From jovius at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 14:46:54 2008
From: jovius at gmail.com (jovius)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:46:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] No Bull !!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812051112320.12401@i82pc05>
References: <4D8245DC0849473C8C800B4B5B2241C5@zen2>	<2680AA4D-D405-4CD0-8031-14A3A2E46B80@suitandtieguy.com>	<F8A21457-10F9-4558-903C-DC6B1305F077@skydancer.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0812051112320.12401@i82pc05>
Message-ID: <493930CE.2050100@gmail.com>

Rainer Buchty wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Richard Wentk wrote:
>
>   
>> How many people under the age of 40 know what bass pedals do? ;)
>>     
>
> I do.
>
> Rainer (36 ;)
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   
me to jo 33  is the bass pedal the one in the middle next to the clutch 
and the accelerator :-)


From jovius at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 15:21:22 2008
From: jovius at gmail.com (jovius)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:21:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] tr808 memory loss
Message-ID: <493938E2.2090104@gmail.com>

Hi ken

Well I made a bit of a bo bo there as I got the 808 out to drop the 
switch in I had a memory recall that I had been through this before, 
years back I had a csq and I thought about talking the switch out of it 
for the 808 and I remembered stripping down and finding that it was a 
different switch, thy look very similar but the 808 has 4 legs on the 
edge like the tack switches for programming and the csq has 2 more in 
the centre, I stripped it apart I still have the base of the old switch, 
but the switch it self is a completely different design so I couldn?t 
bodge them to make a good 1. Ive bunged 1 of the tact switches from the 
16 step buttons in for the time being.so at least it works with out 
having to sync it.

so I apologies for not remembering sooner but thanks for all your help

jo



From jovius at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 15:29:30 2008
From: jovius at gmail.com (jovius)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:29:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] mc 202
Message-ID: <49393ACA.40302@gmail.com>

has any body work out which sliders fit the mc202
mine could do with a changer over
jo


From jovius at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 15:30:31 2008
From: jovius at gmail.com (jovius)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:30:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] mc202 replacement sliders 
Message-ID: <49393B07.8030602@gmail.com>

has any body work out which sliders fit the mc202
mine could do with a changer over
jo


From steve at willacy.co.uk  Fri Dec  5 18:10:11 2008
From: steve at willacy.co.uk (Steve Carter)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 17:10:11 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] No Bull !!
In-Reply-To: <493930CE.2050100@gmail.com>
References: <4D8245DC0849473C8C800B4B5B2241C5@zen2>	<2680AA4D-D405-4CD0-8031-14A3A2E46B80@suitandtieguy.com>	<F8A21457-10F9-4558-903C-DC6B1305F077@skydancer.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0812051112320.12401@i82pc05>
	<493930CE.2050100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3849BD94-5F5F-4472-A62B-515F9F933092@willacy.co.uk>

Nah, that's the joystick.
Steve

On 5 Dec 2008, at 13:46, jovius wrote:

> me to jo 33  is the bass pedal the one in the middle next to the  
> clutch and the accelerator :-)



From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Dec  5 19:23:08 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:23:08 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
Message-ID: <200812051923.mB5JN8oX014670@linux7.lan>

I have a synth project in which I need to connect some off the shelf boards together.  One of the boards has about 30 pins (0.1" spacing) in a single row while the other has several small IDC male connectors (2 rows on 5 or 6 pins, 0.1" spacing) - "male" here meaning there are metal pins inside the plastic guard/guide shell.  I've got the little crimp on headers for the IDC connectors, but I have nothing for the row of 30.

I need to connect various wires from the single row connector board to the IDC connector(s) on the other board.  It would be easiest if I could use single wires that are terminated with the female socket that will fit these pins.

I found 
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavTop=2&NavSub=395&Cat=Cable

Which _looks_ like what I want, but at almost $1.00 a wire, I'm not thrilled.  

My questions: 

1) What else are these called that I may find them elsewhere cheaper?

2) What kind of crimper and socket things would I need if I were to make these myself?

3) for the 30 pin board, could I just use something like an IDE cable and just use one row?  I know that would look pretty crappy, I'd have to separate all the wires on the cable and cut off 1/2 of them, but I think it would work.

Thanks for your help as always.



-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From jluciani at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 20:41:03 2008
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:41:03 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
In-Reply-To: <200812051923.mB5JN8oX014670@linux7.lan>
References: <200812051923.mB5JN8oX014670@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <608bfe540812051141u51ffa7barb3436cf62bc23cfc@mail.gmail.com>

Take a look at Amp (Tyco) receptacles and crimp-n-poke terminals.

Good crimp tools can get expensive. If you are only doing a few try
a low cost tool like an Amp Champ. Needle-nose pliers and a
small amount of solder can work as well.

(* jcl *)

-- 
http://www.luciani.org


From lists at studionebula.com  Fri Dec  5 21:26:51 2008
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:26:51 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
In-Reply-To: <608bfe540812051141u51ffa7barb3436cf62bc23cfc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <012c01c95717$cf385690$1102a8c0@Mariko>


> Take a look at Amp (Tyco) receptacles and crimp-n-poke terminals.
> 
> Good crimp tools can get expensive. If you are only doing a 
> few try a low cost tool like an Amp Champ. Needle-nose pliers 
> and a small amount of solder can work as well.

I'd love it if someone could point me in the direction of a specific part
series and a specific low-cost crimp tool. I tried using some needle-nose
pliers and solder to assemble what I think were Amp crimp-n-poke terminals,
although I'm quite sure that that wasn't their official name. :-) I found
that it was difficult to crimp them adequately with pliers, and that if I
soldered them they didn't latch well into the housing because the solder
would fill the teeny holes in the terminal. It was a sufficiently
frustrating experience that I gave up, and I like to think I'm reasonably
skilled with a soldering iron. 

Scott's right that a buck a wire is not an attractive price, but for the
price of the crimp tools I've seen you could buy well over 100 wires! This
seems kind of silly. I don't need an industrial-grade tool if I'm only going
to crimp a couple dozen connectors with it.

--Adam



From tom.adam at telenet.be  Fri Dec  5 21:30:27 2008
From: tom.adam at telenet.be (Tom Adam)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:30:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Blacet midi to analog clock
In-Reply-To: <C0AFF1D2005A4CE08C11B7D946A6277B@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <1C1B89D895444D2A9EF3CD318F35ACDA@LAPTOP>

I'm about to start building a midi to analog clock found on the Blacet site:
http://www.blacet.com/MSdata.html
 
I'm wondering if I should just put a 1K resistor in line with the outputs,
or should I be doing something more? Especially when using an output to
clock 3 to 4 modules.
What would be the best way to incorporate a led? Would the NPN/resistor
divider do the trick? I don't think I'm gong to put a led for all divisions,
but I was thinking on installing some, let's say /1, /6, /64 and /256. What
would you do?

Any tips appreciated...  
 
Cheers,
ToAd




From lists at studionebula.com  Fri Dec  5 21:32:24 2008
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:32:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] knob spacing
In-Reply-To: <B4E4B04A29864F2B9B115DDC1C3F50CF@legba>
Message-ID: <012d01c95718$95af6020$1102a8c0@Mariko>


> I always knock something up in CAD, then print it out onto 
> paper to scale and place real, physical, knobs on top of the print.
> 
> I think there's a lot to be said for physical prototyping.

I agree. I find it difficult to gauge sizes correctly when looking at the
screen. Last time I was trying to determine knob spacing for a module I was
working on I put the knobs on a piece of graph paper and moved 'em around to
try different spacings and arrangements.

Another technique I'm using while planning a large front panel populated by
controls mounted on several PCBs is to export a bitmap image of the PCBs
from my layout software and place those images in a CorelDraw document I'm
using to design the panel layout. That way I can verify both the placement
of the knobs and that their PCBs aren't colliding. 

--Adam
 



From clark at greatlakesmodular.com  Fri Dec  5 21:54:52 2008
From: clark at greatlakesmodular.com (Tony Clark)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:54:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
In-Reply-To: <012c01c95717$cf385690$1102a8c0@Mariko>
References: <012c01c95717$cf385690$1102a8c0@Mariko>
Message-ID: <3208.76.29.223.85.1228510492.squirrel@www.greatlakesmodular.com>

>> Take a look at Amp (Tyco) receptacles and crimp-n-poke terminals.
>
> I'd love it if someone could point me in the direction of a specific part
> series and a specific low-cost crimp tool. I tried using some needle-nose
> pliers and solder to assemble what I think were Amp crimp-n-poke
> terminals,
> although I'm quite sure that that wasn't their official name. :-)

   They are referred to as MTA connectors and come in 0.100 (MTA-100) and
0.156 (MTA-156) flavors.  There is also a similar style connector by
Panduit, but you probably won't find them at most electronic retailers.
   While I use the MTA connectors quite heavily, I have not (as yet)
purchased one of the dedicated tools.  I find for just a few wires that
a small jeweler's screwdriver can be used to punch down wires into the
grooves.
   The trick here, and also if you plan to solder directly, is to first
pre-mount the connector.  This will stabilize the contact points and
also prevent excess solder from getting into places it shouldn't.

   The MTA connectors are great for stacking across in a straight line.
So if you do have literally 30 contact points, you can easily use 5
6-pin connectors (or any other combination) to fill up the line.

   Hope that helps,

   Tony

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                         Great Lakes Modular

        Custom Design, Engineering, and Manufacturing Services
                      www.greatlakesmodular.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Dec  5 22:13:40 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:13:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
Message-ID: <200812052213.mB5MDe9B008293@linux7.lan>

"John Luciani" <jluciani at gmail.com> wrote:
>Take a look at Amp (Tyco) receptacles and crimp-n-poke terminals.
>
>Good crimp tools can get expensive. If you are only doing a few try
>a low cost tool like an Amp Champ. Needle-nose pliers and a
>small amount of solder can work as well.

Ok, thank you (all).  "crimp-n-poke" helped, that's what I need.  I need to look
for the plastic header shells for those, but that should be easy.  Then I can
crimp on the IDC connectors for one end (of a piece of ribbon cable) and the
crimp-n-poke on the other end after splaying the ribbon cable into individual
wires...

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From jluciani at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 22:22:05 2008
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 16:22:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
In-Reply-To: <012c01c95717$cf385690$1102a8c0@Mariko>
References: <608bfe540812051141u51ffa7barb3436cf62bc23cfc@mail.gmail.com>
	<012c01c95717$cf385690$1102a8c0@Mariko>
Message-ID: <608bfe540812051322t8c36c2etbc67d441d91f765d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Adam Schabtach <lists at studionebula.com> wrote:
>
>> Take a look at Amp (Tyco) receptacles and crimp-n-poke terminals.
>>
>> Good crimp tools can get expensive. If you are only doing a
>> few try a low cost tool like an Amp Champ. Needle-nose pliers
>> and a small amount of solder can work as well.
>
> I'd love it if someone could point me in the direction of a specific part
> series and a specific low-cost crimp tool.

For 100mil spacing headers look at the AMPMODU series. Download
the complete datasheet and you will find the various terminal options
and tools. The AMP datasheets and drawings are excellent.

In the AMP documentation some of the terminals are
called "Crimp and Poke" others are called "Crimp Snap-in".
I refer to all of these terminals that  you crimp and then poke
into the receptacle as crimp-n-poke.

> I found
> that it was difficult to crimp them adequately with pliers, and that if I
> soldered them they didn't latch well into the housing because the solder
> would fill the teeny holes in the terminal. It was a sufficiently
> frustrating experience that I gave up, and I like to think I'm reasonably
> skilled with a soldering iron.
>
> Scott's right that a buck a wire is not an attractive price, but for the
> price of the crimp tools I've seen you could buy well over 100 wires! This
> seems kind of silly. I don't need an industrial-grade tool if I'm only going
> to crimp a couple dozen connectors with it.

I have a tool from AMP labeled "Service Tool I" that looks like it could crimp
these terminals. It is a low-cost tool that is similar to the "Amp Champ".
I have never used it for crimping since I have the crimp tool.

(* jcl *)


-- 
http://www.luciani.org


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Fri Dec  5 22:43:46 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:43:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] dsPIC
In-Reply-To: <1C7A7073-295F-47BE-987B-5D14D0931745@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <161704.98832.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Since dsPIC so cheap and quite powerfull why do anything in analog?
One could do a complete 3 osc synth in a euro module with one of these!
Take 10 and get polyphony! Take 100 and then die of boredom! :)

Im a bit pussled, they are indeed powerful now since
the got both codec interface and 16bit converters on chip!

KD


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Dec  5 23:02:53 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:02:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
In-Reply-To: <3208.76.29.223.85.1228510492.squirrel@www.greatlakesmodular.com>
References: <012c01c95717$cf385690$1102a8c0@Mariko>
	<3208.76.29.223.85.1228510492.squirrel@www.greatlakesmodular.com>
Message-ID: <518E875F-E41A-4201-B285-3D785D390F6E@blueyonder.co.uk>

Tony,

On 5 Dec 2008, at 20:54, Tony Clark wrote:

>>> Take a look at Amp (Tyco) receptacles and crimp-n-poke terminals.
>>
>> I'd love it if someone could point me in the direction of a  
>> specific part
>> series and a specific low-cost crimp tool. I tried using some  
>> needle-nose
>> pliers and solder to assemble what I think were Amp crimp-n-poke
>> terminals,
>> although I'm quite sure that that wasn't their official name. :-)
>
>   They are referred to as MTA connectors and come in 0.100 (MTA-100)  
> and
> 0.156 (MTA-156) flavors.  There is also a similar style connector by
> Panduit, but you probably won't find them at most electronic  
> retailers.

And Molex do similar parts.

Graham




From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Fri Dec  5 23:42:39 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:42:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
In-Reply-To: <200812051923.mB5JN8oX014670@linux7.lan>
References: <200812051923.mB5JN8oX014670@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <4939AE5F.7000806@xs4all.nl>

Scott Gravenhorst schreef:
> I have a synth project in which I need to connect some off the shelf boards together.  One of the boards has about 30 pins (0.1" spacing) in a single row while the other has several small IDC male connectors (2 rows on 5 or 6 pins, 0.1" spacing) - "male" here meaning there are metal pins inside the plastic guard/guide shell.  I've got the little crimp on headers for the IDC connectors, but I have nothing for the row of 30.
>
>   
Just for the one project?

I would use something like this:
http://nl.farnell.com/fischer-elektronik/bl1-36z/header-socket-2-54mm-36way/dp/9728856
and if they can be made to fit on those IDC connectors, after having 
been cut to size, 
http://nl.farnell.com/fischer-elektronik/bl2-72z/header-socket-2-54mm-72way/dp/9728872

Solder the wires on the pins of these headers, use heatshrink tube on 
each soldered wire.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Fri Dec  5 23:48:25 2008
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:48:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] dsPIC
In-Reply-To: <161704.98832.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <161704.98832.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4939AFB9.7020505@cox.net>

karl dalen wrote:
> Since dsPIC so cheap and quite powerfull why do anything in analog?
> One could do a complete 3 osc synth in a euro module with one of these!
> Take 10 and get polyphony! Take 100 and then die of boredom! :)
> 
> Im a bit pussled, they are indeed powerful now since
> the got both codec interface and 16bit converters on chip!

Main reason is that it's really _hard_ to get some kinds of 'analogy' 
behavior out of a DSP. You certainly can do several oscillators in an 
inexpensive dsPIC, but as Antti has pointed out elsewhere, the 
anti-aliasing functions you need to approximate the sound of a good 
analog VCO gets pretty complex.

Bottom line: If you need the sound of an analog VCO (or filter, etc), 
we're not yet quite to the point where you can discard the actual analog 
circuits and replace them with a $3 DSP. Even when we do get silicon 
that cheap, knowing enough signal processing to take advantage of it may 
remain a barrier until the code is freely available and anyone can put 
an analog modeling synth together out of code from teh intarwebs.

Until then, dsPICs are great for folks who want to try things you 
_can't_ do more easily in analog.

Eric


From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Sat Dec  6 00:15:17 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:15:17 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
Message-ID: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>

Ladies and Gents,

   Neil has confirmed that we have July the 17th, 2009 for our next  
Synth DIY UK gathering.
more details will be forthcoming in the next month or so.

   I'd like to put an an appeal for donations of prizes for the  
raffle, as we plan to restart this year. all money raised from the  
raffle money will goto charity.

   It's also been suggested that we see if we can get the original  
five people, from the first meeting in 1999, there again.

   These are ;-

Tony Allgood
Colin Fraser
David Peachey
Chris Crosskey
and yours truly.

(http://diy.synth.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=256)

   We're looking at what to do as a special treat as this is the tenth  
anniversary of SynthDIY-UK. Sadly, we've been told we cannot have the  
auditorium that is part of robinson college for a gig.

   It's been suggested that we might try and get a gig or short set,  
from a couple of our regulars (Gert Van-Santen from waveworld and Paul  
Nagle), in the hall we hold the main event. we'll be speaking with  
Paul and Gert and also guaging the amount of space we have available  
for a gig.

   I would also like to request that everyone who is bringing  
something to show bare in mind a couple of things ;-

1) Space is limited, so please try and let us know what you're  
bringing so we can be sure to have room for you

2) Power is EXTREMELY limited, so please no 2Kw PA for demoing your  
synth

3) If you plan to bring a PA, please let us know and we'd ask that you  
be willing to share it with fellow DIYers as PA resources are also  
limited.

4) As with 2008's event, I would like only synths you have built or  
heavily modified in the main room. There is a smaller room off to one  
side, which can be used for commercial synths/sequencers and for  
jamming.

   Room booking will be up online in the next month or two, Neil will  
post a message when it's up and ready to use.

  If you have any questions, or would like to donate a prize, please  
contact me off list.

  We look forward to seeing you in July!

Paul




From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec  6 00:26:25 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:26:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] dsPIC
In-Reply-To: <4939AFB9.7020505@cox.net>
Message-ID: <493857.93736.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>




--- Den l?r 2008-12-06 skrev Eric Brombaugh <ebrombaugh1 at cox.net>:

> Fr?n: Eric Brombaugh <ebrombaugh1 at cox.net>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] dsPIC
> Till: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Datum: l?rdag 6 december 2008 03.18
> karl dalen wrote:
> > Since dsPIC so cheap and quite powerfull why do
> anything in analog?
> > One could do a complete 3 osc synth in a euro module
> with one of these!
> > Take 10 and get polyphony! Take 100 and then die of
> boredom! :)
> > 
> > Im a bit pussled, they are indeed powerful now since
> > the got both codec interface and 16bit converters on
> chip!
> 
> Main reason is that it's really _hard_ to get some
> kinds of 'analogy' behavior out of a DSP. You
> certainly can do several oscillators in an inexpensive
> dsPIC, but as Antti has pointed out elsewhere, the
> anti-aliasing functions you need to approximate the sound of
> a good analog VCO gets pretty complex.

Yes i now, i just got a sudden flash of,why analog? kind of,
analog is boring, why exponetial converter? when i can do a
wavetable osc! Kind of sudden, oh analog boring yes, no,
work go digital zombilike responce.

> 
> Bottom line: If you need the sound of an analog VCO (or
> filter, etc), we're not yet quite to the point where you
> can discard the actual analog circuits and replace them with
> a $3 DSP. Even when we do get silicon that cheap, knowing
> enough signal processing to take advantage of it may remain
> a barrier until the code is freely available and anyone can
> put an analog modeling synth together out of code from teh
> intarwebs.

Im looking into some ICDs for the dspic GP802, there are loads of demo packages from everyone, wich do you use? I rater do my own ISP, ICD
but most seams to be based on a F877 as middle man, no real JTAG
as on Cortex M3, PC P-port to JTAG + buffer and thats it, then go full blown debugg, dsPIC no? hassle much stress program to dsPIC get easily
bored and sentence building goes banana in massage!!??!!

So, ideas? This pain in arse? No? Full debugg or only demo hello world? 
http://se.farnell.com/microchip/dm330011/kit-starter-mplab-for-dspic/dp/1621788

KD   


 
> Until then, dsPICs are great for folks who want to try
> things you _can't_ do more easily in analog.
> 
> Eric
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      __________________________________________________________
G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling. 
S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec  6 00:29:20 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:29:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: SV: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>
Message-ID: <36273.95409.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Paul!

What happend with that big poly machine some of you foklks intended to do?
I dont remeber the gentlemns name who was i charge of the design?
KD

--- Den l?r 2008-12-06 skrev Paul Maddox <paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net>:

> Fr?n: Paul Maddox <paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net>


      ___________________________________________________
S?k efter k?rleken!
Hitta din tvillingsj?l p? Yahoo! Dejting: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;185753627;24584539;x?http://se.meetic.yahoo.net/index.php?mtcmk=148783



From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Sat Dec  6 00:37:14 2008
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:37:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] dsPIC
In-Reply-To: <493857.93736.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <493857.93736.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4939BB2A.4040703@cox.net>

karl dalen wrote:
> Im looking into some ICDs for the dspic GP802, there are loads of demo packages from everyone, wich do you use? I rater do my own ISP, ICD
> but most seams to be based on a F877 as middle man, no real JTAG
> as on Cortex M3, PC P-port to JTAG + buffer and thats it, then go full blown debugg, dsPIC no? hassle much stress program to dsPIC get easily
> bored and sentence building goes banana in massage!!??!!
> 
> So, ideas? This pain in arse? No? Full debugg or only demo hello world? 
> http://se.farnell.com/microchip/dm330011/kit-starter-mplab-for-dspic/dp/1621788

I've been using the true-blue Microchip ICD2 (hey - kinda rhymes!) 
lately. I tried the Olimex ICD2 knockoff a few years ago, but switched 
when I found that it couldn't talk to the 3.3V dsPICs reliably. It was a 
few $$ cheaper, but somewhat 'raw'. I've got no idea what other sorts of 
low-end interfaces there are these days.

The main concern I'd have with non-Microchip programmer/debugger 
interfaces is that they might not work well with the MPLAB development 
environment. With a genuine ICD2 you can download code to flash as well 
as run/stop/single-step & examine internal registers. No idea if that's 
possible with other interfaces.

You've touched on a big difference there - unlike ARM, there really are 
not any alternatives for development tools in the MCHP world. Since they 
give the most of the software away though and the hardware is fairly 
reasonably priced it's not a huge disadvantage.

Eric




From J.L.Marshall at comcast.net  Sat Dec  6 01:04:12 2008
From: J.L.Marshall at comcast.net (J.L.Marshall at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:04:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
Message-ID: <120620080004.25701.4939C17C000086D000006465220922992704040E089C9D0EB3D2B4D2B6@comcast.net>

Better than a drill for panel applications is an old Roper-Whitney #17 punch press. They are available cheap used.

Step drills make clean well centered holes.

A solid core door on cabinets makes a good work bench. If you like, cover the door with Masonite.

--
Take care,
John

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> 
> well it is almost the holiday time!
> my wife wants a list as do other family members.
> 
> so i was wondering about some good, but not too expensive items for SDIY:
> 
> 1.as always...looking for MORE MORE MORE good electronics books.
> i have all the standards (electronotes, cmos and ttl , filter and opamp 
> cookbooks,) but am ALWAYS trying to find some more (often older titles on analog 
> stuff) interesting books to buy on amazon. recently got art of electronics and 
> intuitive IC opamps. but i want more!
> 
> 2. looking for a place (that will ship) to buy a BENCH (wood)
> 
> 3. a good cheap drill press
> 
> 4. A GOOD soldering iron (with temp control,etc)
> 
> 5. A good SET of  drill bits (any recommendations?)
> 
> 
> 6. ANY Other good electronics work gifts i have forgotten. 
> 
> 
> 
> last year i got a dremel, a good set of wirecutters and a few screwdrivers. and 
> i bought myself a scope.
> 
> what are YOU guys asking for???
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
> 
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sat Dec  6 01:14:39 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:14:39 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] dsPIC
In-Reply-To: <4939BB2A.4040703@cox.net>
References: <493857.93736.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<4939BB2A.4040703@cox.net>
Message-ID: <595CFD3A-3902-4BD6-A6E7-BAA599870485@electricdruid.net>


On 5 Dec 2008, at 23:37, Eric Brombaugh wrote:

> karl dalen wrote:
>> Im looking into some ICDs for the dspic GP802, there are loads of  
>> demo packages from everyone, wich do you use? I rater do my own  
>> ISP, ICD
>> but most seams to be based on a F877 as middle man, no real JTAG
>> as on Cortex M3, PC P-port to JTAG + buffer and thats it, then go  
>> full blown debugg, dsPIC no? hassle much stress program to dsPIC  
>> get easily
>> bored and sentence building goes banana in massage!!??!!
>> So, ideas? This pain in arse? No? Full debugg or only demo hello  
>> world? http://se.farnell.com/microchip/dm330011/kit-starter-mplab- 
>> for-dspic/dp/1621788
>
> I've been using the true-blue Microchip ICD2 (hey - kinda rhymes!)  
> lately. I tried the Olimex ICD2 knockoff a few years ago, but  
> switched when I found that it couldn't talk to the 3.3V dsPICs  
> reliably. It was a few $$ cheaper, but somewhat 'raw'. I've got no  
> idea what other sorts of low-end interfaces there are these days.
>
> The main concern I'd have with non-Microchip programmer/debugger  
> interfaces is that they might not work well with the MPLAB  
> development environment. With a genuine ICD2 you can download code  
> to flash as well as run/stop/single-step & examine internal  
> registers. No idea if that's possible with other interfaces.

I use ICD2 too, but mine is a far-eastern knockoff, not a microchip  
original. That said, I've never had a problem with it, and it talks  
to 3.3V chips fine, and downloads code. I've never tried single  
stepping and examining internal registers.

> You've touched on a big difference there - unlike ARM, there really  
> are not any alternatives for development tools in the MCHP world.  
> Since they give the most of the software away though and the  
> hardware is fairly reasonably priced it's not a huge disadvantage.

I have a lot of fun with a ?40 clone ICD2 and a breadboard with a ?5  
chip on. It isn't expensive.

T.





From jgrisso at det3.net  Sat Dec  6 01:38:12 2008
From: jgrisso at det3.net (Joe Grisso)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 17:38:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W327B709CBC63F4A2B2C6CEC8020@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W327B709CBC63F4A2B2C6CEC8020@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <864ec6740812051638u59428ce2mf88dd4d51b5a06@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:35 AM, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> well it is almost the holiday time!
> my wife wants a list as do other family members.
>
> so i was wondering about some good, but not too expensive items for SDIY:
>
> 1.as always...looking for MORE MORE MORE good electronics books.

I'll plug my list as a good start to a library:

http://labs.det3.net/diy/synthbook.html

Also, if anyone has suggestions on books to add, contact me!

-- 
Joe Grisso
Detachment 3 Engineering


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  6 01:44:21 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:44:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
In-Reply-To: <120620080004.25701.4939C17C000086D000006465220922992704040E089C9D0EB3D2B4D2B6@comcast.net>
References: <120620080004.25701.4939C17C000086D000006465220922992704040E089C9D0EB3D2B4D2B6@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W3449DF49DAC43BEE2BEA74C8FF0@phx.gbl>


i would love to know more about a punch press....are they easy to use/small enough to fit in a small room?

thanks for the ideas everyone!!



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 




> From: J.L.Marshall at comcast.net
> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:04:12 +0000
> 
> Better than a drill for panel applications is an old Roper-Whitney #17 punch press. They are available cheap used.
> 
> Step drills make clean well centered holes.
> 
> A solid core door on cabinets makes a good work bench. If you like, cover the door with Masonite.
> 
> --
> Take care,
> John
> 
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Dan Snazelle 
>> 
>> well it is almost the holiday time!
>> my wife wants a list as do other family members.
>> 
>> so i was wondering about some good, but not too expensive items for SDIY:
>> 
>> 1.as always...looking for MORE MORE MORE good electronics books.
>> i have all the standards (electronotes, cmos and ttl , filter and opamp 
>> cookbooks,) but am ALWAYS trying to find some more (often older titles on analog 
>> stuff) interesting books to buy on amazon. recently got art of electronics and 
>> intuitive IC opamps. but i want more!
>> 
>> 2. looking for a place (that will ship) to buy a BENCH (wood)
>> 
>> 3. a good cheap drill press
>> 
>> 4. A GOOD soldering iron (with temp control,etc)
>> 
>> 5. A good SET of  drill bits (any recommendations?)
>> 
>> 
>> 6. ANY Other good electronics work gifts i have forgotten. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> last year i got a dremel, a good set of wirecutters and a few screwdrivers. and 
>> i bought myself a scope.
>> 
>> what are YOU guys asking for???
>> 
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------
>> check out various dan music at:
>> 
>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Sat Dec  6 02:39:12 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:39:12 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
In-Reply-To: <200812051923.mB5JN8oX014670@linux7.lan>
References: <200812051923.mB5JN8oX014670@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <004101c95743$7222fa10$a700000a@HeapSimLapTop>

Check out a site on the web called "Hansen's Hobbies".  He sells the type of
connectors you are looking for, cheap. 


David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C.  V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"

The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Scott Gravenhorst
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:23 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors

I have a synth project in which I need to connect some off the shelf boards
together.  One of the boards has about 30 pins (0.1" spacing) in a single
row while the other has several small IDC male connectors (2 rows on 5 or 6
pins, 0.1" spacing) - "male" here meaning there are metal pins inside the
plastic guard/guide shell.  I've got the little crimp on headers for the IDC
connectors, but I have nothing for the row of 30.

I need to connect various wires from the single row connector board to the
IDC connector(s) on the other board.  It would be easiest if I could use
single wires that are terminated with the female socket that will fit these
pins.

I found 
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavTop=2&NavSub=395&Cat=Cabl
e

Which _looks_ like what I want, but at almost $1.00 a wire, I'm not
thrilled.  

My questions: 

1) What else are these called that I may find them elsewhere cheaper?

2) What kind of crimper and socket things would I need if I were to make
these myself?

3) for the 30 pin board, could I just use something like an IDE cable and
just use one row?  I know that would look pretty crappy, I'd have to
separate all the wires on the cable and cut off 1/2 of them, but I think it
would work.

Thanks for your help as always.



-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From lists at studionebula.com  Sat Dec  6 03:13:00 2008
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 19:13:00 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Connectors
In-Reply-To: <004101c95743$7222fa10$a700000a@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <017101c95748$2a9094f0$1102a8c0@Mariko>

Aha! Thanks, David, that site is a winner. URL is:
http://www.hansenhobbies.com/
See the PDF at
http://www.hansenhobbies.com/products/connectors/Connectors.pdf for a good
description of the two low-cost crimp tools he sells and how to use them.

--Adam

> Check out a site on the web called "Hansen's Hobbies".  He 
> sells the type of connectors you are looking for, cheap. 
> 
> 
> David G. Dixon



From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Sat Dec  6 04:28:25 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:28:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] tr808 memory loss
In-Reply-To: <493938E2.2090104@gmail.com>
References: <493938E2.2090104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812051928q7a627884g7cbe27400b84c782@mail.gmail.com>

Jovius,

I started thinking that we should have had you open up the 808 first
and confirm it used the same kind of switch.  Damn Roland.  It's the
same era gear with the same style of controls, so you'd think they'd
be consistent in their parts use.  I had to recently open up my Roland
MC-4 Microcomposer expecting to find the same kind of switches as the
CSQ, but they're different (have 4 legs).  They're also worse.  All
the CSQ switches work fine after all these years, but almost all of
the MC-4 switches have gone bad (another casualty of this crappy east
coast environment).  I don't know if the switches in the MC-4 are the
same as the 808.  The MC-4 switches say Amp on them, but I wasn't able
to find any new Amp switches that matched.  Maybe somebody else knows
more about possible replacements.

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 9:21 AM, jovius <jovius at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi ken
>
> Well I made a bit of a bo bo there as I got the 808 out to drop the switch
> in I had a memory recall that I had been through this before, years back I
> had a csq and I thought about talking the switch out of it for the 808 and I
> remembered stripping down and finding that it was a different switch, thy
> look very similar but the 808 has 4 legs on the edge like the tack switches
> for programming and the csq has 2 more in the centre, I stripped it apart I
> still have the base of the old switch, but the switch it self is a
> completely different design so I couldn't bodge them to make a good 1. Ive
> bunged 1 of the tact switches from the 16 step buttons in for the time
> being.so at least it works with out having to sync it.
>
> so I apologies for not remembering sooner but thanks for all your help
>
> jo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Sat Dec  6 09:42:23 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:42:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Dimensi*n D emulation PCB project status
In-Reply-To: <C99EB23683994728911ECB7216C9514C@jhsilent>
References: <C99EB23683994728911ECB7216C9514C@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <20081206084222.GA3532@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-11-24 20:49 +0100, JH. wrote:

> But pre-orders come in slowly - in fact more slowly than for any
> previous project. [...] maybe word has got around that I'm
> normally making more PCBs than I have on pre-order, and people
> are speculating that they might decide on buying a set of PCBs
> later.

We wouldn't do that to you. :-) Thing is, it takes some thinking
to weigh our options. For instance...

To use the Tau pipe phaser board with the Subtle chorus main
board, you wrote that we need to "omit some components". Is it
possible to build Tau boards so that they can be used standalone
or slaved to a main board, depending on normalling jacks and/or
switches ?

(If that matters, I don't need balanced I/O. My setup is almost
entirely unbalanced anyway.)

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Sat Dec  6 10:07:35 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:07:35 +0000
Subject: SV: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <36273.95409.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <36273.95409.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1D7D09CF-C52D-4ABF-8646-0A97341D5222@synth.net>

Karl,

  you've lost me there.

I'm currently working on Defender (and a little on GorF) which will be  
a polysynth.
I was working on QiX which was basically an updated Chameleon (www.chameleon.synth.net 
) but with the economy being what it is myself and the other guys  
involved don't have the money to invest, so we've put it on the back  
burner for a while.

Paul

On 5 Dec 2008, at 23:29, karl dalen wrote:

> Paul!
>
> What happend with that big poly machine some of you foklks intended  
> to do?
> I dont remeber the gentlemns name who was i charge of the design?
> KD
>
> --- Den l?r 2008-12-06 skrev Paul Maddox <paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net 
> >:
>
>> Fr?n: Paul Maddox <paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net>
>
>
>      ___________________________________________________
> S?k efter k?rleken!
> Hitta din tvillingsj?l p? Yahoo! Dejting: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;185753627;24584539;x?http://se.meetic.yahoo.net/index.php 
> ?mtcmk=148783
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From czvekan at gmail.com  Sat Dec  6 10:32:36 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 10:32:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] dsPIC
In-Reply-To: <595CFD3A-3902-4BD6-A6E7-BAA599870485@electricdruid.net>
References: <493857.93736.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<4939BB2A.4040703@cox.net>
	<595CFD3A-3902-4BD6-A6E7-BAA599870485@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <401CAE9C-87D4-4B90-8619-63230A0F4D4F@gmail.com>


On Dec 6, 2008, at 1:14 AM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

>
> On 5 Dec 2008, at 23:37, Eric Brombaugh wrote:
>
>> karl dalen wrote:
>>> Im looking into some ICDs for the dspic GP802, there are loads of  
>>> demo packages from everyone, wich do you use? I rater do my own  
>>> ISP, ICD
>>> but most seams to be based on a F877 as middle man, no real JTAG
>>> as on Cortex M3, PC P-port to JTAG + buffer and thats it, then go  
>>> full blown debugg, dsPIC no? hassle much stress program to dsPIC  
>>> get easily
>>> bored and sentence building goes banana in massage!!??!!
>>> So, ideas? This pain in arse? No? Full debugg or only demo hello  
>>> world? http://se.farnell.com/microchip/dm330011/kit-starter-mplab-for-dspic/dp/1621788
>>
>> I've been using the true-blue Microchip ICD2 (hey - kinda rhymes!)  
>> lately. I tried the Olimex ICD2 knockoff a few years ago, but  
>> switched when I found that it couldn't talk to the 3.3V dsPICs  
>> reliably. It was a few $$ cheaper, but somewhat 'raw'. I've got no  
>> idea what other sorts of low-end interfaces there are these days.
>>
>> The main concern I'd have with non-Microchip programmer/debugger  
>> interfaces is that they might not work well with the MPLAB  
>> development environment. With a genuine ICD2 you can download code  
>> to flash as well as run/stop/single-step & examine internal  
>> registers. No idea if that's possible with other interfaces.
>>
>
> I use ICD2 too, but mine is a far-eastern knockoff, not a microchip  
> original. That said, I've never had a problem with it, and it talks  
> to 3.3V chips fine, and downloads code. I've never tried single  
> stepping and examining internal registers.
>
All though I have a original Microchip ICD2 Programmer/Debugger that  
came with my dsPICDEM 1 board I hardly ever use it. Instead I use a  
PICKIT2 clone for 39$ made in China. The reason is that I hardly  
debug  .I upload the fresh code and see how things work. Not sure if  
that is the professional approach though. :)
But I like to se it working before I continue with my code. Then again  
I sometimes simulate calculations.
If I am really stuck with my code and want to supervise some values I  
simply hook up my two wire Interface and display things and values on  
my LCD.

http://www.csaba.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=30

It even works on low pin PICs with little memory.(there is also a  
ATMEL version of the same thing I wrote in C)
You see the thing is RJ11 modular jacks are rather expensive compared  
to the cheapo 6 pin headers. I know I could make a little converter  
but haven't got the time for it yet :) .

>> You've touched on a big difference there - unlike ARM, there really  
>> are not any alternatives for development tools in the MCHP world.  
>> Since they give the most of the software away though and the  
>> hardware is fairly reasonably priced it's not a huge disadvantage.
>
> I have a lot of fun with a ?40 clone ICD2 and a breadboard with a ?5  
> chip on. It isn't expensive.
I totally agree.

Csaba
>
>
> T.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat Dec  6 10:59:30 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 10:59:30 +0100
Subject: [motm] Re: [sdiy] Dimensi*n D emulation PCB project status
References: <C99EB23683994728911ECB7216C9514C@jhsilent>
	<20081206084222.GA3532@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <B473C8EF338D4C1D9E6FE9EF1D4E51E3@jhsilent>

>To use the Tau pipe phaser board with the Subtle chorus main
>board, you wrote that we need to "omit some components". Is it
>possible to build Tau boards so that they can be used standalone
>or slaved to a main board, depending on normalling jacks and/or
>switches ?

Yes, and you don't have to omit any components.
Basically, you just run two Tau Boards without resonance and without wet/dry 
mix (i. e. in Vibrato mode) and connect this to the Main Board (where th 
efiltering and cross-mixing takes place).
It will even be possible to make a send-return loop in a Dim D version, and 
connect two external standalone Tau boxes.


>(If that matters, I don't need balanced I/O. My setup is almost
>entirely unbalanced anyway.)

Same here. And I don't really need to drive 600 Ohms either.
Just bring out the noninverted outputs to 1/4" jacks and leave the inverted 
outputs unconnected.
(That's what I'm currently building in my prototype.)

JH.




From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat Dec  6 11:04:36 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:04:36 +0100
Subject: Re(2): [sdiy] Dimensi*n D emulation PCB project status
References: <C99EB23683994728911ECB7216C9514C@jhsilent>
	<20081206084222.GA3532@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3B6D87761AA34CFE96C3B522FDC1D956@jhsilent>

>> But pre-orders come in slowly - in fact more slowly than for any
>> previous project. [...] maybe word has got around that I'm
>> normally making more PCBs than I have on pre-order, and people
>> are speculating that they might decide on buying a set of PCBs
>> later.
>
>We wouldn't do that to you. :-)

Oh, and I should add:

I have placed an order at the PCB factory meanwhile, and pre-orders *did* 
come in after my somewhat urgent mail, and meanwhile I have all reason to 
believe that this is goint to become another "big one" that will be sold-out 
after a while. :)

JH.



From oakleylist at btinternet.com  Sat Dec  6 11:41:25 2008
From: oakleylist at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:41:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <1D7D09CF-C52D-4ABF-8646-0A97341D5222@synth.net>
References: <36273.95409.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<1D7D09CF-C52D-4ABF-8646-0A97341D5222@synth.net>
Message-ID: <493A56D5.2060304@btinternet.com>

 > What happend with that big poly machine some of you foklks intended 
to do?

That would be George Hearns. Very impressive surface mounted modules. It 
was mono only for the last do, but the potential is there for more voices.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From oakleylist at btinternet.com  Sat Dec  6 11:44:45 2008
From: oakleylist at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:44:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>
References: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>
Message-ID: <493A579D.5080102@btinternet.com>

 > It's also been suggested that we see if we can get the original five 
people, from the first meeting in 1999, there again.

I'm sure I'll be there. Although thinking about July when there is three 
inches of snow on the ground is rather difficult. ;-)

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From J.L.Marshall at comcast.net  Sat Dec  6 16:05:26 2008
From: J.L.Marshall at comcast.net (J.L.Marshall at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:05:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
Message-ID: <120620081505.21113.493A94B600044F8100005279220073483004040E089C9D0EB3D2B4D2B6@comcast.net>

I mounted my Roper-Whitney #17 on a three foot length of 2x8". When I use it, I clamp it onto a Workmate. When it is not in use, it hides in a closet. I'm guessing that it might weigh 30 lbs. It easily pokes holes through 0.071" 6061-T6 aluminum.

Whitney is probably most famous for the No. 5 Jr kit. There are Asian copies for less than $20. See Harborfreight.com

Visit www.roperwhitney.com. I found a tool distributor in Woodinville, WA that had a whole warehouse full of great old machines; hydraulic presses, flywheel presses, shears, brakes,....drool.

--
Take care,
John

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> 
> i would love to know more about a punch press....are they easy to use/small 
> enough to fit in a small room?
> 
> thanks for the ideas everyone!!
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
> 
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: J.L.Marshall at comcast.net
> > To: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
> > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:04:12 +0000
> > 
> > Better than a drill for panel applications is an old Roper-Whitney #17 punch 
> press. They are available cheap used.
> > 
> > Step drills make clean well centered holes.
> > 
> > A solid core door on cabinets makes a good work bench. If you like, cover the 
> door with Masonite.
> > 
> > --
> > Take care,
> > John
> > 
> >  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > From: Dan Snazelle 
> >> 
> >> well it is almost the holiday time!
> >> my wife wants a list as do other family members.
> >> 
> >> so i was wondering about some good, but not too expensive items for SDIY:
> >> 
> >> 1.as always...looking for MORE MORE MORE good electronics books.
> >> i have all the standards (electronotes, cmos and ttl , filter and opamp 
> >> cookbooks,) but am ALWAYS trying to find some more (often older titles on 
> analog 
> >> stuff) interesting books to buy on amazon. recently got art of electronics 
> and 
> >> intuitive IC opamps. but i want more!
> >> 
> >> 2. looking for a place (that will ship) to buy a BENCH (wood)
> >> 
> >> 3. a good cheap drill press
> >> 
> >> 4. A GOOD soldering iron (with temp control,etc)
> >> 
> >> 5. A good SET of  drill bits (any recommendations?)
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 6. ANY Other good electronics work gifts i have forgotten. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> last year i got a dremel, a good set of wirecutters and a few screwdrivers. 
> and 
> >> i bought myself a scope.
> >> 
> >> what are YOU guys asking for???
> >> 
> >> 
> >> thanks
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --------------------------------------------
> >> check out various dan music at:
> >> 
> >> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
> >> 
> >> 
> >> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> >> 
> >> 
> >> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> >> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > 



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Dec  6 17:00:57 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:00:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] dsPIC
In-Reply-To: <4939BB2A.4040703@cox.net>
References: <493857.93736.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<4939BB2A.4040703@cox.net>
Message-ID: <493AA1B9.6000200@burnit.co.uk>

Eric Brombaugh wrote:
> karl dalen wrote:
>> Im looking into some ICDs for the dspic GP802, there are loads of 
>> demo packages from everyone, wich do you use? I rater do my own ISP, ICD
>> but most seams to be based on a F877 as middle man, no real JTAG
>> as on Cortex M3, PC P-port to JTAG + buffer and thats it, then go 
>> full blown debugg, dsPIC no? hassle much stress program to dsPIC get 
>> easily
>> bored and sentence building goes banana in massage!!??!!
>>
>> So, ideas? This pain in arse? No? Full debugg or only demo hello 
>> world? 
>> http://se.farnell.com/microchip/dm330011/kit-starter-mplab-for-dspic/dp/1621788 
>>
>
> I've been using the true-blue Microchip ICD2 (hey - kinda rhymes!) 
> lately. I tried the Olimex ICD2 knockoff a few years ago, but switched 
> when I found that it couldn't talk to the 3.3V dsPICs reliably. It was 
> a few $$ cheaper, but somewhat 'raw'. I've got no idea what other 
> sorts of low-end interfaces there are these days.
>
> The main concern I'd have with non-Microchip programmer/debugger 
> interfaces is that they might not work well with the MPLAB development 
> environment. With a genuine ICD2 you can download code to flash as 
> well as run/stop/single-step & examine internal registers. No idea if 
> that's possible with other interfaces.
>

Which Olimex model did you have Eric?  I use the "PIC-ICD2" model (the 
one with both USB and RS232 interfaces) and have found it very reliable 
and fully compatible with flash updates from MPLAB.

I haven't yet tried it with any 3.3V dsPICs, but from the Olimex website 
it looks like it should be ok (says 2.0 to 6.0 range).  They do state 
that their PIC-ICD2-TINY model is not ok with newer PICs that require 
<12.5V for Vpp.

Seb





From flight at flightofharmony.com  Sat Dec  6 18:36:58 2008
From: flight at flightofharmony.com (flightofharmony)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:36:58 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
In-Reply-To: <120620081505.21113.493A94B600044F8100005279220073483004040E089C9D0EB3D2B4D2B6@comcast.net>
References: <120620081505.21113.493A94B600044F8100005279220073483004040E089C9D0EB3D2B4D2B6@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001201c957c9$3dd7ddd0$b9879970$@com>

Here's some links to go with John's recommendation:
The store in Woodinville: Benoit Sheet Metal:
http://www.benoitsheetmetal.com/default.asp. The website is kind of
confusing - Don't bother with the navigation buttons for products, click on
the "Complete Inventory" button (which takes you to a page that only has a
list of the items that they have pictures of) and then click on "View our
inventory list as an HTML document", which takes you to a MUCH bigger list. 
I went up to Benoit on Thursday. I had one of the cheap Roper Whitney #5 Jr.
knockoffs, it was so cheap that one of the dies could be deformed with a
pair of pliers, so it wore out in a couple weeks. I went to Benoit to get a
genuine #5 and a bench clamp for it. The people there are great! They are
very nice and helpful and have a lot of great stuff in stock.

I looked at the #17, it's pretty nice, but we live in a condo so I need more
versatility. I saw an interesting bench press that had a bunch of adaptors
here:
http://www.vansantent.com/sheet_metal_machines/sheet_metal_machines.htm 
I asked about it at Benoit and they confirmed that it's an excellent
machine. It is made by Mittler Brothers Machine & Tool:
http://www.mittlerbros.com/, and has various tool sets like a shear,
punches, flaring dies, even louver dies. It's only $495, and the punches &
dies are cheaper than those for the #17. 

Best regards, 

~flight
flight at flightofharmony.com
http://www.flightofharmony.com

-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
-> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of J.L.Marshall at comcast.net
-> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 7:05 AM
-> To: Dan Snazelle; j.l.marshall at comcast.net; sdiy
-> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
-> 
-> I mounted my Roper-Whitney #17 on a three foot length of 2x8". When I use
it,
-> I clamp it onto a Workmate. When it is not in use, it hides in a closet.
I'm
-> guessing that it might weigh 30 lbs. It easily pokes holes through 0.071"
6061-
-> T6 aluminum.
-> 
-> Whitney is probably most famous for the No. 5 Jr kit. There are Asian
copies for
-> less than $20. See Harborfreight.com
-> 
-> Visit www.roperwhitney.com. I found a tool distributor in Woodinville, WA
that
-> had a whole warehouse full of great old machines; hydraulic presses,
flywheel
-> presses, shears, brakes,....drool.
-> 
-> --
-> Take care,
-> John
-> 
->  -------------- Original message ----------------------
-> From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
-> >
-> > i would love to know more about a punch press....are they easy to
use/small
-> > enough to fit in a small room?
-> >
-> > thanks for the ideas everyone!!
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > --------------------------------------------
-> > check out various dan music at:
-> >
-> > http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
-> >
-> >
-> > http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
-> >
-> >
-> > http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
-> > (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > > From: J.L.Marshall at comcast.net
-> > > To: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> > > Subject: Re: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
-> > > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:04:12 +0000
-> > >
-> > > Better than a drill for panel applications is an old Roper-Whitney
#17 punch
-> > press. They are available cheap used.
-> > >
-> > > Step drills make clean well centered holes.
-> > >
-> > > A solid core door on cabinets makes a good work bench. If you like,
cover
-> the
-> > door with Masonite.
-> > >
-> > > --
-> > > Take care,
-> > > John
-> > >
-> > >  -------------- Original message ----------------------
-> > > From: Dan Snazelle
-> > >>
-> > >> well it is almost the holiday time!
-> > >> my wife wants a list as do other family members.
-> > >>
-> > >> so i was wondering about some good, but not too expensive items for
-> SDIY:
-> > >>
-> > >> 1.as always...looking for MORE MORE MORE good electronics books.
-> > >> i have all the standards (electronotes, cmos and ttl , filter and
opamp
-> > >> cookbooks,) but am ALWAYS trying to find some more (often older
titles
-> on
-> > analog
-> > >> stuff) interesting books to buy on amazon. recently got art of
electronics
-> > and
-> > >> intuitive IC opamps. but i want more!
-> > >>
-> > >> 2. looking for a place (that will ship) to buy a BENCH (wood)
-> > >>
-> > >> 3. a good cheap drill press
-> > >>
-> > >> 4. A GOOD soldering iron (with temp control,etc)
-> > >>
-> > >> 5. A good SET of  drill bits (any recommendations?)
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >> 6. ANY Other good electronics work gifts i have forgotten.
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >> last year i got a dremel, a good set of wirecutters and a few
screwdrivers.
-> > and
-> > >> i bought myself a scope.
-> > >>
-> > >> what are YOU guys asking for???
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >> thanks
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >> --------------------------------------------
-> > >> check out various dan music at:
-> > >>
-> > >> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
-> > >> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >>
-> > >> _______________________________________________
-> > >> Synth-diy mailing list
-> > >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> > >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
-> > >
-> 
-> _______________________________________________
-> Synth-diy mailing list
-> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From rw at firstpr.com.au  Sat Dec  6 18:51:25 2008
From: rw at firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 04:51:25 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Electronic surplus in Houston TX?
Message-ID: <fbb86f296d65a2f8e343a86bee434a16.squirrel@gair.firstpr.com.au>

Hi All,

I am in Houston Texas for the next week or so.  Does anyone know
of companies that sell second-hand test equipment and the like?

There used to be a place like this in Melbourne, but not any more.
 There's nothing like a good scrounge through a used electronic
equipment store and I was hoping I could find one here -
especially so close to NASA!

Please reply offlist since I am having difficulty reading my list
messages at present.

  Cheers

    - Robin                  http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/


From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Sat Dec  6 19:09:47 2008
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:09:47 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] dsPIC
In-Reply-To: <493AA1B9.6000200@burnit.co.uk>
References: <493857.93736.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<4939BB2A.4040703@cox.net> <493AA1B9.6000200@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <99B3CE15-9727-4DD9-A19E-85CBFA31EF61@cox.net>


On Dec 6, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Seb Francis wrote:

> Eric Brombaugh wrote:
>>
>> I've been using the true-blue Microchip ICD2 (hey - kinda rhymes!)  
>> lately. I tried the Olimex ICD2 knockoff a few years ago, but  
>> switched when I found that it couldn't talk to the 3.3V dsPICs  
>> reliably. It was a few $$ cheaper, but somewhat 'raw'. I've got no  
>> idea what other sorts of low-end interfaces there are these days.
>>
> Which Olimex model did you have Eric?  I use the "PIC-ICD2" model  
> (the one with both USB and RS232 interfaces) and have found it very  
> reliable and fully compatible with flash updates from MPLAB.
>
> I haven't yet tried it with any 3.3V dsPICs, but from the Olimex  
> website it looks like it should be ok (says 2.0 to 6.0 range).  They  
> do state that their PIC-ICD2-TINY model is not ok with newer PICs  
> that require <12.5V for Vpp.

I had the same PIC-ICD2 that you mention - in fact I believe that you  
pointed it out to me before I bought it. It worked just fine for the  
5V 30-series parts that I started out with, but when I tried using it  
with a dsPIC33F128GP708 then I got a lot of failures. Switching to the  
MCHP ICD2 solved the problem and I haven't gone back to try it out  
since then.

I did a bit of research at the time to see what might be wrong and  
recall coming across some discussions on various embedded forums about  
tweaking the values of some resistors to improve current sensing and/ 
or impedance matching. I never looked into it much further though. I  
could probably dig it out and see if there are any firmware updates  
that might fix the problem, or if trying it out on different dsPICs  
might help.

Eric



From czvekan at gmail.com  Sat Dec  6 22:04:30 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:04:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
Message-ID: <3AA9C0FC-7DCE-4D6F-8663-D8C503A7535D@gmail.com>

Hi Group ,

I found some interesting  sliders and caps for my ARP2600 on ebay.  
Does anybody knows this guy Anglian Art ? Any experience with the  
seller?

here is what I would be interested in.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ARP-2600-slider-caps-NEW-STOCK-qty-of-10_W0QQitemZ310102047370QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


Csaba


From guitaricon at verizon.net  Sat Dec  6 22:48:35 2008
From: guitaricon at verizon.net (jeff brown)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:48:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
References: <3AA9C0FC-7DCE-4D6F-8663-D8C503A7535D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <699533A34ECC481C81BB08E04EA3C018@jeff>

Excellent Seller.  I have bought from him on several occaisions.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Csaba Zvekan" <czvekan at gmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 4:04 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps


> Hi Group ,
>
> I found some interesting  sliders and caps for my ARP2600 on ebay.  Does 
> anybody knows this guy Anglian Art ? Any experience with the  seller?
>
> here is what I would be interested in.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ARP-2600-slider-caps-NEW-STOCK-qty-of-10_W0QQitemZ310102047370QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
>
>
> Csaba
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Sat Dec  6 22:52:38 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 21:52:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Synth DIY UK website
Message-ID: <F7715BE6-06DA-4565-9ABF-CC049E52BFE5@synth.net>

Ladies and Gents,

   I've updated the SynthDIY UK page - http://www.diy.synth.net/uk/

   The page will be updated as raffle prizes are donated and when we  
have the room booking system up, we'll update the page.

Paul


From tprivitera at nc.rr.com  Sat Dec  6 23:31:58 2008
From: tprivitera at nc.rr.com (Tim Privitera)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:31:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for an Oberheim OB-Xa card to complete a restoration
Message-ID: <PGEMLJGCPNLAIINNIKAOGEEPDEAA.tprivitera@nc.rr.com>

Hi all,

Just got turned onto this list from someone from the Hamtech list and was
crossing my fingers......

I just got an Oberheim OB-Xa recently and one of the eight voice cards is
damaged.

I figured somebody on this list may have a known-good voice card and would
be willing to part with it.

Let me know and thanks in advance,

Tim Privitera



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Dec  6 23:46:00 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:46:00 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for an Oberheim OB-Xa card to complete a
	restoration
In-Reply-To: <PGEMLJGCPNLAIINNIKAOGEEPDEAA.tprivitera@nc.rr.com>
References: <PGEMLJGCPNLAIINNIKAOGEEPDEAA.tprivitera@nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <2E52EE52-C6C7-4B9C-9F4E-25C2A12FA425@blueyonder.co.uk>

There was one on Ebay.co.uk about 2 weeks back, don't know if it sold.

Graham

On 6 Dec 2008, at 22:31, Tim Privitera wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just got turned onto this list from someone from the Hamtech list  
> and was
> crossing my fingers......
>
> I just got an Oberheim OB-Xa recently and one of the eight voice  
> cards is
> damaged.
>
> I figured somebody on this list may have a known-good voice card and  
> would
> be willing to part with it.
>
> Let me know and thanks in advance,
>
> Tim Privitera
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From kinrat at dsl.pipex.com  Sun Dec  7 00:16:01 2008
From: kinrat at dsl.pipex.com (kinrat)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 23:16:01 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>
References: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>
Message-ID: <68509A84CCD64D1D9A57F5C221333450@kinrat>

Hi,

Is this gathering open to anyone? I am a noob member, just built my first
diy synth (PAIA Fatman) after 40 years of thinking about it! This might give
me some ideas on what my next project should be (hope not to wait another 40
years!)

Patrick Logue



-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Paul Maddox
Sent: 05 December 2008 23:15
To: synthdiy DIY
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009

Ladies and Gents,

   Neil has confirmed that we have July the 17th, 2009 for our next  
Synth DIY UK gathering.
more details will be forthcoming in the next month or so.

   I'd like to put an an appeal for donations of prizes for the  
raffle, as we plan to restart this year. all money raised from the  
raffle money will goto charity.

   It's also been suggested that we see if we can get the original  
five people, from the first meeting in 1999, there again.

   These are ;-

Tony Allgood
Colin Fraser
David Peachey
Chris Crosskey
and yours truly.

(http://diy.synth.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=256)

   We're looking at what to do as a special treat as this is the tenth  
anniversary of SynthDIY-UK. Sadly, we've been told we cannot have the  
auditorium that is part of robinson college for a gig.

   It's been suggested that we might try and get a gig or short set,  
from a couple of our regulars (Gert Van-Santen from waveworld and Paul  
Nagle), in the hall we hold the main event. we'll be speaking with  
Paul and Gert and also guaging the amount of space we have available  
for a gig.

   I would also like to request that everyone who is bringing  
something to show bare in mind a couple of things ;-

1) Space is limited, so please try and let us know what you're  
bringing so we can be sure to have room for you

2) Power is EXTREMELY limited, so please no 2Kw PA for demoing your  
synth

3) If you plan to bring a PA, please let us know and we'd ask that you  
be willing to share it with fellow DIYers as PA resources are also  
limited.

4) As with 2008's event, I would like only synths you have built or  
heavily modified in the main room. There is a smaller room off to one  
side, which can be used for commercial synths/sequencers and for  
jamming.

   Room booking will be up online in the next month or two, Neil will  
post a message when it's up and ready to use.

  If you have any questions, or would like to donate a prize, please  
contact me off list.

  We look forward to seeing you in July!

Paul


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Sun Dec  7 09:42:42 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 08:42:42 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <68509A84CCD64D1D9A57F5C221333450@kinrat>
References: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>
	<68509A84CCD64D1D9A57F5C221333450@kinrat>
Message-ID: <4430B9D8-34F7-44C0-9980-1EC88174A027@synth.net>

Patrick,

   Yep, anyone is welcome to visit, you don't have to bring anything  
to show. In previous years we've had people visit us from all over the  
world, the US< Austria, Germany, Spain, France and even further a  
field, it's a very laid back, friendly atmosphere.

   If you do want to show something you've built or modified yourself,  
let me know what it is and how much space you need and we'll keep a  
space for you.

Paul

On 6 Dec 2008, at 23:16, kinrat wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is this gathering open to anyone? I am a noob member, just built my  
> first
> diy synth (PAIA Fatman) after 40 years of thinking about it! This  
> might give
> me some ideas on what my next project should be (hope not to wait  
> another 40
> years!)
>
> Patrick Logue
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Paul Maddox
> Sent: 05 December 2008 23:15
> To: synthdiy DIY
> Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
>
> Ladies and Gents,
>
>   Neil has confirmed that we have July the 17th, 2009 for our next
> Synth DIY UK gathering.
> more details will be forthcoming in the next month or so.
>
>   I'd like to put an an appeal for donations of prizes for the
> raffle, as we plan to restart this year. all money raised from the
> raffle money will goto charity.
>
>   It's also been suggested that we see if we can get the original
> five people, from the first meeting in 1999, there again.
>
>   These are ;-
>
> Tony Allgood
> Colin Fraser
> David Peachey
> Chris Crosskey
> and yours truly.
>
> (http://diy.synth.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=256)
>
>   We're looking at what to do as a special treat as this is the tenth
> anniversary of SynthDIY-UK. Sadly, we've been told we cannot have the
> auditorium that is part of robinson college for a gig.
>
>   It's been suggested that we might try and get a gig or short set,
> from a couple of our regulars (Gert Van-Santen from waveworld and Paul
> Nagle), in the hall we hold the main event. we'll be speaking with
> Paul and Gert and also guaging the amount of space we have available
> for a gig.
>
>   I would also like to request that everyone who is bringing
> something to show bare in mind a couple of things ;-
>
> 1) Space is limited, so please try and let us know what you're
> bringing so we can be sure to have room for you
>
> 2) Power is EXTREMELY limited, so please no 2Kw PA for demoing your
> synth
>
> 3) If you plan to bring a PA, please let us know and we'd ask that you
> be willing to share it with fellow DIYers as PA resources are also
> limited.
>
> 4) As with 2008's event, I would like only synths you have built or
> heavily modified in the main room. There is a smaller room off to one
> side, which can be used for commercial synths/sequencers and for
> jamming.
>
>   Room booking will be up online in the next month or two, Neil will
> post a message when it's up and ready to use.
>
>  If you have any questions, or would like to donate a prize, please
> contact me off list.
>
>  We look forward to seeing you in July!
>
> Paul
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From james at 4thharmonic.com  Sun Dec  7 12:47:20 2008
From: james at 4thharmonic.com (James Dunn)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:47:20 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
In-Reply-To: <3AA9C0FC-7DCE-4D6F-8663-D8C503A7535D@gmail.com>
References: <3AA9C0FC-7DCE-4D6F-8663-D8C503A7535D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <493BB7C8.5060304@4thharmonic.com>

Yes, I bought these replacement caps for my 2600 a few months ago, 
although I seem to remember they were a bit more expensive then - more 
like ?45 for ten! They're pretty good though. They fit well, the only 
criticism would be that they have a slightly rougher matt finish. The 
original ones on my 2600 have a more gloss finish.

Csaba Zvekan wrote:
> Hi Group ,
>
> I found some interesting sliders and caps for my ARP2600 on ebay. Does 
> anybody knows this guy Anglian Art ? Any experience with the seller?
>
> here is what I would be interested in.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ARP-2600-slider-caps-NEW-STOCK-qty-of-10_W0QQitemZ310102047370QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 
>
>
>
> Csaba
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>



From james at ticalun.net  Sun Dec  7 15:43:09 2008
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 08:43:09 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
In-Reply-To: <493BB7C8.5060304@4thharmonic.com>
References: <3AA9C0FC-7DCE-4D6F-8663-D8C503A7535D@gmail.com>
	<493BB7C8.5060304@4thharmonic.com>
Message-ID: <002101c9587a$1ff0a9d0$5fd1fd70$@net>

Your original caps have 30 years of hand applied gentle polishing.  See how these new ones look in 30 years. ;)

James R. Coplin 

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of James Dunn
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:47 AM
To: Csaba Zvekan
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps

Yes, I bought these replacement caps for my 2600 a few months ago, 
although I seem to remember they were a bit more expensive then - more 
like ?45 for ten! They're pretty good though. They fit well, the only 
criticism would be that they have a slightly rougher matt finish. The 
original ones on my 2600 have a more gloss finish.

Csaba Zvekan wrote:
> Hi Group ,
>
> I found some interesting sliders and caps for my ARP2600 on ebay. Does 
> anybody knows this guy Anglian Art ? Any experience with the seller?
>
> here is what I would be interested in.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ARP-2600-slider-caps-NEW-STOCK-qty-of-10_W0QQitemZ310102047370QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 
>
>
>
> Csaba
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From czvekan at gmail.com  Sun Dec  7 16:38:03 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:38:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
In-Reply-To: <002101c9587a$1ff0a9d0$5fd1fd70$@net>
References: <3AA9C0FC-7DCE-4D6F-8663-D8C503A7535D@gmail.com>
	<493BB7C8.5060304@4thharmonic.com>
	<002101c9587a$1ff0a9d0$5fd1fd70$@net>
Message-ID: <082AAFEE-10E7-4A31-B4B7-7337D2E30950@gmail.com>

All right, I bought some ten pieces . But the price is ridiculously  
high, IMO.  Ohh well.
I wonder if I can buy a few   slider shaft off from this guy ?

Thanks guys for the input.

On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, James R. Coplin wrote:

> Your original caps have 30 years of hand applied gentle polishing.   
> See how these new ones look in 30 years. ;)
>
> James R. Coplin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> ] On Behalf Of James Dunn
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:47 AM
> To: Csaba Zvekan
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
>
> Yes, I bought these replacement caps for my 2600 a few months ago,
> although I seem to remember they were a bit more expensive then - more
> like ?45 for ten! They're pretty good though. They fit well, the only
> criticism would be that they have a slightly rougher matt finish. The
> original ones on my 2600 have a more gloss finish.
>
> Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>> Hi Group ,
>>
>> I found some interesting sliders and caps for my ARP2600 on ebay.  
>> Does
>> anybody knows this guy Anglian Art ? Any experience with the seller?
>>
>> here is what I would be interested in.
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ARP-2600-slider-caps-NEW-STOCK-qty-of-10_W0QQitemZ310102047370QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
>>
>>
>>
>> Csaba
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Dec  7 20:16:11 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:16:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
Message-ID: <9AE0534A353D4DE9835B8BD799E0BCB0@jhsilent>

Hi,

I got several requests for a VCO like I have in my JH-5, something that 
doesn't have the focus on precision but on character, with "linear 
detuning", and some of that early Moog and EMS character (without being a 
clone):
http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html

The main reason why I hesitated so long was as simple as it was 
embarrassing: I couln't find my design documents - I must have lost them in 
moving houses some years ago. The prospect was that'd I'd have to 
reverse-engineer my own prototype if I wanted to offer a PCB for this ...

But some days ago, I found my PSpice simulation files, which show the main 
parts of the VCO and VCO driver circuits in a form that must be very close 
to what I've actually built in the JH-5.

So, suddenly the possibility is there ...

JH. 



From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Sun Dec  7 20:32:35 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl.)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:32:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <9AE0534A353D4DE9835B8BD799E0BCB0@jhsilent>
References: <9AE0534A353D4DE9835B8BD799E0BCB0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <DE875832-CD76-4D86-BDD1-80CC9054D5FA@blauwurf.info>


YES!!  :-D  Michael.

On Dec 7, 2008, at 8:16 PM, JH. wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I got several requests for a VCO like I have in my JH-5, something  
> that
> doesn't have the focus on precision but on character, with "linear
> detuning", and some of that early Moog and EMS character (without  
> being a
> clone):
> http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html
>
> The main reason why I hesitated so long was as simple as it was
> embarrassing: I couln't find my design documents - I must have lost  
> them in
> moving houses some years ago. The prospect was that'd I'd have to
> reverse-engineer my own prototype if I wanted to offer a PCB for  
> this ...
>
> But some days ago, I found my PSpice simulation files, which show  
> the main
> parts of the VCO and VCO driver circuits in a form that must be very  
> close
> to what I've actually built in the JH-5.
>
> So, suddenly the possibility is there ...
>
> JH.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



--
noise chasers: http://blauwurf.at



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sun Dec  7 21:25:49 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:25:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <493A56D5.2060304@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <768382.61384.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Yes, him it was, thanks. It's nice due to his choice of hifi
knobs!

Was it analog digital or both in it's audio chain?

-06 skrev Oakley Sound <oakleylist at btinternet.com>:

> Fr?n: Oakley Sound <oakleylist at btinternet.com>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
> Till: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Datum: l?rdag 6 december 2008 15.11
> > What happend with that big poly machine some of you
> foklks intended to do?
> 
> That would be George Hearns. Very impressive surface
> mounted modules. It was mono only for the last do, but the
> potential is there for more voices.
> 
> Tony
> 
> www.oakleysound.com
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      ___________________________________________________
S?k efter k?rleken!
Hitta din tvillingsj?l p? Yahoo! Dejting: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;185753627;24584539;x?http://se.meetic.yahoo.net/index.php?mtcmk=148783



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sun Dec  7 21:33:02 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 21:33:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>
References: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>
Message-ID: <493C32FE.4040906@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Paul Maddox skrev:
> Ladies and Gents,
> 
>   Neil has confirmed that we have July the 17th, 2009 for our next Synth 
> DIY UK gathering.
> more details will be forthcoming in the next month or so.
> 
>   I'd like to put an an appeal for donations of prizes for the raffle, 
> as we plan to restart this year. all money raised from the raffle money 
> will goto charity.
> 
>   It's also been suggested that we see if we can get the original five 
> people, from the first meeting in 1999, there again.
> 
>   These are ;-
> 
> Tony Allgood
> Colin Fraser
> David Peachey
> Chris Crosskey
> and yours truly.

Taking a strol down the memory lane... have things developed anything 
since I visited?

I think I was a little behind the weather when I was there, but then I 
was able to pin-point both flooding events in Europe that week during 
one week of travel. I still tell the tale of us arguing on weither it 
was a cricet field or just a large lake.

> 1) Space is limited, so please try and let us know what you're bringing 
> so we can be sure to have room for you
> 
> 2) Power is EXTREMELY limited, so please no 2Kw PA for demoing your synth

Remember, althought truck-battery or diesel generator is an options, 
lack of space comes first! Do cut down on the PA.

Cheers,
Magnus - remember the old times hazilly


From electronicbattle at googlemail.com  Sun Dec  7 22:30:54 2008
From: electronicbattle at googlemail.com (Electronic Battle)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:30:54 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Analogue Shift Registers?
Message-ID: <E2DE29BCE8254045817B01D471967957@cruncher2>

Hello All

 I'm planning on building one in Eurorack format - I've seen a couple of 
circuits e.g. CGS catgirl or the original Serge one
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs34_asr.html or c/o 
http://www.ear-group.net/model_23.html )

 1) Does anyone have any URLs for more examples the could point me towards 
please?  I'm interested in perhaps employing something like the Analog 
Devices' smp04 or even the smp08:

 http://www.analog.com/en/other/sampletrack-and-hold-amplifiers/smp08/products/product.html 2)Has anyone used the Doepfer A-152 in the "shift register" mode?(http://www.doepfer.de/a152.htm )(not DIY I realise - sorry). I don'tunderstand this module yet so I cant tell if it'll do the same thing as(e.g.) plan B's model 23 ASR or the aforementioned ones. 3) and finally (and most frustratingly) I downloaded an MP3 from a URLwhich demonstrates nice use of an ASR kit - I think - and now I can't findthe original URL.  Please could someone listen to http://www.nitrogen.myzen.co.uk/Misc/binaryzonish.mp3 and let me know if they recognise it from somewhere? I'd like to find theoriginal website. I'll delete the MP3 in a couple of days. I've looked atBlacat and MOTM and CGS and PAIA but no luck yet. Thanks EB


From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Mon Dec  8 07:31:56 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 06:31:56 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <768382.61384.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <768382.61384.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6699D690-DCD0-47A8-BF4A-B37C896C4020@synth.net>

Karl,

> Yes, him it was, thanks. It's nice due to his choice of hifi
> knobs!

Bless the 1970's!

> Was it analog digital or both in it's audio chain?

analogue, digital control, but anaolgue everything else (from what I  
recall, analogue ADSR, VCO, VCF and VCA.).

Paul


From floppyscratcher at googlemail.com  Mon Dec  8 09:18:31 2008
From: floppyscratcher at googlemail.com (floppy)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:18:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <9AE0534A353D4DE9835B8BD799E0BCB0@jhsilent>
References: <9AE0534A353D4DE9835B8BD799E0BCB0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <493CD857.3010304@googlemail.com>

wow thats a great story of the lost osc.
if you where asking if people would want pcbs : i do




JH. schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> I got several requests for a VCO like I have in my JH-5, something that 
> doesn't have the focus on precision but on character, with "linear 
> detuning", and some of that early Moog and EMS character (without being a 
> clone):
> http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html
>
> The main reason why I hesitated so long was as simple as it was 
> embarrassing: I couln't find my design documents - I must have lost them in 
> moving houses some years ago. The prospect was that'd I'd have to 
> reverse-engineer my own prototype if I wanted to offer a PCB for this ...
>
> But some days ago, I found my PSpice simulation files, which show the main 
> parts of the VCO and VCO driver circuits in a form that must be very close 
> to what I've actually built in the JH-5.
>
> So, suddenly the possibility is there ...
>
> JH. 
>
>
>   



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Dec  8 12:33:42 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:33:42 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
Message-ID: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

Hi J?rgen,

With "some of that early Moog and EMS character" do you mean its looks or
its sound (besides the tuning/tracking characteristics)?

I think "linear detuning" is a great idea. How about modulating the amount
of it with a slow random signal or LFO to make the VCO even more "alive"?

JH. schreef:
> Hi,
>
> I got several requests for a VCO like I have in my JH-5, something that
> doesn't have the focus on precision but on character, with "linear
> detuning", and some of that early Moog and EMS character (without being a
> clone):
> http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html
>
> The main reason why I hesitated so long was as simple as it was
> embarrassing: I couln't find my design documents - I must have lost them
> in
> moving houses some years ago. The prospect was that'd I'd have to
> reverse-engineer my own prototype if I wanted to offer a PCB for this ...
>
> But some days ago, I found my PSpice simulation files, which show the main
> parts of the VCO and VCO driver circuits in a form that must be very close
> to what I've actually built in the JH-5.
>
> So, suddenly the possibility is there ...
>
> JH.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Mon Dec  8 17:09:48 2008
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:09:48 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <6699D690-DCD0-47A8-BF4A-B37C896C4020@synth.net>
References: <768382.61384.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<6699D690-DCD0-47A8-BF4A-B37C896C4020@synth.net>
Message-ID: <002401c9594f$65b8fb40$312af1c0$@com>

Only fitting I should step in here I suppose!  The big silver poly was
indeed mine but I've decided I don't like the knobs and am changing them!
They look great but the 'flute' makes them un-ergonomic to use!  Since Synth
DIY UK2008 it is now polyphonic and properly boxed!  I'll bring it along to
UK2009 in July.  Regards, George

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Paul Maddox
Sent: 08 December 2008 06:32
To: synthdiy DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009

Karl,

> Yes, him it was, thanks. It's nice due to his choice of hifi
> knobs!

Bless the 1970's!

> Was it analog digital or both in it's audio chain?

analogue, digital control, but anaolgue everything else (from what I  
recall, analogue ADSR, VCO, VCF and VCA.).

Paul
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Dec  8 17:17:31 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 17:17:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>

>With "some of that early Moog and EMS character" do you mean its looks or
>its sound (besides the tuning/tracking characteristics)?

The look depends on what you choose for front panel design.
I meant the sound - I've put a short sample up on my web page ...

>I think "linear detuning" is a great idea. How about modulating the amount
>of it with a slow random signal or LFO to make the VCO even more "alive"?

You can always do that, but I don't think it's really necessary with these 
VCOs.

Best Regards,

JH.



JH. schreef:
> Hi,
>
> I got several requests for a VCO like I have in my JH-5, something that
> doesn't have the focus on precision but on character, with "linear
> detuning", and some of that early Moog and EMS character (without being a
> clone):
> http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html
>
> The main reason why I hesitated so long was as simple as it was
> embarrassing: I couln't find my design documents - I must have lost them
> in
> moving houses some years ago. The prospect was that'd I'd have to
> reverse-engineer my own prototype if I wanted to offer a PCB for this ...
>
> But some days ago, I found my PSpice simulation files, which show the main
> parts of the VCO and VCO driver circuits in a form that must be very close
> to what I've actually built in the JH-5.
>
> So, suddenly the possibility is there ...
>
> JH.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From chris at chrismusic.de  Mon Dec  8 17:21:18 2008
From: chris at chrismusic.de (ChristianH)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:21:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <493A579D.5080102@btinternet.com>
References: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net>
	<493A579D.5080102@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20081208171006.84C0.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

Wow, you must have had an awful July this year over there in the UK.
Ok, we had some frozen windows too this summer, but no 3 inches of snow.

Chris (from Germany, without any sight of real summer this year)



On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:44:45 +0000 Oakley Sound
<oakleylist at btinternet.com> wrote:

>  > It's also been suggested that we see if we can get the original five 
> people, from the first meeting in 1999, there again.
> 
> I'm sure I'll be there. Although thinking about July when there is three 
> inches of snow on the ground is rather difficult. ;-)
> 
> Tony
> 
> www.oakleysound.com
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From rga24 at cantab.net  Mon Dec  8 17:49:39 2008
From: rga24 at cantab.net (Richard Atkinson)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:49:39 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] FS: Roland bender levers (UK)
References: <CF31F31C-CEF1-40AA-8CF3-3A6A4D2485FB@synth.net><493A579D.5080102@btinternet.com>
	<20081208171006.84C0.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <A3162E9A1CD04C0D9637CB0154BF6340@Abion>

I have a set of Roland bender levers for sale, suitable for Jupiter-4,
Jupiter-8, Jupiter-6, Juno-6, Juno-60, System 100, SH series but not SH-101
or Juno-106. They are TT reproductions, and the price is ?10 each (UK pounds
sterling) plus postage.

Contact me off list for more details. 



From gil_we at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  8 17:57:26 2008
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:57:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Very noisy Juno 106 chorus...
Message-ID: <16586.66717.qm@web58006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I know the Junos' Chorus is a bit noisy, but the one on the Juno 106
I just got is has an extremely loud hiss noise... Does any one have any idea about how to solve this ?

Thanks !


      


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Dec  8 20:02:13 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:02:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>

JH. schreef:
>> With "some of that early Moog and EMS character" do you mean its looks or
>> its sound (besides the tuning/tracking characteristics)?
>>     
>
> The look depends on what you choose for front panel design.
> I meant the sound - I've put a short sample up on my web page ...
>   
Yes, I had heard it, and it sounds great. But I can't attribute that to 
anything besides the relative tuning and the delay or echo effect that 
you apparently used in the sample.
Other than relative tuning, I think the only way a VCO could exhibit a 
specific "character" is by the shape of its waveforms. But would the 
saws, triangles and squares in early Moog and EMS VCO's deviate from 
that of any properly designed waveshaper to the amount that you can hear 
the difference?

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From sines_tr at scale.gs  Mon Dec  8 20:19:21 2008
From: sines_tr at scale.gs (Todd Sines)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:19:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] building a PPG EVU MIDI interface
Message-ID: <6936E40E-E476-420A-9308-8541778D3C39@scale.gs>

hello everyone,

Slowly getting the courage to try this.

I have the new Virtual Music v8.3 OS EPROMs but need to get some parts  
from Hermann's list.
http://www.hermannseib.com/english/synths/ppg/midiretro.htm

4 IC sockets DIL 2x14 17,7mm
1 IC socket DIL 2x12 17,7mm
2 IC sockets DIL 2x7 10,1mm
1 IC socket DIL 2x4 10,1mm
(actually, a socket with 2x3 pins would be needed for the PC900, but I  
couldn't find one)
1 6850 ACIA
1 optocoupler PC900
1 quartz 2.000MHz

[pedestrian diodes & capacitors omitted]

Main question, would like to find a US source for the 6805 ACIA & PC  
900.

Any ideas?



+odd



From andersdl at buffalo.edu  Mon Dec  8 20:24:44 2008
From: andersdl at buffalo.edu (David Anderson)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:24:44 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] building a PPG EVU MIDI interface
In-Reply-To: <6936E40E-E476-420A-9308-8541778D3C39@scale.gs>
References: <6936E40E-E476-420A-9308-8541778D3C39@scale.gs>
Message-ID: <493D747C.2010504@buffalo.edu>

6850 is $4.39 at Jameco:
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jameco_page=46&langId=-1&productId=43633&drill_parents=category_root%24%2410%24%241020&drill_children=10%24%241020%24%24102040&catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&search_type=all&drill_displays=ICs+%26+Semiconductors+%2F+Communication+%2F+UARTs&ddkey=http:ParametricSearchResultsView

PC900 is $1.09
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jameco_page=42&langId=-1&productId=1624000&catalogId=10001&freeText=pc900&storeId=10001&search_type=all&ddkey=http:StoreCatalogDrillDownView




From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Dec  8 20:44:56 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 20:44:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl><58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>

>>> With "some of that early Moog and EMS character" do you mean its looks 
>>> or
>>> its sound (besides the tuning/tracking characteristics)?
>>>
>>
>> The look depends on what you choose for front panel design.
>> I meant the sound - I've put a short sample up on my web page ...
>>
>Yes, I had heard it, and it sounds great. But I can't attribute that to
>anything besides the relative tuning and the delay or echo effect that
>you apparently used in the sample.

You're right, it's not a dry sample. In fact, I have re-used that sample 
from a demo that was initially meant to advertize the VCF of the JH-5, some 
years ago. :)

>Other than relative tuning, I think the only way a VCO could exhibit a
>specific "character" is by the shape of its waveforms.

I would even go further and say: forget the waveforms.

JH. 



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Dec  8 21:48:55 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:48:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl><58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>

JH. schreef:
>>>> With "some of that early Moog and EMS character" do you mean its looks 
>>>> or
>>>> its sound (besides the tuning/tracking characteristics)?
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> The look depends on what you choose for front panel design.
>>> I meant the sound - I've put a short sample up on my web page ...
>>>
>>>       
>> Yes, I had heard it, and it sounds great. But I can't attribute that to
>> anything besides the relative tuning and the delay or echo effect that
>> you apparently used in the sample.
>>     
>
> You're right, it's not a dry sample. In fact, I have re-used that sample 
> from a demo that was initially meant to advertize the VCF of the JH-5, some 
> years ago. :)
>
>   
>> Other than relative tuning, I think the only way a VCO could exhibit a
>> specific "character" is by the shape of its waveforms.
>>     
>
> I would even go further and say: forget the waveforms.
>   
Then the "some of that early Moog and EMS character" would be due to its 
tuning/tracking characteristics alone.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Mon Dec  8 22:15:06 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 21:15:06 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [Ppg] building a PPG EVU MIDI interface
In-Reply-To: <6936E40E-E476-420A-9308-8541778D3C39@scale.gs>
References: <6936E40E-E476-420A-9308-8541778D3C39@scale.gs>
Message-ID: <1C5CC10F-8D13-4D2F-A650-748401987826@synth.net>

Todd,

   Your best bet is probably ebay, as much as I hate to say it.

Paul

On 8 Dec 2008, at 19:19, Todd Sines wrote:

> hello everyone,
>
> Slowly getting the courage to try this.
>
> I have the new Virtual Music v8.3 OS EPROMs but need to get some  
> parts from Hermann's list.
> http://www.hermannseib.com/english/synths/ppg/midiretro.htm
>
> 4 IC sockets DIL 2x14 17,7mm
> 1 IC socket DIL 2x12 17,7mm
> 2 IC sockets DIL 2x7 10,1mm
> 1 IC socket DIL 2x4 10,1mm
> (actually, a socket with 2x3 pins would be needed for the PC900, but  
> I couldn't find one)
> 1 6850 ACIA
> 1 optocoupler PC900
> 1 quartz 2.000MHz
>
> [pedestrian diodes & capacitors omitted]
>
> Main question, would like to find a US source for the 6805 ACIA & PC  
> 900.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> +odd
>
> _______________________________________________
> PPG mailing list
> PPG at rubidium.dyndns.org
> http://rubidium.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ppg



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Mon Dec  8 22:17:25 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 21:17:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My Sequencer
In-Reply-To: <DECBD4EA-0518-4A86-B8B0-2344E0FFD125@synth.net>
References: <ECFDE9DA-797F-40D8-AB91-303D280DA0E9@synth.net>
	<F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096416@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
	<DECBD4EA-0518-4A86-B8B0-2344E0FFD125@synth.net>
Message-ID: <A485C307-7960-4DB0-B2BD-5927BE9186A2@synth.net>

Ladies and Gents,

  The jitter bug now fixed and I've added 'step length' and 'legato'  
options ;-

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NBg3Qrm-NmA

  It also now kicks out MIDI clock with start/stop events.
The remaining things I have left to do is, MIDI input (for root note  
and clock) and saving of the sequence to internal flash.

  hopefully that's next weekends work.

Paul


On 4 Dec 2008, at 06:19, Paul Maddox wrote:

> All,
>
> Thank you for your comments and support, I'll continue work on it  
> over the next week or two and I'll upload a new video when I've got  
> the 'jitter' bug out.
>
>  I do plan on designing a PCB, over the christmas holiday, and I'm  
> hoping to make it fit the MOTM/Oakley/Dotcom sized panel.
>
> Again, thank you for your support and input.
>
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Dec  8 22:48:59 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 22:48:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl><58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent><493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl><AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>

>> I would even go further and say: forget the waveforms.
>>
>Then the "some of that early Moog and EMS character" would be due to its
>tuning/tracking characteristics alone.

Well, if waveform is secondary, then it's frequency that remains.
Don't know if what you mean by tuning and tracking covers all that frequency 
could depend of. (What about time?)

JH. 



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  8 23:18:16 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 17:18:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] building a PPG EVU MIDI interface
In-Reply-To: <6936E40E-E476-420A-9308-8541778D3C39@scale.gs>
References: <6936E40E-E476-420A-9308-8541778D3C39@scale.gs>
Message-ID: <5F8CFD7B-0F2E-4554-B37F-B88816687CF3@earthlink.net>

Unicorn ELectronics has 6850 for $1.99

They don't have the PC900, but I doubt that is a critical part. Look  
at some other MIDI input schematics. I think a 6N138 would work fine.
They have those for 59?.

Mark




On Dec 8, 2008, at 2:19 PM, Todd Sines wrote:

> hello everyone,
>
> Slowly getting the courage to try this.
>
> I have the new Virtual Music v8.3 OS EPROMs but need to get some  
> parts from Hermann's list.
> http://www.hermannseib.com/english/synths/ppg/midiretro.htm
>
> 4 IC sockets DIL 2x14 17,7mm
> 1 IC socket DIL 2x12 17,7mm
> 2 IC sockets DIL 2x7 10,1mm
> 1 IC socket DIL 2x4 10,1mm
> (actually, a socket with 2x3 pins would be needed for the PC900,  
> but I couldn't find one)
> 1 6850 ACIA
> 1 optocoupler PC900
> 1 quartz 2.000MHz
>
> [pedestrian diodes & capacitors omitted]
>
> Main question, would like to find a US source for the 6805 ACIA &  
> PC 900.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> +odd
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Dec  8 23:56:44 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:56:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl><58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent><493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl><AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>

JH. schreef:
>>> I would even go further and say: forget the waveforms.
>>>
>>>       
>> Then the "some of that early Moog and EMS character" would be due to its
>> tuning/tracking characteristics alone.
>>     
>
> Well, if waveform is secondary, then it's frequency that remains.
> Don't know if what you mean by tuning and tracking covers all that frequency 
> could depend of. (What about time?)
>   
Do you mean variation of the frequency with time? Or, as it says on your 
web page, "randomness", "unstability", "instability" or "noisyness".
If that is what you mean I think this "character" is not for me. I would 
prefer a VCO that is stable and clean in the first place where you can 
add a controllable amount of randomness, noise etc.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Tue Dec  9 00:39:08 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 23:39:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] SynthDIY UK - 2009
In-Reply-To: <002401c9594f$65b8fb40$312af1c0$@com>
Message-ID: <672037.9293.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Great work George!

>George Hearn <georgehearn at btinternet.com>

> Only fitting I should step in here I suppose!  The big
> silver poly was
> indeed mine but I've decided I don't like the knobs
> and am changing them!
> They look great but the 'flute' makes them
> un-ergonomic to use!

Indeed! 

> Since Synth
> DIY UK2008 it is now polyphonic and properly boxed! 
> I'll bring it along to
> UK2009 in July.  Regards, George

How many voices? Could you give us some info on its voice architecture?
Plan to go public with it or was it just for personal pleasure?

Reg
Kd


      ___________________________________________________
S?k efter k?rleken!
Hitta din tvillingsj?l p? Yahoo! Dejting: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;185753627;24584539;x?http://se.meetic.yahoo.net/index.php?mtcmk=148783



From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  9 01:09:40 2008
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:09:40 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
Message-ID: <BAY118-W49EE10624091F6B98A089BF5FA0@phx.gbl>


I'd totally get a couple of these PCBs. I don't care so much about stable VCOs. Character is good :)
-Ian
_________________________________________________________________
You live life online. So we put Windows on the web. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/


From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Dec  9 02:18:41 2008
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:18:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

At 05:56 PM 12/8/2008, Simon Brouwer wrote:

>Do you mean variation of the frequency with time? Or, as it says on 
>your web page, "randomness", "unstability", "instability" or "noisyness".
>If that is what you mean I think this "character" is not for me. I 
>would prefer a VCO that is stable and clean in the first place where 
>you can add a controllable amount of randomness, noise etc.

MOTM has got you covered, then!

I tend to agree with you in that I don't understand why a small 
amount of noise can't be used to introduce some artificial 
instability. What is it about the variation in a JH Living" VCO -- or 
a first-generation R.A.Moog VCO -- that can't be replicated with a 
little well-placed noise. But, this is an old question that I haven't 
seen an answer to.

John



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Tue Dec  9 02:39:14 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 17:39:14 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Washers for 1/8" jacks
Message-ID: <20081209013914.GE28820@moo.sysabend.org>

Dumb question...  Anyone know of a source for thin washers to go around the
asian 3.5mm jacks?  Normally I've been buying Kobiconn jacks with washer and
nut, but they no longer include a washer with it ( although the catalog says
they do ).  I've been having a nice go-round with Mouser and I'm losing.

They are M6 or 1/4" washers, very thin metal, nickle plated.  Outside
diameter is around 9.5mm.  The washers that Switchcraft use on their jacks
are WAY larger so not a good option.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From synth1 at airmail.net  Tue Dec  9 02:45:50 2008
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 19:45:50 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Washers for 1/8" jacks
References: <20081209013914.GE28820@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <F0309117BB7D4B4C899268A4172A9F0E@curley>

Ask Mouser to ask Switchcraft what they ship with a 148A jack :)

I *finally* got Mouser to offer Switchraft 1/4" washers as a stock item.

Paul S.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Arnold" <xyzzy at sysabend.org>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:39 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Washers for 1/8" jacks


> Dumb question...  Anyone know of a source for thin washers to go around 
> the
> asian 3.5mm jacks?  Normally I've been buying Kobiconn jacks with washer 
> and
> nut, but they no longer include a washer with it ( although the catalog 
> says
> they do ).  I've been having a nice go-round with Mouser and I'm losing.
>
> They are M6 or 1/4" washers, very thin metal, nickle plated.  Outside
> diameter is around 9.5mm.  The washers that Switchcraft use on their jacks
> are WAY larger so not a good option.
>
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
> - SynthGeek        -
> - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
> - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
> --------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 03:37:35 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 21:37:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
Message-ID: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>

I'm wondering how it appears so easy for the Technology Transplant guy
on ebay to make reproductions of vintage synth knobs, buttons,
switches and so on.  I was under the impression that getting some
custom plastic part fabricated from scratch was expensive, but he's
got all kinds of stuff.  Does anybody know the process a private
individual would have to go through to make a reproduction of a
Jupiter-8 knob in quantity for example?  Are the costs reasonable?

Just a few examples of stuff he offers below.  I'm tempted to buy his
reproductions over new boring stuff from Mouser/Digikey.  And his
prices aren't bad compared to new designs either.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-roland-tr-808-drum-machine-FULL-6pc-repro-KNOB-SET_W0QQitemZ290270514764QQ
http://cgi.ebay.com/roland-tr-808-FULL-16-step-SWITCH-SET-new-repro_W0QQitemZ300265526000QQihZ020QQ
http://cgi.ebay.com/roland-JP-4-Jupiter-4-SLIDER-KNOB-set-NEW-repro-parts_W0QQitemZ290271267202QQ

-Elhardt


From Brett.Maddaford at mailus.com.au  Tue Dec  9 03:47:03 2008
From: Brett.Maddaford at mailus.com.au (Brett Maddaford)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:47:03 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A6E5FAAEA351E84DA40649948B49840D023A1666@MEL0MXS01LV.salmat.com.au>

I have a friend that does regular buying trips to china...not synth
stuff. But from what she tells me you can get pretty much anything
reproduced there and generally at very reasonable costs. I'd say you
would need decent minimum numbers to make it worth while but probably
not like the numbers you would need in your own country.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Ken Elhardt
Sent: Tuesday, 9 December 2008 13:38 
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they
made?)

I'm wondering how it appears so easy for the Technology Transplant guy
on ebay to make reproductions of vintage synth knobs, buttons,
switches and so on.  I was under the impression that getting some
custom plastic part fabricated from scratch was expensive, but he's
got all kinds of stuff.  Does anybody know the process a private
individual would have to go through to make a reproduction of a
Jupiter-8 knob in quantity for example?  Are the costs reasonable?

Just a few examples of stuff he offers below.  I'm tempted to buy his
reproductions over new boring stuff from Mouser/Digikey.  And his
prices aren't bad compared to new designs either.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-roland-tr-808-drum-machine-FULL-6pc-repro-KNOB-S
ET_W0QQitemZ290270514764QQ
http://cgi.ebay.com/roland-tr-808-FULL-16-step-SWITCH-SET-new-repro_W0QQ
itemZ300265526000QQihZ020QQ
http://cgi.ebay.com/roland-JP-4-Jupiter-4-SLIDER-KNOB-set-NEW-repro-part
s_W0QQitemZ290271267202QQ

-Elhardt
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Tue Dec  9 03:55:52 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:55:52 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081209025552.GJ28820@moo.sysabend.org>

On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 09:37:35PM -0500, Ken Elhardt wrote:
> I'm wondering how it appears so easy for the Technology Transplant guy
> on ebay to make reproductions of vintage synth knobs, buttons,
> switches and so on.  I was under the impression that getting some
> custom plastic part fabricated from scratch was expensive, but he's
> got all kinds of stuff.  Does anybody know the process a private
> individual would have to go through to make a reproduction of a
> Jupiter-8 knob in quantity for example?  Are the costs reasonable?

I went through a lot of trouble when I was working on getting reproductions
of the Davies 1900H knob made.  This is the knob used on a lot of stuff like
Modcan gear.

Anyhow...

Best price I found was via Taiwan Knobs.

Tooling charge was quoted at $2900
Per Part  15cents
Min order 3000 pieces

30% Deposit, 40% when samples are ready, 30% when samples approved.

To get decent pricing you have to order at least 10,000 or sell them at
greater then $1ea.    These prices are from 5 or so years ago.   The numbers
just never worked out for me to be able to do it.  Note that my goal was to
get them well below $1ea in decent quantities.

Tooling for phenolic is much more expensive then for regular plastics like a
lot of more modern knobs are made from.  Found a US supplier that could have
done the knobs in a modern plastic for a tooling fee of $1600 or so and if I
remember 25cents/ea but in this case it wouldnt have looked right.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Tue Dec  9 05:36:13 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:36:13 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <20081209025552.GJ28820@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081209025552.GJ28820@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <493DF5BD.4030708@imt.net>

For certain parts...I mean unless you are really concerned about making 
it look identical underneath for instance on a slider cap... I'd think a 
person could just build some kind of mold where you can pour a bunch of 
them at once, let them set up with a form with greases shafts that sets 
down in the plastic as it's drying..then when dry pull them out.  I 
dunno.  I'm about to try it with an ARP quartet switch cap but using 
maybe white epoxe instead of plastic.   -Bob

Tom Arnold wrote:

>On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 09:37:35PM -0500, Ken Elhardt wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm wondering how it appears so easy for the Technology Transplant guy
>>on ebay to make reproductions of vintage synth knobs, buttons,
>>switches and so on.  I was under the impression that getting some
>>custom plastic part fabricated from scratch was expensive, but he's
>>got all kinds of stuff.  Does anybody know the process a private
>>individual would have to go through to make a reproduction of a
>>Jupiter-8 knob in quantity for example?  Are the costs reasonable?
>>    
>>
>
>I went through a lot of trouble when I was working on getting reproductions
>of the Davies 1900H knob made.  This is the knob used on a lot of stuff like
>Modcan gear.
>
>Anyhow...
>
>Best price I found was via Taiwan Knobs.
>
>Tooling charge was quoted at $2900
>Per Part  15cents
>Min order 3000 pieces
>
>30% Deposit, 40% when samples are ready, 30% when samples approved.
>
>To get decent pricing you have to order at least 10,000 or sell them at
>greater then $1ea.    These prices are from 5 or so years ago.   The numbers
>just never worked out for me to be able to do it.  Note that my goal was to
>get them well below $1ea in decent quantities.
>
>Tooling for phenolic is much more expensive then for regular plastics like a
>lot of more modern knobs are made from.  Found a US supplier that could have
>done the knobs in a modern plastic for a tooling fee of $1600 or so and if I
>remember 25cents/ea but in this case it wouldnt have looked right.
>
>  
>


From patchell at cox.net  Tue Dec  9 06:09:25 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:09:25 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
Message-ID: <493DFD85.9020203@cox.net>

Hope y'all aren't getting tired of these progress reports.

But it looks like I have got the basics of the four pole filter working 
(at least in the simulator).  It is going to take a bit more testing to 
verify that all of the data is going where and when it is supposed to...

The filter has a four clock pipe delay through it...i.e. it takes four 
clock cycles to complete one sample...but since it is pipelined...it 
only takes 512 clocks to complete all 512 filters...

One of the things I need to verify yet is that the resonance control 
works as it should.

Now, also to give you an idea of exactly what I am doing, this is 
basically the same kind of filter you would make with an 
SSM2040...without, unfortunately, the non-linear distortion that is 
inherent in the SSM2040.  I am not sure if I will be able to add a 
non-linearity in the filter loop or not.  That may be some future 
experiment.

Anyway...it is sure looking promising.

-Jim
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 07:16:03 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 01:16:03 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <493DF5BD.4030708@imt.net>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081209025552.GJ28820@moo.sysabend.org> <493DF5BD.4030708@imt.net>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812082216jefdd190m796681c22defd27a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Tom Arnold for that info.  It's nice to get general pricing for
doing this kind of stuff.  That's some of the info I was looking.  If
somebody needs a few thousand knobs for a product it seems like it
could be quite practical.  I believe most of the Roland knobs and
slider caps are just plastic and not phenolic (which I had to look
up).

And regarding Bob Weigel, now that you brought it up, it reminded me
that my father had created a few custom parts for some German helmets
he made.  He used some kind of plastic-like resin in molds he made,
but can't remember what the molds were made out of for those pieces.
He used plaster molds for other parts.  Picture below if interested.
The spike on the right helmet, plus the circular side pieces where the
chinstrap is connected to are plastic resin.  Some of the other parts
are bar solder.  He'd sculpt most of the parts out of clay and then
make molds from that.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p122/Elhardt/Merlin%20Elhardt/Pickelhaubes.jpg

Something I thought about a long time ago for doing single pieces or
just a few pieces, would be to use a computer milling machine.
Roland's CAD division used to make one about 20 years ago that was
relatively inexpensive.  It could carve just about any shape out of a
block of plastic.

-Elhardt


From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Dec  9 07:17:30 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 07:17:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl><58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent><493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl><AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent><493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl><ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent><493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <A2300475F1C7413BBDCC2796DC9BF4DE@jhsilent>

>>Do you mean variation of the frequency with time? Or, as it says on
>>your web page, "randomness", "unstability", "instability" or "noisyness".
>>If that is what you mean I think this "character" is not for me. I
>>would prefer a VCO that is stable and clean in the first place where
>>you can add a controllable amount of randomness, noise etc.
>
>MOTM has got you covered, then!

I have a MOTM VCO, and I love it!

And I have these totally different VCOs in my JH-5, and in my VCS 3 clone, 
and love them too, for entirely different reason.

JH.



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Tue Dec  9 07:57:24 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:57:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812082216jefdd190m796681c22defd27a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>	<20081209025552.GJ28820@moo.sysabend.org>
	<493DF5BD.4030708@imt.net>
	<d384bef90812082216jefdd190m796681c22defd27a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <493E16D4.9050306@imt.net>

Thanks Ken,

Yeah I had some joysticks for Korg and the like made via computer aided 
machining.  Nice job on the plastic helmets!  That reminds me I have a 
relic setting here I'd love to get into a museum somewhere.  I found 
this...really bizarre thing in California ..LA area somewhere on a 
hill...can't even recall where I was.  But it's a gas jet with a 
swastica on both the handle and the body. 

Anyway I think I'll go with just a clay for this one since it's 
basically mailbox shaped (like a ya know..large street mailbox for 
dumping mail into). If I have success I'll report on how it goes. -Bob

Ken Elhardt wrote:

>Thanks Tom Arnold for that info.  It's nice to get general pricing for
>doing this kind of stuff.  That's some of the info I was looking.  If
>somebody needs a few thousand knobs for a product it seems like it
>could be quite practical.  I believe most of the Roland knobs and
>slider caps are just plastic and not phenolic (which I had to look
>up).
>
>And regarding Bob Weigel, now that you brought it up, it reminded me
>that my father had created a few custom parts for some German helmets
>he made.  He used some kind of plastic-like resin in molds he made,
>but can't remember what the molds were made out of for those pieces.
>He used plaster molds for other parts.  Picture below if interested.
>The spike on the right helmet, plus the circular side pieces where the
>chinstrap is connected to are plastic resin.  Some of the other parts
>are bar solder.  He'd sculpt most of the parts out of clay and then
>make molds from that.
>
>http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p122/Elhardt/Merlin%20Elhardt/Pickelhaubes.jpg
>
>Something I thought about a long time ago for doing single pieces or
>just a few pieces, would be to use a computer milling machine.
>Roland's CAD division used to make one about 20 years ago that was
>relatively inexpensive.  It could carve just about any shape out of a
>block of plastic.
>
>-Elhardt
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 08:28:35 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 02:28:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>

I think we have seen an answer to this question along with a bunch of
audio files posted to back it up, and that is there isn't anything
special about the first generation Moog VCO, and that any
unstableness/drift or noise can easily be programmed into any VCO.

John Mahoney writes:
> I tend to agree with you in that I don't understand why a small amount of
> noise can't be used to introduce some artificial instability. What is it
> about the variation in a JH Living" VCO -- or a first-generation R.A.Moog
> VCO -- that can't be replicated with a little well-placed noise. But, this
> is an old question that I haven't seen an answer to.


From Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com  Tue Dec  9 09:37:27 2008
From: Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:37:27 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] My Sequencer
In-Reply-To: <A485C307-7960-4DB0-B2BD-5927BE9186A2@synth.net>
References: <ECFDE9DA-797F-40D8-AB91-303D280DA0E9@synth.net><F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096416@eumail.eu.panavision.com><DECBD4EA-0518-4A86-B8B0-2344E0FFD125@synth.net>
	<A485C307-7960-4DB0-B2BD-5927BE9186A2@synth.net>
Message-ID: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DBC9@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>

Hi,

>   The jitter bug now fixed and I've added 'step length' and 'legato'
> options ;-
> 
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NBg3Qrm-NmA
> 
>   It also now kicks out MIDI clock with start/stop events.
> The remaining things I have left to do is, MIDI input (for root note
> and clock) and saving of the sequence to internal flash.

I wasn't sure if the jitter problem was the video streaming when I first
watched it (I was reasonably sure it was the hardware, but hey, early
days!) - but that's much more stable.

Are you considering doing major/minor/other chording somehow?
-- 
Jason Tribbeck



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Dec  9 10:42:04 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:42:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>

At 12:28 AM 12/9/2008, Ken Elhardt wrote:
>I think we have seen an answer to this question along with a bunch of
>audio files posted to back it up, and that is there isn't anything
>special about the first generation Moog VCO, and that any
>unstableness/drift or noise can easily be programmed into any VCO.

Ken did a superb, thorough study of this.  It's really depressing that 
nobody seems to believe his results.

Ian 



From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Dec  9 11:07:11 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 03:07:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
Message-ID: <200812091107.mB9B7B7w026964@linux7.lan>

Jim Patchell <patchell at cox.net> wrote:
>Hope y'all aren't getting tired of these progress reports.

Not at all Jim, I'm very interested, especially in this filter and alias artifact
control.

>But it looks like I have got the basics of the four pole filter working 
>(at least in the simulator).  It is going to take a bit more testing to 
>verify that all of the data is going where and when it is supposed to...
>
>The filter has a four clock pipe delay through it...i.e. it takes four 
>clock cycles to complete one sample...but since it is pipelined...it 
>only takes 512 clocks to complete all 512 filters...
>
>One of the things I need to verify yet is that the resonance control 
>works as it should.
>
>Now, also to give you an idea of exactly what I am doing, this is 
>basically the same kind of filter you would make with an 
>SSM2040...without, unfortunately, the non-linear distortion that is 
>inherent in the SSM2040.  I am not sure if I will be able to add a 
>non-linearity in the filter loop or not.  That may be some future 
>experiment.

I wonder if that could be a blessing in disguise since distortion will generate
additional harmonics...

>Anyway...it is sure looking promising.
>
>-Jim
>----------------------------------------------
>Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
>SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
>----------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
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>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From atoni at rssd.esa.int  Tue Dec  9 11:14:50 2008
From: atoni at rssd.esa.int (Andrea TONI)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:14:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] -- Pro one clone ? --
Message-ID: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>

Hello,

I am considering a rack unit PRO One clone 

I been studying the schematics and i am a little concern on the 
availability of the following chips 

AD558 
cpu 8021 
CEM 3340 3320 3310 

Are they available ? where ? pricing ? 

everything else seems easily available,  isn't it ? 

Tnx in advance 

Regards
-------------------------------------------------Env1-----Env2--Env3-------------
Andrea.TONI at esa.int                              Vco1 \    |     |  \
Solar System Missions SRE-SM                     Vco2-->--Vcf-->Vca-->Ducati1098s 
www.rssd.esa.int                                 Vco3 /    |     |  /
-------------------------------------------------Lfo1-----Lfo2--Lfo3-------------



From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Tue Dec  9 11:36:09 2008
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:36:09 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] -- Pro one clone ? --
In-Reply-To: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>
References: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>
Message-ID: <000001c959e9$f39bb610$dad32230$@com>

I wouldn't recommend a pro-one clone simply because the CEM chips are hard
to obtain and if you are lucky enough to get some they are expensive.  There
are some other nice monosynths that can be nicely cloned that do not use
CEMs like the Oberheim SEM or the Moog Rogue or similar.  As far as the cpu
(8021) and DAC (AD558) goes you can always make modern parts perform an
equivalent function without affecting the sound.  George

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Andrea TONI
Sent: 09 December 2008 10:15
To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] -- Pro one clone ? --

Hello,

I am considering a rack unit PRO One clone 

I been studying the schematics and i am a little concern on the 
availability of the following chips 

AD558 
cpu 8021 
CEM 3340 3320 3310 

Are they available ? where ? pricing ? 

everything else seems easily available,  isn't it ? 

Tnx in advance 

Regards
-------------------------------------------------Env1-----Env2--Env3--------
-----
Andrea.TONI at esa.int                              Vco1 \    |     |  \
Solar System Missions SRE-SM
Vco2-->--Vcf-->Vca-->Ducati1098s 
www.rssd.esa.int                                 Vco3 /    |     |  /
-------------------------------------------------Lfo1-----Lfo2--Lfo3--------
-----

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From julian at port23.co.uk  Tue Dec  9 11:37:26 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:37:26 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] -- Pro one clone ? --
References: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>
Message-ID: <77AE83A7BB1D487E98C56A3CDE2703B4@legba>

>>I am considering a rack unit PRO One clone

The keyboard scanning cpu is not obtainable.  People will tell you that there's a project to clone it by some chap on the continent 
(europe) but thats been the case for years, and nothings happened yet.

I think the DAC shouldnt be too hard, and the CEMs are definatly obtainable, but at a price.

If youre going to make a rack device, why use the cpu and dac?  Why not do as im planning with the original pro-one pcb i have and 
simply add a midi to cv interface and route directly?  If you use a midi>>cv device with a couple of extra CC generated voltages, 
these could be used as sources in the modulation martix.

Julian







From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Tue Dec  9 12:01:13 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:01:13 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
Message-ID: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


Ian Fritz schreef:
> At 12:28 AM 12/9/2008, Ken Elhardt wrote:
>>I think we have seen an answer to this question along with a bunch of
>>audio files posted to back it up, and that is there isn't anything
>>special about the first generation Moog VCO, and that any
>>unstableness/drift or noise can easily be programmed into any VCO.
>
> Ken did a superb, thorough study of this.  It's really depressing that
> nobody seems to believe his results.

You can count me as a believer :)

See also
http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25433&sid=2cae0a12e3742b1c4432076be144e4e9
(search for "Why a Moog sounds like a Moog")

I think a VCO with low jitter and drift is more flexible because you could
still add (controllable amounts of) jitter and drift through modulation if
you want it, while you can also choose not to if you don't.

OTOH this would require additional circuits and/or patchcords etc. I can
see how musicians with sufficient space and resources might find find it
convenient to have some (extra) VCO's with mischief already built in.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From atoni at rssd.esa.int  Tue Dec  9 12:14:43 2008
From: atoni at rssd.esa.int (Andrea TONI)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:14:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] -- Pro one clone ? --
References: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>
	<000001c959e9$f39bb610$dad32230$@com>
Message-ID: <88819D1671114A398B071BC2B2F02BE0@esaad.esa.int>

tnx u all for the info (Ciao Bob !!! do u still have the k5 ?) 

indeed for a rack i don't need the multiplexing Cpu 

CEM rare ? but how does David Smith build his P8s ? 
i thought they were all cem based too ? 

Regards
-------------------------------------------------Env1-----Env2--Env3-------------
Andrea.TONI at esa.int                              Vco1 \    |     |  \
Solar System Missions SRE-SM                     Vco2-->--Vcf-->Vca-->Ducati1098s 
www.rssd.esa.int                                 Vco3 /    |     |  /
-------------------------------------------------Lfo1-----Lfo2--Lfo3-------------



From rainer at buchty.net  Tue Dec  9 12:22:14 2008
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:22:14 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
In-Reply-To: <200812091107.mB9B7B7w026964@linux7.lan>
References: <200812091107.mB9B7B7w026964@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812091211540.12401@i82pc05>

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> I wonder if that could be a blessing in disguise since distortion will 
> generate additional harmonics...

Following Antti's DAFX papers, it's these distortions -- and where 
applied -- which e.g. makes the sonic difference between Moog and SSM 
filters, or which makes the difference between an "analog"/"warm" and a 
"digital"/"clean" sounding digital filter.

For me, it was amazing to see that whenever the attribute "warmth" comes 
up, it is related to a tanh()-shaped compression function, no matter 
whether it's tube-based distortion, analog tape saturation, or 
distortion within the filter.

For any FPGA implementation the question therefore is how to get tanh() 
as cheap as possible. Maybe just shaping the upper 8 bits of the 
resulting signal is already decent enough, making it possible to just do 
a table-based distortion as opposed to approximating tanh() by x-x^3/6 
for x within [-1:1].

Rainer





From solution at netcabo.pt  Tue Dec  9 12:37:47 2008
From: solution at netcabo.pt (alf holm)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:37:47 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] os hardware
Message-ID: <3163D453-1B8A-4844-AB36-513CE51A2096@netcabo.pt>

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/11/_draft_open_source_hardwa.html


From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Tue Dec  9 12:55:51 2008
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:55:51 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] -- Pro one clone ? --
In-Reply-To: <88819D1671114A398B071BC2B2F02BE0@esaad.esa.int>
References: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>	<000001c959e9$f39bb610$dad32230$@com>
	<88819D1671114A398B071BC2B2F02BE0@esaad.esa.int>
Message-ID: <000d01c959f5$162c2060$42846120$@com>

>>CEM rare ? but how does David Smith build his P8s ? 
>>i thought they were all cem based too ? 

I'm interested in the answer to this if anyone knows!  George



From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Tue Dec  9 13:13:24 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:13:24 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812091211540.12401@i82pc05>
References: <200812091107.mB9B7B7w026964@linux7.lan>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0812091211540.12401@i82pc05>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091407100.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Rainer Buchty wrote:

> For me, it was amazing to see that whenever the attribute "warmth" comes
> up, it is related to a tanh()-shaped compression function, no matter
> whether it's tube-based distortion, analog tape saturation, or
> distortion within the filter.

Tanh has nothing to do with tubes. Quite asymmetric curves there (just to 
nitpick). For differential transistor circuits it can be derived directly 
from the transfer function (with only minor approximations). In tape 
saturation it's probably not strictly correct but the shape is smooth and 
distortion increases gradually so it largely does the job.

> For any FPGA implementation the question therefore is how to get tanh()
> as cheap as possible. Maybe just shaping the upper 8 bits of the

Use a small lookup table with linear interpolation. You only need one side 
since it's symmetric and I assume bit operations are dirt cheap in FPGA 
(abs and neg). If you want slightly better sound, add a small DC offset 
before the tanh (different offset for each stage).

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Tue Dec  9 13:19:22 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:19:22 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] -- Pro one clone ? --
In-Reply-To: <000d01c959f5$162c2060$42846120$@com>
References: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>
	<000001c959e9$f39bb610$dad32230$@com>
	<88819D1671114A398B071BC2B2F02BE0@esaad.esa.int>
	<000d01c959f5$162c2060$42846120$@com>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091418260.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, George Hearn wrote:

> I'm interested in the answer to this if anyone knows!  George

Perhaps it uses CEM3396, which is just 2 DCOs, 4 pole filter and a VCA in 
one chip.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From Chris at crystalvision.tv  Tue Dec  9 13:51:50 2008
From: Chris at crystalvision.tv (Chris Strellis)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:51:50 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] -- Pro one clone ? --
In-Reply-To: <000d01c959f5$162c2060$42846120$@com>
References: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>	<000001c959e9$f39bb610$dad32230$@com><88819D1671114A398B071BC2B2F02BE0@esaad.esa.int>
	<000d01c959f5$162c2060$42846120$@com>
Message-ID: <77638F7A1E0E0A48B3E118AF250D1FC8B4A59D@crystalvision02.Crystal.local>

Hi George,

> I'm interested in the answer to this if anyone knows!  George

From: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb08/articles/dsiprophet08.htm

Knowing that the traditional CEM chips used in the early Prophets no
longer exist in significant quantities, I asked Smith how the Prophet
'08 came to have Curtis filters. He told me: "We're using a customised
part that Doug Curtis designed a few years back for the Evolver. As you
may know, Doug passed away recently, but his company, OnChip Systems,
are still manufacturing the chips for us. The part is similar to the one
that Tom Oberheim used in his 'Marion' series of synths a few years
back, which in turn was a variation of an older CEM part. In my opinion,
this filter has a ballsier sound - I usually avoid using descriptors
like that, but everyone knows what it means - than the CEM3320s we used
in the later Prophet 5s, the Prophet 10, and the Pro One, and I think
that this is noticeable if you compare the Prophet 08 to the older
synths."

Cheers

Chris

(we met at SDIY UK 2008)

http://www.strellis.com




From julian at port23.co.uk  Tue Dec  9 14:11:36 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:11:36 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Evolver DCO construction (was: Pro one clone)
References: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>	<000001c959e9$f39bb610$dad32230$@com><88819D1671114A398B071BC2B2F02BE0@esaad.esa.int><000d01c959f5$162c2060$42846120$@com>
	<77638F7A1E0E0A48B3E118AF250D1FC8B4A59D@crystalvision02.Crystal.local>
Message-ID: <A4BA957354D445F2920B4BC5BC0B3399@legba>

Hijacking the thread, i remember a conversation i was having with someone a while back -

The DSI website states that the DCOs on the evolver are 2 analogue and 2 digital per voice, however, the person whom i was speaking 
with was somewhat dubious of this statement, as they had opened up an evolver, and said that they could see no suggestion of 
anything other than DSP chips coupled to DACs.

So, my query is does anyone know how the affore mentioned "analogue" DCOs are built in the evolvers, and to what extent is the term 
"analogue" being, well, umm, stretched?

Thanks, Julian 



From steve at willacy.co.uk  Tue Dec  9 14:37:30 2008
From: steve at willacy.co.uk (Steve Carter)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:37:30 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] IC Sockets
Message-ID: <AFDE1035-5912-41A7-8295-8EA1D2A6555A@willacy.co.uk>

There was some posting recently about IC sockets. Anyway, CPC have a  
clearance offer of 14 pin IC sockets for 1p each.  I ordered 100 of  
them and they seem fine.

Order code is SCS-14C361 and website link is:

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/bespoke/bespoke2.jsp?bespokepage=cpc/en_CC/special_offers/bargains/bargain_components6.jsp

It is the 5th item from the bottom of the list

Cheers for now

Steve


From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Tue Dec  9 14:41:34 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:41:34 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091540190.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Ian Fritz wrote:

> Ken did a superb, thorough study of this.  It's really depressing that 
> nobody seems to believe his results.

I seem to have missed this. Can someone post a url to the results? (Which 
of course include detailed explanations of the tests, right? (*))

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova

*: Any study which only says "Here are the results, but we're not telling 
you exactly how we got them" is largely useless.


From louis at dompselaar.org  Tue Dec  9 14:41:49 2008
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:41:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] IC Sockets
In-Reply-To: <AFDE1035-5912-41A7-8295-8EA1D2A6555A@willacy.co.uk>
References: <AFDE1035-5912-41A7-8295-8EA1D2A6555A@willacy.co.uk>
Message-ID: <493E759D.3040300@dompselaar.org>

It only says
"We are sorry, product SCS14C361, cannot be ordered online. Please call 08701 20 
25 30"
when I try to order it.

Maybe UK only?


> There was some posting recently about IC sockets. Anyway, CPC have a 
> clearance offer of 14 pin IC sockets for 1p each.  I ordered 100 of them 
> and they seem fine.
> 
> Order code is SCS-14C361 and website link is:
> 
> http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/bespoke/bespoke2.jsp?bespokepage=cpc/en_CC/special_offers/bargains/bargain_components6.jsp 


From Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com  Tue Dec  9 14:50:47 2008
From: Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:50:47 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] IC Sockets
In-Reply-To: <493E759D.3040300@dompselaar.org>
References: <AFDE1035-5912-41A7-8295-8EA1D2A6555A@willacy.co.uk>
	<493E759D.3040300@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DC7F@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>

Hi,

> It only says
> "We are sorry, product SCS14C361, cannot be ordered online. Please
call
> 08701 20
> 25 30"
> when I try to order it.
> 
> Maybe UK only?

No; I'm getting the same message in the UK.
-- 
Jason Tribbeck



From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Dec  9 14:55:16 2008
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:55:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200812091354.mB9DsSlp005998@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

If you could kindly repost the links and/or files, I, for one, would 
certainly appreciate it.

John


At 02:28 AM 12/9/2008, Ken Elhardt wrote:
>I think we have seen an answer to this question along with a bunch of
>audio files posted to back it up, and that is there isn't anything
>special about the first generation Moog VCO, and that any
>unstableness/drift or noise can easily be programmed into any VCO.
>
>John Mahoney writes:
> > I tend to agree with you in that I don't understand why a small amount of
> > noise can't be used to introduce some artificial instability. What is it
> > about the variation in a JH Living" VCO -- or a first-generation R.A.Moog
> > VCO -- that can't be replicated with a little well-placed noise. But, this
> > is an old question that I haven't seen an answer to.



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Tue Dec  9 15:30:24 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:30:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Evolver DCO construction (was: Pro one clone)
Message-ID: <20081209143025.FJZE22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

Hi,

After a spot of googling:

   http://prophet5.org/prophet08/

Found while searching the synth-diy archive funnily enough, which you can find here:

   http://search.retrosynth.com/synth-diy/index.html

Search for "dave smith prophet08" and click on the first hit.

You can see some close-up photos of the Prophet08 PCBs.

As per the page here

   http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/products/med/

"It features two analog oscillators and two digital oscillators utilizing the waves from the legendary Prophet VS".

So in simple terms its your traditional sample-&-synthesis engine (analogue synthesis, digital sample).

All the above is based on details found online - I don't have an Evolver to prove any of the above.  Google is your friend.

Neil


--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk

-----------------------------------------
Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email
Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam



From vjhl2000 at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  9 15:45:39 2008
From: vjhl2000 at hotmail.com (Vesa Lahteenmaki)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:45:39 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they
	made?) resin casting
In-Reply-To: <493E16D4.9050306@imt.net>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081209025552.GJ28820@moo.sysabend.org>	<493DF5BD.4030708@imt.net>
	<d384bef90812082216jefdd190m796681c22defd27a@mail.gmail.com>
	<493E16D4.9050306@imt.net>  
Message-ID: <BAY109-W362B0CDD1D214DFB57AF70D5FA0@phx.gbl>


Resin casting parts in silicone molds is very popular thing in scale model hobby these days.
There are a lot of info available online, a lot of videos in youtube etc
 
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=resin+casting&search_type=&aq=f

instructional dvd
http://www.reproduce100s.com/ 
 
few examples of starter kits available 
 
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=82698 
http://www.bare-metal.com/Mold-Making-Resin-Casting-Starter-Kit.html
http://www.alumilite.com/

 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/casting/ 
 
Copying a part isn't too difficult, but thin parts will be fragile.     
_________________________________________________________________
Liity nyt uuteen Windows Live Messenger perheeseen
http://get.live.com


From james at ticalun.net  Tue Dec  9 15:56:29 2008
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:56:29 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <A2300475F1C7413BBDCC2796DC9BF4DE@jhsilent>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl><58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent><493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl><AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent><493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl><ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent><493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<A2300475F1C7413BBDCC2796DC9BF4DE@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <019c01c95a0e$51b554d0$f51ffe70$@net>

I'd be interested if these ended up in PCBs.  Almost all of my oscillators
are from my Serge and their clinical precision, nearly complete lack of
drift (none that I ever hear anyhow) typically leave me wanting some more
"meat".  These seem perfect to me.  Sign me up for at least two if it
happens.

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of JH.
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:18 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; John Mahoney
Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?

>>Do you mean variation of the frequency with time? Or, as it says on
>>your web page, "randomness", "unstability", "instability" or "noisyness".
>>If that is what you mean I think this "character" is not for me. I
>>would prefer a VCO that is stable and clean in the first place where
>>you can add a controllable amount of randomness, noise etc.
>
>MOTM has got you covered, then!

I have a MOTM VCO, and I love it!

And I have these totally different VCOs in my JH-5, and in my VCS 3 clone, 
and love them too, for entirely different reason.

JH.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From steve at willacy.co.uk  Tue Dec  9 16:34:24 2008
From: steve at willacy.co.uk (Steve Carter)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:34:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] IC Sockets
In-Reply-To: <493E759D.3040300@dompselaar.org>
References: <AFDE1035-5912-41A7-8295-8EA1D2A6555A@willacy.co.uk>
	<493E759D.3040300@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <BC9F5300-04C0-4172-A6C2-CC6403704FE8@willacy.co.uk>

When I got mine I placed a phone order with them - I didn't realise  
that they wouldn't accept a web order - seems strange. Sorry for  
leading you down the garden path.
Steve

On 9 Dec 2008, at 13:41, Louis van Dompselaar wrote:

> It only says
> "We are sorry, product SCS14C361, cannot be ordered online. Please  
> call 08701 20 25 30"
> when I try to order it.
>
> Maybe UK only?



From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Dec  9 16:40:18 2008
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 10:40:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <019c01c95a0e$51b554d0$f51ffe70$@net>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<A2300475F1C7413BBDCC2796DC9BF4DE@jhsilent>
	<019c01c95a0e$51b554d0$f51ffe70$@net>
Message-ID: <200812091539.mB9FdURm007099@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

At 09:56 AM 12/9/2008, James R. Coplin wrote:
>I'd be interested if these ended up in PCBs.  Almost all of my oscillators
>are from my Serge and their clinical precision, nearly complete lack of
>drift (none that I ever hear anyhow) typically leave me wanting some more
>"meat".  These seem perfect to me.  Sign me up for at least two if it
>happens.
>
>James R. Coplin

Wow, James, that's the closest I've seen you come to criticizing the 
Serge! (Which apparently means that you are pretty darn happy, overall.)

John



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Tue Dec  9 17:20:54 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:20:54 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Evolver DCO construction (was: Pro one clone)
In-Reply-To: <A4BA957354D445F2920B4BC5BC0B3399@legba>
References: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>
	<77638F7A1E0E0A48B3E118AF250D1FC8B4A59D@crystalvision02.Crystal.local>
	<A4BA957354D445F2920B4BC5BC0B3399@legba>
Message-ID: <20081209162054.GL28820@moo.sysabend.org>

On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 01:11:36PM -0000, Julian wrote:
> The DSI website states that the DCOs on the evolver are 2 analogue and 2 digital per voice, however, the person whom i was speaking 
> with was somewhat dubious of this statement, as they had opened up an evolver, and said that they could see no suggestion of 
> anything other than DSP chips coupled to DACs.

I got to see one of the Evolver prototype boards at an AES meeting a while
back.  It had a Marion chip on it.  Basically a CEM with I think two VCOs
and two Filters.  If I remember it actually had two, but one the VCOs were
not used on.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Tue Dec  9 17:28:27 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:28:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <269603.72314.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Nobody believed his results?
Arent programed ustability a well known design implementation
strategy among any vco designers, soft as hard?

At least for me it has for years.

KD

--- Den tis 2008-12-09 skrev Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net>:

> Fr?n: Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
> Till: "Ken Elhardt" <ken.elhardt at gmail.com>, "John Mahoney" <jmahoney at gate.net>
> Kopia: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Datum: tisdag 9 december 2008 14.12
> At 12:28 AM 12/9/2008, Ken Elhardt wrote:
> >I think we have seen an answer to this question along
> with a bunch of
> >audio files posted to back it up, and that is there
> isn't anything
> >special about the first generation Moog VCO, and that
> any
> >unstableness/drift or noise can easily be programmed
> into any VCO.
> 
> Ken did a superb, thorough study of this.  It's really
> depressing that 
> nobody seems to believe his results.
> 
> Ian 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014



From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Dec  9 17:35:16 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:35:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<A2300475F1C7413BBDCC2796DC9BF4DE@jhsilent>
	<a6fac3a00812090001i4208e551ma265f6a1700d7d01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23B9BD5DA1DF4B28AA2ED8D0472F8E25@jhsilent>

> My guess is that the "living VCO" is not just a standard VCO with a noise
> source attached.

Right. 

>JH, will there be schematics if a pcb run is done?

Sure!

JH.



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Tue Dec  9 17:40:25 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:40:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
In-Reply-To: <493DFD85.9020203@cox.net>
References: <493DFD85.9020203@cox.net>
Message-ID: <200812091740.25543.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Tuesday 09 December 2008, Jim Patchell wrote:
> Hope y'all aren't getting tired of these progress reports.

Not at all, just keep going. :-)

[...]
> Now, also to give you an idea of exactly what I am doing, this is
> basically the same kind of filter you would make with an
> SSM2040...without, unfortunately, the non-linear distortion that is
> inherent in the SSM2040.  I am not sure if I will be able to add a
> non-linearity in the filter loop or not.  That may be some future
> experiment.

If you haven't used up all BRAM resources you could pipeline through a 
LUT set up in block RAM (you will likely need to do some 
interpolation to keep the precision).  Using an LUT would have the 
added benefit that you could try out tanh distortion just as well as 
completely arbitrary waveshaping.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptations for Waldorf Q V3.00R3 and Q+ V3.54R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada



From dbetz at xlisper.com  Tue Dec  9 17:42:08 2008
From: dbetz at xlisper.com (David Betz)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:42:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
In-Reply-To: <608bfe540812041100x388fedbdy4b52051b20bff68a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY144-W327B709CBC63F4A2B2C6CEC8020@phx.gbl>
	<608bfe540812040619m5410c94doedcdd0fa155cf98b@mail.gmail.com>
	<074277F8-DFB8-41C8-AB59-FB33F22B77E9@xlisper.com>
	<608bfe540812041100x388fedbdy4b52051b20bff68a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <748B37D1-128F-4B94-862E-5D94C81F0BB6@xlisper.com>

On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:00 PM, John Luciani wrote:

>>>> 4. A GOOD soldering iron (with temp control,etc)
>>>
>>> Metcal SP200 from HMC Electronics ~ $220 (new). You could check  
>>> ebay.

Since the Metcal SP-200 seems to cost over $300 now I'm wondering if  
anyone here has had experience with the Metcal PS-900. It is only a  
little over $200 without a tip. Does anyone know how it compares with  
the SP-200?

Also, what size tip is best for mostly through-hole soldering with the  
occasional SMT device?


From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Tue Dec  9 17:59:47 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:59:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200812091759.47990.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Tuesday 09 December 2008, Ken Elhardt wrote:
> I'm wondering how it appears so easy for the Technology Transplant
> guy on ebay to make reproductions of vintage synth knobs, buttons,
> switches and so on.  I was under the impression that getting some
> custom plastic part fabricated from scratch was expensive, but he's
> got all kinds of stuff.  Does anybody know the process a private
> individual would have to go through to make a reproduction of a
> Jupiter-8 knob in quantity for example?  Are the costs reasonable?

Making the mold is most expensive (especially if it requires more then 
two pieces), then comes keeping it in storage and setting up for 
production.  You would probably look at low four-figure numbers for 
simple knobs.  Once set up for production the shop will probably 
require you to make a few hours worth of production or else charge 
extra for setting up and taking down.  Assume one shift worth of 
work, setting you back another $1000 or so and landing several 
thousand knobs in your lap.  Most shops will have a few mold makers 
at hand to fork that work out.  You can skip a few dollars if you 
don't specify too long of a mold life, which is generally measured in 
how many shots you expect to get from it (this allows the mold maker 
to use cheaper and more easily shapeable material).

For most knob designs resin casting (into silicone or powder casts) 
would probably be a cheaper alternative especially if you only need a 
handful.  The downside however is that the form is much more 
restricted and the parts need more work to get the surface finish 
right.  If you expect bubble free results you also need a vacuum box, 
otherwise you can easily do this in your garage if you don't mind a 
few chemical smells.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

DIY Stuff:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/DIY.html



From jluciani at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 18:03:55 2008
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:03:55 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY xmas gifts??
In-Reply-To: <748B37D1-128F-4B94-862E-5D94C81F0BB6@xlisper.com>
References: <BAY144-W327B709CBC63F4A2B2C6CEC8020@phx.gbl>
	<608bfe540812040619m5410c94doedcdd0fa155cf98b@mail.gmail.com>
	<074277F8-DFB8-41C8-AB59-FB33F22B77E9@xlisper.com>
	<608bfe540812041100x388fedbdy4b52051b20bff68a@mail.gmail.com>
	<748B37D1-128F-4B94-862E-5D94C81F0BB6@xlisper.com>
Message-ID: <608bfe540812090903w96c33ccs353d2af5f5b48e2f@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:42 AM, David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.com> wrote:
> On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:00 PM, John Luciani wrote:
>
>>>>> 4. A GOOD soldering iron (with temp control,etc)
>>>>
>>>> Metcal SP200 from HMC Electronics ~ $220 (new). You could check ebay.
>
> Since the Metcal SP-200 seems to cost over $300 now I'm wondering if anyone
> here has had experience with the Metcal PS-900. It is only a little over
> $200 without a tip. Does anyone know how it compares with the SP-200?
>
> Also, what size tip is best for mostly through-hole soldering with the
> occasional SMT device?

The Metcal irons have a very quick response time so you use
a smaller tip. I use the 20mil tip for TH and SMD (pitches down to 0.5mm).
The tip part number is SSC-754A (30deg bend, 20mil wide).
I little larger for some of the TH stuff would be nice but it is
not a problem. Pictures of the typical boards that I build are
at www.wiblocks.com

(* jcl *)

--
http://www.wiblocks.com
http://www.luciani.org


From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Dec  9 18:07:21 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 18:07:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>

Guys, I didn't intend to start another "which VCO is better, or are they all 
the same" debate.
I didn't feel overly comfortable in any previous rounds on similar topics.
Things being different doesn't make them better or worse, and I don't intend 
to convince anyone who thinks there is no difference to start with. And I 
don't claim to reproduce any specific difference, either.
I have my own theories about certain differences, and while I don't claim 
I'd have understood them all, I tried to implement these parts I think I've 
understood, and I like the results.

For me it's as simple as this: If there's demand for that certain flavor of 
VCOs, I'm going to offer it.
If not, it's not the end of the world either ...

JH.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Brouwer" <simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?



Ian Fritz schreef:
> At 12:28 AM 12/9/2008, Ken Elhardt wrote:
>>I think we have seen an answer to this question along with a bunch of
>>audio files posted to back it up, and that is there isn't anything
>>special about the first generation Moog VCO, and that any
>>unstableness/drift or noise can easily be programmed into any VCO.
>
> Ken did a superb, thorough study of this.  It's really depressing that
> nobody seems to believe his results.

You can count me as a believer :)

See also
http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25433&sid=2cae0a12e3742b1c4432076be144e4e9
(search for "Why a Moog sounds like a Moog")

I think a VCO with low jitter and drift is more flexible because you could
still add (controllable amounts of) jitter and drift through modulation if
you want it, while you can also choose not to if you don't.

OTOH this would require additional circuits and/or patchcords etc. I can
see how musicians with sufficient space and resources might find find it
convenient to have some (extra) VCO's with mischief already built in.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Tue Dec  9 18:32:15 2008
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:32:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Where to get 566's
Message-ID: <329485.10347.qm@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Do they exist anywhere??

Karl


      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014



From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Dec  9 18:40:45 2008
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:40:45 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>
References: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <200812091739.mB9HdvPS008135@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

At 12:07 PM 12/9/2008, JH. wrote:
>...
>For me it's as simple as this: If there's demand for that certain flavor of
>VCOs, I'm going to offer it.

I think that's how most of us see it, JH.  :-)

John



From patchell at cox.net  Tue Dec  9 18:46:23 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 09:46:23 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
In-Reply-To: <200812091740.25543.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <493DFD85.9020203@cox.net> <200812091740.25543.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <493EAEEF.8080104@cox.net>

Now that is a really cool idea.  Not sure at this point exactly how many 
BRams I have left.  But that would be a very good use for one of them....

-Jim

ASSI wrote:
> On Tuesday 09 December 2008, Jim Patchell wrote:
>> Hope y'all aren't getting tired of these progress reports.
> 
> Not at all, just keep going. :-)
> 
> [...]
>> Now, also to give you an idea of exactly what I am doing, this is
>> basically the same kind of filter you would make with an
>> SSM2040...without, unfortunately, the non-linear distortion that is
>> inherent in the SSM2040.  I am not sure if I will be able to add a
>> non-linearity in the filter loop or not.  That may be some future
>> experiment.
> 
> If you haven't used up all BRAM resources you could pipeline through a 
> LUT set up in block RAM (you will likely need to do some 
> interpolation to keep the precision).  Using an LUT would have the 
> added benefit that you could try out tanh distortion just as well as 
> completely arbitrary waveshaping.
> 
> 
> Achim.

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From jdec at mindspring.com  Tue Dec  9 19:31:53 2008
From: jdec at mindspring.com (BrightBoy)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:31:53 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [sdiy] FS: SDIY Books
Message-ID: <20318790.1228847516056.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Just in time for Christmas - the following books are available
for immediate purchase:

----------------------------------------------------------------

THE ART OF ELECTRONICS
By Horowitz/Hill
2nd Edition - Hardcover w/ DJ - 1125 Pages

Condition: Light Edge Wear to Dust Jacket, Near-Mint Book, 
Tight Binding, No Writing, Minimal Yellow (faded) Highlighting 
(found in less than 15 sentences in the first 3rd the book)

Price: $41 USD + $9 Flat Rate Priority Mail Shipping

----------------------------------------------------------------

MUSICAL APPLICATIONS OF MICROPROCESSORS
By Hal Chamberlin
2nd Edition - Hardcover w/ DJ - 802 Pages

Don't let the name fool you. This long out-of-print book
is a bible of analog, digital and analog/digital hybrid 
synthesizer design, complete with circuit theory and 
schematics.

The general contents can be viewed here:

http://www.mindspring.com/~jdec/book/MAM.jpg

Condition: new-old-stock, mint, unread, un-opened,
time machine quality straight from the original Hayden Books
shipping container.

Price: $50 USD + Shipping (Domestic or Intl Priority Mail)

----------------------------------------------------------------

I accept payment via PayPal (no extra fees) or via US Postal
Money Order.  Books ship from from 48130 (United States)

Contact me privately if you are interested or have any further
questions.

Cheers,

Jeff





From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Dec  9 19:32:24 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:32:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>
References: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081209112126.020fdd38@mail.comcast.net>

At 10:07 AM 12/9/2008, JH. wrote:
>Guys, I didn't intend to start another "which VCO is better, or are they all
>the same" debate.
>I didn't feel overly comfortable in any previous rounds on similar topics.
>Things being different doesn't make them better or worse, and I don't intend
>to convince anyone who thinks there is no difference to start with. And I
>don't claim to reproduce any specific difference, either.

Ok, sure, fine.  But you are selling something as being significantly 
different (living vs dead!) without giving any evidence this difference 
exists.  Couldn't you just post a little sound clip that demonstrates what 
you are talking about?  I'm not saying there aren't any differences, just 
that nobody has ever given evidence of them, that I have seen.  Why is this 
so hard to do if there are significant effects?  Sorry, I just don't get it.

Ian 



From bdu at fdiskc.com  Tue Dec  9 19:33:48 2008
From: bdu at fdiskc.com (Brandon Daniel)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:33:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <a967aa240812091033n6d7272e3m496dd49cde23834a@mail.gmail.com>

Not specifically at Ian, but at the thread in general:

I don't think it's a case of nobody believing that any instability can
be programmed into an otherwise stable oscillator. Of course it can be
done, and it's being done in many commercially-available virtual
analog synthesizers.

IMO, as someone who finds use for oscillators of the stable and
unstable variety, in the cases where I want an unstable oscillator,
I'd rather just patch in a different oscillator than use other modules
to create that instability in a stable one.

In short, different strokes for different folks, if you like your
oscillators stable and occasionally programmed for instability, these
oscs aren't for you, but I don't see the point in loudly proclaiming
that nobody has a need for them just because you don't.

-Brandon

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:42 AM, Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net> wrote:

> Ken did a superb, thorough study of this.  It's really depressing that
> nobody seems to believe his results.
>
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From lists at studionebula.com  Tue Dec  9 19:40:50 2008
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:40:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <200812091739.mB9HdvPS008135@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <011a01c95a2d$a972f000$1102a8c0@Mariko>

 
> At 12:07 PM 12/9/2008, JH. wrote:
> >...
> >For me it's as simple as this: If there's demand for that certain 
> >flavor of VCOs, I'm going to offer it.
> 
> I think that's how most of us see it, JH.  :-)
> 
> John

I agree. Unfortunately flavor is not something that can be conveyed well via
written description. Maybe it's even too subtle to survive being translated
into a compressed audio format and back. Personally I think it will boil
down to this: there are some number of people who will be interested in
building a JH VCO just because it's a JH VCO, or because the notion of
building a different VCO up from a PCB appeals to them. The question is
whether or not there are enough of these people to make it worthwhile for JH
to produce the boards. Speaking only for myself, I've been thinking lately
that I could use another VCO in my modular, so adding one that's different
from my MOTM VCOs is rather appealing--not because I have anything against
my MOTM VCOs, but I already have five of them so I wouldn't mind introducing
a different flavor to my system. However, I'd first like to have some idea
of the complexity of the project and the availability of the parts. I was
initially very interested in JH's chorus project but after looking at the
PCB layouts I decided that it was a larger project than I'm comfortable
tackling.

So, put me down as a "maybe interested, pending further info." 

--Adam



From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  9 19:45:40 2008
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:45:40 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Where to get 566's
In-Reply-To: <329485.10347.qm@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <329485.10347.qm@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W437151E20AD6C06E8B8E95F5FA0@phx.gbl>


Hey Karl,
You can get them at Small Bear but they're about US$9.25 Http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=704 

> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:32:15 +0000
> From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Where to get 566's
> 
> Do they exist anywhere??
> 
> Karl
> 
> 
>       __________________________________________________________
> L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008


From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Dec  9 19:48:04 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 18:48:04 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Evolver DCO construction (was: Pro one clone)
In-Reply-To: <20081209162054.GL28820@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <0613332FD73A41C88FCA28597BDB344F@esaad.esa.int>
	<77638F7A1E0E0A48B3E118AF250D1FC8B4A59D@crystalvision02.Crystal.local>
	<A4BA957354D445F2920B4BC5BC0B3399@legba>
	<20081209162054.GL28820@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <71A1A911-637E-4291-AB48-BD5E5E428B0B@electricdruid.net>


On 9 Dec 2008, at 16:20, Tom Arnold wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 01:11:36PM -0000, Julian wrote:
>> The DSI website states that the DCOs on the evolver are 2 analogue  
>> and 2 digital per voice, however, the person whom i was speaking
>> with was somewhat dubious of this statement, as they had opened up  
>> an evolver, and said that they could see no suggestion of
>> anything other than DSP chips coupled to DACs.
>
> I got to see one of the Evolver prototype boards at an AES meeting  
> a while
> back.  It had a Marion chip on it.  Basically a CEM with I think  
> two VCOs
> and two Filters.  If I remember it actually had two, but one the  
> VCOs were
> not used on.

There's been discussion of this topic here before. The suspicion at  
that time was that the analogue oscillators are DCOs. I don't think  
I've ever seen a claim that they are VCOs, only that they are  
analogue, which DCOs are (No DAC, and continuous time output - that's  
analogue). The dsPIC processors used for each pair of voices have 32- 
bit digital counters to provide highly accurate reset pulses to the  
basic ramp core DCO. So much so that a "oscillator slop" parameter  
got added.

The archive is here:

http://search.retrosynth.com/synth-diy/

A search for "Roland DCOs" will turn up the most recent discussion,  
but "DCO" alone turns up a lot more.

Regards,
Tom




From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Tue Dec  9 19:50:44 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 18:50:44 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My Sequencer
In-Reply-To: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DBC9@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>
References: <ECFDE9DA-797F-40D8-AB91-303D280DA0E9@synth.net><F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096416@eumail.eu.panavision.com><DECBD4EA-0518-4A86-B8B0-2344E0FFD125@synth.net>
	<A485C307-7960-4DB0-B2BD-5927BE9186A2@synth.net>
	<E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DBC9@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>
Message-ID: <B41FC479-FA01-47D5-9813-AB97A9B15E03@synth.net>

Jason,

   Yeah, it's a lot more stable now, basically I was trying to do too  
much in the IRQ.

Paul

On 9 Dec 2008, at 08:37, Jason Tribbeck wrote:

> Hi,
>
>>  The jitter bug now fixed and I've added 'step length' and 'legato'
>> options ;-
>>
>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NBg3Qrm-NmA
>>
>>  It also now kicks out MIDI clock with start/stop events.
>> The remaining things I have left to do is, MIDI input (for root note
>> and clock) and saving of the sequence to internal flash.
>
> I wasn't sure if the jitter problem was the video streaming when I  
> first
> watched it (I was reasonably sure it was the hardware, but hey, early
> days!) - but that's much more stable.
>
> Are you considering doing major/minor/other chording somehow?
> -- 
> Jason Tribbeck
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Tue Dec  9 19:53:37 2008
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:53:37 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] keeping signals seperate..avoiding noise
References: <491f1e82.02ab100a.314b.ffffda02@mx.google.com><491F24F1.4050206@burnit.co.uk>
	<491F45DD.6070607@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <003701c95a2f$73aa8e90$0301a8c0@OFFICE>

The problem with this method is that it assumes that you will get a `zero 
ohm' contact between each panel and the module rail. In reality there will 
be layers of dirt and oxidation on the rail surface, the panel surface, the 
fixing screw surface and no guarantee that inserting the screw will provide 
good contact between the module and the panel.

Grounding each panel through its attached pcb means that the panel will be 
at true ground potential (assuming no losses etc through the boards and 
power cables) and that all panels will be at the same potential. This means, 
ideally, that the panel would be grounded through either a dedicated ground 
power rail (PANEL GND = PGND) or as close to the power connector on the 
attached board. I believe Oakley modules do the PGND approach although they 
also assume that you do not have a 100% MOTM compatible module in the system 
(MOTM do not split the grounds on the power connector so can't offer a true 
PGND connection). Oakley assumes the 2nd option where he gnd is made at the 
power connector (I think).

In my Panther modules there is a ground strap provided on the pcb that is 
used to ground the associated panel. I don't have PGND (not an option in 
Doepfer compatible systems) and make my panel connection as close to the 
front edge of the pcb as possible for manufacturing convenience.

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
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Please consider the environment before printing this email

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Brouwer" <simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl>
To: "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] keeping signals seperate..avoiding noise


> Seb Francis schreef:
>> Justin Owen wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Laurie Biddulph [elby_designs at ozemail.com.au]
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] keeping signals seperate..avoiding noise
>>>
>>>
>>>> As a matter of good construction, the power supplies for each board 
>>>> should be run direct to the main power supply in
>>>> what is sometimes referred to as `star' fashion. Daisy-chaining from 
>>>> one board to the next will allow noise induced on
>>>> to the lines from one board to be radiated to the others.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Would the same apply to pots wired as volume controls - i.e. where one 
>>> pin goes to Earth/Ground?
>>>
>>
>> No, it only applies when you are drawing current, especially current 
>> spikes, as then the resistance and inductance of the power line causes 
>> the voltage along it to fluctuate.  It different circuits share the same 
>> power line, the spikes will then couple between them.
>>
>> For panel controls it may be better not to use star-earth if they are 
>> also earth-connected through a metal panel as you could get ground loops 
>> (=hum).  When using shielded cable it is normal to connect the earth at 1 
>> end only to avoid ground loops.
> IMO in synthesizer modules the ground of a module should never be 
> connected to its metal panel. The panel should be isolated from the 
> module. The panels should be grounded by connecting one point of the 
> mounting rails to the star point.
>
> -- 
> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Tue Dec  9 19:58:38 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 18:58:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My Sequencer
In-Reply-To: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DBC9@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>
References: <ECFDE9DA-797F-40D8-AB91-303D280DA0E9@synth.net><F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096416@eumail.eu.panavision.com><DECBD4EA-0518-4A86-B8B0-2344E0FFD125@synth.net>
	<A485C307-7960-4DB0-B2BD-5927BE9186A2@synth.net>
	<E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DBC9@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>
Message-ID: <F4A27268-93CB-402B-B319-B576C435419E@synth.net>

Jason,

   Sorry, I forgot to say...
I'm not sure what you mean by major or minor chording? it's only  
monophonic and there's no real way I can get more than one note  
without having too many menus.

Paul

On 9 Dec 2008, at 08:37, Jason Tribbeck wrote:

> Hi,
>
>>  The jitter bug now fixed and I've added 'step length' and 'legato'
>> options ;-
>>
>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NBg3Qrm-NmA
>>
>>  It also now kicks out MIDI clock with start/stop events.
>> The remaining things I have left to do is, MIDI input (for root note
>> and clock) and saving of the sequence to internal flash.
>
> I wasn't sure if the jitter problem was the video streaming when I  
> first
> watched it (I was reasonably sure it was the hardware, but hey, early
> days!) - but that's much more stable.
>
> Are you considering doing major/minor/other chording somehow?
> -- 
> Jason Tribbeck
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From mr at analogue.org  Tue Dec  9 20:24:28 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:24:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040812091124i57235aa5jc275a8f745afa7e3@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/8 JH. <jhaible at debitel.net>:
>>>> ...some of that early Moog and EMS character...
>
>>Other than relative tuning, I think the only way a VCO could exhibit a
>>specific "character" is by the shape of its waveforms.
>
> I would even go further and say: forget the waveforms.

Having read the whole thread, I realize how meaningless it would be to
further discuss VCO character, but when you say a thing like that...
what on earth (GND) do you mean??? :-)

CV tracking linearity, stability over time, and phase-locking to other
nearby circuits - are there more parameters left that could affect the
"character"?

Personally I think that obscure waveform shapes are very important for
adding character to a VCO (and that's why I'm surprised to read your
words above), but since the corresponding errors/features in a VCO
core also gives worse tracking, the waveforms of most available VCOs
are always very similar (nearly perfect). So the strange waveshaping
should probably take place after the core... which it probably does in
the synths that are often said to have "VCOs with character".  0:-)

/mr


From mr at analogue.org  Tue Dec  9 20:25:23 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:25:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <1f4a82040812091124i57235aa5jc275a8f745afa7e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<1f4a82040812091124i57235aa5jc275a8f745afa7e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040812091125o3451c6d5nee0a04188b5ab997@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, I forgot to say that I'd also be interested in such a DIY project. :-)

/mr


From jason at redfish.net  Tue Dec  9 20:41:09 2008
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:41:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <1f4a82040812091125o3451c6d5nee0a04188b5ab997@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<1f4a82040812091124i57235aa5jc275a8f745afa7e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f4a82040812091125o3451c6d5nee0a04188b5ab997@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0620070ec564785d8f87@[10.0.1.3]>

i'm in too. just the fact that it's a JH VCO is enough for me.

i have MOTM and Oakley VCOs and they sound subtly different - though 
i might not be able to tell the difference in a blind test - haha! a 
VCO which is different again would be welcome.


>Oh, I forgot to say that I'd also be interested in such a DIY project. :-)
>
>/mr
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Tue Dec  9 20:47:09 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:47:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <200812091759.47990.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
	<200812091759.47990.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <493ECB3D.2070002@imt.net>

I don't know why mold make is so expensive for some parts.  Especially 
if you have a pattern and it's a tapered part that can be jammed into 
the clay w/ a little silicon on the surface...and pulled out.  The two I 
poured last night...one was pretty good and one had a major bubble but 
that was because I was using epoxe and it was hard to 'knead' it into 
the holes :-).  But I think I got a useable one when it dries 
completely.  Overnight it's still pretty plastic feeling.  When it 
hardens to where I can machine it I should be able to just drill a shaft 
hole and goop it onto the shaft and nobody will ever know the different 
unless they tear it off :-). -Bob

ASSI wrote:

>On Tuesday 09 December 2008, Ken Elhardt wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm wondering how it appears so easy for the Technology Transplant
>>guy on ebay to make reproductions of vintage synth knobs, buttons,
>>switches and so on.  I was under the impression that getting some
>>custom plastic part fabricated from scratch was expensive, but he's
>>got all kinds of stuff.  Does anybody know the process a private
>>individual would have to go through to make a reproduction of a
>>Jupiter-8 knob in quantity for example?  Are the costs reasonable?
>>    
>>
>
>Making the mold is most expensive (especially if it requires more then 
>two pieces), then comes keeping it in storage and setting up for 
>production.  You would probably look at low four-figure numbers for 
>simple knobs.  Once set up for production the shop will probably 
>require you to make a few hours worth of production or else charge 
>extra for setting up and taking down.  Assume one shift worth of 
>work, setting you back another $1000 or so and landing several 
>thousand knobs in your lap.  Most shops will have a few mold makers 
>at hand to fork that work out.  You can skip a few dollars if you 
>don't specify too long of a mold life, which is generally measured in 
>how many shots you expect to get from it (this allows the mold maker 
>to use cheaper and more easily shapeable material).
>
>For most knob designs resin casting (into silicone or powder casts) 
>would probably be a cheaper alternative especially if you only need a 
>handful.  The downside however is that the form is much more 
>restricted and the parts need more work to get the surface finish 
>right.  If you expect bubble free results you also need a vacuum box, 
>otherwise you can easily do this in your garage if you don't mind a 
>few chemical smells.
>
>
>Achim.
>  
>


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Tue Dec  9 20:48:30 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:48:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Where to get 566's
In-Reply-To: <329485.10347.qm@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <329485.10347.qm@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <493ECB8E.4090407@imt.net>

I have some left for repairs.  They don't go bad too often but I like to 
keep a few around.  Probably better solutions though for fabricating 
things. -Bob

Karl Ekdahl wrote:

>Do they exist anywhere??
>
>Karl
>
>
>      __________________________________________________________
>L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
>http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Dec  9 20:59:27 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:59:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209112126.020fdd38@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <788CDD930C7841D5B51956E98123BFBB@jhsilent>

>Ok, sure, fine.  But you are selling something as being significantly
>different (living vs dead!)

Sorry about that. I did in no way intend to call anything else "dead".
I mean, when I say I'm alive and I love being alive, this doesn't imply 
everybode else is dead. Surely not.

> Couldn't you just post a little sound clip that demonstrates what
> you are talking about?

Oh, I did.
But it's not a pure VCO sound - it's filtered, and delay and reverb added.
It's a clip I resurrected from a demo I had initially recorded to 
demonstrate the filter, and which, by coincidence, used these three VCOs 
people keep asking me about.

JH. 



From derek at umatic.nl  Tue Dec  9 21:19:47 2008
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:19:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] eurozone black plastic fluted knobs
Message-ID: <493ED2E3.7070306@umatic.nl>

Looking for a EU supplier of these 3/4" black plastic fluted knobs:

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=644

This style is used by ZVex pedals and LiveWire modules, among others.

Small Bear is out of stock, and the only ones from Mouser are 0.91" and 
are just a bit too large. Suggestions appreciated!

Best!
D.

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 199:
"What would make this really successful?"


From mr at analogue.org  Tue Dec  9 21:20:58 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 21:20:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040812091220k68401ca5k532d76fb580b9dab@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/9 Ken Elhardt <ken.elhardt at gmail.com>:
>...
> Just a few examples of stuff he offers below.  I'm tempted to buy his
> reproductions over new boring stuff from Mouser/Digikey.  And his
> prices aren't bad compared to new designs either.
>...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/roland-JP-4-Jupiter-4-SLIDER-KNOB-set-NEW-repro-parts_W0QQitemZ290271267202QQ

I've also felt tempted to buy these Jupiter-4 / SH series slider caps,
since they are far nicer in my planned synth than the new designs that
I've seen so far.

But I'm unsure if these slider caps really have a metal insert like
the originals, or if it's just a painted white line. It says "Exact
Replacement Replicas", but in the photo it looks white to me... if the
pic is not overexposed. Hard to know. Has anybody bought them, and
knows the truth?


/mr


From blincoln at eventualdecline.com  Tue Dec  9 21:45:35 2008
From: blincoln at eventualdecline.com (Ben Lincoln)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:45:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <493ECB3D.2070002@imt.net>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
	<200812091759.47990.Stromeko@nexgo.de> <493ECB3D.2070002@imt.net>
Message-ID: <227cdf0c8419f0a155f5878ef5e019dd.squirrel@webmail.eventualdecline.com>

I imagine that for mass-production, the maker is actually machining metal
to create an injection mold. I assume they're using CNC, which means
having a CAD/CAM engineer model the mold and then transform it into
instructions for the robot. So it's time-consuming *and* requires skilled
labour.

It does mean that once you have the tooling, making individual parts is
very cheap, as the listed prices attest. The results are also much more
consistent than garage-molded parts, as much as I like garage work.

On Tue, December 9, 2008 11:47 am, Bob Weigel wrote:
> I don't know why mold make is so expensive for some parts.  Especially
> if you have a pattern and it's a tapered part that can be jammed into
> the clay w/ a little silicon on the surface...and pulled out.  The two I
> poured last night...one was pretty good and one had a major bubble but
> that was because I was using epoxe and it was hard to 'knead' it into
> the holes :-).  But I think I got a useable one when it dries
> completely.  Overnight it's still pretty plastic feeling.  When it
> hardens to where I can machine it I should be able to just drill a shaft
> hole and goop it onto the shaft and nobody will ever know the different
> unless they tear it off :-). -Bob




From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Dec  9 22:01:56 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 21:01:56 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] eurozone black plastic fluted knobs
In-Reply-To: <493ED2E3.7070306@umatic.nl>
References: <493ED2E3.7070306@umatic.nl>
Message-ID: <B75E1528-96C9-4E05-AF69-B25B8FACB963@electricdruid.net>

Banzai Music in Germany have them, or something very similar. They  
call them "Eagle" knobs, and have a selection of sizes. In fact,  
Banzai are not a bad place for knobs all round.

http://www.banzaieffects.com/Knobs-c-322.html

HTH,
T.



On 9 Dec 2008, at 20:19, Derek Holzer wrote:

> Looking for a EU supplier of these 3/4" black plastic fluted knobs:
>
> http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=644
>
> This style is used by ZVex pedals and LiveWire modules, among others.
>
> Small Bear is out of stock, and the only ones from Mouser are 0.91"  
> and are just a bit too large. Suggestions appreciated!
>
> Best!
> D.
>
> -- 
> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/ 
> macumbista
> ---Oblique Strategy # 199:
> "What would make this really successful?"
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Tue Dec  9 22:02:05 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:02:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091407100.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <200812091107.mB9B7B7w026964@linux7.lan>	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0812091211540.12401@i82pc05>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091407100.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <493EDCCD.30607@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Antti Huovilainen skrev:
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Rainer Buchty wrote:
> 
>> For me, it was amazing to see that whenever the attribute "warmth" comes
>> up, it is related to a tanh()-shaped compression function, no matter
>> whether it's tube-based distortion, analog tape saturation, or
>> distortion within the filter.
> 
> Tanh has nothing to do with tubes.

Agreed...

> Quite asymmetric curves there (just 
> to nitpick). For differential transistor circuits it can be derived 
> directly from the transfer function (with only minor approximations).

To nitpick some more... the transistors do not display tanh curves 
themselfs, they have exp responses. It is the result of a balanced 
transistor pair that produces the tanh response. A tube-pair would 
produce something similar if hooked up similar, which is not that 
uncommmon actually. Quad-II amps and HP200CD oscillators spring to mind.

When the transitor has the classical NP-relation

I = I_s * [ exp (qV/kT) - 1 ]

the tube has a similar behaviour

I = k * (E_k + my * E_g)^3/2

The diffrential forms look kind of similar...

However, there exist many tube circuits that are not balanced, and then the

> In 
> tape saturation it's probably not strictly correct but the shape is 
> smooth and distortion increases gradually so it largely does the job.

It is fairly smooth, but fine-grained it is not... hence the need for 
bias signal and also the noise.

>> For any FPGA implementation the question therefore is how to get tanh()
>> as cheap as possible. Maybe just shaping the upper 8 bits of the
> 
> Use a small lookup table with linear interpolation. You only need one 
> side since it's symmetric and I assume bit operations are dirt cheap in 
> FPGA (abs and neg).

Sounds reasnoble. Another approach is to use a lookup table to provide a 
multiplicative term for the signal. Could potentially provide good 
quality for a smaller table.

Cheers,
Magnus


From mverbos at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  9 22:03:04 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:03:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <1f4a82040812091124i57235aa5jc275a8f745afa7e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<1f4a82040812091124i57235aa5jc275a8f745afa7e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <754A11AD-6675-45B2-BBE6-472D3501D333@earthlink.net>


On Dec 9, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Mattias Rickardsson wrote:

> 2008/12/8 JH. <jhaible at debitel.net>:
>>>>> ...some of that early Moog and EMS character...
>>
>>> Other than relative tuning, I think the only way a VCO could  
>>> exhibit a
>>> specific "character" is by the shape of its waveforms.
>>
>> I would even go further and say: forget the waveforms.
>
> Having read the whole thread, I realize how meaningless it would be to
> further discuss VCO character, but when you say a thing like that...
> what on earth (GND) do you mean??? :-)
>
> CV tracking linearity, stability over time, and phase-locking to other
> nearby circuits - are there more parameters left that could affect the
> "character"?
>
>

Shouldn't you be talking about short term stability separately from  
long term stability?  That is, just because an oscillator has not  
fallen outof tune after x hours doesn't mean it's not drifting around  
all the time.

Mark





From lists at studionebula.com  Tue Dec  9 22:07:35 2008
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:07:35 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <493ECB3D.2070002@imt.net>
Message-ID: <013301c95a42$29820ce0$1102a8c0@Mariko>

Let us know how it turns out, Bob. I was just thinking that the hard part of
the DIY molding approach might be making the shaft hole. I suppose it might
be possible to tap a hole for a set screw, but the threads might be pretty
fragile. Doing a hole for a D shaft seems quite dicey.

--Adam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Bob Weigel
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM
> To: ASSI
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how 
> are they made?)
> 
> I don't know why mold make is so expensive for some parts.  
> Especially if you have a pattern and it's a tapered part that 
> can be jammed into the clay w/ a little silicon on the 
> surface...and pulled out.  The two I poured last night...one 
> was pretty good and one had a major bubble but that was 
> because I was using epoxe and it was hard to 'knead' it into 
> the holes :-).  But I think I got a useable one when it dries 
> completely.  Overnight it's still pretty plastic feeling.  
> When it hardens to where I can machine it I should be able to 
> just drill a shaft hole and goop it onto the shaft and nobody 
> will ever know the different unless they tear it off :-). -Bob



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Tue Dec  9 22:09:31 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 22:09:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <493ECB3D.2070002@imt.net>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>
	<200812091759.47990.Stromeko@nexgo.de> <493ECB3D.2070002@imt.net>
Message-ID: <200812092209.31301.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Tuesday 09 December 2008, Bob Weigel wrote:
> I don't know why mold make is so expensive for some parts.

I was talking about an extrusion mold, because that's what you'd use 
if you want to do a sizeable number of parts.  This is made out of 
finest steel, not clay, and you actually need to know quite a few 
things to get it done correctly.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf rackAttack:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds



From derek at umatic.nl  Tue Dec  9 22:16:37 2008
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:16:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] eurozone black plastic fluted knobs
In-Reply-To: <B75E1528-96C9-4E05-AF69-B25B8FACB963@electricdruid.net>
References: <493ED2E3.7070306@umatic.nl>
	<B75E1528-96C9-4E05-AF69-B25B8FACB963@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <493EE035.9080903@umatic.nl>

Hi Tom,

thanks for your reply. Banzai was my first stop, but they only have the 
larger 0.91" ones available from Mouser.

best!
d.

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> Banzai Music in Germany have them, or something very similar. They call 
> them "Eagle" knobs, and have a selection of sizes. In fact, Banzai are 
> not a bad place for knobs all round.
> 
> http://www.banzaieffects.com/Knobs-c-322.html
> 
> HTH,
> T.
> 
> 
> 
> On 9 Dec 2008, at 20:19, Derek Holzer wrote:
> 
>> Looking for a EU supplier of these 3/4" black plastic fluted knobs:
>>
>> http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=644
>>
>> This style is used by ZVex pedals and LiveWire modules, among others.
>>
>> Small Bear is out of stock, and the only ones from Mouser are 0.91" 
>> and are just a bit too large. Suggestions appreciated!
>>
>> Best!
>> D.
>>
>> -- 
>> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: 
>> http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
>> ---Oblique Strategy # 199:
>> "What would make this really successful?"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> 
> 
> 

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 169:
"Use filters"


From mr at analogue.org  Tue Dec  9 22:17:51 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 22:17:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <754A11AD-6675-45B2-BBE6-472D3501D333@earthlink.net>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<58611C48AC604E1DA46E1AB70F796F11@jhsilent>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<1f4a82040812091124i57235aa5jc275a8f745afa7e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<754A11AD-6675-45B2-BBE6-472D3501D333@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040812091317u78846d15k41aeaee8d7eeb807@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/9 mark verbos <mverbos at earthlink.net>:
>>
>> CV tracking linearity, stability over time, and phase-locking to other
>> nearby circuits - are there more parameters left that could affect the
>> "character"?
>
> Shouldn't you be talking about short term stability separately from long
> term stability?  That is, just because an oscillator has not fallen outof
> tune after x hours doesn't mean it's not drifting around all the time.

Yep, very different results - I was lazy and grouped the two together. :-)


/mr


From paul.dickow at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 22:30:09 2008
From: paul.dickow at gmail.com (Paul Dickow)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:30:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
Message-ID: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Synth DIYers
I am revamping my MIDI controller into a new box. 2 of the pots are
slider/fader.

I haven't yet cut slider-slot type holes in enclosures yet.
Recommended tricks/rules of thumb? Best tool to use?
I want to make as non-wonky of a slot as I can...try to avoid wobbly
edge. etc. the first time around.

Thank you!
P

-- 
Paul Dickow
STRATEGY
www.community-library.net
www.archigramophone.com
Community Library/Kranky/Audio Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Dec  9 23:14:51 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:14:51 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <788CDD930C7841D5B51956E98123BFBB@jhsilent>
References: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209112126.020fdd38@mail.comcast.net>
	<788CDD930C7841D5B51956E98123BFBB@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081209151234.0212cd68@mail.comcast.net>

At 12:59 PM 12/9/2008, JH. wrote:
> >Ok, sure, fine.  But you are selling something as being significantly
> >different (living vs dead!)
>
>Sorry about that. I did in no way intend to call anything else "dead".
>I mean, when I say I'm alive and I love being alive, this doesn't imply
>everybode else is dead. Surely not.

Surely it implies that you are superior to them in being more alive.

> > Couldn't you just post a little sound clip that demonstrates what
> > you are talking about?
>
>Oh, I did.
>But it's not a pure VCO sound - it's filtered, and delay and reverb added.
>It's a clip I resurrected from a demo I had initially recorded to
>demonstrate the filter, and which, by coincidence, used these three VCOs
>people keep asking me about.

I wasn't able to find it on the page you linked to.  But with so much 
processing, how do we know we are hearing the VCO rather than the processing?

Ian 



From matthew.soffa at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 23:23:21 2008
From: matthew.soffa at gmail.com (Matt Soffa)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:23:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Harry Bissell Guitar Synth PCBs
Message-ID: <e5f6610e0812091423q56a7ccdaw1f1213a3a52bd1fd@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all...

First of all, I'm not a regular poster here or even a regular lurker
(although I might become one or the other!), so I apologize for
jumping in with a request...

I was emailing with Harry Bissell about PCBs for his P-V converter
project and he suggested that I check here to see if anyone had a
board they would be willing to sell. So - does anyone have a board for
the P-V converter (or for that matter, boards for Harry's "Muffy"
fundamental extractor/signal processor/etc) that they aren't planning
on using? If so, shoot me an email off-list at:

soffa at rochester.rr.com

thanks!

matt


From blincoln at eventualdecline.com  Tue Dec  9 23:28:51 2008
From: blincoln at eventualdecline.com (Ben Lincoln)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:28:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64b4c786537f044053a36610e109c273.squirrel@webmail.eventualdecline.com>

I would think a metal-cutting chop saw would be ideal, unless you need
slots wider than the width of the blade. Position the enclosure below the
blade with the lowest point on the blade in the vertical center of where
you want the slot to go, clamp, bring the sawblade down until the slot is
long enough, repeat. You'd probably want to file the two ends of the slot,
but it would be perfectly straight.

You could also use a milling machine with a really small-diameter end mill
tool, after drilling a pilot hole at one end of where you want the slot to
go. This approach could be approximated with a drill press and a lot of
patience by drilling a hole, moving the enclosure a small amount,
re-clamping, drilling again, etc. and then filing the edges of the slot.

If you don't have access to either of those tools, you could use a cutting
wheel on a dremel, but that would be really tedious and prone to wobbly
lines. If I were going to do it that way, I'd plan on a lot of filing all
of the edges of the slot to clean it up. Hopefully someone else has a
better idea there.

On Tue, December 9, 2008 1:30 pm, Paul Dickow wrote:
> Dear Synth DIYers
> I am revamping my MIDI controller into a new box. 2 of the pots are
> slider/fader.
>
> I haven't yet cut slider-slot type holes in enclosures yet.
> Recommended tricks/rules of thumb? Best tool to use?
> I want to make as non-wonky of a slot as I can...try to avoid wobbly
> edge. etc. the first time around.




From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Dec  9 23:38:31 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 23:38:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209112126.020fdd38@mail.comcast.net>
	<788CDD930C7841D5B51956E98123BFBB@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209151234.0212cd68@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <432F6CEA7CD1404189AD3A91DCA39D74@jhsilent>

> I wasn't able to find it on the page you linked to.

http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5_demo_1short.wav

> But with so much  processing, how do we know we are hearing the VCO rather 
> than the processing?

You don't.

Even when you, Ian, may be one of the few persons here who probably has 
heard the JH-5 live when you were in Nuernberg some years ago, it's unlikely 
that I would have turned the reverb off, because I never make any music 
without room simulation.

But I got your point: Before I sell anything, I better create dry samples.

JH.





From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Tue Dec  9 23:54:32 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:54:32 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>

On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 01:30:09PM -0800, Paul Dickow wrote:
> Dear Synth DIYers
> I am revamping my MIDI controller into a new box. 2 of the pots are
> slider/fader.
> 
> I haven't yet cut slider-slot type holes in enclosures yet.
> Recommended tricks/rules of thumb? Best tool to use?
> I want to make as non-wonky of a slot as I can...try to avoid wobbly
> edge. etc. the first time around.

I'm doing this exact thing right now and it has caused me quite a bit of
heartburn just learning how to do it.

My solution was to buy a small mill.  Probably overkill for a one off...

I could find no other method to do the holes cutting DIY without drawing
lines and using a dremel and the like which is not fun I can tell you.
Using a larger metal cutting blade like in a chop saw doesn't work well as
it usually wont even start to fulling penetrate the metal due to the large
diameter of the blade.  Even using the mill I will have to sharpen the ends
by hand so they are square.

Oh, and the heartburn?  Well, if you buy a mill and look at tooling you will
notice there are end mills specifically for aluminum, then people will tell
you that carefull application of lubricant and slow feedrate can bypass the
need for special tooling.  Only half true.  Cutting narrow slots in thin
aluminum really does require that special made-for-aluminum endmill...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Wed Dec 10 00:17:29 2008
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 23:17:29 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <64b4c786537f044053a36610e109c273.squirrel@webmail.eventualdecline.com>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<64b4c786537f044053a36610e109c273.squirrel@webmail.eventualdecline.com>
Message-ID: <000001c95a54$4eed0a40$ecc71ec0$@com>

There is a tool-bit called a 'slot drill' available in all sizes.  It's like
an end mill but can be plunged into the work without a pilot hole.  Find
someone with a milling machine you can borrow and buy the $2 slot drill you
require.  If you want a really nice quality slot with high finished edges
and perfectly straight this would be my recommended method.  George

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Ben Lincoln
Sent: 09 December 2008 22:29
To: Synth DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques

I would think a metal-cutting chop saw would be ideal, unless you need
slots wider than the width of the blade. Position the enclosure below the
blade with the lowest point on the blade in the vertical center of where
you want the slot to go, clamp, bring the sawblade down until the slot is
long enough, repeat. You'd probably want to file the two ends of the slot,
but it would be perfectly straight.

You could also use a milling machine with a really small-diameter end mill
tool, after drilling a pilot hole at one end of where you want the slot to
go. This approach could be approximated with a drill press and a lot of
patience by drilling a hole, moving the enclosure a small amount,
re-clamping, drilling again, etc. and then filing the edges of the slot.

If you don't have access to either of those tools, you could use a cutting
wheel on a dremel, but that would be really tedious and prone to wobbly
lines. If I were going to do it that way, I'd plan on a lot of filing all
of the edges of the slot to clean it up. Hopefully someone else has a
better idea there.

On Tue, December 9, 2008 1:30 pm, Paul Dickow wrote:
> Dear Synth DIYers
> I am revamping my MIDI controller into a new box. 2 of the pots are
> slider/fader.
>
> I haven't yet cut slider-slot type holes in enclosures yet.
> Recommended tricks/rules of thumb? Best tool to use?
> I want to make as non-wonky of a slot as I can...try to avoid wobbly
> edge. etc. the first time around.


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From paul.dickow at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 00:19:11 2008
From: paul.dickow at gmail.com (Paul Dickow)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:19:11 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to everyone for the replies on this. It is SO appreciated.
I should have included the info that I've opted for an ABS enclosure
on this project. Ordinarily I would not, but as a computer peripheral
and non audio device I thought I could go plastic on this one. Any
ideas about whether this will be easier to work with?

For my software music work having those faders is critical, but I can
see that for my synth DIY hardware projects...I'll be sticking with
good old knobs for now!

Fortunately this controller is only 2 faders, so I only have to put
myself through this pain (heartburn) twice! It's a Doepfer Pocket
Electronic outfitted with 14 knobs, 2 sliders. I just wanted to move
the whole setup to a lower profile box with smaller parts...

P

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 01:30:09PM -0800, Paul Dickow wrote:
>> Dear Synth DIYers
>> I am revamping my MIDI controller into a new box. 2 of the pots are
>> slider/fader.
>>
>> I haven't yet cut slider-slot type holes in enclosures yet.
>> Recommended tricks/rules of thumb? Best tool to use?
>> I want to make as non-wonky of a slot as I can...try to avoid wobbly
>> edge. etc. the first time around.
>
> I'm doing this exact thing right now and it has caused me quite a bit of
> heartburn just learning how to do it.
>
> My solution was to buy a small mill.  Probably overkill for a one off...
>
> I could find no other method to do the holes cutting DIY without drawing
> lines and using a dremel and the like which is not fun I can tell you.
> Using a larger metal cutting blade like in a chop saw doesn't work well as
> it usually wont even start to fulling penetrate the metal due to the large
> diameter of the blade.  Even using the mill I will have to sharpen the ends
> by hand so they are square.
>
> Oh, and the heartburn?  Well, if you buy a mill and look at tooling you will
> notice there are end mills specifically for aluminum, then people will tell
> you that carefull application of lubricant and slow feedrate can bypass the
> need for special tooling.  Only half true.  Cutting narrow slots in thin
> aluminum really does require that special made-for-aluminum endmill...
>
> --
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>  - SynthGeek        -
>  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>  --------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
Paul Dickow
STRATEGY
www.community-library.net
www.archigramophone.com
Community Library/Kranky/Audio Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/


From paul.dickow at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 00:19:57 2008
From: paul.dickow at gmail.com (Paul Dickow)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:19:57 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>
	<f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f93c02ec0812091519j17d97850q4984924cf92f1df8@mail.gmail.com>

PS, I'm guessing some of the tooling/thinking/process will be similar
for ABS as it will for aluminum, in any case?

P

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Paul Dickow <paul.dickow at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for the replies on this. It is SO appreciated.
> I should have included the info that I've opted for an ABS enclosure
> on this project. Ordinarily I would not, but as a computer peripheral
> and non audio device I thought I could go plastic on this one. Any
> ideas about whether this will be easier to work with?
>
> For my software music work having those faders is critical, but I can
> see that for my synth DIY hardware projects...I'll be sticking with
> good old knobs for now!
>
> Fortunately this controller is only 2 faders, so I only have to put
> myself through this pain (heartburn) twice! It's a Doepfer Pocket
> Electronic outfitted with 14 knobs, 2 sliders. I just wanted to move
> the whole setup to a lower profile box with smaller parts...
>
> P
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 01:30:09PM -0800, Paul Dickow wrote:
>>> Dear Synth DIYers
>>> I am revamping my MIDI controller into a new box. 2 of the pots are
>>> slider/fader.
>>>
>>> I haven't yet cut slider-slot type holes in enclosures yet.
>>> Recommended tricks/rules of thumb? Best tool to use?
>>> I want to make as non-wonky of a slot as I can...try to avoid wobbly
>>> edge. etc. the first time around.
>>
>> I'm doing this exact thing right now and it has caused me quite a bit of
>> heartburn just learning how to do it.
>>
>> My solution was to buy a small mill.  Probably overkill for a one off...
>>
>> I could find no other method to do the holes cutting DIY without drawing
>> lines and using a dremel and the like which is not fun I can tell you.
>> Using a larger metal cutting blade like in a chop saw doesn't work well as
>> it usually wont even start to fulling penetrate the metal due to the large
>> diameter of the blade.  Even using the mill I will have to sharpen the ends
>> by hand so they are square.
>>
>> Oh, and the heartburn?  Well, if you buy a mill and look at tooling you will
>> notice there are end mills specifically for aluminum, then people will tell
>> you that carefull application of lubricant and slow feedrate can bypass the
>> need for special tooling.  Only half true.  Cutting narrow slots in thin
>> aluminum really does require that special made-for-aluminum endmill...
>>
>> --
>>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>>  - SynthGeek        -
>>  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>>  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>>  --------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Dickow
> STRATEGY
> www.community-library.net
> www.archigramophone.com
> Community Library/Kranky/Audio Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/
>



-- 
Paul Dickow
STRATEGY
www.community-library.net
www.archigramophone.com
Community Library/Kranky/Audio Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Wed Dec 10 00:53:25 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:53:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <432F6CEA7CD1404189AD3A91DCA39D74@jhsilent>
References: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209112126.020fdd38@mail.comcast.net>
	<788CDD930C7841D5B51956E98123BFBB@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209151234.0212cd68@mail.comcast.net>
	<432F6CEA7CD1404189AD3A91DCA39D74@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081209164626.02104ef0@mail.comcast.net>

At 03:38 PM 12/9/2008, JH. wrote:
>... it's unlikely
>that I would have turned the reverb off, because I never make any music
>without room simulation.
>
>But I got your point: Before I sell anything, I better create dry samples.

Thank you.  That's a great sounding demo.  Is it the beating at the end 
that the VCOs are creating?  I agree that demos should usually be done in a 
musical context to show off what can be accomplished.

Out of curiosity, did you find something amiss with Elhardt's previous 
characterization and analysis?  I've only been able to get one sound file 
of an early Moog VCO, and it was an mp3 recorded at fairly low level.  I 
didn't hear anything special about it though.

Ian 



From julian at port23.co.uk  Wed Dec 10 00:59:01 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 23:59:01 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com><20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org><f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>
	<f93c02ec0812091519j17d97850q4984924cf92f1df8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B539F6139D9041CB9CD2444FA71591D1@legba>

Paul,

If youre working by hand, id personally rather make slider holes in aluminium than plastic, as the whole process is that much 
slower, and you can get a nicer finish.
Someone mentioned drilling holes along the line, and then filing the excess.  If youre really carefull you can get good results like 
this.  Ive done cutouts this way that look as if a machine made them.  Use a wider file, and do a lot of checking, and youll get a 
good result.

If youre working with machines, id still preferr the aluminium.  Plastic has a tendancy to melt and ball if youre not very carefull.

Julian







From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Dec 10 01:11:15 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:11:15 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <000001c95a54$4eed0a40$ecc71ec0$@com>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<64b4c786537f044053a36610e109c273.squirrel@webmail.eventualdecline.com>
	<000001c95a54$4eed0a40$ecc71ec0$@com>
Message-ID: <20081210001115.GO28820@moo.sysabend.org>

On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 11:17:29PM -0000, George Hearn wrote:
> There is a tool-bit called a 'slot drill' available in all sizes.  It's like
> an end mill but can be plunged into the work without a pilot hole.  Find
> someone with a milling machine you can borrow and buy the $2 slot drill you
> require.  If you want a really nice quality slot with high finished edges
> and perfectly straight this would be my recommended method.  George

Most 2flute and 4flute end mills are plungable also.    You can tell it is
if at least one pair of flutes is connected in the middle on the end.

As I've recently learned, an 1/8" end mill for Aluminum runs $14 for
uncoated 2 flute and $20 for coated 4 flute, and thats for taiwan.  US made
starts around $25 and the sky is the limit.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed Dec 10 01:13:12 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:13:12 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <f93c02ec0812091519j17d97850q4984924cf92f1df8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>
	<f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>
	<f93c02ec0812091519j17d97850q4984924cf92f1df8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081210001312.GP28820@moo.sysabend.org>

On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 03:19:57PM -0800, Paul Dickow wrote:
> PS, I'm guessing some of the tooling/thinking/process will be similar
> for ABS as it will for aluminum, in any case?

For ABS on a mill you really want a coated endmill, otherwise yeah its the
same.  

ABS is much easier to work so a dremel will be a tolerable option, just buy
an extra tube of those little cutting disks and for goodness sake wear
goggles.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From profpep at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 10 01:30:21 2008
From: profpep at hotmail.com (Mike)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:30:21 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-DAV9FE181E71D2D8CB720965A1FB0@phx.gbl>

> I haven't yet cut slider-slot type holes in enclosures yet.
> Recommended tricks/rules of thumb? Best tool to use?
> I want to make as non-wonky of a slot as I can...try to avoid wobbly
> edge. etc. the first time around.
>
For a small number of slots, there is an old engineers trick of drilling and
filing a small part of the slot, then using a number of hacksaw blades taped
together, to form a single thick blade. If a wood block is clamped to the
workpiece, parallel with one edge of the slot, a quite reasonable slot can
be cut.

RS used to sell a nice screen printed self adhesive slider scele/bezel, that
could be stuck on to cover your cutting, but I can't find it in the current
catalogue.

||\/||ike



From paul.dickow at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 01:30:51 2008
From: paul.dickow at gmail.com (Paul Dickow)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:30:51 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <20081210001312.GP28820@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>
	<f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>
	<f93c02ec0812091519j17d97850q4984924cf92f1df8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081210001312.GP28820@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <f93c02ec0812091630q11e46358y5331f75071f450e8@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks again to the many prompt responses. I think that the chanukah
fairy is bringing me a dremel tool this year - if it's friendly to ABS
I might try that. Honestly, it would be as much effort identifying a
friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend with a milling tool, at this point- I'm
not connected to anyone doing hobbyist activities who would have a
milling machine. I'm stumped on going that route, understand the
principles and it appeals to me but it would be a big effort just to
identify a resource and work with them.

For dremeling the ABS and keeping things in a straight line, I'm
thinking guide drill holes at either end of my slot are a good way to
keep things in line, as previously mentioned in this thread?

Tom- thanks for the words about goggles- With plastic being what it is
I'm thinking a basic face mask too, anti-dust, typical hospital type
deal...

P

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 03:19:57PM -0800, Paul Dickow wrote:
>> PS, I'm guessing some of the tooling/thinking/process will be similar
>> for ABS as it will for aluminum, in any case?
>
> For ABS on a mill you really want a coated endmill, otherwise yeah its the
> same.
>
> ABS is much easier to work so a dremel will be a tolerable option, just buy
> an extra tube of those little cutting disks and for goodness sake wear
> goggles.
>
> --
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>  - SynthGeek        -
>  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>  --------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
Paul Dickow
STRATEGY
www.community-library.net
www.archigramophone.com
Community Library/Kranky/Audio Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Wed Dec 10 01:58:16 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:58:16 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda increases sales?
In-Reply-To: <f93c02ec0812091630q11e46358y5331f75071f450e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

The P08 uses ceramic caps in the VCF and ceramic caps in the S/H.
The Andromeda does the same.

This design technique are somewhat breaking  the rules as to what
some of the long timers here use to say about wich type of caps
to use in a VCF, usually polypropylen or MKT.

I have played the Andromeda acouple of times but not the P08 and
personaly i didnt like the sound at all, there was something strange to it.

So, would the P08 and Andromeda sound different if one would change the
VCF caps and do you think it's (sound wise )a proper design modification?
(yes we all know why they used ceramics, so skip the manufacturing issues).

What would be interesting to know are how much better the specs are
nowdays on NPO etc caps compared to lets say some 5-6 years ago?

If your old enough you know of microphonics of ceramic caps so let's do
a wild speculation, by playing the Andromeda on its keyboard would those
tapping vibration transplant it's way into the ceramic caps and cause 
intermodulation distortion? :-)


--- Den ons 2008-12-10 skrev Paul Dickow <paul.dickow at gmail.com>:

> Fr?n: Paul Dickow <paul.dickow at gmail.com>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
> Till: xyzzy at sysabend.org, "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Datum: onsdag 10 december 2008 05.00
> Thanks again to the many prompt responses. I think that the
> chanukah
> fairy is bringing me a dremel tool this year - if it's
> friendly to ABS
> I might try that. Honestly, it would be as much effort
> identifying a
> friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend with a milling tool, at this
> point- I'm
> not connected to anyone doing hobbyist activities who would
> have a
> milling machine. I'm stumped on going that route,
> understand the
> principles and it appeals to me but it would be a big
> effort just to
> identify a resource and work with them.
> 
> For dremeling the ABS and keeping things in a straight
> line, I'm
> thinking guide drill holes at either end of my slot are a
> good way to
> keep things in line, as previously mentioned in this
> thread?
> 
> Tom- thanks for the words about goggles- With plastic being
> what it is
> I'm thinking a basic face mask too, anti-dust, typical
> hospital type
> deal...
> 
> P
> 
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Tom Arnold
> <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 03:19:57PM -0800, Paul Dickow
> wrote:
> >> PS, I'm guessing some of the
> tooling/thinking/process will be similar
> >> for ABS as it will for aluminum, in any case?
> >
> > For ABS on a mill you really want a coated endmill,
> otherwise yeah its the
> > same.
> >
> > ABS is much easier to work so a dremel will be a
> tolerable option, just buy
> > an extra tube of those little cutting disks and for
> goodness sake wear
> > goggles.
> >
> > --
> > 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace
> http://www.sdiy.org
> >  - SynthGeek        -
> >  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug,
> or a religion?"
> >  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs.
> "What's the difference?"
> >  --------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Paul Dickow
> STRATEGY
> www.community-library.net
> www.archigramophone.com
> Community Library/Kranky/Audio
> Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From nate_daniels at speakeasy.net  Wed Dec 10 02:12:39 2008
From: nate_daniels at speakeasy.net (Nathaniel Everett Daniels)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:12:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <f93c02ec0812091630q11e46358y5331f75071f450e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>	<20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>	<f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>	<f93c02ec0812091519j17d97850q4984924cf92f1df8@mail.gmail.com>	<20081210001312.GP28820@moo.sysabend.org>
	<f93c02ec0812091630q11e46358y5331f75071f450e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <493F1787.1000605@speakeasy.net>

If you're handy with a vector drawing program, like acrylic as a case 
option and don't mind paying I'd take a look at ponoko.com (not 
affiliated).  They do custom laser cutting of 30 some odd materials in 
different thickness, and have a boatload of acrylic colors.   Why drill 
when you can laser cut!  I keep tossing around the idea of getting synth 
panels cut in 4mm poplar plywood.

-Nate Daniels


Paul Dickow wrote:
> Thanks again to the many prompt responses. I think that the chanukah
> fairy is bringing me a dremel tool this year - if it's friendly to ABS
> I might try that. Honestly, it would be as much effort identifying a
> friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend with a milling tool, at this point- I'm
> not connected to anyone doing hobbyist activities who would have a
> milling machine. I'm stumped on going that route, understand the
> principles and it appeals to me but it would be a big effort just to
> identify a resource and work with them.
>
> For dremeling the ABS and keeping things in a straight line, I'm
> thinking guide drill holes at either end of my slot are a good way to
> keep things in line, as previously mentioned in this thread?
>
> Tom- thanks for the words about goggles- With plastic being what it is
> I'm thinking a basic face mask too, anti-dust, typical hospital type
> deal...
>
> P
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
>   
>> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 03:19:57PM -0800, Paul Dickow wrote:
>>     
>>> PS, I'm guessing some of the tooling/thinking/process will be similar
>>> for ABS as it will for aluminum, in any case?
>>>       
>> For ABS on a mill you really want a coated endmill, otherwise yeah its the
>> same.
>>
>> ABS is much easier to work so a dremel will be a tolerable option, just buy
>> an extra tube of those little cutting disks and for goodness sake wear
>> goggles.
>>
>> --
>>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>>  - SynthGeek        -
>>  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>>  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>>  --------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 10 02:35:46 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:35:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda increases sales?
In-Reply-To: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <618FD15F-FD00-4E6F-B6C9-6EBC0A1D9BFF@earthlink.net>

How quickly we forget the discussion about the Pro-One using ceramics  
in the filter. That sounds so good people want to clone it. ;)

Mark






On Dec 9, 2008, at 7:58 PM, karl dalen wrote:

> The P08 uses ceramic caps in the VCF and ceramic caps in the S/H.
> The Andromeda does the same.
>
> This design technique are somewhat breaking  the rules as to what
> some of the long timers here use to say about wich type of caps
> to use in a VCF, usually polypropylen or MKT.
>
> I have played the Andromeda acouple of times but not the P08 and
> personaly i didnt like the sound at all, there was something  
> strange to it.
>
> So, would the P08 and Andromeda sound different if one would change  
> the
> VCF caps and do you think it's (sound wise )a proper design  
> modification?
> (yes we all know why they used ceramics, so skip the manufacturing  
> issues).
>
> What would be interesting to know are how much better the specs are
> nowdays on NPO etc caps compared to lets say some 5-6 years ago?
>
> If your old enough you know of microphonics of ceramic caps so  
> let's do
> a wild speculation, by playing the Andromeda on its keyboard would  
> those
> tapping vibration transplant it's way into the ceramic caps and cause
> intermodulation distortion? :-)
>
>


From marr at lumin.us  Wed Dec 10 02:36:13 2008
From: marr at lumin.us (Mark Rivera)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:36:13 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <f93c02ec0812091630q11e46358y5331f75071f450e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>	<20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>	<f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>	<f93c02ec0812091519j17d97850q4984924cf92f1df8@mail.gmail.com>	<20081210001312.GP28820@moo.sysabend.org>
	<f93c02ec0812091630q11e46358y5331f75071f450e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <493F1D0D.9010500@lumin.us>

Paul Dickow wrote:
> Honestly, it would be as much effort identifying a
> friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend with a milling tool, at this point- I'm
> not connected to anyone doing hobbyist activities who would have a
> milling machine.

Paul, the reason I asked about the part number for the enclosure is I do 
have a mill. By some synthesizer/diy coincidence, it is made by Roland. :)

If you're interested, shoot me the CAD or a sketch or something and 
we'll see if it is possible. The size of the enclosure is small enough 
for me to get the panel into the machine. One issue that would have to 
be looked at is how best to fix the panel in place so it doesn't shift 
while the work is being done.

Right now all I have are 0.125" end mills and drill bits. The min width 
of a slot would be around 0.130". If you have some time to wait, we 
could see about getting a smaller-diameter bit.

Mark


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Wed Dec 10 03:45:27 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:45:27 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <227cdf0c8419f0a155f5878ef5e019dd.squirrel@webmail.eventualdecline.com>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>	<200812091759.47990.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<493ECB3D.2070002@imt.net>
	<227cdf0c8419f0a155f5878ef5e019dd.squirrel@webmail.eventualdecline.com>
Message-ID: <493F2D47.3090408@imt.net>

I know I've seen some of the facilities.  It's still stupid that they 
don't have (since they have all the materials there) a much WIDER range 
of things they'll accomidate for more reasonable prices.  For example 
they might actually make a better hourly rate quoting someone on making 
20 crude knobs like these on the ARP quartet for ya know.  Say somebody 
just wanted the plastic form and they were willing to drill the holes 
for the shafts and goop them on.  All those people would have to do is 
take a clay that is designed for this...lube a part and jam it down in 
them 20X.  Take a device made to dispense the plastic and pour it in the 
holes.  Let it set up. Hand it to them in a bag and get the 80 bucks.  
I'll bet that would take them all over  5 minutes to make the mold, 5 
minutes to pour....!!!  WHY are people so freaking dumb is I guess what 
I'm asking! :-)  Why don't they want to make 400 dollars per hour when 
the have the gear right there instead of wasting time talking to you 
about ordering 4000 of something that they know you aren't going to go 
for at a cost of 3400 dollars or whatever?

hehe.  I guess I'm more accomidating in my business.  And if I did that 
kind of business I would actually probably do a run like that for 34 
dollars for someone if it is as easy as I think it would be.  Then a 
person whose lost all their slider caps like one I have here right now 
could go in and get them at ar reasonable price.  Bore them and paint 
them in another hour and have 80 bucks into a set of knobs you can't 
get...but which would look identical to stock pretty much and would 
increase the value of the instrument 140 dollars.    There are just tons 
of things like that an innovative person could do if they had a facility 
already set up to do bigger tasks.  Why not when it takes less time to 
do it than to talk to someone about not doing it? :-) -Bob

Ben Lincoln wrote:

>I imagine that for mass-production, the maker is actually machining metal
>to create an injection mold. I assume they're using CNC, which means
>having a CAD/CAM engineer model the mold and then transform it into
>instructions for the robot. So it's time-consuming *and* requires skilled
>labour.
>
>It does mean that once you have the tooling, making individual parts is
>very cheap, as the listed prices attest. The results are also much more
>consistent than garage-molded parts, as much as I like garage work.
>
>On Tue, December 9, 2008 11:47 am, Bob Weigel wrote:
>  
>
>>I don't know why mold make is so expensive for some parts.  Especially
>>if you have a pattern and it's a tapered part that can be jammed into
>>the clay w/ a little silicon on the surface...and pulled out.  The two I
>>poured last night...one was pretty good and one had a major bubble but
>>that was because I was using epoxe and it was hard to 'knead' it into
>>the holes :-).  But I think I got a useable one when it dries
>>completely.  Overnight it's still pretty plastic feeling.  When it
>>hardens to where I can machine it I should be able to just drill a shaft
>>hole and goop it onto the shaft and nobody will ever know the different
>>unless they tear it off :-). -Bob
>>    
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Wed Dec 10 03:48:07 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:48:07 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <013301c95a42$29820ce0$1102a8c0@Mariko>
References: <013301c95a42$29820ce0$1102a8c0@Mariko>
Message-ID: <493F2DE7.5080801@imt.net>

Like I say on this particular case, we're dealing with a flat metal 
shaft thing.  So if I drill a 5/32" hole I believe it is...in the center 
of the knob, then the shaft will fit tightly.  I'll have to allign it on 
axis of course :-).  But then you just put goop automotive adhesive or 
E6000 in it and stick it on there and let it dry and voila.  Works just 
like the stock one and never will fall off unless you want it off. -Bob

Adam Schabtach wrote:

>Let us know how it turns out, Bob. I was just thinking that the hard part of
>the DIY molding approach might be making the shaft hole. I suppose it might
>be possible to tap a hole for a set screw, but the threads might be pretty
>fragile. Doing a hole for a D shaft seems quite dicey.
>
>--Adam
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
>>[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Bob Weigel
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:47 PM
>>To: ASSI
>>Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how 
>>are they made?)
>>
>>I don't know why mold make is so expensive for some parts.  
>>Especially if you have a pattern and it's a tapered part that 
>>can be jammed into the clay w/ a little silicon on the 
>>surface...and pulled out.  The two I poured last night...one 
>>was pretty good and one had a major bubble but that was 
>>because I was using epoxe and it was hard to 'knead' it into 
>>the holes :-).  But I think I got a useable one when it dries 
>>completely.  Overnight it's still pretty plastic feeling.  
>>When it hardens to where I can machine it I should be able to 
>>just drill a shaft hole and goop it onto the shaft and nobody 
>>will ever know the different unless they tear it off :-). -Bob
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From paul.dickow at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 06:31:12 2008
From: paul.dickow at gmail.com (Paul Dickow)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 21:31:12 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <493F1D0D.9010500@lumin.us>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>
	<f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>
	<f93c02ec0812091519j17d97850q4984924cf92f1df8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081210001312.GP28820@moo.sysabend.org>
	<f93c02ec0812091630q11e46358y5331f75071f450e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<493F1D0D.9010500@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <f93c02ec0812092131y4516eccax30c3a77414133f5a@mail.gmail.com>

Mark, are you located in the Portland metro area? I really appreciate
this. I'll send the CAD over when it's done. I did the initial layout
myself, but a coworker will be helping me complete it. I work for
landscape architects. Boy did they get a kick out of watching me try
to draw circles on the box .dwg file I downloaded from Hammond. I
basically did it, I just need to make things equidistant.

The slot itself doesn't have to be super thin, and on the previous
iteration of the box it was pretty wide actually. I'll do an exact
measurement, but to some extent we could probably indicate the cut as
a line and work around the milling point limitations to decide. Its
less important to me that it be thin than that it be..clean.

Thanks again, once I get a file done I'll shoot it over...tell me what
you think...
Thanks!
Paul

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Mark Rivera <marr at lumin.us> wrote:
> Paul Dickow wrote:
>>
>> Honestly, it would be as much effort identifying a
>> friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend with a milling tool, at this point- I'm
>> not connected to anyone doing hobbyist activities who would have a
>> milling machine.
>
> Paul, the reason I asked about the part number for the enclosure is I do
> have a mill. By some synthesizer/diy coincidence, it is made by Roland. :)
>
> If you're interested, shoot me the CAD or a sketch or something and we'll
> see if it is possible. The size of the enclosure is small enough for me to
> get the panel into the machine. One issue that would have to be looked at is
> how best to fix the panel in place so it doesn't shift while the work is
> being done.
>
> Right now all I have are 0.125" end mills and drill bits. The min width of a
> slot would be around 0.130". If you have some time to wait, we could see
> about getting a smaller-diameter bit.
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
Paul Dickow
STRATEGY
www.community-library.net
www.archigramophone.com
Community Library/Kranky/Audio Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/


From wackyvorlon at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 06:47:25 2008
From: wackyvorlon at gmail.com (Paul Anderson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:47:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f93c02ec0812091330q70f6c446x17a29905a2ca20cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081209225431.GM28820@moo.sysabend.org>
	<f93c02ec0812091519x5d8cfe3akd49220735f648103@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9e7fa74a0812092147t674c8ab1r9b5fa42778e03204@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Paul Dickow <paul.dickow at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for the replies on this. It is SO appreciated.
> I should have included the info that I've opted for an ABS enclosure
> on this project. Ordinarily I would not, but as a computer peripheral
> and non audio device I thought I could go plastic on this one. Any
> ideas about whether this will be easier to work with?
>
>
A thought:  Why not have ponoko laser cut it?


-- 
Paul Anderson
VE3HOP
wackyvorlon at gmail.com
http://www.oldschoolhacker.com
QRP ARCI #13228, GQRP #12447


From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 07:53:13 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:53:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091540190.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091540190.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812092253o509f0c1an6f0c8fa70ad6ef84@mail.gmail.com>

This was several years ago and spanned the The-Gas-Station and
Analogue Heaven lists.  It started out with people claiming the Moog
VCO was real magical and nothing else on earth sounded anything like
it.  You know, the usual B.S. that fills these lists.  After getting
actual Moog wav files from a couple of different people it turned out
there was nothing special about it at all.  It's waveforms looked and
sounded like others, it had LESS jitter than other oscillators, and
drift could be easily programmed, and all kinds of other VCO's were
tested and compared too and files were put online to put to rest some
of the ridiculous things people said about them.  I posted cycle to
cycle jitter measurements too.  Most of those files are no longer
online except the very last one I posted which compared that supposed
super magical Moog 901 VCO with a miserable digital waveform generated
in Cool Edit Pro and there is virtually no audible difference.  The
wav file below alternates between the Moog and a digital waveform a
few times over the length of the file.  Jitter measurements comparing
the Moog and a modern Technosaurus VCO are after my text and it can be
seen that the Moog has about 3 times less.

http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/Sawtooths.wav

Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO, that's fine, if
that's what is meant by "living".  If I want unstable, I use my
Doepfers.  But nobody should be claiming that the Moog VCO is somehow
different/better than other VCO's.  There just isn't anything there to
back that up.

One of the many hypothetical potential products that I'd like to come
out with is called the Acoustic Oscillator and produces "alive" and
constantly changing waveforms the same way acoustic instruments do.
Prototyping the thing up in Reaktor has been on my list for a couple
of years now.

------
Moog Modular 901 VCO 65Hz, 40 cycles measured.
Cycle to cycle jitter in microseconds.

+1.4  -0.7  -0.7  0.0  +2.1  -0.7  -0.7  0.0
+0.7  +0.7  0.0  +2.8  -2.1  -0.7  +1.4  0.0
0.0  0.0  0.0  -0.7  0.0  +0.7  -0.7  +0.7
0.0  -1.4  +1.4  +7.0  -1.4  0.0  0.0  -1.4
+0.7  0.0  +0.7  0.0  0.0  0.0  -0.7


Technosaurus Selector VCO 65Hz, 20 cycles measured.
Cycle to cycle jitter in microseconds.

-2.1  +3.5  -4.9  +3.5  -2.1  -3.5  +2.1  +0.7
0.0  +1.4  -2.1  -2.1  +3.5  +2.8  -6.3  +4.2
+1.4  -2.1  -2.1
------

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Antti Huovilainen <ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi> wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Ian Fritz wrote:
>
>> Ken did a superb, thorough study of this.  It's really depressing that
>> nobody seems to believe his results.
>
> I seem to have missed this. Can someone post a url to the results? (Which of
> course include detailed explanations of the tests, right? (*))
>
> Antti
>
> "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
>  -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova
>
> *: Any study which only says "Here are the results, but we're not telling
> you exactly how we got them" is largely useless.
>


From jhaible at debitel.net  Wed Dec 10 08:37:31 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:37:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl><493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl><AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent><493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl><ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent><493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl><200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl><d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com><6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net><alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091540190.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<d384bef90812092253o509f0c1an6f0c8fa70ad6ef84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>

> Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO,

Just to clarify: I have nowhere described my JH-5 VCOs as "unstable".
In fact, if you read the short text at the link I've posted, I'm talking 
about quite the opposite.

JH. (puzzled)



From jhaible at debitel.net  Wed Dec 10 09:29:23 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:29:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209112126.020fdd38@mail.comcast.net>
	<788CDD930C7841D5B51956E98123BFBB@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209151234.0212cd68@mail.comcast.net>
	<432F6CEA7CD1404189AD3A91DCA39D74@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209164626.02104ef0@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6FF320FDBF73446EB18B9F6E8E2D75DD@jhsilent>

>Is it the beating at the end that the VCOs are creating?

I think that demo is way too short to really demonstrate anything, except 
maybe a quick first impression.

> Out of curiosity, did you find something amiss with Elhardt's previous
> characterization and analysis?

Oh, I remember that heated discussion well that we all had on a forum called 
the gas station, which then swapped over to the analogue heaven mailing 
list. I remember it well because I defended the merits of very precise VCOs.

I did not go into the measurement stuff myself, and only followed Ken's 
measurements loosely. Because for me, it's obvious - simply from theory! - 
that you can emulate the behaviour of *any* real VCO, using an ideal VCO 
plus amplitude modulation and frequency (or phase) modulation. It's just a 
matter of choosing the right modulation signal. (Which, admittedly, may 
proove not trivial.)
I also remember I defended Ken against a personal attack from someone who 
tried to ridicule him for his measurements.
I noticed that this has caused the impression that I understood what he has 
measured.

In retrospect, all these discussions feel extremely painful. They have even 
been painful then, for me. (Even though I admit, and regret, that I've dealt 
out some fire myself.) It's hard to understand why such a simple matter as a 
VCO can polarize people so much, divide them into groups that oppose each 
other, and reduces the individual thoughts and contributions and theories of 
individuals to something that is apparently shared, and verified, by 
everyone in one such group.

The really funny thing is that I had just finished my JH-5 when these 
discussions took place. I liked what I had, like a child that is content 
with his new toy, because it had a certain character I'd been looking for, 
without being a copy of the instruments that inspired me. That gave me some 
confidence in my theories _without_ following the various measurement 
efforts too closely. I've never been the scientific type, really. I'm 
analyzing classic circuits up to the point where it gives me some 
inspiration what to try, I throw away my failed attempts, and I'm happy when 
something sounds the way I like it. Then I'm too bored to measure and 
analyze what I've accomplished, and - as it actually happened - I even 
displace my design documents for a few years and forget the implementation 
details. That's why I'm so happy I found them again. :)

JH.






From Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com  Wed Dec 10 09:56:51 2008
From: Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:56:51 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] My Sequencer
In-Reply-To: <F4A27268-93CB-402B-B319-B576C435419E@synth.net>
References: <ECFDE9DA-797F-40D8-AB91-303D280DA0E9@synth.net><F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096416@eumail.eu.panavision.com><DECBD4EA-0518-4A86-B8B0-2344E0FFD125@synth.net>
	<A485C307-7960-4DB0-B2BD-5927BE9186A2@synth.net>
	<E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DBC9@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>
	<F4A27268-93CB-402B-B319-B576C435419E@synth.net>
Message-ID: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DD60@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>

Hi,

>    Sorry, I forgot to say...
> I'm not sure what you mean by major or minor chording? it's only
> monophonic and there's no real way I can get more than one note
> without having too many menus.

Ahh - sorry, should've been a bit clearer.

You've said that you want to change the root note, but I see this as
having some of the same qualities as an arpeggiator - I was wondering if
you were going to have the ability for it to have different note
sequences depending on what kind of chord structure was required.

For example, you've set it up to do C-E-G-F-G-A-C-E (roughly CMaj). It
would be nice to be able to change it to A-C-E-D-E-F-A-E (roughly AMin),
rather than A-C#-E...
--
Jason Tribbeck



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Dec 10 10:02:52 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:02:52 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
Message-ID: <4454.81.58.240.234.1228899772.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

Ian Fritz schreef:
> At 03:38 PM 12/9/2008, JH. wrote:
>>... it's unlikely
>>that I would have turned the reverb off, because I never make any music
>>without room simulation.
>>
>>But I got your point: Before I sell anything, I better create dry
>> samples.
>
> Thank you.  That's a great sounding demo.  Is it the beating at the end
> that the VCOs are creating?  I agree that demos should usually be done in
> a
> musical context to show off what can be accomplished.
>
> Out of curiosity, did you find something amiss with Elhardt's previous
> characterization and analysis?  I've only been able to get one sound file
> of an early Moog VCO, and it was an mp3 recorded at fairly low level.  I
> didn't hear anything special about it though.

If the character of such a VCO is determined by small amounts of jitter
and drift then it would not be apparent when listening to one VCO on its
own.

I wonder if a comparable jitter effect could be easily achieved in an
ASM-2 VCO by injecting a small noise current into one of the inputs of
U102, by connecting it via a decoupling capacitor and a large resistor to
a noise generator output.
See http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/vco/vco1-cco-asm2-cct.pdf

Drift could be achieved by FM modulation with a slow random signal.


-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed Dec 10 11:19:30 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:19:30 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl><493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl><AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent><493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl><ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent><493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl><200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl><d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com><6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net><alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091540190.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>	<d384bef90812092253o509f0c1an6f0c8fa70ad6ef84@mail.gmail.com>
	<984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <493F97B2.4070907@sonic.net>

JH. wrote:
>> Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO,
>>     
> Just to clarify: I have nowhere described my JH-5 VCOs as "unstable".
> In fact, if you read the short text at the link I've posted, I'm talking 
> about quite the opposite.
>
> JH. (puzzled)
>   
The problem with this discussion is the use of the subjective term 
"living".  The term conveys no technical information, and has caused the 
discussion to "go off in the weeds" in a number of different ways.  I 
don't know if you are intentionally or inadvertently not providing this 
key definition in a more straightforward manner.   The term obviously 
has some specific meaning to you, which is unknown to the list, mainly 
because I don't think list members read the text you referenced in your 
original post.  From your JH5 page we read:

"My goal was to build a set of VCOs that have the untamed bass range 
power of early EMS and Moog VCOs, but which are tracking a keyboard 
voltage over 5 or more octaves nevertheless. I found that "untamed" 
Beating in the bass range /and/ controlled beating in higher octaves is 
not possible with standard exponential 1V/Oct oscillators. A good part 
of that special sound of early Moog and EMS oscillators is not because 
of any "randomness", "unstability", "instability" or "noisyness", as so 
often is said. A good deal of their behavior /is/ because of that, but 
it is not the whole story. There are also some very deterministic 
factors in these old circuits which have been unpleasant side effects 
for the designers back then, but which are worth a closer analysis when 
we're designing a musical VCO today. This is implemented in form of 
three "linear detune" potentiometers on the JH-5A VCOs."

See: http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html

 From this one *might* conclude that linear, as opposed to expo, 
detuning is the key to the 'living VCO'.

I recalled an old submission you made regarding a linear detuning 
modification to the Oberheim SEM.  Digging in my files I found a copy 
from July 10, 1997 which is archived here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20051220015016/http://home.swbell.net/roy_tate/info/lindetun.html

The key thought at the end of that post: "...I just wanted to show that 
there might be some *tendency*, some *trend* from very rich sounding 
synths at one end to very precice sounding instruments on the other end. 
And that the reason for this is not black magic, but of some physical 
nature. And, that this may have something to do with a linear term in 
VCO detuning."

Many expo VCO implementations include a linear modulation CV port, and 
so on to the next question: does the 'living' VCO do more than provide a 
knob to adjust the linear detune amount?

-Dave


From jhaible at debitel.net  Wed Dec 10 11:31:52 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:31:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl><493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl><AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent><493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl><ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent><493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl><200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl><d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com><6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net><alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091540190.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>	<d384bef90812092253o509f0c1an6f0c8fa70ad6ef84@mail.gmail.com>
	<984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>
	<493F97B2.4070907@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <E508F89E695D4E0B914E914E6854107E@jhsilent>

Hi Dave, you summed it up nicely.

> The problem with this discussion is the use of the subjective term
> "living".  The term conveys no technical information,

I was actually proud I found a short project name that describes what it 
means to me. :)
I had no idea someone could be offended, concluding other VCOs were "dead".
(I don't say other chorus devices cannot be subtle, when I called my Dim D 
clone "Subtle Chorus".
Or that you cannot make Krautrock-style music with other Schulte Phaser 
Clones.
It'd be so ridiculous if I'd imply anything like that, and it's also fairly 
ridiculous for others to conclude something like that, IMO.)

You're right about Linear Detuning. It's one of the key ingredients.
But it doesn't have anything to do with the Linear FM you can find on many 
VCOs. Entirely different thing, as far as I can tell.

JH.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Manley" <dlmanley at sonic.net>
To: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>
Cc: "Ken Elhardt" <ken.elhardt at gmail.com>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?


JH. wrote:
>> Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO,
>>
> Just to clarify: I have nowhere described my JH-5 VCOs as "unstable".
> In fact, if you read the short text at the link I've posted, I'm talking
> about quite the opposite.
>
> JH. (puzzled)
>
The problem with this discussion is the use of the subjective term
"living".  The term conveys no technical information, and has caused the
discussion to "go off in the weeds" in a number of different ways.  I
don't know if you are intentionally or inadvertently not providing this
key definition in a more straightforward manner.   The term obviously
has some specific meaning to you, which is unknown to the list, mainly
because I don't think list members read the text you referenced in your
original post.  From your JH5 page we read:

"My goal was to build a set of VCOs that have the untamed bass range
power of early EMS and Moog VCOs, but which are tracking a keyboard
voltage over 5 or more octaves nevertheless. I found that "untamed"
Beating in the bass range /and/ controlled beating in higher octaves is
not possible with standard exponential 1V/Oct oscillators. A good part
of that special sound of early Moog and EMS oscillators is not because
of any "randomness", "unstability", "instability" or "noisyness", as so
often is said. A good deal of their behavior /is/ because of that, but
it is not the whole story. There are also some very deterministic
factors in these old circuits which have been unpleasant side effects
for the designers back then, but which are worth a closer analysis when
we're designing a musical VCO today. This is implemented in form of
three "linear detune" potentiometers on the JH-5A VCOs."

See: http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html

 From this one *might* conclude that linear, as opposed to expo,
detuning is the key to the 'living VCO'.

I recalled an old submission you made regarding a linear detuning
modification to the Oberheim SEM.  Digging in my files I found a copy
from July 10, 1997 which is archived here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20051220015016/http://home.swbell.net/roy_tate/info/lindetun.html

The key thought at the end of that post: "...I just wanted to show that
there might be some *tendency*, some *trend* from very rich sounding
synths at one end to very precice sounding instruments on the other end.
And that the reason for this is not black magic, but of some physical
nature. And, that this may have something to do with a linear term in
VCO detuning."

Many expo VCO implementations include a linear modulation CV port, and
so on to the next question: does the 'living' VCO do more than provide a
knob to adjust the linear detune amount?

-Dave




From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec 10 11:40:15 2008
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:40:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812092253o509f0c1an6f0c8fa70ad6ef84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <687137.86426.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I think you may have struck on something.  Maybe the VCOs that people love so much are not jittery or unstable in their fundamental frequency (unless deliberately fed noisy CV).  But are somehow unstable in their waveshape.  That is to say unstable in their higher harmonic content.  

Maybe another avenue for someone to analyse who has access to some dry wave files and time on their hands.  

I know that my personal triangle to saw waveshaper puts out a sawtooth that wobbles around on the scope quite a bit even when the triangle going into it is nice and solid looking.  Its the pointy bits of the saw that are the wobbliest and they wouldn't affect your 65Hz jitter analysis.  My ears aren't quite discerning enough to reliably pick the difference though.

Cheers,
Nicolas


--- On Wed, 10/12/08, Ken Elhardt <ken.elhardt at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Ken Elhardt <ken.elhardt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
> To: "Antti Huovilainen" <ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi>
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Received: Wednesday, 10 December, 2008, 7:53 PM
> This was several years ago and spanned the The-Gas-Station
> and
> Analogue Heaven lists.  It started out with people claiming
> the Moog
> VCO was real magical and nothing else on earth sounded
> anything like
> it.  You know, the usual B.S. that fills these lists. 
> After getting
> actual Moog wav files from a couple of different people it
> turned out
> there was nothing special about it at all.  It's
> waveforms looked and
> sounded like others, it had LESS jitter than other
> oscillators, and
> drift could be easily programmed, and all kinds of other
> VCO's were
> tested and compared too and files were put online to put to
> rest some
> of the ridiculous things people said about them.  I posted
> cycle to
> cycle jitter measurements too.  Most of those files are no
> longer
> online except the very last one I posted which compared
> that supposed
> super magical Moog 901 VCO with a miserable digital
> waveform generated
> in Cool Edit Pro and there is virtually no audible
> difference.  The
> wav file below alternates between the Moog and a digital
> waveform a
> few times over the length of the file.  Jitter measurements
> comparing
> the Moog and a modern Technosaurus VCO are after my text
> and it can be
> seen that the Moog has about 3 times less.
> 
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/Sawtooths.wav
> 
> Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO, that's
> fine, if
> that's what is meant by "living".  If I want
> unstable, I use my
> Doepfers.  But nobody should be claiming that the Moog VCO
> is somehow
> different/better than other VCO's.  There just
> isn't anything there to
> back that up.
> 
> One of the many hypothetical potential products that
> I'd like to come
> out with is called the Acoustic Oscillator and produces
> "alive" and
> constantly changing waveforms the same way acoustic
> instruments do.
> Prototyping the thing up in Reaktor has been on my list for
> a couple
> of years now.
> 
> ------
> Moog Modular 901 VCO 65Hz, 40 cycles measured.
> Cycle to cycle jitter in microseconds.
> 
> +1.4  -0.7  -0.7  0.0  +2.1  -0.7  -0.7  0.0
> +0.7  +0.7  0.0  +2.8  -2.1  -0.7  +1.4  0.0
> 0.0  0.0  0.0  -0.7  0.0  +0.7  -0.7  +0.7
> 0.0  -1.4  +1.4  +7.0  -1.4  0.0  0.0  -1.4
> +0.7  0.0  +0.7  0.0  0.0  0.0  -0.7
> 
> 
> Technosaurus Selector VCO 65Hz, 20 cycles measured.
> Cycle to cycle jitter in microseconds.
> 
> -2.1  +3.5  -4.9  +3.5  -2.1  -3.5  +2.1  +0.7
> 0.0  +1.4  -2.1  -2.1  +3.5  +2.8  -6.3  +4.2
> +1.4  -2.1  -2.1
> ------
> 
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Antti Huovilainen
> <ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi> wrote:
> > On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Ian Fritz wrote:
> >
> >> Ken did a superb, thorough study of this. 
> It's really depressing that
> >> nobody seems to believe his results.
> >
> > I seem to have missed this. Can someone post a url to
> the results? (Which of
> > course include detailed explanations of the tests,
> right? (*))
> >
> > Antti
> >
> > "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always
> a boom tomorrow"
> >  -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova
> >
> > *: Any study which only says "Here are the
> results, but we're not telling
> > you exactly how we got them" is largely useless.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Dec 10 11:45:58 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:45:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] keeping signals seperate..avoiding noise
Message-ID: <24078.81.58.240.234.1228905958.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


I agree it would require special attention to guarantee good contact
between the panels and the mounting rails. E.g. using stuff like this:
http://nl.farnell.com/chomerics/82-121-74006-g8701/gasket-foam-1m/dp/1218458

In a semimodular, with only a single front panel, it is of course much
easier.

If you connect each individual panel to ground and if they are not
isolated from each other you will get ground loops. Grounding all panels
together from a single point to the star point, as I proposed, you won't.

In practical systems it may be more desirable to avoid the risk that some
panels are not grounded than avoiding those ground loops. So I'm not
saying that per-module panel grounding is a bad approach, however it is
not ideal either.

Laurie Biddulph schreef:
> The problem with this method is that it assumes that you will get a `zero
> ohm' contact between each panel and the module rail. In reality there will
> be layers of dirt and oxidation on the rail surface, the panel surface,
> the
> fixing screw surface and no guarantee that inserting the screw will
> provide
> good contact between the module and the panel.
>
> Grounding each panel through its attached pcb means that the panel will be
> at true ground potential (assuming no losses etc through the boards and
> power cables) and that all panels will be at the same potential. This
> means,
> ideally, that the panel would be grounded through either a dedicated
> ground
> power rail (PANEL GND = PGND) or as close to the power connector on the
> attached board. I believe Oakley modules do the PGND approach although
> they
> also assume that you do not have a 100% MOTM compatible module in the
> system
> (MOTM do not split the grounds on the power connector so can't offer a
> true
> PGND connection). Oakley assumes the 2nd option where he gnd is made at
> the
> power connector (I think).
>
> In my Panther modules there is a ground strap provided on the pcb that is
> used to ground the associated panel. I don't have PGND (not an option in
> Doepfer compatible systems) and make my panel connection as close to the
> front edge of the pcb as possible for manufacturing convenience.
>
> Best Regards
>
> (Mr) Laurie Biddulph
> Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
> Mobile: 0400 257 645
>
> Elby Designs
> ABN: 70 022 727 605
> http://www.elby-designs.com
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended
> for the addressee only.
> If you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or
> otherwise use it, or any part of it, in any form whatsoever. If you have
> received this e-mail in error please notify the sender and ensure that all
> copies of this e-mail and any files transmitted with it are deleted.
> Any views or opinions represented in this e-mail are solely those of the
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Elby Designs.
> Although this e-mail and its attachments have been scanned for the
> presence
> of computer viruses, Elby Designs will not be liable for any losses as a
> result of any viruses being passed on.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Simon Brouwer" <simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl>
> To: "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] keeping signals seperate..avoiding noise
>
>
>> Seb Francis schreef:
>>> Justin Owen wrote:
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Laurie Biddulph [elby_designs at ozemail.com.au]
>>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] keeping signals seperate..avoiding noise
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> As a matter of good construction, the power supplies for each board
>>>>> should be run direct to the main power supply in
>>>>> what is sometimes referred to as `star' fashion. Daisy-chaining from
>>>>> one board to the next will allow noise induced on
>>>>> to the lines from one board to be radiated to the others.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Would the same apply to pots wired as volume controls - i.e. where one
>>>> pin goes to Earth/Ground?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, it only applies when you are drawing current, especially current
>>> spikes, as then the resistance and inductance of the power line causes
>>> the voltage along it to fluctuate.  It different circuits share the
>>> same
>>> power line, the spikes will then couple between them.
>>>
>>> For panel controls it may be better not to use star-earth if they are
>>> also earth-connected through a metal panel as you could get ground
>>> loops
>>> (=hum).  When using shielded cable it is normal to connect the earth at
>>> 1
>>> end only to avoid ground loops.
>> IMO in synthesizer modules the ground of a module should never be
>> connected to its metal panel. The panel should be isolated from the
>> module. The panels should be grounded by connecting one point of the
>> mounting rails to the star point.
>>
>> --
>> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec 10 11:53:55 2008
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:53:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <493F97B2.4070907@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <991019.36794.qm@web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Tuning is a very deep topic which I won't even pretend to be expert in, but I would point out that while synths are generally tuned according to a strict chromatic scale where every octave is exactly a doubling in frequency, many other instruments are not.

In particular pianos and good human singers tend to very slightly stretch the octaves, so that at the top end they are very slightly sharper than you might expect and at the bottom end very slightly flatter.  Also the amount of detuning in pianos between the two or three strings that make up each note is carefully adjusted to maximise the sustain time.  There is a magical tiny amount of detuning that sustains longer than perfect unison.

These tuning oddities in the piano world probably educate our collective ear to expect it.  And so a synth sounds more plausibly musical when it also deviates by a similar amount.  Maybe that is why we love some synths more than others - because they can more easily achieve just the right amount of tuning deviation.

Cheers,
Nicolas


--- On Wed, 10/12/08, Dave Manley <dlmanley at sonic.net> wrote:

> From: Dave Manley <dlmanley at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
> To: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Received: Wednesday, 10 December, 2008, 11:19 PM
> JH. wrote:
> >> Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO,
> >>     
> > Just to clarify: I have nowhere described my JH-5 VCOs
> as "unstable".
> > In fact, if you read the short text at the link
> I've posted, I'm talking about quite the opposite.
> > 
> > JH. (puzzled)
> >   
> The problem with this discussion is the use of the
> subjective term "living".  The term conveys no
> technical information, and has caused the discussion to
> "go off in the weeds" in a number of different
> ways.  I don't know if you are intentionally or
> inadvertently not providing this key definition in a more
> straightforward manner.   The term obviously has some
> specific meaning to you, which is unknown to the list,
> mainly because I don't think list members read the text
> you referenced in your original post.  From your JH5 page we
> read:
> 
> "My goal was to build a set of VCOs that have the
> untamed bass range power of early EMS and Moog VCOs, but
> which are tracking a keyboard voltage over 5 or more octaves
> nevertheless. I found that "untamed" Beating in
> the bass range /and/ controlled beating in higher octaves is
> not possible with standard exponential 1V/Oct oscillators. A
> good part of that special sound of early Moog and EMS
> oscillators is not because of any "randomness",
> "unstability", "instability" or
> "noisyness", as so often is said. A good deal of
> their behavior /is/ because of that, but it is not the whole
> story. There are also some very deterministic factors in
> these old circuits which have been unpleasant side effects
> for the designers back then, but which are worth a closer
> analysis when we're designing a musical VCO today. This
> is implemented in form of three "linear detune"
> potentiometers on the JH-5A VCOs."
> 
> See: http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html
> 
> From this one *might* conclude that linear, as opposed to
> expo, detuning is the key to the 'living VCO'.
> 
> I recalled an old submission you made regarding a linear
> detuning modification to the Oberheim SEM.  Digging in my
> files I found a copy from July 10, 1997 which is archived
> here:
> http://web.archive.org/web/20051220015016/http://home.swbell.net/roy_tate/info/lindetun.html
> 
> The key thought at the end of that post: "...I just
> wanted to show that there might be some *tendency*, some
> *trend* from very rich sounding synths at one end to very
> precice sounding instruments on the other end. And that the
> reason for this is not black magic, but of some physical
> nature. And, that this may have something to do with a
> linear term in VCO detuning."
> 
> Many expo VCO implementations include a linear modulation
> CV port, and so on to the next question: does the
> 'living' VCO do more than provide a knob to adjust
> the linear detune amount?
> 
> -Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Dec 10 12:19:32 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:19:32 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
Message-ID: <8053.81.58.240.234.1228907972.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

"Linear" on that type of modulation input means that the frequency
deviation has a linear relation to the modulation voltage. *This deviation
is proportional to the unmodulated frequency*.

In contrast, J?rgens "linear detuning" control provides an independent
frequency offset.

So with the linear modulation input (if it is not AC coupled!), or with
the normal fine tuning control, you could get a frequency deviation of
e.g. 1 Hz but this deviation would be 2 Hz that when you play a note one
octave higher.

With the "linear detuning" you could set a 1 Hz deviation across the pitch
range. This way you can get a pleasant rate of beating between VCO's at
lower notes without them sounding too out of tune at higher notes.


Dave Manley schreef:
(...)
> Many expo VCO implementations include a linear modulation CV port, and
> so on to the next question: does the 'living' VCO do more than provide a
> knob to adjust the linear detune amount?

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec 10 12:31:17 2008
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:31:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <F05BBE7E-D0B0-464B-987F-0CF4F005853F@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <860328.52464.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

In a piano the strings don't just output energy, they also absorb energy from each other through the body of the piano.  See Weinreich -
http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/weinreic/strings.html


--- On Thu, 11/12/08, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

> From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
> To: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au
> Received: Thursday, 11 December, 2008, 12:16 AM
> On 10 Dec 2008, at 10:53, nicolas wrote:
> 
> > Also the amount of detuning in pianos between the two
> or three strings that make up each note is carefully
> adjusted to maximise the sustain time.  There is a magical
> tiny amount of detuning that sustains longer than perfect
> unison.
> 
> How does this work?
> 
> The only way I can currently see that multiple strings
> could sustain longer than a single string would be if the
> waves summed together to produce a wave that stayed above
> the threshold of hearing when each of the individual
> components are already below it. In this case, perfect
> unison would give the strongest effect and longest sustain.
> Anything else would introduce slow volume variations as
> well, which might sound good, but wouldn't make the
> sustain longer.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Regards,
> Tom


      Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Dec 10 12:42:33 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:42:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Linear/Log FM (was "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?)
In-Reply-To: <8053.81.58.240.234.1228907972.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
References: <8053.81.58.240.234.1228907972.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <F184B42A-DF31-4C15-8DF5-02EA587B140F@electricdruid.net>


On 10 Dec 2008, at 11:19, Simon Brouwer wrote:

> "Linear" on that type of modulation input means that the frequency
> deviation has a linear relation to the modulation voltage. *This  
> deviation
> is proportional to the unmodulated frequency*.
>
> In contrast, J?rgens "linear detuning" control provides an independent
> frequency offset.
>
> So with the linear modulation input (if it is not AC coupled!), or  
> with
> the normal fine tuning control, you could get a frequency deviation of
> e.g. 1 Hz but this deviation would be 2 Hz that when you play a  
> note one
> octave higher.
>
> With the "linear detuning" you could set a 1 Hz deviation across  
> the pitch
> range. This way you can get a pleasant rate of beating between  
> VCO's at
> lower notes without them sounding too out of tune at higher notes.

Is this right? That wasn't my understanding of a FM linear modulation  
input. I thought the folllowing;

If it's linear, a signal of a given level produces a modulation of a  
given depth, say 200Hz. What this represents musically will vary with  
pitch.
If it's logarithmic, a signal of a given level produces a modulation  
of a given interval, say 2 semitones.

So a linear detune control is just a small DC offset fed to a linear  
FM input.

Or am I hopelessly wrong about this (like lots of other stuff)?
Thanks,
Tom



From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec 10 12:46:00 2008
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:46:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] (no subject)
Message-ID: <650878.19220.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Tuning is a very deep topic which I won't even pretend to be expert in, but I would point out that while synths are generally tuned according to a strict chromatic scale where every octave is exactly a doubling in frequency, many other instruments are not.

In particular pianos and good human singers tend to very slightly stretch the octaves, so that at the top end they are very slightly sharper than you might expect and at the bottom end very slightly flatter.  Also the amount of detuning in pianos between the two or three strings that make up each note is carefully adjusted to maximise the sustain time.  There is a magical tiny amount of detuning that sustains longer than perfect unison.

These tuning oddities in the piano world probably educate our collective ear to expect it.  And so a synth sounds more plausibly musical when it also deviates by a similar amount.  Maybe that is why we love some synths more than others - because they can more easily achieve just the right amount of tuning deviation.

Cheers,
Nicolas


--- On Wed, 10/12/08, Dave Manley <dlmanley at sonic.net> wrote:

> From: Dave Manley <dlmanley at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
> To: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Received: Wednesday, 10 December, 2008, 11:19 PM
> JH. wrote:
> >> Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO,
> >>     
> > Just to clarify: I have nowhere described my JH-5 VCOs
> as "unstable".
> > In fact, if you read the short text at the link
> I've posted, I'm talking about quite the opposite.
> >
> > JH. (puzzled)
> >   
> The problem with this discussion is the use of the
> subjective term "living".  The term conveys no
> technical information, and has caused the discussion to
> "go off in the weeds" in a number of different
> ways.  I don't know if you are intentionally or
> inadvertently not providing this key definition in a more
> straightforward manner.   The term obviously has some
> specific meaning to you, which is unknown to the list,
> mainly because I don't think list members read the text
> you referenced in your original post.  From your JH5 page we
> read:
>
> "My goal was to build a set of VCOs that have the
> untamed bass range power of early EMS and Moog VCOs, but
> which are tracking a keyboard voltage over 5 or more octaves
> nevertheless. I found that "untamed" Beating in
> the bass range /and/ controlled beating in higher octaves is
> not possible with standard exponential 1V/Oct oscillators. A
> good part of that special sound of early Moog and EMS
> oscillators is not because of any "randomness",
> "unstability", "instability" or
> "noisyness", as so often is said. A good deal of
> their behavior /is/ because of that, but it is not the whole
> story. There are also some very deterministic factors in
> these old circuits which have been unpleasant side effects
> for the designers back then, but which are worth a closer
> analysis when we're designing a musical VCO today. This
> is implemented in form of three "linear detune"
> potentiometers on the JH-5A VCOs."
>
> See: http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html
>
> From this one *might* conclude that linear, as opposed to
> expo, detuning is the key to the 'living VCO'.
>
> I recalled an old submission you made regarding a linear
> detuning modification to the Oberheim SEM.  Digging in my
> files I found a copy from July 10, 1997 which is archived
> here:
> http://web.archive.org/web/20051220015016/http://home.swbell.net/roy_tate/info/lindetun.html
>
> The key thought at the end of that post: "...I just
> wanted to show that there might be some *tendency*, some
> *trend* from very rich sounding synths at one end to very
> precice sounding instruments on the other end. And that the
> reason for this is not black magic, but of some physical
> nature. And, that this may have something to do with a
> linear term in VCO detuning."
>
> Many expo VCO implementations include a linear modulation
> CV port, and so on to the next question: does the
> 'living' VCO do more than provide a knob to adjust
> the linear detune amount?
>
> -Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline



From tu at alphalink.com.au  Wed Dec 10 13:27:19 2008
From: tu at alphalink.com.au (tu at alphalink.com.au)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:27:19 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Nord/Eventide buttons
Message-ID: <1228912039.493fb5a75e7f0@webmail.chariot.com.au>

Does anyone know the manufacturer of the buttons used on the Clavia Nord
synths and/or the Eventide H8000?

I am assuming they are not custom moulded.

They seem like a "half height" version of the buttons on the Oberheim
Xpander and Eventide H3000.

/TU



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Dec 10 13:30:26 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:30:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
Message-ID: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>

Hi all,

What's the best place to get hold of rubber keyboard bushings for  
Pratt-Reed type keyboards. So far, I've found two:

Archive Sound, cheaper but in the US
http://home.netcom.com/~arcsound/

Anglian Art on ebay, more expensive but UK.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Keyboard-bushings-ARP-MOOG-OBERHEIM-qty- 
of-40_W0QQitemZ310103151290QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItem#ht_117 
3wt_909

Does anyone have another source of these that I should know about?

Thanks,
Tom




From yves.usson at imag.fr  Wed Dec 10 13:34:44 2008
From: yves.usson at imag.fr (Yves Usson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:34:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Linear/Log FM (was "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?)
In-Reply-To: <F184B42A-DF31-4C15-8DF5-02EA587B140F@electricdruid.net>
References: <8053.81.58.240.234.1228907972.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<F184B42A-DF31-4C15-8DF5-02EA587B140F@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <C43F1EB9-BA8F-470F-9139-74C15B121468@imag.fr>

I am puzzled, if so how can the MS20 VCO possibly work in V/HZ, the  
voltage from the
keyboard are sent to this so called modulation input.

Yves

Le 10 d?c. 08 ? 12:42, Tom Wiltshire a ?crit :

>
> On 10 Dec 2008, at 11:19, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>
>> "Linear" on that type of modulation input means that the frequency
>> deviation has a linear relation to the modulation voltage. *This  
>> deviation
>> is proportional to the unmodulated frequency*.
>>
>> In contrast, J?rgens "linear detuning" control provides an  
>> independent
>> frequency offset.
>>
>> So with the linear modulation input (if it is not AC coupled!), or  
>> with
>> the normal fine tuning control, you could get a frequency  
>> deviation of
>> e.g. 1 Hz but this deviation would be 2 Hz that when you play a  
>> note one
>> octave higher.
>>
>> With the "linear detuning" you could set a 1 Hz deviation across  
>> the pitch
>> range. This way you can get a pleasant rate of beating between  
>> VCO's at
>> lower notes without them sounding too out of tune at higher notes.
>
>



From yves.usson at imag.fr  Wed Dec 10 13:50:14 2008
From: yves.usson at imag.fr (Yves Usson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:50:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Linear/Log FM (was "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?)
In-Reply-To: <F184B42A-DF31-4C15-8DF5-02EA587B140F@electricdruid.net>
References: <8053.81.58.240.234.1228907972.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<F184B42A-DF31-4C15-8DF5-02EA587B140F@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <30E730DE-2E0F-4077-89DD-4F45B08CBCD7@imag.fr>

OK on second thought I think I see what the problem is, the linear  
modulation
is a linear frequency modulation but it's extent is depending on the  
current
circulating in the servo circuit thus if one changes the CV at the V/ 
OCt input
one changes the linear modulation amplitude and therefore a constant  
offset applied to this input
will not be constant in frequency offset since it also depends on  
what is on the V/OCT input.

Gee that was puzzling !

Yves

Le 10 d?c. 08 ? 12:42, Tom Wiltshire a ?crit :

>
> On 10 Dec 2008, at 11:19, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>
>> "Linear" on that type of modulation input means that the frequency
>> deviation has a linear relation to the modulation voltage. *This  
>> deviation
>> is proportional to the unmodulated frequency*.
>>
>> In contrast, J?rgens "linear detuning" control provides an  
>> independent
>> frequency offset.
>>
>> So with the linear modulation input (if it is not AC coupled!), or  
>> with
>> the normal fine tuning control, you could get a frequency  
>> deviation of
>> e.g. 1 Hz but this deviation would be 2 Hz that when you play a  
>> note one
>> octave higher.
>>
>> With the "linear detuning" you could set a 1 Hz deviation across  
>> the pitch
>> range. This way you can get a pleasant rate of beating between  
>> VCO's at
>> lower notes without them sounding too out of tune at higher notes.
>
> Is this right? That wasn't my understanding of a FM linear  
> modulation input. I thought the folllowing;
>
> If it's linear, a signal of a given level produces a modulation of  
> a given depth, say 200Hz. What this represents musically will vary  
> with pitch.
> If it's logarithmic, a signal of a given level produces a  
> modulation of a given interval, say 2 semitones.
>
> So a linear detune control is just a small DC offset fed to a  
> linear FM input.
>
> Or am I hopelessly wrong about this (like lots of other stuff)?
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Dec 10 14:13:43 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:13:43 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Linear/Log FM (was "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?)
Message-ID: <6353.81.58.240.234.1228914823.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


Tom Wiltshire schreef:
>
> On 10 Dec 2008, at 11:19, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>
>> "Linear" on that type of modulation input means that the frequency
>> deviation has a linear relation to the modulation voltage. *This
>> deviation
>> is proportional to the unmodulated frequency*.
>>
>> In contrast, J?rgens "linear detuning" control provides an independent
>> frequency offset.
>>
>> So with the linear modulation input (if it is not AC coupled!), or
>> with
>> the normal fine tuning control, you could get a frequency deviation of
>> e.g. 1 Hz but this deviation would be 2 Hz that when you play a
>> note one
>> octave higher.
>>
>> With the "linear detuning" you could set a 1 Hz deviation across
>> the pitch
>> range. This way you can get a pleasant rate of beating between
>> VCO's at
>> lower notes without them sounding too out of tune at higher notes.
>
> Is this right? That wasn't my understanding of a FM linear modulation
> input. I thought the folllowing;
>
> If it's linear, a signal of a given level produces a modulation of a
> given depth, say 200Hz. What this represents musically will vary with
> pitch.
> If it's logarithmic, a signal of a given level produces a modulation
> of a given interval, say 2 semitones.
>
> So a linear detune control is just a small DC offset fed to a linear
> FM input.
>
> Or am I hopelessly wrong about this (like lots of other stuff)?

I wouldn't say hopelessly ;)

The linear FM modulation in most (exponential control) VCO's works by
addition of the modulation signal as a current to the reference current of
the exponential converter. The exponential converter multiplies this
reference current by a factor determined by the exponential control
voltage, and the VCO frequency is proportional to this resulting current.

See for example http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/vco/vco1-cco-asm2-cct.pdf

Because of this you get a modulation index (the ratio of deviation to
modulation frequency) that is independent of the pitch of the note you
play. If this were not so, the effect of FM would be much stronger for
lower notes than for higher ones.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_modulation_synthesis

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Wed Dec 10 14:54:55 2008
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:54:55 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Where to get 566's
In-Reply-To: <87441170812091225h37178e5es8261eb2dd907738d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <734345.8611.qm@web26203.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Thanks everyone for your replies, i'll skip the 556'es since they're apparently *that* valuable - i was going to use them for a restoration project but for those prices i'll just build a new circuit!

Karl


--- Den tis 2008-12-09 skrev Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com>:

> Fr?n: Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] Where to get 566's
> Till: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se
> Kopia: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Datum: tisdag 9 december 2008 21.25
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Karl Ekdahl
> <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se> wrote:
> 
> > Do they exist anywhere??
> >
> > Karl
> >
> >
> > Hi Karl,
> 
> I see them pop up on eBay every once in a while. I've
> seen ten packs go for
> about $50, but they don't seem to be available all the
> time. There was also
> a gent on the Electro-Music.com forum that had a few to
> sell (at a very good
> price, but don't know if he has them still). Check
> about 3/4ths down this
> page for a listing from "krisp14u":
> http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18270&postorder=asc&start=75
> 
> 
> You might ask on E-M, as we ('we' as in Magic
> Smoke) have sold a bunch of
> 566 VCO boards and people seem to keep finding chips to put
> in them! If you
> just need one or two, I could probably sell you some from
> my personal stash.
> Let me know.
> 
> 
> Tim (our 566 VCO is a 'live' VCO that uses a
> 'dead' chip) Servo
> -- 
> "I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order
> that I may learn how to
> do it." - Pablo Picasso


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Wed Dec 10 15:48:52 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:48:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Linear/Log FM (was "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?)
In-Reply-To: <30E730DE-2E0F-4077-89DD-4F45B08CBCD7@imag.fr>
References: <8053.81.58.240.234.1228907972.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<F184B42A-DF31-4C15-8DF5-02EA587B140F@electricdruid.net>
	<30E730DE-2E0F-4077-89DD-4F45B08CBCD7@imag.fr>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081210074651.020c9790@mail.comcast.net>

At 05:50 AM 12/10/2008, Yves Usson wrote:
>OK on second thought I think I see what the problem is, the linear
>modulation
>is a linear frequency modulation but it's extent is depending on the
>current
>circulating in the servo circuit thus if one changes the CV at the V/ OCt 
>input
>one changes the linear modulation amplitude and therefore a constant
>offset applied to this input
>will not be constant in frequency offset since it also depends on
>what is on the V/OCT input.

Yes, the control signals are multiplied. (Perhaps an easier way to think of 
it.) 



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Wed Dec 10 15:56:11 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:56:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <493F97B2.4070907@sonic.net>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091540190.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<d384bef90812092253o509f0c1an6f0c8fa70ad6ef84@mail.gmail.com>
	<984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>
	<493F97B2.4070907@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081210075130.02118198@mail.comcast.net>

At 03:19 AM 12/10/2008, Dave Manley wrote:
>JH. wrote:
>>>Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO,
>>>
>>Just to clarify: I have nowhere described my JH-5 VCOs as "unstable".
>>In fact, if you read the short text at the link I've posted, I'm talking 
>>about quite the opposite.
>>
>>JH. (puzzled)
>>
>The problem with this discussion is the use of the subjective term 
>"living".  The term conveys no technical information, and has caused the 
>discussion to "go off in the weeds" in a number of different ways.  I 
>don't know if you are intentionally or inadvertently not providing this 
>key definition in a more straightforward manner.   The term obviously has 
>some specific meaning to you, which is unknown to the list, mainly because 
>I don't think list members read the text you referenced in your original post.

Yes, Dave, that's it.  I've read the text carefully several times, aned I 
still have no idea what this special "living" quality of the old Moogs is 
supposed to be.  It's not being explained interms of the physical 
properties of the wave that is being put out.  And we are not given audio 
examples illustrating it.

Ian (really, really puzzled)



From mr at analogue.org  Wed Dec 10 16:23:18 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:23:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Linear/Log FM (was "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?)
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20081210074651.020c9790@mail.comcast.net>
References: <8053.81.58.240.234.1228907972.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<F184B42A-DF31-4C15-8DF5-02EA587B140F@electricdruid.net>
	<30E730DE-2E0F-4077-89DD-4F45B08CBCD7@imag.fr>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081210074651.020c9790@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040812100723y18c626e1q3e6e9008651d6c2@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/10 Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net>:
> At 05:50 AM 12/10/2008, Yves Usson wrote:
>>
>> OK on second thought I think I see what the problem is, the linear
>> modulation
>> is a linear frequency modulation but it's extent is depending on the
>> current
>> circulating in the servo circuit thus if one changes the CV at the V/ OCt
>> input
>> one changes the linear modulation amplitude and therefore a constant
>> offset applied to this input
>> will not be constant in frequency offset since it also depends on
>> what is on the V/OCT input.
>
> Yes, the control signals are multiplied. (Perhaps an easier way to think of
> it.)

If I remember correctly, an exponential converter could be seen as
doing something like the following mathematical job:

    y   =   A * e^(x + B)  +  C

Both A and C affect the result linerly, but in different ways.

* Modulate B, and you get exponential FM. (Normal V/oct inputs & pots)

* Modulate A, and you get linear FM scaled by the exponential factor
e^(x + B) ,  which makes the modulation index constant with respect to
exponential CV, i.e. with FM synthesis the waveform is intact when you
play different notes.
("Standard style" linear FM)

* Modulate C, and you get linear FM, unscaled! The frequency will
always be the same number of Hz away from the unmodulated frequency.
("JH *living* style" linear detune) ;-)

Having access to C on a detune knob seems very interesting indeed,
especially when using more than one VCO simultaneously. Two VCOs could
be tuned some Hz apart and the beating frequency would remain the same
regardless of pitch.
But how useful is it on a single VCO?


/mr


From jhaible at debitel.net  Wed Dec 10 16:25:13 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:25:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091540190.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<d384bef90812092253o509f0c1an6f0c8fa70ad6ef84@mail.gmail.com>
	<984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>
	<493F97B2.4070907@sonic.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081210075130.02118198@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <D5C41785235B49BDA7F2CED70DF96E70@jhsilent>

> Yes, Dave, that's it.  I've read the text carefully several times, aned I
> still have no idea what this special "living" quality of the old Moogs is
> supposed to be.

Sigh.

It's not a quality, it's a *name*.
I even put it in quotation marks.
If you don't like that name, fine.
I like it, and I'll keep it unless someone else has claimed it as a 
trademark already.
I guess if this ever gets into production, I'll add a warning that the VCO 
will *not*
jump out of its rack, alive, and walk around in the studio. Just to avoid 
false expectations, you know.

JH.












From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Dec 10 16:53:43 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:53:43 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Linear/Log FM (was "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?)
Message-ID: <20938.81.58.240.234.1228924423.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


Mattias Rickardsson schreef:

> Having access to C on a detune knob seems very interesting indeed,
> especially when using more than one VCO simultaneously. Two VCOs could
> be tuned some Hz apart and the beating frequency would remain the same
> regardless of pitch.
> But how useful is it on a single VCO?

If all you have is a single VCO not much, you need at least a second one
to beat against.

I have been planning to include a single "linear detune" control on the
2-VCO synth I'm building. It should be an easy modification on the ASM-2
VCO: a pot connected between ground and -15V, two resistors to divide the
voltage down, a 10M resistor to inject current into the virtual ground of
the integrator, and a trimpot to null the offset voltage of the integrator
opamp.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From mr at analogue.org  Wed Dec 10 17:06:16 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:06:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Linear/Log FM (was "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?)
In-Reply-To: <CD4C88E512C64AB28969348354C302E4@jhsilent>
References: <8053.81.58.240.234.1228907972.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<F184B42A-DF31-4C15-8DF5-02EA587B140F@electricdruid.net>
	<30E730DE-2E0F-4077-89DD-4F45B08CBCD7@imag.fr>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081210074651.020c9790@mail.comcast.net>
	<1f4a82040812100723y18c626e1q3e6e9008651d6c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<CD4C88E512C64AB28969348354C302E4@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040812100806k47413150t6853a2d6a80622f6@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/10 JH. <jhaible at debitel.net>:
>>Having access to C on a detune knob seems very interesting indeed,
>>especially when using more than one VCO simultaneously. Two VCOs could
>>be tuned some Hz apart and the beating frequency would remain the same
>>regardless of pitch.
>>But how useful is it on a single VCO?
>
> That's why it's "Living VCOs" and not "Living VCO". :)

Ah - suddenly it all makes sense! :-D


/mr   -   one is not fertile, but two is life.


From rdrake at data2action.com  Wed Dec 10 17:16:06 2008
From: rdrake at data2action.com (rdrake)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:16:06 -0500
Subject: =?US-ASCII?B?UmU6IFtzZGl5XSAiTGl2aW5nIFZDT3MiIFBDQiBpbiAyMDA5ID8=?=
Message-ID: <20081210161606.3651.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>

J?rgen,

didn't seem confusing to me, but that shd make it crystal clear.  

i for one am indebted to your generosity in sharing both your process and your final designs & PCBs.  hope this matures into something sonically delicious... those that don't like your recipe don't have to eat...  

best wishes
bbob

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: jhaible at debitel.net
>To: ijfritz at comcast.net
>Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:25:13
>
>> Yes, Dave, that's it.  I've read the text
>carefully several times, aned I
>> still have no idea what this special "living"
>quality of the old Moogs is
>> supposed to be.
>
>Sigh.
>
>It's not a quality, it's a *name*.
>I even put it in quotation marks.
>If you don't like that name, fine.
>I like it, and I'll keep it unless someone else has
>claimed it as a 
>trademark already.
>I guess if this ever gets into production, I'll add
>a warning that the VCO 
>will *not*
>jump out of its rack, alive, and walk around in the
>studio. Just to avoid 
>false expectations, you know.
>
>JH.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Wed Dec 10 17:16:25 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:16:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Linear/Log FM (was "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?)
In-Reply-To: <20938.81.58.240.234.1228924423.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
References: <20938.81.58.240.234.1228924423.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081210090144.02189a90@mail.comcast.net>

At 08:53 AM 12/10/2008, Simon Brouwer wrote:

>I have been planning to include a single "linear detune" control on the
>2-VCO synth I'm building. It should be an easy modification on the ASM-2
>VCO: a pot connected between ground and -15V, two resistors to divide the
>voltage down, a 10M resistor to inject current into the virtual ground of
>the integrator, and a trimpot to null the offset voltage of the integrator
>opamp.

Sounds good.  But will that VCO have enough starting stability and 
accuracy?  Remember, 1 Hz out of 2 kHz is 0.05%.  I'm not saying it can't 
be done, but I think you'll have to be careful choosing parts, keeping the 
circuit away from any kind of air currents, etc.

Ian



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Wed Dec 10 17:20:21 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:20:21 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda increases sales?
In-Reply-To: <618FD15F-FD00-4E6F-B6C9-6EBC0A1D9BFF@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <661034.62750.qm@web27603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

You say what about the pro one!!!??.........  :)

Well, how boring my question was then,hmm we are getting senile! :)

KD



--- Den ons 2008-12-10 skrev mark verbos <mverbos at earthlink.net>:
> Fr?n: mark verbos <mverbos at earthlink.net>
> How quickly we forget the discussion about the Pro-One using
> ceramics in the filter. That sounds so good people want to
> clone it. ;)
 
> Mark
 
> On Dec 9, 2008, at 7:58 PM, karl dalen wrote:
> 
> > The P08 uses ceramic caps in the VCF and ceramic caps
> in the S/H.
> > The Andromeda does the same.
> > 
> > This design technique are somewhat breaking  the rules
> as to what
> > some of the long timers here use to say about wich
> type of caps
> > to use in a VCF, usually polypropylen or MKT.
> > 
> > I have played the Andromeda acouple of times but not
> the P08 and
> > personaly i didnt like the sound at all, there was
> something strange to it.
> > 
> > So, would the P08 and Andromeda sound different if one
> would change the
> > VCF caps and do you think it's (sound wise )a
> proper design modification?
> > (yes we all know why they used ceramics, so skip the
> manufacturing issues).
> > 
> > What would be interesting to know are how much better
> the specs are
> > nowdays on NPO etc caps compared to lets say some 5-6
> years ago?
> > 
> > If your old enough you know of microphonics of ceramic
> caps so let's do
> > a wild speculation, by playing the Andromeda on its
> keyboard would those
> > tapping vibration transplant it's way into the
> ceramic caps and cause
> > intermodulation distortion? :-)
> > 
> >


      ___________________________________________________
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From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Wed Dec 10 17:34:22 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:34:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <D5C41785235B49BDA7F2CED70DF96E70@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <647960.73432.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hehe, i would like to se that! besides it's not live, its *fat*.
The VCO sunds FAT! :) There are thin Vcos and fat VCOs, Moog always
do FAT VCO's and everything else are thin! Amen!

Ohhhh, how i like these neo tech religious discussions,
completely out of line every time! :)

KD


--- Den ons 2008-12-10 skrev JH. <jhaible at debitel.net>:

> Fr?n: JH. <jhaible at debitel.net>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
> Till: "Ian Fritz" <ijfritz at comcast.net>
> Kopia: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Datum: onsdag 10 december 2008 19.55
> > Yes, Dave, that's it.  I've read the text
> carefully several times, aned I
> > still have no idea what this special
> "living" quality of the old Moogs is
> > supposed to be.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> It's not a quality, it's a *name*.
> I even put it in quotation marks.
> If you don't like that name, fine.
> I like it, and I'll keep it unless someone else has
> claimed it as a 
> trademark already.
> I guess if this ever gets into production, I'll add a
> warning that the VCO 
> will *not*
> jump out of its rack, alive, and walk around in the studio.
> Just to avoid 
> false expectations, you know.
> 
> JH.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


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From flight at flightofharmony.com  Wed Dec 10 17:34:58 2008
From: flight at flightofharmony.com (flightofharmony)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:34:58 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they made?)
In-Reply-To: <493F2D47.3090408@imt.net>
References: <d384bef90812081837h3e861ac9t497d23f01b548aef@mail.gmail.com>	<200812091759.47990.Stromeko@nexgo.de>	<493ECB3D.2070002@imt.net>	<227cdf0c8419f0a155f5878ef5e019dd.squirrel@webmail.eventualdecline.com>
	<493F2D47.3090408@imt.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c95ae5$3f416230$bdc42690$@com>

Because they have to pay someone hourly to do it. And if they're union,
"that's not in my job description".
The drawbacks of big shops. :)

Best regards, 

~flight
flight at flightofharmony.com
http://www.flightofharmony.com

-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
-> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Bob Weigel
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:45 PM
-> To: synthdiy
-> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Reproductions of Vintage Synth Parts (how are they
made?)
-> 
-> I know I've seen some of the facilities.  It's still stupid that they
-> don't have (since they have all the materials there) a much WIDER range
-> of things they'll accomidate for more reasonable prices.  For example
-> they might actually make a better hourly rate quoting someone on making
-> 20 crude knobs like these on the ARP quartet for ya know.  Say somebody
-> just wanted the plastic form and they were willing to drill the holes
-> for the shafts and goop them on.  All those people would have to do is
-> take a clay that is designed for this...lube a part and jam it down in
-> them 20X.  Take a device made to dispense the plastic and pour it in the
-> holes.  Let it set up. Hand it to them in a bag and get the 80 bucks.
-> I'll bet that would take them all over  5 minutes to make the mold, 5
-> minutes to pour....!!!  WHY are people so freaking dumb is I guess what
-> I'm asking! :-)  Why don't they want to make 400 dollars per hour when
-> the have the gear right there instead of wasting time talking to you
-> about ordering 4000 of something that they know you aren't going to go
-> for at a cost of 3400 dollars or whatever?
-> 
-> hehe.  I guess I'm more accomidating in my business.  And if I did that
-> kind of business I would actually probably do a run like that for 34
-> dollars for someone if it is as easy as I think it would be.  Then a
-> person whose lost all their slider caps like one I have here right now
-> could go in and get them at ar reasonable price.  Bore them and paint
-> them in another hour and have 80 bucks into a set of knobs you can't
-> get...but which would look identical to stock pretty much and would
-> increase the value of the instrument 140 dollars.    There are just tons
-> of things like that an innovative person could do if they had a facility
-> already set up to do bigger tasks.  Why not when it takes less time to
-> do it than to talk to someone about not doing it? :-) -Bob
-> 
-> Ben Lincoln wrote:
-> 
-> >I imagine that for mass-production, the maker is actually machining
metal
-> >to create an injection mold. I assume they're using CNC, which means
-> >having a CAD/CAM engineer model the mold and then transform it into
-> >instructions for the robot. So it's time-consuming *and* requires
skilled
-> >labour.
-> >
-> >It does mean that once you have the tooling, making individual parts is
-> >very cheap, as the listed prices attest. The results are also much more
-> >consistent than garage-molded parts, as much as I like garage work.
-> >
-> >On Tue, December 9, 2008 11:47 am, Bob Weigel wrote:
-> >
-> >
-> >>I don't know why mold make is so expensive for some parts.  Especially
-> >>if you have a pattern and it's a tapered part that can be jammed into
-> >>the clay w/ a little silicon on the surface...and pulled out.  The two
I
-> >>poured last night...one was pretty good and one had a major bubble but
-> >>that was because I was using epoxe and it was hard to 'knead' it into
-> >>the holes :-).  But I think I got a useable one when it dries
-> >>completely.  Overnight it's still pretty plastic feeling.  When it
-> >>hardens to where I can machine it I should be able to just drill a
shaft
-> >>hole and goop it onto the shaft and nobody will ever know the different
-> >>unless they tear it off :-). -Bob
-> >>
-> >>
-> >
-> >
-> >_______________________________________________
-> >Synth-diy mailing list
-> >Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> >http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> _______________________________________________
-> Synth-diy mailing list
-> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
-> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From mr at analogue.org  Wed Dec 10 17:38:36 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:38:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <647960.73432.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <D5C41785235B49BDA7F2CED70DF96E70@jhsilent>
	<647960.73432.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040812100838s6bb261e8x3c072fce3e8ceeab@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/10 karl dalen <dalenkarl at yahoo.se>:
> Hehe, i would like to se that! besides it's not live, its *fat*.
> The VCO sunds FAT! :) There are thin Vcos and fat VCOs, Moog always
> do FAT VCO's and everything else are thin! Amen!

Not to be confused with PHAT, which is an entirely different thing... ;-)


/mr


From srmaietta at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 10 17:43:25 2008
From: srmaietta at yahoo.com (Steve Maietta)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:43:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Re: "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <1f4a82040812100838s6bb261e8x3c072fce3e8ceeab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <672724.922.qm@web51708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

JH, I dont think anyone has a problem with the term "LIVING" but there really hasn't been any description about how it will sound differently than most vco's.    a proper soundfile will go a long way to helping this little thread (project) along..

~Steve


      


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Wed Dec 10 17:45:12 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:45:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <1f4a82040812100838s6bb261e8x3c072fce3e8ceeab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <957440.70335.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

FAT as in ear grease!

KD

--- Den ons 2008-12-10 skrev Mattias Rickardsson <mr at analogue.org>:

> Fr?n: Mattias Rickardsson <mr at analogue.org>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
> Till: dalenkarl at yahoo.se
> Kopia: "Ian Fritz" <ijfritz at comcast.net>, "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Datum: onsdag 10 december 2008 21.08
> 2008/12/10 karl dalen <dalenkarl at yahoo.se>:
> > Hehe, i would like to se that! besides it's not
> live, its *fat*.
> > The VCO sunds FAT! :) There are thin Vcos and fat
> VCOs, Moog always
> > do FAT VCO's and everything else are thin! Amen!
> 
> Not to be confused with PHAT, which is an entirely
> different thing... ;-)
> 
> 
> /mr


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From jhaible at debitel.net  Wed Dec 10 17:57:22 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:57:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
References: <672724.922.qm@web51708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DD0332DE14CF4FECB4DABFC849DF4293@jhsilent>


> JH, I dont think anyone has a problem with the term "LIVING" but there 
> really hasn't been any description about how it > will sound differently 
> than most vco's.    a proper soundfile will go a long way to helping this 
> little thread (project) > along..

And it will come, in time.
I didn't intend to start such a long thread. It was a pre-pre-preview for 
siomething I might offer some time later.
Right now, I'm busy with the Subtle Chorus.
(I just got notified that one of the two PCBs is completed at the factory.)

JH. 



From mr at analogue.org  Wed Dec 10 17:57:59 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:57:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <a967aa240812091033n6d7272e3m496dd49cde23834a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>
	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
	<a967aa240812091033n6d7272e3m496dd49cde23834a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040812100857h474d72eetb67ffdede313b8eb@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/9 Brandon Daniel <bdu at fdiskc.com>:
>
> I don't think it's a case of nobody believing that any instability can
> be programmed into an otherwise stable oscillator. Of course it can be
> done, and it's being done in many commercially-available virtual
> analog synthesizers.
>
> IMO, as someone who finds use for oscillators of the stable and
> unstable variety, in the cases where I want an unstable oscillator,
> I'd rather just patch in a different oscillator than use other modules
> to create that instability in a stable one.

Kind of beside the scope of this thread, but since so many have
mentioned the possibilities of making any unstable VCO by
noise-modulating a stable one:

It might be a bad way to go. :-)

Simply because everything that CAN be done will not be done, at least
not very often. It's often counterproductive to separate functions in
smaller and smaller modules beyond the point of having useful
combinations.

For example, resonance could be seen as an unimportant feature of a
VCF, since it can be added by feeding back the output to the input
with external mixer modules and so on. But having resonance IN the
filter module is simply a darn good thing. So good that any other
solution would be plainly stupid. The usefulness of imperfections in a
VCO might outrule the usefulness of having it perfect. And if you have
it perfect, you will probably rarely even think of programming an
external instability to it.

Honestly - have you patched together a subtly unstable VCO from your
near-perfect VCOs lately? No? That's what I suspected... ;-)


/mr  -  bold combinations is the difference between modules and instruments


From julian at port23.co.uk  Wed Dec 10 18:36:03 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:36:03 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
References: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <D3D51EA5E00949B693AEB8742DAA5E64@legba>

Tom, 

Give James Walker a call at synth repair services (numbers on the website)

I accquired some via him some time back, and dont recall them costing that much?

Julian


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed Dec 10 19:23:17 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:23:17 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <1f4a82040812100857h474d72eetb67ffdede313b8eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>	<493D6F35.2090004@xs4all.nl>	<AE3EC8982CDF4E0A8718EC986D7E5BB5@jhsilent>	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>	<a967aa240812091033n6d7272e3m496dd49cde23834a@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f4a82040812100857h474d72eetb67ffdede313b8eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49400915.3070308@sonic.net>

Mattias Rickardsson wrote:

> 
> Honestly - have you patched together a subtly unstable VCO from your
> near-perfect VCOs lately? No? That's what I suspected... ;-)

No...but I finally put a phase detector on the output of my cheap, 
unstable, but phat VCO, and fed the inverse back into the CV in, and at 
long last have a crystalline, sterile VCO.

:-p

Seriously though, the answer to your question might be completely 
different if a soft synth, where resources are typically less limited, 
was being used...

-Dave



From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Wed Dec 10 19:45:35 2008
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragons)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:45:35 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda
In-Reply-To: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49400E4F.7010102@googlemail.com>

Hi,
well I worked on a Jen SX 1000  two or three years ago.
and on the list of mods I found on the web, ( which the owner wanted ) 
was to change the filter caps from ceramic to silver mica. ( or was it 
polyester ? )
I wasn't sure it would make much difference, but it made a great 
difference. I would never recommend using ceramic caps in filters.
regards Peter


karl dalen wrote:
> The P08 uses ceramic caps in the VCF and ceramic caps in the S/H.
> The Andromeda does the same.
> 
> This design technique are somewhat breaking  the rules as to what
> some of the long timers here use to say about wich type of caps
> to use in a VCF, usually polypropylen or MKT.
> 
> I have played the Andromeda acouple of times but not the P08 and
> personaly i didnt like the sound at all, there was something strange to it.
> 
> So, would the P08 and Andromeda sound different if one would change the
> VCF caps and do you think it's (sound wise )a proper design modification?
> (yes we all know why they used ceramics, so skip the manufacturing issues).
> 
> What would be interesting to know are how much better the specs are
> nowdays on NPO etc caps compared to lets say some 5-6 years ago?
> 


From jmahoney at gate.net  Wed Dec 10 19:54:34 2008
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:54:34 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
Message-ID: <16003468.1228935275022.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

...
>I guess if this ever gets into production, I'll add a warning that the VCO will *not* jump out of its rack, alive, and walk around in the studio. Just to avoid false expectations, you know.
>
>JH.

Thanks for the clarification! Here I was thinking that Living VCOs would be perfect for what people like to call "self-generating patches". ;-)

John (just having a little fun)

(They mean self-running or free-running patches, of course. You've got to laugh at the notion of self-generating, as though the modules patch and re-patch themselves. HAL 9000 module, anyone?!)



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec 10 19:59:21 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:59:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda
Message-ID: <20081210185921.MFXP21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

Peter,

> well I worked on a Jen SX 1000  two or three years ago.
> and on the list of mods I found on the web, ( which the owner wanted ) 
> was to change the filter caps from ceramic to silver mica. ( or was it 
> polyester ? )
> I wasn't sure it would make much difference, but it made a great 
> difference. I would never recommend using ceramic caps in filters.

That may have been my website - where I recommend polystyrene capacitors.  Together with changing the filter input capacitor it does make a noticable difference to the filter's sound.

Neil

--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk

-----------------------------------------
Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email
Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 10 20:11:44 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:11:44 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
Message-ID: <BAY144-W23A900A3B595E5FDBD94B9C8FB0@phx.gbl>


one of my vco's, a CGS (ken stone) vco, which is being run off a +/- 12volt supply and has a tempco in place, lately has been exhibiting a LOT of instability. This started a few months ago and it sounds like there is a gremlin inside of it that is messing with its stability.

i am all for organic VCO's but this is too much. The note you are playing almost always starts dipping in pitch after a few seconds.

it's not that it isnt IN TUNE with itself, it is, and the last time I checked i think i was getting around4 ot 5 octaves of tracking.

The issue is more about WARBLE. the notes droop and have odd amounts of vibrato added as i hold a note.

so..my question is...what could cause a healthy VCO to start sounding like it's dying?


I have about 5 or 6 other modules running off the same PSU and none of those modules are showing any of the same problems.

Could it be 

Bad caps?
Ripple?
(the PSU is rated for at least .7 amps)
Or something I cant even fathom?

Up till this point, i had been very happy with this VCO and found it very flexible.
But now that i cant hold a note for too long without it dipping in frequency, it doesnt work too well with my other VCO.


ANY advice appreciated!

thanks

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 





From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec 10 20:26:56 2008
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:26:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <D6F0B3C7-5FFD-4F73-922D-144BC2161509@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <923271.96491.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

It is interesting from a synthesists point of view isn't it.  I think what he is saying is that when the piano strings interact with each other through the bridge there is a tendency, if they are perfectly in tune with each other, for them to sync with each other, but 180 degrees out of phase.  Hence diminishing the sustain.  In the synth world unintended syncing between closely tuned VCOs is also a well known problem, but the syncing tends to be in phase rather than out of phase, so the audible effects are different.

Cheers,
Nicolas


--- On Thu, 11/12/08, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

> From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
> To: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au
> Received: Thursday, 11 December, 2008, 1:02 AM
> On 10 Dec 2008, at 11:31, nicolas wrote:
> 
> > In a piano the strings don't just output energy,
> they also absorb energy from each other through the body of
> the piano.  See Weinreich -
> >
> http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/weinreic/strings.html
> 
> Thanks, this is very interesting stuff. My own slant is
> trying to digitally generate sounds that have the level of
> complexity and richness that we associate with acoustic or
> natural sounds, so this is all very relevant and interesting
> reading.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Tom


      Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed Dec 10 20:33:25 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:33:25 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda
In-Reply-To: <49400E4F.7010102@googlemail.com>
References: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49400E4F.7010102@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <49401985.3020706@sonic.net>

I'm a little surprised someone hasn't modded an evolver and posted some 
comparisons.  If it made a significant audio difference, you'd think 
this would be a popular mod.

With regard to the S/H caps - I believe they are being refreshed at a 
high rate, so don't need big, high quality caps.

dragons wrote:
> Hi,
> well I worked on a Jen SX 1000  two or three years ago.
> and on the list of mods I found on the web, ( which the owner wanted ) 
> was to change the filter caps from ceramic to silver mica. ( or was it 
> polyester ? )
> I wasn't sure it would make much difference, but it made a great 
> difference. I would never recommend using ceramic caps in filters.
> regards Peter
> 
> 
> karl dalen wrote:
>> The P08 uses ceramic caps in the VCF and ceramic caps in the S/H.
>> The Andromeda does the same.
>>





From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Dec 10 21:14:06 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:14:06 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
In-Reply-To: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
References: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <4B5F5669-1C19-436F-BF60-F09AE365CF7D@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi Tom,

Bob Weigel (SoundDoctrin) keeps them as well.

Graham

On 10 Dec 2008, at 12:30, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What's the best place to get hold of rubber keyboard bushings for  
> Pratt-Reed type keyboards. So far, I've found two:
>
> Archive Sound, cheaper but in the US
> http://home.netcom.com/~arcsound/
>
> Anglian Art on ebay, more expensive but UK.
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Keyboard-bushings-ARP-MOOG-OBERHEIM-qty-of-40_W0QQitemZ310103151290QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItem#ht_1173wt_909
>
> Does anyone have another source of these that I should know about?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From mr at analogue.org  Wed Dec 10 21:19:47 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:19:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W23A900A3B595E5FDBD94B9C8FB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W23A900A3B595E5FDBD94B9C8FB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040812101219t30363ae3v1f39e2bea71dddfc@mail.gmail.com>

2008/12/10 Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>:
>
> Could it be
>
> Bad caps?
> Ripple?
> (the PSU is rated for at least .7 amps)
> Or something I cant even fathom?

Sounds more like bad contact to me,
either in connectors, sockets, or soldering.

You can probably measure & find CV fluctuations
on the PCB, and work it out from there.


/mr


From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Wed Dec 10 21:22:55 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:22:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My Sequencer
In-Reply-To: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DD60@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>
References: <ECFDE9DA-797F-40D8-AB91-303D280DA0E9@synth.net><F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096416@eumail.eu.panavision.com><DECBD4EA-0518-4A86-B8B0-2344E0FFD125@synth.net>
	<A485C307-7960-4DB0-B2BD-5927BE9186A2@synth.net>
	<E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DBC9@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>
	<F4A27268-93CB-402B-B319-B576C435419E@synth.net>
	<E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DD60@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>
Message-ID: <9E29D2F5-5226-4943-B002-143E03FDAAEB@synth.net>

Jason,

   Ahhh, I see what you mean...
Not sure, I think the main problem with that is that I'd end up having  
to code 100's of different scales in, let's see how it goes with the  
other stuff first and see how I'm doing for time and code space :-)

Paul

On 10 Dec 2008, at 08:56, Jason Tribbeck wrote:

> Hi,
>
>>   Sorry, I forgot to say...
>> I'm not sure what you mean by major or minor chording? it's only
>> monophonic and there's no real way I can get more than one note
>> without having too many menus.
>
> Ahh - sorry, should've been a bit clearer.
>
> You've said that you want to change the root note, but I see this as
> having some of the same qualities as an arpeggiator - I was  
> wondering if
> you were going to have the ability for it to have different note
> sequences depending on what kind of chord structure was required.
>
> For example, you've set it up to do C-E-G-F-G-A-C-E (roughly CMaj). It
> would be nice to be able to change it to A-C-E-D-E-F-A-E (roughly  
> AMin),
> rather than A-C#-E...
> --
> Jason Tribbeck



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Dec 10 21:25:45 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:25:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [Ppg] Waveterm A troubleshooting
In-Reply-To: <C7CBE0CB-9622-4626-BF63-552420B4C978@scale.gs>
References: <C7CBE0CB-9622-4626-BF63-552420B4C978@scale.gs>
Message-ID: <89957B42-4E52-4110-A3AB-F9A039813C09@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi Todd,

When you say "Tumbles" what do you mean ?. I used to work in video and  
I hate to say it but the scanning looks like
it has been badly damaged, the physical scan coils could have been  
displaced. With physical movement this would
be most likely as the electronic scanning looks like it is working in  
a fashion. May need to see a TV / Monitor repair
company. I never managed to find a service manual for the Term "A"  
either. My "A" had a multi-tapped mains transformer
with a 110V / 220V selector switch but it was a later model with the  
5.25" drives.

Graham

On 10 Dec 2008, at 18:04, Todd Sines wrote:

> my Waveterm A took a few tumbles on the plane back from Germany, and  
> the screen looks like this:
>
> http://www.scale.gs/WTA_01.jpg
> http://www.scale.gs/WTA_02.jpg
>
> While this is cool looking and all it doesn't help me use the  
> Waveterm A...
>
>
> I am currently using it powered through a giant wall wart 240 to 120  
> V step down converter from Radio Shack
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062421
>
> Ideally I'd like to rewire the internal PSU to 120V because it won't  
> be going anywhere for a long while.
>
> What I don't know is if the screen might be some kind of power cycle  
> issue...like, using 60hz instead of 50hz for Europe.
> Would this affect the screen, for some weird reason? I've heard of  
> it having a slight issue with tape machines playing back slower in  
> the past..
>
> Anyone with a Waveterm A service manual, please speak up. I can't  
> seem to find anyone with a copy - just ones for the Waveterm B.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> +odd
> --
> Todd Sines, director  |  sines at scale.gs
> music/production: sines at toddsines.com
> + SCALE       :       http://www.scale.gs/
> connecting the space between + within.
> http://www.toddsines.com/
> http://www.myspace.com/toddsines
>
> _______________________________________________
> PPG mailing list
> PPG at rubidium.dyndns.org
> http://rubidium.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ppg




From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Dec 10 21:39:59 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:39:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Prophet modulation refresh rate (was NPO caps in P08 and
	Andromeda)
In-Reply-To: <49401985.3020706@sonic.net>
References: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49400E4F.7010102@googlemail.com> <49401985.3020706@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <78542459-3224-4FC5-BEA5-42E3AF6842F9@electricdruid.net>


On 10 Dec 2008, at 19:33, Dave Manley wrote:

> I'm a little surprised someone hasn't modded an evolver and posted  
> some comparisons.  If it made a significant audio difference, you'd  
> think this would be a popular mod.
>
> With regard to the S/H caps - I believe they are being refreshed at  
> a high rate, so don't need big, high quality caps.

That's a question I'd love to know the answer to: what is the refresh  
rate of the modulations in the Prophet 08?

The reason I ask is that I spend a lot of time playing with the same  
dsPIC chips Dave Smith uses in the Prophet, and I'm using them for  
much the same thing (generating LFOs and envelopes and other mod  
sources for output to a DAC) so I'd love to know what sample rate he  
uses for his modulations. I suspect it's slower than I'd presently  
countenance, and that I should get over it and recognise that there's  
really no need for mods to go as fast as I think they need to! After  
all, I've never read a review or seen a blog entry complaining about  
slow envelopes or sluggish modulation on the new Prophet, although  
one or two mention that some parts of the analogue circuitry don't  
keep up with the highest LFO rates (260Hz).

T.



From tensiontype at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 10 23:27:10 2008
From: tensiontype at hotmail.com (Sean Ellis)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:27:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda
References: <20081210185921.MFXP21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-DAV107382ABF182DE9B2A63B8B3FB0@phx.gbl>

The mc202, and from memory the sh101, both use ceramics for the filter. If I 
can get some polystyrene caps locally I will swap them out and make some 
comparison recordings, might not happen for a while though :-)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neil Johnson" <neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com>
To: "dragons" <dragon.servicing at googlemail.com>; 
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda


> Peter,
>
>> well I worked on a Jen SX 1000  two or three years ago.
>> and on the list of mods I found on the web, ( which the owner wanted )
>> was to change the filter caps from ceramic to silver mica. ( or was it
>> polyester ? )
>> I wasn't sure it would make much difference, but it made a great
>> difference. I would never recommend using ceramic caps in filters.
>
> That may have been my website - where I recommend polystyrene capacitors. 
> Together with changing the filter input capacitor it does make a noticable 
> difference to the filter's sound.
>
> Neil
>
> --
> http://www.njohnson.co.uk
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email
> Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Wed Dec 10 23:51:34 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:51:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
In-Reply-To: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
References: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <494047F6.2040806@imt.net>

 I stock them Tom.  My prices are a lot cheaper than the others as I 
recall.  .35 cents and down for group members.  Just write me with the 
quantity you want. -Bob

Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What's the best place to get hold of rubber keyboard bushings for  
> Pratt-Reed type keyboards. So far, I've found two:
>
> Archive Sound, cheaper but in the US
> http://home.netcom.com/~arcsound/
>
> Anglian Art on ebay, more expensive but UK.
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Keyboard-bushings-ARP-MOOG-OBERHEIM-qty- 
> of-40_W0QQitemZ310103151290QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItem#ht_117 
> 3wt_909
>
> Does anyone have another source of these that I should know about?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Wed Dec 10 23:53:25 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:53:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
In-Reply-To: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
References: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49404865.5040200@imt.net>

 I stock them Tom.  My prices are a lot cheaper than the others as I 
recall.  .35 cents and down for group members.  Just write me with the 
quantity you want. -Bob

PS I should note that I sell the ungreased ones...but you just hit them 
with son of a gun or armor all silicon lube after they are mounted.  
Makes them easier to deal with. 37,  49, 61 or 71 X "DOH" is a lot of 
irritation to avoid :-)  I've never used the greased ones actually but 
it just doesn't seem like a good idea.


Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What's the best place to get hold of rubber keyboard bushings for  
> Pratt-Reed type keyboards. So far, I've found two:
>
> Archive Sound, cheaper but in the US
> http://home.netcom.com/~arcsound/
>
> Anglian Art on ebay, more expensive but UK.
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Keyboard-bushings-ARP-MOOG-OBERHEIM-qty- 
> of-40_W0QQitemZ310103151290QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItem#ht_117 
> 3wt_909
>
> Does anyone have another source of these that I should know about?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From KingRavine at comcast.net  Wed Dec 10 23:57:20 2008
From: KingRavine at comcast.net (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:57:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
References: <BAY144-W23A900A3B595E5FDBD94B9C8FB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FC5D6B80D87B466EAFB510B3E8A13FDE@HypoLuxa>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Snazelle" <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
To: "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:11 PM
Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive


>
> one of my vco's, a CGS (ken stone) vco, which is being run off a +/- 
> 12volt supply and has a tempco in place, lately has been exhibiting a LOT 
> of instability. This started a few months ago and it sounds like there is 
> a gremlin inside of it that is messing with its stability.
>
> i am all for organic VCO's but this is too much. The note you are playing 
> almost always starts dipping in pitch after a few seconds.
>
> it's not that it isnt IN TUNE with itself, it is, and the last time I 
> checked i think i was getting around4 ot 5 octaves of tracking.
>
> The issue is more about WARBLE. the notes droop and have odd amounts of 
> vibrato added as i hold a note.
>
> so..my question is...what could cause a healthy VCO to start sounding like 
> it's dying?
>
>
> I have about 5 or 6 other modules running off the same PSU and none of 
> those modules are showing any of the same problems.
>
> Could it be
>
> Bad caps?
> Ripple?
> (the PSU is rated for at least .7 amps)
> Or something I cant even fathom?
>
> Up till this point, i had been very happy with this VCO and found it very 
> flexible.
> But now that i cant hold a note for too long without it dipping in 
> frequency, it doesnt work too well with my other VCO.
>
>
> ANY advice appreciated!
>
> thanks
>



Hi Dan,

I'd start simple:

jack is dirty / corroded?
Loose wire to the CV jack / tuning controls?
Bad tuning pot?

Use a voltmeter or scope on the CV summer and see what's happening. 
Also, look at the power rails with a scope

I'd also try disconnecting every other module from the power supply to see 
if the problem goes away.

Dave Magnuson 



From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 00:30:33 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:30:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>
References: <9797.81.58.240.234.1228736022.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<493D8837.7040305@xs4all.nl>
	<ED5FAABA813A4507B60511022BA76C6F@jhsilent>
	<493DA62C.6010604@xs4all.nl>
	<200812090117.mB91HqcA001386@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<d384bef90812082328gb21c332i6b881ee2735b09e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209023915.02153e70@mail.comcast.net>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812091540190.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<d384bef90812092253o509f0c1an6f0c8fa70ad6ef84@mail.gmail.com>
	<984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812101530x7e9062c3nc2d5066af80a4be3@mail.gmail.com>

Right.  I'm basically responding to the others who have moved on to
unstable VCO's.  At that point I still didn't know what you were
referring to as being "alive" and figured there was no specific
description of what that meant.

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:37 AM, JH. <jhaible at debitel.net> wrote:
>> Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO,
>
> Just to clarify: I have nowhere described my JH-5 VCOs as "unstable".
> In fact, if you read the short text at the link I've posted, I'm talking
> about quite the opposite.
>
> JH. (puzzled)
>
>


From guitaricon at verizon.net  Thu Dec 11 00:38:46 2008
From: guitaricon at verizon.net (jeff brown)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:38:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
References: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <AF3BA658A0B44D429B36D7B69CCEE82E@jeff>

In the UK there is also http://synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Wiltshire" <tom at electricdruid.net>
To: "sdiy DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:30 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings


> Hi all,
> 
> What's the best place to get hold of rubber keyboard bushings for  
> Pratt-Reed type keyboards. So far, I've found two:
> 
> Archive Sound, cheaper but in the US
> http://home.netcom.com/~arcsound/
> 
> Anglian Art on ebay, more expensive but UK.
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Keyboard-bushings-ARP-MOOG-OBERHEIM-qty- 
> of-40_W0QQitemZ310103151290QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItem#ht_117 
> 3wt_909
> 
> Does anyone have another source of these that I should know about?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu Dec 11 01:07:04 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:07:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
In-Reply-To: <AF3BA658A0B44D429B36D7B69CCEE82E@jeff>
References: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
	<AF3BA658A0B44D429B36D7B69CCEE82E@jeff>
Message-ID: <494059A8.2050200@imt.net>

Nice site they have there...a little pricey on the bushings though.  
Only costs a couple dollars to send them over the pond and I'm less than 
half the price even in small quantities.  But wasn't someone asking 
about arp 2600 slider caps?    The sliders are pretty expensive too but 
at least they have them. Some of those are near impossible to find.  I 
only have a few of the 100K linear I think. -Bob

jeff brown wrote:

> In the UK there is also http://synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Wiltshire" 
> <tom at electricdruid.net>
> To: "sdiy DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:30 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> What's the best place to get hold of rubber keyboard bushings for  
>> Pratt-Reed type keyboards. So far, I've found two:
>>
>> Archive Sound, cheaper but in the US
>> http://home.netcom.com/~arcsound/
>>
>> Anglian Art on ebay, more expensive but UK.
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Keyboard-bushings-ARP-MOOG-OBERHEIM-qty- 
>> of-40_W0QQitemZ310103151290QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItem#ht_117 
>> 3wt_909
>>
>> Does anyone have another source of these that I should know about?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Thu Dec 11 01:15:09 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:15:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: SV: [sdiy] Prophet modulation refresh rate (was NPO caps in P08 and
	Andromeda)
In-Reply-To: <78542459-3224-4FC5-BEA5-42E3AF6842F9@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <543715.18056.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

The updaterate can be figured out by the means of callculating the Fc of the smothness RC net on each S/H chanell!

Or by taking a look at the rate of the LFOs and do an estimation from there. Or sampling a oscillator with the 
shortest decay curve set.

Perhaps?!

KD

--- Den tors 2008-12-11 skrev Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>:

> Fr?n: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> ?mne: [sdiy] Prophet modulation refresh rate (was NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda)
> Till: "Dave Manley" <dlmanley at sonic.net>
> Kopia: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Datum: torsdag 11 december 2008 01.09
> On 10 Dec 2008, at 19:33, Dave Manley wrote:
> 
> > I'm a little surprised someone hasn't modded
> an evolver and posted some comparisons.  If it made a
> significant audio difference, you'd think this would be
> a popular mod.
> > 
> > With regard to the S/H caps - I believe they are being
> refreshed at a high rate, so don't need big, high
> quality caps.
> 
> That's a question I'd love to know the answer to:
> what is the refresh rate of the modulations in the Prophet
> 08?
> 
> The reason I ask is that I spend a lot of time playing with
> the same dsPIC chips Dave Smith uses in the Prophet, and
> I'm using them for much the same thing (generating LFOs
> and envelopes and other mod sources for output to a DAC) so
> I'd love to know what sample rate he uses for his
> modulations. I suspect it's slower than I'd
> presently countenance, and that I should get over it and
> recognise that there's really no need for mods to go as
> fast as I think they need to! After all, I've never read
> a review or seen a blog entry complaining about slow
> envelopes or sluggish modulation on the new Prophet,
> although one or two mention that some parts of the analogue
> circuitry don't keep up with the highest LFO rates
> (260Hz).
> 
> T.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      ___________________________________________________
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From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 01:20:02 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:20:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <687137.86426.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <d384bef90812092253o509f0c1an6f0c8fa70ad6ef84@mail.gmail.com>
	<687137.86426.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812101620g7ddf9a3bw38c323258ca33ce1@mail.gmail.com>

If you were to open the .wav file I posted, in a wave editing program,
you see some of that amplitude jitter on the Moog waveform but not the
digital waveform.  That's because when sampling a waveform, on one
wave cycle the sample might be right on the point of the waveform, on
another cycle samples may hit on either side of it, so you'll see less
of a point.  If anything, sampling adds randomness.  But when viewing
an animated fourier display, analog waveforms are very sterile and
stable.  Compare that to an acoustic instrument where the upper
harmonics are a noisy mess.

And the thing is that there isn't anything special about the Moog
waveforms that put them beyond other VCO's either in their sound or
any of their characteristics.  That was the point of my tests. People
would say the Moog sawtooth sounds so fat, or organic, or warm, or
some other superlative compared to the VCO's, but that's not the case.
 That's just fantasy.  This has nothing to do with how the Moog VCO's
track.  That's an entirely different issue.

And to address JH's description of the TGS and AH wars.  The reason
there was fighting there was because people were speculating about why
Moog waveforms sounded the way they did without actually comparing
them to others to see if they really did sound different or not, nor
actually looking at and measuring whether what they claimed was there
really existed.  I'm into reality, not fantasy.  But other's are into
fantasy, and when somebody puts hard reality in front of them that
they can't argue against, then it's the usual "shoot the messenger"
behavior so prevalent on these lists.  Some people don't like their
theories being proven wrong in front of other people, so they blow up
and start name calling.

And in regards to tuning, it's possible on an analog VCO to have it
tuned such that it's a little stretched or compressed.  My MOTM is
slightly off and I need to re-tune the thing.  With a number of my
sounds, I patch in a key triggered random sampled noise to offset the
pitch of the note so it behaves like a fretless instrument.  That will
add life to sounds that a typical analog VCO won't give you.  For
instance, a brass patch may sound organ like, but with the above
technique it suddenly sounds loose and chorusy.  That's the advantage
of doing things yourself, because you can do it to the point where it
is easily audible.


On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 5:40 AM, nicolas <nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> I think you may have struck on something.  Maybe the VCOs that people love so much are not jittery or unstable in their fundamental frequency (unless deliberately fed noisy CV).  But are somehow unstable in their waveshape.  That is to say unstable in their higher harmonic content.
>
> Maybe another avenue for someone to analyse who has access to some dry wave files and time on their hands.
>
> I know that my personal triangle to saw waveshaper puts out a sawtooth that wobbles around on the scope quite a bit even when the triangle going into it is nice and solid looking.  Its the pointy bits of the saw that are the wobbliest and they wouldn't affect your 65Hz jitter analysis.  My ears aren't quite discerning enough to reliably pick the difference though.
>
> Cheers,
> Nicolas
>
>
> --- On Wed, 10/12/08, Ken Elhardt <ken.elhardt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Ken Elhardt <ken.elhardt at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
>> To: "Antti Huovilainen" <ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi>
>> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Received: Wednesday, 10 December, 2008, 7:53 PM
>> This was several years ago and spanned the The-Gas-Station
>> and
>> Analogue Heaven lists.  It started out with people claiming
>> the Moog
>> VCO was real magical and nothing else on earth sounded
>> anything like
>> it.  You know, the usual B.S. that fills these lists.
>> After getting
>> actual Moog wav files from a couple of different people it
>> turned out
>> there was nothing special about it at all.  It's
>> waveforms looked and
>> sounded like others, it had LESS jitter than other
>> oscillators, and
>> drift could be easily programmed, and all kinds of other
>> VCO's were
>> tested and compared too and files were put online to put to
>> rest some
>> of the ridiculous things people said about them.  I posted
>> cycle to
>> cycle jitter measurements too.  Most of those files are no
>> longer
>> online except the very last one I posted which compared
>> that supposed
>> super magical Moog 901 VCO with a miserable digital
>> waveform generated
>> in Cool Edit Pro and there is virtually no audible
>> difference.  The
>> wav file below alternates between the Moog and a digital
>> waveform a
>> few times over the length of the file.  Jitter measurements
>> comparing
>> the Moog and a modern Technosaurus VCO are after my text
>> and it can be
>> seen that the Moog has about 3 times less.
>>
>> http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/Sawtooths.wav
>>
>> Now if somebody is designing a new unstable VCO, that's
>> fine, if
>> that's what is meant by "living".  If I want
>> unstable, I use my
>> Doepfers.  But nobody should be claiming that the Moog VCO
>> is somehow
>> different/better than other VCO's.  There just
>> isn't anything there to
>> back that up.
>>
>> One of the many hypothetical potential products that
>> I'd like to come
>> out with is called the Acoustic Oscillator and produces
>> "alive" and
>> constantly changing waveforms the same way acoustic
>> instruments do.
>> Prototyping the thing up in Reaktor has been on my list for
>> a couple
>> of years now.
>>
>> ------
>> Moog Modular 901 VCO 65Hz, 40 cycles measured.
>> Cycle to cycle jitter in microseconds.
>>
>> +1.4  -0.7  -0.7  0.0  +2.1  -0.7  -0.7  0.0
>> +0.7  +0.7  0.0  +2.8  -2.1  -0.7  +1.4  0.0
>> 0.0  0.0  0.0  -0.7  0.0  +0.7  -0.7  +0.7
>> 0.0  -1.4  +1.4  +7.0  -1.4  0.0  0.0  -1.4
>> +0.7  0.0  +0.7  0.0  0.0  0.0  -0.7
>>
>>
>> Technosaurus Selector VCO 65Hz, 20 cycles measured.
>> Cycle to cycle jitter in microseconds.
>>
>> -2.1  +3.5  -4.9  +3.5  -2.1  -3.5  +2.1  +0.7
>> 0.0  +1.4  -2.1  -2.1  +3.5  +2.8  -6.3  +4.2
>> +1.4  -2.1  -2.1
>> ------
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Antti Huovilainen
>> <ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi> wrote:
>> > On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Ian Fritz wrote:
>> >
>> >> Ken did a superb, thorough study of this.
>> It's really depressing that
>> >> nobody seems to believe his results.
>> >
>> > I seem to have missed this. Can someone post a url to
>> the results? (Which of
>> > course include detailed explanations of the tests,
>> right? (*))
>> >
>> > Antti
>> >
>> > "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always
>> a boom tomorrow"
>> >  -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova
>> >
>> > *: Any study which only says "Here are the
>> results, but we're not telling
>> > you exactly how we got them" is largely useless.
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>      Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From julian at port23.co.uk  Thu Dec 11 01:21:21 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:21:21 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
References: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
	<AF3BA658A0B44D429B36D7B69CCEE82E@jeff>
Message-ID: <3AC10206D18C49EE944B2E9E5303957D@legba>


>>In the UK there is also http://synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm

= =

> Anglian Art on ebay,

: )

j


From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Dec 11 02:35:08 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:35:08 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
In-Reply-To: <AF3BA658A0B44D429B36D7B69CCEE82E@jeff>
References: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
	<AF3BA658A0B44D429B36D7B69CCEE82E@jeff>
Message-ID: <6EFD3250-3A25-4482-95A4-79AC86E2BC7F@blueyonder.co.uk>

Jeff,

When you get to the checkout it looks like "Synthrestore" and "Anglian  
Art" are
the same business.

Graham

On 10 Dec 2008, at 23:38, jeff brown wrote:

> In the UK there is also http://synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Wiltshire" <tom at electricdruid.net 
> >
> To: "sdiy DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:30 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> What's the best place to get hold of rubber keyboard bushings for   
>> Pratt-Reed type keyboards. So far, I've found two:
>> Archive Sound, cheaper but in the US
>> http://home.netcom.com/~arcsound/
>> Anglian Art on ebay, more expensive but UK.
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Keyboard-bushings-ARP-MOOG-OBERHEIM-qty-  
>> of 
>> -40_W0QQitemZ310103151290QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItem 
>> #ht_117 3wt_909
>> Does anyone have another source of these that I should know about?
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Thu Dec 11 02:36:13 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:36:13 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda
In-Reply-To: <49401985.3020706@sonic.net>
References: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49400E4F.7010102@googlemail.com> <49401985.3020706@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <001b01c95b30$dafa89e0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>

Would anyone care to comment on exactly which property (or properties) of
the capacitors is (are) responsible for this noticeable improvement.

>From what I can tell, the big advantages of polystyrene over other caps are
their very low leakage, which is important for holding voltages for long
periods in S&H circuits.  However, would this be a significant issue for
filters?  (I don't know; I'm asking.)

Another issue is accuracy, which I would imagine is relatively important for
filters, but is unimportant for S&H circuits.  However, there are lots of
accurate caps which aren't polystyrene.

Finally, I understand that ceramic caps can self-resonate above certain
frequencies.  This would obviously be pretty devastating to a filter.
However, the frequency for self-resonance is typically well above the audio
range (the book in front of me says 100 kHz).

Polystyrene caps are expensive and a pain to get, whereas silver mica and
polypropylene caps are cheap and widely available.  If the capacitor doesn't
have to hold a charge rock-constant for a significant period of time, then
why bother with polystyrene?

Enquiring minds are dying to know...

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C.  V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"

The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dave Manley
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:33 AM
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda

I'm a little surprised someone hasn't modded an evolver and posted some 
comparisons.  If it made a significant audio difference, you'd think 
this would be a popular mod.

With regard to the S/H caps - I believe they are being refreshed at a 
high rate, so don't need big, high quality caps.

dragons wrote:
> Hi,
> well I worked on a Jen SX 1000  two or three years ago.
> and on the list of mods I found on the web, ( which the owner wanted ) 
> was to change the filter caps from ceramic to silver mica. ( or was it 
> polyester ? )
> I wasn't sure it would make much difference, but it made a great 
> difference. I would never recommend using ceramic caps in filters.
> regards Peter
> 
> 
> karl dalen wrote:
>> The P08 uses ceramic caps in the VCF and ceramic caps in the S/H.
>> The Andromeda does the same.
>>



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From guitaricon at verizon.net  Thu Dec 11 02:45:14 2008
From: guitaricon at verizon.net (jeff brown)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:45:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings
References: <20A3C7FB-C038-48FC-A26E-D4E1F95BA3FC@electricdruid.net>
	<AF3BA658A0B44D429B36D7B69CCEE82E@jeff>
	<3AC10206D18C49EE944B2E9E5303957D@legba>
Message-ID: <924D9FBC14DE434887EDCE9E9077F40E@jeff>

I knew that. ;^)    Synthrestore prices can be a little bit cheaper than on 
ebay (Anglian Art) though (at least that used to be the case for ARP 
sliders).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julian" <julian at port23.co.uk>
To: "jeff brown" <guitaricon at verizon.net>; "sdiy DIY" 
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Pratt-Reed keyboard bushings


>
>>>In the UK there is also http://synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm
>
> = =
>
>> Anglian Art on ebay,
>
> : )
>
> j 



From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Thu Dec 11 03:38:15 2008
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:38:15 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812101530x7e9062c3nc2d5066af80a4be3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>
	<d384bef90812101530x7e9062c3nc2d5066af80a4be3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE690@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>

Hi all,
Obvious question:
Has someone tried replacing the Moog VCO design
with one of "our" alternatives - in the same Moog system?
I guess if you have a nice Moog modular
you could give it a go...
Sound "yucky"?
Then try "messing up" the VCO by adding supply noise modulation
inputs - "soft" modulations like ripple amplification, 60Hz modulation, and
soft sync variations...  
Seems like the best way to get a match and an understanding...

Barry




From grichter at asapnet.net  Thu Dec 11 04:23:20 2008
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:23:20 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Spartan 3 and camera memory cards
In-Reply-To: <001b01c95b30$dafa89e0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49400E4F.7010102@googlemail.com> <49401985.3020706@sonic.net>
	<001b01c95b30$dafa89e0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <A225C14D-326E-4447-B70E-6DA64242EF9F@asapnet.net>

Anybody know how to access modern camera card data with a Spartan 3?

The old cards were like dynamic RAM, give them a RAS and a CAS and  
they returned the byte at the site.

Modern cards have file systems, which if memory serves, requires an  
Operating System, needing a FAT to handle sectors, bad sectors, non- 
sequential sectors and all kinds of complications having to do with a  
non-linear address space. My research shows all over the counter  
flash cards with linear address spaces to be gone.

A simple OS for Picoblaze would work, I just want to update large  
data chunks of internal flash from data on a camera card. Then switch  
to internal flash, the cards work is done.  Xilinx already makes a  
solution for updating the FPGA it self via flash cards, but not  
outboard data chunks. The status of that chip is also up in the air.  
First they say they do and then they don't, and then they say they  
will and then they won't, they're undecided now, what am I gonna do?  
(Thanks Django).

All suggestions appreciated. And for those who care, this MAY end up  
in a commercial product with a production run of 50 units lifetime.

Thank you kindly.


From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Thu Dec 11 04:38:12 2008
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:38:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Spartan 3 and camera memory cards
In-Reply-To: <A225C14D-326E-4447-B70E-6DA64242EF9F@asapnet.net>
References: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49400E4F.7010102@googlemail.com> <49401985.3020706@sonic.net>
	<001b01c95b30$dafa89e0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
	<A225C14D-326E-4447-B70E-6DA64242EF9F@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <62C9B897-5FF6-418A-9C09-8EAF29B3D0EA@cox.net>

Grant,

Modern MMC, SD & SDHC flash memory cards don't necessarily require an  
OS, FAT file systems, etc. It is possible to access the raw contents  
in a linear fashion, and there are a lot of folks out there who do  
just that for FPGA interfacing. Writing raw data to them from a PC may  
require non-standard tools & techniques but is possible.

If you decide to go with standard filesystems though, there is freely  
available code to support such. Not sure that it's been ported to  
Picoblaze, but the code and documentation is there. Picoblaze may  
present a challenge due to limited code space, but I know that SD/SDHC  
FAT filesystems are available for PIC, dsPIC, ARM, AVR, etc.

I'd recommend searching through the archives of the comp.arch.fpga and  
comp.arch.embedded Usenet newsgroups - I've seen a lot of discussions  
on this topic there.

Eric

On Dec 10, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Grant Richter wrote:

> Anybody know how to access modern camera card data with a Spartan 3?
>
> The old cards were like dynamic RAM, give them a RAS and a CAS and  
> they returned the byte at the site.
>
> Modern cards have file systems, which if memory serves, requires an  
> Operating System, needing a FAT to handle sectors, bad sectors, non- 
> sequential sectors and all kinds of complications having to do with  
> a non-linear address space. My research shows all over the counter  
> flash cards with linear address spaces to be gone.
>
> A simple OS for Picoblaze would work, I just want to update large  
> data chunks of internal flash from data on a camera card. Then  
> switch to internal flash, the cards work is done.  Xilinx already  
> makes a solution for updating the FPGA it self via flash cards, but  
> not outboard data chunks. The status of that chip is also up in the  
> air. First they say they do and then they don't, and then they say  
> they will and then they won't, they're undecided now, what am I  
> gonna do? (Thanks Django).
>
> All suggestions appreciated. And for those who care, this MAY end up  
> in a commercial product with a production run of 50 units lifetime.
>
> Thank you kindly.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Thu Dec 11 05:38:12 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:38:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] NPO caps in P08 and Andromeda
In-Reply-To: <001b01c95b30$dafa89e0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49400E4F.7010102@googlemail.com> <49401985.3020706@sonic.net>
	<001b01c95b30$dafa89e0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081210213323.020da960@mail.comcast.net>

At 06:36 PM 12/10/2008, David G. Dixon wrote:

>Polystyrene caps are expensive and a pain to get, whereas silver mica and
>polypropylene caps are cheap and widely available.  If the capacitor doesn't
>have to hold a charge rock-constant for a significant period of time, then
>why bother with polystyrene?

1.) Low leakage is also important for accurate VCO tuning

2.) Negligible soakage, nonlinearity, etc.

That being said, I have found that NP0 (C0G) ceramic caps are very good in 
these areas, and I'm now usually using them in place of polystrene.


   Ian 



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 11 06:16:05 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:16:05 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
In-Reply-To: <FC5D6B80D87B466EAFB510B3E8A13FDE@HypoLuxa>
References: <BAY144-W23A900A3B595E5FDBD94B9C8FB0@phx.gbl>
	<FC5D6B80D87B466EAFB510B3E8A13FDE@HypoLuxa>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W144D01D9A5C46F6A949980C8F80@phx.gbl>


thanks for the great advice

this might be a good time to get more used to my scope

let me ask...i am still VERY new at using my scope.

what am i looking for ideally on the power rails? and what sort of settings are good for this?

in the last year i have been so busy that my scope hasnt seen nearly as much use as i would like and 
i am still a bit unsure of it at times

thanks

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 




> From: KingRavine at comcast.net
> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:57:20 -0500
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Snazelle" 
> To: "sdiy" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:11 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
> 
> 
>>
>> one of my vco's, a CGS (ken stone) vco, which is being run off a +/- 
>> 12volt supply and has a tempco in place, lately has been exhibiting a LOT 
>> of instability. This started a few months ago and it sounds like there is 
>> a gremlin inside of it that is messing with its stability.
>>
>> i am all for organic VCO's but this is too much. The note you are playing 
>> almost always starts dipping in pitch after a few seconds.
>>
>> it's not that it isnt IN TUNE with itself, it is, and the last time I 
>> checked i think i was getting around4 ot 5 octaves of tracking.
>>
>> The issue is more about WARBLE. the notes droop and have odd amounts of 
>> vibrato added as i hold a note.
>>
>> so..my question is...what could cause a healthy VCO to start sounding like 
>> it's dying?
>>
>>
>> I have about 5 or 6 other modules running off the same PSU and none of 
>> those modules are showing any of the same problems.
>>
>> Could it be
>>
>> Bad caps?
>> Ripple?
>> (the PSU is rated for at least .7 amps)
>> Or something I cant even fathom?
>>
>> Up till this point, i had been very happy with this VCO and found it very 
>> flexible.
>> But now that i cant hold a note for too long without it dipping in 
>> frequency, it doesnt work too well with my other VCO.
>>
>>
>> ANY advice appreciated!
>>
>> thanks
>>
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> I'd start simple:
> 
> jack is dirty / corroded?
> Loose wire to the CV jack / tuning controls?
> Bad tuning pot?
> 
> Use a voltmeter or scope on the CV summer and see what's happening. 
> Also, look at the power rails with a scope
> 
> I'd also try disconnecting every other module from the power supply to see 
> if the problem goes away.
> 
> Dave Magnuson 
> 



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 11 06:23:41 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:23:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] cool modulations (was live vco)
In-Reply-To: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE690@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
References: <984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent>
	<d384bef90812101530x7e9062c3nc2d5066af80a4be3@mail.gmail.com>
	<6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE690@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W4B6220F2EF66CEEE0B8B2C8F80@phx.gbl>


in reference to Barry's comment

could someone explain how we might go about adding:

 supply noise modulation
inputs - 
"soft" modulations like ripple amplification, 60Hz modulation, and soft sync variations

is this actually adding noise to the POWER supply???

thanks


--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 




> Subject: RE: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:38:15 -0800
> From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> 
> Hi all,
> Obvious question:
> Has someone tried replacing the Moog VCO design
> with one of "our" alternatives - in the same Moog system?
> I guess if you have a nice Moog modular
> you could give it a go...
> Sound "yucky"?
> Then try "messing up" the VCO by adding supply noise modulation
> inputs - "soft" modulations like ripple amplification, 60Hz modulation, and
> soft sync variations...  
> Seems like the best way to get a match and an understanding...
> 
> Barry
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Thu Dec 11 06:42:21 2008
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:42:21 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
In-Reply-To: <493F1D0D.9010500@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <742139.46585.qm@web26203.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Incidentally, i too will have to make a *lot* of slider-holes in the near future, and i also do not have access to a mill. What about using a nibbler? I'm talking about perhaps 50 sliders..

Karl


--- Den ons 2008-12-10 skrev Mark Rivera <marr at lumin.us>:

> Fr?n: Mark Rivera <marr at lumin.us>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] slider/fader slot cutting techniques
> Till: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Datum: onsdag 10 december 2008 02.36
> Paul Dickow wrote:
> > Honestly, it would be as much effort identifying a
> > friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend with a milling tool, at
> this point- I'm
> > not connected to anyone doing hobbyist activities who
> would have a
> > milling machine.
> 
> Paul, the reason I asked about the part number for the
> enclosure is I do have a mill. By some synthesizer/diy
> coincidence, it is made by Roland. :)
> 
> If you're interested, shoot me the CAD or a sketch or
> something and we'll see if it is possible. The size of
> the enclosure is small enough for me to get the panel into
> the machine. One issue that would have to be looked at is
> how best to fix the panel in place so it doesn't shift
> while the work is being done.
> 
> Right now all I have are 0.125" end mills and drill
> bits. The min width of a slot would be around 0.130".
> If you have some time to wait, we could see about getting a
> smaller-diameter bit.
> 
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From patchell at cox.net  Thu Dec 11 06:51:46 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:51:46 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
In-Reply-To: <643888bd0812100501kc485e4cv7f4f8aff1445d256@mail.gmail.com>
References: <493DFD85.9020203@cox.net>
	<643888bd0812100501kc485e4cv7f4f8aff1445d256@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4940AA72.4030503@cox.net>

I have been doing digital design since about 1975...using FPGAs is just 
another phase of doing the same thing...instead of using 74xxx 
logic...now I write in verilog.  There are a lot of books on Amazon.com 
that cover this subject...although, I wouldn't really know which one 
would be the best to begin with.

And FPGA synths are a lot of fun...and there are more ways to skin this 
cat than you can shake a leg at...

-Jim

HL-SDK Synths wrote:
> I'm interested as well, I have a question though, where did you learn 
> all of this FPGA ...stuff? I've looked around on the web and I'm no 
> computer science guy. Is it all hidden in the textbooks? I think FPGA 
> synths are crazy cool!
> 
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Jim Patchell <patchell at cox.net 
> <mailto:patchell at cox.net>> wrote:
> 
>     Hope y'all aren't getting tired of these progress reports.
> 
>     But it looks like I have got the basics of the four pole filter
>     working (at least in the simulator).  It is going to take a bit more
>     testing to verify that all of the data is going where and when it is
>     supposed to...
> 
>     The filter has a four clock pipe delay through it...i.e. it takes
>     four clock cycles to complete one sample...but since it is
>     pipelined...it only takes 512 clocks to complete all 512 filters...
> 
>     One of the things I need to verify yet is that the resonance control
>     works as it should.
> 
>     Now, also to give you an idea of exactly what I am doing, this is
>     basically the same kind of filter you would make with an
>     SSM2040...without, unfortunately, the non-linear distortion that is
>     inherent in the SSM2040.  I am not sure if I will be able to add a
>     non-linearity in the filter loop or not.  That may be some future
>     experiment.
> 
>     Anyway...it is sure looking promising.
> 
>     -Jim
>     ----------------------------------------------
>     Visit http://www.noniandjim.com <http://www.noniandjim.com/>
>     SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
>     ----------------------------------------------
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Synth-diy mailing list
>     Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl <mailto:Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>     http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Thu Dec 11 06:57:19 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:57:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
In-Reply-To: <4940AA72.4030503@cox.net>
References: <493DFD85.9020203@cox.net>
	<643888bd0812100501kc485e4cv7f4f8aff1445d256@mail.gmail.com>
	<4940AA72.4030503@cox.net>
Message-ID: <14872DE8-0EC3-4795-81DB-D1E13D0ACC28@ece.gatech.edu>


On Dec 11, 2008, at 12:51 AM, Jim Patchell wrote:

> I have been doing digital design since about 1975...using FPGAs is  
> just another phase of doing the same thing...instead of using 74xxx  
> logic...now I write in verilog.  There are a lot of books on  
> Amazon.com that cover this subject...although, I wouldn't really  
> know which one would be the best to begin with.

For a good old-school time, check out the digital synthesis board on  
the DK Synergy. It's got about 120 standard TTL chips on it!

- Aaron



From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Thu Dec 11 07:01:30 2008
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:01:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W144D01D9A5C46F6A949980C8F80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <169193.13480.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Before you confuse yourself with the scope, I would just do some work with your trusty multimeter.  Even better if you have more than one as you can monitor multiple voltages at once.  

Clip it up to measure the +ve supply voltage (as close to the main op-amps as possible).  Run the VCO and listen to it do its weird thing and see if there is any corresponding change of voltage.  There shouldn't be.  Then the same for the -ve supply voltage.  Then the CV where it enters the board.  Then the CV after the summing op-amp.  Then the voltage where the emitters of the transistor pair meet.  At all these points there should be a stable DC voltage (when the VCO is emitting a stable pitch).  

Then with the transistor pair (lm394) and the integrator op-amp (ca3140) and the comparator (lm311), check the voltage at the power supply and ground connected pins.  Put the probe actually on the IC pin to confirm that the voltage the chip is seeing is the same as you measure elsewhere on the board.

If you still haven't found the problem you can always go back and check these points with the scope later to see if there is any spurious AC.  But a digital multimeter is actually better for seeing small and slow voltage changes which might be the case here.

It may be something as simple as a ground connection you forgot to solder or an electrolytic cap soldered in the wrong way round.  So double check power supply related connections and all the solder joints around the log converter, integrator and comparator area.

Good luck,
Nicolas


--- On Thu, 11/12/08, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
> To: kingravine at comcast.net, "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Received: Thursday, 11 December, 2008, 6:16 PM
> thanks for the great advice
> 
> this might be a good time to get more used to my scope
> 
> let me ask...i am still VERY new at using my scope.
> 
> what am i looking for ideally on the power rails? and what
> sort of settings are good for this?
> 
> in the last year i have been so busy that my scope hasnt
> seen nearly as much use as i would like and 
> i am still a bit unsure of it at times
> 
> thanks
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
> 
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: KingRavine at comcast.net
> > To: subjectivity at hotmail.com;
> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
> > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:57:20 -0500
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Dan Snazelle" 
> > To: "sdiy" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:11 PM
> > Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
> > 
> > 
> >>
> >> one of my vco's, a CGS (ken stone) vco, which
> is being run off a +/- 
> >> 12volt supply and has a tempco in place, lately
> has been exhibiting a LOT 
> >> of instability. This started a few months ago and
> it sounds like there is 
> >> a gremlin inside of it that is messing with its
> stability.
> >>
> >> i am all for organic VCO's but this is too
> much. The note you are playing 
> >> almost always starts dipping in pitch after a few
> seconds.
> >>
> >> it's not that it isnt IN TUNE with itself, it
> is, and the last time I 
> >> checked i think i was getting around4 ot 5 octaves
> of tracking.
> >>
> >> The issue is more about WARBLE. the notes droop
> and have odd amounts of 
> >> vibrato added as i hold a note.
> >>
> >> so..my question is...what could cause a healthy
> VCO to start sounding like 
> >> it's dying?
> >>
> >>
> >> I have about 5 or 6 other modules running off the
> same PSU and none of 
> >> those modules are showing any of the same
> problems.
> >>
> >> Could it be
> >>
> >> Bad caps?
> >> Ripple?
> >> (the PSU is rated for at least .7 amps)
> >> Or something I cant even fathom?
> >>
> >> Up till this point, i had been very happy with
> this VCO and found it very 
> >> flexible.
> >> But now that i cant hold a note for too long
> without it dipping in 
> >> frequency, it doesnt work too well with my other
> VCO.
> >>
> >>
> >> ANY advice appreciated!
> >>
> >> thanks
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Dan,
> > 
> > I'd start simple:
> > 
> > jack is dirty / corroded?
> > Loose wire to the CV jack / tuning controls?
> > Bad tuning pot?
> > 
> > Use a voltmeter or scope on the CV summer and see
> what's happening. 
> > Also, look at the power rails with a scope
> > 
> > I'd also try disconnecting every other module from
> the power supply to see 
> > if the problem goes away.
> > 
> > Dave Magnuson 
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu Dec 11 09:15:12 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:15:12 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] AC (not DC) 14 to 18v plugpacks in Europe?
In-Reply-To: <14872DE8-0EC3-4795-81DB-D1E13D0ACC28@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <9558032217824D489D2961E22EE3246C@ice9>

If anyone knows a source of plugpacks in Europe - 
anywhere from 14 AC output to 18V AC, current 200mA or more, 
and with a barrel plug with 2.1mm inner conductor, I would be 
very grateful, as someone with one of my filters needs one.

Thanks, paul perry (Frostwave) Melbourne Australia



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Thu Dec 11 09:37:38 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:37:38 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] cool modulations (was live vco)
Message-ID: <17915.81.58.240.234.1228984658.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


Dan Snazelle schreef:
>
> in reference to Barry's comment
>
> could someone explain how we might go about adding:
>
>  supply noise modulation
> inputs -

I am guessing that the jitter in a Moog VCO is mostly due to noisy/ripply
variation of the sawtooth reset threshold. In the ASM-2 VCO I'd connect a
"jitter input" with a big resistor and a coupling capacitor to pin 3 of
U102.

See http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/vco/vco1-cco-asm2-cct.pdf

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com  Thu Dec 11 09:53:25 2008
From: Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:53:25 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] AC (not DC) 14 to 18v plugpacks in Europe?
In-Reply-To: <9558032217824D489D2961E22EE3246C@ice9>
References: <14872DE8-0EC3-4795-81DB-D1E13D0ACC28@ece.gatech.edu>
	<9558032217824D489D2961E22EE3246C@ice9>
Message-ID: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DED5@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>

Hi,

> If anyone knows a source of plugpacks in Europe -
> anywhere from 14 AC output to 18V AC, current 200mA or more,
> and with a barrel plug with 2.1mm inner conductor, I would be
> very grateful, as someone with one of my filters needs one.

UK Farnell part code 4626126 (if they're in the main part of Europe)
would've done if it was still stocked (the part code isn't found on the
German web site) - do you know which part of Europe they're in?

All the ones on the German web site appeared to be DC between those
voltages (12VAC and 24VAC seemed to be available) - however, I don't
speak German, so I may not have been looking in the right place.

If they're in the UK, then
http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/ac-1550/adaptor-15vac-500ma/dp/1176241
looks like it'll do the job (or they could get an UK-Europe adapter).

http://uk.farnell.com/unbranded/mc150a050u-d/adaptor-euro-15vac-500ma/dp
/4626126 for the unstocked item.
-- 
Jason Tribbeck



From barryklein at cox.net  Thu Dec 11 11:05:21 2008
From: barryklein at cox.net (Barry Klein)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:05:21 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] cool modulations (was live vco)
References: <984914F62B4E48A3A970C5DCBED9C544@jhsilent><d384bef90812101530x7e9062c3nc2d5066af80a4be3@mail.gmail.com>
	<6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE690@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
	<BAY144-W4B6220F2EF66CEEE0B8B2C8F80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EBB2308ADD3945FC803C33FF8337348F@DAD>

Hi Dan,
I was kind of being tongue in cheek....  There were discussions like this in 
this list or another where the poor supply regulation and perhaps noise was 
suggested as a contributor to the "goodness" of the oscillator sound.   I am 
mainly thinking or questioning if the effects are isolated to the oscillator 
or more of a complete system result - where the whole signal chain is 
necessary.  Early synth circuits were much more discrete in design and could 
be more sensitive/reactant to other circuits in the system and variances in 
the supplies attached to them. I am not so sure I am reading much about how 
people perceive one vco vs another - I bet most are comparing one system to 
another.  Amplifying supply noise etc. if there is any would probably create 
oscillations/instability to whatever it is added to.  Usually a bad thing. 
Our "best" approaches to VCO's have had design features to eliminate these 
aspects.
As things got more and more perfect they sounded more and more blah.  At 
least that seems the perception and general consensus.

To try and answer your question - try adding small inductors or very low 
value resistors (~.1 ohm) to the supply paths (where??)and use op amps to 
differentially sense the voltage drop across them.  Then use this directly 
and/or pass through a fullwave rectifier and filter circuit as a modulation 
voltage sources.  (envelope follower like on page 81 of my book).

Barry

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Snazelle" <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
To: <barry.l.klein at wdc.com>; "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:23 PM
Subject: [sdiy] cool modulations (was live vco)


>
> in reference to Barry's comment
>
> could someone explain how we might go about adding:
>
> supply noise modulation
> inputs -
> "soft" modulations like ripple amplification, 60Hz modulation, and soft 
> sync variations
>
> is this actually adding noise to the POWER supply???
>
> thanks
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
>
>
>
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009 ?
>> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:38:15 -0800
>> From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Obvious question:
>> Has someone tried replacing the Moog VCO design
>> with one of "our" alternatives - in the same Moog system?
>> I guess if you have a nice Moog modular
>> you could give it a go...
>> Sound "yucky"?
>> Then try "messing up" the VCO by adding supply noise modulation
>> inputs - "soft" modulations like ripple amplification, 60Hz modulation, 
>> and
>> soft sync variations...
>> Seems like the best way to get a match and an understanding...
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From julian at port23.co.uk  Thu Dec 11 12:06:31 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:06:31 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] possible cnc service (was: slider/fader slot cutting
	techniques)
References: <742139.46585.qm@web26203.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B81C05B86C2C4112937F5610324B32D0@legba>

>>Incidentally, i too will have to make a *lot* of slider-holes in the near future, and i also do not have access to a mill.

In the 'near future' my cnc router will be complete : )  Well, its actually virtually complete now, but im just sorting out where to 
put it (its not exactly small).

Work area of 700mm x 300mm (a 3u 19" pannel is 483mm x 132.5mm)

Anyhow, i mention it as i plan to offer a service akin to shaeffers (but hopefully better value) to this list etc.

Oh, the machine has been built to do engraving, milling, isolation routing (small volume mechanical pcb production) etc. as well.

Im hoping to be running on my own pannels before the end of the month, and possibly offereing to to other peoples next year.

Julian

(england/uk) 



From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Thu Dec 11 12:23:57 2008
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:23:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] possible cnc service (was: slider/fader slot
	cutting	techniques)
In-Reply-To: <B81C05B86C2C4112937F5610324B32D0@legba>
Message-ID: <OFA5F24E39.D20BC768-ONC125751C.003E77E7-C125751C.003E4F64@jeppesen.com>

hello julian,

sounds very promising. what file formats will you accept?

cheers,
matthias
___
www.modular.fonik.de


synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 12/11/2008 12:06:31 PM:
> 
> In the 'near future' my cnc router will be complete : )  Well, its 
> actually virtually complete now, but im just sorting out where to 
> put it (its not exactly small).
> 
> Work area of 700mm x 300mm (a 3u 19" pannel is 483mm x 132.5mm)
> 
> Anyhow, i mention it as i plan to offer a service akin to shaeffers 
> (but hopefully better value) to this list etc.
> 
> Oh, the machine has been built to do engraving, milling, isolation 
> routing (small volume mechanical pcb production) etc. as well.
> 
> Im hoping to be running on my own pannels before the end of the 
> month, and possibly offereing to to other peoples next year.
> 
> Julian
> 
> (england/uk) 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From julian at port23.co.uk  Thu Dec 11 12:54:02 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:54:02 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] possible cnc service (was: slider/fader
	slotcutting	techniques)
References: <OFA5F24E39.D20BC768-ONC125751C.003E77E7-C125751C.003E4F64@jeppesen.com>
Message-ID: <3478F37DA7984064A3FED0E71100BA1C@legba>


>>sounds very promising. what file formats will you accept?

The machine itself runs off g-code (just a long string of positioning co-ordinates), but, in real terms, any format that can be 
converted to g-code would be acceptable.

This includes most vector formats (.dxf .fpd etc), and, with work, g-code can even be generated from single colour graphics files.

For pcb production, ill initially be working with eagel files.  Double sided pcbs are quite possible, however, there is a limit on 
the trace width thats reliably achievable when milling.  This will probably decrease with as my skill level increases though! : )

I have three spindles (cutting heads) for the machine - a high wattage unit routing/drilling front panels, a floating head unit for 
engraving front panels/pcbs, and a very low run-out spindle for precision drilling of pcbs.

Ive built the machine primarily for my own use, however, itll be such a useful object that it would certainly be a shame for it to 
be lying idle!

Thanks, Julian





From Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com  Thu Dec 11 13:04:20 2008
From: Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:04:20 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] possible cnc service (was: slider/fader slot
	cuttingtechniques)
In-Reply-To: <B81C05B86C2C4112937F5610324B32D0@legba>
References: <742139.46585.qm@web26203.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<B81C05B86C2C4112937F5610324B32D0@legba>
Message-ID: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5DF39@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>

Hi,

> In the 'near future' my cnc router will be complete : )  Well, its
actually
> virtually complete now, but im just sorting out where to
> put it (its not exactly small).

Funnily enough, I'm doing the same.

Although I think my definition of "not exactly small" is a little
different to mine.

The one I'm making is 2.5x2x1.8m in size (gives about a 1.8x1.8x1.6m
cutting size), and is designed to make moulds for cars. Unfortunately, I
have no space at home for it, so it's in a workshop about 1 1/2 hours'
drive away.
-- 
Jason Tribbeck



From derek at umatic.nl  Thu Dec 11 15:20:28 2008
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:20:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] AC (not DC) 14 to 18v plugpacks in Europe?
In-Reply-To: <9558032217824D489D2961E22EE3246C@ice9>
References: <9558032217824D489D2961E22EE3246C@ice9>
Message-ID: <494121AC.7000502@umatic.nl>

Conrad in Germany should have this.

http://www.conrad.de

STECKERNETZGER?T 18VAC/36W
2000 mA
Artikel-Nr.: 511363 - 62
11,30 EUR


STECKERNETZGER?T 14 VAC/7W
500 mA
Artikel-Nr.: 510003 - 62
5,30 EUR

D.

Paul Perry wrote:
> If anyone knows a source of plugpacks in Europe - 
> anywhere from 14 AC output to 18V AC, current 200mA or more, 
> and with a barrel plug with 2.1mm inner conductor, I would be 
> very grateful, as someone with one of my filters needs one.
> 
> Thanks, paul perry (Frostwave) Melbourne Australia


-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 45:
"Disciplined self-indulgence"


From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Dec 11 15:59:52 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:59:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
Message-ID: <200812111559.mBBFxqsr006732@linux7.lan>

Jim Patchell <patchell at cox.net> wrote:
>I have been doing digital design since about 1975...using FPGAs is just 
>another phase of doing the same thing...instead of using 74xxx 
>logic...now I write in verilog.  There are a lot of books on Amazon.com 
>that cover this subject...although, I wouldn't really know which one 
>would be the best to begin with.
>
>And FPGA synths are a lot of fun...and there are more ways to skin this 
>cat than you can shake a leg at...

That's no exageration.  Ditto on the "fun" part.  If you want to get a taste of what
Verilog looks like, try this tutorial:

http://www.asic-world.com/verilog/veritut.html

It's last update was in December of 2008, so the maintainer is active.  There are LOADS
of simple examples.

After reading this tutorial, I was able to get some Hello World design projects
working.  I will admit that I am also a software developer from way back.  With some
study, practice and help from kind folks here and on a couple other forums, I've been
able to design MIDI synthesizers.  I also found very good supplemental information in
other tutorials and PDF papers I found on the web.  If you're into USENET, good sources
of information can be found on comp.arch.fpga and comp.lang.verilog.

Basic digital design knowledge is definately a good thing to have.  When I work in
Verilog, I find myself thinking in terms of registers (flipflops or RAM), OR gates, AND
gates, multiplexors, etc. just as if I were going to solder up some CD4xxx stuff. 
Verilog is used to describe how these little logic bits (I call it Logic Lego) are
connected together to make a working system.

>-Jim
>
>HL-SDK Synths wrote:
>> I'm interested as well, I have a question though, where did you learn 
>> all of this FPGA ...stuff? I've looked around on the web and I'm no 
>> computer science guy. Is it all hidden in the textbooks? I think FPGA 
>> synths are crazy cool!
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Jim Patchell <patchell at cox.net 
>> <mailto:patchell at cox.net>> wrote:
>> 
>>     Hope y'all aren't getting tired of these progress reports.
>> 
>>     But it looks like I have got the basics of the four pole filter
>>     working (at least in the simulator).  It is going to take a bit more
>>     testing to verify that all of the data is going where and when it is
>>     supposed to...
>> 
>>     The filter has a four clock pipe delay through it...i.e. it takes
>>     four clock cycles to complete one sample...but since it is
>>     pipelined...it only takes 512 clocks to complete all 512 filters...
>> 
>>     One of the things I need to verify yet is that the resonance control
>>     works as it should.
>> 
>>     Now, also to give you an idea of exactly what I am doing, this is
>>     basically the same kind of filter you would make with an
>>     SSM2040...without, unfortunately, the non-linear distortion that is
>>     inherent in the SSM2040.  I am not sure if I will be able to add a
>>     non-linearity in the filter loop or not.  That may be some future
>>     experiment.
>> 
>>     Anyway...it is sure looking promising.
>> 
>>     -Jim
>>     ----------------------------------------------
>>     Visit http://www.noniandjim.com <http://www.noniandjim.com/>
>>     SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
>>     ----------------------------------------------
>> 
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Synth-diy mailing list
>>     Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl <mailto:Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>     http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
>> 
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------
>Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
>SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
>----------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 11 16:09:20 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:09:20 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
In-Reply-To: <169193.13480.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY144-W144D01D9A5C46F6A949980C8F80@phx.gbl>
	<169193.13480.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W485EF388DB203AA8CADBBDC8F80@phx.gbl>


after a long nights work i think the problem is WAY better.

it was a lot of things and it still isnt perfect but....

earthing properly between my two modular cabinets helped a lot. they werent earthed together.

(one cabinet is wood so the PSU is really only earthed to the panel in some places while the top cabinet (separate PSU) is a metal case.


anyhow...thanks to everyone's input i got it sounding great!

i am also wondering how much the temp change (it does get cold in this room at night) is effecting the circuit. MAYBE the circuit (EVEN PSU) NEEDS TIME TO WARM UP??

JUST WANTED TO SAY THANKS!

if all goes well RINGO SNAZELLE is set to enter our world on sunday!



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 




> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:01:30 -0800
> From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> 
> Before you confuse yourself with the scope, I would just do some work with your trusty multimeter.  Even better if you have more than one as you can monitor multiple voltages at once.  
> 
> Clip it up to measure the +ve supply voltage (as close to the main op-amps as possible).  Run the VCO and listen to it do its weird thing and see if there is any corresponding change of voltage.  There shouldn't be.  Then the same for the -ve supply voltage.  Then the CV where it enters the board.  Then the CV after the summing op-amp.  Then the voltage where the emitters of the transistor pair meet.  At all these points there should be a stable DC voltage (when the VCO is emitting a stable pitch).  
> 
> Then with the transistor pair (lm394) and the integrator op-amp (ca3140) and the comparator (lm311), check the voltage at the power supply and ground connected pins.  Put the probe actually on the IC pin to confirm that the voltage the chip is seeing is the same as you measure elsewhere on the board.
> 
> If you still haven't found the problem you can always go back and check these points with the scope later to see if there is any spurious AC.  But a digital multimeter is actually better for seeing small and slow voltage changes which might be the case here.
> 
> It may be something as simple as a ground connection you forgot to solder or an electrolytic cap soldered in the wrong way round.  So double check power supply related connections and all the solder joints around the log converter, integrator and comparator area.
> 
> Good luck,
> Nicolas
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 11/12/08, Dan Snazelle  wrote:
> 
>> From: Dan Snazelle 
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
>> To: kingravine at comcast.net, "sdiy" 
>> Received: Thursday, 11 December, 2008, 6:16 PM
>> thanks for the great advice
>> 
>> this might be a good time to get more used to my scope
>> 
>> let me ask...i am still VERY new at using my scope.
>> 
>> what am i looking for ideally on the power rails? and what
>> sort of settings are good for this?
>> 
>> in the last year i have been so busy that my scope hasnt
>> seen nearly as much use as i would like and 
>> i am still a bit unsure of it at times
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------
>> check out various dan music at:
>> 
>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: KingRavine at comcast.net
>>> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com;
>> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
>>> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:57:20 -0500
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Dan Snazelle" 
>>> To: "sdiy" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:11 PM
>>> Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>
>>>> one of my vco's, a CGS (ken stone) vco, which
>> is being run off a +/- 
>>>> 12volt supply and has a tempco in place, lately
>> has been exhibiting a LOT 
>>>> of instability. This started a few months ago and
>> it sounds like there is 
>>>> a gremlin inside of it that is messing with its
>> stability.
>>>>
>>>> i am all for organic VCO's but this is too
>> much. The note you are playing 
>>>> almost always starts dipping in pitch after a few
>> seconds.
>>>>
>>>> it's not that it isnt IN TUNE with itself, it
>> is, and the last time I 
>>>> checked i think i was getting around4 ot 5 octaves
>> of tracking.
>>>>
>>>> The issue is more about WARBLE. the notes droop
>> and have odd amounts of 
>>>> vibrato added as i hold a note.
>>>>
>>>> so..my question is...what could cause a healthy
>> VCO to start sounding like 
>>>> it's dying?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have about 5 or 6 other modules running off the
>> same PSU and none of 
>>>> those modules are showing any of the same
>> problems.
>>>>
>>>> Could it be
>>>>
>>>> Bad caps?
>>>> Ripple?
>>>> (the PSU is rated for at least .7 amps)
>>>> Or something I cant even fathom?
>>>>
>>>> Up till this point, i had been very happy with
>> this VCO and found it very 
>>>> flexible.
>>>> But now that i cant hold a note for too long
>> without it dipping in 
>>>> frequency, it doesnt work too well with my other
>> VCO.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ANY advice appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Dan,
>>> 
>>> I'd start simple:
>>> 
>>> jack is dirty / corroded?
>>> Loose wire to the CV jack / tuning controls?
>>> Bad tuning pot?
>>> 
>>> Use a voltmeter or scope on the CV summer and see
>> what's happening. 
>>> Also, look at the power rails with a scope
>>> 
>>> I'd also try disconnecting every other module from
>> the power supply to see 
>>> if the problem goes away.
>>> 
>>> Dave Magnuson 
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
>       Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Dec 11 17:10:05 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:10:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digital 4 pole filter in an FPGA
Message-ID: <200812111710.mBBHA5Eh017998@linux7.lan>

"HL-SDK Synths" <syntroniks at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Now its interesting that you mention verilog since this one intro to digital
>systems book I have for a class next semester almost religiously praises
>VHDL and altera's AHDL. I suppose one of these days I'm going to have to
>shell out some $$ and get a fpga board.

http://www.em.avnet.com/evk/home/0,1707,RID%253D0%2526CID%253D46501%2526CCD%253DUSA%2526SID%253D32214%2526DID%253DDF2%2526LID%253D32232%2526PRT%253D0%2526PVW%253D%2526BID%253DDF2%2526CTP%253DEVK,00.html

Watch wrap, this is a 400K gate Xilinx Spartan-3A board from Avnet for $39.00.  Not a lot
of cash.  No DAC though, but when I connected a DAC to it (Cirrus CS4344 24 bit stereo), I
was able to put an 8 voice physical model polysynth in it.

My understanding is that VHDL and Verilog can describe the same hardware, just with
different syntax.  As a C programmer, I am very comfortable with Verilog syntax.

>
>Also, I checked out that DK synergy briefly, it would be great to get my
>hands on one of them!
>
>On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net>wrote:
>
>> Jim Patchell <patchell at cox.net> wrote:
>> >I have been doing digital design since about 1975...using FPGAs is just
>> >another phase of doing the same thing...instead of using 74xxx
>> >logic...now I write in verilog.  There are a lot of books on Amazon.com
>> >that cover this subject...although, I wouldn't really know which one
>> >would be the best to begin with.
>> >
>> >And FPGA synths are a lot of fun...and there are more ways to skin this
>> >cat than you can shake a leg at...
>>
>> That's no exageration.  Ditto on the "fun" part.  If you want to get a
>> taste of what
>> Verilog looks like, try this tutorial:
>>
>> http://www.asic-world.com/verilog/veritut.html
>>
>> It's last update was in December of 2008, so the maintainer is active.
>>  There are LOADS
>> of simple examples.
>>
>> After reading this tutorial, I was able to get some Hello World design
>> projects
>> working.  I will admit that I am also a software developer from way back.
>>  With some
>> study, practice and help from kind folks here and on a couple other forums,
>> I've been
>> able to design MIDI synthesizers.  I also found very good supplemental
>> information in
>> other tutorials and PDF papers I found on the web.  If you're into USENET,
>> good sources
>> of information can be found on comp.arch.fpga and comp.lang.verilog.
>>
>> Basic digital design knowledge is definately a good thing to have.  When I
>> work in
>> Verilog, I find myself thinking in terms of registers (flipflops or RAM),
>> OR gates, AND
>> gates, multiplexors, etc. just as if I were going to solder up some CD4xxx
>> stuff.
>> Verilog is used to describe how these little logic bits (I call it Logic
>> Lego) are
>> connected together to make a working system.
>>
>> >-Jim
>> >
>> >HL-SDK Synths wrote:
>> >> I'm interested as well, I have a question though, where did you learn
>> >> all of this FPGA ...stuff? I've looked around on the web and I'm no
>> >> computer science guy. Is it all hidden in the textbooks? I think FPGA
>> >> synths are crazy cool!
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Jim Patchell <patchell at cox.net
>> >> <mailto:patchell at cox.net>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>     Hope y'all aren't getting tired of these progress reports.
>> >>
>> >>     But it looks like I have got the basics of the four pole filter
>> >>     working (at least in the simulator).  It is going to take a bit more
>> >>     testing to verify that all of the data is going where and when it is
>> >>     supposed to...
>> >>
>> >>     The filter has a four clock pipe delay through it...i.e. it takes
>> >>     four clock cycles to complete one sample...but since it is
>> >>     pipelined...it only takes 512 clocks to complete all 512 filters...
>> >>
>> >>     One of the things I need to verify yet is that the resonance control
>> >>     works as it should.
>> >>
>> >>     Now, also to give you an idea of exactly what I am doing, this is
>> >>     basically the same kind of filter you would make with an
>> >>     SSM2040...without, unfortunately, the non-linear distortion that is
>> >>     inherent in the SSM2040.  I am not sure if I will be able to add a
>> >>     non-linearity in the filter loop or not.  That may be some future
>> >>     experiment.
>> >>
>> >>     Anyway...it is sure looking promising.
>> >>
>> >>     -Jim
>> >>     ----------------------------------------------
>> >>     Visit http://www.noniandjim.com <http://www.noniandjim.com/>
>> >>     SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
>> >>     ----------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>     _______________________________________________
>> >>     Synth-diy mailing list
>> >>     Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl <mailto:Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> >>     http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >--
>> >----------------------------------------------
>> >Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
>> >SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
>> >----------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Synth-diy mailing list
>> >Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> >http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >
>>
>> -- ScottG
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
>> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>  Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From KingRavine at comcast.net  Thu Dec 11 18:08:09 2008
From: KingRavine at comcast.net (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:08:09 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
References: <BAY144-W144D01D9A5C46F6A949980C8F80@phx.gbl><169193.13480.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<BAY144-W485EF388DB203AA8CADBBDC8F80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <ECE1432C84D9424BA1D95DFB6B24A003@HypoLuxa>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Snazelle" <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
To: <nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au>; "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive


>
> after a long nights work i think the problem is WAY better.
>
> it was a lot of things and it still isnt perfect but....
>
> earthing properly between my two modular cabinets helped a lot. they 
> werent earthed together.
>
> (one cabinet is wood so the PSU is really only earthed to the panel in 
> some places while the top cabinet (separate PSU) is a metal case.
>
>
> anyhow...thanks to everyone's input i got it sounding great!
>
> i am also wondering how much the temp change (it does get cold in this 
> room at night) is effecting the circuit. MAYBE the circuit (EVEN PSU) 
> NEEDS TIME TO WARM UP??
>
> JUST WANTED TO SAY THANKS!
>
> if all goes well RINGO SNAZELLE is set to enter our world on sunday!
>
>
>

Hi Dan,

I've never heard of a PSU needing to warm up.   VCOs, however, sometimes do. 
Do you have a tempco resistor in your circuit?

I have some heated expo VCOs (EFM VCO4D) and they take about 5 minutes to 
warm up and stabilize. A drastic change in room temperature will make them 
drift a few cents.  My other temp compensated VCOs stabilize very quickly 
and drift less.

It's pretty funny to listen to the raw wave from the heated-expo VCOs.   The 
pitch keeps rising as the transistor array heats up.   It probably sweeps 5 
octaves from "cold" to "warm"

A totally uncompensated VCO will not have the long warm up time, but the 
pitch will drift much more with fluctuations in the ambient temp.

Of course, you also have to consider the PSU location in all of this.    If 
your PSU dumps heat into the VCO's "air space" it will cause things to drift 
as well.

Congrats on the (future) little guy!

Dave Magnuson




From KingRavine at comcast.net  Thu Dec 11 18:14:51 2008
From: KingRavine at comcast.net (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:14:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
References: <BAY144-W23A900A3B595E5FDBD94B9C8FB0@phx.gbl>
	<FC5D6B80D87B466EAFB510B3E8A13FDE@HypoLuxa>
	<BAY144-W144D01D9A5C46F6A949980C8F80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9AC3EE2364394673B3A0F8EB6A518E69@HypoLuxa>

Hi Dan,

If you're using the scope on the power rails, you want to see an absolutely 
flat line.  Any twitching, modulation, glitches, etc will effect the VCO 
pitch.

You'll want to try fairly high magnification and a variety of sweep times. 
Remember that your voltage rails might be modulationg slowly (from an LFO's 
current consumption) or quickly (a brief voltage drop during a trigger 
pulse).   This means there's no ideal sweep frequency to use (Try them 
all!).

As another list member mentioned, a voltmeter will work great for the slow 
fluctuations, and an analog meter would work fine for seeing spikes.

I wish my old analog meter didn't croak... I really miss not having one, 
they're great for things like this.

Dave Magnuson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Snazelle" <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
To: <kingravine at comcast.net>; "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:16 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive



thanks for the great advice

this might be a good time to get more used to my scope

let me ask...i am still VERY new at using my scope.

what am i looking for ideally on the power rails? and what sort of settings 
are good for this?

in the last year i have been so busy that my scope hasnt seen nearly as much 
use as i would like and
i am still a bit unsure of it at times

thanks

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle




> From: KingRavine at comcast.net
> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:57:20 -0500
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Snazelle"
> To: "sdiy"
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:11 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] my vco is TOO alive
>
>
>>
>> one of my vco's, a CGS (ken stone) vco, which is being run off a +/-
>> 12volt supply and has a tempco in place, lately has been exhibiting a LOT
>> of instability. This started a few months ago and it sounds like there is
>> a gremlin inside of it that is messing with its stability.
>>
>> i am all for organic VCO's but this is too much. The note you are playing
>> almost always starts dipping in pitch after a few seconds.
>>
>> it's not that it isnt IN TUNE with itself, it is, and the last time I
>> checked i think i was getting around4 ot 5 octaves of tracking.
>>
>> The issue is more about WARBLE. the notes droop and have odd amounts of
>> vibrato added as i hold a note.
>>
>> so..my question is...what could cause a healthy VCO to start sounding 
>> like
>> it's dying?
>>
>>
>> I have about 5 or 6 other modules running off the same PSU and none of
>> those modules are showing any of the same problems.
>>
>> Could it be
>>
>> Bad caps?
>> Ripple?
>> (the PSU is rated for at least .7 amps)
>> Or something I cant even fathom?
>>
>> Up till this point, i had been very happy with this VCO and found it very
>> flexible.
>> But now that i cant hold a note for too long without it dipping in
>> frequency, it doesnt work too well with my other VCO.
>>
>>
>> ANY advice appreciated!
>>
>> thanks
>>
>
>
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> I'd start simple:
>
> jack is dirty / corroded?
> Loose wire to the CV jack / tuning controls?
> Bad tuning pot?
>
> Use a voltmeter or scope on the CV summer and see what's happening.
> Also, look at the power rails with a scope
>
> I'd also try disconnecting every other module from the power supply to see
> if the problem goes away.
>
> Dave Magnuson
> 



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Thu Dec 11 19:17:09 2008
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:17:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Rene Schmitz's CV BBD clock circuit
Message-ID: <248034.95491.qm@web26204.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi list

I'm currently fixing a chorus in a paia string synthesizer, using Rene Schmitz CV BBD clock circuit (http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/bbd-clock.gif) and i've got a slight problem. 

Due to how the paia is built i'm powering it the standard +15V / GND instead of the said -15 / GND, now this works and all but it seems to mess up the CV control. Right now i've got to bias the two input diodes to the positive supply via 3.3K resistor to make the input work, and even then input range is really small. I'm using two circuits since the paia has a dual chorus and on one of the circuits i've gotta use a 4.7K bias resistor instead and the CV range is *really* tiny.

As a side not i should say also that i'm using switchable caps in this circuit so that i can choose to have sort of a glitchy chorus setting if i want to, replacing the two 120pF caps with 1.8nF - this only works on the first clock-circuit and that seems to be tightly interleaved with the whole bias-resistor trouble extravaganza.

Any ideas on what i'm doing wrong?

Karl


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From rainer at buchty.net  Thu Dec 11 20:43:21 2008
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:43:21 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Spartan 3 and camera memory cards
In-Reply-To: <62C9B897-5FF6-418A-9C09-8EAF29B3D0EA@cox.net>
References: <993328.8055.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<49400E4F.7010102@googlemail.com> <49401985.3020706@sonic.net>
	<001b01c95b30$dafa89e0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
	<A225C14D-326E-4447-B70E-6DA64242EF9F@asapnet.net>
	<62C9B897-5FF6-418A-9C09-8EAF29B3D0EA@cox.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812112040290.24364@archimobil>

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Eric Brombaugh wrote:

> [...] but I know that SD/SDHC FAT filesystems are available for PIC, 
> dsPIC, ARM, AVR, etc.

Regarding C implementations, be aware, though, that the quality of the 
compilation result varies greatly depending on the maturity of the 
respective compiler.

I recently made a test with so-called slim FAT implementations and the 
6809 port of GCC and was amazed to get resulting code sizes of up to 
32kB. Looking at the code, I had the impression that manual coding would 
easily result in 4 to 8 times better results (in terms of size).

Rainer


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Thu Dec 11 21:48:54 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:48:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
Message-ID: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>

Hi,

I have some thoughts about this ladder filter implementation:
http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/vcf2/vcf2-filter-asm2-cct.pdf

I have been matching transistors for this filter using a method 
described here: http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/Matching_transistors

I get the impression that CA3046 is not being made anymore, Intersil 
lists the part as inactive, and in any case Farnell doesn't have it. So 
I am considering to use the hand-matched transistors for all the pairs 
in the ladder filter. As the CA3046 specified a maximum VBE mismatch of 
5mV, using transistors matched to 1mV could actually be an improvement.

However, I'd like to keep the dissipation in the expo converter 
transistor (Tb in the schematic) as low as possible to minimize it 
heating up compared to the reference transistor Ta.

I'm a bit puzzled by R835. Its only function that I can think of is to 
limit the current into the ladder to about 2 mA. But couldn't you have 
this as well by choosing a value of ca. 5.3k for R836?

If  R835 can be removed (i.e. shorted) then by lowering the voltage on 
C808 to 0.7V (change R814 to 56R and R808 to 510R) the collector voltage 
of Tb would become around 0V, and the maximum dissipation in Tb would be 
more than halved.

I may have to look at keeping C 809 sufficiently biased.

Apart from that, I think it would not change the operation of the filter.

Any comments?

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From gil_we at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 11 23:30:57 2008
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:30:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Ticking noise from Yamaha CP60M piano
Message-ID: <725069.801.qm@web58002.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I had my CP60M electroacoustic piano regulated, and replaced 6 electrolytes caps at the output board. Once installing the unit back,
I noticed two problems which I didn't notice before:

- There will always be a ticking noise heard in the background.

- When engaging an external effect pedal (using the effect loop send/return) a very loud hiss noise will be heard...

I double checked the caps values and orientation so I'm pretty sure this could not be the source for the problem...

Can anyone think of anything else ?

You can listen to this behavior in the following audio clip that made:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/13/285304/CP60M%20sound%20problems.mp3

Thanks !


      


From gil_we at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 11 23:55:58 2008
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:55:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Ticking noise from Yamaha CP60M piano
In-Reply-To: <725069.801.qm@web58002.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <869951.3871.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

OK I just noticed that ticking noise disappears if I disconnect the MIDI cable from the the piano MIDI Out jack... could this be a ground loop ?

But how about the loud hiss noise when engaging an effect loop ?


--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Gil W. <gil_we at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Gil W. <gil_we at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [sdiy] Ticking noise from Yamaha CP60M piano
> To: "synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 12:30 AM
> I had my CP60M electroacoustic piano regulated, and replaced
> 6 electrolytes caps at the output board. Once installing the
> unit back,
> I noticed two problems which I didn't notice before:
> 
> - There will always be a ticking noise heard in the
> background.
> 
> - When engaging an external effect pedal (using the effect
> loop send/return) a very loud hiss noise will be heard...
> 
> I double checked the caps values and orientation so I'm
> pretty sure this could not be the source for the problem...
> 
> Can anyone think of anything else ?
> 
> You can listen to this behavior in the following audio clip
> that made:
> 
> http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/13/285304/CP60M%20sound%20problems.mp3
> 
> Thanks !
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      


From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Fri Dec 12 00:23:37 2008
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:23:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] NAMM
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20081209151234.0212cd68@mail.comcast.net>
References: <11827.81.58.240.234.1228820473.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>	<0C0A5E9EC4424EEC98F2A9E5D7EB5898@jhsilent>	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209112126.020fdd38@mail.comcast.net>	<788CDD930C7841D5B51956E98123BFBB@jhsilent>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081209151234.0212cd68@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000601c95be7$8b449370$a1cdba50$@net>

I apologize for the somewhat off topic question, but how does one get a
ticket to NAMM? I'd love to go and see the newest toys...

David


David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net





From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Dec 12 10:02:34 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:02:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>

Simon,

Perhaps you could use the THAT Corp matched transistors in your  
filter instead?

http://www.thatcorp.com/300-series_Matched_Transistor_Array_ICs.html

A couple of these chips would deal with the ladder quite nicely.
I've also read of people using the THAT340 matched NPN/PNP chip in  
the discrete SSM2040 designs that are around (J?rgen Haible's/ Ren?  
Schmitz).

Regards,
Tom


On 11 Dec 2008, at 20:48, Simon Brouwer wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have some thoughts about this ladder filter implementation:
> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/vcf2/vcf2-filter-asm2-cct.pdf
>
> I have been matching transistors for this filter using a method  
> described here: http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/ 
> Matching_transistors
>
> I get the impression that CA3046 is not being made anymore,  
> Intersil lists the part as inactive, and in any case Farnell  
> doesn't have it. So I am considering to use the hand-matched  
> transistors for all the pairs in the ladder filter. As the CA3046  
> specified a maximum VBE mismatch of 5mV, using transistors matched  
> to 1mV could actually be an improvement.
>
> However, I'd like to keep the dissipation in the expo converter  
> transistor (Tb in the schematic) as low as possible to minimize it  
> heating up compared to the reference transistor Ta.
>
> I'm a bit puzzled by R835. Its only function that I can think of is  
> to limit the current into the ladder to about 2 mA. But couldn't  
> you have this as well by choosing a value of ca. 5.3k for R836?
>
> If  R835 can be removed (i.e. shorted) then by lowering the voltage  
> on C808 to 0.7V (change R814 to 56R and R808 to 510R) the collector  
> voltage of Tb would become around 0V, and the maximum dissipation  
> in Tb would be more than halved.
>
> I may have to look at keeping C 809 sufficiently biased.
>
> Apart from that, I think it would not change the operation of the  
> filter.
>
> Any comments?
>
> -- 
> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>





From yves.usson at imag.fr  Fri Dec 12 10:44:00 2008
From: yves.usson at imag.fr (Yves Usson)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:44:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>

Befor going to THAT which are quite expensive, the CA3146 is the  
modern ROHS and
non-obsolete version of the CA3046. therwise with a minor redesign of  
PCB one may use
CA3083 (I am currently redesigning some of my yusynth modules with  
these) which are
non obsolete, available in ROHS and easily sourceable.

Cheers

Yves, yusynth

Le 12 d?c. 08 ? 10:02, Tom Wiltshire a ?crit :

> Simon,
>
> Perhaps you could use the THAT Corp matched transistors in your  
> filter instead?
>
> http://www.thatcorp.com/300-series_Matched_Transistor_Array_ICs.html
>
> A couple of these chips would deal with the ladder quite nicely.
> I've also read of people using the THAT340 matched NPN/PNP chip in  
> the discrete SSM2040 designs that are around (J?rgen Haible's/ Ren?  
> Schmitz).
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
>
> On 11 Dec 2008, at 20:48, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have some thoughts about this ladder filter implementation:
>> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/vcf2/vcf2-filter-asm2-cct.pdf
>>
>> I have been matching transistors for this filter using a method  
>> described here: http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/ 
>> Matching_transistors
>>
>> I get the impression that CA3046 is not being made anymore,  
>> Intersil lists the part as inactive, and in any case Farnell  
>> doesn't have it. So I am considering to use the hand-matched  
>> transistors for all the pairs in the ladder filter. As the CA3046  
>> specified a maximum VBE mismatch of 5mV, using transistors matched  
>> to 1mV could actually be an improvement.
>>
>> However, I'd like to keep the dissipation in the expo converter  
>> transistor (Tb in the schematic) as low as possible to minimize it  
>> heating up compared to the reference transistor Ta.
>>
>> I'm a bit puzzled by R835. Its only function that I can think of  
>> is to limit the current into the ladder to about 2 mA. But  
>> couldn't you have this as well by choosing a value of ca. 5.3k for  
>> R836?
>>
>> If  R835 can be removed (i.e. shorted) then by lowering the  
>> voltage on C808 to 0.7V (change R814 to 56R and R808 to 510R) the  
>> collector voltage of Tb would become around 0V, and the maximum  
>> dissipation in Tb would be more than halved.
>>
>> I may have to look at keeping C 809 sufficiently biased.
>>
>> Apart from that, I think it would not change the operation of the  
>> filter.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>> -- 
>> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



-------------------------------------------------
Yves Usson
email :       yves.usson at yusynth.net
web site :    http://yusynth.net




From peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk  Fri Dec 12 11:05:24 2008
From: peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk (Pete Swarbrick)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:05:24 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A09641D@eumail.eu.panavision.com>

I recently built a version of the Minimoog filter using THAT300s - one for the top/bottom pair and another for the diff amp. All other transistors in the ladder were unselected BC547C [based on some batch sampling I did earlier in the year and comments many of us have made on this list about modern tolerances I figured they were going to be easily close enough without all that fiddling about with tweezers and draught excluders ;<)]
It sounds superb.
I also cloned the Mini VCA using both a THAT300 and a 340 (2NPN/2PNP): - total overkill really but I had the parts at work and wanted to try it!
 
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
Sent: 12 December 2008 09:03
To: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl
Cc: Synth DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit

Simon,

Perhaps you could use the THAT Corp matched transistors in your  
filter instead?

http://www.thatcorp.com/300-series_Matched_Transistor_Array_ICs.html

A couple of these chips would deal with the ladder quite nicely.
I've also read of people using the THAT340 matched NPN/PNP chip in  
the discrete SSM2040 designs that are around (J?rgen Haible's/ Ren?  
Schmitz).

Regards,
Tom


On 11 Dec 2008, at 20:48, Simon Brouwer wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have some thoughts about this ladder filter implementation:
> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/vcf2/vcf2-filter-asm2-cct.pdf
>
> I have been matching transistors for this filter using a method  
> described here: http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/ 
> Matching_transistors
>
> I get the impression that CA3046 is not being made anymore,  
> Intersil lists the part as inactive, and in any case Farnell  
> doesn't have it. So I am considering to use the hand-matched  
> transistors for all the pairs in the ladder filter. As the CA3046  
> specified a maximum VBE mismatch of 5mV, using transistors matched  
> to 1mV could actually be an improvement.
>
> However, I'd like to keep the dissipation in the expo converter  
> transistor (Tb in the schematic) as low as possible to minimize it  
> heating up compared to the reference transistor Ta.
>
> I'm a bit puzzled by R835. Its only function that I can think of is  
> to limit the current into the ladder to about 2 mA. But couldn't  
> you have this as well by choosing a value of ca. 5.3k for R836?
>
> If  R835 can be removed (i.e. shorted) then by lowering the voltage  
> on C808 to 0.7V (change R814 to 56R and R808 to 510R) the collector  
> voltage of Tb would become around 0V, and the maximum dissipation  
> in Tb would be more than halved.
>
> I may have to look at keeping C 809 sufficiently biased.
>
> Apart from that, I think it would not change the operation of the  
> filter.
>
> Any comments?
>
> -- 
> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From chris at chrismusic.de  Fri Dec 12 11:54:46 2008
From: chris at chrismusic.de (ChristianH)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:54:46 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: looking for someone to translate a japanese error message
Message-ID: <20081212114726.6C55.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

Hello all,

sorry for the off topic.

I'm in desperate need of someone who can decode a japanese error message.
It is located at
  http://www.chrismusic.de/error.jpg

If someone can help, please reply in a private mail.

thanks
Christian



From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Fri Dec 12 13:09:12 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:09:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>
	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>
Message-ID: <20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-12-12 10:44 +0100, Yves Usson wrote:

> Befor going to THAT which are quite expensive, the CA3146 is the
> modern ROHS and non-obsolete version of the CA3046.

Thanks for the tip. Too bad none of the usual suspects carry them.
Where do you get them ?

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Fri Dec 12 14:26:59 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:26:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>
	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>
	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20081212132659.GC22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-12-12 13:09 +0100, Andre Majorel wrote:
> On 2008-12-12 10:44 +0100, Yves Usson wrote:
> 
> > Befor going to THAT which are quite expensive, the CA3146 is the
> > modern ROHS and non-obsolete version of the CA3046.
> 
> Thanks for the tip. Too bad none of the usual suspects carry them.
> Where do you get them ?

Yves replied off-list that what he got was actually CA3083 from
Farnell.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Dec 12 15:20:37 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:20:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>


On 11 Dec 2008, at 20:48, Simon Brouwer wrote:

> I get the impression that CA3046 is not being made anymore,  
> Intersil lists the part as inactive, and in any case Farnell  
> doesn't have it.

Intersil might list CA3046 as inactive, but they're still making  
HFA3046 (and a number of others), which might be a modern version of  
the part. Only available in SOIC though.

T.




From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Fri Dec 12 15:40:32 2008
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:40:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>

Yes -- Rapid carries the LM3046 (?0.58) - and yes it is SOIC

Futurlec actually still carry the CA3046 for $0.80 - I've had some from 
them before..

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
> On 11 Dec 2008, at 20:48, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>
>> I get the impression that CA3046 is not being made anymore, Intersil 
>> lists the part as inactive, and in any case Farnell doesn't have it.
>
> Intersil might list CA3046 as inactive, but they're still making 
> HFA3046 (and a number of others), which might be a modern version of 
> the part. Only available in SOIC though.
>
> T.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1835 - Release Date: 12/7/2008 4:56 PM
>
>   



From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Fri Dec 12 16:20:11 2008
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:20:11 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>

The LM3046 from National semiconductor is better than the CA3046 from
Harris/Intersil in terms of transistor matching (Vbe match).  I've carried
out a lot of tests with this chip as it's central to many of my synth
circuits.  They quote a Vbe match of 1mV or better for the LM3046 I think
and 5mV or better for the CA3046.  In the CA3046 only the diff pair is
matched to 1mV Vbe wheras the LM3046 they are all matched to 1mv Vbe.
However, in practice the LM3046 transistors are vbe matched to much better
than 1mV making them really good for all sorts of circuits for synth diyers
ready to get down and dirty with discrete designs!  RS has the SMD part for
20p in 100pcs.  George

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tom Bugs
Sent: 12 December 2008 14:41
Cc: Synth DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit

Yes -- Rapid carries the LM3046 (?0.58) - and yes it is SOIC

Futurlec actually still carry the CA3046 for $0.80 - I've had some from 
them before..

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
> On 11 Dec 2008, at 20:48, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>
>> I get the impression that CA3046 is not being made anymore, Intersil 
>> lists the part as inactive, and in any case Farnell doesn't have it.
>
> Intersil might list CA3046 as inactive, but they're still making 
> HFA3046 (and a number of others), which might be a modern version of 
> the part. Only available in SOIC though.
>
> T.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1835 - Release Date: 12/7/2008
4:56 PM
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From czvekan at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 16:23:47 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:23:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Message test
Message-ID: <10DD33D2-F34E-443D-AAB6-3753203D325D@gmail.com>

Test

Csaba


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Fri Dec 12 18:56:06 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:56:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <7470CCA2-A975-4DA6-9EEA-71375BC08B37@ece.gatech.edu>

On Dec 12, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> On 11 Dec 2008, at 20:48, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>
>> I get the impression that CA3046 is not being made anymore,  
>> Intersil lists the part as inactive, and in any case Farnell  
>> doesn't have it.
>
> Intersil might list CA3046 as inactive, but they're still making  
> HFA3046 (and a number of others), which might be a modern version of  
> the part. Only available in SOIC though.

Findchips.com shows Newark has 41 CA3046s for $1.77 and Jameco has  
12079 of them for $0.70 ($0.51 in quantities of 100).

It shows JDR Microdevices has CA3146s at 55 cents.

- Aaron


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Fri Dec 12 18:59:04 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:59:04 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk> <000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>
Message-ID: <001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>

General question: Are these arrays suitable for VCO expo circuits?  They're
certainly cheaper than super-matched pairs and quads!

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of George Hearn
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:20 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit

The LM3046 from National semiconductor is better than the CA3046 from
Harris/Intersil in terms of transistor matching (Vbe match).  I've carried
out a lot of tests with this chip as it's central to many of my synth
circuits.  They quote a Vbe match of 1mV or better for the LM3046 I think
and 5mV or better for the CA3046.  In the CA3046 only the diff pair is
matched to 1mV Vbe wheras the LM3046 they are all matched to 1mv Vbe.
However, in practice the LM3046 transistors are vbe matched to much better
than 1mV making them really good for all sorts of circuits for synth diyers
ready to get down and dirty with discrete designs!  RS has the SMD part for
20p in 100pcs.  George



From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Fri Dec 12 19:27:44 2008
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:27:44 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>
	<001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <000001c95c87$53415260$f9c3f720$@com>

I hear the can of worms opening!  Short answer IMO yes.  Modern fabrication
techniques on the LM3046 have improved the matching very much beyond the
original CA3046 and the fact that the transistors are monolithic means they
will be well thermally connected.  You can also use the spare three
transistors on the LM3046 to act as a heater and thermostat thus regulating
the temperature in the expo converter if you wish.  Where the LM3046 falls
behind super matched pairs is in the log conformance (something to do with
the emitter bulk resistance rbe though I'm shaky).  This said I would argue
that you can make very good and useable expo converters with this chip.  Log
errors will most likely be small or similar in magnitude to other non-ideal
circuit effects such as the 'reset' time in sawtooth VCO's amongst many
others.  George

-----Original Message-----
From: David G. Dixon [mailto:dixon at interchange.ubc.ca] 
Sent: 12 December 2008 17:59
To: 'George Hearn'; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit

General question: Are these arrays suitable for VCO expo circuits?  They're
certainly cheaper than super-matched pairs and quads!

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of George Hearn
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:20 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit

The LM3046 from National semiconductor is better than the CA3046 from
Harris/Intersil in terms of transistor matching (Vbe match).  I've carried
out a lot of tests with this chip as it's central to many of my synth
circuits.  They quote a Vbe match of 1mV or better for the LM3046 I think
and 5mV or better for the CA3046.  In the CA3046 only the diff pair is
matched to 1mV Vbe wheras the LM3046 they are all matched to 1mv Vbe.
However, in practice the LM3046 transistors are vbe matched to much better
than 1mV making them really good for all sorts of circuits for synth diyers
ready to get down and dirty with discrete designs!  RS has the SMD part for
20p in 100pcs.  George



From gil_we at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 12 19:31:31 2008
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:31:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Ticking noise from Yamaha CP60M piano
In-Reply-To: <A6932475-68A0-422F-B1B6-F9E8EAFD8F44@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <289698.87088.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Thanks everyone,

Well, I re-soldered all joints at the output board (where I replaced the caps) but the hiss is still there, but again, only when engaging an external effect on either of the available effect loops (A or B).

Interestingly enough, if I only plug a cord which connected the Send to the Return (no actual effect unit preset), no hiss is heard at all...

I wonder if the caps should be Audio quality caps, which might make the difference ?

Here is the schematics including the caps I replaced...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/13/285304/cp60m.pdf   (Page 22)

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/13/285304/CP60M%20caps.JPG

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/13/285304/CP60M%20PS.JPG




--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

> From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ticking noise from Yamaha CP60M piano
> To: gil_we at yahoo.com
> Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:15 AM
> Gil,
> 
> On 11 Dec 2008, at 22:55, Gil W. wrote:
> 
> > OK I just noticed that ticking noise disappears if I
> disconnect the  
> > MIDI cable from the the piano MIDI Out jack... could
> this be a  
> > ground loop ?
> 
> MIDI was optocoupled exactly for that reason - it should
> make ground  
> loops impossible. So no, unlikely.
> 
> > But how about the loud hiss noise when engaging an
> effect loop ?
> 
> Now *that* could be a ground loop! Or it could just be a
> broken  
> ground on one of the sockets too.
> 
> T.
> 
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Gil W. <gil_we at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Gil W. <gil_we at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: [sdiy] Ticking noise from Yamaha CP60M
> piano
> >> To: "synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl"
> <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >> Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 12:30 AM
> >> I had my CP60M electroacoustic piano regulated,
> and replaced
> >> 6 electrolytes caps at the output board. Once
> installing the
> >> unit back,
> >> I noticed two problems which I didn't notice
> before:
> >>
> >> - There will always be a ticking noise heard in
> the
> >> background.
> >>
> >> - When engaging an external effect pedal (using
> the effect
> >> loop send/return) a very loud hiss noise will be
> heard...
> >>
> >> I double checked the caps values and orientation
> so I'm
> >> pretty sure this could not be the source for the
> problem...
> >>
> >> Can anyone think of anything else ?
> >>
> >> You can listen to this behavior in the following
> audio clip
> >> that made:
> >>
> >>
> http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/13/285304/CP60M%20sound%
> 
> >> 20problems.mp3
> >>
> >> Thanks !
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >


      


From czvekan at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 19:37:18 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:37:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Message test
In-Reply-To: <00cf01c95c86$04423270$1102a8c0@Mariko>
References: <00cf01c95c86$04423270$1102a8c0@Mariko>
Message-ID: <B815AABC-903E-42F0-A786-EA1DBF043A4E@gmail.com>

Maybe I can reply to this Message ....test2

On Dec 12, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Adam Schabtach wrote:

> I think that your test worked. :-)
>
> --Adam
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Csaba  
>> Zvekan
>> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:24 AM
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: [sdiy] Message test
>>
>> Test
>>
>> Csaba
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>



From czvekan at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 19:45:05 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:45:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] can't send message
Message-ID: <6968919E-DF45-4D76-A144-973C3E4520D4@gmail.com>

for some strange reason I can't send this particular message that I  
wanted to send to Simon about the ladder filter question.

Test35

Csaba :(




From mverbos at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 12 20:12:23 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:12:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>
	<001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <837B3179-2DA3-4C7B-B7DE-FB4A4014BFE2@earthlink.net>

They're good enough for the Serge PCO and NTO. in that case (as well  
as many others) they're used in a transistor oven system.

Mark






On Dec 12, 2008, at 12:59 PM, David G. Dixon wrote:

> General question: Are these arrays suitable for VCO expo circuits?   
> They're
> certainly cheaper than super-matched pairs and quads!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of George Hearn
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:20 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
>
> The LM3046 from National semiconductor is better than the CA3046 from
> Harris/Intersil in terms of transistor matching (Vbe match).  I've  
> carried
> out a lot of tests with this chip as it's central to many of my synth
> circuits.  They quote a Vbe match of 1mV or better for the LM3046 I  
> think
> and 5mV or better for the CA3046.  In the CA3046 only the diff pair is
> matched to 1mV Vbe wheras the LM3046 they are all matched to 1mv Vbe.
> However, in practice the LM3046 transistors are vbe matched to much  
> better
> than 1mV making them really good for all sorts of circuits for  
> synth diyers
> ready to get down and dirty with discrete designs!  RS has the SMD  
> part for
> 20p in 100pcs.  George
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From czvekan at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 20:20:18 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:20:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] can't send message
In-Reply-To: <4942B4B3.6050909@cox.net>
References: <6968919E-DF45-4D76-A144-973C3E4520D4@gmail.com>
	<4942B4B3.6050909@cox.net>
Message-ID: <7C986184-AE81-4C32-8D0B-32EF6B495DCD@gmail.com>

looks like it doesn't like my URL links. I am on MAC Mail where I  
highlight the text and add a URL link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdWRWqVRgMw

and

http://www.csaba.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=30

let's try it like that

see if this works with this server  ... hmmm



Csaba

test 55


On Dec 12, 2008, at 8:00 PM, Eric Brombaugh wrote:

> Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>> for some strange reason I can't send this particular message that I  
>> wanted to send to Simon about the ladder filter question.
>> Test35
>
> Make sure you're not sending in HTML - I think the list server  
> blocks messages with HTML in them.
>
> Eric



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Fri Dec 12 20:27:29 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:27:29 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <837B3179-2DA3-4C7B-B7DE-FB4A4014BFE2@earthlink.net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk> <000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>
	<001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
	<837B3179-2DA3-4C7B-B7DE-FB4A4014BFE2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c95c8f$ace6b7d0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>

I'm (more or less) a complete noobie when it comes to circuit design
(although I think I'm learning fast), but I'm assuming that Mark's
"transistor oven system" is the same as George's "transistor heater and
thermostat".  This all sounds a bit excessive, but nonetheless: what sort of
currents are drawn by such systems, and what is a typical target
temperature?

Also, I don't get the impression that this is done when super-matched pairs
are used in expos, but wouldn't they be succeptible to the same temperature
effects?  After all, using a matched pair (or even an unmatched pair)
cancels out the biggest temperature effect (I_s), and the small effect (V_T)
is typically compensated (if at all) with a tempco resistor.  Why would a
general-purpose transistor array be any more susceptible to temperature
effects than a super-matched pair?  (Maybe I'm reading too much into your
responses.)  Or, does the oven/heater simply obviate the need for the
tempco?

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: mark verbos [mailto:mverbos at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:12 AM
To: David G. Dixon
Cc: 'George Hearn'; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit

They're good enough for the Serge PCO and NTO. in that case (as well  
as many others) they're used in a transistor oven system.

Mark

On Dec 12, 2008, at 12:59 PM, David G. Dixon wrote:

> General question: Are these arrays suitable for VCO expo circuits?   
> They're
> certainly cheaper than super-matched pairs and quads!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of George Hearn
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:20 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
>
> The LM3046 from National semiconductor is better than the CA3046 from
> Harris/Intersil in terms of transistor matching (Vbe match).  I've  
> carried
> out a lot of tests with this chip as it's central to many of my synth
> circuits.  They quote a Vbe match of 1mV or better for the LM3046 I  
> think
> and 5mV or better for the CA3046.  In the CA3046 only the diff pair is
> matched to 1mV Vbe wheras the LM3046 they are all matched to 1mv Vbe.
> However, in practice the LM3046 transistors are vbe matched to much  
> better
> than 1mV making them really good for all sorts of circuits for  
> synth diyers
> ready to get down and dirty with discrete designs!  RS has the SMD  
> part for
> 20p in 100pcs.  George



From czvekan at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 20:39:14 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:39:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3FAEAC8F-828B-4FA0-BE44-C91527416D47@gmail.com>

> Hi Simon,
>
> When I built a few of Yves Ussons VCO's . I have also tested the  
> version with hand matched transistors to save money. For that I used  
> a design that I saw on the Internet.  If you like to learn how that  
> gets done see my Transistor Matcher.

http://www.csaba.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=30

> Get yourself a batch of transistors and start comparing them and  
> writing the good pairs down. Don't touch them by hand, use pliers .  
> Do it in the morning. Don't open windows (draft ... temperature  
> drop) . Let them sit in the T-Matcher for at least 1 Minute and  
> compare them like in the video .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdWRWqVRgMw

> . And you will get a few pretty well matched transistors. Bag them  
> up and write the grades from let's say 1 to 10 . Like really good  
> pair is 9.5 or  even 10.
> Have some sort of a system ... you get the point.
> Sure ,we can buy super matched transistors but where would the SDIY  
> fun be there ? :)
> I also want to mention that I don't have any pitch drifts or  
> anything with that particular hand matched VCO module.  See pics at
Yves Ussons website.

http://yusynth.net/Modular/index.html

under VCO the little pictures on near the bottom of the page.

>
> Csaba
>
> PS: Eric ... ping :)
>




On Dec 11, 2008, at 9:48 PM, Simon Brouwer wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have some thoughts about this ladder filter implementation:
> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/vcf2/vcf2-filter-asm2-cct.pdf
>
> I have been matching transistors for this filter using a method  
> described here: http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/Matching_transistors
>
> I get the impression that CA3046 is not being made anymore, Intersil  
> lists the part as inactive, and in any case Farnell doesn't have it.  
> So I am considering to use the hand-matched transistors for all the  
> pairs in the ladder filter. As the CA3046 specified a maximum VBE  
> mismatch of 5mV, using transistors matched to 1mV could actually be  
> an improvement.
>
> However, I'd like to keep the dissipation in the expo converter  
> transistor (Tb in the schematic) as low as possible to minimize it  
> heating up compared to the reference transistor Ta.
>
> I'm a bit puzzled by R835. Its only function that I can think of is  
> to limit the current into the ladder to about 2 mA. But couldn't you  
> have this as well by choosing a value of ca. 5.3k for R836?
>
> If  R835 can be removed (i.e. shorted) then by lowering the voltage  
> on C808 to 0.7V (change R814 to 56R and R808 to 510R) the collector  
> voltage of Tb would become around 0V, and the maximum dissipation in  
> Tb would be more than halved.
>
> I may have to look at keeping C 809 sufficiently biased.
>
> Apart from that, I think it would not change the operation of the  
> filter.
>
> Any comments?
>
> -- 
> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From patchell at cox.net  Fri Dec 12 20:39:14 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:39:14 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>
	<001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <4942BDE2.2060307@cox.net>

Yes they can...I can get about 7 octaves at +/- 1 cent deviation.  A 
MAT04 I can get about 8 octaves.

I use the extra transistors to make a band gap temp sensor that I use to 
compensate for temperature...No heaters, no tempcos...

http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/synthmodules/100-1007.pdf


David G. Dixon wrote:
> General question: Are these arrays suitable for VCO expo circuits?  They're
> certainly cheaper than super-matched pairs and quads!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of George Hearn
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:20 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
> 
> The LM3046 from National semiconductor is better than the CA3046 from
> Harris/Intersil in terms of transistor matching (Vbe match).  I've carried
> out a lot of tests with this chip as it's central to many of my synth
> circuits.  They quote a Vbe match of 1mV or better for the LM3046 I think
> and 5mV or better for the CA3046.  In the CA3046 only the diff pair is
> matched to 1mV Vbe wheras the LM3046 they are all matched to 1mv Vbe.
> However, in practice the LM3046 transistors are vbe matched to much better
> than 1mV making them really good for all sorts of circuits for synth diyers
> ready to get down and dirty with discrete designs!  RS has the SMD part for
> 20p in 100pcs.  George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Fri Dec 12 20:54:41 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:54:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>
	<001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081212124436.020dae80@mail.comcast.net>

At 10:59 AM 12/12/2008, David G. Dixon wrote:
>General question: Are these arrays suitable for VCO expo circuits?  They're
>certainly cheaper than super-matched pairs and quads!


The best bet for NPN pairs right now is the supermatched LM394, which 
Futurlec is selling for an incredible $1.80.  I've said it before and I'll 
say it again: Everybody should stock up on these.

I've used the CA3083 in many projects.  The log conformance is *way* better 
than for the 3046, namely Re = 1.3 Ohm vs. 5.0 Ohms.  The 3046 is pretty 
far down on the list for expo converters.

Ian 



From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Fri Dec 12 21:01:54 2008
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:01:54 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <000c01c95c8f$ace6b7d0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>
	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>
	<001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
	<837B3179-2DA3-4C7B-B7DE-FB4A4014BFE2@earthlink.net>
	<000c01c95c8f$ace6b7d0$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <000101c95c94$7aed5860$70c80920$@com>

Every exponential converter based on the classic diff pair will have the
same 1/Vt dependence on temperature and this cannot really be called small.
Whether super-matched like the ssm2210 or simply well-matched like the
LM3046 they will all suffer the same problem.  The heater/thermostat method
is just one way of reducing this dependence by keeping the transistor
temperature constant.  Another method is of course to use a tempco and let
the transistor temperature vary and the tempco compensate.  If you will
'heat' the transistors a good temperature is one just above the largest
ambient temperature likely to be reached, maybe 50-60C?  George

-----Original Message-----
From: David G. Dixon [mailto:dixon at interchange.ubc.ca] 
Sent: 12 December 2008 19:27
To: 'mark verbos'
Cc: 'George Hearn'; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit

I'm (more or less) a complete noobie when it comes to circuit design
(although I think I'm learning fast), but I'm assuming that Mark's
"transistor oven system" is the same as George's "transistor heater and
thermostat".  This all sounds a bit excessive, but nonetheless: what sort of
currents are drawn by such systems, and what is a typical target
temperature?

Also, I don't get the impression that this is done when super-matched pairs
are used in expos, but wouldn't they be succeptible to the same temperature
effects?  After all, using a matched pair (or even an unmatched pair)
cancels out the biggest temperature effect (I_s), and the small effect (V_T)
is typically compensated (if at all) with a tempco resistor.  Why would a
general-purpose transistor array be any more susceptible to temperature
effects than a super-matched pair?  (Maybe I'm reading too much into your
responses.)  Or, does the oven/heater simply obviate the need for the
tempco?

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: mark verbos [mailto:mverbos at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:12 AM
To: David G. Dixon
Cc: 'George Hearn'; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit

They're good enough for the Serge PCO and NTO. in that case (as well  
as many others) they're used in a transistor oven system.

Mark

On Dec 12, 2008, at 12:59 PM, David G. Dixon wrote:

> General question: Are these arrays suitable for VCO expo circuits?   
> They're
> certainly cheaper than super-matched pairs and quads!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of George Hearn
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:20 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
>
> The LM3046 from National semiconductor is better than the CA3046 from
> Harris/Intersil in terms of transistor matching (Vbe match).  I've  
> carried
> out a lot of tests with this chip as it's central to many of my synth
> circuits.  They quote a Vbe match of 1mV or better for the LM3046 I  
> think
> and 5mV or better for the CA3046.  In the CA3046 only the diff pair is
> matched to 1mV Vbe wheras the LM3046 they are all matched to 1mv Vbe.
> However, in practice the LM3046 transistors are vbe matched to much  
> better
> than 1mV making them really good for all sorts of circuits for  
> synth diyers
> ready to get down and dirty with discrete designs!  RS has the SMD  
> part for
> 20p in 100pcs.  George



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri Dec 12 21:56:34 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:56:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
In-Reply-To: <20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>
	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>

Andre Majorel wrote:
> On 2008-12-12 10:44 +0100, Yves Usson wrote:
>
>   
>> Befor going to THAT which are quite expensive, the CA3146 is the
>> modern ROHS and non-obsolete version of the CA3046.
>>     
>
> Thanks for the tip. Too bad none of the usual suspects carry them.
> Where do you get them ?
>
>   

As I was taking a few moments to search around my usual suppliers, I 
felt there had to be a quicker way to do this sort of thing.  So a quick 
bit of coding later ...

http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php

It's kind of UK oriented, but I'm happy to add more suppliers if someone 
sends me the relevant search URL (i.e. the full search URL to which I 
can just append a search term).

Seb

P.S. The CA3046 seems quite widely available.





From djservs at comcast.net  Fri Dec 12 22:03:06 2008
From: djservs at comcast.net (Nathan M. Reeves)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:03:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] WSG enclosure
Message-ID: <F686907B-61E3-475C-8328-FD9015DC11E3@comcast.net>

ok so i ordered the kit from the MFOS website and got it the other  
day...

as this is my first module "synth" kit to assemble, what is a good  
rule of thumb for stuffing the PCB?

i assume resistors, diodes, dip sockets, then caps, transistors,  
voltage regulators, etc, etc.....

then pots, wiring and enclosure?

what are some ideas for a neat, durable enclosure?

i know there are a lot of examples on the site but i wanted to tap  
this list for ideas....

cheers!

nate



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri Dec 12 23:51:53 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:51:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digi-Mod extra optional features ..?
Message-ID: <4942EB09.2060909@burnit.co.uk>

I'm very near to finishing the layout of my 'Digi-Mod' board.  For those 
who haven't seen the previous threads, this is a generic PCB to make 
digital modules for modular synths.

The basic features are:

- dsPIC33FJ128GP708 (40 MIPS)
- High quality audio CODEC (2 channels in, 2 channels out), with 
switchable sample rate
- 4Mbit SRAM (5.6s sample time at full sample rate)
- Analog feedback loop with CV control (using THAT2162 VCAs)
- 14 CV inputs (2 to VCAs, 12 to DSP)
- 8 Analog Gate inputs
- 10 Digital I/O pins (3.3V logic levels, including 2xSPI, 1xI2C)
- MIDI In/Thru/Out
- 8Mbit EEPROM to save samples, etc.
- ICSP/ICD connection

Obviously it will be capable of many different things, but the (open 
source) software I plan to write will give the following 4 modes of 
operation:
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/Digi-Mod-Controls.html

So that's the overview.  I'm aiming for plenty of flexibility to allow 
people to come up with other interesting uses/software for it, and many 
of the parts are optional so they can be omitted if not required (e.g. 
the SRAM, VCAs, MIDI I/O, EEPROM, etc.)

Having now almost completed the PCB layout except for routing the main 
digital stuff, it's clear that there's space left for some more 
options.  I've already made the PCB small enough to fit almost all 
modular racks (it's 105mm high x 98mm deep), and I can't really shrink 
it any further because of all the I/O headers.

See all the space left ... the joys of SMD :)
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/Digi-Mod.png

So what extra options to add??  My only thoughts are an SPI multi-output 
DAC for CV outputs.  Any other ideas?  And while I'm asking .. any 
recommendations for a suitable DAC requiring minimal external components?

Here's the schematic of the whole thing so far:
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/Digi-Mod.pdf

Seb





From marr at lumin.us  Sat Dec 13 00:09:08 2008
From: marr at lumin.us (Mark Rivera)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:09:08 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] WSG enclosure
In-Reply-To: <F686907B-61E3-475C-8328-FD9015DC11E3@comcast.net>
References: <F686907B-61E3-475C-8328-FD9015DC11E3@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4942EF14.4070002@lumin.us>

> ok so i ordered the kit from the MFOS website and got it the other day...
> as this is my first module "synth" kit to assemble, what is a good rule 
> of thumb for stuffing the PCB?
> i assume resistors, diodes, dip sockets, then caps, transistors, voltage 
> regulators, etc, etc.....
> then pots, wiring and enclosure?
> what are some ideas for a neat, durable enclosure?

In general, yeah, order of stuffing goes from shortest to tallest in 
terms of height away from the pcb surface.

I used a rack panel and a photoresist pcb to make a quad. Fairly casual 
mounting of pcb. ;d

http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_close.jpg
http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_paint.jpg
http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_pcb.jpg
http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_wiring.jpg
http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_mount.jpg

The first one I did as was in a Zip drive...

http://lumin.us/msr/forums/single_wsg_open.jpg
http://lumin.us/msr/forums/single_wsg_closed.jpg

Enclosure choice and fit and finish depends on what tools you have 
available. Kids' lunchboxes (the smallest you can find) are convenient 
as they have a latch and hinge already for getting to the battery. 
Probably would use that if I ever made another one.

If you want to paint your box, be sure to sand it and then use a good 
purpose-made primer as a base coat (i.e., plastic primer or metal primer).


Mark


From marr at lumin.us  Sat Dec 13 00:30:31 2008
From: marr at lumin.us (Mark Rivera)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:30:31 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
In-Reply-To: <4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4942F417.3030408@lumin.us>

> As I was taking a few moments to search around my usual suppliers, I 
> felt there had to be a quicker way to do this sort of thing.  So a quick 
> bit of coding later ...
> 
> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php

Nice work!! Could you add "Mouser US"?

Example:
http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ca3080


Mark


From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Dec 13 00:45:08 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:45:08 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] WSG enclosure
In-Reply-To: <F686907B-61E3-475C-8328-FD9015DC11E3@comcast.net>
References: <F686907B-61E3-475C-8328-FD9015DC11E3@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <EAC74E52-BABB-49EC-A456-B52238451EAE@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi Nate,

In general leave the most sensitive and fragile parts (Semiconductors)  
until last,
start with the IC sockets and headers or terminal pins, then R's, C's  
and L's then
diodes, transistors and finally the IC's. Don't subject the  
semiconductors to any
more heating than necessary so put all of the passive parts down first.

Graham

On 12 Dec 2008, at 21:03, Nathan M. Reeves wrote:

> ok so i ordered the kit from the MFOS website and got it the other  
> day...
>
> as this is my first module "synth" kit to assemble, what is a good  
> rule of thumb for stuffing the PCB?
>
> i assume resistors, diodes, dip sockets, then caps, transistors,  
> voltage regulators, etc, etc.....
>
> then pots, wiring and enclosure?
>
> what are some ideas for a neat, durable enclosure?
>
> i know there are a lot of examples on the site but i wanted to tap  
> this list for ideas....
>
> cheers!
>
> nate




From james at ticalun.net  Sat Dec 13 00:59:22 2008
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:59:22 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
In-Reply-To: <4942F417.3030408@lumin.us>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>	<4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>
	<4942F417.3030408@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <020b01c95cb5$a7fafe90$f7f0fbb0$@net>

Fantastic.  Don't forget Allied Electronics for those of us in the US.

http://www.alliedelec.com/

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Mark Rivera
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:31 PM
To: Synth DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search

> As I was taking a few moments to search around my usual suppliers, I 
> felt there had to be a quicker way to do this sort of thing.  So a quick 
> bit of coding later ...
> 
> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php

Nice work!! Could you add "Mouser US"?

Example:
http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ca3080


Mark
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jason at redfish.net  Sat Dec 13 01:08:18 2008
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:08:18 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
In-Reply-To: <4942F417.3030408@lumin.us>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>
	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>
	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk> <4942F417.3030408@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <a0620070cc568ad5deaaf@[10.0.1.4]>

i think the Mouser entry is Mouser US. at least the prices for things 
are the same as stuff i just ordered...

changing the label might help tho!


>>As I was taking a few moments to search around my usual suppliers, 
>>I felt there had to be a quicker way to do this sort of thing.  So 
>>a quick bit of coding later ...
>>
>>http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php
>
>Nice work!! Could you add "Mouser US"?
>
>Example:
>http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ca3080
>
>
>Mark
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Sat Dec 13 01:23:40 2008
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:23:40 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] FS: gutted synths and boards
Message-ID: <855699.84614.qm@web26203.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi list

I've just got a hold of a bunch of stuff that i'm not sure whether it's junk or not. If you're interested in anything, drop me a line and we'll discuss. All things are shipped from the baltimore area.

Polysix - totally gutted, has a PSU.
KLM367 (for polysix) - the board is dead but can probably be revived, hasn't had to much corrosion damage allthough a little bit
KLM371 - missing most buttons
KLM366B - works, but one of the oscillators seems to be un-tunable, probably a bad cap or something. Got all SSMs in it.
Poly 61 - gutted, has 2 panel boards
JX3P - gutted, has pitchbend
DX7 panel - has all buttons, pitchbend etc. no screen
Keyboard assembly SUPG1435 - looks to be in good shape, no idea what synth it's for.

I can take pictures of the stuff if needed.

Karl


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Dec 13 11:46:02 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:46:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
In-Reply-To: <020b01c95cb5$a7fafe90$f7f0fbb0$@net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>	<4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>	<4942F417.3030408@lumin.us>
	<020b01c95cb5$a7fafe90$f7f0fbb0$@net>
Message-ID: <4943926A.6070404@burnit.co.uk>

I've added a UK/US switch ..
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php

Basically I've removed CPC and RS from the US and added Allied (which is 
RS in US).
It also sets the country for any sites that support it (Digikey, 
Farnell, Mouser).

Seb


James R. Coplin wrote:
> Fantastic.  Don't forget Allied Electronics for those of us in the US.
>
> http://www.alliedelec.com/
>
> James R. Coplin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Mark Rivera
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:31 PM
> To: Synth DIY
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
>
>   
>> As I was taking a few moments to search around my usual suppliers, I 
>> felt there had to be a quicker way to do this sort of thing.  So a quick 
>> bit of coding later ...
>>
>> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php
>>     
>
> Nice work!! Could you add "Mouser US"?
>
> Example:
> http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ca3080
>
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>   




From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat Dec 13 12:12:47 2008
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:12:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Rene Schmitz's CV BBD clock circuit
In-Reply-To: <248034.95491.qm@web26204.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <248034.95491.qm@web26204.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <494398AF.9080707@uni-bonn.de>

Hi Karl and all,

Karl Ekdahl schrieb:

> Due to how the paia is built i'm powering it the standard +15V / GND
> instead of the said -15 / GND, now this works and all but it seems to
> mess up the CV control. Right now i've got to bias the two input
> diodes to the positive supply via 3.3K resistor to make the input
> work, and even then input range is really small. I'm using two
> circuits since the paia has a dual chorus and on one of the circuits
> i've gotta use a 4.7K bias resistor instead and the CV range is
> *really* tiny.

You moved the voltages all up by 15V, so that you'd need 15 to 30V or so 
as a CV. One thing you could try is to reverse the diodes, and work with 
a negative CV.

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159


From goldenechos at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 13 13:01:42 2008
From: goldenechos at hotmail.com (Anthony Rolando)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 07:01:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
In-Reply-To: <4943926A.6070404@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>
	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>
	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>	<4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>
	<4942F417.3030408@lumin.us>	<020b01c95cb5$a7fafe90$f7f0fbb0$@net>
	<4943926A.6070404@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY119-W48E7E849AD97422288B50B6F60@phx.gbl>


Hey, that is nice. Perhaps Newark would be worth adding?

Thanx,

Tony

> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:46:02 +0000
> From: seb at burnit.co.uk
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
> 
> I've added a UK/US switch ..
> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php
> 
> Basically I've removed CPC and RS from the US and added Allied (which is 
> RS in US).
> It also sets the country for any sites that support it (Digikey, 
> Farnell, Mouser).
> 
> Seb
> 
> 
> James R. Coplin wrote:
>> Fantastic.  Don't forget Allied Electronics for those of us in the US.
>>
>> http://www.alliedelec.com/
>>
>> James R. Coplin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Mark Rivera
>> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:31 PM
>> To: Synth DIY
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
>>
>>   
>>> As I was taking a few moments to search around my usual suppliers, I 
>>> felt there had to be a quicker way to do this sort of thing.  So a quick 
>>> bit of coding later ...
>>>
>>> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php
>>>     
>>
>> Nice work!! Could you add "Mouser US"?
>>
>> Example:
>> http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ca3080
>>
>>
>> Mark
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008


From music.maker at gte.net  Sat Dec 13 14:46:38 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:46:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Photodiode Ladder Filter?
Message-ID: <200812131446.mBDEkcAj003165@linux7.lan>

Crazy thought I had, maybe not so crazy?  

I was researching IR photodiodes to be used in a non-synth project when I thought - what if photodiodes controlled by LEDs were used to create a diode ladder filter of some kind - is this even possible and/or has it been done?  

What I've read about photodiodes is that in photoconductive mode, they are usually reverse biased - would this present a problem in something like a filter?  

I'm not a filter giant, certainly not a ladder filter giant, I'm just asking...

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From williamjf77 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 13 15:20:30 2008
From: williamjf77 at yahoo.com (william faulkner)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:20:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] ca3280e
Message-ID: <737574.42768.qm@web63002.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

hello, my questions for the list and be patient cause i'm pretty new to this but for a 3280 the pin labeled emitter, what is it for?  I,ve used only ba6110 and ne5517 for otas but now am using 3280 cause i scored a bunch, but the previous two only had a buffer pin  is that what the emitter is?  and secondly i saw something on the linearizing diodes that they cancel out the temp drift, is that true for a vco?


      


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 13 15:41:15 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:41:15 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] WSG enclosure
In-Reply-To: <4942EF14.4070002@lumin.us>
References: <F686907B-61E3-475C-8328-FD9015DC11E3@comcast.net>
	<4942EF14.4070002@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W554A64D90763C91C62FD8CC8F60@phx.gbl>


how did you make that nice looking panel?

very cool




--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 




> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:09:08 -0600
> From: marr at lumin.us
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] WSG enclosure
> 
>> ok so i ordered the kit from the MFOS website and got it the other day...
>> as this is my first module "synth" kit to assemble, what is a good rule 
>> of thumb for stuffing the PCB?
>> i assume resistors, diodes, dip sockets, then caps, transistors, voltage 
>> regulators, etc, etc.....
>> then pots, wiring and enclosure?
>> what are some ideas for a neat, durable enclosure?
> 
> In general, yeah, order of stuffing goes from shortest to tallest in 
> terms of height away from the pcb surface.
> 
> I used a rack panel and a photoresist pcb to make a quad. Fairly casual 
> mounting of pcb. ;d
> 
> http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_close.jpg
> http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_paint.jpg
> http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_pcb.jpg
> http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_wiring.jpg
> http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_mount.jpg
> 
> The first one I did as was in a Zip drive...
> 
> http://lumin.us/msr/forums/single_wsg_open.jpg
> http://lumin.us/msr/forums/single_wsg_closed.jpg
> 
> Enclosure choice and fit and finish depends on what tools you have 
> available. Kids' lunchboxes (the smallest you can find) are convenient 
> as they have a latch and hinge already for getting to the battery. 
> Probably would use that if I ever made another one.
> 
> If you want to paint your box, be sure to sand it and then use a good 
> purpose-made primer as a base coat (i.e., plastic primer or metal primer).
> 
> 
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Dec 13 17:10:46 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:10:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
In-Reply-To: <BAY119-W48E7E849AD97422288B50B6F60@phx.gbl>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>	<4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>	<4942F417.3030408@lumin.us>	<020b01c95cb5$a7fafe90$f7f0fbb0$@net>
	<4943926A.6070404@burnit.co.uk>
	<BAY119-W48E7E849AD97422288B50B6F60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4943DE86.3000106@burnit.co.uk>

Sure, can do :)

Anthony Rolando wrote:
> Hey, that is nice. Perhaps Newark would be worth adding?
>
> Thanx,
>
> Tony
>
>   
>> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:46:02 +0000
>> From: seb at burnit.co.uk
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
>>
>> I've added a UK/US switch ..
>> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php
>>
>> Basically I've removed CPC and RS from the US and added Allied (which is 
>> RS in US).
>> It also sets the country for any sites that support it (Digikey, 
>> Farnell, Mouser).
>>
>> Seb
>>
>>
>> James R. Coplin wrote:
>>     
>>> Fantastic.  Don't forget Allied Electronics for those of us in the US.
>>>
>>> http://www.alliedelec.com/
>>>
>>> James R. Coplin
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Mark Rivera
>>> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:31 PM
>>> To: Synth DIY
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> As I was taking a few moments to search around my usual suppliers, I 
>>>> felt there had to be a quicker way to do this sort of thing.  So a quick 
>>>> bit of coding later ...
>>>>
>>>> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> Nice work!! Could you add "Mouser US"?
>>>
>>> Example:
>>> http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ca3080
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>     
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008
>
>   




From patchell at cox.net  Sat Dec 13 17:42:14 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 08:42:14 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] ca3280e
In-Reply-To: <737574.42768.qm@web63002.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <737574.42768.qm@web63002.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4943E5E6.6090001@cox.net>

Well, it doesn't have a lot of uses...but it can be used to help make a 
triangle to sine converter....

http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/synthmodulesII/200-1007.pdf

look on that schematic, on the VCO-WAVESHAPERS page, at the bottom you 
will see both halves of a CA3280 being used as a triangle to sine 
converter.  Considering the price of a CA3280 these days...that is a 
rather expensive way to do that job...although...it does do pretty 
good...(0.5% distortion).

-Jim

william faulkner wrote:
> hello, my questions for the list and be patient cause i'm pretty new to this but for a 3280 the pin labeled emitter, what is it for?  I,ve used only ba6110 and ne5517 for otas but now am using 3280 cause i scored a bunch, but the previous two only had a buffer pin  is that what the emitter is?  and secondly i saw something on the linearizing diodes that they cancel out the temp drift, is that true for a vco?
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From romeo.fahl at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 18:37:36 2008
From: romeo.fahl at gmail.com (Romeo Fahl)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 09:37:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Photodiode Ladder Filter?
In-Reply-To: <200812131446.mBDEkcAj003165@linux7.lan>
References: <200812131446.mBDEkcAj003165@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <d3a114240812130937v5c86a51bkd6f91f5a99e81253@mail.gmail.com>

Isn't the wiard Boogie basically that, using vactrols for the ladder?

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 5:46 AM, Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net> wrote:
> Crazy thought I had, maybe not so crazy?
>
> I was researching IR photodiodes to be used in a non-synth project when I thought - what if photodiodes controlled by LEDs were used to create a diode ladder filter of some kind - is this even possible and/or has it been done?
>
> What I've read about photodiodes is that in photoconductive mode, they are usually reverse biased - would this present a problem in something like a filter?
>
> I'm not a filter giant, certainly not a ladder filter giant, I'm just asking...
>
> -- ScottG
> ________________________________________________________________________
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Sat Dec 13 20:21:51 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:21:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20081212124436.020dae80@mail.comcast.net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>	<000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>	<001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081212124436.020dae80@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <49440B4F.3020608@xs4all.nl>

Ian Fritz schreef:
> At 10:59 AM 12/12/2008, David G. Dixon wrote:
>> General question: Are these arrays suitable for VCO expo circuits?  
>> They're
>> certainly cheaper than super-matched pairs and quads!
>
>
> The best bet for NPN pairs right now is the supermatched LM394, which 
> Futurlec is selling for an incredible $1.80.  I've said it before and 
> I'll say it again: Everybody should stock up on these.
An excellent bargain indeed. I wonder how long it will last.
>
> I've used the CA3083 in many projects.  The log conformance is *way* 
> better than for the 3046, namely Re = 1.3 Ohm vs. 5.0 Ohms.  The 3046 
> is pretty far down on the list for expo converters.
Thanks for the tip, and Farnell has this part as well.
(they have LM394 as well by the way, metal can, for 15.25 euro apiece...)

I think for the ladder filter I'll go with my hand matched transistors, 
glueing them together and in combination with a tempco resistor. If 
necessary (but I don't expect so) I can always replace them with a 
proper dual transistor.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Sat Dec 13 20:41:57 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:41:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Some thoughts about ladder filter circuit
In-Reply-To: <4942BDE2.2060307@cox.net>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<744744C8-798F-4DEE-9BDF-05730EE0C1D3@electricdruid.net>	<494277E0.8050404@bugbrand.co.uk>	<000001c95c6d$20a22e20$61e68a60$@com>	<001601c95c83$5341c460$dff0bd80@HeapSimLapTop>
	<4942BDE2.2060307@cox.net>
Message-ID: <49441005.6000802@xs4all.nl>

Jim Patchell schreef:
> Yes they can...I can get about 7 octaves at +/- 1 cent deviation.  A 
> MAT04 I can get about 8 octaves.
>
> I use the extra transistors to make a band gap temp sensor that I use 
> to compensate for temperature...No heaters, no tempcos...
>
> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/synthmodules/100-1007.pdf 
I had seen your schematic before. It's as close to the ideal as one 
could imagine.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From mbedtom at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 21:03:16 2008
From: mbedtom at gmail.com (Tom Farrand)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:03:16 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [motm] Bridechamber - Scott Deyo
In-Reply-To: <891F97EDDCFC4F2D9736C137A443EDB6@KDDLab05>
References: <959060.83195.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<891F97EDDCFC4F2D9736C137A443EDB6@KDDLab05>
Message-ID: <e85a944f0812131203i528d1988k4f083cab99255203@mail.gmail.com>

I will second that motion!  Took a chance on a few panels to test.
Very nicely done, first rate quality, timely service, and everything
else one would want. Will I buy again?  ABSOLUTELY!

Peace.
Tom Farrand


On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Greg James <gjames at kddlab.com> wrote:
>
> Hear ye, hear ye!
>
>
>
> Whereas  -  I've made several purchases from Mr. Scott Deyo of MOTM format panels.
>
>
>
> And whereas:  - Scott has been pleasant, prompt and professional in all such dealings.
>
>
>
> And whereas:  - All panels delivered to me have been of the highest quality.
>
>
>
> And whereas:  - Scott seems to anticipate and/or be open to sourcing panels and parts for many DIY projects.
>
>
>
> And whereas:  - Most of these projects are really, really, really cool (like Haible, Blacet, Oakley, and CGS).
>
>
>
> Therefore, Let it be known to one and all that I nominate him to be a Stooge Nouveau (meant in the best sense possible)!
>
>
>
> Cheers Scott!
>


From grichter at asapnet.net  Sat Dec 13 21:18:44 2008
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:18:44 -0600
Subject: Hard and Soft reply [sdiy] Photodiode Ladder Filter?
In-Reply-To: <d3a114240812130937v5c86a51bkd6f91f5a99e81253@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200812131446.mBDEkcAj003165@linux7.lan>
	<d3a114240812130937v5c86a51bkd6f91f5a99e81253@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9E36CE6-9AE8-4F6F-A896-C984CFDC2FBD@asapnet.net>

> Isn't the wiard Boogie basically that, using vactrols for the ladder?


This post contains both factual technical data and personal artistic  
opinion.

I can answer that: Yes the Boogie is the filter Moog would have  
shipped if Don Buchla had worked for them.

But, Vactrols are optically isolated, so no ladder is needed.

The only time you need a ladder design is when the transconductor has  
no CV rejection which transistors and diodes do not.

How to address this design problem?

Make two parallel paths of the poor performance transconductors.

Inject the signal differentially at the input (usually bottom in  
drawings). That is a positive phase on one leg and negative phase on  
the other.

Use a differential amplifier at the top to extract the differential  
signal and reject the control voltage which is equal in amplitude,  
but appears common mode, which differential amplifiers reject (CMRR).

Filters like transistor and diode ladders were designed to cost. That  
is, it was the cheapest circuit they could use that fit the design  
description. But the designers knew that as filter designs go, they  
had appreciable technical defects.

Then everybody got trained to associate the sound of cheap, low  
quality distorted noisy filter designs with synthesizers, to the  
point that when ARP came out with a clear fidelity filter, everybody  
hated it.

But if "Flashlight" was played on a high fidelity synth, it wouldn't  
be as dirty and sexy and fun. So in this case, the lack of perfection  
in the filters, perfectly suited the artistic application of sweaty  
dance floor music and getting the Foxes "shaking that thang" um, um.

More power to scientific perfection.
More power to artistic imperfection.
They both have their place on this list.

I think this list needs to clarify which side is under discussion at  
what moment.
Is the goal of the thread topic the perfection of stability from an  
objective instrument standpoint? (Hard Science)
Or is the thread topic about the subjective musical character of a  
circuit which possesses some technical flaws, but sounds cool. (Soft  
Artfulness)

If we could just work that out, these repeated squabbles would be  
greatly reduced. (IMHO)


On Dec 13, 2008, at 11:37 AM, Romeo Fahl wrote:

> I
>
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 5:46 AM, Scott Gravenhorst  
> <music.maker at gte.net> wrote:
>> Crazy thought I had, maybe not so crazy?
>>
>> I was researching IR photodiodes to be used in a non-synth project  
>> when I thought - what if photodiodes controlled by LEDs were used  
>> to create a diode ladder filter of some kind - is this even  
>> possible and/or has it been done?
>>
>> What I've read about photodiodes is that in photoconductive mode,  
>> they are usually reverse biased - would this present a problem in  
>> something like a filter?
>>
>> I'm not a filter giant, certainly not a ladder filter giant, I'm  
>> just asking...
>>
>> -- ScottG
>> _____________________________________________________________________ 
>> ___
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/ 
>> FPGA_synth/
>> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From gjames at kddlab.com  Sat Dec 13 21:37:16 2008
From: gjames at kddlab.com (Greg James)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:37:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Bridechamber - Scott Deyo
In-Reply-To: <A9E36CE6-9AE8-4F6F-A896-C984CFDC2FBD@asapnet.net>
References: <200812131446.mBDEkcAj003165@linux7.lan><d3a114240812130937v5c86a51bkd6f91f5a99e81253@mail.gmail.com>
	<A9E36CE6-9AE8-4F6F-A896-C984CFDC2FBD@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <3D352AE5549543139351F91B0F59DFED@KDDLab05>

Hear ye, hear ye!

Whereas  -  I've made several purchases from Mr. Scott Deyo of MOTM format
panels.

And whereas:  - Scott has been pleasant, prompt and professional in all such
dealings.

And whereas:  - All panels delivered to me have been of the highest quality.

And whereas:  - Scott seems to anticipate and/or be open to sourcing panels
and parts for many DIY projects.

And whereas:  - Most of these projects are really, really, really cool (like
Haible, Blacet, Oakley, and CGS).

Therefore, Let it be known to one and all that I nominate him to be a Stooge
Nouveau (meant in the best sense possible)!

Cheers Scott!



From anders.sponton at vallnet.nu  Sat Dec 13 22:21:14 2008
From: anders.sponton at vallnet.nu (Anders)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:21:14 +0100
Subject: SV: [sdiy] Bridechamber - Scott Deyo
In-Reply-To: <3D352AE5549543139351F91B0F59DFED@KDDLab05>
References: <200812131446.mBDEkcAj003165@linux7.lan><d3a114240812130937v5c86a51bkd6f91f5a99e81253@mail.gmail.com>	<A9E36CE6-9AE8-4F6F-A896-C984CFDC2FBD@asapnet.net>
	<3D352AE5549543139351F91B0F59DFED@KDDLab05>
Message-ID: <000601c95d68$be0f5e70$3a2e1b50$@sponton@vallnet.nu>

Second that!

Anders, Sweden
http://rubidium.dyndns.org/cag/


-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fr?n: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] F?r Greg James
Skickat: den 13 december 2008 21:37
Till: 'Synth DIY'
?mne: [sdiy] Bridechamber - Scott Deyo

Hear ye, hear ye!

Whereas  -  I've made several purchases from Mr. Scott Deyo of MOTM format
panels.

And whereas:  - Scott has been pleasant, prompt and professional in all such
dealings.

And whereas:  - All panels delivered to me have been of the highest quality.

And whereas:  - Scott seems to anticipate and/or be open to sourcing panels
and parts for many DIY projects.

And whereas:  - Most of these projects are really, really, really cool (like
Haible, Blacet, Oakley, and CGS).

Therefore, Let it be known to one and all that I nominate him to be a Stooge
Nouveau (meant in the best sense possible)!

Cheers Scott!

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun Dec 14 01:36:56 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:36:56 +0000
Subject: Hard and Soft reply [sdiy] Photodiode Ladder Filter?
In-Reply-To: <A9E36CE6-9AE8-4F6F-A896-C984CFDC2FBD@asapnet.net>
References: <200812131446.mBDEkcAj003165@linux7.lan>
	<d3a114240812130937v5c86a51bkd6f91f5a99e81253@mail.gmail.com>
	<A9E36CE6-9AE8-4F6F-A896-C984CFDC2FBD@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <947A8787-6067-4DFA-A101-5809AEE48A6C@electricdruid.net>


On 13 Dec 2008, at 20:18, Grant Richter wrote:

> Is the goal of the thread topic the perfection of stability from an  
> objective instrument standpoint? (Hard Science)
> Or is the thread topic about the subjective musical character of a  
> circuit which possesses some technical flaws, but sounds cool.  
> (Soft Artfulness)
>
> If we could just work that out, these repeated squabbles would be  
> greatly reduced. (IMHO)

I like it, Grant. Stuff to think about. Always good.

T.



From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Dec 14 03:27:48 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:27:48 -0700
Subject: Hard and Soft reply [sdiy] Photodiode Ladder Filter?
Message-ID: <200812140327.mBE3RmPo013865@linux7.lan>

Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:

[...]

>Well, in the case of a photodiode ladder filter, I think the case is 
>really about "what if?" and we are certainly not talking about 
>perfection but rather, will it be (scientifically) good enough and have 
>an interesting characteristic?

"What if" was exactly what was going through my head...  

I bought 10 of the IR PIN photodiodes (Fairchild QSE973) and 10 of the IR LEDs, I only
need one of each for this current (non-synth) project, so I have 9 units left over for
something else.

>There is only one way to really know: Build one and report back.

Yeah.

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sun Dec 14 04:00:11 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 04:00:11 +0100
Subject: Hard and Soft reply [sdiy] Photodiode Ladder Filter?
In-Reply-To: <A9E36CE6-9AE8-4F6F-A896-C984CFDC2FBD@asapnet.net>
References: <200812131446.mBDEkcAj003165@linux7.lan>	<d3a114240812130937v5c86a51bkd6f91f5a99e81253@mail.gmail.com>
	<A9E36CE6-9AE8-4F6F-A896-C984CFDC2FBD@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <494476BB.9010401@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Dear Grant,

Grant Richter skrev:
>> Isn't the wiard Boogie basically that, using vactrols for the ladder?
> 
> 
> This post contains both factual technical data and personal artistic 
> opinion.
> 
> I can answer that: Yes the Boogie is the filter Moog would have shipped 
> if Don Buchla had worked for them.
> 
> But, Vactrols are optically isolated, so no ladder is needed.

You can still build a ladder with them. It is a fairly simple design 
method anyway.

> The only time you need a ladder design is when the transconductor has no 
> CV rejection which transistors and diodes do not.
> 
> How to address this design problem?
> 
> Make two parallel paths of the poor performance transconductors.
> 
> Inject the signal differentially at the input (usually bottom in 
> drawings). That is a positive phase on one leg and negative phase on the 
> other.
> 
> Use a differential amplifier at the top to extract the differential 
> signal and reject the control voltage which is equal in amplitude, but 
> appears common mode, which differential amplifiers reject (CMRR).

I think many forget this finer detail.

However, even if the control-current needs to be suppressed like in the 
traditional diode/transistor setups, it is a very straightforward way of 
building a multistage thing with few components.

> Filters like transistor and diode ladders were designed to cost. That 
> is, it was the cheapest circuit they could use that fit the design 
> description. But the designers knew that as filter designs go, they had 
> appreciable technical defects.

The set of components at hand used to be far from perfect, so correcting 
for imperfections comes at the cost of more components. The arrival of 
OTAs is a minor revolution in itself, not to speak of op-amps as such.

> Then everybody got trained to associate the sound of cheap, low quality 
> distorted noisy filter designs with synthesizers, to the point that when 
> ARP came out with a clear fidelity filter, everybody hated it.
> 
> But if "Flashlight" was played on a high fidelity synth, it wouldn't be 
> as dirty and sexy and fun. So in this case, the lack of perfection in 
> the filters, perfectly suited the artistic application of sweaty dance 
> floor music and getting the Foxes "shaking that thang" um, um.

I have been saying about the same thing for ages. Many of our "classics" 
is really just different approaches to cheap enought design. Some of the 
corners cut have provided the basis for sound-scapes that artists used. 
An engineer can create the "perfect" design but it may be totally 
uninteresting since it does not have the character the artist needs.

I think there's a place for both. Dirty designs for when that is called 
for and clean designs for other uses. A modular should contain both.

> More power to scientific perfection.
> More power to artistic imperfection.
> They both have their place on this list.
> 
> I think this list needs to clarify which side is under discussion at 
> what moment.
> Is the goal of the thread topic the perfection of stability from an 
> objective instrument standpoint? (Hard Science)
> Or is the thread topic about the subjective musical character of a 
> circuit which possesses some technical flaws, but sounds cool. (Soft 
> Artfulness)
> 
> If we could just work that out, these repeated squabbles would be 
> greatly reduced. (IMHO)

Well, in the case of a photodiode ladder filter, I think the case is 
really about "what if?" and we are certainly not talking about 
perfection but rather, will it be (scientifically) good enough and have 
an interesting characteristic?

There is only one way to really know: Build one and report back.

Using vactrols is certainly not the way to get precision, but it was a 
handy way to get something useful built in the days when OTAs where not 
the way to go.

Talking about precision... one of my counters uses a LM13600 and some 
2N3906 in the interpolating core to produce 4 ps timing resolution. I 
was quite supprised to find them there... but it is really the core! ECL 
and other funky stuff surrounding it.

Cheers,
Magnus


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Sun Dec 14 04:57:47 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:57:47 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Need PCB Design with Gerbers ???
In-Reply-To: <494476BB.9010401@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <200812131446.mBDEkcAj003165@linux7.lan>	<d3a114240812130937v5c86a51bkd6f91f5a99e81253@mail.gmail.com>
	<A9E36CE6-9AE8-4F6F-A896-C984CFDC2FBD@asapnet.net>
	<494476BB.9010401@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20081214035418.M93483@wowway.com>

I find myself with some extra time on my hands... so if anyone wants
professional PCB layouts with Gerber files from their designs... contact me
offlist.  They need ~not~ be audio designs (but it would be more fun :^)

H^) harry

Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From marr at lumin.us  Sun Dec 14 09:51:05 2008
From: marr at lumin.us (Mark Rivera)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 02:51:05 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] WSG enclosure
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W554A64D90763C91C62FD8CC8F60@phx.gbl>
References: <F686907B-61E3-475C-8328-FD9015DC11E3@comcast.net>
	<4942EF14.4070002@lumin.us>
	<BAY144-W554A64D90763C91C62FD8CC8F60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4944C8F9.3030407@lumin.us>


> how did you make that nice looking panel?

>> http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_close.jpg
>> http://lumin.us/msr/forums/quad_wsg_paint.jpg

Spray paint...

Plain anodized rack panel. Apply coat of white metal primer spray. Let 
dry 30 minutes. Coat of blue spray. Some green spray through a paper 
plate stencil held 6" away from surface. Let dry long enough that paint 
isn't very sticky. A very thick coat of white primer spray through a 
paper plate stencil laying on the panel surface. Let dry while you cut 
the grass - 45 minutes?

Here's where the finishing touches are to get the effect I ended up with..

Spraying black paint 2" away at something like a scrap of wood, drip the 
black paint onto the panel from a height of a few feet. Let dry 15 
minutes. Very lightly mist with metallic silver from a few feet away 
(this only takes a few seconds).

Let dry completely.

Sand down the silver paint to reveal the undercoats and black drips 
using 800 grit or some other fine sandpaper.

Pencil and ruler to mark drill points... drill press.

Mark



From solution at netcabo.pt  Sun Dec 14 19:59:50 2008
From: solution at netcabo.pt (alf holm)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:59:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] buchla video
Message-ID: <98FCC72A-D321-47F7-AA74-669CADA935A3@netcabo.pt>

http://vimeo.com/902069


From theatomlabspt at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 23:21:50 2008
From: theatomlabspt at gmail.com (Heitor Alves)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:21:50 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] WSG enclosure
References: <F686907B-61E3-475C-8328-FD9015DC11E3@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <004d01c95e3a$5cfa9550$0201a8c0@atomlabs>

Well... about components soldering all was already said... but about the 
enclosure, you can always create your unique enclosure as i did.

http://www.atomlabs.biz/galeria/categories.php?cat_id=20

take a look and good luck building it ;) it's a really good design and sound 
generator!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan M. Reeves" <djservs at comcast.net>
To: "synth diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:03 PM
Subject: [sdiy] WSG enclosure


> ok so i ordered the kit from the MFOS website and got it the other  day...
>
> as this is my first module "synth" kit to assemble, what is a good  rule 
> of thumb for stuffing the PCB?
>
> i assume resistors, diodes, dip sockets, then caps, transistors,  voltage 
> regulators, etc, etc.....
>
> then pots, wiring and enclosure?
>
> what are some ideas for a neat, durable enclosure?
>
> i know there are a lot of examples on the site but i wanted to tap  this 
> list for ideas....
>
> cheers!
>
> nate
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Mon Dec 15 01:43:21 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:43:21 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] FS: Metasonix TM-1 Waveshaper and Ring Modulator
In-Reply-To: <200812140327.mBE3RmPo013865@linux7.lan>
References: <200812140327.mBE3RmPo013865@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <20081215003849.M31788@wowway.com>

Serial # 007

how cool is that ?

read all about it...
http://www.sonicstate.com/synth_reviews/metasonix_tm-1.cfm

Contact me offlist


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Dec 15 11:59:43 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:59:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Evolution of the vocoder?
Message-ID: <1E07D75E-6EAB-4EBB-8902-4F2D2B6C510B@electricdruid.net>

Hi All,

I've just been watching the demo videos of the Roland VP550:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx? 
ObjectId=771&ParentId=83

Quite an impressive instrument. It's obviously related to the  
standard vocoder, but they've managed to go beyond the usual vocoder  
sound.

What really bugs me about the new stuff that gets released is that I  
don't get to find out how it works until 20 years have gone by. I'd  
love to know the details of the algorithms they're using to create  
these sounds, but I don't suppose for a moment that they want to tell  
me. How's anyone supposed to keep up with the state of the art if  
they keep it all under their hat? Anyone care to speculate on what  
they've done?

Regards,
Tom




From rainer at buchty.net  Mon Dec 15 12:16:16 2008
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:16:16 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Evolution of the vocoder?
In-Reply-To: <1E07D75E-6EAB-4EBB-8902-4F2D2B6C510B@electricdruid.net>
References: <1E07D75E-6EAB-4EBB-8902-4F2D2B6C510B@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812151207000.12401@i82pc05>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> How's anyone supposed to keep up with the state of the art if they 
> keep it all under their hat? Anyone care to speculate on what they've 
> done?

You sure they keep it under their hats? I didn't do an exhaustive patent 
search on that yet, but I bet you'd find quite some information on 
uspto.gov assuming you find the right search terms (which can be a 
challenge).

Regarding older stuff, you'll e.g. find nice descriptions of Kawai's 
attempts to Fourier synthesis (read: K3) or Casio's "digital" filters 
(which to my understanding are time-discrete, but continous in value) in 
the patent database.

"roland and corporation AND vocoder" at least produces 31 rather 
music-related hits.

Rainer





From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 12:45:53 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:45:53 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Evolution of the vocoder?
In-Reply-To: <1E07D75E-6EAB-4EBB-8902-4F2D2B6C510B@electricdruid.net>
References: <1E07D75E-6EAB-4EBB-8902-4F2D2B6C510B@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812150345p23c2a886l78b75d72a126c559@mail.gmail.com>

Somebody on the Northern Sounds forum (Old Bob) did a good emulation
of Roland's technique by taking sampled male and female "AH" choir
sounds and running then through a high band count vocoder (he didn't
specify what vocoder he used).  I was told by a VP-550 owner that's
pretty much what Roland is doing.  I was skeptical at first but then
later thought, yes, they'd kind of have to do it that way so that
people with really odd or awful voices would still come out sounding
relatively decent. He pulled down his demo, but I uploaded it because
it sounds pretty damn good.  It's here:

http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/Sampled_Choir_Thru_Vocoder.mp3

I have a TC Electronics unit which is actually a pitch shifter under
midi control, so I can use it like a vocoder in that I can play midi
notes on a keyboard to specify pitches and it will pitch shift my
voice to match those notes, along with the ability to change gender
and add different types of vibrato and randomness.  But since it's
pitch shifting my voice, the sounds on it's output are going to sound
like me (or female versions of me).  I did a recent multi-track
recording of me doing playing a polyphonic piece with it here:

http://home.att.net/~elhardt4/TCHelicon_OComeAllYeFaithful.mp3

So that's how the latest technologies work.

-Elhardt


From stevenpaulcook at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Dec 15 13:52:09 2008
From: stevenpaulcook at tiscali.co.uk (Steven Cook)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:52:09 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] SN76477N ICs currently at BG Micro
Message-ID: <6F083EBE6CC44721A1FA49D7007FECDB@pc>

Hi,

Just a note from Popular Science Magazine's site - the SN76477N sound 
generator IC is available from BG Micro:

http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=12924

Seems like a bargain.

Regards,

Steven Cook.
http://www.spcplugins.com/



From Chris at crystalvision.tv  Mon Dec 15 13:54:38 2008
From: Chris at crystalvision.tv (Chris Strellis)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:54:38 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Evolution of the vocoder?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812150345p23c2a886l78b75d72a126c559@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1E07D75E-6EAB-4EBB-8902-4F2D2B6C510B@electricdruid.net>
	<d384bef90812150345p23c2a886l78b75d72a126c559@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77638F7A1E0E0A48B3E118AF250D1FC8B4A77C@crystalvision02.Crystal.local>

Not quite the info required but I've got a webpage with audio examples
of the Roland VP9000 vocal processor.

http://www.strellis.com/vp9000.shtml

It's very interesting to use.

Cheers

Chris




From richard at skydancer.com  Mon Dec 15 14:04:46 2008
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:04:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Evolution of the vocoder?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812150345p23c2a886l78b75d72a126c559@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1E07D75E-6EAB-4EBB-8902-4F2D2B6C510B@electricdruid.net>
	<d384bef90812150345p23c2a886l78b75d72a126c559@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E79493A-4B6E-4BBE-AB32-26628B01645C@skydancer.com>


On 15 Dec 2008, at 11:45, Ken Elhardt wrote:

> Somebody on the Northern Sounds forum (Old Bob) did a good emulation
> of Roland's technique by taking sampled male and female "AH" choir
> sounds and running then through a high band count vocoder (he didn't
> specify what vocoder he used).  I was told by a VP-550 owner that's
> pretty much what Roland is doing.  I was skeptical at first but then
> later thought, yes, they'd kind of have to do it that way so that
> people with really odd or awful voices would still come out sounding
> relatively decent. He pulled down his demo, but I uploaded it because
> it sounds pretty damn good.  It's here:
>
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/Sampled_Choir_Thru_Vocoder.mp3

Convolution is cheap enough now that doing it in real time is  
trivial, so some of the vocoder plug-ins, and possibly some of the  
hardware units, do Fourier-based cross-modulation with the usual  
power-of-2 'band' count, rather than trying to use bandpass filters.

The results sound very different - with more than a hundred bands the  
sound is much cleaner and less processed-sounding.

This isn't always a good thing - frequency multiplication doesn't  
have the charm of analogue vocoding. But it can produce some unique  
effects which are much closer to the ideal of adding vocal  
articulation to a sound in a way that the analogue approach can't  
emulate.

Richard


From Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com  Mon Dec 15 14:56:01 2008
From: Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:56:01 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] SN76477N ICs currently at BG Micro
In-Reply-To: <6F083EBE6CC44721A1FA49D7007FECDB@pc>
References: <6F083EBE6CC44721A1FA49D7007FECDB@pc>
Message-ID: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5E332@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>

Hi,

> Just a note from Popular Science Magazine's site - the SN76477N sound
> generator IC is available from BG Micro:

I love this part of the description:

'The SN76477 comes in a narrow .4" through hole package, with lead
spacing approx. 1/16"'

/Approximately/ 1/16" - what, like exactly 1/10"...
-- 
Jason Tribbeck



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Dec 15 15:32:59 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:32:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ground planes for mixed signal designs - to split or not to
	split
Message-ID: <49466A9B.8070809@burnit.co.uk>

I've been having a discussion off-list about splitting (or not) ground 
planes for mixed signal designs.  I'd like to open the discussion to the 
list as this seems to be a tricky area where there is not always a clear 
optimal solution.

The specific case I'm looking at is my Digi-Mod design which can be 
summarised as follows:

Has precision analog audio & CV circuitry
Has high frequency digital circuitry
The 3 main places where these domains meet are:
- Audio CODEC (which has both an AGND and DGND pin)
- CV DAC (which has a single GND pin)
- dsPIC built in ADC (the dsPIC has both AGND and DGND pins)

My current thinking is as follows:

Have a separate ground plane for AGND and DGND, with a separate power 
connector pin, connected back at the PSU (off-board).
Have the audio CODEC and CV DAC on the boundary between the 2 planes
Use the AGND plane for both A&D CODEC ground connections and the CV DAC 
ground.
The dsPIC needs to be in the digital zone, but with AGND connection 
routed from the AGND plane.

I'm using this split ground approach because it seems right to isolate 
the analog and digital as much as possible, and also other manufacturers 
such as MOTM use this approach, but I do have concerns with it:

On the dsPIC the AGND and DGND pins could be potentially quite different 
as there may be a lot of inductance between the 2 ground planes.  Will 
this degrade the performance of the dsPIC ADC?

I've read that routing signals across ground planes can cause problems, 
but I am having to route the CV input signals across to the dsPIC, and 
also potentially some digital signals unless I'm very careful to have 
the CODEC and DAC exactly straddling the 2 ground planes.  And maybe the 
MIDI UART signals will have to cross zones because of the position where 
the MIDI headers are.

Another thing is that my 'analog' 3.3V power is made from filtering the 
digital 3.3V via an inductor and capacitor (makes sense to do it this 
way round as the 'analog' 3.3V is very low current so a small, but high 
inductance SMD inductor can be used).  However the 3.3V regulator is 
referenced to DGND, whereas the analog 3.3V devices have ground 
reference AGND.

So it gets me wondering if splitting the grounds is really the right 
thing to do.  And what are the best practice alternatives to avoid 
digital noise in the analog domain without splitting the ground planes?

Seb

P.S. The circuit in question:
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/Digi-Mod.pdf





From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Mon Dec 15 15:44:43 2008
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:44:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Ground planes for mixed signal designs - to split or not
	to split
In-Reply-To: <49466A9B.8070809@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49466A9B.8070809@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A6119354517@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

Read this Appnote for mixed mode design - interesting stuff and nice tips!

http://www.anadigm.com/_doc/AP020800-U202.pdf

Ciao
Peter

Http://www.ullrich.at.tt


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Seb Francis
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 3:33 PM
To: Synth DIY
Subject: [sdiy] Ground planes for mixed signal designs - to split or not to split

I've been having a discussion off-list about splitting (or not) ground 
planes for mixed signal designs.  I'd like to open the discussion to the 
list as this seems to be a tricky area where there is not always a clear 
optimal solution.

The specific case I'm looking at is my Digi-Mod design which can be 
summarised as follows:

Has precision analog audio & CV circuitry
Has high frequency digital circuitry
The 3 main places where these domains meet are:
- Audio CODEC (which has both an AGND and DGND pin)
- CV DAC (which has a single GND pin)
- dsPIC built in ADC (the dsPIC has both AGND and DGND pins)

My current thinking is as follows:

Have a separate ground plane for AGND and DGND, with a separate power 
connector pin, connected back at the PSU (off-board).
Have the audio CODEC and CV DAC on the boundary between the 2 planes
Use the AGND plane for both A&D CODEC ground connections and the CV DAC 
ground.
The dsPIC needs to be in the digital zone, but with AGND connection 
routed from the AGND plane.

I'm using this split ground approach because it seems right to isolate 
the analog and digital as much as possible, and also other manufacturers 
such as MOTM use this approach, but I do have concerns with it:

On the dsPIC the AGND and DGND pins could be potentially quite different 
as there may be a lot of inductance between the 2 ground planes.  Will 
this degrade the performance of the dsPIC ADC?

I've read that routing signals across ground planes can cause problems, 
but I am having to route the CV input signals across to the dsPIC, and 
also potentially some digital signals unless I'm very careful to have 
the CODEC and DAC exactly straddling the 2 ground planes.  And maybe the 
MIDI UART signals will have to cross zones because of the position where 
the MIDI headers are.

Another thing is that my 'analog' 3.3V power is made from filtering the 
digital 3.3V via an inductor and capacitor (makes sense to do it this 
way round as the 'analog' 3.3V is very low current so a small, but high 
inductance SMD inductor can be used).  However the 3.3V regulator is 
referenced to DGND, whereas the analog 3.3V devices have ground 
reference AGND.

So it gets me wondering if splitting the grounds is really the right 
thing to do.  And what are the best practice alternatives to avoid 
digital noise in the analog domain without splitting the ground planes?

Seb

P.S. The circuit in question:
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/Digi-Mod.pdf



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Mon Dec 15 16:06:42 2008
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:06:42 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Ground planes for mixed signal designs - to split or not
	to	split
In-Reply-To: <49466A9B.8070809@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49466A9B.8070809@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49467282.5010809@cox.net>

Seb,

I'm sure you'll get a lot of feedback on this one - it's a topic that 
comes up often and it seems that everyone has an opinion on it, even the 
folks who've never done a layout in their lives. :)  Add to that the 
fact that even the manufacturer's appnotes often disagree on the best 
practices and you've got a real point of contention. Kind of like asking 
which computer language is better.

For the sake of completeness, I'll chime in too. The boards I've been 
working on lately (ARM + FPGAs + 2GHz RF receivers with very high 
sensitivity requirements) only have one ground connection. The ground 
plane is not completely isolated, rather there are cuts which restrict 
the flow of current loops to a specific path. All single-ended interface 
signals between digital & analog cross over at the area where there are 
no cuts - this allows return currents for these signals to flow as 
closely as possible to the outgoing signal. Differential (LVDS) signal 
pairs are allowed to cross anywhere since they provide their own return 
path. This technique appears to work well.

YMMV, OMG, XYZ, BBQ.

Eric

Seb Francis wrote:
> I've been having a discussion off-list about splitting (or not) ground 
> planes for mixed signal designs.  I'd like to open the discussion to the 
> list as this seems to be a tricky area where there is not always a clear 
> optimal solution.
> 
> The specific case I'm looking at is my Digi-Mod design which can be 
> summarised as follows:
> 
> Has precision analog audio & CV circuitry
> Has high frequency digital circuitry
> The 3 main places where these domains meet are:
> - Audio CODEC (which has both an AGND and DGND pin)
> - CV DAC (which has a single GND pin)
> - dsPIC built in ADC (the dsPIC has both AGND and DGND pins)
> 
> My current thinking is as follows:
> 
> Have a separate ground plane for AGND and DGND, with a separate power 
> connector pin, connected back at the PSU (off-board).
> Have the audio CODEC and CV DAC on the boundary between the 2 planes
> Use the AGND plane for both A&D CODEC ground connections and the CV DAC 
> ground.
> The dsPIC needs to be in the digital zone, but with AGND connection 
> routed from the AGND plane.
> 
> I'm using this split ground approach because it seems right to isolate 
> the analog and digital as much as possible, and also other manufacturers 
> such as MOTM use this approach, but I do have concerns with it:
> 
> On the dsPIC the AGND and DGND pins could be potentially quite different 
> as there may be a lot of inductance between the 2 ground planes.  Will 
> this degrade the performance of the dsPIC ADC?
> 
> I've read that routing signals across ground planes can cause problems, 
> but I am having to route the CV input signals across to the dsPIC, and 
> also potentially some digital signals unless I'm very careful to have 
> the CODEC and DAC exactly straddling the 2 ground planes.  And maybe the 
> MIDI UART signals will have to cross zones because of the position where 
> the MIDI headers are.
> 
> Another thing is that my 'analog' 3.3V power is made from filtering the 
> digital 3.3V via an inductor and capacitor (makes sense to do it this 
> way round as the 'analog' 3.3V is very low current so a small, but high 
> inductance SMD inductor can be used).  However the 3.3V regulator is 
> referenced to DGND, whereas the analog 3.3V devices have ground 
> reference AGND.
> 
> So it gets me wondering if splitting the grounds is really the right 
> thing to do.  And what are the best practice alternatives to avoid 
> digital noise in the analog domain without splitting the ground planes?
> 
> Seb
> 
> P.S. The circuit in question:
> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/Digi-Mod.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 16:13:20 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:13:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Evolution of the vocoder?
In-Reply-To: <3E79493A-4B6E-4BBE-AB32-26628B01645C@skydancer.com>
References: <1E07D75E-6EAB-4EBB-8902-4F2D2B6C510B@electricdruid.net>
	<d384bef90812150345p23c2a886l78b75d72a126c559@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E79493A-4B6E-4BBE-AB32-26628B01645C@skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812150713i7d59362ay3a93e1d8a4dcae41@mail.gmail.com>

Since that Old Bob guy seemed kind of secretive about what vocoder he
used for some reason, I just assumed it was probably Native
Instrument's Vokator  which could do up to 1024 bands in the frequency
domain since it seemed like it would be well suited to something like
this.  But that was just my guess.


> Convolution is cheap enough now that doing it in real time is trivial, so
> some of the vocoder plug-ins, and possibly some of the hardware units, do
> Fourier-based cross-modulation with the usual power-of-2 'band' count,
> rather than trying to use bandpass filters.
>
> The results sound very different - with more than a hundred bands the sound
> is much cleaner and less processed-sounding.


From djservs at comcast.net  Mon Dec 15 21:23:14 2008
From: djservs at comcast.net (Nate Reeves)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:23:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] WSG questions
Message-ID: <822D9560-DB42-46CC-AA6A-87F3CF1F4E45@comcast.net>

ok so i got all the components stuffed into the PCB, seemed simple  
enough...

i few quick questions...

1. with the included SPDT switches, it says to use the 2 bottom tabs  
like it was a SPST...I am assuming it does not matter which side is  
"bottom" as long as you use just 2 tabs and leave the "top" third alone?

2.  the kit comes supplies with 4 screws and some plastic mounts and  
washers...is this to mount the front panel to the case or the pcb to  
the case?  i believe its for the included metal panel (very nice by  
the way) but how does one mount the PCB inside the case?

3.  I was curious as to where i could add a DC jack to have that  
option with the unit?

Cheers!

Nate



From raywilson at comcast.net  Mon Dec 15 23:02:26 2008
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:02:26 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] WSG questions
In-Reply-To: <822D9560-DB42-46CC-AA6A-87F3CF1F4E45@comcast.net>
References: <822D9560-DB42-46CC-AA6A-87F3CF1F4E45@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6AC755A9E71349E784832DF904082ED2@RaymondLabPC>

> 1. with the included SPDT switches, it says to use the 2 bottom tabs  like 
> it was a SPST...I am assuming it does not matter which side is  "bottom" 
> as long as you use just 2 tabs and leave the "top" third alone?

Correct

>
> 2.  the kit comes supplies with 4 screws and some plastic mounts and 
> washers...is this to mount the front panel to the case or the pcb to  the 
> case?  i believe its for the included metal panel (very nice by  the way) 
> but how does one mount the PCB inside the case?

They are for mounting the board inside ths case. I assume people have a thin 
enough case that the 3/4 inch machine screws can be used to mount the board.


> 3.  I was curious as to where i could add a DC jack to have that  option 
> with the unit?

Yes you can just wire it in parallel with the battery input and don't apply 
both at the same time.

Cheers 



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Tue Dec 16 00:19:32 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:19:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Korg 700 service manual... horrible quality,
 anyone know a better scan?
Message-ID: <4946E604.7020908@imt.net>

It's a pity there is no way to adjust contrast/brightness in pdf's that 
I can find.  Probably that would do it.  The oldschool scan on fdisk 
archive doesn't print so well I see.  Fixing up one of these old gems 
finally. -bob


From bdu at fdiskc.com  Tue Dec 16 00:25:09 2008
From: bdu at fdiskc.com (Brandon Daniel)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:25:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Korg 700 service manual... horrible quality,
	anyone know a better scan?
In-Reply-To: <4946E604.7020908@imt.net>
References: <4946E604.7020908@imt.net>
Message-ID: <a967aa240812151525h7b6e7425tc90168c9f0c25210@mail.gmail.com>

If you want to remind me again this weekend, I could decompile the pdf
file, adjust brightness and contrast, then replace the one up on the
site, but no time until then, it's finals week!

-Brandon

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Bob Weigel <sounddoctorin at imt.net> wrote:
> It's a pity there is no way to adjust contrast/brightness in pdf's that I
> can find.  Probably that would do it.  The oldschool scan on fdisk archive
> doesn't print so well I see.  Fixing up one of these old gems finally. -bob
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Tue Dec 16 00:33:55 2008
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:33:55 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP for SDIY?
Message-ID: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>

Just got a press release from TI about a new family of DSCs (Digital
Signal Controllers):

http://www.ti.com/corp/docs/landing/f280xx-piccolo/index.htm

and some introductory development systems:

http://www.ti.com/corp/docs/landing/piccolotools/index.htm?DCMP=Piccolo&HQS=Other+EM+controlstick_em

Specs are:
----------
60MHz clock rate
32-bit data path
62kB - 128kB flash
20kB RAM
2kB OTP Boot ROM
JTAG
3.3V supply (on-chip 1.8V core regulator)
12-bit ADC, SPI, CAN, I2C, SCI etc. peripherals.

available in 38-pin TSSOP, 48-pin LQFP, etc.

Assy/C/C++ programmable with TI's Code Composer Studio (CCS). Free
version is limited to 32kB code size.

Looks like they're going after the MCHP dsPIC market. Higher-end devices
have a floating point accelerator (!). Prices are sub $2 in production
qty. Could be an interesting part to use when they finally appear in the
usual distribution channels and we can see what the unit price is for
mere mortals. 32-bit math and FP acceleration would be pretty cool.
Charging for the development tools is not so cool...

Eric




From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Tue Dec 16 00:53:17 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 01:53:17 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP for SDIY?
In-Reply-To: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>
References: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812160149490.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008, Eric Brombaugh wrote:

> Just got a press release from TI about a new family of DSCs (Digital
> Signal Controllers):
>
> http://www.ti.com/corp/docs/landing/f280xx-piccolo/index.htm

Hopefully they have more sane programming model than the C5xxx series. 
Assembly coding on those was pure pain as they don't insert wait states 
when there's a pipeline conflict.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Tue Dec 16 01:06:22 2008
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:06:22 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP for SDIY?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812160149490.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812160149490.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <4946F0FE.9070102@cox.net>

Antti Huovilainen wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008, Eric Brombaugh wrote:
> 
>> Just got a press release from TI about a new family of DSCs (Digital
>> Signal Controllers):
>>
>> http://www.ti.com/corp/docs/landing/f280xx-piccolo/index.htm
> 
> Hopefully they have more sane programming model than the C5xxx series. 
> Assembly coding on those was pure pain as they don't insert wait states 
> when there's a pipeline conflict.

Argh! I remember doing some work on the AT&T DSP3210 many years ago. 
They also required the assembler to resolve pipeline latency. Made 
hand-coding an 'interesting' experience - lots of NOPs required.

Anyway, these are based on the 'C2000 architecture, not 'C5000. No idea 
what that implies about the CPU core capabilities though, and I'm sure 
their press release materials wouldn't reveal any warts like you mentioned.

Wait & See.

Eric


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 16 03:09:03 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 02:09:03 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
Message-ID: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>


Well after 39 weeks of waiting, Ringo Snazelle was born today.
He's a healthy baby and I get the feeling he is going to make all kinds of cool sounds in the future.

thanks guys for keeping me sane during the last 9 months.





--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 





From jluciani at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 03:27:21 2008
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:27:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <608bfe540812151827we75c920ic3093c71f2c3b1ba@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well after 39 weeks of waiting, Ringo Snazelle was born today.
> He's a healthy baby and I get the feeling he is going to make all kinds of cool sounds in the future.
>
> thanks guys for keeping me sane during the last 9 months.

Congratulations.

Don't expect us to keep you sane for the next 18 years ;-)

(* jcl *)


-- 
http://www.luciani.org


From jvastine at charter.net  Tue Dec 16 04:43:33 2008
From: jvastine at charter.net (jvastine)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:43:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
In-Reply-To: <608bfe540812151827we75c920ic3093c71f2c3b1ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081215224333.ZWB7S.694341.root@mp06>

Indeed...congrats to Dan! 

...who says that the tendency to insanity stops once they reachh 18?
I know several individuals who would disagree with that & say that's a never ending thing! ;-)

jvastine

---- John Luciani <jluciani at gmail.com> wrote: 
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well after 39 weeks of waiting, Ringo Snazelle was born today.
> He's a healthy baby and I get the feeling he is going to make all kinds of cool sounds in the future.
>
> thanks guys for keeping me sane during the last 9 months.

Congratulations.

Don't expect us to keep you sane for the next 18 years ;-)

(* jcl *)


-- 
http://www.luciani.org
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From brockr0 at shaw.ca  Tue Dec 16 07:26:48 2008
From: brockr0 at shaw.ca (Brock Russell)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:26:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] SN76477N ICs currently at BG Micro
In-Reply-To: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5E332@sbssrv01.argogrou
	p.local>
References: <6F083EBE6CC44721A1FA49D7007FECDB@pc>
	<E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102B5E332@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>
Message-ID: <79pc8o$1iqg9d@pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>

At 05:56 AM 12/15/2008, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
> > Just a note from Popular Science Magazine's site - the SN76477N sound
> > generator IC is available from BG Micro:
>
>I love this part of the description:
>
>'The SN76477 comes in a narrow .4" through hole package, with lead
>spacing approx. 1/16"'
>
>/Approximately/ 1/16" - what, like exactly 1/10"...
>--
>Jason Tribbeck


No. Approximately 1/16", exactly 0.070"
I designed an adapter board for John Blacet years ago to permit the 
use of these parts in boards that require standard 0.6" width parts. 
He still sells them.

Brock




From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Dec 16 07:40:15 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:40:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
References: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C87D22F706C44D1C814F7C7BFA46F780@jhsilent>

Congratulations!

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Snazelle" <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
To: "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:09 AM
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo



Well after 39 weeks of waiting, Ringo Snazelle was born today.
He's a healthy baby and I get the feeling he is going to make all kinds of 
cool sounds in the future.

thanks guys for keeping me sane during the last 9 months.





--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Tue Dec 16 07:52:23 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 01:52:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: another finished project-ringo
References: <D78E4926-B5F2-429E-9938-B0FADB46459F@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <7A0AF3CF-9A55-4D36-9AAF-DB3E3A6702C3@ece.gatech.edu>

On Dec 15, 2008, at 9:09 PM, Dan Snazelle wrote:

> Well after 39 weeks of waiting, Ringo Snazelle was born today.
> He's a healthy baby and I get the feeling he is going to make all  
> kinds of cool sounds in the future.

Many congrats!

My own synth prototype using this technology arrived in early April of  
this year.

Here's how development is going so far:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0KdNbslMTk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VclRHgawCB0

- Aaron



From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Tue Dec 16 07:53:02 2008
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:53:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <OFC05C86C9.C817CB8F-ONC1257521.0025B1BE-C1257521.002583CE@jeppesen.com>

synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 12/16/2008 03:09:03 AM:
> 
> Well after 39 weeks of waiting, Ringo Snazelle was born today.
> He's a healthy baby and I get the feeling he is going to make all 
> kinds of cool sounds in the future.

:-D
great! my best wishes with all my heart, dan.

matthias


> 
> thanks guys for keeping me sane during the last 9 months.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc 
> 
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Tue Dec 16 08:31:33 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:31:33 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000001c95f50$53635150$6401a8c0@HeapSimLapTop>

Congratulations Dan!

Very glad to hear that all circuits are functioning normally, and no
troubleshooting is required.

However, I'm afraid that, like a modular, these particular projects are
never finished...

Best wishes,
Dave


David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C.  V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"

The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:09 PM
To: sdiy
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo


Well after 39 weeks of waiting, Ringo Snazelle was born today.
He's a healthy baby and I get the feeling he is going to make all kinds of
cool sounds in the future.

thanks guys for keeping me sane during the last 9 months.





--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Tue Dec 16 08:44:02 2008
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:44:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Holidays
In-Reply-To: <6AC755A9E71349E784832DF904082ED2@RaymondLabPC>
References: <822D9560-DB42-46CC-AA6A-87F3CF1F4E45@comcast.net>
	<6AC755A9E71349E784832DF904082ED2@RaymondLabPC>
Message-ID: <007401c95f52$111cd8f0$33568ad0$@net>

Not to sound too sappy, but I wanted to take a second and say thank you to
all on the list for your help when I've asked questions and to wish everyone
a Happy Holiday, Merry Christmas, and happy/merry whatever you celebrate
this time of year.

And, a big thanks to all you very bright people who come up with these
modules and make them available to guys like me. What a great time to be
building synthesizers and playing with electronic music.


David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net






From czvekan at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 10:33:21 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:33:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8EE2AE82-3305-40A7-88D1-9E132D5271F3@gmail.com>

Congratulations , Dan.

:) nice video


On Dec 16, 2008, at 3:09 AM, Dan Snazelle wrote:

>
> Well after 39 weeks of waiting, Ringo Snazelle was born today.
> He's a healthy baby and I get the feeling he is going to make all  
> kinds of cool sounds in the future.
>
> thanks guys for keeping me sane during the last 9 months.
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From gabriel at lindeborg.org  Tue Dec 16 13:24:37 2008
From: gabriel at lindeborg.org (Gabriel Lindeborg)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:24:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MFOS SLM + TSS = LOVE?
Message-ID: <49479E05.4000000@lindeborg.org>

Good afternoon, fellow SDIYers!

I have given some thought on how one could build Ray's SLM and 10-step 
sequencer, as an 8-step, in a portable box to our daughter, soon 
twoandahalf, and the most obvious problem is that the sequencer is built 
for ? 12 to 15V while the SLM is ? 9V. ? 9V is a nice portable voltage 
in that you can run it with two or more 9V 6LR61 or a simple power supply.

After having looked at the schematics to 10SS 
(http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/TENSTEPSEQUENCER/TENSTEPSEQUENCER.php) 
I think that the R1, R2, R22 and R33 would have to be adjusted down to 
three-quarters of the original value ( 9 / 12 = 3 / 4), as with the 
values of the voltage divider components R19/R21, R85/R35 and R44/R46. 
But then I get a little unsure of what more needs to be done. Power for 
logic and opamps should not be a problem but then there are other things 
that I do not get a grip on.

Is it worth it or is there a simpler sequncer that would fit better, I 
really want to just step through a number of voltage values while I send 
a gate, or possibly trig, to the envelope generators, preferably with 
the ability to extend or skip steps.

//Gabbe




From stffn at dibidut.dk  Tue Dec 16 13:37:25 2008
From: stffn at dibidut.dk (Steffen Juul)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:37:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
In-Reply-To: <20081215224333.ZWB7S.694341.root@mp06>
References: <20081215224333.ZWB7S.694341.root@mp06>
Message-ID: <24009.130.225.103.21.1229431045.squirrel@webmail.dibidut.dk>

Congrats to Dan & Co

On Tue, December 16, 2008 4:43 am, jvastine wrote:
> ...who says that the tendency to insanity stops once they reachh 18?

It properly don't. I think it was mention as to when they responsible for
their own act and such. Or when you'd kick^H^H^H^H I mean, when you kindly
let them be king/queen of somewhere else.



From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Tue Dec 16 13:42:43 2008
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:42:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Korg 700 service manual... horrible quality, anyone know
	a better scan?
In-Reply-To: <4946E604.7020908@imt.net>
References: <4946E604.7020908@imt.net>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A611944EF98@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

Hi Bob!

>It's a pity there is no way to adjust contrast/brightness in pdf's that 
>I can find.  Probably that would do it.  The oldschool scan on fdisk 
>archive doesn't print so well I see.  Fixing up one of these old gems 
>finally. -bob

You could install Microsofts free ImageWriter Printer Driver. 
With this you can print into a Pixel image and then edit the images.
If you have Microsoft office you can install this printer driver as described here:

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-11184-0.html?forumID=47&threadID=196116&messageID=2035519

Ciao
Peter





From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Tue Dec 16 14:06:55 2008
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:06:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Korg 700 service manual... horrible quality, anyone know
	a better scan?
In-Reply-To: <4946E604.7020908@imt.net>
References: <4946E604.7020908@imt.net>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A611944F012@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

Sorry, I saw that the Microsoft Image Writer only support monochrome graphics for TIFF output.
So maybe the OpenSource Iamge Printer Driver is better:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/

This one works very nicely!

Ciao
Peter



From igg.debus at t-online.de  Tue Dec 16 17:01:04 2008
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:01:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D8437FAA-4EF1-49E6-8EC0-85E606DF1D12@t-online.de>


Am 16.12.2008 um 03:09 schrieb Dan Snazelle:

> Well after 39 weeks of waiting, Ringo Snazelle was born today.
> He's a healthy baby and I get the feeling he is going to make all  
> kinds of cool sounds in the future.

Congrats!
With that first name he sure is bound to become a drummer...

Ingo


From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Tue Dec 16 18:23:26 2008
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:23:26 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
In-Reply-To: <D8437FAA-4EF1-49E6-8EC0-85E606DF1D12@t-online.de>
References: <BAY144-W5340D8E4EF0984625B3DDDC8F50@phx.gbl>
	<D8437FAA-4EF1-49E6-8EC0-85E606DF1D12@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE6BC@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>

Congratulations Dan!
Be warned though that some of these units start becoming uncalibrated and
chaotic after 16 years of use or so.  I haven't found a way to recalibrate
them.  Your best bet is to establish a pattern of routine maintanance and
observation.  

Barry




From lists at studionebula.com  Tue Dec 16 19:21:41 2008
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:21:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] another finished project-ringo
In-Reply-To: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE6BC@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
Message-ID: <01ec01c95fab$25748790$1102a8c0@Mariko>

I've also heard that they don't come with documentation, and spare parts are
really difficult to obtain.

--Adam

> Congratulations Dan!
> Be warned though that some of these units start becoming 
> uncalibrated and chaotic after 16 years of use or so.  I 
> haven't found a way to recalibrate them.  Your best bet is to 
> establish a pattern of routine maintanance and observation.  



From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Dec 16 23:00:47 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:00:47 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
Message-ID: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>

Hi All,

I'm having one of my periodic "Should I build a DCO?" moments...

Consequently, I've been looking at the Electronotes/ASM ramp core,  
and various schematics for DCOs, including the JX8P.

I'd have thought that since the ramp core of both of these circuits  
is identical, you'd see similar components, but you don't. The ASM  
VCO uses a FET chosen for low on resistance (2N4856 seems favourite)  
whereas the JX8P uses a normal NPN, the 2SC945. The JX8P also uses  
half the capacitor value (1n versus 2n2) so probably doesn't need  
such a low on resistance.

Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO  
can get by with a NPN?

Thanks,
Tom




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Dec 16 23:01:24 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:01:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ground planes for mixed signal designs - to split or not
	to split
In-Reply-To: <49466A9B.8070809@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49466A9B.8070809@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49482534.7090509@burnit.co.uk>

Thank you Eric & Peter for your replies about this.

I've taken the plunge and redone the schematic with a single ground, and 
the PCB layout with a single ground plane.  Have just finished routing 
it and as it turns out the digital routing is so dense that it almost 
completely cuts the ground plane on the digital side from the analog 
side.  So I just added an extra cut to ensure no digital ground current 
flows through the analog zone, and a small no-plane area to ensure 
digital traces aren't running opposite the analog zone ground plane.

So I've kind of ended up with a split ground plane after all, but it's 
connected on the PCB so at least I know any inductance / potential 
difference between the 2 sides is going to be reasonably small.

I please that I managed to fit in a 4 channel DAC and buffer for CV 
outs, and keep the board 98x105mm to ensure compatibility will all types 
of modular cases.

Approx 2x actual size when viewed on a 96dpi monitor..
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/top.png
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/stuff/bottom.png

Thanks for all the help from the list so far .. can't wait to get it 
made & soldered up and get on with the software :)

Seb





From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Tue Dec 16 23:11:24 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:11:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Korg 700 service manual... horrible quality, anyone know
	a better scan?
In-Reply-To: <292b7fe40812161206g444f2f78saca1b0f25360c55c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4946E604.7020908@imt.net>	
	<66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A611944F012@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>
	<292b7fe40812161206g444f2f78saca1b0f25360c55c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4948278C.1030002@imt.net>

hehe..oh yeah the schematics aren't the problem.  I've added that one 
while I was searching to my pointer page btw.  Very nice touch.  But 
it's the service manual itself.  Very hard to print and read any text in 
places.  Totally low intensity character problem.  Needs a blast of 
contrast -bob

Ivan Zhorzh wrote:

> I don't know if you seen this schematic - looks fairly good:
> http://www.cykong.com/Synths/Korg%20700S/Images/Mini-Korg-700S-Schematics-Coloured.gif
> What service manual you got?
> My Korg k700s is working fine, but i'd be interested in any additional 
> info on it..
> Regards,
> Ivan.
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:06 AM, Ullrich Peter 
> <Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net <mailto:Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net>> wrote:
>
>     Sorry, I saw that the Microsoft Image Writer only support
>     monochrome graphics for TIFF output.
>     So maybe the OpenSource Iamge Printer Driver is better:
>
>     http://sourceforge.net/projects/imageprinter/
>
>     This one works very nicely!
>
>     Ciao
>     Peter
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Synth-diy mailing list
>     Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl <mailto:Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>     http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Tue Dec 16 23:11:33 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:11:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Conductive rubber for ribbon controller
Message-ID: <20081216221132.GA3215@aym.net2.nerim.net>

Quite a few ribbons to be made in any of those :

http://vermason.co.uk/FullCatalog/BenchwareandFieldService/WorksurfaceMats/ConductiveNeopreneRubberMatting/

The resistance seems to be in the right range (1~100 k) and the
material should be durable. There might be some friction, though.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Dec 16 23:48:49 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:48:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081216153242.020daf48@mail.comcast.net>

At 03:00 PM 12/16/2008, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>I'd have thought that since the ramp core of both of these circuits
>is identical, you'd see similar components, but you don't. The ASM
>VCO uses a FET chosen for low on resistance (2N4856 seems favourite)
>whereas the JX8P uses a normal NPN, the 2SC945. The JX8P also uses
>half the capacitor value (1n versus 2n2) so probably doesn't need
>such a low on resistance.
>
>Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO
>can get by with a NPN?

I've had the best luck so far with a low-power MOSFET (VN0104).  I posted 
this core several years ago.  There is some discussion here, where you can 
see the carefully shaped 200 ns discharge pulse:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-28713.html
I haven's seen the Roland schematic, so I can't comment on that aspect.

Ian 



From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 16 23:54:13 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:54:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W24EADEE266261DBB180C23B4F50@phx.gbl>


A VCO depends on a rapid discharge time so that it responds properly to
the control voltage.  If it took 0.1 ms to discharge the integrator's
capacitor, the high frequencies would be off as the discharge time
would significantly contribute to the total period of the output
waveform.

A DCO (specifically a voltage-controlled ramp with a digital clock)
only needs a quick discharge to make the proper waveform- the frequency
is not affected, so the component isn't as critical.

Of course I don't know if this was a design issue in either case, but if it matters, I'd guess this would be why.

> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> From: tom at electricdruid.net
> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:00:47 +0000
> Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm having one of my periodic "Should I build a DCO?" moments...
> 
> Consequently, I've been looking at the Electronotes/ASM ramp core,  
> and various schematics for DCOs, including the JX8P.
> 
> I'd have thought that since the ramp core of both of these circuits  
> is identical, you'd see similar components, but you don't. The ASM  
> VCO uses a FET chosen for low on resistance (2N4856 seems favourite)  
> whereas the JX8P uses a normal NPN, the 2SC945. The JX8P also uses  
> half the capacitor value (1n versus 2n2) so probably doesn't need  
> such a low on resistance.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO  
> can get by with a NPN?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
You live life online. So we put Windows on the web. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed Dec 17 00:00:32 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:00:32 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49483310.2040000@sonic.net>

Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> 
> Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO can 
> get by with a NPN?

I can't name them off the top of my head, but there are VCO designs that 
use an NPN transistor instead of a FET for the timing cap reset.  I 
might have time to dig through some schematics tonight...

-Dave



From colin at colinfraser.com  Wed Dec 17 00:12:46 2008
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:12:46 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <9F43B9527CF5403AB33F9FEB69FFC0DC@zen2>

 
> I'm having one of my periodic "Should I build a DCO?" moments...

Do you find these moments occur with tediously exact regularity ?

Cheers,
Colin f




From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Dec 17 00:32:29 2008
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:32:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <BLU143-W24EADEE266261DBB180C23B4F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <19960.30427.qm@web56808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

One other possible consideration is the switching voltage.  If the cap is charging up to say 10V before discharge you might see different behaviour compared to a reset at say 1V.  The lower voltage also leads to a smaller cap being required (for the same frequency and charge current), which overall means a lot less energy through the transistor - hence probably less critical what you use.

Cheers,
Nicolas


--- On Wed, 17/12/08, Scott Nordlund <gsn10 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Scott Nordlund <gsn10 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Received: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008, 11:54 AM
> A VCO depends on a rapid discharge time so that it responds
> properly to
> the control voltage.  If it took 0.1 ms to discharge the
> integrator's
> capacitor, the high frequencies would be off as the
> discharge time
> would significantly contribute to the total period of the
> output
> waveform.
> 
> A DCO (specifically a voltage-controlled ramp with a
> digital clock)
> only needs a quick discharge to make the proper waveform-
> the frequency
> is not affected, so the component isn't as critical.
> 
> Of course I don't know if this was a design issue in
> either case, but if it matters, I'd guess this would be
> why.
> 
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > From: tom at electricdruid.net
> > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:00:47 +0000
> > Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge
> transistors
> > 
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > I'm having one of my periodic "Should I build
> a DCO?" moments...
> > 
> > Consequently, I've been looking at the
> Electronotes/ASM ramp core,  
> > and various schematics for DCOs, including the JX8P.
> > 
> > I'd have thought that since the ramp core of both
> of these circuits  
> > is identical, you'd see similar components, but
> you don't. The ASM  
> > VCO uses a FET chosen for low on resistance (2N4856
> seems favourite)  
> > whereas the JX8P uses a normal NPN, the 2SC945. The
> JX8P also uses  
> > half the capacitor value (1n versus 2n2) so probably
> doesn't need  
> > such a low on resistance.
> > 
> > Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the
> VCO, if the DCO  
> > can get by with a NPN?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Tom
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> You live life online. So we put Windows on the web. 
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline



From luis.marka at terra.com.br  Wed Dec 17 00:44:55 2008
From: luis.marka at terra.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs_Marka?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:44:55 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49483D77.70206@terra.com.br>

Hi Tom,
The NPN transistor you mention in the JX8P is just a waveshaper (part of 
the circuit that converts square to saw), the "core" is the CPU + 
associated programmable dividers (IC39..42).

Luis


Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm having one of my periodic "Should I build a DCO?" moments...
>
> Consequently, I've been looking at the Electronotes/ASM ramp core, and 
> various schematics for DCOs, including the JX8P.
>
> I'd have thought that since the ramp core of both of these circuits is 
> identical, you'd see similar components, but you don't. The ASM VCO 
> uses a FET chosen for low on resistance (2N4856 seems favourite) 
> whereas the JX8P uses a normal NPN, the 2SC945. The JX8P also uses 
> half the capacitor value (1n versus 2n2) so probably doesn't need such 
> a low on resistance.
>
> Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO 
> can get by with a NPN?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Wed Dec 17 01:21:26 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:21:26 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <20081217001858.M52818@wowway.com>

The transistor will eventually be limited by the voltage drop
across it, and the FET will limit by on resistance. Eventually
the FET will cause a complete discharge. Either one will work...
analog switches are another possible choice.

I'd use the NPN if it will work, its cheap and probably less fussy than the FET.

H^) harry




On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:00:47 +0000, Tom Wiltshire wrote
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm having one of my periodic "Should I build a DCO?" moments...
> 
> Consequently, I've been looking at the Electronotes/ASM ramp core,  
> and various schematics for DCOs, including the JX8P.
> 
> I'd have thought that since the ramp core of both of these circuits  
> is identical, you'd see similar components, but you don't. The ASM  
> VCO uses a FET chosen for low on resistance (2N4856 seems favourite) 
>  whereas the JX8P uses a normal NPN, the 2SC945. The JX8P also uses  
> half the capacitor value (1n versus 2n2) so probably doesn't need  
> such a low on resistance.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO  
> can get by with a NPN?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From KHeck73 at aol.com  Wed Dec 17 01:25:51 2008
From: KHeck73 at aol.com (KHeck73 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:25:51 EST
Subject: [sdiy] Re: another finished project-ringo
Message-ID: <c63.37d8b0c3.3679a10f@aol.com>

The soundtrack to the second video should be Pink Floyd's "Sysyphus"  ;).
 
In a message dated 12/16/2008 1:53:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
lanterma at ece.gatech.edu writes:
Many congrats!

My own synth prototype  using this technology arrived in early April of  
this  year.

Here's how development is going so  far:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0KdNbslMTk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VclRHgawCB0

-  Aaron
 
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed Dec 17 02:09:33 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:09:33 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <20081217001858.M52818@wowway.com>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
	<20081217001858.M52818@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4948514D.6000806@sonic.net>

re: analog switches - the octave cat schematics are a good example of 
using analog switches in a vco.

-Dave

harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:
> The transistor will eventually be limited by the voltage drop
> across it, and the FET will limit by on resistance. Eventually
> the FET will cause a complete discharge. Either one will work...
> analog switches are another possible choice.
> 
> I'd use the NPN if it will work, its cheap and probably less fussy than the FET.
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:00:47 +0000, Tom Wiltshire wrote
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I'm having one of my periodic "Should I build a DCO?" moments...
>>
>> Consequently, I've been looking at the Electronotes/ASM ramp core,  
>> and various schematics for DCOs, including the JX8P.
>>
>> I'd have thought that since the ramp core of both of these circuits  
>> is identical, you'd see similar components, but you don't. The ASM  
>> VCO uses a FET chosen for low on resistance (2N4856 seems favourite) 
>>  whereas the JX8P uses a normal NPN, the 2SC945. The JX8P also uses  
>> half the capacitor value (1n versus 2n2) so probably doesn't need  
>> such a low on resistance.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO  
>> can get by with a NPN?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> 




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Dec 17 02:52:59 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:52:59 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Conductive rubber for ribbon controller
In-Reply-To: <20081216221132.GA3215@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <158E201C861D41C5A27CB5C1367F7D36@ice9>

The conductive rubber mats I have experimented with, had nowhere near a low
enough resistance. But maybe these are OK!
Note that with a sheet of conductive material, you can apply voltages at
various points and tap off a 'mix' at points anywhere on the surface.

Paul perry Melbourne Australia

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Andre Majorel
http://vermason.co.uk/FullCatalog/BenchwareandFieldService/WorksurfaceMats/C
onductiveNeopreneRubberMatting/

The resistance seems to be in the right range (1~100 k) and the
material should be durable. There might be some friction, though.




From mverbos at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 17 04:05:01 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:05:01 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <9F43B9527CF5403AB33F9FEB69FFC0DC@zen2>
References: <9F43B9527CF5403AB33F9FEB69FFC0DC@zen2>
Message-ID: <B155D585-9AC2-4FB8-86E9-9DCAD69F12F2@earthlink.net>

ha. that's funny.



On Dec 16, 2008, at 6:12 PM, Colin f wrote:

>
>> I'm having one of my periodic "Should I build a DCO?" moments...
>
> Do you find these moments occur with tediously exact regularity ?
>
> Cheers,
> Colin f
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Wed Dec 17 06:03:54 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:03:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <49483310.2040000@sonic.net>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
	<49483310.2040000@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <DA464A4A-EBB8-404C-821A-1CA356C90E6A@ece.gatech.edu>


On Dec 16, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Dave Manley wrote:

> I can't name them off the top of my head, but there are VCO designs  
> that use an NPN transistor instead of a FET for the timing cap  
> reset.  I might have time to dig through some schematics tonight...

The MOTM VCOs use a sawtooth core with a BJT as the discharge switch.  
I think Paul S. mentioned that the Emu VCOs did something similar, but  
I can't recall for sure.

- Aaron



From razvan784 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 08:05:34 2008
From: razvan784 at gmail.com (Razvan Tataroiu)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:05:34 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <BLU143-W24EADEE266261DBB180C23B4F50@phx.gbl>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
	<BLU143-W24EADEE266261DBB180C23B4F50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7973bb8c0812162305k1ef45e2an7e9b3ca5bf8f6baa@mail.gmail.com>

> A VCO depends on a rapid discharge time so that it responds properly to
> the control voltage.  If it took 0.1 ms to discharge the integrator's
> capacitor, the high frequencies would be off as the discharge time
> would significantly contribute to the total period of the output
> waveform.

I did some quick calculations and came up with some ideas.
Say T is the VCO period, T=t1+t2, where t1 is the ramp-up time and t2
is the discharge time.
t1 is inversely proportional to the control current i, more precisely
t1=C*U/i, where U is the output amplitude and C is the integrator
capacitor.
Assuming t2 is constant (the discharge current must be much larger
than the charging current), the frequency is f=1/(CU/i + t2). You can
decrease i by a certain constant offset to compensate for t2, namely
i0 = -CU/t2.
You can do that with a resistor from the summing point of the
integrator to a stable positive voltage.
Now f will be strictly proportional to i, f=i/CU.
Assuming t2 is not constant enough (it's affected by i), force i to
zero during the discharge by one of the various means available, for
instance a jfet in parallel with the expo converter input.


From peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk  Wed Dec 17 11:03:27 2008
From: peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk (Pete Swarbrick)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:03:27 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <49483310.2040000@sonic.net>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
	<49483310.2040000@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096420@eumail.eu.panavision.com>

The Moog Rogue uses 2N3906 NPN. I remember being both impressed and
appalled at the crudeness of this machine - seriously built down to a
price !


P
-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dave Manley
Sent: 16 December 2008 23:01
To: synth DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors

Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> 
> Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO
can 
> get by with a NPN?

I can't name them off the top of my head, but there are VCO designs that

use an NPN transistor instead of a FET for the timing cap reset.  I 
might have time to dig through some schematics tonight...

-Dave

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From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Wed Dec 17 11:31:54 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:31:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] ARP sliders
Message-ID: <4948D51A.8090103@imt.net>

I'm trying to restore an old Solina.  Missing three of the sliders.  I 
could always use 30mm I suppose but this thing has what appear to be 
more like..37mm  travel.  1.45". 

Does anyone have a source on anything that could be retro'd in there if 
we can't ge the originals?  5K (negotiable..it's just the volume which 
of course ties to ground and signal in and out..so 10K or 50K would 
probably be just fine) 10K and 25K log needed...particularly the latter. 
Any 25K log slider of 30mm travel even would be good if I can't get 
anything else. -Bob


From mark at arpeggi8.com  Wed Dec 17 11:50:51 2008
From: mark at arpeggi8.com (mark at arpeggi8.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:50:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
Message-ID: <8270951.257441229511050814.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver>

I used a FET (ZVN3303) for the reset - thought I was being quite novel in my redesign of the TB-303 VCO 7 years ago...

Apparently it's very similar to what Roland did!

http://www.arpeggi8.com/synth/tb303/tb303sch.PDF

mark




Hi All,

I'm having one of my periodic "Should I build a DCO?" moments...

Consequently, I've been looking at the Electronotes/ASM ramp core,  
and various schematics for DCOs, including the JX8P.

I'd have thought that since the ramp core of both of these circuits  
is identical, you'd see similar components, but you don't. The ASM  
VCO uses a FET chosen for low on resistance (2N4856 seems favourite)  
whereas the JX8P uses a normal NPN, the 2SC945. The JX8P also uses  
half the capacitor value (1n versus 2n2) so probably doesn't need  
such a low on resistance.

Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO  
can get by with a NPN?

Thanks,
Tom


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From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Wed Dec 17 12:01:08 2008
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:01:08 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net><49483310.2040000@sonic.net>
	<F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096420@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
Message-ID: <000801c96036$c4ff83b0$0301a8c0@OFFICE>

The Elektor Formant VCO's use an NPN for the switching transistor

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pete Swarbrick" <peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk>
To: "Dave Manley" <dlmanley at sonic.net>; "synth DIY" 
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:03 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors


> The Moog Rogue uses 2N3906 NPN. I remember being both impressed and
> appalled at the crudeness of this machine - seriously built down to a
> price !
>
>
> P
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dave Manley
> Sent: 16 December 2008 23:01
> To: synth DIY
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
>
> Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
>>
>> Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO
> can
>> get by with a NPN?
>
> I can't name them off the top of my head, but there are VCO designs that
>
> use an NPN transistor instead of a FET for the timing cap reset.  I
> might have time to dig through some schematics tonight...
>
> -Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> checked by CanIt4
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
> Company: Panavision Europe Limited (Registered in England and Wales)
> Registered No.: 2532311
> Registered Office: Corporate Office, Metropolitan Centre, Bristol Road, 
> Greenford, Middlesex, UB6 8GU
> Please note that Panavision Europe Limited may monitor email traffic data 
> and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff 
> training.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This email, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for the use of 
> the addressee(s) named herein and may contain confidential and/or legally 
> privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
> email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
> copying of this email, and any attachments thereto, is strictly 
> prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify 
> the sender and permanently delete the original copy and any copy of the 
> email, all attachments, and any printout thereof. The company accepts no 
> liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
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> 




From damsagain at free.fr  Wed Dec 17 14:17:44 2008
From: damsagain at free.fr (damsagain at free.fr)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:17:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
Message-ID: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>

Hi everybody,

I was searching a vintage Siel Opera 6 Analogic synthesizer when I found an ad
about it but the seller said to me that I would have to restore it.
Indeed he told me that integrated circuits missed on his Opera 6.
So I have a question :
- Does Siel Opera 6 schematics exist ?
I search on the web but I found nothing.

However I wonder :  Does it a good idea trying to fix that synthesizer while I
don't really know why IC have been removed ?

:-/
Thank you for your interest.
Best regards,
Damien



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Dec 17 14:52:21 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:52:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>
References: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <2DD67469-8B40-4578-AA36-E889CA6CD9EE@electricdruid.net>

Damian,

There are Opera6 schematics available somewhere, 'cos I've got a  
copy. Furthermore, the quality is pretty good - way better than some  
of the unreadable rubbish you find online (JX3P?!).
  It's one of the ones I've been looking at whilst thinking about DCOs.
If you don't find it anywhere (or can't be bothered to look), I'll  
send it to you.

To determine whether the synth is repairable, you'd need to know  
which ICs have been removed. The design has 8253 counter-based DCOs,  
followed by SSM2044 filter and SSM2024 quad VCA, controlled by a  
SSM2056 Envelope generator per voice. It's very similar to the Korg  
Polysix (except that had VCOs) or the Poly61.

If someone thought the synth wasn't a viable repair, they might well  
have removed the valuable SSMs to sell. You could probably cover the  
cost of the synth like that. The SSM2044 filters are still available,  
but the envelope generators might be hard to find. Alternatively,  
find a dead Polysix (not hard - they die all the time) that hasn't  
been stripped and use that for parts.

Regards,
Tom

On 17 Dec 2008, at 13:17, damsagain at free.fr wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> I was searching a vintage Siel Opera 6 Analogic synthesizer when I  
> found an ad
> about it but the seller said to me that I would have to restore it.
> Indeed he told me that integrated circuits missed on his Opera 6.
> So I have a question :
> - Does Siel Opera 6 schematics exist ?
> I search on the web but I found nothing.
>
> However I wonder :  Does it a good idea trying to fix that  
> synthesizer while I
> don't really know why IC have been removed ?
>
> :-/
> Thank you for your interest.
> Best regards,
> Damien
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Wed Dec 17 14:53:20 2008
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:53:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>
References: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A611944FA79@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

Maybe you didn't use Google correctly.
For me Google tells me that the Schematics can be found here:

http://www.angelfire.com/ms/sander/siel/opera6/

Ciao
Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of damsagain at free.fr
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 2:18 PM
To: synthdiy
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics

Hi everybody,

I was searching a vintage Siel Opera 6 Analogic synthesizer when I found an ad
about it but the seller said to me that I would have to restore it.
Indeed he told me that integrated circuits missed on his Opera 6.
So I have a question :
- Does Siel Opera 6 schematics exist ?
I search on the web but I found nothing.

However I wonder :  Does it a good idea trying to fix that synthesizer while I
don't really know why IC have been removed ?

:-/
Thank you for your interest.
Best regards,
Damien

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Wed Dec 17 15:30:05 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:30:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>
References: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <200812171530.05905.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Wednesday 17 December 2008, damsagain at free.fr wrote:
> However I wonder :  Does it a good idea trying to fix that
> synthesizer while I don't really know why IC have been removed ?

Only if you already have the IC that have been removed.  Siel synths 
were often looted for parts even if still working since the complete 
synth could quite often be had for less than the individual IC.  The 
Opera6 uses a bunch of SSM IC that likely have been a target of such 
an operation.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec 17 15:37:19 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:37:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <2DD67469-8B40-4578-AA36-E889CA6CD9EE@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <20081217143719.G4171.114524.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi there,

Interesting topic - I'm re-engineering a Siel Opera 6 that I picked up some time ago (*waves* - hello Julian!).

A first stop is the Siel site here:

   http://home-1.worldonline.nl/~smeyer/siel/

On the Opera 6 page you can find a link to the service manual, which includes full schematics.

There is also a group on yahoo for Siel synthesizers in general:

   http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/siel/

You can get a rough idea of the chip lineup from the VintagePlanet website:

   http://www.vintageplanet.nl/

According to that site the following would be my 'difficult-to-obtain' chip list:

SSM2024        Quad VCA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    16.50
SSM2031        VCO  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    24.99
SSM2044        4-Pole VCF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    19.50
SSM2056        ADSR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    35.00
TMS3631AN2L    8-Channel Tone Generator . . . . . . . OR     48.50
TMS7002NL-2    8-Bit Monolithic CPU . . . . . . . . . OR     32.50
DAC0831LCN     8-Bit DAC  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS     8.50
M5517APL       SRAM 2K x 8  . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    14.90
MC68B50P       Asynchronous Comm Interface Adapter  . NOS    27.50
MM5837N        Noise Generator  . . . . . . . . . . . Out of stock

(Prices are including Dutch VAT)

The one VERY important point is to check if the memory backup battery has leaked.  If it has - and eaten into the PCB and surrounding components - it is going to be a right pain to fix.  Bob has some useful comments:

   http://sounddoctorin.com/synthtec/siel/siel.htm
and
   http://sounddoctorin.com/synthtec/siel/dk600.htm

The oscillators have an interesting architecture.  The two core oscillators are analogue high-frequency VCOs (SSM2031).  These then drive dividers to give 4', 8' and 16'.  Then follows two 8-channel (although only 6 are used) programmable tone generators - TMS3631.  These output pulses that are used to reset simple analogue sawtooth circuits.  The rest is pure analogue.

Pitch modulation (pitch bend and LFOs) is applied to the high-frequency VCOs.  So I'd say this is a hybrid VCO/DCO system - the only stable crystal oscillator in the entire synth is that used to provide the clock to the CPU.

Notes of my on-going project are here:

   http://www.milton.arachsys.com/nj71/index.php?menu=2&submenu=4&subsubmenu=4

Cheers,
Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk



From doctroid at doctroid.net  Wed Dec 17 15:40:07 2008
From: doctroid at doctroid.net (Doctroid)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:40:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
In-Reply-To: <4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>
	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>
	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>
	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <77b741f40812170640m18312cccmbfbb6634cc0db83a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:56 PM, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
> As I was taking a few moments to search around my usual suppliers, I felt
> there had to be a quicker way to do this sort of thing.  So a quick bit of
> coding later ...
>
> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php
>
> It's kind of UK oriented, but I'm happy to add more suppliers if someone
> sends me the relevant search URL (i.e. the full search URL to which I can
> just append a search term).
>
> Seb
>
> P.S. The CA3046 seems quite widely available.

Am I using it wrong? I search on "CA3046", checking off "US", and I
get 9 tabs of which 7 say nothing found, 1 (the Farnell tab) doesn't
even show a search, just a table of links to Farnell distributors
(none in the US), and 1 (Nikko) shows the part available.  Not my idea
of "widely available"!

Also, there's this:

http://octopart.com/search?q=CA3146


From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Dec 17 16:19:19 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:19:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <20081217143719.G4171.114524.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
References: <20081217143719.G4171.114524.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <A5D17055-F47C-48CA-9ECB-FA15B50E9998@electricdruid.net>

Sorry, my mistake. Neil's right. Opera 6 uses tone generator chips  
driven from a VCO, not 8253 counters.

A couple of comments about the hard-to-get chips;

> According to that site the following would be my 'difficult-to- 
> obtain' chip list:
>
> SSM2024        Quad VCA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    16.50

The SSM2164 datasheet includes some details on replacing SSM2024 with  
the newer (and still in production) SSM2164. This might get you out  
of a corner if you thought it worth the effort.

> MM5837N        Noise Generator  . . . . . . . . . . . Out of stock

I've done a 8 pin PIC 16F copy of this which would work. Ask me if  
you're interested.

Regards,
Tom





From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 17 16:27:00 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:27:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <20081217143719.G4171.114524.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
References: <2DD67469-8B40-4578-AA36-E889CA6CD9EE@electricdruid.net>
	<20081217143719.G4171.114524.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W33456DB3599DB04BF3C510B4F20@phx.gbl>


I have similarly repaired mine (a DK 600, and also the Expander module), though there are still some problems.  Until it "warms up" it sometimes doesn't produce a sound, and some parameters can be mysteriously changed by tapping on the case.  This may be partly due to those awful DIP connectors... Also voices 5 and 6 have some sort of interference that comes in somewhere (a CV I guess) and distorts the sound somewhat.  I imagine both of those would be a pain to figure out.

I have considered modifying the voice board, though the actual construction would probably be a real headache.  Still I wonder what it would sound like to "cross modulate" the oscillators by mixing the saw reset pulses (the Roland JX3P and JX8P seem to do something along these lines, though I don't know what else is going on simultaneously)... also saw to tri converters, sub oscillators, xor "ring modulation", independent speed/depth controls for LFO 2, another LFO for PWM, filter FM... well maybe not...

> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:37:19 +0000
> From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com
> To: damsagain at free.fr; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
> CC: 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> Interesting topic - I'm re-engineering a Siel Opera 6 that I picked up some time ago (*waves* - hello Julian!).
> 
> A first stop is the Siel site here:
> 
>    http://home-1.worldonline.nl/~smeyer/siel/
> 
> On the Opera 6 page you can find a link to the service manual, which includes full schematics.
> 
> There is also a group on yahoo for Siel synthesizers in general:
> 
>    http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/siel/
> 
> You can get a rough idea of the chip lineup from the VintagePlanet website:
> 
>    http://www.vintageplanet.nl/
> 
> According to that site the following would be my 'difficult-to-obtain' chip list:
> 
> SSM2024        Quad VCA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    16.50
> SSM2031        VCO  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    24.99
> SSM2044        4-Pole VCF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    19.50
> SSM2056        ADSR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    35.00
> TMS3631AN2L    8-Channel Tone Generator . . . . . . . OR     48.50
> TMS7002NL-2    8-Bit Monolithic CPU . . . . . . . . . OR     32.50
> DAC0831LCN     8-Bit DAC  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS     8.50
> M5517APL       SRAM 2K x 8  . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOS    14.90
> MC68B50P       Asynchronous Comm Interface Adapter  . NOS    27.50
> MM5837N        Noise Generator  . . . . . . . . . . . Out of stock
> 
> (Prices are including Dutch VAT)
> 
> The one VERY important point is to check if the memory backup battery has leaked.  If it has - and eaten into the PCB and surrounding components - it is going to be a right pain to fix.  Bob has some useful comments:
> 
>    http://sounddoctorin.com/synthtec/siel/siel.htm
> and
>    http://sounddoctorin.com/synthtec/siel/dk600.htm
> 
> The oscillators have an interesting architecture.  The two core oscillators are analogue high-frequency VCOs (SSM2031).  These then drive dividers to give 4', 8' and 16'.  Then follows two 8-channel (although only 6 are used) programmable tone generators - TMS3631.  These output pulses that are used to reset simple analogue sawtooth circuits.  The rest is pure analogue.
> 
> Pitch modulation (pitch bend and LFOs) is applied to the high-frequency VCOs.  So I'd say this is a hybrid VCO/DCO system - the only stable crystal oscillator in the entire synth is that used to provide the clock to the CPU.
> 
> Notes of my on-going project are here:
> 
>    http://www.milton.arachsys.com/nj71/index.php?menu=2&submenu=4&subsubmenu=4
> 
> Cheers,
> Neil
> --
> http://www.njohnson.co.uk
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass.
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From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 16:33:05 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:33:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Is There Some Kind of SDIY Archive?
Message-ID: <d384bef90812170733m2883acffi39d1a6d0de6bd4f6@mail.gmail.com>

I tried a google search, and found some posts saying there should be a
searchable archive.  But I'm wondering if all the posts on this list
go anywhere permanent, even if it can't be searched?  Just downloading
text or zip files would be fine.  Thanks for any answer.

-Elhardt


From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 17 16:48:24 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:48:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <BLU143-W33456DB3599DB04BF3C510B4F20@phx.gbl>
References: <2DD67469-8B40-4578-AA36-E889CA6CD9EE@electricdruid.net>
	<20081217143719.G4171.114524.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
	<BLU143-W33456DB3599DB04BF3C510B4F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W2356B34BD160F9945EFF77B4F20@phx.gbl>


Also, does anyone know if there's any merit to the "some have VCOs,
some have DCOs" rumor?  I've heard it multiple times but never seen
anything to confirm it.  All of them that I've seen use the same SSM
2031 VCOs with TMS3631 dividers.  The only changes I know of are front
panel/program button designs, different OS versions, and CPU boards
with a separate noise generator board.
If true VCO versions exist, they must be very rare.

_________________________________________________________________
Suspicious message? There?s an alert for that. 
http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad2_122008


From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 17 16:50:45 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:50:45 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Is There Some Kind of SDIY Archive?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812170733m2883acffi39d1a6d0de6bd4f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d384bef90812170733m2883acffi39d1a6d0de6bd4f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W33C113306169548E452754B4F20@phx.gbl>


It's on the list's website: http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/pipermail/synth-diy/

----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:33:05 -0500
> From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Is There Some Kind of SDIY Archive?
>
> I tried a google search, and found some posts saying there should be a
> searchable archive. But I'm wondering if all the posts on this list
> go anywhere permanent, even if it can't be searched? Just downloading
> text or zip files would be fine. Thanks for any answer.
>
> -Elhardt
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Suspicious message? There?s an alert for that. 
http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad2_122008


From barryklein at cox.net  Wed Dec 17 17:12:25 2008
From: barryklein at cox.net (Barry Klein)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:12:25 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] More free power 12V supplies
References: <d384bef90812170733m2883acffi39d1a6d0de6bd4f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU143-W33C113306169548E452754B4F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C493F0574A294F8ABB9BAB5C0EF5D99B@DAD>

Hi guys,
I still have quite a few wallwart power supplies left.
I have a bunch that are 36W, of interchangeable plug form, but with
an EU plug.  They are 110-230V capable but I do not have
US plugs and forget about getting them on your own.  You could
take these out of the housing and modify them to run at 15V if
you know what you are doing...

I have some kits of 36W with UK, US, and EU plugs included.
I also have a few 18W and 36W supplies left that are fixed US plug.

USPS has two flat rate shipping boxes.  One for $10 and another
for $13.  Paypal me the cost and I'll fill ya up a box of em.  First come
first served.  No come, trash they go.  Got enough stuff in the garage
already.

Barry



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 17 17:14:16 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:14:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] ARP sliders
In-Reply-To: <4948D51A.8090103@imt.net>
References: <4948D51A.8090103@imt.net>
Message-ID: <9D2DFCA3-1A58-462E-B626-DE2C4BEC3AEE@earthlink.net>

There's a guy in England who remanufactured those CTS sliders. He  
sells them on ebay in lots of 10. I bought some from him and they are  
great.

mark





On Dec 17, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Bob Weigel wrote:

> I'm trying to restore an old Solina.  Missing three of the  
> sliders.  I could always use 30mm I suppose but this thing has what  
> appear to be more like..37mm  travel.  1.45".
> Does anyone have a source on anything that could be retro'd in  
> there if we can't ge the originals?  5K (negotiable..it's just the  
> volume which of course ties to ground and signal in and out..so 10K  
> or 50K would probably be just fine) 10K and 25K log  
> needed...particularly the latter. Any 25K log slider of 30mm travel  
> even would be good if I can't get anything else. -Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec 17 17:31:28 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:31:28 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <BLU143-W2356B34BD160F9945EFF77B4F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20081217163128.1AST2.624.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi,

Scott Nordlund <gsn10 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> Also, does anyone know if there's any merit to the "some have VCOs,
> some have DCOs" rumor?  I've heard it multiple times but never seen
> anything to confirm it.  All of them that I've seen use the same SSM
> 2031 VCOs with TMS3631 dividers.  The only changes I know of are front
> panel/program button designs, different OS versions, and CPU boards
> with a separate noise generator board.
> If true VCO versions exist, they must be very rare.

The only schematics I've seen are those from S.Meyer's Siel website.  They _only_ show the HF-VCO + dividers architecture.  My guess is that since you can describe this as VCO or DCO they mixed up terms between different models depending on the market conditions..?  I think 12 SSM2031 VCOs would be very expensive, and quite rare.

Perhaps there is some urban-myth going on regarding the VCO/DCO?  Possibly stirred up by the panel marking, which may well have said 'VCO' and 'DCO' at various times / different models.

Unless someone has concrete proof either way..?

Cheers,
Neil



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec 17 17:34:26 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:34:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
Message-ID: <20081217163426.4FZN1.713.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi,

Scott Nordlund <gsn10 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> Also, does anyone know if there's any merit to the "some have VCOs,
> some have DCOs" rumor?  I've heard it multiple times but never seen
> anything to confirm it.  All of them that I've seen use the same SSM
> 2031 VCOs with TMS3631 dividers.  The only changes I know of are front
> panel/program button designs, different OS versions, and CPU boards
> with a separate noise generator board.
> If true VCO versions exist, they must be very rare.

The only schematics I've seen are those from S.Meyer's Siel website.  They _only_ show the HF-VCO + dividers architecture.  My guess is that since you can describe this as VCO or DCO they mixed up terms between different models depending on the market conditions..?  I think 12 SSM2031 VCOs would be very expensive, and quite rare.

Perhaps there is some urban-myth going on regarding the VCO/DCO?  Possibly stirred up by the panel marking, which may well have said 'VCO' and 'DCO' at various times / different models.

Unless someone has concrete proof either way..?

Cheers,
Neil



From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec 17 17:35:34 2008
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:35:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Is There Some Kind of SDIY Archive?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812170733m2883acffi39d1a6d0de6bd4f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d384bef90812170733m2883acffi39d1a6d0de6bd4f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B9FFFA4F-CC58-11DD-8402-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>

There's also this....

http://search.retrosynth.com/synth-diy/


:-)

cheers,
Dave



On Dec 17, 2008, at 15:33, Ken Elhardt wrote:

> I tried a google search, and found some posts saying there should be a
> searchable archive.  But I'm wondering if all the posts on this list
> go anywhere permanent, even if it can't be searched?  Just downloading
> text or zip files would be fine.  Thanks for any answer.
>
> -Elhardt
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Wed Dec 17 17:53:56 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:53:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <A5D17055-F47C-48CA-9ECB-FA15B50E9998@electricdruid.net>
References: <20081217143719.G4171.114524.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
	<A5D17055-F47C-48CA-9ECB-FA15B50E9998@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <20081217165356.GB3215@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-12-17 15:19 +0000, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> Sorry, my mistake. Neil's right. Opera 6 uses tone generator chips  
> driven from a VCO, not 8253 counters.

If that's the same scheme as the Mono (which uses an M110), they
sound like DCOs, i.e... not very good.

I must say I find the idea of gutting a VCO synth to fix a DCO
synth pretty perverse.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed Dec 17 18:18:12 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:18:12 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Is There Some Kind of SDIY Archive?
In-Reply-To: <BLU143-W33C113306169548E452754B4F20@phx.gbl>
References: <d384bef90812170733m2883acffi39d1a6d0de6bd4f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU143-W33C113306169548E452754B4F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49493454.6070402@sonic.net>

There's also this searchable archive:

http://search.retrosynth.com/synth-diy/index.html

AH can also be found on that site.

-Dave


Scott Nordlund wrote:
> It's on the list's website: http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/pipermail/synth-diy/
> 
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:33:05 -0500
>> From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: [sdiy] Is There Some Kind of SDIY Archive?
>>
>> I tried a google search, and found some posts saying there should be a
>> searchable archive. But I'm wondering if all the posts on this list
>> go anywhere permanent, even if it can't be searched? Just downloading
>> text or zip files would be fine. Thanks for any answer.
>>
>> -Elhardt



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed Dec 17 18:21:41 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:21:41 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] ARP sliders
In-Reply-To: <9D2DFCA3-1A58-462E-B626-DE2C4BEC3AEE@earthlink.net>
References: <4948D51A.8090103@imt.net>
	<9D2DFCA3-1A58-462E-B626-DE2C4BEC3AEE@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <49493525.9050409@sonic.net>

http://synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm

-Dave

mark verbos wrote:
> There's a guy in England who remanufactured those CTS sliders. He sells 
> them on ebay in lots of 10. I bought some from him and they are great.
> 
> mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 17, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Bob Weigel wrote:
> 
>> I'm trying to restore an old Solina.  Missing three of the sliders.  I 
>> could always use 30mm I suppose but this thing has what appear to be 
>> more like..37mm  travel.  1.45".
>> Does anyone have a source on anything that could be retro'd in there 
>> if we can't ge the originals?  5K (negotiable..it's just the volume 
>> which of course ties to ground and signal in and out..so 10K or 50K 
>> would probably be just fine) 10K and 25K log needed...particularly the 
>> latter. Any 25K log slider of 30mm travel even would be good if I 
>> can't get anything else. -Bob



From derek at umatic.nl  Wed Dec 17 22:42:35 2008
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:42:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] on/on/on DPDT to 3 position switch
Message-ID: <4949724B.60203@umatic.nl>

I've read that the C&K 7211 switches can be converted into a 3 position 
(triple throw?) switch:

http://www.simple-answer.com/3_pos_switch.jpg

and that this wiring trick could work with other on/on/on DPDT switches, 
like this one from Banzai:

http://www.banzaieffects.com/MEC-M-80008-C-chrome-Toggle-on-on-on-DPDT-pr-13719.html

Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?
-- 
Derek Holzer
http://www.umatic.nl
http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista


From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Wed Dec 17 22:50:07 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:50:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP for SDIY?
In-Reply-To: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>
References: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>
Message-ID: <5111BC87-6715-41DA-A47A-800CD831D229@synth.net>

Eric,

Ironic, I was looking for a fast 32bit CPU, might get one of them, I'd  
like to see the datasheet/schemtic for the USB stick one.

the 60Mhz confuses me, the first page says "10Mhz"

Paul

On 15 Dec 2008, at 23:33, Eric Brombaugh wrote:

> Just got a press release from TI about a new family of DSCs (Digital
> Signal Controllers):
>
> http://www.ti.com/corp/docs/landing/f280xx-piccolo/index.htm
>
> and some introductory development systems:
>
> http://www.ti.com/corp/docs/landing/piccolotools/index.htm?DCMP=Piccolo&HQS=Other+EM+controlstick_em
>
> Specs are:
> ----------
> 60MHz clock rate
> 32-bit data path
> 62kB - 128kB flash
> 20kB RAM
> 2kB OTP Boot ROM
> JTAG
> 3.3V supply (on-chip 1.8V core regulator)
> 12-bit ADC, SPI, CAN, I2C, SCI etc. peripherals.
>
> available in 38-pin TSSOP, 48-pin LQFP, etc.
>
> Assy/C/C++ programmable with TI's Code Composer Studio (CCS). Free
> version is limited to 32kB code size.
>
> Looks like they're going after the MCHP dsPIC market. Higher-end  
> devices
> have a floating point accelerator (!). Prices are sub $2 in production
> qty. Could be an interesting part to use when they finally appear in  
> the
> usual distribution channels and we can see what the unit price is for
> mere mortals. 32-bit math and FP acceleration would be pretty cool.
> Charging for the development tools is not so cool...
>
> Eric
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Wed Dec 17 22:55:12 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:55:12 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP for SDIY?
In-Reply-To: <5111BC87-6715-41DA-A47A-800CD831D229@synth.net>
References: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>
	<5111BC87-6715-41DA-A47A-800CD831D229@synth.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812172354170.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008, Paul Maddox wrote:

> Ironic, I was looking for a fast 32bit CPU, might get one of them, I'd like 
> to see the datasheet/schemtic for the USB stick one.

CPU or DSP?
DSPs are generally rather poor at non-sequential tasks (such as indirect 
memory addressing). ARM is a good choice for fast and cheap 32 bit CPU.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Wed Dec 17 23:14:50 2008
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:14:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP for SDIY?
In-Reply-To: <5111BC87-6715-41DA-A47A-800CD831D229@synth.net>
References: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>
	<5111BC87-6715-41DA-A47A-800CD831D229@synth.net>
Message-ID: <494979DA.6040405@cox.net>

Paul Maddox wrote:
> Eric,
> 
> Ironic, I was looking for a fast 32bit CPU, might get one of them, I'd 
> like to see the datasheet/schemtic for the USB stick one.

Me too. They've got a zipfile of support material for that board here:

http://www.ti.com/litv/zip/sprc835

Unfortunately, this doesn't contain a schematic of the board - just some 
example programming projects and a few meager doc files with 
instructions and a connector pin-out.

> the 60Mhz confuses me, the first page says "10Mhz"

The CPU core runs up to 60MHz.  The on-chip oscillators can run up to 
10MHz - presumably this is a typical 2-pin crystal oscillator with some 
sort of internal PLL to step the clock rate up to a rate that the CPU 
can use for best performance.

This data sheet has more detail:

http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/tms320f28027

Eric



From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Wed Dec 17 23:21:20 2008
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:21:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP for SDIY?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812172354170.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>	<5111BC87-6715-41DA-A47A-800CD831D229@synth.net>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812172354170.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <49497B60.40805@cox.net>

Antti Huovilainen wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008, Paul Maddox wrote:
> 
>> Ironic, I was looking for a fast 32bit CPU, might get one of them, I'd 
>> like to see the datasheet/schemtic for the USB stick one.
> 
> CPU or DSP?
> DSPs are generally rather poor at non-sequential tasks (such as indirect 
> memory addressing). ARM is a good choice for fast and cheap 32 bit CPU.

Agree. Cheap processors (some Philips/NXP ARMs for ~$3 in single qty), 
widely available development tools (Mac OS X, Linux, WinXX both free and 
pro), reasonably fast processors (40 - 90 MHz for ARM7, up to 600MHz for 
high-end SoC versions depending on how much you want to spend) and 
decent peripherals.

Just don't expect fantastic performance from the low-end parts if you 
need DSP or tight/fast real-time interrupt response (see my previous 
rants about this :) ).

Eric


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Dec 17 23:52:39 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:52:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DCO ramp core / capacitor discharge transistors
In-Reply-To: <49483310.2040000@sonic.net>
References: <4FA28F35-1950-49A9-AE62-F1FC8F2A1203@electricdruid.net>
	<49483310.2040000@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <494982B7.8060706@xs4all.nl>

Dave Manley schreef:
> Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
>>
>> Can anyone tell me why we need to use a FET for the VCO, if the DCO 
>> can get by with a NPN?
>
> I can't name them off the top of my head, but there are VCO designs 
> that use an NPN transistor instead of a FET for the timing cap reset.  
> I might have time to dig through some schematics tonight...
It seems to depend on whether the VCO core uses an opamp integrator 
where one side of the capacitor is a virtual ground, for example ASM-2, 
or whether it doesn't, in which case the bottom of the timing capacitor 
is connected to a solid ground or supply voltage, and the expo converter 
output is at the live side of the capacitor, for example Oberheim SEM, 
Elektor Formant, Minimoog, ...

With the opamp integrator based VCO you tend to see a FET, in the other 
case often a BJT is used.

I assume it has to do with the base current into the BJT, which can 
harmlessly flow into ground or supply rail in the second type of VCO, 
whereas in the first type the integrator opamp would have to deal with 
it. I'm guessing that, once the capacitor is fully discharged but with a 
duration of the reset pulse slightly longer than absolutely necessary, 
the opamp, trying to keep its inverting input at ground potential, will 
proceed to pull its output negative instead of remaining at 0V.
Using a FET you don't  have this problem because it can be switched on 
without a current flowing from its gate into its source or drain.

As the DCO in the JX8P uses an opamp integrator and an NPN transistor, 
apparently it is possible to make a decent sawtooth with this 
combination. However, note the diode at the output of the opamp. What do 
you think it might be for ;)

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Thu Dec 18 00:11:45 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:11:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP for SDIY?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812172354170.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <4946E963.8030202@cox.net>	<5111BC87-6715-41DA-A47A-800CD831D229@synth.net>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812172354170.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <49498731.4050504@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Antti Huovilainen skrev:
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008, Paul Maddox wrote:
> 
>> Ironic, I was looking for a fast 32bit CPU, might get one of them, I'd 
>> like to see the datasheet/schemtic for the USB stick one.
> 
> CPU or DSP?
> DSPs are generally rather poor at non-sequential tasks (such as indirect 
> memory addressing). ARM is a good choice for fast and cheap 32 bit CPU.

Agree, but the vendors isn't really supplying a stable supply. Vendors 
may drop models or even the ARM product line... so over a few years a 
number of re-targets. Sigh. I like them but the love is tough.

Cheers,
Magnus


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Thu Dec 18 00:32:54 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:32:54 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Ca3054 old fag with new uses!
In-Reply-To: <000801c96036$c4ff83b0$0301a8c0@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <994402.2173.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I dont know if this has been mentioned already by anyway
Some week ago i found by accident out a transistor array that could be of neat uses. CA3054.
Applications would be , dual expo converter, diff stage and current sink in VCA and VCF,
balanced modulators,
mul and div cirquits, its cheap!


      __________________________________________________________
G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling. 
S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325



From derek at umatic.nl  Thu Dec 18 00:37:02 2008
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:37:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] on/on/on DPDT to 3 position switch
In-Reply-To: <a6fac3a00812171530y1f2df086n85255fad06c87d0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4949724B.60203@umatic.nl>
	<a6fac3a00812171530y1f2df086n85255fad06c87d0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49498D1E.9030400@umatic.nl>

Hi, thanks for the information. The main question was whether any 
on-on-on switch could be wired in this way, and not just the C&K7211. 
Can I assume this is true, or are there different types of on-on-on 
switches?

best!
Derek

megaohm wrote:
> That is no trick. The C&K7211 needs to be wired to function as a 3 
> position switch. The info in on their site under "technical data" pdf.
> 
> NKK also make these and others do, too.
> 
> They must be:
> 
> ON/ON/ON
> 
> not
> 
> ON/OFF/ON
> 
> 
> p.
> 
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Derek Holzer <derek at umatic.nl 
> <mailto:derek at umatic.nl>> wrote:
> 
>     I've read that the C&K 7211 switches can be converted into a 3
>     position (triple throw?) switch:
> 
>     http://www.simple-answer.com/3_pos_switch.jpg
> 
>     and that this wiring trick could work with other on/on/on DPDT
>     switches, like this one from Banzai:
> 
>     http://www.banzaieffects.com/MEC-M-80008-C-chrome-Toggle-on-on-on-DPDT-pr-13719.html
> 
>     Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?
>     -- 
>     Derek Holzer
>     http://www.umatic.nl
>     http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
>     _______________________________________________
>     Synth-diy mailing list
>     Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl <mailto:Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>     http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 138:
"Retrace your steps"


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu Dec 18 01:13:08 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:13:08 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <20081217163128.1AST2.624.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
References: <20081217163128.1AST2.624.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <49499594.1010809@imt.net>

The wealth of information on these synths is on the DK600 link from the 
sounddoctorin.com global synth page.  I've worked extensively on these 
units and have included all the information I can accumulate on common 
problems and how the architecture works.  There are two analog 
oscillators.  "DCO" by definition means that there is some..digital 
element controlling the oscillations.  Had I been the one coining the 
terms I'd have made "DGO" (digitally generated oscillators) the case 
that would include ROM based waveforms (eg. Kawai K3, Korg DW series, 
etc.) and the Timer and CPU pulsing based things like Kawai SX series 
and Roland JX etc.  But it would ALSO include the Siel DK600/opera 6 
because what you really have here is an analog oscillator that is 
driving a TOS and divide down network!  (It's on those specialized 
chips..again consult my web page.)

Then there would be the DCO...digitially controlled oscillator.  
Well..hey anything with a tune feature that is digitally controlled 
would qualify for that in a way :-).    But it would be good to not use 
it for that since 'auto tune oscillators' is adequate for that 
classification.  But any kind of scheme which actually uses digitally 
generated control voltages rather than analog voltages to ultimately 
control the primary note value of the oscillator...that would be a DCO 
in any normal person's way of thinking.  So pretty much storage synth 
get gets the CV from a DAC...that would be a dco if I had been in charge 
of things.   I don't know why companies did what they did in that 
respect.  Marketing not listening to engineering?  I dunno. -bob

neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Scott Nordlund <gsn10 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
>  
>
>>Also, does anyone know if there's any merit to the "some have VCOs,
>>some have DCOs" rumor?  I've heard it multiple times but never seen
>>anything to confirm it.  All of them that I've seen use the same SSM
>>2031 VCOs with TMS3631 dividers.  The only changes I know of are front
>>panel/program button designs, different OS versions, and CPU boards
>>with a separate noise generator board.
>>If true VCO versions exist, they must be very rare.
>>    
>>
>
>The only schematics I've seen are those from S.Meyer's Siel website.  They _only_ show the HF-VCO + dividers architecture.  My guess is that since you can describe this as VCO or DCO they mixed up terms between different models depending on the market conditions..?  I think 12 SSM2031 VCOs would be very expensive, and quite rare.
>
>Perhaps there is some urban-myth going on regarding the VCO/DCO?  Possibly stirred up by the panel marking, which may well have said 'VCO' and 'DCO' at various times / different models.
>
>Unless someone has concrete proof either way..?
>
>Cheers,
>Neil
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu Dec 18 01:15:40 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:15:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <20081217163128.1AST2.624.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
References: <20081217163128.1AST2.624.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <4949962C.3010101@imt.net>

PS again whatever it is that makes sonic state with all it's crummy 
broken links and all these other frivelous sites ranked higher than my 
site... I dunno.  But this is an example of why the crawlers aren't 
necessarily doing the best job of bringing good information to the top. 
  I'm down at the bottom of page two on a search for Siel DK600

neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Scott Nordlund <gsn10 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
>  
>
>>Also, does anyone know if there's any merit to the "some have VCOs,
>>some have DCOs" rumor?  I've heard it multiple times but never seen
>>anything to confirm it.  All of them that I've seen use the same SSM
>>2031 VCOs with TMS3631 dividers.  The only changes I know of are front
>>panel/program button designs, different OS versions, and CPU boards
>>with a separate noise generator board.
>>If true VCO versions exist, they must be very rare.
>>    
>>
>
>The only schematics I've seen are those from S.Meyer's Siel website.  They _only_ show the HF-VCO + dividers architecture.  My guess is that since you can describe this as VCO or DCO they mixed up terms between different models depending on the market conditions..?  I think 12 SSM2031 VCOs would be very expensive, and quite rare.
>
>Perhaps there is some urban-myth going on regarding the VCO/DCO?  Possibly stirred up by the panel marking, which may well have said 'VCO' and 'DCO' at various times / different models.
>
>Unless someone has concrete proof either way..?
>
>Cheers,
>Neil
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu Dec 18 01:18:14 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:18:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] ARP sliders
In-Reply-To: <49493525.9050409@sonic.net>
References: <4948D51A.8090103@imt.net>
	<9D2DFCA3-1A58-462E-B626-DE2C4BEC3AEE@earthlink.net>
	<49493525.9050409@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <494996C6.60506@imt.net>

100k log (AUD), 100k lin, 1meg log. are all that are available there.  
The 25K log is interdependent on external circuitry so I'd have to mod 
some things to use a 100K I think there.

Dave Manley wrote:

> http://synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm
>
> -Dave
>
> mark verbos wrote:
>
>> There's a guy in England who remanufactured those CTS sliders. He 
>> sells them on ebay in lots of 10. I bought some from him and they are 
>> great.
>>
>> mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 17, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Bob Weigel wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to restore an old Solina.  Missing three of the sliders.  
>>> I could always use 30mm I suppose but this thing has what appear to 
>>> be more like..37mm  travel.  1.45".
>>> Does anyone have a source on anything that could be retro'd in there 
>>> if we can't ge the originals?  5K (negotiable..it's just the volume 
>>> which of course ties to ground and signal in and out..so 10K or 50K 
>>> would probably be just fine) 10K and 25K log needed...particularly 
>>> the latter. Any 25K log slider of 30mm travel even would be good if 
>>> I can't get anything else. -Bob
>>
>
>


From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Dec 18 01:38:42 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:38:42 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
Message-ID: <200812180138.mBI1cgxa021824@linux7.lan>

Anyone who has this board - a note about the USB-UART Bridge (which is useful for getting information to/from a PC), the pin information in the user guide PDF is wrong, there are no such pins on this particular FPGA.  The schematic shows the correct pins, but because they are labeled from the PSoC perspective, they appear backwards from the FPGA perspective.  I.e., the Rx pin is really the transmit data pin from the FPGA to the UART.

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Dec 18 01:45:36 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:45:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
Message-ID: <200812180145.mBI1jahe023784@linux7.lan>

music.maker at gte.net wrote:
>Anyone who has this board - a note about the USB-UART Bridge 
>(which is useful for getting information to/from a PC), the pin 
>information in the user guide PDF is wrong, there are no such 
>pins on this particular FPGA. The schematic shows the correct 
>pins, but because they are labeled from the PSoC perspective, 
>they appear backwards from the FPGA perspective. I.e., the Rx pin 
>is really the transmit data pin from the FPGA to the UART. 
                                                      ^^^^ --- PSoC not UART.

Phhhht.  

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu Dec 18 02:51:34 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:51:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] ARP sliders
In-Reply-To: <9D2DFCA3-1A58-462E-B626-DE2C4BEC3AEE@earthlink.net>
References: <4948D51A.8090103@imt.net>
	<9D2DFCA3-1A58-462E-B626-DE2C4BEC3AEE@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4949ACA6.9010506@imt.net>

Ahh..excellent!  I'll just put a watch out on ebay I guess then. -Bob

mark verbos wrote:

> There's a guy in England who remanufactured those CTS sliders. He  
> sells them on ebay in lots of 10. I bought some from him and they are  
> great.
>
> mark
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 17, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Bob Weigel wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to restore an old Solina.  Missing three of the  sliders.  
>> I could always use 30mm I suppose but this thing has what  appear to 
>> be more like..37mm  travel.  1.45".
>> Does anyone have a source on anything that could be retro'd in  there 
>> if we can't ge the originals?  5K (negotiable..it's just the  volume 
>> which of course ties to ground and signal in and out..so 10K  or 50K 
>> would probably be just fine) 10K and 25K log  needed...particularly 
>> the latter. Any 25K log slider of 30mm travel  even would be good if 
>> I can't get anything else. -Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>


From jluciani at gmail.com  Thu Dec 18 04:16:28 2008
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:16:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] on/on/on DPDT to 3 position switch
In-Reply-To: <49498D1E.9030400@umatic.nl>
References: <4949724B.60203@umatic.nl>
	<a6fac3a00812171530y1f2df086n85255fad06c87d0c@mail.gmail.com>
	<49498D1E.9030400@umatic.nl>
Message-ID: <608bfe540812171916g4ee450b5q1821471c0ee85ac0@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Derek Holzer <derek at umatic.nl> wrote:
> Hi, thanks for the information. The main question was whether any on-on-on
> switch could be wired in this way, and not just the C&K7211. Can I assume
> this is true, or are there different types of on-on-on switches?

I have never heard of other types of on-on-on switches. All of the ones that I
have seen operate like the 7211.

(* jcl *)

>
> best!
> Derek
>
> megaohm wrote:
>>
>> That is no trick. The C&K7211 needs to be wired to function as a 3
>> position switch. The info in on their site under "technical data" pdf.
>>
>> NKK also make these and others do, too.
>>
>> They must be:
>>
>> ON/ON/ON
>>
>> not
>>
>> ON/OFF/ON
>>
>>
>> p.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Derek Holzer <derek at umatic.nl
>> <mailto:derek at umatic.nl>> wrote:
>>
>>    I've read that the C&K 7211 switches can be converted into a 3
>>    position (triple throw?) switch:
>>
>>    http://www.simple-answer.com/3_pos_switch.jpg
>>
>>    and that this wiring trick could work with other on/on/on DPDT
>>    switches, like this one from Banzai:
>>
>>
>>  http://www.banzaieffects.com/MEC-M-80008-C-chrome-Toggle-on-on-on-DPDT-pr-13719.html
>>
>>    Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?
>>    --    Derek Holzer
>>    http://www.umatic.nl
>>    http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Synth-diy mailing list
>>    Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl <mailto:Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>    http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>
> --
> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
> ---Oblique Strategy # 138:
> "Retrace your steps"
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
http://www.luciani.org


From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Thu Dec 18 04:27:44 2008
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Elby Designs - Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:27:44 +0900
Subject: [sdiy] on/on/on DPDT to 3 position switch
Message-ID: <54741.1229570864@ozemail.com.au>

Only some switches operate this way.
Most switches toggle both pairs of contacts in parallel giving you a conventional
2-way switch with centre-off.

Switches like the C&K7211 have a special arrangement that toggles the switch
contacts ina different manne rsulting in set of contacts always being closed when
in the centre-position. This is how you are able to get a 3-way action from the
switch.

Best regards
Laurie Biddulph
www.elby-designs.com

On Thu Dec 18 14:16 , "John Luciani"  sent:

>On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Derek Holzer derek at umatic.nl> wrote:
>> Hi, thanks for the information. The main question was whether any on-on-on
>> switch could be wired in this way, and not just the C&K7211. Can I assume
>> this is true, or are there different types of on-on-on switches?
>
>I have never heard of other types of on-on-on switches. All of the ones that I
>have seen operate like the 7211.
>
>(* jcl *)
>
>>
>> best!
>> Derek
>>
>> megaohm wrote:
>>>
>>> That is no trick. The C&K7211 needs to be wired to function as a 3
>>> position switch. The info in on their site under "technical data" pdf.
>>>
>>> NKK also make these and others do, too.
>>>
>>> They must be:
>>>
>>> ON/ON/ON
>>>
>>> not
>>>
>>> ON/OFF/ON
>>>
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Derek Holzer derek at umatic.nl
>>> derek at umatic.nl','','','')">derek at umatic.nl>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    I've read that the C&K 7211 switches can be converted into a 3
>>>    position (triple throw?) switch:
>>>
>>>    http://www.simple-answer.com/3_pos_switch.jpg
>>>
>>>    and that this wiring trick could work with other on/on/on DPDT
>>>    switches, like this one from Banzai:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
http://www.banzaieffects.com/MEC-M-80008-C-chrome-Toggle-on-on-on-DPDT-pr-13719.html
>>>
>>>    Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?
>>>    --    Derek Holzer
>>>    http://www.umatic.nl
>>>    http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    Synth-diy mailing list
>>>    Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl','','','')">Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>>    http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
>> ---Oblique Strategy # 138:
>> "Retrace your steps"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>http://www.luciani.org
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>)





From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Thu Dec 18 07:55:45 2008
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:55:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] on/on/on DPDT to 3 position switch
In-Reply-To: <54741.1229570864@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <OF3781948D.A8661F0A-ONC1257523.0025EEC5-C1257523.0025C451@jeppesen.com>

synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 12/18/2008 04:27:44 AM:
> Only some switches operate this way.
> Most switches toggle both pairs of contacts in parallel giving you a
> conventional
> 2-way switch with centre-off.
> 
> Switches like the C&K7211 have a special arrangement that toggles the 
switch
> contacts ina different manne rsulting in set of contacts always 
> being closed when
> in the centre-position. This is how you are able to get a 3-way 
> action from the
> switch.

just a little graphic to make it more visible:
http://www.modular.fonik.de/files/ononon.gif

cheers,
matthias
___
www.modular.fonik.de


> 
> Best regards
> Laurie Biddulph
> www.elby-designs.com
> 
> On Thu Dec 18 14:16 , "John Luciani"  sent:
> 
> >On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Derek Holzer derek at umatic.nl> wrote:
> >> Hi, thanks for the information. The main question was whether any 
on-on-on
> >> switch could be wired in this way, and not just the C&K7211. Can I 
assume
> >> this is true, or are there different types of on-on-on switches?
> >
> >I have never heard of other types of on-on-on switches. All of the 
> ones that I
> >have seen operate like the 7211.
> >
> >(* jcl *)
> >
> >>
> >> best!
> >> Derek
> >>
> >> megaohm wrote:
> >>>
> >>> That is no trick. The C&K7211 needs to be wired to function as a 3
> >>> position switch. The info in on their site under "technical data" 
pdf.
> >>>
> >>> NKK also make these and others do, too.
> >>>
> >>> They must be:
> >>>
> >>> ON/ON/ON
> >>>
> >>> not
> >>>
> >>> ON/OFF/ON
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> p.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Derek Holzer derek at umatic.nl
> >>> derek at umatic.nl','','','')">derek at umatic.nl>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>    I've read that the C&K 7211 switches can be converted into a 3
> >>>    position (triple throw?) switch:
> >>>
> >>>    http://www.simple-answer.com/3_pos_switch.jpg
> >>>
> >>>    and that this wiring trick could work with other on/on/on DPDT
> >>>    switches, like this one from Banzai:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 
> http://www.banzaieffects.com/MEC-M-80008-C-chrome-Toggle-on-on-on-
> DPDT-pr-13719.html
> >>>
> >>>    Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?
> >>>    --    Derek Holzer
> >>>    http://www.umatic.nl
> >>>    http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
> >>>    _______________________________________________
> >>>    Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>    Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl','','','')">Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> >>>    http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.
> com/macumbista
> >> ---Oblique Strategy # 138:
> >> "Retrace your steps"
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >-- 
> >http://www.luciani.org
> >_______________________________________________
> >Synth-diy mailing list
> >Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Thu Dec 18 08:29:54 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:29:54 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] ARP sliders
In-Reply-To: <4949ACA6.9010506@imt.net>
References: <4948D51A.8090103@imt.net>	<9D2DFCA3-1A58-462E-B626-DE2C4BEC3AEE@earthlink.net>
	<4949ACA6.9010506@imt.net>
Message-ID: <4949FBF2.30207@sonic.net>

Bob,

I'm pretty sure the guy on ebay that Mark is referring to is the
same as the 'synthrestore' link I gave you.  On ebay he sells as
"Anglian Arts". For example, see item 310102047452.  Unfortunately,
he only lists the three values you mentioned.

You could try emailing him: info (at) synthrestore (dot) co (dot) uk

-Dave
> Ahh..excellent!  I'll just put a watch out on ebay I guess then. -Bob
>
> mark verbos wrote:
>
>> There's a guy in England who remanufactured those CTS sliders. He  
>> sells them on ebay in lots of 10. I bought some from him and they 
>> are  great.
>>
>> mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 17, 2008, at 5:31 AM, Bob Weigel wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to restore an old Solina.  Missing three of the  
>>> sliders.  I could always use 30mm I suppose but this thing has what  
>>> appear to be more like..37mm  travel.  1.45".
>>> Does anyone have a source on anything that could be retro'd in  
>>> there if we can't ge the originals?  5K (negotiable..it's just the  
>>> volume which of course ties to ground and signal in and out..so 10K  
>>> or 50K would probably be just fine) 10K and 25K log  
>>> needed...particularly the latter. Any 25K log slider of 30mm travel  
>>> even would be good if I can't get anything else. -Bob
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>



From louis at dompselaar.org  Thu Dec 18 08:34:19 2008
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 08:34:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] on/on/on DPDT to 3 position switch
In-Reply-To: <54741.1229570864@ozemail.com.au>
References: <54741.1229570864@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <4949FCFB.4060705@dompselaar.org>

> Only some switches operate this way.
> Most switches toggle both pairs of contacts in parallel giving you a conventional
> 2-way switch with centre-off.

Although technically that would by an on-off-on switch, which
Banzai also sell.  So my guess is that when Banzai mention
on-on-on, they really mean on-on-on.


From czvekan at gmail.com  Thu Dec 18 11:18:09 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:18:09 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
In-Reply-To: <082AAFEE-10E7-4A31-B4B7-7337D2E30950@gmail.com>
References: <3AA9C0FC-7DCE-4D6F-8663-D8C503A7535D@gmail.com>
	<493BB7C8.5060304@4thharmonic.com>
	<002101c9587a$1ff0a9d0$5fd1fd70$@net>
	<082AAFEE-10E7-4A31-B4B7-7337D2E30950@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A0DA0859-6ADA-4056-917D-03772C1F504C@gmail.com>

I have received my ARP 2600 slider caps today. James is right the  
finish is way rougher than expected . The original is shiny compared  
to this product. I have expected little more accuracy for that price.  
But hey I finally got slider caps . Now the next thing would be to  
replace the broken slider shafts . Anybody has some resources. I don't  
want to spent 100's of dollars just for broken plastic slider shafts.  
Cause the carbon is still fine with me?
There used to be a guy in Florida "Bob" that was selling these ARP  
sliders ,Slider Caps and Shafts separately. Or would Anglian Art sell  
these too? I haven't seen anything like that on his website.

Csaba
On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:38 PM, Csaba Zvekan wrote:

> All right, I bought some ten pieces . But the price is ridiculously  
> high, IMO.  Ohh well.
> I wonder if I can buy a few   slider shaft off from this guy ?
>
> Thanks guys for the input.
>
> On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, James R. Coplin wrote:
>
>> Your original caps have 30 years of hand applied gentle polishing.   
>> See how these new ones look in 30 years. ;)
>>
>> James R. Coplin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
>> ] On Behalf Of James Dunn
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:47 AM
>> To: Csaba Zvekan
>> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
>>
>> Yes, I bought these replacement caps for my 2600 a few months ago,
>> although I seem to remember they were a bit more expensive then -  
>> more
>> like ?45 for ten! They're pretty good though. They fit well, the only
>> criticism would be that they have a slightly rougher matt finish. The
>> original ones on my 2600 have a more gloss finish.
>>
>> Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>>> Hi Group ,
>>>
>>> I found some interesting sliders and caps for my ARP2600 on ebay.  
>>> Does
>>> anybody knows this guy Anglian Art ? Any experience with the seller?
>>>
>>> here is what I would be interested in.
>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ARP-2600-slider-caps-NEW-STOCK-qty-of-10_W0QQitemZ310102047370QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Csaba
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From czvekan at gmail.com  Thu Dec 18 11:24:41 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:24:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
In-Reply-To: <200812180145.mBI1jahe023784@linux7.lan>
References: <200812180145.mBI1jahe023784@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <C6175F01-324C-4B01-A94E-1DF386D59E72@gmail.com>

Thanks Scott for the info,

Do you have some updated pages or notes we can print out . So we can  
attach it to the User guides pdf or something.
I guess I could print out this mail , right :)  hmmm ok.


Csaba


On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:45 AM, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> music.maker at gte.net wrote:
>> Anyone who has this board - a note about the USB-UART Bridge
>> (which is useful for getting information to/from a PC), the pin
>> information in the user guide PDF is wrong, there are no such
>> pins on this particular FPGA. The schematic shows the correct
>> pins, but because they are labeled from the PSoC perspective,
>> they appear backwards from the FPGA perspective. I.e., the Rx pin
>> is really the transmit data pin from the FPGA to the UART.
>                                                      ^^^^ --- PSoC  
> not UART.
>
> Phhhht.
>
> -- ScottG
> ________________________________________________________________________
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/ 
> FPGA_synth/
> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From james at 4thharmonic.com  Thu Dec 18 11:37:22 2008
From: james at 4thharmonic.com (James Dunn)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 10:37:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
In-Reply-To: <A0DA0859-6ADA-4056-917D-03772C1F504C@gmail.com>
References: <3AA9C0FC-7DCE-4D6F-8663-D8C503A7535D@gmail.com>	<493BB7C8.5060304@4thharmonic.com>	<002101c9587a$1ff0a9d0$5fd1fd70$@net>	<082AAFEE-10E7-4A31-B4B7-7337D2E30950@gmail.com>
	<A0DA0859-6ADA-4056-917D-03772C1F504C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <494A27E2.7040804@4thharmonic.com>

I had some broken slider shafts too, but I found the same shafts in some 
sliders I salvaged from a Thomas Troubadour organ. This is probably 
harder to come by than the replacement sliders, but maybe some other 
organs from this period used them...?

Csaba Zvekan wrote:
> I have received my ARP 2600 slider caps today. James is right the 
> finish is way rougher than expected . The original is shiny compared 
> to this product. I have expected little more accuracy for that price. 
> But hey I finally got slider caps . Now the next thing would be to 
> replace the broken slider shafts . Anybody has some resources. I don't 
> want to spent 100's of dollars just for broken plastic slider shafts. 
> Cause the carbon is still fine with me?
> There used to be a guy in Florida "Bob" that was selling these ARP 
> sliders ,Slider Caps and Shafts separately. Or would Anglian Art sell 
> these too? I haven't seen anything like that on his website.
>
> Csaba
> On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:38 PM, Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>
>> All right, I bought some ten pieces . But the price is ridiculously 
>> high, IMO.  Ohh well.
>> I wonder if I can buy a few   slider shaft off from this guy ?
>>
>> Thanks guys for the input.
>>
>> On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, James R. Coplin wrote:
>>
>>> Your original caps have 30 years of hand applied gentle polishing.  
>>> See how these new ones look in 30 years. ;)
>>>
>>> James R. Coplin
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
>>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of James Dunn
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:47 AM
>>> To: Csaba Zvekan
>>> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Anglian Art ARP 2600 sliders and caps
>>>
>>> Yes, I bought these replacement caps for my 2600 a few months ago,
>>> although I seem to remember they were a bit more expensive then - more
>>> like ?45 for ten! They're pretty good though. They fit well, the only
>>> criticism would be that they have a slightly rougher matt finish. The
>>> original ones on my 2600 have a more gloss finish.
>>>
>>> Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>>>> Hi Group ,
>>>>
>>>> I found some interesting sliders and caps for my ARP2600 on ebay. Does
>>>> anybody knows this guy Anglian Art ? Any experience with the seller?
>>>>
>>>> here is what I would be interested in.
>>>>
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ARP-2600-slider-caps-NEW-STOCK-qty-of-10_W0QQitemZ310102047370QQihZ021QQcategoryZ38071QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Csaba
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Thu Dec 18 13:47:13 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:47:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electronics Parts Search
In-Reply-To: <77b741f40812170640m18312cccmbfbb6634cc0db83a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49417CB6.1080307@xs4all.nl>	<49A0BB0F-C3B6-4F1D-9069-7C791FD636DD@electricdruid.net>	<7771FA48-F584-41C0-B527-BF32B63C9E11@imag.fr>	<20081212120912.GB22322@aym.net2.nerim.net>	<4942D002.9040605@burnit.co.uk>
	<77b741f40812170640m18312cccmbfbb6634cc0db83a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <494A4651.1000509@burnit.co.uk>

Doctroid wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:56 PM, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>   
>> As I was taking a few moments to search around my usual suppliers, I felt
>> there had to be a quicker way to do this sort of thing.  So a quick bit of
>> coding later ...
>>
>> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/part_search.php
>>
>> It's kind of UK oriented, but I'm happy to add more suppliers if someone
>> sends me the relevant search URL (i.e. the full search URL to which I can
>> just append a search term).
>>
>> Seb
>>
>> P.S. The CA3046 seems quite widely available.
>>     
>
> Am I using it wrong? I search on "CA3046", checking off "US", and I
> get 9 tabs of which 7 say nothing found, 1 (the Farnell tab) doesn't
> even show a search, just a table of links to Farnell distributors
> (none in the US), and 1 (Nikko) shows the part available.  Not my idea
> of "widely available"!
>   

I did notice that at least one supplier cares if you put trailing 
whitespace - Futurlec returns no hits for "CA3046 " for example.  I've 
added a trim function now, so try again.

The following places stock it:
CPC
Cricklewood
Futurlec
Nikko
Mouser (stock the NTE912 equivalent)
Newark (drop ship, 10 day lead time)

Out of these, only CPC is UK only.  I would call that quite widely 
available.

Not sure what's going on with searches on "export.farnell.com" - it 
worked the other day.  I've now removed it from the US tabs as I think 
there are better places to order from in US.

Seb





From tu at alphalink.com.au  Thu Dec 18 13:55:59 2008
From: tu at alphalink.com.au (tu at alphalink.com.au)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:55:59 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] JDR Microdevices
Message-ID: <1229604959.494a485faeafa@webmail.chariot.com.au>

Has anyone purchased online from JDR Microdevices (www.jdr.com) before? Did you have any 
issues dealing with them?

I placed an order on the weekend and was allocated an order number. But since then there has 
been no contact from them and my credit card does not seems to have been debited. 

I tried emailing them a couple of times but have so far received no reply. I guess I could try calling 
them but I am outside the USA. 

I have not encountered this sort of behaviour from suppliers like Mouser and Digikey etc before so 
I am a little surprised.

/Tristan



From flight at flightofharmony.com  Thu Dec 18 15:03:17 2008
From: flight at flightofharmony.com (flightofharmony)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 06:03:17 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Joystick group buy
Message-ID: <002601c96119$60b3e9d0$221bbd70$@com>

Hello all,

Just in case I forgot anyone - or someone new wants in - I found a supplier
that has the old-style 100k large joysticks almost 
exactly like in the picture on Muffwiggler. the only difference is the knob
which is cylindrical, 6mm round by 17mm long. 

Picture here: http://www.flightofharmony.com/images/stuff/jstick2.jpg
$10.00 each. I want to get these before someone else does and we're over
halfway there. Anyone interested, let me know!

Best regards, 

~flight
flight at flightofharmony.com
http://www.flightofharmony.com





From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Dec 18 18:04:02 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 10:04:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
Message-ID: <200812181804.mBII42CK032491@linux7.lan>

One more thing I should mention - the PSoC only translates from USB to a serial line
connected to the FPGA, there may be a UART internal to the PSoC to do this, but you still
need to put a UART in the FPGA design to interface with the Tx and Rx pins coming from
the PSoC.

Sorry this is a tad off topic since this specific project is not SDIY, but I think this
USB-UART bridge can be a good thing for synth projects done on the board.  I use a serial
connection from my workstation to the FPGA boards I work with (for synths) to send patch
data without having to deal with MIDI under Windows (I have _no_ clue how that is done).

Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>On Dec 18, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
>> Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks Scott for the info,
>>>
>>> Do you have some updated pages or notes we can print out . So we can
>>> attach it to the User guides pdf or something.
>>> I guess I could print out this mail , right :)  hmmm ok.
>>
>> That works.  I was frustrated waiting for the PIC board for my  
>> infrared project, so I
>> started developing on the Avnet board just to get it working.  I  
>> read through the docs
>> and it looked easy to get serial data in/out via USB through the  
>> UART bridge - but it
>> wouldn't work!  As you know, I'm making a single bit sampler and I  
>> needed to resample
>> all the buttons at a slower sample rate, but I needed to get the  
>> data into my
>> workstation.  Finally, I found some posts on the Avnet forum for the  
>> board and others
>> had discovered the reversed pins.  I discovered the bad pin labeling  
>> myself, ISE
>> complained about pin P22 not existing and refused to compile.  Then  
>> I went to the
>> schematic which showed A3 and B3 for the pins, but they were  
>> reversed.  I figured it
>> was another error in the docs, so I looked at the forum where I  
>> found out about the
>> reversed pins.  Once I fixed that, it worked like a champ, no setup  
>> or config, it seems
>> automagically capable of 115.2 Kbaud...
>All right , Scott . Let us/me know how you ported your project to the  
>PIC-board . And how it turned out . We hope you can record your  
>digitally broadcasted TV-series without any hassle pretty soon. :)
>I don't mean to bore anybody but I was pretty busy myself . I have  
>redrawn /designed Xilinx's Parallel Cable Programmer. This programmer   
>could be used for the AVNET Spartan 3A board with the 14 way 2.0mm  
>header. Leaving the USB and PSOC part for other use.
>Plus Windows XP users that upgraded to Service Pack 3 would not have  
>any trouble anymore. Since we don't use AVNET's programmer Software  
>instead Xilinx's IMPACT. :)
>Originally I intend to use this programmer for my home brew CPLD  
>development board (I'm still brewing). If anybody is interested in  
>what I just wrote contact me and /or I will send you the link to the  
>project.
>
>Csaba
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Csaba
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:45 AM, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>>>
>>>> music.maker at gte.net wrote:
>>>>> Anyone who has this board - a note about the USB-UART Bridge
>>>>> (which is useful for getting information to/from a PC), the pin
>>>>> information in the user guide PDF is wrong, there are no such
>>>>> pins on this particular FPGA. The schematic shows the correct
>>>>> pins, but because they are labeled from the PSoC perspective,
>>>>> they appear backwards from the FPGA perspective. I.e., the Rx pin
>>>>> is really the transmit data pin from the FPGA to the UART.
>>>>                                                     ^^^^ --- PSoC
>>>> not UART.
>>>>
>>>> Phhhht.
>>>>
>>>> -- ScottG
>>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>>>> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/ 
>>>> FPGA_synth/
>>>> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>>>> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>>>> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
>> -- ScottG
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/ 
>> FPGA_synth/
>> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From czvekan at gmail.com  Thu Dec 18 18:50:25 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:50:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
In-Reply-To: <200812181509.mBIF9aC8006844@linux7.lan>
References: <200812181509.mBIF9aC8006844@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <A45B093B-E295-49F1-B070-7A0E571C9A10@gmail.com>


On Dec 18, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks Scott for the info,
>>
>> Do you have some updated pages or notes we can print out . So we can
>> attach it to the User guides pdf or something.
>> I guess I could print out this mail , right :)  hmmm ok.
>
> That works.  I was frustrated waiting for the PIC board for my  
> infrared project, so I
> started developing on the Avnet board just to get it working.  I  
> read through the docs
> and it looked easy to get serial data in/out via USB through the  
> UART bridge - but it
> wouldn't work!  As you know, I'm making a single bit sampler and I  
> needed to resample
> all the buttons at a slower sample rate, but I needed to get the  
> data into my
> workstation.  Finally, I found some posts on the Avnet forum for the  
> board and others
> had discovered the reversed pins.  I discovered the bad pin labeling  
> myself, ISE
> complained about pin P22 not existing and refused to compile.  Then  
> I went to the
> schematic which showed A3 and B3 for the pins, but they were  
> reversed.  I figured it
> was another error in the docs, so I looked at the forum where I  
> found out about the
> reversed pins.  Once I fixed that, it worked like a champ, no setup  
> or config, it seems
> automagically capable of 115.2 Kbaud...
All right , Scott . Let us/me know how you ported your project to the  
PIC-board . And how it turned out . We hope you can record your  
digitally broadcasted TV-series without any hassle pretty soon. :)
I don't mean to bore anybody but I was pretty busy myself . I have  
redrawn /designed Xilinx's Parallel Cable Programmer. This programmer   
could be used for the AVNET Spartan 3A board with the 14 way 2.0mm  
header. Leaving the USB and PSOC part for other use.
Plus Windows XP users that upgraded to Service Pack 3 would not have  
any trouble anymore. Since we don't use AVNET's programmer Software  
instead Xilinx's IMPACT. :)
Originally I intend to use this programmer for my home brew CPLD  
development board (I'm still brewing). If anybody is interested in  
what I just wrote contact me and /or I will send you the link to the  
project.

Csaba



>
>
>>
>> Csaba
>>
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:45 AM, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>>
>>> music.maker at gte.net wrote:
>>>> Anyone who has this board - a note about the USB-UART Bridge
>>>> (which is useful for getting information to/from a PC), the pin
>>>> information in the user guide PDF is wrong, there are no such
>>>> pins on this particular FPGA. The schematic shows the correct
>>>> pins, but because they are labeled from the PSoC perspective,
>>>> they appear backwards from the FPGA perspective. I.e., the Rx pin
>>>> is really the transmit data pin from the FPGA to the UART.
>>>                                                     ^^^^ --- PSoC
>>> not UART.
>>>
>>> Phhhht.
>>>
>>> -- ScottG
>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>>> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/ 
>>> FPGA_synth/
>>> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>>> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>>> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
> -- ScottG
> ________________________________________________________________________
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/ 
> FPGA_synth/
> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>



From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Dec 18 19:29:21 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:29:21 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
Message-ID: <200812181929.mBIJTL7j012604@linux7.lan>

Eric Brombaugh <ebrombaugh1 at cox.net> wrote:
>Scott,
>
>Thanks for sharing your findings. Too bad that the FPGA-Synth list is so 
>inactive these days and no one posts FPGA-related stuff there any 
>longer. Seems like you and Jim Patchell are the only folks pushing this 
>forward lately, so I'm glad it gets some discussion on SDIY.

Jim was the one who turned me on to FPGAs.  He helped demystify them for me.  

In my opinion, an FPGA is a very optimal design environment for high performance, high
fidelity, high complexity musical synthesis.

I like to post here because you never know who it might inspire.

>>> Finally, I found some posts on the Avnet forum for the 
>>> board and others had discovered the reversed pins.
>
>Which Avnet forum are you looking at? I've been on the Google newsgroup 
>for the S3A board for the last few months and haven't seen any mention 
>of this:
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/avnet-spartan-3a-eval-kit
>
>Is there another discussion area I'm not aware of?

That's the correct forum.  I didn't find what I wanted in the thread list displayed,
so I searched with the search-this-group button.  Something like "USB UART", and I got
hits for older threads that weren't listed.  In those I found out about the reversed
naming of the pins.  So I had to actually try to do it, fail and then finally do just
the right search to find the solution.  Whew!  (c;

>
>Thanks,

Thank you Eric, you've been a huge help to me and my learning curve.

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu Dec 18 21:52:34 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:52:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
In-Reply-To: <200812181929.mBIJTL7j012604@linux7.lan>
References: <200812181929.mBIJTL7j012604@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <734C9902-796B-4DF7-BEC9-2420F2FDD265@electricdruid.net>


On 18 Dec 2008, at 18:29, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> I like to post here because you never know who it might inspire.

Don't know about anyone else, but FPGAs are definitely on my list of  
things to look into in the future.

> Thank you Eric, you've been a huge help to me and my learning curve.

Yeah, isn't he?! Big up to Eric B! He's helped me out no end.

T.

</christmasspirit>



From damsagain at free.fr  Thu Dec 18 22:11:41 2008
From: damsagain at free.fr (damsagain at free.fr)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:11:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <2DD67469-8B40-4578-AA36-E889CA6CD9EE@electricdruid.net>
References: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>
	<2DD67469-8B40-4578-AA36-E889CA6CD9EE@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <1229634701.494abc8d63147@imp.free.fr>

Hi everybody,

My english is very poor excuse me.

Tom, Ulrich, Yves, ASSI, Neil, Scott, Andre and Bob (hope I forgot nobody) I
would like to say thank you ! Thank you for your answers, for your advices, for
allowing me to make a choice... thank you !

It was my first post maybe not the last. I don't know. But I kown there is cool
people in this mailing list !

I decided it was not a good idea to buy the Siel given the DCO were missing...

So I always search a polyphonic and analogic syntheziser... Why not a Polysix so
?
It seems to be a really good machine, but quite expensive !
Maybe one day I would be lucky.
:)

Regards,
Damien




Selon Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>:

> Damian,
>
> There are Opera6 schematics available somewhere, 'cos I've got a
> copy. Furthermore, the quality is pretty good - way better than some
> of the unreadable rubbish you find online (JX3P?!).
>   It's one of the ones I've been looking at whilst thinking about DCOs.
> If you don't find it anywhere (or can't be bothered to look), I'll
> send it to you.
>
> To determine whether the synth is repairable, you'd need to know
> which ICs have been removed. The design has 8253 counter-based DCOs,
> followed by SSM2044 filter and SSM2024 quad VCA, controlled by a
> SSM2056 Envelope generator per voice. It's very similar to the Korg
> Polysix (except that had VCOs) or the Poly61.
>
> If someone thought the synth wasn't a viable repair, they might well
> have removed the valuable SSMs to sell. You could probably cover the
> cost of the synth like that. The SSM2044 filters are still available,
> but the envelope generators might be hard to find. Alternatively,
> find a dead Polysix (not hard - they die all the time) that hasn't
> been stripped and use that for parts.
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
> On 17 Dec 2008, at 13:17, damsagain at free.fr wrote:
>
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > I was searching a vintage Siel Opera 6 Analogic synthesizer when I
> > found an ad
> > about it but the seller said to me that I would have to restore it.
> > Indeed he told me that integrated circuits missed on his Opera 6.
> > So I have a question :
> > - Does Siel Opera 6 schematics exist ?
> > I search on the web but I found nothing.
> >
> > However I wonder :  Does it a good idea trying to fix that
> > synthesizer while I
> > don't really know why IC have been removed ?
> >
> > :-/
> > Thank you for your interest.
> > Best regards,
> > Damien
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
>
>
>




From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu Dec 18 22:34:33 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:34:33 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <1229634701.494abc8d63147@imp.free.fr>
References: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>	<2DD67469-8B40-4578-AA36-E889CA6CD9EE@electricdruid.net>
	<1229634701.494abc8d63147@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <494AC1E9.5080001@imt.net>

Polysix is a great choice for plucky, tweaky, spacy or pad sounds in 
particular I think.  The Opera 6/DK600 does really great ominous brass 
sounds like in Blade Runner intro, and also some interesting keyboard 
sounds and also interesting plucky sounds.  And some good sweeps.  The 
diversity of the Polysix is greater I think because of the vco's 
independence (Allowing portamento and unison mode) but also because of 
the arpeggiator and fx sections which are very cool.  But the DK600 has 
it's own realm and it is a great complimentary synth to other 
instruments. Both have real EG's and the same SSM2044 vcf's.  Oh and of 
course the DK600/opera6 have at least crude MIDI built in and more patch 
storage and crude velocity.  Very rough 3 or 4 bit..can't recall.  -Bob

damsagain at free.fr wrote:

>Hi everybody,
>
>My english is very poor excuse me.
>
>Tom, Ulrich, Yves, ASSI, Neil, Scott, Andre and Bob (hope I forgot nobody) I
>would like to say thank you ! Thank you for your answers, for your advices, for
>allowing me to make a choice... thank you !
>
>It was my first post maybe not the last. I don't know. But I kown there is cool
>people in this mailing list !
>
>I decided it was not a good idea to buy the Siel given the DCO were missing...
>
>So I always search a polyphonic and analogic syntheziser... Why not a Polysix so
>?
>It seems to be a really good machine, but quite expensive !
>Maybe one day I would be lucky.
>:)
>
>Regards,
>Damien
>
>
>
>
>Selon Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>:
>
>  
>
>>Damian,
>>
>>There are Opera6 schematics available somewhere, 'cos I've got a
>>copy. Furthermore, the quality is pretty good - way better than some
>>of the unreadable rubbish you find online (JX3P?!).
>>  It's one of the ones I've been looking at whilst thinking about DCOs.
>>If you don't find it anywhere (or can't be bothered to look), I'll
>>send it to you.
>>
>>To determine whether the synth is repairable, you'd need to know
>>which ICs have been removed. The design has 8253 counter-based DCOs,
>>followed by SSM2044 filter and SSM2024 quad VCA, controlled by a
>>SSM2056 Envelope generator per voice. It's very similar to the Korg
>>Polysix (except that had VCOs) or the Poly61.
>>
>>If someone thought the synth wasn't a viable repair, they might well
>>have removed the valuable SSMs to sell. You could probably cover the
>>cost of the synth like that. The SSM2044 filters are still available,
>>but the envelope generators might be hard to find. Alternatively,
>>find a dead Polysix (not hard - they die all the time) that hasn't
>>been stripped and use that for parts.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Tom
>>
>>On 17 Dec 2008, at 13:17, damsagain at free.fr wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hi everybody,
>>>
>>>I was searching a vintage Siel Opera 6 Analogic synthesizer when I
>>>found an ad
>>>about it but the seller said to me that I would have to restore it.
>>>Indeed he told me that integrated circuits missed on his Opera 6.
>>>So I have a question :
>>>- Does Siel Opera 6 schematics exist ?
>>>I search on the web but I found nothing.
>>>
>>>However I wonder :  Does it a good idea trying to fix that
>>>synthesizer while I
>>>don't really know why IC have been removed ?
>>>
>>>:-/
>>>Thank you for your interest.
>>>Best regards,
>>>Damien
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From lists at studionebula.com  Thu Dec 18 22:49:38 2008
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:49:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
In-Reply-To: <734C9902-796B-4DF7-BEC9-2420F2FDD265@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <006a01c9615a$86dfbad0$1102a8c0@Mariko>


> > I like to post here because you never know who it might inspire.
> 
> Don't know about anyone else, but FPGAs are definitely on my 
> list of things to look into in the future.

Me too. I'm not doing anything with them yet but I generally read every
FPGA-related posting on this list, and I'd very much like to mess with one
in the future. 

Coincidentally, there's a Xilinx facility a few miles from my house. Maybe I
should do some dumpster diving there. :-)

--Adam



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Fri Dec 19 10:34:41 2008
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:34:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Siel opera6 schematics
In-Reply-To: <1229634701.494abc8d63147@imp.free.fr>
References: <1229519864.4948fbf8c7b88@imp.free.fr>	<2DD67469-8B40-4578-AA36-E889CA6CD9EE@electricdruid.net>
	<1229634701.494abc8d63147@imp.free.fr>
Message-ID: <494B6AB1.10402@mnet-online.de>

Bonjour Damien

 > My english is very poor excuse me.
Tu parles bien meileur l'anglais que nous tous parlons francais ;-)


 > So I always search a polyphonic and analogic syntheziser... Why not
 > a Polysix so?
 > It seems to be a really good machine, but quite expensive !
A polysix is really nice sounding. Though it is limited by only one 
envelope and only one VCO per voice
If you want a musical instrument, then get the money and buy a restored 
Polysix.
If you want something to fiddle around on your workbench, which will 
make a sound some day ;-) then look for a broken polysix with the 
typical battery leakage problem. Either you will be able to repair the 
board, or you may do, what I am planning to do:
I want to use it without the programmer board. Simply only with manual 
setting. This requires to add some circuits that originally are located 
on the programmer board (CPU reset, LFO, some parts of the Envelope 
amount levels). After that I want to establish individual controls for 
the VCO parameters (and maybe even for the other parameters). I have a 
MonoPoly and I am a big fan of the arpeggiator with different VCO 
settings. To have this with polyphonic VCF and VCA settings would be great.

Florian


From synth1 at airmail.net  Fri Dec 19 16:30:11 2008
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:30:11 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
Message-ID: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>

For me, to me :)

Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!

http://www.transistor-clock.com/

The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.

Paul S.



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Fri Dec 19 16:46:27 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:46:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
Message-ID: <200812191646.27768.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Friday 19 December 2008, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> For me, to me :)
>
> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>
> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>
> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.

Sorry to nitpick, but for "all-discrete" you would have to replace the 
7-segment assemblies with 7 or 14 single LED. 
;-)


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptations for Waldorf Q V3.00R3 and Q+ V3.54R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada



From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Dec 19 16:56:13 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:56:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
Message-ID: <E69D26B4-F8D6-46BB-AE1A-5C85BA0C5345@electricdruid.net>

I looked all through the FAQs, but I couldn't find the answer to the  
most obvious question: WHY??!!

T.

PS: Happy soldering.


On 19 Dec 2008, at 15:30, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> For me, to me :)
>
> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>
> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>
> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
>
> Paul S.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From jmahoney at gate.net  Fri Dec 19 16:57:57 2008
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:57:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
Message-ID: <200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

At 10:30 AM 12/19/2008, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>For me, to me :)
>
>Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>
>http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>
>The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
>
>Paul S.

"Set the WABACK Machine for the pre-IC era, Sherman!" ;-D

But, man, when are you gonna find the time to build that thing?!

My dream clock has nixie tubes.

JM



From chris at chrismusic.de  Fri Dec 19 17:03:30 2008
From: chris at chrismusic.de (ChristianH)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:03:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <200812191646.27768.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<200812191646.27768.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <20081219170141.AEB2.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:46:27 +0100 ASSI <Stromeko at nexgo.de> wrote:

> On Friday 19 December 2008, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> > For me, to me :)
> >
> > Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
> >
> > http://www.transistor-clock.com/
> >
> > The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
> 
> Sorry to nitpick, but for "all-discrete" you would have to replace the 
> 7-segment assemblies with 7 or 14 single LED. 
> ;-)

LEDs? Forget that modern junk...

Christian



From synth1 at airmail.net  Fri Dec 19 17:22:32 2008
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:22:32 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley><200812191646.27768.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<20081219170141.AEB2.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <C36BDDE0E7BF4C40B2B3327FB1760E92@curley>

> 
> LEDs? Forget that modern junk...
> 


OK, here then:

http://www.nixieclock.net/pd1148559262.htm?categoryId=0

Paul S.



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Fri Dec 19 17:29:03 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:29:03 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
Message-ID: <C86217DC-307F-448D-8864-BB5C27B666EF@synth.net>

WHY?????

Sorry, but WHY?????

is it going to give you better quality time?

You could do that with a single IC....

Paul

On 19 Dec 2008, at 15:30, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> For me, to me :)
>
> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>
> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>
> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
>
> Paul S.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Fri Dec 19 17:32:05 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:32:05 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <D04611F3-08D2-4B8C-AF40-4094C699C6D2@synth.net>

John,

  my wife bought me one like this last year (different place, but same  
basic style kit)
http://www.store.tubeclock.com/index.php/nixie-tube-clocks/nixie-clock-kits

   The IN14 6 Tube Kit (without enclosure)...
Built it inside two hours, awesome kit :-)

Paul
	
On 19 Dec 2008, at 15:57, John Mahoney wrote:

> At 10:30 AM 12/19/2008, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>> For me, to me :)
>>
>> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>>
>> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>>
>> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
>>
>> Paul S.
>
> "Set the WABACK Machine for the pre-IC era, Sherman!" ;-D
>
> But, man, when are you gonna find the time to build that thing?!
>
> My dream clock has nixie tubes.
>
> JM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Fri Dec 19 18:04:34 2008
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:04:34 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <D04611F3-08D2-4B8C-AF40-4094C699C6D2@synth.net>
Message-ID: <345430.50790.qm@web26205.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I'd like an all-tube nixie clock; 400 triodes, 550 gas-rectifiers etc...


Karl


--- Den fre 2008-12-19 skrev Paul Maddox <paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net>:

> Fr?n: Paul Maddox <paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
> Till: "John Mahoney" <jmahoney at gate.net>
> Kopia: "synthdiy DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Datum: fredag 19 december 2008 17.32
> John,
> 
>   my wife bought me one like this last year (different
> place, but same  
> basic style kit)
> http://www.store.tubeclock.com/index.php/nixie-tube-clocks/nixie-clock-kits
> 
>    The IN14 6 Tube Kit (without enclosure)...
> Built it inside two hours, awesome kit :-)
> 
> Paul
> 	
> On 19 Dec 2008, at 15:57, John Mahoney wrote:
> 
> > At 10:30 AM 12/19/2008, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> >> For me, to me :)
> >>
> >> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
> >>
> >> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
> >>
> >> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
> >>
> >> Paul S.
> >
> > "Set the WABACK Machine for the pre-IC era,
> Sherman!" ;-D
> >
> > But, man, when are you gonna find the time to build
> that thing?!
> >
> > My dream clock has nixie tubes.
> >
> > JM
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014



From goldenechos at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 19 18:29:18 2008
From: goldenechos at hotmail.com (Anthony Rolando)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:29:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <C86217DC-307F-448D-8864-BB5C27B666EF@synth.net>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<C86217DC-307F-448D-8864-BB5C27B666EF@synth.net>
Message-ID: <BAY119-W43943C6A5B2C673055FA9BB6F00@phx.gbl>


IMPRESSIVE. Reminds of this old electronic piano I fixed. It made 2 different sounds, Piano soft and Piano loud. When I opened it I discovered Hundreds or maybe thousands of transistors, diodes and resistors. It appeared to have been hand soldered. I almost cried.

Tony

----------------------------------------
> From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:29:03 +0000
>
> WHY?????
>
> Sorry, but WHY?????
>
> is it going to give you better quality time?
>
> You could do that with a single IC....
>
> Paul
>
> On 19 Dec 2008, at 15:30, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>
>> For me, to me :)
>>
>> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>>
>> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>>
>> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
>>
>> Paul S.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass.
http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008


From julian at port23.co.uk  Fri Dec 19 18:32:06 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:32:06 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley><200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<D04611F3-08D2-4B8C-AF40-4094C699C6D2@synth.net>
Message-ID: <1ACC87A22BA6468DA27C6949F998F9A8@legba>

>>The IN14 6 Tube Kit (without enclosure)... Built it inside two hours, awesome kit :-)


Paul,

Ive eye'd up that kit before, so could i ask you -

How hot do the tubes run?

Why im asking is due to the mounting i was intending on using:

Years ago we had a coffee table made of bits of old breakers (railway sleepers initially, i think) that had been in the sea for 
years.

Id like to get a similar piece of driftwood, and mill out the bottom for the board, but have the tubes sticking out the top. 
However, as theyd be surrounded by wood (i meen actually pointing up through holes drilled in the wood, so you see nothing but 
driftwood and nixie tubes - no surround) i was concerned about the heat issue.

What do you think?

Julian 



From flight at flightofharmony.com  Fri Dec 19 18:58:13 2008
From: flight at flightofharmony.com (flightofharmony)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:58:13 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Joysticks group buy
Message-ID: <004c01c96203$5d29bc50$177d34f0$@com>

Several have asked, so here's a link to the datasheet:
http://www.flightofharmony.com/images/stuff/largeJoystick.pdf
These are the large, 90? swing joysticks with 16mm pots.

Best regards, 

~flight
flight at flightofharmony.com
http://www.flightofharmony.com






From rainer at buchty.net  Fri Dec 19 20:22:08 2008
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:22:08 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <345430.50790.qm@web26205.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <345430.50790.qm@web26205.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812192021570.24364@archimobil>

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Karl Ekdahl wrote:

> I'd like an all-tube nixie clock; 400 triodes, 550 gas-rectifiers 
> etc...

Like this?

http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Bruegmann-Digital-Roehren-Clock/Digital-Roehrenuhr.htm

Rainer



From synth1 at airmail.net  Fri Dec 19 20:23:03 2008
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:23:03 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
References: <345430.50790.qm@web26205.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0812192021570.24364@archimobil>
Message-ID: <26205266A4D84D9390D147E1A7D4C10A@curley>

>
> Like this?
>
> http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Bruegmann-Digital-Roehren-Clock/Digital-Roehrenuhr.htm
>

I bow down to our all discrete, gas tube and Nixie overlords :)

Paul S.



From matt at smiffytech.com  Fri Dec 19 21:43:29 2008
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:13:29 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <494C0771.1040602@smiffytech.com>

Quoth John Mahoney at 2008-12-20 02:27...
> My dream clock has nixie tubes.

I've got some Nixie tubes which I have found to be unsuitable for clock 
duty due to their short working life (by design - about a year of 
continuous operation.)

Been thinking of putting them in the MIDI control surface that I'm 
designing - but driven by ICs.  Just looking at that clock with all 
those transistors makes my carpal tunnels flare up ;-)

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/
Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy


From gil_we at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 19 21:54:45 2008
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:54:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Which fuse for Oberheim DX, running on 230v ?...
Message-ID: <368172.19694.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I just found a DX and I noticed it has a 1.6A fuse in it,
while the reading inside says use a 0.5 Slow-Blow. The voltage selector
is at 115v though...

Trying to use a 0.5A Slow Blow and switching to 230v, it worked once,
but the second time I powered it on, the fuse has blown.

I guess there should be a different type of fuse used when using 230v instead of 115v, but couldn't find any documentation about it on the schematics... It just shows the selector placed on the 115v side, and writes "use a 0.5A slow blow"...

Any idea what should I use for 230v in this case ?

Thanks !


      


From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Fri Dec 19 23:18:39 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:18:39 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <E6822378C07743809EC1BC66AE4FC948@legba>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley><200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<D04611F3-08D2-4B8C-AF40-4094C699C6D2@synth.net>
	<1ACC87A22BA6468DA27C6949F998F9A8@legba>
	<75818758-E226-4237-B0E2-3EC00E2B99F5@synth.net>
	<E6822378C07743809EC1BC66AE4FC948@legba>
Message-ID: <C5C5666B-29CE-46E3-8227-817090F32F4C@synth.net>

Julian,

  mine came from somewhere in europe.
Just found the site, here's the one I built ;-
http://tubehobby.com/show_det.php?det=42

They're based in lithuania, quick delivery and a good price for a kit  
WITH tubes, I've seen kits for more than that without the tubes!

  Paul

On 19 Dec 2008, at 19:44, Julian wrote:

> Thanks Paul,
>
> Did you buy yours from a uk company, or did you have to import form  
> the states?
>
> Thanks, Julian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Maddox" <paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net>
> To: "Julian" <julian at port23.co.uk>
> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
>
>
> Julian,
>
> Mine's a different make, but the tubes are cold to the touch, maybe no
> more than body temperature. BUT, there is HV on the board as I found
> out :-) Not much, but enough to make me swear :-)
>
> I'd not be worried about wood or plastic for the case.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 19 Dec 2008, at 17:32, Julian wrote:
>
>>>> The IN14 6 Tube Kit (without enclosure)... Built it inside two
>>>> hours, awesome kit :-)
>>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Ive eye'd up that kit before, so could i ask you -
>>
>> How hot do the tubes run?
>>
>> Why im asking is due to the mounting i was intending on using:
>>
>> Years ago we had a coffee table made of bits of old breakers
>> (railway sleepers initially, i think) that had been in the sea for
>> years.
>>
>> Id like to get a similar piece of driftwood, and mill out the bottom
>> for the board, but have the tubes sticking out the top.
>> However, as theyd be surrounded by wood (i meen actually pointing up
>> through holes drilled in the wood, so you see nothing but
>> driftwood and nixie tubes - no surround) i was concerned about the
>> heat issue.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Julian
>>
>
>



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Fri Dec 19 23:21:27 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:21:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0812192021570.24364@archimobil>
References: <345430.50790.qm@web26205.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0812192021570.24364@archimobil>
Message-ID: <C852F3DF-0FFA-4F6E-A67F-04D9C0179E81@synth.net>

See, now THAT is hardcore!
never mind the trasnsistors!

Love this picture - http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Bruegmann-Digital-Roehren-Clock/pic030.jpg

On 19 Dec 2008, at 19:22, Rainer Buchty wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Karl Ekdahl wrote:
>
>> I'd like an all-tube nixie clock; 400 triodes, 550 gas-rectifiers  
>> etc...
>
> Like this?
>
> http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Bruegmann-Digital-Roehren-Clock/Digital-Roehrenuhr.htm
>
> Rainer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Fri Dec 19 23:22:55 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:22:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <494C0771.1040602@smiffytech.com>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<494C0771.1040602@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <929D179C-7F3C-454F-B295-97163B00B7A7@synth.net>

FWIW,

  The clock I have has a tube saver mode, so you can choose what times  
of day the tues are turned on and off.

  So I have it set to come on around 7pm, and go off around 11pm, i.e.  
the time of day I'm usually in my "electronics lab".

Paul

On 19 Dec 2008, at 20:43, Matthew Smith wrote:

> Quoth John Mahoney at 2008-12-20 02:27...
>> My dream clock has nixie tubes.
>
> I've got some Nixie tubes which I have found to be unsuitable for  
> clock duty due to their short working life (by design - about a year  
> of continuous operation.)
>
> Been thinking of putting them in the MIDI control surface that I'm  
> designing - but driven by ICs.  Just looking at that clock with all  
> those transistors makes my carpal tunnels flare up ;-)
>
> Cheers
>
> M
>
> -- 
> Matthew Smith
> Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
> Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/
> Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat Dec 20 00:08:26 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:08:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Subtle Chorus BOMs are online
Message-ID: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>

Hi,

I just finished the Bill Of Material lists for my Subtle Chorus project and 
put them online at
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/subtle_chorus/jh_subtle_chorus.html

Pre-ordered PCBs will be shipping, starting 1st week of January.
(Do not send any money before you get an invoice!)

JH. 



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Dec 20 00:54:43 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:54:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <E69D26B4-F8D6-46BB-AE1A-5C85BA0C5345@electricdruid.net>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<E69D26B4-F8D6-46BB-AE1A-5C85BA0C5345@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <494C3443.50908@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Tom Wiltshire skrev:
> I looked all through the FAQs, but I couldn't find the answer to the 
> most obvious question: WHY??!!

Isn't it obvious? Because...

OK, if you want the longer version... Because it can be made.

If it would be a propper retrace into memory lane it would be gazillion 
of small boards.

I would place some clear plastic in front of it, dusting it would be a 
great way to kill time.

Great gift to yourself. Last christmas I did something similar:
http://dutchtronix.com/ScopeClock.htm
Less soldering. I had a friend over that was in bad need of talking 
about is heart on love problems while I was soldering. Better than radio.

Cheers,
Magnus

> T.
> 
> PS: Happy soldering.
> 
> 
> On 19 Dec 2008, at 15:30, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> 
>> For me, to me :)
>>
>> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>>
>> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>>
>> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
>>
>> Paul S.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 20 00:59:21 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:59:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] VCF model/passband gain compensation
In-Reply-To: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W2754962B0F177E153C7A9B4F00@phx.gbl>


I'm working on a software model of a filter that I plan to build at
some point- the idea is to make a transistor ladder filter that can
output different filter types (HP, LP, BP, whatever) by combining the
outputs of multiple filter stages (as in the Oberheim Matrix 12,
Doepher A-107, Siel Mono..).  The point of the software model is to
first see how crazy I can reasonably make it (8 poles, multiple
feedback loops, audio injected at different stages?), and also to see
if I can get away with just using potentiometers to mix the signals
rather than switching between a series of pre-mixed filter types.




Since it's just a proof of concept, the model doesn't need to be
perfect, but only accurate enough to judge if it's a worthwhile
project.  I quickly put something together in Pure Data, and it more or
less does what it's supposed to do, but there's apparently a small
amount of latency in the feedback loop (between tabsend~ and
tabreceive~?) that results in decreased resonance at higher cutoff
frequencies.  I can "sort of" work around this by increasing the sample
rate, but I'd rather fix it so I can more accurately judge what it's
doing.  I know Pure Data really isn't meant for this sort of thing
(unless there's some specific way to do this that I'm not aware of).  I
can put something together in Matlab/Octave (would prefer Simulink but
I don't have it), but I would like to have something that I can hear
and adjust in realtime.  Is there better software to use for a sort of
"realtime IIR sandbox"?




One thing that quickly became evident in playing with this is that the
filter needs some sort of passband gain compensation, otherwise the
coefficients need to be re-adjusted when the resonance level is
changed.  It seems relatively common in SSM/CEM VCF chips, but I
haven't seen a schematic for it and don't really know what the "trick"
is.  Does it make the passband gain really constant, or does it only
vary less?




Sorry if this is too wordy and vague, but I think I'm verging on pretty
interesting territory.  I'm surprised that something so seemingly
exotic is actually pretty simple.

_________________________________________________________________
It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008


From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 20 01:19:49 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:19:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <C86217DC-307F-448D-8864-BB5C27B666EF@synth.net>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<C86217DC-307F-448D-8864-BB5C27B666EF@synth.net>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W40AD990D869F9BEED1F458B4F10@phx.gbl>


Discrete logic is so much warmer, don't you know that?


----------------------------------------
> From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:29:03 +0000
>
> WHY?????
>
> Sorry, but WHY?????
>
> is it going to give you better quality time?
>
> You could do that with a single IC....
>
> Paul
>
> On 19 Dec 2008, at 15:30, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>
>> For me, to me :)
>>
>> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>>
>> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>>
>> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
>>
>> Paul S.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008


From flight at flightofharmony.com  Sat Dec 20 02:11:26 2008
From: flight at flightofharmony.com (flightofharmony)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:11:26 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Joysticks - collection time
Message-ID: <005301c9623f$e200ba50$a6022ef0$@com>

This should be the last list intrusion - We did it!

We've reached the minimum, so I'm starting the collection. I don't really
have the time to do individual emails &postage lookup, so here's what you
need to do:
Each joystick is 1.7oz./48.11g.
Packaging will be between 1.5oz - 5oz.
You can calculate your postage by going to http://www.usps.com, go to
"Calculate postage", select your location & enter my details -
F.O.B.: I'll be shipping them from Seattle, Washington, 98115, USA
PayPal to my email below.

This way, everyone can get the shipping they want, and the record will be on
the PayPal receipt with your shipping address & I can just print the label
from the PayPal site.
They still have a couple hundred more, so if you're late to this or want to
change your numbers, jump in/feel free!

Thanks everyone, good job!

Best regards, 

~flight
flight at flightofharmony.com
http://www.flightofharmony.com





From mverbos at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 20 02:17:04 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:17:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
Message-ID: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>

Hi guys,

I once saw a tool for PCB assembly that was like a vice that held the  
PCBs, then folded a foam covered plate down over the component side  
and could be rotated so the solder side was then up. The parts were  
secured in place for soldering. Did I imagine this? I can't find it  
in any catalogs I look in. What would that be called? Where can I get  
one?

Otherwise, does anyone have any tips for speeding up the through hole  
assembly process. I get really annoyed when I stuff all the  
resistors, then have to hold the PCB sideways, hoping the resistors  
don't slip out while I'm soldering, only to have to go back through  
and heat up/push some of them down.

thanks,

Mark


From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Sat Dec 20 03:07:40 2008
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:07:40 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
References: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000601c96247$be1902c0$0301a8c0@OFFICE>

How about these items from RS Components : 546-354 and 549-527 or better 
still this from Farnell : 439-757

If you want a cheap but effective method then pop down to your local 
hardware store and get some reels of masking tape as used by painters. Place 
some components and then tear off a strip of tape and lay it across the 
components and firmly on to the pcb at either end. Flip the board over and 
solder one leg on each component. Flip back, carefully remove the tape and 
make sure everything is still flat to the board (more important with things 
like ICs and sockets). Flip over solder all remaining legs and hey presto. 
Repeat

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mark verbos" <mverbos at earthlink.net>
To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 12:17 PM
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?


> Hi guys,
>
> I once saw a tool for PCB assembly that was like a vice that held the 
> PCBs, then folded a foam covered plate down over the component side  and 
> could be rotated so the solder side was then up. The parts were  secured 
> in place for soldering. Did I imagine this? I can't find it  in any 
> catalogs I look in. What would that be called? Where can I get  one?
>
> Otherwise, does anyone have any tips for speeding up the through hole 
> assembly process. I get really annoyed when I stuff all the  resistors, 
> then have to hold the PCB sideways, hoping the resistors  don't slip out 
> while I'm soldering, only to have to go back through  and heat up/push 
> some of them down.
>
> thanks,
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From kalotony at videotron.ca  Sat Dec 20 04:12:39 2008
From: kalotony at videotron.ca (Tony K)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:12:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
References: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0KC500J6NNL8V6A0@VL-MH-MR002.ip.videotron.ca>

I remember a prototyping system out of Calgary Alberta, called 
"Electronics Network Designer", that used the
foam cover to hold the parts in place. The foam was segmented to 
handle the different component heights - just don't stick an 
electrolytic next to an i.c. , the latter would fall out when you 
flipped the system over.

Btw it was a breadboard, and you simply solder everything without 
going to a pcb; the actual board stock  was thin. Very clever,but 
costly and imperfect.

I think the company was called Platform Systems Inc.

it also spelled out END..cool..

Tony



At 08:17 PM 12/19/2008, mark verbos wrote:
>Hi guys,
>
>I once saw a tool for PCB assembly that was like a vice that held the
>PCBs, then folded a foam covered plate down over the component side
>and could be rotated so the solder side was then up. The parts were
>secured in place for soldering.





From tu at alphalink.com.au  Sat Dec 20 04:39:46 2008
From: tu at alphalink.com.au (tu at alphalink.com.au)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:39:46 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
Message-ID: <1229744386.494c69025af1b@webmail.chariot.com.au>

Hi Mark,

I believe its called a loading frame. 

We used to use these at a company I worked at for small production runs of hand soldered, 
through hole boards. If the production run was a bit higher then the loading frame was just used 
for inserting components and then the boards would be sent through the wave soldering machine. 

For hand soldering, the process basically goes that you insert the lowest components (such as 
resistors and diodes), clamp the foam down, flip it over and solder. Then you flip it back, remove 
the foam and load the next highest components (such as DIP ICs). You continue this until its all 
done. 

Because of the rails used to clamp the circuit boards in place you can load and solder many 
smaller boards at a time. This works best when the boards are identical as you can compare the 
boards side by side to check you loaded the same components on each. Another advantage is 
component pins can be precut to length because the foam is preventing then falling out when you 
flip it over to solder.

/Tristan


Saturday, December 20, 2008, 9:17:04 AM, you wrote:

mv> Hi guys,

mv> I once saw a tool for PCB assembly that was like a vice that held the
mv> PCBs, then folded a foam covered plate down over the component side  
mv> and could be rotated so the solder side was then up. The parts were  
mv> secured in place for soldering. Did I imagine this? I can't find it  
mv> in any catalogs I look in. What would that be called? Where can I get
mv> one?

mv> Otherwise, does anyone have any tips for speeding up the through hole
mv> assembly process. I get really annoyed when I stuff all the  
mv> resistors, then have to hold the PCB sideways, hoping the resistors  
mv> don't slip out while I'm soldering, only to have to go back through  
mv> and heat up/push some of them down.

mv> thanks,

mv> Mark
mv> _______________________________________________
mv> Synth-diy mailing list
mv> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
mv> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat Dec 20 04:49:07 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:49:07 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <0KC500J6NNL8V6A0@VL-MH-MR002.ip.videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <CA169B4ABA7E4C7794E73B22610F4B7F@ice9>


I've used two of these - one was from Farnell - and to be honest, I am
happier just putting a bit of foam rubber on top of the PCB, flipping it
over on the desk, and going for it.
It really wasn't as helpful as I thought, by the time you load it all up.
And if you put too many components in, the legs get in the way of each other
when you are soldering. So it wasn't a great saving.

One of the ideas that look better than they are, at least for me. Others are
very happy with it, though.

Paul Perry (Frostwave) Melbourne Australia



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 20 04:56:33 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:56:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <CA169B4ABA7E4C7794E73B22610F4B7F@ice9>
References: <CA169B4ABA7E4C7794E73B22610F4B7F@ice9>
Message-ID: <2A342A89-4BFA-4514-A615-4FB22C94EE9A@earthlink.net>

You guys are amazing. It's funny, it seems that the US has no need  
for these things as they're all coming from the UK.

Well, I've ordered the big one here...
http://www.newark.com/ideal-tek/pcsa-4/pcb-assembly-jig-esd/dp/34M7931



so I will know soon enough. :)
They say you can trim the resistor legs BEFORE you solder, so that  
should speed it up significantly.

Mark




On Dec 19, 2008, at 10:49 PM, Paul Perry wrote:

>
> I've used two of these - one was from Farnell - and to be honest, I am
> happier just putting a bit of foam rubber on top of the PCB,  
> flipping it
> over on the desk, and going for it.
> It really wasn't as helpful as I thought, by the time you load it  
> all up.
> And if you put too many components in, the legs get in the way of  
> each other
> when you are soldering. So it wasn't a great saving.
>
> One of the ideas that look better than they are, at least for me.  
> Others are
> very happy with it, though.
>
> Paul Perry (Frostwave) Melbourne Australia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat Dec 20 05:06:19 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:06:19 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <2A342A89-4BFA-4514-A615-4FB22C94EE9A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <91890ECABDC24B32A20E958F6939B975@ice9>

Well I confess I didn't think of trimming the legs before soldering -
though, unless I was very careful that would mean cutting each leg TWICE!
As for them coming from England, at least one of mine was manufactured in
Italy. Back in the 70s..

Paul Perry Melbourne Australia




From julian at port23.co.uk  Sat Dec 20 05:06:30 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 04:06:30 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
References: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
	<000601c96247$be1902c0$0301a8c0@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <64916EE8E17046D5830E20C9A55DD74C@legba>

>>How about these items from RS Components : 546-354 and 549-527 or better still this from Farnell : 439-757


Rapid, as ever, beats farnell's price -

http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/PCB-Equipment/Accessories/PCB-Assembly-jig/29481/kw/pcb

and offers a smaller, cheaper option (farnell probable does also, just havent checked)


I have one almost the same as the larger one.  They cost a lot (slightly less for mine, as i bought it used off ebay) but i 
personally find it *so* usefull that its cost has been repaid many times in man hours saved.

That said, they are best if youre doing the same board over and over, as then stuffing time becomes diminished, and the speed gains 
of the tool come through much greater.

As Paul said thought, you have to right poke about when soldering.  I go from one corner, bending the leads out of the way with the 
iron as i go, and then trim each session (by compnent size as usual) at the end.

Next on the shopping list is one of those pre-forming devices, but theyre lots of money again : (  (thatlld solve a lot of the 
lead - forrest issue, and take out the trimming stage on most components too)

Julian



From julian at port23.co.uk  Sat Dec 20 05:12:46 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 04:12:46 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
References: <CA169B4ABA7E4C7794E73B22610F4B7F@ice9>
	<2A342A89-4BFA-4514-A615-4FB22C94EE9A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0D448A65214C4C3C8F9FF86F0C18259D@legba>

>>Well, I've ordered the big one here...http://www.newark.com/ideal-tek/pcsa-4/pcb-assembly-jig-esd/dp/34M7931

That's the exact one i have.

Be warned, the design is slightly odd, in that it has bits sticking out the bottom, for mounting.  Without removing these, you have 
to use it on the edge of a table (which is generally fine, as thats where you want to use it)  Its just a bit odd is all...

Pro's and con's though over the rapid/farnell one - the red one you can hold the boards vertical when trimming, and all the rubbish 
falls into the tray below.

Work out some way to affix a fan to the edge too, to suck or blow away the fumes from the iron.  Makes life more pleasent : )

Julian 



From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Sat Dec 20 05:16:21 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:16:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <2A342A89-4BFA-4514-A615-4FB22C94EE9A@earthlink.net>
References: <CA169B4ABA7E4C7794E73B22610F4B7F@ice9>
	<2A342A89-4BFA-4514-A615-4FB22C94EE9A@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812192016j2b3db91ai1a5d669c950c8ffb@mail.gmail.com>

I kind of surprised at the problems people have soldering in
components.  I usually cut the long leads shorter before even
inserting them into the PCB.  You can cut a bunch of leads at once if
you do it before hand.  Then after inserting the components, I just
push the leads out by about 45 degrees to hold them in place.  Then I
just flip the board over and place it on a thick folded up towel for
soldering.  After that, I cut the leads down to PCB level.  Never had
a problem doing it that way.

-Elhardt


From mverbos at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 20 05:25:43 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:25:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812192016j2b3db91ai1a5d669c950c8ffb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA169B4ABA7E4C7794E73B22610F4B7F@ice9>
	<2A342A89-4BFA-4514-A615-4FB22C94EE9A@earthlink.net>
	<d384bef90812192016j2b3db91ai1a5d669c950c8ffb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17D9B57F-29F1-4286-A7AF-0E63DB559BCD@earthlink.net>

In this case we're talking about assembling the same PCB 20 times. In  
that case it becomes incredibly tiresome flipping the board back and  
forth. With a set-up like we;re talking about here, it's possible to  
stuff all the resistors at once, then flip it and solder all of them.  
This should eliminate a significant anxiety I have about doing lots  
of the same design. It also will be a boon for my giant PCBs I am  
stuffing lately, some of them 16" x 6".

Mark




On Dec 19, 2008, at 11:16 PM, Ken Elhardt wrote:

> I kind of surprised at the problems people have soldering in
> components.  I usually cut the long leads shorter before even
> inserting them into the PCB.  You can cut a bunch of leads at once if
> you do it before hand.  Then after inserting the components, I just
> push the leads out by about 45 degrees to hold them in place.  Then I
> just flip the board over and place it on a thick folded up towel for
> soldering.  After that, I cut the leads down to PCB level.  Never had
> a problem doing it that way.
>
> -Elhardt
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 20 05:27:33 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:27:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
References: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D211B9E9-2FA0-4B2D-94F7-2106F12D3827@earthlink.net>

I just noticed the illiterate subject on this thread I started. Sorry  
about the typo.


:/




On Dec 19, 2008, at 8:17 PM, mark verbos wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> I once saw a tool for PCB assembly that was like a vice that held  
> the PCBs, then folded a foam covered plate down over the component  
> side and could be rotated so the solder side was then up. The parts  
> were secured in place for soldering. Did I imagine this? I can't  
> find it in any catalogs I look in. What would that be called? Where  
> can I get one?
>
> Otherwise, does anyone have any tips for speeding up the through  
> hole assembly process. I get really annoyed when I stuff all the  
> resistors, then have to hold the PCB sideways, hoping the resistors  
> don't slip out while I'm soldering, only to have to go back through  
> and heat up/push some of them down.
>
> thanks,
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Sat Dec 20 06:26:09 2008
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:26:09 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<200812191557.mBJFvdis022417@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <494C81F1.5080703@ix.netcom.com>

Ok - WABACK machine set for the pre-IC era... [sine wave sweeps w lots 
of reverb] ...

Ahhhh... the HP9100a/b

http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/hp9100b.html
http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp9100.htm

Paul - the transistor clock is way cool! Thanks for sharing.

- Oren

John Mahoney wrote:
> At 10:30 AM 12/19/2008, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> 
>> For me, to me :)
>>
>> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>>
>> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>>
>> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
>>
>> Paul S.
> 
> 
> "Set the WABACK Machine for the pre-IC era, Sherman!" ;-D
> 
> But, man, when are you gonna find the time to build that thing?!
> 
> My dream clock has nixie tubes.
> 
> JM
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Sat Dec 20 07:35:35 2008
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:35:35 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
References: <91890ECABDC24B32A20E958F6939B975@ice9>
Message-ID: <002b01c9626e$1301a7d0$0301a8c0@OFFICE>

I wouldn't bother cutting the legs before soldering but this does mean being 
aware of the number of components fitted between each soldering stage so 
that you maximise accessibility.

The only way I would consider pre-cutting would be if I had one of those 
hand tools that forms and cuts. This would be a reasonably fast process and 
would then allow more components to be fitted between each phase.

My unit also came from Italy.

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
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Although this e-mail and its attachments have been scanned for the presence 
of computer viruses, Elby Designs will not be liable for any losses as a 
result of any viruses being passed on.

Please consider the environment before printing this email

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Perry" <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
To: <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?


> Well I confess I didn't think of trimming the legs before soldering -
> though, unless I was very careful that would mean cutting each leg TWICE!
> As for them coming from England, at least one of mine was manufactured in
> Italy. Back in the 70s..
>
> Paul Perry Melbourne Australia
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sat Dec 20 08:11:32 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 02:11:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Quiet/noisy grounds on Music Easel envelope generator
Message-ID: <221D1584-E337-4566-88B2-3700B688EFF4@ece.gatech.edu>

Howdy folks,

I'm working on getting the envelope generator for the Music Easel into  
Eagle for PCB goodness (yup, I plan to make this and other related  
PCBs available if and when I get them done and debugged):

http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2080_3_200.jpg

There's three digital chips in that circuit: A MC14001, an MC14025,  
and a MC14016 quad bilateral switch. There's a bunch of analog stuff,  
including some op amps and a LM3900 norton amp.

Like most Buchla designs, this schematic employs a "noisy ground" and  
a "quiet ground."

I'm guessing that I should power the three digital chips with +15 V  
and "noisy ground," and I should power the LM3900 with +15 V and  
"quiet ground." But, there's no specific mention of any of this on the  
data sheet.

Anyone see anything wrong with my plan?

(The MC14016 is a "digital" chip, but it is passing analog signals,  
which lead me to wondering...)

- Aaron


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sat Dec 20 08:15:15 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 02:15:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Quiet/noisy grounds on Music Easel envelope generator
In-Reply-To: <23294_1229757135_mBK7CCNA011854_221D1584-E337-4566-88B2-3700B688EFF4@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <23294_1229757135_mBK7CCNA011854_221D1584-E337-4566-88B2-3700B688EFF4@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <0F1FB192-F8E7-48D2-8C8A-DBE54C48C5B8@ece.gatech.edu>


On Dec 20, 2008, at 2:11 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

> I'm guessing that I should power the three digital chips with +15 V  
> and "noisy ground," and I should power the LM3900 with +15 V and  
> "quiet ground." But, there's no specific mention of any of this on  
> the data sheet.

Whoops, when I said "data sheet" I mean "schematic."

- Aaron


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Sat Dec 20 08:50:45 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:50:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
References: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20081220075045.GA5109@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-12-19 20:17 -0500, mark verbos wrote:

> Otherwise, does anyone have any tips for speeding up the through
> hole  assembly process. I get really annoyed when I stuff all
> the resistors, then have to hold the PCB sideways, hoping the
> resistors don't slip out while I'm soldering, only to have to go
> back through and heat up/push some of them down.

Press a piece of cardboard/wood/whatever against the resistor
bodies. Flip the board. Put it down on the bench, solder side up.
Solder the easily accessible leads. Cut them off. Repeat until all
leads are soldered.

Solder the lowest-profile components first. Everybody says
"resistors first". What they really mean, but for some reason,
don't write, is "straps first, DO-35 diodes second, 1/4 W
resistors third...".

An alternative is to bend the leads outwards after insertion so
the components don't fall off when you flip the PCB. It makes
desoldering a lot harder.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Sat Dec 20 09:01:02 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:01:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
References: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BE84FCDF-1239-48FF-B691-DA5AC9367829@synth.net>

Mark,

   you didn't imagine it, I've got one.
it was *ESSENTIAL* when building monowaves, rapid lists it as "PCB  
Assembly jig"
http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/PCB-Equipment/Accessories/PCB-Assembly-jig/29481/kw/pcb%20assembly
(watch for line wrap)

a bit pricey, but for the monowave with it's 1200 solder joints per  
board it was a life saver!

Paul

On 20 Dec 2008, at 01:17, mark verbos wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> I once saw a tool for PCB assembly that was like a vice that held  
> the PCBs, then folded a foam covered plate down over the component  
> side and could be rotated so the solder side was then up. The parts  
> were secured in place for soldering. Did I imagine this? I can't  
> find it in any catalogs I look in. What would that be called? Where  
> can I get one?
>
> Otherwise, does anyone have any tips for speeding up the through  
> hole assembly process. I get really annoyed when I stuff all the  
> resistors, then have to hold the PCB sideways, hoping the resistors  
> don't slip out while I'm soldering, only to have to go back through  
> and heat up/push some of them down.
>
> thanks,
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat Dec 20 09:16:15 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:16:15 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <BE84FCDF-1239-48FF-B691-DA5AC9367829@synth.net>
Message-ID: <8876F8B6725D4BD4AB800298DC054C15@ice9>


I think it is fair to say that anyone with any "mad DIY skillz" at all, can
build one (or a similar device) very cheaply.

Paul perry Melbourne Australia



From marr at lumin.us  Sat Dec 20 12:31:59 2008
From: marr at lumin.us (Mark Rivera)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:31:59 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <BE84FCDF-1239-48FF-B691-DA5AC9367829@synth.net>
References: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
	<BE84FCDF-1239-48FF-B691-DA5AC9367829@synth.net>
Message-ID: <494CD7AF.8050200@lumin.us>


How heat resistant is the foam backing on these?


> you didn't imagine it, I've got one.
> it was *ESSENTIAL* when building monowaves, rapid lists it as "PCB 
> Assembly jig"
> http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/PCB-Equipment/Accessories/PCB-Assembly-jig/29481/kw/pcb%20assembly 

>> I once saw a tool for PCB assembly that was like a vice that held the 
>> PCBs, then folded a foam covered plate down over the component side 
>> and could be rotated so the solder side was then up. The parts were 
>> secured in place for soldering. Did I imagine this? I can't find it in 
>> any catalogs I look in. What would that be called? Where can I get one?



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Sat Dec 20 12:50:21 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:50:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <494CD7AF.8050200@lumin.us>
References: <3F6F8E66-8E5C-4C5D-898D-1492F3CB4B9C@earthlink.net>
	<BE84FCDF-1239-48FF-B691-DA5AC9367829@synth.net>
	<494CD7AF.8050200@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <47C86274-F363-4028-950E-886ABABC555B@synth.net>

Mark,

  Well mine is still the horrible 'pink' colour it was when it  
arrived, no  burn marks I can see.

Paul

On 20 Dec 2008, at 11:31, Mark Rivera wrote:

>
> How heat resistant is the foam backing on these?
>
>
>> you didn't imagine it, I've got one.
>> it was *ESSENTIAL* when building monowaves, rapid lists it as "PCB  
>> Assembly jig"
>> http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/PCB-Equipment/Accessories/PCB-Assembly-jig/29481/kw/pcb%20assembly
>
>>> I once saw a tool for PCB assembly that was like a vice that held  
>>> the PCBs, then folded a foam covered plate down over the component  
>>> side and could be rotated so the solder side was then up. The  
>>> parts were secured in place for soldering. Did I imagine this? I  
>>> can't find it in any catalogs I look in. What would that be  
>>> called? Where can I get one?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Sat Dec 20 13:21:59 2008
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:21:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812192016j2b3db91ai1a5d669c950c8ffb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA169B4ABA7E4C7794E73B22610F4B7F@ice9>	<2A342A89-4BFA-4514-A615-4FB22C94EE9A@earthlink.net>
	<d384bef90812192016j2b3db91ai1a5d669c950c8ffb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <494CE367.70805@bugbrand.co.uk>

On the subject of lead cutting -- you can get *reverse* side cutters 
which, if I'm getting it right, will give you a short bit of lead left 
after trimming (ie trimming before soldering)
Never tried this myself, but....
http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Hand-Tools/Pliers/Budget-reverse-side-cutters/30546

Ken Elhardt wrote:
> I kind of surprised at the problems people have soldering in
> components.  I usually cut the long leads shorter before even
> inserting them into the PCB.  You can cut a bunch of leads at once if
> you do it before hand.  Then after inserting the components, I just
> push the leads out by about 45 degrees to hold them in place.  Then I
> just flip the board over and place it on a thick folded up towel for
> soldering.  After that, I cut the leads down to PCB level.  Never had
> a problem doing it that way.
>
> -Elhardt
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1856 - Release Date: 12/18/2008 8:06 PM
>
>   



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 20 14:04:02 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:04:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Quiet/noisy grounds on Music Easel envelope generator
In-Reply-To: <221D1584-E337-4566-88B2-3700B688EFF4@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <221D1584-E337-4566-88B2-3700B688EFF4@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <B59F4846-B9AA-4D6D-94C1-D83B0536A5C9@earthlink.net>

Everything is powered from the Q ground with the exception of the LED  
stuff. In other words, the 2 places you see N on the schematic are  
the only places that N goes to. In reality, you would likely be fine  
just wiring all the grounds together.

Mark




On Dec 20, 2008, at 2:11 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

> Howdy folks,
>
> I'm working on getting the envelope generator for the Music Easel  
> into Eagle for PCB goodness (yup, I plan to make this and other  
> related PCBs available if and when I get them done and debugged):
>
> http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/ 
> Buchla_2080_3_200.jpg
>
> There's three digital chips in that circuit: A MC14001, an MC14025,  
> and a MC14016 quad bilateral switch. There's a bunch of analog  
> stuff, including some op amps and a LM3900 norton amp.
>
> Like most Buchla designs, this schematic employs a "noisy ground"  
> and a "quiet ground."
>
> I'm guessing that I should power the three digital chips with +15 V  
> and "noisy ground," and I should power the LM3900 with +15 V and  
> "quiet ground." But, there's no specific mention of any of this on  
> the data sheet.
>
> Anyone see anything wrong with my plan?
>
> (The MC14016 is a "digital" chip, but it is passing analog signals,  
> which lead me to wondering...)
>
> - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From martin at martinfay.com  Sat Dec 20 15:35:43 2008
From: martin at martinfay.com (Martin Fay)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:35:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] VCF model/passband gain compensation
In-Reply-To: <BLU143-W2754962B0F177E153C7A9B4F00@phx.gbl>
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
	<BLU143-W2754962B0F177E153C7A9B4F00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <494D02BF.3020808@martinfay.com>

Hi Scott,

I suspect Antti may pick this up, in his Moog filter model a simple FIR 
is used to introduce a ~1/2 sample delay in the feedback loop for phase 
correction. I've also successfully used an allpass filter in this role.

output = (thisInput + lastInput) * 0.5

(iirc from the top of my head)


Martin
> I'm working on a software model of a filter that I plan to build at
> some point- the idea is to make a transistor ladder filter that can
> output different filter types (HP, LP, BP, whatever) by combining the
> outputs of multiple filter stages (as in the Oberheim Matrix 12,
> Doepher A-107, Siel Mono..).  The point of the software model is to
> first see how crazy I can reasonably make it (8 poles, multiple
> feedback loops, audio injected at different stages?), and also to see
> if I can get away with just using potentiometers to mix the signals
> rather than switching between a series of pre-mixed filter types.
>
>
>
>
> Since it's just a proof of concept, the model doesn't need to be
> perfect, but only accurate enough to judge if it's a worthwhile
> project.  I quickly put something together in Pure Data, and it more or
> less does what it's supposed to do, but there's apparently a small
> amount of latency in the feedback loop (between tabsend~ and
> tabreceive~?) that results in decreased resonance at higher cutoff
> frequencies.  I can "sort of" work around this by increasing the sample
> rate, but I'd rather fix it so I can more accurately judge what it's
> doing.  I know Pure Data really isn't meant for this sort of thing
> (unless there's some specific way to do this that I'm not aware of).  I
> can put something together in Matlab/Octave (would prefer Simulink but
> I don't have it), but I would like to have something that I can hear
> and adjust in realtime.  Is there better software to use for a sort of
> "realtime IIR sandbox"?
>
>
>
>
> One thing that quickly became evident in playing with this is that the
> filter needs some sort of passband gain compensation, otherwise the
> coefficients need to be re-adjusted when the resonance level is
> changed.  It seems relatively common in SSM/CEM VCF chips, but I
> haven't seen a schematic for it and don't really know what the "trick"
> is.  Does it make the passband gain really constant, or does it only
> vary less?
>
>
>
>
> Sorry if this is too wordy and vague, but I think I'm verging on pretty
> interesting territory.  I'm surprised that something so seemingly
> exotic is actually pretty simple.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From xamboldt at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 20 17:11:58 2008
From: xamboldt at earthlink.net (xamboldt)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:11:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Lexicon Prime Time Schematic?
Message-ID: <B87C222E-DA3C-42C4-ABDE-D853AE887E8C@earthlink.net>

I recently came across a broken one of these, an old digital delay  
from Lexicon (the first Prime Time, model 93). OK, it's not a synth,  
but it has a CV input and an internal VCO, so it's close enough. :)

Does anyone have a schematic or service manual for this thing, or know  
where I can get one? Upon opening it, the most apparent thing wrong is  
that it's missing one IC, U22. There also may be a card missing, but  
without the schematic/service manual, I'm can't tell if that's just a  
spot for memory expansion.

Thanks for any help you can provide,
Chris


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Dec 20 20:02:43 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:02:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Quiet/noisy grounds on Music Easel envelope generator
In-Reply-To: <221D1584-E337-4566-88B2-3700B688EFF4@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <221D1584-E337-4566-88B2-3700B688EFF4@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <494D4153.7070005@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Aaron Lanterman skrev:
> Howdy folks,
> 
> I'm working on getting the envelope generator for the Music Easel into 
> Eagle for PCB goodness (yup, I plan to make this and other related PCBs 
> available if and when I get them done and debugged):
> 
> http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2080_3_200.jpg 
> 
> 
> There's three digital chips in that circuit: A MC14001, an MC14025, and 
> a MC14016 quad bilateral switch. There's a bunch of analog stuff, 
> including some op amps and a LM3900 norton amp.
> 
> Like most Buchla designs, this schematic employs a "noisy ground" and a 
> "quiet ground."
> 
> I'm guessing that I should power the three digital chips with +15 V and 
> "noisy ground," and I should power the LM3900 with +15 V and "quiet 
> ground." But, there's no specific mention of any of this on the data sheet.
> 
> Anyone see anything wrong with my plan?

That you haven't executed it. It sound design.

> (The MC14016 is a "digital" chip, but it is passing analog signals, 
> which lead me to wondering...)

You don't want the inverters within the 4016 to disturb the analog side, 
but you don't want to let the other digital circuits polute too much 
either. I assume you use decoupling caps which can swallow the impulses. 
fairly efficiently. Recall that the slew-rate of the impulses is what 
eats you. Some of them have repetions rates of the oscillators, so the 
frequency of impulses is audio-frequency.

Cheers,
Magnus


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Sat Dec 20 20:57:57 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:57:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
Message-ID: <20081220195757.GB5109@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-12-19 09:30 -0600, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> http://www.transistor-clock.com/

Well, if a part dies in 2050, your grandchildren shouldn't have
too much trouble sourcing a replacement.

No quartz, preset or variable capacitor to be seen. How precise is
it ?

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From synth1 at airmail.net  Sat Dec 20 21:33:36 2008
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:33:36 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<20081220195757.GB5109@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <DD731ED263894727A8ADC38DE6D80F2D@curley>

Counts AC line frequency.

Paul S.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andre Majorel" <aym-htnys at teaser.fr>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift


On 2008-12-19 09:30 -0600, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> http://www.transistor-clock.com/

Well, if a part dies in 2050, your grandchildren shouldn't have
too much trouble sourcing a replacement.

No quartz, preset or variable capacitor to be seen. How precise is
it ?

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Sat Dec 20 21:40:26 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:40:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <20081220195757.GB5109@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
	<20081220195757.GB5109@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <1A242AE9-17DA-481C-BADD-E54333111741@synth.net>

Andre,

   True, but it may take them the next decade to find the faulty  
part :-)

Paul

On 20 Dec 2008, at 19:57, Andre Majorel wrote:

> On 2008-12-19 09:30 -0600, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>
>> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>
> Well, if a part dies in 2050, your grandchildren shouldn't have
> too much trouble sourcing a replacement.
>
> No quartz, preset or variable capacitor to be seen. How precise is
> it ?
>
> -- 
> Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Dec 20 22:17:31 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:17:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <DD731ED263894727A8ADC38DE6D80F2D@curley>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>	<20081220195757.GB5109@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<DD731ED263894727A8ADC38DE6D80F2D@curley>
Message-ID: <494D60EB.1080800@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Paul Schreiber skrev:
> Counts AC line frequency.

Not much worse than many other clocks. I have a frequency counter that 
does the same, but mine has the crystal option which is a 100 kc/s 
oscillator (kept it in original language). That counter is in the 
pre-Nixie generation. :)

I really like the phantastron circuit. As I recall it, the division 
between net frequency to 10 Hz and 1 Hz only takes up 3 tubes. To 
support 50 Hz and 60 Hz they provided a trimmer at the back of the 
counter. When using the 100 kc/s oscillator, this is tuned to properly 
divide 100 Hz instead. The 100 kc/s oscillator option includes a 
oscillator core and a division by 1000 using three phantastron circuits 
in series.

Phantastron circuits should be possible to achieve in transistors designs.

Cheers,
Magnus


From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Sun Dec 21 00:05:17 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:05:17 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] VCF model/passband gain compensation
In-Reply-To: <494D02BF.3020808@martinfay.com>
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
	<BLU143-W2754962B0F177E153C7A9B4F00@phx.gbl>
	<494D02BF.3020808@martinfay.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812210058230.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008, Martin Fay wrote:

> I suspect Antti may pick this up, in his Moog filter model a simple FIR is 
> used to introduce a ~1/2 sample delay in the feedback loop for phase 
> correction. I've also successfully used an allpass filter in this role.

I changed to the Stilson & Smith "Compromise" version some four years ago 
(see http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~stilti/papers/Welcome.html).

The basic idea is to add a two tap FIR filter between each stage. This 
gives more constant resonance and higher max cutoff. For four stages the 
solution works remarkably well. It should work or higher number of stages 
too, but you will need to find the FIR coefficients with some iterative 
search. For four stages they are [1/1.3 0.3/1.3].

I've put some pseudocode here: http://users.tkk.fi/~ajhuovil/moog.txt

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun Dec 21 01:45:57 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:45:57 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] What's is this tool called?
In-Reply-To: <494CD7AF.8050200@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <09997D271A014D47972CD49F928F1D7C@ice9>



-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Mark Rivera
How heat resistant is the foam backing on these?

Not at all heat resistant so far as I can tell.
On one of mine (which I got from a company going broke)
an idiot had melted his name into the foam with a soldering iron.

I replaced the foam with standard furniture foam, worked just as well.

Paul Perry Melbourne Australia







From mverbos at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 21 02:01:47 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:01:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] TB-303 digital part?
Message-ID: <0264E611-3A7A-4D44-A12C-083D2C41399F@earthlink.net>

Hi there,

Does anyone have the digital portion of the TB-303 schematics? I must  
have had it at some point, since I replaced RAM in one once, but I  
can't find it now. All over the net it seems to just be the analog  
section!

thanks,

Mark


From mverbos at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 21 02:04:11 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:04:11 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] TB-303 BTW
Message-ID: <5A53348D-E35B-4955-982F-DE074FACEE83@earthlink.net>

While on the subject of TB-303s...

I have one here that my buddy wants to have variable slide time on. I  
looked at the schematic and it looks like the DtoA and the slide are  
sharing an opamp. Has anyone done this and figured a solution?

Thanks!

Mark


From colin at colinfraser.com  Sun Dec 21 02:18:14 2008
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:18:14 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] TB-303 BTW
In-Reply-To: <5A53348D-E35B-4955-982F-DE074FACEE83@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2A9BBBFF37D04502B17FB6A8484C8270@zen2>

 
> While on the subject of TB-303s...
> 
> I have one here that my buddy wants to have variable slide 
> time on. I  
> looked at the schematic and it looks like the DtoA and the slide are  
> sharing an opamp. Has anyone done this and figured a solution?

The 303 slide is a simple RC lag circuit.
The 'R' is the output impedance of the R-2R DAC.
An analog switch puts the capacitor either at the input or the output of the
op-amp that buffers the DAC resistor chain.
If the cap is at the input, you get slide as the cap has to charge through
the DAC resistance.
If the cap is after the op-amp you get no slide, and the voltage on the cap
is maintained at the current note CV so it's at the right starting point
when the slide is turned on.
If you want variable slide, you could fix the cap after the buffer amp, but
fed via a variable resistor.
Then re-wire the analogue switch to bypass the variable resistor when the
slide is off.
Should be possible with a couple of track cuts and fly-wires.

Cheers,
Colin f




From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Sun Dec 21 03:09:41 2008
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:09:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Odd ground loop?
In-Reply-To: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <005001c96311$313d13d0$93b73b70$@net>

Hi all,

First, I solved this problem, but don't understand why what I did fixed it.

Simply, I have a midi interface (MOTU Midi Timepiece, (MTP)), a firewire
mixer (MOTU 828 MKIII), a Moog Voyager Rack mount, an old Kawai K1, a midi
controller keyboard, and various modules (still in process of building).

Assume all are connected to the same power conditioner (yes I tried this).

When I connect the audio out of the K1 to the 828, and the Midi out of the
K1 to the Midi channel 1 in of the MTP, I get a bizarre clicking and low
frequency noise (not a hum, weird noise) in the audio. Disconnecting either
the Midi or the audio from the K1 fixes it. Connecting the Midi out of the
K1 to channel 2 on the MTP fixes it. 

The same thing happens for the Moog so I don't think it's the K1. For the
Moog, it happens if I use the balanced or unbalanced audio outputs, too.

Now, if the midi out from the midi controller goes into the MTP on channel
1, no problem and I can connect the K1 and Moog to any other input on the
MTP. No noise.

Like I said, I fixed it simply by hooking the controller to channel 1 and
the K1 and Moog to other channels and that works fine. I would just like to
understand it better.

Any thoughts? Is it a bad ground connection on channel 1 inside the MTP? Or
is it actually the way the grounds are connected internally on the MTP? Or
something completely different?

Thanks,

David


David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net





From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Sun Dec 21 11:04:46 2008
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:04:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
Message-ID: <900669.64009.qm@web56807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

One thing that interested/disappointed me about this discrete design is that it is done with lots of 2 transistor divide-by-2 flip-flops with diode and/ors to extract the decimal from the binary.  I was hoping to see ring-of-5 type circuits or similar, to save a transistor or two like they probably would have done in 1970.

Cheers,
Nicolas


--- On Sun, 21/12/08, Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:

From: Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
To: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1 at airmail.net>
Cc: "Andre Majorel" <aym-htnys at teaser.fr>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Received: Sunday, 21 December, 2008, 10:17 AM

Paul Schreiber skrev:
> Counts AC line frequency.

Not much worse than many other clocks. I have a frequency counter that does the same, but mine has the crystal option which is a 100 kc/s oscillator (kept it in original language). That counter is in the pre-Nixie generation. :)

I really like the phantastron circuit. As I recall it, the division between net frequency to 10 Hz and 1 Hz only takes up 3 tubes. To support 50 Hz and 60 Hz they provided a trimmer at the back of the counter. When using the 100 kc/s oscillator, this is tuned to properly divide 100 Hz instead. The 100 kc/s oscillator option includes a oscillator core and a division by 1000 using three phantastron circuits in series.

Phantastron circuits should be possible to achieve in transistors designs.

Cheers,
Magnus
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



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From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Dec 21 14:45:32 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:45:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Odd ground loop?
In-Reply-To: <005001c96311$313d13d0$93b73b70$@net>
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
	<005001c96311$313d13d0$93b73b70$@net>
Message-ID: <494E487C.6080608@burnit.co.uk>

Make sure also there is no connection in the cable to the metal DIN plug 
shell (you are using a proper MIDI cable, right?).  The cable shield 
should only connect to pin 2 (the middle pin), not to the plug shell.  
See here:
http://www.philrees.co.uk/midiplug.htm

If this is ok then maybe your MTP breaks MIDI spec by connecting the 
ground at the MIDI input.  Try making/modifying a MIDI cable with ground 
pin 2 disconnected at the input end.

Seb




David Ingebretsen wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> First, I solved this problem, but don't understand why what I did fixed it.
>
> Simply, I have a midi interface (MOTU Midi Timepiece, (MTP)), a firewire
> mixer (MOTU 828 MKIII), a Moog Voyager Rack mount, an old Kawai K1, a midi
> controller keyboard, and various modules (still in process of building).
>
> Assume all are connected to the same power conditioner (yes I tried this).
>
> When I connect the audio out of the K1 to the 828, and the Midi out of the
> K1 to the Midi channel 1 in of the MTP, I get a bizarre clicking and low
> frequency noise (not a hum, weird noise) in the audio. Disconnecting either
> the Midi or the audio from the K1 fixes it. Connecting the Midi out of the
> K1 to channel 2 on the MTP fixes it. 
>
> The same thing happens for the Moog so I don't think it's the K1. For the
> Moog, it happens if I use the balanced or unbalanced audio outputs, too.
>
> Now, if the midi out from the midi controller goes into the MTP on channel
> 1, no problem and I can connect the K1 and Moog to any other input on the
> MTP. No noise.
>
> Like I said, I fixed it simply by hooking the controller to channel 1 and
> the K1 and Moog to other channels and that works fine. I would just like to
> understand it better.
>
> Any thoughts? Is it a bad ground connection on channel 1 inside the MTP? Or
> is it actually the way the grounds are connected internally on the MTP? Or
> something completely different?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
> David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
> Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
> 2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
> Salt Lake City, UT 84121
>
> 801 733-5458 Office
> 801 842-5451 Cell
>
> dingebre at CFandE.com
> dingebre at 3dphysics.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>   




From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Sun Dec 21 15:21:01 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:21:01 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] GorF
Message-ID: <F44B259A-575A-44CF-A51A-71F20CAFE7E4@synth.net>

Guys (and gals),

  I've uploaded a new video for GorF ;-
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R9Qju-Rc1pE

  There is a slight glitch when you save a sequence, alas I can't  
resolve this as when you when you're writing to EEPROM the interrupts  
on the micro need to be disabled, so everything stops for a split  
second.

  Next step is PCB design, I'll then be selling a few kits.

Paul




From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 21 15:31:19 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:31:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] favorite databooks?
Message-ID: <BAY144-W12D1DF1AD2E7EFBFF14CEEC8EE0@phx.gbl>


So, now that i have bought up a lot of the electronics books that appeal to me...I am starting to enjoy buying databooks and application note collections.

i was wondering if there are any really good ones to look out for? ( i got the National Linear Book part 1)

Thanks




From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Sun Dec 21 16:07:18 2008
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:07:18 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
Message-ID: <000001c9637d$d13c1f90$73b45eb0$@com>

I'd like to modify my polysynth design to use active temperature
compensation by making the VCO's output a temperature reference voltage that
has a TC of 3300ppm/c.  This would then be used to derive the DAC reference
voltage in order to compensate for the VCO exponential converter temperature
drift.  I would like to do this by using a MAT04 quad matched pair or
LM3046, using two transistors to make the exponential converter and somehow
use the others to generate a voltage proportional to Vt.  Does anyone have
any ideas?  The CEM3374 had this arrangement and it was successfully
employed in the Oberheim XPander and Matrix 12.  Regards, George



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Sun Dec 21 16:35:27 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:35:27 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] favorite databooks?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W12D1DF1AD2E7EFBFF14CEEC8EE0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W12D1DF1AD2E7EFBFF14CEEC8EE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20081221153231.M92902@wowway.com>

NAtional Semiconductor "Audio" is really good if a bit old

I like RCA "COSMOS Integrated Circuits Manual" CMS-272
It has lots of tricks you can do with 4000 series CMOS
(Still one on the best DIY logic families IMHO)

H^) harry



On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:31:19 +0000, Dan Snazelle wrote
> So, now that i have bought up a lot of the electronics books that 
> appeal to me...I am starting to enjoy buying databooks and 
> application note collections.
> 
> i was wondering if there are any really good ones to look out for? ( 
> i got the National Linear Book part 1)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Sun Dec 21 16:38:24 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:38:24 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Odd ground loop?
In-Reply-To: <494E487C.6080608@burnit.co.uk>
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
	<005001c96311$313d13d0$93b73b70$@net>
	<494E487C.6080608@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20081221153721.M34339@wowway.com>

I had a MIDI box that had the 5V regulator tab tied to the chassis...
that made for a unique ground loop as well. A mica washer fixed the problem
neatly.

H^) harry




On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:45:32 +0000, Seb Francis wrote
> Make sure also there is no connection in the cable to the metal DIN 
> plug shell (you are using a proper MIDI cable, right?).  The cable 
> shield should only connect to pin 2 (the middle pin), not to the 
> plug shell.  See here: http://www.philrees.co.uk/midiplug.htm
> 
> If this is ok then maybe your MTP breaks MIDI spec by connecting the 
> ground at the MIDI input.  Try making/modifying a MIDI cable with 
> ground pin 2 disconnected at the input end.
> 
> Seb
> 
> David Ingebretsen wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > First, I solved this problem, but don't understand why what I did fixed it.
> >
> > Simply, I have a midi interface (MOTU Midi Timepiece, (MTP)), a firewire
> > mixer (MOTU 828 MKIII), a Moog Voyager Rack mount, an old Kawai K1, a midi
> > controller keyboard, and various modules (still in process of building).
> >
> > Assume all are connected to the same power conditioner (yes I tried this).
> >
> > When I connect the audio out of the K1 to the 828, and the Midi out of the
> > K1 to the Midi channel 1 in of the MTP, I get a bizarre clicking and low
> > frequency noise (not a hum, weird noise) in the audio. Disconnecting either
> > the Midi or the audio from the K1 fixes it. Connecting the Midi out of the
> > K1 to channel 2 on the MTP fixes it. 
> >
> > The same thing happens for the Moog so I don't think it's the K1. For the
> > Moog, it happens if I use the balanced or unbalanced audio outputs, too.
> >
> > Now, if the midi out from the midi controller goes into the MTP on channel
> > 1, no problem and I can connect the K1 and Moog to any other input on the
> > MTP. No noise.
> >
> > Like I said, I fixed it simply by hooking the controller to channel 1 and
> > the K1 and Moog to other channels and that works fine. I would just like to
> > understand it better.
> >
> > Any thoughts? Is it a bad ground connection on channel 1 inside the MTP? Or
> > is it actually the way the grounds are connected internally on the MTP? Or
> > something completely different?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> > David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
> > Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
> > 2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
> > Salt Lake City, UT 84121
> >
> > 801 733-5458 Office
> > 801 842-5451 Cell
> >
> > dingebre at CFandE.com
> > dingebre at 3dphysics.net
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Sun Dec 21 16:41:34 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:41:34 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] 1/x circuit ?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812210058230.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
	<BLU143-W2754962B0F177E153C7A9B4F00@phx.gbl>
	<494D02BF.3020808@martinfay.com>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812210058230.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20081221153916.M73477@wowway.com>

I'm looking for a 1/x circuit. I know about the
two transistor and opamp "log-ratio converter" that would work...
and of course any multiplier could be used as a divider.

Any other techniques, preferably simple ?

H^) harry


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Dec 21 17:17:52 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:17:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 1/x circuit ?
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent><BLU143-W2754962B0F177E153C7A9B4F00@phx.gbl><494D02BF.3020808@martinfay.com><alpine.SOC.1.99.0812210058230.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<20081221153916.M73477@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <DBEC421277044CE6BBFEEAD69A7B2806@jhsilent>

This probably falls into the log ratio category, but as it's so extremely 
simple (one CA3046 plus one opamp), I'll point to it again nvertheless:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/tau/jh_tau_sch_page3_control.pdf

(Not my idea - taken from the original Tau circuit - the part around U5A)

JH.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <harrybissell at wowway.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 4:41 PM
Subject: [sdiy] 1/x circuit ?


I'm looking for a 1/x circuit. I know about the
two transistor and opamp "log-ratio converter" that would work...
and of course any multiplier could be used as a divider.

Any other techniques, preferably simple ?

H^) harry


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Sun Dec 21 17:21:04 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:21:04 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] 1/x circuit ?
In-Reply-To: <6135_1229874217_ZZ0KC8004D7H0OP6.00_20081221153916.M73477@wowway.com>
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
	<BLU143-W2754962B0F177E153C7A9B4F00@phx.gbl>
	<494D02BF.3020808@martinfay.com>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812210058230.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<6135_1229874217_ZZ0KC8004D7H0OP6.00_20081221153916.M73477@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812211820060.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008, harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:

> I'm looking for a 1/x circuit. I know about the
> two transistor and opamp "log-ratio converter" that would work...
> and of course any multiplier could be used as a divider.
>
> Any other techniques, preferably simple ?

Stuff your circuitry inside a feedback loop?
IIRC, this was used in more than a few NE572 based companders.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Sun Dec 21 19:20:58 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:20:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
Message-ID: <19402.213.84.181.38.1229883658.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>

Jim Patchell has some real nice documentation on his VCO that uses this
approach: http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodules/vco.html


George Hearn schreef:
> I'd like to modify my polysynth design to use active temperature
> compensation by making the VCO's output a temperature reference voltage
> that
> has a TC of 3300ppm/c.  This would then be used to derive the DAC
> reference
> voltage in order to compensate for the VCO exponential converter
> temperature
> drift.  I would like to do this by using a MAT04 quad matched pair or
> LM3046, using two transistors to make the exponential converter and
> somehow
> use the others to generate a voltage proportional to Vt.  Does anyone have
> any ideas?  The CEM3374 had this arrangement and it was successfully
> employed in the Oberheim XPander and Matrix 12.  Regards, George
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From luis.marka at terra.com.br  Sun Dec 21 21:31:56 2008
From: luis.marka at terra.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs_Marka?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:31:56 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <19402.213.84.181.38.1229883658.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
References: <19402.213.84.181.38.1229883658.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <494EA7BC.1000304@terra.com.br>

By the way, I see Jim has 2 versions of this VCO: one uses a MAT04 as 
the matched transistor array, while the other uses a CA3046. Is there 
any difference in performance between these? The CA3046 is much easier 
to find (at least, where I live...)

Luis Marka

Simon Brouwer wrote:
> Jim Patchell has some real nice documentation on his VCO that uses this
> approach: http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodules/vco.html
>
>
> George Hearn schreef:
>   
>> I'd like to modify my polysynth design to use active temperature
>> compensation by making the VCO's output a temperature reference voltage
>> that
>> has a TC of 3300ppm/c.  This would then be used to derive the DAC
>> reference
>> voltage in order to compensate for the VCO exponential converter
>> temperature
>> drift.  I would like to do this by using a MAT04 quad matched pair or
>> LM3046, using two transistors to make the exponential converter and
>> somehow
>> use the others to generate a voltage proportional to Vt.  Does anyone have
>> any ideas?  The CEM3374 had this arrangement and it was successfully
>> employed in the Oberheim XPander and Matrix 12.  Regards, George
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>   


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sun Dec 21 22:40:41 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:40:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] A "KISS" to all of you for the season..
Message-ID: <494EB7D9.2010602@imt.net>

You are going to split a guy if you haven't seen this..actually..I think 
it's funnier every time I watch if for some reason.  That's unusual for 
me.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw5oJoUYTb8&feature=channel_page 
should contain a video 'Kiss Shreds'

This is absolutely one of the funniest music overdub things I've ever 
seen I think.


From patchell at cox.net  Sun Dec 21 22:44:44 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:44:44 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <494EA7BC.1000304@terra.com.br>
References: <19402.213.84.181.38.1229883658.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<494EA7BC.1000304@terra.com.br>
Message-ID: <494EB8CC.7080802@cox.net>

As far as temperature compensation goes, there is no difference between 
the MAT04 and the CA3046.  There is a difference in tuning accuracy. 
With the MAT04, I can tune over 8 octaves with +/- 1 cent accuracy, and 
with the CA3046 I get +/- 1 cent over 7 octaves.

I haven't checked any of the oscillators lately, but they have also 
maintained their tuning very well over a long period of time.  What I 
like best about them is that I can build stable oscillators with low 
cost components.

-Jim

Lu?s Marka wrote:
> By the way, I see Jim has 2 versions of this VCO: one uses a MAT04 as 
> the matched transistor array, while the other uses a CA3046. Is there 
> any difference in performance between these? The CA3046 is much easier 
> to find (at least, where I live...)
> 
> Luis Marka
> 
> Simon Brouwer wrote:
>> Jim Patchell has some real nice documentation on his VCO that uses this
>> approach: http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodules/vco.html
>>
>>
>> George Hearn schreef:
>>  
>>> I'd like to modify my polysynth design to use active temperature
>>> compensation by making the VCO's output a temperature reference voltage
>>> that
>>> has a TC of 3300ppm/c.  This would then be used to derive the DAC
>>> reference
>>> voltage in order to compensate for the VCO exponential converter
>>> temperature
>>> drift.  I would like to do this by using a MAT04 quad matched pair or
>>> LM3046, using two transistors to make the exponential converter and
>>> somehow
>>> use the others to generate a voltage proportional to Vt.  Does anyone 
>>> have
>>> any ideas?  The CEM3374 had this arrangement and it was successfully
>>> employed in the Oberheim XPander and Matrix 12.  Regards, George
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>
>>
>>   
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From matt at smiffytech.com  Sun Dec 21 23:10:46 2008
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:40:46 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] favorite databooks?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W12D1DF1AD2E7EFBFF14CEEC8EE0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W12D1DF1AD2E7EFBFF14CEEC8EE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <494EBEE6.7000900@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Dan Snazelle at 2008-12-22 01:01...
> So, now that i have bought up a lot of the electronics books that appeal to me...I am starting to enjoy buying databooks and application note collections.
> 
> i was wondering if there are any really good ones to look out for? ( i got the National Linear Book part 1)

Linear Technology "Linear Applications Handbook".  There are three 
volumes.  Really good if you want to work with switching power supplies.

I am told that these are extremely hard to come by.  I ordered one from 
Linear and was contacted by their distributor saying something like 
"you'll be lucky".  Everyone wants them and they are as rare as 
rocking-horse poo (supposedly.)  The distributor told me that the books 
were wonderful and wished me luck.  However, about three months after my 
request, they turned up, all three volumes.  Great stuff.



-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/
Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Mon Dec 22 00:55:58 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 23:55:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: SV: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <000001c9637d$d13c1f90$73b45eb0$@com>
Message-ID: <226582.41883.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi George!

The CEM 3374 concept, yes, Xpander, Polaris and OBMx etc.

Mat04 are waste of money in analog polys, all
scaling should be done by the MCU, the simplest
would be to sense the -Vbe point of the expo
then create a scaler routine that takes that
voltage wich are directly temp dependant of the
expo into a tuning offset, lets say at the rate
pitch/temp change. However that would ruin the
Lin FM.
Or just sense one of the trannys in the LM3046
and maintain the Lin FM possibility!
Or place a Tempco on each array and sense that!
Or use Rene S multiplier solution, i.e CEm3340,
but that eats two arrays, one for each VCO!
Or just heat upp the expos!

What about the questions i had for you earlier on George? ;-)

Reg
KD


--- Den s?n 2008-12-21 skrev George Hearn <georgehearn at btinternet.com>:

> Fr?n: George Hearn <georgehearn at btinternet.com>
> ?mne: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
> Till: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Datum: s?ndag 21 december 2008 19.37
> I'd like to modify my polysynth design to use active
> temperature
> compensation by making the VCO's output a temperature
> reference voltage that
> has a TC of 3300ppm/c.  This would then be used to derive
> the DAC reference
> voltage in order to compensate for the VCO exponential
> converter temperature
> drift.  I would like to do this by using a MAT04 quad
> matched pair or
> LM3046, using two transistors to make the exponential
> converter and somehow
> use the others to generate a voltage proportional to Vt. 
> Does anyone have
> any ideas?  The CEM3374 had this arrangement and it was
> successfully
> employed in the Oberheim XPander and Matrix 12.  Regards,
> George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 22 09:00:21 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:00:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] VCF model/passband gain compensation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812210058230.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <2E9784299D46415CB37CFF64E0BB22DB@jhsilent>
	<BLU143-W2754962B0F177E153C7A9B4F00@phx.gbl>
	<494D02BF.3020808@martinfay.com>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812210058230.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W423A698CC125C27CCCB355B4EF0@phx.gbl>


Since I am only aiming for a half-assed model, it doesn't have to be perfect (probably won't include the tanh distortion), but it's certainly welcome, at least for educational purposes.  There's no  better way to understand/appreciate something than to actually make it.  I am familiar enough with DSP, root locus, IIR filters, etc. to follow along and understand what's going on, but the complexities of specific implementations still elude me.  I'm glad to know at least that my understanding was correct about using oversampling.

I still need information though about passband gain compensation, as I don't see any way for the "multi-mode transfer function from lowpass filter" thing to work without it.


----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:05:17 +0200
> From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi
> To: martin at martinfay.com
> CC: gsn10 at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] VCF model/passband gain compensation
>
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008, Martin Fay wrote:
>
>> I suspect Antti may pick this up, in his Moog filter model a simple FIR is
>> used to introduce a ~1/2 sample delay in the feedback loop for phase
>> correction. I've also successfully used an allpass filter in this role.
>
> I changed to the Stilson & Smith "Compromise" version some four years ago
> (see http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~stilti/papers/Welcome.html).
>
> The basic idea is to add a two tap FIR filter between each stage. This
> gives more constant resonance and higher max cutoff. For four stages the
> solution works remarkably well. It should work or higher number of stages
> too, but you will need to find the FIR coefficients with some iterative
> search. For four stages they are [1/1.3 0.3/1.3].
>
> I've put some pseudocode here: http://users.tkk.fi/~ajhuovil/moog.txt
>
> Antti
>
> "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
> -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova

_________________________________________________________________
It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008


From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Mon Dec 22 12:10:05 2008
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:10:05 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <226582.41883.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <000001c9637d$d13c1f90$73b45eb0$@com>
	<226582.41883.qm@web27608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001601c96425$d80b5a40$88220ec0$@com>

Yes Jims design is very clever!  I won't be performing the compensation
locally in each oscillator though, the temp sense voltages from each
oscillator would be multiplexed into the DAC reference voltage to provide
the scaling.  Tempco resistors simply aren't accurate enough and not being
on the transistor die they are not instant enough either, and heating up the
expo pair is a bit crude and creates a problem of extended warm up time
after power on.  I think sensing the -Vbe point of the exponential converter
pair was a good idea put forward.  If this were inverted and amplified this
would have exactly the right Vt dependence however this voltage may not be
clean enough and may vary slightly as the input to the exponential converter
(base voltage) is modulated and the opamp tries to compensate, I would have
to see.  Better I think would be to use a spare transistor on the same die
of the expo pair, though I'm not quite sure which way to go with this.
Perhaps just a constant current through a diode connected transistor would
give me the desired vbe drop proportional to Vt? Vbe=vt*log (Id/Is).
However, doesn't 'Is' have a temperature dependence too?  

-----Original Message-----
From: karl dalen [mailto:dalenkarl at yahoo.se] 
Sent: 21 December 2008 23:56
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; George Hearn
Subject: SV: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation

Hi George!

The CEM 3374 concept, yes, Xpander, Polaris and OBMx etc.

Mat04 are waste of money in analog polys, all
scaling should be done by the MCU, the simplest
would be to sense the -Vbe point of the expo
then create a scaler routine that takes that
voltage wich are directly temp dependant of the
expo into a tuning offset, lets say at the rate
pitch/temp change. However that would ruin the
Lin FM.
Or just sense one of the trannys in the LM3046
and maintain the Lin FM possibility!
Or place a Tempco on each array and sense that!
Or use Rene S multiplier solution, i.e CEm3340,
but that eats two arrays, one for each VCO!
Or just heat upp the expos!

What about the questions i had for you earlier on George? ;-)

Reg
KD


--- Den s?n 2008-12-21 skrev George Hearn <georgehearn at btinternet.com>:

> Fr?n: George Hearn <georgehearn at btinternet.com>
> ?mne: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
> Till: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Datum: s?ndag 21 december 2008 19.37
> I'd like to modify my polysynth design to use active
> temperature
> compensation by making the VCO's output a temperature
> reference voltage that
> has a TC of 3300ppm/c.  This would then be used to derive
> the DAC reference
> voltage in order to compensate for the VCO exponential
> converter temperature
> drift.  I would like to do this by using a MAT04 quad
> matched pair or
> LM3046, using two transistors to make the exponential
> converter and somehow
> use the others to generate a voltage proportional to Vt. 
> Does anyone have
> any ideas?  The CEM3374 had this arrangement and it was
> successfully
> employed in the Oberheim XPander and Matrix 12.  Regards,
> George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon Dec 22 12:43:00 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:43:00 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <001601c96425$d80b5a40$88220ec0$@com>
Message-ID: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>

The more people talk about temperature compensation, the more I feel like
keeping the whole damn thing in a temperature controlled oven...

paul perry Melbourne Australia (not entirely joking)



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Mon Dec 22 13:11:13 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:11:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
Message-ID: <494F83E1.9020704@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Paul Perry skrev:
> The more people talk about temperature compensation, the more I feel like
> keeping the whole damn thing in a temperature controlled oven...
> 
> paul perry Melbourne Australia (not entirely joking)

ua726 ? :)

Why not make it a double oven? Achieving mK stability is possible. What 
is tricker is to ensure that there is no temperature gradients, but 
using temperature gradient compensated pairs like MAT-01 should help of 
course. A good voltage reference will also help. However, ovenizing 
comes at a cost and Jim's approach is better in this context.

Wish I had one of those to test out.

Cheers,
Magnus


From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Mon Dec 22 14:46:17 2008
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:46:17 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Testing a power supply
In-Reply-To: <494F83E1.9020704@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<494F83E1.9020704@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <494F9A29.4070108@bugbrand.co.uk>

Hiya,

I just wondered whether anyone can recommend a tutorial or similar to 
cover thorough testing of a linear PSU (based on LM317 / LM337)
- basically, putting it through its paces and recording performance values.

I know how to hook up a dummy load using power resistors, but can't 
think of much beyond that other than temperature -- what should I be 
focusing on?

Any help much appreciated!
Cheers,
Tom




From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Dec 22 15:00:34 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:00:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
Message-ID: <808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>


On 22 Dec 2008, at 11:43, Paul Perry wrote:

> The more people talk about temperature compensation, the more I  
> feel like
> keeping the whole damn thing in a temperature controlled oven...
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia (not entirely joking)

The more people talk about temperature compensation, the more I think  
I need to build a DCO like the Prophet 08. Then I *can* have a proper  
analogue ramp wave with no aliasing *and* digital frequency stability.

After all, I haven't heard anyone slating the Prophet for not being  
analogue enough, or sounding "weak" or "thin" or any of the other  
rubbish people used to say about DCOs, when generally they were  
talking about synths that only had one master clock source and one  
oscillator per voice.

I've tried going the whole hog, but I have to say that I'm not yet  
entirely convinced by my wavetable oscillators. To really remove the  
aliasing completely is difficult and finishes up using up so many  
processor cycles that you can't do any of the interesting stuff.  
Ultimately, though, I think that has to be the way to go. We can't go  
on building sophisticated synths that have an incredible selection of  
**three** or (wow!) **four** basic waveforms!! Where's the sonic  
variety in that?!

T. 



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Mon Dec 22 15:02:27 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:02:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Testing a power supply
In-Reply-To: <494F9A29.4070108@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	<494F83E1.9020704@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<494F9A29.4070108@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <494F9DF3.1000901@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Tom Bugs skrev:
> Hiya,
> 
> I just wondered whether anyone can recommend a tutorial or similar to 
> cover thorough testing of a linear PSU (based on LM317 / LM337)
> - basically, putting it through its paces and recording performance values.
> 
> I know how to hook up a dummy load using power resistors, but can't 
> think of much beyond that other than temperature -- what should I be 
> focusing on?
> 
> Any help much appreciated!

Variation of input voltage (usually power line voltage), check min, mean 
and max values.
Variation of load - check stability! (lack of oscillation)
Check over-current limitation and recovery from overcurrent (fuse or 
ducking, which ever is used).

A peculiar issue may be that certain impedances may cause it to 
oscillate unless due care is taken. Measuring source impedance can be 
interesting. As you load/unload the regulator, check for oscillations on 
scope.

Read up on power supplies in TAOE and you will realize what types of 
tests you would like to do.

Cheers,
Magnus


From jluciani at gmail.com  Mon Dec 22 15:24:17 2008
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:24:17 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Testing a power supply
In-Reply-To: <494F9A29.4070108@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<494F83E1.9020704@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<494F9A29.4070108@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <608bfe540812220624v7fa202u535f8584514c4a50@mail.gmail.com>

How involved to you want to get?

I would replace the dummy resistors with an active load
(see the active load schematic at http://tinyurl.com/6cbn6h)
This will allow you to easliy test under different loading conditions.
It is a very simple circuit.

The basic tests would be

  Line regulation which defines how a change in input voltage produces
  a change in output voltage

  Load regulation which defines how a change in output load produces
  a change in output voltage.

  Efficiency which is the ratio of output power to input power
  This can be difficult to measure with high accuracy.

  Output ripple AC component of the output voltage

You could also add dymanic tests and fault testing. Power supplies usually
have over-current and over-voltage fault modes that you test.

For a switching supply a basic test sequence would be ---

   Low Line, Max Load   (highest operating frequency)
   High Line,  Min Load  (lowest operating frequency)
   Nominal Line, Nominal Load
   Efficiency (nominal line, nominal load)
   Output ripple

For a linear supply I would add High Line, Max Load which would
produce the maximum heating in the linear regulator.

You could also perform the basic tests at different ambient temperatures.

(* jcl *)

-- 
http://www.luciani.org


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Dec 22 16:08:10 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:08:10 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
>
> I've tried going the whole hog, but I have to say that I'm not yet 
> entirely convinced by my wavetable oscillators. To really remove the 
> aliasing completely is difficult and finishes up using up so many 
> processor cycles that you can't do any of the interesting stuff.

I'm curious, what approach are you using to get 'alias free' 
oscillators?  Simply using a much higher internal sampling rate and then 
a low pass FIR filter?  Or something more sophisticated than this.  
Which is the part that is burning most of the processor cycles?

Seb





From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Dec 22 16:10:56 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:10:56 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
Message-ID: <200812221610.mBMGAt33027793@linux7.lan>

Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:
>Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've tried going the whole hog, but I have to say that I'm not yet 
>> entirely convinced by my wavetable oscillators. To really remove the 
>> aliasing completely is difficult and finishes up using up so many 
>> processor cycles that you can't do any of the interesting stuff.
>
>I'm curious, what approach are you using to get 'alias free' 
>oscillators?  Simply using a much higher internal sampling rate and then 
>a low pass FIR filter?  Or something more sophisticated than this.  
>Which is the part that is burning most of the processor cycles?

Ah - alias artifacts, one of my favorite subject.

Alias free - in quotes, that's quite appropriate because it is mathematically
impossible to remove all alias artifacts from a signal which is made up of an infinite
series of sinewave harmonics.  Whether you can hear them is what is important.  The
techniques that can be used produce various amounts of alias artifacts, I've tried a
_few_.  

[A] In terms of simplicity, a very high sample rate can give good results.  My GateMan
monosynths all run at 1.0 MHz sample rate.  Amplitudes of harmonics of audible tones
are very weak above 500 KHz.  While I've never noticed alias artifacts in these
synths, they are there, moreso for higher pitches, but music tends to limit pitches
well below the top of the hearing range anyway.  

[B] I've experimented with band limited wave tables also.  The experiment was with
just one table.  This method produces no alias artifacts because they were never
generated in the first place.  Such a signal is composed of, in fact, a _finite_
series of sinewave harmonics.  So this is sort of cheating.  Because my experiment
used only one table which was generated to deal with the highest pitch the synth could
play, all notes played are alias artifact free - the downside is that lower tones
become more and more lackluster as pitch is lowered.  Multiple tables can be used for
different ranges of pitch to deal with this.  More tables means more complexity and
more RAM usage.

[C] Recently, I experimented with a technique which includes generating arbitrary
shaped waveforms naively at a sample rate many times higher than the DAC rate.  The
signal is passed through a brickwall filter, FIR in my case, and then decimated to put
the pitch in the correct range.  My FIR filter had 511 taps.  Alias artifacts were
inaudible (to my ears) up to fundamentals of about 5 KHz.  Near the end of the range,
I noticed some small inconsistency in output amplitude as frequency is changed.

There are still several other methods I've not played with yet.

As for performance - this kind of thing is where I think an FPGA shines, it's not
necessarily a matter of CPU cycles needed to tame the artifact beast, rather, one can
use the parallelism of an FPGA to an advantage.  For example, the high sample rate
then FIR then decimate method could be used in a one-sample-behind arrangement like
this: For each DAC enable, generate a set of samples (at a rate higher than the DAC's)
and store them in RAM.  Then next DAC enable, start the generation process again in a
second RAM, but now the last sample set created is available to the FIR filter which
decimates and ultimately sends it's output to the DAC.  Thus while the "now" sample is
being generated, the "old" sample is actually playing.  So for an FPGA, one can deal
with either cycles used by a processor doing a sort of linear processing thing OR one
can do both the generation and filtration in parallel.  In the former case, a high CPU
clock rate is necessary, in the latter, FPGA fabric area being larger is required. 
Fortunately, modern FPGAs are available in sizes well large enough to accomodate this
for audio synthesis - even with reasonably large polyphony.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Lanterman has at least one video (sorry, I don't have the URL) in which he
explains how BLIT (Band Limited Impulse Train) works, very interesting.  

I recently found a PDF on the subject of BLOO (Band Limited Overlapping Oscillator)
http://s1gnals.blogspot.com/2008/12/bloo_6897.html where you can get the article and
source code for this.  I do not claim to understand this at this time.

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From tshire at charter.net  Mon Dec 22 16:46:57 2008
From: tshire at charter.net (Travis Shire)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:46:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] A "KISS" to all of you for the season..
References: <494EB7D9.2010602@imt.net>
Message-ID: <000701c9644c$859b7660$6401a8c0@cyberup0n1qn6z>


> You are going to split a guy if you haven't seen this..actually..I think
> it's funnier every time I watch if for some reason.  That's unusual for
> me.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw5oJoUYTb8&feature=channel_page
> should contain a video 'Kiss Shreds'
>
> This is absolutely one of the funniest music overdub things I've ever
> seen I think.


That is hi-larry-ous. I've been sending that to everyone I know. He really
did a great job on it.

Where's the camera? Oh MY!!! XD



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Mon Dec 22 16:52:26 2008
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:52:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Testing a power supply
In-Reply-To: <494F9DF3.1000901@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	<494F83E1.9020704@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<494F9A29.4070108@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<494F9DF3.1000901@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <494FB7BA.2040300@bugbrand.co.uk>

Thanks Magnus!
I wondered at first what TAOE was (google searched turned up some weird 
possibilities) before realizing that I ought to finally get myself a 
copy (Art of Electronics - ah!)

Input Voltage - yes, I have a variac though need to change the output 
connections before use.

That's some good pointers -- thanks


Magnus Danielson wrote:
> Tom Bugs skrev:
>> Hiya,
>>
>> I just wondered whether anyone can recommend a tutorial or similar to 
>> cover thorough testing of a linear PSU (based on LM317 / LM337)
>> - basically, putting it through its paces and recording performance 
>> values.
>>
>> I know how to hook up a dummy load using power resistors, but can't 
>> think of much beyond that other than temperature -- what should I be 
>> focusing on?
>>
>> Any help much appreciated!
>
> Variation of input voltage (usually power line voltage), check min, 
> mean and max values.
> Variation of load - check stability! (lack of oscillation)
> Check over-current limitation and recovery from overcurrent (fuse or 
> ducking, which ever is used).
>
> A peculiar issue may be that certain impedances may cause it to 
> oscillate unless due care is taken. Measuring source impedance can be 
> interesting. As you load/unload the regulator, check for oscillations 
> on scope.
>
> Read up on power supplies in TAOE and you will realize what types of 
> tests you would like to do.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1860 - Release Date: 12/21/2008 3:08 PM
>
>   



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Mon Dec 22 16:58:54 2008
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:58:54 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Testing a power supply
In-Reply-To: <608bfe540812220624v7fa202u535f8584514c4a50@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	
	<494F83E1.9020704@rubidium.dyndns.org>	
	<494F9A29.4070108@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<608bfe540812220624v7fa202u535f8584514c4a50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <494FB93E.201@bugbrand.co.uk>

That looks to be a great help -- thanks John!

John Luciani wrote:
> How involved to you want to get?
>
> I would replace the dummy resistors with an active load
> (see the active load schematic at http://tinyurl.com/6cbn6h)
> This will allow you to easliy test under different loading conditions.
> It is a very simple circuit.
>
> The basic tests would be
>
>   Line regulation which defines how a change in input voltage produces
>   a change in output voltage
>
>   Load regulation which defines how a change in output load produces
>   a change in output voltage.
>
>   Efficiency which is the ratio of output power to input power
>   This can be difficult to measure with high accuracy.
>
>   Output ripple AC component of the output voltage
>
> You could also add dymanic tests and fault testing. Power supplies usually
> have over-current and over-voltage fault modes that you test.
>
> For a switching supply a basic test sequence would be ---
>
>    Low Line, Max Load   (highest operating frequency)
>    High Line,  Min Load  (lowest operating frequency)
>    Nominal Line, Nominal Load
>    Efficiency (nominal line, nominal load)
>    Output ripple
>
> For a linear supply I would add High Line, Max Load which would
> produce the maximum heating in the linear regulator.
>
> You could also perform the basic tests at different ambient temperatures.
>
> (* jcl *)
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1860 - Release Date: 12/21/2008 3:08 PM
>
>   



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Mon Dec 22 17:13:27 2008
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:13:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] pics from the synth-diy meeting in germany
Message-ID: <494FBCA7.7020909@mnet-online.de>

Hi,

The pics of the small synth-diy meeting from october are available at my 
site:

http://fa.utfs.org/diy/meeting_2008/index.html

I can't tell more about the stuff show, be cause I could not join the 
meeting.

Florian


From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Dec 22 18:02:44 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:02:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
Message-ID: <200812221802.mBMI2iTP013317@linux7.lan>

Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>
>On 22 Dec 2008, at 15:08, Seb Francis wrote:
>
>> Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I've tried going the whole hog, but I have to say that I'm not yet  
>>> entirely convinced by my wavetable oscillators. To really remove  
>>> the aliasing completely is difficult and finishes up using up so  
>>> many processor cycles that you can't do any of the interesting stuff.
>>
>> I'm curious, what approach are you using to get 'alias free'  
>> oscillators?  Simply using a much higher internal sampling rate and  
>> then a low pass FIR filter?  Or something more sophisticated than  
>> this.  Which is the part that is burning most of the processor cycles?
>
>Well, like Scott G. I've tried a few things, but the comment was  
>referring to using bandlimited wavetables. Unlike Scott, I've done  
>this with multiple tables, like the Korg DW series synths. The  
>original DW synths used one table per octave for eight octaves, at 8- 
>bit resolution and about 50KHz sample rate, IIRC.

Great info, I'd like to see your code sometime.

Just so there's no confusion, I am not dissing/knocking wavetable synthesis at all. 
Quite the contrary, it can work quite well.

My experiment was just that, I didn't push to the next stage - multiple tables with
interpolation because it makes the synthesis engine itself more complex than I wanted.  

Kudos to Tom for taking wavetables to the level he described, it sounds quite
sophisticated.

I've not yet actually implemented the FIR lowpass filtering and decimation of
upsampled arbitrary naively generated waveforms in a working synth, only in a
functional testbed.  I worked only with a sawtooth and a square wave to see how well
it deals with the artifacts.  I was satisified enough that I will probably try to use
this method in a future project.  It allows the waveform generation method to remain
fairly simple and intuitive while leaving the messy stuff to design code that one can
sort of forget about.  What I like about this particular method is the synthesis and
alias artifact reduction are separate processes.  Once you have a satisfactory
artifact reduction engine built, it's design can remain static while building more
complexity and features into the synthesis engine itself.

I think the actual application, the kinds of waveforms produced, makes a difference
in the choice of alias artifact reduction methods one chooses.  A simple example of
this would be an additive synth made of sinewaves from wavetables - this needs no
alias artifact control at all.

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Dec 22 18:26:50 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:26:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C2E69189-8DC2-443B-9F25-49DD0983E0DF@electricdruid.net>


On 22 Dec 2008, at 15:08, Seb Francis wrote:

> Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've tried going the whole hog, but I have to say that I'm not yet  
>> entirely convinced by my wavetable oscillators. To really remove  
>> the aliasing completely is difficult and finishes up using up so  
>> many processor cycles that you can't do any of the interesting stuff.
>
> I'm curious, what approach are you using to get 'alias free'  
> oscillators?  Simply using a much higher internal sampling rate and  
> then a low pass FIR filter?  Or something more sophisticated than  
> this.  Which is the part that is burning most of the processor cycles?

Well, like Scott G. I've tried a few things, but the comment was  
referring to using bandlimited wavetables. Unlike Scott, I've done  
this with multiple tables, like the Korg DW series synths. The  
original DW synths used one table per octave for eight octaves, at 8- 
bit resolution and about 50KHz sample rate, IIRC.
I've improved this in a number of ways; tables every half-octave, 16- 
bit resolution, 62.5KHz sample rate and two oscillators running on  
the chip.

The problems come down to the amount of interpolation you need to do,  
and the calculation required to generate the various indexes for  
those interpolations. To reduce truncation or rounding noise from the  
table, you need to interpolate between wavetable samples. In order to  
smooth the transitions between wavetables, you should also  
interpolate between the two nearest wavetables for a given pitch.  
This makes three interps. On a 40MHz chip at 62.5KHz, that's just  
about too much. I could gain some time by using a single uP for a  
single oscillator, but then I wouldn't be able to do any digital FM,  
and anyway, I thought these modern uPs were supposed to be powerful.  
Korg didn't bother with any of these niceities, since they probably  
didn't have much choice back then.

In the end, I followed Korg and put the interesting stuff in (PWM  
implemented as a phase distortion function, and digital FM between  
the two oscs) and left out the interpolation. The tables are  
oversampled anyway, so table noise isn't too much of an issue, and  
having tables every half-octave minimises the audibility of  
transitions, except for certain FM waveforms.

I'm hoping to reduce this problem by only switching waveform tables  
at the zero crossings, which I haven't tried yet.

The experiment was far from being a failure, and in fact I'll  
probably use it in my synth design, but it did make me realise how  
tough a problem aliasing is. Even taking the "easy" route and  
avoiding it using bandlimited tables uses up far more time and memory  
than you'd have thought - should be easy, right? Just read the  
appropriate sample from the appropriate table and output it - Bingo!  
Alias-free waveform at arbitary frequency! Turns out the devil is in  
the details, as ever...

T.






From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Dec 22 18:41:58 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:41:58 +0000
Subject: DCOs (was Re: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation)
In-Reply-To: <908a4c120812220732n1fd7911apfd2496ee0e63d7cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<908a4c120812220732n1fd7911apfd2496ee0e63d7cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0746C106-0A84-4240-A9EE-526546B267E9@electricdruid.net>


On 22 Dec 2008, at 15:32, Amos wrote:

>
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Tom Wiltshire  
> <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
> After all, I haven't heard anyone slating the Prophet for not being  
> analogue enough, or sounding "weak" or "thin" or any of the other  
> rubbish people used to say about DCOs...
> err... I have.  I've heard "Sounds like a Juno without the chorus"  
> or "thin like an 80's Roland" said about the new Prophet, by more  
> than two people.  Nonetheless I am all in favor of new ideas in  
> analogue/hybrid VCOs... for example, it seems like there's a lot  
> more that could be done in the realm of analogue waveshaping  
> applied to a digital-timing-controlled analogue core.  Something  
> with the good bits of the P08's hybrid design, but not limited by  
> the "all on one chip" architecture of that oscillator, could be  
> really special.

Ryan Williams did some nice stuff a little while ago (dsPIC VCDO,  
15th Aug) with analogue waveshaping after a NCO triangle core. I  
thought the use of a triangle output rather than the usual counter- 
output-to-DAC ramp was very clever. Whereas the harmonics of the ramp  
only drop off at 1/h, the triangle wave's drop off at 1/h^2, which  
makes the output triangle far less affected by aliasing - nice trick.  
Once you've got your triangle, you can use the usual analogue  
waveshapers.

I've also been talking to Fredrik Carlqvist about his Minod Vorga  
synth DCO design (http://www.minod.com/products/minodvorga/ 
saw_generator.gif   - posted here in 2006). That's a more typical  
ramp generator with reset pulses coming from the uP, like the P08.  
I'm yet to get one lashed up on the breadboard, but it's definitely  
something to try.

Regards,
Tom



From richard at skydancer.com  Mon Dec 22 18:48:53 2008
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:48:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <200812221610.mBMGAt33027793@linux7.lan>
References: <200812221610.mBMGAt33027793@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <4630B266-6F10-4CD6-BCB8-FC07FE11BB96@skydancer.com>


On 22 Dec 2008, at 15:10, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

> [C] Recently, I experimented with a technique which includes  
> generating arbitrary
> shaped waveforms naively at a sample rate many times higher than  
> the DAC rate.  The
> signal is passed through a brickwall filter, FIR in my case, and  
> then decimated to put
> the pitch in the correct range.  My FIR filter had 511 taps.  Alias  
> artifacts were
> inaudible (to my ears) up to fundamentals of about 5 KHz.  Near the  
> end of the range,
> I noticed some small inconsistency in output amplitude as frequency  
> is changed.

There may be some mileage in direct sine wave synthesis with  
intelligent band limiting. Effectively you'd generate a frequency  
domain representation of your target waveform and assemble it in real  
time, muting frequencies above a certain cut-off. This would be  
processor intensive but you could have arbitrary waveforms with  
arbitrary waveform transformations and lower pitches would have as  
much top end as they usually do.

The other advantage is that this would make it possible to add some  
movement to the upper harmonics. I tried some experiments in Csound  
and sounds with slightly randomised upper harmonics are livelier and  
more analogue-sounding than static digital waveforms.

If you add too much randomness the sound turns into an interesting  
semi-pitched kind of mush. But with digital control you can use that  
as a deliberate effect.

Richard


From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Mon Dec 22 19:18:14 2008
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:18:14 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Testing a power supply
In-Reply-To: <494FB93E.201@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	<494F83E1.9020704@rubidium.dyndns.org>	<494F9A29.4070108@bugbrand.co.uk><608bfe540812220624v7fa202u535f8584514c4a50@mail.gmail.com>
	<494FB93E.201@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE6FF@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>

I spend a lot of my time testing switching supplies as
well as embedded linears on bridge boards.  Some thoughts:
1) if your design is the reference design it should be fine. Make sure you
use the correct type capacitors.
2) do you have appropriate heat sinking?  Is the load appropriate?
3) your layout is now the critical factor.  Look for oscillations with a
scope during normal and test operation.
4) if you have the supply in standalone form a variable load is useful with
a scope to view the output.
5) make sure the input to the supply never drops below minimum input voltage
spec with max. output loading.

I get a 1" thick test report on supplies from the vendors and still find
things that they miss...



Barry




From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Dec 22 19:42:06 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:42:06 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <4630B266-6F10-4CD6-BCB8-FC07FE11BB96@skydancer.com>
References: <200812221610.mBMGAt33027793@linux7.lan>
	<4630B266-6F10-4CD6-BCB8-FC07FE11BB96@skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <E666516B-5AAD-45C9-933D-30DE9C7CBFE3@electricdruid.net>


On 22 Dec 2008, at 17:48, Richard Wentk wrote:

> There may be some mileage in direct sine wave synthesis with  
> intelligent band limiting. Effectively you'd generate a frequency  
> domain representation of your target waveform and assemble it in  
> real time, muting frequencies above a certain cut-off. This would  
> be processor intensive but you could have arbitrary waveforms with  
> arbitrary waveform transformations and lower pitches would have as  
> much top end as they usually do.

This is effectively what I did, but I precomputed the wavetables. The  
only table stored in ROM (Flash) is a high-resolution sinewave  
lookup. When you require a particular waveform, a wavetable  
generation routine runs that builds a series of progressively  
bandlimited wavetables into RAM. The oscillator then refers to these  
RAM tables.
This scheme has certain advantages and disadvantages. On the plus  
side, arbitary waveforms are possible, and you can store many  
individual waveforms since you only have to store a list of the  
harmonic amounts, not the actual data. To weigh against this, the  
wavetable generation takes about 1/5th of a second, so you get an  
audible "zzziipp!" when you change waveforms and you couldn't really  
do wavetable scanning like a PPG.

> The other advantage is that this would make it possible to add some  
> movement to the upper harmonics. I tried some experiments in Csound  
> and sounds with slightly randomised upper harmonics are livelier  
> and more analogue-sounding than static digital waveforms.

This sounds interesting. Are you randomising the frequencies or the  
amplitudes?

T.




From marr at lumin.us  Mon Dec 22 20:43:18 2008
From: marr at lumin.us (Mark Rivera)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:43:18 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] advice on finding metal shop in local area?
Message-ID: <494FEDD6.3050803@lumin.us>


I'm at a loss here.. How do I go about finding a local metal shop for 
making panels? Is there some industry directory? Or some magic word for 
city directories (yellow pages et al)? "metal shop" fabrication" or 
something?

Any tips greatly appreciated.

Mark



From patchell at cox.net  Mon Dec 22 20:49:21 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:49:21 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] advice on finding metal shop in local area?
In-Reply-To: <494FEDD6.3050803@lumin.us>
References: <494FEDD6.3050803@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <494FEF41.4080909@cox.net>

http://www.frontpanelexpress.com ?

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but this is who I use to 
make my front panels.

-Jim

Mark Rivera wrote:
> 
> I'm at a loss here.. How do I go about finding a local metal shop for 
> making panels? Is there some industry directory? Or some magic word for 
> city directories (yellow pages et al)? "metal shop" fabrication" or 
> something?
> 
> Any tips greatly appreciated.
> 
> Mark
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon Dec 22 20:58:09 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:58:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] advice on finding metal shop in local area?
In-Reply-To: <494FEDD6.3050803@lumin.us>
References: <494FEDD6.3050803@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <20081222195809.GI95801@moo.sysabend.org>

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 01:43:18PM -0600, Mark Rivera wrote:
> I'm at a loss here.. How do I go about finding a local metal shop for 
> making panels? Is there some industry directory? Or some magic word for 
> city directories (yellow pages et al)? "metal shop" fabrication" or 
> something?

I'd try looking for a place that does sheetmetal work but not
airconditioning work.  Another option is to google around for any local
place that uses Metalphoto as that seems to be a good indicator of the type
of place you are looking for.

Theres no silver bullet that I know of.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From blacet at blacet.com  Mon Dec 22 21:16:15 2008
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:16:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] advice on finding metal shop in local area?
In-Reply-To: <494FEDD6.3050803@lumin.us>
References: <494FEDD6.3050803@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <347e35174ffd6610b47451683db337b4.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>

---The Front Panel Express is probably the best bet for a few panels.

Not all commercial metal shops want to do instrument panels. Figure on 100
pcs minimum and $600 or more. Not all shops have access to good anodizing
and silkscreening and the careful handling that is necessary to produce
ding  free aluminum panels. You have to ask shops if they have a lot of
experience doing this and if not, their recs---they are going to know.

>
> I'm at a loss here.. How do I go about finding a local metal shop for
> making panels? Is there some industry directory? Or some magic word for
> city directories (yellow pages et al)? "metal shop" fabrication" or
> something?
>
> Any tips greatly appreciated.
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


-- 
John Blacet



From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Mon Dec 22 22:50:29 2008
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragons)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:50:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] reverse side cutters and DIY time pieces
In-Reply-To: <494CE367.70805@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <CA169B4ABA7E4C7794E73B22610F4B7F@ice9>	<2A342A89-4BFA-4514-A615-4FB22C94EE9A@earthlink.net>	<d384bef90812192016j2b3db91ai1a5d669c950c8ffb@mail.gmail.com>
	<494CE367.70805@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49500BA5.2000500@googlemail.com>

Hi,
the cutters are just what I need ! many thanks for the link.
as to diy time pieces by coincidence I found the following links when I 
was looking for data on an old CRT tube.
http://web.jfet.org/vclk/
http://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/clock-scope/scope.htm

regards Peter

Tom Bugs wrote:
> On the subject of lead cutting -- you can get *reverse* side cutters 
> which, if I'm getting it right, will give you a short bit of lead left 
> after trimming (ie trimming before soldering)
> Never tried this myself, but....
> http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Hand-Tools/Pliers/Budget-reverse-side-cutters/30546 
> 
> 
>


From djservs at comcast.net  Tue Dec 23 00:36:37 2008
From: djservs at comcast.net (Nate Reeves)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:36:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] wsg woes
Message-ID: <4DC844E0-4C01-4278-9232-BFB8E53B23DB@comcast.net>

ok its all wired and fired!

i dont have the case built yet but there already is a problem...

mainly the audio out to the jack is not grounded?!

if i put a TS connector into the audio output to where only the tip is  
touching then i get full output and it seems like all the functions  
work.....

however, when the TS cable "snaps" in it cuts the audio out....

i will use the troubleshooting guide to help and double check my  
wiring but what is not grounded?!?!

i have extra washers....
do the washers need to go on both sides of the pots and spdt switches  
when mounted on a metal faceplate?
not sure why that would matter just an idea....

i love the noise it makes (i got a didgeridoo sound and sci fi sounds  
galore!) but i want to find out why the audio cuts when the 1/4" TS  
plug is all the way in....

i attached ground to the neg terminal of 9v battery but still same  
issue...

I am a tad confused on the grounding, does the chassies ground also go  
the neg terminal? i have it wired like the diagram with the neg going  
to ground on the board off the zaniness pot....lol

any ideas on what to check first?

cheers & happy holidays!

nate




From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 02:21:39 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:21:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] reverse side cutters and DIY time pieces
In-Reply-To: <49500BA5.2000500@googlemail.com>
References: <CA169B4ABA7E4C7794E73B22610F4B7F@ice9>
	<2A342A89-4BFA-4514-A615-4FB22C94EE9A@earthlink.net>
	<d384bef90812192016j2b3db91ai1a5d669c950c8ffb@mail.gmail.com>
	<494CE367.70805@bugbrand.co.uk> <49500BA5.2000500@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812221721v54bdde66web2d7d8f3f655765@mail.gmail.com>

With the addition of a few buttons and some additional programming, he
could get a very authentic looking vintage Asteroids arcade game
simulation.

> as to diy time pieces by coincidence I found the following links when I was
> looking for data on an old CRT tube.
> http://web.jfet.org/vclk/
> http://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/clock-scope/scope.htm


From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 02:30:02 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:30:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] A "KISS" to all of you for the season..
In-Reply-To: <000701c9644c$859b7660$6401a8c0@cyberup0n1qn6z>
References: <494EB7D9.2010602@imt.net>
	<000701c9644c$859b7660$6401a8c0@cyberup0n1qn6z>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812221730s4fa9d155mc72086e9d452b791@mail.gmail.com>

Somewhat on the same theme, by accident I ran across somebody how did
a fake music video to Lionel Richie's "Hello".  It's kind of amusing
mostly because of the hair/wig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz0Oq6ifH-8


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Tue Dec 23 02:57:48 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:57:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <001e01c964a1$dd747940$6401a8c0@HeapSimLapTop>

"We can't go  
on building sophisticated synths that have an incredible selection of  
**three** or (wow!) **four** basic waveforms!! Where's the sonic  
variety in that?!"

For me, the answer to this question is that an analog synthesizer has it's
own characteristic sounds, much like a clarinet or a classical guitar.  The
artistic value of analog synths is precisely in their sonic limitations.  I
think it is important to retain the character of analog synths, no matter
how sophisticated (i.e., digital) the control systems for these synths
become.  

There is something inherently charming about making electrons dance in the
audio frequency range in interesting ways, and this charm is utterly lacking
in digitally produced sounds.

(Serious answer to a facetious question, but still...)



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Tue Dec 23 03:09:12 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:09:12 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] advice on finding metal shop in local area?
In-Reply-To: <494FEDD6.3050803@lumin.us>
References: <494FEDD6.3050803@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <001f01c964a3$73a46410$6401a8c0@HeapSimLapTop>

Mark,

Try looking for engraving services.  We have a local engraving company here
in Vancouver called Permel who does a brilliant job on panels.

Dave Dixon



From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Tue Dec 23 03:23:18 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:23:18 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008, Seb Francis wrote:

> I'm curious, what approach are you using to get 'alias free' oscillators? 
> Simply using a much higher internal sampling rate and then a low pass FIR 
> filter?  Or something more sophisticated than this.

Since this question gets asked a lot, I'll list some of the common 
methods. Roughly from easy to hard. Oversampling here means proper 
oversampling with high quality lowpass filtering before decimating to 
target samplerate. Simply averaging N samples will not work.

1) Trivial saw with oversampling
Pros: Easy, can do any waveshape, allows simple sync and FM
Cons: Requires massive (64..256x) oversampling to sound good

2) Sum of sines
Sum nyquist/freq number of sines to produce exactly bandlimited sawtooth.
Pros: No aliasing
Cons: Too slow to be of use in practise.

3a) Differentiated parabole wave
Synthesize parabole (diff(phase^2)*1/freq for -1 <= phase < 1). Aliasing 
falls at 12dB/oct (compared to 6dB/oct for trivial saw).

Pros: Almost as easy as trivial saw. 1/freq can be derived from 
interpolated table lookup (store 1/freq for each note)
Cons: diff(phase^2) can get very small for low frequencies requiring 24 or 
32 bit resolution. Requires 1.5-2x oversampling to avoid annoying warble 
between 10-20 kHz.

3b) Slewrate limited saw
Use a trivial saw-tri pwm oscillator with the pulse width set to exactly 
one sample. Can be shown to be equivalent to 2a.

Pros: Doesn't require frequency dependent scaling or high resolution 
computations.
Cons: Same as 3a

3c) Other waveshaping methods
Several other methods can be used to sample a smooth function and then 
warp the spectrum to resemble saw. Generally slower and more complicated 
than 2a or 2b.

4) Mipmapped wavetables
Precalculate a version (mipmap) for each octave (or half octave) with 
exact number of harmonics. Select nearest mipmap and interpolate the 
stored waveform on playback.

Pros: Good quality with higher order interpolator or oversampling mipmaps. 
Can do arbitrary waveforms. Easy FM. Easy phase distortion.
Cons: Needs lots of memory. Number of harmonics limited for low notes. 
Requires oversampling the mipmaps (using longer table than strictly 
required by the number of stored harmonics) or using high order (FIR) 
interpolator. Requires oversampling or more mipmaps (half or quarter 
octave) to avoid missing frequencies between 15-20 kHz.

5a) BandLimited Impulse Trains (BLIT)
Synthesize bandlimited impulse train and integrate that to produce saw.

Pros: Good quality. No oversampling required.
Cons: Complicated, slow, has numerical issues. Difficult to do FM, PWM or 
sync.

5b) BandLimited StEps (BLEP)
For each oscillator reset, sum a bandlimited step with the trivial saw. 
The steps are precalculated and stored in a table (can be quite short when 
interpolation is used between two phases.

Pros: Very good quality. No oversampling required. Can do bandlimited FM, 
PWM and sync. Probably the only method that can do audio rate PWM and 
sync.
Cons: Requires a divide per cycle. Can be complicated: calculating 
required table entry is not trivial when using sync or pwm.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Tue Dec 23 09:01:10 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 03:01:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
Message-ID: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>

First person to post to the list what this is gets a free sample board  
from my first trial run (i.e. before I build it myself and debug it),  
if and when I get around to getting a trial run done. So, think before  
you post as to whether you'd want such a thing. ;)

users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png (draft, still tweaking)

Lordy, that was painful to layout - I scrapped and restarted twice  
since I kept boxing myself into corners. The others seem to be going  
more smoothly.

- Aaron


From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Dec 23 09:07:06 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:07:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <80CD3A6AD4AE488EABD81BD684A4AB94@jhsilent>

Envelope Generator?

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Lanterman" <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
To: "synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:01 AM
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...


First person to post to the list what this is gets a free sample board  
from my first trial run (i.e. before I build it myself and debug it),  
if and when I get around to getting a trial run done. So, think before  
you post as to whether you'd want such a thing. ;)

users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png (draft, still tweaking)

Lordy, that was painful to layout - I scrapped and restarted twice  
since I kept boxing myself into corners. The others seem to be going  
more smoothly.

- Aaron
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Dec 23 09:09:04 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:09:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
Message-ID: <4A2C0A91631F4A618B02DA64C39BC209@jhsilent>

Some unusual envelope generator, with a Duration parameter.
All parameters voltage controlled.
A Buchla circuit?

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>
To: "Aaron Lanterman" <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>; "synth DIY" 
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...


Envelope Generator?

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Lanterman" <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
To: "synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:01 AM
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...


First person to post to the list what this is gets a free sample board
from my first trial run (i.e. before I build it myself and debug it),
if and when I get around to getting a trial run done. So, think before
you post as to whether you'd want such a thing. ;)

users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png (draft, still tweaking)

Lordy, that was painful to layout - I scrapped and restarted twice
since I kept boxing myself into corners. The others seem to be going
more smoothly.

- Aaron
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Tue Dec 23 09:11:00 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:11:00 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <0741E955-1A81-4B3B-B33F-857284358373@shaw.ca>

PCB for http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2080_3_200.jpg

On 23-Dec-08, at 12:01 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

> First person to post to the list what this is gets a free sample  
> board from my first trial run (i.e. before I build it myself and  
> debug it), if and when I get around to getting a trial run done. So,  
> think before you post as to whether you'd want such a thing. ;)
>
> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png (draft, still tweaking)
>
> Lordy, that was painful to layout - I scrapped and restarted twice  
> since I kept boxing myself into corners. The others seem to be going  
> more smoothly.
>
> - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From bdu at fdiskc.com  Tue Dec 23 09:15:03 2008
From: bdu at fdiskc.com (Brandon Daniel)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:15:03 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <a967aa240812230015m4b8c8cbbmbb2f71c01d902c73@mail.gmail.com>

Nice work!

-Brandon

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Aaron Lanterman
<lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:
> First person to post to the list what this is gets a free sample board from
> my first trial run (i.e. before I build it myself and debug it), if and when
> I get around to getting a trial run done. So, think before you post as to
> whether you'd want such a thing. ;)
>
> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png (draft, still tweaking)
>
> Lordy, that was painful to layout - I scrapped and restarted twice since I
> kept boxing myself into corners. The others seem to be going more smoothly.
>
> - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Tue Dec 23 09:44:57 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 03:44:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <0741E955-1A81-4B3B-B33F-857284358373@shaw.ca>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
	<0741E955-1A81-4B3B-B33F-857284358373@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <D21A2035-A6E1-4676-9975-FE5D992660BC@ece.gatech.edu>


On Dec 23, 2008, at 3:11 AM, Veronica Merryfield wrote:

> PCB for http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2080_3_200.jpg

And Veronica wins!

Veronica, send me a mailing address off-list if you want one. :)

- Aaron


From rjelliffe at allette.com.au  Tue Dec 23 10:56:12 2008
From: rjelliffe at allette.com.au (Rick Jelliffe)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:56:12 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Decoupling caps in Moog modulars: "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009
Message-ID: <4950B5BC.1070307@allette.com.au>

There seems to be four views, not necessarily mutually exclusive:

* a "living" oscillator has good bass power, linear tracking better than 
5 8ves and linear detuning (JH)

* some human ears are amazingly sensitive to some small details

* some VCOs have good frequency stability over time when measured in the 
absense of other activity (eg Ken)

* power supply effects and other pathologies can effect VCOs in a loaded 
operational system (eg Barry).

Recently I looked through some discrete circuit synth schematics, to try 
and find any pattern to the decoupling capacitors, including the 
capacitors used for biasing. Modern designs with op-amps seem very 
uniform: 10uf on the board and .1uF at the chip if there are enough. 

Here are some for Moog modulars (I think these are fairly late versions 
of the designs, since some have 3080 and 3046):

  * 909/910 Power supply has a 3000uF cap after the rectifier, and 100uF 
caps on the +12, -6 (regulated ) and +10 (unregulated) lines.
 http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals/MoogModular?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mod_23.gif

  * 901A Oscillator controller (expo converter) has no power supply 
stabilization or decoupling
http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals/MoogModular?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mod_11.gif

  * 901B VCO has no decoupling on the +12 input, a 100uF cap on the 
derived 11.5V used for the reference voltage for tracking, and 400uF on 
the -6.
http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals/MoogModular?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mod_14.gif

  * 902 VCA has no decoupling on the power supply inputs but 400uF on 
the negative supply and 80uF on the positive supply on some derived supplies
http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals/MoogModular?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mod_16.gif
 
 * 904A VCF has no decoupling on the input supply lines but a 400uf cap 
on a derived negative supply for the output biasing 
http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals/MoogModular?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mod_18.gif

 * 911 EG has no power supply stabilization or decoupling 
http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals/MoogModular?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mod_24.gif
 
 * 3A control panel mixer: 0.01UF on + and -15.
http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals/MoogModular?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mod_07.gif

Here is a good example:

 * 903A random noise generator has two noise section, each with derived 
power: so 4 400uF caps!
http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals/MoogModular?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mod_17.gif

 * 923 filter/noise source has .01uF caps on +12 and -6, and two lots of 
220V on the +/-11.7 and +/-5.7 derived supplies

As you would expect from transistor designs, where there are a lot of 
voltage dividers for biasing purposes, the decoupling is based on 
providing power and stability where it is needed:, but it is interesting 
that different value caps are used for different positions. For example

* 904B VCF has 8ouF on the +/- 12V, 200uF on the +2.5V.
http://www.emusic-diy.org/MoogManuals/MoogModular?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mod_19a.gif

So if we look at these designs and compare them to modern designs, we 
see that supplies for control signals (the negative supplies) tend to 
have caps in the 200-400uF range, while voltages for audio signals (i.e. 
the positive supplies) tend to have caps in 80-100uF range. This is a 
decade or two more than the caps in modern designs, where you tend to 
see a lot of 10uF and 0.1uf (with 0.01uF for logic).

I wouldn't be as bold as saying what effect this cap values regime has 
on a large running system with lots of interconnections, or indeed that 
it necessarily has any effect, but it is a difference compared to modern 
designs at the least.

And it is interesting that on the one hand we have JH saying that modern 
designs don't handle bass and others saying the modern designs are 
somehow not as interesting-sounding, and on the other some of the older 
designs with larger-than-modern values for the decoupling caps (which 
might provide more juice for lower notes but do less smoothing for 
higher audio frequencies.) And does 901A having no decoupling make it 
more susceptible to the potential interferences that Barry Klein 
mentioned?  Don't flame me, I am not saying it is necessarily so!

On the same trail, the ARP 2500 modules mostly have only 1uF caps on 
their +/-15 power supply: Again, not the 10V or .01V values so common 
now. And the EMS VCS-3 boards seem to have no special decoupling at all.
   http://www.guitarfool.com/ARP2500/images/1023_sch.jpg

I once read a hi-fi article which recommended decoupling caps for each 
decade: so if the post-recitifer caps were 3300uF, then 330, 33, 3.3 and 
.33 etc. I'd love to know whether people had any opinion on this.
 
Cheers
Rick Jelliffe



From rjelliffe at allette.com.au  Tue Dec 23 11:05:27 2008
From: rjelliffe at allette.com.au (Rick Jelliffe)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:05:27 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
Message-ID: <4950B7E7.3000105@allette.com.au>



Trapezoid generator.   

Cheers
Rick



From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Dec 23 16:25:02 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:25:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Decoupling caps in Moog modulars: "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009
References: <4950B5BC.1070307@allette.com.au>
Message-ID: <461B063F0F0F4393A9295305D5028729@jhsilent>

>And it is interesting that on the one hand we have JH saying that modern
>designs don't handle bass

How could I say such a thing?!
I don't even *know* every modern design (how could I?) ...

As for the capacitor values, there's a huge difference between bypassing 
(where you get a long with small C values), and RC-filtering (where big Cs 
are *needed* to do any filtering at all).
OpAmp circuits normally require for bypassing (though RC filtering cannot 
hurt, and may even improove), but many discrete, single-ended circuits 
*rely* on supply voltage _filtering_ - hence the big caps.

JH. 



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Tue Dec 23 18:34:14 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:34:14 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20081223173123.M93070@wowway.com>

Hi Aaron

You should strictly follow a convention of using one layer for
vertical, and another for horizontal. I'd even use a couple more
vias if you need to in order to adhere to the convention. I use
the top layer to go the direction which would allow a trace between
IC pins (I don't do that on the solder side...)

You will avoid getting boxed in, you can clean up in twenty minutes 
later. Its easier if you need to make changes as well.

H^) harry


On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 03:01:10 -0500, Aaron Lanterman wrote
> First person to post to the list what this is gets a free sample 
> board  from my first trial run (i.e. before I build it myself and 
> debug it),  if and when I get around to getting a trial run done. So,
>  think before  you post as to whether you'd want such a thing. ;)
> 
> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png (draft, still tweaking)
> 
> Lordy, that was painful to layout - I scrapped and restarted twice  
> since I kept boxing myself into corners. The others seem to be going 
>  more smoothly.
> 
> - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From ken.elhardt at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 19:52:13 2008
From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com (Ken Elhardt)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:52:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>We can't go on building sophisticated synths
> that have an incredible selection of **three** or (wow!) **four** basic
> waveforms!! Where's the sonic variety in that?!

SONIC VARIETY?  I pulled up a small variety of audio files where every
single sound was created on real analog and/or virtual analog synths
with only those 3 or 4 waveforms.  I'm not experiencing any limits
with these instruments since they can create any sound imaginable.
What more does anybody want?  Remember, in subtractive synthesis, the
waveforms just provide raw harmonic material, it's how you shape them
afterwards that counts.  The name of the files should be
self-explanatory and put to rest any doubts about sonic variety.
Links here:

http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/MOTM_Train.mp3
http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Acoustics_192.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Pouring_Water.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Symphony7_Beethoven.mp3
http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Beach_House_motm_160.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/Ion_Drum_Kit.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Scarlatti.mp3
http://home.att.net/~elhardt/JP6_Freebird.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Piano.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Boiling_Liquid.mp3
http://home.att.net/~elhardt4/Nord_Violin_Maneuvers.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth5/Arturia_MMV_Creation_Elhardt.mp3

-Elhardt


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Dec 23 21:05:29 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:05:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081223124054.020d6378@mail.comcast.net>

At 11:52 AM 12/23/2008, Ken Elhardt wrote:
>I'm not experiencing any limits
>with these instruments since they can create any sound imaginable.
>What more does anybody want?  Remember, in subtractive synthesis, the
>waveforms just provide raw harmonic material, it's how you shape them
>afterwards that counts.

Ken  --

With all respect for your incredible abilities and demos, I would take 
issue somewhat with what you are saying.  Certainly it is true that you can 
make any waveform starting with a sawtooth, if you have enough filter 
power.  But using just two or three filters you certainly cannot "create 
any sound imaginable".  I have found it much more efficient and effective 
to have a greater palet of starting waveforms rather than just the usual 
trio.  As just one example, a double-pulse waveform can produce a 
high-harmonic-content, odd-harmonic-only waveform that's quite hard to get 
from a square wave.  Used here, for example:
http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/demos.htm

Ian



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Tue Dec 23 21:34:57 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:34:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49514B71.3020103@xs4all.nl>

Hi Ken,

That is most impressive...

Are you positive that in the Ion_Drum_Kit.mp3 *all* the sounds are made 
using the basic waveforms (plus noise maybe)?
I am very curious how you synthesized those very real sounding toms and 
the cymbals.
Also, even if not perfect, the realism of the piano in 
Arturia_MMV_Piano.mp3 is amazing.

Ken Elhardt schreef:
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>   
>> We can't go on building sophisticated synths
>> that have an incredible selection of **three** or (wow!) **four** basic
>> waveforms!! Where's the sonic variety in that?!
>>     
>
> SONIC VARIETY?  I pulled up a small variety of audio files where every
> single sound was created on real analog and/or virtual analog synths
> with only those 3 or 4 waveforms.  I'm not experiencing any limits
> with these instruments since they can create any sound imaginable.
> What more does anybody want?  Remember, in subtractive synthesis, the
> waveforms just provide raw harmonic material, it's how you shape them
> afterwards that counts.  The name of the files should be
> self-explanatory and put to rest any doubts about sonic variety.
> Links here:
>
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/MOTM_Train.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Acoustics_192.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Pouring_Water.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Symphony7_Beethoven.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Beach_House_motm_160.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/Ion_Drum_Kit.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Scarlatti.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt/JP6_Freebird.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Piano.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Boiling_Liquid.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt4/Nord_Violin_Maneuvers.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth5/Arturia_MMV_Creation_Elhardt.mp3
>
> -Elhardt
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
>   


-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 23 21:54:18 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:54:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W23823B275FF73D6F39A4D2B4EC0@phx.gbl>


Any sound imaginable?  Please don't get caught up in your own hyperbole.  While a skilled synthesist such as yourself can create sounds that are *suggestive* of acoustic instruments or phenomena, no Alesis Andromeda or MOTM system can literally replicate any arbitrary sound imaginable.  I would call that a limit.

I wouldn't think it would be much of a leap to go from "the unique filter configuration of the Andromeda enables it to create sounds that other synthesizers cannot" to "BUT a broad selection of user-created digital waveforms would usefully expand these capabilities".  It's a bizarre thought that a certain selection of modules/features is necessary for the creation of interesting sounds, but anything beyond a certain set is superfluous.  

> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:52:13 -0500
> From: ken.elhardt at gmail.com
> To: tom at electricdruid.net
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> 
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Tom Wiltshire  wrote:
>>We can't go on building sophisticated synths
>> that have an incredible selection of **three** or (wow!) **four** basic
>> waveforms!! Where's the sonic variety in that?!
> 
> SONIC VARIETY?  I pulled up a small variety of audio files where every
> single sound was created on real analog and/or virtual analog synths
> with only those 3 or 4 waveforms.  I'm not experiencing any limits
> with these instruments since they can create any sound imaginable.
> What more does anybody want?  Remember, in subtractive synthesis, the
> waveforms just provide raw harmonic material, it's how you shape them
> afterwards that counts.  The name of the files should be
> self-explanatory and put to rest any doubts about sonic variety.
> Links here:
> 
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/MOTM_Train.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Acoustics_192.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Pouring_Water.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Symphony7_Beethoven.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Beach_House_motm_160.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/Ion_Drum_Kit.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Scarlatti.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt/JP6_Freebird.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Piano.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Boiling_Liquid.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~elhardt4/Nord_Violin_Maneuvers.mp3
> http://home.att.net/~synth5/Arturia_MMV_Creation_Elhardt.mp3
> 
> -Elhardt
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Life on your PC is safer, easier, and more enjoyable with Windows Vista?. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032870/direct/01/


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Tue Dec 23 22:34:05 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:34:05 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c96546$3119a490$6401a8c0@HeapSimLapTop>

Ken,

Those samples are super-impressive!  You should write a book on how to do
that stuff (I bet everyone on the list would buy it, even the "digital
naysayers"!

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C.  V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"

The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Ken Elhardt
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:52 AM
To: Tom Wiltshire
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
wrote:
>We can't go on building sophisticated synths
> that have an incredible selection of **three** or (wow!) **four** basic
> waveforms!! Where's the sonic variety in that?!

SONIC VARIETY?  I pulled up a small variety of audio files where every
single sound was created on real analog and/or virtual analog synths
with only those 3 or 4 waveforms.  I'm not experiencing any limits
with these instruments since they can create any sound imaginable.
What more does anybody want?  Remember, in subtractive synthesis, the
waveforms just provide raw harmonic material, it's how you shape them
afterwards that counts.  The name of the files should be
self-explanatory and put to rest any doubts about sonic variety.
Links here:

http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/MOTM_Train.mp3
http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Acoustics_192.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Pouring_Water.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Symphony7_Beethoven.mp3
http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Beach_House_motm_160.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/Ion_Drum_Kit.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Scarlatti.mp3
http://home.att.net/~elhardt/JP6_Freebird.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Piano.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth6/A6_Boiling_Liquid.mp3
http://home.att.net/~elhardt4/Nord_Violin_Maneuvers.mp3
http://home.att.net/~synth5/Arturia_MMV_Creation_Elhardt.mp3

-Elhardt
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Tue Dec 23 22:36:31 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:36:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20081223124054.020d6378@mail.comcast.net>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>	<d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081223124054.020d6378@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <495159DF.2070200@xs4all.nl>

Ian Fritz schreef:
> At 11:52 AM 12/23/2008, Ken Elhardt wrote:
>> I'm not experiencing any limits
>> with these instruments since they can create any sound imaginable.
>> What more does anybody want?  Remember, in subtractive synthesis, the
>> waveforms just provide raw harmonic material, it's how you shape them
>> afterwards that counts.
>
> Ken  --
>
> With all respect for your incredible abilities and demos, I would take 
> issue somewhat with what you are saying.  Certainly it is true that 
> you can make any waveform starting with a sawtooth, if you have enough 
> filter power.  But using just two or three filters you certainly 
> cannot "create any sound imaginable".  I have found it much more 
> efficient and effective to have a greater palet of starting waveforms 
> rather than just the usual trio.  As just one example, a double-pulse 
> waveform can produce a high-harmonic-content, odd-harmonic-only 
> waveform that's quite hard to get from a square wave.  
What do you mean by "a double-pulse waveform" ?

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From matt at smiffytech.com  Tue Dec 23 22:49:25 2008
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:19:25 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] DIY PG-800?
Message-ID: <49515CE5.6060408@smiffytech.com>

Hi Folks

Has anyone succeeded in creating their own PG-800 equivalent?  I did a 
search of the list archives and saw that someone was planning to do this 
about 10 years ago, but nothing since.

I have a Roland MKS-70 that I have owned for many years but never gone 
beyond presets, simply because I can't cope with all that messing around 
with numbers.  I need knobs!

There's a PG-800 on eBay Australia at the moment, but I reckon that it 
will end up costing more than the synth.  (And more than I want to pay 
as I have just exhausted my budget on an old sampler and peripherals.) 
Building a MIDI control surface to programme through sysex does not 
appear to be too complicated but that would then be hogging my MIDI in, 
so I would need to incorporate MIDI merge in the software (which would 
be complicated.)  Connecting something to the actual programmer socket 
would thus be the preferred method.

Comments?  Ideas?

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/
Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Dec 23 22:53:29 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:53:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <49515DD9.8020304@burnit.co.uk>

Thanks Antti and the others.  This is great information.

Antti Huovilainen wrote:
> Since this question gets asked a lot, I'll list some of the common 
> methods. Roughly from easy to hard. Oversampling here means proper 
> oversampling with high quality lowpass filtering before decimating to 
> target samplerate. Simply averaging N samples will not work.
>
> 1) Trivial saw with oversampling
> Pros: Easy, can do any waveshape, allows simple sync and FM
> Cons: Requires massive (64..256x) oversampling to sound good
>
This is what I had in mind to start with.  I was going to try something 
like 1MHz sampling rate, but you're saying that 3MHz+ is going to be 
needed for a good sound.  What do you mean by 'high quality' lowpass 
filtering? ... Scott talked about a 511 tap FIR filter.  This seems a 
*lot* to implement on a dsPIC (which is what I'm using).

On my 4xD delay when I needed to halve the sampling frequency I used an 
FIR with just 9 taps and was pretty happy with the results.  I actually 
quite liked the sound of the more gentle roll-off.

I guess if one is not too concerned about the very high frequency 
harmonics then the low pass can start at a lower frequency and roll off 
more gently, thus needing less taps.  After all, many much loved analog 
synths have decidedly limited bandwidths.

>
> 5b) BandLimited StEps (BLEP)
> For each oscillator reset, sum a bandlimited step with the trivial 
> saw. The steps are precalculated and stored in a table (can be quite 
> short when interpolation is used between two phases.
>
> Pros: Very good quality. No oversampling required. Can do bandlimited 
> FM, PWM and sync. Probably the only method that can do audio rate PWM 
> and sync.
> Cons: Requires a divide per cycle. Can be complicated: calculating 
> required table entry is not trivial when using sync or pwm.
>

This sounds interesting.  Am I understanding right that it would need a 
separate table for each type of waveform discontinuity - so a pulse, up 
saw, down saw could all use the same table for their transitions, but a 
triangle wave would need a different table of steps?  And presumably 
this can't be applied to something like a sine, or complex waveforms?

In my case I want to have many oscillators, each slightly detuned, so I 
guess the amount of maths is going to add up and there's going to be a 
point where it becomes better to just using simple 
oversampling/filtering/decimating.

Seb





From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Dec 23 23:09:14 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:09:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <495159DF.2070200@xs4all.nl>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081223124054.020d6378@mail.comcast.net>
	<495159DF.2070200@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081223150217.020d3aa0@mail.comcast.net>

At 02:36 PM 12/23/2008, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>What do you mean by "a double-pulse waveform" ?

Like the usual pulse output of a VCO, except with two pulses per cycle 
instead of one.  In general the pulses can have either the same or opposite 
polarities, and variable width and/or position and/or amplitude.  One 
example (of several I have experimented with):
http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/sy_cir5.htm

Ian



From matt at smiffytech.com  Tue Dec 23 23:09:47 2008
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:39:47 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Active VCO temp compensation
In-Reply-To: <000301c96546$3119a490$6401a8c0@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>	<d384bef90812231052v27596a56m14fa83e3b05816de@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301c96546$3119a490$6401a8c0@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <495161AB.1080100@smiffytech.com>

Quoth David G. Dixon at 2008-12-24 08:04...
> Those samples are super-impressive!  You should write a book on how to do
> that stuff (I bet everyone on the list would buy it, even the "digital
> naysayers"!

Certainly a good idea for a book.  As I only acquired my first synth 
with knobs about a month ago, I would certainly like to get my hands on 
a "Subtractive Synthesis Cookbook".  (I'd also like one for additive 
synthesis for my Kawai K5000, but somewhat less of a market for that.)

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/
Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Dec 23 23:30:44 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:30:44 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk>

Antti Huovilainen wrote:
>
> 5b) BandLimited StEps (BLEP)
> For each oscillator reset, sum a bandlimited step with the trivial 
> saw. The steps are precalculated and stored in a table (can be quite 
> short when interpolation is used between two phases.
>
> Pros: Very good quality. No oversampling required. Can do bandlimited 
> FM, PWM and sync. Probably the only method that can do audio rate PWM 
> and sync.
> Cons: Requires a divide per cycle. Can be complicated: calculating 
> required table entry is not trivial when using sync or pwm.
>

For anyone trying to get their head around this (like me!), here's an 
easily-understandable introduction...
http://www.slack.net/~ant/bl-synth/

Seb





From matt at smiffytech.com  Wed Dec 24 00:51:13 2008
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:21:13 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] DIY PG-800?
In-Reply-To: <abf5ae4f0812231429i4abd44edi92c25494305daf4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49515CE5.6060408@smiffytech.com>
	<abf5ae4f0812231429i4abd44edi92c25494305daf4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49517971.2090505@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Ken Luke at 2008-12-24 08:59...
> Are you set on a hardware solution? If not, there are many different
> MIDI editors that you can set up, provided you are using a PC of some
> sort.
> 
> I just sold my MKS-50 & PG300. I once looked inside the PG300 and even
> something that simple (compared to the PG800) looked like it would be
> a significant engineering effort...

Thanks for your reply, Ken.

I do want a hardware solution - I want physical knobs.  Working with a 
computer all the time and having certain health issues, I'm trying to 
use screen (eye strain)/mouse (carpal tunnel) as little as possible for 
my music.  I also find it easier to relate to and understand something 
that I can touch than an on-screen visualisation.  The computer will 
just be used for recording and as a sysex librarian and sending out 
e-mails when something doesn't work ;-)

Creating a hardware editor based on a microcontroller that uses MIDI 
sysex is actually reasonably trivial - or at least it is since I'm 
already working on a design for a low-cost, minimalist MIDI control 
surface.  You just need to poll the state of some switches and several 
analogue channels (the sliders) and shoot out the data if any of these 
change.  You then build the sysex message and send it out of the UART.

A PG-x00 substitute is probably not much more complex from the hardware 
side (just needs the implementation of a synchronous serial interface 
rather than using a UART for MIDI) but the really tricky bit would 
writing the firmware seeing as how the communication protocol is totally 
undocumented.  It would be possible to reverse-engineer by monitoring 
the signals coming out of the PG-x00 but that would take a) time and b) 
you've guessed it - a PG-x00!

So, what it really comes down to is whether anyone has managed to 
reverse-engineer the protocol (or even get it out of Roland: highly 
unlikely).  If not, it will have to be MIDI because at least this is all 
documented in the MKS-70 owner's manual.

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/
Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy


From colin at colinfraser.com  Wed Dec 24 01:37:41 2008
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:37:41 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIY PG-800?
In-Reply-To: <49517971.2090505@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <138F5ED473F041A189EAB50EA8463F56@zen2>

 
> A PG-x00 substitute is probably not much more complex from 
> the hardware 
> side (just needs the implementation of a synchronous serial interface 
> rather than using a UART for MIDI) but the really tricky bit would 
> writing the firmware seeing as how the communication protocol 
> is totally undocumented.

http://www.colinfraser.com/jx10/moreinfo.htm

Cheers,
Colin f




From rtellason at verizon.net  Wed Dec 24 01:46:58 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:46:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <200812231946.58683.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 23 December 2008 03:01:10 am Aaron Lanterman wrote:
> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png

I've no idea what it is,  but what did you use to make the drawing with?

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From rtellason at verizon.net  Wed Dec 24 01:50:54 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:50:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Decoupling caps in Moog modulars: "Living VCOs" PCB in 2009
In-Reply-To: <4950B5BC.1070307@allette.com.au>
References: <4950B5BC.1070307@allette.com.au>
Message-ID: <200812231950.54885.rtellason@verizon.net>

> I once read a hi-fi article which recommended decoupling caps for each
> decade: so if the post-recitifer caps were 3300uF, then 330, 33, 3.3 and
> .33 etc. I'd love to know whether people had any opinion on this.

I think that's going a bit far,  but I have been known to use some value of 
electrolytic (say 100uF) with a smaller value tantalum (say 1uF) and a 
smaller value of some other type (say 10 or 100nF) all in parallel...



-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Wed Dec 24 03:03:08 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:03:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <200812231946.58683.rtellason@verizon.net>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
	<200812231946.58683.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <6219F909-3667-4C65-87AA-1057FD5E8657@ece.gatech.edu>


On Dec 23, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Roy J. Tellason wrote:

> On Tuesday 23 December 2008 03:01:10 am Aaron Lanterman wrote:
>> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png
>
> I've no idea what it is,

Veronica won the contest - it's the envelope generator from the Music  
Easel. :)

>  but what did you use to make the drawing with?

Eagle.

- Aaron


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Wed Dec 24 04:07:25 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 04:07:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <6219F909-3667-4C65-87AA-1057FD5E8657@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>	<200812231946.58683.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<6219F909-3667-4C65-87AA-1057FD5E8657@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <4951A76D.2020708@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Aaron Lanterman skrev:
> 
> On Dec 23, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday 23 December 2008 03:01:10 am Aaron Lanterman wrote:
>>> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png
>>
>> I've no idea what it is,
> 
> Veronica won the contest - it's the envelope generator from the Music 
> Easel. :)

To be in the contest, you need to have 24x7 net-precense... or just 
happend to share the correct subset of timezones. Ah well.

Cheers,
Magnus


From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Wed Dec 24 07:00:40 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:00:40 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <4951A76D.2020708@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
	<200812231946.58683.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<6219F909-3667-4C65-87AA-1057FD5E8657@ece.gatech.edu>
	<4951A76D.2020708@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <7480C8AB-D79E-43F0-BD0E-7561F81DEF40@shaw.ca>


On 23-Dec-08, at 7:07 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

> Aaron Lanterman skrev:
>> On Dec 23, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 23 December 2008 03:01:10 am Aaron Lanterman wrote:
>>>> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png
>>>
>>> I've no idea what it is,
>> Veronica won the contest - it's the envelope generator from the  
>> Music Easel. :)
>
> To be in the contest, you need to have 24x7 net-precense... or just  
> happend to share the correct subset of timezones. Ah well.
And stay up as late as Aaron! Actually less late since we are a few  
hours apart. Must be that new organic synth - I hear they can keep you  
awake with their long decay noise making.

Vrnc in very snowy Port Alberni




From davebr at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 24 08:03:48 2008
From: davebr at earthlink.net (David Brown)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:03:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] OT vintage amplifier repair
In-Reply-To: <0741E955-1A81-4B3B-B33F-857284358373@shaw.ca>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
	<0741E955-1A81-4B3B-B33F-857284358373@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <0KCD009OGD366BYD@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

This is way off-thread but I'm snowbound going on four days so am 
pulling out all my queued up projects to complete them.  Years ago I 
picked up a Magnatone MP-3 guitar amplifier for parts and ended up 
restoring it.  One of the neat features of this amplifier (which I 
have never seen) was the legends are back-lit with an 
electroluminescent panel and a dimmer control.  These were missing 
from the amplifier and I ended up finding some surplus EL panels at 
Electric Goldmine years ago.  I finally decided to install them today 
and am very impressed with the results.  This is pretty slick looking 
for a 1966 amplifier and nicer than any of the legends on my modular!

I put some photos up on my miscellaneous electronics page.  So far 
I've repaired my Quadraverb-Plus, four Sunn speakers, a Marantz 
turntable, and this Magnatone MP-3.  I'll have to dig around and find 
tomorrow's project although I think that's going to be digging my 
vehicle out and getting chains on it.

http://modularsynthesis.com/electronic/info.htm

Dave 



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Wed Dec 24 08:11:22 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 02:11:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Lamp" on music easel envelope generator
Message-ID: <C22F6FA4-1D11-4262-B7F3-BB83C6553C83@ece.gatech.edu>

is the "Lamp" an honest to goodness light bulb? I just realized I had  
assumed it was an LED, but Buchla uses the word Lamp in some places  
and LED in others, and uses a different symbol.

If so... I find myself wondering, why not just use all LEDs?

- Aaron


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed Dec 24 09:29:20 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:29:20 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] "Lamp" on music easel envelope generator
In-Reply-To: <C22F6FA4-1D11-4262-B7F3-BB83C6553C83@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <516D7BDFEEAB4C63A67A7795E8BDC5F2@ice9>

Well, a lamp has a relatively slow attack and decay, so you aren't going to
have any clicks.. ideal as an audio controller, the only problem is getting
a really snappy attack.
"lamps" often are the best & simplest solution, musically.

paul perry Melbourne Australia



From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Wed Dec 24 09:35:27 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:35:27 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <49515DD9.8020304@burnit.co.uk>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<49515DD9.8020304@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812241014050.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

I forgot to list some equivalences and other things which turn out to be 
useful for deciding which method to use.

First, the list of methods:
1) Trivial saw with oversampling
2) Sum of sines
3a) Differentiated parabole wave (DPW)
3b) Slewrate limited saw
4) Mipmapped wavetables
5a) BandLimited Impulse Trains (BLIT)
5b) BandLimited StEps (BLEP)

BLEP (5b) with N FIR phases and without interpolation between the 
integrated FIR phases is equivalent to trivial saw with N 
times oversampling using the same FIR filter for decimation.

DPW/slewrate limited saw are equivalent to oversampled trivial saw with 
infinite oversampling using one destination sample long box filter for 
the decimation.

Therefore BLEP with interpolation between phases is equivalent to N times 
oversampled DPW/slewrate limited saw.

Every integration before sampling means an additional 6dB/oct alias 
attenuation.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Seb Francis wrote:

>> 1) Trivial saw with oversampling
> This is what I had in mind to start with.  I was going to try something 
> like 1MHz sampling rate, but you're saying that 3MHz+ is going to be 
> needed for a good sound.

Yes. See the beginning of this post.

> What do you mean by 'high quality' lowpass filtering? ... Scott talked 
> about a 511 tap FIR filter.  This seems a *lot* to implement on a dsPIC 
> (which is what I'm using).

Something that has "significant" attenuation soon after nyquist. Basically 
most filters better than simply averaging N samples (which will NOT work).
511 taps for 2x downsampling is way overkill. For higher downsampling 
ratios you're almost always better off using multiple stages of 2^N 
decimations (probably 1-N 2^N decimations with short filters and one final 
2x decimation with longer filter).

> On my 4xD delay when I needed to halve the sampling frequency I used an FIR 
> with just 9 taps and was pretty happy with the results.  I actually quite 
> liked the sound of the more gentle roll-off.

That is a valid "artistic" design choice. As long as you (and others) are 
aware what is happening

> This sounds interesting.  Am I understanding right that it would need a 
> separate table for each type of waveform discontinuity - so a pulse, up saw, 
> down saw could all use the same table for their transitions, but a triangle 
> wave would need a different table of steps?  And presumably this can't be 
> applied to something like a sine, or complex waveforms?

Yes. The tables don't have to be that long though. With 2x oversampling 8 
taps is enough and with interpolation 16 phases should do fine.

Normal sine doesn't need bandlimiting, but sync will. Sine sync is 
problematic as each discontinuous derivative requires separate 
bandlimiting. In practise bandlimiting the step and one or two derivatives 
is enough as aliasing from further derivatives falls off very fast 
(18dB/oct and more).

> In my case I want to have many oscillators, each slightly detuned, so I 
> guess the amount of maths is going to add up and there's going to be a 
> point where it becomes better to just using simple 
> oversampling/filtering/decimating.

If you want to do it cheaply, I'd suggest 2x oversampled slewrate limited 
saw (can be used for PWM too by subtracting two saws). For high quality, 
you can't really beat BLEP.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Dec 24 13:30:36 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:30:36 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2E4D7F17-631E-4BE9-B121-B019D1E16B68@electricdruid.net>


On 23 Dec 2008, at 22:30, Seb Francis wrote:

> Antti Huovilainen wrote:
>>
>> 5b) BandLimited StEps (BLEP)
>> For each oscillator reset, sum a bandlimited step with the trivial  
>> saw. The steps are precalculated and stored in a table (can be  
>> quite short when interpolation is used between two phases.
>>
>> Pros: Very good quality. No oversampling required. Can do  
>> bandlimited FM, PWM and sync. Probably the only method that can do  
>> audio rate PWM and sync.
>> Cons: Requires a divide per cycle. Can be complicated: calculating  
>> required table entry is not trivial when using sync or pwm.
>>
>
> For anyone trying to get their head around this (like me!), here's  
> an easily-understandable introduction...
> http://www.slack.net/~ant/bl-synth/
>
> Seb

This is a very clear walkthrough of the technique. One thing I did  
notice, though, is that on section 11 (http://www.slack.net/~ant/bl- 
synth/11.implementation.html) where they talk about storing different  
versions of the bandlimited step according to the subsample offset,  
what they're really talking about is oversampling the waveform.
E.g. It'd probably be neater to just store one heavily oversampled  
bandlimited step, rather than have a whole array of separate tables  
for different subsample offsets like they suggest. It amounts to the  
same thing, anyway.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Tom




From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Wed Dec 24 14:08:15 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:08:15 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
In-Reply-To: <2E4D7F17-631E-4BE9-B121-B019D1E16B68@electricdruid.net>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk>
	<2E4D7F17-631E-4BE9-B121-B019D1E16B68@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812241506340.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> E.g. It'd probably be neater to just store one heavily oversampled 
> bandlimited step, rather than have a whole array of separate tables for 
> different subsample offsets like they suggest.

No. Separate tables (polyphase interpretation) allows simply mixing one 
entire table to the output buffer. Storing one long step requires stepping 
M indices in the table for each sample.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Dec 24 14:12:58 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:12:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators [was: Active VCO temp compensation]
Message-ID: <19486.81.58.240.234.1230124378.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


Tom Wiltshire schreef:
>
> On 23 Dec 2008, at 22:30, Seb Francis wrote:
>
>> Antti Huovilainen wrote:
>>>
>>> 5b) BandLimited StEps (BLEP)
>>> For each oscillator reset, sum a bandlimited step with the trivial
>>> saw. The steps are precalculated and stored in a table (can be
>>> quite short when interpolation is used between two phases.
>>>
>>> Pros: Very good quality. No oversampling required. Can do
>>> bandlimited FM, PWM and sync. Probably the only method that can do
>>> audio rate PWM and sync.
>>> Cons: Requires a divide per cycle. Can be complicated: calculating
>>> required table entry is not trivial when using sync or pwm.
>>>
>>
>> For anyone trying to get their head around this (like me!), here's
>> an easily-understandable introduction...
>> http://www.slack.net/~ant/bl-synth/
>>
>> Seb
>
> This is a very clear walkthrough of the technique. One thing I did
> notice, though, is that on section 11 (http://www.slack.net/~ant/bl-
> synth/11.implementation.html) where they talk about storing different
> versions of the bandlimited step according to the subsample offset,
> what they're really talking about is oversampling the waveform.
> E.g. It'd probably be neater to just store one heavily oversampled
> bandlimited step, rather than have a whole array of separate tables
> for different subsample offsets like they suggest. It amounts to the
> same thing, anyway.

It may be more efficient to use separate tables, as you can increment the
index by 1 instead of skipping n-1 entries when filling the buffer of
differences.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Wed Dec 24 14:50:24 2008
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:50:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIY PG-800?
In-Reply-To: <138F5ED473F041A189EAB50EA8463F56@zen2>
References: <49517971.2090505@smiffytech.com>,
	<138F5ED473F041A189EAB50EA8463F56@zen2>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A6118435BDE@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>


Hi!

> A PG-x00 substitute is probably not much more complex from
> the hardware
> side (just needs the implementation of a synchronous serial interface
> rather than using a UART for MIDI) but the really tricky bit would
> writing the firmware seeing as how the communication protocol
> is totally undocumented.

OK, it is also software but maybe it fills the time until you have a hardware solution:
http://greg.baumont.free.fr/index.php/2008/07/14/gb-800-synthesizer-programmer-a-roland-pg-800-emulator/

And you can have a look at the Service Manual of the PG-800 that is part of the JX8P Servoice Manual -
at least the schematics of the PG-800 are here. It works with an 8048 microcontroller that can normally be copied
as it had no code protection as far as I know. You should fine someone that has the PG-800 and can copy the 8048 for you...
http://manuals.fdiskc.com/flat/Roland%20JX-8P%20&%20PG-800%20Service%20Manual.pdf

maybe some information also in the MKS70 Service Manual:
http://greg.baumont.free.fr/download/RolandMKS70ServiceManualEnglish.rar

Ciao
Peter

http://www.ullrich.at.tt


From Chris.Strellis at crystalvision.tv  Wed Dec 24 15:44:08 2008
From: Chris.Strellis at crystalvision.tv (Chris Strellis)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:44:08 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] OT vintage amplifier repair
In-Reply-To: <0KCD009OGD366BYD@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu><0741E955-1A81-4B3B-B33F-857284358373@shaw.ca>
	<0KCD009OGD366BYD@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <77638F7A1E0E0A48B3E118AF250D1FC8B4AA85@crystalvision02.Crystal.local>

> picked up a Magnatone MP-3 guitar amplifier for parts and ended up 
> restoring it.  One of the neat features of this amplifier (which I 
> have never seen) was the legends are back-lit with an 
> electroluminescent panel and a dimmer control.

They look so clear and sharp in the pictures that I thought the legends
were Photoshopped in!

Good work and one more thing not in land fill!

Cheers

Chris



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Wed Dec 24 16:28:11 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:28:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <7480C8AB-D79E-43F0-BD0E-7561F81DEF40@shaw.ca>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>	<200812231946.58683.rtellason@verizon.net>	<6219F909-3667-4C65-87AA-1057FD5E8657@ece.gatech.edu>	<4951A76D.2020708@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<7480C8AB-D79E-43F0-BD0E-7561F81DEF40@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <4952550B.6020704@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Veronica Merryfield skrev:
> 
> On 23-Dec-08, at 7:07 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
> 
>> Aaron Lanterman skrev:
>>> On Dec 23, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday 23 December 2008 03:01:10 am Aaron Lanterman wrote:
>>>>> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png
>>>>
>>>> I've no idea what it is,
>>> Veronica won the contest - it's the envelope generator from the Music 
>>> Easel. :)
>>
>> To be in the contest, you need to have 24x7 net-precense... or just 
>> happend to share the correct subset of timezones. Ah well.
> And stay up as late as Aaron! Actually less late since we are a few 
> hours apart. Must be that new organic synth - I hear they can keep you 
> awake with their long decay noise making.
> 
> Vrnc in very snowy Port Alberni

Oh, you got one of those? Congratulations!

I guess I have to stay put cuddling with a JH FS-1A or so. Not as 
adorable but quite cute never the less.

Merry Christmas to you all!

Cheers,
Magnus - who just had a mm or two of snow in Stockholm


From derek at umatic.nl  Wed Dec 24 16:29:40 2008
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:29:40 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] switching power supplies?
Message-ID: <49525564.705@umatic.nl>

I've been researching PSUs again, and some upcoming gigs in North 
America have me looking at switching PSUs. My main spec priorities, as I 
mentioned on earlier threads, are ?15V, about 1A and fairly small size.

Curetronic here in Germany have the following on offer:

http://www.curetronic.com/curetrbau/neubau/power.htm

Power supply: [+/-15V][1,6A][AC Input 85-260V]
Protections: Shortcircuit-Overload-Overvoltage-Overtemperature
Size: 105x60x30mm
Price: 29,50 euro+shipment

I've been told that switching power supplies can be very noisy, so my 
questions would be:

1) Given that this is advertised on the webpage of a fairly respected 
synth manufacturer, should I take this PSU seriously in the absence of 
any other spec (I've written him for more info but haven't gotten a 
reply in a few weeks)?

2) Has anyone actually used this or another switching PSU successfully?

Happy holidays!
D.


-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 60:
"Don't be afraid of things because they're easy to do"


From barryklein at cox.net  Wed Dec 24 18:05:09 2008
From: barryklein at cox.net (Barry Klein)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:05:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] switching power supplies?
References: <49525564.705@umatic.nl>
Message-ID: <04C20D34DA664A63B5FCA56AD8299A95@DAD>

I don't want to start a theory war but I would not hesitate to use
a recently designed switching supply.  They are what everything but
very local low current demand products use now.  They are very
reliable, have good safeguard features, very high performance, and
quiet.  More recent designs have higher switching frequency to
reduce component sizes and noise emissions.

If you have your doubts, buy it and try shorting out the outputs any way
you can with a scope attached to them.  Try load tests that go beyond
the specified load and see that it shuts down in a protection mode and 
recovers when
the load is removed or dropped down to acceptable levels.  Modern
supplies now should not have the crude crowbar protection but intead
will recover from high loading etc. immediately without power cycling AC.

The one you suggest is capable of full AC input range so you can use it
at home too...  You may want to add bulk capacitance locally at your
load side if necessary.  Looks like totally isolated input (no ground) so
you do not have to worry about ground offsets between AC outlets.
Depending on how quiet it is, and what your are powering with it, if RF
emissions become an issue you can use a ferrite choke on the DC 
cabling/wiring
placed near the source of the emissions - your load or the supply itself. 
They
have some of these that you just wrap the wiring around them a couple
times and snap it together to try.

Much better than taking along a huge bench lab supply or whatever...!


Barry

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Derek Holzer" <derek at umatic.nl>
To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:29 AM
Subject: [sdiy] switching power supplies?


I've been researching PSUs again, and some upcoming gigs in North
America have me looking at switching PSUs. My main spec priorities, as I
mentioned on earlier threads, are ?15V, about 1A and fairly small size.

Curetronic here in Germany have the following on offer:

http://www.curetronic.com/curetrbau/neubau/power.htm

Power supply: [+/-15V][1,6A][AC Input 85-260V]
Protections: Shortcircuit-Overload-Overvoltage-Overtemperature
Size: 105x60x30mm
Price: 29,50 euro+shipment

I've been told that switching power supplies can be very noisy, so my
questions would be:

1) Given that this is advertised on the webpage of a fairly respected
synth manufacturer, should I take this PSU seriously in the absence of
any other spec (I've written him for more info but haven't gotten a
reply in a few weeks)?

2) Has anyone actually used this or another switching PSU successfully?

Happy holidays!
D.


-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 60:
"Don't be afraid of things because they're easy to do"
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tshire at charter.net  Wed Dec 24 18:07:06 2008
From: tshire at charter.net (Travis Shire)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:07:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OT vintage amplifier repair
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu><0741E955-1A81-4B3B-B33F-857284358373@shaw.ca>
	<0KCD009OGD366BYD@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <000f01c965ea$0c93df60$6401a8c0@cyberup0n1qn6z>


> I put some photos up on my miscellaneous electronics page.  So far
> I've repaired my Quadraverb-Plus, four Sunn speakers, a Marantz
> turntable, and this Magnatone MP-3.  I'll have to dig around and find
> tomorrow's project although I think that's going to be digging my
> vehicle out and getting chains on it.
>
> http://modularsynthesis.com/electronic/info.htm
>
> Dave


Nice job. Only thing I woulda done different is labeled the inputs "high"
and Low" just to be vintage correct. Looks charp tho! I made a faceplate for
an Ampeg head some years back....out of an aluminum "for sale" sign. More of
an overlay really...the original was still there but all scraped up and
impossible to repair. I used rub on transfers for the control labels. Came
out pretty damn close to the look of the original. The trem in those old
Maggies is real nice sounding.



From rtellason at verizon.net  Wed Dec 24 18:33:33 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:33:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] To whet your appetite...
In-Reply-To: <7480C8AB-D79E-43F0-BD0E-7561F81DEF40@shaw.ca>
References: <A8FEEDF9-E220-441E-97FA-73B415081F9E@ece.gatech.edu>
	<4951A76D.2020708@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<7480C8AB-D79E-43F0-BD0E-7561F81DEF40@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <200812241233.33452.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 24 December 2008 01:00:40 am Veronica Merryfield wrote:
> On 23-Dec-08, at 7:07 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
> > Aaron Lanterman skrev:
> >> On Dec 23, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday 23 December 2008 03:01:10 am Aaron Lanterman wrote:
> >>>> users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/appetite.png
> >>>
> >>> I've no idea what it is,
> >>
> >> Veronica won the contest - it's the envelope generator from the
> >> Music Easel. :)
> >
> > To be in the contest, you need to have 24x7 net-precense... or just
> > happend to share the correct subset of timezones. Ah well.
>
> And stay up as late as Aaron! Actually less late since we are a few
> hours apart. Must be that new organic synth - I hear they can keep you
> awake with their long decay noise making.
>
> Vrnc in very snowy Port Alberni

I *am* usually up way late,  more often than not.  :-)

No significant snow here yet,  just a lot of freezing rain and similar 
nonsense,  unfortunately.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From mverbos at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 24 18:47:51 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:47:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] "Lamp" on music easel envelope generator
In-Reply-To: <C22F6FA4-1D11-4262-B7F3-BB83C6553C83@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <C22F6FA4-1D11-4262-B7F3-BB83C6553C83@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <DB7B0050-FC83-41E7-BF1C-8D6103EF9548@earthlink.net>

it's an LED.





On Dec 24, 2008, at 2:11 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

> is the "Lamp" an honest to goodness light bulb? I just realized I  
> had assumed it was an LED, but Buchla uses the word Lamp in some  
> places and LED in others, and uses a different symbol.
>
> If so... I find myself wondering, why not just use all LEDs?
>
> - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From music.maker at gte.net  Wed Dec 24 18:48:46 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:48:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] unused 4016 transmission gates & Norton op amps
Message-ID: <200812241848.mBOImke5025164@linux7.lan>

Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:
>Is there a "best practice" for how to wire up (or, alternatively,  
>leave unconnected) an unused 4016 transmission gate, and an unused  
>Norton op amp?
>
>It looks like Buchla leaves the unused Norton amp unconnected.
>

"Best practice"...  I'd ground all 3 connections to an unused 4016 transmission
gate, the control input connects to MOSFET gate terminals and the others can be
either inputs or outputs but are not driven except by the signal passing through
them.


-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Wed Dec 24 19:39:26 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 13:39:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] unused 4016 transmission gates & Norton op amps
In-Reply-To: <DB7B0050-FC83-41E7-BF1C-8D6103EF9548@earthlink.net>
References: <C22F6FA4-1D11-4262-B7F3-BB83C6553C83@ece.gatech.edu>
	<DB7B0050-FC83-41E7-BF1C-8D6103EF9548@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2E58060E-F9F3-4C70-8337-410CFA64C129@ece.gatech.edu>

Is there a "best practice" for how to wire up (or, alternatively,  
leave unconnected) an unused 4016 transmission gate, and an unused  
Norton op amp?

It looks like Buchla leaves the unused Norton amp unconnected.

- Aaron


From music.maker at gte.net  Wed Dec 24 20:17:02 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:17:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
Message-ID: <200812242017.mBOKH2HN006003@linux7.lan>

Grant Richter <grichter at asapnet.net> wrote:
>>
>> In my opinion, an FPGA is a very optimal design environment for  
>> high performance, high
>> fidelity, high complexity musical synthesis.
>>
>
>And your top level design document can be a graphical diagram. That  
>is perfect for old school signal processing types like me who think  
>in diagrams.

Even with free WebPACK ISE, you can generate a schematic representation of your
design - even if your design is entirely VHDL or Verilog.  I've found this very
helpful in locating where I've done a doofus thing.  (c:

>VHDL can be optimal for implementing function blocks, but a general  
>signal flow diagram is much more readable IMHO.

Agreed, I'm visual.  When I read Verilog, I do force myself to visualize
flipflops, muxes, adders, etc.

>Luckily, Xilinx dev software let's you mix and match pretty much  
>seamlessly.

Yes!  I read about that and tried mixing VHDL modules with Verilog modules just to
amaze myself...  And I know it can work with schematic entry too.  I didn't have
to know squat about the supplied VHDL modules to get it working either.

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From grichter at asapnet.net  Wed Dec 24 21:02:02 2008
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:02:02 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Avnet Spartan-3A Dev Board - USB-UART Bridge Info
In-Reply-To: <200812181929.mBIJTL7j012604@linux7.lan>
References: <200812181929.mBIJTL7j012604@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <571FBE8C-6FC5-4E7B-92EA-EEAB05D296A0@asapnet.net>

>
> In my opinion, an FPGA is a very optimal design environment for  
> high performance, high
> fidelity, high complexity musical synthesis.
>

And your top level design document can be a graphical diagram. That  
is perfect for old school signal processing types like me who think  
in diagrams.

VHDL can be optimal for implementing function blocks, but a general  
signal flow diagram is much more readable IMHO.

Luckily, Xilinx dev software let's you mix and match pretty much  
seamlessly.


From grichter at asapnet.net  Wed Dec 24 21:04:05 2008
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:04:05 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My awesome DIY Christmas gift
In-Reply-To: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
References: <FFEE6CE7F94747AEBBCDD39528DE2ADD@curley>
Message-ID: <E1967646-1C47-4AA5-85C0-28D57997462D@asapnet.net>

Very Cool.

Only Nixie tubes could make it better!

On Dec 19, 2008, at 9:30 AM, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> For me, to me :)
>
> Just received the kit in the mail, it is EPIC WIN!
>
> http://www.transistor-clock.com/
>
> The *ultimate* "all-discrete" design.
>
> Paul S.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From matt at smiffytech.com  Wed Dec 24 23:43:12 2008
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:13:12 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] DIY PG-800?
In-Reply-To: <138F5ED473F041A189EAB50EA8463F56@zen2>
References: <138F5ED473F041A189EAB50EA8463F56@zen2>
Message-ID: <4952BB00.1010005@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Colin f at 2008-12-24 11:07...
> http://www.colinfraser.com/jx10/moreinfo.htm

Quoth Ullrich Peter at 2008-12-25 00:20...
 > And you can have a look at the Service Manual of the PG-800 that is
 > part of the JX8P Servoice Manual -
 > at least the schematics of the PG-800 are here. It works with an 8048
 > microcontroller that can normally be copied
 > as it had no code protection as far as I know. You should fine someone
 > that has the PG-800 and can copy the 8048 for you...
...
 > maybe some information also in the MKS70 Service Manual:

Thanks guys!

Colin's page provides all the codes bar the one for the 'write' command.

Looking through the PG800 and MKS70 service notes reveals the wiring of 
the connector.

Certainly a copy of the firmware would make it possible to reproduce the 
original circuit. (I'm not sure if uPD7001C ADCs are still manufactured 
but everything else is standard parts, much to my surprise.)  This, 
however, still means that access to a PG800 would be required.

To complete the picture so that the system could be reproduced without 
the firmware I would need to know details of the serial protocol that 
are not documented in the service notes:

* Should data be presented on the rising or falling edge of the clock?
* Is the data 7 or 8 bit?
* What polarity is the data (is the logic inverted?)
* What part does the 'ready out' line play?

...questions that could (possibly) be answered with a PG800 and a scope. 
  (Have scope, not PG800 - back to that again.  Doh!)

Maybe it would just be simpler to use sysex, even if it does mean that 
I'd have to implement MIDI merge :-/

/me goes hunting for MIDI merge algorithms.

Cheers

M



-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/
Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Thu Dec 25 02:04:53 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:04:53 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] unused 4016 transmission gates & Norton op amps
In-Reply-To: <2E58060E-F9F3-4C70-8337-410CFA64C129@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <C22F6FA4-1D11-4262-B7F3-BB83C6553C83@ece.gatech.edu>
	<DB7B0050-FC83-41E7-BF1C-8D6103EF9548@earthlink.net>
	<2E58060E-F9F3-4C70-8337-410CFA64C129@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20081225010333.M37021@wowway.com>

I'd ground the input, output, and control of the 4016.

Leaving the norton floating would probably be OK... its a current
input device anyway.  You could tie the inputs to the negative supply as well
(iirc)

H^) harry


On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 13:39:26 -0500, Aaron Lanterman wrote
> Is there a "best practice" for how to wire up (or, alternatively,  
> leave unconnected) an unused 4016 transmission gate, and an unused  
> Norton op amp?
> 
> It looks like Buchla leaves the unused Norton amp unconnected.
> 
> - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Thu Dec 25 06:21:43 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:21:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious "buffer" on Music Easel board 4
Message-ID: <83B2BE86-FE90-427A-9427-A6D54D2A4F46@ece.gatech.edu>

Greeting Buchlarians,

If you take a look at this particular Music Easel schematic, for board  
4:

http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2080_4_200.jpg

There's a mysterious buffer circuit on the right, just to the left of  
the CV inverter circuit. It's not mysterious in terms of what the  
circuit itself does, per se; what's a mystery to me is where it fits  
into the Easel heirarchy. I can't find any specific reference to it in  
the manual (although I might have missed something).

If you look at the big block diagrams showing how the boards fit  
together, the "buffer in" comes from S1-28, meaning it's coming from a  
pin on a voice card, and the "buffer out" goes to S3-14, which I  
believe is somewhere on the front panel. But I can't seem to puzzle  
out what part of the card this would be corresponding to, and what  
front panel jack it would be corresponding to.

Any clues?

And in case you are curious, yes, I've spent pretty much my entire  
winter break so far laying out circuit boards to mostly-clone the  
Easel, with various tap points to make it possible to almost-entirely- 
clone the Easel if someone wanted to do that. I've got an Easel LPG  
board mostly done, a board with the preamp & envelope detector and CV  
inverter about 1/2 way done, a board for the ring modulator (souped up  
with some cool ideas from Grant Richter) 95% done, and a board with  
the "timbre" nonlinearity about 75% done. Based on feedback I've  
gotten so far, it seems lots of people will be interested in these  
boards.

I've read that Mark Verbos is (was?) working on cloning the  
oscillators, so I'm going to hold off on that, and maybe skip to  
working on the sequencer and pulser once I understand them sufficiently.

I am totally obsessed with this. This can't be healthy.

One side effect is I've now gotten very fast with Eagle, which I  
simply could not stand when I started using it. I've learned to think  
in it.

- Aaron

P.S. I've rigged up my preamp/envelope detector board with a switch so  
that you can run the preamp into the ED as usual, or use the preamp  
and ED as separate devices if you want to you. The ED has an input  
impedance of 33K. Should I bother buffering the external ED input, or  
should I declare 33K high enough for rock 'n roll and not bother  
putting in another op amp?




From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec 25 11:19:59 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:19:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Merry Christmas
Message-ID: <D3F1CB57-0087-4EF6-9C75-3A94A9DF6C10@ntlworld.com>

All,

For those that celebrate Christmas at this time of year, may I wish  
you all and your families a wonderful and happy Christmas!!

Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk





From mverbos at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 25 11:24:10 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 05:24:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious "buffer" on Music Easel board 4
In-Reply-To: <83B2BE86-FE90-427A-9427-A6D54D2A4F46@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <83B2BE86-FE90-427A-9427-A6D54D2A4F46@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <AA77776F-6B0C-4084-8770-59E55BD3DF38@earthlink.net>

Aaron,

I'm not.

I did a clone a few years ago and gave a few minutes of thought to  
making a module out of it, but I prefer the 259 of which I have 4 real  
ones. I used the schematic on Magnus' site and modded them for a  
CA3080 core instead of discrete transistors. I'd probably not do that  
now, because of the low frequency linearity issue I found and the fact  
that a CA3080 is now rare.


Mark




On Dec 25, 2008, at 12:21 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>
>
> I've read that Mark Verbos is (was?) working on cloning the  
> oscillators, so I'm going to hold off on that, and maybe skip to  
> working on the sequencer and pulser once I understand them  
> sufficiently.
>


From rjelliffe at allette.com.au  Thu Dec 25 12:09:00 2008
From: rjelliffe at allette.com.au (rjelliffe at allette.com.au)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:09:00 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Temperature compensation with a MOSFET
Message-ID: <3620.203.33.167.227.1230203340.squirrel@intranet.allette.com.au>

Interesting Nokia patent: they find PTATs expensive too!

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=FI1998000736&DISPLAY=DOCS

 "The invention relates to a method for temperature compensation in an
electric circuit. In order to get rid of costly manufacturing processes
and external components, a PTAT resistor is replaced by a series
connection of two resistive elements (Rx, 31), the first of said elements
(Rx) having essentially constant resistance regardless of the
temperature, and the second element (31) having a resistance which is
non-linearly dependent on the temperature. The resistance value of the
first element is selected so that an approximation of the resistance of
said series connection is directly proportional to the temperature"

The patent suggests a MOSFET with a 1V gate source and suitable resistor
can do the job. I wonder whether it is good enough for synths?

Cheers
Rick Jelliffe


From luis.marka at terra.com.br  Thu Dec 25 14:41:39 2008
From: luis.marka at terra.com.br (=?UTF-8?B?THXDrXMgTWFya2E=?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:41:39 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] DIY PG-800?
In-Reply-To: <4952BB00.1010005@smiffytech.com>
References: <138F5ED473F041A189EAB50EA8463F56@zen2>
	<4952BB00.1010005@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <49538D93.6050909@terra.com.br>

Also got curious about the possibility of building a PG800 for my JX8P, 
and I could find the difficult parts (the uPD7001C and the uPD8048HC) at 
utsource.net: $10.00 each. Not that bad!
So if you guys get to read the firmware from a PG800 I am very likely to 
build one for myself!

Luis Marka



Matthew Smith wrote:
> Quoth Colin f at 2008-12-24 11:07...
>> http://www.colinfraser.com/jx10/moreinfo.htm
>
> Quoth Ullrich Peter at 2008-12-25 00:20...
> > And you can have a look at the Service Manual of the PG-800 that is
> > part of the JX8P Servoice Manual -
> > at least the schematics of the PG-800 are here. It works with an 8048
> > microcontroller that can normally be copied
> > as it had no code protection as far as I know. You should fine someone
> > that has the PG-800 and can copy the 8048 for you...
> ...
> > maybe some information also in the MKS70 Service Manual:
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> Colin's page provides all the codes bar the one for the 'write' command.
>
> Looking through the PG800 and MKS70 service notes reveals the wiring 
> of the connector.
>
> Certainly a copy of the firmware would make it possible to reproduce 
> the original circuit. (I'm not sure if uPD7001C ADCs are still 
> manufactured but everything else is standard parts, much to my 
> surprise.)  This, however, still means that access to a PG800 would be 
> required.
>
> To complete the picture so that the system could be reproduced without 
> the firmware I would need to know details of the serial protocol that 
> are not documented in the service notes:
>
> * Should data be presented on the rising or falling edge of the clock?
> * Is the data 7 or 8 bit?
> * What polarity is the data (is the logic inverted?)
> * What part does the 'ready out' line play?
>
> ...questions that could (possibly) be answered with a PG800 and a 
> scope.  (Have scope, not PG800 - back to that again.  Doh!)
>
> Maybe it would just be simpler to use sysex, even if it does mean that 
> I'd have to implement MIDI merge :-/
>
> /me goes hunting for MIDI merge algorithms.
>
> Cheers
>
> M
>
>
>


From raywilson at comcast.net  Thu Dec 25 15:47:25 2008
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 07:47:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Merry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <D3F1CB57-0087-4EF6-9C75-3A94A9DF6C10@ntlworld.com>
References: <D3F1CB57-0087-4EF6-9C75-3A94A9DF6C10@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <D3023CA59D004A5CAF1361B7F00583F4@RaymondLabPC>

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Cool web gadget to check out when relatives become impossible: 
http://atanua.org

Ray 



From matt at smiffytech.com  Thu Dec 25 21:35:22 2008
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 07:05:22 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] DIY PG-800?
In-Reply-To: <49538D93.6050909@terra.com.br>
References: <138F5ED473F041A189EAB50EA8463F56@zen2>
	<4952BB00.1010005@smiffytech.com> <49538D93.6050909@terra.com.br>
Message-ID: <4953EE8A.7030006@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Lu?s Marka at 2008-12-26 00:11...
> Also got curious about the possibility of building a PG800 for my JX8P, 
> and I could find the difficult parts (the uPD7001C and the uPD8048HC) at 
> utsource.net: $10.00 each. Not that bad!
> So if you guys get to read the firmware from a PG800 I am very likely to 
> build one for myself!

The nice thing about it is the use of standard components - at least 
they were standard when it was made.

However, if I could get to the bottom of the serial protocol, I would 
prefer to NOT just reproduce the original.  I'd use an Atmel AVR for the 
CPU (because I am used to them and it's nice to be able to re-programme 
in-circuit) and substitute a current ADC.  In fact I might go for 16 
channel ADCs rather than multiplexing and then using a single one.

The main reason that I would like to do my own version is that I would 
be able to publish schematics and firmware under a Creative Commons 
license - totally legally.  (The Roland firmware would, of course, be 
subject to copyright.  Copying it for a single unit would probably not 
upset anyone but publishing it on the Web would be asking for a nasty 
letter from Roland's lawyers.  Maybe Roland would like to start 
Open-Sourcing its old firmware ;-))

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/
Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Fri Dec 26 00:01:48 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 00:01:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators
In-Reply-To: <49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <495410DC.5070607@xs4all.nl>

Seb Francis schreef:
> Antti Huovilainen wrote:
>>
>> 5b) BandLimited StEps (BLEP)
>> For each oscillator reset, sum a bandlimited step with the trivial 
>> saw. The steps are precalculated and stored in a table (can be quite 
>> short when interpolation is used between two phases.
>>
>> Pros: Very good quality. No oversampling required. Can do bandlimited 
>> FM, PWM and sync. Probably the only method that can do audio rate PWM 
>> and sync.
>> Cons: Requires a divide per cycle. Can be complicated: calculating 
>> required table entry is not trivial when using sync or pwm.
>>
>
> For anyone trying to get their head around this (like me!), here's an 
> easily-understandable introduction...
> http://www.slack.net/~ant/bl-synth/

I compiled the sample program from that page. At a high pitch there is 
still a lot of aliasing audible.

Listen to the .wav files at:  
http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/Band_limited_synthesis

I wonder if this is the expected result for 32 times oversampling and a 
step length of 16 samples?

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From plusworx at t-online.de  Fri Dec 26 02:35:53 2008
From: plusworx at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sch=FCnemann?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 02:35:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Merry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <D3023CA59D004A5CAF1361B7F00583F4@RaymondLabPC>
References: <D3F1CB57-0087-4EF6-9C75-3A94A9DF6C10@ntlworld.com>
	<D3023CA59D004A5CAF1361B7F00583F4@RaymondLabPC>
Message-ID: <495434F9.8010201@t-online.de>

Hi,

Merry Christmas to all of  you!

@Ray: Cool Stuff, thanks!


Sebastian




Ray Wilson schrieb:
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
>
> Cool web gadget to check out when relatives become impossible: 
> http://atanua.org
>
> Ray
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From patchell at cox.net  Fri Dec 26 06:24:36 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 21:24:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Temperature compensation with a MOSFET
In-Reply-To: <3620.203.33.167.227.1230203340.squirrel@intranet.allette.com.au>
References: <3620.203.33.167.227.1230203340.squirrel@intranet.allette.com.au>
Message-ID: <49546A94.4050400@cox.net>

That is a really tough one to call.

The idea is sound...but I am not too sure how practical it would be.  My 
experience with mosfets has not been good.  They can do a lot of 
marvelous things, but in linear circuits the problem they have is no two 
are the same.  That is one advantage that BJTs have over mosfets is that 
they are very predictable unit to unit.

Somebody would have to set up an experiment to see just how practical 
this may be.  It may turn out to be pretty easy.

This is sort of a similar idea to Ian's dial a tempco, except you use a 
mosfet, instead of a tempco resistor.

If I had the spare time...I would do the experiments... because this 
does have the potential to be a big money saver....(mosfets cost pennys, 
while a tempco, even a cheap one, is pretty costly).

-Jim


rjelliffe at allette.com.au wrote:
> Interesting Nokia patent: they find PTATs expensive too!
> 
> http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=FI1998000736&DISPLAY=DOCS
> 
>  "The invention relates to a method for temperature compensation in an
> electric circuit. In order to get rid of costly manufacturing processes
> and external components, a PTAT resistor is replaced by a series
> connection of two resistive elements (Rx, 31), the first of said elements
> (Rx) having essentially constant resistance regardless of the
> temperature, and the second element (31) having a resistance which is
> non-linearly dependent on the temperature. The resistance value of the
> first element is selected so that an approximation of the resistance of
> said series connection is directly proportional to the temperature"
> 
> The patent suggests a MOSFET with a 1V gate source and suitable resistor
> can do the job. I wonder whether it is good enough for synths?
> 
> Cheers
> Rick Jelliffe
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Fri Dec 26 20:36:43 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:36:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <3620.203.33.167.227.1230203340.squirrel@intranet.allette.com.au>
Message-ID: <287948.65279.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Did anyone figured out why Doug Curtis used such a (gm) difference between
the last transductor and the preceding 3 in his filters? Factors of 50,
75 and 100 times can be found in his various designs.

Reg
KD


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From ts-parts at web.de  Fri Dec 26 21:41:44 2008
From: ts-parts at web.de (Tobias Schilly)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:41:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] =?iso-8859-15?q?J=DCRGEN_HAIBLE_Subtle_Chorus_=28Roland_D?=
 =?iso-8859-15?q?imension_D_clone=29_part_kits?=
Message-ID: <1552942293@web.de>

Hey you guys,

I'm going to offer sets for the Subtle Chorus main board and the BBD board.

Project details:

http://www.jhaible.heim.at/subtle_chorus/jh_subtle_chorus.html

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26527


For those who are going to build the Dim T or Dim TD version I suggest the Tau part kits from Bridechamber. Scott is a cool guy and does a perfect job.

IMPORTANT: I won't be able to ship part kits before mid january, as I do have a job ouside of town until then. But of course you can order those from now on.

Main board:

This is the TL072 version part kit. I won't offer the vintage kit, as especially the power transistors are not that easy to source in larger quantities. Same for the HA1457W.
At least I didn't find a supplier for those so far.

Main board parts kit contains all parts per J?rgens BOM, no panel mount parts.

Price: 77 ? (~ 109 us$)

BBD board:

This kit also contains TL071 / TL072 instead of HA1457W.
The BBD and Clock chips (MN3007 and MN3101) are original NOS Matsushita/Panasonic chips, and the compander chips are NOS Philips SA571.

BBD board kits contain all parts as per J?rgens BOM, no panel mount parts.

Price: 118 ? (~ 166 us$)

Shipping: small parcel via DHL
in Germany: 5 ? (~ 7 us$), insured 8 ? (~ 12 us$)
Europe: 8 ? (~ 12 us$)
Rest of the world: 14 ? (~ 20 us$)


As you can see the prices in us$ are estimated. That is because there was a little bit confusion about exchange rates lately, so I'm going to charge you in ?. This way you will get the correct daily exchange rate.

Please send your order to:

ts-parts (a t) web . de

(you know how this goes: name@ etc...)

Please include the quantity and type of kit in the about line

(like this: Order for 2 Subtlr Chorus BBD kits...)

Please include in the mail:

- your name
- full adress
- how you like to pay (bank transfer or paypal - if paypal: please include your paypal billing adress)
- from which list/forum you come

I will send you an email with all details about payment and other information. If you're paying via paypal you will also receive a paypal invoice.

I'm looking forward to hear from you.

Best wishes,

Tobias
_______________________________________________________________________
Sensationsangebot verl?ngert: WEB.DE FreeDSL - Telefonanschluss + DSL
f?r nur 16,37 Euro/mtl.!* http://dsl.web.de/?ac=OM.AD.AD008K15039B7069a




From mverbos at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 26 22:34:27 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:34:27 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <287948.65279.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <287948.65279.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A3EB4EE1-E5E3-4ED5-B033-1A2C18A49EAC@earthlink.net>

J?rgen from Jomox once gave me a demo of his Sunsyn, while he was  
finishing up its design. The 4 poles on it's filter can be switched  
from hipass to lopass to notch and each one has an offset control.  
With just one pole offset from the others he got the resonance to  
behave what he described as "like a 303." It was pronounced resonance,  
but it did not self oscillate. I have always assumed that this is the  
point of having a different cap on one pole. Is this incorrect?

Mark





On Dec 26, 2008, at 2:36 PM, karl dalen wrote:

> Did anyone figured out why Doug Curtis used such a (gm) difference  
> between
> the last transductor and the preceding 3 in his filters? Factors of  
> 50,
> 75 and 100 times can be found in his various designs.
>
> Reg
> KD
>
>
>      __________________________________________________________
> Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
> J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec 27 03:36:45 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:36:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <A3EB4EE1-E5E3-4ED5-B033-1A2C18A49EAC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <89373.54595.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

>mark verbos <mverbos at earthlink.net>:
> J?rgen from Jomox once gave me a demo of his Sunsyn, while
> he was finishing up its design. The 4 poles on it's
> filter can be switched from hipass to lopass to notch and
> each one has an offset control. With just one pole offset
> from the others he got the resonance to behave what he
> described as "like a 303." It was pronounced
> resonance, but it did not self oscillate.

It skews the phase releashionship so the filter has problem to oscillate.
But offseting the pole position in Fc hardly give TB303 character.

>I have always  assumed that this is the point of having a different
>cap on one pole. Is this incorrect?
> Mark

I dont think so, Jurgen just exploited the ability to have each pole
switchable/tunable, similar to the MIF minus pole tuning. Sunsyn manual
speaks about 4 pole and 2pole with 4 pole resonance, that would indicate
all transductors are in series as the graphic in his manual also are
drawn. Poles slightely of line gives a muddier sound.

Regarding to CEM, it seams that the 3320 are of classic type, same
transconductance in all but thereafter he changed the designs!

Reg
KD
 
> On Dec 26, 2008, at 2:36 PM, karl dalen wrote:
> 
> > Did anyone figured out why Doug Curtis used such a
> (gm) difference between
> > the last transductor and the preceding 3 in his
> filters? Factors of 50,
> > 75 and 100 times can be found in his various designs.
> > 
> > Reg
> > KD
> > 
> > 
> >     
> __________________________________________________________
> > Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
> > J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
> >
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      __________________________________________________________
G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling. 
S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec 27 03:57:00 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:57:00 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <89373.54595.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <404238.64159.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

> "mark verbos" 
> >I have always  assumed that this is the point of having
> a different
> >cap on one pole. Is this incorrect?
> > Mark

Ahh! Now i see, you said incorrect, it's incorrect, it's not the point.
:-)

Reg
KD 


      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014



From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 27 05:41:36 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:41:36 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <89373.54595.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <A3EB4EE1-E5E3-4ED5-B033-1A2C18A49EAC@earthlink.net>
	<89373.54595.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W44A98E92060F63B39882DB4E80@phx.gbl>


I think that once resonance is applied, an offset in one of the filter stages will be relatively insignificant.  Negative feedback (resonance) pushes each pair of poles together to form a conjugate pair, detuning one pole would mean that more feedback is required to form that conjugate pair (between the detuned poles) and that it would be offset by half of the detuning amount (or at least that's what my understanding of root locus would lead me to believe).

I think the popular "TB-303 has a 3-pole filter that gives it a characteristic sound" rumor has been debunked already.  If I recall correctly it's more likely done for stability reasons (?).

This was covered in the recent analysis of transistor/diode ladder filters that was posted to this list, but I can't cite/reference it in more detail because it's not on this computer.

Anyway I think the different transconductance of one stage would be
directly equivalent to a different capacitor value.  Probably this could be
undone (to what effect?) by using a larger capacitor on that one stage.

Independent detuning of filter stages is an interesting idea, though I'd imagine an analog implementation would present its own difficulties (four matched exponential amplifiers?).  Detuning two stages by the same amount might give an interesting effect under resonance.  Detuning one stage by a large amount would make a three pole filter with no resonance, and then as resonance is increased it would make a genuine two pole resonant filter (rather than a 4-pole filter tapped at the second stage) with two negligible (?) poles in the stop band.  Neat idea.


> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:36:45 +0000
> From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; mverbos at earthlink.net
> CC: 
> 
>>mark verbos :
>> J?rgen from Jomox once gave me a demo of his Sunsyn, while
>> he was finishing up its design. The 4 poles on it's
>> filter can be switched from hipass to lopass to notch and
>> each one has an offset control. With just one pole offset
>> from the others he got the resonance to behave what he
>> described as "like a 303." It was pronounced
>> resonance, but it did not self oscillate.
> 
> It skews the phase releashionship so the filter has problem to oscillate.
> But offseting the pole position in Fc hardly give TB303 character.
> 
>>I have always  assumed that this is the point of having a different
>>cap on one pole. Is this incorrect?
>> Mark
> 
> I dont think so, Jurgen just exploited the ability to have each pole
> switchable/tunable, similar to the MIF minus pole tuning. Sunsyn manual
> speaks about 4 pole and 2pole with 4 pole resonance, that would indicate
> all transductors are in series as the graphic in his manual also are
> drawn. Poles slightely of line gives a muddier sound.
> 
> Regarding to CEM, it seams that the 3320 are of classic type, same
> transconductance in all but thereafter he changed the designs!
> 
> Reg
> KD
>  
>> On Dec 26, 2008, at 2:36 PM, karl dalen wrote:
>> 
>>> Did anyone figured out why Doug Curtis used such a
>> (gm) difference between
>>> the last transductor and the preceding 3 in his
>> filters? Factors of 50,
>>> 75 and 100 times can be found in his various designs.
>>> 
>>> Reg
>>> KD
>>> 
>>> 
>>>     
>> __________________________________________________________
>>> Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
>>> J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
>>>
>> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
>       __________________________________________________________
> G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling. 
> S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sat Dec 27 09:38:01 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 03:38:01 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wondering what has Aaron been up to?
Message-ID: <5C10843E-D837-41C0-B508-D266EA66E16B@ece.gatech.edu>

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/easel_lpg.png

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/easel_timbre.png (the timbre  
generating circuitry, including the "waveshape" crossfader)

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/easel_ringmod.png (including  
some cool suggested tweaks from Grant Richter - alas, no sine wave  
oscillator on this board, I ran out of room)

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/easel_envelope.png

I've got a fifth board I'm working on that has the preamp, envelop  
detector, CV inverter, and will have something else TBD on it since I  
have a little bit of space left.

My criteria for how much of the Easel to put on one board is basically  
how much logically related stuff I can cram within Eagel Lite's limits.

I really need to stop doing layouts and actually order some of these  
to build & test them and find all the places I screwed up and fix  
those up, so I can move forward with the next stage, which is letting  
these into the wild.

- Aaron


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Dec 27 09:56:41 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:56:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <BLU143-W44A98E92060F63B39882DB4E80@phx.gbl>
References: <A3EB4EE1-E5E3-4ED5-B033-1A2C18A49EAC@earthlink.net>	<89373.54595.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<BLU143-W44A98E92060F63B39882DB4E80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4955EDC9.2030703@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Scott Nordlund skrev:
> I think that once resonance is applied, an offset in one of the filter
> stages will be relatively insignificant.  Negative feedback (resonance)
> pushes each pair of poles together to form a conjugate pair, detuning
> one pole would mean that more feedback is required to form that
> conjugate pair (between the detuned poles) and that it would be offset
> by half of the detuning amount (or at least that's what my
> understanding of root locus would lead me to believe).

You are correct. If all roots have the same real position, they will 
expand out from that in the shape of a circle. The sign of the feedback 
will control which orientation the poles will have on the circle. For a 
4-pole design positive feedback gives poles at +/- 45 degrees and +/- 
135 degrees while negative feedback gives poles at 0, +/- 90 degrees and 
180 degrees. If the poles where not quite on mark (they never are), they 
will gather first and then expand out as expected but with a slightly 
skewed position and shape.

> I think the popular "TB-303 has a 3-pole filter that gives it a
> characteristic sound" rumor has been debunked already.  If I recall
> correctly it's more likely done for stability reasons (?).

Meaningful control-range in a cheap design?

> This was covered in the recent analysis of transistor/diode ladder filters
> that was posted to this list, but I can't cite/reference it in more detail
> because it's not on this computer.
> 
> Anyway I think the different transconductance of one stage would be
> directly equivalent to a different capacitor value.  Probably this could be
> undone (to what effect?) by using a larger capacitor on that one stage.

Certainly, as they form a ratio.

> Independent detuning of filter stages is an interesting idea, though
> I'd imagine an analog implementation would present its own difficulties
> (four matched exponential amplifiers?).  Detuning two stages by the same
> amount might give an interesting effect under resonance.  Detuning one
> stage by a large amount would make a three pole filter with no resonance,
> and then as resonance is increased it would make a genuine two pole
> resonant filter (rather than a 4-pole filter tapped at the second stage)
> with two negligible (?) poles in the stop band.  Neat idea.

No, not quite. The main effect would become that it would shift the 
point of feedback where the "star configuration" expands out. It would 
however essentially behave as a normal filter.

You will shift the frequency and point of expansion with detuning.

To create the type of effects you are describing I think you would need 
to tap the stage at different points for the feedback to achieve what 
you described.

Cheers,
Magnus


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sat Dec 27 10:00:54 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 04:00:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] While I'm at it...
In-Reply-To: <21188_1230367152_mBR8dAg1002594_5C10843E-D837-41C0-B508-D266EA66E16B@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <21188_1230367152_mBR8dAg1002594_5C10843E-D837-41C0-B508-D266EA66E16B@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <8EE2F428-1F1D-4043-8349-6701853B2B9B@ece.gatech.edu>

...all praise and kudos to Magnus for his most awesome Buchla  
schematics page, which makes the above possible.

- Aaron


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Dec 27 10:07:32 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:07:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Wondering what has Aaron been up to?
In-Reply-To: <5C10843E-D837-41C0-B508-D266EA66E16B@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <5C10843E-D837-41C0-B508-D266EA66E16B@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <4955F054.3040105@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Aaron Lanterman skrev:
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/easel_lpg.png
> 
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/easel_timbre.png (the timbre 
> generating circuitry, including the "waveshape" crossfader)
> 
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/easel_ringmod.png (including some 
> cool suggested tweaks from Grant Richter - alas, no sine wave oscillator 
> on this board, I ran out of room)
> 
> http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/easel_envelope.png
> 
> I've got a fifth board I'm working on that has the preamp, envelop 
> detector, CV inverter, and will have something else TBD on it since I 
> have a little bit of space left.
> 
> My criteria for how much of the Easel to put on one board is basically 
> how much logically related stuff I can cram within Eagel Lite's limits.
> 
> I really need to stop doing layouts and actually order some of these to 
> build & test them and find all the places I screwed up and fix those up, 
> so I can move forward with the next stage, which is letting these into 
> the wild.

I think little Aaron got inspired by this:
http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/PaMtEO_i.gif

I especially like the arrows and barber-shop neck support of that 
spacecraft, besides the total lack of pressurized environment. Ah well. 
Precision repair with a band-aid and the italian turist sticker makes 
you wonder. But this is how we should live in the future, in 2001! Oh, 
and all space-ships worthy attention still has a start-crank, anything 
else is unthinkable. :)

I rest my case. :)

Cheers,
Magnus


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Sat Dec 27 10:14:31 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 04:14:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wondering what has Aaron been up to?
In-Reply-To: <4955F054.3040105@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <5C10843E-D837-41C0-B508-D266EA66E16B@ece.gatech.edu>
	<4955F054.3040105@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <EB19D6D1-540A-49AA-8A14-CED137F0F74C@ece.gatech.edu>


On Dec 27, 2008, at 4:07 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

> http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/ 
> PaMtEO_i.gif

Dude, the fact that it has "metaprogramming" in the title is enough to  
get excited right there. :)

As I dig more into it I'm starting to appreciate more and more just  
how brilliant and unique the Easel is. The real power seems to come in  
when using the program cards - it's not just strictly replicating a  
set of front panel controls. You can do all sorts of absurd craziness  
with it that you couldn't do from the front panel, like say switch the  
mode of the LPG using the modulation oscillator. Utterly wild things.

- Aaron


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Dec 27 10:36:46 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:36:46 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Wondering what has Aaron been up to?
In-Reply-To: <EB19D6D1-540A-49AA-8A14-CED137F0F74C@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <5C10843E-D837-41C0-B508-D266EA66E16B@ece.gatech.edu>	<4955F054.3040105@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<EB19D6D1-540A-49AA-8A14-CED137F0F74C@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <4955F72E.7090605@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Aaron Lanterman skrev:
> 
> On Dec 27, 2008, at 4:07 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
> 
>> http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/PaMtEO_i.gif
> 
> Dude, the fact that it has "metaprogramming" in the title is enough to 
> get excited right there. :)

Whatever get's you going! :)

I always though "The Electro Organism" was the mind-blower part of that 
title.

> As I dig more into it I'm starting to appreciate more and more just how 
> brilliant and unique the Easel is. The real power seems to come in when 
> using the program cards - it's not just strictly replicating a set of 
> front panel controls. You can do all sorts of absurd craziness with it 
> that you couldn't do from the front panel, like say switch the mode of 
> the LPG using the modulation oscillator. Utterly wild things.

It's a powerful little box indeed. It takes some time in the depth of 
the schematics to start to appreciate it all.

Cheers,
Magnus


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Dec 27 10:40:44 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:40:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] While I'm at it...
In-Reply-To: <8EE2F428-1F1D-4043-8349-6701853B2B9B@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <21188_1230367152_mBR8dAg1002594_5C10843E-D837-41C0-B508-D266EA66E16B@ece.gatech.edu>
	<8EE2F428-1F1D-4043-8349-6701853B2B9B@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <4955F81C.405@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Aaron Lanterman skrev:
> ...all praise and kudos to Magnus for his most awesome Buchla schematics 
> page, which makes the above possible.

Many thanks! Much appreciated.

I have a little tidying up to do there, like providing PDFs etc. My web 
designer skills is at about the level of -94 or so and I still use the 
same editor as back then.

Oh, occasionally I see people pointing to the old pages, which somehow 
still seems to be there, but I have no control over them. Be sure to use 
the http://rubidium.dyndns.org links.

Cheers,
Magnus


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat Dec 27 11:09:51 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:09:51 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Wondering what has Aaron been up to?
In-Reply-To: <4955F054.3040105@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <D93AE624D101475E87A9F2FBE1534F73@ice9>

I'm pretty sure that artwork is by Jim Phillips, who is still illustrating -

though tragically, today it is skateboards. 
http://www.fecalface.com/SF/index.php?Itemid=92&id=542&option=com_content&ta
sk=view

As for the starter crank - I'm a bit worried about where exactly you would
stand, while you are turning it in space..

Paul perry Melbourne Australia
(Still wondering who did the Oberheim logo..)

-----Original Message-----
>On Behalf Of Magnus DanielsonI think little Aaron got inspired by this:
>http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/PaMtEO_i.gif

>I especially like the arrows and barber-shop neck support of that 
>spacecraft, besides the total lack of pressurized environment. Ah well. 
>Precision repair with a band-aid and the italian turist sticker makes 
>you wonder. But this is how we should live in the future, in 2001! Oh, 
>and all space-ships worthy attention still has a start-crank, anything 
>else is unthinkable. :)



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sat Dec 27 13:27:35 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:27:35 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <A3EB4EE1-E5E3-4ED5-B033-1A2C18A49EAC@earthlink.net>
References: <287948.65279.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<A3EB4EE1-E5E3-4ED5-B033-1A2C18A49EAC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AD41B480-0E3C-4614-BF72-F67660D8036A@electricdruid.net>

I don't know if it's for the same reason (gm differences in the  
transconductance stages) but some of the SSM filters use different  
cap values too. The SSM2044 uses 3 identical values and one  
different. The SSM2047 VCF/VCA chip uses 2 identical values and *two*  
different values.

If it is for the same reason, it must have been a good reason, 'cos  
everyone was at it!

T.


On 26 Dec 2008, at 21:34, mark verbos wrote:

> J?rgen from Jomox once gave me a demo of his Sunsyn, while he was  
> finishing up its design. The 4 poles on it's filter can be switched  
> from hipass to lopass to notch and each one has an offset control.  
> With just one pole offset from the others he got the resonance to  
> behave what he described as "like a 303." It was pronounced  
> resonance, but it did not self oscillate. I have always assumed  
> that this is the point of having a different cap on one pole. Is  
> this incorrect?
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 26, 2008, at 2:36 PM, karl dalen wrote:
>
>> Did anyone figured out why Doug Curtis used such a (gm) difference  
>> between
>> the last transductor and the preceding 3 in his filters? Factors  
>> of 50,
>> 75 and 100 times can be found in his various designs.
>>
>> Reg
>> KD
>>
>>
>>      __________________________________________________________
>> Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
>> J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
>> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>





From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 27 14:57:48 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:57:48 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Understanding Q in filters
Message-ID: <BAY144-W3BA25464281B0A4E2961CC8E80@phx.gbl>



So i have been trying to find and or (modify) a low pass filter with variable Q that only uses one or 2 opamps (at most a TL074).
I have tons of books that get into filters but most of them are NOT aimed at using them for music.

Don Lancasters book is excellent but one problem i have with almost all of them is figuring out WHERE in the schematic to add a pot to control the level of Q (or damping). often Q is mentioned, but is described as being changed with capacitor choice, NOT resistor value, which would obviously make it hard to control with a pot.

SVF desings seem to be a bit too complex for what i am making right now, which is something with ideally very low parts count.

heck even a link to a datasheet that explains changing Q would be great


filters seem to be an area that a man could spend his life on.....

thanks

and happy holidays




--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 





From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Dec 27 15:21:22 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:21:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Understanding Q in filters
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W3BA25464281B0A4E2961CC8E80@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W3BA25464281B0A4E2961CC8E80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <495639E2.2040708@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Dan Snazelle skrev:
> 
> So i have been trying to find and or (modify) a low pass filter with variable Q that only uses one or 2 opamps (at most a TL074).
> I have tons of books that get into filters but most of them are NOT aimed at using them for music.
> 
> Don Lancasters book is excellent but one problem i have with almost all of them is figuring out WHERE in the schematic to add a pot to control the level of Q (or damping). often Q is mentioned, but is described as being changed with capacitor choice, NOT resistor value, which would obviously make it hard to control with a pot.
> 
> SVF desings seem to be a bit too complex for what i am making right now, which is something with ideally very low parts count.
> 
> heck even a link to a datasheet that explains changing Q would be great

Not all filters fits the bill, which you have discovered. State-variable 
filters as well as ladder type filters or other multi-stage filters with 
external feedback for Q is however fairly easy to modify.

After many years I finally picked up Hal Chamberlin "Musical 
Applications of Microprocessors" and sure enough it was found within a 
minute on how to do what you asked for. He proposes the use of an 
exponential converter to provide a useful Q-range of 0,5 to 500.

His design is CA3080 based, but could be trivially converted to NE5517 
or LM13700.

> filters seem to be an area that a man could spend his life on.....

So very true.

> thanks
> 
> and happy holidays
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
> 
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From rtarcan at superonline.com  Sat Dec 27 15:56:59 2008
From: rtarcan at superonline.com (rizacan)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:56:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <287948.65279.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AJEOLNHABHINDODDBLBKCEOFCIAA.rtarcan@superonline.com>

Hi
The first three stages are classic lowpass OTA filters with gain of 1 but
the last OTA lowpass stage has gain of 50,75 or 100. So in order get the
same cutoff frequency of  the other stages the last one  using 1/50, 1/75 or
1/100  capasitor values of the other stages.
Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of karl dalen
Sent: 26 Aral?k 2008 Cuma 21:37
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!


Did anyone figured out why Doug Curtis used such a (gm) difference between
the last transductor and the preceding 3 in his filters? Factors of 50,
75 and 100 times can be found in his various designs.

Reg
KD


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052

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From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sat Dec 27 16:06:51 2008
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:51 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 74HC vs. 4xxx CMOS 
Message-ID: <FD654D22-D427-11DD-8C4D-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>

Hi all.

Do any of you have opinions on which would be the best for attempting 
to future-proof new thru-hole designs, of which some parts need to be 
+5V?

My *guess* is that there may be more 4xxx series ICs already in 
people's collections, and more varieties available, but that there is 
little difference in the new price or availability, and that 74HC 
performs better at +5V.....

Any thoughts or opinions welcome.

cheers,
Dave



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Sat Dec 27 19:10:45 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:10:45 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] 74HC vs. 4xxx CMOS 
In-Reply-To: <FD654D22-D427-11DD-8C4D-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
References: <FD654D22-D427-11DD-8C4D-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <20081227180802.M88270@wowway.com>

I still like 4xxx series. The HC is faster, which may or may not work
better in all applications.  Some functions of the 4xxx series are gone or
becoming rare... (sad)

H^) harry





On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:51 +0000, Dave Kendall wrote
> Hi all.
> 
> Do any of you have opinions on which would be the best for 
> attempting to future-proof new thru-hole designs, of which some 
> parts need to be +5V?
> 
> My *guess* is that there may be more 4xxx series ICs already in 
> people's collections, and more varieties available, but that there 
> is little difference in the new price or availability, and that 74HC 
> performs better at +5V.....
> 
> Any thoughts or opinions welcome.
> 
> cheers,
> Dave
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec 27 19:54:21 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:54:21 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <AJEOLNHABHINDODDBLBKCEOFCIAA.rtarcan@superonline.com>
Message-ID: <956171.79905.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Yes, and?

>2008-12-27 skrev rizacan <rtarcan at superonline.com>:
> Fr?n: rizacan <rtarcan at superonline.com>
> The first three stages are classic lowpass OTA filters with
> gain of 1 but
> the last OTA lowpass stage has gain of 50,75 or 100. So in
> order get the
> same cutoff frequency of  the other stages the last one 
> using 1/50, 1/75 or
> 1/100  capasitor values of the other stages.
> Thanks


      ___________________________________________________
S?k efter k?rleken!
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From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec 27 20:12:06 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:12:06 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <BLU143-W44A98E92060F63B39882DB4E80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <816364.34259.qm@web27603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

>Scott Nordlund <gsn10 at hotmail.com>
> 27 december 2008 09.11
> I think the popular "TB-303 has a 3-pole filter that
> gives it a characteristic sound" rumor has been
> debunked already. If I recall correctly it's more
> likely done for stability reasons (?).

>From where did you get the TB303 are only
3pole and that is the reason for its sound?

Tim has a rather exelent transistor-diode ladder analysis.
http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/synth/diode_18_24/diode.html
 
> This was covered in the recent analysis of transistor/diode
> ladder filters that was posted to this list, but I can't
> cite/reference it in more detail because it's not on
> this computer.
> 
> Anyway I think the different transconductance of one stage
> would be
> directly equivalent to a different capacitor value. 
> Probably this could be
> undone (to what effect?) by using a larger capacitor on
> that one stage.

It still dosent explain why Doug had a different gm on the last stage.
If it hadnt some effect he could had stayed with the 3320 design.
Dough must had some kind of reason for his design change?
 
> Independent detuning of filter stages is an interesting
> idea, though I'd imagine an analog implementation would
> present its own difficulties (four matched exponential
> amplifiers?). 

No problem, take a Lm3046 or a CA3083. JH 2044 cloe do this.

Reg
Kd


      __________________________________________________________
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From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec 27 20:15:31 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:15:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <4955EDC9.2030703@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <109785.84393.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

>Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
 
> You are correct. If all roots have the same real position,
> they will expand out from that in the shape of a circle. The
> sign of the feedback will control which orientation the
> poles will have on the circle. For a 4-pole design positive
> feedback gives poles at +/- 45 degrees and +/- 135 degrees
> while negative feedback gives poles at 0, +/- 90 degrees and
> 180 degrees. If the poles where not quite on mark (they
> never are), they will gather first and then expand out as
> expected but with a slightly skewed position and shape.

For wich filter does this apply? OTA, diode or Tr ladders?
I imagine a well balanced OTA spread their poles differently
then the diode and Tr?

Reg
KDiy


      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec 27 20:21:07 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:21:07 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <956171.79905.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

How do i calcullate the dynamic range of the LM13700?
Gm x Iabc, perhaps the difference of input mV and output V v.s Iabc?

My well used Hal Chamberlin dosent tell! :-(

KD


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Dec 27 20:29:51 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:29:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <109785.84393.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <109785.84393.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4956822F.2080909@rubidium.dyndns.org>

karl dalen skrev:
>> Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
>  
>> You are correct. If all roots have the same real position,
>> they will expand out from that in the shape of a circle. The
>> sign of the feedback will control which orientation the
>> poles will have on the circle. For a 4-pole design positive
>> feedback gives poles at +/- 45 degrees and +/- 135 degrees
>> while negative feedback gives poles at 0, +/- 90 degrees and
>> 180 degrees. If the poles where not quite on mark (they
>> never are), they will gather first and then expand out as
>> expected but with a slightly skewed position and shape.
> 
> For wich filter does this apply? OTA, diode or Tr ladders?
> I imagine a well balanced OTA spread their poles differently
> then the diode and Tr?

It's not dependent on realization topology, it is part of the general 
linear analysis.

Cheers,
Magnus


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec 27 20:45:03 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:45:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <4956822F.2080909@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <449040.44720.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

OK, i see, i tought you discussed CEMs!
Anyhow a realizated topology would be interessting to discuss! :-)

Tims page gives a neat hint!

KD

--- Den l?r 2008-12-27 skrev Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>:

> Fr?n: Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
> ?mne: Re: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
> Till: dalenkarl at yahoo.se
> Kopia: "Scott Nordlund" <gsn10 at hotmail.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Datum: l?rdag 27 december 2008 23.59
> karl dalen skrev:
> >> Magnus Danielson
> <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
> >  
> >> You are correct. If all roots have the same real
> position,
> >> they will expand out from that in the shape of a
> circle. The
> >> sign of the feedback will control which
> orientation the
> >> poles will have on the circle. For a 4-pole design
> positive
> >> feedback gives poles at +/- 45 degrees and +/- 135
> degrees
> >> while negative feedback gives poles at 0, +/- 90
> degrees and
> >> 180 degrees. If the poles where not quite on mark
> (they
> >> never are), they will gather first and then expand
> out as
> >> expected but with a slightly skewed position and
> shape.
> > 
> > For wich filter does this apply? OTA, diode or Tr
> ladders?
> > I imagine a well balanced OTA spread their poles
> differently
> > then the diode and Tr?
> 
> It's not dependent on realization topology, it is part
> of the general linear analysis.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus


      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
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From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Sat Dec 27 22:19:59 2008
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragon)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:19:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic range in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49569BFF.3090703@googlemail.com>

Hi,
when you find out I would be most interested to know as well !
regards Peter



karl dalen wrote:
> How do i calcullate the dynamic range of the LM13700?
> Gm x Iabc, perhaps the difference of input mV and output V v.s Iabc?
> 
> My well used Hal Chamberlin dosent tell! :-(
> 
> KD
> 
> 
> 


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Sat Dec 27 22:28:40 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:28:40 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <956171.79905.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <10133444AE3F4DDBB78FCF66C2E345E6@HeapSimLapTop>

Karl,

I think the LM13700 datasheet spells this out pretty well.  Here's the link:

http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM13700.pdf 

Basically, transconductance g_m = 19.2*I_abc at 25?C, where I_abc is the
bias current input, such that I_out = g_m * V_in, where V_in is the
differential voltage input.  If I'm not mistaken, that's all there is to it!

The absolute maximum bias current is 2 mA, but I think the response gets
seriously non-linear long before this limit is reached.  The linearizing
diodes fix this somewhat.

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C.  V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"

The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
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must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of karl dalen
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:21 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!

How do i calcullate the dynamic range of the LM13700?
Gm x Iabc, perhaps the difference of input mV and output V v.s Iabc?

My well used Hal Chamberlin dosent tell! :-(

KD


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052

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From jmahoney at gate.net  Sat Dec 27 22:37:24 2008
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:37:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 74HC vs. 4xxx CMOS 
In-Reply-To: <FD654D22-D427-11DD-8C4D-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
References: <FD654D22-D427-11DD-8C4D-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <200812272136.mBRLaWOt032512@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

4000-series, being older, sounds warmer.

;-P

John



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sat Dec 27 22:43:22 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:43:22 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] new tunes up
Message-ID: <4956A17A.4080305@imt.net>

sounddoctorin.com/sdstudio/samples.htm

The 'jungeux' one uses Kawai K5000 and Roland MKS70 on the strings and 
DM5 drums... and the JV1080 on the lead and guitarish kinds of sounds.  
The "Tree planted" one has a Wavestation sequence at the beginning and 
throughout, and a WS strange sound on top there with K1200 piano and 
live drums mixed with D4 played live... and a prophet 600 solo that's a 
lot of fun :-)   Anyway enjoy.  My voice started finally working good 
again and got a little time to play around with things. -Bob


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sat Dec 27 22:59:17 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:59:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: SV: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <496815.91350.qm@web27605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Horrayy, ask the past, gives 96db? Not! Well, well!
Shall we say 90db then? :-)

http://www.idea2ic.com/LM13700.html

KD


--- Den l?r 2008-12-27 skrev karl dalen <dalenkarl at yahoo.se>:

> Fr?n: karl dalen <dalenkarl at yahoo.se>
> ?mne: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
> Till: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Datum: l?rdag 27 december 2008 23.51
> How do i calcullate the dynamic range of the LM13700?
> Gm x Iabc, perhaps the difference of input mV and output V
> v.s Iabc?
> 
> My well used Hal Chamberlin dosent tell! :-(
> 
> KD
> 
> 
>      
> __________________________________________________________
> Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
> J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
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From harrybissell at wowway.com  Sun Dec 28 00:26:21 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:26:21 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <10133444AE3F4DDBB78FCF66C2E345E6@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <956171.79905.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<10133444AE3F4DDBB78FCF66C2E345E6@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <20081227232534.M73908@wowway.com>

2mA is the death limit... in practice you cannot (should not)
exceed 1mA

H^) harry



On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:28:40 -0800, David G. Dixon wrote
> Karl,
> 
> I think the LM13700 datasheet spells this out pretty well.  Here's 
> the link:
> 
> http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM13700.pdf
> 
> Basically, transconductance g_m = 19.2*I_abc at 25?C, where I_abc is 
> the bias current input, such that I_out = g_m * V_in, where V_in is the
> differential voltage input.  If I'm not mistaken, that's all there 
> is to it!
> 
> The absolute maximum bias current is 2 mA, but I think the response gets
> seriously non-linear long before this limit is reached.  The linearizing
> diodes fix this somewhat.
> 
> David G. Dixon
> Professor
> Department of Materials Engineering
> University of British Columbia
> 309-6350 Stores Road
> Vancouver, B.C.  V6T 1Z4
> Canada
> 
> Tel 1-604-822-3679
> Fax 1-604-822-3619
> 
> "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> 
> The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential 
> and intended solely for the attention and use of the named 
> addressee(s).  It must not be disclosed to any person without the 
> writer's authority.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a 
> person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you 
> are not authorized to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or 
> retain this message or any part of it.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of karl dalen
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:21 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
> 
> How do i calcullate the dynamic range of the LM13700?
> Gm x Iabc, perhaps the difference of input mV and output V v.s Iabc?
> 
> My well used Hal Chamberlin dosent tell! :-(
> 
> KD
> 
>       __________________________________________________________
> Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
> J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun Dec 28 00:52:15 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:52:15 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <20081227232534.M73908@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <BD1818F1851B4682A916FC7501F4BEE9@ice9>

Yes, if I am experimenting the first thing I do is put a 15K resistor in
series with the current input :D

(even so, I now have plenty of "mono" LM13700s)

paul perry Melbourne Australia

>-----Original Message-----
>On Behalf Of harrybissell
>2mA is the death limit... in practice you cannot (should not)
>exceed 1mA




From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sun Dec 28 03:37:56 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 02:37:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Temp compensate transconductance transistor/diode ladder?
In-Reply-To: <4956A17A.4080305@imt.net>
Message-ID: <76766.65679.qm@web27605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Transconductance cells as found in CEM IC's are often temp compensated.
Would there be any performance to gain by temp compensate the whole 
ladder (not only the expo) in a transistor or diode filter?

Reg
KD


      ___________________________________________________
S?k efter k?rleken!
Hitta din tvillingsj?l p? Yahoo! Dejting: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;185753627;24584539;x?http://se.meetic.yahoo.net/index.php?mtcmk=148783



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sun Dec 28 03:40:12 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 02:40:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Temp compensate the transistor/diode **ladder**?
In-Reply-To: <4956A17A.4080305@imt.net>
Message-ID: <334155.1341.qm@web27603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Transconductance cells as found in CEM Ic are often temp compensated.
Would there be any performance to gain by temp compensate the whole 
ladder (not only the expo) in a transistor or diode filter?

Reg
KD


      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014



From djthomaswhite at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 28 07:11:38 2008
From: djthomaswhite at yahoo.com (thomas white)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:11:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM Format Modules (For Sale)
Message-ID: <390585.70700.qm@web55002.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Hi guys,

Spam it may be, and sorry for that, but some may
appreciate what is offered. Here is a list of modules
and items I am selling. I have duplicates for almost
all the modules so I am not parting with anything due
to not being satisfied with a particular module's
function. I'm trying to fund a big new purchase and
parting with these modules is worth the trade-off for
me.

All modules were assembled and tested by me. All
modules are in 100% working condition and in excellent
shape unless noted otherwise. Prices listed are "you
pay it/it's yours" prices, but are up for negotiation
as well, although offers will be sold to the highest,
not the first, bidder. Ask any questions you have. I
can send pictures or details as needed. Unsold modules
will go to eBay. 

Blacet DSC2000 Dark Star Chaos (Noise Modulated Voice)
in MOTM Stooge Panel with sealed pots $395.00
Blacet FF2030 Final Filter (5-Pole filter with AD Env)
in MOTM Stooge Panel with sealed pots $300.00
Blacet OG Frac panels for Klangwerk, Time Machine,
Final Filter, Miniwave, Mixer/VCA, Darkstar $7.00 each

CGS Synthacon VCF in 1U MOTM FPE Panel (Freq/Res/Level
knobs) $200.00

MOTM-110 VCA Ring Mod $220.00
MOTM-320 Voltage Controlled LFO $220.00
MOTM-440 Low Pass Filter $330.00
MOTM-485 GX-1F Diode Filter $280.00
MOTM-490 Moog 104a Ladder Clone Filter $225.00

Oakley Equinoxe Phase Shifter in MOTM Stooge Panel
$200.00
Oakley Super Diode Ladder Filter "no longer
available/1 of a kind, etc" in custom MOTM FPE Panel
with sealed pots (as shown in the following Youtube
video or on my website) $450.00

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxiHEJ_24FA
Website:
http://www.naturalrhythmmusic.com/files/Oakley_303Ladder_Front_Large.JPG
or
http://www.naturalrhythmmusic.com/oakleysound.html

Also have (non-modular):

Alesis Micron (Used, but Mint) $350.00
Boss HC-2 Hand Clapper Module/Pedal (Excellent)
$150.00
CME Bitstream 3X Midi Controller (New in box) $350.00
Electro-Harmonix Q-Tron with PS and Wood Box $120.00
HHB Radius 3 "Fatman" Stereo Tube Compressor $280.00

Again, email me with offers. PayPal preferred. Buyers
pays shipping via USPS or UPS. You choose. Thanks for
looking and please email me with any questions you may
have or requests for pictures. 

Will consider offers on Frostwave Fat Controller or
Frostwave Optical Theremin unit

Thomas White
eBay Nasme: naturalrhythm
www.naturalrhythmmusic.com/diy.html







      


From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun Dec 28 13:49:16 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:49:16 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators
In-Reply-To: <495662EC.7010409@xs4all.nl>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk> <495410DC.5070607@xs4all.nl>
	<2D61E23B-DC46-47E9-A6E0-BAFAE6F18328@electricdruid.net>
	<495662EC.7010409@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <163039DB-53CA-4AD1-8A7A-639DCDB41396@electricdruid.net>

Simon,

I don't exactly how good the technique is supposed to be, but I'd be  
bloody astounded if it could generate an alias-free square wave at  
half the sample rate. After all, at half the sample rate, you've only  
got two samples to represent the whole square wave, so most of the  
clever bandlimited-step stuff is just going to get ignored.

To be honest, I''d be impressed if you could generate a noise-free  
*sine* wave at that frequency without heavy filtering afterwards. I  
know (from bitter experience!) that it isn't as easy as I thought it  
would be, even with a 60+KHz sample rate and a 2048-entry wavetable.

Still, for practical purposes, we don't need to go anywhere near as  
high as the nyquist limit. A 8KHz high note is only 1/6th of a 48KHz  
sampling rate. If it could achieve that without aliasing, it would  
qualify as a useful technique in my book.

Please ignore my comment about the trailing edge. On closer  
examination, you're dead right. I was getting fooled by the fact that  
some of the cycles show very little ripple (those sub-sample offsets  
again).

Regards,
Tom


On 27 Dec 2008, at 17:16, Simon Brouwer wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> (Was it actually your intention to respond off-list? Let me know,  
> if you don't mind I'd  like to take it to the list again)
>
> I had not changed much to the program, besides the speed at which  
> the pitch drops.
>
> If I read the program correctly, the time increment starts at 1  
> sample, and at each time increment alternatingly a positive or a  
> negative step is added. So the starting frequency should be 1/2 the  
> sampling frequency which is 44.1 kHz.
>
> Looking at the .wav file there is definitely ripple both before and  
> after each edge. Note that there is some high pass filtering in the  
> sample, which makes the tops of the square wave droop (clearly  
> visible in the end of the out1.wav clip), and that the step length  
> is small, only 8 samples at each side of an edge.
>
> I made an out3.wav which doesn't have this high pass filtering, and  
> also I experimented with step length and oversampling ratio to get  
> the aliasing down. I added these on my page http:// 
> simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/Band_limited_synthesis
>
>
> Tom Wiltshire schreef:
>> Simon,
>>
>> Good work for trying it out.
>>
>> I downloaded your out2.wav file and opened it up in a sound  
>> editor, and it looks like the pitch you're trying to generate is  
>> much higher than the sample rate. So I don't think it's a  
>> limitation of the technique necessarily. Rather, it looks like  
>> ambition got the better of you!
>>
>> What sample rate were you using? What was the highest pitch  
>> supposed to be?
>>
>> The end of the file looks much more like a bandlimited squarewave,  
>> although it doesn't have the ripple on the trailing edges, which  
>> it should. Did you use a bandlimited step for both transitions or  
>> only one of them?
>>
>> | hope these ideas give you a pointer to help you improve the  
>> output quality. Good luck.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I compiled the sample program from that page. At a high pitch  
>>> there is still a lot of aliasing audible.
>>>
>>> Listen to the .wav files at:  http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/ 
>>> index.php/Band_limited_synthesis
>>>
>>> I wonder if this is the expected result for 32 times oversampling  
>>> and a step length of 16 samples?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
>>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>
>




From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Dec 28 14:10:31 2008
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:10:31 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <287948.65279.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <801117CB97DD44CF8917061B6718EF0C@stingo>

> Did anyone figured out why Doug Curtis used such a (gm) 
> difference between the last transductor and the preceding 3 
> in his filters? Factors of 50, 75 and 100 times can be found 
> in his various designs.

OK, here's my input, though I have to stress it is more in the 'wild ass
guess' category than a highly considered and thought out response.

So, I reckon it is to do with output impedance of the last stage: for the
3320 (all stages the same), we are *explictly* shown an internal buffer
following each gm stage (Fig 1 on datasheet); for the rest (which I make to
be: 3328, 3372 x100; 3379, 3378, 3389, 3391 x75; 3394 x60; 3396 x70) it
looks to me like there is *no* buffer, but in general the output is feeding
an essentially current-input device, a VCA. Now, from the CA3080 datsheet
Figure 29, and App Note AN6668.1 Figure 1, I'm inferring that the output
resistance decreases with increased gm, and that since transconductors are
current output devices, high output impedance is preferred. Hence by
decreasing the gm of the last stage of the filters, the output impedance is
increased which in general I take it as being 'a good thing', and in
particular makes it work well with the in-built VCA which it feeds.

The datasheet for the 3378/3379, page 5, clearly states that since the gm is
decreased, then so should the capacitor value be for that stage, i.e. that
this is nothing to do with pole placement (in that the design aim *is* to
still have symmetry across all *four* poles).

As for the SSM chips that got mentioned, it is not clear to me why the 2044
might have the last cap lower (perhaps just similar reasons of impedance
internally within the chip before the output signal is picked off the last
mirror? - maybe the patent helps?). The 2045 (=2047) is a completely
different topology altogether - 2 cascaded second-order sections, and the
gain of each stage within each section is different too, giving the
flexibility (within reason) to design your own response (and likely
requiring all 4 caps different). But at least they give the design equations
so that you can do as you please, and their example ends up with 3 different
cap values to help make self-oscillation easily achievable.

Absolutely no idea how close to the mark much of this is!?

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
www.timstinchcombe.co.uk






From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Sun Dec 28 16:14:47 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:14:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators
In-Reply-To: <163039DB-53CA-4AD1-8A7A-639DCDB41396@electricdruid.net>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>	<49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk>
	<495410DC.5070607@xs4all.nl>	<2D61E23B-DC46-47E9-A6E0-BAFAE6F18328@electricdruid.net>	<495662EC.7010409@xs4all.nl>
	<163039DB-53CA-4AD1-8A7A-639DCDB41396@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <495797E7.1020603@xs4all.nl>

Hi Tom, all,

Sure, I don't expect or need alias free up to half the sample frequency. 
I am happy with a signal that sounds clean down from about halfway of my 
clips (I don't know which frequency that corresponds with). The main 
reason that the pitch starts at half the sample frequency is that it was 
this way in the original program.

Have a look at the clip I added yesterday, where the step ripple is 
weighted using a Hamming window. I was impressed by the effect.
See http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/Band_limited_synthesis

Tom Wiltshire schreef:
> Simon,
>
> I don't exactly how good the technique is supposed to be, but I'd be 
> bloody astounded if it could generate an alias-free square wave at 
> half the sample rate. After all, at half the sample rate, you've only 
> got two samples to represent the whole square wave, so most of the 
> clever bandlimited-step stuff is just going to get ignored.
>
> To be honest, I''d be impressed if you could generate a noise-free 
> *sine* wave at that frequency without heavy filtering afterwards. I 
> know (from bitter experience!) that it isn't as easy as I thought it 
> would be, even with a 60+KHz sample rate and a 2048-entry wavetable.
>
> Still, for practical purposes, we don't need to go anywhere near as 
> high as the nyquist limit. A 8KHz high note is only 1/6th of a 48KHz 
> sampling rate. If it could achieve that without aliasing, it would 
> qualify as a useful technique in my book.
>
> Please ignore my comment about the trailing edge. On closer 
> examination, you're dead right. I was getting fooled by the fact that 
> some of the cycles show very little ripple (those sub-sample offsets 
> again).
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
>
> On 27 Dec 2008, at 17:16, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> (Was it actually your intention to respond off-list? Let me know, if 
>> you don't mind I'd  like to take it to the list again)
>>
>> I had not changed much to the program, besides the speed at which the 
>> pitch drops.
>>
>> If I read the program correctly, the time increment starts at 1 
>> sample, and at each time increment alternatingly a positive or a 
>> negative step is added. So the starting frequency should be 1/2 the 
>> sampling frequency which is 44.1 kHz.
>>
>> Looking at the .wav file there is definitely ripple both before and 
>> after each edge. Note that there is some high pass filtering in the 
>> sample, which makes the tops of the square wave droop (clearly 
>> visible in the end of the out1.wav clip), and that the step length is 
>> small, only 8 samples at each side of an edge.
>>
>> I made an out3.wav which doesn't have this high pass filtering, and 
>> also I experimented with step length and oversampling ratio to get 
>> the aliasing down. I added these on my page 
>> http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/Band_limited_synthesis
>>
>>
>> Tom Wiltshire schreef:
>>> Simon,
>>>
>>> Good work for trying it out.
>>>
>>> I downloaded your out2.wav file and opened it up in a sound editor, 
>>> and it looks like the pitch you're trying to generate is much higher 
>>> than the sample rate. So I don't think it's a limitation of the 
>>> technique necessarily. Rather, it looks like ambition got the better 
>>> of you!
>>>
>>> What sample rate were you using? What was the highest pitch supposed 
>>> to be?
>>>
>>> The end of the file looks much more like a bandlimited squarewave, 
>>> although it doesn't have the ripple on the trailing edges, which it 
>>> should. Did you use a bandlimited step for both transitions or only 
>>> one of them?
>>>
>>> | hope these ideas give you a pointer to help you improve the output 
>>> quality. Good luck.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I compiled the sample program from that page. At a high pitch there 
>>>> is still a lot of aliasing audible.
>>>>
>>>> Listen to the .wav files at:  
>>>> http://simonbr.xs4all.nl/wiki/index.php/Band_limited_synthesis
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if this is the expected result for 32 times oversampling 
>>>> and a step length of 16 samples?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
>>>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>


-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sun Dec 28 21:02:50 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:02:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Gristles... going BoingBoing
Message-ID: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Hi!

There is an article on Throbbing Gristles on Boing-Boing causing a lot 
of traffic to Anders' C.A.G. site.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/27/throbbing-gristles-g.html

Current 611 downloads of the article linked.

Cheers,
Magnus


From foda01 at epix.net  Sun Dec 28 22:51:54 2008
From: foda01 at epix.net (DAF)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:51:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>

Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled lfo that 
uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an OTA-based 
design in the past, but I want to design around more generic parts.  I seem 
to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't neet expo response or 
temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2 to 10 Hz response range.  I 
don't want to use any specialty chips or OTA's, just discrete transistors 
and op-amps.   Any help greatly appreciated.

thanks,
Dave 



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sun Dec 28 23:08:30 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:08:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
Message-ID: <4957F8DE.3030800@rubidium.dyndns.org>

DAF skrev:
> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled lfo 
> that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an 
> OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more generic 
> parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't 
> neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2 to 
> 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use any specialty chips or OTA's, 
> just discrete transistors and op-amps.   Any help greatly appreciated.

You can build a simple OTA with 4 transistors, two as a input 
differential pair and one as a current-mirror on top of the collectors 
of the differential pair. You find this in the Buchla 258 oscillator for 
instance:
http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2580_1_200.jpg

You can use that transistor setup in place of traditional OTAs. However, 
for a propper dynamic range you would need two additional current 
mirrors to re-create the internal layout of the CA3080 or similar.

But then again, LM13700 and NE5517 is around, but I think just that 
chunk of 4 transistors might be what you need.

Cheers,
Magnus


From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Sun Dec 28 23:12:27 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 22:12:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <801117CB97DD44CF8917061B6718EF0C@stingo>
Message-ID: <808247.37680.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

> So, I reckon it is to do with output impedance of the last
> stage: Hence by  decreasing the gm of the last stage of >the filters,
>the  output impedance is  increased which in general I take it as
>being 'a good thing', and in particular makes it work well with the 
>in-built VCA which it feeds.

>The 2045 (=2047) is a  completely  different topology altogether 
>- 2 cascaded second-order  sections, and the

Curtis latest filters was also second order with variable response.
3385, 3387 etc. btw 3328 did have a buffer and it makes sence just
as with the 3320 *standalone* VCF.
 
> Absolutely no idea how close to the mark much of this is!?

Seams like a most resonable idea/guess! Perhaps one of his
patents could give futher meat to your idea? US04514704.

Reg
KD



      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From gothmagog at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 28 23:19:03 2008
From: gothmagog at yahoo.com (Michael Bechard)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:19:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] MIDImplant
Message-ID: <135790.47133.qm@web51311.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi all, I'm new to the list. I posted this topic on electro-music (http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-31039.html) and it was recommended I post it here too, so here goes.

Does anybody have any experience here with the
MIDImplant MIDI2CV interface (http://www.midimplant.com/)? I'm looking
for a cheap MIDI/CV interface for my semi-modular I'm building; I don't
need oogobs of channels or features, just something cheap and easy.
Seems cheap at 80 euros, but I need to know if it works with MIDI
keyboards that send note ON signals at zero velocity when a note is
released instead of note OFF. I need this for my keyboard, otherwise, I
would probably build the interface on MFOS. 

Anybody have any alternate suggestions for a cheap and easy MIDI to CV interface?

Thanks,
Michael



      


From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Mon Dec 29 00:12:03 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:12:03 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
References: <84AA58FF-66EE-4F8A-95A5-4D4DF2122CA1@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <E734C3A9-785B-481F-9366-8342A4A6D468@shaw.ca>

On 28-Dec-08, at 2:08 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

> DAF skrev:
>> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled  
>> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used  
>> an OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more  
>> generic parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete  
>> JFET?  I don't neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am  
>> looking for about a 2 to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use  
>> any specialty chips or OTA's, just discrete transistors and op- 
>> amps.   Any help greatly appreciated.
>
> You can build a simple OTA with 4 transistors, two as a input  
> differential pair and one as a current-mirror on top of the  
> collectors of the differential pair. You find this in the Buchla 258  
> oscillator for instance:
> http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2580_1_200.jpg
>
> You can use that transistor setup in place of traditional OTAs.  
> However, for a propper dynamic range you would need two additional  
> current mirrors to re-create the internal layout of the CA3080 or  
> similar.

The circuit at http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/13360/ca3080.pdf 
  does not show additional current mirrors but does show an  
interesting output drive. The long tail pair and bias could be used as  
a starting point for a 3 transistor OTA. With resistors in the  
collector lines, this could be followed with an op-amp.

> But then again, LM13700 and NE5517 is around, but I think just that  
> chunk of 4 transistors might be what you need.

Veronica




From foda01 at epix.net  Mon Dec 29 00:17:18 2008
From: foda01 at epix.net (DAF)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 18:17:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
References: <84AA58FF-66EE-4F8A-95A5-4D4DF2122CA1@shaw.ca>
	<E734C3A9-785B-481F-9366-8342A4A6D468@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <002c01c96942$6de45b90$01fea8c0@colossus>

thanks, I will check those out - but wasn't there a simpler one, if I am 
remembering correctly, using a JFET as the transconductance element?  Also I 
only really need triangle output waveforms.

thanks,
Dave


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Veronica Merryfield" <veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca>
To: "synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO


> On 28-Dec-08, at 2:08 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
>
>> DAF skrev:
>>> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled
>>> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used
>>> an OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more
>>> generic parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete
>>> JFET?  I don't neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am
>>> looking for about a 2 to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use
>>> any specialty chips or OTA's, just discrete transistors and op-
>>> amps.   Any help greatly appreciated.
>>
>> You can build a simple OTA with 4 transistors, two as a input
>> differential pair and one as a current-mirror on top of the
>> collectors of the differential pair. You find this in the Buchla 258
>> oscillator for instance:
>> http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2580_1_200.jpg
>>
>> You can use that transistor setup in place of traditional OTAs.
>> However, for a propper dynamic range you would need two additional
>> current mirrors to re-create the internal layout of the CA3080 or
>> similar.
>
> The circuit at http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/13360/ca3080.pdf
>  does not show additional current mirrors but does show an
> interesting output drive. The long tail pair and bias could be used as
> a starting point for a 3 transistor OTA. With resistors in the
> collector lines, this could be followed with an op-amp.
>
>> But then again, LM13700 and NE5517 is around, but I think just that
>> chunk of 4 transistors might be what you need.
>
> Veronica
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 12/28/2008 
2:23 PM



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 29 01:26:18 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:26:18 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <002c01c96942$6de45b90$01fea8c0@colossus>
References: <84AA58FF-66EE-4F8A-95A5-4D4DF2122CA1@shaw.ca>
	<E734C3A9-785B-481F-9366-8342A4A6D468@shaw.ca>
	<002c01c96942$6de45b90$01fea8c0@colossus>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W1CAC5DB5B0D2907B87A4AC8E60@phx.gbl>


i was looking over THE korg X911 the other day and thought (might be wrong) that the VCO was SIMPLY A FEW TRANSISTORS, A JEFT AND AN OPAMP? (AS WELL AS SOME DIVIDERS FOR DIFFERENT OCTAVES?) MIGHT WORK AS A STARTING POINT?

it got me curious...i have been wanting to find tiny discrete noise makers for awhile (been playing with UJT sawtooth gens and NEgistor oscillators as well)

thanks




From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon Dec 29 02:57:13 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:57:13 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W1CAC5DB5B0D2907B87A4AC8E60@phx.gbl>
References: <84AA58FF-66EE-4F8A-95A5-4D4DF2122CA1@shaw.ca>
	<E734C3A9-785B-481F-9366-8342A4A6D468@shaw.ca>
	<002c01c96942$6de45b90$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<BAY144-W1CAC5DB5B0D2907B87A4AC8E60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5F696A05-AE0F-4002-A5AB-65D4A0153AA7@ece.gatech.edu>


On Dec 28, 2008, at 7:26 PM, Dan Snazelle wrote:

> i was looking over THE korg X911 the other day and thought (might be  
> wrong) that the VCO was SIMPLY A FEW TRANSISTORS, A JEFT AND AN  
> OPAMP? (AS WELL AS SOME DIVIDERS FOR DIFFERENT OCTAVES?) MIGHT WORK  
> AS A STARTING POINT?

Dunno about the X911, but a lot of the old Korg's I've seen use BJTs  
set up in a "thyristor" configuration.

- Aaron


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Dec 29 08:48:34 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:48:34 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
Message-ID: <76CC99B9F7854F9DBB6AEFBC8405FF91@HeapSimLapTop>

Dave,

Check out Ray Wilson's site, Music From Outer Space.  Here's a link to a
simple VCLFO using only opamps and transistors:

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/lfo.html

It's basically a simple ramp oscillator with some simple wave shaping
circuitry.  There's one OTA there, but only for sine shaping, which you
don't want.

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C.  V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"

The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of DAF
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:52 PM
To: sdiy
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO

Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled lfo that

uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an OTA-based 
design in the past, but I want to design around more generic parts.  I seem 
to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't neet expo response or 
temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2 to 10 Hz response range.  I 
don't want to use any specialty chips or OTA's, just discrete transistors 
and op-amps.   Any help greatly appreciated.

thanks,
Dave 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Dec 29 09:13:47 2008
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:13:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
Message-ID: <495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>

Here is one:

http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/lfo/lfo1-asm2-cct.pdf


DAF schreef:
> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled 
> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an 
> OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more generic 
> parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't 
> neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2 
> to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use any specialty chips or 
> OTA's, just discrete transistors and op-amps.   Any help greatly 
> appreciated.
>
> thanks,
> Dave


-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon Dec 29 09:22:36 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:22:36 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla Easel sequencer & CMOS output short circuit protection
In-Reply-To: <570_1230536954_mBT7msIS004239_76CC99B9F7854F9DBB6AEFBC8405FF91@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<570_1230536954_mBT7msIS004239_76CC99B9F7854F9DBB6AEFBC8405FF91@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <D22257C0-37A4-4E3F-AB07-EE489B878577@ece.gatech.edu>

I need to go into Buchla PCB layout rehab. The first step is admitting  
you have a problem.

Anyway, having finished laying out a board for the Easel's Pulser,  
I've moved on and have the schematic for the 5-Stage Sequencer in  
Eagle. I've included the sequencer output summing circuitry, which is  
on a different board in the Easel, on this board.

The schematic is at

http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2080_1_200.jpg

Two questions:

1) There's a +15 V and +5 V brought to this board, along with a note  
about "eliminating the +5 V" supply by changing some things and using  
a +12V supply for the LEDs.

Anyone know what the chips are actually powered off of? It's a bit  
ambiguous. If the +5 V volt supply was really _just_ used for the  
LEDs, I wouldn't see any reason to change R9 and R19... which makes me  
suspect that the rest of the circuit is powered off the +5 V (or +12  
V)... but I really don't know.

2) In the easel, the various NOR gate outputs at the top of the  
schematic all go to other parts of the Easel. Here, I want it to be  
able to operate as a stand alone module, so I'm bringing all those  
outputs to outside jacks (if the user wants them).

Anyway, is it safe for me to do that, or should I put some sort of  
short-circuit protection resistor at the output?

- Aaron


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Dec 29 11:12:42 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:12:42 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDImplant
In-Reply-To: <135790.47133.qm@web51311.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <135790.47133.qm@web51311.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4958A29A.3000807@burnit.co.uk>

This is a good one, works for both types of note off message, good 
accuracy, fully featured, etc.
http://www.kentonuk.com/digital_interfaces_converters/midi_cv_converters_extras/prosolo.html

A bit more expensive (but not much with the current GBP-EUR rate) - 
comes with a nice case & PSU, all ready to go.

Seb


Michael Bechard wrote:
> Hi all, I'm new to the list. I posted this topic on electro-music (http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-31039.html) and it was recommended I post it here too, so here goes.
>
> Does anybody have any experience here with the
> MIDImplant MIDI2CV interface (http://www.midimplant.com/)? I'm looking
> for a cheap MIDI/CV interface for my semi-modular I'm building; I don't
> need oogobs of channels or features, just something cheap and easy.
> Seems cheap at 80 euros, but I need to know if it works with MIDI
> keyboards that send note ON signals at zero velocity when a note is
> released instead of note OFF. I need this for my keyboard, otherwise, I
> would probably build the interface on MFOS. 
>
> Anybody have any alternate suggestions for a cheap and easy MIDI to CV interface?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>   




From czvekan at gmail.com  Mon Dec 29 13:29:42 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:29:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Chroma Polaris patches
Message-ID: <A1F83B30-7C4E-4106-B8E2-3F17FD864E15@gmail.com>

Hi Group,

I am looking for some Chroma Polaris patches. Maybe factory originals  
or maybe self made . Cause what I have in there for almost a decade  
now is totally ridiculous .


Many thanks

Csaba 


From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 29 14:23:17 2008
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 05:23:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Chroma Polaris patches
In-Reply-To: <A1F83B30-7C4E-4106-B8E2-3F17FD864E15@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <981890.91087.qm@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

On a synth with an interface like the Polaris with sliders for every parameter isn't it pretty easy to make your own sounds?


--- On Mon, 12/29/08, Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sdiy] Chroma Polaris patches
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 4:29 AM
> Hi Group,
> 
> I am looking for some Chroma Polaris patches. Maybe factory
> originals  
> or maybe self made . Cause what I have in there for almost
>  decade  
> now is totally ridiculous .
> 
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Csaba 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From foda01 at epix.net  Mon Dec 29 14:45:02 2008
From: foda01 at epix.net (DAF)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:45:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>

thanks for all of the suggestions thus far - I am particularly intrigued by 
the UJT voltage-controlled relaxation osc.
especially because of the low parts count, but I am wondering if
the UJT is also going the way of the dodo bird, and also is the control of 
frequency linear over a wide enough range (I see it used in
synths that use octave divider schemes)?

In that Ray Wilson schematic, he says for a VCLFO, leave out the parts in 
RED; are you to join the resulting gaps together on the wires shown 
remaining?

Dave




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Brouwer" <simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl>
To: "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO


> Here is one:
>
> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/lfo/lfo1-asm2-cct.pdf
>
>
> DAF schreef:
>> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled
>> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an
>> OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more generic
>> parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't
>> neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2
>> to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use any specialty chips or
>> OTA's, just discrete transistors and op-amps.   Any help greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Dave
>
>
> -- 
> Vriendelijke groet,
> Simon Brouwer.
>
> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 12/28/2008 
2:23 PM



From czvekan at gmail.com  Mon Dec 29 15:03:17 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:03:17 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Chroma Polaris patches
In-Reply-To: <981890.91087.qm@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <981890.91087.qm@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2F1CA2EB-17C8-4303-8698-B93B2C1FCDDF@gmail.com>

I know , Doug that's not the problem. I saw someone play it with the  
original factory sounds and I liked it.
That's why I am asking.

Csaba


On Dec 29, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Doug Terrebonne wrote:

> On a synth with an interface like the Polaris with sliders for every  
> parameter isn't it pretty easy to make your own sounds?
>
>
> --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [sdiy] Chroma Polaris patches
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 4:29 AM
>> Hi Group,
>>
>> I am looking for some Chroma Polaris patches. Maybe factory
>> originals
>> or maybe self made . Cause what I have in there for almost
>> decade
>> now is totally ridiculous .
>>
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Csaba
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Mon Dec 29 15:47:47 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:47:47 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators
In-Reply-To: <163039DB-53CA-4AD1-8A7A-639DCDB41396@electricdruid.net>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk> <495410DC.5070607@xs4all.nl>
	<2D61E23B-DC46-47E9-A6E0-BAFAE6F18328@electricdruid.net>
	<495662EC.7010409@xs4all.nl>
	<163039DB-53CA-4AD1-8A7A-639DCDB41396@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812291644040.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> I don't exactly how good the technique is supposed to be, but I'd be bloody 
> astounded if it could generate an alias-free square wave at half the sample 
> rate.

Getting right up to nyquist is somewhat tricky, but say 0.95x nyquist is 
no problem (wasteful for resources but in no way difficult). With BLEP the 
problem is reduced to FIR filter design.

> To be honest, I''d be impressed if you could generate a noise-free 
> *sine* wave at that frequency without heavy filtering afterwards. I know 
> (from bitter experience!) that it isn't as easy as I thought it would 
> be, even with a 60+KHz sample rate and a 2048-entry wavetable.

You did use interpolation I hope?
With linear interp, you shouldn't need larger than 64..256 entry lookup 
table.

I'll try to get around to posting simple example code for alias free 
sawtooth synthesis with BLEP once I get back from holidays.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Mon Dec 29 16:39:01 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:39:01 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>
	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>
Message-ID: <20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>

There is a triangle wave VCO that uses two opamps and one
transistor. The CV is input to the first opamp (an inverting
integrator) through two resistors, one to inverting and one to non-inverting.
A transistor shunts the non-inverting side to ground. Unequal
resistors make the ramps equal in time. The other opamp is a schmitt
trigger.

Classic circuit suffers from relatively small tuning range (maybe 10-20:1)
because eventually the control voltage must get really large to get the
current in.  Current controlled oscillators have much wider range.

I think this is in the National Semiconductor Linear Apps databook...
but I can't find it right now.

H^) harry



On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:45:02 -0500, DAF wrote
> thanks for all of the suggestions thus far - I am particularly 
> intrigued by the UJT voltage-controlled relaxation osc. especially 
> because of the low parts count, but I am wondering if the UJT is 
> also going the way of the dodo bird, and also is the control of 
> frequency linear over a wide enough range (I see it used in synths 
> that use octave divider schemes)?
> 
> In that Ray Wilson schematic, he says for a VCLFO, leave out the 
> parts in RED; are you to join the resulting gaps together on the 
> wires shown remaining?
> 
> Dave
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Simon Brouwer" <simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl>
> To: "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
> 
> > Here is one:
> >
> > http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/lfo/lfo1-asm2-cct.pdf
> >
> >
> > DAF schreef:
> >> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled
> >> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an
> >> OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more generic
> >> parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't
> >> neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2
> >> to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use any specialty chips or
> >> OTA's, just discrete transistors and op-amps.   Any help greatly
> >> appreciated.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Dave
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Vriendelijke groet,
> > Simon Brouwer.
> >
> > | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 
> 12/28/2008 
> 2:23 PM
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Mon Dec 29 16:40:58 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:40:58 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla Easel sequencer & CMOS output short circuit
	protection
In-Reply-To: <D22257C0-37A4-4E3F-AB07-EE489B878577@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<570_1230536954_mBT7msIS004239_76CC99B9F7854F9DBB6AEFBC8405FF91@HeapSimLapTop>
	<D22257C0-37A4-4E3F-AB07-EE489B878577@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20081229153950.M14105@wowway.com>

I would always include a series resistor on a CMOS output. Probably
100 ohms would be the minimum (it would not usually be shorted often).
1K is better.

H^) harry


On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:22:36 -0500, Aaron Lanterman wrote
> I need to go into Buchla PCB layout rehab. The first step is 
> admitting  you have a problem.
> 
> Anyway, having finished laying out a board for the Easel's Pulser,  
> I've moved on and have the schematic for the 5-Stage Sequencer in  
> Eagle. I've included the sequencer output summing circuitry, which 
> is  on a different board in the Easel, on this board.
> 
> The schematic is at
> 
> http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2080_1_200.jpg
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 1) There's a +15 V and +5 V brought to this board, along with a note 
>  about "eliminating the +5 V" supply by changing some things and 
> using  a +12V supply for the LEDs.
> 
> Anyone know what the chips are actually powered off of? It's a bit  
> ambiguous. If the +5 V volt supply was really _just_ used for the  
> LEDs, I wouldn't see any reason to change R9 and R19... which makes 
> me  suspect that the rest of the circuit is powered off the +5 V (or 
> +12  V)... but I really don't know.
> 
> 2) In the easel, the various NOR gate outputs at the top of the  
> schematic all go to other parts of the Easel. Here, I want it to be  
> able to operate as a stand alone module, so I'm bringing all those  
> outputs to outside jacks (if the user wants them).
> 
> Anyway, is it safe for me to do that, or should I put some sort of  
> short-circuit protection resistor at the output?
> 
> - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Dec 29 16:46:50 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:46:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators
Message-ID: <200812291646.mBTGkoqD018344@linux7.lan>

Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>
>On 29 Dec 2008, at 14:47, Antti Huovilainen wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>>
>>> I don't exactly how good the technique is supposed to be, but I'd  
>>> be bloody astounded if it could generate an alias-free square wave  
>>> at half the sample rate.
>>
>> Getting right up to nyquist is somewhat tricky, but say 0.95x  
>> nyquist is no problem (wasteful for resources but in no way  
>> difficult). With BLEP the problem is reduced to FIR filter design.
>
>0.95x nyquist? Impressed!
>
>>> To be honest, I''d be impressed if you could generate a noise-free  
>>> *sine* wave at that frequency without heavy filtering afterwards.  
>>> I know (from bitter experience!) that it isn't as easy as I  
>>> thought it would be, even with a 60+KHz sample rate and a 2048- 
>>> entry wavetable.
>>
>> You did use interpolation I hope?
>> With linear interp, you shouldn't need larger than 64..256 entry  
>> lookup table.
>
>No, I didn't have time. Hence the use of such a large table. The  
>heavy oversampling was an attempt to reduce errors another way.
>
>> I'll try to get around to posting simple example code for alias  
>> free sawtooth synthesis with BLEP once I get back from holidays.
>
>Your stuff is always interesting, Antti.
>
>Tom

Antti, I am also very interested in this.  I'm curious to see the code so that I
understand what you mean by "resource wasteful".  I'm mainly interested in using
FPGAs which can be resource rich to start with, so some "waste" to get something
good isn't really wasteful (c:

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Dec 29 17:24:56 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:24:56 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital oscillators
In-Reply-To: <alpine.SOC.1.99.0812291644040.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <E6D09FDE32854A84A5C454D884D77695@ice9>
	<808FBF4F-1211-4E17-A65E-D4B22A0B565B@electricdruid.net>
	<494FAD5A.4050503@burnit.co.uk>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812230348420.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<49516694.30309@burnit.co.uk> <495410DC.5070607@xs4all.nl>
	<2D61E23B-DC46-47E9-A6E0-BAFAE6F18328@electricdruid.net>
	<495662EC.7010409@xs4all.nl>
	<163039DB-53CA-4AD1-8A7A-639DCDB41396@electricdruid.net>
	<alpine.SOC.1.99.0812291644040.1071@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <6BDBC00F-C868-4D29-8DCA-6790B0F0F87C@electricdruid.net>


On 29 Dec 2008, at 14:47, Antti Huovilainen wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
>> I don't exactly how good the technique is supposed to be, but I'd  
>> be bloody astounded if it could generate an alias-free square wave  
>> at half the sample rate.
>
> Getting right up to nyquist is somewhat tricky, but say 0.95x  
> nyquist is no problem (wasteful for resources but in no way  
> difficult). With BLEP the problem is reduced to FIR filter design.

0.95x nyquist? Impressed!

>> To be honest, I''d be impressed if you could generate a noise-free  
>> *sine* wave at that frequency without heavy filtering afterwards.  
>> I know (from bitter experience!) that it isn't as easy as I  
>> thought it would be, even with a 60+KHz sample rate and a 2048- 
>> entry wavetable.
>
> You did use interpolation I hope?
> With linear interp, you shouldn't need larger than 64..256 entry  
> lookup table.

No, I didn't have time. Hence the use of such a large table. The  
heavy oversampling was an attempt to reduce errors another way.

> I'll try to get around to posting simple example code for alias  
> free sawtooth synthesis with BLEP once I get back from holidays.

Your stuff is always interesting, Antti.

Tom




From rdrake at data2action.com  Mon Dec 29 19:58:20 2008
From: rdrake at data2action.com (rdrake)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:58:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 8281 divider IC
Message-ID: <20081229185821.77572.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>

anyone know of a source, or modern substitute, for National 8281 TTL divider IC?

b


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon Dec 29 20:26:20 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:26:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <10249_1230413380_mBRLTMko015055_10133444AE3F4DDBB78FCF66C2E345E6@HeapSimLapTop>
References: <956171.79905.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<10249_1230413380_mBRLTMko015055_10133444AE3F4DDBB78FCF66C2E345E6@HeapSimLapTop>
Message-ID: <4BEE7EF2-F557-4EAD-914B-8A17F19A1A42@ece.gatech.edu>

On Dec 27, 2008, at 4:28 PM, David G. Dixon wrote:

> Basically, transconductance g_m = 19.2*I_abc at 25?C, where I_abc is  
> the
> bias current input, such that I_out = g_m * V_in, where V_in is the
> differential voltage input.  If I'm not mistaken, that's all there  
> is to it!
>
> The absolute maximum bias current is 2 mA, but I think the response  
> gets
> seriously non-linear long before this limit is reached.  The  
> linearizing
> diodes fix this somewhat.


Do the linearizing diodes linearize things re: the voltage input or  
the current control input? I thought it was the former.

- Aaron


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Mon Dec 29 21:04:01 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:04:01 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <4BEE7EF2-F557-4EAD-914B-8A17F19A1A42@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <956171.79905.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<10249_1230413380_mBRLTMko015055_10133444AE3F4DDBB78FCF66C2E345E6@HeapSimLapTop>
	<4BEE7EF2-F557-4EAD-914B-8A17F19A1A42@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081229130313.02094220@mail.comcast.net>

At 12:26 PM 12/29/2008, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

>Do the linearizing diodes linearize things re: the voltage input or
>the current control input? I thought it was the former.

Correct, the voltage input. 



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Dec 29 21:19:37 2008
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:19:37 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <11014_1230578841_1230578841_4BEE7EF2-F557-4EAD-914B-8A17F19A1A42@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <956171.79905.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<10249_1230413380_mBRLTMko015055_10133444AE3F4DDBB78FCF66C2E345E6@HeapSimLapTop>
	<11014_1230578841_1230578841_4BEE7EF2-F557-4EAD-914B-8A17F19A1A42@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <BBFEA10DE0914FD58A8E398FDA08A4A4@HeapSimLapTop>

Yes, the diodes correct the nonlinear response of transconductance to large
differential input voltages.  Of course, any non-linearity associated with
high input voltage will be amplified at high gain...

On Dec 27, 2008, at 4:28 PM, David G. Dixon wrote:

> Basically, transconductance g_m = 19.2*I_abc at 25?C, where I_abc is  
> the
> bias current input, such that I_out = g_m * V_in, where V_in is the
> differential voltage input.  If I'm not mistaken, that's all there  
> is to it!
>
> The absolute maximum bias current is 2 mA, but I think the response  
> gets
> seriously non-linear long before this limit is reached.  The  
> linearizing
> diodes fix this somewhat.


Do the linearizing diodes linearize things re: the voltage input or  
the current control input? I thought it was the former.

- Aaron
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon Dec 29 22:19:59 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:19:59 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] 8281 divider IC
In-Reply-To: <20081229185821.77572.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <9B0542773B634FBD93E0BD8023AF30AB@ice9>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor-transistor_logic
Well worth reading, 

www-gth.die.upm.es/~macias/docencia/datasheets/info-familias/intro-to-hct.pd
f  Nat Semi app note 368 on subbing some CMOS varieties.

>-----Original Message-----
>On Behalf Of rdrake
>anyone know of a source, or modern substitute, for National 8281 TTL
>divider IC?




From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Mon Dec 29 22:51:59 2008
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:51:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>

harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:
> There is a triangle wave VCO that uses two opamps and one
> transistor. The CV is input to the first opamp (an inverting
> integrator) through two resistors, one to inverting and one to non-inverting.
> A transistor shunts the non-inverting side to ground. Unequal
> resistors make the ramps equal in time. The other opamp is a schmitt
> trigger.
>
> Classic circuit suffers from relatively small tuning range (maybe 10-20:1)
> because eventually the control voltage must get really large to get the
> current in.  Current controlled oscillators have much wider range.
>
> I think this is in the National Semiconductor Linear Apps databook...
> but I can't find it right now.
>
>   

It is in that databook. I designed a variation of this circuit into a 
small noise instrument I built for somebody. They work great for sound 
design and noise, but definitely are not able to be tuned to 1V/oct or 
any standard that I recognized.

TOny

> H^) harry
>
>
>
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:45:02 -0500, DAF wrote
>   
>> thanks for all of the suggestions thus far - I am particularly 
>> intrigued by the UJT voltage-controlled relaxation osc. especially 
>> because of the low parts count, but I am wondering if the UJT is 
>> also going the way of the dodo bird, and also is the control of 
>> frequency linear over a wide enough range (I see it used in synths 
>> that use octave divider schemes)?
>>
>> In that Ray Wilson schematic, he says for a VCLFO, leave out the 
>> parts in RED; are you to join the resulting gaps together on the 
>> wires shown remaining?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Simon Brouwer" <simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl>
>> To: "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
>>
>>     
>>> Here is one:
>>>
>>> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/lfo/lfo1-asm2-cct.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> DAF schreef:
>>>       
>>>> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled
>>>> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an
>>>> OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more generic
>>>> parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't
>>>> neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2
>>>> to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use any specialty chips or
>>>> OTA's, just discrete transistors and op-amps.   Any help greatly
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> Dave
>>>>         
>>> -- 
>>> Vriendelijke groet,
>>> Simon Brouwer.
>>>
>>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>       
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 
>> 12/28/2008 
>> 2:23 PM
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>     
>
>
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Mon Dec 29 22:54:52 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:54:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamics in OTA's!
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20081229130313.02094220@mail.comcast.net>
References: <956171.79905.qm@web27607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>	<135733.31533.qm@web27604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>	<10249_1230413380_mBRLTMko015055_10133444AE3F4DDBB78FCF66C2E345E6@HeapSimLapTop>	<4BEE7EF2-F557-4EAD-914B-8A17F19A1A42@ece.gatech.edu>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20081229130313.02094220@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4959472C.8000909@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Ian Fritz skrev:
> At 12:26 PM 12/29/2008, Aaron Lanterman wrote:
> 
>> Do the linearizing diodes linearize things re: the voltage input or
>> the current control input? I thought it was the former.
> 
> Correct, the voltage input.

Actually, the diffrential input should become current inputs for propper 
linearization. For best operation a diffrential current drive should be 
applied. So saying voltage inputs and current input becomes ambigous to 
say the least.

Cheers,
Magnus


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 30 01:00:38 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:00:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>
	<4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>


I am a bit confused as I have the Linear Applications Handbook VOL one from 1977 and the only triangle VCO is lm3900 based.
Do i have the wrong volume?

I want to get more of these books so any info would be great!

thanks



also...TOny...is there an APP note number for the mentioned circuit?

thanks

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 




> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:51:59 -0500
> From: tony at makenoisemusic.com
> To: harrybissell at wowway.com
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> 
> harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:
>> There is a triangle wave VCO that uses two opamps and one
>> transistor. The CV is input to the first opamp (an inverting
>> integrator) through two resistors, one to inverting and one to non-inverting.
>> A transistor shunts the non-inverting side to ground. Unequal
>> resistors make the ramps equal in time. The other opamp is a schmitt
>> trigger.
>>
>> Classic circuit suffers from relatively small tuning range (maybe 10-20:1)
>> because eventually the control voltage must get really large to get the
>> current in.  Current controlled oscillators have much wider range.
>>
>> I think this is in the National Semiconductor Linear Apps databook...
>> but I can't find it right now.
>>
>>   
> 
> It is in that databook. I designed a variation of this circuit into a 
> small noise instrument I built for somebody. They work great for sound 
> design and noise, but definitely are not able to be tuned to 1V/oct or 
> any standard that I recognized.
> 
> TOny
> 
>> H^) harry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:45:02 -0500, DAF wrote
>>   
>>> thanks for all of the suggestions thus far - I am particularly 
>>> intrigued by the UJT voltage-controlled relaxation osc. especially 
>>> because of the low parts count, but I am wondering if the UJT is 
>>> also going the way of the dodo bird, and also is the control of 
>>> frequency linear over a wide enough range (I see it used in synths 
>>> that use octave divider schemes)?
>>>
>>> In that Ray Wilson schematic, he says for a VCLFO, leave out the 
>>> parts in RED; are you to join the resulting gaps together on the 
>>> wires shown remaining?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Simon Brouwer" 
>>> To: "sdiy" 
>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:13 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
>>>
>>>     
>>>> Here is one:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/lfo/lfo1-asm2-cct.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DAF schreef:
>>>>       
>>>>> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled
>>>>> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an
>>>>> OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more generic
>>>>> parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't
>>>>> neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2
>>>>> to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use any specialty chips or
>>>>> OTA's, just discrete transistors and op-amps.   Any help greatly
>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>         
>>>> -- 
>>>> Vriendelijke groet,
>>>> Simon Brouwer.
>>>>
>>>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>>       
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 
>>> 12/28/2008 
>>> 2:23 PM
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>     
>>
>>
>> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From ben at stuyts.nl  Tue Dec 30 01:33:14 2008
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:33:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Chroma Polaris patches
In-Reply-To: <A1F83B30-7C4E-4106-B8E2-3F17FD864E15@gmail.com>
References: <A1F83B30-7C4E-4106-B8E2-3F17FD864E15@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94F6A65C-D511-4486-8D5F-0A3358C800BC@stuyts.nl>

Hi Csaba,

On 29 dec 2008, at 13:29, Csaba Zvekan wrote:

> I am looking for some Chroma Polaris patches. Maybe factory  
> originals or maybe self made . Cause what I have in there for almost  
> a decade now is totally ridiculous .

Have you looked here? http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarispatches

Kind regards,
Ben



From dalenkarl at yahoo.se  Tue Dec 30 02:26:21 2008
From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se (karl dalen)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:26:21 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <E8081AE831F642DE8FCBC1CADC77074B@stingo>
Message-ID: <798435.49916.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Tim!

> However the 3328 remains as an oddity, in that it is also a dedicated filter
>chip, but without the inter-stage buffering - maybe it was just cheaper than the 3320?

I would guess a yes on that!

>It is interesting to me (as someone late on the synth scene) that the 3320
>seems to have outlasted the 3328, at least as it appears to me, as there are
>still lots of filters around based on it (e.g. many of the Doepfer ones).

One speculation on this may be that the 3320 was his first VCF design,
and also became a contender to Dave Rossums even earlier 2044 design.

Being the first VCF's on a rising market P1,P5,OB8 etc, 3320 and Polysix
2044,etc. Volumes would have been quite large, way larger then the 3328
wich would have been sort of late follow'er up to the 3320. There are at
least 4 or even 5 years between these two VCF designs and the only synths
i know using the 3328 are the Bitt 99/01 and Mirage so the manufacturing
volumes would have been larger for the 3320 i suppose! 

Regarding to the P5 and P10 schematics 3320 was used at least around 1980.
P1 was manufactured in volumes of more then 10k units! It would have been
interessting to know wich CEM chip sold the most?

>Still, my idea might be intact - it will be interesting to see if anyone
>else refutes it over the next few days!

Indeed, so far it's supricingly silent! :-)

Btw, are there any other Curtis patents around?

Reg
KD


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From synth1 at airmail.net  Tue Dec 30 02:42:17 2008
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:42:17 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
References: <798435.49916.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <12C956C3F5D84308972C574295F3023D@curley>

a) the CEM3328 was specifically designed for the Mirage.

b) I would imaginge the best-selling chips would be

#1 - 3340 VCO
#2 - 3310 EG
#3 - 3320 VCF
#4 - 3360 VCA
#5 - close tie between the 3372 and the 3374

Paul S.
/Doug & I have 3 patents together, but they have *nothing* to do with synths 
:) 



From patchell at cox.net  Tue Dec 30 05:19:41 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:19:41 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>	<4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4959A15D.2070505@cox.net>

In the National 1982 Linear Databook, on page 3-223, you will find the 
aforementioned two opamp, 1 transistor triangle oscillator.

I have a lot of affection for this oscillator.  I built the Paia2700 
electronics in 1973 form the Radio Electronics articles.  The original 
paia 2700 VCO just did not work very good.  I made my own oscillator 
based on this circuit...it worked much better...and also had a cleaner 
triangle...I just added a simple trianagle to sawtooth converter and 
pwm...and I had a pretty niftly little oscillator....

Still have it somewhere...oh yeah, it was built with a free sample of 
the then brand new LM324...

-Jim

Dan Snazelle wrote:
> I am a bit confused as I have the Linear Applications Handbook VOL one from 1977 and the only triangle VCO is lm3900 based.
> Do i have the wrong volume?
> 
> I want to get more of these books so any info would be great!
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> also...TOny...is there an APP note number for the mentioned circuit?
> 
> thanks
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
> 
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:51:59 -0500
>> From: tony at makenoisemusic.com
>> To: harrybissell at wowway.com
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
>> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>
>> harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:
>>> There is a triangle wave VCO that uses two opamps and one
>>> transistor. The CV is input to the first opamp (an inverting
>>> integrator) through two resistors, one to inverting and one to non-inverting.
>>> A transistor shunts the non-inverting side to ground. Unequal
>>> resistors make the ramps equal in time. The other opamp is a schmitt
>>> trigger.
>>>
>>> Classic circuit suffers from relatively small tuning range (maybe 10-20:1)
>>> because eventually the control voltage must get really large to get the
>>> current in.  Current controlled oscillators have much wider range.
>>>
>>> I think this is in the National Semiconductor Linear Apps databook...
>>> but I can't find it right now.
>>>
>>>   
>> It is in that databook. I designed a variation of this circuit into a 
>> small noise instrument I built for somebody. They work great for sound 
>> design and noise, but definitely are not able to be tuned to 1V/oct or 
>> any standard that I recognized.
>>
>> TOny
>>
>>> H^) harry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:45:02 -0500, DAF wrote
>>>   
>>>> thanks for all of the suggestions thus far - I am particularly 
>>>> intrigued by the UJT voltage-controlled relaxation osc. especially 
>>>> because of the low parts count, but I am wondering if the UJT is 
>>>> also going the way of the dodo bird, and also is the control of 
>>>> frequency linear over a wide enough range (I see it used in synths 
>>>> that use octave divider schemes)?
>>>>
>>>> In that Ray Wilson schematic, he says for a VCLFO, leave out the 
>>>> parts in RED; are you to join the resulting gaps together on the 
>>>> wires shown remaining?
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Simon Brouwer" 
>>>> To: "sdiy" 
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:13 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>> Here is one:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/lfo/lfo1-asm2-cct.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> DAF schreef:
>>>>>       
>>>>>> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled
>>>>>> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an
>>>>>> OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more generic
>>>>>> parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't
>>>>>> neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2
>>>>>> to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use any specialty chips or
>>>>>> OTA's, just discrete transistors and op-amps.   Any help greatly
>>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>         
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Vriendelijke groet,
>>>>> Simon Brouwer.
>>>>>
>>>>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 
>>>> 12/28/2008 
>>>> 2:23 PM
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>     
>>>
>>> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>   
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From patchell at cox.net  Tue Dec 30 05:21:39 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:21:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>	<4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4959A1D3.6050105@cox.net>

He..he...

Here are pictures of the VCO.....

http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vco.jpg
http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vcorear.jpg

-Jim


Dan Snazelle wrote:
> I am a bit confused as I have the Linear Applications Handbook VOL one from 1977 and the only triangle VCO is lm3900 based.
> Do i have the wrong volume?
> 
> I want to get more of these books so any info would be great!
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> also...TOny...is there an APP note number for the mentioned circuit?
> 
> thanks
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
> 
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:51:59 -0500
>> From: tony at makenoisemusic.com
>> To: harrybissell at wowway.com
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
>> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>
>> harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:
>>> There is a triangle wave VCO that uses two opamps and one
>>> transistor. The CV is input to the first opamp (an inverting
>>> integrator) through two resistors, one to inverting and one to non-inverting.
>>> A transistor shunts the non-inverting side to ground. Unequal
>>> resistors make the ramps equal in time. The other opamp is a schmitt
>>> trigger.
>>>
>>> Classic circuit suffers from relatively small tuning range (maybe 10-20:1)
>>> because eventually the control voltage must get really large to get the
>>> current in.  Current controlled oscillators have much wider range.
>>>
>>> I think this is in the National Semiconductor Linear Apps databook...
>>> but I can't find it right now.
>>>
>>>   
>> It is in that databook. I designed a variation of this circuit into a 
>> small noise instrument I built for somebody. They work great for sound 
>> design and noise, but definitely are not able to be tuned to 1V/oct or 
>> any standard that I recognized.
>>
>> TOny
>>
>>> H^) harry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:45:02 -0500, DAF wrote
>>>   
>>>> thanks for all of the suggestions thus far - I am particularly 
>>>> intrigued by the UJT voltage-controlled relaxation osc. especially 
>>>> because of the low parts count, but I am wondering if the UJT is 
>>>> also going the way of the dodo bird, and also is the control of 
>>>> frequency linear over a wide enough range (I see it used in synths 
>>>> that use octave divider schemes)?
>>>>
>>>> In that Ray Wilson schematic, he says for a VCLFO, leave out the 
>>>> parts in RED; are you to join the resulting gaps together on the 
>>>> wires shown remaining?
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Simon Brouwer" 
>>>> To: "sdiy" 
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:13 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>> Here is one:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/lfo/lfo1-asm2-cct.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> DAF schreef:
>>>>>       
>>>>>> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled
>>>>>> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have used an
>>>>>> OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more generic
>>>>>> parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't
>>>>>> neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2
>>>>>> to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use any specialty chips or
>>>>>> OTA's, just discrete transistors and op-amps.   Any help greatly
>>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>         
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Vriendelijke groet,
>>>>> Simon Brouwer.
>>>>>
>>>>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 
>>>> 12/28/2008 
>>>> 2:23 PM
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>     
>>>
>>> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>   
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From djthomaswhite at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 30 05:25:54 2008
From: djthomaswhite at yahoo.com (thomas white)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:25:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] MOTM Format Modules (For Sale... UPDATE)
In-Reply-To: <390585.70700.qm@web55002.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <214618.89999.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Update to my small module sale. Here are the remaining
MOTM format modules left... Built by me, 100% working
order. 

Get them now with no wait on shipping. Nothing like a
"post Holiday treat" for yourself as a reward for
doing such a good job at the family gatherings, gift
choosing, and Holiday highway navigation. No bites
here and they go to eBay soon. 

> CGS Synthacon VCF in 1U MOTM FPE Panel
(Freq/Res/Level knobs) $200.00 (can email pic on
request)

> MOTM-320 Voltage Controlled LFO $210.00 (normally
$259.00 new)

> MOTM-440 Low Pass Filter $320.00 (normally $389.00
new)

> MOTM-485 GX-1F Diode Filter $250.00 (normally 339.99
new)

> MOTM-490 Moog 104a Ladder Clone Filter $225.00
(normally 289.99 new)

If any interest just shoot me an email. Acepting best
offers as well, possibly trades too! Thanks,

Thomas White
www.naturalrhythmmusic.com/diy.html

--- thomas white <djthomaswhite at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,
> 
> Spam it may be, and sorry for that, but some may
> appreciate what is offered. Here is a list of
> modules
> and items I am selling. I have duplicates for almost
> all the modules so I am not parting with anything
> due
> to not being satisfied with a particular module's
> function. I'm trying to fund a big new purchase and
> parting with these modules is worth the trade-off
> for
> me.
> 
> All modules were assembled and tested by me. All
> modules are in 100% working condition and in
> excellent
> shape unless noted otherwise. Prices listed are "you
> pay it/it's yours" prices, but are up for
> negotiation
> as well, although offers will be sold to the
> highest,
> not the first, bidder. Ask any questions you have. I
> can send pictures or details as needed. Unsold
> modules
> will go to eBay. 


Thomas White
  Natural Rhythm
www.naturalrhythmmusic.com



      


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Tue Dec 30 08:08:14 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:08:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <4959A1D3.6050105@cox.net>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>	<4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>	<BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>
	<4959A1D3.6050105@cox.net>
Message-ID: <4959C8DE.6090406@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Jim Patchell skrev:
> He..he...
> 
> Here are pictures of the VCO.....
> 
> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vco.jpg
> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vcorear.jpg

GGhhhhh.....

I hope your design abilities have improved since...

Cheers,
Magnus - been there, done that, but not that long ago


From plusworx at t-online.de  Tue Dec 30 08:13:57 2008
From: plusworx at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sch=FCnemann?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:13:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDImplant
In-Reply-To: <135790.47133.qm@web51311.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <135790.47133.qm@web51311.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4959CA35.6090408@t-online.de>

Hi,

you should check  http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_cv.html  ... I`ve a built 
a MIDIBOX-CV and it has all features I need, was cheap ( only one mbhp 
aout lc ) and building was a lot of fun...


Sebastian


Michael Bechard schrieb:
> Hi all, I'm new to the list. I posted this topic on electro-music (http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-31039.html) and it was recommended I post it here too, so here goes.
>
> Does anybody have any experience here with the
> MIDImplant MIDI2CV interface (http://www.midimplant.com/)? I'm looking
> for a cheap MIDI/CV interface for my semi-modular I'm building; I don't
> need oogobs of channels or features, just something cheap and easy.
> Seems cheap at 80 euros, but I need to know if it works with MIDI
> keyboards that send note ON signals at zero velocity when a note is
> released instead of note OFF. I need this for my keyboard, otherwise, I
> would probably build the interface on MFOS. 
>
> Anybody have any alternate suggestions for a cheap and easy MIDI to CV interface?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   


From czvekan at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 11:46:54 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:46:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Chroma Polaris patches
In-Reply-To: <94F6A65C-D511-4486-8D5F-0A3358C800BC@stuyts.nl>
References: <A1F83B30-7C4E-4106-B8E2-3F17FD864E15@gmail.com>
	<94F6A65C-D511-4486-8D5F-0A3358C800BC@stuyts.nl>
Message-ID: <0801C9B7-3D5A-4B8B-8292-6BF38E9F5C96@gmail.com>

Now this is something ! Great help , Ben.
I have no Idea why I didn't find that link via google. Thank you so  
much.

Csaba
On Dec 30, 2008, at 1:33 AM, Ben Stuyts wrote:

> Hi Csaba,
>
> On 29 dec 2008, at 13:29, Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>
>> I am looking for some Chroma Polaris patches. Maybe factory  
>> originals or maybe self made . Cause what I have in there for  
>> almost a decade now is totally ridiculous .
>
> Have you looked here? http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=polarispatches
>
> Kind regards,
> Ben
>



From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Dec 30 14:41:32 2008
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:41:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <4959C8DE.6090406@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>
	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>
	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>
	<4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>
	<4959A1D3.6050105@cox.net> <4959C8DE.6090406@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200812301340.mBUDedoM008476@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

At 02:08 AM 12/30/2008, Magnus Danielson wrote:
>Jim Patchell skrev:
>>He..he...
>>Here are pictures of the VCO.....
>>http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vco.jpg
>>http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vcorear.jpg
>
>GGhhhhh.....
>
>I hope your design abilities have improved since...

Indeed, they have!
         http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodulesII/ModSeq.html

John



From raywilson at comcast.net  Tue Dec 30 14:49:19 2008
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 06:49:19 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <4959C8DE.6090406@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>	<4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>	<BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl><4959A1D3.6050105@cox.net>
	<4959C8DE.6090406@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <B738A86AFCEB4679BCD3756DBB3B58BE@RaymondLabPC>

Hi All

We should all drag out pics of our earliest creations and share them. That 
should be a great thread. I'm totally serious. I'll send some links when I 
get a chance to dig them up. I loved these photos it was like a wall of 
nostalgia.

Ray

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Magnus Danielson" <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
To: "Jim Patchell" <patchell at cox.net>
Cc: "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO


> Jim Patchell skrev:
>> He..he...
>>
>> Here are pictures of the VCO.....
>>
>> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vco.jpg
>> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vcorear.jpg
>
> GGhhhhh.....
>
> I hope your design abilities have improved since...
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus - been there, done that, but not that long ago
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Tue Dec 30 15:08:02 2008
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:08:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Service manuals for Roland System 100 available
Message-ID: <495A2B42.7000806@mnet-online.de>

Hello everybody,

I finally managed to scan the nearly complete service manuals of the
Roland System 100 (which I received with the System I bought from Bakis
Sirros earlier this year).

You may find them here:
http://fa.utfs.org/diy/roland100/

Best regards, Florian Anwander



From louis at dompselaar.org  Tue Dec 30 15:13:42 2008
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:13:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Service manuals for Roland System 100 available
In-Reply-To: <495A2B42.7000806@mnet-online.de>
References: <495A2B42.7000806@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <495A2C96.3080200@dompselaar.org>

Thanks for those Florian!

Just noted that the page title says "SH-5 schematics"

> I finally managed to scan the nearly complete service manuals of the
> Roland System 100 (which I received with the System I bought from Bakis
> Sirros earlier this year).
> 
> You may find them here:
> http://fa.utfs.org/diy/roland100/


From patchell at cox.net  Tue Dec 30 15:45:12 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 06:45:12 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <4959C8DE.6090406@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>	<4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>	<BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>
	<4959A1D3.6050105@cox.net> <4959C8DE.6090406@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <495A33F8.7000705@cox.net>

Are you KIDding?

http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/synthmodulesII/ModularSynthesizerChassis.html

;^)

-Jim

Magnus Danielson wrote:
> Jim Patchell skrev:
>> He..he...
>>
>> Here are pictures of the VCO.....
>>
>> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vco.jpg
>> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vcorear.jpg
> 
> GGhhhhh.....
> 
> I hope your design abilities have improved since...
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus - been there, done that, but not that long ago
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Wed Dec 31 00:03:33 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:03:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <495A33F8.7000705@cox.net>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>	<4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>	<BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>
	<4959A1D3.6050105@cox.net> <4959C8DE.6090406@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<495A33F8.7000705@cox.net>
Message-ID: <495AA8C5.3040302@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Jim Patchell skrev:
> Are you KIDding?
> 
> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/synthmodulesII/ModularSynthesizerChassis.html
> 
> ;^)

Yeah, I knew you had improved. :)

Looks great by the way. :)

Cheers,
Magnus

> -Jim
> 
> Magnus Danielson wrote:
>> Jim Patchell skrev:
>>> He..he...
>>>
>>> Here are pictures of the VCO.....
>>>
>>> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vco.jpg
>>> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vcorear.jpg
>>
>> GGhhhhh.....
>>
>> I hope your design abilities have improved since...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus - been there, done that, but not that long ago
>>
>>
> 


From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 31 04:21:22 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:21:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
In-Reply-To: <798435.49916.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <E8081AE831F642DE8FCBC1CADC77074B@stingo>
	<798435.49916.qm@web27601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W4548274F712A0840062065B4E40@phx.gbl>


I vaguely recall reading somewhere (can't really back this up...) that the VCF portions of the 3378/79/88/89 were based on the 3328, so the design may have gotten around a lot more than the 3328 chip itself.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:26:21 +0000
> From: dalenkarl at yahoo.se
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] CEM VCF transconductance stage difference!
> To: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
> Tim!
>
>> However the 3328 remains as an oddity, in that it is also a dedicated filter
>>chip, but without the inter-stage buffering - maybe it was just cheaper than the 3320?
>
> I would guess a yes on that!
>
>>It is interesting to me (as someone late on the synth scene) that the 3320
>>seems to have outlasted the 3328, at least as it appears to me, as there are
>>still lots of filters around based on it (e.g. many of the Doepfer ones).
>
> One speculation on this may be that the 3320 was his first VCF design,
> and also became a contender to Dave Rossums even earlier 2044 design.
>
> Being the first VCF's on a rising market P1,P5,OB8 etc, 3320 and Polysix
> 2044,etc. Volumes would have been quite large, way larger then the 3328
> wich would have been sort of late follow'er up to the 3320. There are at
> least 4 or even 5 years between these two VCF designs and the only synths
> i know using the 3328 are the Bitt 99/01 and Mirage so the manufacturing
> volumes would have been larger for the 3320 i suppose!
>
> Regarding to the P5 and P10 schematics 3320 was used at least around 1980.
> P1 was manufactured in volumes of more then 10k units! It would have been
> interessting to know wich CEM chip sold the most?
>
>>Still, my idea might be intact - it will be interesting to see if anyone
>>else refutes it over the next few days!
>
> Indeed, so far it's supricingly silent! :-)
>
> Btw, are there any other Curtis patents around?
>
> Reg
> KD
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
> J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008


From marr at lumin.us  Wed Dec 31 10:05:56 2008
From: marr at lumin.us (Mark Rivera)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 03:05:56 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] intermittent audio connection device
Message-ID: <495B35F4.7080109@lumin.us>


I'm have an idea in mind -- a device that will simulate something like a 
faulty jack connection -- with control over how frequent the.

Any ideas how to do this easily?

I was thinking of an IC analog switch with a noise source (fed through a 
hardware SPST for on/off) controlling the throw. Think I could get away 
with a simple pot-controlled RC LPF and a schmitt trigger for tweaking 
the amount of noise blips that set off the IC's throw?

I'd try it out but I don't have a IC switch handy... <g>


Mark


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Wed Dec 31 10:53:47 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:53:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] intermittent audio connection device
In-Reply-To: <495B35F4.7080109@lumin.us>
References: <495B35F4.7080109@lumin.us>
Message-ID: <495B412B.3040609@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Mark Rivera skrev:
> 
> I'm have an idea in mind -- a device that will simulate something like a 
> faulty jack connection -- with control over how frequent the.
> 
> Any ideas how to do this easily?
> 
> I was thinking of an IC analog switch with a noise source (fed through a 
> hardware SPST for on/off) controlling the throw. Think I could get away 
> with a simple pot-controlled RC LPF and a schmitt trigger for tweaking 
> the amount of noise blips that set off the IC's throw?
> 
> I'd try it out but I don't have a IC switch handy... <g>

You can use a LFO or something instead for the interrupt event generation.

You could use a 4066 or something similar for switching.

We use similar techniques to stress-test out gear at work, both on 
electrical and optical links. Either just a generator or by programming.

I am not sure why you need it for audio-use (continuity monitoring is so 
much more difficult and also judging the effect of signal absence), but 
for telecommunication systems it strikes at a vital aspect - 
connectivity and biterror, detection thereoff and proper handling.

Cheers,
Magnus


From louis at dompselaar.org  Wed Dec 31 11:51:43 2008
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:51:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] uPC41C
Message-ID: <495B4EBF.2040208@dompselaar.org>

I'm repairing an SH3A which has been mistreated a bit by some electronics
novice (to put it mildly).  A number of 2SC945s was removed and replaced
by a random collection of BC547, BC550 and BC560 (yes, in some places
PNP instead of NPN).

More importantly, the uPC41C dual PNP pair was removed and replaced by
two (probably unmatched) BC560's.  As the uPC41C is probably unobtainium,
has anyone ever replaced one with another PNP pair?  The SSM2220 would
be the most obvious choice as it's pin-compatible and easy to obtain.

I do have plenty of 2SA798s lying around as well that can probably be
made to fit the footprint.




From jimp at pobox.com  Wed Dec 31 19:53:47 2008
From: jimp at pobox.com (Jim Palmer)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:53:47 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
In-Reply-To: <4959A1D3.6050105@cox.net>
References: <4957DB6A.3000002@rubidium.dyndns.org><002301c96936$8021d0a0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<495886BB.80202@xs4all.nl>	<003c01c969bb$a6ca33c0$01fea8c0@colossus>	<20081229153416.M85446@wowway.com>	<4959467F.8090204@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W22300C3D7B2F1F331A2199C8E70@phx.gbl>
	<4959A1D3.6050105@cox.net>
Message-ID: <495BBFBB.10906@pobox.com>

no offense, but man that's an ugly baby...


Jim Patchell wrote:
> He..he...
> 
> Here are pictures of the VCO.....
> 
> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vco.jpg
> http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/FirstSynth/vcorear.jpg
> 
> -Jim
> 
> 
> Dan Snazelle wrote:
>> I am a bit confused as I have the Linear Applications Handbook VOL one 
>> from 1977 and the only triangle VCO is lm3900 based.
>> Do i have the wrong volume?
>>
>> I want to get more of these books so any info would be great!
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> also...TOny...is there an APP note number for the mentioned circuit?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> check out various dan music at:
>>
>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc 
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>
>>
>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:51:59 -0500
>>> From: tony at makenoisemusic.com
>>> To: harrybissell at wowway.com
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
>>> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>
>>> harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:
>>>> There is a triangle wave VCO that uses two opamps and one
>>>> transistor. The CV is input to the first opamp (an inverting
>>>> integrator) through two resistors, one to inverting and one to 
>>>> non-inverting.
>>>> A transistor shunts the non-inverting side to ground. Unequal
>>>> resistors make the ramps equal in time. The other opamp is a schmitt
>>>> trigger.
>>>>
>>>> Classic circuit suffers from relatively small tuning range (maybe 
>>>> 10-20:1)
>>>> because eventually the control voltage must get really large to get the
>>>> current in.  Current controlled oscillators have much wider range.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is in the National Semiconductor Linear Apps databook...
>>>> but I can't find it right now.
>>>>
>>>>   
>>> It is in that databook. I designed a variation of this circuit into a 
>>> small noise instrument I built for somebody. They work great for 
>>> sound design and noise, but definitely are not able to be tuned to 
>>> 1V/oct or any standard that I recognized.
>>>
>>> TOny
>>>
>>>> H^) harry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:45:02 -0500, DAF wrote
>>>>  
>>>>> thanks for all of the suggestions thus far - I am particularly 
>>>>> intrigued by the UJT voltage-controlled relaxation osc. especially 
>>>>> because of the low parts count, but I am wondering if the UJT is 
>>>>> also going the way of the dodo bird, and also is the control of 
>>>>> frequency linear over a wide enough range (I see it used in synths 
>>>>> that use octave divider schemes)?
>>>>>
>>>>> In that Ray Wilson schematic, he says for a VCLFO, leave out the 
>>>>> parts in RED; are you to join the resulting gaps together on the 
>>>>> wires shown remaining?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Brouwer" To: "sdiy" Sent: 
>>>>> Monday, December 29, 2008 3:13 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] discrete/no-OTA VCO
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>> Here is one:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/lfo/lfo1-asm2-cct.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DAF schreef:
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>> Hello - can someone point me to a circuit for a  voltage-controlled
>>>>>>> lfo that uses discrete or other easy to source parts.  I have 
>>>>>>> used an
>>>>>>> OTA-based design in the past, but I want to design around more 
>>>>>>> generic
>>>>>>> parts.  I seem to remember a vco that used a discrete JFET?  I don't
>>>>>>> neet expo response or temp compensation.  I am looking for about a 2
>>>>>>> to 10 Hz response range.  I don't want to use any specialty chips or
>>>>>>> OTA's, just discrete transistors and op-amps.   Any help greatly
>>>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Vriendelijke groet,
>>>>>> Simon Brouwer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1867 - Release Date: 
>>>>> 12/28/2008 2:23 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>     
>>>>
>>>> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>>   
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
> 


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 31 21:13:40 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:13:40 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] saw/ramp from square?
Message-ID: <BAY144-W8838CD28BD73586717146C8E40@phx.gbl>


this article (on the DCO's in the JUNO)

http://www.electricdruid.net/images/dcos/larger/JunoDCOwaveshaper.gif

(from 
http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=info.junodcos



explains a process for getting a ramp from a square. however...i am a bit lost.

is this diagram showing that the square wave plugs straight into the base of the NPN after passing through some caps and resistors (is that an integrator?)

i would LOVE to be able to find a way to get pretty good (dont need to be perfect) ramp waves or (anything other than square) out of my square waves


i had heard at some point that ELEKTOR magazine used to run lots of wave shaping articles back in the 70's,

any ideas?

thanks

AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL YOU SDIYERS!!




--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle





From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 31 21:45:26 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:45:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] classic transistor VCO's
Message-ID: <BAY144-W2176A7DAFD734CD3147C0AC8E40@phx.gbl>



ok

the recent topics have gotten me looking for small vco's or noisemakers

i remembered the 303 had a transistor VCO but even with XOXBOX redrawn schematics, the schematic is a bit confusing) (this could just be the layout of the schematic)

but there must be others.

I know ems used transistor vcos at some point

are there any others? the key here is small and not stable 

heck, it could even be some wildly unstable magazine vco.

i am just wanting to get some small transistor circuits going ( a la ciat lonbarde)

anyway.....hope this topic isnt too similar


thanks




--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle





From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Wed Dec 31 22:14:35 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] saw/ramp from square?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W8838CD28BD73586717146C8E40@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W8838CD28BD73586717146C8E40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <495BE0BB.8090804@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Dan Snazelle skrev:
> this article (on the DCO's in the JUNO)
> 
> http://www.electricdruid.net/images/dcos/larger/JunoDCOwaveshaper.gif
> 
> (from 
> http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=info.junodcos
> 
> 
> 
> explains a process for getting a ramp from a square. however...i am a bit lost.
> 
> is this diagram showing that the square wave plugs straight into the base of the NPN after passing through some caps and resistors (is that an integrator?)
> 
> i would LOVE to be able to find a way to get pretty good (dont need to be perfect) ramp waves or (anything other than square) out of my square waves

It is a pretty straight-forward thing. You have a coarse CV that 
integrates up in an integrator, however, the DCO controls the reset, so 
what you got is a linear ramp but with the timing from the DCO. The 
control voltage is only needed to make the ramp have about the same 
amplitude regardless of frequency.

Cheers,
Magnus


From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 31 22:26:49 2008
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:26:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] saw/ramp from square?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W8838CD28BD73586717146C8E40@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W8838CD28BD73586717146C8E40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU143-W12C0E516D8EB3EA1FEEE2DB4E40@phx.gbl>


It's sort of like half a standard saw VCO.  An integrator uses a control voltage like an ordinary VCO, but the reset signal comes from a digital clock rather than being triggered by the integrator's output reaching a certain threshold.  The point is that you can get a nice saw waveform without worrying about steppy digital binary weighted octave dividers (like in the Poly 800), precise exponential amplifiers, autotune algorithms, etc.

It's not so simple to just make a box for this because it needs a control voltage to keep the saw wave's amplitude constant as the pitch changes.  If you have this, it's no problem (though it needs to be scaled if the square wave is going through a divider or something).  If you don't, you could use a frequency to voltage converter to generate the CV, but this causes as many problems as it solves (due to latency, there will be a glitch whenever the pitch changes quickly).

A simpler way to get a "sort of" saw would be to highpass filter the square wave and then half-wave rectify the output.  It will have a strange formant (and will similarly impart this formant when used for PWM), but it's still good for some purposes. You could also alter the wave shape by adjusting the highpass filter or DC offset on the rectifier.

----------------------------------------
> From: subjectivity at hotmail.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:13:40 +0000
> Subject: [sdiy] saw/ramp from square?
>
>
> this article (on the DCO's in the JUNO)
>
> http://www.electricdruid.net/images/dcos/larger/JunoDCOwaveshaper.gif
>
> (from
> http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=info.junodcos
>
>
>
> explains a process for getting a ramp from a square. however...i am a bit lost.
>
> is this diagram showing that the square wave plugs straight into the base of the NPN after passing through some caps and resistors (is that an integrator?)
>
> i would LOVE to be able to find a way to get pretty good (dont need to be perfect) ramp waves or (anything other than square) out of my square waves
>
>
> i had heard at some point that ELEKTOR magazine used to run lots of wave shaping articles back in the 70's,
>
> any ideas?
>
> thanks
>
> AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL YOU SDIYERS!!
>
>
>
>
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>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
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>
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