From jonathan_science at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 01:52:24 2008
From: jonathan_science at hotmail.com (J P)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:52:24 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anybody know 4gang pot sources?
Message-ID: <BAY111-W49E893614261A40312A6C8FDD80@phx.gbl>


I have three of these sitting around I bought from Mauser and I really need a few more.  Mauser now lists them as obsolete...  anybody got any ideas.

Thanks a squillion

--Jonathan Pratt

PS:  I know it's Mouser not Mauser.  I like the gun manufacturer a lot though.  K98s are my favourite rifle.  [:-)

_________________________________________________________________
In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008


From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Thu May  1 02:03:14 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:03:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <AF4A5AF0-0E01-4F0F-B649-D4003854DD18@bl0rg.net>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<1DC627E6-E8EB-4CF1-B90F-2B8DC6039D9C@electricdruid.net>
	<9184C154-2D3A-4E88-8F63-86D0BEC97949@shaw.ca>
	<AF4A5AF0-0E01-4F0F-B649-D4003854DD18@bl0rg.net>
Message-ID: <42F0002C-D7DD-4C04-9B57-A25E1DA652A6@shaw.ca>

A different thought, this would need 12 9bit counters and 12 9bit  
compare logic blocks - that ought to fit in a small CPLD that cost a  
few bucks and the programming tools are free.

On 30-Apr-08, at 10:35 AM, Manuel Odendahl wrote:
> On Apr 30, 2008, at 7:22 PM, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
>>> C low	?478
>>> C#		?451
>>> D		?426
>>> D#		?402
>>> E		?379
>>> F		?358
>>> F#		?338
>>> G		?319
>>> G#		?301
>>> A		?284
>>> A#		?268
>>> B		?253
>>> C high	?239
>
> Untested idea, but as the ratios are fixed, you could write some  
> long main loop being basically a sequence of nop loops interspersed  
> with various bit banging calls to set the output frequencies at the  
> right times, and then just run the input of the TOG as the  
> oscillator of the microcontroller.
>
> It would be like
>
> 239 nops
> set C high
> 13 nops
> set B
> 14 nops
> set A#
> etc...
>
> (I skipped the clearing, but you get the idea).
>
> Btw, hello everybody, I'm new to the list :)
>
> Regards, Manuel
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From mverbos at earthlink.net  Thu May  1 02:05:55 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:05:55 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] diff between A and B CMOS
Message-ID: <A3FD25FF-9E90-471A-887B-5EA708187BFC@earthlink.net>

When CMOS went from original A series to the B series, did the  
resistance of 4016 analog switches change? Did the voltage swing at  
the outputs of 4049s change?

I'm working on a quantizer module that was designed in the 70s and  
overhauled int he 90s with all new chips. The scale is now screwed up  
and I'm wondering if its because of the switch from A to B series in  
these chips.

Anyway, I'm going to install a trimmer where there wasn't one. I'm  
just curious really.


mark


From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu May  1 02:09:45 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 01:09:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <DDF391A6-2B77-4904-B054-1C7A7E4D38EE@shaw.ca>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<1DC627E6-E8EB-4CF1-B90F-2B8DC6039D9C@electricdruid.net>
	<9184C154-2D3A-4E88-8F63-86D0BEC97949@shaw.ca>
	<4818B303.20503@earthlink.net>
	<DDF391A6-2B77-4904-B054-1C7A7E4D38EE@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <C2EA50CB-B4F6-4DB6-9CAC-726A98DA8F43@electricdruid.net>


On 30 Apr 2008, at 22:08, Veronica Merryfield wrote:

>
> On 30-Apr-08, at 10:57 AM, Eric Brombaugh wrote:
>> Veronica Merryfield wrote:
>>
>>> The way to make this work is not to have 12 dividers but to use a  
>>> rolling scheduler.
>>
>> Very nice approach.
>>
>>> A little intelligence will be needed to handle events that come  
>>> close together.
>>
>> You said a mouthful there. Traversing the queue to schedule the  
>> next instance of the current edge, then fetching the top of the  
>> queue to set the timer for the next event is probably going to eat  
>> up enough time to make event crowding a very real issue. A fun  
>> problem for someone. :)
> Since the event set is limited, or perhaps I should say very well  
> defined, and although I know there will be occasions where thing  
> will get congested, I think it would work, The queue is a simpler  
> problem than most queues, again it is limited and well defined, and  
> I think there are a number of optimization opportunities.
>
> Also, the description queue here does not mean a linked list. For  
> instance, if the event structures had an extra field that is a next  
> index, the events could be an array of structures and a single  
> 'next_index' variable. The rejigging of the queue is about changing  
> the times, the next index fields and the next_index. At the times  
> where it gets congested, the event edges might be off by a few  
> clocks but that should be no real issue and could add to the  
> character or effect :) If you wanted to ensure the errors didn't  
> accumulate, you can correct for delayed events, again, that happens  
> in ECUs.

I generated a list of the events to have a look at. Makes quite  
interesting reading. There are quite a few occasions when things do  
get quite thick, but often you've got 20 or 30 cycles between events  
at least.

http://www.electricdruid.com/TopOctave.html

I haven't started thinking of an algorithm to work out which bit  
changes next, but maybe you don't need one, since there's only 5820  
events.

Anyone still tempted?

Regards,
Tom



From manuel at bl0rg.net  Thu May  1 02:11:55 2008
From: manuel at bl0rg.net (Manuel Odendahl)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 02:11:55 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <BD61FFC9-6C97-4172-8ABD-4DA27CDD2852@shaw.ca>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<1DC627E6-E8EB-4CF1-B90F-2B8DC6039D9C@electricdruid.net>
	<9184C154-2D3A-4E88-8F63-86D0BEC97949@shaw.ca>
	<AF4A5AF0-0E01-4F0F-B649-D4003854DD18@bl0rg.net>
	<BD61FFC9-6C97-4172-8ABD-4DA27CDD2852@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <2C8852F4-8D34-488C-AF1A-B8ABC0D8D57E@bl0rg.net>

Hi Veronica,

On May 1, 2008, at 1:46 AM, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
> A different thought, this would need 12 9bit counters and 12 9bit  
> compare logic blocks - that ought to fit in a small CPLD that cost a  
> few bucks and the programming tools are free.

Yes, I was thinking about this one. definitely easier and more  
reliable to design than on a uC. I toyed a bit with the uC  
implementation, using a 512 word buffer to make a "fast" version of  
the buffer. But still, at 20 instructions in between each bit toggling  
in the best case, you're quite living on the hard side. Maybe if you  
have a PLL inside the uC, like the dspics, you can get a bit more  
power and still track the frequency accurately, but the CPLD one is  
definitely easier.

Cheers, Manuel


From joant at ieee.org  Thu May  1 02:18:18 2008
From: joant at ieee.org (Joan Touzet)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:18:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Memristor, posited in 1971, built by HP in secret,
	revealed today
Message-ID: <fca6577f0804301718w59c6d89w843e715291ef9a4c@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry in advance for the crosspost...follow-ups probably should go to sdiy.

A new basic type of electronic device, first postulated in 1971 by
Leon Chua (1), has been fabricated by HP and published today in Nature
Magazine and a few other notable publications:

  http://www.physorg.com/news128786808.html (with photo)
  http://www.hpl.hp.com/news/2008/apr-jun/memristor.html
  http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207403521&pgno=1
  http://technology.newscientist.com/article/dn13812-engineers-find-missing-link-of-electronics.html
  Original 1971 article reference:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/8147/23413/01083337.pdf?tp=&isnumber=&arnumber=1083337
(requires membership)

In short, a memristor is a current-controlled resistor. The device has
the unique property of being capable of remembering the last voltage
applied to it, and for how long it had been applied. The device has
been fabricated out of a bilevel titanium dioxide film, where one
layer has been doped through oxygen vacancies. The oxygen vacancies
lead to the hysteresis that is predicted by Chua, an indication of
flux-linkage (aka flux, indicated by lower-case phi). The
characterization of the device is (forgive my horrid notation):

q(t) = integral (-inf, t) i(t) dt
phi(t) = integral (-inf, t) v(t) dt

The point being that resistance arises from a relationship between v
and i, inductance arises from a relationship between phi and I,
capacitance arises from a relationship between q and v, and
*memristance* as a relationship between q and phi.

Chua's 1971 article, which I can't share here legally (check with your
local library to see if you have full IEEE Xplore access) goes into
great detail on the presumed device, even providing a complete
schematic diagram of a memristor tracer for tracing the device's phi-q
(flux-linkage vs. charge) curves. It's an accessible article if you
have some background in device physics, even just one course at the
university level.

The application everyone in the media is talking about is based on the
hysteresis-induced memory effect - zero-power memory storage, that
sort of thing - but I can't be the only one thinking "Hm,
current-controlled resistance...sounds like something I can make music
with! Sounds like a new device that implements what has been taking
many many components to date!"

There's also natural applications in delay lines, sequence playback
(set "samples" on each memristor, then play back in sequence of your
choice), neural net modeling (anyone remember the Intel integrating
chip a while back that did something similar? I can't recall its #),
crossbar matrices (one of HP's intended applications, actually)...
Even HP is saying that the interesting applications of this device are
in its analogue characteristics, not in the binary "on" and "off"
states. This is where they think it will act most like a neural
network.

Anyone up for a discussion of device physics and potential synth applications?

-Joan
-- 
Joan Touzet | joant at ieee.org | wohali at efnet


From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Thu May  1 03:01:23 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:01:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <C2EA50CB-B4F6-4DB6-9CAC-726A98DA8F43@electricdruid.net>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<1DC627E6-E8EB-4CF1-B90F-2B8DC6039D9C@electricdruid.net>
	<9184C154-2D3A-4E88-8F63-86D0BEC97949@shaw.ca>
	<4818B303.20503@earthlink.net>
	<DDF391A6-2B77-4904-B054-1C7A7E4D38EE@shaw.ca>
	<C2EA50CB-B4F6-4DB6-9CAC-726A98DA8F43@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <E7BA7C2E-501E-4A4C-8B75-8AFB42537B80@shaw.ca>

I suspect you could probably roll any differences of 3 to 4 cycles say  
together thus reducing the table size. Now if these micros could have  
an instruction 'stall Rs' that stalled the micro for a number of  
clocks, the code would be very simple - just walk an index down a  
table outputting the word from one table, waiting the amount in the  
other table then incrementing the index. The table of time differences  
could have the code execution time for the loop removed hence the  
adding events together.

I am surprised it was as little as 5820 distinct events. So, about  
15KB for the data table and a hand full for the code. Neat.

On 30-Apr-08, at 5:09 PM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
> On 30 Apr 2008, at 22:08, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
>
>>
>> On 30-Apr-08, at 10:57 AM, Eric Brombaugh wrote:
>>> Veronica Merryfield wrote:
>>>
>>>> The way to make this work is not to have 12 dividers but to use a  
>>>> rolling scheduler.
>>>
>>> Very nice approach.
>>>
>>>> A little intelligence will be needed to handle events that come  
>>>> close together.
>>>
>>> You said a mouthful there. Traversing the queue to schedule the  
>>> next instance of the current edge, then fetching the top of the  
>>> queue to set the timer for the next event is probably going to eat  
>>> up enough time to make event crowding a very real issue. A fun  
>>> problem for someone. :)
>> Since the event set is limited, or perhaps I should say very well  
>> defined, and although I know there will be occasions where thing  
>> will get congested, I think it would work, The queue is a simpler  
>> problem than most queues, again it is limited and well defined, and  
>> I think there are a number of optimization opportunities.
>>
>> Also, the description queue here does not mean a linked list. For  
>> instance, if the event structures had an extra field that is a next  
>> index, the events could be an array of structures and a single  
>> 'next_index' variable. The rejigging of the queue is about changing  
>> the times, the next index fields and the next_index. At the times  
>> where it gets congested, the event edges might be off by a few  
>> clocks but that should be no real issue and could add to the  
>> character or effect :) If you wanted to ensure the errors didn't  
>> accumulate, you can correct for delayed events, again, that happens  
>> in ECUs.
>
> I generated a list of the events to have a look at. Makes quite  
> interesting reading. There are quite a few occasions when things do  
> get quite thick, but often you've got 20 or 30 cycles between events  
> at least.
>
> http://www.electricdruid.com/TopOctave.html
>
> I haven't started thinking of an algorithm to work out which bit  
> changes next, but maybe you don't need one, since there's only 5820  
> events.
>
> Anyone still tempted?
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From gjames at kddlab.com  Thu May  1 03:52:12 2008
From: gjames at kddlab.com (Greg James)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:52:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
In-Reply-To: <fca6577f0804301718w59c6d89w843e715291ef9a4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca6577f0804301718w59c6d89w843e715291ef9a4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <010b01c8ab2d$f9bfbe30$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>

I'm on the hunt for some TI SN76477 chips and I have a possible source for a
group buy. These are the narrow body version. They are required for the
Thomas Henry SN-Voice and Supercontroller PCBs.

It looks like they will cost ~US $15 ea. If you are interested in purchasing
some, please drop me a line by 2008/5/9. I am only ordering 25 chips as I
don't want to get stuck with money tied-up in spares - so the first ones in
get their order filled. If response is overwhelming, I might be able to
increase the lot size.

-Greg



From bob_aloha at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 04:27:29 2008
From: bob_aloha at hotmail.com (Tim J)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 02:27:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
In-Reply-To: <010b01c8ab2d$f9bfbe30$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>
References: <fca6577f0804301718w59c6d89w843e715291ef9a4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<010b01c8ab2d$f9bfbe30$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>
Message-ID: <BAY123-W5692106FB8A9B6BC86665294DB0@phx.gbl>


These are normally $15 from arcadechips.com


----------------------------------------
> From: gjames at kddlab.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:52:12 -0400
> Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
> 
> I'm on the hunt for some TI SN76477 chips and I have a possible source for a
> group buy. These are the narrow body version. They are required for the
> Thomas Henry SN-Voice and Supercontroller PCBs.
> 
> It looks like they will cost ~US $15 ea. If you are interested in purchasing
> some, please drop me a line by 2008/5/9. I am only ordering 25 chips as I
> don't want to get stuck with money tied-up in spares - so the first ones in
> get their order filled. If response is overwhelming, I might be able to
> increase the lot size.
> 
> -Greg
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL


From alvitar at xavax.com  Thu May  1 04:39:15 2008
From: alvitar at xavax.com (Phillip Harbison)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:39:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <42F0002C-D7DD-4C04-9B57-A25E1DA652A6@shaw.ca>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>	<1DC627E6-E8EB-4CF1-B90F-2B8DC6039D9C@electricdruid.net>	<9184C154-2D3A-4E88-8F63-86D0BEC97949@shaw.ca>	<AF4A5AF0-0E01-4F0F-B649-D4003854DD18@bl0rg.net>
	<42F0002C-D7DD-4C04-9B57-A25E1DA652A6@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <48192D53.5080903@xavax.com>

Veronica Merryfield wrote:
> A different thought, this would need 12 9bit counters and 12 9bit 
> compare logic blocks - that ought to fit in a small CPLD that cost
> a few bucks and the programming tools are free.

You could avoid the comparators by running the device at twice
the TOG master frequency and preload the counters with the 9-bit
divisors. Every time they count down to zero, toggle the output
of an additional flip-flop and reload the divisor. You still
need to compare for zero but that is a 9-input NOR gate rather
than a true 9-bit comparator.

I still think your other (CPU-based) idea would work. What you
are describing is what we call a "callout queue" in the kernel
world. Whenever you want to have a thread delay for N ticks of
the clock, you scan the list looking for an event with a count
greater than your desired count. Each time you pass over an
event you subtract its count. If the next event is greater than
your event, you insert in front of it and subtract your count
from that event's count. So if you had a chain of events like
this:  A(10)->B(15)->C(10)->D(20)->null then you would have
the follow event delays:
   A: 10
   B: 25
   C: 35
   D: 55

In a case where the CPU is not particularly fast, the code that
processes the callout queue could probably adjust for the time
it takes to run and if the next event is Real Soon then just go
ahead and process that event.

In this case an event requires the toggling of one or more of
the 12 outputs so processing the event queue can be as simple
as exclusive-ORing a 12-bit event mask and the current 12-bit
output register. You could possibly even add a bit of jitter
to the outputs by shaving off a clock or three now and then,
especially if there is an event in the queue that is already
close to the time delay you need.

-- 
Phil Harbison
http://www.xavax.com/




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  1 05:03:21 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:03:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anybody know 4gang pot sources?
References: <BAY111-W49E893614261A40312A6C8FDD80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <01cd01c8ab37$ec166220$0202a8c0@positronium>

Umm you could check out Goodwill and other 2nd hand & thrift stores for old 
"quad stereo" receivers. I've gotten two that way. They were neither fit to 
restore, but yielded up tons of great parts (the Panasonic much moreso than 
the GE: lots of 2SC1000BL's - but the GE one had 3 identical quad-50kOhm 
sliders...).

>
> I have three of these sitting around I bought from Mauser and I really 
> need a few more.  Mauser now lists them as obsolete...  anybody got any 
> ideas.
>
> Thanks a squillion
>
> --Jonathan Pratt
>
> PS:  I know it's Mouser not Mauser.  I like the gun manufacturer a lot 
> though.  K98s are my favourite rifle.  [:-)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
> http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From gjames at kddlab.com  Thu May  1 05:11:21 2008
From: gjames at kddlab.com (Greg James)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:11:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
In-Reply-To: <BAY123-W5692106FB8A9B6BC86665294DB0@phx.gbl>
References: <fca6577f0804301718w59c6d89w843e715291ef9a4c@mail.gmail.com><010b01c8ab2d$f9bfbe30$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>
	<BAY123-W5692106FB8A9B6BC86665294DB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <013601c8ab39$08610240$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>

Yeah - but he doesn't seem to be in business at the moment. I tried to
purchase some. Got all the way to the checkout screen and PayPal says he
isn't authorized to accept payments "at this time". And all of my emails to
him have disappeared into the bit bucket... Believe me, this would have been
my preferred option.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tim J
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:27 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips


These are normally $15 from arcadechips.com


----------------------------------------
> From: gjames at kddlab.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:52:12 -0400
> Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
> 
> I'm on the hunt for some TI SN76477 chips and I have a possible source for
a
> group buy. These are the narrow body version. They are required for the
> Thomas Henry SN-Voice and Supercontroller PCBs.
> 
> It looks like they will cost ~US $15 ea. If you are interested in
purchasing
> some, please drop me a line by 2008/5/9. I am only ordering 25 chips as I
> don't want to get stuck with money tied-up in spares - so the first ones
in
> get their order filled. If response is overwhelming, I might be able to
> increase the lot size.
> 
> -Greg
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en
-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  1 05:53:10 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:53:10 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] diff between A and B CMOS
References: <A3FD25FF-9E90-471A-887B-5EA708187BFC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01e201c8ab3e$e10e1e20$0202a8c0@positronium>

It's funny I see 'A' series chips specifically specified sometimes, usually 
a 4011A in some type of oscillator circuit.

I have several RCA 4016A's that were in an old precision DMM...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mark verbos" <mverbos at earthlink.net>
To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:05 PM
Subject: [sdiy] diff between A and B CMOS


> When CMOS went from original A series to the B series, did the  resistance 
> of 4016 analog switches change? Did the voltage swing at  the outputs of 
> 4049s change?
>
> I'm working on a quantizer module that was designed in the 70s and 
> overhauled int he 90s with all new chips. The scale is now screwed up  and 
> I'm wondering if its because of the switch from A to B series in  these 
> chips.
>
> Anyway, I'm going to install a trimmer where there wasn't one. I'm  just 
> curious really.
>
>
> mark
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  1 05:58:14 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:58:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Multi/MicroMoog (was AN299 VCO)
References: <48166E04.10707@gatech.edu>	<5DDF087B-6618-4572-B85B-B6113C46D38E@ece.gatech.edu>	<000001c8aa02$a70135b0$f503a110$@net><2818DAE4-0031-42F7-BA82-36A4AC251A15@electricdruid.net><48175D17.8090003@sonic.net><0F274DE5-22A4-41BB-8CB1-98715B5EC8C3@embarqmail.com><481830D8.2090809@sonic.net>
	<03401B2E-9144-4C72-BF0E-8AC5734FDF72@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <01ef01c8ab3f$96886670$0202a8c0@positronium>

Hell, even Buchla did it!

> The dreaded MM5837 digital noise chip comes puffing into view again!  
> Everyone was at it, it seems. Even Moog.
> 
> T.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
>



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Thu May  1 06:20:42 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 00:20:42 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 1-pole LPF using a differential integrator?
In-Reply-To: <20080430200028.85309.qmail@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
References: <20080430200028.85309.qmail@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <7F46D30B-9738-4C3E-B582-E325344DD84F@ece.gatech.edu>


On Apr 30, 2008, at 4:00 PM, rdrake wrote:

> how about that center-tapped pot on the output?  would love to see  
> an alternative way of implementing that...

What did you have in mind?

Indeed that is an interesting feature - I don't think I've seen  
another synth with something like that.

I recall the Buchla 258 - I think - has some FET based circuitry that  
lets you crossfade between a sine and a whatever-other-waveform -  
maybe something like that could be used here to make it voltage  
controllable.

- Aaron


From mverbos at earthlink.net  Thu May  1 06:23:02 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 00:23:02 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Multi/MicroMoog (was AN299 VCO)
In-Reply-To: <01ef01c8ab3f$96886670$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <48166E04.10707@gatech.edu>	<5DDF087B-6618-4572-B85B-B6113C46D38E@ece.gatech.edu>	<000001c8aa02$a70135b0$f503a110$@net><2818DAE4-0031-42F7-BA82-36A4AC251A15@electricdruid.net><48175D17.8090003@sonic.net><0F274DE5-22A4-41BB-8CB1-98715B5EC8C3@embarqmail.com><481830D8.2090809@sonic.net>
	<03401B2E-9144-4C72-BF0E-8AC5734FDF72@electricdruid.net>
	<01ef01c8ab3f$96886670$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <1BE8FAAA-E29A-4EB1-B977-4597C06BECE2@earthlink.net>

But he also did diode and transistor based noise sources. I get the  
feeling he kept trying to do things a new way every time. By the time  
he got to the 266 he had run out of options....


;)


Mark



On Apr 30, 2008, at 11:58 PM, anthony wrote:

> Hell, even Buchla did it!
>
>> The dreaded MM5837 digital noise chip comes puffing into view  
>> again!  Everyone was at it, it seems. Even Moog.
>> T.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From middlearthling at msn.com  Thu May  1 07:09:29 2008
From: middlearthling at msn.com (JAMES GALLANT)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:09:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
In-Reply-To: <013601c8ab39$08610240$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>
Message-ID: <BLU141-F139F58DE455B4408BD1039CBDB0@phx.gbl>

I had the same expierience with Arcadechips.com in mid March.
I ended up buying a few wide-body versions on *bay out of Hong Kong for $18 
each, supposedly NOS, item # 170199958875 from seller radiooperator599.  I 
haven't had a chance to try any of them out so I don't know if they're good 
or not but the seller has 100% feedback with 1100+.
Now, if I could only find a stray Super Controller board or two.

James


>From: "Greg James" <gjames at kddlab.com>
>Reply-To: gjames at kddlab.com
>To: "'Tim J'" <bob_aloha at hotmail.com>, <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
>Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:11:21 -0400
>
>Yeah - but he doesn't seem to be in business at the moment. I tried to
>purchase some. Got all the way to the checkout screen and PayPal says he
>isn't authorized to accept payments "at this time". And all of my emails to
>him have disappeared into the bit bucket... Believe me, this would have 
>been
>my preferred option.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tim J
>Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:27 PM
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
>
>
>These are normally $15 from arcadechips.com
>
>
>----------------------------------------
> > From: gjames at kddlab.com
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:52:12 -0400
> > Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
> >
> > I'm on the hunt for some TI SN76477 chips and I have a possible source 
>for
>a
> > group buy. These are the narrow body version. They are required for the
> > Thomas Henry SN-Voice and Supercontroller PCBs.
> >
> > It looks like they will cost ~US $15 ea. If you are interested in
>purchasing
> > some, please drop me a line by 2008/5/9. I am only ordering 25 chips as 
>I
> > don't want to get stuck with money tied-up in spares - so the first ones
>in
> > get their order filled. If response is overwhelming, I might be able to
> > increase the lot size.
> >
> > -Greg
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
>http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en
>-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From martin at think-forth.com  Thu May  1 08:34:11 2008
From: martin at think-forth.com (Martin Pavlas)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 06:34:11 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
In-Reply-To: <BLU141-F139F58DE455B4408BD1039CBDB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU141-F139F58DE455B4408BD1039CBDB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <48196463.9040708@think-forth.com>

I buy parts from radiooperator599 (Jack) every now and they. Bought some 
SN76477 too and worked perfectly. It's easy to deal with about price him 
if you want higher quantities.

--
martin




JAMES GALLANT wrote:
> I had the same expierience with Arcadechips.com in mid March.
> I ended up buying a few wide-body versions on *bay out of Hong Kong 
> for $18 each, supposedly NOS, item # 170199958875 from seller 
> radiooperator599.  I haven't had a chance to try any of them out so I 
> don't know if they're good or not but the seller has 100% feedback 
> with 1100+.
> Now, if I could only find a stray Super Controller board or two.
>
> James
>
>
>> From: "Greg James" <gjames at kddlab.com>
>> Reply-To: gjames at kddlab.com
>> To: "'Tim J'" <bob_aloha at hotmail.com>, <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:11:21 -0400
>>
>> Yeah - but he doesn't seem to be in business at the moment. I tried to
>> purchase some. Got all the way to the checkout screen and PayPal says he
>> isn't authorized to accept payments "at this time". And all of my 
>> emails to
>> him have disappeared into the bit bucket... Believe me, this would 
>> have been
>> my preferred option.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tim J
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:27 PM
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
>>
>>
>> These are normally $15 from arcadechips.com
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> > From: gjames at kddlab.com
>> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> > Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:52:12 -0400
>> > Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
>> >
>> > I'm on the hunt for some TI SN76477 chips and I have a possible 
>> source for
>> a
>> > group buy. These are the narrow body version. They are required for 
>> the
>> > Thomas Henry SN-Voice and Supercontroller PCBs.
>> >
>> > It looks like they will cost ~US $15 ea. If you are interested in
>> purchasing
>> > some, please drop me a line by 2008/5/9. I am only ordering 25 
>> chips as I
>> > don't want to get stuck with money tied-up in spares - so the first 
>> ones
>> in
>> > get their order filled. If response is overwhelming, I might be 
>> able to
>> > increase the lot size.
>> >
>> > -Greg
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
>> http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en 
>>
>> -US?ocid=TAG_APRIL
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Thu May  1 09:12:45 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 03:12:45 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] FET VCA in Music Easel timbre generator
Message-ID: <962FB078-3BE6-4DB2-B9E7-35B928C4F2A3@ece.gatech.edu>

Another student, Luke, is banging on the Music Easel timbre generator:

http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2080_9_200.jpg

He's got the main nonlinearity working fine, using 4558s instead of  
the weird 4136. We put various waveforms into it (where "In" is  
defined as the big vertical line in the middle of the page, connected  
to resistors connecting to the negative inputs of the 5 op amps, aka  
the output of the single op amp in the middle of the page, which is  
part of the VCA. We change the amplitude, watch it on the scope,  
listen to it, bask in its glory.

We can't seem to figure out the VCA. Well, we have it partially  
figured out.

I see that that R17 and R19 form a divider that chops the 4 v input pk- 
pk signal down to a 4*(3.3/(68+3.3)) = 0.2 V pk-pk input signal, to  
avoid distortions in the FET-based VCA.

If we disconnect the 680K resistor (which we disconnected because we  
can't figure out why it's there R18 - more on that later), and apply a  
voltage we pick to the base of the JFET Q6 directly, we get a nice  
VCA. As we change the input voltage from 0 volts to -2 volts, the gain  
changes as the effective resistance of the JFET changes. Beyond -2  
volts we don't get any change - I'm guessing that is its "pinch off"  
voltage.

At -2 volts or thereabouts, the FET has essentially infinite  
resistance, and the
op amp has a gain of (1 + 33/6.8) = 6ish, which would give a 1.2V pk- 
pk signal. As you move the voltage up from -2 towards zero, the  
effective resistance of Q6 decreases to whatever it's "on" resistance  
is, and the gain goes up.

Here's the things we don't get:

1) What in the world is R18 for? It seems to simultaneously couple  
some of the signal into the control voltage on the FET (which it seems  
you wouldn't want) and couple some of the CV on the FET into the  
signal (which it also seems you wouldn't want).

2) We did the experiments of directly applying a voltage to the gate  
of the JFET since when Luke built the rest of the CV circuitry,  
consising of the 100K pot, R24, Q5, and R23, he couldn't get any  
change as he changed the CV or the pot. There was probably a wiring  
problem somewhere, or an understanding problem... in any case we  
couldn't really debug it effective since we weren't sure how it worked  
and what it was supposed to be doing. So... uhm... what ia all that  
"Timber In" circuitry supposed to be doing? Why the BJT?

3) We assume that the base of Q5 is supposed to be grounded, but it's  
drawn
kind of oddly. Is our assumption right?

Sorry I've been asking a lot more questions lately than answering  
them. At least it sounds like my questions are generating some  
interesting discussions.

The SDIY list is the reason my class was able to exist. :)

- Aaron


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Thu May  1 09:25:57 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 03:25:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
Message-ID: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu>

So, along the Buchla timbre theme, I have yet another student,  
Alfredo, working on the Buchla 259 version of the timbre generator.

This one uses CA3160s, which are capable of "rail to rail output." The  
CA3160 is a frequency compensated version of the CA3130. The CA3160  
datasheet says: "Miller Effect compensation (roll off) is accomplished  
by means of the 30 pF capacitor and 2Kohm resistor connected between  
the base and collector of transistor Q11. These internal components  
provide sufficient compensation for unity gain operation in most  
applications. However, additional compensation, if desired, may be  
used between Terminals 1 and 8." The data sheet does not suggest what  
additional compensation might be needed, or when, but it appears that  
Buchla decided to add some additional compensation, in the form of 47  
pF caps.

I don't have any CA3160s, but I do have some CA3130s I gave Alfredo to  
use. It appears the CA3130 is an uncompensated version of the CA3160.  
The CA3130 datasheet suggests using a 47 pF between terminals 1 and 8  
for compensation.

Since Buchla felt the need to add some compensation to the already  
compensated CA3160 op amp, should we use a higher value cap than the  
47 pF suggested by CA3130 datasheet? Say 100 pF?

We had lots of high-frequency goo in our deadband circuit outputs,  
especially when the output was near zero. Putting in the 47 pF  
compensation caps removed a lot of the goo, but the signals still  
appear pretty gooey.

- Aaron



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Thu May  1 09:57:32 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 00:57:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Multi/MicroMoog (was AN299 VCO)
In-Reply-To: <1BE8FAAA-E29A-4EB1-B977-4597C06BECE2@earthlink.net>
References: <48166E04.10707@gatech.edu>	<5DDF087B-6618-4572-B85B-B6113C46D38E@ece.gatech.edu>	<000001c8aa02$a70135b0$f503a110$@net><2818DAE4-0031-42F7-BA82-36A4AC251A15@electricdruid.net><48175D17.8090003@sonic.net><0F274DE5-22A4-41BB-8CB1-98715B5EC8C3@embarqmail.com><481830D8.2090809@sonic.net>	<03401B2E-9144-4C72-BF0E-8AC5734FDF72@electricdruid.net>	<01ef01c8ab3f$96886670$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<1BE8FAAA-E29A-4EB1-B977-4597C06BECE2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <481977EC.80603@sonic.net>

mark verbos wrote:
> But he also did diode and transistor based noise sources. I get the 
> feeling he kept trying to do things a new way every time. By the time 
> he got to the 266 he had run out of options....
>
Ha!  He never did one based on atomic decay!

That'd put some ballast in your boat.

:-)

-Dave


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Thu May  1 10:49:59 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 10:49:59 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] 1-pole LPF using a differential integrator?
In-Reply-To: <7F46D30B-9738-4C3E-B582-E325344DD84F@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <20080430200028.85309.qmail@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
	<7F46D30B-9738-4C3E-B582-E325344DD84F@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20080501.104959.308443689638333671.cfmd@bredband.net>

From: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] 1-pole LPF using a differential integrator?
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 00:20:42 -0400
Message-ID: <7F46D30B-9738-4C3E-B582-E325344DD84F at ece.gatech.edu>

> 
> On Apr 30, 2008, at 4:00 PM, rdrake wrote:
> 
> > how about that center-tapped pot on the output?  would love to see an alternative way of implementing that...
> 
> What did you have in mind?
> 
> Indeed that is an interesting feature - I don't think I've seen another synth with something like that.
> 
> I recall the Buchla 258 - I think - has some FET based circuitry that lets you crossfade between a sine and a whatever-other-waveform - maybe something like that could be used here to make it voltage controllable.

I think you are after the Buchla 259 here Aaron. Please check the schematics.

The wavefolder to some degree simulates a sweeping lowpass-filter.

The even/odd harmonic balance pot is interesting.

Cheers,
Magnus


From mverbos at earthlink.net  Thu May  1 11:30:44 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 05:30:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 1-pole LPF using a differential integrator?
In-Reply-To: <20080501.104959.308443689638333671.cfmd@bredband.net>
References: <20080430200028.85309.qmail@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
	<7F46D30B-9738-4C3E-B582-E325344DD84F@ece.gatech.edu>
	<20080501.104959.308443689638333671.cfmd@bredband.net>
Message-ID: <4D582A63-8F3E-4A96-8F6C-AED852871371@earthlink.net>

Nah, Aaron's right. Although the circuit in a 258 is not as much a  
crossfader as just a VCA mixing in the harmonics on top of the sine  
wave.

mark




On May 1, 2008, at 4:49 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

> From: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] 1-pole LPF using a differential integrator?
> Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 00:20:42 -0400
> Message-ID: <7F46D30B-9738-4C3E-B582-E325344DD84F at ece.gatech.edu>
>
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2008, at 4:00 PM, rdrake wrote:
>>
>>> how about that center-tapped pot on the output?  would love to  
>>> see an alternative way of implementing that...
>>
>> What did you have in mind?
>>
>> Indeed that is an interesting feature - I don't think I've seen  
>> another synth with something like that.
>>
>> I recall the Buchla 258 - I think - has some FET based circuitry  
>> that lets you crossfade between a sine and a whatever-other- 
>> waveform - maybe something like that could be used here to make it  
>> voltage controllable.
>
> I think you are after the Buchla 259 here Aaron. Please check the  
> schematics.
>
> The wavefolder to some degree simulates a sweeping lowpass-filter.
>
> The even/odd harmonic balance pot is interesting.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Thu May  1 11:32:08 2008
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 05:32:08 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
In-Reply-To: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <03773F73-123B-4239-BC14-A53B22060F27@earthlink.net>

Aaron,

I have seen the insides of several actual 259s. More often than not,  
they actually had 3130s in them! The caps were still 47p and the  
circuit seemed to work just fine.


Mark




On May 1, 2008, at 3:25 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

> So, along the Buchla timbre theme, I have yet another student,  
> Alfredo, working on the Buchla 259 version of the timbre generator.
>
> This one uses CA3160s, which are capable of "rail to rail output."  
> The CA3160 is a frequency compensated version of the CA3130. The  
> CA3160 datasheet says: "Miller Effect compensation (roll off) is  
> accomplished by means of the 30 pF capacitor and 2Kohm resistor  
> connected between the base and collector of transistor Q11. These  
> internal components provide sufficient compensation for unity gain  
> operation in most applications. However, additional compensation,  
> if desired, may be used between Terminals 1 and 8." The data sheet  
> does not suggest what additional compensation might be needed, or  
> when, but it appears that Buchla decided to add some additional  
> compensation, in the form of 47 pF caps.
>
> I don't have any CA3160s, but I do have some CA3130s I gave Alfredo  
> to use. It appears the CA3130 is an uncompensated version of the  
> CA3160. The CA3130 datasheet suggests using a 47 pF between  
> terminals 1 and 8 for compensation.
>
> Since Buchla felt the need to add some compensation to the already  
> compensated CA3160 op amp, should we use a higher value cap than  
> the 47 pF suggested by CA3130 datasheet? Say 100 pF?
>
> We had lots of high-frequency goo in our deadband circuit outputs,  
> especially when the output was near zero. Putting in the 47 pF  
> compensation caps removed a lot of the goo, but the signals still  
> appear pretty gooey.
>
> - Aaron
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Thu May  1 11:48:12 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 02:48:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] FET VCA in Music Easel timbre generator
In-Reply-To: <962FB078-3BE6-4DB2-B9E7-35B928C4F2A3@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <962FB078-3BE6-4DB2-B9E7-35B928C4F2A3@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <481991DC.7050108@sonic.net>

Aaron Lanterman wrote:
>
> 2) We did the experiments of directly applying a voltage to the gate 
> of the JFET since when Luke built the rest of the CV circuitry, 
> consising of the 100K pot, R24, Q5, and R23, he couldn't get any 
> change as he changed the CV or the pot. There was probably a wiring 
> problem somewhere, or an understanding problem... in any case we 
> couldn't really debug it effective since we weren't sure how it worked 
> and what it was supposed to be doing. So... uhm... what ia all that 
> "Timber In" circuitry supposed to be doing? Why the BJT?
>
> 3) We assume that the base of Q5 is supposed to be grounded, but it's 
> drawn
> kind of oddly. Is our assumption right?
My 2 cents -

Yes, the base of Q5 is grounded.  So the question is what is Ic on Q5 as 
Timbre In varies, or what is the relationship between Vbe and Ic for a BJT?

Running a spice simulation (using a 3906 for Q5) I see as 'Timbre In' 
increases from 0V to 1V the voltage at the collector increases 
exponentially from around -6.5V to ~0.5V. It's a poor man's expo 
circuit.  I didn't have time to simulate the FET/VCA.

Now,  if you look at page 2080_14A_200, pins 1 and 2 of board 9  are 
labeled 't.p.1' and 't.p.2' (test point 1 and 2?) and look like they are 
floating.  The text 'Timbre In from pin 6 board 7' appears wrong, and I 
don't see a pin 6 on the schematic for board 7.  But...on 2080_14A_200 
the block labeled board 7 does have a pin 6 which is labeled 'TIMBRE'.  
So what is really connected?  Hard to say. It looks like 'Timbre IN' is 
a control voltage that is expo converted and then scaled between 0 and 
-6.5V by the 100K pot.  For lab debugging ignore 'Timbre IN' and just 
hook up the 100K pot and 130K to -15V to give a 0 to -6.5V manually 
controlled CV and see what happens.  Later try controlling 'Timber In' 
with an ADSR or VCO (scaled down appropriately).  Also, there's nothing 
magic about this VCA, a more modern VCA could be used in its place.

HTH,
Dave



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu May  1 11:55:09 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 02:55:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Memristor, posited in 1971, built by HP in secret,
	revealed today
In-Reply-To: <fca6577f0804301718w59c6d89w843e715291ef9a4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca6577f0804301718w59c6d89w843e715291ef9a4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080501095509.GK59657@moo.sysabend.org>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 08:18:18PM -0400, Joan Touzet wrote:
> Sorry in advance for the crosspost...follow-ups probably should go to sdiy.
> 
> A new basic type of electronic device, first postulated in 1971 by
> Leon Chua (1), has been fabricated by HP and published today in Nature
> Magazine and a few other notable publications:

I'm glad I'm not the only one whose first thought was "Ooohhh new Synth
toy".

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From sdiy at haraldswerk.de  Thu May  1 12:21:46 2008
From: sdiy at haraldswerk.de (sdiy at haraldswerk.de)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:21:46 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] diff between A and B CMOS
In-Reply-To: <A3FD25FF-9E90-471A-887B-5EA708187BFC@earthlink.net>
References: <A3FD25FF-9E90-471A-887B-5EA708187BFC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200805011221.46496.sdiy@haraldswerk.de>

The change from the A to the B series was in the mid seventies. 1976 the JEDEC 
standard was established. Before that, you cannot swap CMOS parts from 
different manufacturers as easy as today. They where often different 
electrically.
The B means buffered. Buffered are the outputs. There are a few exceptions. 
They are named UB (UnBuffered)

The switch from A to B Series may be the reason. If special characteristic 
from the A series of a certain manufacturer is used.

Harald



Am Donnerstag, 1. Mai 2008 02:05:55 schrieb mark verbos:
> When CMOS went from original A series to the B series, did the
> resistance of 4016 analog switches change? Did the voltage swing at
> the outputs of 4049s change?
>
> I'm working on a quantizer module that was designed in the 70s and
> overhauled int he 90s with all new chips. The scale is now screwed up
> and I'm wondering if its because of the switch from A to B series in
> these chips.
>
> Anyway, I'm going to install a trimmer where there wasn't one. I'm
> just curious really.
>
>
> mark
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu May  1 12:23:39 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:23:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator
In-Reply-To: <E7BA7C2E-501E-4A4C-8B75-8AFB42537B80@shaw.ca>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<1DC627E6-E8EB-4CF1-B90F-2B8DC6039D9C@electricdruid.net>
	<9184C154-2D3A-4E88-8F63-86D0BEC97949@shaw.ca>
	<4818B303.20503@earthlink.net>
	<DDF391A6-2B77-4904-B054-1C7A7E4D38EE@shaw.ca>
	<C2EA50CB-B4F6-4DB6-9CAC-726A98DA8F43@electricdruid.net>
	<E7BA7C2E-501E-4A4C-8B75-8AFB42537B80@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <8EB17021-1D30-4320-A29A-119916A82817@electricdruid.net>


On 1 May 2008, at 02:01, Veronica Merryfield wrote:

> I suspect you could probably roll any differences of 3 to 4 cycles  
> say together thus reducing the table size. Now if these micros  
> could have an instruction 'stall Rs' that stalled the micro for a  
> number of clocks, the code would be very simple - just walk an  
> index down a table outputting the word from one table, waiting the  
> amount in the other table then incrementing the index. The table of  
> time differences could have the code execution time for the loop  
> removed hence the adding events together.
>
> I am surprised it was as little as 5820 distinct events. So, about  
> 15KB for the data table and a hand full for the code. Neat.

I found a mistake in my table. It's pretty obvious.

I started the run at the point at which every output is low, and  
everything goes high on the first clock edge.
I stopped the list when I returned to the state at which I started -  
eg all zeros.

But the mistake is that that state can arise without all the counters  
being back at zero. In fact, it's much more likely to arise when the  
counters *aren't* all back at zero. So I corrected it and am redoing  
the list.

The original faulty version is still here:

http://www.electricdruid.com/TopOctave.html

Only trouble is, now it's a *really* long list (100,000 events and  
counting...), so a uP solution is looking less likely. If its not a  
huge download, I'll put the corrected one up as TopOctave2.html.

Sorry to get your hopes up!

T.




From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Thu May  1 13:03:41 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:03:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <E7BA7C2E-501E-4A4C-8B75-8AFB42537B80@shaw.ca>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<C2EA50CB-B4F6-4DB6-9CAC-726A98DA8F43@electricdruid.net>
	<E7BA7C2E-501E-4A4C-8B75-8AFB42537B80@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <200805011303.41697.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Donnerstag 01 Mai 2008, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
> I suspect you could probably roll any differences of 3 to 4 cycles
> say together thus reducing the table size. Now if these micros could
> have an instruction 'stall Rs' that stalled the micro for a number of
> clocks, the code would be very simple - just walk an index down a
> table outputting the word from one table, waiting the amount in the
> other table then incrementing the index. The table of time
> differences could have the code execution time for the loop removed
> hence the adding events together.

What you are looking for is not an instruction on your standard 8-bit 
uC, but is typically implemented as a timer peripheral function.  For a 
TOG, you'd need one or more timer(s) with individual compare units that 
can toggle an output pin of the uC and produce an interrupt to request 
the new compare value.  This means you'd need to service the compare 
reload interrupt in less than 239 timer ticks even in the presence of 
contention and be able to deal with nested interrupts.  Since you need 
12 or 13 compare channels for a complete TOG, this is not easily found 
in a low-end uC.  The upcoming ATxmega will be able to deal with that 
if I read their datasheets correctly, but cannot replace a TOG chip 
directly as it has no 5V I/O.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

DIY Stuff:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/DIY.html



From tensiontype at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 14:04:27 2008
From: tensiontype at hotmail.com (Sean Ellis)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:04:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Ground loop problem with Polysix
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><C2EA50CB-B4F6-4DB6-9CAC-726A98DA8F43@electricdruid.net><E7BA7C2E-501E-4A4C-8B75-8AFB42537B80@shaw.ca>
	<200805011303.41697.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <BAY144-DAV970BD6E08A5AC6BA7B3CCB3DB0@phx.gbl>

After several months I finally got my sick polysix working! I'm thrilled but 
it has a bad problem with ground hum when the power cable is plugged in. If 
I remove the back panel bracket from the case the hum goes away but fully 
isolating it will be a pain. The 2 audio output jacks are isolated plastic 
types and no connection to the bracket is being made. Has anyone noticed 
this before with a polysix and could give me some pointers on where to look? 
My model has the thick ground cable going from near the battery to the front 
panel board.

BTW thanks to the 2 list members who helped with parts, I removed all the 
keys and front panel components and gave the synth a complete physical 
overhaul. Looks almost like new now :) Just need to replace the front panel 
switches since 2 are barely functioning. 



From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Thu May  1 14:28:08 2008
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Thu,  1 May 2008 22:28:08 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] diff between A and B CMOS
Message-ID: <20080501122809.1E4D68BC0A7@mailout2.hotkey.net.au>

4016 and 4049 are weird cases. I don't think a 4016 can actually be
buffered, no matter what suffix is on the package. The more "advanced"
version is the 4066. 4049 may well be availab as a UB version even now. Note
also that it's output current can be asymetrical (UB variants).

Ken


>The change from the A to the B series was in the mid seventies. 1976 the JEDEC 
>standard was established. Before that, you cannot swap CMOS parts from 
>different manufacturers as easy as today. They where often different 
>electrically.
>The B means buffered. Buffered are the outputs. There are a few exceptions. 
>They are named UB (UnBuffered)
>
>The switch from A to B Series may be the reason. If special characteristic 
>from the A series of a certain manufacturer is used.
>
>Harald
>
>
>
>Am Donnerstag, 1. Mai 2008 02:05:55 schrieb mark verbos:
>> When CMOS went from original A series to the B series, did the
>> resistance of 4016 analog switches change? Did the voltage swing at
>> the outputs of 4049s change?
>>
>> I'm working on a quantizer module that was designed in the 70s and
>> overhauled int he 90s with all new chips. The scale is now screwed up
>> and I'm wondering if its because of the switch from A to B series in
>> these chips.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm going to install a trimmer where there wasn't one. I'm
>> just curious really.
>>
>>
>> mark
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 15:18:25 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:18:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Mark Godfrey Pitch To FREQ woes (bad NTE?)
In-Reply-To: <679880F0-A40A-4ACD-BA60-A205C8CC0A71@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <679880F0-A40A-4ACD-BA60-A205C8CC0A71@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W3961D8D22B90FF0AD76946C8DB0@phx.gbl>


I was very excited last night to try and build the mark godfrey pitch to voltage converter. it looked simple.

so i order an NTE995 which is supposed to be a direct replacment for the 14 pin lm2917m (it has a few NC pins and an extra opamp in and comp In, no BIG differences other than pin layout)

so i figured out the pin out

1=1
2=2
3=3
4=3 sort of
5=4
6=nc
7=nc

8=5
9=6
10=7
11==8 sort of
12=8 gnd
13=nc
14=nc


now i then followed marks schematic to a T. vcc on pin 9 (6) and gnd on 12 and maybe 11.

to make a long story short, i got it going, and uh-oh, the chip got hot. and nothing worked.

real hot.

i tried poring over the datasheets for both the 995 AND the lm2917 and could find nothing i needed to do differently except tie pins 11 and 12 together and pins 3 and 4 together.

heck, i even tried disconnecting it and powering it with a battery, still got hot.

is this just a case of a bum NTE chip ruining  my long awaited fun? or did i miss something fundamentally different between the two chips and in the process bust up the chip?

mouser calls it a direct replacement. (its really a 2917m)

what to do :(

aaron lanterman-btw, how does this circuit work? i have heard pretty well.

thanks all!

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle




From rtellason at verizon.net  Thu May  1 16:45:44 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 10:45:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 1-pole LPF using a differential integrator?
In-Reply-To: <7F46D30B-9738-4C3E-B582-E325344DD84F@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <20080430200028.85309.qmail@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
	<7F46D30B-9738-4C3E-B582-E325344DD84F@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <200805011045.44471.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Thursday 01 May 2008 00:20, Aaron Lanterman wrote:
> On Apr 30, 2008, at 4:00 PM, rdrake wrote:
> > how about that center-tapped pot on the output?  would love to see
> > an alternative way of implementing that...
>
> What did you have in mind?
>
> Indeed that is an interesting feature - I don't think I've seen
> another synth with something like that.
>
> I recall the Buchla 258 - I think - has some FET based circuitry that
> lets you crossfade between a sine and a whatever-other-waveform -
> maybe something like that could be used here to make it voltage
> controllable.

I've been wondering if it were feasible to use FETs like that...

That's one of the reasons I posted about that "simple VCA" a while back.  
While a regular VCA seems to carry lots of requirements for typical synth 
applications,  I'm thinking more along the lines of volume controls, 
cross-fading,  and other such stuff that should be do-able without getting 
all that complicated.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Thu May  1 17:31:51 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 17:31:51 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <C2EA50CB-B4F6-4DB6-9CAC-726A98DA8F43@electricdruid.net>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<DDF391A6-2B77-4904-B054-1C7A7E4D38EE@shaw.ca>
	<C2EA50CB-B4F6-4DB6-9CAC-726A98DA8F43@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <200805011731.51931.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Donnerstag 01 Mai 2008, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> I haven't started thinking of an algorithm to work out which bit
> changes next, but maybe you don't need one, since there's only 5820
> events.

The least common multiple of the divider values and hence the period of 
your event loop should be on the order of 1e19, not 5280.  So in due 
time I'd expect to see all 8192 states possible with 13 bit at least.  
Enumerating events on an irrational grid is a neverending process and 
enumerating relatively prime divisions is a very long one.

478 =  2 *     239
451 = 41 *      11
426 =  3 *      71 * 2
402 =  3 *      67 * 2
379 =          379
358 =          179 * 2
338 =        13*13 * 2
319 = 29 *      11
301 =  7 *      43
284 =  2 *      71 * 2
268 =  2 *      67 * 2
253 = 23 *      11
239 =          239

A multi-stage synchroneous TOG architecture would have moduli of 2, 3, 
7, 23, 29 and 41 in the post-scaler and of 2, 11, 43, 67, 71, 169, 179, 
239 and 379 in the pre-scaler stages.  This brings the number of FF 
from 115 down to 80 by sharing common subexpressions.  The 2/3 modulus 
can be combined for both the 67 and 71 modulus paths, but this does not 
save any FF.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May  1 17:53:53 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 01:53:53 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <200805011731.51931.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>

I'm all in favor of people making top-octave repacements - or indeed
replacements of anything- and I'm in awe of anyone who can write any code at
all.
But if one really wants to make a cheap modern MG-1, using a top octave sub
is not the first thing I'd try to optimize. One really loses a great deal,
with the lockstep.
But if one IS going to do it - please use a RF vco for the clock of the
micro, so one can pitchbend the instrument.

paul perry Melbourne Australia




From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 18:00:03 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:00:03 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Mark Godfrey Pitch To FREQ woes (bad NTE?)
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W3961D8D22B90FF0AD76946C8DB0@phx.gbl>
References: <679880F0-A40A-4ACD-BA60-A205C8CC0A71@ece.gatech.edu>
	<BAY144-W3961D8D22B90FF0AD76946C8DB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W5596D2D0E03CB1D876029AC8DB0@phx.gbl>


oops


here it is:


http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/studentprojects/mark_godfrey_schematic.pdf

-



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Thu May  1 18:50:44 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:50:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 1-pole LPF using a differential integrator?
In-Reply-To: <20080501.104959.308443689638333671.cfmd@bredband.net>
References: <20080430200028.85309.qmail@mmm1113.verio-web.com>
	<7F46D30B-9738-4C3E-B582-E325344DD84F@ece.gatech.edu>
	<20080501.104959.308443689638333671.cfmd@bredband.net>
Message-ID: <34DB80A5-4DC3-4C56-800B-D77C5ADF55D7@ece.gatech.edu>

> I think you are after the Buchla 259 here Aaron. Please check the  
> schematics.
>
> The wavefolder to some degree simulates a sweeping lowpass-filter.
>
> The even/odd harmonic balance pot is interesting.


At that particular moment I was thinking of the 258:

http://www.simple-answer.com/258mod.jpg

See the lower right corner.

The 259 certainly has a lot more sophisticated goodies, but the2 258  
seems to have its particular charms (that weird spikey thing coming  
out of the tail of the comparitor is kinda interesting).

- Aaron


From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Thu May  1 20:03:40 2008
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 18:03:40 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Need schematic for VOX Stereo Multi-Voice octaver fuzz
Message-ID: <911923.66317.qm@web26210.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi List, sorry for the slightly OT subject. If anyone has a schematic, or knows where i'd be able to get schematics for a Vox Stereo Multi-Voice octaver fuzz i'd appreciate to know. This thing is built int the late 60's - early 70's and makes sounds that are indeed octaved, but i can't get a clean tone and the bypass switches only turns on/off what seems to be a 60Hz feedback signal. Any insights appreciated!

Karl




      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Yahoo!
http://shopping.yahoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014



From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Thu May  1 22:12:56 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 22:12:56 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MAT Amp synth supply connector suggestions..
In-Reply-To: <380-220084330154856476@oricom.ca>
References: <380-220084330154856476@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <20080501201256.GC3036@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-04-30 11:48 -0400, jpdesroc at oricom.ca wrote:

> I'm about to chose a 'specific' pinout for my future MAT synth
> supply connectors..
> I'll probably use AMP 640445-x type PCB male connectors.  The
> number of pins is to be found..
> I'll surely use some microcontrolers in some modules with the
> analog chips.
>  
> I'm thinking of these possible pin arrangements:

Since you're going to use the same 0.156" connectors as MOTM,
might make sense to use the same pin assignments. Looking at the
male header, the pins are -15 V, ground, ground, +15 V from left
to right.
                        - G G +
                   |  |=========|
                   |  | o o o o |
                   |  |_________|   Edge of PCB
                   |___________________________

Oakley modules reserve the second pin from the left for chassis
ground (comes from ground of PSU, goes to sleeve of jacks, no
current flows through it).

There is also a 6-way version for modules needing +5 V and digital
ground. Not sure what the pinning is.

> The modules supply cables will be made of #18 AWG stranded wires.
> The the wires colors... not yet chosen.

MOTM uses white for -15 V, black for ground and red for +15 V. I
think.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.


From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  1 22:47:26 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:47:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] diff between A and B CMOS
References: <A3FD25FF-9E90-471A-887B-5EA708187BFC@earthlink.net>
	<200805011221.46496.sdiy@haraldswerk.de>
Message-ID: <01f601c8abcc$92ba7370$0202a8c0@positronium>

I thought the distinction was much more convoluted that 'B' just standing 
for 'buffered'. B series have protection diodes and different fan-ins & 
fan-outs than the A series right? Or there is something different about 
fan-in and/or fan-out. Like maybe the threshold voltage changed with the 
load in A series, but not in B series?

I'm trying to think of an example where a 'UB' part would be different in 
the B series from the B series, but the examples I can come up with are the 
4069, the 4049 and the 4009. I don't think the 4069 ever existed as an A 
series part. The 4007 is often labeled, quite unnecessarilly I think, as 
'UB'. You find me a 4007 that is buffered and I'll show you a 4007 that 
doesn't work for anything but as a buffer/inverter. I can't remember if the 
4049 was around early enough to be an A series part either, but if you 
compared a 4049A to a 4049UB, they would be different.

Another big difference I think is the switch to a finer scale fabrication 
process that yielded denser, more durable parts.

More than just slapping a buffer on them in other words...

AA


> The change from the A to the B series was in the mid seventies. 1976 the 
> JEDEC
> standard was established. Before that, you cannot swap CMOS parts from
> different manufacturers as easy as today. They where often different
> electrically.
> The B means buffered. Buffered are the outputs. There are a few 
> exceptions.
> They are named UB (UnBuffered)
>
> The switch from A to B Series may be the reason. If special characteristic
> from the A series of a certain manufacturer is used.
>
> Harald
>
>
>
> Am Donnerstag, 1. Mai 2008 02:05:55 schrieb mark verbos:
>> When CMOS went from original A series to the B series, did the
>> resistance of 4016 analog switches change? Did the voltage swing at
>> the outputs of 4049s change?
>>
>> I'm working on a quantizer module that was designed in the 70s and
>> overhauled int he 90s with all new chips. The scale is now screwed up
>> and I'm wondering if its because of the switch from A to B series in
>> these chips.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm going to install a trimmer where there wasn't one. I'm
>> just curious really.
>>
>>
>> mark
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  1 22:54:50 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:54:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
References: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu>
	<03773F73-123B-4239-BC14-A53B22060F27@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <020501c8abcd$9aaf1530$0202a8c0@positronium>

Hey this has cleared up a sticking point for me! Just try finding 3160's 
anywhere. What about 3140's? They aren't that much different from 3130's 
besides having different supply voltage limitations, right?

What about using a mix of what you have? I have a number of NTE7144's (a 
3140) and RCA 307-073's (a 3130) - seems like I could mix 'em together in 
the 259 timbre circuit. Haven't looked at that schematic in a while...

AA

> Aaron,
>
> I have seen the insides of several actual 259s. More often than not,  they 
> actually had 3130s in them! The caps were still 47p and the  circuit 
> seemed to work just fine.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> On May 1, 2008, at 3:25 AM, Aaron Lanterman wrote:
>
>> So, along the Buchla timbre theme, I have yet another student,  Alfredo, 
>> working on the Buchla 259 version of the timbre generator.
>>
>> This one uses CA3160s, which are capable of "rail to rail output."  The 
>> CA3160 is a frequency compensated version of the CA3130. The  CA3160 
>> datasheet says: "Miller Effect compensation (roll off) is  accomplished 
>> by means of the 30 pF capacitor and 2Kohm resistor  connected between the 
>> base and collector of transistor Q11. These  internal components provide 
>> sufficient compensation for unity gain  operation in most applications. 
>> However, additional compensation,  if desired, may be used between 
>> Terminals 1 and 8." The data sheet  does not suggest what additional 
>> compensation might be needed, or  when, but it appears that Buchla 
>> decided to add some additional  compensation, in the form of 47 pF caps.
>>
>> I don't have any CA3160s, but I do have some CA3130s I gave Alfredo  to 
>> use. It appears the CA3130 is an uncompensated version of the  CA3160. 
>> The CA3130 datasheet suggests using a 47 pF between  terminals 1 and 8 
>> for compensation.
>>
>> Since Buchla felt the need to add some compensation to the already 
>> compensated CA3160 op amp, should we use a higher value cap than  the 47 
>> pF suggested by CA3130 datasheet? Say 100 pF?
>>
>> We had lots of high-frequency goo in our deadband circuit outputs, 
>> especially when the output was near zero. Putting in the 47 pF 
>> compensation caps removed a lot of the goo, but the signals still  appear 
>> pretty gooey.
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu May  1 23:47:07 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 22:47:07 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>


On 1 May 2008, at 16:53, Paul Perry wrote:

> But if one really wants to make a cheap modern MG-1, using a top  
> octave sub
> is not the first thing I'd try to optimize. One really loses a  
> great deal,
> with the lockstep.

I agree entirely. Having twelve separate oscillators is the better  
option for a top octave. The Yamaha organ I have from the 1970s with  
twelve individually tuned oscillators sounds much better than the  
later one that has a TOG.
Oberheim realised this when they made dual DCO synths, and clocked  
the two sets of DCOs from different clocks.

The best way to replace a TOG with PICs would be to use little 8-pin  
chips and use twelve of them!

If that seems like too many chips, pull all the divider chips out as  
well, and then replace the TOG and the dividers by having twelve  
chips that each produce a single note at all required octaves.

> But if one IS going to do it - please use a RF vco for the clock of  
> the
> micro, so one can pitchbend the instrument.

This could also be done with an A/D input and software, but the point  
still stands.

T.




From ebrombaugh at earthlink.net  Fri May  2 01:10:59 2008
From: ebrombaugh at earthlink.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 16:10:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>
References: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <481A4E03.60405@earthlink.net>

Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> The best way to replace a TOG with PICs would be to use little 8-pin 
> chips and use twelve of them!
> 
> If that seems like too many chips, pull all the divider chips out as 
> well, and then replace the TOG and the dividers by having twelve chips 
> that each produce a single note at all required octaves.

Don't you think you could get 12 square-wave NCOs into a single dsPIC33F 
running at the full 40MHz clock rate? It might be a little tight, but I 
bet you could do it. You might sacrifice a little frequency resolution 
by running them on only 16-bit phase accumulators to speed things up a 
tad, but it probably wouldn't be any worse than the 9-bit divisors 
mentioned earlier.

>> But if one IS going to do it - please use a RF vco for the clock of the
>> micro, so one can pitchbend the instrument.
> 
> This could also be done with an A/D input and software, but the point 
> still stands.

If all the NCOs are in a single dsPIC you could slew them all around 
with one ADC input...

Eric


From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Fri May  2 01:28:26 2008
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (Mike I)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:28:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
References: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <000701c8abe3$0f54ca00$93db47d1@ca>

Another really nasty thing about the TOG + divider approach is that there is
unwanted signal coupling  from all the oscillators and dividers running
continuously, sometimes a noise gate is used to shut off the output to hide
this. Adding the ability to mute outputs that aren't currently in use would
be a good idea, or even just a simple global "mute all" signal.
M.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
To: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
Cc: <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)


>
> On 1 May 2008, at 16:53, Paul Perry wrote:
>
> > But if one really wants to make a cheap modern MG-1, using a top
> > octave sub
> > is not the first thing I'd try to optimize. One really loses a
> > great deal,
> > with the lockstep.
>
> I agree entirely. Having twelve separate oscillators is the better
> option for a top octave. The Yamaha organ I have from the 1970s with
> twelve individually tuned oscillators sounds much better than the
> later one that has a TOG.
> Oberheim realised this when they made dual DCO synths, and clocked
> the two sets of DCOs from different clocks.
>
> The best way to replace a TOG with PICs would be to use little 8-pin
> chips and use twelve of them!
>
> If that seems like too many chips, pull all the divider chips out as
> well, and then replace the TOG and the dividers by having twelve
> chips that each produce a single note at all required octaves.
>
> > But if one IS going to do it - please use a RF vco for the clock of
> > the
> > micro, so one can pitchbend the instrument.
>
> This could also be done with an A/D input and software, but the point
> still stands.
>
> T.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From thescum at surfree.com  Fri May  2 01:43:06 2008
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 17:43:06 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
Message-ID: <1996365.1209685386672.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>Don't you think you could get 12 square-wave NCOs into a single dsPIC33F 
>running at the full 40MHz clock rate? It might be a little tight, but I 
>bet you could do it. You might sacrifice a little frequency resolution 
>by running them on only 16-bit phase accumulators to speed things up a 
>tad, but it probably wouldn't be any worse than the 9-bit divisors 
>mentioned earlier.

Since I'm working with this sort of hardware a lot at the moment, I start to wonder if there might be some hardware-assist tricks possible to make a cheap micro do a TOG.  Specifically, some PWM hardware.  Is there a small micro with 12 channels of PWM onboard?

Byron Jacquot


From rtellason at verizon.net  Fri May  2 01:48:27 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 19:48:27 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
In-Reply-To: <020501c8abcd$9aaf1530$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu>
	<03773F73-123B-4239-BC14-A53B22060F27@earthlink.net>
	<020501c8abcd$9aaf1530$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <200805011948.27189.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Thursday 01 May 2008 16:54, anthony wrote:
> Hey this has cleared up a sticking point for me! Just try finding 3160's
> anywhere. What about 3140's? They aren't that much different from 3130's
> besides having different supply voltage limitations, right?

They have a bipolar output stage,  if I'm remembering right...

> What about using a mix of what you have? I have a number of NTE7144's (a
> 3140) and RCA 307-073's

Where'd _that_ number come from?


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Fri May  2 02:19:42 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 20:19:42 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
In-Reply-To: <020501c8abcd$9aaf1530$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu>
	<03773F73-123B-4239-BC14-A53B22060F27@earthlink.net>
	<020501c8abcd$9aaf1530$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <A0659868-B191-44A8-B91D-F4D701A717BF@ece.gatech.edu>


On May 1, 2008, at 4:54 PM, anthony wrote:

> Hey this has cleared up a sticking point for me! Just try finding  
> 3160's anywhere. What about 3140's? They aren't that much different  
> from 3130's besides having different supply voltage limitations,  
> right?

The interesting thing about the 3160 and 3130 is they have an output  
stage that can swing "rail-to-rail." This makes the Buchla 259 more  
predictable in that you can calculate what the deadband edges of his  
deadband circuits would be based on the +/- 6V supplied to the op  
amps. That circuit is based on the output hitting a rail and not being  
able go further, so the "golden op amp" rules get broken. (I don't  
think the 3140 has the same property but I haven't looked in detail.)

I think as long as you include the compensation caps, you can replace  
a 3160 with a 3130 no problem (or even mix and match).

One my student cleaned up his wiring a lot of the "goo" disappeared (I  
think there's some "waffle board" gremlins going on, as Harry Bissell  
calls them.)

His 259 nonlinearity section wasn't 100% working - the transfer  
function, instead of a set of teeth, looks more like a set of teeth  
with some higher than others and some knocked out. After many hours of  
debugging we can't find the problem... but we hooked it up to  
speakers, and listened to it, and thought it sounded really  
interesting so I told Alfredo to go ahead and build it in solder. ;)

- Aaron


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Fri May  2 02:27:19 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 20:27:19 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
In-Reply-To: <020501c8abcd$9aaf1530$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu>
	<03773F73-123B-4239-BC14-A53B22060F27@earthlink.net>
	<020501c8abcd$9aaf1530$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <AFE4377E-D5B3-4A01-81AB-5F8942499A6D@ece.gatech.edu>


On May 1, 2008, at 4:54 PM, anthony wrote:

> Hey this has cleared up a sticking point for me! Just try finding  
> 3160's anywhere. What about 3140's? They aren't that much different  
> from 3130's besides having different supply voltage limitations,  
> right?
>
> What about using a mix of what you have? I have a number of  
> NTE7144's (a 3140) and RCA 307-073's (a 3130) - seems like I could  
> mix 'em together in the 259 timbre circuit. Haven't looked at that  
> schematic in a while...

I'll also note that I had another student, in the past, work on the  
259 nonlinearity as an independent study credit thing. He built it  
with 3130s, on a breadboard, with no problem.

I had him experiment with how the nonlinearity changed with the  
resistor tolerances - i.e. do you really need 1% resistors? As far as  
we could tell the sound didn't seem to change when we just put in  
random 5%s. He set up a switching network that he could just switch in  
and out different resistors.

- Aaron


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri May  2 03:04:10 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:04:10 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <000701c8abe3$0f54ca00$93db47d1@ca>
Message-ID: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>

That would be a product of the type of chip used, not inherent to the
process itself, surely?
In any case, if you just had 12 schmits after the outputs, that would get
any hash off the outputs.

Using the output from a digital chip directly as an analog signal is asking
for trouble.

paul perry Melbourne Australia

-----Original Message-----
Another really nasty thing about the TOG + divider approach is that there is
unwanted signal coupling  from all the oscillators and dividers running
continuously, sometimes a noise gate is used to shut off the output to hide
this. Adding the ability to mute outputs that aren't currently in use would
be a good idea, or even just a simple global "mute all" signal.



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri May  2 03:11:11 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:11:11 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <008f01c8abf1$69cb5360$8501a8c0@ice9>

If one makes it a RF oscillator, then you can have theremin-style bending ;D

paul perry Melb Aust

-----Original Message-----
> But if one IS going to do it - please use a RF vco for the clock of  
> the
> micro, so one can pitchbend the instrument.

This could also be done with an A/D input and software, but the point  
still stands.



From tom.corbitt at gmail.com  Fri May  2 03:22:03 2008
From: tom.corbitt at gmail.com (Tom Corbitt)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 21:22:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <1996365.1209685386672.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <1996365.1209685386672.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3de47a20805011822t19709660x71bf4ad5dbd25f72@mail.gmail.com>

What resolution and speed on the PWM? If you're ok/able to push it
offboard there are many different led lighting chips with gobs of PWM
channels that you could use, or if you only needed 8 bit you could bit
bang into old glue logic like the 592 and then mux it.

One plus on an ofboard system with smarts like the led drivers is that
you can set it and forget the pattern you want, so the cpu has more
time for other stuff.

Of course, I'm not clever enough to "see" what you're trying to do
with it yet, so all of the above might not be what you're looking for.

Tom C.

>
> Since I'm working with this sort of hardware a lot at the moment, I start to wonder if there might be some hardware-assist tricks possible to make a cheap micro do a TOG.  Specifically, some PWM hardware.  Is there a small micro with 12 channels of PWM onboard?
>
> Byron Jacquot
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From tonyallgood at btinternet.com  Fri May  2 09:13:38 2008
From: tonyallgood at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 08:13:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <481ABF22.6070505@btinternet.com>

 > That would be a product of the type of chip used, not inherent to the
process itself, surely?

I think Mike means the low level hash we hear from all the 'oscillators' 
bleeding through their diode/transistor key circuitry. Each gate will 
bleed around -80dB and they all add up to create this wideband noise. We 
call this beehiving because of the lovely sound it makes.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Fri May  2 09:52:26 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 03:52:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
Message-ID: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu>

OK, so I'm throwing yet a third oscillator at my student Greg. The  
first two I threw at him were datasheet ones. I know people got the  
AN-299 working, but Greg was getting frustrated, as was I, so I  
figured I'd throw at him the ASM-1 VCO, which is one of the most  
proven, often built, and best understood designs out there.

There are two versions of the ASM-1:

1996: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco.new.pdf

2003: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco-1.1.pdf

The main difference between the two is an NPN transistor at the output  
of the LM311, which appears in the 2003 version but not the 1996  
version.

I reasonably understand the 1996 version - I even did a lecture on it,  
or actually the version that appears in Hal Chamberlin's book.

But this 2003 version with the PNP bewilders me. Alas, that's the one  
I happened to send the link to Greg to build, and the PNP has been  
vexing us today.

He built the oscillator, but it appears the gate is stuck at around 0  
V, so the JFET is conducting, and as we change the CV, we get a DC  
change at the triangle output, but no actual oscillation. The level at  
the + input of the comparitor is less than the 5 V threshold, so the  
output of the comparator is at -15 V; my understanding of BJTs is that  
the transistor at the output is then "off", so no current is flowing  
through the collector, and the gate is more or less hooked to ground.  
And then I'm confused what would happen if the LM311 turns "on" - as  
an open collector output, it should disconnect the base, and then I'm  
not sure what the BJT would do - would it set the gate to the -15  
rail? And if so... isn't that BJT doing the opposite of what we want?  
Like it's almost acting as a logic inverter on the LM311 output.

I get more confused reading the ASM-1 webpage:

"When output of the CA3140 goes above Vref, the comparator LM311 will  
pull its output transistor collector (pin 7) to -15 V since its  
emitter (pin 1) is hooked to
-15V. This will bias the JFET (Q3) into conducting range and reset the  
capacitor C2 through the Rds(ON) of the JFET."

I though setting the gate to -15 V should pinch the JFET "off," not  
put it into conducting range... this is suggested by p. 190 of  
chamberlin, which says: "as ong as the integrator output is less than  
Vref, the comparitor output is negative, which keeps the FET switch  
across the integratind compacitor off, allowing it to charge. As soon  
as the integrator voltage reaches Vref... The comparator output is  
constrained to rise no further than ground but this is enough to fully  
turn on the high-thrshold-voltage FET switch."

So the ASM-1 webpage seems to say that -15 V at the gate does the  
reset, and the Chamberlin book seems to say that 0 V at the gate does  
the reset.

*confused Aaron is confused*

- Aaron


From sasami at hotkey.net.au  Fri May  2 10:53:35 2008
From: sasami at hotkey.net.au (Ken Stone)
Date: Fri,  2 May 2008 18:53:35 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
Message-ID: <20080502085339.2D76D840112@mailout4.hotkey.net.au>

The PNP should be very vexing - it's an NPN!

Ken

>OK, so I'm throwing yet a third oscillator at my student Greg. The  
>first two I threw at him were datasheet ones. I know people got the  
>AN-299 working, but Greg was getting frustrated, as was I, so I  
>figured I'd throw at him the ASM-1 VCO, which is one of the most  
>proven, often built, and best understood designs out there.
>
>There are two versions of the ASM-1:
>
>1996: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco.new.pdf
>
>2003: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco-1.1.pdf
>
>The main difference between the two is an NPN transistor at the output  
>of the LM311, which appears in the 2003 version but not the 1996  
>version.
>
>I reasonably understand the 1996 version - I even did a lecture on it,  
>or actually the version that appears in Hal Chamberlin's book.
>
>But this 2003 version with the PNP bewilders me. Alas, that's the one  
>I happened to send the link to Greg to build, and the PNP has been  
>vexing us today.
>
>He built the oscillator, but it appears the gate is stuck at around 0  
>V, so the JFET is conducting, and as we change the CV, we get a DC  
>change at the triangle output, but no actual oscillation. The level at  
>the + input of the comparitor is less than the 5 V threshold, so the  
>output of the comparator is at -15 V; my understanding of BJTs is that  
>the transistor at the output is then "off", so no current is flowing  
>through the collector, and the gate is more or less hooked to ground.  
>And then I'm confused what would happen if the LM311 turns "on" - as  
>an open collector output, it should disconnect the base, and then I'm  
>not sure what the BJT would do - would it set the gate to the -15  
>rail? And if so... isn't that BJT doing the opposite of what we want?  
>Like it's almost acting as a logic inverter on the LM311 output.
>
>I get more confused reading the ASM-1 webpage:
>
>"When output of the CA3140 goes above Vref, the comparator LM311 will  
>pull its output transistor collector (pin 7) to -15 V since its  
>emitter (pin 1) is hooked to
>-15V. This will bias the JFET (Q3) into conducting range and reset the  
>capacitor C2 through the Rds(ON) of the JFET."
>
>I though setting the gate to -15 V should pinch the JFET "off," not  
>put it into conducting range... this is suggested by p. 190 of  
>chamberlin, which says: "as ong as the integrator output is less than  
>Vref, the comparitor output is negative, which keeps the FET switch  
>across the integratind compacitor off, allowing it to charge. As soon  
>as the integrator voltage reaches Vref... The comparator output is  
>constrained to rise no further than ground but this is enough to fully  
>turn on the high-thrshold-voltage FET switch."
>
>So the ASM-1 webpage seems to say that -15 V at the gate does the  
>reset, and the Chamberlin book seems to say that 0 V at the gate does  
>the reset.
>
>*confused Aaron is confused*
>
>- Aaron
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone   sasami at hotkey.net.au
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>



From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri May  2 11:08:32 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:08:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <481A4E03.60405@earthlink.net>
References: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>
	<481A4E03.60405@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <90F428E1-176E-4044-B77C-DAFB75218F85@electricdruid.net>


On 2 May 2008, at 00:10, Eric Brombaugh wrote:

> Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
>> The best way to replace a TOG with PICs would be to use little 8- 
>> pin chips and use twelve of them!
>> If that seems like too many chips, pull all the divider chips out  
>> as well, and then replace the TOG and the dividers by having  
>> twelve chips that each produce a single note at all required octaves.
>
> Don't you think you could get 12 square-wave NCOs into a single  
> dsPIC33F running at the full 40MHz clock rate? It might be a little  
> tight, but I bet you could do it. You might sacrifice a little  
> frequency resolution by running them on only 16-bit phase  
> accumulators to speed things up a tad, but it probably wouldn't be  
> any worse than the 9-bit divisors mentioned earlier.

Yes, I'm sure you could on a dsPIC, but I wanted a 8-bit solution!  
(Ok, I know I'm just being too demanding...)

Actually, my motivation for saying the 'best way' was to use twelve  
chips was just that it regains the free-phase element between the  
notes of the octave. As Paul Perry pointed out, this makes a big  
difference to the sound. Obviously it'd be neater (and more  
satisfying from an engineering point of view!) to get it all onto one  
chip.

Byron's idea of finding something that has 12 PWM modules and then  
using those to produce the output frequencies is good, and that might  
even work on 8-bit chips. You might need a couple of them I suppose,  
but still.

One other idea that occurs is whether there might be a way to do this  
with vertical counters. They tend to be very efficient codewise (and  
therefore quick). Perhaps that's how the NCOs could be done.

T.




From mnaef at navisto.ch  Fri May  2 11:46:46 2008
From: mnaef at navisto.ch (Martin Naef)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:46:46 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <90F428E1-176E-4044-B77C-DAFB75218F85@electricdruid.net>
References: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>	<A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>	<481A4E03.60405@earthlink.net>
	<90F428E1-176E-4044-B77C-DAFB75218F85@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <481AE306.4050209@navisto.ch>

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> Byron's idea of finding something that has 12 PWM modules and then using 
> those to produce the output frequencies is good, and that might even 
> work on 8-bit chips. You might need a couple of them I suppose, but still.

It might be worth looking at the Atmel AT90PWM3 chip, which has plenty
of PWM functionality (not 12 independent modules, though). It should be
possible to use a combination of internal and external clock sources for
the different counter modules to at least get some degree of phase
independence.

While I haven't used that particular chip, I found that the AVRs are
very easy to use in a DIY context.

Bye
Martin

-- 
http://www.navisto.ch
http://www.myspace.com/navisto



From profpep at hotmail.com  Fri May  2 11:51:19 2008
From: profpep at hotmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:51:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
References: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY111-DAV1128AE7ED5BF767DCE928A1DA0@phx.gbl>

From: "Aaron Lanterman" <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
> There are two versions of the ASM-1:
>
> 1996: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco.new.pdf
>
> 2003: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco-1.1.pdf
>
> The main difference between the two is an NPN transistor at the output
> of the LM311, which appears in the 2003 version but not the 1996
> version.

The Elby ASM2 version has gone back to no transistor:

http://www.elby-designs.com/asm-2/vco/vco1-cco-asm2-cct.pdf

My personal view is that the transistor has been drawn in to emphasize that
the LM311 has an open collector output, and is actually meant to be part of
the IC. Note that it has no component identifier or part number. Taking a
look at the Nat Semi datasheet: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM311.pdf
(time for a new acronym: RTFD), shows the LM311 to have an open collector
output - so an external NPN wired as show could not actually work - the base
of the NPN would be connected to -15 Volts or  left open circuit depending
upon the state of the comparator.

The drawings don't show the connections of all the pins of the LM311 - take
a look at the Elby drawing to see what I mean.

One personal peeve about a lot of CAD circuit diagrams is the way they tend
to favour layout space over clarity. Having the Comparator in line and to
the right of the integrator and a bit of tidying would show the function and
signal flow much better.

With reagard to the stuck oscillator take note of the bit on th ASM 1
homepage about the drain/source connections of the FET.

Hope this helps

Mike




>> But this 2003 version with the PNP bewilders me. Alas, that's the one
> I happened to send the link to Greg to build, and the PNP has been
> vexing us today.
>
> He built the oscillator, but it appears the gate is stuck at around 0
> V, so the JFET is conducting, and as we change the CV, we get a DC
> change at the triangle output, but no actual oscillation. The level at
> the + input of the comparitor is less than the 5 V threshold, so the
> output of the comparator is at -15 V; my understanding of BJTs is that
> the transistor at the output is then "off", so no current is flowing
> through the collector, and the gate is more or less hooked to ground.
> And then I'm confused what would happen if the LM311 turns "on" - as
> an open collector output, it should disconnect the base, and then I'm
> not sure what the BJT would do - would it set the gate to the -15
> rail? And if so... isn't that BJT doing the opposite of what we want?
> Like it's almost acting as a logic inverter on the LM311 output.
>
> I get more confused reading the ASM-1 webpage:
>
> "When output of the CA3140 goes above Vref, the comparator LM311 will
> pull its output transistor collector (pin 7) to -15 V since its
> emitter (pin 1) is hooked to
> -15V. This will bias the JFET (Q3) into conducting range and reset the
> capacitor C2 through the Rds(ON) of the JFET."
>
> I though setting the gate to -15 V should pinch the JFET "off," not
> put it into conducting range... this is suggested by p. 190 of
> chamberlin, which says: "as ong as the integrator output is less than
> Vref, the comparitor output is negative, which keeps the FET switch
> across the integratind compacitor off, allowing it to charge. As soon
> as the integrator voltage reaches Vref... The comparator output is
> constrained to rise no further than ground but this is enough to fully
> turn on the high-thrshold-voltage FET switch."
>
> So the ASM-1 webpage seems to say that -15 V at the gate does the
> reset, and the Chamberlin book seems to say that 0 V at the gate does
> the reset.
>
> *confused Aaron is confused*



From peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk  Fri May  2 11:59:15 2008
From: peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk (Pete Swarbrick)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:59:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
In-Reply-To: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096361@eumail.eu.panavision.com>

Aaron et al,

Isn't that (NPN!) transistor just the open collector o/p stage of the
311 drawn separately? It's not annotated with a part no. and since there
are no pin numbers either this seems the most likely answer. I don't see
any other explanation but can readily see why it is confusing !
Incidentally, I have just built three 3rd generation Minimoog VCOs for(
yet another) mini clone project requested by a friend. Although the
parts count is higher they are really sweet to build, align and listen
to! Tony Allgood's Oakley Sound 'One-of Three' VCO used the same core
with some updated components and additional waveshaping/buffering; a
great update of an old design.

Just my twopennorth
Best
Pete
PETER SWARBRICK
Head of Digital Imaging
 
+44 (0) 20 8839 7338 - Direct
+44 (0) 7958 597777  - Mobile
 

 
PANAVISION
Metropolitan Centre, Bristol Road
Greenford, Middlesex UB6 8GD
+44 (0) 20 8839 7333
www.panavision.co.uk
 

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Aaron
Lanterman
Sent: 02 May 2008 08:52
To: SDIY DIY
Cc: Greg Hartl
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions

OK, so I'm throwing yet a third oscillator at my student Greg. The  
first two I threw at him were datasheet ones. I know people got the  
AN-299 working, but Greg was getting frustrated, as was I, so I  
figured I'd throw at him the ASM-1 VCO, which is one of the most  
proven, often built, and best understood designs out there.

There are two versions of the ASM-1:

1996: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco.new.pdf

2003: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco-1.1.pdf

The main difference between the two is an NPN transistor at the output  
of the LM311, which appears in the 2003 version but not the 1996  
version.

I reasonably understand the 1996 version - I even did a lecture on it,  
or actually the version that appears in Hal Chamberlin's book.

But this 2003 version with the PNP bewilders me. Alas, that's the one  
I happened to send the link to Greg to build, and the PNP has been  
vexing us today.

He built the oscillator, but it appears the gate is stuck at around 0  
V, so the JFET is conducting, and as we change the CV, we get a DC  
change at the triangle output, but no actual oscillation. The level at  
the + input of the comparitor is less than the 5 V threshold, so the  
output of the comparator is at -15 V; my understanding of BJTs is that  
the transistor at the output is then "off", so no current is flowing  
through the collector, and the gate is more or less hooked to ground.  
And then I'm confused what would happen if the LM311 turns "on" - as  
an open collector output, it should disconnect the base, and then I'm  
not sure what the BJT would do - would it set the gate to the -15  
rail? And if so... isn't that BJT doing the opposite of what we want?  
Like it's almost acting as a logic inverter on the LM311 output.

I get more confused reading the ASM-1 webpage:

"When output of the CA3140 goes above Vref, the comparator LM311 will  
pull its output transistor collector (pin 7) to -15 V since its  
emitter (pin 1) is hooked to
-15V. This will bias the JFET (Q3) into conducting range and reset the  
capacitor C2 through the Rds(ON) of the JFET."

I though setting the gate to -15 V should pinch the JFET "off," not  
put it into conducting range... this is suggested by p. 190 of  
chamberlin, which says: "as ong as the integrator output is less than  
Vref, the comparitor output is negative, which keeps the FET switch  
across the integratind compacitor off, allowing it to charge. As soon  
as the integrator voltage reaches Vref... The comparator output is  
constrained to rise no further than ground but this is enough to fully  
turn on the high-thrshold-voltage FET switch."

So the ASM-1 webpage seems to say that -15 V at the gate does the  
reset, and the Chamberlin book seems to say that 0 V at the gate does  
the reset.

*confused Aaron is confused*

- Aaron
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

checked by CanIt4



From peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk  Fri May  2 12:19:19 2008
From: peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk (Pete Swarbrick)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:19:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
In-Reply-To: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096362@eumail.eu.panavision.com>

What I forgot to say in the previous post is that I assume it has been
drawn like this to clarify that the emitter, which in the 311 is
connected to Pin 1 and labelled GND, needs to be connected to -15V in
this circuit. I seem to remember hooking up a vectorboard ASM VCO and
blindly tying pin 1 to 0V as I had always done when using a 311 and then
troubleshooting referring to the 311 datasheet. ( as Mike says- RTFD) 

Pete

PETER SWARBRICK
Head of Digital Imaging
 
+44 (0) 20 8839 7338 - Direct
+44 (0) 7958 597777  - Mobile
 

 
PANAVISION
Metropolitan Centre, Bristol Road
Greenford, Middlesex UB6 8GD
+44 (0) 20 8839 7333
www.panavision.co.uk
 

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Aaron
Lanterman
Sent: 02 May 2008 08:52
To: SDIY DIY
Cc: Greg Hartl
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions

OK, so I'm throwing yet a third oscillator at my student Greg. The  
first two I threw at him were datasheet ones. I know people got the  
AN-299 working, but Greg was getting frustrated, as was I, so I  
figured I'd throw at him the ASM-1 VCO, which is one of the most  
proven, often built, and best understood designs out there.

There are two versions of the ASM-1:

1996: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco.new.pdf

2003: http://home.swipnet.se/cfmd/synths/friends/stopp/asm1vco-1.1.pdf

The main difference between the two is an NPN transistor at the output  
of the LM311, which appears in the 2003 version but not the 1996  
version.

I reasonably understand the 1996 version - I even did a lecture on it,  
or actually the version that appears in Hal Chamberlin's book.

But this 2003 version with the PNP bewilders me. Alas, that's the one  
I happened to send the link to Greg to build, and the PNP has been  
vexing us today.

He built the oscillator, but it appears the gate is stuck at around 0  
V, so the JFET is conducting, and as we change the CV, we get a DC  
change at the triangle output, but no actual oscillation. The level at  
the + input of the comparitor is less than the 5 V threshold, so the  
output of the comparator is at -15 V; my understanding of BJTs is that  
the transistor at the output is then "off", so no current is flowing  
through the collector, and the gate is more or less hooked to ground.  
And then I'm confused what would happen if the LM311 turns "on" - as  
an open collector output, it should disconnect the base, and then I'm  
not sure what the BJT would do - would it set the gate to the -15  
rail? And if so... isn't that BJT doing the opposite of what we want?  
Like it's almost acting as a logic inverter on the LM311 output.

I get more confused reading the ASM-1 webpage:

"When output of the CA3140 goes above Vref, the comparator LM311 will  
pull its output transistor collector (pin 7) to -15 V since its  
emitter (pin 1) is hooked to
-15V. This will bias the JFET (Q3) into conducting range and reset the  
capacitor C2 through the Rds(ON) of the JFET."

I though setting the gate to -15 V should pinch the JFET "off," not  
put it into conducting range... this is suggested by p. 190 of  
chamberlin, which says: "as ong as the integrator output is less than  
Vref, the comparitor output is negative, which keeps the FET switch  
across the integratind compacitor off, allowing it to charge. As soon  
as the integrator voltage reaches Vref... The comparator output is  
constrained to rise no further than ground but this is enough to fully  
turn on the high-thrshold-voltage FET switch."

So the ASM-1 webpage seems to say that -15 V at the gate does the  
reset, and the Chamberlin book seems to say that 0 V at the gate does  
the reset.

*confused Aaron is confused*

- Aaron
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

checked by CanIt4



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Fri May  2 15:16:01 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 09:16:01 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
In-Reply-To: <20080502085339.2D76D840112@mailout4.hotkey.net.au>
References: <20080502085339.2D76D840112@mailout4.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <0196B0C4-62CF-4834-ACCB-9420B44275EA@ece.gatech.edu>


On May 2, 2008, at 4:53 AM, Ken Stone wrote:

> The PNP should be very vexing - it's an NPN!

Ah, I mistyped when I wrote PNP twice. I meant to write NPN (which is  
what he has in the circuit.)

- Aaron



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Fri May  2 15:23:09 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 09:23:09 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV1128AE7ED5BF767DCE928A1DA0@phx.gbl>
References: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu>
	<BAY111-DAV1128AE7ED5BF767DCE928A1DA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B7E4E1CD-751B-4BE3-BA6C-AF76E6A98F57@ece.gatech.edu>

On May 2, 2008, at 5:51 AM, Mike wrote:
>
> My personal view is that the transistor has been drawn in to  
> emphasize that
> the LM311 has an open collector output, and is actually meant to be  
> part of
> the IC. Note that it has no component identifier or part number.  
> Taking a
> look at the Nat Semi datasheet: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/ 
> LM311.pdf
> (time for a new acronym: RTFD), shows the LM311 to have an open  
> collector
> output - so an external NPN wired as show could not actually work -  
> the base
> of the NPN would be connected to -15 Volts or  left open circuit  
> depending
> upon the state of the comparator.

Based on all the responses, you're absolutely right.

> One personal peeve about a lot of CAD circuit diagrams is the way  
> they tend
> to favour layout space over clarity. Having the Comparator in line  
> and to
> the right of the integrator and a bit of tidying would show the  
> function and
> signal flow much better.

> With reagard to the stuck oscillator take note of the bit on th ASM 1
> homepage about the drain/source connections of the FET.

It will probably oscillator better once we take out the extra  
mysterious NPN. ;)

- Aaron


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Fri May  2 15:25:14 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 09:25:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
In-Reply-To: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096362@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
References: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu>
	<F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096362@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
Message-ID: <ACCC0B79-7B83-4A98-B9CF-A0E135535B00@ece.gatech.edu>


On May 2, 2008, at 6:19 AM, Pete Swarbrick wrote:

> What I forgot to say in the previous post is that I assume it has been
> drawn like this to clarify that the emitter, which in the 311 is
> connected to Pin 1 and labelled GND, needs to be connected to -15V in
> this circuit. I seem to remember hooking up a vectorboard ASM VCO and
> blindly tying pin 1 to 0V as I had always done when using a 311 and  
> then
> troubleshooting referring to the 311 datasheet. ( as Mike says- RTFD)

We did catch the pin 1 to -15 trick (I remembered that from the  
Chamberlin book).

I'll let folks know what happens once we remove the extra NPN.

- Aaron


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Fri May  2 15:36:52 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:36:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
In-Reply-To: <A0659868-B191-44A8-B91D-F4D701A717BF@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu>
	<03773F73-123B-4239-BC14-A53B22060F27@earthlink.net>
	<020501c8abcd$9aaf1530$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<A0659868-B191-44A8-B91D-F4D701A717BF@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20080502133518.M3532@wowway.com>

Aaron wrote:


> One my student cleaned up his wiring a lot of the "goo" disappeared 
> (I  think there's some "waffle board" gremlins going on, as Harry 
> Bissell  calls them.)

I have used some disparaging names for "Solderless-slab-o'-trouble" but
I don't think I coinec the phrase "waffle board".

They ~do~ suck, btw...    :^)

H^) harry


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Fri May  2 15:40:46 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:40:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Need schematic for VOX Stereo Multi-Voice octaver fuzz
In-Reply-To: <911923.66317.qm@web26210.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <911923.66317.qm@web26210.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080502134026.M52341@wowway.com>

I'd like to see that schematic as well... (tia)

H^) harry



On Thu, 1 May 2008 18:03:40 +0000 (GMT), Karl Ekdahl wrote
> Hi List, sorry for the slightly OT subject. If anyone has a 
> schematic, or knows where i'd be able to get schematics for a Vox 
> Stereo Multi-Voice octaver fuzz i'd appreciate to know. This thing 
> is built int the late 60's - early 70's and makes sounds that are 
> indeed octaved, but i can't get a clean tone and the bypass switches 
> only turns on/off what seems to be a 60Hz feedback signal. Any 
> insights appreciated!
> 
> Karl
> 
>       __________________________________________________________
> L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Yahoo!
> http://shopping.yahoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From music.maker at gte.net  Fri May  2 15:44:06 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 06:44:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
Message-ID: <200805021344.m42Di5Qw008405@linux7.lan>

harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:
>Aaron wrote:
>
>
>> One my student cleaned up his wiring a lot of the "goo" disappeared 
>> (I  think there's some "waffle board" gremlins going on, as Harry 
>> Bissell  calls them.)
>
>I have used some disparaging names for "Solderless-slab-o'-trouble" but
>I don't think I coinec the phrase "waffle board".
>
>They ~do~ suck, btw...    :^)

Actually, they don't suck unless you misuse or abuse them.  Mine have worked and
lasted for many years.

(c:

-- ScottG

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- GateMan-III - FPGA Based Monophonic MIDI Synthesizer with SVF
-- PolyDaWG/8 - FPGA Based 8 Voice Polyphonic MIDI Synthesizer
-- phLUTe - FPGA Based Monophonic Physical Model MIDI Synthesizer
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Fri May  2 16:07:51 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:07:51 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
In-Reply-To: <200805021344.m42Di5Qw008405@linux7.lan>
References: <200805021344.m42Di5Qw008405@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <18EA276B-A639-4171-B4B9-0B21D4622086@ece.gatech.edu>


On May 2, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
> Actually, they don't suck unless you misuse or abuse them.  Mine  
> have worked and lasted for many years.

If you wanna see misuse and abuse of breadboards (and equipment in  
general) - go teach in a EE department. ;)

Oh, the Things I have seen...

- Aaron


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri May  2 16:18:03 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 00:18:03 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
In-Reply-To: <200805021344.m42Di5Qw008405@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <004601c8ac5f$56083c30$8501a8c0@ice9>

I suppose solderless breadboards are something that opinions will differ on.
And that is because, different people do different things with them.

Personally, I'm too clumsy to use them - but that's another matter.

What is undeniable, is that there is a certain amount of stray capacitance
and inductance and even high-resistance leakage associated with them.
Some worse than others.

It's not likely to be a problem at audio frequencies, but when you get up
higher, or if you have very high impedance circuit points - you can find
trouble.

Personally, I prefer to use stripboard. It may be slower (though not for
me!) but, when it works, I have a finished board ;D

paul perry melbourne Australia

(if you DO want to  use solderless boards, put them on a slab of wood or
something & run a metal L section beside it, with holes to mount pots &
switches.)




From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Fri May  2 16:19:27 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 16:19:27 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
In-Reply-To: <18EA276B-A639-4171-B4B9-0B21D4622086@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <200805021344.m42Di5Qw008405@linux7.lan>
	<18EA276B-A639-4171-B4B9-0B21D4622086@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20080502.161927.94341560962326193.cfmd@bredband.net>

From: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:07:51 -0400
Message-ID: <18EA276B-A639-4171-B4B9-0B21D4622086 at ece.gatech.edu>

Hi Aaron,

> 
> On May 2, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
> >
> > Actually, they don't suck unless you misuse or abuse them.  Mine have worked and lasted for many years.
> 
> If you wanna see misuse and abuse of breadboards (and equipment in general) - go teach in a EE department. ;)
> 
> Oh, the Things I have seen...

I have a faint idea of what you are talking about, and it makes me faint...

Which reminds me, I need to clear the labbench. That will involve re-arranging
my fullheight rack... and I just realized that I need more rack space. Need to
bring that little rack back home... and... and... need a bunch of GPIB cables.

Cheers,
Magnus


From music.maker at gte.net  Fri May  2 16:24:42 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 07:24:42 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
Message-ID: <200805021424.m42EOgPr012991@linux7.lan>

Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:
>
>On May 2, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>>
>> Actually, they don't suck unless you misuse or abuse them.  Mine  
>> have worked and lasted for many years.
>
>If you wanna see misuse and abuse of breadboards (and equipment in  
>general) - go teach in a EE department. ;)
>
>Oh, the Things I have seen...

I have a son...  (c:   And I don't yet let him use the SBB...  In my "class" of
one student, my constant supervision helps preserve the equipment.  I imagine you
don't have the luxury of a pair of eyes per student...

-- ScottG

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- GateMan-III - FPGA Based Monophonic MIDI Synthesizer with SVF
-- PolyDaWG/8 - FPGA Based 8 Voice Polyphonic MIDI Synthesizer
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From debus at cityweb.de  Fri May  2 16:45:00 2008
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 16:45:00 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <008f01c8abf1$69cb5360$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <008f01c8abf1$69cb5360$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <5B3BCA2B-ECC0-4409-B9A3-62B9EB13E808@cityweb.de>


Am 02.05.2008 um 03:11 schrieb Paul Perry:

> If one makes it a RF oscillator, then you can have theremin-style  
> bending ;D

But only with a very narrow range, no?
On a theremin, the frequency range of the output is the same as the  
one of the variable oscillator. Opposed to that, if the output  
frequency of a RF oscillator is divided down, the range will be  
divided down by the same ratio.

Ingo


From rtarcan at superonline.com  Fri May  2 16:57:37 2008
From: rtarcan at superonline.com (rizacan)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 17:57:37 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
In-Reply-To: <B7E4E1CD-751B-4BE3-BA6C-AF76E6A98F57@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c8ac64$ddd68630$886f6355@itufbd10a3cb9f>

The NPN transistor is correct but (+)and(-)pins of LM311 must be
reversed. 
Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Aaron
Lanterman
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 4:23 PM
To: SDIY DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO
versions

On May 2, 2008, at 5:51 AM, Mike wrote:
>
> My personal view is that the transistor has been drawn in to  
> emphasize that
> the LM311 has an open collector output, and is actually meant to be  
> part of
> the IC. Note that it has no component identifier or part number.  
> Taking a
> look at the Nat Semi datasheet: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/ 
> LM311.pdf
> (time for a new acronym: RTFD), shows the LM311 to have an open  
> collector
> output - so an external NPN wired as show could not actually work -  
> the base
> of the NPN would be connected to -15 Volts or  left open circuit  
> depending
> upon the state of the comparator.

Based on all the responses, you're absolutely right.

> One personal peeve about a lot of CAD circuit diagrams is the way  
> they tend
> to favour layout space over clarity. Having the Comparator in line  
> and to
> the right of the integrator and a bit of tidying would show the  
> function and
> signal flow much better.

> With reagard to the stuck oscillator take note of the bit on th ASM 1
> homepage about the drain/source connections of the FET.

It will probably oscillator better once we take out the extra  
mysterious NPN. ;)

- Aaron
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From daugard at sprintmail.com  Fri May  2 17:20:20 2008
From: daugard at sprintmail.com (Tim Daugard)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:20:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
References: <008f01c8abf1$69cb5360$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<5B3BCA2B-ECC0-4409-B9A3-62B9EB13E808@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <000601c8ac68$0a6d2340$0200a8c0@YOURBC185A12A1>

>> If one makes it a RF oscillator, then you can have theremin-style 
>> bending ;D
>
> But only with a very narrow range, no?

Yeah, I thought about using a variable RF oscillator, but It would only be 
good for tuning the notes. A VC RF oscillator with 1/2 octave range or more 
(with extreme stability) would be an impressive project.

Tim Daugard

New computer. New OS, and a demo version of Office 2007, that I don't even 
want on the computer, just wiped out spell check.



From rtellason at verizon.net  Fri May  2 18:04:38 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 12:04:38 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <200805021204.38240.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Thursday 01 May 2008 21:04, Paul Perry wrote:
> That would be a product of the type of chip used, not inherent to the
> process itself, surely?

I'm thinking of all that background noise I used to hear in some of those 
organs I worked on....

> In any case, if you just had 12 schmits after the outputs, that would get
> any hash off the outputs.

It's not at the outputs,  but all that stuff going on being picked up 
elsewhere,  particularly in any lower-level circuitry that's the problem.

> Using the output from a digital chip directly as an analog signal is asking
> for trouble.
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Another really nasty thing about the TOG + divider approach is that there
> is unwanted signal coupling  from all the oscillators and dividers running
> continuously, sometimes a noise gate is used to shut off the output to hide
> this. Adding the ability to mute outputs that aren't currently in use would
> be a good idea, or even just a simple global "mute all" signal.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From rtellason at verizon.net  Fri May  2 18:54:48 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 12:54:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
In-Reply-To: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096361@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
References: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu>
	<F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096361@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
Message-ID: <200805021254.48808.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Friday 02 May 2008 05:59, Pete Swarbrick wrote:
> Aaron et al,
>
> Isn't that (NPN!) transistor just the open collector o/p stage of the
> 311 drawn separately? It's not annotated with a part no. and since there
> are no pin numbers either this seems the most likely answer. I don't see
> any other explanation but can readily see why it is confusing !
> Incidentally, I have just built three 3rd generation Minimoog VCOs for(
> yet another) mini clone project requested by a friend. Although the
> parts count is higher they are really sweet to build, align and listen
> to! Tony Allgood's Oakley Sound 'One-of Three' VCO used the same core
> with some updated components and additional waveshaping/buffering; a
> great update of an old design.

What's this 3rd generation stuff?  I have *some* minimoog data,  but didn't 
know that there were 3 versions of those out there.

And yes, I do like that sound.  :-)

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Fri May  2 19:19:59 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 10:19:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <200805021204.38240.rtellason@verizon.net>
References: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<200805021204.38240.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <481B4D3F.4080706@sonic.net>

Roy J. Tellason wrote:
> 
> I'm thinking of all that background noise I used to hear in some of those 
> organs I worked on....
> 
> It's not at the outputs,  but all that stuff going on being picked up 
> elsewhere,  particularly in any lower-level circuitry that's the problem.
> 

In pursuit of emulation perfection, The VOCE tone-wheel modules give you 
a 'Leakage' knob to set the level of all this buzzing crosstalk.

http://www.voceinc.com/

-Dave



From gene at ixiacom.com  Fri May  2 19:41:32 2008
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:41:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions
In-Reply-To: <200805021254.48808.rtellason@verizon.net>
References: <8ECBD80D-07EE-4A31-AEA1-B694115C5C62@ece.gatech.edu><F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096361@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
	<200805021254.48808.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <0A2F39512D881F4690CF73625E4161F53435FC@IXCA-EXCHANGE.ixiacom.com>

Oh yah, the minimoog had 3 major versions:

Version 1:

Metal front panel
Small lettering
Full markings around all control knobs
Clear wheels
All transistors, not a single chip in there

Version 2:

Plastic front panel
Large lettering
Partial markings around the knobs (saving on ink?)
Smooth white wheels
Newer VCO card with 3046 expos and tempcos

Version 3:

Plastic front panel
Large lettering Partial markings around the knobs
Ribbed white wheels
Newest VC0 card with heated 726 expos

They all have their little quirks, sound-wise.
 
- Gene
 


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Roy J. Tellason
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:55 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Mysterious transistor on one of the ASM-1 VCO versions

On Friday 02 May 2008 05:59, Pete Swarbrick wrote:
> Aaron et al,
>
> Isn't that (NPN!) transistor just the open collector o/p stage of the
> 311 drawn separately? It's not annotated with a part no. and since there
> are no pin numbers either this seems the most likely answer. I don't see
> any other explanation but can readily see why it is confusing !
> Incidentally, I have just built three 3rd generation Minimoog VCOs for(
> yet another) mini clone project requested by a friend. Although the
> parts count is higher they are really sweet to build, align and listen
> to! Tony Allgood's Oakley Sound 'One-of Three' VCO used the same core
> with some updated components and additional waveshaping/buffering; a
> great update of an old design.

What's this 3rd generation stuff?  I have *some* minimoog data,  but didn't 
know that there were 3 versions of those out there.

And yes, I do like that sound.  :-)

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Fri May  2 19:41:36 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 10:41:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] linearizing a JFET used as voltage controlled resistor.
Message-ID: <481B5250.1070102@sonic.net>

Probably basic stuff to some of you, but I'm more of a digital guy than 
analog. This app note gives the basics on using JFETs as voltage 
controlled resistors - including a clear description of how to linearize 
the response.

http://www.vishay.com/docs/70598/70598.pdf

I had a question a while back about why in the YuSynth VCS3/Synthi 
filter part of the resonance feedback signal is coupled into the gate of 
the FET.  This app note makes it clear.  May also explain a recent 
question about the same question regarding a Buchla design.

-Dave



From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Fri May  2 20:25:17 2008
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragon.servicing)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 19:25:17 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generators, beehiving and leakage
In-Reply-To: <481B4D3F.4080706@sonic.net>
References: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>	<200805021204.38240.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<481B4D3F.4080706@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <481B5C8D.1030207@googlemail.com>

Hi,
I think that the background noise on the older organs is called 
Beehiving. some models have worse background noises than others. It 
seems it is quite hard to design an organ that has a low background 
noise. Dc switching ( electronic switching ) on the keyboards ( rather 
than switching the audio directly ) can help as you can then keep the 
audio signals away from other bits of wiring and circuitry.
I think the leakage knob may be to simulate the effect of all the 
different tonewheels being together on a Hammond organ.
( the signal levels from the tonewheel generators are quite small, so 
there may be coupling ? effects between them) .
regards Peter



Dave Manley wrote:
> Roy J. Tellason wrote:
>>
>> I'm thinking of all that background noise I used to hear in some of 
>> those organs I worked on....
>>
>> It's not at the outputs,  but all that stuff going on being picked up 
>> elsewhere,  particularly in any lower-level circuitry that's the problem.
>>
> 
> In pursuit of emulation perfection, The VOCE tone-wheel modules give you 
> a 'Leakage' knob to set the level of all this buzzing crosstalk.
> 
> http://www.voceinc.com/
> 
> -Dave



From philmacnutt at mac.com  Fri May  2 20:51:17 2008
From: philmacnutt at mac.com (phil macnutt)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 11:51:17 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] knobs?
Message-ID: <96794EA6-0119-1000-9716-0C481C7BE602-Webmail-10021@mac.com>

hi guys,
Phil MacNutt, long time occasional lurker here...

Any chance that somebody is planning an order of knobs from Cosmo (Moog knobs)?  they have a minimum, and in low quantities they are quite expensive, so i thought if somebody else was planning an order i could piggyback on it.  I need 25 or 30 normal size and about 10 rotary selectors.

best regards to all,
Phil

p.s.  I just received my J.H., freq. shifter boards.  I have both excitement and fear.....

p.p.s  Peng, are you out there?  i could use some jacks.




From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Fri May  2 21:21:14 2008
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (Mike I)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 15:21:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generators, beehiving and leakage
References: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>	<200805021204.38240.rtellason@verizon.net><481B4D3F.4080706@sonic.net>
	<481B5C8D.1030207@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <002501c8ac89$b122bd00$f1db47d1@ca>

That old  ETI- Powertran String-thing article by Tim Orr makes some mention
of the beehiving problem.

Funny to see that   "Key Click" and "Leakage" have become virtues    :D



----- Original Message -----
From: dragon.servicing <dragon.servicing at googlemail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 2:25 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generators, beehiving and leakage


> Hi,
> I think that the background noise on the older organs is called
> Beehiving. some models have worse background noises than others. It
> seems it is quite hard to design an organ that has a low background
> noise. Dc switching ( electronic switching ) on the keyboards ( rather
> than switching the audio directly ) can help as you can then keep the
> audio signals away from other bits of wiring and circuitry.
> I think the leakage knob may be to simulate the effect of all the
> different tonewheels being together on a Hammond organ.
> ( the signal levels from the tonewheel generators are quite small, so
> there may be coupling ? effects between them) .
> regards Peter
>
>
>
> Dave Manley wrote:
> > Roy J. Tellason wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of all that background noise I used to hear in some of
> >> those organs I worked on....
> >>
> >> It's not at the outputs,  but all that stuff going on being picked up
> >> elsewhere,  particularly in any lower-level circuitry that's the
problem.
> >>
> >
> > In pursuit of emulation perfection, The VOCE tone-wheel modules give you
> > a 'Leakage' knob to set the level of all this buzzing crosstalk.
> >
> > http://www.voceinc.com/
> >
> > -Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From rtellason at verizon.net  Fri May  2 21:41:44 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 15:41:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generators, beehiving and leakage
In-Reply-To: <481B5C8D.1030207@googlemail.com>
References: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9> <481B4D3F.4080706@sonic.net>
	<481B5C8D.1030207@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <200805021541.45686.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Friday 02 May 2008 14:25, dragon.servicing wrote:
> Hi,
> I think that the background noise on the older organs is called
> Beehiving. some models have worse background noises than others. It
> seems it is quite hard to design an organ that has a low background
> noise. Dc switching ( electronic switching ) on the keyboards ( rather
> than switching the audio directly ) can help as you can then keep the
> audio signals away from other bits of wiring and circuitry.
> I think the leakage knob may be to simulate the effect of all the
> different tonewheels being together on a Hammond organ.
> ( the signal levels from the tonewheel generators are quite small, so
> there may be coupling ? effects between them) .
> regards Peter

Some of the worst offenders in that regard were Hammond organs all right,  but 
not the tonewheel generated ones,  but rather the later all-solid-state 
units.  The name "Concorde" comes to mind for one example.  I think that 
ground connections and such got worse over time,  too.  There were times when 
I ran multiple service calls for the same customer over a period of years,  
and saw this sort of thing getting worse.  Darn near impossible to track 
down,  too...

> Dave Manley wrote:
> > Roy J. Tellason wrote:
> >> I'm thinking of all that background noise I used to hear in some of
> >> those organs I worked on....
> >>
> >> It's not at the outputs,  but all that stuff going on being picked up
> >> elsewhere,  particularly in any lower-level circuitry that's the
> >> problem.
> >
> > In pursuit of emulation perfection, The VOCE tone-wheel modules give you
> > a 'Leakage' knob to set the level of all this buzzing crosstalk.
> >
> > http://www.voceinc.com/
> >
> > -Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Fri May  2 22:01:04 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 13:01:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generators, beehiving and leakage
In-Reply-To: <002501c8ac89$b122bd00$f1db47d1@ca>
References: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<200805021204.38240.rtellason@verizon.net> <481B4D3F.4080706@sonic.net>
	<481B5C8D.1030207@googlemail.com> <002501c8ac89$b122bd00$f1db47d1@ca>
Message-ID: <7FD4610A-C325-4705-B8BB-B99B9BF1ACDB@shaw.ca>

DPX. Had one once. Drove across the UK to get it as well in a borrowed  
wreck of a car. Wish I could find the schematic. Had a great great  
chorus section that I added an external input to. I quite liked the  
string sound from it too, had a raspy edge to it which made it stand  
out.

If anyone has the schematics or ETI articles...


On 2-May-08, at 12:21 PM, Mike I wrote:
> That old  ETI- Powertran String-thing article by Tim Orr makes some  
> mention
> of the beehiving problem.
>
> Funny to see that   "Key Click" and "Leakage" have become  
> virtues    :D
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dragon.servicing <dragon.servicing at googlemail.com>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 2:25 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generators, beehiving and leakage
>
>
>> Hi,
>> I think that the background noise on the older organs is called
>> Beehiving. some models have worse background noises than others. It
>> seems it is quite hard to design an organ that has a low background
>> noise. Dc switching ( electronic switching ) on the keyboards  
>> ( rather
>> than switching the audio directly ) can help as you can then keep the
>> audio signals away from other bits of wiring and circuitry.
>> I think the leakage knob may be to simulate the effect of all the
>> different tonewheels being together on a Hammond organ.
>> ( the signal levels from the tonewheel generators are quite small, so
>> there may be coupling ? effects between them) .
>> regards Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave Manley wrote:
>>> Roy J. Tellason wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking of all that background noise I used to hear in some of
>>>> those organs I worked on....
>>>>
>>>> It's not at the outputs,  but all that stuff going on being  
>>>> picked up
>>>> elsewhere,  particularly in any lower-level circuitry that's the
> problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>> In pursuit of emulation perfection, The VOCE tone-wheel modules  
>>> give you
>>> a 'Leakage' knob to set the level of all this buzzing crosstalk.
>>>
>>> http://www.voceinc.com/
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Fri May  2 23:08:35 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 23:08:35 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] linearizing a JFET used as voltage controlled resistor.
In-Reply-To: <481B5250.1070102@sonic.net>
References: <481B5250.1070102@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <200805022308.35997.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Freitag 02 Mai 2008, Dave Manley wrote:
> Probably basic stuff to some of you, but I'm more of a digital guy
> than analog. This app note gives the basics on using JFETs as voltage
> controlled resistors - including a clear description of how to
> linearize the response.
>
> http://www.vishay.com/docs/70598/70598.pdf

Two comments: 

1) The App note still beats around the bush with the principle of the 
linearization.  What it should just have plainly said is that you need 
to add V_DS/2 onto V_GS for obtaining the largest dynamic range.  With 
this in mind you can sometimes find different ways to linearize the 
JFET without mucking about with extra resistors.

2) Figure 15 has the polarity of the control voltage reversed.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf microQ V2.22R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Fri May  2 23:47:46 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 17:47:46 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
References: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu><03773F73-123B-4239-BC14-A53B22060F27@earthlink.net><020501c8abcd$9aaf1530$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<200805011948.27189.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <023401c8ac9e$2a852c00$0202a8c0@positronium>

Oh I forgot to say that that was the same thing as a 3130 I guess...

RCA had a whole slew of part No.s that start with 307-. The NTE catalog 
designates these as "Dynascan" parts. And they can be either CMOS digital or 
CMOS analog (the 307-073's are the only example I have some of) and even 
bipolar analog (one is a 723 voltage regulator - I don't remember its part 
no. because it wasn't in any shape to salvage, but I made a mental note of 
it, without too much lamenting because I have so many 723's: metals cans, 
ceramic DIP & plastic DIP...).

I have a few of each of the following: 307-073 (3130), 307-062 (4013), 
307-076 (4016), 307-146 (4518), 307-167 (4030) & I also recall there being 
They all came from the same piece of precision lab gear which I'm pretty 
sure was either a DMM or a quartz thermometer/slash frequency counter. I 
think it's the former because I remember the quartz thermometer I took apart 
had nixies each with their own driver boards and I have some MC14543's (but 
the displays were LED not LCD...) that I know came out of the same piece of 
gear as the 307-XXX stuff. It's funny that there were also CMOS parts with 
regular part numbers on them in their too. I guess that makes sense. Nobody 
makes gear with 100% of the chips from the same maker. But most of the RCA 
CMOS chips had the normal chip part designators on them instead of the wacky 
307-XXX "Dynascan" numbers.

A lot of parts start with 221-XXX. I have nine NOS LM3900's that have 
221-235 on them. I think I got them in Jim-Pak packs of 3. I probably 
wouldn't have bought them if I hadn't had an LM3900 that I scavanged from an 
old acoustic coupler modem (of all things - actually that modem yielded up 
lots of cool parts and I used the case to put two joystick controllers in to 
make a "Space Box" like Grant Richter's which is as of yet unfinished...). I 
have a few other random parts with no.'s that begin with 221- but I havn't 
found cross-refs. or NTE parts for them to compare.

Oh the things you collect when you've been tearing stuff apart for about 26 
years. Sometimes I have fits and no piece of electronics gear in the house 
is safe. I often end up putting a lot of it back together: like my Pioneer 
car CD/receiver, which sounded great in my Tercel and would have only given 
me a 4x35W chip amp (or was it 2x2X35W chips amps?) and I have plenty of 
chip amps that sound great. My Yamaha Natural Sound Tuner was only partially 
taken apart as I plan to use it as the PLL frequency source for a 
BA1404-based, 1 watt, FM stereo transmitter.

> On Thursday 01 May 2008 16:54, anthony wrote:
>> Hey this has cleared up a sticking point for me! Just try finding 3160's
>> anywhere. What about 3140's? They aren't that much different from 3130's
>> besides having different supply voltage limitations, right?
>
> They have a bipolar output stage,  if I'm remembering right...
>
>> What about using a mix of what you have? I have a number of NTE7144's (a
>> 3140) and RCA 307-073's
>
> Where'd _that_ number come from?
>
>
> -- 
> Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
> ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
> be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
> -
> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by 
> lies. --James
> M Dakin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From dlmanley at sonic.net  Sat May  3 00:03:10 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 15:03:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] linearizing a JFET used as voltage controlled resistor.
In-Reply-To: <200805022308.35997.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <481B5250.1070102@sonic.net> <200805022308.35997.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <481B8F9E.5020702@sonic.net>

ASSI wrote:
> On Freitag 02 Mai 2008, Dave Manley wrote:
>>
>> http://www.vishay.com/docs/70598/70598.pdf
> 
> Two comments: 
> 
> 1) The App note still beats around the bush with the principle of the 
> linearization.  What it should just have plainly said is that you need 
> to add V_DS/2 onto V_GS for obtaining the largest dynamic range.  With 
> this in mind you can sometimes find different ways to linearize the 
> JFET without mucking about with extra resistors.

That is a simpler way of stating it.

> 2) Figure 15 has the polarity of the control voltage reversed.

Also Figure 6 has two errors - the equation below the figure is 
incorrect (see equation (3) instead), and VGS is incorrectly labeled VGG.

Overall, the app note is a good reference for someone unfamiliar with 
the technique.

-Dave



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sat May  3 00:42:23 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 00:42:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] linearizing a JFET used as voltage controlled resistor.
In-Reply-To: <481B8F9E.5020702@sonic.net>
References: <481B5250.1070102@sonic.net> <200805022308.35997.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<481B8F9E.5020702@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <200805030042.23491.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Samstag 03 Mai 2008, Dave Manley wrote:
> > 1) The App note still beats around the bush with the principle of
> > the linearization.  What it should just have plainly said is that
> > you need to add V_DS/2 onto V_GS for obtaining the largest dynamic
> > range.  With this in mind you can sometimes find different ways to
> > linearize the JFET without mucking about with extra resistors.
>
> That is a simpler way of stating it.

Yes, it is so simple that some bozo clown in 2000 went to the patent 
office, described much the same in more complicated words and the 
examiners gave him US6,348,834 only two years later.  Never mind 
decades of prior art, numerous textbooks and obviousness...


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sat May  3 00:49:28 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 00:49:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Simple VCA?
In-Reply-To: <200804121318.37275.rtellason@verizon.net>
References: <200804121318.37275.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <200805030049.28972.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Samstag 12 April 2008, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
> It's a very simple circuit,  really.  An op amp inverting amplifier, 
> one resistor going from the non-inverting input to ground,  one input
> resistor, and one feedback resistor.  And,  a JFET connected between
> the two input terminals with the gate lead labeled as being the gain
> input.
>
> The caption for this reads "VOLTAGE-CONTROLLED GAIN -- 2N5457 FET
> acts as voltage-variable resistor between differential input terminals
> of opamp. Resistance variation is linear with voltage over several
> decades of resistance, to give excellent electronic gain control.
> Values of resistors depend on opamp used."  --"FET Databook",
> National Semiconductor, 1977, p. 6-26 -- 6-36.
>
> Comments on this?  Could that be done that simply?  Or what am I
> missing here?

Dave Manley linking to the Vishay app-note on JFET-VCR basics prompted 
me to revisit this circuit. (I hope I didn't goof up, it's been a long 
day...)

If this circuit works, then the V_DS of the JFET must be small 
and hence it presents a linear resistance which can be controlled by 
the Gate-Source voltage.  The resistance variation of the JFET is 
reciprocally linear with the negative CV because the drain current 
would be linear with -CV to first order (resitive region of the JFET), 
lowest resistance is with 0V at the gate and goes to (ideally) infinity 
when approaching the threshold voltage.  The circuit as drawn by Scott 
(thanks for the ASCII art) defies standard analysis because 
interpretation as either inverting or non-inverting amplifier leads 
astray.  But the operative word above is "between differential inputs" 
so I'd like to think of the circuit in this manner:

#                                 FB ?
# 
#                     +---------/\/\/\/---+
#             510R    |                   |
#                     |     |\            |
#  +IN/2 o--/\/\/\/---*-----|-\           |
#                     |     |  \          |
#                     |     |   \         |   
#                   |-+     |    \        |    OUT
#                   |       |     >-------*----->
#  -CV   o--------->|-+     |    /     
#                     |     |   /      
#                     |     |  /	      
#  -IN/2 o--/\/\/\/---*-----|+/	      
#                           |/  	      
#             510R     

It can now be seen that the (-) node must not be a virtual ground as it 
were in an inverting amplifier.  Let's for the moment ignore FB and 
pretend we have a bog standard differential amplifier.  The voltage 
developing across the differential inputs is indeed proportional to the 
negative CV - just insert the expression for the R_DS into the voltage 
divider equation.  It can indeed be controlled over several decades, 
three or four should be quite possible depending on the choice of V_DS, 
the lower the better.  By splitting the divider resistors this circuit 
also linearizes the JFET response by coupling V_DS/2 onto the gate if 
you reference the CV to GND.  The opamp should have zero offset and 
very low input current for this circuit to work well.

The original single-ended topology is restored by adding a common mode 
voltage of IN/2 to all inputs, which is rejected by the differential 
amp so the output is still single-ended.  The CV however now needs to 
be offset by IN/2, which is inconvenient, but maybe less so than 
symmetrizing the signal.  The JFET could be replaced by a MOSFET, but 
these would be noisier, have significantly smaller gm and the control 
law isn't as convenient as the CV needs to be offset by the threshold 
voltage (OK, in the single ended version it's just another offset to 
deal with).  In all cases the gain is quite temperature dependent and 
compensating for this would probably be too much trouble.  Also, no two 
JFETS are alike, so brace yourself for quite some parameter variation.

Now this feedback resistor still presents a real problem.  If it were 
connected as drawn, the circuit won't work and reverts to an inverting 
amplifier, nullifying any effect that the JFET might have had.  We 
would have to assume non-ideal behaviour of the op-amp, parasitic 
resitances somewhere in the circuit - or re-draw the circuit with a 
proper differential amp.

#                                                  R2
# 
#                                       +-------/\/\/\/---+
#             510R               R1     |                 |
#                                       |   |\            |
#  +IN   o--/\/\/\/---*---o---/\/\/\/---*---|-\           |
#                     |                     |  \          |
#                     |                     |   \         |   
#                   |-+                     |    \        |    OUT
#                   |                       |     >-------*----->
#  -CV   o--------->|-+                     |    /     
#  +IN/2              |                     |   /      
#                     |                     |  /	      
#   GND  o--/\/\/\/---*---o---/\/\/\/---*---|+/	      
#                                       |   |/  	      
#             510R               R1     |
#                                       |
#                    GND  o---/\/\/\/---+
#
#                                R2

The gain is now set by -R2/R1, the repetition of these at the positive 
input reduces drift by equalizing the input impedance.  With the proper 
choice of opamp you can maybe leave those two resistors out.  If 
however you get also rid of the 510R to ground, like Fig.12 in the 
Vishay/Siliconix AN105, you remove the JFET linearization - so don't do 
that.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf microQ V2.22R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada



From rtellason at verizon.net  Sat May  3 01:01:54 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 19:01:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buchla 259 timbre circuit and op amp compensation
In-Reply-To: <023401c8ac9e$2a852c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <24B9D726-7D6E-43F7-8443-4BAC5926B938@ece.gatech.edu>
	<200805011948.27189.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<023401c8ac9e$2a852c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <200805021901.55611.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Friday 02 May 2008 17:47, anthony wrote:
> Oh I forgot to say that that was the same thing as a 3130 I guess...

You mentioned that,  I just didn't quote it.

> RCA had a whole slew of part No.s that start with 307-. The NTE catalog
> designates these as "Dynascan" parts.

So those are Dynascan part numbers,  then.  They have a "catalog"?  I'm going 
to have to look into this.  I recall older cross-references that listed lots 
of numbers but never told you where they came from or who they belonged to...

> And they can be either CMOS digital or CMOS analog (the 307-073's are the
> only example I have some of) and even bipolar analog (one is a 723 voltage
> regulator - I don't remember its part no. because it wasn't in any shape to
> salvage, but I made a mental note of it, without too much lamenting because
> I have so many 723's: metals cans,  ceramic DIP & plastic DIP...).

It's not a part I find terribly useful these days,  though I did built a 
regulator around it back around 1971 or thereabouts,  before all these 
3-terminal devices became so commonly available.  It's handy for some things,  
like making a tracking dual regulator,  boosting current up to the level you 
want,  variable voltage over a pretty wide range,  etc. but I've not really 
seen much of a need for many of those things.

> I have a few of each of the following: 307-073 (3130), 307-062 (4013),
> 307-076 (4016), 307-146 (4518), 307-167 (4030) & I also recall there being
> They all came from the same piece of precision lab gear which I'm pretty
> sure was either a DMM or a quartz thermometer/slash frequency counter. I
> think it's the former because I remember the quartz thermometer I took
> apart had nixies each with their own driver boards and I have some
> MC14543's (but the displays were LED not LCD...) 

That's one sort of part I'm kinda short on these days,  and I have a bunch of 
displays...

> that I know came out of the same piece of gear as the 307-XXX stuff. It's
> funny that there were also CMOS parts with regular part numbers on them in
> their too. I guess that makes sense. Nobody makes gear with 100% of the
> chips from the same maker. But most of the RCA CMOS chips had the normal
> chip part designators on them instead of the wacky 307-XXX "Dynascan"
> numbers. 

Hm.  Where did you find this stuff?

> A lot of parts start with 221-XXX. I have nine NOS LM3900's that have
> 221-235 on them. I think I got them in Jim-Pak packs of 3. I probably
> wouldn't have bought them if I hadn't had an LM3900 that I scavanged from
> an old acoustic coupler modem (of all things - actually that modem yielded
> up lots of cool parts and I used the case to put two joystick controllers
> in to make a "Space Box" like Grant Richter's which is as of yet
> unfinished...). I have a few other random parts with no.'s that begin with
> 221- but I havn't found cross-refs. or NTE parts for them to compare.

Old modems do indeed yield lots of good parts.  I haven't torn apart any of 
mine yet,  but there were plenty of other ones (internals mostly) that gave 
up a bunch of useful stuff.  Those little transformers,  tiny speakers,  
typically an LM386 chip,  other stuff sometimes.

Never used an LM3900 here yet.

> Oh the things you collect when you've been tearing stuff apart for about 26
> years.

I've been at it a bit longer than that I think.

> Sometimes I have fits and no piece of electronics gear in the house 
> is safe.

I don't mess with stuff I use,  and I have plenty of stuff to scrap out,  
mostly.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From rtellason at verizon.net  Sat May  3 01:07:02 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 19:07:02 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Simple VCA?
In-Reply-To: <200805030049.28972.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <200804121318.37275.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<200805030049.28972.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <200805021907.02481.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Friday 02 May 2008 18:49, ASSI wrote:
> On Samstag 12 April 2008, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
> > It's a very simple circuit,  really.  An op amp inverting amplifier,
> > one resistor going from the non-inverting input to ground,  one input
> > resistor, and one feedback resistor.  And,  a JFET connected between
> > the two input terminals with the gate lead labeled as being the gain
> > input.
> >
> > The caption for this reads "VOLTAGE-CONTROLLED GAIN -- 2N5457 FET
> > acts as voltage-variable resistor between differential input terminals
> > of opamp. Resistance variation is linear with voltage over several
> > decades of resistance, to give excellent electronic gain control.
> > Values of resistors depend on opamp used."  --"FET Databook",
> > National Semiconductor, 1977, p. 6-26 -- 6-36.
> >
> > Comments on this?  Could that be done that simply?  Or what am I
> > missing here?
>
> Dave Manley linking to the Vishay app-note on JFET-VCR basics prompted
> me to revisit this circuit. (I hope I didn't goof up, it's been a long
> day...)
>
> If this circuit works, then the V_DS of the JFET must be small
> and hence it presents a linear resistance which can be controlled by
> the Gate-Source voltage.  The resistance variation of the JFET is
> reciprocally linear with the negative CV because the drain current
> would be linear with -CV to first order (resitive region of the JFET),
> lowest resistance is with 0V at the gate and goes to (ideally) infinity
> when approaching the threshold voltage.  The circuit as drawn by Scott
> (thanks for the ASCII art) defies standard analysis because
> interpretation as either inverting or non-inverting amplifier leads
> astray.  But the operative word above is "between differential inputs"
> so I'd like to think of the circuit in this manner:
>
> #                                 FB ?
> #
> #                     +---------/\/\/\/---+
> #             510R    |                   |
> #                     |     |\            |
> #  +IN/2 o--/\/\/\/---*-----|-\           |
> #                     |     |  \          |
> #                     |     |   \         |
> #                   |-+     |    \        |    OUT
> #                   |       |     >-------*----->
> #  -CV   o--------->|-+     |    /
> #                     |     |   /
> #                     |     |  /
> #  -IN/2 o--/\/\/\/---*-----|+/
> #                           |/
> #             510R

This circuit,  assuming that the -IN/2 input was grounded,  would be pretty 
much the one I was referring to when I started this thread.  :-)

> It can now be seen that the (-) node must not be a virtual ground as it
> were in an inverting amplifier.  Let's for the moment ignore FB and
> pretend we have a bog standard differential amplifier.  The voltage
> developing across the differential inputs is indeed proportional to the
> negative CV - just insert the expression for the R_DS into the voltage
> divider equation.  It can indeed be controlled over several decades,
> three or four should be quite possible depending on the choice of V_DS,
> the lower the better.  By splitting the divider resistors this circuit
> also linearizes the JFET response by coupling V_DS/2 onto the gate if
> you reference the CV to GND.  The opamp should have zero offset and
> very low input current for this circuit to work well.
>
> The original single-ended topology is restored by adding a common mode
> voltage of IN/2 to all inputs, which is rejected by the differential
> amp so the output is still single-ended.  The CV however now needs to
> be offset by IN/2, which is inconvenient, but maybe less so than
> symmetrizing the signal.  The JFET could be replaced by a MOSFET, but
> these would be noisier, have significantly smaller gm and the control
> law isn't as convenient as the CV needs to be offset by the threshold
> voltage (OK, in the single ended version it's just another offset to
> deal with).  In all cases the gain is quite temperature dependent and
> compensating for this would probably be too much trouble.  Also, no two
> JFETS are alike, so brace yourself for quite some parameter variation.
>
> Now this feedback resistor still presents a real problem.  If it were
> connected as drawn, the circuit won't work and reverts to an inverting
> amplifier, nullifying any effect that the JFET might have had.  We
> would have to assume non-ideal behaviour of the op-amp, parasitic
> resitances somewhere in the circuit - or re-draw the circuit with a
> proper differential amp.
>
> #                                                  R2
> #
> #                                       +-------/\/\/\/---+
> #             510R               R1     |                 |
> #                                       |   |\            |
> #  +IN   o--/\/\/\/---*---o---/\/\/\/---*---|-\           |
> #                     |                     |  \          |
> #                     |                     |   \         |
> #                   |-+                     |    \        |    OUT
> #                   |                       |     >-------*----->
> #  -CV   o--------->|-+                     |    /
> #  +IN/2              |                     |   /
> #                     |                     |  /
> #   GND  o--/\/\/\/---*---o---/\/\/\/---*---|+/
> #                                       |   |/
> #             510R               R1     |
> #                                       |
> #                    GND  o---/\/\/\/---+
> #
> #                                R2
>
> The gain is now set by -R2/R1, the repetition of these at the positive
> input reduces drift by equalizing the input impedance.  With the proper
> choice of opamp you can maybe leave those two resistors out.  If
> however you get also rid of the 510R to ground, like Fig.12 in the
> Vishay/Siliconix AN105, you remove the JFET linearization - so don't do
> that.

Still looks pretty simple to me.  What "proper choice of op amp" do you refer 
to here?  What needs to be optimized for that choice?

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sat May  3 09:33:11 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 09:33:11 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Simple VCA?
In-Reply-To: <200805021907.02481.rtellason@verizon.net>
References: <200804121318.37275.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<200805030049.28972.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<200805021907.02481.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <200805030933.11797.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Samstag 03 Mai 2008, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
> This circuit,  assuming that the -IN/2 input was grounded,  would be
> pretty much the one I was referring to when I started this thread. 
> :-)

Sure, the ASCII art is even clobbered (w/ slight modifications) from 
Scott's post.  The analysis of how it should work is different.  My 
first idea about that was wrong, which I realized when I saw the 
circuit.

> Still looks pretty simple to me.  What "proper choice of op amp" do
> you refer to here?  What needs to be optimized for that choice?

Low input current, low input current drift and low input current offset.  
But I don't think that two resistors would kill anybody and they remove 
this particular concern.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf rackAttack:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds



From debus at cityweb.de  Sat May  3 11:41:51 2008
From: debus at cityweb.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 11:41:51 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Simple VCA?
In-Reply-To: <200805030049.28972.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <200804121318.37275.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<200805030049.28972.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <67C52C84-3222-4C63-BF03-0AE05E67BF7B@cityweb.de>


Am 03.05.2008 um 00:49 schrieb ASSI:

>
> #                                 FB ?
> #
> #                     +---------/\/\/\/---+
> #             510R    |                   |
> #                     |     |\            |
> #  +IN/2 o--/\/\/\/---*-----|-\           |
> #                     |     |  \          |
> #                     |     |   \         |
> #                   |-+     |    \        |    OUT
> #                   |       |     >-------*----->
> #  -CV   o--------->|-+     |    /
> #                     |     |   /
> #                     |     |  /	
> #  -IN/2 o--/\/\/\/---*-----|+/	
> #                           |/  	
> #             510R
>
> It can now be seen that the (-) node must not be a virtual ground  
> as it
> were in an inverting amplifier.  Let's for the moment ignore FB and
> pretend we have a bog standard differential amplifier.  The voltage
> developing across the differential inputs is indeed proportional to  
> the
> negative CV - just insert the expression for the R_DS into the voltage
> divider equation.  It can indeed be controlled over several decades,
> three or four should be quite possible depending on the choice of  
> V_DS,
> the lower the better.  By splitting the divider resistors this circuit
> also linearizes the JFET response by coupling V_DS/2 onto the gate if
> you reference the CV to GND.  The opamp should have zero offset and
> very low input current for this circuit to work well.
>

But without the feedback resistor the opamp would be operated without  
any feedback at all. Are there any opamps out there (I mean opamps,  
not integrated differential amps with well-defined gain) that would  
work well with audio in this situation? I think offset and input  
current aren't the only problems here.

I still think the circuit that was posted by Roy here a while ago is  
based on a drawing error. Look at NatSemi's AN-32 (Aaron posted a  
link). There's a "Variable Attenuator", but with the FET in series  
with the input resistor. The circuit description uses almost the same  
words as the description Roy quoted. Perhaps this is the corrected  
version?

Ingo


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sat May  3 12:15:57 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 04:15:57 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] TC5514 polysix memory...upgrade?
Message-ID: <481C3B5D.90602@imt.net>

I have a ps6 that apparently has a dead one.  Can't store even when it's 
turned on.  All lines look like they are trying to do what is right.  
Not a bad board at all.  But someone had put a Li battery which is not a 
good idea of course.  But wouldn't think it would lead to dead memory 
but who knows maybe someone zapped it when they were installing the 
battery.

ANyway I was thinking it'd be cool to design even a simple daughter 
board that has leads for a switch that could be accessed somewhere 
non-intrusive that would give the ps6 more memory by switching a couple 
more address lines.  Does anyone know a compatible 4 bit data out chip 
that would pull this off with 16K or something? -Bob


From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sat May  3 18:02:03 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 18:02:03 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Simple VCA?
In-Reply-To: <67C52C84-3222-4C63-BF03-0AE05E67BF7B@cityweb.de>
References: <200804121318.37275.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<200805030049.28972.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<67C52C84-3222-4C63-BF03-0AE05E67BF7B@cityweb.de>
Message-ID: <200805031802.03702.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Samstag 03 Mai 2008, Ingo Debus wrote:
> I still think the circuit that was posted by Roy here a while ago is
> based on a drawing error.

So much is given, the question is "where and when?"  The fully 
differential circuit has so many advantageous aspects when compared 
with the other stuff floating around that I believe it does have it's 
roots in a real application.  Someone somehow probably had decided to 
draw it single-ended for the FET databook and didn't really understand 
how it was working, I guess.

> Look at NatSemi's AN-32 (Aaron posted a 
> link). There's a "Variable Attenuator", but with the FET in series
> with the input resistor. The circuit description uses almost the same
> words as the description Roy quoted. Perhaps this is the corrected
> version?

To quote the quote again:

> The caption for this reads "VOLTAGE-CONTROLLED GAIN -- 2N5457 FET
> acts as voltage-variable resistor between differential input terminals
> of opamp. Resistance variation is linear with voltage over several
> decades of resistance, to give excellent electronic gain control.
> Values of resistors depend on opamp used."  --"FET Databook",
> National Semiconductor, 1977, p. 6-26 -- 6-36.

AN-32 predates the FET databook by seven years and that circuit clearly 
does not provide a "voltage-variable resistor between differential 
input terminals of [the] opamp."  So I don't think these two are 
related.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptations for Waldorf Q V3.00R3 and Q+ V3.54R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada



From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Sat May  3 22:05:49 2008
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragon.servicing)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 21:05:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TC5514 polysix memory...upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <481C3B5D.90602@imt.net>
References: <481C3B5D.90602@imt.net>
Message-ID: <481CC59D.5050709@googlemail.com>

Hi,
just a quick idea but how about using an 8 bit chip, and then having 
some logic to switch  between the two sets of four data lines.
this would give you double the number of memories.
but of course there is probably a reason why this wouldn't work....

regards Peter

Bob Weigel wrote:
> I have a ps6 that apparently has a dead one.  Can't store even when it's 
> turned on.  All lines look like they are trying to do what is right.  
> Not a bad board at all.  But someone had put a Li battery which is not a 
> good idea of course.  But wouldn't think it would lead to dead memory 
> but who knows maybe someone zapped it when they were installing the 
> battery.
> 
> ANyway I was thinking it'd be cool to design even a simple daughter 
> board that has leads for a switch that could be accessed somewhere 
> non-intrusive that would give the ps6 more memory by switching a couple 
> more address lines.  Does anyone know a compatible 4 bit data out chip 
> that would pull this off with 16K or something? -Bob



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sat May  3 23:22:19 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 15:22:19 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] TC5514 polysix memory...upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <481CC59D.5050709@googlemail.com>
References: <481C3B5D.90602@imt.net> <481CC59D.5050709@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <481CD78B.3090300@imt.net>

The problem would be in storage.  Each time you do a memory write with 
an 8 bit data line you have to have 8 bits of something to read.  So you 
would just be contaiminating the 4 bits you aren't currently trying to 
address when you write since there are only 4 bits at a time available 
on the data buss..unless you do some intelligent buffer subsystem :-).  
READING it would work fine.   Of course it's just a lot of work since 
there are 4 bit chips out there that are already organized to allow me 
to simply switch a couple addy lines to access much more memory.  I just 
wanted to see if someone knew for sure whether the timing specs on the 
TC5514 and so on are equiv. to another chip with more address lines 
basically.  -Bob

dragon.servicing wrote:

> Hi,
> just a quick idea but how about using an 8 bit chip, and then having 
> some logic to switch  between the two sets of four data lines.
> this would give you double the number of memories.
> but of course there is probably a reason why this wouldn't work....
>
> regards Peter
>
> Bob Weigel wrote:
>
>> I have a ps6 that apparently has a dead one.  Can't store even when 
>> it's turned on.  All lines look like they are trying to do what is 
>> right.  Not a bad board at all.  But someone had put a Li battery 
>> which is not a good idea of course.  But wouldn't think it would lead 
>> to dead memory but who knows maybe someone zapped it when they were 
>> installing the battery.
>>
>> ANyway I was thinking it'd be cool to design even a simple daughter 
>> board that has leads for a switch that could be accessed somewhere 
>> non-intrusive that would give the ps6 more memory by switching a 
>> couple more address lines.  Does anyone know a compatible 4 bit data 
>> out chip that would pull this off with 16K or something? -Bob
>
>
>


From synth1 at airmail.net  Sun May  4 03:14:20 2008
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 20:14:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 10% off MOTM sale with *kits*
Message-ID: <009001c8ad84$2e4dfb50$b000a8c0@curley>

Until Wednesday midnight, I am running a 10% off MOTM module sale. This 
includes a run of kits (not the 510/850/890).

Unexpected medial expenses not covered by insurance (not me!) means I need 
to raise some $$$. I am starting the kitting up
Monday and figured, what the heck. While I'm counting 25,000 parts why not 
make it 50,000 :)

The sale is both for the listed kits and assembled modules.

The MOTM 2.0 stuff is regular price.

www.synthtech.com

Paul S.




From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun May  4 08:14:10 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 06:14:10 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] mn3207  BBD help??
In-Reply-To: <200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>


hello

i am having some real trouble getting my mn3207 to work. i have never worked with BBD's before and for some reason they just seem more complicated than any other synth project i have taken on. can anyone recommend a simple or simple enough to follow schematic that will use a MN32xx series chip?

or a good tutorial on the 32xx series? the datasheet i have is so thin!

thanks a lot






From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sun May  4 12:33:09 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 12:33:09 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] TC5514 polysix memory...upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <481C3B5D.90602@imt.net>
References: <481C3B5D.90602@imt.net>
Message-ID: <200805041233.10162.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Samstag 03 Mai 2008, Bob Weigel wrote:
> ANyway I was thinking it'd be cool to design even a simple daughter
> board that has leads for a switch that could be accessed somewhere
> non-intrusive that would give the ps6 more memory by switching a
> couple more address lines.  Does anyone know a compatible 4 bit data
> out chip that would pull this off with 16K or something? -Bob

I just had to look up in the schematics (thanks, oldcrow!) why you would 
absolutely need a 4bit SRAM.  Hilarious that they saved the second RAM 
and really just use the lower 4bit of the data bus...  Anyway, Cypress 
still makes 5V x4 SRAM, the 16kx4 part is the CY7C164/166.  However the 
lower-density parts have rather high active and standby power and I'd 
think about using a 64kx4 instead (CY7C194BN) even if you end up 
wasting some of it's capacity.  The data sheet doesn't say anything 
about a data retention mode, the only part where this is explicitly 
specified is the 256x4 CY7C1006.  Even then, the max. data retention 
current is specified at more than 1000x the current for the TC5514-APL.  
The typical values would likely be much lower, but it's something to 
check.  While you're at it, replace the NiCad with a lithium block and 
the D15 diode and the R91 resistor with a Schottky diode in antiserial 
arrangement.

The Simtek nvSRAM are also a strong consideration even though they're 
not available as x4: STK12C68 (8kx8) or STK14C88 (32kx8).  They store 
the SRAM content into a non-volatile shadow array on power down and 
recall the information on power up, so there is no need for a battery 
at all.  They'd be fast enough so you could rig a read-modify-write 
state machine with a GAL for stuffing two x4 nibbles into one x8 byte.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves



From don at till.com  Sun May  4 18:11:05 2008
From: don at till.com (Donald Tillman)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 09:11:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generators, beehiving and leakage
In-Reply-To: <002501c8ac89$b122bd00$f1db47d1@ca> (mirwin@marketbridge.ca)
References: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>	<200805021204.38240.rtellason@verizon.net><481B4D3F.4080706@sonic.net>
	<481B5C8D.1030207@googlemail.com> <002501c8ac89$b122bd00$f1db47d1@ca>
Message-ID: <m2tzheqcbq.fsf@till.com>

   > From: "Mike I" <mirwin at marketbridge.ca>
   > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 15:21:14 -0400
   > 
   > That old  ETI- Powertran String-thing article by Tim Orr makes some mention
   > of the beehiving problem.
   > 
   > Funny to see that   "Key Click" and "Leakage" have become virtues    :D

Well, yeah!  Making a musical instrument is the art of turning
imperfections into tools of personal expression.

I believe there's a fundamental difference between "beehiving" and
"leakage".  

Beehiving is when unplayed tone sources can be heard in the output;
any tones you hear with all the keys up.

Leakage is the sound of tonewheels seeping into the electromagnetic
pickups of their physically adjacent neighbors.  Laurens Hammond was
well aware of this effect, and addressed it by arranging the
tonewheels in fifths so that the leakage effect would be most musical.
Since fifths in the equal tempered scale are detuned from the 1.5
harmonic frequency, a side effect of leakage is a subtle chourussy
animation.  

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From don at till.com  Sun May  4 18:27:09 2008
From: don at till.com (Donald Tillman)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 09:27:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net> (message
	from Tom Wiltshire on Thu, 1 May 2008 22:47:07 +0100)
References: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <m2skwyqbky.fsf@till.com>

Two things to add to this discussion:

First off, I think it would be reasonable to improve on the tuning
accuracy of TOG chips.  There's a 2.4 cent relative inaccuracy between
the "D" and the "E" outputs, which is not so great.  I mean, after
thirty years of technological development, it would be good to show a
little improvement in that area.

Secondly, I would think about tossing the divide-by-N approach because
it will always have a musically unnatural synchronization.  

Looking to the Hammond Organ for inspiration (yet again!) note that
the gears in the Hammond are tuned in ratios, not a simple
divide-by-N.  Gear ratios give you much greater resolution with
smaller numbers and the synchronization takes on a very different
character.

So I would suggest a TOG design based on digital phase locked loops
running at frequency ratios of a common clock.  You could even add
variable phase slip.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sun May  4 20:35:46 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 20:35:46 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <m2skwyqbky.fsf@till.com>
References: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>
	<m2skwyqbky.fsf@till.com>
Message-ID: <200805042035.46741.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Sonntag 04 Mai 2008, Donald Tillman wrote:
> Looking to the Hammond Organ for inspiration (yet again!) note that
> the gears in the Hammond are tuned in ratios, not a simple
> divide-by-N.  Gear ratios give you much greater resolution with
> smaller numbers and the synchronization takes on a very different
> character.

This just means that they can all be produced by integer division from a 
sufficiently large number.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sun May  4 20:42:34 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 12:42:34 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] TC5514 polysix memory...upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <200805041233.10162.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <481C3B5D.90602@imt.net> <200805041233.10162.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <481E039A.50208@imt.net>

yeah they were a little skimpy on the memory.  Seems crazy that they 
didn't just make it 8 bit with twice the memory.  Chips were spendy back 
then but people would have dug the product way more if it had 64 instead 
of 32 patches too.

Anyway THANKS for the info there.  I haven't kept up on memory chips of 
late.  I tried to build an expansion for the MKS70 some years back and 
did what looked like the obvious things in the design but for some reason

1) You can always store a patch anywhere singly.  No problem.

2) If you try to bulk load patches to a section of the CY...whatever 
that chip was.. it will follow the same pattern of corruption every 
time.  It will consistently foul the same data the same way. The "A" 
bank of patches will load fine.  THen there is gradual degredation as 
the bulk dump continues of the data.  Really bizarre.

Anyway I laid it aside.  I had the thought that maybe I could use the 
cards in the MKS30.  I just built a board with a switch to select 16 
banks so when I get time some day I'll see if it works on those things. 
What a bummer waste of time that project was.



ASSI wrote:

>On Samstag 03 Mai 2008, Bob Weigel wrote:
>  
>
>>ANyway I was thinking it'd be cool to design even a simple daughter
>>board that has leads for a switch that could be accessed somewhere
>>non-intrusive that would give the ps6 more memory by switching a
>>couple more address lines.  Does anyone know a compatible 4 bit data
>>out chip that would pull this off with 16K or something? -Bob
>>    
>>
>
>I just had to look up in the schematics (thanks, oldcrow!) why you would 
>absolutely need a 4bit SRAM.  Hilarious that they saved the second RAM 
>and really just use the lower 4bit of the data bus...  Anyway, Cypress 
>still makes 5V x4 SRAM, the 16kx4 part is the CY7C164/166.  However the 
>lower-density parts have rather high active and standby power and I'd 
>think about using a 64kx4 instead (CY7C194BN) even if you end up 
>wasting some of it's capacity.  The data sheet doesn't say anything 
>about a data retention mode, the only part where this is explicitly 
>specified is the 256x4 CY7C1006.  Even then, the max. data retention 
>current is specified at more than 1000x the current for the TC5514-APL.  
>The typical values would likely be much lower, but it's something to 
>check.  While you're at it, replace the NiCad with a lithium block and 
>the D15 diode and the R91 resistor with a Schottky diode in antiserial 
>arrangement.
>
>The Simtek nvSRAM are also a strong consideration even though they're 
>not available as x4: STK12C68 (8kx8) or STK14C88 (32kx8).  They store 
>the SRAM content into a non-volatile shadow array on power down and 
>recall the information on power up, so there is no need for a battery 
>at all.  They'd be fast enough so you could rig a read-modify-write 
>state machine with a GAL for stuffing two x4 nibbles into one x8 byte.
>
>
>Achim.
>  
>


From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun May  4 21:29:02 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 20:29:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TC5514 polysix memory...upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <481E039A.50208@imt.net>
References: <481C3B5D.90602@imt.net> <200805041233.10162.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<481E039A.50208@imt.net>
Message-ID: <784B0E88-CC0A-4592-8B4B-81DFE88439AC@electricdruid.net>


On 4 May 2008, at 19:42, Bob Weigel wrote:

> yeah they were a little skimpy on the memory.  Seems crazy that  
> they didn't just make it 8 bit with twice the memory.  Chips were  
> spendy back then but people would have dug the product way more if  
> it had 64 instead of 32 patches too.

The use of 4-bit memory makes me wonder about the control resolution.  
It never seemed much good playing with the Polysix, and I know that  
on the Poly61 (where the resolution is explicit because of the  
digital display) it was really poor.
Am I to take it that the Polysix stores most parameters to 4-bit  
accuracy?

T.





From don at till.com  Sun May  4 23:48:51 2008
From: don at till.com (Donald Tillman)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 14:48:51 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generator (was Chinese MG-1s??!?)
In-Reply-To: <200805042035.46741.Stromeko@nexgo.de> (message from ASSI on Sun,
	4 May 2008 20:35:46 +0200)
References: <000101c8aba3$8eff63e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<A7D36F0C-7EFD-4C15-B293-FF420DA8C838@electricdruid.net>
	<m2skwyqbky.fsf@till.com> <200805042035.46741.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <m2r6chrb98.fsf@till.com>

   > From: ASSI <Stromeko at nexgo.de>
   > Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 20:35:46 +0200
   > 
   > On Sonntag 04 Mai 2008, Donald Tillman wrote:
   > > Looking to the Hammond Organ for inspiration (yet again!) note that
   > > the gears in the Hammond are tuned in ratios, not a simple
   > > divide-by-N.  Gear ratios give you much greater resolution with
   > > smaller numbers and the synchronization takes on a very different
   > > character.
   > 
   > This just means that they can all be produced by integer division from a 
   > sufficiently large number.

True, but how large a "sufficiently large number" are you thinking of?
:-)

Here are the Hammond gear ratios:

  Note    Ratio
  ---------------
   C    [ 85 104]
   C#   [ 71  82]
   D    [ 67  73]
   D#   [105 108]
   E    [103 100]
   F    [ 84  77]
   F#   [ 74  64]
   G    [ 98  80]
   G#   [ 96  74]
   A    [ 88  64]
   A#   [ 67  46]
   B    [108  70]

I'm thinking the least common multiple is 110,142,289,857,600 (!!!).

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Mon May  5 00:04:06 2008
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (Mike I)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 18:04:06 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Top Octave Generators, beehiving and leakage
References: <007d01c8abf0$6ebcd930$8501a8c0@ice9>	<200805021204.38240.rtellason@verizon.net><481B4D3F.4080706@sonic.net><481B5C8D.1030207@googlemail.com>
	<002501c8ac89$b122bd00$f1db47d1@ca> <m2tzheqcbq.fsf@till.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c8ae32$c6cd4bc0$94db47d1@ca>

Don - thanks for pointing out the difference between leakage and beehiving.
Neat workaround by Hammond.

Saw an old torn-apart transistor organ yesterday - keycontacts galore, and
very fine wirewrap wire ( 38 gauge or smaller - looked like yellow thread )
all over the keyboard assembly contact blocks.  If there was any shielded
cable, I didn't see it.

Thought it funny that Korg included a "Key Click" tab on the then-new Korg
Lambda stringer (also with organ sounds)..
M.



----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Tillman <don at till.com>
To: Mike I <mirwin at marketbridge.ca>
Cc: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Top Octave Generators, beehiving and leakage


>    > From: "Mike I" <mirwin at marketbridge.ca>
>    > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 15:21:14 -0400
>    >
>    > That old  ETI- Powertran String-thing article by Tim Orr makes some
mention
>    > of the beehiving problem.
>    >
>    > Funny to see that   "Key Click" and "Leakage" have become virtues
:D
>
> Well, yeah!  Making a musical instrument is the art of turning
> imperfections into tools of personal expression.
>
> I believe there's a fundamental difference between "beehiving" and
> "leakage".
>
> Beehiving is when unplayed tone sources can be heard in the output;
> any tones you hear with all the keys up.
>
> Leakage is the sound of tonewheels seeping into the electromagnetic
> pickups of their physically adjacent neighbors.  Laurens Hammond was
> well aware of this effect, and addressed it by arranging the
> tonewheels in fifths so that the leakage effect would be most musical.
> Since fifths in the equal tempered scale are detuned from the 1.5
> harmonic frequency, a side effect of leakage is a subtle chourussy
> animation.
>
>   -- Don
>
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California
> don at till.com
> http://www.till.com



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Mon May  5 00:16:27 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 16:16:27 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] TC5514 polysix memory...upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <784B0E88-CC0A-4592-8B4B-81DFE88439AC@electricdruid.net>
References: <481C3B5D.90602@imt.net> <200805041233.10162.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<481E039A.50208@imt.net>
	<784B0E88-CC0A-4592-8B4B-81DFE88439AC@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <481E35BB.30309@imt.net>

No it has an 8 bit dac as I recall.  They just did that on the memory 
for whatever reason.

Tom Wiltshire wrote:

>
> On 4 May 2008, at 19:42, Bob Weigel wrote:
>
>> yeah they were a little skimpy on the memory.  Seems crazy that  they 
>> didn't just make it 8 bit with twice the memory.  Chips were  spendy 
>> back then but people would have dug the product way more if  it had 
>> 64 instead of 32 patches too.
>
>
> The use of 4-bit memory makes me wonder about the control resolution.  
> It never seemed much good playing with the Polysix, and I know that  
> on the Poly61 (where the resolution is explicit because of the  
> digital display) it was really poor.
> Am I to take it that the Polysix stores most parameters to 4-bit  
> accuracy?
>
> T.
>
>
>
>


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon May  5 02:27:45 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 17:27:45 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] mn3207  BBD help??
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 06:14:10AM +0000, Dan Snazelle wrote:
> i am having some real trouble getting my mn3207 to work. i have never worked with BBD's before and for some reason they just seem more complicated than any other synth project i have taken on. can anyone recommend a simple or simple enough to follow schematic that will use a MN32xx series chip?
> 

Here is a fairly simple complete delay based around the BL3208/MN3208
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=80

There was a simpler one that I cant find that used 3 chips, I should have it
archived somewhere just cant find it.

The 3207 should also work in the same circuit, just with shorter delay time.
To just play around with BBDs and make it simpler, you could ditch the SA571
compander and just level convert in and out with opamps.  That would
simplify things a bit at the cost of some sound quality.

Also a while back I scanned in the entire Matsushita book ( thanks to Harry
"Closet BBD Fanatic" Bissell ) and it does have some more detailed circuits
that could be useful for you.

http://www.sdiy.org/BBDHell/

BBDs arnt hard to use, but they are pretty hard to use cleanly...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Mon May  5 03:15:50 2008
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 18:15:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Re: OT: RIP Edward Lorenz
In-Reply-To: <481C9EE0.6020408@nycap.rr.com>
Message-ID: <45663.11733.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

No worries. Hmm, the site seem to have gone off and
left... I actually downloaded the entire page (and it
is but a single web page) a long time ago, back when I
hadn't reliable internet, so I could post it on the
list when I get home.

Do post if you make something of it!


_Kyle


--- "George N. Weinisch" <gweinisc at nycap.rr.com>
wrote:

> 
> Hello Kyle,
> 
> Apologies for the intrusion.  I was just reading
> your post from a few 
> weeks back, and I see that the link you provided is
> no longer valid.  By 
> chance would you happen to have saved any of the
> information that was 
> contained on that site?
> 
> Thanks and best regards,
> 
> George
> 
> 
> 
> Kyle Stephens wrote:
> > In memoriam, one could build one of these:
> > 
> > http://www.schnozzle.org/~paulh/misc/lorenz.htm
> > 
> > Have the parts, haven't put one together myself
> yet...
> > 
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon May  5 05:32:54 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 23:32:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Re: OT: RIP Edward Lorenz
In-Reply-To: <45663.11733.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <45663.11733.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <871FFFC6-1DE5-47CD-B4AF-EC8A115C689E@ece.gatech.edu>

>> I see that the link you provided is no longer valid.  By  chance  
>> would you happen to have saved any of the information that was   
>> contained on that site?
>>
>>> In memoriam, one could build one of these:
>>>
>>> http://www.schnozzle.org/~paulh/misc/lorenz.htm

One of my students was looking for that, actually, and found this  
mirror (which is still up):

http://frank.harvard.edu/~paulh/misc/lorenz.htm

- Aaron


From mcbinc at panix.com  Mon May  5 06:02:42 2008
From: mcbinc at panix.com (mcb, inc.)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 00:02:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Re: OT: RIP Edward Lorenz
In-Reply-To: <871FFFC6-1DE5-47CD-B4AF-EC8A115C689E@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <45663.11733.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<871FFFC6-1DE5-47CD-B4AF-EC8A115C689E@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0805042356150.11774@panix1.panix.com>

On Sun, 4 May 2008, Aaron Lanterman wrote:

> One of my students was looking for that, actually, and found this mirror 
> (which is still up):
>
> http://frank.harvard.edu/~paulh/misc/lorenz.htm

And being Paul Horowitz' home page, will likely stay up.  Dig
around a bit and learn to pronounce 'Huygens' as well....

m

--
Monty Brandenberg, Software Engineer                               MCB, Inc.
mcbinc at panix.com                                             P.O. Box 426188
mcbinc at pobox.com                                   Cambridge, MA  02142-0021
617.864.6907


From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Mon May  5 20:23:27 2008
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 11:23:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Re: OT: RIP Edward Lorenz
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0805042356150.11774@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <843216.7854.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ah, there we go. Happy building.


--- "mcb, inc." <mcbinc at panix.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 4 May 2008, Aaron Lanterman wrote:
> 
> > One of my students was looking for that, actually,
> and found this mirror 
> > (which is still up):
> >
> > http://frank.harvard.edu/~paulh/misc/lorenz.htm
> 
> And being Paul Horowitz' home page, will likely stay
> up.  Dig
> around a bit and learn to pronounce 'Huygens' as
> well....
> 
> m
> 
> --
> Monty Brandenberg, Software Engineer                
>               MCB, Inc.
> mcbinc at panix.com                                    
>         P.O. Box 426188
> mcbinc at pobox.com                                  
> Cambridge, MA  02142-0021
> 617.864.6907
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From recompas at gmail.com  Mon May  5 21:14:16 2008
From: recompas at gmail.com (Travis Thatcher)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:14:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Moog MG1 repair help
Message-ID: <988b7c650805051214w195994c9mc375bf87156b9df0@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry if this email is redundant, I didn't realize I had richtext
formatting on, and couldn't post correctly.

Anyway, I have a problem with my Realistic (Moog) MG1 that I'm hoping
to repair myself.  I was working on the MG last evening, redoing the
filter input and lfo output mods I had completed a while ago, when I
accidentally sent some voltage into the 6th, output pin of U8, a
UA741CP.  The thing started smoking so I immediately shut it down.  I
replaced the op amp with an LM741 from radio shack (didn't have any
better ones laying around).  Now it seems the keytracking does not
work on the main synth section.  It works fine for the filter and the
poly section, but the main synth section just kind of plays one or two
notes, and the tune pot on the panel doesn't do much of anything
(though the tune trimmer on the board works fine).  Is the LM741CN not
a direct replacement or is there a much larger problem?  Admittedly
I'm a bit naive and still in the process of learning  as much as I can
about analog circuitry, so if any of this seems uninformed, I
apologize.

schematics are in section 35, at this URL:
http://www.theappreciationpost.com/mg1-servicemanual.htm

thanks!
-travis

-- 
http://www.judichicago.com
http://www.myspace.com/judichicago
http://www.recompas.com
http://voiceofsaturn.blogspot.com


From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Mon May  5 21:27:37 2008
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:27:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
Message-ID: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>

Hi list,
	I've been trying to establish the length of the sequence from a
particular 4006 shift register setup. It is used in the Doepfer A-117, which
is where I came across it; Ken Stone also uses it in his 'Digital Noise'
module:

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs31_digital_noise.html

and the earliest reference I've found to it so far is in a 1990 book by Ray
Marston, 'Integrated Circuit and Waveform Generator Handbook'.

At first I thought the inverter in the feedback (middle 4030 gate in Ken's
circuit above) would mean that the length of the sequence would be some what
less than 2^18-1. Then in attempting to translate the gates into polynomials
(if I've got it right) the inverting action seems to make the feedback
non-linear, and so the normal theory of LFSRs no longer applies. So I
'captured' a few bit sequences on my scope (the longest being 59 bits), and
ran it through the Berlekamp-Massey algorithm, which appears to say that the
length of the minimum *linear* feedback shift register which could generate
this sequence is actually 19 stages, i.e. one more than the 18 available in
the 4006! I'm hoping that this 'anomaly' *is* due to the non-linearity...

Has anyone done any analysis of this or similar circuits, i.e. with an
inverter in the feedback? Or if anyone steer me in the right direction, or
toward a decent analysis of this circuit, then I'd appreciate it. (I can't
find anything similar in Electronotes; not much seems to turn up in the
Synth DIY archives; but I note the EDP Wasp and Gnat use similar circuits,
but with a different arrangement of taps and inverter.)

Cheers,
	Tim

P.S. I have a copy of Golomb's 'Shift Register Sequences', but I'm kinda
hoping to get at least a semi-cogent sense of what is happening without
resorting to 3 months hard graft...
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk






From louis at dompselaar.org  Mon May  5 21:42:52 2008
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 21:42:52 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
References: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
Message-ID: <481F633C.8020605@dompselaar.org>

There's actually a 4006-based noise generator in the Transcendent 2000, 
which I think is from 1978.
The design itself is probably even older.

> and the earliest reference I've found to it so far is in a 1990 book by Ray
> Marston, 'Integrated Circuit and Waveform Generator Handbook'.
>   



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Mon May  5 22:39:59 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:39:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
References: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
Message-ID: <5A6A400D-E7F8-4C94-BB0E-BBD30679C606@ntlworld.com>

Tim,

Interesting circuit.

Looking at it briefly, a couple of comments:

1/ I think the start circuit is upside down - pin 13 of the 4030  
should start HIGH (giving you an inverter) to overcome the all-zeros  
startup state.  As is shown in the schematic at the start there is no  
inverter and so the all-zeros state is maintained.  Its only when the  
0u47 cap has charged up does it get out of the all-zeros state.

2/ Looking on the 'net for 18-stage maximal length tables I don't see  
anything that corresponds to this 3-tap design.  For maximal length  
there is a single 2-tap and many 4-tap choices (some of which can be  
implemented with the 4006), but nothing for 3-tap.

Of course, I may be wrong :)

Neil

On 5 May 2008, at 20:27, Tim Stinchcombe wrote:

> Hi list,
> 	I've been trying to establish the length of the sequence from a
> particular 4006 shift register setup. It is used in the Doepfer  
> A-117, which
> is where I came across it; Ken Stone also uses it in his 'Digital  
> Noise'
> module:
>
> http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs31_digital_noise.html
>
> and the earliest reference I've found to it so far is in a 1990  
> book by Ray
> Marston, 'Integrated Circuit and Waveform Generator Handbook'.
>
> At first I thought the inverter in the feedback (middle 4030 gate  
> in Ken's
> circuit above) would mean that the length of the sequence would be  
> some what
> less than 2^18-1. Then in attempting to translate the gates into  
> polynomials
> (if I've got it right) the inverting action seems to make the feedback
> non-linear, and so the normal theory of LFSRs no longer applies. So I
> 'captured' a few bit sequences on my scope (the longest being 59  
> bits), and
> ran it through the Berlekamp-Massey algorithm, which appears to say  
> that the
> length of the minimum *linear* feedback shift register which could  
> generate
> this sequence is actually 19 stages, i.e. one more than the 18  
> available in
> the 4006! I'm hoping that this 'anomaly' *is* due to the non- 
> linearity...
>
> Has anyone done any analysis of this or similar circuits, i.e. with an
> inverter in the feedback? Or if anyone steer me in the right  
> direction, or
> toward a decent analysis of this circuit, then I'd appreciate it.  
> (I can't
> find anything similar in Electronotes; not much seems to turn up in  
> the
> Synth DIY archives; but I note the EDP Wasp and Gnat use similar  
> circuits,
> but with a different arrangement of taps and inverter.)
>
> Cheers,
> 	Tim

--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk





From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Mon May  5 22:49:14 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 16:49:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
	<20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>

I just a got a nice HP Color LaserJet 2600n (for $299.99 on clearance) and 
one of the first uses to which I thought I thought to put it would be 
printing PCB layouts to the PnP Blue sheets that I got from Small Bear a 
little while ago. But then I looked at the paper pathway in this printer 
(which is otherwise awesome - I really like the way it lays on toner) and 
had 2nd thoughts on using it for this. Which is a drag because it's one of 
the primary reasons I bought it. I suppose if I tell it to print in gray 
scal it might bypass all those bends for each color besides black.

I thought about posting to a DIY stombox group first, but I fogured you guys 
have just as much experience with this sort of thing as anyone.

Another thing: what size drill bit would I get for the smallest typical part 
lead diameter to fit onto my Dremel press when I actually get around to 
etching a board and then need to drill it? I have a really small one in my 
Dremel kit, but I think it's probably still too huge.


Cheers,
Anthony 




From ebrombaugh at earthlink.net  Mon May  5 22:49:34 2008
From: ebrombaugh at earthlink.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 13:49:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
References: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
Message-ID: <481F72DE.3000109@earthlink.net>

Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
> Hi list,
> 	I've been trying to establish the length of the sequence from a
> particular 4006 shift register setup. It is used in the Doepfer A-117, which
> is where I came across it; Ken Stone also uses it in his 'Digital Noise'
> module:
> 
> http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs31_digital_noise.html
> 
> and the earliest reference I've found to it so far is in a 1990 book by Ray
> Marston, 'Integrated Circuit and Waveform Generator Handbook'.
> 
> At first I thought the inverter in the feedback (middle 4030 gate in Ken's
> circuit above) would mean that the length of the sequence would be some what
> less than 2^18-1. Then in attempting to translate the gates into polynomials
> (if I've got it right) the inverting action seems to make the feedback
> non-linear, and so the normal theory of LFSRs no longer applies. So I
> 'captured' a few bit sequences on my scope (the longest being 59 bits), and
> ran it through the Berlekamp-Massey algorithm, which appears to say that the
> length of the minimum *linear* feedback shift register which could generate
> this sequence is actually 19 stages, i.e. one more than the 18 available in
> the 4006! I'm hoping that this 'anomaly' *is* due to the non-linearity...
> 
> Has anyone done any analysis of this or similar circuits, i.e. with an
> inverter in the feedback? Or if anyone steer me in the right direction, or
> toward a decent analysis of this circuit, then I'd appreciate it. (I can't
> find anything similar in Electronotes; not much seems to turn up in the
> Synth DIY archives; but I note the EDP Wasp and Gnat use similar circuits,
> but with a different arrangement of taps and inverter.)
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Tim
> 
> P.S. I have a copy of Golomb's 'Shift Register Sequences', but I'm kinda
> hoping to get at least a semi-cogent sense of what is happening without
> resorting to 3 months hard graft...

Interesting little problem. I don't quite understand why the inversion 
in the feedback calculation would make the sequence non-linear (not even 
sure what non-linear means in this sense) - seems to me that it just 
gives you a different sequence. Looking through the circuit explanation 
on Ken's site it's obvious that it's just there to insert a transient 
into the register to get it going - the RC time constant is kind of like 
a reset pulse.

Not being much for theoretical approaches I cranked out a quick C 
program to measure the length of the sequence. After a few milliseconds 
of execution time it came up as 262140 - 4 less than 2^18.

Here's the C code:

#include <stdio.h>

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
	unsigned long sr, newbit;
	unsigned long cnt;
	
	cnt = 0;
	
	sr = 1;
	
	do
	{
		newbit = (sr >> 8) ^ ~((sr >> 4) ^ (sr >> 17));
		sr = (sr << 1) | (newbit & 1);
		cnt++;
	}
	while((sr & 0x3ffff) != 1);
	
	printf("Count = %d\n", cnt);
}

So it seems your initial instinct that the inversion just shortens the 
sequence was correct. Now if you want firm theoretical reason _why_ that 
is then you'll have to stick t' yer book larnin'. :)

Interestingly enough, removing the inversion shortens the sequence to 
2^17-2. Using different start/end criteria can lead to degenerate cases 
with shorter lengths as well. Odd...

Eric


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon May  5 23:11:57 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:11:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Moog MG1 repair help
In-Reply-To: <988b7c650805051214w195994c9mc375bf87156b9df0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <988b7c650805051214w195994c9mc375bf87156b9df0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A25F2053-654C-43C3-97E9-F0347A5DF981@ece.gatech.edu>

On May 5, 2008, at 3:14 PM, Travis Thatcher wrote:
>
> I was working on the MG last evening, redoing the filter input and  
> lfo output mods I had completed a while ago, when I accidentally  
> sent some voltage into the 6th, output pin of U8, a UA741CP.  The  
> thing started smoking so I immediately shut it down.  I replaced the  
> op amp with an LM741 from radio shack (didn't have any better ones  
> laying around).
[snip]
> Is the LM741CN not a direct replacement or is there a much larger  
> problem?  Admittedly I'm a bit naive and still in the process of  
> learning  as much as I can
> about analog circuitry, so if any of this seems uninformed, I  
> apologize.

I strongly suspect you toasted something else when you toasted the  
741...

Paul S., one of the co-designers of the MG-1 (now known for his MOTM  
line), is on the list.

- Aaron


From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Mon May  5 23:13:51 2008
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:13:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <5A6A400D-E7F8-4C94-BB0E-BBD30679C606@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <000501c8aef4$f028fb50$46a8f25a@stingo>

Hi Neil,

> 1/ I think the start circuit is upside down - pin 13 of the 4030  
> should start HIGH (giving you an inverter) to overcome the all-zeros  
> startup state.  As is shown in the schematic at the start 
> there is no  
> inverter and so the all-zeros state is maintained.  Its only 
> when the  
> 0u47 cap has charged up does it get out of the all-zeros state.

*Because* of the inverting action, I don't think the circuit needs any kind
of 'kickstart' - there is nothing like that in either the Doepfer module
(and it works all the same!) or the Marston book I mentioned. For all I know
it could well generate a de Bruijn sequence, in which the all 0 case *is*
allowed of cause...

> 2/ Looking on the 'net for 18-stage maximal length tables I 
> don't see  
> anything that corresponds to this 3-tap design.  For maximal length  
> there is a single 2-tap and many 4-tap choices (some of which can be  
> implemented with the 4006), but nothing for 3-tap.

...which is why I don't expect to see it in any kind of table for maximal
length sequences - I don't think it can possibly be one!

Cheers,
	Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk






From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon May  5 23:34:21 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:34:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Georgia Tech theremin
Message-ID: <0E93CC54-AD17-4058-9095-5FB8CF94B8A1@ece.gatech.edu>

My synth class piggybacks off of our senior design lab, so my students  
and I often see what the senior design teams are working on.

One of the senior design teams put together this gorgeous tube-based  
theremin (the blue LEDs under the tubes are just to look cool). I got  
to play it a for bit. It's probably the coolest senior design project  
I've ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZUk8hKIUjU

- Aaron


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Mon May  5 23:34:37 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 14:34:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
References: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
Message-ID: <481F7D6D.8070803@sonic.net>

Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
> Hi list,
> 	I've been trying to establish the length of the sequence from a
> particular 4006 shift register setup. It is used in the Doepfer A-117, which
> is where I came across it; Ken Stone also uses it in his 'Digital Noise'
> module:
> 
> http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs31_digital_noise.html
> 
> and the earliest reference I've found to it so far is in a 1990 book by Ray
> Marston, 'Integrated Circuit and Waveform Generator Handbook'.
> 
> At first I thought the inverter in the feedback (middle 4030 gate in Ken's
> circuit above) would mean that the length of the sequence would be some what
> less than 2^18-1. Then in attempting to translate the gates into polynomials
> (if I've got it right) the inverting action seems to make the feedback
> non-linear, and so the normal theory of LFSRs no longer applies. So I
> 'captured' a few bit sequences on my scope (the longest being 59 bits), and
> ran it through the Berlekamp-Massey algorithm, which appears to say that the
> length of the minimum *linear* feedback shift register which could generate
> this sequence is actually 19 stages, i.e. one more than the 18 available in
> the 4006! I'm hoping that this 'anomaly' *is* due to the non-linearity...
> 
> Has anyone done any analysis of this or similar circuits, i.e. with an
> inverter in the feedback? Or if anyone steer me in the right direction, or
> toward a decent analysis of this circuit, then I'd appreciate it. (I can't
> find anything similar in Electronotes; not much seems to turn up in the
> Synth DIY archives; but I note the EDP Wasp and Gnat use similar circuits,
> but with a different arrangement of taps and inverter.)
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Tim
> 
> P.S. I have a copy of Golomb's 'Shift Register Sequences', but I'm kinda
> hoping to get at least a semi-cogent sense of what is happening without
> resorting to 3 months hard graft...
> __________________________________________________________
> Tim Stinchcombe 

Hi Tim,

I simulated this in verilog and found the length is 262140, which is 
three less than what would be expected for a maximal length polynomial.

The inversion doesn't cause a problem, the feedback on an LFSR can be 
inverted or not.  Whether you invert or not determines the one illegal 
state for a maximal length polynomial.  In the case of xor feedback the 
illegal state is when the shift register is filled with 0's, since 0 xor 
0 is 0, and the state will never change. The is why the maximal length 
is 2^n - 1, the -1 is for the illegal state.

In the circuit as shown the feedback is:

	din = ~(d13 ^ d0) ^ d9.

This is the same as ~(d13 ^ d9 ^d0), which is just an xnor.

~(a^b)^c = ~(a^b^c)

Where d17 is the din flop, and d0 is the last flop.

This feedback doesn't correspond to any of the maximal length
polynomials give here: http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/lfsr/18.txt
(I'm assuming their tables are correct).  Of course, there are many 
feedback tap arrangements which don't give maximal length and this is 
one of them.

-Dave

P.S. The reset circuit of the resistor and cap is unreliable if power is 
cycled quickly, there really should be a diode across the resistor to 
discharge the cap when the power is turned off.





From dlmanley at sonic.net  Tue May  6 00:58:49 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 15:58:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <481F72DE.3000109@earthlink.net>
References: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
	<481F72DE.3000109@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <481F9129.8010908@sonic.net>

Eric Brombaugh wrote:

> Interestingly enough, removing the inversion shortens the sequence to 
> 2^17-2. Using different start/end criteria can lead to degenerate cases 
> with shorter lengths as well. Odd...

Not so odd really.  Using this:

	http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/lfsr/index.html

as a reference, there are only 7776 taps arrangements that are maximal 
length.  All the rest are going to have a number of degenerate sequences.

To get a feel for this simulate a shorter polynomial, like a 4-bit or 
5-bit, you can exhaustively try all the feedback tap combinations and 
see all the possible sequences.

And besides, it's good enough for synth-diy!

And...at least it doesn't go chuff, chuff, chuff.

:-)

-Dave



From theatomlabspt at gmail.com  Tue May  6 01:04:22 2008
From: theatomlabspt at gmail.com (The Atomlabs PT)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 00:04:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl><20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <000e01c8af04$5c9863c0$0201a8c0@atomlabs>

Hi Anthony!

The process of the p&p sheets is toner transfer. If you configure the laser 
printer for printing in black only you should get some good results. I have 
a HP4P (50? with full original toner in a clearence) and i've got good 
results. I can get tracks as thin as 0.3mm. I've used a color laser printer 
(a OKI) and using the black toner only i could get the same results. About 
the drills, i use 0.8mm drill for all holes. It fits well in the dremmel and 
is good enought for almost all components.

good luck :)

Heitor
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "anthony" <aankrom at bluemarble.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:49 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?


>I just a got a nice HP Color LaserJet 2600n (for $299.99 on clearance) and 
>one of the first uses to which I thought I thought to put it would be 
>printing PCB layouts to the PnP Blue sheets that I got from Small Bear a 
>little while ago. But then I looked at the paper pathway in this printer 
>(which is otherwise awesome - I really like the way it lays on toner) and 
>had 2nd thoughts on using it for this. Which is a drag because it's one of 
>the primary reasons I bought it. I suppose if I tell it to print in gray 
>scal it might bypass all those bends for each color besides black.
>
> I thought about posting to a DIY stombox group first, but I fogured you 
> guys have just as much experience with this sort of thing as anyone.
>
> Another thing: what size drill bit would I get for the smallest typical 
> part lead diameter to fit onto my Dremel press when I actually get around 
> to etching a board and then need to drill it? I have a really small one in 
> my Dremel kit, but I think it's probably still too huge.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Anthony
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From speedghost at btinternet.com  Tue May  6 01:32:24 2008
From: speedghost at btinternet.com (Adam Fothergill)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 00:32:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
	<20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <74DBC974-3963-4003-8CF4-4BCA0216DCFA@btinternet.com>

I'd like to know how you get on with PnP,   not tried it myself but I  
have a 2600n also and it doesn't play too nice with lazertran ( I  
found the expensive way) and several over plastic like papers I was  
trying for panels. The 2600n is of one of the newer breeds of lasers  
with much higher bonding temperature, so would be handy to know if  
PnP works ok.

Hopefully I can pick up a cheap old mono laser someday for  
lazertran,  In the meantime Im eager to learn a bit of screen  
printing for panel work.
Seems plenty of useful tutorial videos on you-tube for that btw..

On 5 May 2008, at 21:49, anthony wrote:

> I just a got a nice HP Color LaserJet 2600n (for $299.99 on  
> clearance) and one of the first uses to which I thought I thought  
> to put it would be printing PCB layouts to the PnP Blue sheets that  
> I got from Small Bear a little while ago. But then I looked at the  
> paper pathway in this printer (which is otherwise awesome - I  
> really like the way it lays on toner) and had 2nd thoughts on using  
> it for this. Which is a drag because it's one of the primary  
> reasons I bought it. I suppose if I tell it to print in gray scal  
> it might bypass all those bends for each color besides black.
>
> I thought about posting to a DIY stombox group first, but I fogured  
> you guys have just as much experience with this sort of thing as  
> anyone.
>
> Another thing: what size drill bit would I get for the smallest  
> typical part lead diameter to fit onto my Dremel press when I  
> actually get around to etching a board and then need to drill it? I  
> have a really small one in my Dremel kit, but I think it's probably  
> still too huge.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Anthony
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Tue May  6 03:22:03 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:22:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl><20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org><000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<74DBC974-3963-4003-8CF4-4BCA0216DCFA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <001501c8af17$9995d060$0202a8c0@positronium>

I guess if it doesn't work, I can ake printouts of what I need and run the 
PnP through a copier at Kino's. Those machines tend to have a fairly 
straight paper pathway.

What did you have to repair when you used Lazertran?

aa



> I'd like to know how you get on with PnP,   not tried it myself but I 
> have a 2600n also and it doesn't play too nice with lazertran ( I  found 
> the expensive way) and several over plastic like papers I was  trying for 
> panels. The 2600n is of one of the newer breeds of lasers  with much 
> higher bonding temperature, so would be handy to know if  PnP works ok.
>
> Hopefully I can pick up a cheap old mono laser someday for  lazertran,  In 
> the meantime Im eager to learn a bit of screen  printing for panel work.
> Seems plenty of useful tutorial videos on you-tube for that btw..
>
> On 5 May 2008, at 21:49, anthony wrote:
>
>> I just a got a nice HP Color LaserJet 2600n (for $299.99 on  clearance) 
>> and one of the first uses to which I thought I thought  to put it would 
>> be printing PCB layouts to the PnP Blue sheets that  I got from Small 
>> Bear a little while ago. But then I looked at the  paper pathway in this 
>> printer (which is otherwise awesome - I  really like the way it lays on 
>> toner) and had 2nd thoughts on using  it for this. Which is a drag 
>> because it's one of the primary  reasons I bought it. I suppose if I tell 
>> it to print in gray scal  it might bypass all those bends for each color 
>> besides black.
>>
>> I thought about posting to a DIY stombox group first, but I fogured  you 
>> guys have just as much experience with this sort of thing as  anyone.
>>
>> Another thing: what size drill bit would I get for the smallest  typical 
>> part lead diameter to fit onto my Dremel press when I  actually get 
>> around to etching a board and then need to drill it? I  have a really 
>> small one in my Dremel kit, but I think it's probably  still too huge.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Anthony
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Tue May  6 03:36:39 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 21:36:39 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] mn3207  BBD help??
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
	<20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <002001c8af19$a32e8fc0$0202a8c0@positronium>

> BBDs arnt hard to use, but they are pretty hard to use cleanly...

I dunno... I made a chorus pedal based on tonepad.com's Small Clone clone 
(get it? I called mine The Small Clown...) that worked perfectly and 
noiselessly the first time I fired it up. And this was on a solder 
protoboard from Radio Shack.

On the other hand I tried something like 3 times to make John Hollis' 
Ultraflanger and I could never get it to work properly and it was a simpler 
circuit.

I'm wondering what kind of circuit the original poster wnats to make: 
flanger or chorus or something else? You could looks at factory schematics 
from commercial products and oick out one that looks reasonably simple for 
you. The Boss BF2 Flanger and the Ibanez BC10 come to mind as pedals that 
use MN3207's. The latter's design is a little more complex but for good 
reasons. There is an MN3207 version of John Hollis' Zombie Chorus too - 
which is pretty simple and a pretty popular circuit.

aa 




From blincoln at eventualdecline.com  Tue May  6 04:30:53 2008
From: blincoln at eventualdecline.com (Ben Lincoln)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 19:30:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c8af04$5c9863c0$0201a8c0@atomlabs>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl><20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>	<000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<000e01c8af04$5c9863c0$0201a8c0@atomlabs>
Message-ID: <481FC2DD.3020109@eventualdecline.com>

I believe the bit size to get in the US is 1/32" - at least, that's what 
I've been using. It's best to order them online. I've seen three-packs 
for relatively cheap (supposedly they break fairly often, but I've been 
lucky so far with the three little boards I've made). Big hardware 
stores like Home Depot and Lowes will occasionally have 1/32" Dremel 
bits in a pack with 3-4 others, but this is a much more expensive 
option. You may also need to get a 1/32" collet. My knockoff "rotary 
tool" only came with collets down to 1/16". Maybe the real deal is more 
complete?

The Atomlabs PT wrote:
> Hi Anthony!
>
> The process of the p&p sheets is toner transfer. If you configure the 
> laser printer for printing in black only you should get some good 
> results. I have a HP4P (50? with full original toner in a clearence) 
> and i've got good results. I can get tracks as thin as 0.3mm. I've 
> used a color laser printer (a OKI) and using the black toner only i 
> could get the same results. About the drills, i use 0.8mm drill for 
> all holes. It fits well in the dremmel and is good enought for almost 
> all components.
>
> good luck :)
>
> Heitor
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "anthony" <aankrom at bluemarble.net>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:49 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
>
>
>> I just a got a nice HP Color LaserJet 2600n (for $299.99 on 
>> clearance) and one of the first uses to which I thought I thought to 
>> put it would be printing PCB layouts to the PnP Blue sheets that I 
>> got from Small Bear a little while ago. But then I looked at the 
>> paper pathway in this printer (which is otherwise awesome - I really 
>> like the way it lays on toner) and had 2nd thoughts on using it for 
>> this. Which is a drag because it's one of the primary reasons I 
>> bought it. I suppose if I tell it to print in gray scal it might 
>> bypass all those bends for each color besides black.
>>
>> I thought about posting to a DIY stombox group first, but I fogured 
>> you guys have just as much experience with this sort of thing as anyone.
>>
>> Another thing: what size drill bit would I get for the smallest 
>> typical part lead diameter to fit onto my Dremel press when I 
>> actually get around to etching a board and then need to drill it? I 
>> have a really small one in my Dremel kit, but I think it's probably 
>> still too huge.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Anthony
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue May  6 06:10:02 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 04:10:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] mn3207  BBD help??
In-Reply-To: <002001c8af19$a32e8fc0$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
	<20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<002001c8af19$a32e8fc0$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W58EFE9D81735EC7AA23B1C8D60@phx.gbl>




well it doesn't really matter what kind of circuit...chorus or flanger, and when my 3205's arrive, i suppose delay!
i've got a scope on the way (finally) and i think this might make troubleshooting bbd circuits a bit easier for me.

thanks everybody




From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Tue May  6 07:33:32 2008
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 06:33:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <481F633C.8020605@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <000501c8af3a$be2c2ff0$3721883e@stingo>

Yep, that is the same circuit. Unfortunately just the usual hand-waving
explanation, and no reference to anything meatier.

I hope to respond to the other v. useful replies later tonight, after
work...

Tim

> There's actually a 4006-based noise generator in the 
> Transcendent 2000, 
> which I think is from 1978.
> The design itself is probably even older.
> 
> > and the earliest reference I've found to it so far is in a 
> 1990 book 
> > by Ray Marston, 'Integrated Circuit and Waveform Generator 
> Handbook'.





From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Tue May  6 08:39:12 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:39:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Eagle PCB v5 is out
Message-ID: <20080506063912.GU59657@moo.sysabend.org>

Eagle v5 is out.  For us Mac users, its now Native Aqua ( no longer X11 ).

Just in time for my new MacPro...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Tue May  6 10:42:22 2008
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:42:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <48201475.1f205e0a.08ce.3336@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <OFFD88017F.67472695-ONC1257441.002EE455-C1257441.00309D7B@jeppesen.com>

synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 05/06/2008 11:18:58 AM:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: anthony [aankrom at bluemarble.net]
> Received: 05.05.2008 21:03:19
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
> 
> > Another thing: what size drill bit would I get for the smallest 
> typical part 
> lead diameter to fit onto my Dremel press when I actually get around to 
> etching a board and then need to drill it? I have a really small one in 
my 
> Dremel kit, but I think it's probably still too huge.
> 
> 
> Not sure what it translates to in US/inch-based sizes but I use 0.
> 5mm and 0.8mm bits.

yep, and probably 1mm for sockets and connectors. it can be so annoying if 
you almost populated a board, and then you have to drill again... however 
i'd checked the datasheet for the width of mounting holes of certain 
components.

> 
> I've heard that on standard epoxy PCBs they can break quite often - 
> but on SRBP-based boards you'll get a good life out of the bits (and
> you don't need to track down expensive carbide ones) as long as 
> they're mounted straight and you use the highest speed the Dremel is
> capable of.

i am using the cheapest bits i can find. one bit is good for one eurocard 
PCB.
i shoot from the hip, with a little bit of practice no press is needed.

cheers,
matthias
___
www.fonitronik.de


From juzowen at googlemail.com  Tue May  6 11:18:58 2008
From: juzowen at googlemail.com (Justin Owen)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:18:58 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
Message-ID: <48201475.1f205e0a.08ce.3336@mx.google.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: anthony [aankrom at bluemarble.net]
Received: 05.05.2008 21:03:19
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?

> Another thing: what size drill bit would I get for the smallest typical part 
lead diameter to fit onto my Dremel press when I actually get around to 
etching a board and then need to drill it? I have a really small one in my 
Dremel kit, but I think it's probably still too huge.


Not sure what it translates to in US/inch-based sizes but I use 0.5mm and 0.8mm bits.

I've heard that on standard epoxy PCBs they can break quite often - but on SRBP-based boards you'll get a good life out of the bits (and you don't need to track down expensive carbide ones) as long as they're mounted straight and you use the highest speed the Dremel is capable of.

You might also want to look at getting a 'multi-chuck' - which will let you fit bits from about 0.5mm up to about 3.2mm.

J





From buchi at allnet.de  Tue May  6 11:53:45 2008
From: buchi at allnet.de (Michael Buchstaller)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 11:53:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Eagle PCB v5 is out
In-Reply-To: <20080506063912.GU59657@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20080506063912.GU59657@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <bga024p5tv0se5076jssc0o6nbspkpm8tr@4ax.com>


>Eagle v5 is out.  For us Mac users, its now Native Aqua ( no longer X11 ).

The best thing: the user language seems to be downward compatible, so
Eagle 3D script f?r 4.11 does work with some projects upgraded to V5.
(i did a large amount of work in creating 3D models for my special
parts at work, and would have been annoyed if i would have to wait for
Eagle3D to be adapted to a changed user language)

-Michael
(using it on WinXP)



From alvitar at xavax.com  Tue May  6 13:31:51 2008
From: alvitar at xavax.com (Phillip Harbison)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 06:31:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <000501c8aef4$f028fb50$46a8f25a@stingo>
References: <000501c8aef4$f028fb50$46a8f25a@stingo>
Message-ID: <482041A7.9070100@xavax.com>

Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
> *Because* of the inverting action, I don't think the circuit
> needs any kind of 'kickstart' - there is nothing like that in
> either the Doepfer module (and it works all the same!)

The purpose of the RC network and extra XOR gate might be to
force the sequence into a predictable starting state; however,
if that is the intent then the RC network should be buffered
by a Schmidt trigger to achieve a reliable result. On second
thought, perhaps the designer wanted the input to that XOR to
be unpredictable making the startup state random. In either
case, a diode in parallel with the 1M resistor is a good idea.
I've used these shift registers but only to calculate CRCs on
data packets and in rare cases as a digital delay line.

-- 
Phil Harbison



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Tue May  6 14:54:59 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 07:54:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <481FC2DD.3020109@eventualdecline.com>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl><20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>	<000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<000e01c8af04$5c9863c0$0201a8c0@atomlabs>
	<481FC2DD.3020109@eventualdecline.com>
Message-ID: <20080506125346.M59036@wowway.com>

I like to use #60 (.040") drills for almost all
1/4W and DIP packages.  I use #55 (.052") for the
larger components

H^) harry


From speedghost at btinternet.com  Tue May  6 15:38:11 2008
From: speedghost at btinternet.com (Adam Fothergill)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 14:38:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <001501c8af17$9995d060$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl><20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org><000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<74DBC974-3963-4003-8CF4-4BCA0216DCFA@btinternet.com>
	<001501c8af17$9995d060$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <F12A454A-0FC1-4A7C-8D16-C454F2BD55B2@btinternet.com>

oh nothing serious, other than the expense of how much several  
mangled sheets of lazertran sets you back while try to get it to work.
In the end all it did for me was nasty paper jams, involving a lot of  
work to peel out the melted sheets.  This was from me trying several  
of the custom card stock settings and through the front feeder tray  
which apparently goes through a different path.

A few weeks after my expensive experiment, I happened to hear a  
rumour they'd changed lazertran slightly to cope with the new  
temperatures,  nothing on their site though. Perhaps I'll give them a  
ring at some point and find out.


On 6 May 2008, at 02:22, anthony wrote:

> I guess if it doesn't work, I can ake printouts of what I need and  
> run the PnP through a copier at Kino's. Those machines tend to have  
> a fairly straight paper pathway.
>
> What did you have to repair when you used Lazertran?
>
> aa
>
>
>
>> I'd like to know how you get on with PnP,   not tried it myself  
>> but I have a 2600n also and it doesn't play too nice with  
>> lazertran ( I  found the expensive way) and several over plastic  
>> like papers I was  trying for panels. The 2600n is of one of the  
>> newer breeds of lasers  with much higher bonding temperature, so  
>> would be handy to know if  PnP works ok.
>>
>> Hopefully I can pick up a cheap old mono laser someday for   
>> lazertran,  In the meantime Im eager to learn a bit of screen   
>> printing for panel work.
>> Seems plenty of useful tutorial videos on you-tube for that btw..
>>
>>


From 23isgood at gmail.com  Tue May  6 17:16:33 2008
From: 23isgood at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:16:33 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for these parts
Message-ID: <dc5946590805060816qceb3491v336ceed3b83a0327@mail.gmail.com>

Im trying to repair an sh-1, and I need these parts. Can someone
direct me to where I can find these?

2SA826-Q - PNP Transistor
2SC1740-Q - NPN Transistor
2SK30A-GR - J-FET N-channel

1s2473 diodes

thanks,
pete




-- 
http://www.myspace.com/23isgood


From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Tue May  6 17:30:25 2008
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:30:25 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
	<20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80805060830g3fa97474m696cb980c8396c3d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

On 5/5/08, anthony <aankrom at bluemarble.net> wrote:
>
>  Another thing: what size drill bit would I get for the smallest typical
> part lead diameter to fit onto my Dremel press when I actually get around to
> etching a board and then need to drill it? I have a really small one in my
> Dremel kit, but I think it's probably still too huge.
>

I *knew* people would have different preferences ;) I like using 0,6mm
bit for ICs, 1/4" resistors, signal diodes, small caps ect. tight, but
not too tight fit. But this drill bit size also fits my "normal"
electric hand drill, which I use with drill press attachment adjusted
for few mm action, so drill bit just flies over the pcb.

After few carefully drilled holes, it really speeds up the process as
You learn to be confident on visual inspection that the drill bit is
really "spot on".

Samppa

p.s. Users of the PCL capable HPs may find this piece of software
useful: http://www.victechsoftware.com/ljconfig.html


From blincoln at eventualdecline.com  Tue May  6 18:02:13 2008
From: blincoln at eventualdecline.com (Ben Lincoln)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80805060830g3fa97474m696cb980c8396c3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
	<20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<fa1b0bd80805060830g3fa97474m696cb980c8396c3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40103.38.112.225.84.1210089733.squirrel@www.eventualdecline.com>

I've been doing mine freehand with my dremel-clone because I don't have an
X-Y table for my drill press (yet). Is an X-Y table what people typically
use, or are you all actually clamping and unclamping your boards for every
hole?

On Tue, May 6, 2008 8:30 am, Samppa Tolvanen said:

> After few carefully drilled holes, it really speeds up the process as
> You learn to be confident on visual inspection that the drill bit is
> really "spot on".




From rdrake at data2action.com  Tue May  6 18:33:48 2008
From: rdrake at data2action.com (rdrake)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 12:33:48 -0400
Subject: =?US-ASCII?B?UmU6IFtzZGl5XSBQcmVzcy1OLVBlZWwgQmx1ZWUgYW5kIGNvbG9yIGxhc2VyIHByaW50ZXJTPw==?=
Message-ID: <20080506163348.94456.qmail@mmm1113.verio-web.com>

i use my dremell in a stand--abt $40 stateside, and worth it.  i also use carbide drill bits, since steel gets unusably dull after about a dozen holes in fiberglass.  you can find them surplus pretty easy.  they are brittle, tho and will shatter w/ any lateral stress, so a press (and googles!) are essential.

bbob
www.fluxmonkey.com

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: blincoln at eventualdecline.com
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 -0700 (PDT) 09:02:13
>
>I've been doing mine freehand with my dremel-clone
>because I don't have an
>X-Y table for my drill press (yet). Is an X-Y table
>what people typically
>use, or are you all actually clamping and
>unclamping your boards for every
>hole?
>
>On Tue, May 6, 2008 8:30 am, Samppa Tolvanen said:
>
>> After few carefully drilled holes, it really
>speeds up the process as
>> You learn to be confident on visual inspection
>that the drill bit is
>> really "spot on".
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Tue May  6 18:36:17 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:36:17 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <40103.38.112.225.84.1210089733.squirrel@www.eventualdecline.com>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
	<20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<fa1b0bd80805060830g3fa97474m696cb980c8396c3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<40103.38.112.225.84.1210089733.squirrel@www.eventualdecline.com>
Message-ID: <20080506163617.GV59657@moo.sysabend.org>

On Tue, May 06, 2008 at 09:02:13AM -0700, Ben Lincoln wrote:
> I've been doing mine freehand with my dremel-clone because I don't have an
> X-Y table for my drill press (yet). Is an X-Y table what people typically
> use, or are you all actually clamping and unclamping your boards for every
> hole?

Clamping the pcb while drilling?  No.  I never have.  I wear hearing
protection and eye protection and just place the board by hand.  I've done
this, sadly, for hundreds of boards in a single session.  In a past job we
had eurocrates full of slightly different boards so it didn't make sense to
try and do fab runs of them, all of them were made by hand and all had to be
drilled by hand.

One thing that helps a lot is sitting at the right level.  Typically the
table will be too high so you are looking down past the drill, closer to
face level seems to work better for alignment.  Also another trick is mount
your dremel ( or other highspeed drill ) near the edge of your bench so the
handle overhangs, this way you can rig up a foot pedal to depress the drill
so you can use both hands for alignment.  Its not that hard to rig up.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From czvekan at gmail.com  Tue May  6 19:13:21 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 19:13:21 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Sorry for direct mail answer to Pete
Message-ID: <36ED1454-5A9A-4C2F-9C48-288C4F978A92@gmail.com>

Sorry for the direct mail to Pete. LOL... I guess that wasn't the  
idea. Sorry I am new.

Csaba




From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Tue May  6 21:30:48 2008
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 22:30:48 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <40103.38.112.225.84.1210089733.squirrel@www.eventualdecline.com>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
	<20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<fa1b0bd80805060830g3fa97474m696cb980c8396c3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<40103.38.112.225.84.1210089733.squirrel@www.eventualdecline.com>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80805061230g6763ff62te09ec750f7427a0d@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/6/08, Ben Lincoln <blincoln at eventualdecline.com> wrote:
> I've been doing mine freehand with my dremel-clone because I don't have an
>  X-Y table for my drill press (yet). Is an X-Y table what people typically
>  use, or are you all actually clamping and unclamping your boards for every
>  hole?
>

Simply hand positioning. Once learned how PCB vs. drill bit should
*look like* from the angle and inspection lenght my eyes are when
actually doing the drilling, positioning becomes pretty automated yet
accurate enough, so I don't spend much time per hole. I use toner
transfer and leave "drill hole" size inside the pad to 0,3mm which
seems to guide drill bit too.

Samppa


From blincoln at eventualdecline.com  Tue May  6 22:03:33 2008
From: blincoln at eventualdecline.com (Ben Lincoln)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80805061230g6763ff62te09ec750f7427a0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com>
	<200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl>
	<20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<fa1b0bd80805060830g3fa97474m696cb980c8396c3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<40103.38.112.225.84.1210089733.squirrel@www.eventualdecline.com>
	<fa1b0bd80805061230g6763ff62te09ec750f7427a0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38979.38.112.225.84.1210104213.squirrel@www.eventualdecline.com>

On Tue, May 6, 2008 12:30 pm, Samppa Tolvanen said:

> Simply hand positioning. Once learned how PCB vs. drill bit should
> *look like* from the angle and inspection lenght my eyes are when
> actually doing the drilling, positioning becomes pretty automated yet
> accurate enough, so I don't spend much time per hole. I use toner
> transfer and leave "drill hole" size inside the pad to 0,3mm which
> seems to guide drill bit too.

Ah, OK, thanks.

I might be overly paranoid because I tried hand-positioning something
without clamping in my drill press awhile ago and it spun around and was
smashed apart due to the higher torque compared to a handheld tool. I
haven't had a chance to try it again with a lower torque setting.



From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Tue May  6 22:46:08 2008
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 21:46:08 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <000601c8aee6$1908d720$46a8f25a@stingo>
Message-ID: <000c01c8afba$38169100$26e7883e@stingo>

Hi list,
	I thought I'd send one reply to save space and time, so thanks to
everyone who responded, particularly Eric and Dave who managed to get some
calculations going in about a tenth of the time it took me (had to dust my
copy of Mathematica off, it doesn't come out very often, and when it does, I
find I have forgotten even basic things like 'For' loops etc...).

So I *have* now got some calcs up and running myself and concur that the
length is indeed 262140. I also checked that the sequence from the 19-stage
equivalent *linear* register, as given by the Berlekamp-Massey algorithm run
I did, does also give the same sequence.

First, having done some calcs, the proof that it *is* non-linear is
virtually immediate. If you start with a '1' in stage 1, and 0s for the
rest, at the first shift the feedback is easily seen to be 0, and we then
shift the only 1 out of the register and a 0 in, i.e. it is now filled with
*18* zeroes - thus it *cannot* be linear as it would stick in this state for
ever. And of course this would explain why we need one more stage to
implement it as a linear register, as it *can* cope with 18 0s and one 1.

My original 'working' for believing it was non-linear was this: first assume
the inverter isn't there, so build up the feedback poly as:
1. x^13+1 from first xor
2. xor'ed with x^9 to get x^13+x^9+1
3. whole poly then x^18+x^13+x^9+1

But (so I reasoned) the inverter adds a '1' at step 1., and as we are
implicitly working mod 2, we get x^13+1+1 = x^13. Thus when added at step 2.
we get x^13+x^9 = x^9(x^4+1), which is non-linear (never mind adding the
x^18, which I'm not even sure is a valid thing to do in this case). However
I'm not now convinced that adding this '+1' is valid - I need to go back to
the definition of how the poly is defined from the (linear) recurrence, to
see if that makes sense in those terms. If I could remember how to calculate
the sequence directly from the poly (I seem to recall something about using
the 'trace' function), and I did get the sequence from the non-linear one
above, I think that would clinch it.

I will also read up on how to find the period from any old poly defining a
sequence (I think I need to find the least k for which the poly divides
x^k+1, but I could be wrong), as if I do so for the length-19 polynomial, I
should then be able to verify how the 262140 = 2^18-4 arises. The length 19
poly is:

x^19+x^18+x^14+x^13+x^10+x^9+x+1 =

(1+x)^3(1+x^2+x^4+x^6+x^8+x^9+x^10+x^11+x^12+x^14+x^16)

Curiously, if we factor the poly without the inverter (back to the 18-stage
register):

x^18+x^13+x^9+1 we get

(1+x)^2(1+x^2+x^4+x^6+x^8+x^9+x^10+x^11+x^12+x^14+x^16)

which just cannot be coincidental that what we lose is a '1+x' term which is
basically what inversion is?!

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tim 
> Stinchcombe
> Sent: 05 May 2008 20:28
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
> 
> 
> Hi list,
> 	I've been trying to establish the length of the 
> sequence from a particular 4006 shift register setup. It is 
> used in the Doepfer A-117, which is where I came across it; 
> Ken Stone also uses it in his 'Digital Noise'
> module:
> 
> http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs31_digital_noise.html
> 
> and the earliest reference I've found to it so far is in a 
> 1990 book by Ray Marston, 'Integrated Circuit and Waveform 
> Generator Handbook'.
> 
> At first I thought the inverter in the feedback (middle 4030 
> gate in Ken's circuit above) would mean that the length of 
> the sequence would be some what less than 2^18-1. Then in 
> attempting to translate the gates into polynomials (if I've 
> got it right) the inverting action seems to make the feedback 
> non-linear, and so the normal theory of LFSRs no longer 
> applies. So I 'captured' a few bit sequences on my scope (the 
> longest being 59 bits), and ran it through the 
> Berlekamp-Massey algorithm, which appears to say that the 
> length of the minimum *linear* feedback shift register which 
> could generate this sequence is actually 19 stages, i.e. one 
> more than the 18 available in the 4006! I'm hoping that this 
> 'anomaly' *is* due to the non-linearity...
> 
> Has anyone done any analysis of this or similar circuits, 
> i.e. with an inverter in the feedback? Or if anyone steer me 
> in the right direction, or toward a decent analysis of this 
> circuit, then I'd appreciate it. (I can't find anything 
> similar in Electronotes; not much seems to turn up in the 
> Synth DIY archives; but I note the EDP Wasp and Gnat use 
> similar circuits, but with a different arrangement of taps 
> and inverter.)
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Tim
> 
> P.S. I have a copy of Golomb's 'Shift Register Sequences', 
> but I'm kinda hoping to get at least a semi-cogent sense of 
> what is happening without resorting to 3 months hard graft... 
> __________________________________________________________
> Tim Stinchcombe 
> 
> Cheltenham, Glos, UK
> email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 






From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed May  7 00:09:24 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 15:09:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <000c01c8afba$38169100$26e7883e@stingo>
References: <000c01c8afba$38169100$26e7883e@stingo>
Message-ID: <4820D714.3070703@sonic.net>

Tim Stinchcombe wrote:

> First, having done some calcs, the proof that it *is* non-linear is
> virtually immediate. If you start with a '1' in stage 1, and 0s for the
> rest, at the first shift the feedback is easily seen to be 0, and we then
> shift the only 1 out of the register and a 0 in, i.e. it is now filled with
> *18* zeroes - thus it *cannot* be linear as it would stick in this state for
> ever. 

Hi Tim,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your scenario, but when the register is all 
zero, the feedback will be ~(0^0^0) = 1.  Here's the sequence going thru 
zero:

                   262137, 000000000000001111
                   262138, 000000000000000111
                   262139, 000000000000000011
                   262140, 000000000000000001
                   262141, 000000000000000000
                   262142, 100000000000000000
                   262143, 110000000000000000
                   262144, 111000000000000000
                   262145, 111100000000000000
                   262146, 111110000000000000


-Dave




From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Wed May  7 00:40:09 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 15:40:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] modular using electrical boxes
In-Reply-To: <2055214.120071210077955573.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004.me-wanadoo.net>
References: <2055214.120071210077955573.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004.me-wanadoo.net>
Message-ID: <A3E96ACD-A539-4E21-9CF3-25E1E11AE9E3@shaw.ca>

A little while ago some posted a link to a page containing a modular  
synth where each module was housed in electrical back boxes. I can't  
find the right search term in the archive or google to get my the page.

Can someone send me the link. This is for a new recruit to the cause :)

Thanks

Vrnc



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed May  7 00:59:23 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 23:59:23 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for these parts
In-Reply-To: <dc5946590805060816qceb3491v336ceed3b83a0327@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc5946590805060816qceb3491v336ceed3b83a0327@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4820E2CB.2080807@burnit.co.uk>

Try these places:
http://www.dalbani.co.uk/index.php
http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com

In UK but will ship worldwide I think


Pete wrote:
> Im trying to repair an sh-1, and I need these parts. Can someone
> direct me to where I can find these?
>
> 2SA826-Q - PNP Transistor
> 2SC1740-Q - NPN Transistor
> 2SK30A-GR - J-FET N-channel
>
> 1s2473 diodes
>
> thanks,
> pete
>
>
>
>
>   




From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Wed May  7 01:14:29 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 01:14:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Carbon foam
Message-ID: <20080506231429.GA4117@aym.net2.nerim.net>

A while ago there was a thread on sticking ICs in black conductive
foam for storage. Some say it's all right, some say don't do it.

Here's a data point : I recently inspected my 74LS drawers where
hundreds of DIPs have spent the better part of twenty years stuck
in bits of foam of various provenance.

A small fraction of the bits of foam have become gooey and stuck
to the pins. The residue can be scraped off with a cutter but it
looks like some corrosion has happened. All the defective bits are
made from the same material, which has distinctive large cells, a
lighter colour and a "viscous" feel, i.e. after it's compressed,
it takes a little time to expand back to its original size.

So there is foam and foam. Most types hold up well but some try to
eat your chips when you're not looking.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Wed May  7 01:18:14 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 01:18:14 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Carbon foam, the revenge
In-Reply-To: <20080506231429.GA4117@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <20080506231429.GA4117@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20080506231814.GB4117@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-05-07 01:14 +0200, Andre Majorel wrote:

> So there is foam and foam. Most types hold up well but some try to
> eat your chips when you're not looking.

Another data point : Vermason sell two different grades of foam
for that purpose.

  http://vermason.co.uk/FullCatalog/Packaging/Foam/ConductivePinInsertionFoam/241530/
  241530 FOAM, CONDUCT, PIN-INSERTION,  6MM x 1M x 1M
    * Prior Vermason Item Number: L2506
    * Carbon impregnated high density open-cell polyurethane foam,
    * Density 35 to 55kg/m3
    * Provides mechanical and ESD protection, retains devices by
      their pins, non-corrosive
    * Brings inserted terminals and pins to equipotential
    * Rs: <10E4 ohms; Rv: <10E3 ohms/m
    * ?13.30 (13.30 GBP/m?)

  http://vermason.co.uk/FullCatalog/Packaging/Foam/ConductiveClosedCellPinInsertionFoam/241560/
  241560 FOAM, CONDUCT, PIN-INSERTION, CLOSED CELL, 6MM x 1M x 2M
    * Prior Vermason Item Number: L2650
    * Cross-linked, closed-cell polyethylene foam
    * Density 32kg/m3
    * Excellent chemical and physical stability; good for long
      term storage
    * Ideal pin-insertion and pin-retention characteristics
    * Brings inserted terminals and pins to equipotential
    * Rs: 10E3 to 10E5 ohms; Rv: <10E3 ohms/m
    * ?32.60 (16.30 GBP/m?)

The more expensive product is not the denser one ; it's the one
made of polyethylene and supposedly "good for long term storage".

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.


From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Wed May  7 01:31:03 2008
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (Mike I)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 19:31:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Carbon foam
References: <20080506231429.GA4117@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c8afd1$40eda180$b4dc47d1@ca>

Picked up an old square of conductive foam stuffed with TTL chips at a ham
flea market... took it out recently and the foam had become crumbly, and the
IC pins were visibly corroded. On a hunch, tested a moistened piece of the
foam with some pH testpaper and it was highly acidic... pH around 2 !
Perhaps it is some kind of polyvinyl chloride that is releasing HCl as it
deteriorates.

Horrible stuff.
Perhaps the newer pink colored foam doesn't do this.
Best to store ICs in the original antistatic tubes.
M.



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Wed May  7 01:42:32 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 01:42:32 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] Carbon foam
In-Reply-To: <000b01c8afd1$40eda180$b4dc47d1@ca>
References: <20080506231429.GA4117@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<000b01c8afd1$40eda180$b4dc47d1@ca>
Message-ID: <20080507.014232.263426676906582812.cfmd@bredband.net>

From: "Mike I" <mirwin at marketbridge.ca>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Carbon foam
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 19:31:03 -0400
Message-ID: <000b01c8afd1$40eda180$b4dc47d1 at ca>

> Picked up an old square of conductive foam stuffed with TTL chips at a ham
> flea market... took it out recently and the foam had become crumbly, and the
> IC pins were visibly corroded. On a hunch, tested a moistened piece of the
> foam with some pH testpaper and it was highly acidic... pH around 2 !
> Perhaps it is some kind of polyvinyl chloride that is releasing HCl as it
> deteriorates.
> 
> Horrible stuff.

OUCH! Indeed.

> Perhaps the newer pink colored foam doesn't do this.

Hope so.

> Best to store ICs in the original antistatic tubes.

As I was foofing about the labbench just now, I discovered that one of the
antistatic tube (it's antistatic properties can be discussed as with all older
IC tubes) the end-plugg had deteriarated, so when I pulled it, it broke loose.
The outer part which used to be hard had just became brittle and the inside
soft suspension was not providing much of a resitance either... it just barely
was sitting there... but just a little force caused them to break.

It is obvious that old packing material break and fail. If the components have
any value, replace.

Cheers,
Magnus


From ka4hjh at gte.net  Wed May  7 02:41:57 2008
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 20:41:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Carbon foam, the revenge
In-Reply-To: <20080506231814.GB4117@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <20080506231429.GA4117@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<20080506231814.GB4117@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <p06240880c446aa23d173@[192.168.1.101]>

>    * Carbon impregnated high density open-cell polyurethane foam,

This is the problem. I don't know what the case is these days but as any
MG-1 owner knows polyurethane from the 70's and 80's has a way of
decomposing. It also effects loudspeaker surrounds from the same period.

At 1:42 AM +0200 5/7/08, Magnus Danielson wrote:
>As I was foofing about the labbench just now, I discovered that one of the
>antistatic tube (it's antistatic properties can be discussed as with all older
>IC tubes) the end-plugg had deteriarated, so when I pulled it, it broke loose.
>The outer part which used to be hard had just became brittle and the inside
>soft suspension was not providing much of a resitance either... it just barely
>was sitting there... but just a little force caused them to break.

Sounds like a loss of elastisizer.

>It is obvious that old packing material break and fail. If the components have
>any value, replace.

We'll be playing this game for a long time. Do they make IC rails out of hemp?

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed May  7 02:47:12 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:47:12 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for these parts
In-Reply-To: <dc5946590805060816qceb3491v336ceed3b83a0327@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004801c8afdb$e4288ae0$8501a8c0@ice9>

According to an equivalents book, you could try:

2SA826: BC356, BC557

2SC1740: BC237, BC547

2SK30A: BFS70, 2N3821, 2N4220

Supposed to be close electrical match, pinouts may differ.
By all means go for the 'real deal' if you can find them!

paul perry Melbourne Australia






From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Wed May  7 03:26:42 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 18:26:42 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] modular using electrical boxes
In-Reply-To: <A3E96ACD-A539-4E21-9CF3-25E1E11AE9E3@shaw.ca>
References: <2055214.120071210077955573.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004.me-wanadoo.net>
	<A3E96ACD-A539-4E21-9CF3-25E1E11AE9E3@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <E71A0BBC-2091-4762-AA3D-447B210CD5BD@shaw.ca>

Thanks to Dan Snazelle- Fred from Tim Daugard was it.


On 6-May-08, at 3:40 PM, Veronica Merryfield wrote:
> A little while ago some posted a link to a page containing a modular  
> synth where each module was housed in electrical back boxes. I can't  
> find the right search term in the archive or google to get my the  
> page.
>
> Can someone send me the link. This is for a new recruit to the  
> cause :)
>
> Thanks
>
> Vrnc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Wed May  7 03:52:11 2008
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 04:52:11 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for these parts
In-Reply-To: <004801c8afdb$e4288ae0$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <dc5946590805060816qceb3491v336ceed3b83a0327@mail.gmail.com>
	<004801c8afdb$e4288ae0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80805061852k2d8a9362w7b8e50f81858c234@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/7/08, Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au> wrote:
> According to an equivalents book, you could try:
>
>  2SA826: BC356, BC557
>
>  2SC1740: BC237, BC547
>

Good bit of advice there. And if You read between the lines:
BC547/BC557 as equivelents-- probably any typical small signal NPN/PNP
transistor will do. (One way to decipher Japanise schematics: If
they're all over the place, they're nothing fancy - If those aren't
"Thee Dotted Ones" ;)

>  2SK30A: BFS70, 2N3821, 2N4220

I wouldn't try to substitute the FET as both Small Bear and Vintage
Planet carry these. (And actively used at least by x0xboxers and
stompboxers)

Samppa


From batzman-nr at all-electric.com  Wed May  7 04:22:39 2008
From: batzman-nr at all-electric.com (Batz Goodfortune)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 11:52:39 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] Wasp + Kenton
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80805061852k2d8a9362w7b8e50f81858c234@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <004801c8afdb$e4288ae0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<dc5946590805060816qceb3491v336ceed3b83a0327@mail.gmail.com>
	<004801c8afdb$e4288ae0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20080507114857.04051148@mail.all-electric.com>

Y-ellow All.
         Just in case the synth historians here wished to froth at the 
mouth, there's an EDP Wasp + Kenton MIDI converter for sale on EvilBAbY in 
Melbourne Australia. It'll probably go for megabux but just in case I 
thought I'd better bring it to someone's attention.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180240046759&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008

Hope this helps.

Be absolutely Icebox.

  _ __        _    __International Pain-in-the-Ass and prophet of doom__
| "_ \      | |
| |_)/  __ _| |_ ____       ALL ELECTRIC KITCHEN
|  _ \ / _` | __|___ |Your source of Armageddon in a musically crass world
| |_) | (_| | |_  / /
|_,__/ \__,_|\__|/ /   Disgusting-> http://all-electric.com
                 / ,__  Music-> http://all-electric.com/music_downloads.html
Goodfortune    |_____| Cult  -----> http://www.subgenius.com



From synth at casperelectronics.com  Wed May  7 09:13:50 2008
From: synth at casperelectronics.com (peter edwards)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 03:13:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] WAY O.T. WWII switchbay
Message-ID: <10E6FBE6-91B8-4774-81B4-33E2ABA5EA64@casperelectronics.com>

This is pretty far off topic, I hope it doesn't bother anyone.  I'm a  
synth nut and I found this to be pretty neat. Maybe some of you will  
too.
I have a WWII field phone switch bay with a bunch of phones and some  
boxed parts that I got long ago with the plan of building a synth  
into the housing. I have since decided that this is unrealistic and  
too heavy and have too many other projects to work on. I'd like to  
sell it but I have no idea how to asses the value. Are there any WWII  
gear buffs here who could help point me in the right direction?

  I put a page on my site with lots of pictures I hope someone finds  
them to be entertaining:
http://www.casperelectronics.com/switchboard/




From 23isgood at gmail.com  Wed May  7 09:25:38 2008
From: 23isgood at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 00:25:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for these parts
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80805061852k2d8a9362w7b8e50f81858c234@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc5946590805060816qceb3491v336ceed3b83a0327@mail.gmail.com>
	<004801c8afdb$e4288ae0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<fa1b0bd80805061852k2d8a9362w7b8e50f81858c234@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dc5946590805070025p47cb6174qd8fdeed885bae193@mail.gmail.com>

 Hi folks. I just wanted to say thanks for the help in finding these
parts, and all the suggestions. It looks like I found the parts I
needed.

Cheers,
pete


From mr at analogue.org  Wed May  7 18:14:40 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 18:14:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Modified potentiometer response curves?
Message-ID: <200805071614.m47GE4c6006126@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

Hi all tweakers,

the response curve of a linear pot can be altered in clever ways.
For instance, shunting it to ground gives a "fake log"-ish curve:

	http://sound.westhost.com/project01.htm

and a "double-pot-ish" balance/pan pot is often constructed like this:

	http://www.headwize.com/images3/balvol.gif

I'm wondering... are there other clever ways of bending a pot 
response to new useful curve shapes by means of resistors and perhaps 
some OP-amp etc?

I'm dabbling a bit with a construction for a "bipolar log pot", 
almost like an x^3 curve, but it feels like wheels like these have 
probably been invented before. :-)


/mr


PS.
To conclude, I can mention this article where the "fake log" 
construction is strongly criticized compared to a "real log" pot, see 
the picture at the bottom here:

	http://tangentsoft.net/audio/atten.html

Blue curve is linear, red is [ideal] log.
I can agree with them for a big volume knob on a hi-fi amp playing 
various unknown audio sources with very different volume 
levels  -  but for use in synth contexts I actually consider a "fake 
log" response like the green curve to be far superior both lin and 
log pots. The majority of the pot turn becomes nearly log, but over a 
smaller output range - which suits the often quite well-known signal 
levels well - and the curves gets steeper in the maximum end, which 
makes it easier to incorporate an optional overdrive at the input pot 
of, say, a filter.




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Wed May  7 20:49:57 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:49:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Press-N-Peel Bluee and color laser printerS?
References: <00dd01c8a923$3bef09d0$0202a8c0@positronium><215469.74040.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com><3de47a20804300808y5b9806dex22b8620e191df102@mail.gmail.com><200804302048.16313.Stromeko@nexgo.de><BAY144-W4812217A57A761CBB6EADBC8D40@phx.gbl><20080505002745.GN59657@moo.sysabend.org><000a01c8aef1$7cdd2c00$0202a8c0@positronium><74DBC974-3963-4003-8CF4-4BCA0216DCFA@btinternet.com><001501c8af17$9995d060$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<F12A454A-0FC1-4A7C-8D16-C454F2BD55B2@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <009001c8b073$27d9c550$0202a8c0@positronium>

Oh so you didn't have to replace a... a... dammit! I used to work at a 
Kinko's and I can't for the life of me think of what that hot roller things 
is called! Lessee: not the imaging unit (though God help you if you need to 
replace one of those...)... The FUSER! Yeah, that's it. I thought you maybe 
had a Fuser-melt. Of course now that I think about it, those things have 
silicone oil all over them so nothing that's meant to be put through a 
printer in one way or another could really stay stuck to it if it melted.

I wonder if running weird stock will void my warranty? I bought an extended 
one so it better not. But I got this baby for $219 (before the warranty 
etc...) I wanted it because of the way it lays on toner nice and thick and 
solid.

So I should maybe buy more than the three sheets of Press-n-Peel Blue that I 
did?

Anybody have success stories with PnP Blue with HP Color LaserJets?

I'm itchin' to do some circuit boards and some brass panels and some die 
cast project boxes I thought would look cool etched.

Wouldn't it be simplest just to load the PnP in the paper tray?

cheers,
Anthony


> oh nothing serious, other than the expense of how much several  mangled 
> sheets of lazertran sets you back while try to get it to work.
> In the end all it did for me was nasty paper jams, involving a lot of 
> work to peel out the melted sheets.  This was from me trying several  of 
> the custom card stock settings and through the front feeder tray  which 
> apparently goes through a different path.
>
> A few weeks after my expensive experiment, I happened to hear a  rumour 
> they'd changed lazertran slightly to cope with the new  temperatures, 
> nothing on their site though. Perhaps I'll give them a  ring at some point 
> and find out.
>
>
> On 6 May 2008, at 02:22, anthony wrote:
>
>> I guess if it doesn't work, I can ake printouts of what I need and  run 
>> the PnP through a copier at Kino's. Those machines tend to have  a fairly 
>> straight paper pathway.
>>
>> What did you have to repair when you used Lazertran?
>>
>> aa
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'd like to know how you get on with PnP,   not tried it myself  but I 
>>> have a 2600n also and it doesn't play too nice with  lazertran ( I 
>>> found the expensive way) and several over plastic  like papers I was 
>>> trying for panels. The 2600n is of one of the  newer breeds of lasers 
>>> with much higher bonding temperature, so  would be handy to know if  PnP 
>>> works ok.
>>>
>>> Hopefully I can pick up a cheap old mono laser someday for   lazertran, 
>>> In the meantime Im eager to learn a bit of screen   printing for panel 
>>> work.
>>> Seems plenty of useful tutorial videos on you-tube for that btw..
>>>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Wed May  7 22:45:09 2008
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:45:09 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <4820D714.3070703@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <000001c8b083$40d58ac0$67544654@stingo>

Hi Dave,

> Maybe I'm misunderstanding your scenario, but when the
> register is all 
> zero, the feedback will be ~(0^0^0) = 1.  Here's the sequence 
> going thru 
> zero:
> 
>                    262137, 000000000000001111
>                    262138, 000000000000000111
>                    262139, 000000000000000011
>                    262140, 000000000000000001
>                    262141, 000000000000000000
>                    262142, 100000000000000000
>                    262143, 110000000000000000
>                    262144, 111000000000000000
>                    262145, 111100000000000000
>                    262146, 111110000000000000

What I was trying to describe was the situation at your step 262140, with
just the one '1' in it; as the feedback then is zero, the next step is the
all-zero case, 262141. If this were a *linear* FSR, this would put paid to
it, as if would then (necessarily for a linear FSR)feedback zero, and we'd
forever stay at zero. That we *do* get a non-zero feedback from the all-zero
state, and so the sequence keeps going, is what stops it being linear.

But actually there *is* another possibility: I think most of the theory is
devoted to linear, *homogeneous* recurring sequences, the 'homogeneous'
referring to the fact that there is no constant amount added to the feedback
(a '1' for binary case), 'constant' in that it is not derived from any of
the register stages; this is effectively what the inverter seems to be doing
in this circuit, but in either case, be it non-linear or inhomogeneous, it
is that which stops much of the theory applying, and hence the difficulty in
calcuating the sequence length directly (from some polynomial, assuming that
one could sensibly work it out!).

I'm still playing with the polynomials from the length-19 equivalent linear
FSR, but I'm having some difficulty with finding the 'order' of the big
nasty one in my last post. I haven't read enough of my book yet to decided
if I can find it easily, or if I'm going to need to do some brute force
polynomial division, which will either require finding a finite field
package for Mathematica, or a messy lot of programming that I don't think I
have the enthusiasm for.

Rest assured if I do get it sussed, I will let the list know (that's if
anyone else is still following this...!?).

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk







From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May  8 02:32:26 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:32:26 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] RE:  Modified potentiometer response curves?
Message-ID: <005301c8b0a2$fdf8a320$8501a8c0@ice9>



Hi Mattias!
I suppose you know
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm

I strongly suspect that a centre tapped linear pot would be the best
starting point for your x^3.

Generation of control voltages of various transformations is a well-explored
field. I even have a book dealing solely with this, dating back from the
days of analog computers:
Function Circuits (Wong & Ott) mentioned on this page:
http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog/readlist.htm

best, paul perry Melbourne Australia (Frostwave)






From jhaible at debitel.net  Thu May  8 08:48:21 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:48:21 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
Message-ID: <001701c8b0d7$81aff9f0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Hi,

I'm looking for an unexpensive way to measure a frequency response.
I've seen there are a couple of shareware programs that use the soundcard of 
a PC to both create a stimulus signal, and to measure the response.
Does anybode on the list have experience with one of these programs?

I'm looking for something to measure highly resonant filters, and I'm not 
sure if something that's aiming for the Audio / HiFi market is good enough, 
with short chirp signals and all.
I'd feel more confident with something that sweeps very slowly, and measures 
with a small bandwidth filter - or whatever the equivalent in the digital 
domain would be.

Can you recommend anything? (Price range 50 ... 100 Dollars, or is this 
unrealistic?)

Thanks in advance,

JH.



From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu May  8 08:59:38 2008
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:59:38 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
In-Reply-To: <001701c8b0d7$81aff9f0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <001701c8b0d7$81aff9f0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A4E1B5EA1EA@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>


Hallo J?rgen!

Have a look at Analyzer 2000 at http://www.brownbear.de/

Ciao
Peter


--
Peter Ullrich I Hardware Engineer, Research & Development
Phone +43 (0)50 811 2265 I Mobile +43 (0)664 628 2265
eFax +43 (0)50 811 992265 I peter.ullrich at kapsch.net

Kapsch TrafficCom AG I Wagenseilgasse 1 I A-1120 Vienna I Austria
http://www.kapschtraffic.com/ I http://www.kapsch.net/
Registered at Commercial Court in Vienna FN223805a
Registered Office Vienna

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] Im Auftrag von JH.
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. Mai 2008 08:48
An: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Betreff: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?


Hi,

I'm looking for an unexpensive way to measure a frequency response.
I've seen there are a couple of shareware programs that use the soundcard of a PC to both create a stimulus signal, and to measure the response.
Does anybode on the list have experience with one of these programs?

I'm looking for something to measure highly resonant filters, and I'm not sure if something that's aiming for the Audio / HiFi market is good enough, with short chirp signals and all.
I'd feel more confident with something that sweeps very slowly, and measures with a small bandwidth filter - or whatever the equivalent in the digital domain would be.

Can you recommend anything? (Price range 50 ... 100 Dollars, or is this
unrealistic?)

Thanks in advance,

JH.



From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Thu May  8 11:28:16 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:28:16 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
In-Reply-To: <001701c8b0d7$81aff9f0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <001701c8b0d7$81aff9f0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <20080508092816.GA3083@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-05-08 08:48 +0200, JH. wrote:

> I'm looking for something to measure highly resonant filters,
> and I'm not sure if something that's aiming for the Audio / HiFi
> market is good enough, with short chirp signals and all.
> I'd feel more confident with something that sweeps very slowly,
> and measures with a small bandwidth filter - or whatever the
> equivalent in the digital domain would be.

Are you sure you want a BPF on the input ? Having the noise and
distortion products lumped together with the signal is not ideal
but isn't that more useful than not seeing them at all ?

If the filter under test is resonant, it will ring at Fc even if
the input frequency is far from Fc. A BPF will make the FUT appear
more selective than it really is.

I think. :-)

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.


From mr at analogue.org  Thu May  8 12:47:47 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:47:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Modified potentiometer response curves?
In-Reply-To: <005301c8b0a2$fdf8a320$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <005301c8b0a2$fdf8a320$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040805080347v3905845cue91514b718fd00e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul & Kevin,
thanks for the recommended documents (even though I've already seen them;)

2008/5/8 Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>:
>
>  I strongly suspect that a centre tapped linear pot would be the best
>  starting point for your x^3.

Definitely true. But since centre-tapped pots are not readily
available among my preferred pot makers, I'm afraid it's out of the
question.

>  Generation of control voltages of various transformations is a well-explored
>  field. I even have a book dealing solely with this

I'd say that voltage transformation is a very different thing from pot
curve modification, where the input voltage should pass with only a
change in amplitude and where it is the _pot_ value that is actually
subject to a transformation.

The "S"-curved responses obtained by shunting a linear pot's wiper
with resistors to its both ends are definitely useful, but with the
inclusion of an OP-amp and some clever feedback I'm sure that many
even more interesting responses could be achieved. I'm especially
thinking of obtaining a zero-derivative like in the middle of an x^3
curve, and also having the mid position guaranteed to be zero (even
without external trimming), instead of "half the range".


/mr


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May  8 14:24:17 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 22:24:17 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Modified potentiometer response curves?
In-Reply-To: <1f4a82040805080347v3905845cue91514b718fd00e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c8b106$70a21650$8501a8c0@ice9>

-----Original Message-----
>I'd say that voltage transformation is a very different thing from pot
>curve modification, where the input voltage should pass with only a
>change in amplitude and where it is the _pot_ value that is actually
>subject to a transformation.

Yes indeed.
But - depending on your application - the problem might be best solved via a
VCA approach, seeing as this is indeed S-DIY.

In any case, an interesting way to get fairly extreme results is to have two
op amps, controlled by ganged pots that are modified in slightly different
ways, and then take the difference between the two outputs.

Paul Perry Melbourne Australia




From mr at analogue.org  Thu May  8 14:42:33 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 14:42:33 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] RE: Modified potentiometer response curves?
In-Reply-To: <005d01c8b106$70a21650$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <1f4a82040805080347v3905845cue91514b718fd00e@mail.gmail.com>
	<005d01c8b106$70a21650$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <200805081241.m48CftIO010300@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

At 14:24 2008-05-08, Paul Perry wrote:
>-----Original Message from Mattias R-----
> >I'd say that voltage transformation is a very different thing from pot
> >curve modification, where the input voltage should pass with only a
> >change in amplitude and where it is the _pot_ value that is actually
> >subject to a transformation.

I perhaps should have clarified from the start that it's mainly input 
sensitivity pots (for audio input levels and modulation amounts) that 
I'm considering here, not just CV offset pots (for cutoff frequency, 
oscillator tuning etc) where the output voltage can be tilted with 
diodes and other unlinear stuff. Sorry. :)

>Yes indeed.
>But - depending on your application - the problem might be best solved via a
>VCA approach, seeing as this is indeed S-DIY.
>
>In any case, an interesting way to get fairly extreme results is to have two
>op amps, controlled by ganged pots that are modified in slightly different
>ways, and then take the difference between the two outputs.

Yes, adding or subtracting two versions feels like the right way of 
getting some exotic curves. Would be nice to minimize the OP count, 
though... maybe even just use the input summing OP-amp that's already 
available with both its (-) and (+) inputs?  :-)


/mr 




From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Thu May  8 17:53:13 2008
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:53:13 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: SV: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
Message-ID: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Jurgen,

Not sure if this will work for your exact purposes, but out of all analyzing software out there that i've seen - commercial or not - nothing beats Visual Analyser (http://www.sillanumsoft.org/) which is free. 

Karl

----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----
Fr?n: JH. <jhaible at debitel.net>
Till: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Skickat: torsdag 8 maj 2008 2:48:21
?mne: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?

Hi,

I'm looking for an unexpensive way to measure a frequency response.
I've seen there are a couple of shareware programs that use the soundcard of 
a PC to both create a stimulus signal, and to measure the response.
Does anybode on the list have experience with one of these programs?

I'm looking for something to measure highly resonant filters, and I'm not 
sure if something that's aiming for the Audio / HiFi market is good enough, 
with short chirp signals and all.
I'd feel more confident with something that sweeps very slowly, and measures 
with a small bandwidth filter - or whatever the equivalent in the digital 
domain would be.

Can you recommend anything? (Price range 50 ... 100 Dollars, or is this 
unrealistic?)

Thanks in advance,

JH.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy





      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Yahoo!
http://shopping.yahoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  8 21:16:51 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:16:51 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>

If I direct a lot of my tube questions to rec.audio.tubes instead of here, 
how much SPAM can I count on? 




From jhaible at debitel.net  Thu May  8 21:16:52 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 21:16:52 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003801c8b140$130706b0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

That looks very promising!
Thank you!

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karl Ekdahl" <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se>
To: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 5:53 PM
Subject: SV: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?


Jurgen,

Not sure if this will work for your exact purposes, but out of all analyzing 
software out there that i've seen - commercial or not - nothing beats Visual 
Analyser (http://www.sillanumsoft.org/) which is free.

Karl

----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----
Fr?n: JH. <jhaible at debitel.net>
Till: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Skickat: torsdag 8 maj 2008 2:48:21
?mne: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?

Hi,

I'm looking for an unexpensive way to measure a frequency response.
I've seen there are a couple of shareware programs that use the soundcard of
a PC to both create a stimulus signal, and to measure the response.
Does anybode on the list have experience with one of these programs?

I'm looking for something to measure highly resonant filters, and I'm not
sure if something that's aiming for the Audio / HiFi market is good enough,
with short chirp signals and all.
I'd feel more confident with something that sweeps very slowly, and measures
with a small bandwidth filter - or whatever the equivalent in the digital
domain would be.

Can you recommend anything? (Price range 50 ... 100 Dollars, or is this
unrealistic?)

Thanks in advance,

JH.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy





      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Yahoo!
http://shopping.yahoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  8 21:18:49 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:18:49 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for these parts
References: <dc5946590805060816qceb3491v336ceed3b83a0327@mail.gmail.com><004801c8afdb$e4288ae0$8501a8c0@ice9><fa1b0bd80805061852k2d8a9362w7b8e50f81858c234@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc5946590805070025p47cb6174qd8fdeed885bae193@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <011601c8b140$59fb8be0$0202a8c0@positronium>

Good. But if you ever need some 2SC1740's, that's probably the transistor I 
have the most of 2nd maybe oinly to 2SC945. And I have all ranges of hFE. I 
also have a lot of 2SC1740S & 2SC1740SL's as well as their complement: the 
2SA933 (& 2SA933S & 2SA933SL).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pete" <23isgood at gmail.com>
To: <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Looking for these parts


> Hi folks. I just wanted to say thanks for the help in finding these
> parts, and all the suggestions. It looks like I found the parts I
> needed.
>
> Cheers,
> pete
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  8 21:21:22 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:21:22 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] WAY O.T. WWII switchbay
References: <10E6FBE6-91B8-4774-81B4-33E2ABA5EA64@casperelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <011b01c8b140$b5a71b30$0202a8c0@positronium>

I wonder if that guy really makes a living sellingthat stuff? I think I 
could undersell him for sure, but make a living at it? I dunno...

The Switchbay isn't really OT I think.

I'd use that stuff in a Synth DIY application without a 2nd thought!

Anthony
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "peter edwards" <synth at casperelectronics.com>
To: "synthdiy DIY" <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:13 AM
Subject: [sdiy] WAY O.T. WWII switchbay


> This is pretty far off topic, I hope it doesn't bother anyone.  I'm a 
> synth nut and I found this to be pretty neat. Maybe some of you will  too.
> I have a WWII field phone switch bay with a bunch of phones and some 
> boxed parts that I got long ago with the plan of building a synth  into 
> the housing. I have since decided that this is unrealistic and  too heavy 
> and have too many other projects to work on. I'd like to  sell it but I 
> have no idea how to asses the value. Are there any WWII  gear buffs here 
> who could help point me in the right direction?
>
>  I put a page on my site with lots of pictures I hope someone finds  them 
> to be entertaining:
> http://www.casperelectronics.com/switchboard/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From music.maker at gte.net  Thu May  8 21:25:15 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 12:25:15 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
Message-ID: <200805081925.m48JPFq8029864@linux7.lan>

"anthony" <aankrom at bluemarble.net> wrote:
>If I direct a lot of my tube questions to rec.audio.tubes instead of here, 
>how much SPAM can I count on? 

Give your news reader a fake email address for newsgroup posting, something obvious like
nospam at nowhere.com and then pick up your answer by going into the group instead of
expecting an answer by email.  If you do that, you will get zero spam from that source.


-- ScottG

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- GateMan-III - FPGA Based Monophonic MIDI Synthesizer with SVF
-- PolyDaWG/8 - FPGA Based 8 Voice Polyphonic MIDI Synthesizer
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From jhaible at debitel.net  Thu May  8 21:29:22 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 21:29:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
References: <001701c8b0d7$81aff9f0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
	<20080508092816.GA3083@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <004601c8b141$d2361750$0400a8c0@jhsilent>


>Are you sure you want a BPF on the input ? Having the noise and
>distortion products lumped together with the signal is not ideal
>but isn't that more useful than not seeing them at all ?
>
>If the filter under test is resonant, it will ring at Fc even if
>the input frequency is far from Fc. A BPF will make the FUT appear
>more selective than it really is.

Yeah right - a sweeping sine tone and an envelope follower is enough for my 
purpose.
Or white noise and a sweeping BPF filter ...
or a sweeping SSB modulator and a fixed BPF filter ...

What I intended to say is that I distrust a raw FFT unless it has an 
enormour amount of bins, and don't know enough about the chirp method I 
found advertised in one of the shareware programs ...

JH.



From rtellason at verizon.net  Thu May  8 21:50:20 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 15:50:20 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
In-Reply-To: <010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <200805081550.20675.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Thursday 08 May 2008 15:16, anthony wrote:
> If I direct a lot of my tube questions to rec.audio.tubes instead of here,
> how much SPAM can I count on?

Quite a bit,  if you put your actual email address in there.  It doesn't need 
to be obscured by much,  to defer the spambots,  though.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  8 21:55:56 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:55:56 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
References: <200805081925.m48JPFq8029864@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <012401c8b145$89e40120$0202a8c0@positronium>

Well I was using google news groups, but I think I'll use trn if there's a 
version of it for Windows XP. The last time I used Usenet it was from one of 
my old Linux (Red Hat 6.1) machines.


> Give your news reader a fake email address for newsgroup posting, 
> something obvious like
> nospam at nowhere.com and then pick up your answer by going into the group 
> instead of
> expecting an answer by email.  If you do that, you will get zero spam from 
> that source.

Is there a way to do that with the google newsgroups?


AA

>
>
> -- ScottG
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- GateMan-III - FPGA Based Monophonic MIDI Synthesizer with SVF
> -- PolyDaWG/8 - FPGA Based 8 Voice Polyphonic MIDI Synthesizer
> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From czvekan at gmail.com  Thu May  8 22:08:05 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 22:08:05 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
In-Reply-To: <003801c8b140$130706b0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<003801c8b140$130706b0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <48235DA5.7030605@gmail.com>

Wow this is some software. I downloaded and installed Visual Analyzer  
10.0.5. I was amazed...

Thanks Karl

Csaba

JH. wrote:
> That looks very promising!
> Thank you!
>
> JH.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karl Ekdahl" <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se>
> To: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 5:53 PM
> Subject: SV: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
>
>
> Jurgen,
>
> Not sure if this will work for your exact purposes, but out of all analyzing 
> software out there that i've seen - commercial or not - nothing beats Visual 
> Analyser (http://www.sillanumsoft.org/) which is free.
>
> Karl
>
> ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----
> Fr?n: JH. <jhaible at debitel.net>
> Till: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Skickat: torsdag 8 maj 2008 2:48:21
> ?mne: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for an unexpensive way to measure a frequency response.
> I've seen there are a couple of shareware programs that use the soundcard of
> a PC to both create a stimulus signal, and to measure the response.
> Does anybode on the list have experience with one of these programs?
>
> I'm looking for something to measure highly resonant filters, and I'm not
> sure if something that's aiming for the Audio / HiFi market is good enough,
> with short chirp signals and all.
> I'd feel more confident with something that sweeps very slowly, and measures
> with a small bandwidth filter - or whatever the equivalent in the digital
> domain would be.
>
> Can you recommend anything? (Price range 50 ... 100 Dollars, or is this
> unrealistic?)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> JH.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________
> L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Yahoo!
> http://shopping.yahoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>   



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May  8 22:14:39 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:14:39 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] New eBay score: Yamaha FL100: why do solder joints fail?
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<200805081550.20675.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <012901c8b148$26f63350$0202a8c0@positronium>

I got a a Yamaha FL100 flanger (the one that uses an MN3208) for a good 
price on eBay. I don't recall what condition the description said the unit 
was in because I didn't care when I bid on it. I always open up and give 
effects the once- or twice-over whenever I buy them. Usually to check for 
any obviously bad things and often to plan for modifications.

I like the way the way this Yamaha is built and they use primo parts all 
through: NJM4559L op amps (I'm a sucker for SIL op amps...). The only bad 
thing about it it would seem is the use of PC board mounted 1/4" jacks 
because even though there is plenty of support for them on each side of the 
box is looks like every single solder joint has jimmied loose. Same deal for 
the power supply jack. (Already fixed - no worries...) I was wondering if 
the conditions when the unit was soldered played a big part or maybe even 
the kind of solder they used? I always use 63/37 solder because it is 
eutectic: that is it doesn't super-cool so it is far less likely to form 
cold joints. (Much less headaches when I'm soldering wire to broken-off pins 
on IC's for sure...)

I was also alarmed that the unit came to me with a battery installed, but 
fortunately it doesn't look like it has been stored in a closet this way for 
10 years. And Yamaha's method of opening the battery compartment beats even 
Digitech with the ease with which it is done.

So you find me on the verge of trying this baby out for the first time. But 
I'm already fond of the atrocious magenta color of the trim & print on this 
thing; even the typical huge YAMAHA brand painted in big magenta letters on 
the back of the unit. I think I may just seak out other Yamaha stompboxes in 
the future and I've decided this before I've even fired it up.

I'm curious to see what putting an MN3205 (is there a BL3205 yet?) in place 
of the MN3208 would sound like. But for now, I'm more curious to see how a 
flanger is pulled off using such a huge BBD. I already have to modulated 
MN3005 delays anyway (albeit in rack units...).

I'd love to have 2 of these remounted in a rack for my MKS-50 (there that's 
how I'm tying it into synth-DIY...). I'd still deck it out with the magenta 
pointer knobs of course...


Cheers,
Anthony 




From music.maker at gte.net  Thu May  8 22:17:34 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 13:17:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
Message-ID: <200805082017.m48KHYKn001881@linux7.lan>

"anthony" <aankrom at bluemarble.net> wrote:
>Well I was using google news groups, but I think I'll use trn if there's a 
>version of it for Windows XP. The last time I used Usenet it was from one of 
>my old Linux (Red Hat 6.1) machines.
>
>
>> Give your news reader a fake email address for newsgroup posting, 
>> something obvious like
>> nospam at nowhere.com and then pick up your answer by going into the group 
>> instead of
>> expecting an answer by email.  If you do that, you will get zero spam from 
>> that source.
>
>Is there a way to do that with the google newsgroups?
>
>
>AA

I don't know because I've used Google newsgroups only for reading.  See what your posting
options are, if you can put a fake one in, I would do that.  

I've been using a copy of Free Agent I've had for many years which still works under XP...
 Because I use it only for reading and posting to USENET and never for email, I can afford
to put in a fake email address and leave it that way.  I don't know if Free Agent is still
available...





>> -- ScottG
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>> -- GateMan-III - FPGA Based Monophonic MIDI Synthesizer with SVF
>> -- PolyDaWG/8 - FPGA Based 8 Voice Polyphonic MIDI Synthesizer
>> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- GateMan-III - FPGA Based Monophonic MIDI Synthesizer with SVF
-- PolyDaWG/8 - FPGA Based 8 Voice Polyphonic MIDI Synthesizer
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From rtellason at verizon.net  Thu May  8 22:32:30 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 16:32:30 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] New eBay score: Yamaha FL100: why do solder joints fail?
In-Reply-To: <012901c8b148$26f63350$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<200805081550.20675.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<012901c8b148$26f63350$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <200805081632.30884.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Thursday 08 May 2008 16:14, anthony wrote:
> I like the way the way this Yamaha is built and they use primo parts all
> through: NJM4559L op amps (I'm a sucker for SIL op amps...). The only bad
> thing about it it would seem is the use of PC board mounted 1/4" jacks
> because even though there is plenty of support for them on each side of the
> box is looks like every single solder joint has jimmied loose. Same deal
> for the power supply jack. (Already fixed - no worries...) I was wondering
> if the conditions when the unit was soldered played a big part or maybe
> even the kind of solder they used? I always use 63/37 solder because it is
> eutectic: that is it doesn't super-cool so it is far less likely to form
> cold joints. (Much less headaches when I'm soldering wire to broken-off
> pins on IC's for sure...)

There are definitely issues when it comes to Yamaha gear and soldering 
connectors...

If you look at the solder joints around the power connector,  for example (and 
I'm assuming here that it's one of those with a pin in the middle like you'd 
have for a lot of the common wall warts) there will be _way_ more solder mask 
around those pins than I can see as being necessary or desirable.  This was a 
real common repair for a lot of those portasound keyboards back when we had 
the shop,  they'd have it on a table,  connector plugged in there,  something 
would bump it,  and it'd rip the foil right off the board.

Cleaning a bunch of that solder-mask off,  putting a bit of wire across any 
breaks,  and building up a nice blob of solder on there usually took care of 
the problem.

I don't know if it's because they *really* want to use less solder,  or 
because they underestimate the stresses being placed on those connections by 
abusive musicians <g>,  but I did notice that later units had a different 
connector,  one that attached to the case itself with two small screws rather 
than relying on only the solder joints to hold it in place.

But yeah,  it's a real common thing with them for some reason.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From jhaible at debitel.net  Thu May  8 22:46:34 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 22:46:34 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><003801c8b140$130706b0$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
	<48235DA5.7030605@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000801c8b14c$9b278b30$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Me too - I'm just running my old String Filter thru it (working on the new 
one).

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Csaba Zvekan" <czvekan at gmail.com>
To: <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?


Wow this is some software. I downloaded and installed Visual Analyzer
10.0.5. I was amazed...

Thanks Karl

Csaba

JH. wrote:
> That looks very promising!
> Thank you!
>
> JH.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karl Ekdahl" <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se>
> To: "JH." <jhaible at debitel.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 5:53 PM
> Subject: SV: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
>
>
> Jurgen,
>
> Not sure if this will work for your exact purposes, but out of all 
> analyzing
> software out there that i've seen - commercial or not - nothing beats 
> Visual
> Analyser (http://www.sillanumsoft.org/) which is free.
>
> Karl
>
> ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----
> Fr?n: JH. <jhaible at debitel.net>
> Till: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Skickat: torsdag 8 maj 2008 2:48:21
> ?mne: [sdiy] Soundcard spectrum analyzer?
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for an unexpensive way to measure a frequency response.
> I've seen there are a couple of shareware programs that use the soundcard 
> of
> a PC to both create a stimulus signal, and to measure the response.
> Does anybode on the list have experience with one of these programs?
>
> I'm looking for something to measure highly resonant filters, and I'm not
> sure if something that's aiming for the Audio / HiFi market is good 
> enough,
> with short chirp signals and all.
> I'd feel more confident with something that sweeps very slowly, and 
> measures
> with a small bandwidth filter - or whatever the equivalent in the digital
> domain would be.
>
> Can you recommend anything? (Price range 50 ... 100 Dollars, or is this
> unrealistic?)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> JH.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________
> L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Yahoo!
> http://shopping.yahoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From synth at casperelectronics.com  Thu May  8 23:01:42 2008
From: synth at casperelectronics.com (peter edwards)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 17:01:42 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] WAY O.T. WWII switchbay
In-Reply-To: <011b01c8b140$b5a71b30$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <10E6FBE6-91B8-4774-81B4-33E2ABA5EA64@casperelectronics.com>
	<011b01c8b140$b5a71b30$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <7ABF4853-7645-44DC-87E4-2C5B450DF119@casperelectronics.com>

I guess I don't think it's off topic, but I thought others might.
Anthony, are you talking about whether I make a living selling the  
stuff on my site? I guess it depends on how you define "make a  
living" :-)
I live with my girlfriend, no kids, no house payments, no car, so my  
expenses are minimal... I make just enough to get by.
There are lots of people that sell similar items cheaper than I do.
-pete

On May 8, 2008, at 3:21 PM, anthony wrote:

> I wonder if that guy really makes a living sellingthat stuff? I  
> think I could undersell him for sure, but make a living at it? I  
> dunno...
>
> The Switchbay isn't really OT I think.
>
> I'd use that stuff in a Synth DIY application without a 2nd thought!
>
> Anthony
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "peter edwards"  
> <synth at casperelectronics.com>
> To: "synthdiy DIY" <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:13 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] WAY O.T. WWII switchbay
>
>
>> This is pretty far off topic, I hope it doesn't bother anyone.   
>> I'm a synth nut and I found this to be pretty neat. Maybe some of  
>> you will  too.
>> I have a WWII field phone switch bay with a bunch of phones and  
>> some boxed parts that I got long ago with the plan of building a  
>> synth  into the housing. I have since decided that this is  
>> unrealistic and  too heavy and have too many other projects to  
>> work on. I'd like to  sell it but I have no idea how to asses the  
>> value. Are there any WWII  gear buffs here who could help point me  
>> in the right direction?
>>
>>  I put a page on my site with lots of pictures I hope someone  
>> finds  them to be entertaining:
>> http://www.casperelectronics.com/switchboard/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Thu May  8 23:17:28 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 23:17:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
In-Reply-To: <012401c8b145$89e40120$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <200805081925.m48JPFq8029864@linux7.lan>
	<012401c8b145$89e40120$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <20080508211728.GB3083@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-05-08 15:55 -0400, anthony wrote:

> Well I was using google news groups, but I think I'll use trn if
> there's a version of it for Windows XP.

Yes, better use a real news reader. Many newsgroups appear to be
buried in spam when read via groups.google.com but nearly
spam-free via a real news server. For some reason, Google are
mind-bogglingly bad at filtering newsgroup spam.

> The last time I used Usenet it was from one of my old Linux (Red
> Hat 6.1) machines.

Or you could log into the same RH 6.1 and run trn from there.

Sincerely yours, writing this email sitting at an Athlon 64, ssh'd
into a C3 running Mutt inside screen, ~/Mail being NFS-mounted
from a Duron.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.


From rainer at buchty.net  Thu May  8 23:24:35 2008
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 23:24:35 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
In-Reply-To: <010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805082324110.12043@archimobil>

On Thu, 8 May 2008, anthony wrote:

> If I direct a lot of my tube questions to rec.audio.tubes instead of here, 
> how much SPAM can I count on?

How many people have you in their Outlook addressbooks?

It can't get any worse.

Rainer


From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Fri May  9 01:12:57 2008
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 00:12:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <000001c8b083$40d58ac0$67544654@stingo>
Message-ID: <011901c8b161$10a45b90$72b1883e@stingo>

Hi list,

> Rest assured if I do get it sussed, I will let the list know 
> (that's if anyone else is still following this...!?).

Well I finally understand this to my satisfaction, so for the record, here
are the (rather terse and) gory details!

As the circuit stands, yes it is linear, but the effect of the inverter (in
this case) is to make it 'inhomogeneous', that is we get an awkward '+1'
term: this stops us writing the characteristic polynomial, because (from the
book I'm mostly referring to, Lidl & Niederreiter, 'Intro to Finite Fields &
their Appns') the poly is only defined for the homogeneous case.

>From the circuit, the recurrence relation is:

s_(n+18) = s_(n+13) + s_(n+9) + s_n + 1

where the 's_n' are the bits, and the inversion gives the '+1', being the
'inhomogeneous' part. Fortunately there is a simple way to make a k'th order
inhomogeneous recurrence relation into a (k+1)'th order homogeneous one
(page 196 L+N) - write the 'n+1' version of the above, then subtract the two
(or add, it's binary, so no difference), so the '+1's will cancel. This then
gives

s_(n+19) = s_(n+18) + s_(n+14) + s_(n+13) + s_(n+10) + s_(n+9) +  s_(n+1) +
s_n

from which we *can* extract the polynomial:

x^19 + x^18 + x^14 + x^13 + x^10 + x^9 + x + 1

which is what I reported I got earlier from the Berlekamp-Massey algorithm.
This factorizes as: 

(1+x)^3(1+x^2+x^4+x^6+x^8+x^9+x^10+x^11+x^12+x^14+x^16).

The order of the factor (1+x)^3 turns out to be 4 (L+N Thm 3.8 p 79), and by
getting Mathematica to factor x^65535+1, giving 4115 factors in total, I
established the larger factor *is* one of these, and so the order of the
large factor is 65535 = 2^16 -1. The period of the sequence is then the
product of these orders = 4*(2^16-1) = 2^18-4 =262140, as previously
established from direct calculation.

In the original circuit, the other 4 states form a periodic sequence on
their own:

011001100110011001
110011001100110011
100110011001100110
001100110011001100

so both the all-1s and all-0s states are in the longer sequence. Even if we
assume that it is equiprobable that any given stage in the register can be
either a 0 or 1 at start-up, it is highly unlikely we'd get into this cycle,
and I'm guessing they're more likely to be mostly 1s or mostly 0s, but not a
mixture, so this makes this cycle even more unlikely. The length-19
homogeneous equivalent presumably has other cycles that the shorter register
cannot generate, because it does have more states, but I'm not interested in
these anyway.

I also discovered the circuit turns up in quite a few places: Barry Klein's
book mentions it, and says it's used in the Maplin 3800 & 5600, which must
equate to the ETI 3800 & 5600, as it is in those too; also the ETI 4600; the
Elektor Formant; plus the others I mentioned before. Which came first is
anybody's guess.

Thanks to those who chipped in with useful thoughts, insights and
calculations.

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk






From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri May  9 02:16:08 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:16:08 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] New eBay score: Yamaha FL100: why do solder joints fail?
In-Reply-To: <200805081632.30884.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <000101c8b169$e17a9a10$8501a8c0@ice9>

For the power supply, trying to push a 2.1 plug into a 2.5 jack will do it.
I've learnt that one might as well make gear gorilla-proof to start with,
because you can't go out in the field & stop people abusing gear.

I've seen phono jacks on some gear that had a closed end - and couldn't
quite take the full length of some plugs. That's not pretty either.

Paul Perry Melbourne Australia




From ebrombaugh at earthlink.net  Fri May  9 02:58:23 2008
From: ebrombaugh at earthlink.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 17:58:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <011901c8b161$10a45b90$72b1883e@stingo>
References: <011901c8b161$10a45b90$72b1883e@stingo>
Message-ID: <4823A1AF.4020207@earthlink.net>

Tim Stinchcombe wrote:

> As the circuit stands, yes it is linear, but the effect of the inverter (in
> this case) is to make it 'inhomogeneous'

Ah - that makes more sense. I was reading through my material on finite 
field algebra and they kept insisting that mod 2 addition (XOR) is 
linear. I couldn't figure out how you could use linear ops to get a 
nonlinearity...

> Thanks to those who chipped in with useful thoughts, insights and
> calculations.

Thank you for chasing it down and writing it up so nicely. This has 
clarified a few things for me.

Eric


From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Fri May  9 03:04:53 2008
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 04:04:53 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
In-Reply-To: <010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOC.4.64.0805090404180.450@vipunen.hut.fi>

On Thu, 8 May 2008, anthony wrote:

> If I direct a lot of my tube questions to rec.audio.tubes instead of here, 
> how much SPAM can I count on?

Or you can just send them here. Some of us like tubes too...

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Fri May  9 03:13:42 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 18:13:42 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Shift register sequence period
In-Reply-To: <011901c8b161$10a45b90$72b1883e@stingo>
References: <011901c8b161$10a45b90$72b1883e@stingo>
Message-ID: <4823A546.2060108@sonic.net>

Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
> Hi list,

o_0

...much detailed work deleted...

> 
> In the original circuit, the other 4 states form a periodic sequence on
> their own:
> 
> 011001100110011001
> 110011001100110011
> 100110011001100110
> 001100110011001100
> 
> so both the all-1s and all-0s states are in the longer sequence. Even if we
> assume that it is equiprobable that any given stage in the register can be
> either a 0 or 1 at start-up, it is highly unlikely we'd get into this cycle,
> and I'm guessing they're more likely to be mostly 1s or mostly 0s, but not a
> mixture, so this makes this cycle even more unlikely. The length-19
> homogeneous equivalent presumably has other cycles that the shorter register
> cannot generate, because it does have more states, but I'm not interested in
> these anyway.
> 
> I also discovered the circuit turns up in quite a few places: Barry Klein's
> book mentions it, and says it's used in the Maplin 3800 & 5600, which must
> equate to the ETI 3800 & 5600, as it is in those too; also the ETI 4600; the
> Elektor Formant; plus the others I mentioned before. Which came first is
> anybody's guess.


I've got to hand it to you for having determination to get to the bottom 
of an issue!

For me, an interesting thing to learn is that for a given polynomial 
using xor feedback vs xnor feedback does not give the same length 
sequence.  I'm not much of a 'maths' guy, so perhaps this is obvious (it 
probably doesn't much work to prove this empirically).  My past 
experience has always been with maximal length sequences, and I'm going 
to boldly state with no backup, that for those sequences it doesn't 
matter whether the feedback is inverted or not.  Is that true?

It makes you wonder who designed this thing in the first place and if 
they knew what they were doing.  Was it intentionally designed to allow 
the all-1s and all-0s states?  The reset circuit is fairly unique 
because it doesn't really reset anything, as the power comes up, at some 
point an inversion is introduced.  That's a non-obvious reset, you might 
expect instead a reset that forces all-1s or all-0s into the shift input.

The other thing to note is the circuit has a spare xor - there's plenty 
of gates to implement a maximal length sequence.  Is that true in the 
older designs too?

Curious.

-Dave






From usenet at teply.info  Fri May  9 08:34:38 2008
From: usenet at teply.info (Florian E. Teply)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 08:34:38 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
In-Reply-To: <200805082017.m48KHYKn001881@linux7.lan>
References: <200805082017.m48KHYKn001881@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <4823F07E.5060406@teply.info>

Scott Gravenhorst schrieb:
> "anthony" <aankrom at bluemarble.net> wrote:
>> Well I was using google news groups, but I think I'll use trn if there's a 
>> version of it for Windows XP. The last time I used Usenet it was from one of 
>> my old Linux (Red Hat 6.1) machines.
>>
>>
>>> Give your news reader a fake email address for newsgroup posting, 
>>> something obvious like
>>> nospam at nowhere.com and then pick up your answer by going into the group 
>>> instead of
>>> expecting an answer by email.  If you do that, you will get zero spam from 
>>> that source.
>> Is there a way to do that with the google newsgroups?
>>
>>
>> AA
> 
> I don't know because I've used Google newsgroups only for reading.  See what your posting
> options are, if you can put a fake one in, I would do that.  
> 
> I've been using a copy of Free Agent I've had for many years which still works under XP...
>  Because I use it only for reading and posting to USENET and never for email, I can afford
> to put in a fake email address and leave it that way.  I don't know if Free Agent is still
> available...
> 
> 

Another good option (at least IMHO) would be an account at cnntp.org, 
which i myself use for usenet access. It's free, and on top of that 
you'll get another email address for posting to usenet. They do highly 
sophisticated filtering on that dresss and then forward the good stuff 
to your original email Adress. Haven't had a single spam mail on my 
(dedicated) usenet adress for nearly two years now, so it's working 
extremely well...

I am by no means connected to cnntp.org apart from happily using their 
service.

HTH
Florian



From loscha at gmail.com  Fri May  9 08:38:48 2008
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 16:38:48 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Archer/Tandy Semiconductor Databook and cross reference
	guide from 1990
Message-ID: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone out there in Synth-DIY land.

I scanned this book in today on the multi sheet feeder here at work.
It's not the whole book, I left out the hundred odd pages cross
referencing Archer/Tandy part numbers to "Real World" parts.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/sets/72157604959610702/

I also have various Dick Smith Electronics kit guides and manuals here
on my Flickr  http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/collections/72157604141857824/

Whilst probably not the most useful documents, they're work having
around online somewhere. I'm hoping they might be of some use to
someone out there!


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Fri May  9 08:40:35 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 08:40:35 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOC.4.64.0805090404180.450@vipunen.hut.fi>
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<Pine.SOC.4.64.0805090404180.450@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20080509064035.GC3083@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-05-09 04:04 +0300, Antti Huovilainen wrote:
> On Thu, 8 May 2008, anthony wrote:
>
>> If I direct a lot of my tube questions to rec.audio.tubes
>> instead of here, how much SPAM can I count on?
>
> Or you can just send them here. Some of us like tubes too...

The problem with Anthony's posts is not the kind of components
they deal with. It's that many of them have no relevance to the
subject matter of the list, synth DIY.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.


From carsten at analog-monster.de  Fri May  9 12:23:37 2008
From: carsten at analog-monster.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_T=F6nsmann?=)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:23:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 216 Knobs or: huge modular project completed
Message-ID: <000901c8b1be$c0c83cf0$6f5f194d@ww901.siemens.net>

Hi list,



yeah, it's done. Please see http://www.analog-monster.de for detailed 
project description including pics, module descriptions, sounds / tracks and 
circuit diagrams.



Cheers



Carsten



From Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com  Fri May  9 16:49:06 2008
From: Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com (Gergo Palatinszky)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 16:49:06 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Multimonica
In-Reply-To: <000901c8b1be$c0c83cf0$6f5f194d@ww901.siemens.net>
References: <000901c8b1be$c0c83cf0$6f5f194d@ww901.siemens.net>
Message-ID: <4952F633F6959741BCD5E10D7842E20107AEC855@epbsa003.budapest.epam.com>

Hi Gents,

My brother has been able to buy a
http://www.obsolete.com/120_years/machines/multimonica/index.html
(No.:133)

It's not fully functional (Till now I had no chance to take a look
outside/inside :O))

Is there anybody who has some technical info (schematic, experience,
anything...) about it?
(some help would be nice when we will start the repair... to do not make
more trouble than fix)

Thanx

	Pala 



From richard.e.johnson at gmail.com  Fri May  9 16:49:13 2008
From: richard.e.johnson at gmail.com (Ric Johnson)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:49:13 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Archer/Tandy Semiconductor Databook and cross reference
	guide from 1990
In-Reply-To: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <be8b34180805090749n4ad29881s6f04057ba8c277fb@mail.gmail.com>

Dude! That is just TOO cool for words. Thank you!!!!

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:38 AM, Loscha <loscha at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone out there in Synth-DIY land.
>
> I scanned this book in today on the multi sheet feeder here at work.
> It's not the whole book, I left out the hundred odd pages cross
> referencing Archer/Tandy part numbers to "Real World" parts.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/sets/72157604959610702/
>
> I also have various Dick Smith Electronics kit guides and manuals here
> on my Flickr  http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/collections/72157604141857824/
>
> Whilst probably not the most useful documents, they're work having
> around online somewhere. I'm hoping they might be of some use to
> someone out there!
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From 23isgood at gmail.com  Fri May  9 18:57:37 2008
From: 23isgood at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:57:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] fixed sh-1
Message-ID: <dc5946590805090957k331498d7p9df381e900ad003@mail.gmail.com>

I sent this to the AH list, just wanted to post it here too.

I removed one of the slider pots,opened it up and
found that the wiper contacts had corroded right off! I took some
resistor leads and soldered one onto each side. I did this to all the
sliders that weren't working, and now the sh-1 is working correctly.

Instead of checking the most direct parts like the sliders, I spent a
lot of time looking for spare parts like transistors. I thought one of
those went bad. This was a good troubleshooting experience.

If anyone would like to see some pics of how I repaired the sliders,
let me know and I will email them to you.

pete

-- 
http://www.myspace.com/23isgood


From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Fri May  9 19:50:27 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 13:50:27 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<Pine.SOC.4.64.0805090404180.450@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <002701c8b1fd$2c055b90$0202a8c0@positronium>

Yes, I consider most of my tube amp questions quite germaine to synth DIY, 
but I thought I'd direct the obviously OT and more esoteric questions to a 
group 100% dedicated to tubes.

But I really don't want to hassle with SPAM from google's Usenet so until I 
pick a decent news reader for XP or fire up a Linux machine again or find a 
tubes mailing list (web forums just aren't as good), I'll continue to share 
my tube stuff here.

I figure if I merely put "tube" in the subject, people can pick & choose 
whether they want to read it. ALthough I often find interesting info in 
threads I stumble onto accidently or by default when OUtlook Express opens 
up.

Anthony


> On Thu, 8 May 2008, anthony wrote:
>
>> If I direct a lot of my tube questions to rec.audio.tubes instead of 
>> here, how much SPAM can I count on?
>
> Or you can just send them here. Some of us like tubes too...
>
> Antti
>
> "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
>   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova
>
> 




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Fri May  9 19:58:01 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 13:58:01 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] WAY O.T. WWII switchbay
References: <10E6FBE6-91B8-4774-81B4-33E2ABA5EA64@casperelectronics.com>
	<011b01c8b140$b5a71b30$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<7ABF4853-7645-44DC-87E4-2C5B450DF119@casperelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c8b1fe$3a3301d0$0202a8c0@positronium>

No no! I meant is there a market for it? I mean people want and people pay? 
I thought maybe I could augment my tube amp & effects pedal business by 
selling bent thinks. But I consider my methods to be stochastic rather than 
purely random, so I couldn't call what I'd do (and have done) to things as 
"bending" per se, but more like "tweaking".

Those toy voice changein megaphones are ripe for the tweaking! I have a few, 
half of which ,sadly, sustained flood damage. I wanted to make a lifesize 
megaphone with an 6" speaker and a 10 watt amp with 4 of those voice 
changers in series, parallel or a combination of both. And with one of those 
cheesy echo chips from a karaoke boombox... Imagine what a pitch shifter 
would sound like in the feedback loop of a longish delay... I collect those 
toy megaphones and those karaoke boomboxes.

"Don't worry. We won't hurt you. We only want to annoy the heck out of you 
and your cats!"

Anthony

>I guess I don't think it's off topic, but I thought others might.
> Anthony, are you talking about whether I make a living selling the  stuff 
> on my site? I guess it depends on how you define "make a  living" :-)
> I live with my girlfriend, no kids, no house payments, no car, so my 
> expenses are minimal... I make just enough to get by.
> There are lots of people that sell similar items cheaper than I do.
> -pete
>
> On May 8, 2008, at 3:21 PM, anthony wrote:
>
>> I wonder if that guy really makes a living sellingthat stuff? I  think I 
>> could undersell him for sure, but make a living at it? I  dunno...
>>
>> The Switchbay isn't really OT I think.
>>
>> I'd use that stuff in a Synth DIY application without a 2nd thought!
>>
>> Anthony
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "peter edwards" 
>> <synth at casperelectronics.com>
>> To: "synthdiy DIY" <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:13 AM
>> Subject: [sdiy] WAY O.T. WWII switchbay
>>
>>
>>> This is pretty far off topic, I hope it doesn't bother anyone.   I'm a 
>>> synth nut and I found this to be pretty neat. Maybe some of  you will 
>>> too.
>>> I have a WWII field phone switch bay with a bunch of phones and  some 
>>> boxed parts that I got long ago with the plan of building a  synth  into 
>>> the housing. I have since decided that this is  unrealistic and  too 
>>> heavy and have too many other projects to  work on. I'd like to  sell it 
>>> but I have no idea how to asses the  value. Are there any WWII  gear 
>>> buffs here who could help point me  in the right direction?
>>>
>>>  I put a page on my site with lots of pictures I hope someone  finds 
>>> them to be entertaining:
>>> http://www.casperelectronics.com/switchboard/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> 




From czvekan at gmail.com  Fri May  9 21:44:56 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 21:44:56 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 10K potentiometers 
Message-ID: <5443332D-4279-482A-840A-9C949AA181BB@gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I am looking for some cheap but still good  linear 10K potentiometer  
source. Panel mount 16mm or 23mm don't matter.

Thanks

Csaba


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Fri May  9 22:15:57 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 13:15:57 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 10K potentiometers
In-Reply-To: <5443332D-4279-482A-840A-9C949AA181BB@gmail.com>
References: <5443332D-4279-482A-840A-9C949AA181BB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080509201557.GA59657@moo.sysabend.org>

On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Csaba Zvekan wrote:
> I am looking for some cheap but still good  linear 10K potentiometer  
> source. Panel mount 16mm or 23mm don't matter.

I'm a big fan of the Alpha 16mm panel mount pots. 
You can get them from Small Bear Elec
Http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=555

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From controlvoltage at gmail.com  Fri May  9 22:32:45 2008
From: controlvoltage at gmail.com (Amos)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 16:32:45 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 10K potentiometers
In-Reply-To: <5443332D-4279-482A-840A-9C949AA181BB@gmail.com>
References: <5443332D-4279-482A-840A-9C949AA181BB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <908a4c120805091332q679180c0t55b49dca5c058d83@mail.gmail.com>

Alpha would be my recommendation as well.  If unavailable, you could
try CTS -- they last a long time and work well enough but they don't
feel half as nice as the Alphas.  Should be a little cheaper though.

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I am looking for some cheap but still good  linear 10K potentiometer source.
> Panel mount 16mm or 23mm don't matter.
>
> Thanks
>
> Csaba
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From czvekan at gmail.com  Fri May  9 23:08:47 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 23:08:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 10K potentiometers
In-Reply-To: <20080509201557.GA59657@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <5443332D-4279-482A-840A-9C949AA181BB@gmail.com>
	<20080509201557.GA59657@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <A850982E-9369-4B81-A9A8-89A30B735EF8@gmail.com>

Yeah .... that's a goooood deal . Thank you Tom


On May 9, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Tom Arnold wrote:

> On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>> I am looking for some cheap but still good  linear 10K potentiometer
>> source. Panel mount 16mm or 23mm don't matter.
>
> I'm a big fan of the Alpha 16mm panel mount pots.
> You can get them from Small Bear Elec
> Http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=555
>
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
> - SynthGeek        -
> - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
> - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
> --------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jhaible at debitel.net  Fri May  9 23:28:33 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 23:28:33 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] String Filter PCBs - Filterbank part - taking pre-orders now
Message-ID: <000f01c8b21b$a2b37470$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Hi,

I've been asked to make PCBs for my String Filter, and now I've redesigned 
the whole thing to make such a project possible.

Even though this project is somehow related to the Moog String Filter, it's 
not a copy, but developed separately, albeit AFAIK going back to similar 
sources. My main sources are:
Ian Fritz, "Filter Bank Design", Electronotes EN#107,
Bernie Hutchins, "A 39-Channel Variable Q Filter Bank", EN#115,
Arthur Benade, "Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics" 2nd edition 1990.
The filter choice for the 40 BPFs (State Variable with Deboo-Integrator) is 
my own.

You can read all about it on my web site 
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter.html , which also 
shows some intimidating photos of the old version. :)
The new version will consist of only 2 boards (or 3, depending on what you 
need).

Board 1 + Board 2 contain the whole 40-band filterbank part and the power 
supply (less mains transformer and fuses), with voltage controlled resonance 
and an opto-electronic limiter.
You can create sounds like this with Board 1 + 2:
http://jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_resonance_ob8.mp3
(OB-8, first dry, then filter bank switched in, then resonance increased. 
Demo is from old version.)
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/half_of_jh_string_filter_20band_113.mp3
(That's something with Board 1 only - 20 Bands)

And then, with some extra equalization, you can turn a synthesizer sound 
into a string-like sound like this:
http://jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_benadecello_cs50.mp3
(CS-50 dry first, then thru filter bank and Cello EQ)

The extra equalisation will be available later, on a separate board (Board 
3).

I'll keep this separate, because I expect more interest in Board 1 and 2 
than in Board 3, so maybe I'll combine Board 3 with something else, like a 
vocal filter (VP330 human voice maybe - this will be decided later.)

I think it's also possible to do the extra equalization with outboard 
equipment (parametric equalizers) - the filter bank is the tricky part, and 
that's what you buy with Board 1 and Board 2.

Right now, I'm taking pre-orders for Board 1 and Board 2 only.
I'll wait a couple of weeks before I put my order to the PCB house. It will 
probably take a couple of months before the PCBs are ready for shipping. But 
I need binding pre-orders now, to calculate if the project makes sense at 
all. You don't have to pay anything now - I'll only send invoices when I 
actually have the boards ready for shipping.

I'm only selling the printed circuit boards (PCBs) for this. You have to buy 
all the necessary components yourself.
I'll provide information how I've built my own string filter, using these 
PCBs (schematics, component overlay, BOM, etc.).
And I'll answer questions about it in this forum:
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20360

(I've you've sent me a mail before, showing interest in this project, please 
send an official order mail as described below, nevertheless.)

If you're interested, please send the following order form including the 
email subject line (important!), with the quantity you want filled in:
(just copy and paste the text, and fill in your personal data.)

=================================================================================

Email subjet line: "String Filter PCB order [n] sets of boards"

=================================================================================

Email text:

I'm ordering [n] sets of 2 PCBs for Board 1 and Board 2 of the JH String 
Filter project (the 40-band filterbank part)

for EUR 54.00 per set of boards,

plus EUR 8.00 for shipping and handling per order.

My adress is:

[Full shipping adress, as it will appear on the envelope for sending you the

PCBs]

My paypal adress is:

[your paypal adress]

========================================================================================



Looking forward to hear from you,

and don't forget the email subject line with the number of PCB *sets* (1 Set

= 2 boards = EUR 54.00)

JH.







From tshire at charter.net  Fri May  9 23:59:48 2008
From: tshire at charter.net (Travis Shire)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:59:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium><Pine.SOC.4.64.0805090404180.450@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<002701c8b1fd$2c055b90$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <001601c8b21f$ffe531c0$6401a8c0@cyberup0n1qn6z>



> Yes, I consider most of my tube amp questions quite germaine to synth DIY,
> but I thought I'd direct the obviously OT and more esoteric questions to a
> group 100% dedicated to tubes.
>
> But I really don't want to hassle with SPAM from google's Usenet so until
I
> pick a decent news reader for XP or fire up a Linux machine again or find
a
> tubes mailing list (web forums just aren't as good), I'll continue to
share
> my tube stuff here.
>
> I figure if I merely put "tube" in the subject, people can pick & choose
> whether they want to read it. ALthough I often find interesting info in
> threads I stumble onto accidently or by default when OUtlook Express opens
> up.
>
> Anthony
>


You could alwys check out the Music Electronics Forum located here:
http://music-electronics-forum.com/home.php

There are several sharp cats on there. You'll even find me on there under
the moniker "Gtr_tech". I have just re-registered to the new forum
recently...it was the AMPAGE forum years back.



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Sat May 10 01:46:58 2008
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 00:46:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 10K potentiometers
In-Reply-To: <A850982E-9369-4B81-A9A8-89A30B735EF8@gmail.com>
References: <5443332D-4279-482A-840A-9C949AA181BB@gmail.com>	<20080509201557.GA59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<A850982E-9369-4B81-A9A8-89A30B735EF8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4824E272.5070003@bugbrand.co.uk>

Ahh, Futurlec:
http://www.futurlec.com/PotRot.shtml
May be slower, but its good prices!
Best, Bugs


Csaba Zvekan wrote:
> Yeah .... that's a goooood deal . Thank you Tom
>
>
> On May 9, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Tom Arnold wrote:
>
>> On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>>> I am looking for some cheap but still good  linear 10K potentiometer
>>> source. Panel mount 16mm or 23mm don't matter.
>>
>> I'm a big fan of the Alpha 16mm panel mount pots.
>> You can get them from Small Bear Elec
>> Http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=555
>>
>> -- 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>> - SynthGeek        -
>> - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>> - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>> --------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sat May 10 03:34:11 2008
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 04:34:11 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
In-Reply-To: <001601c8b21f$ffe531c0$6401a8c0@cyberup0n1qn6z>
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<010f01c8b140$13f4e920$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<Pine.SOC.4.64.0805090404180.450@vipunen.hut.fi>
	<002701c8b1fd$2c055b90$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<001601c8b21f$ffe531c0$6401a8c0@cyberup0n1qn6z>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80805091834h1d354b3y98fdfe659cb2839e@mail.gmail.com>

WTF is this google.groups.whatever?

Is it like DejaNews - like bought by Google? But now You can post?

Please.

Please. Post to the USENET with real email addresses.

Please.

Samppa


From czvekan at gmail.com  Sat May 10 08:49:24 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 08:49:24 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 10K potentiometers
In-Reply-To: <4824E272.5070003@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <5443332D-4279-482A-840A-9C949AA181BB@gmail.com>	<20080509201557.GA59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<A850982E-9369-4B81-A9A8-89A30B735EF8@gmail.com>
	<4824E272.5070003@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D5ACB450-3EC4-42D9-A7A8-ECC02E00A785@gmail.com>

All  right 50 cents you can't beat that . What do you mean by slower ?  
Shipping ?

Csaba
On May 10, 2008, at 1:46 AM, Tom Bugs wrote:

> Ahh, Futurlec:
> http://www.futurlec.com/PotRot.shtml
> May be slower, but its good prices!
> Best, Bugs
>
>
> Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>> Yeah .... that's a goooood deal . Thank you Tom
>>
>>
>> On May 9, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Tom Arnold wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 09:44:56PM +0200, Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>>>> I am looking for some cheap but still good  linear 10K  
>>>> potentiometer
>>>> source. Panel mount 16mm or 23mm don't matter.
>>>
>>> I'm a big fan of the Alpha 16mm panel mount pots.
>>> You can get them from Small Bear Elec
>>> Http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=555
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>>> - SynthGeek        -
>>> - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>>> - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>

**************
http://www.csabazvekan.com
music stuff
http://www.csaba.ch
electronic stuff
http://www.synthmaniac.com
synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)







From czvekan at gmail.com  Sat May 10 11:26:58 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 11:26:58 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Voltcraft PSU smells bad
Message-ID: <5FB21E27-3507-4ACA-BF97-C47492C3577A@gmail.com>

Hi synth friends,

Couple of months ago I picked up a used Voltcraft Laboratory Power  
Supply PS-302A. Unfortunately when I work with it it smells terrible.  
I opened up the thing and looked inside if I can find something  
suspect. There was a wire close to the 5W sink resistors already  
partially burned. I moved it aside . But the smell is more like a   
capacitor that is short.
I can't identify where the smell is coming from but from the cover I  
see there was a burning or almost burning issue since there is a  
little part brown from the heat . Although I have to say that it is  
right above the two 5W resistors.
Any suggestions what it could be ?

Regards

Csaba


**************
http://www.csabazvekan.com
music stuff
http://www.csaba.ch
electronic stuff
http://www.synthmaniac.com
synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)







From czvekan at gmail.com  Sat May 10 13:43:08 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 13:43:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cheap 10K potentiometers
In-Reply-To: <20080510105308.GD3083@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <5443332D-4279-482A-840A-9C949AA181BB@gmail.com>
	<20080509201557.GA59657@moo.sysabend.org>
	<A850982E-9369-4B81-A9A8-89A30B735EF8@gmail.com>
	<4824E272.5070003@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<D5ACB450-3EC4-42D9-A7A8-ECC02E00A785@gmail.com>
	<20080510105308.GD3083@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <6928BE7B-843D-44A5-AD40-3B81125990B3@gmail.com>

Ahh I see ... yes that's true and a good deal. For 50 cents a piece!


On May 10, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Andre Majorel wrote:

> On 2008-05-10 08:49 +0200, Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>
>> All right 50 cents you can't beat that . What do you mean by
>> slower ?  Shipping ?
>
> Yes. With Futurlec, it may take weeks between payment and
> delivery. Not necessarily a problem, if you're not in a hurry !
>
> -- 
> Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
> Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
> See the URL above for contact information.

**************
http://www.csabazvekan.com
music stuff
http://www.csaba.ch
electronic stuff
http://www.synthmaniac.com
synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)








From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun May 11 00:16:41 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 00:16:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] New String Filter Demos
Message-ID: <000b01c8b2eb$86948c40$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Hi,

I've just recorded two short demos with the String Filter prototype.

First one is a fast Arpeggio from the OB-8, first dry, and then with String 
Filter switched on and off, and Resonance altered:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_2008_1.mp3

Second one is a String-like OB-8 sound, made more string-like with the 
String Filter :)
Switched on and off between phrases, to display the difference:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_2008_2.mp3

Note: Unlike the older sample 
(http://jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_benadecello_cs50.mp3), 
the above has *no* Cello pre-equalization (yet)!

String Filter web page is also updated (with the two new samples and 
pictures of the prototype):
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter.html

JH. 



From rtellason at verizon.net  Sun May 11 02:28:34 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 20:28:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] I remember my hesitation at using Usenet groups: SPAM
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80805091834h1d354b3y98fdfe659cb2839e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <141188.40273.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<001601c8b21f$ffe531c0$6401a8c0@cyberup0n1qn6z>
	<fa1b0bd80805091834h1d354b3y98fdfe659cb2839e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200805102028.35142.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Friday 09 May 2008 21:34, Samppa Tolvanen wrote:
> WTF is this google.groups.whatever?

How about going there and taking a look?

> Is it like DejaNews - like bought by Google? But now You can post?
>
> Please.
>
> Please. Post to the USENET with real email addresses.
>
> Please.
>
> Samppa

As real as that gmail one?  :-)

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From gjames at kddlab.com  Sun May 11 03:13:53 2008
From: gjames at kddlab.com (Greg James)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 21:13:53 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips
In-Reply-To: <010b01c8ab2d$f9bfbe30$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>
References: <fca6577f0804301718w59c6d89w843e715291ef9a4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<010b01c8ab2d$f9bfbe30$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>
Message-ID: <015801c8b304$47aa8de0$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>

I have received my order of these chips and I have a few extras after
filling all current requests. If you want to purchase one (or more) from me
at US $15.00 + shipping, drop me a line. I have a small number of wide body
versions available in addition to the narrow body.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Greg James
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:52 PM
To: 'synth DIY'
Subject: [sdiy] Group Buy: TI SN76477 chips

I'm on the hunt for some TI SN76477 chips and I have a possible source for a
group buy. These are the narrow body version. They are required for the
Thomas Henry SN-Voice and Supercontroller PCBs.

It looks like they will cost ~US $15 ea. If you are interested in purchasing
some, please drop me a line by 2008/5/9. I am only ordering 25 chips as I
don't want to get stuck with money tied-up in spares - so the first ones in
get their order filled. If response is overwhelming, I might be able to
increase the lot size.

-Greg

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Sun May 11 11:05:03 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 02:05:03 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Chip ID Help
Message-ID: <20080511090503.GD59657@moo.sysabend.org>

I've got a whole pile of TI chips here.  Can't make any sense of the part
number and hoping someone knows what it is.  Probably a house chip of some
kind but I'd like to make certain before I dispose of them...

O4F3KEK is the top row ( the O could be a 0 or maybe a U? ) and the bottom
row is 8519457-15914.  20Pin DIP.

Any ideas?

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Mon May 12 00:42:01 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 15:42:01 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Opamp with disable - phase detection
Message-ID: <69A22E2A-7CC0-41E6-BC3D-878C1392A353@shaw.ca>

THis link shows an intersil op-amp  with a disable pin being used to  
provide a voltage output proportional to phase. Not sure how fast the  
disable is - the full article talks about video multiplexing and this,  
the phase detection, being a low speed application but that might be  
fast enough for audio use. Someone might have a use for this hence  
passing it on.


http://www.edn.com/contents/images/6553627f1.pdf


From houshu at muj.biglobe.ne.jp  Mon May 12 02:42:43 2008
From: houshu at muj.biglobe.ne.jp (Osamu HOSHUSHUYAMA)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 00:42:43 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Elka Synthex VCA/VCF is extremely interesting
References: <AFFBF30C-C339-4373-A2AD-6711110F9B33@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <000201c8b3c9$34e684a0$9a0aa8c0@WASP>

Hello Aaron and List,

I trimed the VCF part from the schematic.
This will be much easier to see.

  http://houshu.at.webry.info/200706/article_3.html

(I'm sorry that the analysis is in Japanese as usual.)

Sam HOSHUYAMA
Saitama, JAPAN

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Lanterman" <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
To: "SDIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Elka Synthex VCA/VCF is extremely interesting


> Check out the 410CST5800 schematic, right column - that's where the  
> VCA and VCF live:
> 
> http://manuals.fdiskc.com/flat/Elka%20Synthex%20Schematic.pdf
> 
> The schematic takes a bit of practice to read.
> 
> Each VCA consists of two OTAs - the output of one drives the input of  
> the other! It looks like one of the OTAs is a VCA whose job is to  
> modulate the CV modulating the audio, at least if I'm reading it  
> right. The OTAs are 13600s, 4Q and 8Q on the schematic.
> 
> The filters consist of two CEM3320s, 2Q and 6Q. Find them is tricky  
> since their bits and pieces are spread all over the schematic. It's  
> hooked up with electronic switches all over the place.
> 
> The CEM3320 consists of OTA-buffer pairs, with a tap point between the  
> OTA and the buffer for you to hang a cap (or whatever) off of, so in  
> theory you could recreate this with LM13700s or something, if you  
> added your own expo converters.
> 
> The last two OTAs in the chain appear set up as straight single-pole  
> LPFs.
> 
> The first two look tike a typical single-pole OTA-C LPF, except each  
> has a connection from the input to where the cap normally hits ground,  
> and there's a switch that you can use to switch that ground connection  
> in and out. Similarly, where you normally see the input of a LPF, you  
> see a switch. So I'm guessing that these are used alternately - i.e.  
> one is on, and one is off, and you can use this to switch between a  
> highpass and lowpass VCFs.
> 
> It appears that the output of a four-pole block can be tapped from the  
> output of the last pole, the output of the last pole with different  
> amounts of gain  (based on resistors I see), or from output of the  
> second pole. Whatever the output is is fed back to the resonance input  
> pin of the 3320 (pin 8), which internally in the chip is fed back to  
> the negative input of the first OTA.
> 
> How interesting - I haven't seen anything quite exactly like this!
> 
> I'm procrastinating... I'm supposed to be writing up solutions to a  
> homework assignment. ;)
> 
> - Aaron, blessing his parents who are here to help take care of the  
> new little one (and his mother-in-law who has helped the past two  
> week, and who is now heading home)
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Mon May 12 06:02:40 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 00:02:40 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Elka Synthex VCA/VCF is extremely interesting
In-Reply-To: <000201c8b3c9$34e684a0$9a0aa8c0@WASP>
References: <AFFBF30C-C339-4373-A2AD-6711110F9B33@ece.gatech.edu>
	<000201c8b3c9$34e684a0$9a0aa8c0@WASP>
Message-ID: <BCC1D9BE-F014-4F72-99BF-3DB6C4DBA3D5@ece.gatech.edu>

On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Osamu HOSHUSHUYAMA wrote:

> I trimed the VCF part from the schematic.
> This will be much easier to see.
>
> http://houshu.at.webry.info/200706/article_3.html

Thanks!

> (I'm sorry that the analysis is in Japanese as usual.)

Actually, I was able to make some sense of it through the google  
translator. (I applied it to your Buchla 191 analysis and got  
something useful out of it too.)

- Aaron


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon May 12 16:15:39 2008
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (jpdesroc at oricom.ca)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:15:39 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer linearity questionable..
Message-ID: <380-220085112141539849@oricom.ca>

Hi list,

I'm in the process of designing
the artworks for some of my DIY synth
VCO front panels. I found that the supposely
'10% linearity' of some pots like
Vishay/Spectrol cermet 149 are not that
linear in the 0-3 region (0-10 markings).
0 to 10 graded lines around pots
on my front panels won't just alligned
with some pot real values. I measured 20-30%
off values in the 0-3 range which is very disapointing.
Some pots have 300deg mechanical rotation
but loose around 5deg at each ends
which make around 290 of real cursor travel.
This does not allign with 0-10 marks.
When I look some Moog modules like
the 921A I wonder if the 'frequency' pot
was accurate around its mechanical
rotation ends..(?) Moog utilised
Allen-Bradley pots at that time.
Where they more 'linearity reliable'?
I thought Spectrol type pots were
just fine on that..
What do you think?
J-P 




From harrybissell at wowway.com  Mon May 12 17:02:40 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:02:40 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer linearity questionable..
In-Reply-To: <380-220085112141539849@oricom.ca>
References: <380-220085112141539849@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <20080512145725.M27243@wowway.com>

Typically the end resistance of pots and where the
element ~really~ begins are not well specified or
controlled.  I'd check carefully with the manufacturer
to see how they specify linearity. Its likely that it is specified
for full rotation and the small error at the end 
factors out (see "specsmanship")

If the pots are just aligned with panel markings
it is an annoyance.  If the pots were used with some vernier
dial it would be more critical, otoh they would usually be 10 turn
pots and VERY expensive, so they could take care of it better.

Probably, Moog (or other manufacturers) know what pots they will use and make
the front panel graphics match the actual (typical) pots.

Any chance that your circuit is loading the pot and degrading the
linearity further ?

H^) harry



On Mon, 12 May 2008 10:15:39 -0400, jpdesroc wrote
> Hi list,
> 
> I'm in the process of designing
> the artworks for some of my DIY synth
> VCO front panels. I found that the supposely
> '10% linearity' of some pots like
> Vishay/Spectrol cermet 149 are not that
> linear in the 0-3 region (0-10 markings).
> 0 to 10 graded lines around pots
> on my front panels won't just alligned
> with some pot real values. I measured 20-30%
> off values in the 0-3 range which is very disapointing.
> Some pots have 300deg mechanical rotation
> but loose around 5deg at each ends
> which make around 290 of real cursor travel.
> This does not allign with 0-10 marks.
> When I look some Moog modules like
> the 921A I wonder if the 'frequency' pot
> was accurate around its mechanical
> rotation ends..(?) Moog utilised
> Allen-Bradley pots at that time.
> Where they more 'linearity reliable'?
> I thought Spectrol type pots were
> just fine on that..
> What do you think?
> J-P
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon May 12 17:10:42 2008
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (jpdesroc at oricom.ca)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:10:42 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer linearity questionable..
Message-ID: <380-220085112151042607@oricom.ca>

>Any chance that your circuit is loading the pot and degrading the
>linearity further ?
No I'm measuring the pot linearity
unconnected with an electronic ohmmeter.
I plotted the linearity curve on a semilog
graph paper vs 'good' linearity.
I'm thinking of using a lookup table based
microcontroler compensation on future VCO designs..not sure.
I'm already doing so with my ADSR modules with
precise 2msec. to 10sec. marks with success
using a PIC16F88 ADC. I inserted the 'typical'
non-linearity of Alpha 100kB pots.
It gives precise slope times vs pot markings.

J-Pierre
---- Message original ----
De: harrybissell at wowway.com
A: jpdesroc at oricom.ca, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Objet: Re: [sdiy] Potentiometer linearity questionable..
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:02:40 -0500

>Typically the end resistance of pots and where the
>element ~really~ begins are not well specified or
>controlled.  I'd check carefully with the manufacturer
>to see how they specify linearity. Its likely that it is specified
>for full rotation and the small error at the end 
>factors out (see "specsmanship")
>
>If the pots are just aligned with panel markings
>it is an annoyance.  If the pots were used with some vernier
>dial it would be more critical, otoh they would usually be 10 turn
>pots and VERY expensive, so they could take care of it better.
>
>Probably, Moog (or other manufacturers) know what pots they will use
>and make
>the front panel graphics match the actual (typical) pots.
>
>Any chance that your circuit is loading the pot and degrading the
>linearity further ?
>
>H^) harry
>
>
>
>On Mon, 12 May 2008 10:15:39 -0400, jpdesroc wrote
>> Hi list,
>> 
>> I'm in the process of designing
>> the artworks for some of my DIY synth
>> VCO front panels. I found that the supposely
>> '10% linearity' of some pots like
>> Vishay/Spectrol cermet 149 are not that
>> linear in the 0-3 region (0-10 markings).
>> 0 to 10 graded lines around pots
>> on my front panels won't just alligned
>> with some pot real values. I measured 20-30%
>> off values in the 0-3 range which is very disapointing.
>> Some pots have 300deg mechanical rotation
>> but loose around 5deg at each ends
>> which make around 290 of real cursor travel.
>> This does not allign with 0-10 marks.
>> When I look some Moog modules like
>> the 921A I wonder if the 'frequency' pot
>> was accurate around its mechanical
>> rotation ends..(?) Moog utilised
>> Allen-Bradley pots at that time.
>> Where they more 'linearity reliable'?
>> I thought Spectrol type pots were
>> just fine on that..
>> What do you think?
>> J-P
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
>





From antoniotuzzi at gmail.com  Mon May 12 17:35:29 2008
From: antoniotuzzi at gmail.com (Antonio Tuzzi)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 17:35:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OBX style knobs
Message-ID: <f11c57cd0805120835v7e16310dk207e64c7efe6bdd9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Sdiyers,

I need to replace 3 knobs for my OBX... Do you have any source for them ?
(are the same as in OB SEM modules ?)

What's the correct name for this knob style (skirted with removable
cap and screwable from top...) ?

Happy Synthing

at


From modcan at sympatico.ca  Mon May 12 17:39:11 2008
From: modcan at sympatico.ca (Bruce Duncan)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:39:11 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer linearity questionable..
In-Reply-To: <380-220085112141539849@oricom.ca>
References: <380-220085112141539849@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080512113132.0442e5e0@sympatico.ca>

Pot linearity and alignment with panel graphics is always a problem.
Many pots have wide dead bands at extreme pot rotations and circuit 
loading of the pot adds to the problem.

Try to keep the ratio of pot value to connecting summing resistor or 
whatever to 1:10 if possible.
This minimizes linearity problems.
Having said this I wouldn't have 30V across a 1K pot.
If you need super accuracy on the graphics put a piece of card on the 
panel and mark off knob positions on the card for specific performance
values and then transfer to panel graphics artwork by scanning the 
card or some other method.

Bruce


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Mon May 12 18:20:40 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:20:40 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OBX style knobs
In-Reply-To: <f11c57cd0805120835v7e16310dk207e64c7efe6bdd9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f11c57cd0805120835v7e16310dk207e64c7efe6bdd9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080512162015.M55960@wowway.com>

Its called a Collet Style Knob

H^) harry



On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:35:29 +0200, Antonio Tuzzi wrote
> Hello Sdiyers,
> 
> I need to replace 3 knobs for my OBX... Do you have any source for 
> them ?
> (are the same as in OB SEM modules ?)
> 
> What's the correct name for this knob style (skirted with removable
> cap and screwable from top...) ?
> 
> Happy Synthing
> 
> at
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From tonyallgood at btinternet.com  Mon May 12 18:31:17 2008
From: tonyallgood at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 17:31:17 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer linearity questionable..
In-Reply-To: <380-220085112151042607@oricom.ca>
References: <380-220085112151042607@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <482870D5.1040501@btinternet.com>

At the risk of sounding terribly unprofessional, personally I do not 
utilise any form of scale around a pot, even if there is one on the 
panel/display. I make music and sounds with my synths so I am interested 
only what my patch sounds like not how many mS a particular ADSR is set to.

I understand the need for usability in the way the pot interacts with 
the sound, that is; a particular pot law, and that it should be 
monotonic and reproducible. But I'm not sure of the functionality of 
perfectly labelled legending around a pot.

Tom Oberheim didn't bother with increments either.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Mon May 12 19:36:18 2008
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:36:18 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Got CEM3360?
In-Reply-To: <f11c57cd0805120835v7e16310dk207e64c7efe6bdd9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f11c57cd0805120835v7e16310dk207e64c7efe6bdd9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE03F@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>

Lucked out and got a Memorymoog+ needing repair.  It needs a CEM3360. Anyone
(in US) got one or two they want to sell?  WineCountry lists them on their
site for various kits and prices but are closed for a few days.  If
affordable (<$30) I'd like two.

Barry




From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon May 12 20:09:16 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 20:09:16 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Opamp with disable - phase detection
References: <69A22E2A-7CC0-41E6-BC3D-878C1392A353@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <001c01c8b45b$4b4d2630$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Wouldn't a simple electronic switch do the same thing?

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Veronica Merryfield" <veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:42 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Opamp with disable - phase detection


THis link shows an intersil op-amp  with a disable pin being used to  
provide a voltage output proportional to phase. Not sure how fast the  
disable is - the full article talks about video multiplexing and this,  
the phase detection, being a low speed application but that might be  
fast enough for audio use. Someone might have a use for this hence  
passing it on.


http://www.edn.com/contents/images/6553627f1.pdf
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From secoff at execpc.com  Mon May 12 20:38:35 2008
From: secoff at execpc.com (Sam Ecoff)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:38:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wire Gauge Help
Message-ID: <33250A8E-F458-4552-8388-F8D832FF0A86@execpc.com>

Hi Guys,

Can anybody tell me what gauge of wire I want to use for handling  
120V lines into a power supply? I've read online that 14 ga is  
typically used for 15 amp circuits, but this is a 1.5 amp supply.  
Thoughts?

Thanks!

Sam E.




From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon May 12 20:44:51 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (GRAHAM ATKINS)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 19:44:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Got CEM3360?
In-Reply-To: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE03F@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
References: <f11c57cd0805120835v7e16310dk207e64c7efe6bdd9@mail.gmail.com>
	<6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE03F@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
Message-ID: <2D463F3F-C64D-48AC-B67F-87E921A2DB30@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi Barry,

I just found a seller on Ebay UK getting rid of a stock of SSM and CEM  
chips so I asked
him if he had any CEM3360's (Spares for my PPG). He emailed me  
tonight.......he sold
them a few weeks back. Why do we find these things when it is too  
late !!. If you come
across any let us know. The seller still has other devices, the seller  
name is SOUNDUKDAVE.

Graham

On May 12, 2008, at 18:36, Barry Klein wrote:

> Lucked out and got a Memorymoog+ needing repair.  It needs a  
> CEM3360. Anyone
> (in US) got one or two they want to sell?  WineCountry lists them on  
> their
> site for various kits and prices but are closed for a few days.  If
> affordable (<$30) I'd like two.
>
> Barry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From rtellason at verizon.net  Mon May 12 21:02:35 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:02:35 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Wire Gauge Help
In-Reply-To: <33250A8E-F458-4552-8388-F8D832FF0A86@execpc.com>
References: <33250A8E-F458-4552-8388-F8D832FF0A86@execpc.com>
Message-ID: <200805121502.35388.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Monday 12 May 2008 14:38, Sam Ecoff wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Can anybody tell me what gauge of wire I want to use for handling
> 120V lines into a power supply? I've read online that 14 ga is
> typically used for 15 amp circuits, but this is a 1.5 amp supply.
> Thoughts?

That's typical for house wiring,  not the internals of equipment...

I'll typically use 18 or 20 gauge wire for stuff like that.  The quality of 
the insulation is more important than the absolute size of the wire.

Generally,  smaller wire is used for smaller currents,  consistent with it 
being phyically up to the job (stresses,  etc.).  Wire size only becomes a 
real issue when current levels cause too much voltage drop (not likely in 
this case) which results in heating of the wire,  thus causing fires,  etc.

Typical line cords are 18 gauge.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Mon May 12 21:15:05 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:15:05 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Wire Gauge Help
In-Reply-To: <33250A8E-F458-4552-8388-F8D832FF0A86@execpc.com>
References: <33250A8E-F458-4552-8388-F8D832FF0A86@execpc.com>
Message-ID: <48289739.2040909@imt.net>

Any wire bigger than 24 guage that doesn't have thin insulation should 
be ok.  1.5A by code I think requires ...  well it goes 12 guage for 
20A, 14 for 15A, 16 for 10A, then I think 18 for 6A so 20 guage would be 
plenty even but for insulation you might want to go with 18guage 
depending on what you have available. -Bob

Sam Ecoff wrote:

> Hi Guys,
>
> Can anybody tell me what gauge of wire I want to use for handling  
> 120V lines into a power supply? I've read online that 14 ga is  
> typically used for 15 amp circuits, but this is a 1.5 amp supply.  
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sam E.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Mon May 12 22:04:33 2008
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:04:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Looking at the Digital Poly-Syngan
Message-ID: <BAY141-W230B70DD7A6C46BD55E001F5CC0@phx.gbl>


Hi all,

It's been a while since my last post here. I've been busy with school and such. Anywho, I was poking around in the Music Building's library which is an odd little, out of the way, sort of room, and I found a book called "Electronic Music Synthesizers" by Delton Horn. It's a nice old 1980 book that has a section on what to look for in a synthesizer and the second section is all about DIY. Chapter 14 talks about this "Digital Poly-Syngan". It has a basic square-wave oscillator and 2 Frequency-doubling circuits that are quad XOR gates.... per key. It says to duplicate the circuit 12 times. So, for each key there's: a frequency knob, and a switch to switch in or out each of the 3 octaves. 

Now, I know that this is highly impractical if you want to have a standard 12 note equal tempered scale given the popularity of 1V/Octave and polyphonic keyboards and MIDI and such, but what if you want to have a keyboard that could be set up to have any number of notes in the scale you want? What would be a good way to make sure that the simple oscillators were as accurate as possible?

I'm sure there's going to be more questions about this later as I delve deeper into it, but that's it for now.

-Ian Smith
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live SkyDrive lets you share files with faraway friends.
http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_skydrive_052008


From cary.roberts at retrosynth.net  Tue May 13 08:06:05 2008
From: cary.roberts at retrosynth.net (Cary Roberts)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 23:06:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OBX style knobs
Message-ID: <000001c8b4bf$6def1f40$6901fd0a@camilla>

>I need to replace 3 knobs for my OBX... Do you have any source for them
?
>(are the same as in OB SEM modules ?)
>
>What's the correct name for this knob style (skirted with removable
>cap and screwable from top...) ?

They're called collet knobs.  I'm pretty sure the originals were
manufactured by Elma.  The SEM has glossy black knobs.  The OBX and
later Oberheim synths have flat black knobs.  You'll need to purchase
the cap and pointer separately.  Here's the PDF:

http://www.elma.com/Admin/ProductionFiles1/ProductTypeFile/137/English/K
nobs.pdf


-Cary



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Tue May 13 15:51:24 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:51:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer linearity questionable..
Message-ID: <20080513135307.ISQB17393.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

Hi,

> I'm in the process of designing
> the artworks for some of my DIY synth
> VCO front panels. I found that the supposely
> '10% linearity' of some pots like
> Vishay/Spectrol cermet 149 are not that
> linear in the 0-3 region (0-10 markings).

According to the Vishay datasheet for the 148/149 series the taper tolerance is 20% at 50% rotation, with 5% linearity.  The 10% resistance tolerance applies to the entire track, not where the wiper is.

> 0 to 10 graded lines around pots
> on my front panels won't just alligned
> with some pot real values. I measured 20-30%
> off values in the 0-3 range which is very disapointing.
> Some pots have 300deg mechanical rotation
> but loose around 5deg at each ends
> which make around 290 of real cursor travel.

Well, refering back to the Spectrol 148 datasheet that is better what you can expect (270 degree +/- 10 degree).  Pretty normal for pots of that price.

> This does not align with 0-10 marks.

All depends on where you put your marks.  And even then there's the 20% taper tolerance, so you're never going to get such high precision with these pots.

If you want better specs try the Spectrol 357-2-0 series for example.

> When I look some Moog modules like
> the 921A I wonder if the 'frequency' pot
> was accurate around its mechanical
> rotation ends..(?) Moog utilised
> Allen-Bradley pots at that time.
> Where they more 'linearity reliable'?
> I thought Spectrol type pots were
> just fine on that..

For the price they're pretty good.  But if you want better you need to spend more :)

> What do you think?

I think you're expecting a lot more from such pots.

Neil


--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk

-----------------------------------------
Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email
Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam



From greg at gregtronic.com  Tue May 13 22:55:35 2008
From: greg at gregtronic.com (Gregtronic)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:55:35 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Hohner Electronic Piano
Message-ID: <52B575E6-5A04-48A1-A52D-BB2D7EC27F2E@gregtronic.com>

Hey all.  I just got a Hohner International Electronic Piano.  It has  
two sounds which are piano and harpsichord which both sound cool  
especially when you mix them together.  Also it has a nice vibrato  
function which has control over the speed.  Of course the moment i  
got this, my mind starts wandering to cool ways i could mod this.  It  
would be great if i could access the filter(s) to add controls, the  
vibrato so i could adjust depth, and if i could modify the envelope.   
The first two mods would be simpler than the envelope mod.  Because  
the synth uses frequency dividers, there's an envelope for each  
individual note.  But i'm thinking if i could just got a constant  
sustain signal, i could use a volume pedal and have a pretty sweet  
string synth.  That, added with the controls for the filter and vibrato.

Of course, without the schematics i'm pretty much hopelessly lost at  
this point, as i have never even attempted to reverse engineer  
anything, so i'm saving that for my last possible choice.  Does  
anyone happen to know if there are schematics or a service manual  
around for these?  There's not much information on the internet as it  
is about these guys.  Also, are my mods even realistic/possible/worth  
it?  Any help or information anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

-Gregory


From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Tue May 13 23:44:48 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 17:44:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Wire Gauge Help
References: <33250A8E-F458-4552-8388-F8D832FF0A86@execpc.com>
Message-ID: <015201c8b542$93496970$0202a8c0@positronium>

18 ga wire such as you can find in typical "zip chord" power cords will more 
than suffice.

AA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sam Ecoff" <secoff at execpc.com>
To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 2:38 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Wire Gauge Help


> Hi Guys,
>
> Can anybody tell me what gauge of wire I want to use for handling  120V 
> lines into a power supply? I've read online that 14 ga is  typically used 
> for 15 amp circuits, but this is a 1.5 amp supply.  Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sam E.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Wed May 14 00:27:54 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 18:27:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] guessing HV power transformer's current capacity by its
	dimensions?
References: <69A22E2A-7CC0-41E6-BC3D-878C1392A353@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <015901c8b548$9839b290$0202a8c0@positronium>

I was wondering if you can somewhat accurately judge the current handling 
capability of a high-voltage power transformer by its size. I have a rather 
hefty transformer that was in a pice of test equipment that had a lot of 
tubes in it. The secondary doesn't have a center-tap and the rectifiers were 
solid state so I can't guess based on what the rectifier can handle (and the 
original solid state diodes are long lost). It has 2 filament windings, both 
without center-taps, one green which is visibly much stouter than the other, 
yellow one. Most of the tubes were 12AX7's , but there were 6BK7B's, 
12AT7's, 12AU7's, some acorns, a Nuvistor, various small pentodes, and 4 
EL84's working as current amps in the voltage regulated power supply.

The fact that it is using 4 EL84's in the power supply might signify that 
the xfrmr indeed handles a lot of current, but using an 0A2 and a 5651, 
would require current amplification if there was even modest demands on 
their current handling capability (which isn't great).

I guess it seems like folly to try to guess at it this way. I mean most of 
the space for the windings may be for the filament windings and the primary 
winding to go with them. But I think it would be an even greater folly if I 
was trying to judge something like a power transformer from a 'scope (which 
do work very well for other uses if you tuck the unneeded leads safely 
away...).

Why I'm even fussed about it is I'm trying to determine if this would be 
enough or too much transformer for powering 2 GA-5T Crestline circuits 
(2x2x6AQ5A push-pull) biased to run nearly 100% Class A on the same chassis.

It's about the size of a large-ish grapefruit or more like a smallish musk 
melon and weighs I'd say close to 10 lbs.

And I'm actually not so much worried about it not hadling enough current, 
but being wasted on a project that could make do with a smaller transformer 
and using it for an amp that puts out much more power, like something with 2 
6L6GT's or 2 EL34's...

AA 




From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Wed May 14 01:24:19 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 01:24:19 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] TEST (sorry)
Message-ID: <E719F353-F004-48C5-A4CD-A3A0D24B3241@blauwurf.info>

I'm sorry - I'm trying to find out why my messages don't (didn't) go  
through altough I do receive all your posts.
Thanks, Michael.




From jhaible at debitel.net  Wed May 14 01:35:45 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 01:35:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] And yet another String Filter demo
Message-ID: <000501c8b552$116d2350$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Short OB-8 arpeggiated strings
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_2008_3.mp3
1. Dry
2. 40-Band Filterbank and Cello-Filter breadboard circuit
3. Dry
4. 40-Band Filterbank only 

I've also published the frequency response plots for this now:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter.html

JH.


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed May 14 02:07:08 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 10:07:08 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] guessing HV power transformer's current capacity by
	itsdimensions?
In-Reply-To: <015901c8b548$9839b290$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <003901c8b556$743822b0$8501a8c0@ice9>

For transformers of similar construction, the total power capacity is
roughly proportional to the mass of the iron.
And the mass of the iron is roughly proportional to the total mass.

So if you can find a power transformer of known specifications, you can get
close enough, I think.

paul perry Melbourne Australia




From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Wed May 14 04:13:16 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:13:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] guessing HV power transformer's current capacity
	byitsdimensions?
References: <003901c8b556$743822b0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <017601c8b568$1426c310$0202a8c0@positronium>

That sounds fair. This thing looks as big as the power transformer in a 100 
watt Marshall.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Perry" <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:07 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] guessing HV power transformer's current capacity 
byitsdimensions?


> For transformers of similar construction, the total power capacity is
> roughly proportional to the mass of the iron.
> And the mass of the iron is roughly proportional to the total mass.
>
> So if you can find a power transformer of known specifications, you can 
> get
> close enough, I think.
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Wed May 14 06:59:04 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:59:04 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Hohner Electronic Piano
In-Reply-To: <52B575E6-5A04-48A1-A52D-BB2D7EC27F2E@gregtronic.com>
References: <52B575E6-5A04-48A1-A52D-BB2D7EC27F2E@gregtronic.com>
Message-ID: <482A7198.3000308@imt.net>

Thanks for the note on that.  I'll have to try to get one working some 
day.  I fixed the old Roland EP10 we got in the buyout from Tucson 
already and it was a pain.  120 of parts/labor on that one but it works 
great now.  Board was broken underneath, one coil was shot and lots of 
cleaning and some wood repair. 

Anyway we got a couple of the International Pianos and some other Hohner 
stuff.  Paul is going to keep the D6 so don't ask on that I guess :-).  
But the other stuff he might part with some of it if someone makes a 
reasonable offer. -Bob

Gregtronic wrote:

> Hey all.  I just got a Hohner International Electronic Piano.  It has  
> two sounds which are piano and harpsichord which both sound cool  
> especially when you mix them together.  Also it has a nice vibrato  
> function which has control over the speed.  Of course the moment i  
> got this, my mind starts wandering to cool ways i could mod this.  It  
> would be great if i could access the filter(s) to add controls, the  
> vibrato so i could adjust depth, and if i could modify the envelope.   
> The first two mods would be simpler than the envelope mod.  Because  
> the synth uses frequency dividers, there's an envelope for each  
> individual note.  But i'm thinking if i could just got a constant  
> sustain signal, i could use a volume pedal and have a pretty sweet  
> string synth.  That, added with the controls for the filter and vibrato.
>
> Of course, without the schematics i'm pretty much hopelessly lost at  
> this point, as i have never even attempted to reverse engineer  
> anything, so i'm saving that for my last possible choice.  Does  
> anyone happen to know if there are schematics or a service manual  
> around for these?  There's not much information on the internet as it  
> is about these guys.  Also, are my mods even realistic/possible/worth  
> it?  Any help or information anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Cheers!
>
> -Gregory
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Wed May 14 07:09:29 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 23:09:29 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] guessing HV power transformer's current capacity by its
	dimensions?
In-Reply-To: <015901c8b548$9839b290$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <69A22E2A-7CC0-41E6-BC3D-878C1392A353@shaw.ca>
	<015901c8b548$9839b290$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <482A7409.8000704@imt.net>

Usually dimensions are a rough way to tell but you can assess more by of 
course finding the guage of wire used in the windings if you can get it 
apart to peek.  Then use a milliohmeter or ohmeter as needed to measure 
the DC impedences of the coils.

Guages of the wires will tell you roughly how much current they can 
safely handle.  But of course if they are tightly wound you can also 
make estimates on how much heat in watts can be radiated at the top 
temperature you'd want to run the thing compounded by each layer's 
thermal conductivity limitation.  In other words it'll get hottest 
inside barring any really bad connections etc. :-)  -Bob

anthony wrote:

> I was wondering if you can somewhat accurately judge the current 
> handling capability of a high-voltage power transformer by its size. I 
> have a rather hefty transformer that was in a pice of test equipment 
> that had a lot of tubes in it. The secondary doesn't have a center-tap 
> and the rectifiers were solid state so I can't guess based on what the 
> rectifier can handle (and the original solid state diodes are long 
> lost). It has 2 filament windings, both without center-taps, one green 
> which is visibly much stouter than the other, yellow one. Most of the 
> tubes were 12AX7's , but there were 6BK7B's, 12AT7's, 12AU7's, some 
> acorns, a Nuvistor, various small pentodes, and 4 EL84's working as 
> current amps in the voltage regulated power supply.
>
> The fact that it is using 4 EL84's in the power supply might signify 
> that the xfrmr indeed handles a lot of current, but using an 0A2 and a 
> 5651, would require current amplification if there was even modest 
> demands on their current handling capability (which isn't great).
>
> I guess it seems like folly to try to guess at it this way. I mean 
> most of the space for the windings may be for the filament windings 
> and the primary winding to go with them. But I think it would be an 
> even greater folly if I was trying to judge something like a power 
> transformer from a 'scope (which do work very well for other uses if 
> you tuck the unneeded leads safely away...).
>
> Why I'm even fussed about it is I'm trying to determine if this would 
> be enough or too much transformer for powering 2 GA-5T Crestline 
> circuits (2x2x6AQ5A push-pull) biased to run nearly 100% Class A on 
> the same chassis.
>
> It's about the size of a large-ish grapefruit or more like a smallish 
> musk melon and weighs I'd say close to 10 lbs.
>
> And I'm actually not so much worried about it not hadling enough 
> current, but being wasted on a project that could make do with a 
> smaller transformer and using it for an amp that puts out much more 
> power, like something with 2 6L6GT's or 2 EL34's...
>
> AA
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Wed May 14 08:13:19 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 02:13:19 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] And yet another String Filter demo
In-Reply-To: <000501c8b552$116d2350$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <000501c8b552$116d2350$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <FE3BA197-C230-4894-BF27-01437E08C28A@ece.gatech.edu>

JH, are you going to post schematics of the String Filter? I am  
extremely curious about your most intriguing filter topology. (I  
understand if you want to withhold those to people who buy the circuit  
board - I'd buy the board just to see the schematic!)

- Aaron


From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Wed May 14 09:14:56 2008
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragon.servicing)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:14:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Hohner Electronic Piano
In-Reply-To: <52B575E6-5A04-48A1-A52D-BB2D7EC27F2E@gregtronic.com>
References: <52B575E6-5A04-48A1-A52D-BB2D7EC27F2E@gregtronic.com>
Message-ID: <482A9170.7020504@googlemail.com>

Hi,
I think that the idea of the design might be similar to the Crumar 
Compac Piano.
there was I think also a Hohner international  string machine ?
I think there is only one filter used for each sound over the whole 
keyboard.
an interesting piece of keyboard history.
regards Peter


Gregtronic wrote:
> Hey all.  I just got a Hohner International Electronic Piano.  It has 
> two sounds which are piano and harpsichord which both sound cool 
> especially when you mix them together.  Also it has a nice vibrato 
> function which has control over the speed.  Of course the moment i got 
> this, my mind starts wandering to cool ways i could mod this.  It would 
> be great if i could access the filter(s) to add controls, the vibrato so 
> i could adjust depth, and if i could modify the envelope.  The first two 
> mods would be simpler than the envelope mod.  Because the synth uses 
> frequency dividers, there's an envelope for each individual note.  But 
> i'm thinking if i could just got a constant sustain signal, i could use 
> a volume pedal and have a pretty sweet string synth.  That, added with 
> the controls for the filter and vibrato.
> 
> Of course, without the schematics i'm pretty much hopelessly lost at 
> this point, as i have never even attempted to reverse engineer anything, 
> so i'm saving that for my last possible choice.  Does anyone happen to 
> know if there are schematics or a service manual around for these?  
> There's not much information on the internet as it is about these guys.  
> Also, are my mods even realistic/possible/worth it?  Any help or 
> information anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Gregory
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Wed May 14 10:32:40 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 10:32:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Test (3rd time sorry!)
Message-ID: <F9FCB478-0F82-4995-A950-EA14AC2DD505@blauwurf.info>

Test after re-subscribing again.
    Thanks, Michael.


From buchi at allnet.de  Wed May 14 12:51:41 2008
From: buchi at allnet.de (Michael Buchstaller)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:51:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Test (3rd time sorry!)
In-Reply-To: <F9FCB478-0F82-4995-A950-EA14AC2DD505@blauwurf.info>
References: <F9FCB478-0F82-4995-A950-EA14AC2DD505@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <81hl24l4ppj2tdv1aeasi6eljfuoi2bsvs@4ax.com>

passed !

-Michael



From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.at  Wed May 14 13:50:08 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.at (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:50:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] TEST 6 (kindly ignore)
Message-ID: <E447900F-B407-441C-9824-5195A5F02E16@blauwurf.at>

just the 3rd test passed, the original message and all other tests  
failed. :-(


From daniel.araya at sr.se  Wed May 14 14:15:06 2008
From: daniel.araya at sr.se (Daniel Araya)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:15:06 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Roland SH5 schematics and slider?
Message-ID: <482AF3EA0200009A000066B5@rhcl03n02.sr.se>

Hi,

I have a battered old SH5 on the operating table and the schematic I found online miss a few pages (PSU, tuning and adjustment instructions) and has generally bad image quality on the schematics.
Does anybody have a better scanned copy?

The slider for S/H-rate is badly corroded, are there any sources for spares? Its a 500k A slider with about 35mm stroke.

Regards

/Daniel



From robert.lorentz at gmail.com  Wed May 14 15:46:17 2008
From: robert.lorentz at gmail.com (Robert Lorentz)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:46:17 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Buying: 2SC2291 and 2SC1583
Message-ID: <225813c30805140646p78d565a9o4cda9a59aeb1d099@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm looking for a few 2SC2291 (maybe 3-5?) and also some 2SC1583 (maybe 10-15?)

Anyone selling these for better than the lousey $20 a pop I am seeing?
 It would be greatly appreciated


Robert


From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed May 14 16:06:42 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (GRAHAM ATKINS)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 15:06:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Roland SH5 schematics and slider?
In-Reply-To: <482AF3EA0200009A000066B5@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
References: <482AF3EA0200009A000066B5@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
Message-ID: <E5738C0E-C2E6-419C-A03A-BBBDC12BD951@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi Daniel,

There is a seller who uses both EBAY.COM and EBAY.CO.UK called  
CHIPSFORBRAINS. He has
had a lot of Roland parts "Re-made" in the far east, he does rotary  
and linear pots, control knobs, switches,
IC's and other bits, often as kits for certain Roland models. I'm  
pretty sure he did some Roland System
100 (Not 100M) parts recently from about the same time as the SH5.  
Keep looking out, he seems to put
several lots up then goes away for a month or so. Worth a look.

Graham

On May 14, 2008, at 13:15, Daniel Araya wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a battered old SH5 on the operating table and the schematic I  
> found online miss a few pages (PSU, tuning and adjustment  
> instructions) and has generally bad image quality on the schematics.
> Does anybody have a better scanned copy?
>
> The slider for S/H-rate is badly corroded, are there any sources for  
> spares? Its a 500k A slider with about 35mm stroke.
>
> Regards
>
> /Daniel
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From flight at flightofharmony.com  Wed May 14 16:10:59 2008
From: flight at flightofharmony.com (koneill57)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 07:10:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] TEST (sorry)
In-Reply-To: <E719F353-F004-48C5-A4CD-A3A0D24B3241@blauwurf.info>
References: <E719F353-F004-48C5-A4CD-A3A0D24B3241@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <001d01c8b5cc$55dfdf30$019f9d90$@com>

I have had the same problem for years. I received fine, but could not send
- only one at most per day. I was sending through a Comcast.net account via
Microsoft Outlook, I think that was the problem. I could send fine if I went
online and e-mailed directly from my Comcast account.  I switched the
account I use for SDIY from Comcast to my web host ISP and have not had any
problems since.

Viel Gl?ck!

~flight

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Michael Zacherl
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:24 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] TEST (sorry)

I'm sorry - I'm trying to find out why my messages don't (didn't) go  
through altough I do receive all your posts.
Thanks, Michael.


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed May 14 16:13:30 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 00:13:30 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Buying: 2SC2291 and 2SC1583
In-Reply-To: <225813c30805140646p78d565a9o4cda9a59aeb1d099@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005801c8b5cc$b0294670$8501a8c0@ice9>

If you are making a Steiner filter, there are alternatives:
http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/STEINERVCF/index.html

Or maybe it is worth matching by hand.

paul perry Melbourne Australia




From recompas at gmail.com  Wed May 14 16:28:28 2008
From: recompas at gmail.com (Travis Thatcher)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 10:28:28 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Roland SH5 schematics and slider?
In-Reply-To: <E5738C0E-C2E6-419C-A03A-BBBDC12BD951@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <482AF3EA0200009A000066B5@rhcl03n02.sr.se>
	<E5738C0E-C2E6-419C-A03A-BBBDC12BD951@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <988b7c650805140728j6577d34ape110cb91a873c4be@mail.gmail.com>

I've gotten several CEM chips from CHIPSFORBRAINS and just ordered a
pitch bender for my sh101 off him.  He's pretty fast on shipping, and
everything has arrived as advertised.  He usually has a lot of stuff.

-travis

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM, GRAHAM ATKINS
<gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> There is a seller who uses both EBAY.COM and EBAY.CO.UK called
> CHIPSFORBRAINS. He has
> had a lot of Roland parts "Re-made" in the far east, he does rotary and
> linear pots, control knobs, switches,
> IC's and other bits, often as kits for certain Roland models. I'm pretty
> sure he did some Roland System
> 100 (Not 100M) parts recently from about the same time as the SH5. Keep
> looking out, he seems to put
> several lots up then goes away for a month or so. Worth a look.
>
> Graham
>
> On May 14, 2008, at 13:15, Daniel Araya wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a battered old SH5 on the operating table and the schematic I found
>> online miss a few pages (PSU, tuning and adjustment instructions) and has
>> generally bad image quality on the schematics.
>> Does anybody have a better scanned copy?
>>
>> The slider for S/H-rate is badly corroded, are there any sources for
>> spares? Its a 500k A slider with about 35mm stroke.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> /Daniel
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
http://www.judichicago.com
http://www.myspace.com/judichicago
http://www.recompas.com
http://voiceofsaturn.blogspot.com


From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 14 17:32:18 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 16:32:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TEST (sorry)
In-Reply-To: <001d01c8b5cc$55dfdf30$019f9d90$@com>
References: <E719F353-F004-48C5-A4CD-A3A0D24B3241@blauwurf.info>
	<001d01c8b5cc$55dfdf30$019f9d90$@com>
Message-ID: <9FB07A01-0181-4DB8-9933-3AD6CA6CBDAD@electricdruid.net>


On 14 May 2008, at 15:10, koneill57 wrote:

> I have had the same problem for years. I received fine, but could  
> not send
> - only one at most per day. I was sending through a Comcast.net  
> account via
> Microsoft Outlook, I think that was the problem. I could send fine  
> if I went
> online and e-mailed directly from my Comcast account.  I switched the
> account I use for SDIY from Comcast to my web host ISP and have not  
> had any
> problems since.


Another problem I had when I started out was that the Synth DIY  
server strips attachments and other non-text content, so you're  
probably better off sending plain text messages rather than anything  
more fancy. Since then I've stuck to just plain text and haven't had  
any problems I can attribute to the list.


T.





From robert.lorentz at gmail.com  Wed May 14 18:19:57 2008
From: robert.lorentz at gmail.com (Robert Lorentz)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:19:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Buying: 2SC2291 and 2SC1583
In-Reply-To: <225813c30805140646p78d565a9o4cda9a59aeb1d099@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225813c30805140646p78d565a9o4cda9a59aeb1d099@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <225813c30805140919n3eec9c9fq21e7b343d5e4dde8@mail.gmail.com>

Big thanks to everyone who responded, I'm totally sorted out.

Robert

On 5/14/08, Robert Lorentz <robert.lorentz at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a few 2SC2291 (maybe 3-5?) and also some 2SC1583 (maybe 10-15?)
>
> Anyone selling these for better than the lousey $20 a pop I am seeing?
>  It would be greatly appreciated
>
>
> Robert
>


From somnium7 at gmail.com  Wed May 14 18:48:03 2008
From: somnium7 at gmail.com (mike ruberto)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:48:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 80017A in JX3P?
Message-ID: <916920440805140948t642053a4y710fe1b17f13297a@mail.gmail.com>

Does the JX3P also use this chip in it's voices?

Would anybody happen to have the schematics?

This isn't for a repair job, I'm helping out a friend who's begun
fixing his own synths. I think I inspired him to do it so I'm kinda
obligated to help out now ;-)

Thanks

Mike


From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Wed May 14 19:31:02 2008
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 19:31:02 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 80017A in JX3P?
In-Reply-To: <916920440805140948t642053a4y710fe1b17f13297a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <916920440805140948t642053a4y710fe1b17f13297a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <482B21D6.5090608@consol.de>


Hi mike


> Does the JX3P also use this chip in it's voices?
No.

> 
> Would anybody happen to have the schematics?
Hmm, somehow your google must be broken - mine shows as third hit:

Homepage Florian Anwander - JX-3P Schematics
You are here: home -> synthesizer/studio -> JX-3P Index ->Schematics. 
Roland JX-3P - Schematics. The original of this scans is a copy of a 
copy of a copy, ...
fa.utfs.org/diy/jx3p/jx3p_schem.htm - 4k - Cached - Similar pages

All the best, Florian


From nicksdsu at mac.com  Wed May 14 20:08:16 2008
From: nicksdsu at mac.com (Nicholas Gregorich)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 11:08:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 80017A in JX3P?
In-Reply-To: <916920440805140948t642053a4y710fe1b17f13297a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <916920440805140948t642053a4y710fe1b17f13297a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <482B2A90.3020809@mac.com>

mike ruberto wrote:
> Does the JX3P also use this chip in it's voices?
> 
> Would anybody happen to have the schematics?
> 

The JX3P does not use the 80017a chips like the MKS-30. The schematics 
are available:

http://fa.utfs.org/diy/jx3p/jx3p_schem.htm

Nick.


From somnium7 at gmail.com  Wed May 14 20:12:42 2008
From: somnium7 at gmail.com (mike ruberto)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:12:42 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 80017A in JX3P?
In-Reply-To: <482B2A90.3020809@mac.com>
References: <916920440805140948t642053a4y710fe1b17f13297a@mail.gmail.com>
	<482B2A90.3020809@mac.com>
Message-ID: <916920440805141112n32b34515i234cdc73819b858@mail.gmail.com>

Ok great! Thank you very much for helping us out.

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Nicholas Gregorich <nicksdsu at mac.com> wrote:
> mike ruberto wrote:
>>
>> Does the JX3P also use this chip in it's voices?
>>
>> Would anybody happen to have the schematics?
>>
>
> The JX3P does not use the 80017a chips like the MKS-30. The schematics are
> available:
>
> http://fa.utfs.org/diy/jx3p/jx3p_schem.htm
>
> Nick.
>


From gil_we at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 20:51:00 2008
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 11:51:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Parting out Matrix 6 and Prophet 2000
Message-ID: <779707.41194.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Anyone need anything ?


      


From altitude at optrand.com  Wed May 14 20:55:33 2008
From: altitude at optrand.com (Altitude)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:55:33 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Switching combo wall warts
In-Reply-To: <916920440805140948t642053a4y710fe1b17f13297a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <916920440805140948t642053a4y710fe1b17f13297a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <031701c8b5f4$17763690$6701a8c0@optrand.com>

I have an application where I need +/-15V for the analog side and +5 for a
pic based midi trigger and I came across a switching wall wart that has all
that I need. The one I am looking at has 160 mA on the 15 volt rails and 3A
on the 5 so I take that to mean that only the 5V is the switcher and the
other rails are just standard. I know that switching supplies tend to be
noisy so would this be usable or would a 7805 off of a +/-15V adapter be a
better choice?

Cheers,
Alt



From jason at redfish.net  Wed May 14 21:05:50 2008
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:05:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] kinda interesting audio arduino thing
Message-ID: <a0620072ec4503f4dc224@[10.0.1.201]>

http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2008/05/new-kit-wave-shield-for-arduino-plays-high-quality-audio/

i wonder whether the software supports playing the files at different 
speeds. hooked up with a voltage input on an analogue pin...



From gene at ixiacom.com  Wed May 14 22:13:31 2008
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:13:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Parting out Matrix 6 and Prophet 2000
In-Reply-To: <779707.41194.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <779707.41194.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0A2F39512D881F4690CF73625E4161F53CA4E1@IXCA-EXCHANGE.ixiacom.com>

Does the Matrix 6 have the same keyboard assembly as the Oberheim XK
midi controller? I need a couple of octaves.


- Gene
 

Anyone need anything ?


      
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Wed May 14 22:40:59 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 22:40:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 216 Knobs or: huge modular project completed
In-Reply-To: <000901c8b1be$c0c83cf0$6f5f194d@ww901.siemens.net>
References: <000901c8b1be$c0c83cf0$6f5f194d@ww901.siemens.net>
Message-ID: <200805142240.59332.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Freitag 09 Mai 2008, Carsten T?nsmann wrote:
> yeah, it's done. Please see http://www.analog-monster.de for detailed
> project description including pics, module descriptions, sounds /
> tracks and circuit diagrams.

Don't use a ripple counter for the octave divider... a '4520 (?0.30 from 
www.segor.de) would give you the same function twice and without all 
that glitching apparent in your oscillograms.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs




From dave at westphila.net  Wed May 14 23:24:07 2008
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:24:07 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Korg Lambda envelope
Message-ID: <482B5877.2010109@westphila.net>

Tried this on AH after a discussion of the Korg Lambda with no response:

Can someone explain the action of the AR Ensemble envelope generator 
circuits found in lambda_es50_02.gif of the schematics found on this 
site?  Can't quite figure out what's happening there.

Dave

Here's the link to the schematics:

http://www.carbon111.com/lambda/lambda_schematics.zip


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Wed May 14 23:44:01 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 15:44:01 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Parting out Matrix 6 and Prophet 2000
In-Reply-To: <0A2F39512D881F4690CF73625E4161F53CA4E1@IXCA-EXCHANGE.ixiacom.com>
References: <779707.41194.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<0A2F39512D881F4690CF73625E4161F53CA4E1@IXCA-EXCHANGE.ixiacom.com>
Message-ID: <482B5D21.9000507@imt.net>

Gene, are you aware of my sounddoctorin.com page?  You might want to 
check the logical links there and note what else fits the matrix 6.  Is 
it a good Matrix 6?  The Kawai K3 keys ...one of those Kawai is OUT of 
which is a bummer.  Heating can allow you to remove the key weights if 
you are careful on those.  But keys aren't real cheap these days... but 
I'm not sure what the XK uses.  Not familiar with that unit.  If you 
have a key OUT on it my page could save you some time comparing pics to 
the keys.  Take global synth help link etc. you'll get it.

Gene Stopp wrote:

>Does the Matrix 6 have the same keyboard assembly as the Oberheim XK
>midi controller? I need a couple of octaves.
>
>
>- Gene
> 
>
>Anyone need anything ?
>
>
>      
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From mr at analogue.org  Wed May 14 23:54:21 2008
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 23:54:21 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 216 Knobs or: huge modular project completed
In-Reply-To: <000901c8b1be$c0c83cf0$6f5f194d@ww901.siemens.net>
References: <000901c8b1be$c0c83cf0$6f5f194d@ww901.siemens.net>
Message-ID: <1f4a82040805141454u22c65be0n409c49c5a3d77d33@mail.gmail.com>

2008/5/9 Carsten T?nsmann <carsten at analog-monster.de>:
>
> yeah, it's done. Please see http://www.analog-monster.de

Good work.

But are you sure it's analog?
The entry pictures are alias distorted *twice* - first in the image
processing program's resizing, then in the browser resizing. Spiced up
with some JPG artifacts in between.

Personally I'm quite sure it's just a hidden Windows machine inside a
mock-up modular shell. Why? It has Arial all over...

  http://www.mimeartist.com/helvetica/


/mr  :-)



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu May 15 00:03:40 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 16:03:40 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Korg Lambda envelope
In-Reply-To: <482B5877.2010109@westphila.net>
References: <482B5877.2010109@westphila.net>
Message-ID: <482B61BC.7040507@imt.net>

These are like the envelopes on typical string machines.  Capacitors 
resistors and diodes form a network that uses a control voltage set by 
the panel controls to charge/discharge individual note's divider 
networks as they are triggered. The Lambda uses 9 of the big chips as 
opposed to the three used in the Delta.  Delta also has poly 
attack/release on the string section.  However there is one dedicated 
envelope for the synth section making it paraphonic on that half of 
things.  Lambda has separate networks for the percussion, and two part 
ensemble as I recall.  My schematics suck.  I'm going to download the 
fdisk one pointed to on my page and see if it's any clearer.  MIssing 
traces to puzzle together in parts on my drawings I bought from someone 
years ago.  -Bob

David Moylan wrote:

> Tried this on AH after a discussion of the Korg Lambda with no response:
>
> Can someone explain the action of the AR Ensemble envelope generator 
> circuits found in lambda_es50_02.gif of the schematics found on this 
> site?  Can't quite figure out what's happening there.
>
> Dave
>
> Here's the link to the schematics:
>
> http://www.carbon111.com/lambda/lambda_schematics.zip
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From gene at ixiacom.com  Thu May 15 00:09:55 2008
From: gene at ixiacom.com (Gene Stopp)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 15:09:55 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Parting out Matrix 6 and Prophet 2000
In-Reply-To: <482B5D21.9000507@imt.net>
References: <779707.41194.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<0A2F39512D881F4690CF73625E4161F53CA4E1@IXCA-EXCHANGE.ixiacom.com>
	<482B5D21.9000507@imt.net>
Message-ID: <0A2F39512D881F4690CF73625E4161F53CA524@IXCA-EXCHANGE.ixiacom.com>

Bob, I have not and am eager to look!

I have one XK that fell victim to the '94 Northridge quake, which I
fixed up by grafting Pratt/Read keys fronts, but it's not cosmetically
perfect. Then I loaned another one to an Alex Carpani tour, without a
flight case (serves me right I guess). So between the two of them I'm
feeling the need to find a source of XK keys.

I have spare keys of the common ones (Panasonic, Pratt/Read) but the XK
is a strange one. The OB-8 uses Panasonic, but the Matrix 6 is more of
the same period as the XK.

- Gene
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Weigel [mailto:sounddoctorin at imt.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 2:44 PM
To: Gene Stopp; synthdiy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Parting out Matrix 6 and Prophet 2000

Gene, are you aware of my sounddoctorin.com page?  You might want to 
check the logical links there and note what else fits the matrix 6.  Is 
it a good Matrix 6?  The Kawai K3 keys ...one of those Kawai is OUT of 
which is a bummer.  Heating can allow you to remove the key weights if 
you are careful on those.  But keys aren't real cheap these days... but 
I'm not sure what the XK uses.  Not familiar with that unit.  If you 
have a key OUT on it my page could save you some time comparing pics to 
the keys.  Take global synth help link etc. you'll get it.

Gene Stopp wrote:

>Does the Matrix 6 have the same keyboard assembly as the Oberheim XK
>midi controller? I need a couple of octaves.
>
>
>- Gene
> 
>
>Anyone need anything ?
>
>
>      
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>



From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Thu May 15 00:53:32 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 00:53:32 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] test #12 <kindly ignore>
Message-ID: <29996AE1-345A-4AEF-A74F-EF3EE097596F@blauwurf.info>

trying a different mail server.


From rtellason at verizon.net  Thu May 15 00:55:32 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:55:32 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Switching combo wall warts
In-Reply-To: <031701c8b5f4$17763690$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
References: <916920440805140948t642053a4y710fe1b17f13297a@mail.gmail.com>
	<031701c8b5f4$17763690$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
Message-ID: <200805141855.32324.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 14 May 2008 14:55, Altitude wrote:
> I have an application where I need +/-15V for the analog side and +5 for a
> pic based midi trigger and I came across a switching wall wart that has all
> that I need. The one I am looking at has 160 mA on the 15 volt rails and 3A
> on the 5 so I take that to mean that only the 5V is the switcher and the
> other rails are just standard.

This is not necessarily a good assumption...

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Thu May 15 01:03:21 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 23:03:21 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [sdiy] TEST 6 (kindly ignore)
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80805140526r1f8b1872u20eaf8d2a892ebbc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E447900F-B407-441C-9824-5195A5F02E16@blauwurf.at>
	<fa1b0bd80805140526r1f8b1872u20eaf8d2a892ebbc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60980.85.127.80.78.1210806201.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>

Hi Samppa, thanks a lot! ;-) Michael.

> Not ignoring ;)
>
> On 5/14/08, Michael Zacherl <sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.at> wrote:
>> just the 3rd test passed, the original message and all other tests
>> failed.
>> :-(
>
> This message and the one where Buchi replied came thru, but also
> earlier one with
>
> Message-Id: <F9FCB478-0F82-4995-A950-EA14AC2DD505 at blauwurf.info>
> From: Michael Zacherl <sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info>
> ...
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 01:24:19 +0200
> ...
> Samppa
>




From mikebeauchamp at gmail.com  Thu May 15 01:03:22 2008
From: mikebeauchamp at gmail.com (Mike Beauchamp)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:03:22 +1200
Subject: [sdiy] kinda interesting audio arduino thing
In-Reply-To: <a0620072ec4503f4dc224@10.0.1.201>
References: <a0620072ec4503f4dc224@10.0.1.201>
Message-ID: <6110e6230805141603nbc3b85fp744a821b70a37cdf@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, interesting idea... I saw the "wave shield" a few days ago and
couldn't really think of a use for it. But, this is definitely an
interesting one!

On the page, she says "Then it sets up the audio interrupt that will
go off sample-rate times a second. For example, if its a 22KHz audio
sample, the interrupt will go off 22,000 times a second!"

My uneducated guess is that changing this rate should be possible, and
could also be associated with one of the analog-input pins of the
arduino. Maybe email ladyada directly and request that this option be
added to the code library... seems like it might open up some
possibilities!

Mike



On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net> wrote:
> http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2008/05/new-kit-wave-shield-for-arduino-plays-high-quality-audio/
>
> i wonder whether the software supports playing the files at different
> speeds. hooked up with a voltage input on an analogue pin...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
Mike Beauchamp
m: +64 21 0238 4145
h: +64 4 801 8304
http://mikebeauchamp.com
http://therevox.com


From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Thu May 15 01:24:02 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 23:24:02 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [sdiy] TEST - thanks!
Message-ID: <61239.85.127.80.78.1210807442.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>

Hi All,

     thanks for your patience and help!!

I'm almost about to give up.
I tried four different posting mail servers now and I don't get through. :-(

Either I'll switch to webmail (yuk!) or I find a smtp host which is
accepted by dropmix ... eventually.

   Michael.  (re-sent via webmail)


On May 14, 2008, at 5:32 PM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

On 14 May 2008, at 15:10, koneill57 wrote:

I have had the same problem for years. I received fine, but could not send
- only one at most per day. I was sending through a Comcast.net account via
Microsoft Outlook, I think that was the problem. I could send fine if I went
online and e-mailed directly from my Comcast account.  I switched the
account I use for SDIY from Comcast to my web host ISP and have not had any
problems since.


Another problem I had when I started out was that the Synth DIY server
strips attachments and other non-text content, so you're probably better
off sending plain text messages rather than anything more fancy. Since
then I've stuck to just plain text and haven't had any problems I can
attribute to the list.


T.

On May 14, 2008, at 2:52 PM, Michael Buchstaller wrote:
  danke!  Nur der 4. und 5. und die eigentliche Nachricht kam nicht
durch.

seltsam. #6 seh ich aber wieder in der Liste...

-Michael


On May 14, 2008, at 4:10 PM, koneill57 wrote:

I have had the same problem for years. I received fine, but could not send
- only one at most per day. I was sending through a Comcast.net account via
Microsoft Outlook, I think that was the problem. I could send fine if I went
online and e-mailed directly from my Comcast account.  I switched the
account I use for SDIY from Comcast to my web host ISP and have not had any
problems since.

Viel Gl?ck!

~flight

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Michael Zacherl
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:24 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] TEST (sorry)




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May 15 02:00:26 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:00:26 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Korg Lambda envelope
In-Reply-To: <482B61BC.7040507@imt.net>
Message-ID: <000301c8b61e$af1b1180$8501a8c0@ice9>

This has nothing to do with the present case, but.. it occurs to me that in
the case of audio frequency square waves, you could modulate the amplitude
with a simple diode 'minimum' circuit.

Could be useful somewhere sometime.

paul perry Melbouurne Australia




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May 15 02:21:10 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:21:10 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] EMS mentioned in EDN!
In-Reply-To: <482B61BC.7040507@imt.net>
Message-ID: <000701c8b621$95800430$8501a8c0@ice9>

http://www.edn.com/article/CA6343249.html#ref

Article on capacitive switches..

Paul perry Melbourne Australia



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Thu May 15 02:40:13 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 02:40:13 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] EMS mentioned in EDN!
In-Reply-To: <000701c8b621$95800430$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <482B61BC.7040507@imt.net>
	<000701c8b621$95800430$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <20080515.024013.486123477578434940.cfmd@bredband.net>

From: "Paul Perry" <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
Subject: [sdiy] EMS mentioned in EDN!
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:21:10 +1000
Message-ID: <000701c8b621$95800430$8501a8c0 at ice9>

> http://www.edn.com/article/CA6343249.html#ref
> 
> Article on capacitive switches..

Infact, the KS is nothing but a very clever use of digital gates analog
property turned into an addressable capacitance meter. The EMS service manual
is a very interesting reading once you get over there... the transpose buttons
is another very clevery use.

There is only one real flaw with the KS. The use of old memories.
Then of course, we could use some of the modern features as editing... but
details, details... :)

Cheers,
Magnus


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Thu May 15 02:47:02 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:47:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] EMS mentioned in EDN!
In-Reply-To: <000701c8b621$95800430$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <000701c8b621$95800430$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <482B8806.60200@sonic.net>

Paul Perry wrote:
> http://www.edn.com/article/CA6343249.html#ref
> 
> Article on capacitive switches..
> 

Shows the value of online documentation!  EMS gets a mention but Serge 
and Buchla are out in the cold.

Thanks for the article, I wasn't aware of some of these parts.

-Dave



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May 15 02:48:15 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:48:15 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Switching combo wall warts
In-Reply-To: <031701c8b5f4$17763690$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
Message-ID: <002301c8b625$5c7e10b0$8501a8c0@ice9>

I can't say without knowing your current requirements, but I do this:

Take 16V AC, one side to ground, other side to + ands = half wave rectifiers
& electros.

Then hang +15, -15, and +5 regs off them.
Hang the +5 off the raw +, not the output of the +15.

There are enough switchers around already these days...

paul perry Melbourne australia



From dave at westphila.net  Thu May 15 02:52:38 2008
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:52:38 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Korg Lambda envelope
In-Reply-To: <000301c8b61e$af1b1180$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <000301c8b61e$af1b1180$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <482B8956.1010101@westphila.net>

What I'm talking about is the envelope generation not the VCA section, 
that's taken care of elsewhere in a chip.  The envelopes (per key) use a 
global Attack and Release setting.  It's a strange topology with 
reversed diodes and I can't quite figure out how to decode it.  I think 
the diode resistance is being modulated

Have a look.

Dave

Paul Perry wrote:
> This has nothing to do with the present case, but.. it occurs to me that in
> the case of audio frequency square waves, you could modulate the amplitude
> with a simple diode 'minimum' circuit.
> 
> Could be useful somewhere sometime.
> 
> paul perry Melbouurne Australia
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From alfred.pear at gmail.com  Thu May 15 05:30:53 2008
From: alfred.pear at gmail.com (alfred.pear at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 23:30:53 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] ElectroNotes substitutions
Message-ID: <ea992b2f0805142030y46911997g55491c4641d20b2f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi -

I've been reviewing the ElectroNotes C.V. applications and wanted to
ask people about what they substitute the AD821 matched transistors
with. I'm specifically looking at the VCF Option 1, and it seems to
serve the purpose of a buffer, so I'm thinking about just using an Op
Amp instead... However, there are two separate terminal ouputs used
that are directed to two different OTAs.
Can I use a single op-amp ouput for the same effect?

Perhaps more efficiently: Does anyone know of any modernized versions
of these schematics, with more readily available materials?

Thanks,
Alfred


From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Thu May 15 06:59:36 2008
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:59:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] ElectroNotes substitutions
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0805142030y46911997g55491c4641d20b2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea992b2f0805142030y46911997g55491c4641d20b2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <482BC338.9060806@ix.netcom.com>

alfred.pear at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi -
> 
> I've been reviewing the ElectroNotes C.V. applications and wanted to
> ask people about what they substitute the AD821 matched transistors
> with. I'm specifically looking at the VCF Option 1, and it seems to
> serve the purpose of a buffer, so I'm thinking about just using an Op
> Amp instead... However, there are two separate terminal ouputs used
> that are directed to two different OTAs.
> Can I use a single op-amp ouput for the same effect?
> 
> Perhaps more efficiently: Does anyone know of any modernized versions
> of these schematics, with more readily available materials?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alfred
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


Hi Alfred,

As for the AD821 transistors, they serve as a two-output current source 
to drive each of the CA3080s.
There are a few modern matched PNP transistor alternatives out there you 
can use. One is the MAT03 (which is a bit expensive).
In a pinch, you can use two 2N3906s in place of the AD821 to test the 
filter and get it working.

Best of luck with the filter!
- Oren (Trying to get into some SDIY after a two year hiatus)


From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Thu May 15 08:31:37 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 06:31:37 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [sdiy] And yet another String Filter demo
In-Reply-To: <000501c8b552$116d2350$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <000501c8b552$116d2350$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <64449.85.127.80.78.1210833097.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>


YES!  :-)

<    Filter Bank and Equalisation options
<
<    The Filter Bank part creates a lot of equally distributed resonance
<    peaks - this is responsibel for the "woody" character:
<
<
<    That's the part that is common to all string instruments, more or
<    less.
<
<    (Board 1 + 2, what I'm taking preorders for now.)
<
<    The resonance control changes the height of the peaks vs. valleys for
<    all peaks in common.
<
<    The Equalisation emulates the frequency response due to body size
<    (dimensions of the wooden body and volume of air, plus dimensions of
<    the bridge). This is different for each instrument. The picture here
<    s the equalisation I'm using for a Cello. This, and similar EQs for
<    other instruments, will be on Board 3 (not specified yet).
<
<    Boards 1 + 2 are designed such that you can also connect 40
<    potentiometers to get a fully variable 40-band filterbank. :)
<
<    If you do this (40 sliders anybody?), you don't need any extra EQing -
<    you can simply draw the courves with the slider position.
<
<    But I think a 40-slider filterbank is not for the faint of heart ... I
<    just wanted to mention it. :)
<
<    Part of the standard implementation, however: 4 toggle switches to
<    thake out every fourth resonant peak (or 2 out of 4, or 3 out of 4),
<    for special effects.

Source: http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter.html

  :-) Michael.





From c0r3dump23 at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 09:48:42 2008
From: c0r3dump23 at yahoo.com (Metrophage)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 00:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] ElectroNotes substitutions
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0805142030y46911997g55491c4641d20b2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <314777.78061.qm@web63908.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi Alfred - 

PNP substitutes for the AD821? For crucial applications these days
people tend to use either MAT03, SSM2220, or THAT320. For
not-as-crucial matching, maybe 2SA1349 or 2SA798.

If you're talking about "ENS-76 VCF Option 1" then the matched PNP pair
form a basic exponential converter. Bernie even says that if pitch
accuracy is not a concern, that two 2N3906s will do. I'd use a 2SA1349.

--- alfred.pear at gmail.com wrote:

> Hi -
> 
> I've been reviewing the ElectroNotes C.V. applications and wanted to
> ask people about what they substitute the AD821 matched transistors
> with. I'm specifically looking at the VCF Option 1, and it seems to
> serve the purpose of a buffer, so I'm thinking about just using an Op
> Amp instead... However, there are two separate terminal ouputs used
> that are directed to two different OTAs.
> Can I use a single op-amp ouput for the same effect?
> 
> Perhaps more efficiently: Does anyone know of any modernized versions
> of these schematics, with more readily available materials?
> 
> Thanks,
> Alfred
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



      


From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Thu May 15 14:03:15 2008
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:03:15 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Korg Lambda envelope
In-Reply-To: <482B8956.1010101@westphila.net>
References: <000301c8b61e$af1b1180$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<482B8956.1010101@westphila.net>
Message-ID: <482C2683.505@consol.de>

Hi

I am not too deep in that kind of circuitry, but as far as I understand 
it works like the following (all the gurus: please correct me if I am 
wrong):

Lets take the most upper key in this diagram. As long as the input of 
the gate/divider chip is +V the corresponding note is off. A keypress 
enables a connection via R8 and the transistor (on on the left side of 
the diagram) to -V. This causes a (negative) voltage at R12 and 
following on the Gate-Chip, with the consequence, that the note is on. 
The rise of this voltage is depending on the loading of C11. This 
loading can be slowed down, by a partial current flowing over to the 
attack bus which depends on the setting of the attack pot.
If you release the key again then the capacitor will be unloaded again 
via a current over the release bus which depends on the setting of the 
release pot.

All the best, Florian


David Moylan wrote:

> What I'm talking about is the envelope generation not the VCA section, 
> that's taken care of elsewhere in a chip.  The envelopes (per key) use a 
> global Attack and Release setting.  It's a strange topology with 
> reversed diodes and I can't quite figure out how to decode it.  I think 
> the diode resistance is being modulated
> 
> Have a look.
> 
> Dave
> 
> Paul Perry wrote:
> 
>> This has nothing to do with the present case, but.. it occurs to me 
>> that in
>> the case of audio frequency square waves, you could modulate the 
>> amplitude
>> with a simple diode 'minimum' circuit.
>>
>> Could be useful somewhere sometime.
>>
>> paul perry Melbouurne Australia
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From dave at westphila.net  Thu May 15 15:14:01 2008
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:14:01 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Korg Lambda envelope
In-Reply-To: <482C2683.505@consol.de>
References: <000301c8b61e$af1b1180$8501a8c0@ice9>	<482B8956.1010101@westphila.net>
	<482C2683.505@consol.de>
Message-ID: <482C3719.7090704@westphila.net>

Ah, this makes some sense, I'm used to thinking of positive envelopes. 
So D102 is the drainage path for the cap but when the key is up D101 is 
forward biased and D102 is then off. And similarly if the key is down 
D103 is biased on turning off D104 (or stealing current depending on 
your perspective) and it's path.

So the attack and release controls...  They're just voltages, right.  If 
the Attack is set really low (which I think would be faster) and we 
press a key we have a discharge of the cap through R11.  If the Attack 
is set high then we have the discharge path but only until the voltage 
on the cap is a diode drop above the attack voltage right?  Then the 
only path is through R12.  It is safe to say that the attack and release 
are each 2 stages with the tails having a set time constant dominated by 
R12/C11?

Thanks.

Dave




Florian Anwander wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I am not too deep in that kind of circuitry, but as far as I understand 
> it works like the following (all the gurus: please correct me if I am 
> wrong):
> 
> Lets take the most upper key in this diagram. As long as the input of 
> the gate/divider chip is +V the corresponding note is off. A keypress 
> enables a connection via R8 and the transistor (on on the left side of 
> the diagram) to -V. This causes a (negative) voltage at R12 and 
> following on the Gate-Chip, with the consequence, that the note is on. 
> The rise of this voltage is depending on the loading of C11. This 
> loading can be slowed down, by a partial current flowing over to the 
> attack bus which depends on the setting of the attack pot.
> If you release the key again then the capacitor will be unloaded again 
> via a current over the release bus which depends on the setting of the 
> release pot.
> 
> All the best, Florian
> 
> 
> David Moylan wrote:
> 
>> What I'm talking about is the envelope generation not the VCA section, 
>> that's taken care of elsewhere in a chip.  The envelopes (per key) use 
>> a global Attack and Release setting.  It's a strange topology with 
>> reversed diodes and I can't quite figure out how to decode it.  I 
>> think the diode resistance is being modulated
>>
>> Have a look.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Paul Perry wrote:
>>
>>> This has nothing to do with the present case, but.. it occurs to me 
>>> that in
>>> the case of audio frequency square waves, you could modulate the 
>>> amplitude
>>> with a simple diode 'minimum' circuit.
>>>
>>> Could be useful somewhere sometime.
>>>
>>> paul perry Melbouurne Australia
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Thu May 15 20:39:03 2008
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (Mike I)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:39:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Hitachi HD63B03XF microcontroller pinout ??
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>

Anyone have the pinout for this Hitachi micro?  This is the flat-pack
version of the chip. The pdf file from datasheetarchive is corrupted and
doesn't open (and the same corrupted file seems to have found it's way onto
many other websites).
M.



From hondareyte.luc at laposte.net  Thu May 15 21:33:29 2008
From: hondareyte.luc at laposte.net (Luc Hondareyte)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:33:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Hitachi HD63B03XF microcontroller pinout ??
In-Reply-To: <000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>
	<000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>
Message-ID: <1210880009.6693.6.camel@casper.acme>

Le jeudi 15 mai 2008 ? 14:39 -0400, Mike I a ?crit :
> Anyone have the pinout for this Hitachi micro?  This is the flat-pack
> version of the chip. The pdf file from datasheetarchive is corrupted and
> doesn't open (and the same corrupted file seems to have found it's way onto
> many other websites).
> M.
> 
Hello,

hum, I have no problem to open the pdf file from datasheetarchives
(http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1550862.pdf). I use a very basic
pdf viewer (evince).

Regards,
Luc



From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu May 15 21:47:01 2008
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:47:01 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Hitachi HD63B03XF microcontroller pinout ??
In-Reply-To: <000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>,
	<000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A4E1AF68406@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>


>Anyone have the pinout for this Hitachi micro?  This is the flat-pack
>version of the chip. The pdf file from datasheetarchive is corrupted and
>doesn't open (and the same corrupted file seems to have found it's way onto
>many other websites).

The datasheet is not corrupted but I am quite sure that you are using a quite old Adobe Acrobat Reader.
When I use the old Acrobat 4.0 I have the same version. Use Acrobat Reader 6.0 or higher and you can open it!

Ciao
Peter



From jvastine at charter.net  Thu May 15 21:47:12 2008
From: jvastine at charter.net (jvastine)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 15:47:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Hitachi HD63B03XF microcontroller pinout ??
In-Reply-To: <1210880009.6693.6.camel@casper.acme>
Message-ID: <20080515154712.MRJ40.449613.root@fepweb07>

I find that interesting, because when I clicked upon the link I received a message stating that the page has been moved. 

---- Luc Hondareyte <hondareyte.luc at laposte.net> wrote: 
Le jeudi 15 mai 2008 ? 14:39 -0400, Mike I a ?crit :
> Anyone have the pinout for this Hitachi micro?  This is the flat-pack
> version of the chip. The pdf file from datasheetarchive is corrupted and
> doesn't open (and the same corrupted file seems to have found it's way onto
> many other websites).
> M.
> 
Hello,

hum, I have no problem to open the pdf file from datasheetarchives
(http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1550862.pdf). I use a very basic
pdf viewer (evince).

Regards,
Luc

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu May 15 21:57:51 2008
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:57:51 +0200
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Hitachi HD63B03XF microcontroller pinout ??
In-Reply-To: <20080515154712.MRJ40.449613.root@fepweb07>
References: <1210880009.6693.6.camel@casper.acme>,
	<20080515154712.MRJ40.449613.root@fepweb07>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A4E1AF68407@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>


Interesting. I tried a few seconds ago and it was here...
I had a look at it with Acobat Reader 7.0.
Then I opened it with Acrobat 4.0 and got an error... Just as I wrote in my last email...

Ciao
Peter

________________________________________
Von: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] im Auftrag von jvastine [jvastine at charter.net]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Mai 2008 21:47
An: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Hitachi HD63B03XF microcontroller pinout ??

I find that interesting, because when I clicked upon the link I received a message stating that the page has been moved.

---- Luc Hondareyte <hondareyte.luc at laposte.net> wrote:
Le jeudi 15 mai 2008 ? 14:39 -0400, Mike I a ?crit :
> Anyone have the pinout for this Hitachi micro?  This is the flat-pack
> version of the chip. The pdf file from datasheetarchive is corrupted and
> doesn't open (and the same corrupted file seems to have found it's way onto
> many other websites).
> M.
>
Hello,

hum, I have no problem to open the pdf file from datasheetarchives
(http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1550862.pdf). I use a very basic
pdf viewer (evince).

Regards,
Luc

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Thu May 15 23:45:11 2008
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (Mike I)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:45:11 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Hitachi HD63B03XF microcontroller pinout ??
References: <1210880009.6693.6.camel@casper.acme>,
	<20080515154712.MRJ40.449613.root@fepweb07>
	<66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A4E1AF68407@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>
Message-ID: <001501c8b6d4$f448e8c0$c2db47d1@ca>

Thanks for the help guys (!) .... that's almost certainly the problem then,
I am using an old version of Acrobat reader,  first time I've encountered
this problem with specsheet pdfs though, and I go through lots of them (
better than TV ! )
Mike


----- Original Message -----
From: Ullrich Peter <Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net>
To: jvastine <jvastine at charter.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:57 PM
Subject: AW: [sdiy] Hitachi HD63B03XF microcontroller pinout ??


>
> Interesting. I tried a few seconds ago and it was here...
> I had a look at it with Acobat Reader 7.0.
> Then I opened it with Acrobat 4.0 and got an error... Just as I wrote in
my last email...
>
> Ciao
> Peter
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] im Auftrag von jvastine
[jvastine at charter.net]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Mai 2008 21:47
> An: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Hitachi HD63B03XF microcontroller pinout ??
>
> I find that interesting, because when I clicked upon the link I received a
message stating that the page has been moved.
>
> ---- Luc Hondareyte <hondareyte.luc at laposte.net> wrote:
> Le jeudi 15 mai 2008 ? 14:39 -0400, Mike I a ?crit :
> > Anyone have the pinout for this Hitachi micro?  This is the flat-pack
> > version of the chip. The pdf file from datasheetarchive is corrupted and
> > doesn't open (and the same corrupted file seems to have found it's way
onto
> > many other websites).
> > M.
> >
> Hello,
>
> hum, I have no problem to open the pdf file from datasheetarchives
> (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1550862.pdf). I use a very basic
> pdf viewer (evince).
>
> Regards,
> Luc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From buchi at allnet.de  Fri May 16 08:38:28 2008
From: buchi at allnet.de (Michael Buchstaller)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:38:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] test #12 <kindly ignore>
In-Reply-To: <29996AE1-345A-4AEF-A74F-EF3EE097596F@blauwurf.info>
References: <29996AE1-345A-4AEF-A74F-EF3EE097596F@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <9uaq249tabn9461aguhpb856m8g1vf2ekn@4ax.com>

this did make it to the List !

-Michael



From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Fri May 16 13:43:59 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:43:59 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] test #12 - =?iso-8859-1?Q?r=E9sum=E9?=
In-Reply-To: <9uaq249tabn9461aguhpb856m8g1vf2ekn@4ax.com>
References: <29996AE1-345A-4AEF-A74F-EF3EE097596F@blauwurf.info>
	<9uaq249tabn9461aguhpb856m8g1vf2ekn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <61450.85.127.80.78.1210938239.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>

Hi Michael, thanks!
It appears that there's some filtering or other check going on since none
of my available posting hosts is able to succesfully deliver mails to the
list.
I also learned that it's not just me (who else?)
For the time being I'll stop to try to find out what's wrong and
grudgingly use a webmailer for posting. Also because it's just this place
where trouble occurs.
I won't bother with resending all my other postings which didn't make it
to the list unnoticed.

Thanks for your patience!

  Over and out, ;-) Michael.

On May 16, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Michael Buchstaller wrote:

> this did make it to the List !
>
> -Michael


-- 
hear the colours of noise: http://blauwurf.at



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri May 16 13:58:09 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (GRAHAM ATKINS)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:58:09 +0100
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[sdiy]_test_#12_-_r=E9sum=E9?=
In-Reply-To: <61450.85.127.80.78.1210938239.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>
References: <29996AE1-345A-4AEF-A74F-EF3EE097596F@blauwurf.info>
	<9uaq249tabn9461aguhpb856m8g1vf2ekn@4ax.com>
	<61450.85.127.80.78.1210938239.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>
Message-ID: <34CB16A4-1CB0-4716-A30A-8C508D6C45EA@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi Michael,

I'm following this with interest. I can "reply" to any posting on the  
list but
have never been able to send direct posts as if my email account is  
being
blocked. I have tried many tests but never cracked it !. My service  
provider
is one of the UK's biggest, part of the Virgin Media group.

Graham

On May 16, 2008, at 12:43, Michael Zacherl wrote:

> Hi Michael, thanks!
> It appears that there's some filtering or other check going on since  
> none
> of my available posting hosts is able to successfully deliver mails  
> to the
> list.
> I also learned that it's not just me (who else?)
> For the time being I'll stop to try to find out what's wrong and
> grudgingly use a webmailer for posting. Also because it's just this  
> place
> where trouble occurs.
> I won't bother with resending all my other postings which didn't  
> make it
> to the list unnoticed.
>
> Thanks for your patience!
>
>  Over and out, ;-) Michael.
>
> On May 16, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Michael Buchstaller wrote:
>
>> this did make it to the List !
>>
>> -Michael
>
>
> -- 
> hear the colours of noise: http://blauwurf.at
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri May 16 23:50:18 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 22:50:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] You can post HTML emails to this list...
In-Reply-To: <34CB16A4-1CB0-4716-A30A-8C508D6C45EA@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <29996AE1-345A-4AEF-A74F-EF3EE097596F@blauwurf.info>	<9uaq249tabn9461aguhpb856m8g1vf2ekn@4ax.com>	<61450.85.127.80.78.1210938239.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>
	<34CB16A4-1CB0-4716-A30A-8C508D6C45EA@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <482E019A.80904@burnit.co.uk>

GRAHAM ATKINS wrote:
> I'm following this with interest. I can "reply" to any posting on the 
> list but
> have never been able to send direct posts as if my email account is being
> blocked. I have tried many tests but never cracked it !. My service 
> provider
> is one of the UK's biggest, part of the Virgin Media group.
>

Probably you just have your email client set to send HTML format emails 
by default.  These will be silently dropped by the list.  When you reply 
to a plain text email then your email client will tend to send in plain 
text hence it gets through.

Seb




From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat May 17 00:10:04 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (GRAHAM ATKINS)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:10:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TEST (Please ignore)
Message-ID: <9C49C9C3-02FF-49C7-A118-C6E5716F5BA1@blueyonder.co.uk>

TEST.1



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat May 17 00:10:47 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (GRAHAM ATKINS)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:10:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TEST (Please ignore)
Message-ID: <142C748C-18EC-4025-831E-172FE4CD265A@blueyonder.co.uk>

TEST.1



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat May 17 00:30:05 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (GRAHAM ATKINS)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:30:05 +0100
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[sdiy]_test_#12_-_r=E9sum=E9?=
In-Reply-To: <20080516210517.GH3087@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <29996AE1-345A-4AEF-A74F-EF3EE097596F@blauwurf.info>
	<9uaq249tabn9461aguhpb856m8g1vf2ekn@4ax.com>
	<61450.85.127.80.78.1210938239.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>
	<34CB16A4-1CB0-4716-A30A-8C508D6C45EA@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<20080516175543.GA2545@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<77B2D850-11C2-4104-AB7D-DED6855F8241@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<20080516210517.GH3087@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <10EFD408-D3E6-4D16-9087-C0701D3BA35B@blueyonder.co.uk>


On May 16, 2008, at 22:05, Andre Majorel wrote:
>
> Let me put it this way : how would you feel if you went to a
> restaurant and some entries on the menu were marked "(edible)" ? :-)
>
> -- 
> Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
> Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
> See the URL above for contact information.
>
Thanks Andre, Seb....the option to toggle between what
Apple call "Rich Text" and plain text was set to rich text, Apple
trying to be different as usual. All works now.

Graham



From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Sat May 17 01:53:03 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 01:53:03 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] test #12 - finally, sorry
In-Reply-To: <10EFD408-D3E6-4D16-9087-C0701D3BA35B@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <29996AE1-345A-4AEF-A74F-EF3EE097596F@blauwurf.info>
	<9uaq249tabn9461aguhpb856m8g1vf2ekn@4ax.com>
	<61450.85.127.80.78.1210938239.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>
	<34CB16A4-1CB0-4716-A30A-8C508D6C45EA@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<20080516175543.GA2545@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<77B2D850-11C2-4104-AB7D-DED6855F8241@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<20080516210517.GH3087@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<10EFD408-D3E6-4D16-9087-C0701D3BA35B@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4E19599C-A83C-4C2A-8436-82F0AA095BB2@blauwurf.info>


Oh dear, I need a break :-( ... Tom Wiltshire mentioned that and I  
really tought I tried this as well.
I stand corrected - sorry for that mess!
Thanks!

On May 17, 2008, at 12:30 AM, GRAHAM ATKINS wrote:

>
> On May 16, 2008, at 22:05, Andre Majorel wrote:
>>
>> Let me put it this way : how would you feel if you went to a
>> restaurant and some entries on the menu were marked "(edible)" ? :-)
>>
>> -- 
>> Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
>> Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
>> See the URL above for contact information.
>>
> Thanks Andre, Seb....the option to toggle between what
> Apple call "Rich Text" and plain text was set to rich text, Apple
> trying to be different as usual. All works now.
>
> Graham




From dlmanley at sonic.net  Sat May 17 02:25:20 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 17:25:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] test #12 - finally, sorry
In-Reply-To: <4E19599C-A83C-4C2A-8436-82F0AA095BB2@blauwurf.info>
References: <29996AE1-345A-4AEF-A74F-EF3EE097596F@blauwurf.info>	<9uaq249tabn9461aguhpb856m8g1vf2ekn@4ax.com>	<61450.85.127.80.78.1210938239.squirrel@webmail-srv1.servage.net>	<34CB16A4-1CB0-4716-A30A-8C508D6C45EA@blueyonder.co.uk>	<20080516175543.GA2545@aym.net2.nerim.net>	<77B2D850-11C2-4104-AB7D-DED6855F8241@blueyonder.co.uk>	<20080516210517.GH3087@aym.net2.nerim.net>	<10EFD408-D3E6-4D16-9087-C0701D3BA35B@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E19599C-A83C-4C2A-8436-82F0AA095BB2@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <482E25F0.7080909@sonic.net>

Michael Zacherl wrote:
> 
> Oh dear, I need a break :-( ... Tom Wiltshire mentioned that and I 
> really tought I tried this as well.
> I stand corrected - sorry for that mess!
> Thanks!
> 

All will be forgiven, if you post something interesting!

Well...?

We're waiting!

:-)

-Dave



From tensiontype at hotmail.com  Sat May 17 15:33:07 2008
From: tensiontype at hotmail.com (Sean Ellis)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 15:33:07 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>
	<000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>
Message-ID: <BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>

I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch into 
a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help out? 
Google is not helping much :( 



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat May 17 16:19:15 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 00:19:15 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003601c8b828$fd711b70$8501a8c0@ice9>

I don't believe it can be done.
In the off position, no pin is connected to any other.

Paul perry Melbourne Australia

-----Original Message-----
>I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch
>into 
>a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help out? 
>Google is not helping much :( 



From blincoln at eventualdecline.com  Sat May 17 16:47:47 2008
From: blincoln at eventualdecline.com (Ben Lincoln)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 07:47:47 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <003601c8b828$fd711b70$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <003601c8b828$fd711b70$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <482EF013.7090406@eventualdecline.com>

You could do it with a couple of transistors, couldn't you? A 
two-transistor NOR gate off of the two standard on positions should 
result in the middle "on" position.

Paul Perry wrote:
> I don't believe it can be done.
> In the off position, no pin is connected to any other.
>
> Paul perry Melbourne Australia
>
> -----Original Message-----
>   
>> I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch
>> into 
>> a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help out? 
>> Google is not helping much :( 
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   


From blacet at blacet.com  Sat May 17 16:54:41 2008
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 07:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>
	<000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>
	<BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20544.63.167.160.139.1211036081.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>

---I use these switches all the time but you usually have to add
electronic switches and diode logic or regular CMOS to get the three
functions. For example, our Dual Filter uses these switches to select LP,
BP, HP outputs at the single output jacks. MAX365 elements actually switch
the audio on the PCB with two diodes and a 100K pull down for logic.



> I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch
> into
> a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help out?
> Google is not helping much :(
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


-- 
John Blacet



From guitaricon at verizon.net  Sat May 17 17:31:21 2008
From: guitaricon at verizon.net (jeff brown)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 11:31:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>
	<000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>
	<BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000b01c8b833$0f3d7d30$0401a8c0@jeff>

Maybe it was on Matthias [FONIK] Herrmann's website:

http://www.modular.fonik.de/files/ononon.gif




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sean Ellis" <tensiontype at hotmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:33 AM
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help


>I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch 
>into a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help 
>out? Google is not helping much :(
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From guitaricon at verizon.net  Sat May 17 17:33:24 2008
From: guitaricon at verizon.net (jeff brown)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 11:33:24 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>
	<000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>
	<BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001b01c8b833$58b66350$0401a8c0@jeff>

Oh, and I think it needs to be a DPDT on-on-on switch, not and on-off-on.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sean Ellis" <tensiontype at hotmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:33 AM
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help


>I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch 
>into a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help 
>out? Google is not helping much :(
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From daytona at verizon.net  Sat May 17 17:50:52 2008
From: daytona at verizon.net (TJ)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 11:50:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com>
	<000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca>
	<BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <opuba2a2bo1z7pau@mail.verizon.net>

Yep, has to be on-on-on.
Schematic and info at bottom of page here:
http://www.simple-answer.com/DIY.html
http://www.simple-answer.com/3_pos_switch.jpg

> I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch  
> into a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help  
> out? Google is not helping much :(


From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Sat May 17 20:46:52 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 14:46:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com><000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca><BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>
	<001b01c8b833$58b66350$0401a8c0@jeff>
Message-ID: <001401c8b84e$60c8a060$0202a8c0@positronium>

Yes, it's that special switch that I think people use in Buchla 292C 
circuits sometimes? I forget the C&K number, but if you look at he German 
link in another message you can see how when the switch is in the middle 
position, only ONE of the switch contacts has moved: when it's UP, both are 
UP, when it's in the middle one is UP and the other DOWN, when it's DOWN 
both are DOWN.

You could call this an asynchronous DPDT ON-ON-ON or something like that.

Depending on what you are doing a normal DPDT ON-OFF-ON (more common) can be 
used as a three position switch if you are using it to switch different 
values of resistors or something.

You could have the top one be 2 resistors in parallel, the middle be just 
one of the resistors switched on and the bottom be 2 resistors in series. 
However you like, you get the idea.

AA


> Oh, and I think it needs to be a DPDT on-on-on switch, not and on-off-on.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sean Ellis" <tensiontype at hotmail.com>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:33 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
>
>
>>I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch 
>>into a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help 
>>out? Google is not helping much :(
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sat May 17 21:03:19 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 13:03:19 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] SH1000 problems..envelope
Message-ID: <482F2BF7.10809@imt.net>

What a peculiar circuit...lots of transistors interacting and poorly 
labelled stuff on diagrams so you have to play wire tracing games on the 
big diagram.  It burned me up last night til too late.  DOES ANYONE 
know...if this is 'normal'.  This SH1000 has a variation in the baseline 
voltages on the envelope sliders (there is a common leg on the A, D and 
R) depending on whether various VCA tabs are selected.  If NO VCA tabs 
are selected then the voltage is so shifted on mine that there is no VCF 
eg control even though that tab is selected.  However the growl and wow 
function.  Does anyone know if this is supposed to be for some bizarre 
reason?  There are too many possibilities still in my mind as to what 
might be causing this.  ALSO the attack time seems kinda short.  I tried 
swapping the middle board AR-1 with another unit we are scrapping and it 
was worse not better. -Bob


From juzowen at googlemail.com  Sun May 18 15:05:46 2008
From: juzowen at googlemail.com (Justin Owen)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:05:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
Message-ID: <48301b9c.09a8100a.6dcd.ffffe10c@mx.google.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Ellis [tensiontype at hotmail.com]
Received: 17.05.2008 13:48:00
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help

> I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch into 
a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help out? 
Google is not helping much :( 


It's a bit convoluted - but you can make a SP3T (ON/ON/ON) toggle switch from a standard SPDT (ON/Centre-Off/ON) toggle switch using OR Gates on Pins 1 and 3 of the switch and a NOR Gate on Pin 2. These 3 gates then turn on/off 1 of 3 analogue switches - like a 4066.

I can post a schematic if you're interested - or you could just use a rotary switch.

BTW: Apologies if this comes through twice - I posted my original reply from the wrong email address)


J





From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun May 18 17:47:55 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 17:47:55 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
References: <48301b9c.09a8100a.6dcd.ffffe10c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <001301c8b8fe$8a755b50$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

>It's a bit convoluted - but you can make a SP3T (ON/ON/ON) toggle switch 
>from a standard SPDT (ON/Centre-Off/ON) toggle switch >using OR Gates on 
>Pins 1 and 3 of the switch and a NOR Gate on Pin 2. These 3 gates then turn 
>on/off 1 of 3 analogue switches - like a >4066.


Oh, if you can use analogue switches, you only need a single gate, when 
using an on - off - on switch:
Pin 2 goes to vcc. Pins 1 and 3 get a pulldown resistor to GND, and control 
a 4016 directly (A, C).
The mid position (B) is decoded with a single NOR gate from pin 1 and pin 3:
B = notA AND notC = A NOR C = not(A OR C)
A 4016 contains 4 switches.
You need 3 for the analogue switches, so you can build an OR function from 
two diodes and a resistor, and use the 4th 4016 switch and a resistor for 
"not".

So you just need a single 4016, two diodes, and a few resistors.

JH.



From futureimage at hotmail.co.uk  Sun May 18 18:16:37 2008
From: futureimage at hotmail.co.uk (futureimage at hotmail.co.uk)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 17:16:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Way OT - Who's the oldest?
In-Reply-To: <018401c8768d$0e2e97e0$0301a8c0@legba><000701c87706$d4d50ae0$82c2fea9@tim3><008101c877dc$e20dba00$9055f442@positronium><48201.205.175.225.22.1203967366.squirrel@adiemus.org><89278f010802251325o3278c4b6i3ab02afcc4bb3eeb@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802261639.m1QGdFwm024205@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
References: <018401c8768d$0e2e97e0$0301a8c0@legba><000701c87706$d4d50ae0$82c2fea9@tim3><008101c877dc$e20dba00$9055f442@positronium><48201.205.175.225.22.1203967366.squirrel@adiemus.org><89278f010802251325o3278c4b6i3ab02afcc4bb3eeb@mail.gmail.com>
	<200802261639.m1QGdFwm024205@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <BLU127-DS6860A4AD352DC3F3F6206F0CA0@phx.gbl>

Sorry to bring up an old topic again, but I just went trawling through some 
of the stuff I haven't read.
Anyways, I'm 15, 16 in July. Dunno if it's a bad thing to be into this stuff 
at such a young age, I'll be mad/boring once I'm 30 I bet. :P

Cheers,
Finlay Shakespeare

http://www.futuresoundsystems.tk

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Mahoney" <jmahoney at gate.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:39 PM
To: "Spencer Johnson" <marxspeakstruth at gmail.com>; 
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Way OT - Who's the oldest?

> At 04:25 PM 2/25/2008, Spencer Johnson wrote:
>
>>i may be the youngest... started with sdiy when i was 16, and i'm now
>>19, so looks like i'm the winner. do i get a door prize?
>
> Sure! Send me your street address and I'll send you a CA3080, one of the 
> all-time classic SDIY chips. And maybe Roy will send you a CD4006 if you 
> as the old man politely. ;-)
>
> John
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 
> 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sun May 18 23:19:25 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 15:19:25 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] SH-1000 clues, and anyone know knob source?
Message-ID: <48309D5D.8090109@imt.net>

Cy of chipforbrains has them for almost 2 bucks a knob for a whole set 
of 41 (compliment for SH5)  Is there a near equiv. anyone knows of more 
in the dollar each zone?

The SH-1000 after making a time consuming study of the schematic and 
figuring out all their crappy abbreviations and nuances... I'm baffled 
as to why they did what I'm seeing here is that the vca hold and/or adsr 
switch have to be hit to enable the ADR sliders of the envelope control 
section.  So this disallows one from say setting a fixed envelope tab 
and still having EG control on the VCF which..is absurd.  WHY WHY WHY 
WHY?  I'm thinking of modifying it.

It would seem most logical that they would have made it so that if the 
vcf adsr tab is selected that it gives, regardless of what else is/is 
not hit, a vcf modulation from the eg.   The diagrams with the overall 
on two pages and having to trace wires as to what goes where.  Well I'm 
documenting it on my page as much as possible so that future people 
won't have to suffer this confusion anyway.

Who was that Roland guy who said 'learn to fix' again that Lightener 
referred to some years back?  He's PROBABLY the guy who spawned THIS 
brainchild :-)   All the ADSR switch for VCF does is connect the adsr 
amount travel to the VCF input mix.  It's an spst switch in 
implementation though all those switches have multiple connections and 
could be used for more. 

Anyway if anyone has ANY insight into why they did this I'd be most 
appreciative.  -Bob



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon May 19 02:26:36 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:26:36 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Way OT - Who's the oldest?
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-DS6860A4AD352DC3F3F6206F0CA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <006801c8b947$001127c0$8501a8c0@ice9>

Finlay, you speak as though being "mad" and "boring" is a BAD thing.

I'm exactly four times your age & I'm here to tell you, that both 'mad' and
'boring' are in the eye of the beholder.

Compared to people who watch TV every night, we of SDIY are as gods.
And yes, these are the best possible times to build the analog/digital
hybrid synth of your dreams.

paul perry melb aust



From loscha at gmail.com  Mon May 19 02:40:32 2008
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:40:32 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Vco for BBD clock generation
Message-ID: <17035a3d0805181740y3cc6f8efof4a5d1a30804cc29@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/2503124435/

As the description in Flickr explains,
"Circuit for using a CD4046 PLL to generate a voltage controlled BBD
complimentary phase clock! I found this ripped out page on it's own in
a stack of magazines I purchased Yesterday; Sunday 18th of May, 2008.
The previous owner was interested in the other side (some notes on
there in pencil).
 Thanks to Hugo Bramall of Canterbury, Victoria who came up with the
circuit and sent it ETI magazine in the first place!"

 The circuit is pretty low parts count. An op-amp (they suggest LM301
in the circuit) and a CD4046 PLL. A few resistors, capacitors and a
trimmer pot fill out the plan.

I hope someone out there finds this useful, interesting or at least novel.


From djservs at comcast.net  Mon May 19 02:45:42 2008
From: djservs at comcast.net (Nate Reeves)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 20:45:42 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] FS 80017a 
Message-ID: <1981FC39-7E52-4D09-91B5-A2A46BA4DB56@comcast.net>

original chips pulled from a juno 106 i got for parts as the case is  
beat to hell but the voices work!
asking $50 for each but negotiable
cheers
nate



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon May 19 02:52:47 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (GRAHAM ATKINS)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 01:52:47 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Way OT - Who's the oldest?
In-Reply-To: <006801c8b947$001127c0$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <006801c8b947$001127c0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <5BFF6F31-6B80-473A-96F8-0B9374CECB61@blueyonder.co.uk>

Finlay,

I can't agree more with Paul. I am 3 (And a bit !) times your age but  
I was
14 when I started. "Mad and boring" are all relative terms. It was  
interesting
enough back then but technology has made it so much more exciting now.
Digital synthesis outside of laboratories did not exist much before  
the 80's.

Enjoy

Graham

On May 19, 2008, at 1:26, Paul Perry wrote:

> Finlay, you speak as though being "mad" and "boring" is a BAD thing.
>
> I'm exactly four times your age & I'm here to tell you, that both  
> 'mad' and
> 'boring' are in the eye of the beholder.
>
> Compared to people who watch TV every night, we of SDIY are as gods.
> And yes, these are the best possible times to build the analog/digital
> hybrid synth of your dreams.
>
> paul perry melb aust
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From daveogarf at yahoo.com  Mon May 19 02:59:45 2008
From: daveogarf at yahoo.com (Dave Garfield)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 17:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Way OT - Who's the oldest?
Message-ID: <73294.88512.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Not Me, Mr. Frostwave & Co.!? I'm a spring chicken at 55.
Sillified,
Dave Garf, both mad and boring...


----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:26:36 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Way OT - Who's the oldest?

Finlay, you speak as though being "mad" and "boring" is a BAD thing.

I'm exactly four times your age & I'm here to tell you, that both 'mad' and
'boring' are in the eye of the beholder.

Compared to people who watch TV every night, we of SDIY are as gods.
And yes, these are the best possible times to build the analog/digital
hybrid synth of your dreams.

paul perry melb aust

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



      



From daveogarf at yahoo.com  Mon May 19 03:16:17 2008
From: daveogarf at yahoo.com (Dave Garfield)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 18:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Vco for BBD clock generation
Message-ID: <323581.80398.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi!
If you need 1Volt/Octave accuracy, I'd suggest the SSM2031 High-Frequency VCO chip, usually found in Seil DK-600s and such-like.? This chip, when paired with a good exponential convertor (You know; the whole MAT 02 kinda' thing), will provide square wave clock and notclock (inverted waveform) signals at up to ?4? ?5? MHz.? Plus, the tracking means that phasing, flanging, or whatever will increase twofold for every octave increase.
If you don't need that kind of precision, though, I'd go with the 4046 PLL circuit below.? Mine dos centavos - GRIN!? :->
Your Hi-Freq. Pal,
Dave Garf, basking in Sunday afternoon frequency...


----- Original Message ----
From: Loscha <loscha at gmail.com>
To: matrix <matrixsynth at gmail.com>; synthdiy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:40:32 PM
Subject: [sdiy] Vco for BBD clock generation

http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/2503124435/

As the description in Flickr explains,
"Circuit for using a CD4046 PLL to generate a voltage controlled BBD
complimentary phase clock! I found this ripped out page on it's own in
a stack of magazines I purchased Yesterday; Sunday 18th of May, 2008.
The previous owner was interested in the other side (some notes on
there in pencil).
Thanks to Hugo Bramall of Canterbury, Victoria who came up with the
circuit and sent it ETI magazine in the first place!"

The circuit is pretty low parts count. An op-amp (they suggest LM301
in the circuit) and a CD4046 PLL. A few resistors, capacitors and a
trimmer pot fill out the plan.

I hope someone out there finds this useful, interesting or at least novel.
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



      



From Brett.Maddaford at mailus.com.au  Mon May 19 04:17:38 2008
From: Brett.Maddaford at mailus.com.au (Brett Maddaford)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 12:17:38 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
Message-ID: <C802AE4E7C88FA4EB8803059B997200D0D5755A3@CARLEMAIL01>

Hi Sean

If you check the snvoice discussion on electro-music forums there is a
mention of the C&K switch to use and how to wire it (sorry I don't have time
to find the exact page in the forum) there is also a switch from a dodgy
ebay seller I wont mention that does the same thing.....i took the risk and
bought some and they have been fine.
Hope it helps

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of anthony
Sent: Sunday, 18 May 2008 04:47 
To: jeff brown; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] 3 position switch help

Yes, it's that special switch that I think people use in Buchla 292C 
circuits sometimes? I forget the C&K number, but if you look at he German 
link in another message you can see how when the switch is in the middle 
position, only ONE of the switch contacts has moved: when it's UP, both are 
UP, when it's in the middle one is UP and the other DOWN, when it's DOWN 
both are DOWN.

You could call this an asynchronous DPDT ON-ON-ON or something like that.

Depending on what you are doing a normal DPDT ON-OFF-ON (more common) can be

used as a three position switch if you are using it to switch different 
values of resistors or something.

You could have the top one be 2 resistors in parallel, the middle be just 
one of the resistors switched on and the bottom be 2 resistors in series. 
However you like, you get the idea.

AA


> Oh, and I think it needs to be a DPDT on-on-on switch, not and on-off-on.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sean Ellis" <tensiontype at hotmail.com>
> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:33 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
>
>
>>I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch 
>>into a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help 
>>out? Google is not helping much :(
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error
please delete the e-mail & notify the system manager.
We reserve the right to scan all e-mail traffic for restricted content
and to monitor all e-mail traffic in general.
The views and opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender 
and do not necessarily reflect the views of the organisation
by whom they are employed, except where the sender expressly
and with authority states them to be so.
This footnote also confirms that this email message
has been checked for the presence of computer viruses and script.
We believe but do not warrant that this e-mail is free from viruses.
Responsibility for virus checking rests entirely with the recipient.
5 at 356
**********************************************************************



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Mon May 19 06:01:26 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 00:01:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Vco for BBD clock generation
References: <323581.80398.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001201c8b965$04726360$0202a8c0@positronium>

Using a 4046 as a BBD clock has been done. By John Hollis for instance, but 
in commercial prodicts too. The Tycho Brahe (however it's spelled) Pedal 
Flanger used one and that's among the first ever flangers. You can see it in 
the pictures at modezero.com. (By the by does anyone have a schematic for 
that?)

Anthony


> Hi!
> If you need 1Volt/Octave accuracy, I'd suggest the SSM2031 High-Frequency 
> VCO chip, usually found in Seil DK-600s and such-like. This chip, when 
> paired with a good exponential convertor (You know; the whole MAT 02 
> kinda' thing), will provide square wave clock and notclock (inverted 
> waveform) signals at up to ?4? ?5? MHz. Plus, the tracking means that 
> phasing, flanging, or whatever will increase twofold for every octave 
> increase.
> If you don't need that kind of precision, though, I'd go with the 4046 PLL 
> circuit below. Mine dos centavos - GRIN! :->
> Your Hi-Freq. Pal,
> Dave Garf, basking in Sunday afternoon frequency...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Loscha <loscha at gmail.com>
> To: matrix <matrixsynth at gmail.com>; synthdiy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:40:32 PM
> Subject: [sdiy] Vco for BBD clock generation
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/2503124435/
>
> As the description in Flickr explains,
> "Circuit for using a CD4046 PLL to generate a voltage controlled BBD
> complimentary phase clock! I found this ripped out page on it's own in
> a stack of magazines I purchased Yesterday; Sunday 18th of May, 2008.
> The previous owner was interested in the other side (some notes on
> there in pencil).
> Thanks to Hugo Bramall of Canterbury, Victoria who came up with the
> circuit and sent it ETI magazine in the first place!"
>
> The circuit is pretty low parts count. An op-amp (they suggest LM301
> in the circuit) and a CD4046 PLL. A few resistors, capacitors and a
> trimmer pot fill out the plan.
>
> I hope someone out there finds this useful, interesting or at least novel.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From harrybissell at wowway.com  Mon May 19 20:02:21 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 13:02:21 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <001401c8b84e$60c8a060$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com><000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca><BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>
	<001b01c8b833$58b66350$0401a8c0@jeff>
	<001401c8b84e$60c8a060$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <20080519180016.M51470@wowway.com>

The C&K type is a 7211 and its called an "on-on-on" switch.

Wiring diagrams can be found on the data sheets, other companies
such as NKK make the same part.

They work great, and you can do even more tricks than just
three way with them (decode various switch states etc, interesting
waveform selects etc). Be creative

H^) harry



On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:46:52 -0400, anthony wrote
> Yes, it's that special switch that I think people use in Buchla 292C 
> circuits sometimes? I forget the C&K number, but if you look at he 
> German link in another message you can see how when the switch is in 
> the middle position, only ONE of the switch contacts has moved: when 
> it's UP, both are UP, when it's in the middle one is UP and the 
> other DOWN, when it's DOWN both are DOWN.
> 
> You could call this an asynchronous DPDT ON-ON-ON or something like that.
> 
> Depending on what you are doing a normal DPDT ON-OFF-ON (more common)
>  can be used as a three position switch if you are using it to 
> switch different values of resistors or something.
> 
> You could have the top one be 2 resistors in parallel, the middle be 
> just one of the resistors switched on and the bottom be 2 resistors 
> in series. However you like, you get the idea.
> 
> AA
> 
> > Oh, and I think it needs to be a DPDT on-on-on switch, not and on-off-on.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Sean Ellis" <tensiontype at hotmail.com>
> > To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:33 AM
> > Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
> >
> >
> >>I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch 
> >>into a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help 
> >>out? Google is not helping much :(
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From tensiontype at hotmail.com  Mon May 19 20:42:46 2008
From: tensiontype at hotmail.com (Sean Ellis)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 20:42:46 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com><000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca><BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl><001b01c8b833$58b66350$0401a8c0@jeff><001401c8b84e$60c8a060$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<20080519180016.M51470@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-DAV3F40DFAEFE918260DCA5FB3C50@phx.gbl>

Thanks for all the help with this, I should have read the fine print ;) This 
is the circuit I was thinking of but I missed the part that specified the 
7211 switch:
http://www.simple-answer.com/3_pos_switch.jpg
It's not really worth me getting this part for this circuit, or using logic 
switching as I have the panel space for 2 switches and can use switched 
jacks for more variety.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <harrybissell at wowway.com>
To: "anthony" <aankrom at bluemarble.net>; "jeff brown" 
<guitaricon at verizon.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] 3 position switch help


> The C&K type is a 7211 and its called an "on-on-on" switch.
>
> Wiring diagrams can be found on the data sheets, other companies
> such as NKK make the same part.
>
> They work great, and you can do even more tricks than just
> three way with them (decode various switch states etc, interesting
> waveform selects etc). Be creative
>
> H^) harry
>
>
>
> On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:46:52 -0400, anthony wrote
>> Yes, it's that special switch that I think people use in Buchla 292C
>> circuits sometimes? I forget the C&K number, but if you look at he
>> German link in another message you can see how when the switch is in
>> the middle position, only ONE of the switch contacts has moved: when
>> it's UP, both are UP, when it's in the middle one is UP and the
>> other DOWN, when it's DOWN both are DOWN.
>>
>> You could call this an asynchronous DPDT ON-ON-ON or something like that.
>>
>> Depending on what you are doing a normal DPDT ON-OFF-ON (more common)
>>  can be used as a three position switch if you are using it to
>> switch different values of resistors or something.
>>
>> You could have the top one be 2 resistors in parallel, the middle be
>> just one of the resistors switched on and the bottom be 2 resistors
>> in series. However you like, you get the idea.
>>
>> AA
>>
>> > Oh, and I think it needs to be a DPDT on-on-on switch, not and 
>> > on-off-on.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Sean Ellis" <tensiontype at hotmail.com>
>> > To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> > Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:33 AM
>> > Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
>> >
>> >
>> >>I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch
>> >>into a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help
>> >>out? Google is not helping much :(
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Synth-diy mailing list
>> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Mon May 19 20:57:46 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 11:57:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <20080519180016.M51470@wowway.com>
References: <17035a3d0805082338tef4f83bqf844245557332183@mail.gmail.com><000701c8b6ba$f3bd4960$a9dc47d1@ca><BAY144-DAV12E6AA62D6A13E43AAF1F7B3CB0@phx.gbl>	<001b01c8b833$58b66350$0401a8c0@jeff>	<001401c8b84e$60c8a060$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<20080519180016.M51470@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4831CDAA.3030008@sonic.net>

Well lookie here at the fourth Google hit when searching "C&K 7211":

http://www.edn.com/article/CA6339250.html

The author looks familiar.  :-)

-Dave

harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:
> The C&K type is a 7211 and its called an "on-on-on" switch.
> 
> Wiring diagrams can be found on the data sheets, other companies
> such as NKK make the same part.
> 
> They work great, and you can do even more tricks than just
> three way with them (decode various switch states etc, interesting
> waveform selects etc). Be creative
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:46:52 -0400, anthony wrote
>> Yes, it's that special switch that I think people use in Buchla 292C 
>> circuits sometimes? I forget the C&K number, but if you look at he 
>> German link in another message you can see how when the switch is in 
>> the middle position, only ONE of the switch contacts has moved: when 
>> it's UP, both are UP, when it's in the middle one is UP and the 
>> other DOWN, when it's DOWN both are DOWN.
>>
>> You could call this an asynchronous DPDT ON-ON-ON or something like that.
>>
>> Depending on what you are doing a normal DPDT ON-OFF-ON (more common)
>>  can be used as a three position switch if you are using it to 
>> switch different values of resistors or something.
>>
>> You could have the top one be 2 resistors in parallel, the middle be 
>> just one of the resistors switched on and the bottom be 2 resistors 
>> in series. However you like, you get the idea.
>>
>> AA
>>
>>> Oh, and I think it needs to be a DPDT on-on-on switch, not and on-off-on.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Sean Ellis" <tensiontype at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:33 AM
>>> Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
>>>
>>>
>>>> I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch 
>>>> into a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help 
>>>> out? Google is not helping much :(
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> 




From czvekan at gmail.com  Mon May 19 21:00:51 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 21:00:51 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Inifinity encoders
Message-ID: <69993B46-33AE-4035-A9B2-1D5F3ECD1DF6@gmail.com>

Hi ,

I am looking for some infinity encoders . Working on some MIDI  
Keyboard  encoder/ mini sequencer/ controller project with the  
PIC18F4520 got me thinking that would be the right choice.
Any resources ?

Csaba






From czvekan at gmail.com  Mon May 19 21:50:36 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 21:50:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Inifinity encoders
In-Reply-To: <d3a114240805191237wfcdc893ra453af73ba4ba2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <69993B46-33AE-4035-A9B2-1D5F3ECD1DF6@gmail.com>
	<d3a114240805191237wfcdc893ra453af73ba4ba2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20CA7919-0A6E-4489-AA20-A0E4E7D184D4@gmail.com>

Holy Cow these are some low cost prices. You guys know where the great  
buys are.

Thanks Romeo


On May 19, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Romeo Fahl wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This may be a good place to start:
>
> http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/where_to_order_components#rotary_encoders
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> Hi ,
>>
>> I am looking for some infinity encoders . Working on some MIDI  
>> Keyboard
>> encoder/ mini sequencer/ controller project with the PIC18F4520 got  
>> me
>> thinking that would be the right choice.
>> Any resources ?
>>
>> Csaba
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>

**************
http://www.csabazvekan.com
music stuff
http://www.csaba.ch
electronic stuff
http://www.synthmaniac.com
synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)







From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon May 19 23:39:25 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 23:39:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Who is making LM317 / LM337 in *insulated* TO220 ?
Message-ID: <002301c8b9f8$cf27f730$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Hi,

I found ST make an insulated TO220 version of the 317 (LM317P), but 
apparently not of the 337.

Are there any other manufacturers that make an insolated TO220 LM317, and - 
more important -
are there any who make an insulated TO220 LM337 ?

JH. 



From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue May 20 00:32:31 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 00:32:31 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] string filter update
Message-ID: <002a01c8ba00$3a399e00$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_sch.pdf

JH.


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue May 20 03:16:22 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:16:22 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <4831CDAA.3030008@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <008701c8ba17$1ec4b080$8501a8c0@ice9>

Very familiar indeed.
That circuit makes me wonder though - is there a fairly elegant way to make
a three output peak rectifier (pos, neg, and full) so that instead of
switching, you have the three options continuously available?

paul perry Melbourne Australia

-----Original Message from Dave Manley-----
>Well lookie here at the fourth Google hit when searching "C&K 7211":
>http://www.edn.com/article/CA6339250.html
> The author looks familiar.  :-)




From harrybissell at wowway.com  Tue May 20 13:55:37 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 06:55:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <008701c8ba17$1ec4b080$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <4831CDAA.3030008@sonic.net> <008701c8ba17$1ec4b080$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <20080520115457.M2623@wowway.com>

Yes.    :^P

(I'll leave the exercise to the reader ~for now~ :^)

H^) harry




On Tue, 20 May 2008 11:16:22 +1000, Paul Perry wrote
> Very familiar indeed.
> That circuit makes me wonder though - is there a fairly elegant way 
> to make a three output peak rectifier (pos, neg, and full) so that 
> instead of switching, you have the three options continuously available?
> 
> paul perry Melbourne Australia
> 
> -----Original Message from Dave Manley-----
> >Well lookie here at the fourth Google hit when searching "C&K 7211":
> >http://www.edn.com/article/CA6339250.html
> > The author looks familiar.  :-)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From music.maker at gte.net  Tue May 20 17:52:59 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:52:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] GateManPoly
Message-ID: <200805201552.m4KFqwGS013585@linux7.lan>

http://www.fpga.synth.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=FPGASynth.GateManPoly

An 8 voice polyphonic version of my GateMan FPGA synth.

-- ScottG

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- GateMan-III - FPGA Based Monophonic MIDI Synthesizer with SVF
-- PolyDaWG/8 - FPGA Based 8 Voice Polyphonic MIDI Synthesizer
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From controlvoltage at gmail.com  Tue May 20 20:14:47 2008
From: controlvoltage at gmail.com (Amos)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 14:14:47 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] GateManPoly
In-Reply-To: <200805201552.m4KFqwGS013585@linux7.lan>
References: <200805201552.m4KFqwGS013585@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <908a4c120805201114s595a8713s8c4f48ef50c958e1@mail.gmail.com>

Sounding great, Scott!  Really nice rich tone in your example mp3.

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Scott Gravenhorst <music.maker at gte.net> wrote:
> http://www.fpga.synth.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=FPGASynth.GateManPoly
>
> An 8 voice polyphonic version of my GateMan FPGA synth.
>
> -- ScottG
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- GateMan-III - FPGA Based Monophonic MIDI Synthesizer with SVF
> -- PolyDaWG/8 - FPGA Based 8 Voice Polyphonic MIDI Synthesizer
> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From grichter at asapnet.net  Tue May 20 20:44:58 2008
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:44:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <008701c8ba17$1ec4b080$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <008701c8ba17$1ec4b080$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <329B9BC7-FF78-4760-9DF3-89EE196812F5@asapnet.net>

Put two diodes inside the feedback loop of two op-amps. One for  
positive, one for negative.
Then you have two precision halfwave rectifiers.

Invert the output of one, and sum it with the other for full wave  
rectification.
A quad op-amp would do the whole thing. And all the waveforms are  
available at the same time.

On May 19, 2008, at 8:16 PM, Paul Perry wrote:

> Very familiar indeed.
> That circuit makes me wonder though - is there a fairly elegant way  
> to make
> a three output peak rectifier (pos, neg, and full) so that instead of
> switching, you have the three options continuously available?
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia
>
> -----Original Message from Dave Manley-----
>> Well lookie here at the fourth Google hit when searching "C&K 7211":
>> http://www.edn.com/article/CA6339250.html
>> The author looks familiar.  :-)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Tue May 20 22:09:47 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:09:47 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
In-Reply-To: <329B9BC7-FF78-4760-9DF3-89EE196812F5@asapnet.net>
References: <008701c8ba17$1ec4b080$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<329B9BC7-FF78-4760-9DF3-89EE196812F5@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <4833300B.20100@sonic.net>

As a variation on the theme - here's an interesting single supply, full 
wave rectifier without *any* diodes.  Requires rail-rail op-amps.

http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6250014

-Dave

Grant Richter wrote:
> Put two diodes inside the feedback loop of two op-amps. One for 
> positive, one for negative.
> Then you have two precision halfwave rectifiers.
> 
> Invert the output of one, and sum it with the other for full wave 
> rectification.
> A quad op-amp would do the whole thing. And all the waveforms are 
> available at the same time.
> 
> On May 19, 2008, at 8:16 PM, Paul Perry wrote:
> 
>> Very familiar indeed.
>> That circuit makes me wonder though - is there a fairly elegant way to 
>> make
>> a three output peak rectifier (pos, neg, and full) so that instead of
>> switching, you have the three options continuously available?
>>
>> paul perry Melbourne Australia
>>
>> -----Original Message from Dave Manley-----
>>> Well lookie here at the fourth Google hit when searching "C&K 7211":
>>> http://www.edn.com/article/CA6339250.html
>>> The author looks familiar.  :-)



From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue May 20 22:09:47 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:09:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
References: <008701c8ba17$1ec4b080$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<329B9BC7-FF78-4760-9DF3-89EE196812F5@asapnet.net>
Message-ID: <00c901c8bab5$741b1d00$0400a8c0@jhsilent>



>Put two diodes inside the feedback loop of two op-amps. One for
>positive, one for negative.
>Then you have two precision halfwave rectifiers.

Or, put two diodes inside the feedback loop of *one* op-amp.
Think of the ordinary half wave rectifier with inverting opamp: Two diodes 
usually branch the feedback path into a feedback resistor (from which you 
derive the half wave), and the other normally goes directly to the virtual 
GND summing node from the diode.
Put another resistor in there, and voila, the other half wave.
A second opamp is then configured for calculating the difference of two 
inputs (the simple, single-opamp instrumentation amp with 4 resistors, only 
that you can omit two of them here), to derive the full wave rectified 
signal.
Dual opamp solution for the whole thing!
(see http://www.jhaible.heim.at/fs1a/jh_fs1a_schematics_board_1.pdf , the 
part around U3 and U4. I don't make use of the half wave signals here - I 
need magnitude and sign instead - but it's the same circuit.)

JH. 



From recompas at gmail.com  Tue May 20 22:25:00 2008
From: recompas at gmail.com (Travis Thatcher)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 16:25:00 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] source for Joysticks
Message-ID: <988b7c650805201325o75b246e2o9ef74d3304e1dba9@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking for a reasonably priced source for joysticks, similar
those used in the Wiard Joystick Controller.  I've looked all over,
anybody have any suggestions?

-Travis

-- 
http://www.judichicago.com
http://www.myspace.com/judichicago
http://www.recompas.com
http://voiceofsaturn.blogspot.com


From johans121 at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 00:13:08 2008
From: johans121 at yahoo.com (James Elliott)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Fw: [AH] Schematic Archive
Message-ID: <942324.34608.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Figured this group would find the following information interesting!
-Jim

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Mark Pulver <mark at midiwall.com>
To: AH <analogue at hyperreal.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:58:55 PM
Subject: [AH] Schematic Archive


I was cleaning out my bookmarks and came across this:
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/

Check some of the interesting entries here:
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schempage.php?cat=1

? Korg MSxx
? Moog 9xx
? Couple of Oberheim pieces
? MXR
? PAiA
? Polyfusion


      



From johans121 at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 06:36:27 2008
From: johans121 at yahoo.com (James Elliott)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 21:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes...
Message-ID: <546109.95977.qm@web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have a newbie question that I need assistance with.

Are 914 & 4148 diodes the same thing (or are they interchangeable)?

I checked out the Fairchild data sheet and it seems like they are, but I can't tell for certain.

Thanks,
Jim



      


From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 07:16:17 2008
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Chip ID
In-Reply-To: <00c901c8bab5$741b1d00$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <728791.67214.qm@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi, does anyone here know what these chips are?

1. Toshiba TL8500P 22-pin DIP
2. ZDL-817 16-pin DIP looks like manufacturer is "SVCC"
3. ZDL-850 16-pin DIP looks like manufacturer is "SVCC"

Thanks
Doug


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Wed May 21 07:49:18 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:49:18 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes...
In-Reply-To: <546109.95977.qm@web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <010f01c8bb06$69e396e0$8501a8c0@ice9>

If there's a difference, I've never noticed it!

paul perry Melbourne Australia

-----Original Message-----.
Are 914 & 4148 diodes the same thing (or are they interchangeable)?





From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 21 11:07:02 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:07:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes...
In-Reply-To: <010f01c8bb06$69e396e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <010f01c8bb06$69e396e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <D10070A8-C7EB-447F-A094-94828A7137EE@electricdruid.net>


On 21 May 2008, at 06:49, Paul Perry wrote:

> If there's a difference, I've never noticed it!
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia

Me neither. I've even used them for fuzz circuits where you hear the  
characteristics directly and I can't hear any difference. Other types  
of diode (rectifiers, germaniums, LEDs, etc) usually give you a  
variation in the sound.

T.







From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 21 14:34:48 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:34:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digital noise source project (replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5
	and Monopoly)
Message-ID: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>

Hi folks,

After the recent discussion about digital noise sources and the  
MN5837, I tried out the code that Eric Brombaugh had found on the EDN  
site. I tweaked it a bit so that it never repeats (well, in 142  
million years) and did a circuit based on the Polyfusion Modular (you  
gotta love infra-red noise!) and I've put the results online:

http://www.electricdruid.com/index.php?page=projects.noisegen

I also made a few notes about replacing the MN5837 chip in the  
Sequential Prophet 5 and early Korg Monopoly.

Hope this helps someone!
Regards,
Tom




From johans121 at yahoo.com  Wed May 21 18:35:58 2008
From: johans121 at yahoo.com (James Elliott)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes...
Message-ID: <351296.26370.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Cool!
Thanks for the feedback everybody!
-Jim


----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
To: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
Cc: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:07:02 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes...


On 21 May 2008, at 06:49, Paul Perry wrote:

> If there's a difference, I've never noticed it!
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia

Me neither. I've even used them for fuzz circuits where you hear the? 
characteristics directly and I can't hear any difference. Other types? 
of diode (rectifiers, germaniums, LEDs, etc) usually give you a? 
variation in the sound.

T.





_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



      



From tom.corbitt at gmail.com  Wed May 21 20:20:59 2008
From: tom.corbitt at gmail.com (Tom Corbitt)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:20:59 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes..
In-Reply-To: <351296.26370.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <351296.26370.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3de47a20805211120t6efe2537vb9d11bfc06b0f57@mail.gmail.com>

I suspect that as the industry got better at the foundry process, they
improved things to the point where they no longer had to use a
different process for the two diodes, so they now sell you the same
diode no matter if you ask for the 914 or the 4148 (much like what
happens when you go in an autoparts store and ask for a replacement
alternator. They'll sell you one that mets or exceeds the specs of the
old one, but you'll notice the extra mounting holes that allow it to
work on other cars as well) Years ago I dug thru some old data books
and think I remember seeing that the diodes had slightly different
voltage ratings (like 5V)

You see this in tubes, where somebody was making a televsion set and
needed a slightly different spec, so a tube gets a different number
but in reality the repair guy just throws in the cheaper more common
one when he comes to replace it. Over time the numbers become
interchangable.

Tom C.

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 12:35 PM, James Elliott <johans121 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Cool!
> Thanks for the feedback everybody!
> -Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> To: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
> Cc: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:07:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes...
>
>
> On 21 May 2008, at 06:49, Paul Perry wrote:
>
>> If there's a difference, I've never noticed it!
>>
>> paul perry Melbourne Australia
>
> Me neither. I've even used them for fuzz circuits where you hear the
> characteristics directly and I can't hear any difference. Other types
> of diode (rectifiers, germaniums, LEDs, etc) usually give you a
> variation in the sound.
>
> T.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed May 21 20:51:57 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:51:57 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes..
In-Reply-To: <3de47a20805211120t6efe2537vb9d11bfc06b0f57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <351296.26370.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20805211120t6efe2537vb9d11bfc06b0f57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48346F4D.1040309@sonic.net>

Looking at the current Fairchild datasheets there is no difference 
between a 1N914 and a 1N4148.

However there are also 1N914A and 1N914B parts. For the forward voltage 
spec, these devices are tested with different foward currents.  For 
example, the 914 and 4148 are tested at 10mA, while the 914B is tested 
(and therefore has guaranteed performance) at both 5mA and 100mA.

-Dave

Tom Corbitt wrote:
> I suspect that as the industry got better at the foundry process, they
> improved things to the point where they no longer had to use a
> different process for the two diodes, so they now sell you the same
> diode no matter if you ask for the 914 or the 4148 (much like what
> happens when you go in an autoparts store and ask for a replacement
> alternator. They'll sell you one that mets or exceeds the specs of the
> old one, but you'll notice the extra mounting holes that allow it to
> work on other cars as well) Years ago I dug thru some old data books
> and think I remember seeing that the diodes had slightly different
> voltage ratings (like 5V)



From jason at redfish.net  Wed May 21 21:49:38 2008
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:49:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] kinda interesting audio arduino thing
In-Reply-To: <6110e6230805141603nbc3b85fp744a821b70a37cdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0620072ec4503f4dc224@10.0.1.201>
	<6110e6230805141603nbc3b85fp744a821b70a37cdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a06200735c45a2ce69ed6@[10.0.1.201]>

and in fact the ladyada blog just carried some code to set the audio 
playback rate from an analogue pin!




>Ah, interesting idea... I saw the "wave shield" a few days ago and
>couldn't really think of a use for it. But, this is definitely an
>interesting one!
>
>On the page, she says "Then it sets up the audio interrupt that will
>go off sample-rate times a second. For example, if its a 22KHz audio
>sample, the interrupt will go off 22,000 times a second!"
>
>My uneducated guess is that changing this rate should be possible, and
>could also be associated with one of the analog-input pins of the
>arduino. Maybe email ladyada directly and request that this option be
>added to the code library... seems like it might open up some
>possibilities!
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net> wrote:
>> 
>>http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2008/05/new-kit-wave-shield-for-arduino-plays-high-quality-audio/
>>
>>  i wonder whether the software supports playing the files at different
>>  speeds. hooked up with a voltage input on an analogue pin...
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Synth-diy mailing list
>>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Mike Beauchamp
>m: +64 21 0238 4145
>h: +64 4 801 8304
>http://mikebeauchamp.com
>http://therevox.com



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May 22 00:43:39 2008
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (anthony)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:43:39 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Digital noise source project (replacing MN5837 in Prophet
	5and Monopoly)
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>

I don't know if it's just IE7 or what, but yoiur webpage is almost 
unreadable for me. The menu is in the way.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Wiltshire" <tom at electricdruid.net>
To: "synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:34 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Digital noise source project (replacing MN5837 in Prophet 
5and Monopoly)


> Hi folks,
>
> After the recent discussion about digital noise sources and the  MN5837, I 
> tried out the code that Eric Brombaugh had found on the EDN  site. I 
> tweaked it a bit so that it never repeats (well, in 142  million years) 
> and did a circuit based on the Polyfusion Modular (you  gotta love 
> infra-red noise!) and I've put the results online:
>
> http://www.electricdruid.com/index.php?page=projects.noisegen
>
> I also made a few notes about replacing the MN5837 chip in the  Sequential 
> Prophet 5 and early Korg Monopoly.
>
> Hope this helps someone!
> Regards,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> 




From rtellason at verizon.net  Thu May 22 00:54:18 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:54:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes...
In-Reply-To: <546109.95977.qm@web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <546109.95977.qm@web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200805211854.18735.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 21 May 2008 00:36, James Elliott wrote:
> I have a newbie question that I need assistance with.
>
> Are 914 & 4148 diodes the same thing (or are they interchangeable)?
>
> I checked out the Fairchild data sheet and it seems like they are, but I
> can't tell for certain.

They sure do seem to be these days,  though I think at one point they were 
different parts...

I was of the impression (probably not quite correct these days) that the 1N914 
was capable of handling a bit more current and the 1N4148 was a bit faster,  
but I don't suppose in most uses it matters much.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From rtellason at verizon.net  Thu May 22 01:03:31 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 19:03:31 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes..
In-Reply-To: <3de47a20805211120t6efe2537vb9d11bfc06b0f57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <351296.26370.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3de47a20805211120t6efe2537vb9d11bfc06b0f57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200805211903.31364.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 21 May 2008 14:20, Tom Corbitt wrote:
> I suspect that as the industry got better at the foundry process, they
> improved things to the point where they no longer had to use a
> different process for the two diodes, so they now sell you the same
> diode no matter if you ask for the 914 or the 4148 (much like what
> happens when you go in an autoparts store and ask for a replacement
> alternator. They'll sell you one that mets or exceeds the specs of the
> old one, but you'll notice the extra mounting holes that allow it to
> work on other cars as well) Years ago I dug thru some old data books
> and think I remember seeing that the diodes had slightly different
> voltage ratings (like 5V)

There were diffrerences in spec,  but I believe that the process improvements 
you mention are a lot of it these days.  Like the 1N400x series rectifiers,  
it makes no sense to me to buy anything but the 1000V part,  and I've read 
somewhere that parts marked otherwise that are new actually cost more for the 
vairant marking but that they're all the same parts.

> You see this in tubes, where somebody was making a televsion set and
> needed a slightly different spec, so a tube gets a different number
> but in reality the repair guy just throws in the cheaper more common
> one when he comes to replace it. Over time the numbers become
> interchangable.

I think with tubes it went the other way,  where they were actually starting 
out as different tubes by different makers,  but that as makers merged and 
more than one type number started appearing on tubes that were similar 
enough,  the small differences were ironed out.  And there were often similar 
enough characteristics to be able to substitute one number for another,  I 
have a "tube substitution book" around here someplace from back in those 
days...

> Tom C.
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 12:35 PM, James Elliott <johans121 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Cool!
> > Thanks for the feedback everybody!
> > -Jim
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> > To: Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
> > Cc: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:07:02 AM
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] 914 & 4148 diodes...
> >
> > On 21 May 2008, at 06:49, Paul Perry wrote:
> >> If there's a difference, I've never noticed it!
> >>
> >> paul perry Melbourne Australia
> >
> > Me neither. I've even used them for fuzz circuits where you hear the
> > characteristics directly and I can't hear any difference. Other types
> > of diode (rectifiers, germaniums, LEDs, etc) usually give you a
> > variation in the sound.
> >
> > T.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu May 22 01:31:16 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (GRAHAM ATKINS)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 00:31:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digital noise source project (replacing MN5837 in Prophet
	5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <EA2AD7C8-D2D1-4E52-9114-668CC5CEB33D@blueyonder.co.uk>

I can see it perfectly OK,

Graham

On May 21, 2008, at 23:43, anthony wrote:

> I don't know if it's just IE7 or what, but yoiur webpage is almost  
> unreadable for me. The menu is in the way.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Wiltshire" <tom at electricdruid.net 
> >
> To: "synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:34 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] Digital noise source project (replacing MN5837 in  
> Prophet 5and Monopoly)
>
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> After the recent discussion about digital noise sources and the   
>> MN5837, I tried out the code that Eric Brombaugh had found on the  
>> EDN  site. I tweaked it a bit so that it never repeats (well, in  
>> 142  million years) and did a circuit based on the Polyfusion  
>> Modular (you  gotta love infra-red noise!) and I've put the results  
>> online:
>>
>> http://www.electricdruid.com/index.php?page=projects.noisegen
>>
>> I also made a few notes about replacing the MN5837 chip in the   
>> Sequential Prophet 5 and early Korg Monopoly.
>>
>> Hope this helps someone!
>> Regards,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu May 22 01:42:40 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 00:42:40 +0100
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project (replacing
	MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
Message-ID: <80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>


On 21 May 2008, at 23:43, anthony wrote:

> I don't know if it's just IE7 or what, but yoiur webpage is almost  
> unreadable for me. The menu is in the way.

Yes, someone else brought this to my attention too. It does seem to  
be an Explorer issue. I endeavoured to write a good, clean webpage  
technically speaking, and the pages validate to XHTML 1.0 Strict, so  
as far as I'm concerned that's as much as I can do. If your browser  
won't play with that, you should really think about upgrading.

I've had a bit of a hunt around to see if I can find a easy fix, but  
I'm not going to sweat over something that isn't my fault.

Thanks for the interest nonetheless,

Regards,
Tom




From blincoln at eventualdecline.com  Thu May 22 02:27:48 2008
From: blincoln at eventualdecline.com (Ben Lincoln)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:27:48 -0700
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <4834BE04.3020405@eventualdecline.com>

Not to give the impression that I'm a fan of IE (I use Firefox myself), 
but it's certainly possible to have a valid web page design with 
overlapping divs. I only glanced at your CSS file, but it appears that 
you're only specifying the vertical position of the menu box, and not 
the horizontal position. Is it possible that that ambiguity is what's 
causing the funny rendering in IE?

I had browsershots.org load it up, and it's interesting to see the 
differences in rendering between the various browsers:

http://browsershots.org/http://www.electricdruid.com/index.php?page=projects.noisegen

I'm still waiting on the more esoteric ones to load. The various 
flavours of IE are by far the worst, but there are some noticeable 
differences in the vertical spacing on the others that have loaded so far.

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> Yes, someone else brought this to my attention too. It does seem to be 
> an Explorer issue. I endeavoured to write a good, clean webpage 
> technically speaking, and the pages validate to XHTML 1.0 Strict, so 
> as far as I'm concerned that's as much as I can do. If your browser 
> won't play with that, you should really think about upgrading.


From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Thu May 22 02:37:00 2008
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 01:37:00 +0100
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <3111CF4A-2797-11DD-ABB8-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>

FWIW, it works fine on my old version of Safari for Mac (the version 
that shipped with OS10.3.4). I haven't tried downloading code, but 
navigation around the site is easy and quick.

Still using that OS version, because it works with a rock-solid 
Pro-tools LE6.4 with digi 001 + G4 933. It isn't broken. I haven't 
wasted time fixing it.  ;-)

cheers,
Dave

On May 22, 2008, at 00:42, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

>
> On 21 May 2008, at 23:43, anthony wrote:
>
>> I don't know if it's just IE7 or what, but yoiur webpage is almost 
>> unreadable for me. The menu is in the way.
>
> Yes, someone else brought this to my attention too. It does seem to be 
> an Explorer issue. I endeavoured to write a good, clean webpage 
> technically speaking, and the pages validate to XHTML 1.0 Strict, so 
> as far as I'm concerned that's as much as I can do. If your browser 
> won't play with that, you should really think about upgrading.
>
> I've had a bit of a hunt around to see if I can find a easy fix, but 
> I'm not going to sweat over something that isn't my fault.
>
> Thanks for the interest nonetheless,
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From mikebeauchamp at gmail.com  Thu May 22 05:47:26 2008
From: mikebeauchamp at gmail.com (Mike Beauchamp)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:47:26 +1200
Subject: [sdiy] kinda interesting audio arduino thing
In-Reply-To: <a06200735c45a2ce69ed6@10.0.1.201>
References: <a0620072ec4503f4dc224@10.0.1.201>
	<6110e6230805141603nbc3b85fp744a821b70a37cdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<a06200735c45a2ce69ed6@10.0.1.201>
Message-ID: <6110e6230805212047w21e79263i743c106c718b0402@mail.gmail.com>

Yuppers, I just saw this... now to do something with this! load
mellotron samples on some SD cards?

Mike


On 5/22/08, Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net> wrote:
> and in fact the ladyada blog just carried some code to set the audio
> playback rate from an analogue pin!
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ah, interesting idea... I saw the "wave shield" a few days ago and
> > couldn't really think of a use for it. But, this is definitely an
> > interesting one!
> >
> > On the page, she says "Then it sets up the audio interrupt that will
> > go off sample-rate times a second. For example, if its a 22KHz audio
> > sample, the interrupt will go off 22,000 times a second!"
> >
> > My uneducated guess is that changing this rate should be possible, and
> > could also be associated with one of the analog-input pins of the
> > arduino. Maybe email ladyada directly and request that this option be
> > added to the code library... seems like it might open up some
> > possibilities!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2008/05/new-kit-wave-shield-for-arduino-plays-high-quality-audio/
> > >
> > >  i wonder whether the software supports playing the files at different
> > >  speeds. hooked up with a voltage input on an analogue pin...
> > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  Synth-diy mailing list
> > >  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > >  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mike Beauchamp
> > m: +64 21 0238 4145
> > h: +64 4 801 8304
> > http://mikebeauchamp.com
> > http://therevox.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


-- 
Mike Beauchamp
m: +64 21 0238 4145
h: +64 4 801 8304
http://mikebeauchamp.com
http://therevox.com


From Brett.Maddaford at mailus.com.au  Thu May 22 06:14:42 2008
From: Brett.Maddaford at mailus.com.au (Brett Maddaford)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:14:42 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] accutronics reverb for modular
Message-ID: <C802AE4E7C88FA4EB8803059B997200D0DA68F17@CARLEMAIL01>

Hi Guys

 

I have a accutronics reverb here that I am wanting to use as a stand alone
reverb. I believe it to be an accutronics but can't find a mark but I think
it is.

The unit came from a Hammond organ, either a 126JM3 or 123J3 and it has the
amp pcb attached. It has a six pin connector running 5 wires to the reverb
(one soldered to the body of the reverb unit) and a pair going to either end
of the spring....obviously the in\out.

 

It has 9 pins on the pcb as well which is obviously to connect to the
original organ etc I was someone  might have something with the pinouts etc
and might know if its expecting a line level signal etc?

 

The only possible markings I can see on the amp are RA-1C and 223-36213A and
a stamp of 121 under the reverb amp marking.

 
Anyone know much about these?

 

Cheers

Brett


**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error
please delete the e-mail & notify the system manager.
We reserve the right to scan all e-mail traffic for restricted content
and to monitor all e-mail traffic in general.
The views and opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender 
and do not necessarily reflect the views of the organisation
by whom they are employed, except where the sender expressly
and with authority states them to be so.
This footnote also confirms that this email message
has been checked for the presence of computer viruses and script.
We believe but do not warrant that this e-mail is free from viruses.
Responsibility for virus checking rests entirely with the recipient.
5 at 356
**********************************************************************



From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Thu May 22 10:07:56 2008
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:07:56 +0200
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <4834BE04.3020405@eventualdecline.com>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
	<4834BE04.3020405@eventualdecline.com>
Message-ID: <20080522080755.GB12378@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2008-05-21 17:27 -0700, Ben Lincoln wrote:

> http://browsershots.org/

What a wonderful site ! I'd like to add in typical grumpy manner
that Tom would save himself and his readers trouble by losing that
annoying ever present navigation bar that makes his pages :

1. Harder to navigate by keyboard because you have to skip over a
   bunch of irrelevant links to get to the few links relevant to
   the page you are reading.

2. Harder to view and navigate on displays with less than about
   120 characters per line. Yes such displays still exist : I have
   a 21" monitor running at 1152 x 864 where the font choice means
   80 characters per line so that I can read it from two metres
   away. Also applies to browsers running on portable devices.

   Seeing the page through a smaller window also compounds the
   annoyance of having to tab through the navigation bar. The NB
   renders twice as tall as the screen. If it scrolls to show you
   the currently selected link, the page jumps about. If it
   doesn't, you fly blind. Either way you lose.

3. Harder to print without wasting paper and/or ink. Let alone in
   two columns.

The magic of HTML is that *all* those issues would be
instantaneously solved at no cost by pulling the text out of its
td and moving the navigation links to a menu on the root page.

Sorry for the public lambasting, Tom. Nothing personal. It could
have been about anyone else's site. Like Seb's, for instance. <g>

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Thu May 22 11:04:13 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:04:13 +0100
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source
	project	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <20080522080755.GB12378@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>	<4834BE04.3020405@eventualdecline.com>
	<20080522080755.GB12378@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <4835370D.1020806@burnit.co.uk>

Andre Majorel wrote:
> Sorry for the public lambasting, Tom. Nothing personal. It could
> have been about anyone else's site. Like Seb's, for instance. <g>
>
>   

Although to be fair about my website it does have a button at the top of 
every page "Click to view printable version of this page" which will 
switch to a difference stylesheet which I think solves all the problems 
you mention.  It remembers this 'setting' as you navigate from page to page.

http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/?style=print

Seb

P.S. I couldn't help noticing you didn't close your 'g' tag ... should 
it have been <g />  ;)





From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Thu May 22 12:50:58 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 06:50:58 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] A very simple Eagle question
Message-ID: <014C0329-BB77-4205-BF1F-E1E7376BA9BC@ece.gatech.edu>

So, I'm trying to learn Eagle again.

In RCL, there's a dizzying array of resistor packages. Which one  
corresponds to what one might think of as the "regular ordinary  
boring" 1/4" through-hole resistor?

- Aaron

P.S. Forgive me if I've asked this before...


From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Thu May 22 12:58:00 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:58:00 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] kinda interesting audio arduino thing
In-Reply-To: <a06200735c45a2ce69ed6@[10.0.1.201]>
References: <a0620072ec4503f4dc224@10.0.1.201>
	<6110e6230805141603nbc3b85fp744a821b70a37cdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<a06200735c45a2ce69ed6@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <FC69181B-D282-41D3-B9B7-3B9220D5E769@blauwurf.info>


see http://blip.tv/file/920755/

I just wondered if the circuit _has to_ be AC-coupled ...

    Michael.


On May 21, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Jason Proctor wrote:

> and in fact the ladyada blog just carried some code to set the audio  
> playback rate from an analogue pin!
>
>
>> Ah, interesting idea... I saw the "wave shield" a few days ago and
>> couldn't really think of a use for it. But, this is definitely an
>> interesting one!
>>
>> On the page, she says "Then it sets up the audio interrupt that will
>> go off sample-rate times a second. For example, if its a 22KHz audio
>> sample, the interrupt will go off 22,000 times a second!"
>>
>> My uneducated guess is that changing this rate should be possible,  
>> and
>> could also be associated with one of the analog-input pins of the
>> arduino. Maybe email ladyada directly and request that this option be
>> added to the code library... seems like it might open up some
>> possibilities!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net>  
>> wrote:
>>> http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2008/05/new-kit-wave-shield-for-arduino-plays-high-quality-audio/
>>>
>>> i wonder whether the software supports playing the files at  
>>> different
>>> speeds. hooked up with a voltage input on an analogue pin...
>>



--
hear the colours of noise: http://blauwurf.at






From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Thu May 22 13:01:58 2008
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:01:58 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] A very simple Eagle question
In-Reply-To: <014C0329-BB77-4205-BF1F-E1E7376BA9BC@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <OF034BF613.D05E1CD2-ONC1257451.003C7C59-C1257451.003D6AA4@jeppesen.com>

type 0207, grid 10 mm

cheers,
matthias
___
www.fonitronik.de


synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 05/22/2008 12:50:58 PM:

> So, I'm trying to learn Eagle again.
> 
> In RCL, there's a dizzying array of resistor packages. Which one 
> corresponds to what one might think of as the "regular ordinary 
> boring" 1/4" through-hole resistor?
> 
> - Aaron
> 
> P.S. Forgive me if I've asked this before...
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Thu May 22 13:18:00 2008
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:18:00 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] kinda interesting audio arduino thing
In-Reply-To: <FC69181B-D282-41D3-B9B7-3B9220D5E769@blauwurf.info>
References: <a0620072ec4503f4dc224@10.0.1.201>
	<6110e6230805141603nbc3b85fp744a821b70a37cdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<a06200735c45a2ce69ed6@[10.0.1.201]>
	<FC69181B-D282-41D3-B9B7-3B9220D5E769@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <48225DCD-D993-4EE9-8316-DA8499C41B47@blauwurf.info>


On May 22, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Michael Zacherl wrote:

>
> see http://blip.tv/file/920755/
>
> I just wondered if the circuit _has to_ be AC-coupled ...

"The output is filtered through a bypass capacitor C9 which will keep  
any DC voltage from going to the speaker, which could damage it."

So if that would be the only reason...

But if just the playback takes so much space for the code it's not  
really the ideal device for more:

"* Can this shield record audio?
There is no hook-up for a microphone, so there is no easy way to  
record audio. There is also not enough program space on the current  
Arduino chips (atmega168) to support recording audio and saving it to  
the SD card as well as playback."
<http://ladyada.net/make/waveshield/faq.html>

It's not feasible ... not really ...

    Michael.




> On May 21, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Jason Proctor wrote:
>
>> and in fact the ladyada blog just carried some code to set the  
>> audio playback rate from an analogue pin!
>>
>>
>>> Ah, interesting idea... I saw the "wave shield" a few days ago and
>>> couldn't really think of a use for it. But, this is definitely an
>>> interesting one!
>>>
>>> On the page, she says "Then it sets up the audio interrupt that will
>>> go off sample-rate times a second. For example, if its a 22KHz audio
>>> sample, the interrupt will go off 22,000 times a second!"
>>>
>>> My uneducated guess is that changing this rate should be possible,  
>>> and
>>> could also be associated with one of the analog-input pins of the
>>> arduino. Maybe email ladyada directly and request that this option  
>>> be
>>> added to the code library... seems like it might open up some
>>> possibilities!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:05 AM, Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net>  
>>> wrote:
>>>> http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2008/05/new-kit-wave-shield-for-arduino-plays-high-quality-audio/
>>>>
>>>> i wonder whether the software supports playing the files at  
>>>> different
>>>> speeds. hooked up with a voltage input on an analogue pin...
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> hear the colours of noise: http://blauwurf.at
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From loscha at gmail.com  Thu May 22 14:15:45 2008
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 22:15:45 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] International / ETI / Maplin 3600 and 4600 Schematics /
	Workbook
Message-ID: <17035a3d0805220515h5c1faabbk8bcd115091b35c71@mail.gmail.com>

 International also known as the Maplin, also known as the ETI.
 Cover: http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/2513750832/

 The "Goods"
 http://www.loscha.com/miller/International_Modular.pdf

 This is a bit different from my usual scans. I removed the staples
and  scanned the book in as a book.
 So, you print it out on double sided paper, staple it in the middle,
and have yourself a real book!
 I thought it was a nifty change, and was quick and easy for me on the
 work copier.

 Also presenting today .....
 Emu Drumulator Documents.

 http://www.loscha.com/miller/DrumlatorPrelim.pdf
 Preliminary version of schematics

 http://www.loscha.com/miller/DrumulatorTricks.pdf
 Some notes on interfacing your Drumulator to other equipment. Who has
 to be the master, and who has to be the slave.
 Drumulator doesn't always wear the pants, it seems, depending on the
width of the pulse it is meant to receive (Ooh Aah matron!)

 http://www.loscha.com/miller/DrumulatorGraphicEditor.pdf
 Craig Anderton's manual for the Drumulator software for the Apple IIe


From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu May 22 16:43:03 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:43:03 +0100
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <20080522080755.GB12378@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
	<4834BE04.3020405@eventualdecline.com>
	<20080522080755.GB12378@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <F12B6CB2-3D90-4131-8773-90B620F68BFD@electricdruid.net>

Thanks for all the comments. The browsershots.org site is indeed a  
marvel.

What it shows me is that there are problems with various versions of  
IE (although IE8 finally gets things right) but that the site is fine  
on Firefox, Opera, Safari, Konqueror and others.

Andre's comments about usability and keyboard navigation are mostly  
fair - although I'd have to say your taste in websites might be a  
little "old school", Andre! Most people expect to be able to navigate  
to any major page in a site from any other major page, without  
constant use of the back button to get them to the top level again.

I'll look into moving the menu below the content to make keyboard  
navigation easier and to avoid shoving the content a long way down on  
small screens. I might also adopt Seb's approach and offer a  
different "print friendly" stylesheet.

Finally, sorry for using up the bandwidth with totally non-synth  
stuff. There are much better forums for discussion of web design  
issues. Wasn't my intention, but you know the way things go...

Regards,
Tom


On 22 May 2008, at 09:07, Andre Majorel wrote:

> On 2008-05-21 17:27 -0700, Ben Lincoln wrote:
>
>> http://browsershots.org/
>
> What a wonderful site ! I'd like to add in typical grumpy manner
> that Tom would save himself and his readers trouble by losing that
> annoying ever present navigation bar that makes his pages :
>
> 1. Harder to navigate by keyboard because you have to skip over a
>    bunch of irrelevant links to get to the few links relevant to
>    the page you are reading.
>
> 2. Harder to view and navigate on displays with less than about
>    120 characters per line. Yes such displays still exist : I have
>    a 21" monitor running at 1152 x 864 where the font choice means
>    80 characters per line so that I can read it from two metres
>    away. Also applies to browsers running on portable devices.
>
>    Seeing the page through a smaller window also compounds the
>    annoyance of having to tab through the navigation bar. The NB
>    renders twice as tall as the screen. If it scrolls to show you
>    the currently selected link, the page jumps about. If it
>    doesn't, you fly blind. Either way you lose.
>
> 3. Harder to print without wasting paper and/or ink. Let alone in
>    two columns.
>
> The magic of HTML is that *all* those issues would be
> instantaneously solved at no cost by pulling the text out of its
> td and moving the navigation links to a menu on the root page.
>
> Sorry for the public lambasting, Tom. Nothing personal. It could
> have been about anyone else's site. Like Seb's, for instance. <g>
>
> -- 
> Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
> Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
> See the URL above for contact information.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>





From DavidO at matinee.co.uk  Thu May 22 16:48:41 2008
From: DavidO at matinee.co.uk (David Osborne)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:48:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Mystery IC
Message-ID: <DC85E4B7AC965F46A10E8B1A07BBD09401951EB7@colossus.matinee.local>

Hi everyone,

I have little bag of a mysterious chip which I do not know how to identify. They are an 8pin DIP labelled TL487CP, with a texas Intruments logo. I've searched the intertubes, and cannot find anything to give a clue as to what it may be, let alone a datasheet. I assume it is quite old, as the TI website does not come up with anything from that part number.
Does anyone have any ideas how one may go about looking for information about it?

Regards
Davido

David Osborne
AV Studio Manager
Matin?e Sound & Vision Limited
132-134 Oxford Road
Reading
RG1 7NL
Tel:     0118 958 4934
Email:DavidO at matinee.co.uk
Web:   www.matinee.co.uk

This message and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. If you receive it in error, please notify the sender. If you are not the named addressee you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on the contents of this message and should delete it immediately. You are advised to carry out a virus check before opening any attachment and the sender accepts no liability for loss or damage resulting from infected email transmissions. Any views or opinions expressed are those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views of Matin?e.
Should you communicate with anyone at Matin?e by email, you consent to us monitoring and reading any such correspondence.
Registered in England, company registration number 03606770. Registered Office: Overdene House, 49 Church Street, Theale, Berks RG7 5BX



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Thu May 22 17:27:46 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:27:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Mystery IC
Message-ID: <20080522153039.TJBD219.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

David,

> I have little bag of a mysterious chip which I do not know
> how to identify. They are an 8pin DIP labelled TL487CP,
> with a texas Intruments logo.

A quick search shows up the TL487 may be a level detector.  For example:

http://www.tech-systems-labs.com/heathkitparts.htm
http://www.d8apro.com/heath3.htm

A search on the IEEE website shows:

TL487:  "Five-step analog level detector is a log-input version of TI's TL489"

So that might give you something a bit more to go on.

Neil


--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk

-----------------------------------------
Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email
Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam



From don at till.com  Thu May 22 18:18:08 2008
From: don at till.com (Donald Tillman)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:18:08 -0700
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net> (message
	from Tom Wiltshire on Thu, 22 May 2008 00:42:40 +0100)
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <m27idmmhxb.fsf@till.com>

   > From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
   > Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 00:42:40 +0100
   > 
   > Yes, someone else brought this to my attention too. It does seem to  
   > be an Explorer issue. I endeavoured to write a good, clean webpage  
   > technically speaking, and the pages validate to XHTML 1.0 Strict, so  
   > as far as I'm concerned that's as much as I can do. If your browser  
   > won't play with that, you should really think about upgrading.

There are serious bugs in MSIE6 and MSIE7 that break the presentation
of fixed position elements.  MSIE6 doesn't implement fixed positioning
at all, and MSIE7 doesn't do the positioning correctly.  (Lovely!)

But there are workarounds; it is possible to do a site that displays
fixed positioning in browsers that implement the W3C standards
(Firefox, Safari, etc), still display correctly in MSIE7, and still
display in a graceful way in MSIE6.

I had a similar problem with my BayProg site (progressive rock music
resources for local San Francisco Bay area musicians and fans:
http://www.bayprog.org).  I built it in XHTML 1.0 Strict, and similar
to you I did a fixed position header and menu, and the fixed
positioning was missing in MSIE6 and way off in MSIE7.  I was finally
able to spend some time to work around it, and you can check out the
style sheet there.

The trick is to first pretend that you're running on MSIE6 where fixed
positioning is not supported, get that looking good, then add CSS ">"
child selector feature specs, which MSIE6 ignores, to do your fixed
positioned specs, and for other elements that need to be moved over to
accommodate fixed positioned elements.  And avoid the parameters that
MSIE7 screws up.

Yes, it completely sucks, but that's what you have to do.

(Note that even the official W3C style sheet page hacks around this.
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/   Aiiiighhh!!)

(If you're interested in this crazy stuff I highly recommend the book
"The Zen of CSS Design" by Dave Shea and Molly Holzschlag.  It has an
accompanying web site: http://www.csszengarden.com .  It's a very cool
project; these folks created a basic web page in XHTML 1.0 Strict with
absolutely no formatting, and invited creative artists to make it
pretty, but only by submitting CSS style sheets.  The contestants
weren't allowed to change the HTML at all.  The results are
impressive, and the book uses the examples as an opportunity to
discuss all sorts of presentation issues.)

(If can hype my BayProg site, then it's not entirely off topic,
right?)

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From jason at redfish.net  Thu May 22 23:08:18 2008
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:08:18 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] kinda interesting audio arduino thing
In-Reply-To: <48225DCD-D993-4EE9-8316-DA8499C41B47@blauwurf.info>
References: <a0620072ec4503f4dc224@10.0.1.201>
	<6110e6230805141603nbc3b85fp744a821b70a37cdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<a06200735c45a2ce69ed6@[10.0.1.201]>
	<FC69181B-D282-41D3-B9B7-3B9220D5E769@blauwurf.info>
	<48225DCD-D993-4EE9-8316-DA8499C41B47@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <a06200769c45b8ebc8cd4@[10.0.1.201]>

IIRC, there are analogue pins on the basic Arduino board that could 
be used for CV ins and outs.

the thing looks sufficiently interesting for me to pick one up. 
initially i'll probably write some CV and clock processing goodies 
and park it behind a modular panel. then i'll move on to MIDI and 
audio later. i'll advise on progress as and when it happens.



>On May 22, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Michael Zacherl wrote:
>
>>
>>see http://blip.tv/file/920755/
>>
>>I just wondered if the circuit _has to_ be AC-coupled ...
>
>"The output is filtered through a bypass capacitor C9 which will 
>keep any DC voltage from going to the speaker, which could damage 
>it."
>
>So if that would be the only reason...
>
>But if just the playback takes so much space for the code it's not 
>really the ideal device for more:
>
>"* Can this shield record audio?
>There is no hook-up for a microphone, so there is no easy way to 
>record audio. There is also not enough program space on the current 
>Arduino chips (atmega168) to support recording audio and saving it 
>to the SD card as well as playback."
><http://ladyada.net/make/waveshield/faq.html>
>
>It's not feasible ... not really ...
>
>    Michael.




From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Thu May 22 23:57:42 2008
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 22:57:42 +0100
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <F12B6CB2-3D90-4131-8773-90B620F68BFD@electricdruid.net>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
	<4834BE04.3020405@eventualdecline.com>
	<20080522080755.GB12378@aym.net2.nerim.net>
	<F12B6CB2-3D90-4131-8773-90B620F68BFD@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <1A919357-284A-11DD-8021-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>


On May 22, 2008, at 15:43, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> Finally, sorry for using up the bandwidth with totally non-synth 
> stuff. There are much better forums for discussion of web design 
> issues. Wasn't my intention, but you know the way things go...
> Regards,
> Tom

No apologies needed at all - the list is interested in synth DIY, and 
the details involved in accessing a URL that's involved in synth DIY 
strikes me as a valid subject for discussion here. It's definitely 
relevant, although perhaps not quite as entertainingly silly as the 
Nordic Walking thread, for example ;-)

cheers,
Dave



From rainer at buchty.net  Fri May 23 00:00:40 2008
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 00:00:40 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <m27idmmhxb.fsf@till.com>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
	<m27idmmhxb.fsf@till.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805222353160.12043@archimobil>

On Thu, 22 May 2008, Donald Tillman wrote:

> Yes, it completely sucks, but that's what you have to do.

Why? I mean, obviously, the MSIEs seem to be broken, so why work around 
their defects?

Yes, I know -- they come preinstalled with Windows, but if everyone 
works around their defects, where's the incentive for Microsoft to 
fix them?

It's not like you would tweak your hardware to fulfill the needs of 
let's say a broken VCA where you would have to attenuate the signal to 
some nanovolts level to not get distorted, having to re-amplify it after 
the VCA.

You'd rather repair the VCA.

So why doing the opposite in software?

Rainer


From u2arte26 at gmail.com  Fri May 23 00:02:51 2008
From: u2arte26 at gmail.com (Fabio Gonzalez)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 19:02:51 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Mystery IC
In-Reply-To: <DC85E4B7AC965F46A10E8B1A07BBD09401951EB7@colossus.matinee.local>
References: <DC85E4B7AC965F46A10E8B1A07BBD09401951EB7@colossus.matinee.local>
Message-ID: <282bb2f40805221502w7a733628g78ad6b354623872f@mail.gmail.com>

Not datasheet, just.. asciisheet?

TL487C
IC Voltage Level Indicator, 5 steps, Log response, Open Collector Outputs

pin 1 = ground
pin 2 = Q1 |
pin 3 = Q2 | All outputs
pin 4 = Q3 | Open collector
pin 5 = Q4 |
pin 6 = Q5 |
pin 7 = Vcc (12Vdc max)
pin 8 = Analog In (no idea about the range)

Hope it helps,

Fabio
.

On 5/22/08, David Osborne <DavidO at matinee.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
>  I have little bag of a mysterious chip which I do not know how to identify. They are an 8pin DIP labelled TL487CP, with a texas Intruments logo. I've searched the intertubes, and cannot find anything to give a clue as to what it may be, let alone a datasheet. I assume it is quite old, as the TI website does not come up with anything from that part number.
>  Does anyone have any ideas how one may go about looking for information about it?
>
>  Regards
>  Davido
>
>  David Osborne
>  AV Studio Manager
>  Matin?e Sound & Vision Limited
>  132-134 Oxford Road
>  Reading
>  RG1 7NL
>  Tel:     0118 958 4934
>  Email:DavidO at matinee.co.uk
>  Web:   www.matinee.co.uk
>
>  This message and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. If you receive it in error, please notify the sender. If you are not the named addressee you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on the contents of this message and should delete it immediately. You are advised to carry out a virus check before opening any attachment and the sender accepts no liability for loss or damage resulting from infected email transmissions. Any views or opinions expressed are those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views of Matin?e.
>  Should you communicate with anyone at Matin?e by email, you consent to us monitoring and reading any such correspondence.
>  Registered in England, company registration number 03606770. Registered Office: Overdene House, 49 Church Street, Theale, Berks RG7 5BX
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Synth-diy mailing list
>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From jason at redfish.net  Fri May 23 00:24:11 2008
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:24:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] kinda interesting audio arduino thing
In-Reply-To: <4835EF4C.40702@acm.org>
References: <a0620072ec4503f4dc224@10.0.1.201>
	<6110e6230805141603nbc3b85fp744a821b70a37cdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<a06200735c45a2ce69ed6@[10.0.1.201]>
	<FC69181B-D282-41D3-B9B7-3B9220D5E769@blauwurf.info>
	<48225DCD-D993-4EE9-8316-DA8499C41B47@blauwurf.info>
	<a06200769c45b8ebc8cd4@[10.0.1.201]> <4835E971.9050804@acm.org>
	<a06200771c45b9abc5cf0@[10.0.1.201]> <4835EF4C.40702@acm.org>
Message-ID: <a06200778c45ba2d041a6@[10.0.1.201]>

hey Martin (& list)

thanks for the info. now some of the stuff i've read about analogue 
I/O being PWM makes some sense :-)

well, i took the plunge and ordered an Arduino and Wave Shield. can't 
wait to start hacking with it.



>Hi Jason
>
>Erm, I always forget to ensure I answer on the list - feel free to 
>reply on the list again to keep the discussion in the public (if 
>not, that's fine too).
>
>Jason Proctor wrote:
>>i have to confess my ignorance -- what does it mean when the 
>>analogue outputs are PWM?
>
>Pulse width modulation. It's not actually an analog output, but a 
>digital one with a programmable duty cycle. This is fine for 
>controlling the brightness of an LED or driving a motor, but it 
>definitely needs low-pass filtering in order to get a usable CV. 
>I've never tried this myself.
>
>>i've been waiting for an "embedded" environment that fits my 
>>requirements for a while and i think this one is it -- (a) cheap 
>>(b) USB with Mac support (c) language that i know (C++). should be 
>>very easy to knock together some clock processing etc modules.
>
>Definitely give it a try, it's really cool and as easy as it gets. 
>Once you want to go a bit beyond the original intention of the 
>design, just read the ATmega 168 datasheet and start hacking away. 
>While the Arduino development environment is designed to hide all 
>the "complexity", it doesn't prevent you from digging deeper.
>
>Bye
>Martin
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Jason,
>>>
>>>Jason Proctor wrote:
>>>>IIRC, there are analogue pins on the basic Arduino board that 
>>>>could be used for CV ins and outs.
>>>
>>>The outputs are PWM, with a default frequency of about 500Hz 
>>>(although hackable - but be aware of side-effects...). There are 6 
>>>analog inputs (8 if you take one of the surface mount variants) - 
>>>not extremely precise, but they should be perfectly fine for a lot 
>>>of cool CV trickery.
>>>
>>>I've done some projects with the Arduino. It's an extremely easy 
>>>to use environment. Although after getting my feet wet with that 
>>>platform, I now just take a bare AVR chip for the stuff I do, 
>>>unless I need the USB or Bluetooth connection - that saves space 
>>>and money once you've invested a modest sum into the AVRisp 
>>>programmer.
>>>
>>>Bye
>>>Martin



From jvastine at charter.net  Fri May 23 00:54:34 2008
From: jvastine at charter.net (jvastine)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:54:34 -0400
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805222353160.12043@archimobil>
Message-ID: <20080522185434.FLLZ8.257065.root@fepweb07>

As one who has been a programmer for more years than I care to recall, I do agree on this issue. It is a web publishers job to adhere to the standards as best they can There exist several good web browsers that are free, easy to install, and are customizable for the users needs. Firefox & Opera are the top in this category. I think that Opera is actually the better browser as it has a smaller footprint, uses less memory, and is faster.

The problem with all versions of IE is the fact that Microsoft attempted to create their own standards in an attempt to lock people into using their products. I personally find this distasteful to say the least and do not endorse any of Microsoft's products because of things like that. There are alternatives to the MS OS's that prove to be more secure and stable. I would suggest a recent Linux release for the majority on this list as they have matured and no longer require the user to tweak everything or fiddle with driver modifications. Plus you can't beat the value for the cost and there is a large library of open source software at your disposal too. Try downloading a live distro, which means that it runs from a cd without requiring any installation to the hard drive, then take it for a test drive. Try either Mandriva or Ubuntu as they are rather slick distros. Or one could always get a Mac!

Has anybody heard yet that MS is discontinuing their support for XP shortly? Seems that they are forcing everyone to upgrade to Vista. There is much that I could say about this, but I would get banned from the list for profanity! lol Anyway, it looks like now is a good time to migrate to Linux.

Regards,
jvastine

---- Rainer Buchty <rainer at buchty.net> wrote: 
On Thu, 22 May 2008, Donald Tillman wrote:

> Yes, it completely sucks, but that's what you have to do.

Why? I mean, obviously, the MSIEs seem to be broken, so why work around 
their defects?

Yes, I know -- they come preinstalled with Windows, but if everyone 
works around their defects, where's the incentive for Microsoft to 
fix them?

It's not like you would tweak your hardware to fulfill the needs of 
let's say a broken VCA where you would have to attenuate the signal to 
some nanovolts level to not get distorted, having to re-amplify it after 
the VCA.

You'd rather repair the VCA.

So why doing the opposite in software?

Rainer
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jvastine at charter.net  Fri May 23 00:55:16 2008
From: jvastine at charter.net (jvastine)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:55:16 -0400
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
Message-ID: <20080522185516.LTTZ8.257101.root@fepweb07>

As one who has been a programmer for more years than I care to recall, I do agree on this issue. It is a web publishers job to adhere to the standards as best they can There exist several good web browsers that are free, easy to install, and are customizable for the users needs. Firefox & Opera are the top in this category. I think that Opera is actually the better browser as it has a smaller footprint, uses less memory, and is faster.

The problem with all versions of IE is the fact that Microsoft attempted to create their own standards in an attempt to lock people into using their products. I personally find this distasteful to say the least and do not endorse any of Microsoft's products because of things like that. There are alternatives to the MS OS's that prove to be more secure and stable. I would suggest a recent Linux release for the majority on this list as they have matured and no longer require the user to tweak everything or fiddle with driver modifications. Plus you can't beat the value for the cost and there is a large library of open source software at your disposal too. Try downloading a live distro, which means that it runs from a cd without requiring any installation to the hard drive, then take it for a test drive. Try either Mandriva or Ubuntu as they are rather slick distros. Or one could always get a Mac!

Has anybody heard yet that MS is discontinuing their support for XP shortly? Seems that they are forcing everyone to upgrade to Vista. There is much that I could say about this, but I would get banned from the list for profanity! lol Anyway, it looks like now is a good time to migrate to Linux.

Regards,
jvastine

---- Rainer Buchty <rainer at buchty.net> wrote: 
On Thu, 22 May 2008, Donald Tillman wrote:

> Yes, it completely sucks, but that's what you have to do.

Why? I mean, obviously, the MSIEs seem to be broken, so why work around 
their defects?

Yes, I know -- they come preinstalled with Windows, but if everyone 
works around their defects, where's the incentive for Microsoft to 
fix them?

It's not like you would tweak your hardware to fulfill the needs of 
let's say a broken VCA where you would have to attenuate the signal to 
some nanovolts level to not get distorted, having to re-amplify it after 
the VCA.

You'd rather repair the VCA.

So why doing the opposite in software?

Rainer
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From don at till.com  Fri May 23 02:10:04 2008
From: don at till.com (Donald Tillman)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:10:04 -0700
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805222353160.12043@archimobil> (message from
	Rainer Buchty on Fri, 23 May 2008 00:00:40 +0200 (CEST))
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
	<m27idmmhxb.fsf@till.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805222353160.12043@archimobil>
Message-ID: <m263t5nan7.fsf@till.com>

(Way, way, way off topic warning!  Although you could argue that since
many of us maintain web pages, its relevant, but that's tenuous at
best.  To make up for it, I'll try to be entertaining.)

   > Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 00:00:40 +0200 (CEST)
   > From: Rainer Buchty <rainer at buchty.net>
   > 
   > On Thu, 22 May 2008, Donald Tillman wrote:
   > 
   > > Yes, it completely sucks, but that's what you have to do.
   > 
   > Why? I mean, obviously, the MSIEs seem to be broken, so why work
   > around their defects?

Speaking as someone who does this for a living...  :-)

If you want to do a nice presentation you have to work around the
limitations of your customer's browsers, whatever those limitations
might be.  Some web applications have a consumer audience and
therefore need to work correctly on just about any browser, including
your grandmother's browser, while other application exist inside an
organization with a more select audience.

   > Yes, I know -- they come preinstalled with Windows, but if everyone 
   > works around their defects, where's the incentive for Microsoft to 
   > fix them?

I agree that incentive is a powerful force.  

And there is some incentive.  It's not a good thing for Microsoft if
web developers all over the world are swearing at them every time one
of these browser bugs needs to be hacked around.  And that's exactly
what's been happening for a while.

And Microsoft needs to fix these things anyway in order to implement
the more advanced stuff that's going to be necessary soon.

But since the web developer looks bad if their page doesn't display
well on MSIE, and a bigger incentive for the web developer to make
pages that work around Microsoft's bugs.

   > It's not like you would tweak your hardware to fulfill the needs
   > of let's say a broken VCA where you would have to attenuate the
   > signal to some nanovolts level to not get distorted, having to
   > re-amplify it after the VCA.
   > 
   > You'd rather repair the VCA.

I understand your point, but that's not the best example.  Many of us
have hacked around broken hardware, and none of us are going to be
fixing MSIE7.  :-)

Sure, I would rather that Microsoft fixed their browser, but that
hasn't happened, and since we live in the real world and not an
abstract theoretical pretend world, web developers just have to deal
with it.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From synthnerd at eircom.net  Fri May 23 02:32:52 2008
From: synthnerd at eircom.net (John Henson)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 01:32:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MS20 woes
Message-ID: <004601c8bc6c$8a132720$0301000a@mulder>

Hi all
I am in the middle of repairing a Korg MS20,
The problem it came in with was an endless drone once a key was played.
I obviously zoned in on the envelope generator section, and did find
anomylous behaviour in that area.
I replaced the 4069UBC chip (after changing everything else), and it sort of
works, but if the sustain control is turned up, there is a long delay until
the output VCA is shut down.
Any thoughts or wisdom on this one?
Regards
John



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Fri May 23 09:35:03 2008
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Aaron Lanterman)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 03:35:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Capacitor sizes for Eagle
In-Reply-To: <OF034BF613.D05E1CD2-ONC1257451.003C7C59-C1257451.003D6AA4@jeppesen.com>
References: <OF034BF613.D05E1CD2-ONC1257451.003C7C59-C1257451.003D6AA4@jeppesen.com>
Message-ID: <B9FF3099-1F8E-4BF7-921F-8C007921B7CC@ece.gatech.edu>

Now that I've happily put some op amps and resistors on my schematic,  
I'm now wondering about capacitors.

Are there some rules of thumb for about what sizes to allocate on the  
board for capacitors of various values?

While we're on the subject of capacitors - I have two kits coming from  
Jameco, one with ceramic disks and another with mylar. Are there rules  
of thumb of when to use one or the other? (I know for things like VCOs  
you want polysterine, but I don't know much beyond that).

- Aaron

On May 22, 2008, at 7:01 AM, Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com wrote:

> type 0207, grid 10 mm
>
> cheers,
> matthias


From jhaible at debitel.net  Fri May 23 12:30:38 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 12:30:38 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Scanner news
Message-ID: <002601c8bcc0$0b6b8e40$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

A registered letter from Olimex arrived today.
Interpolating Scanner / Scanner Vibrato prototype board is here!
I'm so excited - I'll start soldering this right now.
(The full version with inductors for Hammond Chorus/Vibrato.
The Interpolating Scanner will use a partly populated PCB only.)

I'll keep you updated ...

JH.


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Fri May 23 13:49:56 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 06:49:56 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Capacitor sizes for Eagle
In-Reply-To: <B9FF3099-1F8E-4BF7-921F-8C007921B7CC@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <OF034BF613.D05E1CD2-ONC1257451.003C7C59-C1257451.003D6AA4@jeppesen.com>
	<B9FF3099-1F8E-4BF7-921F-8C007921B7CC@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <20080523114912.M34348@wowway.com>

Google "Harry Bissell" capacitor and you should get my
paper on the subject...

H^) harry


On Fri, 23 May 2008 03:35:03 -0400, Aaron Lanterman wrote
> Now that I've happily put some op amps and resistors on my schematic,
>   I'm now wondering about capacitors.
> 
> Are there some rules of thumb for about what sizes to allocate on 
> the  board for capacitors of various values?
> 
> While we're on the subject of capacitors - I have two kits coming 
> from  Jameco, one with ceramic disks and another with mylar. Are 
> there rules  of thumb of when to use one or the other? (I know for 
> things like VCOs  you want polysterine, but I don't know much beyond 
> that).
> 
> - Aaron
> 
> On May 22, 2008, at 7:01 AM, Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com wrote:
> 
> > type 0207, grid 10 mm
> >
> > cheers,
> > matthias
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Fri May 23 14:09:24 2008
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 14:09:24 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Capacitor sizes for Eagle
In-Reply-To: <B9FF3099-1F8E-4BF7-921F-8C007921B7CC@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <OFA508D72A.87F01C7E-ONC1257452.0041CDDD-C1257452.004397E6@jeppesen.com>

synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 05/23/2008 09:35:03 AM:
> Now that I've happily put some op amps and resistors on my schematic, 
> I'm now wondering about capacitors.
> 
> Are there some rules of thumb for about what sizes to allocate on the 
> board for capacitors of various values?

for common unpolarized capacitors i use a .2in package (eagle: i.e. 
C-US050-025x075). that's okay for most of the ceramic (mono or multi) and 
polycarbonate(?) metallized film (i.e WIMA) capacitors.
for polystyrene and/or mylar i allways take a look at the datasheets...

cheers,
matthias
___
www.fonitronik.de

> 
> While we're on the subject of capacitors - I have two kits coming from 
> Jameco, one with ceramic disks and another with mylar. Are there rules 
> of thumb of when to use one or the other? (I know for things like VCOs 
> you want polysterine, but I don't know much beyond that).
> 
> - Aaron
> 
> On May 22, 2008, at 7:01 AM, Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com wrote:
> 
> > type 0207, grid 10 mm
> >
> > cheers,
> > matthias
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jluciani at gmail.com  Fri May 23 14:21:51 2008
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:21:51 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Capacitor sizes for Eagle
In-Reply-To: <B9FF3099-1F8E-4BF7-921F-8C007921B7CC@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <OF034BF613.D05E1CD2-ONC1257451.003C7C59-C1257451.003D6AA4@jeppesen.com>
	<B9FF3099-1F8E-4BF7-921F-8C007921B7CC@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <608bfe540805230521i79220961icbc68363747ca6f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 3:35 AM, Aaron Lanterman
<lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:

> Are there some rules of thumb for about what sizes to allocate on the board
> for capacitors of various values?

For TH boards I try to place components on a 50mil grid (sometimes  25mil)
and route on a 25mil grid. I leave apx 25mils space between the bodies of
components.

Also when making component footprints I make the silkscreen body
outline the same
size as the maximum specs of the component body. When I do a 1:1 printout
I can see the exact placement. For TH boards I would recommend doing
1:1 printouts and placing the actual components on the paper for verification.

(* jcl *)

-- 
http://www.luciani.org


From jimp at pobox.com  Fri May 23 15:50:15 2008
From: jimp at pobox.com (Jim Palmer)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:50:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] source for Joysticks
References: <988b7c650805201325o75b246e2o9ef74d3304e1dba9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005701c8bcdb$f5cb72f0$6401a8c0@jpshuttle>

here's some surplus 5k ubercheap
replacing the pots would not be easy, but with the use of a buffer, they 
should be fine...

https://www.electronicsurplus.com/commerce/catalog/product.jsp?product_id=71233&czuid=1211550432117


> I'm looking for a reasonably priced source for joysticks, similar
> those used in the Wiard Joystick Controller.  I've looked all over,
> anybody have any suggestions?
>
> -Travis



From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Fri May 23 23:33:45 2008
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragon.servicing)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 22:33:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] sustain pedal info for RMI 386X? electrapiano
Message-ID: <48373839.2050700@googlemail.com>

Hi,
just wondered if anyone knew what type of sustain pedal and volume pedal 
the RMI 386X uses. ( I mean normally closed or normally open ? ) or is 
it more complex ?
these seem to be quite rare in europe ?
as I've got one to visit to  repair that is missing the pedal.
sorry if this is off topic.
regards Peter



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sat May 24 01:51:54 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 00:51:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
Message-ID: <EDFE1B60-6544-4F8B-807D-663257750FB7@electricdruid.net>

You don't see THESE every day:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10pc-NEW-SSM2040-VCF-sequential-circuits- 
prophet-5- 
LTD_W0QQitemZ290230749972QQihZ019QQcategoryZ29552QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1 
QQcmdZViewItem

They're not cheap, but then, they wouldn't be, would they?!

T.



From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Sat May 24 02:28:10 2008
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 17:28:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
In-Reply-To: <EDFE1B60-6544-4F8B-807D-663257750FB7@electricdruid.net>
References: <EDFE1B60-6544-4F8B-807D-663257750FB7@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE0D2@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>

So in 5-10 years, will Prophet 5's and Memorymoogs be 10K$ - or less than
they are now?  At 50 bucks a pop to replace chips now it gets kinda scary
holding on to them when the chips seem just to die from old age (and they
ARE old).

Barry


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:52 PM
To: synth DIY
Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay

You don't see THESE every day:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10pc-NEW-SSM2040-VCF-sequential-circuits- 
prophet-5- 
LTD_W0QQitemZ290230749972QQihZ019QQcategoryZ29552QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1 
QQcmdZViewItem

They're not cheap, but then, they wouldn't be, would they?!

T.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Sat May 24 03:35:14 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 18:35:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] expo circuit
Message-ID: <483770D2.9080705@sonic.net>

I was looking at JH's String Filter schematics 
(http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_sch.pdf)
and the resonance expo circuit with the transistor (Q4) connected as a 
reverse biased diode seemed similar to something I'd seen before (lower 
right on the schematic).  A little digging shows it is very similar to 
the synthi expo (as seen in the schematics on the Hinton site: 
http://www.hinton-instruments.co.uk/ems/vcs3osc1.gif).

So...what exactly is the function of Q1 and Q4? Does it give better 
conformance?

-Dave



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat May 24 04:27:25 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 12:27:25 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] expo circuit
In-Reply-To: <483770D2.9080705@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <006201c8bd45$b4d5e950$8501a8c0@ice9>

Temperature compensation? (just a guess!)

Paul perry Melbourne Australia




From james at ticalun.net  Sat May 24 04:47:10 2008
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 21:47:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
In-Reply-To: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE0D2@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
References: <EDFE1B60-6544-4F8B-807D-663257750FB7@electricdruid.net>
	<6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE0D2@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
Message-ID: <014701c8bd48$7739a2a0$65ace7e0$@net>

Yes, I suspect they will be that expensive.  However, I am holding out hope
that with miniaturization, you should be able to make compatible discrete
replacements for the chips in smt format.  Should be possible, shouldn't it?
Most of the synths have extra space in the carcass so there should be room
for a really small board that would fit over the chip socket.  At least,
that's what I'm hoping.

James R. Coplin
(???)

***************************************
Work is the Curse of the Drinking Class
***************************************
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Barry Klein
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:28 PM
> To: synth DIY
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
> 
> So in 5-10 years, will Prophet 5's and Memorymoogs be 10K$ - or less
> than
> they are now?  At 50 bucks a pop to replace chips now it gets kinda
> scary
> holding on to them when the chips seem just to die from old age (and
> they
> ARE old).
> 
> Barry
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:52 PM
> To: synth DIY
> Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
> 
> You don't see THESE every day:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10pc-NEW-SSM2040-VCF-sequential-circuits-
> prophet-5-
> LTD_W0QQitemZ290230749972QQihZ019QQcategoryZ29552QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ
> 1
> QQcmdZViewItem
> 
> They're not cheap, but then, they wouldn't be, would they?!
> 
> T.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From dlmanley at sonic.net  Sat May 24 10:07:51 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 01:07:51 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] expo circuit
In-Reply-To: <483770D2.9080705@sonic.net>
References: <483770D2.9080705@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4837CCD7.5020400@sonic.net>

Dave Manley wrote:
> I was looking at JH's String Filter schematics 
> (http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_sch.pdf)
> and the resonance expo circuit with the transistor (Q4) connected as a 
> reverse biased diode seemed similar to something I'd seen before 
> (lower right on the schematic).  A little digging shows it is very 
> similar to the synthi expo (as seen in the schematics on the Hinton 
> site: http://www.hinton-instruments.co.uk/ems/vcs3osc1.gif).
>
> So...what exactly is the function of Q1 and Q4? Does it give better 
> conformance?
>
> -Dave
>
To partially answer my own question - according to my copy of the IC 
Array Cookbook,
the reverse biased junction acts as a zener diode (~7V). Q1 together 
with Q4 and the pullup
resistor form a constant current source for the diff pair.

Is this a fairly straightforward and robust expo or are there subtleties 
to watch out for?

-Dave


From julian at port23.co.uk  Sat May 24 10:28:27 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 09:28:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Den-on SC7000ZA vs Hakko 808 vs Hakko 701
Message-ID: <002101c8bd78$2654b570$0301a8c0@legba>

Im just getting to the point where my time is worth the cost of one of these units (or at least would be if i lived somwhere where i 
could get one at close to the US price)

Anyone got any comments on the Den-on vs the 808 (or, depending what i can get hold of, maybee the 701 station)

Im in europe (220/240v) - im thinking it may be worth my while buying an import and using a transofmer, but its not ideal (more 
bench space, wires, etc.etc.) so id rather buy a correct voltage version if it were sensible...

Any comments, suppliers, etc. most welcome.

Thank you,
Julian



-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 8677 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len




From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat May 24 10:29:22 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 10:29:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] expo circuit
References: <483770D2.9080705@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <002001c8bd78$450e2820$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Q4 is the reference (zener diode), Q1 is the servo amp (where others use an 
opamp), and Q2+Q3 is the differential pair.

JH.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Manley" <dlmanley at sonic.net>
To: "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 3:35 AM
Subject: [sdiy] expo circuit


I was looking at JH's String Filter schematics 
(http://www.jhaible.heim.at/string_filter/jh_string_filter_sch.pdf)
and the resonance expo circuit with the transistor (Q4) connected as a 
reverse biased diode seemed similar to something I'd seen before (lower 
right on the schematic).  A little digging shows it is very similar to 
the synthi expo (as seen in the schematics on the Hinton site: 
http://www.hinton-instruments.co.uk/ems/vcs3osc1.gif).

So...what exactly is the function of Q1 and Q4? Does it give better 
conformance?

-Dave

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat May 24 10:33:41 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 10:33:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] expo circuit
References: <483770D2.9080705@sonic.net> <4837CCD7.5020400@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <002801c8bd78$df8af450$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

>Q1 together
>with Q4 and the pullup
>resistor form a constant current source for the diff pair.

Well, it holds the current thru *one* of the transistors constant, just like 
about every opamp-based expo converter does.

JH. 



From steve.moorby at ntlworld.com  Sat May 24 12:10:02 2008
From: steve.moorby at ntlworld.com (Steve Moorby)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 11:10:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Q SysEx spec
Message-ID: <1211623802.2840.2.camel@sound-machine>

Hi,
	Anyone know where I can get the sys ex spec for a Waldorf Q.  It's not
in the user manual and not on the Waldorf web site.  Also the user group
email address results in a DNS error and I don't get any reply from
Waldorf support. :-(

I feel sure this list will know :-)

Thanks
Steve



From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sat May 24 15:22:15 2008
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 16:22:15 +0300
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <m263t5nan7.fsf@till.com>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
	<m27idmmhxb.fsf@till.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805222353160.12043@archimobil>
	<m263t5nan7.fsf@till.com>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80805240622i24d12220u75ae4ec431da9eb2@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry. OT. Bitchin' . This topic is still a mess. And we can't fix it,
I suppose? ;)

Back, way back in times, before w3c gave up, someone said it: "HTML
isn't WYSIWYG, it's to represent information". Well, we have moved on.

So, don't get me wrong - You can impress me with great visuals and aesthetics.

Still I hail for Rainers strict standard compliance message.

Don: "Workaround", "Good Enough" - Is this the message You want to give?
"In the Real World we rather code JS browser detection and hacks
rather than doing w3c compliant pages"?

As user of first browser on "Your Platform" to pass Acid2 test - I get
pretty mad when told "Upgrade to IE4" or if You get the drift - the
page renders ok in Opera, but some "Web Designer" has desided to put
in "I don't understand Your UserAgent, I don't serve You" script.
Cool.

Don't get me started on Firefox - this "alternative" has gathered "Web
Designer" following too - "we support FireFox too, sorry Your browser
isn't supported"

For all "Web Designers" on the list - Quit it or do it compliant.

Uh, oh yeah. Toms, Sebs and Dons pages render just fine ;) And I might
be the first to put "Flash Intro"... uh, nevermind,

Samppa


From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Sat May 24 16:43:25 2008
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 15:43:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
In-Reply-To: <014701c8bd48$7739a2a0$65ace7e0$@net>
Message-ID: <C45DE81D.3E2%paul.maddox.mail-list@synth.net>

James,

 this is what somsone did for the Prophet VS, the 30 channel S&H chip was
rare when they made them. So they made a replacement board using discrete
S&Hs to replace it, sweet.

Paul

On 24/5/08 03:47, "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net> wrote:

> Yes, I suspect they will be that expensive.  However, I am holding out hope
> that with miniaturization, you should be able to make compatible discrete
> replacements for the chips in smt format.  Should be possible, shouldn't it?
> Most of the synths have extra space in the carcass so there should be room
> for a really small board that would fit over the chip socket.  At least,
> that's what I'm hoping.
> 
> James R. Coplin
> (???)
> 
> ***************************************
> Work is the Curse of the Drinking Class
> ***************************************
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
>> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Barry Klein
>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:28 PM
>> To: synth DIY
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
>> 
>> So in 5-10 years, will Prophet 5's and Memorymoogs be 10K$ - or less
>> than
>> they are now?  At 50 bucks a pop to replace chips now it gets kinda
>> scary
>> holding on to them when the chips seem just to die from old age (and
>> they
>> ARE old).
>> 
>> Barry
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:52 PM
>> To: synth DIY
>> Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
>> 
>> You don't see THESE every day:
>> 
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10pc-NEW-SSM2040-VCF-sequential-circuits-
>> prophet-5-
>> LTD_W0QQitemZ290230749972QQihZ019QQcategoryZ29552QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ
>> 1
>> QQcmdZViewItem
>> 
>> They're not cheap, but then, they wouldn't be, would they?!
>> 
>> T.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From don at till.com  Sat May 24 18:14:07 2008
From: don at till.com (Donald Tillman)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 09:14:07 -0700
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80805240622i24d12220u75ae4ec431da9eb2@mail.gmail.com>
	(samppa.tolvanen@gmail.com)
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
	<m27idmmhxb.fsf@till.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805222353160.12043@archimobil>
	<m263t5nan7.fsf@till.com>
	<fa1b0bd80805240622i24d12220u75ae4ec431da9eb2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2zlqfllww.fsf@till.com>

   > Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 16:22:15 +0300
   > From: "Samppa Tolvanen" <samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com>
   > 
   > Still I hail for Rainers strict standard compliance message.
   > 
   > Don: "Workaround", "Good Enough" - Is this the message You want
   > to give?  "In the Real World we rather code JS browser detection
   > and hacks rather than doing w3c compliant pages"?

Please don't misquote me, I never said any of that.  That's very much
the opposite of my message.

My point was that being W3C compliant is important, but it's not
enough because the browsers people use don't always implement W3C
correctly.  Which is exactly what started this discussion.

So you need to be W3C compliant *and* you need to adjust the style
sheet so that the page displays acceptably in all likely browsers.

Side note: 
The W3C offers a very nice validation service:
  http://validator.w3.org

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sat May 24 19:30:20 2008
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 20:30:20 +0300
Subject: Off topic: IE7 was Re: [sdiy] Digital noise source project
	(replacing MN5837 in Prophet 5and Monopoly)
In-Reply-To: <m2zlqfllww.fsf@till.com>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>
	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>
	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>
	<m27idmmhxb.fsf@till.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805222353160.12043@archimobil>
	<m263t5nan7.fsf@till.com>
	<fa1b0bd80805240622i24d12220u75ae4ec431da9eb2@mail.gmail.com>
	<m2zlqfllww.fsf@till.com>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80805241030q28a403fbp332432aa41eb7a6b@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/24/08, Donald Tillman <don at till.com> wrote:
>    > Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 16:22:15 +0300
>    > From: "Samppa Tolvanen" <samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com>
>
>    >
>    > Still I hail for Rainers strict standard compliance message.
>    >
>    > Don: "Workaround", "Good Enough" - Is this the message You want
>    > to give?  "In the Real World we rather code JS browser detection
>    > and hacks rather than doing w3c compliant pages"?
>
>
> Please don't misquote me, I never said any of that.  That's very much
>  the opposite of my message.
>
Please.

>  My point was that being W3C compliant is important, but it's not
>  enough because the browsers people use don't always implement W3C
>  correctly.  Which is exactly what started this discussion.
>
Can I ask You, Which was the browser Your not mentioning here?
>
>  So you need to be W3C compliant *and* you need to adjust the style
>  sheet so that the page displays acceptably in all likely browsers.
>
No - You do w3c compliant pages. Period.

>  Side note:
>  The W3C offers a very nice validation service:
>   http://validator.w3.org
>
Yes - Looks like "My Browser" has that on drop down menu. Damn.

Samppa


From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sat May 24 20:59:33 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 20:59:33 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Q SysEx spec
In-Reply-To: <1211623802.2840.2.camel@sound-machine>
References: <1211623802.2840.2.camel@sound-machine>
Message-ID: <200805242059.33931.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Samstag 24 Mai 2008, Steve Moorby wrote:
> 	Anyone know where I can get the sys ex spec for a Waldorf Q.  It's
> not in the user manual and not on the Waldorf web site.

http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs

Google used to find this very nicely, but it seems they have changed 
things again - it won't show up in the first 100 results or so until 
you specify the filetype as PDF.  I'll try to add a few search terms 
when I find the time as "MIDI implementation Waldorf Q" would still 
find it in the top spot.

> Also the
> user group email address results in a DNS error and I don't get any
> reply from Waldorf support. :-(

Do you by any chance try to use the domain for the (now defunct) old 
Waldorf GmbH?  The Waldorf User forum can now be found here:

http://www.waldorf-forum.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-forum

The website is here:

http://www.waldorfmusic.de/en/home

The support email address is here:

mailto:support at waldorfmusic.de


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf rackAttack:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds



From blincoln at eventualdecline.com  Sat May 24 21:31:09 2008
From: blincoln at eventualdecline.com (Ben Lincoln)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 12:31:09 -0700
Subject: Off topic: Browser Compatibility (was Re: IE7 was Re: [sdiy]
	Digital noise source project)
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80805241030q28a403fbp332432aa41eb7a6b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CBF1268F-3FE2-4039-8B33-8A349ED9DF88@electricdruid.net>	<00cb01c8bb94$1ebf3320$0202a8c0@positronium>	<80FE6251-B269-4B9A-B660-EBFF72FC0ACF@electricdruid.net>	<m27idmmhxb.fsf@till.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805222353160.12043@archimobil>	<m263t5nan7.fsf@till.com>	<fa1b0bd80805240622i24d12220u75ae4ec431da9eb2@mail.gmail.com>	<m2zlqfllww.fsf@till.com>
	<fa1b0bd80805241030q28a403fbp332432aa41eb7a6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48386CFD.5060100@eventualdecline.com>

Samppa Tolvanen wrote:
> No - You do w3c compliant pages. Period.
>   
Being W3C compliant doesn't really guarantee anything. Being 
standards-compliant is great, but if a good chunk of visitors can't read 
your site, what's the point?

It is certainly possible to design web sites that will look at least 
acceptable in every major browser without using conditional code. Here's 
one of mine:

http://browsershots.org/http://www.thelostworlds.net/SR1/index.html

http://browsershots.org/http://www.thelostworlds.net/Software/The_Eye_of_RAW.html

http://browsershots.org/http://www.thelostworlds.net/Library/PC.html

They don't show up on those pages because I changed the design to remove 
them, but I remember a few differences between IE and Firefox for 
example in terms of how they render tables. When I looked into it, I 
could see how the ambiguity in the W3C standard would allow either 
interpretation.

My pages pass W3C validation, but so do Tom's, which (without the 
conditional code) don't display correctly in IE. The vast majority of 
people at this time are using IE to browse the web*; whether someone 
thinks that's a horrifying thing or not is irrelevant. It doesn't make 
sense to shut those people out of viewing a website when it's trivial to 
work around the problem using conditional code (or using a design that 
doesn't require it, but that would mean many more time-consuming 
changes). If someone is going to take the time to share information 
online, they should take a few extra minutes to help make sure that it 
can reach as many people as possible, not play elitist about a 
particular standard or browser of the week being required to view it - 
whether it was IE 4 in 1997 or Firefox/Opera in 2008.

* My employer has a public-facing retail website, so I've heard the 
statistics about our customer base. Not only are most of them using IE, 
but as of a year or two ago a non-trivial percentage were using browsers 
so old that they didn't support 128-bit SSL.


From doggymuffin at hotmail.com  Sat May 24 22:46:19 2008
From: doggymuffin at hotmail.com (david leith)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 13:46:19 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] tempco
Message-ID: <BLU138-W130162E9EB5AC3DDC68EBBA2C00@phx.gbl>


I'm pretty sure I recently saw a link here to somebodies website who was assembling a tempco resistor using a SMT one, adding wire leads and then dipping in epoxy. Can anyone refer me to that site? Thanks dave 
_________________________________________________________________




From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sat May 24 23:12:49 2008
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 00:12:49 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] tempco
In-Reply-To: <BLU138-W130162E9EB5AC3DDC68EBBA2C00@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU138-W130162E9EB5AC3DDC68EBBA2C00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80805241412o50ae9537p41dd93223c22116c@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/24/08, david leith <doggymuffin at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  I'm pretty sure I recently saw a link here to somebodies website who was assembling a tempco resistor using a SMT one, adding wire leads and then dipping in epoxy. Can anyone refer me to that site? Thanks dave


Yeah,

Don't speak about it.  This: http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCO/vco_quad.htm

Samppa


From jays at aracnet.com  Sun May 25 00:09:11 2008
From: jays at aracnet.com (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 14:09:11 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] tempco
In-Reply-To: <BLU138-W130162E9EB5AC3DDC68EBBA2C00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGKEMODCAA.jays@aracnet.com>

I think that would be Dave Brown's site.

http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mankato/mse.htm

Jay S.


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of david leith
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:46 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] tempco



I'm pretty sure I recently saw a link here to somebodies website who was
assembling a tempco resistor using a SMT one, adding wire leads and then
dipping in epoxy. Can anyone refer me to that site? Thanks dave
_________________________________________________________________


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From james at ticalun.net  Sun May 25 02:09:37 2008
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 19:09:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] When to use voltage regulators and when to use resistors?
Message-ID: <00f201c8bdfb$9f2a2740$dd7e75c0$@net>

Probably a pretty silly question but I'm wondering when to consider voltage
regulators versus knocking down voltage with resistors.  In my particular
case, I'm adding some modules to my rack mounted SEMs.  The SEMs run off of
18.5v but the additional circuitry I want to add expects 15v.  Should I put
a 15v regulator on or can I just pad down the 18.5 volts coming from the
power supply with appropriate resistor values?  I have plenty of spare
amperage in the supply to handle the additional modules, I'm just not so
sure about getting the voltage down to the 15v. Thanks!

James R. Coplin
(???)

***************************************
Work is the Curse of the Drinking Class
***************************************
 





From dave.leith at gmail.com  Sun May 25 02:13:26 2008
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 17:13:26 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] tempco
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80805241412o50ae9537p41dd93223c22116c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU138-W130162E9EB5AC3DDC68EBBA2C00@phx.gbl>
	<fa1b0bd80805241412o50ae9537p41dd93223c22116c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eaacbb730805241713o124e8ff4jda0079277add6f1d@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, both links are great!


On 5/24/08, Samppa Tolvanen <samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/24/08, david leith <doggymuffin at hotmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  >  I'm pretty sure I recently saw a link here to somebodies website who was assembling a tempco resistor using a SMT one, adding wire leads and then dipping in epoxy. Can anyone refer me to that site? Thanks dave
>
>
>
> Yeah,
>
>  Don't speak about it.  This: http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCO/vco_quad.htm
>
>
>  Samppa
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Synth-diy mailing list
>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From geow at pacificcoast.net  Sun May 25 02:37:40 2008
From: geow at pacificcoast.net (George Welsh)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 17:37:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] tempco
In-Reply-To: <BLU138-W130162E9EB5AC3DDC68EBBA2C00@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU138-W130162E9EB5AC3DDC68EBBA2C00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <004d01c8bdff$899f2e80$9cdd8b80$@net>

This fellow did it when he built a Mankato filter. I tried it myself and it
worked. I have only tried it with the filter, don't know how well it works
for a VCO.

http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/mankato/mse.htm

George


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of david leith
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:46 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] tempco


I'm pretty sure I recently saw a link here to somebodies website who was
assembling a tempco resistor using a SMT one, adding wire leads and then
dipping in epoxy. Can anyone refer me to that site? Thanks dave 
_________________________________________________________________


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008
8:56 AM



From derennep at brutele.be  Sun May 25 09:10:13 2008
From: derennep at brutele.be (Philippe Derenne)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 09:10:13 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] When to use voltage regulators and when to use resistors?
References: <00f201c8bdfb$9f2a2740$dd7e75c0$@net>
Message-ID: <002b01c8be36$60df2f90$0264a8c0@c2d266>

Hi James,

Depending on the current drawn by the 15 V modules, the resistor will need 
to dissipate more or less power.
For 100 mA, R will be 35 ohms, let's say 33, and will handle 0.33 W.
For 500 mA, R will be 7 ohms, let's say 6.8, and will handle  1.7 W.
For 1 A,  R will be 3.5 ohms, let's say 3.3, and will handle  3.3 W.

Another point : when you'll add more modules, you'll need to adjust the 
resistor to keep the right voltage

I would use a resistor (and a zener) for a few mA, but for 50 mA and up, I'd 
go for the 7815, or another discrete components (zener and transistor) 
regulator.

Phil.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 2:09 AM
Subject: [sdiy] When to use voltage regulators and when to use resistors?


> Probably a pretty silly question but I'm wondering when to consider 
> voltage
> regulators versus knocking down voltage with resistors.  In my particular
> case, I'm adding some modules to my rack mounted SEMs.  The SEMs run off 
> of
> 18.5v but the additional circuitry I want to add expects 15v.  Should I 
> put
> a 15v regulator on or can I just pad down the 18.5 volts coming from the
> power supply with appropriate resistor values?  I have plenty of spare
> amperage in the supply to handle the additional modules, I'm just not so
> sure about getting the voltage down to the 15v. Thanks!
>
> James R. Coplin
> (???)
>
> ***************************************
> Work is the Curse of the Drinking Class
> ***************************************
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From ka4hjh at gte.net  Sun May 25 09:21:38 2008
From: ka4hjh at gte.net (KA4HJH)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 03:21:38 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] When to use voltage regulators and when to use resistors?
In-Reply-To: <00f201c8bdfb$9f2a2740$dd7e75c0$@net>
References: <00f201c8bdfb$9f2a2740$dd7e75c0$@net>
Message-ID: <p062408cdc45ec1063b0d@[192.168.1.101]>

>Probably a pretty silly question but I'm wondering when to consider voltage
>regulators versus knocking down voltage with resistors.  In my particular
>case, I'm adding some modules to my rack mounted SEMs.  The SEMs run off of
>18.5v but the additional circuitry I want to add expects 15v.  Should I put
>a 15v regulator on or can I just pad down the 18.5 volts coming from the
>power supply with appropriate resistor values?  I have plenty of spare
>amperage in the supply to handle the additional modules, I'm just not so
>sure about getting the voltage down to the 15v. Thanks!

The SEM's have on-board regulation which drops the +/-18.5 to +/-15V
(there's one spot that actually uses +18.5V, IIRC). The easiest thing to do
is duplicate this scheme. Resistors are a bad idea and TTR's are cheap.

The one snag is that you have to use a regulator that can operate with an
input only 2.5V above the output. A 7815 won't work. Tom used a 723 and a
discrete transistor along with all the extra circuitry. Are there low drop
15V TTR's these days? 5V ones seem to be common enough.

How much current do you need? You always swipe a little from the SEM. I get
the impression  you're doing something which will require more current.

You could always go back to your 18.5V supply and add a 15V section...

Any mistakes in this posting are someone else's fault.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From derennep at brutele.be  Sun May 25 09:41:14 2008
From: derennep at brutele.be (Philippe Derenne)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 09:41:14 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] When to use voltage regulators and when to use resistors?
References: <00f201c8bdfb$9f2a2740$dd7e75c0$@net>
	<p062408cdc45ec1063b0d@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <003201c8be3a$b5aacf30$0264a8c0@c2d266>

... as I remember, 18.5 minus 15 is 3.5  ;^)

Looking at the 7815 datasheet, minimum Vin is 17.7 V => no problem

Phil.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "KA4HJH" <ka4hjh at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] When to use voltage regulators and when to use 
resistors?


> >Probably a pretty silly question but I'm wondering when to consider 
> >voltage
>>regulators versus knocking down voltage with resistors.  In my particular
>>case, I'm adding some modules to my rack mounted SEMs.  The SEMs run off 
>>of
>>18.5v but the additional circuitry I want to add expects 15v.  Should I 
>>put
>>a 15v regulator on or can I just pad down the 18.5 volts coming from the
>>power supply with appropriate resistor values?  I have plenty of spare
>>amperage in the supply to handle the additional modules, I'm just not so
>>sure about getting the voltage down to the 15v. Thanks!
>
> The SEM's have on-board regulation which drops the +/-18.5 to +/-15V
> (there's one spot that actually uses +18.5V, IIRC). The easiest thing to 
> do
> is duplicate this scheme. Resistors are a bad idea and TTR's are cheap.
>
> The one snag is that you have to use a regulator that can operate with an
> input only 2.5V above the output. A 7815 won't work. Tom used a 723 and a
> discrete transistor along with all the extra circuitry. Are there low drop
> 15V TTR's these days? 5V ones seem to be common enough.
>
> How much current do you need? You always swipe a little from the SEM. I 
> get
> the impression  you're doing something which will require more current.
>
> You could always go back to your 18.5V supply and add a 15V section...
>
> Any mistakes in this posting are someone else's fault.
>
> -- 
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From DavidO at matinee.co.uk  Sun May 25 10:24:45 2008
From: DavidO at matinee.co.uk (David Osborne)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 09:24:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Mystery IC
Message-ID: <DC85E4B7AC965F46A10E8B1A07BBD09401951EC0@colossus.matinee.local>

Many thanks everyone, that has all been really useful. 
Looks like they could make a handy little cv quantizer or waveshaper/distorter maybe...
As soon as i get a weekend off work, I'll see what I can come up with.
 
davido


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Parkhurst [mailto:tim.parkhurst at gmail.com]
Sent: 22 May 2008 23:16
To: Fabio Gonzalez
Cc: David Osborne; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Mystery IC


Interesting. It sounds sort of like half a LM3915 bar graph chip... with open collector outputs.

Tim (sounds like... ) Servo
-- 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein


On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Fabio Gonzalez <u2arte26 at gmail.com> wrote:

Not datasheet, just.. asciisheet?

TL487C
IC Voltage Level Indicator, 5 steps, Log response, Open Collector Outputs

pin 1 = ground
pin 2 = Q1 |
pin 3 = Q2 | All outputs
pin 4 = Q3 | Open collector
pin 5 = Q4 |
pin 6 = Q5 |
pin 7 = Vcc (12Vdc max)
pin 8 = Analog In (no idea about the range)

Hope it helps,

Fabio
.


On 5/22/08, David Osborne <DavidO at matinee.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
>  I have little bag of a mysterious chip which I do not know how to identify. They are an 8pin DIP labelled TL487CP, with a texas Intruments logo. I've searched the intertubes, and cannot find anything to give a clue as to what it may be, let alone a datasheet. I assume it is quite old, as the TI website does not come up with anything from that part number.
>  Does anyone have any ideas how one may go about looking for information about it?
>
>  Regards
>  Davido
>
>  David Osborne
>  AV Studio Manager
>  Matin?e Sound & Vision Limited
>  132-134 Oxford Road
>  Reading
>  RG1 7NL
>  Tel:     0118 958 4934
>  Email:DavidO at matinee.co.uk
>  Web:   www.matinee.co.uk
>
>  This message and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. If you receive it in error, please notify the sender. If you are not the named addressee you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on the contents of this message and should delete it immediately. You are advised to carry out a virus check before opening any attachment and the sender accepts no liability for loss or damage resulting from infected email transmissions. Any views or opinions expressed are those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views of Matin?e.
>  Should you communicate with anyone at Matin?e by email, you consent to us monitoring and reading any such correspondence.
>  Registered in England, company registration number 03606770. Registered Office: Overdene House, 49 Church Street, Theale, Berks RG7 5BX
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Synth-diy mailing list
>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

  



From tensiontype at hotmail.com  Sun May 25 14:54:47 2008
From: tensiontype at hotmail.com (Sean Ellis)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 14:54:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OB-12 screen repair help
References: <BLU138-W130162E9EB5AC3DDC68EBBA2C00@phx.gbl>
	<fa1b0bd80805241412o50ae9537p41dd93223c22116c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-DAV7ACE79E6437329C40B75AB3C30@phx.gbl>

My beloved OB-12 has developed the common black lines on the screen and I 
was wondering if anyone has any experience in fixing these. Maybe someone 
who knows how lcds work might be able to tell if its a damaged screen or 
something else. Basicaly there are about 10-12 lines that are premanently 
black, they dont respond to inverting the screen either. I have checked the 
ribbon cable connecting to the screen and it seems OK. Any ideas? These 
synths have a long hisotry of problems with the screens, either with the 
same problem I have or flickering/dying backlights.

I'm guessing I'll need to replace the screen which will be a pain to source 
since Viscount has completly disowned this synth. 



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun May 25 18:39:58 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 17:39:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
In-Reply-To: <014701c8bd48$7739a2a0$65ace7e0$@net>
References: <EDFE1B60-6544-4F8B-807D-663257750FB7@electricdruid.net>
	<6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE0D2@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
	<014701c8bd48$7739a2a0$65ace7e0$@net>
Message-ID: <EFA7037F-193C-4C77-AB29-EA838DE9E59A@electricdruid.net>

Eminently do-able, I'd have thought.
The SSM2040 might be famous, but it isn't complicated. There's  
4xTransconductance amps and 4x Op-amp buffers on the chip, and that's  
about it. No resonance VCA even.

If I were to try a SMD copy, I'd probably start with Analog Devices  
SSM2164 quad VCA for the transconductance amps, and some basic op-amp  
for the buffers. I suppose the real trick is getting it to sound  
right. Still, Prophets will be making noises for some years yet, even  
after all the 2040's die.

T.



On 24 May 2008, at 03:47, James R. Coplin wrote:

> Yes, I suspect they will be that expensive.  However, I am holding  
> out hope
> that with miniaturization, you should be able to make compatible  
> discrete
> replacements for the chips in smt format.  Should be possible,  
> shouldn't it?
> Most of the synths have extra space in the carcass so there should  
> be room
> for a really small board that would fit over the chip socket.  At  
> least,
> that's what I'm hoping.
>
> James R. Coplin
> (???)
>
> ***************************************
> Work is the Curse of the Drinking Class
> ***************************************
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
>> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Barry Klein
>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:28 PM
>> To: synth DIY
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
>>
>> So in 5-10 years, will Prophet 5's and Memorymoogs be 10K$ - or less
>> than
>> they are now?  At 50 bucks a pop to replace chips now it gets kinda
>> scary
>> holding on to them when the chips seem just to die from old age (and
>> they
>> ARE old).
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tom  
>> Wiltshire
>> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:52 PM
>> To: synth DIY
>> Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
>>
>> You don't see THESE every day:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10pc-NEW-SSM2040-VCF-sequential-circuits-
>> prophet-5-
>> LTD_W0QQitemZ290230749972QQihZ019QQcategoryZ29552QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr 
>> dZ
>> 1
>> QQcmdZViewItem
>>
>> They're not cheap, but then, they wouldn't be, would they?!
>>
>> T.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From solution at netcabo.pt  Sun May 25 19:10:41 2008
From: solution at netcabo.pt (alf holm)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 18:10:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] hello again
Message-ID: <8852AED5-3849-4B2B-B610-3289FF11AE33@netcabo.pt>

http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/


From modulemania at gmail.com  Sun May 25 19:42:11 2008
From: modulemania at gmail.com (cs e)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 11:42:11 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Opus 3 VCF Envelope
Message-ID: <9f3adf770805251042o78ba065ej5e5023136cf29348@mail.gmail.com>

Wondering if anyone has experience with a Moog Opus 3 or an
Attack/Decay envelope using the 4053 Multiplexer IC...

Essentially, I'd like to mod the VCF envelope to have more
'room-to-breathe' in the faster portions of its 'decay' time.

I find that the most usable range for its 'decay slider' is only
half-way to the very bottom (millimeters of range here at the bottom)
positions.  It almost works like an on/off slider...I'm constantly
fighting it trying to get the right decay time - it's either too fast
or too long.

Looking at the Moog Opus 3 schematics, the VCF Envelope is made with a
couple of 4053 multiplexers.  I don't understand how this envelope
works enough to mod it myself.  On the schematics, it appears that the
'decay' slider is going to two different places (two different
sections of a 4053).

Perhaps the solution is as simple as reducing/increasing the resistors
on pin 2?  I appreciate any help or ideas.

Chris


From speedghost at btinternet.com  Sun May 25 21:23:38 2008
From: speedghost at btinternet.com (Adam Fothergill)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 20:23:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
In-Reply-To: <EFA7037F-193C-4C77-AB29-EA838DE9E59A@electricdruid.net>
References: <EDFE1B60-6544-4F8B-807D-663257750FB7@electricdruid.net>
	<6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE0D2@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
	<014701c8bd48$7739a2a0$65ace7e0$@net>
	<EFA7037F-193C-4C77-AB29-EA838DE9E59A@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <F38034EB-EDB3-4A08-9E58-4B10D60B3AB2@btinternet.com>

I've been eager for a solution like this for new projects quite a few  
years now, although for the 2044, given all the remaining chips on  
ebay are now just starting to peak up in price.
If someone is brave enough give it a go!  because I really don't want  
to go and buy a bunch of 2044's and smoke them, if I'd feel really  
bad about them not going towards keeping a good vintage synth running  
somewhere.

On a side note, and given I've always wanted a 2040 based p5 but far  
too worried about keeping one running,  I wonder if it would be  
feasible to retrofy a Prophet 08 with some 2040 like circuits ? :)   
Im not totally blown away by the sound of it from the demos, and  
wonder if the 2040 like treatment could bold it up a bit to be more  
like the earlier 5's with the possibility of more modern circuits  
around.  Maybe I should try and get a listen in person sometime.


On 25 May 2008, at 17:39, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> Eminently do-able, I'd have thought.
> The SSM2040 might be famous, but it isn't complicated. There's  
> 4xTransconductance amps and 4x Op-amp buffers on the chip, and  
> that's about it. No resonance VCA even.
>
> If I were to try a SMD copy, I'd probably start with Analog Devices  
> SSM2164 quad VCA for the transconductance amps, and some basic op- 
> amp for the buffers. I suppose the real trick is getting it to  
> sound right. Still, Prophets will be making noises for some years  
> yet, even after all the 2040's die.
>
> T.
>
>
>
> On 24 May 2008, at 03:47, James R. Coplin wrote:
>
>> Yes, I suspect they will be that expensive.  However, I am holding  
>> out hope
>> that with miniaturization, you should be able to make compatible  
>> discrete
>> replacements for the chips in smt format.  Should be possible,  
>> shouldn't it?
>> Most of the synths have extra space in the carcass so there should  
>> be room
>> for a really small board that would fit over the chip socket.  At  
>> least,
>> that's what I'm hoping.
>>
>> James R. Coplin
>> (???)
>>
>> ***************************************
>> Work is the Curse of the Drinking Class
>> ***************************************
>>


From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun May 25 23:45:26 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 23:45:26 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Video of new Scanner Vibrato prototype
Message-ID: <000901c8beb0$a569b930$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Hi,

 I'm making first tests right now - looks very promising!

You must see these LEDs moving while the scanner is moving along the LC 
delay line, accelerating and decellerating almost Leslie-like.

I've filmed this, in terrible quality, with my digital camera.
I have a MOV file, which is about 10 MByte.
http://electro-music.com/forum/download.php?id=12872

I have to apologize for the bad quality. The sound has been recorded with 
the built-in microphone of my old Nikon Coolpix SQ, from the speakers of my 
Synthi Clone.
Setup is: Korg CX-3 (old version), 4 notes held down with clothespins.
Then into the Mic input of the Synti Clone, and out from the Scope output.
Then into the Scanner Chorus prototype. Then back into the Synthi Clone, 
amplified and reproduced with one of the internal speakers. Filmed with the 
Nikon SQ, held in the left hand, while holding the body of the Rate 
potentiometer in the palm of my right hand, and moving the knob of the pot 
with the fingers of the right hand. Just in case you were wondering.

JH.




From gjames at kddlab.com  Mon May 26 01:28:50 2008
From: gjames at kddlab.com (Greg James)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 19:28:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] RE: [AH] Video of new Scanner Vibrato prototype
In-Reply-To: <000901c8beb0$a569b930$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
References: <000901c8beb0$a569b930$0400a8c0@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <009001c8bebf$16e449f0$6601a8c0@KDDLAB01>

Are the clothespins still in production? We may have a run to Senso's
Vintage Planet to grab some before they are all gone...

:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: JH. [mailto:jhaible at debitel.net] 
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 5:45 PM
To: analog heaven; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; MOTM List
Subject: [AH] Video of new Scanner Vibrato prototype

Hi,

 I'm making first tests right now - looks very promising!

You must see these LEDs moving while the scanner is moving along the LC 
delay line, accelerating and decellerating almost Leslie-like.

I've filmed this, in terrible quality, with my digital camera.
I have a MOV file, which is about 10 MByte.
http://electro-music.com/forum/download.php?id=12872

I have to apologize for the bad quality. The sound has been recorded with 
the built-in microphone of my old Nikon Coolpix SQ, from the speakers of my 
Synthi Clone.
Setup is: Korg CX-3 (old version), 4 notes held down with clothespins.
Then into the Mic input of the Synti Clone, and out from the Scope output.
Then into the Scanner Chorus prototype. Then back into the Synthi Clone, 
amplified and reproduced with one of the internal speakers. Filmed with the 
Nikon SQ, held in the left hand, while holding the body of the Rate 
potentiometer in the palm of my right hand, and moving the knob of the pot 
with the fingers of the right hand. Just in case you were wondering.

JH.





From scott at tellun.com  Mon May 26 01:33:54 2008
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 17:33:54 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Max Min Generator
In-Reply-To: <942324.34608.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <942324.34608.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EF7B9443-525B-49EB-AF4D-EF245BC227E1@tellun.com>

I've finished building another utility module and posted pictures,  
schematics, builders guide, and sound samples:

http://www.tellun.com/motm/diy/tln863/TLN-863.html

This circuit is very similar to Ken Stone's Analog Logic circuit and  
Dave Brown's Analogic circuit.



From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Mon May 26 02:09:18 2008
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 10:09:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] modular conventions for input and output
In-Reply-To: <8852AED5-3849-4B2B-B610-3289FF11AE33@netcabo.pt>
Message-ID: <10819.62843.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hello All

I am beginning to put together a few things and wanted
to make sure I was on the right track so that what I
build now will interconnect with what I might build in
the future.  

What are the conventions for input and output voltage
levels, impedance, coupling, etc?  Are there any good
summaries of this stuff that you could recommend?

My understanding so far: - please correct me if you
disagree

Voltages:  Up to around 10V p-p for audio, CVs are
sometimes +/- 5V, sometimes 0-10V, generally 1V/octave
(but not always).  

Inputs: Coupling capacitors and a volume pot are often
first up for audio inputs, but if CVs are expected
then coupling is generally DC.  Input impedances
around 100K.

Outputs: Audio is sometimes AC coupled, CVs always DC
coupled.  Volume pots sometimes, but often not. 
Generally buffered to give an output impedance of
around 10K or less.  It seems that if I want to keep
the number of pots down, then I should be putting the
volume pots on the input side, not on the output side.
 But when to AC couple and when to DC couple?

TIA,
Nicolas



      Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
www.yahoo7.com.au/mail


From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 05:33:44 2008
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 20:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
Message-ID: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Using a 555 timer and a 4024 ripple counter, I want to
make an LFO with several outputs at 1/2n of the master
clock frequency. At lowest, this'll go to about 0.1 Hz
(not the clock freq but at the lowest divisor, 1/6 or
1/8, depending on how many outs I ultimately use).

Square waves are fine and dandy, but I'd like some
sine wave action too. For getting consistent shaping
(not absolutely necessarily accurate, but cool if
that's doable), what would work best? Would RC lowpass
filters alone do the job?


      


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon May 26 06:27:18 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 14:27:18 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000101c8bee8$c986e490$8501a8c0@ice9>

The problem with filtering a square wave to produce a sine, is that you get
a different amplitude depending on the frequency you are working at.
And it doesn't work very well anyway.

A constant amplitude triangle can be turned into a reasonable sine, either
by a diode wave shaping circuit or by carefully overdriving an operational
transconductance amplifier by just the right amount.

I can't think of a simple way around all this, if I wanted a number of LFO
sines that have frequencies 1/N of a master clock, I'd be thinking about a
number of VCOs each locked via a PPL to the master, dividing at different
rates.

Paul Perry Melbourne australia






From dave at westphila.net  Mon May 26 07:10:25 2008
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 01:10:25 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <000101c8bee8$c986e490$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <000101c8bee8$c986e490$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <483A4641.3020009@westphila.net>

Is the overdrive characteristic of the OTA just an extension of 
overdriving the input differential pair or is there a different 
phenomenon which makes them good for creating sines?

Dave

Paul Perry wrote:
> The problem with filtering a square wave to produce a sine, is that you get
> a different amplitude depending on the frequency you are working at.
> And it doesn't work very well anyway.
> 
> A constant amplitude triangle can be turned into a reasonable sine, either
> by a diode wave shaping circuit or by carefully overdriving an operational
> transconductance amplifier by just the right amount.
> 
> I can't think of a simple way around all this, if I wanted a number of LFO
> sines that have frequencies 1/N of a master clock, I'd be thinking about a
> number of VCOs each locked via a PPL to the master, dividing at different
> rates.
> 
> Paul Perry Melbourne australia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 07:18:24 2008
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 22:18:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <000101c8bee8$c986e490$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <360074.68273.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The PLL way sounds promising ('phase locking' being
the main thing I'm looking for anyway).

Still, I might give this a go too:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3139537.pdf

Thanks :)

--- Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au> wrote:

> The problem with filtering a square wave to produce
> a sine, is that you get
> a different amplitude depending on the frequency you
> are working at.
> And it doesn't work very well anyway.
> 
> A constant amplitude triangle can be turned into a
> reasonable sine, either
> by a diode wave shaping circuit or by carefully
> overdriving an operational
> transconductance amplifier by just the right amount.
> 
> I can't think of a simple way around all this, if I
> wanted a number of LFO
> sines that have frequencies 1/N of a master clock,
> I'd be thinking about a
> number of VCOs each locked via a PPL to the master,
> dividing at different
> rates.
> 
> Paul Perry Melbourne australia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



      


From terje.winther at wintherstormer.no  Mon May 26 09:12:08 2008
From: terje.winther at wintherstormer.no (Terje Winther)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 09:12:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] 16-bit superfast midi-cv?
In-Reply-To: <50181.212.71.89.93.1211493634.squirrel@webmail.uio.no>
References: <50181.212.71.89.93.1211493634.squirrel@webmail.uio.no>
Message-ID: <74497C76-F6CE-48E9-A920-E3A31A60CC12@wintherstormer.no>

Hi all,
Has anyone (manufacturer or DIY) ever made a MIDI-CV converter that  
works on 16-bit both for the keyboard CV as well as the other CVs, and  
in addition is superfast?
For a project including many analog synths a16-bit resolution MIDI-CV  
converter is needed for both notes (frequency) and amplitude  
(aftertouch), controllable from a computer with a time-resolution of  
no longer than 5-15 ms.
And of course all through ethernet or USB connection.
Any hints appreciated.

Terje Winther
terje.winther at wintherstormer.no
http://www.wintherstormer.no/



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon May 26 10:41:44 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 18:41:44 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <483A4641.3020009@westphila.net>
Message-ID: <006201c8bf0c$543680f0$8501a8c0@ice9>

Just overdriving the input diff pair, I believe.

Perhaps you would be able to use an OTA as a variable gain stage, and make a
square to sine thusly:

1. run a square wave to an integrator. 
This gives a triangle (of unspecified amplitude).

2. run the triangle into an OTA, detect the level of the output, compare it
to a reference, and use the result to adjust the gain of the OTA so that the
triangle is amplified to just reach the amplitude of the desired sine.

Paul perry Melbourne Australia

-----Original Message-----
From: David Moylan 
>Is the overdrive characteristic of the OTA just an extension of 
>overdriving the input differential pair or is there a different 
>phenomenon which makes them good for creating sines?




From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Mon May 26 11:40:19 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:40:19 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080526.114019.459114506469320958.cfmd@bredband.net>

From: Kyle Stephens <lightburnx at yahoo.com>
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 20:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <402247.99465.qm at web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> Using a 555 timer and a 4024 ripple counter, I want to
> make an LFO with several outputs at 1/2n of the master
> clock frequency. At lowest, this'll go to about 0.1 Hz
> (not the clock freq but at the lowest divisor, 1/6 or
> 1/8, depending on how many outs I ultimately use).
> 
> Square waves are fine and dandy, but I'd like some
> sine wave action too. For getting consistent shaping
> (not absolutely necessarily accurate, but cool if
> that's doable), what would work best? Would RC lowpass
> filters alone do the job?

No, but you could do it another way around. Run the 555 at a higher frequency
than you wish, say 32 times higher and then use the ripple counter outputs as
both sources to the square and sine-waves. However, to create a sine-wave you
weight together 5 squares (the fundamental and four overtones) with resistors
and then put a capacitor to ground (or over the negative feedback of a
buffering op-amp) on the output for final rounding off effect. To create a sine
of half the frequence, just add the same output network.

The resistor values can be calculated. More resistors can be used to achieve
better initial shape.

Cheers,
Magnus


From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Mon May 26 11:55:53 2008
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:55:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <20080526.114019.459114506469320958.cfmd@bredband.net>
References: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20080526.114019.459114506469320958.cfmd@bredband.net>
Message-ID: <483A8929.5090303@consol.de>

Hi Magnus,

> both sources to the square and sine-waves. However, to create a sine-wave you
> weight together 5 squares (the fundamental and four overtones) with resistors
> and then put a capacitor to ground (or over the negative feedback of a
> buffering op-amp) on the output for final rounding off effect. 

If the master clock oscillator of this kind of LFO is voltage 
controlled, it would make sense to use also a VC slew limiter. If the 
oscillator speed is controlled only by an pot, then use a dual pot where 
the second pot is used to control the slew rate.

Florian


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Mon May 26 12:12:21 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:12:21 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <483A8929.5090303@consol.de>
References: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20080526.114019.459114506469320958.cfmd@bredband.net>
	<483A8929.5090303@consol.de>
Message-ID: <20080526.121221.6745390994767340.cfmd@bredband.net>

From: Florian Anwander <Florian.Anwander at consol.de>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:55:53 +0200
Message-ID: <483A8929.5090303 at consol.de>

> Hi Magnus,
> 
> > both sources to the square and sine-waves. However, to create a sine-wave you
> > weight together 5 squares (the fundamental and four overtones) with resistors
> > and then put a capacitor to ground (or over the negative feedback of a
> > buffering op-amp) on the output for final rounding off effect. 
> 
> If the master clock oscillator of this kind of LFO is voltage controlled, it would make sense to use also a VC slew limiter. If the oscillator speed is controlled only by an pot, then use a dual pot where the second pot is used to control the slew rate.

Well, if you have multiple outputs, VC-slew is the way to go. However, if you
don't move around tooo much, a fix filter frequency will work pretty well as it
is only a minor distorsion and higher upp.

Cheers,
Magnus


From dave at westphila.net  Mon May 26 15:59:12 2008
From: dave at westphila.net (David Moylan)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 09:59:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <006201c8bf0c$543680f0$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <006201c8bf0c$543680f0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <483AC230.3080807@westphila.net>

Paul Perry wrote:
> Just overdriving the input diff pair, I believe.
> 
> Perhaps you would be able to use an OTA as a variable gain stage, and make a
> square to sine thusly:
> 
> 1. run a square wave to an integrator. 
> This gives a triangle (of unspecified amplitude).
> 
> 2. run the triangle into an OTA, detect the level of the output, compare it
> to a reference, and use the result to adjust the gain of the OTA so that the
> triangle is amplified to just reach the amplitude of the desired sine.
> 
If you wanted to try this route maybe check out the LM13700 datasheet. 
There's a circuit in there for an AGC amp that uses the buffer 
transistor to replace the diode of an ordinary peak detector.  The peak 
level is fed back into the input diodes which lowers the gain.

I forget what the initial application of this thread was, but there are 
probably better ways to get the sine than trying to ride the gain. 
Triangle to OTA overdrive is probably the most typical for a reason, but 
some of the other methods seem good too.

Dave




> Paul perry Melbourne Australia
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Moylan 
>> Is the overdrive characteristic of the OTA just an extension of 
>> overdriving the input differential pair or is there a different 
>> phenomenon which makes them good for creating sines?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From patchell at cox.net  Mon May 26 16:22:34 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 07:22:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] modular conventions for input and output
In-Reply-To: <10819.62843.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <10819.62843.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <483AC7AA.9010800@cox.net>

I prefer to keep signals at +/- 5 volts, and if at all possible, all 
signal paths DC coupled...(this is so you can process CV signals with 
the same modules that you process audio).

nicolas wrote:
> Hello All
> 
> I am beginning to put together a few things and wanted
> to make sure I was on the right track so that what I
> build now will interconnect with what I might build in
> the future.  
> 
> What are the conventions for input and output voltage
> levels, impedance, coupling, etc?  Are there any good
> summaries of this stuff that you could recommend?
> 
> My understanding so far: - please correct me if you
> disagree
> 
> Voltages:  Up to around 10V p-p for audio, CVs are
> sometimes +/- 5V, sometimes 0-10V, generally 1V/octave
> (but not always).  
> 
> Inputs: Coupling capacitors and a volume pot are often
> first up for audio inputs, but if CVs are expected
> then coupling is generally DC.  Input impedances
> around 100K.
> 
> Outputs: Audio is sometimes AC coupled, CVs always DC
> coupled.  Volume pots sometimes, but often not. 
> Generally buffered to give an output impedance of
> around 10K or less.  It seems that if I want to keep
> the number of pots down, then I should be putting the
> volume pots on the input side, not on the output side.
>  But when to AC couple and when to DC couple?
> 
> TIA,
> Nicolas
> 
> 
> 
>       Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
> www.yahoo7.com.au/mail
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From patchell at cox.net  Mon May 26 16:29:16 2008
From: patchell at cox.net (Jim Patchell)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 07:29:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 16-bit superfast midi-cv?
In-Reply-To: <74497C76-F6CE-48E9-A920-E3A31A60CC12@wintherstormer.no>
References: <50181.212.71.89.93.1211493634.squirrel@webmail.uio.no>
	<74497C76-F6CE-48E9-A920-E3A31A60CC12@wintherstormer.no>
Message-ID: <483AC93C.1010201@cox.net>

I am working on a MIDI module right now that will be close...

It is going to be rather involved...

CPU will be an AVR90USB1286.

I will be using this AVR USB stack:

http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/MyUSB.php

For other info on this stack, you can also visit avrfreaks  ( 
http://www.avrfreaks.net )

I am also going to have an 10/100 BASE T ethernet port on it.

The CV processing is going to be done by a Spartan 3 (XC3SE100) FPGA. 
The FPGA will handle refreshing the sample holds and will keep the 
latency, I hope, to a bare minimum once a CV has been received.



Terje Winther wrote:
> Hi all,
> Has anyone (manufacturer or DIY) ever made a MIDI-CV converter that 
> works on 16-bit both for the keyboard CV as well as the other CVs, and 
> in addition is superfast?
> For a project including many analog synths a16-bit resolution MIDI-CV 
> converter is needed for both notes (frequency) and amplitude 
> (aftertouch), controllable from a computer with a time-resolution of no 
> longer than 5-15 ms.
> And of course all through ethernet or USB connection.
> Any hints appreciated.
> 
> Terje Winther
> terje.winther at wintherstormer.no
> http://www.wintherstormer.no/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.noniandjim.com
SDIY: http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/index.html
----------------------------------------------



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Mon May 26 16:51:30 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:51:30 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <483AC230.3080807@westphila.net>
Message-ID: <009c01c8bf3f$fc2c84c0$8501a8c0@ice9>

I'd agree that the idea of a high frequency clock divided down & driving a
kind of sine construction - the approach made famous by Don Lancaseter, eg
at www.tinaja.com/glib/stepsynt.pdf is very good indeed for audio
applications.

But is there a problem when it comes to LFOs? When a very low frequency LFO
is modulating an oscillator, a discontinuity that would be quite
unnoticeable in an audio signal, is only too obvious. LFOs are definitely a
special - and very awkward - case.

That is why I think a phase locked method is more promising. Although, even
there it won't be without problems, when if comes to settling times in the
PLL. At LFO frequencies, the settling time might be embarrassingly long.

The more I think about it, the better triangles look.

Paul Perry melbourne australia



From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon May 26 18:29:43 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 17:29:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <009c01c8bf3f$fc2c84c0$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <009c01c8bf3f$fc2c84c0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <1DE7B2BD-7B16-4C36-84E4-4B3F1BBB4967@electricdruid.net>

A couple of thoughts about this:

If you're going for the weighted-squares approach, you ought to be  
able to do it to pretty much whatever degree of accuracy, simply by  
adding more squares waves. It's a bit like the weighted-squares  
approach to building a ramp wave. 4 or 5 square waves gives you a  
staircase that is obviously getting towards a ramp wave, but not  
quite there yet. A few more improves the quality quite a bit.

Secondly, if you're going for a design based on triangle waves, you  
can use precision rectifier circuits to double the frequency of a  
triangle wave. Starting with one really low triangle wave , then  
following it with rectifiers to get each octave, and then shaping the  
triangles with the standard triangle-to-sine waveshaper circuits  
should work nicely.

T.

On 26 May 2008, at 15:51, Paul Perry wrote:

> I'd agree that the idea of a high frequency clock divided down &  
> driving a
> kind of sine construction - the approach made famous by Don  
> Lancaseter, eg
> at www.tinaja.com/glib/stepsynt.pdf is very good indeed for audio
> applications.
>
> But is there a problem when it comes to LFOs? When a very low  
> frequency LFO
> is modulating an oscillator, a discontinuity that would be quite
> unnoticeable in an audio signal, is only too obvious. LFOs are  
> definitely a
> special - and very awkward - case.
>
> That is why I think a phase locked method is more promising.  
> Although, even
> there it won't be without problems, when if comes to settling times  
> in the
> PLL. At LFO frequencies, the settling time might be embarrassingly  
> long.
>
> The more I think about it, the better triangles look.
>
> Paul Perry melbourne australia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon May 26 18:36:03 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 17:36:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4EEE2704-49BF-43B9-846A-1F4E5ADEA338@electricdruid.net>

I finally found the reference I was looking for;

http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=6293



On 26 May 2008, at 04:33, Kyle Stephens wrote:

> Using a 555 timer and a 4024 ripple counter, I want to
> make an LFO with several outputs at 1/2n of the master
> clock frequency. At lowest, this'll go to about 0.1 Hz
> (not the clock freq but at the lowest divisor, 1/6 or
> 1/8, depending on how many outs I ultimately use).
>
> Square waves are fine and dandy, but I'd like some
> sine wave action too. For getting consistent shaping
> (not absolutely necessarily accurate, but cool if
> that's doable), what would work best? Would RC lowpass
> filters alone do the job?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Mon May 26 19:15:39 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 18:15:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <4EEE2704-49BF-43B9-846A-1F4E5ADEA338@electricdruid.net>
References: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4EEE2704-49BF-43B9-846A-1F4E5ADEA338@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <31A13A79-26C9-425E-97FA-8EA536C365A6@ntlworld.com>

Hi,

On 26 May 2008, at 17:36, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> I finally found the reference I was looking for;
>
> http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=6293

Ah yes, Walsh functions.

Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk





From Florian.Anwander at consol.de  Mon May 26 19:53:41 2008
From: Florian.Anwander at consol.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:53:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <1DE7B2BD-7B16-4C36-84E4-4B3F1BBB4967@electricdruid.net>
References: <009c01c8bf3f$fc2c84c0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<1DE7B2BD-7B16-4C36-84E4-4B3F1BBB4967@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <483AF925.7050506@consol.de>

Hi Tom

> wave. Starting with one really low triangle wave , then  following it 
> with rectifiers to get each octave, and then shaping the  triangles with 
> the standard triangle-to-sine waveshaper circuits  should work nicely.
Basically a good thought, but you stay stuck in 1:2 relations. All other 
(much more interesting) LFO rhythmic relations are not possible.

Florian


From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Mon May 26 19:59:28 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:59:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <31A13A79-26C9-425E-97FA-8EA536C365A6@ntlworld.com>
References: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4EEE2704-49BF-43B9-846A-1F4E5ADEA338@electricdruid.net>
	<31A13A79-26C9-425E-97FA-8EA536C365A6@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <200805261959.28578.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Montag 26 Mai 2008, Neil Johnson wrote:
> > http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=6293
>
> Ah yes, Walsh functions.

But only the boring subset of Rademacher functions is used in this 
circuit.  Could be easily extended to use Walsh functions by adding a 
couple more 4030 and resistors, though.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptations for Waldorf Q V3.00R3 and Q+ V3.54R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Mon May 26 20:21:27 2008
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:21:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <200805261959.28578.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <402247.99465.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4EEE2704-49BF-43B9-846A-1F4E5ADEA338@electricdruid.net>
	<31A13A79-26C9-425E-97FA-8EA536C365A6@ntlworld.com>
	<200805261959.28578.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <B678CD27-B422-4544-B749-0F3C1C24F6E2@ntlworld.com>


On 26 May 2008, at 18:59, ASSI wrote:
> On Montag 26 Mai 2008, Neil Johnson wrote:
>>> http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=6293
>>
>> Ah yes, Walsh functions.
>
> But only the boring subset of Rademacher functions is used in this
> circuit.  Could be easily extended to use Walsh functions by adding a
> couple more 4030 and resistors, though.

Indeed but the resulting circuit would be twice the size and not such  
a 'neat' idea for publication ;)

Adding a second 4030 would get you a further 4 terms, 13 in total,  
which could make some more interesting waveforms.

Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk





From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue May 27 01:57:28 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:57:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Update to PIC envelope generator project
Message-ID: <99798335-F179-4653-B9C1-50650D30AEDA@electricdruid.net>

Hi all,

I've done an update to my PIC-based VCADSR envelope generator. The  
previous version only had a GATE input, so I've added TRIGGER as  
well. It can still be used with GATE alone if required.

I've also updated the circuit diagram to use an improved two-stage  
bessel filter.

Finally, I changed the TIME CV input that can change the overall time  
of the envelope's A, D and R from a bipolar input to a unipolar one  
that shortens the times. This is more like the SSM2056 which I  
originally used as model.

New code (Version 7B not 7) is now fully tested and online. Enjoy!

Regards,
Tom

(I've been halfway through doing these changes for a week or more,  
but got sidetracked dealing with Internet Explorer problems, now  
sorted.)




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Tue May 27 03:53:38 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:53:38 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <200805261959.28578.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <006b01c8bf9c$7b8dc0b0$8501a8c0@ice9>

Boring or not, that EDN circuit is only 4 bits, so it's going to be very
lumpy indeed.

How difficult would it be to extend the principle to 12 bits say?
(impossible for a non-mathematician like myself, but there is obviously 
Talent on this list..)

paul perry Melbourne Australia

-----Original Message-----
On Montag 26 Mai 2008, Neil Johnson wrote:
> > http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=6293
>
> Ah yes, Walsh functions.
But only the boring subset of Rademacher functions is used in this 
circuit.  Could be easily extended to use Walsh functions by adding a 
couple more 4030 and resistors, though.
Achim.



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Tue May 27 04:16:42 2008
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 04:16:42 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <009c01c8bf3f$fc2c84c0$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <483AC230.3080807@westphila.net>
	<009c01c8bf3f$fc2c84c0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <20080527.041642.201540822426991164.cfmd@bredband.net>

From: "Paul Perry" <pfperry at melbpc.org.au>
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 00:51:30 +1000
Message-ID: <009c01c8bf3f$fc2c84c0$8501a8c0 at ice9>

> I'd agree that the idea of a high frequency clock divided down & driving a
> kind of sine construction - the approach made famous by Don Lancaseter, eg
> at www.tinaja.com/glib/stepsynt.pdf is very good indeed for audio
> applications.
> 
> But is there a problem when it comes to LFOs? When a very low frequency LFO
> is modulating an oscillator, a discontinuity that would be quite
> unnoticeable in an audio signal, is only too obvious. LFOs are definitely a
> special - and very awkward - case.
> 
> That is why I think a phase locked method is more promising. Although, even
> there it won't be without problems, when if comes to settling times in the
> PLL. At LFO frequencies, the settling time might be embarrassingly long.
> 
> The more I think about it, the better triangles look.

I agree with you that you do need to care when it comes to LFOs, but it is not
important that it is perfectly sine, but has the same smoothness. My 5 bit
proposal was maybe running a bit short, but also has a hidden problem to it.
It won't work as well as I thought... I did not properly think about the
overtone spectras. Supprised nobody spotted the error. You can't just cancel
out the unwanted odd overtones with even overtones. Just wont cut it.

You can generate arbitrary triangles and bend those into sine-like creatures.

Cheers,
Magnus


From loscha at gmail.com  Tue May 27 05:29:25 2008
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:29:25 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Korg PolySix effects board as an effects processor
Message-ID: <17035a3d0805262029q79bde76sc297c1a0f38731d4@mail.gmail.com>

Morning all.

I've just started rigging up this action at home.

==> Power supply first (+/- 15 and 5 volts amongst others) This will
be good for this (has the power connection already there direct to
board, of course)
==> Test board, make sure it all boots up and LFOs are all FOing

 I saw a web page a while ago which I cannot re-locate of someone who
put one behind a modular panel as part of their system. Anyone know
where that is?

Any perils and pitfalls for this type of thing? it seems like it
should be qiute easy, due to the way the inputs and outputs on the
board are all pretty well isolated from pain.

Has anyone ever tried to rig up the envelope generators and filters of
a Polysix board into a 6 input system for applying VCA and Filter ENV
to external signals?
It seems possible, but, it might be insane to try. could be better to
use the ADSR and Filter chips discretely?

-ErJ

-- 
www.loscha.com


From loscha at gmail.com  Tue May 27 06:05:08 2008
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:05:08 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Korg PolySix effects board as an effects processor
In-Reply-To: <244908.45058.qm@web55015.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <17035a3d0805262029q79bde76sc297c1a0f38731d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<244908.45058.qm@web55015.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0805262105u165e0074y4d0d5b2990a83e5e@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you so much, Thomas!!!

This is the very page I was looking for!
You've made my Day!!!!!!


On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 1:58 PM, thomas white <djthomaswhite at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hey there,
>
> I have done this. My page is
> www.naturalrhythmmusic.com/diy.html
>
> Look for the miscellaneous page to find the polysixe
> conversion. You are right... it is easy and the input
> are well protected. Should not be too hard to hook up
> for you.
>
> Thomas
>
> --- Loscha <loscha at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Morning all.
>>
>> I've just started rigging up this action at home.
>>
>> ==> Power supply first (+/- 15 and 5 volts amongst
>> others) This will
>> be good for this (has the power connection already
>> there direct to
>> board, of course)
>> ==> Test board, make sure it all boots up and LFOs
>> are all FOing
>>
>>  I saw a web page a while ago which I cannot
>> re-locate of someone who
>> put one behind a modular panel as part of their
>> system. Anyone know
>> where that is?
>>
>> Any perils and pitfalls for this type of thing? it
>> seems like it
>> should be qiute easy, due to the way the inputs and
>> outputs on the
>> board are all pretty well isolated from pain.
>>
>> Has anyone ever tried to rig up the envelope
>> generators and filters of
>> a Polysix board into a 6 input system for applying
>> VCA and Filter ENV
>> to external signals?
>> It seems possible, but, it might be insane to try.
>> could be better to
>> use the ADSR and Filter chips discretely?
>>
>> -ErJ
>>
>> --
>> www.loscha.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
> Thomas White
>  Natural Rhythm
> www.naturalrhythmmusic.com
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
www.loscha.com


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue May 27 14:42:37 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:42:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] help with strange BBD chips (sony) (Kenwood time delay)
Message-ID: <BAY144-W306DFC5B9FB2E165585D18C8BD0@phx.gbl>


In the last few months I found a Kenwood EQ/time delay component (ge-1000)that is labeled as a  "time delay for spatial and delay effects"

i opened it up and the only chips that could be BBD's are the SONY 766 chips (sony 766 103 1g)

there are 2 (left and right) and the only other chips are opamps or regulators,etc.

anyway, i can't find any information on them. i bet they'd be great for a flanger or chorus.

also in the last few months I salvaged an early 1980's VCR and while opening it up i found 2 big plastic boxes labelled

"kss DELAY LINE ms-21" and KSS delay line MS-15"


can i use these for delay or phase shift effect?

i am constantly surprised at how many chips DONT turn up in my datasheet searches.
is this because they were just made for a specific product and  they were never available to the public?

anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks




From czvekan at gmail.com  Tue May 27 18:44:57 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 18:44:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ARP 2600 Grey meanie 100K A/B sliders plus plastic caps
	needed
Message-ID: <A3C4DE8C-8BD9-4340-AC12-4316655EC7B2@gmail.com>

Hi,

In order to fully restore my ARP 2600 Grey Meanie . I would need a few  
100K sliders and the plastic caps are missing on some as well. Anybody  
has a good connection for those ?


Csaba







From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Tue May 27 19:33:39 2008
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:33:39 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Rare chips on ebay
In-Reply-To: <C45DE81D.3E2%paul.maddox.mail-list@synth.net>
References: <014701c8bd48$7739a2a0$65ace7e0$@net>
	<C45DE81D.3E2%paul.maddox.mail-list@synth.net>
Message-ID: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE0D5@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>

You guys may find this discussion interesting:
Hi Barry...
         


My First IC was a re-layout of a GFI built built up in Interdesign 
for SCI Systems Inc. I still have the schematic and it looked like
I was working with one of Hans Camenzind's engineers. Yes the approaches
described are pretty much as it is done. What I like is they offer you
"kitPart" transistors so you can build up your own breadboard. 
That is highly recommended. I know Hans likes to use ICED from 
www.iceditors.com for IC layout. I bought this program before it was
free and have convinced myself it can do everything cadence can
do. But not as easy. I can produce a finished gdsii file using 
cadence in about half the time it takes me to wire up and fully
debug a breadboard. I'm still not up to speed on ICED.
Another web site you may want to look at is as follows. 


http://www.silicondevices.com/Resources/Links.htm


There is a fair number of alternative spice and layout 
programs out which are free. The spice and verilog program
tend to be alike. But a lot of time seem to be needed to 
learn the "style" of a layout program. The methods of drc
and lvs are just not the same. But making an Interdesign type 
IC is just involved with hooking up metal. I don't think all
the complexity may be needed here. 


My term "webinar" may not be correct. What I am really looking
for is a way I could capture a two way technical question and
answer dialog and publish it on a web site. I think all the 
"webinar" mainly end up as PowerPoint documents with audio anyway. 
But for some reason the webinars like to hook the whole web up 
all at the same time which is 11AM my time and 2PM on the
east coast. I don't see why this can't all be done offline.


                                         ..Don Sauer


On May 23, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Barry Klein wrote:


Hi Don,
>From what I understand these custom IC's I write about were designed using
an analog array technology from Interdesign.
I spent some time looking for similar approaches now and came up with:
http://www.deiaz.com/asics/700_series.htm
Hans Camenzind was the head of Interdesign and now has this website:
http://www.arraydesign.com/
A nice book he available there for downloading too.  You two know each other
well?
Are the approaches described for analog chip design on these sites pretty
much what you recommend?
 
The webinars I usually am advised of are right in the middle of my work day
so I cannot participate.
Unfortunately my job doesn't match my interests that well right now.
 
Barry




From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Tue May 27 21:46:43 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 21:46:43 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <006b01c8bf9c$7b8dc0b0$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <006b01c8bf9c$7b8dc0b0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <200805272146.43532.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Dienstag 27 Mai 2008, Paul Perry wrote:
> Boring or not, that EDN circuit is only 4 bits, so it's going to be
> very lumpy indeed.

I shouldn't make such obtuse jokes, sorry - but I find the stuff they've 
left out is almost more interesting than what is written in such 
articles...  As a thought provoking device they are quite useful 
however and once in a while they might even solve the problem at hand 
without further ado.

> How difficult would it be to extend the principle to 12 bits say?
> (impossible for a non-mathematician like myself, but there is
> obviously Talent on this list..)

Due to the symmetry properties of the sine wave the arrangement as shown 
in EDN is actually quite good and not easy to improve without a lot 
more effort (does "diminishing returns" ring a bell?).  Hang on, I'll 
try to explain.  The Walsh coefficients for the first 64 Walsh 
functions (the 0th would be for any DC component, which is of course 
not present in these signals) for the "standard" waveforms (normalized 
to amplitude 1.0) are:

   n      Sine    Cosine   |/| Saw   /|/ Saw   Sin-Tri  Cos-Tri
   0   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
   1   0.63662   0.00000  -0.50000   0.50000   0.50000  0.00000
   2   0.00000   0.63662   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.50000
   3   0.00000   0.00000  -0.25000  -0.25000   0.00000  0.00000
   4   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
   5  -0.26370   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.25000  0.00000
   6   0.00000   0.26370   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.25000
   7   0.00000   0.00000  -0.12500  -0.12500   0.00000  0.00000
   8   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
   9  -0.05245   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  10   0.00000  -0.05245   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  11   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  12   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  13  -0.12663   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.12500  0.00000
  14   0.00000   0.12663   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.12500
  15   0.00000   0.00000  -0.06250  -0.06250   0.00000  0.00000
  16   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  17  -0.01247   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  18   0.00000  -0.01247   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  19   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  20   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  21   0.00517   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  22   0.00000  -0.00517   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  23   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  24   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  25  -0.02597   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  26   0.00000  -0.02597   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  27   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  28   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  29  -0.06270   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.06250  0.00000
  30   0.00000   0.06270   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.06250
  31   0.00000   0.00000  -0.03125  -0.03125   0.00000  0.00000
  32   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  33  -0.00308   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  34   0.00000  -0.00308   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  35   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  36   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  37   0.00128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  38   0.00000  -0.00128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  39   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  40   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  41   0.00025   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  42   0.00000   0.00025   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  43   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  44   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  45   0.00061   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  46   0.00000  -0.00061   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  47   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  48   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  49  -0.00622   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  50   0.00000  -0.00622   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  51   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  52   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  53   0.00258   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  54   0.00000  -0.00258   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  55   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  56   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  57  -0.01295   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  58   0.00000  -0.01295   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  59   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  60   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
  61  -0.03128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.03125  0.00000
  62   0.00000   0.03128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.03125
  63   0.00000   0.00000  -0.01562  -0.01562   0.00000  0.00000

I hope you see how the symmetry present in the signal maps to which 
Walsh coefficients are non-zero.  The ramp functions don't need 
anything else but binary weighted square waves of successively doubling 
frequency for their approximation as anybody who has watched the output 
from a binary counter can attest.  That's your cue as to where the 
square waves coming from the 4040 are present in the table.  Now if you 
multiply (and that operation maps to an XOR operation in the circuit) 
any Walsh function W_n with W_1, then you get W_(n-1).  That's the 
second cue you need to decipher the EDN circuit.

Equipped with that information one sees that the EDN circuit actually 
approximates a cosine, this is done via the XOR arrangement with Q4, 
which consequently is associated with W_1.  So the inputs to the opamp 
are W_2, W_6, W_14 and W30, which are incidentally the only positve 
coefficients in the series (anything negative would have to go to the 
other input of the opamp).  This is the moral equivalent of 
approximating the first 180? of a cosine with just square waves (which 
are sometimes called Rademacher functions), hence my original quip.  If 
you plug into the above series you'll come up with different resistor 
values; I haven't conclusively figured out why (I think they've tried 
to compensate for the output resistance of the XOR switches, which 
would compute to about 5k with their choice of values).  There are four 
negative terms W_10, W_18, W_22 and W26 which would improve the 
approximation quality but not the resolution in time, but unfortunately 
these require a three level deep XOR tree (four terms), which would 
mean adding three 4030 for not much of an improvement.

Doubling the resolution in time is possible at the expense of another 
4030 (~300k on that output), but the approximation error is already 
larger than the extra precision afforded by adding that term.  Still, 
going to "12bits", that is using all the available outputs from the 
4040 (but no XOR tree for producing higher order Walsh terms) needs two 
more 4030 with approximately double the resistor value into each 
consecutive stage, so the last one is close to 10MOhm and you'd have to 
match the resistors to 100ppm for this to be of any practical use.  
Also you'd have to make sure that the noise sources in the system 
woudn't swamp that, either.  Also keep in mind that the 4040 is a 
ripple counter and the switching instants just won't line up nicely 
enough, adding quite a bit of glitch noise all by itself.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Tue May 27 22:38:48 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:38:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <200805272146.43532.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <006b01c8bf9c$7b8dc0b0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<200805272146.43532.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <20080527203749.M57611@wowway.com>

The best improvement might indeed (as you mention in the last line)
be making the counter synchronous. For 4 bits its no extra trouble...

H^) harry



On Tue, 27 May 2008 21:46:43 +0200, ASSI wrote
> On Dienstag 27 Mai 2008, Paul Perry wrote:
> > Boring or not, that EDN circuit is only 4 bits, so it's going to be
> > very lumpy indeed.
> 
> I shouldn't make such obtuse jokes, sorry - but I find the stuff 
> they've left out is almost more interesting than what is written in 
> such articles...  As a thought provoking device they are quite 
> useful however and once in a while they might even solve the problem 
> at hand without further ado.
> 
> > How difficult would it be to extend the principle to 12 bits say?
> > (impossible for a non-mathematician like myself, but there is
> > obviously Talent on this list..)
> 
> Due to the symmetry properties of the sine wave the arrangement as 
> shown in EDN is actually quite good and not easy to improve without 
> a lot more effort (does "diminishing returns" ring a bell?).  Hang 
> on, I'll try to explain.  The Walsh coefficients for the first 64 
> Walsh functions (the 0th would be for any DC component, which is of 
> course not present in these signals) for the "standard" waveforms 
> (normalized to amplitude 1.0) are:
> 
>    n      Sine    Cosine   |/| Saw   /|/ Saw   Sin-Tri  Cos-Tri
>    0   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>    1   0.63662   0.00000  -0.50000   0.50000   0.50000  0.00000
>    2   0.00000   0.63662   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.50000
>    3   0.00000   0.00000  -0.25000  -0.25000   0.00000  0.00000
>    4   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>    5  -0.26370   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.25000  0.00000
>    6   0.00000   0.26370   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.25000
>    7   0.00000   0.00000  -0.12500  -0.12500   0.00000  0.00000
>    8   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>    9  -0.05245   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   10   0.00000  -0.05245   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   11   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   12   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   13  -0.12663   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.12500  0.00000
>   14   0.00000   0.12663   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.12500
>   15   0.00000   0.00000  -0.06250  -0.06250   0.00000  0.00000
>   16   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   17  -0.01247   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   18   0.00000  -0.01247   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   19   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   20   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   21   0.00517   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   22   0.00000  -0.00517   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   23   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   24   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   25  -0.02597   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   26   0.00000  -0.02597   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   27   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   28   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   29  -0.06270   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.06250  0.00000
>   30   0.00000   0.06270   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.06250
>   31   0.00000   0.00000  -0.03125  -0.03125   0.00000  0.00000
>   32   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   33  -0.00308   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   34   0.00000  -0.00308   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   35   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   36   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   37   0.00128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   38   0.00000  -0.00128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   39   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   40   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   41   0.00025   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   42   0.00000   0.00025   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   43   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   44   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   45   0.00061   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   46   0.00000  -0.00061   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   47   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   48   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   49  -0.00622   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   50   0.00000  -0.00622   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   51   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   52   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   53   0.00258   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   54   0.00000  -0.00258   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   55   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   56   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   57  -0.01295   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   58   0.00000  -0.01295   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   59   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   60   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
>   61  -0.03128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.03125  0.00000
>   62   0.00000   0.03128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.03125
>   63   0.00000   0.00000  -0.01562  -0.01562   0.00000  0.00000
> 
> I hope you see how the symmetry present in the signal maps to which 
> Walsh coefficients are non-zero.  The ramp functions don't need 
> anything else but binary weighted square waves of successively 
> doubling frequency for their approximation as anybody who has 
> watched the output from a binary counter can attest.  That's your 
> cue as to where the square waves coming from the 4040 are present in 
> the table.  Now if you multiply (and that operation maps to an XOR 
> operation in the circuit) any Walsh function W_n with W_1, then you 
> get W_(n-1).  That's the second cue you need to decipher the EDN circuit.
> 
> Equipped with that information one sees that the EDN circuit 
> actually approximates a cosine, this is done via the XOR arrangement 
> with Q4, which consequently is associated with W_1.  So the inputs 
> to the opamp are W_2, W_6, W_14 and W30, which are incidentally the 
> only positve coefficients in the series (anything negative would 
> have to go to the other input of the opamp).  This is the moral 
> equivalent of approximating the first 180? of a cosine with just 
> square waves (which are sometimes called Rademacher functions),
>  hence my original quip.  If you plug into the above series you'll 
> come up with different resistor values; I haven't conclusively 
> figured out why (I think they've tried to compensate for the output 
> resistance of the XOR switches, which would compute to about 5k with 
> their choice of values).  There are four negative terms W_10, W_18,
>  W_22 and W26 which would improve the approximation quality but not 
> the resolution in time, but unfortunately these require a three 
> level deep XOR tree (four terms), which would mean adding three 4030 
> for not much of an improvement.
> 
> Doubling the resolution in time is possible at the expense of 
> another 4030 (~300k on that output), but the approximation error is 
> already larger than the extra precision afforded by adding that 
> term.  Still, going to "12bits", that is using all the available 
> outputs from the 4040 (but no XOR tree for producing higher order 
> Walsh terms) needs two more 4030 with approximately double the 
> resistor value into each consecutive stage, so the last one is close 
> to 10MOhm and you'd have to match the resistors to 100ppm for this 
> to be of any practical use.  Also you'd have to make sure that the 
> noise sources in the system woudn't swamp that, either.  Also keep 
> in mind that the 4040 is a ripple counter and the switching instants 
> just won't line up nicely enough, adding quite a bit of glitch noise 
> all by itself.
> 
> Achim.
> -- 
> +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+
> 
> SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
> http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed May 28 01:37:27 2008
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (GRAHAM ATKINS)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 00:37:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] help with strange BBD chips (sony) (Kenwood time delay)
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W306DFC5B9FB2E165585D18C8BD0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W306DFC5B9FB2E165585D18C8BD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <16E4AB3E-6AF2-4658-A53A-E834F1A6EEBB@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi Dan,

Your reference to the VCR could well be video delays for some purpose.  
Optical one line delays were
used for error correction and are usually 2 transducers and a quartz  
block hence the physical size.

Graham

On May 27, 2008, at 13:42, Dan Snazelle wrote:

>
> In the last few months I found a Kenwood EQ/time delay component  
> (ge-1000)that is labeled as a  "time delay for spatial and delay  
> effects"
>
> i opened it up and the only chips that could be BBD's are the SONY  
> 766 chips (sony 766 103 1g)
>
> there are 2 (left and right) and the only other chips are opamps or  
> regulators,etc.
>
> anyway, i can't find any information on them. i bet they'd be great  
> for a flanger or chorus.
>
> also in the last few months I salvaged an early 1980's VCR and while  
> opening it up i found 2 big plastic boxes labelled
>
> "kss DELAY LINE ms-21" and KSS delay line MS-15"
>
>
> can i use these for delay or phase shift effect?
>
> i am constantly surprised at how many chips DONT turn up in my  
> datasheet searches.
> is this because they were just made for a specific product and  they  
> were never available to the public?
>
> anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thanks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From profpep at hotmail.com  Wed May 28 02:11:21 2008
From: profpep at hotmail.com (Mike)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 01:11:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] help with strange BBD chips (sony) (Kenwood time delay)
References: <BAY144-W306DFC5B9FB2E165585D18C8BD0@phx.gbl>
	<16E4AB3E-6AF2-4658-A53A-E834F1A6EEBB@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY111-DAV779EA6069AD11613E325EA1BC0@phx.gbl>


> Your reference to the VCR could well be video delays for some purpose.
> Optical one line delays were
> used for error correction and are usually 2 transducers and a quartz
> block hence the physical size.
>

The one's used for PAL TV were typically 64uS (1 line time),  I don't think
NTSC used error correction, (hence the appellation "Never Twice Same
Colour).

You'd need rather a lot to do anything with audio.

Mike



From rtellason at verizon.net  Wed May 28 02:50:05 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 20:50:05 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] help with strange BBD chips (sony) (Kenwood time delay)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV779EA6069AD11613E325EA1BC0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W306DFC5B9FB2E165585D18C8BD0@phx.gbl>
	<16E4AB3E-6AF2-4658-A53A-E834F1A6EEBB@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<BAY111-DAV779EA6069AD11613E325EA1BC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200805272050.06012.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 27 May 2008 20:11, Mike wrote:
> > Your reference to the VCR could well be video delays for some purpose.
> > Optical one line delays were
> > used for error correction and are usually 2 transducers and a quartz
> > block hence the physical size.
>
> The one's used for PAL TV were typically 64uS (1 line time),  I don't think
> NTSC used error correction, (hence the appellation "Never Twice Same
> Colour).

The ones used in NTSC sets were because there was a significant amount of time 
required for the signal to go through a number of stages in terms of color 
processing,  way more for that than the video component,  so the delay was 
necessary to have things line up properly.  I'd never heard of them being 
used for error correction before,  though one of the VCRs I scrapped out was 
a unit capable of handling those European-type signals.

> You'd need rather a lot to do anything with audio.

I have a number of them on hand,  but I don't think that I have that 
many!  :-)

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed May 28 05:20:37 2008
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 03:20:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] help with strange BBD chips (sony) (Kenwood time delay)
In-Reply-To: <200805272050.06012.rtellason@verizon.net>
References: <BAY144-W306DFC5B9FB2E165585D18C8BD0@phx.gbl>
	<16E4AB3E-6AF2-4658-A53A-E834F1A6EEBB@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<BAY111-DAV779EA6069AD11613E325EA1BC0@phx.gbl>
	<200805272050.06012.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W15A8E63D5BD3DD5CB54C0FC8BC0@phx.gbl>


roy- what about the BBD chip in the kenwood eq...any ideas? i am pretty sure the SONY CHIP is a bbd (on the case it states that there are BUCKET BRIGADE chips inside!!)

did sony ever do bbd chips?

or could it be a re badged chip?

thanks

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc


http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm


http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle


> Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 20:50:05 -0400
> From: rtellason at verizon.net
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] help with strange BBD chips (sony) (Kenwood time delay)
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
> On Tuesday 27 May 2008 20:11, Mike wrote:
>>> Your reference to the VCR could well be video delays for some purpose.
>>> Optical one line delays were
>>> used for error correction and are usually 2 transducers and a quartz
>>> block hence the physical size.
>>
>> The one's used for PAL TV were typically 64uS (1 line time), I don't think
>> NTSC used error correction, (hence the appellation "Never Twice Same
>> Colour).
>
> The ones used in NTSC sets were because there was a significant amount of time
> required for the signal to go through a number of stages in terms of color
> processing, way more for that than the video component, so the delay was
> necessary to have things line up properly. I'd never heard of them being
> used for error correction before, though one of the VCRs I scrapped out was
> a unit capable of handling those European-type signals.
>
>> You'd need rather a lot to do anything with audio.
>
> I have a number of them on hand, but I don't think that I have that
> many! :-)
>
> --
> Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
> ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
> be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
> -
> Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
> M Dakin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From rtellason at verizon.net  Wed May 28 05:27:49 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 23:27:49 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] help with strange BBD chips (sony) (Kenwood time delay)
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W15A8E63D5BD3DD5CB54C0FC8BC0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W306DFC5B9FB2E165585D18C8BD0@phx.gbl>
	<200805272050.06012.rtellason@verizon.net>
	<BAY144-W15A8E63D5BD3DD5CB54C0FC8BC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200805272327.51702.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Tuesday 27 May 2008 23:20, you wrote:
> roy- what about the BBD chip in the kenwood eq...any ideas? i am pretty
> sure the SONY CHIP is a bbd (on the case it states that there are BUCKET
> BRIGADE chips inside!!)
>
> did sony ever do bbd chips?

I have no idea offhand.

> or could it be a re badged chip?

Sony did some chips with their own numbers on it,  I remember running across 
some of them in older VCRs and such,  but for the most part what Sony gear I 
have I just use,  without getting into it and messing with it.  It just 
works.  That includes a TV I brought with me when I moved to this state -- in 
1978!  Also a receiver that's almost that old.  And one or two other bits.

Kenwood?  I can't remember the last time I saw one,  never mind getting into 
one.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca  Wed May 28 07:06:42 2008
From: veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 22:06:42 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] help with strange BBD chips (sony) (Kenwood time delay)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV779EA6069AD11613E325EA1BC0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W306DFC5B9FB2E165585D18C8BD0@phx.gbl>
	<16E4AB3E-6AF2-4658-A53A-E834F1A6EEBB@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<BAY111-DAV779EA6069AD11613E325EA1BC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <50792B1D-EB87-41A7-AE01-A20E3D72E8B1@shaw.ca>


On 27-May-08, at 5:11 PM, Mike wrote:

>
>> Your reference to the VCR could well be video delays for some  
>> purpose.
>> Optical one line delays were
>> used for error correction and are usually 2 transducers and a quartz
>> block hence the physical size.
>>
>
> The one's used for PAL TV were typically 64uS (1 line time),  I  
> don't think
> NTSC used error correction, (hence the appellation "Never Twice Same
> Colour).
>
> You'd need rather a lot to do anything with audio.
I had always known NTSCII as "Never The Same Colour Twice".




From villeg at gmail.com  Wed May 28 12:14:26 2008
From: villeg at gmail.com (Ville Gustafsson)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:14:26 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] roland tr-909 switch needed
Message-ID: <67637f060805280314t93204f0s353f7793998a8718@mail.gmail.com>

I need a roland tr-909 red led switch, one of the 16 switches in a row
for pattern programming..

anyone got a spare of those or knows where i could get one?

thanks
Vilhelm


From audio.jan at gmail.com  Wed May 28 14:43:01 2008
From: audio.jan at gmail.com (jan)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:43:01 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] roland tr-909 switch needed
In-Reply-To: <67637f060805280314t93204f0s353f7793998a8718@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67637f060805280314t93204f0s353f7793998a8718@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b7733f300805280543r32f12dffi2aace7212647ac5d@mail.gmail.com>

not sure if you know chipsforbrains...
I saw an auction offering these switches by chipsforbrains on the bay
some weeks ago. you could send him a message :
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZchipforbrains
i don't know anything about the price.

good luck!
jan


From czvekan at gmail.com  Wed May 28 14:55:34 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:55:34 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
Message-ID: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com>

Hi everybody,

I am looking for the IMF-3958 or 2N3958 N-Channel J-FET for a ARP 4015  
S/H Submodule (ARP2600). Is there a good substitute ?
Also looking at the schematics from ARP-TECH's site. I don't  
understand what the "GUARD" means coming from the Source of the 2N4392  
to the two Gates of the 2N3958.


Thanks

Csaba






From harrybissell at wowway.com  Wed May 28 14:57:39 2008
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 07:57:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <20080527203749.M57611@wowway.com>
References: <006b01c8bf9c$7b8dc0b0$8501a8c0@ice9>
	<200805272146.43532.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<20080527203749.M57611@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <20080528125615.M67083@wowway.com>

I just did a quick simulation of the four bit solution from
Electronic Design...

http://electronicdesign.com/Files/29/6293/Figure_01.gif

Its bad... VERY bad.  No one would use this...

H^) harry




On Tue, 27 May 2008 15:38:48 -0500, harrybissell wrote
> The best improvement might indeed (as you mention in the last line)
> be making the counter synchronous. For 4 bits its no extra trouble...
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> On Tue, 27 May 2008 21:46:43 +0200, ASSI wrote
> > On Dienstag 27 Mai 2008, Paul Perry wrote:
> > > Boring or not, that EDN circuit is only 4 bits, so it's going to be
> > > very lumpy indeed.
> > 
> > I shouldn't make such obtuse jokes, sorry - but I find the stuff 
> > they've left out is almost more interesting than what is written in 
> > such articles...  As a thought provoking device they are quite 
> > useful however and once in a while they might even solve the problem 
> > at hand without further ado.
> > 
> > > How difficult would it be to extend the principle to 12 bits say?
> > > (impossible for a non-mathematician like myself, but there is
> > > obviously Talent on this list..)
> > 
> > Due to the symmetry properties of the sine wave the arrangement as 
> > shown in EDN is actually quite good and not easy to improve without 
> > a lot more effort (does "diminishing returns" ring a bell?).  Hang 
> > on, I'll try to explain.  The Walsh coefficients for the first 64 
> > Walsh functions (the 0th would be for any DC component, which is of 
> > course not present in these signals) for the "standard" waveforms 
> > (normalized to amplitude 1.0) are:
> > 
> >    n      Sine    Cosine   |/| Saw   /|/ Saw   Sin-Tri  Cos-Tri
> >    0   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >    1   0.63662   0.00000  -0.50000   0.50000   0.50000  0.00000
> >    2   0.00000   0.63662   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.50000
> >    3   0.00000   0.00000  -0.25000  -0.25000   0.00000  0.00000
> >    4   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >    5  -0.26370   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.25000  0.00000
> >    6   0.00000   0.26370   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.25000
> >    7   0.00000   0.00000  -0.12500  -0.12500   0.00000  0.00000
> >    8   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >    9  -0.05245   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   10   0.00000  -0.05245   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   11   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   12   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   13  -0.12663   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.12500  0.00000
> >   14   0.00000   0.12663   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.12500
> >   15   0.00000   0.00000  -0.06250  -0.06250   0.00000  0.00000
> >   16   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   17  -0.01247   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   18   0.00000  -0.01247   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   19   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   20   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   21   0.00517   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   22   0.00000  -0.00517   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   23   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   24   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   25  -0.02597   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   26   0.00000  -0.02597   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   27   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   28   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   29  -0.06270   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.06250  0.00000
> >   30   0.00000   0.06270   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.06250
> >   31   0.00000   0.00000  -0.03125  -0.03125   0.00000  0.00000
> >   32   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   33  -0.00308   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   34   0.00000  -0.00308   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   35   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   36   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   37   0.00128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   38   0.00000  -0.00128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   39   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   40   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   41   0.00025   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   42   0.00000   0.00025   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   43   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   44   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   45   0.00061   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   46   0.00000  -0.00061   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   47   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   48   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   49  -0.00622   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   50   0.00000  -0.00622   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   51   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   52   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   53   0.00258   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   54   0.00000  -0.00258   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   55   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   56   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   57  -0.01295   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   58   0.00000  -0.01295   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   59   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   60   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.00000
> >   61  -0.03128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  -0.03125  0.00000
> >   62   0.00000   0.03128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  0.03125
> >   63   0.00000   0.00000  -0.01562  -0.01562   0.00000  0.00000
> > 
> > I hope you see how the symmetry present in the signal maps to which 
> > Walsh coefficients are non-zero.  The ramp functions don't need 
> > anything else but binary weighted square waves of successively 
> > doubling frequency for their approximation as anybody who has 
> > watched the output from a binary counter can attest.  That's your 
> > cue as to where the square waves coming from the 4040 are present in 
> > the table.  Now if you multiply (and that operation maps to an XOR 
> > operation in the circuit) any Walsh function W_n with W_1, then you 
> > get W_(n-1).  That's the second cue you need to decipher the EDN circuit.
> > 
> > Equipped with that information one sees that the EDN circuit 
> > actually approximates a cosine, this is done via the XOR arrangement 
> > with Q4, which consequently is associated with W_1.  So the inputs 
> > to the opamp are W_2, W_6, W_14 and W30, which are incidentally the 
> > only positve coefficients in the series (anything negative would 
> > have to go to the other input of the opamp).  This is the moral 
> > equivalent of approximating the first 180? of a cosine with just 
> > square waves (which are sometimes called Rademacher functions),
> >  hence my original quip.  If you plug into the above series you'll 
> > come up with different resistor values; I haven't conclusively 
> > figured out why (I think they've tried to compensate for the output 
> > resistance of the XOR switches, which would compute to about 5k with 
> > their choice of values).  There are four negative terms W_10, W_18,
> >  W_22 and W26 which would improve the approximation quality but not 
> > the resolution in time, but unfortunately these require a three 
> > level deep XOR tree (four terms), which would mean adding three 4030 
> > for not much of an improvement.
> > 
> > Doubling the resolution in time is possible at the expense of 
> > another 4030 (~300k on that output), but the approximation error is 
> > already larger than the extra precision afforded by adding that 
> > term.  Still, going to "12bits", that is using all the available 
> > outputs from the 4040 (but no XOR tree for producing higher order 
> > Walsh terms) needs two more 4030 with approximately double the 
> > resistor value into each consecutive stage, so the last one is close 
> > to 10MOhm and you'd have to match the resistors to 100ppm for this 
> > to be of any practical use.  Also you'd have to make sure that the 
> > noise sources in the system woudn't swamp that, either.  Also keep 
> > in mind that the 4040 is a ripple counter and the switching instants 
> > just won't line up nicely enough, adding quite a bit of glitch noise 
> > all by itself.
> > 
> > Achim.
> > -- 
> > +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+
> > 
> > SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
> > http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed May 28 18:01:09 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 09:01:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>

Ebay item: 160161196684

The guard isn't so much a plane, as a copper trace that surrounds the 
indicated pins.  If you look at page 3 of the Arp-Tech PDF you can just 
barely see it (the quality of the image is poor).  In the circuit, the 
guard ring surrounds the high-impedance node where the charge is held. 
If you do any repairs in this area make sure to clean the board of any 
residue which might form a leakage path and cause the S/H output voltage 
to droop over time.

-Dave

Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
> Csaba,
> 
> It's a ground plane on the circuit board to isolate the sensitive sections
> of the circuit from outside interference. High impedance on the op-amp input
> can pick up noise or unwanted signals very easily. Also you want the signal
> path between the switch (FET), cap and op-amp input to be as short as
> possible.
> 
> Jay S.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Csaba Zvekan
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:56 AM
> To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
> 
> 
> Hi everybody,
> 
> I am looking for the IMF-3958 or 2N3958 N-Channel J-FET for a ARP 4015
> S/H Submodule (ARP2600). Is there a good substitute ?
> Also looking at the schematics from ARP-TECH's site. I don't
> understand what the "GUARD" means coming from the Source of the 2N4392
> to the two Gates of the 2N3958.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Csaba



From jays at aracnet.com  Wed May 28 18:15:36 2008
From: jays at aracnet.com (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 08:15:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>

Csaba,

It's a ground plane on the circuit board to isolate the sensitive sections
of the circuit from outside interference. High impedance on the op-amp input
can pick up noise or unwanted signals very easily. Also you want the signal
path between the switch (FET), cap and op-amp input to be as short as
possible.

Jay S.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Csaba Zvekan
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:56 AM
To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule


Hi everybody,

I am looking for the IMF-3958 or 2N3958 N-Channel J-FET for a ARP 4015
S/H Submodule (ARP2600). Is there a good substitute ?
Also looking at the schematics from ARP-TECH's site. I don't
understand what the "GUARD" means coming from the Source of the 2N4392
to the two Gates of the 2N3958.


Thanks

Csaba




_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From ijfritz at comcast.net  Wed May 28 18:57:17 2008
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:57:17 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>
	<483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20080528104844.0219bf78@mail.comcast.net>

At 10:01 AM 5/28/2008, Dave Manley wrote:

>The guard isn't so much a plane, as a copper trace that surrounds the 
>indicated pins.  If you look at page 3 of the Arp-Tech PDF you can just 
>barely see it (the quality of the image is poor).  In the circuit, the 
>guard ring surrounds the high-impedance node where the charge is held.

Right. But more specifically, the guard ring is to eliminate current 
leakage into the high impedance node.  The guard ring is at the same 
potential as the node being guarded, so there can be no surface leakage 
current flowing between them.  Since the guard ring is at low impedance, it 
can suck up any surface current without affecting the circuit's 
performance.  (And, of course, this is a totally different thing from the 
use of a ground plane.)

Ian 



From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Wed May 28 19:56:33 2008
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:56:33 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] EDN blog on custom IC design at low cost
In-Reply-To: <483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>
	<483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE0EA@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>

Hi all,
Ok here's your chance to maybe get something started that will make us all
very happy.  Read this blog and leave a comment there:
http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=blog&blog_id=1700000170&blog_post_id=180
027218

Barry




From czvekan at gmail.com  Wed May 28 20:05:55 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:05:55 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>
	<483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <A103D386-ACB6-41A2-89ED-59887CD3FE79@gmail.com>

Thanks Dave,Thanks Jay,

I have been at my local electronic store today . And the younger  
employes didn't really understood it either.So they got a hold of the  
older retired big boss of the store and he was explaining something  
like David said. That it was a shielded wire from the switch FET   
2N4392 going to the Dual J-Fet IMF3958(2N3958)A and the shield going  
to the other J-Fet IMF3958(2N3958)B and just hangs there loose.I  
immediately asked him why loose and no connection?. For a newbie like  
me that is very confusing. So he explained something about the  
capacitor C8 0.022uF Polycarbonate???(don't exist anymore) that holds  
the charge while that loose wire is holding a steady state of  
blablabla impedance and ratio??? I honestly did not know what he was  
talking about. But then he analyzed the circuit further more and was  
suggesting to use a regular J-FET OP-AMP like the TL071 and hook up  
the Q5A line to the Non-Inverting Input and the Q5B to the Inverting  
Input. He also sold me some 2N5457 J-FETs to replicate the circuit and  
experiment with those and the LM301A. But the the problem there is  
matching the FET's .I know how to match NPN Transistors very good.

http://www.csaba.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=30

But N-Channel FET'S ? Hmmm...???.I have no idea?

So this is what I have so far for replicating/cloning the ARP 4015 S/H  
SubModule:

LM301A 		LM301A or LM351 I have been told that the LM351 work just as  
good so I replaced all the OP-AMPs with the LM351I am not sure about  
the compensation caps though ? Do they need to be eliminated ?
2N5172               NPN  BC547B   or BC182   which ones are better or  
does it matter ?
2N6076               PNP  BC178B  is that OK ?
2N4392               J-FET Switch I have found the originals 2N4392

also I was gonna ask if the 20pF and 30pF is critical in value since I  
have either 18/22pF or 33/27pF?

Csaba



On May 28, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Dave Manley wrote:

> Ebay item: 160161196684
>
> The guard isn't so much a plane, as a copper trace that surrounds  
> the indicated pins.  If you look at page 3 of the Arp-Tech PDF you  
> can just barely see it (the quality of the image is poor).  In the  
> circuit, the guard ring surrounds the high-impedance node where the  
> charge is held. If you do any repairs in this area make sure to  
> clean the board of any residue which might form a leakage path and  
> cause the S/H output voltage to droop over time.
>
> -Dave
>
> Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
>> Csaba,
>> It's a ground plane on the circuit board to isolate the sensitive  
>> sections
>> of the circuit from outside interference. High impedance on the op- 
>> amp input
>> can pick up noise or unwanted signals very easily. Also you want  
>> the signal
>> path between the switch (FET), cap and op-amp input to be as short as
>> possible.
>> Jay S.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Csaba Zvekan
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:56 AM
>> To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
>> Hi everybody,
>> I am looking for the IMF-3958 or 2N3958 N-Channel J-FET for a ARP  
>> 4015
>> S/H Submodule (ARP2600). Is there a good substitute ?
>> Also looking at the schematics from ARP-TECH's site. I don't
>> understand what the "GUARD" means coming from the Source of the  
>> 2N4392
>> to the two Gates of the 2N3958.
>> Thanks
>> Csaba
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

**************
http://www.csabazvekan.com
music stuff
http://www.csaba.ch
electronic stuff
http://www.synthmaniac.com
synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)







From czvekan at gmail.com  Wed May 28 20:25:51 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:25:51 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <A103D386-ACB6-41A2-89ED-59887CD3FE79@gmail.com>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>
	<483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>
	<A103D386-ACB6-41A2-89ED-59887CD3FE79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67C84789-619C-45CE-9C26-D9F84EBDB787@gmail.com>

I have found some here: http://www.donberg.de/descript/2/2n_3958.htm


but 11.99EURO is alot of money....


Csaba

On May 28, 2008, at 8:05 PM, Csaba Zvekan wrote:

> Thanks Dave,Thanks Jay,
>
> I have been at my local electronic store today . And the younger  
> employes didn't really understood it either.So they got a hold of  
> the older retired big boss of the store and he was explaining  
> something like David said. That it was a shielded wire from the  
> switch FET  2N4392 going to the Dual J-Fet IMF3958(2N3958)A and the  
> shield going to the other J-Fet IMF3958(2N3958)B and just hangs  
> there loose.I immediately asked him why loose and no connection?.  
> For a newbie like me that is very confusing. So he explained  
> something about the capacitor C8 0.022uF Polycarbonate???(don't  
> exist anymore) that holds the charge while that loose wire is  
> holding a steady state of blablabla impedance and ratio??? I  
> honestly did not know what he was talking about. But then he  
> analyzed the circuit further more and was suggesting to use a  
> regular J-FET OP-AMP like the TL071 and hook up the Q5A line to the  
> Non-Inverting Input and the Q5B to the Inverting Input. He also sold  
> me some 2N5457 J-FETs to replicate the circuit and experiment with  
> those and the LM301A. But the the problem there is matching the  
> FET's .I know how to match NPN Transistors very good.
>
> http://www.csaba.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=30
>
> But N-Channel FET'S ? Hmmm...???.I have no idea?
>
> So this is what I have so far for replicating/cloning the ARP 4015 S/ 
> H SubModule:
>
> LM301A 		LM301A or LM351 I have been told that the LM351 work just  
> as good so I replaced all the OP-AMPs with the LM351I am not sure  
> about the compensation caps though ? Do they need to be eliminated ?
> 2N5172               NPN  BC547B   or BC182   which ones are better  
> or does it matter ?
> 2N6076               PNP  BC178B  is that OK ?
> 2N4392               J-FET Switch I have found the originals 2N4392
>
> also I was gonna ask if the 20pF and 30pF is critical in value since  
> I have either 18/22pF or 33/27pF?
>
> Csaba
>
>
>
> On May 28, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Dave Manley wrote:
>
>> Ebay item: 160161196684
>>
>> The guard isn't so much a plane, as a copper trace that surrounds  
>> the indicated pins.  If you look at page 3 of the Arp-Tech PDF you  
>> can just barely see it (the quality of the image is poor).  In the  
>> circuit, the guard ring surrounds the high-impedance node where the  
>> charge is held. If you do any repairs in this area make sure to  
>> clean the board of any residue which might form a leakage path and  
>> cause the S/H output voltage to droop over time.
>>
>> -Dave
>>
>> Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
>>> Csaba,
>>> It's a ground plane on the circuit board to isolate the sensitive  
>>> sections
>>> of the circuit from outside interference. High impedance on the op- 
>>> amp input
>>> can pick up noise or unwanted signals very easily. Also you want  
>>> the signal
>>> path between the switch (FET), cap and op-amp input to be as short  
>>> as
>>> possible.
>>> Jay S.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl]On Behalf Of Csaba  
>>> Zvekan
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:56 AM
>>> To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
>>> Hi everybody,
>>> I am looking for the IMF-3958 or 2N3958 N-Channel J-FET for a ARP  
>>> 4015
>>> S/H Submodule (ARP2600). Is there a good substitute ?
>>> Also looking at the schematics from ARP-TECH's site. I don't
>>> understand what the "GUARD" means coming from the Source of the  
>>> 2N4392
>>> to the two Gates of the 2N3958.
>>> Thanks
>>> Csaba
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> **************
> http://www.csabazvekan.com
> music stuff
> http://www.csaba.ch
> electronic stuff
> http://www.synthmaniac.com
> synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

**************
http://www.csabazvekan.com
music stuff
http://www.csaba.ch
electronic stuff
http://www.synthmaniac.com
synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)







From rtellason at verizon.net  Wed May 28 20:49:46 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:49:46 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com>
References: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200805281449.47092.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 28 May 2008 08:55, Csaba Zvekan wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I am looking for the IMF-3958 or 2N3958 N-Channel J-FET for a ARP 4015
> S/H Submodule (ARP2600). Is there a good substitute ?

I'm thinking "E402" comes to mind for some reason -- dunno if that was a part 
that Moog used or what.  It's not that critical,  and pretty much any dual 
FET should work for you in that application.  Perhaps the charts I have 
online would be of some help with that:

http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/parts-index.html

> Also looking at the schematics from ARP-TECH's site. I don't understand what
> the "GUARD" means coming from the Source of the 2N4392 to the two Gates of
> the 2N3958. 

That refers to specific traces on the board that are designed to be at or near 
the gate potential.  As high impedance as that circuit is,  the layout of the 
board is fairly critical,  as well as things like cleaning it off of flux 
after you've soldered the new part in,  etc. -- you'll notice they don't use 
any solder mask on there,  or any other kind of coating,  they told me it 
caused them problems.  Just don't mess up the traces while you're removing 
and replacing and make it a point to clean things up afterwards and you 
shouldn't have any problem.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed May 28 20:58:59 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:58:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <67C84789-619C-45CE-9C26-D9F84EBDB787@gmail.com>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>	<483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>	<A103D386-ACB6-41A2-89ED-59887CD3FE79@gmail.com>
	<67C84789-619C-45CE-9C26-D9F84EBDB787@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <483DAB73.3080908@sonic.net>

Csaba Zvekan wrote:

>> So this is what I have so far for replicating/cloning the ARP 4015 S/H 
>> SubModule:

If you are just looking to clone the same function instead of repairing 
(or replacing) an existing 4015 module, there's really not much of the 
4015 you'd want to keep.  It is a very old design and there are much 
better modern equivalents.  Take a look on the various sdiy sites, I'm 
sure there is a more modern starting point you could use as a reference.

-Dave



From rtellason at verizon.net  Wed May 28 20:59:35 2008
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:59:35 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <A103D386-ACB6-41A2-89ED-59887CD3FE79@gmail.com>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>
	<483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>
	<A103D386-ACB6-41A2-89ED-59887CD3FE79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200805281459.36081.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Wednesday 28 May 2008 14:05, Csaba Zvekan wrote:
> So he explained something about the capacitor C8 0.022uF Polycarbonate???
> (don't exist anymore)  

Yeah they do...

I even have some,  though I'm not sure if they're that value or not.

> that holds the charge while that loose wire is holding a steady state of
> blablabla impedance and ratio??? I honestly did not know what he was 
> talking about. But then he analyzed the circuit further more and was
> suggesting to use a regular J-FET OP-AMP like the TL071 and hook up
> the Q5A line to the Non-Inverting Input and the Q5B to the Inverting
> Input. He also sold me some 2N5457 J-FETs to replicate the circuit and
> experiment with those and the LM301A. But the the problem there is
> matching the FET's .I know how to match NPN Transistors very good.
>
> http://www.csaba.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=30
>
> But N-Channel FET'S ? Hmmm...???.I have no idea?

I suspect that it's not so much matching as it is thermal tracking that has 
them using a dual FET in that circuit.  You could try it with two separate 
ones attached together (like they do with the expo pairs in the VCOs and 
such) and see if that works out okay.  The feedback from the op amp is going 
to pretty much self-correct any imbalance anyhow.

> So this is what I have so far for replicating/cloning the ARP 4015 S/H
> SubModule:
>
> LM301A 		LM301A or LM351 I have been told that the LM351 work just as
> good so I replaced all the OP-AMPs with the LM351I am not sure about
> the compensation caps though ? Do they need to be eliminated ?

Look at the datasheet for the part you're using and see what's connected to 
those pins.

> 2N5172               NPN  BC547B   or BC182   which ones are better or
> does it matter ?
> 2N6076               PNP  BC178B  is that OK ?
> 2N4392               J-FET Switch I have found the originals 2N4392

See my parts pages for datasheets on at least some of these,  probably many of 
them (I can't say offhand without looking).

> also I was gonna ask if the 20pF and 30pF is critical in value since I
> have either 18/22pF or 33/27pF?

That's not that critical either.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Wed May 28 22:57:39 2008
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 22:57:39 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] EDN blog on custom IC design at low cost
In-Reply-To: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE0EA@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>
	<483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>
	<6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE0EA@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
Message-ID: <200805282257.39940.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Mittwoch 28 Mai 2008, Barry Klein wrote:
> Ok here's your chance to maybe get something started that will make
> us all very happy.

Note that all the technologies mentioned in PaUl's blog are CMOS 
(sometimes with RF bipolar), but not by a long stretch complementary 
bipolar.  A much more likely route to your custom IC would be using 
something like THAT Corp. 380G transistor arrays and make hybrid IC 
from them.  Or maybe talk to the guys there and convince them of doing 
something monolithic - they've had set up a booth on this years 
Musikmesse, so they are well aware where their target market is.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds



From djservs at comcast.net  Wed May 28 23:11:38 2008
From: djservs at comcast.net (djservs at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 21:11:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] FS 80017a 
Message-ID: <052820082111.9719.483DCA8A000674D7000025F722155517249C909D0A9C060B@comcast.net>

still have 3 chips left, if anyone wants to them.....
cheers
nate


From rob at emulatorarchive.com  Wed May 28 23:27:27 2008
From: rob at emulatorarchive.com (rob)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 22:27:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <67C84789-619C-45CE-9C26-D9F84EBDB787@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8c109$a4e13c30$0202a8c0@LENOVO>

Hi
2N3958's are on ebay.com at 5.95 US dollars.
2N5172 and 2N6076 are available from mouser.com

But if you need just a few, email me off list as I have them all..

Regards
rob

>>> Hi everybody,
>>> I am looking for the IMF-3958 or 2N3958 N-Channel J-FET for a ARP  
>>> 4015
>>> S/H Submodule (ARP2600). Is there a good substitute ?
>>> Also looking at the schematics from ARP-TECH's site. I don't
>>> understand what the "GUARD" means coming from the Source of the  
>>> 2N4392
>>> to the two Gates of the 2N3958.
>>> Thanks
>>> Csaba




From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Thu May 29 00:12:05 2008
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 15:12:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <20080527203749.M57611@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <338204.33739.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

On the now sorta-tangent of Walsh functions, anyone
built anything out of <a
href="http://www.wiseguysynth.com/larry/schematics/walsh/walsh.htm">this</a>?
(They do mention sines right off the bat).

--- harrybissell at wowway.com wrote:

> The best improvement might indeed (as you mention in
> the last line)
> be making the counter synchronous. For 4 bits its no
> extra trouble...
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 27 May 2008 21:46:43 +0200, ASSI wrote
> > On Dienstag 27 Mai 2008, Paul Perry wrote:
> > > Boring or not, that EDN circuit is only 4 bits,
> so it's going to be
> > > very lumpy indeed.
> > 
> > I shouldn't make such obtuse jokes, sorry - but I
> find the stuff 
> > they've left out is almost more interesting than
> what is written in 
> > such articles...  As a thought provoking device
> they are quite 
> > useful however and once in a while they might even
> solve the problem 
> > at hand without further ado.
> > 
> > > How difficult would it be to extend the
> principle to 12 bits say?
> > > (impossible for a non-mathematician like myself,
> but there is
> > > obviously Talent on this list..)
> > 
> > Due to the symmetry properties of the sine wave
> the arrangement as 
> > shown in EDN is actually quite good and not easy
> to improve without 
> > a lot more effort (does "diminishing returns" ring
> a bell?).  Hang 
> > on, I'll try to explain.  The Walsh coefficients
> for the first 64 
> > Walsh functions (the 0th would be for any DC
> component, which is of 
> > course not present in these signals) for the
> "standard" waveforms 
> > (normalized to amplitude 1.0) are:
> > 
> >    n      Sine    Cosine   |/| Saw   /|/ Saw  
> Sin-Tri  Cos-Tri
> >    0   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >    1   0.63662   0.00000  -0.50000   0.50000  
> 0.50000  0.00000
> >    2   0.00000   0.63662   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.50000
> >    3   0.00000   0.00000  -0.25000  -0.25000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >    4   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >    5  -0.26370   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000 
> -0.25000  0.00000
> >    6   0.00000   0.26370   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.25000
> >    7   0.00000   0.00000  -0.12500  -0.12500  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >    8   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >    9  -0.05245   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   10   0.00000  -0.05245   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   11   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   12   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   13  -0.12663   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000 
> -0.12500  0.00000
> >   14   0.00000   0.12663   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.12500
> >   15   0.00000   0.00000  -0.06250  -0.06250  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   16   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   17  -0.01247   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   18   0.00000  -0.01247   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   19   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   20   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   21   0.00517   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   22   0.00000  -0.00517   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   23   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   24   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   25  -0.02597   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   26   0.00000  -0.02597   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   27   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   28   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   29  -0.06270   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000 
> -0.06250  0.00000
> >   30   0.00000   0.06270   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.06250
> >   31   0.00000   0.00000  -0.03125  -0.03125  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   32   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   33  -0.00308   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   34   0.00000  -0.00308   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   35   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   36   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   37   0.00128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   38   0.00000  -0.00128   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   39   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   40   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   41   0.00025   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   42   0.00000   0.00025   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   43   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   44   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   45   0.00061   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   46   0.00000  -0.00061   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   47   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   48   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   49  -0.00622   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   50   0.00000  -0.00622   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   51   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   52   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   53   0.00258   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   54   0.00000  -0.00258   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   55   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   56   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   57  -0.01295   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   58   0.00000  -0.01295   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   59   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   60   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> >   61  -0.03128   0.00000   0.00000   0.00000 
> -0.03125  0.00000
> >   62   0.00000   0.03128   0.00000   0.00000  
> 0.00000  0.03125
> >   63   0.00000   0.00000  -0.01562  -0.01562  
> 0.00000  0.00000
> > 
> > I hope you see how the symmetry present in the
> signal maps to which 
> > Walsh coefficients are non-zero.  The ramp
> functions don't need 
> > anything else but binary weighted square waves of
> successively 
> > doubling frequency for their approximation as
> anybody who has 
> > watched the output from a binary counter can
> attest.  That's your 
> > cue as to where the square waves coming from the
> 4040 are present in 
> > the table.  Now if you multiply (and that
> operation maps to an XOR 
> > operation in the circuit) any Walsh function W_n
> with W_1, then you 
> > get W_(n-1).  That's the second cue you need to
> decipher the EDN circuit.
> > 
> > Equipped with that information one sees that the
> EDN circuit 
> > actually approximates a cosine, this is done via
> the XOR arrangement 
> > with Q4, which consequently is associated with
> W_1.  So the inputs 
> 
=== message truncated ===



      


From julian at port23.co.uk  Thu May 29 02:07:41 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 01:07:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to worry?
Message-ID: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>

Im having a bit of a tidy up at the moment, and have a load of ICs to deal with .

Most of my other components are stored in draw things, a bit like this -

http://www.toolspecial.com/images/550_3.jpg

but evrey time i order any ICs at all now, they seem to come in anti-static bags as standard.... so thats got me to wondering if i 
should worry too much about all this in storage?

Somthing ive also wondered - in a conductive bag, surely if theres an issue with static, without proper grounding, the whole lot get 
'zapped' insted of just individuals?  As you may have gathered, i dont know much about this... ! : )

Julian 


-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 10046 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len




From tu at alphalink.com.au  Thu May 29 03:10:36 2008
From: tu at alphalink.com.au (Tristan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:10:36 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to worry?
In-Reply-To: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>
Message-ID: <1864115231.20080529111036@alphalink.com.au>

Hi Julian,

If you are concerned about static then you should always try to keep
ICs in their antistatic tubes, antistatic bags and/or in antistatic
foam (usually black or pink). Do not store them loose in plastic
drawers or in white polystyrene foam! Some people spray polystyrene
foam with a conductive coating or cover it with foil but these are not
a good solution as the high conductivity can be a problem if a static
charge is applied.

The materials used in antistatic bags and foam etc are conductive but
have a relatively low conductivity. If you touch the antistatic
material when you are statically charged the charge spreads through
the material slowly, thus only producing a small local differential
between pins on ICs. It is the high voltages typically involved in
static discharge, combined with a path of low conductivity, that leads
to high currents between the IC pins and damage to the circuit inside.

For best protection you should also use an antistatic bench mat where
you are working and an antistatic wrist strap. The antistatic mat
should be grounded to your electrical earth through at least several
Meg ohms and your wrist strap should be connected to the mat or ground
through several Meg ohms as well. Synthetic clothing and shoes can
also generate or allow the build up of static charge on your body, as
can walking across synthetic carpets etc.

In the electronics labs where I work all benches and flooring have
antistatic coatings and we are required to wear antistatic shoes or
heel straps while working in the lab. The benches and equipment racks
also have antistatic wrist straps to use when handling boards and ICs.
Despite all these precautions I have still seen boards destroyed by
careless people taking off synthetic clothing.

-- 
Best regards,
Tristan                            mailto:tu at alphalink.com.au

Thursday, May 29, 2008, 10:07:41 AM, you wrote:

J> Im having a bit of a tidy up at the moment, and have a load of ICs to deal with .

J> Most of my other components are stored in draw things, a bit like this -

J> http://www.toolspecial.com/images/550_3.jpg

J> but evrey time i order any ICs at all now, they seem to come in
J> anti-static bags as standard.... so thats got me to wondering
J> if i 
J> should worry too much about all this in storage?

J> Somthing ive also wondered - in a conductive bag, surely if theres
J> an issue with static, without proper grounding, the whole
J> lot get 
J> 'zapped' insted of just individuals?  As you may have gathered, i
J> dont know much about this... ! : )

J> Julian 






From tu at alphalink.com.au  Thu May 29 03:17:57 2008
From: tu at alphalink.com.au (Tristan Upton)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 10:47:57 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to worry?
In-Reply-To: <1864115231.20080529111036@alphalink.com.au>
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>
	<1864115231.20080529111036@alphalink.com.au>
Message-ID: <20080529011757.BDB57F400A@mail01.chariot.net.au>

Ooop, in paragraph 2 I mean't to say: 

It is the high voltages typically involved in static discharge, combined 
with a path of HIGH conductivity, that leads to high currents between the IC 
pins and damage to the circuit inside. 

-- 
Best regards,
Tristan                            mailto:tu at alphalink.com.au 

Tristan writes: 

> Hi Julian, 
> 
> If you are concerned about static then you should always try to keep
> ICs in their antistatic tubes, antistatic bags and/or in antistatic
> foam (usually black or pink). Do not store them loose in plastic
> drawers or in white polystyrene foam! Some people spray polystyrene
> foam with a conductive coating or cover it with foil but these are not
> a good solution as the high conductivity can be a problem if a static
> charge is applied. 
> 
> The materials used in antistatic bags and foam etc are conductive but
> have a relatively low conductivity. If you touch the antistatic
> material when you are statically charged the charge spreads through
> the material slowly, thus only producing a small local differential
> between pins on ICs. It is the high voltages typically involved in
> static discharge, combined with a path of low conductivity, that leads
> to high currents between the IC pins and damage to the circuit inside. 
> 
> For best protection you should also use an antistatic bench mat where
> you are working and an antistatic wrist strap. The antistatic mat
> should be grounded to your electrical earth through at least several
> Meg ohms and your wrist strap should be connected to the mat or ground
> through several Meg ohms as well. Synthetic clothing and shoes can
> also generate or allow the build up of static charge on your body, as
> can walking across synthetic carpets etc. 
> 
> In the electronics labs where I work all benches and flooring have
> antistatic coatings and we are required to wear antistatic shoes or
> heel straps while working in the lab. The benches and equipment racks
> also have antistatic wrist straps to use when handling boards and ICs.
> Despite all these precautions I have still seen boards destroyed by
> careless people taking off synthetic clothing. 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Tristan                            mailto:tu at alphalink.com.au 
> 
> Thursday, May 29, 2008, 10:07:41 AM, you wrote: 
> 
> J> Im having a bit of a tidy up at the moment, and have a load of ICs to deal with . 
> 
> J> Most of my other components are stored in draw things, a bit like this - 
> 
> J> http://www.toolspecial.com/images/550_3.jpg 
> 
> J> but evrey time i order any ICs at all now, they seem to come in
> J> anti-static bags as standard.... so thats got me to wondering
> J> if i 
> J> should worry too much about all this in storage? 
> 
> J> Somthing ive also wondered - in a conductive bag, surely if theres
> J> an issue with static, without proper grounding, the whole
> J> lot get 
> J> 'zapped' insted of just individuals?  As you may have gathered, i
> J> dont know much about this... ! : ) 
> 
> J> Julian  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From tu at alphalink.com.au  Thu May 29 03:25:29 2008
From: tu at alphalink.com.au (Tristan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:25:29 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to
	worry?
In-Reply-To: <1864115231.20080529111036@alphalink.com.au>
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>
	<1864115231.20080529111036@alphalink.com.au>
Message-ID: <12110298754.20080529112529@alphalink.com.au>

Ooops, in paragraph 2 I meant to say:

It is the high voltages typically involved in static discharge, combined 
with a path of HIGH conductivity, that leads to high currents between the IC 
pins and damage to the circuit inside. 

-- 
Best regards,
Tristan                            mailto:tu at alphalink.com.au

Thursday, May 29, 2008, 11:10:36 AM, you wrote:

T> Hi Julian,

T> If you are concerned about static then you should always try to keep
T> ICs in their antistatic tubes, antistatic bags and/or in antistatic
T> foam (usually black or pink). Do not store them loose in plastic
T> drawers or in white polystyrene foam! Some people spray polystyrene
T> foam with a conductive coating or cover it with foil but these are not
T> a good solution as the high conductivity can be a problem if a static
T> charge is applied.

T> The materials used in antistatic bags and foam etc are conductive but
T> have a relatively low conductivity. If you touch the antistatic
T> material when you are statically charged the charge spreads through
T> the material slowly, thus only producing a small local differential
T> between pins on ICs. It is the high voltages typically involved in
T> static discharge, combined with a path of low conductivity, that leads
T> to high currents between the IC pins and damage to the circuit inside.

T> For best protection you should also use an antistatic bench mat where
T> you are working and an antistatic wrist strap. The antistatic mat
T> should be grounded to your electrical earth through at least several
T> Meg ohms and your wrist strap should be connected to the mat or ground
T> through several Meg ohms as well. Synthetic clothing and shoes can
T> also generate or allow the build up of static charge on your body, as
T> can walking across synthetic carpets etc.

T> In the electronics labs where I work all benches and flooring have
T> antistatic coatings and we are required to wear antistatic shoes or
T> heel straps while working in the lab. The benches and equipment racks
T> also have antistatic wrist straps to use when handling boards and ICs.
T> Despite all these precautions I have still seen boards destroyed by
T> careless people taking off synthetic clothing.

-- 
Best regards,
Tristan                            mailto:tu at alphalink.com.au




From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu May 29 11:37:44 2008
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 10:37:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <483DAB73.3080908@sonic.net>
References: <GDEMKJDLKPDJFJGFBDFGIENIDCAA.jays@aracnet.com>	<483D81C5.7090907@sonic.net>	<A103D386-ACB6-41A2-89ED-59887CD3FE79@gmail.com>
	<67C84789-619C-45CE-9C26-D9F84EBDB787@gmail.com>
	<483DAB73.3080908@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <6F36EDFF-3777-46CE-9906-079CCB64C4FF@electricdruid.net>


On 28 May 2008, at 19:58, Dave Manley wrote:

> Csaba Zvekan wrote:
>
>>> So this is what I have so far for replicating/cloning the ARP  
>>> 4015 S/H SubModule:
>
> If you are just looking to clone the same function instead of  
> repairing (or replacing) an existing 4015 module, there's really  
> not much of the 4015 you'd want to keep.  It is a very old design  
> and there are much better modern equivalents.  Take a look on the  
> various sdiy sites, I'm sure there is a more modern starting point  
> you could use as a reference.

Yes, I wondered why you'd want to clone the actual circuit too.  
Sample-and-hold isn't something that adds a particular quality to  
your sound, so why go for an old design and not a more modern one  
that does the same thing but better?

Obviously if you're repairing an old ARP, then it's a different  
question.

T.





From czvekan at gmail.com  Thu May 29 11:48:13 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:48:13 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <87441170805281235s85b82f5wcf8ddebfef509d93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com>
	<87441170805281235s85b82f5wcf8ddebfef509d93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F22D8809-2CE4-4FCE-AC3C-302021D41F0E@gmail.com>

Hi everybody,

First of all thanks for all the help and the input you all have given  
me so far. Since the S/H submodule for the ARP 2600 is packed in  
plastic I can't do any troubleshooting or repair. So I would have to  
recreate it. But the idea of implementing a newer design sounds even  
better .
Looking at Yves Usson's Site http://yusynth.net/Modular/index.html the  
Noise Generator Sample/Hold. I was wondering if I could use  just the  
bottom of the schematic for my purpose?
Since the ARP 2600 generates a clock signal and Noise Generator on  
other parts of the PCB I was wondering if that clock that is produced   
can be used to drive this circuit. (compatible)on PIN4 of the 4015 is  
only   ( ?|  signal not a square ) I wonder if that is enough to  
trigger the new circuit ?
I have used this circuit from Yves in my DIY Modular Synth and it  
works great. I think by removing the Noise Generator part ,the S&H  
Rate part and remove the slew rate part I could have a pretty basic S/ 
H  circuit for my 4015 replacement.
Also by removing the Slew Rate I have to remove the whole U2c  
circuitry and have U2b pin 7 as S/H output .... right ?
What do you think ?

Csaba





From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May 29 14:36:39 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:36:39 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Low Frequency Square to Sine Waveshaper
In-Reply-To: <20080528125615.M67083@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c8c188$a4fa76d0$8501a8c0@ice9>

Thanks for saving me the effort of building it, Harry!
Just HOW bad is it, can you say?

paul perry Melbourne Australia

-----Original Message-----
I just did a quick simulation of the four bit solution from
Electronic Design...
http://electronicdesign.com/Files/29/6293/Figure_01.gif
Its bad... VERY bad.  No one would use this...
H^) harry




From Alan.Needham at centrica.com  Thu May 29 15:05:05 2008
From: Alan.Needham at centrica.com (Needham, Alan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 14:05:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to worry?
In-Reply-To: <1864115231.20080529111036@alphalink.com.au>
Message-ID: <7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D85BEBA0@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>


I have a big problem with this explanation, even after inserting the
supplied correction.

An antistatic bag may measure a few hundred kOhms from corner to corner,
I do not believe that this is enough to slow down any charge front, and
if it did, it would result in the very thing you are trying to avoid -
pins at significantly different voltages.
As I understand it, the packaging attempts to provide some form of
Faraday cage around the device; no matter what static voltage is
applied, all the pins need to be maintained at the same potential, even
if that is 1000's of volts above ground. Aluminium foil would be ideal
IF you could guarantee a connection to every pin.

~~~Snip~~
The materials used in antistatic bags and foam etc are conductive but
have a relatively low conductivity. If you touch the antistatic
material when you are statically charged the charge spreads through
the material slowly, thus only producing a small local differential
between pins on ICs.
~~Snip~~
It is the high voltages typically involved in static discharge, combined
with a path of HIGH conductivity, that leads to high currents between
the IC pins and damage to the circuit inside.
~~Snip~~

_____________________________________________________________________
The information contained in or attached to this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. It may contain information which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in jurisdictions outside England and Wales).
The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or employees make no representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or completeness unless expressly stated to the contrary.

Centrica plc

Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD

Registered in England and Wales No 3033654



From music.maker at gte.net  Thu May 29 15:34:05 2008
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 06:34:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to worry?
Message-ID: <200805291334.m4TDY4VZ017722@linux7.lan>

"Needham, Alan" <Alan.Needham at centrica.com> wrote:
>
>I have a big problem with this explanation, even after inserting the
>supplied correction.
>
>An antistatic bag may measure a few hundred kOhms from corner to corner,
>I do not believe that this is enough to slow down any charge front, and
>if it did, it would result in the very thing you are trying to avoid -
>pins at significantly different voltages.
>As I understand it, the packaging attempts to provide some form of
>Faraday cage around the device; no matter what static voltage is
>applied, all the pins need to be maintained at the same potential, even
>if that is 1000's of volts above ground. Aluminium foil would be ideal
>IF you could guarantee a connection to every pin.

If I remember my physics correctly, the charge on the inside of a hollow metal sphere
is always zero regardless of the charge on the sphere itself.  This is because
electrons all push away from each other, so all of the free electrons would move to the
surface of the sphere to be farthest away from each other.  While a conductive bag is
not a metal sphere, it is still a conductive containter.  It's charge may be
significant on the outside, but inside it should be zero.  So I think that things
inside the bag would also be at zero potential having given up any charge they may have
had to the bag which then ends up on the bags exterior surface.  The charge on the
outside of the bag is easily removed by being grounded yourself and touching the bag.


>~~~Snip~~
>The materials used in antistatic bags and foam etc are conductive but
>have a relatively low conductivity. If you touch the antistatic
>material when you are statically charged the charge spreads through
>the material slowly, thus only producing a small local differential
>between pins on ICs.
>~~Snip~~
>It is the high voltages typically involved in static discharge, combined
>with a path of HIGH conductivity, that leads to high currents between
>the IC pins and damage to the circuit inside.
>~~Snip~~
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>The information contained in or attached to this email is 
>intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it 
>is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person 
>responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are 
>not authorised to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or 
>retain this message or any part of it. It may contain information 
>which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or 
>other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in 
>jurisdictions outside England and Wales). The views expressed in 
>this email are not necessarily the views of Centrica plc, and the 
>company, its directors, officers or employees make no 
>representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or 
>completeness unless expressly stated to the contrary. 
>
>Centrica plc
>
>Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD
>
>Registered in England and Wales No 3033654
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- GateManPoly - FPGA Based Polyphonic MIDI LA/FM Synthesizer
-- GateMan-III - FPGA Based Monophonic MIDI LA/FM Synthesizer
-- PolyDaWG/8 - FPGA Based 8 Voice Polyphonic MIDI Synthesizer
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From czvekan at gmail.com  Thu May 29 16:17:04 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 16:17:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <4952F633F6959741BCD5E10D7842E20107C8B8BB@epbsa003.budapest.epam.com>
References: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com><87441170805281235s85b82f5wcf8ddebfef509d93@mail.gmail.com>
	<F22D8809-2CE4-4FCE-AC3C-302021D41F0E@gmail.com>
	<4952F633F6959741BCD5E10D7842E20107C8B8BB@epbsa003.budapest.epam.com>
Message-ID: <D7933524-9085-42A6-BEAF-DBC0F8D1A524@gmail.com>

HI,

OK . I have decided on Yves Ussons S/H  module. I quickly breadboarded  
the thing and it seems to when.

1. The Noise Generator Source is directly feed from the NOISE Output.
2. The Circuit gets a nice Square wave. That ARP pulse stuff just  
won't work. I have no Idea why they changed the clock from Square to   
_|_ this ??

Anyhow if I'd  remove R321 and C86 from the Noise Source / S/H Input  
it will probably work. But then what effect would the 100K S/H Input  
Slider have ? HMM...

Also if I forget  about R391,R392,C119,R390 and just jumper the whole  
thing straight from the INT Clock Output then it would work too.

What is the deal with that "ELECTRONIC SWITCH" I never understood what  
it 's supposed to do. With the A, B, C Outputs? Can somebody explain  
that part of my synth?

Or is there an easy way to modify the new S/H circuitry ?


Csaba




From james at 4thharmonic.com  Thu May 29 17:18:00 2008
From: james at 4thharmonic.com (James Dunn)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 16:18:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <D7933524-9085-42A6-BEAF-DBC0F8D1A524@gmail.com>
References: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com><87441170805281235s85b82f5wcf8ddebfef509d93@mail.gmail.com>	<F22D8809-2CE4-4FCE-AC3C-302021D41F0E@gmail.com>	<4952F633F6959741BCD5E10D7842E20107C8B8BB@epbsa003.budapest.epam.com>
	<D7933524-9085-42A6-BEAF-DBC0F8D1A524@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <483EC928.3010203@4thharmonic.com>

If I understand you correctly and you just want to replace the 4015 S/H 
module with Yves Usson's circuit, I think I would try the following:

1) Connect wiper of S/H level pot R319 (100k lin) to R10 of Yves Usson's 
S/H.
2) Connect R391 (47k) of S/H clock input to pin 12 of Yves Usson's S/H.
3) Connect R393 (1k) of S/H output to pin 7 (U2b) of Yves Usson's S/H OR 
pin 8 (U2c) if using the slew rate function.

> 2. The Circuit gets a nice Square wave. That ARP pulse stuff just 
> won't work. I have no Idea why they changed the clock from Square to 
> _|_ this ??

The transistor in the ARP S/H circuit needs to be turned on for a split 
second to sample the input voltage, so C119 reduces a gate signal to a 
trigger signal.
>
> Anyhow if I'd remove R321 and C86 from the Noise Source / S/H Input it 
> will probably work. But then what effect would the 100K S/H Input 
> Slider have ? HMM...
As mentioned above, I would just leave them be and you can use R319 as a 
level control for the attenuation of the input signal (ie noise)
>
> Also if I forget about R391,R392,C119,R390 and just jumper the whole 
> thing straight from the INT Clock Output then it would work too.

These do a similar function to C4, D2 and R11 in Yves' circuit. I would 
just use the original ARP parts and save the bother of replacing this 
section.
>
> What is the deal with that "ELECTRONIC SWITCH" I never understood what 
> it 's supposed to do. With the A, B, C Outputs? Can somebody explain 
> that part of my synth?
It's a bidirectional switch for audio or control voltages and switches 
one input to 2 alternate outputs, or two outputs to 2 alternate inputs 
according to the S/H master clock rate.

James


From djservs at comcast.net  Thu May 29 17:29:13 2008
From: djservs at comcast.net (djservs at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:29:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] JUNO 106 parts faders! anything!  LOL
Message-ID: <052920081529.6685.483ECBC900008B6500001A1D22165384969C909D0A9C060B@comcast.net>

HI all!
i am restoring a JUNO 106 i got off GEARSLUTZ.....
i need a juno for parts, voices or not, or does someone know where to get the faders for the juno (i think there are 20 total, including the pitch bend parts)....
i though someone sold them on ebay, chipforbrains?
maybe a trade of parts?
i have extra key octaves, ends, and caps/switches, etc....

anyway, anyone need to trade or sell/buy i am looking, i want this overhauled and working by the end of summer
what leds do i use if i want to replace them all with white or UV?  where can i get the segment LED in UV?
as shown here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310054198293&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=021
i got some wood sides so it will look sweet once completed!  8^p
cheers!
nate


From czvekan at gmail.com  Thu May 29 18:04:28 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 18:04:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <483EC928.3010203@4thharmonic.com>
References: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com><87441170805281235s85b82f5wcf8ddebfef509d93@mail.gmail.com>	<F22D8809-2CE4-4FCE-AC3C-302021D41F0E@gmail.com>	<4952F633F6959741BCD5E10D7842E20107C8B8BB@epbsa003.budapest.epam.com>
	<D7933524-9085-42A6-BEAF-DBC0F8D1A524@gmail.com>
	<483EC928.3010203@4thharmonic.com>
Message-ID: <04382590-2C0A-43BC-905D-008546BE15A0@gmail.com>

Thanks James,

Yes sometimes I a have a hard time expressing myself properly,I'm  
sorry for that .So, pretty much everything works as a direct  
replacement PIN to PIN as you mentioned below except :

> 2) Connect R391 (47k) of S/H clock input to pin 12 of Yves Usson's S/ 
> H.

this is not working since Yves S/H module I believe expects as Square  
Wave signal (then it works) and the ARP is generating that weird  
trigger signal nobody can use but ARP. I even have tried the other way  
around triggering my Modular DIY synth's S/H (same module) from the  
ARP it won't budge.Is there a little circuitry that I could put in  
front of Yves circuitry to accept the ARP trigger signal .Or maybe  
remove some parts  . Because the other  way around I would have to tap  
into R288,R386 to get the clean Square to work.


>> Also if I forget about R391,R392,C119,R390 and just jumper the  
>> whole thing straight from the INT Clock Output then it would work  
>> too.
>
> These do a similar function to C4, D2 and R11 in Yves' circuit. I  
> would just use the original ARP parts and save the bother of  
> replacing this section.

What if I go straight from R391(ARP)  into Yves ( pin12 of U2d's Non- 
Inverting ) would that resolve my issue?

Csaba

On May 29, 2008, at 5:18 PM, James Dunn wrote:

> If I understand you correctly and you just want to replace the 4015  
> S/H module with Yves Usson's circuit, I think I would try the  
> following:
>
> 1) Connect wiper of S/H level pot R319 (100k lin) to R10 of Yves  
> Usson's S/H.
> 2) Connect R391 (47k) of S/H clock input to pin 12 of Yves Usson's S/ 
> H.
> 3) Connect R393 (1k) of S/H output to pin 7 (U2b) of Yves Usson's S/ 
> H OR pin 8 (U2c) if using the slew rate function.
>
>> 2. The Circuit gets a nice Square wave. That ARP pulse stuff just  
>> won't work. I have no Idea why they changed the clock from Square  
>> to _|_ this ??
>
> The transistor in the ARP S/H circuit needs to be turned on for a  
> split second to sample the input voltage, so C119 reduces a gate  
> signal to a trigger signal.
>>
>> Anyhow if I'd remove R321 and C86 from the Noise Source / S/H Input  
>> it will probably work. But then what effect would the 100K S/H  
>> Input Slider have ? HMM...
> As mentioned above, I would just leave them be and you can use R319  
> as a level control for the attenuation of the input signal (ie noise)
>>
>> Also if I forget about R391,R392,C119,R390 and just jumper the  
>> whole thing straight from the INT Clock Output then it would work  
>> too.
>
> These do a similar function to C4, D2 and R11 in Yves' circuit. I  
> would just use the original ARP parts and save the bother of  
> replacing this section.
>>
>> What is the deal with that "ELECTRONIC SWITCH" I never understood  
>> what it 's supposed to do. With the A, B, C Outputs? Can somebody  
>> explain that part of my synth?
> It's a bidirectional switch for audio or control voltages and  
> switches one input to 2 alternate outputs, or two outputs to 2  
> alternate inputs according to the S/H master clock rate.
>
> James

**************
http://www.csabazvekan.com
music stuff
http://www.csaba.ch
electronic stuff
http://www.synthmaniac.com
synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)







From mirwin at marketbridge.ca  Thu May 29 18:21:44 2008
From: mirwin at marketbridge.ca (Mike I)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 12:21:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to worry?
References: <7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D85BEBA0@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c8c1a8$16a2e5a0$ccdb47d1@ca>

Aluminum foil not ideal ( and  solid aluminum antistatic tubes were once
used  ), but a bit of resistivity  is supposed to help... by limiting
discharge currents into IC pins when they are put into the rail or
antistatic bag, if the pins and the bag / rail are at different potentials..
M.



----- Original Message -----
From: Needham, Alan <Alan.Needham at centrica.com>
To: Tristan <tu at alphalink.com.au>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to
worry?


>
> I have a big problem with this explanation, even after inserting the
> supplied correction.
>
> An antistatic bag may measure a few hundred kOhms from corner to corner,
> I do not believe that this is enough to slow down any charge front, and
> if it did, it would result in the very thing you are trying to avoid -
> pins at significantly different voltages.
> As I understand it, the packaging attempts to provide some form of
> Faraday cage around the device; no matter what static voltage is
> applied, all the pins need to be maintained at the same potential, even
> if that is 1000's of volts above ground. Aluminium foil would be ideal
> IF you could guarantee a connection to every pin.
>
> ~~~Snip~~
> The materials used in antistatic bags and foam etc are conductive but
> have a relatively low conductivity. If you touch the antistatic
> material when you are statically charged the charge spreads through
> the material slowly, thus only producing a small local differential
> between pins on ICs.
> ~~Snip~~
> It is the high voltages typically involved in static discharge, combined
> with a path of HIGH conductivity, that leads to high currents between
> the IC pins and damage to the circuit inside.
> ~~Snip~~
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> The information contained in or attached to this email is intended only
for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are
not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy,
distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. It may contain
information which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or
other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in jurisdictions
outside England and Wales).
> The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of
Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or employees make no
representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or completeness
unless expressly stated to the contrary.
>
> Centrica plc
>
> Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD
>
> Registered in England and Wales No 3033654
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From james at 4thharmonic.com  Thu May 29 18:50:41 2008
From: james at 4thharmonic.com (James Dunn)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 17:50:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <04382590-2C0A-43BC-905D-008546BE15A0@gmail.com>
References: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com><87441170805281235s85b82f5wcf8ddebfef509d93@mail.gmail.com>	<F22D8809-2CE4-4FCE-AC3C-302021D41F0E@gmail.com>	<4952F633F6959741BCD5E10D7842E20107C8B8BB@epbsa003.budapest.epam.com>	<D7933524-9085-42A6-BEAF-DBC0F8D1A524@gmail.com>	<483EC928.3010203@4thharmonic.com>
	<04382590-2C0A-43BC-905D-008546BE15A0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <483EDEE1.6020104@4thharmonic.com>


> So, pretty much everything works as a direct replacement PIN to PIN as 
> you mentioned below except :
>
>> 2) Connect R391 (47k) of S/H clock input to pin 12 of Yves Usson's S/H.
>
> this is not working since Yves S/H module I believe expects as Square 
> Wave signal (then it works) and the ARP is generating that weird 
> trigger signal nobody can use but ARP. I even have tried the other way 
> around triggering my Modular DIY synth's S/H (same module) from the 
> ARP it won't budge.Is there a little circuitry that I could put in 
> front of Yves circuitry to accept the ARP trigger signal .Or maybe 
> remove some parts . Because the other way around I would have to tap 
> into R288,R386 to get the clean Square to work.
>
>
>>> Also if I forget about R391,R392,C119,R390 and just jumper the whole 
>>> thing straight from the INT Clock Output then it would work too.
>>
>> These do a similar function to C4, D2 and R11 in Yves' circuit. I 
>> would just use the original ARP parts and save the bother of 
>> replacing this section.
>
> What if I go straight from R391(ARP) into Yves ( pin12 of U2d's 
> Non-Inverting ) would that resolve my issue?

That is what I would try. I'm by no means the most knowledgable person 
on this list, so if someone else knows better please correct me!
Yves module does work with a square wave but this is converted to a 
trigger by C4, D2, R11 and U2d. You could also try bypassing R391 and 
take your trigger signal from the junction of C119 and R392.

James


From czvekan at gmail.com  Thu May 29 19:00:17 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 19:00:17 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <04382590-2C0A-43BC-905D-008546BE15A0@gmail.com>
References: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com><87441170805281235s85b82f5wcf8ddebfef509d93@mail.gmail.com>	<F22D8809-2CE4-4FCE-AC3C-302021D41F0E@gmail.com>	<4952F633F6959741BCD5E10D7842E20107C8B8BB@epbsa003.budapest.epam.com>
	<D7933524-9085-42A6-BEAF-DBC0F8D1A524@gmail.com>
	<483EC928.3010203@4thharmonic.com>
	<04382590-2C0A-43BC-905D-008546BE15A0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0D80234-EA89-47FA-8421-433FCE3DB6F3@gmail.com>

Is this maybe what I need ... the schematic  to the right ?

http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/

Csaba


On May 29, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Csaba Zvekan wrote:

> Thanks James,
>
> Yes sometimes I a have a hard time expressing myself properly,I'm  
> sorry for that .So, pretty much everything works as a direct  
> replacement PIN to PIN as you mentioned below except :
>
>> 2) Connect R391 (47k) of S/H clock input to pin 12 of Yves Usson's  
>> S/H.
>
> this is not working since Yves S/H module I believe expects as  
> Square Wave signal (then it works) and the ARP is generating that  
> weird trigger signal nobody can use but ARP. I even have tried the  
> other way around triggering my Modular DIY synth's S/H (same module)  
> from the ARP it won't budge.Is there a little circuitry that I could  
> put in front of Yves circuitry to accept the ARP trigger signal .Or  
> maybe remove some parts  . Because the other  way around I would  
> have to tap into R288,R386 to get the clean Square to work.
>
>
>>> Also if I forget about R391,R392,C119,R390 and just jumper the  
>>> whole thing straight from the INT Clock Output then it would work  
>>> too.
>>
>> These do a similar function to C4, D2 and R11 in Yves' circuit. I  
>> would just use the original ARP parts and save the bother of  
>> replacing this section.
>
> What if I go straight from R391(ARP)  into Yves ( pin12 of U2d's Non- 
> Inverting ) would that resolve my issue?
>
> Csaba
>
> On May 29, 2008, at 5:18 PM, James Dunn wrote:
>
>> If I understand you correctly and you just want to replace the 4015  
>> S/H module with Yves Usson's circuit, I think I would try the  
>> following:
>>
>> 1) Connect wiper of S/H level pot R319 (100k lin) to R10 of Yves  
>> Usson's S/H.
>> 2) Connect R391 (47k) of S/H clock input to pin 12 of Yves Usson's  
>> S/H.
>> 3) Connect R393 (1k) of S/H output to pin 7 (U2b) of Yves Usson's S/ 
>> H OR pin 8 (U2c) if using the slew rate function.
>>
>>> 2. The Circuit gets a nice Square wave. That ARP pulse stuff just  
>>> won't work. I have no Idea why they changed the clock from Square  
>>> to _|_ this ??
>>
>> The transistor in the ARP S/H circuit needs to be turned on for a  
>> split second to sample the input voltage, so C119 reduces a gate  
>> signal to a trigger signal.
>>>
>>> Anyhow if I'd remove R321 and C86 from the Noise Source / S/H  
>>> Input it will probably work. But then what effect would the 100K S/ 
>>> H Input Slider have ? HMM...
>> As mentioned above, I would just leave them be and you can use R319  
>> as a level control for the attenuation of the input signal (ie noise)
>>>
>>> Also if I forget about R391,R392,C119,R390 and just jumper the  
>>> whole thing straight from the INT Clock Output then it would work  
>>> too.
>>
>> These do a similar function to C4, D2 and R11 in Yves' circuit. I  
>> would just use the original ARP parts and save the bother of  
>> replacing this section.
>>>
>>> What is the deal with that "ELECTRONIC SWITCH" I never understood  
>>> what it 's supposed to do. With the A, B, C Outputs? Can somebody  
>>> explain that part of my synth?
>> It's a bidirectional switch for audio or control voltages and  
>> switches one input to 2 alternate outputs, or two outputs to 2  
>> alternate inputs according to the S/H master clock rate.
>>
>> James
>
> **************
> http://www.csabazvekan.com
> music stuff
> http://www.csaba.ch
> electronic stuff
> http://www.synthmaniac.com
> synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

**************
http://www.csabazvekan.com
music stuff
http://www.csaba.ch
electronic stuff
http://www.synthmaniac.com
synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)







From czvekan at gmail.com  Thu May 29 19:53:08 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 19:53:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Substitute for IMF-3958 ARP 4015 S/H SubModule
In-Reply-To: <483EDEE1.6020104@4thharmonic.com>
References: <660935A2-F040-430A-A730-8520775B65B7@gmail.com><87441170805281235s85b82f5wcf8ddebfef509d93@mail.gmail.com>	<F22D8809-2CE4-4FCE-AC3C-302021D41F0E@gmail.com>	<4952F633F6959741BCD5E10D7842E20107C8B8BB@epbsa003.budapest.epam.com>	<D7933524-9085-42A6-BEAF-DBC0F8D1A524@gmail.com>	<483EC928.3010203@4thharmonic.com>
	<04382590-2C0A-43BC-905D-008546BE15A0@gmail.com>
	<483EDEE1.6020104@4thharmonic.com>
Message-ID: <EE2ED886-EBBA-4C16-832B-04AE1BC2722D@gmail.com>

Unfortunately going straight to the PIN 12 didn't work either nor in  
the S/H Input. I also build the http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/  
trigger to 15V converter and tried both inputs but was  unsuccessful .  
I needs a square signal.

Csaba

On May 29, 2008, at 6:50 PM, James Dunn wrote:

>
>> So, pretty much everything works as a direct replacement PIN to PIN  
>> as you mentioned below except :
>>
>>> 2) Connect R391 (47k) of S/H clock input to pin 12 of Yves Usson's  
>>> S/H.
>>
>> this is not working since Yves S/H module I believe expects as  
>> Square Wave signal (then it works) and the ARP is generating that  
>> weird trigger signal nobody can use but ARP. I even have tried the  
>> other way around triggering my Modular DIY synth's S/H (same  
>> module) from the ARP it won't budge.Is there a little circuitry  
>> that I could put in front of Yves circuitry to accept the ARP  
>> trigger signal .Or maybe remove some parts . Because the other way  
>> around I would have to tap into R288,R386 to get the clean Square  
>> to work.
>>
>>
>>>> Also if I forget about R391,R392,C119,R390 and just jumper the  
>>>> whole thing straight from the INT Clock Output then it would work  
>>>> too.
>>>
>>> These do a similar function to C4, D2 and R11 in Yves' circuit. I  
>>> would just use the original ARP parts and save the bother of  
>>> replacing this section.
>>
>> What if I go straight from R391(ARP) into Yves ( pin12 of U2d's Non- 
>> Inverting ) would that resolve my issue?
>
> That is what I would try. I'm by no means the most knowledgable  
> person on this list, so if someone else knows better please correct  
> me!
> Yves module does work with a square wave but this is converted to a  
> trigger by C4, D2, R11 and U2d. You could also try bypassing R391  
> and take your trigger signal from the junction of C119 and R392.
>
> James
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy





From julian at port23.co.uk  Thu May 29 20:33:28 2008
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 19:33:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to worry?
	(Products)
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>
Message-ID: <003901c8c1ba$819a25a0$0301a8c0@legba>

Right,

So ive been convinced now that its probably a good idea to pay attention to problems with static...

This -

http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Storage-Packing-Equipment/Storage-Cabinets/ESD-safe-storage-cabinets/60601/kw/

is actually what got me onto the subject (as i was thinking of emptying the bags of ICs into one of the "standard issue" non ESD 
safe cabinates...

Theyre silly money, i know, but, i guess, not close to as much as the ICs themselves are worth, and, more to the point, not as much 
as my time is worth putting dud chips into repairs, and going arround in circles because of it...

I was wondering if the cabinates should specifically be earthed themselves, but the talk of farraday cadges has explained that, 
whilst probably better earthing them, its not essential (it would be difficult for me to earth them in my situation)

Not that ill buy one tommorow, but im guessing noone objects? ; )

(and, yeah, i know itlld be cheaper to just use bags, but when i have to search each time, re-order the duplicates, etc.etc. - in 
short i just want things organised!)

Julian



-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 10299 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Thu May 29 23:09:13 2008
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:09:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to worry?
	(Products)
In-Reply-To: <003901c8c1ba$819a25a0$0301a8c0@legba>
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>
	<003901c8c1ba$819a25a0$0301a8c0@legba>
Message-ID: <483F1B79.80603@burnit.co.uk>

I've always kept my ICs in normal cheap plastic drawers and never had a 
problem.  True I do usually keep them pushed into black antistatic foam 
cut to fit the drawers (especially more expensive ICs and anyway it 
helps make finding the right IC easier).  Some of the cheaper ICs are 
just chucked in the drawers loose and even with these I've never had a 
problem .. maybe I've just been lucky?  I do make a point of touching 
earth to ground myself before handling ICs.

Seb


Julian wrote:
> Right,
>
> So ive been convinced now that its probably a good idea to pay attention to problems with static...
>
> This -
>
> http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Storage-Packing-Equipment/Storage-Cabinets/ESD-safe-storage-cabinets/60601/kw/
>
> is actually what got me onto the subject (as i was thinking of emptying the bags of ICs into one of the "standard issue" non ESD 
> safe cabinates...
>
> Theyre silly money, i know, but, i guess, not close to as much as the ICs themselves are worth, and, more to the point, not as much 
> as my time is worth putting dud chips into repairs, and going arround in circles because of it...
>
> I was wondering if the cabinates should specifically be earthed themselves, but the talk of farraday cadges has explained that, 
> whilst probably better earthing them, its not essential (it would be difficult for me to earth them in my situation)
>
> Not that ill buy one tommorow, but im guessing noone objects? ; )
>
> (and, yeah, i know itlld be cheaper to just use bags, but when i have to search each time, re-order the duplicates, etc.etc. - in 
> short i just want things organised!)
>
> Julian
>
>
>
>   




From dlmanley at sonic.net  Thu May 29 23:36:25 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 14:36:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to worry?
	(Products)
In-Reply-To: <483F1B79.80603@burnit.co.uk>
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>	<003901c8c1ba$819a25a0$0301a8c0@legba>
	<483F1B79.80603@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <483F21D9.5030606@sonic.net>

Static is much more of an issue in dry climates, or in heated but poorly 
humidified locations.  For some people their climate may be a bigger 
factor in why they've never had a problem, than their storage/handling 
techniques.

-Dave



From daugard at sprintmail.com  Fri May 30 01:08:09 2008
From: daugard at sprintmail.com (Tim Daugard)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 18:08:09 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to
	worry?(Products)
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>	<003901c8c1ba$819a25a0$0301a8c0@legba><483F1B79.80603@burnit.co.uk>
	<483F21D9.5030606@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c8c1e0$ddb7e270$8f1a9d04@YOURFC2F95F1ED>


> Static is much more of an issue in dry climates, or in heated but poorly
> humidified locations.  For some people their climate may be a bigger 
> factor

You mean the 100/100 workshop is good for something? That's 100 Deg F 100 % 
humidity. At least the lizards living in my workshop like it. Now, 
corroision is a different matter.

Tim Daugard
Who still hasn't completely finished setting up my new computer. 



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Fri May 30 01:30:05 2008
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 16:30:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much
	to	worry?(Products)
In-Reply-To: <000a01c8c1e0$ddb7e270$8f1a9d04@YOURFC2F95F1ED>
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>	<003901c8c1ba$819a25a0$0301a8c0@legba><483F1B79.80603@burnit.co.uk>	<483F21D9.5030606@sonic.net>
	<000a01c8c1e0$ddb7e270$8f1a9d04@YOURFC2F95F1ED>
Message-ID: <483F3C7D.8010100@sonic.net>

Tim Daugard wrote:
> 
>> Static is much more of an issue in dry climates, or in heated but poorly
>> humidified locations.  For some people their climate may be a bigger 
>> factor
> 
> You mean the 100/100 workshop is good for something? That's 100 Deg F 
> 100 % humidity. At least the lizards living in my workshop like it. Now, 
> corroision is a different matter.

Yeah, well...what's that about no free lunch?  In climates that have 
100/100 you may have trouble with a much bigger form of static electricity!

-Dave (not out flying a kite) Manley



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Fri May 30 01:38:04 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 17:38:04 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] JUNO 106 parts faders! anything!  LOL
In-Reply-To: <052920081529.6685.483ECBC900008B6500001A1D22165384969C909D0A9C060B@comcast.net>
References: <052920081529.6685.483ECBC900008B6500001A1D22165384969C909D0A9C060B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <483F3E5C.40603@imt.net>

I have a scrap juno.  For some reason mail isn't going to the address I 
reply to on this. -Bob

djservs at comcast.net wrote:

>HI all!
>i am restoring a JUNO 106 i got off GEARSLUTZ.....
>i need a juno for parts, voices or not, or does someone know where to get the faders for the juno (i think there are 20 total, including the pitch bend parts)....
>i though someone sold them on ebay, chipforbrains?
>maybe a trade of parts?
>i have extra key octaves, ends, and caps/switches, etc....
>
>anyway, anyone need to trade or sell/buy i am looking, i want this overhauled and working by the end of summer
>what leds do i use if i want to replace them all with white or UV?  where can i get the segment LED in UV?
>as shown here
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310054198293&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=021
>i got some wood sides so it will look sweet once completed!  8^p
>cheers!
>nate
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From groovyshaman at snet.net  Fri May 30 04:31:50 2008
From: groovyshaman at snet.net (groovyshaman)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:31:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much
	to	worry?(Products)
In-Reply-To: <000a01c8c1e0$ddb7e270$8f1a9d04@YOURFC2F95F1ED>
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>	<003901c8c1ba$819a25a0$0301a8c0@legba><483F1B79.80603@burnit.co.uk>	<483F21D9.5030606@sonic.net>
	<000a01c8c1e0$ddb7e270$8f1a9d04@YOURFC2F95F1ED>
Message-ID: <483F6716.7090008@snet.net>

Good luck with storing RHOS parts!

Tim Daugard wrote:
> 
> You mean the 100/100 workshop is good for something? That's 100 Deg F 100 % 
> humidity. At least the lizards living in my workshop like it. Now, 
> corroision is a different matter.
> 
> Tim Daugard
> Who still hasn't completely finished setting up my new computer. 



From Brett.Maddaford at mailus.com.au  Fri May 30 05:17:03 2008
From: Brett.Maddaford at mailus.com.au (Brett Maddaford)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 13:17:03 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help
Message-ID: <C802AE4E7C88FA4EB8803059B997200D0DA69734@CARLEMAIL01>

Hi Sean

The snvoice discussion on electro-forums is where I originally got it from.
If I find it I'll forward it but the forum may still have it.

Cheers
B

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Sean Ellis
Sent: Saturday, 17 May 2008 23:33 
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] 3 position switch help

I once found a simple wiring circuit to convert a DP3T on/off/on switch into

a 1P3T on/on/on switch but I cant find it anymore. Can anyone help out? 
Google is not helping much :( 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error
please delete the e-mail & notify the system manager.
We reserve the right to scan all e-mail traffic for restricted content
and to monitor all e-mail traffic in general.
The views and opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender 
and do not necessarily reflect the views of the organisation
by whom they are employed, except where the sender expressly
and with authority states them to be so.
This footnote also confirms that this email message
has been checked for the presence of computer viruses and script.
We believe but do not warrant that this e-mail is free from viruses.
Responsibility for virus checking rests entirely with the recipient.
5 at 356
**********************************************************************



From jhaible at debitel.net  Fri May 30 10:05:35 2008
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:05:35 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Dimen sion D ?
Message-ID: <000d01c8c22b$f1677290$0400a8c0@jhsilent>

Hi,

if anybody is interested in a PCB for diy-ing an emulation of that unique 
chorus, please send me an email.

JH. 



From tu at alphalink.com.au  Fri May 30 10:51:03 2008
From: tu at alphalink.com.au (Tristan)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 18:51:03 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much to
	worry?
In-Reply-To: <7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D85BEBA0@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>
References: <1864115231.20080529111036@alphalink.com.au>
	<7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D85BEBA0@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>
Message-ID: <4210474326.20080530185103@alphalink.com.au>

Hello Alan,

You are right, there is also the faraday effect. I guess I was talking
about the dissipative type of materials. I did a bit of googling and
there certainly seems to be a variety of approaches to static control.
The important thing is to use antistatic materials and procedures if
you want to avoid damaging your ICs. Some people may not care about
it, but that is their choice.

-- 
Best regards,
Tristan                            mailto:tu at alphalink.com.au

Thursday, May 29, 2008, 11:05:05 PM, you wrote:

NA> I have a big problem with this explanation, even after inserting the
NA> supplied correction.

NA> An antistatic bag may measure a few hundred kOhms from corner to corner,
NA> I do not believe that this is enough to slow down any charge front, and
NA> if it did, it would result in the very thing you are trying to avoid -
NA> pins at significantly different voltages.
NA> As I understand it, the packaging attempts to provide some form of
NA> Faraday cage around the device; no matter what static voltage is
NA> applied, all the pins need to be maintained at the same potential, even
NA> if that is 1000's of volts above ground. Aluminium foil would be ideal
NA> IF you could guarantee a connection to every pin.

NA> ~~~Snip~~
NA> The materials used in antistatic bags and foam etc are conductive but
NA> have a relatively low conductivity. If you touch the antistatic
NA> material when you are statically charged the charge spreads through
NA> the material slowly, thus only producing a small local differential
NA> between pins on ICs.
NA> ~~Snip~~
NA> It is the high voltages typically involved in static discharge, combined
NA> with a path of HIGH conductivity, that leads to high currents between
NA> the IC pins and damage to the circuit inside.
NA> ~~Snip~~

NA> _____________________________________________________________________
NA> The information contained in or attached to this email is
NA> intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it
NA> is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person
NA> responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you
NA> are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or
NA> retain this message or any part of it. It may contain
NA> information which is confidential and/or covered by legal
NA> professional or other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar
NA> effect in jurisdictions outside England and Wales).
NA> The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views
NA> of Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or
NA> employees make no representation or accept any liability for its
NA> accuracy or completeness unless expressly stated to the
NA> contrary.

NA> Centrica plc

NA> Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD

NA> Registered in England and Wales No 3033654








From czvekan at gmail.com  Fri May 30 11:17:08 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 11:17:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ARP Trigger signal 
Message-ID: <8E4058FC-DCDD-4001-86C4-B1B8CFE09209@gmail.com>

Hi Everybody,

I woke up this morning with a thought that maybe my problem is not the  
actual S/H submodule rather than an invalid trigger signal.
Since it's not even 5 volt and goes into a negative state when the  
curve drops.This makes me suspect my circuitry around  
R391,R392,C119,R390 maybe faulty. Now I know that those are just  
Resistors and Capacitors and maybe OK but still . Can somebody  
validate my signals I measured here .

http://www.csaba.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=30

especially the part from R391 ? Is that a correct trigger signal ?


Thanks

Csaba




From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri May 30 11:23:37 2008
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 19:23:37 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how much
	toworry?
In-Reply-To: <4210474326.20080530185103@alphalink.com.au>
Message-ID: <00ed01c8c236$d7aa3da0$8501a8c0@ice9>

I keep any chips that I buy new, in their original packaging.

I don't have many chips that aren't in the original packaging, but those
that I do have, I put in the black antistatic foam that you can buy from
anyone.

It is a bad mistake to put a chip back into the original packaging after
taking it out for any reason. Because, what if something has happened to it
while it was out? Nothing worse than prototyping with a faulty chip.
Enormous waste of time, hopeless confusion, unhappiness etc.
Same as putting a resistor back in the tray it came from. Easy to put a 1K
in a 10K drawer & ruin a day sometime in the future.

Some people keep tubes that they have bought chips in & put all their
'second hand' and salvaged chips in those. Nothing wrong with that, of
course.

Fortunately I'm in an unheated house in Melbourne Victoria & even with the
drought, it's humid enough here not to have a problem.

paul perry Melbourne Australia




From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Fri May 30 13:58:54 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 04:58:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Vocal pitch correction
Message-ID: <20080530115854.GM76005@moo.sysabend.org>

Can anyone recommend a vocal pitch correction box?  Specifically, I'm
looking for one with issues, lag, etc.  All analog would be awesome if only
because that would have to sound awful, urm, I mean awesome.  Maybe even
suggestions on how to create an effect like this some other way.

Specifically, I want to take vocals and then with some lag, intentionally
adjust or misadjust them.

Thanks.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From loscha at gmail.com  Fri May 30 16:25:26 2008
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 00:25:26 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Archive of [photocopied] technical documents I no longer
	require
Message-ID: <17035a3d0805300725i64c3bf61x43b24424b7fa0c4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys and ladies out there.....

I'm getting rid of stuff!! Uncommon on this list, but, hey!

I've got a few folders here of stuff. They're quite thick (about an
inch each), so, international postage will be a bit of a sting, so,
I'd prefer it if someone was going to do local pickup from Melbourne
(Australia) -- either Footscray where I live, or on the CDB during the
week where I work

Folder One: Orange Contains good quality Photocopies of the following
Prophet 5, 10, T8 and Sequencer Data.
Prophet 5 schematics, theory. (spiral bound)
Prophet Rev 3.3 Update Addendum.
"Polyphonic Sequencer" Section.
Prophet T-8 Preliminary Service Data (Manual TN1008-0), August 1983.
CEM3360 Application Notes - looks like it was analog typed, with hand
drawn schematics.
T-8 Schematics.
Prophet 10 schematics (with extra voice card data for P5)

Folder Two: Brown; again, good quality photocopies.
Oberheim DM/X stuff.
Midi retrofit instructions, designs, schematics, photocopied owners manuals.
Handwritten notes on added other functions to digital section, and DIY
Midi interface

Various other things
Roland MRC-300 Manuals (good copies, have been spiral bound)
Ensoniq EPS Owners & Advanced Musicians Manuals & SCSI implementation

Pro One Technical/Service Manual - Good photocopy, spiral
bound.w/Loose schematics.

Please contact me if you want any of this stuff!!!!! I want it to go
to someone who will enjoy it and cherish it. It's taking up space
here, and I want to dispose of it.

The list has been good to me, so, you're free to come to my house and
take any or all of it, in trade for whatever you want to trade.
Australia Wide people, it won't all fit into a 3kg Austrlia post pack,
I'd have to pack and weigh it, you'd be looking at about $20 for the
lot. Or Cheaper if you only wanted bits of it.


 I will email the list when it's been snapped up, if it is.
Still up for grabs; Siel Keyboard action, Korg Polysix Action (and
some parts, like the key scanner CPU is intact), and a Baleani organ
with a drum machine in it that sorta works, but has 2 manuals of keys
that you can reuse.


From daugard at sprintmail.com  Fri May 30 16:36:11 2008
From: daugard at sprintmail.com (Tim Daugard)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 09:36:11 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Storing ICs (and static sensitivity) - how
	muchto	worry?(Products)
References: <001801c8c120$2eaf1700$0301a8c0@legba>	<003901c8c1ba$819a25a0$0301a8c0@legba><483F1B79.80603@burnit.co.uk>	<483F21D9.5030606@sonic.net><000a01c8c1e0$ddb7e270$8f1a9d04@YOURFC2F95F1ED>
	<483F3C7D.8010100@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c8c268$4bf16e00$e91d9d04@YOURFC2F95F1ED>


From: "Dave Manley" <dlmanley at sonic.net>

>> You mean the 100/100 workshop is good for something? That's 100 Deg F 100 
>> % humidity.

> Yeah, well...what's that about no free lunch?  In climates that have 
> 100/100 you may have trouble with a much bigger form of static 
> electricity!

I worked with a gov. contractor that brought some new equipment to our site 
for testing. The were supposed to prove time available and reliability in 
the normal work envirionment. The 90 day test started finally in May after 
getting all the bugs out of the system. By June they were in serious 
trouble. They ran from 7 AM to 11 PM in two shifts and then shut down to 
install any required software / hardware changes. What they neglected to 
check was the weather reports. By the first week of June the civilian site 
manager asked me if the number of outages they had was odd. I told them no, 
and it was going to get worse.

In our neck of the woods use spend June, July, and sometimes August shutting 
everything electronic down for lightning almost everyday at 3 PM and go back 
to work about 5 or 6 PM. Of course if it takes an hour + to get back to 
work, then you are losing 3 - 4 hours out of  every 14 hour equipment day.

They didn't belive me, so I had the weather people give me the numbers. It 
turned out that we actually had below average storms that may.

Tim Daugard
(Trying to turn a Sillabs toolstick into music parts (MIDI to CV, Audio 
Delay, Audio Echo, Etc.) It's a $10 US flash memory board with ADC, DAC 
capability. Add a header and its ready to go.) 



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Fri May 30 23:15:58 2008
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:15:58 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Archive of [photocopied] technical documents I no longer
	require
In-Reply-To: <17035a3d0805300725i64c3bf61x43b24424b7fa0c4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17035a3d0805300725i64c3bf61x43b24424b7fa0c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080530211558.GO76005@moo.sysabend.org>

I would be very interesting in getting, well, any or all of this to scan for
emusic-diy.org.



On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 12:25:26AM +1000, Loscha wrote:
> Hi guys and ladies out there.....
> 
> I'm getting rid of stuff!! Uncommon on this list, but, hey!
> 
> I've got a few folders here of stuff. They're quite thick (about an
> inch each), so, international postage will be a bit of a sting, so,
> I'd prefer it if someone was going to do local pickup from Melbourne
> (Australia) -- either Footscray where I live, or on the CDB during the
> week where I work
> 
> Folder One: Orange Contains good quality Photocopies of the following
> Prophet 5, 10, T8 and Sequencer Data.
> Prophet 5 schematics, theory. (spiral bound)
> Prophet Rev 3.3 Update Addendum.
> "Polyphonic Sequencer" Section.
> Prophet T-8 Preliminary Service Data (Manual TN1008-0), August 1983.
> CEM3360 Application Notes - looks like it was analog typed, with hand
> drawn schematics.
> T-8 Schematics.
> Prophet 10 schematics (with extra voice card data for P5)
> 
> Folder Two: Brown; again, good quality photocopies.
> Oberheim DM/X stuff.
> Midi retrofit instructions, designs, schematics, photocopied owners manuals.
> Handwritten notes on added other functions to digital section, and DIY
> Midi interface
> 
> Various other things
> Roland MRC-300 Manuals (good copies, have been spiral bound)
> Ensoniq EPS Owners & Advanced Musicians Manuals & SCSI implementation
> 
> Pro One Technical/Service Manual - Good photocopy, spiral
> bound.w/Loose schematics.
> 
> Please contact me if you want any of this stuff!!!!! I want it to go
> to someone who will enjoy it and cherish it. It's taking up space
> here, and I want to dispose of it.
> 
> The list has been good to me, so, you're free to come to my house and
> take any or all of it, in trade for whatever you want to trade.
> Australia Wide people, it won't all fit into a 3kg Austrlia post pack,
> I'd have to pack and weigh it, you'd be looking at about $20 for the
> lot. Or Cheaper if you only wanted bits of it.
> 
> 
>  I will email the list when it's been snapped up, if it is.
> Still up for grabs; Siel Keyboard action, Korg Polysix Action (and
> some parts, like the key scanner CPU is intact), and a Baleani organ
> with a drum machine in it that sorta works, but has 2 manuals of keys
> that you can reuse.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From loscha at gmail.com  Sat May 31 01:48:30 2008
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 09:48:30 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Archive of [photocopied] technical documents I no longer
	require
In-Reply-To: <20080530211558.GO76005@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <17035a3d0805300725i64c3bf61x43b24424b7fa0c4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080530211558.GO76005@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0805301648g8ef1af7n3b9986cb810e6507@mail.gmail.com>

I meant to clarify for the list earlier.
I'll be scanning them all in (pulling them out of the comb bindings
and undoing staples)
and running them through the multi sheet feeder at work in the next
few business days.
I'll post links here, and send them through to Matrixsynth

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 7:15 AM, Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
> I would be very interesting in getting, well, any or all of this to scan for
> emusic-diy.org.
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 12:25:26AM +1000, Loscha wrote:
>> Hi guys and ladies out there.....
>>
>> I'm getting rid of stuff!! Uncommon on this list, but, hey!
>>
>> I've got a few folders here of stuff. They're quite thick (about an
>> inch each), so, international postage will be a bit of a sting, so,
>> I'd prefer it if someone was going to do local pickup from Melbourne
>> (Australia) -- either Footscray where I live, or on the CDB during the
>> week where I work
>>
>> Folder One: Orange Contains good quality Photocopies of the following
>> Prophet 5, 10, T8 and Sequencer Data.
>> Prophet 5 schematics, theory. (spiral bound)
>> Prophet Rev 3.3 Update Addendum.
>> "Polyphonic Sequencer" Section.
>> Prophet T-8 Preliminary Service Data (Manual TN1008-0), August 1983.
>> CEM3360 Application Notes - looks like it was analog typed, with hand
>> drawn schematics.
>> T-8 Schematics.
>> Prophet 10 schematics (with extra voice card data for P5)
>>
>> Folder Two: Brown; again, good quality photocopies.
>> Oberheim DM/X stuff.
>> Midi retrofit instructions, designs, schematics, photocopied owners manuals.
>> Handwritten notes on added other functions to digital section, and DIY
>> Midi interface
>>
>> Various other things
>> Roland MRC-300 Manuals (good copies, have been spiral bound)
>> Ensoniq EPS Owners & Advanced Musicians Manuals & SCSI implementation
>>
>> Pro One Technical/Service Manual - Good photocopy, spiral
>> bound.w/Loose schematics.
>>
>> Please contact me if you want any of this stuff!!!!! I want it to go
>> to someone who will enjoy it and cherish it. It's taking up space
>> here, and I want to dispose of it.
>>
>> The list has been good to me, so, you're free to come to my house and
>> take any or all of it, in trade for whatever you want to trade.
>> Australia Wide people, it won't all fit into a 3kg Austrlia post pack,
>> I'd have to pack and weigh it, you'd be looking at about $20 for the
>> lot. Or Cheaper if you only wanted bits of it.
>>
>>
>>  I will email the list when it's been snapped up, if it is.
>> Still up for grabs; Siel Keyboard action, Korg Polysix Action (and
>> some parts, like the key scanner CPU is intact), and a Baleani organ
>> with a drum machine in it that sorta works, but has 2 manuals of keys
>> that you can reuse.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> --
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>  - SynthGeek        -
>  - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>  - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>  --------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
www.loscha.com


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sat May 31 02:18:42 2008
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 18:18:42 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Designator on zener  362?
Message-ID: <48409962.7000009@imt.net>

That's what it looks like. I'm thinking there was a 3.6 volt value 
but...that doesn't seem likely as I draw out the circuit.  It's fried 
and so was the resistor in series; someting that certainly would happen 
I'd think if it were that. It's for an expensive charger for someone but 
just thought someone in here might recognize that style of designation.  
Thanks guys.  Hitachi is no help.  And not finding anything googling.

The circuit has current going through the zener to a 100ohm resistor to 
ground, with that point of connection feeding another 100ohm to an opto 
isolator led.

So if the charger is outputting 14V it would have like 9V at least 
across the resistor which would fry it's little 1/4W essence very 
quickly.  .8W at that voltage of course.  And the output says 7.x to 14V 
or something like that on it.   From what I drew out I think that 
circuit is designed to turn on the opto which controls an additional 
coil on the primary...when it detects that the battery being hooked up 
has more than 8V on it or whatever.  -Bob


From jmahoney at gate.net  Sat May 31 05:54:49 2008
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 23:54:49 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Vocal pitch correction
In-Reply-To: <20080530115854.GM76005@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20080530115854.GM76005@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <200805310353.m4V3rnxX024242@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

At 07:58 AM 5/30/2008, Tom Arnold wrote:

>Can anyone recommend a vocal pitch correction box?  Specifically, I'm
>looking for one with issues, lag, etc.  All analog would be awesome if only
>because that would have to sound awful, urm, I mean awesome.  Maybe even
>suggestions on how to create an effect like this some other way.
>
>Specifically, I want to take vocals and then with some lag, intentionally
>adjust or misadjust them.
>
>Thanks.

Lag is simple with any box -- just insert a delay line. :-)

Analog pitch correction, you say? What a concept. Seems like it'd be 
something like this:

1) input signal --> pitch-to-voltage converter --> scale quantizer

2) Compute the pitch correction CV (PCCV) by subtracting the 
quantized pitch CV from the unquantized pitch CV (or vice versa)

3) Use the PCCV to modulate a frequency shifter. (This will cause all 
kinds of distortion! And, it will virtually always be shifting by at 
least a small amount. It should really be a pitch shifter, but I 
don't know of an analog pitch shifter.)

Just a concept.

John


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1475 - Release Date: 5/30/2008 2:53 PM




From mnaef at navisto.ch  Sat May 31 11:15:58 2008
From: mnaef at navisto.ch (Martin Naef)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 10:15:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Vocal pitch correction
In-Reply-To: <20080530115854.GM76005@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20080530115854.GM76005@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <4841174E.6020400@navisto.ch>

Tom Arnold wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a vocal pitch correction box?  Specifically, I'm
> looking for one with issues, lag, etc.  All analog would be awesome if only
> because that would have to sound awful, urm, I mean awesome.  Maybe even
> suggestions on how to create an effect like this some other way.
> 
> Specifically, I want to take vocals and then with some lag, intentionally
> adjust or misadjust them.

If you want something in an external box, there's a variety of options
from TC Helicon. I use a Voice One which can exactly do what you
describe above: Delay a voice and pitch and shape it to generate a
second line that can go from "nice and clean" to downright ugly,
robotic, and wrong... There's nothing analog behind the ADC/DAC stages,
though, so it might not appeal to purists here... ;-)

Bye
Martin



From czvekan at gmail.com  Sat May 31 19:39:59 2008
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 19:39:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ARP 2600 Grey meanie 100K A/B sliders plus plastic caps
	needed
In-Reply-To: <920502.48191.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <920502.48191.qm@web82704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8B10E8F9-CFDB-44F3-A2EF-44396F8B1D2C@gmail.com>

Paul,

Ohh yeah

this guy is very nice and has them all .He is the UK.
Check him out.

http://synthrestore.co.uk/products.htm

Csaba

On May 31, 2008, at 7:28 PM, paul brooks wrote:

> Did you get any responses about this off the list?
> I've been looking for the sliders as well, so many of
> mine are beyond cleaning...
>
> So far, only Synthfool offers them - but they are rare
> from him, and are only cleaned old sliders.
>
> good luck,
>
> paul brooks
>
>
> --- Csaba Zvekan <czvekan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> In order to fully restore my ARP 2600 Grey Meanie .
>> I would need a few
>> 100K sliders and the plastic caps are missing on
>> some as well. Anybody
>> has a good connection for those ?
>>
>>
>> Csaba
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>

**************
http://www.csabazvekan.com
music stuff
http://www.csaba.ch
electronic stuff
http://www.synthmaniac.com
synthesizer stuff (not fully set up yet)







