cheap breadboard, check out the ones at all electronics 
(best prices I've seen).

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=105&type=store

This 25 years using the same board ......    stingy ;).

peace,
x|k




From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat Jan  7 14:46:51 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 14:46:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Futurelec
References: <BAY115-F26F673DFC45F8057F799DEB3200@phx.gbl> <001201c61376$59db49d0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <001701c6137e$8d3e3870$9402d0c4@vvtdhv1pb4ujte>
Message-ID: <000801c61390$d1d08580$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

Thanks !

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter C" <peterc at ibi.co.za>
To: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Futurelec


> J.H.:
> > What is their web adress?
>
> www.futurlec.com
>
> Also took some time to work it out....
> Peter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Futurelec
>
>
> > What is their web adress?
> > I tried the obvious, but tis says "under construction".
> >
> > JH.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Ruberto" <frankentron at hotmail.com>
> > To: <xyzzy at sysabend.org>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:18 AM
> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] Futurelec
> >
> >
> > > Order all you like from them folks, just don't cancel an order because
> you
> > > WILL NOT GET YOUR MONEY BACK. Can I clarify this even more?
> > >
> > > M. A. Ruberto
> > >
> > > PS: if you do cancel an order good luck getting a person on the phone.
> > Don't
> > > waste your time, call your credit company. :)
> > >
> > > >From: Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org>
> > > >Reply-To: xyzzy at sysabend.org
> > > >To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > >Subject: [sdiy] Futurelec
> > > >Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 11:32:36 -0800
> > > >
> > > >I mention this only because people have been asking about Futurelec
> > > >responsiveness.
> > > >
> > > >Placed an order Yesterday, received email confirmation with a
tracking
> > > >number today.
> > > >
> > > >Oh, if you order from them, look on the specials page.  They have
some
> > cute
> > > >little vu meters for $1.  You know thems going in a module :-)
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >  -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
> > > >  - SynthGeek        -
> > > >  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
> > > >  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
> > > >  --------------------
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date:
1/3/2006
> >
> >
>
>



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 15:15:57 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:15:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Breadboards
In-Reply-To: <43BFBAEB.7030603@wayfar.net>
References: <200601011913.k01JDlp19855@linux7>
	 <b6b288a70601011150o247720e6r5cb63cfd30a1f9c5@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43BFBAEB.7030603@wayfar.net>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601070615i3caaaf3g2ad5c6c79492c5cd@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/7/06, wayfar <synth at wayfar.net> wrote:
>
> If you need a cheap breadboard, check out the ones at all electronics
> (best prices I've seen).
>
> http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=105&type=store


That IS some nice pricing on them!  :)  GC electronics packaging, isn't it?
Same brand at one my local suppliers here.
That medium sized 1600'ish points one, is the next size that I was
considering, at the place here at $30 Canadian.
The exchange rate + duties + the G. S. T. that the government places on
commercial things from the States, may very well bring it up to the same or
a higher price though. :(

Thanks for pointing the site out though. :)

This 25 years using the same board ......    stingy ;).
>
> peace,
> x|k


Noooooo. :D  LOL.  They call it 'thrifty', up here in Canada. ;)  Haha. :D


--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 15:24:57 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:24:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Duh. Major sequencer tuning, realization. :O
In-Reply-To: <20060106115030.0AA17245@stiletto.hotkey.net.au>
References: <20060106115030.0AA17245@stiletto.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601070624s5019ef8m9bc6c7a15f7e06dc@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/6/06, Ken Stone <sasami at hotkey.net.au> wrote:
>
>
> >12 semitones to an octave.  Right? ;)  12 steps in a rotary switch, for 1
> >semitone PER.  Right?  ;) ;)
>
> No, not exactly. C to C1 is 13 notes (positions), or twelve steps (clicks
> of
> the rotary switch). If you want the oposite ends of the the rotary to be
> one
> octave apart, you need 1 volt across twelve equal resistors, with the top
> position and bottom position the ends of the resistor string.
>
> >This does NOT mean, 12 resistors of the the same value around the rotary
> >switch!  :O
>
> Oh yes it does! Note that twelve resistors = 13 positions - 13 hookup
> points.


That's the point there though.  :)  To have 1 octave worth of notes on the
rotary switch, I'd have to have a 13 position rotary.  :-/  I had mistakenly
hooked the ring of resistors around the rotary switch in the way that, I had
C at position 1, and C1 at position 12.  I.E.  Too many divisions between
the 2 positions.

>It took me a while to realize that the 1st and 12th switch positions are
> >NOT, 1 octave (I.E. - C to C)
>
> This is true. Position 13 needs to be the top C
>
> Ken


True.  Which I can't have, on the multiple of 12 position rotary switches
that I have. :)  I'm just now, trying to figure out how to get the entire
tuning system built, so that I have +1 and +2 octave switches available, for
each of the steps in the sequencer, as well.
Now that I finally have an uninterrupted full day to build, I have enough
time to sit and work that out.  :)

I'm going to keep the 'improperly tuned' sequence that's on my webpage
though - as a humourous portion of the machine's history. ;) LOL


--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From synth at wayfar.net  Sat Jan  7 15:59:19 2006
From: synth at wayfar.net (wayfar)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 06:59:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Idea to design to prototype to Product question.
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F10306150C9BB815D378DA7A9210@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F10306150C9BB815D378DA7A9210@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43BFD747.8050204@wayfar.net>

Firstly know your market, know your end specifications your looking for, 
then know your cost and determine the feasibility.

Adjust specifications according to cost of parts and assembly / shipping.

If things are looking feasable, then know exactly what chips / parts you 
will use from which vendor. Find the best vendors, and best pcb 
manufacturers / assembly / and understand the costs of an enclosure 
(machined or injection molded), and determine if your design is still 
worth proceeding with.

By now you should know what your going to do as far as parts and places 
to purchase them from.

Think about RFI EMI, and minimizing any kind of electronic radiation 
that would get you in trouble with the FCC or laws applicable in other 
countrys, think about materials restrictions including RoHS.

Start with a prototype, get it as close to the end product as possible 
on the first go. Minimise revisions by doing testing and calculations as 
much as possible on breadboards before you order a PCB. Make sure your 
PCB has all the optional connectors you need for your test equipment, 
also think about package options, make the design flexible for different 
packages of the same IC in the event that you need to do some substitution.

Build up the prototype and test it with everything it's going to be 
interfaced with, somtimes if your using lots of surface mount hardare 
you won't be able to do much on breadboards and will have to start with 
a PCB.

Get everyting working and then get some quality feedback on features 
that people recommend. Try to implement as many of those features as you 
can without increasing parts count.

Don't lag on user interface, spend a significant amount of time on user 
interface and build quality, use the golden ratio when applicable, don't 
let a user gripe about shoddy switches or bad build ruin an otherwise 
great sounding design. Where possible give the user the option. Add in 
features but let the user be able to bypass or route into them as they 
like. Flexibility is key, but don't re-invent the wheel, so matter how 
elite your design a square block will never fit into a round hole.

Don't take pre-orders, nor do waiting lists, it's a flag of 
unprofessionalism, if you need capital ebay a few prototypes for 
megabucks or find an investor.

Make sure you can ship your orders within a week of the order.

Finally work finantially smart, not hard - and pass the savings half to 
your profits, and half to the customer.

One tip to know your market better, is to read all the harmony-central 
gear reviews that have anything to do with similar gear that you will be 
competing against.

Hope this helps, goodluck.
x|k

Alert me wrote:

> Hi Johannes,
>
> Well, You have a point. But i didnt have that intention in mind. I was 
> asking for guidance and tips on how to go on with the project rather 
> than some one practically  helping me out with the project.
>
> To rephrase my question.  Can someone , who has been involved with 
> product development
> from idea to actualisation / product realisation , give some serious 
> pointers and tips.
>
>
> regards
> Alertme
>
>
>> From: Johannes ?berg <johannes.oberg at gmail.com>
>> To: Alert me <alertme at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Idea to design to prototype to Product question.
>> Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:57:22 +0100
>>
>> So the basic idea here is that somebody else should construct, for 
>> free, a
>> product for you to sell? And they don't get to know what any details 
>> about
>> the device, since then they could "rip you off", right?
>>
>> Sounds a bit like a "friend" of mine :p
>>
>> /Janoch
>>
>> On 1/5/06, Alert me <alertme at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi All,
>> > Sorry for the generic question.
>> > I have a few ideas which i desperately want to try out to 
>> materialise into
>> > a
>> > product.
>> > Though i have electronics knowledge and am now working with 
>> computers (
>> > support)
>> > I am stuck in the idea of the product phase.
>> > Now, i have documented all the requirements / features and how the 
>> product
>> > behaviour( functionality).
>> > Since the product is going to have a Kind of (complex ) controller 
>> circuit
>> > Now, i am not sure, how to start.
>> > Build the mechanical structure  > firmware > I/f with PC  > PC 
>> software
>> > Please help with the basics. I am new in this field.
>> > Groetjes  and Regards
>> > Alertme
>> >
>
>
>
>



From moogah at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 17:00:55 2006
From: moogah at gmail.com (Jeff Farr)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 11:00:55 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] All those who would like to build a 909
Message-ID: <78f89520601070800h28af65dan82d9879c55f1c660@mail.gmail.com>

Trevor Page has decided (again) to stop producing more 9090 PCB's
unless he can get a decent number of preorders (~10).  I've already
drummed up about 4 other people, plus myself, so I'm still in need of
5-6 other people who would like to build this thing.  Hop on over to
his yahoo group and say hello, perhaps we can get one more run started
(again ;)



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat Jan  7 17:11:27 2006
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 17:11:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Ground = -15V ????
In-Reply-To: <BAY109-F16F57317716AA1809A4AB8D8210@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY109-F16F57317716AA1809A4AB8D8210@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43BFE82F.7080405@uni-bonn.de>

Hi Rutger,

Rutger Vlek wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm having a strange problem with a synth i'm building. It's just 
> finished and works fine, but I found out that there's a voltage 
> difference between the synths ground and the ground of my mixer. The 
> difference is 15V!! That's exactly the voltage the powersupply of the 
> synth is generating. Compared with the ground of other synths or the 
> wall outlet ground the difference is also 15V! This means that 
> connecting a synth to the external input i made on my synth makes that 
> current is flowing between them. I don't like that... and I get lots of 
> weird behavior when i make the connection.

I'd unconnect everything from the synth, and check the GND of your 
external connections jack against the GND point at the PSU. Could be 
that there is some accidental connection between either supply rails and 
your case/jack GND.

> I have a symetrical power supply in the synth that gives +15V and -15V. 
> I'm using a power distribution board identical to the Oakley Sound Dizzy 
> board. All panel grounds, board grounds and digital grounds come 
> together on the distribution board and are connected to the power 
> supply's 0V.
> 
> I am using a 3-pin mains power connector connected to a grounded wall 
> outlet, but internally i'm not using this third pin. Should I?

If the transformer you're using is haveing double insulation then that 
should be ok.

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159




From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sat Jan  7 17:26:21 2006
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 16:26:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Duh. Major sequencer tuning, realization. :O
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601070624s5019ef8m9bc6c7a15f7e06dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFE59C2C.4DA4%davekendall@ntlworld.com>

Hi

>I'm just now, trying to figure out how to get the entire tuning system built,
>so that I have +1 and +2 octave switches available, for each of the steps in
>the sequencer, as well.

I might have missed the point, but do you really need the top C?
Why not have the 12 position rotary go from say C to the B above it, and use
octave switches to flip the range up or down.
I think a 13 pos. switch is going to be quite hard to find.....

Dave




From bbdsynth at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 17:32:03 2006
From: bbdsynth at gmail.com (Diogo Melo)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 16:32:03 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 100k and 500k 100mm Sliders
Message-ID: <8c2a45890601070832g4a8b850ah@mail.gmail.com>

does anyone has a clue were to get them? they were used in some arps and
moog (the satellite at least).


thanks


diogo
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From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Sat Jan  7 17:34:39 2006
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Sun,  8 Jan 2006 03:34:39 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer tuning update. Good & bad news.
Message-ID: <20060107163439.1A6FD10B@stiletto.hotkey.net.au>

Is your ocillator tracking correctly? Try reading the sep voltages with a
multimeter.

Ken

_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au or sasami at cgs.synth.net
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 17:37:23 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 11:37:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Duh. Major sequencer tuning, realization. :O
In-Reply-To: <BFE59C2C.4DA4%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <b6b288a70601070624s5019ef8m9bc6c7a15f7e06dc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BFE59C2C.4DA4%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601070837h4c3779d4r93228dc23a53ad04@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/7/06, Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> >I'm just now, trying to figure out how to get the entire tuning system
> built,
> >so that I have +1 and +2 octave switches available, for each of the steps
> in
> >the sequencer, as well.
>
> I might have missed the point, but do you really need the top C?
> Why not have the 12 position rotary go from say C to the B above it, and
> use
> octave switches to flip the range up or down.
> I think a 13 pos. switch is going to be quite hard to find.....
>
> Dave


Sorry about that Dave. :O  I tend to speak in riddles and disconnection, too
often. :O :(  Trying to fix that. :)

Before I had realized my error - winding the resistors around the 12
position rotary switch, I thought I could be happy - with C1 to C2, as that
would give me an octave, there.  I could then tune the oscillator to the
required pitch basis and continue on happily. ;)

Now that the error has been realized though ....... :)

Yes - as you'd typed, is the current plan, mostly.  The toggle switches for
Octave will be listed either:

+1 octave / Off
+2 octaves / Off

or

+1 octave / Off / -1 octave

It depends on how many of which type of toggle switches, that I have in
stock at the moment. :)  (I'll require 4 sets.  1 set for each of the 4
steps.)

Hopefully - I'll be able to convert 1 of my 3 pole 4 position or 4 pole 3
position switches, to a 1 pole 12 position switch, for overall
transposition. :)

I forgot to add a portamento function to my PC board as well.  I'm going to
see if I can fudge one of those in today as well, rather than building a
daughter PCB for the panel. :)

Off to experimenting and figuring out, what I'd been doing wrong. :O

I'm still trying to figure out why, with a standard ring of 12 x 121 ohm 1%
resistors around a 12 position rotary, my tuning on it goes:

1 - C
2 - C#
3 - D
4 - D#
5 - E
6 - F
7 - G (instead of F#)
8 - A (instead of G)
9 - C (instead of G#)
10 - unmeasured
11 - unmeasured
12 - unmeasured

...... notice the exponential rise in pitch, around the resistor string??
:( :(  I can't figure THAT out. :(  I'm going to move to the next rotary
switch step, thinking that the rotary that I've rebuilt for proper tuning,
may have a bad connection on 1 of the steps, decreasing the resistance, or
something. :(

Once these bugs are worked out - I'll finally be posting the schematic for
the thing, as it then exists.  :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From bbdsynth at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 19:17:16 2006
From: bbdsynth at gmail.com (Diogo Melo)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 18:17:16 +0000
Subject: Fwd: [sdiy] 100k and 500k 100mm Sliders
In-Reply-To: <6b8035270601070903m592c2f47x@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c2a45890601070832g4a8b850ah@mail.gmail.com>
	 <6b8035270601070903m592c2f47x@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c2a45890601071017s63acdc1bv@mail.gmail.com>

Ol?. Os sliders t?m 100mm de tamanho total. A "viagem" deve ter
provavelmente os tais 80mm. Vou dar uma olhadela nisso. obrigado

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Heitor Alves <heitor.alves at gmail.com>
Date: 07-Jan-2006 17:03
Subject: Re: [sdiy] 100k and 500k 100mm Sliders
To: Diogo Melo <bbdsynth at gmail.com>

Viva Diogo!

Andei a ver se encontrava Faders com 100mm de viagem, mas so encontro de 80
e de 120 (max).

Consegues tirar uma foto ao fader do satellite? Tenho aaqui em casa uma
serie de faders, que com sorte, sao compativeis com esses que precisas, mas
so tenho de 100k.

Abra?o

p.s. Procura no site da Mouser (www.mouser.com) pelo seguinte n?
312-9302-500k e 312-9302-100k. estes s?o da alpha e sao de 80mm (mandei vir
20 no outro dia para substiruir uns duma mesa de mistura, e ficaram 5
estrelas :)


2006/1/7, Diogo Melo <bbdsynth at gmail.com>:
>
> does anyone has a clue were to get them? they were used in some arps and
> moog (the satellite at least).
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> diogo
>
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From dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 19:36:06 2006
From: dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com (dustin sedlacek)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 12:36:06 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] All those who would like to build a 909
In-Reply-To: <78f89520601070800h28af65dan82d9879c55f1c660@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78f89520601070800h28af65dan82d9879c55f1c660@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b50a5d0a0601071036n660d7a83ic28d1252c80a2257@mail.gmail.com>

Can we get a link to the info ?

On 1/7/06, Jeff Farr <moogah at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Trevor Page has decided (again) to stop producing more 9090 PCB's
> unless he can get a decent number of preorders (~10).  I've already
> drummed up about 4 other people, plus myself, so I'm still in need of
> 5-6 other people who would like to build this thing.  Hop on over to
> his yahoo group and say hello, perhaps we can get one more run started
> (again ;)
>
>


--
Dustin
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From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 20:09:11 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 11:09:11 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 100k and 500k 100mm Sliders
In-Reply-To: <8c2a45890601070832g4a8b850ah@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c2a45890601070832g4a8b850ah@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87441170601071109x492bc22ck22bacc87ce0fe3bf@mail.gmail.com>

Mouser carries some sliders that are close. I haven't found anything
available that is a drop-in replacement for ARP parts. You might want to
double check that slider measurement - the sliders used in the Odyssey,
Axxe, Sequencer and Omni are 45mm travel. The values used are 100k linear,
100k audio and 1M audio. The 2600 used very different sliders, and I'm not
really sure what those are.

Tim (very different) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


On 1/7/06, Diogo Melo <bbdsynth at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> does anyone has a clue were to get them? they were used in some arps and
> moog (the satellite at least).
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> diogo
>
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From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sat Jan  7 20:22:21 2006
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:22:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] All those who would like to build a 909
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0601071036n660d7a83ic28d1252c80a2257@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFE5C56D.4DAD%davekendall@ntlworld.com>

Hi.

Try this one.... 

<http://www.introspectiv.eclipse.co.uk/>

Very tempting, but am currently doing the accounts, so will wait to see
whether the tax man is going to get all my money or not.
 
Yeah, I know, it's a bit of a wimp out, I admit........ :-)

cheers,

Dave K


>on 7/1/06 18:36, dustin sedlacek at dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com wrote:

>Can we get a link to the info ?


>On 1/7/06, Jeff Farr <moogah at gmail.com> wrote:
>Trevor Page has decided (again) to stop producing more 9090 PCB's
>unless he can get a decent number of preorders (~10).  I've already
>drummed up about 4 other people, plus myself, so I'm still in need of
>5-6 other people who would like to build this thing.  Hop on over to
>his yahoo group and say hello, perhaps we can get one more run started
>(again ;)







From rutgervlek at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  7 21:38:25 2006
From: rutgervlek at hotmail.com (Rutger Vlek)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 21:38:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Ground = -15V ????
In-Reply-To: <43BFE82F.7080405@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <BAY109-F2F12C6B32E51F2D51C548D8200@phx.gbl>

Hi everyone,

thanks. The problem is solved! A small piece of wire got trapped between the 
ground and the -15V. Not enough to cause the powersupply to detect a 
'short', but enough to make the ground -15V.

Thanks for the help!

Greetings,

Rutger


>From: Ren? Schmitz <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de>
>To: Rutger Vlek <rutgervlek at hotmail.com>
>CC: Harald.Antes at t-online.de, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ground = -15V ????
>Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 17:11:27 +0100
>
>Hi Rutger,
>
>Rutger Vlek wrote:
>>Hello everyone,
>>
>>I'm having a strange problem with a synth i'm building. It's just finished 
>>and works fine, but I found out that there's a voltage difference between 
>>the synths ground and the ground of my mixer. The difference is 15V!! 
>>That's exactly the voltage the powersupply of the synth is generating. 
>>Compared with the ground of other synths or the wall outlet ground the 
>>difference is also 15V! This means that connecting a synth to the external 
>>input i made on my synth makes that current is flowing between them. I 
>>don't like that... and I get lots of weird behavior when i make the 
>>connection.
>
>I'd unconnect everything from the synth, and check the GND of your external 
>connections jack against the GND point at the PSU. Could be that there is 
>some accidental connection between either supply rails and your case/jack 
>GND.
>
>>I have a symetrical power supply in the synth that gives +15V and -15V. 
>>I'm using a power distribution board identical to the Oakley Sound Dizzy 
>>board. All panel grounds, board grounds and digital grounds come together 
>>on the distribution board and are connected to the power supply's 0V.
>>
>>I am using a 3-pin mains power connector connected to a grounded wall 
>>outlet, but internally i'm not using this third pin. Should I?
>
>If the transformer you're using is haveing double insulation then that 
>should be ok.
>
>Cheers,
>  Ren?
>
>--
>uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
>http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
>
>




From moogah at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 23:13:33 2006
From: moogah at gmail.com (Jeff Farr)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:13:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] All those who would like to build a 909
In-Reply-To: <BFE5C56D.4DAD%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601071036n660d7a83ic28d1252c80a2257@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BFE5C56D.4DAD%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <78f89520601071413w7acf03d9s528cfcbed86cb0e3@mail.gmail.com>

The boards + EEPROMS and PIC for the sampled instruments and midi
interface were 100$.

On 1/7/06, Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Try this one....
>
> <http://www.introspectiv.eclipse.co.uk/>
>
> Very tempting, but am currently doing the accounts, so will wait to see
> whether the tax man is going to get all my money or not.
>
> Yeah, I know, it's a bit of a wimp out, I admit........ :-)
>
> cheers,
>
> Dave K
>
>
> >on 7/1/06 18:36, dustin sedlacek at dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com wrote:
>
> >Can we get a link to the info ?
>
>
> >On 1/7/06, Jeff Farr <moogah at gmail.com> wrote:
> >Trevor Page has decided (again) to stop producing more 9090 PCB's
> >unless he can get a decent number of preorders (~10).  I've already
> >drummed up about 4 other people, plus myself, so I'm still in need of
> >5-6 other people who would like to build this thing.  Hop on over to
> >his yahoo group and say hello, perhaps we can get one more run started
> >(again ;)
>
>
>
>
>
>



From moogah at gmail.com  Sat Jan  7 23:16:25 2006
From: moogah at gmail.com (Jeff Farr)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:16:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] All those who would like to build a 909
In-Reply-To: <78f89520601071413w7acf03d9s528cfcbed86cb0e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601071036n660d7a83ic28d1252c80a2257@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BFE5C56D.4DAD%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
	 <78f89520601071413w7acf03d9s528cfcbed86cb0e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78f89520601071416s54ee3eebp9d2b27811c1cfbd9@mail.gmail.com>

Oop.  Here's the addy for the yahoo group:
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/introspectiv/?tab=s
If that doesn't get you there just google "introspectiv

Trevor has never responded to an email that I've sent, but he seems to
be preset on the yahoo group.


On 1/7/06, Jeff Farr <moogah at gmail.com> wrote:
> The boards + EEPROMS and PIC for the sampled instruments and midi
> interface were 100$.
>
> On 1/7/06, Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > Try this one....
> >
> > <http://www.introspectiv.eclipse.co.uk/>
> >
> > Very tempting, but am currently doing the accounts, so will wait to see
> > whether the tax man is going to get all my money or not.
> >
> > Yeah, I know, it's a bit of a wimp out, I admit........ :-)
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Dave K
> >
> >
> > >on 7/1/06 18:36, dustin sedlacek at dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > >Can we get a link to the info ?
> >
> >
> > >On 1/7/06, Jeff Farr <moogah at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >Trevor Page has decided (again) to stop producing more 9090 PCB's
> > >unless he can get a decent number of preorders (~10).  I've already
> > >drummed up about 4 other people, plus myself, so I'm still in need of
> > >5-6 other people who would like to build this thing.  Hop on over to
> > >his yahoo group and say hello, perhaps we can get one more run started
> > >(again ;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



From lenham at clara.co.uk  Sun Jan  8 00:22:27 2006
From: lenham at clara.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 23:22:27 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] CA3083 (was Adding CA3140 to archive...)
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040358570.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060104115749.03420eb0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00a501c613e1$3998c380$0202a8c0@DELL>

> Electronic Goldmine has them for $.45 and they also have CA3083 for $.60. 
> The 3083 is still my favorite for NPN expo converters (use transistor #3 
> for HF tracking).  Low Re and very good matching.  Stock up on these, 
> folks.
>
>   Ian

UK DIYers may be pleased to hear that RS stock the CA3083 as a current item 
and, if you buy a tube of 25, they're ?0.35 each. Makes a change to get 
parts at the same price as our Stateside brethren...:-)

Steve L. 




From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sun Jan  8 00:42:49 2006
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 23:42:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] CA3083 (was Adding CA3140 to archive...)
In-Reply-To: <00a501c613e1$3998c380$0202a8c0@DELL>
Message-ID: <BFE60278.4DBB%davekendall@ntlworld.com>

on 7/1/06 23:22, Steve Lenham at lenham at clara.co.uk wrote:

> UK DIYers may be pleased to hear that RS stock the CA3083 as a current item
> and, if you buy a tube of 25, they're ?0.35 each. Makes a change to get
> parts at the same price as our Stateside brethren...:-)\

>From RS as well??? I nearly fell off the chair  :-)


Dave




From richard at skydancer.com  Sun Jan  8 01:03:27 2006
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 00:03:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIY d-beam
In-Reply-To: <BFE60278.4DBB%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <00a501c613e1$3998c380$0202a8c0@DELL>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060108000147.05883f08@mail.skydancer.com>

Someone posted a link here a few days ago.

Could someone post it again please?

Also if there are any other clues for opto- or IR-proximity sensing, that 
would be useful. I *know* I saw some D-Beam-like all-in-one detectors for a 
reasonable price a while back, but I forgot to bookmark the page and now I 
have no idea where. :(

Richard



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  8 01:40:53 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:40:53 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] DIY d-beam
References: <00a501c613e1$3998c380$0202a8c0@DELL> <5.1.0.14.2.20060108000147.05883f08@mail.skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <43C05F95.2E04FD94@prodigy.net>

Google Marjan and Synthesizer and you'll hit Marjan Urekar's
site, where the d-beam partial schematic is located.

I don't remember any other IRs lately... but there was a discussion of
Q-prox technology (capacitive sensing switches) and someone on the
list did a little playing with them.

There is some ultrasonic modules that can do distance sensing, using the
old technology developed by Polaroid for auto-focus. They would be sweet
to use, but who knows on stage ???

H^) harry

Richard Wentk wrote:
> 
> Someone posted a link here a few days ago.
> 
> Could someone post it again please?
> 
> Also if there are any other clues for opto- or IR-proximity sensing, that
> would be useful. I *know* I saw some D-Beam-like all-in-one detectors for a
> reasonable price a while back, but I forgot to bookmark the page and now I
> have no idea where. :(
> 
> Richard


From dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 02:17:18 2006
From: dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com (dustin sedlacek)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 19:17:18 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone need a gmail account ?
Message-ID: <b50a5d0a0601071717g2f6aa490g1b1738a260f2dba3@mail.gmail.com>

just ask, i have plenty of invites
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 02:31:00 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 20:31:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone need a gmail account ?
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0601071717g2f6aa490g1b1738a260f2dba3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601071717g2f6aa490g1b1738a260f2dba3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601071731q7d5322cdr6f3f316fe61f4188@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/7/06, dustin sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> just ask, i have plenty of invites
>

Me too. ;)  Still, 100 to give away. :)  (After about 6 months with gmail, I
finally killed, my 5 year old Hotmail account.  Absutively, NO comparison.
:P  to Microsloth. :D )

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From moogah at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 02:53:50 2006
From: moogah at gmail.com (Jeff Farr)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 20:53:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone need a gmail account ?
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601071731q7d5322cdr6f3f316fe61f4188@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601071717g2f6aa490g1b1738a260f2dba3@mail.gmail.com>
	 <b6b288a70601071731q7d5322cdr6f3f316fe61f4188@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78f89520601071753l4b8ccc77naca108614ad9f6d9@mail.gmail.com>

100 more here.

On 1/7/06, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. <rykhaard at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/7/06, dustin sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com> wrote:
> > just ask, i have plenty of invites
> >
>
> Me too. ;)  Still, 100 to give away. :)  (After about 6 months with gmail, I
> finally killed, my 5 year old Hotmail account.  Absutively, NO comparison.
> :P  to Microsloth. :D )
>
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
>
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html -
> D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan. 0406 update



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 03:05:01 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 21:05:01 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer tuning update. Good & bad news.
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601071805h30752bf6m64e51c1e572b0fe3@mail.gmail.com>

Firstly, the good news. :)

All 4 of my sequencer steps, with 12 position rotary switches, are happilly
pumping out the notes 'C to B'.

Now - the somewhat bad news.  :(

Not every note within those 12, on each of the rotary switches, is perfectly
tuned to it's respective note. :(  The notes at each end of the resistor
string around each rotary switch, ARE in tune though.

Each of the notes are at least, within Cents, if not exactly on.  So the 4
steps are usable.  I'm concerned about the tuning problems though.

The first solution that I tried, on the first rotary switch, was to reselect
the 1% resistors, manually, to 0.1%.  On the first rotary, I found
121.1ohms to be there mostly, so I hand selected 9 more
121.1 ohm resistors.

The result?  3 or 4 of the notes within the 12 notes around that rotary
switch, are STILL out of tune, by a few cents.  ????  I'm really confused
about this.  It couldn't require picking the resistors to 0.01 or
0.001%could it??  Maybe ...... my wonderings here:

It were suggested that I work with a voltage reference, instead of the
original 'constant current source' that I was going to go with.  The
reasoning, made good sense.  You need the CCS, if you're working with a
keyboard.  The CCS takes care of things, if you are holding down more than 1
key.
I don't have this trouble, as I can only select 1 note at a time, on a
rotary switch. :)

Looking at Barry Klein's modified Electronotes keyboard interface, where a
CCS is used - I noticed that the very last resistor in the resistor string,
is a Grounded pot, that can be used for the overall TUNING of the keyboard.
:O
I can't do this, with my Voltage Reference though.  (An LM329 giving
6.9Vinto a Voltage Follower, to buffer it.)
When I change the value of the last resistor in my resistor string, on each
step, I have to readjust the 1V/octave trimmer again.  If the resistor value
is too large, then my 1V/octave trimmer, can't be adjusted for enough, for
1V/octave. :( :(
That - rules out adding 'tuning' to each step; or adding another resistor
value to subtract 1 octave, from the step's tuning. :(  I would then have to
reset the trimmer resistor for 1V/octave - which I probably could not do -
as it wouldn't have the range. :(

For those in the know ..... ;)  ....... (knowing far more than I do, theory
wise) my exact resistor string for each of the 4 steps is:

- LM329 6.9V reference into an
- LF353 Voltage follower into the
- input of a CD4051 1:8 multiplexer with each step into a
- 5K6 resistor into a
- 1K 20 turn trimmer into the
- 12 position rotary switch, with 12 x 121 ohm 1% resistors around it,
finally into a
- 1K resistor

The control voltage from each step, is taken from the point between the
trimmer and the rotary switch.  (Changed from the previous string setup.)

Can anyone tell me, what I may be doing wrong??  :(  I'm going to try
setting up a Constant Current Source on my breadboard, and feeding that into
the multiplexer, to see how things change, with it.

I've figured logically - that I'm just doing a 'small keyboard' with 12
semitones.  There shouldn't be anything differen't.  Should there?

Final note - I was also told that my resistor value, compared to my 121 ohm
resistors on my rotary switch, should be at least 10 times that value.

I can't do that though. :(  With any total resistor value above the
7.6Kthat my 1st resistor; trimmer and last resistor total to, I'm not
able to
tune the entire string, to 1V/octave. :(  (The total value of all of the 121
ohm resistors around the rotary switch is 11 x 121 or 1331 ohms.  10 times
that - is 13.31k. )

Again - thank you greatly, for any potential help with this - and many
thanks to everyone, who has helped over the past week, or so. :)

The sequencer IS running now, at a usable tuning. :)  But I'd like to get
it, as perfectly tuned, as possible. :-/

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 03:37:48 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 21:37:48 -0500
Subject: Fwd: [sdiy] Sequencer tuning update. Good & bad news.
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601071828h10e4a01fgd77e112dfe4bf337@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060107163439.1A6FD10B@stiletto.hotkey.net.au>
	 <b6b288a70601071828h10e4a01fgd77e112dfe4bf337@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601071837o34810506xc4b42ecdf195e509@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/7/06, Ken Stone <sasami at hotkey.net.au> wrote:
>
> Is your ocillator tracking correctly? Try reading the sep voltages with a
> multimeter.
>
> Ken
>

That's been a minor question, that I've had.  When I'd built the VCO4D, I
got it tuned to under 0.25% accuracy across 5 octaves.  (October).  I
haven't checked it's tuning, ever since - assuming it would stay the same.
:-/
On that thought though - I can't figure out how it, could affect tunings
within the rotary switch - when each of the 4 rotaries, have each of their
ends' tuned.

I.E.

11 resistors around rotary:

R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R
1...............................11

Checking tuning on resistors 1 and 11 on each rotary, I tuned the trimmer
for each step, so that there was no beating at all, compared to a reference
frequency.  (Pocket PC, playing Piano software.)
But 3 to 5 resistors within those rotary strings, are out a few cents.

(Major head scratching)

And I do all tuning / resistor measurements / etc., with my Fluke 83. :)
Not as many character a display as I wish (7 or 8 character, I'd love to
have), but ...... I can't afford the professional meters from Agilent (HP)
and Fluke. :(

I don't have a MIDI keyboard hooked up to my modular at the moment, as both
my PCs are down here in the livingroom.  (I use the USB from one of them, to
run my Oxygen 8, keyboard - which I plug in to my MPU-101.)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  8 03:42:53 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 21:42:53 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer tuning update. Good & bad news.
References: <b6b288a70601071805h30752bf6m64e51c1e572b0fe3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C07C2D.14E5EB32@prodigy.net>

Hi Ryk

"Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N." wrote:
>
> The result?  3 or 4 of the notes within the 12 notes around that
> rotary switch, are STILL out of tune, by a few cents.  ????  I'm
> really confused about this.  It couldn't require picking the resistors
> to 0.01 or 0.001% could it??  Maybe ...... my wonderings here:

Well it depends on how fussy you are...

Another way to do the whole thing (little late for this :^) is to have
the
switch send a binary representation of its value to a bus (we talking
tons
of diodes here... and have just ONE DAC at the end...

This is how we made 'sequencers' in industry many years ago, before
micros...

> - LM329 6.9V reference into an
> - LF353 Voltage follower into the
> - input of a CD4051 1:8 multiplexer with each step into a
> - 5K6 resistor into a
> - 1K 20 turn trimmer into the
> - 12 position rotary switch, with 12 x 121 ohm 1% resistors around it,
> finally into a
> - 1K resistor
> 
> The control voltage from each step, is taken from the point between
> the trimmer and the rotary switch.  (Changed from the previous string
> setup.)

With voltage, why would you not take the outputs from the wipers... and
go
into a high impedance at that point (voltage follower opamp). ???

H^) harry


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  8 03:44:13 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 21:44:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer tuning update. Good & bad news.
References: <b6b288a70601071805h30752bf6m64e51c1e572b0fe3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C07C7D.4B968BB4@prodigy.net>

Or alternately...

Set up each switch separately... then multiplex the outputs into
a high impedacne with the 4051 which you are using anyway...

H^) harry


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 04:05:50 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 22:05:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer tuning update. Good & bad news.
In-Reply-To: <43C07C7D.4B968BB4@prodigy.net>
References: <b6b288a70601071805h30752bf6m64e51c1e572b0fe3@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43C07C7D.4B968BB4@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601071905ia45e384x93316439eb47a0c5@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/7/06, harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> Or alternately...
>
> Set up each switch separately... then multiplex the outputs into
> a high impedacne with the 4051 which you are using anyway...
>
> H^) harry
>

Set up each switch, with it's own LM329??
Multiplexing them back into 1 place, is easy, at least. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  8 05:25:02 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 23:25:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer tuning update. Good & bad news.
References: <b6b288a70601071805h30752bf6m64e51c1e572b0fe3@mail.gmail.com>
		 <43C07C7D.4B968BB4@prodigy.net> <b6b288a70601071905ia45e384x93316439eb47a0c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C0941E.2B7E3178@prodigy.net>

OK lets say... you have ONE LM329... driving an
opamp buffer. This suppies voltage to the top of each switch.

The wipers of each switch go to the 4051 (with say 200 ohms
on resistance when selected... 10^12 off).  The output of the 4051
goes to the non-inverting input of a TL072 opamp (so with THAT
high of an input impedance... the extra 200 ohms doesn't do a damn
thing).

If all the resistors in ONE switch are matched to each other... the next
switch just needs to be CLOSE in resistance... they could be all 100
ohms
or 110 ohms, or all 90 ohms...  With the high impedance of the buffer
they
could be 10K ohms...  (but usually you want some 'real' current going
through
a switch contact)

I suspecting that the tuning error you have is some small, but very real
loading on the circuit.  Probably mr Ohm would tell you why its
happening...
There is some non-accounted for load, somewhere...

Isn't design fun ??? :^P

H^) harry


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 06:09:05 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 00:09:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer tuning update. Good & bad news.
In-Reply-To: <43C0941E.2B7E3178@prodigy.net>
References: <b6b288a70601071805h30752bf6m64e51c1e572b0fe3@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43C07C7D.4B968BB4@prodigy.net>
	 <b6b288a70601071905ia45e384x93316439eb47a0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43C0941E.2B7E3178@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601072109t10e4bc2dwa24a533e545bb97e@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/7/06, harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> OK lets say... you have ONE LM329... driving an
> opamp buffer. This suppies voltage to the top of each switch.
>
> The wipers of each switch go to the 4051 (with say 200 ohms
> on resistance when selected... 10^12 off).  The output of the 4051
> goes to the non-inverting input of a TL072 opamp (so with THAT
> high of an input impedance... the extra 200 ohms doesn't do a damn
> thing).
>
> If all the resistors in ONE switch are matched to each other... the next
> switch just needs to be CLOSE in resistance... they could be all 100
> ohms or 110 ohms, or all 90 ohms...  With the high impedance of the buffer
> they could be 10K ohms...  (but usually you want some 'real' current going
> through a switch contact)
>
> I suspecting that the tuning error you have is some small, but very real
> loading on the circuit.  Probably mr Ohm would tell you why its
> happening...
> There is some non-accounted for load, somewhere...
>
> Isn't design fun ??? :^P
>
> H^) harry
>

Ahhh!  Then, with such a high impedance, I only have to have 1 set of
resistors external to the rotaries, for the proper voltage range.  (To make
sure that I have the rotary changing the input voltage, the proper 1V/octave
amount).

With the setup as you say - that would make the entire thing MUCH simpler.
:O  I'm trying to picture it mentally right now - to see if I could
breadboard a test of it, with say - 2 rotaries. :)
If that would work, I'd scrap the entire portion that I have now (for the
rotaries - keeping the Clock / etc.) and do the rest on a daughter board. :)

Wonder if I have enough brains left tonight, to try breadboarding it. :)

Thank you muchlee for that idea, Harry! :D

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sun Jan  8 07:01:48 2006
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 22:01:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Polishing synth keys..
Message-ID: <43C0AACC.7030707@imt.net>

I have a victim of a 'ring' bearing person here.  Grooves worn all the 
way across the board and the top key broken.  Fortunately I have the 
last three top keys from Roland's stock...but the others...I can work 
them down real easy with a scrub pad....but to get the gloss back...does 
anyone have a good proceedure that doesn't take half a day? -Bob


From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Sun Jan  8 08:44:34 2006
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 02:44:34 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Polishing synth keys..
Message-ID: <297.37900c5.30f21ce2@aol.com>


In a message dated 1/7/06 9:10:58 PM, sounddoctorin at imt.net writes:


> ....but to get the gloss back...does
> anyone have a good proceedure that doesn't take half a day? -Bob
> 

I get very good results with Novus plastic polish and scratch remover.   For 
this type of work, it's the s*it.   Unfortunately, it's not cheap - but an 8 
oz. bottle will probably last you a pretty long time.   It comes in three 
grades, labeled Novus 1, 2, or 3.   The #3 grade is for working on deep scratches, 
and the #1 is strictly for cleaning and polishing surfaces that already have 
the scratches removed.   If you're just going to get one bottle to try, 
definitely get the #2, since it does a little of both things.   I use to use it to 
take minor scratches out of keys on Yamaha units that were subsequently sent 
back to Yamaha for sale as B stock.   It would make the keys look brand new.   I 
use the #2 grade for everything.

You can use heavy paper towels to do the work, or better yet, those blue 
industrial "shop towels".   If you're working on deep scratches, you can try 
applying some to the surface, then working it around with a cloth buffing tip on a 
Dremel tool (set to the slowest speed -- you don't want to create divots in 
the keys!)

You can also use the #1 grade to polish clear plastic lenses, such as front 
panel LCD covers.   It'll take away that foggy, cloudy look, and leave a nice 
shine.   The #2 grade works, too, but be careful with how hard you rub.

http://www.novuspolish.com   for info.   Call (800) 548-6872 to find a local 
Novus distributor.   Novus will sell direct, too, but you have to buy kits 
that include all three grades.   $28.00 for the 3-piece kit (8 oz. bottles)

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From krooshof at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 13:29:31 2006
From: krooshof at gmail.com (Dave Krooshof - dendriet.nl)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 13:29:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Synthesizer Soundsheet Library
In-Reply-To: <51BEA337-02EE-4436-978C-4AE207845EE6@asapnet.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040358570.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <6.2.1.2.2.20060104115749.03420eb0@mail.earthlink.net>
	 <51BEA337-02EE-4436-978C-4AE207845EE6@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <973977240601080429u50c487a1i@mail.gmail.com>

2006/1/5, Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net>:
> Saw this on AH - Fun place to visit
>
> http://www.keyboardmuseum.org/soundsheet/soundsheet.html
>
> They have the demo record for the Tau System "Pipe" phaser (diode
> ladder phaser).
>
>
Could not find that Tau one...

But the Aphex Aural Exiter demo cracks me up every time.
Plus it reveals the main ingredient of the sauce over eighties sound.


--
http://www.dendriet.nl



From bbdsynth at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 16:03:07 2006
From: bbdsynth at gmail.com (Diogo Melo)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:03:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Synthesizer Soundsheet Library
In-Reply-To: <973977240601080429u50c487a1i@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040358570.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
	 <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <6.2.1.2.2.20060104115749.03420eb0@mail.earthlink.net>
	 <51BEA337-02EE-4436-978C-4AE207845EE6@asapnet.net>
	 <973977240601080429u50c487a1i@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c2a45890601080703n74d03b4cv@mail.gmail.com>

On 08/01/06, Dave Krooshof - dendriet.nl <krooshof at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> But the Aphex Aural Exiter demo cracks me up every time.
> Plus it reveals the main ingredient of the sauce over eighties sound.
>
>
> --
> http://www.dendriet.nl



"my drums feel more drumier!"
"my guitar feels more guitarrer!"

or something dumb like that.
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From bastardita at hotmail.com  Sun Jan  8 16:29:54 2006
From: bastardita at hotmail.com (david wright)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 08:29:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] answer to cracklebox's lineout problem
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601040358570.28371@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <20060104163307.24658.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060104115749.03420eb0@mail.earthlink.net> <51BEA337-02EE-4436-978C-4AE207845EE6@asapnet.net> <973977240601080429u50c487a1i@mail.gmail.com> <8c2a45890601080703n74d03b4cv@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV4124B4C6032EB4931569AC0230@phx.gbl>

hey folks - i thought some people on this list might
find this intresting. i've made a few crackleboxes in the past
year and really enjoy playing them - but as you all know
due to impendance problems the line out will never sound
the same as the speaker. maybe an audio transformer here
would be easier but not cheaper. 

 A cheap solution! experimenting w/ VLF receivers i've found
that not only are there are horrible radiation/radio waves
all around my house - but they make GREAT CRACKELBOX
 pick ups! just put a VLF receiver next
to your cracklebox - and you have a nice line out.

http://www.da4e.nl/BBB_41.html

just thought that might intrest someone - here is a schem
of a very basic but good working VLF receiver. you will
probally need to add a 386 AMP to the output of your
VLF receiver - keep it away from the input/output
of the vlf circuit or it will feedback. also decouple the
386 and possible put a 3904 as a decoupler from the
power supply to the VLF circuit

all the best

dave wright


From pniedermayr at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  8 19:02:00 2006
From: pniedermayr at yahoo.com (Pete Niedermayr)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 10:02:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Synthesizer Soundsheet Library
In-Reply-To: <8c2a45890601080703n74d03b4cv@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060108180200.11823.qmail@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My fav is the Stylophone demo. 

Quite a concept they had ,Play along records and
family members armed with stylophones sitting around
the Christmas tree playing carols. 

What a hoot!

--- Diogo Melo <bbdsynth at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 08/01/06, Dave Krooshof - dendriet.nl
> <krooshof at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > But the Aphex Aural Exiter demo cracks me up every
> time.
> > Plus it reveals the main ingredient of the sauce
> over eighties sound.
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.dendriet.nl
> 
> 
> 
> "my drums feel more drumier!"
> "my guitar feels more guitarrer!"
> 
> or something dumb like that.
> 



From pniedermayr at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  8 19:06:26 2006
From: pniedermayr at yahoo.com (Pete Niedermayr)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 10:06:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Case shielding
Message-ID: <20060108180626.73408.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm doing some work on a couple electric guitars and
in the process of shielding the body cavities. 

I'm wondering is shielding synth cases a good idea?


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan  8 19:32:23 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 13:32:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Case shielding
References: <20060108180626.73408.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43C15AB7.E3D8C806@prodigy.net>

Its a good idea, but less of a good idea than shielding
guitars.

The guitar pickups are usually quite high impedance... and subject
to noise coupling into them by capacitance. Your body (hey dude,
nice antenna) can capacitively couple to the wiring easily.

Synths are usually not that close to the body, run much higher
signal levels, and in a lot of cases have sensitive circuits on
or near ground planes.  A metal cased synth will still be quieter
(usually) than one in wood, or plastic. At 10V signal levels you
are not likely to notice.

Guitar shielding cannot stop magnetic inteference... usually the
shileds are copper or brass. They only stop capacitive or high
frequency (RFI) pickup.

DO NOT try to shield your pickups with magnetic materials such as
MuMetal... you will be very unhappy when the field (which should reach
the
strings)... doesn't reach the strings.

H^) harry

Pete Niedermayr wrote:
> 
> I'm doing some work on a couple electric guitars and
> in the process of shielding the body cavities.
> 
> I'm wondering is shielding synth cases a good idea?


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 21:17:52 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:17:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Finally - after almost 2 weeks of tuning problems .......
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601081217r7904a6cs3057b439c3c518fa@mail.gmail.com>

thanks especially to Dr. Timothy Stinchcombe, Harry Bissell, Ken Stone et
al, I have a proper tuning method for the rotary switches on my
sequencer!!!!  :D :D :D

All of the fiddlings trying to get one method to work properly, but never
QUITE getting there - was frustrating as heck!

Now - thanks to combining Dr. Tim's suggestion of the Constant Current
Source combined with Ken Stone's LM329 6.9V reference - I have a proper
tuning structure for the rotaries! :D

I just finished hooking up the CCS after the LM329 6.9V reference to one
rotary switch - tuned it up to 1V/octave, and it's flawless on each of the
12 notes. :)  Barely a bit of beating - but I tuned in a rush.  With a
slight bit of fine tuning, it'll be beat free across the octave. :)

I'm off to hook up the other 3 rotary switches, and will be posting a new
WAV sample to my website - with the 4 rotaries playing a changing sequence -
this time - PROPERLY tuned!  Haha. :D

Once the rest of the system is put together, I'll be posting a schematic of
it for everyone, on my webpage. :)  Hopefully others may find it useful for
building, as well. :)

Again everyone who has helped greatly over the past 10 days or so - thank
you IMMENSELY! :D :D  Credit for each is posted on the webpage already as
well. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 21:23:41 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:23:41 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
Message-ID: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com>

CJ / Metro, are you out there? I'm doing a little checking up for a person
who ordered some tempcos from you (he no longer subscribes to SDIY).

Are there any others out there who haven't received their orders? I saw that
many of the orders (but not all) were filled in October, but some people
were still waiting, especially for the 1.87k parts. Who else is still
waiting for tempcos from Metrophage?


Tim (defective detective) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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From eric at piramiden.demon.nl  Sun Jan  8 22:00:45 2006
From: eric at piramiden.demon.nl (Eric van Baaren)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:00:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
In-Reply-To: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <NHBBIFCEGLMEBDNBDAJHOEHOEJAA.eric@piramiden.demon.nl>

I haven't received anything until now and I am getting no response on email.


Eric van Baaren.
_________________
http://www.sainteric.nl



  -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
  Van: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]Namens Tim Parkhurst
  Verzonden: zondag 8 januari 2006 21:24
  Aan: Synth-DIY
  Onderwerp: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order


  CJ / Metro, are you out there? I'm doing a little checking up for a person
who ordered some tempcos from you (he no longer subscribes to SDIY).

  Are there any others out there who haven't received their orders? I saw
that many of the orders (but not all) were filled in October, but some
people were still waiting, especially for the 1.87k parts. Who else is still
waiting for tempcos from Metrophage?


  Tim (defective detective) Servo
  --
  "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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From antoniotuzzi at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 22:39:55 2006
From: antoniotuzzi at gmail.com (Antonio Tuzzi)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:39:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
In-Reply-To: <NHBBIFCEGLMEBDNBDAJHOEHOEJAA.eric@piramiden.demon.nl>
References: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com>
	 <NHBBIFCEGLMEBDNBDAJHOEHOEJAA.eric@piramiden.demon.nl>
Message-ID: <f11c57cd0601081339g608db2adv484e630c3d7e9510@mail.gmail.com>

same here (all types ordered, no one received...)
Antonio

On 1/8/06, Eric van Baaren <eric at piramiden.demon.nl> wrote:
>
> I haven't received anything until now and I am getting no response on email.
>
>
>
> Eric van Baaren.
> _________________
> http://www.sainteric.nl
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]Namens Tim
> Parkhurst
> Verzonden: zondag 8 januari 2006 21:24
> Aan: Synth-DIY
> Onderwerp: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
>
>
> CJ / Metro, are you out there? I'm doing a little checking up for a person
> who ordered some tempcos from you (he no longer subscribes to SDIY).
>
> Are there any others out there who haven't received their orders? I saw that
> many of the orders (but not all) were filled in October, but some people
> were still waiting, especially for the 1.87k parts. Who else is still
> waiting for tempcos from Metrophage?
>
>
> Tim (defective detective) Servo
> --
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein



From fetafarmer at fetafarm.com  Sun Jan  8 22:51:54 2006
From: fetafarmer at fetafarm.com (Kevin Haywood)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 13:51:54 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
In-Reply-To: <f11c57cd0601081339g608db2adv484e630c3d7e9510@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com> <NHBBIFCEGLMEBDNBDAJHOEHOEJAA.eric@piramiden.demon.nl> <f11c57cd0601081339g608db2adv484e630c3d7e9510@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8194F370-77A5-4DE7-8F44-01F1F6DBD336@fetafarm.com>

No word, and no tempcos.  I inquired about this last month, too.

Kevin



On Jan 8, 2006, at 1:39 PM, Antonio Tuzzi wrote:

> same here (all types ordered, no one received...)
> Antonio
>
> On 1/8/06, Eric van Baaren <eric at piramiden.demon.nl> wrote:
>>
>> I haven't received anything until now and I am getting no response  
>> on email.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric van Baaren.
>> _________________
>> http://www.sainteric.nl
>>
>>
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]Namens Tim
>> Parkhurst
>> Verzonden: zondag 8 januari 2006 21:24
>> Aan: Synth-DIY
>> Onderwerp: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
>>
>>
>> CJ / Metro, are you out there? I'm doing a little checking up for  
>> a person
>> who ordered some tempcos from you (he no longer subscribes to SDIY).
>>
>> Are there any others out there who haven't received their orders?  
>> I saw that
>> many of the orders (but not all) were filled in October, but some  
>> people
>> were still waiting, especially for the 1.87k parts. Who else is still
>> waiting for tempcos from Metrophage?
>>
>>
>> Tim (defective detective) Servo
>> --
>> "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
>



From ecircuit at telus.net  Sun Jan  8 23:00:16 2006
From: ecircuit at telus.net (The Peasant)
Date: Sun,  8 Jan 2006 15:00:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
In-Reply-To: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1136757616.43c18b7039881@webmail.telus.net>

I have not received mine yet either, I had ordered all three values.

Take care,
Doug
______________________
The Electronic Peasant

www.electronicpeasant.com


Quoting Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com>:

> CJ / Metro, are you out there? I'm doing a little checking up for a person
> who ordered some tempcos from you (he no longer subscribes to SDIY).
> 
> Are there any others out there who haven't received their orders? I saw that
> many of the orders (but not all) were filled in October, but some people
> were still waiting, especially for the 1.87k parts. Who else is still
> waiting for tempcos from Metrophage?
> 
> 
> Tim (defective detective) Servo
> --
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
> 




From synthbaron at tampabay.rr.com  Sun Jan  8 23:10:29 2006
From: synthbaron at tampabay.rr.com (SB)
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 17:10:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
In-Reply-To: <1136757616.43c18b7039881@webmail.telus.net>
References: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com> <1136757616.43c18b7039881@webmail.telus.net>
Message-ID: <43C18DD5.6080405@tampabay.rr.com>

If anyone needs any for a project and are waiting for your order, I'd be 
happy to loan you some in the 1k and 2k values.

Jay


From groovyshaman at snet.net  Sun Jan  8 23:19:08 2006
From: groovyshaman at snet.net (groovyshaman)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:19:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
References: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <012601c614a1$8ccbbb50$14cda8c0@corellia>

Hi Tim,

I ordered all three types and have been waiting since July.  I've sent emails about once per month and I haven't received a response since October.

-George
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tim Parkhurst 
  To: Synth-DIY 
  Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 3:23 PM
  Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order


  CJ / Metro, are you out there? I'm doing a little checking up for a person who ordered some tempcos from you (he no longer subscribes to SDIY). 

  Are there any others out there who haven't received their orders? I saw that many of the orders (but not all) were filled in October, but some people were still waiting, especially for the 1.87k parts. Who else is still waiting for tempcos from Metrophage? 


  Tim (defective detective) Servo
  -- 
  "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein 
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From cornutt at hiwaay.net  Sun Jan  8 23:26:43 2006
From: cornutt at hiwaay.net (David Cornutt)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 16:26:43 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
In-Reply-To: <012601c614a1$8ccbbb50$14cda8c0@corellia>
References: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com> <012601c614a1$8ccbbb50$14cda8c0@corellia>
Message-ID: <D86C15E2-8095-11DA-B96E-0003938E2F50@hiwaay.net>


On Jan 8, 2006, at 4:19 PM, groovyshaman wrote:

> Hi Tim,
> ?
> I ordered all three types and have been waiting since July.? I've sent 
> emails about once per month and I haven't received a response since 
> October.
>

Hmm.  Now that you mention it... I looked back at my last year's worth 
of SDIY email, and
I see he hasn't posted since October 18.  And at the time he was having 
a feud with
a cat that had peed on his Juno-106.  Could be trouble... :-)

Seriously, he was a regular poster for a long time, and he seems to have
just dropped off the edge of the net.  Maybe someone had better check 
on him.
Does anyone know where he lives?




From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan  8 23:49:12 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:49:12 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Finally - after almost 2 weeks of tuning problems .......
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601081439r43f5b102u14ae4b18ec6284ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b288a70601081217r7904a6cs3057b439c3c518fa@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43c1821a.1292176a.5eeb.152eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com>
	 <b6b288a70601081439r43f5b102u14ae4b18ec6284ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601081449q25fa1fado161545472995b5ab@mail.gmail.com>

Heh.  Minor, new problem. :P  Haha. :D

I've got all 4 of the rotary switches hooked up again.  I ran into a small
problem.  Whilst all 4 of them cycling away are sounding great - together
they're about 99.5% in tune with each other.  :(

One thought that I had, was to add a trimmer resistor, just before the 1K
resistor to Ground.

I tried a 200 ohm 20 turn trimmer, with an 820 ohm resistor replacing the
1K.  Nope.  Almost, but not quite.

I tried a 500 ohm 20 turn trimmer, thinking that it would help me get that
little bit of extra range.  Nope.  I finally realized that the extra
resistance that I'm putting in, is acting JUST like a TUNING pot! :O  The
frequency ratio is still the SAME right across.  There was no difference in
tuning between the 1st and 12th position on the rotary, whether I had 820
ohms at the bottom, or 820 + 500 ohms at the bottom.
Ahhhh!  So TUNING, WILL work on this version!  :D

But now - how, do I get the ratio set exactly?  My only thoughts so far, are
0.1% each of the 1% resistors, around each rotary.  I THINK, that should
take care of it.  Giving an even division between each step on the rotary.
No?

Also - my trouble COULD be - not having tuned the 1V/octave trimmer in the
Constant Current Source - EXACTLY.  (I'd rushed, on the 1st rotary set up.)
I'm going to go back, and trim it to beat free on 1 trimmer for the 1st and
12th positions, and see where that takes me. :)

Another new trouble - using the LM329 6.9V reference with the Constant
Current Source - is dropping my main output voltage to 1.6V. :O :O  That
only allows me enough resistance to drop the source 1 more volt.  (Unless I
go into -V.  Can I, without troubles??)
I'm wondering if I should move up to a 10V source.  (Which I don't have
anything FOR, at the moment - unless I can do the same thing as the LM329
with an LM723, variable regulator.)

Anyhoo ..... I'm still pleased as punch. :)  Once I have my new maple panels
in, I'll be mounting the PCB to it - and completing the sequencer, finally.
I don't wish to mount it to my prototyping pegboard, as I'll just have to
rip it all out again, to move into the Maple panel. :(  And with the
sequencer; 7 bit divider; S&H; white noise and 2 logic gates on this board -
it'll be a LOT to transfer. :P

Come on maple - hurry up and get here!  :D  LOL

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From groovyshaman at snet.net  Sun Jan  8 23:53:51 2006
From: groovyshaman at snet.net (groovyshaman)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:53:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
References: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com> <012601c614a1$8ccbbb50$14cda8c0@corellia> <D86C15E2-8095-11DA-B96E-0003938E2F50@hiwaay.net>
Message-ID: <018901c614a6$66f75650$14cda8c0@corellia>

He lives in Stratford, Connecticut.  Not sure of the address.  I live in
Danbury, CT which is about an hour northwest.  I hope he is ok.  Maybe the
cat ate him?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Cornutt" <cornutt at hiwaay.net>
To: "Synth-Diy diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order



On Jan 8, 2006, at 4:19 PM, groovyshaman wrote:

> Hi Tim,
>
> I ordered all three types and have been waiting since July. I've sent
> emails about once per month and I haven't received a response since
> October.
>

Hmm.  Now that you mention it... I looked back at my last year's worth
of SDIY email, and
I see he hasn't posted since October 18.  And at the time he was having
a feud with
a cat that had peed on his Juno-106.  Could be trouble... :-)

Seriously, he was a regular poster for a long time, and he seems to have
just dropped off the edge of the net.  Maybe someone had better check
on him.
Does anyone know where he lives?





From amajorel at teaser.fr  Mon Jan  9 00:10:05 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:10:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
In-Reply-To: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060108231004.GA32337@atc5.vermine.org>

On 2006-01-08 12:23 -0800, Tim Parkhurst wrote:

> CJ / Metro, are you out there? I'm doing a little checking up
> for a person who ordered some tempcos from you (he no longer
> subscribes to SDIY).
> 
> Are there any others out there who haven't received their
> orders? I saw that many of the orders (but not all) were
> filled in October, but some people were still waiting,
> especially for the 1.87k parts. Who else is still waiting for
> tempcos from Metrophage?

Me (there were some 1.87 k in my order).

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan  9 00:17:01 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 18:17:01 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Finally - after almost 2 weeks of tuning problems .......
References: <b6b288a70601081217r7904a6cs3057b439c3c518fa@mail.gmail.com>
		 <43c1821a.1292176a.5eeb.152eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com>
		 <b6b288a70601081439r43f5b102u14ae4b18ec6284ff@mail.gmail.com> <b6b288a70601081449q25fa1fado161545472995b5ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C19D6D.E43FA178@prodigy.net>

Is the 6.9 always stable ?  Its possible you are pulling too much
current so you are on the edge of regulation. If this is the case...
the resistor feedign the LM329 is now too small.

This is the 'hidden weenie' of all shunt regulators.

...over...

H^) harry

"Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N." wrote:
> 
> Heh.  Minor, new problem. :P  Haha. :D
> 
> I've got all 4 of the rotary switches hooked up again.  I ran into a
> small problem.  Whilst all 4 of them cycling away are sounding great -
> together they're about 99.5% in tune with each other.  :(
> 
> One thought that I had, was to add a trimmer resistor, just before the
> 1K resistor to Ground.
> 
> I tried a 200 ohm 20 turn trimmer, with an 820 ohm resistor replacing
> the 1K.  Nope.  Almost, but not quite.
> 
> I tried a 500 ohm 20 turn trimmer, thinking that it would help me get
> that little bit of extra range.  Nope.  I finally realized that the
> extra resistance that I'm putting in, is acting JUST like a TUNING
> pot! :O  The frequency ratio is still the SAME right across.  There
> was no difference in tuning between the 1st and 12th position on the
> rotary, whether I had 820 ohms at the bottom, or 820 + 500 ohms at the
> bottom.
> Ahhhh!  So TUNING, WILL work on this version!  :D
> 
> But now - how, do I get the ratio set exactly?  My only thoughts so
> far, are 0.1% each of the 1% resistors, around each rotary.  I THINK,
> that should take care of it.  Giving an even division between each
> step on the rotary.  No?
> 
> Also - my trouble COULD be - not having tuned the 1V/octave trimmer in
> the Constant Current Source - EXACTLY.  (I'd rushed, on the 1st rotary
> set up.)  I'm going to go back, and trim it to beat free on 1 trimmer
> for the 1st and 12th positions, and see where that takes me. :)
> 
> Another new trouble - using the LM329 6.9V reference with the Constant
> Current Source - is dropping my main output voltage to 1.6V. :O :O
> That only allows me enough resistance to drop the source 1 more volt.
> (Unless I go into -V.  Can I, without troubles??)
> I'm wondering if I should move up to a 10V source.  (Which I don't
> have anything FOR, at the moment - unless I can do the same thing as
> the LM329 with an LM723, variable regulator.)
> 
> Anyhoo ..... I'm still pleased as punch. :)  Once I have my new maple
> panels in, I'll be mounting the PCB to it - and completing the
> sequencer, finally.  I don't wish to mount it to my prototyping
> pegboard, as I'll just have to rip it all out again, to move into the
> Maple panel. :(  And with the sequencer; 7 bit divider; S&H; white
> noise and 2 logic gates on this board - it'll be a LOT to transfer. :P
> 
> Come on maple - hurry up and get here!  :D  LOL
> 
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
> 
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N .;s webpage
> - Jan. 0406 update


From raywilson at comcast.net  Mon Jan  9 01:36:34 2006
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:36:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 2K tempcos here...
References: <87441170601081223u5b3562d9oc34fcdf42ceea9ff@mail.gmail.com> <1136757616.43c18b7039881@webmail.telus.net> <43C18DD5.6080405@tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <002101c614b4$c2f87750$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>

I also have 2K available here:
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/catalog.php?page=CATALOG

Ray


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "SB" <synthbaron at tampabay.rr.com>
To: "The Peasant" <ecircuit at telus.net>
Cc: "Tim Parkhurst" <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com>; "Synth-DIY" 
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order


> If anyone needs any for a project and are waiting for your order, I'd be 
> happy to loan you some in the 1k and 2k values.
>
> Jay 



From lbuppii at hotmail.com  Mon Jan  9 03:18:42 2006
From: lbuppii at hotmail.com (Lewis Bupp)
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:18:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Paia Modules/Gear
Message-ID: <BAY102-F36C9A4C5DCC4E6414C8733B4220@phx.gbl>

Does anyone have any Paia 2720 Series modules? Also looking for a 
Stringz-n-Things and Proteus. Any leads would be appreciated.

Thanks-
Lew




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  9 03:49:28 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 02:49:28 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs 723 etc
Message-ID: <43C1CF38.3020307@burnit.co.uk>

Hi,

I'm almost getting to the stage where it's time to move my 
multi-compressor/gate/distortion project from the breadboard to PCB.  
The final piece to design is the PSU.

The requirements are not too unusual .. +/-15V at probably 200mA max, 
and I want it to run from a standard AC wallwart (or maybe I'll stick a 
transformer in the box - I haven't decided yet).  My first thought is to 
use a 7815 & 7915, but I'm wondering is there some 'better' PSU design?  
What are some other options, and what actually are the advantages in 
going for a more complex PSU?

I've seen plenty of power supplies based on the 723, but I don't need 
variable voltage or current limiting and it doesn't have to be exactly 
+/-15V - near enough will do as long as it is a clean DC voltage!  Would 
I expect to get less noise from a 723 based PSU compared to 7815/7915, 
or is this more a question of the smoothing, decoupling and board 
layout?  Are there any options which will make a better PSU than 
7815/7915 but without the complexity of a 723 based PSU?

Many questions, I hope some kind person can help me :)

Seb




From loscha at gmail.com  Mon Jan  9 04:00:15 2006
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:00:15 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs 723 etc
In-Reply-To: <43C1CF38.3020307@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43C1CF38.3020307@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0601081900s1002368bm79ecf4f830a7d6e0@mail.gmail.com>

Bang for your buck, board space, heatsinking wise ... the 7xxx series is
pretty hard to beat.
In my EE degree, we explored lots of options, other ways of doing things,
and the 7xxx came out on top any way you slice it.

-loscha

On 1/9/06, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm almost getting to the stage where it's time to move my
> multi-compressor/gate/distortion project from the breadboard to PCB.
> The final piece to design is the PSU.
>
> The requirements are not too unusual .. +/-15V at probably 200mA max,
> and I want it to run from a standard AC wallwart (or maybe I'll stick a
> transformer in the box - I haven't decided yet).  My first thought is to
> use a 7815 & 7915, but I'm wondering is there some 'better' PSU design?
> What are some other options, and what actually are the advantages in
> going for a more complex PSU?
>
> I've seen plenty of power supplies based on the 723, but I don't need
> variable voltage or current limiting and it doesn't have to be exactly
> +/-15V - near enough will do as long as it is a clean DC voltage!  Would
> I expect to get less noise from a 723 based PSU compared to 7815/7915,
> or is this more a question of the smoothing, decoupling and board
> layout?  Are there any options which will make a better PSU than
> 7815/7915 but without the complexity of a 723 based PSU?
>
> Many questions, I hope some kind person can help me :)
>
> Seb
>
>
>
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From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon Jan  9 04:05:01 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:05:01 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Midispeak / Speak'n'spell interface
Message-ID: <20060109030500.GV10396@moo.sysabend.org>

Just a quick followup.  The non-workingness of the midi interface was caused
by power supply differences between the various revs of speak'n'spells.  The
addition of a diode in the supply lead to the midi interface solved the
problem and it works fine.  Fun toy to play with :-)

http://www.highlyliquid.com/kits/midispeak/

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From MAMETZGER at partners.org  Mon Jan  9 12:59:48 2006
From: MAMETZGER at partners.org (Metzger, Michael A)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:59:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order
Message-ID: <A9658E6410587D419F1FBABC53CE614201CCEB77@PHSXMB13.partners.org>

I ordered all 3 values. Nothing received.
 
MIke
 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Tim Parkhurst
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 3:24 PM
To: Synth-DIY
Subject: [sdiy] Metrophage - tempco order


CJ / Metro, are you out there? I'm doing a little checking up for a person who
ordered some tempcos from you (he no longer subscribes to SDIY). 
 
Are there any others out there who haven't received their orders? I saw that
many of the orders (but not all) were filled in October, but some people were
still waiting, especially for the 1.87k parts. Who else is still waiting for
tempcos from Metrophage? 
 

Tim (defective detective) Servo
-- 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein 

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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  9 16:55:23 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:55:23 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs 723
 etc
In-Reply-To: <43C1CF38.3020307@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43C1CF38.3020307@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43C2876B.1060107@burnit.co.uk>

Someone just suggested the LM317/LM337 are supposed to be better than 
the 7XXX series.  Has anyone ever done a comparison between these?

Seb


Seb Francis wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm almost getting to the stage where it's time to move my 
> multi-compressor/gate/distortion project from the breadboard to PCB.  
> The final piece to design is the PSU.
>
> The requirements are not too unusual .. +/-15V at probably 200mA max, 
> and I want it to run from a standard AC wallwart (or maybe I'll stick 
> a transformer in the box - I haven't decided yet).  My first thought 
> is to use a 7815 & 7915, but I'm wondering is there some 'better' PSU 
> design?  What are some other options, and what actually are the 
> advantages in going for a more complex PSU?
>
> I've seen plenty of power supplies based on the 723, but I don't need 
> variable voltage or current limiting and it doesn't have to be exactly 
> +/-15V - near enough will do as long as it is a clean DC voltage!  
> Would I expect to get less noise from a 723 based PSU compared to 
> 7815/7915, or is this more a question of the smoothing, decoupling and 
> board layout?  Are there any options which will make a better PSU than 
> 7815/7915 but without the complexity of a 723 based PSU?
>
> Many questions, I hope some kind person can help me :)
>
> Seb
>
>
>
>



From jays at aracnet.com  Mon Jan  9 18:10:32 2006
From: jays at aracnet.com (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 09:10:32 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
In-Reply-To: <43C2876B.1060107@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGCEAACGAA.jays@aracnet.com>

Yes,

I wouldn't put 7XXX stuff in audio circuits. They are noisier than the
LM317/LM337. Linear Tech makes some even better ones. Might also look into
some of the new LDO (Low Drop Out) regulators. One problem now days is that
they spend most of the development doing positive regulators and not
negative ones. Mainly for all the low power portable equipment that is being
made. Thye don't need good neg regs so they aren't working to hard in that
area.

Check out the 4th bullet down:
<http://waltjung.org/Regs.html>

Happy soldering and to many more modules in our synths in 2006!
Jay S.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Seb Francis
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:55 AM
To: Synth DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs
723 etc


Someone just suggested the LM317/LM337 are supposed to be better than
the 7XXX series.  Has anyone ever done a comparison between these?

Seb


Seb Francis wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm almost getting to the stage where it's time to move my
> multi-compressor/gate/distortion project from the breadboard to PCB.
> The final piece to design is the PSU.
>
> The requirements are not too unusual .. +/-15V at probably 200mA max,
> and I want it to run from a standard AC wallwart (or maybe I'll stick
> a transformer in the box - I haven't decided yet).  My first thought
> is to use a 7815 & 7915, but I'm wondering is there some 'better' PSU
> design?  What are some other options, and what actually are the
> advantages in going for a more complex PSU?
>
> I've seen plenty of power supplies based on the 723, but I don't need
> variable voltage or current limiting and it doesn't have to be exactly
> +/-15V - near enough will do as long as it is a clean DC voltage!
> Would I expect to get less noise from a 723 based PSU compared to
> 7815/7915, or is this more a question of the smoothing, decoupling and
> board layout?  Are there any options which will make a better PSU than
> 7815/7915 but without the complexity of a 723 based PSU?
>
> Many questions, I hope some kind person can help me :)
>
> Seb
>
>
>
>




From rykhaard at gmail.com  Mon Jan  9 18:40:34 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 12:40:34 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] When building a White Noise module has anyone ......
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601090940x19bf9f1cwb9e0dcb267d1a224@mail.gmail.com>

had it emitting noise, all over the place - through the air??

I just flipped on the power to my modular, to test out a new (to me) noise
circuit from Ren? Schmitz.
Hooking up the roughly 2' banana patch cable to a VCF input, I get a lower
level white noise emitting all over the place. :O
Even with the Cutoff on the Filter down all of the way, and the input to my
VCA, down all of the way.

Another odd thing with it - the output level of the VCA, when it's between
about 10AM and 2PM is when I hear the noise.  Outside of those settings on
the VCA's output control - I hear nothing.

???

Outside of hooking up the WN module's output with a shielded cable, I am
STUMPED.  I've never had this happen before, with any other noise module,
that I've hard working. :O

Any ideas??

If it would help any - I have 0.1uF cap power supply filters all over the
board, as well as 100uF and 22 ohm resistors, on the V+ and V- inputs to the
entire board.

Thanks for any possible info, on this one. :O :)
If it's not easy to fix - I could still keep it on the board, for a source
to the Sample & Hold on the same PCB.  The noise is barely perceptible on
the power lines, at 20mV.  Seeing that though - maybe I should apply cap
filters to the PS inputs on the dual opamp, in the noise unit.
Off to investigate. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  9 18:53:46 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 10:53:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Caps (was Linear PSU options)
In-Reply-To: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGCEAACGAA.jays@aracnet.com>
References: <43C2876B.1060107@burnit.co.uk>
 <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGCEAACGAA.jays@aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060109105057.0342fb40@mail.earthlink.net>

Thanks Jay --

Also note that the articles on capacitors with Marsh are also on the Jung site:
http://waltjung.org/Classic_Articles.html

A must read for anyone trying to understand the subtle points of caps.

   Ian


At 10:10 AM 1/9/06, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
>Yes,
>
>I wouldn't put 7XXX stuff in audio circuits. They are noisier than the
>LM317/LM337. Linear Tech makes some even better ones. Might also look into
>some of the new LDO (Low Drop Out) regulators. One problem now days is that
>they spend most of the development doing positive regulators and not
>negative ones. Mainly for all the low power portable equipment that is being
>made. Thye don't need good neg regs so they aren't working to hard in that
>area.
>
>Check out the 4th bullet down:
><http://waltjung.org/Regs.html>




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  9 20:32:18 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 19:32:18 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs 723
 etc
In-Reply-To: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGCEAACGAA.jays@aracnet.com>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGCEAACGAA.jays@aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <43C2BA42.5030801@burnit.co.uk>

Thanks Jay, this is a great article .. just the kind of thing I'm 
looking for.

Seb


Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:

>Yes,
>
>I wouldn't put 7XXX stuff in audio circuits. They are noisier than the
>LM317/LM337. Linear Tech makes some even better ones. Might also look into
>some of the new LDO (Low Drop Out) regulators. One problem now days is that
>they spend most of the development doing positive regulators and not
>negative ones. Mainly for all the low power portable equipment that is being
>made. Thye don't need good neg regs so they aren't working to hard in that
>area.
>
>Check out the 4th bullet down:
><http://waltjung.org/Regs.html>
>
>Happy soldering and to many more modules in our synths in 2006!
>Jay S.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Seb Francis
>Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:55 AM
>To: Synth DIY
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs
>723 etc
>
>
>Someone just suggested the LM317/LM337 are supposed to be better than
>the 7XXX series.  Has anyone ever done a comparison between these?
>
>Seb
>
>
>Seb Francis wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm almost getting to the stage where it's time to move my
>>multi-compressor/gate/distortion project from the breadboard to PCB.
>>The final piece to design is the PSU.
>>
>>The requirements are not too unusual .. +/-15V at probably 200mA max,
>>and I want it to run from a standard AC wallwart (or maybe I'll stick
>>a transformer in the box - I haven't decided yet).  My first thought
>>is to use a 7815 & 7915, but I'm wondering is there some 'better' PSU
>>design?  What are some other options, and what actually are the
>>advantages in going for a more complex PSU?
>>
>>I've seen plenty of power supplies based on the 723, but I don't need
>>variable voltage or current limiting and it doesn't have to be exactly
>>+/-15V - near enough will do as long as it is a clean DC voltage!
>>Would I expect to get less noise from a 723 based PSU compared to
>>7815/7915, or is this more a question of the smoothing, decoupling and
>>board layout?  Are there any options which will make a better PSU than
>>7815/7915 but without the complexity of a 723 based PSU?
>>
>>Many questions, I hope some kind person can help me :)
>>
>>Seb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>  
>



From jays at aracnet.com  Mon Jan  9 20:43:26 2006
From: jays at aracnet.com (jays at aracnet.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:43:26 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] When building a White Noise module has anyone ......
Message-ID: <200601091943.k09JhQQK015344@sapphire.spiritone.com>

Rykhaard,

This sounds like the noise source maybe putting noise on the power supply or ground busses. This could transfer the noise to all modules in the system and cause things like VCAs to put out noise without anything hooked up.

You may want to put more filtering between the noise source and the filter. If the problem occurs when you hook up the filter you may want to try putting more filtering between the filter and power supply. Typically you will have a larger cap 10uf-47uf and a smaller cap 0.1-0.01 between each rail and ground. These MUST BE BETWEEN the power and module. DO NOT run power to the module, use it and then filter it.

Right: PS->Caps->Load
Wrong: PS->Load->Caps

Good luck.
Jay

Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:

> had it emitting noise, all over the place - through the air??
> 
> I just flipped on the power to my modular, to test out a new (to me) noise
> circuit from Ren=E9 Schmitz.
> Hooking up the roughly 2' banana patch cable to a VCF input, I get a lower
> level white noise emitting all over the place. :O
> Even with the Cutoff on the Filter down all of the way, and the input to my
> VCA, down all of the way.
> 
> Another odd thing with it - the output level of the VCA, when it's between
> about 10AM and 2PM is when I hear the noise.  Outside of those settings on
> the VCA's output control - I hear nothing.
> 
> ???
> 
> Outside of hooking up the WN module's output with a shielded cable, I am
> STUMPED.  I've never had this happen before, with any other noise module,
> that I've hard working. :O
> 
> Any ideas??
> 
> If it would help any - I have 0.1uF cap power supply filters all over the
> board, as well as 100uF and 22 ohm resistors, on the V+ and V- inputs to the
> entire board.
> 
> Thanks for any possible info, on this one. :O :)
> If it's not easy to fix - I could still keep it on the board, for a source
> to the Sample & Hold on the same PCB.  The noise is barely perceptible on
> the power lines, at 20mV.  Seeing that though - maybe I should apply cap
> filters to the PS inputs on the dual opamp, in the noise unit.
> Off to investigate. :)
> 
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
> 
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
> 0406 update



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Mon Jan  9 21:49:29 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:49:29 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
In-Reply-To: <43C2876B.1060107@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060109204929.14385.qmail@web25509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Forget about using 78xx/79xx, use the 317/337 they
are way better for SDIY use and general audio.

Ua723 are an old faggot (made in 1968) but way superior
to 317/337 and a "large number" of the never LDO,s on the 
market. The 723 is just the clasic regulator cirquit
assembled onto a chip.

They are all dirt cheap!

KD


--- Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> skrev:

> Someone just suggested the LM317/LM337 are supposed to be better than 
> the 7XXX series.  Has anyone ever done a comparison between these?
> 
> Seb
> 
> 
> Seb Francis wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm almost getting to the stage where it's time to move my 
> > multi-compressor/gate/distortion project from the breadboard to PCB.  
> > The final piece to design is the PSU.
> >
> > The requirements are not too unusual .. +/-15V at probably 200mA max, 
> > and I want it to run from a standard AC wallwart (or maybe I'll stick 
> > a transformer in the box - I haven't decided yet).  My first thought 
> > is to use a 7815 & 7915, but I'm wondering is there some 'better' PSU 
> > design?  What are some other options, and what actually are the 
> > advantages in going for a more complex PSU?
> >
> > I've seen plenty of power supplies based on the 723, but I don't need 
> > variable voltage or current limiting and it doesn't have to be exactly 
> > +/-15V - near enough will do as long as it is a clean DC voltage!  
> > Would I expect to get less noise from a 723 based PSU compared to 
> > 7815/7915, or is this more a question of the smoothing, decoupling and 
> > board layout?  Are there any options which will make a better PSU than 
> > 7815/7915 but without the complexity of a 723 based PSU?
> >
> > Many questions, I hope some kind person can help me :)
> >
> > Seb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Mon Jan  9 23:02:16 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 23:02:16 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
In-Reply-To: <20060109204929.14385.qmail@web25509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I forgot, if you want superior perfromance
for almost zero money but have to use your brain
use the 723, it can be used for negative voltages too.

If you want the least hasse and stress 
and no brain use, take the 317/337!

KD
(brain use means that the 723 is not
 entierly straight forward to use.)

--- karl dalen <dalenkarl at yahoo.se> skrev:

> Forget about using 78xx/79xx, use the 317/337 they
> are way better for SDIY use and general audio.
> 
> Ua723 are an old faggot (made in 1968) but way superior
> to 317/337 and a "large number" of the never LDO,s on the 
> market. The 723 is just the clasic regulator cirquit
> assembled onto a chip.
> 
> They are all dirt cheap!
> 
> KD
> 
> 
> --- Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> skrev:
> 
> > Someone just suggested the LM317/LM337 are supposed to be better than 
> > the 7XXX series.  Has anyone ever done a comparison between these?
> > 
> > Seb
> > 
> > 
> > Seb Francis wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm almost getting to the stage where it's time to move my 
> > > multi-compressor/gate/distortion project from the breadboard to PCB.  
> > > The final piece to design is the PSU.
> > >
> > > The requirements are not too unusual .. +/-15V at probably 200mA max, 
> > > and I want it to run from a standard AC wallwart (or maybe I'll stick 
> > > a transformer in the box - I haven't decided yet).  My first thought 
> > > is to use a 7815 & 7915, but I'm wondering is there some 'better' PSU 
> > > design?  What are some other options, and what actually are the 
> > > advantages in going for a more complex PSU?
> > >
> > > I've seen plenty of power supplies based on the 723, but I don't need 
> > > variable voltage or current limiting and it doesn't have to be exactly 
> > > +/-15V - near enough will do as long as it is a clean DC voltage!  
> > > Would I expect to get less noise from a 723 based PSU compared to 
> > > 7815/7915, or is this more a question of the smoothing, decoupling and 
> > > board layout?  Are there any options which will make a better PSU than 
> > > 7815/7915 but without the complexity of a 723 based PSU?
> > >
> > > Many questions, I hope some kind person can help me :)
> > >
> > > Seb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> 
> 



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan  9 23:59:57 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:59:57 +0000
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337
 vs 723 etc
In-Reply-To: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk>

Hi Karl,

Thanks for the replies.

I don't mind the brain bit .. I made the power supply for my modular 
with 2 723s so I can just recycle that brain power.  But the component 
count is quite high, so I was looking for a simpler solution (i.e. lower 
component count, less PCB real estate).

I've definitely rejected the 7815/7915 option now and at the moment am 
leaning towards the 317/337.

Seb


karl dalen wrote:

>I forgot, if you want superior perfromance
>for almost zero money but have to use your brain
>use the 723, it can be used for negative voltages too.
>
>If you want the least hasse and stress 
>and no brain use, take the 317/337!
>
>KD
>(brain use means that the 723 is not
> entierly straight forward to use.)
>
>--- karl dalen <dalenkarl at yahoo.se> skrev:
>
>  
>
>>Forget about using 78xx/79xx, use the 317/337 they
>>are way better for SDIY use and general audio.
>>
>>Ua723 are an old faggot (made in 1968) but way superior
>>to 317/337 and a "large number" of the never LDO,s on the 
>>market. The 723 is just the clasic regulator cirquit
>>assembled onto a chip.
>>
>>They are all dirt cheap!
>>
>>KD
>>
>>
>>--- Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> skrev:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Someone just suggested the LM317/LM337 are supposed to be better than 
>>>the 7XXX series.  Has anyone ever done a comparison between these?
>>>
>>>Seb
>>>
>>>
>>>Seb Francis wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>I'm almost getting to the stage where it's time to move my 
>>>>multi-compressor/gate/distortion project from the breadboard to PCB.  
>>>>The final piece to design is the PSU.
>>>>
>>>>The requirements are not too unusual .. +/-15V at probably 200mA max, 
>>>>and I want it to run from a standard AC wallwart (or maybe I'll stick 
>>>>a transformer in the box - I haven't decided yet).  My first thought 
>>>>is to use a 7815 & 7915, but I'm wondering is there some 'better' PSU 
>>>>design?  What are some other options, and what actually are the 
>>>>advantages in going for a more complex PSU?
>>>>
>>>>I've seen plenty of power supplies based on the 723, but I don't need 
>>>>variable voltage or current limiting and it doesn't have to be exactly 
>>>>+/-15V - near enough will do as long as it is a clean DC voltage!  
>>>>Would I expect to get less noise from a 723 based PSU compared to 
>>>>7815/7915, or is this more a question of the smoothing, decoupling and 
>>>>board layout?  Are there any options which will make a better PSU than 
>>>>7815/7915 but without the complexity of a 723 based PSU?
>>>>
>>>>Many questions, I hope some kind person can help me :)
>>>>
>>>>Seb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue Jan 10 00:15:48 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:15:48 +1100
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
References: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

There's another side to this regulator debate, and that is:
just how good does the regulated supply need to be?
When one looks at precision analog circuitry, you often see
power rails no better than you would get from a LM78xx,
but wherever a *really* precise voltage source is required, there is a 
precision source dedicated to just that. And it is right there on the 
board where it is wanted.
Which at a stroke solves the problem of noise generated on the 
power rails by switching transients etc.
And, speaking of transients...... anyone serious (including some
members here, I notice) have separate power rails for the digital stuff,
and for the analog that they try to keep noise free.
I personally think, the difference between the 78xx and other regs,
is swamped by these other techniques..... and if you want to go the 
whole distance, you are going to need to have precision voltage
diodes & separate analog/digital lines anyway!

paul perry Melbourne Australia


From jv at access-music.de  Tue Jan 10 00:38:43 2006
From: jv at access-music.de (Jay Vaughan)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:38:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] help me finish my 2xASM1-based modular system.. (ASM-X)
Message-ID: <a06110407bfe8a30c7311@[192.168.1.100]>

hi all,

i've finally received my ASM-1 boards (Gene Stopp originals!) from 
storage in LA, and its time now to complete this project .. i've got 
the boards completed, all components in and soldered and ready to go, 
so now its time for the following:

1. design a panel to accomodate two ASM-1 boards
2. wire the panel
3. hack up a power supply to handle both boards
4. hack up a CV/MIDI convertor to handle both boards

i was wondering if anyone on synth-diy had some opinions/suggestions 
for what i could do for #3/#4?  i'd like the 'easiest' option .. so 
if there is a module kit out there already that could possibly 
accomodate these two features (power and CV/MIDI) maybe someone wants 
to recommend it to me?

that said, i do have a pretty good idea for what i'm going to do 
about the panel .. and i think i may just end up keeping space for 
more modules to add to this system, sort of use the ASM-1's as a 
starting base for my 'dream' modular system, so what else can go 
along with the ASM1 design that would be of interest?

its been a few years since i dug into the ASM1 treasure-chest .. 
perhaps some of you (by now) old ASM1 pro's can give me a bit of 
enlightenment as to interesting directions to take with these boards? 
since its going to be constructed out of two complete ASM1 boards, 
i'm calling it the 'ASM-X' system, heh heh ..

-- 

;

Jay Vaughan



From zifcak at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 10 01:37:45 2006
From: zifcak at hotmail.com (gregory zifcak)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:37:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] help me finish my 2xASM1-based modular system.. (ASM-X)
In-Reply-To: <a06110407bfe8a30c7311@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F28D91FB6696E846741099ED3250@phx.gbl>

the paia midi2cv8 is the power supply and midi-cv for their modular system; 
perhaps it could work for you? the midi2cv8 has 8 cv outs with a bunch of 
different modes: 1 voice with controllers, 4 voices of cv/gate, 8 
controllers, 8 triggers, etc.


>From: Jay Vaughan <jv at access-music.de>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] help me finish my 2xASM1-based modular system.. (ASM-X)
>Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:38:43 +0100
>
>hi all,
>
>i've finally received my ASM-1 boards (Gene Stopp originals!) from storage 
>in LA, and its time now to complete this project .. i've got the boards 
>completed, all components in and soldered and ready to go, so now its time 
>for the following:
>
>1. design a panel to accomodate two ASM-1 boards
>2. wire the panel
>3. hack up a power supply to handle both boards
>4. hack up a CV/MIDI convertor to handle both boards
>
>i was wondering if anyone on synth-diy had some opinions/suggestions for 
>what i could do for #3/#4?  i'd like the 'easiest' option .. so if there is 
>a module kit out there already that could possibly accomodate these two 
>features (power and CV/MIDI) maybe someone wants to recommend it to me?
>
>that said, i do have a pretty good idea for what i'm going to do about the 
>panel .. and i think i may just end up keeping space for more modules to 
>add to this system, sort of use the ASM-1's as a starting base for my 
>'dream' modular system, so what else can go along with the ASM1 design that 
>would be of interest?
>
>its been a few years since i dug into the ASM1 treasure-chest .. perhaps 
>some of you (by now) old ASM1 pro's can give me a bit of enlightenment as 
>to interesting directions to take with these boards? since its going to be 
>constructed out of two complete ASM1 boards, i'm calling it the 'ASM-X' 
>system, heh heh ..
>
>--
>
>;
>
>Jay Vaughan
>




From elmacaco at nyc.rr.com  Tue Jan 10 01:41:00 2006
From: elmacaco at nyc.rr.com (elmacaco)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:41:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wavtable wavs?
References: <a06110407bfe8a30c7311@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <00a001c6157e$875931b0$3a39af44@santaelena>

OK, not technically SDIY stuff, but I'm looking for soundfiles of the
wavetables from stuff like the PPG Wave and prophet VS, I can;t seem to find
these as audio.

anyone know where these might be available?




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 10 01:46:54 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 00:46:54 +0000
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337
 vs 723 etc
In-Reply-To: <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
References: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk> <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <43C303FE.9020402@burnit.co.uk>

This is a very good point, but nevertheless many hi-end audio circuits 
do seem to use better than 7xxx PSUs.  Maybe this is kind of over the 
top audiophile engineering, but I'm not so sure.

In my application there isn't anything like a VCO that needs a really 
precise voltage, but there are however hi-end audio components (THAT 
VCAs in the compressor) that need to pass/process the audio with as 
little added noise as possible.  Also, the distortion processor elements 
have very high gain which will probably amplify any power supply noise.

So while I don't want to get over-complicated, if a 317/337 PSU can give 
lower noise than a 7815/7915 PSU with only an extra couple of resistors 
then it seems worth it (maybe I have some traces of audiophile in my 
genes! ;)

Seb

P.S. The only digital bit (a PIC micro for the MIDI interface) has its 
own 78L05 driven power rail.



Paul Perry wrote:

>There's another side to this regulator debate, and that is:
>just how good does the regulated supply need to be?
>When one looks at precision analog circuitry, you often see
>power rails no better than you would get from a LM78xx,
>but wherever a *really* precise voltage source is required, there is a 
>precision source dedicated to just that. And it is right there on the 
>board where it is wanted.
>Which at a stroke solves the problem of noise generated on the 
>power rails by switching transients etc.
>And, speaking of transients...... anyone serious (including some
>members here, I notice) have separate power rails for the digital stuff,
>and for the analog that they try to keep noise free.
>I personally think, the difference between the 78xx and other regs,
>is swamped by these other techniques..... and if you want to go the 
>whole distance, you are going to need to have precision voltage
>diodes & separate analog/digital lines anyway!
>
>paul perry Melbourne Australia
>
>
>  
>



From loscha at gmail.com  Tue Jan 10 01:53:17 2006
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:53:17 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Wavtable wavs?
In-Reply-To: <00a001c6157e$875931b0$3a39af44@santaelena>
References: <a06110407bfe8a30c7311@192.168.1.100>
	 <00a001c6157e$875931b0$3a39af44@santaelena>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0601091653w1c2f8508uf8e8cf9456ea7144@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.ppg.synth.net/waveterm/wt_lib.shtml
This might do the trick for ya, you'll have to convert them back to RAW,
though, cause they're Wave files.

On 1/10/06, elmacaco <elmacaco at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> OK, not technically SDIY stuff, but I'm looking for soundfiles of the
> wavetables from stuff like the PPG Wave and prophet VS, I can;t seem to
> find
> these as audio.
>
> anyone know where these might be available?
>
>
>
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From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Tue Jan 10 02:12:18 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:12:18 -0800
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
In-Reply-To: <43C303FE.9020402@burnit.co.uk>
References: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	 <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk>
	 <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
	 <43C303FE.9020402@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87441170601091712r4795902fp2e0c8224c0df4d2d@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/9/06, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>
> This is a very good point, but nevertheless many hi-end audio circuits
> do seem to use better than 7xxx PSUs.  Maybe this is kind of over the
> top audiophile engineering, but I'm not so sure.
>
> In my application there isn't anything like a VCO that needs a really
> precise voltage, but there are however hi-end audio components (THAT
> VCAs in the compressor) that need to pass/process the audio with as
> little added noise as possible.  Also, the distortion processor elements
> have very high gain which will probably amplify any power supply noise.
>
> So while I don't want to get over-complicated, if a 317/337 PSU can give
> lower noise than a 7815/7915 PSU with only an extra couple of resistors
> then it seems worth it (maybe I have some traces of audiophile in my
> genes! ;)
>
> Seb
>
> P.S. The only digital bit (a PIC micro for the MIDI interface) has its
> own 78L05 driven power rail.
>
>
>
> Paul Perry wrote:
>
> >There's another side to this regulator debate, and that is:
> >just how good does the regulated supply need to be?
> >When one looks at precision analog circuitry, you often see
> >power rails no better than you would get from a LM78xx,
> >but wherever a *really* precise voltage source is required, there is a
> >precision source dedicated to just that. And it is right there on the
> >board where it is wanted.
> >Which at a stroke solves the problem of noise generated on the
> >power rails by switching transients etc.
> >And, speaking of transients...... anyone serious (including some
> >members here, I notice) have separate power rails for the digital stuff,
> >and for the analog that they try to keep noise free.
> >I personally think, the difference between the 78xx and other regs,
> >is swamped by these other techniques..... and if you want to go the
> >whole distance, you are going to need to have precision voltage
> >diodes & separate analog/digital lines anyway!
> >
> >paul perry Melbourne Australia
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
The ARP Odyssey has a pretty good dual tracking supply built around the
723...
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/diy_archive/manuals/arp/odyssey/ody_40.gif

Tim (trying to type with a cat on my lap) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan 10 02:13:36 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:13:36 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] When building a White Noise module has anyone ......
References: <b6b288a70601090940x19bf9f1cwb9e0dcb267d1a224@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C30A40.A223CFE9@prodigy.net>

One idea...

Power the noise module, alone... from a couple of batteries.

Remove it entierly from the modular, and hook it up with only
two wires... a ground and a signal.  One shielded cable should
be sufficient.

If your problems go away... you have power supply or grounding
issues.

If they don't go away... you have something VERY strange in your
noise module.

You migth try the noise module with only ONE wire... the ground.

You can try your noise module with NO wires.

(I once showed a manufacturer that I could noise hit their solid
state relay modules through the air... but totally floating their
module and making a noise spike nearby.  They had been blaming EVERYONE
else for the problem for months. After that, they went home quietly
and fixed their sh!t !!!)

Where can you see the noise on the scope ???

H^) harry


"Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N." wrote:
> 
> had it emitting noise, all over the place - through the air??
> 
> I just flipped on the power to my modular, to test out a new (to me)
> noise circuit from Ren? Schmitz.
> Hooking up the roughly 2' banana patch cable to a VCF input, I get a
> lower level white noise emitting all over the place. :O
> Even with the Cutoff on the Filter down all of the way, and the input
> to my VCA, down all of the way.
> 
> Another odd thing with it - the output level of the VCA, when it's
> between about 10AM and 2PM is when I hear the noise.  Outside of those
> settings on the VCA's output control - I hear nothing.
> 
> ???
> 
> Outside of hooking up the WN module's output with a shielded cable, I
> am STUMPED.  I've never had this happen before, with any other noise
> module, that I've hard working. :O
> 
> Any ideas??
> 
> If it would help any - I have 0.1uF cap power supply filters all over
> the board, as well as 100uF and 22 ohm resistors, on the V+ and V-
> inputs to the entire board.
> 
> Thanks for any possible info, on this one. :O :)
> If it's not easy to fix - I could still keep it on the board, for a
> source to the Sample & Hold on the same PCB.  The noise is barely
> perceptible on the power lines, at 20mV.  Seeing that though - maybe I
> should apply cap filters to the PS inputs on the dual opamp, in the
> noise unit.
> Off to investigate. :)
> 
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
> 
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
> Jan. 0406 update


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan 10 02:15:49 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:15:49 -0500
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs 723
 etc
References: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk> <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <43C30AC5.888A2BBF@prodigy.net>

Amen.  What he said !!!

H^) harry

Paul Perry wrote:
> 
> There's another side to this regulator debate, and that is:
> just how good does the regulated supply need to be?
> When one looks at precision analog circuitry, you often see
> power rails no better than you would get from a LM78xx,
> but wherever a *really* precise voltage source is required, there is a
> precision source dedicated to just that. And it is right there on the
> board where it is wanted.
> Which at a stroke solves the problem of noise generated on the
> power rails by switching transients etc.
> And, speaking of transients...... anyone serious (including some
> members here, I notice) have separate power rails for the digital stuff,
> and for the analog that they try to keep noise free.
> I personally think, the difference between the 78xx and other regs,
> is swamped by these other techniques..... and if you want to go the
> whole distance, you are going to need to have precision voltage
> diodes & separate analog/digital lines anyway!
> 
> paul perry Melbourne Australia


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan 10 02:33:09 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:33:09 -0500
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337vs 723
 etc
References: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk> <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43C303FE.9020402@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43C30ED5.64CB9EDA@prodigy.net>

If you have traces of audiophile in your jeans... I'd get a 
new wardrobe...

Some 'audiophiles' may choose a circuit topology that is very
sensitive to power supply noise... for some other esoteric reasons
(unknown and unknowable to mere mortals :^)

Engineering is a total package...  sometimes sloppy engineers
(now raise your hands if you're one - my hand is up) will specify
a component without looking at the total 'error budget'.  I once
spec'd an LM4040BIZ for a reference. When the manufacturer could not
get them... I studied carefully and found that even the BARGAIN
grade 4040DIZ would be way less error than anything else in the
total system.

These self-same 'audiophiles' might eschew DECOUPLING caps because of
their
inferior sonic performance... or the 'coloration' of the sound. Some of
them
might even LIKE the sound of power supply related coupling. (like a
no-feedback
design that really DOES have feedback, through the supply :^)

Hey... Audiophiles like TUBES.  I have heard many people rave about tube
amp designs that have enough residual white noise to make Rykhaard
D.A.M.I.A.N
envious. I agree they sound good... but I just ignore the hiss, its easy
to
do and probably most listeners have trained themselves to do so since
childhood !

That said, I use the 723 designs all the time... in module form from
PowerOne
(and such ilk).  If I was doing my own supply... the 78xx and 79xx would
be
the first weapon of choice for a fixed regulator, follwed by higher
grade
fixed regulators (error budget again) followed by the LM317 337... IF I
needed
and adjustable regulator.

GACK. NOW I REMEMBER YOU :^P
You're using a 4069 as a distortion element and worried about the 78xx
noise ???
Dude, kick back and take a (insert relaxant of your choice here).  Try
the
generic power supply design... then some decent layout techniques...

... if that does not work, then add the premium power supply... and the
Mu Metal
shield to keep the magnetic flux from your own, and everyone else's
transformers
out of the mix.  That will be a bigger hit than the 78xx.

If you did the board and decoupling right, the power supply noise is
most often not an issue. I agree with Paul Perry's post on the subject
of local references
when needed.

H^) harry

Seb Francis wrote:
> 
> This is a very good point, but nevertheless many hi-end audio circuits
> do seem to use better than 7xxx PSUs.  Maybe this is kind of over the
> top audiophile engineering, but I'm not so sure.
> 
> In my application there isn't anything like a VCO that needs a really
> precise voltage, but there are however hi-end audio components (THAT
> VCAs in the compressor) that need to pass/process the audio with as
> little added noise as possible.  Also, the distortion processor elements
> have very high gain which will probably amplify any power supply noise.
> 
> So while I don't want to get over-complicated, if a 317/337 PSU can give
> lower noise than a 7815/7915 PSU with only an extra couple of resistors
> then it seems worth it (maybe I have some traces of audiophile in my
> genes! ;)
> 
> Seb
> 
> P.S. The only digital bit (a PIC micro for the MIDI interface) has its
> own 78L05 driven power rail.
> 
> Paul Perry wrote:
> 
> >There's another side to this regulator debate, and that is:
> >just how good does the regulated supply need to be?
> >When one looks at precision analog circuitry, you often see
> >power rails no better than you would get from a LM78xx,
> >but wherever a *really* precise voltage source is required, there is a
> >precision source dedicated to just that. And it is right there on the
> >board where it is wanted.
> >Which at a stroke solves the problem of noise generated on the
> >power rails by switching transients etc.
> >And, speaking of transients...... anyone serious (including some
> >members here, I notice) have separate power rails for the digital stuff,
> >and for the analog that they try to keep noise free.
> >I personally think, the difference between the 78xx and other regs,
> >is swamped by these other techniques..... and if you want to go the
> >whole distance, you are going to need to have precision voltage
> >diodes & separate analog/digital lines anyway!
> >
> >paul perry Melbourne Australia
> >
> >
> >
> >


From creekree at gmx.de  Tue Jan 10 04:19:26 2006
From: creekree at gmx.de (creekree at gmx.de)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:19:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] where to get really small potis in germany?
Message-ID: <43C327BE.1010300@gmx.de>

hi all,

so i am taking my 606 mod goodness to a higher level... i am fed up 
having an extra box attached.
i want to put the tonal controls inside the 606 case, therefore i need 
SMALL potis.
i know there are some 9mm ones out there, but where can i order those in 
germany?
i really am not too happy with ordering them from the us (postage, tax 
and all)... there must be a european source.
could somebody please push me in the right direction? so far i have not 
been able to find a seller for those.

thank you, christian



From aurastar at cox.net  Tue Jan 10 05:45:10 2006
From: aurastar at cox.net (DTK)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 23:45:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] More MG-1 Mods completed...
Message-ID: <002801c615a0$a3a09a80$6400a8c0@hr.cox.net>

Well, I'm just short of ecstatic...

Having just received my CV-5 I had set my mind to finally doing a couple of
mods to the MG-1 to make the 2 play nice together.  So now my MG-1 has a
Gate in (instead of S-trig) Filter CV input, and Detune CV input, all
working quite nicely.

I am getting the *sickest* sync mod sounds out of it right now... it's
really unbelievable to hear my little humble MG making noise like this :)

I'll be working on adding PWM via CV next... and then, I'm out of ideas, and
I still have 1 more CV source left.  Anyone have any suggestions?  :)  I've
been searching my schematic but I think I may have all the MG's
voltage-controlled parameters covered...

Anyway, just had to share...

D



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Tue Jan 10 07:01:09 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:01:09 -0500
Subject: Fwd: [sdiy] When building a White Noise module has anyone ......
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601092200l212eca3aw2dae672f984a045@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200601091943.k09JhQQK015344@sapphire.spiritone.com>
	 <b6b288a70601092200l212eca3aw2dae672f984a045@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601092201q1a85821ex9c6463b51000be8d@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. <rykhaard at gmail.com>
Date: Jan 10, 2006 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] When building a White Noise module has anyone ......
To: "jays at aracnet.com" <jays at aracnet.com>

On 1/9/06, jays at aracnet.com <jays at aracnet.com> wrote:
>
> Rykhaard,
>
> This sounds like the noise source maybe putting noise on the power supply
> or ground busses. This could transfer the noise to all modules in the system
> and cause things like VCAs to put out noise without anything hooked up.


That IS, what has happened.  Without the noise output hooked up to either
the VCF or the VCA, I could still hear the noise at a low level.
When I removed the 2nd opamp's 100K (1 to 100 amplifier) resistor and
replaced it with a 100K pot, I got rid of the problem of the noise
transferring to the other modules, when it wasn't hooked up.
I noticed on the scope, that at full amplification, the noise was clipping
at certain peaks, as well.
Turning the amplification knob down, to about 1/3, got rid of any clipping
and completely removed the noise from the circuit.
Hooking up the noise output then, to the VCF, which had it's output hooked
up to the VCA, seemed to allow normal operation.
Still some minor concerns with it though, with the VCA's Main output still
having the 'on' portion, between 10am and 2pm. :(  Outside of this Noise
module, the VCAs function normally ......

You may want to put more filtering between the noise source and the filter.
> If the problem occurs when you hook up the filter you may want to try
> putting more filtering between the filter and power supply. Typically you
> will have a larger cap 10uf-47uf and a smaller cap 0.1-0.01 between each
> rail and ground. These MUST BE BETWEEN the power and module. DO NOT run
> power to the module, use it and then filter it.
>
> Right: PS->Caps->Load
> Wrong: PS->Load->Caps
>
> Good luck.
> Jay
>

Aye.  Standard procedure. :)  I've used 100uF caps on each of my +/- inputs
almost since day one in 1992. :)  (This is my 4th or 5th working noise
module and the first time I've ever had a trouble like this. :( )

Filtering, seems to be the trouble.  For the dual opamp of the noise module,
I've only a 0.1uF at it's + supply pin; the caps for it as required, and the
100uF's at the power input of the entire board itself.

Thanks to help from yourself and Harry, following your message - it'll get
figured out. :)
--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
1006 update

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Tue Jan 10 07:13:05 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:13:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] When building a White Noise module has anyone ......
In-Reply-To: <43C30A40.A223CFE9@prodigy.net>
References: <b6b288a70601090940x19bf9f1cwb9e0dcb267d1a224@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43C30A40.A223CFE9@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601092213j2653e352we397ed41720c6c12@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/9/06, harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> One idea...
>
> Power the noise module, alone... from a couple of batteries.
>
> Remove it entierly from the modular, and hook it up with only
> two wires... a ground and a signal.  One shielded cable should
> be sufficient.
>
> If your problems go away... you have power supply or grounding
> issues.
>
> If they don't go away... you have something VERY strange in your
> noise module.


K.  Thanks Harry. :)  I never thought of that.  :)
With the progress that I'd made, after I'd writ the original message, I
don't think that it's too severe. :)  But, I'm still going to try your
suggestion, anyways. :)

You migth try the noise module with only ONE wire... the ground.
>
> You can try your noise module with NO wires.


This was close to how it was, when I first powered up.  It was hooked up
(outside of power) only to the scope, to verify it's operation, or not.  )
1st - 2N3904 (100 times + 100 times amplification) - almost rail to rail
noise on the scope
2nd - 2N2712 (same amplification) - noise on the scope was about 60mV peak
to peak
3rd - different 2N3904 (same as 1st)

As I'd said in my last message - changing the 2nd amp to a pot, helped
greatly. :)

I'm still going to check into extra filtering as well, though.  With the
full amplification and the 2 foot banana cord, just moving the cable away
from any other patch cables, greatly helped reduce the amplitude of the
noise, through the system. :O

(I once showed a manufacturer that I could noise hit their solid
> state relay modules through the air... but totally floating their
> module and making a noise spike nearby.  They had been blaming EVERYONE
> else for the problem for months. After that, they went home quietly
> and fixed their sh!t !!!)
>
> Where can you see the noise on the scope ???
>
> H^) harry


Harry!  You have ALL of the fun in life, with electrical things!  :D :D
Blaming every1 else, for months. :O  hahahahaha. :D  Cool experience. :O :)

The noise on the scope, through all above mentionings, is properly centered
about ground, as well.  No offsets.  It's good looking, anyways. :)

I figured at worst case - if I couldn't get this 'repaired' properly, I
would just keep a lower amplitude version of it running, as a switch on /
off source for the on board Sample & Hold only. :)  Shall see what happens
tomorrow. :)

I came up with a new VCO idea tonight at work.  I'm off to the Design
section of my webpage, to post it at. :)

Thank you both, greatly, for your help and suggestions! :O :O

Funny in a way - I come back to building modular gear, after almost 10 years
- forgetting a lot of stuff - and run in to completely NEW problems. :O
Hahaha.  All part of learning.  And the help is far beyond, appreciated,
from everyone. :O
Someday - I hope to be able to do the same, for others. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From patchell at cox.net  Tue Jan 10 07:26:54 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:26:54 -0800
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs
  LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
In-Reply-To: <43C303FE.9020402@burnit.co.uk>
References: <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
 <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
 <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk>
 <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060109222046.01f468a0@pop.west.cox.net>

All I can say is that I have designed systems with less that 0.4nV/root Hz, 
which is a lot better than almost any audio systems, and have used 
78xx/79xx regulators without any problems at all.  A properly designed 
amplifier, or any circuit for that matter, will not care what the noise 
level on the power supply is.  Generally, all I care about is that the 
power supply have a good low impedance.

At 12:46 AM 1/10/2006 +0000, Seb Francis wrote:
>This is a very good point, but nevertheless many hi-end audio circuits do 
>seem to use better than 7xxx PSUs.  Maybe this is kind of over the top 
>audiophile engineering, but I'm not so sure.
>
>In my application there isn't anything like a VCO that needs a really 
>precise voltage, but there are however hi-end audio components (THAT VCAs 
>in the compressor) that need to pass/process the audio with as little 
>added noise as possible.  Also, the distortion processor elements have 
>very high gain which will probably amplify any power supply noise.
>
>So while I don't want to get over-complicated, if a 317/337 PSU can give 
>lower noise than a 7815/7915 PSU with only an extra couple of resistors 
>then it seems worth it (maybe I have some traces of audiophile in my genes! ;)
>
>Seb
>
>P.S. The only digital bit (a PIC micro for the MIDI interface) has its own 
>78L05 driven power rail.
>
>
>
>Paul Perry wrote:
>
>>There's another side to this regulator debate, and that is:
>>just how good does the regulated supply need to be?
>>When one looks at precision analog circuitry, you often see
>>power rails no better than you would get from a LM78xx,
>>but wherever a *really* precise voltage source is required, there is a 
>>precision source dedicated to just that. And it is right there on the 
>>board where it is wanted.
>>Which at a stroke solves the problem of noise generated on the power 
>>rails by switching transients etc.
>>And, speaking of transients...... anyone serious (including some
>>members here, I notice) have separate power rails for the digital stuff,
>>and for the analog that they try to keep noise free.
>>I personally think, the difference between the 78xx and other regs,
>>is swamped by these other techniques..... and if you want to go the whole 
>>distance, you are going to need to have precision voltage
>>diodes & separate analog/digital lines anyway!
>>
>>paul perry Melbourne Australia
>>
>>
>>
>

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************




From tom.adam at telenet.be  Tue Jan 10 09:58:59 2006
From: tom.adam at telenet.be (tom.adam at telenet.be)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:58:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
Message-ID: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>

How are you guys getting prepared for this RoHS compliance situation?
I heard that the sequentix P3 Kit will no longer be available due to RoHS.
Apparently IC sockets are no longer in stock @ some suppliers.

So what should I be stockpiling...


Cheers,
ToAd





From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Tue Jan 10 10:10:25 2006
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 03:10:25 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] When building a White Noise module has anyone ......
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601092213j2653e352we397ed41720c6c12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b288a70601090940x19bf9f1cwb9e0dcb267d1a224@mail.gmail.com>	 <43C30A40.A223CFE9@prodigy.net> <b6b288a70601092213j2653e352we397ed41720c6c12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C37A01.6010307@ix.netcom.com>

What type of amplifier are you using?
Sounds like the rail-rail clipping of the amplifier is producing (or 
transmitting) RF harmonics though the 2ft patch cord (antenna).
You might try a slower op-amp in the stage that is clipping.
- Oren

Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
> On 1/9/06, *harrybissell* <harrybissell at prodigy.net 
> <mailto:harrybissell at prodigy.net>> wrote:
> 
>     One idea...
> 
>     Power the noise module, alone... from a couple of batteries.
> 
>     Remove it entierly from the modular, and hook it up with only
>     two wires... a ground and a signal.  One shielded cable should
>     be sufficient.
> 
>     If your problems go away... you have power supply or grounding
>     issues.
> 
>     If they don't go away... you have something VERY strange in your
>     noise module.
> 
> 
> K.  Thanks Harry. :)  I never thought of that.  :) 
> With the progress that I'd made, after I'd writ the original message, I 
> don't think that it's too severe. :)  But, I'm still going to try your 
> suggestion, anyways. :)
> 
>     You migth try the noise module with only ONE wire... the ground.
> 
>     You can try your noise module with NO wires.
> 
> 
> This was close to how it was, when I first powered up.  It was hooked up 
> (outside of power) only to the scope, to verify it's operation, or not.  )
> 1st - 2N3904 (100 times + 100 times amplification) - almost rail to rail 
> noise on the scope
> 2nd - 2N2712 (same amplification) - noise on the scope was about 60mV 
> peak to peak
> 3rd - different 2N3904 (same as 1st)
> 
> As I'd said in my last message - changing the 2nd amp to a pot, helped 
> greatly. :)
> 
> I'm still going to check into extra filtering as well, though.  With the 
> full amplification and the 2 foot banana cord, just moving the cable 
> away from any other patch cables, greatly helped reduce the amplitude of 
> the noise, through the system. :O
> 
>     (I once showed a manufacturer that I could noise hit their solid
>     state relay modules through the air... but totally floating their
>     module and making a noise spike nearby.  They had been blaming EVERYONE
>     else for the problem for months. After that, they went home quietly
>     and fixed their sh!t !!!)
> 
>     Where can you see the noise on the scope ???
> 
>     H^) harry
> 
> 
> Harry!  You have ALL of the fun in life, with electrical things!  :D :D
> Blaming every1 else, for months. :O  hahahahaha. :D  Cool experience. :O :)
> 
> The noise on the scope, through all above mentionings, is properly 
> centered about ground, as well.  No offsets.  It's good looking, 
> anyways. :)
> 
> I figured at worst case - if I couldn't get this 'repaired' properly, I 
> would just keep a lower amplitude version of it running, as a switch on 
> / off source for the on board Sample & Hold only. :)  Shall see what 
> happens tomorrow. :)
> 
> I came up with a new VCO idea tonight at work.  I'm off to the Design 
> section of my webpage, to post it at. :)
> 
> Thank you both, greatly, for your help and suggestions! :O :O
> 
> Funny in a way - I come back to building modular gear, after almost 10 
> years - forgetting a lot of stuff - and run in to completely NEW 
> problems. :O  Hahaha.  All part of learning.  And the help is far 
> beyond, appreciated, from everyone. :O 
> Someday - I hope to be able to do the same, for others. :)
> 
> -- 
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
> 
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - 
> Jan. 0406 update


From colin at colinfraser.com  Tue Jan 10 10:36:28 2006
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:36:28 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <001b01c615c9$5561a430$0101a8c0@zen2>

 
> Apparently IC sockets are no longer in stock @ some suppliers.

Fortunately it turned out it there are another range of sockets available at
my supplier.
I guess these are RoHS compliant and the older ones weren't.
Still, it gave me a fright when the part numbers I've been using for years
came up 'last stock'.

Building things for yourself and building things to sell are different.
You will probably find you can still buy many non-RoHS compliant parts for a
long time, because they can legally be used in repair of older equipment,
or, as I understand it, you'll be able to use non-compliant parts in new
equipment as long as you have no intention of selling it.

Cheers,
Colin f




From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Jan 10 11:34:26 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:34:26 +0100
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337 vs 723  etc
References: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk> <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43C30AC5.888A2BBF@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <002401c615d1$a58bf980$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

Amen, too.

I'm mostly using LM317, but not because of the noise.
You can improve the noise a lot on a 317 with an extra
capacitor and diode, see data sheet,  - but I rarely do this.
What I like about the 317 is that you can trim it to the exact
voltage easily.

Always design your Audio circuits as if you had a very noisy
power supply. Noise from the regulator, or spikes from
other modules, you don't want them to go into your audio.
Always filter manual CVs that are derived from the supply
voltage with potentiometers.

JH.


> Amen.  What he said !!!
>
> H^) harry
>
> Paul Perry wrote:
> >
> > There's another side to this regulator debate, and that is:
> > just how good does the regulated supply need to be?
> > When one looks at precision analog circuitry, you often see
> > power rails no better than you would get from a LM78xx,
> > but wherever a *really* precise voltage source is required, there is a
> > precision source dedicated to just that. And it is right there on the
> > board where it is wanted.
> > Which at a stroke solves the problem of noise generated on the
> > power rails by switching transients etc.
> > And, speaking of transients...... anyone serious (including some
> > members here, I notice) have separate power rails for the digital stuff,
> > and for the analog that they try to keep noise free.
> > I personally think, the difference between the 78xx and other regs,
> > is swamped by these other techniques..... and if you want to go the
> > whole distance, you are going to need to have precision voltage
> > diodes & separate analog/digital lines anyway!
> >
> > paul perry Melbourne Australia
>



From lenham at clara.co.uk  Tue Jan 10 15:39:21 2006
From: lenham at clara.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:39:21 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] DC/DC converters
References: <031614A0C3206A4192CC39A42A33D3F68A6C54@seupp-srv-email.ad.iar.com>
Message-ID: <006901c615f3$a51c0130$0202a8c0@DELL>

> Hi all!
>
> I need a +5/+12/-12 supply for my new digital/analog project with one DC
> adapter input.
>
> I was planning to use a 7805 for the digital and a DC/DC converter for
> the +/-12V. I found this one from TRACO:
> http://www.elfa.se/pdf/69/06958912.pdf
>
> It has 50mVpp ripple/noise and 400kHz switching frequency. This should
> be no problem for analog audio right? Most linear regulators has more
> noise and ripple than that, I expect.
>
> Does anyone have experience with TRACO or DC/DC converters in analog
> audio?

Hi Fredrik,

I worked for a company making professional Outside Broadcast audio equipment 
and we used the Traco DC-DC converters regularly with no problems. We would 
always add an extra L-C filter stage on each output, mounted close to the 
converter - for example a cheap 1mH drum inductor and a 47u electrolytic 
plus a 100n poly - and that reduced the ripple to an even lower level.

That should be good enough for most analogue audio apps - as per the recent 
thread, anything more critical should probably have a local reference or 
locally decoupled supply anyway and not rely on the global PSU performance.

Hope that helps,

Steve L.






From aurastar at cox.net  Tue Jan 10 15:39:24 2006
From: aurastar at cox.net (DTK)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:39:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] More MG-1 Mods completed...
References: <002801c615a0$a3a09a80$6400a8c0@hr.cox.net> <43C37AC9.60603@consol.de>
Message-ID: <001801c615f3$a73459e0$6400a8c0@hr.cox.net>

Hey Florian, interesting idea, but I'm not sure I can make it a reality ...
The poly voice in the MG-1 can only be triggered by the keyboard. I'm using
a midi-cv interface, so I'm not really playing it from the keyboard.

Is there a way that I can get this to work when controlling the synth via
cv/gate??

D

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Florian Anwander" <Florian.Anwander at consol.de>
To: "DTK" <aurastar at cox.net>
Cc: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>; "Analog Heaven"
<analogue at hyperreal.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: [AH] More MG-1 Mods completed...


> Hi D
>
> just a little hint:
> > I am getting the *sickest* sync mod sounds out of it right now... it's
> > really unbelievable to hear my little humble MG making noise like this
:)
> Add a switch which feeds the output of the polysection to the sync-in of
> the VCO. The MG-1 will sound like Eddie van Halens guitar!
>
> Florian


From lenham at clara.co.uk  Tue Jan 10 15:46:16 2006
From: lenham at clara.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:46:16 -0000
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs  LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
References: <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk> <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <5.2.1.1.2.20060109222046.01f468a0@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <006e01c615f4$9c409700$0202a8c0@DELL>

> All I can say is that I have designed systems with less that 0.4nV/root 
> Hz, which is a lot better than almost any audio systems, and have used 
> 78xx/79xx regulators without any problems at all.  A properly designed 
> amplifier, or any circuit for that matter, will not care what the noise 
> level on the power supply is.  Generally, all I care about is that the 
> power supply have a good low impedance.

I can back up what James says - I've worked on high-gain mic preamps 
with -130dB noise levels which still used 78xx regulators and nothing more 
than a 100 ohm/47uF RC filter for the supply to the front end. Far more of a 
headache was a) hum pickup from the mains transformer and b) getting the 
ground layout right on the circuit board.

Steve L.




From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Tue Jan 10 15:50:19 2006
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:50:19 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] cgs updates - new modules
Message-ID: <20060110145019.9085D2C4@stiletto.hotkey.net.au>

I've added a couple of new modules to my lineup -

CGS62 Slope Detector 
The slope detector is an event-driven gate/trigger generating device. It
monitors a control voltage, and triggers one of three "gate" output
dependent on what the control voltage is doing. 

CGS63 Power Supply Delay 
Does your commercial PSU fail to start propperly? Does one power rail remain
off? If so, this module will solve your problems. 


Have fun,

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au or sasami at cgs.synth.net
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>


From clark at andrews.edu  Tue Jan 10 16:57:50 2006
From: clark at andrews.edu (clark at andrews.edu)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:57:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>


> How are you guys getting prepared for this RoHS compliance situation?
> I heard that the sequentix P3 Kit will no longer be available due to RoHS.
> Apparently IC sockets are no longer in stock @ some suppliers.
>
> So what should I be stockpiling...

   The good news is that most parts are now being shipped lead-free,
especially ICs and most passive parts (resistors caps).  The hardest
items to get in lead-free tend to be controls (switches, pots, etc),
but I've found that even these have largely moved or are moving to
lead-free.
   If you plan to SELL any product, you should note that it isn't good
enough just to buy lead-free parts and then say your product is
lead-free.  You MUST get documentation from the manufacturer for EVERY
part that certifies that the particular part is RoHS compliant.  Only
then should you state that your product is compliant.
   I'm currently doing this for all of the products my company makes and
it is a pain.  Every little part, whether it be a screw or a sticker
has to have some form or documentation.  But overall it is more of a
hassle and the issue of parts availability is a non-issue.  The bigger
issue is just the manufacturing portion of doing lead-free.  So far the
biggest damage done is that it obsoleted our $12K wave soldering
machine since the solder pots aren't compatible with lead-free solder. 
:P  Oh well....

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From peter at buzzclick-music.com  Tue Jan 10 17:32:29 2006
From: peter at buzzclick-music.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:32:29 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <BFE9219D.2B21B%peter@buzzclick-music.com>

clark at andrews.edu wrote:

> If you plan to SELL any product, you should note that it isn't good
> enough just to buy lead-free parts and then say your product is
> lead-free.  You MUST get documentation from the manufacturer for EVERY
> part that certifies that the particular part is RoHS compliant.  Only
> then should you state that your product is compliant.

There's also a sticker that needs to be put on each box.  I dont'  know if
that applies to inner boxes or just one on the outer carton.  Basically,
It's a real drag, especially if you ship yourself.  This is one big reason
we've gone with distribution.



From colin at colinfraser.com  Tue Jan 10 17:51:38 2006
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:51:38 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c61606$1fca8a20$0101a8c0@zen2>

 
>    The good news is that most parts are now being shipped lead-free,
> especially ICs and most passive parts (resistors caps).  The hardest
> items to get in lead-free tend to be controls (switches, pots, etc),
> but I've found that even these have largely moved or are moving to
> lead-free.

There are a number of parts that the manufacturers websites say they have
updated, but the distributors I use aren't carrying the compliant parts. It
remains to be seen whether they will, and to complete certification in time
for July, they're cutting it a bit fine.
In the case of Farnell, non-compliant parts often have a link to an
'alternative' RoHS compliant part. But I've been finding they consider SMT
to be an alternative to DIP...

Cheers,
Colin f



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Tue Jan 10 18:48:20 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:48:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] When building a White Noise module has anyone ......
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601100637y7278e872v29a1659adddf2043@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b288a70601090940x19bf9f1cwb9e0dcb267d1a224@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43C30A40.A223CFE9@prodigy.net>
	 <b6b288a70601092213j2653e352we397ed41720c6c12@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43C37A01.6010307@ix.netcom.com>
	 <b6b288a70601100637y7278e872v29a1659adddf2043@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601100948o3fb3acadw172ca6e3be148038@mail.gmail.com>

Further update, after today's building period. :)

I checked the outputs from the 1st and 2nd opamps whilst the machine was
running, with the White Noise out to a VCF and the VCF to a VCA, with each
controlled by their own ADSRs.

With the output level brought down to about 5VAC from the Noise unit,
everything sounded fine.  ??

All of the controls on the machine are operating as they should and there's
no cross noise anywhere in the system.

It looks like the troubles that I was having COULD only have been too high
an amplifcation with Ren?'s circuit as the schematic shows.  ??

Anyhoo .... I'm happy with it for the moment. :)

I just got the 7 bit divider up and almost fully running.  It's showing each
of the 7 bit divisions, lighting their LEDs without any troubles in proper
sequence.  (And nice colours too! :D  From Bit 7 to Bit 1 - Purple, Soft
Blue, Green, Yellow, Green, Soft Blue, Purple. :)  I can't wait until my
Maple gets here, to start mounting this entire collection of modules, into
it's panel. :D
Wondering where it is, as I was expecting it, last Thursday or Friday. :( )

Anyways ...... off to starting the final layout design, for the panel. :)
I'll post it in the Design section of my webpage, if it's finished before I
have to leave for work. :)
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From patchell at cox.net  Tue Jan 10 19:07:35 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:07:35 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060110100221.00b9bc68@pop.west.cox.net>

Solder....

         In fact...I still need to do this.  I should probably get at least 
a couple more rolls of Kester Resin 44 core 63/37 solder, and probably a 
half dozen rolls of Kester 331 Organic Core  63/37 solder.

         I just hope that all of those old parts with lead in them make 
their way to the surplus market so that we can scarf them up.  And 
yes...there will be many parts that are going to be more difficult to 
get.  If you aren't sure about a particular part...I would stock pile 
it.  I cannot think of anything, off hand though...that is a must...but you 
are right...we need to start thinking about what my disapear.

At 08:58 AM 1/10/2006 +0000, tom.adam at telenet.be wrote:
>How are you guys getting prepared for this RoHS compliance situation?
>I heard that the sequentix P3 Kit will no longer be available due to RoHS.
>Apparently IC sockets are no longer in stock @ some suppliers.
>
>So what should I be stockpiling...
>
>
>Cheers,
>ToAd

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 10 19:26:47 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:26:47 +0000
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs LM317/LM337
 vs 723  etc
In-Reply-To: <002401c615d1$a58bf980$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <20060109220216.93499.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <43C2EAED.7070401@burnit.co.uk> <004a01c61572$a0a10500$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43C30AC5.888A2BBF@prodigy.net> <002401c615d1$a58bf980$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <43C3FC67.8010807@burnit.co.uk>

JH. wrote:

>Amen, too.
>
>I'm mostly using LM317, but not because of the noise.
>You can improve the noise a lot on a 317 with an extra
>capacitor and diode, see data sheet,  - but I rarely do this.
>  
>
Actually, you don't even need the diode if the output voltage is 25V or 
less (provided the cap on the ADJ pin is 10uF - the recommended value).

Seb



From rdd at rddavis.org  Tue Jan 10 20:41:42 2006
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: 10 Jan 2006 14:41:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be> <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe clark at andrews.edu, from writings of Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at
10:57:50AM -0500:
>    The good news is that most parts are now being shipped lead-free,

What's good about that?  It may be fine for some large corporations,
but for people who build, modify and repair their own equipment, it
spells disaster.  We need leaded components for repairing and
modifying our older equipment in a way that doesn't make it
unreliable, or worse.  The amount of lead in electronic components is
miniscule compared to many other uses of lead, so RoHS is senseless.
Lead is unlikely to leach into the ground from electronic equipment
and I read that 0.6% of lead used is used in electronic equipment.

Apparently those jackasses in Brussels who run the EU, and are causing
us all of these problems, have had their brains damaged by eating
horse-meat.  It's most unfortunate that those demented dolts are
causing so many problems outside of the EU, ranging from this RoHS
problem to the problem of horse-slaughter and requirments for horses
in the US to soon be included in a national animal ID system (for the
safety of the horse-meat eating goons).  Screw 'em.  If Bush had an
adequately functioning brain, surely he'd have waged war on Brussels
instead of Iraq.

>    If you plan to SELL any product, you should note that it isn't good
> enough just to buy lead-free parts and then say your product is
> lead-free.  You MUST get documentation from the manufacturer for EVERY
> part that certifies that the particular part is RoHS compliant.  Only
> then should you state that your product is compliant.

Is that not absolutely ridiculous?  Why bother complying with mindless
bureaucracy intended to make things more difficult for smaller
businesses and individuals, so that some larger business benefit?
Here in the U.S. anyway, we should be self-sufficient, like we once
were, and not give a damn about what the the EU, requires... then,
maybe other countries, including member states of the EU might do the
same and break free of the strangle-hold of the EU.

>    I'm currently doing this for all of the products my company makes and
> it is a pain.  Every little part, whether it be a screw or a sticker
> has to have some form or documentation.  But overall it is more of a

People need to start thumbing their noses at the bureaucrats involved
with RoHS and not bother with all of that foolishness.  If enough
people did that, they couldn't enforce anything.  Why are people such
saps who give in to whatever some idiot politicians, etc. want them to
do?

> hassle and the issue of parts availability is a non-issue.  The bigger
> issue is just the manufacturing portion of doing lead-free.  So far the
> biggest damage done is that it obsoleted our $12K wave soldering
> machine since the solder pots aren't compatible with lead-free solder. 

Are most your customers demanding that you bother with the RoHS
rubbish?  If not, why bother complying with all of that ridiculous
certification and documentation?

-- 
   R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other animals: an
www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature & her
     Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify such
   Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan 10 21:24:36 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:24:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <43c4250e0601101144y7264457dt671c589f1e4faac8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060110202436.6617.qmail@web51014.mail.yahoo.com>

when was the last time you thre a MiniMoog
  in the garbage can...
  
  The problem is not in the 'lead' or 'cadmium'... its in the
  mentality that we need a new cell phone THIS week and
  another, newer one next week.
  
  The computers you throw into the landfill are the problem.
  The consumer crap, designed from the start to be non-repairable.
  Just buy a new one.
  
  Contrast this with our situation. we bring our products back from
  their very graves...
  
  Bob Pease put it well in his book "Troubleshooting Analog
  Circuits". He said he has several cans of fluorcarbon 'freeze
  mist'.  He mused, so if I throw out the cans, they end up in a landfill
  and the fluorcarbons hit the atmosphere even faster... and without
  being of any use to anyone. Now if I use them up and don't buy
  MORE of the the fluorcabon ones... they still end up in the 
  atmosphere.
  
  RoHS is a disproportionate burden on small manufacturers who do
  NOT account for the majority of the pollution. Essentially... I cannot
  be in business, but Motorola, Nokia, etc can.
  
  I'd like to see exemption limits by either total weight, or dollar (euro)
  volume etc.
  
  Remember...we have exempted the MILITARY from these guidelines
  so they are still free to ruin your environment. Depleted Uranium, anyone ???
  
  H^) harry  (lead-free flamesuit :^)

Benjamin Henry <henrybg at gmail.com> wrote:  It's not just about lead.  Have you been to rural China?   There are some nasty chemicals in the boards we design and build on,  and in the components we use every day.  Not only that, but the  process to fabricate ICs is not efficient or economical by any  means.  RoHS is attempting to address this.  
  
  I don't know if you have been to school for technology, but they're  teaching kids ethics now-a-days, and one major aspect of EE and CmpE  ethics classes are involving environmental issues.  Issues with  the FCC, UL, and with local environments.  If we keep thinking  that the only want to succeed is the way our parents parents did  things, we can never progress or feel comfortable knowing there is a  whole lot of people with a ton of our waste just on the other side of  that sea...angry as shit that they are the ones getting diseases  because of our "technology".
  
  Anyway.  I do agree that it's going to be a difficult hump to pass, but what isn't?
  
  
  -BENRY  

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From rdd at rddavis.org  Tue Jan 10 22:13:07 2006
From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis)
Date: 10 Jan 2006 16:13:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <43C41B3E.8060806@telenet.be>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be> <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu> <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <43C41B3E.8060806@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <20060110211307.GD25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>

Quothe Tom Adam, from writings of Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 09:38:22PM +0100:
> I'm not saying I disagree to all what you wrote, but I live near 
> Brussels, and I rather have the RoHS problem than Bush in my backyard ;-)

Living about 50 miles away from Washington DC, I can say that the
stench from the Bush and Clinton administrations has been most putrid,
and can understand why you would rather have RoHS than that. ;-)

Still, RoHS is not good for SDIY.

-- 
   R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other animals: an
www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature & her
     Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify such
   Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Jan 11 00:03:11 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:03:11 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Whammy Pedal Mods?
References: <53cb34390601101127t6600747er843dd7d6a7c696aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002901c6163a$08099dc0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

Maybe it is possible to null out the original signal by
adding or subtracting a certain amount of it from the output
(though, as I write this, It occurs that depending what the 
internal delay is, you might make a phaser instead).
In fact, if it is DSP based, then I think hacking is 
not going to be easy!
This opens another question though... are there any bits 
of gear that people have re-written operating systems for?
Some people (NOT me!) are hot on programming, but stopped
by the not inconsiderable a/d d/a interface hurdle.. maybe there are some
cheap audio fx units that are useful as a DIY DSP platform?

paul perry Melbourne Australia
  I just bought the newest version whammy pedal the other day and it seems to have a design "feature" (flaw) that I didn't expect.  In the harmony modes there is no way to get a 100% wet signal.  Does anyone know of any mods for the whammy pedal to provide the 100% wet signal?  Is it hopelessly SMD and complicated in there?  I am hoping to hear from someone who has poked around inside a whammy pedal before I decide to void my warranty.  I bought it new and I can still return it. 
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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 11 00:07:41 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:07:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <50546.143.207.1.42.1136932146.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
 <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
 <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
 <50546.143.207.1.42.1136932146.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060110160345.0342ceb0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 03:29 PM 1/10/06, clark at andrews.edu wrote:


>    No, you do NOT need leaded components.  Lead-free components are 100%
>compatible with leaded solder.


Are you sure?  The manufacturer's literature I read on resistors only 
claims 90% wetability. Seems to work reasonably well, but I wouldn't call 
it 100%.

And how are these new alloys going to behave with time?  What if you don't 
solder them right away?  What if you have to rework something?

   Ian 


From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Jan 11 00:20:55 2006
From: clark at andrews.edu (clark at andrews.edu)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:20:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060110160345.0342ceb0@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
    <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
    <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
    <50546.143.207.1.42.1136932146.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
    <6.2.1.2.2.20060110160345.0342ceb0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <55229.143.207.1.42.1136935255.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>

>>    No, you do NOT need leaded components.  Lead-free components are 100%
>>compatible with leaded solder.
>
> Are you sure?  The manufacturer's literature I read on resistors only
> claims 90% wetability. Seems to work reasonably well, but I wouldn't call
> it 100%.

   We've been using lead-free parts (IC's mainly) in our production line
for the last 6 months or more and have had zero problems with
solder-joints.  Are you sure that their 90% wetability isn't referring
to the lead-free solder process?  No one can guarantee 100% on that
score just yet...

   As I understand it, lead-free parts generally have a pure-tin finish
which poses no problem to traditional leaded (Pb) solder since it's
part tin anyway.  So there is not major disruption in the metallic
composition, in particular the intermetallic layer where the solder
meets the component lead.  However, if your solder has no lead (Pb) in
it but is one of the tin/whatever(add your favorite mix here) the 
bonding surfaces have to be either tin or some other suitably receptive
metal in order for the solder to properly bond without forming a weak
intermetallic layer.
   This is why you shouldn't use lead-free solder with a part that has a
lead (Pb) finish.  The lead (Pb) on the surface of the part will mix
with the tin solder and create a very thin layer of tin/lead (Pb) which
is much weaker than the bulk of the tin solder surrounding the joint
leading to fracturing of the joint itself.

> And how are these new alloys going to behave with time?  What if you don't
> solder them right away?  What if you have to rework something?

   As for long-term parts storage, I haven't had any problems with this
either, however, it should be pointed out that normally lead-free
soldering requires a more aggressive flux, so I'm sure that this will
help alleviate some of the long-term storage issues that have come up.
   So far my PCB house claims better long-term storage of their PCBs with
a lead-free HAL finish than the standard HAL.  I really don't know if
this is true since we never keep more than 3 months stock of PCBs on
hand at any one time (typical storage life-expectancy is supposed to be
somewhere around 4-6 months).
   Soon, within the next two weeks I'll get first hand experience in
lead-free production, and I'll be happy to share my results with the
group at that time (right now I'm in the process of getting lead-free
PCBs made).

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Jan 11 00:22:57 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:22:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <50546.143.207.1.42.1136932146.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <20060110232257.6858.qmail@web51015.mail.yahoo.com>

Also note... all "leaded" components are not necessarily
  compatible with the lead-free process.
  
  Some "lead-free" components are not compatible either...
  
  The higher solder temperatures may exceed the package
  limits. Just because a manufacturer removes the tin-lead
  plating from the leads... does not guarantee success...
  
  H^) harry

clark at andrews.edu wrote:  >>    The good news is that most parts are now being shipped lead-free,
>
> What's good about that?  It may be fine for some large corporations,
> but for people who build, modify and repair their own equipment, it
> spells disaster.  We need leaded components for repairing and
> modifying our older equipment in a way that doesn't make it
> unreliable, or worse.

   

   No, you do NOT need leaded components.  Lead-free components are 100%
compatible with leaded solder.  Lead-free solder, however is NOT
compatible with leaded parts!!!  So it _IS_ a VERY good thing that the
parts are being shipped lead-free, because EVERYONE can use them.

   What you will find happening in the future is people not being aware of
the above issue and trying to use lead-free solder to try and repair
equipment made with leaded solder.  So as Harry and a few others have
pointed out, stock up on leaded solder if you plan to continue to
repair anything made before July 1, 2006!

> Are most your customers demanding that you bother with the RoHS
> rubbish?

   Yes.  A very large percentage of our products are sold overseas through
distributor networks.  The distributors have to comply with RoHS and as
a result, we must as well.  And like most OEMs, we find that it isn't
cost effective to run two assembly lines to make both non-compliant and
compliant products.

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




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From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Jan 11 00:29:53 2006
From: clark at andrews.edu (clark at andrews.edu)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:29:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <20060110232257.6858.qmail@web51015.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <50546.143.207.1.42.1136932146.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
    <20060110232257.6858.qmail@web51015.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55772.143.207.1.42.1136935793.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>

>   Also note... all "leaded" components are not necessarily
>   compatible with the lead-free process.
>
>   Some "lead-free" components are not compatible either...
>
>   The higher solder temperatures may exceed the package
>   limits. Just because a manufacturer removes the tin-lead
>   plating from the leads... does not guarantee success...

   Very true, Harry, but this is normally only an issue to those of us who
use convection reflow and/or wave soldering.  :)
   Since most DIY'ers are probably using a soldering iron already set at
temperatures well above the melting point of lead-free solder (mine's
set at 700 degrees Farenheit!), they really shouldn't see much of a
difference.

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com  Wed Jan 11 00:42:35 2006
From: colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com (Colin Raffel)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:42:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Synth in a Month
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601101320u23db4c1bp191b61d32d7b3d1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be546e560601101245q56952e82n6ea7c5713ee3b6ab@mail.gmail.com> <BFE963B6.2B256%peter@buzzclick-music.com> <be546e560601101320u23db4c1bp191b61d32d7b3d1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF38DF94-3A90-4122-920A-261DC2EB905D@experimentalistsanonymous.com>

Some of your may remember a little while back I was asking about  
which modules you all recommended for a basic modular synth... well,  
winter term, and thus, production has begun.  I am making a  
photojournal and will be updating every day or so with pics of the  
progress of my synth from beginning to end.  When I am all done I  
will add a big page that will contain all details, soundclips, etc,  
as well as how much it cost and any advice for anyone who also wants  
to try to build a fully capable modular in a month.

Here is the site for those who are interested:
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/other/siam/

For reference, I am building...

 From Ray Wilson's MFOS:
2x VCO (the 2005 Rev)
1x Dual Log/Lin VCA
1x VC SVF
2x Retriggerable ADSR
1x Dual Sine, Tri, Square LFO
1x Noise Source/S+H
1x Simple DC Mixer
(if I have any extra time) 1x VC LPF

 From Ken Stone's CGS:
1x Module->Stompbox adapter
1x Stompbox->MOdule adapter

Any comments/questions appreciated!

-Colin


From lenham at clara.co.uk  Wed Jan 11 00:46:10 2006
From: lenham at clara.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:46:10 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin? (sorry, it's a bit long - make a cup of tea first)
References: <063d01c611fc$5b5adcb0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <019a01c61640$0b4bc1b0$0202a8c0@DELL>

Hi Julian,

Have been meaning to reply to this, esp. as not many others have.

I make some of my own boards, both for my own use and as commercial 
prototypes. Because I don't really enjoy doing so (it's dirty, smelly and 
time-consuming), I only do it when there is a good reason. That reason is 
usually that I only need one or two boards, and even the best commercial 
boardmakers aren't very cost-effective at that volume. Any more (even if you 
might only need the extras in the future) and I'd recommend getting them 
commercially done. Another good reason might be that you need/want the 
boards NOW rather than next week (or whatever).

I also wouldn't entertain making anything other than single-sided boards. 
Yes, it is possible to do double-sided at home but you need to work very 
hard to get it right and, even if you get the layer alignment right, you'll 
miss the plated-through holes terribly.

If you're still up for it, the good news is that there is no black art 
involved and I can recommend a simple system which has consistently 
delivered me very good results (and everything comes from Rapid). The method 
I use is optimised for speed and cleanliness and might not be the choice for 
higher volumes - but IMHO you shouldn't be DIYing large volumes anyway...

1. Artwork

Buy the blue Press-and-Peel sheets (Rapid 34-4450) and laser-print the 
artwork onto them. Obviously it helps if you own a laser printer - 
photocopying is also supposed to be possible but I've not tried it. If you 
have laid the board out yourself, you can print stright from the layout 
software. Ditto if you have a PDF of someone else's layout. Paper artwork 
can be scanned in, with the advantage that old magazine plots can be cleaned 
up on the computer before printing. The only thing to watch out for is 
slight scaling errors in the scanning (do a trial run on paper first), but 
quite acceptable results are possible - I did the old ETI phaser board that 
way.

The printed artwork is then ironed onto bare copper-clad board using a 
clothes iron. Some people have reported that this is a tricky process but I 
can honestly say that I have never had a problem or an unusable board. The 
critical thing is preparation of the board material. It needs to be really 
clean and really smooth. First get rid of any hint of a burr along the board 
edge with a fine file (even a small burr will hold the artwork away from the 
copper and prevent it adhering properly at the edges). I then use fine wire 
wool to scrub off the oxide layer and make the copper really bright, wash 
the board with a bit of washing-up liquid on some kitchen roll (as you can 
see I use only the most exotic of materials ;-) , rinse it with tap water 
and dry it off.

For the ironing, just follow the instructions which come with the sheets. I 
did so, with no previous experience, and even my first board turned out 
fine. They specify a range of times for applying heat - use the longest for 
large boards and reduce it for smaller ones. It is better to iron for 
slightly too long than too little time - overdoing it just causes the toner 
to blur somewhat, but the board is very likely to still be usable.The heat 
of my iron just goes from 0 to 5 - I use 4. When done, cool the board with 
cold water and peel off the backing sheet - the toner of the artwork should 
be stuck to the board.

This method is good for quite fine artwork - it has no problems with tracks 
passing between the pins of standard through-hole ICs.

2. Etching

Buy the Seno etch-in-a-bag system (Rapid 34-0384). Yes, it's more expensive 
than mixing up your own etchant in a pot but it keeps you as far away from 
the horrid ferric chloride as possible. You only need to ruin one pair of 
trousers by getting etchant on them and the financial advantage of making 
that board yourself will be but a distant memory.

Again, just follow the instructions, which pretty much amount to putting the 
board in the bag and swishing it around a bit. You can watch the board 
through the clear bag and see for yourself when it is fully etched. You then 
take it out through an "airlock" which keeps you separated from the etchant 
as much as possible, and rinse off the board (preferably at the outside 
tap - there will be a tiny bit of etchant still present).

The toner can then be removed from the copper with wirewool.

3. Drilling

You need a little handheld electric drill (Minicraft, Dremel, etc. - still 
all from Rapid) and a small selection of fine bits (0.8mm, 1.0mm and 1.2mm 
will get you a long way). A drill stand would be great, and saves the odd 
broken drill, but is by no means essential (I haven't got one yet).

Some may hold up their hands in horror, but I only use SRBP (paper) board 
material for my DIY PCBs because it is SO much easier and quicker to drill. 
It also spares you the foul-smelling and rather unhealthy fibreglass dust 
which drilling conventional material generates. Even so, it's still nice to 
rig up your vacuum cleaner to suck up the dust as it is created.

That's about it! Excluding the drill, you are looking at expenditure of 
about ?30 for the artwork sheets, the Seno etch kit and some board material. 
Why not give it a go? Let me know if you need any more tips.

Sorry for the ramble - layout software, layout technique and commercial 
board manufacturers will have to wait for another day!

Cheers,

Steve L.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julian" <julian at 22host24.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin?


Right, Its something ive wondered about for a long time, but never made a
start with, so im wondering -  etching your own board: how much of a black
art is it?

How many attempts is it likely to take before i get it right (i know thats
an open ended question, but, is it like 'wow - he got it to work first
time - amazing!' or what?)

I have a friend who tried twice in the past, with no success, i suspect that
they were reasonably carefull, so thats what worries me ; )

Is there some fool proof technique?  Im guessing that the variables of
temperature, time, and chemical makeup all affect things, so im wondering if
i can get a specific set of one make of chemicals / boards and just follow
the directions to the letter - ie to take out any human skill on my behalf.

I know some of you make boards all the time, but, as i say, im aware my
friend had no success, so it cant be that easy either.

Any comments at all would be most appreciated.

Again, im in England, so any suggested products need to be available here
too.


Failing all that, if i want to get a company to do it for me...

To go from the schematic to pcb, i need to do the layout in some program
(any free and easy suggestions?) and upload the file to a company (i know
there have been threads in the past on companies), but, having never used
the layout software, im wondering how automated it all is?  Ie. is there
stuff i need to *know* about board layout rather then just being careful
with inputting data off schematic?  (Will i have decisions to make)

Basically, id like to start on this, whichever way, but id really like some
pointers as to where to begin.

Cheers, Julian





From henrybg at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 00:49:41 2006
From: henrybg at gmail.com (Ben Henry)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:49:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601101320u23db4c1bp191b61d32d7b3d1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be546e560601101245q56952e82n6ea7c5713ee3b6ab@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BFE963B6.2B256%peter@buzzclick-music.com>
	 <be546e560601101320u23db4c1bp191b61d32d7b3d1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43c4250e0601101549n7f088cb0leed6720deebf85b9@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.designnews.com/index.asp?layout=microsite&industryid=43320&lpid0104012600120000idlp=1

I think this was what I read when I first heard about it a year ago or so.

to: Johannes ?berg
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From controlvoltage at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 01:18:47 2006
From: controlvoltage at gmail.com (Amos)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:18:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Whammy Pedal Mods?
In-Reply-To: <002901c6163a$08099dc0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
References: <53cb34390601101127t6600747er843dd7d6a7c696aa@mail.gmail.com>
	 <002901c6163a$08099dc0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <908a4c120601101618h4268db1etd2de45b0f38a3dbb@mail.gmail.com>

That immediately made me think of the Alesis line of cheap-as-dirt digital
fx pedals... Philtre, Bitrman and friends.  In all likelihood dirt-cheap
means bare minimum implimentation with no programming headers, certainly no
socketed chips and possibly no re-burnable ones even if they could be gotten
to and stuck in a programmer...  however the similarities across the range
of these pedals make me think that they must all be the same basic platform
running different DSP code - there's no other sensible way to do it.  So,
perhaps the final product may have some opening for clever
hacking/re-coding.... any thoughts?

On 1/11/06, Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au> wrote:
>
> [...]This opens another question though... are there any bits
> of gear that people have re-written operating systems for?
> Some people (NOT me!) are hot on programming, but stopped
> by the not inconsiderable a/d d/a interface hurdle.. maybe there are some
> cheap audio fx units that are useful as a DIY DSP platform?
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia
>
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From megaohm1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 01:20:27 2006
From: megaohm1 at gmail.com (megaohm)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:20:27 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin? (sorry, it's a bit long - make a cup of tea first)
In-Reply-To: <019a01c61640$0b4bc1b0$0202a8c0@DELL>
References: <063d01c611fc$5b5adcb0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
	 <019a01c61640$0b4bc1b0$0202a8c0@DELL>
Message-ID: <a6fac3a00601101620p1110158x98b00a08f4ac3226@mail.gmail.com>

Steve,

  That was a good explaination. I do all those steps the same way except the
etching. I buy etchant solution from Radio Shack.

Some boards come out better than others. A couple observations:

 - Dry the board with a towel after the ironing and cooling with cold water
before you peel back the sheet.

 - If you see a bad track when peeling back the sheet after ironing, lay it
back down and iron some more.

 - If you accidently print the mask backwards and don't notice until the
board is etched and drilled...have a laugh at yourself.
  Usually, you can still use the board, just bend the IC pins the other way.
Your board will look very mysterious with all those plain black chips.

peng

http://home.comcast.net/~peng5002/mainpage.htm
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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 11 02:38:35 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:38:35 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <896FB55A-E6EC-41F5-87A9-B6A460E1BFA0@asapnet.net>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
 <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
 <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
 <896FB55A-E6EC-41F5-87A9-B6A460E1BFA0@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060110183733.0343aeb0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 04:54 PM 1/10/06, Grant Richter wrote:
>>unreliable, or worse.  The amount of lead in electronic components is
>>miniscule compared to many other uses of lead, so RoHS is senseless.
>
>Lead free electronics is likely to be less reliable than electronics
>that contains lead.
>It is a step backwards in terms of quality and reliability.

Yes, that is correct. Otherwise, why would high-reliability applications be 
exempted? 


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 11 02:51:31 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:51:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <55229.143.207.1.42.1136935255.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
 <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
 <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
 <50546.143.207.1.42.1136932146.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
 <6.2.1.2.2.20060110160345.0342ceb0@mail.earthlink.net>
 <55229.143.207.1.42.1136935255.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060110184039.0343eba0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 04:20 PM 1/10/06, clark at andrews.edu wrote:

>    We've been using lead-free parts (IC's mainly) in our production line
>for the last 6 months or more and have had zero problems with
>solder-joints.

Isn't it kind of early to tell?


>Are you sure that their 90% wetability isn't referring
>to the lead-free solder process?  No one can guarantee 100% on that
>score just yet...

But you just said you had no problems.  Less than 100% wettability isn't a 
problem?  I've soldered some lead-free resistors with regular solder, and 
it is definitely more difficult to get these to wet.


>    As I understand it, lead-free parts generally have a pure-tin finish
>which poses no problem to traditional leaded (Pb) solder since it's
>part tin anyway.

Not according to the manufacturers that I have looked at.  They call it an 
alloy.


>    This is why you shouldn't use lead-free solder with a part that has a
>lead (Pb) finish.  The lead (Pb) on the surface of the part will mix
>with the tin solder and create a very thin layer of tin/lead (Pb) which
>is much weaker than the bulk of the tin solder surrounding the joint
>leading to fracturing of the joint itself.

Aren't you being inconsistent here?  If you can solder to lead-free with 
lead, then you should be able to do the opposite.


>    Soon, within the next two weeks I'll get first hand experience in
>lead-free production, and I'll be happy to share my results with the
>group at that time (right now I'm in the process of getting lead-free
>PCBs made).

It will be very interesting to hear those results.  It would be nice to 
know more about the metallurgy here, but since no one is saying what their 
lead-free alloys are this may be difficult to winkle out.

   Ian 


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Jan 11 05:22:17 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:22:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Whammy Pedal Mods?
References: <53cb34390601101127t6600747er843dd7d6a7c696aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C487F9.75315BD3@prodigy.net>

Yack ! that really ~is~ a feature. Most 'harmony' processors
use the original signal to mask all the crappy imperfections
in the harmonized sound.  Heard 'raw' they are usually
pretty awful.  Bet that's why the feature you want does not exist.

H^) harry (sorry not a more useful reply)

Rafael Cohen wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> I just bought the newest version whammy pedal the other day and it
> seems to have a design "feature" (flaw) that I didn't expect.  In the
> harmony modes there is no way to get a 100% wet signal.  Does anyone
> know of any mods for the whammy pedal to provide the 100% wet signal?
> Is it hopelessly SMD and complicated in there?  I am hoping to hear
> from someone who has poked around inside a whammy pedal before I
> decide to void my warranty.  I bought it new and I can still return
> it.
> 
> Thanks for any help or leads,
> Rafael


From synth1 at airmail.net  Wed Jan 11 05:22:48 2006
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:22:48 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS PC boards
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be> <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu> <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <50546.143.207.1.42.1136932146.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20060110160345.0342ceb0@mail.earthlink.net> <55229.143.207.1.42.1136935255.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20060110184039.0343eba0@mail.earthlink.net> <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601102144500.1389@panix3.panix.com> <43C480E8.228B038D@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <03af01c61666$ae16c180$0301a8c0@bilbo>

Well, 'short shelf life' is *1 year*, it's not all that short. Meaning, you need 
to solder the board within 1 year of manufacture. I am taking all of the new 
RoHS pc boards from my vendor and immediately individually bagging them.

Yes RoHS is a pain. I finally got the last non-compliant part switched over (the 
jacks) so now MOTM is fully compliant *except* for the solder. Afer July1, I 
will ship kits without solder. Now is a *really good time* to address that issue 
(cough cough).

Paul S.


From synth1 at airmail.net  Wed Jan 11 05:31:51 2006
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:31:51 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Re: RoHS PC boards (clarification)
Message-ID: <03bf01c61667$f1b21420$0301a8c0@bilbo>

After July1, I  will ship kits without solder *to countries in the EU*.

Other folks get the evil lead-filled stuff :)

Paul S.



From ka4hjh at gte.net  Wed Jan 11 05:56:39 2006
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:56:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <43C4881D.95334837@prodigy.net>
References: <BFE963E0.2B257%peter@buzzclick-music.com>
 <43C4881D.95334837@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <p05111a05bfea3e5c8a98@[192.168.1.101]>

>What a bunch of hooey RoHS is...
>
>if the EPA were really serious, they'd look at the larger
>threat posed by the uncontrolled, and almost universal use
>of Hydrogen Hydroxide / Hydric Acid.  Instead they pretend
>it doesn't even exist.

You mean dihydrogen monoxide? That stuff is a killer.

http://www.dhmo.org/

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From philgallo at attglobal.net  Wed Jan 11 06:16:48 2006
From: philgallo at attglobal.net (phillip m gallo)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:16:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] More MG-1 Mods completed...
In-Reply-To: <001801c615f3$a73459e0$6400a8c0@hr.cox.net>
Message-ID: <NJBBIIOLGLCFPDBGHOFMIEMLCMAA.philgallo@attglobal.net>

The MG-1 Organ Voice routes thru the key switches the summed audio (after
filter/rectification/comparitor) is used to drive the MG-1's Gate.  So to
trigger and play the Organ Voice you have to press key's or perform it's
equiv.

On my bench right now is a 1/2 built board which intends to implement 2 MIDI
controlled cross-point switches.  Since they have 8 output channels i've
allocated 1 channel to drive the key-detect (only needed if no MIDI2CV is
driving the Gate) and the other 7 to a weighted summer to implement a crude
DAC to allow a coarse Velocity value to be assigned to the Organ voice.

regards,
p


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of DTK
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 6:39 AM
To: Florian.Anwander at consol.de
Cc: Synth DIY; Analog Heaven
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] More MG-1 Mods completed...


Hey Florian, interesting idea, but I'm not sure I can make it a reality ...
The poly voice in the MG-1 can only be triggered by the keyboard. I'm using
a midi-cv interface, so I'm not really playing it from the keyboard.

Is there a way that I can get this to work when controlling the synth via
cv/gate??

D

----- Original Message -----
From: "Florian Anwander" <Florian.Anwander at consol.de>
To: "DTK" <aurastar at cox.net>
Cc: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>; "Analog Heaven"
<analogue at hyperreal.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: [AH] More MG-1 Mods completed...


> Hi D
>
> just a little hint:
> > I am getting the *sickest* sync mod sounds out of it right now... it's
> > really unbelievable to hear my little humble MG making noise like this
:)
> Add a switch which feeds the output of the polysection to the sync-in of
> the VCO. The MG-1 will sound like Eddie van Halens guitar!
>
> Florian



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/06



From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Jan 11 06:59:03 2006
From: clark at andrews.edu (clark at andrews.edu)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:59:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060110184039.0343eba0@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
    <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
    <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
    <50546.143.207.1.42.1136932146.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
    <6.2.1.2.2.20060110160345.0342ceb0@mail.earthlink.net>
    <55229.143.207.1.42.1136935255.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
    <6.2.1.2.2.20060110184039.0343eba0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <49483.143.207.1.42.1136959143.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>

>>    We've been using lead-free parts (IC's mainly) in our production line
>>for the last 6 months or more and have had zero problems with
>>solder-joints.
>
> Isn't it kind of early to tell?

   Perhaps.  BUT, remember, we're only using some lead-free parts and
still using leaded solder, so the ultimate test is assembling a pure
lead-free part and THEN subjecting it to abuse....  That's the fun I
get to do in the very near future...

>>Are you sure that their 90% wetability isn't referring
>>to the lead-free solder process?  No one can guarantee 100% on that
>>score just yet...
>
> But you just said you had no problems.  Less than 100% wettability isn't a
> problem?  I've soldered some lead-free resistors with regular solder, and
> it is definitely more difficult to get these to wet.

   It largely depends on the type of flux used to wet the joints. 
Lead-free processes will pretty much dictate using highly active
organic flux.  Rosin core won't cut it.  Having said that though, I
routinely take parts out of the assembler machines reject bin and use
them to repair boards using good old Kester 44.  And these rejected
parts have sat around for months soaking in good old Michigan air and I
haven't had any issues.  Perhaps it depends on the manufacturer and
what finish has been put on.  I can't say.

>>    As I understand it, lead-free parts generally have a pure-tin finish
>>which poses no problem to traditional leaded (Pb) solder since it's
>>part tin anyway.
>
> Not according to the manufacturers that I have looked at.  They call it an
> alloy.

   Well yes, okay, almost pure tin...usually a small amount of copper and
or bismuth or antimony or other such things which are put in to retard
whisker growth and to provide for better flexibility and bonding.  But
this is also true for lead-free solder as well.

>>    This is why you shouldn't use lead-free solder with a part that has a
>>lead (Pb) finish.  The lead (Pb) on the surface of the part will mix
>>with the tin solder and create a very thin layer of tin/lead (Pb) which
>>is much weaker than the bulk of the tin solder surrounding the joint
>>leading to fracturing of the joint itself.
>
> Aren't you being inconsistent here?  If you can solder to lead-free with
> lead, then you should be able to do the opposite.

   Well it's not to say that you can't, but more that you shouldn't.  If
you solder to a part with a lead (Pb) finish, the point at which those
two alloys meet will create a weak intermetallic bond and since the
lead-free solder is much harder and less able to flex, you will have
the possibility of fracturing.  I'd have to look up the study that was
done on this to remember what the failure rate was on this, but it was
significant.  Since my company's products get routine abuse, this is a
very serious factor.
   The lead tin mixture of regular solder is a much more flexible material
and also creates a more stable bond to parts that have a pure or near
pure tin finish (alloy, call it what you will).

>>    Soon, within the next two weeks I'll get first hand experience in
>>lead-free production, and I'll be happy to share my results with the
>>group at that time (right now I'm in the process of getting lead-free
>>PCBs made).
>
> It will be very interesting to hear those results.  It would be nice to
> know more about the metallurgy here, but since no one is saying what their
> lead-free alloys are this may be difficult to winkle out.

   When I have the chance, I'll post all my findings and definately let
you know what alloys/fluxes/temps work (at least in a manufacturing
environment.  I also have wire solder to test out too, so I'll be sure
to add that in as well.

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Jan 11 13:16:55 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:16:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
Message-ID: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>

In a fit of narrowmindedness earlier today I was quite fixated on a 4.400mhz
crystal however after Paul S mentioned that getting one divisible by a power
of 2 would be a better idea, I started considering other options.

Seems like a better idea is a standard cheap colourburst crystal like
everyone else seems to use, and pull it the 500hz required to divide it
cleanly.  No, it wont be power of 2 compatible, but it will be 25cents each
and sealed in a metal box away from air currents and fast temperature
variations it should be stable enough that after dividing the drift wont be
noticable.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From lenham at clara.co.uk  Wed Jan 11 13:30:21 2006
From: lenham at clara.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:30:21 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin? (sorry, it's a bit long - make a cup of tea first)
References: <063d01c611fc$5b5adcb0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie> <019a01c61640$0b4bc1b0$0202a8c0@DELL> <046c01c61650$7fa0fed0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <020b01c616aa$cb15e920$0202a8c0@DELL>

Hi Julian,

Only a laser printer or a photocopier will work with this system, because 
what is happening when you iron the artwork on is that the laser toner is 
melting and sticking to the copper. The blue sheets are specially formulated 
to ensure that the toner adheres to the copper better than it does to the 
sheet itself, so when you peel the sheet away the toner stays attached to 
the copper. The toner then forms the etch resist.

Inkjet ink soaks into the paper and dries - it'll never stick to anything. 
It's also water soluble so, even if you got that far, the liquid etchant 
would dissolve it. All you can do with an inkjet is produce transparent 
artwork which could be used to expose photosensitive board material, but 
this requires more chemicals, equipment and operational stages, each of 
which introduces new opportunities for error.

Suggestions:

Do any of your friends and family have a laser printer you could use? It's 
not like you need it that often.

Alternatively (I hesitate to say this, as I'm really not a fan of the 
consumerist society), laser printers are dirt cheap, especially (putting my 
environmentalist hat back on) if you buy one secondhand off eBay. You've 
already noted that it would be useful for panel artwork too - Rapid have a 
nice system for that too! Cost would not be much more than the extra stuff 
required for photosensitive board work, the results would be better and, 
hell, you could print letters on it as well...

Cheers,

Steve L.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julian" <julian at 22host24.com>
To: "Steve Lenham" <lenham at clara.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin? 
(sorry, it's a bit long - make a cup of tea first)


> Hmm...
>
> I see the first flaw - actaully exactly the same issue i had with the
> lasertran pannel transfer stuff:
>
> I only have an inkjet.  And copy shops dont seem to like you putting your
> own paper through their machines (i guess in case it gets melted on or
> somthing)
>
> Photocopying may be easier though - with the lasertran i was looking for
> highrez colour stuff.
>
> You ever tried this transfer with inkjet?  Or know of an inkjet compatible
> alternative?
>
> Cheers, Julian
>
> (time to go to bed)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Lenham" <lenham at clara.co.uk>
> To: "SDIY list" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin?
> (sorry, it's a bit long - make a cup of tea first)
>
>
>> Hi Julian,
>>
>> Have been meaning to reply to this, esp. as not many others have.
>>
>> I make some of my own boards, both for my own use and as commercial
>> prototypes. Because I don't really enjoy doing so (it's dirty, smelly and
>> time-consuming), I only do it when there is a good reason. That reason is
>> usually that I only need one or two boards, and even the best commercial
>> boardmakers aren't very cost-effective at that volume. Any more (even if
> you
>> might only need the extras in the future) and I'd recommend getting them
>> commercially done. Another good reason might be that you need/want the
>> boards NOW rather than next week (or whatever).
>>
>> I also wouldn't entertain making anything other than single-sided boards.
>> Yes, it is possible to do double-sided at home but you need to work very
>> hard to get it right and, even if you get the layer alignment right,
> you'll
>> miss the plated-through holes terribly.
>>
>> If you're still up for it, the good news is that there is no black art
>> involved and I can recommend a simple system which has consistently
>> delivered me very good results (and everything comes from Rapid). The
> method
>> I use is optimised for speed and cleanliness and might not be the choice
> for
>> higher volumes - but IMHO you shouldn't be DIYing large volumes anyway...
>>
>> 1. Artwork
>>
>> Buy the blue Press-and-Peel sheets (Rapid 34-4450) and laser-print the
>> artwork onto them. Obviously it helps if you own a laser printer -
>> photocopying is also supposed to be possible but I've not tried it. If 
>> you
>> have laid the board out yourself, you can print stright from the layout
>> software. Ditto if you have a PDF of someone else's layout. Paper artwork
>> can be scanned in, with the advantage that old magazine plots can be
> cleaned
>> up on the computer before printing. The only thing to watch out for is
>> slight scaling errors in the scanning (do a trial run on paper first), 
>> but
>> quite acceptable results are possible - I did the old ETI phaser board
> that
>> way.
>>
>> The printed artwork is then ironed onto bare copper-clad board using a
>> clothes iron. Some people have reported that this is a tricky process but
> I
>> can honestly say that I have never had a problem or an unusable board. 
>> The
>> critical thing is preparation of the board material. It needs to be 
>> really
>> clean and really smooth. First get rid of any hint of a burr along the
> board
>> edge with a fine file (even a small burr will hold the artwork away from
> the
>> copper and prevent it adhering properly at the edges). I then use fine
> wire
>> wool to scrub off the oxide layer and make the copper really bright, wash
>> the board with a bit of washing-up liquid on some kitchen roll (as you 
>> can
>> see I use only the most exotic of materials ;-) , rinse it with tap water
>> and dry it off.
>>
>> For the ironing, just follow the instructions which come with the sheets.
> I
>> did so, with no previous experience, and even my first board turned out
>> fine. They specify a range of times for applying heat - use the longest
> for
>> large boards and reduce it for smaller ones. It is better to iron for
>> slightly too long than too little time - overdoing it just causes the
> toner
>> to blur somewhat, but the board is very likely to still be usable.The 
>> heat
>> of my iron just goes from 0 to 5 - I use 4. When done, cool the board 
>> with
>> cold water and peel off the backing sheet - the toner of the artwork
> should
>> be stuck to the board.
>>
>> This method is good for quite fine artwork - it has no problems with
> tracks
>> passing between the pins of standard through-hole ICs.
>>
>> 2. Etching
>>
>> Buy the Seno etch-in-a-bag system (Rapid 34-0384). Yes, it's more
> expensive
>> than mixing up your own etchant in a pot but it keeps you as far away 
>> from
>> the horrid ferric chloride as possible. You only need to ruin one pair of
>> trousers by getting etchant on them and the financial advantage of making
>> that board yourself will be but a distant memory.
>>
>> Again, just follow the instructions, which pretty much amount to putting
> the
>> board in the bag and swishing it around a bit. You can watch the board
>> through the clear bag and see for yourself when it is fully etched. You
> then
>> take it out through an "airlock" which keeps you separated from the
> etchant
>> as much as possible, and rinse off the board (preferably at the outside
>> tap - there will be a tiny bit of etchant still present).
>>
>> The toner can then be removed from the copper with wirewool.
>>
>> 3. Drilling
>>
>> You need a little handheld electric drill (Minicraft, Dremel, etc. - 
>> still
>> all from Rapid) and a small selection of fine bits (0.8mm, 1.0mm and 
>> 1.2mm
>> will get you a long way). A drill stand would be great, and saves the odd
>> broken drill, but is by no means essential (I haven't got one yet).
>>
>> Some may hold up their hands in horror, but I only use SRBP (paper) board
>> material for my DIY PCBs because it is SO much easier and quicker to
> drill.
>> It also spares you the foul-smelling and rather unhealthy fibreglass dust
>> which drilling conventional material generates. Even so, it's still nice
> to
>> rig up your vacuum cleaner to suck up the dust as it is created.
>>
>> That's about it! Excluding the drill, you are looking at expenditure of
>> about ?30 for the artwork sheets, the Seno etch kit and some board
> material.
>> Why not give it a go? Let me know if you need any more tips.
>>
>> Sorry for the ramble - layout software, layout technique and commercial
>> board manufacturers will have to wait for another day!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Steve L.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julian" <julian at 22host24.com>
>> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:31 PM
>> Subject: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin?
>>
>>
>> Right, Its something ive wondered about for a long time, but never made a
>> start with, so im wondering -  etching your own board: how much of a 
>> black
>> art is it?
>>
>> How many attempts is it likely to take before i get it right (i know 
>> thats
>> an open ended question, but, is it like 'wow - he got it to work first
>> time - amazing!' or what?)
>>
>> I have a friend who tried twice in the past, with no success, i suspect
> that
>> they were reasonably carefull, so thats what worries me ; )
>>
>> Is there some fool proof technique?  Im guessing that the variables of
>> temperature, time, and chemical makeup all affect things, so im wondering
> if
>> i can get a specific set of one make of chemicals / boards and just 
>> follow
>> the directions to the letter - ie to take out any human skill on my
> behalf.
>>
>> I know some of you make boards all the time, but, as i say, im aware my
>> friend had no success, so it cant be that easy either.
>>
>> Any comments at all would be most appreciated.
>>
>> Again, im in England, so any suggested products need to be available here
>> too.
>>
>>
>> Failing all that, if i want to get a company to do it for me...
>>
>> To go from the schematic to pcb, i need to do the layout in some program
>> (any free and easy suggestions?) and upload the file to a company (i know
>> there have been threads in the past on companies), but, having never used
>> the layout software, im wondering how automated it all is?  Ie. is there
>> stuff i need to *know* about board layout rather then just being careful
>> with inputting data off schematic?  (Will i have decisions to make)
>>
>> Basically, id like to start on this, whichever way, but id really like
> some
>> pointers as to where to begin.
>>
>> Cheers, Julian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Jan 11 13:40:01 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:40:01 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Questions about notes...
Message-ID: <20060111124001.GI10396@moo.sysabend.org>

So, if A4 is 440hz / Midi Note 69, that would make C0 approx 16.3hz / Midi
Note 12, and thus Midi note 0 would be approx 8.17hz and C(-1)?

I've managed to read my brain into a twisted little ball and wanted to
double check that this is correct.

Do people normally tune 0volts = 16hz or 0v=8hz?  I suppose it doesnt make
much difference as even if 0v=8hz, 10v will still be 8khz so tuning 0v=16hz
puts 10v up well into the range of hearing that many years of doing sound
has killed off quite nicely although I guess having the extra range might be
fun for FM effects?

Sorry to take a detour off the always facinating topic of ROHS.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From raywilson at comcast.net  Wed Jan 11 14:19:04 2006
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:19:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be> <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu> <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <896FB55A-E6EC-41F5-87A9-B6A460E1BFA0@asapnet.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20060110183733.0343aeb0@mail.earthlink.net> <005201c61650$edf837e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43C47F90.8E37778@prodigy.net> <20060111044614.GN25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <002101c616b1$98e38d70$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>

Music From Outer Space will be switching over to RoHS compliant PC boards 
slowly and after June I will only ship RoHS compliant boards to EU 
countries. Others will continue to get leaded boards until they are all 
gone. Then I will only ship RoHS compliant boards. Temp compensators will be 
shipped for repair of old equipment and personal use only (lead in the 
solder coated leads and thus NOT RoHS compliant). What your idea of personal 
use is... well that's none of my business.

I got some lead-free test PC boards and the solder I regularly use (leaded) 
flowed fine. I don't have any lead free solder to test with so... we'll see.

The environmentalists behind this are probably glad to make any advance 
toward a cleaner environment for the world of tomorrow. I agree that its a 
drag that they don't start with alternative fuels for transportation. But 
its a David versus Goliath kind of thing... except with no sling and no 
stones. There are ultra-rich, global, non-politically affiliated interests 
on this planet that don't want to see an alternative energy strategy until 
they figure out how to control and wildly profit from whatever it may be. 
That will happen when the exact last drop of oil spurts from the earth or 
when hell freezes over (whichever comes first). There was a movie called 
"Chain Reaction" which, while it was only a movie (with Keanu Reeves),  made 
you think.

Cheers all and may you have a happy and "lead free" New Year

Ray



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd at rddavis.org>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] RoHS


> Quothe harrybissell, from writings of Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 
> 10:46:24PM -0500:
>> Again... my point
>>
>> How many MiniMoogs get landfilled / incinerated every day ?
>
> Only a very, very, sick person would do that!
>
>> OTOH... how may of you have an 8086, 286, 386, 486, 586, 686...
>> still in your possession.  How many cell phones have you owned ?
>
> Still have my original C64, my old genuine IBM PC-XT, a IBM PC-AT,
> some 386 systems, 486 systems, 586 and 686, etc... not to mention
> various micros like a TRS-80, C-128, Dynabyte 5100, Franklin something
> or other (Ace?) and some real apples, from the Apple II to the little
> one-piece Macs through a G3 mac whose CPU I just replaced and
> overclocked to about 400 MHz.  Not to mention a PDP-8 and some 11's,
> etc.
>
> I have about 50 cell phones... all about alike.  Got used to my old
> Qualcomm, needed a replacement (still have the one that doesn't work,
> but wasn't successful at attempting to solder an SMT connection which
> came apart; Verizon replaced one for free, when it fell on the ground
> and a horse stepped on it... oops... guess that got landfilled, alas),
> and found someone selling a lot of 50 on them on e-bay for less than
> the cost of a replacement battery.  Mostly good, high-capacity
> batteries, came with them as well.  Anyone need a spare QCP-820 or two
> for a trade?
>
> Oh heck, I can't even bear to discard an old RCA 25" TV (branded as
> "Mural TV"... picked it up for $1 as surplus from a local community
> college about 20 years ago) set which has been on its side in the
> basememt for a decade or so; it had a beautiful picture it, but that
> HV tube in it wasn't all that well shielded and probably emitted lots
> of X-Rays despite that little bit of shielding.
>
> Of course, I am tempted to get rid of a spare 25" picture tube, that's
> taking up useable space, which I nabbed as part of an old TV set that
> someone had put out for the trash about 25 years ago, which I
> scavenged lots of good components from. :-)
>
> I still repair my 1984 VCR when belts in it go bad too...
>
> ...but then, I also drive 30+ year old cars and like to play with
> vacuum tube circuits.
>
> So... How is that for proof that electronic devices with leaded
> components aren't the problem, that people who discard them are the
> problems? :-)
>
>> This message was sent from a 6x86... recycled from a 486. On a dial
>
> Same here... couldn't bear to throw out the old motherboards; they might
> be useful for something or other someday.
>
>> up modem, with genuine rotary-dial telephone. Sorry, never owned
>> a cell phone.  What a luddite, eh ???   (or is that a LEADdite ???)
>
> Nah... sounds sensible to me... I still have one of those hand-set
> modems, and some genuine Bell System modems and calling units, but
> must admit to not using those.
>
> -- 
>   R. D. Davis                The difference between humans & other 
> animals: an
> www.rddavis.org  410-744-4900    unnatural belief that we're above Nature 
> & her
>     Dangling Spiders              other creatures, using dogma to justify 
> such
>   Electronic Music Studio           beliefs and to justify much human 
> cruelty. 


From tonyallgood at btinternet.com  Wed Jan 11 14:53:22 2006
From: tonyallgood at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:53:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <002101c616b1$98e38d70$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be> <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu> <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <896FB55A-E6EC-41F5-87A9-B6A460E1BFA0@asapnet.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20060110183733.0343aeb0@mail.earthlink.net> <005201c61650$edf837e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43C47F90.8E37778@prodigy.net> <20060111044614.GN25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002101c616b1$98e38d70$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
Message-ID: <43C50DD2.6030700@btinternet.com>

Ray, and others, what coating are you using on your boards instead of 
HASL [hot air solder levelling]?

I would have gone with gold plating since this seemed to have the best 
longevity, and the best compatibility with Pb-free and traditional 
solders. The cost was not too bad either. I did have a go at soldering 
on one of these boards. Its wasn't too bad, although it didn't solder 
fast as HASL.

Some of the other coatings I was offered had good solderability for only 
a few weeks.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 15:12:36 2006
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:12:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <004d01c6169b$381e7560$fb01010a@superman>
References: <002701c6168a$00dcdc10$0302a8c0@acerf7ke5hmde0>
	 <004d01c6169b$381e7560$fb01010a@superman>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80601110612y7bf14d20l945e8c9061208e18@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/06, Benjamin Riggs <ben.r at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Last I looked, the EU countries are well ahead of most other countries in
> the uptake of sustainable (renewable) energy sources, namely the US and
> China (the biggest fossil fuel users).
>
Yup,

And those damn Buessels Bureaucrats have also something to do with
this law (in use at least here in Finland), that regulates disposing
electronic/electric devices.

They have this RIDICULOUS idea of recycling/ post-processing
electronic junk - free of charge for customers. CFCs taken out of
refrigerators before recycling metals back to raw materials ect. It's
like damn fasism: If I want my 386 to end up landfill I should have
the RIGHT :P

Buying a new energy efficient refrigerator = good. (If the old one is recycled)
Buying a new cell phone every 6 months = consumerism..

"But they don't make 'em like they used to" is becoming more and more
evident. My almost 9 years old mobile phone still works. Since then
many mobile phone generations have passed.. new features, no real
added value to me. I don't have custom ring tones - but I also don't
have stories about "4 months old phone which started to power itself
off" ect.

This whole consumerism is pretty silly, but hey it keeps economy
growin' right? Stockholders happy? Money just likes money, money
doesn't have nationality. "Chinese are comin'" ready or not - todays
place to do cheap shit even cheaper and with current economy growth
huge future markets.

So, Let's enjoy this market capitalism to the bitter end.. F**k
protectionism. Maybe one day the smallest bit of the society isn't
dollar You spent, Euro I spent, but human beings (again?).

I don't think it's "enviromentalist BS", that We Westerners are
leading the race of consuming natural resources much faster, than it
can renew itself .

Samppa


From synpro at networld.at  Wed Jan 11 17:03:27 2006
From: synpro at networld.at (Peter Ullrich)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:03:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] strange music making method...
In-Reply-To: <001401c616c0$b08b7820$db81b418@roc.mn.charter.com>
References: <BFE963E0.2B257%peter@buzzclick-music.com> <43C4881D.95334837@prodigy.net> <001401c616c0$b08b7820$db81b418@roc.mn.charter.com>
Message-ID: <1136995407.43c52c4fc0f49@webmail.networld.at>


http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000880073478/
http://www.ganjatron.net/misc/scanjet/scanjet.html

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                               Ing. Peter Ullrich   
	               Hardware & Software Developer  /  Electronic Musician
                               Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt
   .oooO           
   (   )   Oooo.   
    \ (    (   )   
-----\_)----) /--------------------------------------------------------
           (_/




Zitat von Pat Kammerer <spivkurl at wearerecords.com>:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> To: Peter Grenader <peter at buzzclick-music.com>
> Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] RoHS
> 
> 
> > What a bunch of hooey RoHS is...
> >
> > if the EPA were really serious, they'd look at the larger
> > threat posed by the uncontrolled, and almost universal use
> > of Hydrogen Hydroxide / Hydric Acid.  Instead they pretend
> > it doesn't even exist.
> >
> > I questioned my company on this one... we use this in our
> > test procedures !
> >
> > HAVE YOU EVER seen the MSDS sheets for those ???
> 
> Or HT-825 used in polycarbonate coating.  We use it at work for scratch
> resistance, and the disposal procedures involve putting it in a bucket and
> having some redneck come and stomp on the lid to close.  (then where does it
> go....?)  It's a MUTAGEN!

--------------------------------------
Ein Service von http://www.networld.at


From matthias.herrmann at fonik.de  Wed Jan 11 17:52:05 2006
From: matthias.herrmann at fonik.de (Matthias Herrmann)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:52:05 +0100
Subject: AW: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin? (sorry, it's a bit long - make a cup of tea first)
In-Reply-To: <020b01c616aa$cb15e920$0202a8c0@DELL>
Message-ID: <NJBBKBFFILKAPCEALJNMAECKCBAA.matthias.herrmann@fonik.de>

hi julian,

i'm not quite sure if i posted these links already. they show the process of
etching a pcb using press'n peel blue:

http://www.tonepad.com/photoessay.asp?photoEssayID=10&sequenceNo=1 (use of
press'n peel blue transfer paper)

http://www.tonepad.com/photoessay.asp?photoEssayID=11&sequenceNo=1 (etching
using feric chlorid)

cheers!
matthias herrmann




-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]Im Auftrag von Steve Lenham
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2006 13:30
An: Julian
Cc: SDIY list
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin?
(sorry, it's a bit long - make a cup of tea first)


Hi Julian,

Only a laser printer or a photocopier will work with this system, because
what is happening when you iron the artwork on is that the laser toner is
melting and sticking to the copper. The blue sheets are specially formulated
to ensure that the toner adheres to the copper better than it does to the
sheet itself, so when you peel the sheet away the toner stays attached to
the copper. The toner then forms the etch resist.

Inkjet ink soaks into the paper and dries - it'll never stick to anything.
It's also water soluble so, even if you got that far, the liquid etchant
would dissolve it. All you can do with an inkjet is produce transparent
artwork which could be used to expose photosensitive board material, but
this requires more chemicals, equipment and operational stages, each of
which introduces new opportunities for error.

Suggestions:

Do any of your friends and family have a laser printer you could use? It's
not like you need it that often.

Alternatively (I hesitate to say this, as I'm really not a fan of the
consumerist society), laser printers are dirt cheap, especially (putting my
environmentalist hat back on) if you buy one secondhand off eBay. You've
already noted that it would be useful for panel artwork too - Rapid have a
nice system for that too! Cost would not be much more than the extra stuff
required for photosensitive board work, the results would be better and,
hell, you could print letters on it as well...

Cheers,

Steve L.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian" <julian at 22host24.com>
To: "Steve Lenham" <lenham at clara.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin?
(sorry, it's a bit long - make a cup of tea first)


> Hmm...
>
> I see the first flaw - actaully exactly the same issue i had with the
> lasertran pannel transfer stuff:
>
> I only have an inkjet.  And copy shops dont seem to like you putting your
> own paper through their machines (i guess in case it gets melted on or
> somthing)
>
> Photocopying may be easier though - with the lasertran i was looking for
> highrez colour stuff.
>
> You ever tried this transfer with inkjet?  Or know of an inkjet compatible
> alternative?
>
> Cheers, Julian
>
> (time to go to bed)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Lenham" <lenham at clara.co.uk>
> To: "SDIY list" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin?
> (sorry, it's a bit long - make a cup of tea first)
>
>
>> Hi Julian,
>>
>> Have been meaning to reply to this, esp. as not many others have.
>>
>> I make some of my own boards, both for my own use and as commercial
>> prototypes. Because I don't really enjoy doing so (it's dirty, smelly and
>> time-consuming), I only do it when there is a good reason. That reason is
>> usually that I only need one or two boards, and even the best commercial
>> boardmakers aren't very cost-effective at that volume. Any more (even if
> you
>> might only need the extras in the future) and I'd recommend getting them
>> commercially done. Another good reason might be that you need/want the
>> boards NOW rather than next week (or whatever).
>>
>> I also wouldn't entertain making anything other than single-sided boards.
>> Yes, it is possible to do double-sided at home but you need to work very
>> hard to get it right and, even if you get the layer alignment right,
> you'll
>> miss the plated-through holes terribly.
>>
>> If you're still up for it, the good news is that there is no black art
>> involved and I can recommend a simple system which has consistently
>> delivered me very good results (and everything comes from Rapid). The
> method
>> I use is optimised for speed and cleanliness and might not be the choice
> for
>> higher volumes - but IMHO you shouldn't be DIYing large volumes anyway...
>>
>> 1. Artwork
>>
>> Buy the blue Press-and-Peel sheets (Rapid 34-4450) and laser-print the
>> artwork onto them. Obviously it helps if you own a laser printer -
>> photocopying is also supposed to be possible but I've not tried it. If
>> you
>> have laid the board out yourself, you can print stright from the layout
>> software. Ditto if you have a PDF of someone else's layout. Paper artwork
>> can be scanned in, with the advantage that old magazine plots can be
> cleaned
>> up on the computer before printing. The only thing to watch out for is
>> slight scaling errors in the scanning (do a trial run on paper first),
>> but
>> quite acceptable results are possible - I did the old ETI phaser board
> that
>> way.
>>
>> The printed artwork is then ironed onto bare copper-clad board using a
>> clothes iron. Some people have reported that this is a tricky process but
> I
>> can honestly say that I have never had a problem or an unusable board.
>> The
>> critical thing is preparation of the board material. It needs to be
>> really
>> clean and really smooth. First get rid of any hint of a burr along the
> board
>> edge with a fine file (even a small burr will hold the artwork away from
> the
>> copper and prevent it adhering properly at the edges). I then use fine
> wire
>> wool to scrub off the oxide layer and make the copper really bright, wash
>> the board with a bit of washing-up liquid on some kitchen roll (as you
>> can
>> see I use only the most exotic of materials ;-) , rinse it with tap water
>> and dry it off.
>>
>> For the ironing, just follow the instructions which come with the sheets.
> I
>> did so, with no previous experience, and even my first board turned out
>> fine. They specify a range of times for applying heat - use the longest
> for
>> large boards and reduce it for smaller ones. It is better to iron for
>> slightly too long than too little time - overdoing it just causes the
> toner
>> to blur somewhat, but the board is very likely to still be usable.The
>> heat
>> of my iron just goes from 0 to 5 - I use 4. When done, cool the board
>> with
>> cold water and peel off the backing sheet - the toner of the artwork
> should
>> be stuck to the board.
>>
>> This method is good for quite fine artwork - it has no problems with
> tracks
>> passing between the pins of standard through-hole ICs.
>>
>> 2. Etching
>>
>> Buy the Seno etch-in-a-bag system (Rapid 34-0384). Yes, it's more
> expensive
>> than mixing up your own etchant in a pot but it keeps you as far away
>> from
>> the horrid ferric chloride as possible. You only need to ruin one pair of
>> trousers by getting etchant on them and the financial advantage of making
>> that board yourself will be but a distant memory.
>>
>> Again, just follow the instructions, which pretty much amount to putting
> the
>> board in the bag and swishing it around a bit. You can watch the board
>> through the clear bag and see for yourself when it is fully etched. You
> then
>> take it out through an "airlock" which keeps you separated from the
> etchant
>> as much as possible, and rinse off the board (preferably at the outside
>> tap - there will be a tiny bit of etchant still present).
>>
>> The toner can then be removed from the copper with wirewool.
>>
>> 3. Drilling
>>
>> You need a little handheld electric drill (Minicraft, Dremel, etc. -
>> still
>> all from Rapid) and a small selection of fine bits (0.8mm, 1.0mm and
>> 1.2mm
>> will get you a long way). A drill stand would be great, and saves the odd
>> broken drill, but is by no means essential (I haven't got one yet).
>>
>> Some may hold up their hands in horror, but I only use SRBP (paper) board
>> material for my DIY PCBs because it is SO much easier and quicker to
> drill.
>> It also spares you the foul-smelling and rather unhealthy fibreglass dust
>> which drilling conventional material generates. Even so, it's still nice
> to
>> rig up your vacuum cleaner to suck up the dust as it is created.
>>
>> That's about it! Excluding the drill, you are looking at expenditure of
>> about ?30 for the artwork sheets, the Seno etch kit and some board
> material.
>> Why not give it a go? Let me know if you need any more tips.
>>
>> Sorry for the ramble - layout software, layout technique and commercial
>> board manufacturers will have to wait for another day!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Steve L.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julian" <julian at 22host24.com>
>> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:31 PM
>> Subject: [sdiy] DIY pcbs - how difficult is it, and where to begin?
>>
>>
>> Right, Its something ive wondered about for a long time, but never made a
>> start with, so im wondering -  etching your own board: how much of a
>> black
>> art is it?
>>
>> How many attempts is it likely to take before i get it right (i know
>> thats
>> an open ended question, but, is it like 'wow - he got it to work first
>> time - amazing!' or what?)
>>
>> I have a friend who tried twice in the past, with no success, i suspect
> that
>> they were reasonably carefull, so thats what worries me ; )
>>
>> Is there some fool proof technique?  Im guessing that the variables of
>> temperature, time, and chemical makeup all affect things, so im wondering
> if
>> i can get a specific set of one make of chemicals / boards and just
>> follow
>> the directions to the letter - ie to take out any human skill on my
> behalf.
>>
>> I know some of you make boards all the time, but, as i say, im aware my
>> friend had no success, so it cant be that easy either.
>>
>> Any comments at all would be most appreciated.
>>
>> Again, im in England, so any suggested products need to be available here
>> too.
>>
>>
>> Failing all that, if i want to get a company to do it for me...
>>
>> To go from the schematic to pcb, i need to do the layout in some program
>> (any free and easy suggestions?) and upload the file to a company (i know
>> there have been threads in the past on companies), but, having never used
>> the layout software, im wondering how automated it all is?  Ie. is there
>> stuff i need to *know* about board layout rather then just being careful
>> with inputting data off schematic?  (Will i have decisions to make)
>>
>> Basically, id like to start on this, whichever way, but id really like
> some
>> pointers as to where to begin.
>>
>> Cheers, Julian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Wed Jan 11 18:28:46 2006
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:28:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601111925390.3141@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Tom Arnold wrote:

> In a fit of narrowmindedness earlier today I was quite fixated on a 4.400mhz
> crystal however after Paul S mentioned that getting one divisible by a power
> of 2 would be a better idea, I started considering other options.

Another option is to just use an arbitrary divider (counter and magnitude 
comparator). This way almost any crystal can be made to work within +- 1 
cents.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From clark at andrews.edu  Wed Jan 11 18:29:51 2006
From: clark at andrews.edu (clark at andrews.edu)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:29:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <43C50DD2.6030700@btinternet.com>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
    <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
    <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
    <896FB55A-E6EC-41F5-87A9-B6A460E1BFA0@asapnet.net>
    <6.2.1.2.2.20060110183733.0343aeb0@mail.earthlink.net>
    <005201c61650$edf837e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
    <43C47F90.8E37778@prodigy.net>
    <20060111044614.GN25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
    <002101c616b1$98e38d70$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog>
    <43C50DD2.6030700@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <34784.143.207.1.42.1137000591.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>

> Ray, and others, what coating are you using on your boards instead of
> HASL [hot air solder levelling]?
>
> I would have gone with gold plating since this seemed to have the best
> longevity, and the best compatibility with Pb-free and traditional
> solders. The cost was not too bad either. I did have a go at soldering
> on one of these boards. Its wasn't too bad, although it didn't solder
> fast as HASL.

   Hi Tony,

   The board house I use has posted their lead-free seminar documents
online.  I highly recommend reading them to understand the various
differnt finishes and pros/cons of each type:

   http://www.saturnelectronics.com/leadfree.htm

   Note that not only is suface finish important, but also the laminate
material as well.  This is mostly important to those of us using
convection reflow and wave soldering.
   The link below is to the finish I'll be working with.  It is sometimes
referred to simply as lead-free HASL, which keeps the cost down and
seems to have the best fit for both lead/lead-free processes and shelf
life.

http://www.floridacirtech.com/Databases/pdfs/SN100CL%20Sales%20Brochure.pdf

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 19:59:24 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:59:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer panel design is 99% complete. :) Interested in any constructive criticisms ......
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601111059o35597120t1e20aa51f18e1015@mail.gmail.com>

The pic is posted in my Design section, at my webpage, at:

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/design.html

It's an almost completely final design.  I'm interested in any constructive
criticisms from anyone, before I 100% finalize the design and drill the
Maple panel for it. :)
A 3U height rack panel doesn't have enough room for duplication of Gate
outputs as well as 7 bit divider outputs, or extra multiples. :(  But I have
only 1 x 6U Maple panel, which I'd like to save for an 8 step sequencer
(same design as the 4 step) as well as drum sequencers. :O

That's why I'm curious to any input, anyone may have, for this one. :)

Thanks for any input. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 20:01:55 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:01:55 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Synth in a Month
In-Reply-To: <a6fac3a00601110842o551537d0ua2228fd66457ee6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060111090015.F3BA12B2@duckula.hotkey.net.au>
	 <003c01c616c2$30d26880$db81b418@roc.mn.charter.com>
	 <a6fac3a00601110842o551537d0ua2228fd66457ee6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601111101o184c0365o7c57a2093af4ed3a@mail.gmail.com>

One thing that I've really liked about doing 'fake surface mount' of all of
my parts / sockets, is the ease there is, in removing a part from the
board.  Apply heat, and pull it off. :)
That's one of my most favourite things, from Bernie Hutchins' building tips.
:)

Plus - no DRILLING!  :D

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
1106 update
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From tonyallgood at btinternet.com  Wed Jan 11 20:36:09 2006
From: tonyallgood at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:36:09 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] sh101 help
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F27788B9CD944AB8A15DA49D3240@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F27788B9CD944AB8A15DA49D3240@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43C55E29.2030400@btinternet.com>

Very very common problem with the SH101. The power switch needs 
replacing. They should be carried by Roland Spares departments.

Or you could hard wire the switch permanently on with some wire links. 
There are three poles if I remember rightly. Its only a standby switch 
since the main switch is your powerplug so you don't gain anything with 
that switch.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From peter at buzzclick-music.com  Wed Jan 11 20:49:50 2006
From: peter at buzzclick-music.com (Peter Grenader)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:49:50 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] ROHS and VACTROLS - important!
In-Reply-To: <200601111414.06541.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <BFEAA15E.2B356%peter@buzzclick-music.com>

To all those shipping products with Perkin-Elmer Vactrols:

P/E will NOT meet OHS compliance requirements by the deadline  - BUT...they
have applied for and have been awarded an exemption.. BUT you will need to
ship a copy of that exemption form with the finished product as you would
have had to ship it's certification of compliance.

hope this helps,

- P



From rtellason at blazenet.net  Wed Jan 11 21:05:46 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:05:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] dual gate mosfets
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601110648j5d573272w4f6104fb475b97a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501200145.j0K1j8P11805@duckula.hotkey.net.au> <41F42EA6.4632FA7C@prodigy.net> <be546e560601110648j5d573272w4f6104fb475b97a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200601111505.46349.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Wednesday 11 January 2006 09:48 am, Johannes ?berg wrote:
> Bringing up an old thread. This one talked about using dual-gate MOSFETs
> for VCAs and similiar purposes.
>
> Does anybody have a pointer to schematics for SDIY useful constructions
> using dualgates? Googling gives only HAM stuff and I'm too dumb to know
> what changes need to be made for LF work.

I have _one_ equipment that uses one of those devices,  a Kustom Charger amp 
that I've modified somewhat.  They use one of those right at the input jacks,  
and it's *horribly* noisy.  Tried replacing it with another of the same type,  
and get about the same result...

It's not encouraging.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From cfmd at bredband.net  Wed Jan 11 21:36:39 2006
From: cfmd at bredband.net (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:36:39 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <20060111.213639.27967532.cfmd@bredband.net>

From: Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org>
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:16:55 -0800
Message-ID: <20060111121655.GH10396 at moo.sysabend.org>

> In a fit of narrowmindedness earlier today I was quite fixated on a 4.400mhz
> crystal however after Paul S mentioned that getting one divisible by a power
> of 2 would be a better idea, I started considering other options.

> Seems like a better idea is a standard cheap colourburst crystal like
> everyone else seems to use, and pull it the 500hz required to divide it
> cleanly.  No, it wont be power of 2 compatible, but it will be 25cents each
> and sealed in a metal box away from air currents and fast temperature
> variations it should be stable enough that after dividing the drift wont be
> noticable.


Well,

      455*525*30
f   = ---------- = 3579545,454545... Hz
 SC    2 * 1.001

f  = 8192 * 440 = 3604480 Hz
 0

f  - f   = 24934,545454... Hz
 0    SC

That would be about 3 Hz below and you need to pull some 20k before getting it
even risking sharp.

A 4,4 MHz oscillator divided by 625 followed by a 7-stage binary counter would
supply A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8. Simple enought.

Cheers,
Magnus


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Wed Jan 11 21:38:01 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:38:01 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: SV: Re: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs  LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20060109222046.01f468a0@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20060111203801.48583.qmail@web25510.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


--- James Patchell <patchell at cox.net> skrev:

> All I can say is that I have designed systems with less that >0.4nV/root Hz, 
which is a lot better than almost any audio >systems, and have used   78xx/79xx
regulators without any >problems at all.

Yes but you didnt say "if" you used 78xx in that 0,4n/hz system!
and i seriously doubth you did.

Besides the droop voltage of 78xx series is something people
often oversees, and the droop caused by load or irregular
loading can be devastating for a VCO regarding to tuning
aspects, so way use a 78xx in a VCO if you can use the 317
with way better performance at the same cost? 

>A properly designed 
>amplifier, or any circuit for that matter, will not care what >the noise level
on the power supply is.  Generally, all I care >about is that the power supply
have a good low impedance.

Thats is simply false.

No system is better then its power supply, if it was
we all would be running on 220V AC straight away!
And no decoupling capacitors!!

REg
KD


> 
> At 12:46 AM 1/10/2006 +0000, Seb Francis wrote:
> >This is a very good point, but nevertheless many hi-end audio circuits do 
> >seem to use better than 7xxx PSUs.  Maybe this is kind of over the top 
> >audiophile engineering, but I'm not so sure.
> >
> >In my application there isn't anything like a VCO that needs a really 
> >precise voltage, but there are however hi-end audio components (THAT VCAs 
> >in the compressor) that need to pass/process the audio with as little 
> >added noise as possible.  Also, the distortion processor elements have 
> >very high gain which will probably amplify any power supply noise.
> >
> >So while I don't want to get over-complicated, if a 317/337 PSU can give 
> >lower noise than a 7815/7915 PSU with only an extra couple of resistors 
> >then it seems worth it (maybe I have some traces of audiophile in my genes!
> ;)
> >
> >Seb
> >
> >P.S. The only digital bit (a PIC micro for the MIDI interface) has its own 
> >78L05 driven power rail.
> >
> >
> >
> >Paul Perry wrote:
> >
> >>There's another side to this regulator debate, and that is:
> >>just how good does the regulated supply need to be?
> >>When one looks at precision analog circuitry, you often see
> >>power rails no better than you would get from a LM78xx,
> >>but wherever a *really* precise voltage source is required, there is a 
> >>precision source dedicated to just that. And it is right there on the 
> >>board where it is wanted.
> >>Which at a stroke solves the problem of noise generated on the power 
> >>rails by switching transients etc.
> >>And, speaking of transients...... anyone serious (including some
> >>members here, I notice) have separate power rails for the digital stuff,
> >>and for the analog that they try to keep noise free.
> >>I personally think, the difference between the 78xx and other regs,
> >>is swamped by these other techniques..... and if you want to go the whole 
> >>distance, you are going to need to have precision voltage
> >>diodes & separate analog/digital lines anyway!
> >>
> >>paul perry Melbourne Australia
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
>          -Jim
> ***************************************************************
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell
> 
> ***************************************************************
> 
> 
> 


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Jan 11 22:15:00 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:15:00 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <20060111.213639.27967532.cfmd@bredband.net>
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org> <20060111.213639.27967532.cfmd@bredband.net>
Message-ID: <20060111211500.GM10396@moo.sysabend.org>

>       455*525*30
> f   = ---------- = 3579545,454545... Hz
>  SC    2 * 1.001
> 
> f  = 8192 * 440 = 3604480 Hz
>  0
> 
> f  - f   = 24934,545454... Hz
>  0    SC
> 
> That would be about 3 Hz below and you need to pull some 20k before getting it
> even risking sharp.

Forgetting power of 2 and unstead using circuit complexity to use a cheap
crystal :
8134 * 440 = 3578960 or a 500hz pull from 3579545, should be able to pull
2khz easily ( 3+ if I put two crystals in parallel, look online for the
SuperVXO ) so its well within range although it would be nice to find
something that'd pull to  3.604 or 7.208 so I'm still looking...

> A 4,4 MHz oscillator divided by 625 followed by a 7-stage binary counter would
> supply A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8. Simple enought.

Would it be overkill to just use a top octave divider and a 1mhz crystal?
:-)

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold -       When I was small, I was in love,                  - 
 - Sysabend   -       In love with everything.                          -
 - CareTaker  -       And now there's only you...                       - 
 --------------         -- Thomas Dolby, "Cloudburst At Shingle Street" -


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Wed Jan 11 22:21:02 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:21:02 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060110184039.0343eba0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20060111212102.23174.qmail@web25502.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

 Soon, within the next two weeks I'll get first hand experience in
> >lead-free production, and I'll be happy to share my results with the
> >group at that time (right now I'm in the process of getting lead-free
> >PCBs made).
> 
> It will be very interesting to hear those results.  It would be nice to 
> know more about the metallurgy here, but since no one is saying what their 
> lead-free alloys are this may be difficult to winkle out.

Just do a search on solder manufacturers or metall 
industry you will get plenty of info. 

For some reason west has gone with tin/copper/silver 
alloys, japan and some other uses tin/bismuth.

(sofar that is.)

KD


From rtellason at blazenet.net  Wed Jan 11 23:12:19 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:12:19 -0500
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <20060111210101.28262.qmail@web25514.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060111210101.28262.qmail@web25514.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200601111712.19703.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Wednesday 11 January 2006 04:01 pm, karl dalen wrote:
> The whole RHos thing is quite strange, at the same time everyone
> in the electronics industry is pestered with its regulations,
> the mining industry is having bonanza times! Here in Scandinavia
> they are reopening old lead mines!
>
> Really bizzare, yeasterday i was personally on one mining site
> to watch with my own eyes the mining compay cleaning up one of
> the old shafts from a mine originally mined in 1753!
> Old as hell but suddenly very, very proffitable!
>
> What the h...ll are they going to using the lead in?
> Im puzzled!

Car batteries.  The materials of which are approaching 100% recycled as it is.  
And they're talking about switching away from 12V to a 42V (?) system?  
That's going to need a lot more battery for each car...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From grichter at asapnet.net  Wed Jan 11 23:40:46 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:40:46 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] strange music making method...
In-Reply-To: <1136995407.43c52c4fc0f49@webmail.networld.at>
References: <BFE963E0.2B257%peter@buzzclick-music.com> <43C4881D.95334837@prodigy.net> <001401c616c0$b08b7820$db81b418@roc.mn.charter.com> <1136995407.43c52c4fc0f49@webmail.networld.at>
Message-ID: <4037A0AD-F58A-485A-9A6D-86A7A3ADB8F4@asapnet.net>

What a hoot!

That would be a great practical joke on somebody...

On Jan 11, 2006, at 10:03 AM, Peter Ullrich wrote:

> http://www.ganjatron.net/misc/scanjet/scanjet.html

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From rtellason at blazenet.net  Thu Jan 12 02:14:24 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:14:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <43C59FA0.8070909@ix.netcom.com>
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org> <20060111211500.GM10396@moo.sysabend.org> <43C59FA0.8070909@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <200601112014.24224.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Wednesday 11 January 2006 07:15 pm, Oren Leavitt wrote:
> An LC tuned Hartley (or other) oscillator with a few dividers might also
> be an option...
> LC oscs (with real inductors) are reasonbly stable.

That's what ARP did in the Omni,  as I recall...

> Tom Arnold wrote:
> >>      455*525*30
> >>f   = ---------- = 3579545,454545... Hz
> >> SC    2 * 1.001
> >>
> >>f  = 8192 * 440 = 3604480 Hz
> >> 0
> >>
> >>f  - f   = 24934,545454... Hz
> >> 0    SC
> >>
> >>That would be about 3 Hz below and you need to pull some 20k before
> >> getting it even risking sharp.
> >
> > Forgetting power of 2 and unstead using circuit complexity to use a cheap
> > crystal :
> > 8134 * 440 = 3578960 or a 500hz pull from 3579545, should be able to pull
> > 2khz easily ( 3+ if I put two crystals in parallel, look online for the
> > SuperVXO ) so its well within range although it would be nice to find
> > something that'd pull to  3.604 or 7.208 so I'm still looking...
> >
> >>A 4,4 MHz oscillator divided by 625 followed by a 7-stage binary counter
> >> would supply A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8. Simple enought.
> >
> > Would it be overkill to just use a top octave divider and a 1mhz crystal?
> >
> > :-)

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From rtellason at blazenet.net  Thu Jan 12 02:16:59 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:16:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Synth in a Month
In-Reply-To: <a6fac3a00601110842o551537d0ua2228fd66457ee6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060111090015.F3BA12B2@duckula.hotkey.net.au> <003c01c616c2$30d26880$db81b418@roc.mn.charter.com> <a6fac3a00601110842o551537d0ua2228fd66457ee6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200601112016.59258.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Wednesday 11 January 2006 11:42 am, megaohm wrote:
> This all may seem nit-picky but I have a good reason for it doing this way:
> It's easier to DESOLDER and remove components if the leads haven't been
> bent flat against the board. Once you have your full synth up and running,
> there will be some modules that could use a little tweaking (likely). Lets
> say you need to replace a couple resistors. You get rid of the solder with
> some wick/solder-sucker/whatever. But since the resistors have been bent to
> secure them before soldering, you will have to unbend them (usually with
> the soldering iron tip). It's not so great for the tip and having to use
> force can lead to peeled up traces, cracked thru hole, burning, etc.

I have more than one set of jeweler's screwdrivers on hand here,  and 
generally keep a couple of them out when I'm desolderin parts -- there's *no* 
reason to use the iron's tip for that purpose,  they don't last long enough 
to suit me anyhow...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From gene at ixiacom.com  Thu Jan 12 02:30:39 2006
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:30:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard controller leak
Message-ID: <BCD0C6AAF20CEA41903A1284F549D61703C2F18E@ixca-ex1.ixiacom.com>

Possible cause: solder flux causing sample/hold leakage. Solution: clean the
circuit with isopropyl, 91% or higher, 100% preferred. Once dry, clean
again, repeat a couple times. Warning: test any exotic capacitors for
tolerance to isopropyl first, since some of them can melt in alcohol.

- Gene


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Pat Kammerer
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:44 PM
To: sdiy
Subject: [sdiy] keyboard controller leak


I finally got back to testing and mounting a DIY version of Ray Wilson's
single bus keyboard, and I think I have a problem, but maybe not.  The issue
is that the output CV starts about right, but then drifts upward eternally
starting at about 3 seconds, maybe less.  Thus if I'm controlling a VCO and
just taking the ouput of that, the frequency starts in tune, and then raises
in pitch slowly until it is inaudible.  It take a minute or two.

I'm assuming this has to do with a S&H capacitor or something, but I could
be wrong.  I've been over the board checking connections and placement
several times.  I fixed any other issues I had with the board since I built
it, so this is what's left to track down.

Any help would be appreciated.


From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Thu Jan 12 02:34:08 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:34:08 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Synth in a Month
References: <20060111090015.F3BA12B2@duckula.hotkey.net.au> <003c01c616c2$30d26880$db81b418@roc.mn.charter.com> <a6fac3a00601110842o551537d0ua2228fd66457ee6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c61718$48fe09e0$db81b418@roc.mn.charter.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: megaohm <megaohm1 at gmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Synth in a Month


>This all may seem nit-picky but I have a good reason for it doing this way:
>It's easier to DESOLDER and remove components if the leads haven't been
bent
>flat against the board. Once you have your full synth up and running, there
>will be some modules that could use a little tweaking (likely). Lets say
you
>need to replace a couple resistors. You get rid of the solder with some
>wick/solder-sucker/whatever. But since the resistors have been bent to
>secure them before soldering, you will have to unbend them (usually with
the
>soldering iron tip). It's not so great for the tip and having to use force
>can lead to peeled up traces, cracked thru hole, burning, etc.

That does seem like good advise.  I often bend the leads with longevity of
physical connection in mind, but I guess the flip side is longevity of
mainenace ability.


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 12 02:36:59 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:36:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs  LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
References: <20060111203801.48583.qmail@web25510.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43C5B2BB.E85D3870@prodigy.net>

karl dalen wrote:

> Besides the droop voltage of 78xx series is something people
> often oversees, and the droop caused by load or irregular
> loading can be devastating for a VCO regarding to tuning
> aspects, so way use a 78xx in a VCO if you can use the 317
> with way better performance at the same cost?

1)  This would be a classic case of a poorly designed VCO that
used the power supply voltage for a reference... not a precision
reference for a reference. If the engineer did not stabilize the
VCO against this kind of problem, they were either sloppy... or
the design did not warrant the extra effort (hey good enough is good
enough !)

2) With the majority of opamps, such a droop of supply would probably
not
even affect amplitude of the waveforms (unless you were running them
in clipping...) If you WERE clipping and needed accurate amplitude...
there
are better ways to do that also (or good enough was good enough)

3) In a commercial product... if you used a 317 / 337 with a trimmer...
the
customer might do more damamge with a small screwdriver than a 78xx,
warts
included :^P

4) Maybe you stock 78xx and don't need to use another part... higher
volumes 
and lower prices

5) If I want adjustable, I reach for 317 / 337... for fixed I go with
78xx.
I will even use the dirty trick of a diode in the ground pin to change
the
voltage if I need that  :^)

I just think the 78xx series gets too much badmouth... they are NOT that
bad.
No worse than (lets say) the 555 anyway...

I did get burned, badly... once with a 78xx... but that was a defective
manufacturer / lot problem. Not enough to make me predjudiced...

H^) harry


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 12 02:48:19 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:48:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] ROHS and VACTROLS - important!
References: <BFEAA15E.2B356%peter@buzzclick-music.com> <001401c616fb$1028f5c0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <43C5B563.C530464E@prodigy.net>

incomplete "Jeopardy" question...

should have been "What.... that isn't equally, or more toxic ?"  ;^P

(most other photocell formulas are similar in heavy metal content)

H^) harry


"JH." wrote:
> 
> Haven't followed the thread, so maybe this was covered already:
> 
> What are they going to use instead of Cadmium ?
> 
> JH.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Grenader" <peter at buzzclick-music.com>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:49 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] ROHS and VACTROLS - important!
> 
> > To all those shipping products with Perkin-Elmer Vactrols:
> >
> > P/E will NOT meet OHS compliance requirements by the deadline  -
> BUT...they
> > have applied for and have been awarded an exemption.. BUT you will need to
> > ship a copy of that exemption form with the finished product as you would
> > have had to ship it's certification of compliance.
> >
> > hope this helps,
> >
> > - P
> >
> >
> >


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 12 03:26:35 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:26:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be> <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu> <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <896FB55A-E6EC-41F5-87A9-B6A460E1BFA0@asapnet.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20060110183733.0343aeb0@mail.earthlink.net> <005201c61650$edf837e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43C47F90.8E37778@prodigy.net> <20060111044614.GN25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002101c616b1$98e38d70$6501a8c0@rwilsonxphog> <43C50DD2.6030700@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <43C5BE5B.4E838AC8@prodigy.net>

We use nickel palladium gold. It works OK.  I'd prefer
HASL anyday.

Those old enough to remember the use of gold finishes from the
well... olden days will er... remember that sometimes solder
would NOT adhere to the gold well. There could be (and often
were) hairline cracks. A good looking solder fillet might
actually be floating in mid air, attached only to the
component lead.

Hmmmm......

H^) harry

Oakley Sound wrote:
> 
> Ray, and others, what coating are you using on your boards instead of
> HASL [hot air solder levelling]?
> 
> I would have gone with gold plating since this seemed to have the best
> longevity, and the best compatibility with Pb-free and traditional
> solders. The cost was not too bad either. I did have a go at soldering
> on one of these boards. Its wasn't too bad, although it didn't solder
> fast as HASL.
> 
> Some of the other coatings I was offered had good solderability for only
> a few weeks.
> 
> Tony
> 
> www.oakleysound.com


From rtellason at blazenet.net  Thu Jan 12 03:40:20 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:40:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Synth in a Month
In-Reply-To: <43C5BA79.F747C1FD@prodigy.net>
References: <20060111090015.F3BA12B2@duckula.hotkey.net.au> <200601112016.59258.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43C5BA79.F747C1FD@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <200601112140.20282.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Wednesday 11 January 2006 09:10 pm, harrybissell wrote:
> "Roy J. Tellason" wrote:
> > I have more than one set of jeweler's screwdrivers on hand here,  and
> > generally keep a couple of them out when I'm desolderin parts -- there's
> > *no* reason to use the iron's tip for that purpose,  they don't last long
> > enough to suit me anyhow...
>
> Maybe you're using too small a tip ???  ;^P

Actually all but one here are 1/8" chisel tips...

> Seriously... I use a Pomona "Mini Hook" to grab / yank the leads. This
> works even on a bent lead. (I'm careful if the board is extra fragile).

Those things ain't sturdy enough for the purpose,  though I suspect something 
of the sort which was more sturdy could be fabricated.  Perhaps a scrap of 
piano wire...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From heff_tw at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan 12 04:16:00 2006
From: heff_tw at bellsouth.net (Tim Heffield)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:16:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <200601112014.24224.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <BCELIELMOKOJPDFOAKFLOECHCJAA.heff_tw@bellsouth.net>

For what it is worth:

BG Micro sells 4.33618 MHz and 4.4444 MHz crystals for 50 cents.

Tim Heffield

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Roy J. Tellason
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:14 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] 440hz revisted


On Wednesday 11 January 2006 07:15 pm, Oren Leavitt wrote:
> An LC tuned Hartley (or other) oscillator with a few dividers might also
> be an option...
> LC oscs (with real inductors) are reasonbly stable.

That's what ARP did in the Omni,  as I recall...

> Tom Arnold wrote:
> >>      455*525*30
> >>f   = ---------- = 3579545,454545... Hz
> >> SC    2 * 1.001
> >>
> >>f  = 8192 * 440 = 3604480 Hz
> >> 0
> >>
> >>f  - f   = 24934,545454... Hz
> >> 0    SC
> >>
> >>That would be about 3 Hz below and you need to pull some 20k before
> >> getting it even risking sharp.
> >
> > Forgetting power of 2 and unstead using circuit complexity to use a
cheap
> > crystal :
> > 8134 * 440 = 3578960 or a 500hz pull from 3579545, should be able to
pull
> > 2khz easily ( 3+ if I put two crystals in parallel, look online for the
> > SuperVXO ) so its well within range although it would be nice to find
> > something that'd pull to  3.604 or 7.208 so I'm still looking...
> >
> >>A 4,4 MHz oscillator divided by 625 followed by a 7-stage binary counter
> >> would supply A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8. Simple enought.
> >
> > Would it be overkill to just use a top octave divider and a 1mhz
crystal?
> >
> > :-)

--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by
lies. --James
M Dakin



From davebr at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 12 05:39:11 2006
From: davebr at earthlink.net (David Brown)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:39:11 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601111925390.3141@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
 <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601111925390.3141@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060111203411.05f24100@earthlink.net>

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From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu Jan 12 05:51:52 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:51:52 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Synth in a Month
References: <20060111090015.F3BA12B2@duckula.hotkey.net.au> <200601112016.59258.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43C5BA79.F747C1FD@prodigy.net> <200601112140.20282.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <001701c61733$e893a940$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

I recommend the cheap stainless steel dental pick set 
that some of the surplus dealers have. In particular, you
can clean out a plated thru hole by just melting the solder
(if necessary ADD a little solder) then push the pick thru &
waggle it while the solder cools. Then pull out the pick..
and there you are!

paul perry Melbourne Australia
----- Original Message ----- 
> > Seriously... I use a Pomona "Mini Hook" to grab / yank the leads. This
> > works even on a bent lead. (I'm careful if the board is extra fragile).


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu Jan 12 05:59:25 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:59:25 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Linear PSU options .. 7815/7915 vs  LM317/LM337 vs 723 etc
References: <20060111203801.48583.qmail@web25510.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <43C5B2BB.E85D3870@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <002d01c61734$f6576a20$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

So did I.....
78XX is about the only component that I insist
having a 'famous' manufacturer.
Oh, and if you want a small Alps pot, it's worth
(imho) getting Alps.
As for the 555..... I read an interview with the designer, who
is a bit suoprised that after all this time nobody has tried to 
make a 'better' one. (OK, there are low power versions, 
CMOS versions, but no actual new design as such).
If only I had enough 'mad' money, I'd pay him to do
an oct/V version.....

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "harrybissell"
 > I did get burned, badly... once with a 78xx... but that was a defective
> manufacturer / lot problem. Not enough to make me predjudiced...


From seancostello2003 at comcast.net  Thu Jan 12 07:46:05 2006
From: seancostello2003 at comcast.net (Sean Costello)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:46:05 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Whammy Pedal Mods?
References: <53cb34390601101127t6600747er843dd7d6a7c696aa@mail.gmail.com> <002901c6163a$08099dc0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <002e01c61743$dd1ab300$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>

Line 6 is apparently contemplating the idea of allowing 3rd parties to develop and sell (license?) algorithms for their Tone Core pedals. The knob interface and ROM of the Tone Core pedals is a unit that can be removed from the basic Tone Core chassis. The DSP is a Motorola 56364.

Not really DIY, unless you run a company that produces commercial effects. Also, not sure what the manufacturing/profit model is.

As far as DSPs that can overcome the A/D and D/A problems, take a look at the upcoming ADAU1701 DSP from Analog Devices: 

http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0%2C2877%2CADAU1701%2C00.html

I haven't used this DSP, but I have seen it demoed at AES, and it seems like it might be useful for simpler digital audio applications. It has 2 ADC and 4 DAC on chip, so all you need is EEPROM and a crystal and you are up and running. Not sure if it will have an external SRAM interface or not - you would need it for any delay applications beyond chorus/flanger territory. The development tool, SigmaStudio, is like Max/MSP, if Max/MSP wasn't ugly as sin. 

Sean Costello (who works for Analog Devices, but not in the SigmaDSP division)
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Perry 
  To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [sdiy] Whammy Pedal Mods?

  This opens another question though... are there any bits 
  of gear that people have re-written operating systems for?
  Some people (NOT me!) are hot on programming, but stopped
  by the not inconsiderable a/d d/a interface hurdle.. maybe there are some
  cheap audio fx units that are useful as a DIY DSP platform?

  paul perry Melbourne Australia
    I just bought the newest version whammy pedal the other day and it seems to have a design "feature" (flaw) that I didn't expect.  In the harmony modes there is no way to get a 100% wet signal.  Does anyone know of any mods for the whammy pedal to provide the 100% wet signal?  Is it hopelessly SMD and complicated in there?  I am hoping to hear from someone who has poked around inside a whammy pedal before I decide to void my warranty.  I bought it new and I can still return it. 
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From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Jan 12 09:04:47 2006
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:04:47 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <43C5FA87.50407@uni-bonn.de>
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org> <20060111.213639.27967532.cfmd@bredband.net> <20060111211500.GM10396@moo.sysabend.org> <43C59FA0.8070909@ix.netcom.com> <43C5FA87.50407@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <43C60D9F.9030205@ix.netcom.com>

Yes, that might be possible with a common 455kHz resonator.
440Hz * 2^10 = 450.560kHz

Ren? Schmitz wrote:
> 
> 
> Oren Leavitt wrote:
> 
>> An LC tuned Hartley (or other) oscillator with a few dividers might 
>> also be an option...
>> LC oscs (with real inductors) are reasonbly stable.
> 
> 
> Or one could try pulling a ceramic resonator. These can be pulled over a
> wider range than crystals.
> 
> Cheers,
>  Ren?
> 


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu Jan 12 10:05:25 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:05:25 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org> <20060111.213639.27967532.cfmd@bredband.net> <20060111211500.GM10396@moo.sysabend.org> <43C59FA0.8070909@ix.netcom.com> <43C5FA87.50407@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <001a01c61757$560e2900$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/henry01/a440_oscillator/a440_oscillator.htm

Top of the heap for Google for 440HZ crystal divider ;D

paul perry melb australia 
(I still want to short Google, though...)


From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Thu Jan 12 11:58:55 2006
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:58:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <43C60D9F.9030205@ix.netcom.com>
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org> <20060111.213639.27967532.cfmd@bredband.net> <20060111211500.GM10396@moo.sysabend.org> <43C59FA0.8070909@ix.netcom.com> <43C5FA87.50407@uni-bonn.de> <43C60D9F.9030205@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <43C6366F.9020104@uni-bonn.de>

Hi all,

Oren Leavitt wrote:
> Yes, that might be possible with a common 455kHz resonator.
> 440Hz * 2^10 = 450.560kHz

If rasing the loading capacitors doesn't help, a coil in series to 
decreases the frequency also.

Might be a simple job for a 4060, since that already has the oscillator 
circuit built in. The 2^10 output is missing though, so an extra ff is 
required. Then again, the individual outputs would generate A's in 
octaves above and beloy 440Hz. Must try that some time.

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159



From ben.r at iinet.net.au  Thu Jan 12 13:29:30 2006
From: ben.r at iinet.net.au (Benjamin Riggs)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:29:30 +0800
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <200601111712.19703.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <000801c61773$d8ea00d0$fb01010a@superman>

Well, it'll require a battery with more cells, but it will have the same
power requirement (higher voltage but less current, that's why they are
doing it), plate surface area will be approximately the same so I doubt they
will require more lead.

Although 4x number of cells means 4x the chance of a cell failing thus much
shorter life.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Roy J. Tellason
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:12 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: SV: Re: [sdiy] RoHS

Car batteries.  The materials of which are approaching 100% recycled as it
is.  
And they're talking about switching away from 12V to a 42V (?) system?  
That's going to need a lot more battery for each car...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest
-- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can be killed but
can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies.
--James 
M Dakin


From rainer at buchty.net  Thu Jan 12 14:31:06 2006
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:31:06 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <20060111044614.GN25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>
 <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
 <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <896FB55A-E6EC-41F5-87A9-B6A460E1BFA0@asapnet.net>
 <6.2.1.2.2.20060110183733.0343aeb0@mail.earthlink.net>
 <005201c61650$edf837e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43C47F90.8E37778@prodigy.net>
 <20060111044614.GN25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0601121413160.17848@i82pc05.itec.uni-karlsruhe.de>

>So... How is that for proof that electronic devices with leaded
>components aren't the problem, that people who discard them are the
>problems? :-)

No proof.

One day you're gone and your heirs (or whoever else) has to clean up the
mess, dumping a gazillion of antique computers and useless cell phones
where you might not even get service for anymore.

What you do is just delaying that process.

Where I can understand that someone keeps their old computers (still
have my AIM65, ZX81, TI99/4A, various C64+C128D including peripherals)  
for sentimental reasons, I just don't get the point about having 30 cell
phones.

Similarly, I don't get it why people keep their old x86 machines (apart
from maybe 1 or 2 which run some old, *still required and actively used*
software which doesn't play nicely with modern x86 or OS incarnation).

Just because you collect that stuff in the basement, you're *not* 
reducing waste but only postponing the dumping process.

So why did I jump on this:

When my grandpa died, we had to clean his house -- and in the end dumped
several cubic meters(!) of scrap metal which he kept for building
storage shelves, several dozen used tires which he kept cause they would
still run a couple of 100 miles (in case he found the right wheel rims
in the scrap metal plus a car which they might fit on), and a gazillion
of yoghurt mugs (which he used for growing plants from seeds) plus
cut-open tetrapacks used for freezing cherries, berries, and whatever
else he grew in his garden. One of the beds he grew tomatos in was an
old sailing boat filled with soil which he put on top of his garage,
extending acreage... Talk about the fun of getting rid of that (mind
you, in Germany we measure ground in square meters, not acres...).

So for the sake of those who come after you: *don't* keep old stuff just
for the sake of keeping it or possibly repairing it after your
retirement, 20 or more years in the future. And no, you are *not*
helping the environment with turning your basement into a landfill.

Rainer


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 12 16:36:15 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <000801c61773$d8ea00d0$fb01010a@superman>
Message-ID: <20060112153615.32042.qmail@web51014.mail.yahoo.com>

Bzzzt
  
  wrong answer. It will require a BIGGER battery. The increase in the
  electronic content has driven the POWER requirements up, so that
  the existing 12V systme can't deliver the power without using 4/0
  cables.  They need higher voltages, and maybe slightly reduced..
  current. Its not equal.
  
  MORE POWER !!!
  
  H^) harry

Benjamin Riggs <ben.r at iinet.net.au> wrote:  Well, it'll require a battery with more cells, but it will have the same
power requirement (higher voltage but less current, that's why they are
doing it), plate surface area will be approximately the same so I doubt they
will require more lead.

Although 4x number of cells means 4x the chance of a cell failing thus much
shorter life.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Roy J. Tellason
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:12 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: SV: Re: [sdiy] RoHS

Car batteries.  The materials of which are approaching 100% recycled as it
is.  
And they're talking about switching away from 12V to a 42V (?) system?  
That's going to need a lot more battery for each car...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest
-- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can be killed but
can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies.
--James 
M Dakin



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From blacet at blacet.com  Thu Jan 12 17:27:20 2006
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:27:20 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0601121413160.17848@i82pc05.itec.uni-karlsruhe.de>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be> <51020.143.207.1.42.1136908670.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu> <20060110194142.GB25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <896FB55A-E6EC-41F5-87A9-B6A460E1BFA0@asapnet.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20060110183733.0343aeb0@mail.earthlink.net> <005201c61650$edf837e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43C47F90.8E37778@prodigy.net> <20060111044614.GN25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0601121413160.17848@i82pc05.itec.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <43C68368.6030704@blacet.com>

I'm no expert on this mess but it does seem like there are a lot of 
exemptions (especially item 15 in the link below) that indicate that 
there are serious concerns about the long term reliability of the process!

http://www.pb-free.info/rohsexemptions.htm

It looks like consumer equiment is the only thing really targeted, with 
the assumption that we don't need reliability anyway!

-- 
Regards,
John Blacet

Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com


From rfahl at pdx.edu  Thu Jan 12 17:58:04 2006
From: rfahl at pdx.edu (Romeo Fahl)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:58:04 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero oscillator...
In-Reply-To: <200601121622.k0CGMwp4002392@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
References: <200601121622.k0CGMwp4002392@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <d53bf569f9f446eee6c7b2f42d1f55b1@pdx.edu>

Hi,

I've built both the Electronotes Option 4 Thru-zero VCO and the EN 129 
version.  What would you like to know about them?

LM307s are just basically bread and butter opamps, I think an improved 
741.  When in doubt, use a TL071.  I've subbed all sorts of opamps in 
EN projects and they work fine.

Romeo


On Jan 12, 2006, at 8:22 AM, rdrake wrote:

> my holiday present to myself was the complete set of Electronotes 
> (thanks, Bernie--now my head's about to explode, and there's $200 
> worth of parts in my Jameco shopping cart).  seriously, i should have 
> gotten these years ago, what a treasure trove.  i'll be digesting for 
> months, hopefully some of what i do by trial&error will start being 
> guided by something more than guessing.
>
> most of the circuits show older op-amps, and there's some info on 
> substitutions, but there's still some holse.  specifically, i'm 
> wondering about what to use for the lm307s in the Random source option 
> 2... and more generally, what characteristics (in order of importance) 
> should i be concerned with matching when choosing modern equivelents 
> of older ICs?
>
> i'm also looking at the thru-zero VCO... pretty complex project, but 
> i'll never be buying one from cyndustries... any of you oldtimers ever 
> build one of these beasts?
>
> bbob
>


From jhaible at debitel.net  Thu Jan 12 18:08:31 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible at debitel.net)
Date: 12 Jan 2006 18:08:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Adding mono mode on Juno-6
In-Reply-To: <000701c617ae$84515970$65abbc44@cyberup0n1qn6z>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20051230222015.0285e8c8@pop.west.cox.net> <43B68EEA.7070909@burnit.co.uk> <002001c60e19$ef18f7c0$3a95b418@roc.mn.charter.com> <000701c617ae$84515970$65abbc44@cyberup0n1qn6z>
Message-ID: <1137085711.43c68d0f7c3c5@www.debitel.net>

The problem is that the JU-6 doesn't have VCOs.
I guess that's why they didn't implement a monophonic mode (as opposed
to it's hardest competition, the Korg Polysix, which had VCOs)
Even though the waveshaping is analogue, the timing / pitch control is
not, so you'd have to detune the voices in the digital domain.I doubt there
was enough resolution to do this, back then.

JH.


> I am concidering hacking in a mono operation mode on my Juno-6. The schemo's
> I have are kinda low quality and not so complete. I'm sure its doable tho.
> Off the top of my head I was thinking of taking the note value from voice 1
> (from the inputs of the 4051) and routing them via 244 buffers to the
> remaining voices 4051 inputs. From there I would think it would be best to
> use only voice 1's vca and filter to keep it clean sounding.
> The addition of keybd glide has me a bit perplexed since it need to be
> duplicated for each CV. Maybe using voice 1's CV out and buffering it to the
> rest of the vco's would be better since there would be only one CV to deal
> with (and add glide to).
> 
> Input? Suggestions? Bueller?
> 
> 




-------------------------------------------------
debitel.net Webmail


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu Jan 12 18:28:43 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:28:43 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <43C5FA87.50407@uni-bonn.de>
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org> <20060111.213639.27967532.cfmd@bredband.net> <20060111211500.GM10396@moo.sysabend.org> <43C59FA0.8070909@ix.netcom.com> <43C5FA87.50407@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <20060112172843.GR10396@moo.sysabend.org>

On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 07:43:19AM +0100, Ren? Schmitz wrote:
> Oren Leavitt wrote:
> >An LC tuned Hartley (or other) oscillator with a few dividers might also 
> >be an option...
> >LC oscs (with real inductors) are reasonbly stable.
> 
> Or one could try pulling a ceramic resonator. These can be pulled over a
> wider range than crystals.

I tried that and found it "hunted" around the target frequency a little more
then I'd like.  Crystals and resonators seem to pull "stabily"  about the
same distance.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From blacet at blacet.com  Thu Jan 12 19:14:00 2006
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:14:00 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601120957m7ec4ad2cm145beae4b0819d93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <W8349127023291991136883539@nocme1bl6.telenet-ops.be>	 <896FB55A-E6EC-41F5-87A9-B6A460E1BFA0@asapnet.net>	 <6.2.1.2.2.20060110183733.0343aeb0@mail.earthlink.net>	 <005201c61650$edf837e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>	 <43C47F90.8E37778@prodigy.net>	 <20060111044614.GN25308@rhiannon.rddavis.org>	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0601121413160.17848@i82pc05.itec.uni-karlsruhe.de>	 <43C68368.6030704@blacet.com>	 <6.2.1.2.2.20060112102746.0343ceb0@mail.earthlink.net>	 <43C692C0.4080207@tampabay.rr.com> <be546e560601120957m7ec4ad2cm145beae4b0819d93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C69C68.7000409@blacet.com>

There is also some ambiguous verbiage about "being placed on the market" 
which leads me to believe that products placed on the market before July 
1st are also exempt. Since the modular industry does not built a new VCO 
every year, this might be good.



Johannes ?berg wrote:

> Or consumers are simply considered the weakest part with the least 
> protesting capability, and not interessting enough in the bribes 
> department...
>
> Anyway the text talks about spare parts for stuff made before 1 july 
> 2006. I would certainly consider synthesizer modules to be spare 
> parts! :-) I'm no lawyer for sure, but say you are replacing your 
> failing VCO module with a new one. Spare part, I would say. Must the 
> spare also be made before 1 july?
>
> /J
>
> >http://www.pb-free.info/rohsexemptions.htm 
> <http://www.pb-free.info/rohsexemptions.htm>
> >
> >It looks like consumer equiment is the only thing really targeted, with
> >the assumption that we don't need reliability anyway! 


-- 
Regards,
John Blacet

Blacet Research
http://www.blacet.com

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From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Thu Jan 12 19:26:24 2006
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 05:26:24 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Questions about notes...
References: <20060111124001.GI10396@moo.sysabend.org> <20060111190626.GB1834@vulcain.knox.com>
Message-ID: <00e301c617a6$542b6d60$0401a8c0@laurie>

Hope you find the attached table useful

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Mobile: 0404 846 943

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended for the addressee only.
If you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or otherwise use it, or any part
of it, in any form whatsoever. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender
and ensure that all copies of this e-mail and any files transmitted with it are deleted. Any views
or opinions represented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of Elby Designs. Although this e-mail and its attachments have been scanned for the
presence of computer viruses, Elby Designs will not be liable for any losses as a result of any
viruses being passed on.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Andre Majorel 
  To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [sdiy] Questions about notes...


  On 2006-01-11 04:40 -0800, Tom Arnold wrote:

  > So, if A4 is 440hz / Midi Note 69, that would make C0 approx 16.3hz /
  > Midi Note 12, and thus Midi note 0 would be approx 8.17hz and C(-1)?

  Midi note 0 is 69 semitones below note 69 and thus should be

    $ perl -e 'print 440 * 2 ** (-69/12), "\n"'
    8.17579891564368

  Yep, about 8.18 Hz.

  Tom, I don't know what you're going to do about the 440 Hz crystal
  reference but I'm interested.

  -- 
  Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
  http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/
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From patchell at cox.net  Thu Jan 12 19:36:20 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:36:20 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] I need to get rid of some stuff...
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060112103205.025f33c0@pop.west.cox.net>

I hate it when people do this...but hopefully, most of you will consider 
this an opportunity to pick up some useful junk.  And please reply to me 
off list...so we don't clog SDIY up...

http://members.cox.net/~patchell/JimsStuffForSale/JimsStuffForSale.html

Oh yes...and the reason I need to get rid of this stuff is detailed on this 
page...

http://members.cox.net/~patchell/NoniSaysYes/NoniSaysYes.html

Oh yes...the prices don't cover shipping...

I would prefer to sell the BIG stuff in So. Cal...but I am flexible.


         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************



From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Jan 13 02:15:34 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:15:34 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero oscillator...
In-Reply-To: <200601121622.k0CGMwp4002392@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
References: <200601121622.k0CGMwp4002392@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <4C900780-CCEE-4EAB-B839-DAF763970D6F@asapnet.net>

>
> most of the circuits show older op-amps, and there's some info on  
> substitutions, but there's still some holse.  specifically, i'm  
> wondering about what to use for the lm307s in the Random source  
> option 2... and more generally, what characteristics (in order of  
> importance) should i be concerned with matching when choosing  
> modern equivelents of older ICs?

Just use a TL07x op-amp in place of anything except a CA3130 or CA3140.

>
> i'm also looking at the thru-zero VCO... pretty complex project,  
> but i'll never be buying one from cyndustries... any of you  
> oldtimers ever build one of these beasts?
>

I built a quadrature thru-zero oscillator for panning the JAG using  
an LM13700 and MAX365.
They are nice for panning because they reverse direction correctly  
when you run the control thru-zero.

The quadrature waveshaper is here:

http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Waveshapers/quadrature.html

Just sum the quadrature triangles to make trapezoids.

What good all this is in the audio realm I don't know? FM still  
sounds like FM always did.


From gene at ixiacom.com  Fri Jan 13 02:24:43 2006
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:24:43 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] help me finish my 2xASM1-based modular system.. (ASM-X
	)
Message-ID: <BCD0C6AAF20CEA41903A1284F549D61703C2F1B3@ixca-ex1.ixiacom.com>

(sorry for the delay, I blame my kids...)

suggestions for 3 and 4:

#3 - Use 78xx/79xx regulators. No, wait, use 317/337's. No, wait, go onto
eBay and get a PowerOne HAA-something...

My MO for regulators is this: the 78xx/79xx series are for replacements of
the same in existing stuff. If I want to roll my own, the 317/337 is easily
my first choice. They work perfectly and are adjustable over a wide range.
Not only that, I inherited a bunch of each from when my old company folded.
:) If I want to skip the building time then I'll jump on to eBay and get a
PowerOne. They can be ridiculously cheap. Once I wanted to make a 12v supply
(not 42v, ha ha) to power automotive accessories like air compressors etc.
As you may know the current needs for some of these things is beyond the
range available in regulators, so it's not your normal DIY power supply. I
didn't want to use raw unregulated DC since the voltage isn't reliable and
to keep the ripple down you need way huge caps. So I eBay'ed for a PowerOne
and got a new-in-box 12V 10A for $10 no reserve. I was the only bidder and
the seller emailed to say I *stole* it, fair and square. Something like $250
new.

#4 I defer to those who do this more than I

ASM-1 advice (as I wipe away the cobwebs):

Some outputs come directly from op-amp outputs and need a 1K series resistor
if you want to go to a patch panel, to fit the standard modular model and
protect the op-amps. The missing ones were purely oversights when I laid out
the PCB.

If the ADSR gates also come from the outside world, add a series diode to
only allow positive gates. The input LM358 is running on a single +15 supply
and *hates* negative inputs. It doesn't blow up, but it thinks it's positive
and falsely triggers the EG.

Re: 42v in cars - I think it makes sense, even if only for the elimination
of the clumsy 12v starter motor. My wife has a 4WD hybrid and it's pretty
cool what's going on in there. The CVT makes total sense. I've believed for
a long time that the ideal moving machine should use electricity for the
motive power. It's controllable and instantaneous, and easily converted to
kinetic energy and back again into electricity. With enough smarts built
into it, and low-loss current control, you don't have to waste any of it.
We're practically there with the smarts and the control, now the storage
remains as the next hurdle. The hybrids can be used to iron out the kinks
till we figure out the storage thing. And LED tailights are cool. Literally.
Can you believe we still heat up metal almost to melting in a vacuum and use
the side-effect photons as lights?

- Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Jay Vaughan
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 3:39 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] help me finish my 2xASM1-based modular system.. (ASM-X)


hi all,

i've finally received my ASM-1 boards (Gene Stopp originals!) from 
storage in LA, and its time now to complete this project .. i've got 
the boards completed, all components in and soldered and ready to go, 
so now its time for the following:

1. design a panel to accomodate two ASM-1 boards
2. wire the panel
3. hack up a power supply to handle both boards
4. hack up a CV/MIDI convertor to handle both boards

i was wondering if anyone on synth-diy had some opinions/suggestions 
for what i could do for #3/#4?  i'd like the 'easiest' option .. so 
if there is a module kit out there already that could possibly 
accomodate these two features (power and CV/MIDI) maybe someone wants 
to recommend it to me?

that said, i do have a pretty good idea for what i'm going to do 
about the panel .. and i think i may just end up keeping space for 
more modules to add to this system, sort of use the ASM-1's as a 
starting base for my 'dream' modular system, so what else can go 
along with the ASM1 design that would be of interest?

its been a few years since i dug into the ASM1 treasure-chest .. 
perhaps some of you (by now) old ASM1 pro's can give me a bit of 
enlightenment as to interesting directions to take with these boards? 
since its going to be constructed out of two complete ASM1 boards, 
i'm calling it the 'ASM-X' system, heh heh ..

-- 

;

Jay Vaughan


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan 13 04:55:59 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:55:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Adding mono mode on Juno-6
References: <20060112201228.93375.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> <002801c6180a$31777610$65abbc44@cyberup0n1qn6z>
Message-ID: <43C724CF.178F53F4@prodigy.net>

Travis wrote (inline)

No midi on the 6....it was the first of the Juno series and came out
before the midi protocol was finalised. It does have a "test" mode (hold
down the key transpose key @ pwr up) that activates all voices at once,
but it sounds like ass. 

So the "oscillators" are purely digital? 
I don't know that.  Since you talked about the CV/demux I presumed they
were analog.  Just that it would be easier (if you had MIDI) to try and
get
'unison' mode that way.  

To monkey with the D/A and the Demux would be tricky. If you tried
to drive six of the demux channels at the same time, the capacitive load
would
probably drag the D/A down and give you unwanted 'glide'.  Likewise...
handling
the glide could be tricky anyway.


That
section of my schems is missing but from the filter/envelope sections
(CV from outs of 4051 demux) but I assumed that the wave generation
was the same. If that's the case, screw it. The filters and env's sound
nice in this and I thought it would kill as a monosynth. 


Anyone have a
complete schemo set to email? I'd like to poke into this further.

If you get a set, cc me. I'd like to play too... (retrofits are good
fun!)

H^) harry


From mtechgroup at onemain.com  Fri Jan 13 05:34:33 2006
From: mtechgroup at onemain.com (MTG)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:34:33 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Whammy Pedal Mods?
References: <53cb34390601101127t6600747er843dd7d6a7c696aa@mail.gmail.com> <002901c6163a$08099dc0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <002e01c61743$dd1ab300$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>
Message-ID: <00cd01c617fa$a87a7ba0$fb96b2d1@oemcomputer>

> This opens another question though... are there any bits 
> of gear that people have re-written operating systems for?
> Some people (NOT me!) are hot on programming, but stopped
> by the not inconsiderable a/d d/a interface hurdle.. maybe there are some
> cheap audio fx units that are useful as a DIY DSP platform?

What about this:

http://www.soundart-hot.com/english/

http://www.soundart-hot.com/english/developers/interviews.shtml

GB


From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Jan 13 05:54:01 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:54:01 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha MEP-4
In-Reply-To: <001201c617df$babea540$e052f844@altitudeplyv32>
References: <001201c617df$babea540$e052f844@altitudeplyv32>
Message-ID: <9D37E5B0-6BEE-4B8E-AD90-6FDA7A5B80CA@asapnet.net>

>
> Yamaha MEP-4 will do this for you.  I'm sure other (smaller, newer)  
> boxes
> will too.
>

MEP-4 is a really fun box. You can do MIDI delays and flange.
Also change velocity, mod wheel or breath control to Note Ons for  
showers of notes.
(one way to test the robustness of a MIDI interface, that will crash  
it if it can be done)
Some very whack uses for a box that probably can now be bought for  
$25 or less.


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 07:40:25 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:40:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Attaching covers to toggle switches - anyone done?
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601122240y37d39f46q486c1c03b510ad79@mail.gmail.com>

I came up with a slightly odd / different idea tonight at work, for part of
modular synth. ;)

Has anyone out there, attached covers to their toggle switches?  To cover
the moving switch portion itself?
I thought of something tonight that I'd like to cover the 30 of them in my
sequencer panel with.
Looking at the shape of the toggle switch though, it's slightly larger at
the end, than it is closest to the switch.  So anything that I attached onto
it, would have the hole large enough to fit over the end - which would make
it looser at the bottom.

My only thought so far (so that it was not PERMANENT, if I had to replace
the switch), was silicone, or liquid (hardening later) rubber.  I don't know
how sturdy these would be though.

Anyone - have any past experiences with this / thoughts / ideas on it?

Thanks for any suggestions. :)  I'm going to try my first one withOUT
anything else inserted, and see how well it holds. :)  If I'm lucky, I wont
need ANYthing to hold 'this' on. ;)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage - Jan.
0406 update
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From davebr at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 13 07:45:59 2006
From: davebr at earthlink.net (David Brown)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:45:59 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] 440hz revisted
In-Reply-To: <20060112172639.GQ10396@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20060111121655.GH10396@moo.sysabend.org>
 <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601111925390.3141@vipunen.hut.fi>
 <7.0.0.16.2.20060111203411.05f24100@earthlink.net>
 <20060112172639.GQ10396@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060112221245.05f17128@earthlink.net>

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From grichter at asapnet.net  Fri Jan 13 07:54:07 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:54:07 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero oscillator...
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601122229n131ae6d5o9a702b91de2d87b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200601121622.k0CGMwp4002392@mmm1113.verio-web.com> <4C900780-CCEE-4EAB-B839-DAF763970D6F@asapnet.net> <b6b288a70601122229n131ae6d5o9a702b91de2d87b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD6C262C-BEF6-47BA-A1B2-601DB56C7A97@asapnet.net>

> Please clarify for me, in case I'm misunderstanding but - don't you  
> have to build a through-zero VCO, if you wish to do TRUE FM  
> synthesis??

I don't care about the mathematics of rotating vectors.

Is the sound improvement that dramatic to be worth the added cost for  
a regular audio VCO?

I know it is good for frequency shifters and LFOs. Proved that to  
myself.

I can't hear any significant difference between thru-zero and not  
thru-zero FM. It just sounds like FM to me.
Virtually every modulation process produces sidebands. AM, Ring Mod, FM

I mean, so what if the sidebands are 6 dB louder or whatever, why is  
this a big deal?

Are the sounds so much more musically significant or what?

Am I missing something? Or is this just chasing a theoretical ghost  
down a money hole?


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Fri Jan 13 09:43:15 2006
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:43:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Adding mono mode on Juno-6
In-Reply-To: <002801c6180a$31777610$65abbc44@cyberup0n1qn6z>
References: <20060112201228.93375.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> <002801c6180a$31777610$65abbc44@cyberup0n1qn6z>
Message-ID: <43C76823.6030003@xs4all.nl>

Hi Travis, all,
> but it sounds like ass. So the "oscillators" are purely digital? That

I would not say they are purely digital.

In the Juno 6/60, each oscillator uses a programmable counter to make
pulses that reset a sawtooth ramp. The steepness of the ramp is voltage
controlled using a single antilog amplifier that is multiplexed to each
oscillator. The antilog amplifier does not have to be very precise;
deviations only result in a slight amplitude error since the frequency
is determined digitally.

This way you get a real, clean sawtooth which IMO sounds much better
than a stairstepped one. It also makes proper (non-quantized) PWM possible.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,
Simon Brouwer.

| nl.openoffice.org | www.opentaal.org |


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri Jan 13 14:10:49 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:10:49 +0000
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] RoHS
In-Reply-To: <004d01c6181a$69870330$fb01010a@superman>
References: <004d01c6181a$69870330$fb01010a@superman>
Message-ID: <43C7A6D9.7010806@burnit.co.uk>

And look on the bright side, now you'll be able to power your expensive 
studio microphones in your car without having a separate DC-DC converter 
for the phantom power ...

Benjamin Riggs wrote:

> sorry harry,
>  
> the shift to the 48v is definitly cause of increasing power 
> requirements and cable size, don't mean bigger battery though. all the 
> power the battery really has to provide is to start the car, the 
> alternator provides the power for the rest. cars these days have much 
> larger alternators than they did 30 years ago, but batteries seem to 
> be actually getting smaller.
>  
> ben.
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     *From:* Harry Bissell Jr [mailto:harrybissell at prodigy.net]
>     *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:36 PM
>     *To:* Benjamin Riggs; 'Roy J. Tellason'; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>     *Subject:* RE: SV: Re: [sdiy] RoHS
>
>     Bzzzt
>
>     wrong answer. It will require a BIGGER battery. The increase in the
>     electronic content has driven the POWER requirements up, so that
>     the existing 12V systme can't deliver the power without using 4/0
>     cables.  They need higher voltages, and maybe slightly reduced..
>     current. Its not equal.
>
>     MORE POWER !!!
>
>     H^) harry
>
>     */Benjamin Riggs <ben.r at iinet.net.au>/* wrote:
>
>         Well, it'll require a battery with more cells, but it will
>         have the same
>         power requirement (higher voltage but less current, that's why
>         they are
>         doing it), plate surface area will be approximately the same
>         so I doubt they
>         will require more lead.
>
>         Although 4x number of cells means 4x the chance of a cell
>         failing thus much
>         shorter life.
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>         [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Roy J.
>         Tellason
>         Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:12 AM
>         To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>         Subject: Re: SV: Re: [sdiy] RoHS
>
>         Car batteries. The materials of which are approaching 100%
>         recycled as it
>         is.
>         And they're talking about switching away from 12V to a 42V (?)
>         system?
>         That's going to need a lot more battery for each car...
>
>         -- 
>         Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting
>         -- and ablest
>         -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
>         be killed but
>         can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
>         -
>         Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled
>         by lies.
>         --James
>         M Dakin
>
>


From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 17:24:05 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:24:05 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] WP LM3900 VCF
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601130811v5eec49c0g44d7e1fe5f90001e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050228231307.87114.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <044a01c51dfc$83cf6b60$9055f442@positronium>
	 <be546e560601130811v5eec49c0g44d7e1fe5f90001e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87441170601130824t10a78616rbf2d9d98c0359990@mail.gmail.com>

Check the schematics for the old PAIA Gnome. A fun effects synth / sound
box, and the whole thing was built around a single 3900.


Tim (getter older and more gnome-like everyday) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


On 1/13/06, Johannes ?berg <johannes.oberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bringing up another old thread - what happened? And what about the 3900
> and norton amps in general? What are they really good for?
>
> I'm also considering the WP20 circuitry since it looks kinda "punk" :-)
> And I happen to have a bunch of LM3900's that I have no idea what to use
> for.
>
> /J
>
> On 3/1/05, anthony <aankrom at bluemarble.net> wrote:
> >
> > So I'm in the middle of building an effects synth from 2 XR2206's. I
> > came up
> > with a good VCO set-up on my own (even a mode where they're both used as
> > a
> > 100kHz beat oscillator).
> >
> > For the rest of it there were too many good ideas for me to easilly pick
> > the
> > circuits I wanted to use. But I decided on Ray Wilson's sound lab. (It's
> > a
> > really cool design. I may end up making another one for my daughter.)
> >
> > But after I decided this I looked at the older WP20 and I thought 'hey I
> >
> > have an LM3900...' So I could make the VCF, VCA and AR eg with one chip!
> > (Er
> > maybe there's a 555 in there too, but still...) This seemed cool to me.
> > Anyone think of a good reason not to? Or rather what is it about the
> > Norton
> > amp that makes it special? Or /is/ it special? It almost seems like a
> > backwards OTA...
> >
>
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From johannes.oberg at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 19:30:37 2006
From: johannes.oberg at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Johannes_=D6berg?=)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 19:30:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] WP LM3900 VCF
In-Reply-To: <23951500.1137174259016.JavaMail.www@wwinf3101>
References: <23951500.1137174259016.JavaMail.www@wwinf3101>
Message-ID: <be546e560601131030k2c641018gb3816ceef5d0eb0d@mail.gmail.com>

I've tried getting my head around the datasheet for some time, but with no
luck... When you say master class, is that as in "fore thou art truly a
master when thou understandeth ye 4780" ?

On 1/13/06, Steve Ridley <spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> The LM3900 is a strange device, very different to ordinary opamps.  You
> could download
> aplication note AN-72.pdf from the National Semiconductor site if you want
> to learn a bit
> more, but if you're used to conventional opamps, they turn your brain
> upside down at first.
> Also, search out old Serge and PAiA (especially PAiA 4700 series)
> schematics.  The 4780
> sequencer is an LM3900 master class...
> Steve
>
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From rtellason at blazenet.net  Fri Jan 13 22:02:43 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:02:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] a couple of comments...
Message-ID: <200601131602.43641.rtellason@blazenet.net>

First,  I had one email in today's batch that was just HTML.  Not one with an 
HTML part _and_ a text part (though I do think that those are a waste of both 
download time and HD space here as I don't think that HTML has any place in 
email anyhow),  but one with just HTML and nothing else.

When I see these I delete them,  immediately.

If you want your posts read,  send 'em in text,  which is what email is 
supposed to use,  AOL and other idiots promoting HTML to the contrary.

Second,  PLEASE don't CC me offlist with a copy of your reply to some thread 
that I just happened to post in just because the software is set up that way,  
or "reply to all" is easier,  or whatever the heck the reason is.  I read the 
list,  I get a copy of it there,  and there's no reason to clutter up my 
inbox (and make me waste the time downloading) another copy.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan 13 23:55:27 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:55:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] WP LM3900 VCF
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601131419w666d3933kaac6efa0360bfe2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com>

The OTA could also be called a "Voltage Controlled Current Source"...
  
  the output is a current, and is the product of the differential input current
  and a bias or control current.
  
  The Norton could be called a "Current Controlled Voltage Source"
  the output is a voltage controlled by the differential input current.
  
  The Norton 'has' some applications that could be replaced by standard
  opamps... most amplifier apps included. These usually have the inputs
  driven by high value resistors (>1M) which essentially make the  input currents subject to the voltage applied to the resistors.
  
  Other apps... especially the ARP four pole filter using the LM3900... are
  using the unique properties of the Norton amp by driving the inputs with
  a current source.  These cannot be duplicated with standard opamps (without
  great complexity).
  
  The Norton is an odd duck. Misunderstood in its infancy, it got a reputation
  (not wholely undererved) for being a "piece of sh!t"  (opinions of many respected
  engineers).  Other designers such as Serge T.  (YOU spell his last name then...)
  excelled with the part.
  
  H^) harry

Johannes ?berg <johannes.oberg at gmail.com> wrote:Thanks!  However, my problem is not finding datasheets, I read the 3900  datasheet before my first post in the thread. (well, 'looked at' is the  more accurate verb considering I didn't really understand the  schematics...)
  
The problem is that I don't understand electronics very well, and I  can't really "get a feeling" for Norton amps. While I could just about  tell an emperor Norton amp from a hole in the ground, I would have no  clue if I would try to replace a normal opamp with a norton in a  circuit, something datasheets talks about.  

I was hoping that perhaps somebody had some sort of simple  explaination or some metaphore or something, that would make me "get  it". Datasheet language isn't very pedagogic (and why should it be?). I  have found excellent tutorials online on many sdiy subjects, but I  haven't found any about Norton amps.  

Btw, is the Norton amp a sort of reversed OTA? And that is its use in VC stuff?

/J

On 1/13/06, R?nnberg Niklas <  nikro at itn.liu.se> wrote:  I'm not sure what datasheet you want... but here are some
http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=LM3  
  http://www.synthdiy.com/show/showproduct.asp?show=1219
Hope this will help!
Regards
/Niklas

    

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From rtellason at blazenet.net  Sat Jan 14 00:33:09 2006
From: rtellason at blazenet.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:33:09 -0500
Subject: HF parts (was: Re: [sdiy] Anyone need any transistors? I got lots and lots...)
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601131442l56f6a44eie67e38c888771b0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be546e560601131442l56f6a44eie67e38c888771b0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200601131833.09640.rtellason@blazenet.net>

On Friday 13 January 2006 05:42 pm, Johannes ?berg wrote:
> Since I'm already on a bringing-up-old-threads spree...
>
> What was the conclusion here? If I find some HF transistors cheaply, can I
> use these as general purpose transistors (assuming voltage and current
> rating fits of course)? Or is the higher bandwith a problem, perhaps with
> selfoscillations or poor low end or something?
>
> /J

It seems to be the normal progression of things for more recent part numbers 
to have somewhat higher bandwidth (transition frequency or whatever that 
particular datasheet is calling it) than earlier parts,  and if that's the 
sort of part you're talking about I wouldn't expect any problems.  If,  OTOH,  
you're talking about stuff that's made for extremely wide bandwidth,  VHF,  
UHF,  and beyond,  I wouldn't expect them to work nearly as well.  The wide 
bandwidth typically also means that other parameters are going to be 
different,  the one I've noticed the most being significantly lower breakdown 
voltages.  Also wider spreads of beta.

> On 12/25/05, Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:
> > Quick question: If something's tagged as "RF" "UHF" "VHF" etc... is there
> > any reason I couldn't use it for audio (although it might be overkill?)

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat Jan 14 03:08:27 2006
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 03:08:27 +0100
Subject: HF parts (was: Re: [sdiy] Anyone need any transistors? I got
 lots and lots...)
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601131555u2d0349a5q1deb8a609435da9f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be546e560601131442l56f6a44eie67e38c888771b0b@mail.gmail.com>	 <200601131833.09640.rtellason@blazenet.net>	 <be546e560601131548s63817fe2j725756b5784c47cf@mail.gmail.com> <be546e560601131555u2d0349a5q1deb8a609435da9f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C85D1B.3040005@uni-bonn.de>

Hi Johannes,

Johannes ?berg wrote:
> Damn, I'm a such a fool. I just realized I've been reading the wrong
> parameter. An emitter-base breakdown voltage of 4.0 V means it's a no-no,
> right? Because that would mean I could only feed it input signals of less
> than +-2V before biasing?

That is a *reverse* breakdown voltage. You won't bring it much more in 
forward direction than 0.7V...

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Jan 14 03:10:42 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:10:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] WP LM3900 VCF
References: <23951500.1137174259016.JavaMail.www@wwinf3101>
		 <be546e560601131030k2c641018gb3816ceef5d0eb0d@mail.gmail.com>
		 <82BEDACF1CE44E45AB82F167BD8C07D10118C169@merlin.epost.itn.liu.se>
		 <be546e560601131419w666d3933kaac6efa0360bfe2d@mail.gmail.com> <be546e560601131433p4739a5b2r235f17e54a8f2c6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C85DA2.5860B560@prodigy.net>

Hi Johannes

simply put... most VCO are linear response. The expo control is almost
always an add on.  It might even be a 'tack on' if the original design
is good enough. (usually you need a pretty linear VCO to use it
sucessfully
with an expo converter).

I can't think offhand... of a VCO that is inherently an 'expo' design.
(list ??? :^)

Most VCO designs are really a CCO (current controlled oscillator) with a
voltage to current converter 'tacked on' as well...

The WP design is for sure a true VCO, and probably would not expo
easily. There
are better ones to start with. It is cheap and dirty, and quite useful
as it is.

H^) harry

Johannes ?berg wrote:
> 
> Btw, how do you "see" if a VCO or something has linear or log vc? Does
> the Gnome VCO have it? How about the WP-20 VCO? It seems that
> simple/few-parts VCO's tend to have linear control. Is log control in
> fact always a 'tack-on'? (as in: you could remove some components from
> every log vco and get a lin vco)
> 
> /J


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Jan 14 03:20:03 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:20:03 -0500
Subject: HF parts (was: Re: [sdiy] Anyone need any transistors? I got lots
 and lots...)
References: <be546e560601131442l56f6a44eie67e38c888771b0b@mail.gmail.com>
		 <200601131833.09640.rtellason@blazenet.net>
		 <be546e560601131548s63817fe2j725756b5784c47cf@mail.gmail.com> <be546e560601131555u2d0349a5q1deb8a609435da9f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C85FD3.7C44BCE7@prodigy.net>

It means that the base cannot be more than 4V MORE negative than the
emitter (assuming NPN).  The base-emitter junction will reverse
breakdown betond this point.

Usually the base will never be more than .7V more positive than the
enitter...
or it will turn ON :^P

Some transistors will be badly damaged by the E-B breakdown... some
degraded...
some don't really care much if the current is limited to some low value.
We wouldn't have most common white noise generators without reverse
breakdown

H^) harry


From scottnoanh at peoplepc.com  Sat Jan 14 07:58:48 2006
From: scottnoanh at peoplepc.com (scottnoanh at peoplepc.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 00:58:48 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Tom Henry's Nuts and Volts Article
Message-ID: <001901c618d7$fbb646e0$4402f504@default>

I noticed in the 'Resources' section of Tom's article a few list members
websites are mentioned:

Ian Fritz (VCO)
Charlie Lamm (ADSR)
Rene Schmitz (VCF)
Yves Usson (ADSR)
Ray Wilson (VCO, VCF)

And suppliers Blacet Research and Synthesis Technology.

Now I know why they call it NUTS and Volts (ducks).

Cheers,
Scott



From louis at dompselaar.org  Sat Jan 14 09:35:16 2006
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:35:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] x0x box VCA is kaput
In-Reply-To: <78f89520601132018l2b618333i2690ddbc2ed0d0e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be546e560601121027r6fc21b6dr4f95769c4bf01229@mail.gmail.com>	 <200601121836.k0CIabG9008245@dropmix> <78f89520601132018l2b618333i2690ddbc2ed0d0e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C8B7C4.3030000@dompselaar.org>

BA6110 is available from Vintage Planet:
http://www.vintageplanet.nl/index.html

Quoting Jeff Farr  [01/14/06 05:18]:
> electronix has the 536's.  If they're out I'll send you a couple.   If
> you can find the 6110 lemme know where..
> 
> On 1/12/06, Altitude <altitude at optrand.com> wrote:
> 
>>As the title states, my ba662a is done.  Looking for:
>>
>>2 x 2SC536F
>>1 x BA6110
>>
>>If anyone has any to sell, I will be eternally in your debt
>>


From Stromeko at Compuserve.DE  Sat Jan 14 09:40:07 2006
From: Stromeko at Compuserve.DE (ASSI)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:40:07 +0100
Subject: HF parts (was: Re: [sdiy] Anyone need any transistors? I got lots and lots...)
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601131442l56f6a44eie67e38c888771b0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be546e560601131442l56f6a44eie67e38c888771b0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200601140940.07544.Stromeko@Compuserve.DE>

On Freitag, 13. Januar 2006 23:42, Johannes ?berg wrote:
> If I find some HF transistors cheaply,
> can I use these as general purpose transistors (assuming voltage and
> current rating fits of course)?

Assuming you talk about bipolar transistors: the HF parts will generally 
have lower breakdown voltages, a more "peakey" hfe vs. Ic curve and 
take a lot less abuse beyond their specified operating conditions than 
general purpose parts of the same vintage. But if the parameters are OK 
for your circuit, then they should work just as well.

> Or is the higher bandwith a problem, 
> perhaps with selfoscillations or poor low end or something?

That can happen, in particular the supply and bias networks should 
perhaps be modified to shunt out HF much better (for instance where it 
might have been sort of OK to block a voltage with just a small 
electrolytic you should now really add a ceramic cap in parallel).


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk sonic heaven]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf microQ V2.22R2:
http://Stromeko.Synth.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat Jan 14 10:13:59 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:13:59 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] WP LM3900 VCF
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005701c618ea$dcca57e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

It's a wonderful chip for low voltage industrial applications
(before there were cheap micros, and when digital designers
used analog). I honest believe that it would have taken over the 
world, if it didn't have such a dumb pinout. Really.

paul perry Melbourne Australia
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Harry Bissell Jr 
  The Norton is an odd duck. Misunderstood in i! ts infancy, it got a reputation
  (not wholely undererved) for being a "piece of sh!t"  (opinions of many respected
  engineers).  Other designers such as Serge T.  excelled with the part.
-------------- next part --------------
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From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat Jan 14 11:53:50 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 11:53:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Envelopes and VCA responses
References: <a6fac3a00601140110w3e6adea7vb10c5c28c4e44f69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004101c618f8$d067d6e0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

No. Draw the courves of an expo EG on paper, and you'll see
the difference immediately.

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "megaohm" <megaohm1 at gmail.com>
To: "synth-diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:10 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Envelopes and VCA responses


Is the following statement true:

exp EG + lin VCA = lin EG + exp VCA

                    ?






peng


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan 14 13:40:32 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:40:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] x0x box VCA is kaput
In-Reply-To: <43C8B7C4.3030000@dompselaar.org>
References: <be546e560601121027r6fc21b6dr4f95769c4bf01229@mail.gmail.com>	 <200601121836.k0CIabG9008245@dropmix> <78f89520601132018l2b618333i2690ddbc2ed0d0e8@mail.gmail.com> <43C8B7C4.3030000@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <43C8F140.4000200@burnit.co.uk>

And from me:
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/index.php?page=forsale#ba6110


Louis van Dompselaar wrote:

> BA6110 is available from Vintage Planet:
> http://www.vintageplanet.nl/index.html
>
> Quoting Jeff Farr  [01/14/06 05:18]:
>
>> electronix has the 536's.  If they're out I'll send you a couple.   If
>> you can find the 6110 lemme know where..
>>
>> On 1/12/06, Altitude <altitude at optrand.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As the title states, my ba662a is done.  Looking for:
>>>
>>> 2 x 2SC536F
>>> 1 x BA6110
>>>
>>> If anyone has any to sell, I will be eternally in your debt
>>>
>
>


From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sat Jan 14 13:40:47 2006
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:40:47 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero
	oscillator...
In-Reply-To: <4C900780-CCEE-4EAB-B839-DAF763970D6F@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <BFEEA1CE.4F3D%davekendall@ntlworld.com>

>> i'm also looking at the thru-zero VCO... pretty complex project,
>> but i'll never be buying one from cyndustries... any of you
>> oldtimers ever build one of these beasts?

I found this. Doesn't look too complicated......

<http://www.edn.com/article/CA341451.html>

Cheers,

Dave


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat Jan 14 14:35:52 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:35:52 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] WP LM3900 VCF
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <005701c618ea$dcca57e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <004b01c618f9$b8258db0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <003501c6190f$704aec40$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

It's a swindle, really!
I once spent ages tryng to see how a Norton amp 
could be made into a filter <blush>
The LM3900 is just used as a current-voltage converter, it's 
matched pairs of 390s's that is doing the actual VCF
so far as I can see, looking at this schematic
(thanks again to Don Tillman)
http://www.till.com/arptech/pdf/4072.pdf

paul perry (up past his bedtime in Melbourne Australia)


From synth1 at airmail.net  Sat Jan 14 14:54:40 2006
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 07:54:40 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Tom Henry's Nuts and Volts Article
References: <001901c618d7$fbb646e0$4402f504@default>
Message-ID: <009101c61912$10eb9c60$0201a8c0@bilbo>

That was very kind of him to mention me. In fact, MOTM was 'officially 
announced' by me buying a 1-time ad in Nuts and Volts for like $30 :)

Paul S.


From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat Jan 14 15:05:36 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:05:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] WP LM3900 VCF
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <005701c618ea$dcca57e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <004b01c618f9$b8258db0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <003501c6190f$704aec40$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <006001c61913$9af1d1d0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

Look at it the other way round:

The LM3900 is a pnp input opamp, only that the
input transistor pair is missing. 8-)

So you have to add it externally - at the benefit of full freedom
over the input transistors' tail current.

Now look at the typical OTA + cap + buffer filter stage.
It's just an ordinary opamp with phase compensation cap,
and with a variable bias current for its input pair.

In fact, there has been an integrated quad opamp with
variable biasing and internal compensation, the LM346,
which has been used as a 4pole "OTA" VCF in Farfisa
synthesizers.

It's all the same thing, really. (Except that the 346's
bias current must be soooo small that you don't really
get low cutoff frequencies with good performance.)

JH.


> It's a swindle, really!
> I once spent ages tryng to see how a Norton amp 
> could be made into a filter <blush>
> The LM3900 is just used as a current-voltage converter, it's 
> matched pairs of 390s's that is doing the actual VCF
> so far as I can see, looking at this schematic
> (thanks again to Don Tillman)
> http://www.till.com/arptech/pdf/4072.pdf
> 
> paul perry (up past his bedtime in Melbourne Australia)
> 


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 14 16:56:27 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:56:27 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] WP LM3900 VCF
In-Reply-To: <006001c61913$9af1d1d0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com>
 <005701c618ea$dcca57e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
 <004b01c618f9$b8258db0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
 <003501c6190f$704aec40$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
 <006001c61913$9af1d1d0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060114085506.034340e0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 07:05 AM 1/14/06, JH. wrote:


>In fact, there has been an integrated quad opamp with
>variable biasing and internal compensation, the LM346,
>which has been used as a 4pole "OTA" VCF in Farfisa
>synthesizers.

Thanks for bringing that up.  I see that it is still in production from 
several manufacturers. Costs $.45 or so at Digikey.

   Ian 


From grichter at asapnet.net  Sat Jan 14 17:11:23 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 10:11:23 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero oscillator...
In-Reply-To: <BFEEA1CE.4F3D%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <BFEEA1CE.4F3D%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <35B5C9EB-50A1-43A1-A710-3F367BEE324C@asapnet.net>

Looks like two parallel oscillators, one turns on for positive CV,  
one turns on for negative CV.

On Jan 14, 2006, at 6:40 AM, Dave Kendall wrote:

>>> i'm also looking at the thru-zero VCO... pretty complex project,
>>> but i'll never be buying one from cyndustries... any of you
>>> oldtimers ever build one of these beasts?
>
> I found this. Doesn't look too complicated......
>
> <http://www.edn.com/article/CA341451.html>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave


From grichter at asapnet.net  Sat Jan 14 17:17:45 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 10:17:45 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] WP LM3900 VCF
In-Reply-To: <003501c6190f$704aec40$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <005701c618ea$dcca57e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <004b01c618f9$b8258db0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <003501c6190f$704aec40$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <B37E7E48-0FF4-4241-9B8B-14C546D1D748@asapnet.net>

That is a very clever design.

There is a application note that shows using the dual PNPs to make a  
voltage input op-amp.
Modulating the emitter currents acts like a VCA into an integrator.
Reminds me of the Serge designs using that 4 transistor gain cell.

On Jan 14, 2006, at 7:35 AM, Paul Perry wrote:

> It's a swindle, really!
> I once spent ages tryng to see how a Norton amp
> could be made into a filter <blush>
> The LM3900 is just used as a current-voltage converter, it's
> matched pairs of 390s's that is doing the actual VCF
> so far as I can see, looking at this schematic
> (thanks again to Don Tillman)
> http://www.till.com/arptech/pdf/4072.pdf
>
> paul perry (up past his bedtime in Melbourne Australia)


From grichter at asapnet.net  Sat Jan 14 17:33:59 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 10:33:59 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero oscillator...
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601140816t1b20efadv8cab0fc1c06ec3e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200601121622.k0CGMwp4002392@mmm1113.verio-web.com> <4C900780-CCEE-4EAB-B839-DAF763970D6F@asapnet.net> <b6b288a70601122229n131ae6d5o9a702b91de2d87b5@mail.gmail.com> <AD6C262C-BEF6-47BA-A1B2-601DB56C7A97@asapnet.net> <be546e560601140816t1b20efadv8cab0fc1c06ec3e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FC8A60-D257-4878-BD7F-F81EC3D9A34A@asapnet.net>

>
> If I understand you application correctly:
> While they might all "sound DXish", you will in effect be modulating
> with a half- och fullwave rectified modulator, at least for small
> modulation indexes. That makes alot of the classic FM sounds
> impossible. Yes, you get sidebands, but much more harsch sounding.
> Sorry, I don't know the maths behind this. But I've noticed you can
> never make it sound as smooth and controlled with rectified modulator
> waves as with the others.
>

I understand your point.

But the design of the linear FM inputs on classic VCOs prevents them  
from reaching the zero point.
So they are not rectifying.

That is if you have the 1.5M to 15 volts and a 560K for linear FM.  
The linear current doesn't shut off completely.
According to Bernie Hutchins.

They are constrained to keeping the modulation index below reversing  
the phase vector.

What I don't understand is how allowing reversing of the phase vector  
affects the audio tone.
And if it is significant enough to be worth the cost of a $4.00 MAX365.

Another way to do it is in the wavetable itself. By adding a  
modulation vector to the phase vector with rollover.
Since I am thinking of an n dimensional wave terrain, that could be  
just another wavetable input.


From rutgervlek at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 14 19:03:02 2006
From: rutgervlek at hotmail.com (Rutger Vlek)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:03:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIY Synthesizer 'Ocean' finished!
In-Reply-To: <43AA90D0.8050008@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <BAY109-F10126CBBEA6327CF22398BD8190@phx.gbl>

Hello everyone,

with help from some of you guys I finally finished my 'Ocean' synthesizer.

I've kept a diary and made lots of pictures while I built it. An mp3 with 
demo sounds is also online on:

http://www.orpheo.nl/dutch/index.php?mainframe=rsynthsite.php

Many thanks for everyone who helped!

Greetings,

Rutger



From xamboldt at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 14 19:21:42 2006
From: xamboldt at earthlink.net (xamboldt)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:21:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] White LED Source
In-Reply-To: <BAY109-F10126CBBEA6327CF22398BD8190@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY109-F10126CBBEA6327CF22398BD8190@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E227C179-123B-4056-AA0E-D80B733230CF@earthlink.net>

Anyone know a good source for relatively cheap white LEDs? The best I  
found was $0.20 for 3mm here:
http://www.rjmods.com/product_info.php?products_id=90

But this seems so much cheaper than every place else (around $1.00/ 
each for the cheapest), it seems kind of fishy. Has anyone heard of  
rjmods before?

Thanks,
Chris


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan 14 20:30:56 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:30:56 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Triggering problems with VC ADSR
In-Reply-To: <BFEEF5B4.4F50%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <BFEEF5B4.4F50%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <43C95170.6050500@burnit.co.uk>

Dave Kendall wrote:

>Hi All.
>
>I'm trying to modify an EFM VC RADSR so that it accepts a re-trigger. Is
>anyone familiar with this design?
>It's a CMOS4052 based design. Pin 9 of the 4052 follows the gate signal, and
>a brief high pulse at pin 10 resets it back to the start again. However the
>trigger pulse from my Paia Midi2CV8 (5ms, 0 to +10V) is not acting in the
>same way as the circuit's internal re-set.
>Looking on the scope, the internally generated reset pulse looks to be
>longer than that generated internally.
>
>Anyone know a circuit that can increase the length of a short pulse?
>
>  
>
You can do with a 40106 + diode + cap + resistor ..
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/mmlogic.html

Or you could use an opamp (as a comparator) instead of the 2x 40106 gates.

Seb



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 14 21:58:17 2006
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:58:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] DIY resonator? liek Rhythm and Sound/ Basic Channel guys
In-Reply-To: <fc3b811d0601141245p30f7c664y9da6a70a8932c02c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fc3b811d0601141245p30f7c664y9da6a70a8932c02c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C965E9.4020000@earthlink.net>

korg PS-3100 resonators?




Danjel van Tijn wrote:
> I have heard that RHythm and SOund/Basic Chanel from Germany use 
> resonators as part of their sound for their gritty dub stuff. Putting 
> Prohet VS and most likely space echoes into them to get ominous stabs 
> and drones.
> 
> Anyone have agood set of plans for building a resonator?
> 
> thanks,
>      Danjel


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan 14 23:29:59 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:29:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
Message-ID: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk>

Hi,

I'm working on a full wave rectifier (as the front end of a noise gate 
level detector), but I'm having trouble finding a simple circuit that 
works well.  I'd like it to be done with max 2 opamps plus a few extra 
components.  Anyone know of a suitable circuit that will work over a 
wide signal range (i.e. from less than a diode drop up to ~10Vptp)?

The nearest I have so far is this:
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/full_wave_rectifier.gif
(it intentionally has a gain of 2, but this isn't absolutely necessary)

But the problem with this is the circuit itself tends to slightly 
positively bias the input signal resulting in the positive halves of the 
wave being slightly higher than the negative halves.  This effect is 
dependent on the impedance of the driving circuit - if I slap an opamp 
voltage follower on the input the problem goes away .. but I don't 
really want to use another opamp if I can help it.

Any ideas how to fix this circuit, or is there another circuit that will 
do what I want?

Seb



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan 14 23:47:38 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:47:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
In-Reply-To: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43C97F8A.90308@burnit.co.uk>

Ok, since I posted this it has occured to me to add a potential divider 
from +15V to the input to -15V to pull the bias towards 0V, but I'm 
finding I have to use as low as 5K resistors to even get close (and 3mA 
from each supply rail seems a lot of current to burn just doing this).

Still looking for a better way ..


Seb Francis wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm working on a full wave rectifier (as the front end of a noise gate 
> level detector), but I'm having trouble finding a simple circuit that 
> works well.  I'd like it to be done with max 2 opamps plus a few extra 
> components.  Anyone know of a suitable circuit that will work over a 
> wide signal range (i.e. from less than a diode drop up to ~10Vptp)?
>
> The nearest I have so far is this:
> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/full_wave_rectifier.gif
> (it intentionally has a gain of 2, but this isn't absolutely necessary)
>
> But the problem with this is the circuit itself tends to slightly 
> positively bias the input signal resulting in the positive halves of 
> the wave being slightly higher than the negative halves.  This effect 
> is dependent on the impedance of the driving circuit - if I slap an 
> opamp voltage follower on the input the problem goes away .. but I 
> don't really want to use another opamp if I can help it.
>
> Any ideas how to fix this circuit, or is there another circuit that 
> will do what I want?
>
> Seb
>
>
>
>


From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Jan 15 00:08:08 2006
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:08:08 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
In-Reply-To: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c6195f$626bd760$ac134454@stingo>

Hi Seb,
	There are several ways to do what you want: this was linked from
www.epanorama.net, and looks like one of the standard ways to do it:

http://www.play-hookey.com/analog/full-wave_rectifier.html

I'm sure googling on 'full wave rectifier' and op amp will probably lead to
loads of suggestions.

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Seb Francis
> Sent: 14 January 2006 22:30
> To: Synth DIY
> Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm working on a full wave rectifier (as the front end of a 
> noise gate 
> level detector), but I'm having trouble finding a simple circuit that 
> works well.  I'd like it to be done with max 2 opamps plus a 
> few extra 
> components.  Anyone know of a suitable circuit that will work over a 
> wide signal range (i.e. from less than a diode drop up to ~10Vptp)?
> 
> The nearest I have so far is this: 
> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/full_wave_rectifier.gif
> (it intentionally has a gain of 2, but this isn't absolutely 
> necessary)
> 
> But the problem with this is the circuit itself tends to slightly 
> positively bias the input signal resulting in the positive 
> halves of the 
> wave being slightly higher than the negative halves.  This effect is 
> dependent on the impedance of the driving circuit - if I slap 
> an opamp 
> voltage follower on the input the problem goes away .. but I don't 
> really want to use another opamp if I can help it.
> 
> Any ideas how to fix this circuit, or is there another 
> circuit that will 
> do what I want?
> 
> Seb
> 
> 
> 
> 




From scott at tellun.com  Sun Jan 15 00:25:46 2006
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:25:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
In-Reply-To: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06230900bfef38bd1759@[192.168.1.102]>

>I'm working on a full wave rectifier (as the front end of a noise 
>gate level detector), but I'm having trouble finding a simple 
>circuit that works well.

Grab a copy of Jung's Op-Amp Cookbook, there are about a dozen 
variations of FWRs in there.


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan 15 00:57:35 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:57:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
References: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43C98FEE.6AC07156@prodigy.net>

GACK thats an awful design.

The best way if you want to get averaging as well, is with the
circuit suggested from PlayHookey.com.  This is a half-wave and
summing amp. Because the second amp is an inverting summer, you can
use a cap in the feedback to average.

I'd suggest that for a noise gate level detector, you should be looking
for a peak detecting circuit... NOT a full wave rectifier. I'd use
an absolute value circuit, followed by a peak detector if you want the
ultimate in performance.  If not, probably a single (ie half-wave)
peak detector is good enough.

Seb Francis wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm working on a full wave rectifier (as the front end of a noise gate
> level detector), but I'm having trouble finding a simple circuit that
> works well.  I'd like it to be done with max 2 opamps plus a few extra
> components.  Anyone know of a suitable circuit that will work over a
> wide signal range (i.e. from less than a diode drop up to ~10Vptp)?
> 
> The nearest I have so far is this:
> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/full_wave_rectifier.gif
> (it intentionally has a gain of 2, but this isn't absolutely necessary)
> 
> But the problem with this is the circuit itself tends to slightly
> positively bias the input signal resulting in the positive halves of the
> wave being slightly higher than the negative halves.  This effect is
> dependent on the impedance of the driving circuit - if I slap an opamp
> voltage follower on the input the problem goes away .. but I don't
> really want to use another opamp if I can help it.
> 
> Any ideas how to fix this circuit, or is there another circuit that will
> do what I want?
> 
> Seb


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun Jan 15 01:05:02 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 11:05:02 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
References: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk> <p06230900bfef38bd1759@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <009601c61967$55274280$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

For the application you have in mind, 
I doubt that you need all that much precision.
Also, you could probably reduce the 
influence of source impedance by rescaling
all the resistors which would increase the input impedance of 
the non-inverting input.

but, by the time you have filtered the output, you won't
see the assymetry in the output!

paul perry Melbourne Australia

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Juskiw" 
> >I'm working on a full wave rectifier (as the front end of a noise 
> >gate level detector), 


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan 15 01:12:03 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:12:03 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero BODE???
References: <200601142345.k0ENjMG9028275@dropmix>
Message-ID: <43C99353.72B637B1@prodigy.net>

I see you like your projects BIG...

Yes, you need a thru-zero VCO, and some phase splitting filters
(that are not simple) and a couple of good multipliers.

I believe everything can be found at Jurgen Haible's site.

He likes his projects BIG, too...   :^P

H^) harry  (who likes his projects BIG too... but does not need freq
shifting
THAT bad... :^)

phil macnutt wrote:
> 
> Howdy all,
> I'm rather interested in somehow figuring out a way to build a Bode/Moog
> frequency shifter clone of some sort, but I don't understand the guts of how
> it works.  Is the "thru zero VCO" the basis for this famous module?  Would
> anybody care to comment on the possibility of building one?  I'm not looking
> for an exact clone, but something that has the same basic functionality.
> 
> Ten minutes of googling turns up the following info:
> 
> 1.      Encore says they sell one for $389 USD, but 1)an email sent bounced,
> and 2)I'd much rather build one at least from a kit/blank PCB
> 
> 2.      On Magnus' website there are links to the Moog schematics, but the
> links are dead.
> 
> 3.      Two folks I found on the web have built their own (names withheld
> since I don't personally know them), but no PCBS available.
> 
> 4.      Analogue Systems sells one for about $1,400 (USD)
> 
> For me, I guess the ultimate goal here is to somehow wind up with a PCB
> layout and a list of components that are readily available.
> 
> So, any help or advice would be most appreciated.
> 
> Best regards,
> Phil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dave Kendall
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:41 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero
> oscillator...
> 
> >> i'm also looking at the thru-zero VCO... pretty complex project,
> >> but i'll never be buying one from cyndustries... any of you
> >> oldtimers ever build one of these beasts?
> 
> I found this. Doesn't look too complicated......
> 
> <http://www.edn.com/article/CA341451.html>
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dave


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Jan 15 01:47:51 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:47:51 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
In-Reply-To: <43C98FEE.6AC07156@prodigy.net>
References: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk> <43C98FEE.6AC07156@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <43C99BB7.5050702@burnit.co.uk>

Thanks everyone for the replies.  My reply below..

harrybissell wrote:

>The best way if you want to get averaging as well, is with the
>circuit suggested from PlayHookey.com.  This is a half-wave and
>summing amp. Because the second amp is an inverting summer, you can
>use a cap in the feedback to average.
>
>  
>
Yes, I like the look of this.  I was just using a resistor/cap low pass 
filter to average, but neater to do it in the opamp feedback loop.

>I'd suggest that for a noise gate level detector, you should be looking
>for a peak detecting circuit... NOT a full wave rectifier. I'd use
>an absolute value circuit, followed by a peak detector if you want the
>ultimate in performance.  If not, probably a single (ie half-wave)
>peak detector is good enough.
>
>  
>
I wanted to use full-wave because sometimes analog synths can have 
waveforms that are a bit 'lopsided' so I wanted to make sure I'm looking 
at both halves of the waveform.  As Paul pointed out though precision in 
this application is not really critical.

So perhaps something like the full wave rectifier circuit from 
play-hookey.com, followed by a diode charging a cap (via the attack rate 
pot), with the release rate pot discharging the cap.  Is that what you 
mean by a peak detector .. diode->cap?

Seb



From guitaricon at comcast.net  Sun Jan 15 02:10:08 2006
From: guitaricon at comcast.net (jeff brown)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:10:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero BODE???
Message-ID: <001101c61970$6d8656f0$0202a8c0@jeff>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeff brown" <guitaricon at comcast.net>
To: "harrybissell" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero BODE???


> You can get PCBs for the dome filter sections (similar to Jurgen's, as 
> IIRC) from Ken Stone (special order). As for PCB's for the multipliers and 
> thru-zero VCO, you're on your own.
>
> I started down this route when Ken first issued the filter boards, but 
> wussed out and got the Encore unit from Tony.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "harrybissell" <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> To: "phil macnutt" <philmacnutt at mac.com>
> Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 7:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero BODE???
>
>
>>I see you like your projects BIG...
>>
>> Yes, you need a thru-zero VCO, and some phase splitting filters
>> (that are not simple) and a couple of good multipliers.
>>
>> I believe everything can be found at Jurgen Haible's site.
>>
>> He likes his projects BIG, too...   :^P
>>
>> H^) harry  (who likes his projects BIG too... but does not need freq
>> shifting
>> THAT bad... :^)
>>
>> phil macnutt wrote:
>>>
>>> Howdy all,
>>> I'm rather interested in somehow figuring out a way to build a Bode/Moog
>>> frequency shifter clone of some sort, but I don't understand the guts of 
>>> how
>>> it works.  Is the "thru zero VCO" the basis for this famous module? 
>>> Would
>>> anybody care to comment on the possibility of building one?  I'm not 
>>> looking
>>> for an exact clone, but something that has the same basic functionality.
>>>
>>> Ten minutes of googling turns up the following info:
>>>
>>> 1.      Encore says they sell one for $389 USD, but 1)an email sent 
>>> bounced,
>>> and 2)I'd much rather build one at least from a kit/blank PCB
>>>
>>> 2.      On Magnus' website there are links to the Moog schematics, but 
>>> the
>>> links are dead.
>>>
>>> 3.      Two folks I found on the web have built their own (names 
>>> withheld
>>> since I don't personally know them), but no PCBS available.
>>>
>>> 4.      Analogue Systems sells one for about $1,400 (USD)
>>>
>>> For me, I guess the ultimate goal here is to somehow wind up with a PCB
>>> layout and a list of components that are readily available.
>>>
>>> So, any help or advice would be most appreciated.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Phil
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dave Kendall
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:41 AM
>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero
>>> oscillator...
>>>
>>> >> i'm also looking at the thru-zero VCO... pretty complex project,
>>> >> but i'll never be buying one from cyndustries... any of you
>>> >> oldtimers ever build one of these beasts?
>>>
>>> I found this. Doesn't look too complicated......
>>>
>>> <http://www.edn.com/article/CA341451.html>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Dave
> 


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Jan 15 02:10:38 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:10:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
In-Reply-To: <43C99BB7.5050702@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk> <43C98FEE.6AC07156@prodigy.net> <43C99BB7.5050702@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43C9A10E.5030004@burnit.co.uk>

Seb Francis wrote:

>
> So perhaps something like the full wave rectifier circuit from 
> play-hookey.com, followed by a diode charging a cap (via the attack 
> rate pot), with the release rate pot discharging the cap.  Is that 
> what you mean by a peak detector .. diode->cap?
>
Sorry, not quite thinking straight, what I should have said was..

Full wave rectifier circuit from play-hookey.com, followed by a diode 
charging a cap, with the *hold* pot discharging the cap.  The attack and 
release pots will be post threshold comparator and will control the 
attack and release of the actual VCA CV.  (Did I mention it's not just a 
noise gate - it also has a MIDI trigger input for gating sounds - hence 
the desire to have an attack pot).

I'm also thinking the threshold comparator circuit may need to have a 
bit of hysteresis to avoid the gate chattering if there's ripple from 
the peak detector for very low frequencies at around the threshold level 
(e.g. the tail end of bass notes) .. I have to see if this will be 
necessary - maybe I can balance having a fast enough attack response 
with sufficient ripple rejection for low frequencies.  Or maybe just 
having some hold time will prevent this chattering.

Seb



From controlvoltage at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 03:08:52 2006
From: controlvoltage at gmail.com (Amos)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 03:08:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] White LED Source
In-Reply-To: <0B17EA32-4D73-414E-B2D5-0292F68ACCD6@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
References: <BAY109-F10126CBBEA6327CF22398BD8190@phx.gbl>
	 <E227C179-123B-4056-AA0E-D80B733230CF@earthlink.net>
	 <0B17EA32-4D73-414E-B2D5-0292F68ACCD6@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
Message-ID: <908a4c120601141808j654be6bau967add306b2b7614@mail.gmail.com>

Be careful with the Hong Kong sellers... many are probably reliable, but I
won & paid for a batch of Red/Blue bicolor LEDs from the seller "*
spectrumleds*<http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=spectrumleds&item=7574969754&iid=7574969754&frm=1883&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:SID>"
23 days ago and have had no communication and no LEDs so far... waiting for
a reply to my "contact this seller" attempt, but suspecting that the money
is gone and I will need to try again.  No point complaining to Baywatch, as
they don't care the tiniest bit about ripped-off buyers as long as they get
their cut of the take.
As always check feedback and seller's history... happy hunting

On 1/15/06, Colin Raffel <colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com> wrote:
>
> Check eBay.  There are lots of sellers from Hong Kong who sell white
> LEDs for cheaper, they just have fairly high shipping prices.
>
> Here are some for 19c apiece shipped, a tiny bit cheaper...
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-100-Mega-Bright-10000mcd-3MM-White-LED-Free-
> R_W0QQitemZ7580316357QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> Wrong size....
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-100x-Ultra-Bright-White-LEDs-5mm-
> dia_W0QQitemZ7579578236QQcategoryZ66954QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> Give it a try.
>
> -Colin
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2006, at 1:21 PM, xamboldt wrote:
>
> > Anyone know a good source for relatively cheap white LEDs? The best
> > I found was $0.20 for 3mm here:
> > http://www.rjmods.com/product_info.php?products_id=90
> >
> > But this seems so much cheaper than every place else (around $1.00/
> > each for the cheapest), it seems kind of fishy. Has anyone heard of
> > rjmods before?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
> >
>
>
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From patchell at cox.net  Sun Jan 15 05:56:02 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:56:02 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Full wave rectifier for audio
In-Reply-To: <43C97B67.9010507@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060114205414.02524ac8@pop.west.cox.net>

Take a look here:

http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/archives/idealdiode.html

It is a tutorial...I hope...on using precision diode circuits.


At 10:29 PM 1/14/2006 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm working on a full wave rectifier (as the front end of a noise gate 
>level detector), but I'm having trouble finding a simple circuit that 
>works well.  I'd like it to be done with max 2 opamps plus a few extra 
>components.  Anyone know of a suitable circuit that will work over a wide 
>signal range (i.e. from less than a diode drop up to ~10Vptp)?
>
>The nearest I have so far is this:
>http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/full_wave_rectifier.gif
>(it intentionally has a gain of 2, but this isn't absolutely necessary)
>
>But the problem with this is the circuit itself tends to slightly 
>positively bias the input signal resulting in the positive halves of the 
>wave being slightly higher than the negative halves.  This effect is 
>dependent on the impedance of the driving circuit - if I slap an opamp 
>voltage follower on the input the problem goes away .. but I don't really 
>want to use another opamp if I can help it.
>
>Any ideas how to fix this circuit, or is there another circuit that will 
>do what I want?
>
>Seb
>
>

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************



From stevenpaulcook at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Jan 15 11:23:41 2006
From: stevenpaulcook at tiscali.co.uk (Steven Cook)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 10:23:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero BODE???
In-Reply-To: <200601142345.k0ENjMG9028275@dropmix>
Message-ID: <BFEFD32D.DF7D%stevenpaulcook@tiscali.co.uk>

I've built a hardware frequency shifter and also a VST Plugin. Neither have
through-zero capability (although it would be very easy to add to a software
FS) because IMHO it isn't a very useful feature.

My hardware FS uses a pair of two-stage filters and sounds fine, so I wonder
if large 6-stage filters are really necessary... There is a small amount of
carrier breakthrough, but this is probably as much to do with th fact that I
didn't use any noise reduction, either.

Best Regards,

Steven Cook.

http://www.spcplugins.com/

> From: "phil macnutt" <philmacnutt at mac.com>
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:45:05 -0600
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero BODE???
> 
> Howdy all,
> I'm rather interested in somehow figuring out a way to build a Bode/Moog
> frequency shifter clone of some sort, but I don't understand the guts of how
> it works.  Is the "thru zero VCO" the basis for this famous module?  Would
> anybody care to comment on the possibility of building one?  I'm not looking
> for an exact clone, but something that has the same basic functionality.
> 
> Ten minutes of googling turns up the following info:
> 
> 1. Encore says they sell one for $389 USD, but 1)an email sent bounced,
> and 2)I'd much rather build one at least from a kit/blank PCB
> 
> 2. On Magnus' website there are links to the Moog schematics, but the
> links are dead.
> 
> 3. Two folks I found on the web have built their own (names withheld
> since I don't personally know them), but no PCBS available.
> 
> 4. Analogue Systems sells one for about $1,400 (USD)
> 
> 
> For me, I guess the ultimate goal here is to somehow wind up with a PCB
> layout and a list of components that are readily available.
> 
> So, any help or advice would be most appreciated.
> 
> Best regards,
> Phil


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun Jan 15 13:37:54 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:37:54 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY 
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>
Message-ID: <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

I  find that there are a lot of 'thin' sounding
things that will give a pretty solid bass if you run them
through a filter set just below resonance
(in my case a MS20 filter clone, of which there are a number of 
examples on the net).

But, I am not a dub expert, so I would like to know 
whetehr anyone else thinks this would be suitable?

paul perry melbourne australia


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Jan 15 14:05:28 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:05:28 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
In-Reply-To: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>
Message-ID: <43CA4898.1030808@burnit.co.uk>

First I have to say that the TB303 is capable of the most heavy powerful 
bass sounds with the resonance turned right down to minimum.  But I 
think for dub/reggae you are probably looking for something that has 
more of a bass guitar sound (rather than a square wave or saw wav sound 
that you will get from a 303).

Try a synth that has triangle waves, or maybe even something digital 
like an FM synth.  If the triangle/digital/FM bass sounds too clean then 
try adding a touch of distortion to add some more higher harmonics.

Seb



Philippe Schelt? wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I have a TB303, it is good for acid or high and mid tone analogue synth
>effects but not suitable to generate fat, deep and powerfull bass sounds
>(ie what we use in Reggae/Dub music). Could you suggest me, if it exists,
>a synth DIY project would could answer to my needs ?
>
>Best regards.
>
>Philippe aka Dubphil
>
>***
>http://dubphil.free.fr
>
>
>
>  
>


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Jan 15 14:09:35 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:09:35 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
In-Reply-To: <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net> <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <43CA498F.8050900@burnit.co.uk>

Yes, this is good advice for dub .. again you are encouraging more of a 
sine wave sound (like a bass guitar).  Make sure the filter frequency is 
set to track in tune with the notes, perhaps also add a falling envelope 
to the filter frequency.

(But I don't think this will work very  well with the 303 filter)

Seb


Paul Perry wrote:

>I  find that there are a lot of 'thin' sounding
>things that will give a pretty solid bass if you run them
>through a filter set just below resonance
>(in my case a MS20 filter clone, of which there are a number of 
>examples on the net).
>
>But, I am not a dub expert, so I would like to know 
>whetehr anyone else thinks this would be suitable?
>
>paul perry melbourne australia
>
>
>  
>


From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Jan 15 14:24:45 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:24:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <005701c618ea$dcca57e0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <004b01c618f9$b8258db0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <003501c6190f$704aec40$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <001001c619d7$3cd346a0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

I've been reading up a little history.
So, as I understand it:

The LM3900 was the first quad opamp.

The driving force for 4 pamps in one package was the automotive industry.

There wasn't enough space for an input diff pair on the die, so they
invented
a new type of opamp that worked with currents, going into what
normally would be the second stage.

Then the LM324 was the first quad to feature a split collector diff pair
input stage - gm reduction which allowed small compensation capacitors.

(paraphrasing from Fredriksen, "Intuitive IC Op Amps", 1984)

As for the "strange" pinout, the LM3900 _could_ have defined the pinout
of quads forever, if it wasn't for the LM324 that had a different pinout,
but was much more a "real" opamp.

JH.


From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sun Jan 15 15:04:41 2006
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:04:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
In-Reply-To: <43CA4898.1030808@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com>

I've got some really heavy bass sounds from a DX7 run through a Mutator VCF.
The mutator is a 4-pole low pass Moog style Ladder filter which has a
reputation for fatness - deservedly so IMO. A good one is a very warm beast
indeed.

The DX7 is capable of some very deep Bass sounds - lots of lovely sine
waves, but it's a b*****d to program!. Some of the newer DX synths were
easier - the DX11 has a quick edit function which makes it less daunting,
and although it's only a 4 operator synth, that's plenty for Bass. Besides,
it has more than just sine waves in there.
The DX synths were capable of very fast attack, giving a click at the start
of the sound that not everyone likes. Easy enough to remove - on a DX7, back
off the attack from 99 (max) to about 93 - 94 on the EG attack (rate1) of
carrier operators. This removes the click at the start.
 
A neat trick is to look at the algorithm, and if there is a spare carrier
operator, set it to the  fundamental frequency, and give it the same
envelope as the main carrier operators. Then slowly bring the volume up. You
will be adding in a pure sine tone that's perfectly in sync with the main
sound. It warms things up considerably. Check that there are no tuning
differences between the sine and the main carrier operator(s).

It's often a good idea to set negative volume tracking on the sine i.e. as
the pitch gets higher, the sine wave attenuates, so that it doesn't intrude
into the sound as the pitch gets higher.
BTW, the sine wave trick works very well with other synths too - several of
my K2000 patches have a low level sine mixed into the lower keyboard ranges.

Didn't mean to write all that, I guess it's just nostalgia for the old
faithful DX......

:-)

cheers,

Dave



on 15/1/06 13:05, Seb Francis at seb at burnit.co.uk wrote:

> First I have to say that the TB303 is capable of the most heavy powerful
> bass sounds with the resonance turned right down to minimum.  But I
> think for dub/reggae you are probably looking for something that has
> more of a bass guitar sound (rather than a square wave or saw wav sound
> that you will get from a 303).
> 
> Try a synth that has triangle waves, or maybe even something digital
> like an FM synth.  If the triangle/digital/FM bass sounds too clean then
> try adding a touch of distortion to add some more higher harmonics.
> 
> Seb
> 
> 
> 
> Philippe Schelt? wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I have a TB303, it is good for acid or high and mid tone analogue synth
>> effects but not suitable to generate fat, deep and powerfull bass sounds
>> (ie what we use in Reggae/Dub music). Could you suggest me, if it exists,
>> a synth DIY project would could answer to my needs ?
>> 
>> Best regards.
>> 
>> Philippe aka Dubphil
>> 
>> ***
>> http://dubphil.free.fr
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 



From amajorel at teaser.fr  Sun Jan 15 15:10:19 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:10:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] a couple of comments...
In-Reply-To: <20060115050727.GZ10396@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <200601131602.43641.rtellason@blazenet.net> <010d01c618c5$65d01f00$6a99b418@roc.mn.charter.com> <200601141258.27651.rtellason@blazenet.net> <78f89520601142043i6333ed27na6f1912dc32f54f0@mail.gmail.com> <78f89520601142044w172fd52bjdc292af64086b569@mail.gmail.com> <20060115050727.GZ10396@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <20060115141019.GA3032@atc5.vermine.org>

On 2006-01-14 21:07 -0800, Tom Arnold wrote:

> Although there are strongs reasons both for and against setting
> a list to be "reply to list" unstead of "reply to sender" and
> the horse has been beat to death many times with many opinions,
> I feel I have to say yet again that I wish this list was set for
> "reply to list" :-)

You probably already know this but since your MUA is Mutt, you
can put a line like

  lists synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl

in your .muttrc and reply with [L] instead of [r]. You may have
to leave out the "@dropmix.xs4all.nl" part though, as you're
running a fairly old version of Mutt.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From synth1 at airmail.net  Sun Jan 15 16:47:03 2006
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 09:47:03 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM in Frac
Message-ID: <012801c619ea$ef4424e0$0301a8c0@bilbo>

Photography not my strongest point :)

www.synthtech.com/pix/1485_test.jpg

pc board (roughly 1:1)

www.synthtech.com/pix/1490pcb.jpg

Paul S.


From rainer at buchty.net  Sun Jan 15 17:14:10 2006
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:14:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
In-Reply-To: <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net>

> Or if you have a PC, try the Native Instruments FM7 .. it's like a DX7 
> with an easy to program user interface!  And seeing as through the DX7 
> was digital anyway, sound-wise this is a very accurate software 
> emulation (far closer than any 'virtual analog' softsynths get..).

I still wish the FM-7 was available as a standalone machine... Without 
having to care about the Windows stuff, some few 100MHz ARM would 
probably be sufficient, maybe enhanced with an extra DSP section in case 
FM-7 makes use of MMX.

Rainer


From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Jan 15 17:58:25 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:58:25 +0100
Subject: Frequency Shifter (was: Re: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero BODE???)
References: <200601151537.k0FFbBG9012449@dropmix>
Message-ID: <002101c619f4$e9640a40$0200a8c0@jhsilent>


> I checked Jurgen's site, and indeed you are right, it is all there, just
too
> much of it!  I think I counted like 9 different circuits that I guess
would
> all have to be transferred to PCB.

Really, you don't want a pcb for this. (Unless you plan to put it into
production commecially, in which case we should talk about it anyway 8-) )

Just do it like I did: Use plenty of Veroboard area and solder the
components
such that the lay out reflects the topology of the *schematics*. That's the
secret to easy troubleshooting as well.

BTW, I don't think you really need a thru-zero VCO for a Frequency Shifter.
It's more important that your VCO can go down to very low frequencies
(<0.1 Hz), for these special chorus / infinite phasing effects.

I heard the original Bode has problems to do this. I never played with one
myself,
but I can see that this would be a typical problem of the BFO concept Bode
has used.

I'm working on a new Frequency Shifter, BTW.
This will not have a TZ VCO.

I think Thru Zero FM is a lot more useful for VCOs in Synthesizers than for
frequency shifting. With a FS, you can emulate a certain amount of TZ FM
by _shifting_ a VCO output signal down below zero, even though the FS'
own oscillator frequency doesn't go thru zero.

JH.




 The odds of me getting that right are
> about a million to one.
>
> I think I'll just take my Oakley Equinox and paint "Bode" on the front
panel
> ;-)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of harrybissell
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:12 PM
> To: phil macnutt
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero BODE???
>
> I see you like your projects BIG...
>
> Yes, you need a thru-zero VCO, and some phase splitting filters
> (that are not simple) and a couple of good multipliers.
>
> I believe everything can be found at Jurgen Haible's site.
>
> He likes his projects BIG, too...   :^P
>
> H^) harry  (who likes his projects BIG too... but does not need freq
> shifting
> THAT bad... :^)
>
> phil macnutt wrote:
> >
> > Howdy all,
> > I'm rather interested in somehow figuring out a way to build a Bode/Moog
> > frequency shifter clone of some sort, but I don't understand the guts of
> how
> > it works.  Is the "thru zero VCO" the basis for this famous module?
Would
> > anybody care to comment on the possibility of building one?  I'm not
> looking
> > for an exact clone, but something that has the same basic functionality.
> >
> > Ten minutes of googling turns up the following info:
> >
> > 1.      Encore says they sell one for $389 USD, but 1)an email sent
> bounced,
> > and 2)I'd much rather build one at least from a kit/blank PCB
> >
> > 2.      On Magnus' website there are links to the Moog schematics, but
the
> > links are dead.
> >
> > 3.      Two folks I found on the web have built their own (names
withheld
> > since I don't personally know them), but no PCBS available.
> >
> > 4.      Analogue Systems sells one for about $1,400 (USD)
> >
> > For me, I guess the ultimate goal here is to somehow wind up with a PCB
> > layout and a list of components that are readily available.
> >
> > So, any help or advice would be most appreciated.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Phil
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dave Kendall
> > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:41 AM
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero
> > oscillator...
> >
> > >> i'm also looking at the thru-zero VCO... pretty complex project,
> > >> but i'll never be buying one from cyndustries... any of you
> > >> oldtimers ever build one of these beasts?
> >
> > I found this. Doesn't look too complicated......
> >
> > <http://www.edn.com/article/CA341451.html>
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dave
>
>


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan 15 18:09:32 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 12:09:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net> <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43CA498F.8050900@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43CA81CC.2A9FBF1E@prodigy.net>

I use a processed guitar to get pertty authentic 'bass guitar'
sounds.

The key (imho) for real sounds is to start with a sawtooth, or
sawtooth-like
wave.  I actually make mine taking a square wave, filter until it 
triangle
like (simple RC filter - 6dB) then half wave rectify that. You get a
triangle
shaped rise with a long return to zero.  Then I use a vactol filter
driven from
an envelope follower... so that the harmonic content quickly falls.

I 'can' make the system pass the triangle wave. This has only odd
harmonics
and sounds like a synth-bass... much more bottom end, but not at all
like a
bass guitar.  I like both flavors. Usually I'm using the
pseudo-sawtooth... but
if I decide on playing Pink floyd I switch :^P

H^) harry

Seb Francis wrote:
> 
> Yes, this is good advice for dub .. again you are encouraging more of a
> sine wave sound (like a bass guitar).  Make sure the filter frequency is
> set to track in tune with the notes, perhaps also add a falling envelope
> to the filter frequency.
> 
> (But I don't think this will work very  well with the 303 filter)
> 
> Seb
> 
> Paul Perry wrote:
> 
> >I  find that there are a lot of 'thin' sounding
> >things that will give a pretty solid bass if you run them
> >through a filter set just below resonance
> >(in my case a MS20 filter clone, of which there are a number of
> >examples on the net).
> >
> >But, I am not a dub expert, so I would like to know
> >whetehr anyone else thinks this would be suitable?
> >
> >paul perry melbourne australia
> >
> >
> >
> >


From Stromeko at compuserve.de  Sun Jan 15 18:34:57 2006
From: Stromeko at compuserve.de (ASSI)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:34:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] a couple of comments...
In-Reply-To: <200601131602.43641.rtellason@blazenet.net>
References: <200601131602.43641.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <200601151834.57042.Stromeko@Compuserve.DE>

On Freitag, 13. Januar 2006 22:02, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
> Second,  PLEASE don't CC me offlist with a copy of your reply to some
> thread that I just happened to post in just because the software is
> set up that way, or "reply to all" is easier,  or whatever the heck
> the reason is.  I read the list,  I get a copy of it there,  and
> there's no reason to clutter up my inbox (and make me waste the time
> downloading) another copy.

The reason really is that this list is not configured to provide a

Reply-To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl

header, so most mail programs won't recognize that this mail has come 
from a list. The standard reply is then to the sender only or standard 
reply-all to the list and the sender. Several cascades of that later 
you have a reply-all to the list and all the senders in that thread.

One solution is to filter all mail from SDIY into its own folder and 
tell the mail program that this folder holds a mailing list (that 
should also get rid of list crossposts), but a) not all mailers can do 
that easily and b) not all users know they should do that. So the 
listadmin should better configure the proper headers... There are other 
ways to configure different mail programs to recognize "listness", but 
this can be a drag if you have to do it for each list.

Meanwhile, since you seem to use KMail: configure a POP filter that 
blocks all mails that are sent to both yourself and SDIY from 
downloading. When you're convinced that this filter works correctly you  
can switch the filter action to "delete on server". I haven't found a 
way to block HTML only mails before download. You can also switch 
identities in KMail so that for all posts to SDIY you add the Reply-To: 
yourself.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk sonic heaven]>+

SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
http://Stromeko.Synth.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada


From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Jan 15 19:13:03 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 11:13:03 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 9V battery vs. 9V psu power
Message-ID: <200601151913.k0FJD3p31204@linux7>

"JH." <jhaible at debitel.net> wrote:
>Your transistor's be reverse breakdown voltage ("zener" voltage)
>may be just low enough to work with 9V, but not with something like
>8.8V anymore ...
>Rememeber, the data sheet specifies a minimum voltage here, it may be
>considerably higher.

Aha, so if that is the case, couldn't one connect the diode bias
resistor to -9v instead of ground and increase also it's size?  It's
AC coupled to the opamp input, so this shouldn't cause a problem.

>
>JH.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Karl Ekdahl" <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:27 PM
>Subject: [sdiy] 9V battery vs. 9V psu power
>
>
>> I have a noise source that refuses to work from a dual
>> 9V battery split supply, but that works perfectly with
>> a +-9V psu. I can't for my life figure out what to do
>> to make it work, the only difference i can see is that
>> the batteries will drop in voltage a little after
>> usage. I used this shemo by Ren? Schmitz:
>> (http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/noise.png)
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Karl
>>
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.


From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Sun Jan 15 19:27:59 2006
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:27:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] 9V battery vs. 9V psu power
Message-ID: <20060115182759.82031.qmail@web26209.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I have a noise source that refuses to work from a dual
9V battery split supply, but that works perfectly with
a +-9V psu. I can't for my life figure out what to do
to make it work, the only difference i can see is that
the batteries will drop in voltage a little after
usage. I used this shemo by Ren? Schmitz:
(http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/noise.png)

thanks

Karl


From rainer at buchty.net  Sun Jan 15 19:36:10 2006
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:36:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
In-Reply-To: <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151926350.1993@laptop.buchty.net>

> Why not use an old PC .. probably ?50 worth of PC + ?50 ASIO soundcard 
> would be ample to run the FM7 as a standalone app. You can even 
> control the PC remotely from your main computer with something like 
> VNC (free cross platform software for remote graphical control) so you 
> don't need a monitor, keyboard & mouse.

That's still a PC. In one way or another I require keyboard, mouse, and 
monitor -- and the whole thing requires longish booting.

Plus, I still don't have a keyboard connected. (Call me old-fashioned, 
but IMO sound generator and keyboard are a non-divideable unit, even if 
I so far only have two hands and even if a keyboard takes up plenty of 
space -- I just prefer the instant playability and accessibility.)

In other words: I'd like to have that thing sitting in front of me, 
looking similar to a DX7, or better, SY77 in terms of accessibility.

Rainer




From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Jan 15 19:43:59 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:43:59 +0100
Subject: Standalone PC synths (was: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY)
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

I wish I could have my Steinberg Grand 2, or my M-Tron as a standalone
version!
Too bad that the Grand won't run on a cheap PC. I have just bought 2GBytes
of RAM
to make it work without glitches.

It's funny that, while I've never been interested in hardware samplers or
ROMlers,
and never even taken a second glance at virtual analogue software, I'm
really hooked on
big sample playing programs. When I look back over the last month, I've been
playing
more "grand piano" than synthesizers. I even think about taking lessons.

But it would really be great to have it stand-alone. I love the VNC idea,
which would
make monitor and mouse and keyboard dispensable. But more than tat, it would
be
important that this PC would boot and go straight into the VST program with
just
switching the machine on.

Well, I'm only thinking out loud. With my fan-less PC in the studio, it's
fine just like
it is.

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Seb Francis" <seb at burnit.co.uk>
To: "Rainer Buchty" <rainer at buchty.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY


> Why not use an old PC .. probably ?50 worth of PC + ?50 ASIO soundcard
> would be ample to run the FM7 as a standalone app.  You can even control
> the PC remotely from your main computer with something like VNC (free
> cross platform software for remote graphical control) so you don't need
> a monitor, keyboard & mouse.
>
> Seb
>
>
> Rainer Buchty wrote:
>
> >>Or if you have a PC, try the Native Instruments FM7 .. it's like a DX7
> >>with an easy to program user interface!  And seeing as through the DX7
> >>was digital anyway, sound-wise this is a very accurate software
> >>emulation (far closer than any 'virtual analog' softsynths get..).
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I still wish the FM-7 was available as a standalone machine... Without
> >having to care about the Windows stuff, some few 100MHz ARM would
> >probably be sufficient, maybe enhanced with an extra DSP section in case
> >FM-7 makes use of MMX.
> >
> >Rainer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>


From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Jan 15 20:02:49 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:02:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 9V battery vs. 9V psu power
References: <20060115182759.82031.qmail@web26209.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005201c61a06$4c927370$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

Your transistor's be reverse breakdown voltage ("zener" voltage)
may be just low enough to work with 9V, but not with something like
8.8V anymore ...
Rememeber, the data sheet specifies a minimum voltage here, it may be
considerably higher.

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karl Ekdahl" <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:27 PM
Subject: [sdiy] 9V battery vs. 9V psu power


> I have a noise source that refuses to work from a dual
> 9V battery split supply, but that works perfectly with
> a +-9V psu. I can't for my life figure out what to do
> to make it work, the only difference i can see is that
> the batteries will drop in voltage a little after
> usage. I used this shemo by Ren? Schmitz:
> (http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/noise.png)
>
> thanks
>
> Karl
>


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Jan 15 20:11:49 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:11:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <43CA9E75.2030300@burnit.co.uk>

Rainer Buchty wrote:

>In other words: I'd like to have that thing sitting in front of me, 
>looking similar to a DX7, or better, SY77 in terms of accessibility.
>
>  
>
Well there are ways ...
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/articles/openlabsneko.htm


JH. wrote:

>But it would really be great to have it stand-alone. I love the VNC idea,
>which would
>make monitor and mouse and keyboard dispensable. But more than tat, it would
>be
>important that this PC would boot and go straight into the VST program with
>just
>switching the machine on.
>  
>
No reason you can't just add a shortcut to the windows Startup folder ...

Or better still you could create an auto-starting setup running a number 
of synths within something like Steinberg V-STack, each accessible over 
a different MIDI channel and outputing to a different soundcard channel.

Or if you don't mind routing MIDI and audio within software on your main 
computer, but you still want to spread the CPU/resources onto another 
PC, this is a cool concept:
http://www.fx-max.com/fxt/
(Needs *fast* network to work well .. gigabit ethernet is best)

Seb



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan 15 20:17:58 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:17:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 9V battery vs. 9V psu power
References: <200601151843.k0FIhTp17410@linux7>
Message-ID: <43CA9FE6.DC6F119F@prodigy.net>

Best bet is to connect the base of the noise transistor to
-9V.  That would allow up to 18V across the transistor, minus diode
drops.

If you get (teehee) NOISE pickup from the -9V you could duplicate the
4.7K / 100uF filter on the base as well. Might need to play with the
bias resistor.

Note that PAiA used to run the noise generator from the 18V supply...
not
the 9V. True of the 'surf synth' as well

H^) harry

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> 
> Prolly a silly question, but just in case, I assume you are
> connecting ground to where the two 9 volt batteries are
> connected together?  Seems to me that this should work, esp.
> if it works with a PSU of the same voltage.
> 
> Karl Ekdahl <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se> wrote:
> >I have a noise source that refuses to work from a dual
> >9V battery split supply, but that works perfectly with
> >a +-9V psu. I can't for my life figure out what to do
> >to make it work, the only difference i can see is that
> >the batteries will drop in voltage a little after
> >usage. I used this shemo by Ren? Schmitz:
> >(http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/noise.png)
> >
> >thanks
> >
> >Karl
> >
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> - Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
> - Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
> - What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> - The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
> - Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.
> 
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> -- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 21:05:49 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:05:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] There're a couple of new photos up. :)
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601151205s6870f09cybbcdb59821def3ab@mail.gmail.com>

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - has an early picture of
the new sequencer panel at the top of the cabinet and
http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/design.html - has a picture of the
back of the panel, so far. :)

I hope to have at least the sequencer up and running, by this evening. :)

Open to constructive criticisms if you have any. :D  As well as any
questions or upgrade ideas. :)  I have HUGE amounts of plans for
version 3.00 of the sequencer and am open to new ideas as well as
sharing any of my own. :)
The schematic for this sequencer will be up on the site sometime later
in the week as well - free for any and all to use. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 1206 update


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Jan 15 21:59:21 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:59:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Peak Detector [was: Full wave rectifier for audio]
Message-ID: <43CAB7A9.9090202@burnit.co.uk>

After some very helpful help (thanks Harry!) I am progressing with my 
Noise gate / MIDI gate, and now have a functioning peak detector with 
variable hold.

For anyone interested, here is the schematic of the peak detector part...
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/peak_detect.gif
(the output is the wire from C98 that doesn't go anywhere yet)

The full wave rectifier / abs-value part consists of the 2 opamps and 
the 300K resistors.  This is a really neat little circuit (sent to me by 
Harry).  I've added a peak hold bit on the end (R86, D33 & C98), and a 
constant current sink for the peak hold.

The gain of the abs-value part is 2 (change R73 to 300K for unity gain).

Having a constant current sink for the peak decay means that the 
threshold setting will affect the peak hold time in a linear way.  It 
also means that the louder the peak, the longer the peak hold.

With the peak hold set on minimum (very fast ~10ms), quite a large 
amount of ripple is let through for low frequency inputs (I plan to have 
enough hysteresis in the threshold detect comparator to avoid chattering).

The 3rd transistor in the current mirror halves the current through Q7, 
(almost) doubling the max decay time (it was done this way because 2M 
pots aren't easily available).

The peak decay becomes less linear towards the slower settings because 
of current passing back through the 300K resistors - I didn't want to 
use too large resistors here, and ~600ms peak hold was enough for my 
application.

The MIDI TRIG input comes direct from a PIC I/O pin.

Seb



From modcan at sympatico.ca  Sun Jan 15 22:31:31 2006
From: modcan at sympatico.ca (Modcan Synthesizers)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:31:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM in Frac
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20060115163006.02a808a0@sympatico.ca>

At 01:31 PM 15/01/2006, you wrote:
>Be nice! This has to be a $5 panel in order to meet costs. The 
>panels are *TINY*. Besides, these are FPE 1-off etching, the real 
>ones are painted and screened. So, these fonts are are little 'off'.
>
>And yes, I'll be the first to admit that front panels have been the 
>bane of my existance since day one (currently on panel supplier #5). 
>At least I don't have to spend 30min prepping each one like Cynthia 
>has to  (she claims 15% reject rate + lots of burrs and 'gunk' when 
>she receives them).
>
>And I just passed Bob Moog up on # of modules shipped, so there :)
>
>
>Paul S.
>see you Thursday
Your right. That was mean.
Panels are my biggest problem too. For the B series I gave up and now 
do the silk screening myself.
I still get them painted outside but even there I have to stay on top of QC.
Most shops I deal with are staffed by goons with no concept of craftsmanship.

Looking forward to meeting you.
It should be a fun couple of days.
I am looking forward to going somewhere without snow.

BTW your email address keeps bouncing back.

Bruce



From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Jan 15 23:29:50 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:29:50 +0100
Subject: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <200601151622.26508.rtellason@blazenet.net> <008901c61a1d$6a773990$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <200601151700.57842.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <009901c61a23$34cbd930$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

I think they are similar to the 4558.
Just use duals instead of quads. 8-)

My favorites are:
TL071 / 072 / 074 where high input impedance is needed
CA3140 / CA3240 where higher input impedance is needed
Discrete transistor circuits or NE5532 or AD275 for "demanding" audio
circuits,
TL071 / 072 / 074 or RC4558 for less demanding audio circuits,
LM324 / LM358 / uA741 where slow = good (immune to interference)
OP-07 for slow, low offset applications,
TL080 for tailoring slew rate,
12BH7 for driving 600Ohm lines with 4:1 transformers  8-) 8-)

JH.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at blazenet.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff


> On Sunday 15 January 2006 04:48 pm, JH. wrote:
> > > Speaking of oddball pinouts,  any of you guys use either the 4136 or
4739
> >
> > at
> >
> > > all?
> >
> > I used 4136 _once_.
> >
> > Old Dynacord FX are full of them, though.
>
> I only remember running into them in Tapco mixers,  which for some reason
I
> ran into a bunch of back when.  And they seem to be the devices of choice
in
> this Craig Anderton book I have on hand here.
>
> What would you guys use in place of them?  I vaguely recall that they were
> low-noise or something.
>
> -- 
> Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
> ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
> be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
> -
> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by
lies. --James
> M Dakin
>
>


From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Mon Jan 16 00:29:27 2006
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (mirwin at marketbridge.ca)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:29:27 -0500
Subject: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <200601151622.26508.rtellason@blazenet.net> <008901c61a1d$6a773990$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <200601151700.57842.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <43CADAD7.244F@marketbridge.ca>

4136 very similar in electrical characteristics to 4558. Unfortunately 
the only "quad 4558" I have seen is the Panasonic AN6554... which is out 
of production. It does have the standard quad pinout though. 
Mike


From loscha at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 01:18:20 2006
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:18:20 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] midi sysex to cv?
In-Reply-To: <43CAE1F5.7070607@comcast.net>
References: <43CAE1F5.7070607@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0601151618p7ed9d2e7r3fbea9e27a683b1a@mail.gmail.com>

This might suit you, Henry.
http://www.paia.com/midi2cv.htm
it's pretty cost effective, too, even factoring in the power supply.

On 1/16/06, henry birdseye <hsb at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hi. I'm new to SDIY but have been synthesizing since 1973. Most recently
> I have been using Cubase to synth, but I want to include my 2600 and
> some other gear in on the fun.
>
> Is it possible to, or has anyone done this, take the curves than can be
> drawn in a software sequencer controller and somehow manage to get them
> out as CVs?
>
> Henry B
> http://www.henrybirdseye.com
>
>
>
>
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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan 16 01:37:35 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:37:35 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] midi sysex to cv?
In-Reply-To: <43CAE1F5.7070607@comcast.net>
References: <43CAE1F5.7070607@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <43CAEACF.90103@burnit.co.uk>

If you haven't already got one and you don't want to build one yourself, 
Kenton do a multi output MIDI to CV converter ...
http://www.kentonuk.com/digital_interfaces_converters/midi_cv_converters_extras/pro2000.html


henry birdseye wrote:

> Hi. I'm new to SDIY but have been synthesizing since 1973. Most 
> recently I have been using Cubase to synth, but I want to include my 
> 2600 and some other gear in on the fun.
>
> Is it possible to, or has anyone done this, take the curves than can 
> be drawn in a software sequencer controller and somehow manage to get 
> them out as CVs?
>
> Henry B
> http://www.henrybirdseye.com
>
>
>
>
>


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 16 01:48:00 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:48:00 -0500
Subject: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <200601151622.26508.rtellason@blazenet.net> <008901c61a1d$6a773990$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <200601151700.57842.rtellason@blazenet.net> <009901c61a23$34cbd930$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <43CAED40.BE1D7450@prodigy.net>

inline....

"JH." wrote:
> 
> I think they are similar to the 4558.
> Just use duals instead of quads. 8-)
> 
> My favorites are:
> TL071 / 072 / 074 where high input impedance is needed

OK, ditto...

> CA3140 / CA3240 where higher input impedance is needed

OK, ditto...
> Discrete transistor circuits or NE5532 or AD275 for "demanding" audio
> circuits,

5532 is pretty demanding of power supply current, and low input
impedance
for best results. Have not tried the AD275... whats it like ???

> TL071 / 072 / 074 or RC4558 for less demanding audio circuits,

The 4558 is an excellent low noise opamp !!!

When I was a newby (yes... newby... thats what we used to call newbys
before
all you newbies showed up on the scene... sometime in the last century
or so :^)

I took apart my Slavedriver guitar interface... and was HORRIFIED to
discover the
4558 (which I foolishly thought was like a 1458, without looking at the
data sheet)... and ripped them out to replace them with some superior
opamp that
surely my employer would have in stock.  WRONG MOVE newby...   I found
that it was
a better part for that application than anything we had, and i could not
find a better one, even for money !!!

Happy ending... I had removed them carefully, and used sockets. Put them
back in
where they remain to this day.

lesson learned...  Engineers specify parts for a reason. Sometimes you
have to decide... was the designer fvcking stupid... or were they so
clever I can't follow
their train of thought. Usually its the latter...

> LM324 / LM358 / uA741 where slow = good (immune to interference)

Another AMEN. 741 can be a GOOD thing. They don't suffer from "phase
reversal" when overdriven, have symmetrical source sink characteristics,
and are almost
indestructible !!!

> OP-07 for slow, low offset applications,

do go on....

> TL080 for tailoring slew rate,

Hmm havent tried that...

> 12BH7 for driving 600Ohm lines with 4:1 transformers  8-) 8-)

Hmmm... isnt that one of those octal deals in the hermetic glass package
???  ;^P

H^) harry


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan 16 02:06:44 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:06:44 +0000
Subject: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff
In-Reply-To: <43CAED40.BE1D7450@prodigy.net>
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <200601151622.26508.rtellason@blazenet.net> <008901c61a1d$6a773990$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <200601151700.57842.rtellason@blazenet.net> <009901c61a23$34cbd930$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <43CAED40.BE1D7450@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <43CAF1A4.4070204@burnit.co.uk>


>>e transistor circuits or NE5532 or AD275 for "demanding" audio
>>circuits,
>>    
>>
>
>5532 is pretty demanding of power supply current, and low input
>impedance
>for best results. Have not tried the AD275... whats it like ???
>
>  
>
>  
>

Maybe JH means the Analog Devices OP275 ?  I've seen this one used in 
many high-end audio circuits.

 From the datasheet..
"The OP275 is the first amplifier to feature the Butler Amplifier front 
end. This new front end design combines both bipolar and JFET 
transistors to attain amplifiers with the accuracy and low noise 
performance of bipolar transistors, and the speed and sound quality of 
JFETs. Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise equals that of previous 
audio amplifiers, but at much lower supply currents."

Seb



From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Jan 16 02:18:02 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:18:02 +0100
Subject: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <200601151622.26508.rtellason@blazenet.net> <008901c61a1d$6a773990$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <200601151700.57842.rtellason@blazenet.net> <009901c61a23$34cbd930$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <43CAED40.BE1D7450@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <001001c61a3a$b6871810$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

> 5532 is pretty demanding of power supply current,

Wait until you connect a resistor from its output to one psu rail to
make them run in class A. Now it's power hungry!

> > LM324 / LM358 / uA741 where slow = good (immune to interference)
>
> Another AMEN. 741 can be a GOOD thing. They don't suffer from "phase
> reversal" when overdriven,

A former colleague at Siemens (now retired) claimed that it was him who
demanded that the manufacturer (Fairchild? - not sure) changed the design
to get rid of phase reversal, in order to qualify that chip for use in
nuclear power
plants.

> > 12BH7 for driving 600Ohm lines with 4:1 transformers  8-) 8-)
>
> Hmmm... isnt that one of those octal deals in the hermetic glass package
> ???  ;^P

Noval.

JH.


From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Jan 16 02:19:58 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:19:58 +0100
Subject: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <200601151622.26508.rtellason@blazenet.net> <008901c61a1d$6a773990$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <200601151700.57842.rtellason@blazenet.net> <009901c61a23$34cbd930$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <43CAED40.BE1D7450@prodigy.net> <43CAF1A4.4070204@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001901c61a3a$f8799220$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

> Maybe JH means the Analog Devices OP275 ? 

Oh yes. OP, not AD, but from AD.

JH.


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 16 03:32:49 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:32:49 -0500
Subject: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff
References: <20060113225527.54469.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> <200601151622.26508.rtellason@blazenet.net> <008901c61a1d$6a773990$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <200601151700.57842.rtellason@blazenet.net> <009901c61a23$34cbd930$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <43CAED40.BE1D7450@prodigy.net> <001001c61a3a$b6871810$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <43CB05D1.438F3C92@prodigy.net>

"JH." wrote:

> A former colleague at Siemens (now retired) claimed that it was him who
> demanded that the manufacturer (Fairchild? - not sure) changed the design
> to get rid of phase reversal, in order to qualify that chip for use in
> nuclear power
> plants.

HAH. Good one.  I had a design (not mine) that used the OP-07... which
they
later substituted the OP-77 (improved, yeah right).  Don't know WHY they
switched because the OP-07 still lives. Maybe a boat was involved in the 
purchase decision.

Now this was in a servo HEATER loop... so when the OP-77 did the 'phase
reversal'
thing (OP-07 doesn't)... the heater sensed it was too hot, so it turned
the power
UP. (change of sign can be very serious in a closed loop :^).  This if
unnoticed
would trash the $150 heater wire (Platinum) and maybe take the Vicor
tube ($700)
and the sensor ($1,000).

I had never seen 'phase reversal' then. It was an expensive lesson. We
noticed by
dumb luck that the OP-07 never had a problem. Only years later did I
recognise
the root cause :^)

I understand the nuclear option. China Syndrome, anyone ???

H^) harry


From cornutt at hiwaay.net  Mon Jan 16 04:02:50 2006
From: cornutt at hiwaay.net (David Cornutt)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:02:50 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] White LED Source
In-Reply-To: <908a4c120601141808j654be6bau967add306b2b7614@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY109-F10126CBBEA6327CF22398BD8190@phx.gbl> <E227C179-123B-4056-AA0E-D80B733230CF@earthlink.net> <0B17EA32-4D73-414E-B2D5-0292F68ACCD6@experimentalistsanonymous.com> <908a4c120601141808j654be6bau967add306b2b7614@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <944E2A46-863C-11DA-881E-0003938E2F50@hiwaay.net>

> On Jan 14, 2006, at 1:21 PM, xamboldt wrote:
>
> > Anyone know a good source for relatively cheap white LEDs? The best
> > I found was $0.20 for 3mm here:
> > http://www.rjmods.com/product_info.php?products_id=90
>

Not quite as cheap, but LSDiodes has white 3mm LEDs at $0.60 each.
I've done business with them several times and they have always been
reliable.  www.lsdiodes.com


From tonyallgood at btinternet.com  Mon Jan 16 09:58:16 2006
From: tonyallgood at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:58:16 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <43CB6028.7050701@btinternet.com>

There is always this:

http://www.museresearch.com/

A friend of mine has two of these to replace his minimoog [with 
Arturia's version] and his mellotron [with M-Tron]. Although he still 
has the originals in his studio, having the receptor in a rack is a lot 
easier for Live playing.

Although I love watching the tapes go up and down when the mellotron 
gets played...

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Jan 16 10:21:57 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible at debitel.net)
Date: 16 Jan 2006 10:21:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <43CB6028.7050701@btinternet.com>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <43CB6028.7050701@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1137403317.43cb65b55e198@www.debitel.net>

> There is always this:
> 
> http://www.museresearch.com/

Ha, I knew something like that _must_ be made sooner or later,
but I had no idea it already exists.

Just starting to read about its features.

But, seriously, what idiot decided to put fans into this.
A fan doesn't belong into a musical instrument.
I can see it wouldn't matter on stage, but in the studio,
I don't want a fan even in the same _room_ while making
music. So the idea of bringing the PC-based sound engine
closer to the keyboard is heavily compromised, I'd say.

JH.


-------------------------------------------------
debitel.net Webmail


From timexheater at comcast.net  Mon Jan 16 12:06:39 2006
From: timexheater at comcast.net (NATE!)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 06:06:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Oxygen8 guts
Message-ID: <004501c61a8c$f041b720$6401a8c0@NATHANTHIRMSZ>

didn't see anything in the archive so i guess i'll outline this crap :)

i've already got a big midi controller for DAW and other work [behringer
bcf], but i've had this Oxygen8 controller for about a year, they don't sell
for enough to make it worth my while, so i decided to have a poke around
inside since i wanted a small controller to take on tour at the end of this
month [www.cacophonophilia.org/tour/ btw!].

nothing very interesting inside - three boards:
- main CPU + output board - 22x6cm
- LCD board + vol/data slider - 8x6.5cm
- pot board + up/down button - 15.5x6.5cm

and then the keyboard, the mod wheel, and pitch wheel. everything has it's
own ribbon cable to connect it to the CPU board. the CPU board also has a
spot where the headers for a second set of keys would be - i wouldn't be
surprised if you added one and then got some keys it would work - this whole
system is plug and play as i show next.

it works completely fine running with just the knobs, or just the lcd + vol
slider, or just the benders etc... i guess it's either smart enough to
ignore problems or dumb enough to not care :)
the only time i noticed anything odd is if the LCD is hooked up and you
unplug the LCD's ribbon cable, the volume slider data will go from it's last
position and over the course of about ten seconds will increase to full CC
volume.

pleasantly surprising: the diode on the 6xAA battery holder

i did forget to check to see if you can reassign knob CCs via external midi,
which i don't think you can, but in any software situation where you can
just assign as you go it itsn't too important.

looks like all i need now is a case that will fit the main board, and pot
board and i'll be set for rocking audiomulch and my micromodular on the road
with a tiny controller :)

- nate



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan 16 13:33:12 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:33:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <1137403317.43cb65b55e198@www.debitel.net>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <43CB6028.7050701@btinternet.com> <1137403317.43cb65b55e198@www.debitel.net>
Message-ID: <43CB9288.3070705@burnit.co.uk>

There's a review of this here ..
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/articles/muse.htm

They also mention quite early in the review that it has *two* fans!

Seb


jhaible at debitel.net wrote:

>>There is always this:
>>
>>http://www.museresearch.com/
>>    
>>
>
>Ha, I knew something like that _must_ be made sooner or later,
>but I had no idea it already exists.
>
>Just starting to read about its features.
>
>But, seriously, what idiot decided to put fans into this.
>A fan doesn't belong into a musical instrument.
>I can see it wouldn't matter on stage, but in the studio,
>I don't want a fan even in the same _room_ while making
>music. So the idea of bringing the PC-based sound engine
>closer to the keyboard is heavily compromised, I'd say.
>
>JH.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>debitel.net Webmail
>
>
>  
>


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan 16 13:35:50 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:35:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <1488.80.124.137.201.1137408348.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com>    <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk>    <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net>    <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>    <43CB6028.7050701@btinternet.com> <1488.80.124.137.201.1137408348.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>
Message-ID: <43CB9326.80405@burnit.co.uk>

Philippe Schelt? wrote:

>>There is always this:
>>
>>http://www.museresearch.com/
>>
>>A friend of mine has two of these to replace his minimoog [with
>>Arturia's version] and his mellotron [with M-Tron]. Although he still
>>has the originals in his studio, having the receptor in a rack is a lot
>>easier for Live playing.
>>    
>>
>
>hugh !  hope it runs under a macosx os ;)
>
>  
>
Actually it runs a customised version of Linux.  It has PC hardware, so 
will run only PC format VST plugins (and even then it won't run all 
plugins).

Seb



From richard at skydancer.com  Mon Jan 16 13:49:32 2006
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:49:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <43CB9288.3070705@burnit.co.uk>
References: <1137403317.43cb65b55e198@www.debitel.net>
 <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
 <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net>
 <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk>
 <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
 <43CB6028.7050701@btinternet.com>
 <1137403317.43cb65b55e198@www.debitel.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060116124417.04069918@mail.skydancer.com>

At 12:33 16/01/2006, Seb Francis wrote:
>There's a review of this here ..
>http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/articles/muse.htm
>
>They also mention quite early in the review that it has *two* fans!

The problem isn't the fan. The problem is that it's underpowered. It also 
doesn't have enough MIDI sockets. In an ideal world I'd want at least two 
and ideally four separate MIDI ins.

With a 4200+ dual-core Athlon X2 I have *nearly* enough power to run all 
the plug-ins I want. Something like the Receptor, which has a bit more than 
a quarter of the grunt, won't be enough for even a single complex Arturia 
Modular patch.

But a year or so from now when the dual-core version comes out, it will 
look a lot more interesting.

Personally I'm not bothered about fans, unless they're really really loud - 
which usually they aren't. If I want to record with a microphone there's 
always the spare bedroom. And if the noise gets really annoying there's 
always the option of moving the machine elsewhere and controlling it remotely.

Richard


From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Jan 16 13:50:16 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (jhaible at debitel.net)
Date: 16 Jan 2006 13:50:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <43CB9288.3070705@burnit.co.uk>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <43CB6028.7050701@btinternet.com> <1137403317.43cb65b55e198@www.debitel.net> <43CB9288.3070705@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1137415816.43cb96887654f@www.debitel.net>

And the picture with the lid opened shows at least a 3rd fan.
Too stupid. 

And for that price tag, I could buy another Deltatronic Silentium:
http://www.deltatronic.de/int/pc/index.html
If you look inside one of these, they simply replace all the fans
with a heatpipe, and use the enclosure as a huge heatsink.
That's the least a tool dedicated to creating music can do.

(I'm aware that the deltatronic is a PC, and the Muse is more
than a PC, based on PC technology - but why not build such a
system on a *silent* PC to start with ??)

JH.

> There's a review of this here ..
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/articles/muse.htm
> 
> They also mention quite early in the review that it has *two* fans!
> 
> Seb
> 
> 
> jhaible at debitel.net wrote:
> 
> >>There is always this:
> >>
> >>http://www.museresearch.com/
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Ha, I knew something like that _must_ be made sooner or later,
> >but I had no idea it already exists.
> >
> >Just starting to read about its features.
> >
> >But, seriously, what idiot decided to put fans into this.
> >A fan doesn't belong into a musical instrument.
> >I can see it wouldn't matter on stage, but in the studio,
> >I don't want a fan even in the same _room_ while making
> >music. So the idea of bringing the PC-based sound engine
> >closer to the keyboard is heavily compromised, I'd say.
> >
> >JH.
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------
> >debitel.net Webmail
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 




-------------------------------------------------
debitel.net Webmail


From kokoon at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 14:22:05 2006
From: kokoon at gmail.com (jure zitnik)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:22:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <43CB99DA.9070708@burnit.co.uk>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
	 <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net>
	 <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk>
	 <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
	 <43CB6028.7050701@btinternet.com>
	 <1137403317.43cb65b55e198@www.debitel.net>
	 <43CB9288.3070705@burnit.co.uk>
	 <1137415816.43cb96887654f@www.debitel.net>
	 <43CB99DA.9070708@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1a2016d80601160522u2b55759fn6af7597de57c3a54@mail.gmail.com>

regarding soundblaster live cards - there's a nice project called "kX
project" (http://www.kxproject.com) that offers nice patchable dsp
programming of the emu 10k processors on those soundcards and also
enables you to put more than 1 card in a windows box. i'm currently
running mine with 3 cards. it also adds ASIO support and plugin
effects for that dsp application. it's actually something like reaktor
only hardware-based but with higher-level modules (no OSCs and such -
mostly effects). i recommend this to anyone that still uses
sbLive/audigy.


From keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk  Mon Jan 16 14:29:00 2006
From: keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk (Keith Winstanley)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:29 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Minimoog Questions
Message-ID: <memo.485638@cix.compulink.co.uk>

Hi all,

in the final stages of my mini restoration, everything works
great...except I can't tune the oscillators; I tune 'range'
then setting 'scale' shifts this tuning and I can't get 'scale'
to reach an 'A'. (This is using pre 10175 board).
All trims have been replaced with 25 turn trims and I have
jumpered where necessary. (all but 'Range 3' and 'Octave')

I have one problem in that I can get no response from the
'octave' trim but nowhere in the literature can I find how
this should be set anyway. 741s are all new, I am suspicious
of Q38 (3392) which does not show a short but I may swap
anyway. I need to un solder a lug of the associated caps and
test them too.

The other thing I am suspicious of are the 741s on the osc buffer
board - blackened legs, I need to change these for LF411s
and I am getting so much bleed through when using headphones;
I can here all the oscillators running whether switched in to
the mix or not or is this normal for headphone output or could
it be a dodgy buffer board?

Just thought I would put this up in case anyone has had
similar problems and might be able to offer a few pointers?


Also..

Still looking for rear panel and prop - someone must have a
reasonable spare in the attic??

Many thanks in advance

Regards

Keith

http://home.freeuk.net/lowpass


From altitude at optrand.com  Mon Jan 16 14:44:23 2006
From: altitude at optrand.com (Altitude)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:44:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <43CB9288.3070705@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200601161344.k0GDiJG9005913@dropmix>

There is also something called plugzilla which is similar to the Muse

http://www.plugzilla.com/


__________________________________________
"Setting the RESONANCE to high level might prove interesting" - Roland
SH-101 Manual

www.no-ho.com
www.teknatural.com

 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Seb Francis
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:33 AM
To: jhaible at debitel.net
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths

There's a review of this here ..
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/articles/muse.htm

They also mention quite early in the review that it has *two* fans!

Seb


jhaible at debitel.net wrote:

>>There is always this:
>>
>>http://www.museresearch.com/
>>    
>>
>
>Ha, I knew something like that _must_ be made sooner or later, but I 
>had no idea it already exists.
>
>Just starting to read about its features.
>
>But, seriously, what idiot decided to put fans into this.
>A fan doesn't belong into a musical instrument.
>I can see it wouldn't matter on stage, but in the studio, I don't want 
>a fan even in the same _room_ while making music. So the idea of 
>bringing the PC-based sound engine closer to the keyboard is heavily 
>compromised, I'd say.
>
>JH.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>debitel.net Webmail
>
>
>  
>


From clark at andrews.edu  Mon Jan 16 16:32:58 2006
From: clark at andrews.edu (clark at andrews.edu)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:32:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] White LED Source
In-Reply-To: <908a4c120601141808j654be6bau967add306b2b7614@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY109-F10126CBBEA6327CF22398BD8190@phx.gbl>
    <E227C179-123B-4056-AA0E-D80B733230CF@earthlink.net>
    <0B17EA32-4D73-414E-B2D5-0292F68ACCD6@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
    <908a4c120601141808j654be6bau967add306b2b7614@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56487.143.207.1.42.1137425578.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>


> Be careful with the Hong Kong sellers... many are probably reliable, but I
> won & paid for a batch of Red/Blue bicolor LEDs from the seller "*
> spectrumleds*<http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=spectrumleds&item=7574969754&iid=7574969754&frm=1883&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:SID>"
> 23 days ago and have had no communication and no LEDs so far... waiting
> for
> a reply to my "contact this seller" attempt, but suspecting that the money
> is gone and I will need to try again.  No point complaining to Baywatch,
> as
> they don't care the tiniest bit about ripped-off buyers as long as they
> get
> their cut of the take.
> As always check feedback and seller's history... happy hunting
>
> On 1/15/06, Colin Raffel <colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com> wrote:
>>
>> Check eBay.  There are lots of sellers from Hong Kong who sell white
>> LEDs for cheaper, they just have fairly high shipping prices.
>>
>> Here are some for 19c apiece shipped, a tiny bit cheaper...
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-100-Mega-Bright-10000mcd-3MM-White-LED-Free-
>> R_W0QQitemZ7580316357QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>>
>> Wrong size....
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-100x-Ultra-Bright-White-LEDs-5mm-
>> dia_W0QQitemZ7579578236QQcategoryZ66954QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>>
>> Give it a try.
>>
>> -Colin
>>
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2006, at 1:21 PM, xamboldt wrote:
>>
>> > Anyone know a good source for relatively cheap white LEDs? The best
>> > I found was $0.20 for 3mm here:
>> > http://www.rjmods.com/product_info.php?products_id=90
>> >
>> > But this seems so much cheaper than every place else (around $1.00/
>> > each for the cheapest), it seems kind of fishy. Has anyone heard of
>> > rjmods before?

   Hi Chris,

   I'd be very wary of cheap white LEDs.  Of course my concern is largely
centered around two issues:

   1) White "color"
   2) Color matching between LEDs.

   Most "white" LEDs that I've seen are really a "blue" color, some so
significantly so that I don't know why they don't sell them as "light
blue" LEDs and not "white".  Getting a more neutral (or warm) colored
white is difficult and not many suppliers carry them.
   I've gotten some nice warm white LEDs from this company:

   http://www.ledtronics.com

   They aren't cheap, but again, it's very hard to come by true warm white
LEDs.

   The second issue, color matching is pretty critical if you are going to
have more than one or two of these LEDs together.  My company has a
product which is lit by yellow LEDs.  We initially went with some of
the cheapest LEDs we could get our hands on, only to find out that the
manufacturer doesn't bin-sort the LEDs according to color.  So we'd
have some which were a lemon-yellow and some that were almost a dark
orange!
   So I went back through various supplier data sheets until I found one
from Agilent which are bin-sorted for color.  These were almost as
cheap as the ones we'd been using but dead-on accurate in color.

   So, just be aware that a 20 cent white LED may not get you what you
really want...

   Good luck!

   Tony
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 16 17:56:02 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:56:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Fans [was: Standalone PC synths]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601161114130.26487@yamsrv4.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20060116165602.68817.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com>

I used a (showing age) 286 computer to run Cakewark for my
  CD. I removed the power supply and installed it inside a soundproof box.
  It was hung from bungee cords, and the whole bax lined with acoustic
  foam.   It was very quiet. 286's didn't need CPU fans, and I used
  floppy drives for the data, so there is no noise unless writing.
  
  Maybe I should make a box for the Matrrix 1000...
  (and place it underground ? :^)
  
  H^) harry

Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:  Y'all should hear my Digital Keyboards Synergy when I turn it on. The fan 
sounds like a 747 taking off. ;)



-------------- next part --------------
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 16 18:05:20 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:05:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] White LED Source
In-Reply-To: <56487.143.207.1.42.1137425578.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>
Message-ID: <20060116170520.62085.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com>

I jst bought some white LEDs from a well-known
  surplus dealer. Maybe 30% of them were defective.
  The bad ones did not light up... and had a forward drop of only
  1.6V instead of the normal 3.5V (or so). Probably, they
  are static damaged.   Beware !!!
  
  I will work it out with the retailer (they are reputable) but I got
  way less yield than I needed...
  
  H^) harry

clark at andrews.edu wrote:  
> Be careful with the Hong Kong sellers... many are probably reliable, but I
> won & paid for a batch of Red/Blue bicolor LEDs from the seller "*
> spectrumleds*"
> 23 days ago and have had no communication and no LEDs so far... waiting
> for
> a reply to my "contact this seller" attempt, but suspecting that the money
> is gone and I will need to try again.  No point complaining to Baywatch,
> as
> they don't care the tiniest bit about ripped-off buyers as long as they
> get
> their cut of the take.
> As always check feedback and seller's history... happy hunting
>
> On 1/15/06, Colin Raffel  wrote:
>>
>> Check eBay.  There are lots of sellers from Hong Kong who sell white
>> LEDs for cheaper, they just have fairly high shipping prices.
>>
>> Here are some for 19c apiece shipped, a tiny bit cheaper...
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-100-Mega-Bright-10000mcd-3MM-White-LED-Free-
>> R_W0QQitemZ7580316357QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>>
>> Wrong size....
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-100x-Ultra-Bright-White-LEDs-5mm-
>> dia_W0QQitemZ7579578236QQcategoryZ66954QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>>
>> Give it a try.
>>
>> -Colin
>>
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2006, at 1:21 PM, xamboldt wrote:
>>
>> > Anyone know a good source for relatively cheap white LEDs? The best
>> > I found was $0.20 for 3mm here:
>> > http://www.rjmods.com/product_info.php?products_id=90
>> >
>> > But this seems so much cheaper than every place else (around $1.00/
>> > each for the cheapest), it seems kind of fishy. Has anyone heard of
>> > rjmods before?

   Hi Chris,

   I'd be very wary of cheap white LEDs.  Of course my concern is largely
centered around two issues:

   1) White "color"
   2) Color matching between LEDs.

   Most "white" LEDs that I've seen are really a "blue" color, some so
significantly so that I don't know why they don't sell them as "light
blue" LEDs and not "white".  Getting a more neutral (or warm) colored
white is difficult and not many suppliers carry them.
   I've gotten some nice warm white LEDs from this company:

   http://www.ledtronics.com

   They aren't cheap, but again, it's very hard to come by true warm white
LEDs.

   The second issue, color matching is pretty critical if you are going to
have more than one or two of these LEDs together.  My company has a
product which is lit by yellow LEDs.  We initially went with some of
the cheapest LEDs we could get our hands on, only to find out that the
manufacturer doesn't bin-sort the LEDs according to color.  So we'd
have some which were a lemon-yellow and some that were almost a dark
orange!
   So I went back through various supplier data sheets until I found one
from Agilent which are bin-sorted for color.  These were almost as
cheap as the ones we'd been using but dead-on accurate in color.

   So, just be aware that a 20 cent white LED may not get you what you
really want...

   Good luck!

   Tony
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




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From kenji.toyama at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 19:55:56 2006
From: kenji.toyama at gmail.com (Kenji Toyama)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:55:56 -0200
Subject: [sdiy] diy Ribbon Controller
Message-ID: <b8e746c30601161055lba93d3did8b642c2f669b2fd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,
I'm new to diy synth, but I really wanna learn some basics about building up
my own synths/controllers/whatever.
One thing that I'd love to build is a Ribbon Controler like the one in
Kurzweil K2600. I have no idea how hard is it, but I'd want to try.
Anyone with any information about this, if could share, I'd be very happy!
Thank you,
Kenji
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From elmacaco at nyc.rr.com  Mon Jan 16 20:02:27 2006
From: elmacaco at nyc.rr.com (elmacaco)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:02:27 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151926350.1993@laptop.buchty.net>
Message-ID: <004a01c61acf$6a14d360$3a39af44@santaelena>

What about that DX200 thing yamaha made a while ago?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rainer Buchty" <rainer at buchty.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY


> > Why not use an old PC .. probably ?50 worth of PC + ?50 ASIO soundcard
> > would be ample to run the FM7 as a standalone app. You can even
> > control the PC remotely from your main computer with something like
> > VNC (free cross platform software for remote graphical control) so you
> > don't need a monitor, keyboard & mouse.
>
> That's still a PC. In one way or another I require keyboard, mouse, and
> monitor -- and the whole thing requires longish booting.
>
> Plus, I still don't have a keyboard connected. (Call me old-fashioned,
> but IMO sound generator and keyboard are a non-divideable unit, even if
> I so far only have two hands and even if a keyboard takes up plenty of
> space -- I just prefer the instant playability and accessibility.)
>
> In other words: I'd like to have that thing sitting in front of me,
> looking similar to a DX7, or better, SY77 in terms of accessibility.
>
> Rainer
>
>


From fdion at cimastudios.com  Mon Jan 16 20:34:16 2006
From: fdion at cimastudios.com (fdion at cimastudios.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:34:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Fans [was: Standalone PC synths]
In-Reply-To: <20060116165602.68817.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060116165602.68817.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1137440056.43cbf53852a19@www.cimastudios.com>

Quoting Harry Bissell Jr <harrybissell at prodigy.net>:

> I used a (showing age) 286 computer to run Cakewark for my
>   CD. I removed the power supply and installed it inside a soundproof box.
>   It was hung from bungee cords, and the whole bax lined with acoustic
>   foam.   It was very quiet. 286's didn't need CPU fans, and I used
>   floppy drives for the data, so there is no noise unless writing.

I've run AMDs and Cyrix with no fans for years, they are great for that. My
latest experiment was an Athlon 64 mobile with an Opteron copper heatsink with
no fan (tricky as there is no heat spreader on the A64 mobile core). Even better
is the Via mini-itx, you can get fanless operation on those and in a footprint
small enough to hide inside a vintage keyboard. There are many fanless power
supplies that provide plenty of oomph for those.

Ciao,
Francois
--
www.cimastudios.com/fdion


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan 16 20:56:57 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 19:56:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Fans [was: Standalone PC synths]
In-Reply-To: <000e01c61acb$28b59570$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <20060116165602.68817.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> <43CBDD5E.7070804@burnit.co.uk> <000e01c61acb$28b59570$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <43CBFA89.7080905@burnit.co.uk>

They must vary, I can only just hear the transformer in mine if I put my 
ear right by it... maybe the different mains frequency makes a difference?

Seb


JH. wrote:

>I guess Harry means the humming power transformer ... awfull.
>Same on the Xpander.
>
>JH.
>
>  
>
>>Your Matrix 1000 has a fan?
>>Or do you just not like the sound coming from the audio out socket? :)
>>
>>Seb
>>
>>
>>Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I used a (showing age) 286 computer to run Cakewark for my
>>>CD. I removed the power supply and installed it inside a soundproof box.
>>>It was hung from bungee cords, and the whole bax lined with acoustic
>>>foam.   It was very quiet. 286's didn't need CPU fans, and I used
>>>floppy drives for the data, so there is no noise unless writing.
>>>
>>>Maybe I should make a box for the Matrrix 1000...
>>>(and place it underground ? :^)
>>>
>>>H^) harry
>>>
>>>*/Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>/* wrote:
>>>
>>>    Y'all should hear my Digital Keyboards Synergy when I turn it on.
>>>    The fan
>>>    sounds like a 747 taking off. ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


From psnow at magma.ca  Mon Jan 16 21:01:52 2006
From: psnow at magma.ca (Peter Snow)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:01:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] diy Ribbon Controller
References: <b8e746c30601161055lba93d3did8b642c2f669b2fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43CBFBB0.F089385B@magma.ca>

Try this:

http://www.paia.com/LabNotes/index.htm

Peter


Kenji Toyama wrote:
> 
> Hi guys,
> I'm new to diy synth, but I really wanna learn some basics about building up
> my own synths/controllers/whatever.
> One thing that I'd love to build is a Ribbon Controler like the one in
> Kurzweil K2600. I have no idea how hard is it, but I'd want to try.
> Anyone with any information about this, if could share, I'd be very happy!
> Thank you,
> Kenji


From patchell at cox.net  Mon Jan 16 21:50:06 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:50:06 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] switching audio lines using a DG211 analog switch?
In-Reply-To: <p06200702bff1aea0b9bd@[171.64.60.224]>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060116124844.02921088@pop.west.cox.net>

The DG211 is a very versatile analog switch.  Very little bleed through and 
cross talk at audio frequencies...and you can place it anywhere you want as 
long as you don't exceed the power supply rails.

At 12:16 PM 1/16/2006 -0800, Dino Leone wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I would like to switch between pairs (LP vs BP from state-variable 
>filters) of outputs using DG211 analog switches. Now I'm wondering if the 
>switch would generate any noise (like bleed-through etc)? Or is that no 
>problem? Also, should I put the switch after the last opamp, which scales 
>the audio signal up to 10Vpp, or should I instead have the switch before 
>that last inverting amplifier (which would maybe amplify switch noise)?
>
>Many thanks in advance,
>
>Dino
>
>
>
>

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************



From WeAreAs1 at aol.com  Mon Jan 16 21:57:53 2006
From: WeAreAs1 at aol.com (WeAreAs1 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:57:53 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
Message-ID: <d2.365fff3d.30fd62d1@aol.com>


In a message dated 1/16/06 11:08:59 AM, elmacaco at nyc.rr.com writes:


> What about that DX200 thing yamaha made a while ago?
> 

That's a really great box -- one of the coolest products Yamaha ever made.   
It's able to load any six-operator Yamaha FM patch via sysex, and it has a 
bunch of very useful real-time controls on the front panel for editing and 
morphing the sound -- including an excellent multimode resonant filter.   Built-in 
effects, too, including very cool distortion.   All the panel controls send and 
receive MIDI data, so your edits and movements can be recorded into a 
sequencer.   Of course, it has its own internal 303/606-styled groove sequencer, too, 
and built-in drum sounds, so it's pretty much a rave DJ in a box.   It does, 
however, work just as well for non-acid styles of music.

The only down side is that you can't do full, operator-specific detailed 
patch editing from the front panel.   For that, you still need to edit from an 
external DX or SY synth, or from a computer-based DX editor.   The front panel 
knobs do give you a lot of editing control, though -- most of the basic 
additive-synth type editing stuff, kind of like an FM-based Prophet V or Minimoog.   
With the tens of thousands of FM patches that are floating around on the web, 
you're bound to find a sound that pleases you -- or at least distracts you for 
a few months.

Mike B.

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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 16 23:02:59 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:02:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Fans [was: Standalone PC synths]
In-Reply-To: <87441170601161342o3660b491u7fa00f244f49df31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060116220300.49284.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes (you are wrong on this :^)
  
  The problem is two-fold.
  
  1) The transformer magnetic field is coupled to the steel, causing a
  induced vibration
  
  2) The transformer core itself is magentostrictive (well they ALL are but this
  one is worse than most)... so the core itself will buzz anyway
  
  The fixes might be
  
  1) Aluminum top and bottom
  
  2) High quality Toroid transformer
  
  3) External power supply retrofit (wall wart anyone)
  
  (or 4... just kick back and BITCH about it... :^)
  
  H^) harry

Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com> wrote:  On 1/16/06, WeAreAs1 at aol.com <WeAreAs1 at aol.com> wrote:  
In a message dated 1/16/06 10:00:15 AM,   seb at burnit.co.uk writes:


  Your Matrix 1000 has a fan?
Or do you just not like the sound coming from the audio out socket? :)  


Matrix  1000's (pretty much all of them) make an annoying mechanical  noise.  It's the power transformer, vibrating at  60/120/180/240/etc. Hz, mechanically coupled to the metal case, using  it as a resonating box.  Nice design, Oberheim.  

Mike B. 
  
I would think it would be pretty simple to mount the  transformer on some rubber pads and eliminate the problem altogether. A  seperate grounding wire could be added if necessary. Am I wrong on this?
 
  
Tim (wrong once or twice in the last decade) Servo
-- 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein 
  

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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 16 23:33:48 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:33:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Synth module in non-synth app
In-Reply-To: <43CC1725.5000809@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20060116223348.34999.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com>

Possible... but using a lamp like that would be a huge hit in
  system reliability.  Lamp can burn out / damage from vibration.
  
  next ?   :^P
  
  H^) harry

Oren Leavitt <obl64 at ix.netcom.com> wrote:  You might try a simple 12V incandecent lamp in series with the solenoid 
coil.
The inrush current to the cold lamp will give the coil the full 12V 
"kick" it needs to start. As the lamp warms up, its resistance will 
rise, resulting in reduced voltage across the coil.
Choose a lamp the settles to your desired 6 to 8 volts.

Hope that helps,
Oren

Nick Liebrecht wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I need to make a circuit to protect some solenoids in a flow cell  from 
> getting too hot.  Basically, I need to apply 12V to the solenoid  coil 
> for about 100ms, and then bring it down to about 6 to 8V.  I  measured 
> the maximum current through the solenoid to be around  225ma.  I was 
> thinking of using an ADSR to create the proper voltage  transients, 
> followed by an emitter follower (using a PN2222A,  Ic=500ma) to provide 
> enough power to actuate the solenoids.
> 
> I need six of these, and i was thinking of using the ASM-1 ADSR as a  
> starting point, replacing all the pots with the appropriate resistor  
> values for the timing and sustain level I need.
> 
> Does this sound like it will work???
> 
> Thanks,
> Nick Liebrecht
> nick.liebrecht at gmail.com
> 


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From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Tue Jan 17 01:11:12 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:11:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] SV: Standalone PC synths 
In-Reply-To: <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <20060117001112.70597.qmail@web25513.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

--- "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net> skrev:

> I wish I could have my Steinberg Grand 2, or my M-Tron as a standalone
> version!
> Too bad that the Grand won't run on a cheap PC. I have just bought 2GBytes
> of RAM
> to make it work without glitches.

Its not always ram amount that does the glitches
many times its device drivers , and colliding ones!

> But it would really be great to have it stand-alone. I love the VNC idea,
> which would
> make monitor and mouse and keyboard dispensable. But more than tat, it would
> be
> important that this PC would boot and go straight into the VST program with 
just  switching the machine on.

There is site on the web that gives gudiances to tune a XP system
for music, i tried it on a Xp based PC, spent about 2 days tuning system
(meaning, deleting wast proportions of installed system
drivers, and crancking others) the Xp system now boots in less then 6 sec! I
use ASIO4all as generic driver on this system
works splendid.

KD


From seancostello2003 at comcast.net  Tue Jan 17 01:15:49 2006
From: seancostello2003 at comcast.net (Sean Costello)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:15:49 -0800
Subject: Frequency Shifter (was: Re: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp substitution, thru-zero BODE???)
References: <20060116234153.12455.qmail@web25512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001001c61afb$2c3aead0$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>

Or software! (running on a DSP for a hardware module)

Things like low noise multipliers and through-zero oscillators are trivial
to program in DSP. The phase differencing network is a little more
difficult, but I have published the code for doing a 12th order network in
the Csound source code, and the same technique could be extended to a
digital realization of JH's more complicated network.

Sean Costello

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "karl dalen" <dalenkarl at yahoo.se>
To: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>; "phil" <philmacnutt at mac.com>;
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:41 PM
Subject: SV: Frequency Shifter (was: Re: [sdiy] Electronotes, op-amp
substitution, thru-zero BODE???)


> Or go the FM a delay route!
>
> KD
>
> > > I checked Jurgen's site, and indeed you are right, it is all there,
just
> > too
> > > much of it!  I think I counted like 9 different circuits that I guess
> > would
> > > all have to be transferred to PCB.
> >
> > Really, you don't want a pcb for this. (Unless you plan to put it into
> > production commecially, in which case we should talk about it anyway
8-) )
> >
> > Just do it like I did: Use plenty of Veroboard area and solder the
> > components
> > such that the lay out reflects the topology of the *schematics*. That's
the
> > secret to easy troubleshooting as well.
> >
> > BTW, I don't think you really need a thru-zero VCO for a Frequency
Shifter.
> > It's more important that your VCO can go down to very low frequencies
> > (<0.1 Hz), for these special chorus / infinite phasing effects.
>


From ka4hjh at gte.net  Tue Jan 17 03:09:18 2006
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:09:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060117113401.040134b0@mail.all-electric.com>
References: <20060116235617.11623.qmail@web25501.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20060117113401.040134b0@mail.all-electric.com>
Message-ID: <p05111a07bff201d583a0@[192.168.1.101]>

>if you really
>let your brain go to town on it, it's own filtering system will start to
>pull out sounds and even voices from the noise. All it takes is for the
>noise to be randomly uneven and your brain (if it's doing it's job
>properly) will start pulling all kinds of amazing things out of it.

It really helps to be sleep-deprived at the time. The effect is rather
similar to the "party" at the end of "Welcome To The Machine". You could
swear you hear voices but they're not saying anything.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Jan 17 03:10:49 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 03:10:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
References: <20060116235617.11623.qmail@web25501.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20060117113401.040134b0@mail.all-electric.com>
Message-ID: <003001c61b0b$3fd40e90$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

> One of the things that suffers of tinnitus do is to have headphones which
> play a more pleasant but masking sound. JH, if you think fans are bad,
> imagine having tinnitus. You can't get away from it because it's in your
> head.

I have / had a slight tinnitus. 8kHz, 14dB above the threshold of hearing,
on one ear.
It's _mostly_ compensated, i.e. my brain filters it out.
I went thru hell for 1/2 year, though.

When exposed to loud noise, the tinnitus tends to come back temporarily.
Maybe that's why I'm so obsessed with silence.

Oh yes, good old Edgar Allan. I loved to read his stories  when I was young.
And I don't have a clock in the studio either. And no heart beating in my
basement floor, honestly!  8-)

JH.


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan 17 03:25:57 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:25:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
References: <20060116235617.11623.qmail@web25501.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20060117113401.040134b0@mail.all-electric.com>
Message-ID: <43CC55B5.84347809@prodigy.net>

Batz Goodfortune wrote: <snipp'd>

> There's one other thing I've discovered about fan noise if you listen
> carefully. Because of the way the brain works in interpreting sound on a
> kind of fourier basis, (I'll gloss over the mechanics here.) if you really
> let your brain go to town on it, it's own filtering system will start to
> pull out sounds and even voices from the noise. All it takes is for the
> noise to be randomly uneven and your brain (if it's doing it's job
> properly) will start pulling all kinds of amazing things out of it. I had
> long thought about doing this in a DSP. But I have no idea how to achieve
> that. I'm not even entirely sure what happens for my brain to lock in on
> the hidden structures in the noise. But it is fascinating and it can keep
> me entertained for hours. Well minutes at a time anyway. Fun for all the
> family.

LOL. I hear that (very same thing). When I was a kid, in the summer,
late in the
day we'd have a fan going in a long hallway. My parents would take a
nap, and the
whole house would be totally silent, except for the fan. I'd sit in the
chair...
stare at the dust-motes from the setting sun... and basically zone out
on the
fan noise.  There would be this drone, but also other tones that would
come
and go. You could try to pick them out, or just sit back and enter an
alternate
reality.

Later in the 60's this would be called "meditation"... still later it
would be called "drugs"   :^P  The effect is real, nonetheless...

I'm sure there are a class of people, such as Batz and myself for whom
this
might be music. Others, employed to keep the aforementioned off the
streets.

I got some CD from Phil Hendricks (over at AH).
atlatl: pzlon vent http://cloaca.net/

His stuff reminds me very much of this sort of thing. If you want poppy
dance tracks, stay far away.  Each of the cuts will either bore you to
tears (class two,
above). or evoke the feeling of a lazy summer afternoon... lying in the
sun...
next to a pond... on some far distant ALIEN planet (class one, above). 
Pretty cool if you like that.
(I was listening because of some comments that the CD has blown some
tweeters... I wanted to find out HOW.  I can only hear about half of the
music... the other half
is ultrasonic to my aged ears :^)

I too... like rain on the roof. I even have a new metal roof on the
house !!!
It 'could' be a little louder...

H^) harry


From seancostello2003 at comcast.net  Tue Jan 17 05:50:04 2006
From: seancostello2003 at comcast.net (Sean Costello)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:50:04 -0800
Subject: Standalone PC synths (was: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY)
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <006801c61b21$823f1200$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>

What about a Mac Mini? Not quite fanless, but it is very small, has a fairly
quiet fan, and can run in kiosk mode if you know what you are doing (I don't
know how to do it, but I know it can be done). Slap a USB LCD on there, put
it in a rack, and there you go. Use MAX/MSP to host VST plugins however you
would like. Or run GPL software like Supercollider.

I know that there are some inexpensive Mini-ITX and Nano-ITX motherboards
out there, that can run fanless with the VIA processors. However, these have
pretty low clock speeds (around 800 MHz for the fanless version), and
apparently have fairly poor floating point performance. Nevertheless, if you
want to throw together a dedicated synth based on PC plugins, using one of
these boards with a Flash hard drive could get you a VST host with no moving
parts. Not sure if the hard drive would be big enough for the programs that
use huge sample banks.

A few links for the above:

http://www.heavyliftmusic.com/archives/2005/05/building_a_mobi.html (rack
mounted Mac Mini for running Guitar Rig and Logic)

http://www.mini-itx.com (lots of links for small fanless computer formats)

Sean Costello

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>
To: "Seb Francis" <seb at burnit.co.uk>; "Rainer Buchty" <rainer at buchty.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Standalone PC synths (was: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY)


> I wish I could have my Steinberg Grand 2, or my M-Tron as a standalone
> version!
> Too bad that the Grand won't run on a cheap PC. I have just bought 2GBytes
> of RAM
> to make it work without glitches.
>
> It's funny that, while I've never been interested in hardware samplers or
> ROMlers,
> and never even taken a second glance at virtual analogue software, I'm
> really hooked on
> big sample playing programs. When I look back over the last month, I've
been
> playing
> more "grand piano" than synthesizers. I even think about taking lessons.
>
> But it would really be great to have it stand-alone. I love the VNC idea,
> which would
> make monitor and mouse and keyboard dispensable. But more than tat, it
would
> be
> important that this PC would boot and go straight into the VST program
with
> just
> switching the machine on.
>
> Well, I'm only thinking out loud. With my fan-less PC in the studio, it's
> fine just like
> it is.
>
> JH.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Seb Francis" <seb at burnit.co.uk>
> To: "Rainer Buchty" <rainer at buchty.net>
> Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
>
>
> > Why not use an old PC .. probably ?50 worth of PC + ?50 ASIO soundcard
> > would be ample to run the FM7 as a standalone app.  You can even control
> > the PC remotely from your main computer with something like VNC (free
> > cross platform software for remote graphical control) so you don't need
> > a monitor, keyboard & mouse.
> >
> > Seb
> >
> >
> > Rainer Buchty wrote:
> >
> > >>Or if you have a PC, try the Native Instruments FM7 .. it's like a DX7
> > >>with an easy to program user interface!  And seeing as through the DX7
> > >>was digital anyway, sound-wise this is a very accurate software
> > >>emulation (far closer than any 'virtual analog' softsynths get..).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >I still wish the FM-7 was available as a standalone machine... Without
> > >having to care about the Windows stuff, some few 100MHz ARM would
> > >probably be sufficient, maybe enhanced with an extra DSP section in
case
> > >FM-7 makes use of MMX.
> > >
> > >Rainer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 17 07:06:54 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 06:06:54 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Lead Free PCBs
Message-ID: <43CC897E.8070500@burnit.co.uk>

Some good info and discussion about lead free PCBs here ..
http://eurocircuits.info/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=41

Euro Circuits (the cheapest small run PCB manufacturer I know of in 
Europe) are using Electroless Ag deposit for their boards which 
apparently has a shelf life of 12 months (not so good!)

PCB Pool (the other PCB manufacturer I use) are using lead free HAL with 
SN100C solder.  I think this is meant to have a longer shelf life, but I 
can't find any specific information about this.

By the way, anyone in Europe know of any other manufacturers for 
prototype/small run PCBs?

And, anyone who is making small run SDIY PCBs to sell, what lead free 
finish are you using to get a decent shelf life?

Seb

P.S. I really hope not to start the whole RoHS discussion again, I'm 
just looking for practical ways to co-exist with it :)



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue Jan 17 09:03:08 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:03:08 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Lead Free PCBs
References: <43CC897E.8070500@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001b01c61b3c$74c086c0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

Of all the possible problems, I wouldn't expect the 
tarnishing of unused PCBs to be significant.
Because, you can simply wire brush them
(whatever they are made of).
And, so far as silver is concerned, if you
keep it in a ziplock bag, I doubt it will
tarnish.

paul perry Melbourne Australia

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Seb Francis" 
> Euro Circuits (the cheapest small run PCB manufacturer I know of in 
> Europe) are using Electroless Ag deposit for their boards which 
> apparently has a shelf life of 12 months (not so good!)


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Tue Jan 17 10:56:34 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:56:34 +0100
Subject: Standalone PC synths (was: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY)
In-Reply-To: <006801c61b21$823f1200$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <006801c61b21$823f1200$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>
Message-ID: <20060117095634.GA10492@atc5.vermine.org>

On 2006-01-16 20:50 -0800, Sean Costello wrote:

> What about a Mac Mini? Not quite fanless, but it is very small, has a
> fairly quiet fan, and can run in kiosk mode if you know what you are
> doing (I don't know how to do it, but I know it can be done). Slap a
> USB LCD on there, put it in a rack, and there you go. Use MAX/MSP to
> host VST plugins however you would like. Or run GPL software like
> Supercollider.
> 
> I know that there are some inexpensive Mini-ITX and Nano-ITX
> motherboards out there, that can run fanless with the VIA processors.
> However, these have pretty low clock speeds (around 800 MHz for the
> fanless version), and apparently have fairly poor floating point
> performance. Nevertheless, if you want to throw together a dedicated
> synth based on PC plugins, using one of these boards with a Flash hard
> drive could get you a VST host with no moving parts. Not sure if the
> hard drive would be big enough for the programs that use huge sample
> banks.

I'm typing this on a 800 MHz Cyrix/VIA C3 system, the same
processor that is on the Mini-ITX VIA motherboards. It's not as
fast as the clock frequency suggests. You can watch films, play
Quake 3 (at least the not-too-complex maps), but it's roughly an
order of magnitude slower than a middle-range current
processor[1].

I think you'll get the best results by having two machines. A
powerful one, locked away in another room and a diskless X
terminal based on a VIA C3 or some other fanless processor.
Substitute "VNC client" for "X terminal" if you're running a
non-Unix.

[1] Quick comparison between C3 800 and Athlon 64 3200 :
C++ compilation    :  5.7 times slower
primes(6)          :  9.5 times slower
additive synthesis : 12.7 times slower

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 17 13:28:49 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:28:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Lead Free PCBs
In-Reply-To: <001b01c61b3c$74c086c0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
References: <43CC897E.8070500@burnit.co.uk> <001b01c61b3c$74c086c0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <43CCE301.3070604@burnit.co.uk>

Euro Circuits say..

"The layer is thin and porous (100 times thinner than a human hair).  
Handling and storage becomes more important. Aging treatments for 6 
Hours at 155?C result in significant degrading in wetting."

So I'm not so sure about the wire brush.  And, yes definitely sealing 
the PCBs from air is a good idea, but the supplier of the Immersion 
Silver process in question here says this:

"Silver will discolour in contact with sulfides and chlorides. PCB's 
should be supplied in sealed plastic bags not containing PVC and 
Silicagel. If these guidelines are followed, the shelflife for PCB's 
with the Sterling Silver immersion Silver Finish is minimum 12 months"

So they are saying that even sealing in bags the shelflife is only a 
"minimum 12 months".

Seb



Paul Perry wrote:

>Of all the possible problems, I wouldn't expect the 
>tarnishing of unused PCBs to be significant.
>Because, you can simply wire brush them
>(whatever they are made of).
>And, so far as silver is concerned, if you
>keep it in a ziplock bag, I doubt it will
>tarnish.
>
>paul perry Melbourne Australia
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Seb Francis" 
>  
>
>>Euro Circuits (the cheapest small run PCB manufacturer I know of in 
>>Europe) are using Electroless Ag deposit for their boards which 
>>apparently has a shelf life of 12 months (not so good!)
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue Jan 17 13:45:03 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:45:03 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Lead Free PCBs
References: <43CC897E.8070500@burnit.co.uk> <001b01c61b3c$74c086c0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43CCE301.3070604@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <006101c61b63$d68fd320$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

Fair enough!
But, my idea with the wire brush was to
rip the silver off & then solder it.
It sounds pretty bad all round... if you
only get a guaranteed 12 months AFTER plating 
with a 'thin & porous' silver layer & ALSO 
keeping in a non-PVC plastic bag, what
would happen if it was left unprotected??
Maybe we'll have to store them under 
paraffin, like you do lumps of soduim metal ;D
I was just thinking about putting them in the 
freezer, but then I remembered that tin behaves 
VERY strangely in cold conditions!

paul perry melbourne australia

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Seb Francis" 
> So they are saying that even sealing in bags the shelflife is only a 
> "minimum 12 months".


From timexheater at comcast.net  Tue Jan 17 14:21:27 2006
From: timexheater at comcast.net (NATE!)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:21:27 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] oxygen8 hackery
Message-ID: <001201c61b68$ec463290$6401a8c0@NATHANTHIRMSZ>

finished repacking the oxygen8 guts...

http://www.robot-dreams.com/images/midinoisebox.gif

there's no cover on the front so i can hook up the keys or LCD if i want.
and i've got room for the pitch bender or mod wheel so i can cram one or
both of those in it too if i want. rock and roll. not done drawing on it lol

i'll be using it for laptop noise stuff [audiomulch or clavia g2 nord
modular demo] running into a mixer with a few pedals in feedback loops
etcetc... as well as just normal midi knob box for my micro modular and
anything that i'm too lazy to lug my behringer BCF to.

satanic usb midi controllers

- nate


From starpause at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 14:50:53 2006
From: starpause at gmail.com (STRPSE_K9D _)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:50:53 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] analoge audio to digital s/pdif (dac schematics?)
Message-ID: <4c1ea3d50601170550s5c9cf4fet7e39d12dcd9abe17@mail.gmail.com>

i want to use the s/pdif audio inputs on an "maudio fast track pro"
sound card as additional analoge line ins, but it seems like all the
gear to convert analog signals to s/pdif is aimed at hifi professional
studios.

so has anyone seen any schematics around a DAC or something for the job?

the maudio card has rca/coax s/pdif inputs, if that matters at all (i
know the s/pdif signal is the same regardless of the interface, but
i'm not looking for toslink or ttl hardware ... though i have seen
schematics for coax<->ttl bla bla bla ;)

i realize this isn't entirely synth related, but i want more imputs
for my x0xb0x jams =)

thanks in advance for any pointers

<3
j.0rdan

--
netlabel: http://mp3death.us/
fm broadcast: http://cockroaches.get2.us/


From synpro at networld.at  Tue Jan 17 15:04:35 2006
From: synpro at networld.at (Peter Ullrich)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:04:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] analoge audio to digital s/pdif (dac schematics?)
In-Reply-To: <4c1ea3d50601170550s5c9cf4fet7e39d12dcd9abe17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c1ea3d50601170550s5c9cf4fet7e39d12dcd9abe17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1137506675.43ccf97324b44@webmail.networld.at>


> i want to use the s/pdif audio inputs on an "maudio fast track pro"
> sound card as additional analoge line ins, but it seems like all the
> gear to convert analog signals to s/pdif is aimed at hifi professional
> studios.
> 
> so has anyone seen any schematics around a DAC or something for the job?

You need an ADC and not a DAC.

One of the cheapest solution (but not the smallest) is the use of a minidisk 
recorder. Analog in and Digital out.
Somt minidisk recorders even offer a digital noise reduction. My pioneer
has this feature: a very nice noise reduction that does not change the signal 
itself too much. (changes beside a small noise reduction not hearable).

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                               Ing. Peter Ullrich   
	               Hardware & Software Developer  /  Electronic Musician
                               Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt
   .oooO           
   (   )   Oooo.   
    \ (    (   )   
-----\_)----) /--------------------------------------------------------
           (_/




--------------------------------------
Ein Service von http://www.networld.at


From synthbaron at tampabay.rr.com  Tue Jan 17 15:17:06 2006
From: synthbaron at tampabay.rr.com (SB)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:17:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Lead Free PCBs
In-Reply-To: <006101c61b63$d68fd320$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
References: <43CC897E.8070500@burnit.co.uk> <001b01c61b3c$74c086c0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43CCE301.3070604@burnit.co.uk> <006101c61b63$d68fd320$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <43CCFC62.1020205@tampabay.rr.com>

Paul Perry wrote:
> Fair enough!
> But, my idea with the wire brush was to
> rip the silver off & then solder it.
> It sounds pretty bad all round... if you
> only get a guaranteed 12 months AFTER plating 
> with a 'thin & porous' silver layer & ALSO 
> keeping in a non-PVC plastic bag, what
> would happen if it was left unprotected??
> Maybe we'll have to store them under 
> paraffin, like you do lumps of soduim metal ;D
> I was just thinking about putting them in the 
> freezer, but then I remembered that tin behaves 
> VERY strangely in cold conditions!

All you need is one of these:

http://foodsaver.jardendirect.com/

And if you're really paranoid, throw one of these in there too :

http://www.multisorb.com/products/oxygen/index_html/packets/freshpax_html


From keninverse at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 15:31:52 2006
From: keninverse at gmail.com (ken mosley)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 08:31:52 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Lead Free PCBs
In-Reply-To: <001b01c61b3c$74c086c0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
References: <43CC897E.8070500@burnit.co.uk>
	 <001b01c61b3c$74c086c0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
Message-ID: <1820a14d0601170631o252956deu58928bbc5cbd9daf@mail.gmail.com>

I had a batch of PCBs done and the plating started to tarnish after just 2
weeks of sitting out of the vacuum sealed packs.  No probs though, since all
I did was use an eraser to remove the tarnish.


ken m.
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan 17 16:45:14 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:45:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Power supply enclosure - heat buidup question.
In-Reply-To: <013801c61b6c$d39827e0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>
Message-ID: <20060117154514.19906.qmail@web51008.mail.yahoo.com>

I use a 10" x 6" x 4" extruded aluminum box... with
  a +/-15V 0.8A supply bolted to one end panel. Its Aluminum...
  so the heat transfer will be better. If you maximuze the contact
  area and maybe add heatsink compound (I did NOT)... It
  would probably work OK ...
  
  ... unless ambient temps are very high (Stage ? Outdoor summer ??)
  or you leave it on for many hours.
  
  Check the electrolytic capacitor temperature  rating (and life extimates)
  
  If its (say) 2000 Hrs ar 85C, you can double that every 10C less. Its a long
  time, I'll bet :^P
  
  H^) harry

Julian <julian at 22host24.com> wrote:              Im considering an enclosure for my power-one (hbb   1.5A, i think) power supply.
   
  Ive got one of those ex military amo cans here,   which would fit nicely.  Im thinking i could punch some XLRs into the top,   and an IEC into the side, and itlld make a nice setup for my modular (which is   housed in skb popup cases, so no safe psu mounting point)
   
  Thatlld all work out nicely, but, im pretty   concerned about heat buildup.  The can is all metal, so i could *try* and   mate as much of the power-one's body to the can as i can, thereby using the can   as a heatsink, but its not exactly flat and smooth inside.
   
  I really dont want to add *another* fan to my   enviroment.  I could just drill sets of holes about the can, i guess, but   theyd have to be less then finger size...
   
  Maybee i should just try it out, and see what   happens, but am i wasting my time trying?
   
  Cheers, Julian


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From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Jan 17 17:11:04 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:11:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
Message-ID: <200601171711.k0HHB4p26295@linux7>

A 4046 PLL will do this.  There are caveats, however, a PLL does not respond
instantaneously to input frequency changes, but it can be made very fast (I
have a PLL that does several freq. multiplied outputs, and it is acceptably
fast and tracks over 6 octaves).  There are pole & response time issues that
are made worse by multiplying, but 8 is a pretty small number.  My own
circuit does x12 with outputs at 1F, 1.5F, 2F, 3F, 4F, 6F, and 12F.

At least a square wave is easy for something like a 4046 to track.

To make it multiply the input frequency by integer N, put a divide by N
digital counter in the feedback loop.  Connect the PLL VCO output to the
input of the counter, and the output of the counter then feeds the loop's
filter circuit.  This will force the PLL's VCO to run N times faster in order
to synchronize with the input signal.  Corresponding changes to the VCO range
resistors are necessary, but easy to compute.

Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Hi all.
>
>Does any one know of a simple circuit that will produce a square or pulse
>wave at 8 times the original input frequency? The idea is to use the
>different waveforms from the EFM LFO5A staircase generator through a VC lag
>to produce new waveforms. The staircase can produce some quite odd
>repetitive waveforms if you tap into different points in the resistor
>network on the 74LS93 outputs, but they are at 1/8th the clock frequency. if
>using it with a Square wave VCO, the clock would need to be multiplied by 8
>to be at the same frequency as the original.
>
>Any ideas anyone?
>
>Dave (just having removed sheep crap from the brake pedal:-)
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.


From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Tue Jan 17 17:22:18 2006
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:22:18 +0000
Subject: Natural sounds  - was[sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <200601171530.k0HFUwp17781@linux7>
Message-ID: <BFF2CA3A.503C%davekendall@ntlworld.com>

Well actually, as it's a day off, I've just been for a quick walk in the
tiny hills near my place, and yes it does do you good. The thinking time is
a bonus too......

:-)

Dave


on 17/1/06 14:30, Scott Gravenhorst at music.maker at gte.net wrote:

>> I actually had this slightly different method in mind:
>> 
>> Get my ass up, leave the synths and soldering iron behind for an hour, and
>> walk 
>> thru the woods instead. :P
> 
> It has the "side benefit" of improving one's physical health as well.  It's
> amazing what even 1/2 hour of walking, every day, will do.  The advent of
> electronics seems to have increased my "ass time".  It took diabetes, a heart
> attack and quadruple bypass surgery to wake me up.  So if any of you are doing
> this "sit on your ass all day" thing, this should be a wake up call for you
> too.
> 
> 
> -----


From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Jan 17 17:44:22 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:44:22 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
Message-ID: <200601171744.k0HHiMp07600@linux7>

Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
>> It's a hell of a lot easier to start out with an 8X square wave and divide it
>> down to 1X than to generate an 8X from a 1X signal.
>
>I'd worried about that, not ever having seen frequency multipliers anywhere
>in synth diy sites.....

http://home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/4046pll.html  I forgot to include the URL.

I say that it tracks over 6 octaves, but it might do more, I don't know, that's
all I tested.

>
>> Off the 
>> top of my head the way I'd do it is leading and falling edge triggers
>> triggering one shots of the proper period. You'd have to have 3 levels of
>> those though.
>
>I guess there might be a risk with successive trigger delays?, and changing
>voltages probably would complicate matters even further. Hmmm...
>
>
>Dave
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.


From HA.Synth at t-online.de  Tue Jan 17 17:46:49 2006
From: HA.Synth at t-online.de (HA.Synth at t-online.de)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:46:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 3280 from Futurlec
In-Reply-To: <43B96D9F.805@oldcrows.net>
References: <200512311517.jBVFHop03187@linux7> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601011422110.23917@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu> <43B96D9F.805@oldcrows.net>
Message-ID: <200601171746.49565.HA.Synth@t-online.de>

For the guys in Germany/Europe. I ordererd the parts from Futurlec 06.01.07. 
They arrived today. Delivery time ten days. Ordered in USA. Bill was in AUD. 
Sended from Beijing (China). Transported with DHL (German firm). The world is 
a village. For the germans: you have to pay "Einf?hrungsumsatzsteuer" and 
"Zoll".

HA


From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 18:10:15 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:10:15 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
In-Reply-To: <BFF2CF87.503F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <BFF2CF87.503F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <87441170601170910k7c178b54jdb245ea000b3eab2@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/17/06, Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> Does any one know of a simple circuit that will produce a square or pulse
> wave at 8 times the original input frequency? The idea is to use the
> different waveforms from the EFM LFO5A staircase generator through a VC
> lag
> to produce new waveforms. The staircase can produce some quite odd
> repetitive waveforms if you tap into different points in the resistor
> network on the 74LS93 outputs, but they are at 1/8th the clock frequency.
> if
> using it with a Square wave VCO, the clock would need to be multiplied by
> 8
> to be at the same frequency as the original.
>
> Any ideas anyone?
>
> Dave (just having removed sheep crap from the brake pedal:-)
>
>
8X sounds like a pretty tall order. You'll probably have some luck with a
PLL (search the recent archives, I'm pretty sure this topic came up
recently). You might also try using a sawtooth wave instead. Run it through
a 3-bit A/D and use the LSB as the 8X clock. This is a little like the
technique Blacet uses to clock the Mini-Wave (although they use a higher
resolution A/D).


Tim (short order) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan 17 18:27:16 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:27:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
In-Reply-To: <BFF2CF87.503F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <20060117172716.79975.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com>

If you have a sawtooth wave you could run it through
  a number of comparators, and make pulses each time one goes
  high. Combine the pulses and you have frequency multiplication.
  I think that this has been done with an LM3914 bargraph chip.
  
  iirc it was Grant Richter who did it...
  
  The Wiard/Blacet MiniWave uses a similar frequency multiplication
  technique...
  
  H^) harry  (can't say more, or they have to kill me :^)

Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:  Hi all.

Does any one know of a simple circuit that will produce a square or pulse
wave at 8 times the original input frequency? The idea is to use the
different waveforms from the EFM LFO5A staircase generator through a VC lag
to produce new waveforms. The staircase can produce some quite odd
repetitive waveforms if you tap into different points in the resistor
network on the 74LS93 outputs, but they are at 1/8th the clock frequency. if
using it with a Square wave VCO, the clock would need to be multiplied by 8
to be at the same frequency as the original.

Any ideas anyone?

Dave (just having removed sheep crap from the brake pedal:-)



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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 17 18:50:07 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:50:07 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
In-Reply-To: <20060117172716.79975.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <BFF2CF87.503F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
 <20060117172716.79975.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060117104904.03433710@mail.earthlink.net>

At 10:27 AM 1/17/06, Harry Bissell Jr wrote:
>If you have a sawtooth wave you could run it through
>a number of comparators, and make pulses each time one goes
>high. Combine the pulses and you have frequency multiplication.
>I think that this has been done with an LM3914 bargraph chip.
>
>iirc it was Grant Richter who did it...
>
>The Wiard/Blacet MiniWave uses a similar frequency multiplication
>technique...


Also:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ijfritz/pm_cir3.htm 


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 17 20:36:41 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:36:41 +0000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
Message-ID: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk>

This reply was meant for the list I think ...

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff
Date: 	Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:54:49 -0600
From: 	Pat Kammerer <spivkurl at wearerecords.com>
Reply-To: 	Pat Kammerer <spivkurl at wearerecords.com>
To: 	Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
References: 	<20060113225527.54469.qmail at web51005.mail.yahoo.com> 
<200601151622.26508.rtellason at blazenet.net> 
<008901c61a1d$6a773990$0200a8c0 at jhsilent> 
<200601151700.57842.rtellason at blazenet.net> 
<009901c61a23$34cbd930$0200a8c0 at jhsilent> 
<43CAED40.BE1D7450 at prodigy.net> <43CAF1A4.4070204 at burnit.co.uk>



----- Original Message -----
From: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff


>
> >>e transistor circuits or NE5532 or AD275 for "demanding" audio
> >>circuits,
> >>
> >>
> >
> >5532 is pretty demanding of power supply current, and low input
> >impedance
> >for best results. Have not tried the AD275... whats it like ???
> >
>
> Maybe JH means the Analog Devices OP275 ?  I've seen this one used in
> many high-end audio circuits.
>
>  From the datasheet..
> "The OP275 is the first amplifier to feature the Butler Amplifier front
> end. This new front end design combines both bipolar and JFET
> transistors to attain amplifiers with the accuracy and low noise
> performance of bipolar transistors, and the speed and sound quality of
> JFETs. Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise equals that of previous
> audio amplifiers, but at much lower supply currents."
>
> Seb

I find that at low supply voltages the OP275 distorts undesirably.  I find
that a much better alternative is the OP270.






From rainer at buchty.net  Tue Jan 17 20:39:03 2006
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:39:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Standalone PC synths (was: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY)
In-Reply-To: <006801c61b21$823f1200$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk>
 <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <006801c61b21$823f1200$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601172037140.1993@laptop.buchty.net>

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Sean Costello wrote:

>I know that there are some inexpensive Mini-ITX and Nano-ITX motherboards
>out there, that can run fanless with the VIA processors.

Since you cite mini-itx.com, there's also a Mini-ITX board suitable for 
Pentium-M which offers "more power" <grunt> for those who need.

Rainer


From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Tue Jan 17 20:44:11 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:44:11 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net> <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43CA498F.8050900@burnit.co.uk> <43CA81CC.2A9FBF1E@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <001201c61b9e$643c6460$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
To: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY


> I 'can' make the system pass the triangle wave. This has only odd
> harmonics

Doesn't a triangle wave have only even harmonics while square has only odd
harmonics?


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 17 20:55:51 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:55:51 +0000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk>


> I find that at low supply voltages the OP275 distorts undesirably.  I 
> find
> that a much better alternative is the OP270.
>
>
>
But at higher supply and signal voltages you might find the opposite is 
true - the slew rate of the OP275 is ~10 times the OP270.  The offset 
voltage and drift is however much smaller for the OP270 which might be 
useful in applications which handle pitch CVs as well as audio.

Seb



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Tue Jan 17 21:20:24 2006
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:20:24 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Ken's synthacon VCF
Message-ID: <20060117202024.5542.qmail@web26201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I've got problems; a lot of resonance distortion and
basically no feedtrough of the original signal. I've
replaced the transistors with 2N3904 / 2N3906 since i
didn't have anything else and i guess this is the root
of the problem. I was thinking that maybe i could 
compensate for the (supposedly) overdriven
amplification with replacing the 390R to V+ with a
bigger resistor or possibly the 2.2K to ground at the
emmiter of the 2N2222 at the amp.  

any thoughts?

Karl


From dave at westphila.net  Tue Jan 17 23:52:14 2006
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:52:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
In-Reply-To: <78f89520601171440o35bda47ck2aaca1eba3ee0c91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>	 <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>	 <43CA498F.8050900@burnit.co.uk> <43CA81CC.2A9FBF1E@prodigy.net>	 <001201c61b9e$643c6460$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com> <78f89520601171440o35bda47ck2aaca1eba3ee0c91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43CD751E.8000401@westphila.net>

Well, technically, the triangle contains all odds as well.  The loudness 
of the upper hamonics just falls off faster in a triangle.

Dave Moylan

Jeff Farr wrote:
> Triangle waves contain the 1st and 3rd harmonic.  Square waves contain
> all odd harmonics (to a degree).
>
> On 1/17/06, Pat Kammerer <spivkurl at wearerecords.com> wrote:
>   
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
>> To: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
>> Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
>>
>>
>>     
>>> I 'can' make the system pass the triangle wave. This has only odd
>>> harmonics
>>>       
>> Doesn't a triangle wave have only even harmonics while square has only odd
>> harmonics?
>>
>>
>>     


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Jan 18 00:22:37 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:22:37 +1100
Subject: Natural sounds - was[sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
References: <1137506376.43ccf8481d184@www.debitel.net> <BFF2B278.5032%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <b6b288a70601170801l5e6e5044kd16465619b18280a@mail.gmail.com> <b6b288a70601170837m8e29685mb951beb89257f150@mail.gmail.com> <005c01c61b87$02279040$6401a8c0@NATHANTHIRMSZ>
Message-ID: <006301c61bbc$e79a79a0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

Anyone taking a modular 'outside', a great thing to have
is a tree controlled LFO, you just get a solar cell (say 
an inch or two square) and put it in a spot where shadows 
dance across it. You need to amplify the output about x10 or 20.
Gives a totally organic kind of LFO for modulating whatever.
Anyone can talk to a tree, but only us DIY guys can get the tree to
talk back

paul 'nature boy' perry Melbourne Australia


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Wed Jan 18 02:41:03 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 02:41:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
In-Reply-To: <20060117181748.64994.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060118014103.46277.qmail@web25509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

It is infact very simple! (:-) .

Take a triangle then run trough a comparator sort of
windowing, that will extract a square of 4x frequency,
then dubble edge detecting that you get two edges for 
every one inserted, thats 8x. Think in terms of "phases"
instead of zero crossings when dealing with the triangle!

Or do a sawtoth multiplyer 8X is easy,just watch spurious edges!

--- Harry Bissell Jr <harrybissell at prodigy.net> skrev:

> The pulse rising/falling edge technique does not work beyond
>   2X.  You NEED a square wave for it to work. 

Yes it does, a dubble edge detector on a square does 4X!
Just time the Rc nets properly and it will cover 0 to 20khz
easy!

Asuming we are talking edges and not 50% squares here!

Reg
KD
   
>   It could be made to work with one-shots, but only at a single
>   frequency. Abandon this idea early....
>   
>   H^) harry
> 
> Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:   
> > It's a hell of a lot easier to start out with an 8X square wave and divide
> it
> > down to 1X than to generate an 8X from a 1X signal.
> 
> I'd worried about that, not ever having seen frequency multipliers anywhere
> in synth diy sites.....
> 
> > Off the 
> > top of my head the way I'd do it is leading and falling edge triggers
> > triggering one shots of the proper period. You'd have to have 3 levels of
> > those though.
> 
> I guess there might be a risk with successive trigger delays?, and changing
> voltages probably would complicate matters even further. Hmmm...
> 
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 


From frankentron at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 18 02:59:57 2006
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:59:57 -0500
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
In-Reply-To: <20060118014103.46277.qmail@web25509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY115-F287B44C1324B87E2656DDFB31D0@phx.gbl>

Another simple trick is to build a 20 step bar graph using LM3914s as per 
datasheet. Instead of LEDs on the outputs you tie each out high and then run 
them in sequential pairs to 8 two input XOR gates. Mix the outs of all XORs 
together for the multiplied output. Should retain 50% duty cycle quite well.

M. A. Ruberto


>From: karl dalen <dalenkarl at yahoo.se>
>To: Harry Bissell Jr <harrybissell at prodigy.net>,        Dave Kendall 
><davekendall at ntlworld.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
>Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 02:41:03 +0100 (CET)
>
>It is infact very simple! (:-) .
>
>Take a triangle then run trough a comparator sort of
>windowing, that will extract a square of 4x frequency,
>then dubble edge detecting that you get two edges for
>every one inserted, thats 8x. Think in terms of "phases"
>instead of zero crossings when dealing with the triangle!
>
>Or do a sawtoth multiplyer 8X is easy,just watch spurious edges!
>
>--- Harry Bissell Jr <harrybissell at prodigy.net> skrev:
>
> > The pulse rising/falling edge technique does not work beyond
> >   2X.  You NEED a square wave for it to work.
>
>Yes it does, a dubble edge detector on a square does 4X!
>Just time the Rc nets properly and it will cover 0 to 20khz
>easy!
>
>Asuming we are talking edges and not 50% squares here!
>
>Reg
>KD
>
> >   It could be made to work with one-shots, but only at a single
> >   frequency. Abandon this idea early....
> >
> >   H^) harry
> >
> > Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > > It's a hell of a lot easier to start out with an 8X square wave and 
>divide
> > it
> > > down to 1X than to generate an 8X from a 1X signal.
> >
> > I'd worried about that, not ever having seen frequency multipliers 
>anywhere
> > in synth diy sites.....
> >
> > > Off the
> > > top of my head the way I'd do it is leading and falling edge triggers
> > > triggering one shots of the proper period. You'd have to have 3 levels 
>of
> > > those though.
> >
> > I guess there might be a risk with successive trigger delays?, and 
>changing
> > voltages probably would complicate matters even further. Hmmm...
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Jan 18 03:32:50 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:32:50 -0500
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
References: <20060118014103.46277.qmail@web25509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43CDA8D2.6864E00@prodigy.net>

Hiya Karl (et al)


> > The pulse rising/falling edge technique does not work beyond
> >   2X.  You NEED a square wave for it to work.
> 
> Yes it does, a dubble edge detector on a square does 4X!
> Just time the Rc nets properly and it will cover 0 to 20khz
> easy!

You can get 2X by clocking the rise and fall. And lets say you
make a short pulse that can go to 20KHz (maybe its 20us or so).
Then you can count both those edges.

If you count the edges up to some integer number (like... count to
100) it will work. But if you use that as the clock for a binary
divider, it won't work anymore.  The non-symmetrical pulse will
put you right back where you started from.  

I've been there and tried that.  If you have a square wave you can
double...
go for 4x and it doesn't work  

> Asuming we are talking edges and not 50% squares here!

(yes... you're right about the correct number of edges, but it won't do
what
he's asking for :^)   (God, I wish it DID work :^)

H^) harry


From jmahoney at gate.net  Wed Jan 18 04:29:38 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:29:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Triple Ring Mod
References: <BAY115-F31EC3DBC610349F095D6A5B31D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <01da01c61bdf$698468a0$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

> While designing the PCB for my dual ringmod I found there is plenty of
room
> to add a 3rd stage. Which begs the question -  If I have 2 ringmods and
then
> use a 3rd to ringmod their outputs together will it sound interesting?
> Has anyone tried this?
> Is it worth it?
>
> M. A. Ruberto

SWAG: With the right inputs you might get nice cymbal sounds, because the
output will contain many frequencies that are not harmonically related.
(Surely a nightmare for MP3 codecs!)
--
john


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Jan 18 05:05:31 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:05:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
References: <200601180044.k0I0i9p19999@linux7>
Message-ID: <43CDBE8B.D2149CF7@prodigy.net>

The important features of the sawtooth are

1) No change in amplitude with frequency

2) No change in DC offset with frequency

3) Sawtooth linearity

4) Fast reset time.

If any of these are not there, jitter or other
distortion will result. Maybe it will be a problem,
maybe a feature :^P

wouldn't you want ALL these in a good VCO...
alas, there are a lot of BAD VCOs out there too...

The TB-303 sawtooth with the 'flat spot' at the
top would be an awful choice.  The Yamaha clone
VCO that Old Crow did would be a bad choice
as well (because of the unusual reset waveform).

H^) harry


From jmahoney at gate.net  Wed Jan 18 05:41:00 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:41:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>	 <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>	 <43CA498F.8050900@burnit.co.uk> <43CA81CC.2A9FBF1E@prodigy.net>	 <001201c61b9e$643c6460$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com> <78f89520601171440o35bda47ck2aaca1eba3ee0c91@mail.gmail.com> <43CDB2A2.A81E524F@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <027d01c61be9$61fa4780$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

----- Original Message ----- 
>
> Close...
>
> Both Triangle and Square (50% duty) waves have ALL odd harmonics...
>
> The triangle amplitudes drop off at a much higher rate.
>
> Square is F + (1/3)3F + (1/5)5F....
>
> Triangle is F + (1/6)3F + (1/10)5F...
>
> (iirc, but I'm close... :^)
>
> H^) harry


Close...

Square is like you said, but the triangle harmonics drop off by inverse
squares. So...

Triangle is F + (1/9)3F + (1/25)5F...

(Me correcting Harry? Now, *there's* a first!  ;-P  ;-)
--
john


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 06:32:47 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:32:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
In-Reply-To: <001201c61b9e$643c6460$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>
	 <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
	 <43CA498F.8050900@burnit.co.uk> <43CA81CC.2A9FBF1E@prodigy.net>
	 <001201c61b9e$643c6460$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601172132k7bf7786ej747397858f94f595@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/17/06, Pat Kammerer <spivkurl at wearerecords.com> wrote:
>
> Doesn't a triangle wave have only even harmonics while square has only odd
> harmonics?

Full Wave Rectified Sine, has only Even harmonics. :)  (As well as the
Odd fundamental?)

It's a slightly different sound. :)  With animation, it sounds all the
better. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 1606 update


From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 07:00:12 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:00:12 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601172132k7bf7786ej747397858f94f595@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>
	 <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
	 <43CA498F.8050900@burnit.co.uk> <43CA81CC.2A9FBF1E@prodigy.net>
	 <001201c61b9e$643c6460$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
	 <b6b288a70601172132k7bf7786ej747397858f94f595@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87441170601172200y4822f9e0yc8e29bdbee059f25@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/17/06, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. <rykhaard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/17/06, Pat Kammerer <spivkurl at wearerecords.com> wrote:
> >
> > Doesn't a triangle wave have only even harmonics while square has only
> odd
> > harmonics?
>
> Full Wave Rectified Sine, has only Even harmonics. :)  (As well as the
> Odd fundamental?)
>
> It's a slightly different sound. :)  With animation, it sounds all the
> better. :)
>
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
>
> http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
> Jan. 1606 update
>
>

Okay, I'll bite... How do you animate a full wave rectified sine? I'm
guessing you vary the amount of the 'folded' wave that is blended back back
in?

Tim (animating a sine at 30 frames per second) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Wed Jan 18 07:51:50 2006
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (mirwin at marketbridge.ca)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:51:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Triple Ring Mod
References: <BAY115-F31EC3DBC610349F095D6A5B31D0@phx.gbl> <b6b288a70601172129j154a3185j2028426e0004373@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43CDE586.7E5B@marketbridge.ca>

There was an R.A.Penfold(?) article that showed how to build a cymbal 
synth based on a cascade of XOR gates (instead of four quadrant 
multipliers)- each with associated square wave oscillator. The premise 
was that the resulting spectrum would approximate white noise, but with 
a hint of "metallic" content.
Mike


From scottnoanh at peoplepc.com  Wed Jan 18 08:31:41 2006
From: scottnoanh at peoplepc.com (scottnoanh at peoplepc.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:31:41 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Triple Ring Mod
Message-ID: <002901c61c01$4e787520$4101f504@default>

> There was an R.A.Penfold(?) article that showed how to build a cymbal
> synth based on a cascade of XOR gates (instead of four quadrant
> multipliers)- each with associated square wave oscillator.

Ken Stones's Cynare does just this.

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs47_cynare.html

Tom Henry's percussion book has a section on pitched noise as well, with a
similar circuit for the same purpose.  Great for gong sounds, too, or
emulating the trash man's pickup at 4:00 AM.   I went through a jag a while
back playing with controlling the oscillators' pitches with VTL5C2's (slow,
but I got a lot of 'em yada yada) with a single CV.

Some samples from it
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/slsdiy/id18.html

Scroll down to 11 April, 2004.

Cheerio,
Scott


From vjhl2000 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 18 08:46:22 2006
From: vjhl2000 at hotmail.com (Vesa Lahteenmaki)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:46:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Busting some lead free PCB myths
Message-ID: <BAY17-F2175E7AA9D49526AE6027DD51D0@phx.gbl>

Some of you have been so deeply worried about the shelf life of pcbs.  This 
degration of soldering properties has much more meaning in the pro world eg. 
mass production of smd stuffed boards.  If you would open your cell phone, 
you would find extremly small resistor and capacitor smds. The soldering 
surface of these is very tiny, thus requiring  a very good pcb surface for 
proper wetting. These componets also have a limited shelf life.

I don't think any of us use smd ovens for soldering tiny ( 0203, 0402 ) smd 
components at home, right ? More likely most of your componets are of old 
fashioned thru hole type and you will be soldering manually one component 
pin at a time, so degration of pcb surface has less meaning. Just clean the 
surface if necessary, that's it.  For mass production old pcbs might be 
useless, but not for you.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Hotmail Plus - jopa 2 GB tallennustilaa s?hk?posteillesi. 
http://www.imagine-msn.com/hotmail/fi-fi/


From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Wed Jan 18 09:08:25 2006
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:08:25 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Triple Ring Mod
Message-ID: <20060118080825.5D52F34E@duckula.hotkey.net.au>

For a digital wave, an exclusive OR gate IS a ring modulator. Have a look at
my Cynare and Chime designs - CGS47 and CGS19

Ken

>There was an R.A.Penfold(?) article that showed how to build a cymbal 
>synth based on a cascade of XOR gates (instead of four quadrant 
>multipliers)- each with associated square wave oscillator. The premise 
>was that the resulting spectrum would approximate white noise, but with 
>a hint of "metallic" content.
>Mike
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au or sasami at cgs.synth.net
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>


From Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com  Wed Jan 18 09:15:06 2006
From: Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com (Gergo.Palatinszky at nokia.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:15:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 3280 from Futurlec
In-Reply-To: <200601171746.49565.HA.Synth@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <FEFBF55D5DB1534C937E060E9C74E05F0224C039@buebe101.NOE.Nokia.com>

 
Hi,

I've ordered too from Hungary (Central-east Europe / EU)

It takes 7 days and as I ordered 49$ the postal cost was only 7$ (via sipmple mail?) and I got it in an envelope and I haven't have to pay any extra taxes...
(20 CA3280 ; 25 CA3080 if I remember right)

Br,
	Pala


>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
>[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] 
>Sent: 2006. janu?r 17. 17:47
>To: Synth diy list
>Subject: [sdiy] 3280 from Futurlec
>
>For the guys in Germany/Europe. I ordererd the parts from 
>Futurlec 06.01.07. 
>They arrived today. Delivery time ten days. Ordered in USA. 
>Bill was in AUD. 
>Sended from Beijing (China). Transported with DHL (German 
>firm). The world is a village. For the germans: you have to 
>pay "Einf?hrungsumsatzsteuer" and "Zoll".
>
>HA
>
>


From synpro at networld.at  Wed Jan 18 09:29:23 2006
From: synpro at networld.at (Peter Ullrich)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:29:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Triple Ring Mod
Message-ID: <1137572963.43cdfc63e3230@webmail.networld.at>


>There was an R.A.Penfold(?) article that showed how to build a cymbal synth 
>based on a cascade of XOR gates (instead of four quadrant
>multipliers)- each with associated square wave oscillator. The premise was 
>that the resulting spectrum would approximate white noise, but with a hint 
>of "metallic" content.

It was the Synchime II.
I built it and it really sounds interesting and metallic!
I don't have the sound online but layouts for synchime II and syndrum II
on my downloads page.

Schematics are here:
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/diy_archive/schematics/drums/

direct link:
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/diy_archive/schematics/drums/binaries/
drums2.zip

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                               Ing. Peter Ullrich   
	               Hardware & Software Developer  /  Electronic Musician
                               Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt
   .oooO           
   (   )   Oooo.   
    \ (    (   )   
-----\_)----) /--------------------------------------------------------
           (_/

--------------------------------------
Ein Service von http://www.networld.at


From anpitkam at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 18 10:47:49 2006
From: anpitkam at hotmail.com (Antti PitkXmXki)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:47:49 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] components and germanium transistors
Message-ID: <BAY109-F35D8129A79D46C023F8490CA1D0@phx.gbl>

Hi!

Didn't somebody post here a while ago that he had found a huge amount of old 
components including germanium transistors? Could this person please contact 
me if he'd like to help a man get a few parts for his DIY Fuzz Face ;)

Antti Pitk?m?ki



From blommoo at wanadoo.nl  Wed Jan 18 13:51:16 2006
From: blommoo at wanadoo.nl (Wout Blommers)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:51:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Rick Jansen
References: <002e01c61c1e$8cc05790$0401a8c0@laurie>
Message-ID: <43CE39C4.10706@wanadoo.nl>

Hi Laurie,

Just Google and find:
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/rick/Emusic/Nord/
At the bottum of the page you'll find his email address.

Wout

Laurie Biddulph wrote:
> Anyone got an email address for Rick Jansen?



From colin at colinfraser.com  Wed Jan 18 15:32:47 2006
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:32:47 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Sync24
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80601180603s6f83c553h7141a0547d935cb0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c61c3c$0dc975c0$0101a8c0@zen2>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of 
> Samppa Tolvanen
> Sent: 18 January 2006 14:03
> To: Fredrik Carlqvist
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Sync24

> On 1/18/06, Fredrik Carlqvist <Fredrik.Carlqvist at iar.se> wrote:
> >
> > What are the signal specs on the Roland Sync24 protocol? I have only
> > found pin numbers so far. I need to know timing, clock 
> pulse lengths,
> > clock polarity etc. Does anyone have a link to something about this?

> The best resource so far: http://www.chd-el.cz/index.php?id=119
> Well, at least for me, pictures tell more than 1000 Chech words..

The pictures are not very accurate though...

The Roland TB303, TR606 and TR808 all poll their sync inputs every ~2ms.
So a clock pulse must be at the very least 2ms long for these devices to see
them.
Roland and Korg equipment I have checked generally don't go any shorter than
4ms pulses, giving an 8ms period which equates to a maximum tempo of 312
bpm.
(Korg used a pulse width of 2ms for the 24 to 48 ppqn conversion on the
KMS30, which implies that must be the minimum width for 48ppqn.
Each 24ppqn pulse triggers a 2ms pulse, 2ms space, 2ms pulse, giving the
required clock doubling.)

The CLOCK line must also be reset before the RUN line goes high, and CLOCK
must remain low for at least 8ms after the positive edge on RUN. Otherwise,
and 808 CPU (and possibly also 303 and 606, though I don't think this is
specifically documented) may not have time to initialise itself.

Cheers,
Colin f



From xamboldt at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 18 18:33:41 2006
From: xamboldt at earthlink.net (xamboldt)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:33:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Ring Mods and other more esoteric maths functions..
In-Reply-To: <43CE7728.3080401@burnit.co.uk>
References: <BAY115-F31EC3DBC610349F095D6A5B31D0@phx.gbl> <b6b288a70601172129j154a3185j2028426e0004373@mail.gmail.com> <43CDE586.7E5B@marketbridge.ca> <43CE7728.3080401@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BC1DBD9E-C70A-4B81-BFD4-6084C75274FC@earthlink.net>

The MOTM 510 has a transfer function of X(Y/Z)^m. Here are some demos:

http://www.synthtech.com/demo/motm510/
http://www.synthtech.com/demo/wavewarper.mp3

-Chris

On Jan 18, 2006, at 12:13 PM, Seb Francis wrote:
>
> I was wondering what Vy(Vz/Vx)^m would sound like...
>
> Seb
>
>


From jacosloof at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 18 23:12:20 2006
From: jacosloof at yahoo.com (Jaco Sloof)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:12:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] X8 squarewave multiplier.
In-Reply-To: <43CDBE8B.D2149CF7@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20060118221220.92721.qmail@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Harry,

reply is inline.

--- harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:

> The important features of the sawtooth are
> 
> 1) No change in amplitude with frequency
> 

Yup, it would mean that when amplitudes don't have a "standard" loudness-curve,
using it to select waveform samples is going to be funny. Might be a feature :)

> 2) No change in DC offset with frequency
> 

Could be usefull. Imagine, coming in is a 0-10V (unipolar) sawtooth. Scale it
to be 0-5V and add 5 volts. It would uhm,
 "rectify the wavetable-waveform", because it only uses (in case of 8 bits)
sample 127-256. Good feature!

> 3) Sawtooth linearity
> 
Jitter is fine. It's like the alarmclocks that sync time through the 60 Hz
powerline. They might not be accurate on (very) short timescales (measure every
0.001 Second), but they are stable as heck on large ones. Also, when
translating this through to a 8x mult (or worse when using wavetables), it does
create jitter, but the overall frequency (and phase when looking at large
timescales,  such as 1 complete cycle of a waveform) tracks the input nicely.
(in my head anyway)

> 4) Fast reset time.
Yup, or it would pop out samples while going back to zero.
> 
> If any of these are not there, jitter or other
> distortion will result. Maybe it will be a problem,
> maybe a feature :^P
> 
Personally, I like the idea a lot! Its not high Fi or anything, but I like my
sounds grungey, bleepy, micromusic.com'ey.

> wouldn't you want ALL these in a good VCO...
> alas, there are a lot of BAD VCOs out there too...
> 
> The TB-303 sawtooth with the 'flat spot' at the
> top would be an awful choice.  The Yamaha clone
> VCO that Old Crow did would be a bad choice
> as well (because of the unusual reset waveform).
> 
> H^) harry
> 

Greets, Jaco Sloof

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From sonicwarrior at gmx.de  Wed Jan 18 23:14:54 2006
From: sonicwarrior at gmx.de (Joachim)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:14:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Power-Supply: Power One vs. Condor vs. International Power
In-Reply-To: <003301c61c6a$30bece80$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <20060118081316.416451D0@duckula.hotkey.net.au> <20060118161232.86065.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> <78f89520601180904w289c4e83o2ceadfa3c54fa664@mail.gmail.com> <003301c61c6a$30bece80$0200a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <b73f382bd1283130ef76c0ccccce5f39@gmx.de>

Hello,

I'm currently searching for a good linear power-supply as a companion
for the Curetronic power supply in my upcoming modular system.

Recommended in a forum was Power One for that purpose
and the model HBB15-1.5A fits exactly my needs.

But: This is hard to get in Germany.

Because I plan to do a Mouser order in the beginning I searched
a bit there and found similar power supplies from other companies:
675-HBB15-1.5A from Condor
and
597-BB15-1.5 from International Power

The one from Condor is a bit more expensive and the one
from International Power a bit cheaper than the Power One model.

Is there any experience of the Synth-Diy list members with power 
supplies
from Condor or International Power?
The specs are looking the same in the my eyes.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Joachim


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu Jan 19 00:27:34 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:27:34 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] futurlec
In-Reply-To: <200601182207.k0IM78G9028927@dropmix>
References: <200601182207.k0IM78G9028927@dropmix>
Message-ID: <20060118232733.GA47723@moo.sysabend.org>

I didnt get a response from my email yesterday so I sent them a fax today.
My package was return address New York, shipped from San Diego and yes
Arabic all over the packing materials.  I'm glad they folded the envelope to
hide those because after all the trouble I got in when some MORONS sent me
the cesium cores I ordered THROUGH THE US MAIL ( I have an old cesium
clock... ) I dont need any more attention drawn to me...

Anyhow, those little vu meters are definatly cool.  I found this circuit
online which I plan to use to drive them :
http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Circuits/Audio/palm.htm

Can I think of a good use for the meter yet?  No, but that wont stop the
module from being made... :-)

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From controlvoltage at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 04:59:33 2006
From: controlvoltage at gmail.com (Amos)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 04:59:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Sine width modulation?
Message-ID: <908a4c120601181959v4fbad41na52964c167e49cb9@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies if this has been covered before, but I am curious...

Is it practical or musically useful to investigate per-cycle sinewave FM, a
la pulse-width modulation?
I envisioned an FM process such that for example, the rising/positive
portion of each sinewave cycle is at a higher frequency while the
falling/negative portion is at a lower frequency.  (or vice-versa I suppose,
for >50% duty cycle)
Would this still be considered sinusoidal?  Does it sound like anything
other than a pulse waveform with very-low-cutoff lowpass filter applied?

I feel like this is perhaps an ignorant question, but I would be grateful
for any replies on the topic.

Thanks!

[for implementation, I was thinking that a Pulse wave at the same
fundamental frequency as the sine to be modulated could be used, with the
pulse duration corresponding to the amount of frequency offset for the
positive portion of the sinewave.  The means by which the one should
influence the other (specifically how to create positive and negative
half-waves of differing frequency without artifacts) is still unclear to
me...]
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 19 05:22:51 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:22:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sine width modulation?
References: <908a4c120601181959v4fbad41na52964c167e49cb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43CF141A.6334E280@prodigy.net>

screw it if it HAS been covered, it sounds interesting...

You could do this with a cirucit that can morph from
sawtooth, to triangle to reverse sawtooth... feeding a sine-wave
shaper. That should be a lot easier to keep in tune than
the FM approach (if slightly more distorted)

iirc. Ian Fritz has a circuit for the triangle / saw on his site...
and I think Don Tillman has one as well.

I've done the triangle / saw morph and was not overly impressed...
kind of like a gentle PWM.  With a sine converter it could only
get less exciting.  But who can say, it might be worth the effort
for some folks

H^) harry

Amos wrote:
> 
> Apologies if this has been covered before, but I am curious...
> 
> Is it practical or musically useful to investigate per-cycle sinewave
> FM, a la pulse-width modulation?
> I envisioned an FM process such that for example, the rising/positive
> portion of each sinewave cycle is at a higher frequency while the
> falling/negative portion is at a lower frequency.  (or vice-versa I
> suppose, for >50% duty cycle)
> Would this still be considered sinusoidal?  Does it sound like
> anything other than a pulse waveform with very-low-cutoff lowpass
> filter applied?
> 
> I feel like this is perhaps an ignorant question, but I would be
> grateful for any replies on the topic.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> [for implementation, I was thinking that a Pulse wave at the same
> fundamental frequency as the sine to be modulated could be used, with
> the pulse duration corresponding to the amount of frequency offset for
> the positive portion of the sinewave.  The means by which the one
> should influence the other (specifically how to create positive and
> negative half-waves of differing frequency without artifacts) is still
> unclear to me...]


From seancostello2003 at comcast.net  Thu Jan 19 07:21:26 2006
From: seancostello2003 at comcast.net (Sean Costello)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:21:26 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Sine width modulation?
References: <908a4c120601181959v4fbad41na52964c167e49cb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007001c61cc0$942ec730$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>

This is essentially the phase distortion algorithm used in the Casio CZ synths. I think that it used a sine wavetable indexed by a ramp oscillator, where a "kink" could be placed in the ramp, such that the first half of the sine wave was indexed at a different rate than the second half. Harry Bissell's saw/triangle morph through a sine waveshaper would work just as well. 

Sean Costello
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Amos 
  To: Synth DIY 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:59 PM
  Subject: [sdiy] Sine width modulation?


  Apologies if this has been covered before, but I am curious...

  Is it practical or musically useful to investigate per-cycle sinewave FM, a la pulse-width modulation?
  I envisioned an FM process such that for example, the rising/positive portion of each sinewave cycle is at a higher frequency while the falling/negative portion is at a lower frequency.  (or vice-versa I suppose, for >50% duty cycle)
  Would this still be considered sinusoidal?  Does it sound like anything other than a pulse waveform with very-low-cutoff lowpass filter applied?

  I feel like this is perhaps an ignorant question, but I would be grateful for any replies on the topic.

  Thanks!

  [for implementation, I was thinking that a Pulse wave at the same fundamental frequency as the sine to be modulated could be used, with the pulse duration corresponding to the amount of frequency offset for the positive portion of the sinewave.  The means by which the one should influence the other (specifically how to create positive and negative half-waves of differing frequency without artifacts) is still unclear to me...]
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From seancostello2003 at comcast.net  Thu Jan 19 07:27:09 2006
From: seancostello2003 at comcast.net (Sean Costello)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:27:09 -0800
Subject: Standalone PC synths (was: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY)
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <006801c61b21$823f1200$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601172037140.1993@laptop.buchty.net>
Message-ID: <009701c61cc1$669fc390$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>

I presume that the Pentium-M requires a fan. However, the Pentium-M
processors are known to be great for audio, and score at the top of the
ranks for MAX/MSP performance (as a benchmark). Meanwhile,  it seems that
the VIA processors do not perform that well for audio - Amdre's email
confirmed my suspicions.

I used to think about building a Mini-ITX box using the VIA chips for audio,
but the Mac Mini seems to provide far more power than the VIA boxes (both in
terms of CPU and operating system) at a lower price.

Sean Costello (who just bought a Mac Mini, and is pretty happy so far)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rainer Buchty" <rainer at buchty.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Standalone PC synths (was: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY)


> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006, Sean Costello wrote:
>
> >I know that there are some inexpensive Mini-ITX and Nano-ITX motherboards
> >out there, that can run fanless with the VIA processors.
>
> Since you cite mini-itx.com, there's also a Mini-ITX board suitable for
> Pentium-M which offers "more power" <grunt> for those who need.
>
> Rainer
>


From grichter at asapnet.net  Thu Jan 19 08:25:32 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 01:25:32 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Substantive difference between MAT?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601190157300.27949@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
References: <20060103172211.78393.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601190157300.27949@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <5BCD4039-810E-4283-A529-7A71063A5A14@asapnet.net>

The most significant difference is the emitter-base resistance Rbe.

You will need to compensate for Rbe no matter what you use.

More expensive pairs will need less compensation then inexpensive ones.

Even inexpensive pairs can be compensated to within +/- 5 cents over  
8 octaves (Korg Poly 6 tuning spec for SSM VCO).

On Jan 19, 2006, at 1:00 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>
> I got some samples of the SSM transistor pairs and the LS  
> transistor pairs, and want some of my students to compare them to  
> the MAT pairs.
>
> I see digikey has MAT02-EH for $15 (eek!)
>
> and MAT02-FH for $8.60 (but not in stick)
>
> what are the relevant differences?
>
> Anywhere else have them cheaper?
>
> Similarly, MAT03EH for $16.82, MAT03FH for $9.45...
>
> (I'm also going to get the cheaper 2SCxxxx pairs, and some of the  
> CAxxxx arrays...)
>
> - Aaron
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -------
>
> Dr. Aaron Lanterman, Asst. Prof.       Voice:  404-385-2548
> School of Electrical and Comp. Eng.    Fax:    404-894-8363
> Georgia Institute of Technology        E-mail: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu
> Mail Code 0250                         Web:    users.ece.gatech.edu/ 
> ~lanterma
> Atlanta, GA 30332                      Office: GCATT 334B


From p.schelte at free.fr  Thu Jan 19 11:37:41 2006
From: p.schelte at free.fr (Philippe =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schelt=E9?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:37:41 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <200601161344.k0GDiJG9005913@dropmix>
References: <43CB9288.3070705@burnit.co.uk>
    <200601161344.k0GDiJG9005913@dropmix>
Message-ID: <22986.80.124.137.201.1137667061.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>

interesting product for standalone PC-Synth :

http://www.sd-omega.com/

somes are fanless

Regards

Philippe

***
http://dubphil.free.fr


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Thu Jan 19 14:30:38 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:30:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <009701c61cc1$669fc390$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <006801c61b21$823f1200$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601172037140.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <009701c61cc1$669fc390$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>
Message-ID: <43CF947E.2000000@burnit.co.uk>

Sean Costello wrote:

>I presume that the Pentium-M requires a fan. However, the Pentium-M
>processors are known to be great for audio,
>

You can run them without a fan, but they do require some kind of 
efficient cooling such as heatpipes to a large heatsink (e.g. a special 
PC case).  Here's a link JH posted a few days back ..
http://www.deltatronic.de/int/pc/index.html

Seb



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Thu Jan 19 14:32:55 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:32:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <009701c61cc1$669fc390$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <006801c61b21$823f1200$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601172037140.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <009701c61cc1$669fc390$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4>
Message-ID: <43CF9507.90406@burnit.co.uk>

Sean Costello wrote:

>I presume that the Pentium-M requires a fan. However, the Pentium-M
>processors are known to be great for audio,
>
Here's another example ..

http://www.sd-omega.com/sd625f.html


From julian at 22host24.com  Thu Jan 19 14:45:09 2006
From: julian at 22host24.com (Julian)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:45:09 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
References: <BFF006F9.4F86%davekendall@ntlworld.com> <43CA5B04.90402@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601151709250.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <43CA8F7A.90106@burnit.co.uk> <004401c61a03$aa149ee0$0200a8c0@jhsilent> <006801c61b21$823f1200$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601172037140.1993@laptop.buchty.net> <009701c61cc1$669fc390$0300a8c0@analognuf38wu4> <43CF947E.2000000@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <222a01c61cfe$90bc7aa0$8b4a9bd9@erzulie>

Anyone see this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/


Oil cooled pc.  Good for interest value, but im not convinced by the
practicality... ; )

Julian


From fred at upian.com  Thu Jan 19 17:26:03 2006
From: fred at upian.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric_Bourgeais?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:26:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] papareil Dual lin ADSR 
In-Reply-To: <NHBBIFCEGLMEBDNBDAJHKEEAEKAA.eric@piramiden.demon.nl>
References: <NHBBIFCEGLMEBDNBDAJHKEEAEKAA.eric@piramiden.demon.nl>
Message-ID: <fc63b3e7a2a5c19c743483c20d74273d@upian.com>

Hello all,

I built 2 year ago Marc Bareille's dual lin ADSR which is based on 
Aaron Cram's Envylope
http://m.bareille.free.fr/modular1/adsr/mb_cvadsr2.htm

As my modular grow, I had to repackage it, I did some tweaks.
To prevent noise, I added 2 100 ohm resistor where Marc used Self, to 
prevent PSU noise (I used links before).
  I also changed the 8 Led to smaller ones (5mm to 3mm).

Now, the A,D and R led don't flash anymore. But previous 5 mm led 
flashed very very low.
Which resistor should I change to provide more current for a nice 
effect ?

I also noticed some oscillations problems between the 2 enveloppes ( 
kind of secret, but annoying LFO feature ; ))

Any builder experienced theses troubles ?
Thanks for your help

++Fred


From rdrake at data2action.com  Thu Jan 19 17:57:52 2006
From: rdrake at data2action.com (rdrake)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:57:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] =?US-ASCII?B?UkU6IFtzZGl5XSBMb25nLCBsb25nLCBsb25nIHNldHMsIG1hbg==?=
Message-ID: <200601191657.k0JGvqFB060641@mmm1113.verio-web.com>

639 years... http://www.john-cage.halberstadt.de/


>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf
>Of Greg Amann
>Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:08 AM
>To: Synth-DIY
>Subject: [sdiy] Long, long, long sets, man
>
>
>I apologize in advance for the off-topicedness of
>this post, but I  
>love you all.
>
>I would like to read aboot artists who do long
>sets.	I mean the  
>monster 12 hour dusk to dawn variety from the 70s,
>man.  I have heard  
>of Zimmeresque thingies but a google of Zimmer only
>gets me a film  
>composer.
>
>Any links to artists or events, please send to  
>greg.amann at sympatico.ca.  Please don't clutter up
>the SDIY list.
>
>I don't know who else to turn to, please help!
>
>PLL, BFG


From fred at upian.com  Thu Jan 19 18:26:04 2006
From: fred at upian.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric_Bourgeais?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:26:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] papareil Dual lin ADSR 
In-Reply-To: <20060119171315.27458.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060119171315.27458.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c7ec5c48681ab4a6a56f214ef0cbbd3c@upian.com>

Oops, sorry, a "self" is an inductor in french :=)

I'll try 10 ohm/100?F. But before adding these 100 Ohm, led fashed very 
low.
thanks for your advise.

++Fred




Le 19 janv. 06, ? 18:13, Harry Bissell Jr a ?crit :

> Sounds like a power supply problem.
>
>  The 'self' (don't know what he means by that) is shown as
>  an inductor. These typically have a very low resistance...
>  MUCH lower than 100 ohms.
>
>  You might try like 10 ohms... and make the capacitors after that
>  100uF or larger.?
>
>  If they will fit... maybe a 100uH inductor (choke) in place of the
>  'self' would be better.
>
>  If someone knows what 'self' means let me know
>
>  H^) harry
>
> Fr?d?ric Bourgeais <fred at upian.com> wrote:
>  Hello all,
>
> I built 2 year ago Marc Bareille's dual lin ADSR which is based on
> Aaron Cram's Envylope
> http://m.bareille.free.fr/modular1/adsr/mb_cvadsr2.htm
>
> As my modular grow, I had to repackage it, I did some tweaks.
> To prevent noise, I added 2 100 ohm resistor where Marc used Self, to
> prevent PSU noise (I used links before).
>  I also changed the 8 Led to smaller ones (5mm to 3mm).
>
> Now, the A,D and R led don't flash anymore. But previous 5 mm led
>  flashed very very low.
> Which resistor should I change to provide more current for a nice
>  effect ?
>
> I also noticed some oscillations problems between the 2 enveloppes (
> kind of secret, but annoying LFO feature ; ))
>
> Any builder experienced theses troubles ?
> Thanks for your help
>
> ++Fred
>
>
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From pkn at quicknet.nl  Thu Jan 19 21:02:33 2006
From: pkn at quicknet.nl (P Kleine Neerken)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:02:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TA101 from Valley People
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20060119115035.02cc37c0@pop.west.cox.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20060119115035.02cc37c0@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <43CFF059.9040200@quicknet.nl>

I believe there are 4 NPN and 4 PNP transistors on one housing so I 
suppose I could use them as a "EFM roll your own OTA" as seen in the 
several of his modules.

James Patchell wrote:

> Well...it sounds interesting to say the very least...it might be more 
> useful as an OTA substitute, depending on how many transistors are on 
> it...
>
> At 08:37 PM 1/19/2006 +0100, P Kleine Neerken wrote:
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Does any one of you have some information on this "IC".
>> I have searched around on the internet but there isn't much 
>> information on this device.
>> I found the following information:
>> It's a NPN and PNP transistor array.
>> I also read somewhere that it is considered to be a Supermatched array.
>> Does any body know if this is true and also if I could use it for a 
>> current mirror in VCO's?
>>
>> I would like to know the pin out of the device.
>> I'm hoping that someone has a PDF of this device but I doubt that 
>> there is one.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Pascal.
>>
>>
>
>         -Jim
> ***************************************************************
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell
>
> ***************************************************************
>
>
>


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Thu Jan 19 21:10:06 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:10:06 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] TA101 from Valley People
In-Reply-To: <43CFEA6E.9080005@quicknet.nl>
References: <43CFEA6E.9080005@quicknet.nl>
Message-ID: <43CFF21E.7010101@burnit.co.uk>

http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4058&view=next&sid=543eb402834a497af7b0eca4f4840b89

"The TA101's are just sets of closely-matched NPN/PNP transistors, often 
used as VCA's."

They are apparently used in the Symetrix 522 as the VCA.

Here's a pic that shows the pin I/O ...
http://vacuumbrain.com/The_Lab/TA/Valley_People/vp_2.jpg
(but maybe this is a pic of a Valley People VCA simply containing a 
TA101, not a TA101 itself?)

Seb



P Kleine Neerken wrote:

> Hi List,
>
> Does any one of you have some information on this "IC".
> I have searched around on the internet but there isn't much 
> information on this device.
> I found the following information:
> It's a NPN and PNP transistor array.
> I also read somewhere that it is considered to be a Supermatched array.
> Does any body know if this is true and also if I could use it for a 
> current mirror in VCO's?
>
> I would like to know the pin out of the device.
> I'm hoping that someone has a PDF of this device but I doubt that 
> there is one.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Pascal.
>
>
>
>


From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Thu Jan 19 21:56:44 2006
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (Mike)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:56:44 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] TA101 from Valley People
References: <43CFEA6E.9080005@quicknet.nl>
Message-ID: <000201c61d3a$dc4e3760$55c847d1@d3b0d5>

Pascal,
No specific information, but the device is probably an old Rohm part, or
possibly a Toshiba part,  that info might be of help in tracking down a
datasheet..
Mike


From pkn at quicknet.nl  Thu Jan 19 22:14:56 2006
From: pkn at quicknet.nl (P Kleine Neerken)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:14:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TA101 from Valley People
In-Reply-To: <43CFF21E.7010101@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43CFEA6E.9080005@quicknet.nl> <43CFF21E.7010101@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43D00150.3020801@quicknet.nl>

I also came across this site. The TA101's that I have are green blocks 
with 24 pins, 6 on each side.
I will see if I can do some measurements tomorrow.

Meanwhile thanks for the effort.

Seb Francis wrote:

> http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4058&view=next&sid=543eb402834a497af7b0eca4f4840b89 
>
>
> "The TA101's are just sets of closely-matched NPN/PNP transistors, 
> often used as VCA's."
>
> They are apparently used in the Symetrix 522 as the VCA.
>
> Here's a pic that shows the pin I/O ...
> http://vacuumbrain.com/The_Lab/TA/Valley_People/vp_2.jpg
> (but maybe this is a pic of a Valley People VCA simply containing a 
> TA101, not a TA101 itself?)
>
> Seb
>
>
>
> P Kleine Neerken wrote:
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Does any one of you have some information on this "IC".
>> I have searched around on the internet but there isn't much 
>> information on this device.
>> I found the following information:
>> It's a NPN and PNP transistor array.
>> I also read somewhere that it is considered to be a Supermatched array.
>> Does any body know if this is true and also if I could use it for a 
>> current mirror in VCO's?
>>
>> I would like to know the pin out of the device.
>> I'm hoping that someone has a PDF of this device but I doubt that 
>> there is one.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Pascal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu Jan 19 22:35:08 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:35:08 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] TA101 from Valley People
In-Reply-To: <43CFF21E.7010101@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43CFEA6E.9080005@quicknet.nl> <43CFF21E.7010101@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060119213508.GG47723@moo.sysabend.org>

On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 08:10:06PM +0000, Seb Francis wrote:
> "The TA101's are just sets of closely-matched NPN/PNP transistors, often 
> used as VCA's."

Look in this schematic :
http://www.waltzingbear.com/Schematics/Valley/400_audio.htm

Its blurry but you can see a TA101 right there in the middle.

A quick bit of websearching turns up that the TA-101 was made by Allison
Research.  This stuff is 70's vintage, I can find very little mention of
Allison Research anywhere.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu Jan 19 22:53:54 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:53:54 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] TA101 from Valley People
In-Reply-To: <43D00150.3020801@quicknet.nl>
References: <43CFEA6E.9080005@quicknet.nl> <43CFF21E.7010101@burnit.co.uk> <43D00150.3020801@quicknet.nl>
Message-ID: <20060119215354.GH47723@moo.sysabend.org>

I was wrong about Allison Research. ( yeah, I kept looking ).  Seems that
they were a forerunner to Valley People.  

I think your best bet is that fuzzy schematic which shows the 6 transistors.
There might be a chance of finding Paul Buff of Allison Research/Valley
People fame, or maybe asking THATcorp nicely if they know anything about it
since it seems they ( as dbx ) licenced some rights to Allison/Valley.

*insert 5 minute pause*

Verified, this is the correct Paul Buff :
http://www.paulcbuff.com/

He seems nice enough, drop him an email...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From brockr0 at shaw.ca  Thu Jan 19 22:57:28 2006
From: brockr0 at shaw.ca (Brock Russell)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:57:28 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Harry gets another design idea published in EDN
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20060119134844.02f2fbe8@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net>

Congratulations Harry.


  Check it out: Enhanced, three-phase VCO features ground-referenced outputs
<http://www.edn.com/article/CA6298270.html?spacedesc=designideas>




From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 19 23:22:11 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (Harry Bissell Jr)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:22:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Harry gets another design idea published in EDN
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20060119134844.02f2fbe8@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net>
Message-ID: <20060119222212.57050.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com>

LOL... (thanks)  I just saw it myself.  :^P
  
  Just a note to the on-list folks. After submitting this I built
  Rene Schmitz's switched-capacitor design... and I'd recommend that
  people build THAT one (it works better)
  
  My design does feature one good principle that can be used for those
  who want to play with CMOS in linear mode... using a spare gate to
  get the DC operating point voltage.  those who want to use the linear
  parts for distortion etc might make use of the technique.
  
  Rene's method of obtaining lower distortion outputs could be applied to this
  circuit as well, and you would get the ground referencing for free.
  
  Now... do you think its really a power inverter control, or a VC-LFO with a
  range of .1 to 26 Hz ????   :^P
  
  H^) harry
  

Brock Russell <brockr0 at shaw.ca> wrote:  Congratulations Harry.


  Check it out: Enhanced, three-phase VCO features ground-referenced outputs






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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan 20 02:27:25 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:27:25 -0500
Subject: SV: [sdiy] Harry gets another design idea published in EDN
References: <20060120000540.48790.qmail@web25511.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43D03C7D.3C0FAD6C@prodigy.net>

LOL again...

its not sneaky.  :^P

There are good designs, and better designs. This one
is MUCH more useful than the original it improved on.

If you really needed a continuous waveform, Rene's
switched capacitor design might be worse.  Since most of us
are going to use these as LFOs... it might be that either
would be OK.

The price is now up to $150 (USD)... otoh I don't have the
'check' yet. Last time it took six months before it was published
and another six months to get the check... so you either
have to write a LOT of 'design ideas' or 'keep your day job'.

This time my employer decided to let me publish my company
affiliation. Its good press for them too (as long as everyone
doesn't say... what a bonehead idea :^)

H^) harry

karl dalen wrote:
> 
> How sneaky, Harry! ;)
> 
> Did'nt you just said:
> Screw those EDN faggots on 100USD Ian! ;)
> 
> KD (comic relief heading your way)
> 
> --- Brock Russell <brockr0 at shaw.ca> skrev:
> 
> > Congratulations Harry.
> >
> >
> >   Check it out: Enhanced, three-phase VCO features ground-referenced outputs
> > <http://www.edn.com/article/CA6298270.html?spacedesc=designideas>
> >
> >
> >
> >


From torpedo at demadrid.com  Fri Jan 20 03:16:01 2006
From: torpedo at demadrid.com (Gorka Garcia)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:16:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Make Magazine
Message-ID: <20060119181601.5144F17B@dm20.mta.everyone.net>

Hi,

You might already know this magazine (you might even be involved in it), but just in case:

http://www.makezine.com/

I saw the last volume: http://www.makezine.com/04/ And has some interesting articles about music diy stuff (including a guide about how to circuit bend your casio sk1.

Gorka

_____________________________________________________________
www.deMadrid.com , el correo gratuito de Madrid. 25 Mb de espacio.


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan 20 03:22:28 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:22:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] papareil Dual lin ADSR
References: <20060119171315.27458.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> <c7ec5c48681ab4a6a56f214ef0cbbd3c@upian.com>
Message-ID: <43D04964.5292C45A@prodigy.net>

I looked up the EnvyLope... and there is some mention on Aron's
site about an LED problem. Maybe it still exists.

If you look at the resistors associated with the LEDs... in one case I
see
a 470 ohm resistor. If you added a 100 ohms in series (putting the
resistor
in place of 'self' adds a resistor in series with everything :^)....

...you introduce an error of 20%.  Not to mention that any change in
power supply voltage after the resistor is seen EVERYWHERE in the
circuit.

Its like running your circuit on dead batteries... literally. Power
supply
impedance should be low.

Ten ohms might not be the magic number, just a suggestion.  I'd really
try
the inductor. It would have DC resistance of probably a few milliohms...
and
much higher AC impedance. So it would be more effective at decoupling
the power supply.

The inductor and the capacitor after it... might also resonate at some
frequency
and make the problem worse.

Its a tough choice...

H^) harry

Fr?d?ric Bourgeais wrote:
> 
> Oops, sorry, a "self" is an inductor in french :=)
> 
> I'll try 10 ohm/100?F. But before adding these 100 Ohm, led fashed very low.
> thanks for your advise.
> 
> ++Fred
> 
> Le 19 janv. 06, ? 18:13, Harry Bissell Jr a ?crit :
> 
>      Sounds like a power supply problem.
> 
>      The 'self' (don't know what he means by that) is shown as
>      an inductor. These typically have a very low resistance...
>      MUCH lower than 100 ohms.
> 
>      You might try like 10 ohms... and make the capacitors after that
>      100uF or larger.
> 
>      If they will fit... maybe a 100uH inductor (choke) in place of the
>      'self' would be better.
> 
>      If someone knows what 'self' means let me know
> 
>      H^) harry
> 
>      Fr?d?ric Bourgeais <fred at upian.com> wrote:
>      Hello all,
> 
>      I built 2 year ago Marc Bareille's dual lin ADSR which is based on
>      Aaron Cram's Envylope
>      http://m.bareille.free.fr/modular1/adsr/mb_cvadsr2.htm
> 
>      As my modular grow, I had to repackage it, I did some tweaks.
>      To prevent noise, I added 2 100 ohm resistor where Marc used Self, to
>      prevent PSU noise (I used links before).
>      I also changed the 8 Led to smaller ones (5mm to 3mm).
> 
>      Now, the A,D and R led don't flash anymore. But previous 5 mm led
>      flashed very very low.
>      Which resistor should I change to provide more current for a nice
>      effect ?
> 
>      I also noticed some oscillations problems between the 2 enveloppes (
>      kind of secret, but annoying LFO feature ; ))
> 
>      Any builder experienced theses troubles ?
>      Thanks for your help
> 
>      ++Fred


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Fri Jan 20 05:37:55 2006
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:37:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy]Roland Sh-2000 schematics
In-Reply-To: <8c2a45890601191652s1b307093q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B661BBA038195D4C9D8B2AD3599C965E272A3A@melserver.perform-sol.com>	 <43CF3246.8080605@imt.net> <8c2a45890601191652s1b307093q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43D06923.6080005@imt.net>

I recall asking ROland now and I think they've lost track of the SH-2000 
diagrams which is why they aren't on line also.  They were only able to 
send me hard copy of the SH-1000 that would probably be close to the 
same design.

Ok the 1000 also has the 'random note' feature I see.  Here's how it works.

There is a dpdt switch whose common poles are

common 1) a little filtering and between it and the pin 3 of a 741 op 
amp (IC10 in the SH1000) AND a 2.2K resistor that connects the common to 
the pole of the switch that goes to the keyboard (so that the key CV is 
leaked across to give some interactive effect on the 'random note' 
setting I assume...otherwise if keyboard is selected this resistor is 
shorted out and meaningless of course provided the switch is working :-) ) 

common 2) The cathode of a diode whose anode attaches to and FET gate.A 
2SK30A.  It is used to actually just turn on/off gate control of another 
FET by the portamento pot/switch (when the port switch is closed it 
simply shorts out the portamento potentiometer ) which is driven by the 
output of IC10 above (Ic10 is wired with a100K feedback resistor and 
paralell .01uF cap to give a low frequency response unity gain amp as 
there is also a 100K resistor in line with the input filtering from the 
'random note' switch I mentioned above.

    Anyway, so the other pole of common 1) goes to a line labelled 
"Noise".  The poles of common 2) go to a Square wave which I assume 
symbolizes the 'gate' signal.  The pole associated with the 'random 
note' side of that one goes to a string of pulses symbol...which I 
assume is probably an 'auto gating' signal generated somewhere...don't 
have time to look right now...

But anyway, it says you should have 5.6V on the 'top' of the keyboard 
'resistor ladder'.  This voltage is likely not there.  If it isn't there 
either there is no 13V or whatever supplying the circuit which adjusts 
the span and all composed of two pots, two transistors, a diode and a 
few resistors/caps... OR one of the transistors there probably failed 
open.  Or one of the variable resistors got so dirty that it's not 
conducting maybe.  Anyway just do a general check for solder and stuff 
if it's not any of that... and I think you'll find the problem. -Bob

Diogo Melo wrote:

>hi bob!
>
>i'de appreciate much if you got those schematics. i've managed to get
>the sh 2000 running. It makes sound but only if you turn "Random key"
>mode on. The keyboard doesn't seem to be working...
>
>
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Diogo
>
>On 19/01/06, Bob Weigel <sounddoctorin at imt.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>There seems to be a lot of interest in getting these up.  I'll ask Terry
>>Wall when I talk to him if it's ok to post them.  Since it's...like
>>their first I wouldn't think they'd mind but I've sworn a solemn oath
>>and all that kind of stuff ya know :).  But any Roland service center
>>should be able to get to them.  -Bob
>>
>>Brett Maddaford wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hi Bob
>>>
>>>What service site were u looking at? I'd like to get my hands on the
>>>1000 schems and you mention u saw it there ;)
>>>
>>>Cya
>>>Brett
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Bob Weigel [mailto:sounddoctorin at imt.net]
>>>Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2006 2:33 PM
>>>To: Diogo Melo
>>>Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>Subject: Re: [sdiy]Roland Sh-2000 schematics
>>>
>>>
>>>That's a tough one as Roland doesn't even have it on the service site
>>>when I went through them all a while back.  The 1000 is there.  The
>>>technology used in all those things is fairly predictable but when
>>>funcitons are missing it's good the have the ROM codes which are listed
>>>in the service manuals.  I'll bet they used the same chips as the SH1000
>>>
>>>though and just wired them different probably.
>>>
>>>However checking my trusty web page, looks like Mark Glinsky (Manual
>>>Manor ) has it -Bob
>>>
>>>Diogo Melo wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Hi! I was wondering if anyone has the schematics for the roland sh
>>>>2000. A friend of mine has one in poor condition and asked me if i
>>>>could fix it up for him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>i tried the web and there were no schematics there
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>diogo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>
>
>  
>


From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Fri Jan 20 19:59:16 2006
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:59:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] trigger to optocoupler is button?
References: <BAY109-F196F89BB00F03FEAF70081B51F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <007101c61df3$a0a56490$947ba8c0@HypoLuxa>

Hi Jean,

I've added trigger inputs to a toy drum machine.   I didn't use 
optocouplers, but simply strapped a transistor across the button contacts of 
the toy.   Apply a positive trigger through a series resistor to the base of 
the transistor.

Look for a "gate to S-Trigger converter" schematic... same idea.   You just 
need to figure out the voltages at the switch (does it short to ground or 
V+) , and orient the transistor the in proper direction.  This is the same 
principle as your opto coupler idea... just without the added isolation.   I 
haven't had any problems thus far...

You could also use CMOS switches and use those to short the button 
contacts... just be careful that your switching voltage doesn't exceed the 
supply voltage of the CMOS switch (use protection diodes, etc.).   The nice 
thing here is that you get multiple gates on a single IC.

Dave Magnuson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jena Jena" <jena_mu_six at hotmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: [sdiy] trigger to optocoupler is button?


> Hi there,
>
> I would like to trigger some buttons on certain musical toys I have, using 
> the triggers of my modular.
>
> Can I use an optocoupler for that?
>
> If so what type?
>
> If not..............any other suggestions are very welcome.
>
> Thanks...
>
> Greetings,
>
> Jean
> 


From Stromeko at Compuserve.DE  Fri Jan 20 23:13:02 2006
From: Stromeko at Compuserve.DE (ASSI)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:13:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Standalone PC synths
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060117113401.040134b0@mail.all-electric.com>
References: <20060116235617.11623.qmail@web25501.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20060117113401.040134b0@mail.all-electric.com>
Message-ID: <200601202313.03798.Stromeko@Compuserve.DE>

On Dienstag, 17. Januar 2006 02:35, Batz Goodfortune wrote:
> However, mindtrix asside, what I'm wondering is, how do you run a
> VSTi under linux?

You need Wine and a VST host program (there are several). The exact 
software versions of all components matter greatly. It is probably best 
to just get hold of special Linux distributions for music. There are 
two big distros - Agnula and Planet CCRMA.

http://www.agnula.org/
http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/

Also check

http://linux-sound.org/

and in particular

http://linux-sound.org/distro.html

some of these are based on other distributions, some are full 
installable distributions and some are live CD (don't require an 
install). Chose your poison.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk sonic heaven]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf microQ V2.22R2:
http://Stromeko.Synth.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan 21 01:20:32 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:20:32 +0000
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
References: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk> <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk> <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
Message-ID: <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk>

Pat Kammerer wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:55 PM
>Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff]
>
>
>  
>
>>>I find that at low supply voltages the OP275 distorts undesirably.  I
>>>find
>>>that a much better alternative is the OP270.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>But at higher supply and signal voltages you might find the opposite is
>>true - the slew rate of the OP275 is ~10 times the OP270.  The offset
>>voltage and drift is however much smaller for the OP270 which might be
>>useful in applications which handle pitch CVs as well as audio.
>>
>>Seb
>>    
>>
>
>I find that with a +/- 12V supply, the apparent sound quality (by ear) and
>waveshape (as veiwed on oscilloscope) is better in audio applications such
>as VCA, preamp, equalizer, and buffer.  I generally use a higher slew rate
>amp when summing CVs and related applications.  I have trouble beleiving
>that the slew rate is the primary cause of the distortion that I have
>noticed when using the OP 275, wouldn't it mostly indicate that a larger
>bandwidth is possible without loss in linearity?
>
>
>  
>
What I meant that the fast slew rate should actually reduce distortion 
for large signals.  There must be other factors that are resulting in 
you finding distortion on the OP275 relative to the OP270.  Personally I 
find the OP275s excellent (only used on +/-15V tho) - I tend to use them 
when I want something better for audio than the TL072.  Or I use the 
NE5532, but these are kind of current hungry.

Seb



From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Sat Jan 21 01:35:43 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:35:43 -0600
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
References: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk> <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>

----- Original Message -----
To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff]


>
> > I find that at low supply voltages the OP275 distorts undesirably.  I
> > find
> > that a much better alternative is the OP270.
> >
> >
> >
> But at higher supply and signal voltages you might find the opposite is
> true - the slew rate of the OP275 is ~10 times the OP270.  The offset
> voltage and drift is however much smaller for the OP270 which might be
> useful in applications which handle pitch CVs as well as audio.
>
> Seb

I find that with a +/- 12V supply, the apparent sound quality (by ear) and
waveshape (as veiwed on oscilloscope) is better in audio applications such
as VCA, preamp, equalizer, and buffer.  I generally use a higher slew rate
amp when summing CVs and related applications.  I have trouble beleiving
that the slew rate is the primary cause of the distortion that I have
noticed when using the OP 275, wouldn't it mostly indicate that a larger
bandwidth is possible without loss in linearity?


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Jan 21 01:44:25 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:44:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net><000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave><43CA498F.8050900@burnit.co.uk><43CA81CC.2A9FBF1E@prodigy.net><001201c61b9e$643c6460$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20060117130848.03431850@mail.earthlink.net> <003401c61e23$397e3960$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
Message-ID: <43D183E9.F8227FB2@prodigy.net>

Really... I don't have a triangle wave. I have a 6dB RC filtered
square wave (50% duty for sure).  Within milliseconds after attack...
a second 12dB LPF is closing on it... probably its a sine wave very
quickly.

The 'triangle' has a LOT more fundamental energy than the 'sawtooth'...
for equal amplitude. Makes sense.  Bass guitar really has a lot of even
harmonic content. In fact its NOT harmonic content... the harmonics are
substantially sharp because of string stiffness... MORE so on a bass
than other string instruments imho.

H^) harry

Pat Kammerer wrote:
> 
> To: Pat Kammerer <spivkurl at wearerecords.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
> 
> > At 12:44 PM 1/17/06, you wrote:
> >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> > >To: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
> > >Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > >Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:09 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
> > >
> > >
> > > > I 'can' make the system pass the triangle wave. This has only odd
> > > > harmonics
> > >
> > >Doesn't a triangle wave have only even harmonics while square has only
> odd
> > >harmonics?
> >
> > Nooo ... both odd only.
> >
> 
> Oh I see, after a bit of research.  The triangle has an exponention decrease
> in odd harmonic amplitudes, and the square has a linear decrease in odd
> harmonics.  I stand corrected.


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 21 02:29:37 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:29:37 -0700
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk>
 <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk>
 <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
 <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>

At 05:20 PM 1/20/06, Seb Francis wrote:
>Pat Kammerer wrote:
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:55 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I find that at low supply voltages the OP275 distorts undesirably.  I
>>>>find
>>>>that a much better alternative is the OP270.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>But at higher supply and signal voltages you might find the opposite is
>>>true - the slew rate of the OP275 is ~10 times the OP270.  The offset
>>>voltage and drift is however much smaller for the OP270 which might be
>>>useful in applications which handle pitch CVs as well as audio.
>>>
>>>Seb
>>>
>>
>>I find that with a +/- 12V supply, the apparent sound quality (by ear) and
>>waveshape (as veiwed on oscilloscope) is better in audio applications such
>>as VCA, preamp, equalizer, and buffer.  I generally use a higher slew rate
>>amp when summing CVs and related applications.  I have trouble beleiving
>>that the slew rate is the primary cause of the distortion that I have
>>noticed when using the OP 275, wouldn't it mostly indicate that a larger
>>bandwidth is possible without loss in linearity?
>>
>>
>>
>What I meant that the fast slew rate should actually reduce distortion for 
>large signals.  There must be other factors that are resulting in you 
>finding distortion on the OP275 relative to the OP270.  Personally I find 
>the OP275s excellent (only used on +/-15V tho) - I tend to use them when I 
>want something better for audio than the TL072.  Or I use the NE5532, but 
>these are kind of current hungry.
>
>Seb

Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%

   Ian 


From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Sat Jan 21 02:34:31 2006
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 03:34:31 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Bass generator synth DIY
In-Reply-To: <003401c61e23$397e3960$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
References: <57148.192.168.0.3.1137325055.squirrel@webmail.migratis.net>
 <000f01c619d0$81e37fa0$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43CA498F.8050900@burnit.co.uk>
 <43CA81CC.2A9FBF1E@prodigy.net> <001201c61b9e$643c6460$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
 <6.2.1.2.2.20060117130848.03431850@mail.earthlink.net>
 <003401c61e23$397e3960$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601210330420.8231@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Pat Kammerer wrote:

> Oh I see, after a bit of research.  The triangle has an exponention decrease
> in odd harmonic amplitudes, and the square has a linear decrease in odd
> harmonics.  I stand corrected.

Mo. :)
Square wave has odd harmonics with amplitudes of 1/n (n being the 
harmonic). Integrating square gives triangle. Integration is same as 
applying a 6dB/oct slope to the spectrum (starting from DC), aka 
multiplying the spectrum by 1/f. Hence triangle harmonics fall at 1/n^2.

Why yes, I did major in signal processing ;)

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From eqys at iposadas.com.ar  Sat Jan 21 05:46:04 2006
From: eqys at iposadas.com.ar (fmg)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 01:46:04 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] papareil Dual lin ADSR
References: <20060119171315.27458.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> <c7ec5c48681ab4a6a56f214ef0cbbd3c@upian.com> <43D04964.5292C45A@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <43D1BC8C.8010F3C8@iposadas.com.ar>

harrybissell wrote:

> [...]

> The inductor and the capacitor after it... might also resonate at some
> frequency
> and make the problem worse.
> 

Much worse...

I use inductors every time I can in my projects (I build them all) but a thing
I recommend is not to use them for filtering in a power rail *without* an
electrolytic attached immediatly after it.
When the case is that...that the circuit already has decoupling caps associated
to TTLs, 555s or other 'transient-by-short-circuit generators' these devices
takes charge from the capacitors for a short period of time in a manner the
inductor really really really dislike.
Under this situation the inductor feels this is a bad environment and invoke bad
spirits to ruin everything. (I mean high voltage here... and everywhere)
The electrolytic works in this case as a contention for its bad attitude. Its not
a very common situation.. but happens. Other than that it performs very well for
the purpose, and personally I... but... what I'm saying ?

<pause... looking at Bareille's schematics>

Ok, there are no 555s, TTLs or transistors sinking big currents and the
electrolitycs are there, thats good.
For that schematics I would use a pair of 1.5mH and change the 10uF capacitors for
470uF. I would also use reverse diode protection for the coils (in parallel with
the electrolitycs) and for back-discharge in the regulators (if they are 7XXX)
All this means more pcb space than expected but also means less PS impedance and
less waste of power (than if the inductors were replaced by resistors).

Frederic: In part of your original post you said that your modular 'grew'. Just...
did you let your PS grow accordingly ? ;-)

Fabio
.


From grichter at asapnet.net  Sat Jan 21 07:36:41 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:36:41 -0600
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk> <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk> <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com> <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk> <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <64E08D31-49CB-421D-AD2B-604B52BAC837@asapnet.net>

>
> Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%

How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD


From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Sat Jan 21 07:46:05 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:46:05 -0600
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
References: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk> <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk> <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com> <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001901c61e56$5adb9ac0$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>


> >----- Original Message -----
> >To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:55 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff]
> >

> >>>I find that at low supply voltages the OP275 distorts undesirably.  I
> >>>find
> >>>that a much better alternative is the OP270.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>But at higher supply and signal voltages you might find the opposite is
> >>true - the slew rate of the OP275 is ~10 times the OP270.  The offset
> >>voltage and drift is however much smaller for the OP270 which might be
> >>useful in applications which handle pitch CVs as well as audio.
> >>
> >>Seb
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I find that with a +/- 12V supply, the apparent sound quality (by ear)
and
> >waveshape (as veiwed on oscilloscope) is better in audio applications
such
> >as VCA, preamp, equalizer, and buffer.  I generally use a higher slew
rate
> >amp when summing CVs and related applications.  I have trouble beleiving
> >that the slew rate is the primary cause of the distortion that I have
> >noticed when using the OP 275, wouldn't it mostly indicate that a larger
> >bandwidth is possible without loss in linearity?
> >
> >
> >
> What I meant that the fast slew rate should actually reduce distortion
> for large signals.  There must be other factors that are resulting in
> you finding distortion on the OP275 relative to the OP270.  Personally I
> find the OP275s excellent (only used on +/-15V tho) - I tend to use them
> when I want something better for audio than the TL072.  Or I use the
> NE5532, but these are kind of current hungry.
>

Yes, beleive it or not, that's what I meant to, I just couldn't speak my
mind properly at that moment.  I must agree that the OP275 is bett for audio
than TL072.  I'm beginning to think that my love of the OP270's sound is
something intangable, akin to what an audiophile might experience.  ; )  In
all reality the datasheet would lead me to beleive that the OP275 is a
better amp, but I have yet to leave one in a socket.


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Sat Jan 21 09:53:17 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 09:53:17 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] papareil Dual lin ADSR
In-Reply-To: <43D04964.5292C45A@prodigy.net>
References: <20060119171315.27458.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> <c7ec5c48681ab4a6a56f214ef0cbbd3c@upian.com> <43D04964.5292C45A@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20060121085317.GA10895@atc5.vermine.org>

On 2006-01-19 21:22 -0500, harrybissell wrote:

> If you look at the resistors associated with the LEDs... in one
> case I see a 470 ohm resistor. If you added a 100 ohms in series
> (putting the resistor in place of 'self' adds a resistor in
> series with everything :^)....

"Self" is not as exotic as you think. It's short for "self
inductance". :-)

Guess what the French jargon for "inductive load" is ? Yep,
"charge selfique". :-)

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From rob at emulatorarchive.com  Sat Jan 21 11:31:51 2006
From: rob at emulatorarchive.com (Rob Keeble)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:31:51 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Op Amp Upgrades + Voltage Regs
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNKEJPLLAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>

Hi
I have been testing out various Op Amp upgrades over the last few weeks.

For CV's the OP177F and G and LT1012/1013 are low drift, low offset. Also
good for CV generating DAC's.
For audio I'm using OPA134/2134 with good results. Some of the modern fast
slew FET Op Amps are tricky to use because they can introduce distortion and
HF oscillation (Audiophiles also report this, as they search for the
ultimate sound).

There are useful reviews here (not mine):
http://tangentsoft.net/audio/opamps.html
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/webbop/op275.htm

There are more esoteric and expensive Op Amps about with zero offset or very
fast slew. The only one I am trying out is the SMT AD825 as a possible
replacement for the hard to find LM318, its needed for the core of the E-mu
Systems VCO. The speed is needed to generate an accurate sawtooth, although
Dave Rossum went a bit mad with the upper frequency which is well over
30kHz...

I tend to use NE5534/TL082 for prototyping and then move onto more expensive
Op Amps once the circuit works, looking out for HF oscillation with a scope.
Of course the 748 still has its uses, its so slow it used to create new
waveforms....

Rather off topic... But I am also testing out precision voltage regulators.
The LM723 and REFxx type regulators give 1mV of drift, in some VCO cores
this causes frequency drift that is audible. So I am trying out some ultra
low drift regulators (6ppm) with E-mu VCO, SSM2030 VCO. I'll publish some
results on the web site , comparing frequency stability with the excellent
Oakley Mk 2 VCO and the "all on a chip" CEM3340. One immediate finding is
that the frequency control pot(s)s should be driven from a low drift power
supply.

Regards
rob
www.emulatorarchive.com







From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan 21 17:48:14 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:48:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Modular Sequencer ideas posted at my Design section, if anyone's curious. :)
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601210848w4ad55a44yeff3909de5d6ba1@mail.gmail.com>

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/design.html

I just posted a few day's worth of notes that I'd been writing down at
work on paper.  I thought I'd better get them saved somewhere, before
I lost the pieces of paper with the ideas on them. :O :)

I thought I'd post a note here as to it's reference, in case anyone
were curious as to where I'm going with my sequencer designs, for the
next sequencer after the one that I'm currently building. :) 
(HOPEfully - I'll have the sequencer portion up and running TODAY. 
Delays in getting it done, have been a real drag. :( )

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2106 update


From patchell at cox.net  Sat Jan 21 18:47:10 2006
From: patchell at cox.net (James Patchell)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 09:47:10 -0800
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <64E08D31-49CB-421D-AD2B-604B52BAC837@asapnet.net>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>
 <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk>
 <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk>
 <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
 <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk>
 <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060121094445.022e9e18@pop.west.cox.net>

Actually, a perfect 24 bit sine wave would be 0.000006% distortion....

You are right...that would be extremely difficult to measure...I can think 
of several ways to do so...but it would be difficult...

At 12:36 AM 1/21/2006 -0600, Grant Richter wrote:

>>Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
>
>How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD
>

         -Jim
***************************************************************
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell

***************************************************************



From grichter at asapnet.net  Sat Jan 21 20:01:05 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 13:01:05 -0600
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20060121094445.022e9e18@pop.west.cox.net>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net> <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk> <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk> <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com> <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk> <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net> <5.2.1.1.2.20060121094445.022e9e18@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3BFC2277-4E05-4BD0-95D0-2B69FBAD9A46@asapnet.net>

Thanks Jim,

Do they have DACs with buffers that are linear enough to hit the  
theoretical limit?
That would have to be one trimmed up DAC (thinking old school).

Looking a the top of class AD1955 DAC with 110 dB S/N (110 dB / 6 dB  
per bit = 18 bits actual)
That would be around 4 microvolts of noise.

Nulling the fundamental method would require one good notch filter.

A single 24 bit LSB is something like 0.006 microvolt (1v pp).

I wonder about measuring or producing voltages that small and thermal  
noise.

What is the sound of a single electron flowing, and can we hear it?

(I know you can weigh a single electron, but can you measure a  
voltage difference accurately?)

On Jan 21, 2006, at 11:47 AM, James Patchell wrote:

> Actually, a perfect 24 bit sine wave would be 0.000006% distortion....
>
> You are right...that would be extremely difficult to measure...I  
> can think of several ways to do so...but it would be difficult...
>
> At 12:36 AM 1/21/2006 -0600, Grant Richter wrote:
>
>>> Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
>>
>> How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD
>>
>
>         -Jim
> ***************************************************************
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell
>
> ***************************************************************
>


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 21 20:01:19 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:01:19 -0700
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <64E08D31-49CB-421D-AD2B-604B52BAC837@asapnet.net>
References: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk>
 <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk>
 <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
 <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk>
 <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>
 <64E08D31-49CB-421D-AD2B-604B52BAC837@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060121114633.0340fd50@mail.earthlink.net>

At 11:36 PM 1/20/06, Grant Richter wrote:

>>Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
>
>How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD

I believe a 24 bit sine is better than that.  But, whatever, you can get a 
DVM with enough precision:
<http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/Product/cp_Product.jsp?LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&COUNTRY_CODE=US&NAV_ID=-11250.536881781.00&cmpid=96200> 


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 21 20:10:22 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:10:22 -0700
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <BAY115-F1115B09431F870225DC2C8B31E0@phx.gbl>
References: <64E08D31-49CB-421D-AD2B-604B52BAC837@asapnet.net>
 <BAY115-F1115B09431F870225DC2C8B31E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060121120142.03418560@mail.earthlink.net>

At 01:41 AM 1/21/06, Michael Ruberto wrote:
>sounds dreamy - where on earth is it sold?
>
>M. A. Ruberto

Digikey has OPA134 (etc.).  I've been using this family and the nearly 
identical OPA132 (etc.) for years as  integrators and servo amps in VCOs, e.g.,
http://home.earthlink.net/~ijfritz/sy_cir2.htm
It's always the first thing I grab when I need a good opamp.

   Ian 


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 21 20:40:40 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:40:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Op Amp Upgrades + Voltage Regs
In-Reply-To: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNKEJPLLAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>
 <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNKEJPLLAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060121121227.034198f0@mail.earthlink.net>

Hi Rob --  (inline)

At 03:31 AM 1/21/06, Rob Keeble wrote:
>Hi
>I have been testing out various Op Amp upgrades over the last few weeks.

Lots of good info.  Thanks for posting!


>For CV's the OP177F and G and LT1012/1013 are low drift, low offset. Also
>good for CV generating DAC's.

OPA227, OPA277, and LT1055/1056 also useful here.


>For audio I'm using OPA134/2134 with good results. Some of the modern fast
>slew FET Op Amps are tricky to use because they can introduce distortion and
>HF oscillation (Audiophiles also report this, as they search for the
>ultimate sound).
>
>There are useful reviews here (not mine):
>http://tangentsoft.net/audio/opamps.html
>http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/webbop/op275.htm
>
>There are more esoteric and expensive Op Amps about with zero offset or very
>fast slew. The only one I am trying out is the SMT AD825 as a possible
>replacement for the hard to find LM318,

Digikey has the LM318 in stock (although I wouldn't argue with upgrading).


>  its needed for the core of the E-mu
>Systems VCO. The speed is needed to generate an accurate sawtooth, although
>Dave Rossum went a bit mad with the upper frequency which is well over
>30kHz...

Well, that kind of madness is routine nowadays.  :-)   As an example, my 
Tri VCO tracks accurately up to 40 kHz:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ijfritz/sy_cir4.htm


>I tend to use NE5534/TL082 for prototyping and then move onto more expensive
>Op Amps once the circuit works, looking out for HF oscillation with a scope.

Yep.  However, it's easier sometimes to get HF oscs with the inexpensive 
devices.  Many of the newer devices have better stability designed in.


>Of course the 748 still has its uses, its so slow it used to create new
>waveforms....

Sure, and sometimes it's better than a filter for taking out switching 
glitches!


>Rather off topic... But I am also testing out precision voltage regulators.
>The LM723 and REFxx type regulators give 1mV of drift, in some VCO cores
>this causes frequency drift that is audible. So I am trying out some ultra
>low drift regulators (6ppm) with E-mu VCO, SSM2030 VCO. I'll publish some
>results on the web site , comparing frequency stability with the excellent
>Oakley Mk 2 VCO and the "all on a chip" CEM3340. One immediate finding is
>that the frequency control pot(s)s should be driven from a low drift power
>supply.

Yes, that has been much discussed here.  :-)

Many of us use voltage-reference sub-regulators for critical voltages, 
rather than highly regulated supplies.

Will be looking forward to your results.

   Ian 


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 21 20:50:54 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:50:54 -0700
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060121114633.0340fd50@mail.earthlink.net>
References: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk>
 <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk>
 <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
 <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk>
 <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>
 <64E08D31-49CB-421D-AD2B-604B52BAC837@asapnet.net>
 <6.2.1.2.2.20060121114633.0340fd50@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060121124948.0341be00@mail.earthlink.net>

At 12:01 PM 1/21/06, Ian Fritz wrote:
>At 11:36 PM 1/20/06, Grant Richter wrote:
>
>>>Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
>>
>>How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD
>
>I believe a 24 bit sine is better than that.  But, whatever, you can get a 
>DVM with enough precision:
><http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/Product/cp_Product.jsp?LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&COUNTRY_CODE=US&NAV_ID=-11250.536881781.00&cmpid=96200> 
>

Crap, that link has a timeout.  Just go to agilent.com and look up the 
3458A DVM. 


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Jan 21 21:15:30 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:15:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] papareil Dual lin ADSR
References: <20060119171315.27458.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> <c7ec5c48681ab4a6a56f214ef0cbbd3c@upian.com> <43D04964.5292C45A@prodigy.net> <43D1BC8C.8010F3C8@iposadas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <43D29662.DDE3E51@prodigy.net>

Yes !!!

The large electrolytics are a must here. In fact... yuo would prefer
'bad' electrotlyic caps... ones with HIGH ESR.  The series resistance
would help damp the circuit.

You would need a reall large current spike to "ring up" the inductor...
but if the locak capacitance was not enough, the overshoot could be
outrageous !!!

I play with inductors in the low nH to uH range... but currents of
hundreds to thousands of amps... Overshoots are an 'end of life' if not
handled correctly

H^) harry

fmg wrote:
> 
> harrybissell wrote:
> 
> > [...]
> 
> > The inductor and the capacitor after it... might also resonate at some
> > frequency
> > and make the problem worse.
> >
> 
> Much worse...
> 
> I use inductors every time I can in my projects (I build them all) but a thing
> I recommend is not to use them for filtering in a power rail *without* an
> electrolytic attached immediatly after it.
> When the case is that...that the circuit already has decoupling caps associated
> to TTLs, 555s or other 'transient-by-short-circuit generators' these devices
> takes charge from the capacitors for a short period of time in a manner the
> inductor really really really dislike.
> Under this situation the inductor feels this is a bad environment and invoke bad
> spirits to ruin everything. (I mean high voltage here... and everywhere)
> The electrolytic works in this case as a contention for its bad attitude. Its not
> a very common situation.. but happens. Other than that it performs very well for
> the purpose, and personally I... but... what I'm saying ?
> 
> <pause... looking at Bareille's schematics>
> 
> Ok, there are no 555s, TTLs or transistors sinking big currents and the
> electrolitycs are there, thats good.
> For that schematics I would use a pair of 1.5mH and change the 10uF capacitors for
> 470uF. I would also use reverse diode protection for the coils (in parallel with
> the electrolitycs) and for back-discharge in the regulators (if they are 7XXX)
> All this means more pcb space than expected but also means less PS impedance and
> less waste of power (than if the inductors were replaced by resistors).
> 
> Frederic: In part of your original post you said that your modular 'grew'. Just...
> did you let your PS grow accordingly ? ;-)
> 
> Fabio
> .


From grichter at asapnet.net  Sun Jan 22 02:00:12 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:00:12 -0600
Subject: SV: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <20060122002834.83057.qmail@web25512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060122002834.83057.qmail@web25512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <206884D8-6B04-48A7-8A75-F358F9A28A25@asapnet.net>

Your in the range of thermoelectric voltages produce by differing  
metals.
I think they call it the "Seebeck effect".

Probably a chapter on it in the DVM manual.
Must be some amazing common mode rejection to get rid of RF hash.

When I see figures like 0.00008% THD, I know it came from marketing  
and not engineering.

I mean what is the X bar distribution on THD for practical  
manufacturing?
Can the process be controlled? Do they test for the THD spec?

Silly numbers stuff.

On Jan 21, 2006, at 6:28 PM, karl dalen wrote:

> Oh! Impressive!
> ""8 1/2 digits with 10 nV DC resolution""!
>
> This is not any "off the shelf dual slope" ADC,ing thing!
>
> 10nV!! Slightest oxidation on a component
> leg would ruin that i suppose! There must be
> an entire manual of just cleansing legs before
> measurements!
>
> KD
>
> --- Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net> skrev:
>
>> At 12:01 PM 1/21/06, Ian Fritz wrote:
>>> At 11:36 PM 1/20/06, Grant Richter wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
>>>>
>>>> How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD
>>>
>>> I believe a 24 bit sine is better than that.  But, whatever, you  
>>> can get a
>>> DVM with enough precision:
>>
>> <http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/Product/ 
>> cp_Product.jsp? 
>> LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&COUNTRY_CODE=US&NAV_ID=-11250.536881781.00&cmpid=96 
>> 200>
>>
>>>
>>
>> Crap, that link has a timeout.  Just go to agilent.com and look up  
>> the
>> 3458A DVM.
>>
>>


From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Sun Jan 22 04:02:17 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:02:17 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] trigger to optocoupler is button?
References: <BAY109-F196F89BB00F03FEAF70081B51F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <006901c61f00$41308e00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>

Hi,

Many sound trigger buttons on toys just short an IC pin to the positive
supply voltage.  In this case, your only worry with triggering from a synth
is that the trigger is often a higher voltage than the supply of the toy.
When I have a toy that is supplied with equal voltage of the synths positive
rail, then I've found that the trigger can be delivered directs to the IC
pin side of the switch and it triggers fine.  Some toys with lower supply
voltages will still take the trigger and use it without damage.  Otherwise
you should be able to use a low value series resistor with a zener diode
shunt regulator on the toys trigger input, to clip the trigger at the right
voltage.  The zener could be rated at a bit higher than the toys supply
voltage.

Theres no reason in my opinion to use a bunch of extra parts for switching,
unless you have to, which would mean a toy that does not trigger in this
way.  Some use diode matrixes to know which button is being depressed.
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: [sdiy] trigger to optocoupler is button?


> Hi there,
>
> I would like to trigger some buttons on certain musical toys I have, using
> the triggers of my modular.
>
> Can I use an optocoupler for that?
>
> If so what type?
>
> If not..............any other suggestions are very welcome.
>
> Thanks...
>
> Greetings,
>
> Jean
>
>
>


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan 22 04:25:50 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:25:50 -0500
Subject: SV: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
References: <20060122002834.83057.qmail@web25512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <206884D8-6B04-48A7-8A75-F358F9A28A25@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <43D2FB3E.61D29E3F@prodigy.net>

I did an instrument for a major automotive customer.

They wanted to upgrade from a 12 bit A/D to a 16 bit A/D...

I told them "impossible"

They said, "oh no, we can just plug in this new card..."

except that they probably had two bits buried in the noise
floor of all the sensors already.

I told them if they were willing to pay me, I could put the
card in and give them SIX BITS of noise instead of two...
but that if they wanted six bite more SIGNAL they would have to do
a ground-up re-design :^P

sad, but true

H^) harry

Grant Richter wrote:
> 
> Your in the range of thermoelectric voltages produce by differing
> metals.
> I think they call it the "Seebeck effect".
> 
> Probably a chapter on it in the DVM manual.
> Must be some amazing common mode rejection to get rid of RF hash.
> 
> When I see figures like 0.00008% THD, I know it came from marketing
> and not engineering.
> 
> I mean what is the X bar distribution on THD for practical
> manufacturing?
> Can the process be controlled? Do they test for the THD spec?
> 
> Silly numbers stuff.
> 
> On Jan 21, 2006, at 6:28 PM, karl dalen wrote:
> 
> > Oh! Impressive!
> > ""8 1/2 digits with 10 nV DC resolution""!
> >
> > This is not any "off the shelf dual slope" ADC,ing thing!
> >
> > 10nV!! Slightest oxidation on a component
> > leg would ruin that i suppose! There must be
> > an entire manual of just cleansing legs before
> > measurements!
> >
> > KD
> >
> > --- Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net> skrev:
> >
> >> At 12:01 PM 1/21/06, Ian Fritz wrote:
> >>> At 11:36 PM 1/20/06, Grant Richter wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
> >>>>
> >>>> How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD
> >>>
> >>> I believe a 24 bit sine is better than that.  But, whatever, you
> >>> can get a
> >>> DVM with enough precision:
> >>
> >> <http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/Product/
> >> cp_Product.jsp?
> >> LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&COUNTRY_CODE=US&NAV_ID=-11250.536881781.00&cmpid=96
> >> 200>
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Crap, that link has a timeout.  Just go to agilent.com and look up
> >> the
> >> 3458A DVM.
> >>
> >>


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sun Jan 22 05:43:41 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 05:43:41 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: SV: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <206884D8-6B04-48A7-8A75-F358F9A28A25@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <20060122044341.5006.qmail@web25503.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

The latest thing i heard was "6 1/2 digits" 
and that was very good! 

HP has invented a way to calibrate it away! ;-)

http://www.uni-konstanz.de/physik/Jaeckle/papers/thermopower/node1.html

Anyhow it do sounds like what you say, sales talk!

REG
KD

--- Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net> skrev:

> Your in the range of thermoelectric voltages produce by differing  
> metals.
> I think they call it the "Seebeck effect".
> 
> Probably a chapter on it in the DVM manual.
> Must be some amazing common mode rejection to get rid of RF hash.
> 
> When I see figures like 0.00008% THD, I know it came from marketing  
> and not engineering.
> 
> I mean what is the X bar distribution on THD for practical  
> manufacturing?
> Can the process be controlled? Do they test for the THD spec?
> 
> Silly numbers stuff.
> 
> On Jan 21, 2006, at 6:28 PM, karl dalen wrote:
> 
> > Oh! Impressive!
> > ""8 1/2 digits with 10 nV DC resolution""!
> >
> > This is not any "off the shelf dual slope" ADC,ing thing!
> >
> > 10nV!! Slightest oxidation on a component
> > leg would ruin that i suppose! There must be
> > an entire manual of just cleansing legs before
> > measurements!
> >
> > KD
> >
> > --- Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net> skrev:
> >
> >> At 12:01 PM 1/21/06, Ian Fritz wrote:
> >>> At 11:36 PM 1/20/06, Grant Richter wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
> >>>>
> >>>> How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD
> >>>
> >>> I believe a 24 bit sine is better than that.  But, whatever, you  
> >>> can get a
> >>> DVM with enough precision:
> >>
> >> <http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/Product/ 
> >> cp_Product.jsp? 
> >> LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&COUNTRY_CODE=US&NAV_ID=-11250.536881781.00&cmpid=96 
> >> 200>
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Crap, that link has a timeout.  Just go to agilent.com and look up  
> >> the
> >> 3458A DVM.
> >>
> >>
> 
> 


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan 22 05:46:22 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 23:46:22 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff]
References: <43CD4749.1040802@burnit.co.uk> <43CD4BC7.9020204@burnit.co.uk>
		 <002101c61e22$9d868d00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
		 <43D17E50.9000009@burnit.co.uk>
		 <6.2.1.2.2.20060120182755.03425490@mail.earthlink.net>
		 <64E08D31-49CB-421D-AD2B-604B52BAC837@asapnet.net>
		 <6.2.1.2.2.20060121114633.0340fd50@mail.earthlink.net>
		 <be546e560601211745u58a824cfi510e27d3e58b2698@mail.gmail.com>
		 <43D2E901.4020504@burnit.co.uk> <be546e560601211822t4b72c58chdf67f86703aaf32d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43D30E1E.B1115647@prodigy.net>

yes... I can move the probes to the next point REALLY
fast...   :^P

H^) harry

Johannes ?berg wrote:
> 
> Yes, but does that improve test *throughput* ?
> 
> /J
> 
> On 1/22/06, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
> > maybe if you plug it into a PC it can be an oscilloscope?
> > Johannes ?berg wrote:
> > >Semi-OT: For some reason I followed the link to the Agilent DVM, and the ad says
> > >"Select a reading rate of 100,000 readings per second for maximal test
> > >throughput".
> > >I can't think of many people that could swap chips that fast, or
> > >follow the display for that matter. Seriously, in what application
> > >does 100,000 readings per second improve throughput from a DVM? Just
> > >curious, I'm sure the pros are paying for _something_.
> > >/J


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sun Jan 22 06:06:25 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:06:25 -0500
Subject: SV: Re: SV: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more  LM3900
 stuff]
References: <20060122044341.5006.qmail@web25503.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43D312D1.4E863411@prodigy.net>

And I hope it has a real good sample hold on the display...
8 1/2 digits by 100,000 samples a second ??? I'll light
the lab notebook on FIRE writing the values down so fast....

H^) harry

karl dalen wrote:
> 
> The latest thing i heard was "6 1/2 digits"
> and that was very good!
> 
> HP has invented a way to calibrate it away! ;-)
> 
> http://www.uni-konstanz.de/physik/Jaeckle/papers/thermopower/node1.html
> 
> Anyhow it do sounds like what you say, sales talk!
> 
> REG
> KD
> 
> --- Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net> skrev:
> 
> > Your in the range of thermoelectric voltages produce by differing
> > metals.
> > I think they call it the "Seebeck effect".
> >
> > Probably a chapter on it in the DVM manual.
> > Must be some amazing common mode rejection to get rid of RF hash.
> >
> > When I see figures like 0.00008% THD, I know it came from marketing
> > and not engineering.
> >
> > I mean what is the X bar distribution on THD for practical
> > manufacturing?
> > Can the process be controlled? Do they test for the THD spec?
> >
> > Silly numbers stuff.
> >
> > On Jan 21, 2006, at 6:28 PM, karl dalen wrote:
> >
> > > Oh! Impressive!
> > > ""8 1/2 digits with 10 nV DC resolution""!
> > >
> > > This is not any "off the shelf dual slope" ADC,ing thing!
> > >
> > > 10nV!! Slightest oxidation on a component
> > > leg would ruin that i suppose! There must be
> > > an entire manual of just cleansing legs before
> > > measurements!
> > >
> > > KD
> > >
> > > --- Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net> skrev:
> > >
> > >> At 12:01 PM 1/21/06, Ian Fritz wrote:
> > >>> At 11:36 PM 1/20/06, Grant Richter wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>> Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
> > >>>>
> > >>>> How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD
> > >>>
> > >>> I believe a 24 bit sine is better than that.  But, whatever, you
> > >>> can get a
> > >>> DVM with enough precision:
> > >>
> > >> <http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/Product/
> > >> cp_Product.jsp?
> > >> LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&COUNTRY_CODE=US&NAV_ID=-11250.536881781.00&cmpid=96
> > >> 200>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Crap, that link has a timeout.  Just go to agilent.com and look up
> > >> the
> > >> 3458A DVM.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >


From cfmd at bredband.net  Sun Jan 22 06:28:41 2006
From: cfmd at bredband.net (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 06:28:41 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: SV: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more
 LM3900 stuff]
In-Reply-To: <43D312D1.4E863411@prodigy.net>
References: <20060122044341.5006.qmail@web25503.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<43D312D1.4E863411@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <20060122.062841.121030913.cfmd@bredband.net>

From: harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: SV: Re: SV: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more LM3900 stuff]
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:06:25 -0500
Message-ID: <43D312D1.4E863411 at prodigy.net>

> And I hope it has a real good sample hold on the display...
> 8 1/2 digits by 100,000 samples a second ??? I'll light
> the lab notebook on FIRE writing the values down so fast....

Not quite as high resolution when going that rate and also, this is what you
got GPIB for on the backside. It is there as a lab notebook fire-prevention
measure cortesy of HP (now Agilents).

Hmm, I still haven't been able to tame my DMM over GPIB and it annoys me. I do
have the users manual but it doesn't help me. Morrrr...
Writing your own software doesn't help obviously. I really wish to have my two
HP 3457A under GPIB control just as many of the other instruments.

Cheers,
Magnus

> H^) harry
> 
> karl dalen wrote:
> > 
> > The latest thing i heard was "6 1/2 digits"
> > and that was very good!
> > 
> > HP has invented a way to calibrate it away! ;-)
> > 
> > http://www.uni-konstanz.de/physik/Jaeckle/papers/thermopower/node1.html
> > 
> > Anyhow it do sounds like what you say, sales talk!
> > 
> > REG
> > KD
> > 
> > --- Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net> skrev:
> > 
> > > Your in the range of thermoelectric voltages produce by differing
> > > metals.
> > > I think they call it the "Seebeck effect".
> > >
> > > Probably a chapter on it in the DVM manual.
> > > Must be some amazing common mode rejection to get rid of RF hash.
> > >
> > > When I see figures like 0.00008% THD, I know it came from marketing
> > > and not engineering.
> > >
> > > I mean what is the X bar distribution on THD for practical
> > > manufacturing?
> > > Can the process be controlled? Do they test for the THD spec?
> > >
> > > Silly numbers stuff.
> > >
> > > On Jan 21, 2006, at 6:28 PM, karl dalen wrote:
> > >
> > > > Oh! Impressive!
> > > > ""8 1/2 digits with 10 nV DC resolution""!
> > > >
> > > > This is not any "off the shelf dual slope" ADC,ing thing!
> > > >
> > > > 10nV!! Slightest oxidation on a component
> > > > leg would ruin that i suppose! There must be
> > > > an entire manual of just cleansing legs before
> > > > measurements!
> > > >
> > > > KD
> > > >
> > > > --- Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net> skrev:
> > > >
> > > >> At 12:01 PM 1/21/06, Ian Fritz wrote:
> > > >>> At 11:36 PM 1/20/06, Grant Richter wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I believe a 24 bit sine is better than that.  But, whatever, you
> > > >>> can get a
> > > >>> DVM with enough precision:
> > > >>
> > > >> <http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/Product/
> > > >> cp_Product.jsp?
> > > >> LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&COUNTRY_CODE=US&NAV_ID=-11250.536881781.00&cmpid=96
> > > >> 200>
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Crap, that link has a timeout.  Just go to agilent.com and look up
> > > >> the
> > > >> 3458A DVM.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >


From switchbladekey at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 16:49:45 2006
From: switchbladekey at gmail.com (S. P. W. )
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:49:45 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Starting synth repair business. What IC's to stock up on & general advice.
Message-ID: <7dde4aac0601220749w147d0138h51f453772cf143c7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am seriously considering starting up a synth repair business. Where
I live there is a need, and I have a number of contacts that would
send business my way as they currently have to tell people they don't
know anyone that can help.
Anyway, what would you stock up on, as far as IC's transistors opamps
etc. that you think will become hard to find in the future,  but are
available to some extent now (I am guessing the 3080 and 3280 recently
discussed would be good to stock.)

Now for the "general advice" request...

One of my first memorable injuries as a child was from dripping solder
on my leg when trying to solder the winder knob back onto my teddy
bear. For real. I have been a nerd for a long time, as I was still of
the age to have a teddy bear without being ridiculed by my peers when
this happened. Still have the scar, that was a third degree burn. It
sizzled. Ouch. My point is that I have the skills to do it, and have
the aptitude and experience not to fsck peoples equipment worse than
it is when it comes to me.

I have a multimeter,  frequency generator & analog oscilloscope (is a
digital one becoming a requirement?) I plan to concentrate on analog
stuff, and haven't messed with digital stuff much, how much harder is
that stuff to fix? I may well take a few EE or vocational school
courses to learn that world a bit better.

I currrently use plain old soldering & desoldering stuff, would you
get temp controlled stuff? I plan to set up a true antistatic work
area instead of relying on the "one hand on a metal surface in the
item" method. Any other tools that your standard electronics hobbyist
might not have? I am guessing if it needs SMD rework, it is probably
out of my league anyway, or is this becoming a needed tool even for
someone specializing in analog.

Other than using standard component & circuit  level troubleshooting
skills & getting a hold of the manual for everything I touch, are
there any gotchas or tricks anyone would like to share? (I read
"oldcrow's" tips site, great resource. Helped me to get the
articulation working right again on my Opus 3.)

Finally, any tips on how much to charge, or policies with regards to
dealing with musicians would be appreciated. I have been around this
world forever but have never tried to make any money in it, and
dealing with musicians on the level of money and responsibility can be
a bit dicey at times, I have heard & seen.

Our house is probably small enough that with any success I will need
to rent a shop. How many square feet is a good minimum? Synths in ATA
cases can take up room, so I am thinking I would need some storage for
waiting work & work to be picked up. Also, all that money in equipment
makes me nervous. Any tips on how secure a shop needs to be, or
insurance to carry would be appreciated. There is a long worldwide
history of theft and musical instruments going hand in hand.

I don't plan to quit my day job until it is costing me money to keep
it, so probably this will stay as a sideline permanently. Since I have
had problems with my last two bosses being jackasses you never know
what might happen long term as I'm not sure I want another person
telling me what to do. Last time I changed jobs because of a bad boss,
I went from the frying pan to the fire more or less. It is probably a
better idea to get out of the kitchen.

take care,

Steve

--
Darkness within darkness, The gateway to all understanding.
     - Lao Tzu


From klosmon at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 22 17:49:18 2006
From: klosmon at sbcglobal.net (klosmon)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 08:49:18 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [sdiy] Starting synth repair business. What IC's to stock
  up on & general advice.
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.1.20060122083457.03c7dec0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com>

Steve wrote:


>Hi all,
>
>I am seriously considering starting up a synth repair business. Where
>I live there is a need, and I have a number of contacts that would
>send business my way as they currently have to tell people they don't
>know anyone that can help.
>Anyway, what would you stock up on, as far as IC's transistors opamps
>etc. that you think will become hard to find in the future,  but are
>available to some extent now (I am guessing the 3080 and 3280 recently
>discussed would be good to stock.)

Hello --
It would depend largely on what synthesizers you are going to be working with.
For example, I repair a lot of Sequential Circuits machines -- this has 
required me to keep a large stock of CMOS DIP on hand (4051, 4016 & 66 
switches, etc).  TL082 opamps, 311 comparators, 74XX regulators, one HELL 
of a lot of 2.2uf/50 volt electrolytics. etc etc etc.

Just look at the schematics, think about the work you've done over the 
years, and you'll have some idea.

As for keeping in stock everything you need -- not necessarily a good idea, 
unless you have a lot of funds & space available.  I've found that orders 
from Jameco, Mouser, etc can arrive within a couple of days (even with 
minimal shipping charges).  As for custom & obsolete chips:  once again, 
depends on what you expect to be servicing.  I once purchased a number of 
Yamaha custom ICs, thinking they'd come in handy somewhere down the 
line;  after performing service on my 100th machine, I realized only ONE of 
them was a Yamaha, and it didn't need a custom IC replaced.  I've since 
sold those chips...

As for your "general advice" questions -- I could go on for days.
Simplest advice is:  get your feet wet, try working on a few machines, see 
what you need for parts & equipment (I've been repeatedly surprised at how 
LITTLE, aside from schematics & the ability to read them & reason from them 
is required to make dead machines live again).  You'll be able to see 
fairly soon what YOU need for your situation.

Good luck --

~GMM
http://www.analogsynthservice.com/

PS  the only thing I can say for certain about dealing with musicians is 
that they NEVER EVER EVER show up when they say they will -- don't cancel 
your dinner plans because one says he'll be there at 7:00.






From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 19:21:24 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:21:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Modular synth input/output protection.
In-Reply-To: <BFF968AD.516F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <43D3AE89.9040501@burnit.co.uk>
	 <BFF968AD.516F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601221021w2350cb33n459163243e30c418@mail.gmail.com>

This thread has given me an idea - that I'd like to know if anyone
else has already taken care of?  (I'm having a hard time, trying to
come up with a title for it.)

My thought is - to collect the guidelines / parameters / cautions /
etc., for safety in designing and building a module.  As Dave had
asked - is there a way to protect a system's outputs from being hooked
up to other outputs?  Is this something that we still have to worry
about, these days, or are precautions built into the chips that we're
building things around?  (Or, transistors for that matter - as they're
quite often used for output buffers.)

I'd like to collect all of this data (as I'd said above - if this
hasn't been done already) and post it to a relevant section on my
webpage, for others.

Another small thing that I thought of that would fit into this - I've
found with ALL of the LEDs that I'm building into my system, I have a
_HUGE_ variance in the amount of current that they need to come to a
usable brightness level. :O  Most of my Yellow and Green transistors
which can be up to 20 years old - require about 20mA of current to
come up to an acceptable brightness.
But the Purple and Soft Blue LEDs that I've just bought require the
BAREST amount of current to be normal brightness.  When they're given
a resistor that will give them about 20mA of current, they're bright
enough to cause a headache. :O  (2000 millicandellas?)
I'm going to have to do a fair bit of adjusting to come up with the
proper resistor values for all of my LEDs.  (I don't have data, on any
of them - to know there proper current supplies.)

Tips as to proper resistor values / current amounts for transistors
would be another bit of useful info.  (I thought of cross-references
between trannies and opamps, but I do believe there's at least one
collection of references to this, available.)

Anyhoo ...... I just had the further thought now - I'm going to do
this ANYways, if only for my own reference. :)  There may be
duplication in data, as to other sources, but ..... never hurts to
have more than one source. :D
I'll open a new webpage section for it. :)  It'll grow over time, as I
collect data for it. :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2106 update


From frankentron at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 22 20:19:18 2006
From: frankentron at hotmail.com (Michael Ruberto)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 14:19:18 -0500
Subject: Fwd: [sdiy] Starting synth repair business. What IC's to stock up on & gener
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20060122083457.03c7dec0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY115-F15E37F8911C948FCE205C3B3110@phx.gbl>

Another thing to think about is rework tools. You'll find that many 
instruments will need repairs to the PCBs themselves. This is especially 
true of modern instruments which tend to all have cheap epoxy PCBs. On 
modern synths it seems the largest source of failures is the PCBs that hold 
the panel controls. From vibration and improper handling these PCBs crack 
and traces are cut. Repairing these problems takes alot of patience and some 
specialized tools. A rework station is an expensive but wonderful item to 
have in your arsenal. I have gotten by for years without one so I always 
made sure I had a good supply of the following items.

Manual solder suckers - small and large.
Eyedroppers and syringes.
Small forcepts and scrapers.
conductive ink pens.
30 guage wire.
a range of different sized solder wicks.
15 watt iron with fine tips.
Plenty of cleaning agents e.g. flux remover, 100% alcohol, turpentine
rubber erasers.
glues and epoxies.
nail polish.
ESD protection gear

Sometimes older instruments can be a real handful to disassemble. I once 
serviced a Synthacon which looked as though it was constructed by cavemen. I 
actually needed a prybar and wrenches to get it apart. Then I needed some 
woodworking tools to reassemble it. Buy a wood chisel or 2. Hammers, 
prybars, and tin snips can be handy with older instruments at times.

In working on synths it's not uncommon to go from delicate operations such 
as PCB trace repair to bending metal and chiseling wood. Be prepared for it 
all.

M. A. Ruberto



>From: klosmon <klosmon at sbcglobal.net>
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: Fwd: [sdiy] Starting synth repair business. What IC's to stock  up 
>on & general advice.
>Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 08:49:18 -0800
>
>Steve wrote:
>
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I am seriously considering starting up a synth repair business. Where
>>I live there is a need, and I have a number of contacts that would
>>send business my way as they currently have to tell people they don't
>>know anyone that can help.
>>Anyway, what would you stock up on, as far as IC's transistors opamps
>>etc. that you think will become hard to find in the future,  but are
>>available to some extent now (I am guessing the 3080 and 3280 recently
>>discussed would be good to stock.)
>
>Hello --
>It would depend largely on what synthesizers you are going to be working 
>with.
>For example, I repair a lot of Sequential Circuits machines -- this has 
>required me to keep a large stock of CMOS DIP on hand (4051, 4016 & 66 
>switches, etc).  TL082 opamps, 311 comparators, 74XX regulators, one HELL 
>of a lot of 2.2uf/50 volt electrolytics. etc etc etc.
>
>Just look at the schematics, think about the work you've done over the 
>years, and you'll have some idea.
>
>As for keeping in stock everything you need -- not necessarily a good idea, 
>unless you have a lot of funds & space available.  I've found that orders 
>from Jameco, Mouser, etc can arrive within a couple of days (even with 
>minimal shipping charges).  As for custom & obsolete chips:  once again, 
>depends on what you expect to be servicing.  I once purchased a number of 
>Yamaha custom ICs, thinking they'd come in handy somewhere down the line;  
>after performing service on my 100th machine, I realized only ONE of them 
>was a Yamaha, and it didn't need a custom IC replaced.  I've since sold 
>those chips...
>
>As for your "general advice" questions -- I could go on for days.
>Simplest advice is:  get your feet wet, try working on a few machines, see 
>what you need for parts & equipment (I've been repeatedly surprised at how 
>LITTLE, aside from schematics & the ability to read them & reason from them 
>is required to make dead machines live again).  You'll be able to see 
>fairly soon what YOU need for your situation.
>
>Good luck --
>
>~GMM
>http://www.analogsynthservice.com/
>
>PS  the only thing I can say for certain about dealing with musicians is 
>that they NEVER EVER EVER show up when they say they will -- don't cancel 
>your dinner plans because one says he'll be there at 7:00.
>
>
>
>
>



From klosmon at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 22 20:28:00 2006
From: klosmon at sbcglobal.net (klosmon)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:28:00 -0800
Subject: Fwd: RE: Fwd: [sdiy] Starting synth repair business. What IC's
  to stock up on & gener
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.1.20060122112116.03a6abf8@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com>

Michael wrote:

>  You'll find that many instruments will need repairs to the PCBs 
> themselves. This is especially true of modern instruments which tend to 
> all have cheap epoxy PCBs. On modern synths it seems the largest source 
> of failures is the PCBs that hold the panel controls. From vibration and 
> improper handling these PCBs crack and traces are cut. Repairing these 
> problems takes alot of patience and some specialized tools.

Yes, you can expect to encounter a wide range of board types.

My current nominee for the all-time worst board to deal with is the 
EML-101;  it has those cheap solder-trace connections (as on the Odyssey 
boards), but with component lead layout making even less sense -- 
everything seems to be jammed together any which way, with random-looking 
blobs of solder running through everything.  Desoldering & removing one 
component can disrupt a half-dozen adjoining components, with no good 
reference to where everything was supposed to go.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Patience is the thing you'll need 
most, along with ability to read (sometimes misleading) schematics and a 
good reasoning facility.

But if you've been working with synths all these years, you probably 
already know this....

~GMM



From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 20:57:57 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:57:57 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Modular synth input/output protection.
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601221021w2350cb33n459163243e30c418@mail.gmail.com>
References: <43D3AE89.9040501@burnit.co.uk>
	 <BFF968AD.516F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
	 <b6b288a70601221021w2350cb33n459163243e30c418@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87441170601221157g1accdefbw1ad9d01aa9403c13@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/22/06, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. <rykhaard at gmail.com> wrote:
> This thread has given me an idea - that I'd like to know if anyone
> else has already taken care of?  (I'm having a hard time, trying to
> come up with a title for it.)
>
> My thought is - to collect the guidelines / parameters / cautions /
> etc., for safety in designing and building a module.  As Dave had
> asked - is there a way to protect a system's outputs from being hooked
> up to other outputs?  Is this something that we still have to worry
> about, these days, or are precautions built into the chips that we're
> building things around?  (Or, transistors for that matter - as they're
> quite often used for output buffers.)
>
snip...
>
> --
> Take care,
> Warmth and Peace,
> Ryk
>

Hey Ryk,

Here's an excerpt from Thomas Henry's Drum Cookbook. This section
talks about synth standards and is itself from Bernie Hutchin's
Electronotes:

*************************************************
CONTROL INPUTS
?Voltage:           0 to +5V
?Impedance:     100K Ohm
?Overvoltage and reverse voltage protected

AUDIO INPUTS
?Voltage:           ?5V
?Impedance:     100K Ohm
?100k attenuators on the inputs
?DC coupled where possible

AUDIO OUTPUTS
?Voltage:           ?5V
?Impedance:     1K Ohm
?DC coupled where possible
?Short circuit protected
******************************************

>From what I can see, the protections listed above are taken care of by
standard buffers on inputs and outputs, including 100k resistors on
inputs going into an op amp buffer, and 1k resistors on outputs
(usually coming from an op amp buffer). One place to watch out might
be digital I/O. This is where I would probably use a resistor, zener,
or schotky diodes to ground and +V (the digital supply).

Tim (enjoying a lazy Sunday morning) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 21:07:24 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 15:07:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Modular Synthesizer Designing & Reference Information - open to submissions. :)
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601221207p54ffd5f6kfeeadeebe60c041e@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all.  The new section for beginners is started on my site.  If
anyone would be willing to submit information for posting in it, let
me know.  I'll be crediting everyone that submits stuff for it,
whether it be textual or graphic as well. :)

The section ONLY has 3 resistor diagrams with titles at the moment -
but I eventually hope to have as large a collection of info. up there
for beginners as possible. :)  I know how valuable I've always found
info. on the net. over the past years, and hope to be able to help
others as much as I'm capable of and willing to. :)

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/reference.html

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2206 update


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sun Jan 22 21:09:18 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:09:18 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] GPIB
In-Reply-To: <20060122.062841.121030913.cfmd@bredband.net>
Message-ID: <20060122200918.7719.qmail@web25508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

The fact is that many older HP instruments with GPIB, inbuilt
or as an extra option has different GPIB software firmvare
revisions and simply dont talk to each other!!

I have come across this several times!

GPIB is a chore, a fart, an old and ugly and slow and beast
and,,,,,,, fill in your own. HP GPIB is a drag really!

There is many examples of ""high end" instrument from various
manufacturers who claim they following the standard still dont talk to each
other!

Many problems arise in the chaining of instruments to the master!
We even had termination problems on one new 1994's HP vector
analyser! Redicoulus problem considering the speed of GPIB!

If there is a RS232 option in your HP instruments, install it
and  forget about GPIB. Its even a million times simpler to
write a data extraction driver rutine for that then GPIB.
Adressing of the data are usually listed in the back of 
the manual. 

GPIB is so boring i even dont want to talk about it!! 

KD

--- Magnus Danielson <cfmd at bredband.net> skrev:

> From: harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net>
> Subject: Re: SV: Re: SV: Re: [Fwd: Re: Op Amp pinouts was Re: [sdiy] more
> LM3900 stuff]
> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:06:25 -0500
> Message-ID: <43D312D1.4E863411 at prodigy.net>
> 
> > And I hope it has a real good sample hold on the display...
> > 8 1/2 digits by 100,000 samples a second ??? I'll light
> > the lab notebook on FIRE writing the values down so fast....
> 
> Not quite as high resolution when going that rate and also, this is what you
> got GPIB for on the backside. It is there as a lab notebook fire-prevention
> measure cortesy of HP (now Agilents).
> 
> Hmm, I still haven't been able to tame my DMM over GPIB and it annoys me. I
> do
> have the users manual but it doesn't help me. Morrrr...
> Writing your own software doesn't help obviously. I really wish to have my
> two
> HP 3457A under GPIB control just as many of the other instruments.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> 
> > H^) harry
> > 
> > karl dalen wrote:
> > > 
> > > The latest thing i heard was "6 1/2 digits"
> > > and that was very good!
> > > 
> > > HP has invented a way to calibrate it away! ;-)
> > > 
> > > http://www.uni-konstanz.de/physik/Jaeckle/papers/thermopower/node1.html
> > > 
> > > Anyhow it do sounds like what you say, sales talk!
> > > 
> > > REG
> > > KD
> > > 
> > > --- Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net> skrev:
> > > 
> > > > Your in the range of thermoelectric voltages produce by differing
> > > > metals.
> > > > I think they call it the "Seebeck effect".
> > > >
> > > > Probably a chapter on it in the DVM manual.
> > > > Must be some amazing common mode rejection to get rid of RF hash.
> > > >
> > > > When I see figures like 0.00008% THD, I know it came from marketing
> > > > and not engineering.
> > > >
> > > > I mean what is the X bar distribution on THD for practical
> > > > manufacturing?
> > > > Can the process be controlled? Do they test for the THD spec?
> > > >
> > > > Silly numbers stuff.
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 21, 2006, at 6:28 PM, karl dalen wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Oh! Impressive!
> > > > > ""8 1/2 digits with 10 nV DC resolution""!
> > > > >
> > > > > This is not any "off the shelf dual slope" ADC,ing thing!
> > > > >
> > > > > 10nV!! Slightest oxidation on a component
> > > > > leg would ruin that i suppose! There must be
> > > > > an entire manual of just cleansing legs before
> > > > > measurements!
> > > > >
> > > > > KD
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Ian Fritz <ijfritz at earthlink.net> skrev:
> > > > >
> > > > >> At 12:01 PM 1/21/06, Ian Fritz wrote:
> > > > >>> At 11:36 PM 1/20/06, Grant Richter wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>> Have you looked at the OPA134?  Distortion = .00008%
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> How do you even measure that? A 24 bit sine wave is 0.001% THD
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I believe a 24 bit sine is better than that.  But, whatever, you
> > > > >>> can get a
> > > > >>> DVM with enough precision:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> <http://www.home.agilent.com/cgi-bin/pub/agilent/Product/
> > > > >> cp_Product.jsp?
> > > > >>
> LANGUAGE_CODE=eng&COUNTRY_CODE=US&NAV_ID=-11250.536881781.00&cmpid=96
> > > > >> 200>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Crap, that link has a timeout.  Just go to agilent.com and look up
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> 3458A DVM.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> 


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sun Jan 22 21:48:10 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:48:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Semi OT.. Toyocom TCO,scillator!
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601221207p54ffd5f6kfeeadeebe60c041e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060122204810.97528.qmail@web25504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

If you open up a typical canned TCO crystal, inside
soldered onto the ceramic substrate is a chip
6532a (i asume is a crystal driver) but are TCO's
temperature compensated by such a chip by varicap!
yes/no?

Or have i mixed it up with TCXO,s?
(VCOs, OCXOs, VCXOs, TCXOs, VCTCXOs, DROs, many to chose from).

I had the idea to heat up the TCO to get a better PPM from it!
Isnt actually so that a TCO without x init is simply a plain
un temp compensated crystal with its driver?

KD



From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Sun Jan 22 22:13:20 2006
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:13:20 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Modular synth input/output protection.
Message-ID: <20060122211320.9EA6D2A0@duckula.hotkey.net.au>

>Any fans of ?10V out there? or would it be wise to scale everything down to
>?5V?
>I notice some CGS modules can handle ?10V.....

Unless specified, CGS modules can handle near rail to rail (or even greater)
at the inputs. Some of the earlier modules have rather hot outputs though.
Easilly modified with the addition of a resistor to earth.

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au or sasami at cgs.synth.net
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Jan 22 22:26:07 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:26:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Modular synth input/output protection.
In-Reply-To: <BFF968AD.516F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <BFF968AD.516F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <43D3F86F.3020703@burnit.co.uk>

Most inputs will generally already have summer buffers (i.e. large e.g. 
100K resistor from input to opamp inverting input which is at virtual 
ground).
This is better than a voltage follower buffer because it will not suffer 
over-voltage damage.  A voltage follow input buffer would have the input 
connected *directly* to the non-inverting opamp input which could be 
damaged if over-voltage is applied.

As for outputs, most modern opamps are short-circuit safe, but consider 
if you connected a +10V output to a -10V output.  This is a worse case 
than simply short-circuit.  So many designs have something like a 1K 
series resistor on the opamp output to limit the current.  If you need a 
lower output impedance then you could use 100R instead, but 1K offers 
more protection.  A good trick, especially for critical CVs, is to put 
this series resistor *inside* the feedback loop so the opamp 
automatically compensates for the voltage drop across the resistor (if 
it's a voltage follower, you will also need another larger resistor in 
the feedback loop from the module output back to the opamp inverting input.

Bottom line is: don't worry too much: most modules should already be 
designed pretty resilient.  Best thing is to check the schematic of each 
one and if necessary make any changes .. e.g. in the following cases:

(a) Input is direct to an IC (maybe for some kinds of digital modules?)
SOLUTION: schottky diodes connected from input to Vmax, and from Vmin to 
input.

(b) Output is coming direct from IC output
SOLUTION: if output is an opamp, add a series resistor *inside* feedback 
loop.
SOLUTION: if output is not buffered, add an opamp voltage follower with 
10K + 1K resistors in series in the feedback loop.  Connect the module 
output to the mid point of the 2 resistors.

I hope this helps.

Seb


Dave Kendall wrote:

>Thanks Seb.
>
>  
>
>>................ perhaps if you wanted to protect over-voltage being
>>fed into outputs (can you trust people not to feed outputs to outputs?)
>>    
>>
>
>Knowing some of my friends, er..., that would be the first thing they'd
>manage to do :-)
>Is there a good scheme for protecting outputs? I've been thinking about
>op-amp voltage followers as buffers on both inputs and outputs of all
>modules.
>Some of the modules I'm building have an output directly from an op amp,
>sometimes via a 1k series resistor, sometimes straight out with a
>(typically) 100K resistor to GND. How easily could damage be done ?
>
>cheers,
>
>Dave (with dodgy muso mates...)
>
>  
>
>>Seb
>>
>>
>>
>>Dave Kendall wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hi all.
>>>
>>>As my growing modular may be (mis)used occasionally by musician friends,
>>>(and me, come to think of it....) I'm thinking about protecting all inputs,
>>>audio and control, against over-voltage, and general blowing-up type stuff
>>>;-)
>>>I guess CV inputs could be quickly overloaded if several sources are mixed
>>>and fed into them? Most of the modules are ?15V, and a few will be ?12V.
>>>
>>>Is there a "standard" and relatively cheap way of doing this? I was thinking
>>>of setting a ?10V limit on voltages in the system, so modules running on
>>>?12V and ?15V would both be usable.
>>>
>>>Zener diodes come to mind as a way of protecting inputs, and for ICs,
>>>there's Ken Stone's neat +14.4V -0.6V trick which, although explained on his
>>>site, I can't quite get my head around.......
>>>
>>>I'm sure this is all well-trodden ground, but I'm a bit in the dark as to
>>>the best way to stop the modules accidentally frying...
>>>
>>>Any tips gratefully received.
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>
>>>Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>
>
>
>
>  
>


From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 22:32:05 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:32:05 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Modular synth input/output protection.
In-Reply-To: <BFF99A91.517F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <87441170601221157g1accdefbw1ad9d01aa9403c13@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BFF99A91.517F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <87441170601221332p53424044ref7877a02975db60@mail.gmail.com>

One nice thing about ?5V signals: you can use standard analog switches
(4016, 4066). One could even make a point for ?2.5V signals, which
would allow you to use a lot of those nifty digital pots out there.
And of course, the Minimoog runs its rails at ?10V, so I would think
it's signal levels are around ?5 to 7V, correct?

Tim (fan of whatever works) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

****************
On 1/22/06, Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Any fans of ?10V out there? or would it be wise to scale everything down to
> ?5V?
> I notice some CGS modules can handle ?10V.....
> Just wondering...
>
> Dave
> >
> > Here's an excerpt from Thomas Henry's Drum Cookbook. This section
> > talks about synth standards and is itself from Bernie Hutchin's
> > Electronotes:
> >
> > *************************************************
> > CONTROL INPUTS
> > ?Voltage:           0 to +5V
> > ?Impedance:     100K Ohm
> > ?Overvoltage and reverse voltage protected
> >
> > AUDIO INPUTS
> > ?Voltage:           ?5V
> > ?Impedance:     100K Ohm
> > ?100k attenuators on the inputs
> > ?DC coupled where possible
> >
> > AUDIO OUTPUTS
> > ?Voltage:           ?5V
> > ?Impedance:     1K Ohm
> > ?DC coupled where possible
> > ?Short circuit protected
> > ******************************************
> >
> > From what I can see, the protections listed above are taken care of by
> > standard buffers on inputs and outputs, including 100k resistors on
> > inputs going into an op amp buffer, and 1k resistors on outputs
> > (usually coming from an op amp buffer). One place to watch out might
> > be digital I/O. This is where I would probably use a resistor, zener,
> > or schotky diodes to ground and +V (the digital supply).
> >
> > Tim (enjoying a lazy Sunday morning) Servo
> > --
> > "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
> >
>
>
>


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 00:25:54 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:25:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Modular synth input/output protection.
In-Reply-To: <002401c61fa5$9d939e80$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
References: <BFF99A91.517F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
	 <002401c61fa5$9d939e80$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601221525m61387100v5ae986a35df848a3@mail.gmail.com>

All of the muchlee appreciated info., does put a little bit of fuzz
into things for me. :-/
I'm currently hooking up the 8 x step, Gate functions for my
sequencer.  Following the example Ken Stone used on one of his modules
- Tranny through LED to a 1K to output, then 2K (he'd used 2K2) to
Ground.

This will drop my +15V input to the tranny, to +10V, for the Gates.

Running my CMOS on +15V/Ground, I need to be above +15/2 (or +7.5V)
for things to happen - hence, keeping my Gates at +10V.

But (the fuzz) - I stay with +10 / +/-10V on everything else in the
machine, or drop down to +/-5V for controllers and AC?  (My 2 x LFOs
are currently unedited at +/- 2.5 Sine, Triangle and +/- 8V or so on
Square.  I left them this way, as I was in a rush to get my 1st 2
modules up and running, back in July. ;)  LOL)

My ADSR outputs though, are about +10V.  (I'm thinking that I should
stick with the +10V / +/-10V for everything.  Still have to fix most
of the outputs from T. Gamble's VCO4D. Built it EXACTLY has he had it
in the schematic.)

Heck.  Most is at 10V ..... I'm going to stick with that. :D

(Building tip!! :O :O :O  PLAN, PLAN, PLAN - E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G when
designing a circuit!  Wasted 90 minutes this afternoon, in laying out
the daughter board for my sequencer. :O :O  Thankfully realized the
error before I was too far into it, and corrected all of the resistor
hookups to the transistor buffers, for the 8 x Gate outputs. :O
This dang 'building on a whim', isn't always reliable.  PLAN, PLAN,
PLAN!  Haha. :D )

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2106 update


From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Mon Jan 23 01:14:07 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:14:07 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] trigger to optocoupler is button?
References: <BAY109-F196F89BB00F03FEAF70081B51F0@phx.gbl> <006901c61f00$41308e00$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com> <E7DB63EB-2A52-4973-955B-C7F20ED7F951@experimentalistsanonymous.com> <000b01c61f84$b97478c0$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com> <AFC12BDF-7EEE-409A-BAFD-43847C0D5B01@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c61fb1$ed99f440$3ad8bc42@roc.mn.charter.com>

I accidentally steered this off-list...

There's two things going on there.  One is intentional: the need to bring a
bit of unpredictability to my module collection, which was succesful.  The
other is unintentional and due to laziness/lack of knowledge.  I could
probably set the mods up a bit better, because some knob settings crash the
module most of the time.  This is very reminiscent of many bent toys, and I
don't mind it, so I haven't changed it.

The real reason I have it in there is to have a unique sound source.  It is
a VCO in most ways, but it has rudimentary speech synthesis which is synced
in pitch with the oscillation.  The phenomes can be grabbed and looped in
simple ways with pulses, and the speech can be turned off.  The oscillator
can also be turned down so you can have speech only output.  It also has
simple gating of the output.  So it's hard to get a module with capabilities
like this, and I'm glad to have it there, even if it does crash on occasion.
(and the pitch knob sweeps backward....oops...)   : )

Colin Raffel wrote:


> That's quite interesting... I remember how way back when you had that
> toy rigged up in your modular synth, and it crashed while making
> sounds, and you said "Well, it is still just a circuit bent toy..."
> It's weird because until you said that, since it was ina  synth, I
> just assumed it was going to work flawlessly.
>
> -Colin
>
> On Jan 22, 2006, at 1:50 PM, Pat Kammerer wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Colin Raffel <colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com>
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] trigger to optocoupler is button?
> >
> >
> >> Pat-I was waiting for you to answer this one :)
> >>
> >
> > Hehehe, yeah I like this kind of stuff.  In general I'm sick of
> > simple toys
> > that play a sound a button is pressed, but when they can be creatively
> > triggered then they create a sound wholly unlike the original toy.
> > I'm more
> > enthralled with toy keyboards as far as stand alone circuit bending
> > targets
> > go.
> >
> > I did the type of triggering I described on a playskool radio type
> > toy that
> > plays four songs in each of four "genres".  It has an internal
> > sequencer,
> > but it triggers fine from LFOs on my synth. When the speed of
> > triggering is
> > fairly slow, the toy will play the first few notes of a song then
> > the next
> > trigger will play the first few notes of the song that it's patched
> > to,
> > etc...  This makes it possible to make completely new synth-like
> > sequences
> > with just a trigger sequencer, or simple sequences with just an
> > LFO.  The
> > toy also sports FM and AM inputs for mangling the loops that are being
> > played.
> >
> >
>
>


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 23 02:14:41 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:14:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Modular synth input/output protection.
References: <43D3AE89.9040501@burnit.co.uk>
		 <BFF968AD.516F%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
		 <b6b288a70601221021w2350cb33n459163243e30c418@mail.gmail.com> <87441170601221157g1accdefbw1ad9d01aa9403c13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12D3FB18.99B5A236@prodigy.net>

BE SURE that if you use zener, or shottky diode clamps that you have
series limiting resistance between them and the real world.

If not, youre just inviting the real world to ride your power supply
instead of
the module input... another recipe for disaster as well a blowing up the
zener etc.

If you cannot stand series resistance, consider using a Polyswitch fuse.
It is only a couple of ohms, but in a fault it gets hot and could go up
to 5K or so, limiting current to a safe value. I would not use these on
critical CV inputs for pitch (they will change slightly with
temperature) but
for audio ins or outs they'd be fine.

Have you considered assasination ??? KILL your friends if they patch
output to output :^P

H^) harry

Tim Parkhurst wrote:
> 
> On 1/22/06, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. <rykhaard at gmail.com> wrote:
> > This thread has given me an idea - that I'd like to know if anyone
> > else has already taken care of?  (I'm having a hard time, trying to
> > come up with a title for it.)
> >
> > My thought is - to collect the guidelines / parameters / cautions /
> > etc., for safety in designing and building a module.  As Dave had
> > asked - is there a way to protect a system's outputs from being hooked
> > up to other outputs?  Is this something that we still have to worry
> > about, these days, or are precautions built into the chips that we're
> > building things around?  (Or, transistors for that matter - as they're
> > quite often used for output buffers.)
> >
> snip...
> >
> > --
> > Take care,
> > Warmth and Peace,
> > Ryk
> >
> 
> Hey Ryk,
> 
> Here's an excerpt from Thomas Henry's Drum Cookbook. This section
> talks about synth standards and is itself from Bernie Hutchin's
> Electronotes:
> 
> *************************************************
> CONTROL INPUTS
> ?Voltage:           0 to +5V
> ?Impedance:     100K Ohm
> ?Overvoltage and reverse voltage protected
> 
> AUDIO INPUTS
> ?Voltage:           ?5V
> ?Impedance:     100K Ohm
> ?100k attenuators on the inputs
> ?DC coupled where possible
> 
> AUDIO OUTPUTS
> ?Voltage:           ?5V
> ?Impedance:     1K Ohm
> ?DC coupled where possible
> ?Short circuit protected
> ******************************************
> 
> >From what I can see, the protections listed above are taken care of by
> standard buffers on inputs and outputs, including 100k resistors on
> inputs going into an op amp buffer, and 1k resistors on outputs
> (usually coming from an op amp buffer). One place to watch out might
> be digital I/O. This is where I would probably use a resistor, zener,
> or schotky diodes to ground and +V (the digital supply).
> 
> Tim (enjoying a lazy Sunday morning) Servo
> --
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


From starpause at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 19:59:38 2006
From: starpause at gmail.com (STRPSE_K9D _)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:59:38 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Modular Synthesizer Designing & Reference Information - open to submissions. :)
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601221511y7b69aae9n13928fad721568a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b288a70601221207p54ffd5f6kfeeadeebe60c041e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <200601222219.k0MMJeG9013618@dropmix>
	 <b6b288a70601221511y7b69aae9n13928fad721568a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c1ea3d50601231059l557fcceamd739d0175a6868b3@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/22/06, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. <rykhaard at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/22/06, phil macnutt <philmacnutt at mac.com> wrote:
> > Ryk,
> > What sort of format would you like information sent to you in?  text is
> > easy, but with graphics, do you have any preference?
> >
> > Phil
>
> Many thanks in advance, Phil!  :D  ANY format is fine, as I'll edit /
> cut-paste / re-shape here to fit.  (Don't ask how to fit WHAT!  Haha.
> :D  I've barely planned anything out shape-wise yet. ;)  Not too
> concerned about the format that I build - as long as it's orderly
> enough / easy to follow. :) )
>

<http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/reference.html>

this is cool, but are there any wikis on the topic? they are the best! =)

<3
j.0rdan

--
netlabel: http://mp3death.us/
fm broadcast: http://cockroaches.get2.us/


From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Jan 24 01:22:24 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 01:22:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Variable log-lin converter...?
References: <30654234-D4DE-4120-B253-3CC58FC09E48@metronet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001a01c6207c$4108ff20$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

Just use a Panpot (or VC Pan circuit) and route it to a VCO's lin and expo
FM inputs.

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matthew Padden" <matthew.padden at metronet.co.uk>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:39 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Variable log-lin converter...?


> Hi,
> 
> This is one of those late-night-random-angle type of things, which of  
> course may have been addressed numerous times elsewhere, but...
> 
> Has anyone tried making a CV converter which can be adjusted smoothly  
> from a linear response to exponential? Example: when modulating one  
> VCO from another, you could transition smoothly from 'true' linear FM  
> modulation through to exponential cross-modulation, enjoying all the  
> changes in between.
> 
> Obviously not much use for keyboard tracking or the like.
> 
> Matt
> matthew.padden at metronet.co.uk
> 
> "Get crazy with the cheese whisk"        [Beck]
> 
> 


From jays at aracnet.com  Tue Jan 24 02:53:39 2006
From: jays at aracnet.com (jays at aracnet.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:53:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] preamp or other secret weapons for lo-fi ness a la Basic Channel/Deep Chord... broken filter like Pole?
Message-ID: <200601240153.k0O1rdTY017417@sapphire.spiritone.com>

Danjel,

One technique that some people use is run the sound source though a bandpass filter, run a noise source though a bandpass and then mix them together. I've heard it used quit a bit on voice. Good for robot voices, old time radio or phonograph (add some wow and flutter with a LFO in there somewhere). Sort of a simple vocoder.

If you can take seperate high pass and low pass filters to make your band pass filter. That gives you lots of options to control the width and Q of each filter.

Jay S.

Danjel van Tijn wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am a big fan of Rhythm and SOund/Basic Channel and Deep Chord. Those guys
> make use old analog synths (like Prophet V),t ape delays, perhaps resonators
> to create warm and fuzzy minimal dub techno.
> 
> I don't have a space echo (but I am lookign for one). What are some other
> good tricks for developing noisy, random sound sources?
> I have thought of building purposely noisy and glitchy tube preamps... or
> perhaps a home made tape echo... room is a consideration (e.g. I am avoiding
> using reel-to-reels as tape echos).  Any other ideas??
> 
> I know that Pole (Stefan Betke) had a broken waldorf filter that he used to
> generate static and glitches beautifully.
> 
> cheers,
>     Danjel


From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Jan 24 04:56:46 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:56:46 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] preamp or other secret weapons for lo-fi ness a la  BasicChannel/Deep Chord... broken filter like Pole?
In-Reply-To: <43D58A0E.19B58998@prodigy.net>
References: <fc3b811d0601231451p6b37a03br36ef90ecd462729b@mail.gmail.com> <43D58381.7050504@burnit.co.uk> <43D58A0E.19B58998@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <24A8CEA5-C45A-41C2-B7AA-35595C42CE7F@asapnet.net>

My friend Peder Hedman, whose stage name was "Lord Fuzzy", used to  
chop his shielded guitar cable into 10 to 12 pieces.

Then he would put it back together very poorly with rat tail splices,  
no solder and masking tape.

He could add Lo-Fi effects by just moving the cord around.

RF pickup, intermittent noise, complete drop outs, crackling,  
humming, buzzing...

Feedback could get really chaotic when audio vibrated the cord, like  
touching the amp cabinet.

I kid you not.

Disclaimer: Please restrict use of this technique to UL Class 2  
wiring with intrinsic power of less than 0.1 volt-ampere.
(OK Harry?)

>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am a big fan of Rhythm and SOund/Basic Channel and Deep Chord.  
>>> Those
>>> guys make use old analog synths (like Prophet V),t ape delays,  
>>> perhaps
>>> resonators to create warm and fuzzy minimal dub techno.
>>>
>>> I don't have a space echo (but I am lookign for one). What are some
>>> other good tricks for developing noisy, random sound sources?
>>> I have thought of building purposely noisy and glitchy tube  
>>> preamps...
>>> or perhaps a home made tape echo... room is a consideration (e.g.  
>>> I am
>>> avoiding using reel-to-reels as tape echos).  Any other ideas??
>>>
>>> I know that Pole (Stefan Betke) had a broken waldorf filter that he
>>> used to generate static and glitches beautifully.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>     Danjel


From timexheater at comcast.net  Tue Jan 24 05:17:44 2006
From: timexheater at comcast.net (NATE!)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:17:44 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] preamp or other secret weapons for lo-fi ness a la Basic Channel/Deep Chord... broken filter like Pole?
References: <fc3b811d0601231451p6b37a03br36ef90ecd462729b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002701c6209d$2258ff50$6401a8c0@NATHANTHIRMSZ>

well of course a nice round compressor for the bass is definitely KEY for
any dub [i like multiband compressors a lot now]... also cheap preamps are
always good for warmth too... not newer stuff [behringer is usually too
crisp] but you can find old budget gear cheap of course, get a preamp and
poke around and you should get some neat results. overdriving analog stuff
is always a good cheap way to get that kind of tubey overdriven sound.

since space echo is soooo expensive, take a look at the univox ec-80 echo
chamber... you can pick them up under 100usd on ebay, and they're pretty
decent. i just wish mine was cleaner [starts to feedback almost instantly
with no input] and you can mod it for some really long delay times... guitar
pedals too! i didn't think i'd use my phaser pedal ever again until i got
into dub, and the ibanez tone lok delay is nice because it's switchable from
echo/delay... panning too... stick the delay before a panner and have it on
an effects bus - you're set for 50% of all dub effects :)

another good tool is anything that operates kind of semirandomly... i do
this with my nord micromodular on EQ patches and synth patches, gives a nice
analog feel.

for the past three or four months i've been absolutely hooked on the 80s
digital dub sound... DCOs just did something so good for the riddims... i've
been working on a bit of stuff and this saturday in new york i'll be doing
my first all dub set at a party in brooklyn [using just gameboy... "GAMEBOY
RIDDIM SOUNDSYSTEM... LET JAH  GUIDE YOU IN THE TRUE CHIP SOUND BOYA!"]

check out the theory page on jahtari.org as well as
http://www.interruptor.ch/dub.shtml ... jahtari is a great netlabel for more
standard digital dub/reggae, but the second url is a GREAT resource for
ideas and tools.

- nate

----- Original Message -----

I am a big fan of Rhythm and SOund/Basic Channel and Deep Chord. Those guys
make use old analog synths (like Prophet V),t ape delays, perhaps resonators
to create warm and fuzzy minimal dub techno.

I don't have a space echo (but I am lookign for one). What are some other
good tricks for developing noisy, random sound sources?
I have thought of building purposely noisy and glitchy tube preamps... or
perhaps a home made tape echo... room is a consideration (e.g. I am avoiding
using reel-to-reels as tape echos).  Any other ideas??

I know that Pole (Stefan Betke) had a broken waldorf filter that he used to
generate static and glitches beautifully.


From syntheticdan at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 06:07:21 2006
From: syntheticdan at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:07:21 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] preamp or other secret weapons for lo-fi ness a la Basic Channel/Deep Chord... broken filter like Pole?
In-Reply-To: <43D58381.7050504@burnit.co.uk>
References: <fc3b811d0601231451p6b37a03br36ef90ecd462729b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43D58381.7050504@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <fc3b811d0601232107h3fe8271flce18615287c7534f@mail.gmail.com>

The key elements of the space echo (the real randomness)"
1. Motor speed (and wobbles in motor) + inertia from changing speeds
2. Background hiss
3. Tape saturation


All three of these factor contribute to the overal truly random background
texture. These types of noise glitches are what I would like to produce.

cheers,
     Danjel


On 1/23/06, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Try a BBD based delay .. they can be pretty fuzzy and lo-fi.  For added
> randomness, maybe stick something analog and glitchy in the feedback path
> ?
>
> For a tape delay effect perhaps you could try using a clean digital
> delay, but adding some filtering, compression and slight distortion on
> the delayed signal.  Make sure the fed-back sound for extra repeats is
> taken from this processed signal (then each delay repeat gets more and
> more processed).
>
> Seb
>
>
> Danjel van Tijn wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am a big fan of Rhythm and SOund/Basic Channel and Deep Chord. Those
> > guys make use old analog synths (like Prophet V),t ape delays, perhaps
> > resonators to create warm and fuzzy minimal dub techno.
> >
> > I don't have a space echo (but I am lookign for one). What are some
> > other good tricks for developing noisy, random sound sources?
> > I have thought of building purposely noisy and glitchy tube preamps...
> > or perhaps a home made tape echo... room is a consideration (e.g. I am
> > avoiding using reel-to-reels as tape echos).  Any other ideas??
> >
> > I know that Pole (Stefan Betke) had a broken waldorf filter that he
> > used to generate static and glitches beautifully.
> >
> > cheers,
> >     Danjel
>
>
>
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From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Tue Jan 24 06:32:58 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:32:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] VCAs from outer space
References: <b50a5d0a0601231954v781ac1e0ofae71e91d92a0946@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43D5BC0A.C543452@prodigy.net>

Off the top...

Make R14, R34 = 150K

R5, R12, R27, R36 = 125K (124K 1%)

R8, R30 = 25K  (24.9K 1%)

That should do it. In general these need to be changed because they
set voltages or currents. The values around the opamps are usualy ok
because they work by ratio, not absolute values.

The resistors arounf the LM13700 are probably OK.

You really might not ~need~ to change anything, but this will make the
circuit work exactly like it would on +/-12V

H^) harry

dustin sedlacek wrote:
> 
> I have been looking at Ray Wilson's dual log/lin VCA,  I use a blacet
> power supply. On the music from outerspace site it states "If you are
> using +/-15 volt supplies you will probably need to mess with some
> values to get this to work for you." what values would need to be
> changed ? can someone offer some help ? Thanks in advance
> -Dustin


From spivkurl at wearerecords.com  Tue Jan 24 07:13:12 2006
From: spivkurl at wearerecords.com (Pat Kammerer)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:13:12 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] preamp or other secret weapons for lo-fi ness a la Basic Channel/Deep Chord... broken filter like Pole?
References: <fc3b811d0601231451p6b37a03br36ef90ecd462729b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c620ad$41c81320$896f7344@roc.mn.charter.com>

I would recommend any module or effect based on vactrols.  The slow
response/recovery of this is distinct, and they can be coaxed into lo-fi
sounds pretty easily.

If you are trying to make a random sound source with a modular synth, then I
would recommend patching white noise into a good sample and hold.  This
gives a "random" CV, which has a different and often unexpected character
depending on the sample and hold clock rate, pulse width, and output
attenuation/scaling.  If you patch the output to a VCO pitch, you can get
some amazing randomness.  Tuning the VCO way up often sounds like it's
reaching radio frequencies.

----- Original Message -----
From: Danjel van Tijn <syntheticdan at gmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: [sdiy] preamp or other secret weapons for lo-fi ness a la Basic
Channel/Deep Chord... broken filter like Pole?


From xamboldt at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 24 07:49:06 2006
From: xamboldt at earthlink.net (xamboldt)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 01:49:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] VCAs from outer space
In-Reply-To: <43D5BC0A.C543452@prodigy.net>
References: <b50a5d0a0601231954v781ac1e0ofae71e91d92a0946@mail.gmail.com> <43D5BC0A.C543452@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <0E5820F7-B3DE-4817-A91C-1DC0D530029B@earthlink.net>

Ray himself wrote this last November:
________________
Hi All

Just getting back to those who wrote as to whether this VCA circuit  
was OK on +/-15V.
Its good to go. Tested it this morning and it worked with no  
modifications.

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/DLLVCA001/DLLVCA001.html

Cheers All

Ray
______________

-Chris


On Jan 24, 2006, at 12:32 AM, harrybissell wrote:

> Off the top...
>
> Make R14, R34 = 150K
>
> R5, R12, R27, R36 = 125K (124K 1%)
>
> R8, R30 = 25K  (24.9K 1%)
>
> That should do it. In general these need to be changed because they
> set voltages or currents. The values around the opamps are usualy ok
> because they work by ratio, not absolute values.
>
> The resistors arounf the LM13700 are probably OK.
>
> You really might not ~need~ to change anything, but this will make the
> circuit work exactly like it would on +/-12V
>
> H^) harry
>
> dustin sedlacek wrote:
>>
>> I have been looking at Ray Wilson's dual log/lin VCA,  I use a blacet
>> power supply. On the music from outerspace site it states "If you are
>> using +/-15 volt supplies you will probably need to mess with some
>> values to get this to work for you." what values would need to be
>> changed ? can someone offer some help ? Thanks in advance
>> -Dustin


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 24 12:31:41 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:31:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] preamp or other secret weapons for lo-fi ness a la Basic
 Channel/Deep Chord... broken filter like Pole?
In-Reply-To: <002701c6209d$2258ff50$6401a8c0@NATHANTHIRMSZ>
References: <fc3b811d0601231451p6b37a03br36ef90ecd462729b@mail.gmail.com> <002701c6209d$2258ff50$6401a8c0@NATHANTHIRMSZ>
Message-ID: <43D6101D.7010002@burnit.co.uk>

NATE! wrote:

>check out the theory page on jahtari.org as well as
>http://www.interruptor.ch/dub.shtml ... jahtari is a great netlabel for more
>standard digital dub/reggae, but the second url is a GREAT resource for
>ideas and tools.
>
>  
>
Which reminds me of my favourite VST delay plugin ...
http://www.interruptor.ch/vst_overview.shtml
"ANALOGIC DELAY"

It just sounds great, and it's free!  If you want a tape delay sound 
with none of the annoyances of a hardware unit, plus the benefits of 
full automation, check it out..

Seb



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 24 12:54:07 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:54:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
Message-ID: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk>

On the subject of delays.. I've been wanting to build a simple digital 
delay (or two) for the purpose of making a wide stereo image .. e.g. 
hard pan the original sound to one side and hard pan a few ms delay of 
the sound to the other side.

The delay needs to be clean and accurate (so BBDs are out!), and the 
delay time doesn't need to be very long.  I guess what I need is 
something like a good quality single chip digital delay.  Anybody know 
of something suitable?

Seb



From amajorel at teaser.fr  Tue Jan 24 13:15:41 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:15:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com>

On 2006-01-24 11:54 +0000, Seb Francis wrote:

> On the subject of delays.. I've been wanting to build a simple digital 
> delay (or two) for the purpose of making a wide stereo image .. e.g. 
> hard pan the original sound to one side and hard pan a few ms delay of 
> the sound to the other side.
> 
> The delay needs to be clean and accurate (so BBDs are out!), and the 
> delay time doesn't need to be very long.  I guess what I need is 
> something like a good quality single chip digital delay.  Anybody know 
> of something suitable?

There's Ryan Williams' VC-echo based on the PT239x :

  http://www.sdiy.org/destrukto/vc-echo.html

Ryan says the PT2396 can go down to 12 ms. But for realistic
stereo placement, you want 0.5 ms or less.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 24 13:45:34 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:45:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com>
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk> <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com>
Message-ID: <43D6216E.6030507@burnit.co.uk>

Andre Majorel wrote:

>On 2006-01-24 11:54 +0000, Seb Francis wrote:
>
>  
>
>>On the subject of delays.. I've been wanting to build a simple digital 
>>delay (or two) for the purpose of making a wide stereo image .. e.g. 
>>hard pan the original sound to one side and hard pan a few ms delay of 
>>the sound to the other side.
>>
>>The delay needs to be clean and accurate (so BBDs are out!), and the 
>>delay time doesn't need to be very long.  I guess what I need is 
>>something like a good quality single chip digital delay.  Anybody know 
>>of something suitable?
>>    
>>
>
>There's Ryan Williams' VC-echo based on the PT239x :
>
>  http://www.sdiy.org/destrukto/vc-echo.html
>
>Ryan says the PT2396 can go down to 12 ms. But for realistic
>stereo placement, you want 0.5 ms or less.
>
>  
>
I don't agree, I tend to use times between about 3 and 35 ms.  Important 
is that the sound quality is good enough so the delayed signal sounds 
virtually identical to the original (although it is also interesting to 
EQ one side differently to the other).  Really I try and avoid very 
short delays (i.e. keep time above 10ms or so) otherwise you will get 
mono-compatibility problems.

Thanks for the pointer though.

Seb



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Jan 24 14:13:53 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:13:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Dub siren.. need chematics
In-Reply-To: <BFFBF06F.9F5A%mikas.paukstis@gmail.com>
References: <BFFBF06F.9F5A%mikas.paukstis@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43D62811.5090203@burnit.co.uk>

http://www.interruptor.ch/dub_diysiren.shtml

mikas paukstis wrote:

>Hi guys..
>
>I want build simple Dub Siren (as used by Dub DJ's and producers)
>Does anybody have a schematics or links for info?
>
>thanks
>
>
>-------------------
>tel: +370 67626261
>icq: 271694316
>mikas.paukstis at Gmail.com
>www.pinkskirts.lt
>-------------------
>
>
>
>
>  
>


From Loopy at loophooligan.co.uk  Tue Jan 24 17:18:34 2006
From: Loopy at loophooligan.co.uk (Loopy)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:18:34 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] great pictures from NAMM here 
Message-ID: <200601241559.k0OFxoJ25652@ns1.bigpinkdns.co.uk>

http://www.fdiskc.com/syn/namm/2006/index.html

 

Loopy

 

 

 

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From switchbladekey at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 18:18:53 2006
From: switchbladekey at gmail.com (S. P. W. )
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:18:53 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] OT: PAiA ?
In-Reply-To: <630C1306.51D5%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <200601241620.k0OGK5p12365@linux7>
	 <630C1306.51D5%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <7dde4aac0601240918n55557d58q690e3b2a703df3aa@mail.gmail.com>

>From the obit on the PIAA site:

A note to the DIY community:
Dec. 2 - John's family and the PAiA staff thank everyone for their
wonderful comments and shared memories of John and PAiA products. We
are reading your posts and emails with smiles, tears and sniffles. A
few folks on the forums have wondered what will happen with PAiA now
that John is gone. Please be reassured that PAiA will continue in the
hands of someone who knows its history and has the inspiration and
talent to take it forward as a legacy to John. We can only ask PAiA's
loyal fans and customers to be patient with us as we get our bearings
and plan for the future.

http://www.paia.com/obituary.html

FYI,

Steve


On 8/27/56, Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I got some very prompt online tech help from Scott at Paia a couple of weeks
> ago....
>
> Dave
>
> ....on 24/1/06 16:20, Scott Gravenhorst at music.maker at gte.net wrote:
>
> > Has anyone recently done any business with PAiA?  I've got a list of things
> > I would like to purchase from them.  2 months ago, I used their website to
> > request a paper catalog - mainly because the website says that there are
> > discounts in the paper version that are not available on the website.  I
> > know of John's passing so I'm just guessing that there's still a bit of
> > chaos there, but I haven't yet received my catalog.
> >
> > Does anyone know what's going on over there?
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > - Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
> > - Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
> > - What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
> > - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> > - The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
> > - Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.
> >
> > -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> > -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> > -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> > -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> > -- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.
> >
>
>


--
Darkness within darkness, The gateway to all understanding.
     - Lao Tzu


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Tue Jan 24 19:12:59 2006
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:12:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] I think there's already a Wiki started
In-Reply-To: <43CFEA6E.9080005@quicknet.nl>
References: <43CFEA6E.9080005@quicknet.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0601241312400.9468@bigzilla.ece.gatech.edu>


http://www.synthesizers.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.ModuleIdeas

- Aaron


From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Jan 24 19:46:00 2006
From: jmahoney at gate.net (john mahoney)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:46:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OT: PAiA ?
References: <200601241620.k0OGK5p12365@linux7>
Message-ID: <024401c62116$6c32e630$6400a8c0@BABYUTEST>

> Does anyone know what's going on over there [at PAiA]?

The What's New page (http://www.paia.com/weblog.htm) shows that a catalog
update was done *after* Papa J passed away, so there are signs of activity.

The catalog PDF shows that some 9700 products will be back in stock
tomorrow, so it will be interesting to check the What's New page in a day or
two.
--
john


From waterbuffalo18 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 20:54:56 2006
From: waterbuffalo18 at gmail.com (Ryan Williams)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:54:56 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com>
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk>
	 <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com>
Message-ID: <6efc8fd20601241154t7d414c04j2e4c2cfc3f3eccac@mail.gmail.com>

**hi,

I have just moved and don't have my workbench setup yet, but just before I
left I did a few quick tests with the pt2396. It was interesting enough so
that I will continue working with it. You can overclock this thing quite a
bit. It seemed to be working with clock frequencies at something like 15MHz
and maybe more ( I didn't measure ). the 12ms is what the datasheet
specifies for a 2MHz clock. So, I think it will allow a reasonable range for
modulation on any of the delay settings that are chosen with the 4-bit
binary input. running it with the fast clock should also allow a larger
bandwidth.

the test was real quick. I was using the VCO from a pt2399. I did not check
sound quality or anything like that. I would think that the capacitors in
the modulator/demodulator might need some adjusting if clocking this fast.

-ryan

On 1/24/06, Andre Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr> wrote:

> There's Ryan Williams' VC-echo based on the PT239x :
>
>   http://www.sdiy.org/destrukto/vc-echo.html
>
> Ryan says the PT2396 can go down to 12 ms. But for realistic
> stereo placement, you want 0.5 ms or less.
>
> --
> Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
> http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/
>
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From colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com  Tue Jan 24 23:50:36 2006
From: colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com (Colin Raffel)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:50:36 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] .01uf Silver Mica
In-Reply-To: <398e46970601241236x702df74dv5d6f490e4b732792@mail.gmail.com>
References: <398e46970601241236x702df74dv5d6f490e4b732792@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>

I built one of Ray's VCOs (http://musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/ 
VCO200503REV01/VCO200503REV01.html) but it's been revised (http:// 
musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/VCO200503REV01/ 
tomandianssuggestions.html) but I still want to use a silvered mica  
cap for C6... but Mouser sells .01uf silver mica's for $9 apiece!   
Sheesh!  Is there any other substitute that will be as stable as the  
mica but perhaps less pricey?

-Colin


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Jan 25 00:10:39 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:10:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] .01uf Silver Mica
In-Reply-To: <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
References: <398e46970601241236x702df74dv5d6f490e4b732792@mail.gmail.com> <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
Message-ID: <20060124231039.GX47723@moo.sysabend.org>

On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 05:50:36PM -0500, Colin Raffel wrote:
> tomandianssuggestions.html) but I still want to use a silvered mica  
> cap for C6... but Mouser sells .01uf silver mica's for $9 apiece!   
> Sheesh!  Is there any other substitute that will be as stable as the  
> mica but perhaps less pricey?

I used 9100pf silvered mica caps which I get surplus for a buck or two.
Might also want to look at larger value Polystyrene caps, they're huge but
so is a 9100pf mica...

If there is interest I could swing down and pick up some more of the Mica
caps if they have some left.  I didnt see much difference between a .01uf
mylar cheap crappy cap and the 9100mica as far as VCO range.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From philmacnutt at mac.com  Wed Jan 25 00:57:56 2006
From: philmacnutt at mac.com (phil macnutt)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:57:56 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@[171.64.60.224]>
Message-ID: <200601242358.k0ONwRG9015586@dropmix>

Dino,

Personally, I'd avoid using any type connector that could be confused with
some other function.  DIN, VGA, and D-Sub all fall into this category.
My favorite for DC power is AMP CPC "Circular Plastic Connector".
Inexpensive and easy to fool with.  I get mine from Mouser

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/624/914.pdf

should get you started if you are interested in this option.  Read up on the
different series they have, some are large, some are smaller.

Phil


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dino Leone
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:44 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution

Hi all,

I'm trying to find a suitable connector for power distribution 
between diy modules (19" boxes). I'm thinking of having a single, 
good, +/-15V power supply (powerone) and then route power to the 
different modules (instead of each project having its own crummy 
wallwart).
Problem is, I can't quite figure out what would be the best 
solution... for practical purposes (read: drilling), a circular 
connector would be good, DIN connector, 5- or 6-pin?  Using plain 
MIDI connectors would be easy (could use MIDI cables for routing 
power), but it seems that scenario is very dangerous....

Any suggestions for a good solution? Maybe abuse some D-sub 9pin or 
VGA connectors?

Best,

Dino





From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Jan 25 01:27:25 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:27:25 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@[171.64.60.224]>
References: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@[171.64.60.224]>
Message-ID: <20060125002725.GY47723@moo.sysabend.org>

On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 03:44:10PM -0800, Dino Leone wrote:
> Problem is, I can't quite figure out what would be the best 
> solution... for practical purposes (read: drilling), a circular 
> connector would be good, DIN connector, 5- or 6-pin?  Using plain 
> MIDI connectors would be easy (could use MIDI cables for routing 
> power), but it seems that scenario is very dangerous....
> 
> Any suggestions for a good solution? Maybe abuse some D-sub 9pin or 
> VGA connectors?

I use a 4pin CB microphone connector.

Why this one?  Its cheap ( $3ea at radio shack, $1 or so online ).  Readily
available ( multiple online sources and every radioshack in the country ).
Its metal and well made ( I had trouble with the AMP cheap circular
connectors getting killed, plus they werent really cheap ).  I dont use it 
anywhere else ( I havent had a CB in 15 years ).

I agonized over connectors for a while before choosing these.

For pictures ( and really cheap pricing ) check this URL :
http://www.ceitron.com/comm/micplug.html

Look at the 6J1-100 and 6JP-100.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 25 02:13:12 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:13:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] .01uf Silver Mica
In-Reply-To: <87441170601241658u5cdab752n39a3eece91f4300f@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <398e46970601241236x702df74dv5d6f490e4b732792@mail.gmail.com>
 <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
 <87441170601241658u5cdab752n39a3eece91f4300f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060124181200.0341a340@mail.earthlink.net>

At 05:58 PM 1/24/06, Tim Parkhurst wrote:


>Holy Cats! $9 each? Is there REALLLY a noticeable difference between a
>silver mica and a good polystyrene (available for less than $1)?

Yes there is.  Polystyrene is better.  :-)


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Jan 25 04:04:15 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:04:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] .01uf Silver Mica
References: <398e46970601241236x702df74dv5d6f490e4b732792@mail.gmail.com> <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
Message-ID: <43D6EAAF.72495AEF@prodigy.net>

uhhh yeah

Polystyrene. They are available from Mouser. .01uF is the highest
value they carry, so you're in luck.

.01uF is a large value for a silver mica.  I would not use silver
mica in this case unless you needed a really wide operating temperature
range. Polystyrene is about 85C max.  (be careful soldering it !)

H^) harry

Colin Raffel wrote:
> 
> I built one of Ray's VCOs (http://musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/
> VCO200503REV01/VCO200503REV01.html) but it's been revised (http://
> musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/VCO200503REV01/
> tomandianssuggestions.html) but I still want to use a silvered mica
> cap for C6... but Mouser sells .01uf silver mica's for $9 apiece!
> Sheesh!  Is there any other substitute that will be as stable as the
> mica but perhaps less pricey?
> 
> -Colin


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Jan 25 04:07:09 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:07:09 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] .01uf Silver Mica
References: <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
	 <398e46970601241236x702df74dv5d6f490e4b732792@mail.gmail.com>
	 <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20060124173945.0260f8e0@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <43D6EB5D.A0341494@prodigy.net>

Tempco is about the same, dielectric absorption of silver
mica is a little worse (not much)... temperature range of
silver mica is WAY better... but unless you gig the Mojave
Desert at noon, in July... under the hood of your car... :^P

H^) harry

James Patchell wrote:
> 
> I am not sure what the tempco of the Micas are, but Polystyrene has a
> tempco of about -100ppM.
> 
> At 04:58 PM 1/24/2006 -0800, Tim Parkhurst wrote:
> >On 1/24/06, Colin Raffel <colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com> wrote:
> > > I built one of Ray's VCOs (http://musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/
> > > VCO200503REV01/VCO200503REV01.html) but it's been revised (http://
> > > musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/VCO200503REV01/
> > > tomandianssuggestions.html) but I still want to use a silvered mica
> > > cap for C6... but Mouser sells .01uf silver mica's for $9 apiece!
> > > Sheesh!  Is there any other substitute that will be as stable as the
> > > mica but perhaps less pricey?
> > >
> > > -Colin
> > >
> >
> >Holy Cats! $9 each? Is there REALLLY a noticeable difference between a
> >silver mica and a good polystyrene (available for less than $1)?
> >
> >Tim (meOW!) Servo
> >--
> >"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
> 
>          -Jim
> ***************************************************************
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell
> 
> ***************************************************************


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 25 04:50:00 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:50:00 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] .01uf Silver Mica
In-Reply-To: <43D6EB5D.A0341494@prodigy.net>
References: <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
 <398e46970601241236x702df74dv5d6f490e4b732792@mail.gmail.com>
 <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
 <5.2.1.1.2.20060124173945.0260f8e0@pop.west.cox.net>
 <43D6EB5D.A0341494@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060124203910.03421eb0@mail.earthlink.net>

As I understand it, silver mica has a large dielectric memory (soakage) 
effect.  [See Horowitz and Hill, but note that they seem somewhat confused 
about dielectric absorption and dielectric memory, which they consider the 
same thing.  Dielectric absorption comes from the imaginary part of the 
dielectric constant and increases with frequency.  Dielectric memory is a 
permanent (DC) change in zero-field polarization.]


At 08:07 PM 1/24/06, harrybissell wrote:
>Tempco is about the same, dielectric absorption of silver
>mica is a little worse (not much)... temperature range of
>silver mica is WAY better... but unless you gig the Mojave
>Desert at noon, in July... under the hood of your car... :^P
>
>H^) harry
>
>James Patchell wrote:
> >
> > I am not sure what the tempco of the Micas are, but Polystyrene has a
> > tempco of about -100ppM.
> >


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Wed Jan 25 05:01:46 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:01:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] .01uf Silver Mica
References: <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
	 <398e46970601241236x702df74dv5d6f490e4b732792@mail.gmail.com>
	 <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
	 <5.2.1.1.2.20060124173945.0260f8e0@pop.west.cox.net>
	 <43D6EB5D.A0341494@prodigy.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20060124203910.03421eb0@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <43D6F82A.EF9DD6EF@prodigy.net>

OK I could see that difference.

I'm equally confused.  Certainly what I'm talking about is
'soakage'

I think that Bob Pease wrote about it in one of his columns.
It would be like having a 100 uf cap... with a 1M resistor to
a 10uF...etc... 

Short out the 100uF and the voltage goes to zero... but unless
you wait a very long time... the 10uF will not discharge. If you remove
the
short... the 10uF cap will bleed back into the 100uF and recharge it.

I think maybe dielectric absorption as your describing is more like
dielectric losses.  The energy is lost as heat, and does not ever
come back.

Its pretty complex. The memory (soakage) can cause massive errors in
S/H circuits.  The losses are more an issue at high frequencies
(as you say)... and I'd think higher frequencies than we usually play
at

H^) harry

Ian Fritz wrote:
> 
> As I understand it, silver mica has a large dielectric memory (soakage)
> effect.  [See Horowitz and Hill, but note that they seem somewhat confused
> about dielectric absorption and dielectric memory, which they consider the
> same thing.  Dielectric absorption comes from the imaginary part of the
> dielectric constant and increases with frequency.  Dielectric memory is a
> permanent (DC) change in zero-field polarization.]
> 
> At 08:07 PM 1/24/06, harrybissell wrote:
> >Tempco is about the same, dielectric absorption of silver
> >mica is a little worse (not much)... temperature range of
> >silver mica is WAY better... but unless you gig the Mojave
> >Desert at noon, in July... under the hood of your car... :^P
> >
> >H^) harry
> >
> >James Patchell wrote:
> > >
> > > I am not sure what the tempco of the Micas are, but Polystyrene has a
> > > tempco of about -100ppM.
> > >


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 25 05:18:27 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:18:27 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] .01uf Silver Mica
In-Reply-To: <43D6F82A.EF9DD6EF@prodigy.net>
References: <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
 <398e46970601241236x702df74dv5d6f490e4b732792@mail.gmail.com>
 <177B9844-C0F7-4517-BED5-F8F642875750@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
 <5.2.1.1.2.20060124173945.0260f8e0@pop.west.cox.net>
 <43D6EB5D.A0341494@prodigy.net>
 <6.2.1.2.2.20060124203910.03421eb0@mail.earthlink.net>
 <43D6F82A.EF9DD6EF@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060124210909.0341e7f0@mail.earthlink.net>

At 09:01 PM 1/24/06, harrybissell wrote:
>OK I could see that difference.
>
>I'm equally confused.  Certainly what I'm talking about is
>'soakage'
>
>I think that Bob Pease wrote about it in one of his columns.
>It would be like having a 100 uf cap... with a 1M resistor to
>a 10uF...etc...
>
>Short out the 100uF and the voltage goes to zero... but unless
>you wait a very long time... the 10uF will not discharge. If you remove
>the
>short... the 10uF cap will bleed back into the 100uF and recharge it.

Right, this is "soakage" or "memory", as I understand the 
terminology.  Some of the electric dipoles in the material are (semi) 
permanently realigned along the E-field direction.


>I think maybe dielectric absorption as your describing is more like
>dielectric losses.  The energy is lost as heat, and does not ever
>come back.

Yes, exactly.  "Dielectric absorption" and "dielectric loss"  are 
equivalent terms for the same thing as far as I know.


>Its pretty complex. The memory (soakage) can cause massive errors in
>S/H circuits.  The losses are more an issue at high frequencies
>(as you say)... and I'd think higher frequencies than we usually play
>at

IIRC the audiophiles have observed these effects at audio frequency as a 
source of distortion.

   Ian


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Wed Jan 25 08:28:30 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:28:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@[171.64.60.224]>
References: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@[171.64.60.224]>
Message-ID: <20060125072830.GC7912@atc5.vermine.org>

On 2006-01-24 15:44 -0800, Dino Leone wrote:

> I'm trying to find a suitable connector for power distribution 
> between diy modules (19" boxes). I'm thinking of having a single, 
> good, +/-15V power supply (powerone) and then route power to the 
> different modules (instead of each project having its own crummy 
> wallwart).

Have you considered having a single large transformer and
distribute AC or unregulated DC to multiple DIY 317/337 regulators ?
The connectors wouldn't have to be low-resistance, the power rails
would be cleaner and it would be more scalable and possibly
cheaper.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From carsten at analog-monster.de  Wed Jan 25 09:56:22 2006
From: carsten at analog-monster.de (carsten at analog-monster.de)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:56:22 +0100
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
Message-ID: <20206126.51451138179382917.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver>

Hi Seb,

I used the Alesis Single Chip Reverb DSP. Please see 

http://www.analog-monster.de/scr_en.html

Regards

Carsten

>
>On the subject of delays.. I've been wanting to build a simple digital 
>delay (or two) for the purpose of making a wide stereo image .. e.g. 
>hard pan the original sound to one side and hard pan a few ms delay of 
>the sound to the other side.
>
>The delay needs to be clean and accurate (so BBDs are out!), and the 
>delay time doesn't need to be very long.  I guess what I need is 
>something like a good quality single chip digital delay.  Anybody know 
>of something suitable?
>
>Seb
>
>


From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 12:31:03 2006
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:31:03 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
In-Reply-To: <43D755CB.7080607@burnit.co.uk>
References: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@171.64.60.224>
	 <20060125002725.GY47723@moo.sysabend.org>
	 <006901c6214c$71202140$0a01a8c0@frostwave>
	 <43D755CB.7080607@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80601250331o57991045n12d68461fb959c91@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/25/06, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> Digital Ground, or maybe 5V ?
>

More questions coming..
I?m still on planning stage for my modular. The form factor of 6U
euroracks is dictated by the budget. All recycled from the old Telco
equipment.

And despite of all warnings I?m going to build my own PSU (probably
torroid, 317/337 + pass transistor booster - "You?re calling THAT a
PSU? If you can?t weld with it, it ain?t PSU in my books" :P) and
distribute it to the all other racks.

Here we go: What do you people think, is it better to use local
regulation for 5VDC digital stuff in the modules or going to concept
of having +5VDC distributed too? (with separated digital or "dirty"
ground, only connected in the PSU)

Samppa


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Jan 25 13:08:55 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:08:55 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
References: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@171.64.60.224> <20060125002725.GY47723@moo.sysabend.org> <006901c6214c$71202140$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <43D755CB.7080607@burnit.co.uk> <fa1b0bd80601250331o57991045n12d68461fb959c91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008f01c621a8$1dc1cba0$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

I don't personally think it matters where the 
+5 is regulated, if it is only used for digital.
The only (slight) advantage to having local
regulation, is that (provided you have suitable
caps close to the input pins of each regulator)
there might be less noise radiated from the wiring
going to the rectifier.
Anothre advantage with local regulators, is that a 
local problem doesn't affect the whole modular.
Certainly, +5 regs are very cheap.......
paul perry Melbourne Australia


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Samppa Tolvanen" 
> Here we go: What do you people think, is it better to use local
> regulation for 5VDC digital stuff in the modules or going to concept
> of having +5VDC distributed too? (with separated digital or "dirty"
> ground, only connected in the PSU)


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Jan 25 13:25:09 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:25:09 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80601250331o57991045n12d68461fb959c91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@171.64.60.224>	 <20060125002725.GY47723@moo.sysabend.org>	 <006901c6214c$71202140$0a01a8c0@frostwave>	 <43D755CB.7080607@burnit.co.uk> <fa1b0bd80601250331o57991045n12d68461fb959c91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43D76E25.8050609@burnit.co.uk>

Samppa Tolvanen wrote:

>On 1/25/06, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>  
>
>>Digital Ground, or maybe 5V ?
>>
>>    
>>
>
>More questions coming..
>I?m still on planning stage for my modular. The form factor of 6U
>euroracks is dictated by the budget. All recycled from the old Telco
>equipment.
>
>And despite of all warnings I?m going to build my own PSU (probably
>torroid, 317/337 + pass transistor booster - "You?re calling THAT a
>PSU? If you can?t weld with it, it ain?t PSU in my books" :P) and
>distribute it to the all other racks.
>
>Here we go: What do you people think, is it better to use local
>regulation for 5VDC digital stuff in the modules or going to concept
>of having +5VDC distributed too? (with separated digital or "dirty"
>ground, only connected in the PSU)
>
>  
>

Personally I'm very much in favour of a digital ground if you're running 
things like microcontrollers.  This is kept separate all the way back to 
the PSU and really helps isolate the noise from the audio and CV paths.  
You may find there are some things in a circuit that are not clearly 
digital or analog, but generally the things that matter will be obvious.

As for 5V: unless you have modules that are using a lot of current at 
this voltage then I would opt to have a 78L05 + a couple caps on the 
boards where you need this voltage.  In fact these components will take 
up no more board space than if you were to include an inductor and 
capacitor where external 5V power comes into the module.  The advantage 
with having it separately regulated is you can keep really dirty power 
(e.g. powering a microcontroller) local and if you have another module 
that uses 5V for something audio or CV based then it will not pick up 
the crap.

For all modules I would include some small inductors on the power rails 
(not the ground) to help isolate noise, and have electrolytic capactors 
to ground after the inductors to handle any current spikes that would be 
difficult to pull through the inductors.

Seb



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Jan 25 13:49:30 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:49:30 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <4929445.1138131653693.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <4929445.1138131653693.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <43D773DA.9010907@burnit.co.uk>

(CCing back onto the list in case the info is of interest)


Hi GB,

Thanks for these links.  The 2nd one looks interesting - I hadn't 
thought of making my own 1-bit oversampled ADC/DAC and just stringing 
some FIFO memory in between.  I think your calculations for the memory 
storage are not quite right though: should simply be the sampling rate * 
the time to give the number of bits needed.  But for this kind of 
conversion it probably needs a sampling rate of somewhere near 1MHz is 
needed to get decent quality .. so 10ms delay = ~10kbit (pretty much the 
same result as calculating it based on 'normal' sampling rate and 16bit 
resolution).

The first link mentions the Mitsubishi M65830 IC and that it has been 
discontinued.  I think the replacement would be the M65850 which is now 
sold by Renesas who took over some of Mitsubishi's product line in 
2003.  I've been finding these chips quite difficult to get hold of, but 
hopefully (fingers crossed) a distributor is going to send me some 
samples in a couple of weeks.

Seb



MTG wrote:

>That's an interesting question.  Here are a couple of links
>of possible interest ;-)
>
>http://sound.westhost.com/project26.htm
>
>http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=8056
>
>For a digital storage method, ou need to define your 
>memory requirements.  EX: 
>44.1 kilosamples/sec * .010s * 16 bits = 7kbits
>
>so it wouldn't be too hard to do (memory-wise).
>That being said a one-chip DSP might do it or
>even a fast microcontroller.
>
>GB
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>  
>
>>From: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
>>Sent: Jan 24, 2006 3:54 AM
>>To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
>>
>>On the subject of delays.. I've been wanting to build a simple digital 
>>delay (or two) for the purpose of making a wide stereo image .. e.g. 
>>hard pan the original sound to one side and hard pan a few ms delay of 
>>the sound to the other side.
>>
>>The delay needs to be clean and accurate (so BBDs are out!), and the 
>>delay time doesn't need to be very long.  I guess what I need is 
>>something like a good quality single chip digital delay.  Anybody know 
>>of something suitable?
>>
>>Seb
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Jan 25 14:28:35 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:28:35 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <43D773DA.9010907@burnit.co.uk>
References: <4929445.1138131653693.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <43D773DA.9010907@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43D77D03.5010004@burnit.co.uk>

And talking of a delay using a simple home-rolled 1-bit oversampling 
ADC/DAC and some FIFO memory .. you can get PICs with 3968 bytes ~= 
32kbit of memory.  These run up to 40MHz which gives an instruction 
cycle rate of 10MHz.  It ought to be easily possible to perform the FIFO 
operation in 10 instructions per bit, with plenty of spare instructions 
left over to read the PIC-ADC input from a control pot to set the delay 
length.  So a 1MHz sampling rate would give a high quality delay of up 
to 30ms or so.

This way of setting the delay length also has the big advantage that the 
audio quality stays constant as the delay length is changed (as opposed 
to changing the delay time by changing the clock frequency).  And of 
course when keeping the clock frequency constant one doesn't have to 
worry about switching capacitor values in the ADC/DAC integrators.

Of course the 'low-fi' effect obtained by slowing the clock frequency 
wouldn't be obtained, but hey I have a BBD based echo box already for 
this kind of effect.  And actually it would be easily possible to vary 
the clock frequency of the PIC down to obtain much longer delays (and 
low-fi effects).

.. anyway, just thinking out loud :)

Seb



Seb Francis wrote:

> (CCing back onto the list in case the info is of interest)
>
>
> Hi GB,
>
> Thanks for these links.  The 2nd one looks interesting - I hadn't 
> thought of making my own 1-bit oversampled ADC/DAC and just stringing 
> some FIFO memory in between.  I think your calculations for the memory 
> storage are not quite right though: should simply be the sampling rate 
> * the time to give the number of bits needed.  But for this kind of 
> conversion it probably needs a sampling rate of somewhere near 1MHz is 
> needed to get decent quality .. so 10ms delay = ~10kbit (pretty much 
> the same result as calculating it based on 'normal' sampling rate and 
> 16bit resolution).
>
> The first link mentions the Mitsubishi M65830 IC and that it has been 
> discontinued.  I think the replacement would be the M65850 which is 
> now sold by Renesas who took over some of Mitsubishi's product line in 
> 2003.  I've been finding these chips quite difficult to get hold of, 
> but hopefully (fingers crossed) a distributor is going to send me some 
> samples in a couple of weeks.
>
> Seb
>
>
>
> MTG wrote:
>
>> That's an interesting question.  Here are a couple of links
>> of possible interest ;-)
>>
>> http://sound.westhost.com/project26.htm
>>
>> http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=8056
>>
>> For a digital storage method, ou need to define your memory 
>> requirements.  EX: 44.1 kilosamples/sec * .010s * 16 bits = 7kbits
>>
>> so it wouldn't be too hard to do (memory-wise).
>> That being said a one-chip DSP might do it or
>> even a fast microcontroller.
>>
>> GB
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>  
>>
>>> From: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
>>> Sent: Jan 24, 2006 3:54 AM
>>> To: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>> Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
>>>
>>> On the subject of delays.. I've been wanting to build a simple 
>>> digital delay (or two) for the purpose of making a wide stereo image 
>>> .. e.g. hard pan the original sound to one side and hard pan a few 
>>> ms delay of the sound to the other side.
>>>
>>> The delay needs to be clean and accurate (so BBDs are out!), and the 
>>> delay time doesn't need to be very long.  I guess what I need is 
>>> something like a good quality single chip digital delay.  Anybody 
>>> know of something suitable?
>>>
>>> Seb
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>
>
>


From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Wed Jan 25 14:33:41 2006
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:33:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <43D773DA.9010907@burnit.co.uk>
References: <4929445.1138131653693.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <43D773DA.9010907@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43D77E35.80909@uni-bonn.de>

Hi Seb and all,

you also might want to have a look at the delay line at my website.
I've been using 64 and 256kBit DRAMs as the FIFO.

Then there is also a schematic that is on Batz' Site which used a D-Type 
FF and an RC-integrator in pretty much the same way as proposed in the 
second link. http://all-electric.com/schematic/ddl.htm
The only difference is that the output is latched by the FF, so there 
are no problems with sampling on a transitioning signal.

Seb Francis wrote:

> Thanks for these links.  The 2nd one looks interesting - I hadn't 
> thought of making my own 1-bit oversampled ADC/DAC and just stringing 
> some FIFO memory in between.  I think your calculations for the memory 
> storage are not quite right though: should simply be the sampling rate * 
> the time to give the number of bits needed.  But for this kind of 
> conversion it probably needs a sampling rate of somewhere near 1MHz is 
> needed to get decent quality .. so 10ms delay = ~10kbit (pretty much the 
> same result as calculating it based on 'normal' sampling rate and 16bit 
> resolution).

Mind that with such a simple converter you need to supersample the 
signal, so a much higher rate than 16*44.1k would be desireable. Else 
you will have problems with fast transients in your signal. (SAW, 
PULSE...) The Adaptive Delta Modulators (from a deltalabs patent) which 
I used reduce this requirement. And there I ended up at rates of about 
500kHz-1MHz for good reproduction.


Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159



From switchbladekey at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 15:55:51 2006
From: switchbladekey at gmail.com (S. P. W. )
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:55:51 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] circuitbending expensive gear (or ESD-safe body contacts)
In-Reply-To: <908a4c120601242059p6b74da0ch5b5f9cf68e6ac5c4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <908a4c120601242059p6b74da0ch5b5f9cf68e6ac5c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7dde4aac0601250655k5a7ca190j709ebfc28b87de85@mail.gmail.com>

This would work...

http://www.paia.com/theremax.htm

Basically a theremin with CV outs.

also, you could use one of these:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Mar03/articles/alesisairsynth.asp

The band I am auditioning for this friday has one, it is pretty cool.
It does no midi or CV though,  but is fun for the whole family.

While we are talking about CV I got a yamaha expression pedal with TRS
1/4 plug, plugged it into my Matrix 6, and get only a change from 0 to
2 according to midi monitor with the full range of motion. Did i get
the wrong kind of pedal, or am I missing something. Values possible
are from 1 to 64 or so, so that seems a bit limited to say the least.
I have heard of a CV pedal, is that what I need?

take care,

Steve



On 1/24/06, Amos <controlvoltage at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>  I am interested in the idea of adding conductive "body contacts" to a synth
> or two, perhaps inserted into a modulation path as an additional shaper.  I
> know from experience that electrostatic discharge into circuits can be a bad
> thing (like if there is a digital +5V line nearby)...
>  what might be a good way to have a conductive contact bending my modulation
> CVs while being sure that I can build up a good static charge and zap myself
> into it without harm?
>
>  Just a random midnight brainflash... I may be overlooking the obvious or
> asking the impossible (more likely the former), and any feedback would be
> great.  Thanks!
>


--
Darkness within darkness, The gateway to all understanding.
     - Lao Tzu


From rob at emulatorarchive.com  Wed Jan 25 22:36:17 2006
From: rob at emulatorarchive.com (Rob Keeble)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:36:17 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80601250331o57991045n12d68461fb959c91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNMEFGLMAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>

Hi
I agree with Seb, put +5V supply (78X05's) for CMOS/TTL/etc on the PCB
modules. It provides better isolation and reduces the number of power lines.
For VCO's I now put local stable voltages of +5 and +/-10V on the PCB using
ultra precision voltage references (0.6ppm devices). Its very important to
have a high quality power supply for VCO's....drift in the supply translates
directly into drift in frequency. The main power supply(s) just provides a
+/-15V bus to all modules (usually at 1mV drift from LM723 based PSU).

I also separate out power on the PCB for LED's and LED driver Op Amps and
decouple them separately from audio as per Sebs email. Decoupling electro
caps are 47 or 100uF for these jobs.

I have also switched to using high quality Panansonic FC range electro
capacitors (22uF and 100uF)and axial multilayer ceramics (100nF) for
decoupling the main power onto the PCB, with inductors as per Sebs email.

I use the "standard" 4-pin 0.156" MTA (MOTM style) power connectors for PCB
connection, in case any customers buy the PCB/module. These connect to
distribution PCB's which are powered by regulator PCB's mounted in the
cabinets. These are fed from 16-20VAC power via 3-pin Bulgin connectors from
a remote metal box with power transformers and final 240VAC input.

My CV and gates signals go in and out via 8pin circular connectors (not DIN
to avoid confusion with MIDI !).

Regards
Rob


Here we go: What do you people think, is it better to use local
regulation for 5VDC digital stuff in the modules or going to concept
of having +5VDC distributed too? (with separated digital or "dirty"
ground, only connected in the PSU)

Samppa







From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Jan 25 23:16:25 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:16:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43D7F8B9.2050509@burnit.co.uk>

I think you would just take any static filter circuit and replace the 
resistor(s) that set frequency with vactrols.  Then control the vactrol 
with a CV.  Or if it's a VCF, you want to replace the OTA with the vactrol.

But sorry, can't give you any links.

Seb


dustin sedlacek wrote:

> Anyone know where to find some schems for a vactrol filter? I have 
> found very little information on this on the net.
>
> -- 
> Dustin 



From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Wed Jan 25 23:27:42 2006
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:27:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] circuitbending expensive gear (or ESD-safe body contacts)
References: <908a4c120601242059p6b74da0ch5b5f9cf68e6ac5c4@mail.gmail.com> <87441170601251234s662b68dcj6867743242dc49cc@mail.gmail.com> <009b01c621f2$f70fd510$6401a8c0@NATHANTHIRMSZ>
Message-ID: <00e801c621fe$8f485590$947ba8c0@HypoLuxa>


> ----- Original Message -----
>> Just one cautionary note: It sounds like you're thinking of adding
>> body contacts to AC line-powered equipment. This sounds like a
>> REAALLLLLY bad idea.
>>
>> Comments? criticisms? tar? feathers?

I wouldn't imagine that this would be any more dangerous than holding a 
patch cable in your hand that's conencted to the synth...

Dave 


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Wed Jan 25 23:38:21 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:38:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060125223821.GA29497@atc5.vermine.org>

On 2006-01-25 13:58 -0800, dustin sedlacek wrote:

> Anyone know where to find some schems for a vactrol filter? I
> have found very little information on this on the net.

http://buzzclick-music.com/homebrew.html

Look for "low pass gate" and "State Variable Vactrol Filter".

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From jason at redfish.net  Wed Jan 25 23:50:46 2006
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:50:46 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
In-Reply-To: <43D7F8B9.2050509@burnit.co.uk>
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
 <43D7F8B9.2050509@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a06200708bffdb114bc35@[10.0.1.201]>

ISTR the MOTM-410 triple resonant filter having vactrols. but you'd 
have to buy one for a schematic or ask paul s very nicely for tips on 
vactrol usage.


>I think you would just take any static filter circuit and replace 
>the resistor(s) that set frequency with vactrols.  Then control the 
>vactrol with a CV.  Or if it's a VCF, you want to replace the OTA 
>with the vactrol.
>
>But sorry, can't give you any links.
>
>Seb
>
>
>dustin sedlacek wrote:
>
>>Anyone know where to find some schems for a vactrol filter? I have 
>>found very little information on this on the net.
>>
>>--
>>Dustin


From colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com  Wed Jan 25 23:57:22 2006
From: colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com (Colin Raffel)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:57:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E23FF459-FCAD-4019-BA56-EBA7A3F088C5@experimentalistsanonymous.com>

The Neutron filter from Geofex has a variety of options, though it is  
more stompbox level.

http://www.geofex.com/PCB_layouts/Layouts/neutronpub.pdf

-Colin

On Jan 25, 2006, at 4:58 PM, dustin sedlacek wrote:

> Anyone know where to find some schems for a vactrol filter? I have  
> found very little information on this on the net.
>
> -- 
> Dustin


From dino.leone at stanford.edu  Thu Jan 26 00:24:46 2006
From: dino.leone at stanford.edu (Dino Leone)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:24:46 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
In-Reply-To: <20060125223821.GA29497@atc5.vermine.org>
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
 <20060125223821.GA29497@atc5.vermine.org>
Message-ID: <p06200701bffdb8aded85@[171.64.60.224]>

you've got to be kidding.... this is where your link points to:
http://buzzclick-music.com/vacfiltschem.jpg

not exactly the schematics... right? (Or is it 
just me... am I off my medication again?? :-)

Best,

Dino




>Andre Majorel wrote:
>
>http://buzzclick-music.com/homebrew.html
>
>Look for "low pass gate" and "State Variable Vactrol Filter".
>
>--
>Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
>http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/




From controlvoltage at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 00:43:26 2006
From: controlvoltage at gmail.com (Amos)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:43:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] circuitbending expensive gear (or ESD-safe body contacts)
In-Reply-To: <87441170601251518j14b9c9dblab983efe167808a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <908a4c120601242059p6b74da0ch5b5f9cf68e6ac5c4@mail.gmail.com>
	 <87441170601251234s662b68dcj6867743242dc49cc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <009b01c621f2$f70fd510$6401a8c0@NATHANTHIRMSZ>
	 <00e801c621fe$8f485590$947ba8c0@HypoLuxa>
	 <87441170601251518j14b9c9dblab983efe167808a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <908a4c120601251543w1eab325dp2e9eff2347245f15@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tim and all,

although this idea is inspired by circuit-bending, I was not planning on
following the usual Casio "poke and hope" method of circuit exploration.
Rather I am talking about taking a known modulation bus which operates
within a 0V to +5V range, and inserting a body contact so that I can load
down/mess with the shape of the signal it carries.  Perhaps connecting the
body contact to the mod bus via a 100K resistor would suffice?


On 1/26/06, Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/25/06, Dave Magnuson <resfreq at hoohahrecords.com> wrote:
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> Just one cautionary note: It sounds like you're thinking of adding
> > >> body contacts to AC line-powered equipment. This sounds like a
> > >> REAALLLLLY bad idea.
> > >>
> > >> Comments? criticisms? tar? feathers?
> >
> > I wouldn't imagine that this would be any more dangerous than holding a
> > patch cable in your hand that's conencted to the synth...
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
> Ah, maybe I'm wrong then. I was thinking that he might be tapping to
> various points in the circuitry, and not necessarily just "normal"
> I/O. If you're poking around "under the hood" in a synth, the
> potential for tapping into a power rail (or something darn close) does
> exist. True, we're only talking 12 to 15V in most cases, but I still
> wouldn't want to put my fingers across +V and ground on a DC supply
> capable of delivering 1Amp or so. As far as grabbing onto a patch
> cord, on your average synth anything that you can connect a patch
> cable to SHOULD be protected by resistors or other
> overvoltage/overcurrent devices (e.g., 100K on inputs, 1K on outputs),
> so I wouldn't think there's too much danger there.
>
> Am I still not getting it?
>
> Tim (zap!) Servo
> --
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
>
>
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From guitaricon at comcast.net  Thu Jan 26 00:53:12 2006
From: guitaricon at comcast.net (jeff brown)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:53:12 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003901c6220a$8100f9e0$0202a8c0@jeff>

Mark Verbos has the Buchla Low Pass Gate and Bandbass filter schematics
here: http://www.simple-answer.com/DIY.html

Both use Vactrols.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: dustin sedlacek 
  To: synth-diy 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 4:58 PM
  Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?


  Anyone know where to find some schems for a vactrol filter? I have found very little information on this on the net.

  -- 
  Dustin 
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From dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 01:00:01 2006
From: dustin.sedlacek at gmail.com (dustin sedlacek)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:00:01 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bffdb8aded85@171.64.60.224>
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20060125223821.GA29497@atc5.vermine.org>
	 <p06200701bffdb8aded85@171.64.60.224>
Message-ID: <b50a5d0a0601251600l33b794d5g372a8ea84bda7fb9@mail.gmail.com>

on the http://buzzclick-music.com/homebrew.html page listed i have looked at
the low pass gates many times. Isnt there a "trick" to add resonance?
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From scott at tellun.com  Thu Jan 26 01:15:43 2006
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:15:43 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] circuitbending expensive gear (or ESD-safe body contacts)
In-Reply-To: <7dde4aac0601250655k5a7ca190j709ebfc28b87de85@mail.gmail.com>
References: <908a4c120601242059p6b74da0ch5b5f9cf68e6ac5c4@mail.gmail.com>
 <7dde4aac0601250655k5a7ca190j709ebfc28b87de85@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06230902bffdc4730e5a@[192.168.1.102]>

At 8:55 AM -0600 2006/01/25, S. P. W.  wrote:
>While we are talking about CV I got a yamaha expression pedal with TRS
>1/4 plug, plugged it into my Matrix 6, and get only a change from 0 to
>2 according to midi monitor with the full range of motion. Did i get
>the wrong kind of pedal, or am I missing something. Values possible
>are from 1 to 64 or so, so that seems a bit limited to say the least.
>I have heard of a CV pedal, is that what I need?

Try swapping the tip and ring connection. IIRC, Oberheim gear uses 
the Roland pedal standard, not the Yamaha one. I built a simple TRS 
ring/tip switching patch cable (TRS plug on one end, TRS inline jack 
on the other end) that I use with my Yamaha pedals on non-Yamaha gear.


From don at till.com  Thu Jan 26 02:17:06 2006
From: don at till.com (Don Tillman)
Date: 25 Jan 2006 17:17:06 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] stupid non-inverting opamp
In-Reply-To: <20060125222236.GD47723@moo.sysabend.org> (message from Tom
	Arnold on Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:22:36 -0800)
References: <20060125222236.GD47723@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <m2fynb23fx.fsf@till.com>

   > Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:22:36 -0800
   > From: Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org>
   > 
   > http://www.themusic.net/rmp1-preamp.jpg
   > 
   > In short, it doesnt work.  Looking at the circuit I dont understand it.  I
   > see the feedback I'd expect ( R3 ) but then theres the outside feedback loop
   > of the pot, C4, and R2.  I just dont grok what was being done here, it
   > almost looks like a tone control vs a plain preamp.

This is a preamp circuit that a., does not invert, b., provides
variable gain, c., allows for gain less than unity, and d., doesn't
introduce noise by cutting the signal level and then applying gain
again.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Thu Jan 26 02:40:34 2006
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:40:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] stupid non-inverting opamp
Message-ID: <20060126014034.84988136@duckula.hotkey.net.au>

The pot varies gain by either shunting the "gain cell" output to ground
(less over all output), or increases gain by shunting the inverting input of
the "gain cell" to ground (more over all output).

There is only one feedback loop. The other is merely a voltage divider.

Ken


>So, I'm debugging the last of my EFM modules and of all things the simplist
>part of the module isnt working.
>
>Specifically :
>http://www.themusic.net/rmp1-preamp.jpg
>
>The always struck me as "I've got an opamp left over, I'll add a preamp" and
>I almost just left it off the panel, but now I have a knob for it and jacks
>so I hate to not make it work.
>
>In short, it doesnt work.  Looking at the circuit I dont understand it.  I
>see the feedback I'd expect ( R3 ) but then theres the outside feedback loop
>of the pot, C4, and R2.  I just dont grok what was being done here, it
>almost looks like a tone control vs a plain preamp.
>
>I'm about to just rip out R2/C4 and move the pot to R3 with a resistor in
>series, and bump R1 up to pot+new resistor and be done with it, but it'd be
>nifty to know possibly what was intended with the circuit before I go
>hacking on it.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>-- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
> - SynthGeek        -
> - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
> - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
> --------------------  
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au or sasami at cgs.synth.net
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>


From gene at ixiacom.com  Thu Jan 26 02:42:59 2006
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:42:59 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] stupid non-inverting opamp
Message-ID: <BCD0C6AAF20CEA41903A1284F549D61703C2F275@ixca-ex1.ixiacom.com>

It takes a little while for it to sink in - it's kinda clever. That ground
on the pot wiper is pulling double duty. The non-inverting gain is variable
all the way down to zero, unlike the normal non-inverting amp with a pot in
the feedback loop. It may be prone to distortion since there's a potential
initial gain of 101 cut down by a 10K/100K divider. It would be interesting
to plot the gains at various pot settings to see what kind of pot rotation
versus gain curve it has.

- Gene



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Don Tillman
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 5:17 PM
To: xyzzy at sysabend.org
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] stupid non-inverting opamp


   > Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:22:36 -0800
   > From: Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org>
   > 
   > http://www.themusic.net/rmp1-preamp.jpg
   > 
   > In short, it doesnt work.  Looking at the circuit I dont understand it.
I
   > see the feedback I'd expect ( R3 ) but then theres the outside feedback
loop
   > of the pot, C4, and R2.  I just dont grok what was being done here, it
   > almost looks like a tone control vs a plain preamp.

This is a preamp circuit that a., does not invert, b., provides
variable gain, c., allows for gain less than unity, and d., doesn't
introduce noise by cutting the signal level and then applying gain
again.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From megaohm1 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 04:42:07 2006
From: megaohm1 at gmail.com (megaohm)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:42:07 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0601251600l33b794d5g372a8ea84bda7fb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20060125223821.GA29497@atc5.vermine.org>
	 <p06200701bffdb8aded85@171.64.60.224>
	 <b50a5d0a0601251600l33b794d5g372a8ea84bda7fb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a6fac3a00601251942v3998ae88l6e77a2f85e050c02@mail.gmail.com>

Vactrol SVF. I built one and it's nice.


http://www2.charlielamm.com/synth/vactrolvcf.php3



peng
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From scottnoanh at peoplepc.com  Thu Jan 26 08:49:31 2006
From: scottnoanh at peoplepc.com (scottnoanh at peoplepc.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:49:31 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com> <20060125223821.GA29497@atc5.vermine.org> <p06200701bffdb8aded85@171.64.60.224> <b50a5d0a0601251600l33b794d5g372a8ea84bda7fb9@mail.gmail.com> <a6fac3a00601251942v3998ae88l6e77a2f85e050c02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002801c6224d$0dacea60$e903f504@default>

I've put together a couple of Vactrol phase shifters, a 291, an LPG, and the
Korg PS3XXX Resonator (triple res filter).

Hmmm....synchronicity?

I started a Vactrol based filter summer before last, got sidetracked, tore
it down and forgot about it.  Recently I was reminded of it, so Sunday I put
it back on the breadboard.

It's turning out to be quite interesting - it's often quite unlike any other
Vactrol filter I've played with yet.  I've dubbed it the Mutant, mainly
because it's a mutated variation of the LPG structure, with a touch of
MS-20. Sallen-Key, 24/12 dB variations of LP, BP (12 dB only) and HP, plus
some unusual res/filter combos, sprinkled with a liberal dash of borrowed
Rene Schmitz circuitry, without which none of my own Vactrol designs would
exist =0).

The filter can be fairly sublime, kick out the Buchla twang, or be a bit
more in-your-face than other Vactrol filters I've come to know and love.
Well, except for the 291, sometimes that filter gets more than in your
face....

I'll post schematics after I've tested it thoroughly and am fairly sure it
won't explode.

I've started a page about the filter and  uploaded samples here:

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id17.html


If nothing else, check out the third sample down - it gives one an idea
where this thing is headed.  Or not.

Cheers,
Scott


From amajorel at teaser.fr  Thu Jan 26 09:22:25 2006
From: amajorel at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:22:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bffdb8aded85@[171.64.60.224]>
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com> <20060125223821.GA29497@atc5.vermine.org> <p06200701bffdb8aded85@[171.64.60.224]>
Message-ID: <20060126082225.GB29497@atc5.vermine.org>

On 2006-01-25 15:24 -0800, Dino Leone wrote:

> you've got to be kidding.... this is where your link points to:
> http://buzzclick-music.com/vacfiltschem.jpg
> 
> not exactly the schematics... right? (Or is it 
> just me... am I off my medication again?? :-)

Heh heh... But there *is* a schematic for the low pass gate.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <amajorel at teaser.fr>
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From tonyallgood at btinternet.com  Thu Jan 26 09:41:50 2006
From: tonyallgood at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:41:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
In-Reply-To: <43D7E821.1010400@burnit.co.uk>
References: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@[171.64.60.224]> <20060125002725.GY47723@moo.sysabend.org> <006901c6214c$71202140$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <002501c621bf$538f2cc0$82c2fea9@tim3> <p06200707bffd76af75c4@[171.64.60.224]> <43D7E821.1010400@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43D88B4E.40409@btinternet.com>

 > on each module a ferrite bead and something like a 22-47uF cap per 
power rail ...

Steady here. A lot of folk have had problems with big caps in the power 
rails. With largish systems the overall capacitance can get too big for 
the PSU to handle at initial power on. The current surge is sufficient 
to confuse the supplies current limiting.

I would recommend 4.7uF elec and 100nF poly at the point of entry. And 
then plenty of 100nF around the board too.

If your power supply is standard current limit and no foldback then you 
could load it up with as much capacitance as you wish. But those with 
foldback based designs [Condor, Power One, International Power et al.] 
may want to avoid excessive capacitance on the rails.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From synth at charlielamm.com  Thu Jan 26 16:10:53 2006
From: synth at charlielamm.com (Synth)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:10:53 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008801c6228a$b6c7daa0$dc00a8c0@clbig>

http://www.charlielamm.com/synth/vactrolvcf.php3

--CL
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: dustin sedlacek 
  To: synth-diy 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:58 PM
  Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?


  Anyone know where to find some schems for a vactrol filter? I have found very little information on this on the net.

  -- 
  Dustin 
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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Thu Jan 26 18:45:26 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:45:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <00cd01c62298$00d65e20$9055f442@positronium>
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk> <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com> <6efc8fd20601241154t7d414c04j2e4c2cfc3f3eccac@mail.gmail.com> <00cd01c62298$00d65e20$9055f442@positronium>
Message-ID: <43D90AB6.2030507@burnit.co.uk>

Hi Anthony,

anthony wrote:

> I just thought I'd pipe in to add: why do you think a single-chip 
> delay would be much better than a BBD? Maybe a little edge in S/N. If 
> you used an MN3005 and clocked it fast you'd get a short delay. I use 
> an MN3006 (128 stage - shorty) with a double-notch filter. I clock it 
> at about 200 kHz. I also use R5106's (512 stage). I think these sound 
> very good, but the actual S/N is lower.
>  

You might be right that a single chip delay would not be much better 
than a BBD.  In which case, it will not be good enough for me.  For my 
purposes I definitely need a clean (get out what you put in) delay of 5 
to 50ms.  CD (44.1kHz/16bit) is the kind of quality level I'm aiming for.

Actually I'm now moving slightly away from the idea of a single chip 
delay as I don't think the quality will be good enough.  I was hoping to 
get some samples of the Mitsubishi (now Renesas) M65830 to try, but they 
turned down my samples request.  Anyway, from the datasheet the quality 
didn't really look good enough.

One key thing I'd like to achieve is consistent quality with different 
delay times.  So ideally I'd like to vary the buffer size not the clock 
rate.

But I still do want a simple (minimum component count) solution...

My current thinking is to use a high end PIC with some kind of ADC and 
DAC on the front and back of it.  Yes I know a DSP chip would be better, 
but I have a PIC programmer and I know how to program PICs.  As for the 
ADC and DAC, I haven't decided whether to use hand-rolled adaptive Delta 
modulator converters at ~750kHz/1bit, or just to use off the shelf 
converters at 48kHz/16bit.  As for RAM, I was planning to use the 
internal RAM of the PIC, but this would only be enough for 1 channel (I 
want 2 independent delays), so rather than add a second PIC for the 2nd 
channel I may as well just add an external RAM chip.

> Now if they make a single-chip delay that does 192 kHz/32-bit well 
> then I'm there...
>  
> I bought a Soundblaster at Wal-Mart not looking closely at the box - 
> seeing only 192 kHz. That was just tej stinking digital playback. 
> Rats. But I'm getting OT. Not to mention the cheap soundblasters sound 
> absolutely HORRIBLE on XP. I wish I'd saved the money I spent on a new 
> Dell and got a used G4 Mac.

Well, I don't want to get into the whole PC vs Mac debate, but my PC 
sounds spot on .. then again I do have a proper studio soundcard.  In 
any case if you want to use any kind of music software you're going to 
want decent ASIO drivers (not the crap that comes from Creative).  The 
EMU sound cards are a good bet if you don't want to spend too much.

Seb


From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 26 19:06:06 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:06:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] LM3083 vs LM3086
In-Reply-To: <010c01c6229e$b41c2b80$9055f442@positronium>
References: <20050620175656.48979.qmail@web25509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
 <010c01c6229e$b41c2b80$9055f442@positronium>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060126105745.03423b70@mail.earthlink.net>

At 10:34 AM 1/26/06, anthony wrote:

>I have seen LM3086's in lots of synth designs but I have a bunch of 
>LM3083's. Would these work in place of the '86? Is one better than the 
>other? I looked at the datasheets, but I really couldn't decide how much 
>different they were.

The 3083 is my prefered NPN array for expo converters.  I have found good 
matching for the Q1/Q2 pair in almost all devices I tested.  Note that 
matching for the 3086 pair is not even spec'ed!  Also the 3083's substrate 
has a separate connection, not connected to one of the emitters as in 3086 
and 3046.  The 3083 also has low emitter series resistance, which gives it 
much better log conformance than the 3046. I don't know this parameter for 
the 3083, but it is probably not good, since it is a low power device.

You are golden!

   Ian 


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Thu Jan 26 19:37:32 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:37:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <200601261312.04315.rtellason@blazenet.net>
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk> <00cd01c62298$00d65e20$9055f442@positronium> <43D90AB6.2030507@burnit.co.uk> <200601261312.04315.rtellason@blazenet.net>
Message-ID: <43D916EC.2080301@burnit.co.uk>

And Mitsubishi too.  From the datasheet..

"The semiconductor operations of Hitachi and Mitsubishi Electric were 
transferred to Renesas
Technology Corporation on April 1st 2003. These operations include 
microcomputer, logic, analog
and discrete devices, and memory chips other than DRAMs (flash memory, 
SRAMs etc.)
....
Mitsubishi Electric will continue the business operations of high 
frequency & optical devices
and power devices."

By the way, I meant to write M65850 not M65830.

Seb


Roy J. Tellason wrote:

>On Thursday 26 January 2006 12:45 pm, Seb Francis wrote:
>  
>
>>I was hoping to get some samples of the Mitsubishi (now Renesas) M65830 to
>>try, 
>>    
>>
>
>It's Hitachi that changed their name to Renesas...
>
>  
>


From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Thu Jan 26 19:39:11 2006
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:39:11 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <43D90AB6.2030507@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk> <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com>
 <6efc8fd20601241154t7d414c04j2e4c2cfc3f3eccac@mail.gmail.com>
 <00cd01c62298$00d65e20$9055f442@positronium> <43D90AB6.2030507@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601262032080.5237@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Seb Francis wrote:

> BBD.  In which case, it will not be good enough for me.  For my purposes I 
> definitely need a clean (get out what you put in) delay of 5 to 50ms.  CD 
> (44.1kHz/16bit) is the kind of quality level I'm aiming for.

Seems to me that you need a ADC/DAC or a CODEC + interface + a bit of 
sram.

> But I still do want a simple (minimum component count) solution...

Is three ICs good enough?

> My current thinking is to use a high end PIC with some kind of ADC and DAC on 
> the front and back of it.  Yes I know a DSP chip would be better, but I have 
> a PIC programmer and I know how to program PICs.  As for the ADC and DAC, I

What I'd do is find a suitable oversampling codec (there are many that are 
cheap and decent quality) and use dsPIC to interface between that (dsPIC 
has codec interface that can handle the serial datastream) and a cheap 
32kbyte SRAM.

The caveat: pretty much all modern (read obtainable) codecs, adcs and dacs 
are SMD.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From fdi at ran.es  Thu Jan 26 19:48:54 2006
From: fdi at ran.es (Fernando de Izuzquiza)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:48:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] upgrading my Envelope Generators
In-Reply-To: <3f2ffabc0601251448gb46463fl@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f2ffabc0601251448gb46463fl@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c77b7b268b7db3a1588cb3678fcea14d@ran.es>

Check also EnvyLope from Aaron Cram, is based on JH idea, IIRC

Best wishes to all,

Fernando


El 25/01/2006, a las 23:48, Benjam?n Velasco escribi?:

> Hi list!!
> ?
> I currently have 2 EG on my modular but i want to replace them basicly 
> because i want a retrigger feature (mine only has gate). Im planning 
> to build the EGs from Ray Wilson's site, but also im very impressed 
> with the VCHADSR from Jurgen Haible's and the Bergfotron site. This EG 
> has very interesting unique features and also all the parameters are 
> VoltageControlled.?I was wondering if it could be possible to add a 
> retrigger feature to this?VCHADSR in a simple way. Or maybe it has it 
> and i don't see it :))). Thank you all
> ?
> ?
> Benjam?n
> ?
> ?


From rainer at buchty.net  Thu Jan 26 20:08:41 2006
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:08:41 +0100 (CET)
Subject: AD847, AD848, EL2044 (Re: [sdiy] Op Amp Upgrades + Voltage Regs)
In-Reply-To: <00ee01c6229d$2d1a8380$9055f442@positronium>
References: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNKEJPLLAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>
 <00ee01c6229d$2d1a8380$9055f442@positronium>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601262006150.20650@laptop.buchty.net>

> Also I should point out that if you have an old color scanner that's 
> either broken or collecting dust you should crack it open - LOTS of 
> good stuff inside.

In case it's an old Scanjet and at least the mechanical and electrical 
system is working:
	http://www.ganjatron.net/misc/scanjet/scanjet.html

Rainer


From colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com  Thu Jan 26 20:21:37 2006
From: colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com (Colin Raffel)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:21:37 -0500
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[sdiy]_=B112V_from_+12V_Linear.?=
In-Reply-To: <BFFE84AF.524D%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <BFFE84AF.524D%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <B3C4FF24-3BDC-4A29-A544-83D547573C9B@experimentalistsanonymous.com>

It's possible, but kind of shady.

Take a look at RG Keen's article here:
http://geofex.com/circuits/+9_to_33.htm

You could easily create a voltage divider to get 9v, add on the  
"+25v" modification, then create a vBias at 12.5v... bam, you have  
+/-12v.  This chip does suck power and does not give much current  
output, but you may's well give it a try.

-Colin

On Jan 26, 2006, at 8:52 AM, Dave Kendall wrote:

> on 26/1/06 14:53, Paul Schreiber at synth1 at airmail.net wrote:
>
>> Nope.
>>
>> Paul S.
>
> I guess what I meant was, are there any circuits or devices that  
> will do
> this?
>
> I've got a horrible feeling what the answer is going to be....
>
> :-)
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave Kendall" <davekendall at ntlworld.com>
>> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:21 AM
>> Subject: [sdiy] ?12V from +12V Linear.
>>
>>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> Have got a N.O.S 12V 1.7 Amp +12V linear open-frame PSU made by  
>> Bulgin. I
>> was wondering if it would be possible to modify it to give ?12V?
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>
>
>



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Thu Jan 26 20:46:37 2006
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:46:37 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[sdiy]_=B112V_from_+12V_Linear.?=
In-Reply-To: <BFFE7D40.5243%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
References: <BFFE7D40.5243%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20060126204155.03775718@pop.xs4all.nl>

Hi Dave,

At 14:21 26-1-2006, Dave Kendall wrote:
>Hi all.
>
>Have got a N.O.S 12V 1.7 Amp +12V linear open-frame PSU made by Bulgin. I
>was wondering if it would be possible to modify it to give ?12V?

You could add an inverting DC-DC converter to make the -12V.

See:
http://para.maxim-ic.com/compare.asp?Fam=DCDC_All&Tree=PowerSupplies&HP=PowerSupplies.cfm&ln=&SORD=1751&FT_1751=21302&ITEMLIST=175E5,17608,17609,1760A,1760B,1760C,1760D,1760E,1760F,17610,17611,17612,17613,17614,17615,17616,17617,17618,17619,1761A,1761B


Vriendelijke groet,
Simon Brouwer.

| nl.openoffice.org | www.opentaal.org |



From Dirk at autojet.be  Thu Jan 26 20:47:42 2006
From: Dirk at autojet.be (Vanden Berghe, Dirk)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:47:42 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Panels-Bare Alumium
Message-ID: <4896F139A122E14985A62873B519EEC1015DB2E9@sscoxchg2.spray.com>

Hi Ken,

Why don?t you look for company cutting panels with laser. I had approximately 2 sq.meters of cut and drilled (by laser) alu panels for less than ? 100.00

They were cut according to an AutoCad drawing and I just had to deburr edges. I used 6061T6, harded grade of standard 6061. (aircraft grade)

Dirkeys

________________________________

From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of ken mosley
Sent: donderdag 26 januari 2006 20:24
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Panels-Bare Alumium

 

Does anyone have any recommendations for an online store selling bare aluminum?  I was thinking of placing an order with metalexpress.com.  Anyone used them lately?  Which should I buy 5052 or 6061 if I want to make panels? 

 

ken m.

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From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu Jan 26 21:57:25 2006
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:57:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk> <00cd01c62298$00d65e20$9055f442@positronium> <43D90AB6.2030507@burnit.co.uk> <200601261312.04315.rtellason@blazenet.net> <43D916EC.2080301@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <017401c622bb$1dd51390$9055f442@positronium>

Someone mentioned this before but you should really check this out:
http://www.analog-monster.de/scr_en.html


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 26 22:13:52 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:13:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Vactrol filters?
References: <b50a5d0a0601251358k3c1329e6k8fd4ac54783a0e94@mail.gmail.com> <43D7F8B9.2050509@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43D93B90.2B893F47@prodigy.net>

Look for schematics for the Mutron III envelope follower.

It is a vactrol State-Variable filter with multiple outputs

H^) harry

Seb Francis wrote:
> 
> I think you would just take any static filter circuit and replace the
> resistor(s) that set frequency with vactrols.  Then control the vactrol
> with a CV.  Or if it's a VCF, you want to replace the OTA with the vactrol.
> 
> But sorry, can't give you any links.
> 
> Seb
> 
> dustin sedlacek wrote:
> 
> > Anyone know where to find some schems for a vactrol filter? I have
> > found very little information on this on the net.
> >
> > --
> > Dustin


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 26 22:23:43 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:23:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
References: <p06200703bffc6ae3bb82@[171.64.60.224]> <20060125002725.GY47723@moo.sysabend.org> <006901c6214c$71202140$0a01a8c0@frostwave> <002501c621bf$538f2cc0$82c2fea9@tim3> <p06200707bffd76af75c4@[171.64.60.224]> <43D7E821.1010400@burnit.co.uk> <43D88B4E.40409@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <43D93DDF.1F2EC219@prodigy.net>

Of course you can add soft start to any power supply... in fact for
large systems its a good idea and is often included in professional
designs.

I had to do this for a synth that drew 400mA from a 800mA supply...
the start up capacitance was too high. I used two resistors in series
with the supplies (15 ohms) then shorted them out with relay contacts
after one second. Click - ready

H^) harry

Oakley Sound wrote:
> 
>  > on each module a ferrite bead and something like a 22-47uF cap per
> power rail ...
> 
> Steady here. A lot of folk have had problems with big caps in the power
> rails. With largish systems the overall capacitance can get too big for
> the PSU to handle at initial power on. The current surge is sufficient
> to confuse the supplies current limiting.
> 
> I would recommend 4.7uF elec and 100nF poly at the point of entry. And
> then plenty of 100nF around the board too.
> 
> If your power supply is standard current limit and no foldback then you
> could load it up with as much capacitance as you wish. But those with
> foldback based designs [Condor, Power One, International Power et al.]
> may want to avoid excessive capacitance on the rails.
> 
> Tony
> 
> www.oakleysound.com


From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Thu Jan 26 23:02:25 2006
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:02:25 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] connectors for power distribution
Message-ID: <20060126220225.D9A8B33F@duckula.hotkey.net.au>

Soft start isn't so good ont things that use power-on reset though!
Personally, I'd rather have a nice clean power-up, even if there are some
down-sides to it. That's why I made the power-on delay circuit board.

Ken

>Of course you can add soft start to any power supply... in fact for
>large systems its a good idea and is often included in professional
>designs.
>
>I had to do this for a synth that drew 400mA from a 800mA supply...
>the start up capacitance was too high. I used two resistors in series
>with the supplies (15 ohms) then shorted them out with relay contacts
>after one second. Click - ready
>
>H^) harry
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au or sasami at cgs.synth.net
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>


From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu Jan 26 23:22:21 2006
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:22:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] slightly OT: Danelectro Hash Browns FLanger & crappy sound
References: <1820a14d0601261123y65353492q6c7802c8f1be01e5@mail.gmail.com> <20060126195308.GJ47723@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <018201c622c6$fbf4a0e0$9055f442@positronium>

This is probably more appropriate at a stompbox forum, but I tend to 
appreciate the repsonses I get here more.
Anyway I read a few reviews about the Danelectro Hash Browns Flanger. I 
expected that all of them would say something like "the crappiest crap that 
ever crapped," but people seem to like it. So I went to a guitar store to 
try it out - ya know because it's nice and cheap and so am I. So I tried it. 
Shit sandwich. What it sounded like to me was that they had 2 BBD's in there 
and their clocks were aliasing. Or more likely it was just really bad clock 
feedthrough. It was a squeal. I was wondering if these used the reissued 
MN3207's. I'm wary of Hong Kong chip knock-offs and wondered how they 
actually sound. I mean I was wondering if it was simply a design issue or 
crappy parts - critical parts that can't simply be swapped out (well...). I 
figured if it was the BBD I could put in an old 3207 since I have one. (But 
I kind of like it in my Realistic Reverb.) Or I could put it in a different 
box and change soem capacitors here and there. But there gets to be a point 
of diminishing returns. Besides I built a John Hollis flanger - I just 
haven't put it in a box. The reason why I'm interested in more than one 
flanger is I decided that instead of having one flanger that does everything 
it would be more fun to have several that were each tweaked to do something 
special.

My big problem is finding decnelty priced prject boxes that are big enough. 
I really have enough BBD's to not warrant a purchase of any BBD device. 
Improvised enclosures are fun, but I often can't find just the right thing. 
I suppose I could gather dead stompboxes on eBay. I have a Geiger counter 
that is going to become an analog multi-effects processor (compressor, 
chorus, flanger, phaser - fixed and variable, comb filter array using 
MN3006's, CGS Steiner-Parker filter, Buchla Lowpass Gate, envelope follower, 
asymmetric soft clipping distortion...) 



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Fri Jan 27 00:20:35 2006
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:20:35 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
Message-ID: <20060126232035.50438.qmail@web26213.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi all, i'm currently trying my luck adopting another
Ren? Schmitz design to 9v. The 555-based adsr2;
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/adsr2.png

I don't get the ADSR to work, it seems like the
reset-pin doesn't like the non-reset VCC feed it gets
from the transistors. It resets fine with the circuit
given but it can't be set again unless i manually move
the wire from Reset to VCC. Of course, i've measured
the collector tied to Reset, and it is approx. 8.8V
which should be more than fine as i understand it.

I just thought there might be some "magic" as with the
noise source that i had to tie to -9 instead of GND.
Btw, could someone explain that a little closer? JH
mentioned the reverse breakdown voltage or "zener"
voltage, BE, but that is stated to be 6V for a
BC547...  ??

anyhow, help appreciated with the ADSR so i can finish
this project!

Thanks

Karl


From xamboldt at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 27 00:46:14 2006
From: xamboldt at earthlink.net (xamboldt)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:46:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] upgrading my Envelope Generators
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c622ca$199681b0$3a39af44@santaelena>
References: <3f2ffabc0601251448gb46463fl@mail.gmail.com> <4A589FD4-5663-46DA-A39F-0F826E1357F2@earthlink.net> <00cb01c622ca$199681b0$3a39af44@santaelena>
Message-ID: <FA2CE736-E0F1-49F2-8AA1-314D88DB2B38@earthlink.net>

I had written up a step-by-step guide on the EFM forum, but that  
folded when Tom G pulled the plug. Stupidly, I didn't have a back up.  
It's worth mentioning that I didn't actually come up with this idea,  
from what I understand Scott Bernardi came up with the idea and Dave  
Kendall mentioned the mod a while back, and this sparked my interest  
in giving it a shot. Anyway, here's a basic version of what I did:

The re-triggering functionality is already built into the design. The  
gate signal just passes through a differentiator, which pulses the  
trigger section. To get it to retrigger, you just have to separate  
the gate and trigger signals internally.

First of all I used comparators to boost both the trigger in and gate  
in signals (I found that the unit didn't gate/trigger reliably  
without them). Then I took the gate signal and send that through the  
circuitry leading to pin 9 of the 4052 (if you use a comparator  
first, I suppose if you wanted to you could skip this aforementioned  
circuitry, which is just a buffer). I then also sent the post- 
comparator gate signal through a diode and C3, then normalled this to  
the trigger in. This way, it still works with just a gate. Then the  
trigger in ends up at pin 6 of U2. Make sure that if you use a  
comparator on the trigger in it comes before the normalization of the  
gate signal (i.e. the normalled gate signal should not pass through  
the trigger in comparator), otherwise the differentiator formed by C3  
and R17 won't work.

Obviously the Gate/Trigger switch becomes useless if you do this mod.  
If you want trigger only mode, just normal the Gate high and then the  
trigger will work by itself as long as no gate is plugged in (just  
remember to turn the sustain down).

Also, for LFO mode to work, you should use a DPDT switch and have one  
pole hooked up like before, and the other pole with the center hooked  
up to the gate in signal that goes from the panel to the PCB, the LFO  
pole hooked up to +V, and the ADSR pole hooked up to the gate in jack.

PURE SPECULATION WARNING - the LFO switch MIGHT work as it did before  
if you just keep the original SPST switch, but  then the LFO would  
only cycle when the gate is high - this could be cool if you want a  
gated LFO. THIS MIGHT NOT BE TRUE - I haven't tested this possibility  
- it could screw with some of the logic going on internally and hang  
the LFO up. I seem to remember something like that happening to me  
before, but I try to block out most of the painful memories I have  
from troubleshooting EFM stuff.

I hope that's not too rambly... Let me know if it doesn't make sense...

-Chris


On Jan 26, 2006, at 5:44 PM, elmacaco wrote:

> Do you have any records of the mods you performed?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "xamboldt" <xamboldt at earthlink.net>
> To: "Synth DIY List" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] upgrading my Envelope Generators
>
>
>> If you can find the schematics for Tom G's VCRADSR (VC control of
>> ADSR and Rate), I and a few other people have successfully modded it
>> to work with gates and triggers...
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2006, at 5:48 PM, Benjam?n Velasco wrote:
>>
>>> Hi list!!
>>>
>>> I currently have 2 EG on my modular but i want to replace them
>>> basicly because i want a retrigger feature (mine only has gate). Im
>>> planning to build the EGs from Ray Wilson's site, but also im very
>>> impressed with the VCHADSR from Jurgen Haible's and the Bergfotron
>>> site. This EG has very interesting unique features and also all the
>>> parameters are VoltageControlled. I was wondering if it could be
>>> possible to add a retrigger feature to this VCHADSR in a simple
>>> way. Or maybe it has it and i don't see it :))). Thank you all
>>>
>>>
>>> Benjam?n
>>>
>>>
>>
>



From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan 27 01:59:36 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:59:36 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] slightly OT: Danelectro Hash Browns FLanger & crappy sound
References: <1820a14d0601261123y65353492q6c7802c8f1be01e5@mail.gmail.com> <20060126195308.GJ47723@moo.sysabend.org> <018201c622c6$fbf4a0e0$9055f442@positronium>
Message-ID: <43D97078.6DECFAB7@prodigy.net>

LOL... you're right, right rigth.

More appropriate in a stompbox forum... but since you being this EVIL
here...

Picture him saying "BBD" and I replay in a gruff voice

"We do not SPEAK the language of MORDOR here..."

I don't know that there is inherently anything wrong (besides being
a BBD) with the Hong Kong reissues.

Your description sounds about like what I thought when I tried the
"Electric Mistress" for the first time... like "who would pay money
for this piece of sh!t ?"

However, many people did.... and swear by the sound. (not me :^)

In order to do a BBD 'right' you need sophisticated filtering before
and after the chip, as well as companding etc... 

I like sescom.com rack mount cases. Don't know if you call them 'cheap'
but they are real easy to work with.

H^) harry

anthony wrote:
> 
> This is probably more appropriate at a stompbox forum, but I tend to
> appreciate the repsonses I get here more.
> Anyway I read a few reviews about the Danelectro Hash Browns Flanger. I
> expected that all of them would say something like "the crappiest crap that
> ever crapped," but people seem to like it. So I went to a guitar store to
> try it out - ya know because it's nice and cheap and so am I. So I tried it.
> Shit sandwich. What it sounded like to me was that they had 2 BBD's in there
> and their clocks were aliasing. Or more likely it was just really bad clock
> feedthrough. It was a squeal. I was wondering if these used the reissued
> MN3207's. I'm wary of Hong Kong chip knock-offs and wondered how they
> actually sound. I mean I was wondering if it was simply a design issue or
> crappy parts - critical parts that can't simply be swapped out (well...). I
> figured if it was the BBD I could put in an old 3207 since I have one. (But
> I kind of like it in my Realistic Reverb.) Or I could put it in a different
> box and change soem capacitors here and there. But there gets to be a point
> of diminishing returns. Besides I built a John Hollis flanger - I just
> haven't put it in a box. The reason why I'm interested in more than one
> flanger is I decided that instead of having one flanger that does everything
> it would be more fun to have several that were each tweaked to do something
> special.
> 
> My big problem is finding decnelty priced prject boxes that are big enough.
> I really have enough BBD's to not warrant a purchase of any BBD device.
> Improvised enclosures are fun, but I often can't find just the right thing.
> I suppose I could gather dead stompboxes on eBay. I have a Geiger counter
> that is going to become an analog multi-effects processor (compressor,
> chorus, flanger, phaser - fixed and variable, comb filter array using
> MN3006's, CGS Steiner-Parker filter, Buchla Lowpass Gate, envelope follower,
> asymmetric soft clipping distortion...)


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Fri Jan 27 02:08:30 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:08:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
References: <20060126232035.50438.qmail@web26213.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43D9728E.3D097044@prodigy.net>

does it work OK on +/-15 ???

There are some 555 circuits that work with one manufacturer
of 555 and not others. They are NOT all alike internally.

I had real troubles with the Chris MacDonald "MiniModular"
until he told me about the issue.  I don't recall whose
chip worked... but I had Motorola, Signetics, and National
chips... only one worked. It WAS a reset pin issue so beware

H^) harry

Karl Ekdahl wrote:
> 
> Hi all, i'm currently trying my luck adopting another
> Ren? Schmitz design to 9v. The 555-based adsr2;
> http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/adsr2.png
> 
> I don't get the ADSR to work, it seems like the
> reset-pin doesn't like the non-reset VCC feed it gets
> from the transistors. It resets fine with the circuit
> given but it can't be set again unless i manually move
> the wire from Reset to VCC. Of course, i've measured
> the collector tied to Reset, and it is approx. 8.8V
> which should be more than fine as i understand it.
> 
> I just thought there might be some "magic" as with the
> noise source that i had to tie to -9 instead of GND.
> Btw, could someone explain that a little closer? JH
> mentioned the reverse breakdown voltage or "zener"
> voltage, BE, but that is stated to be 6V for a
> BC547...  ??
> 
> anyhow, help appreciated with the ADSR so i can finish
> this project!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Karl


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri Jan 27 02:17:10 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:17:10 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601262032080.5237@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk> <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com> <6efc8fd20601241154t7d414c04j2e4c2cfc3f3eccac@mail.gmail.com> <00cd01c62298$00d65e20$9055f442@positronium> <43D90AB6.2030507@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601262032080.5237@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <43D97496.50703@burnit.co.uk>

Hi Antti,

Antti Huovilainen wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Seb Francis wrote:
>
>> BBD.  In which case, it will not be good enough for me.  For my 
>> purposes I definitely need a clean (get out what you put in) delay of 
>> 5 to 50ms.  CD (44.1kHz/16bit) is the kind of quality level I'm 
>> aiming for.
>
>
> Seems to me that you need a ADC/DAC or a CODEC + interface + a bit of 
> sram.
>
>> But I still do want a simple (minimum component count) solution...
>
>
> Is three ICs good enough?

Yeah, it's looking like it will have to be..

>
>> My current thinking is to use a high end PIC with some kind of ADC 
>> and DAC on the front and back of it.  Yes I know a DSP chip would be 
>> better, but I have a PIC programmer and I know how to program PICs.  
>> As for the ADC and DAC, I
>
>
> What I'd do is find a suitable oversampling codec (there are many that 
> are cheap and decent quality) and use dsPIC to interface between that 
> (dsPIC has codec interface that can handle the serial datastream) and 
> a cheap 32kbyte SRAM.
>
Do you mean by CODEC, a combined ADC and DAC?  I hadn't even thought 
about looking for such a thing, but it makes sense to use one.

> The caveat: pretty much all modern (read obtainable) codecs, adcs and 
> dacs are SMD.
>
The problem with using a dsPIC is I have only a Picstart Plus which 
can't program them.  But I think a PIC18FXXX would be enough for my 
simple delay application.  As you say though it's tricky to find stuff 
that isn't SMD.  I think I've found some suitable chips though ...

AD677 - 16-Bit, Serial, 100 kSPS Sampling ADC
AD1851 or AD1856 - 16-Bit PCM Audio DACs
Cypress CY62256 - 32kbyte SRAM

Both have SPI interface so it would be easy to interface them with a 
PIC, but I'm a bit confused about the amount of oversampling needed for 
the DAC.  These DACs support up to 16x or 8x oversampling respectively.  
Does this mean they can effectively be driven up to 16x 48kHz?  There 
doesn't seem to be a specific sampling rate figure mentioned on the 
datasheets, although if you do the maths based on the SPI max clock rate 
it looks like they mean 16x 48kHz.  Where am I going to get all this 
data from?  The max data I will have from the ADC will be at 96kHz, and 
even then I'd prefer only to store half of it (48kHz).  How is this 
oversampling data generated?

Seb



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Fri Jan 27 02:39:30 2006
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:39:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] slightly OT: Danelectro Hash Browns FLanger & crappy sound
References: <1820a14d0601261123y65353492q6c7802c8f1be01e5@mail.gmail.com> <20060126195308.GJ47723@moo.sysabend.org> <018201c622c6$fbf4a0e0$9055f442@positronium> <43D97078.6DECFAB7@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <018901c622e2$864a7e20$9055f442@positronium>

I think I'll just stick to building my own stuff.

> In order to do a BBD 'right' you need sophisticated filtering before
> and after the chip, as well as companding etc...

Maybe a little compression/limiting at the input but I prefer to use an 
LM1894 Dynamic Noise Reduction chip - of which I have a few. They work a lot 
like an NE570 compandor except that it's a VCF instead of a VCA. The 
response time is a LOT faster so you don't get ' pumping' at fast time 
constants. It's single ended too which means you don't have to do anything 
to the signal before the BBD. But since the chip is stereo with a single 
control path, you can put one channel on the input and one on the output. 
And you can connect the control path to the input or the output depending on 
what your doing (pre or post). The regular filters can be pretty lax. Also 
the filter can be pretty lax if your clock is running between say 200kHz and 
2MHz.

I've read a lot about 'through-zero' flanging too. Really all you need is 2 
flangers run parallel. Along with a phaser is pretty cool too.

ramble on...



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Fri Jan 27 07:45:02 2006
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:45:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] using a CA3080 and a 2SC3622 instead of a LM13700
References: <1820a14d0601261123y65353492q6c7802c8f1be01e5@mail.gmail.com> <20060126195308.GJ47723@moo.sysabend.org> <018201c622c6$fbf4a0e0$9055f442@positronium> <43D97078.6DECFAB7@prodigy.net> <018901c622e2$864a7e20$9055f442@positronium> <019801c62307$16855d60$9055f442@positronium>
Message-ID: <000601c6230d$34e27080$9055f442@positronium>

I was wondering if a super high gain transistor like the 2SC3622 would make 
a good substitute for the buffer in an LM13700. I have a lot of 3080's and 
quite a few 2SC3622's so this would be an attractive approach. I suppose I 
could just try it out and let you guys know. What I'm doing is building a 
Small Stone clone.




From lsh.synth at seznam.cz  Fri Jan 27 09:25:43 2006
From: lsh.synth at seznam.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Jaroslav_Luke=B9?=)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:25:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
In-Reply-To: <20060126232035.50438.qmail@web26213.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060127082553.41762194074@smtp.etmail.cz>

> diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Karl Ekdahl
> Hi all, i'm currently trying my luck adopting another
> Ren? Schmitz design to 9v. The 555-based adsr2;
> http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/adsr2.png

Did you try to change resistor values?

> I don't get the ADSR to work, it seems like the
> reset-pin doesn't like the non-reset VCC feed it gets

Which 555 do you use? Some manufacturers make 555 with some different
functions than original!

> from the transistors. It resets fine with the circuit
> given but it can't be set again unless i manually move
> the wire from Reset to VCC. Of course, i've measured
> the collector tied to Reset, and it is approx. 8.8V
> which should be more than fine as i understand it.
> 
> I just thought there might be some "magic" as with the
> noise source that i had to tie to -9 instead of GND.
> Btw, could someone explain that a little closer? JH
> mentioned the reverse breakdown voltage or "zener"
> voltage, BE, but that is stated to be 6V for a
> BC547...  ??

No it does not have nothing with "zener" voltage, it is more like avalanche
principle.

You could select transistors to get noise from <9V voltage, I was make
little portable battery powered synth for my childs, that runs noise from
cca 7V (under this voltage noise generator does not work). I use some >20yrs
old czech Si transistor.

Regards, JL.





From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Fri Jan 27 14:27:57 2006
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:27:57 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <43D97496.50703@burnit.co.uk>
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk> <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com>
 <6efc8fd20601241154t7d414c04j2e4c2cfc3f3eccac@mail.gmail.com>
 <00cd01c62298$00d65e20$9055f442@positronium> <43D90AB6.2030507@burnit.co.uk>
 <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601262032080.5237@vipunen.hut.fi> <43D97496.50703@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601271509290.27283@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006, Seb Francis wrote:

> Do you mean by CODEC, a combined ADC and DAC?  I hadn't even thought about

Yes. Cheaper and less trouble than separate ADC & DAC. There is some 
quality cost but it's unlikely you could get true 100 dB SNR without prior 
mixed signal experience anyway.

> The problem with using a dsPIC is I have only a Picstart Plus which can't 
> program them.  But I think a PIC18FXXX would be enough for my simple delay

The main issue here is interfacing. You REALLY want constant reliable 
timing. dsPIC's codec interface would handle that automatically.
If the adc & dac have internal oversampling, processing power is a 
non-issue.

> Both have SPI interface so it would be easy to interface them with a PIC, but 
> I'm a bit confused about the amount of oversampling needed for the DAC. 
> These DACs support up to 16x or 8x oversampling respectively.  Does this mean 
> they can effectively be driven up to 16x 48kHz?  There doesn't seem to be a

That depends on whether it has internal oversampling or not. Preferably 
you'd want both ADC & DAC to have internal oversampling. Manual 
oversampling (2-4x) is also possible, but you pretty much need dsPIC or 
other dsp for that.

> the maths based on the SPI max clock rate it looks like they mean 16x 48kHz. 
> Where am I going to get all this data from?  The max data I will have from 
> the ADC will be at 96kHz, and even then I'd prefer only to store half of it 
> (48kHz).  How is this oversampling data generated?

You downsample the input and upsample the output. In practise this means 
zero-stuffing and FIR filtering = lots of multiplications = DSP.
Or you can just get a codec that does it automatically.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Fri Jan 27 14:31:11 2006
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:31:11 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] slightly OT: Danelectro Hash Browns FLanger & crappy
 sound
In-Reply-To: <018201c622c6$fbf4a0e0$9055f442@positronium>
References: <1820a14d0601261123y65353492q6c7802c8f1be01e5@mail.gmail.com>
 <20060126195308.GJ47723@moo.sysabend.org> <018201c622c6$fbf4a0e0$9055f442@positronium>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601271529080.27283@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, anthony wrote:

> Anyway I read a few reviews about the Danelectro Hash Browns Flanger. I 
> expected that all of them would say something like "the crappiest crap that 
> ever crapped," but people seem to like it. So I went to a guitar store to try 
> it out - ya know because it's nice and cheap and so am I. So I tried it. Shit 
> sandwich. What it sounded like to me was that they had 2 BBD's in there and

I actually have this same flanger and it sounds just fine to me. However, 
my issue is with their phaser. At first it had mistuned range with the 
sound completely cutting off at the end of the sweep. After manually 
adjusting the trimpot it now works. Sorta. Still sounds crap.

Conclusion: Danelectro probably have no quality control but not all their 
pedals are inherently crap. You might find good units.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Jan 27 15:21:25 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:21:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
Message-ID: <200601271521.k0RFLPp10424@linux7>

If the large resistors are a problem, the CMOS version (7555) might help. 
The datasheet I have says "Extremely low input currents of 20pA".  It also
claims a PS voltage of 18V (abs. max.).  However, since these are series
pots, just reducing their value by turning them "down" should cause the
circuit to work at some point - if that's what the problem is.  I can't see
anything about the circuit that would prevent it from working at 9 volts and
I don't see a reason that you even need a negative supply at all (You mention
a +/- 9V supply, are you connecting the -9V as the circuit's ground?  That
could be a problem).  I'd bet the circuit should work from a single +5V supply.



=?us-ascii?Q?Jaroslav_Lukes?= <lsh.synth at seznam.cz> wrote:
>> From: Karl Ekdahl [mailto:elektrodwarf at yahoo.se]
>> Hi Jaroslav, i've tried changing the 4.7k to Reset
>> since it seems the VCC feed was to low, but without
>
>Not that,I was think about resistors with Mohm values (A/D/S/R).
>
>> any luck. The 555's i tried are CA555CE from Harris
>> and RCA, and also a NE555N from ST. Earlier i also
>> tried NE556A from ST. I can't verify wheter this
>> circuit does actually run from a +-15 since i don't
>> have anything but a +-9V supply here (i've moved
>> recently).
>
>Hmmm. I think that you use all versions that are less or more different from
>original. Use 555 from philips or TI. In my country before many years was
>published list of differences between mfgr's for 555, but I could not find
>it now. I was remember Philips and TI only that are good.
>
>Regards, JL.
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.


From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Fri Jan 27 15:44:13 2006
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:44:13 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: RE: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
In-Reply-To: <20060127082553.41762194074@smtp.etmail.cz>
Message-ID: <20060127144413.84831.qmail@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi Jaroslav, i've tried changing the 4.7k to Reset
since it seems the VCC feed was to low, but without
any luck. The 555's i tried are CA555CE from Harris
and RCA, and also a NE555N from ST. Earlier i also
tried NE556A from ST. I can't verify wheter this
circuit does actually run from a +-15 since i don't
have anything but a +-9V supply here (i've moved
recently).

Thanks
Karl


--- Jaroslav Luke? <lsh.synth at seznam.cz> skrev:

> > diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Karl Ekdahl
> > Hi all, i'm currently trying my luck adopting
> another
> > Ren? Schmitz design to 9v. The 555-based adsr2;
> > http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/adsr2.png
> 
> Did you try to change resistor values?
> 
> > I don't get the ADSR to work, it seems like the
> > reset-pin doesn't like the non-reset VCC feed it
> gets
> 
> Which 555 do you use? Some manufacturers make 555
> with some different
> functions than original!
> 
> > from the transistors. It resets fine with the
> circuit
> > given but it can't be set again unless i manually
> move
> > the wire from Reset to VCC. Of course, i've
> measured
> > the collector tied to Reset, and it is approx.
> 8.8V
> > which should be more than fine as i understand it.
> > 
> > I just thought there might be some "magic" as with
> the
> > noise source that i had to tie to -9 instead of
> GND.
> > Btw, could someone explain that a little closer?
> JH
> > mentioned the reverse breakdown voltage or "zener"
> > voltage, BE, but that is stated to be 6V for a
> > BC547...  ??
> 
> No it does not have nothing with "zener" voltage, it
> is more like avalanche
> principle.
> 
> You could select transistors to get noise from <9V
> voltage, I was make
> little portable battery powered synth for my childs,
> that runs noise from
> cca 7V (under this voltage noise generator does not
> work). I use some >20yrs
> old czech Si transistor.
> 
> Regards, JL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Jan 27 15:44:24 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:44:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
Message-ID: <200601271544.k0RFiOp13149@linux7>

music.maker at gte.net wrote:
>If the large resistors are a problem, the CMOS version (7555) might help. 
>The datasheet I have says "Extremely low input currents of 20pA".  It also
>claims a PS voltage of 18V (abs. max.).  However, since these are series
>pots, just reducing their value by turning them "down" should cause the
>circuit to work at some point - if that's what the problem is.  I can't see
>anything about the circuit that would prevent it from working at 9 volts and
>I don't see a reason that you even need a negative supply at all (You mention
>a +/- 9V supply, are you connecting the -9V as the circuit's ground?  That
>could be a problem).  I'd bet the circuit should work from a single +5V >supply.

Well, except for the opamp part, that needs a dual supply, but still, pin 1 of
the 555 should be connected to zero volts (ground) and not -V.  I don't know
that you're doing that, but just in case...  It really sounds like something is
miswired.  In this schematic, watch the crossovers versus dots where dots mean
to connect and no dot means jump over.

>
>
>=?us-ascii?Q?Jaroslav_Lukes?= <lsh.synth at seznam.cz> wrote:
>>> From: Karl Ekdahl [mailto:elektrodwarf at yahoo.se]
>>> Hi Jaroslav, i've tried changing the 4.7k to Reset
>>> since it seems the VCC feed was to low, but without
>>
>>Not that,I was think about resistors with Mohm values (A/D/S/R).
>>
>>> any luck. The 555's i tried are CA555CE from Harris
>>> and RCA, and also a NE555N from ST. Earlier i also
>>> tried NE556A from ST. I can't verify wheter this
>>> circuit does actually run from a +-15 since i don't
>>> have anything but a +-9V supply here (i've moved
>>> recently).
>>
>>Hmmm. I think that you use all versions that are less or more different from
>>original. Use 555 from philips or TI. In my country before many years was
>>published list of differences between mfgr's for 555, but I could not find
>>it now. I was remember Philips and TI only that are good.
>>
>>Regards, JL.
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
>- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
>- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
>- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.
>
>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.


From lsh.synth at seznam.cz  Fri Jan 27 15:55:44 2006
From: lsh.synth at seznam.cz (=?us-ascii?Q?Jaroslav_Lukes?=)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:55:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
In-Reply-To: <20060127144413.84831.qmail@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060127145554.C7BA0194096@smtp.etmail.cz>

> From: Karl Ekdahl [mailto:elektrodwarf at yahoo.se]
> Hi Jaroslav, i've tried changing the 4.7k to Reset
> since it seems the VCC feed was to low, but without

Not that,I was think about resistors with Mohm values (A/D/S/R).

> any luck. The 555's i tried are CA555CE from Harris
> and RCA, and also a NE555N from ST. Earlier i also
> tried NE556A from ST. I can't verify wheter this
> circuit does actually run from a +-15 since i don't
> have anything but a +-9V supply here (i've moved
> recently).

Hmmm. I think that you use all versions that are less or more different from
original. Use 555 from philips or TI. In my country before many years was
published list of differences between mfgr's for 555, but I could not find
it now. I was remember Philips and TI only that are good.

Regards, JL.


From clark at andrews.edu  Fri Jan 27 15:55:50 2006
From: clark at andrews.edu (clark at andrews.edu)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:55:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: FW: [sdiy] =?iso-8859-1?Q?=B112V_from_+12V_Linear.?=
In-Reply-To: <43D93E3C.AF604375@prodigy.net>
References: <BFFE84AF.524D%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
    <43D93E3C.AF604375@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <39832.143.207.1.42.1138373750.squirrel@secure.andrews.edu>

>> > Have got a N.O.S 12V 1.7 Amp +12V linear open-frame PSU made by
>> Bulgin. I
>> > was wondering if it would be possible to modify it to give ?12V?

   Sorry to jump in so late in the thread...

   If you don't need a lot of current, then I would suggest using an
ICL7660S.  It's a single chip inverter (basically charges a cap and
then switches it to create a negative supply).  There are two grades,
the normal 7660 which is useful for generating -5V, and the 7660S which
will allow for -12V.  Again, won't net you much, and the noise on the
line is horrible, but it works for small load devices.

   Cheers,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk  Fri Jan 27 17:15:49 2006
From: peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk (Pete Swarbrick)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:15:49 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
References: <200601271544.k0RFiOp13149@linux7>
Message-ID: <000601c6235c$f016b060$880698cc@greenford.panavision.co.uk>

Hi All
Well I happened to have one of these circuits on a bit of veroboard in my 
desk here at work  which is using  the ST NE555N and a TL081.
I can get it to work down to +/- 4V or so with no probs. Your problem does 
sound like a wiring thing to me too.
Just thought you'd like to know....
Best of luck
Pete
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Gravenhorst" <music.maker at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: RE: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v


> music.maker at gte.net wrote:
>>If the large resistors are a problem, the CMOS version (7555) might help.
>>The datasheet I have says "Extremely low input currents of 20pA".  It also
>>claims a PS voltage of 18V (abs. max.).  However, since these are series
>>pots, just reducing their value by turning them "down" should cause the
>>circuit to work at some point - if that's what the problem is.  I can't 
>>see
>>anything about the circuit that would prevent it from working at 9 volts 
>>and
>>I don't see a reason that you even need a negative supply at all (You 
>>mention
>>a +/- 9V supply, are you connecting the -9V as the circuit's ground?  That
>>could be a problem).  I'd bet the circuit should work from a single +5V 
>> >supply.
>
> Well, except for the opamp part, that needs a dual supply, but still, pin 
> 1 of
> the 555 should be connected to zero volts (ground) and not -V.  I don't 
> know
> that you're doing that, but just in case...  It really sounds like 
> something is
> miswired.  In this schematic, watch the crossovers versus dots where dots 
> mean
> to connect and no dot means jump over.
>
>>
>>
>>=?us-ascii?Q?Jaroslav_Lukes?= <lsh.synth at seznam.cz> wrote:
>>>> From: Karl Ekdahl [mailto:elektrodwarf at yahoo.se]
>>>> Hi Jaroslav, i've tried changing the 4.7k to Reset
>>>> since it seems the VCC feed was to low, but without
>>>
>>>Not that,I was think about resistors with Mohm values (A/D/S/R).
>>>
>>>> any luck. The 555's i tried are CA555CE from Harris
>>>> and RCA, and also a NE555N from ST. Earlier i also
>>>> tried NE556A from ST. I can't verify wheter this
>>>> circuit does actually run from a +-15 since i don't
>>>> have anything but a +-9V supply here (i've moved
>>>> recently).
>>>
>>>Hmmm. I think that you use all versions that are less or more different 
>>>from
>>>original. Use 555 from philips or TI. In my country before many years was
>>>published list of differences between mfgr's for 555, but I could not 
>>>find
>>>it now. I was remember Philips and TI only that are good.
>>>
>>>Regards, JL.
>>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
>>- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
>>- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
>>- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
>>- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
>>- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.
>>
>>-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
>>-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
>>-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>>-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>>-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> - Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
> - Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
> - What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
> - The media's credibility should always be questioned.
> - The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
> - Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
> -- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> -- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.
>
> 


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From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 27 17:31:16 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:31:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
In-Reply-To: <20060127082553.41762194074@smtp.etmail.cz>
References: <20060126232035.50438.qmail@web26213.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
 <20060127082553.41762194074@smtp.etmail.cz>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060127092958.0341c340@mail.earthlink.net>

At 01:25 AM 1/27/06, =?iso-8859-2?Q?Jaroslav_Luke=B9?= wrote:

>No it does not have nothing with "zener" voltage, it is more like avalanche
>principle.


Ummm ... isn't the zener effect an avalance breakdown? 


From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Fri Jan 27 18:14:02 2006
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:14:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] using a CA3080 and a 2SC3622 instead of a LM13700
References: <1820a14d0601261123y65353492q6c7802c8f1be01e5@mail.gmail.com> <20060126195308.GJ47723@moo.sysabend.org> <018201c622c6$fbf4a0e0$9055f442@positronium> <43D97078.6DECFAB7@prodigy.net> <018901c622e2$864a7e20$9055f442@positronium> <019801c62307$16855d60$9055f442@positronium> <000601c6230d$34e27080$9055f442@positronium> <20060127074525.GL47723@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <001f01c62365$13b95560$9055f442@positronium>

> Just gonna point out that LM13700's are still made by not less then 2
> companies so you might want to consider saving the 3080's for places where
> you need them specifically and just using 13700's where you need the
> buffer...

Actually the circuit I am using calls for 3080's, but they're using 2N5087's 
& 2N5088's as a buffer like on the CA3094. I like the particular 3080's I am 
going to use. They came from an old Videocipher II - they have painted red 
dots on them which I think maybe means they're matched or just selected. I 
thought about the 2SC3622's since I pulled them from a high-end Sony 
CD-player.

I like the idea of using what I have to hand. I'm always looking at all of 
the parts I'm collected overe the years and think 'surely I can make 
something cool with all of this.' And I do.

I was curious too see if there would be an advantage to using only one 
transistor with a huge gain instead of two in a darlington. The 2SC3622L has 
a gain from 1000 to 2000. 



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 27 18:42:25 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:42:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20060127092910.021c6100@pop.west.cox.net>
References: <20060127082553.41762194074@smtp.etmail.cz>
 <20060126232035.50438.qmail@web26213.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
 <20060127082553.41762194074@smtp.etmail.cz>
 <5.2.1.1.2.20060127092910.021c6100@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060127103013.03418740@mail.earthlink.net>

Ah, that's right.  The higher voltage "zener" diodes work by avalanche 
breakdown, but the zener effect is field-induced tunneling between the 
valence and conduction bands.

   Ian


At 10:30 AM 1/27/06, James Patchell wrote:
>It has been a while since I took my solid state physics class...but I am 
>pretty sure there is a difference between Zener and Avalanche 
>....although...the results are pretty much the same...


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri Jan 27 19:10:27 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:10:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip digital delay
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601271509290.27283@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <43D6155F.4000302@burnit.co.uk> <20060124121541.GC1841@vulcain.knox.com> <6efc8fd20601241154t7d414c04j2e4c2cfc3f3eccac@mail.gmail.com> <00cd01c62298$00d65e20$9055f442@positronium> <43D90AB6.2030507@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601262032080.5237@vipunen.hut.fi> <43D97496.50703@burnit.co.uk> <Pine.GSO.4.61.0601271509290.27283@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <43DA6213.7000600@burnit.co.uk>

Antti Huovilainen wrote:

>
> Yes. Cheaper and less trouble than separate ADC & DAC. There is some 
> quality cost but it's unlikely you could get true 100 dB SNR without 
> prior mixed signal experience anyway.
>
This makes a lot of sense.  Previously I had always thought of a CODEC 
in the computer software sense (e.g. mp3 CODEC), but now I  know the 
name in the ADC/DAC sense...

So far I'm looking at Analog Devices, Texas Instruments and Wolfson.  Do 
you know other companies who might make suitable CODEC ICs?

>
> The main issue here is interfacing. You REALLY want constant reliable 
> timing.dsPIC's codec interface would handle that automatically.

I understand .. basically it would be a pain to get the SPI/I2S data 
sent exactly at the right times by the assembly language code in a 
normal PIC, but with a dsPIC you do something like writing the data to a 
buffer area and the hardware clocks it out for you?

>
> That depends on whether it has internal oversampling or not. 
> Preferably you'd want both ADC & DAC to have internal oversampling. 
> Manual oversampling (2-4x) is also possible, but you pretty much need 
> dsPIC or other dsp for that.
>
>
> You downsample the input and upsample the output. In practise this 
> means zero-stuffing and FIR filtering = lots of multiplications = DSP.
> Or you can just get a codec that does it automatically.
>
Ok, I think I'm understanding it now .. the ADC will run at e.g. 768kHz, 
then this will be reduced down to 48kHz by something like averaging.  
Conversely the 48kHz points will be interpolated up to 768kHz for the 
DAC.  I guess this results in more accurate sampling on the way in, and 
on the way out the digital noise frequency will be way higher than audio 
so it will be filtered out more easily and with less distortion of the 
signal from the filters.

I'd imagine it's pretty much a bad idea to try and do this kind of down 
and up sampling in software .. so I am looking for a CODEC chip that 
will do it all for me.

It still might be a 3 chip circuit (apart from any opamp buffers) .. and 
since it's looking like I won't be able to avoid SMD I reckon I might 
make a 4 (rather than 2) channel delay ...

4 in / 4 out CODEC
dsPIC
32kbyte SRAM (should give me up to 85ms per channel and 16bit/48kHz)

Thanks for your help,
Seb



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Fri Jan 27 20:31:39 2006
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:31:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
In-Reply-To: <20060126232035.50438.qmail@web26213.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060126232035.50438.qmail@web26213.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43DA751B.40003@uni-bonn.de>

Hi Karl and all,

Karl Ekdahl wrote:
> Hi all, i'm currently trying my luck adopting another
> Ren? Schmitz design to 9v. The 555-based adsr2;
> http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/adsr2.png
> 
> I don't get the ADSR to work, it seems like the
> reset-pin doesn't like the non-reset VCC feed it gets
> from the transistors. It resets fine with the circuit
> given but it can't be set again unless i manually move
> the wire from Reset to VCC. Of course, i've measured
> the collector tied to Reset, and it is approx. 8.8V
> which should be more than fine as i understand it.

I suspect a wireing error, or a dead component. (hey that covers 99% of 
all problems...)
The entire part with the transistors and the 555s should be powered by 
+Ub and GND, the negative supply is only used for the OP. (And if you'd 
use a single supply type there, it could be also operated from Ub to GND.)

I've used this circuit quite a lot, infact it's my favourite ADSR 
circuit. I used different kinds of both bipolar and CMOS 555s (Philips, 
ST, Grizo-noname-brand...). They all worked. Never tried with 9V, but I 
don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

Normally the RESET should be *LOW*, when the Gate is also low (or 
unconnected). And High, when the Gate is activated.
So maybe just one of your input transistor is bust. The reason why the 
pot-resistor-diode combination also connects to that pin, is that in the 
release-phase, where the second transistor would be turned on, this 
transistor also discharges the timing cap.

> I just thought there might be some "magic" as with the
> noise source that i had to tie to -9 instead of GND.
> Btw, could someone explain that a little closer? JH
> mentioned the reverse breakdown voltage or "zener"
> voltage, BE, but that is stated to be 6V for a
> BC547...  ??

The only place where the base might be more negative than the emitter 
would be at the input. But then there is a diode protecting it from ever 
becoming more than -0.7V.

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri Jan 27 21:52:13 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:52:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SMD packages & adapters
Message-ID: <43DA87FD.500@burnit.co.uk>

Well, I seem to have no choice but to step into the world of SMD devices 
for this digital delay project.  Suitable audio CODEC ICs simply aren't 
available in through the hole packages.

So I'm hoping someone can give me some pointers as to what SMD packages 
are fairly easily soldered by hand (I've got just an ordinary 
temperature controlled soldering iron with the smallest tip being about 
1mm across - although I guess I could file down the tip smaller).

Also, I'd like to build the whole circuit on solderless breadboard 
first, and finally onto 0.1" pitch stripboard, so I will need adapters 
for the SMD devices.  I know this has been mentioned before, but at the 
time I didn't take much noticed (thought I'd be safe from SMD for a 
while!)  Preferably I'm looking for a UK based supplier.

Thank you,
Seb



From lsh.synth at seznam.cz  Fri Jan 27 22:04:20 2006
From: lsh.synth at seznam.cz (=?us-ascii?Q?Jaroslav_Lukes?=)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:04:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SMD packages & adapters
In-Reply-To: <43DA87FD.500@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20060127210446.96AC619404E@smtp.etmail.cz>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:owner-synth-
> Well, I seem to have no choice but to step into the world of SMD devices
> for this digital delay project.  Suitable audio CODEC ICs simply aren't
> available in through the hole packages.
> 
> So I'm hoping someone can give me some pointers as to what SMD packages
> are fairly easily soldered by hand (I've got just an ordinary
> temperature controlled soldering iron with the smallest tip being about
> 1mm across - although I guess I could file down the tip smaller).
> 
> Also, I'd like to build the whole circuit on solderless breadboard
> first, and finally onto 0.1" pitch stripboard, so I will need adapters
> for the SMD devices.  I know this has been mentioned before, but at the
> time I didn't take much noticed (thought I'd be safe from SMD for a
> while!)  Preferably I'm looking for a UK based supplier.

Hi,

Here are contact for adapters in attachment:

Zdenek Novotny - vyvoj HW

ASIX s.r.o.
Staropramenna 4
15000 Praha 5 - Smichov
-----------------------
tel.: +420 257 312 378
fax.: +420 257 329 116
ICQ : 328639127
-----------------------
web cz: http://asix.cz
web en: http://pic-tools.com
e-mail: novotny at asix.cz


Regards, JL.
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From rob at emulatorarchive.com  Fri Jan 27 22:24:02 2006
From: rob at emulatorarchive.com (Rob Keeble)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:24:02 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] SMD packages & adapters
In-Reply-To: <43DA87FD.500@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <JJEIIOABBJMPAPBIBEHNMELBLMAA.rob@emulatorarchive.com>

Hi
SMD is increasingly attractive for Synth DIY (component variety, high
density PCB's). Its where the market is going, so we need to get real.
SOIC/DIP adapters are rather expensive in the UK, so I get mine at 2.39
dollars from these guys in the USA:

http://cimarrontechnology.com/index.asp

They take Paypal, and the parts arrive within a few days. Very nice.

In terms of soldering I use the same gear I have for thru' hole...like 3mm
tip. However a 1mm tip is better as it will heat the joint and then cool
quickly. I must get one... heres a guide on SMD soldering...

http://www.twyman.org.uk/PCB-Techniques/index-frame.htm

If you are laying out PCB's then extend the standard SMD pads so you can do
manual soldering. I am seriously considering moving to SMD for all my IC's.

Hope this helps....its not scary at all.

regards Rob
www.emulatorarchive.com


Well, I seem to have no choice but to step into the world of SMD devices
for this digital delay project.  Suitable audio CODEC ICs simply aren't
available in through the hole packages.

So I'm hoping someone can give me some pointers as to what SMD packages
are fairly easily soldered by hand (I've got just an ordinary
temperature controlled soldering iron with the smallest tip being about
1mm across - although I guess I could file down the tip smaller).

Also, I'd like to build the whole circuit on solderless breadboard
first, and finally onto 0.1" pitch stripboard, so I will need adapters
for the SMD devices.  I know this has been mentioned before, but at the
time I didn't take much noticed (thought I'd be safe from SMD for a
while!)  Preferably I'm looking for a UK based supplier.

Thank you,
Seb








From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Sat Jan 28 01:02:47 2006
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 01:02:47 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
In-Reply-To: <43DA751B.40003@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <20060128000247.38654.qmail@web26204.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Maybe i'm really confused, i've rewired the circuit 3
times on a breadboard and my conclusion is this: the
circuit triggers fine applying a +9v trig at the
junction of the 10n and 10k, though while trying to
trig it from the "actual" trigger it works spordically
every now and then. As i understand it, after
fiddeling a little, the 10n cap gets a charge from the
trig that it doesn't allways gets rid of before the
next trig thus not retriggering. My current setup is
that the 555 is configured in monostable operation as
examplified in the datasheet, thus Reset is allways
tied to VCC. I have, of course, tried the whole ADSR
setup but minimized it to this to be able to locate
the error. All components have been checked (except
the caps since i don't have a supply for my cap meter
right now) and should be working fine, transistors
used are BC547B.

Karl


--- Ren? Schmitz <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de> skrev:

> Hi Karl and all,
> 
> Karl Ekdahl wrote:
> > Hi all, i'm currently trying my luck adopting
> another
> > Ren? Schmitz design to 9v. The 555-based adsr2;
> > http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/adsr2.png
> > 
> > I don't get the ADSR to work, it seems like the
> > reset-pin doesn't like the non-reset VCC feed it
> gets
> > from the transistors. It resets fine with the
> circuit
> > given but it can't be set again unless i manually
> move
> > the wire from Reset to VCC. Of course, i've
> measured
> > the collector tied to Reset, and it is approx.
> 8.8V
> > which should be more than fine as i understand it.
> 
> I suspect a wireing error, or a dead component. (hey
> that covers 99% of 
> all problems...)
> The entire part with the transistors and the 555s
> should be powered by 
> +Ub and GND, the negative supply is only used for
> the OP. (And if you'd 
> use a single supply type there, it could be also
> operated from Ub to GND.)
> 
> I've used this circuit quite a lot, infact it's my
> favourite ADSR 
> circuit. I used different kinds of both bipolar and
> CMOS 555s (Philips, 
> ST, Grizo-noname-brand...). They all worked. Never
> tried with 9V, but I 
> don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.
> 
> Normally the RESET should be *LOW*, when the Gate is
> also low (or 
> unconnected). And High, when the Gate is activated.
> So maybe just one of your input transistor is bust.
> The reason why the 
> pot-resistor-diode combination also connects to that
> pin, is that in the 
> release-phase, where the second transistor would be
> turned on, this 
> transistor also discharges the timing cap.
> 
> > I just thought there might be some "magic" as with
> the
> > noise source that i had to tie to -9 instead of
> GND.
> > Btw, could someone explain that a little closer?
> JH
> > mentioned the reverse breakdown voltage or "zener"
> > voltage, BE, but that is stated to be 6V for a
> > BC547...  ??
> 
> The only place where the base might be more negative
> than the emitter 
> would be at the input. But then there is a diode
> protecting it from ever 
> becoming more than -0.7V.
> 
> Cheers,
>   Ren?
> 
> -- 
> uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
> http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
> 
> 
> 


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Sat Jan 28 03:23:26 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:23:26 -0500
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
References: <20060128000247.38654.qmail@web26204.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43DAD59E.9A00A63C@prodigy.net>

now we're getting somewhere.

The 10n / 10K between the second and third transistors ???

When the second transistor (Q2) conducts, the base of transistor
three (Q3)should go low almost immediatly. Q2 might be trying
to dump the 2.2uF cap through the 220 ohm resistor at the same time...
so it might be slow if it is not slammed on.

One change I'd try for 9V is make the collector resistors like 2.2K
instead of 4.7K... and possible make the 22K base resistor in Q2 10K
instead of 22K. This will increase the base drive to Q2 and Q3

I'd also try adding a 100K (or higher) resistor at the 10n / 10K
junction to ground, to be sure that Q3 eventually turns off.

What kind of capacitor is the 10n ??? It should be something fairly
decent like a mylar, imho.  A good ceramic would probably work but
a crappy one might be trouble...

H^) harry



Karl Ekdahl wrote:
> 
> Maybe i'm really confused, i've rewired the circuit 3
> times on a breadboard and my conclusion is this: the
> circuit triggers fine applying a +9v trig at the
> junction of the 10n and 10k, though while trying to
> trig it from the "actual" trigger it works spordically
> every now and then. As i understand it, after
> fiddeling a little, the 10n cap gets a charge from the
> trig that it doesn't allways gets rid of before the
> next trig thus not retriggering. My current setup is
> that the 555 is configured in monostable operation as
> examplified in the datasheet, thus Reset is allways
> tied to VCC. I have, of course, tried the whole ADSR
> setup but minimized it to this to be able to locate
> the error. All components have been checked (except
> the caps since i don't have a supply for my cap meter
> right now) and should be working fine, transistors
> used are BC547B.
> 
> Karl
> 
> --- Ren? Schmitz <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de> skrev:
> 
> > Hi Karl and all,
> >
> > Karl Ekdahl wrote:
> > > Hi all, i'm currently trying my luck adopting
> > another
> > > Ren? Schmitz design to 9v. The 555-based adsr2;
> > > http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/adsr2.png
> > >
> > > I don't get the ADSR to work, it seems like the
> > > reset-pin doesn't like the non-reset VCC feed it
> > gets
> > > from the transistors. It resets fine with the
> > circuit
> > > given but it can't be set again unless i manually
> > move
> > > the wire from Reset to VCC. Of course, i've
> > measured
> > > the collector tied to Reset, and it is approx.
> > 8.8V
> > > which should be more than fine as i understand it.
> >
> > I suspect a wireing error, or a dead component. (hey
> > that covers 99% of
> > all problems...)
> > The entire part with the transistors and the 555s
> > should be powered by
> > +Ub and GND, the negative supply is only used for
> > the OP. (And if you'd
> > use a single supply type there, it could be also
> > operated from Ub to GND.)
> >
> > I've used this circuit quite a lot, infact it's my
> > favourite ADSR
> > circuit. I used different kinds of both bipolar and
> > CMOS 555s (Philips,
> > ST, Grizo-noname-brand...). They all worked. Never
> > tried with 9V, but I
> > don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.
> >
> > Normally the RESET should be *LOW*, when the Gate is
> > also low (or
> > unconnected). And High, when the Gate is activated.
> > So maybe just one of your input transistor is bust.
> > The reason why the
> > pot-resistor-diode combination also connects to that
> > pin, is that in the
> > release-phase, where the second transistor would be
> > turned on, this
> > transistor also discharges the timing cap.
> >
> > > I just thought there might be some "magic" as with
> > the
> > > noise source that i had to tie to -9 instead of
> > GND.
> > > Btw, could someone explain that a little closer?
> > JH
> > > mentioned the reverse breakdown voltage or "zener"
> > > voltage, BE, but that is stated to be 6V for a
> > > BC547...  ??
> >
> > The only place where the base might be more negative
> > than the emitter
> > would be at the input. But then there is a diode
> > protecting it from ever
> > becoming more than -0.7V.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   Ren?
> >
> > --
> > uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
> > http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
> >
> >
> >


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan 28 04:00:14 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 03:00:14 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Stereo Audio CODEC ICs
Message-ID: <43DADE3E.7000704@burnit.co.uk>

For anyone who's following this digital delay thread and is interested 
in some nice quality audio CODEC ICs, here are the ones I've shortlisted 
so far:

www.cirrus.com
CS4272 (24-Bit, 192 kHz, 114 dB Stereo CODEC with differential I/O and 
internal oscillator) SSOP-28

www.wolfsonmicro.com
WM8778 (24-bit, 192kHz Stereo Codec) SSOP-28
WM8590 (24-bit, 192kHz Stereo Codec with differential I/O) SSOP-28

www.ti.com
PCM3010 (24-bit, 96kHz ADC, 192kHz DAC Stereo Codec) SSOP-24
TLC320AD77 (24-bit, 96kHz Stereo Codec) SSOP-28

These are all 2 in, 2 out.  I was hoping to get something with 4 in, 4 
out, but this doesn't exist (you tend to get much more outs), and in any 
case I'm not brave enough to go any deeper into SMD than SO or SSOP 
packages at the moment!

Seb



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan 28 13:02:48 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:02:48 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Stereo Audio CODEC ICs
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060128104630.0301ec18@pop.xs4all.nl>
References: <43DADE3E.7000704@burnit.co.uk> <6.1.2.0.0.20060128104630.0301ec18@pop.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <43DB5D68.4060701@burnit.co.uk>

Simon Brouwer wrote:

> At 04:00 28-1-2006, Seb Francis wrote:
>
>> For anyone who's following this digital delay thread and is 
>> interested in some nice quality audio CODEC ICs, here are the ones 
>> I've shortlisted so far:
>>
>> www.cirrus.com
>> CS4272 (24-Bit, 192 kHz, 114 dB Stereo CODEC with differential I/O 
>> and internal oscillator) SSOP-28
>>
>> www.wolfsonmicro.com
>> WM8778 (24-bit, 192kHz Stereo Codec) SSOP-28
>> WM8590 (24-bit, 192kHz Stereo Codec with differential I/O) SSOP-28
>>
>> www.ti.com
>> PCM3010 (24-bit, 96kHz ADC, 192kHz DAC Stereo Codec) SSOP-24
>> TLC320AD77 (24-bit, 96kHz Stereo Codec) SSOP-28
>>
>> These are all 2 in, 2 out.  I was hoping to get something with 4 in, 
>> 4 out, but this doesn't exist (you tend to get much more outs), and 
>> in any case I'm not brave enough to go any deeper into SMD than SO or 
>> SSOP packages at the moment!
>
>
> Where could these be ordered by individuals, in small quantities? 
> Farnell doesn't seem to stock any comparable audio CODECs.
>
>

Farnell stocks:
CS4272 (p/n 1023371) at ?5.07+VAT
PCM3010 (p/n 8434794) at ?4.74+VAT

Profusion (www.profusion.co.uk) stock:
WM8778 at ?5.64+VAT
WM8590 at ?3.49+VAT

Seb



From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat Jan 28 14:37:37 2006
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:37:37 +0100
Subject: SV: Re: [sdiy] 555-based ADSR that refuses to work with 9v
In-Reply-To: <20060128000247.38654.qmail@web26204.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060128000247.38654.qmail@web26204.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43DB73A1.8070003@uni-bonn.de>

Hi Karl and all,

Karl Ekdahl wrote:
> Maybe i'm really confused, i've rewired the circuit 3
> times on a breadboard and my conclusion is this: the
> circuit triggers fine applying a +9v trig at the
> junction of the 10n and 10k, though while trying to
> trig it from the "actual" trigger it works spordically
> every now and then. As i understand it, after
> fiddeling a little, the 10n cap gets a charge from the
> trig that it doesn't allways gets rid of before the
> next trig thus not retriggering. 

Try a diode at the base of the third transistor, configured like the 
protection diode at the input. Maybe there is really an action from the 
reverse breakdown, helping to get rid of the charge. Which wouldn't be 
effective with a lower operating voltage.

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159



From scottnoanh at peoplepc.com  Sat Jan 28 16:10:49 2006
From: scottnoanh at peoplepc.com (scottnoanh at peoplepc.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:10:49 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Small Bear Now Selling THAT VCAs
Message-ID: <000b01c6241d$09096520$b506f504@default>

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Updates.htm


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 19:34:25 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:34:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601281034j51cf8efeh60d2a0286b580a7d@mail.gmail.com>

has been posted to my Design section in my webpage. :)

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/design.html

As far as I can figure with my developing the idea at work last night,
it should work without any troubles, in giving a sequence a more
'human feel'.  ;)  Please do let me know, if there're any problems
WITH the idea! :O :)  I've wanted a function like this in modular
sequencers, for many MANY years.  I don't know whether it's been done
or not by anyone else, but I haven't seen this function anywhere at
any diy sites, that I could borrow the functionality from. :(

I'm interested in any input.  :)  Constructive criticism / etc. :)
Thanks for any potential input, from the many of y'all out there,
who've far greater amounts of experience than I. :O :O :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2806 update


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 20:11:05 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:11:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <F742C3F2-9701-4616-A5F0-20B9D295BF07@earthlink.net>
References: <b6b288a70601281034j51cf8efeh60d2a0286b580a7d@mail.gmail.com>
	 <F742C3F2-9701-4616-A5F0-20B9D295BF07@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601281111l6802fad8o9b178b7046cecf9c@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/28/06, xamboldt <xamboldt at earthlink.net> wrote:
> One issue I see is that you don't allow for the "humanity" to include
> timing events a little early.
> But that would complicate things quite a bit, I think.
> I had a similar idea a while ago, but when I started thinking about
> the early timing issue, this module got pushed way to the back of my
> list of things to try.
>
> -Chris

Hey Chris. :)

Aye.  That thought came up as well.  My first thought on it, was
setting the Decay control for 'no movement' to 0, with a +/- action to
it.  But that would entail coming up with logic around the zero point,
to keep it 'centered' in the timing for each step. :(  I didn't like
that portion of it for the simplicity of things.
Thinking on it further - say I wanted to do a grace note BEFORE the
1st step in a sequence, I could set the last step that way, to super
delay it, before it happens.  That could have it working as an 'intro
grace' to the 1st hit of the following cycle.  (Repeat the idea
through the entire sequence, for the idea.)  I was happy with that
possibility in it. :)

Another possible way, could be to delay the entire timing for the
sequence by one step.  (Inversion of the clock, if I'm not mistaken. 
If not - then a double inversion - each of the idea, through a
flipflop.)  That could take care of it, no?


--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2706 update


From richard at skydancer.com  Sat Jan 28 20:37:24 2006
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 19:37:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601281034j51cf8efeh60d2a0286b580a7d@mail.gmail.co
 m>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>

At 18:34 28/01/2006, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
>has been posted to my Design section in my webpage. :)
>
>http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/design.html
>
>As far as I can figure with my developing the idea at work last night,
>it should work without any troubles, in giving a sequence a more
>'human feel'.  ;)  Please do let me know, if there're any problems
>WITH the idea! :O :)  I've wanted a function like this in modular
>sequencers, for many MANY years.  I don't know whether it's been done
>or not by anyone else, but I haven't seen this function anywhere at
>any diy sites, that I could borrow the functionality from. :(

That seems like a rather complicated way to solve the problem.

It might be easier to replace the clock with a VCLFO and add a little 
random noise variation into the control voltage.

The VCLFO doesn't need to be a super-accurate precision design. Just 
something that has a range of a couple of octaves or so.

Noise -> S&H smoothed by lag -> VCLFO (with manual CV in controlling the 
master rate) -> clock in.

But for what it's worth randomness doesn't usually sound all that 
interesting, or musical. It would probably be more useful, but quite a bit 
more complicated, to add a +/- timing pot for each step, so you could have 
very fine control over the feel and could potentially match it with the 
groove in a loop.

Richard


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 20:52:28 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:52:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601281152r3a9c7eadk742c6ee220e96695@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/28/06, Richard Wentk <richard at skydancer.com> wrote:
>
> That seems like a rather complicated way to solve the problem.
>
> It might be easier to replace the clock with a VCLFO and add a little
> random noise variation into the control voltage.
>
> The VCLFO doesn't need to be a super-accurate precision design. Just
> something that has a range of a couple of octaves or so.
>
> Noise -> S&H smoothed by lag -> VCLFO (with manual CV in controlling the
> master rate) -> clock in.
>
> But for what it's worth randomness doesn't usually sound all that
> interesting, or musical. It would probably be more useful, but quite a bit
> more complicated, to add a +/- timing pot for each step, so you could have
> very fine control over the feel and could potentially match it with the
> groove in a loop.
>
> Richard

That was one of the earlier methods that I'd thought of through the
idea's development.  Essentially having a Master Clock (1V/Oct)
controlling the pitch of 3 VCOs/LFOs that would be controlling the
speed of 3 sequencers.

The trouble that came up here though, through the development - if I
change the speed of one of the sequences that way - it's going to be
altered by 'x amount of speed', throwing it that much out of sync. :( 
I'd then have to counter that, to bring it back inTO sync. :(  I
thought of a couple of ways to try and get around it, but it would be
requiring a fair amount of adjustment, to bring the sequence back into
proper alignment with the main clock. :(

I was quite pleased by the idea originally, until I realized that
error potential.  That idea had come up in a couple of different ways
through the idea's development.

The way that I came to finally - will require a fair bit more stuff to
be built, to be dedicated to it.  In looking at it all though - I
realized that I already DO have all of the modules needed, except for
the multiplexer (built, as a patchable 1 in / 8 out unit), itself.  :)
 That realization further spawned the thought of making the entire
thing patchable.  (Separate patchable delay portions).  Then anything
could strung together with patch cables, as needed. :)


--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2706 update


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan 28 21:24:30 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:24:30 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <43DBD2FE.80401@burnit.co.uk>

Richard Wentk wrote:

>
> But for what it's worth randomness doesn't usually sound all that 
> interesting, or musical. It would probably be more useful, but quite a 
> bit more complicated, to add a +/- timing pot for each step, so you 
> could have very fine control over the feel and could potentially match 
> it with the groove in a loop.
>
IMO, this is a *much* better idea than just adding randomness.  What you 
have then is the ability to set a 'groove' to your sequence.  Personally 
before building any hardware I would first play around in a software 
sequencer and try out what pure randomness sounds like to you, as 
opposed to a groove quantise which is repeating the same timing 
discrepencies for each beat of the bar.

Seb



From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 21:29:49 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:29:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128201233.04b44c60@mail.skydancer.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
	 <5.1.0.14.2.20060128201233.04b44c60@mail.skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601281229m5bb678e1la54d52889a259842@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/28/06, Richard Wentk <richard at skydancer.com> wrote:
> At 19:52 28/01/2006, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
>
> >That was one of the earlier methods that I'd thought of through the
> >idea's development.  Essentially having a Master Clock (1V/Oct)
> >controlling the pitch of 3 VCOs/LFOs that would be controlling the
> >speed of 3 sequencers.
>
> Why not just have the one VCLFO acting as the main clock for all three
> sequencers?
>
> Richard

In one of the original thoughts as how to do it - I'd wanted to have
control over each of the sequencers delays, per step, individually. 
That's where I couldn't figure out how to delay the timing for the
steps in 1 sequencer, without throwing it's entire cycle 'off center',
from the main clock itself.  That, would have to be reset to 'in sync'
with the other sequencers. :(

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2806 update


From jays at aracnet.com  Sat Jan 28 21:40:19 2006
From: jays at aracnet.com (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:40:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Stereo Audio CODEC ICs
In-Reply-To: <43DB5D68.4060701@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGAEHICGAA.jays@aracnet.com>

I did some research into this about 6 years ago. Several things to keep in
mind about using real audio codecs.

A number of the converters whether they be discrete (separate ADC/DAC) or
codecs is that they want to be clocked at a constant rate at certain
frequencies. Some will not work varying the clock rate like you do with a
BBD. Has to do with some of the digital filters and that they sort of use
the clocking to do the conversion. They have internal integrators in these
things that rely on a very accurate clock. Multi-bit converters seem to
sound better to me than single bit. They are not as critical of clocking
either.

The layout of these on a PCB is extremely critical. Read all the app notes
and data sheets on these things. It might be a problem using SMD adapters
with these chips.

I've also found some the app notes and data sheets had the wrong values in
their filters on the DACs. Can't remember if it was Cirrus or AKM I know it
was one of the ones I used so those would be my choices. Might want to do
the math and make sure they are right before you build something.

Also AKM makes converters. I looked at there disti and sales rep list on
their web site. Didn't look good to buy just a few of them.

Jay S.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Seb Francis
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 4:03 AM
To: Simon Brouwer
Cc: Synth DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Stereo Audio CODEC ICs


Simon Brouwer wrote:

> At 04:00 28-1-2006, Seb Francis wrote:
>
>> For anyone who's following this digital delay thread and is
>> interested in some nice quality audio CODEC ICs, here are the ones
>> I've shortlisted so far:
>>
>> www.cirrus.com
>> CS4272 (24-Bit, 192 kHz, 114 dB Stereo CODEC with differential I/O
>> and internal oscillator) SSOP-28
>>
>> www.wolfsonmicro.com
>> WM8778 (24-bit, 192kHz Stereo Codec) SSOP-28
>> WM8590 (24-bit, 192kHz Stereo Codec with differential I/O) SSOP-28
>>
>> www.ti.com
>> PCM3010 (24-bit, 96kHz ADC, 192kHz DAC Stereo Codec) SSOP-24
>> TLC320AD77 (24-bit, 96kHz Stereo Codec) SSOP-28
>>
>> These are all 2 in, 2 out.  I was hoping to get something with 4 in,
>> 4 out, but this doesn't exist (you tend to get much more outs), and
>> in any case I'm not brave enough to go any deeper into SMD than SO or
>> SSOP packages at the moment!
>
>
> Where could these be ordered by individuals, in small quantities?
> Farnell doesn't seem to stock any comparable audio CODECs.
>
>

Farnell stocks:
CS4272 (p/n 1023371) at ?5.07+VAT
PCM3010 (p/n 8434794) at ?4.74+VAT

Profusion (www.profusion.co.uk) stock:
WM8778 at ?5.64+VAT
WM8590 at ?3.49+VAT

Seb




From richard at skydancer.com  Sat Jan 28 21:47:06 2006
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:47:06 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <43DBD2FE.80401@burnit.co.uk>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128204220.049d75f8@mail.skydancer.com>

At 20:24 28/01/2006, Seb Francis wrote:
>Richard Wentk wrote:
>
>>
>>But for what it's worth randomness doesn't usually sound all that 
>>interesting, or musical. It would probably be more useful, but quite a 
>>bit more complicated, to add a +/- timing pot for each step, so you could 
>>have very fine control over the feel and could potentially match it with 
>>the groove in a loop.
>IMO, this is a *much* better idea than just adding randomness.  What you 
>have then is the ability to set a 'groove' to your sequence.  Personally 
>before building any hardware I would first play around in a software 
>sequencer and try out what pure randomness sounds like to you, as opposed 
>to a groove quantise which is repeating the same timing discrepencies for 
>each beat of the bar.

Yep. Random usually just sounds sloppy and wrong.

Groove control is pretty easy to do. Master clock is an ascending saw. Use 
a multiplexed row of pots to drive a comparator. Trigger each step off the 
rising edge. There's a little bit of extra complexity in making sure the 
pitch multiplexer switches at the right point, but nothing too frightening.

You get full ahead/behind the beat variability with a reasonable hardware 
count, and no worries about monostables or other messiness.

Richard


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Jan 28 22:45:00 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 21:45:00 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Stereo Audio CODEC ICs
In-Reply-To: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGAEHICGAA.jays@aracnet.com>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGAEHICGAA.jays@aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <43DBE5DC.5030603@burnit.co.uk>


>A number of the converters whether they be discrete (separate ADC/DAC) or
>codecs is that they want to be clocked at a constant rate at certain
>frequencies. Some will not work varying the clock rate like you do with a
>BBD. Has to do with some of the digital filters and that they sort of use
>the clocking to do the conversion. They have internal integrators in these
>things that rely on a very accurate clock.
>
Yeah, I assumed as much.  Luckily this is what I want for my 
application.  I want to keep the sound quality the same while varying 
the delay time, so I will do this by changing the buffer size in 
software not the clock rate.

>Multi-bit converters seem to
>sound better to me than single bit. They are not as critical of clocking
>either.
>
>  
>
The Cirrus and Wolfson converters are multi-bit.  I'm not sure about the 
TI ones .. it's not clear from the datasheet.

>The layout of these on a PCB is extremely critical. Read all the app notes
>and data sheets on these things. It might be a problem using SMD adapters
>with these chips.
>
>  
>
Hopefully with careful layout and decoupling the SMD adapters won't give 
me problems, but I guess I will find out :)
Actually I plan to build this on stripboard (but I will break every 
stripboard track to the shortest required length so as to minimise stray 
capacitance between tracks).

>I've also found some the app notes and data sheets had the wrong values in
>their filters on the DACs. Can't remember if it was Cirrus or AKM I know it
>was one of the ones I used so those would be my choices. Might want to do
>the math and make sure they are right before you build something.
>  
>
What you do mean the wrong values in the filters?  You mean in the 
example applications?  I think these CODECs all have filters built in, 
so all that is required is external buffers.

>Also AKM makes converters. I looked at there disti and sales rep list on
>their web site. Didn't look good to buy just a few of them.
>
>  
>
Thanks, I'll check them out.   Hopefully I would be able to get some 
samples even if I'm not able to buy small quantities.

Cheers,
Seb



From ijfritz at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 28 23:22:35 2006
From: ijfritz at earthlink.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:22:35 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] AD @ Digi
In-Reply-To: <20051104080232.GK80572@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20051104080232.GK80572@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060128151635.034626a0@mail.earthlink.net>

Hi --

In case anyone missed it, Digikey is now carrying Analog Devices 
chips.  Lots and lots of great devices.  Just some that caught my eye 
include SSM2210 (transistor pair), REF01 and REF02 reference voltages in 
different grades, ADG431 quad switch (used in my tri vco), many 
multiplier/divider devices, etc.

   Ian


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 23:25:03 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:25:03 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128204220.049d75f8@mail.skydancer.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
	 <43DBD2FE.80401@burnit.co.uk>
	 <5.1.0.14.2.20060128204220.049d75f8@mail.skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601281425t38126b74g47a48acb2f38fa9f@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/28/06, Richard Wentk <richard at skydancer.com> wrote:
> Yep. Random usually just sounds sloppy and wrong.

That's what I'd learned in my earliest days of playing with 'feel',
back in the mid 80's.  When you went WAY too far off of the normal
beat, it sound like complete crap / a horrid keyboard player.  It took
me a while, to realize just how subtle, it had to be.  So much so,
that when you're playing it back - you can't really tell.  But when
you A/B it with something that is 100% quantized, the difference is
quite noticeable. :O
I only go as far as 'random sounding' myself, when I'm working on a
Noise / Experimental piece, and there quite often isn't any worry
about a 'solid feel' - more interest in say a 'chaotic freedom'. :)

> Groove control is pretty easy to do. Master clock is an ascending saw. Use
> a multiplexed row of pots to drive a comparator. Trigger each step off the
> rising edge. There's a little bit of extra complexity in making sure the
> pitch multiplexer switches at the right point, but nothing too frightening.
>
> You get full ahead/behind the beat variability with a reasonable hardware
> count, and no worries about monostables or other messiness.
>
> Richard

The trouble here, when I'd thought about running the sequencers from a
VCO / LFO as a clock, came back to having the pot (choosing the point
off of the Saw), 'centered' for no variance in the clock itself.  Say
- if the 1st step was set so that it would trigger earlier than normal
- I'd then have to be careful in returning the pot to the exact
'center' for no variance in timing when that step triggers.

Your mention though, has started my mind in figuring out a way TO do a
pre-trigger where the 'delay' pot itself, has the deadzone.  (At the
beginning of it's turn, as in my idea from last night.)  :)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2706 update


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 23:30:31 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:30:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <43DBD2FE.80401@burnit.co.uk>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
	 <43DBD2FE.80401@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601281430y2dff8bcfs3b6c5642fb4d380c@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/28/06, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
> IMO, this is a *much* better idea than just adding randomness.  What you
> have then is the ability to set a 'groove' to your sequence.  Personally
> before building any hardware I would first play around in a software
> sequencer and try out what pure randomness sounds like to you, as
> opposed to a groove quantise which is repeating the same timing
> discrepencies for each beat of the bar.
>
> Seb

Another part of the idea that you've reminded me of, that I forgot to
mention - is adding IN a 'random' amount addition, to each step.  (Fed
by a noise fed S&H).  Now as per 'normal', the most of this range,
would be from zero up to barely perceptible, with the final little bit
of the knob's range being 'exaggerated'.  But it could help add more
of a 'human feel' to the already manually chosen amount, per step. 
This would add as well as subtract, from the manual settings - thereby
changing the feel ever so SLIGHTLY, on each repetition of the sequence
cycle. :)
(The amount of timing that I'm speaking of here, is in the
milliseconds.  When you're getting as far as a 10th of a second, it
starts sounding like absolutely crappily played material.)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2706 update


From richard at skydancer.com  Sat Jan 28 23:41:07 2006
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 22:41:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <b6b288a70601281425t38126b74g47a48acb2f38fa9f@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128204220.049d75f8@mail.skydancer.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
 <43DBD2FE.80401@burnit.co.uk>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20060128204220.049d75f8@mail.skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128223648.03b38ec8@mail.skydancer.com>

At 22:25 28/01/2006, Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N. wrote:
>The trouble here, when I'd thought about running the sequencers from a
>VCO / LFO as a clock, came back to having the pot (choosing the point
>off of the Saw), 'centered' for no variance in the clock itself.  Say
>- if the 1st step was set so that it would trigger earlier than normal
>- I'd then have to be careful in returning the pot to the exact
>'center' for no variance in timing when that step triggers.

A back-to-back diode dead zone would cure that. With 0.6V either way on a 
+/-12V you could be sloppy about centering without losing much in the way 
of useful groove positioning.

But realistically I doubt you'd hear much variation at - say - 120bpm 8th 
notes anyway, as long as you were in the ballpark.

Richard



From johnspeth at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 29 00:28:36 2006
From: johnspeth at yahoo.com (John Speth)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:28:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Press and Peel circuit boards
In-Reply-To: <f14797730601281505j600e13b9re72620d9a537a0f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060128232836.58704.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>

> I'm about to try laying out some boards using the
> Press N Peel blue film.
> Does anyone have any experinces with this that they
> would like to share that
> might save me alot of trial and error. The first one
> did not come out to
> well. Almost none of the Blue film came off on the
> board. I think this was
> because the ink was not quite dry. So i printed some
> more and i will wait
> till tomorrow and try again. Hopefully the ink will
> be good and dry then.
> Any thoughts or alternatives?

Key things to remember:
1. Copper board must be very clean and shiny prior to
ironing.  Use steel wool.
2. Pressure, temperature, and time of heating are all
variables that must be accurately balanced.  You must
experiment.
3. Older laser printers are known to work better
because they use more toner.
4. If you dno't get good results, clean the board and
try again.  A good "print" will result in a a good
etch.
5. You can always fix your mistakes in toner transfer
with a sharpie pen.

JJS


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From ka4hjh at gte.net  Sun Jan 29 01:29:48 2006
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 19:29:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OT: You engineers listen good
Message-ID: <p05111a00c001bcbcc067@[192.168.1.101]>

Forget all this doom and gloom about lead-free, SMT, out-sourcing, etc.
Here's the REAL future of hi-tech:

<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5125780462773187994&q=rockwell+automation>

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

"There is no Main Street anymore except at Disneyland--and try and buy a
gun there"--Hank Hill


From moogah at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 04:06:57 2006
From: moogah at gmail.com (Jeff Farr)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 22:06:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <43DC2830.5F28CC9A@prodigy.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
	 <43DBD2FE.80401@burnit.co.uk>
	 <b6b288a70601281430y2dff8bcfs3b6c5642fb4d380c@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43DC0920.9020802@burnit.co.uk> <43DC2830.5F28CC9A@prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <78f89520601281906v5588f34bncdf39b1c20a4a3ac@mail.gmail.com>

I'll just drop my .02 into the bucket here, as others have pretty much
already said what I've found from my own experiments.  Random
quantization, although somewhat effective, isn't really worth alot of
effort to achieve.  Much more interesting designs involve being able
to select the amount of "push" or "pull" for each step and set
templates for this.  Also, you need a good resolution in order to make
a real groove, 96ppq won't cut it.  You might be surprised at how
closely a good drummer can nail their timing.  Sure, they're not right
on the 16th note grid, but each drum hit is exactly where they wanted
it.  The best effect for randomness is between successive bars, as it
can be a real task programming an entire song without relying on
static loops.


From johannes.oberg at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 04:55:28 2006
From: johannes.oberg at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Johannes_=D6berg?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 04:55:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] A new sequencer idea - the 'human feel' ......
In-Reply-To: <78f89520601281906v5588f34bncdf39b1c20a4a3ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060128193223.0458c0a8@mail.skydancer.com>
	 <43DBD2FE.80401@burnit.co.uk>
	 <b6b288a70601281430y2dff8bcfs3b6c5642fb4d380c@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43DC0920.9020802@burnit.co.uk> <43DC2830.5F28CC9A@prodigy.net>
	 <78f89520601281906v5588f34bncdf39b1c20a4a3ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <be546e560601281955x4907974if78b6f0af66d1882@mail.gmail.com>

IMHO, the grooviness of random timing is a myth. It only sounds like
an amateur drummer. What you want is random _velocity_. And
preferably, not even random, but controlled 'randomish'. Another good
idea is to have the ability to set "in-between" hits to random mode
(again, velocity, not timing) so that beats on bars are clean.


From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 06:48:19 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 21:48:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Fudging Tempco values
Message-ID: <87441170601282148i631dea7as80b63a9acfe3dbac@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, here's something I'm really not sure of...

Let's say I've got a VCO that calls for a 1.87K tempco, but all I've
got is a 1K. How much is it going to bugger things up if I put a
standard metal film resistor (866 Ohm is a standard 1% value) in
series with the 1K tempco to get as close as possible to 1.87K? I'm
thinking that the overall resistance value is perfect, and partial
compensation is better than none at all, but how close will it get me
to the "ideal?" FWIW, 1% metal films are available in 50ppm and 100ppm
temp coefficients, with 100ppm being more easily available.


Tim (Fudge Factor) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


From ascetik at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 06:57:24 2006
From: ascetik at gmail.com (josh summitt)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 23:57:24 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Press and Peel circuit boards
In-Reply-To: <D2CF003D-7AF3-4BD8-93B6-69BE5F30E3D3@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
References: <f14797730601281505j600e13b9re72620d9a537a0f8@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43DC2732.B6CE6E85@prodigy.net>
	 <f14797730601282051m70be3df5td1510a190248f78c@mail.gmail.com>
	 <328353FD-31B2-4C16-AD27-49926A8D0630@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
	 <f14797730601282141p54533196u4d001272692b8c06@mail.gmail.com>
	 <D2CF003D-7AF3-4BD8-93B6-69BE5F30E3D3@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
Message-ID: <f14797730601282157x4424c8e9p41b59044fddfa79f@mail.gmail.com>

I just bid on one on ebay.... 30 bucks with usb. yea i keep watching that
video over and over again. It's just genius that people have the time to put
something like that together.


On 1/28/06, Colin Raffel <colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com> wrote:
>
> Well, it uses prefabricated superconducting transducer silicon.  (I
> laughed out lout at that video!  That doesn't happen much with stuff
> on the net.)
>
> -Colin
>
> On Jan 29, 2006, at 12:41 AM, josh summitt wrote:
>
> > but is it superior to the Retro Encabulator!
> >
> > On 1/28/06, Colin Raffel <colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com >
> > wrote:Or you can get a supercheap laser printer like mine-a Samsung
> > ML1740.  I think I got this one for $60.  Laser is far superior to
> > Inkjet, even in it's cheapest form IMO.
> >
> > -Colin
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2006, at 11:51 PM, josh summitt wrote:
> >
> > > Thats it, I feel really stupid. i am using an inkjet printer. I had
> > > it in my head that it was a laser printer. But i can just photo
> > > copy it right?I'll try this at th local Kinkos
> > > Thanks All
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > On 1/28/06, harrybissell <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote: ink ???
> > >
> > > this will not work with an inkjet printer... only with a laser
> > > printer or photocopy machine that uses black 'toner'.
> > >
> > > maybe that's what you meant by ink, but I thought i'd
> > > warn you just in case...
> > >
> > > H^) harry
> > >
> > > josh summitt wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm about to try laying out some boards using the Press N Peel
> > blue
> > > > film. Does anyone have any experinces with this that they would
> > like
> > > > to share that might save me alot of trial and error. The first
> > > one did
> > > > not come out to well. Almost none of the Blue film came off on the
> > > > board. I think this was because the ink was not quite dry. So i
> > > > printed some more and i will wait till tomorrow and try again.
> > > > Hopefully the ink will be good and dry then. Any thoughts or
> > > > alternatives?
> > > > Josh
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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From jena_mu_six at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 29 07:42:07 2006
From: jena_mu_six at hotmail.com (Jena Jena)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:42:07 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] restoring a big modular
Message-ID: <BAY109-F40E5CAE36DD18E36632247B5160@phx.gbl>

Hi everybody,

I recently started restoring a big Digisound modular.
It's about 26 Digisound modules an couple of custom ones.
Previously owned by Zip Boterbloem.

If you're interested, you can follow the process(and give some tips) on my 
modulars weblog:

http://boterbloemmodular.blogspot.com/

Greetings,

Jean



From johannes.oberg at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 10:46:47 2006
From: johannes.oberg at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Johannes_=D6berg?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:46:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] THAT vca
In-Reply-To: <b50a5d0a0601290030o516861c5hc65d78e7db3836eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601290030o516861c5hc65d78e7db3836eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <be546e560601290146j51b7e7cle1f4ce6846bf7eb3@mail.gmail.com>

It's a one-chip VCA like the old CEM and SSM chips. Aparently a very
good VCA too. It's made by the THAT corporation.
http://www.thatcorp.com


From johannes.oberg at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 10:53:49 2006
From: johannes.oberg at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Johannes_=D6berg?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:53:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] THAT vca
In-Reply-To: <be546e560601290146j51b7e7cle1f4ce6846bf7eb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b50a5d0a0601290030o516861c5hc65d78e7db3836eb@mail.gmail.com>
	 <be546e560601290146j51b7e7cle1f4ce6846bf7eb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <be546e560601290153g4af6b350qe5e9eb99bf57f59@mail.gmail.com>

...and some (or all?) of the THAT VCA's are pin-compatible with some
old dbx VCA.

/J


From johannes.oberg at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 11:18:59 2006
From: johannes.oberg at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Johannes_=D6berg?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:18:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Complementary transistors and other questions
Message-ID: <be546e560601290218k626738dbu294daa6e6363581@mail.gmail.com>

I'm ordering some stuff from an electronics surplus supplier, and
thought I'd stock up on some cheap parts since I'm already paying for
postage.

Now, I would have ordered some genpurp transistors like bc547 and
bc557, but they don't have "matching numbers". What would be the
drawbacks of using say bc548 together with bc307 ? I'm just assuming
they come in complementary pairs for a reason.

Btw, does a 3:1 ratio of NPN vs PNP seems like a good idea? Most stuff
seems to use alot more NPN's.

Another question is about opamps, can I use LP324 in place of LM324? I
know people say the 324 sucks in many places, but is ok for LFO's and
stuff. The LP324 seems to my untrained eye to be only a better specs /
lower power LM324, but theres probably a catch.

Also, non-matched transistor arrays, are they useful for anything? I'm
thinking they would be "sortof" matched, and thermally coupled. Right?

Does DIL20 have the same distance between the rows as DIL18 ? Or is
the row spacing not standardized?

/J


From johnspeth at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 29 15:16:58 2006
From: johnspeth at yahoo.com (John Speth)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:16:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Press and Peel circuit boards
In-Reply-To: <f14797730601282157x4424c8e9p41b59044fddfa79f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060129141658.32594.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>

> I just bid on one on ebay.... 30 bucks with usb. yea
> i keep watching that
> video over and over again. It's just genius that
> people have the time to put
> something like that together.

Yeah but...

Wait until you need to buy toner for your $30 printer.
 Then you'll see the irony in that statement.

Lesson: Evaluate the cost of ownership when you buy a
laser printer.

JJS


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Jan 29 16:11:42 2006
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:11:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Complementary transistors and other questions
References: <be546e560601290218k626738dbu294daa6e6363581@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c624e6$8a4c1dc0$0200a8c0@jhsilent>

> Another question is about opamps, can I use LP324 in place of LM324? I
> know people say the 324 sucks in many places, but is ok for LFO's and
> stuff. The LP324 seems to my untrained eye to be only a better specs /
> lower power LM324, but theres probably a catch.


Ha ha, I accidentially got a lot of these LP324's when I built my PS3200
clone.

And the PS3200 depends on some of the LM324's features, like - don't
laugh! -
a certain amount of *speed*.

Yes, the LP324 is much slower than the LM324. Had to desolder a lof of them
from very cramped pcbs.

JH.


From debus at cityweb.de  Sun Jan 29 18:42:39 2006
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:42:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Stereo Audio CODEC ICs
In-Reply-To: <43DBE5DC.5030603@burnit.co.uk>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGAEHICGAA.jays@aracnet.com> <43DBE5DC.5030603@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D4689B68-471B-4D46-878B-850CABCE0CFC@cityweb.de>


Am 28.01.2006 um 22:45 schrieb Seb Francis:

> Yeah, I assumed as much.  Luckily this is what I want for my  
> application.  I want to keep the sound quality the same while  
> varying the delay time, so I will do this by changing the buffer  
> size in software not the clock rate.

Changing the buffer size is ok if you want a fixed delay. If you want  
to modulate the delay time in real-time for flanging, chorus etc it's  
much better to have separate read and write pointers and change the  
offset between the two (and have a fixed buffer size all the time).  
Imagine what happens when you suddenly increase the buffer size: you  
might play back samples that are hours old, or even uninitialised.

Using two pointers shouldn't be too difficult if the thing is done in  
software.

Ingo


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Jan 29 20:00:24 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:00:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Stereo Audio CODEC ICs
In-Reply-To: <D4689B68-471B-4D46-878B-850CABCE0CFC@cityweb.de>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGAEHICGAA.jays@aracnet.com> <43DBE5DC.5030603@burnit.co.uk> <D4689B68-471B-4D46-878B-850CABCE0CFC@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <43DD10C8.7010901@burnit.co.uk>

Ingo Debus wrote:

>
> Am 28.01.2006 um 22:45 schrieb Seb Francis:
>
>> Yeah, I assumed as much.  Luckily this is what I want for my  
>> application.  I want to keep the sound quality the same while  
>> varying the delay time, so I will do this by changing the buffer  
>> size in software not the clock rate.
>
>
> Changing the buffer size is ok if you want a fixed delay. If you want  
> to modulate the delay time in real-time for flanging, chorus etc it's  
> much better to have separate read and write pointers and change the  
> offset between the two (and have a fixed buffer size all the time).  
> Imagine what happens when you suddenly increase the buffer size: you  
> might play back samples that are hours old, or even uninitialised.
>
> Using two pointers shouldn't be too difficult if the thing is done in  
> software.
>
I do want just a fixed delay .. but even so it would be preferable if 
the delay time can be changed without major glitches.

I hadn't actually thought of the details of the software yet, but what 
you say makes perfect sense .. having a read and write pointer both 
looping around the total buffer, and change the relative position of the 
read pointer when the delay time changes.

Seb



From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 20:22:55 2006
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 21:22:55 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Press and Peel circuit boards
In-Reply-To: <20060128232836.58704.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <f14797730601281505j600e13b9re72620d9a537a0f8@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20060128232836.58704.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80601291122r1b326c86uddf3b58fcc5c735b@mail.gmail.com>

> > Any thoughts or alternatives?

Yup ;)

On 1/29/06, John Speth <johnspeth at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Key things to remember:
> 1. Copper board must be very clean and shiny prior to
> ironing.  Use steel wool.
> 2. Pressure, temperature, and time of heating are all
> variables that must be accurately balanced.  You must
> experiment.
> 3. Older laser printers are known to work better
> because they use more toner.
> 4. If you dno't get good results, clean the board and
> try again.  A good "print" will result in a a good
> etch.
> 5. You can always fix your mistakes in toner transfer
> with a sharpie pen.
>

These are good tips too for the "toner transfer" method I'm
preferring. I use laser transparencies, which are under 10cents per
sheet.

BUT! I have different opinion on one thing - this might only apply to
toner transfer method:

I have found the "correct" settings for my setup. (that's fiberglass
boards (dunno copper thickness), old iron in a cotton setting (market
with 3 points) and one sheet of normal paper between the iron and the
transparency sheet)

But I've found that it's better to first polish the board with fine
sandpaper, clean the board and then PRE-ECTH it and then wash it
before doint the actual transfer.

Pre-ecthing the board slightly for dull, corroded surface seems to
help toner to stick to it.

---

This TCO of printers is a funny thing - I think LJ 1100 started the
trend of affordable personal laserprinters. Before that, I just had to
try rationalize the fact that If you mostly print out B/W letters -
GET A 2nd hand laser. It's an investment you don't have to regret.

I'm waitin' to receive a transfer belt for my Laserjet 5M, total cost
for the printer and  transfer belt (with shipping) 105 euros and now
it's good for next 20000 prints before next part to be replaced, both
A3 B/W and A4 Color.

If you think toner cartridges are expensive, you can always try to
refill yourself, I've been told the bulk toner for copymachines might
work. (and I'm currently using toner from a broken LJIII on Canon
LBP-8IV, no problem)

Samppa


From colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com  Sun Jan 29 23:12:30 2006
From: colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com (Colin Raffel)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:12:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Press and Peel circuit boards
In-Reply-To: <20060129141658.32594.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060129141658.32594.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <65663BD8-AEAE-4F80-8F56-7B3F6C34DB90@experimentalistsanonymous.com>

You can get Toner for the ML-1740 on the web for $40-60.  Toner  
cartridges in this printer, with "toner save" mode on, are supposed  
to last for 5,000 pages (an overstatement of course, but it is  
nonetheless higher.  It is 3000 for non-toner-save).  Ink jet  
printers normally yield much less, maybe around 1,000 (again an  
overstatement).  Ink cartridges typically run $10-20 and up to $40.   
Yes, you certainly need to evaluate the cost of ownership when you  
buy a Laser printer.

-Colin

On Jan 29, 2006, at 9:16 AM, John Speth wrote:

>> I just bid on one on ebay.... 30 bucks with usb. yea
>> i keep watching that
>> video over and over again. It's just genius that
>> people have the time to put
>> something like that together.
>
> Yeah but...
>
> Wait until you need to buy toner for your $30 printer.
>  Then you'll see the irony in that statement.
>
> Lesson: Evaluate the cost of ownership when you buy a
> laser printer.
>
> JJS
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>


From guatis at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 00:57:29 2006
From: guatis at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Benjam=EDn_Velasco?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:57:29 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Interpolating Scanner
In-Reply-To: <3f2ffabc0601291513m43f26cdn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <43DD2F87.8080203@earthlink.net>
	 <NJBBIIOLGLCFPDBGHOFMKEOPCNAA.philgallo@attglobal.net>
	 <3f2ffabc0601291513m43f26cdn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f2ffabc0601291557i17dc77c5y@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe i should change the question....

How can i use any VCA design for the Scanner instead of the ssm2024?


Maybe someone has built the IS using 3080 or 13600/700 ???

I would really apreciate any helop you could give me. I only know basic
electronics, but i really want to build the scanner....




2006/1/29, Benjam?n Velasco <guatis at gmail.com>:
>
> You are right. I remember the ssm2164 linear vca from Charlie Lamm's site.
>
> http://www.charlielamm.com/synth/duallinearvca.php
>
> I'll check it out...
>
> BVO
>
>
> 2006/1/29, phillip m gallo <philgallo at attglobal.net>:
> >
> >
> > SDIY's own Mike Irwin (of phase-mangle'n'Fshifter fame) is the "guy" in
> > question re: linearizing stuff including the SSM2164.
> >
> > p
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > [mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl ]On Behalf Of mark verbos
> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:12 PM
> > To: synth diy
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Interpolating Scanner
> >
> >
> > Well, since the SSM2164 is an exponential VCA and the SSM2024 is linear,
> > it is far from a drop in replacement. However, a guy name Mike Irwinn I
> > believe figured out a design to use 2 of the VCAs in the package in the
> > control path of the other 2 to get a dual linear VCA out of an SSM2164.
> > So, you could then drop one in for each 2 channel of the IP. As far as I
> > know, it has not been done, but that doesn't mean it couldn't. You
> > probably have to change the output buffer's gain as well, since they are
> >
> > different.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Benjam?n Velasco wrote:
> >
> > > Hi list!!
> > >  Im planning to build the IS from JH's site but i need some help. JH
> > > used the ssm2024 for the VCAs but that IC is discontinued. Analog now
> > > produces the ssm2164 which isn't a pin to pin replacement. Anybody
> > knows
> > > the mods i have to make to JHs schemo to use the ssm2164 instead of
> > the
> > > ssm2024 ???
> > >
> > > Best regards...
> > >
> > > Benjam?n
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 1/27/06
> >
> >
> >
>
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 01:07:49 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:07:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer update troubles / solutions posted, but I've a question. :)
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601291607l7ccb2375n5f1dc59ca93f610b@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't know if anyone would be interested in further progress on the
sequencer, so I've just been posting the latest updates in the Design
area of my webpage, since yesterday.

The 8 Gates section is MOSTLY up and running.  Finished it yesterday,
and had a major trouble.  Solved that today, but have some new
troubles, that I'm working out. :)

BUT - I realized that I had FORGOTTEN to hook up a function for the
Gates, and I need a hand here, if someone could. :)

Part of my desire of having 8 individual Gate Outputs (with LEDs) for
my FOUR step sequencer - was so that I could switch between:

Gates 1-4
Gates 5-8
Gates 1-8

But ..... I forgot to setup a switch for this, and now - I can't
remember HOW - TO hook up a switch (toggle switch), TO make 3 choices.
 :( :(  Could anyone clue me in on this???

I believe I can figure it out, with 2 toggle switches (controlling the
Gate's 4051's logic inputs) but I KNOW there've been 3 choices doable
with a single toggle switch.  I just can't remember how it's done. :(

Thanks for any possible help on that one! :)

As soon as I get the current bugs worked out with the Gate's 8 steps,
I'll be hooking up the Divide By 7 counter, and then the 8 rotary
switches. :)  After that, I'll be sampling and throwing wave files up
on the page. :)  HOPEfully - this week. :)  (3 or 4 weeks, behind my
desired finishing schedule, already.  (sigh))

P.S.  Happy New Year everybody!  :D  It's the Year of the Dog, as of
today. :)  (Chinese.  Was the Vietnamese New Year, last Sunday -
apparently.)

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2906 update


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan 30 01:25:33 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:25:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI to CV
In-Reply-To: <200601292331.k0TNVuY7022180@ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <200601292331.k0TNVuY7022180@ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <43DD5CFD.1020307@burnit.co.uk>

Here's one ..
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/index.php?page=fatcontroller

peter mcquain wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> As it looks like I?m not going to get my MIDI2CV module from EFM any 
> time soon, I decided to try a scratch-built version. Can anyone 
> recommend a project or schematic to get me started. I have searched 
> around and not been able to find any complete descriptions, it seems 
> that most don?t want to share their PIC source code. I have several 
> PIC 16F627A?s hanging around, so if I can be picky, something that 
> uses that family would be great J
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> -pete-
>


From syntheticdan at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 05:09:40 2006
From: syntheticdan at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:09:40 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI to CV
In-Reply-To: <200601292331.k0TNVuY7022180@ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <200601292331.k0TNVuY7022180@ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <fc3b811d0601292009h302b196es9c9780b627a2d61e@mail.gmail.com>

I am building the one from www.ucapps.de (based on the midibox platform).
You can get the expensive ICs (maxim DACs)  as free samples direct from
maxim.
The mid-to-cv design they have on the site allows for 10 gates and 8 pitch
CVs, all fully configurable.
Mine is 3/4 built and cost me less than $50. The priciest part is the 1/4"
jacks and rack case (if you choose to buld one that way).

cheers,
     Danjel

On 1/29/06, peter mcquain <pmcquain at tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>  Hi All,
>
>
>
> As it looks like I'm not going to get my MIDI2CV module from EFM any time
> soon, I decided to try a scratch-built version. Can anyone recommend a
> project or schematic to get me started. I have searched around and not been
> able to find any complete descriptions, it seems that most don't want to
> share their PIC source code. I have several PIC 16F627A's hanging around, so
> if I can be picky, something that uses that family would be great J
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> -pete-
>
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From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Mon Jan 30 05:10:29 2006
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 05:10:29 +0100 (CET)
Subject: SV: [sdiy] MIDI to CV
In-Reply-To: <200601292331.k0TNVuY7022180@ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20060130041029.20439.qmail@web26212.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

This one work's well and is really simple to build:
http://m.bareille.free.fr/mcv628/mcv628.html
It's made for the pic16f628 but it could probably be
cramed into the 627. Also check out the pic midi
tutorial on the site, it's really awesome in its
simplicity.


Karl

--- peter mcquain <pmcquain at tampabay.rr.com> skrev:

> Hi All,
> 
>  
> 
> As it looks like I'm not going to get my MIDI2CV
> module from EFM any time
> soon, I decided to try a scratch-built version. Can
> anyone recommend a
> project or schematic to get me started. I have
> searched around and not been
> able to find any complete descriptions, it seems
> that most don't want to
> share their PIC source code. I have several PIC
> 16F627A's hanging around, so
> if I can be picky, something that uses that family
> would be great :-)
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
>  
> 
> -pete-
> 
> 


From harrybissell at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 30 06:05:21 2006
From: harrybissell at prodigy.net (harrybissell)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:05:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Sequencer update troubles / solutions posted, but I've a
 question. :)
References: <b6b288a70601291607l7ccb2375n5f1dc59ca93f610b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43DD9E91.3DBABE05@prodigy.net>

Another way to arrange the switch is with a pull-up
resistor on each leg, and the wiper to ground. Use a center-off
switch and the choices can be 0,1 1,1 1,0 thats three
states...

H^) harry


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon Jan 30 09:32:55 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:32:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Press and Peel circuit boards
In-Reply-To: <65663BD8-AEAE-4F80-8F56-7B3F6C34DB90@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
References: <20060129141658.32594.qmail@web53304.mail.yahoo.com> <65663BD8-AEAE-4F80-8F56-7B3F6C34DB90@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
Message-ID: <20060130083255.GU47723@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 05:12:30PM -0500, Colin Raffel wrote:
> You can get Toner for the ML-1740 on the web for $40-60.  Toner  
> cartridges in this printer, with "toner save" mode on, are supposed  
> to last for 5,000 pages (an overstatement of course, but it is  
> nonetheless higher.  It is 3000 for non-toner-save).  Ink jet  
> printers normally yield much less, maybe around 1,000 (again an  
> overstatement).  Ink cartridges typically run $10-20 and up to $40.   
> Yes, you certainly need to evaluate the cost of ownership when you  
> buy a Laser printer.

Its kinda funny this conversation has come up right now...

I've been looking for a printer to replace my old Phaser 740 ( real colour
laserprinter ) thats just been acting up a bit too much lately.  I find that
a bunch of Lexmark Optra S 2450/2455's have come off lease.  These are
hardcore printers, 100k monthly page, 17k pages per toner cart.  I picked
one up this weekend for $60.  It included 2 additional paper trays and a
duplexer plus a network interface.  Guy also offered to throw in an envelope
feeder if I wanted one.

Refurb carts are in the $80 range but as they are coming off lease you can
usually find boxes of brand new carts for $40ea.  I highly recommend getting
a printer with the duplex option.  Makes printing out docs much more
friendly.

Also one last comment about the cheap laser printers, they tend to use
really crappy toner.  I dont know if they just use much less or what but
they print fine on paper but do horrid transparencys or water-decals.  Also
some of the cheap colour printers are not compatible with the blue toner
transfer sheets at all so make sure you can test the printer for these weird
applications before the return period is up.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon Jan 30 10:30:01 2006
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:30:01 -0800
Subject: SV: [sdiy] MIDI to CV (and PAiA Reverse SPAM)
In-Reply-To: <A04E203B-7196-494E-BEE8-0AA987189384@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
References: <20060130041029.20439.qmail@web26212.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <A04E203B-7196-494E-BEE8-0AA987189384@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
Message-ID: <20060130093000.GV47723@moo.sysabend.org>

On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 03:50:39AM -0500, Colin Raffel wrote:
> I've been looking at MIDI-CV converters as well.  I think I am going  
> with the PAiA kit just because I can choose between 24ppq with a gate/ 
> note output as well as having a polyphonic generator...  and I hear  
> it is quite nice and does not look too bad to build.  Has anyone  
> built one? Before I spring on the $96, does anyone have a kit they  
> decided they don't want or a partly finished one they gave up on  
> they'd be willing to sell me for a lower price?

I have two the Paia midi/cvs.  They work well.  Its possible, with some
hunting, to find all the software you need to recompile the code so you can
make changes easily tho it does require a prom burner.  For example I've done 
an ugly hack to have it start the scale at F unstead of C so I can directly 
drive my minimoog.  as far as assembly, the wires to all the jacks drove me
crazy esp since I have them both in the rackmount case.  Beyond that it was
a quick build ( actually in my case it was a rebuild but thats a long
story... )

Something else to consider if the EFM midi/cv looked like an option:
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/diy_archive/schematics/misc/midi_cv/

Thats a link to some early code for Trevor Pages' Midi/CV using the 16F84.
That code plus the EFM schematic should get you a simple midi/cv.  One great
thing about that midi/cv is its dirt-cheap to make.  Its not insanely
accurate as stated on the page, but its really cheap to make. 

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  


From kalotony at videotron.ca  Mon Jan 30 11:31:20 2006
From: kalotony at videotron.ca (Tony Kalomiris)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 04:31:20 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] fume extraction revisited
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060130042718.0402c270@pop.videotron.ca>

Hi group,

I'm about to lay out a cool $600 on a Metcal BVX-101 Fume Extraction 
Filter and
was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this or similar products ?

I'm pretty excited about it actually - I've done my research and it 
looks like a good unit.
Can't wait to start soldering again and not get sick !

TK


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 1/27/2006



From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Mon Jan 30 12:18:28 2006
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:18:28 +0000
Subject: SV: [sdiy] MIDI to CV (and PAiA Reverse SPAM)
In-Reply-To: <A04E203B-7196-494E-BEE8-0AA987189384@experimentalistsanonymous.com>
Message-ID: <C003A684.532E%davekendall@ntlworld.com>

I built a midi2CV8 a while ago, and it works well, but the MOD wheel and
Pitch bend have some zipper noise on the output. To fix this, put a simple
lag circuit on the output of the mod wheel. I used the core of this one.
<http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~houshu/synth/glide0301.GIF>
Replacing the lag time pot with a fixed 62K resistor was quick enough for
mod wheel moves, and completely removed the zipper noise when opening up
filters for example. (59-60K was optimum - zipper gone, fastest response)

For the pitch wheel, there is a mod in the manual that brings the 10V range
down to ?2 semitones. Following this with an offset circuit centres the
wheel (The stock option is +5.33V at the centre detent, 0V at the bottom,
and +10 ish at the top!)
I added a second offset/scaler circuit with a pot to set depth, and a DPDT
switch to select between this and the ?2 semitone output.
(there is an old thread on [sdiy] "CV offset question" about this, sometime
around the end of last year)

The mods were well worth a bit of extra effort.

B.T.W. The Paia is a robust little beastie - it survived a short between -V
and GND which took *ages* to find. When the offending hair of solder was
removed it worked perfectly first time, and still does.

cheers,

Dave.

on 30/1/06 8:50, Colin Raffel at colin at experimentalistsanonymous.com wrote:

> I've been looking at MIDI-CV converters as well.  I think I am going
> with the PAiA kit just because I can choose between 24ppq with a gate/
> note output as well as having a polyphonic generator...  and I hear
> it is quite nice and does not look too bad to build.  Has anyone
> built one? Before I spring on the $96, does anyone have a kit they
> decided they don't want or a partly finished one they gave up on
> they'd be willing to sell me for a lower price?
> 
> Thanks
> -Colin
> On Jan 29, 2006, at 11:10 PM, Karl Ekdahl wrote:
> 
>> This one work's well and is really simple to build:
>> http://m.bareille.free.fr/mcv628/mcv628.html
>> It's made for the pic16f628 but it could probably be
>> cramed into the 627. Also check out the pic midi
>> tutorial on the site, it's really awesome in its
>> simplicity.
>> 
>> 
>> Karl
>> 
>> --- peter mcquain <pmcquain at tampabay.rr.com> skrev:
>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As it looks like I'm not going to get my MIDI2CV
>>> module from EFM any time
>>> soon, I decided to try a scratch-built version. Can
>>> anyone recommend a
>>> project or schematic to get me started. I have
>>> searched around and not been
>>> able to find any complete descriptions, it seems
>>> that most don't want to
>>> share their PIC source code. I have several PIC
>>> 16F627A's hanging around, so
>>> if I can be picky, something that uses that family
>>> would be great :-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -pete-
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 



From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Mon Jan 30 12:30:07 2006
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:30:07 +0000
Subject: SV: [sdiy] MIDI to CV (and PAiA Reverse SPAM)
In-Reply-To: <C003A684.532E%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <C003A93F.5331%davekendall@ntlworld.com>

Oops, 

Should have written;

Replacing the lag time pot AND THE 1K2 resistor with a fixed 62K resistor
was quick enough for mod wheel moves, and completely removed the zipper
noise when opening up filters for example. (59-60K was optimum - zipper
gone, fastest response)

Dave


From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Jan 30 13:30:48 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 05:30:48 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Desoldering techniques for chips that you want to keep?
Message-ID: <200601301330.k0UDUmp22801@linux7>

steve jones <stevejones at hotpop.com> wrote:
>Newbie stuff.... I've always used chip sockets for my DIY projects so
>far, so this is new to me...
>I'm looking for info on how to desolder and remove chips from a
>circuit board without damaging either. Should I use a solder sucker or
>copper braid? Flux? Soldering iron size / power? Should I add new
>solder to start with? How tough are chips anyway?
>General advice most welcome.
>Steve

Soldering iron - I use the same one I do soldering with, a small one, I think 35 watts.

As far as solder-wick vs. a sucker, I like the sucker, but many like the wick.  I
think it's possible to find circumstances where either one might be preferable. 
I'd say have them both on hand since neither is expensive.

For a sucker, sometimes it is better to add a tiny bit of new solder to make sure
the sucker's draw hole gets a good liquid meniscus and seals before the vacuum is
applied.  If the solder is sparse on the board, adding solder helps.

The main thing is don't overheat.  Even a low wattage iron can overheat a joint if
it's left in place too long.  Knowing when to remove it just takes doing it a few
times, you'll get the hang of it.

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.


From lars_thorsten at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 30 13:34:34 2006
From: lars_thorsten at hotmail.com (Thorsten P.)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:34:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Wanted/Looking for 2SD1469 and 2SC2878?
In-Reply-To: <C003A93F.5331%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <BAY114-F154F1CB74D563C06DC81AD91090@phx.gbl>

Hello

I need these two transisitors two times each of them.
2*2SD1469
2*2SC2878
Maybe someone knows a reliable dealer or other source where I can get them.
I'm located in Germany

Thanx for helping
Thorsten



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan 30 14:05:22 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:05:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Wanted/Looking for 2SD1469 and 2SC2878?
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-F154F1CB74D563C06DC81AD91090@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY114-F154F1CB74D563C06DC81AD91090@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43DE0F12.2000801@burnit.co.uk>

http://www.dalbani.co.uk

They've got lots of the transistors used in the early Roland gear.

Seb


Thorsten P. wrote:

> Hello
>
> I need these two transisitors two times each of them.
> 2*2SD1469
> 2*2SC2878
> Maybe someone knows a reliable dealer or other source where I can get 
> them.
> I'm located in Germany
>
> Thanx for helping
> Thorsten
>
>
>
>


From stevejones at hotpop.com  Mon Jan 30 14:11:05 2006
From: stevejones at hotpop.com (steve jones)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:11:05 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Desoldering techniques for chips that you want to keep?
Message-ID: <u24st1dktoml94socbo4u36no62ntniae0@4ax.com>

Newbie stuff.... I've always used chip sockets for my DIY projects so
far, so this is new to me...
I'm looking for info on how to desolder and remove chips from a
circuit board without damaging either. Should I use a solder sucker or
copper braid? Flux? Soldering iron size / power? Should I add new
solder to start with? How tough are chips anyway?
General advice most welcome.
Steve



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Mon Jan 30 14:17:38 2006
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:17:38 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] What electronic components do when you're not looking
In-Reply-To: <200601292331.k0TNVuY7022180@ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20060130131738.9522.qmail@web25501.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/electrofun.html

KD


From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Jan 30 14:20:48 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:20:48 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Desoldering techniques for chips that you want to keep?
Message-ID: <200601301420.k0UEKmp27876@linux7>

I'm not suggesting this at all, but I remember watching someone do it (VERY CAREFULLY)
using a propane torch with a fan tip.  He would shake the board after the solder was
melted and most of the chips just fell out.

The worst situation is where all of the leads are bent over before soldering.  So if
it's the _board_ that's valuable, I would simply cut the ICs off with diagonal cutters
and then unsolder the lead pieces.  If the _ICs_ are valuable, then you have to unsolder
them carefully.  I've had good luck with desoldering pins one at a time, but I've never
tried to harvest tens or hundreds of chips that way - I'm sure it would be tedious and
time consuming.  I can see where the "all-pins" tip could work, but only with a
correctly sized heating element.

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>It's pretty hard.  If you want to be sure not to damage the PCB then you 
>are better off sacrificing the IC - cut the pins and desolder individually.
>
>But you can get special soldering iron bit that will desolder up to a 
>16pin DIP IC all in 1 go (it sits on all pins at once).  This is the 
>best way I can think of.  Maybe with a single sided board you'd be able 
>to manage by removing the solder with a solder sucker or desoldering 
>braid, but with double sided PTH boards it'll be near enough impossible 
>to do this.
>
>Seb
>
>
>steve jones wrote:
>
>>Newbie stuff.... I've always used chip sockets for my DIY projects so
>>far, so this is new to me...
>>I'm looking for info on how to desolder and remove chips from a
>>circuit board without damaging either. Should I use a solder sucker or
>>copper braid? Flux? Soldering iron size / power? Should I add new
>>solder to start with? How tough are chips anyway?
>>General advice most welcome.
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Jan 30 14:28:49 2006
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:28:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Desoldering techniques for chips that you want to keep?
In-Reply-To: <u24st1dktoml94socbo4u36no62ntniae0@4ax.com>
References: <u24st1dktoml94socbo4u36no62ntniae0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43DE1491.3040304@burnit.co.uk>

It's pretty hard.  If you want to be sure not to damage the PCB then you 
are better off sacrificing the IC - cut the pins and desolder individually.

But you can get special soldering iron bit that will desolder up to a 
16pin DIP IC all in 1 go (it sits on all pins at once).  This is the 
best way I can think of.  Maybe with a single sided board you'd be able 
to manage by removing the solder with a solder sucker or desoldering 
braid, but with double sided PTH boards it'll be near enough impossible 
to do this.

Seb


steve jones wrote:

>Newbie stuff.... I've always used chip sockets for my DIY projects so
>far, so this is new to me...
>I'm looking for info on how to desolder and remove chips from a
>circuit board without damaging either. Should I use a solder sucker or
>copper braid? Flux? Soldering iron size / power? Should I add new
>solder to start with? How tough are chips anyway?
>General advice most welcome.
>Steve
>
>
>
>
>  
>


From rude66 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 15:14:43 2006
From: rude66 at gmail.com (rude66)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:14:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Desoldering techniques for chips that you want to keep?
In-Reply-To: <43DE1491.3040304@burnit.co.uk>
References: <u24st1dktoml94socbo4u36no62ntniae0@4ax.com>
	 <43DE1491.3040304@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <997df4b50601300614t2e72edd4r5f20f4efb7d7c8b8@mail.gmail.com>

2 ways i've used to get stuff off of circuit boards:

the messy way: hold the board solder down over a gas stove until the solder
starts to melt. them smash board hard on the counter.. voila, almost all
parts will come flying out, including ic's resistors, etc.
disadvantage: it stinks because a lot of times the board also starts to
melt. and the solder can get onto the counter, so it's messy.

the better way: use a small gas burner and do it outside.. i have a small
thing, it's like a portable soldering gun running on gas, it's fairly easy
to get it to run the flame over all the soldered pins and get the solder to
flow on all pint, then flip board over and tap on something. 99% of the time
the ic comes out.

r./

On 1/30/06, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>
> It's pretty hard.  If you want to be sure not to damage the PCB then you
> are better off sacrificing the IC - cut the pins and desolder
> individually.
>
> But you can get special soldering iron bit that will desolder up to a
> 16pin DIP IC all in 1 go (it sits on all pins at once).  This is the
> best way I can think of.  Maybe with a single sided board you'd be able
> to manage by removing the solder with a solder sucker or desoldering
> braid, but with double sided PTH boards it'll be near enough impossible
> to do this.
>
> Seb
>
>
> steve jones wrote:
>
> >Newbie stuff.... I've always used chip sockets for my DIY projects so
> >far, so this is new to me...
> >I'm looking for info on how to desolder and remove chips from a
> >circuit board without damaging either. Should I use a solder sucker or
> >copper braid? Flux? Soldering iron size / power? Should I add new
> >solder to start with? How tough are chips anyway?
> >General advice most welcome.
> >Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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From rykhaard at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 16:41:31 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:41:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Desoldering techniques for chips that you want to keep?
In-Reply-To: <997df4b50601300614t2e72edd4r5f20f4efb7d7c8b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <u24st1dktoml94socbo4u36no62ntniae0@4ax.com>
	 <43DE1491.3040304@burnit.co.uk>
	 <997df4b50601300614t2e72edd4r5f20f4efb7d7c8b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601300741l790b6ba0i3d00aa2c59ba7577@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/30/06, rude66 <rude66 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  the better way: use a small gas burner and do it outside.. i have a small
> thing, it's like a portable soldering gun running on gas, it's fairly easy
> to get it to run the flame over all the soldered pins and get the solder to
> flow on all pint, then flip board over and tap on something. 99% of the time
> the ic comes out.
>
>  r./

A couple of ways as well - first related to Rude's. :)

A blow torch waved over the chip area quickly, and then immediately
slapping the board against a hard surface at one of it's edges, will
pop the chips out.

For solder braid, if you're wishing to keep the board still:

- Keep your temperature at about 700F (600F for SMT)
- Use a thinner braid.  About 1/16th - 1/8'th of an inch wide
- Apply the very end of the braid, for ease in applying it right to the pin/pad
- Hold the tip of the iron to it (not the side of the tip) moving the
braid, left and right slightly, to encourage more solder inTO it
- Cut off the end of the braid containing solder as WELL as another
1/8th of an inch or so, as contaminant (heated flux from the braid?)
seems to make it worthless in picking up more solder
- Start again, after a couple of seconds, of letting the pad cool
- Go to the next pad, and repeat
- Once you've done all of the pads - don't worry if some of the pins
are still attached to the throughhole plating, place a prying tool
under 1 edge of the chip
- Apply a LITTLE bit of pressure to the plying tool; start heating the
pins that are still attached to the through hole plating, moving those
pins with the iron to the center of the solder hole
- Change your lifting tool to the other end of the chip and repeat the
above step
- Once you've done this, if there's still any solder inside of the
hole, cut off the end of the braid, and remove it, quickly and then
start lifting the chip again

This is assuming, it's a double sided, plated through holes board. 
I've done 14, 16, 20, 24 and 40 pins chips regularly at work, in these
regards.  I've only ever lost, 1 or 2 chips. :)

If you're doing 2 or 3 legged parts in this regard - give the pads
MORE solder, with the part side aimed down; whack the board against
the table.  Chances of the part falling out, are higher. :)  (This is
IF - the parts pins are NOT bent.  In such cases for ANYthing, trim
the bends off.  If they're left on - your chances of ripping the
plated through core from the board, are MUCH greater. :O :( )

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 2706 update


From switchbladekey at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 17:19:34 2006
From: switchbladekey at gmail.com (S. P. W. )
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:19:34 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Moog Source bank memory uprade
Message-ID: <7dde4aac0601300819k3f3adfd1y8e2f6f74e79b1dd0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I bought a broken Moog Source to practice my repair skills on. Doesn't
hurt a bit that I really wanted one too ;) I am sure I will fix it
eventually if not immediately, so am already planning upgrades.

Encore Electronics sells a Midi Kit for the Moog source that adds bank
memory. 16 banks, 16 patches.

I used to think they upgraded the size of the rom chip, but then I
read on their site that to make memory space they wipe out the
sequencer capability.

"due to functionality, program space and user access considerations,
all of the sequencer and cassette functions have been removed."

They have their firmware on their site, Do you think burning their
firmware to a ROM and just plugging it into the Source directly might
give you the bank upgrade if put into an otherwise stock Synth?

The MIDI stuff might not work without the hardware, or you might mess
up the whole thing, but it seems like one could figure out how to rob
the sequencer memory without putting in a whole midi kit. That is what
I want even more than midi capablitly, 16 patches is a bit limiting.
Seems low risk if one uses a different ROM than your stock one.

Also, their board doesn't look that complex. $250 seems quite pricey.
Anyone ever made something similar themselves? Would it be wrong to
build my own board to use their firmware? They put it up there for
anyone to download, and have no licensing statement that precludes me
doing so... The moral dilemma...

Take care,

Jester

--
Darkness within darkness, The gateway to all understanding.
     - Lao Tzu


From andy at techman.synth.net  Mon Jan 30 18:45:19 2006
From: andy at techman.synth.net (Andy Wilson)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:45:19 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] 9090 pre-order
In-Reply-To: <C003CDEE.533C%davekendall@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <43DE50AF.32128.1E2A763@localhost>

Hi Dave,

On 30 Jan 2006 at 14:06, Dave Kendall wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> There was a thread here a while back, suggesting that Trevor Page 
would do a
> 9090 board run if 10 or more people came up with money for the pre-
order.

Yes, it seems he's been persuaded to do another run.

Check out:

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/introspectiv/

Cheers

Andy
---

Andy Wilson
http://www.techman.synth.net
andy at techman.synth.net


From Stromeko at compuserve.de  Mon Jan 30 19:25:16 2006
From: Stromeko at compuserve.de (ASSI)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:25:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Desoldering techniques for chips that you want to keep?
In-Reply-To: <u24st1dktoml94socbo4u36no62ntniae0@4ax.com>
References: <u24st1dktoml94socbo4u36no62ntniae0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200601301925.17758.Stromeko@Compuserve.DE>

On Montag, 30. Januar 2006 14:11, steve jones wrote:
> I'm looking for info on how to desolder and remove chips from a
> circuit board without damaging either.

This is a pretty tough requirement and may not work with some types of 
board material or parts. The only way to get consistent results for 
many boards or chips is a repair wave solder station. If the machine is 
intended for repair work, then it should also have a set of tools to 
safely remove the parts that are to be desoldered without bending their 
pins. The boards should be evenly preheated to about 120?C on a hot 
plate to reduce thermal stress. Depending how many boards you have, it 
may pay to look around for a shop or institution that will let you use 
their machine.

Single ICs can be safely desoldered from most boards with a dull syringe 
(the pointy end ground down). Keep a few sizes so that the syringe fits 
into the hole and the pin into the syringe; get the solder liquid and 
slide the syringe over the pin, then until the solder solidifies. Don't 
do a second pin on the same IC until it has cooled down. The moral 
equivalent of this method for SMD IC is a thin blade of spring steel. 
With some practice you can desolder a PLCC package in four continous 
swoops (with the requisite cooling pause inbetween), one for each side.


The syringe method does not work too well with resistors or power 
transistors where the wire fits very snugly into the hole - if you put 
the board safety first, you need to cut off these and then push the 
remaining wire through the hole with a hardened steel pin of the 
correct size. Make sure the wire and solder does not re-attach to the 
board somewhere.

Last but not least, if you do not need to save 100% of the parts and the 
boards, but have many of them: get yourself a temperature controlled 
hot-air gun and practice to blow & shake the parts off the board. 
Especially for those big digital boards found in old computers this 
works surprisingly well. Preheat the board as with the wave solder 
machine.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk sonic heaven]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf rackAttack V1.04R1:
http://Stromeko.Synth.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada



From lsh.synth at seznam.cz  Mon Jan 30 21:01:33 2006
From: lsh.synth at seznam.cz (=?us-ascii?Q?Jaroslav_Lukes?=)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:01:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] matched FETs for phaser
In-Reply-To: <006801c625cc$53aa65b0$9055f442@positronium>
Message-ID: <20060130200146.381B0194037@smtp.etmail.cz>

> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:owner-synth-
> 
> I know it's not that hard to match FETs for use in a phaser, but I was
> wondering if one used two matched pairs that weren't matched to each other
> if you would have good results.
> 
> What I mean is it seems like it would be most important to match each pair
> for two stages for each peak/notch. How do 2 seperate phasers connected
> serially controlled by the same LFO sound?
> 

Here are at discount sales 6 matched (ie., 6 on single chip, not matched by
measure, but they have very small differences) transistors in single chip:
MH2009 and MH2009A

See http://io.freehosting.cz/166.gif

And you can buy it at http://www.mkelektro.com/index_uk.html 

Origimally, it was designed for switching apps, but at analog apps it is
very good too. It was used as signal switchers and mixers, VCA+VCF at famous
construction of Dolby B compander by Jaroslav Belza etc.


Regards, JL.


From megaohm1 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 21:36:05 2006
From: megaohm1 at gmail.com (megaohm)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:36:05 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] SSM2018T
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060130202502.0353fce8@pop.xs4all.nl>
References: <1820a14d0601300944t6ef788dake09c1c40e66bdd74@mail.gmail.com>
	 <6.1.2.0.0.20060130202502.0353fce8@pop.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <a6fac3a00601301236t7db0f426y1427c7f1c0dc1ed4@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/30/06, Simon Brouwer <simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> At 18:44 30-1-2006, you wrote:
> >Has anyone used this chip for a VCA?



I haven't. But I have a schematic that uses one. Search out Radio-Flier
Electronics. It's the RFE-117 VCA. Designed by Tom Farrand. There's even a
27 page user manual on the site.


http://www.radio-flier.com/


Hope that helps,
peng
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From megaohm1 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 21:54:33 2006
From: megaohm1 at gmail.com (megaohm)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:54:33 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] THAT Corp Transistor Array Poll
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20060130122029.021d9728@pop.west.cox.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20060130122029.021d9728@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <a6fac3a00601301254p961f264v544dc0f2248ce1cf@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Jim. The THAT340 can be wired to be an OTA replacement. I would
have the THAT300 and THAT320 tied for second place.

peng


On 1/30/06, James Patchell <patchell at cox.net> wrote:
>
> If he needs to prioritize...I would say THAT340 would be first, followed
> by
> THAT320.  The THAT300, which is a quad NPN would be third.
>
> At 01:45 PM 1/30/2006 -0600, Scott Stites wrote:
> >Hi List,
> >
> >I asked Steve Daniels of Small Bear if he could also stock THAT matched
> >transistors.  He asked me which part number, and it occurred to me that
> >perhaps the list here would have a better idea of what array would be
> most
> >useful.
> >
> >Info on THAT's transistor arrays is here:
> >
> >http://www.thatcorp.com/300desc.html
> >
> >So, what device(s) would prove most useful to you all?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Scott
> >
> >
> >________________________________________
> >PeoplePC Online
> >A better way to Internet
> >http://www.peoplepc.com
>
>         -Jim
> ***************************************************************
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell
>
> ***************************************************************
>
>
>
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From edmund.evenden at ntlworld.com  Mon Jan 30 22:26:49 2006
From: edmund.evenden at ntlworld.com (Edmund Evenden)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:26:49 -0000
Subject: SV: [sdiy] MIDI to CV (and PAiA Reverse SPAM)
In-Reply-To: <43DE4F7C.6318.1DDF7BD@localhost>
Message-ID: <IFEMKMGKOEIJCIFJNCIBCEGBCFAA.edmund.evenden@ntlworld.com>

If you need the original schematics they can be found in the files section
of the 9090 yahoo group.

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/introspectiv/


Cheers
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Andy Wilson
Sent: 30 January 2006 17:40
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: SV: [sdiy] MIDI to CV (and PAiA Reverse SPAM)


On 30 Jan 2006 at 1:30, Tom Arnold wrote:

http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/diy_archive/schematics/misc/
midi_cv/
>
> Thats a link to some early code for Trevor Pages' Midi/CV using the
16F84.
> That code plus the EFM schematic should get you a simple midi/cv.
One great
> thing about that midi/cv is its dirt-cheap to make.  Its not
insanely
> accurate as stated on the page, but its really cheap to make.

Funnily enough I built this very circuit yesterday, as I'm in need of
a quick and dirty Midi/CV and I happened to have all the parts handy.
Lashed it up on a bit of Veroboard and it works fine, although, of
course, it's only 8 bits.

Cheers

Andy
---

Andy Wilson
http://www.techman.synth.net
andy at techman.synth.net




From resfreq at hoohahrecords.com  Mon Jan 30 23:10:30 2006
From: resfreq at hoohahrecords.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:10:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] EL wire = opto compressor?
Message-ID: <00ef01c625e9$fc143bf0$947ba8c0@HypoLuxa>

Hi list,

I have a broken Playstation 2 controller here (Pelican Afterglow) that has a 
good sized piece of EL wire in it.  I disassembled the controller and found 
that the high voltage driver is on a tiny seperate circuit board.    Just 
for fun, I connected this driver up to the output of an LFO... and it lights 
up quite nicely.    I can get a nice variation in brightness when varying 
the input voltage from 0v to 12v

So...  any reason not to try to make an opto compressor out of this thing? 
I'm not expecting an LA3A, just a fun grungy mono compressor.   Anyone done 
something like this?

I've never really messed with compression circuits before, but this is what 
I'm thinking:   input signal splits into 2 paths... audio and CV.

CV source is full wave rectified and amplified to 0-12v range which drives 
the EL wire.  I could then add a lag circuit for attack / release.

EL wire is mounted to a photoresistor in a light-proof box.   Photoresistor 
is part of the feedback loop of an opamp amplifier, providing unity gain 
with no light and some attenuation with the EL wire fully lit.

Is this how you would typically accomplish this?   I realize that this is an 
overly simplified description, but I just wanted to see if I'm on the right 
path.  Also... anything special to look for when buying a photoresistor? 
There's a little 5 pack available at Radioshack that I was going to buy to 
experiment with (to get an idea of resistance ranges when applying different 
voltages to the EL wire's driver)

Thanks

Dave Magnuson 


From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Mon Jan 30 23:21:00 2006
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:21:00 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Desoldering techniques for chips that you want to keep?
Message-ID: <20060130222100.25CF13BA@stiletto.hotkey.net.au>

Blow torch? Burner? Bah!  Use a paint stripping mains powered hot air gun.
No flames, and a hell of a lot more controllable. Always do it with the edge
of the board facing you, so if a bubble in a solder joint pops, you don't
get it in the face.

Ken
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au or sasami at cgs.synth.net
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/synth/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>


From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Mon Jan 30 23:39:12 2006
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:39:12 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] THAT Corp Transistor Array Poll
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20060130122029.021d9728@pop.west.cox.net>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20060130122029.021d9728@pop.west.cox.net>
Message-ID: <43DE9590.4060609@ix.netcom.com>

Agreed - I'll add my volt (uh...vote) in favor. The 340 is a most useful 
configuration.


James Patchell wrote:
> If he needs to prioritize...I would say THAT340 would be first, followed 
> by THAT320.  The THAT300, which is a quad NPN would be third.
> 
> At 01:45 PM 1/30/2006 -0600, Scott Stites wrote:
> 
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I asked Steve Daniels of Small Bear if he could also stock THAT 
>> matched transistors.  He asked me which part number, and it occurred 
>> to me that perhaps the list here would have a better idea of what 
>> array would be most useful.
>>
>> Info on THAT's transistor arrays is here:
>>
>> http://www.thatcorp.com/300desc.html
>>
>> So, what device(s) would prove most useful to you all?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> PeoplePC Online
>> A better way to Internet
>> http://www.peoplepc.com
> 
> 
>         -Jim
> ***************************************************************
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell
> 
> ***************************************************************
> 
> 
> 


From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Mon Jan 30 23:55:09 2006
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:55:09 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] matched FETs for phaser
References: <20060130200146.381B0194037@smtp.etmail.cz>
Message-ID: <007e01c625f0$3ab88db0$9055f442@positronium>

I have a strict policy about trying to use parts I already have. Especially 
since I have a huge amount of neat parts that I've scavanged.

I'm not averse to buying parts, but often my projects take interesting 
detours trying to adapt what I have that would not have occured otherwise. 
There /is/ a pointof diminishing returns though.

What actually got me thinking about this was my plan to use a matched pair - 
something similar to a 2SC3958 that came from a piece of tektronix gear - 
for a clone of MXR's Phase 45. Since I have two of these I wondered how a 
Phase 90 would sound _using_these_parts_.

At the heart of these ponderings was a question of theory: do ALL FET's in 
a phaser need to be matched or just matched in pairs?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jaroslav Lukes" <lsh.synth at seznam.cz>
To: "'anthony'" <aankrom at bluemarble.net>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] matched FETs for phaser


>> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:owner-synth-
>>
>> I know it's not that hard to match FETs for use in a phaser, but I was
>> wondering if one used two matched pairs that weren't matched to each 
>> other
>> if you would have good results.
>>
>> What I mean is it seems like it would be most important to match each 
>> pair
>> for two stages for each peak/notch. How do 2 seperate phasers connected
>> serially controlled by the same LFO sound?
>>
>
> Here are at discount sales 6 matched (ie., 6 on single chip, not matched 
> by
> measure, but they have very small differences) transistors in single chip:
> MH2009 and MH2009A
>
> See http://io.freehosting.cz/166.gif
>
> And you can buy it at http://www.mkelektro.com/index_uk.html
>
> Origimally, it was designed for switching apps, but at analog apps it is
> very good too. It was used as signal switchers and mixers, VCA+VCF at 
> famous
> construction of Dolby B compander by Jaroslav Belza etc.
>
>
> Regards, JL.
>
> 



From jays at aracnet.com  Tue Jan 31 02:31:22 2006
From: jays at aracnet.com (jays at aracnet.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:31:22 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] EL wire = opto compressor?
Message-ID: <200601310131.k0V1VMl3015165@sapphire.spiritone.com>

Inverter noise!

I've done work with EL wire. The inverters tend to be very noisy. I'd be worried about them bleading though into the audio domain. Also the sensor would need to be slow enough or you'd have to add a filter to get rid of the AC from EL wire.

There are two ways to control he bightness of the EL wire one is voltage level and the other is modulation frequency. Voltages range from about 60V to 120V AC at a rate of ~200 hz to ~8 kHz. You can find the spec for EL wire out there and it will give you all the details.

Jay S.


Dave Magnuson wrote:

> Hi list,
> 
> I have a broken Playstation 2 controller here (Pelican Afterglow) that has a 
> good sized piece of EL wire in it.  I disassembled the controller and found 
> that the high voltage driver is on a tiny seperate circuit board.    Just 
> for fun, I connected this driver up to the output of an LFO... and it lights 
> up quite nicely.    I can get a nice variation in brightness when varying 
> the input voltage from 0v to 12v
> 
> So...  any reason not to try to make an opto compressor out of this thing? 
> I'm not expecting an LA3A, just a fun grungy mono compressor.   Anyone done 
> something like this?
> 
> I've never really messed with compression circuits before, but this is what 
> I'm thinking:   input signal splits into 2 paths... audio and CV.
> 
> CV source is full wave rectified and amplified to 0-12v range which drives 
> the EL wire.  I could then add a lag circuit for attack / release.
> 
> EL wire is mounted to a photoresistor in a light-proof box.   Photoresistor 
> is part of the feedback loop of an opamp amplifier, providing unity gain 
> with no light and some attenuation with the EL wire fully lit.
> 
> Is this how you would typically accomplish this?   I realize that this is an 
> overly simplified description, but I just wanted to see if I'm on the right 
> path.  Also... anything special to look for when buying a photoresistor? 
> There's a little 5 pack available at Radioshack that I was going to buy to 
> experiment with (to get an idea of resistance ranges when applying different 
> voltages to the EL wire's driver)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dave Magnuson 


From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Jan 31 02:44:53 2006
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:44:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Ray Wilson Envelope Generator
Message-ID: <200601310244.k0V2irp22231@linux7>

Jim Bob <c10h14no2i at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Has anyone built the Ray Wilson ADSR? I built two of them. One 
>works fine, but the other does not work. Two of the IC's get hot 
>when it has power. I have checkd every solder point. I have 
>checked every component value. I have checked the polarity on 
>everything. I have checked that all of the diodes are ok. I 
>removed all of the IC's, put in IC Sockets and installed all new 
>IC's. I still have the exact same problem! I can't think of 
>anything else to try. I am about to give up, If anyone has built 
>it and knows a little more about electronics than I, maybe you 
>could think of a reason IC's U3 (cd40106) and U4 (cd4066) are 
>getting hot. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

check the power pin wiring on the hotties, make sure it isn't backwards.

>  
>  http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/ADSR001/ADSR001.html
>  
>  Scott
>  
>
>		
>---------------------------------
>Bring words and photos together (easily) with
> PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

---------------------------------------------------------
- Where merit is not rewarded, excellence fades.
- Hydrogen is pointless without solar.
- What good are laws that only lawyers understand?
- The media's credibility should always be questioned.
- The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
- Governments do nothing well, save collect taxes.

-- Scott Gravenhorst | LegoManiac / Lego Trains / RIS 1.5
-- Linux Rex         | RedWebMail by RedStarWare
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- Autodidactic Master of Arcane and Hidden Knowledge.


From c10h14no2i at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 31 03:34:11 2006
From: c10h14no2i at yahoo.com (Jim Bob)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:34:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Ray Wilson Envelope Generator
Message-ID: <20060131023411.225.qmail@web35913.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Has anyone built the Ray Wilson ADSR?  I  built two of them.  One works fine, but the other does not  work.  Two of the IC's get hot when it has power.  I have  checkd every solder point.  I have checked every component  value.  I have checked the polarity on everything.  I have  checked that all of the diodes are ok.  I removed all of the IC's,  put in IC Sockets and installed all new IC's.  I still have the  exact same problem!
  I can't think of anything else to try.   I am about to give up,
  If anyone has built it and knows a little more about electronics than  I, maybe you could think of a reason IC's U3 (cd40106) and U4 (cd4066)  are getting hot.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
  
  http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/ADSR001/ADSR001.html
  
  Scott
  

		
---------------------------------
Bring words and photos together (easily) with
 PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
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From mtechgroup at onemain.com  Tue Jan 31 04:19:15 2006
From: mtechgroup at onemain.com (MTG)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:19:15 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Small Bear Delay chips
References: <000b01c6241d$09096520$b506f504@default>
Message-ID: <005201c62615$1f7703e0$f192b2d1@oemcomputer>

They have quite a selection of delay chips (BBD and digital).
Neat site.

GB

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <scottnoanh at peoplepc.com>
To: "Synth-Diy at Dropmix. Xs4all. Nl" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:10 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Small Bear Now Selling THAT VCAs


> http://www.smallbearelec.com/Updates.htm


From lsh.synth at seznam.cz  Tue Jan 31 06:36:22 2006
From: lsh.synth at seznam.cz (=?us-ascii?Q?Jaroslav_Lukes?=)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:36:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] matched FETs for phaser
In-Reply-To: <007e01c625f0$3ab88db0$9055f442@positronium>
Message-ID: <20060131053634.C2325194008@smtp.etmail.cz>

> From: anthony [mailto:aankrom at bluemarble.net]
> I have a strict policy about trying to use parts I already have.

It is not expensive. I was buy it before few years for 0.1$ per piece.

> Especially
> since I have a huge amount of neat parts that I've scavanged.
> 
> I'm not averse to buying parts, but often my projects take interesting
> detours trying to adapt what I have that would not have occured otherwise.
> There /is/ a pointof diminishing returns though.
> 
> What actually got me thinking about this was my plan to use a matched pair
> -
> something similar to a 2SC3958 that came from a piece of tektronix gear -
> for a clone of MXR's Phase 45. Since I have two of these I wondered how a
> Phase 90 would sound _using_these_parts_.

Okay, use these pairs.

 
> At the heart of these ponderings was a question of theory: do ALL FET's in
> a phaser need to be matched or just matched in pairs?

Try to simulate it. I think that in two transistor cascade it is not as
importatn. And make some measurement with originals of ocurse.

If you want to have best performance, use very powerfull switched phaser
from Elektor which have (I think) 18 cascades. Or try to use phaser from
switched capacitor filter (MF10).

JL.

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jaroslav Lukes" <lsh.synth at seznam.cz>
> To: "'anthony'" <aankrom at bluemarble.net>
> Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] matched FETs for phaser
> 
> 
> >> From: owner-synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:owner-synth-
> >>
> >> I know it's not that hard to match FETs for use in a phaser, but I was
> >> wondering if one used two matched pairs that weren't matched to each
> >> other
> >> if you would have good results.
> >>
> >> What I mean is it seems like it would be most important to match each
> >> pair
> >> for two stages for each peak/notch. How do 2 seperate phasers connected
> >> serially controlled by the same LFO sound?
> >>
> >
> > Here are at discount sales 6 matched (ie., 6 on single chip, not matched
> > by
> > measure, but they have very small differences) transistors in single
> chip:
> > MH2009 and MH2009A
> >
> > See http://io.freehosting.cz/166.gif
> >
> > And you can buy it at http://www.mkelektro.com/index_uk.html
> >
> > Origimally, it was designed for switching apps, but at analog apps it is
> > very good too. It was used as signal switchers and mixers, VCA+VCF at
> > famous
> > construction of Dolby B compander by Jaroslav Belza etc.
> >
> >
> > Regards, JL.
> >
> >



From vjhl2000 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 31 13:43:53 2006
From: vjhl2000 at hotmail.com (Vesa Lahteenmaki)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:43:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB. Fabricators thereof. Get a gerber viewer !
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060131195437.02cc1af0@mail.all-electric.com>
Message-ID: <BAY17-F8C1EB2352126EC4D973BDD5080@phx.gbl>




>From: "Batz Goodfortune" <batzman-nr at all-electric.com>
>To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: [sdiy] PCB. Fabricators thereof.
>Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:20:42 +1030
>
>And of course, working directly from a Protel4 file would be good. None of 
>this proprietary software crap. Which is actually generic and is only 
>cosmetically different from all the other lame PCB CADs. (And can't import 
>a real PCB format.) I could generate a batch of'gerbils' but since I can't 
>be sure of what it is I'm actually generating, I don't wanna risk getting 
>back completely ass-up boards. As happened to us once at work. But that was 
>many moons ago.
>

You  should absolutely ALLWAYS use some kind of gerber viewer before sending 
gerber data out.

In the old days, lots of problems from dummy gerber code ( aperture 
definitions not included in the gerber files ), but later the extended 
RS-274X format corrected that.  Never use the old format.

I use pro level software at work, http://www.downstreamtech.com/cam350.html.
This can be downloaded , but there is a certain limit in data size for the 
free evalution mode.

I know there are many free viewers around, but I have no experience in 
these:
Viewmate:    http://www.pentalogix.com/
GC-Prevue     http://www.graphicode.com/
gerbv            http://gerbv.sourceforge.net/
etc...

With gerber viewer you can be certain that the created data is what you 
really want.

vjhl

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Search l?yt??! http://search.msn.fi


From synthusiast at gmx.net  Tue Jan 31 19:57:33 2006
From: synthusiast at gmx.net (Synthusiast)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:57:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] Weird Polysix problem, all LEDs on....help!
References: <B661BBA038195D4C9D8B2AD3599C965E1CA4A4@melserver.perform-sol.com>
Message-ID: <002301c62698$329f1a10$0100000a@m>

>Now when i power it on every LED is lit ...

Hi Brett,

I'd suggest you to follow the advice of klosmos: download the service 
manual, buy a 56K (?) resistor and perform the reset calibration.

Regards,
Martijn


From rykhaard at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 20:03:22 2006
From: rykhaard at gmail.com (Rykhaard D.A.M.I.A.N.)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:03:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Another sequencer update posted, with bugs mentioned ......
Message-ID: <b6b288a70601311103g64147c3jd80d12ae2b00b0b2@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone has any ideas on them and/or could confirm my suspicion,
could you let me know?  :)

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/design.html

Finally - after almost 2 months of design and building, this thing
WILL be finished this week. :D :D  (Finally - after wanting a
sequencer, with this functionality since 1982 - I'm absutively
thrilled! :) :D  LOL )

--
Take care,
Warmth and Peace,
Ryk

http://deathlehem.bravehost.com/damian.html - D.A.M.I.A.N.;s webpage -
Jan. 3106 update


From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue Jan 31 20:14:41 2006
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:14:41 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] PCB. Fabricators thereof. Get a gerber viewer !
In-Reply-To: <BAY17-F8C1EB2352126EC4D973BDD5080@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY17-F8C1EB2352126EC4D973BDD5080@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6F1150FB-6283-40F2-A4F4-B8619672D142@asapnet.net>

It really helps a lot if you can have a standard aperture and drill  
file.

Go from small to large, with specials at the end.

You can flash the pad file to make a solder mask, and save having all  
those +10 mil apertures.

For special pads, change only a few apertures at the end of the file.

Watch out for rectangular pads, they use a funny spec.

>


From moog at qwest.net  Tue Jan 31 21:12:16 2006
From: moog at qwest.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:12:16 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] wire storage...
Message-ID: <005801c626a2$a20baf30$0a00000a@gandalf>

One of the things I have a hard time coming up with is wire (believe it or
not).  Today, however, my local surplus place had a ton of really great wire
in every color of the rainbow for next to nothing.  So, I made a lifetime
buy, at least at my present rate, and now I have tons of this stuff around.
I thought about buying all they had but trying to store those large 5 foot
diameter wooden wire spools, much less getting them home in my beetle, would
have been problematic and difficult to hide from the wife.  I don't have any
old spools laying around that I can reuse so does anyone have any clever
solutions how to keep all the wire neat and spooled? Thanks!

 

James R. Coplin

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From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 21:30:02 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:30:02 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] DACs for Arp-style quantizer
In-Reply-To: <004301c6256f$bfe3e920$9055f442@positronium>
References: <b6b288a70601291607l7ccb2375n5f1dc59ca93f610b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <43DD9CCC.8826CB5C@prodigy.net>
	 <002c01c6255e$7a3dc5a0$9055f442@positronium>
	 <b6b288a70601292208v2e89ca9bs7e04cbe7cab74d73@mail.gmail.com>
	 <004301c6256f$bfe3e920$9055f442@positronium>
Message-ID: <87441170601311230p41eecae4je57c8c5dcede0685@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/29/06, anthony <aankrom at bluemarble.net> wrote:
> I really like the Arp-style quantizewr that uses a staircase generated from
> a DAC. The designs I've seen use 12-bit DACs but I was wondering if an 8-bit
> one wouldn't work, especially since one of the designs that I saw used only
> 8 bits anyway. I don't really care about tracking accuracy because I am
> using it to drive a v/oct flanger array that is being controlled from a
> sample & hold random source. The DACs I have seem pretty nice for this app
> actually: TLC7524 & TLC7528 (same as AD7524 & AD7528). I guess I could push
> on and try something and see. Wouldn't be out anything except time and I
> have plenty of that.
>
>

You might want to take a look at the quantizer used on the Oberheim
mini-sequencer. It's a surprisingly simple 6-bit version and uses an
R/2R DAC. 6 bits doesn't sound like a lot, but it works out to
perfectly quantize a 5 octave range. I wouldn't think you'd need the
extra bit depth unless you really needed the extended range (and even
then, 7 bits would cover just over 10 octaves), or you wanted to do
microtonal scales. I've looked at the schematics for the ARP
quantizer, and I've found the Oberheim solution to be a more elegant
(and simpler) solution.


Tim (needs more bit depth) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 22:20:49 2006
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:20:49 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] DACs for Arp-style quantizer
In-Reply-To: <4877342.1138740488622.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <4877342.1138740488622.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <87441170601311320t7cb4dbaayf43a0782dd252880@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/31/06, BrightBoy <jdec at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >You might want to take a look at the quantizer used on the Oberheim
> >mini-sequencer. It's a surprisingly simple 6-bit version and uses an
> >R/2R DAC. 6 bits doesn't sound like a lot, but it works out to
> >perfectly quantize a 5 octave range. I wouldn't think you'd need the
> >extra bit depth unless you really needed the extended range (and even
> >then, 7 bits would cover just over 10 octaves), or you wanted to do
> >microtonal scales. I've looked at the schematics for the ARP
> >quantizer, and I've found the Oberheim solution to be a more elegant
> >(and simpler) solution.
>
> I agree.  Plus extending the circuit for multiple quantizing channels is
> quite trivial.
>
> Just make sure you use some of those 0.1% resistors from Mouser in
> the DAC ladder in order to make it as accurate as possible....
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>

Good advice. Also, here's a link with a nice explanation of the
quantizer, and a link to the schemos. (watch for the word wrap on the
URL)
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.edu/diy_archive/schematics/sequencers/miniseq/

Tim (doin' the word wrap rap) Servo
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 22:22:34 2006
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:22:34 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] a small case to fit about 7 doepfer-sized modules
In-Reply-To: <854BC489-CF75-49D4-9C04-66A53E61D8F9@gmail.com>
References: <854BC489-CF75-49D4-9C04-66A53E61D8F9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80601311322l1281372cv4505d362c16893aa@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/31/06, beschaving at gmail.com <beschaving at gmail.com> wrote:
> hello everyone,

Hi!

> the following:
>
> 3U = 129 mm high (standard doepfer hight)
>
> 56 HP = 284 mm wide
>
> and approximately 120 mm deep
>

I'd look for Schroff Europak Pro rack, maybe in parts? (The parts are
relatively inexpensive.)

Best match with readily available _parts_:
height 3U,
width 63HP (Just cut it!!)
depth 175mm.

This includes sides so you'll need some sheet metal for the top/bottom
and the back.

Samppa


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue Jan 31 23:47:26 2006
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 09:47:26 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] wire storage...
References: <005801c626a2$a20baf30$0a00000a@gandalf>
Message-ID: <002801c626b8$503dc060$0a01a8c0@frostwave>

If you mean you have loose wire (ie unspooled) you could
cut it into lengths of say 10 feet & hang it over a clothes rack.
I hate cutting up wire too, but if it is for DIY synths, you won't 
need many longer pieces!

paul perry Melbourne Australia
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