From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Sun Mar  1 01:40:30 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:40:30 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Knobs
In-Reply-To: <118585.39652.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KFS007UYXVJR2@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Kyle,

The skirt is about 17/16" diameter, and the knurled bit is about 15/16"
diameter (eyeballing off of a ruler).  The aluminum circular insert is about
5/8" diameter, and the knob is about 5/8" high.

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Kyle Stephens
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:41 AM
> To: Synth-DIY
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Knobs
> 
> 
> Ooh, I forgot about Small Bear. David, what are the dimensions (say, skirt
> width and height) of the large knobs? I've some Boss pedals with the small
> knobs already, so I know how big those are.
> 
> And Bruce - you interested in some of these?
> 
> Small: http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=105
> 
> Large: http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=106
> 
> 
> _Kyle
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 2/28/09, David G. Dixon <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
> 
> > From: David G. Dixon <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca>
> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] Knobs
> > To: "'Bruce Duncan'" <modcan at sympatico.ca>, Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 12:00 AM
> > Not to belabor the point, but if you're not fixed on one
> > exact knob, then
> > you should check out Small Bear Electronics in Brooklyn,
> > NY.  I just bought
> > a pile of pretty nice knobs from there, and they were very
> > inexpensive
> > ($0.50 for "Small BOSS style" and $0.65 for
> > "Large BOSS style" -- these are
> > very similar to the other black knobs with circular
> > aluminum inserts and
> > white pointer stripes used by some of the modular builders,
> > if slightly more
> > angular on the "shoulder").  I'm very
> > satisfied with my purchase, which came
> > quickly, beautifully packed to boot.
> >
> > David G. Dixon
> > Professor
> > Department of Materials Engineering
> > University of British Columbia
> > 309-6350 Stores Road
> > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> > Canada
> >
> > Tel 1-604-822-3679
> > Fax 1-604-822-3619
> >
> > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> >
> > The information in this email and in any attachments is
> > confidential and
> > intended solely for the attention and use of the named
> > addressee(s).  It
> > must not be disclosed to any person without the
> > writer's authority.  If you
> > are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for
> > delivering it to
> > the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must
> > not disclose,
> > copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > [mailto:synth-diy-
> > > bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Bruce Duncan
> > > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:00 PM
> > > To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Knobs
> > >
> > > At 10:07 PM 27/02/2009, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >I'd be game for this, but I'm more a fan
> > of the PKES style knobs.
> > > >
> > >
> > >http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/746286-switch-knob-fluted-855-w-skirt-
> > > pkes70b1-4.html
> > > >
> > > >Is there room for that option, or am I on my own?
> > I wanted to
> > > >propose my own group buy for that style, and seen
> > what came of it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On a tangent, anyone know why are knobs so darn
> > pricey? Even in bulk
> > > >they can be as much as the pots they're
> > attached to :P. Just a
> > > >necessity they can charge premium for?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >I have to go with the PKA series so you may not be
> > on your own but I
> > > >can't help on this.
> > >
> > > Not sure why knobs are so pricey but a lot of it has
> > to do with the
> > > number of participants involved in getting them to
> > market and they
> > > all want a cut.
> > >
> > > Asian Factory makes knobs while paying workers $0.06
> > an hour
> > > Total cost for knob is next to nothing.
> > > Factory owner probably drives a Mercedes.
> > > Sells to US distributor like Tyco for $.030 each
> > >
> > > Tyco sells to Distributor like Mouser for probably
> > $1.00 each
> > >
> > > Mouser sells for $2.50-4.00 depending on knob
> > >
> > > These are just rough estimates but probably not far
> > off.
> > >
> > > I saw a documentary recently that showed a jean
> > factory in China.
> > > Total cost for one pair of jeans was $1.
> > > This company made jeans for Levi which are what? $70 a
> > pair in Canada
> > >
> > > Bruce
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >_Kyle
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- On Fri, 2/27/09, Bruce Duncan
> > <modcan at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Bruce Duncan
> > <modcan at sympatico.ca>
> > > > > Subject: [sdiy] Knobs
> > > > > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > > > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 1:15 PM
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am considering a large scale knob purchase
> > for my B
> > > > > series.
> > > > >
> > > > > The parts that I am after and Digikey price
> > USD for
> > > > > quantities of 50 are:
> > > > >
> > > > > PKA50B1/4 ----$1.94 each
> > > > > PKA70B1/4 ----$2.66 each
> > > > > PKA90B1/4 --- $4.00 each
> > > > >
> > > > > If I order enough quantity I can get this
> > down to a USD
> > > > > resale price of:
> > > > >
> > > > > PKA50B1/4 ----$0.90 each
> > > > > PKA70B1/4 ----$1.25 each
> > > > > PKA90B1/4 ----$1.90 each
> > > > >
> > > > > This would be for 50 piece minimum with
> > additional $25-35
> > > > > (US) for shipping depending on ship method.
> > > > > Paypal would be main payment method.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please let me know if there would be any
> > interest so I can
> > > > > gage the size of order to place.
> > > > > It would take about 8 weeks till I receive
> > the knobs from
> > > > > manufacturer.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Bruce Duncan
> > > > > Modcan Synthesizer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > > > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > > >
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Synth-diy mailing list
> > > >Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > >
> > >http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Sun Mar  1 01:47:50 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:47:50 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W1687D59FB1389FFEA2B104C8AB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Dan,

If it's got "d something" over "d something" in it, its differential
calculus (the d's on top and the somethings on the bottom can also have
exponents).  If it has a big S-shaped thingy to the left of everything
(often with little numbers or symbols above and below it), with a "d
something" at the far right, its integral calculus.  If its got "e" or "exp"
or "ln" or "log", then its an exponential or logarithmic function.  If it's
got "sin" or "cos" or "tan" or "cot" or "sec" or "csc", with or without an
"arc" in front or an "h" behind, then its trigonometry.  If everything is a
function of "s" then it's a Laplace transform.  Alternatively, if everything
is a function of "jw" (where the "w" is really an undercase omega), then
it's a Fourier transform, which is really a Laplace transform where s = jw.
If it's got lots of "j"s all over the place, then its complex math.
Otherwise, it's just algebra!  (See how easy it all is?!?  ;->)

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Snazelle [mailto:subjectivity at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:49 AM
> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca; sdiy
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > My advice to Dan and others would be not to set out to "learn math", but
> > only electronics.  When something mathematical arises that you don't
> > understand, then learn the specific bit of math required to get over the
> > hump -- read a wiki, ask a friend, crack a textbook, whatever -- but
> always
> > only in the service of electronics.  This way, the math will slip in by
> > osmosis.
> 
> 
> one question i have about this good advice is how to TELL what i AM
> LOOKING AT. (so i can understand a specific bit)
> 
> for example I just got the book on non linear electronics from analog
> devices. It seems full of  great stuff BUT is full of equations.
> however how can i tell just from looking at some weird equation what i
> will need to learn to understand it
> ? it's not as if they say "this is from algebra 2 or this is from calc"
> 
> so  that right there makes the piecemeal approach hard at times.
> 
> 
> thanks



From matt at smiffytech.com  Sun Mar  1 02:25:25 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:55:25 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI state machine for arpeggiator
In-Reply-To: <200902281207.33397.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <49A8CF09.7000807@smiffytech.com>
	<200902281207.33397.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <49A9E405.9080700@smiffytech.com>

Quoth ASSI at 2009-02-28 21:37...
> I don't know where you expect to get the MIDI data from and if you can 
> make certain assumptions, but if it's from a master keyboard or 
> sequencer you really need to implement running status (you get just 
> one status byte and then many note/velocity pairs) and recognize that 
> a NoteOn with Velocity=0 really is a NoteOff.

I think I understand.  Just to confirm, rather than what I thought was 
the stream:

noteon-n1-v1 noteon-n2-v2 noteon-n3-v3

...where n(n) is note number and v(n) is velocity.

For the same channel we may actually see:

noteon-n1-v1-n2-v2-n3-v3 ... etcetera

...and with v(n)=0 as part of the note on stream representing a note off.

> Your state machine is not robust in the sense that when a byte 
> goes missing it doesn't synchronize at the next command byte (it would 
> swallow it when waiting for velocity for instance).

So each state > 0 needs to look out for another command byte?

If my understanding is correct, it's still fairly simple stuff.

Many thanks for your response, Achim.

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sun Mar  1 02:31:36 2009
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 02:31:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49A9E578.2010201@rubidium.dyndns.org>

David G. Dixon skrev:
> Dan,
> 
> If it's got "d something" over "d something" in it, its differential
> calculus (the d's on top and the somethings on the bottom can also have
> exponents).  If it has a big S-shaped thingy to the left of everything
> (often with little numbers or symbols above and below it), with a "d
> something" at the far right, its integral calculus.  If its got "e" or "exp"
> or "ln" or "log", then its an exponential or logarithmic function.  If it's
> got "sin" or "cos" or "tan" or "cot" or "sec" or "csc", with or without an
> "arc" in front or an "h" behind, then its trigonometry.  If everything is a
> function of "s" then it's a Laplace transform.  Alternatively, if everything
> is a function of "jw" (where the "w" is really an undercase omega), then
> it's a Fourier transform, which is really a Laplace transform where s = jw.
> If it's got lots of "j"s all over the place, then its complex math.
> Otherwise, it's just algebra!  (See how easy it all is?!?  ;->)

Hehe... the Laplace transform and its variations (Z-transform, Fourier 
transform and Discrete Fourier Transform) is a very powerful tool. It 
allows converting complex linear diffrential equations into much simpler 
things and allows analysis of them. Some of that can be a bit 
hairpulling still, but it will be much more usefull in the end.

Many people having math skills may still fail to recognice that the 
Fourier transform is a proper subcase of the Laplace transform (they 
claim that the integration limits are not matching, which they can be 
made to be) and another approach is to say that Laplace is a side-case 
to the Fourier transform. Ah well.

For filters, it is convenient to learn about the concept of poles and 
zeros. It is usefull to learn about amplitude responce and phase 
responce (both being responce of frequency on the jomega-axis) and also 
concepts of phase-delay and group-delay. When getting used to those 
concepts some analysis can be made on a conceptual level and guide you 
in the right direction.

While these are the more complex aspects, they are important tools, and 
sometimes you don't really need to know the inner workings of these 
tools to make good use of them, you just need to learn the overall plot 
they give you. Studing them closer and closer to be able to learn them 
better is recommended as there might be important side-cases you need to 
learn about, limitations which may prohibit you or enable you depending 
on how you do things and is actually trying to achieve.

As for algebra, you don't need very advanced algebra skills most of the 
time. You can get away with pretty basic stuff using some tables for the 
more complex conversions such as those that the Fourier transform does 
for you. You need to be able to insert values into a formula to 
calculate a value, you need to be able to modify a formula to take the 
shape that the value you want is alone on one side of the equal sign and 
the rest of it is on the other side. You also needs to know how to 
"insert" a formula into another, to replace some variable by that 
formula. You will need to know how to reduce unnecessary complexity in 
formulas. It is usefull to be able to take basic formulas and build 
algebraic expressions from them. There is a whole list of small formula 
conversion tricks, all very basic, which can safely be applied. Then 
again some of them needs some care, as they cannot always be used. Just 
like a hammer may not be the best tool to hit a drum, or you need to 
know how to use it properly, as with a screw-driver hitting the trum, 
tapping with the handle on the drum is far better than hacking with the 
screwhead side into the drumskin...

Math can be fun, when you master it. Also, the more you learn, the less 
you need to actually remember, as you can figure things out backways if 
you want to and need to. It becomes easier to convert methods from other 
fields, which is a method in itself... working with analogies. One 
should however always recall that we use much simplified models for 
electronics compared to the complex physical phenomenes we have going 
on. The macroscopic models are that, models on the large scale of 
things. To fully understand it you would need to know details of what 
particles is where in a design, know details of physics still in deep 
research and resolve the complex equations... which is impossible. But 
models gives us simplifications which makes us be able to understand 
most of it... until the limits of the model prohibits us, such as it 
being a linear and noise-free model for instance.

Cheers,
Magnus


From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Sun Mar  1 03:55:57 2009
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl.)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 03:55:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] opinions about handheld scopes?
Message-ID: <309CE770-7DE1-4614-9B1A-E2D90918D420@blauwurf.info>

Hello,

      I'd like to get some opinons about handheld scopes for analogue  
SDIY.

I'd prefer more memory for LF signals and two channels but that's what  
I narrowed down so far:

http://www.velleman.be/be/en/product/view/?id=342656
http://www.velleman.be/be/en/product/view/?id=351265

To get an idea about prices I also looked at http://www.professionalequipment.com/oscilloscopes/
(although I'm in Europe).

Currently I have this big analogue Kenwood CS-5170 which I like but it  
takes a lot of space and does strange things lately.

    Thanks a lot,  Michael.



--
hear the colours of noise: http://blauwurf.at






From davebr at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  1 06:30:49 2009
From: davebr at earthlink.net (David Brown)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:30:49 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI state machine for arpeggiator
In-Reply-To: <49A9E405.9080700@smiffytech.com>
References: <49A8CF09.7000807@smiffytech.com>
	<200902281207.33397.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<49A9E405.9080700@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <0KFT0074FBBDBBET@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

I'm joining this late ... but your issue is running status.  There is 
a "high speed" mode in MIDI where you can drop the command byte and 
just send data.  In this case you are getting the first note on 
command and then a string of two byte sequences ... note and 
velocity.   You can tell that the command byte is missing in that bit 
8 is 0 for data.  Your interpreter has to be smart enough to handle 
this.  Note that in this sequence of data, you can get real time 
messages interleaved at any time.  These are a small subset of single 
byte commands.  Your interpreter has to be able to sort these out as well.

Dave

At 05:25 PM 2/28/2009, Matthew Smith wrote:
>Quoth ASSI at 2009-02-28 21:37...
>>I don't know where you expect to get the MIDI data from and if you 
>>can make certain assumptions, but if it's from a master keyboard or 
>>sequencer you really need to implement running status (you get just 
>>one status byte and then many note/velocity pairs) and recognize 
>>that a NoteOn with Velocity=0 really is a NoteOff.
>
>I think I understand.  Just to confirm, rather than what I thought 
>was the stream:
>
>noteon-n1-v1 noteon-n2-v2 noteon-n3-v3
>
>...where n(n) is note number and v(n) is velocity.
>
>For the same channel we may actually see:
>
>noteon-n1-v1-n2-v2-n3-v3 ... etcetera
>
>...and with v(n)=0 as part of the note on stream representing a note off.
>
>>Your state machine is not robust in the sense that when a byte goes 
>>missing it doesn't synchronize at the next command byte (it would 
>>swallow it when waiting for velocity for instance).
>
>So each state > 0 needs to look out for another command byte?
>
>If my understanding is correct, it's still fairly simple stuff.
>
>Many thanks for your response, Achim.
>
>Cheers
>
>M



From matt at smiffytech.com  Sun Mar  1 06:36:28 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:06:28 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI state machine for arpeggiator
In-Reply-To: <0KFT0074FBBDBBET@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <49A8CF09.7000807@smiffytech.com>
	<200902281207.33397.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<49A9E405.9080700@smiffytech.com>
	<0KFT0074FBBDBBET@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <49AA1EDC.6070001@smiffytech.com>

Quoth David Brown at 2009-03-01 16:00...
> I'm joining this late ... but your issue is running status.  There is 
> a "high speed" mode in MIDI where you can drop the command byte and 
> just send data.  In this case you are getting the first note on 
> command and then a string of two byte sequences ... note and 
> velocity.   You can tell that the command byte is missing in that bit 
> 8 is 0 for data.  Your interpreter has to be smart enough to handle 
> this.  Note that in this sequence of data, you can get real time 
> messages interleaved at any time.  These are a small subset of single 
> byte commands.  Your interpreter has to be able to sort these out as well.

Thanks, that means my interpretation of Achim's message is correct.

As is stands, timing bytes and 0xFF are checked by calling a routine 
before examining the state.  In other words, if one of these comes in, 
it's passed on directly and the state machine is not invoked.

I thought that this "high-speed" mode was going to be a pain but have 
since worked out that it only requires two extra states to be added. 
It's just that each state needs to make several more checks.

Now to transfer my diagram on paper back to the text editor.

Cheers

M


-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  1 07:38:57 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 06:38:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <BAY144-W1687D59FB1389FFEA2B104C8AB0@phx.gbl>
	<0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W18A3B04130DD4E53C7C7D9C8A80@phx.gbl>


ok

what about if it has little triangles? (are these delta? what school of math is this? algebra?)

also...i keep reading about transform functions...is that calculus?

i am also seeing a few other weird symbols pop up.
thanks so much


spending my saturday night reading "mastering technical mathematics"





--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page





> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:47:50 -0800
> From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> 
> Dan,
> 
> If it's got "d something" over "d something" in it, its differential
> calculus (the d's on top and the somethings on the bottom can also have
> exponents).  If it has a big S-shaped thingy to the left of everything
> (often with little numbers or symbols above and below it), with a "d
> something" at the far right, its integral calculus.  If its got "e" or "exp"
> or "ln" or "log", then its an exponential or logarithmic function.  If it's
> got "sin" or "cos" or "tan" or "cot" or "sec" or "csc", with or without an
> "arc" in front or an "h" behind, then its trigonometry.  If everything is a
> function of "s" then it's a Laplace transform.  Alternatively, if everything
> is a function of "jw" (where the "w" is really an undercase omega), then
> it's a Fourier transform, which is really a Laplace transform where s = jw.
> If it's got lots of "j"s all over the place, then its complex math.
> Otherwise, it's just algebra!  (See how easy it all is?!?  ;->)
> 
> David G. Dixon
> Professor
> Department of Materials Engineering
> University of British Columbia
> 309-6350 Stores Road
> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> Canada
>  
> Tel 1-604-822-3679
> Fax 1-604-822-3619
>  
> "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>  
> The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
> intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
> must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
> are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
> copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dan Snazelle [mailto:subjectivity at hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:49 AM
>> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca; sdiy
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> My advice to Dan and others would be not to set out to "learn math", but
>>> only electronics.  When something mathematical arises that you don't
>>> understand, then learn the specific bit of math required to get over the
>>> hump -- read a wiki, ask a friend, crack a textbook, whatever -- but
>> always
>>> only in the service of electronics.  This way, the math will slip in by
>>> osmosis.
>> 
>> 
>> one question i have about this good advice is how to TELL what i AM
>> LOOKING AT. (so i can understand a specific bit)
>> 
>> for example I just got the book on non linear electronics from analog
>> devices. It seems full of  great stuff BUT is full of equations.
>> however how can i tell just from looking at some weird equation what i
>> will need to learn to understand it
>> ? it's not as if they say "this is from algebra 2 or this is from calc"
>> 
>> so  that right there makes the piecemeal approach hard at times.
>> 
>> 
>> thanks
> 



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  1 07:43:11 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 06:43:11 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <49A9E578.2010201@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<49A9E578.2010201@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W203AF3A5F34A420912A1A0C8A80@phx.gbl>




thanks a ton for all that info on which things i need to be able to do,etc

great read



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 02:31:36 +0100
> From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org
> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca
> CC: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
>
> David G. Dixon skrev:
>> Dan,
>>
>> If it's got "d something" over "d something" in it, its differential
>> calculus (the d's on top and the somethings on the bottom can also have
>> exponents). If it has a big S-shaped thingy to the left of everything
>> (often with little numbers or symbols above and below it), with a "d
>> something" at the far right, its integral calculus. If its got "e" or "exp"
>> or "ln" or "log", then its an exponential or logarithmic function. If it's
>> got "sin" or "cos" or "tan" or "cot" or "sec" or "csc", with or without an
>> "arc" in front or an "h" behind, then its trigonometry. If everything is a
>> function of "s" then it's a Laplace transform. Alternatively, if everything
>> is a function of "jw" (where the "w" is really an undercase omega), then
>> it's a Fourier transform, which is really a Laplace transform where s = jw.
>> If it's got lots of "j"s all over the place, then its complex math.
>> Otherwise, it's just algebra! (See how easy it all is?!? ;->)
>
> Hehe... the Laplace transform and its variations (Z-transform, Fourier
> transform and Discrete Fourier Transform) is a very powerful tool. It
> allows converting complex linear diffrential equations into much simpler
> things and allows analysis of them. Some of that can be a bit
> hairpulling still, but it will be much more usefull in the end.
>
> Many people having math skills may still fail to recognice that the
> Fourier transform is a proper subcase of the Laplace transform (they
> claim that the integration limits are not matching, which they can be
> made to be) and another approach is to say that Laplace is a side-case
> to the Fourier transform. Ah well.
>
> For filters, it is convenient to learn about the concept of poles and
> zeros. It is usefull to learn about amplitude responce and phase
> responce (both being responce of frequency on the jomega-axis) and also
> concepts of phase-delay and group-delay. When getting used to those
> concepts some analysis can be made on a conceptual level and guide you
> in the right direction.
>
> While these are the more complex aspects, they are important tools, and
> sometimes you don't really need to know the inner workings of these
> tools to make good use of them, you just need to learn the overall plot
> they give you. Studing them closer and closer to be able to learn them
> better is recommended as there might be important side-cases you need to
> learn about, limitations which may prohibit you or enable you depending
> on how you do things and is actually trying to achieve.
>
> As for algebra, you don't need very advanced algebra skills most of the
> time. You can get away with pretty basic stuff using some tables for the
> more complex conversions such as those that the Fourier transform does
> for you. You need to be able to insert values into a formula to
> calculate a value, you need to be able to modify a formula to take the
> shape that the value you want is alone on one side of the equal sign and
> the rest of it is on the other side. You also needs to know how to
> "insert" a formula into another, to replace some variable by that
> formula. You will need to know how to reduce unnecessary complexity in
> formulas. It is usefull to be able to take basic formulas and build
> algebraic expressions from them. There is a whole list of small formula
> conversion tricks, all very basic, which can safely be applied. Then
> again some of them needs some care, as they cannot always be used. Just
> like a hammer may not be the best tool to hit a drum, or you need to
> know how to use it properly, as with a screw-driver hitting the trum,
> tapping with the handle on the drum is far better than hacking with the
> screwhead side into the drumskin...
>
> Math can be fun, when you master it. Also, the more you learn, the less
> you need to actually remember, as you can figure things out backways if
> you want to and need to. It becomes easier to convert methods from other
> fields, which is a method in itself... working with analogies. One
> should however always recall that we use much simplified models for
> electronics compared to the complex physical phenomenes we have going
> on. The macroscopic models are that, models on the large scale of
> things. To fully understand it you would need to know details of what
> particles is where in a design, know details of physics still in deep
> research and resolve the complex equations... which is impossible. But
> models gives us simplifications which makes us be able to understand
> most of it... until the limits of the model prohibits us, such as it
> being a linear and noise-free model for instance.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sun Mar  1 09:51:58 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 09:51:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <000301c999d9$0fdca080$2f95e180$@com>
References: <376212.25405.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<65543020-C7DA-4FA4-A2D8-25D9DAFCF521@comcast.net>
	<000301c999d9$0fdca080$2f95e180$@com>
Message-ID: <200903010951.59103.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Samstag, 28. Februar 2009, George Hearn wrote:
> The Oberheim XPander appears to have a mere 6 trimmers total for
> its 6 Voices!  It 'Autotunes' its oscillator pitch and scale, VCF
> pitch and scale, it even auto-calibrates its own resonance controls
> for the VCFs so all the voices break into resonance at the same
> point on the dial.  It's quite an achievement I think.  This is a
> design that doesn't use pots or DACs or digital pots but
> circumvents the need for trimming entirely..  bravo to them.  G

The XPander uses multiplying DACs for temperature compensation and the 
autotune basically calculates a CV distortion function to first 
measure and then accommodate the imperfections of the circuitry.

The Waldorf Q+ (and the AFB16 which uses the same filters) has a 
different scheme that sorts out all the first order errors with 
digitally controlled resistors directly in the circuit and then 
corrects the higher order errors on frequency and resonance via CV 
pre-distortion like the XPander (i.e. it is applied to the data that 
goes to the CV DAC).

I would not think of any of these approaches as "circumventing the 
need for trimming entirely".  Trimming removes imperfections and 
variations from a circuit and so do these autocalibration routines.  
They are designed to cope with a rather wide variation actually so 
that cheaper components can be used.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs




From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sun Mar  1 10:43:12 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:43:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI state machine for arpeggiator
In-Reply-To: <49A9E405.9080700@smiffytech.com>
References: <49A8CF09.7000807@smiffytech.com>
	<200902281207.33397.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<49A9E405.9080700@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <200903011043.12615.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Sonntag, 1. M?rz 2009, Matthew Smith wrote:
> I think I understand.  Just to confirm, rather than what I thought
> was the stream:
>
> noteon-n1-v1 noteon-n2-v2 noteon-n3-v3
>
> ...where n(n) is note number and v(n) is velocity.
>
> For the same channel we may actually see:
>
> noteon-n1-v1-n2-v2-n3-v3 ... etcetera
>
> ...and with v(n)=0 as part of the note on stream representing a
> note off.

Yes, especially for notes that are expected to sound together you will 
get this kind of data from all but the most simple MIDI sources.  
Sometimes you can switch it on and off and some MIDI routers can 
remove or insert running status if you configure them so.

> > Your state machine is not robust in the sense that when a byte
> > goes missing it doesn't synchronize at the next command byte (it
> > would swallow it when waiting for velocity for instance).
>
> So each state > 0 needs to look out for another command byte?

Yes.  MIDI is not secured against transmission faults, so you should 
be a bit defensive in how you deal with certain assumptions.

> If my understanding is correct, it's still fairly simple stuff.

Yes, it's hardly a complication.

There is one thing that you may not want to deal with because you 
might know it never happens:  sysex is a bit tricky because it does 
not necessarily end with "F7".  Instead you can just leave the sysex 
message open and the next status byte will implicitly close it.  One 
keyboard that is using this approach is the original Yamaha DX7, I've 
read.  If I understand correctly what you said about the changes to 
your implementation in a later message this might be already taken 
care of.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf rackAttack V1.04R1:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada





From igg.debus at t-online.de  Sun Mar  1 10:59:16 2009
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:59:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] distance meter for keyboard,
	was: Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10902281224n4c8b0471lc4b18387b44883ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10902251132h3ded06f1i5868155c110b2d4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<908a4c120902261325p2e0ba345v24ec1d6a4a109c97@mail.gmail.com>
	<49A70D1B.8060107@sonic.net>
	<5E12C1A7-5477-471C-BD50-E41E66178147@doctroid.net>
	<0EC91E56-04AA-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<4C7730CE-04AC-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270232q4765a27cqf85cc8e7160b3602@mail.gmail.com>
	<097CE1D0-A50E-4D86-AB55-323E549DAD49@t-online.de>
	<cf1e1cb10902280555k57d1fbb0t643c33dc139c51d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<27c5115d0902280730w5c905662ubac3dd6c8576031@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902281224n4c8b0471lc4b18387b44883ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E458EB2B-A2C9-441B-8FB4-82724C8F496F@t-online.de>


Am 28.02.2009 um 21:24 schrieb cheater cheater:

> Then the next very difficult thing to do would be
> to figure out the distance meter for the key: I would probably go for
> something optical, and this assembly could be quite difficult, and
> parts hard to source.

Or you could use an analog (linear) hall sensor and a small magnet.  
This should not be too expensive, and easy to build.

Ingo


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sun Mar  1 13:23:19 2009
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 13:23:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W18A3B04130DD4E53C7C7D9C8A80@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W1687D59FB1389FFEA2B104C8AB0@phx.gbl>	<0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<BAY144-W18A3B04130DD4E53C7C7D9C8A80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49AA7E37.3070705@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Dan Snazelle skrev:
> ok
> 
> what about if it has little triangles? (are these delta? what school of math is this? algebra?)

I hope you are aware of the way functions is annotated, that a function 
f(x) is an annotation to say that the output of the function f depends 
on the input variable x. More variables can be used such as f(x,y,z), 
which could represent "it is a function of the position in space" or 
just a function of three variables just conveniently labeled x, y and z.

The little triangle is the greek Delta sign (big delta) which is used to 
signify some difference. For example:

/| x(n) = x(n+1)-x(n)

It is still normal algebra, just a handy notation to describe a 
difference (which often is just called "a delta"). For clarity I will 
write delta below, but it means the same thing.

If define a delta of a functions f(x) output with some delta x variable
like this (notice that delta x is a different variable to that of x, 
think of it as a delta along the x axis):

delta y = f(x+ delta x) - f(x)

and divides it by delta y you get an expression of the slope over the 
delta x distance as a function of where on x you are. If you now let the 
delta x go towards very very very small... just taking the plunge 
towards zero... but not quite get there... we say that we let delta x 
goes towards the limit value of 0 (at this time) you get the funky formula

                       f(x+delta x) - f(x)
f'(x) =      lim      -------------------
         delta x -> 0        delta x

As you can see it removes the DC component of f(x) at the value of x, 
but scales the slope so it is the slope at x and not tainted by nearby 
values. This is called derivation and this is what the funky d notation 
also says... and the ' in the f(x) tells you that the function f(x) you 
had now has been transformed into another function, f'(x), which has the 
slope or derivate of f(x).

          d f(x)
f'(x) =  ------
           d x

describes the same thing...

This is the step from algebra over to calculus.

> also...i keep reading about transform functions...is that calculus?

Not necessarilly, to be strict anything you do in algebra is transforms 
too, but the transforms you hear about such as Fourier Transform, 
Laplace Transform etc. is generic linear transforms that builds upon 
calculus and is so important methods that they got a name of their own.

> i am also seeing a few other weird symbols pop up.
> thanks so much

Not all of them will be needed initially.

> spending my saturday night reading "mastering technical mathematics"

How about Saturday Night Live Mathematics?

Cheers,
Magnus


From doctroid at doctroid.net  Sun Mar  1 14:30:37 2009
From: doctroid at doctroid.net (Rich Holmes)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 08:30:37 -0500
Subject: [AH] Re: [sdiy] Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10902270254u7f4c8422k735ec3e1cdf26cc3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10902251132h3ded06f1i5868155c110b2d4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<821D0497-B075-4155-9589-937CD561AFCB@electricdruid.net>
	<87441170902261250j634f497ap80083154c3b6faa8@mail.gmail.com>
	<908a4c120902261325p2e0ba345v24ec1d6a4a109c97@mail.gmail.com>
	<49A70D1B.8060107@sonic.net>
	<5E12C1A7-5477-471C-BD50-E41E66178147@doctroid.net>
	<0EC91E56-04AA-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<4C7730CE-04AC-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270232q4765a27cqf85cc8e7160b3602@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270254u7f4c8422k735ec3e1cdf26cc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <920495C6-CED9-49A4-9001-5202C5369ECF@doctroid.net>

On Feb 27, 2009, at 5:54 AM, cheater cheater wrote:

> I know this sounds dumb, but an octave that is 12 notes long doesn't
> make sense either, and that's what we have right now.

Sure it does, if you understand how western music evolved.

One simple way to look at it is to understand that the octave  
(frequency ratio 2/1) and the perfect fifth (3/2) are the two most  
fundamental intervals in western music. So start at a note and start  
going up by fifths; whenever it gets too high, drop down again by  
octaves.  You get (e.g.) F C G D A E B F# C# G# D# A# and then the  
next note is E# -- which if you're using exactly just fifths and  
octaves is about a quarter of a semitone above F. That's inconvenient  
so shave a little off each fifth and after twelve fifths you come  
back exactly to F. There you are: twelve notes, equally tempered.

> Neither does it make sense to use the word semitone if one semitone
> can be as long as one tone, or as long as a half of it, in some random
> order that i could never really understand. ;-)

No, a semitone is always -- in equal temperament -- half the size of  
a whole tone. But a major scale uses five whole tones and two  
semitones... in some non-random order. The reason for that choice is  
grounded in ancient Greek music theory, but notice in the exercise  
above, if you start on F and you stop at seven notes you get a C  
major scale. You don't want to stop at six notes because that gives  
you too big a gap between A and C... whereas if you stop at eight  
notes you get an awkward run of three semitones in a row (E-F-F#-G),  
and in just intonation they aren't even the same size semitone (F to  
F# is different -- a little smaller if I remember right) -- so seven  
notes it is.

It all makes sense for music based on fifths and octaves, and it  
gives you acceptable major and minor thirds and sixths (frequency  
ratios involving 5, e.g. 6/5, 5/4 ...) . Now if you want to make  
music using ratios involving 7, or if you want better thirds than you  
get in 12-note equal temperament, or if you frankly just want to  
sound weird, then you start looking at other schemes, and inventing  
other schemes... and all sorts of (fun) hell breaks loose...



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 14:31:36 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 13:31:36 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <49AA7E37.3070705@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <BAY144-W1687D59FB1389FFEA2B104C8AB0@phx.gbl>
	<0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<BAY144-W18A3B04130DD4E53C7C7D9C8A80@phx.gbl>
	<49AA7E37.3070705@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903010531j49da3dc3pe9705b3674db01b5@mail.gmail.com>

Daniel,
if you're concerned about the symbols:
every maths book has a table of symbols that exist in them. Usually at the end.
Search through books until you find the symbol, the table will list
what page number it's on, then go on from there.

Hope this helps
D.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Magnus Danielson
<magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:
> Dan Snazelle skrev:
>>
>> ok
>>
>> what about if it has little triangles? (are these delta? what school of
>> math is this? algebra?)
>
> I hope you are aware of the way functions is annotated, that a function f(x)
> is an annotation to say that the output of the function f depends on the
> input variable x. More variables can be used such as f(x,y,z), which could
> represent "it is a function of the position in space" or just a function of
> three variables just conveniently labeled x, y and z.
>
> The little triangle is the greek Delta sign (big delta) which is used to
> signify some difference. For example:
>
> /| x(n) = x(n+1)-x(n)
>
> It is still normal algebra, just a handy notation to describe a difference
> (which often is just called "a delta"). For clarity I will write delta
> below, but it means the same thing.
>
> If define a delta of a functions f(x) output with some delta x variable
> like this (notice that delta x is a different variable to that of x, think
> of it as a delta along the x axis):
>
> delta y = f(x+ delta x) - f(x)
>
> and divides it by delta y you get an expression of the slope over the delta
> x distance as a function of where on x you are. If you now let the delta x
> go towards very very very small... just taking the plunge towards zero...
> but not quite get there... we say that we let delta x goes towards the limit
> value of 0 (at this time) you get the funky formula
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f(x+delta x) - f(x)
> f'(x) = ? ? ?lim ? ? ?-------------------
> ? ? ? ?delta x -> 0 ? ? ? ?delta x
>
> As you can see it removes the DC component of f(x) at the value of x, but
> scales the slope so it is the slope at x and not tainted by nearby values.
> This is called derivation and this is what the funky d notation also says...
> and the ' in the f(x) tells you that the function f(x) you had now has been
> transformed into another function, f'(x), which has the slope or derivate of
> f(x).
>
> ? ? ? ? d f(x)
> f'(x) = ?------
> ? ? ? ? ?d x
>
> describes the same thing...
>
> This is the step from algebra over to calculus.
>
>> also...i keep reading about transform functions...is that calculus?
>
> Not necessarilly, to be strict anything you do in algebra is transforms too,
> but the transforms you hear about such as Fourier Transform, Laplace
> Transform etc. is generic linear transforms that builds upon calculus and is
> so important methods that they got a name of their own.
>
>> i am also seeing a few other weird symbols pop up.
>> thanks so much
>
> Not all of them will be needed initially.
>
>> spending my saturday night reading "mastering technical mathematics"
>
> How about Saturday Night Live Mathematics?
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar  1 14:32:18 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 14:32:18 +0100
Subject: [AH] Re: [sdiy] Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10902270254u7f4c8422k735ec3e1cdf26cc3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10902251132h3ded06f1i5868155c110b2d4a@mail.gmail.com>	<821D0497-B075-4155-9589-937CD561AFCB@electricdruid.net>	<87441170902261250j634f497ap80083154c3b6faa8@mail.gmail.com>	<908a4c120902261325p2e0ba345v24ec1d6a4a109c97@mail.gmail.com>	<49A70D1B.8060107@sonic.net>	<5E12C1A7-5477-471C-BD50-E41E66178147@doctroid.net>	<0EC91E56-04AA-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>	<4C7730CE-04AC-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>	<cf1e1cb10902270232q4765a27cqf85cc8e7160b3602@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270254u7f4c8422k735ec3e1cdf26cc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AA8E62.3020009@xs4all.nl>

cheater cheater schreef:
>> octaves that are 4 tones long and
>> stuff like that!
>>     
>
> I know this sounds dumb, but an octave that is 12 notes long doesn't
> make sense either, 
It doesn't?

By subdividing an octave in 12 semitones you can play chords that sound 
pleasant because harmonics in one note will have the same, or nearly the 
same, frequency as the fundamental or other harmonics in another.

Apparently, musicians have known about this for at least 5500 years.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning


-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 14:35:21 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 13:35:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] distance meter for keyboard, was: Where to get special
	white keys?
In-Reply-To: <E458EB2B-A2C9-441B-8FB4-82724C8F496F@t-online.de>
References: <cf1e1cb10902251132h3ded06f1i5868155c110b2d4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E12C1A7-5477-471C-BD50-E41E66178147@doctroid.net>
	<0EC91E56-04AA-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<4C7730CE-04AC-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270232q4765a27cqf85cc8e7160b3602@mail.gmail.com>
	<097CE1D0-A50E-4D86-AB55-323E549DAD49@t-online.de>
	<cf1e1cb10902280555k57d1fbb0t643c33dc139c51d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<27c5115d0902280730w5c905662ubac3dd6c8576031@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902281224n4c8b0471lc4b18387b44883ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<E458EB2B-A2C9-441B-8FB4-82724C8F496F@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903010535q57440177se8ee613b070f156f@mail.gmail.com>

And patented.
I know you can use patented things for DIY, though.

What about optical sensors?

D.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Ingo Debus <igg.debus at t-online.de> wrote:
>
> Am 28.02.2009 um 21:24 schrieb cheater cheater:
>
>> Then the next very difficult thing to do would be
>> to figure out the distance meter for the key: I would probably go for
>> something optical, and this assembly could be quite difficult, and
>> parts hard to source.
>
> Or you could use an analog (linear) hall sensor and a small magnet. This
> should not be too expensive, and easy to build.
>
> Ingo
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From cheater00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 14:54:50 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 13:54:50 +0000
Subject: [AH] Re: [sdiy] Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <920495C6-CED9-49A4-9001-5202C5369ECF@doctroid.net>
References: <cf1e1cb10902251132h3ded06f1i5868155c110b2d4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<87441170902261250j634f497ap80083154c3b6faa8@mail.gmail.com>
	<908a4c120902261325p2e0ba345v24ec1d6a4a109c97@mail.gmail.com>
	<49A70D1B.8060107@sonic.net>
	<5E12C1A7-5477-471C-BD50-E41E66178147@doctroid.net>
	<0EC91E56-04AA-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<4C7730CE-04AC-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270232q4765a27cqf85cc8e7160b3602@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270254u7f4c8422k735ec3e1cdf26cc3@mail.gmail.com>
	<920495C6-CED9-49A4-9001-5202C5369ECF@doctroid.net>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903010554i1ede3d48v4815e1ecec83c70c@mail.gmail.com>

What I meant was that 'octave' comes from the latin word for 'eight'.
A 12-tone octave means 'a bunch of 8 that is made up of 12 parts'. 12 = 8? :))

Anyone see the lack of consistency here?
Or the fact that there are two fifths? I mean, come on, when I'm
counting things only one of them is fifth. ;)

OK, enough of joking around.

Has anyone here ever tried making a Steinway style hammer action? I
wonder how easy it is to get it wrong.

Cheers
D.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Rich Holmes <doctroid at doctroid.net> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 2009, at 5:54 AM, cheater cheater wrote:
>
>> I know this sounds dumb, but an octave that is 12 notes long doesn't
>> make sense either, and that's what we have right now.
>
> Sure it does, if you understand how western music evolved.
>
> One simple way to look at it is to understand that the octave (frequency
> ratio 2/1) and the perfect fifth (3/2) are the two most fundamental
> intervals in western music. So start at a note and start going up by fifths;
> whenever it gets too high, drop down again by octaves. ?You get (e.g.) F C G
> D A E B F# C# G# D# A# and then the next note is E# -- which if you're using
> exactly just fifths and octaves is about a quarter of a semitone above F.
> That's inconvenient so shave a little off each fifth and after twelve fifths
> you come back exactly to F. There you are: twelve notes, equally tempered.
>
>> Neither does it make sense to use the word semitone if one semitone
>> can be as long as one tone, or as long as a half of it, in some random
>> order that i could never really understand. ;-)
>
> No, a semitone is always -- in equal temperament -- half the size of a whole
> tone. But a major scale uses five whole tones and two semitones... in some
> non-random order. The reason for that choice is grounded in ancient Greek
> music theory, but notice in the exercise above, if you start on F and you
> stop at seven notes you get a C major scale. You don't want to stop at six
> notes because that gives you too big a gap between A and C... whereas if you
> stop at eight notes you get an awkward run of three semitones in a row
> (E-F-F#-G), and in just intonation they aren't even the same size semitone
> (F to F# is different -- a little smaller if I remember right) -- so seven
> notes it is.
>
> It all makes sense for music based on fifths and octaves, and it gives you
> acceptable major and minor thirds and sixths (frequency ratios involving 5,
> e.g. 6/5, 5/4 ...) . Now if you want to make music using ratios involving 7,
> or if you want better thirds than you get in 12-note equal temperament, or
> if you frankly just want to sound weird, then you start looking at other
> schemes, and inventing other schemes... and all sorts of (fun) hell breaks
> loose...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 16:04:36 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 15:04:36 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] distance meter for keyboard, was: Where to get special
	white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903010535q57440177se8ee613b070f156f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10902251132h3ded06f1i5868155c110b2d4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<0EC91E56-04AA-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<4C7730CE-04AC-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270232q4765a27cqf85cc8e7160b3602@mail.gmail.com>
	<097CE1D0-A50E-4D86-AB55-323E549DAD49@t-online.de>
	<cf1e1cb10902280555k57d1fbb0t643c33dc139c51d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<27c5115d0902280730w5c905662ubac3dd6c8576031@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902281224n4c8b0471lc4b18387b44883ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<E458EB2B-A2C9-441B-8FB4-82724C8F496F@t-online.de>
	<cf1e1cb10903010535q57440177se8ee613b070f156f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903010704v317840aau959ffb50df229269@mail.gmail.com>

Ingo, I was trying to find the Ensoniq patent for poly aftertouch but
failed. Are you able to find it?

Cheers
D.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 1:35 PM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> And patented.
> I know you can use patented things for DIY, though.
>
> What about optical sensors?
>
> D.
>
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Ingo Debus <igg.debus at t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>> Am 28.02.2009 um 21:24 schrieb cheater cheater:
>>
>>> Then the next very difficult thing to do would be
>>> to figure out the distance meter for the key: I would probably go for
>>> something optical, and this assembly could be quite difficult, and
>>> parts hard to source.
>>
>> Or you could use an analog (linear) hall sensor and a small magnet. This
>> should not be too expensive, and easy to build.
>>
>> Ingo
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>


From KingRavine at comcast.net  Sun Mar  1 16:56:02 2009
From: KingRavine at comcast.net (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:56:02 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks
Message-ID: <C6855303CDD142FE82B06DCFCEAD59B3@HypoLuxa>

Hi List,

Does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the 1/4" audio jacks on a 
Microwave XT (rack mount)?

Thanks in advance,
Dave Magnuson



From KingRavine at comcast.net  Sun Mar  1 19:28:32 2009
From: KingRavine at comcast.net (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 13:28:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks
References: <C6855303CDD142FE82B06DCFCEAD59B3@HypoLuxa>
Message-ID: <6F54141D9B9D4BE4B5BDE370AB398124@HypoLuxa>

I've found a picture of the XT board.    Do these jacks look familiar to 
anyone?

http://www.sequencer.de/blog/synthesizer/2007/05/mwburnedja4.jpg

Thanks again
Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Magnuson" <KingRavine at comcast.net>
To: "SDIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:56 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks


> Hi List,
>
> Does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the 1/4" audio jacks on a 
> Microwave XT (rack mount)?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Dave Magnuson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 19:41:17 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 18:41:17 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks
In-Reply-To: <6F54141D9B9D4BE4B5BDE370AB398124@HypoLuxa>
References: <C6855303CDD142FE82B06DCFCEAD59B3@HypoLuxa>
	<6F54141D9B9D4BE4B5BDE370AB398124@HypoLuxa>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903011041p126d6180nf48f77aadbb88722@mail.gmail.com>

Try asking on the waldorf-music list..

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Dave Magnuson <KingRavine at comcast.net> wrote:
> I've found a picture of the XT board. ? ?Do these jacks look familiar to
> anyone?
>
> http://www.sequencer.de/blog/synthesizer/2007/05/mwburnedja4.jpg
>
> Thanks again
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Magnuson" <KingRavine at comcast.net>
> To: "SDIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:56 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks
>
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the 1/4" audio jacks on a
>> Microwave XT (rack mount)?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Dave Magnuson
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 21:00:44 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:00:44 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>

OK, I've done a search in online patents databases and couldn't find
the patent for ensoniq's hall sensor stuff..
I think I know why..
Patents only last 20 years total (and that's including the single
possible renewal you can do)
This means we're all free to use hall sensor technology in commercial
keyboards - yay!
So *this* is the secret of how the VAX guys circumvented the Ensoniq
patent... they *didn't*!

Good times, guys.
Expect many expressive keyboards.

Keyboard synthesizers can be musical instruments again.

D.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 3:04 PM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ingo, I was trying to find the Ensoniq patent for poly aftertouch but
> failed. Are you able to find it?
>
> Cheers
> D.
>
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 1:35 PM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> And patented.
>> I know you can use patented things for DIY, though.
>>
>> What about optical sensors?
>>
>> D.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Ingo Debus <igg.debus at t-online.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 28.02.2009 um 21:24 schrieb cheater cheater:
>>>
>>>> Then the next very difficult thing to do would be
>>>> to figure out the distance meter for the key: I would probably go for
>>>> something optical, and this assembly could be quite difficult, and
>>>> parts hard to source.
>>>
>>> Or you could use an analog (linear) hall sensor and a small magnet. This
>>> should not be too expensive, and easy to build.
>>>
>>> Ingo
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
>


From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 21:15:59 2009
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 22:15:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80903011215o30bb5515obb959c9cfadfccf2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com> wrote:
Blaa <snipety>

Get Real.

Samppa


From rainer at buchty.net  Sun Mar  1 21:18:03 2009
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:18:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012114560.2358@archimobil>

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, cheater cheater wrote:

> OK, I've done a search in online patents databases and couldn't find 
> the patent for ensoniq's hall sensor stuff.. I think I know why.. 
> Patents only last 20 years total (and that's including the single 
> possible renewal you can do)

Just because they are expired doesn't mean they are not listed. There 
are plenty of patents available in the database which are expired.

I remember the one about the gas-sensing device for mine workers from 
the 19th century. It basically consists of a canary bird and a cage.

Definitely expired but in the database.

Rainer



From rainer at buchty.net  Sun Mar  1 21:19:23 2009
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:19:23 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [AH] Re: [sdiy] Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903010554i1ede3d48v4815e1ecec83c70c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10902251132h3ded06f1i5868155c110b2d4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<87441170902261250j634f497ap80083154c3b6faa8@mail.gmail.com>
	<908a4c120902261325p2e0ba345v24ec1d6a4a109c97@mail.gmail.com>
	<49A70D1B.8060107@sonic.net>
	<5E12C1A7-5477-471C-BD50-E41E66178147@doctroid.net>
	<0EC91E56-04AA-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<4C7730CE-04AC-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270232q4765a27cqf85cc8e7160b3602@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270254u7f4c8422k735ec3e1cdf26cc3@mail.gmail.com>
	<920495C6-CED9-49A4-9001-5202C5369ECF@doctroid.net>
	<cf1e1cb10903010554i1ede3d48v4815e1ecec83c70c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012118400.2358@archimobil>

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, cheater cheater wrote:

> What I meant was that 'octave' comes from the latin word for 'eight'.
> A 12-tone octave means 'a bunch of 8 that is made up of 12 parts'. 12 
> = 8? :))
>
> Anyone see the lack of consistency here?

Nope.

Have a look at the old church scales.

Rainer



From igg.debus at t-online.de  Sun Mar  1 21:43:59 2009
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:43:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,
	was:  Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>


Am 01.03.2009 um 21:00 schrieb cheater cheater:

> OK, I've done a search in online patents databases and couldn't find
> the patent for ensoniq's hall sensor stuff..

Hmmmm, did Ensoniq use Hall sensors for aftertouch at all? I seem to  
remember it was something different. Rainer?

A linear Hall sensor costs about 1$ (I think). Add the cost for a  
small magnet. For poly aftertouch this would increase the cost of a  
keyboard significantly.

Ingo


From cheater00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 22:26:46 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:26:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903011326q7adf5df4w77181c16950e5e31@mail.gmail.com>

come on, 100 keys * 3 dollars = 300 dollars

certainly not a big amount by the standard of making the best keyboard
in the universe

and not a big one by the standard of making a *good* keyboard

A Yamaha cs-80 goes for 8000 dollars, that's over 20 times more

many people who moved out of their parents' houses make more than 300
dollars in 2 days

Not everything has to be a cheap shitty Behringer/Tapco/M-Audio

I gladly paid 850 GBP for my SQ-80

D.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Ingo Debus <igg.debus at t-online.de> wrote:
>
> Am 01.03.2009 um 21:00 schrieb cheater cheater:
>
>> OK, I've done a search in online patents databases and couldn't find
>> the patent for ensoniq's hall sensor stuff..
>
> Hmmmm, did Ensoniq use Hall sensors for aftertouch at all? I seem to
> remember it was something different. Rainer?
>
> A linear Hall sensor costs about 1$ (I think). Add the cost for a small
> magnet. For poly aftertouch this would increase the cost of a keyboard
> significantly.
>
> Ingo
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From cheater00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 22:31:00 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:31:00 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent,
In-Reply-To: <49AB0148.1010501@googlemail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
	<49AB0148.1010501@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903011331i672d227sa64398c11ff05547@mail.gmail.com>

Dragon,
very very interesting. Do you have any information on the patent?
Patent number maybe?

Also this reminds me of a Logitech Wingman Interceptor joystick which
i took apart in the late 90s and it had 2 metal plates attached to the
lever (might've been 4, don't remember now). Those plates were angled
towards the pcb, and when the lever was fully swiveled the plates
would pretty much be flush with the PCB. the PCB had a zigzag etched
on it in the place where the plate was. Could that have been the same
technology?

Cheers
D.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:42 PM, dragons <dragon.servicing at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I thought that the Ensoniq patent was using inductive sensors which were
> etched onto a pcb to sense the aftertouch.
> but I may be mistaken.....
> regards Peter
>
> Ingo Debus wrote:
>>
>> Am 01.03.2009 um 21:00 schrieb cheater cheater:
>>
>>> OK, I've done a search in online patents databases and couldn't find
>>> the patent for ensoniq's hall sensor stuff..
>>
>> Hmmmm, did Ensoniq use Hall sensors for aftertouch at all? I seem to
>> remember it was something different. Rainer?
>>
>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From rainer at buchty.net  Sun Mar  1 22:35:11 2009
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 22:35:11 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903011326q7adf5df4w77181c16950e5e31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
	<cf1e1cb10903011326q7adf5df4w77181c16950e5e31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012229390.2358@archimobil>

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, cheater cheater wrote:

> come on, 100 keys * 3 dollars = 300 dollars
>
> certainly not a big amount by the standard of making the best keyboard
> in the universe

To my understanding it's much cheaper -- the key is the core of an open 
coil, so by moving the key that alters the inductivity and therefore 
tunes an oscillator which frequency is then measured.

http://itec.uka.de/~buchty/ensoniq/schematics/sq80/sq80-kbd-lower.jpg
http://itec.uka.de/~buchty/ensoniq/schematics/sq80/sq80-kbd-upper.jpg
http://itec.uka.de/~buchty/ensoniq/schematics/sq80/sq80-kpc.jpg

Rainer



From grichter at asapnet.net  Sun Mar  1 22:36:37 2009
From: grichter at asapnet.net (Grant Richter)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 15:36:37 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Understanding Analog Computer Schematics?
In-Reply-To: <m2zlgbni1h.fsf@till.com>
References: <m2zlgbni1h.fsf@till.com>
Message-ID: <941C0BC6-E3CD-4A5D-BA7C-87228EB1FFD9@asapnet.net>

The least expensive, but quite capable, analog computer that I know  
of is in current production.

The Lab Electronics Model X3 "Analog Computer Trainer"

http://www.labelectronics.com/index.php? 
page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=43&category_id= 
13&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53

You should look at their other stuff too. Lab Electronics is located  
in India and is a husband and wife operation (or was).

I bought mine 12 years ago for US$325.00, I don't know what current  
pricing is. They are very hackable.

There are 4 integrators on board. They have 1 meg 1% input resistors.  
I just replaced one of the three on each integrator with a Vactrol to  
make it variable, and added a switch to switch to switch in a 1000 pF  
cap alternative to the 1 uF mylar film cap which it ships with. It  
handles standard synthesizer voltages of course. The integrators have  
nice voltage monitoring LEDs to tell you when the output is outside  
of +/- 10 volts.

Instant filter play box. I used it to develop the Wiard Boogie filter.

The build quality isn't military, but adequate, and they use very  
good components (metal film res. and mylar caps).





From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Sun Mar  1 22:42:32 2009
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragons)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:42:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, 
In-Reply-To: <0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <49AB0148.1010501@googlemail.com>

Hi,
I thought that the Ensoniq patent was using inductive sensors which were 
etched onto a pcb to sense the aftertouch.
but I may be mistaken.....
regards Peter

Ingo Debus wrote:
> 
> Am 01.03.2009 um 21:00 schrieb cheater cheater:
> 
>> OK, I've done a search in online patents databases and couldn't find
>> the patent for ensoniq's hall sensor stuff..
> 
> Hmmmm, did Ensoniq use Hall sensors for aftertouch at all? I seem to 
> remember it was something different. Rainer?
> 

> 


From cheater00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 22:46:07 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:46:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012229390.2358@archimobil>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
	<cf1e1cb10903011326q7adf5df4w77181c16950e5e31@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012229390.2358@archimobil>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903011346o597d53bar193095e3aa81b9a5@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, and there are hall effect chip sensors, completely integrated!
This is very important, because it simplifies the electronic side of
the thing. As you recall Rainer, the SQ80 has lag (now confirmed by
me) that has to do with the multiplexing of the scanner. I believe
that the chips just output a digital value, which means that every
chip has its own dedicated scanner/counter/whatever.

D.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Rainer Buchty <rainer at buchty.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, cheater cheater wrote:
>
>> come on, 100 keys * 3 dollars = 300 dollars
>>
>> certainly not a big amount by the standard of making the best keyboard
>> in the universe
>
> To my understanding it's much cheaper -- the key is the core of an open
> coil, so by moving the key that alters the inductivity and therefore tunes
> an oscillator which frequency is then measured.
>
> http://itec.uka.de/~buchty/ensoniq/schematics/sq80/sq80-kbd-lower.jpg
> http://itec.uka.de/~buchty/ensoniq/schematics/sq80/sq80-kbd-upper.jpg
> http://itec.uka.de/~buchty/ensoniq/schematics/sq80/sq80-kpc.jpg
>
> Rainer
>
>


From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Sun Mar  1 22:52:30 2009
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:52:30 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <200903010951.59103.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <376212.25405.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<65543020-C7DA-4FA4-A2D8-25D9DAFCF521@comcast.net>	<000301c999d9$0fdca080$2f95e180$@com>
	<200903010951.59103.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <002c01c99ab8$05819c50$1084d4f0$@com>

>The Waldorf Q+ (and the AFB16 which uses the same filters) has a 
>different scheme that sorts out all the first order errors with 
>digitally controlled resistors directly in the circuit and then 
>corrects the higher order errors on frequency and resonance via CV 
>pre-distortion like the XPander (i.e. it is applied to the data that 
>goes to the CV DAC).

I would call a digital resistor a 'trimmer' to if it was used to adjust or
'trim' a parameter of the physical circuit.

>I would not think of any of these approaches as "circumventing the 
>need for trimming entirely".  Trimming removes imperfections and 
>variations from a circuit and so do these autocalibration routines.  
>They are designed to cope with a rather wide variation actually so 
>that cheaper components can be used.

I would not consider an auto-calibration routine as a kind of trimming like
done in hardware with resistors or digital pots.  Auto-calibration routines
are there primarily to remove the need for trimming.  G


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Sun Mar  1 22:56:14 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 13:56:14 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W18A3B04130DD4E53C7C7D9C8A80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0KFU008RVKXXJQ@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Dan,

A triangle pointing up to the left of a variable (say, x) is to be read
"Delta x" and it simply means "macroscopic change in x" or "x_2 minus x_1"
(as opposed to "dx" from calculus, which means "infinitesimal change in x"
and is the limit as Delta approaches zero).  If the triangle is pointing
down, this is to be read "del x" or "nabla x" and is simply a stand-in for
the differential expression "dx/d?".  Generally, if x is differentiable by
more than one independent variable (for example, say x is a 2D variable in
the y-z plane, so it may be differentiated separately with respect to y or z
(i.e., dx/dy and dx/dz), then the upside-down triangle (or nabla) signifies
all possible differentials at once.  This is what we call "vector notation"
as it doesn't differentiate between the various dimensions of the problem.
There is a whole subfield of calculus called "vector calculus" which deals
with this.  In fact, in my professional work, I tend to use vector calculus
quite often, as I am dealing with flow in 3D, and vector calculus is more
convenient for me in this regard (as I only have to do it once, rather than
3 times).

Your question is a good one, because it leads directly to the most
fundamental idea in differential calculus; namely, the "central limit
theorem".  This says that a function evaluated at x + Delta-x minus that
function evaluated at x, all over Delta x, approaches the differential df/dx
as Delta-x approaches zero.  Draw a random curve on an x-y plot, take any
two points on the curve, and draw a straight line through them.  This is the
algebraic linear slope of those two points, or "Delta-y/Delta-x".  Now
slowly bring one point closer to the other, continuing to draw straight
lines through the two points.  When the two points essentially become one,
the last straight line you draw is the tangent slope of the function f(x) at
point x, or df(x)/dx.  This, in a nutshell, is differential calculus.  Every
single-valued function (i.e., one which has only one value at a given x) has
a unique differential (or tangent slope) at every point (unless there is a
discontinuity, or step-change, in which case there are two -- one on either
side of the step).  See?  It's really not that hard.  You can prove that
calculus is correct by taking two points an equal small distance in x from
the point of interest, say x+ and x-, by solving (f(x+) - f(x-))/(x+ - x-).
This will give you a very close approximation of df/dx at x (in the middle).
We call this the "finite difference approximation method".  

Sometimes it almost seems like magic that this calculus stuff works, but it
always does!

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Snazelle [mailto:subjectivity at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:39 PM
> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca; sdiy
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> 
> 
> ok
> 
> what about if it has little triangles? (are these delta? what school of
> math is this? algebra?)
> 
> also...i keep reading about transform functions...is that calculus?
> 
> i am also seeing a few other weird symbols pop up.
> thanks so much
> 
> 
> spending my saturday night reading "mastering technical mathematics"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
>  http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:47:50 -0800
> > From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca
> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> > To: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > If it's got "d something" over "d something" in it, its differential
> > calculus (the d's on top and the somethings on the bottom can also have
> > exponents).  If it has a big S-shaped thingy to the left of everything
> > (often with little numbers or symbols above and below it), with a "d
> > something" at the far right, its integral calculus.  If its got "e" or
> "exp"
> > or "ln" or "log", then its an exponential or logarithmic function.  If
> it's
> > got "sin" or "cos" or "tan" or "cot" or "sec" or "csc", with or without
> an
> > "arc" in front or an "h" behind, then its trigonometry.  If everything
> is a
> > function of "s" then it's a Laplace transform.  Alternatively, if
> everything
> > is a function of "jw" (where the "w" is really an undercase omega), then
> > it's a Fourier transform, which is really a Laplace transform where s =
> jw.
> > If it's got lots of "j"s all over the place, then its complex math.
> > Otherwise, it's just algebra!  (See how easy it all is?!?  ;->)
> >
> > David G. Dixon
> > Professor
> > Department of Materials Engineering
> > University of British Columbia
> > 309-6350 Stores Road
> > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> > Canada
> >
> > Tel 1-604-822-3679
> > Fax 1-604-822-3619
> >
> > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> >
> > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
> > intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
> > must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If
> you
> > are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering
> it to
> > the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
> > copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Dan Snazelle [mailto:subjectivity at hotmail.com]
> >> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:49 AM
> >> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca; sdiy
> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> My advice to Dan and others would be not to set out to "learn math",
> but
> >>> only electronics.  When something mathematical arises that you don't
> >>> understand, then learn the specific bit of math required to get over
> the
> >>> hump -- read a wiki, ask a friend, crack a textbook, whatever -- but
> >> always
> >>> only in the service of electronics.  This way, the math will slip in
> by
> >>> osmosis.
> >>
> >>
> >> one question i have about this good advice is how to TELL what i AM
> >> LOOKING AT. (so i can understand a specific bit)
> >>
> >> for example I just got the book on non linear electronics from analog
> >> devices. It seems full of  great stuff BUT is full of equations.
> >> however how can i tell just from looking at some weird equation what i
> >> will need to learn to understand it
> >> ? it's not as if they say "this is from algebra 2 or this is from calc"
> >>
> >> so  that right there makes the piecemeal approach hard at times.
> >>
> >>
> >> thanks
> >



From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Sun Mar  1 23:08:37 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 15:08:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,
	was: 	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012114560.2358@archimobil>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012114560.2358@archimobil>
Message-ID: <000a01c99aba$453a8f30$cfafad90$@net>

To the best of my knowledge, all patents are public knowledge. If you can't
find it, that suggests it was not a patent, but protected intellectual
property. That, or it was not original/unique enough to be granted a patent.


Remember, in 1899 the head of the US patent office declared that everything
that could be invented, had been invented...


David


David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121
www.CFandE.com

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net






-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Rainer Buchty
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 1:18 PM
To: cheater cheater
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
Where to get special white keys?

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, cheater cheater wrote:

> OK, I've done a search in online patents databases and couldn't find 
> the patent for ensoniq's hall sensor stuff.. I think I know why.. 
> Patents only last 20 years total (and that's including the single 
> possible renewal you can do)

Just because they are expired doesn't mean they are not listed. There 
are plenty of patents available in the database which are expired.

I remember the one about the gas-sensing device for mine workers from 
the 19th century. It basically consists of a canary bird and a cage.

Definitely expired but in the database.

Rainer

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Sun Mar  1 23:18:03 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:18:03 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,
	was: 	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <000a01c99aba$453a8f30$cfafad90$@net>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012114560.2358@archimobil>
	<000a01c99aba$453a8f30$cfafad90$@net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090301151709.020c5628@mail.comcast.net>


>
>Remember, in 1899 the head of the US patent office declared that everything
>that could be invented, had been invented...

Do you have a definitive link to that?  (I've heard that it's a myth.) 



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  1 23:28:21 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 22:28:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W203AF3A5F34A420912A1A0C8A80@phx.gbl>
References: <0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<49A9E578.2010201@rubidium.dyndns.org>
	<BAY144-W203AF3A5F34A420912A1A0C8A80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W53C39D022B96B840AE9CBC8A80@phx.gbl>


anybody seen the microsoft Math 3.0? only 25 bucks... it says it helps you learn as it solves the equations step by step...just wondered if it might be useful.


thanks



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> From: subjectivity at hotmail.com
> To: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 06:43:11 +0000
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> thanks a ton for all that info on which things i need to be able to do,etc
>
> great read
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
> (updated monthly)
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
> AUDIO ARK:
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 02:31:36 +0100
>> From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org
>> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca
>> CC: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
>>
>> David G. Dixon skrev:
>>> Dan,
>>>
>>> If it's got "d something" over "d something" in it, its differential
>>> calculus (the d's on top and the somethings on the bottom can also have
>>> exponents). If it has a big S-shaped thingy to the left of everything
>>> (often with little numbers or symbols above and below it), with a "d
>>> something" at the far right, its integral calculus. If its got "e" or "exp"
>>> or "ln" or "log", then its an exponential or logarithmic function. If it's
>>> got "sin" or "cos" or "tan" or "cot" or "sec" or "csc", with or without an
>>> "arc" in front or an "h" behind, then its trigonometry. If everything is a
>>> function of "s" then it's a Laplace transform. Alternatively, if everything
>>> is a function of "jw" (where the "w" is really an undercase omega), then
>>> it's a Fourier transform, which is really a Laplace transform where s = jw.
>>> If it's got lots of "j"s all over the place, then its complex math.
>>> Otherwise, it's just algebra! (See how easy it all is?!? ;->)
>>
>> Hehe... the Laplace transform and its variations (Z-transform, Fourier
>> transform and Discrete Fourier Transform) is a very powerful tool. It
>> allows converting complex linear diffrential equations into much simpler
>> things and allows analysis of them. Some of that can be a bit
>> hairpulling still, but it will be much more usefull in the end.
>>
>> Many people having math skills may still fail to recognice that the
>> Fourier transform is a proper subcase of the Laplace transform (they
>> claim that the integration limits are not matching, which they can be
>> made to be) and another approach is to say that Laplace is a side-case
>> to the Fourier transform. Ah well.
>>
>> For filters, it is convenient to learn about the concept of poles and
>> zeros. It is usefull to learn about amplitude responce and phase
>> responce (both being responce of frequency on the jomega-axis) and also
>> concepts of phase-delay and group-delay. When getting used to those
>> concepts some analysis can be made on a conceptual level and guide you
>> in the right direction.
>>
>> While these are the more complex aspects, they are important tools, and
>> sometimes you don't really need to know the inner workings of these
>> tools to make good use of them, you just need to learn the overall plot
>> they give you. Studing them closer and closer to be able to learn them
>> better is recommended as there might be important side-cases you need to
>> learn about, limitations which may prohibit you or enable you depending
>> on how you do things and is actually trying to achieve.
>>
>> As for algebra, you don't need very advanced algebra skills most of the
>> time. You can get away with pretty basic stuff using some tables for the
>> more complex conversions such as those that the Fourier transform does
>> for you. You need to be able to insert values into a formula to
>> calculate a value, you need to be able to modify a formula to take the
>> shape that the value you want is alone on one side of the equal sign and
>> the rest of it is on the other side. You also needs to know how to
>> "insert" a formula into another, to replace some variable by that
>> formula. You will need to know how to reduce unnecessary complexity in
>> formulas. It is usefull to be able to take basic formulas and build
>> algebraic expressions from them. There is a whole list of small formula
>> conversion tricks, all very basic, which can safely be applied. Then
>> again some of them needs some care, as they cannot always be used. Just
>> like a hammer may not be the best tool to hit a drum, or you need to
>> know how to use it properly, as with a screw-driver hitting the trum,
>> tapping with the handle on the drum is far better than hacking with the
>> screwhead side into the drumskin...
>>
>> Math can be fun, when you master it. Also, the more you learn, the less
>> you need to actually remember, as you can figure things out backways if
>> you want to and need to. It becomes easier to convert methods from other
>> fields, which is a method in itself... working with analogies. One
>> should however always recall that we use much simplified models for
>> electronics compared to the complex physical phenomenes we have going
>> on. The macroscopic models are that, models on the large scale of
>> things. To fully understand it you would need to know details of what
>> particles is where in a design, know details of physics still in deep
>> research and resolve the complex equations... which is impossible. But
>> models gives us simplifications which makes us be able to understand
>> most of it... until the limits of the model prohibits us, such as it
>> being a linear and noise-free model for instance.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From rainer at buchty.net  Sun Mar  1 23:31:51 2009
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 23:31:51 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903011346o597d53bar193095e3aa81b9a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10903011200n4dc810d3ja57f4f3ba2809cac@mail.gmail.com>
	<0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
	<cf1e1cb10903011326q7adf5df4w77181c16950e5e31@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012229390.2358@archimobil>
	<cf1e1cb10903011346o597d53bar193095e3aa81b9a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903012313280.2358@archimobil>

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, cheater cheater wrote:

> Yes, and there are hall effect chip sensors, completely integrated! 
> This is very important, because it simplifies the electronic side of 
> the thing. As you recall Rainer, the SQ80 has lag (now confirmed by 
> me) that has to do with the multiplexing of the scanner. I believe 
> that the chips just output a digital value, which means that every 
> chip has its own dedicated scanner/counter/whatever.

If you're speaking of a modern redesign, I'm fully with you. Today, you 
would probably just use an FPGA to count the individual key oscillators 
rather than multiplexing them to just 4 "pickup lines".

The lag comes IMO from the fact that apart from the multiplexing, these 
lines take a certain time to settle and frequency changes being 
detected.

Rainer



From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar  1 23:57:14 2009
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 22:57:14 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <0KFU008RVKXXJQ@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <7E8836BE1BAB400996EBC69E98B56416@stingo>

> Sometimes it almost seems like magic that this calculus stuff 
> works, but it always does!

So magic in fact that it was about 175 years after calculus was invented
before we had a decent definition of what a limit really meant, and what a
real number really is, which then proved that what they'd been using for the
last 175 years was actually correct! Amazing.

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
www.timstinchcombe.co.uk






From doctroid at doctroid.net  Mon Mar  2 02:05:47 2009
From: doctroid at doctroid.net (Rich Holmes)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:05:47 -0500
Subject: [AH] Re: [sdiy] Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903010554i1ede3d48v4815e1ecec83c70c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cf1e1cb10902251132h3ded06f1i5868155c110b2d4a@mail.gmail.com>
	<87441170902261250j634f497ap80083154c3b6faa8@mail.gmail.com>
	<908a4c120902261325p2e0ba345v24ec1d6a4a109c97@mail.gmail.com>
	<49A70D1B.8060107@sonic.net>
	<5E12C1A7-5477-471C-BD50-E41E66178147@doctroid.net>
	<0EC91E56-04AA-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<4C7730CE-04AC-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270232q4765a27cqf85cc8e7160b3602@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10902270254u7f4c8422k735ec3e1cdf26cc3@mail.gmail.com>
	<920495C6-CED9-49A4-9001-5202C5369ECF@doctroid.net>
	<cf1e1cb10903010554i1ede3d48v4815e1ecec83c70c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <323C7B23-2CEA-4CCC-B847-065BB1773B72@doctroid.net>

On Mar 1, 2009, at 8:54 AM, cheater cheater wrote:

> What I meant was that 'octave' comes from the latin word for 'eight'.
> A 12-tone octave means 'a bunch of 8 that is made up of 12 parts'.  
> 12 = 8? :))
>
> Anyone see the lack of consistency here?

Oh, well, yes, that's dumb.  It's because there are 8 notes in a  
major scale, but only if you count the tonic twice, at beginning and  
end.  Which is silly, but we're stuck with it.




From richard at skydancer.com  Mon Mar  2 02:20:42 2009
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 01:20:42 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <7E8836BE1BAB400996EBC69E98B56416@stingo>
References: <7E8836BE1BAB400996EBC69E98B56416@stingo>
Message-ID: <729CD607-A522-4263-9BD6-D61BE97DC159@skydancer.com>


On 1 Mar 2009, at 22:57, Tim Stinchcombe wrote:

>> Sometimes it almost seems like magic that this calculus stuff
>> works, but it always does!
>
> So magic in fact that it was about 175 years after calculus was  
> invented
> before we had a decent definition of what a limit really meant, and  
> what a
> real number really is, which then proved that what they'd been  
> using for the
> last 175 years was actually correct! Amazing.

Yeah, well - it's maths. It just need to work.

The making sense part is optional. :)

Richard


From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  2 02:42:56 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 17:42:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,
	was:  Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <7692.64393.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


You can get Hall sensors for $0.50/a pop here, and at $0.45 for 100+ quantities:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/SS-19T/HALL-EFFECT-MAGNETIC-POSITION-SENSOR/-/1.html


_Kyle

--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Ingo Debus <igg.debus at t-online.de> wrote:

> From: Ingo Debus <igg.debus at t-online.de>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:  Where to get special white keys?
> To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 12:43 PM
> Am 01.03.2009 um 21:00 schrieb cheater cheater:
> 
> > OK, I've done a search in online patents databases
> and couldn't find
> > the patent for ensoniq's hall sensor stuff..
> 
> Hmmmm, did Ensoniq use Hall sensors for aftertouch at all?
> I seem to remember it was something different. Rainer?
> 
> A linear Hall sensor costs about 1$ (I think). Add the cost
> for a small magnet. For poly aftertouch this would increase
> the cost of a keyboard significantly.
> 
> Ingo
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Mon Mar  2 03:17:46 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:17:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,
	was:  Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <7692.64393.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
	<7692.64393.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090301191702.020c4208@mail.comcast.net>

At 06:42 PM 3/1/2009, Kyle Stephens wrote:

>You can get Hall sensors for $0.50/a pop here, and at $0.45 for 100+ 
>quantities:
>
>http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/SS-19T/HALL-EFFECT-MAGNETIC-POSITION-SENSOR/-/1.html

Those are switches.  You need *linear* Hall sensors. 



From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  2 03:27:49 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 18:27:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,
	was:  Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20090301191702.020c4208@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <327510.57828.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Oops!

Well, I was looking into just this sort of thing some time back, for a velocity sensitivity retrofit of a keyboard without such (the Ensoniq patent was suggested to me too, though I hadn't any luck either finding it). I found some comparable prices, on linear sensors, not just switches, somewhere, hm.


_Kyle

--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,  was:  Where to get special white keys?
> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com, "Synth-DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 6:17 PM
> At 06:42 PM 3/1/2009, Kyle Stephens wrote:
> 
> >You can get Hall sensors for $0.50/a pop here, and at
> $0.45 for 100+ 
> >quantities:
> >
> >http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/SS-19T/HALL-EFFECT-MAGNETIC-POSITION-SENSOR/-/1.html
> 
> Those are switches.  You need *linear* Hall sensors.


      


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Mon Mar  2 03:43:50 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:43:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,
	was:  Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <327510.57828.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20090301191702.020c4208@mail.comcast.net>
	<327510.57828.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090301194155.0212fc10@mail.comcast.net>

At 07:27 PM 3/1/2009, Kyle Stephens wrote:

>Well, I was looking into just this sort of thing some time back, for a 
>velocity sensitivity retrofit of a keyboard without such (the Ensoniq 
>patent was suggested to me too, though I hadn't any luck either finding 
>it). I found some comparable prices, on linear sensors, not just switches, 
>somewhere, hm.

They're less common.  Last time I needed some, I got free samples from 
Allegro:
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Categories/Sensors/linear.asp
Dunno about a kbds worth though. :-) 



From rtellason at verizon.net  Mon Mar  2 03:51:52 2009
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:51:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W53C39D022B96B840AE9CBC8A80@phx.gbl>
References: <0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<BAY144-W203AF3A5F34A420912A1A0C8A80@phx.gbl>
	<BAY144-W53C39D022B96B840AE9CBC8A80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200903012151.52437.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Sunday 01 March 2009 05:28:21 pm Dan Snazelle wrote:
> anybody seen the microsoft Math 3.0? only 25 bucks... it says it helps you
> learn as it solves the equations step by step...just wondered if it might
> be useful.

Dunno about that one,  but OpenOffice has a "Math" included (in a separate and 
distinct thing from the spreadsheet).,  Cost is $0.  I haven't played with it 
yet,  though,  so I can't comment on it too much,  though I'm happy enough 
with the rest of the package bits that I have used some.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Mon Mar  2 04:09:58 2009
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:09:58 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks
In-Reply-To: <6F54141D9B9D4BE4B5BDE370AB398124@HypoLuxa>
References: <C6855303CDD142FE82B06DCFCEAD59B3@HypoLuxa>
	<6F54141D9B9D4BE4B5BDE370AB398124@HypoLuxa>
Message-ID: <49AB4E06.7080200@imt.net>

Yeah that jack looks like the type many Roland and Yamaha units use.  
Mouser has some similar items but sometimes the pins aren't quite right 
and it's underneath we need to really see -Bob

Dave Magnuson wrote:

> I've found a picture of the XT board.    Do these jacks look familiar 
> to anyone?
>
> http://www.sequencer.de/blog/synthesizer/2007/05/mwburnedja4.jpg
>
> Thanks again
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Magnuson" 
> <KingRavine at comcast.net>
> To: "SDIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:56 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks
>
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the 1/4" audio jacks 
>> on a Microwave XT (rack mount)?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Dave Magnuson
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From rdrake at data2action.com  Mon Mar  2 04:22:06 2009
From: rdrake at data2action.com (rdrake)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:22:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] diy synth in action
Message-ID: <20090302032206.23830.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>

little video of a recent gig w/ sdiy modular and peter blaser fourses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4UrR7ku9-0


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar  2 07:42:25 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:42:25 +0100
Subject: [AH] Re: [sdiy] Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <323C7B23-2CEA-4CCC-B847-065BB1773B72@doctroid.net>
References: <cf1e1cb10902251132h3ded06f1i5868155c110b2d4a@mail.gmail.com>	<87441170902261250j634f497ap80083154c3b6faa8@mail.gmail.com>	<908a4c120902261325p2e0ba345v24ec1d6a4a109c97@mail.gmail.com>	<49A70D1B.8060107@sonic.net>	<5E12C1A7-5477-471C-BD50-E41E66178147@doctroid.net>	<0EC91E56-04AA-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>	<4C7730CE-04AC-11DE-8448-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>	<cf1e1cb10902270232q4765a27cqf85cc8e7160b3602@mail.gmail.com>	<cf1e1cb10902270254u7f4c8422k735ec3e1cdf26cc3@mail.gmail.com>	<920495C6-CED9-49A4-9001-5202C5369ECF@doctroid.net>	<cf1e1cb10903010554i1ede3d48v4815e1ecec83c70c@mail.gmail.com>
	<323C7B23-2CEA-4CCC-B847-065BB1773B72@doctroid.net>
Message-ID: <49AB7FD1.3080701@xs4all.nl>

Rich Holmes schreef:
> On Mar 1, 2009, at 8:54 AM, cheater cheater wrote:
>
>> What I meant was that 'octave' comes from the latin word for 'eight'.
>> A 12-tone octave means 'a bunch of 8 that is made up of 12 parts'. 12 
>> = 8? :))
>>
>> Anyone see the lack of consistency here?
>
> Oh, well, yes, that's dumb.  It's because there are 8 notes in a major 
> scale, but only if you count the tonic twice, at beginning and end.  
There are 7 notes in a major scale, but to complete one octave across 
them takes 8 steps.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar  2 07:52:59 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:52:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,	was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20090301191702.020c4208@mail.comcast.net>
References: <0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>	<7692.64393.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090301191702.020c4208@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>

Ian Fritz schreef:
> At 06:42 PM 3/1/2009, Kyle Stephens wrote:
>
>> You can get Hall sensors for $0.50/a pop here, and at $0.45 for 100+ 
>> quantities:
>>
>> http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/SS-19T/HALL-EFFECT-MAGNETIC-POSITION-SENSOR/-/1.html 
>>
>
> Those are switches.  You need *linear* Hall sensors.
Have you looked at the spec sheet on that page? Although not 
particularly linear, these appear to be analog sensors.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar  2 09:27:16 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:27:16 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [AH] Re: [sdiy] Where to get special white keys?
Message-ID: <31533.81.58.240.234.1235982436.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


Simon Brouwer schreef:
> Rich Holmes schreef:
>> On Mar 1, 2009, at 8:54 AM, cheater cheater wrote:
>>
>>> What I meant was that 'octave' comes from the latin word for 'eight'.
>>> A 12-tone octave means 'a bunch of 8 that is made up of 12 parts'. 12
>>> = 8? :))
>>>
>>> Anyone see the lack of consistency here?
>>
>> Oh, well, yes, that's dumb.  It's because there are 8 notes in a major
>> scale, but only if you count the tonic twice, at beginning and end.
> There are 7 notes in a major scale, but to complete one octave across
> them takes 8 steps.

On second thought that's 7 steps...

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Mar  2 09:28:27 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:28:27 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <2137_1235944625_1235944625_0KFU008RVKXXJQ@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <0KFV00LENE7G79@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

In my last post in answer to Dan Snazelle's query, I stupidly said the
following:

> Your question is a good one, because it leads directly to the most
> fundamental idea in differential calculus; namely, the "central limit
> theorem".

Of course, what I meant was the "mean value theorem".  (The CLT is a
statistics thing.)  I was actually in the middle of soldering up a new VCO
board design at the time Dan's original post came through, and I must have
been "hopped up" on flux fumes!

> This says that a function evaluated at x + Delta-x minus that
> function evaluated at x, all over Delta x, approaches the differential
> df/dx as Delta-x approaches zero.  

Of course, this is really the mean value theorem backwards, and is really
just the definition of the first derivative (thanks again, Sir Isaac!).




From derek at umatic.nl  Mon Mar  2 10:56:53 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:56:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] diy synth in action
In-Reply-To: <20090302032206.23830.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
References: <20090302032206.23830.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <49ABAD65.1000400@umatic.nl>

Yeah! Caught that one on Matrixsynth. Would like to see the Fourses a 
bit more closeup, in case you are taking any requests ;-)

best!
Derek

rdrake wrote:
> little video of a recent gig w/ sdiy modular and peter blaser fourses:


-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 147:
"State the problem as clearly as possible"


From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Mar  2 11:29:36 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:29:36 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,
	was:  Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20090301191702.020c4208@mail.comcast.net>
References: <0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
	<7692.64393.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090301191702.020c4208@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <894F201A-87D0-4E4A-B1F6-1326AFAD0FD1@electricdruid.net>


On 2 Mar 2009, at 02:17, Ian Fritz wrote:

> At 06:42 PM 3/1/2009, Kyle Stephens wrote:
>
>> You can get Hall sensors for $0.50/a pop here, and at $0.45 for 100 
>> + quantities:
>>
>> http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/SS-19T/HALL-EFFECT- 
>> MAGNETIC-POSITION-SENSOR/-/1.html
>
> Those are switches.  You need *linear* Hall sensors.

Are you sure? The linked datasheet shows a linear transfer graph and  
says "Analog devices are designed to produce an output voltage  
proportional to the intensity of the magnetic field to which they are  
exposed".

Looks like those could be ok to me.

T.




From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  2 13:45:28 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:45:28 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Gate/trigger splitter?
Message-ID: <BAY144-W13094573D6718C4603EB14C8A90@phx.gbl>



Today is a snowday here In NY and this gives me a little bit of time to work on SDIY.

A project I have wanted to build for awhile is a gate/trigger splitter and CV splitter. For the cv splitter i was planning on building this:

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/cvdistributor.html

and for the gate/trig splitter, well i cant find any schematics but I think its really a simple task.

Am i correct in thinking that gates can be split in the same way as audio? (basically just using a 4 way multiple?)


just wanted to check before i get soldering.

thanks!

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page






From KingRavine at comcast.net  Mon Mar  2 13:53:33 2009
From: KingRavine at comcast.net (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 07:53:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks
References: <C6855303CDD142FE82B06DCFCEAD59B3@HypoLuxa>
	<6F54141D9B9D4BE4B5BDE370AB398124@HypoLuxa>
	<49AB4E06.7080200@imt.net>
Message-ID: <4B05C0537CFD451393D07F03844A1306@HypoLuxa>

After a long day of using Google image search, here's what I found:

Manufacturer: S.C. Precision Industrial.
Series: SCJ630

Available here:
http://www.knap.at/produkte/steckverbinder/klinkenstecker/scj630-buchse-6-3mm

I think it's a bit different than the similar Roland part (it's different 
than my DR-110, at least)



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Weigel" <sounddoctorin at imt.net>
To: "Dave Magnuson" <KingRavine at comcast.net>
Cc: "SDIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks


> Yeah that jack looks like the type many Roland and Yamaha units use. 
> Mouser has some similar items but sometimes the pins aren't quite right 
> and it's underneath we need to really see -Bob
>
> Dave Magnuson wrote:
>
>> I've found a picture of the XT board.    Do these jacks look familiar to 
>> anyone?
>>
>> http://www.sequencer.de/blog/synthesizer/2007/05/mwburnedja4.jpg
>>
>> Thanks again
>> Dave
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Magnuson" 
>> <KingRavine at comcast.net>
>> To: "SDIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:56 AM
>> Subject: [sdiy] Waldorf Microwave XT audio jacks
>>
>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the 1/4" audio jacks on a 
>>> Microwave XT (rack mount)?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> Dave Magnuson
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> 



From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Mon Mar  2 13:58:37 2009
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:58:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Gate/trigger splitter?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W13094573D6718C4603EB14C8A90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <OFC8C4F14A.CEBF9121-ONC125756D.004718D8-C125756D.0047004A@jeppesen.com>

synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 03/02/2009 01:45:28 PM:
> 
> 
> Today is a snowday here In NY and this gives me a little bit of time
> to work on SDIY.
> 
> A project I have wanted to build for awhile is a gate/trigger 
> splitter and CV splitter. For the cv splitter i was planning on building 
this:
> 
> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/cvdistributor.html
> 
> and for the gate/trig splitter, well i cant find any schematics but 
> I think its really a simple task.
> 
> Am i correct in thinking that gates can be split in the same way as 
> audio? (basically just using a 4 way multiple?)


just a multiple. ray's circuit is for control voltages where you want to 
avoid voltage drops due to load.

cheers,
matthias
___
www.modular.fonik.de

> 
> 
> just wanted to check before i get soldering.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
>  http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc 
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From erwill at suitandtieguy.com  Mon Mar  2 15:08:03 2009
From: erwill at suitandtieguy.com (Suit & Tie Guy)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 08:08:03 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] diy synth in action
In-Reply-To: <20090302032206.23830.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
References: <20090302032206.23830.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <A126A35E-9E58-44A0-A4D5-5071A00EAF2D@suitandtieguy.com>

On Mar 1, 2009, at 9:22 PM, rdrake wrote:
> little video of a recent gig

i must know where this pizza parlour is, and wether it's across the  
street from one of those "Pizza & Pipes" places.
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Mon Mar  2 15:31:06 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:31:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for
	keyboard,	was: Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>
References: <0E51D488-A41E-4373-8645-6BF484D84512@t-online.de>
	<7692.64393.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090301191702.020c4208@mail.comcast.net>
	<49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090302072625.0208c858@mail.comcast.net>

At 11:52 PM 3/1/2009, Simon Brouwer wrote:

>Have you looked at the spec sheet on that page? Although not particularly 
>linear, these appear to be analog sensors.

Ooops!  Right you are.  I got confused by the Futurlec description.  These 
might be worth looking into further.  One thing to be careful about is 
whether they have temperature compensation.

Ian 



From chris at chrismusic.de  Mon Mar  2 15:42:44 2009
From: chris at chrismusic.de (ChristianH)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:42:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard,
	was: Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20090302072625.0208c858@mail.comcast.net>
References: <49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090302072625.0208c858@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20090302153835.6E5D.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:31:06 -0700 Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net> wrote:

> At 11:52 PM 3/1/2009, Simon Brouwer wrote:
> 
> >Have you looked at the spec sheet on that page? Although not particularly 
> >linear, these appear to be analog sensors.
> 
> Ooops!  Right you are.  I got confused by the Futurlec description.  These 
> might be worth looking into further.  One thing to be careful about is 
> whether they have temperature compensation.
> 
> Ian 


I don't know about temperature characteristics in this case, but a
simple offset could be compensated by measuring the all-notes-off values.

If there *is* an additional key contact, that is.

Christian



From derek at umatic.nl  Mon Mar  2 15:51:19 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:51:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
Message-ID: <49ABF267.20501@umatic.nl>

I had an IC burn out on me during a gig soundcheck last night. Damn it 
made a lot of smoke!!!!!!! Rest of the synth is fine so far, but it 
still smells pretty smoky. I know that smoke can cause damage to 
components over time, so is there any thing I can do about the residue 
inside the case? Or should I be worrying?

thx+best!
D.

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 182:
"What wouldn't you do?"


From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 16:03:00 2009
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:03:00 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <49ABF267.20501@umatic.nl>
References: <49ABF267.20501@umatic.nl>
Message-ID: <6C4F817C-6E1A-4595-B088-17B1E80A6979@blueyonder.co.uk>

Derek,

On 2 Mar 2009, at 14:51, Derek Holzer wrote:

> I had an IC burn out on me during a gig soundcheck last night. Damn  
> it made a lot of smoke!!!!!!! Rest of the synth is fine so far, but  
> it still smells pretty smoky. I know that smoke can cause damage to  
> components over time, so is there any thing I can do about the  
> residue inside the case? Or should I be worrying?

I can't think of anything that would be badly harmed by smoke apart  
from things like
connector or switch contacts if they are open rather than sealed. Heat  
is a problem
if excessive over a period of time, maybe thats what you were thinking.

Graham



From derek at umatic.nl  Mon Mar  2 16:06:36 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:06:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <6C4F817C-6E1A-4595-B088-17B1E80A6979@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <49ABF267.20501@umatic.nl>
	<6C4F817C-6E1A-4595-B088-17B1E80A6979@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49ABF5FC.9060904@umatic.nl>

Was more concerned about oxidizing/corrosive effects over time, but I'm 
far from an expert on those things, thus my question here. Thanks for 
your reply!

D.

Graham Atkins wrote:
> Derek,
> 
> On 2 Mar 2009, at 14:51, Derek Holzer wrote:
> 
>> I had an IC burn out on me during a gig soundcheck last night. Damn it 
>> made a lot of smoke!!!!!!! Rest of the synth is fine so far, but it 
>> still smells pretty smoky. I know that smoke can cause damage to 
>> components over time, so is there any thing I can do about the residue 
>> inside the case? Or should I be worrying?
> 
> I can't think of anything that would be badly harmed by smoke apart from 
> things like
> connector or switch contacts if they are open rather than sealed. Heat 
> is a problem
> if excessive over a period of time, maybe thats what you were thinking.
> 
> Graham
> 
> 

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 182:
"What wouldn't you do?"


From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Mar  2 16:08:21 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:08:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <49ABF267.20501@umatic.nl>
References: <49ABF267.20501@umatic.nl>
Message-ID: <88BC9F54-D0D6-4052-A093-1A693FBDB1EE@electricdruid.net>

I'd be worrying about what caused the chip to fry in the first place  
rather than about the smoke residue.

I've seen a lot of broken equipment, but I don't think I've ever seen  
a chip spontaneously burn out like you describe. I'd start hunting  
for other faults to see what caused it.

T.

On 2 Mar 2009, at 14:51, Derek Holzer wrote:

> I had an IC burn out on me during a gig soundcheck last night. Damn  
> it made a lot of smoke!!!!!!! Rest of the synth is fine so far, but  
> it still smells pretty smoky. I know that smoke can cause damage to  
> components over time, so is there any thing I can do about the  
> residue inside the case? Or should I be worrying?
>
> thx+best!
> D.
>
> -- 
> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/ 
> macumbista
> ---Oblique Strategy # 182:
> "What wouldn't you do?"
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From derek at umatic.nl  Mon Mar  2 16:35:15 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:35:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <88BC9F54-D0D6-4052-A093-1A693FBDB1EE@electricdruid.net>
References: <49ABF267.20501@umatic.nl>
	<88BC9F54-D0D6-4052-A093-1A693FBDB1EE@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49ABFCB3.3080103@umatic.nl>

Yes, of course! Will check power bus cable to start with. The module had 
stopped working a while back, I probably should have taken it out of the 
case then.

best!
D.

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> I'd be worrying about what caused the chip to fry in the first place 
> rather than about the smoke residue.
> 
> I've seen a lot of broken equipment, but I don't think I've ever seen a 
> chip spontaneously burn out like you describe. I'd start hunting for 
> other faults to see what caused it.
> 
> T.
> 
> On 2 Mar 2009, at 14:51, Derek Holzer wrote:
> 
>> I had an IC burn out on me during a gig soundcheck last night. Damn it 
>> made a lot of smoke!!!!!!! Rest of the synth is fine so far, but it 
>> still smells pretty smoky. I know that smoke can cause damage to 
>> components over time, so is there any thing I can do about the residue 
>> inside the case? Or should I be worrying?
>>
>> thx+best!
>> D.
>>
>> -- 
>> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: 
>> http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
>> ---Oblique Strategy # 182:
>> "What wouldn't you do?"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 95:
"Is something missing?"


From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Mon Mar  2 17:51:24 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:51:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <002c01c99ab8$05819c50$1084d4f0$@com>
References: <376212.25405.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<200903010951.59103.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<002c01c99ab8$05819c50$1084d4f0$@com>
Message-ID: <200903021751.24900.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

George,
On Sonntag, 1. M?rz 2009, George Hearn wrote:
> I would call a digital resistor a 'trimmer' to if it was used to
> adjust or 'trim' a parameter of the physical circuit.

what would you call it if it just produced a correction CV?

> I would not consider an auto-calibration routine as a kind of
> trimming like done in hardware with resistors or digital pots. 
> Auto-calibration routines are there primarily to remove the need
> for trimming.  G

If you want to get rid of the offset on a CV summer, you can provide a 
trimmer at some suitable node in the circuit, a DCR in place of the 
trimmer, a DAC in place of the trimmer or a (however produced) voltage 
at an extra input to the CV summer.  Where and why do you stop calling 
it trimming when the result is just the same?  Any auto-calibration 
routine only eliminates the need to measure and correct the offset by 
hand and really is an orthogonal issue (to me anyway).

[It would be nice if you'd convince your mailer not to quote 
signatures & trailers.]


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds





From cheater00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 17:53:57 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:53:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <20090302153835.6E5D.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090302072625.0208c858@mail.comcast.net>
	<20090302153835.6E5D.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903020853n58757fe9s2c1efaef39df6435@mail.gmail.com>

You don't really need an additional contact.
Just tell the user not to touch the keyboard when calibrating... like
the SQ-80 does!
DON'T TOUCH KEYBOARD << SQ80 does it like this. I love it.
but it could be useful, indeed.
now the question is whether temperature can change the *linearity*.
That's more important, I think. That's also a reason why I had
thoughts about an optical sensor.
Optical mice use cheap optical sensors... you can have a mouse like
that for 5 dollars, can't you? And that's including all the other crap
they put in em :) You'd also need a focused laser beam... no idea how
much those could be.

Optical sensors don't work that well in smoky rooms though... so no
jarre fog i guess? This definitely disqualifies optical technology for
some people ;)

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:42 PM, ChristianH <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:31:06 -0700 Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> At 11:52 PM 3/1/2009, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>>
>> >Have you looked at the spec sheet on that page? Although not particularly
>> >linear, these appear to be analog sensors.
>>
>> Ooops! ?Right you are. ?I got confused by the Futurlec description. ?These
>> might be worth looking into further. ?One thing to be careful about is
>> whether they have temperature compensation.
>>
>> Ian
>
>
> I don't know about temperature characteristics in this case, but a
> simple offset could be compensated by measuring the all-notes-off values.
>
> If there *is* an additional key contact, that is.
>
> Christian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 18:10:19 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:10:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <200903021751.24900.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <376212.25405.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<200903010951.59103.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<002c01c99ab8$05819c50$1084d4f0$@com>
	<200903021751.24900.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903020910u51aa9a88w5b6aae6303e8f27c@mail.gmail.com>

Another option is to fix up the parts that generate the incorrect
voltage, or that process the voltage incorrectly... by piggy-backing
resistors for example..

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 4:51 PM, ASSI <Stromeko at nexgo.de> wrote:
> George,
> On Sonntag, 1. M?rz 2009, George Hearn wrote:
>> I would call a digital resistor a 'trimmer' to if it was used to
>> adjust or 'trim' a parameter of the physical circuit.
>
> what would you call it if it just produced a correction CV?
>
>> I would not consider an auto-calibration routine as a kind of
>> trimming like done in hardware with resistors or digital pots.
>> Auto-calibration routines are there primarily to remove the need
>> for trimming. ?G
>
> If you want to get rid of the offset on a CV summer, you can provide a
> trimmer at some suitable node in the circuit, a DCR in place of the
> trimmer, a DAC in place of the trimmer or a (however produced) voltage
> at an extra input to the CV summer. ?Where and why do you stop calling
> it trimming when the result is just the same? ?Any auto-calibration
> routine only eliminates the need to measure and correct the offset by
> hand and really is an orthogonal issue (to me anyway).
>
> [It would be nice if you'd convince your mailer not to quote
> signatures & trailers.]
>
>
> Achim.
> --
> +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+
>
> Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Blofeld:
> http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  2 18:25:51 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <88BC9F54-D0D6-4052-A093-1A693FBDB1EE@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <38557.43873.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

--- On Mon, 3/2/09, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
> I've seen a lot of broken equipment, but I don't
> think I've ever seen a chip spontaneously burn out like
> you describe. I'd start hunting for other faults to see
> what caused it.

I agree.  While it is possible for an IC to undergo Spontaneous Semiconductor Combustion, it is more likely something external to the IC caused the failure.  Was the faulted IC anywhere near an I/O jack?  Is it possible an external wiring issue sent an overvoltage to the IC?  

--TimR


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon Mar  2 18:33:38 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:33:38 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PIC C libraries for MIDI apps..
Message-ID: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca>


Anybody have links for MIDI C programming ?
PIC oriented code would be a PLUS !!!
I'm in need of MIDI receiving code techniques.

Thanks 


 



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 18:41:37 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:41:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <908a4c120903020939i1e94a22dvfc6e9a655b740064@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090302072625.0208c858@mail.comcast.net>
	<20090302153835.6E5D.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
	<cf1e1cb10903020853n58757fe9s2c1efaef39df6435@mail.gmail.com>
	<908a4c120903020939i1e94a22dvfc6e9a655b740064@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903020941i4586202fic8c7b81e7299f75a@mail.gmail.com>

What is QTC, Amos?

Also, as far as shutter schemes are concerned: those can skip. This
would be very detrimental to the key's performance, as it would
pretend the key is depressed less than it really is. This means that
the key actually being fully depressed would never register.
Intermittent fault.

D.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Amos <controlvoltage at gmail.com> wrote:
> there's the option of an infrared emitter and phototransistor pair, with a
> moving vane or shutter between them & attached to the key.? Something like
> this ought to be reasonably fog-resistant I would expect, and if it's hidden
> beneath the keybed should be resistant to ambient/sunlight issues.? I don't
> know if there are any typical temperature-related changes to linearity or
> operating point with IR phototransistors, but none of the circuits I've seen
> which use these devices seem to have any temperature compensation so I
> suspect it's not a significant factor.
>
> Somebody (or multiple persons) on this list was/were working on a QTC-based
> poly-AT scheme last year or so...
> any progress on that front?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Amos
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:53 AM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> You don't really need an additional contact.
>> Just tell the user not to touch the keyboard when calibrating... like
>> the SQ-80 does!
>> DON'T TOUCH KEYBOARD << SQ80 does it like this. I love it.
>> but it could be useful, indeed.
>> now the question is whether temperature can change the *linearity*.
>> That's more important, I think. That's also a reason why I had
>> thoughts about an optical sensor.
>> Optical mice use cheap optical sensors... you can have a mouse like
>> that for 5 dollars, can't you? And that's including all the other crap
>> they put in em :) You'd also need a focused laser beam... no idea how
>> much those could be.
>>
>> Optical sensors don't work that well in smoky rooms though... so no
>> jarre fog i guess? This definitely disqualifies optical technology for
>> some people ;)
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:42 PM, ChristianH <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
>> > On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:31:06 -0700 Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> At 11:52 PM 3/1/2009, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Have you looked at the spec sheet on that page? Although not
>> >> > particularly
>> >> >linear, these appear to be analog sensors.
>> >>
>> >> Ooops! ?Right you are. ?I got confused by the Futurlec description.
>> >> ?These
>> >> might be worth looking into further. ?One thing to be careful about is
>> >> whether they have temperature compensation.
>> >>
>> >> Ian
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't know about temperature characteristics in this case, but a
>> > simple offset could be compensated by measuring the all-notes-off
>> > values.
>> >
>> > If there *is* an additional key contact, that is.
>> >
>> > Christian
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 18:45:09 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:45:09 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <38557.43873.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <88BC9F54-D0D6-4052-A093-1A693FBDB1EE@electricdruid.net>
	<38557.43873.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903020945y2b0a60b1mb79c3c87d8e88fd9@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe it commited suicide. Couldn't take no more krautrock.

Gave up the ghost.. or gave up the smoke, rather.

Sad story of a lonely dip.

D.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>> I've seen a lot of broken equipment, but I don't
>> think I've ever seen a chip spontaneously burn out like
>> you describe. I'd start hunting for other faults to see
>> what caused it.
>
> I agree. ?While it is possible for an IC to undergo Spontaneous Semiconductor Combustion, it is more likely something external to the IC caused the failure. ?Was the faulted IC anywhere near an I/O jack? ?Is it possible an external wiring issue sent an overvoltage to the IC?
>
> --TimR
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  2 18:49:05 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:49:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..
In-Reply-To: <58182.1235747856@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <939383.89420.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Jean-Pierre,

I like to use the notation (pun intended) of middle C = C4 = 261.6 Hz. This makes C0 = 16.35 Hz and C10 = 16742.4 Hz. Then I simply make the number be the volts: 4 volts = C4. This yields 0-10V = 16-16000 hz.

This arrangement has an added math advantage when working with a processor: the conversion from volts to frequency is (2^Volts_in) * F_lowest. In other words, if you want to sample a CV and produce the corresponding frequency, raise 2 to the power of the CV voltage and multiply by the frequency you want 0 volts to be. 

--TimR



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon Mar  2 18:50:05 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:50:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..
Message-ID: <37521.1236016205@oricom.ca>


Good point Tim. Thanks

 On Mon 02/03/09 12:49 , Tim Ressel madhun2001 at yahoo.com sent:
> Jean-Pierre,
> 
> I like to use the notation (pun intended) of middle C = C4 = 261.6 Hz. This
> makes C0 = 16.35 Hz and C10 = 16742.4 Hz. Then I simply make the number be
> the volts: 4 volts = C4. This yields 0-10V = 16-16000 hz.
> This arrangement has an added math advantage when working with a processor:
> the conversion from volts to frequency is (2^Volts_in) * F_lowest. In other
> words, if you want to sample a CV and produce the corresponding frequency,
> raise 2 to the power of the CV voltage and multiply by the frequency you
> want 0 volts to be. 
> --TimR
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nlhttp://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Mon Mar  2 18:57:19 2009
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:57:19 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Gate/trigger splitter?
In-Reply-To: <OFC8C4F14A.CEBF9121-ONC125756D.004718D8-C125756D.0047004A@jeppesen.com>
References: <OFC8C4F14A.CEBF9121-ONC125756D.004718D8-C125756D.0047004A@jeppesen.com>
Message-ID: <49AC1DFF.7090909@sonic.net>

Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com wrote:
> synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 03/02/2009 01:45:28 PM:
>>
>> Today is a snowday here In NY and this gives me a little bit of time
>> to work on SDIY.
>>
>> A project I have wanted to build for awhile is a gate/trigger 
>> splitter and CV splitter. For the cv splitter i was planning on building 
> this:
>> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/cvdistributor.html
>>
>> and for the gate/trig splitter, well i cant find any schematics but 
>> I think its really a simple task.
>>
>> Am i correct in thinking that gates can be split in the same way as 
>> audio? (basically just using a 4 way multiple?)
> 
> 
> just a multiple. ray's circuit is for control voltages where you want to 
> avoid voltage drops due to load.

Which dovetails with a prior conversation - Ray's circuit has the 
resistor after the feedback, and is only 100 ohms.  Also, his final 
stage is inverting, so if the feedback was after the resistor, there 
would not be a direct connection to the opamp input.

-Dave



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Mon Mar  2 19:00:52 2009
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:00:52 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <38557.43873.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <38557.43873.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AC1ED4.60302@sonic.net>

Tim Ressel wrote:
> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>> I've seen a lot of broken equipment, but I don't
>> think I've ever seen a chip spontaneously burn out like
>> you describe. I'd start hunting for other faults to see
>> what caused it.
> 
> I agree.  While it is possible for an IC to undergo Spontaneous Semiconductor Combustion

Happens more often in drum machines.

:-)

-Dave



From rainer at buchty.net  Mon Mar  2 20:27:10 2009
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:27:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <20090302153835.6E5D.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090302072625.0208c858@mail.comcast.net>
	<20090302153835.6E5D.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903022025450.2358@archimobil>

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, ChristianH wrote:

> I don't know about temperature characteristics in this case, but a 
> simple offset could be compensated by measuring the all-notes-off 
> values.
>
> If there *is* an additional key contact, that is.

Why would you need that?

Just measure the idle value while writing "CALIBRATING KEYBOARD, DO NOT 
TOUCH KEYS" on the screen ;)

And if one idle value is too far off -- or suddenly starts growing 
rapidly into one or the other direction you know that someone 
pressed/released a key during the calibration phase.

Rainer



From rainer at buchty.net  Mon Mar  2 20:28:03 2009
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:28:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903020853n58757fe9s2c1efaef39df6435@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090302072625.0208c858@mail.comcast.net>
	<20090302153835.6E5D.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
	<cf1e1cb10903020853n58757fe9s2c1efaef39df6435@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903022027480.2358@archimobil>

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, cheater cheater wrote:

> Optical sensors don't work that well in smoky rooms though... so no 
> jarre fog i guess? This definitely disqualifies optical technology for 
> some people ;)

It all depends on the strength of the laser :)

Rainer


From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Mon Mar  2 20:31:06 2009
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragons)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:31:06 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: midi monitors was  PIC C libraries for MIDI apps..
In-Reply-To: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca>
References: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <49AC33FA.6020309@googlemail.com>

Hi,
just wondered if anyone could recommend a stand alone Midi monitor ?
I think someone on the diy list designed one of these several years ago, 
but I can't seem to find the details.
I saw the design at
http://www.ucapps.de/midimon.html
just wondered what everyone thought ?
regards Peter



Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> Anybody have links for MIDI C programming ?
> PIC oriented code would be a PLUS !!!
> I'm in need of MIDI receiving code techniques.
> 
> Thanks 
>


From derek at umatic.nl  Mon Mar  2 20:32:03 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:32:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <38557.43873.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <38557.43873.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AC3433.2080805@umatic.nl>

Hey Tim,

I think you nailed it. Looking back at video from last night's set, I 
noticed one VC input from my external matrix mixer with +/- 15V power 
that was halfway plugged into a module in my Doepfer rack (@ +/- 12V), 
meaning tip-signal of the external module was connected to ring-ground 
of a Doepfer module. I guess that would do it, although it's strange to 
me that a completely different module (and only that module) got 
burned...and I was still able to play the show with the mistake 
uncorrected.... Or maybe I should be thankful! ;-)

I'll have to be more careful in the future. When I was doing laptop 
performances, the worst that could happen was that the computer crashed...

best!
D.

Tim Ressel wrote:

> While it is possible for an IC to undergo Spontaneous Semiconductor Combustion, it is more likely something external to the IC caused the failure.  Was the faulted IC anywhere near an I/O jack?  Is it possible an external wiring issue sent an overvoltage to the IC?  


-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 160:
"Towards the insignificant"


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon Mar  2 21:23:08 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:23:08 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PIC C libraries for MIDI apps..
Message-ID: <34694.1236025388@oricom.ca>


Desperately waiting your next posts...

 On Mon 02/03/09 15:28 , Matthew Smith matt at smiffytech.com sent:
> Quoth Jean-Pierre Desrochers at 2009-03-03 04:03...
> > Anybody have links for MIDI C programming
> ?> PIC oriented code would be a PLUS !!!
> > I'm in need of MIDI receiving code
> techniques.
> I'm in the process of writing a state machine for processing MIDI note 
> on/off messages - see recent messages.
> 
> Now that Achim have put me on the right path, I will be correcting this
> in the next couple of days and will post it here.
> 
> My state machine is intended to be called by the UART receive interrupt
> of whatever device you are using - it could give you a starting point.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> M
> 
> -- 
> Matthew Smith
> Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
> Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffySkype:         msmiffy
> Twitter:       @smiffytech
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nlhttp://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 



From matt at smiffytech.com  Mon Mar  2 21:28:31 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 06:58:31 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] PIC C libraries for MIDI apps..
In-Reply-To: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca>
References: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <49AC416F.1010104@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Jean-Pierre Desrochers at 2009-03-03 04:03...
> Anybody have links for MIDI C programming ?
> PIC oriented code would be a PLUS !!!
> I'm in need of MIDI receiving code techniques.

I'm in the process of writing a state machine for processing MIDI note 
on/off messages - see recent messages.

Now that Achim have put me on the right path, I will be correcting this 
in the next couple of days and will post it here.

My state machine is intended to be called by the UART receive interrupt 
of whatever device you are using - it could give you a starting point.

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Mon Mar  2 22:28:22 2009
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:28:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <200903012151.52437.rtellason@verizon.net>
References: <0KFS006B3Y7RDK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>	<BAY144-W203AF3A5F34A420912A1A0C8A80@phx.gbl>	<BAY144-W53C39D022B96B840AE9CBC8A80@phx.gbl>
	<200903012151.52437.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <49AC4F76.9060108@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Roy J. Tellason skrev:
> On Sunday 01 March 2009 05:28:21 pm Dan Snazelle wrote:
>> anybody seen the microsoft Math 3.0? only 25 bucks... it says it helps you
>> learn as it solves the equations step by step...just wondered if it might
>> be useful.
> 
> Dunno about that one,  but OpenOffice has a "Math" included (in a separate and 
> distinct thing from the spreadsheet).,  Cost is $0.  I haven't played with it 
> yet,  though,  so I can't comment on it too much,  though I'm happy enough 
> with the rest of the package bits that I have used some.
> 

I haven't tried the Math package of OO 3.0 but the OO 2.4 is useable but 
has some annoying flaws.

I still think that Lyx has a better math engine and interface and then 
TeX/LaTeX should be even better but

I am nowdays supposed to be using OO 2.4 at work... amazed they decided 
on it, but I think it is a good decision.

Cheers,
Magnus


From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Mon Mar  2 22:38:08 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:38:08 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
In-Reply-To: <A0F0C6422B694E72A83A9E0DFCE94E3A@jhsilent>
References: <A0F0C6422B694E72A83A9E0DFCE94E3A@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>

I've got a few questions regarding VCOs. While a critical part of any
synthesizer, are there really a lot of differences? 

Here are a few personal preference questions:

1. What wave forms do you seem to use most often?

2. What sort of tracking do you like? Precise over a wide range? A little
less precise (does this give a more "old school" sound)?

3. How many octaves should a VCO track for what applications? EG: "Switched
on" performances of classic works versus ambient/trance/space type pieces.

4. Are the differences between different VCO's all that important? EG: is a
Brand "A" really any better worse than Brand "B" and what do you look for?

5. Do little imperfections in a wave form make it unsuitable for some
applications? EG: a bit of overshoot or ringing on a square wave?

6. Is it better sonically to have a bank of VCO's that are all the same
design or is it more versatile to have 6 different VCOs?

For background, I'm at a point now where I can actually make some music with
my setup and am quite pleased, but I'm curious where to go from here? I have
a good diversity in filters, and other wave shapers, but at present I have a
common denominator for VCOs, VCAs, and EGs. I am very interested in JH"s
"living" VCO, and some others I've seen out there which have different
selling points, like "15 octave tracking". But is 15 octave tracking needed
if I'm putting a Bach piano invention to tape?

To add to my confusion, on the MFOS site there are 6 different variations of
a VCO with some labeled updated and improved. What was really improved? I've
seen a lot of references to the ASM-1 VCO, too.

Understanding it is all in the ear of the beholder, I'm still curious what
your thoughts are VCO selection and functionality.

Thanks from a stumbling lost synth player wanna-be.

David




From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Mar  2 23:09:10 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:09:10 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Gate/trigger splitter?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W13094573D6718C4603EB14C8A90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0KFW00170G7B28@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

What's the purpose of the little RC's in the feedback loops of these
followers?

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:45 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] Gate/trigger splitter?
> 
> 
> 
> Today is a snowday here In NY and this gives me a little bit of time to
> work on SDIY.
> 
> A project I have wanted to build for awhile is a gate/trigger splitter and
> CV splitter. For the cv splitter i was planning on building this:
> 
> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/cvdistributor.html
> 
> and for the gate/trig splitter, well i cant find any schematics but I
> think its really a simple task.
> 
> Am i correct in thinking that gates can be split in the same way as audio?
> (basically just using a 4 way multiple?)
> 
> 
> just wanted to check before i get soldering.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
>  http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Mon Mar  2 23:20:33 2009
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:20:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <49AC1ED4.60302@sonic.net>
References: <38557.43873.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<49AC1ED4.60302@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <49AC5BB1.4030000@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Dave Manley skrev:
> Tim Ressel wrote:
>> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>>> I've seen a lot of broken equipment, but I don't
>>> think I've ever seen a chip spontaneously burn out like
>>> you describe. I'd start hunting for other faults to see
>>> what caused it.
>>
>> I agree.  While it is possible for an IC to undergo Spontaneous 
>> Semiconductor Combustion
> 
> Happens more often in drum machines.
> 
> :-)

Yes... couln't take all that beating all of the time... :-)

Cheers,
Magnus


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon Mar  2 23:20:38 2009
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:20:38 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning yellowing plastic
Message-ID: <20090302222037.GY63302@moo.sysabend.org>

This just came up on Slashdot.
http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/

Peroxide&Oxyclean in a gel.  Looks like they are getting some good results.
May be of interest for some old synth gear...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 23:40:33 2009
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:40:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning yellowing plastic
In-Reply-To: <20090302222037.GY63302@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20090302222037.GY63302@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <8F1C9644-D101-4063-886F-F49D61F08E98@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi Tom,

having seen this problem on Apple computers, mice, keyboards etc
it sounds almost too good to be true. The picture of the Osborne  
computer
casing in Fig.3 looks suspect as everything in the background has  
changed
colour as well !!, like a poor job with Photoshop.

Graham

On 2 Mar 2009, at 22:20, Tom Arnold wrote:

> This just came up on Slashdot.
> http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/
>
> Peroxide&Oxyclean in a gel.  Looks like they are getting some good  
> results.
> May be of interest for some old synth gear...
>
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
> - SynthGeek        -
> - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
> - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
> --------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Mon Mar  2 23:56:41 2009
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:56:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Gate/trigger splitter?
In-Reply-To: <0KFW00170G7B28@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KFW00170G7B28@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <DCE7530E-AE4D-45DC-A3A6-C9801966D06D@ntlworld.com>

David,

From:

>> A project I have wanted to build for awhile is a gate/trigger  
>> splitter and
>> CV splitter. For the cv splitter i was planning on building this:
>>
>> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/cvdistributor.html


You asked:

> What's the purpose of the little RC's in the feedback loops of these
> followers?

In theory it protects the input stage from excessive currents during  
latchup.  See IC Op-Amp Cookbook (pages 154 & 155 in my 3rd edition).

Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk





From dlmanley at sonic.net  Tue Mar  3 00:00:20 2009
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:00:20 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Gate/trigger splitter?
In-Reply-To: <0KFW00170G7B28@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KFW00170G7B28@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49AC6504.9050708@sonic.net>

I believe that's external compensation to prevent oscillation when 
there's a capacitive load.  For reference:

http://focus.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/ml/sloa079/sloa079.pdf
http://www.ecircuitcenter.com/Circuits/op_cload/op_cload.htm


-Dave

P.S. Just took a closer look at the MFOS circuit and realized my earlier 
comment was nonsense.  I'll blame it on being pre-coffee.  Hopefully 
this answer is closer to the target.

David G. Dixon wrote:
> What's the purpose of the little RC's in the feedback loops of these
> followers?

>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
>> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:45 AM
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: [sdiy] Gate/trigger splitter?
>>
>>
>>
>> Today is a snowday here In NY and this gives me a little bit of time to
>> work on SDIY.
>>
>> A project I have wanted to build for awhile is a gate/trigger splitter and
>> CV splitter. For the cv splitter i was planning on building this:
>>
>> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/cvdistributor.html
>>
>




From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Mar  3 00:41:15 2009
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:41:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
Message-ID: <25308224.1236037275584.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>1. What wave forms do you seem to use most often?

I use all the standards and wouldn't want to do without any of them. Having said that, I think the SEM only had sawtooth and pulse, and people love it; importantly, you could mix those waves in any proportion.


>2. What sort of tracking do you like? Precise over a wide range? A little
>less precise (does this give a more "old school" sound)?

Precise. Imprecision can be added.


>5. Do little imperfections in a wave form make it unsuitable for some
>applications? EG: a bit of overshoot or ringing on a square wave?

Accurate shapes are better for modulation, IMHO. For audio use, imperfect waves may be better.


>6. Is it better sonically to have a bank of VCO's that are all the same
>design or is it more versatile to have 6 different VCOs?

Interesting question. I'd go with 3 pairs of identical oscs, in the above scenario.

My devalued two cents,
John



From lists at studionebula.com  Tue Mar  3 01:00:00 2009
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:00:00 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning yellowing plastic
In-Reply-To: <8F1C9644-D101-4063-886F-F49D61F08E98@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <20090302222037.GY63302@moo.sysabend.org>
	<8F1C9644-D101-4063-886F-F49D61F08E98@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <010801c99b93$001231e0$1102a8c0@Mariko>

Hard to say about that photo. It could also just be that the photographer
doesn't know how to set the white balance on his camera. 

Personally I find it difficult to believe that you can bleach the yellowing
out of plastic, which is essentially what we're talking about here, no? But
there's a chemist on this list that should be able to tell us how well he'd
expect this to work...

--Adam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of 
> Graham Atkins
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:41 PM
> To: xyzzy at sysabend.org
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Cleaning yellowing plastic
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> having seen this problem on Apple computers, mice, keyboards 
> etc it sounds almost too good to be true. The picture of the 
> Osborne computer casing in Fig.3 looks suspect as everything 
> in the background has changed colour as well !!, like a poor 
> job with Photoshop.
> 
> Graham
> 
> On 2 Mar 2009, at 22:20, Tom Arnold wrote:
> 
> > This just came up on Slashdot.
> > http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/
> >
> > Peroxide&Oxyclean in a gel.  Looks like they are getting some good 
> > results.
> > May be of interest for some old synth gear...
> >
> > --
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
> > - SynthGeek        -
> > - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
> > - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
> > --------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From richard at skydancer.com  Tue Mar  3 01:24:49 2009
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 00:24:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
In-Reply-To: <005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>
References: <A0F0C6422B694E72A83A9E0DFCE94E3A@jhsilent>
	<005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>
Message-ID: <9BEB2FB1-BD59-4946-944B-36BBB3C0B648@skydancer.com>


On 2 Mar 2009, at 21:38, David Ingebretsen wrote:

> I've got a few questions regarding VCOs. While a critical part of any
> synthesizer, are there really a lot of differences?

Yes. Filters are over-rated. Oscillators are under-rated.

> Here are a few personal preference questions:

These really come down to clinical vs musical applications. The  
problem with clinical VCOs is that while randomness *can* be added,  
it usually isn't.

Let's say you have three very accurate VCOs. You want to add some  
random movement to them.

To do a good simulation of analog splurge, you're going to need to  
use three independent noise sources, with independent smoothing and  
filtering.

Most people either won't have those modules, or won't bother.

So - imperfect is definitely better. If you want clinical  
oscillators, you can always build them digitally, and make them do a  
lot more besides. They won't be cheap, but then neither are some of  
the commercial VCOs.

At the limit, the old Moog 901 is probably the poster child for  
crappiness from a design POV - incredibly poor tracking and  
temperature stability - but nothing else sounds quite like it.

It's a nice simple, cheap circuit too.

Richard




From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Mar  3 01:28:14 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:28:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
Message-ID: <200903030128.n231SErx017981@linux7.lan>

Pardon my deviation...

Richard Wentk <richard at skydancer.com> wrote:
>
>On 2 Mar 2009, at 21:38, David Ingebretsen wrote:
>
>> I've got a few questions regarding VCOs. While a critical part of any
>> synthesizer, are there really a lot of differences?
>
>Yes. Filters are over-rated. Oscillators are under-rated.

I agree.

>> Here are a few personal preference questions:
>
>These really come down to clinical vs musical applications. The  
>problem with clinical VCOs is that while randomness *can* be added,  
>it usually isn't.
>
>Let's say you have three very accurate VCOs. You want to add some  
>random movement to them.
>
>To do a good simulation of analog splurge, you're going to need to  
>use three independent noise sources, with independent smoothing and  
>filtering.
>
>Most people either won't have those modules, or won't bother.

This is a good point.  My own experience has been with very imperfect VCOs which I
really love.  

Then I jumped the shark into the digital world which can be ever so sterile.  I did
exactly what Richard just said in one synth design - and it was amazingly nice,
starting with perfectly sterile "oscillators" and then applying various amounts of
noise to modulate pitch, filtered different ways gives rise to some incredibly
subltly analog sounds.  The noise sources are truly independant (4 noise sources,
maximal length LFSR types 61, 62, 63 and 64 bits long) and each has it's own filter.
 It makes a HUGE difference.  However - this is a digital system (FPGA) where
complexity doesn't take up square feet.  But it does seem that imperfection is
somehow interesting and that imperfections can be modeled quite convincingly with
digital methods.

>So - imperfect is definitely better. If you want clinical  
>oscillators, you can always build them digitally, 

[GRIN]

>and make them do a  lot more besides. They won't be cheap, but then neither are 
>some of the commercial VCOs.

Not sure about the "won't be cheap" bit.  I've got an Avnet board with a 400K gate
Spartan-3A FPGA that supports some pretty heavy duty stuff - 8 voice poly synth, 4
"vco" per voice, SVF per voice, "vca" per voice...  at the time I bought it they
were $39.  Price went up to $49, but still...  With an FPGA, it's what _you_ design,
now how it's designed.

>At the limit, the old Moog 901 is probably the poster child for  
>crappiness from a design POV - incredibly poor tracking and  
>temperature stability - but nothing else sounds quite like it.
>
>It's a nice simple, cheap circuit too.
>
>Richard

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From synth1 at airmail.net  Tue Mar  3 01:46:16 2009
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:46:16 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
References: <A0F0C6422B694E72A83A9E0DFCE94E3A@jhsilent><005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>
	<9BEB2FB1-BD59-4946-944B-36BBB3C0B648@skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F2624E1E649E488BBED5687725FC8@curley>

> Yes. Filters are over-rated. Oscillators are under-rated.
>
>> Here are a few personal preference questions:
>

O' Rly? Well, listen to these, and then direct me to a VCO demo that sounds 
like these :)

http://synthtech.com/demo/atlas_dei.mp3

http://synthtech.com/demo/d_reed.mp3

http://synthtech.com/demo/motm_ren1.mp3


Paul S.
/it's the *filter*.........and the VCA with a *wisp* of VCO.





From davebr at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  3 02:38:03 2009
From: davebr at earthlink.net (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:38:03 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] PIC C libraries for MIDI apps..
In-Reply-To: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca>
References: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <0KFW00786PVDUEVT@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

I've done a complete MIDI implementation in assembly for AVR 
processors.  I've also done a complete implementation in basic for the AtomPro.

I've evolved it a bit but source code for my MIDI processor is on my page.
http://modularsynthesis.com/processor/processor.htm

Dave

At 09:33 AM 3/2/2009, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>Anybody have links for MIDI C programming ?
>PIC oriented code would be a PLUS !!!
>I'm in need of MIDI receiving code techniques.



From davebr at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  3 02:43:29 2009
From: davebr at earthlink.net (David Brown)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:43:29 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Re: midi monitors was  PIC C libraries for MIDI  apps..
In-Reply-To: <49AC33FA.6020309@googlemail.com>
References: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca> <49AC33FA.6020309@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <0KFW003V0Q4EF8KU@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>

I did one that's at http://modularsynthesis.com/display/display.htm

I later evolved this into my CVS display at 
http://modularsynthesis.com/cvs/cvs2.htm

I left the MIDI monitor code in there.  You just ground a pin and it 
becomes a monitor display.  It's setup for a 2x16 display but at the 
bottom of the page you can see a 2x40 display I did.

John Loffink was selling programmed AVRs with his display PCB.  On 
the CVS page there are schematics for how to modify this PCB for a 
stand-alone MIDI monitor.  They yahoo group is at 
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ComputerVoltageSources/

Dave

At 11:31 AM 3/2/2009, dragons wrote:
>just wondered if anyone could recommend a stand alone Midi monitor ?
>I think someone on the diy list designed one of these several years 
>ago, but I can't seem to find the details.



From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Tue Mar  3 02:56:52 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:56:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Is this for real???
In-Reply-To: <200903030128.n231SErx017981@linux7.lan>
References: <200903030128.n231SErx017981@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <001701c99ba3$52b0c1e0$f81245a0$@net>

Looking around for a 901 schematic, this came up.

Anyone heard of these studios?
Is this a real offer?

Anyone want to help me out and buy 1/1000th of a Moog :)

http://www.raverecords.com/studio/moog


David


David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121
www.CFandE.com

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net





From jdec at mindspring.com  Tue Mar  3 03:17:01 2009
From: jdec at mindspring.com (BrightBoy)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:17:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] Is this for real???
Message-ID: <9287668.1236046621379.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Yep.

This was for real but it was from like 10 to 12 years ago.

Before those owners, it was owned by the guy that ran Valhala Sounds
(sound data for synths back in the 80's/90's)

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Ingebretsen <dingebre at 3dphysics.net>
>Sent: Mar 2, 2009 8:56 PM
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] Is this for real???
>
>Looking around for a 901 schematic, this came up.
>
>Anyone heard of these studios?
>Is this a real offer?
>
>Anyone want to help me out and buy 1/1000th of a Moog :)
>
>http://www.raverecords.com/studio/moog
>
>
>David
>
>
>David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
>Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
>2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
>Salt Lake City, UT 84121
>www.CFandE.com
>
>801 733-5458 Office
>801 842-5451 Cell
>
>dingebre at CFandE.com
>dingebre at 3dphysics.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy





From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Tue Mar  3 03:45:49 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:45:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Is this for real???
In-Reply-To: <9287668.1236046621379.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <9287668.1236046621379.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001801c99baa$2951ebb0$7bf5c310$@net>

Interesting, quite random the page is still around.

David 

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of BrightBoy
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 7:17 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Is this for real???

Yep.

This was for real but it was from like 10 to 12 years ago.

Before those owners, it was owned by the guy that ran Valhala Sounds
(sound data for synths back in the 80's/90's)

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Ingebretsen <dingebre at 3dphysics.net>
>Sent: Mar 2, 2009 8:56 PM
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Subject: [sdiy] Is this for real???
>
>Looking around for a 901 schematic, this came up.
>
>Anyone heard of these studios?
>Is this a real offer?
>
>Anyone want to help me out and buy 1/1000th of a Moog :)
>
>http://www.raverecords.com/studio/moog
>
>
>David
>
>
>David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
>Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
>2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
>Salt Lake City, UT 84121
>www.CFandE.com
>
>801 733-5458 Office
>801 842-5451 Cell
>
>dingebre at CFandE.com
>dingebre at 3dphysics.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Tue Mar  3 07:56:44 2009
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 07:56:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] PIC C libraries for MIDI apps..
In-Reply-To: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca>
References: <56259.1236015218@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A667FBBB525@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

The old MIDI Kompendium showed some MIDI code in C.

Ciao
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:34 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] PIC C libraries for MIDI apps..


Anybody have links for MIDI C programming ?
PIC oriented code would be a PLUS !!!
I'm in need of MIDI receiving code techniques.

Thanks 


 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Tue Mar  3 09:03:38 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 09:03:38 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Gate/trigger splitter?
Message-ID: <61972.81.58.240.234.1236067418.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


Neil Johnson schreef:
> David,
 >> What's the purpose of the little RC's in the feedback loops of these
>> followers?
>
> In theory it protects the input stage from excessive currents during
> latchup.  See IC Op-Amp Cookbook (pages 154 & 155 in my 3rd edition).

Would there be any risk of latchup in this circuit?

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From william.forbes at schaeffler.com  Tue Mar  3 09:15:05 2009
From: william.forbes at schaeffler.com (Forbes, William  ALGLSG-LXES)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:15:05 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..
In-Reply-To: <939383.89420.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <58182.1235747856@oricom.ca>
	<939383.89420.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4504355AEBB7C44C990CE96EF89A21D4ECA7D5@uk021010.emea.luk.com>

Hi,

I'm always confused by the octave numbering.
I've always assumed that Middle C is MIDI note 60 = 261.63Hz and A above
middle C is 440.00Hz

This would tend to make MIDI note number 0 five octave lower than middle
C at 8.18Hz
I've always assumed that this octave (MIDI notes 0 to 11) was octave 0
and thus Middle C was C5

Is my understanding correct?

What is the correct numbering?

I also assume the numbering goes

C0-B0 then C1-B1 etc.

Cheers
Bill. 

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tim Ressel
Sent: 02 March 2009 17:49
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..

Jean-Pierre,

I like to use the notation (pun intended) of middle C = C4 = 261.6 Hz.
This makes C0 = 16.35 Hz and C10 = 16742.4 Hz. Then I simply make the
number be the volts: 4 volts = C4. This yields 0-10V = 16-16000 hz.

This arrangement has an added math advantage when working with a
processor: the conversion from volts to frequency is (2^Volts_in) *
F_lowest. In other words, if you want to sample a CV and produce the
corresponding frequency, raise 2 to the power of the CV voltage and
multiply by the frequency you want 0 volts to be. 

--TimR

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Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
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From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Tue Mar  3 09:41:09 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 19:41:09 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..
References: <58182.1235747856@oricom.ca><939383.89420.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4504355AEBB7C44C990CE96EF89A21D4ECA7D5@uk021010.emea.luk.com>
Message-ID: <080624A9F9284FB981240DC8B1E3CF98@OFFICE>

The General MIDI standard organized this musical chaos by decreeing that all 
GM -compliant patches must play an A440 pitch in response to a MIDI command 
that included the MIDI note number 69. All other MIDI note numbers were 
calibrated according to this standard so that the same note number would 
play the same note on any GM-compliant sound module, regardless of who 
manufactured it. Drum sounds were similarly standardized; with 48 MIDI note 
numbers standardized to correspond with 48 particular drum sounds.

I found this extract for the Octaves:-

  The MIDI (Musical Instrument Device Interface) standards unfortunately do 
not designate octaves. The standard merely designates that Middle C is note 
number 60. Thus, MIDI users have had to create their own designation systems 
using the MIDI numbering system. Understandably, the most logical octave 
designations were the existing designations superimposed over the MIDI 
numbering system. There are at least two accepted octave designation systems 
for the MIDI numbers. Part of the problem stems from the fact that the notes 
of the keyboard (or any other instrument) are no longer a limitation in the 
range of pitches available.
  One version of the MIDI system uses C3 to designate Middle C (MIDI note 
60, 261.626 Hz). That means that the octave designation for MIDI note "0" 
would be "-2" or notated as C-2.

  Another version of the MIDI system uses the lowest note available to the 
MIDI system (MIDI note 1, 8.176 Hz) to designate Octave "0" with the 
notation of C0. In this system, Middle C (MIDI note 60, 261.626 Hz) is 
octave 5 with the notation of C5.
I tend to use the last one (at the moment)

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Forbes, William ALGLSG-LXES" <william.forbes at schaeffler.com>
To: <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..


> Hi,
>
> I'm always confused by the octave numbering.
> I've always assumed that Middle C is MIDI note 60 = 261.63Hz and A above
> middle C is 440.00Hz
>
> This would tend to make MIDI note number 0 five octave lower than middle
> C at 8.18Hz
> I've always assumed that this octave (MIDI notes 0 to 11) was octave 0
> and thus Middle C was C5
>
> Is my understanding correct?
>
> What is the correct numbering?
>
> I also assume the numbering goes
>
> C0-B0 then C1-B1 etc.
>
> Cheers
> Bill.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tim Ressel
> Sent: 02 March 2009 17:49
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..
>
> Jean-Pierre,
>
> I like to use the notation (pun intended) of middle C = C4 = 261.6 Hz.
> This makes C0 = 16.35 Hz and C10 = 16742.4 Hz. Then I simply make the
> number be the volts: 4 volts = C4. This yields 0-10V = 16-16000 hz.
>
> This arrangement has an added math advantage when working with a
> processor: the conversion from volts to frequency is (2^Volts_in) *
> F_lowest. In other words, if you want to sample a CV and produce the
> corresponding frequency, raise 2 to the power of the CV voltage and
> multiply by the frequency you want 0 volts to be.
>
> --TimR
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Tue Mar  3 11:35:14 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:35:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
In-Reply-To: <005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>
References: <A0F0C6422B694E72A83A9E0DFCE94E3A@jhsilent>
	<005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>
Message-ID: <49AD07E2.5060708@mnet-online.de>

Hi David

> 1. What wave forms do you seem to use most often?
If available I use the non standard waveforms the same often as the 
standard pulse / saw / tri (this is my experience e.g. from the ESQ1).

> 2. What sort of tracking do you like? Precise over a wide range? A little
> less precise (does this give a more "old school" sound)?
Though I like the "vividness" of lesse precise VCOs, I finally was 
educated by the pain of mistuned VCOs while lifesets, that a precise VCO 
is definitely necessary *for* *me*. And what the heck: my Roland SH-2 
has two VCOs which are precise over 8 octavas - there doesn't have to be 
an "either or"; it simply has to be an "and".

> 3. How many octaves should a VCO track for what applications? EG: "Switched
> on" performances of classic works versus ambient/trance/space type pieces.
At least 5 octaves reliably from 80 Hz to 2500Hz.

> 4. Are the differences between different VCO's all that important? EG: is a
> Brand "A" really any better worse than Brand "B" and what do you look for?
I look mainly for the usability of a synth. The best VCO is worthless 
with a badly designed frontpanel.

> 5. Do little imperfections in a wave form make it unsuitable for some
> applications? EG: a bit of overshoot or ringing on a square wave?
In my music there are 5% to 10% where this is relevant. For these I use 
either digital sound generation (Nord Modular) or some dedicated synth.

> 6. Is it better sonically to have a bank of VCO's that are all the same
> design or is it more versatile to have 6 different VCOs?
Until now I have in my modular setup pairs of three different VCOs.


Florian.


From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Tue Mar  3 11:48:53 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:48:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
In-Reply-To: <4A8F2624E1E649E488BBED5687725FC8@curley>
References: <A0F0C6422B694E72A83A9E0DFCE94E3A@jhsilent><005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>	<9BEB2FB1-BD59-4946-944B-36BBB3C0B648@skydancer.com>
	<4A8F2624E1E649E488BBED5687725FC8@curley>
Message-ID: <49AD0B15.4020306@mnet-online.de>

Hi Paul


> O' Rly? Well, listen to these, and then direct me to a VCO demo that 
> sounds like these :)
> 
> http://synthtech.com/demo/atlas_dei.mp3
> 
> http://synthtech.com/demo/d_reed.mp3
> 
> http://synthtech.com/demo/motm_ren1.mp3
> Paul S.
> /it's the *filter*.........and the VCA with a *wisp* of VCO.
Sorry, but I disagree. All these examples are done with a (intended) 
usage of "oscillator" that corresponds to very imprecise oscillators. 
These imprecise oscillators are extremely(!) important for the character 
of these recordings.

The filter is a lot, but a filter which is sheer beauty with osc A can 
sound boring flat with osc B (e.g. 3379 in Oberheims and Ensoniqs)

Florian


From rainer at buchty.net  Tue Mar  3 12:27:48 2009
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:27:48 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
In-Reply-To: <49AD0B15.4020306@mnet-online.de>
References: <A0F0C6422B694E72A83A9E0DFCE94E3A@jhsilent><005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>
	<9BEB2FB1-BD59-4946-944B-36BBB3C0B648@skydancer.com>
	<4A8F2624E1E649E488BBED5687725FC8@curley>
	<49AD0B15.4020306@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903031225010.6083@i82pc05>

On Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Florian Anwander wrote:

> The filter is a lot, but a filter which is sheer beauty with osc A can 
> sound boring flat with osc B (e.g. 3379 in Oberheims and Ensoniqs)

I still wonder why that is and how this relates to the tuning process 
which is performed in the early Ensoniqs, even avoiding oscillation.

Rainer



From srmaietta at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  3 15:18:58 2009
From: srmaietta at yahoo.com (Steve Maietta)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 06:18:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy]
	source for many, small, simple PCB's  ??  for educational use
Message-ID: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


All,
  I teach HS level technology here in the US and do a unit on electricity/electronics.  I want to get a whole bunch (200 perhaps) small(around 2"x2") PCB's made and would like to know the cheapest source.  Single sided, no solder mask, no through plating - whatever it takes to keep the cost down.
These would be general purpose boards for 555's and include small area for other components.  I might also want to do a similar thing for an op amp.
I know I could etch myself a lot of them, but the drilling would be a killer, and I want my students to have sucessful projects, not learn the intricacies of drilling with .030 drill bits...

I know you guys have used lots of places for your projects.. Any suggestions/ideas for cheap PCB fab?   Or should I just use perfboard..?

thanks
~Steve


      


From blacet at blacet.com  Tue Mar  3 15:44:23 2009
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 06:44:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy]  source for many, small,
	simple PCB's  ??  for educational use
In-Reply-To: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2f21239846b9e91245b4010f54c23b73.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>

Hi Steve:

I guess that you have already considered plug in breadboards? More
expensive but reuseable and not limited to any one circuit.

There are a ton of US PCB houses and the prices are are probably very
similar. We use Excel circuits and they are fine on price and customer
service.

http://www.excelelectro.com/

>
> All,
>   I teach HS level technology here in the US and do a unit on
> electricity/electronics.  I want to get a whole bunch (200 perhaps)
> small(around 2"x2") PCB's made and would like to know the cheapest
> source.  Single sided, no solder mask, no through plating - whatever it
> takes to keep the cost down.
> These would be general purpose boards for 555's and include small area for
> other components.  I might also want to do a similar thing for an op amp.
> I know I could etch myself a lot of them, but the drilling would be a
> killer, and I want my students to have sucessful projects, not learn the
> intricacies of drilling with .030 drill bits...
>
> I know you guys have used lots of places for your projects.. Any
> suggestions/ideas for cheap PCB fab?   Or should I just use perfboard..?
>
> thanks
> ~Steve
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


-- 
John Blacet



From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Mar  3 15:53:04 2009
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:53:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy]  source for many, small, simple PCB's  ??  for
	educational use
In-Reply-To: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200903031601.n23G1Mkb013780@dropmix.xs4all.nl>


>... I want to get ... and would like to know the cheapest source....

The *cheapest* source? Or, a source with excellent prices and reliable service?

Magic Smoke uses PCBCart.com and has been satisfied with them. (As 
far as I know, anyway. Tim Servo actually handles all of that.)

John



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Mar  3 15:56:55 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:56:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 	source for many, small, simple PCB's  ??  for educational
	use
In-Reply-To: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AD4537.4050005@burnit.co.uk>

(Amongst other things) I run a small business manufacturing/selling 
psychometric measuring devices.  We tend to get a couple of hundred 
small boards made at a time and have always used European manufacturers 
until recently when we tried PCB Cart.  We were most impressed by the 
quality and customer service, to say nothing of their willingness to be 
'creative' with declaring the order value for customs.  And was 
significantly cheaper than any European suppliers ...

http://www.pcbcart.com

Seb


Steve Maietta wrote:
> All,
>   I teach HS level technology here in the US and do a unit on electricity/electronics.  I want to get a whole bunch (200 perhaps) small(around 2"x2") PCB's made and would like to know the cheapest source.  Single sided, no solder mask, no through plating - whatever it takes to keep the cost down.
> These would be general purpose boards for 555's and include small area for other components.  I might also want to do a similar thing for an op amp.
> I know I could etch myself a lot of them, but the drilling would be a killer, and I want my students to have sucessful projects, not learn the intricacies of drilling with .030 drill bits...
>
> I know you guys have used lots of places for your projects.. Any suggestions/ideas for cheap PCB fab?   Or should I just use perfboard..?
>
> thanks
> ~Steve
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>   




From derek at umatic.nl  Tue Mar  3 16:06:05 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:06:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 	source for many, small, simple PCB's  ??  for educational
	use
In-Reply-To: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AD475D.1040606@umatic.nl>

Hi Steve,

One thought would be to do this "poor man's SMD" style, i.e. don't 
reverse the tracks, put them on the top of the board and solder normal 
components directly to the tracks. Not quite a sturdy as through-hole 
perhaps, but quick and dirty. Would also allow them to design their own 
boards with (possibly even hand-drawn) artwork for instant etching, etc etc.

Another idea is perfboard with Ciat-Lonbarde style "paper circuits"... 
which are basically a paper template laid over the perfboard which shows 
how to place components and make connections:

http://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/paper/index.html

Very sculptural-looking when the perfboard is omitted, see photos lower 
down the page ;-)

best!
Derek

Steve Maietta wrote:
> All,
>   I teach HS level technology here in the US and do a unit on electricity/electronics.  I want to get a whole bunch (200 perhaps) small(around 2"x2") PCB's made and would like to know the cheapest source.  Single sided, no solder mask, no through plating - whatever it takes to keep the cost down.
> These would be general purpose boards for 555's and include small area for other components.  I might also want to do a similar thing for an op amp.
> I know I could etch myself a lot of them, but the drilling would be a killer, and I want my students to have sucessful projects, not learn the intricacies of drilling with .030 drill bits...

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 69:
"Feed the recording back out of the medium"


From synth1 at airmail.net  Tue Mar  3 16:12:14 2009
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 09:12:14 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
References: <A0F0C6422B694E72A83A9E0DFCE94E3A@jhsilent><005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>	<9BEB2FB1-BD59-4946-944B-36BBB3C0B648@skydancer.com>
	<4A8F2624E1E649E488BBED5687725FC8@curley>
	<49AD0B15.4020306@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <5CB02FC8576B4F91AC49D380B8104BB9@curley>

> Sorry, but I disagree. All these examples are done with a (intended) usage 
> of "oscillator" that corresponds to very imprecise oscillators. These 
> imprecise oscillators are extremely(!) important for the character of 
> these recordings.
>

Well, that's got to be the first time a MOTM-300 VCO has been called 
'imprecise' :)

Paul S.



From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Tue Mar  3 16:13:31 2009
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:13:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 	source for many, small,
	simple PCB's  ??  for educational	use
In-Reply-To: <49AD4537.4050005@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>

synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 03/03/2009 03:56:55 PM:
> (Amongst other things) I run a small business manufacturing/selling 
> psychometric measuring devices.  We tend to get a couple of hundred 
> small boards made at a time and have always used European manufacturers 
> until recently when we tried PCB Cart.  We were most impressed by the 
> quality and customer service, to say nothing of their willingness to be 
> 'creative' with declaring the order value for customs.  And was 
> significantly cheaper than any European suppliers ...
> 
> http://www.pcbcart.com
> 
> Seb

i can only confirm what seb said. the communication is very very good, 
nice and friendly. they are willing to listen to you, that can't be 
overestimated today, IMHO.

payment is more than easy using paypal. and i made the same experience as 
seb with the declaration, at least when i ordered just two prototypes 
recently.

at these prices you won't go without soldermask and silkscreen...

cheers,
matthias
___
www.modular.fonik.de

> 
> 
> Steve Maietta wrote:
> > All,
> >   I teach HS level technology here in the US and do a unit on 
> electricity/electronics.  I want to get a whole bunch (200 perhaps) 
> small(around 2"x2") PCB's made and would like to know the cheapest 
> source.  Single sided, no solder mask, no through plating - whatever
> it takes to keep the cost down.
> > These would be general purpose boards for 555's and include small 
> area for other components.  I might also want to do a similar thing 
> for an op amp.
> > I know I could etch myself a lot of them, but the drilling would 
> be a killer, and I want my students to have sucessful projects, not 
> learn the intricacies of drilling with .030 drill bits...
> >
> > I know you guys have used lots of places for your projects.. Any 
> suggestions/ideas for cheap PCB fab?   Or should I just use perfboard..?
> >
> > thanks
> > ~Steve
> >
> >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Tue Mar  3 18:49:49 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 12:49:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 	source for many, small, simple PCB's  ??  for educational
	use
In-Reply-To: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>
Message-ID: <49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>

I have used PCB Cart alot. The customer service is great and the price 
is, as all things from China, lower then one would expect. HOWEVER, I 
would say the quality is just OK. I have had many boards where the 
soldermask or silkscreen is offset and covers portion of the pads, or is 
spotty (characters not legible). I have also had depanelization where a 
good chunk of the board is cut off, I have even lost pads this way (with 
all traces, pads well within accepted limits of PCBCart).

With all that in mind, I have been considering moving all of my parts to 
a US based PCB house (Advanced Circuits). The cost increase ranges from 
$2.00 to $10.00 per unit. The political climate in China is starting to 
disturb me, and we need the work here in the States.

TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER, Advanced Circuits offers the barebones PCBs 
which are very affordable. No soldermask, no silkscreen. Ship quickly. 
Might be nice for your purposes.

Tony


Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com wrote:
> synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl wrote on 03/03/2009 03:56:55 PM:
>   
>> (Amongst other things) I run a small business manufacturing/selling 
>> psychometric measuring devices.  We tend to get a couple of hundred 
>> small boards made at a time and have always used European manufacturers 
>> until recently when we tried PCB Cart.  We were most impressed by the 
>> quality and customer service, to say nothing of their willingness to be 
>> 'creative' with declaring the order value for customs.  And was 
>> significantly cheaper than any European suppliers ...
>>
>> http://www.pcbcart.com
>>
>> Seb
>>     
>
> i can only confirm what seb said. the communication is very very good, 
> nice and friendly. they are willing to listen to you, that can't be 
> overestimated today, IMHO.
>
> payment is more than easy using paypal. and i made the same experience as 
> seb with the declaration, at least when i ordered just two prototypes 
> recently.
>
> at these prices you won't go without soldermask and silkscreen...
>
> cheers,
> matthias
> ___
> www.modular.fonik.de
>
>   
>> Steve Maietta wrote:
>>     
>>> All,
>>>   I teach HS level technology here in the US and do a unit on 
>>>       
>> electricity/electronics.  I want to get a whole bunch (200 perhaps) 
>> small(around 2"x2") PCB's made and would like to know the cheapest 
>> source.  Single sided, no solder mask, no through plating - whatever
>> it takes to keep the cost down.
>>     
>>> These would be general purpose boards for 555's and include small 
>>>       
>> area for other components.  I might also want to do a similar thing 
>> for an op amp.
>>     
>>> I know I could etch myself a lot of them, but the drilling would 
>>>       
>> be a killer, and I want my students to have sucessful projects, not 
>> learn the intricacies of drilling with .030 drill bits...
>>     
>>> I know you guys have used lots of places for your projects.. Any 
>>>       
>> suggestions/ideas for cheap PCB fab?   Or should I just use perfboard..?
>>     
>>> thanks
>>> ~Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Mar  3 18:58:15 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:58:15 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..
In-Reply-To: <080624A9F9284FB981240DC8B1E3CF98@OFFICE>
References: <58182.1235747856@oricom.ca><939383.89420.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4504355AEBB7C44C990CE96EF89A21D4ECA7D5@uk021010.emea.luk.com>
	<080624A9F9284FB981240DC8B1E3CF98@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <8A77299E-C39E-42F3-AE0B-7ACAF72D75D6@electricdruid.net>

Laurie's dead right - there is no standard for octave numbering, only  
note numbering. Stick with middle C = note 60, Concert A = note 69  
and you'll be fine.

T.


On 3 Mar 2009, at 08:41, Laurie Biddulph wrote:

> The General MIDI standard organized this musical chaos by decreeing  
> that all GM -compliant patches must play an A440 pitch in response  
> to a MIDI command that included the MIDI note number 69. All other  
> MIDI note numbers were calibrated according to this standard so  
> that the same note number would play the same note on any GM- 
> compliant sound module, regardless of who manufactured it. Drum  
> sounds were similarly standardized; with 48 MIDI note numbers  
> standardized to correspond with 48 particular drum sounds.
>
> I found this extract for the Octaves:-
>
>  The MIDI (Musical Instrument Device Interface) standards  
> unfortunately do not designate octaves. The standard merely  
> designates that Middle C is note number 60. Thus, MIDI users have  
> had to create their own designation systems using the MIDI  
> numbering system. Understandably, the most logical octave  
> designations were the existing designations superimposed over the  
> MIDI numbering system. There are at least two accepted octave  
> designation systems for the MIDI numbers. Part of the problem stems  
> from the fact that the notes of the keyboard (or any other  
> instrument) are no longer a limitation in the range of pitches  
> available.
>  One version of the MIDI system uses C3 to designate Middle C (MIDI  
> note 60, 261.626 Hz). That means that the octave designation for  
> MIDI note "0" would be "-2" or notated as C-2.
>
>  Another version of the MIDI system uses the lowest note available  
> to the MIDI system (MIDI note 1, 8.176 Hz) to designate Octave "0"  
> with the notation of C0. In this system, Middle C (MIDI note 60,  
> 261.626 Hz) is octave 5 with the notation of C5.
> I tend to use the last one (at the moment)
>
> Best Regards
>
> (Mr) Laurie Biddulph
> Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
> Mobile: 0400 257 645
>
> Elby Designs
> ABN: 70 022 727 605
> http://www.elby-designs.com
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and  
> intended for the addressee only.
> If you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or  
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> ensure that all copies of this e-mail and any files transmitted  
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> Any views or opinions represented in this e-mail are solely those  
> of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Elby Designs.
> Although this e-mail and its attachments have been scanned for the  
> presence of computer viruses, Elby Designs will not be liable for  
> any losses as a result of any viruses being passed on.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Forbes, William ALGLSG-LXES"  
> <william.forbes at schaeffler.com>
> To: <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm always confused by the octave numbering.
>> I've always assumed that Middle C is MIDI note 60 = 261.63Hz and A  
>> above
>> middle C is 440.00Hz
>>
>> This would tend to make MIDI note number 0 five octave lower than  
>> middle
>> C at 8.18Hz
>> I've always assumed that this octave (MIDI notes 0 to 11) was  
>> octave 0
>> and thus Middle C was C5
>>
>> Is my understanding correct?
>>
>> What is the correct numbering?
>>
>> I also assume the numbering goes
>>
>> C0-B0 then C1-B1 etc.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Bill.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tim Ressel
>> Sent: 02 March 2009 17:49
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI2CV & Arpeggio question..
>>
>> Jean-Pierre,
>>
>> I like to use the notation (pun intended) of middle C = C4 = 261.6  
>> Hz.
>> This makes C0 = 16.35 Hz and C10 = 16742.4 Hz. Then I simply make the
>> number be the volts: 4 volts = C4. This yields 0-10V = 16-16000 hz.
>>
>> This arrangement has an added math advantage when working with a
>> processor: the conversion from volts to frequency is (2^Volts_in) *
>> F_lowest. In other words, if you want to sample a CV and produce the
>> corresponding frequency, raise 2 to the power of the CV voltage and
>> multiply by the frequency you want 0 volts to be.
>>
>> --TimR
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From derek at umatic.nl  Tue Mar  3 19:17:35 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:17:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 	source for many, small, simple PCB's  ??  for educational
	use
In-Reply-To: <49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>
	<49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>
Message-ID: <49AD743F.4000505@umatic.nl>

Hi Tony,

how is PCB Cart, or PCB houses in general, about replacing boards where 
there are such obvious errors? Or do you just over-order by a certain 
percentage and hope that you get the run you need in the end?

D.

Tony Rolando wrote:
> I have used PCB Cart alot. The customer service is great and the price 
> is, as all things from China, lower then one would expect. HOWEVER, I 
> would say the quality is just OK. I have had many boards where the 
> soldermask or silkscreen is offset and covers portion of the pads, or is 
> spotty (characters not legible). I have also had depanelization where a 
> good chunk of the board is cut off, I have even lost pads this way (with 
> all traces, pads well within accepted limits of PCBCart).

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 157:
"Think
- inside the work
- outside the work"


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Mar  3 20:27:59 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:27:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 	source for many, small, simple PCB's  ??  for educational
	use
In-Reply-To: <49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>
	<49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>
Message-ID: <49AD84BF.20103@burnit.co.uk>

Tony Rolando wrote:
> I have used PCB Cart alot. The customer service is great and the price 
> is, as all things from China, lower then one would expect. HOWEVER, I 
> would say the quality is just OK. I have had many boards where the 
> soldermask or silkscreen is offset and covers portion of the pads, or 
> is spotty (characters not legible). I have also had depanelization 
> where a good chunk of the board is cut off, I have even lost pads this 
> way (with all traces, pads well within accepted limits of PCBCart).
>

I should add that the boards I have been getting from PCBCart are all 
thru-hole components and thus on the large side.  I haven't got anything 
from them with tiny SMD footprints and high density routing.  I was 
considering getting my Digi-Mod boards here, but from what Tony has said 
I guess I'll stick with tried and tested European manufacturers for 
this, as it's a very high density board.

Might also be worth looking at Gold Phoenix - this is who Batch PCB 
use.  Anyone have experience of the quality for high-density layouts 
from here?
http://www.goldphoenixpcb.biz

Seb





From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Tue Mar  3 22:32:32 2009
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 13:32:32 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] source for many, small,
	simple PCB's  ??  for educational use
In-Reply-To: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <797552.88716.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090303213232.GA63302@moo.sysabend.org>

On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 06:18:58AM -0800, Steve Maietta wrote:
> 
> All,
>   I teach HS level technology here in the US and do a unit on electricity/electronics.  I want to get a whole bunch (200 perhaps) small(around 2"x2") PCB's made and would like to know the cheapest source.  Single sided, no solder mask, no through plating - whatever it takes to keep the cost down.

IMHO that has Olimex written all over it...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Mar  3 22:43:55 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:43:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on VCO's
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903031225010.6083@i82pc05>
References: <A0F0C6422B694E72A83A9E0DFCE94E3A@jhsilent><005f01c99b7f$2e3d4910$8ab7db30$@net>
	<9BEB2FB1-BD59-4946-944B-36BBB3C0B648@skydancer.com>
	<4A8F2624E1E649E488BBED5687725FC8@curley>
	<49AD0B15.4020306@mnet-online.de>
	<alpine.DEB.1.10.0903031225010.6083@i82pc05>
Message-ID: <55C359E7-7FD4-4D33-B7DF-071B727A8B0C@electricdruid.net>


On 3 Mar 2009, at 11:27, Rainer Buchty wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Florian Anwander wrote:
>
>> The filter is a lot, but a filter which is sheer beauty with osc A  
>> can
>> sound boring flat with osc B (e.g. 3379 in Oberheims and Ensoniqs)
>
> I still wonder why that is and how this relates to the tuning process
> which is performed in the early Ensoniqs, even avoiding oscillation.

Sorry for the ignorance, but which Oberheim used the 3379? I know the  
ESQ1 and SQ-80 did, but I didn't know Oberheim used that same chip.

Thanks!
T.




From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Tue Mar  3 22:56:23 2009
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 14:56:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 	source for many, small,
	simple PCB's  ??  for educational use
In-Reply-To: <49AD84BF.20103@burnit.co.uk>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>
	<49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com> <49AD84BF.20103@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <89F58BD4-783C-461F-B8E9-CDAE18804CE2@cox.net>


On Mar 3, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Seb Francis wrote:
>
> Might also be worth looking at Gold Phoenix - this is who Batch PCB  
> use.  Anyone have experience of the quality for high-density layouts  
> from here?

BatchPCB / Gold Phoenix quality is not excellent, just OK. I've seen  
registration issues between pads & solder mask on some boards of up to  
5mil. I've had traces shorted to surrounding ground plane with defects  
that weren't in the gerbers. At this point I do quick continuity &  
short checks on all power supplies before starting to solder.

Eric



From matt at smiffytech.com  Tue Mar  3 23:21:46 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 08:51:46 +1030
Subject: [sdiy]  source for many, small, simple PCB's  ??  for educational
	use
In-Reply-To: <89F58BD4-783C-461F-B8E9-CDAE18804CE2@cox.net>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>	<49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>
	<49AD84BF.20103@burnit.co.uk>
	<89F58BD4-783C-461F-B8E9-CDAE18804CE2@cox.net>
Message-ID: <49ADAD7A.9060602@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Eric Brombaugh at 2009-03-04 08:26...
> BatchPCB / Gold Phoenix quality is not excellent, just OK. I've seen  
> registration issues between pads & solder mask on some boards of up to  
> 5mil. I've had traces shorted to surrounding ground plane with defects  
> that weren't in the gerbers. At this point I do quick continuity &  
> short checks on all power supplies before starting to solder.

Can anyone comment on the quality of Futurlec boards in this respect? 
Bear in mind that I'm one of these weird folks who likes SMDs ;-) 
(Futurlec appears to be the easiest/cheapest source for Australia.)

Also wondering how they handle panelisation.  I asked them but the 
cryptic response I got left me none the wiser.  That is, if I ask for 10 
boards 40mm by 50mm to I get 10 individual boards or do I get a single 
board and then have to find someone with a really big guillotine?

Cheers

M


-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Mar  4 00:16:44 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 23:16:44 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 	source for many, small, simple PCB's  ??  for educational
	use
In-Reply-To: <89F58BD4-783C-461F-B8E9-CDAE18804CE2@cox.net>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>
	<49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com> <49AD84BF.20103@burnit.co.uk>
	<89F58BD4-783C-461F-B8E9-CDAE18804CE2@cox.net>
Message-ID: <49ADBA5C.9020800@burnit.co.uk>

Eric Brombaugh wrote:
>
> On Mar 3, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Seb Francis wrote:
>>
>> Might also be worth looking at Gold Phoenix - this is who Batch PCB 
>> use.  Anyone have experience of the quality for high-density layouts 
>> from here?
>
> BatchPCB / Gold Phoenix quality is not excellent, just OK. I've seen 
> registration issues between pads & solder mask on some boards of up to 
> 5mil. I've had traces shorted to surrounding ground plane with defects 
> that weren't in the gerbers. At this point I do quick continuity & 
> short checks on all power supplies before starting to solder.
>

I guess I'll stick to Eurocircuits (www.thepcbshop.com / 
www.eurocircuits.com) for the Digi-Mod boards then ... never had any 
problem with the quality from them.

Seb





From cheater00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 01:29:12 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 00:29:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ensoniq patent, was: distance meter for keyboard, was:
	Where to get special white keys?
In-Reply-To: <908a4c120903021005g1c94c587pfe759e3ab1eef834@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090302072625.0208c858@mail.comcast.net>
	<20090302153835.6E5D.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
	<cf1e1cb10903020853n58757fe9s2c1efaef39df6435@mail.gmail.com>
	<908a4c120903020939i1e94a22dvfc6e9a655b740064@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10903020941i4586202fic8c7b81e7299f75a@mail.gmail.com>
	<908a4c120903021005g1c94c587pfe759e3ab1eef834@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903031629q1c159f0ara189689b9b72b989@mail.gmail.com>

Amos,
I am slightly partial against using force for poly AT. It makes it
somewhat difficult to use. I think an additional distance of the key;s
throw which requires a bit more pressure (so that you can notice when
you starts) but still allows the key to actually travel would be much
better. This is why I'm mostly looking for a distance meter rather
than a pressure sensor.

I'm actually not sure of any classical instruments that use the key
*displacement* to add a level of expression. Do you guys know any?

Cheers
D.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Amos <controlvoltage at gmail.com> wrote:
> google "Quantum-Tunneling Composite"...
> a rather novel force-to-voltage transducing polymer.? Neat stuff by the
> looks, but I haven't played with it myself yet.
> http://www.cui.com/srchresults.asp?catky=560054&subcatky=227398
>
> Need to get some in soon... could be all sorts of nifty haptic interfaces
> via this stuff.
>
> -Amos
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 12:41 PM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> What is QTC, Amos?
>>
>> Also, as far as shutter schemes are concerned: those can skip. This
>> would be very detrimental to the key's performance, as it would
>> pretend the key is depressed less than it really is. This means that
>> the key actually being fully depressed would never register.
>> Intermittent fault.
>>
>> D.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Amos <controlvoltage at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > there's the option of an infrared emitter and phototransistor pair, with
>> > a
>> > moving vane or shutter between them & attached to the key.? Something
>> > like
>> > this ought to be reasonably fog-resistant I would expect, and if it's
>> > hidden
>> > beneath the keybed should be resistant to ambient/sunlight issues.? I
>> > don't
>> > know if there are any typical temperature-related changes to linearity
>> > or
>> > operating point with IR phototransistors, but none of the circuits I've
>> > seen
>> > which use these devices seem to have any temperature compensation so I
>> > suspect it's not a significant factor.
>> >
>> > Somebody (or multiple persons) on this list was/were working on a
>> > QTC-based
>> > poly-AT scheme last year or so...
>> > any progress on that front?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Amos
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:53 AM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> You don't really need an additional contact.
>> >> Just tell the user not to touch the keyboard when calibrating... like
>> >> the SQ-80 does!
>> >> DON'T TOUCH KEYBOARD << SQ80 does it like this. I love it.
>> >> but it could be useful, indeed.
>> >> now the question is whether temperature can change the *linearity*.
>> >> That's more important, I think. That's also a reason why I had
>> >> thoughts about an optical sensor.
>> >> Optical mice use cheap optical sensors... you can have a mouse like
>> >> that for 5 dollars, can't you? And that's including all the other crap
>> >> they put in em :) You'd also need a focused laser beam... no idea how
>> >> much those could be.
>> >>
>> >> Optical sensors don't work that well in smoky rooms though... so no
>> >> jarre fog i guess? This definitely disqualifies optical technology for
>> >> some people ;)
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:42 PM, ChristianH <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
>> >> > On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:31:06 -0700 Ian Fritz <ijfritz at comcast.net>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> At 11:52 PM 3/1/2009, Simon Brouwer wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Have you looked at the spec sheet on that page? Although not
>> >> >> > particularly
>> >> >> >linear, these appear to be analog sensors.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ooops! ?Right you are. ?I got confused by the Futurlec description.
>> >> >> ?These
>> >> >> might be worth looking into further. ?One thing to be careful about
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> whether they have temperature compensation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ian
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I don't know about temperature characteristics in this case, but a
>> >> > simple offset could be compensated by measuring the all-notes-off
>> >> > values.
>> >> >
>> >> > If there *is* an additional key contact, that is.
>> >> >
>> >> > Christian
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Synth-diy mailing list
>> >> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> >> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Synth-diy mailing list
>> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 02:56:10 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 01:56:10 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] up in smoke
In-Reply-To: <49AC5BB1.4030000@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <38557.43873.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<49AC1ED4.60302@sonic.net> <49AC5BB1.4030000@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903031756v71f8980fidfa1ab84ca4a8d98@mail.gmail.com>

brings a whole new meaning to 'beat producer'

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Magnus Danielson
<magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:
> Dave Manley skrev:
>>
>> Tim Ressel wrote:
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've seen a lot of broken equipment, but I don't
>>>> think I've ever seen a chip spontaneously burn out like
>>>> you describe. I'd start hunting for other faults to see
>>>> what caused it.
>>>
>>> I agree. ?While it is possible for an IC to undergo Spontaneous
>>> Semiconductor Combustion
>>
>> Happens more often in drum machines.
>>
>> :-)
>
> Yes... couln't take all that beating all of the time... :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Mar  4 03:38:44 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:38:44 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digi-Mod [was: source for many, small,
 simple PCB's  ??  for educational use]
In-Reply-To: <49ADBA5C.9020800@burnit.co.uk>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>	<49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>
	<49AD84BF.20103@burnit.co.uk>	<89F58BD4-783C-461F-B8E9-CDAE18804CE2@cox.net>
	<49ADBA5C.9020800@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49ADE9B4.1090304@burnit.co.uk>

Seb Francis wrote:
>
> I guess I'll stick to Eurocircuits (www.thepcbshop.com / 
> www.eurocircuits.com) for the Digi-Mod boards then ... never had any 
> problem with the quality from them.
>

Incidentally I just tonight finished getting my head around setting up 
all the peripherals of the dsPIC in my DigiMod board, and I'm happy to 
say that all parts of the PCB are functioning perfectly.  My only small 
screw-up with the design was getting a couple of the resistor values 
wrong in the feedback return VCA stage.  Nothing that a couple of 
seconds with a soldering iron didn't fix.  I've discovered also that the 
THAT VCAs have a lovely warm/soft distortion when over-driven, so a 
perfect input stage before the ADC.

Now I just hope I can get all the software written and functioning 
before I run out of flash write-cycles ... 100 cycle min  / 1000 cycle 
typ. endurance is kind of low - much lower than older dsPICs.  The only 
thing that gives me some hope is that this is spec'ed over -40 to 85C, 
so perhaps at 20-30C one can get a lot more cycles?

Seb





From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Wed Mar  4 06:01:21 2009
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 22:01:21 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Digi-Mod [was: source for many, small,
	simple PCB's  ??  for educational use]
In-Reply-To: <49ADE9B4.1090304@burnit.co.uk>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>	<49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>
	<49AD84BF.20103@burnit.co.uk>	<89F58BD4-783C-461F-B8E9-CDAE18804CE2@cox.net>
	<49ADBA5C.9020800@burnit.co.uk> <49ADE9B4.1090304@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D0396511-E31F-40DD-BEAF-B3A6D1A58D1C@cox.net>


On Mar 3, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Seb Francis wrote:

> Incidentally I just tonight finished getting my head around setting  
> up all the peripherals of the dsPIC in my DigiMod board, and I'm  
> happy to say that all parts of the PCB are functioning perfectly.   
> My only small screw-up with the design was getting a couple of the  
> resistor values wrong in the feedback return VCA stage.  Nothing  
> that a couple of seconds with a soldering iron didn't fix.  I've  
> discovered also that the THAT VCAs have a lovely warm/soft  
> distortion when over-driven, so a perfect input stage before the ADC.

Great news!

> Now I just hope I can get all the software written and functioning  
> before I run out of flash write-cycles ... 100 cycle min  / 1000  
> cycle typ. endurance is kind of low - much lower than older dsPICs.   
> The only thing that gives me some hope is that this is spec'ed over  
> -40 to 85C, so perhaps at 20-30C one can get a lot more cycles?

Cross my fingers - I have been using the same board / chip for  
development on a couple of different projects and haven't run out of  
flash cycles yet. I'd guess I'm probably in the 200-300 cycles range  
and it's still working fine.

Eric


From juzowen at googlemail.com  Wed Mar  4 10:30:35 2009
From: juzowen at googlemail.com (Justin Owen)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:30:35 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Your favourite local music hardware retailer...
Message-ID: <49ae4a41.e203be0a.6486.1cf7@mx.google.com>

Hey all,

Like the title says, I'm looking for info on people, places, stores, sites, etc. that sell limited edition, boutique, custom, one-off, hacked, bent, small-run, etc. instruments, effects, synths and noise-making devices.

I'm not looking for people or companies that are just manufacturing and selling their own bits - I'm specifically looking for places that have a decent selection of stuff that isn't all major, big-brand manufacturers.

A good example would be Big City Music in CA - but I don't care whether it's a site or a store - or where it's based (although I'm based in London FWIW).

For the sake of clarity...

Yes, I'm doing a (very) small 'production' run of a synth/effect unit that is based on my own design.
No, I'm not expecting to retire from the 'profits' or put Korg, Roland, et al out of business.
Yes, I'll be putting up a new vid on my YouTube channel when the next prototype round is complete.
No, I won't be selling bare-bones boards for this version - but a 'modular' version is definitely on the 'to do' list...

Thanks all - making stuff is good.

Justin






From derek at umatic.nl  Wed Mar  4 11:21:28 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:21:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Your favourite local music hardware retailer...
In-Reply-To: <49ae4a41.e203be0a.6486.1cf7@mx.google.com>
References: <49ae4a41.e203be0a.6486.1cf7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <49AE5628.7080306@umatic.nl>

http://www.schneidersbuero.de/

best!
D.

Justin Owen wrote:

> Like the title says, I'm looking for info on people, places, stores, sites, etc. that sell limited edition, boutique, custom, one-off, hacked, bent, small-run, etc. instruments, effects, synths and noise-making devices.

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 63:
"Don't break the silence"


From sines_tr at scale.gs  Wed Mar  4 13:35:45 2009
From: sines_tr at scale.gs (Todd Sines)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 07:35:45 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Your favourite local music hardware retailer...
In-Reply-To: <49AE5628.7080306@umatic.nl>
References: <49ae4a41.e203be0a.6486.1cf7@mx.google.com>
	<49AE5628.7080306@umatic.nl>
Message-ID: <34CE3F60-290D-4FC4-9521-50B5E9C34613@scale.gs>

Not sure if it was mentioned but Main Drag Music in Williamsburg,  
Brooklyn, NY carries tons of home-brew, bent and boutique noise boxes  
& effects pedals.

Analogue Haven in Pomona, CA does as well (in addition to most modern  
analogue modulars)


+odd
--
Todd Sines, director  |  sines at scale.gs
+ SCALE : http://www.scale.gs
connecting the space between + within.

On Mar 4, 2009, at 5:21 AM, Derek Holzer <derek at umatic.nl> wrote:

> http://www.schneidersbuero.de/
>
> best!
> D.
>
> Justin Owen wrote:
>
>> Like the title says, I'm looking for info on people, places,  
>> stores, sites, etc. that sell limited edition, boutique, custom,  
>> one-off, hacked, bent, small-run, etc. instruments, effects, synths  
>> and noise-making devices.
>
> -- 
> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
> ---Oblique Strategy # 63:
> "Don't break the silence"
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From srmaietta at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  4 14:21:54 2009
From: srmaietta at yahoo.com (Steve Maietta)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 05:21:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] source for mansy, small, simple PCB'S   EDUCATIONAL USE.
Message-ID: <117639.9240.qm@web51708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hey guys, thanks for the links and ideas. .  .  This would be for next year so I have time to mull it all over.

I do use breadboards of course to teach, but I want something the students can build to take home (look ma - electronics rocks!) and something they can practice soldering on.  Afterall, whats the point of teaching electronics if they aren't confident enough to take apart and hack their old junk!  There are kits availale for this, but they're not really cheap and Id like the kids to be a little more involved. (calculating/picking parts, testing, then soldering)

we're doing hand drawn circuits on foamcore board next.  Punching holes with small nails and then soldering parts on. (astable multivibrator dual LED blinky)

we'll see how it goes, might just get protoboard instead of real PCB's..  who knows..  We'll be sending a few future EE's outta here before I'm done!!  we need more synth designers!

~Steve

trying to get my supervisor to spring for a PIC BASIC programming environment and burners for next year's level 2 class - fingers crosssed!


      


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Mar  4 15:52:14 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:52:14 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Digi-Mod [was: source for many, small,
 simple PCB's  ??  for educational use]
In-Reply-To: <D0396511-E31F-40DD-BEAF-B3A6D1A58D1C@cox.net>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>	<49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>
	<49AD84BF.20103@burnit.co.uk>	<89F58BD4-783C-461F-B8E9-CDAE18804CE2@cox.net>
	<49ADBA5C.9020800@burnit.co.uk> <49ADE9B4.1090304@burnit.co.uk>
	<D0396511-E31F-40DD-BEAF-B3A6D1A58D1C@cox.net>
Message-ID: <49AE959E.7040806@burnit.co.uk>


>> Now I just hope I can get all the software written and functioning 
>> before I run out of flash write-cycles ... 100 cycle min  / 1000 
>> cycle typ. endurance is kind of low - much lower than older dsPICs.  
>> The only thing that gives me some hope is that this is spec'ed over 
>> -40 to 85C, so perhaps at 20-30C one can get a lot more cycles?
>
> Cross my fingers - I have been using the same board / chip for 
> development on a couple of different projects and haven't run out of 
> flash cycles yet. I'd guess I'm probably in the 200-300 cycles range 
> and it's still working fine.
>

That's good to know :)

I wonder how you know when they go bad though .. hopefully immediate 
verification errors, or could the memory change its state at a later stage?

Seb





From sijodk at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 16:04:41 2009
From: sijodk at gmail.com (Silas Johansen)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 16:04:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Your favourite local music hardware retailer...
In-Reply-To: <49ae4a41.e203be0a.6486.1cf7@mx.google.com>
References: <49ae4a41.e203be0a.6486.1cf7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <165c8b530903040704l6003f009ye004518d333bde1c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Justin,

http://www.highendtentacles.dk/ in Copenhagen, Denmark, might be one
of the retail oulets you're looking for. Haven't done business with
them but they have some small production run stuff available.

Cheers,
Silas

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Justin Owen <juzowen at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> Like the title says, I'm looking for info on people, places, stores, sites, etc. that sell limited edition, boutique, custom, one-off, hacked, bent, small-run, etc. instruments, effects, synths and noise-making devices.
>
> I'm not looking for people or companies that are just manufacturing and selling their own bits - I'm specifically looking for places that have a decent selection of stuff that isn't all major, big-brand manufacturers.
>
> A good example would be Big City Music in CA - but I don't care whether it's a site or a store - or where it's based (although I'm based in London FWIW).
>
> For the sake of clarity...
>
> Yes, I'm doing a (very) small 'production' run of a synth/effect unit that is based on my own design.
> No, I'm not expecting to retire from the 'profits' or put Korg, Roland, et al out of business.
> Yes, I'll be putting up a new vid on my YouTube channel when the next prototype round is complete.
> No, I won't be selling bare-bones boards for this version - but a 'modular' version is definitely on the 'to do' list...
>
> Thanks all - making stuff is good.
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From paul.dickow at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 16:11:35 2009
From: paul.dickow at gmail.com (Paul Dickow)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 07:11:35 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Your favourite local music hardware retailer...
In-Reply-To: <34CE3F60-290D-4FC4-9521-50B5E9C34613@scale.gs>
References: <49ae4a41.e203be0a.6486.1cf7@mx.google.com>
	<49AE5628.7080306@umatic.nl>
	<34CE3F60-290D-4FC4-9521-50B5E9C34613@scale.gs>
Message-ID: <f93c02ec0903040711j32202cddy7ba7d2007155dbc3@mail.gmail.com>

Old Town Music in Portland is guitar centric but synth friendly and
has a lot of boutique and homebrew equipment.

Also, there is the unusual Buzz-R-Electronics in Portland which
carries one of a kind items, circuit bent stuff and things like
Jessica Rylan's "Little Boy Blue" synthesizer.

www.buzz-r-electronics.com

Paul/Strategy

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 4:35 AM, Todd Sines <sines_tr at scale.gs> wrote:
> Not sure if it was mentioned but Main Drag Music in Williamsburg, Brooklyn,
> NY carries tons of home-brew, bent and boutique noise boxes & effects
> pedals.
>
> Analogue Haven in Pomona, CA does as well (in addition to most modern
> analogue modulars)
>
>
> +odd
> --
> Todd Sines, director ?| ?sines at scale.gs
> + SCALE : http://www.scale.gs
> connecting the space between + within.
>
> On Mar 4, 2009, at 5:21 AM, Derek Holzer <derek at umatic.nl> wrote:
>
>> http://www.schneidersbuero.de/
>>
>> best!
>> D.
>>
>> Justin Owen wrote:
>>
>>> Like the title says, I'm looking for info on people, places, stores,
>>> sites, etc. that sell limited edition, boutique, custom, one-off, hacked,
>>> bent, small-run, etc. instruments, effects, synths and noise-making devices.
>>
>> --
>> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl :::
>> http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
>> ---Oblique Strategy # 63:
>> "Don't break the silence"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
Paul Dickow
STRATEGY
www.community-library.net
www.archigramophone.com
Community Library/Kranky/Audio Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar  4 16:51:29 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:51:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Digi-Mod [was: source for many, small,
	simple PCB's  ??  for educational use]
In-Reply-To: <49AE959E.7040806@burnit.co.uk>
References: <OFFB058DFE.44D05A59-ONC125756E.005316D5-C125756E.00535AA0@jeppesen.com>	<49AD6DBD.5090407@makenoisemusic.com>
	<49AD84BF.20103@burnit.co.uk>	<89F58BD4-783C-461F-B8E9-CDAE18804CE2@cox.net>
	<49ADBA5C.9020800@burnit.co.uk> <49ADE9B4.1090304@burnit.co.uk>
	<D0396511-E31F-40DD-BEAF-B3A6D1A58D1C@cox.net>
	<49AE959E.7040806@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C0DD2125-25C7-45BF-A1AC-C4CAD5FC7BE6@electricdruid.net>


On 4 Mar 2009, at 14:52, Seb Francis wrote:

>
>>> Now I just hope I can get all the software written and  
>>> functioning before I run out of flash write-cycles ... 100 cycle  
>>> min  / 1000 cycle typ. endurance is kind of low - much lower than  
>>> older dsPICs.  The only thing that gives me some hope is that  
>>> this is spec'ed over -40 to 85C, so perhaps at 20-30C one can get  
>>> a lot more cycles?
>>
>> Cross my fingers - I have been using the same board / chip for  
>> development on a couple of different projects and haven't run out  
>> of flash cycles yet. I'd guess I'm probably in the 200-300 cycles  
>> range and it's still working fine.
>>
>
> That's good to know :)
>
> I wonder how you know when they go bad though .. hopefully  
> immediate verification errors, or could the memory change its state  
> at a later stage?

Yes, I'd like to know that too. I've been following this thread with  
interest, since I've got a dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 sat in my breadboard  
which has been programmed up to be the brain of about 5 different  
ideas already. The poor thing must be feeling quite worn out. I  
wonder how much life it has left.

T.




From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  4 16:54:54 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:54:54 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
Message-ID: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>


Today i was trying to lock my BABY 10 sequencer to my Logic song.

What i was doing was sending out a steady hi-hat on a drum machine plug in and sending this into Ian's 
T/G/T/S/H (which is a sample hold module but i use it a lot for converting audio to a gate or trigger signal)

I then take a gate (or trigger) out of this and feed it into the clock in of the BABY 10.

I then take the Gate out from this and plug it into my adsr.

So far the results have been mixed

If i want the sequence to be as fast as the DAW tempo, i have to program the original hi hat in double or triple time.

so....i was wondering how other do this. maybe using  DRUM MACHINE plugin isnt the way to go?

i would love to start doing more stuff where the drums in a track trigger my modular, or clock it.


thanks so much

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page






From mverbos at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  4 17:17:54 2009
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:17:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B1A7C862-494C-4ABC-AF2B-0923DCCE5D72@earthlink.net>

Dan,

I usually set up one of my Roland drum machines to send out a trigger  
in the rhythm I want. I sync it up to the computer.

You could also try using an audio track with a sound even shorter than  
a hihat. Try drawing a positive only spike with the pencil tool.


Mark




On Mar 4, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Dan Snazelle wrote:

>
> Today i was trying to lock my BABY 10 sequencer to my Logic song.
>
> What i was doing was sending out a steady hi-hat on a drum machine  
> plug in and sending this into Ian's
> T/G/T/S/H (which is a sample hold module but i use it a lot for  
> converting audio to a gate or trigger signal)
>
> I then take a gate (or trigger) out of this and feed it into the  
> clock in of the BABY 10.
>
> I then take the Gate out from this and plug it into my adsr.
>
> So far the results have been mixed
>
> If i want the sequence to be as fast as the DAW tempo, i have to  
> program the original hi hat in double or triple time.
>
> so....i was wondering how other do this. maybe using  DRUM MACHINE  
> plugin isnt the way to go?
>
> i would love to start doing more stuff where the drums in a track  
> trigger my modular, or clock it.
>
>
> thanks so much
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
> (updated monthly)
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
> AUDIO ARK:
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From james at ticalun.net  Wed Mar  4 17:19:22 2009
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:19:22 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00c601c99ce4$fafcae30$f0f60a90$@net>

I just use a MIDI->CV converter to generate a gate and use that as my clock.
It has the benefit of allowing you to program complex rhythmic structures
more easily than could be achieved by modifying a clock signal in the
modular world.

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:55 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?


Today i was trying to lock my BABY 10 sequencer to my Logic song.

What i was doing was sending out a steady hi-hat on a drum machine plug in
and sending this into Ian's 
T/G/T/S/H (which is a sample hold module but i use it a lot for converting
audio to a gate or trigger signal)

I then take a gate (or trigger) out of this and feed it into the clock in of
the BABY 10.

I then take the Gate out from this and plug it into my adsr.

So far the results have been mixed

If i want the sequence to be as fast as the DAW tempo, i have to program the
original hi hat in double or triple time.

so....i was wondering how other do this. maybe using  DRUM MACHINE plugin
isnt the way to go?

i would love to start doing more stuff where the drums in a track trigger my
modular, or clock it.


thanks so much

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page




_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From james at ticalun.net  Wed Mar  4 17:21:14 2009
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:21:14 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>

Also, try using a kick instead of a highhat as it will give you S&H
something stronger to "chew" on.  Just make sure it has an instant attack
and isn't gated or enveloped in some way.

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:55 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?


Today i was trying to lock my BABY 10 sequencer to my Logic song.

What i was doing was sending out a steady hi-hat on a drum machine plug in
and sending this into Ian's 
T/G/T/S/H (which is a sample hold module but i use it a lot for converting
audio to a gate or trigger signal)

I then take a gate (or trigger) out of this and feed it into the clock in of
the BABY 10.

I then take the Gate out from this and plug it into my adsr.

So far the results have been mixed

If i want the sequence to be as fast as the DAW tempo, i have to program the
original hi hat in double or triple time.

so....i was wondering how other do this. maybe using  DRUM MACHINE plugin
isnt the way to go?

i would love to start doing more stuff where the drums in a track trigger my
modular, or clock it.


thanks so much

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page




_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
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From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar  4 18:47:47 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:47:47 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
	<00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>
Message-ID: <74847ADA-3744-4B51-A1A9-DD9B8E3FEA38@electricdruid.net>

James is right to suggest this. I used to use the kick drum on a Boss  
Dr Rhythm drum machine as simple MIDI-to-clock-pulse convertor. The  
keypad had died on the drum machine, making it more-or-less unusable,  
but it was still good for this.

I didn't have an S&H, but I could use the kick to trigger the  
envelopes in my Pro-One via its external audio input.

Somebody  somewhere must have written a simple MIDI-clock-to-clock- 
pulse convertor for PIC or other simple uP though?
Read a MIDI input via onboard UART, spit out +5V pulses from a pin  
when MIDI sync arrives. You could set it up for 1/8th notes, 1/4  
notes, etc, or output each different rate from a separate pin. Anyone  
know of such a thing?

T.

On 4 Mar 2009, at 16:21, James R. Coplin wrote:

> Also, try using a kick instead of a highhat as it will give you S&H
> something stronger to "chew" on.  Just make sure it has an instant  
> attack
> and isn't gated or enveloped in some way.
>
> James R. Coplin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:55 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
>
>
> Today i was trying to lock my BABY 10 sequencer to my Logic song.
>
> What i was doing was sending out a steady hi-hat on a drum machine  
> plug in
> and sending this into Ian's
> T/G/T/S/H (which is a sample hold module but i use it a lot for  
> converting
> audio to a gate or trigger signal)
>
> I then take a gate (or trigger) out of this and feed it into the  
> clock in of
> the BABY 10.
>
> I then take the Gate out from this and plug it into my adsr.
>
> So far the results have been mixed
>
> If i want the sequence to be as fast as the DAW tempo, i have to  
> program the
> original hi hat in double or triple time.
>
> so....i was wondering how other do this. maybe using  DRUM MACHINE  
> plugin
> isnt the way to go?
>
> i would love to start doing more stuff where the drums in a track  
> trigger my
> modular, or clock it.
>
>
> thanks so much
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
>  http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
> (updated monthly)
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
> AUDIO ARK:
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From jason at redfish.net  Wed Mar  4 19:00:28 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:00:28 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <74847ADA-3744-4B51-A1A9-DD9B8E3FEA38@electricdruid.net>
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
	<00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>
	<74847ADA-3744-4B51-A1A9-DD9B8E3FEA38@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <a06200764c5d471514c4b@[10.0.1.4]>

>Somebody  somewhere must have written a simple 
>MIDI-clock-to-clock-pulse convertor for PIC or other simple uP 
>though?
>Read a MIDI input via onboard UART, spit out +5V pulses from a pin 
>when MIDI sync arrives. You could set it up for 1/8th notes, 1/4 
>notes, etc, or output each different rate from a separate pin. 
>Anyone know of such a thing?

well indeed, my Arduino module is doing this right now :-)

a minimal version that just does clock conversion could be put 
together very easily and probably on the Ladyada prototyping shield 
even. a sketch which does various MIDI to analogue functions is 
available in the files section of the arduino_synth group @yahoo.

another option is the Blacet MIDI Sync preprogrammed PIC, but having 
taken that route a while back i strongly suggest talking to me first 
before doing any construction.



From thescum at surfree.com  Wed Mar  4 19:42:08 2009
From: thescum at surfree.com (Byron G. Jacquot)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:42:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
Message-ID: <8714396.1236192128814.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>Somebody  somewhere must have written a simple MIDI-clock-to-clock- 
>pulse convertor for PIC or other simple uP though?
>Read a MIDI input via onboard UART, spit out +5V pulses from a pin  
>when MIDI sync arrives. You could set it up for 1/8th notes, 1/4  
>notes, etc, or output each different rate from a separate pin. Anyone  
>know of such a thing?

Like this?
http://blacet.com/misc.html

Add a couple external counters and you can get whatever subdivisions you want.

Byron Jacquot


From electronicbattle at googlemail.com  Wed Mar  4 19:58:31 2009
From: electronicbattle at googlemail.com (Electronic Battle)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 18:58:31 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl><00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>
	<74847ADA-3744-4B51-A1A9-DD9B8E3FEA38@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <033F225D21874930ADE6965DD1DA3CF5@cruncher2>

>> Somebody  somewhere must have written a simple MIDI-clock-to-clock- pulse 
>> convertor for PIC or other simple uP though?
>> Read a MIDI input via onboard UART, spit out +5V pulses from a pin  when 
>> MIDI sync arrives. You could set it up for 1/8th notes, 1/4  notes, etc, 
>> or output each different rate from a separate pin. Anyone  know of such a 
>> thing?

>Like this?
>http://blacet.com/misc.html
>Add a couple external counters and you can get whatever subdivisions you 
>want.
>Byron Jacquot


There's this too:


http://m.bareille.free.fr/mc628/mc628.html





From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  4 20:06:35 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:06:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Your favourite local music hardware retailer...
In-Reply-To: <34CE3F60-290D-4FC4-9521-50B5E9C34613@scale.gs>
Message-ID: <138578.29484.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Robotspeak in SF!

http://www.robotspeak.com/


Not a physical storefront so far as I know, but NoiseFX buys/sells/trades noisy toys and gear as well.

http://www.noisefx.com/


_Kyle


--- On Wed, 3/4/09, Todd Sines <sines_tr at scale.gs> wrote:

> From: Todd Sines <sines_tr at scale.gs>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Your favourite local music hardware retailer...
> To: "Derek Holzer" <derek at umatic.nl>
> Cc: "synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 4:35 AM
> Not sure if it was mentioned but Main Drag Music in
> Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY carries tons of home-brew, bent
> and boutique noise boxes & effects pedals.
> 
> Analogue Haven in Pomona, CA does as well (in addition to
> most modern analogue modulars)
> 
> 
> +odd
> --
> Todd Sines, director  |  sines at scale.gs
> + SCALE : http://www.scale.gs
> connecting the space between + within.
> 
> On Mar 4, 2009, at 5:21 AM, Derek Holzer
> <derek at umatic.nl> wrote:
> 
> > http://www.schneidersbuero.de/
> > 
> > best!
> > D.
> > 
> > Justin Owen wrote:
> > 
> >> Like the title says, I'm looking for info on
> people, places, stores, sites, etc. that sell limited
> edition, boutique, custom, one-off, hacked, bent, small-run,
> etc. instruments, effects, synths and noise-making devices.
> > 
> > --derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl :::
> http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
> > ---Oblique Strategy # 63:
> > "Don't break the silence"
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  4 20:10:33 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 19:10:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
	<00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W22B209022FDBBECF0A1966C8A70@phx.gbl>




> Also, try using a kick instead of a highhat as it will give you S&H
> something stronger to "chew" on.  Just make sure it has an instant attack
> and isn't gated or enveloped in some way.


one problem i find, especially with a loud kick, is that for some reason, if i am not super careful with the output level, i will HEAR the audio i am using as a trigger bleeding into my synth signal. this seems to happen less with a short pulse like a hihat which is why i was using that.


thanks for all the great info





From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  4 20:14:12 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:14:12 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Problems finding parts in Eagle
Message-ID: <BAY141-W28A1D7E8A33E3455EEA01DF5A70@phx.gbl>


Hi all,
I'm having problems finding an LM13700, or even any OTA in Eagle.
Thanks for the help.
-Ian Smith
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Life without walls.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009


From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Wed Mar  4 20:30:10 2009
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:30:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Problems finding parts in Eagle
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W28A1D7E8A33E3455EEA01DF5A70@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY141-W28A1D7E8A33E3455EEA01DF5A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A66801E55C5@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>


Hi!

>Hi all,
>I'm having problems finding an LM13700, or even any OTA in Eagle.
>Thanks for the help.
>-Ian Smith

Google is your friends and finds it for you:

 www.sonic.net/~dlmanley/synthdiy.lbr

included are:
some Pads
2SA798
2SA1349
2SC1583
2SC3381
AD633
CA3046
CA3080
CA3280
D_Zehner
IT120
LM394
LM2931
LM4040
LM13600
LM13700
LS318
LT1013
NJM13600
NJM13700
NTE42
NTE43
PAN9MMPOT (9mm Panasonic Poti)
TLV5618A

Ciao
Peter

http://www.ullrich.at.tt


From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Wed Mar  4 20:37:45 2009
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:37:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Problems finding parts in Eagle / 2
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A66801E55C7@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

Or from the Cadsoft-Download page:

http://www.cadsoft.de/cgi-bin/download.pl?page=/home/cadsoft/html_public/download.htm.de&dir=eagle/userfiles/libraries

ota.lbr  12,739   Fri Jan 23 16:19:45 2009
A couple of OTAs: CA3080, NE5517, LM13700 and several more.
Uploaded by Ren? Trapp <rene.trapp at web.de> from -

Ciao
Peter

http://www.ullrich.at.tt


From igg.debus at t-online.de  Wed Mar  4 20:42:55 2009
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:42:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Problems finding parts in Eagle
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W28A1D7E8A33E3455EEA01DF5A70@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY141-W28A1D7E8A33E3455EEA01DF5A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AF70C23C-C7EC-4962-AFF4-6950DA8F72B6@t-online.de>


Am 04.03.2009 um 20:14 schrieb Ian Smith:

> I'm having problems finding an LM13700, or even any OTA in Eagle.
> Thanks for the help.
  On Cadsoft's download page:
<http://www.cadsoft.de/cgi-bin/download.pl?page=/home/cadsoft/ 
html_public/download.htm.de&dir=eagle/userfiles/libraries>
there's a file ota.lbr

Ingo



From stewpye at optusnet.com.au  Wed Mar  4 21:03:18 2009
From: stewpye at optusnet.com.au (Stewart Pye)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 06:03:18 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W22B209022FDBBECF0A1966C8A70@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>	<00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>
	<BAY144-W22B209022FDBBECF0A1966C8A70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49AEDE86.5050804@optusnet.com.au>

There used to be a simple single PIC MIDI - Trigger design on the net 
but I can't find it now. I designed one a few years ago using an AVR 
micro but this had DAC outputs for triggering drums. I might do a simple 
trigger unit one day but it won't happen overnight. I haven't programmed 
for years.
Having a trigger out that you can sequence can be more useful than just 
using sync pulses.

Stew.


Dan Snazelle wrote:
>
>   
>> Also, try using a kick instead of a highhat as it will give you S&H
>> something stronger to "chew" on.  Just make sure it has an instant attack
>> and isn't gated or enveloped in some way.
>>     
>
>
> one problem i find, especially with a loud kick, is that for some reason, if i am not super careful with the output level, i will HEAR the audio i am using as a trigger bleeding into my synth signal. this seems to happen less with a short pulse like a hihat which is why i was using that.
>
>
> thanks for all the great info
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar  4 21:05:57 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:05:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <8714396.1236192128814.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8714396.1236192128814.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D12EEE6B-3928-4894-8598-D8FBE1B070E6@electricdruid.net>


On 4 Mar 2009, at 18:42, Byron G. Jacquot wrote:

>> Somebody  somewhere must have written a simple MIDI-clock-to-clock-
>> pulse convertor for PIC or other simple uP though?
>> Read a MIDI input via onboard UART, spit out +5V pulses from a pin
>> when MIDI sync arrives. You could set it up for 1/8th notes, 1/4
>> notes, etc, or output each different rate from a separate pin. Anyone
>> know of such a thing?
>
> Like this?
> http://blacet.com/misc.html
>
> Add a couple external counters and you can get whatever  
> subdivisions you want.

Yes, that's pretty much exactly what I had in mind. I *knew* somebody  
had to have done it already. Thanks Byron.

T.





From jason at redfish.net  Wed Mar  4 21:20:31 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:20:31 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <D12EEE6B-3928-4894-8598-D8FBE1B070E6@electricdruid.net>
References: <8714396.1236192128814.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<D12EEE6B-3928-4894-8598-D8FBE1B070E6@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <a06200769c5d492b927e4@[10.0.1.4]>

>Yes, that's pretty much exactly what I had in mind. I *knew* 
>somebody had to have done it already. Thanks Byron.

i don't know whether my other post didn't make it, but again - i had 
plenty of trouble with this chip and the suggested circuits. i 
recommend caution and/or rolling your own.



From horton.andrew at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 21:33:06 2009
From: horton.andrew at gmail.com (Horton)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:33:06 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
Message-ID: <a9ce79240903041233i6b3124e5r90526d53bea487cd@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, guys - I'd like to try to build some of my own 1/4" instrument
and patch cables. They're so expensive and hard to find in certain
shorter lengths, and I need a million for my modular synth anyway. Can
somebody recommend some good web tutorials on doing this? How about
some general advice if you've done it, too?

A.H.


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed Mar  4 21:38:14 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:38:14 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
Message-ID: <60356.1236199094@oricom.ca>


I'm building my MIDI2CV mono/poly module and have one question..
I'm gonna have 6 voices CV's outs on my polyphonic mode
and want to use a portamento pot that would control all 6 voices
at the same time. I was guessing to use 3 dual 1meg digital pots (6 pots overall)
(Analog Device AD5242) and 6 caps to make the porta voltage glidings..
Those are 256 taps which makes 1meg/256 = 3906ohms per steps (+ 60 ohm for wiper).
These would be place right between my MAX551 DAC's 0-5v outs and my precision opamp 
voltage followers. I don't want to create CV's 1v/oct unprecision using them so..

What is your thoughts on that..
Cheers,
J-Pierre



From colin at colinfraser.com  Wed Mar  4 22:17:36 2009
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:17:36 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
In-Reply-To: <60356.1236199094@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <7A5C38481AEC4259952400AD17555338@zen2>

 
> I'm building my MIDI2CV mono/poly module and have one question..
> I'm gonna have 6 voices CV's outs on my polyphonic mode
> and want to use a portamento pot that would control all 6 voices
> at the same time. I was guessing to use 3 dual 1meg digital 
> pots (6 pots overall)
> (Analog Device AD5242) and 6 caps to make the porta voltage glidings..
> Those are 256 taps which makes 1meg/256 = 3906ohms per steps 
> (+ 60 ohm for wiper).
> These would be place right between my MAX551 DAC's 0-5v outs 
> and my precision opamp 
> voltage followers. I don't want to create CV's 1v/oct 
> unprecision using them so..

If you're using a 12-bit convertor, do the portamento in software.
With any half decent modern microcontroller, you'll easily be able to
produce 6 simulated RC curves that you wont be able to tell apart from the
real RC circuits.
And software can easily provide alternate portamento modes, such as linear,
fixed time linear, glissando, etc.

Cheers,
Colin f




From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Mar  4 22:38:00 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:38:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
In-Reply-To: <7A5C38481AEC4259952400AD17555338@zen2>
References: <7A5C38481AEC4259952400AD17555338@zen2>
Message-ID: <49AEF4B8.9070006@xs4all.nl>

Colin f schreef:
>  
>   
>> I'm building my MIDI2CV mono/poly module and have one question..
>> I'm gonna have 6 voices CV's outs on my polyphonic mode
>> and want to use a portamento pot that would control all 6 voices
>> at the same time. I was guessing to use 3 dual 1meg digital 
>> pots (6 pots overall)
>> (Analog Device AD5242) and 6 caps to make the porta voltage glidings..
>> Those are 256 taps which makes 1meg/256 = 3906ohms per steps 
>> (+ 60 ohm for wiper).
>> These would be place right between my MAX551 DAC's 0-5v outs 
>> and my precision opamp 
>> voltage followers. I don't want to create CV's 1v/oct 
>> unprecision using them so..
>>     
>
> If you're using a 12-bit convertor, do the portamento in software.
> With any half decent modern microcontroller, you'll easily be able to
> produce 6 simulated RC curves that you wont be able to tell apart from the
> real RC circuits.
> And software can easily provide alternate portamento modes, such as linear,
> fixed time linear, glissando, etc.
>   
I agree. With a glide circuit on each voice notes would glide, more or 
less haphazardly, from whatever note happened to be previously assigned 
to that voice.
Gliding from the previously played note probably gives a more pleasing 
effect. But that note is likely to have been assigned to another voice. 
Implementing this in software is probably the easiest, and does not 
affect the CV precision.

Are you planning to use a MAX551 for each voice?

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar  4 22:41:41 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:41:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <a06200769c5d492b927e4@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <8714396.1236192128814.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<D12EEE6B-3928-4894-8598-D8FBE1B070E6@electricdruid.net>
	<a06200769c5d492b927e4@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <DB27A17C-0030-41DB-AEEB-DDE23F2CF5C1@electricdruid.net>


On 4 Mar 2009, at 20:20, Jason Proctor wrote:

>> Yes, that's pretty much exactly what I had in mind. I *knew*  
>> somebody had to have done it already. Thanks Byron.
>
> i don't know whether my other post didn't make it, but again - i  
> had plenty of trouble with this chip and the suggested circuits. i  
> recommend caution and/or rolling your own.

Care to relate the tale? Or is it too painful to tell?

Rolling your own is definitely an option. I also like the suggestion  
of using some MIDI note rather than MIDI sync so that you can easily  
sequence rhythms rather than just a clock rate.

T.




From jason at redfish.net  Wed Mar  4 22:54:55 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:54:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <DB27A17C-0030-41DB-AEEB-DDE23F2CF5C1@electricdruid.net>
References: <8714396.1236192128814.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<D12EEE6B-3928-4894-8598-D8FBE1B070E6@electricdruid.net>
	<a06200769c5d492b927e4@[10.0.1.4]>
	<DB27A17C-0030-41DB-AEEB-DDE23F2CF5C1@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <a0620077dc5d4a70dea62@[10.0.1.4]>

>Care to relate the tale? Or is it too painful to tell?

oh it's not that bad. some of the PIC functions didn't behave 
themselves and had to be synthesized using external logic, the 
divider chips suggested in the circuits have 100% wrong timing or 
have other unsuitable behaviour, it goes crazy every now and again, 
etc.

it *can* be made to work, but IMHO putting a circuit around an 
Arduino or similar is less effort, can be easily customised, and 
there is plenty of help around.

>Rolling your own is definitely an option. I also like the suggestion 
>of using some MIDI note rather than MIDI sync so that you can easily 
>sequence rhythms rather than just a clock rate.

exactly. design a module that fits *your* needs. with 6 analogue 
inputs and 10 or so digital outputs on even an Arduino, the 
possibilities just for clock misbehaviour are quite extensive.



From matt at smiffytech.com  Wed Mar  4 23:17:14 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:47:14 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] source for mansy, small, simple PCB'S   EDUCATIONAL USE.
In-Reply-To: <117639.9240.qm@web51708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <117639.9240.qm@web51708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AEFDEA.8070009@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Steve Maietta at 2009-03-04 23:51...
> we'll see how it goes, might just get protoboard instead of real PCB's..  

It would be good, if it were possible, to let them get a taste of 
stripboard/prototyping board and 'real' PCBs.

Both are likely to be encountered out in the wild.  Those starting as 
hobbyists are most likely to be using some form of prototyping board 
unless they are really adventurous and want to get straight into PCB 
making.  Real PCBs, of course, are more likely to be encountered in a 
work environment.

I've seen batches of populated PCBs being sold very cheaply on eBay and 
through other surplus outputs.  If you could lay your hands on a load of 
these, they could make excellent [de]soldering practice and also be 
studied to give an insight into the layout design and manufacturing 
processes.

Odds are, you will have limited time with the students.  If you can 
provide cheap bits for extra-mural studies, so much the better.

Cheers

M


-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From matt at smiffytech.com  Wed Mar  4 23:21:02 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:51:02 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
In-Reply-To: <a9ce79240903041233i6b3124e5r90526d53bea487cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9ce79240903041233i6b3124e5r90526d53bea487cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AEFECE.9010202@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Horton at 2009-03-05 07:03...
> Hey, guys - I'd like to try to build some of my own 1/4" instrument
> and patch cables. They're so expensive and hard to find in certain
> shorter lengths, and I need a million for my modular synth anyway. Can
> somebody recommend some good web tutorials on doing this? How about
> some general advice if you've done it, too?

Two points that spring immediately to mind:

1) Use heavy-duty plugs and cable.

2) Unless the plugs have some very fancy and robust strain relief, 
heatshrink sleeving is your friend.


-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  4 23:31:30 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:31:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Analog square root
Message-ID: <875034.95589.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Did you see this?

http://www.edn.com/article/CA6636511.html?spacedesc=designideas&industryid=44217

Analog square root calculator. Gotta be handy for something...

--TimR


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Thu Mar  5 00:06:24 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 18:06:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
References: <7A5C38481AEC4259952400AD17555338@zen2>
	<49AEF4B8.9070006@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <002201c99d1d$d77018b0$6600a8c0@PCLyne>

> Are you planning to use a MAX551 for each voice?

Yes.
Velocity, Pitch bend, Mod wheel, After touch, CC0, CC1
will have 8bits DAC's each.
I have a bunch of DAC0800 on hand for it so...
Software method.. Good idea! But I don't want to load
the 'analysis' time for each received MIDI bytes to CV outs.. wondering..
I'm using a PIC16F877 at 20mHz.
JP

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Brouwer" <simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl>
To: <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..


> Colin f schreef:
>>
>>> I'm building my MIDI2CV mono/poly module and have one question..
>>> I'm gonna have 6 voices CV's outs on my polyphonic mode
>>> and want to use a portamento pot that would control all 6 voices
>>> at the same time. I was guessing to use 3 dual 1meg digital pots (6 pots 
>>> overall)
>>> (Analog Device AD5242) and 6 caps to make the porta voltage glidings..
>>> Those are 256 taps which makes 1meg/256 = 3906ohms per steps (+ 60 ohm 
>>> for wiper).
>>> These would be place right between my MAX551 DAC's 0-5v outs and my 
>>> precision opamp voltage followers. I don't want to create CV's 1v/oct 
>>> unprecision using them so..
>>>
>>
>> If you're using a 12-bit convertor, do the portamento in software.
>> With any half decent modern microcontroller, you'll easily be able to
>> produce 6 simulated RC curves that you wont be able to tell apart from 
>> the
>> real RC circuits.
>> And software can easily provide alternate portamento modes, such as 
>> linear,
>> fixed time linear, glissando, etc.
>>
> I agree. With a glide circuit on each voice notes would glide, more or 
> less haphazardly, from whatever note happened to be previously assigned to 
> that voice.
> Gliding from the previously played note probably gives a more pleasing 
> effect. But that note is likely to have been assigned to another voice. 
> Implementing this in software is probably the easiest, and does not affect 
> the CV precision.
>
> Are you planning to use a MAX551 for each voice?
>
> -- 
> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> __________ NOD32 3908 (20090304) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 



From rtellason at verizon.net  Thu Mar  5 01:15:26 2009
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:15:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] source for mansy, small, simple PCB'S   EDUCATIONAL USE.
In-Reply-To: <49AEFDEA.8070009@smiffytech.com>
References: <117639.9240.qm@web51708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<49AEFDEA.8070009@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <200903041915.26482.rtellason@verizon.net>

> I've seen batches of populated PCBs being sold very cheaply on eBay and
> through other surplus outputs.  If you could lay your hands on a load of
> these, they could make excellent [de]soldering practice and also be
> studied to give an insight into the layout design and manufacturing
> processes.

Heck with that,  hit any local freecycle list and let people know that you're 
looking for electronic junk,  you'll get plenty of offers.  Just gotta stay 
away from monitors and TVs which present disposal issues in a lot of places 
when it comes to the tube...

I've been doing that one for a while now.  :-)

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Thu Mar  5 01:52:35 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:52:35 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
In-Reply-To: <49AEFECE.9010202@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <0KG0001PSD3OY3@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

This is something which is also starting to weigh heavily on my mind as
well.  I am preternaturally thrifty (some would say I'm so tight I creak
when I walk...), and super-de-duper fancy patch cords seem like a very quick
way to break the bank.  I've seen some which look like they are different
colors, the cable isn't very thick, and the plugs appear to be molded out of
plastic which is the same color as the cord.  These look like they wouldn't
cost the earth, but maybe they're not so durable...?  Also, I'm not that
keen on making my own, as just the thought of stripping and soldering coax
shielding to those little plug internals is enough to break me out in a cold
sweat.

So, how much to these things generally cost, where does one get 'em, and are
the little colored ones I describe really so terrible?

> Quoth Horton at 2009-03-05 07:03...
> > Hey, guys - I'd like to try to build some of my own 1/4" instrument
> > and patch cables. They're so expensive and hard to find in certain
> > shorter lengths, and I need a million for my modular synth anyway. Can
> > somebody recommend some good web tutorials on doing this? How about
> > some general advice if you've done it, too?
> 
> Two points that spring immediately to mind:
> 
> 1) Use heavy-duty plugs and cable.
> 
> 2) Unless the plugs have some very fancy and robust strain relief,
> heatshrink sleeving is your friend.



From evm at arafel.org  Thu Mar  5 02:02:25 2009
From: evm at arafel.org (Ethan VanMatre)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:02:25 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
In-Reply-To: <0KG0001PSD3OY3@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KG0001PSD3OY3@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49AF24A1.5050301@arafel.org>

I'm not sure what expensive is. I have yet to order cables. Here are the 
prices from synthesizers.com

  QP4MM-12       Patch Cable, 1/4" Plugs, 12"      $5.50       
  QP4MM-24     Patch Cable, 1/4" Plugs, 24"     $6.50      
  QP4MM-36     Patch Cable, 1/4" Plugs, 36"     $7.50      
  QP4MM-48     Patch Cable, 1/4" Plugs, 48"     $8.50      
  QP4MM-72     Patch Cable, 1/4" Plugs, 72"     $9.50     

Regards, Ethan

David G. Dixon wrote:
> This is something which is also starting to weigh heavily on my mind as
> well.  I am preternaturally thrifty (some would say I'm so tight I creak
> when I walk...), and super-de-duper fancy patch cords seem like a very quick
> way to break the bank.  I've seen some which look like they are different
> colors, the cable isn't very thick, and the plugs appear to be molded out of
> plastic which is the same color as the cord.  These look like they wouldn't
> cost the earth, but maybe they're not so durable...?  Also, I'm not that
> keen on making my own, as just the thought of stripping and soldering coax
> shielding to those little plug internals is enough to break me out in a cold
> sweat.
>
> So, how much to these things generally cost, where does one get 'em, and are
> the little colored ones I describe really so terrible?
>
>   
>> Quoth Horton at 2009-03-05 07:03...
>>     
>>> Hey, guys - I'd like to try to build some of my own 1/4" instrument
>>> and patch cables. They're so expensive and hard to find in certain
>>> shorter lengths, and I need a million for my modular synth anyway. Can
>>> somebody recommend some good web tutorials on doing this? How about
>>> some general advice if you've done it, too?
>>>       
>> Two points that spring immediately to mind:
>>
>> 1) Use heavy-duty plugs and cable.
>>
>> 2) Unless the plugs have some very fancy and robust strain relief,
>> heatshrink sleeving is your friend.
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>   



From colin at colinfraser.com  Thu Mar  5 02:36:00 2009
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 01:36:00 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
In-Reply-To: <002201c99d1d$d77018b0$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
Message-ID: <A4C56B6B6AF4494BBFA085D676E5ED7B@zen2>

 
> Software method.. Good idea! But I don't want to load
> the 'analysis' time for each received MIDI bytes to CV outs.. 
> wondering..
> I'm using a PIC16F877 at 20mHz.

Analysis time isn't an issue if you're receiving MIDI data in an interrupt
routine which then updates a state table for the code generating the glide.
The glide code must run at a fixed sample rate - easily done in a timer
interrupt, with a lower priority than the serial interrupts.

On a current project, I'm using a PIC 18F4520 with a 16-bit DAC.
The DAC is demultiplexed between 8 outputs.
The PIC is calculating an RC curve at 16-bit resolution for each output,
with a total refresh time for all channels of 1ms.
There's plenty CPU time left over for MIDI handling, voice allocation and so
on.
A PIC 16F877 only manages half the speed of the 18F part, but for 12-bit
values, and fewer outputs, it should manage the same sort of refresh speed.

Not only could you save on the hardware glide circuits, you could save on
the DACs by swapping all but one of them for a 4051 and some op-amp buffers.

Cheers,
Colin f






From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  5 02:50:04 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:50:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
In-Reply-To: <49AF24A1.5050301@arafel.org>
Message-ID: <198524.54083.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Unless you're really gung-ho on being totally DIY, I don't think it's unreasonable to buy patch cables versus building your own.


I haven't 'combat tested' these yet, but they seem sturdy enough:

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-UNBALANCED-MONO-PATCH-CABLES-36-TS-1-4-CORDS-3-FOOT_W0QQitemZ220289537717QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220289537717&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A4|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A200

I got two packs of 12" long ones also available through this seller. They have up to 36" I think, and if smaller ones can't be found here, elsewhere they are definitely, if under the name of guitar cord etc.


_Kyle


--- On Wed, 3/4/09, Ethan VanMatre <evm at arafel.org> wrote:

> From: Ethan VanMatre <evm at arafel.org>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
> To: "David G. Dixon" <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca>
> Cc: "'Synth DIY List'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 5:02 PM
> I'm not sure what expensive is. I have yet to order
> cables. Here are the prices from synthesizers.com
> 
>  QP4MM-12       Patch Cable, 1/4" Plugs, 12"     
> $5.50        QP4MM-24     Patch Cable, 1/4" Plugs,
> 24"     $6.50       QP4MM-36     Patch Cable, 1/4"
> Plugs, 36"     $7.50       QP4MM-48     Patch Cable,
> 1/4" Plugs, 48"     $8.50       QP4MM-72     Patch
> Cable, 1/4" Plugs, 72"     $9.50     
> Regards, Ethan
> 
> David G. Dixon wrote:
> > This is something which is also starting to weigh
> heavily on my mind as
> > well.  I am preternaturally thrifty (some would say
> I'm so tight I creak
> > when I walk...), and super-de-duper fancy patch cords
> seem like a very quick
> > way to break the bank.  I've seen some which look
> like they are different
> > colors, the cable isn't very thick, and the plugs
> appear to be molded out of
> > plastic which is the same color as the cord.  These
> look like they wouldn't
> > cost the earth, but maybe they're not so
> durable...?  Also, I'm not that
> > keen on making my own, as just the thought of
> stripping and soldering coax
> > shielding to those little plug internals is enough to
> break me out in a cold
> > sweat.
> > 
> > So, how much to these things generally cost, where
> does one get 'em, and are
> > the little colored ones I describe really so terrible?
> > 
> >   
> >> Quoth Horton at 2009-03-05 07:03...
> >>     
> >>> Hey, guys - I'd like to try to build some
> of my own 1/4" instrument
> >>> and patch cables. They're so expensive and
> hard to find in certain
> >>> shorter lengths, and I need a million for my
> modular synth anyway. Can
> >>> somebody recommend some good web tutorials on
> doing this? How about
> >>> some general advice if you've done it,
> too?
> >>>       
> >> Two points that spring immediately to mind:
> >> 
> >> 1) Use heavy-duty plugs and cable.
> >> 
> >> 2) Unless the plugs have some very fancy and
> robust strain relief,
> >> heatshrink sleeving is your friend.
> >>     
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      


From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Thu Mar  5 04:11:49 2009
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 19:11:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
Message-ID: <929573.95191.qm@web56804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


I use the short cheap moulded ones for most patching purposes within my synth, never encountered a problem.  I use better quality for longer runs between synths or off to the amp, etc.  I find the DIY thing not really worth the hassle unless I want something special such as Y cables, mult cables, attenuating cables, AC coupled cables, etc.  One point for the DIY ones - if a cable is only going to be used for short runs within a synth it only needs the tip conductor.  Cheap, robust and flexible need not be mutually exclusive if coax is not required.

Cheers,
Nicolas

--- On Thu, 5/3/09, Kyle Stephens <lightburnx at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Kyle Stephens <lightburnx at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
To: "Synth-DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Received: Thursday, 5 March, 2009, 2:50 PM


Unless you're really gung-ho on being totally DIY, I don't think it's unreasonable to buy patch cables versus building your own.


I haven't 'combat tested' these yet, but they seem sturdy enough:

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-UNBALANCED-MONO-PATCH-CABLES-36-TS-1-4-CORDS-3-FOOT_W0QQitemZ220289537717QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220289537717&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A4|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A200

I got two packs of 12" long ones also available through this seller. They have up to 36" I think, and if smaller ones can't be found here, elsewhere they are definitely, if under the name of guitar cord etc.


_Kyle


--- On Wed, 3/4/09, Ethan VanMatre <evm at arafel.org> wrote:

> From: Ethan VanMatre <evm at arafel.org>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
> To: "David G. Dixon" <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca>
> Cc: "'Synth DIY List'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 5:02 PM
> I'm not sure what expensive is. I have yet to order
> cables. Here are the prices from synthesizers.com
> 
>? QP4MM-12? ? ???Patch Cable, 1/4" Plugs, 12"? ???
> $5.50? ? ? ? QP4MM-24? ???Patch Cable, 1/4" Plugs,
> 24"? ???$6.50? ? ???QP4MM-36? ???Patch Cable, 1/4"
> Plugs, 36"? ???$7.50? ? ???QP4MM-48? ???Patch Cable,
> 1/4" Plugs, 48"? ???$8.50? ? ???QP4MM-72? ???Patch
> Cable, 1/4" Plugs, 72"? ???$9.50? ???
> Regards, Ethan
> 
> David G. Dixon wrote:
> > This is something which is also starting to weigh
> heavily on my mind as
> > well.? I am preternaturally thrifty (some would say
> I'm so tight I creak
> > when I walk...), and super-de-duper fancy patch cords
> seem like a very quick
> > way to break the bank.? I've seen some which look
> like they are different
> > colors, the cable isn't very thick, and the plugs
> appear to be molded out of
> > plastic which is the same color as the cord.? These
> look like they wouldn't
> > cost the earth, but maybe they're not so
> durable...?? Also, I'm not that
> > keen on making my own, as just the thought of
> stripping and soldering coax
> > shielding to those little plug internals is enough to
> break me out in a cold
> > sweat.
> > 
> > So, how much to these things generally cost, where
> does one get 'em, and are
> > the little colored ones I describe really so terrible?
> > 
> >???
> >> Quoth Horton at 2009-03-05 07:03...
> >>? ???
> >>> Hey, guys - I'd like to try to build some
> of my own 1/4" instrument
> >>> and patch cables. They're so expensive and
> hard to find in certain
> >>> shorter lengths, and I need a million for my
> modular synth anyway. Can
> >>> somebody recommend some good web tutorials on
> doing this? How about
> >>> some general advice if you've done it,
> too?
> >>>? ? ???
> >> Two points that spring immediately to mind:
> >> 
> >> 1) Use heavy-duty plugs and cable.
> >> 
> >> 2) Unless the plugs have some very fancy and
> robust strain relief,
> >> heatshrink sleeving is your friend.
> >>? ???
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >???
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



      Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu Mar  5 04:54:21 2009
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 19:54:21 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
In-Reply-To: <a9ce79240903041233i6b3124e5r90526d53bea487cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9ce79240903041233i6b3124e5r90526d53bea487cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090305035421.GD25810@moo.sysabend.org>

On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 02:33:06PM -0600, Horton wrote:
> Hey, guys - I'd like to try to build some of my own 1/4" instrument
> and patch cables. They're so expensive and hard to find in certain
> shorter lengths, and I need a million for my modular synth anyway. Can
> somebody recommend some good web tutorials on doing this? How about
> some general advice if you've done it, too?

Its not "cheap" to build'em yourself and do a nice job.

Best price I've found on Switchcraft 280 plugs is $1.99ea. ( guitarcenter )
although you can occasionally find them cheaper there ( on sale for $1.55
when I last bought'em ) buy 50 and get free shipping.

I lucked out and got a 500' roll of Philmore brand 1 conductor with shield
mic/insrument cord for $119.  Quality is tolerable but its no Belkin.  So
even if you luck out and catch sale prices on stuff you're looking at $4.10
for a 4' patch cord plus the time to assemble it.  Dont forget a few cents
for strain relief like heatshrink tubing.

Looking for a quick price comparison, the Horizon cables I used to buy which
are Horizon branded cable ( about the same as the Philmore ) with
switchcraft plugs and come in 8zillion colours, are $7.99 pre-made for a 15' 
cable.  If you made your own you'd only save a dollar or so.  And odds are
yours will all be black, maybe with different colour strain relief.

Its not much savings and a lot of time.  Not a big deal for me, making
cables is something I can do to keep my hands busy while I watch TV or
something.

Now, when it comes to 1/8" cables, I've yet to find any off the shelf that
weren't molded connectors, or had tolerable metal connectors.  They are
usually the cheapest crap connectors they could find.  I make my own with
Belkin cable and Neutrik connectors and they are better then any I've seen
commercially although more expensive ( connectors 60cents and cable about
15cents/foot ).  They are seriously tedious to make however.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From dave.leith at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 05:34:22 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:34:22 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
In-Reply-To: <20090305035421.GD25810@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <a9ce79240903041233i6b3124e5r90526d53bea487cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090305035421.GD25810@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903042034m5d51b16cgf28133f2ac2ef87a@mail.gmail.com>

Switchcraft makes molded true 1/8 inch cables that fit their jacks
correctly. Buchla uses these.

Someone on the Muffwiggler forum was trying to arrange a group buy. I
have some of these cables (ARP) from the 70's and they are still
working.

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3133

Dave

On 3/4/09, Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 02:33:06PM -0600, Horton wrote:
>  > Hey, guys - I'd like to try to build some of my own 1/4" instrument
>  > and patch cables. They're so expensive and hard to find in certain
>  > shorter lengths, and I need a million for my modular synth anyway. Can
>  > somebody recommend some good web tutorials on doing this? How about
>  > some general advice if you've done it, too?
>
>
> Its not "cheap" to build'em yourself and do a nice job.
>
>  Best price I've found on Switchcraft 280 plugs is $1.99ea. ( guitarcenter )
>  although you can occasionally find them cheaper there ( on sale for $1.55
>  when I last bought'em ) buy 50 and get free shipping.
>
>  I lucked out and got a 500' roll of Philmore brand 1 conductor with shield
>  mic/insrument cord for $119.  Quality is tolerable but its no Belkin.  So
>  even if you luck out and catch sale prices on stuff you're looking at $4.10
>  for a 4' patch cord plus the time to assemble it.  Dont forget a few cents
>  for strain relief like heatshrink tubing.
>
>  Looking for a quick price comparison, the Horizon cables I used to buy which
>  are Horizon branded cable ( about the same as the Philmore ) with
>  switchcraft plugs and come in 8zillion colours, are $7.99 pre-made for a 15'
>  cable.  If you made your own you'd only save a dollar or so.  And odds are
>  yours will all be black, maybe with different colour strain relief.
>
>  Its not much savings and a lot of time.  Not a big deal for me, making
>  cables is something I can do to keep my hands busy while I watch TV or
>  something.
>
>  Now, when it comes to 1/8" cables, I've yet to find any off the shelf that
>  weren't molded connectors, or had tolerable metal connectors.  They are
>  usually the cheapest crap connectors they could find.  I make my own with
>  Belkin cable and Neutrik connectors and they are better then any I've seen
>  commercially although more expensive ( connectors 60cents and cable about
>  15cents/foot ).  They are seriously tedious to make however.
>
>
>  --
>   -----------------------------------------------------------------
>   - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org
>   - SynthGeek        -
>   - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>   - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>   --------------------
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Synth-diy mailing list
>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Thu Mar  5 05:44:42 2009
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:44:42 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903042034m5d51b16cgf28133f2ac2ef87a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9ce79240903041233i6b3124e5r90526d53bea487cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090305035421.GD25810@moo.sysabend.org>
	<eaacbb730903042034m5d51b16cgf28133f2ac2ef87a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090305044442.GE25810@moo.sysabend.org>

On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 08:34:22PM -0800, Dave Leith wrote:
> Switchcraft makes molded true 1/8 inch cables that fit their jacks
> correctly. Buchla uses these.

I just don't like molded plugs. :-)  If I hadnt found a connector I liked (
the Neutrik ) I would probably prefer good molded over crappy metal
though...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From cary.roberts at retrosynth.net  Thu Mar  5 09:13:40 2009
From: cary.roberts at retrosynth.net (Cary Roberts)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 00:13:40 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] building your own instrument/patch cables
Message-ID: <27FA3FB5A814451FAACC9B84ADBF6A4B@onlive.corp>

>Switchcraft makes molded true 1/8 inch cables that fit their jacks
>correctly. Buchla uses these.

I wish folks would stop calling these 1/8" jacks.  They are not 1/8" and
never were.

Switchcraft makes the Tini-Jax line which is .145" ID for the jack and .141"
OD for the plug.  3.5mm jacks are .142" ID and .138" OD for the plug.  The
big difference is that Switchcraft plug is slightly longer than the 3.5mm
equivalent, and the tip is tapered slightly different.  The retention issue
with 3.5mm cables in Switchcraft Tini-Jax jacks is due to the tip length,
not the diameter of the plug.  The problem is exasperated by the lower
quality and tolerances of most 3.5mm jacks.

FYI - never ever use Switchcraft .141" cables with 3.5mm jacks.  You'll
trash the jacks in no time.

-Cary



From louis at dompselaar.org  Thu Mar  5 09:19:36 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:19:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <a06200764c5d471514c4b@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>
	<00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>
	<74847ADA-3744-4B51-A1A9-DD9B8E3FEA38@electricdruid.net>
	<a06200764c5d471514c4b@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <4AAF27D3-F1D6-488E-BF09-E70DECD1A032@dompselaar.org>

>
> another option is the Blacet MIDI Sync preprogrammed PIC, but having  
> taken that route a while back i strongly suggest talking to me first  
> before doing any construction.

And considering Blacet asks $24 for that PIC to be shipped outside the  
US almost all other options are cheaper ;-)
(and it just doens't feel right to have to pay $24 to ship a single IC)



From matt at smiffytech.com  Thu Mar  5 10:03:40 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:33:40 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <4AAF27D3-F1D6-488E-BF09-E70DECD1A032@dompselaar.org>
References: <BAY144-W87799481D1E4F0875437DC8A70@phx.gbl>	<00c701c99ce5$3e03a580$ba0af080$@net>	<74847ADA-3744-4B51-A1A9-DD9B8E3FEA38@electricdruid.net>	<a06200764c5d471514c4b@[10.0.1.4]>
	<4AAF27D3-F1D6-488E-BF09-E70DECD1A032@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <49AF956C.7060100@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Louis van Dompselaar at 2009-03-05 18:49...
> And considering Blacet asks $24 for that PIC to be shipped outside the  
> US almost all other options are cheaper ;-)
> (and it just doens't feel right to have to pay $24 to ship a single IC)

Common problem.  I've found several companies in the USA who won't 
use/don't trust USPS for overseas shipments (probably with good reason, 
considering some destinations) and tend to use the likes of FedEx 
instead - and that's the sort of price you have to pay.

This becomes more economical if you buy more stuff from a particular 
vendor - 10 devices will often ship for the same as 1 so that your $24 
shipping per item becomes a more healthy $2.40.

I just wish that the Aussie Dollar vs US Dollar would go back to where 
it was mid-year last year - I was having an absolute ball, even when 
paying FedEx rates.  (Things acquired over here tend to be marked up by 
ridiculous amounts.)  Ah, those were the days ;-)

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From cheater00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 10:10:12 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:10:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <0KFV00FPUCSTWH@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <cf1e1cb10903012208s6875f73chac536010f29ef24e@mail.gmail.com>
	<0KFV00FPUCSTWH@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903050110s14399b77o12b464597059ea62@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,
I'd suggest being aware that David's reply was at least a little bit misleading.
I asked David in private to correct his mistakes, cursorily pointing
them out, only to meet with an attack in return and lack of action by
David for several days.

Let's go through the post and spot the problems. There are some
excerpts of my private conversation with David in this post and a full
quote in the attachment.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, David G. Dixon <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
> Dan,
>
> A triangle pointing up to the left of a variable (say, x) is to be read
> "Delta x" and it simply means "macroscopic change in x" or "x_2 minus x_1"
> (as opposed to "dx" from calculus, which means "infinitesimal change in x"
> and is the limit as Delta approaches zero).

Not really. Stochastic and other finite-differential equations are
very uncommon in analogue electronics, you're not very likely to come
across those. The most common use of the Delta symbol (notice the big
D which means it's a big Delta as opposed to the small delta as used
in e.g. continuity proofs) is with quadratic equations, where it is
used for the discriminant of the equation. Everyone knows this
formula:

Delta = b^2 - 4ac.

I write this in hope the readers of this list not advanced with
mathematics will have a chance to learn it, instead of (wrongly)
wondering why you're taking a square root of a differential in order
to find the root of a parabola.

>  If the triangle is pointing
> down, this is to be read "del x" or "nabla x" and is simply a stand-in for
> the differential expression "dx/d?".

This isn't true. The expression you used is valid, but not in the
context you meant. the right expression you are looking for might be
Del y = dy/dx, but that's still wrong (it's fixable in single-valued
single-variable functions where you can define the ortonormal base to
be {1}). However, as you can check for example on wikipedia, Del y is
an operator which gives you a vector of partial derivatives. A partial
derivative is written with a curly 'd', which can be signified by @ on
the internet. You can see this curly 'd' on the partial derivative
article on Wikipedia.

Suppose you have a function y of three variables x_1, x_2, x_3: y =
f(x_1, x_2, x_3). Suppose your vector space has the ortonormal base
{i, j, k}.
Then, Del y = @y/@x_1* i + @y/@x_2 * j + @y/@x_3 * k.

In the simplest form, i is the vector (1, 0, 0), j is (0, 1, 0), and k
is (0, 0, 1).
As you can see we get a vector.

Some more advanced people might point out that in dimensions higher
than 1 when calculating the (total) derivative of a function we get a
matrix. That is still not the vector signified by the Del operator.

> Generally, if x is differentiable by
> more than one independent variable (for example, say x is a 2D variable in
> the y-z plane, so it may be differentiated separately with respect to y or z
> (i.e., dx/dy and dx/dz), then the upside-down triangle (or nabla) signifies
> all possible differentials at once.

Those are partial derivatives. As you can see here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del#Definition
They're using that funny curly d. And they're not 'all at once',
they're components of a vector.

>  This is what we call "vector notation"
> as it doesn't differentiate between the various dimensions of the problem.
> There is a whole subfield of calculus called "vector calculus" which deals
> with this.

Vector calculus deals with vector-valued functions which the Del
operator does not apply to. The Del operator applies only to
vector-argument functions, which is a very big difference from the
point of view of what tools you can use in mathematics to analyze such
a function. The study of functions that take vectors as their
arguments is called multivariable calculus or, less often,
multivariate calculus.

> Your question is a good one, because it leads directly to the most
> fundamental idea in differential calculus; namely, the "central limit
> theorem".  This says that a function evaluated at x + Delta-x minus that
> function evaluated at x, all over Delta x, approaches the differential df/dx
> as Delta-x approaches zero.  Draw a random curve on an x-y plot, take any
> two points on the curve, and draw a straight line through them.  This is the
> algebraic linear slope of those two points, or "Delta-y/Delta-x".  Now
> slowly bring one point closer to the other, continuing to draw straight
> lines through the two points.  When the two points essentially become one,
> the last straight line you draw is the tangent slope of the function f(x) at
> point x, or df(x)/dx.  This, in a nutshell, is differential calculus.  Every
> single-valued function (i.e., one which has only one value at a given x) has
> a unique differential (or tangent slope) at every point (unless there is a
> discontinuity, or step-change, in which case there are two -- one on either
> side of the step).  See?  It's really not that hard.  You can prove that
> calculus is correct by taking two points an equal small distance in x from
> the point of interest, say x+ and x-, by solving (f(x+) - f(x-))/(x+ - x-).
> This will give you a very close approximation of df/dx at x (in the middle).
> We call this the "finite difference approximation method".

This is a very fuzzy reminiscence of something once seen on a
blackboard. This is actually the classical way of teaching children
about derivatives. Take a smooth curve, fix a point x, find a point x'
a bit away from it on that same curve, calculate the slope between the
points and you get an approximation of the derivative at x of the
function generating the curve. The closer x' is to x, the better the
approximation for such curves. Now let's see what can be fixed about
your explanation of this:

> Your question is a good one, because it leads directly to the most
> fundamental idea in differential calculus; namely, the "central limit
> theorem".

The central limit theorem is a theorem in statistics, and has nothing
to do with the topic.

> This says that a function evaluated at x + Delta-x minus that
> function evaluated at x, all over Delta x, approaches the differential df/dx
> as Delta-x approaches zero.

I am guessing (looking past the terrible notation) that you mean the
fact that for a function f,

lim_((Delta x )-> 0) ( f(x+ Delta x) - f(x) )/(Delta x) )

can exist, and if it exists then its numeric value at x is the
derivative of f at x, signified by f'(x) or df/dx(x). This is Newton's
definition of the derivative, and not a theorem. It's very important
to understand this, since it just makes you look funny in
conversations.

> Draw a random curve on an x-y plot, take any
> two points on the curve, and draw a straight line through them.  This is the
> algebraic linear slope of those two points, or "Delta-y/Delta-x".

To be strict, it's a line, and this line's slope is what we call Deltay/Deltax.

> Now
> slowly bring one point closer to the other

David, you forgot to mention that we can't move the x point, only the
'other point', otherwise we're not calculating the differential at x
anymore.

> continuing to draw straight
> lines through the two points.  When the two points essentially become one,
> the last straight line you draw is the tangent slope of the function f(x) at
> point x, or df(x)/dx.

Only if such a slope is uniquely defined! This is what is meant in
Newton's definition by the words 'if the limit exists'. Take for
example a function which looks a bit like the triangle wave, except it
only has one 'valley':

f(x) = |x|. This looks a little bit like this: \/
with the valley being in the point 0 and the left branch extending
towards x=-infinity in the same way as y=-x, while the right branch
extends towards x=+infinity in the same way as y=x.

Now if you look at that valley, the point (x, y) = (0, 0), then by
calculating differently you can get different results. The by taking
closer and closer approximations with the 'second point' being to the
right of the Y axis, you will get the value +1, with the points being
to the left of Y you get the value -1, and without such restrictions,
your term

f(x+ Delta x) - f(x) )/(Delta x)

will randomly alternate between +1 and -1 yielding no limit at all.

Hence the function is not differentiable, but by using your wrong
'test' one might be drawn to think that it is.

Also, to fully scrutinize, the statement 'last line you draw' is
pretty wrong, since you're talking about a process with an infinite
amount of possible iterations. Sure, you can stop somewhere and look,
but there's no 'last line'. There's always another line that can be
drawn which will (for some functions) approximate the function's
derivative better.

> This, in a nutshell, is differential calculus.

I cringe at the day when people start teaching this as differential calculus *

> Every
> single-valued function (i.e., one which has only one value at a given x) has
> a unique differential (or tangent slope) at every point

NO.

> (unless there is a
> discontinuity, or step-change, in which case there are two -- one on either
> side of the step).

NO.

Most functions don't even have a one-sided derivative at any point.
There are functions that are not differentiable at any point.

What you mean is that for a function differentiable everywhere in the
neighborhood of a point, but not at the point itself, there are two
values you could get (like the -1 taking the 'left derivative' and +1
taking the 'right derivative' from our function |x| earlier). This is
misleading to say that this happens in every, or even the *majority*
of situations.

If you consider all functions that can be defined on the real numbers
and which have values that are real numbers, so your usual, normal,
pleasant functions f(x) : R->R, then if you try to randomly choose a
function, the probability can be calculated that you find one that's
differentiable at even a signle point. This probability is 0,
demonstrating how rare those functions actually are, and demonstrating
how important it is to add certain warnings to any statement about
mathematical objects.

> See?  It's really not that hard.

It actually is. It is hard and you did not understand it.

> You can prove that
> calculus is correct by taking two points an equal small distance in x from
> the point of interest, say x+ and x-, by solving (f(x+) - f(x-))/(x+ - x-).

...again in some practical situations only. Not in all, not even in
most. Only for continuous functions that are everywhere differentiable
can you allow yourself such mental slack.

> This will give you a very close approximation of df/dx at x (in the middle).
> We call this the "finite difference approximation method".

> Sometimes it almost seems like magic that this calculus stuff works, but it
> always does!
>
> David G. Dixon
> Professor
> Department of Materials Engineering
> University of British Columbia
> 309-6350 Stores Road
> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> Canada

David, I am surprised that you undersign your email with the title of
Professor, but display a lack of understanding of calculus that most
children in my country have mastered by the time they're freshmen in
high school. This is truly appalling that you give your posts some
mark of quality with this title, yet spew total and utter
disinformation. The things I pointed out are not 'a mathematician's
mockings'. They're not even nit picking. Those are not concepts 'only
mathematicians need to care about' - those are very basic concepts
that literally *have* to be understood by every engineer who wants to
be successful in what he does. Many of the mistakes were not in the
details, but in the gross meaning of what you were saying.

I post this mostly because almost all of those concepts you have taken
on are important parts of a base for further knowledge to be built
upon. Those concepts are used even in teaching people who will not use
them later on, just to create a pattern of thought that can be later
related to. Like Newton's definition of a derivative, which you
completely butchered and, defiling Newton's name, removed it from the
name of the definition showing a complete disregard for one of the
greatest thinkers in written history.

The act of not recognizing something as basic as the definition of the
derivative, or multiple instances of mistaking the derivative for a
differential all add up to my judgment that you are in no way fit to
teach people about calculus. Please don't do so.

I certainly hope you do not teach where ever you are called Professor.
If you do, please *at least* take the time to revise. This is your job
and you are doing it wrong. As a Professor you need to have a PhD
which stands for Doctor of Philosophy. It is certainly required for a
Doctor of Philosophy to know the most important theorems conceived by
some of the most important philosophers to exist to date, like
Leibniz, Newton, or Cauchy.

It's never the wrong time to go back to books, and I know it might
look funny for a Professor to sit down with an undergrad or even high
school level book, but I think it's better to do that than to find
yourself in a situation like this one where you start talking and
don't even realize you might be wrong. Or judging by your response
off-list, don't even admit the possibility.

When looking at your signature of 'Perfecta fingamus serviat natura',
I wonder if it really means you are a servant in taking nature apart
to see how it works, or if the 'fingere' in your slogan actually uses
the other meaning, which would turn out to 'servant in feigning
nature'. I can't say you had me tricked with your version of nature,
though.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:58 AM, David G. Dixon <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
> Dear Cheater,
>
>> David,
>> I've found your post to be highly offensive to any mathematician
>
> Well, I'm an engineer, so I officially don't care!
>
>> and very disinformative. I am posting this off-list to give you a chance
>> to correct this yourself. Please do so, something has to be said
>> on-list by someone. If nothing happens I will post an errata.
>
> If your "errata" are as incoherent as your rebuttal, then heaven help us
> all!
>
>>
>> Best regards
>> D.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, David G. Dixon <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca>
>> wrote:
>
>
>> > Dan,
>> >
>> > A triangle pointing up to the left of a variable (say, x) is to be read
>> > "Delta x" and it simply means "macroscopic change in x" or "x_2 minus
>> x_1"
>> > (as opposed to "dx" from calculus, which means "infinitesimal change in
>> x"
>> > and is the limit as Delta approaches zero).
>
>
>>
>> Unclear. Someone learning calculus will just get confused by this.
>>
>
> Perhaps, but accurate nonetheless. ?I don't know how else to say it. ?Delta
> is a triangle pointing up, and it means "difference". ?Nabla is an
> upside-down Delta, and it means "differential (as a vector, i.e., in 3D).
>
>> > If the triangle is pointing
>> > down, this is to be read "del x" or "nabla x" and is simply a stand-in
>> for
>> > the differential expression "dx/d?".
>>
>
>> Wrong.
>
> How so? ?I tried to clarify below...
>
>> Well, I wonder if the water in your pipes flows against gravity with
>> this definition.
>
> I think you are confusing the definition of nabla with the constitutive laws
> which govern most physical processes, in which the flux of any conservable
> quantity is proportional to the negative gradient of some intensive property
> related to that quantity (e.g., Fourier's law of heat conduction, in which
> heat flows in the direction of the negative temperature gradient, and which
> is generally written "q = -k [nabla] T" or, in one direction, say x, "q = -k
> dT/dx", where q is heat flux, k is thermal conductivity, T is temperature,
> and x is distance along some direction)
>
>> >?Generally, if x is differentiable by
>> > more than one independent variable (for example, say x is a 2D variable
>> in
>> > the y-z plane, so it may be differentiated separately with respect to y
>> or z
>> > (i.e., dx/dy and dx/dz), then the upside-down triangle (or nabla)
>> signifies
>> > all possible differentials at once.
>
>> Do you mean it signifies a sum of all partial derivatives? Big difference.
>
> No, I most emphatically do not mean that, and yes, it is a big difference.
> It signifies exactly what I said it signifies: all the differentials at
> once, as components of a 3D vector.
>
>> >?This is what we call "vector notation"
>> > as it doesn't differentiate between the various dimensions of the
>> problem.
>> > There is a whole subfield of calculus called "vector calculus" which
>> deals
>> > with this. ?In fact, in my professional work, I tend to use vector
>> calculus
>> > quite often, as I am dealing with flow in 3D, and vector calculus is
>> more
>> > convenient for me in this regard (as I only have to do it once, rather
>> than
>> > 3 times).
>> >
>> > Your question is a good one, because it leads directly to the most
>> > fundamental idea in differential calculus; namely, the "central limit
>> > theorem". ?This says that a function evaluated at x + Delta-x minus that
>> > function evaluated at x, all over Delta x, approaches the differential
>> df/dx
>> > as Delta-x approaches zero. ?Draw a random curve on an x-y plot,
>
>> ...which is as unprobable a function as anything else, since curves
>> are a set of measure zero in the set of functions wherefore this
>> example does not define the differential without explaining this quite
>> important bit of information..
>
> You lost me there, I'm afraid...
>
>> > take any
>> > two points on the curve, and draw a straight line through them. ?This is
>> the
>> > algebraic linear slope of those two points,
>
>> Is not.
>
> Perhaps my English was lacking here a little, but as Dan is American like me
> (and therefore illiterate by definition), he'll probably understand what I
> was trying to say just fine! ?(Do you, Dan? ;->) ?Of course it helps if the
> curve is singly-valued, and not, say, an S shape, although the trick will
> still work for the latter.
>
>> > or "Delta-y/Delta-x". ?Now
>> > slowly bring one point closer to the other, continuing to draw straight
>> > lines through the two points. ?When the two points essentially become
>> one,
>> > the last straight line you draw
>
>> Which would never happen, unless we're considering a function that is
>> a straight segment curve..
>
> It happens all the time, D.! ?That's why Newton and Leibniz were so fond of
> it! ?Give it a try sometime!
>
>> > is the tangent slope of the function f(x) at
>> > point x, or df(x)/dx. ?This, in a nutshell, is differential calculus.
>> ?Every
>> > single-valued function (i.e., one which has only one value at a given x)
>> has
>> > a unique differential (or tangent slope) at every point (unless there is
>> a
>> > discontinuity, or step-change, in which case there are two -- one on
>> either
>> > side of the step).
>>
>> This is just awesomely wrong and misinformative
>
> Whatever. ?If you can explain the central limit theorem any better without
> the use of diagrams, be my guest!
>
>> >?See? ?It's really not that hard. ?You can prove that
>> > calculus is correct by taking two points an equal small distance in x
>> from
>> > the point of interest, say x+ and x-, by solving (f(x+) - f(x-))/(x+ -
>> x-).
>> > This will give you a very close approximation of df/dx at x (in the
>> middle).
>> > We call this the "finite difference approximation method".
>> >
>> > Sometimes it almost seems like magic that this calculus stuff works, but
>> it
>> > always does!
>> >
>> > David G. Dixon
>> > Professor
>> > Department of Materials Engineering
>> > University of British Columbia
>> > 309-6350 Stores Road
>> > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
>> > Canada
>> >
>> > Tel 1-604-822-3679
>> > Fax 1-604-822-3619
>> >
>> > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>> >
>> > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
>> > intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). ?It
>> > must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority. ?If
>> you
>> > are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering
>> it to
>> > the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
>> > copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Dan Snazelle [mailto:subjectivity at hotmail.com]
>> >> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:39 PM
>> >> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca; sdiy
>> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ok
>> >>
>> >> what about if it has little triangles? (are these delta? what school of
>> >> math is this? algebra?)
>> >>
>> >> also...i keep reading about transform functions...is that calculus?
>> >>
>> >> i am also seeing a few other weird symbols pop up.
>> >> thanks so much
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> spending my saturday night reading "mastering technical mathematics"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --------------------------------------------
>> >> check out various dan music at:
>> >>
>> >> ?http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>> >>
>> >> (updated monthly)
>> >>
>> >> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>> >>
>> >> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>> >>
>> >> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>> >>
>> >> AUDIO ARK:
>> >>
>> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>> >>
>> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>> >>
>> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:47:50 -0800
>> >> > From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca
>> >> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
>> >> > To: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> >> >
>> >> > Dan,
>> >> >
>> >> > If it's got "d something" over "d something" in it, its differential
>> >> > calculus (the d's on top and the somethings on the bottom can also
>> have
>> >> > exponents). ?If it has a big S-shaped thingy to the left of
>> everything
>> >> > (often with little numbers or symbols above and below it), with a "d
>> >> > something" at the far right, its integral calculus. ?If its got "e"
>> or
>> >> "exp"
>> >> > or "ln" or "log", then its an exponential or logarithmic function.
>> ?If
>> >> it's
>> >> > got "sin" or "cos" or "tan" or "cot" or "sec" or "csc", with or
>> without
>> >> an
>> >> > "arc" in front or an "h" behind, then its trigonometry. ?If
>> everything
>> >> is a
>> >> > function of "s" then it's a Laplace transform. ?Alternatively, if
>> >> everything
>> >> > is a function of "jw" (where the "w" is really an undercase omega),
>> then
>> >> > it's a Fourier transform, which is really a Laplace transform where s
>> =
>> >> jw.
>> >> > If it's got lots of "j"s all over the place, then its complex math.
>> >> > Otherwise, it's just algebra! ?(See how easy it all is?!? ?;->)
>> >> >
>> >> > David G. Dixon
>> >> > Professor
>> >> > Department of Materials Engineering
>> >> > University of British Columbia
>> >> > 309-6350 Stores Road
>> >> > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
>> >> > Canada
>> >> >
>> >> > Tel 1-604-822-3679
>> >> > Fax 1-604-822-3619
>> >> >
>> >> > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>> >> >
>> >> > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential
>> and
>> >> > intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).
>> ?It
>> >> > must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.
>> ?If
>> >> you
>> >> > are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for
>> delivering
>> >> it to
>> >> > the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not
>> disclose,
>> >> > copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
>> >> >
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: Dan Snazelle [mailto:subjectivity at hotmail.com]
>> >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:49 AM
>> >> >> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca; sdiy
>> >> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> My advice to Dan and others would be not to set out to "learn
>> math",
>> >> but
>> >> >>> only electronics. ?When something mathematical arises that you
>> don't
>> >> >>> understand, then learn the specific bit of math required to get
>> over
>> >> the
>> >> >>> hump -- read a wiki, ask a friend, crack a textbook, whatever --
>> but
>> >> >> always
>> >> >>> only in the service of electronics. ?This way, the math will slip
>> in
>> >> by
>> >> >>> osmosis.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> one question i have about this good advice is how to TELL what i AM
>> >> >> LOOKING AT. (so i can understand a specific bit)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> for example I just got the book on non linear electronics from
>> analog
>> >> >> devices. It seems full of ?great stuff BUT is full of equations.
>> >> >> however how can i tell just from looking at some weird equation what
>> i
>> >> >> will need to learn to understand it
>> >> >> ? it's not as if they say "this is from algebra 2 or this is from
>> calc"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> so ?that right there makes the piecemeal approach hard at times.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> thanks
>> >> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >
>
>



From tom.adam at thebigear.be  Thu Mar  5 10:36:33 2009
From: tom.adam at thebigear.be (Tom Adam)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:36:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <4AAF27D3-F1D6-488E-BF09-E70DECD1A032@dompselaar.org>
References: <a06200764c5d471514c4b@[10.0.1.4]>
	<4AAF27D3-F1D6-488E-BF09-E70DECD1A032@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <20090305093634.80B5F2C0069B@bmail01.one.com>

I need to check but I'm pretty sure I didn't pay 24$ for just sending the IC. I supose the 24$ is for kits or modules.

But I never got the IC to work at all. I decided to go for a 16Euro Arduino that does the job just fine. So if any EU guy wants to try this IC, please contact me.

Cheers,
ToAd
www.thebigear.be


On Mar 5, 2009 09:19 "Louis van Dompselaar" <louis at dompselaar.org>
wrote:
> >
> > another option is the Blacet MIDI Sync preprogrammed PIC, but having
> > 
> > taken that route a while back i strongly suggest talking to me first
> > 
> > before doing any construction.
> 
> And considering Blacet asks $24 for that PIC to be shipped outside the
> US almost all other options are cheaper ;-)
> (and it just doens't feel right to have to pay $24 to ship a single
> IC)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 11:46:43 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 10:46:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <20090305093634.80B5F2C0069B@bmail01.one.com>
References: <a06200764c5d471514c4b@10.0.1.4>
	<4AAF27D3-F1D6-488E-BF09-E70DECD1A032@dompselaar.org>
	<20090305093634.80B5F2C0069B@bmail01.one.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903050246m5b9d46b3o2c6cf730d0ae8146@mail.gmail.com>

I suggest doing things the other way around: sync the pc to the modular!
Record the gates from your modular, they will show up in your host.
You can warp the tempo to the gates. This will give you a nice fluid
rhythm.

D.

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Tom Adam <tom.adam at thebigear.be> wrote:
> I need to check but I'm pretty sure I didn't pay 24$ for just sending the IC. I supose the 24$ is for kits or modules.
>
> But I never got the IC to work at all. I decided to go for a 16Euro Arduino that does the job just fine. So if any EU guy wants to try this IC, please contact me.
>
> Cheers,
> ToAd
> www.thebigear.be
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2009 09:19 "Louis van Dompselaar" <louis at dompselaar.org>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > another option is the Blacet MIDI Sync preprogrammed PIC, but having
>> >
>> > taken that route a while back i strongly suggest talking to me first
>> >
>> > before doing any construction.
>>
>> And considering Blacet asks $24 for that PIC to be shipped outside the
>> US almost all other options are cheaper ;-)
>> (and it just doens't feel right to have to pay $24 to ship a single
>> IC)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Thu Mar  5 14:08:05 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:08:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
Message-ID: <60163.1236258485@oricom.ca>

Hi Colin,
Here are some calculations I made..

Assuming I want an adjustable range of 2msec to 5sec portamento
from note A to note B, for CV's I use 12bits DAC's but keep the 7 MSB'S
for MIDI notes (128 notes). That leaves 5 bits for glide between
2 halftones. OK. (no staircase effect) so I need to keep these 5 bits
for each halftone glides.. no matter the distance between
note A to note B. So this brings me to the following point:
Suppose I want to glide between 2 notes 7 octaves apart
that means 7 X 12 halftones X 32 steps= 2688 DAC steps.. right?
i need these 2688 steps in a 5 sec portamento to hear
a glide without staircase effect..
But doing so,  the worst case in my example is min portamento which is
2 msec overall glide time --> 2msec. / 2688 steps = 744nanosec. per DAC steps!!!!

Do you have a solution on that?
I probably mistake myself in my calculations..(?)

JP


 On Wed 04/03/09 20:36 , "Colin f" colin at colinfraser.com sent:
> 
> > Software method.. Good idea! But I don't want to
> load> the 'analysis' time for each received MIDI bytes
> to CV outs.. > wondering..
> > I'm using a PIC16F877 at 20mHz.
> 
> Analysis time isn't an issue if you're receiving MIDI data in an
> interruptroutine which then updates a state table for the code generating the
> glide.The glide code must run at a fixed sample rate - easily done in a timer
> interrupt, with a lower priority than the serial interrupts.
> 
> On a current project, I'm using a PIC 18F4520 with a 16-bit DAC.
> The DAC is demultiplexed between 8 outputs.
> The PIC is calculating an RC curve at 16-bit resolution for each
> output,with a total refresh time for all channels of 1ms.
> There's plenty CPU time left over for MIDI handling, voice allocation and
> soon.
> A PIC 16F877 only manages half the speed of the 18F part, but for
> 12-bitvalues, and fewer outputs, it should manage the same sort of refresh
> speed.
> Not only could you save on the hardware glide circuits, you could save
> onthe DACs by swapping all but one of them for a 4051 and some op-amp
> buffers.
> Cheers,
> Colin f
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nlhttp://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 



From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Thu Mar  5 14:58:36 2009
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 15:58:36 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
In-Reply-To: <60163.1236258485@oricom.ca>
References: <60163.1236258485@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.64.0903051556220.66212@kosh.hut.fi>

On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

> i need these 2688 steps in a 5 sec portamento to hear
> a glide without staircase effect..
> But doing so,  the worst case in my example is min portamento which is
> 2 msec overall glide time --> 2msec. / 2688 steps = 744nanosec. per DAC steps!!!!
>
> Do you have a solution on that?

Yes. You keep a constant update rate and stick an RC smoothing filter 
after the dac. The RC filter time constant should be about the same as 
your update rate. So for 1 kHz update rate the TC would be 1ms.

If you don't have enough cpu to calculate RC glide at 1 kHz rate, you can 
lower that rate to say 1/10th and use linear interpolation in-between.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From andylist at vellocet.com  Thu Mar  5 15:29:52 2009
From: andylist at vellocet.com (Andrew Simper)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 14:29:52 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.64.0903051556220.66212@kosh.hut.fi>
References: <60163.1236258485@oricom.ca>
	<Pine.OSF.4.64.0903051556220.66212@kosh.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <49AFE1E0.5040906@vellocet.com>

I can definitely vouch for calculating digital RC at control rate and 
doing linear interpolation between those values. If you have a slow 
moving signal this gives very good results with minimal cpu. I've used 
this throughout the D-CAM: Synth Squad product and it is very effective.

Andy


Antti Huovilainen wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
>> i need these 2688 steps in a 5 sec portamento to hear
>> a glide without staircase effect..
>> But doing so,  the worst case in my example is min portamento which is
>> 2 msec overall glide time --> 2msec. / 2688 steps = 744nanosec. per 
>> DAC steps!!!!
>>
>> Do you have a solution on that?
>
> Yes. You keep a constant update rate and stick an RC smoothing filter 
> after the dac. The RC filter time constant should be about the same as 
> your update rate. So for 1 kHz update rate the TC would be 1ms.
>
> If you don't have enough cpu to calculate RC glide at 1 kHz rate, you 
> can lower that rate to say 1/10th and use linear interpolation 
> in-between.
>
> Antti
>
> "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
>   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu Mar  5 16:15:29 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 15:15:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
In-Reply-To: <49AFE1E0.5040906@vellocet.com>
References: <60163.1236258485@oricom.ca>
	<Pine.OSF.4.64.0903051556220.66212@kosh.hut.fi>
	<49AFE1E0.5040906@vellocet.com>
Message-ID: <B354E7B6-5C42-453B-B10E-322CF1746106@electricdruid.net>

Yes, another plus from me for this technique. Theoretically there is  
a small "kink" in the output where the straight line segments meet,  
but in practice this is never audible. The kinks are worse where the  
curve is steep, but for steep curves, you don't have enough time to  
hear it.

I've done a 65535 point envelope decay curve this way and used only  
256 data points, which means 255/256ths of the data was made up by  
the interpolation. You can't tell. The crucial thing seems to be  
output resolution and sample rate,

Jean-Pierre, you could probably use code from my PIC VCADSR project  
to generate the portamento. There's PIC 16F code there which  
generates RC curves with interpolation, and a routine for scaling  
them. In your case, you'd need to scale the curve to the difference  
between the two frequency numbers, and add an offset for the lowest  
frequency.
The VCADSR also offers the choice of the RC curve or the linear  
function, so you'd have two variations. It's up to you whether you  
think it's easier/more useful to do it yourself, but the code is  
there to be used if you want it.

T.

On 5 Mar 2009, at 14:29, Andrew Simper wrote:

> I can definitely vouch for calculating digital RC at control rate  
> and doing linear interpolation between those values. If you have a  
> slow moving signal this gives very good results with minimal cpu.  
> I've used this throughout the D-CAM: Synth Squad product and it is  
> very effective.
>
> Andy
>
>
> Antti Huovilainen wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>>
>>> i need these 2688 steps in a 5 sec portamento to hear
>>> a glide without staircase effect..
>>> But doing so,  the worst case in my example is min portamento  
>>> which is
>>> 2 msec overall glide time --> 2msec. / 2688 steps = 744nanosec.  
>>> per DAC steps!!!!
>>>
>>> Do you have a solution on that?
>>
>> Yes. You keep a constant update rate and stick an RC smoothing  
>> filter after the dac. The RC filter time constant should be about  
>> the same as your update rate. So for 1 kHz update rate the TC  
>> would be 1ms.
>>
>> If you don't have enough cpu to calculate RC glide at 1 kHz rate,  
>> you can lower that rate to say 1/10th and use linear interpolation  
>> in-between.
>>
>> Antti
>>
>> "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
>>   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu Mar  5 16:38:47 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 15:38:47 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
In-Reply-To: <B354E7B6-5C42-453B-B10E-322CF1746106@electricdruid.net>
References: <60163.1236258485@oricom.ca>
	<Pine.OSF.4.64.0903051556220.66212@kosh.hut.fi>
	<49AFE1E0.5040906@vellocet.com>
	<B354E7B6-5C42-453B-B10E-322CF1746106@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <ED608474-72CD-4FAB-957B-B11E813DC2B6@electricdruid.net>


On 5 Mar 2009, at 15:15, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> Yes, another plus from me for this technique. Theoretically there  
> is a small "kink" in the output where the straight line segments  
> meet, but in practice this is never audible. The kinks are worse  
> where the curve is steep, but for steep curves, you don't have  
> enough time to hear it.

Sorry, more accurately I should have said "when the curve is heavily  
curved" rather than "when the curve is steep".

T.





From secoff at execpc.com  Thu Mar  5 16:49:35 2009
From: secoff at execpc.com (Sam Ecoff)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:49:35 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
Message-ID: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>

Hey guys... don't know if you saw this yet.... very interesting  
concept... this guy makes music by piecing together various You Tube  
vids. Liability issues aside, it's very very cool. Noticed one of  
Thomas White's MFOS sequencer vids was assimilated. (Hopefully you're  
honored rather than feeling ripped off?)

http://thru-you.com/#/videos/4/

:-)

Sam E.


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Thu Mar  5 17:40:06 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:40:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digital pots for polyphonic portamento..
Message-ID: <40809.1236271206@oricom.ca>


Thanks a lot guys for your precious help!
JP




From djthomaswhite at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  5 17:55:49 2009
From: djthomaswhite at yahoo.com (thomas white)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:55:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
In-Reply-To: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
Message-ID: <740019.7919.qm@web55002.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


It was only a matter of time before someone would start taking advantage of all that freely accessible user created content. I think it is quite creative and the use of my videos fit the project. Fun stuff! One kind of has to realize that content post up on teh m-a-zing Internets will be public domain... atleast IMHO

Thomas White  Natural Rhythm
www.naturalrhythmmusic.com


--- On Thu, 3/5/09, Sam Ecoff <secoff at execpc.com> wrote:

> From: Sam Ecoff <secoff at execpc.com>
> Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
> To: "sdiy DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 7:49 AM
> Hey guys... don't know if you saw this yet.... very
> interesting concept... this guy makes music by piecing
> together various You Tube vids. Liability issues aside,
> it's very very cool. Noticed one of Thomas White's
> MFOS sequencer vids was assimilated. (Hopefully you're
> honored rather than feeling ripped off?)
> 
> http://thru-you.com/#/videos/4/
> 
> :-)
> 
> Sam E.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


      


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Thu Mar  5 18:08:53 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:08:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] The TL072 , part 2
In-Reply-To: <3f2ffabc0903041024n1459b14fu878a1c85df794e4d@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <007a01c99820$89c60040$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
	<0KFP009RV4DEJ3@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090226172943.0215e6a0@mail.comcast.net>
	<3f2ffabc0903041024n1459b14fu878a1c85df794e4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090305100538.020dbb58@mail.comcast.net>

At 11:24 AM 3/4/2009, Benjam?n Velasco wrote:
>  This is why I always use an OPA2227 or OP27 at this point.  An offset 
> there leads directly to a temperature drift!
>
>
>Will the OPA2277 or OPA277 do the trick?

Yes, I've also used the 277.  It has a limited slew rate, but this is OK 
since the CV summer output V is small.  If you use the dual, I'm not sure 
what the other half would be used for in a VCO.  Maybe a deglitcher in the 
waveshaper section?

Ian 




From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu Mar  5 18:22:55 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:22:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
In-Reply-To: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
Message-ID: <BDA16411-D5D8-4785-9F51-88E98D360E19@electricdruid.net>

It was my understanding that the terms of use for youtube mean that  
material posted there is regarded as in the public domain, so he can  
do what he likes with it.
If you post it on youtube, it's fair game.

T.

On 5 Mar 2009, at 15:49, Sam Ecoff wrote:

> Hey guys... don't know if you saw this yet.... very interesting  
> concept... this guy makes music by piecing together various You  
> Tube vids. Liability issues aside, it's very very cool. Noticed one  
> of Thomas White's MFOS sequencer vids was assimilated. (Hopefully  
> you're honored rather than feeling ripped off?)
>
> http://thru-you.com/#/videos/4/
>
> :-)
>
> Sam E.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From jmahoney at gate.net  Thu Mar  5 18:50:37 2009
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:50:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
In-Reply-To: <BDA16411-D5D8-4785-9F51-88E98D360E19@electricdruid.net>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
	<BDA16411-D5D8-4785-9F51-88E98D360E19@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <200903051859.n25Ix0P5004411@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

At 12:22 PM 3/5/2009, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>It was my understanding that the terms of use for youtube mean that
>material posted there is regarded as in the public domain, so he can
>do what he likes with it.
>If you post it on youtube, it's fair game.

I don't believe that my posting a copy of, say, a Bob Moog movie 
would place that movie into the public domain.

How this affects content that is posted by the copyright holder is 
another story, I guess.

Standard disclaimers apply: I am not a lawyer, etc.

John 



From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Thu Mar  5 18:57:32 2009
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:57:32 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] beagleboard...
In-Reply-To: <BDA16411-D5D8-4785-9F51-88E98D360E19@electricdruid.net>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
	<BDA16411-D5D8-4785-9F51-88E98D360E19@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE943@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>

This looks like a (another) fun toy to play with...
http://beagleboard.org/hardware


Barry




From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Thu Mar  5 20:03:48 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:03:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903050110s14399b77o12b464597059ea62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0KG100E1QRMDSK@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Dear Cheater:

Oh no you di-n't!

(PS: "Children" in your country must be a whole lot smarter than second-year
engineering undergraduates in my country!  Gosh, it must be a veritable
paradise there, what with all those "more advanced people" running around,
differentiating their quadratic vectors all day!)

David G. Dixon
Professor (That's Full Professor, with tenure!  What was the rest of my
department thinking?!?  They must've been smoking crack!)
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of cheater cheater
> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 1:10 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> 
> Hi guys,
> I'd suggest being aware that David's reply was at least a little bit
> misleading.
> I asked David in private to correct his mistakes, cursorily pointing
> them out, only to meet with an attack in return and lack of action by
> David for several days.
> 
> Let's go through the post and spot the problems. There are some
> excerpts of my private conversation with David in this post and a full
> quote in the attachment.
> 
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, David G. Dixon <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca>
> wrote:
> > Dan,
> >
> > A triangle pointing up to the left of a variable (say, x) is to be read
> > "Delta x" and it simply means "macroscopic change in x" or "x_2 minus
> x_1"
> > (as opposed to "dx" from calculus, which means "infinitesimal change in
> x"
> > and is the limit as Delta approaches zero).
> 
> Not really. Stochastic and other finite-differential equations are
> very uncommon in analogue electronics, you're not very likely to come
> across those. The most common use of the Delta symbol (notice the big
> D which means it's a big Delta as opposed to the small delta as used
> in e.g. continuity proofs) is with quadratic equations, where it is
> used for the discriminant of the equation. Everyone knows this
> formula:
> 
> Delta = b^2 - 4ac.
> 
> I write this in hope the readers of this list not advanced with
> mathematics will have a chance to learn it, instead of (wrongly)
> wondering why you're taking a square root of a differential in order
> to find the root of a parabola.
> 
> >  If the triangle is pointing
> > down, this is to be read "del x" or "nabla x" and is simply a stand-in
> for
> > the differential expression "dx/d?".
> 
> This isn't true. The expression you used is valid, but not in the
> context you meant. the right expression you are looking for might be
> Del y = dy/dx, but that's still wrong (it's fixable in single-valued
> single-variable functions where you can define the ortonormal base to
> be {1}). However, as you can check for example on wikipedia, Del y is
> an operator which gives you a vector of partial derivatives. A partial
> derivative is written with a curly 'd', which can be signified by @ on
> the internet. You can see this curly 'd' on the partial derivative
> article on Wikipedia.
> 
> Suppose you have a function y of three variables x_1, x_2, x_3: y =
> f(x_1, x_2, x_3). Suppose your vector space has the ortonormal base
> {i, j, k}.
> Then, Del y = @y/@x_1* i + @y/@x_2 * j + @y/@x_3 * k.
> 
> In the simplest form, i is the vector (1, 0, 0), j is (0, 1, 0), and k
> is (0, 0, 1).
> As you can see we get a vector.
> 
> Some more advanced people might point out that in dimensions higher
> than 1 when calculating the (total) derivative of a function we get a
> matrix. That is still not the vector signified by the Del operator.
> 
> > Generally, if x is differentiable by
> > more than one independent variable (for example, say x is a 2D variable
> in
> > the y-z plane, so it may be differentiated separately with respect to y
> or z
> > (i.e., dx/dy and dx/dz), then the upside-down triangle (or nabla)
> signifies
> > all possible differentials at once.
> 
> Those are partial derivatives. As you can see here,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del#Definition
> They're using that funny curly d. And they're not 'all at once',
> they're components of a vector.
> 
> >  This is what we call "vector notation"
> > as it doesn't differentiate between the various dimensions of the
> problem.
> > There is a whole subfield of calculus called "vector calculus" which
> deals
> > with this.
> 
> Vector calculus deals with vector-valued functions which the Del
> operator does not apply to. The Del operator applies only to
> vector-argument functions, which is a very big difference from the
> point of view of what tools you can use in mathematics to analyze such
> a function. The study of functions that take vectors as their
> arguments is called multivariable calculus or, less often,
> multivariate calculus.
> 
> > Your question is a good one, because it leads directly to the most
> > fundamental idea in differential calculus; namely, the "central limit
> > theorem".  This says that a function evaluated at x + Delta-x minus that
> > function evaluated at x, all over Delta x, approaches the differential
> df/dx
> > as Delta-x approaches zero.  Draw a random curve on an x-y plot, take
> any
> > two points on the curve, and draw a straight line through them.  This is
> the
> > algebraic linear slope of those two points, or "Delta-y/Delta-x".  Now
> > slowly bring one point closer to the other, continuing to draw straight
> > lines through the two points.  When the two points essentially become
> one,
> > the last straight line you draw is the tangent slope of the function
> f(x) at
> > point x, or df(x)/dx.  This, in a nutshell, is differential calculus.
> Every
> > single-valued function (i.e., one which has only one value at a given x)
> has
> > a unique differential (or tangent slope) at every point (unless there is
> a
> > discontinuity, or step-change, in which case there are two -- one on
> either
> > side of the step).  See?  It's really not that hard.  You can prove that
> > calculus is correct by taking two points an equal small distance in x
> from
> > the point of interest, say x+ and x-, by solving (f(x+) - f(x-))/(x+ -
> x-).
> > This will give you a very close approximation of df/dx at x (in the
> middle).
> > We call this the "finite difference approximation method".
> 
> This is a very fuzzy reminiscence of something once seen on a
> blackboard. This is actually the classical way of teaching children
> about derivatives. Take a smooth curve, fix a point x, find a point x'
> a bit away from it on that same curve, calculate the slope between the
> points and you get an approximation of the derivative at x of the
> function generating the curve. The closer x' is to x, the better the
> approximation for such curves. Now let's see what can be fixed about
> your explanation of this:
> 
> > Your question is a good one, because it leads directly to the most
> > fundamental idea in differential calculus; namely, the "central limit
> > theorem".
> 
> The central limit theorem is a theorem in statistics, and has nothing
> to do with the topic.
> 
> > This says that a function evaluated at x + Delta-x minus that
> > function evaluated at x, all over Delta x, approaches the differential
> df/dx
> > as Delta-x approaches zero.
> 
> I am guessing (looking past the terrible notation) that you mean the
> fact that for a function f,
> 
> lim_((Delta x )-> 0) ( f(x+ Delta x) - f(x) )/(Delta x) )
> 
> can exist, and if it exists then its numeric value at x is the
> derivative of f at x, signified by f'(x) or df/dx(x). This is Newton's
> definition of the derivative, and not a theorem. It's very important
> to understand this, since it just makes you look funny in
> conversations.
> 
> > Draw a random curve on an x-y plot, take any
> > two points on the curve, and draw a straight line through them.  This is
> the
> > algebraic linear slope of those two points, or "Delta-y/Delta-x".
> 
> To be strict, it's a line, and this line's slope is what we call
> Deltay/Deltax.
> 
> > Now
> > slowly bring one point closer to the other
> 
> David, you forgot to mention that we can't move the x point, only the
> 'other point', otherwise we're not calculating the differential at x
> anymore.
> 
> > continuing to draw straight
> > lines through the two points.  When the two points essentially become
> one,
> > the last straight line you draw is the tangent slope of the function
> f(x) at
> > point x, or df(x)/dx.
> 
> Only if such a slope is uniquely defined! This is what is meant in
> Newton's definition by the words 'if the limit exists'. Take for
> example a function which looks a bit like the triangle wave, except it
> only has one 'valley':
> 
> f(x) = |x|. This looks a little bit like this: \/
> with the valley being in the point 0 and the left branch extending
> towards x=-infinity in the same way as y=-x, while the right branch
> extends towards x=+infinity in the same way as y=x.
> 
> Now if you look at that valley, the point (x, y) = (0, 0), then by
> calculating differently you can get different results. The by taking
> closer and closer approximations with the 'second point' being to the
> right of the Y axis, you will get the value +1, with the points being
> to the left of Y you get the value -1, and without such restrictions,
> your term
> 
> f(x+ Delta x) - f(x) )/(Delta x)
> 
> will randomly alternate between +1 and -1 yielding no limit at all.
> 
> Hence the function is not differentiable, but by using your wrong
> 'test' one might be drawn to think that it is.
> 
> Also, to fully scrutinize, the statement 'last line you draw' is
> pretty wrong, since you're talking about a process with an infinite
> amount of possible iterations. Sure, you can stop somewhere and look,
> but there's no 'last line'. There's always another line that can be
> drawn which will (for some functions) approximate the function's
> derivative better.
> 
> > This, in a nutshell, is differential calculus.
> 
> I cringe at the day when people start teaching this as differential
> calculus *
> 
> > Every
> > single-valued function (i.e., one which has only one value at a given x)
> has
> > a unique differential (or tangent slope) at every point
> 
> NO.
> 
> > (unless there is a
> > discontinuity, or step-change, in which case there are two -- one on
> either
> > side of the step).
> 
> NO.
> 
> Most functions don't even have a one-sided derivative at any point.
> There are functions that are not differentiable at any point.
> 
> What you mean is that for a function differentiable everywhere in the
> neighborhood of a point, but not at the point itself, there are two
> values you could get (like the -1 taking the 'left derivative' and +1
> taking the 'right derivative' from our function |x| earlier). This is
> misleading to say that this happens in every, or even the *majority*
> of situations.
> 
> If you consider all functions that can be defined on the real numbers
> and which have values that are real numbers, so your usual, normal,
> pleasant functions f(x) : R->R, then if you try to randomly choose a
> function, the probability can be calculated that you find one that's
> differentiable at even a signle point. This probability is 0,
> demonstrating how rare those functions actually are, and demonstrating
> how important it is to add certain warnings to any statement about
> mathematical objects.
> 
> > See?  It's really not that hard.
> 
> It actually is. It is hard and you did not understand it.
> 
> > You can prove that
> > calculus is correct by taking two points an equal small distance in x
> from
> > the point of interest, say x+ and x-, by solving (f(x+) - f(x-))/(x+ -
> x-).
> 
> ...again in some practical situations only. Not in all, not even in
> most. Only for continuous functions that are everywhere differentiable
> can you allow yourself such mental slack.
> 
> > This will give you a very close approximation of df/dx at x (in the
> middle).
> > We call this the "finite difference approximation method".
> 
> > Sometimes it almost seems like magic that this calculus stuff works, but
> it
> > always does!
> >
> > David G. Dixon
> > Professor
> > Department of Materials Engineering
> > University of British Columbia
> > 309-6350 Stores Road
> > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> > Canada
> 
> David, I am surprised that you undersign your email with the title of
> Professor, but display a lack of understanding of calculus that most
> children in my country have mastered by the time they're freshmen in
> high school. This is truly appalling that you give your posts some
> mark of quality with this title, yet spew total and utter
> disinformation. The things I pointed out are not 'a mathematician's
> mockings'. They're not even nit picking. Those are not concepts 'only
> mathematicians need to care about' - those are very basic concepts
> that literally *have* to be understood by every engineer who wants to
> be successful in what he does. Many of the mistakes were not in the
> details, but in the gross meaning of what you were saying.
> 
> I post this mostly because almost all of those concepts you have taken
> on are important parts of a base for further knowledge to be built
> upon. Those concepts are used even in teaching people who will not use
> them later on, just to create a pattern of thought that can be later
> related to. Like Newton's definition of a derivative, which you
> completely butchered and, defiling Newton's name, removed it from the
> name of the definition showing a complete disregard for one of the
> greatest thinkers in written history.
> 
> The act of not recognizing something as basic as the definition of the
> derivative, or multiple instances of mistaking the derivative for a
> differential all add up to my judgment that you are in no way fit to
> teach people about calculus. Please don't do so.
> 
> I certainly hope you do not teach where ever you are called Professor.
> If you do, please *at least* take the time to revise. This is your job
> and you are doing it wrong. As a Professor you need to have a PhD
> which stands for Doctor of Philosophy. It is certainly required for a
> Doctor of Philosophy to know the most important theorems conceived by
> some of the most important philosophers to exist to date, like
> Leibniz, Newton, or Cauchy.
> 
> It's never the wrong time to go back to books, and I know it might
> look funny for a Professor to sit down with an undergrad or even high
> school level book, but I think it's better to do that than to find
> yourself in a situation like this one where you start talking and
> don't even realize you might be wrong. Or judging by your response
> off-list, don't even admit the possibility.
> 
> When looking at your signature of 'Perfecta fingamus serviat natura',
> I wonder if it really means you are a servant in taking nature apart
> to see how it works, or if the 'fingere' in your slogan actually uses
> the other meaning, which would turn out to 'servant in feigning
> nature'. I can't say you had me tricked with your version of nature,
> though.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:58 AM, David G. Dixon <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca>
> wrote:
> > Dear Cheater,
> >
> >> David,
> >> I've found your post to be highly offensive to any mathematician
> >
> > Well, I'm an engineer, so I officially don't care!
> >
> >> and very disinformative. I am posting this off-list to give you a
> chance
> >> to correct this yourself. Please do so, something has to be said
> >> on-list by someone. If nothing happens I will post an errata.
> >
> > If your "errata" are as incoherent as your rebuttal, then heaven help us
> > all!
> >
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> D.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM, David G. Dixon
> <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> > Dan,
> >> >
> >> > A triangle pointing up to the left of a variable (say, x) is to be
> read
> >> > "Delta x" and it simply means "macroscopic change in x" or "x_2 minus
> >> x_1"
> >> > (as opposed to "dx" from calculus, which means "infinitesimal change
> in
> >> x"
> >> > and is the limit as Delta approaches zero).
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Unclear. Someone learning calculus will just get confused by this.
> >>
> >
> > Perhaps, but accurate nonetheless. ?I don't know how else to say it.
> ?Delta
> > is a triangle pointing up, and it means "difference". ?Nabla is an
> > upside-down Delta, and it means "differential (as a vector, i.e., in
> 3D).
> >
> >> > If the triangle is pointing
> >> > down, this is to be read "del x" or "nabla x" and is simply a stand-
> in
> >> for
> >> > the differential expression "dx/d?".
> >>
> >
> >> Wrong.
> >
> > How so? ?I tried to clarify below...
> >
> >> Well, I wonder if the water in your pipes flows against gravity with
> >> this definition.
> >
> > I think you are confusing the definition of nabla with the constitutive
> laws
> > which govern most physical processes, in which the flux of any
> conservable
> > quantity is proportional to the negative gradient of some intensive
> property
> > related to that quantity (e.g., Fourier's law of heat conduction, in
> which
> > heat flows in the direction of the negative temperature gradient, and
> which
> > is generally written "q = -k [nabla] T" or, in one direction, say x, "q
> = -k
> > dT/dx", where q is heat flux, k is thermal conductivity, T is
> temperature,
> > and x is distance along some direction)
> >
> >> >?Generally, if x is differentiable by
> >> > more than one independent variable (for example, say x is a 2D
> variable
> >> in
> >> > the y-z plane, so it may be differentiated separately with respect to
> y
> >> or z
> >> > (i.e., dx/dy and dx/dz), then the upside-down triangle (or nabla)
> >> signifies
> >> > all possible differentials at once.
> >
> >> Do you mean it signifies a sum of all partial derivatives? Big
> difference.
> >
> > No, I most emphatically do not mean that, and yes, it is a big
> difference.
> > It signifies exactly what I said it signifies: all the differentials at
> > once, as components of a 3D vector.
> >
> >> >?This is what we call "vector notation"
> >> > as it doesn't differentiate between the various dimensions of the
> >> problem.
> >> > There is a whole subfield of calculus called "vector calculus" which
> >> deals
> >> > with this. ?In fact, in my professional work, I tend to use vector
> >> calculus
> >> > quite often, as I am dealing with flow in 3D, and vector calculus is
> >> more
> >> > convenient for me in this regard (as I only have to do it once,
> rather
> >> than
> >> > 3 times).
> >> >
> >> > Your question is a good one, because it leads directly to the most
> >> > fundamental idea in differential calculus; namely, the "central limit
> >> > theorem". ?This says that a function evaluated at x + Delta-x minus
> that
> >> > function evaluated at x, all over Delta x, approaches the
> differential
> >> df/dx
> >> > as Delta-x approaches zero. ?Draw a random curve on an x-y plot,
> >
> >> ...which is as unprobable a function as anything else, since curves
> >> are a set of measure zero in the set of functions wherefore this
> >> example does not define the differential without explaining this quite
> >> important bit of information..
> >
> > You lost me there, I'm afraid...
> >
> >> > take any
> >> > two points on the curve, and draw a straight line through them. ?This
> is
> >> the
> >> > algebraic linear slope of those two points,
> >
> >> Is not.
> >
> > Perhaps my English was lacking here a little, but as Dan is American
> like me
> > (and therefore illiterate by definition), he'll probably understand what
> I
> > was trying to say just fine! ?(Do you, Dan? ;->) ?Of course it helps if
> the
> > curve is singly-valued, and not, say, an S shape, although the trick
> will
> > still work for the latter.
> >
> >> > or "Delta-y/Delta-x". ?Now
> >> > slowly bring one point closer to the other, continuing to draw
> straight
> >> > lines through the two points. ?When the two points essentially become
> >> one,
> >> > the last straight line you draw
> >
> >> Which would never happen, unless we're considering a function that is
> >> a straight segment curve..
> >
> > It happens all the time, D.! ?That's why Newton and Leibniz were so fond
> of
> > it! ?Give it a try sometime!
> >
> >> > is the tangent slope of the function f(x) at
> >> > point x, or df(x)/dx. ?This, in a nutshell, is differential calculus.
> >> ?Every
> >> > single-valued function (i.e., one which has only one value at a given
> x)
> >> has
> >> > a unique differential (or tangent slope) at every point (unless there
> is
> >> a
> >> > discontinuity, or step-change, in which case there are two -- one on
> >> either
> >> > side of the step).
> >>
> >> This is just awesomely wrong and misinformative
> >
> > Whatever. ?If you can explain the central limit theorem any better
> without
> > the use of diagrams, be my guest!
> >
> >> >?See? ?It's really not that hard. ?You can prove that
> >> > calculus is correct by taking two points an equal small distance in x
> >> from
> >> > the point of interest, say x+ and x-, by solving (f(x+) - f(x-))/(x+
> -
> >> x-).
> >> > This will give you a very close approximation of df/dx at x (in the
> >> middle).
> >> > We call this the "finite difference approximation method".
> >> >
> >> > Sometimes it almost seems like magic that this calculus stuff works,
> but
> >> it
> >> > always does!
> >> >
> >> > David G. Dixon
> >> > Professor
> >> > Department of Materials Engineering
> >> > University of British Columbia
> >> > 309-6350 Stores Road
> >> > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> >> > Canada
> >> >
> >> > Tel 1-604-822-3679
> >> > Fax 1-604-822-3619
> >> >
> >> > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> >> >
> >> > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential
> and
> >> > intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).
> ?It
> >> > must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.
> ?If
> >> you
> >> > are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for
> delivering
> >> it to
> >> > the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not
> disclose,
> >> > copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Dan Snazelle [mailto:subjectivity at hotmail.com]
> >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:39 PM
> >> >> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca; sdiy
> >> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ok
> >> >>
> >> >> what about if it has little triangles? (are these delta? what school
> of
> >> >> math is this? algebra?)
> >> >>
> >> >> also...i keep reading about transform functions...is that calculus?
> >> >>
> >> >> i am also seeing a few other weird symbols pop up.
> >> >> thanks so much
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> spending my saturday night reading "mastering technical mathematics"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --------------------------------------------
> >> >> check out various dan music at:
> >> >>
> >> >> ?http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> >> >>
> >> >> (updated monthly)
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> >> >>
> >> >> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> >> >>
> >> >> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> >> >>
> >> >> AUDIO ARK:
> >> >>
> >> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> >> >>
> >> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> >> >>
> >> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:47:50 -0800
> >> >> > From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca
> >> >> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> >> >> > To: subjectivity at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Dan,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If it's got "d something" over "d something" in it, its
> differential
> >> >> > calculus (the d's on top and the somethings on the bottom can also
> >> have
> >> >> > exponents). ?If it has a big S-shaped thingy to the left of
> >> everything
> >> >> > (often with little numbers or symbols above and below it), with a
> "d
> >> >> > something" at the far right, its integral calculus. ?If its got
> "e"
> >> or
> >> >> "exp"
> >> >> > or "ln" or "log", then its an exponential or logarithmic function.
> >> ?If
> >> >> it's
> >> >> > got "sin" or "cos" or "tan" or "cot" or "sec" or "csc", with or
> >> without
> >> >> an
> >> >> > "arc" in front or an "h" behind, then its trigonometry. ?If
> >> everything
> >> >> is a
> >> >> > function of "s" then it's a Laplace transform. ?Alternatively, if
> >> >> everything
> >> >> > is a function of "jw" (where the "w" is really an undercase
> omega),
> >> then
> >> >> > it's a Fourier transform, which is really a Laplace transform
> where s
> >> =
> >> >> jw.
> >> >> > If it's got lots of "j"s all over the place, then its complex
> math.
> >> >> > Otherwise, it's just algebra! ?(See how easy it all is?!? ?;->)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > David G. Dixon
> >> >> > Professor
> >> >> > Department of Materials Engineering
> >> >> > University of British Columbia
> >> >> > 309-6350 Stores Road
> >> >> > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> >> >> > Canada
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Tel 1-604-822-3679
> >> >> > Fax 1-604-822-3619
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The information in this email and in any attachments is
> confidential
> >> and
> >> >> > intended solely for the attention and use of the named
> addressee(s).
> >> ?It
> >> >> > must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's
> authority.
> >> ?If
> >> >> you
> >> >> > are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for
> >> delivering
> >> >> it to
> >> >> > the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not
> >> disclose,
> >> >> > copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> From: Dan Snazelle [mailto:subjectivity at hotmail.com]
> >> >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:49 AM
> >> >> >> To: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca; sdiy
> >> >> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> My advice to Dan and others would be not to set out to "learn
> >> math",
> >> >> but
> >> >> >>> only electronics. ?When something mathematical arises that you
> >> don't
> >> >> >>> understand, then learn the specific bit of math required to get
> >> over
> >> >> the
> >> >> >>> hump -- read a wiki, ask a friend, crack a textbook, whatever --
> >> but
> >> >> >> always
> >> >> >>> only in the service of electronics. ?This way, the math will
> slip
> >> in
> >> >> by
> >> >> >>> osmosis.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> one question i have about this good advice is how to TELL what i
> AM
> >> >> >> LOOKING AT. (so i can understand a specific bit)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> for example I just got the book on non linear electronics from
> >> analog
> >> >> >> devices. It seems full of ?great stuff BUT is full of equations.
> >> >> >> however how can i tell just from looking at some weird equation
> what
> >> i
> >> >> >> will need to learn to understand it
> >> >> >> ? it's not as if they say "this is from algebra 2 or this is from
> >> calc"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> so ?that right there makes the piecemeal approach hard at times.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> thanks
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Synth-diy mailing list
> >> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Mar  5 20:18:54 2009
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:18:54 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] beagleboard...
In-Reply-To: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE943@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
	<BDA16411-D5D8-4785-9F51-88E98D360E19@electricdruid.net>
	<6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D40CEE943@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>
Message-ID: <B66CA09E-5B38-451C-8476-2012126C486E@blueyonder.co.uk>

There was a thread about this a while back, around mid 08 IIRC.

Graham

On 5 Mar 2009, at 17:57, Barry Klein wrote:

> This looks like a (another) fun toy to play with...
> http://beagleboard.org/hardware
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu Mar  5 20:21:26 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:21:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
In-Reply-To: <200903051859.n25Ix0P5004411@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
	<BDA16411-D5D8-4785-9F51-88E98D360E19@electricdruid.net>
	<200903051859.n25Ix0P5004411@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1B46E1ED-3F8E-4887-A237-91F496BA25E9@electricdruid.net>


On 5 Mar 2009, at 17:50, John Mahoney wrote:

> At 12:22 PM 3/5/2009, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>> It was my understanding that the terms of use for youtube mean that
>> material posted there is regarded as in the public domain, so he can
>> do what he likes with it.
>> If you post it on youtube, it's fair game.
>
> I don't believe that my posting a copy of, say, a Bob Moog movie  
> would place that movie into the public domain.

No, definitely not. You can't give away rights that you don't have!

> How this affects content that is posted by the copyright holder is  
> another story, I guess.

I wasn't quite right about YouTube. For the record, Youtube's terms  
of service (TOS) say:
8.2 You retain all of your ownership rights in your User Submissions,  
but you are required to grant limited licence rights to YouTube and  
other Website users. These are described in paragraph 10 of these  
Terms (Rights you licence).

The relevant part of paragraph 10 is:

10.1 When you upload or post a User Submission to YouTube, you grant:

...to each user of the Website, a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty- 
free, licence to access your User Submissions through the Website,  
and to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of,  
display and perform such User Submissions to the extent permitted by  
the functionality of the Website and under these Terms.

So it's not in the public domain, and you *do* retain copyright, but  
any YouTube user is entitled by the TOS to "prepare derivative works"  
of any user submissions.

But anyway, who wants to be derivative? We're all going for  
originality, right?!

T.







From secoff at execpc.com  Thu Mar  5 20:34:38 2009
From: secoff at execpc.com (Sam Ecoff)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:34:38 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <49A75CDD.7070905@smiffytech.com>
References: <BAY144-W199066B16DE49C288B409DC8AA0@phx.gbl>
	<49A75CDD.7070905@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <0227086C-EB38-49B2-8DD2-05A9F9EFDCFF@execpc.com>


On Feb 26, 2009, at 9:24 PM, Matthew Smith wrote:

> Quoth Dan Snazelle at 2009-02-27 12:30...
>> i feel i have gotten about as far as i can in understanding many  
>> electronic books and topics in the last few years without knowing  
>> ANY math beyond basic pre-algebra. I never took anything past  
>> algebra one in high school and that was in 1992 and i dont remember  
>> any of it.
>
> Unfortunately to us this book, I require a much higher degree of  
> algebra than I am up to.  "Practical Algebra A Self-Teaching Guide"  
> by Selby and Slavin has been of no use to me whatsoever.  I consider  
> this title quite unsuitable for the mathematically-challenged.

Funny... I've been working through this exact book in the past few  
weeks, and I have to say that I find it to be marvelously helpful. I'd  
encourage you to read the reviews of the book on Amazon and see what  
you think. If you think it's worth half a chance, i'd say get it. It's  
not an expensive book at $15. (I think that's the price).

HTH

Sam E.




From jason at redfish.net  Thu Mar  5 20:38:45 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:38:45 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
In-Reply-To: <1B46E1ED-3F8E-4887-A237-91F496BA25E9@electricdruid.net>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
	<BDA16411-D5D8-4785-9F51-88E98D360E19@electricdruid.net>
	<200903051859.n25Ix0P5004411@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<1B46E1ED-3F8E-4887-A237-91F496BA25E9@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <a062007a0c5d5daa0afb6@[10.0.1.4]>

>But anyway, who wants to be derivative? We're all going for 
>originality, right?!

well, Kutiman's technically derivative, but he r0x0r anyway :-)



From blacet at blacet.com  Thu Mar  5 21:34:45 2009
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 12:34:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
In-Reply-To: <1B46E1ED-3F8E-4887-A237-91F496BA25E9@electricdruid.net>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
	<BDA16411-D5D8-4785-9F51-88E98D360E19@electricdruid.net>
	<200903051859.n25Ix0P5004411@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<1B46E1ED-3F8E-4887-A237-91F496BA25E9@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <301d215796b5ddc9189bb70c663962d5.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>

--I'm not a lawyer but the "use, reproduce, distribute, ...... perform"
part seems pretty wide ranging.

The only term missing is "sell" but maybe that doesn't matter.

"...to each user of the Website, a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-
free, licence to access your User Submissions through the Website,
and to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of,
display and perform such User Submissions to the extent permitted by
the functionality of the Website and under these Terms."

So it's not in the public domain, and you *do* retain copyright, but
any YouTube user is entitled by the TOS to "prepare derivative works"
of any user submissions.--


John Blacet



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Thu Mar  5 21:46:05 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:46:05 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <0227086C-EB38-49B2-8DD2-05A9F9EFDCFF@execpc.com>
Message-ID: <0KG10034YWCUF7@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Most introductory electronics books have chapters on the math specific to
the subject matter.  For example, I'm looking at "Basic Electronics" (6th
ed.) by Bernard Grob, and Chapter 25 is devoted to complex arithmetic and
algebra, phasors, and how to apply all this stuff to AC circuits, with
dozens of examples worked step-by-step.  There are also chapters on
Kirchhoff's laws and network analysis, both of which are excellent for
exercising ones algebra skills.  Short of transfer function analysis using
transforms (which, despite all the handwaving, is really just more algebra),
this is probably all you need really need the algebra for in electronics, so
why not just learn the algebra by doing the electronics?

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Sam Ecoff
> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:35 AM
> To: sdiy DIY
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> 
> 
> On Feb 26, 2009, at 9:24 PM, Matthew Smith wrote:
> 
> > Quoth Dan Snazelle at 2009-02-27 12:30...
> >> i feel i have gotten about as far as i can in understanding many
> >> electronic books and topics in the last few years without knowing
> >> ANY math beyond basic pre-algebra. I never took anything past
> >> algebra one in high school and that was in 1992 and i dont remember
> >> any of it.
> >
> > Unfortunately to us this book, I require a much higher degree of
> > algebra than I am up to.  "Practical Algebra A Self-Teaching Guide"
> > by Selby and Slavin has been of no use to me whatsoever.  I consider
> > this title quite unsuitable for the mathematically-challenged.
> 
> Funny... I've been working through this exact book in the past few
> weeks, and I have to say that I find it to be marvelously helpful. I'd
> encourage you to read the reviews of the book on Amazon and see what
> you think. If you think it's worth half a chance, i'd say get it. It's
> not an expensive book at $15. (I think that's the price).
> 
> HTH
> 
> Sam E.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From floppyscratcher at googlemail.com  Thu Mar  5 22:00:53 2009
From: floppyscratcher at googlemail.com (floppy)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:00:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903050246m5b9d46b3o2c6cf730d0ae8146@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a06200764c5d471514c4b@10.0.1.4>	<4AAF27D3-F1D6-488E-BF09-E70DECD1A032@dompselaar.org>	<20090305093634.80B5F2C0069B@bmail01.one.com>
	<cf1e1cb10903050246m5b9d46b3o2c6cf730d0ae8146@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B03D85.1060708@googlemail.com>

there will be a dedicated device for this soon : 
http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/index.asp?action=page&name=16
david from innerclock systems spent a lot of time in researching this field.





cheater cheater schrieb:
> I suggest doing things the other way around: sync the pc to the modular!
> Record the gates from your modular, they will show up in your host.
> You can warp the tempo to the gates. This will give you a nice fluid
> rhythm.
>
>   



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Fri Mar  6 00:49:54 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:49:54 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminum sheet for panels, cheap!
In-Reply-To: <2111_1236286024_1236286024_0KG10034YWCUF7@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <0KG200FTC4V7WF@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

I just thought I'd pass along a little bit of information regarding a source
for very cheap aluminum for DIY front panels.

As I'm just finishing a handful of modules, I was looking for 1/8" 5052
aluminum sheet at a decent price, preferably precut to the correct sizes.
After several dead ends, I was finally directed to a place called "Metal
Supermarkets" which has two stores in the BC Lower Mainland, and many more
all over North America.  For a 2U x 5U panel (3.5" x 8.75") the going price
is a whopping $2.10 (Canadian).  He also said that I could estimate the cost
of other pieces by assuming about $10 per square foot, and to forget about
the cost of cutting it.

If I'd known it was going to be that cheap, I wouldn't have bothered making
the panels out of cardboard first!
 
David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.



From mikebeauchamp at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 01:18:30 2009
From: mikebeauchamp at gmail.com (Mike Beauchamp)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 13:18:30 +1300
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminum sheet for panels, cheap!
In-Reply-To: <0KG200FTC4V7WF@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <2111_1236286024_1236286024_0KG10034YWCUF7@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<0KG200FTC4V7WF@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <6110e6230903051618r466d2f40v5fcfd84de068a40c@mail.gmail.com>

I've used Metal Supermarket back in Windsor Ontario before. I never
knew it existed until a friend told me about it. It was tucked away in
the industrial areas that people never actually go to. Anyways, their
prices were really good, and they cut everything to lengths I wanted
and let me snoop around the warehouse to see what they had in stock.
Cool place..

Mike

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, David G. Dixon
<dixon at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
> I just thought I'd pass along a little bit of information regarding a source
> for very cheap aluminum for DIY front panels.
>
> As I'm just finishing a handful of modules, I was looking for 1/8" 5052
> aluminum sheet at a decent price, preferably precut to the correct sizes.
> After several dead ends, I was finally directed to a place called "Metal
> Supermarkets" which has two stores in the BC Lower Mainland, and many more
> all over North America.  For a 2U x 5U panel (3.5" x 8.75") the going price
> is a whopping $2.10 (Canadian).  He also said that I could estimate the cost
> of other pieces by assuming about $10 per square foot, and to forget about
> the cost of cutting it.
>
> If I'd known it was going to be that cheap, I wouldn't have bothered making
> the panels out of cardboard first!
>
> David G. Dixon
> Professor
> Department of Materials Engineering
> University of British Columbia
> 309-6350 Stores Road
> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> Canada
>
> Tel 1-604-822-3679
> Fax 1-604-822-3619
>
> "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>
> The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
> intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
> must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
> are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
> copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
Mike Beauchamp
mobile: +64 21 0 AS I BIKE (2742453)
home: +64 4 801 8304
work: +64 4 915 4068
http://mikebeauchamp.com
http://therevox.com


From rw at firstpr.com.au  Fri Mar  6 02:06:37 2009
From: rw at firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:06:37 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminum sheet for panels, cheap!
In-Reply-To: <6110e6230903051618r466d2f40v5fcfd84de068a40c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2111_1236286024_1236286024_0KG10034YWCUF7@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>	<0KG200FTC4V7WF@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<6110e6230903051618r466d2f40v5fcfd84de068a40c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B0771D.2020300@firstpr.com.au>

Hi Mike,

You wrote, in part:

> Anyways, their prices were really good, and they cut everything to
> lengths I wanted and let me snoop around the warehouse to see what
> they had in stock. Cool place..

Indeed - good integration between the customer, the staff and the
materials at hand, without fencing things off.  This sort of
arrangement is very fruitful when developing ideas.  I just want to
look at and touch a bunch of materials, including especially things I
didn't know existed, to prompt some constructive thoughts.

Can anyone suggest a similar place for aluminium, metal or plastic in
general in Melbourne Australia?

There was a Capral aluminium place in Preston which was good like
this - I see they are now in Thomastown, not far away.

  - Robin



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Fri Mar  6 02:36:23 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:36:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminum sheet for panels, cheap!
In-Reply-To: <6110e6230903051618r466d2f40v5fcfd84de068a40c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2111_1236286024_1236286024_0KG10034YWCUF7@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>	<0KG200FTC4V7WF@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<6110e6230903051618r466d2f40v5fcfd84de068a40c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B07E17.6000509@makenoisemusic.com>

Agreed, Metal Supermarket is great. The cuts are pretty accurate too.

If I ever open a hard rock specialty record store, I'll be stealing the 
name though!

Tony


Mike Beauchamp wrote:
> I've used Metal Supermarket back in Windsor Ontario before. I never
> knew it existed until a friend told me about it. It was tucked away in
> the industrial areas that people never actually go to. Anyways, their
> prices were really good, and they cut everything to lengths I wanted
> and let me snoop around the warehouse to see what they had in stock.
> Cool place..
>
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, David G. Dixon
> <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
>   
>> I just thought I'd pass along a little bit of information regarding a source
>> for very cheap aluminum for DIY front panels.
>>
>> As I'm just finishing a handful of modules, I was looking for 1/8" 5052
>> aluminum sheet at a decent price, preferably precut to the correct sizes.
>> After several dead ends, I was finally directed to a place called "Metal
>> Supermarkets" which has two stores in the BC Lower Mainland, and many more
>> all over North America.  For a 2U x 5U panel (3.5" x 8.75") the going price
>> is a whopping $2.10 (Canadian).  He also said that I could estimate the cost
>> of other pieces by assuming about $10 per square foot, and to forget about
>> the cost of cutting it.
>>
>> If I'd known it was going to be that cheap, I wouldn't have bothered making
>> the panels out of cardboard first!
>>
>> David G. Dixon
>> Professor
>> Department of Materials Engineering
>> University of British Columbia
>> 309-6350 Stores Road
>> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
>> Canada
>>
>> Tel 1-604-822-3679
>> Fax 1-604-822-3619
>>
>> "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>>
>> The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
>> intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
>> must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
>> are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
>> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
>> copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Fri Mar  6 11:08:09 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:08:09 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
In-Reply-To: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
Message-ID: <49B0F609.6080300@mnet-online.de>

beside all talking about copyright. Start here http://thru-you.com - If 
I do music on my own, I would do something completely different, but - 
sorry guys for the completely personal opinion - this is the most 
entertaining stuff I have seen or heard since long time.



> http://thru-you.com/#/videos/4/


From mikebeauchamp at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 13:33:27 2009
From: mikebeauchamp at gmail.com (Mike Beauchamp)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 01:33:27 +1300
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
In-Reply-To: <740019.7919.qm@web55002.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>
	<740019.7919.qm@web55002.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6110e6230903060433o574407c2g7a186cd90e56dda0@mail.gmail.com>

Very cool video, and it was very cool to see your circular sequencer in it!

Mike

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:55 AM, thomas white <djthomaswhite at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> It was only a matter of time before someone would start taking advantage of all that freely accessible user created content. I think it is quite creative and the use of my videos fit the project. Fun stuff! One kind of has to realize that content post up on teh m-a-zing Internets will be public domain... atleast IMHO
>
> Thomas White ?Natural Rhythm
> www.naturalrhythmmusic.com
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Sam Ecoff <secoff at execpc.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Sam Ecoff <secoff at execpc.com>
>> Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
>> To: "sdiy DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 7:49 AM
>> Hey guys... don't know if you saw this yet.... very
>> interesting concept... this guy makes music by piecing
>> together various You Tube vids. Liability issues aside,
>> it's very very cool. Noticed one of Thomas White's
>> MFOS sequencer vids was assimilated. (Hopefully you're
>> honored rather than feeling ripped off?)
>>
>> http://thru-you.com/#/videos/4/
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Sam E.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
Mike Beauchamp
mobile: +64 21 0 AS I BIKE (2742453)
home: +64 4 801 8304
work: +64 4 915 4068
http://mikebeauchamp.com
http://therevox.com



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Fri Mar  6 14:02:22 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:02:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
In-Reply-To: <6110e6230903060433o574407c2g7a186cd90e56dda0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9D67E696-05EC-45F6-AF73-F84316BFB163@execpc.com>	<740019.7919.qm@web55002.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<6110e6230903060433o574407c2g7a186cd90e56dda0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B11EDE.8000307@makenoisemusic.com>

I enjoyed all of the videos, that guy is a wizard. And yes, the Thomas 
White Sequencer shot is very nice. Several other synth diy shot in 
there, check the credits!

Tony

Mike Beauchamp wrote:
> Very cool video, and it was very cool to see your circular sequencer in it!
>
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:55 AM, thomas white <djthomaswhite at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   
>> It was only a matter of time before someone would start taking advantage of all that freely accessible user created content. I think it is quite creative and the use of my videos fit the project. Fun stuff! One kind of has to realize that content post up on teh m-a-zing Internets will be public domain... atleast IMHO
>>
>> Thomas White  Natural Rhythm
>> www.naturalrhythmmusic.com
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Sam Ecoff <secoff at execpc.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> From: Sam Ecoff <secoff at execpc.com>
>>> Subject: [sdiy] Thomas White's MFOS sequencer in a thru-you vid.
>>> To: "sdiy DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>> Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 7:49 AM
>>> Hey guys... don't know if you saw this yet.... very
>>> interesting concept... this guy makes music by piecing
>>> together various You Tube vids. Liability issues aside,
>>> it's very very cool. Noticed one of Thomas White's
>>> MFOS sequencer vids was assimilated. (Hopefully you're
>>> honored rather than feeling ripped off?)
>>>
>>> http://thru-you.com/#/videos/4/
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Sam E.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>       
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  6 18:06:58 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 17:06:58 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
In-Reply-To: <0227086C-EB38-49B2-8DD2-05A9F9EFDCFF@execpc.com>
References: <BAY144-W199066B16DE49C288B409DC8AA0@phx.gbl>
	<49A75CDD.7070905@smiffytech.com>
	<0227086C-EB38-49B2-8DD2-05A9F9EFDCFF@execpc.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W19BA457F63D4446B81A626C8A50@phx.gbl>


hey i dont think I ever said this:

 "Practical Algebra A Self-Teaching Guide"  
> by Selby and Slavin has been of no use to me whatsoever.  I consider  
> this title quite unsuitable for the mathematically-challenged.

i think that was someone else....

i was saying i needed more algebra for TECHNICAL MATH DEMYSTIFIED

i will check out the above book

thanks


--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page





> From: secoff at execpc.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] SDIY MATH GOALS--need real help!
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:34:38 -0600
> 
> 
> On Feb 26, 2009, at 9:24 PM, Matthew Smith wrote:
> 
>> Quoth Dan Snazelle at 2009-02-27 12:30...
>>> i feel i have gotten about as far as i can in understanding many  
>>> electronic books and topics in the last few years without knowing  
>>> ANY math beyond basic pre-algebra. I never took anything past  
>>> algebra one in high school and that was in 1992 and i dont remember  
>>> any of it.
>>
>> Unfortunately to us this book, I require a much higher degree of  
>> algebra than I am up to.  "Practical Algebra A Self-Teaching Guide"  
>> by Selby and Slavin has been of no use to me whatsoever.  I consider  
>> this title quite unsuitable for the mathematically-challenged.
> 
> Funny... I've been working through this exact book in the past few  
> weeks, and I have to say that I find it to be marvelously helpful. I'd  
> encourage you to read the reviews of the book on Amazon and see what  
> you think. If you think it's worth half a chance, i'd say get it. It's  
> not an expensive book at $15. (I think that's the price).
> 
> HTH
> 
> Sam E.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Fri Mar  6 21:40:46 2009
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 20:40:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Body capacitance problem?
Message-ID: <12186E23-0A8F-11DE-AD4F-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>

Hi all.

Possibly a dumb newbie question, I don't know....
I'm working on an experimental circuit which uses a dual monostable 
(CD4538). The R/C combination is 1M and 100nF which gives a measured 
pulse of just under 100ms.
There is a flying lead about 2 1/2 inches long connecting a trigger 
source to the positive going input of the monostable. All unused inputs 
are terminated as per the datasheets.
I notice that touching this lead with a finger will cause the pulse to 
be emitted, when no trigger pulse is being sent to the input. Leaving 
your finger there produces no further pulses, but removing and touching 
it again will trigger it again, every time.

Is this body capacitance?

I hope to eventually have a very short trace connecting to the trigger 
input (rather than a long wire), but am slightly concerned that this 
might still be a problem.

Anyone come across this before?

Any advice gratefully received. :-)

cheers,
Dave



From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Fri Mar  6 23:23:51 2009
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 22:23:51 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Body capacitance problem?
In-Reply-To: <002a01c99ea8$0e906c10$0200a8c0@ownerf0d9273f5>
References: <12186E23-0A8F-11DE-AD4F-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<002a01c99ea8$0e906c10$0200a8c0@ownerf0d9273f5>
Message-ID: <7892E8DE-0A9D-11DE-A929-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>

Thanks Paul - it worked first time :-)

cheers,
Dave


On Mar 6, 2009, at 22:08, Paul Perry wrote:

> yes, I think so.
> Maybe a 1 meg to ground on the trig input would fix it. (or 1 meg to  
> +, depnding which way around it is)
>
> best, paul perry
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Kendall"  
> <davekendall at ntlworld.com>
> To: "synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 7:40 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] Body capacitance problem?
>
>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> Possibly a dumb newbie question, I don't know....
>> I'm working on an experimental circuit which uses a dual monostable
>> (CD4538). The R/C combination is 1M and 100nF which gives a measured
>> pulse of just under 100ms.
>> There is a flying lead about 2 1/2 inches long connecting a trigger
>> source to the positive going input of the monostable. All unused  
>> inputs
>> are terminated as per the datasheets.
>> I notice that touching this lead with a finger will cause the pulse to
>> be emitted, when no trigger pulse is being sent to the input. Leaving
>> your finger there produces no further pulses, but removing and  
>> touching
>> it again will trigger it again, every time.
>>
>> Is this body capacitance?
>>
>> I hope to eventually have a very short trace connecting to the trigger
>> input (rather than a long wire), but am slightly concerned that this
>> might still be a problem.
>>
>> Anyone come across this before?
>>
>> Any advice gratefully received. :-)
>>
>> cheers,
>> Dave
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date:  
> 03/05/09 19:32:00
>



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Fri Mar  6 23:41:39 2009
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:41:39 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Body capacitance problem?
In-Reply-To: <12186E23-0A8F-11DE-AD4F-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
References: <12186E23-0A8F-11DE-AD4F-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <49B1A6A3.4010905@sonic.net>

Dave Kendall wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
> Possibly a dumb newbie question, I don't know....
> I'm working on an experimental circuit which uses a dual monostable 
> (CD4538). The R/C combination is 1M and 100nF which gives a measured 
> pulse of just under 100ms.
> There is a flying lead about 2 1/2 inches long connecting a trigger 
> source to the positive going input of the monostable. All unused inputs 
> are terminated as per the datasheets.
> I notice that touching this lead with a finger will cause the pulse to 
> be emitted, when no trigger pulse is being sent to the input. Leaving 
> your finger there produces no further pulses, but removing and touching 
> it again will trigger it again, every time.
> 

The input is high impedance.  When you touch it, you must be supplying 
enough voltage to cause a trigger.  What happens if you ground yourself 
before touching the trigger input?  You could try adding a pull-down 
resistor on the input (perhaps a series resistor as well).

If you have a scope, it is an interesting experiment to touch the end of 
the scope probe with one hand (don't touch the ground), while moving 
your other hand around near various things that emit fields - 
transformers, florescent lights, power cords, etc.

-Dave



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Sat Mar  7 00:10:31 2009
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:10:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Barebonespcb.com quality issues?
Message-ID: <648232.98084.qm@web26207.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


Hi all, have anyone noticed any quality issues with PCBs from barebonespcb.com? It might just be me being hungover but it seems to me that they're kinda iffy... (miniature bridges in between traces etc.) and this is not the first time. Other boards i've gotten from Advanced Circuits "normal" service have been flawless.

Karl


      __________________________________________________________
G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling. 
S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325



From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sat Mar  7 00:57:12 2009
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:57:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Body capacitance problem?
In-Reply-To: <49B1A6A3.4010905@sonic.net>
References: <12186E23-0A8F-11DE-AD4F-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<49B1A6A3.4010905@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <82B91DBC-0AAA-11DE-A953-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>

Hi Dave.

On Mar 6, 2009, at 22:41, Dave Manley wrote:

> The input is high impedance.  When you touch it, you must be supplying 
> enough voltage to cause a trigger.  What happens if you ground 
> yourself before touching the trigger input?

Interestingly, the problem was lessened by touching ground, but didn't 
go away. A 1M pulldown resistor on the trig input did the trick solidly 
:-).
>
>
> If you have a scope, it is an interesting experiment to touch the end 
> of the scope probe with one hand (don't touch the ground), while 
> moving your other hand around near various things that emit fields - 
> transformers, florescent lights, power cords, etc.

Certainly is! the spotlight on the workbench made the scope trace go 
crazy.....
The scope also freaks out whenever I switch on the Kurzweil K2000 
that's quite near it, regardless of where the probe is. Connecting the 
probe's GND to 0V doesn't make it behave completely right either.
I guess the scope isn't shielded then...

cheers,
Dave



>
> -Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat Mar  7 01:06:21 2009
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 01:06:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Body capacitance problem?
In-Reply-To: <49B1A6A3.4010905@sonic.net>
References: <12186E23-0A8F-11DE-AD4F-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<49B1A6A3.4010905@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <49B1BA7D.6080405@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Dave Manley skrev:
> Dave Kendall wrote:
>> Hi all.
>>
>> Possibly a dumb newbie question, I don't know....
>> I'm working on an experimental circuit which uses a dual monostable 
>> (CD4538). The R/C combination is 1M and 100nF which gives a measured 
>> pulse of just under 100ms.
>> There is a flying lead about 2 1/2 inches long connecting a trigger 
>> source to the positive going input of the monostable. All unused 
>> inputs are terminated as per the datasheets.
>> I notice that touching this lead with a finger will cause the pulse to 
>> be emitted, when no trigger pulse is being sent to the input. Leaving 
>> your finger there produces no further pulses, but removing and 
>> touching it again will trigger it again, every time.
>>
> 
> The input is high impedance.  When you touch it, you must be supplying 
> enough voltage to cause a trigger.  What happens if you ground yourself 
> before touching the trigger input?  You could try adding a pull-down 
> resistor on the input (perhaps a series resistor as well).
> 
> If you have a scope, it is an interesting experiment to touch the end of 
> the scope probe with one hand (don't touch the ground), while moving 
> your other hand around near various things that emit fields - 
> transformers, florescent lights, power cords, etc.

You are a big antenna... we do not naturally transmitt a steady 50 Hz 
distorted sine...

Touching high-impedance stuff like that and you should expect it to go 
off. Lowering the impedance by shifting to a lower resistor would 
significantly reduce the impact if you need it to be tolerant.

You can learn a few lessons by poking around. :)

Just don't touch the high voltage stuff.

Cheers,
Magnus


From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sat Mar  7 01:19:37 2009
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 00:19:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Body capacitance problem?
In-Reply-To: <49B1BA7D.6080405@rubidium.dyndns.org>
References: <12186E23-0A8F-11DE-AD4F-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<49B1A6A3.4010905@sonic.net> <49B1BA7D.6080405@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <A4BE32B5-0AAD-11DE-8C32-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>


On Mar 7, 2009, at 00:06, Magnus Danielson wrote:
>
> Touching high-impedance stuff like that and you should expect it to go 
> off. Lowering the impedance by shifting to a lower resistor would 
> significantly reduce the impact if you need it to be tolerant.

That would be the resistor in the R/C timing network for setting pulse 
width, not the 1M pulldown resistor?
I did go as far as to double the cap to 200nF, and lower the resistor 
to 470K for the R/C values, but maybe that wasn't enough?

Come to think of it, it was originally a 100K along with a 10nF, and I 
don't think it showed the same behaviour then...
>
> You can learn a few lessons by poking around. :)

That's how this experimental circuit was born ;-)
>
> Just don't touch the high voltage stuff.

I hear you .....

cheers,
Dave
(monkey logic man today :-)



From mverbos at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  7 03:30:59 2009
From: mverbos at earthlink.net (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 21:30:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Barebonespcb.com quality issues?
In-Reply-To: <648232.98084.qm@web26207.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <648232.98084.qm@web26207.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C24DB8E6-0228-4F93-8934-38E6C65ACB9B@earthlink.net>

I've had nothing but good ones. I've done more than 100 too.


Mark



On Mar 6, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Karl Ekdahl wrote:

>
> Hi all, have anyone noticed any quality issues with PCBs from  
> barebonespcb.com? It might just be me being hungover but it seems to  
> me that they're kinda iffy... (miniature bridges in between traces  
> etc.) and this is not the first time. Other boards i've gotten from  
> Advanced Circuits "normal" service have been flawless.
>
> Karl
>
>
>      __________________________________________________________
> G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling.
> S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Sat Mar  7 04:56:29 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:56:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Barebonespcb.com quality issues?
In-Reply-To: <648232.98084.qm@web26207.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <648232.98084.qm@web26207.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49B1F06D.8080700@makenoisemusic.com>

I use Barebones PCB all the time. I find the quality to be excellent.

With no soldermask it is very easy to bridge pins and traces though...

Tony

Karl Ekdahl wrote:
> Hi all, have anyone noticed any quality issues with PCBs from barebonespcb.com? It might just be me being hungover but it seems to me that they're kinda iffy... (miniature bridges in between traces etc.) and this is not the first time. Other boards i've gotten from Advanced Circuits "normal" service have been flawless.
>
> Karl
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________
> G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling. 
> S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From scriptstyle at gmail.com  Sat Mar  7 12:43:26 2009
From: scriptstyle at gmail.com (scriptstyle at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 06:43:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Body capacitance problem?
In-Reply-To: <82B91DBC-0AAA-11DE-A953-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
References: <12186E23-0A8F-11DE-AD4F-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<49B1A6A3.4010905@sonic.net>
	<82B91DBC-0AAA-11DE-A953-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <F637A895-7CC9-4853-83A9-1F102B9F7E70@gmail.com>

Dave

Sent from my iPod
>>
>>
> The scope also freaks out whenever I switch on the Kurzweil K2000  
> that's quite near it, regardless of where the probe is. Connecting  
> the probe's GND to 0V doesn't make it behave completely right either.
> I guess the scope isn't shielded then...
>
My guess here is that you are using 2 3pin ac cords connected to the  
same outlet/powerstrip? Oddly enough my scope is right next to my  
k2000. The scope is connected to it's own outlet across the room  
though. How many of you guys use isolation transformers?

Coincidentally I'm also working on a touch capacitence module right  
now. So far  I am breadboarding the TKB ala the synapse article. Does  
anyone here have the schematics for the actual TKB that serge made? I  
heard they are floating around, some where.


Garret
>
>
>
>>
>> -Dave
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From tom at electricdruid.net  Sat Mar  7 14:11:35 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:11:35 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Idea for PT2399 chorus
Message-ID: <1DCDB619-C087-4DB9-BE20-176AA8428A77@electricdruid.net>

Hi all,

I was reading about Scott Swartz' PT80 delay pedal for guitars last  
night:
	http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php? 
option=com_content&task=view&id=125&Itemid=26

I was also finding out about the various ways of adding voltage  
control to the PT2399 delay chip on which it is based. The delay time  
is set by a resistance on pin 6 which sinks current from the pin and  
sets the clock VCO speed. There are three basic methods;

1) Current sink
	http://www.homebuilthardware.com/index.php/projects/pt239x-delay/
2) FET used as variable resistance.
3) Vactrol
	http://home.comcast.net/~sbernardi/elec/og2/og3_echo.html

The trouble with Scott Bernardi's vactrol solution is that it uses a  
current source to control the brightness of the vactrols LED, so in  
fact it finishes up being more complicated than the current sink on  
its own. Also the output of an LED isn't that linear when fed from a  
current source.

Then it occurred to me - why not use PWM to control the LED  
brightness? The vactrols LDR response is slow enough that it would  
provide PWM filtering, and PWM provides a much more linear output  
from the LED. Seeing as I already have a PIC chip which acts as an  
LFO and produces a PWM output, I thought I could easily knock  
together a quick chorus.

I'll let you know how I get on, but it seems like a promising idea.  
I'm also keen to try with a slightly larger chip. For instance, the  
16F767 has three separate PWM outputs, so you could program up a  
triple chorus, and either have independent LFOs for each delay, or  
phase-shifted delays like in many string synths. Since all the clever  
bit (the LFOs) is then done in software, the actual circuit would  
amount to one PIC, three vactrols and three delay chips with  
associated Rs and Cs.

T.




From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Sat Mar  7 15:01:44 2009
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 15:01:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Idea for PT2399 chorus
In-Reply-To: <1DCDB619-C087-4DB9-BE20-176AA8428A77@electricdruid.net>
References: <1DCDB619-C087-4DB9-BE20-176AA8428A77@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A66801E55CC@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

You can also make a circuit that changes the resistor on pin 6. 
Why not changing the resistor by a weighted network (like in R/2R DACs) that are switched by analog switches?
Maybe old DACs can be connected directly as some of these parts had the DAC resistor ladder accessable on pins.
This would be an option if you want digital control (via MIDI).

Ciao
Peter

________________________________________
Von: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] im Auftrag von Tom Wiltshire [tom at electricdruid.net]
Gesendet: Samstag, 07. M?rz 2009 14:11
An: sdiy DIY
Betreff: [sdiy] Idea for PT2399 chorus

Hi all,

I was reading about Scott Swartz' PT80 delay pedal for guitars last
night:
        http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?
option=com_content&task=view&id=125&Itemid=26

I was also finding out about the various ways of adding voltage
control to the PT2399 delay chip on which it is based. The delay time
is set by a resistance on pin 6 which sinks current from the pin and
sets the clock VCO speed. There are three basic methods;

1) Current sink
        http://www.homebuilthardware.com/index.php/projects/pt239x-delay/
2) FET used as variable resistance.
3) Vactrol
        http://home.comcast.net/~sbernardi/elec/og2/og3_echo.html

The trouble with Scott Bernardi's vactrol solution is that it uses a
current source to control the brightness of the vactrols LED, so in
fact it finishes up being more complicated than the current sink on
its own. Also the output of an LED isn't that linear when fed from a
current source.

Then it occurred to me - why not use PWM to control the LED
brightness? The vactrols LDR response is slow enough that it would
provide PWM filtering, and PWM provides a much more linear output
from the LED. Seeing as I already have a PIC chip which acts as an
LFO and produces a PWM output, I thought I could easily knock
together a quick chorus.

I'll let you know how I get on, but it seems like a promising idea.
I'm also keen to try with a slightly larger chip. For instance, the
16F767 has three separate PWM outputs, so you could program up a
triple chorus, and either have independent LFOs for each delay, or
phase-shifted delays like in many string synths. Since all the clever
bit (the LFOs) is then done in software, the actual circuit would
amount to one PIC, three vactrols and three delay chips with
associated Rs and Cs.

T.


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From jhaible at debitel.net  Sat Mar  7 15:22:21 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 15:22:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Triple Chorus ("Solina") PCB re-run
Message-ID: <AE3F5ECD947D4A659B66E905880DCB5F@jhsilent>

Hi,

I think about having a second batch of Triple Chorus PCBs manufactured.
(Emulating the famous "Solina" string sound.)

Project details are here:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/triple_chorus/triple_chorus.html

I already have a list of people who missed the first PCB run.
If you want to be added to this list, please let me know within the next 
week or so.
When there is enough demand, I'll send out order forms (only then, when you 
return that order form, it will be a binding pre-order.) Right now, I'm just 
asking for serios interest.

If interested, please make sure that you can get TDA1022 ICs (3 of them per 
board).
There has been a temporal shortage after I started my first PCB run, but I 
think there should be enough on the market again.

JH. 



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sat Mar  7 15:45:54 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:45:54 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Idea for PT2399 chorus
In-Reply-To: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A66801E55CC@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>
References: <1DCDB619-C087-4DB9-BE20-176AA8428A77@electricdruid.net>
	<66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A66801E55CC@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>
Message-ID: <88AE8BE4-A152-45CA-A61A-50A308594483@electricdruid.net>

Peter,

Yes, it would be possible to do it the way you suggest, and you're  
right that some resistor string DACs would do the job. Alternatively,  
a digital potentiometer (almost the same thing) would do it.

The advantage for me of the vactrol solution is that the clock  
frequency will slew from one to another, rather than abruptly  
jumping. This should give a more "analog" effect. I'm worried about  
digital stepping creeping in otherwise.

The PIC LFO includes a heavy filter to ensure that the output is  
truly analogue and doesn't show any digital stepping. The vactrol has  
the same effect here. Without it, I think you'd hear the 10-bit  
resolution of the PICs output.

Regards,
Tom


On 7 Mar 2009, at 14:01, Ullrich Peter wrote:

> You can also make a circuit that changes the resistor on pin 6.
> Why not changing the resistor by a weighted network (like in R/2R  
> DACs) that are switched by analog switches?
> Maybe old DACs can be connected directly as some of these parts had  
> the DAC resistor ladder accessable on pins.
> This would be an option if you want digital control (via MIDI).
>
> Ciao
> Peter
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [synth-diy- 
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] im Auftrag von Tom Wiltshire  
> [tom at electricdruid.net]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 07. M?rz 2009 14:11
> An: sdiy DIY
> Betreff: [sdiy] Idea for PT2399 chorus
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading about Scott Swartz' PT80 delay pedal for guitars last
> night:
>         http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?
> option=com_content&task=view&id=125&Itemid=26
>
> I was also finding out about the various ways of adding voltage
> control to the PT2399 delay chip on which it is based. The delay time
> is set by a resistance on pin 6 which sinks current from the pin and
> sets the clock VCO speed. There are three basic methods;
>
> 1) Current sink
>         http://www.homebuilthardware.com/index.php/projects/pt239x- 
> delay/
> 2) FET used as variable resistance.
> 3) Vactrol
>         http://home.comcast.net/~sbernardi/elec/og2/og3_echo.html
>
> The trouble with Scott Bernardi's vactrol solution is that it uses a
> current source to control the brightness of the vactrols LED, so in
> fact it finishes up being more complicated than the current sink on
> its own. Also the output of an LED isn't that linear when fed from a
> current source.
>
> Then it occurred to me - why not use PWM to control the LED
> brightness? The vactrols LDR response is slow enough that it would
> provide PWM filtering, and PWM provides a much more linear output
> from the LED. Seeing as I already have a PIC chip which acts as an
> LFO and produces a PWM output, I thought I could easily knock
> together a quick chorus.
>
> I'll let you know how I get on, but it seems like a promising idea.
> I'm also keen to try with a slightly larger chip. For instance, the
> 16F767 has three separate PWM outputs, so you could program up a
> triple chorus, and either have independent LFOs for each delay, or
> phase-shifted delays like in many string synths. Since all the clever
> bit (the LFOs) is then done in software, the actual circuit would
> amount to one PIC, three vactrols and three delay chips with
> associated Rs and Cs.
>
> T.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy





From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Sat Mar  7 16:15:53 2009
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 16:15:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Idea for PT2399 chorus
In-Reply-To: <88AE8BE4-A152-45CA-A61A-50A308594483@electricdruid.net>
References: <1DCDB619-C087-4DB9-BE20-176AA8428A77@electricdruid.net>
	<66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A66801E55CC@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>,
	<88AE8BE4-A152-45CA-A61A-50A308594483@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A66801E55CE@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

Hi Tom!

OK, this makes sense... Smoothing the DAC is not possible the easy way.
The cleanest solution would be taking a higher resolution DAC and interpolating 
between the steps - but thats too much effort.

Ciao
Peter

________________________________________
Von: Tom Wiltshire [tom at electricdruid.net]
Gesendet: Samstag, 07. M?rz 2009 15:45
An: Ullrich Peter
Cc: sdiy DIY
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Idea for PT2399 chorus

Peter,

Yes, it would be possible to do it the way you suggest, and you're
right that some resistor string DACs would do the job. Alternatively,
a digital potentiometer (almost the same thing) would do it.

The advantage for me of the vactrol solution is that the clock
frequency will slew from one to another, rather than abruptly
jumping. This should give a more "analog" effect. I'm worried about
digital stepping creeping in otherwise.

The PIC LFO includes a heavy filter to ensure that the output is
truly analogue and doesn't show any digital stepping. The vactrol has
the same effect here. Without it, I think you'd hear the 10-bit
resolution of the PICs output.

Regards,
Tom


On 7 Mar 2009, at 14:01, Ullrich Peter wrote:

> You can also make a circuit that changes the resistor on pin 6.
> Why not changing the resistor by a weighted network (like in R/2R
> DACs) that are switched by analog switches?
> Maybe old DACs can be connected directly as some of these parts had
> the DAC resistor ladder accessable on pins.
> This would be an option if you want digital control (via MIDI).
>
> Ciao
> Peter
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] im Auftrag von Tom Wiltshire
> [tom at electricdruid.net]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 07. M?rz 2009 14:11
> An: sdiy DIY
> Betreff: [sdiy] Idea for PT2399 chorus
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading about Scott Swartz' PT80 delay pedal for guitars last
> night:
>         http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?
> option=com_content&task=view&id=125&Itemid=26
>
> I was also finding out about the various ways of adding voltage
> control to the PT2399 delay chip on which it is based. The delay time
> is set by a resistance on pin 6 which sinks current from the pin and
> sets the clock VCO speed. There are three basic methods;
>
> 1) Current sink
>         http://www.homebuilthardware.com/index.php/projects/pt239x-
> delay/
> 2) FET used as variable resistance.
> 3) Vactrol
>         http://home.comcast.net/~sbernardi/elec/og2/og3_echo.html
>
> The trouble with Scott Bernardi's vactrol solution is that it uses a
> current source to control the brightness of the vactrols LED, so in
> fact it finishes up being more complicated than the current sink on
> its own. Also the output of an LED isn't that linear when fed from a
> current source.
>
> Then it occurred to me - why not use PWM to control the LED
> brightness? The vactrols LDR response is slow enough that it would
> provide PWM filtering, and PWM provides a much more linear output
> from the LED. Seeing as I already have a PIC chip which acts as an
> LFO and produces a PWM output, I thought I could easily knock
> together a quick chorus.
>
> I'll let you know how I get on, but it seems like a promising idea.
> I'm also keen to try with a slightly larger chip. For instance, the
> 16F767 has three separate PWM outputs, so you could program up a
> triple chorus, and either have independent LFOs for each delay, or
> phase-shifted delays like in many string synths. Since all the clever
> bit (the LFOs) is then done in software, the actual circuit would
> amount to one PIC, three vactrols and three delay chips with
> associated Rs and Cs.
>
> T.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi  Sat Mar  7 16:30:58 2009
From: ajhuovil at cc.hut.fi (Antti Huovilainen)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 17:30:58 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [sdiy] Idea for PT2399 chorus
In-Reply-To: <88AE8BE4-A152-45CA-A61A-50A308594483@electricdruid.net>
References: <1DCDB619-C087-4DB9-BE20-176AA8428A77@electricdruid.net>
	<66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A66801E55CC@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>
	<88AE8BE4-A152-45CA-A61A-50A308594483@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.64.0903071729050.66212@kosh.hut.fi>

On Sat, 7 Mar 2009, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> The advantage for me of the vactrol solution is that the clock frequency 
> will slew from one to another, rather than abruptly jumping. This should 
> give a more "analog" effect. I'm worried about digital stepping creeping 
> in otherwise.

As it happens, I've done a bit of research into this too.
See http://dafx05.ssr.upm.es/Proc_DAFx05/P_155.pdf

If your resolution is high enough, the inherent smoothing in clocked 
delayline should remove any audible stepping.

Antti

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow"
   -- Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  7 21:39:37 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:39:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] can i make a filter cutoff pedal for my Prophet 600?
Message-ID: <BAY144-W4069C7FFA58763634847C9C8A20@phx.gbl>



I have heard from a few people that you can get a much smoother (non-stepped) cutoff sweep out of the prophet 600 if you use a pedal to control the value.

However i am not sure what standards the cutoff frequency jack is looking for or  what sort of pedal i would need. could i just use a voltage divider pot setup?

has anyone here done this?

it would be cool to be able to input CV signals from something like the wogglebug as well.
but i dont want to mess up my prophet.

thanks for any help 


--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page






From synth at casperelectronics.com  Sun Mar  8 01:25:47 2009
From: synth at casperelectronics.com (peter edwards)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:25:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] basic stamp in music
Message-ID: <5201EE71-0CE4-4A37-AA40-BB843A3CE7FC@casperelectronics.com>

I just got a few BS2 (basic stamp 2) development kits and have been  
having fun figuring out some of the basics.
I have no interest in robotics (which it seems most of the common  
projects are geared towards) and lots of interest in musical  
application.... sequencing, voltage control interfacing.
I'm eager to look into speech synth control and complex sampler IC  
interfacing but I figure there's a lot of cool projects out there.
Do any of you have some suggestions for musically related projects  
using the BS2??
Thanks!
-pete


From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun Mar  8 01:58:43 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 00:58:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] can i make a filter cutoff pedal for my Prophet 600?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W4069C7FFA58763634847C9C8A20@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W4069C7FFA58763634847C9C8A20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <80B4A83E-F84A-401A-A3F3-A8AEC181A1D2@electricdruid.net>

Dan,

> I have heard from a few people that you can get a much smoother  
> (non-stepped) cutoff sweep out of the prophet 600 if you use a  
> pedal to control the value.

Looking at schematics, you definitely do get a smooth analogue sweep.  
The filter CV input goes to half a CEM3360 VCA and then directly to  
the voices' filter cutoff CV inputs (on each voice's CEM3372 filter/ 
VCA chip).

> However i am not sure what standards the cutoff frequency jack is  
> looking for or  what sort of pedal i would need. could i just use a  
> voltage divider pot setup?

Yes, a simple voltage divider would do it. The user manual says the  
Filter CV input accepts a 0-10V CV input.  You could use a 9V battery  
across your pot and bingo!

> it would be cool to be able to input CV signals from something like  
> the wogglebug as well.
> but i dont want to mess up my prophet.

As long as the wogglebug doesn't bang out a lot more than 10V, it  
should be fine.

Regards,
Tom




From billbigrig at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  8 02:15:50 2009
From: billbigrig at yahoo.com (bill bigrig)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 17:15:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] vintage effects devices salvaged from home organs
Message-ID: <739497.76754.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Howdy,

 I am wondering if there is any interest out there for spring reverbs, chorus/phlanger circuits taken from old home organs and repackaged into plug and play effects devices. Also, MIDI controllable cheesy drum machines that not only contain the original "beats" but can be played manually or with a sequencer to obtain "vintage" drum tracks. Any opinions????
Rig


      


From jvastine at charter.net  Sun Mar  8 02:34:24 2009
From: jvastine at charter.net (jvastine)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:34:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] vintage effects devices salvaged from home organs
In-Reply-To: <739497.76754.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090307203424.37HN2.518548.root@mp05>

FWIW This does sound like a great project idea to me!

---- bill bigrig <billbigrig at yahoo.com> wrote: 

Howdy,

 I am wondering if there is any interest out there for spring reverbs, chorus/phlanger circuits taken from old home organs and repackaged into plug and play effects devices. Also, MIDI controllable cheesy drum machines that not only contain the original "beats" but can be played manually or with a sequencer to obtain "vintage" drum tracks. Any opinions????
Rig


      
_______________________________________________
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From billbigrig at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  8 04:55:55 2009
From: billbigrig at yahoo.com (bill bigrig)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 19:55:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] home organ effects devices etc.
Message-ID: <555758.82810.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Howdy,

Thanx! I read an ad from a guy looking for lowery organs. He said he was using them to salvage the leslie speakers for people who cannot afford the Real deal, and also to make bass amps. i got to looking at the service manual for my Lowery, which I got for free, intending to use the Leslie. After we exchanged a couple e-mails, i looked again at the service manual and realized that there would be a LOT of stuff he would be throwing away. Keyboards for one. then the reverb/chorus/drum machine/bass pedal thing hit me. I could take this guy's garbage and turn it into things that many musicians would really like to have. Now we just have to meet up and talk this over. The accessory devices could be built whole, in kit form, or just the basic parts with instructions to make a complete unit. Many possible ideas. I cannot stand the idea of functional musical devices,(especially keyboard assemblies), being thrown in the garbage. Most of these old organs,
although using now primitive technology, made very high quality sounds. Why not modify them for stand alone operation and make them available. Mainly it was lust. I told him initially that I was looking for top octave generator chips. It just grew from there.
Rig




      


From billbigrig at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  8 05:32:58 2009
From: billbigrig at yahoo.com (bill bigrig)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:32:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sdiy] 16x4 sequencer with add-on modules thought
Message-ID: <758691.21613.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Howdy,

 i have an idea for a 16x3, or 16x4 sequencer that would be a 'master unit' with add-on modules to increase the steps in increments of 16. Or just the main module with identical add-ons that can be added for expansion of steps, or separate sequencers running in tandem. My question is, where or who can I take a circuit drawing and have a PCB designed for it? It can be sold as a complete unit or in kit form. The main thing is, it can be cascaded to allow multiplesof 16,(+/- sreps in the final stage) to acheive long sequences if the musician so desires. Any PCB design resouces out there?
Rig


      


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Sun Mar  8 05:39:45 2009
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:39:45 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] vintage effects devices salvaged from home organs
In-Reply-To: <739497.76754.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <739497.76754.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090308043945.GF25810@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 05:15:50PM -0800, bill bigrig wrote:
>  I am wondering if there is any interest out there for spring reverbs, chorus/phlanger circuits taken from old home organs and repackaged into plug and play effects devices. Also, MIDI controllable cheesy drum machines that not only contain the original "beats" but can be played manually or with a sequencer to obtain "vintage" drum tracks. Any opinions????
> 

There's interest in that, definitely.  Organs, esp partially broken or
otherwise abused ones are very plentiful and I nab them when I have space.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Sun Mar  8 06:03:14 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:03:14 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] vintage effects devices salvaged from home organs
In-Reply-To: <20090308043945.GF25810@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <0KG600DPP8PFJ0@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

> There's interest in that, definitely.  Organs, esp partially broken or
> otherwise abused ones are very plentiful and I nab them when I have space.

How hard is it, generally, to modify the keyboard of an electronic organ
into a CV keyboard for modular synth use?



From horton.andrew at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 06:04:20 2009
From: horton.andrew at gmail.com (Horton)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 23:04:20 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] "voltage control" on the 556
Message-ID: <a9ce79240903072104u284848fcq590562d99cdd4652@mail.gmail.com>

I'm building an atari punk console -
http://compiler.kaustic.net/machines/apc.html - and while I'm at it, I
was wondering what other sorts of modifications I can add to it. Since
I'm planning on making a bunch of little CMOS noisemakers and effects,
I was wondering if there's any way to take advantage of the "control
voltage" pins on the 556. My only knowledge of CV is typical 0-5V
stuff on modular synths but I was wondering if those two pins are in
any way similar to voltage control as I know it. My only real goal is
extra freakout/chaos on this circuit, so I'm certainly not looking for
something like 1v/octave control or anything like that, but I was
imagining being able to patch in the output of something else that I
build later.

Am I totally barking up the wrong tree with this one, or what?

AH


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Sun Mar  8 06:19:37 2009
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 21:19:37 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] vintage effects devices salvaged from home organs
In-Reply-To: <0KG600DPP8PFJ0@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <20090308043945.GF25810@moo.sysabend.org>
	<0KG600DPP8PFJ0@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <20090308051937.GG25810@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 09:03:14PM -0800, David G. Dixon wrote:
> > There's interest in that, definitely.  Organs, esp partially broken or
> > otherwise abused ones are very plentiful and I nab them when I have space.
> 
> How hard is it, generally, to modify the keyboard of an electronic organ
> into a CV keyboard for modular synth use?

Pretty easy in most cases depending on how much time you spend on it.

You can ladder a bunch of resistors up the back and get a single CV out if
its a two-contact keyboard ( 1 contact for gate, other for CV ).

If its single contact you can do one of many keyboard scanner designs on the
net.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar  8 06:45:04 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 22:45:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "voltage control" on the 556
Message-ID: <200903080645.n286j44G013963@linux7.lan>

Horton <horton.andrew at gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm building an atari punk console -
>http://compiler.kaustic.net/machines/apc.html - and while I'm at it, I
>was wondering what other sorts of modifications I can add to it. Since
>I'm planning on making a bunch of little CMOS noisemakers and effects,
>I was wondering if there's any way to take advantage of the "control
>voltage" pins on the 556. My only knowledge of CV is typical 0-5V
>stuff on modular synths but I was wondering if those two pins are in
>any way similar to voltage control as I know it. My only real goal is
>extra freakout/chaos on this circuit, so I'm certainly not looking for
>something like 1v/octave control or anything like that, but I was
>imagining being able to patch in the output of something else that I
>build later.
>
>Am I totally barking up the wrong tree with this one, or what?
>

hmm...  try it?



-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From matt at smiffytech.com  Sun Mar  8 06:45:19 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:15:19 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Single vs Dual Op Amp Supplies
Message-ID: <49B35B6F.5080608@smiffytech.com>

Hi Folks

Could someone explain to me the pros and cons of using op amps that work 
with split or single rail supplies?

Consider the following:

I have an oscillator that is essentially a microcontroller outputting a 
square wave between 0-ish and 5-ish Volts.  I want the option of a 
triangle wave, so this signal is fed into a) a buffer and b) an 
integrator, both op amps in a common package.

In my spares box, I have a rail of uA324 quad op amps (same as LM324) 
which are designed to work from a single supply.

As my signal is not going either side of a zero voltage - it is always 
positive - is there any reason not to use such a device?

There will be at least two such oscillators, all receiving the same note 
data but detunable.  The square/triangle waves will then be mixed. 
(Note: I'm not having switchable square/triangle, both of these signals 
will be available to the mixer.)

Can this be done with a single 5V supply?  If not, how do I get half of 
my 0-5V signal "below the line" to go into a split supply op amp?

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From danjel at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 08:29:29 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 23:29:29 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Problem with Vermona DRM I mkii voice
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903072329q866ff16l1a0db7c211ea1b45@mail.gmail.com>

I just bought a Vermona DRM I mkII and discovered that one of the 8
drum voices does not seem to be working correctly. The 4th voice
called "multi" which is supposed to emulate a cowbell is super
quiet/faint.

You can hear the click part of the sound (not sure if each drum sound
has a click synthesized component mixed in) but the pitched parts are
very very low in volume. Also the volume pot for that channel is a
little scratchy.

I know it is hard for anyone to know what is wrong without having a
look at the circuit but I was wondering if anyone had an educated
guess??

The whole machine is in pristine condition and is well built (I took a
look inside). What would be a typical failure that would cause that
part to simply be too quiet? Bad coupling cap? Failed opamp? Failed
VCA (mostly CA8030's inside)

any tips are very appreciated!!


cheers,
Danjel


From dbarton at pacbell.net  Sun Mar  8 08:37:29 2009
From: dbarton at pacbell.net (db)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 23:37:29 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] drive LEDs?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090307233358.08315008@pop.att.yahoo.com>


I have an LED on my mixer.
I want to attach 5-10 leds to this same connector so I can see from a few 
places.

I'd imagine I need some kind of external circuit to do that.
Is there something or some ideas anyone can point me towards?
Can this LED voltage easily be a trigger to switch?

dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]





From matt at smiffytech.com  Sun Mar  8 08:56:01 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:26:01 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Single vs Dual Op Amp Supplies
In-Reply-To: <0KG6008MTFFEBL@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KG6008MTFFEBL@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49B37A11.8050202@smiffytech.com>

Quoth David G. Dixon at 2009-03-08 17:58...

> How are you going to ensure a reasonably constant triangle amplitude without
> some sort of frequency to voltage converter?

I have no idea, wasn't aware that this was an issue.  I'm trying to work
from first principles from the op amp data I have here.  Shows
integrator being used to get triangle from square, no mention of amplitude.

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech



From dbarton at pacbell.net  Sun Mar  8 10:27:09 2009
From: dbarton at pacbell.net (db)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 01:27:09 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] drive LEDs?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090308012623.08312e88@pop.att.yahoo.com>



Is there a forum somewhere you guy can recommend for general electronic 
circuit design questions?

dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]






From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun Mar  8 10:32:26 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 09:32:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] "voltage control" on the 556
In-Reply-To: <a9ce79240903072104u284848fcq590562d99cdd4652@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9ce79240903072104u284848fcq590562d99cdd4652@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <05D4B813-AA1D-4FE1-9FA8-74C544C97307@electricdruid.net>


On 8 Mar 2009, at 05:04, Horton wrote:
>
> I was wondering if there's any way to take advantage of the "control
> voltage" pins on the 556...
> Am I totally barking up the wrong tree with this one, or what?

No. 555 and 556 timer chips are one of the things that got me into  
this stuff in the first place. I had a book called "Adventures in  
microelectronics" by Tom Duncan which had various circuits that made  
sounds, including one with a 556. The first timer was set up to make  
a basic pitch, and the second timer was acting as an LFO sent to the  
CV input of the first. By switching from the "triangle" (ish) output  
of the timer to the squarewave, you could make two different siren  
noises - either "Bee Bah Bee Bah Bee Bah" or  
"Weeeewwoooowweeeewooooweee" if you get the picture.

After I combined this circuit with one of the later ones (a binary  
counter using the 4512 chip) to produce octaved outputs, I was hooked  
on sound synthesis and wanted to build an analogue synth. That was 20  
years ago, and it's taken me till now to get round to it.

So my advice is just try it; 555 chips are cheap so don't be afraid  
to experiment.

T.



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun Mar  8 10:40:06 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 09:40:06 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single vs Dual Op Amp Supplies
In-Reply-To: <49B35B6F.5080608@smiffytech.com>
References: <49B35B6F.5080608@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <50041DE8-ED30-4468-8955-551CDD4DB812@electricdruid.net>


On 8 Mar 2009, at 05:45, Matthew Smith wrote:
>
> As my signal is not going either side of a zero voltage - it is  
> always positive - is there any reason not to use such a device?

The voltage offset. The best reason for using the dual-rail op-amps  
is that you can get the signal moving either side of 0V and not have  
any DC shift.

> Can this be done with a single 5V supply?  If not, how do I get  
> half of my 0-5V signal "below the line" to go into a split supply  
> op amp?

You need to add -2.5V DC to cancel the 2.5VDC shift that your  
squarewave has. A simple inverting mixer will do, but since the mixer  
inverts, you need to connect it to +2.5V instead.

David is right too; the integrator will produce an output amplitude  
that halves for each octave increase in frequency. This has to be  
compensated somehow. There's loads of "DCO" stuff on the web and in  
the SDIY archive that offers one way, or otherwise you could use some  
kind of variable gain circuit after the integrator.

Regards,
Tom





From matt at smiffytech.com  Sun Mar  8 10:40:21 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:10:21 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Single vs Dual Op Amp Supplies
In-Reply-To: <0KG6008MTFFEBL@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KG6008MTFFEBL@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49B39285.3010909@smiffytech.com>

Quoth David G. Dixon at 2009-03-08 17:58...
> How are you going to ensure a reasonably constant triangle amplitude without
> some sort of frequency to voltage converter?

Now that's had time to soak in, I assume that you mean that the 
amplitude of the triangle coming out of the integrator is dependent on 
the frequency of the square going in.

Yes, I can see ways of working round this (variable gain buffer 
controlled by DAC; turn note table array in uC into a struct, provide 
gain settings as well, send by SPI to DAC.)

But I'm now going to try to forget this.

What I'm doing here is trying to start from scratch with as little 
copying of existing work as possible - because I'm trying to learn.

When I hit little hiccoughs like volume changing with pitch, the 
investigation and resolution is (hopefully) when I start to get to grips 
with this and possibly even to understand some of the maths.

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From matt at smiffytech.com  Sun Mar  8 10:57:03 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:27:03 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Single vs Dual Op Amp Supplies
In-Reply-To: <50041DE8-ED30-4468-8955-551CDD4DB812@electricdruid.net>
References: <49B35B6F.5080608@smiffytech.com>
	<50041DE8-ED30-4468-8955-551CDD4DB812@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49B3966F.3040300@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Tom Wiltshire at 2009-03-08 20:10...
> The voltage offset. The best reason for using the dual-rail op-amps  
> is that you can get the signal moving either side of 0V and not have  
> any DC shift.

Understood.  Ah - so we're getting rid of DC so it's a pure AC signal, 
is that right?

> You need to add -2.5V DC to cancel the 2.5VDC shift that your  
> squarewave has. A simple inverting mixer will do, but since the mixer  
> inverts, you need to connect it to +2.5V instead.
Think I'm with you.  Will give this thought when not so tired and head 
not full of cold.

> David is right too; the integrator will produce an output amplitude  
> that halves for each octave increase in frequency. This has to be  
> compensated somehow. There's loads of "DCO" stuff on the web and in  
> the SDIY archive that offers one way, or otherwise you could use some  
> kind of variable gain circuit after the integrator.
The latter approach came to mind when Mr Brain finally woke up and I 
realised what David was talking about.  I'll try to work out possible 
solutions and THEN go Google on it.  Trying to use as much of my own 
thinking as possible, just getting advice on general principles.  This 
is my favourite learning method, or at least my most successful.

Thanks for that.  (Thanks David too - forgot to say in previous mails; 
brain right out to lunch.)

Cheers

M


-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar  8 15:29:16 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:29:16 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl>


Since pitch CV is usually from 0 volts up (no negative being needed) i was wondering if i could us an lm3900 or a cmos buffer powered off of 12v  to distribute CV voltages to a few vcos.  

rays cv distributor needs + and - voltages which i would like to get around if possible.

thanks










--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page






From igg.debus at t-online.de  Sun Mar  8 15:56:17 2009
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:56:17 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] vintage effects devices salvaged from home organs
In-Reply-To: <739497.76754.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <739497.76754.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <537DE400-DED4-46CB-B9A4-75B8AABD5949@t-online.de>


Am 08.03.2009 um 02:15 schrieb bill bigrig:

> chorus/phlanger circuits taken from old home organs and repackaged  
> into plug and play effects devices.

On last year's DIY meeting in Germany someone brought a triple chorus  
from a home organ, built into an external box. He added a nice  
lightshow, showing the status of the three LFOs with 3-colour LEDs.  
See a short movie here:
http://fa.utfs.org/diy/meeting_2008/movie_web/RMOV0077.AVI

Ingo


From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Mar  8 16:22:33 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:22:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (no subject)
References: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BA76C8F0B8EE4660A2FC4B2E526FCADB@jhsilent>

Good question.
How precise will the "0V" from the LM3900 be, when the "0V" of the summing 
node in the receiving end is slightly positive due to offset voltage? Then 
the 3900's output must sink (not source), if ever so slightly.
It probably will work, but then again it might not. I couldn't tell without 
trying!

JH.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Snazelle" <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:29 PM
Subject: [sdiy] (no subject)



Since pitch CV is usually from 0 volts up (no negative being needed) i was 
wondering if i could us an lm3900 or a cmos buffer powered off of 12v  to 
distribute CV voltages to a few vcos.

rays cv distributor needs + and - voltages which i would like to get around 
if possible.

thanks










--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page




_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Sun Mar  8 16:37:04 2009
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 08:37:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] drive LEDs?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090307233358.08315008@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090307233358.08315008@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49B3E620.4010102@gte.net>

Hi Dennis!

Here, maybe this page from Ken Stone's site describing LED drivers may help.

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsld.html

Best Wishes!


Cynthia

http://www.cyndustries.com/




db wrote:
>
> I have an LED on my mixer.
> I want to attach 5-10 leds to this same connector so I can see from a 
> few places.
>
> I'd imagine I need some kind of external circuit to do that.
> Is there something or some ideas anyone can point me towards?
> Can this LED voltage easily be a trigger to switch?
>
> dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar  8 17:26:01 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 09:26:01 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "voltage control" on the 556
Message-ID: <200903081626.n28GQ10T018390@linux7.lan>

>On 8 Mar 2009, at 05:04, Horton wrote:
>
> I was wondering if there's any way to take advantage of the "control
> voltage" pins on the 556...
> Am I totally barking up the wrong tree with this one, or what?

It works by varying the threshhold voltage at which the timer will reset.  As such,
it will control the pitch of an astable multivibrator, but within a limited range
and it will also change the output amplitude (lower amplitudes for higher frequencies).

A way to get better control over the pitch of a 555 oscillator is to use a circuit
like the PAiA FatMan VCO.

Also, the CMOS version (7555) which is pinout identical is a better IC because it
won't spit nasty current spikes at your power supply every time it resets.

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sun Mar  8 18:11:23 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 13:11:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV Aftertouch & Continuous controller types choice..
References: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>

Hi list,

I'm building a MIDI2CV that could play MONO (last note priority)
or POLY (max of 6 CV's / Gates)..
Here is the list of my 1/4" output jacks functions:

Poly mode:
6 X Gate outs (Gate1..Gate6)
6 X CV's outs (CV1..CV6)
6 X velocity outs (V1..V6)

Mono mode:
Gate1 out is used for last mono note played
CV1 out is used for last mono note played
Velocity 1 out is used for last mono note played
Velocity 2...6 used for the following order purposes:
Pitch Bend  Ok
Mod wheel Ok
After touch  <------- I need help on that
CC?      <------- I need help on that
CC?      <------- I need help on that

In the Channel Voice Messages list I found:

Polyphonic Key Pressure (Aftertouch)
3 bytes 1010nnnn , 0kkkkkkk , 0vvvvvvv
1010nnnn Polyphonic Key Pressure status byte;   nnnn (0-15) = MIDI channel 
1-16
kkkkkkk Note number (0-127)
vvvvvvv Pressure value (0-127)

Channel Pressure (Aftertouch)
2 bytes 1101nnnn , 0vvvvvvv
1101nnnn Channel Pressure status byte;   nnnn (0-15) = MIDI channel 1-16
vvvvvvv Pressure value (0-127)

---> What is the good Aftertouch  to chose from in MONO mode???

---> What Continous controler numbers do you suggest for my 2 CC's outs? 
CC1, CC2, CC7 ???
         I guess there must be some numbers much often used than others...

Thanks
JP
 



From igg.debus at t-online.de  Sun Mar  8 19:29:14 2009
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 19:29:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV Aftertouch & Continuous controller types choice..
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
References: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl>
	<00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
Message-ID: <AC048AF3-3728-4E53-9AF9-64E873725CB4@t-online.de>


Am 08.03.2009 um 18:11 schrieb Jean-Pierre Desrochers:

> ---> What is the good Aftertouch  to chose from in MONO mode???
>

If you want it perfect, it would react on both types, poly and mono.  
I've never seen a MIDI controller that sends both types at the same  
time, so your converter wouldn't get confused.
Many MIDI controllers only send mono aftertouch, so in poly mode I  
would allow for both types too.


> ---> What Continous controler numbers do you suggest for my 2 CC's  
> outs? CC1, CC2, CC7 ???
>         I guess there must be some numbers much often used than  
> others...

CC1 is Modulation Wheel, which you have already covered.
Can you make it selectable from your user interface? This would be  
the most versatile solution. Yes, some CCs are used more often than  
others, but some MIDI controllers use exotic ones. The Yamaha WX5 for  
instance sends CC#80 and CC#81.

Ingo


From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sun Mar  8 19:32:07 2009
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 18:32:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV Aftertouch & Continuous controller types choice..
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
References: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl>
	<00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
Message-ID: <6DAC3D5B-0C0F-11DE-A599-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>

Hi JP.


On Mar 8, 2009, at 17:11, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> ---> What is the good Aftertouch  to chose from in MONO mode???

I would go for Channel aftertouch, because it's a *lot* more common 
than poly aftertouch. The prophet T8 (IIRC) and several Ensoniq synths 
(SQ80 etc) use poly aftertouch, but despite being very expressive, you 
don't see it that around often compared to common Channel aftertouch.

>
> ---> What Continous controler numbers do you suggest for my 2 CC's 
> outs? CC1, CC2, CC7 ???
>         I guess there must be some numbers much often used than 
> others...

The most common IMO are CC1 (Mod wheel) CC4 (foot pedal control) and 
CC7 (Volume). This is simply because they are often found on 
synths/keyboards and controllers.
MW is very common, and if you have a user choice to select between the 
other 2 for the second CC, that would be a useful feature.

cheers,
Dave



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sun Mar  8 19:42:27 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:42:27 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV Aftertouch & Continuous controller types choice..
References: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl><00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
	<AC048AF3-3728-4E53-9AF9-64E873725CB4@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <00b901c9a01d$a164bfc0$6600a8c0@PCLyne>

>> ---> What Continous controler numbers do you suggest for my 2 CC's  outs? 
>> CC1, CC2, CC7 ???

> Can you make it selectable from your user interface?

This is gonna be difficult in my design...
I already use Mod wheel C#1, that's why I ask for suggestion on other most 
used CC's number (I only need 2 more)

>> ---> What is the good Aftertouch  to chose from in MONO mode???
>>
>
> If you want it perfect, it would react on both types, poly and mono.  I've 
> never seen a MIDI controller that sends both types at the same  time, so 
> your converter wouldn't get confused.

Since my aftertouch out will react in my MONO mode
you suggest to 'read' both MONO & POLY incoming aftertouch type ?

JP

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ingo Debus" <igg.debus at t-online.de>
To: "synth diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI2CV Aftertouch & Continuous controller types 
choice..


>
> Am 08.03.2009 um 18:11 schrieb Jean-Pierre Desrochers:
>
>> ---> What is the good Aftertouch  to chose from in MONO mode???
>>
>
> If you want it perfect, it would react on both types, poly and mono.  I've 
> never seen a MIDI controller that sends both types at the same  time, so 
> your converter wouldn't get confused.
> Many MIDI controllers only send mono aftertouch, so in poly mode I  would 
> allow for both types too.
>
>
>> ---> What Continous controler numbers do you suggest for my 2 CC's  outs? 
>> CC1, CC2, CC7 ???
>>         I guess there must be some numbers much often used than 
>> others...
>
> CC1 is Modulation Wheel, which you have already covered.
> Can you make it selectable from your user interface? This would be  the 
> most versatile solution. Yes, some CCs are used more often than  others, 
> but some MIDI controllers use exotic ones. The Yamaha WX5 for  instance 
> sends CC#80 and CC#81.
>
> Ingo
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> __________ NOD32 3917 (20090307) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> 



From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Sun Mar  8 19:49:58 2009
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 18:49:58 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV Aftertouch & Continuous controller types choice..
In-Reply-To: <AC048AF3-3728-4E53-9AF9-64E873725CB4@t-online.de>
References: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl>
	<00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
	<AC048AF3-3728-4E53-9AF9-64E873725CB4@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <EC5A303C-0C11-11DE-A599-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>


On Mar 8, 2009, at 18:29, Ingo Debus wrote:
>
> CC1 is Modulation Wheel, which you have already covered.

oops... Just noticed that.... (brain IN GEAR please Dave.... ;-)

Other possibly useful ones. CC74 (brightness) is used by a few apps to 
control filter cutoff. The others that spring to mind are, CC2 (breath 
control)
CC6 (data) CC10 (pan) and CC11 (expression)

If they *have* to be fixed, I'd go for CC4 and CC7, just because most 
keyboards will have them.

cheers,
Dave







> Can you make it selectable from your user interface? This would be the 
> most versatile solution. Yes, some CCs are used more often than 
> others, but some MIDI controllers use exotic ones. The Yamaha WX5 for 
> instance sends CC#80 and CC#81.
>
> Ingo
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From igg.debus at t-online.de  Sun Mar  8 20:53:05 2009
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 20:53:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV Aftertouch & Continuous controller types choice..
In-Reply-To: <00b901c9a01d$a164bfc0$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
References: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl><00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
	<AC048AF3-3728-4E53-9AF9-64E873725CB4@t-online.de>
	<00b901c9a01d$a164bfc0$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
Message-ID: <B771DB9C-4E2C-4FCA-8DB8-CC7985EB782A@t-online.de>


Am 08.03.2009 um 19:42 schrieb Jean-Pierre Desrochers:

> you suggest to 'read' both MONO & POLY incoming aftertouch type ?

Yes, but as Dave wrote, it's probably fine just to read mono  
aftertouch. If your device is in mono mode, you'd have to ignore the  
note information in the poly aftertouch messages anyway.
I once owned a Roland A-80 masterkeyboard. This could send poly and  
mono aftertouch alternatively, but never both at the same time. I  
don't know how other keyboards capable of poly aftertouch handle this.

Ingo


From louis at dompselaar.org  Sun Mar  8 21:31:19 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 21:31:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV Aftertouch & Continuous controller types choice..
In-Reply-To: <B771DB9C-4E2C-4FCA-8DB8-CC7985EB782A@t-online.de>
References: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl><00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
	<AC048AF3-3728-4E53-9AF9-64E873725CB4@t-online.de>
	<00b901c9a01d$a164bfc0$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
	<B771DB9C-4E2C-4FCA-8DB8-CC7985EB782A@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <32556E6B-5586-4E84-A90F-913B1E7F8471@dompselaar.org>

The GEM S2 and S3 were also, switchable between channel and poly AT,  
but never both at
the same time.

> Yes, but as Dave wrote, it's probably fine just to read mono  
> aftertouch. If your device is in mono mode, you'd have to ignore the  
> note information in the poly aftertouch messages anyway.
> I once owned a Roland A-80 masterkeyboard. This could send poly and  
> mono aftertouch alternatively, but never both at the same time. I  
> don't know how other keyboards capable of poly aftertouch handle this.



From matt at smiffytech.com  Sun Mar  8 23:18:10 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 08:48:10 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Single vs Dual Op Amp Supplies
In-Reply-To: <0KG700FRKDJ3HU@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KG700FRKDJ3HU@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49B44422.6000206@smiffytech.com>

Thanks for your replies, David.  Quoting from both in no particular order:

> Don't use a uC!  That's a complete copout!  Do it with analog, like a real
> man!  ;->
...>
 > And I'm actually dead serious about you resisting the temptation to
 > rely on digital techniques for this.  You'll never learn analog design
 > that way.

I believe that you speak wisely there.  With a) >99% of my experience 
being in the digital field and b) uCs selling for as much as or less 
than a glass of beer, my inclination is to seek a digital fix for just 
about every problem. Whilst this may help polish my digital skills, it 
does NOT help the analogue cause which is what half this exercise is about.

 > Yes, you can get A triangle from A square.  However, you need to
 > convert a square of any frequency at, say, 0 to 5 V, to a triangle at
 > that same frequency at 0 to 5 V.  The problem is, the current you send
 > to the integrator will be constant if you simply drop a constant
 > voltage across a resistor, say.  This means that the triangle will
 > have the same slope regardless.  Hence, only one certain frequency
 > will have the same amplitude as the square.  Anything slower will
 > increase in amplitude until the integrator opamp hits the rail.
 > Anything faster will decrease in amplitude until it becomes inaudible.

Understood - this is thus the crux of the matter.

 > Clear as mud?  I may develop a circuit to do what I've just described.
 > If I do, I'll send you the schematic, or if you've got access to
 > MultiSim, I'll send you the simulation file.

Don't have MultiSim nor have I ever looked at circuit simulation 
software before.  I tend to do it the 'old way' - build it, then stick a 
mutimeter/'scope on it.  Be interested to see the schematic - shouldn't 
prejudice my attempt at a solution too much!

Now I think I should set up a project directory and copy and paste all 
the relevant bits into a file in there.  What I thought was a little 
incidental bit looks to be a full-blown area for investigation.  Order 
of work probably needs to be:

1) Get the MIDI interface/assigner working, even if I don't include the 
arpeggiator code yet.
2) Build basic oscillator and have it receiving note data from (1).
3) Output from (2) to be offset and into split supply analogue section.
4) Make sure that output from (3) still looks like output from (2).
5) Tackle square to triangle problem.

That should take me a goodly while as I've got a ton of other projects 
both related and unrelated to attend to so won't even think what point 
(6) will be yet!

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Sun Mar  8 23:38:08 2009
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:38:08 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI2CV Aftertouch & Continuous controller types choice..
In-Reply-To: <B771DB9C-4E2C-4FCA-8DB8-CC7985EB782A@t-online.de>
References: <BAY144-W244421D624352F16D5D39AC8A30@phx.gbl><00aa01c9a010$e8946510$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
	<AC048AF3-3728-4E53-9AF9-64E873725CB4@t-online.de>
	<00b901c9a01d$a164bfc0$6600a8c0@PCLyne>
	<B771DB9C-4E2C-4FCA-8DB8-CC7985EB782A@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <846E47F4-AB78-4808-880D-B0A852240446@ntlworld.com>

Hi,

On 8 Mar 2009, at 19:53, Ingo Debus wrote:
>
> Am 08.03.2009 um 19:42 schrieb Jean-Pierre Desrochers:
>
>> you suggest to 'read' both MONO & POLY incoming aftertouch type ?
>
> Yes, but as Dave wrote, it's probably fine just to read mono  
> aftertouch. If your device is in mono mode, you'd have to ignore  
> the note information in the poly aftertouch messages anyway.

I'm curious as to why you say this.  Assuming the MONO mode has some  
storage (perhaps a stack) of which keys have been pressed in order to  
work out which note to play (in this case last note priority), surely  
you'd also want the note information from the poly aftertouch to  
track which aftertouch value you're actually interested in?

Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk





From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Sun Mar  8 23:41:46 2009
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:41:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single vs Dual Op Amp Supplies
In-Reply-To: <49B44422.6000206@smiffytech.com>
References: <0KG700FRKDJ3HU@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<49B44422.6000206@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <0CE9FD29-3012-46EE-B18B-7EF2FB289688@ntlworld.com>

Hi,

On 8 Mar 2009, at 22:18, Matthew Smith wrote:
> > Yes, you can get A triangle from A square.  However, you need to
> > convert a square of any frequency at, say, 0 to 5 V, to a  
> triangle at
> > that same frequency at 0 to 5 V.  The problem is, the current you  
> send
> > to the integrator will be constant if you simply drop a constant
> > voltage across a resistor, say.  This means that the triangle will
> > have the same slope regardless.  Hence, only one certain frequency
> > will have the same amplitude as the square.  Anything slower will
> > increase in amplitude until the integrator opamp hits the rail.
> > Anything faster will decrease in amplitude until it becomes  
> inaudible.
>
> Understood - this is thus the crux of the matter.

For example, the SGS-ATES M110 provides both squarewave outputs and a  
direct current output proportional to frequency for generating saw  
(simple integrator) or triangle (fancy bidirectional integrator) waves.

Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk





From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 01:34:35 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:34:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Tog board progress..finally
Message-ID: <341294.59490.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi all,

Well, that was a nasty little cold. Now that I am no longer an extra on the set of the movie Day of the Living Dead, I'm getting some backlog caught up. 

The latest rev of the TOG board has gone out for fab. This is rev 1.2, or as I like to call it, the Post-Blunder rev. I believe this is the one. I'll update the website as soon as I remember the @#$^ password.

--TimR


From rdrake at data2action.com  Mon Mar  9 01:51:45 2009
From: rdrake at data2action.com (rdrake)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:51:45 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 4059 "divide by n" chip
Message-ID: <20090309005145.12269.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>

anybody ever use the  the 4059 "divide by n" chip in an SDIY/emusic context? appears to be capable of any division between 3 to 15999, which would be immensely great for both suboctive divisors or fancy clocking/polyrhythms.  i've looked at the datasheet but feel a little lost... how do you select the division?... what are "jam inputs"??  

if anyone has a schematic of this being used in any kind of selectable divisor, i'd appreciate.


bbob


From danjel at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 01:52:35 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:52:35 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] making panels with metalphoto?
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903081752ma21166fhfb6a6bd02bba3a7d@mail.gmail.com>

I need to get a bunch of front panels made for the various DIY pcbs I
have been building.

I have looked at using Shaefer/Front Panel Express but I do not want
my graphics to be carved in.

After researching different methods I would like to use the METALPHOTO
product/process. It makes very durable and precise graphics on
aluminum up to 0.125" thick. You need to print the graphics first and
then cut the panel afterwards.

There are also seems to be a lot of fab shops around N.A. that offer
metalphoto services.

I was wondering if anyone had experience getting short runs of panels
made (e.g. 1-4 at a time) and had found the cheapest place to get the
panels made and cut (metalphoto and cnc cutting)?

It will be great if I can just send the place an Illustrator file: one
for graphics and one for drill/cut holes.

Examples of places I have found so far (and e-mailed for quotes):
http://www.mpofcinci.com/Panels/panels.asp
http://www.technigraphics.com/products_metalphoto.htm
http://www.tacomarubberstamp.com/metalphoto.aspx

The final products look very pro, but I fear there may be high setup costs....

cheers,
Danjel


Danjel van Tijn


From danjel at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 02:53:56 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 18:53:56 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] making panels with metalphoto?
In-Reply-To: <0KG70091AUBBLW@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <439ccfd90903081752ma21166fhfb6a6bd02bba3a7d@mail.gmail.com>
	<0KG70091AUBBLW@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903081853y9d51d31h7ebd140a9cf6a1d5@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Dave,

I am located in Vancouver too and I e-mailed a place in Langley to get
quotes. I have seen that metalphoto plates themselves are not too
expensive but you need to buy in bulk (25 minimum or something).

What  got me to look into this was the fact the Peter G from Plan B
said that he uses a process called Spot Annodizing for all his panels
including one-off proto panels. I am not sure if he meant metalphoto
but that seemed to be the most appropriate and widespread technology.

Have you had specific experience with this before? I see you are a
material eng. prof so I would trust your judgement!

btw, all accounts of lazertran make me very reluctant to use it. Both
the process and the final results seem less than desirable. Schaefer
panels are relatively cheap (and effective) but limited in what you
can do graphically. With so many sign shops out there making one-off
panels there has to be a better way!

cheers,
Danjel






On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:47 PM, David G. Dixon <dixon at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:
> I think you'll be shocked at how expensive this sort of thing is for
> one-offs. ?Have you thought about something DIY, like lazertran decals?
> There's a good website which explains this in detail for synth DIY panels:
>
> http://monopole.ph.qmw.ac.uk/~thomas/synthdiy/frontpanel.htm
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> David G. Dixon
> Professor
> Department of Materials Engineering
> University of British Columbia
> 309-6350 Stores Road
> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> Canada
>
> Tel 1-604-822-3679
> Fax 1-604-822-3619
>
> "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>
> The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
> intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). ?It
> must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority. ?If you
> are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
> copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
>> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Danjel van Tijn
>> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 5:53 PM
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: [sdiy] making panels with metalphoto?
>>
>> I need to get a bunch of front panels made for the various DIY pcbs I
>> have been building.
>>
>> I have looked at using Shaefer/Front Panel Express but I do not want
>> my graphics to be carved in.
>>
>> After researching different methods I would like to use the METALPHOTO
>> product/process. It makes very durable and precise graphics on
>> aluminum up to 0.125" thick. You need to print the graphics first and
>> then cut the panel afterwards.
>>
>> There are also seems to be a lot of fab shops around N.A. that offer
>> metalphoto services.
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone had experience getting short runs of panels
>> made (e.g. 1-4 at a time) and had found the cheapest place to get the
>> panels made and cut (metalphoto and cnc cutting)?
>>
>> It will be great if I can just send the place an Illustrator file: one
>> for graphics and one for drill/cut holes.
>>
>> Examples of places I have found so far (and e-mailed for quotes):
>> http://www.mpofcinci.com/Panels/panels.asp
>> http://www.technigraphics.com/products_metalphoto.htm
>> http://www.tacomarubberstamp.com/metalphoto.aspx
>>
>> The final products look very pro, but I fear there may be high setup
>> costs....
>>
>> cheers,
>> Danjel
>>
>>
>> Danjel van Tijn
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>



From jason at redfish.net  Mon Mar  9 09:52:37 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 00:52:37 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] thermistor question
Message-ID: <a06200712c5da88ce2f35@[10.0.1.2]>

i'm building the Curetronic Roland System-100M filter clone and it 
calls for an SDT-1000 10k thermistor. i can find many 10k thermistors 
at Mouser, but none with an SDT or 1000 mentioned in the spec. is the 
specification significant?

thanks,
j





From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon Mar  9 10:17:45 2009
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 02:17:45 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] making panels with metalphoto?
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903081752ma21166fhfb6a6bd02bba3a7d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <439ccfd90903081752ma21166fhfb6a6bd02bba3a7d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090309091745.GH25810@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 05:52:35PM -0700, Danjel van Tijn wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone had experience getting short runs of panels
> made (e.g. 1-4 at a time) and had found the cheapest place to get the
> panels made and cut (metalphoto and cnc cutting)?

I havent found any place to do small runs of Metalphoto will full
processing.  Did find a few that would run a one-off panel for me but I had
to do all cutting/drilling.

I personally use ID-Mark and I'm sure if I talk about it too much I will get
lynched cause I always mention it.  Check the archives.

You might also want to check with stg/soundlabs, he uses metalphoto and
might have some suggestions for you.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From erwill at suitandtieguy.com  Mon Mar  9 10:44:32 2009
From: erwill at suitandtieguy.com (Suit & Tie Guy)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 04:44:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] making panels with metalphoto?
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903081853y9d51d31h7ebd140a9cf6a1d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <439ccfd90903081752ma21166fhfb6a6bd02bba3a7d@mail.gmail.com>
	<0KG70091AUBBLW@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<439ccfd90903081853y9d51d31h7ebd140a9cf6a1d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8309C9F6-FEF8-4FD1-8D49-E02A870320E8@suitandtieguy.com>

On Mar 8, 2009, at 8:53 PM, Danjel van Tijn wrote:
> What  got me to look into this was the fact the Peter G from Plan B
> said that he uses a process called Spot Annodizing for all his panels
> including one-off proto panels. I am not sure if he meant metalphoto

Plan B modules (among others, including mine) use Metalphoto brand  
photographic aluminum.

it's very simple: it's half-anodised aluminum soaked in photo chemicals.

the plates are exposed in a darkroom from a 1:1 film negative in a  
vacuum table (those of us who used to or still work in prepress will  
be familiar with these things). then they are processed just like  
black and white photo paper: developed, fixed, washed. then they are  
put in boiling distilled water with a bit of nickel added. this  
finishes the anodising process.

the anodising isn't printed on, there's an image layer which is  
actually sealed inside the aluminum during anodising. this makes it  
very very very robust. 10 years of direct solar radiation with no  
fading? no big deal. this stuff is used for exterior legending on the  
International Space Station.

it's not very practical for one-off panels. in fact, it's extremely  
impractical for one-off panels. also the finish i use (matte .. for  
historical accuracy with my Moog format panels) is very prone to  
scratching and does not wear well. Satin or #4 finish is more robust.

also, it does not take to drilling very well so if you get into photo- 
aluminum you need to invest in punches too.

what exactly did you have in mind? i may or may not be able to help you.
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com



From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Mon Mar  9 11:34:02 2009
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:34:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Moog / MOTM Fixed Filter Bank PCB - interested?
In-Reply-To: <AD16D6258DD24CF58E53C8AD1E7FD060@jhsilent>
References: <AD16D6258DD24CF58E53C8AD1E7FD060@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <20090309103402.GA17738@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2009-02-20 11:14 +0100, JH. wrote:

> some of you may still remember my efforts to make a modern
> version of the Moog Fixed Filter bank (the smaller model, 907)
> for Synthesis Technology / MOTM.
> 
> This is a faithful reproduction of the original passive circuit
> topology, but with the inductors replaced with low noise General
> Impedance Converter technology. (Not the "usual" noisy
> single-opamp Gyrator circuits!)
> [...]
> In order to decide if it makes sense [to offer PCBs for this],
> from an economical point of view, I'd like to get some feedback
> from all who are seriously interested in such PCBs.

Does anybody know how this compares to the Oakley "Octal
resonator" ?

  http://oakleysound.com/octal.htm

I already have the Oakley one and tend to prefer parametric EQ to
graphic EQ so I may skip this one unless it sounds unique.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Mon Mar  9 14:07:19 2009
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragons)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 13:07:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: second touch was  distance meter for keyboard,
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903031629q1c159f0ara189689b9b72b989@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49AB824B.4090905@xs4all.nl>	<6.2.1.2.2.20090302072625.0208c858@mail.comcast.net>	<20090302153835.6E5D.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>	<cf1e1cb10903020853n58757fe9s2c1efaef39df6435@mail.gmail.com>	<908a4c120903020939i1e94a22dvfc6e9a655b740064@mail.gmail.com>	<cf1e1cb10903020941i4586202fic8c7b81e7299f75a@mail.gmail.com>	<908a4c120903021005g1c94c587pfe759e3ab1eef834@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10903031629q1c159f0ara189689b9b72b989@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B51487.5040202@googlemail.com>

Hi,
well I don't know if it would be called a classical instrument, but some 
theater organs do have second touch on the keyboards, so when you press 
a key down further you get an additional sound.
regards Peter

P.S if you happen to be interested to try out Theater organ sounds see
http://www.virtualorgan.com/
as one example.




cheater cheater wrote:

> I'm actually not sure of any classical instruments that use the key
> *displacement* to add a level of expression. Do you guys know any?
> 
> Cheers
> D.



From abisset at dspaudio.com  Mon Mar  9 15:55:18 2009
From: abisset at dspaudio.com (Anthony Bisset)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 07:55:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] source for brass or other exotic banana jacks (non-nickel)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0903090747540.29291@fourier>

Hey All

I'm in the process of planing some spalted maple for the surface of a
modular interface and plastic banana jacks are compromising the look.
I've found plenty of nickel plated banana jacks across the interweb but
brass or boron would look a lot better.  The little bit of JCD that I
have uses round brass Jacks, these would be ideal, but I have no idea
where to get them...

I'm interested in vintage/unusual plastic jacks as well, so If anyone can
help me out or point to sources that'd be great!
Cheers,

Anthony


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 15:58:24 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 07:58:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] thermistor question
Message-ID: <29198.47947.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Thermistors have different response curves based on their chemical makeup. 10K refers to the resistance at 25 degrees C. I can't find SDT 1000 anywhere except in reference to Roland equipment. Maybe it's a Roland number? 

If you use a random 10K thermistor it will probably be okay. Beyond the chance that you'll get the right curve, the curves are similar enough that if it's not in a critical part of the circuit it'll be fine.

--TimR


--- On Mon, 3/9/09, Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net> wrote:

> From: Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net>
> Subject: [sdiy] thermistor question
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 1:52 AM
> i'm building the Curetronic Roland
> System-100M filter clone and it calls for an SDT-1000 10k
> thermistor. i can find many 10k thermistors at Mouser, but
> none with an SDT or 1000 mentioned in the spec. is the
> specification significant?
> 
> thanks,
> j
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From cheater00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 17:06:06 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:06:06 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] source for brass or other exotic banana jacks (non-nickel)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0903090747540.29291@fourier>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0903090747540.29291@fourier>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903090906qc7a2fb6r950cda55a98485c9@mail.gmail.com>

Brass are going to be pretty bad! You don't want brass anywhere near
your conductor chain.
If you're concerned about the look, try gold-plated ones..

D.

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Anthony Bisset <abisset at dspaudio.com> wrote:
> Hey All
>
> I'm in the process of planing some spalted maple for the surface of a
> modular interface and plastic banana jacks are compromising the look.
> I've found plenty of nickel plated banana jacks across the interweb but
> brass or boron would look a lot better. ?The little bit of JCD that I
> have uses round brass Jacks, these would be ideal, but I have no idea
> where to get them...
>
> I'm interested in vintage/unusual plastic jacks as well, so If anyone can
> help me out or point to sources that'd be great!
> Cheers,
>
> Anthony
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From jason at redfish.net  Mon Mar  9 17:52:41 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:52:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] thermistor question
In-Reply-To: <29198.47947.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <29198.47947.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a06200701c5daf78e6fe2@[10.0.1.2]>

hey Tim,

thanks for the response.

yeah i think the SDT-1000 thing is a Roland designation, but i just 
wondered whether the 1000 might be significant somehow. i'm probably 
confusing thermistors with tempcos.

it's not critical, it's just the 1v/oct stabiliser thing :-)

tx
j


>Thermistors have different response curves based on their chemical 
>makeup. 10K refers to the resistance at 25 degrees C. I can't find 
>SDT 1000 anywhere except in reference to Roland equipment. Maybe 
>it's a Roland number?
>
>If you use a random 10K thermistor it will probably be okay. Beyond 
>the chance that you'll get the right curve, the curves are similar 
>enough that if it's not in a critical part of the circuit it'll be 
>fine.
>
>--TimR
>
>
>--- On Mon, 3/9/09, Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net> wrote:
>
>>  From: Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net>
>>  Subject: [sdiy] thermistor question
>>  To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>  Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 1:52 AM
>>  i'm building the Curetronic Roland
>>  System-100M filter clone and it calls for an SDT-1000 10k
>>  thermistor. i can find many 10k thermistors at Mouser, but
>>  none with an SDT or 1000 mentioned in the spec. is the
>>  specification significant?
>>
>>  thanks,
>>  j
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Synth-diy mailing list
>>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From danjel at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 18:06:34 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 10:06:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] making panels with metalphoto?
In-Reply-To: <8309C9F6-FEF8-4FD1-8D49-E02A870320E8@suitandtieguy.com>
References: <439ccfd90903081752ma21166fhfb6a6bd02bba3a7d@mail.gmail.com>
	<0KG70091AUBBLW@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<439ccfd90903081853y9d51d31h7ebd140a9cf6a1d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<8309C9F6-FEF8-4FD1-8D49-E02A870320E8@suitandtieguy.com>
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903091006r54050ea0kdd99a13cb7301a40@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Suit and Tie Guy,

I have a bunch of projects I have designed panels for. The first batch
is panels for three dual 281 clones.
But there are many more projects to be finished and most of them will
only require one or two panels.

What aspect of the metalphoto service makes them impractical for
single panels? Is it simply the price (e.g. setup costs?)

Also, why do the finished panels do not handle drilling so well?
Almost all the synth panels I want to make will have the same set of
3-4 hole sizes for pots, switches, and leds so I guess I could invest
in punches. However I would rather have the panels cnc cut by mill or
laser.

I am really looking for a complete turnkey solution where I send
graphics and cad files and I get a finished panel back. Looks like
Schaefer is the only thing that comes close but then you don't get
nice graphics.

cheers,
    Danjel



On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Suit & Tie Guy <erwill at suitandtieguy.com> wrote:
> On Mar 8, 2009, at 8:53 PM, Danjel van Tijn wrote:
>>
>> What ?got me to look into this was the fact the Peter G from Plan B
>> said that he uses a process called Spot Annodizing for all his panels
>> including one-off proto panels. I am not sure if he meant metalphoto
>
> Plan B modules (among others, including mine) use Metalphoto brand
> photographic aluminum.
>
> it's very simple: it's half-anodised aluminum soaked in photo chemicals.
>
> the plates are exposed in a darkroom from a 1:1 film negative in a vacuum
> table (those of us who used to or still work in prepress will be familiar
> with these things). then they are processed just like black and white photo
> paper: developed, fixed, washed. then they are put in boiling distilled
> water with a bit of nickel added. this finishes the anodising process.
>
> the anodising isn't printed on, there's an image layer which is actually
> sealed inside the aluminum during anodising. this makes it very very very
> robust. 10 years of direct solar radiation with no fading? no big deal. this
> stuff is used for exterior legending on the International Space Station.
>
> it's not very practical for one-off panels. in fact, it's extremely
> impractical for one-off panels. also the finish i use (matte .. for
> historical accuracy with my Moog format panels) is very prone to scratching
> and does not wear well. Satin or #4 finish is more robust.
>
> also, it does not take to drilling very well so if you get into
> photo-aluminum you need to invest in punches too.
>
> what exactly did you have in mind? i may or may not be able to help you.
> ---
> Suit & Tie Guy
> suitandtieguy.com
> stgsoundlabs.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From don at till.com  Mon Mar  9 18:18:03 2009
From: don at till.com (Donald Tillman)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:18:03 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Re: second touch was  distance meter for keyboard,
Message-ID: <m263iity2c.fsf@till.com>

cheater cheater wrote:
   > I'm actually not sure of any classical instruments that use the key
   > *displacement* to add a level of expression. Do you guys know any?

The Clavichord.  Pressing down on the keys stretches the strings.  The
technique is called "bebung" and is often used for vibrato.

This also applies to the Clavinet.  The Clavinet is sort of a reverse
Clavichord mechanism, so it has less of an effect.

And on the Mellotron, the keyboard has a spongey feel, and you can
fade the notes in and out a little bit with the keyboard.  This turns
out to be really useful with the 8 second tape limit, and it's common
practice to fade in a note an octave above on longer sustained notes.

  --- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Mon Mar  9 18:26:31 2009
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:26:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
Message-ID: <274242.83221.qm@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


Hi list, i have a strange problem; i can't get a 4027 flip-flop to behave like a flip-flop. I've got J & K high, SD & CD low, and i feed CP with a debounced positive-going signal. All i get is a high Q while CP is high, and then a low Q as soon as CP goes low. Am i missing something here? I've tried several ICs with no luck BUT i do have a version i did a week or two ago that works like a charm. I also tried decoupling my power-rails but to no avail...

Karl


      ___________________________________________________
S?k efter k?rleken!
Hitta din tvillingsj?l p? Yahoo! Dejting: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;185753627;24584539;x?http://se.meetic.yahoo.net/index.php?mtcmk=148783



From music.maker at gte.net  Mon Mar  9 18:36:20 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:36:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
Message-ID: <200903091736.n29HaKZv014294@linux7.lan>

Karl Ekdahl <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se> wrote:
>
>Hi list, i have a strange problem; i can't get a 4027 flip-flop 
>to behave like a flip-flop. I've got J & K high, SD & CD low, and 
>i feed CP with a debounced positive-going signal. All i get is a 
>high Q while CP is high, and then a low Q as soon as CP goes low. 
>Am i missing something here? I've tried several ICs with no luck 
>BUT i do have a version i did a week or two ago that works like a 
>charm. I also tried decoupling my power-rails but to no avail... 
>


Are you _100%_ sure that your clock is really debounced?  Is it slewing
fast enough when it changes state?  

What I would do - use a nice square wave oscillator with an output that
conforms to the logic standard to drive your clock input.  Then watch
the Q output with a scope, it should be exactly 1/2 the frequency of
the input clock.  If that works, then the flip flop is toggling and
your debounce needs work.  

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From derennep at brutele.be  Mon Mar  9 19:54:28 2009
From: derennep at brutele.be (Philippe Derenne)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:54:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
References: <200903091736.n29HaKZv014294@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <E41C32E0B7594FE6B495698CBBF52215@c2q266>

A missing decoupling capacitor would be a possible cause as wel...

Phil.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Gravenhorst" <music.maker at gte.net>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness


> Karl Ekdahl <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se> wrote:
>>
>>Hi list, i have a strange problem; i can't get a 4027 flip-flop 
>>to behave like a flip-flop. I've got J & K high, SD & CD low, and 
>>i feed CP with a debounced positive-going signal. All i get is a 
>>high Q while CP is high, and then a low Q as soon as CP goes low. 
>>Am i missing something here? I've tried several ICs with no luck 
>>BUT i do have a version i did a week or two ago that works like a 
>>charm. I also tried decoupling my power-rails but to no avail... 
>>
> 
> 
> Are you _100%_ sure that your clock is really debounced?  Is it slewing
> fast enough when it changes state?  
> 
> What I would do - use a nice square wave oscillator with an output that
> conforms to the logic standard to drive your clock input.  Then watch
> the Q output with a scope, it should be exactly 1/2 the frequency of
> the input clock.  If that works, then the flip flop is toggling and
> your debounce needs work.  
> 
> -- ScottG
> ________________________________________________________________________
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Mar  9 19:58:22 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:58:22 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903091006r54050ea0kdd99a13cb7301a40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about Metalphoto, I note that some
synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide transfer decals for their panels.  I'd
be interested in hearing any stories (good or bad) about using this.  I
understand that it is very easy to tear the decals during the transfer
process, and at nearly $4 a sheet (twice as much as the aluminum panel it
would be sticking to!), I really don't want that to happen!

Also, I would like to know if anyone has tried Papilio decals as an
alternative, and how they compare.

I'm interested in bake-on decals applied directly to unpainted aluminum
sheet.

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.



From sadpaul at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 20:22:32 2009
From: sadpaul at gmail.com (Sadpaul)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:22:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <47C21F4E-FBC4-485F-A31C-DA9C08D38EE1@gmail.com>

Where do people get the metal for the panels?

Thanks,

On Mar 9, 2009, at 1:58 PM, David G. Dixon wrote:

> Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about Metalphoto, I note  
> that some
> synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide transfer decals for their  
> panels.  I'd
> be interested in hearing any stories (good or bad) about using  
> this.  I
> understand that it is very easy to tear the decals during the transfer
> process, and at nearly $4 a sheet (twice as much as the aluminum  
> panel it
> would be sticking to!), I really don't want that to happen!
>
> Also, I would like to know if anyone has tried Papilio decals as an
> alternative, and how they compare.
>
> I'm interested in bake-on decals applied directly to unpainted  
> aluminum
> sheet.
>
> David G. Dixon
> Professor
> Department of Materials Engineering
> University of British Columbia
> 309-6350 Stores Road
> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> Canada
>
> Tel 1-604-822-3679
> Fax 1-604-822-3619
>
> "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>
> The information in this email and in any attachments is  
> confidential and
> intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee 
> (s).  It
> must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's  
> authority.  If you
> are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for  
> delivering it to
> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not  
> disclose,
> copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From abisset at dspaudio.com  Mon Mar  9 20:32:14 2009
From: abisset at dspaudio.com (Anthony Bisset)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:32:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] source for brass or other exotic banana jacks (non-nickel)
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903090906qc7a2fb6r950cda55a98485c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0903090747540.29291@fourier>
	<cf1e1cb10903090906qc7a2fb6r950cda55a98485c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0903091225480.4078@fourier>


I've worked with a lot of JCD panels from the 80's which use brass banana
jacks and it's been fine.  I like corrosion, and plan on investigating how
to integrate it into a modular synth someday...



On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, cheater cheater wrote:

> Brass are going to be pretty bad! You don't want brass anywhere near
> your conductor chain.
> If you're concerned about the look, try gold-plated ones..
>
> D.
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Anthony Bisset <abisset at dspaudio.com> wrote:
> > Hey All
> >
> > I'm in the process of planing some spalted maple for the surface of a
> > modular interface and plastic banana jacks are compromising the look.
> > I've found plenty of nickel plated banana jacks across the interweb but
> > brass or boron would look a lot better. ?The little bit of JCD that I
> > have uses round brass Jacks, these would be ideal, but I have no idea
> > where to get them...
> >
> > I'm interested in vintage/unusual plastic jacks as well, so If anyone can
> > help me out or point to sources that'd be great!
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Anthony
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Mon Mar  9 20:35:33 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 13:35:33 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <439ccfd90903091006r54050ea0kdd99a13cb7301a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090309132448.020d2d50@mail.comcast.net>

I tried several brands of inkjet slide decals and found these to work the best:
http://beldecals.com/inkjet_decals.html
Oh -- no baking.

Ian


At 12:58 PM 3/9/2009, David G. Dixon wrote:
>Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about Metalphoto, I note that some
>synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide transfer decals for their panels.  I'd
>be interested in hearing any stories (good or bad) about using this.  I
>understand that it is very easy to tear the decals during the transfer
>process, and at nearly $4 a sheet (twice as much as the aluminum panel it
>would be sticking to!), I really don't want that to happen!
>
>Also, I would like to know if anyone has tried Papilio decals as an
>alternative, and how they compare.
>
>I'm interested in bake-on decals applied directly to unpainted aluminum
>sheet.
>
>David G. Dixon
>Professor
>Department of Materials Engineering
>University of British Columbia
>309-6350 Stores Road
>Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
>Canada
>
>Tel 1-604-822-3679
>Fax 1-604-822-3619
>
>"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>
>The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
>intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
>must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
>are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
>the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
>copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From lists at studionebula.com  Mon Mar  9 20:42:28 2009
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:42:28 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] 16x4 sequencer with add-on modules thought
In-Reply-To: <758691.21613.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <758691.21613.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <010501c9a0ef$2ec4ff20$1102a8c0@Mariko>

The makers of the DipTrace schematic capture and PCB layout software which I
use offer a design service:
http://diptrace.com/pcbdesign.php
However, I've never used it, know nothing about its pricing, and can't vouch
for the results. I'm just a happy user of their software.

--Adam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of bill bigrig
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] 16x4 sequencer with add-on modules thought
> 
> 
> Howdy,
> 
>  i have an idea for a 16x3, or 16x4 sequencer that would be a 
> 'master unit' with add-on modules to increase the steps in 
> increments of 16. Or just the main module with identical 
> add-ons that can be added for expansion of steps, or separate 
> sequencers running in tandem. My question is, where or who 
> can I take a circuit drawing and have a PCB designed for it? 
> It can be sold as a complete unit or in kit form. The main 
> thing is, it can be cascaded to allow multiplesof 16,(+/- 
> sreps in the final stage) to acheive long sequences if the 
> musician so desires. Any PCB design resouces out there?
> Rig
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 21:01:23 2009
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 22:01:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] source for brass or other exotic banana jacks (non-nickel)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0903091225480.4078@fourier>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0903090747540.29291@fourier>
	<cf1e1cb10903090906qc7a2fb6r950cda55a98485c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0903091225480.4078@fourier>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80903091301s71951765oecd46049655cf214@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Anthony Bisset <abisset at dspaudio.com> wrote:
>
> I've worked with a lot of JCD panels from the 80's which use brass banana
> jacks and it's been fine. ?I like corrosion, and plan on investigating how
> to integrate it into a modular synth someday...
>
>
>
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, cheater cheater wrote:
>
>> Brass are going to be pretty bad! You don't want brass anywhere near
>> your conductor chain.
>> If you're concerned about the look, try gold-plated ones..
>>
>> D.
>>
>

I just think some indestructible guitar cable had these brass plugs in
it.. those plugs were Switchcraft branded. Go figure?

Samppa



From louis at dompselaar.org  Mon Mar  9 21:06:38 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:06:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] thermistor question
In-Reply-To: <a06200701c5daf78e6fe2@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <29198.47947.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<a06200701c5daf78e6fe2@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <B717D13D-F434-4654-BF91-C0411FB1EFEE@dompselaar.org>

FWIW, I used the 10k tempcos sold by Takuya Katayama on this list for  
the Curetronic filter
and those worked fine.  Mind you, I'm not one for perfectly tuned  
filters, so it might
actually have been crap, tuning wise (I sold it, so can't check now),  
but it wasn't so bad it
was noticable to me ;-)


Op 9 mrt 2009, om 17:52 heeft Jason Proctor het volgende geschreven:

> hey Tim,
>
> thanks for the response.
>
> yeah i think the SDT-1000 thing is a Roland designation, but i just  
> wondered whether the 1000 might be significant somehow. i'm probably  
> confusing thermistors with tempcos.
>
> it's not critical, it's just the 1v/oct stabiliser thing :-)
>
> tx
> j



From altitude at optrand.com  Mon Mar  9 21:12:12 2009
From: altitude at optrand.com (Altitude)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:12:12 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20090309132448.020d2d50@mail.comcast.net>
References: <439ccfd90903091006r54050ea0kdd99a13cb7301a40@mail.gmail.com><0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090309132448.020d2d50@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <01dc01c9a0f3$55fed170$6701a8c0@optrand.com>

Hey Ian,

  Can you elaborate why like them?  I have been using the water slide
lasertran and would love to hear about alternatives.

Cheers,
Raph 

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Ian Fritz
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:36 PM
To: David G. Dixon; 'synthdiy DIY'
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Panels with decals

I tried several brands of inkjet slide decals and found these to work the
best:
http://beldecals.com/inkjet_decals.html
Oh -- no baking.

Ian


At 12:58 PM 3/9/2009, David G. Dixon wrote:
>Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about Metalphoto, I note that 
>some synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide transfer decals for their 
>panels.  I'd be interested in hearing any stories (good or bad) about 
>using this.  I understand that it is very easy to tear the decals 
>during the transfer process, and at nearly $4 a sheet (twice as much as 
>the aluminum panel it would be sticking to!), I really don't want that to
happen!
>
>Also, I would like to know if anyone has tried Papilio decals as an 
>alternative, and how they compare.
>
>I'm interested in bake-on decals applied directly to unpainted aluminum 
>sheet.
>
>David G. Dixon
>Professor
>Department of Materials Engineering
>University of British Columbia
>309-6350 Stores Road
>Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
>Canada
>
>Tel 1-604-822-3679
>Fax 1-604-822-3619
>
>"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>
>The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential 
>and intended solely for the attention and use of the named 
>addressee(s).  It must not be disclosed to any person without the 
>writer's authority.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person 
>responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are not 
>authorized to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this
message or any part of it.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From louis at dompselaar.org  Mon Mar  9 21:30:08 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:30:08 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] thermistor question
In-Reply-To: <a06200708c5db29c2ef86@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <29198.47947.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<a06200701c5daf78e6fe2@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B717D13D-F434-4654-BF91-C0411FB1EFEE@dompselaar.org>
	<a06200708c5db29c2ef86@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <0A24022C-CF33-4755-8BE5-90370CD5E568@dompselaar.org>

I had 10uF bipolar in my parts bin, so that's what I used.


> btw do you remember what caps you used for c4 and c9? the docs say  
> 10uf org: bipolar, indicating that he's switched the originals out  
> for polars or something.



From horton.andrew at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 23:15:15 2009
From: horton.andrew at gmail.com (Horton)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:15:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
Message-ID: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>

There are so many basic knowledge things out there that are just taken
for granted by the computer-brain electronics wizards, so for a new
hobbyist there are no real guides or 101-style information.

I'm in the middle of a project and suddenly I need to mount a punch of
pots and switches into a typical plastic project enclosure. I have no
idea where to begin! What's up with the nuts, and that little tab
sticking out of the pot body? Should I ground each pot to the metal in
the case in addition to the ground bus on the PCB? How? What size
drill bit do I use to make the holes, and how do I secure the pot body
against the frame of the enclosure anyway? I need all this basic info.

Ideas? Tutorials? Instructables?

AH


From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Tue Mar 10 00:23:18 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Elby Designs - Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:23:18 +0900
Subject: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
Message-ID: <16728.1236640998@ozemail.com.au>

I am happy to try and answer any questions you may have.

With regards the pots.
the tab is an anti-rotation device. It fits in to a mating hole or recess on the
panel and stops the pot from trying to spin in the hole should you try and ram
the control past its end stops. If youu have a sufficiently large knob that will
cover the hole, then I would include this. It is, however, a lot of extra work
and if you intend to treat your controls with some respect then you can forget
them. On pots that have the tab phsyiclly aprt of the pot body, simply get a pair
of heavy-duty pliers and snap it off (this is usually just a matter of wiggling
it back and forth a few times) - it is unlikely that you will do any damage to
the pot unless you are ridiculously clumsy. Some pots have a tab on a separate
washer (much like many switches have) and you can discard the washer or sometimes
just flip it over so the tab points towards the pot body.

If you are using plastic/rubber/wooden or other similar non-conductive knobs then
there is no real need to ground the pots. Once the panel has a ground connection,
you can usually rely on the metal bush of the pot making the electrical
connection to do this for you. If you WANT to ground the pots then you need what
are commonly called eyelets or lugs. These are like a washer with a tag sticking
out one side. Fit the washer over the bush before mounting the pot to the panel.
You can then attach a ground wire to the tab.

Hole size is dictated by the pot. You should have a datasheet for the pot or the
catalogue where you got them from should at least mention the panel hole size
needed. if you can't find that then just grab one of the pot washers and measure
the inside gap at the widest point or just get a box of drill bits and find the
bit that just fits in the washer.

Best regards
Laurie Biddulph
www.elby-designs.com

On Tue Mar 10  9:15 , Horton  sent:

>There are so many basic knowledge things out there that are just taken
>for granted by the computer-brain electronics wizards, so for a new
>hobbyist there are no real guides or 101-style information.
>
>I'm in the middle of a project and suddenly I need to mount a punch of
>pots and switches into a typical plastic project enclosure. I have no
>idea where to begin! What's up with the nuts, and that little tab
>sticking out of the pot body? Should I ground each pot to the metal in
>the case in addition to the ground bus on the PCB? How? What size
>drill bit do I use to make the holes, and how do I secure the pot body
>against the frame of the enclosure anyway? I need all this basic info.
>
>Ideas? Tutorials? Instructables?
>
>AH
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>)





From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Mar 10 00:46:52 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:46:52 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
In-Reply-To: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F8BF04F-031B-405A-AA80-1EAD729A2C0E@electricdruid.net>

Horton,

On 9 Mar 2009, at 22:15, Horton wrote:
>
> I'm in the middle of a project and suddenly I need to mount a punch of
> pots and switches into a typical plastic project enclosure. I have no
> idea where to begin! What's up with the nuts, and that little tab
> sticking out of the pot body? Should I ground each pot to the metal in
> the case in addition to the ground bus on the PCB? How? What size
> drill bit do I use to make the holes, and how do I secure the pot body
> against the frame of the enclosure anyway? I need all this basic info.
>

If you're drilling holes in plastic enclosures, I've found it helps  
to start small and work up. If you go straight in with a large drill  
(say 10mm, about 4/10th inch) you risk the drill snagging in the  
hole. I shattered a plastic enclosure that way once, and I've messed  
up a few holes more by being impatient. It's much worse with blunt  
drills!

Regards,
Tom




From harrybissell at wowway.com  Tue Mar 10 01:03:09 2009
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:03:09 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <439ccfd90903091006r54050ea0kdd99a13cb7301a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <20090309235357.M43184@wowway.com>

Try using "Alumajet" ... its thin aluminum that you can inkjet print directly
on.  Fix it to your pre-drilled aluminum panel, and cut the holes with
an x-acto knife.  Spray with clear laquer. Use good quality inkjet ink... not
the dye type that smells like ammonia. Dye will fade in direct sunlight
(I tested it :^)

H^) harry

On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:58:22 -0700, David G. Dixon wrote
> Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about Metalphoto, I note 
> that some synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide transfer decals for 
> their panels.  I'd be interested in hearing any stories (good or bad)
>  about using this.  I understand that it is very easy to tear the 
> decals during the transfer process, and at nearly $4 a sheet (twice 
> as much as the aluminum panel it would be sticking to!), I really 
> don't want that to happen!
> 
> Also, I would like to know if anyone has tried Papilio decals as an
> alternative, and how they compare.
> 
> I'm interested in bake-on decals applied directly to unpainted aluminum
> sheet.
> 
> David G. Dixon
> Professor
> Department of Materials Engineering
> University of British Columbia
> 309-6350 Stores Road
> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> Canada
> 
> Tel 1-604-822-3679
> Fax 1-604-822-3619
> 
> "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> 
> The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential 
> and intended solely for the attention and use of the named 
> addressee(s).  It must not be disclosed to any person without the 
> writer's authority.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a 
> person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you 
> are not authorized to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or 
> retain this message or any part of it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Tue Mar 10 01:07:32 2009
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:07:32 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
In-Reply-To: <2F8BF04F-031B-405A-AA80-1EAD729A2C0E@electricdruid.net>
References: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<2F8BF04F-031B-405A-AA80-1EAD729A2C0E@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <20090310000555.M56804@wowway.com>

Try "brad-point" drills that are reverse cut for thin sheetmetal...
they look like some wood boring bits. Those can work too if they are really
sharp... the drill cuts the outside edge first.

H^) harry




On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:46:52 +0000, Tom Wiltshire wrote
> Horton,
> 
> On 9 Mar 2009, at 22:15, Horton wrote:
> >
> > I'm in the middle of a project and suddenly I need to mount a punch of
> > pots and switches into a typical plastic project enclosure. I have no
> > idea where to begin! What's up with the nuts, and that little tab
> > sticking out of the pot body? Should I ground each pot to the metal in
> > the case in addition to the ground bus on the PCB? How? What size
> > drill bit do I use to make the holes, and how do I secure the pot body
> > against the frame of the enclosure anyway? I need all this basic info.
> >
> 
> If you're drilling holes in plastic enclosures, I've found it helps  
> to start small and work up. If you go straight in with a large drill  
> (say 10mm, about 4/10th inch) you risk the drill snagging in the 
>  hole. I shattered a plastic enclosure that way once, and I've 
> messed  up a few holes more by being impatient. It's much worse with 
> blunt  drills!
> 
> Regards,
> Tom
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From paul.dickow at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 01:09:09 2009
From: paul.dickow at gmail.com (Paul Dickow)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:09:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
In-Reply-To: <2F8BF04F-031B-405A-AA80-1EAD729A2C0E@electricdruid.net>
References: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<2F8BF04F-031B-405A-AA80-1EAD729A2C0E@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <f93c02ec0903091709q13e14ba5k243d36e99ba4336c@mail.gmail.com>

As another noobee with questions about super-basic basics, I'll chime
in with a suggestion regarding the holes- starting small and going up.
Depending on your material a Unibit seems to be super useful, as it
steps upward in audio-component-friendly increments, rather than being
a single size bit. Hard to describe, so google it. Its a weird looking
bit. It will be your friend. Make sure to dent the metal/put a little
dot with an exacto if you're using plastic to keep the drill from
squiggling around.
---
As for noob questions, I've had some ones of my own that are really
funny, like my recent post here searching for 47k pots instead of 50k
pots and learning that they are more or less the same!! Some things
slip under the FAQ cracks, and I've almost thought about starting a
page that answers some newbie questions I had because I'm sure other
people had them as well.

I've been lucky enough to have help from friends and listmembers in my
local area who do synth DIY and will lend a hand and let me use their
tools etc. I learn by watching so between friends and videos I've made
huge strides. Can you identify anyone in your area through these lists
and forums that you can cooperate with? Some urban areas have a
Dorkbot organization meeting or Analogue Heaven meeting, other
stuff....Where people get together and often there's opportunities for
first hand learning.

Videos online tutorials on youtube and stuff have been great as well.

Paul


On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
> Horton,
>
> On 9 Mar 2009, at 22:15, Horton wrote:
>>
>> I'm in the middle of a project and suddenly I need to mount a punch of
>> pots and switches into a typical plastic project enclosure. I have no
>> idea where to begin! What's up with the nuts, and that little tab
>> sticking out of the pot body? Should I ground each pot to the metal in
>> the case in addition to the ground bus on the PCB? How? What size
>> drill bit do I use to make the holes, and how do I secure the pot body
>> against the frame of the enclosure anyway? I need all this basic info.
>>
>
> If you're drilling holes in plastic enclosures, I've found it helps to start
> small and work up. If you go straight in with a large drill (say 10mm, about
> 4/10th inch) you risk the drill snagging in the hole. I shattered a plastic
> enclosure that way once, and I've messed up a few holes more by being
> impatient. It's much worse with blunt drills!
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
Paul Dickow
STRATEGY
www.community-library.net
www.archigramophone.com
Community Library/Kranky/Audio Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Mar 10 01:26:27 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:26:27 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <01dc01c9a0f3$55fed170$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
References: <439ccfd90903091006r54050ea0kdd99a13cb7301a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090309132448.020d2d50@mail.comcast.net>
	<01dc01c9a0f3$55fed170$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090309182339.02166248@mail.comcast.net>

At 02:12 PM 3/9/2009, Altitude wrote:
>   Can you elaborate why like them?  I have been using the water slide
>lasertran and would love to hear about alternatives.

I tried several brands, but I don't remember which ones.  Some the paper 
was too thick and slipped while going through the printer.  Some always 
bled over time.  I have not tried the Lazertran -- I believe they did not 
have inkjet at the time.  I should get some to experiment with.

Ian 



From matt at smiffytech.com  Tue Mar 10 01:50:57 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:20:57 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20090309182339.02166248@mail.comcast.net>
References: <439ccfd90903091006r54050ea0kdd99a13cb7301a40@mail.gmail.com>	<0KG9009FD61A0N@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>	<6.2.1.2.2.20090309132448.020d2d50@mail.comcast.net>	<01dc01c9a0f3$55fed170$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090309182339.02166248@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <49B5B971.4080901@smiffytech.com>

OK, how about this for an idea?

Make front panel out of thin brass or copper.

Use PCB photoetch process (you can get photoresist that can be lamiated 
on) to etch all lettering, holes, etcetera.

Laminate onto plastic backing piece (colour that will show through the 
etched lettering holes.)

Lacquer or put transparent laminate on front.

Alternatively, you could use the etched sheet as a stencil and spray or 
otherwise paint through onto a solid panel.



-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Tue Mar 10 02:56:36 2009
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:56:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "voltage control" on the 556
In-Reply-To: <200903080645.n286j44G013963@linux7.lan>
References: <200903080645.n286j44G013963@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <49B5C8D4.6080709@imt.net>

I'm trying to recall one of my early lab exploits with an Apple IIe.  We 
decided to use it for some crude data intake when they were the hot 
thing in the early early 80's.  It had a 556 too it seems.  Been so long 
though.  It was generating a 'window' though that would 'AND' with a 
pulse string and a counter would count the number of pulses.  And it was 
calibrated so that the max pulses would be 255 as I recall. -Bob

Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>Horton <horton.andrew at gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm building an atari punk console -
>>http://compiler.kaustic.net/machines/apc.html - and while I'm at it, I
>>was wondering what other sorts of modifications I can add to it. Since
>>I'm planning on making a bunch of little CMOS noisemakers and effects,
>>I was wondering if there's any way to take advantage of the "control
>>voltage" pins on the 556. My only knowledge of CV is typical 0-5V
>>stuff on modular synths but I was wondering if those two pins are in
>>any way similar to voltage control as I know it. My only real goal is
>>extra freakout/chaos on this circuit, so I'm certainly not looking for
>>something like 1v/octave control or anything like that, but I was
>>imagining being able to patch in the output of something else that I
>>build later.
>>
>>Am I totally barking up the wrong tree with this one, or what?
>>
>>    
>>
>
>hmm...  try it?
>
>
>
>-- ScottG
>________________________________________________________________________
>-- Scott Gravenhorst
>-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
>-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Tue Mar 10 04:33:22 2009
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:33:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
Message-ID: <835835.15903.qm@web26201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


> Try using "Alumajet" ... its thin
> aluminum that you can inkjet print directly
> on.? Fix it to your pre-drilled aluminum panel, and
> cut the holes with
> an x-acto knife.? Spray with clear laquer. Use good
> quality inkjet ink... not
> the dye type that smells like ammonia. Dye will fade in
> direct sunlight
> (I tested it :^)

How much is this "alumajet" stuff and where can you get it? The only US distributor i found required registration to access their shop which in turn required a credit check (which seems very strange)..

Karl
 
> H^) harry
> 
> On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:58:22 -0700, David G. Dixon wrote
> > Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about
> Metalphoto, I note 
> > that some synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide
> transfer decals for 
> > their panels.? I'd be interested in hearing any
> stories (good or bad)
> >? about using this.? I understand that it is
> very easy to tear the 
> > decals during the transfer process, and at nearly $4 a
> sheet (twice 
> > as much as the aluminum panel it would be sticking
> to!), I really 
> > don't want that to happen!
> > 
> > Also, I would like to know if anyone has tried Papilio
> decals as an
> > alternative, and how they compare.
> > 
> > I'm interested in bake-on decals applied directly to
> unpainted aluminum
> > sheet.
> > 
> > David G. Dixon
> > Professor
> > Department of Materials Engineering
> > University of British Columbia
> > 309-6350 Stores Road
> > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> > Canada
> > 
> > Tel 1-604-822-3679
> > Fax 1-604-822-3619
> > 
> > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> > 
> > The information in this email and in any attachments
> is confidential 
> > and intended solely for the attention and use of the
> named 
> > addressee(s).? It must not be disclosed to any
> person without the 
> > writer's authority.? If you are not the intended
> recipient, or a 
> > person responsible for delivering it to the intended
> recipient, you 
> > are not authorized to and must not disclose, copy,
> distribute, or 
> > retain this message or any part of it.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      __________________________________________________________
L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014



From synth at casperelectronics.com  Tue Mar 10 05:07:20 2009
From: synth at casperelectronics.com (peter edwards)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:07:20 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
In-Reply-To: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59CC1CAE-3079-4A7F-995E-387844A74F70@casperelectronics.com>

I think Laurie's answer is a good one, but I strongly disagree with  
his casual stance on the anti-rotation tab. :-)
I do a lot of repair and salvage and I have seen plenty of problems  
stem from the lack of proper utilization of the anti-rotation  
tabs....really. People very commonly cut the tab off and I always  
recommend that they do not. Using the tab makes for a more solid  
interface. And think about it, the knobs are your connection between  
you and the functions of the device you're tweaking. This interface  
should be as reliable as you can make it with a reasonable amount of  
work.

  The quickest way to drill the hole for the tab is to A) measure how  
far the tab is from the center of the pot shaft and mark a hole that  
far from the main shaft hole on your faceplate.
  or B) First drill a hole for the main shaft of the pot. Then press  
the pot through the hole so that that tab is pressed against the face  
plate and turn the pot back and forth a few degrees. This should make  
a little mark showing you where to drill the hole.
The tabs are usually flat on smaller and/or cheaper pots. I used to  
try to make rectangular holes for the tabs to stick through which was  
really silly and time consuming. Now I just measure across the width  
of the tab and drill a hole that size. They're usually around an 1/8"  
wide.
if the hole is a little too small, you can usually force it through  
anyway, especially if you are using a plastic faceplate, that ensures  
that you get a nice tight fit.

As far as grounding the pots goes, Laurie's suggestion of eyelet  
washers is the best approach. IF you are desperate and you NEED to  
ground the pot and you don't have any eyelets, you can solder a  
ground wire to the body of the pot. But be aware that the pot will  
get very hot! This could damage the plastic elements of certain pots,  
like the back cover or the shuttle which holds the center lug wiper.  
You will need to abrade a small area on the side of the pot where you  
will be soldering your ground wire. I use a dremel with a cutting  
wheel to do this. Don't cut into the pot! you just want to rough up  
the surface. Then you will probably need some flux to help solder to  
the surface. Flux is a toxic pasty material that helps prepare the  
surface of dirty metals for soldering. Just put a little dab on the  
area you are going to solder to. Another thing to be aware of is that  
soldering to large metal surfaces is much more difficult than  
soldering to the little lugs on a pot or leads on a circuit board.  
Metal dissipates heat very quickly through it's mass... so as you are  
heating up the areas to solder to, the heat is being pulled away..  
you will need to turn your iron up higher than usual or if you have a  
set temperature iron, you will need to hold it there longer than  
usual. Melt a big blob of solder onto the tip of your iron as you are  
heating the ground spot. This will help spread the point of contact  
between the iron and pot surface which will allow for a quicker  
transfer of heat.
Despite my little rant above about the importance of reliable pot  
behavior, I have used this grounding technique more than once.  
Luckily I have not had any problems with melting parts or  
malfunctioning pots. If anyone thinks this a totally wacko  
suggestion, don't hesitate to say so!
-pete

On Mar 9, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Elby Designs - Laurie Biddulph wrote:
> I am happy to try and answer any questions you may have.
>
> With regards the pots.
> the tab is an anti-rotation device. It fits in to a mating hole or  
> recess on the
> panel and stops the pot from trying to spin in the hole should you  
> try and ram
> the control past its end stops. If youu have a sufficiently large  
> knob that will
> cover the hole, then I would include this. It is, however, a lot of  
> extra work
> and if you intend to treat your controls with some respect then you  
> can forget
> them. On pots that have the tab phsyiclly aprt of the pot body,  
> simply get a pair
> of heavy-duty pliers and snap it off (this is usually just a matter  
> of wiggling
> it back and forth a few times) - it is unlikely that you will do  
> any damage to
> the pot unless you are ridiculously clumsy. Some pots have a tab on  
> a separate
> washer (much like many switches have) and you can discard the  
> washer or sometimes
> just flip it over so the tab points towards the pot body.
>
> If you are using plastic/rubber/wooden or other similar non- 
> conductive knobs then
> there is no real need to ground the pots. Once the panel has a  
> ground connection,
> you can usually rely on the metal bush of the pot making the  
> electrical
> connection to do this for you. If you WANT to ground the pots then  
> you need what
> are commonly called eyelets or lugs. These are like a washer with a  
> tag sticking
> out one side. Fit the washer over the bush before mounting the pot  
> to the panel.
> You can then attach a ground wire to the tab.
>
> Hole size is dictated by the pot. You should have a datasheet for  
> the pot or the
> catalogue where you got them from should at least mention the panel  
> hole size
> needed. if you can't find that then just grab one of the pot  
> washers and measure
> the inside gap at the widest point or just get a box of drill bits  
> and find the
> bit that just fits in the washer.
>
> Best regards
> Laurie Biddulph
> www.elby-designs.com
>
> On Tue Mar 10  9:15 , Horton  sent:
>
>> There are so many basic knowledge things out there that are just  
>> taken
>> for granted by the computer-brain electronics wizards, so for a new
>> hobbyist there are no real guides or 101-style information.
>>
>> I'm in the middle of a project and suddenly I need to mount a  
>> punch of
>> pots and switches into a typical plastic project enclosure. I have no
>> idea where to begin! What's up with the nuts, and that little tab
>> sticking out of the pot body? Should I ground each pot to the  
>> metal in
>> the case in addition to the ground bus on the PCB? How? What size
>> drill bit do I use to make the holes, and how do I secure the pot  
>> body
>> against the frame of the enclosure anyway? I need all this basic  
>> info.
>>
>> Ideas? Tutorials? Instructables?
>>
>> AH
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> )
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Tue Mar 10 05:20:10 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:20:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
In-Reply-To: <59CC1CAE-3079-4A7F-995E-387844A74F70@casperelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <0KG9002FKW1MH9@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

If one wants to be really fancy, one could cut about half of the tab off,
and then drill a hole only part way through the panel using the stop on a
drill press (like when you countersink a screw hole).

Of course, I always cut mine off too.  :)

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of peter edwards
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:07 PM
> To: Horton
> Cc: Electronics_101 at yahoogroups.com; Synth DIY List
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
> 
> I think Laurie's answer is a good one, but I strongly disagree with
> his casual stance on the anti-rotation tab. :-)
> I do a lot of repair and salvage and I have seen plenty of problems
> stem from the lack of proper utilization of the anti-rotation
> tabs....really. People very commonly cut the tab off and I always
> recommend that they do not. Using the tab makes for a more solid
> interface. And think about it, the knobs are your connection between
> you and the functions of the device you're tweaking. This interface
> should be as reliable as you can make it with a reasonable amount of
> work.
> 
>   The quickest way to drill the hole for the tab is to A) measure how
> far the tab is from the center of the pot shaft and mark a hole that
> far from the main shaft hole on your faceplate.
>   or B) First drill a hole for the main shaft of the pot. Then press
> the pot through the hole so that that tab is pressed against the face
> plate and turn the pot back and forth a few degrees. This should make
> a little mark showing you where to drill the hole.
> The tabs are usually flat on smaller and/or cheaper pots. I used to
> try to make rectangular holes for the tabs to stick through which was
> really silly and time consuming. Now I just measure across the width
> of the tab and drill a hole that size. They're usually around an 1/8"
> wide.
> if the hole is a little too small, you can usually force it through
> anyway, especially if you are using a plastic faceplate, that ensures
> that you get a nice tight fit.
> 
> As far as grounding the pots goes, Laurie's suggestion of eyelet
> washers is the best approach. IF you are desperate and you NEED to
> ground the pot and you don't have any eyelets, you can solder a
> ground wire to the body of the pot. But be aware that the pot will
> get very hot! This could damage the plastic elements of certain pots,
> like the back cover or the shuttle which holds the center lug wiper.
> You will need to abrade a small area on the side of the pot where you
> will be soldering your ground wire. I use a dremel with a cutting
> wheel to do this. Don't cut into the pot! you just want to rough up
> the surface. Then you will probably need some flux to help solder to
> the surface. Flux is a toxic pasty material that helps prepare the
> surface of dirty metals for soldering. Just put a little dab on the
> area you are going to solder to. Another thing to be aware of is that
> soldering to large metal surfaces is much more difficult than
> soldering to the little lugs on a pot or leads on a circuit board.
> Metal dissipates heat very quickly through it's mass... so as you are
> heating up the areas to solder to, the heat is being pulled away..
> you will need to turn your iron up higher than usual or if you have a
> set temperature iron, you will need to hold it there longer than
> usual. Melt a big blob of solder onto the tip of your iron as you are
> heating the ground spot. This will help spread the point of contact
> between the iron and pot surface which will allow for a quicker
> transfer of heat.
> Despite my little rant above about the importance of reliable pot
> behavior, I have used this grounding technique more than once.
> Luckily I have not had any problems with melting parts or
> malfunctioning pots. If anyone thinks this a totally wacko
> suggestion, don't hesitate to say so!
> -pete
> 
> On Mar 9, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Elby Designs - Laurie Biddulph wrote:
> > I am happy to try and answer any questions you may have.
> >
> > With regards the pots.
> > the tab is an anti-rotation device. It fits in to a mating hole or
> > recess on the
> > panel and stops the pot from trying to spin in the hole should you
> > try and ram
> > the control past its end stops. If youu have a sufficiently large
> > knob that will
> > cover the hole, then I would include this. It is, however, a lot of
> > extra work
> > and if you intend to treat your controls with some respect then you
> > can forget
> > them. On pots that have the tab phsyiclly aprt of the pot body,
> > simply get a pair
> > of heavy-duty pliers and snap it off (this is usually just a matter
> > of wiggling
> > it back and forth a few times) - it is unlikely that you will do
> > any damage to
> > the pot unless you are ridiculously clumsy. Some pots have a tab on
> > a separate
> > washer (much like many switches have) and you can discard the
> > washer or sometimes
> > just flip it over so the tab points towards the pot body.
> >
> > If you are using plastic/rubber/wooden or other similar non-
> > conductive knobs then
> > there is no real need to ground the pots. Once the panel has a
> > ground connection,
> > you can usually rely on the metal bush of the pot making the
> > electrical
> > connection to do this for you. If you WANT to ground the pots then
> > you need what
> > are commonly called eyelets or lugs. These are like a washer with a
> > tag sticking
> > out one side. Fit the washer over the bush before mounting the pot
> > to the panel.
> > You can then attach a ground wire to the tab.
> >
> > Hole size is dictated by the pot. You should have a datasheet for
> > the pot or the
> > catalogue where you got them from should at least mention the panel
> > hole size
> > needed. if you can't find that then just grab one of the pot
> > washers and measure
> > the inside gap at the widest point or just get a box of drill bits
> > and find the
> > bit that just fits in the washer.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Laurie Biddulph
> > www.elby-designs.com
> >
> > On Tue Mar 10  9:15 , Horton  sent:
> >
> >> There are so many basic knowledge things out there that are just
> >> taken
> >> for granted by the computer-brain electronics wizards, so for a new
> >> hobbyist there are no real guides or 101-style information.
> >>
> >> I'm in the middle of a project and suddenly I need to mount a
> >> punch of
> >> pots and switches into a typical plastic project enclosure. I have no
> >> idea where to begin! What's up with the nuts, and that little tab
> >> sticking out of the pot body? Should I ground each pot to the
> >> metal in
> >> the case in addition to the ground bus on the PCB? How? What size
> >> drill bit do I use to make the holes, and how do I secure the pot
> >> body
> >> against the frame of the enclosure anyway? I need all this basic
> >> info.
> >>
> >> Ideas? Tutorials? Instructables?
> >>
> >> AH
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> )
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Tue Mar 10 05:34:44 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:34:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <20090310041949.GK25810@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <0KG9002NDWPWH9@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

I'd just like to thank everyone on the list who responded, personally and
publicly, to my query (Tom, Harry, Ian, many others...).  I've learned more
about the options for panel DIY in one evening than I did in two months of
aimless internet searching.

I think I'm going to compile a list of all the responses I've gotten, with
the relevant URLs, and post them here tomorrow for ready reference.

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Arnold [mailto:xyzzy at sysabend.org]
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:20 PM
> To: David G. Dixon
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Panels with decals
> 
> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 08:06:33PM -0700, David G. Dixon wrote:
> > The developing equipment just doesn't appeal.  Also, I've just bought a
> > bunch of 1/8" 5052 panels from Metal Supermarkets, and I'm barely
> catching
> > one thread on my Alpha pots with stooge brackets as it is, so I'm
> hesitant
> > to put anything thick on top.  Plus, the virgin aluminum under the
> > protective tape is really nice, and I'd like to see it in the finished
> > product.
> 
> Yeah, if you use 1/8" panels you'll have problems with Kobiconn jacks too.
> I went the Blacet route with harder metal ( 6062 ) but thinner.
> 
> > I think I'm edging towards decals -- just simple black printing (from
> FPD in
> > wire mode).  If I don't like it, I can always do it over, as the panels
> will
> > have only cost me about $2 each, and the transfer paper is about 90
> cents
> > per sheet!
> 
> I need to put up pictures of various decal attempts.  I wasn't pleased
> with
> them in general.
> 
> I can't remember if I talked to you previously or not s I may be
> duplicating
> links or something but here is another intresting option for you:
> http://www.pulsarprofx.com/
> 
> You remove the carrier plastic with this method, so all my complaints
> with normal decals go away plus it opens up a wide world of colours
> including white which was important to me.  Price isn't bad if you dont go
> crazy on colours.  the stuff goes a long way.
> 
> I need to update my page...
> 
> --
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------
>  - Tom Arnold           -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>  - Sysabend Caretaker   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?"
>  ------------------------       -- Neal Stephenson,  Snow Crash



From rtellason at verizon.net  Tue Mar 10 06:46:24 2009
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:46:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 4059 "divide by n" chip
In-Reply-To: <20090309005145.12269.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
References: <20090309005145.12269.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <200903100146.25367.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Sunday 08 March 2009 08:51:45 pm rdrake wrote:
> anybody ever use the  the 4059 "divide by n" chip in an SDIY/emusic
> context? appears to be capable of any division between 3 to 15999, which
> would be immensely great for both suboctive divisors or fancy
> clocking/polyrhythms.  

Maybe,  maybe not.  I've not seen these parts used much,  but it's my 
understanding that the spacing of the output pulses are _not_ even,  that it 
can be pretty darn irregular.  Which can work for some things,  but maybe not 
so well for what you're talking about.

> i've looked at the datasheet but feel a little lost... 

Whose datasheet?  I just looked on my parts pages,  realized that part wasn't 
represented there,  and snagged a TI one for the CD4059 and a different one 
(Philips?) for the 74HC4059 variant.  One of those also mentions an 
application note that might be worth pursuing.

> how do you select the division?... what are "jam inputs"?? 

I think  you just answered your own question there.

> if anyone has a schematic of this being used in any kind of selectable
> divisor, i'd appreciate.

Those chips,  along with "rate multiplier" chips,  are ones that struck me as 
being rather useful parts at first glance,  but you never seem to see them 
used anywhere.  That I know of.  Are they even currently available?

I'll be interested in seeing what other responses your query generates.



-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From erwill at suitandtieguy.com  Tue Mar 10 06:57:55 2009
From: erwill at suitandtieguy.com (Suit & Tie Guy)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:57:55 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
In-Reply-To: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50807AB9-5771-4026-B785-BCFF66EED4D9@suitandtieguy.com>

On Mar 9, 2009, at 5:15 PM, Horton wrote:
> Ideas? Tutorials? Instructables?


dude, you should bring that stuff down here and have a soldering and  
putting-holes-in-things party with me. we're practically neighbors!
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com



From erwill at suitandtieguy.com  Tue Mar 10 07:52:34 2009
From: erwill at suitandtieguy.com (Suit & Tie Guy)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:52:34 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] embarrassing noob needs to mount some pots
In-Reply-To: <59CC1CAE-3079-4A7F-995E-387844A74F70@casperelectronics.com>
References: <a9ce79240903091515m48820ee4vbd2bfb45725c27a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<59CC1CAE-3079-4A7F-995E-387844A74F70@casperelectronics.com>
Message-ID: <A4262EC1-337B-419A-9CFB-C34377B3F055@suitandtieguy.com>

On Mar 9, 2009, at 11:07 PM, peter edwards wrote:
> I do a lot of repair and salvage and I have seen plenty of problems  
> stem from the lack of proper utilization of the anti-rotation  
> tabs....really. People very commonly cut the tab off and I always  
> recommend that they do not. Using the tab makes for a more solid  
> interface.

let's complicate things.

i must respectfully disagree the anti-rotation tab is necessary.

internal tooth lockwashers are at least as good if not a better way  
to secure the potentiometer to the front panel. all of my 1/4" jacks  
and potentiometers have hardware in this order: component,  
lockwasher, panel, panel washer, nut.

now on a high density layout, where you've got a bunch of PC mount  
potentiometers? yeah i think using the anti-rotation tab is a good  
idea there.
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com



From juzowen at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 10 11:54:25 2009
From: juzowen at googlemail.com (Justin Owen)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:54:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
Message-ID: <49b646e6.08eb300a.1fc2.36e7@mx.google.com>

----Original Message-----
From: David G. Dixon [dixon at interchange.ubc.ca]
Received: 09.03.2009 19:06:46
To: 'synthdiy DIY'
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals

> Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about Metalphoto, I note that some
> synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide transfer decals for their panels.  I'd
> be interested in hearing any stories (good or bad) about using this. 

David,

It's probably worth mentioning that the results of any of these decals, transfers, Lazertran etc, is going to depend, at least partly, on the surface it's going on and the lacquer/clear coat that is used to seal it.

Lazertran advertises that it will go clear (or at least opaque) once it is coated with a clear lacquer - and there's enough happy customers on this list to prove that it does - apparently.

For me though, using it on an ABS surface coated with acrylic-based auto paints gave lousy results - a kind of flaky, white, only vaguely semi-opaque finish, that worked reasonably well over a silver background - but was pretty much useless over anything else. I tried a whole bunch of different techniques to make it work - and then decided to give it a miss. Curiously - most of the people who have used it and are happy with it - seem to be putting it on a silver/aluminium (metal) background (as far as I can tell).

I've recently started experimenting with this...

http://www.craftycomputerpaper.co.uk/products-Laser-water-slide-decal-paper_155.htm

It needs very good surface prep - light sanding, keying and cleaning, alot of practice at application - and loads of patience - but the results aren't too bad - good even. I'd guess, that on, say, a sheet of well made steel/aluminium, etc - you might even get great results.

This is all based entirely on my own, quite specific, experience - YMMV.

HTH,

Justin




From altitude at optrand.com  Tue Mar 10 13:54:09 2009
From: altitude at optrand.com (Altitude)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:54:09 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <49b646e6.08eb300a.1fc2.36e7@mx.google.com>
References: <49b646e6.08eb300a.1fc2.36e7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <021c01c9a17f$4e38beb0$6701a8c0@optrand.com>

My experience is that lasertran needs an absolutely smooth surface to get
good results and the proper clear coat.  The best results I have had were on
a painted panel sanded with automotive grade paper (1500 grit) followed by a
solvent based clear.  The absolute worst results were on sliver anodized
aluminum.  Great thread though, I love to hear about alternatives.  My holy
grail at this point is something with a white background that I can get
white lettering on black with.

r

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Justin Owen
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:54 AM
To: David G. Dixon; 'synthdiy DIY'
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Panels with decals

----Original Message-----
From: David G. Dixon [dixon at interchange.ubc.ca]
Received: 09.03.2009 19:06:46
To: 'synthdiy DIY'
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals

> Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about Metalphoto, I note 
> that some synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide transfer decals for 
> their panels.  I'd be interested in hearing any stories (good or bad)
about using this.

David,

It's probably worth mentioning that the results of any of these decals,
transfers, Lazertran etc, is going to depend, at least partly, on the
surface it's going on and the lacquer/clear coat that is used to seal it.

Lazertran advertises that it will go clear (or at least opaque) once it is
coated with a clear lacquer - and there's enough happy customers on this
list to prove that it does - apparently.

For me though, using it on an ABS surface coated with acrylic-based auto
paints gave lousy results - a kind of flaky, white, only vaguely semi-opaque
finish, that worked reasonably well over a silver background - but was
pretty much useless over anything else. I tried a whole bunch of different
techniques to make it work - and then decided to give it a miss. Curiously -
most of the people who have used it and are happy with it - seem to be
putting it on a silver/aluminium (metal) background (as far as I can tell).

I've recently started experimenting with this...

http://www.craftycomputerpaper.co.uk/products-Laser-water-slide-decal-paper_
155.htm

It needs very good surface prep - light sanding, keying and cleaning, alot
of practice at application - and loads of patience - but the results aren't
too bad - good even. I'd guess, that on, say, a sheet of well made
steel/aluminium, etc - you might even get great results.

This is all based entirely on my own, quite specific, experience - YMMV.

HTH,

Justin


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Tue Mar 10 14:49:50 2009
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:49:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
Message-ID: <720668.42375.qm@web26201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


> Are you _100%_ sure that your clock is really
> debounced?? Is it slewing
> fast enough when it changes state?? 
> 
> What I would do - use a nice square wave oscillator with an
> output that
> conforms to the logic standard to drive your clock
> input.? Then watch
> the Q output with a scope, it should be exactly 1/2 the
> frequency of
> the input clock.? If that works, then the flip flop is
> toggling and
> your debounce needs work.? 

I tried the above and put a scope on the Q output of the IC. Here's the interesting thing; it didn't do anything until i probed the CP input with another scope probe - apparently it needed some capacitance in the tens of pF-range using the LFO i tried it with. This doesn't really make any sense to me but maybe it does to someone else. 

So, tried it with a very extreme debouncing circuit; 20K input resistance to a 10uF cap with a 1M to ground. One scope probe on the Q output and one probe on the CP input. Here i could see the charge/discharge curve and basically the Q output just reflected the input of CP - when CP goes HIGH, so does Q, when CP goes LOW, Q will follow.

I've checked my power lines for both HF and LF oscillation but found nothing, i've put a few caps on but to no avail.

The parts i'm using are CD4027 from All Electronics, they're supposed to be new but frankly they look kinda old.. (not like pulls but NOS) i've never bought logic chips from them before, perhaps it was a bad idea.

Karl

> 
> -- ScottG
> ________________________________________________________________________
> -- Scott Gravenhorst
> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information:
> home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command
> line.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      __________________________________________________________
G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling. 
S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325



From geow at pacificcoast.net  Tue Mar 10 15:37:09 2009
From: geow at pacificcoast.net (George Welsh)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:37:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <021c01c9a17f$4e38beb0$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
References: <49b646e6.08eb300a.1fc2.36e7@mx.google.com>
	<021c01c9a17f$4e38beb0$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c9a18d$b1e1b670$15a52350$@net>

Ditto what this fellow said, I use it pretty much the same way, only over
automotive acrylic
paint, follow this with a wipe of isopropyl alcohol and then apply reverse
image so toner is face down, I then dry and bake, which I think makes for a
more robust panel. Baking only take 20 mins or so, cool and clear coat.
Important, you can only bake the laser version, not the inkjet version and
this may hold true for lacquering to make opaque. I work in frac format so I
can get 4 doubles+ 2 singles on one page of Lazertran.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Altitude
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:54 AM
To: 'Justin Owen'; 'David G. Dixon'; 'synthdiy DIY'
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Panels with decals

My experience is that lasertran needs an absolutely smooth surface to get
good results and the proper clear coat.  The best results I have had were on
a painted panel sanded with automotive grade paper (1500 grit) followed by a
solvent based clear.  The absolute worst results were on sliver anodized
aluminum.  Great thread though, I love to hear about alternatives.  My holy
grail at this point is something with a white background that I can get
white lettering on black with.

r

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Justin Owen
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:54 AM
To: David G. Dixon; 'synthdiy DIY'
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Panels with decals

----Original Message-----
From: David G. Dixon [dixon at interchange.ubc.ca]
Received: 09.03.2009 19:06:46
To: 'synthdiy DIY'
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals

> Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about Metalphoto, I note 
> that some synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide transfer decals for 
> their panels.  I'd be interested in hearing any stories (good or bad)
about using this.

David,

It's probably worth mentioning that the results of any of these decals,
transfers, Lazertran etc, is going to depend, at least partly, on the
surface it's going on and the lacquer/clear coat that is used to seal it.

Lazertran advertises that it will go clear (or at least opaque) once it is
coated with a clear lacquer - and there's enough happy customers on this
list to prove that it does - apparently.

For me though, using it on an ABS surface coated with acrylic-based auto
paints gave lousy results - a kind of flaky, white, only vaguely semi-opaque
finish, that worked reasonably well over a silver background - but was
pretty much useless over anything else. I tried a whole bunch of different
techniques to make it work - and then decided to give it a miss. Curiously -
most of the people who have used it and are happy with it - seem to be
putting it on a silver/aluminium (metal) background (as far as I can tell).

I've recently started experimenting with this...

http://www.craftycomputerpaper.co.uk/products-Laser-water-slide-decal-paper_
155.htm

It needs very good surface prep - light sanding, keying and cleaning, alot
of practice at application - and loads of patience - but the results aren't
too bad - good even. I'd guess, that on, say, a sheet of well made
steel/aluminium, etc - you might even get great results.

This is all based entirely on my own, quite specific, experience - YMMV.

HTH,

Justin


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1992 - Release Date: 03/09/09
19:20:00



From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Mar 10 19:30:17 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:30:17 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
Message-ID: <200903101830.n2AIUHJ7019432@linux7.lan>

Karl Ekdahl <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se> wrote:
>
>> Are you _100%_ sure that your clock is really
>> debounced?? Is it slewing
>> fast enough when it changes state?? 
>> 
>> What I would do - use a nice square wave oscillator with an
>> output that
>> conforms to the logic standard to drive your clock
>> input.? Then watch
>> the Q output with a scope, it should be exactly 1/2 the
>> frequency of
>> the input clock.? If that works, then the flip flop is
>> toggling and
>> your debounce needs work.? 
>
>I tried the above and put a scope on the Q output of the IC. 
>Here's the interesting thing; it didn't do anything until i 
>probed the CP input with another scope probe - apparently it 
>needed some capacitance in the tens of pF-range using the LFO i 
>tried it with. This doesn't really make any sense to me but maybe 
>it does to someone else. 
>
>So, tried it with a very extreme debouncing circuit; 20K input 
>resistance to a 10uF cap with a 1M to ground. One scope probe on 
>the Q output and one probe on the CP input. Here i could see the 
>charge/discharge curve and basically the Q output just reflected 
>the input of CP - when CP goes HIGH, so does Q, when CP goes LOW, 
>Q will follow. 
>
>I've checked my power lines for both HF and LF oscillation but 
>found nothing, i've put a few caps on but to no avail. 
>
>The parts i'm using are CD4027 from All Electronics, they're 
>supposed to be new but frankly they look kinda old.. (not like 
>pulls but NOS) i've never bought logic chips from them before, 
>perhaps it was a bad idea. 

Hmm.  I've bought stuff over there, but honestly never IC parts.  Does this happen with
both FFs in the package?  

The debounce you describe - why the 10uF?  Is this for a switch?  I think a schmitt
trigger following that might be better...  A capacitor/resistor (if I'm visualizing
what you did correctly) will cause the signal to transit logic levels slowly and when
the input is halfway between the IC's rails, it can "chatter" and do naughtiness.

There _is_ always the chance that the IC is not up to par.  If you can get one from
another source, you can prove that.  I've only gotten them (4027 in particular) from
digikey/mouser/jameco, but have never had such problems.


>> -- ScottG
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> -- Scott Gravenhorst
>> -- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information:
>> home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
>> -- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
>> -- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
>> -- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command
>> line.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
>
>
>      __________________________________________________________
>G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling. 
>S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
>http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Mar 10 19:58:27 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:58:27 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
In-Reply-To: <200903101830.n2AIUHJ7019432@linux7.lan>
References: <200903101830.n2AIUHJ7019432@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090310124734.020d26d8@mail.comcast.net>

At 12:30 PM 3/10/2009, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:

>The debounce you describe - why the 10uF?  Is this for a switch?  I think 
>a schmitt
>trigger following that might be better...  A capacitor/resistor (if I'm 
>visualizing
>what you did correctly) will cause the signal to transit logic levels 
>slowly and when
>the input is halfway between the IC's rails, it can "chatter" and do 
>naughtiness.

According to the data book I  have the clock needs to transition in under 5 
us.  How exactly are you doing your debouncing?

Ian 



From profpep at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 10 21:38:22 2009
From: profpep at hotmail.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:38:22 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
References: <200903101830.n2AIUHJ7019432@linux7.lan>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090310124734.020d26d8@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY111-DAV13C8B92B8703F2E1D780F2A1A10@phx.gbl>

> At 12:30 PM 3/10/2009, Scott Gravenhorst wrote:
>
> >The debounce you describe - why the 10uF?  Is this for a switch?  I think
> >a schmitt
> >trigger following that might be better...  A capacitor/resistor (if I'm
> >visualizing
> >what you did correctly) will cause the signal to transit logic levels
> >slowly and when
> >the input is halfway between the IC's rails, it can "chatter" and do
> >naughtiness.
>
> According to the data book I  have the clock needs to transition in under
5
> us.  How exactly are you doing your debouncing?
>
This is a classic problem: too slow a debounce time contant and the input
spends too long in the indeterminate state. It can oscillate or pick up
noise and generate multiple triggers.

Options: If you want to use a long time constant - like to 'slug' double
pushes or seomthing like that, put a schmidt trigger circuit inverter
(40106), on the input. If that gets the polarity wrong, just use another of
the schmidts asa pure inverter. The input time constant will stay 'soft',
but the on/off transition at the output will be up to spec'.

||\/||ike



From jhaible at debitel.net  Tue Mar 10 22:24:16 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:24:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Triple Chorus ("Solina") PCBs re-run: It's official!
Message-ID: <51DA2B2942AF4D78B63C0F5380DF420E@jhsilent>

Thanks to all who showed interest. I'll start another PCB run soon.
If you want to participate, please fill and return the order form below.
(Don't forget the email subject line).
Boards will be rady for shipping in a few weeks. Do *not* pay anything now;
I'll send out invoices when the boards are ready for shipping.
Thank you!

(See http://www.jhaible.heim.at/triple_chorus/triple_chorus.html

for details about the project.)

Pricing is EUR 27.00 per board,

plus a single EUR 6.00 shipping flat charge for worldwide shipping,

regardless how many boards you are ordering and where you live.

It does *not* include any customs fees or tax that you may (or may not) have

to pay in your county.

What you get is a double-sided printed circuit board with component overlay,

approx. size 160mm x 100mmm.

You have to buy the electronic components for this, and build the device,

yourself. (Check the above website regularly for updates and building hints,

bill of matrials etc. A PDF with the component overlay is already there.)

Most components are easily available and cheap standard parts.

In addition to that you need 3 (three) TDA1022 chips. These are BBD chips

that are no longer in production, make sure you can get them before you
order PCBs.

If you want to place an order, please send me an email to the following

adress:

jhaible at debitel.net

and use the FOLLOWING FORM (fill in your data instead of [],

for instance: "2 Boards" instead of "[quantity] Boards")

===== Start of Email Order Form ===============

Subject line: Triple Chorus PCB order: [quantity] boards

Email text:

I'm ordering [quantity] pieces of the Triple Chorus PCB

for EUR 27.00 per board + EUR 6.00 single shipping flat charge for any

number of boards.

I'm aware that I may have to pay additional amounts of customs and tax in my

country.

My shipping adress is

[Your Name]

[Your street, number, city, ZIP code, in exactly the form

that is generally used in your country]

[your country]

My paypal adress is [your paypal adress].

I===== End of Email Order Form =========

Looking forward to hear fom you :)

JH.



From scott at tellun.com  Wed Mar 11 00:14:12 2009
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:14:12 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [motm] Triple Chorus ("Solina") PCBs re-run: It's
	official!
In-Reply-To: <51DA2B2942AF4D78B63C0F5380DF420E@jhsilent>
References: <51DA2B2942AF4D78B63C0F5380DF420E@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <CC06B4E7-74C6-408C-97E0-20E62DD4F020@tellun.com>

Is anybody on this list selling TDA1022 chips?

Anyone know of a source besides cricklewood (UK) and vintage planet  
(NL) for TDA1022s?



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Mar 11 00:34:12 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:34:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [motm] Triple Chorus ("Solina") PCBs re-run: It's
	official!
In-Reply-To: <CC06B4E7-74C6-408C-97E0-20E62DD4F020@tellun.com>
References: <51DA2B2942AF4D78B63C0F5380DF420E@jhsilent>
	<CC06B4E7-74C6-408C-97E0-20E62DD4F020@tellun.com>
Message-ID: <49B6F8F4.2050200@burnit.co.uk>

http://www.dalbani.co.uk/search.php?by=name&type=exact&q=TDA1022

What's wrong with cricklewood anyway?

Seb


Scott Juskiw wrote:
> Is anybody on this list selling TDA1022 chips?
>
> Anyone know of a source besides cricklewood (UK) and vintage planet 
> (NL) for TDA1022s?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>




From scott at tellun.com  Wed Mar 11 00:55:06 2009
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:55:06 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [motm] Triple Chorus ("Solina") PCBs re-run: It's
	official!
In-Reply-To: <49B6F8F4.2050200@burnit.co.uk>
References: <51DA2B2942AF4D78B63C0F5380DF420E@jhsilent>
	<CC06B4E7-74C6-408C-97E0-20E62DD4F020@tellun.com>
	<49B6F8F4.2050200@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <196E45F8-380A-4D13-80FF-8DD7F19D1D2A@tellun.com>

I wasn't implying that there is anything wrong with cricklewood or  
vintage planet. Those were the only two places I could find, I was  
just wondering if there were any others. Thanks for the link, I should  
have used http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy to search. I forgot about that  
until moments ago.

On 10-Mar-09, at 5:34 PM, Seb Francis wrote:

> http://www.dalbani.co.uk/search.php?by=name&type=exact&q=TDA1022
>
> What's wrong with cricklewood anyway?
>
> Seb
>
>
> Scott Juskiw wrote:
>> Is anybody on this list selling TDA1022 chips?
>>
>> Anyone know of a source besides cricklewood (UK) and vintage planet  
>> (NL) for TDA1022s?
>>
>>


From jason at redfish.net  Wed Mar 11 00:56:18 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:56:18 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [motm] Triple Chorus ("Solina") PCBs re-run: It's
	official!
In-Reply-To: <49B6F8F4.2050200@burnit.co.uk>
References: <51DA2B2942AF4D78B63C0F5380DF420E@jhsilent>
	<CC06B4E7-74C6-408C-97E0-20E62DD4F020@tellun.com>
	<49B6F8F4.2050200@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a06200714c5dcae7f89eb@[10.0.1.2]>

senso @vintageplanet is always friendly and quick, too!



>http://www.dalbani.co.uk/search.php?by=name&type=exact&q=TDA1022
>
>What's wrong with cricklewood anyway?
>
>Seb



From james at ticalun.net  Wed Mar 11 03:33:48 2009
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:33:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [motm] Triple Chorus ("Solina") PCBs re-run:
	It's	official!
In-Reply-To: <49B6F8F4.2050200@burnit.co.uk>
References: <51DA2B2942AF4D78B63C0F5380DF420E@jhsilent>	<CC06B4E7-74C6-408C-97E0-20E62DD4F020@tellun.com>
	<49B6F8F4.2050200@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <006f01c9a1f1$cfc3b670$6f4b2350$@net>

Well, I bought my chips from them and while they are supposedly new, I swear
they are pulls.  The legs look to have scrapes from having been in a socket
and the legs themselves are decidedly bent and out of line.

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Seb Francis
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:34 PM
To: Scott Juskiw
Cc: Synth-DIY DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Re: [motm] Triple Chorus ("Solina") PCBs re-run: It's
official!

http://www.dalbani.co.uk/search.php?by=name&type=exact&q=TDA1022

What's wrong with cricklewood anyway?

Seb


Scott Juskiw wrote:
> Is anybody on this list selling TDA1022 chips?
>
> Anyone know of a source besides cricklewood (UK) and vintage planet 
> (NL) for TDA1022s?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Wed Mar 11 04:01:06 2009
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 03:01:06 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
Message-ID: <410513.61740.qm@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


> According to the data book I? have the clock needs to
> transition in under 5 us.? How exactly are you doing
> your debouncing?

Hmm maybe this is my problem, i did a lowpass with 27K / 1.8nF and a 1M to ground for discharge. That is 0.3mS charge and 11ms discharge... 5uS - is that enough time to debounce a mechanical switch?

Karl


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar 11 12:14:38 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:14:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Log/Lin VCAs/Transconductance amps
Message-ID: <9FE54339-9416-45C6-B199-E6BB5D3BDC74@electricdruid.net>

There are a number of VCA chips still in current production and  
available:

SSM2164 quad vca
SSM2018 single VCA
THAT2180/2181 single VCA
THAT2162 dual VCA

All of these seem to be designed primarily for audio level control,  
and have a dB/mV control response (log). This contrasts with what I  
think of as the "previous generation" of chips for VCAs:

CA3280
LM13700/13600
CA3080

All of these basic transconductance amps have a linear response.  
Obviously there were a few SSM/CEM VCA chips around too (CEM 3360  
dual VCA for example) but these are in general even more expensive  
and harder to get than the short list above.

Does anyone know of a cheap/easily available linear VCA or  
transconductance amp?

Perhaps I'll have to linearize the SSM2164 and use it as a dual  
linear VCA instead. This provides an upper limit on cost, since the  
SSM2164 is about ?4-5.

Thanks,
Tom







From louis at dompselaar.org  Wed Mar 11 12:26:35 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:26:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Log/Lin VCAs/Transconductance amps
In-Reply-To: <9FE54339-9416-45C6-B199-E6BB5D3BDC74@electricdruid.net>
References: <9FE54339-9416-45C6-B199-E6BB5D3BDC74@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <89C8BB1B-F138-4B02-87D7-BB008BFC09B7@dompselaar.org>

When did the LM13700 go out of production?  National still list the  
LM13700 DIP16 as "full production".

And it's available everywhere.  Futurlec even sell it close to the  
National bulk price.


Op 11 mrt 2009, om 12:14 heeft Tom Wiltshire het volgende geschreven:

> There are a number of VCA chips still in current production and  
> available:
>
> SSM2164 quad vca
> SSM2018 single VCA
> THAT2180/2181 single VCA
> THAT2162 dual VCA
>
> All of these seem to be designed primarily for audio level control,  
> and have a dB/mV control response (log). This contrasts with what I  
> think of as the "previous generation" of chips for VCAs:
>
> CA3280
> LM13700/13600
> CA3080
>
> All of these basic transconductance amps have a linear response.  
> Obviously there were a few SSM/CEM VCA chips around too (CEM 3360  
> dual VCA for example) but these are in general even more expensive  
> and harder to get than the short list above.
>
> Does anyone know of a cheap/easily available linear VCA or  
> transconductance amp?
>
> Perhaps I'll have to linearize the SSM2164 and use it as a dual  
> linear VCA instead. This provides an upper limit on cost, since the  
> SSM2164 is about ?4-5.




From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Wed Mar 11 12:36:22 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:36:22 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Log/Lin VCAs/Transconductance amps
In-Reply-To: <9FE54339-9416-45C6-B199-E6BB5D3BDC74@electricdruid.net>
References: <9FE54339-9416-45C6-B199-E6BB5D3BDC74@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49B7A236.5060005@makenoisemusic.com>

Tom, what is the reason that you will not use the LM13700? It is 
certainly available here in the USA.

Tony

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> There are a number of VCA chips still in current production and 
> available:
>
> SSM2164 quad vca
> SSM2018 single VCA
> THAT2180/2181 single VCA
> THAT2162 dual VCA
>
> All of these seem to be designed primarily for audio level control, 
> and have a dB/mV control response (log). This contrasts with what I 
> think of as the "previous generation" of chips for VCAs:
>
> CA3280
> LM13700/13600
> CA3080
>
> All of these basic transconductance amps have a linear response. 
> Obviously there were a few SSM/CEM VCA chips around too (CEM 3360 dual 
> VCA for example) but these are in general even more expensive and 
> harder to get than the short list above.
>
> Does anyone know of a cheap/easily available linear VCA or 
> transconductance amp?
>
> Perhaps I'll have to linearize the SSM2164 and use it as a dual linear 
> VCA instead. This provides an upper limit on cost, since the SSM2164 
> is about ?4-5.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar 11 12:47:59 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:47:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Log/Lin VCAs/Transconductance amps
In-Reply-To: <89C8BB1B-F138-4B02-87D7-BB008BFC09B7@dompselaar.org>
References: <9FE54339-9416-45C6-B199-E6BB5D3BDC74@electricdruid.net>
	<89C8BB1B-F138-4B02-87D7-BB008BFC09B7@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <836AB1A5-BF6F-4E9E-8DD6-D3F69A1F66DB@electricdruid.net>

You're quite right, Louis. Although it is "previous generation", it  
is still around, so perhaps I should have put it on my first list.
I was wanting to emphasise the distinction between modern chips,  
which are all log, and older chips, which are all linear.

T.


On 11 Mar 2009, at 11:26, Louis van Dompselaar wrote:

> When did the LM13700 go out of production?  National still list the  
> LM13700 DIP16 as "full production".
>
> And it's available everywhere.  Futurlec even sell it close to the  
> National bulk price.
>
>
> Op 11 mrt 2009, om 12:14 heeft Tom Wiltshire het volgende geschreven:
>
>> There are a number of VCA chips still in current production and  
>> available:
>>
>> SSM2164 quad vca
>> SSM2018 single VCA
>> THAT2180/2181 single VCA
>> THAT2162 dual VCA
>>
>> All of these seem to be designed primarily for audio level  
>> control, and have a dB/mV control response (log). This contrasts  
>> with what I think of as the "previous generation" of chips for VCAs:
>>
>> CA3280
>> LM13700/13600
>> CA3080
>>
>> All of these basic transconductance amps have a linear response.  
>> Obviously there were a few SSM/CEM VCA chips around too (CEM 3360  
>> dual VCA for example) but these are in general even more expensive  
>> and harder to get than the short list above.
>>
>> Does anyone know of a cheap/easily available linear VCA or  
>> transconductance amp?
>>
>> Perhaps I'll have to linearize the SSM2164 and use it as a dual  
>> linear VCA instead. This provides an upper limit on cost, since  
>> the SSM2164 is about ?4-5.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>





From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed Mar 11 13:17:37 2009
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:17:37 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness.. debouncing time
Message-ID: <32272.1236773857@oricom.ca>


>5us - is that enough time to debounce a mechanical switch?

Karl, after several years of trial & tests I can tell
you the best debounce time I found and still use
is around 20msec.
5usec is way too short..
My 2 cents.
JP 


 On Wed 11/03/09 00:01 , Karl Ekdahl elektrodwarf at yahoo.se sent:
> 
> > According to the data book I? have the
> clock needs to> transition in under 5 us.? How exactly are
> you doing> your debouncing?
> 
> Hmm maybe this is my problem, i did a lowpass with 27K / 1.8nF and a 1M to
> ground for discharge. That is 0.3mS charge and 11ms discharge... 5uS - is
> that enough time to debounce a mechanical switch?
> Karl
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________
> Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
> J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96
> 914052
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nlhttp://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar 11 13:44:28 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:44:28 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Log/Lin VCAs/Transconductance amps
In-Reply-To: <49B7A236.5060005@makenoisemusic.com>
References: <9FE54339-9416-45C6-B199-E6BB5D3BDC74@electricdruid.net>
	<49B7A236.5060005@makenoisemusic.com>
Message-ID: <2C098DC0-CCCA-472C-BB0F-42182E1064CE@electricdruid.net>


On 11 Mar 2009, at 11:36, Tony Rolando wrote:

> Tom, what is the reason that you will not use the LM13700? It is  
> certainly available here in the USA.
>
> Tony

I didn't say that I wouldn't. I simply wasn't aware that it is as  
available as it still seems to be. I've got a few in my parts drawer,  
but I bought those *years* ago, and had assumed I'd struggle to find  
more. But it's in production, and costs less than a ?1, which is  
about the cheapest per-VCA cost of any of those chips, I think. So  
for linear VCAs, it certainly seems to be the best choice.

Thanks all,
Tom





From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar 11 13:46:26 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:46:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness.. debouncing time
In-Reply-To: <32272.1236773857@oricom.ca>
References: <32272.1236773857@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <D1F6387E-7A05-4D69-B55D-CF84563DF016@electricdruid.net>


On 11 Mar 2009, at 12:17, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

>
>> 5us - is that enough time to debounce a mechanical switch?
>
> Karl, after several years of trial & tests I can tell
> you the best debounce time I found and still use
> is around 20msec.
> 5usec is way too short..
> My 2 cents.
> JP

I agree with JP. Switches vary and some are "bouncier" than others,  
but you definitely want debounce times in multiple mS not uS.

T.





From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 11 14:00:33 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 06:00:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
In-Reply-To: <410513.61740.qm@web26202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <517918.86161.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


I had an issue like this with rotary encoders. The edges of the "square" waves were too slow, causing the downstream logic to act very funny. The solution was to put in 74HC14 schmitt trigger inverters. Cleaned the edges right up, and the problem went away. CMOS is very picky about edges.

--TimR


--- On Tue, 3/10/09, Karl Ekdahl <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se> wrote:

> From: Karl Ekdahl <elektrodwarf at yahoo.se>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] 4027 flip-flop weirdness
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 8:01 PM
> > According to the data book I? have the clock needs to
> > transition in under 5 us.? How exactly are you doing
> > your debouncing?
> 
> Hmm maybe this is my problem, i did a lowpass with 27K /
> 1.8nF and a 1M to ground for discharge. That is 0.3mS charge
> and 11ms discharge... 5uS - is that enough time to debounce
> a mechanical switch?
> 
> Karl
> 
> 
>      
> __________________________________________________________
> Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
> J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 19:01:29 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:01:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] best method for clocking modular to DAW?
In-Reply-To: <49B03D85.1060708@googlemail.com>
References: <a06200764c5d471514c4b@10.0.1.4>
	<4AAF27D3-F1D6-488E-BF09-E70DECD1A032@dompselaar.org>
	<20090305093634.80B5F2C0069B@bmail01.one.com>
	<cf1e1cb10903050246m5b9d46b3o2c6cf730d0ae8146@mail.gmail.com>
	<49B03D85.1060708@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903111101m44cf76d4naecbf9562fd8a658@mail.gmail.com>

BTW,
using something like Ms Pinky you will be able to send out midi time
code synchronized to vinlyl. Then that goes to a gate or sequencer or
sync pulse or whatever... This means that you can use a modular synced
to your DJ set... or something.. 8) No idea how reliable that would
be, though :( You would probably have more luck with a special
approach which translates the time code vinyl into the clock stuff
directly.

HTH
D.

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 9:00 PM, floppy <floppyscratcher at googlemail.com> wrote:
> there will be a dedicated device for this soon :
> http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/index.asp?action=page&name=16
> david from innerclock systems spent a lot of time in researching this field.
>
>
>
>
>
> cheater cheater schrieb:
>>
>> I suggest doing things the other way around: sync the pc to the modular!
>> Record the gates from your modular, they will show up in your host.
>> You can warp the tempo to the gates. This will give you a nice fluid
>> rhythm.
>>
>>
>
>


From alfred.pear at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 03:34:51 2009
From: alfred.pear at gmail.com (alfred.pear at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:34:51 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
Message-ID: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone built this?
http://www.evenfall.com/diy/balmod.pdf

I'm not hearing strong sidebands that one might expect from a ring
modulator...it seems more like a VCA..

Any reports?

-A


From music.maker at gte.net  Thu Mar 12 03:51:06 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:51:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
Message-ID: <200903120251.n2C2p6Rv018513@linux7.lan>

alfred.pear at gmail.com wrote:
>Has anyone built this?
>http://www.evenfall.com/diy/balmod.pdf
>
>I'm not hearing strong sidebands that one might expect from a ring
>modulator...it seems more like a VCA..
>
>Any reports?
>

What sorts of inputs have you tried?  

To experience sidebands, you need to input audio rate signals into both inputs.
 If one input is a slow slewing waveform, like an LFO or an envelope, then the
circuit will perform very similarly to a VCA.


-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 12 08:56:27 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:56:27 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Question about LFOs
In-Reply-To: <200903120251.n2C2p6Rv018513@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <0KGD00F6HVE3YJ@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Here's a noob-ish question about LFOs.  First, some background:

I'm developing a module with four non-voltage-controlled LFOs with variable
pulse-width saw-triangle-ramp and pulse outputs.  I've simulated both the
Korg MS-20 modulation generator (with its two JFETs driving the integrator)
and Ray Wilson's Multi-waveform LFO, sans sine-shaper (with its two diodes
driving the integrator), each with a few minor modifications.  The Korg
circuit generates (roughly) a 0 to 5V pulse and a -2.5 to +2.5 V triangle.
The MFOS circuit generates (roughly) -5 to +5 V pulse and triangle.

My question is this:  Is there some "standard" for LFO voltage output, and
if so, what is it?  Also, would it be desirable to be able to switch between
-5 to +5 V and 0 to +/-5 V outputs?

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Thu Mar 12 09:10:26 2009
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:10:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Question about LFOs
In-Reply-To: <0KGD00F6HVE3YJ@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KGD00F6HVE3YJ@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49B8C372.7090801@rubidium.dyndns.org>

David,

David G. Dixon skrev:
> Here's a noob-ish question about LFOs.  First, some background:
> 
> I'm developing a module with four non-voltage-controlled LFOs with variable
> pulse-width saw-triangle-ramp and pulse outputs.  I've simulated both the
> Korg MS-20 modulation generator (with its two JFETs driving the integrator)
> and Ray Wilson's Multi-waveform LFO, sans sine-shaper (with its two diodes
> driving the integrator), each with a few minor modifications.  The Korg
> circuit generates (roughly) a 0 to 5V pulse and a -2.5 to +2.5 V triangle.
> The MFOS circuit generates (roughly) -5 to +5 V pulse and triangle.
> 
> My question is this:  Is there some "standard" for LFO voltage output, and
> if so, what is it?  Also, would it be desirable to be able to switch between
> -5 to +5 V and 0 to +/-5 V outputs?

I am tempted to say that the answer to this is the same as to the power 
rating of an engine in a Roys Rolls car... sufficient.

I would go for a range of -5 V to +5 V at all times. You rarely need 
more and you can easilly dampen it down with a pot to less.

The pulse going from 0 to 5V seems reasnoble, as it fits the trigger for 
S/H, ADSR, sequencers and similar...

The saw/triangle/ramp shape is soooo usefull. I use it alot.

Cheers,
Magnus


From peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 09:59:18 2009
From: peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk (Pete Swarbrick)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:59:18 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Question about LFOs
In-Reply-To: <0KGD00F6HVE3YJ@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <200903120251.n2C2p6Rv018513@linux7.lan>
	<0KGD00F6HVE3YJ@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096469@eumail.eu.panavision.com>

David

I have a total of six MS-20 style LFOs in two triple modules. After some
time using them I beefed-up the variable ramp output from +/- 2.5V to
+/- 5V on all LFOs in one module just to see how often it would be
useful and ended up doing the other one too. Love the circuit, it's
simple, repeatable and flexible plus I use the variable ramp pretty much
ALL the time and would be lost without it. 

Just some thoughts

Pete


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of David G. Dixon
Sent: 12 March 2009 07:56
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Question about LFOs

Here's a noob-ish question about LFOs.  First, some background:

I'm developing a module with four non-voltage-controlled LFOs with
variable
pulse-width saw-triangle-ramp and pulse outputs.  I've simulated both
the
Korg MS-20 modulation generator (with its two JFETs driving the
integrator)
and Ray Wilson's Multi-waveform LFO, sans sine-shaper (with its two
diodes
driving the integrator), each with a few minor modifications.  The Korg
circuit generates (roughly) a 0 to 5V pulse and a -2.5 to +2.5 V
triangle.
The MFOS circuit generates (roughly) -5 to +5 V pulse and triangle.

My question is this:  Is there some "standard" for LFO voltage output,
and
if so, what is it?  Also, would it be desirable to be able to switch
between
-5 to +5 V and 0 to +/-5 V outputs?

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If
you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering
it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

checked by CanIt4



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 12:19:48 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:19:48 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903120419o680bcfebm66ef1ea142387fdf@mail.gmail.com>

That's because balanced has less SNR.

Cheers
Unbalanced D

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:34 AM,  <alfred.pear at gmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone built this?
> http://www.evenfall.com/diy/balmod.pdf
>
> I'm not hearing strong sidebands that one might expect from a ring
> modulator...it seems more like a VCA..
>
> Any reports?
>
> -A
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Thu Mar 12 14:42:02 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:42:02 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090312074008.020d4bf0@mail.comcast.net>

BTW, does anyone know what Chris is up to these days?  He did some 
interesting DIY designs a few years ago.  I even heard some of his 
recordings on late-night radio at one point.

Ian



From jmahoney at gate.net  Thu Mar 12 16:23:37 2009
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:23:37 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903120419o680bcfebm66ef1ea142387fdf@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10903120419o680bcfebm66ef1ea142387fdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200903121632.n2CGW0gk028580@dropmix.xs4all.nl>


> > I'm not hearing strong sidebands that one might expect from a ring
> > modulator...it seems more like a VCA..

At 07:19 AM 3/12/2009, cheater cheater wrote:
>That's because balanced has less SNR.

Really? I'd have thought it was the other way around, since most 
everyone builds balanced modulators, nowadays. Or, do we build 
BalMods simply because we don't want to deal with transformers?

I wouldn't expect the SNR to make much difference in the sidebands 
that are produced, either.

Also, I am of the impression that real ring mods produce more 
distortion, resulting in more pronounced (if less pure) affects -- 
and, consequently, reducing their signal-to-noise ratios.

Always ready to be corrected,
John



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 12 17:06:11 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:06:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <200903121632.n2CGW0gk028580@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <0KGE00D23I2BIU@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

> Also, I am of the impression that real ring mods produce more
> distortion, resulting in more pronounced (if less pure) affects --
> and, consequently, reducing their signal-to-noise ratios.

Speaking on behalf of the noobs, could someone please explain the difference
between a "real ring mod" and, say, a four-quadrant multiplier?  I was under
the impression that they were basically the same thing (although some of the
"ring mod" circuits I've seen on the web made pretty crappy four-quadrant
multipliers!).  I was also under the impression that the difference between
four- and two-quadrant multiplication was basically the difference between a
ring mod and simple AM.

This is especially pertinent to me at the moment, as I've developed a simple
circuit for true two- and four-quadrant multiplication based on an LM13700,
a TL074, and two pots, and I'm calling it a ring mod (perhaps erroneously?)



From jmahoney at gate.net  Thu Mar 12 17:11:59 2009
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:11:59 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <0KGE00D23I2BIU@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <200903121632.n2CGW0gk028580@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<0KGE00D23I2BIU@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <200903121720.n2CHKMUs029172@dropmix.xs4all.nl>

At 12:06 PM 3/12/2009, David G. Dixon wrote:
>Speaking on behalf of the noobs, could someone please explain the difference
>between a "real ring mod" and, say, a four-quadrant multiplier? [snip]

Take it away, Ken Stone!
http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsrr.html

John 



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 17:42:49 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:42:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] BAD Trader: Peter Grenader
In-Reply-To: <24409950.1236873588224.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <24409950.1236873588224.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903120942x413ffdcbr27f0cd5ae2bb8844@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Dennis Verschoor <modular at gmail.com> wrote:
> It really surprises me that when Peter gets what he asks for someone comes
> up for him.

Dennis, not defending Peter. But if we want to do this tar and
feather, let's do it in a way that leaves no way out for the bad guy.

>> then next time someone might stop liking, say,
>> Rozzbox (who I'd just had an interesting conversation over email with)
>> or MOTM or Wiard, and will start posting bullshit here and everyone
>> will believe that.
>
> you're not defending him, but you imply that we are posting "bullshit"?

No friend, I said 'someone' specifically to disconnect this from
anyone here. Please don't read into this.

>
> How does posting a receipt, showing that you bought something, for instance,
> show on any level that the actual claims are true - that Peter HASN'T done
> something?

It shows that you're relevant to the situation and actually have a
voice in the conversation.
I've seen too many threads on too many mailing lists where people
started teaming up and mobbing. Then various unbased claims were made
('that guy is an X') and then the focus of the situation, which right
now seems to be to prove that Plan B has bad business practices. So
let's just close the band train doors for the casual flamers before
they show up.

>
> The argument - that we should provide proof of something that someone else
> has failed to do, because someone else at some point might post dishonestly,
> is just ridiculous.
>

Or, it is just treating everyone equally and expecting good
performance when you're making a very big claim that can really mess
up someone's life. I think in this case Peter G is to blame; the
important point is that skipping this rational check can become a
habit, and a habit that allows casting people out easier is not good.

>
>
>> So I think it's better by principle to show some
>> sort of proof that establishes you can actually speak out about the
>> issue at hand.
>
> Sorry - but, in my case, for instance, I don't feel like I need to try to
> find the person who sold it to me (who is also a long time member, but
> hasn't been around here much of late) and get him to verify that he handed
> it to me. I believe that most people here trust that I'm not making up the
> entire story.
>

Cool, and so do I. But out of courtesy, could we have a little bit of
proof? Just any minimal amount?

> I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this here - where someone
> is essentially calling a bunch of long time members liars.

I've never done this. I'm just trying to clench the community's fist
before it punches Plan B, because posting stories without any proof is
only a halfway effort. If someone comes with this thread to Plan B and
asks him about it, he can go and say 'those people are crazy, i mean
who posts on the internet anyways? they haven't shown any proof this
has happened anyways. they're just making it up' - let's stop this
situation before it happens.
As you've seen Plan B uses mind tricks to manipulate the situation his
way. With such proof out in the open and public, he won't be able to
do that in this case.

Ross:
> In so much as the internet can be a big time waster, I do not
> believe that the people are BSing in this thread just to hear themselves
> talk, nor do I think this is some sort of conspiracy against this guy.

Neither do I. But let's not leave the guy with any chance to dismiss
the points made here.

Vincent:

> Basic math suggests that someone who had email when he was eleven...would be how old??
Between 12 and 53 years old?

Mark,
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Mark Pulver <mark at midiwall.com> wrote:
>
> Okay KIDS - this PeterG thing has gone on for REAL long time, and the AH
> rules are very clear about bad trader/seller posts.

Sorry, I did not realize that going into this sort of conversation is
governed by an AH rule. I'll make note of this, thank you for
correcting me.

> Mr. CheaterD... please refer to the archives, and also refer to the
> character of those people that you're _accusing_ of stringing someone up
> without "proof". If you need any "proof" about these claims, go back through
> said archives where you'll see at PeterG coming out online to defend himself
> the last time this happened.

I'm not saying anyone is stringing up PlanB. I think he's got what is
coming for him. I'm just asking for more solid proof so he can dangle
quicker. Let's not lie to ourselves, there's no chance of retribution.

I think Peter Forrest's post expresses what I think exactly, I agree
with all points in his post.

As far as PlanB goes, I have a small commentary that I will not follow
up on in this thread:
The analog synth crowd is a very small market. People don't know what
they should expect; quite often the customers will show very good will
by letting some things slip just in order to support the company which
is striving to survive. Peter from Plan B abuses this and uses mind
tricks, coertion and abuse in order to arrive at his ends. What I
think might be happening, and that would explain the long shipping
times and his always asking to send back the items, is that he's got
multiple people he's sending the same item. Say person A buys an item,
then returns it for fixing in march 2009. Peter can sell it to person
B, who will return it by May 2009. Person A and B will be promised two
working items in return while only one, broken, item exists. This is
an illegal business practice called short-selling, and is well known
by many people. As for the bullshit explanations from Peter that he
'can't go 3 blocks', well... I think that's not outrageous anymore,
it's past that point. At this instance the person talking to him
should immediately see him for what he is, a dismissive cynic who
wants to get his money, his gear, and then he tells the person
affected to buzz off; in the world of business if you don't have the
money and don't have the merchandise you've basically got a lost case
on your hands. Especially since Peter G knows in the end the user
won't bother following up on this with legal action.

The manufacture, fix and response times obviously show Peter is not
interested in doing any business. Any serious business gives you
updates on your order/project at least every month, and hopefully
every week. My business is currently doing a service worth 5 000 euro
for free for a company (because it helps us as well), but the people
still expect us to report every week, and they are right to do so, and
we do report every week. Simply because it would not be professional
of us not to keep constant communication.

Supposedly PlanB has shipped some good hardware here and there as
well, in big amounts actually. This performance, and the shouting, and
not-picking-up, would only suggest that we're dealing with a bipolar
person. People who take their emotions into business shouldn't be
doing business.

Thanks
D.


On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:59 PM, BrightBoy <jdec at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Here are the rules that a mail-order company operating
> in the United States must follow when taking orders:
>
> http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus02.shtm
>
> If Plan B/EAR isn't following these rules, file a complaint
> with the Federal Trade Commission.
>
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Pulver <mark at midiwall.com>
>>Sent: Mar 12, 2009 11:50 AM
>>To: AH <analogue at hyperreal.org>
>>Subject: Re: [AH] BAD Trader: Peter Grenader
>>
>>
>>No shit.
>>
>>Okay KIDS - this PeterG thing has gone on for REAL long time, and the AH
>>rules are very clear about bad trader/seller posts.
>>
>>There's a history of issues with PeterG, the archives will show it.
>>
>>Mr. CheaterD... please refer to the archives, and also refer to the
>>character of those people that you're _accusing_ of stringing someone up
>>without "proof". If you need any "proof" about these claims, go back
>>through said archives where you'll see at PeterG coming out online to
>>defend himself the last time this happened.
>>
>>KenE had a point in this, public outcry is a good way to flesh someone
>>out... Peter doesn't seem to want to say much this time around.
>>
>>
>>Also, your suggestion about posting other communication is MOST CERTAINLY
>>NOT OKAY to do here. AH is not here to create a battle zone for
>>trader/tradee situations like this. Plus, it's not exactly legal to post
>>private communication in a public forum.
>>
>>
>>
>>Mark - really really trying to deputy this mess.
>>-----
>>Ancient Eyeball Recipe (06:28 AM 3/12/2009) wrote:
>> >
>> >you're not defending him, but you imply that we are posting "bullshit"?
>> >
>>
>>-----
>>steve at polyfather.com (05:17 AM 3/12/2009) wrote:
>> >Hi 'D'
>> >
>> >Well you are a pretty anonymous character yourself, you go first.
>>
>>
>>====================
>>cheater cheater (03:02 AM 3/12/2009) wrote:
>> >> Hi guys,
>> >> I'm really sorry to hear about your problems and don't wish to make
>> >> your claims seem insignificant or untrue, but they're some pretty big
>> >> claims; for this thread to be just, can you supply some proof that you
>> >> are actual Plan B customers? There is a lot of internet drama out
>> >> there and a small manufacturer can be brought down with forged emails
>> >> like this - so can we have perhaps something like photos of you with
>> >> the units, photos receipts, stuff like that? This would add you guys
>> >> credibility in the eyes of an onlooker like me.
>> >>
>> >> On another note, if you have any emails from Plan B that you'd like to
>> >> post, remember that it's OK to do so. Communication from a company is
>> >> pretty much public and you can use it in court openly and can even
>> >> post it to a print newspaper as far as anything is concerned...
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >> D
>>
>
>
>
>


From gil_we at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 12 17:45:54 2009
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:45:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for MIDI expansion for Oberheim DMX
Message-ID: <448043.2594.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


If anyone have one used for sale, please let me know ;)


      


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 12 18:51:44 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:51:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Question about LFOs
In-Reply-To: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096469@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
Message-ID: <0KGE00BYGMY941@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

> I have a total of six MS-20 style LFOs in two triple modules. After some
> time using them I beefed-up the variable ramp output from +/- 2.5V to
> +/- 5V on all LFOs in one module just to see how often it would be
> useful and ended up doing the other one too. Love the circuit, it's
> simple, repeatable and flexible plus I use the variable ramp pretty much
> ALL the time and would be lost without it.

Thanks for the excellent response (you too, Magnus)!  Now, I'm wondering: Is
there some reason why you've chosen JFETs over diodes for the wave-shaping
integrator?  Both circuits behave equally well in simulation.  Is there some
problem lurking in the latter which my little noobie brain hasn't thought
of?



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 18:59:07 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:59:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <200903121720.n2CHKMUs029172@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
References: <200903121632.n2CGW0gk028580@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
	<0KGE00D23I2BIU@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<200903121720.n2CHKMUs029172@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903121059x780cc0adp10d0ee26dfaf4a99@mail.gmail.com>

>> That's because balanced has less SNR.
>
> Really? I'd have thought it was the other way around, since most everyone
> builds balanced modulators, nowadays. Or, do we build BalMods simply because
> we don't want to deal with transformers?

>'Balanced' as in XLR. ;-P

As for balanced modulator / ring modulator:
ring modulators are identified by the diode ring. no matter what they
do - they don't have to multiply too well..
multipliers on the other hand have to multiply.
Those are close terms that, if you close your eyes slightly, you won't
be able to tell apart, but they're defined differently. The detail is
big enough to give you audible differences between strict applications
of each technique.

Cheers
D.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:11 PM, John Mahoney <jmahoney at gate.net> wrote:
> At 12:06 PM 3/12/2009, David G. Dixon wrote:
>>
>> Speaking on behalf of the noobs, could someone please explain the
>> difference
>> between a "real ring mod" and, say, a four-quadrant multiplier? [snip]
>
> Take it away, Ken Stone!
> http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsrr.html
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From Alan.Needham at centrica.com  Thu Mar 12 19:33:46 2009
From: Alan.Needham at centrica.com (Needham, Alan)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:33:46 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D8010E1229@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>

Could I make so bold as to compare this to the ETI 4600 synth VCA/RM
module, they are similar (but not quite identical).
            http://www.eti4600synthesiser.org.uk

The 4 quad modulator is AC coupled on both inputs, by DC coupling one
input (the CV in) it becomes a 2 quad modulator or VCA (could that be a
clue to your seeing a VCA-like behaviour?)

As for Ken Stone's article (http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsrr.html)
I had forgotten the old name of "twisted ring modulator" until I saw his
diagrams!

	Alan


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of
alfred.pear at gmail.com
Sent: 12 March 2009 02:35
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"

Has anyone built this?
http://www.evenfall.com/diy/balmod.pdf

I'm not hearing strong sidebands that one might expect from a ring
modulator...it seems more like a VCA..

Any reports?

-A
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Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
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From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 12 20:57:38 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:57:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0KGE009ZUSS2CD@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Has anyone used this LM1496 as a VCA, instead of OTAs, etc?  It almost looks
like a dual OTA, but with two inputs for adjusting the gain.  Could be
interesting.  One could make any VCA an optional multiplier.



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Thu Mar 12 21:11:48 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:11:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <0KGE009ZUSS2CD@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KGE009ZUSS2CD@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49B96C84.1000809@makenoisemusic.com>

There was discussion of such a thing about 2 months, if I am remembering 
correctly.

Tony

David G. Dixon wrote:
> Has anyone used this LM1496 as a VCA, instead of OTAs, etc?  It almost looks
> like a dual OTA, but with two inputs for adjusting the gain.  Could be
> interesting.  One could make any VCA an optional multiplier.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 12 21:29:14 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:29:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <49B96C84.1000809@makenoisemusic.com>
Message-ID: <0KGE00254U8Q4S@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Right you are, Tony!  The thread was between 13 and 19 June 2008.  I am led
to understand that the 1496 makes for a fairly crappy VCA.  Ian Fritz
explains why (as usual).

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Rolando [mailto:tony at makenoisemusic.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:12 PM
> To: David G. Dixon
> Cc: alfred.pear at gmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
> 
> There was discussion of such a thing about 2 months, if I am remembering
> correctly.
> 
> Tony
> 
> David G. Dixon wrote:
> > Has anyone used this LM1496 as a VCA, instead of OTAs, etc?  It almost
> looks
> > like a dual OTA, but with two inputs for adjusting the gain.  Could be
> > interesting.  One could make any VCA an optional multiplier.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Thu Mar 12 21:51:06 2009
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:51:06 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] BAD Trader: Peter Grenader
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903120942x413ffdcbr27f0cd5ae2bb8844@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24409950.1236873588224.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<cf1e1cb10903120942x413ffdcbr27f0cd5ae2bb8844@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090312204911.M78676@wowway.com>

AH overflow ???

Ah... how I miss the (flame) wars....

Sounds like everyone needs a "Steaming Mug of STFU" as
we used to say on AH...   :^P

<lol>

burn 'em if you got 'em...

H^) harry




On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:42:49 +0000, cheater cheater wrote
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Dennis Verschoor 
> <modular at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It really surprises me that when Peter gets what he asks for someone comes
> > up for him.
> 
> Dennis, not defending Peter. But if we want to do this tar and
> feather, let's do it in a way that leaves no way out for the bad guy.
> 
> >> then next time someone might stop liking, say,
> >> Rozzbox (who I'd just had an interesting conversation over email with)
> >> or MOTM or Wiard, and will start posting bullshit here and everyone
> >> will believe that.
> >
> > you're not defending him, but you imply that we are posting "bullshit"?
> 
> No friend, I said 'someone' specifically to disconnect this from
> anyone here. Please don't read into this.
> 
> >
> > How does posting a receipt, showing that you bought something, for instance,
> > show on any level that the actual claims are true - that Peter HASN'T done
> > something?
> 
> It shows that you're relevant to the situation and actually have a
> voice in the conversation.
> I've seen too many threads on too many mailing lists where people
> started teaming up and mobbing. Then various unbased claims were made
> ('that guy is an X') and then the focus of the situation, which right
> now seems to be to prove that Plan B has bad business practices. So
> let's just close the band train doors for the casual flamers before
> they show up.
> 
> >
> > The argument - that we should provide proof of something that someone else
> > has failed to do, because someone else at some point might post dishonestly,
> > is just ridiculous.
> >
> 
> Or, it is just treating everyone equally and expecting good
> performance when you're making a very big claim that can really mess
> up someone's life. I think in this case Peter G is to blame; the
> important point is that skipping this rational check can become a
> habit, and a habit that allows casting people out easier is not good.
> 
> >
> >
> >> So I think it's better by principle to show some
> >> sort of proof that establishes you can actually speak out about the
> >> issue at hand.
> >
> > Sorry - but, in my case, for instance, I don't feel like I need to try to
> > find the person who sold it to me (who is also a long time member, but
> > hasn't been around here much of late) and get him to verify that he handed
> > it to me. I believe that most people here trust that I'm not making up the
> > entire story.
> >
> 
> Cool, and so do I. But out of courtesy, could we have a little bit of
> proof? Just any minimal amount?
> 
> > I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this here - where someone
> > is essentially calling a bunch of long time members liars.
> 
> I've never done this. I'm just trying to clench the community's fist
> before it punches Plan B, because posting stories without any proof 
> is only a halfway effort. If someone comes with this thread to Plan 
> B and asks him about it, he can go and say 'those people are crazy,
>  i mean who posts on the internet anyways? they haven't shown any 
> proof this has happened anyways. they're just making it up' - let's 
> stop this situation before it happens. As you've seen Plan B uses 
> mind tricks to manipulate the situation his way. With such proof out 
> in the open and public, he won't be able to do that in this case.
> 
> Ross:
> > In so much as the internet can be a big time waster, I do not
> > believe that the people are BSing in this thread just to hear themselves
> > talk, nor do I think this is some sort of conspiracy against this guy.
> 
> Neither do I. But let's not leave the guy with any chance to dismiss
> the points made here.
> 
> Vincent:
> 
> > Basic math suggests that someone who had email when he was eleven...would
be how old??
> Between 12 and 53 years old?
> 
> Mark,
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Mark Pulver <mark at midiwall.com> wrote:
> >
> > Okay KIDS - this PeterG thing has gone on for REAL long time, and the AH
> > rules are very clear about bad trader/seller posts.
> 
> Sorry, I did not realize that going into this sort of conversation is
> governed by an AH rule. I'll make note of this, thank you for
> correcting me.
> 
> > Mr. CheaterD... please refer to the archives, and also refer to the
> > character of those people that you're _accusing_ of stringing someone up
> > without "proof". If you need any "proof" about these claims, go back through
> > said archives where you'll see at PeterG coming out online to defend himself
> > the last time this happened.
> 
> I'm not saying anyone is stringing up PlanB. I think he's got what is
> coming for him. I'm just asking for more solid proof so he can dangle
> quicker. Let's not lie to ourselves, there's no chance of retribution.
> 
> I think Peter Forrest's post expresses what I think exactly, I agree
> with all points in his post.
> 
> As far as PlanB goes, I have a small commentary that I will not 
> follow up on in this thread: The analog synth crowd is a very small 
> market. People don't know what they should expect; quite often the 
> customers will show very good will by letting some things slip just 
> in order to support the company which is striving to survive. Peter 
> from Plan B abuses this and uses mind tricks, coertion and abuse in 
> order to arrive at his ends. What I think might be happening, and 
> that would explain the long shipping times and his always asking to 
> send back the items, is that he's got multiple people he's sending 
> the same item. Say person A buys an item, then returns it for fixing 
> in march 2009. Peter can sell it to person B, who will return it by 
> May 2009. Person A and B will be promised two working items in 
> return while only one, broken, item exists. This is an illegal 
> business practice called short-selling, and is well known by many 
> people. As for the bullshit explanations from Peter that he 'can't 
> go 3 blocks', well... I think that's not outrageous anymore, it's 
> past that point. At this instance the person talking to him should 
> immediately see him for what he is, a dismissive cynic who wants to 
> get his money, his gear, and then he tells the person affected to 
> buzz off; in the world of business if you don't have the money and 
> don't have the merchandise you've basically got a lost case on your 
> hands. Especially since Peter G knows in the end the user won't 
> bother following up on this with legal action.
> 
> The manufacture, fix and response times obviously show Peter is not
> interested in doing any business. Any serious business gives you
> updates on your order/project at least every month, and hopefully
> every week. My business is currently doing a service worth 5 000 euro
> for free for a company (because it helps us as well), but the people
> still expect us to report every week, and they are right to do so, 
> and we do report every week. Simply because it would not be professional
> of us not to keep constant communication.
> 
> Supposedly PlanB has shipped some good hardware here and there as
> well, in big amounts actually. This performance, and the shouting, 
> and not-picking-up, would only suggest that we're dealing with a bipolar
> person. People who take their emotions into business shouldn't be
> doing business.
> 
> Thanks
> D.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:59 PM, BrightBoy <jdec at mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Here are the rules that a mail-order company operating
> > in the United States must follow when taking orders:
> >
> > http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus02.shtm
> >
> > If Plan B/EAR isn't following these rules, file a complaint
> > with the Federal Trade Commission.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >>From: Mark Pulver <mark at midiwall.com>
> >>Sent: Mar 12, 2009 11:50 AM
> >>To: AH <analogue at hyperreal.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [AH] BAD Trader: Peter Grenader
> >>
> >>
> >>No shit.
> >>
> >>Okay KIDS - this PeterG thing has gone on for REAL long time, and the AH
> >>rules are very clear about bad trader/seller posts.
> >>
> >>There's a history of issues with PeterG, the archives will show it.
> >>
> >>Mr. CheaterD... please refer to the archives, and also refer to the
> >>character of those people that you're _accusing_ of stringing someone up
> >>without "proof". If you need any "proof" about these claims, go back
> >>through said archives where you'll see at PeterG coming out online to
> >>defend himself the last time this happened.
> >>
> >>KenE had a point in this, public outcry is a good way to flesh someone
> >>out... Peter doesn't seem to want to say much this time around.
> >>
> >>
> >>Also, your suggestion about posting other communication is MOST CERTAINLY
> >>NOT OKAY to do here. AH is not here to create a battle zone for
> >>trader/tradee situations like this. Plus, it's not exactly legal to post
> >>private communication in a public forum.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Mark - really really trying to deputy this mess.
> >>-----
> >>Ancient Eyeball Recipe (06:28 AM 3/12/2009) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >you're not defending him, but you imply that we are posting "bullshit"?
> >> >
> >>
> >>-----
> >>steve at polyfather.com (05:17 AM 3/12/2009) wrote:
> >> >Hi 'D'
> >> >
> >> >Well you are a pretty anonymous character yourself, you go first.
> >>
> >>
> >>====================
> >>cheater cheater (03:02 AM 3/12/2009) wrote:
> >> >> Hi guys,
> >> >> I'm really sorry to hear about your problems and don't wish to make
> >> >> your claims seem insignificant or untrue, but they're some pretty big
> >> >> claims; for this thread to be just, can you supply some proof that you
> >> >> are actual Plan B customers? There is a lot of internet drama out
> >> >> there and a small manufacturer can be brought down with forged emails
> >> >> like this - so can we have perhaps something like photos of you with
> >> >> the units, photos receipts, stuff like that? This would add you guys
> >> >> credibility in the eyes of an onlooker like me.
> >> >>
> >> >> On another note, if you have any emails from Plan B that you'd like to
> >> >> post, remember that it's OK to do so. Communication from a company is
> >> >> pretty much public and you can use it in court openly and can even
> >> >> post it to a print newspaper as far as anything is concerned...
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >> D
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Fri Mar 13 01:23:03 2009
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:23:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Question about LFOs
In-Reply-To: <0KGE00BYGMY941@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KGE00BYGMY941@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49B9A767.2080608@rubidium.dyndns.org>

David G. Dixon skrev:
>> I have a total of six MS-20 style LFOs in two triple modules. After some
>> time using them I beefed-up the variable ramp output from +/- 2.5V to
>> +/- 5V on all LFOs in one module just to see how often it would be
>> useful and ended up doing the other one too. Love the circuit, it's
>> simple, repeatable and flexible plus I use the variable ramp pretty much
>> ALL the time and would be lost without it.
> 
> Thanks for the excellent response (you too, Magnus)!  Now, I'm wondering: Is
> there some reason why you've chosen JFETs over diodes for the wave-shaping
> integrator?  Both circuits behave equally well in simulation.  Is there some
> problem lurking in the latter which my little noobie brain hasn't thought
> of?

The only issue I could think of is that the rise/fall factor could shift 
frequency if diodes are not matched. However, considering the 
not-so-high-precission frequency setting I think you are home safe with 
a simpler diode setup.

One way to get less newbie is to build it and if not content with it, 
try to improve it. Make a prototype and take it for a test-drive...

Get used to prototyping smaller projects... good way to learn.

Cheers,
Magnus


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 01:39:16 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <608393.37626.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


The LM1496 is a very old design. I decided to take things to the extremes. First I made a ring mod out of a new design multiplier:

http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/Data_Sheets/AD633.pdf

Then, just for giggles, I made a ring mod out of vacuum tubes:

http://home.comcast.net/~t.ressel/TUBERINGMOD.pdf

Bases covered.

--TimR


--- On Wed, 3/11/09, alfred.pear at gmail.com <alfred.pear at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: alfred.pear at gmail.com <alfred.pear at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 7:34 PM
> Has anyone built this?
> http://www.evenfall.com/diy/balmod.pdf
> 
> I'm not hearing strong sidebands that one might expect
> from a ring
> modulator...it seems more like a VCA..
> 
> Any reports?
> 
> -A
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From alfred.pear at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 07:14:31 2009
From: alfred.pear at gmail.com (alfred.pear at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:14:31 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <608393.37626.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
	<608393.37626.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ea992b2f0903122314r41c308fbx733c6b4b6308b59d@mail.gmail.com>

Could I convince anyone to go through the initial circuit and describe
what parts should be doing what and maybe get an explanation as to
why?
I'm pretty certain that I understand how a ring modulator should
sound, but I am still learning about the intricacies of how circuits
are designed.

-A



On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> The LM1496 is a very old design. I decided to take things to the extremes. First I made a ring mod out of a new design multiplier:
>
> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/Data_Sheets/AD633.pdf
>
> Then, just for giggles, I made a ring mod out of vacuum tubes:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~t.ressel/TUBERINGMOD.pdf
>
> Bases covered.
>
> --TimR
>
>
> --- On Wed, 3/11/09, alfred.pear at gmail.com <alfred.pear at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: alfred.pear at gmail.com <alfred.pear at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 7:34 PM
>> Has anyone built this?
>> http://www.evenfall.com/diy/balmod.pdf
>>
>> I'm not hearing strong sidebands that one might expect
>> from a ring
>> modulator...it seems more like a VCA..
>>
>> Any reports?
>>
>> -A
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From alfred.pear at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 07:35:33 2009
From: alfred.pear at gmail.com (alfred.pear at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:35:33 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
Message-ID: <ea992b2f0903122335h23c83646lee64744dc7710c20@mail.gmail.com>

anyone here ever endeavor to create a voltage-controlled tuning
mechanism that spanned the Medium Wave/AM band?

i am concerned that a varactor will not provide sufficient range..


-a


From cheater00 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 09:46:51 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:46:51 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0903122314r41c308fbx733c6b4b6308b59d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
	<608393.37626.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<ea992b2f0903122314r41c308fbx733c6b4b6308b59d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903130146h5e0aab71y7b1d5eac7550530f@mail.gmail.com>

Look at http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsrr.html - the 'unfolded'
schematic - and think of 'carrier' as a bias.

D.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 6:14 AM,  <alfred.pear at gmail.com> wrote:
> Could I convince anyone to go through the initial circuit and describe
> what parts should be doing what and maybe get an explanation as to
> why?
> I'm pretty certain that I understand how a ring modulator should
> sound, but I am still learning about the intricacies of how circuits
> are designed.
>
> -A
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Tim Ressel <madhun2001 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> The LM1496 is a very old design. I decided to take things to the extremes. First I made a ring mod out of a new design multiplier:
>>
>> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/Data_Sheets/AD633.pdf
>>
>> Then, just for giggles, I made a ring mod out of vacuum tubes:
>>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~t.ressel/TUBERINGMOD.pdf
>>
>> Bases covered.
>>
>> --TimR
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 3/11/09, alfred.pear at gmail.com <alfred.pear at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: alfred.pear at gmail.com <alfred.pear at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 7:34 PM
>>> Has anyone built this?
>>> http://www.evenfall.com/diy/balmod.pdf
>>>
>>> I'm not hearing strong sidebands that one might expect
>>> from a ring
>>> modulator...it seems more like a VCA..
>>>
>>> Any reports?
>>>
>>> -A
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Fri Mar 13 10:46:49 2009
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:46:49 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
References: <ea992b2f0903122335h23c83646lee64744dc7710c20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002101c9a3c0$a25ad580$0200a8c0@ownerf0d9273f5>

The cap ratio has to vary as the square of the frequency range ratio, so 
that means a ratio of about 10 to 1.
You might find that to get a range like this, the max applied voltage will 
bewell over 10 volts.

What is worse, is that you will need to have at least two tracking systems - 
the RF preamp and the local oscillator.

paul perry Melbourne Australia 



From peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk  Fri Mar 13 12:11:58 2009
From: peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk (Pete Swarbrick)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:11:58 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Question about LFOs
In-Reply-To: <0KGE00BYGMY941@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096469@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
	<0KGE00BYGMY941@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A09646D@eumail.eu.panavision.com>

Hi David
The reason I've stuck with the FETs is more to do with innate
conservatism than anything more techie: ie if it ain't broke don't fix
it.
 This flies in the face of much of my other s-diy noodlings where like
many of us,I will fiddle about for ever trying to build a
bigger/better/quieter/ simpler/faster/easier/louder/sweeter gizmo but
here's the LFO history: I built the first one on stripboard as a
straight copy from the MS-20 (so long ago I can't remember exactly when
!) but substituted a couple of JFETs borrowed from my then employer,
BBCtv. They were probably BF244As since I know we had lots of those!. It
worked very well and I think ended up in a Transcendant 2000 that my
colleague was building. Some time later I laid out an expanded triple
PCB using the then state of the art method we had available at the Beeb:
double-size-drafting-paper-and-tape-photographic-reduction-UV-photo-neve
r-works-first-time-round-unpleasantness. Eventually I redid the board
using Easy-PC pro (that was REAL state-of-the-art back in the day...)
and then used the same layout to produce the two triples I currently
have. 
Were I to make some more (or rather WHEN I make some more, as I surely
will) I will do the same thing, they are quick, simple, repeatable,
cheap and above all USEFUL. Actually at these quantities I find pricing
of the two components largely irrelevant; looking at Farnell here in the
UK although BF244As are a massive 34 times more expensive than 1N4148s
they still only cost 30p each!
I agree with Magnus that diode mismatch would affect frequency over the
range of the waveshape but one of my JFET versions does that too...
maybe I should fix that some day but it's never bothered me - it is
"only" an LFO after all.

Enough memory lane mutterings

Pete



 -----Original Message-----
From: David G. Dixon [mailto:dixon at interchange.ubc.ca] 
Sent: 12 March 2009 17:52
To: Pete Swarbrick; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Question about LFOs

> I have a total of six MS-20 style LFOs in two triple modules. After
some
> time using them I beefed-up the variable ramp output from +/- 2.5V to
> +/- 5V on all LFOs in one module just to see how often it would be
> useful and ended up doing the other one too. Love the circuit, it's
> simple, repeatable and flexible plus I use the variable ramp pretty
much
> ALL the time and would be lost without it.

Thanks for the excellent response (you too, Magnus)!  Now, I'm
wondering: Is
there some reason why you've chosen JFETs over diodes for the
wave-shaping
integrator?  Both circuits behave equally well in simulation.  Is there
some
problem lurking in the latter which my little noobie brain hasn't
thought
of?


checked by CanIt4



From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Mar 13 12:46:25 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:46:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Chris MacDonald "Balanced Modulator"
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0903122314r41c308fbx733c6b4b6308b59d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea992b2f0903111934j473d0925hb97604ecf0e9726f@mail.gmail.com>
	<608393.37626.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<ea992b2f0903122314r41c308fbx733c6b4b6308b59d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DAC5585C-3620-4C59-BFB6-45D174A26AD4@electricdruid.net>


On 13 Mar 2009, at 06:14, alfred.pear at gmail.com wrote:

> Could I convince anyone to go through the initial circuit and describe
> what parts should be doing what and maybe get an explanation as to
> why?
> I'm pretty certain that I understand how a ring modulator should
> sound, but I am still learning about the intricacies of how circuits
> are designed.
>
> -A

There isn't too much to say about that circuit, since most of it is  
inside the LM1496. If you want to know more about that, you can see  
what you can get out of the datasheet:
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/nationalsemiconductor/ 
DS007887.PDF
However, there are a few things that are worth pointing out;
The chip expects differential inputs, and provides differential  
outputs. In this circuit, the inputs are single-ended, so the other  
input is tied to a trimmer to ensure that it sees zero volts. This is  
done for both the carrier and the modulator inputs.
The final op-amp stage is a basic differential amp which converts  
from the differential output to a single-ended output. The two "arms"  
of the amp have different resistor ratios which is unusual (33K/390K  
Vs 33K/330K). Usually these would be the same so that both signals  
have equal influence on the output. Consequently, one of the first  
things I'd try in this circuit would be to replace one of these  
resistors with a trim - perhaps replace the 390K with a 500K trim.
Once you've trimmed it, you can measure the value of the trimmer, and  
then put in a fixed resistor and a smaller trimmer. This gives you  
more "resolution" on your trim.

The way that I understand the action of a balanced modulator is as  
follows;
Imagine a simple VCA controlling gain of a signal. A 0V to +5V  
control signal controls the gain of a non-inverting amp.
Now imagine that you've got another VCA that uses a 0V to -5V control  
signal and controls the gain of a inverting amp.
Stick these two VCAs together, and it's a balanced modulator! A -5V  
to +5V control signal will control the gain and give either an  
inverted output or a non-inverted output depending on the sign of the  
CV input.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
Tom




From cheater00 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 16:11:09 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:11:09 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <002101c9a3c0$a25ad580$0200a8c0@ownerf0d9273f5>
References: <ea992b2f0903122335h23c83646lee64744dc7710c20@mail.gmail.com>
	<002101c9a3c0$a25ad580$0200a8c0@ownerf0d9273f5>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903130811o55476015qb771d08c4d395870@mail.gmail.com>

The idea sounds cool as fuck though.
tuning into and out of a radio station in sync with tempo? hell yeah
or better yet, 'choppers', 'blippers' and utility bands!

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au> wrote:
> The cap ratio has to vary as the square of the frequency range ratio, so
> that means a ratio of about 10 to 1.
> You might find that to get a range like this, the max applied voltage will
> bewell over 10 volts.
>
> What is worse, is that you will need to have at least two tracking systems -
> the RF preamp and the local oscillator.
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From rdrake at data2action.com  Fri Mar 13 16:52:32 2009
From: rdrake at data2action.com (rdrake)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:52:32 -0400
Subject: =?US-ASCII?B?UmU6IFtzZGl5XSB2b2x0YWdlLWNvbnRyb2xsZWQgQU0gcmFkaW8gdHVuaW5n?=
Message-ID: <20090313155232.24176.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>

i've done it w/ FM... found a kit w/ variactor tuning and just jammed in a CV.  as cheater sed, CAF.

bbob

>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: cheater00 at gmail.com
>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:11:09
>
>The idea sounds cool as fuck though.
>tuning into and out of a radio station in sync with
>tempo? hell yeah
>or better yet, 'choppers', 'blippers' and utility
>bands!
>
>On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Paul Perry
><pfperry at melbpc.org.au> wrote:
>> The cap ratio has to vary as the square of the
>frequency range ratio, so
>> that means a ratio of about 10 to 1.
>> You might find that to get a range like this, the
>max applied voltage will
>> bewell over 10 volts.
>>
>> What is worse, is that you will need to have at
>least two tracking systems -
>> the RF preamp and the local oscillator.
>>
>> paul perry Melbourne Australia
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From modulemania at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 17:46:24 2009
From: modulemania at gmail.com (cs e)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:46:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090313155232.24176.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
References: <20090313155232.24176.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <9f3adf770903130946h45d9b4f0v5a999574c2405c5c@mail.gmail.com>

Cool idea! We were just discussing this sort of thing in class today.
We're designing/building an FM transmitter and receiver (centered at
100MHz, etc).

Anyways, we've been looking at the VCO section of the transmitter -
and we're going to use a varactor for tuning.  (A simple pot/voltage
divider going to the varactor.)
The varactor I looked at had about a 15-45 pF range, using our voltage
levels.  Like Mr. Perry said, you can get a greater capacitance range
with larger voltages, depending on the varactor.

So, determine what range of capacitance you need (or will work) and
start looking around.  Maybe you'll find something?

On 3/13/09, rdrake <rdrake at data2action.com> wrote:
> i've done it w/ FM... found a kit w/ variactor tuning and just jammed in a
> CV.  as cheater sed, CAF.
>
> bbob
>
>>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>>From: cheater00 at gmail.com
>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:11:09
>>
>>The idea sounds cool as fuck though.
>>tuning into and out of a radio station in sync with
>>tempo? hell yeah
>>or better yet, 'choppers', 'blippers' and utility
>>bands!
>>
>>On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Paul Perry
>><pfperry at melbpc.org.au> wrote:
>>> The cap ratio has to vary as the square of the
>>frequency range ratio, so
>>> that means a ratio of about 10 to 1.
>>> You might find that to get a range like this, the
>>max applied voltage will
>>> bewell over 10 volts.
>>>
>>> What is worse, is that you will need to have at
>>least two tracking systems -
>>> the RF preamp and the local oscillator.
>>>
>>> paul perry Melbourne Australia
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>
>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From james at 4thharmonic.com  Fri Mar 13 17:52:09 2009
From: james at 4thharmonic.com (James Dunn)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:52:09 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <20090313155232.24176.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
References: <20090313155232.24176.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
Message-ID: <49BA8F39.8000709@4thharmonic.com>

rdrake wrote:
> i've done it w/ FM... found a kit w/ variactor tuning and just jammed in a CV.  as cheater sed, CAF.
>
> bbob
>
>   
This is what I'm working on at the moment - using a Velleman kit from 
Maplin:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=32887&DOY=13m3

The tuning pot outputs a CV from 2-7 volts so a external CV can be 
applied here instead. It also has a built-in VCA on the TDA120U chip.

James


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 13 19:03:13 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:03:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] WEIRD 4 LEGGED ALPS POTS? Peavy analog filter
Message-ID: <BAY144-W507F82A9E084BA6E9E50F6C89C0@phx.gbl>



SO i have a peavy spectrum analog filter box with 2 broken pots. I opened it up and they appear to be stereo (or multi leg) pots
but of a variety i have never seen

PCB mount

(three legs on top, and ONE? on the bottom)


they say ALPS brazil and then #336 10KB

anyone know what these style might be called or where to get them?

thanks so much


--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page






From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 19:35:50 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:35:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Globular Sequencer idea
Message-ID: <845580.15333.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hey,


From synth1 at airmail.net  Fri Mar 13 19:37:33 2009
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:37:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] WEIRD 4 LEGGED ALPS POTS? Peavy analog filter
References: <BAY144-W507F82A9E084BA6E9E50F6C89C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FE1B22B7FE5B4A528EB100FFE6E56B94@curley>

4th leg is the center-tap of the resistance.

Paul S.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Snazelle" <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:03 PM
Subject: [sdiy] WEIRD 4 LEGGED ALPS POTS? Peavy analog filter


>
>
> SO i have a peavy spectrum analog filter box with 2 broken pots. I opened 
> it up and they appear to be stereo (or multi leg) pots
> but of a variety i have never seen
>
> PCB mount
>
> (three legs on top, and ONE? on the bottom)
>
>
> they say ALPS brazil and then #336 10KB
>
> anyone know what these style might be called or where to get them?
>
> thanks so much
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
> (updated monthly)
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
> AUDIO ARK:
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From louis at dompselaar.org  Fri Mar 13 19:39:28 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:39:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] WEIRD 4 LEGGED ALPS POTS? Peavy analog filter
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W507F82A9E084BA6E9E50F6C89C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W507F82A9E084BA6E9E50F6C89C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1C6DCFD3-8036-4262-80E8-239CF4B931D1@dompselaar.org>

Three at one end and one at the other /might/ be center tapped pots.


Op 13 mrt 2009, om 19:03 heeft Dan Snazelle het volgende geschreven:

>
>
> SO i have a peavy spectrum analog filter box with 2 broken pots. I  
> opened it up and they appear to be stereo (or multi leg) pots
> but of a variety i have never seen
>
> PCB mount
>
> (three legs on top, and ONE? on the bottom)
>
>
> they say ALPS brazil and then #336 10KB
>
> anyone know what these style might be called or where to get them?
>
> thanks so much



From jason at redfish.net  Fri Mar 13 19:42:22 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:42:22 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Globular Sequencer idea
In-Reply-To: <845580.15333.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <845580.15333.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a06200709c5e05959f226@[192.168.1.197]>

>Hey,

wow, minimal too. i like it!

:-)



From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 19:47:20 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Globular Sequencer idea, take 2
Message-ID: <641874.91941.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Let's try that again...

Random thought time.

I have been an admirer of the Mikado sequencer that Jim Johnson and Jim Patchell came up with:

http://www.technotoys.com/mikado/

I'd like to make one just like it, only BIGGER! Add the stuff from the Muse, toss in a CD4059 or two, and some CD4089's for good measure. Some selectable transposers would be nice.

I'm thinking a modular sequencer is needed here. Maybe use standard 19" rack panels for mounting. Little circuit boards could be mounted behind, possibly directly to the banana jacks.

--TimR


From jason at redfish.net  Fri Mar 13 22:58:42 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:58:42 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Globular Sequencer idea, take 2
In-Reply-To: <641874.91941.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <641874.91941.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a06200719c5e0867e86d0@[192.168.1.197]>

the Mikado dominates fer sure...

i've been thinking about putting together a (you guessed it...) 
Arduino sequencer platform. the hardware would be similar to regular 
16-step analogue sequencers, but the brain would be uploadable 
software. and one of the applications such a platform could run would 
be a Klee emulator.

also with a software core stuff like sequence memories and saving 
memory via MIDI etc become possible. not to mention MIDI in and out 
and clocking, etc...

seems like the Ard is underpowered for a lot of potential sdiy 
designs but seems perfect for a sequencer.

i'll probably throw some ideas up on the arduino_synth group at some 
point and see if anyone has any comments etc.



>Let's try that again...
>
>Random thought time.
>
>I have been an admirer of the Mikado sequencer that Jim Johnson and 
>Jim Patchell came up with:
>
>http://www.technotoys.com/mikado/
>
>I'd like to make one just like it, only BIGGER! Add the stuff from 
>the Muse, toss in a CD4059 or two, and some CD4089's for good 
>measure. Some selectable transposers would be nice.
>
>I'm thinking a modular sequencer is needed here. Maybe use standard 
>19" rack panels for mounting. Little circuit boards could be mounted 
>behind, possibly directly to the banana jacks.
>
>--TimR
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From matt at smiffytech.com  Fri Mar 13 23:24:25 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:54:25 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Globular Sequencer idea
In-Reply-To: <a06200709c5e05959f226@[192.168.1.197]>
References: <845580.15333.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<a06200709c5e05959f226@[192.168.1.197]>
Message-ID: <49BADD19.1090506@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Jason Proctor at 2009-03-14 05:12...
>>Hey,
> 
> wow, minimal too. i like it!

I was going to say "the Philip Glass of SDIY posters" but then that 
would be more like:

Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey... ;-)


-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Sat Mar 14 01:28:44 2009
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:28:44 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Panels with decals
In-Reply-To: <835835.15903.qm@web26201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <835835.15903.qm@web26201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090314002606.M84573@wowway.com>

I ordered from horisonsisg.com

I forget the price it was a couple of years ago. I think it might
have been around $50 for a ten pack (ie $5 a sheet) but you
could get multiple panels on one sheet. Compare to using
Schaeffer for front panels and its cheap.
(but not as nice...)

H^) harry




On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:33:22 +0000 (GMT), Karl Ekdahl wrote
> > Try using "Alumajet" ... its thin
> > aluminum that you can inkjet print directly
> > on.  Fix it to your pre-drilled aluminum panel, and
> > cut the holes with
> > an x-acto knife.  Spray with clear laquer. Use good
> > quality inkjet ink... not
> > the dye type that smells like ammonia. Dye will fade in
> > direct sunlight
> > (I tested it :^)
> 
> How much is this "alumajet" stuff and where can you get it? The only 
> US distributor i found required registration to access their shop 
> which in turn required a credit check (which seems very strange)..
> 
> Karl
> 
> > H^) harry
> > 
> > On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:58:22 -0700, David G. Dixon wrote
> > > Following up on Danjel van Tijn's queries about
> > Metalphoto, I note 
> > > that some synth DIYers use Lazertran waterslide
> > transfer decals for 
> > > their panels.  I'd be interested in hearing any
> > stories (good or bad)
> > >  about using this.  I understand that it is
> > very easy to tear the 
> > > decals during the transfer process, and at nearly $4 a
> > sheet (twice 
> > > as much as the aluminum panel it would be sticking
> > to!), I really 
> > > don't want that to happen!
> > > 
> > > Also, I would like to know if anyone has tried Papilio
> > decals as an
> > > alternative, and how they compare.
> > > 
> > > I'm interested in bake-on decals applied directly to
> > unpainted aluminum
> > > sheet.
> > > 
> > > David G. Dixon
> > > Professor
> > > Department of Materials Engineering
> > > University of British Columbia
> > > 309-6350 Stores Road
> > > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> > > Canada
> > > 
> > > Tel 1-604-822-3679
> > > Fax 1-604-822-3619
> > > 
> > > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> > > 
> > > The information in this email and in any attachments
> > is confidential 
> > > and intended solely for the attention and use of the
> > named 
> > > addressee(s).  It must not be disclosed to any
> > person without the 
> > > writer's authority.  If you are not the intended
> > recipient, or a 
> > > person responsible for delivering it to the intended
> > recipient, you 
> > > are not authorized to and must not disclose, copy,
> > distribute, or 
> > > retain this message or any part of it.
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > 
> > 
> > Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> 
>       __________________________________________________________
> L?na pengar utan s?kerhet. J?mf?r vilkor online hos Kelkoo.
> http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva





From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Sat Mar 14 01:49:52 2009
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 01:49:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <9f3adf770903130946h45d9b4f0v5a999574c2405c5c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090313155232.24176.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
	<9f3adf770903130946h45d9b4f0v5a999574c2405c5c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49BAFF30.7040103@uni-bonn.de>

cs e schrieb:
> The varactor I looked at had about a 15-45 pF range, using our voltage
> levels.  Like Mr. Perry said, you can get a greater capacitance range
> with larger voltages, depending on the varactor.

Also you can parallel varactors.

Zeners make relatively good varactors. Only up to their zener voltage of 
course.

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159


From atonal at nycap.rr.com  Sat Mar 14 01:51:20 2009
From: atonal at nycap.rr.com (gnw)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:51:20 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] WEIRD 4 LEGGED ALPS POTS? Peavy analog filter
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W507F82A9E084BA6E9E50F6C89C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W507F82A9E084BA6E9E50F6C89C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49BAFF88.2070204@nycap.rr.com>


I've recently had great success dealing with Peavey directly for a few 
parts (including some unusual pots) for an amp that I was repairing.  
The service was great and the price was fair.  Shipping is free for most 
items, within the states at least.  The also have .pdf copies of 
schematics that they will send via email if you need them.

http://www.peavey.com/support/contactinfo/

They don't seem very responsive to email inquiries, but their phone 
service was prompt and extremely helpful.

Hope this helps.

-George


Dan Snazelle wrote:
> SO i have a peavy spectrum analog filter box with 2 broken pots. I opened it up and they appear to be stereo (or multi leg) pots
> but of a variety i have never seen
>
> PCB mount
>
> (three legs on top, and ONE? on the bottom)
>
>
> they say ALPS brazil and then #336 10KB
>
> anyone know what these style might be called or where to get them?
>
> thanks so much
>   



From pata at ieee.org  Sat Mar 14 06:29:38 2009
From: pata at ieee.org (pata at ieee.org)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:29:38 +0900
Subject: [sdiy] thermistor question
In-Reply-To: <B717D13D-F434-4654-BF91-C0411FB1EFEE@dompselaar.org>
References: <29198.47947.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<a06200701c5daf78e6fe2@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B717D13D-F434-4654-BF91-C0411FB1EFEE@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <49BB40C2.2020909@ieee.org>

Hi LISTs!

Yes, I have some 10k and 1k TEMPCOs for sale.

Now I'm very sorry that my HDD's crashed that include my customer list
during my moving to Kawasaki City from Tokyo.
If there are anyone who ordered me TEMPCOs but not yet get them, please
 let me know.

thanks!

Taku

Louis van Dompselaar wrote:
> FWIW, I used the 10k tempcos sold by Takuya Katayama on this list for 
> the Curetronic filter
> and those worked fine.  Mind you, I'm not one for perfectly tuned 
> filters, so it might
> actually have been crap, tuning wise (I sold it, so can't check now), 
> but it wasn't so bad it
> was noticable to me ;-)
> 
> 
> Op 9 mrt 2009, om 17:52 heeft Jason Proctor het volgende geschreven:
> 
>> hey Tim,
>>
>> thanks for the response.
>>
>> yeah i think the SDT-1000 thing is a Roland designation, but i just 
>> wondered whether the 1000 might be significant somehow. i'm probably 
>> confusing thermistors with tempcos.
>>
>> it's not critical, it's just the 1v/oct stabiliser thing :-)
>>
>> tx
>> j


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sat Mar 14 07:21:05 2009
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:21:05 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
References: <20090313155232.24176.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com><9f3adf770903130946h45d9b4f0v5a999574c2405c5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<49BAFF30.7040103@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <005601c9a46d$0ed12d70$0200a8c0@ownerf0d9273f5>

If I had to make a voltage tuned AM radio, I'd use a different approach: I'd 
replace the local oscillator with a RF VCO (some 4046's will go high enough, 
I think.)

With AM band 550KHz to 1600KHz, the local oscillator is (assuming IF of 45 
KHz) 1000KHz to 2055 KHz.
You would need to make the RF front end unselective - easiest way would be 
to make a wide band fet RF amp (or use a MINICIRCUITS amp) and inject the 
amplified RF at the mixer in place of the previous tuned preamp stage.
OK, you will get some spurious btreakthrough of stuff above the audio band - 
but (depending on musical application) this may be no bad thing.

But if you are happy with a slower response, the coolest thing would be a 
voltage controlled motor doing the tuning. Using a small motor driving a pot 
and the tuning shaft, and using the pot as a position sensor for a feedback 
controlled positioning circuit, you could wannder back and foward at will 
using CV.

paul perry Melbourne Australia 



From marr at lumin.us  Sat Mar 14 08:07:18 2009
From: marr at lumin.us (Mark Rivera)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 02:07:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <005601c9a46d$0ed12d70$0200a8c0@ownerf0d9273f5>
References: <20090313155232.24176.qmail@mmm1109.verio-web.com>
	<9f3adf770903130946h45d9b4f0v5a999574c2405c5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<49BAFF30.7040103@uni-bonn.de>
	<005601c9a46d$0ed12d70$0200a8c0@ownerf0d9273f5>
Message-ID: <5ff3c66f0903140007v5f8f8dc7pf1d25ac615e01018@mail.gmail.com>

with a fast enough motor, or maybe a couple of gears and a servo, you
could approximate sample-and-hold :)

how nice that would be driven by a sequencer...


On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Paul Perry <pfperry at melbpc.org.au> wrote:
> If I had to make a voltage tuned AM radio, I'd use a different approach: I'd
> replace the local oscillator with a RF VCO (some 4046's will go high enough,
> I think.)
>
> With AM band 550KHz to 1600KHz, the local oscillator is (assuming IF of 45
> KHz) 1000KHz to 2055 KHz.
> You would need to make the RF front end unselective - easiest way would be
> to make a wide band fet RF amp (or use a MINICIRCUITS amp) and inject the
> amplified RF at the mixer in place of the previous tuned preamp stage.
> OK, you will get some spurious btreakthrough of stuff above the audio band -
> but (depending on musical application) this may be no bad thing.
>
> But if you are happy with a slower response, the coolest thing would be a
> voltage controlled motor doing the tuning. Using a small motor driving a pot
> and the tuning shaft, and using the pot as a position sensor for a feedback
> controlled positioning circuit, you could wannder back and foward at will
> using CV.
>
> paul perry Melbourne Australia
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From cary.roberts at retrosynth.net  Sat Mar 14 21:25:20 2009
From: cary.roberts at retrosynth.net (Cary Roberts)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:25:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
Message-ID: <C39BC53BF9F7435A900343D1B9EA6925@onlive.corp>

>But if you are happy with a slower response, the coolest thing would be a
>voltage controlled motor doing the tuning. Using a small motor driving a
pot
>and the tuning shaft, and using the pot as a position sensor for a feedback
>controlled positioning circuit, you could wannder back and foward at will
>using CV.

That's actually a pretty good idea.  Servos are PWM controlled.  50hz with a
pulse width of .5ms to 2.5ms (1% to 5%) for most servos.  This would be
pretty easy to implement with a 555 timer and comparator.

-Cary



From dave.leith at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 23:09:38 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:09:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>

Any here have any dealings with BG Electronics in Germany? They are
charging me VAT when shipping to Canada. Is this unusual?

Thanks Dave


From cary.roberts at retrosynth.net  Sat Mar 14 23:27:40 2009
From: cary.roberts at retrosynth.net (Cary Roberts)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:27:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <7ee9de2a0903141343v3545aba7w5b65cfd10ac2bee9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C39BC53BF9F7435A900343D1B9EA6925@onlive.corp>
	<7ee9de2a0903141343v3545aba7w5b65cfd10ac2bee9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108E6A2582E343DFB784CB0E92ED9581@onlive.corp>

>Wouldn't the radio pick up the sound of the motor though?

You say that like it's a bad thing. :)

FYI - Bob Drake had a voltage controlled FM radio a couple years ago at the
Analogue Heaven Midwest meet up.  It was quite fun when sequenced.

-Cary



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Sun Mar 15 00:57:01 2009
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:57:01 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <C39BC53BF9F7435A900343D1B9EA6925@onlive.corp>
References: <C39BC53BF9F7435A900343D1B9EA6925@onlive.corp>
Message-ID: <49BC444D.9090400@sonic.net>

Cary Roberts wrote:
>> But if you are happy with a slower response, the coolest thing would be a
>> voltage controlled motor doing the tuning. Using a small motor driving a
>>     
> pot
>   
>> and the tuning shaft, and using the pot as a position sensor for a feedback
>> controlled positioning circuit, you could wannder back and foward at will
>> using CV.
>>     
>
> That's actually a pretty good idea.  Servos are PWM controlled.  50hz with a
> pulse width of .5ms to 2.5ms (1% to 5%) for most servos.  This would be
> pretty easy to implement with a 555 timer and comparator.
>   
Or, take an old car radio with push button station selects, and put a 
row of solenoids in front...nothing like a bunch of solenoids going 
thunk, thunk, thunk

-Dave


From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Sun Mar 15 01:59:42 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:59:42 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics
References: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE9D4A42CA5D4AFF97D9ECE64AB05130@OFFICE>

No they shouldn't be charging you VAT. VAT is only for internal sales and on 
imported goods.
They may have to pay VAT initially but they should be claiming it back from 
the tax office.

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
for the addressee only.
If you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or 
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copies of this e-mail and any files transmitted with it are deleted.
Any views or opinions represented in this e-mail are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Elby Designs.
Although this e-mail and its attachments have been scanned for the presence 
of computer viruses, Elby Designs will not be liable for any losses as a 
result of any viruses being passed on.

Please consider the environment before printing this email

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Leith" <dave.leith at gmail.com>
To: "SDIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:09 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics


> Any here have any dealings with BG Electronics in Germany? They are
> charging me VAT when shipping to Canada. Is this unusual?
>
> Thanks Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sun Mar 15 09:07:43 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:07:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200903150907.43485.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Samstag, 14. M?rz 2009, Dave Leith wrote:
> Any here have any dealings with BG Electronics in Germany? They are
> charging me VAT when shipping to Canada. Is this unusual?

This is indeed unusual, but from the little information on their 
website I would guess that they fall under a special provision for 
small businesses with yearly revenue limited to some rather small 
amount.  If so, they are exempt from handling and charging VAT for 
their own margins and thus are required to push on any VAT charges 
they received from their own vendors to their customers (that's an 
oversimplification, but translating the original tax language into 
english would probably not make it better).  What should happen when 
they export is beyond my knowledge, however.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf microQ V2.22R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada





From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sun Mar 15 09:33:36 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:33:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200903150933.36203.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Samstag, 14. M?rz 2009, Dave Leith wrote:
> Any here have any dealings with BG Electronics in Germany? They are
> charging me VAT when shipping to Canada. Is this unusual?

Grrr... hit the send button accidentally.

If they fall under the exemption outlined, no VAT should be shown on 
the invoice.  I'm not certain if they have to make note to ?19 UStG, 
which regulates this case.

If they show VAT on the invoice, then they should also show a VAT-ID 
(USt-ID), which incidentally would be proof they are not exempt.  If 
so, then they made a mistake in charging you VAT on exporting and 
should correct this.  You would still be liable for duties and VAT in 
Canada of course.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs






From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 15 12:21:56 2009
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:21:56 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Taming an oscillating unity-gain voltage follower
Message-ID: <4C127CA5652C4552B344B28DBCCD9A61@stingo>

Hi list,
	I have been taking some measurements from the filter in a TB-303
clone, an Analogue Solutions TBX-303. As I'm taking the output from directly
after the filter, I wasn't that surprised to discover that apparently the
capacitive loading of all my test leads allows the filter (at high resonance
settings) to easily oscillate at about 10Hz, as it is the effects of the
lower of the filter's two resonant peaks that I am investigating. Nothing
for it but to put in a simple unity-gain buffer.

Having done so I was both dismayed and delighted at the same time to
discover that the *buffer* could easily be made to oscillate at around
760kHz. Dismayed in that I was going to have to suffer the distraction of
fixing it, but delighted (especially now that I _have_ fixed it) as it also
accounts for two similar problems I have seen, one about 6 months ago (on a
piece of commercial kit in fact!), but the other from about 6 *years* ago,
on a module I designed but left on the shelf due to this spurious
oscillation it had, that at the time I didn't have a clue about how to track
down, never mind fix!

Anyway, I turned to Bob Pease's great little book 'Troubleshooting Analog
Circuits' (it is a bit like 'Art of Electronics' - packed with many useful
hints and tips, but most of which have little to no detail as to how or why
they work: for that you need to look elsewhere). The solution is to
apparently increase the ac 'noise gain', which I did by replacing the
output-to-inverting-input short with a 10k resistor, and then placing a 2k
resistor across the inputs of the op amp (fig 8.11b on p102). 760kHz
oscillation is no more! (There is a little more detail on the other 'cures'
given in the book here http://www.national.com/ms/LB/LB-42.pdf but not the
one I've used above - darn!).

I couldn't find much on this sort of thing in the archives, which makes me
think this problem is not that frequent, and thus due mainly to my apparent
poor choice of screened cable for my test leads (it is spec'd at
320pF/meter, so I 'guestimate' I have between 0.5 to 1nF of load on the
buffer output, which is a TL082 by the way). Thus finally my question: have
others seen such oscillations from a simple unity-gain op amp voltage
follower, and if so, what is your preferred method for preventing them?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
www.timstinchcombe.co.uk









From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Mar 15 12:48:41 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:48:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Taming an oscillating unity-gain voltage follower
References: <4C127CA5652C4552B344B28DBCCD9A61@stingo>
Message-ID: <F526B83A37244017A12761B6D5F2234A@jhsilent>

>Having done so I was both dismayed and delighted at the same time to
>discover that the *buffer* could easily be made to oscillate at around
>760kHz.

That's to be expected.

If you don't need zero output impedance, there's an easy cure: Put a 470 Ohm 
resistor between opamp output and the cable.

JH. 



From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Mar 15 13:16:17 2009
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:16:17 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Taming an oscillating unity-gain voltage follower
In-Reply-To: <F526B83A37244017A12761B6D5F2234A@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <BF939E3B2BCB4043952B21DF68CD45EF@stingo>

> >Having done so I was both dismayed and delighted at the same time to 
> >discover that the *buffer* could easily be made to oscillate 
> at around 
> >760kHz.
> 
> That's to be expected.
> 
> If you don't need zero output impedance, there's an easy 
> cure: Put a 470 Ohm 
> resistor between opamp output and the cable.

Now why is that one can get so embroiled in a problem one misses the
absolutely obvious? Of the handful of simulations I had run, plotting loop
gain and phase, I had tried this and realised that the resistor effectively
isolates the cap from the buffer, giving loads of phase margin back, yet had
completely failed to recognise that this was probably the easiest solution?!
Damn! Many thanks Juergen! (Still, at least I know a little more about
'noise gain' now, and its difference to 'signal gain'!)

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
www.timstinchcombe.co.uk






From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Sun Mar 15 14:33:52 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:33:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0903122335h23c83646lee64744dc7710c20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea992b2f0903122335h23c83646lee64744dc7710c20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49BD03C0.5070801@makenoisemusic.com>

I had been wanting to do a VC-radio as a euro rack module. I've got a 
whole bag of varactors to test/ experiment with... not had time yet. In 
any case, I thought I'd mention this IC, because it would be pretty 
simple to VC, however looks like FM only and expensive:

http://www.futurlec.com/cgi-bin/search/qty_price.cgi?part_no=TDA7000

Available though, and it might be a pretty quick way to get something 
like this going!

Tony





alfred.pear at gmail.com wrote:
> anyone here ever endeavor to create a voltage-controlled tuning
> mechanism that spanned the Medium Wave/AM band?
>
> i am concerned that a varactor will not provide sufficient range..
>
>
> -a
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun Mar 15 14:54:17 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:54:17 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Taming an oscillating unity-gain voltage follower
In-Reply-To: <F526B83A37244017A12761B6D5F2234A@jhsilent>
References: <4C127CA5652C4552B344B28DBCCD9A61@stingo>
	<F526B83A37244017A12761B6D5F2234A@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <EEA50E12-BFEC-47BF-90ED-4C319D679502@electricdruid.net>


On 15 Mar 2009, at 11:48, JH. wrote:

>> Having done so I was both dismayed and delighted at the same time to
>> discover that the *buffer* could easily be made to oscillate at  
>> around
>> 760kHz.
>
> That's to be expected.
>
> If you don't need zero output impedance, there's an easy cure: Put  
> a 470 Ohm
> resistor between opamp output and the cable.

Can you prevent this oscillation by sticking a cap in to roll off the  
gain at high frequencies, in a similar way to the common practice on  
inverting unity gain op-amps?

I don't know - I'm asking.

Thanks,
Tom





From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Mar 15 15:46:33 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:46:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Taming an oscillating unity-gain voltage follower
References: <4C127CA5652C4552B344B28DBCCD9A61@stingo>
	<F526B83A37244017A12761B6D5F2234A@jhsilent>
	<EEA50E12-BFEC-47BF-90ED-4C319D679502@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <43CE2C90966E4D36A10012B7297F822E@jhsilent>

>Can you prevent this oscillation by sticking a cap in to roll off the  
>gain at high frequencies, in a similar way to the common practice on  
>inverting unity gain op-amps?

No.

JH.




From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun Mar 15 16:14:20 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:14:20 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Taming an oscillating unity-gain voltage follower
In-Reply-To: <43CE2C90966E4D36A10012B7297F822E@jhsilent>
References: <4C127CA5652C4552B344B28DBCCD9A61@stingo>
	<F526B83A37244017A12761B6D5F2234A@jhsilent>
	<EEA50E12-BFEC-47BF-90ED-4C319D679502@electricdruid.net>
	<43CE2C90966E4D36A10012B7297F822E@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <FC71730B-CC9F-4F23-905D-B6E016BC47D1@electricdruid.net>


On 15 Mar 2009, at 14:46, JH. wrote:

>> Can you prevent this oscillation by sticking a cap in to roll off the
>> gain at high frequencies, in a similar way to the common practice on
>> inverting unity gain op-amps?
>
> No.

Care to elaborate?

T.




From dave.leith at gmail.com  Sun Mar 15 16:35:44 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:35:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics
In-Reply-To: <200903150933.36203.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
	<200903150933.36203.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903150835i15e666abr10ad4ec56d17eb72@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. Well it does sound confusing and only part of their website is
in English.
The top line price of 4.62 for the IC's has been discounted 19% from
the price listed on their site then added back at the bottom. Not sure
if this helps (there seem to be no VAT-ID) but here's what the basic
invoice says:

Art.-Nr.	Menge	Bezeichnung	MwSt%	E-Preis	Gesamt
02605	5	St?ck 	MM74C150N		4.62	23,100?
Gesamt
Sub-Total:			19,41?
charge for paypal:			1,58?
German Post (Dispatch to CA: (1 x 0.1375 kg)):			8,50?
total-net:			29,49?
MwST 19%:			5,60?
Total:			35,10?


On 3/15/09, ASSI <Stromeko at nexgo.de> wrote:
> On Samstag, 14. M?rz 2009, Dave Leith wrote:
>
> > Any here have any dealings with BG Electronics in Germany? They are
>  > charging me VAT when shipping to Canada. Is this unusual?
>
>
> Grrr... hit the send button accidentally.
>
>  If they fall under the exemption outlined, no VAT should be shown on
>  the invoice.  I'm not certain if they have to make note to ?19 UStG,
>  which regulates this case.
>
>  If they show VAT on the invoice, then they should also show a VAT-ID
>  (USt-ID), which incidentally would be proof they are not exempt.  If
>  so, then they made a mistake in charging you VAT on exporting and
>  should correct this.  You would still be liable for duties and VAT in
>  Canada of course.
>
>
>
>  Achim.
>  --
>  +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+
>
>
> Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
>  http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs
>
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Synth-diy mailing list
>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sun Mar 15 18:12:35 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:12:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903150835i15e666abr10ad4ec56d17eb72@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
	<200903150933.36203.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<eaacbb730903150835i15e666abr10ad4ec56d17eb72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200903151812.36957.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Sonntag, 15. M?rz 2009, Dave Leith wrote:
> The top line price of 4.62 for the IC's has been discounted 19%
> from the price listed on their site then added back at the bottom.
> Not sure if this helps (there seem to be no VAT-ID) but here's what
> the basic invoice says:

Just ask them for a correction.  Exports are exempt from VAT, so if 
they are showing it on their invoice it is a mistake anyway.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada





From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Sun Mar 15 20:18:01 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:18:01 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <ea992b2f0903122335h23c83646lee64744dc7710c20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea992b2f0903122335h23c83646lee64744dc7710c20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49BD5469.3070100@makenoisemusic.com>

I had been wanting to do a VC-radio as a euro rack module. I've got a
whole bag of varactors to test/ experiment with... not had time yet. In
any case, I thought I'd mention this IC, because it would be pretty
simple to VC, however looks like FM only and expensive:

http://www.futurlec.com/cgi-bin/search/qty_price.cgi?part_no=TDA7000

Available though, and it might be a pretty quick way to get something
like this going!

Tony





alfred.pear at gmail.com wrote:
> anyone here ever endeavor to create a voltage-controlled tuning
> mechanism that spanned the Medium Wave/AM band?
>
> i am concerned that a varactor will not provide sufficient range..
>
>
> -a
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   




From jhaible at debitel.net  Sun Mar 15 23:00:06 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:00:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Slope Filter / Phaser
Message-ID: <2E6C0B42516942B8BF324BF02A64EDF6@jhsilent>

I think about making PCBs for this.

A mean little module from my JH-3 Modular.

6 filter poles, realzed with OTAs and combined FET / Bipolar buffer stages.

Variable Slope function for 6-pole VC LPF.
Voltage controlled Pole Spread for Phaser mode.
Zeroes switcahbel in pairs, i.e. a lot of combinations of all pass and low 
pass stages. Positive and negative feedback. Positive and negative wet/dry 
mix. Rather special overdrive behaviour (Dirty!), and (IMO) pleasant way of 
breaking into oscillation.

Old picture (from JH-3): 
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/jh3_varislope_phaser_887.jpg

Demo 1 (Arpeggio from OB-8, with delay and reverb. First few seconds dry - 
then playing with phaser.):
http://electro-music.com/forum/download.php?id=16715

Demo 2 ( This is something I recorded a few years ago. I don't remember all 
the details. But it was a Split on the OB-8, bass sound on left hand and 
organ sound on right hand, and the whole thing was processed with the 
Variable Slope Phaser / Filter to get that "pulsating" sound.
Lots of delay and reverb as well, obviously.):
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/oct_06_zwischenstand_edit_189.mp3

JH. 



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 16 00:01:40 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:01:40 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
Message-ID: <BAY144-W2122B8B64B3E0C10ED48B1C89A0@phx.gbl>



Well I had quite a night last night....staying up till 5am with nothing but me and my (newly) fine tuned modular.

(i dont get much sdiy time lately with the new baby)

anyway.

Due to working on the audio ark for so long i HAD built a few chaos modules but never had the chance to fully explore some of the ways of interconnecting them

in the past i had been using them more as individual modulation sources.

anyway...last night i got some amazing stuff going with this setup:

X of jerkster into vco 1. (with cv offset)
Z (i think)  going into the timing input of the T/G/S/H
vco 1 sawtooth going into the input of one half of the T/G/S/H module

the sample and hold output going into the offset CV in off my CGS vco (which allows for negative and positive CV...this is where i was getting some UNREAL effects...by reversing the Sample and Hold Cv source,etc.

i also tried stuff where i muted one of the jerkster outputs and sent one to the cv in of my ssm2044 filter.

the gate and trigger out of the T/G/S/H module were being sent into my adsr.

this was something i had never tried before...having so many interconnections all being controlled by the JERKSTER. such little changes would often make for very large results


so now i have tons of questions!!

1. have many people on here done experiments with multiple chaos modules and if so, could you explain how you set them up?

2. do you tend to get better results at HIGHER or lower RATES?
3. what are you plugging into the MOD ins (of either the Jerkster or the T/G/S/H)?

I dont hear many people mentioning HOW they use these modules. I have always been a big fan but more and more I am starting to feel like the options they open up are truly unique.

with a touch of reverb (or a lot) added even to just the X and Y going to Vco's and the z to the filter, i was getting some amazing SPRING like sounds at high rates.

and on and on.

sorry for the long post but id love to get some more people talking about these.


thanks so much



From mbedtom at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 03:43:39 2009
From: mbedtom at gmail.com (Tom Farrand)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:43:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Good Trader Alert - Paul Dickow
Message-ID: <e85a944f0903151943k731a1f19oca35b9aa73f52987@mail.gmail.com>

Recent transaction between myself and Paul Dickow went smoothly and
without issue.  My experience is: Good trader, no worries!

Peace.
Tom Farrand


From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 05:00:34 2009
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:00:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Servo's Synth Stuff for Sale
Message-ID: <87441170903152100l36b6b9dkc6c94e40160d3e60@mail.gmail.com>

It?s almost Spring, and Servo is clearing out some stuff. I?ve got so
many projects going, that I?m going to get rid of stuff that I don?t
use or don?t have space for or time to fix. ALL OF THESE ITEMS NEED
TLC, BUT I?VE PRICED THEM CHEAP, SO SHOP ACCORDINGLY.
For pics, see http://picasaweb.google.com/tim.parkhurst/ServoSSynthStuffForSale#

Roland U-20 rompler. $75 + shipping. The sound engine and panel
controls work great, but the keyboard on this one is kaput! I revived
it years ago with conductive ink on the keypads, but it?s all hinkey
again. Most likely, the keypad strips need to be replaced. Works great
via MIDI in. I really like the sounds on this one. The piano, strings
and organs are great. I also like the various choir and bass sounds
(the fretless is kinda neat). I?m also including a Pipe Organ /
Harpsichord expansion card.

Ensoniq ESQ-1. $75 + shipping. You either love these or hate them. I
liked it before the internal battery lost power and refuses to let me
reset the thing. ;-) Obviously needs a new internal battery, and I
just don?t have the time for this now. Also has one dead octave on the
keyboard, probably a bad diode in the key matrix. Both of these things
should be relatively easy fixes.

Roland VS-1680 Hard Disk Recorder. $65 + shipping. A good mixer and a
very nice sounding system. I also have the manuals for this one. NEEDS
A NEW ?STOP? KEY. This is another piece I like, but I just don?t use.

If anybody local (San Mateo, CA) wants to swing by and grab any or all
of these, I?ll knock $10 off each item.

I await the flood of interested emails ;-)


Tim (still waiting) Servo
--
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favours only the prosperous." -
Barack Obama



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 13:43:04 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:43:04 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics
In-Reply-To: <200903150933.36203.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
	<200903150933.36203.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903160543g2d441fa4mbf2c739eaec7d40b@mail.gmail.com>

The VAT should be remunerated when exiting the border. But I'm not
sure the courier will handle that in any way.

D.

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 8:33 AM, ASSI <Stromeko at nexgo.de> wrote:
> On Samstag, 14. M?rz 2009, Dave Leith wrote:
>> Any here have any dealings with BG Electronics in Germany? They are
>> charging me VAT when shipping to Canada. Is this unusual?
>
> Grrr... hit the send button accidentally.
>
> If they fall under the exemption outlined, no VAT should be shown on
> the invoice. ?I'm not certain if they have to make note to ?19 UStG,
> which regulates this case.
>
> If they show VAT on the invoice, then they should also show a VAT-ID
> (USt-ID), which incidentally would be proof they are not exempt. ?If
> so, then they made a mistake in charging you VAT on exporting and
> should correct this. ?You would still be liable for duties and VAT in
> Canada of course.
>
>
> Achim.
> --
> +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+
>
> Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
> http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 16 14:42:41 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:42:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
Message-ID: <BAY144-W16E2EE9AE8A1023600CAE8C89B0@phx.gbl>


Well I had quite a night last night....staying up till 5am with nothing but me and my (newly) fine tuned modular.
 
(i dont get much sdiy time lately with the new baby)
 
anyway.
 
Due to working on the audio ark for so long i HAD built a few chaos modules but never had the chance to fully explore some of the ways of interconnecting them
 
in the past i had been using them more as individual modulation sources.
 
anyway...last night i got some amazing stuff going with this setup:
 
X of jerkster into vco 1. (with cv offset)
Z (i think)  going into the timing input of the T/G/S/H
vco 1 sawtooth going into the input of one half of the T/G/S/H module
 
the sample and hold output going into the offset CV in off my CGS vco (which allows for negative and positive CV...this is where i was getting some UNREAL effects...by reversing the Sample and Hold Cv source,etc.
 
i also tried stuff where i muted one of the jerkster outputs and sent one to the cv in of my ssm2044 filter.
 
the gate and trigger out of the T/G/S/H module were being sent into my adsr.
 
this was something i had never tried before...having so many interconnections all being controlled by the JERKSTER. such little changes would often make for very large results
 
 
so now i have tons of questions!!
 
1. have many people on here done experiments with multiple chaos modules and if so, could you explain how you set them up?
 
2. do you tend to get better results at HIGHER or lower RATES?
3. what are you plugging into the MOD ins (of either the Jerkster or the T/G/S/H)?
 
I dont hear many people mentioning HOW they use these modules. I have always been a big fan but more and more I am starting to feel like the options they open up are truly unique.
 
with a touch of reverb (or a lot) added even to just the X and Y going to Vco's and the z to the filter, i was getting some amazing SPRING like sounds at high rates.
 
and on and on.
 
sorry for the long post but id love to get some more people talking about these.
 
 
thanks so much



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 16:12:32 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:12:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Nice push buttons .. & de-bouncing
Message-ID: <49BE6C60.2060906@burnit.co.uk>

Been working a bit on my DigiMod today, playing around with the 'Sampler 
Mode' which I think is going to turn out to be a fun little module.

I've bought a selection of different push buttons to try and find one I 
like, but not much luck so far.  The problem with most of them is the 
action is too stiff.  They need to be able to be triggered rapidly and 
with accurate timing - for the sampler recording/playback start/stop and 
for things like tapping in delay tempo in Delay Mode.

My other requirement which is limiting choice is that I need the buttons 
to be panel mount (.. if I found a really nice, PCB mount button then 
maybe I'd could find a way, but panel mount would be much easier)

Suggestions very welcome.... my ideal would be something like the action 
of the Nord Lead/Rack buttons, or like the action of a short-travel 
laptop keyboard - but in panel mount.

One button I've found so far with an acceptable action is this one:
http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Switches/Push-Button-Switches/Miniature-SPST-momentary-push-switches/
It's nice and light to operate.  On the downside though, the button part 
is too small, and it's really cheap and I'm sure would quickly become 
unreliable - even brand new, the switching gets pretty messy on the 
scope when tapping lightly ... which brings me to my next topic:

De-bouncing...

I'm doing the de-bouncing in software so there is a zero latency 
response time to a state change, and then any further state changes 
within the de-bounce time are ignored.  Playing with the above mentioned 
cheap push-button I find I need at least 5ms, and probably significantly 
longer than this once the switch gets a bit old.

This may not sound like a problem in itself, but I also want the same 
Gate input to be triggered from external sources, such as square wave 
oscillator to allow hard-sync effects with sampled sounds.  The 
de-bounce time unfortunately limits the upper frequency of this.

So what's the experience out there?  Are there better push buttons with 
a nice light action that will work reliably with a de-bounce time 
significantly less than 5ms?  Or am I going to have to live with this?

Seb





From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Mar 16 16:33:07 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:33:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Using digital photoframes as a source of cheap graphic LCD
	screens
Message-ID: <781D1A84-5CB8-4AAD-B406-6196A30C9B7B@electricdruid.net>

This is synth-diy, but only just, so my apologies if this seems  
rather off-topic.

I've bought a few LCD character displays for use in my synth projects  
(and the first one to use one is now nearing completion) but I've  
also wondered about using graphic LCD displays. The problem with  
these is the cost.

However, digital photo frames are now commonplace and cheap. 7"  
frames go on eBay for ?20 - try buying a 7" graphic LCD for that much  
money!

So my question is; Does anyone know of any sites (hackaday or  
instructables or such like) that have opened one of these up and  
worked out how to interface to it, or does anyone know a good reason  
why this isn't a good idea?

If it's possible, I think we should all have big shiny full-colour  
screens on our next wave of synths! Beats poking around in a 16x2 LCD  
window anyway...

Thanks,
Tom






From romeo.fahl at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 16:57:16 2009
From: romeo.fahl at gmail.com (Romeo Fahl)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:57:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Servo's Synth Stuff for Sale
In-Reply-To: <87441170903152100l36b6b9dkc6c94e40160d3e60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87441170903152100l36b6b9dkc6c94e40160d3e60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3a114240903160857j6187b5a1x33b2bf26f0c23ae@mail.gmail.com>

How much for the cat & wheatgrass? (c;

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com> wrote:
> It?s almost Spring, and Servo is clearing out some stuff. I?ve got so
> many projects going, that I?m going to get rid of stuff that I don?t
> use or don?t have space for or time to fix. ALL OF THESE ITEMS NEED
> TLC, BUT I?VE PRICED THEM CHEAP, SO SHOP ACCORDINGLY.
> For pics, see http://picasaweb.google.com/tim.parkhurst/ServoSSynthStuffForSale#
>
> Roland U-20 rompler. $75 + shipping. The sound engine and panel
> controls work great, but the keyboard on this one is kaput! I revived
> it years ago with conductive ink on the keypads, but it?s all hinkey
> again. Most likely, the keypad strips need to be replaced. Works great
> via MIDI in. I really like the sounds on this one. The piano, strings
> and organs are great. I also like the various choir and bass sounds
> (the fretless is kinda neat). I?m also including a Pipe Organ /
> Harpsichord expansion card.
>
> Ensoniq ESQ-1. $75 + shipping. You either love these or hate them. I
> liked it before the internal battery lost power and refuses to let me
> reset the thing. ;-) Obviously needs a new internal battery, and I
> just don?t have the time for this now. Also has one dead octave on the
> keyboard, probably a bad diode in the key matrix. Both of these things
> should be relatively easy fixes.
>
> Roland VS-1680 Hard Disk Recorder. $65 + shipping. A good mixer and a
> very nice sounding system. I also have the manuals for this one. NEEDS
> A NEW ?STOP? KEY. This is another piece I like, but I just don?t use.
>
> If anybody local (San Mateo, CA) wants to swing by and grab any or all
> of these, I?ll knock $10 off each item.
>
> I await the flood of interested emails ;-)
>
>
> Tim (still waiting) Servo
> --
> "A nation cannot prosper long, when it favours only the prosperous." -
> Barack Obama
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From pristak at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar 16 16:59:44 2009
From: pristak at sbcglobal.net (Ross Stapf)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W2122B8B64B3E0C10ED48B1C89A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <424406.84091.qm@web82906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I did something similar SAT night.  I was using mulitple outputs from a Mankato filter set to self resonate and being modulated by the Jerkster.  The multiple outputs went to a Blacet mixer/Processer.   3 of the outputs went to a Blacet scanner first.  The output of the Mixer processor went to a Fritz Waveshaper which was being modulated by one of the other Jerkster outputs.  This went into a CGS Tube VCA which was being opened by a MOTM ADSR which was getting its gate signal from a T/G/S/H module that was fed by another of the Jerkster outputs.  

There were other variations using those modules and a MOTM VCA doing ring mod as well at times.  I had a Doepfer LFO going as well at times feeding the T/G/S/H along with the Jerkster to get S/H signal to modulate various things.

Good times.  I still have that set up.  I need to record it.

Ross


--- On Sun, 3/15/09, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 6:01 PM
> Well I had quite a night last night....staying up till 5am
> with nothing but me and my (newly) fine tuned modular.
> 
> (i dont get much sdiy time lately with the new baby)
> 
> anyway.
> 
> Due to working on the audio ark for so long i HAD built a
> few chaos modules but never had the chance to fully explore
> some of the ways of interconnecting them
> 
> in the past i had been using them more as individual
> modulation sources.
> 
> anyway...last night i got some amazing stuff going with
> this setup:
> 
> X of jerkster into vco 1. (with cv offset)
> Z (i think)  going into the timing input of the T/G/S/H
> vco 1 sawtooth going into the input of one half of the
> T/G/S/H module
> 
> the sample and hold output going into the offset CV in off
> my CGS vco (which allows for negative and positive CV...this
> is where i was getting some UNREAL effects...by reversing
> the Sample and Hold Cv source,etc.
> 
> i also tried stuff where i muted one of the jerkster
> outputs and sent one to the cv in of my ssm2044 filter.
> 
> the gate and trigger out of the T/G/S/H module were being
> sent into my adsr.
> 
> this was something i had never tried before...having so
> many interconnections all being controlled by the JERKSTER.
> such little changes would often make for very large results
> 
> 
> so now i have tons of questions!!
> 
> 1. have many people on here done experiments with multiple
> chaos modules and if so, could you explain how you set them
> up?
> 
> 2. do you tend to get better results at HIGHER or lower
> RATES?
> 3. what are you plugging into the MOD ins (of either the
> Jerkster or the T/G/S/H)?
> 
> I dont hear many people mentioning HOW they use these
> modules. I have always been a big fan but more and more I am
> starting to feel like the options they open up are truly
> unique.
> 
> with a touch of reverb (or a lot) added even to just the X
> and Y going to Vco's and the z to the filter, i was
> getting some amazing SPRING like sounds at high rates.
> 
> and on and on.
> 
> sorry for the long post but id love to get some more people
> talking about these.
> 
> 
> thanks so much
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From madhun2001 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 16 17:11:27 2009
From: madhun2001 at yahoo.com (Tim Ressel)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Nice push buttons .. & de-bouncing
In-Reply-To: <49BE6C60.2060906@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <601331.21011.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Have you considered "touch switches"?

http://www.paia.com/ProdArticles/touchsw.html

There is also a version in the Cmos Cookbook I believe. My copy is hiding again...

--TimR



--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk> wrote:

> From: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
> Subject: [sdiy] Nice push buttons .. & de-bouncing
> To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 8:12 AM
> Been working a bit on my DigiMod today, playing around with
> the 'Sampler Mode' which I think is going to turn
> out to be a fun little module.
> 
> I've bought a selection of different push buttons to
> try and find one I like, but not much luck so far.  The
> problem with most of them is the action is too stiff.  They
> need to be able to be triggered rapidly and with accurate
> timing - for the sampler recording/playback start/stop and
> for things like tapping in delay tempo in Delay Mode.
> 
> My other requirement which is limiting choice is that I
> need the buttons to be panel mount (.. if I found a really
> nice, PCB mount button then maybe I'd could find a way,
> but panel mount would be much easier)
> 
> Suggestions very welcome.... my ideal would be something
> like the action of the Nord Lead/Rack buttons, or like the
> action of a short-travel laptop keyboard - but in panel
> mount.
> 
> One button I've found so far with an acceptable action
> is this one:
> http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Switches/Push-Button-Switches/Miniature-SPST-momentary-push-switches/
> It's nice and light to operate.  On the downside
> though, the button part is too small, and it's really
> cheap and I'm sure would quickly become unreliable -
> even brand new, the switching gets pretty messy on the scope
> when tapping lightly ... which brings me to my next topic:
> 
> De-bouncing...
> 
> I'm doing the de-bouncing in software so there is a
> zero latency response time to a state change, and then any
> further state changes within the de-bounce time are ignored.
>  Playing with the above mentioned cheap push-button I find I
> need at least 5ms, and probably significantly longer than
> this once the switch gets a bit old.
> 
> This may not sound like a problem in itself, but I also
> want the same Gate input to be triggered from external
> sources, such as square wave oscillator to allow hard-sync
> effects with sampled sounds.  The de-bounce time
> unfortunately limits the upper frequency of this.
> 
> So what's the experience out there?  Are there better
> push buttons with a nice light action that will work
> reliably with a de-bounce time significantly less than 5ms? 
> Or am I going to have to live with this?
> 
> Seb
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From czvekan at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 17:23:50 2009
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:23:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MKS-70 OS 1.08 urgently needed
Message-ID: <2A1F789D-1F36-4509-9BFA-DA80E322E2D8@gmail.com>

Hi Everybody,

I am in need of the last OS firmware for the Roland MKS-70 OS 1.08.  
Can anybody send me the binary files so I can upgrade my synth ?


Greatly appreciated


Csaba 


From KingRavine at comcast.net  Mon Mar 16 17:29:11 2009
From: KingRavine at comcast.net (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:29:11 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Nice push buttons .. & de-bouncing
References: <601331.21011.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AF3B6CE3A67B4258B92DC4DE191FA5D8@HypoLuxa>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Ressel" <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Nice push buttons .. & de-bouncing


>
> Have you considered "touch switches"?
>
> http://www.paia.com/ProdArticles/touchsw.html
>
> There is also a version in the Cmos Cookbook I believe. My copy is hiding 
> again...
>
> --TimR
>
>

There's a similar circuit here:

http://www.discovercircuits.com/PDF-FILES/5vtchremom2.PDF

Haven't had a chance to try it yet

Dave Magnuson 



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 17:52:22 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:52:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Nice push buttons .. & de-bouncing
In-Reply-To: <AF3B6CE3A67B4258B92DC4DE191FA5D8@HypoLuxa>
References: <601331.21011.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<AF3B6CE3A67B4258B92DC4DE191FA5D8@HypoLuxa>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903160952mbf57d28s58a842ad0813a0e2@mail.gmail.com>

Seb,
use a separate input for the buttons perhaps?
don't see why not.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Dave Magnuson <KingRavine at comcast.net> wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Ressel" <madhun2001 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Synth DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Nice push buttons .. & de-bouncing
>
>
>>
>> Have you considered "touch switches"?
>>
>> http://www.paia.com/ProdArticles/touchsw.html
>>
>> There is also a version in the Cmos Cookbook I believe. My copy is hiding
>> again...
>>
>> --TimR
>>
>>
>
> There's a similar circuit here:
>
> http://www.discovercircuits.com/PDF-FILES/5vtchremom2.PDF
>
> Haven't had a chance to try it yet
>
> Dave Magnuson
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Mon Mar 16 18:04:15 2009
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:04:15 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Using digital photoframes as a source of cheap graphic
	LCD	screens
In-Reply-To: <781D1A84-5CB8-4AAD-B406-6196A30C9B7B@electricdruid.net>
References: <781D1A84-5CB8-4AAD-B406-6196A30C9B7B@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49BE868F.5040508@cox.net>

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> This is synth-diy, but only just, so my apologies if this seems rather 
> off-topic.
> 
> I've bought a few LCD character displays for use in my synth projects 
> (and the first one to use one is now nearing completion) but I've also 
> wondered about using graphic LCD displays. The problem with these is the 
> cost.
> 
> However, digital photo frames are now commonplace and cheap. 7" frames 
> go on eBay for ?20 - try buying a 7" graphic LCD for that much money!
> 
> So my question is; Does anyone know of any sites (hackaday or 
> instructables or such like) that have opened one of these up and worked 
> out how to interface to it, or does anyone know a good reason why this 
> isn't a good idea?

Interesting idea. I've seen a few teardowns on these things and there's 
really not much to them - some sort of big processor/SoC (usually an ARM 
of some sort, with USB & LCD drive built in), an SD memory slot, power 
supply and user interface. The biggest problem is that the LCD drive 
logic is entirely subsumed in the processor, and the processor is mask 
programmed / OTP so you can't easily reflash it with your own code to 
take over the display. Another issue is that there are literally 
thousands of different models/mfgs of these picture frames out there and 
there's a lot of churn in the marketplace, so getting a reliable supply 
of them one you've done the reverse engineering may be a challenge.

I did a bit of fooling around with the old Mattel JuiceBox toy a while 
back (http://elinux.org/JuiceBox). Overstock.com was blowing them out at 
6 for $25 a few years ago and I picked some up. They've got a Samsung 
ARM with audio, ADC, LCD drive, serial port & 8MB or 32MB of SDRAM. The 
firmware is in an OTP ROM, but some enterprising hackers have figured 
out how to jam their own code into the SDRAM from an external flash at 
startup and there have been apps that use the LCD as a graphic display 
driven from the serial port.

I've seen references to some ebay sales of reasonable-size (QVGA) 
embeddable color LCD screens - usually in the $30 range. Typically these 
need to be refreshed though, so you'd have to find a processor with the 
drive logic to handle that (building your own would be prohibitive) so 
the complexity starts to run away.

There is a pretty nifty little Arduino 'shield' available with a color 
OLED display and touch screen interface.

http://www.liquidware.com/shop/show/TS/TouchShield+Stealth

That's certainly hackable and could be used with other processors.

Eric



From dave.leith at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 18:09:02 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:09:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics
In-Reply-To: <200903151812.36957.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
	<200903150933.36203.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<eaacbb730903150835i15e666abr10ad4ec56d17eb72@mail.gmail.com>
	<200903151812.36957.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903161009s3552c004pb88197a3eed7ec88@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks again to all. Initially they refused to send a refund (claiming
to want Canadian custom papers)  But today they did send a refund, so
all is well.

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 10:12 AM, ASSI <Stromeko at nexgo.de> wrote:
> On Sonntag, 15. M?rz 2009, Dave Leith wrote:
>> The top line price of 4.62 for the IC's has been discounted 19%
>> from the price listed on their site then added back at the bottom.
>> Not sure if this helps (there seem to be no VAT-ID) but here's what
>> the basic invoice says:
>
> Just ask them for a correction.  Exports are exempt from VAT, so if
> they are showing it on their invoice it is a mistake anyway.
>
>
> Achim.
> --
> +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+
>
> SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
> http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 18:45:04 2009
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:45:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Servo's Synth Stuff for Sale
In-Reply-To: <d3a114240903160857j6187b5a1x33b2bf26f0c23ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87441170903152100l36b6b9dkc6c94e40160d3e60@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3a114240903160857j6187b5a1x33b2bf26f0c23ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87441170903161045w6cc7792cr5d7cf21fa594f07a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Romeo Fahl <romeo.fahl at gmail.com> wrote:
> How much for the cat & wheatgrass? (c;
>

Wouldn't sell the cat for all the tea in China.  :'0

The wheatgrass is yours for only $100 (I'll even throw in free
shipping on that one).


Tim (I think the wheatgrass is even ROHS compliant) Servo
-- 
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favours only the prosperous." -
Barack Obama


From djservs at comcast.net  Mon Mar 16 20:46:33 2009
From: djservs at comcast.net (Nate Reeves)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:46:33 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] "voltage control" on the 556
In-Reply-To: <a9ce79240903072104u284848fcq590562d99cdd4652@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9ce79240903072104u284848fcq590562d99cdd4652@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2EE2E0C1-C61C-406A-8B98-62E7110879D2@comcast.net>

Looking at the schematic I knew I had most of the parts laying around  
but save for the 2 470k pots.  >:(

Can I use a different value?  Say 2x 100k?  500K?  1M?  or mix?

Also, I found this guide to the 555 (and 556)

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555/555.html

I am glad to see this circuit with a credit given to Mr. Mims, though  
I can't seem to find my Mims 555 cookbook to see what page its from!

Cheers!

nate(looking at a 555 in the poly6 arp schemo) reeves

On Mar 8, 2009, at 12:04 AM, Horton wrote:

> I'm building an atari punk console -
> http://compiler.kaustic.net/machines/apc.html - and while I'm at it, I
> was wondering what other sorts of modifications I can add to it. Since
> I'm planning on making a bunch of little CMOS noisemakers and effects,
> I was wondering if there's any way to take advantage of the "control
> voltage" pins on the 556. My only knowledge of CV is typical 0-5V
> stuff on modular synths but I was wondering if those two pins are in
> any way similar to voltage control as I know it. My only real goal is
> extra freakout/chaos on this circuit, so I'm certainly not looking for
> something like 1v/octave control or anything like that, but I was
> imagining being able to patch in the output of something else that I
> build later.
>
> Am I totally barking up the wrong tree with this one, or what?
>
> AH
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From lists at studionebula.com  Mon Mar 16 22:07:11 2009
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:07:11 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Using digital photoframes as a source of cheap graphic
	LCDscreens
In-Reply-To: <781D1A84-5CB8-4AAD-B406-6196A30C9B7B@electricdruid.net>
References: <781D1A84-5CB8-4AAD-B406-6196A30C9B7B@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <000901c9a67b$2d944610$1102a8c0@Mariko>


> So my question is; Does anyone know of any sites (hackaday or 
> instructables or such like) that have opened one of these up 
> and worked out how to interface to it, or does anyone know a 
> good reason why this isn't a good idea?

You might find this entry on hackaday.com interesting, if you haven't seen
it already:
http://hackaday.com/2009/01/08/hacking-a-digital-picture-keychain/
It's not about a large picture-frame LCD as you described; it's about a
small keychain-sized LCD. However, that would be enough for a number of
projects. There are also a number of links in the comments to attempts at
hacking larger LCDs.

--Adam



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 22:23:15 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:23:15 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Nice push buttons .. & de-bouncing
Message-ID: <49BEC343.7010903@burnit.co.uk>

Thanks for the replies about this.

Touch switches could actually be really good ... especially if the 
contact area is wide enough to 'drum' 2 fingers for very rapid rhythms.  
I'll have to play around on the breadboard and see if it's possible to 
get a quick enough response time though - the PAiA circuit description 
talks about the response time being sacrificed somewhat to avoid switch 
bounce.

I'd still like to find a nice push button switch though ... this is not 
the first time I've been looking for such a thing for one project or 
another.  I've used plenty of equipment that has nice light push 
switches, but just can't seem to find any for sale on their own...

Seb

P.S. @cheater
Yes, I could use a separate input for the gate in and button in as I do 
have enough to spare.  Now why didn't I think of that?!? :)




From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 22:40:59 2009
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:40:59 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Taming an oscillating unity-gain voltage follower
In-Reply-To: <EEA50E12-BFEC-47BF-90ED-4C319D679502@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <6F03514C33AB4B8A812A1091418F8121@stingo>

Hi Tom,

> Can you prevent this oscillation by sticking a cap in to roll 
> off the  
> gain at high frequencies, in a similar way to the common practice on  
> inverting unity gain op-amps?

Well I would say the answer to that is yes and no: 'yes' in that all the
various methods suggested achieve the aim of suppressing oscillations; but
'no' in that (as it appears to me) there is no simple fix like sticking the
cap in for the inverting set-up, which is reasonably intuitive as the
decreasing cap reactance reduces the gain as the frequency increases. The
resistor between the op amp and the cap is probably the easiest method, but
this and all the others to be seen mess around with the gain and/or
introduce poles/zeroes which have the desired effect, but which (for my
money at least) are a helluva lot less intuitive.

I discovered that Pease book is on Google books, and page 102 with the
method I used, fig 8.11b is in it:

<http://books.google.com/books?id=3kY4-HYLqh0C&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102&dq=pease+%
22troubleshooting+analog+circuits%22+%22noise+gain%22+demichele&source=bl&ot
s=opMSyq35oq&sig=pUrUt0FmalJEiGYMgYfPsyq0eAo&hl=en&ei=kcK-SbfCBOKHjAfFxqilCA
&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result>

I also found a number of different app notes which had one or more of the
methods analysed, including adding the resistor either inside or outside the
loop. It is frustrating that (so far) I haven't found a nice single
reference that seems to cover all the methods from a coherent standpoint.
This one though seems to be better than most (but I only started reading it
over lunch, so I may yet be wrong...):

http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/anp/14130.pdf

None of those I have found cover that Pease configuration, so I guess I'm
going to have to figure it out for myself. I'm hoping that at some point I
find that I 'get it', as at the moment I just seem to be swimming around in
a mass of formulae, which whilst I can understand each individual case, I am
unable to see 'the bigger picture' and relate everything to everything else.
Hopefully with a bit more application and effort I shall get there!

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
www.timstinchcombe.co.uk






From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Mon Mar 16 22:54:04 2009
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:54:04 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Using digital photoframes as a source of cheap graphic
	LCD	screens
In-Reply-To: <49BE868F.5040508@cox.net>
References: <781D1A84-5CB8-4AAD-B406-6196A30C9B7B@electricdruid.net>
	<49BE868F.5040508@cox.net>
Message-ID: <8AC0B239-032E-4090-B055-C17FC92727FD@ntlworld.com>

Hi,

Eric Brombaugh wrote:
> Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>> This is synth-diy, but only just, so my apologies if this seems  
>> rather off-topic.
>> I've bought a few LCD character displays for use in my synth  
>> projects (and the first one to use one is now nearing completion)  
>> but I've also wondered about using graphic LCD displays. The  
>> problem with these is the cost.
>> However, digital photo frames are now commonplace and cheap. 7"  
>> frames go on eBay for ?20 - try buying a 7" graphic LCD for that  
>> much money!
>> So my question is; Does anyone know of any sites (hackaday or  
>> instructables or such like) that have opened one of these up and  
>> worked out how to interface to it, or does anyone know a good  
>> reason why this isn't a good idea?
>
> Interesting idea. I've seen a few teardowns on these things and  
> there's really not much to them - some sort of big processor/SoC  
> (usually an ARM of some sort, with USB & LCD drive built in), an SD  
> memory slot, power supply and user interface. The biggest problem  
> is that the LCD drive logic is entirely subsumed in the processor,  
> and the processor is mask programmed / OTP so you can't easily  
> reflash it with your own code to take over the display. Another  
> issue is that there are literally thousands of different models/ 
> mfgs of these picture frames out there and there's a lot of churn  
> in the marketplace, so getting a reliable supply of them one you've  
> done the reverse engineering may be a challenge.

You're pretty much on the mark.  Many graphic LCDs use common  
interfaces and protocols - MIPI-DSI, SDI, parallel, proprietary - but  
they operate at high data rates, refreshing the LCD every frame (e.g.  
30fps).  You can get standard micros with built-in LCD drivers  
(VideoCore, OMAP, etc) but then you're rapidly heading into large  
amounts of software.  Assuming, of course, that you can get the  
datasheets for the LCD in the first place to write the driver.

Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk






From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 23:22:37 2009
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:22:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Shopping at BG Electronics
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903160543g2d441fa4mbf2c739eaec7d40b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eaacbb730903141509u361df130ycc37cf3a4ba2058a@mail.gmail.com>
	<200903150933.36203.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<cf1e1cb10903160543g2d441fa4mbf2c739eaec7d40b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80903161522l1e996c7em52bda10a41ec70cd@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:43 PM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The VAT should be remunerated when exiting the border. But I'm not
> sure the courier will handle that in any way.
>

What borders?

Samppa (Shrug, Polacks..)


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Tue Mar 17 01:15:37 2009
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:15:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] anyone good with divider chips..SAJ110, MM5823 etc.
Message-ID: <49BEEBA9.4090807@imt.net>

I'm living in a vortex  on this one.  I have a nice..proto board with 
nice..power rails +-12V and variables and +5v.  And I hook up the 
SAJ110's as per the diagram which is in the manual for the Solina.  No 
signal out.  I hooked them up with a variable supply after finding out 
that 12V is actually over rating so 10V or so now.  Still..no signal.  I 
keep swapping in chips.  Surely they aren't all bad.  They ALL pretty 
much put out (save a few exceptions which probably are bad or...good how 
knows :-)  We scavenged them out of a stringman...)  the same signal IF 
you adjust the voltage down to like 5V or so.  And it's nothing but a 
shrunking version of the INPUT SIGNAL!  No f/f division going on here folks!

Ok we tied 22K to all outputs and together on the other sides of the 
resistors and I've tried tying to that to all points and nothing 
changes.  Vary the voltage and at some point it puts out what you are 
putting in frequency wise.

OK so I bust out an MM5823 and hook it up like the Moog MG1 diagram 
shows.  Curiously..if the + rail is not hooked up (just VSS and VGG to 
-12V) I actually get a divided signal on all outputs...albeit a weak signal.

What the heck is going on here?  Any clues?  This kind of stuff is 
really slamming my lunch in the locker door of late :-) -Bob


From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Tue Mar 17 03:08:06 2009
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl.)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:08:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Foot Pedal Enclosure
In-Reply-To: <003101c8f630$0a7063e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
References: <003101c8f630$0a7063e0$8501a8c0@ice9>
Message-ID: <D4202F3F-E478-46A7-800C-A02BD8F7BA15@blauwurf.info>


On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:45 PM, Paul Perry wrote:

> Steve at SmallBear DIY guitar fx supplies in ny has them at $US 44,  
> but I
> guess what with freight it would be cheaper to gut some broken wah  
> that you
> find locally, as most people do.
>
> http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?category=Wah-Wah+and+Swell+Pedal
> +Parts
>
> I bought some Behringer foot controllers with this in mind, but the  
> pot in
> them is nothing special(!) and, not much space to work with either.
>
> I guess it all depends what you want to do, if you just want a foot
> controller for CV, you could mod a behringer (or anything else).

Anyone knows of an european source for such pedals?
I'm not sure if I want to go with Behringer.
I looked up local dealers and musikding.de - no luck so far.


> There is also the problem of whether you want a pedal that will stay  
> where
> it is put. Not all foot controllers do.

That's what I'm looking for - I want to be able to lift my foot and  
the CV should stay where it was.
An accelerator like thing wouldn't help me.

   Thanks a lot, Michael.


--
hear the colours of noise: http://blauwurf.at






From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Tue Mar 17 09:13:41 2009
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl.)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:13:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Foot Pedal Enclosure
Message-ID: <A53CD285-98FD-4DE6-91D1-81EACF1A054A@blauwurf.info>

On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:45 PM, Paul Perry wrote:

> Steve at SmallBear DIY guitar fx supplies in ny has them at $US 44,  
> but I
> guess what with freight it would be cheaper to gut some broken wah  
> that you
> find locally, as most people do.
>
> http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?category=Wah-Wah+and+Swell+Pedal+Parts
>
> I bought some Behringer foot controllers with this in mind, but the  
> pot in
> them is nothing special(!) and, not much space to work with either.
>
> I guess it all depends what you want to do, if you just want a foot
> controller for CV, you could mod a behringer (or anything else).

Anyone knows of an european source for such pedals?
I'm not sure if I want to go with Behringer.
I looked up local dealers and musikding.de - no luck so far.

> There is also the problem of whether you want a pedal that will stay  
> where
> it is put. Not all foot controllers do.

That's what I'm looking for - I want to be able to lift my foot and  
the CV should stay where it was.
An accelerator like thing wouldn't help me.

  Thanks a lot, Michael.


--
hear the colours of noise: http://blauwurf.at


From steve at willacy.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 10:43:41 2009
From: steve at willacy.co.uk (Steve Carter)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:43:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] 100K PCB pots
Message-ID: <1C704CB7-A5C9-467D-B55D-E2426F5CA1B8@willacy.co.uk>

I don't know if it's any interest to any UK member on the list but I  
have some Alps 100K Lin PCB mount pots in lots of 100 for a tenner. I  
have stuck them on eBay
220379318602

Maybe it's time to build that 32 step sequencer on a single PCB with  
no front panel wiring you'd always promised yourself.  I must admit, I  
haven't got round to yet!

Steve


From peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 10:55:53 2009
From: peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk (Pete Swarbrick)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:55:53 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Slope Filter / Phaser
In-Reply-To: <2E6C0B42516942B8BF324BF02A64EDF6@jhsilent>
References: <2E6C0B42516942B8BF324BF02A64EDF6@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096471@eumail.eu.panavision.com>

Hi Jurgen

Sounds like another winner; I love it! I would build one if you go ahead
with the PCBs.
[Also reminds me how I (still) want an OB-8 :<)) ]

Pete


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of JH.
Sent: 15 March 2009 22:00
To: analog heaven; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; MOTM List
Subject: [sdiy] Variable Slope Filter / Phaser

I think about making PCBs for this.

A mean little module from my JH-3 Modular.

6 filter poles, realzed with OTAs and combined FET / Bipolar buffer
stages.

Variable Slope function for 6-pole VC LPF.
Voltage controlled Pole Spread for Phaser mode.
Zeroes switcahbel in pairs, i.e. a lot of combinations of all pass and
low 
pass stages. Positive and negative feedback. Positive and negative
wet/dry 
mix. Rather special overdrive behaviour (Dirty!), and (IMO) pleasant way
of 
breaking into oscillation.

Old picture (from JH-3): 
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/jh3_varislope_phaser_887.jpg

Demo 1 (Arpeggio from OB-8, with delay and reverb. First few seconds dry
- 
then playing with phaser.):
http://electro-music.com/forum/download.php?id=16715

Demo 2 ( This is something I recorded a few years ago. I don't remember
all 
the details. But it was a Split on the OB-8, bass sound on left hand and

organ sound on right hand, and the whole thing was processed with the 
Variable Slope Phaser / Filter to get that "pulsating" sound.
Lots of delay and reverb as well, obviously.):
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/oct_06_zwischenstand_edit_189
.mp3

JH. 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

checked by CanIt4



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 17 13:17:38 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:17:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
In-Reply-To: <424406.84091.qm@web82906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY144-W2122B8B64B3E0C10ED48B1C89A0@phx.gbl>
	<424406.84091.qm@web82906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W481243BA6858A093796F83C8980@phx.gbl>


can you explain what the scanner does in your setup?

i have really been enjoying putting this all through ray's quantizer as well.

thanks



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:59:44 -0700
> From: pristak at sbcglobal.net
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; subjectivity at hotmail.com
>
>
> I did something similar SAT night. I was using mulitple outputs from a Mankato filter set to self resonate and being modulated by the Jerkster. The multiple outputs went to a Blacet mixer/Processer. 3 of the outputs went to a Blacet scanner first. The output of the Mixer processor went to a Fritz Waveshaper which was being modulated by one of the other Jerkster outputs. This went into a CGS Tube VCA which was being opened by a MOTM ADSR which was getting its gate signal from a T/G/S/H module that was fed by another of the Jerkster outputs.
>
> There were other variations using those modules and a MOTM VCA doing ring mod as well at times. I had a Doepfer LFO going as well at times feeding the T/G/S/H along with the Jerkster to get S/H signal to modulate various things.
>
> Good times. I still have that set up. I need to record it.
>
> Ross
>
>
> --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Dan Snazelle  wrote:
>
>> From: Dan Snazelle 
>> Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 6:01 PM
>> Well I had quite a night last night....staying up till 5am
>> with nothing but me and my (newly) fine tuned modular.
>>
>> (i dont get much sdiy time lately with the new baby)
>>
>> anyway.
>>
>> Due to working on the audio ark for so long i HAD built a
>> few chaos modules but never had the chance to fully explore
>> some of the ways of interconnecting them
>>
>> in the past i had been using them more as individual
>> modulation sources.
>>
>> anyway...last night i got some amazing stuff going with
>> this setup:
>>
>> X of jerkster into vco 1. (with cv offset)
>> Z (i think) going into the timing input of the T/G/S/H
>> vco 1 sawtooth going into the input of one half of the
>> T/G/S/H module
>>
>> the sample and hold output going into the offset CV in off
>> my CGS vco (which allows for negative and positive CV...this
>> is where i was getting some UNREAL effects...by reversing
>> the Sample and Hold Cv source,etc.
>>
>> i also tried stuff where i muted one of the jerkster
>> outputs and sent one to the cv in of my ssm2044 filter.
>>
>> the gate and trigger out of the T/G/S/H module were being
>> sent into my adsr.
>>
>> this was something i had never tried before...having so
>> many interconnections all being controlled by the JERKSTER.
>> such little changes would often make for very large results
>>
>>
>> so now i have tons of questions!!
>>
>> 1. have many people on here done experiments with multiple
>> chaos modules and if so, could you explain how you set them
>> up?
>>
>> 2. do you tend to get better results at HIGHER or lower
>> RATES?
>> 3. what are you plugging into the MOD ins (of either the
>> Jerkster or the T/G/S/H)?
>>
>> I dont hear many people mentioning HOW they use these
>> modules. I have always been a big fan but more and more I am
>> starting to feel like the options they open up are truly
>> unique.
>>
>> with a touch of reverb (or a lot) added even to just the X
>> and Y going to Vco's and the z to the filter, i was
>> getting some amazing SPRING like sounds at high rates.
>>
>> and on and on.
>>
>> sorry for the long post but id love to get some more people
>> talking about these.
>>
>>
>> thanks so much
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From pristak at sbcglobal.net  Tue Mar 17 15:22:00 2009
From: pristak at sbcglobal.net (Ross Stapf)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W481243BA6858A093796F83C8980@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <981355.44064.qm@web82904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


It is similar to a sequential switch except that the inputs are blended into each other for a time instead of just an abrupt switch of inputs.  

For this patch I was playing with chaos as well as phase.  I had 2 signals from the Mankato going straight to the Mixer processor.  I had 3 more signals from the Mankato going to the 3 inputs of the scanner and then into another input of the Mixer/processor.  It allowed for more variation of sound.  I was sweeping the scanner manually.  What I didn't do and need to try is using the Jerkster cv into the scanner cv to sweep the inputs.  I dind't do this because it can be a challange to get the cv range scaled for optimal use in the scanner.

Ross


--- On Tue, 3/17/09, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
> To: pristak at sbcglobal.net, "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 7:17 AM
> can you explain what the scanner does in your setup?
> 
> i have really been enjoying putting this all through
> ray's quantizer as well.
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:59:44 -0700
> > From: pristak at sbcglobal.net
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl;
> subjectivity at hotmail.com
> >
> >
> > I did something similar SAT night. I was using
> mulitple outputs from a Mankato filter set to self resonate
> and being modulated by the Jerkster. The multiple outputs
> went to a Blacet mixer/Processer. 3 of the outputs went to a
> Blacet scanner first. The output of the Mixer processor went
> to a Fritz Waveshaper which was being modulated by one of
> the other Jerkster outputs. This went into a CGS Tube VCA
> which was being opened by a MOTM ADSR which was getting its
> gate signal from a T/G/S/H module that was fed by another of
> the Jerkster outputs.
> >
> > There were other variations using those modules and a
> MOTM VCA doing ring mod as well at times. I had a Doepfer
> LFO going as well at times feeding the T/G/S/H along with
> the Jerkster to get S/H signal to modulate various things.
> >
> > Good times. I still have that set up. I need to record
> it.
> >
> > Ross
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Dan Snazelle  wrote:
> >
> >> From: Dan Snazelle 
> >> Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
> >> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 6:01 PM
> >> Well I had quite a night last night....staying up
> till 5am
> >> with nothing but me and my (newly) fine tuned
> modular.
> >>
> >> (i dont get much sdiy time lately with the new
> baby)
> >>
> >> anyway.
> >>
> >> Due to working on the audio ark for so long i HAD
> built a
> >> few chaos modules but never had the chance to
> fully explore
> >> some of the ways of interconnecting them
> >>
> >> in the past i had been using them more as
> individual
> >> modulation sources.
> >>
> >> anyway...last night i got some amazing stuff going
> with
> >> this setup:
> >>
> >> X of jerkster into vco 1. (with cv offset)
> >> Z (i think) going into the timing input of the
> T/G/S/H
> >> vco 1 sawtooth going into the input of one half of
> the
> >> T/G/S/H module
> >>
> >> the sample and hold output going into the offset
> CV in off
> >> my CGS vco (which allows for negative and positive
> CV...this
> >> is where i was getting some UNREAL effects...by
> reversing
> >> the Sample and Hold Cv source,etc.
> >>
> >> i also tried stuff where i muted one of the
> jerkster
> >> outputs and sent one to the cv in of my ssm2044
> filter.
> >>
> >> the gate and trigger out of the T/G/S/H module
> were being
> >> sent into my adsr.
> >>
> >> this was something i had never tried
> before...having so
> >> many interconnections all being controlled by the
> JERKSTER.
> >> such little changes would often make for very
> large results
> >>
> >>
> >> so now i have tons of questions!!
> >>
> >> 1. have many people on here done experiments with
> multiple
> >> chaos modules and if so, could you explain how you
> set them
> >> up?
> >>
> >> 2. do you tend to get better results at HIGHER or
> lower
> >> RATES?
> >> 3. what are you plugging into the MOD ins (of
> either the
> >> Jerkster or the T/G/S/H)?
> >>
> >> I dont hear many people mentioning HOW they use
> these
> >> modules. I have always been a big fan but more and
> more I am
> >> starting to feel like the options they open up are
> truly
> >> unique.
> >>
> >> with a touch of reverb (or a lot) added even to
> just the X
> >> and Y going to Vco's and the z to the filter,
> i was
> >> getting some amazing SPRING like sounds at high
> rates.
> >>
> >> and on and on.
> >>
> >> sorry for the long post but id love to get some
> more people
> >> talking about these.
> >>
> >>
> >> thanks so much
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Tue Mar 17 18:10:24 2009
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:10:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Wanna order stuff from Rapid from outside the UK ?
Message-ID: <20090317171024.GA16619@aym.net2.nerim.net>

If your order is over 250 GBP including VAT, Rapid insist on
payment via bank transfer. Their online sales system won't tell
you that while you dutifully fill in your credit card details --
you will learn about it in an email they will send you the next
day.

When you pay via bank transfer, you are charged 12 GBP extra
because, they say, "our bank will charge us if a customer is
paying into our account from outside of the UK". (Which I thought
an EU regulation from a few years ago had made illegal if your
bank is also in the EU...)

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Mar 17 18:41:19 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:41:19 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W16E2EE9AE8A1023600CAE8C89B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W16E2EE9AE8A1023600CAE8C89B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090317105021.0208aa00@mail.comcast.net>

At 07:42 AM 3/16/2009, Dan Snazelle wrote:

>  1. have many people on here done experiments with multiple chaos modules 
> and if so, could you explain how you set them up?

One setup I had some fun with was to use two of the double-well (ChaQuO) 
circuits in tandem.  This gives a much wider range of patterns than you get 
from a single unit. For example, there are regions where the output is 
quite "bursty", i.e., long periods of slow changes interrupted by short 
periods of rapid changes.

>2. do you tend to get better results at HIGHER or lower RATES?

I've used them more at low rates (control signal range).  But there can be 
some interesting audio-range signals as well.

>3. what are you plugging into the MOD ins (of either the Jerkster or the 
>T/G/S/H)?

I haven't used the modulation of the S/H very much.  It's a bit tricky 
because it has some interaction with the threshold control.  In fact, I 
don't even have it connected in the versions I have behind panels in my 
system.  If you have a chaotic or random signal feeding the timing-signal 
input, then modulation can be used to change the overall rate of the sampling.

The version of the T/G/T/S/H that Elby Designs will soon release is a 
slightly different design and includes an improved modulation input, i.e., 
that is independent of the other controls.

For the Jerkster I've mostly used slow modulation.  But there aren't any 
"best ways" of using these modules.  So experiment with both.

>  I dont hear many people mentioning HOW they use these modules. I have 
> always been a big fan but more and more I am starting to feel like the 
> options they open up are truly unique.

I'd like to hear from more folks about this too.  I still retain my 
original belief that sounds with a chaotic element have a unique appeal -- 
probably because so many of the sounds around us involve chaotic 
processes.  The results are much different from what you get using random 
signals.

>and on and on.

Indeed!  There is still a huge range of unexplored territory.

   Ian 



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Mar 17 18:56:35 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:56:35 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
In-Reply-To: <424406.84091.qm@web82906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY144-W2122B8B64B3E0C10ED48B1C89A0@phx.gbl>
	<424406.84091.qm@web82906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090317114709.021d9210@mail.comcast.net>

Ouch, it hurts my head just to think about all that. :-)

But, yeah, that's roughly the level of complexity I've worked with.  Using 
the contunuous chaos generators along with the T/G/T/S/H  gives you both 
contunuous and discrete chaotic signals to work with, either separately or 
in combination.

I'd love to hear some recordings of that setup, if you have a chance.  We 
could probably get Scott to put something up on the Bridechamber site 
demonstrating using these different modules together.

Thanks for the report, Ross!

   Ian


At 09:59 AM 3/16/2009, Ross Stapf wrote:

>I did something similar SAT night.  I was using mulitple outputs from a 
>Mankato filter set to self resonate and being modulated by the 
>Jerkster.  The multiple outputs went to a Blacet mixer/Processer.   3 of 
>the outputs went to a Blacet scanner first.  The output of the Mixer 
>processor went to a Fritz Waveshaper which was being modulated by one of 
>the other Jerkster outputs.  This went into a CGS Tube VCA which was being 
>opened by a MOTM ADSR which was getting its gate signal from a T/G/S/H 
>module that was fed by another of the Jerkster outputs.
>
>There were other variations using those modules and a MOTM VCA doing ring 
>mod as well at times.  I had a Doepfer LFO going as well at times feeding 
>the T/G/S/H along with the Jerkster to get S/H signal to modulate various 
>things.
>
>Good times.  I still have that set up.  I need to record it.
>
>Ross



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 17 19:04:41 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:04:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20090317114709.021d9210@mail.comcast.net>
References: <BAY144-W2122B8B64B3E0C10ED48B1C89A0@phx.gbl>
	<424406.84091.qm@web82906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090317114709.021d9210@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W19E654ACEA0DF343150B88C8980@phx.gbl>


IAN-two more things


1.one of the reasons i have done a lot of higher rate stuff with my JERKSTER is because it seems to be very tricky to get the pot to stay in the low rate regions. I was wondering if i could switch out the timing cap, or maybe even add a second cap and a HIGH.LOW switch which would add a mode that would limit its range? or would this kill the chances of chaos happening?

2.i made some very long recordings of the setup i posted from saturday. (the jerkster with T/G/T/S/h and 2 vco's, dividers, filter, adsr and at times, a quantizer)

i could edit a few into some mp3's if you let me know where to send em.
i got some quite amazing sounds.


thanks





--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:56:35 -0600
> To: pristak at sbcglobal.net; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl; subjectivity at hotmail.com
> From: ijfritz at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
>
> Ouch, it hurts my head just to think about all that. :-)
>
> But, yeah, that's roughly the level of complexity I've worked with. Using
> the contunuous chaos generators along with the T/G/T/S/H gives you both
> contunuous and discrete chaotic signals to work with, either separately or
> in combination.
>
> I'd love to hear some recordings of that setup, if you have a chance. We
> could probably get Scott to put something up on the Bridechamber site
> demonstrating using these different modules together.
>
> Thanks for the report, Ross!
>
> Ian
>
>
> At 09:59 AM 3/16/2009, Ross Stapf wrote:
>
>>I did something similar SAT night. I was using mulitple outputs from a
>>Mankato filter set to self resonate and being modulated by the
>>Jerkster. The multiple outputs went to a Blacet mixer/Processer. 3 of
>>the outputs went to a Blacet scanner first. The output of the Mixer
>>processor went to a Fritz Waveshaper which was being modulated by one of
>>the other Jerkster outputs. This went into a CGS Tube VCA which was being
>>opened by a MOTM ADSR which was getting its gate signal from a T/G/S/H
>>module that was fed by another of the Jerkster outputs.
>>
>>There were other variations using those modules and a MOTM VCA doing ring
>>mod as well at times. I had a Doepfer LFO going as well at times feeding
>>the T/G/S/H along with the Jerkster to get S/H signal to modulate various
>>things.
>>
>>Good times. I still have that set up. I need to record it.
>>
>>Ross
>



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Tue Mar 17 19:55:43 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:55:43 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Ian's Chaos Modules
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W19E654ACEA0DF343150B88C8980@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W2122B8B64B3E0C10ED48B1C89A0@phx.gbl>
	<424406.84091.qm@web82906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20090317114709.021d9210@mail.comcast.net>
	<BAY144-W19E654ACEA0DF343150B88C8980@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090317124730.02220e48@mail.comcast.net>

At 12:04 PM 3/17/2009, Dan Snazelle wrote:

>1.one of the reasons i have done a lot of higher rate stuff with my 
>JERKSTER is because it seems to be very tricky to get the pot to stay in 
>the low rate regions. I was wondering if i could switch out the timing 
>cap, or maybe even add a second cap and a HIGH.LOW switch which would add 
>a mode that would limit its range? or would this kill the chances of chaos 
>happening?

The timing caps are C1, C2, C3 (.0047).  You could make those bigger.  But 
better would probably be to work through the control current.  You could 
use an audio taper or a 10-turn pot for the rate control.  Or you could add 
a "fine" rate control, say a small pot in series with the rate control.  Or 
you could drive the rate from a standard expo converter with coarse and 
fine controls.

>2.i made some very long recordings of the setup i posted from saturday. 
>(the jerkster with T/G/T/S/h and 2 vco's, dividers, filter, adsr and at 
>times, a quantizer)
>
>i could edit a few into some mp3's if you let me know where to send em.
>i got some quite amazing sounds.

Well, I definitely want to hear those, of course.  You might post them on 
the e-music.com forum.  We could also probably get Scott to put them up at 
bridechamber.com.

Thanks for doing that!

   Ian



From djservs at comcast.net  Tue Mar 17 22:05:26 2009
From: djservs at comcast.net (Nate Reeves)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:05:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] korg poly6 leds
Message-ID: <B7A239CF-CDE0-412B-A64B-370D43DEA702@comcast.net>

seeing the poly 6 on ebay with new bright leds got me inspired to do  
the same with my unit...

what should i look for when stuffing the replacements?

i got some Superbright LEDS but one leg is longer than the other....

does it matter which way i drop in the new led?

doesnt seem like the list is running as of late....

or did i get booted?  lol

cheers

nate





From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Wed Mar 18 01:48:04 2009
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl.)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:48:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] [OT]  Test - PLS ignore
Message-ID: <4F889598-B656-41CC-9728-07DF9879A89B@blauwurf.info>


sorry - missing MSGs again ...  :-(





From cheater00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 15:46:16 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:46:16 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] Dillemma: bad buyer, advice needed
In-Reply-To: <958DC2D1-2BD5-4D32-B6B3-F702BFE68A0A@gmail.com>
References: <307b969c0903171941t7dd6d55am4e18c9ade347b92@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10903180648jb9c85a3n192a05c51d68b6b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<958DC2D1-2BD5-4D32-B6B3-F702BFE68A0A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903180746h6237e2ecl1d08c7744437e81@mail.gmail.com>

You are in no way obliged to return the money.

D.

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Joey Gonzalez <synthesizeme at gmail.com> wrote:
> I sold an mks70 to a guy outside of eBay for $750. I sold it to help fund a
> trip to Canada. A day after I emailed the buyer to let him know that I would
> not be able to ship until I returned from Canada on the 22nd
>
> The buyer agreed to this, and said it was no problem.
>
> Fast forward to yesterday, the buyer posted an item not received dispute on
> paypal. I had not heard anything from him so I emailed wonderin what was up.
>
> He told me he needed a refund because he needed the synth earlier, and
> bought another one local, and is now broke.
>
> I told him that refunding is not an option, that our original agreement
> stands for shipping after the 22nd, and that the dispute is invalid due to
> those terms.
>
> The way I see it is that he could have bought 20 synths, a new car, and a
> house, and it wouldn't have an effect on our transaction because he agreed
> to the delayed shipping date.
>
> He is also posting that the synth has to be broken because of my
> unwillingness to refund.
>
> I have all of the emails saved from beginning to end.
>
> So what I'm asking is: am I wrong to not refund this guy?
>
> I feel as if his method to get the refund is shady behavior, and that he
> should have contacted me first. Combined with his reporting that I must be
> selling something broken, an the fact that our original agreement has not
> been broken, I don't feel inclined to give him a refund at all.
>
> I have a perfect eBay feedback score and good references on both this forum
> and vintage synth explorer, so I think that should be enough to prove that
> I'm not trying to offload a broken item.
>
> I think he's just trying to screw me put of money.
>
> What would you guys do?
>
>
> Via mobile
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>


From cheater00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 15:57:40 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:57:40 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] Dillemma: bad buyer, advice needed
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903180746h6237e2ecl1d08c7744437e81@mail.gmail.com>
References: <307b969c0903171941t7dd6d55am4e18c9ade347b92@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10903180648jb9c85a3n192a05c51d68b6b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<958DC2D1-2BD5-4D32-B6B3-F702BFE68A0A@gmail.com>
	<cf1e1cb10903180746h6237e2ecl1d08c7744437e81@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903180757u54564f4x5a9621772e3e2ab@mail.gmail.com>

sorry, wrong list! doh. This is originally from AH.

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 2:46 PM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> You are in no way obliged to return the money.
>
> D.
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Joey Gonzalez <synthesizeme at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I sold an mks70 to a guy outside of eBay for $750. I sold it to help fund a
>> trip to Canada. A day after I emailed the buyer to let him know that I would
>> not be able to ship until I returned from Canada on the 22nd
>>
>> The buyer agreed to this, and said it was no problem.
>>
>> Fast forward to yesterday, the buyer posted an item not received dispute on
>> paypal. I had not heard anything from him so I emailed wonderin what was up.
>>
>> He told me he needed a refund because he needed the synth earlier, and
>> bought another one local, and is now broke.
>>
>> I told him that refunding is not an option, that our original agreement
>> stands for shipping after the 22nd, and that the dispute is invalid due to
>> those terms.
>>
>> The way I see it is that he could have bought 20 synths, a new car, and a
>> house, and it wouldn't have an effect on our transaction because he agreed
>> to the delayed shipping date.
>>
>> He is also posting that the synth has to be broken because of my
>> unwillingness to refund.
>>
>> I have all of the emails saved from beginning to end.
>>
>> So what I'm asking is: am I wrong to not refund this guy?
>>
>> I feel as if his method to get the refund is shady behavior, and that he
>> should have contacted me first. Combined with his reporting that I must be
>> selling something broken, an the fact that our original agreement has not
>> been broken, I don't feel inclined to give him a refund at all.
>>
>> I have a perfect eBay feedback score and good references on both this forum
>> and vintage synth explorer, so I think that should be enough to prove that
>> I'm not trying to offload a broken item.
>>
>> I think he's just trying to screw me put of money.
>>
>> What would you guys do?
>>
>>
>> Via mobile
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>


From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 19:27:15 2009
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:27:15 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Servo's Synth Stuff for Sale - Part II
Message-ID: <87441170903181127o136073al58250270e6d00b7a@mail.gmail.com>

Too much stuff, too little time, not enough room, and too many
projects I know I'll never get to, so here's an updated listing with
more stuff for sale. Thanks to all those who asked about the VS-1680
Hard Disk Recorder, but it has been sold. I've got a few references
here, and I'm half of the Magic Smoke Electronics team, so you know
where to find me. ;-)  BTW, located in San Mateo, CA, USA. About
halfway between San Jose and San Francisco. Buyer pays shipping.
Thanks for reading!

Tim (clearing the workspace, clearing the mind) Servo
--
"Sire, the church of God is an anvil that has worn out many hammers."
- H.L. Hastings

********************************************
EMU ESI-2000? $100
2U rack mount sampler. Very powerful sampler with 128MB memory. Very
versatile filters and envelopes (digital, but pretty beefy
nonetheless). Built in 3.5" floppy. Does not include a hard drive, but
can accept many SCSI drives. Check for list of compatible drives.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/emu/esi2000.php

Ensoniq ESQ-1? $40 (Reduced Price)
Great synth, but needs a new battery and a system reset. Currently
giving me an error message after being off for three months, and has
one dead octave on the keyboard. Needs some TLC, but is an interesting
synth. Has CEM analog filter/VCA chips too.

Zeus Mixer? $5
3U, six input rack mount stereo mixer. Needs a lot of TLC. Pots are
scratchy and it's pretty beat up. It does work, though. Still, would
make a nice sub mixer when refurbished or a neat project box.

Roland U-220? $110
1U rack mount rompler. Same sound set as the U-20 keyboard. Very nice
sounding, includes expansion slot for additional sound cards.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/index2.html

Roland U-20 $60 (Reduced Price and added expansion sound card)
Five octave keyboard rompler. Great sounds, I especially like the
piano. Needs new keyboard contacts, but works great via MIDI.
Expansion slots on back for additional sounds (ROM) and patch storage
(RAM) cartridges. Includes "Pipe Organ and Harpsichord" AND
"Orchestral Strings" expansion cards. The expansion cards alone are
almost worth the price.

Casio VZ-10M? $90
3U rack mount Phase Distortion synth. Very powerful. Like a CZ on
steroids. Not a great interface, but lots of power under there for
tweakers.
http://www.synthmania.com/vz-10m.htm

Yamaha PSS-460? $5
Four octave mini keyboard. Doesn't want to power up, so useful for
parts or as a project case.
http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/yamaha_pss-460.cfm

Moogerfooger MF-101 Low Pass Filter pedal? $150
Great sounding VCF pedal with built-in envelope follower. Voltage
control of cutoff freq, resonance, dry/wet mix, and envelope amount. A
few scratches, but looks good. Just replaced the knobs and refinished
the wood sides. Works perfectly.
http://www.moogmusic.com/detail.php?main_product_id=5

Memorymoog voice card? $150
Includes three 3340 VCO chips, a nice transistor ladder VCF and a few
3080 chips for VCA and voltage control of resonance. I bought this
years ago intending on making a monosynth from it, but the magic
ingredient is time. :-) I have never powered this up, but have ne
reason to believe there's anything wrong with it.

Fostex Model 450? $100
8 x 4 x 2 desktop mixer. A little dusty and some scratches, but works
nicely. Big and a little heavy, so I'll give a "Local Pickup" discount
of $20 on this one.
www.fostexusa.com/support/pdf/fostex/450/450_owners_manual.pdf

ELECTRONICS / TEST EQUIPMENT:
Topward 6303D-10? $160
Very high quality dual tracking adjustable DC power supply. Over $600
new. Two 0 to 30V outputs (3A total), and one 5V out at 5A. Can set
current limits. Digital panel meters for voltage and current. This
will make a great bench supply for DIY work. Heavy, so I'll add a $10
Local Pickup discount on this one too.
http://www.testmart.com/estore/unit.cfm/DCPWR/TOPWAR/6303D-10/151302/1.html

SYNTH CHIPS:
CEM 3340 VCO? $30ea (1 available, not the white dot MemoryMoog version)
CEM 3374 Dual VCO? $40ea (2 available)
CEM 3396 Waveshaper/VCF/VCA ? narrow body? $20ea (3 available)
CEM 3350 Dual VC State Variable Filter? $20ea (1 available)
CEM 3382 Dual Log VCA? $20ea (2 available)
CEM 3310 VC ADSR? $30ea (2 available)
CEM 3372 VCF/VCA? $20ea (3 available)
CEM 3394 VCO/VCF/VCA "Synth on a chip"? $30ea (3 available)
SSM 2044 VCF? $30ea (1 available)
***************************
End of listing.



From djservs at comcast.net  Wed Mar 18 19:37:43 2009
From: djservs at comcast.net (Nathan M. Reeves)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:37:43 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] test
Message-ID: <0803E54F-C4E3-403E-AAD9-E11A887C5C84@comcast.net>

test


From rainer at buchty.net  Wed Mar 18 20:16:36 2009
From: rainer at buchty.net (Rainer Buchty)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:16:36 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] So silent?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0903182015080.1420@archimobil.fritz.box>

Is the list server currently dead or do I need to have a word with my 
mail server?!

Rainer



From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 01:13:04 2009
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:13:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Servo's Synth Stuph for Sale - The Update
Message-ID: <87441170903181713i57f5170bj6d495bc97e8b7763@mail.gmail.com>

Lotsa responses so far, especially for the CEM chips. I apologize if
there is anyone who has mailed me that I haven't gotten back to yet.
Thanks to everyone who has bought stuff and helped me clear out my
work and storage areas! I've even had face to face meetings with a
couple of local cats, so that was kinda fun. Here's an updated status
list.

Tim (making a list, checking it twice, looking more like Santa all the
time) Servo
--
"Sire, the church of God is an anvil that has worn out many hammers."
- H.L. Hastings

********************************************
EMU ESI-2000  Probably Sold

Ensoniq ESQ-1  SOLD

Zeus Mixer  $5 Still Available

Roland U-220 Rack Mount $110 Still Available

Roland U-20 Keyboard $60 Still Available

Casio VZ-10M  SOLD

Yamaha PSS-460  $5 Still Available

Moogerfooger MF-101 Low Pass Filter pedal - Probably Sold

Memorymoog voice card  SOLD

Fostex Model 450 8 x 4 x 2 Mixer $100 Still Available

ELECTRONICS / TEST EQUIPMENT:
Topward 6303D-10  SOLD

SYNTH CHIPS:
ALL SOLD EXCEPT

CEM 3396 Waveshaper/VCF/VCA ? narrow body  $20ea (3 available)
CEM 3394 VCO/VCF/VCA "Synth on a chip"  $30ea (3 available)
SSM 2044 VCF  $30ea (1 available)
All of these chips are new, not pulls. I have not tested these chips,
but they have been properly stored and I am confident they are just
fine.

I also have 10x 3080 ($1.50ea), 5x 3280 ($2.50) and 8x NE570 ($3.00ea)
if anyone is interested. I actually have more of these chips, but I
figure I can sell part of my stash and still have some saved for a
rainy day. :-)
***************************
End of listing.



From scriptstyle at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 02:47:36 2009
From: scriptstyle at gmail.com (scriptstyle at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:47:36 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Test
Message-ID: <BC7AA217-D8D7-48FE-8AC4-E346996D1461@gmail.com>

For some reason I haven't received an email since Monday. Is anyone  
else experiencing this?

Sent from my iPod


From hughes_david_j at btopenworld.com  Thu Mar 19 07:22:02 2009
From: hughes_david_j at btopenworld.com (David J. Hughes)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 06:22:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Testing, testing...
Message-ID: <C5E7950A.CED0%hughes_david_j@btopenworld.com>

Just a test... Not had any posts since Monday.

D.




From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Thu Mar 19 19:28:23 2009
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:28:23 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ultrasonic Cleaning of PCBs
Message-ID: <49C28EC7.9000602@bugbrand.co.uk>

Hi list,

I wondered if anyone has any experience / tips / tutorials for the 
ultrasonic cleaning of electronic bits'n'pieces.. I have been looking at 
how to make the job of PCB cleaning less hassle - I use so called 
NoClean solder, but there always remains quite a lot of residue, some of 
which tends to be very stubborn - I now use special cleaner as 
Iso-Alcohol doesn't seem to be quite up to the job often.

With this in mind I purchased a cheap Aoyue Ultrasonic cleaner - cheap, 
just to check things out really. The instructions it came with were, 
however, very poor and gave little useful info detail. I also got a 
bottle of 'ultrasonic cleaning fluid' (to be diluted 5-20%) from the 
vendor at the same time (again with little info). I've tried some google 
searching but haven't managed to find anything much useful, especially 
related to PCB cleaning.

The cleaner runs at either 33kHz (normal) or 50kHz (hi-speed) - one 
google reference said that a 'swept' frequency would be much more 
efficient and less prone to cause damage (!)
I've tried using the cleaning fluid - it seemed to leave the boards with 
a film a bit like fairy liquid and I haven't made up my mind yet as to 
whether the cleaning action is fully satisfactory.
I've also tried Iso-alcohol in there - this cleaned some but not all of 
the gunk.

Anyone got tips on types of liquid to use?
And also how long to run the process for -- the machine has an auto time 
of 99seconds (it is a basic machine!) (I think that question may be like 
asking 'how long is a piece of string'?!)
Another question is what is safe to clean with the machine -- I'm 
presuming that most standard passive components should be fine and 
likewise anything that is 'sealed'. The big question is what to do for 
standard, unsealed Pots and Switches -- will they be messed up by 
cleaning? (In current experiments I'm just cleaning once the board is 
stuffed expect for the switches and pots)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers & best,
Tom / BugBrand


From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Fri Mar 20 03:18:35 2009
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:18:35 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Casio CV out retrofitting...  ..confusion
Message-ID: <919981.39850.qm@web26206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


Hi list

I'm doing a CV out for a casio, using the common technique of scanning the output from the CPU to the keyboard and reading what comes out of it. The output lines are ACTIVE LOW and goes to eight groups of keys, each key outputting to a shared six-line databus (i.e all C's and F#s on data line 0, C# and G's on data line 1 etc.) . Now reading the six keys as ACTIVE LOW works just fine, but figuring out which group is active is getting retardedly hard. I was expecting all lines to be HIGH except for the line of the group that was currently scanned, something like 

11111110 
11111101 
11111011 
11110111 
11101111 
11011111 
10111111 
01111111

But i never get this, all i get is a mash-up of 1's and 0's making it impossible to know which group the depressed key belongs to. I wonder if i'm just confused or maybe it's some kind of timing issue? i did this several years ago to an SK-1 and it worked fine.. comments?

Karl


      __________________________________________________________
G?r det l?ngsamt? Skaffa dig en snabbare bredbandsuppkoppling. 
S?k och j?mf?r priser hos Kelkoo.
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100015813-bredband.html?partnerId=96914325



From gil_we at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 09:20:03 2009
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:20:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Faked uA726HC ? 
Message-ID: <671788.49218.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


I first got known to the 726 while repairing my Korg Trident,
where it acts as a temperature controlled dual transistor,
responsible for the keyboard scaling.

I now have a tuning drift problem one of my Jupiter 4 voice boards,
and as I have two spare uA726HC, I thought giving it a try and replacing it on the problematic board.

Result - no voice !


Question 1:

So can I conclude that the uA726HC acts as an oscillator on the Jupiter 4, and does not have anything to do with tuning in that machine ? 


Question 2:

Do I have FAKED uA726HC chips ???


What do you think ?...


      


From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Fri Mar 20 10:43:25 2009
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:43:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ultrasonic Cleaning of PCBs
Message-ID: <49C3653D.5090900@bugbrand.co.uk>

Hi list,
(I think the list wasn't working yesterday, but now it is back??!!)

I wondered if anyone has any experience / tips / tutorials for the 
ultrasonic cleaning of electronic bits'n'pieces.. I have been looking at 
how to make the job of PCB cleaning less hassle - I use so called 
NoClean solder, but there always remains quite a lot of residue, some of 
which tends to be very stubborn - I now use special cleaner as 
Iso-Alcohol doesn't seem to be quite up to the job often.

With this in mind I purchased a cheap Aoyue Ultrasonic cleaner - cheap, 
just to check things out really. The instructions it came with were, 
however, very poor and gave little useful info detail. I also got a 
bottle of 'ultrasonic cleaning fluid' (to be diluted 5-20%) from the 
vendor at the same time (again with little info). I've tried some google 
searching but haven't managed to find anything much useful, especially 
related to PCB cleaning.

The cleaner runs at either 33kHz (normal) or 50kHz (hi-speed) - one 
google reference said that a 'swept' frequency would be much more 
efficient and less prone to cause damage (!)
I've tried using the cleaning fluid - it seemed to leave the boards with 
a film a bit like fairy liquid and I haven't made up my mind yet as to 
whether the cleaning action is fully satisfactory.
I've also tried Iso-alcohol in there - this cleaned some but not all of 
the gunk.

Anyone got tips on types of liquid to use?
And also how long to run the process for -- the machine has an auto time 
of 99seconds (it is a basic machine!) (I think that question may be like 
asking 'how long is a piece of string'?!)
Another question is what is safe to clean with the machine -- I'm 
presuming that most standard passive components should be fine and 
likewise anything that is 'sealed'. The big question is what to do for 
standard, unsealed Pots and Switches -- will they be messed up by 
cleaning? (In current experiments I'm just cleaning once the board is 
stuffed expect for the switches and pots)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers & best,
Tom / BugBrand



From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Fri Mar 20 11:02:55 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:02:55 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Ultrasonic Cleaning of PCBs
References: <49C28EC7.9000602@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E4738028DC5D47A29F7071C25A26A8A9@OFFICE>

Hi,

No Clean solder is what it says it is - No Clean. There will be some residue 
and this is completely harmless but just doesn't look pretty.
If you are going to clean the boards because you don't like the appearance 
then I would recommend NOT using No Clean solders. You will then find the 
boards much easier to clean.

Have a read of this page 
http://www.acc-silicones.com/products/electrochemicals.ashx

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

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of computer viruses, Elby Designs will not be liable for any losses as a 
result of any viruses being passed on.

Please consider the environment before printing this email

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Bugs" <admin at bugbrand.co.uk>
To: <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 5:28 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Ultrasonic Cleaning of PCBs


> Hi list,
>
> I wondered if anyone has any experience / tips / tutorials for the 
> ultrasonic cleaning of electronic bits'n'pieces.. I have been looking at 
> how to make the job of PCB cleaning less hassle - I use so called NoClean 
> solder, but there always remains quite a lot of residue, some of which 
> tends to be very stubborn - I now use special cleaner as Iso-Alcohol 
> doesn't seem to be quite up to the job often.
>
> With this in mind I purchased a cheap Aoyue Ultrasonic cleaner - cheap, 
> just to check things out really. The instructions it came with were, 
> however, very poor and gave little useful info detail. I also got a bottle 
> of 'ultrasonic cleaning fluid' (to be diluted 5-20%) from the vendor at 
> the same time (again with little info). I've tried some google searching 
> but haven't managed to find anything much useful, especially related to 
> PCB cleaning.
>
> The cleaner runs at either 33kHz (normal) or 50kHz (hi-speed) - one google 
> reference said that a 'swept' frequency would be much more efficient and 
> less prone to cause damage (!)
> I've tried using the cleaning fluid - it seemed to leave the boards with a 
> film a bit like fairy liquid and I haven't made up my mind yet as to 
> whether the cleaning action is fully satisfactory.
> I've also tried Iso-alcohol in there - this cleaned some but not all of 
> the gunk.
>
> Anyone got tips on types of liquid to use?
> And also how long to run the process for -- the machine has an auto time 
> of 99seconds (it is a basic machine!) (I think that question may be like 
> asking 'how long is a piece of string'?!)
> Another question is what is safe to clean with the machine -- I'm 
> presuming that most standard passive components should be fine and 
> likewise anything that is 'sealed'. The big question is what to do for 
> standard, unsealed Pots and Switches -- will they be messed up by 
> cleaning? (In current experiments I'm just cleaning once the board is 
> stuffed expect for the switches and pots)
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> Cheers & best,
> Tom / BugBrand
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From louis at dompselaar.org  Fri Mar 20 11:08:35 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:08:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Wanna order stuff from Rapid from outside the UK ?
In-Reply-To: <20090317171024.GA16619@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <20090317171024.GA16619@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <72CD2EAB-2029-4BC7-BE9F-C5551A24C6F1@dompselaar.org>

>


>  (Which I thought
> an EU regulation from a few years ago had made illegal if your
> bank is also in the EU...)

This regulation only counts if the payment is made in euros.

The usual fees apply for payment in other currencies.



From colin at colinfraser.com  Fri Mar 20 11:11:13 2009
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:11:13 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Wanna order stuff from Rapid from outside the UK ?
In-Reply-To: <20090317171024.GA16619@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <0D1E61B28C854B51B26FC5B1B56BC8BB@zen2>

 
> When you pay via bank transfer, you are charged 12 GBP extra
> because, they say, "our bank will charge us if a customer is
> paying into our account from outside of the UK". (Which I thought
> an EU regulation from a few years ago had made illegal if your
> bank is also in the EU...)

The EU directive only covers transfers in the same currency, so the UK banks
get around it.
My bank charges me 7ukp minimum to receive a transfer, unless the sender
specifically pays all fees.
I have often found that if the sender 'ticks the box' for covering all fees,
they don't get charged any extra, and I don't get charged the 7 quid.
So if they are given the option to charge a fee, the bank just takes the
piss.
Yet another scam of the British banking industry.

Cheers,
Colin f




From ijfritz at comcast.net  Fri Mar 20 11:29:48 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 04:29:48 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Taming an oscillating unity-gain voltage follower
In-Reply-To: <6F03514C33AB4B8A812A1091418F8121@stingo>
References: <EEA50E12-BFEC-47BF-90ED-4C319D679502@electricdruid.net>
	<6F03514C33AB4B8A812A1091418F8121@stingo>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090320042744.02107f70@mail.comcast.net>

Compensation is well covered here:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slod006b/slod006b.pdf
especially Ch 7.

  Ian




At 03:40 PM 3/16/2009, Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
>Hi Tom,
>
> > Can you prevent this oscillation by sticking a cap in to roll
> > off the
> > gain at high frequencies, in a similar way to the common practice on
> > inverting unity gain op-amps?
>
>Well I would say the answer to that is yes and no: 'yes' in that all the
>various methods suggested achieve the aim of suppressing oscillations; but
>'no' in that (as it appears to me) there is no simple fix like sticking the
>cap in for the inverting set-up, which is reasonably intuitive as the
>decreasing cap reactance reduces the gain as the frequency increases. The
>resistor between the op amp and the cap is probably the easiest method, but
>this and all the others to be seen mess around with the gain and/or
>introduce poles/zeroes which have the desired effect, but which (for my
>money at least) are a helluva lot less intuitive.
>
>I discovered that Pease book is on Google books, and page 102 with the
>method I used, fig 8.11b is in it:
>
><http://books.google.com/books?id=3kY4-HYLqh0C&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102&dq=pease+%
>22troubleshooting+analog+circuits%22+%22noise+gain%22+demichele&source=bl&ot
>s=opMSyq35oq&sig=pUrUt0FmalJEiGYMgYfPsyq0eAo&hl=en&ei=kcK-SbfCBOKHjAfFxqilCA
>&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result>
>
>I also found a number of different app notes which had one or more of the
>methods analysed, including adding the resistor either inside or outside the
>loop. It is frustrating that (so far) I haven't found a nice single
>reference that seems to cover all the methods from a coherent standpoint.
>This one though seems to be better than most (but I only started reading it
>over lunch, so I may yet be wrong...):
>
>http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/anp/14130.pdf
>
>None of those I have found cover that Pease configuration, so I guess I'm
>going to have to figure it out for myself. I'm hoping that at some point I
>find that I 'get it', as at the moment I just seem to be swimming around in
>a mass of formulae, which whilst I can understand each individual case, I am
>unable to see 'the bigger picture' and relate everything to everything else.
>Hopefully with a bit more application and effort I shall get there!
>
>Tim
>__________________________________________________________
>Tim Stinchcombe
>
>Cheltenham, Glos, UK
>email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
>www.timstinchcombe.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tensiontype at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 20 11:57:03 2009
From: tensiontype at hotmail.com (Sean Ellis)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:57:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] korg poly6 leds
In-Reply-To: <B7A239CF-CDE0-412B-A64B-370D43DEA702@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY144-DAV855A44D39511A0B3102F2B3970@phx.gbl>

Yes before you do any of this you need to check the polarity of the LEDs,
placing them in the wrong way could possibly cause damage! You will probably
need to also change the resistors limiting the current to the LEDs as they
will be getting 1982-standards LED current and will run at maximum
brightness (maybe you want that but with modern LEDs being so bright its
fine to cut the current feeding them and save some strain on the
powersupply).

I would really be careful with superbright LEDs in synths though, they are
so bright they can hurt your eyes and make playing the synth ever so
slightly annoying :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Nate Reeves
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:05 PM
To: Synth-DIY DIY
Subject: [sdiy] korg poly6 leds

seeing the poly 6 on ebay with new bright leds got me inspired to do  
the same with my unit...

what should i look for when stuffing the replacements?

i got some Superbright LEDS but one leg is longer than the other....

does it matter which way i drop in the new led?

doesnt seem like the list is running as of late....

or did i get booted?  lol

cheers

nate



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Mar 20 12:05:05 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:05:05 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] korg poly6 leds
In-Reply-To: <B7A239CF-CDE0-412B-A64B-370D43DEA702@comcast.net>
References: <B7A239CF-CDE0-412B-A64B-370D43DEA702@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <739BA469-C7E0-47ED-AA44-CC3861EB9528@electricdruid.net>

Hi Nate,

On 17 Mar 2009, at 21:05, Nate Reeves wrote:

> seeing the poly 6 on ebay with new bright leds got me inspired to  
> do the same with my unit...
>
> what should i look for when stuffing the replacements?

You'll need to watch out for the current rating, so you don't put in  
new LEDs that use more juice than the old ones and fry something.
There are a few others, but most of the LEDs are on the KLM371 panel  
board, and are driven by  SN74LS75 four bit latches. The LEDs are  
hanging off the +5V rail with a 470R resistor, so the chip is sinking  
current rather than sourcing it. You can look up in the datasheet how  
much the outputs on this chip can take. If you're adding new  
superbright LEDs, you may well need to replace the resistors too to  
limit the current to a safe level.
Even with increased resistance, I'd still expect them to be much  
brighter. LED efficiency has improved a lot since the polysix was built.

> i got some Superbright LEDS but one leg is longer than the other....
>
> does it matter which way i drop in the new led?

Yes. LEDs are like all diodes and need to be the right way around.  
Test one of your LEDs first to find out which round it should be and  
how much current it draws with a 470R resistor.

> doesnt seem like the list is running as of late....

No, it definitely disappeared for a bit there.

T.




From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Fri Mar 20 12:54:04 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:54:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] schematics of MAM MB33 MkI
Message-ID: <49C383DC.7030702@mnet-online.de>

Hi,

someone helpful did send me the schematics for the MAM MB33 MK1 two 
months ago. Now I lost the files it due to a HD-crash, and the mail is 
already deleted.
Who ever sent me the files - could you please send me the files once again?

Thank you in advance!

Florian


From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 20 14:27:43 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:27:43 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
Message-ID: <BAY141-W54F45B1F56F8DD806A749EF5970@phx.gbl>


Hey all,
A while back I posted something about working on a random tone generator, begging for a link to the hand drawn schematics, and saying that I was working on digitizing them to make them a bit easier to read.
Well, time passes, I lost the link... again... but I have a print out sitting on my desk, and I've put a highly modified version into Eagle to brush up on my PCB skills.
I haven't actually tested the circuit yet (just not enough time between classes) but it's completely based on CMOS chips at the moment.
I'd love to get someone's opinion on the thing so far, but I'm not quite sure how to post documents to the list.
The other thing I'm wondering is, if this were to be a module, what would you want it to have in addition to the tone output?
Thanks for your time,
-Ian
_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme


From music.maker at gte.net  Fri Mar 20 14:28:23 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 06:28:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
Message-ID: <200903201328.n2KDSNU7019666@linux7.lan>

A note about the AM (American band) radio: I used to play with crystal sets as a kid
and it was quite standard that the variable capacitor for tuning the circuit was a
365 pF job.  That's a little big for varactors, but as been said they can be paralleled.


Tony Rolando <tony at makenoisemusic.com> wrote:
>I had been wanting to do a VC-radio as a euro rack module. I've got a 
>whole bag of varactors to test/ experiment with... not had time yet. In 
>any case, I thought I'd mention this IC, because it would be pretty 
>simple to VC, however looks like FM only and expensive:
>
>http://www.futurlec.com/cgi-bin/search/qty_price.cgi?part_no=TDA7000
>
>Available though, and it might be a pretty quick way to get something 
>like this going!
>
>Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>alfred.pear at gmail.com wrote:
>> anyone here ever endeavor to create a voltage-controlled tuning
>> mechanism that spanned the Medium Wave/AM band?
>>
>> i am concerned that a varactor will not provide sufficient range..
>>
>>
>> -a
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>   
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Fri Mar 20 16:02:52 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:02:52 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
Message-ID: <41701.81.58.240.234.1237561372.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


Scott Gravenhorst schreef:
> A note about the AM (American band) radio: I used to play with crystal
> sets as a kid
> and it was quite standard that the variable capacitor for tuning the
> circuit was a
> 365 pF job.  That's a little big for varactors, but as been said they can
> be paralleled.

The ones in cheap transistor radios have much smaller values, around 150
pF. The section for the oscillator is even smaller.

See for example items BC-540 and BC-88 on
http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p98.htm

5 BB153 varicaps (ca. 0.2 EUR in small quantities) in parallel give at
least 173 pF.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From paul.dickow at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 16:18:38 2009
From: paul.dickow at gmail.com (Paul Dickow)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:18:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Good Trader Alert - Paul Dickow
In-Reply-To: <e85a944f0903151943k731a1f19oca35b9aa73f52987@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e85a944f0903151943k731a1f19oca35b9aa73f52987@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f93c02ec0903200818t62eaf4e2s5f80c4a4ac4df24@mail.gmail.com>

Likewise it was great to do business with Tom!
P

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Tom Farrand <mbedtom at gmail.com> wrote:
> Recent transaction between myself and Paul Dickow went smoothly and
> without issue. ?My experience is: Good trader, no worries!
>
> Peace.
> Tom Farrand
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
Paul Dickow
STRATEGY
www.community-library.net
www.archigramophone.com
Community Library/Kranky/Audio Dregs/Entr'acte/ORAC/Dreck/



From tshire at charter.net  Fri Mar 20 17:00:08 2009
From: tshire at charter.net (Travis Shire)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:00:08 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Faked uA726HC ? 
References: <671788.49218.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1A14AA1CA1844E3C9CB1CE9EE09C7C90@mariaop97hfsg4>

I suppose anything that sells for enough money can and *will* be faked by 
these clowns in the orient. I had a batch of fake TO-3 pwr x-istors come my 
way a little while back. Its getting so common I've become alot more 
selective with vendors.


>
> I first got known to the 726 while repairing my Korg Trident,
> where it acts as a temperature controlled dual transistor,
> responsible for the keyboard scaling.
>
> I now have a tuning drift problem one of my Jupiter 4 voice boards,
> and as I have two spare uA726HC, I thought giving it a try and replacing 
> it on the problematic board.
>
> Result - no voice !
>
>
> Question 1:
>
> So can I conclude that the uA726HC acts as an oscillator on the Jupiter 4, 
> and does not have anything to do with tuning in that machine ?
>
>
> Question 2:
>
> Do I have FAKED uA726HC chips ???
>
>
> What do you think ?...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From don at till.com  Fri Mar 20 17:38:04 2009
From: don at till.com (Donald Tillman)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:38:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <41701.81.58.240.234.1237561372.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	(simon.oo.o@xs4all.nl)
References: <41701.81.58.240.234.1237561372.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m2hc1o176b.fsf@till.com>


[Talk of varactors and tuning AM radios...]

Okay guys, here's how you do it.

Screw the varactor...  Get a servo motor and controller, attach a
large plastic hand and arm to it, like from a store manikin, but
you'll want something with fingers that can grip a knob.

Set it up on stage; An actual AM, FM or shortwave Radio, the fake arm
and hand, and the servo motor.  It'll look great, and the audience
will enjoy watching the detatched hands move and be able to relate to
where the noises are coming from.

Have a second servo hand turn the band select switch between AM, FM
and the various shortwave bands.  Add more radios and more servo
hands.

Add a TV set; an old style one with a channel tuning knob.  And just
for effect you'll want an additional servo hand on the horizontal hold
or tint knobs.  Or solenoids operating a remote control.

That's so much more fun than a varactor.


  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Fri Mar 20 18:02:41 2009
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:02:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] sdiy list up/down
Message-ID: <49C3CC31.7040603@sonic.net>

Hi folks,

I sent a message to Rick Jansen yesterday after failing to get the 
needed daily sdiy fix.  He replied the ADSL modem had died, and he had 
replaced it, and brought the list back online.

Three cheers for Rick!  :-)

-Dave


From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Mar 20 18:27:56 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:27:56 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] sdiy list up/down
In-Reply-To: <49C3CC31.7040603@sonic.net>
References: <49C3CC31.7040603@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <38FD1AA8-402F-4854-8D7F-99BA1A0F6A20@electricdruid.net>


On 20 Mar 2009, at 17:02, Dave Manley wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I sent a message to Rick Jansen yesterday after failing to get the  
> needed daily sdiy fix.  He replied the ADSL modem had died, and he  
> had replaced it, and brought the list back online.
>
> Three cheers for Rick!  :-)

Definitely. The world would be a less interesting place without the  
SDIY list, so kudos to him for keeping it running.

Thanks Rick!

Tom




From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Fri Mar 20 18:46:59 2009
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:46:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] korg poly6 leds
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-DAV855A44D39511A0B3102F2B3970@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20090320174659.7J63R.290509.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi,

Sean Ellis wrote: 
> Yes before you do any of this you need to check the polarity of the LEDs,
> placing them in the wrong way could possibly cause damage!

Or more likely they just won't turn on.

> You will probably
> need to also change the resistors limiting the current to the LEDs as they
> will be getting 1982-standards LED current and will run at maximum
> brightness

I found that too when I replaced all the red LEDs on my Siel Opera 6 with modern blue ones.  In the end I had to increase the limiting resistors from 270R up to 33k otherwise they were painfully bright!!!

Cheers,
Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri Mar 20 19:20:31 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:20:31 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
Message-ID: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk>

Hi,

I didn't get much of response in my quest for a nice push button (maybe 
because the SDIY list went down right when I was asking?)

So I'd still really like to find a source for some nice quality, light 
action push buttons.  They must exist 'off the shelf' somewhere - 
there's plenty of commercial equipment with nice buttons.

Preferably panel mount, but I'd consider anything that can be mounted 
behind a panel somehow.

TIA,
Seb





From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Fri Mar 20 20:23:29 2009
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:23:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
In-Reply-To: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49C3ED31.7050908@gte.net>

Hi Seb!

you might try searching Gogle images for "lighted pushbuttons" or 
"lighted push button" and "illuminated push button" and see what comes up
Omron and NKK make some nice ones too.  seems the challenge is finding 
them small enough as many ar lareg industrial units...

Best Wishes!


Cynthia

http://www.cyndustries.com/




Seb Francis wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I didn't get much of response in my quest for a nice push button 
> (maybe because the SDIY list went down right when I was asking?)
>
> So I'd still really like to find a source for some nice quality, light 
> action push buttons.  They must exist 'off the shelf' somewhere - 
> there's plenty of commercial equipment with nice buttons.
>
> Preferably panel mount, but I'd consider anything that can be mounted 
> behind a panel somehow.
>
> TIA,
> Seb


>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Fri Mar 20 20:31:06 2009
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:31:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W54F45B1F56F8DD806A749EF5970@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY141-W54F45B1F56F8DD806A749EF5970@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C3EEFA.2000503@gte.net>

Hi Ian!

Have a look for some possible inspiration at Synapse Magazine May/June 
1977  here:

http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/intro.cfm

(the one with Bob Moog on the cover)

There's a DIY article on Phil Lori's Digital DroneZilla with Random Raga 
Logic
what I believe is that you need several of the voice circuits shown 
hooked up to a random 4 bit digital number generator
(which as I remember, is not shown).  I'd love to do a run of those 
boards someday as the unitz sounded truly great!

Best Wishes!


Cynthia

http://www.cyndustries.com/




Ian Smith wrote:
> Hey all,
> A while back I posted something about working on a random tone generator, begging for a link to the hand drawn schematics, and saying that I was working on digitizing them to make them a bit easier to read.
> Well, time passes, I lost the link... again... but I have a print out sitting on my desk, and I've put a highly modified version into Eagle to brush up on my PCB skills.
> I haven't actually tested the circuit yet (just not enough time between classes) but it's completely based on CMOS chips at the moment.
> I'd love to get someone's opinion on the thing so far, but I'm not quite sure how to post documents to the list.
> The other thing I'm wondering is, if this were to be a module, what would you want it to have in addition to the tone output?
> Thanks for your time,
> -Ian
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?.
> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From dave_3283 at sbcglobal.net  Fri Mar 20 20:31:57 2009
From: dave_3283 at sbcglobal.net (David Holt)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
References: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk> <49C3ED31.7050908@gte.net>
Message-ID: <806728.2175.qm@web81803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Cynthia-
What are the ones you are using on the programmer?? I haven't seen one in person, but they certainly look sharp.

-dave



----- Original Message ----
From: Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
To: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
Cc: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:23:29 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action

Hi Seb!

you might try searching Gogle images for "lighted pushbuttons" or "lighted push button" and "illuminated push button" and see what comes up
Omron and NKK make some nice ones too.? seems the challenge is finding them small enough as many ar lareg industrial units...

Best Wishes!


Cynthia

http://www.cyndustries.com/




Seb Francis wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I didn't get much of response in my quest for a nice push button (maybe because the SDIY list went down right when I was asking?)
> 
> So I'd still really like to find a source for some nice quality, light action push buttons.? They must exist 'off the shelf' somewhere - there's plenty of commercial equipment with nice buttons.
> 
> Preferably panel mount, but I'd consider anything that can be mounted behind a panel somehow.
> 
> TIA,
> Seb


> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Fri Mar 20 20:58:51 2009
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:58:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
In-Reply-To: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20090320195851.GA3107@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2009-03-20 18:20 +0000, Seb Francis wrote:

> So I'd still really like to find a source for some nice quality,
> light  action push buttons.  They must exist 'off the shelf'
> somewhere -  there's plenty of commercial equipment with nice
> buttons.
>
> Preferably panel mount, but I'd consider anything that can be
> mounted  behind a panel somehow.

If you don't need a "d?clic" (that would be "positive feel" in
English, I think) I once used some very much like the APEM ones
that Radiospares sell (order code 336-747 or 336-731). Can't tell
you anything about their bounce time, but I was happy with them.

They're not cheap and they protrude quite a bit, though. There's
always the possibility of mounting them on a recessed strip of
metal screwed to the back of the panel...

If you have a minimum order issue with RS, I'm going to place an
order there soon.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From loscha at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 21:33:13 2009
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 07:33:13 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <m2hc1o176b.fsf@till.com>
References: <41701.81.58.240.234.1237561372.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
	<m2hc1o176b.fsf@till.com>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0903201333u40602b76ob9efba5d7e2e0191@mail.gmail.com>

My thoughts were going towards switching more caps/coils in parallel
with cd4066 or what have you to extend range. Flicking them on and off
in patterns could "Arpeggiate" the timbres generated. I think
Stockhausen did a similar sounding thing (with splicing, of course) in
Hymnen.

-ErJ

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Donald Tillman <don at till.com> wrote:
>
> [Talk of varactors and tuning AM radios...]
>
> Okay guys, here's how you do it.
>
> Screw the varactor...  Get a servo motor and controller, attach a
> large plastic hand and arm to it, like from a store manikin, but
> you'll want something with fingers that can grip a knob.
>
> Set it up on stage; An actual AM, FM or shortwave Radio, the fake arm
> and hand, and the servo motor.  It'll look great, and the audience
> will enjoy watching the detatched hands move and be able to relate to
> where the noises are coming from.
>
> Have a second servo hand turn the band select switch between AM, FM
> and the various shortwave bands.  Add more radios and more servo
> hands.
>
> Add a TV set; an old style one with a channel tuning knob.  And just
> for effect you'll want an additional servo hand on the horizontal hold
> or tint knobs.  Or solenoids operating a remote control.
>
> That's so much more fun than a varactor.
>
>
>  -- Don
>
> --
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California
> don at till.com
> http://www.till.com
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



-- 
www.loscha.com


From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Fri Mar 20 21:44:46 2009
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:44:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
In-Reply-To: <806728.2175.qm@web81803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk> <49C3ED31.7050908@gte.net>
	<806728.2175.qm@web81803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C4003E.8050300@gte.net>

Hi David!

Our Programmer module is here for a look.
(you can ever try the buttons virtually on the web page :)

http://www.cyndustries.com/index_programmer.cfm

The button info is here, they're rather pricey, but I like the distinct snap
 these switches make.  There is no doubt about the exact moment of an
event, (Crisp Switches: very Goood...  Mushy switches: very Baaaad).

Mouser.com part number:

Omron 16mm button 653-A165L-TRM-24D-2

it says 24 volt but they're typical high brightness LEDs and
it's just a quick change of the current limiting resistor for other 
voltages,
(such as +/-15Vdc...no problem)

we are preparing  another run of our Programmer Modules as the first
batch of them sold out in two-weeks!    All the circuit boards are built
and we're waiting on front panels to arrive, so we'll be ordering gobs
of these in Red and Yellow quite soon, if you need a bunch perhaps we
can combine orders for a better quantity.

Best Wishes and Thanks!


Cynthia

http://www.cyndustries.com/





David Holt wrote:
> Cynthia-
> What are the ones you are using on the programmer?  I haven't seen one in person, but they certainly look sharp.
>
> -dave
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
> To: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
> Cc: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:23:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
>
> Hi Seb!
>
> you might try searching Gogle images for "lighted pushbuttons" or "lighted push button" and "illuminated push button" and see what comes up
> Omron and NKK make some nice ones too.  seems the challenge is finding them small enough as many ar lareg industrial units...
>
> Best Wishes!
>
>
> Cynthia
>
> http://www.cyndustries.com/
>
>
>
>
> Seb Francis wrote:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> I didn't get much of response in my quest for a nice push button (maybe because the SDIY list went down right when I was asking?)
>>
>> So I'd still really like to find a source for some nice quality, light action push buttons.  They must exist 'off the shelf' somewhere - there's plenty of commercial equipment with nice buttons.
>>
>> Preferably panel mount, but I'd consider anything that can be mounted behind a panel somehow.
>>
>> TIA,
>> Seb
>>     
>
>
>   
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>   



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Fri Mar 20 22:08:44 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:08:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
In-Reply-To: <49C4003E.8050300@gte.net>
References: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk>
	<49C3ED31.7050908@gte.net>	<806728.2175.qm@web81803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49C4003E.8050300@gte.net>
Message-ID: <49C405DC.2030408@makenoisemusic.com>

Yeowsa, you were not kidding when you said pricey! Those are some of the 
coolest looking switches out there though...


Tony

Cynthia Webster wrote:
> Hi David!
>
> Our Programmer module is here for a look.
> (you can ever try the buttons virtually on the web page :)
>
> http://www.cyndustries.com/index_programmer.cfm
>
> The button info is here, they're rather pricey, but I like the 
> distinct snap
> these switches make.  There is no doubt about the exact moment of an
> event, (Crisp Switches: very Goood...  Mushy switches: very Baaaad).
>
> Mouser.com part number:
>
> Omron 16mm button 653-A165L-TRM-24D-2
>
> it says 24 volt but they're typical high brightness LEDs and
> it's just a quick change of the current limiting resistor for other 
> voltages,
> (such as +/-15Vdc...no problem)
>
> we are preparing  another run of our Programmer Modules as the first
> batch of them sold out in two-weeks!    All the circuit boards are built
> and we're waiting on front panels to arrive, so we'll be ordering gobs
> of these in Red and Yellow quite soon, if you need a bunch perhaps we
> can combine orders for a better quantity.
>
> Best Wishes and Thanks!
>
>
> Cynthia
>
> http://www.cyndustries.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> David Holt wrote:
>> Cynthia-
>> What are the ones you are using on the programmer?  I haven't seen 
>> one in person, but they certainly look sharp.
>>
>> -dave
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
>> To: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
>> Cc: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:23:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
>>
>> Hi Seb!
>>
>> you might try searching Gogle images for "lighted pushbuttons" or 
>> "lighted push button" and "illuminated push button" and see what 
>> comes up
>> Omron and NKK make some nice ones too.  seems the challenge is 
>> finding them small enough as many ar lareg industrial units...
>>
>> Best Wishes!
>>
>>
>> Cynthia
>>
>> http://www.cyndustries.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Seb Francis wrote:
>>  
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I didn't get much of response in my quest for a nice push button 
>>> (maybe because the SDIY list went down right when I was asking?)
>>>
>>> So I'd still really like to find a source for some nice quality, 
>>> light action push buttons.  They must exist 'off the shelf' 
>>> somewhere - there's plenty of commercial equipment with nice buttons.
>>>
>>> Preferably panel mount, but I'd consider anything that can be 
>>> mounted behind a panel somehow.
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>> Seb
>>>     
>>
>>
>>  
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>     
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>>   
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From jason at redfish.net  Fri Mar 20 22:22:53 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:22:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
In-Reply-To: <49C405DC.2030408@makenoisemusic.com>
References: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk>	<49C3ED31.7050908@gte.net>
	<806728.2175.qm@web81803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<49C4003E.8050300@gte.net>
	<49C405DC.2030408@makenoisemusic.com>
Message-ID: <a06200702c5e9b925d7e5@[192.168.1.179]>

fwiw, dave bradley proposed the digikey #EG1938-ND (red, other 
colours available) switch for MOTM ages ago. they're $3.77 in small 
quantities, $2.90 for 100-250.




>Yeowsa, you were not kidding when you said pricey! Those are some of 
>the coolest looking switches out there though...
>
>
>Tony
>
>Cynthia Webster wrote:
>>Hi David!
>>
>>Our Programmer module is here for a look.
>>(you can ever try the buttons virtually on the web page :)
>>
>>http://www.cyndustries.com/index_programmer.cfm
>>
>>The button info is here, they're rather pricey, but I like the distinct snap
>>these switches make.  There is no doubt about the exact moment of an
>>event, (Crisp Switches: very Goood...  Mushy switches: very Baaaad).
>>
>>Mouser.com part number:
>>
>>Omron 16mm button 653-A165L-TRM-24D-2
>>
>>it says 24 volt but they're typical high brightness LEDs and
>>it's just a quick change of the current limiting resistor for other voltages,
>>(such as +/-15Vdc...no problem)
>>
>>we are preparing  another run of our Programmer Modules as the first
>>batch of them sold out in two-weeks!    All the circuit boards are built
>>and we're waiting on front panels to arrive, so we'll be ordering gobs
>>of these in Red and Yellow quite soon, if you need a bunch perhaps we
>>can combine orders for a better quantity.
>>
>>Best Wishes and Thanks!
>>
>>
>>Cynthia
>>
>>http://www.cyndustries.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>David Holt wrote:
>>>Cynthia-
>>>What are the ones you are using on the programmer?  I haven't seen 
>>>one in person, but they certainly look sharp.
>>>
>>>-dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----
>>>From: Cynthia Webster <cynthia.webster at gte.net>
>>>To: Seb Francis <seb at burnit.co.uk>
>>>Cc: Synth DIY <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>>>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:23:29 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
>>>
>>>Hi Seb!
>>>
>>>you might try searching Gogle images for "lighted pushbuttons" or 
>>>"lighted push button" and "illuminated push button" and see what 
>>>comes up
>>>Omron and NKK make some nice ones too.  seems the challenge is 
>>>finding them small enough as many ar lareg industrial units...
>>>
>>>Best Wishes!
>>>
>>>
>>>Cynthia
>>>
>>>http://www.cyndustries.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Seb Francis wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>I didn't get much of response in my quest for a nice push button 
>>>>(maybe because the SDIY list went down right when I was asking?)
>>>>
>>>>So I'd still really like to find a source for some nice quality, 
>>>>light action push buttons.  They must exist 'off the shelf' 
>>>>somewhere - there's plenty of commercial equipment with nice 
>>>>buttons.
>>>>
>>>>Preferably panel mount, but I'd consider anything that can be 
>>>>mounted behind a panel somehow.
>>>>
>>>>TIA,
>>>>Seb
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From danjel at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 22:41:13 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:41:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] sync/reset of the Livewire Vulcan
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903201441s5dd1c3adheec9dfe5df7d469b@mail.gmail.com>

I jsut received a Livewire Vulcan and although it is pretty cool as
is, I definitely need to add some expanders to it.
Number one will be some switches to select the routing options (which
are currently jumpers on the pcb)
The second thing which is really essential to me for rhythmic stuff is
to have some way of retriggering the two LFO's.

Anyone here who has a Vulcan (or familiar with it's circuitry) and
knows how this mod can be done?

cheers,
Danjel


Danjel van Tijn
m. 604-773-2426
w. www.intellijel.com
w. www.myspace.com/intellijel


From scott at tellun.com  Fri Mar 20 23:58:54 2009
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:58:54 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
In-Reply-To: <a06200702c5e9b925d7e5@[192.168.1.179]>
References: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk> <49C3ED31.7050908@gte.net>
	<806728.2175.qm@web81803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49C4003E.8050300@gte.net> <49C405DC.2030408@makenoisemusic.com>
	<a06200702c5e9b925d7e5@[192.168.1.179]>
Message-ID: <884FBF05-7541-4A9F-AC41-13110D9935FC@tellun.com>

I've been using these for a few years now. They don't snap, but they  
work just fine, no problems with any of them so far. Here's a picture  
of one in use:

http://www.tellun.com/motm/diy/tln866/TLN-866_prototype.jpg

Requires a half-inch hole.

>
>
> fwiw, dave bradley proposed the digikey #EG1938-ND (red, other  
> colours available) switch for MOTM ages ago. they're $3.77 in small  
> quantities, $2.90 for 100-250.



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Mar 21 02:48:19 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 01:48:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
Message-ID: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>

Thanks for the replies so far ... but I should clarify: I'm looking for 
push buttons with a light pressure to activate.  I don't need them to 
light up.

I think the ones Jason and Scott mentioned (Digikey EG1938-ND) require 
quite a strong push to turn them on (if this is the switch I think it is).






From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Mar 21 03:05:47 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 02:05:47 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
In-Reply-To: <20090320195851.GA3107@aym.net2.nerim.net>
References: <49C3DE6F.7080501@burnit.co.uk>
	<20090320195851.GA3107@aym.net2.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <49C44B7B.3090006@burnit.co.uk>

Andre Majorel wrote:
> If you don't need a "d?clic" (that would be "positive feel" in
> English, I think) I once used some very much like the APEM ones
> that Radiospares sell (order code 336-747 or 336-731). Can't tell
> you anything about their bounce time, but I was happy with them.
>
> They're not cheap and they protrude quite a bit, though. There's
> always the possibility of mounting them on a recessed strip of
> metal screwed to the back of the panel...
>   

These look good actually, and RS carry quite a range of variations.  I'm
not too bothered about how far they protrude ... like you say they could
be mounted deeper if necessary.  Only thing I noticed was the datasheet
says panel thickness 1.5mm which might be a bit thin for alu modular
panels ... I guess I should buy a couple to see for myself (I'm not even
sure it's the right datasheet as the part number doesn't correspond
exactly with anything in the datasheet).

> If you have a minimum order issue with RS, I'm going to place an
> order there soon.
>
>   

Fortunately I have an account with RS so they will send a courier right
to my front door at zero cost, even just for 1 push button ... probably
why their prices are on the high side!  Thanks anyway.

Seb






From scott at tellun.com  Sat Mar 21 03:08:49 2009
From: scott at tellun.com (Scott Juskiw)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:08:49 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
In-Reply-To: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3FEF587C-A81D-4122-AA75-FB3EE7739C5D@tellun.com>

I'm not sure how I would measure the amount of force required to  
activate the switch, maybe that info is in the data sheet. It's  
certainly not a light touch, but it's not overly obstinate either.  
There is no way that you'd accidentally activate it by simply touching  
it, you have to give it a good push, probably 1/8" before it makes  
contact. It's probably not what you are looking for.

On 20-Mar-09, at 7:48 PM, Seb Francis wrote:

> Thanks for the replies so far ... but I should clarify: I'm looking  
> for push buttons with a light pressure to activate.  I don't need  
> them to light up.
>
> I think the ones Jason and Scott mentioned (Digikey EG1938-ND)  
> require quite a strong push to turn them on (if this is the switch I  
> think it is).
>



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Mar 21 03:21:51 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 02:21:51 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice light action
In-Reply-To: <3FEF587C-A81D-4122-AA75-FB3EE7739C5D@tellun.com>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<3FEF587C-A81D-4122-AA75-FB3EE7739C5D@tellun.com>
Message-ID: <49C44F3F.7020609@burnit.co.uk>

I haven't seen many datashsheets specifying activation force ... and I 
wouldn't really know what value I'm looking for anyway :)

I was thinking about the same resistance as a lightweight laptop 
keyboard, so quite light really.  More worried about being able to tap 
in time than accidental operation.


Scott Juskiw wrote:
> I'm not sure how I would measure the amount of force required to 
> activate the switch, maybe that info is in the data sheet. It's 
> certainly not a light touch, but it's not overly obstinate either. 
> There is no way that you'd accidentally activate it by simply touching 
> it, you have to give it a good push, probably 1/8" before it makes 
> contact. It's probably not what you are looking for.
>
> On 20-Mar-09, at 7:48 PM, Seb Francis wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the replies so far ... but I should clarify: I'm looking 
>> for push buttons with a light pressure to activate.  I don't need 
>> them to light up.
>>
>> I think the ones Jason and Scott mentioned (Digikey EG1938-ND) 
>> require quite a strong push to turn them on (if this is the switch I 
>> think it is).
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>




From dave.leith at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 03:40:11 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:40:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking for the schematic for the Moog 901 VCO - not the 901 A, B
or C - I have these already in an old service manual. The 901 combines
them ( A B and C) and removes some of the redundant circuitry. Seems a
bit rare.......

Anyone able to help? I saw a remake of these here
http://www.moogmodular.com/9501/

Thanks Dave


From modcan at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar 21 05:17:03 2009
From: modcan at sympatico.ca (Bruce Duncan)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 00:17:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action
In-Reply-To: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>

Funny people are getting confused with the word light as in lightweight.
Wouldn't a momentary tactile switch do the job.
They are very cheap and come with a variety of cap options.
Mouser has lots of different styles.

http://ca.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=tactile+switch

Bruce



From asfi at eol.ca  Sat Mar 21 06:57:41 2009
From: asfi at eol.ca (Colin Hinz)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 01:57:41 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009, Bruce Duncan wrote:

> Funny people are getting confused with the word light as in lightweight.
> Wouldn't a momentary tactile switch do the job.
> They are very cheap and come with a variety of cap options.
> Mouser has lots of different styles.
>
> http://ca.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=tactile+switch

Interesting URL. Let's see.......YES! Mouser has figured out how to
ship to Canada. The previous time I checked their ordering info,
they only shipped by UPS, which is a non-starter due to the $40
(approx) of extra fees involved.

Not that I ought to be buying more parts, mind you.....

- Colin



From modcan at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar 21 07:15:10 2009
From: modcan at sympatico.ca (Bruce Duncan)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 02:15:10 -0400
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>

The real turn around from Mouser on shipping to Canada is it is now 
FREE on orders over $200.
And due to some weird glitch between FedEX and Mouser they don't 
charge any brokerage, GST or PST when it arrives.
A true anomaly when importing anything into Canada.

Bruce



At 01:57 AM 21/03/2009, you wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009, Bruce Duncan wrote:
>
>>Funny people are getting confused with the word light as in lightweight.
>>Wouldn't a momentary tactile switch do the job.
>>They are very cheap and come with a variety of cap options.
>>Mouser has lots of different styles.
>>
>>http://ca.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=tactile+switch
>
>Interesting URL. Let's see.......YES! Mouser has figured out how to
>ship to Canada. The previous time I checked their ordering info,
>they only shipped by UPS, which is a non-starter due to the $40
>(approx) of extra fees involved.
>
>Not that I ought to be buying more parts, mind you.....
>
>- Colin
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Sat Mar 21 07:42:29 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:42:29 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Oberheim DX
Message-ID: <7195D13A7A704CD5A8028B276831A9FE@OFFICE>

Hi,

Does anyone have the schematics for the Oberheim DX or can tell me the exact 
voltages required for the trigger inputs?
I know the DX uses an S-TRIG input but am not sure what the internal 
circuitry is and the manual says INVERTED?

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

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From daytona at verizon.net  Sat Mar 21 09:06:59 2009
From: daytona at verizon.net (TJ)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 03:06:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>

> I'm looking for the schematic for the Moog 901 VCO - not the 901 A, B
> or C - I have these already in an old service manual. The 901 combines
> them ( A B and C) and removes some of the redundant circuitry. Seems a
> bit rare.......
>
> Anyone able to help? I saw a remake of these here
> http://www.moogmodular.com/9501/
>
Hey Dave,
  It is difficult to see from those photos, but I have an old 1969 901  
here. It is simply just a 901A on the one side mounted upside down, so you  
can adjust the trimmers from the left. And a 901B on the other side, and  
there is no 901C involved. I'm not aware of any circuit differences, other  
than the front panel attenuators for the four waveforms? Perhaps you are  
thinking the 921 oscillator that has additional circuitry for the auxilary  
output section?
Terry


From kalotony at videotron.ca  Sat Mar 21 09:24:24 2009
From: kalotony at videotron.ca (Tony K)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 03:24:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Oberheim DX
In-Reply-To: <7195D13A7A704CD5A8028B276831A9FE@OFFICE>
References: <7195D13A7A704CD5A8028B276831A9FE@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <0KGU00GWWKN43O20@VL-MO-MR005.ip.videotron.ca>

IIRC it was the DMX not the DX/Stretch that had external trigger inputs (TTL ?)

Tony K

At 01:42 AM 3/21/2009, Laurie Biddulph wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone have the schematics for the Oberheim DX or can tell me 
>the exact voltages required for the trigger inputs?
>I know the DX uses an S-TRIG input but am not sure what the internal 
>circuitry is and the manual says INVERTED?



From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 09:55:55 2009
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 01:55:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Oberheim DX
In-Reply-To: <0KGU00GWWKN43O20@VL-MO-MR005.ip.videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <652649.20097.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


The regular DX has an assignable trigger input. The manuals says it'll take a switch trigger or 5V negative going pulse...

Doug

--- On Sat, 3/21/09, Tony K <kalotony at videotron.ca> wrote:

> From: Tony K <kalotony at videotron.ca>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Oberheim DX
> To: "Laurie Biddulph" <elby_designs at ozemail.com.au>, "Synth-Diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 1:24 AM
> IIRC it was the DMX not the DX/Stretch that had external
> trigger inputs (TTL ?)
> 
> Tony K
> 
> At 01:42 AM 3/21/2009, Laurie Biddulph wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >Does anyone have the schematics for the Oberheim DX or
> can tell me 
> >the exact voltages required for the trigger inputs?
> >I know the DX uses an S-TRIG input but am not sure what
> the internal 
> >circuitry is and the manual says INVERTED?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 21 12:19:58 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:19:58 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
In-Reply-To: <opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>
	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W56D808D8A00F7595B14F89C8940@phx.gbl>


Man those "moog music" moog modular re-issues have some of the most beautiful circuit boards i have ever seen....they look like they were really well made

anyone know the story on those or why Moog (the current moog) doesnt make those anymore?

thanks

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page





> To: dave.leith at gmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 03:06:59 -0500
> From: daytona at verizon.net
> CC: 
> 
>> I'm looking for the schematic for the Moog 901 VCO - not the 901 A, B
>> or C - I have these already in an old service manual. The 901 combines
>> them ( A B and C) and removes some of the redundant circuitry. Seems a
>> bit rare.......
>>
>> Anyone able to help? I saw a remake of these here
>> http://www.moogmodular.com/9501/
>>
> Hey Dave,
>   It is difficult to see from those photos, but I have an old 1969 901  
> here. It is simply just a 901A on the one side mounted upside down, so you  
> can adjust the trimmers from the left. And a 901B on the other side, and  
> there is no 901C involved. I'm not aware of any circuit differences, other  
> than the front panel attenuators for the four waveforms? Perhaps you are  
> thinking the 921 oscillator that has additional circuitry for the auxilary  
> output section?
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sat Mar 21 13:15:09 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:15:09 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C4DA4D.5020400@burnit.co.uk>

Bruce Duncan wrote:
> Wouldn't a momentary tactile switch do the job.
> They are very cheap and come with a variety of cap options.
> Mouser has lots of different styles.
>
> http://ca.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=tactile+switch
>

Yeah, I had considered tactile switches, but was looking for an easier 
way to panel mount that didn't involve mounting a PCB or piece of 
stripboard behind the panel.  But I guess I might end up doing just that 
if necessary to get the 'perfect' push button.  A lot of tactile switch 
caps do seem to be square, but since I'm likely going to get the panel 
made professionally this shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks,
Seb





From profpep at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 21 13:56:50 2009
From: profpep at hotmail.com (Mike)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:56:50 -0000
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk><BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl><Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>
	<BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY111-DAV7453975F6167E776F0ECCA1940@phx.gbl>



> The real turn around from Mouser on shipping to Canada is it is now
> FREE on orders over $200.
> And due to some weird glitch between FedEX and Mouser they don't
> charge any brokerage, GST or PST when it arrives.
> A true anomaly when importing anything into Canada.
>
> Bruce
Warning !

In the UK, they deliver and a VAT invoice arrives from FEDEX some time
later. I nearly got stung by this when doing a MIDIbox group bulk order: I
was just about to send out the invoices when they all went up by around 20%.
17.5% VAT and an admin fee which seems to be worked out on a fixed fee plus
a variable based on the number of different item lines.

Best for me were Digikey: the parts arrive and you pay just the VAT directly
to the driver on delivery.

Mouser have now set up a UK office, so the VAT thing will get better, I
hope.

||\/||ike



From geow at pacificcoast.net  Sat Mar 21 15:15:03 2009
From: geow at pacificcoast.net (George Welsh)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 07:15:03 -0700
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>
	<BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000601c9aa2f$6e8fc330$4baf4990$@net>

This is indeed true. I've taken advantage of the $200 deal to Canada from
Mouser and voila! It arrives quickly and with no GST, PST, a real turn
around from what things used to be like.

George

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Bruce Duncan
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:15 PM
To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)

The real turn around from Mouser on shipping to Canada is it is now 
FREE on orders over $200.
And due to some weird glitch between FedEX and Mouser they don't 
charge any brokerage, GST or PST when it arrives.
A true anomaly when importing anything into Canada.

Bruce



At 01:57 AM 21/03/2009, you wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009, Bruce Duncan wrote:
>
>>Funny people are getting confused with the word light as in lightweight.
>>Wouldn't a momentary tactile switch do the job.
>>They are very cheap and come with a variety of cap options.
>>Mouser has lots of different styles.
>>
>>http://ca.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=tactile+switch
>
>Interesting URL. Let's see.......YES! Mouser has figured out how to
>ship to Canada. The previous time I checked their ordering info,
>they only shipped by UPS, which is a non-starter due to the $40
>(approx) of extra fees involved.
>
>Not that I ought to be buying more parts, mind you.....
>
>- Colin
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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19:01:00



From dave.leith at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 16:00:12 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:00:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
In-Reply-To: <opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>
	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Terry  and thanks for the response

hmmm..wish I had that module to look at :-)

just got pictures and schematics and old catalogs..

however it seems the 901A has:
the switched (semitones) and 0 to 2 variable voltage for tuning
901B has
switched Lo to 2 foot plus a frequency vernier of 0 to 10.
When they are put together as a 901 there are only the 3 controls not
4 (which makes sense) of  switched  (semitones), switched Lo to 2
foot, and 0 to 2 variable voltage for fine tuning. The additional
frequency vernier of 0 - 10 (dual 10K pot) is missing as the
oscillator is no longer part of a bank and would not need to be offset
from another VCOs within the bank.
So it is the circuitry for the 901B frequency vernier that seems to be
missing and small changes are made to accommodate this - well that's
how it looks on the remakes on the site link above. The schematics for
the 901A/B do not indicate how the dual 10K pot is omitted.  Maybe the
original 901's were wired different and just left the extra parts on
the board? Not quite sure how they would bypass the function of the
dual 10K - that's what I'm looking for.

Dave


On 3/21/09, TJ <daytona at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for the schematic for the Moog 901 VCO - not the 901 A, B
> > or C - I have these already in an old service manual. The 901 combines
> > them ( A B and C) and removes some of the redundant circuitry. Seems a
> > bit rare.......
> >
> > Anyone able to help? I saw a remake of these here
> > http://www.moogmodular.com/9501/
> >
> >
>  Hey Dave,
>   It is difficult to see from those photos, but I have an old 1969 901 here.
> It is simply just a 901A on the one side mounted upside down, so you can
> adjust the trimmers from the left. And a 901B on the other side, and there
> is no 901C involved. I'm not aware of any circuit differences, other than
> the front panel attenuators for the four waveforms? Perhaps you are thinking
> the 921 oscillator that has additional circuitry for the auxilary output
> section?
>  Terry
>


From dave.leith at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 16:12:35 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:12:35 -0700
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV7453975F6167E776F0ECCA1940@phx.gbl>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>
	<BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
	<BAY111-DAV7453975F6167E776F0ECCA1940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903210812t5fe67553y5edf126ff185d4ad@mail.gmail.com>

I live in Canada and I've never had "late" tax bills from Allied
(Cancon service,) Digikey (and now Mouser ) with this service. It
seems that they are internally handling the brokerage. I had figured
the US Canada free trade agreement was responsible for this. All the
above companies do charge the required Canadian GST and PST.

I did ask Allied what their service called CANCON was. Here's their response:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
HI David

Cancon is our custom cleared with no broker fees. It is shipped to you
direct from our warehouse in Texas.

The cost is $12.00 to ship to you.

thanks
---------------------------------------------------------
On 3/21/09, Mike <profpep at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  > The real turn around from Mouser on shipping to Canada is it is now
>  > FREE on orders over $200.
>  > And due to some weird glitch between FedEX and Mouser they don't
>  > charge any brokerage, GST or PST when it arrives.
>  > A true anomaly when importing anything into Canada.
>  >
>  > Bruce
>
> Warning !
>
>  In the UK, they deliver and a VAT invoice arrives from FEDEX some time
>  later. I nearly got stung by this when doing a MIDIbox group bulk order: I
>  was just about to send out the invoices when they all went up by around 20%.
>  17.5% VAT and an admin fee which seems to be worked out on a fixed fee plus
>  a variable based on the number of different item lines.
>
>  Best for me were Digikey: the parts arrive and you pay just the VAT directly
>  to the driver on delivery.
>
>  Mouser have now set up a UK office, so the VAT thing will get better, I
>  hope.
>
>  ||\/||ike
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Synth-diy mailing list
>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From dave.leith at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 16:21:41 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:21:41 -0700
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903210812t5fe67553y5edf126ff185d4ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>
	<BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
	<BAY111-DAV7453975F6167E776F0ECCA1940@phx.gbl>
	<eaacbb730903210812t5fe67553y5edf126ff185d4ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903210821i4aafc74en4bc280f3f191d55d@mail.gmail.com>

oops, well actually the last weeks Digikey invoice had only the GST
charged. No PST as I guess they have no provincial office (don't shoot
me I'm not a tax expert - just looking at the invoices. The Fedex
invoice from Mouser (pre the new free over 200$) shows the customs
rate set at 0.0 %

On 3/21/09, Dave Leith <dave.leith at gmail.com> wrote:
> I live in Canada and I've never had "late" tax bills from Allied
>  (Cancon service,) Digikey (and now Mouser ) with this service. It
>  seems that they are internally handling the brokerage. I had figured
>  the US Canada free trade agreement was responsible for this. All the
>  above companies do charge the required Canadian GST and PST.
>
>  I did ask Allied what their service called CANCON was. Here's their response:
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------
>  HI David
>
>  Cancon is our custom cleared with no broker fees. It is shipped to you
>  direct from our warehouse in Texas.
>
>  The cost is $12.00 to ship to you.
>
>  thanks
>  ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 3/21/09, Mike <profpep at hotmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  >  > The real turn around from Mouser on shipping to Canada is it is now
>  >  > FREE on orders over $200.
>  >  > And due to some weird glitch between FedEX and Mouser they don't
>  >  > charge any brokerage, GST or PST when it arrives.
>  >  > A true anomaly when importing anything into Canada.
>  >  >
>  >  > Bruce
>  >
>  > Warning !
>  >
>  >  In the UK, they deliver and a VAT invoice arrives from FEDEX some time
>  >  later. I nearly got stung by this when doing a MIDIbox group bulk order: I
>  >  was just about to send out the invoices when they all went up by around 20%.
>  >  17.5% VAT and an admin fee which seems to be worked out on a fixed fee plus
>  >  a variable based on the number of different item lines.
>  >
>  >  Best for me were Digikey: the parts arrive and you pay just the VAT directly
>  >  to the driver on delivery.
>  >
>  >  Mouser have now set up a UK office, so the VAT thing will get better, I
>  >  hope.
>  >
>  >  ||\/||ike
>  >
>  >
>  >  _______________________________________________
>  >  Synth-diy mailing list
>  >  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  >  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>  >
>


From james at ticalun.net  Sat Mar 21 16:24:05 2009
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:24:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] test
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
	<eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01e601c9aa39$13096390$391c2ab0$@net>

Test...

For some reason, none of my posts are going through...

James R. Coplin



From james at ticalun.net  Sat Mar 21 17:24:05 2009
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:24:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
	<eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>

So, I?m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and ground paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the wallwart supply?

James R. Coplin




From music.maker at gte.net  Sat Mar 21 17:39:02 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:39:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
Message-ID: <200903211639.n2LGd1uF028584@linux7.lan>

"James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
>So, I???m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project 
>and I want to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries. 
>The power supply delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground. I guess 
>I never thought about it as I always just use the power supply 
>for my modular so voltage and ground paths are always there. What 
>do I do to provide a ground with the wallwart supply? 
>

Hi James,

I am assuming you're referring to a signal ground?  In all of the
wallwart powered circuits I've used, one side of the DC power supply is
picked as ground.  If it's a dual supply made with 2 halfwave
rectifiers, then the zero volt point is ground.  If it's a single
supply, the "appliance" should have a signal ground that is called out
in the schematic.  This signal ground will almost always be connected
to one side of the supply.  The only exception I can think of is a
circuit which uses a single supply, but provides a signal ground by
implementing a virtual ground.  In that case, the virtual ground is the
signal ground.  Regardless of whether it's a virtual ground or a power
supply zero volts point or simply one rail of a single supply, the
signal ground can be the earth ground too because we're talking about a
system that is isolated with a transformer.  I suppose that it's always
possible to have a wallwart with a 3 pin mains side where the ground
pin is connected to one side of the secondary, but that is easy to
discover with an ohm meter.

Of course, if I'm full of kaka, someone here will educate me (c:



-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 18:10:37 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:10:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
Message-ID: <590664.28401.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


There's a page for this on Ray's site:

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php

Some math (+9 + -9 = 0), wiring, and caution will get you where you need to be.


_Kyle

--- On Sat, 3/21/09, James R. Coplin <james at ticalun.net> wrote:

> From: James R. Coplin <james at ticalun.net>
> Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
> To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 9:24 AM
> So, I?m helping a friend finish up
> his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want to run it off of a 9v
> wall wart instead of batteries.? The power supply
> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.? I guess I
> never thought about it as I always just use the power supply
> for my modular so voltage and ground paths are always
> there.? What do I do to provide a ground with the
> wallwart supply?
> 
> James R. Coplin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      



From blacet at blacet.com  Sat Mar 21 18:17:05 2009
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Best Quality 3.5mm Plugs?
In-Reply-To: <021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>
	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
	<eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
	<021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>
Message-ID: <43db6d10be1e487220f04309c77a1984.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>

Hi All:

We've just restocked our patch cable kit stock with our custom made 3.5mm
metal plugs. These are the highest quality we have ever seen! The kit
includes everything you need to make 5 color coded cables and is a bargain
at $13. (Compare the cost of 10 typical metal plugs at over $10.)

http://www.blacet.com/misc.html

Order Here:

http://www.blacet.com/store2.html


-- 
John Blacet



From igg.debus at t-online.de  Sat Mar 21 18:30:03 2009
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:30:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Foot Pedal Enclosure
In-Reply-To: <A53CD285-98FD-4DE6-91D1-81EACF1A054A@blauwurf.info>
References: <A53CD285-98FD-4DE6-91D1-81EACF1A054A@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <5FE43CEE-6FF4-48AD-B83E-155BB3F596A6@t-online.de>


Am 17.03.2009 um 09:13 schrieb Michael Zacherl.:

> Anyone knows of an european source for such pedals?

Bespeco.

Ingo


From raywilson at comcast.net  Sat Mar 21 20:33:30 2009
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:33:30 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net><eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
	<021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>
Message-ID: <8549E5D9E8FB4F05AA0DFFFBAB2EBA12@RaymondLabPC>

Hi James

The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is relative 
to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of 
the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply 
output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to 
"earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart which 
is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the 
plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of 
it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all you 
can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the 
secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the 
secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.

The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php

Hope this helps.

Ray Wilson


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?


> So, I?m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want 
> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply 
> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it 
> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and ground 
> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the 
> wallwart supply?
>
> James R. Coplin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From james at ticalun.net  Sat Mar 21 20:56:16 2009
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:56:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <8549E5D9E8FB4F05AA0DFFFBAB2EBA12@RaymondLabPC>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net><eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
	<021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>
	<8549E5D9E8FB4F05AA0DFFFBAB2EBA12@RaymondLabPC>
Message-ID: <027401c9aa5f$18e5acd0$4ab10670$@net>

What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I already have a supply with +/-9v DC. 

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net] 
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:34 PM
To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

Hi James

The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is relative 
to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of 
the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply 
output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to 
"earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart which 
is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the 
plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of 
it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all you 
can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the 
secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the 
secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.

The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php

Hope this helps.

Ray Wilson


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?


> So, I?m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want 
> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply 
> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it 
> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and ground 
> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the 
> wallwart supply?
>
> James R. Coplin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 




From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Sat Mar 21 20:56:28 2009
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:56:28 +0000
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>
	<BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F92FFEE8-C43E-4618-9B12-CFA2F76F2CEF@blueyonder.co.uk>

Another thing that may not be common knowledge is that Mouser have  
followed in the
footsteps of Digikey and started a UK operation to compete with the  
likes of RS and Farnell.

Graham

On 21 Mar 2009, at 06:15, Bruce Duncan wrote:

> The real turn around from Mouser on shipping to Canada is it is now  
> FREE on orders over $200.
> And due to some weird glitch between FedEX and Mouser they don't  
> charge any brokerage, GST or PST when it arrives.
> A true anomaly when importing anything into Canada.
>
> Bruce




From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Sat Mar 21 21:31:53 2009
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:31:53 +0100
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-DAV7453975F6167E776F0ECCA1940@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
	<BAY111-DAV7453975F6167E776F0ECCA1940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20090321203153.GC3107@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2009-03-21 12:56 -0000, Mike wrote:
> 
> > The real turn around from Mouser on shipping to Canada is it is now
> > FREE on orders over $200.
> > And due to some weird glitch between FedEX and Mouser they don't
> > charge any brokerage, GST or PST when it arrives.
> > A true anomaly when importing anything into Canada.
>
> Warning !
> 
> In the UK, they deliver and a VAT invoice arrives from FEDEX
> some time later. I nearly got stung by this when doing a MIDIbox
> group bulk order: I was just about to send out the invoices when
> they all went up by around 20%.  17.5% VAT and an admin fee

Likewise in France (only here, the billing is handled by Coface
for added unpleasantness).

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From andreas at wetterberg.dk  Sat Mar 21 21:36:32 2009
From: andreas at wetterberg.dk (Andreas Wetterberg)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:36:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Re: Mouser
In-Reply-To: <F92FFEE8-C43E-4618-9B12-CFA2F76F2CEF@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>	<BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
	<F92FFEE8-C43E-4618-9B12-CFA2F76F2CEF@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49C54FD0.9090603@wetterberg.dk>

Does that mean that european orders won't be slapped with duties coming 
from the US?

I guess this question goes for both Mouser and Digikey... I've often 
wondered that since they started having those sort of regional divisions 
on their websites, showing prices in euros and what not.

cheers.
Andreas.

Graham Atkins skrev:
> Another thing that may not be common knowledge is that Mouser have 
> followed in the
> footsteps of Digikey and started a UK operation to compete with the 
> likes of RS and Farnell.
>
> Graham
>
> On 21 Mar 2009, at 06:15, Bruce Duncan wrote:
>
>> The real turn around from Mouser on shipping to Canada is it is now 
>> FREE on orders over $200.
>> And due to some weird glitch between FedEX and Mouser they don't 
>> charge any brokerage, GST or PST when it arrives.
>> A true anomaly when importing anything into Canada.
>>
>> Bruce
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> .
>



From blacet at blacet.com  Sat Mar 21 21:43:48 2009
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <027401c9aa5f$18e5acd0$4ab10670$@net>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>
	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net><eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
	<021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>
	<8549E5D9E8FB4F05AA0DFFFBAB2EBA12@RaymondLabPC>
	<027401c9aa5f$18e5acd0$4ab10670$@net>
Message-ID: <436c1126d7bcef6d781995cb03000f81.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>

--How many wires are coming out of the wart?

If it is only two, then you just have a 9V supply. To have +/-, you would
need *three* wires and one of them is common.

> What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it
> up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to
> get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I
> already have a supply with +/-9v DC.
>
> James R. Coplin
-- 
John Blacet



From daytona at verizon.net  Sat Mar 21 22:04:35 2009
From: daytona at verizon.net (TJ)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:04:35 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W56D808D8A00F7595B14F89C8940@phx.gbl>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>
	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
	<BAY144-W56D808D8A00F7595B14F89C8940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <opuq5t5xg81z7pau@mail.verizon.net>



>
> Man those "moog music" moog modular re-issues have some of the most  
> beautiful circuit boards i have ever seen....they look like they were  
> really well made
>
> anyone know the story on those or why Moog (the current moog) doesnt  
> make those anymore?
>
Could be the CA3019 on the 901's were difficult to source? If some one  
remade the circuit boards, I would buy a few of each.
  So if anyone is interested, I put a few pics of the 901 pulled out from  
the Moog. Click on the 901 photos for a higher rez pic.
The particular Moog 1P was resurected by me. It was stored for many years  
in someones attic, and did not see much action in it's life. After a  
recap, refurb, and retune, it sounds great. I replaced as few parts as  
possible and rather than installing new pots, knobs, jacks, I took the  
recycled route, so it's 98% original! Amazingly the 905 reverb still had  
the factory ties on the spring. I guess the studio in Manhatten, NY did  
not get to it? Build date on the on the 910 is Aug. 11, 1969. A couple of  
days before Woodstock, and a week or so after man had just stepped on the  
moon. A blast from the past!

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6s1hi/moog1p/

Terry


From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Sat Mar 21 22:12:46 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:12:46 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] test
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net><eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
	<01e601c9aa39$13096390$391c2ab0$@net>
Message-ID: <6219719101B443CE97B1C21ED3485598@OFFICE>

Make sure you are sending posts in TEXT/PLAIN mode and not FORMATED/HTML 
mode

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
for the addressee only.
If you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or 
otherwise use it, or any part of it, in any form whatsoever. If you have 
received this e-mail in error please notify the sender and ensure that all 
copies of this e-mail and any files transmitted with it are deleted.
Any views or opinions represented in this e-mail are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Elby Designs.
Although this e-mail and its attachments have been scanned for the presence 
of computer viruses, Elby Designs will not be liable for any losses as a 
result of any viruses being passed on.

Please consider the environment before printing this email

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 2:24 AM
Subject: [sdiy] test


> Test...
>
> For some reason, none of my posts are going through...
>
> James R. Coplin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From Scott at scottwick.com  Sat Mar 21 22:37:12 2009
From: Scott at scottwick.com (Scott)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:37:12 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 3.5mm open fram jacks
Message-ID: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032C9E@sol.wick.stl>

Does anyone have a good source for 3.5mm (1/8inch) open frame, panel mount, mono switched jacks?    I used to buy bags full at a surplus store, but they no longer carry them.  I need about 100 of them, and really don't want to pay Mouser prices! (about 6x more than the surplus ones)

thanks!



From dave.leith at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 22:45:14 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:45:14 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 3.5mm open fram jacks
In-Reply-To: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032C9E@sol.wick.stl>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032C9E@sol.wick.stl>
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903211445k45f77175g76968532ed7142a2@mail.gmail.com>

I just bought 100 - 42A Switchcraft from Allied - it was the best
price I could find @ $1.93 when you 100.

Mfr Part#:  42A  Allied Stock#: 932-1005

<http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=9321005&MPN=42A&R=9321005&SEARCH=9321005&DESC=42A>

On 3/21/09, Scott <Scott at scottwick.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have a good source for 3.5mm (1/8inch) open frame, panel mount, mono switched jacks?    I used to buy bags full at a surplus store, but they no longer carry them.  I need about 100 of them, and really don't want to pay Mouser prices! (about 6x more than the surplus ones)
>
>  thanks!
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Synth-diy mailing list
>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From Scott at scottwick.com  Sat Mar 21 23:52:58 2009
From: Scott at scottwick.com (Scott)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:52:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] 3.5mm open fram jacks
In-Reply-To: <87441170903211525k48bc5d7r7c632c2088b740a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032C9E@sol.wick.stl>
	<87441170903211525k48bc5d7r7c632c2088b740a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032C9F@sol.wick.stl>

Thanks,
I hadn't found those.  Everything I was finding was over a dollar.  I was paying 30 cents per jack, but they were low quality.  1 in 15 didn't work.
I think I'll take your advice and go for the Kobicons.

________________________________________
From: Tim Parkhurst [mailto:tim.parkhurst at gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:25 PM
To: Scott
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] 3.5mm open fram jacks

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Scott <Scott at scottwick.com> wrote:
Does anyone have a good source for 3.5mm (1/8inch) open frame, panel mount, mono switched jacks? ? ?I used to buy bags full at a surplus store, but they no longer carry them. ?I need about 100 of them, and really don't want to pay Mouser prices! (about 6x more than the surplus ones)

thanks!

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
?
?
I'd say for a reasonably good quality jack, the Kobicon jacks from Mouser are pretty good. They're available with either a knurled nut or a hex nut, I've never had one fail, and they're about 83 cents if you buy ten or more (and about 75 cents if you buy 100). There are cheaper jacks out there, but you may want to think about whether they're durable enough. Nothing takes the joy out of saving money on cheap parts like having to replace them after a few months of use. ;-) Panel jacks, pots, and switches are one place where you probably don't want to go with the cheapest you can find. Otherwise, you might try Futurlec or All Electronics. I bought some of the cheap jacks from Futurlec, but I wasn't real happy with them. They felt "cheap" and not as solid as the Kobicons, and they were still 40 cents.

Tim (cheap, but I have my limits) Servo
-- 
"Sire, the church of God is an anvil that has worn out many hammers." - H.L. Hastings



From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Sun Mar 22 01:07:04 2009
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:07:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] 3.5mm open fram jacks
In-Reply-To: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032C9E@sol.wick.stl>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032C9E@sol.wick.stl>
Message-ID: <20090322000704.GV25810@moo.sysabend.org>

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 04:37:12PM -0500, Scott wrote:
> Does anyone have a good source for 3.5mm (1/8inch) open frame, panel mount, mono switched jacks?    I used to buy bags full at a surplus store, but they no longer carry them.  I need about 100 of them, and really don't want to pay Mouser prices! (about 6x more than the surplus ones)
> 

I use the Kobiconns.  Be warned, the ones with "Hex dress nut" no longer
come with washer even thought the catalog says they do.  This makes me very
sad...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From cary.roberts at retrosynth.net  Sun Mar 22 02:26:04 2009
From: cary.roberts at retrosynth.net (Cary Roberts)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:26:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
Message-ID: <1D1108CCA9CD44DBA7ADE8324C9B871B@onlive.corp>

>hmmm..wish I had that module to look at :-)

It's entirely possible that the person who owns those modules is a list
member and will provide some higher resolution images. :)

http://www.moogmodular.com/orig/IMG_5241.jpg

http://www.moogmodular.com/orig/IMG_5243.jpg


-Cary





From synth1 at airmail.net  Sun Mar 22 02:43:49 2009
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:43:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
References: <1D1108CCA9CD44DBA7ADE8324C9B871B@onlive.corp>
Message-ID: <409BADB011E740DCBE65F11E9E414FFC@curley>

> http://www.moogmodular.com/orig/IMG_5241.jpg
>
> http://www.moogmodular.com/orig/IMG_5243.jpg
>

What is sad is that for all the time and effort that obviously went into 
this module, they used the WORLD'S CRAPPIEST TRIMMERS, those open-frame CTS 
pieces of s---t. Good grief, why not use a Bourns 3386P that costs a 
*staggering* 71 cents more?

Oh.....it alters the 'secret sauce' and then it just would not sound the 
same (cough). Since Moog used them, that means they *had to*, right? Makes 
perfect sense, no? The fact the 3386P trim pot didn't come out until 1978 
has nothing to do with Bob's original choice :) I'm positive Bob would have 
told himself  "Got to use those CTS ones, the silver oxide build-up over 
time, coupled with the carbon element's moisture absorption altering the 
resistance 15% over time is JUST what I need!"

Paul S.



From asfi at eol.ca  Sun Mar 22 04:48:29 2009
From: asfi at eol.ca (Colin Hinz)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:48:29 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903210812t5fe67553y5edf126ff185d4ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>
	<BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
	<BAY111-DAV7453975F6167E776F0ECCA1940@phx.gbl>
	<eaacbb730903210812t5fe67553y5edf126ff185d4ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903212341500.2092@p4-1>

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009, Dave Leith wrote:

> I live in Canada and I've never had "late" tax bills from Allied
> (Cancon service,) Digikey (and now Mouser ) with this service. It
> seems that they are internally handling the brokerage. I had figured
> the US Canada free trade agreement was responsible for this. All the
> above companies do charge the required Canadian GST and PST.

I received a bill once from DHL, back when I ordered a Xilinx
development kit, and this would've been OK if the DHL people could
be bothered to pay attention to the tariff codes on the commercial
invoice. But nooooo, they classified the kit as "fabricated metal
parts" or similar idiocy which cost me a few pennies in completely
spurious duty. To my misfortune I rapidly grew bored with fighting
their stupid mistake and just paid the darned thing.

Conversely, that's pretty convenient with Mouser et al. Too bad I'm
not in much market for parts right now.....

- Colin



From asfi at eol.ca  Sun Mar 22 04:50:58 2009
From: asfi at eol.ca (Colin Hinz)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:50:58 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: Mouser (was: Re: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action)
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903210150310.3880@p4-1>
	<BLU0-SMTP606C0321979146C6A333B0BB940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903212348400.2092@p4-1>

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009, Bruce Duncan wrote:

> The real turn around from Mouser on shipping to Canada is it is now FREE on 
> orders over $200.
> And due to some weird glitch between FedEX and Mouser they don't charge any 
> brokerage, GST or PST when it arrives.
> A true anomaly when importing anything into Canada.

That's interesting, considering the fine print on Mouser's website
claims that when using FedEx there will be brokerage fees etc.
But I guess the difference lies with the pre-paid taxes, which
essentially obviates the need for customs to get involved.

- Colin



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 22 07:09:49 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 06:09:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] trying to get my scope to see CHAOS??
Message-ID: <BAY144-W18601707DEDA561E4F6B4DC8950@phx.gbl>


this is mainly a question I think Ian (the creator of the module I am using right now) might be able to answer, BUT just on the chance somebody else is checking the list at this hour, i figured i'd throw it out here. 

I REALLY want to get the kind of results from the jerkster that ian is getting in these scope shots:

http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/ch_cir2.htm


SO...i connected X to channel A of my scope. And Y to channel B.

I put my scope in the right mode....all i get is a square, or a dot that moves in an very strange trace...like it is slowly drawing something out with the dot...sometimes a loop. i wonder if Ian has a special scope that allows the path of the dot to STAY on the screen as it traces out the weird shape?

but alas....my scope isnt doing much but a dot or a square.

Not nearly as cool as what Ian has posted.

do i need to AMPLIFY the signals before they come into the scope?

do i need to turn my probes to X10 or something? 

I dont have too much experience with using the scope in X/Y mode.

Right now my scope is set to:

Input A ( for this application should this be set to DC or AC?) is set to .5 volts/cm
Input B (ac or dc?) is set to .2

it is a B and K 1477 scope.

and you put it into X/y mode by setting the sweep time knob to CHANNEL B


THANKS SO MUCH!!


--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page






From dlmanley at sonic.net  Sun Mar 22 08:03:41 2009
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:03:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] trying to get my scope to see CHAOS??
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W18601707DEDA561E4F6B4DC8950@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W18601707DEDA561E4F6B4DC8950@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C5E2CD.3080807@sonic.net>

Dan Snazelle wrote:
> this is mainly a question I think Ian (the creator of the module I am using right now) might be able to answer, BUT just on the chance somebody else is checking the list at this hour, i figured i'd throw it out here. 
>
> I REALLY want to get the kind of results from the jerkster that ian is getting in these scope shots:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/ch_cir2.htm
>
>
> SO...i connected X to channel A of my scope. And Y to channel B.
>
> I put my scope in the right mode....all i get is a square, or a dot that moves in an very strange trace...like it is slowly drawing something out with the dot...sometimes a loop. i wonder if Ian has a special scope that allows the path of the dot to STAY on the screen as it traces out the weird shape?
>   
If the dot is slowly drawing something, it sounds like everything is 
working properly, but the chaotic input signals are just changing slowly.

Put the scope into normal sweep mode, and look at either signal.  How 
slowly are they changing?  Adjust the rate of the Jerkster's outputs so 
that it is oscillating (or more correctly, chaotically varying) 
quickly.  I don't know what the max rate at which the Jerkster will 
'oscillate'. Set the gain on each input channel so that the signal 
amplitude fills the screen.  Then switch back to XY mode.  Does it look 
better?  You may need to play with the gain and offset for each channel 
to center the figure.  This may not be the way you want to use the 
circuit for audio/synth use, but is better for pretty XY-mode pictures.  
You want the time for the circuit to complete an 'orbit' to be fast with 
regard to the persistence of the scope, or another method would be to 
use a camera with a long exposure time.

Also, to answer your other question, some scopes have an 'infinite 
persistence' mode where the trace doesn't fade until you clear it.  This 
mode works better on modern digital scopes than it ever did even on the 
best, old Tektronix analog scopes.

-Dave


From dbarton at pacbell.net  Sun Mar 22 08:59:46 2009
From: dbarton at pacbell.net (db)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:59:46 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] usb power?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>


I want to power some lights from my laptop. These lights are a bank of 25 
leds, designed to run at 4.5 volts

How can I tell how many of these are ok to power from usb?

I'm guessing a usb hard drive pulls more current than even 100 LEDs, no?

dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]





From loscha at gmail.com  Sun Mar 22 09:12:20 2009
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:12:20 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] usb power?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <17035a3d0903220112y25c1f17bm62cbaf5fc6940c20@mail.gmail.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power
"A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and was raised to 150 mA
in USB 3.0"

 Stick to around 100 mA and you should be sweet.

-ErJ

On 3/22/09, db <dbarton at pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>  I want to power some lights from my laptop. These lights are a bank of 25
> leds, designed to run at 4.5 volts
>
>  How can I tell how many of these are ok to power from usb?
>
>  I'm guessing a usb hard drive pulls more current than even 100 LEDs, no?
>
>  dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Synth-diy mailing list
>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


-- 
www.loscha.com


From cary.roberts at retrosynth.net  Sun Mar 22 09:17:31 2009
From: cary.roberts at retrosynth.net (Cary Roberts)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:17:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
In-Reply-To: <409BADB011E740DCBE65F11E9E414FFC@curley>
References: <1D1108CCA9CD44DBA7ADE8324C9B871B@onlive.corp>
	<409BADB011E740DCBE65F11E9E414FFC@curley>
Message-ID: <F55E8D58092148119770DCFC8C9AA72B@onlive.corp>

>What is sad is that for all the time and effort that
>obviously went into this module, they used the WORLD'S
>CRAPPIEST TRIMMERS, those open-frame CTS pieces of s---t.
>Good grief, why not use a Bourns 3386P that costs a
>*staggering* 71 cents more?

Maybe Don Martin and team didn't know how to re-engineer, only to copy?  Or
maybe they were trying to be true to the original.  Considering the lack of
moral fiber that Don Martin had, at least he didn't always take stabs at the
competition.

-Cary



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 22 09:23:33 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:23:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] trying to get my scope to see CHAOS??
In-Reply-To: <49C5E2CD.3080807@sonic.net>
References: <BAY144-W18601707DEDA561E4F6B4DC8950@phx.gbl>
	<49C5E2CD.3080807@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W25C4BD024C1275DA5B16E9C8950@phx.gbl>


ok..... I was thrown off because in a previous comment Ian had suggested I run the jerkster at lower rates to achieve the best results for chaotic behavior.

oddly
the scope seems to work best with the Z and X outs


I am wondering if possible i switched the labeling of the Z and Y.

would this make a huge difference Ian?


there is still a lot i am trying to learn about these strange and beautiful modules



thanks guys







--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:03:41 -0700
> From: dlmanley at sonic.net
> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com
> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] trying to get my scope to see CHAOS??
>
> Dan Snazelle wrote:
>> this is mainly a question I think Ian (the creator of the module I am using right now) might be able to answer, BUT just on the chance somebody else is checking the list at this hour, i figured i'd throw it out here.
>>
>> I REALLY want to get the kind of results from the jerkster that ian is getting in these scope shots:
>>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/ch_cir2.htm
>>
>>
>> SO...i connected X to channel A of my scope. And Y to channel B.
>>
>> I put my scope in the right mode....all i get is a square, or a dot that moves in an very strange trace...like it is slowly drawing something out with the dot...sometimes a loop. i wonder if Ian has a special scope that allows the path of the dot to STAY on the screen as it traces out the weird shape?
>>
> If the dot is slowly drawing something, it sounds like everything is
> working properly, but the chaotic input signals are just changing slowly.
>
> Put the scope into normal sweep mode, and look at either signal. How
> slowly are they changing? Adjust the rate of the Jerkster's outputs so
> that it is oscillating (or more correctly, chaotically varying)
> quickly. I don't know what the max rate at which the Jerkster will
> 'oscillate'. Set the gain on each input channel so that the signal
> amplitude fills the screen. Then switch back to XY mode. Does it look
> better? You may need to play with the gain and offset for each channel
> to center the figure. This may not be the way you want to use the
> circuit for audio/synth use, but is better for pretty XY-mode pictures.
> You want the time for the circuit to complete an 'orbit' to be fast with
> regard to the persistence of the scope, or another method would be to
> use a camera with a long exposure time.
>
> Also, to answer your other question, some scopes have an 'infinite
> persistence' mode where the trace doesn't fade until you clear it. This
> mode works better on modern digital scopes than it ever did even on the
> best, old Tektronix analog scopes.
>
> -Dave



From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Sun Mar 22 09:24:52 2009
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:24:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] usb power?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <66989A9506070B43A3B606F3009CB90A67160222D9@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

Normally every USB 1.1 and 2.0 port should be able to deliver 100mA - even Port on an USB Hub.
Especially ports on the root hub and ports on active hubs can normally deliver 500mA.
Under USB a device should normally tell the PC that a higher current is needed (and also tells the value)
but only a few PCs take really care of it as the special USB power controllers that can control and check the 
USB power cost some money...

Most motherboards simply have silicon fuses (from Littelfuse, bellfuse)
that make a self healing fuse in case of a shortcut to GND. You can see them as little green rectangles on 
your motherboard (normally 1X1 is written on them).

So in most cases you can source 500mA out of a (active) USB port even if no device is "enumerated".

Ciao
Peter


http://www.ullrich.at.tt

________________________________________
Von: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] im Auftrag von db [dbarton at pacbell.net]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. M?rz 2009 08:59
An: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Betreff: [sdiy] usb power?

I want to power some lights from my laptop. These lights are a bank of 25
leds, designed to run at 4.5 volts

How can I tell how many of these are ok to power from usb?

I'm guessing a usb hard drive pulls more current than even 100 LEDs, no?

dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From lofideadbeat at gmail.com  Sun Mar 22 09:55:57 2009
From: lofideadbeat at gmail.com (Dead Beat)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:55:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] White noise generator
In-Reply-To: <b5d643910903211332m399a80abwcf08cb47227f2e71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5d643910903211332m399a80abwcf08cb47227f2e71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b5d643910903220155v6fe62e50o4dc5d6c60d3bad31@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everybody !!

Kind new in building analog synths and things, i'd like to know if
somebody could help me : I'd like to build a simple white noise
generator, which could be used like a single part.
Is it possible to build a noise generator using white, pink and others noise ?
Maybe it's stupid question.... Thanks for the help !!
DeadBeat


From mbedtom at gmail.com  Sun Mar 22 10:12:19 2009
From: mbedtom at gmail.com (Tom Farrand)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:12:19 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] usb power?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e85a944f0903220212x306cec1fv2841743c35baceb5@mail.gmail.com>

For the USB ports that are out there now (USB 2.0) the current limit
is 100mA until enumeration has completed.  "Enumeration" requires some
smarts in whatever is connected to the USB port.  The "smarts" ( a
processor of some sort) tells the USB interface how much current is
wanted.  This, in theory, is granted in 100mA chunks up to a limit of
500mA.  Without the "smarts" the current is supposed to be limited to
100mA.

Realistically, I have found that some computers are happy to supply up
to 500mA without enumeration of any description.  Some Dell machines
do this, though my sample is way too limited to make any claim of
universality in this regard.

>From your numbers of 25 LEDs and 4.5V, I can only guess you want some
white LEDs and intend to suck the maximum of 500mA.  Is that correct?
You can probably get away with that ... mostly.  If you are sucking
this current from a laptop computer, you might get away with it.  If
you are trying to get this from an unpowered hub .... I would suggest
that you not try this.  Use a powered hub.  In fact, I would suggest
that you use a powered hub in all cases where current of this
magnitude is consumed.  USB ports are "supposed" to be protected from
excessive current consumption.  Not all computers are compliant and it
might be quite difficult to find out which and which are not.  While
designing a medical product where I needed to suck the 500mA maximum,
I found that my development computer was quite happy to provide in
excess of 500mA without enumeration.  Yikes!  That surprised me but I
built the smarts into my product to politely ask for 500mA and error
out if for some reason this power level was not "approved" by the host
computer

How important is this to you?  Why can't you use a wall wart power
supply (or batteries for that matter) to light up the LEDs?  Get an
LED flashlight!  In short, without knowing more detail it is difficult
to guess at your limitations and why other possibilities are not
viable.  I would look for other solutions.  Then again, I would be
upset if I smoked a laptop ... maybe you are not worried about that
possible outcome.

Peace.
Tom Farrand


If one is just wanting to suck power from the

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:59 AM, db <dbarton at pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> I want to power some lights from my laptop. These lights are a bank of 25 leds, designed to run at 4.5 volts
>
> How can I tell how many of these are ok to power from usb?
>
> I'm guessing a usb hard drive pulls more current than even 100 LEDs, no?
>
> dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sun Mar 22 11:50:38 2009
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:50:38 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] White noise generator
In-Reply-To: <b5d643910903220155v6fe62e50o4dc5d6c60d3bad31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5d643910903211332m399a80abwcf08cb47227f2e71@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5d643910903220155v6fe62e50o4dc5d6c60d3bad31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C617FE.5070306@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Dead Beat skrev:
> Hi everybody !!
> 
> Kind new in building analog synths and things, i'd like to know if
> somebody could help me : I'd like to build a simple white noise
> generator, which could be used like a single part.
> Is it possible to build a noise generator using white, pink and others noise ?
> Maybe it's stupid question.... Thanks for the help !!

Check out the ASM-1 synth. The noise generator schematics is what you 
are looking for.

If I was not running I would give you the link... 
(http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus gets you started)

Cheers,
Magnus


From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Sun Mar 22 12:16:57 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:16:57 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] White noise generator
References: <b5d643910903211332m399a80abwcf08cb47227f2e71@mail.gmail.com><b5d643910903220155v6fe62e50o4dc5d6c60d3bad31@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C617FE.5070306@rubidium.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <F7B3B8B28CC04FE38D965F74DCDFAA9D@OFFICE>

you will find them here www.elby-designs.com/asm-1/asm1.htm

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
for the addressee only.
If you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or 
otherwise use it, or any part of it, in any form whatsoever. If you have 
received this e-mail in error please notify the sender and ensure that all 
copies of this e-mail and any files transmitted with it are deleted.
Any views or opinions represented in this e-mail are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Elby Designs.
Although this e-mail and its attachments have been scanned for the presence 
of computer viruses, Elby Designs will not be liable for any losses as a 
result of any viruses being passed on.

Please consider the environment before printing this email

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Magnus Danielson" <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
To: "Dead Beat" <lofideadbeat at gmail.com>
Cc: <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] White noise generator


> Dead Beat skrev:
>> Hi everybody !!
>>
>> Kind new in building analog synths and things, i'd like to know if
>> somebody could help me : I'd like to build a simple white noise
>> generator, which could be used like a single part.
>> Is it possible to build a noise generator using white, pink and others 
>> noise ?
>> Maybe it's stupid question.... Thanks for the help !!
>
> Check out the ASM-1 synth. The noise generator schematics is what you are 
> looking for.
>
> If I was not running I would give you the link... 
> (http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus gets you started)
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From raywilson at comcast.net  Sun Mar 22 14:36:02 2009
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 07:36:02 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] White noise generator
In-Reply-To: <b5d643910903220155v6fe62e50o4dc5d6c60d3bad31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5d643910903211332m399a80abwcf08cb47227f2e71@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5d643910903220155v6fe62e50o4dc5d6c60d3bad31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04C8934CF61B4C4D9494D6C0C8B4BF49@RaymondLabPC>

Check out
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/NOISECORNUCOPIA/NOISECORNUCOPIA.php

Cheers

Ray


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dead Beat" <lofideadbeat at gmail.com>
To: <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 2:55 AM
Subject: [sdiy] White noise generator


> Hi everybody !!
>
> Kind new in building analog synths and things, i'd like to know if
> somebody could help me : I'd like to build a simple white noise
> generator, which could be used like a single part.
> Is it possible to build a noise generator using white, pink and others 
> noise ?
> Maybe it's stupid question.... Thanks for the help !!
> DeadBeat
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From raywilson at comcast.net  Sun Mar 22 14:39:08 2009
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 07:39:08 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <027401c9aa5f$18e5acd0$4ab10670$@net>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net><eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
	<021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>
	<8549E5D9E8FB4F05AA0DFFFBAB2EBA12@RaymondLabPC>
	<027401c9aa5f$18e5acd0$4ab10670$@net>
Message-ID: <0928DB36CBCB40F899930D72F4262C79@RaymondLabPC>

If you already have +V DC and -V DC and ground (three wires coming out of 
the wallwart) you already have a bipolar power supply and you would not need 
an MFOS wall wart board.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
To: "'Ray Wilson'" <raywilson at comcast.net>; "'SDIY'" 
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?


What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it 
up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to 
get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I 
already have a supply with +/-9v DC.

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:34 PM
To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

Hi James

The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is relative
to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of
the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply
output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to
"earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart which
is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the
plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of
it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all you
can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the
secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the
secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.

The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php

Hope this helps.

Ray Wilson


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?


> So, I?m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want
> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply
> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it
> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and ground
> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the
> wallwart supply?
>
> James R. Coplin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From daugard at cox.net  Sun Mar 22 15:10:56 2009
From: daugard at cox.net (Tim Daugard)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:10:56 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] White noise generator
References: <b5d643910903211332m399a80abwcf08cb47227f2e71@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5d643910903220155v6fe62e50o4dc5d6c60d3bad31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c9aaf8$04f0efc0$0201a8c0@TIM>

From: "Dead Beat" <lofideadbeat at gmail.com>

 I'd like to build a simple white noise
> generator, which could be used like a single part.

Here is my simplest noise source:

http://members.cox.net/synthfred/h_ong101.htm


Tim Daugard
AG4GZ 30.4078N 86.6227W Alt: 12 feet above MSL
http://members.cox.net/synthfred/h_toctop.htm (Fred's online edition)






From barryklein at cox.net  Sun Mar 22 17:33:49 2009
From: barryklein at cox.net (Barry Klein)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:33:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] usb power?
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<17035a3d0903220112y25c1f17bm62cbaf5fc6940c20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51A2B2FAB33C46FCB6E1421B0E342FE8@DAD>

USB hard drives draw about an amp on spinup and 500-700mA during operational 
modes.
None are USB compliant as they cannot meet the 500mA limit.
I have found that some Apple and Sony laptops will fail to provide more than 
750mA or so, but
most things will supply over an amp without port shutdown.  Critical thing 
is not to present
a large discharged cap to the port.  The high current spike will cause a 
detected current surge and
the port may be shut off or at least you will get a fault message.
Another thing you could maybe do is to multiplex the LED's (strobe them) to 
reduce power or go
all the way and have a lipoly power source that is charged/backed up by the 
laptop power when necessary.
Also, you can get very bright leds cheap off ebay - way brighter than in the 
usual cheap multiLED arrays.
You can use less of these for the same amount of light... Check Maxim and 
other driver chips too.

Barry

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loscha" <loscha at gmail.com>
To: "db" <dbarton at pacbell.net>; <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] usb power?


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power
> "A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and was raised to 150 mA
> in USB 3.0"
>
> Stick to around 100 mA and you should be sweet.
>
> -ErJ
>
> On 3/22/09, db <dbarton at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>  I want to power some lights from my laptop. These lights are a bank of 
>> 25
>> leds, designed to run at 4.5 volts
>>
>>  How can I tell how many of these are ok to power from usb?
>>
>>  I'm guessing a usb hard drive pulls more current than even 100 LEDs, no?
>>
>>  dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Synth-diy mailing list
>>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
> -- 
> www.loscha.com
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From james at ticalun.net  Sun Mar 22 17:55:39 2009
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:55:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <0928DB36CBCB40F899930D72F4262C79@RaymondLabPC>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net><eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
	<021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>
	<8549E5D9E8FB4F05AA0DFFFBAB2EBA12@RaymondLabPC>
	<027401c9aa5f$18e5acd0$4ab10670$@net>
	<0928DB36CBCB40F899930D72F4262C79@RaymondLabPC>
Message-ID: <002101c9ab0f$0813bc20$183b3460$@net>

I think I understand where I'm getting confused.  A two wire 9v supply with a + and - polarity is actually just delivering +9v and ground, not + and - 9v.  Is this correct?  If so, why do they call it negative instead of ground?  Seems confusing to me...

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:39 AM
To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

If you already have +V DC and -V DC and ground (three wires coming out of 
the wallwart) you already have a bipolar power supply and you would not need 
an MFOS wall wart board.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
To: "'Ray Wilson'" <raywilson at comcast.net>; "'SDIY'" 
<synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?


What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it 
up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to 
get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I 
already have a supply with +/-9v DC.

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:34 PM
To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

Hi James

The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is relative
to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of
the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply
output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to
"earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart which
is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the
plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of
it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all you
can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the
secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the
secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.

The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php

Hope this helps.

Ray Wilson


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?


> So, I?m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want
> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply
> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it
> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and ground
> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the
> wallwart supply?
>
> James R. Coplin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From music.maker at gte.net  Sun Mar 22 18:01:44 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:01:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
Message-ID: <200903221701.n2MH1iaX007738@linux7.lan>

"James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
>I think I understand where I'm getting confused. A two wire 9v 
>supply with a + and - polarity is actually just delivering +9v 
>and ground, not + and - 9v. Is this correct? If so, why do they 
>call it negative instead of ground? Seems confusing to me... 

Yes! correct!

It's called - because it is more negative than the other wire.

If you look at a dry cell, one side is labeled +, the other side is labeled -.  Same deal.


>James R. Coplin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net] 
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:39 AM
>To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>If you already have +V DC and -V DC and ground (three wires coming out of 
>the wallwart) you already have a bipolar power supply and you would not need 
>an MFOS wall wart board.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
>To: "'Ray Wilson'" <raywilson at comcast.net>; "'SDIY'" 
><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:56 PM
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it 
>up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to 
>get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I 
>already have a supply with +/-9v DC.
>
>James R. Coplin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:34 PM
>To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>Hi James
>
>The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is relative
>to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of
>the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply
>output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to
>"earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart which
>is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the
>plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of
>it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all you
>can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the
>secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the
>secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.
>
>The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
>http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Ray Wilson
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
>To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
>Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>> So, I???m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want
>> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply
>> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it
>> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and ground
>> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the
>> wallwart supply?
>>
>> James R. Coplin
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From blacet at blacet.com  Sun Mar 22 18:03:57 2009
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:03:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <002101c9ab0f$0813bc20$183b3460$@net>
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>
	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net><eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
	<021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net>
	<8549E5D9E8FB4F05AA0DFFFBAB2EBA12@RaymondLabPC>
	<027401c9aa5f$18e5acd0$4ab10670$@net>
	<0928DB36CBCB40F899930D72F4262C79@RaymondLabPC>
	<002101c9ab0f$0813bc20$183b3460$@net>
Message-ID: <483c70659eabea288c98e38b7f8ca1e4.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>

--Yes, somewhat confusing! But you've got the idea.

> I think I understand where I'm getting confused.  A two wire 9v supply
> with a + and - polarity is actually just delivering +9v and ground, not +
> and - 9v.  Is this correct?  If so, why do they call it negative instead
> of ground?  Seems confusing to me...
>
> James R. Coplin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:39 AM
> To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
> If you already have +V DC and -V DC and ground (three wires coming out of
> the wallwart) you already have a bipolar power supply and you would not
> need
> an MFOS wall wart board.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
> To: "'Ray Wilson'" <raywilson at comcast.net>; "'SDIY'"
> <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
> What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it
> up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to
> get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I
> already have a supply with +/-9v DC.
>
> James R. Coplin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:34 PM
> To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
> Hi James
>
> The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is
> relative
> to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of
> the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply
> output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to
> "earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart
> which
> is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the
> plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of
> it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all
> you
> can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the
> secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the
> secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.
>
> The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ray Wilson
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
> To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>> So, I???m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I
>> want
>> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply
>> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about
>> it
>> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and
>> ground
>> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the
>> wallwart supply?
>>
>> James R. Coplin
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


-- 
John Blacet



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Sun Mar 22 18:04:13 2009
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:04:13 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] trying to get my scope to see CHAOS??
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W25C4BD024C1275DA5B16E9C8950@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W18601707DEDA561E4F6B4DC8950@phx.gbl>
	<49C5E2CD.3080807@sonic.net>
	<BAY144-W25C4BD024C1275DA5B16E9C8950@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20090322110014.020fd268@mail.comcast.net>

At 02:23 AM 3/22/2009, Dan Snazelle wrote:

>ok..... I was thrown off because in a previous comment Ian had suggested I 
>run the jerkster at lower rates to achieve the best results for chaotic 
>behavior.

I just meant that I prefer the CV application as opposed to audio.


>I am wondering if possible i switched the labeling of the Z and Y.
>
>would this make a huge difference Ian?

The difference is illustrated in the posted photos.  Yes, quite a bit 
different behavior.

   Ian 



From lofideadbeat at gmail.com  Sun Mar 22 18:19:36 2009
From: lofideadbeat at gmail.com (Dead Beat)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:19:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] White noise generator
In-Reply-To: <04C8934CF61B4C4D9494D6C0C8B4BF49@RaymondLabPC>
References: <b5d643910903211332m399a80abwcf08cb47227f2e71@mail.gmail.com>
	<b5d643910903220155v6fe62e50o4dc5d6c60d3bad31@mail.gmail.com>
	<04C8934CF61B4C4D9494D6C0C8B4BF49@RaymondLabPC>
Message-ID: <b5d643910903221019h5ed0692fob20945c02400a54@mail.gmail.com>

2009/3/22, Ray Wilson <raywilson at comcast.net>:
> Check out
> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/NOISECORNUCOPIA/NOISECORNUCOPIA.php
>
> Cheers
>
> Ray

If i don't use the gate output, it will work as well ? Or i will loose
some capacities of this project ? I don't speak very well english, and
even if i've made an wsg and a mini synth, i don't always understand
everything.
I think i will go on it, but i don't want to use it in an analog way,
only building a kind of effect pedal... Can i build it without gate ?
Thanks for all !!


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Sun Mar 22 18:25:12 2009
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:25:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Push buttons with nice LITE action
In-Reply-To: <49C4DA4D.5020400@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49C44763.3050006@burnit.co.uk>
	<BLU0-SMTP62EA22BF94FFD9C5995483BB940@phx.gbl>
	<49C4DA4D.5020400@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20090322172511.GE3107@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2009-03-21 12:15 +0000, Seb Francis wrote:

> Yeah, I had considered tactile switches, but was looking for an
> easier way to panel mount that didn't involve mounting a PCB or
> piece of stripboard behind the panel. But I guess I might end up
> doing just that if necessary to get the 'perfect' push button. A
> lot of tactile switch caps do seem to be square, but since I'm
> likely going to get the panel made professionally this shouldn't
> be a problem.

If you're going for square holes and PCB-mount, RS sell Cherry
keyboard switches. Though the ones I remember had a thin shaft and
I don't know how that holds in time. Membrane PC keyboards have a
much wider shaft and yet the cheap ones jam after a few months.
It's all about the kind of plastic used, I suspect.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From james at ticalun.net  Sun Mar 22 18:26:57 2009
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:26:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <200903221701.n2MH1iaX007738@linux7.lan>
References: <200903221701.n2MH1iaX007738@linux7.lan>
Message-ID: <000301c9ab13$67c8f000$375ad000$@net>

Thanks all!  I got it now.

James R. Coplin  

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Scott Gravenhorst
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 12:02 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

"James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
>I think I understand where I'm getting confused. A two wire 9v 
>supply with a + and - polarity is actually just delivering +9v 
>and ground, not + and - 9v. Is this correct? If so, why do they 
>call it negative instead of ground? Seems confusing to me... 

Yes! correct!

It's called - because it is more negative than the other wire.

If you look at a dry cell, one side is labeled +, the other side is labeled -.  Same deal.


>James R. Coplin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net] 
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:39 AM
>To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>If you already have +V DC and -V DC and ground (three wires coming out of 
>the wallwart) you already have a bipolar power supply and you would not need 
>an MFOS wall wart board.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
>To: "'Ray Wilson'" <raywilson at comcast.net>; "'SDIY'" 
><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:56 PM
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it 
>up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to 
>get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I 
>already have a supply with +/-9v DC.
>
>James R. Coplin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:34 PM
>To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>Hi James
>
>The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is relative
>to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of
>the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply
>output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to
>"earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart which
>is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the
>plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of
>it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all you
>can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the
>secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the
>secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.
>
>The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
>http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Ray Wilson
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
>To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
>Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>> So, I???m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want
>> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply
>> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it
>> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and ground
>> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the
>> wallwart supply?
>>
>> James R. Coplin
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From dbarton at pacbell.net  Sun Mar 22 19:25:50 2009
From: dbarton at pacbell.net (db)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:25:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] usb power?
In-Reply-To: <e85a944f0903220212x306cec1fv2841743c35baceb5@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322111601.07c89af0@pop.att.yahoo.com>


> From your numbers of 25 LEDs and 4.5V, I can only guess you want some
>white LEDs and intend to suck the maximum of 500mA.  Is that correct?
>You can probably get away with that ... mostly.  If you are sucking


I don't know how much current these lights use, as they are just small 25 
led lights that come all assembled, so I have no specs.
Does anyone know an approximation of how much current I might be using with 
the 25?

Is it easy to measure? Can I simply connect a DMM in series an get a useful 
reading?

If I need to, I'll use an external supply,. but that complicates things a 
bit for this app.
I have the laptop controlling the LEDs on/off, as well as powering them.


dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]





From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Sun Mar 22 19:33:22 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:33:22 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
References: <eaacbb730903201940u654abddfx17c6b12a038b391b@mail.gmail.com>	<opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net><eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com><021c01c9aa41$74832e00$5d898a00$@net><8549E5D9E8FB4F05AA0DFFFBAB2EBA12@RaymondLabPC><027401c9aa5f$18e5acd0$4ab10670$@net><0928DB36CBCB40F899930D72F4262C79@RaymondLabPC>
	<002101c9ab0f$0813bc20$183b3460$@net>
Message-ID: <B6463D04C26E4789B108CBBF5A5C5EF4@OFFICE>

It is only GROUND when you call it that and/or refer it to your system 
chassis and/or an EARTH connection.
A single rail supply has a +ve terminal and a -ve terminal (current goes out 
one and in the other). When you connect one of these terminals to your 
systems COMMON, GROUND or REFERENCE rail it assumes the same identity. If 
you connect the +ve terminal to your system ground the other rail (-ve_ in 
this case becomes your systems negative rail. If you connect the -ve rail to 
your system ground then the other rail (+ve) becomes your systems positive 
rail.
For a dual supply you need 2 of these power supplies each connected with one 
of its rails to your system common.

To get proper dual rail output you need a centre-tapped AC plugpack. You 
can, however, achieve similar results with a single AC plugpack as shown on 
MFOS

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
for the addressee only.
If you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or 
otherwise use it, or any part of it, in any form whatsoever. If you have 
received this e-mail in error please notify the sender and ensure that all 
copies of this e-mail and any files transmitted with it are deleted.
Any views or opinions represented in this e-mail are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Elby Designs.
Although this e-mail and its attachments have been scanned for the presence 
of computer viruses, Elby Designs will not be liable for any losses as a 
result of any viruses being passed on.

Please consider the environment before printing this email

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 3:55 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?


>I think I understand where I'm getting confused.  A two wire 9v supply with 
>a + and - polarity is actually just delivering +9v and ground, not + and - 
>9v.  Is this correct?  If so, why do they call it negative instead of 
>ground?  Seems confusing to me...
>
> James R. Coplin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:39 AM
> To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
> If you already have +V DC and -V DC and ground (three wires coming out of
> the wallwart) you already have a bipolar power supply and you would not 
> need
> an MFOS wall wart board.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
> To: "'Ray Wilson'" <raywilson at comcast.net>; "'SDIY'"
> <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
> What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it
> up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to
> get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I
> already have a supply with +/-9v DC.
>
> James R. Coplin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:34 PM
> To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
> Hi James
>
> The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is 
> relative
> to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of
> the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply
> output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to
> "earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart 
> which
> is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the
> plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of
> it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all 
> you
> can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the
> secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the
> secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.
>
> The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
> http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ray Wilson
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
> To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
> Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>> So, I?m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want
>> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply
>> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it
>> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and 
>> ground
>> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the
>> wallwart supply?
>>
>> James R. Coplin
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From danjel at gmail.com  Sun Mar 22 20:06:45 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:06:45 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>

I was just thinking about how simple and cool the Apple macbook
magsafe power cable system is and I was wondering if anything like
this existed for audio?

It would be great for headphone jacks as I frequently put too much
strain on them when I am moving around in my clumsy ways.

I think it  would also be cool for  patch cables on modulars. You
would eliminate a lot of mechanical wear experienced by jacks
(especially minijacks in euro systems) and you could possible design
smaller jack systems....not sure how good the electrical connection is
for audio signals in comparison to power and I am guessing this may be
a big problem with this idea.

cheers,
Danjel


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Sun Mar 22 20:17:52 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:17:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <49BD5469.3070100@makenoisemusic.com>
Message-ID: <0KGX00BJI9LT38@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

This may sound kinda silly, but I built one of Ray Wilson's circuits with a
thermal noise generating transistor, but I left the collector wire attached.
I picked up all sorts of radio signals on it, which made for some very
interesting noise indeed!

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tony Rolando
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:18 PM
> To: sdiy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
> 
> I had been wanting to do a VC-radio as a euro rack module. I've got a
> whole bag of varactors to test/ experiment with... not had time yet. In
> any case, I thought I'd mention this IC, because it would be pretty
> simple to VC, however looks like FM only and expensive:
> 
> http://www.futurlec.com/cgi-bin/search/qty_price.cgi?part_no=TDA7000
> 
> Available though, and it might be a pretty quick way to get something
> like this going!
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alfred.pear at gmail.com wrote:
> > anyone here ever endeavor to create a voltage-controlled tuning
> > mechanism that spanned the Medium Wave/AM band?
> >
> > i am concerned that a varactor will not provide sufficient range..
> >
> >
> > -a
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Sun Mar 22 21:25:14 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:25:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>

I love magsafe... I destroyed 2 laptops before I finally got an iBook 
with magsafe power.

I think it would be worth looking into the cost of a retro-fit magsafe 
solution for mini jack modulars.

Tony

Danjel van Tijn wrote:
> I was just thinking about how simple and cool the Apple macbook
> magsafe power cable system is and I was wondering if anything like
> this existed for audio?
>
> It would be great for headphone jacks as I frequently put too much
> strain on them when I am moving around in my clumsy ways.
>
> I think it  would also be cool for  patch cables on modulars. You
> would eliminate a lot of mechanical wear experienced by jacks
> (especially minijacks in euro systems) and you could possible design
> smaller jack systems....not sure how good the electrical connection is
> for audio signals in comparison to power and I am guessing this may be
> a big problem with this idea.
>
> cheers,
> Danjel
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 23 02:19:31 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:19:31 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>


yes..this interests me as well as i am currently in laptop hell with a messed up ac inlet...the computer shuts down a few minutes into being on as the cord moves....Tony..did you ever find a workaround?




--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page





> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:25:14 -0400
> From: tony at makenoisemusic.com
> To: danjel at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> 
> I love magsafe... I destroyed 2 laptops before I finally got an iBook 
> with magsafe power.
> 
> I think it would be worth looking into the cost of a retro-fit magsafe 
> solution for mini jack modulars.
> 
> Tony
> 
> Danjel van Tijn wrote:
>> I was just thinking about how simple and cool the Apple macbook
>> magsafe power cable system is and I was wondering if anything like
>> this existed for audio?
>>
>> It would be great for headphone jacks as I frequently put too much
>> strain on them when I am moving around in my clumsy ways.
>>
>> I think it  would also be cool for  patch cables on modulars. You
>> would eliminate a lot of mechanical wear experienced by jacks
>> (especially minijacks in euro systems) and you could possible design
>> smaller jack systems....not sure how good the electrical connection is
>> for audio signals in comparison to power and I am guessing this may be
>> a big problem with this idea.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Danjel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Mon Mar 23 02:46:12 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:46:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C6E9E4.8050901@makenoisemusic.com>

No work around... I tripped over the cable and pulled the whole computer 
of the table... smashing the screen, hinge etc... TWICE!

Tony


Dan Snazelle wrote:
> yes..this interests me as well as i am currently in laptop hell with a messed up ac inlet...the computer shuts down a few minutes into being on as the cord moves....Tony..did you ever find a workaround?
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
>  http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc  
>
> (updated monthly)
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
> AUDIO ARK:
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:25:14 -0400
>> From: tony at makenoisemusic.com
>> To: danjel at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
>> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>
>> I love magsafe... I destroyed 2 laptops before I finally got an iBook 
>> with magsafe power.
>>
>> I think it would be worth looking into the cost of a retro-fit magsafe 
>> solution for mini jack modulars.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> Danjel van Tijn wrote:
>>     
>>> I was just thinking about how simple and cool the Apple macbook
>>> magsafe power cable system is and I was wondering if anything like
>>> this existed for audio?
>>>
>>> It would be great for headphone jacks as I frequently put too much
>>> strain on them when I am moving around in my clumsy ways.
>>>
>>> I think it  would also be cool for  patch cables on modulars. You
>>> would eliminate a lot of mechanical wear experienced by jacks
>>> (especially minijacks in euro systems) and you could possible design
>>> smaller jack systems....not sure how good the electrical connection is
>>> for audio signals in comparison to power and I am guessing this may be
>>> a big problem with this idea.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Danjel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>     
>
>   



From danjel at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 02:51:04 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:51:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <87441170903221455if9c56a9j63776970153c41f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<87441170903221455if9c56a9j63776970153c41f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903221851s5e30418ds16ed3e6275a3b8ac@mail.gmail.com>

Well there is the opposite scenario to consider: I like to build
patches from scratch and work quickly. When it turns into a
clusterf*&k or I need a clean slate I like to be able to get all the
cables out of the way and unplugged quickly.

Also, if the cables snap into position with guided contacts then there
is the possibility of better "hot patching" since there will never be
shorting.

It would probably too expensive to implement unless there was a cheap
and abundant off the shelf solution.


cheers,
Danjel





On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Danjel van Tijn <danjel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was just thinking about how simple and cool the Apple macbook
>> magsafe power cable system is and I was wondering if anything like
>> this existed for audio?
>>
>> It would be great for headphone jacks as I frequently put too much
>> strain on them when I am moving around in my clumsy ways.
>>
>> I think it ?would also be cool for ?patch cables on modulars. You
>> would eliminate a lot of mechanical wear experienced by jacks
>> (especially minijacks in euro systems) and you could possible design
>> smaller jack systems....not sure how good the electrical connection is
>> for audio signals in comparison to power and I am guessing this may be
>> a big problem with this idea.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Danjel
>> _______________________________________________
>>
> I think this might be neat and an easy add-on for headphone jacks, but for
> all the jacks on a modular? A little unecessary IMO. I can't recall ever
> tripping on or getting accidentally getting tangled up in my synth patch
> cables. OTOH, I can see pulling one cable and accidentally yanking a half
> dozen or so magcables along with it - there goes my patch!
> Tim (would magcables stick to the plate in my head?) Servo
> --
> "Sire, the church of God is an anvil that has worn out many hammers." - H.L.
> Hastings
>



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Mon Mar 23 03:03:50 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:03:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903221851s5e30418ds16ed3e6275a3b8ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>	<87441170903221455if9c56a9j63776970153c41f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<439ccfd90903221851s5e30418ds16ed3e6275a3b8ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C6EE06.8070905@makenoisemusic.com>

Yeah, for sure, all that is good stuff to Danjel.

TOny

Danjel van Tijn wrote:
> Well there is the opposite scenario to consider: I like to build
> patches from scratch and work quickly. When it turns into a
> clusterf*&k or I need a clean slate I like to be able to get all the
> cables out of the way and unplugged quickly.
>
> Also, if the cables snap into position with guided contacts then there
> is the possibility of better "hot patching" since there will never be
> shorting.
>
> It would probably too expensive to implement unless there was a cheap
> and abundant off the shelf solution.
>
>
> cheers,
> Danjel
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Danjel van Tijn <danjel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> I was just thinking about how simple and cool the Apple macbook
>>> magsafe power cable system is and I was wondering if anything like
>>> this existed for audio?
>>>
>>> It would be great for headphone jacks as I frequently put too much
>>> strain on them when I am moving around in my clumsy ways.
>>>
>>> I think it  would also be cool for  patch cables on modulars. You
>>> would eliminate a lot of mechanical wear experienced by jacks
>>> (especially minijacks in euro systems) and you could possible design
>>> smaller jack systems....not sure how good the electrical connection is
>>> for audio signals in comparison to power and I am guessing this may be
>>> a big problem with this idea.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Danjel
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>       
>> I think this might be neat and an easy add-on for headphone jacks, but for
>> all the jacks on a modular? A little unecessary IMO. I can't recall ever
>> tripping on or getting accidentally getting tangled up in my synth patch
>> cables. OTOH, I can see pulling one cable and accidentally yanking a half
>> dozen or so magcables along with it - there goes my patch!
>> Tim (would magcables stick to the plate in my head?) Servo
>> --
>> "Sire, the church of God is an anvil that has worn out many hammers." - H.L.
>> Hastings
>>
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From matt at smiffytech.com  Mon Mar 23 03:15:41 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:45:41 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>

(Originally sent directly to Dan by mistake.)

Quoth Dan Snazelle at 2009-03-23 11:49...
> yes..this interests me as well as i am currently in laptop hell with a messed up ac inlet...the computer shuts down a few minutes into being on as the cord moves....Tony..did you ever find a workaround?

This is a laptop which you plug directly into the mains?

Probably just need to re-flow the joints of the mains socket.

Laptops with external power adaptors get the same problem with the DC
jacks - especially the smaller ones.  The one on my recent-model
ThinkPad is BIG - far less likely to get damaged by those lateral
forces.  The actual DC plugs on these tend to fail more often.  Actually
managed to repair the moulded plug on my wife's laptop - cut it open,
soldered the wires in (which were crimped,) epoxied rubber back on,
heat-shrink sleeving round the lot.  (Lots of it, for strain relief.)

By the way, for those of us who don't come into contact with Apple
hardware (other than my eyeProd,) what's Magsafe?

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech



From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 23 03:18:56 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:18:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
Message-ID: <460575.5953.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Try this maybe:

http://www.instructables.com/id/ThinkSafe%3a-A-Magnetic-Power-Connector-for-Thinkpad/

Just Googled for "magnetic connector."

I can't find em now, but I know one company makes 'breakable' dock connectors. Possibly they have circular ones as well if that's important, or if you could live with a small rectangle plug and some unused pins.


_Kyle

--- On Sun, 3/22/09, Danjel van Tijn <danjel at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Danjel van Tijn <danjel at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
> To: "synthdiy DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 6:51 PM
> Well there is the opposite scenario
> to consider: I like to build
> patches from scratch and work quickly. When it turns into
> a
> clusterf*&k or I need a clean slate I like to be able
> to get all the
> cables out of the way and unplugged quickly.
> 
> Also, if the cables snap into position with guided contacts
> then there
> is the possibility of better "hot patching" since there
> will never be
> shorting.
> 
> It would probably too expensive to implement unless there
> was a cheap
> and abundant off the shelf solution.
> 
> 
> cheers,
> Danjel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Tim Parkhurst <tim.parkhurst at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Danjel van Tijn
> <danjel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I was just thinking about how simple and cool the
> Apple macbook
> >> magsafe power cable system is and I was wondering
> if anything like
> >> this existed for audio?
> >>
> >> It would be great for headphone jacks as I
> frequently put too much
> >> strain on them when I am moving around in my
> clumsy ways.
> >>
> >> I think it ?would also be cool for ?patch cables
> on modulars. You
> >> would eliminate a lot of mechanical wear
> experienced by jacks
> >> (especially minijacks in euro systems) and you
> could possible design
> >> smaller jack systems....not sure how good the
> electrical connection is
> >> for audio signals in comparison to power and I am
> guessing this may be
> >> a big problem with this idea.
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Danjel
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> > I think this might be neat and an easy add-on for
> headphone jacks, but for
> > all the jacks on a modular? A little unecessary IMO. I
> can't recall ever
> > tripping on or getting accidentally getting tangled up
> in my synth patch
> > cables. OTOH, I can see pulling one cable and
> accidentally yanking a half
> > dozen or so magcables along with it - there goes my
> patch!
> > Tim (would magcables stick to the plate in my head?)
> Servo
> > --
> > "Sire, the church of God is an anvil that has worn out
> many hammers." - H.L.
> > Hastings
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      



From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Mon Mar 23 04:12:33 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:12:33 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
	<49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <001301c9ab65$35c9bd30$a15d3790$@net>

The power connector is held in place by a magnet. There is no "male/female" connection in the traditional sense. There are two "buttons" on the laptop and two buttons on the end of the cord on a small squarish connector. I don't know if there are two magnets or one magnet and a small piece of iron, but when you bring the connector buttons close to the laptop buttons, they snap together.


David

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Matthew Smith
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:16 PM
To: Synth DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?


Deleted...

By the way, for those of us who don't come into contact with Apple
hardware (other than my eyeProd,) what's Magsafe?




From danjel at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 04:32:02 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:32:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] eurorack busboard with star ground
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903222032q4b78a7fapaf355d159cc9dc46@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone made a eurorack (doepfer) busboard with star grounding scheme?

If so, is there a PCB available to buy? This is an easy thing to build
(and an easy thing to make a PCB layout for).... seems like it would
be a popular product if it existed.


cheers,
Danjel


From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Mon Mar 23 05:18:00 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Elby Designs - Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:18:00 +0900
Subject: [sdiy] eurorack busboard with star ground
Message-ID: <29628.1237781880@ozemail.com.au>

I am not sure that this would actually be an easy thing to make. Assuming, say, 8
buspoints, that would require 8 separate grounds running to the star point. the
board would start to get quite wide or would be better as a round pcb with the
star in the middle.....

Wouldn't it be easier to treat the busboard itself as the star point? With
subtsantial ground tracks to teach connector the end result i would have though
would have been as good.

Best regards
Laurie Biddulph
www.elby-designs.com

On Mon Mar 23 14:32 , Danjel van Tijn  sent:

>Has anyone made a eurorack (doepfer) busboard with star grounding scheme?
>
>If so, is there a PCB available to buy? This is an easy thing to build
>(and an easy thing to make a PCB layout for).... seems like it would
>be a popular product if it existed.
>
>
>cheers,
>Danjel
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>)





From danjel at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 05:24:37 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:24:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] eurorack busboard with star ground
In-Reply-To: <29628.1237781880@ozemail.com.au>
References: <29628.1237781880@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903222124o3ed65daq76908b350549d029@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Laurie,

What you are describing is exactly what I meant but did not articulate
clearly enough.

The Doepfer and Ken Stone boards have a single ground line shared by
all the connectors (and running underneath them). It would be better
if the ground lines from each header were routed separately (with nice
wide tracks) to a single star point.

The resulting pcb will be bigger but it will alleviate a lot of
problems many users have with audio bleed on their euro systems.

cheers,
    Danjel



On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Elby Designs - Laurie Biddulph
<elby_designs at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> I am not sure that this would actually be an easy thing to make. Assuming, say, 8
> buspoints, that would require 8 separate grounds running to the star point. the
> board would start to get quite wide or would be better as a round pcb with the
> star in the middle.....
>
> Wouldn't it be easier to treat the busboard itself as the star point? With
> subtsantial ground tracks to teach connector the end result i would have though
> would have been as good.
>
> Best regards
> Laurie Biddulph
> www.elby-designs.com
>
> On Mon Mar 23 14:32 , Danjel van Tijn ?sent:
>
>>Has anyone made a eurorack (doepfer) busboard with star grounding scheme?
>>
>>If so, is there a PCB available to buy? This is an easy thing to build
>>(and an easy thing to make a PCB layout for).... seems like it would
>>be a popular product if it existed.
>>
>>
>>cheers,
>>Danjel
>>_______________________________________________
>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>)
>
>
>



From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Mon Mar 23 06:57:53 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:57:53 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Jack to PCB "flying wires"
In-Reply-To: <001301c9ab65$35c9bd30$a15d3790$@net>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>	<49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
	<001301c9ab65$35c9bd30$a15d3790$@net>
Message-ID: <000001c9ab7c$4ebe5280$ec3af780$@net>

I am undertaking several modules from various SDIY designers and I have studied various builders versions as well as the designer's documentation. However, I am still confused regarding wiring audio signals from jacks to the PCB. 

I have seen/built modules where the connection is:

1. just a piece of hook-up wire from the tip to PCB and ground to PCB
2. a twisted pair of hook-up sires from the jack to the PCB
3. Co-axial cable with:
   a. shield connected at the jack
   b. shield connected at the PCB
   c. shield connected at both ends

While I understand the general idea of ground-loop interference, I am confused by the variation in connections.

Why would I do any one of these over another? 

Specifically, if I do the "one-sided" co-ax thing:

1. does it matter if I connect the shield to the jack rather than the PCB, and why?
2. does the shield really do anything if it isn't connected at both ends?
3. if the co-ax really should only be connected at one end, why then, when using hook-up wire, do people run both a tip and ground wire between the jack and the PCB?


Last question, I've noticed a "star" type grounding on some modules where the ground of some jacks are connected together then run to the PCB with a one wire. How would I decide which jacks are to be "common"? EG, Mankato filter, there are three CV inputs and a 1v/Oct CV input which are summed on the board. If using hook-up wire on these jacks, would it make sense to tie the jack grounds together and just run one ground wire to the PCB?

Really, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

David




From dlmanley at sonic.net  Mon Mar 23 06:59:40 2009
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:59:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <000301c9ab13$67c8f000$375ad000$@net>
References: <200903221701.n2MH1iaX007738@linux7.lan>
	<000301c9ab13$67c8f000$375ad000$@net>
Message-ID: <49C7254C.6030006@sonic.net>

James R. Coplin wrote:
> Thanks all!  I got it now.
>
> James R. Coplin  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Scott Gravenhorst
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 12:02 PM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
> "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
>   
>> I think I understand where I'm getting confused. A two wire 9v 
>> supply with a + and - polarity is actually just delivering +9v 
>> and ground, not + and - 9v. Is this correct? If so, why do they 
>> call it negative instead of ground? Seems confusing to me... 
>>     
One last clarification: the '-' lead on the supply is almost certainly 
not ground.  The typical wall wart has an AC step-down transformer that 
isolates the low voltage outputs from the high voltage AC inputs.  
There's a good introduction to wall warts, voltage regulation, and 
filtering here:

http://www.dxing.info/equipment/wall_warts_bryant.dx

-Dave


From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar 23 09:47:34 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:47:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Jack to PCB "flying wires"
Message-ID: <7795.81.58.240.234.1237798054.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


David Ingebretsen schreef:
> I am undertaking several modules from various SDIY designers and I have
> studied various builders versions as well as the designer's documentation.
> However, I am still confused regarding wiring audio signals from jacks to
> the PCB.
>
> I have seen/built modules where the connection is:
>
> 1. just a piece of hook-up wire from the tip to PCB and ground to PCB
> 2. a twisted pair of hook-up sires from the jack to the PCB
> 3. Co-axial cable with:
>    a. shield connected at the jack
>    b. shield connected at the PCB
>    c. shield connected at both ends
>
> While I understand the general idea of ground-loop interference, I am
> confused by the variation in connections.
>
> Why would I do any one of these over another?

If the wire is short, is connected to a low impedance, carries high signal
levels, and is not close to sources of interference, the amount of
capacitively picked up interference may be low enough that a shield is not
needed. Otherwise you may want to use a shielded wire.

If the jack is already grounded via the panel you should connect the
shield only at one side, to prevent ground loops. If the jack is not
already connected to ground, connect the shield at both ends, so that the
shield in shielded patch cables is connected to ground as well. Except
when your patch cables have shield connected at both ends; in that case
only ground the jacks of outputs.

> Specifically, if I do the "one-sided" co-ax thing:
>
> 1. does it matter if I connect the shield to the jack rather than the PCB,
> and why?

Not really, assuming that the ground of the panel and the ground of the
PCB are essentially at the same potential.

> 2. does the shield really do anything if it isn't connected at both ends?

Yes. By tying the shield to ground, the potential that the center
conductor "sees around it" is ground, instead of a mixture of potentials
that includes the interfering signals on nearby wires.

> 3. if the co-ax really should only be connected at one end, why then, when
> using hook-up wire, do people run both a tip and ground wire between the
> jack and the PCB?

If the jack is already grounded otherwise: Out of misconception

> Last question, I've noticed a "star" type grounding on some modules where
> the ground of some jacks are connected together then run to the PCB with a
> one wire. How would I decide which jacks are to be "common"? EG, Mankato
> filter, there are three CV inputs and a 1v/Oct CV input which are summed
> on the board. If using hook-up wire on these jacks, would it make sense to
> tie the jack grounds together and just run one ground wire to the PCB?

Yes, if the jacks are not already grounded via the panel. Otherwise,
ground the panel using a single ground wire to one of the jacks.


-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Mar 23 10:06:57 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:06:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <001301c9ab65$35c9bd30$a15d3790$@net>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
	<49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
	<001301c9ab65$35c9bd30$a15d3790$@net>
Message-ID: <22CE6240-F646-4DF2-8F7B-0C3967671D64@electricdruid.net>

There is a magsafe version of the 1/4" jack available, but (like  
someone already guessed) it isn't cheap:

http://gizmodo.com/5024028/belkin-breakfree-macbook-magsafe-cable-for- 
your-guitar

For a while, Maplin electronics in the UK stocked magnetic connectors  
from a company called Magtrix, but both they and their connectors  
seem to have disappeared. All I could find of them (apart from  
obsolete references on business directory sites) is:

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2003090321

This looks to be a 2003 patent application, withdrawn in 2006. I  
expect Apple's lawyers jumped on them.

T.



On 23 Mar 2009, at 03:12, David Ingebretsen wrote:

> The power connector is held in place by a magnet. There is no "male/ 
> female" connection in the traditional sense. There are two  
> "buttons" on the laptop and two buttons on the end of the cord on a  
> small squarish connector. I don't know if there are two magnets or  
> one magnet and a small piece of iron, but when you bring the  
> connector buttons close to the laptop buttons, they snap together.
>
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy- 
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Matthew Smith
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:16 PM
> To: Synth DIY
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
>
>
> Deleted...
>
> By the way, for those of us who don't come into contact with Apple
> hardware (other than my eyeProd,) what's Magsafe?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From cheater00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 10:33:07 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:33:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] origin/s of osc sync/sync sweep
In-Reply-To: <49C71A17.5090903@ameritech.net>
References: <9faab5e20903220323i2aff9ef0h704093b4c28c9ec7@mail.gmail.com>
	<27c5115d0903221745oc13de0ck89e2bbc86dcead1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C71A17.5090903@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903230233o21cbd29bi5ae9b86237dadb9c@mail.gmail.com>

I can bet you that sync existed in analogue computers before the moog.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:11 AM, John P <johnp299792 at ameritech.net> wrote:
> I would bet that the Moog 921 is the first oscillator to feature sync.
> The ARP 2500's 1004 T/P and 1023 oscillators didn't have it, nor did
> Buchla's oscillators of that period.
>
> Andrew Scheidler wrote:
>>
>> Don't know about the history part, but the sync sweep in "Neon Lights"
>> from
>> Man Machine (Kraftwerk) is probably my favorite ?:)
>>
>> Drew
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Norman Fay <vietgrove at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> One for the historians on the list:
>>>
>>> What was the first electronic instrument to include oscillator sync?
>>>
>>> What is the earliest recorded instance of the sync sweep sound?
>>>
>>> Have at it...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 10:33:45 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:33:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] origin/s of osc sync/sync sweep
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903230233o21cbd29bi5ae9b86237dadb9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9faab5e20903220323i2aff9ef0h704093b4c28c9ec7@mail.gmail.com>
	<27c5115d0903221745oc13de0ck89e2bbc86dcead1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C71A17.5090903@ameritech.net>
	<cf1e1cb10903230233o21cbd29bi5ae9b86237dadb9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903230233t4559b669o3d65302dc29c10c5@mail.gmail.com>

wrong list again. damnit! :)
but do chime in if you feel like it.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:33 AM, cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can bet you that sync existed in analogue computers before the moog.
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:11 AM, John P <johnp299792 at ameritech.net> wrote:
>> I would bet that the Moog 921 is the first oscillator to feature sync.
>> The ARP 2500's 1004 T/P and 1023 oscillators didn't have it, nor did
>> Buchla's oscillators of that period.
>>
>> Andrew Scheidler wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't know about the history part, but the sync sweep in "Neon Lights"
>>> from
>>> Man Machine (Kraftwerk) is probably my favorite ?:)
>>>
>>> Drew
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Norman Fay <vietgrove at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> One for the historians on the list:
>>>>
>>>> What was the first electronic instrument to include oscillator sync?
>>>>
>>>> What is the earliest recorded instance of the sync sweep sound?
>>>>
>>>> Have at it...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Mon Mar 23 11:32:50 2009
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:32:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Alpha pots with centre detent
Message-ID: <49C76552.9080301@bugbrand.co.uk>

Hi there,

Can anyone suggest a source for 16mm alpha pots with centre detent?

The type required are the split-shaft // short-shaft type as available 
from Futurlec.
Value 100k linear, preferred.

I can get similar ones over here from ESR, but they are long-shaft type 
which require cutting down.

Any pointers appreciated.
Cheers!
Tom / BugBrand


From oakleylist at btinternet.com  Mon Mar 23 11:50:17 2009
From: oakleylist at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:50:17 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] eurorack busboard with star ground
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903222124o3ed65daq76908b350549d029@mail.gmail.com>
References: <29628.1237781880@ozemail.com.au>
	<439ccfd90903222124o3ed65daq76908b350549d029@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C76969.1050301@btinternet.com>

I made one, quite a while ago, for a large one off build of Analogue 
Systems, Analogue Solutions and Doepfer mix. I used Veroboard 
(stripboard) to make my board up. The power busses on those modular 
systems lend themselves well to stripboard since both use 0.1" pin spacing.

I didn't go the full star ground and power but arranged the headers in 
groups of four. All the noisy LFO stuff was on one, and the VCOs were on 
another and so on. In each group the power and ground were starred back 
to the power supply. Starring the ground only is not always sufficient.

I also put in a wodge of 2u2, 25V elect. caps as power supply decoupling.

It all worked very well and much better than the crosstalking thing that 
came to me.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 23 13:20:38 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:20:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <49C6E7C7.8030203@smiffytech.com>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
	<49C6E7C7.8030203@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W568A45F7DAF80C56771ED9C8920@phx.gbl>


my laptop has a dc  wallwart adapter...which then plugs into a dc connector.



my fear of opening the laptop up is figuring out how to open it without messing up the screen,etc.

i have already bought 2 new wallwarts so i am pretty sure it is a bad connector inside



you make it sound easy though



thanks





--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:07:11 +1030
> From: matt at smiffytech.com
> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
>
> Quoth Dan Snazelle at 2009-03-23 11:49...
>> yes..this interests me as well as i am currently in laptop hell with a messed up ac inlet...the computer shuts down a few minutes into being on as the cord moves....Tony..did you ever find a workaround?
>
> This is a laptop which you plug directly into the mains?
>
> Probably just need to re-flow the joints of the mains socket.
>
> Laptops with external power adaptors get the same problem with the DC
> jacks - especially the smaller ones. The one on my recent-model
> ThinkPad is BIG - far less likely to get damaged by those lateral
> forces. The actual DC plugs on these tend to fail more often. Actually
> managed to repair the moulded plug on my wife's laptop - cut it open,
> soldered the wires in (which were crimped,) epoxied rubber back on,
> heat-shrink sleeving round the lot. (Lots of it, for strain relief.)
>
> By the way, for those of us who don't come into contact with Apple
> hardware (other than my eyeProd,) what's Magsafe?
>
> --
> Matthew Smith
> Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
> Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/
> Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
> Skype: msmiffy
> Twitter: @smiffytech



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 23 15:16:16 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:16:16 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] electronics library or obsession?
Message-ID: <BAY144-W33FF80C9C00861A523DA5FC8920@phx.gbl>



this weekend my wife was pestering me to clean up my junk around the house.

The result of which is that now I got all my electronics books sort of organized. 

Sadly, my binders (including electronotes) are all too tall to fit.



anyway...looking at these really makes me smile when I know how many ideas they contain!

now i just need to figure out what other books to ADD!



http://www.flickr.com/photos/13918667 at N02/sets/72157615711942489/












--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page






From Scott at scottwick.com  Mon Mar 23 15:18:31 2009
From: Scott at scottwick.com (Scott)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:18:31 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer Source
Message-ID: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CA6@sol.wick.stl>

Hello,
I've got another parts sourcing question.  So, just like the surplus jacks I asked about the other day, I used to be able to find little alpha potentiometers for about $.50 each at a couple of different surplus stores.  Both seem to be out.  It's been a couple of years, so I guess prices have risen a little, but just like the jacks, the best price I can find now is several times what I was paying.  
So, does anyone know where to get a bunch of inexpensive pots?  I need about 100 100k, and 50 50k.

It looks like this hobby is a lot more expensive than it used to be a couple of years ago! ? !  I should have finished these modules back then!

Thanks!



From don at till.com  Mon Mar 23 15:21:13 2009
From: don at till.com (Donald Tillman)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:21:13 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] origin/s of osc sync/sync sweep
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903230233o21cbd29bi5ae9b86237dadb9c@mail.gmail.com>
	(message from cheater cheater on Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:33:07 +0000)
References: <9faab5e20903220323i2aff9ef0h704093b4c28c9ec7@mail.gmail.com>
	<27c5115d0903221745oc13de0ck89e2bbc86dcead1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C71A17.5090903@ameritech.net>
	<cf1e1cb10903230233o21cbd29bi5ae9b86237dadb9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2skl4tj52.fsf@till.com>


I believe that the first commercial synth with sync was the ARP
Odyessey.

Edgar Winter's Frankenstein is probably the first recording featuring
VCO sync.

All the old-style televisions (50's, 60's) used sync in their
horizontal and vertical oscillators, as did old style oscilloscopes
for their sweep oscillators.  And early FM radio stereo demodulation
circuits.  I don't think sync was ever an actual feature of analog
computers.

  -- Don

-- 
Don Tillman
Palo Alto, California
don at till.com
http://www.till.com


   > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:33:07 +0000
   > From: cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com>
   > 
   > I can bet you that sync existed in analogue computers before the moog.
   > 
   > On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:11 AM, John P <johnp299792 at ameritech.net> wrote:
   > > I would bet that the Moog 921 is the first oscillator to feature sync.
   > > The ARP 2500's 1004 T/P and 1023 oscillators didn't have it, nor did
   > > Buchla's oscillators of that period.
   > >
   > > Andrew Scheidler wrote:
   > >>
   > >> Don't know about the history part, but the sync sweep in "Neon Lights"
   > >> from
   > >> Man Machine (Kraftwerk) is probably my favorite ?:)
   > >>
   > >> Drew
   > >>
   > >> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Norman Fay <vietgrove at gmail.com> wrote:
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>>
   > >>> One for the historians on the list:
   > >>>
   > >>> What was the first electronic instrument to include oscillator sync?
   > >>>
   > >>> What is the earliest recorded instance of the sync sweep sound?
   > >>>
   > >>> Have at it...
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >
   > >
   > 
   > _______________________________________________
   > Synth-diy mailing list
   > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
   > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
   > 


From dave_3283 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar 23 15:31:38 2009
From: dave_3283 at sbcglobal.net (David Holt)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults
Message-ID: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I had the idea that it would be handy to build a mult with a string of jacks that only sent a signal to the next jack in line when a plug was inserted.? So, if you had, say 16 jacks in a row, and you plugged a source into #1, that signal would only go to #2 when a plug was inserted there.? That signal would pass on to # 3 when a plug was inserted there.? If you skip #4 no signal is passed on, so then a source plugged into #5 could then be passed on to #6 when a plug was inserted there.? This way, I'm not stuck with mulitples of 4.? It could be as few as 2, or as many as 16, as long as you skip a jack in the chain between multipled groups.

So, does this necessitate finding a switched jack that is normally open, and closes on contact?? I'm having a little trouble getting my brain all the way around this...

Thanks-
dave



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Mon Mar 23 15:43:36 2009
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:43:36 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer Source
In-Reply-To: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CA6@sol.wick.stl>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CA6@sol.wick.stl>
Message-ID: <49C7A018.7070407@bugbrand.co.uk>

Futurlec::: www.futurlec.com
16mm alpha pots
Brand new (not surplus)


Scott wrote:
> Hello,
> I've got another parts sourcing question.  So, just like the surplus jacks I asked about the other day, I used to be able to find little alpha potentiometers for about $.50 each at a couple of different surplus stores.  Both seem to be out.  It's been a couple of years, so I guess prices have risen a little, but just like the jacks, the best price I can find now is several times what I was paying.  
> So, does anyone know where to get a bunch of inexpensive pots?  I need about 100 100k, and 50 50k.
>
> It looks like this hobby is a lot more expensive than it used to be a couple of years ago! ? !  I should have finished these modules back then!
>
> Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.24/2018 - Release Date: 03/23/09 06:52:00
>
>   



From james at ticalun.net  Mon Mar 23 15:48:41 2009
From: james at ticalun.net (James R. Coplin)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:48:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults
In-Reply-To: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01a301c9abc6$75998740$60cc95c0$@net>

Sounds like the MOTM 910.

http://www.synthtech.com/motm910.html

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of David Holt
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:32 AM
To: synth-diy
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults


I had the idea that it would be handy to build a mult with a string of jacks
that only sent a signal to the next jack in line when a plug was inserted.?
So, if you had, say 16 jacks in a row, and you plugged a source into #1,
that signal would only go to #2 when a plug was inserted there.? That signal
would pass on to # 3 when a plug was inserted there.? If you skip #4 no
signal is passed on, so then a source plugged into #5 could then be passed
on to #6 when a plug was inserted there.? This way, I'm not stuck with
mulitples of 4.? It could be as few as 2, or as many as 16, as long as you
skip a jack in the chain between multipled groups.

So, does this necessitate finding a switched jack that is normally open, and
closes on contact?? I'm having a little trouble getting my brain all the way
around this...

Thanks-
dave

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 23 15:49:54 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:49:54 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults
In-Reply-To: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W3691FFD2B82E7AC005E57FF5920@phx.gbl>



Hey Dave,
I think that sounds like a good idea in addition to the normal groups of 4 multiples. And yes, you would need a normally open switch on the jacks. Though for the first jack, you wouldn't need a switch (because that's where everything starts anyway).
Has anyone thought to do multiples with attenuators on them?
-Ian Smith

> I had the idea that it would be handy to build a mult with a string of jacks that only sent a signal to the next jack in line when a plug was inserted.  So, if you had, say 16 jacks in a row, and you plugged a source into #1, that signal would only go to #2 when a plug was inserted there.  That signal would pass on to # 3 when a plug was inserted there.  If you skip #4 no signal is passed on, so then a source plugged into #5 could then be passed on to #6 when a plug was inserted there.  This way, I'm not stuck with mulitples of 4.  It could be as few as 2, or as many as 16, as long as you skip a jack in the chain between multipled groups.
>
> So, does this necessitate finding a switched jack that is normally open, and closes on contact?  I'm having a little trouble getting my brain all the way around this...
>
> Thanks-
> dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Internet Explorer 8 ? Now Available. Faster, safer, easier.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/141323790/direct/01/


From dave_3283 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar 23 15:57:02 2009
From: dave_3283 at sbcglobal.net (David Holt)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:57:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults
References: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<01a301c9abc6$75998740$60cc95c0$@net>
Message-ID: <726891.98299.qm@web81801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


While that's not it exactly, this is probably the way I'll go if I can figure this other way out.? It seems like the issue with the 910 is that there's always 3 jacks that are off limits, and they're always in groups of 4 (sorta).? In practice, though, this may really not be a concern.? There used to be a picture floating around of the wiring of the 910.? Does anyone know where it is?



----- Original Message ----
From: James R. Coplin <james at ticalun.net>
To: David Holt <dave_3283 at sbcglobal.net>; synth-diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:48:41 AM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults

Sounds like the MOTM 910.

http://www.synthtech.com/motm910.html

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of David Holt
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:32 AM
To: synth-diy
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults


I had the idea that it would be handy to build a mult with a string of jacks
that only sent a signal to the next jack in line when a plug was inserted.?
So, if you had, say 16 jacks in a row, and you plugged a source into #1,
that signal would only go to #2 when a plug was inserted there.? That signal
would pass on to # 3 when a plug was inserted there.? If you skip #4 no
signal is passed on, so then a source plugged into #5 could then be passed
on to #6 when a plug was inserted there.? This way, I'm not stuck with
mulitples of 4.? It could be as few as 2, or as many as 16, as long as you
skip a jack in the chain between multipled groups.

So, does this necessitate finding a switched jack that is normally open, and
closes on contact?? I'm having a little trouble getting my brain all the way
around this...

Thanks-
dave

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From profpep at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 23 16:20:23 2009
From: profpep at hotmail.com (Mike)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:20:23 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] origin/s of osc sync/sync sweep
References: <9faab5e20903220323i2aff9ef0h704093b4c28c9ec7@mail.gmail.com><27c5115d0903221745oc13de0ck89e2bbc86dcead1a@mail.gmail.com><49C71A17.5090903@ameritech.net><cf1e1cb10903230233o21cbd29bi5ae9b86237dadb9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<m2skl4tj52.fsf@till.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-DAV1FAF4BDA1FC2C823D2BD2A1920@phx.gbl>

The Electronics Associates TR 48 analogue computer I did some restoration
on, (I donated it to the Bletchley Park Museum when I moved house), had
integrator switching, and stepping which was a form of synchronisation. This
'stepped' all the integrators together at preset time intervals, and allowed
resets. There was a 'hold' button too. I think the compute times varied from
10's of milliseconds to seconds.

There is a picture of the 'compute control' panel here:
http://www.earlycomputers.com/cgi-bin/image-show1.cgi?33

and the full article/page here
http://www.earlycomputers.com/cgi-bin/item-report-main.cgi?20050803

This isn't the one I had - that's in the UK. The patching idea was cool too.
There were a batch of fancy front panels that you could pre-wire that were
then motor-locked into place. The big centre off rocker switch on the
control panel did that.

This event at the museum might be of interest:
http://www.tnmoc.org/36/section.aspx/61

Sadly, they didn't use the TR-48, though I reckon I could have got some good
dynmaical systems patches on it for synth work, But I gave it away in 2002,
before  my re-awakewned interest in analogue synths.

||\/||ike



From: "Donald Tillman"

>
> I believe that the first commercial synth with sync was the ARP
> Odyessey.
>
> Edgar Winter's Frankenstein is probably the first recording featuring
> VCO sync.
>
> All the old-style televisions (50's, 60's) used sync in their
> horizontal and vertical oscillators, as did old style oscilloscopes
> for their sweep oscillators.  And early FM radio stereo demodulation
> circuits.  I don't think sync was ever an actual feature of analog
> computers.
>
>   -- Don
>
> -- 
> Don Tillman
> Palo Alto, California
> don at till.com
> http://www.till.com
>
>
>    > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:33:07 +0000
>    > From: cheater cheater <cheater00 at gmail.com>
>    >
>    > I can bet you that sync existed in analogue computers before the
moog.
>    >
>    > On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:11 AM, John P <johnp299792 at ameritech.net>
wrote:
>    > > I would bet that the Moog 921 is the first oscillator to feature
sync.
>    > > The ARP 2500's 1004 T/P and 1023 oscillators didn't have it, nor
did
>    > > Buchla's oscillators of that period.
>    > >
>    > > Andrew Scheidler wrote:
>    > >>
>    > >> Don't know about the history part, but the sync sweep in "Neon
Lights"
>    > >> from
>    > >> Man Machine (Kraftwerk) is probably my favorite :)
>    > >>
>    > >> Drew
>    > >>
>    > >> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Norman Fay <vietgrove at gmail.com>
wrote:
>    > >>
>    > >>
>    > >>>
>    > >>> One for the historians on the list:
>    > >>>
>    > >>> What was the first electronic instrument to include oscillator
sync?
>    > >>>
>    > >>> What is the earliest recorded instance of the sync sweep sound?
>    > >>>
>    > >>> Have at it...
>    > >>>
>    > >>>
>    > >>
>    > >>
>    > >
>    > >
>    >
>    > _______________________________________________
>    > Synth-diy mailing list
>    > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>    > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>    >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Mon Mar 23 16:34:52 2009
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:34:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer Source
In-Reply-To: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CA6@sol.wick.stl>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CA6@sol.wick.stl>
Message-ID: <49C7AC1C.4090603@gte.net>

Hi Scott!

Try All Electronics in Los Angeles, they're pretty good!

http://www.allelectronics.com/

Best wishes!


Cynthia

http://www.cyndustries.com/



Scott wrote:
> Hello,
> I've got another parts sourcing question.  So, just like the surplus jacks I asked about the other day, I used to be able to find little alpha potentiometers for about $.50 each at a couple of different surplus stores.  Both seem to be out.  It's been a couple of years, so I guess prices have risen a little, but just like the jacks, the best price I can find now is several times what I was paying.  
> So, does anyone know where to get a bunch of inexpensive pots?  I need about 100 100k, and 50 50k.
>
> It looks like this hobby is a lot more expensive than it used to be a couple of years ago! ? !  I should have finished these modules back then!
>
> Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From altitude at optrand.com  Mon Mar 23 16:51:09 2009
From: altitude at optrand.com (Altitude)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:51:09 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
In-Reply-To: <726891.98299.qm@web81801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com><01a301c9abc6$75998740$60cc95c0$@net>
	<726891.98299.qm@web81801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c9abcf$301e1e70$6701a8c0@optrand.com>

Not quite sure what these are called but what I am looking for is hardware
to securely mount a PCB at a 90 deg angle to a front panel.  Suggestions?

Cheers
Raph



From Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com  Mon Mar 23 17:07:22 2009
From: Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:07:22 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
In-Reply-To: <000601c9abcf$301e1e70$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
References: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com><01a301c9abc6$75998740$60cc95c0$@net><726891.98299.qm@web81801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<000601c9abcf$301e1e70$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
Message-ID: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102E233C0@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>

Hi,

> Not quite sure what these are called but what I am looking for is
hardware
> to securely mount a PCB at a 90 deg angle to a front panel.
Suggestions?

They're called brackets.

How securely depends on how much space you have. I use some 12x17.5x17.5
mm brackets from Farnell:

http://uk.farnell.com/_/b3001/bracket-mounting-90deg-12x17-5mm/dp/146318
?_requestid=650059
-- 
Jason Tribbeck



From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Mon Mar 23 17:19:44 2009
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:19:44 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <000301c9ab13$67c8f000$375ad000$@net>
References: <200903221701.n2MH1iaX007738@linux7.lan>
	<000301c9ab13$67c8f000$375ad000$@net>
Message-ID: <001e01c9abd3$2db67070$89235150$@com>

A little note on this topic of 'Wallwarts'.  Wallwarts, generally speaking comply with something called SELV (Safe extra low voltage).  The (-) output from a wallwart is not grounded and can assume a wide range of potentials depending on what it connects to.  This is a safety feature providing an additional level of isolation between you and the mains.  
	If you tie the (-) terminal of your wallwart to ground you will no longer be able to call your equipment SELV compliant but may be able to meet something called FELV (functional extra low voltage).  For instruments you will sell its just worth considering this.  George

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of James R. Coplin
Sent: 22 March 2009 17:27
To: music.maker at gte.net; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

Thanks all!  I got it now.

James R. Coplin  

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Scott Gravenhorst
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 12:02 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

"James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
>I think I understand where I'm getting confused. A two wire 9v 
>supply with a + and - polarity is actually just delivering +9v 
>and ground, not + and - 9v. Is this correct? If so, why do they 
>call it negative instead of ground? Seems confusing to me... 

Yes! correct!

It's called - because it is more negative than the other wire.

If you look at a dry cell, one side is labeled +, the other side is labeled -.  Same deal.


>James R. Coplin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net] 
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:39 AM
>To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>If you already have +V DC and -V DC and ground (three wires coming out of 
>the wallwart) you already have a bipolar power supply and you would not need 
>an MFOS wall wart board.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
>To: "'Ray Wilson'" <raywilson at comcast.net>; "'SDIY'" 
><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:56 PM
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it 
>up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to 
>get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I 
>already have a supply with +/-9v DC.
>
>James R. Coplin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:34 PM
>To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>Hi James
>
>The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is relative
>to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of
>the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply
>output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to
>"earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart which
>is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the
>plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of
>it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all you
>can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the
>secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the
>secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.
>
>The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
>http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Ray Wilson
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
>To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
>Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>> So, I???m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I want
>> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply
>> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it
>> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and ground
>> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the
>> wallwart supply?
>>
>> James R. Coplin
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Mon Mar 23 17:39:18 2009
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:39:18 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer Source
In-Reply-To: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CA6@sol.wick.stl>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CA6@sol.wick.stl>
Message-ID: <20090323163917.GW25810@moo.sysabend.org>

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 09:18:31AM -0500, Scott wrote:
> Hello,
> I've got another parts sourcing question.  So, just like the surplus jacks I asked about the other day, I used to be able to find little alpha potentiometers for about $.50 each at a couple of different surplus stores.  Both seem to be out.  It's been a couple of years, so I guess prices have risen a little, but just like the jacks, the best price I can find now is several times what I was paying.  
> So, does anyone know where to get a bunch of inexpensive pots?  I need about 100 100k, and 50 50k.
> 
> It looks like this hobby is a lot more expensive than it used to be a couple of years ago! ? !  I should have finished these modules back then!

http://www.smallbearelec.com

One of the better selections of Alpha pots available and prices drop
dramatically with quantity *and* multiple values of the same model part
count towards quantity...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -
 - BBD Fanatic      -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?" 
 - echo evho wjxo   -    Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference?" 
 --------------------  



From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon Mar 23 18:44:22 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:44:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer Source
In-Reply-To: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CA6@sol.wick.stl>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CA6@sol.wick.stl>
Message-ID: <F688EF61-DB31-4E9B-BA22-3C33DC842302@electricdruid.net>

Steve Carter posted to this list a few days ago with a load of cheap  
100K pots that he's put on eBay.co.uk.

Search for Item number 220379318602, 100 Brand New Alps  
Potentiometers 100K Lin.

These are the smaller Alps PCB mount pots, so might not be exactly  
what you're after. At this price though...

T.


On 23 Mar 2009, at 14:18, Scott wrote:

> Hello,
> I've got another parts sourcing question.  So, just like the  
> surplus jacks I asked about the other day, I used to be able to  
> find little alpha potentiometers for about $.50 each at a couple of  
> different surplus stores.  Both seem to be out.  It's been a couple  
> of years, so I guess prices have risen a little, but just like the  
> jacks, the best price I can find now is several times what I was  
> paying.
> So, does anyone know where to get a bunch of inexpensive pots?  I  
> need about 100 100k, and 50 50k.
>
> It looks like this hobby is a lot more expensive than it used to be  
> a couple of years ago! ? !  I should have finished these modules  
> back then!
>
> Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Mon Mar 23 19:19:57 2009
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Laurie Biddulph)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 05:19:57 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
References: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com><01a301c9abc6$75998740$60cc95c0$@net><726891.98299.qm@web81801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<000601c9abcf$301e1e70$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
Message-ID: <01996CFDF0D64D1A91236590E7008EC2@OFFICE>

Ray at MFOS has a custom L-bracket for exactly this purpose

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Altitude" <altitude at optrand.com>
To: "'synth-diy'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:51 AM
Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?


> Not quite sure what these are called but what I am looking for is hardware
> to securely mount a PCB at a 90 deg angle to a front panel.  Suggestions?
>
> Cheers
> Raph
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 




From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 23 19:48:58 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:48:58 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <49C3EEFA.2000503@gte.net>
References: <BAY141-W54F45B1F56F8DD806A749EF5970@phx.gbl>
	<49C3EEFA.2000503@gte.net>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W35584C84CE93B4BBE19EBEF5920@phx.gbl>


Hi all,

Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up for that pseudo-random tone generator.

http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf

If there's anything anyone can think of to add to it feature-wise that would make it a decent module, I'm open to suggestions. (trigger outputs, different waveforms, multiple voices in one package, etc.)

Thanks again,

-Ian

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:31:06 -0700
> From: cynthia.webster at gte.net
> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>
> Hi Ian!
>
> Have a look for some possible inspiration at Synapse Magazine May/June
> 1977 here:
>
> http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/intro.cfm
>
> (the one with Bob Moog on the cover)
>
> There's a DIY article on Phil Lori's Digital DroneZilla with Random Raga
> Logic
> what I believe is that you need several of the voice circuits shown
> hooked up to a random 4 bit digital number generator
> (which as I remember, is not shown). I'd love to do a run of those
> boards someday as the unitz sounded truly great!
>
> Best Wishes!
>
>
> Cynthia
>
> http://www.cyndustries.com/
>
>
>
>
> Ian Smith wrote:
>> Hey all,
>> A while back I posted something about working on a random tone generator, begging for a link to the hand drawn schematics, and saying that I was working on digitizing them to make them a bit easier to read.
>> Well, time passes, I lost the link... again... but I have a print out sitting on my desk, and I've put a highly modified version into Eagle to brush up on my PCB skills.
>> I haven't actually tested the circuit yet (just not enough time between classes) but it's completely based on CMOS chips at the moment.
>> I'd love to get someone's opinion on the thing so far, but I'm not quite sure how to post documents to the list.
>> The other thing I'm wondering is, if this were to be a module, what would you want it to have in addition to the tone output?
>> Thanks for your time,
>> -Ian
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?.
>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>

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From dbarton at pacbell.net  Mon Mar 23 20:27:11 2009
From: dbarton at pacbell.net (db)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:27:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <001301c9ab65$35c9bd30$a15d3790$@net>
References: <49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
	<439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
	<49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323122559.00c2e9b0@pop.att.yahoo.com>

At 3/22/2009 08:12 PM, David Ingebretsen wrote:
>The power connector is held in place by a magnet. There is no 
>"male/female" connection in the traditional sense. There are two "buttons" 
>on the laptop and two buttons on the end of the cord on a small squarish 
>connector. I don't know if there are two magnets or one magnet and a small 
>piece of iron, but when you bring the connector buttons close to the 
>laptop buttons, they snap together.

snapjack cables

http://www.zzounds.com/item--JODSNAPAJACK


dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]






From dbarton at pacbell.net  Mon Mar 23 20:34:36 2009
From: dbarton at pacbell.net (db)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:34:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>


I have a wallwart suppling 9vdc to a 7805 to reduce to 5v.
All seems to work fine.

Do I need capacitors on the 7805 5v out to gnd?
The circuits I see all have some, but this seems to be ok without any.

dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]






From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Mon Mar 23 21:12:51 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:12:51 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks and one more wire question: 22 gauge v. 24 gauge
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323122559.00c2e9b0@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
	<439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
	<49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323122559.00c2e9b0@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c9abf3$beb07dd0$3c117970$@net>

Thanks to all for the advice on ground wires and shielding. 

One more question, is there an advantage to using 22 gauge versus 24 gauge?
The 24 gauge is rated 60 volts, 4.3 amps, and I have a boat load of 24 gauge
hook-up wire I'd like to use. And, it is easier to work with especially in
densely populated panels. However, in a kit I am building, the instructions
say to use 22 gauge wire to hook up the jacks/pots. Why?

David

David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121
www.CFandE.com

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net





From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Mar 23 21:30:20 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:30:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] electronics library or obsession?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W33FF80C9C00861A523DA5FC8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0KGZ00FAJ7MKX4@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Seeing Dan's book stash has reminded me of something.  I was at a used
bookstore in little Jackson, California last week, and found a brilliant
little book: 

Active-Filter Cookbook, by Dan Lancaster.  

I have been checking out and reading many "university-level" books on
filters from UBC library, trying to make sense of this whole filter issue,
and while they all have their merits, none of them even mentions
voltage-controlled filters.  The Lancaster book has a whole section on VCFs,
and even shows exactly how to hook up an OTA to control a state-variable
filter (and why).  Heck, he even has a couple of pictures from the old PAiA
catalog!  The book is also a whole lot more straightforward regarding the
mathematics behind filters.  Really, unless one is majoring in EE, this
brilliant little book is all one needs to understand and design active
filters.  All the other books are going straight back to the library!

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:16 AM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] electronics library or obsession?
> 
> 
> 
> this weekend my wife was pestering me to clean up my junk around the
> house.
> 
> The result of which is that now I got all my electronics books sort of
> organized.
> 
> Sadly, my binders (including electronotes) are all too tall to fit.
> 
> 
> 
> anyway...looking at these really makes me smile when I know how many ideas
> they contain!
> 
> now i just need to figure out what other books to ADD!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13918667 at N02/sets/72157615711942489/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
>  http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Mon Mar 23 21:34:39 2009
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:34:39 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
In-Reply-To: <001e01c9abd3$2db67070$89235150$@com>
References: <200903221701.n2MH1iaX007738@linux7.lan><000301c9ab13$67c8f000$375ad000$@net>
	<001e01c9abd3$2db67070$89235150$@com>
Message-ID: <6B16794FD98610449F66759BBF503D400278E3D4@wdscexbe03.sc.wdc.com>

Ahhh, this is now entering the realm of work-related discussion, so I 
no longer feel guilt reading these discussions at work(!)
This "feature" also comes along with an added "feature" - leakage across the
transformer windings cause a ~60VAC potential DC output ground compared to
wall ground.  Perhaps worse internationally?  This leakage is current
limited to what are perceived as safe levels but I have seen some of them
make a pretty visible spark upon ground contact.
Most DC plugs have the center "hot" V+, although I have heard that many
guitar effects have it the other way around - center ground.

Anyway, here is my scenario:
My plug is hot center.  Due to common receptacle design, the center makes
first then the ground.  There is a switch option on the receptacle to make
connection with the ground wiper until the plug is pressed in - but the
switch is not used - it is connected to pcb ground too.  

I am wondering if a person were to hot plug this DC plug to a product which
already has a USB or other interface connection made to a PC or other host,
if then this AC potential can then pass through the product's DC Vin and
cause serious havoc in worstcase scenario to components.  The supply itself
is dependant on normal loading - what happens to its regulation circuitry
here?  If the switch were to be wired to short the center pin to ground, the
product would be protected - but the supply may not be.(?)

Any input on this or how line voltages and/or transients can cause wallwart
failure? Seems most adapters now are very similar in design with a
controller IC and optoisolated secondary feedback, along with SCR
overvoltage protection.  What is curious is that the controller IC usually
does not have overvoltage protection and has a Vdd max. of 20V or so...

Barry


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of George Hearn
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:20 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

A little note on this topic of 'Wallwarts'.  Wallwarts, generally speaking
comply with something called SELV (Safe extra low voltage).  The (-) output
from a wallwart is not grounded and can assume a wide range of potentials
depending on what it connects to.  This is a safety feature providing an
additional level of isolation between you and the mains.  
	If you tie the (-) terminal of your wallwart to ground you will no
longer be able to call your equipment SELV compliant but may be able to meet
something called FELV (functional extra low voltage).  For instruments you
will sell its just worth considering this.  George

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of James R. Coplin
Sent: 22 March 2009 17:27
To: music.maker at gte.net; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

Thanks all!  I got it now.

James R. Coplin  

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Scott Gravenhorst
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 12:02 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?

"James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
>I think I understand where I'm getting confused. A two wire 9v 
>supply with a + and - polarity is actually just delivering +9v 
>and ground, not + and - 9v. Is this correct? If so, why do they 
>call it negative instead of ground? Seems confusing to me... 

Yes! correct!

It's called - because it is more negative than the other wire.

If you look at a dry cell, one side is labeled +, the other side is labeled
-.  Same deal.


>James R. Coplin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net] 
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:39 AM
>To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>If you already have +V DC and -V DC and ground (three wires coming out of 
>the wallwart) you already have a bipolar power supply and you would not
need 
>an MFOS wall wart board.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
>To: "'Ray Wilson'" <raywilson at comcast.net>; "'SDIY'" 
><synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:56 PM
>Subject: RE: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>What if the wallwart is already putting out +/-9v *DC* how would I hook it 
>up?  I think it would be easier to deal with the AC as I understand how to 
>get DC and a relative ground from that, I'm just not sure what to do if I 
>already have a supply with +/-9v DC.
>
>James R. Coplin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Wilson [mailto:raywilson at comcast.net]
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:34 PM
>To: James R. Coplin; 'SDIY'
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>Hi James
>
>The MFOS wall wart supply board does supply a ground. The supply is
relative
>to itself and supplies +V, -V and ground (which is the center potential of
>the 2 voltages). If you measure from the board's ground to either supply
>output you get the appropriate voltage. It does not supply a connection to
>"earth ground" since that is one of the benefits of using a wall wart which
>is essentially a transformer with the line side (primary) connected to the
>plug prongs and the secondary connected to the two wires that come out of
>it. The MFOS wall wart supply uses half wave rectification (which is all
you
>can get from a non-center tapper secondary) to take one side of the
>secondary get + and - voltage with two diodes, while the other side of the
>secondary becomes the relative ground of the output.
>
>The page explains the whole idea behind the design too.
>http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPL
Y.php
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Ray Wilson
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "James R. Coplin" <james at ticalun.net>
>To: "'SDIY'" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:24 AM
>Subject: [sdiy] Wallwarts and ground?
>
>
>> So, I???m helping a friend finish up his MFOS Sound Lab project and I
want
>> to run it off of a 9v wall wart instead of batteries.  The power supply
>> delivers +/-9v but no dedicated ground.  I guess I never thought about it
>> as I always just use the power supply for my modular so voltage and
ground
>> paths are always there.  What do I do to provide a ground with the
>> wallwart supply?
>>
>> James R. Coplin
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Mar 23 21:37:01 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:37:01 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer Source
In-Reply-To: <49C7A018.7070407@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0KGZ00A0D7XPTT@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Are these Futurlec pots really Alpha, as in Taiwan Alpha,
www.taiwanalpha.com, and not some cheaper knockoff?  If so, they will say
ALPHA on the back.

I've had very bad luck with 16mm pots with unmarked gold-coloured bodies
(sometimes with identifying stickers on them that say something like
"Ch.T"), whereas all the Alphas I've bought (from Small Bear) have been
perfect.  They cost a little bit more, though (it works out to about $2 more
per module on average).

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Tom Bugs
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:44 AM
> To: Scott
> Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Potentiometer Source
> 
> Futurlec::: www.futurlec.com
> 16mm alpha pots
> Brand new (not surplus)
> 
> 
> Scott wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I've got another parts sourcing question.  So, just like the surplus
> jacks I asked about the other day, I used to be able to find little alpha
> potentiometers for about $.50 each at a couple of different surplus
> stores.  Both seem to be out.  It's been a couple of years, so I guess
> prices have risen a little, but just like the jacks, the best price I can
> find now is several times what I was paying.
> > So, does anyone know where to get a bunch of inexpensive pots?  I need
> about 100 100k, and 50 50k.
> >
> > It looks like this hobby is a lot more expensive than it used to be a
> couple of years ago! ? !  I should have finished these modules back then!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.24/2018 - Release Date:
> 03/23/09 06:52:00
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Mar 23 21:52:41 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:52:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
In-Reply-To: <000601c9abcf$301e1e70$6701a8c0@optrand.com>
Message-ID: <0KGZ00EAZ8NS7V@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Hey Raph,

I use something called a "stooge bracket" which is an idea I ripped off from
Thomas White's website (www.naturalrhythmmusic.com) and MOTM
(www.synthtech.com).  Basically, I take pieces of 1/32" steel (stainless is
nice), cut it as long as the PCB, and about 2" wider.  Then I punch two or
three holes about 3/8" diameter in it about 3/4" from one edge to correspond
to pots on the panel, and four 1/8" holes for mounting the PCB.  Finally, I
bend the sheet at a right angle about 3/4" below where the bottom edge of
the PCB will be.  What I end up with is the PCB sitting perpendicular to the
front panel, screwed firmly to the stooge bracket in four places (with
plastic spacers, of course) and facing parts-side up, with the bracket held
firmly in place by two or three pots (depending on how long the PCB is).
There is typically about 1/4" clearance between the PCB and the back of the
pots.  The only caveat is not to extend the PCB down as far as the jacks (I
use an approximate version of the MOTM format, so all jacks are at the
bottom of the panel, and this is typically not a problem).

Of course, the MOTM ones are fancier (I think they are actually affixed to
the front panel with some type of screw or rivet), but mine are totally DIY
and work just fine.  I have access to a hand punch and a bending brake in my
department machine shop, which makes it that much more convenient, although
more or less the same effect can be had with a drill press and a vice.

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Altitude
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:51 AM
> To: 'synth-diy'
> Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
> 
> Not quite sure what these are called but what I am looking for is hardware
> to securely mount a PCB at a 90 deg angle to a front panel.  Suggestions?
> 
> Cheers
> Raph
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Mon Mar 23 21:52:42 2009
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (harrybissell at wowway.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:52:42 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090323205143.M17183@wowway.com>

Best to read the data sheet and do what they recommend. You need a cap near
the output terminal to prevent instability in some conditions...

H^) harry



On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:34:36 -0700, db wrote
> I have a wallwart suppling 9vdc to a 7805 to reduce to 5v.
> All seems to work fine.
> 
> Do I need capacitors on the 7805 5v out to gnd?
> The circuits I see all have some, but this seems to be ok without any.
> 
> dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar 23 21:54:06 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:54:06 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Thanks and one more wire question: 22 gauge v. 24 gauge
Message-ID: <63862.213.84.181.38.1237841646.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


David Ingebretsen schreef:
> Thanks to all for the advice on ground wires and shielding.
>
> One more question, is there an advantage to using 22 gauge versus 24
> gauge?
> The 24 gauge is rated 60 volts, 4.3 amps, and I have a boat load of 24
> gauge
> hook-up wire I'd like to use. And, it is easier to work with especially in
> densely populated panels. However, in a kit I am building, the
> instructions
> say to use 22 gauge wire to hook up the jacks/pots. Why?


I'd use the thinnest wire that is mechanically strong enough. Its series
resistance will be negligible to that of the circuit it connects to. And
while we were discussing shielding: the thinner the wire, the less its
capacitance, so it will also be less sensitive to pick up interference.




-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Mon Mar 23 22:01:41 2009
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:01:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Cliff Group in Administration & Frunkfurt
References: <CLIFF-SERVER33tYwli0000062a@cliffuk.co.uk>
Message-ID: <72861FB6-14C9-4869-9B96-0F6FAA0C939C@ntlworld.com>

All,

For those with an interest in Cliff Components:

> Subject: Cliff Group in Administration & Frunkfurt
>
> We would like to assure all our customers that for Cliff Electronic  
> Components Ltd it?s ?business as usual?.
>
> However a company called Cliff Group Ltd, previously known as Cliff  
> Plastics Ltd, has gone into Administration.  They also manufactured  
> for the automotive industry.
>
> There was no financial or Directorial relationship between us and  
> Cliff Group Ltd or Cliff Plastics Ltd.
>
> Cliff Group Ltd acted as an assembly subcontractor for us and we  
> are now retrieving our tooling and components etc.  The  
> manufacturing equipment  will be installed at our Redhill premises  
> and we are taking all care possible to try and minimise disruption  
> to the small number of products involved.
>
> Please be advised that we are attending Prolight and Sound in  
> Frankfurt, as usual, and would be pleased to meet with you to  
> discuss this matter and our recently expanded product ranges.

Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk






From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar 23 22:03:24 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:03:24 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
Message-ID: <63938.213.84.181.38.1237842204.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


db schreef:
>
> I have a wallwart suppling 9vdc to a 7805 to reduce to 5v.
> All seems to work fine.
>
> Do I need capacitors on the 7805 5v out to gnd?
> The circuits I see all have some, but this seems to be ok without any.

It will reduce noise and improve line regulation, but it is not strictly
necessary.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Mon Mar 23 22:10:54 2009
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragons)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:10:54 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C7FADE.90806@googlemail.com>

Hi,
I think it would be a good idea, even if things seem ok without them.
after all they shouldn't be that expensive.
regards Peter

db wrote:
> 
> I have a wallwart suppling 9vdc to a 7805 to reduce to 5v.
> All seems to work fine.
> 
> Do I need capacitors on the 7805 5v out to gnd?
> The circuits I see all have some, but this seems to be ok without any.
> 
> dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From cynthia.webster at gte.net  Mon Mar 23 22:14:56 2009
From: cynthia.webster at gte.net (Cynthia Webster)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:14:56 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
In-Reply-To: <0KGZ00EAZ8NS7V@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KGZ00EAZ8NS7V@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49C7FBD0.9040704@gte.net>

I generally use a part from mouser electronics ...

534-621

mouser.com

I use 4-40 screws and threaded 4-40 one inch tall standoffs from mouser too

Cynthia






David G. Dixon wrote:
> Hey Raph,
>
> I use something called a "stooge bracket" which is an idea I ripped off from
> Thomas White's website (www.naturalrhythmmusic.com) and MOTM
> (www.synthtech.com).  Basically, I take pieces of 1/32" steel (stainless is
> nice), cut it as long as the PCB, and about 2" wider.  Then I punch two or
> three holes about 3/8" diameter in it about 3/4" from one edge to correspond
> to pots on the panel, and four 1/8" holes for mounting the PCB.  Finally, I
> bend the sheet at a right angle about 3/4" below where the bottom edge of
> the PCB will be.  What I end up with is the PCB sitting perpendicular to the
> front panel, screwed firmly to the stooge bracket in four places (with
> plastic spacers, of course) and facing parts-side up, with the bracket held
> firmly in place by two or three pots (depending on how long the PCB is).
> There is typically about 1/4" clearance between the PCB and the back of the
> pots.  The only caveat is not to extend the PCB down as far as the jacks (I
> use an approximate version of the MOTM format, so all jacks are at the
> bottom of the panel, and this is typically not a problem).
>
> Of course, the MOTM ones are fancier (I think they are actually affixed to
> the front panel with some type of screw or rivet), but mine are totally DIY
> and work just fine.  I have access to a hand punch and a bending brake in my
> department machine shop, which makes it that much more convenient, although
> more or less the same effect can be had with a drill press and a vice.
>
> David G. Dixon
> Professor
> Department of Materials Engineering
> University of British Columbia
> 309-6350 Stores Road
> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> Canada
>  
> Tel 1-604-822-3679
> Fax 1-604-822-3619
>  
> "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
>  
> The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
> intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
> must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
> are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
> copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
>> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Altitude
>> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:51 AM
>> To: 'synth-diy'
>> Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
>>
>> Not quite sure what these are called but what I am looking for is hardware
>> to securely mount a PCB at a 90 deg angle to a front panel.  Suggestions?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Raph
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 23 22:27:02 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:27:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
Message-ID: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>



can i make a 3v zener out of a higher voltage zener (3..9) or out of lower volt diodes?

i need the 3v zener quite badly

thanks
--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page






From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Mar 23 22:30:50 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:30:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
In-Reply-To: <49C7FBD0.9040704@gte.net>
Message-ID: <0KGZ00FVJAFEX4@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Raph,

You might also take a look at www.synthesizers.com.  They typically mount
their PCBs parallel to the front panel, and just put the mounting screws
right through the panel.  They can get away with this because their panels
are generally a fair bit wider than the MOTM standard 1U or 2U.  They use
black screws in a black panel, and the screw heads are countersunk, so they
are at least flush with the panel, although they do tend to be in fairly
random locations.  They also use pretty long standoffs so that panel
components don't interfere with anything.  Personally, I don't find this
method to be very elegant, but it does make for a fairly thin module.

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cynthia Webster [mailto:cynthia.webster at gte.net]
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:15 PM
> To: David G. Dixon
> Cc: 'Altitude'; 'synth-diy'
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
> 
> I generally use a part from mouser electronics ...
> 
> 534-621
> 
> mouser.com
> 
> I use 4-40 screws and threaded 4-40 one inch tall standoffs from mouser
> too
> 
> Cynthia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David G. Dixon wrote:
> > Hey Raph,
> >
> > I use something called a "stooge bracket" which is an idea I ripped off
> from
> > Thomas White's website (www.naturalrhythmmusic.com) and MOTM
> > (www.synthtech.com).  Basically, I take pieces of 1/32" steel (stainless
> is
> > nice), cut it as long as the PCB, and about 2" wider.  Then I punch two
> or
> > three holes about 3/8" diameter in it about 3/4" from one edge to
> correspond
> > to pots on the panel, and four 1/8" holes for mounting the PCB.
> Finally, I
> > bend the sheet at a right angle about 3/4" below where the bottom edge
> of
> > the PCB will be.  What I end up with is the PCB sitting perpendicular to
> the
> > front panel, screwed firmly to the stooge bracket in four places (with
> > plastic spacers, of course) and facing parts-side up, with the bracket
> held
> > firmly in place by two or three pots (depending on how long the PCB is).
> > There is typically about 1/4" clearance between the PCB and the back of
> the
> > pots.  The only caveat is not to extend the PCB down as far as the jacks
> (I
> > use an approximate version of the MOTM format, so all jacks are at the
> > bottom of the panel, and this is typically not a problem).
> >
> > Of course, the MOTM ones are fancier (I think they are actually affixed
> to
> > the front panel with some type of screw or rivet), but mine are totally
> DIY
> > and work just fine.  I have access to a hand punch and a bending brake
> in my
> > department machine shop, which makes it that much more convenient,
> although
> > more or less the same effect can be had with a drill press and a vice.
> >
> > David G. Dixon
> > Professor
> > Department of Materials Engineering
> > University of British Columbia
> > 309-6350 Stores Road
> > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> > Canada
> >
> > Tel 1-604-822-3679
> > Fax 1-604-822-3619
> >
> > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> >
> > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
> > intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
> > must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If
> you
> > are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering
> it to
> > the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
> > copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> >> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Altitude
> >> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:51 AM
> >> To: 'synth-diy'
> >> Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
> >>
> >> Not quite sure what these are called but what I am looking for is
> hardware
> >> to securely mount a PCB at a 90 deg angle to a front panel.
> Suggestions?
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Raph
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >



From matt at smiffytech.com  Mon Mar 23 22:36:15 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:06:15 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W568A45F7DAF80C56771ED9C8920@phx.gbl>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
	<49C6E7C7.8030203@smiffytech.com>
	<BAY144-W568A45F7DAF80C56771ED9C8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C800CF.3070804@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Dan Snazelle at 2009-03-23 22:50...
> my laptop has a dc  wallwart adapter...which then plugs into a dc connector.

So there are two possible issues that I can think of - the connector
coming unsoldered as I suggested earlier or the connector being broken
internally.  Either way, you (or someone) will need to get at that
connector.

> my fear of opening the laptop up is figuring out how to open it without messing up the screen,etc.

Just be careful unhooking and re-connecting any of the ribbon cables
inside.  These are generally the type where the conductors are printed
onto plastic.  The connectors they go into frequently have a little
latch thingy that has to be released first - just yanking at the cable
is asking for trouble.

> i have already bought 2 new wallwarts so i am pretty sure it is a bad connector inside
> 
> you make it sound easy though

Generally, it is - but will depend entirely on make/model.  If it's a
ThinkPad, there's a reasonable chance that you should be able to Google
for and download a service manual.  Otherwise you will have to work it
out yourself.

A few tips:

1) Give yourself plenty of time.

3) Disconnect from power and remove battery before even thinking about
opening the case.

4) Do this with the lid SHUT.  You may need to open it to remove some
bits, but this is a good starting point.

5) There might be a lot of screws and of different lengths.  These will
mostly be on the base.  Sometimes there are some on the back near the
connectors.  Have a piece of paper or something so that you can tell
what length screw goes back in what hole.

Sometimes the case is embossed by the screw holes with little icons
showing what the screws reveal - which ones to take out to remove the
keyboard, for example.  Odds are, to get at the power connector, you'll
need to take ALL of them off.

6) Take photographs, lots of photographs, as you take it apart.  These
can be invaluable when it comes to putting it back together!

7) Whilst you've got it open, check round the cooling system for dust
and fluff.

8) You may find that Googling for your model with other appropriate
terms may even get you a 'how to' for disassembly, possibly with
photographs.

As I say, these are just general guidelines.  I'm assuming that as an
SDIYer you will have disassembled and reassembled enough gear now to be
comfortable with the mechanics of it.  Big difference between opening up
a synth and opening up a laptop is size/fiddliness.

If in doubt though, seek assistance.  (If you know someone experienced
in this who is willing to show you how, could be valuable education.)

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Mon Mar 23 22:44:08 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:44:08 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
In-Reply-To: <5082_1237843908_1237843908_0KGZ00FVJAFEX4@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <0KGZ00I71B1KH0@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

...actually, I was wrong.  Synthesizers.com does NOT use countersunk screws
to mount the PCB to the front panel, so the screw heads DO stick out of the
panel.

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of David G. Dixon
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:31 PM
> To: 'Cynthia Webster'
> Cc: 'synth-diy'
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
> 
> Raph,
> 
> You might also take a look at www.synthesizers.com.  They typically mount
> their PCBs parallel to the front panel, and just put the mounting screws
> right through the panel.  They can get away with this because their panels
> are generally a fair bit wider than the MOTM standard 1U or 2U.  They use
> black screws in a black panel, and the screw heads are countersunk, so
> they
> are at least flush with the panel, although they do tend to be in fairly
> random locations.  They also use pretty long standoffs so that panel
> components don't interfere with anything.  Personally, I don't find this
> method to be very elegant, but it does make for a fairly thin module.
> 
> David G. Dixon
> Professor
> Department of Materials Engineering
> University of British Columbia
> 309-6350 Stores Road
> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> Canada
> 
> Tel 1-604-822-3679
> Fax 1-604-822-3619
> 
> "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> 
> The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
> intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
> must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If
> you
> are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it
> to
> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
> copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cynthia Webster [mailto:cynthia.webster at gte.net]
> > Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:15 PM
> > To: David G. Dixon
> > Cc: 'Altitude'; 'synth-diy'
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
> >
> > I generally use a part from mouser electronics ...
> >
> > 534-621
> >
> > mouser.com
> >
> > I use 4-40 screws and threaded 4-40 one inch tall standoffs from mouser
> > too
> >
> > Cynthia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David G. Dixon wrote:
> > > Hey Raph,
> > >
> > > I use something called a "stooge bracket" which is an idea I ripped
> off
> > from
> > > Thomas White's website (www.naturalrhythmmusic.com) and MOTM
> > > (www.synthtech.com).  Basically, I take pieces of 1/32" steel
> (stainless
> > is
> > > nice), cut it as long as the PCB, and about 2" wider.  Then I punch
> two
> > or
> > > three holes about 3/8" diameter in it about 3/4" from one edge to
> > correspond
> > > to pots on the panel, and four 1/8" holes for mounting the PCB.
> > Finally, I
> > > bend the sheet at a right angle about 3/4" below where the bottom edge
> > of
> > > the PCB will be.  What I end up with is the PCB sitting perpendicular
> to
> > the
> > > front panel, screwed firmly to the stooge bracket in four places (with
> > > plastic spacers, of course) and facing parts-side up, with the bracket
> > held
> > > firmly in place by two or three pots (depending on how long the PCB
> is).
> > > There is typically about 1/4" clearance between the PCB and the back
> of
> > the
> > > pots.  The only caveat is not to extend the PCB down as far as the
> jacks
> > (I
> > > use an approximate version of the MOTM format, so all jacks are at the
> > > bottom of the panel, and this is typically not a problem).
> > >
> > > Of course, the MOTM ones are fancier (I think they are actually
> affixed
> > to
> > > the front panel with some type of screw or rivet), but mine are
> totally
> > DIY
> > > and work just fine.  I have access to a hand punch and a bending brake
> > in my
> > > department machine shop, which makes it that much more convenient,
> > although
> > > more or less the same effect can be had with a drill press and a vice.
> > >
> > > David G. Dixon
> > > Professor
> > > Department of Materials Engineering
> > > University of British Columbia
> > > 309-6350 Stores Road
> > > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
> > > Canada
> > >
> > > Tel 1-604-822-3679
> > > Fax 1-604-822-3619
> > >
> > > "PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> > >
> > > The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential
> and
> > > intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).
> It
> > > must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.
> If
> > you
> > > are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering
> > it to
> > > the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not
> disclose,
> > > copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> > >> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Altitude
> > >> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:51 AM
> > >> To: 'synth-diy'
> > >> Subject: [sdiy] Right angle mounts for 90 deg mounting?
> > >>
> > >> Not quite sure what these are called but what I am looking for is
> > hardware
> > >> to securely mount a PCB at a 90 deg angle to a front panel.
> > Suggestions?
> > >>
> > >> Cheers
> > >> Raph
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Synth-diy mailing list
> > >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > >
> > >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Mon Mar 23 22:45:48 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:45:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C8030C.5030805@makenoisemusic.com>

I have seen where people have used 1N4148 (or similar) in series to 
achieve a zener voltage. Probably not the greatest solution, but it 
might be passable in your situation. General purpose diodes tend to vary 
quite a bit with temperature and current.

Tony

Dan Snazelle wrote:
> can i make a 3v zener out of a higher voltage zener (3..9) or out of lower volt diodes?
>
> i need the 3v zener quite badly
>
> thanks
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
>  http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
> (updated monthly)
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
> AUDIO ARK:
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Mon Mar 23 22:51:35 2009
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:51:35 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C80467.6050406@imt.net>

I think I have some 3V ones in stock. If you are using it in a regulator 
of course, you can always add series diodes from say a 3.9V source (ie. 
that zener with a resistor in series to provide enough current for 
supply needed to drive the regulating transistor or op amp or whatever) 
to the base of the transistor etc. And just series enough of them to get 
the voltage where you want it there.  This of course will have some 
current dependency and won't be real precise. -Bob

Dan Snazelle wrote:

>can i make a 3v zener out of a higher voltage zener (3..9) or out of lower volt diodes?
>
>i need the 3v zener quite badly
>
>thanks
>--------------------------------------------
>check out various dan music at:
>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
>(updated monthly)
>
>http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
>http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
>(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
>ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
>AUDIO ARK:
>
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 23 23:00:46 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:00:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <49C80467.6050406@imt.net>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
	<49C80467.6050406@imt.net>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W5667190CC85110C28B8BEFC8920@phx.gbl>


thanks guys

i will try all the ideas

btw..this is for the timbre modulator from electronotes
















--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:51:35 -0700
> From: sounddoctorin at imt.net
> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com
> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
>
> I think I have some 3V ones in stock. If you are using it in a regulator
> of course, you can always add series diodes from say a 3.9V source (ie.
> that zener with a resistor in series to provide enough current for
> supply needed to drive the regulating transistor or op amp or whatever)
> to the base of the transistor etc. And just series enough of them to get
> the voltage where you want it there. This of course will have some
> current dependency and won't be real precise. -Bob
>
> Dan Snazelle wrote:
>
>>can i make a 3v zener out of a higher voltage zener (3..9) or out of lower volt diodes?
>>
>>i need the 3v zener quite badly
>>
>>thanks
>>--------------------------------------------
>>check out various dan music at:
>>
>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>
>>(updated monthly)
>>
>>http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>
>>(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>
>>ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>
>>AUDIO ARK:
>>
>>www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>
>>www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>
>>www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>>
>>



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Mon Mar 23 23:05:58 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:05:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
Message-ID: <64422.213.84.181.38.1237845958.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>



Dan Snazelle schreef:
>
>
> can i make a 3v zener out of a higher voltage zener (3..9) or out of
lower volt diodes?
>
> i need the 3v zener quite badly

What about an LM385Z, which you can adjust from 1.24V to 5.3V using two
resistors? Not too expensive.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Mon Mar 23 23:53:30 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:53:30 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001401c9ac0a$300dc8f0$90295ad0$@net>

Newark sells a 3 volt zener

VISHAY SEMICONDUCTOR
1N5225B SB00018/D8

Newark part number: 18M3525

They have a bunch of other options, too. This one has a 20 mA Izt and 500 mW
power dissipation.

David


David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121
www.CFandE.com

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net





-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 3:27 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?



can i make a 3v zener out of a higher voltage zener (3..9) or out of lower
volt diodes?

i need the 3v zener quite badly

thanks
--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page




_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jason at redfish.net  Tue Mar 24 00:05:23 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:05:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <001401c9ac0a$300dc8f0$90295ad0$@net>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
	<001401c9ac0a$300dc8f0$90295ad0$@net>
Message-ID: <a06200702c5edc61eb802@[10.0.1.140]>

i think perhaps that Dan wants to make one because he can't wait for 
someone to deliver one :-)



>Newark sells a 3 volt zener
>
>VISHAY SEMICONDUCTOR
>1N5225B SB00018/D8
>
>Newark part number: 18M3525
>
>They have a bunch of other options, too. This one has a 20 mA Izt and 500 mW
>power dissipation.
>
>David
>





From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 24 00:28:40 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:28:40 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <a06200702c5edc61eb802@[10.0.1.140]>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
	<001401c9ac0a$300dc8f0$90295ad0$@net>
	<a06200702c5edc61eb802@[10.0.1.140]>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W3481C035ADDC2251E2BFB7C8920@phx.gbl>


ok 

well i built it anyway....using a higher resistor BEFORE the diode and zener combination

it sounds pretty great!

my intent is to mess with it anyway

Why wait when you can build something RIGHT NOW ;)


thanks



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:05:23 -0700
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> From: jason at redfish.net
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
>
> i think perhaps that Dan wants to make one because he can't wait for
> someone to deliver one :-)
>
>
>
>>Newark sells a 3 volt zener
>>
>>VISHAY SEMICONDUCTOR
>>1N5225B SB00018/D8
>>
>>Newark part number: 18M3525
>>
>>They have a bunch of other options, too. This one has a 20 mA Izt and 500 mW
>>power dissipation.
>>
>>David
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Tue Mar 24 01:52:12 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:52:12 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <a06200702c5edc61eb802@[10.0.1.140]>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>	<001401c9ac0a$300dc8f0$90295ad0$@net>
	<a06200702c5edc61eb802@[10.0.1.140]>
Message-ID: <000601c9ac1a$c5b1a290$5114e7b0$@net>

:) Sorry, missed the first question I guess.

David


David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121
www.CFandE.com

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net



-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Jason Proctor
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 5:05 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: RE: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?

i think perhaps that Dan wants to make one because he can't wait for 
someone to deliver one :-)



>Newark sells a 3 volt zener
>
>VISHAY SEMICONDUCTOR
>1N5225B SB00018/D8
>
>Newark part number: 18M3525
>
>They have a bunch of other options, too. This one has a 20 mA Izt and 500
mW
>power dissipation.
>
>David
>



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Tue Mar 24 01:52:46 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:52:46 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W3481C035ADDC2251E2BFB7C8920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>	<001401c9ac0a$300dc8f0$90295ad0$@net>	<a06200702c5edc61eb802@[10.0.1.140]>
	<BAY144-W3481C035ADDC2251E2BFB7C8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000701c9ac1a$dc5f73a0$951e5ae0$@net>

Nice.

Have fun.

David

David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121
www.CFandE.com

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net




-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 5:29 PM
To: jason at redfish.net; sdiy
Subject: RE: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?


ok 

well i built it anyway....using a higher resistor BEFORE the diode and zener
combination

it sounds pretty great!

my intent is to mess with it anyway

Why wait when you can build something RIGHT NOW ;)


thanks



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:05:23 -0700
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> From: jason at redfish.net
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
>
> i think perhaps that Dan wants to make one because he can't wait for
> someone to deliver one :-)
>
>
>
>>Newark sells a 3 volt zener
>>
>>VISHAY SEMICONDUCTOR
>>1N5225B SB00018/D8
>>
>>Newark part number: 18M3525
>>
>>They have a bunch of other options, too. This one has a 20 mA Izt and 500
mW
>>power dissipation.
>>
>>David
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dbarton at pacbell.net  Tue Mar 24 05:15:32 2009
From: dbarton at pacbell.net (db)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:15:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <63938.213.84.181.38.1237842204.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323142243.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>


This circuit just switches some LEDs on and off, so I 'll just skip it 
unless someone says otherwise.
Seems like noise is no issue.

At 3/23/2009 02:03 PM, Simon Brouwer wrote:

>db schreef:
> >
> > I have a wallwart suppling 9vdc to a 7805 to reduce to 5v.
> > All seems to work fine.
> >
> > Do I need capacitors on the 7805 5v out to gnd?
> > The circuits I see all have some, but this seems to be ok without any.
>
>It will reduce noise and improve line regulation, but it is not strictly
>necessary.


dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]





From dbarton at pacbell.net  Tue Mar 24 05:23:30 2009
From: dbarton at pacbell.net (db)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:23:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <49C7FADE.90806@googlemail.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>



I'm sure it's a good idea to have the cap...
But, I already fully built my device and closed it up without a cap, and 
don't want to get back into it unless it's semi-important..  :)



At 3/23/2009 02:10 PM, dragons wrote:
>Hi,
>I think it would be a good idea, even if things seem ok without them.
>after all they shouldn't be that expensive.
>regards Peter
>
>db wrote:
>>I have a wallwart suppling 9vdc to a 7805 to reduce to 5v.
>>All seems to work fine.
>>Do I need capacitors on the 7805 5v out to gnd?
>>The circuits I see all have some, but this seems to be ok without any.
>>dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]





From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Mar 24 11:47:17 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:47:17 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
Message-ID: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>

Hi All,

I'm currently putting the main microprocessor board for my monosynth  
together. One important part of this is MIDI handling. I've never  
written any MIDI code before, so I'm looking for some tips. So far,  
the board can scan a keyboard and display info on an LCD, so I have  
some basic tools for debugging MIDI.

I've read through Seb Francis' 4XD code (which is very useful since  
it is in 16F PIC assembly, which is what I'm using) and looked at the  
MIDIbox code too.

Dealing just with MIDI reception for a moment, I think the general  
plan is something like this:

* Every time a byte arrives, an interrupt is generated. The interrupt  
routine checks whether this is a byte on our channel, and whether it  
is a byte that we're expecting (the second byte of a 2-byte message  
for example) or a new message. If it has a complete message, it puts  
either 1,2, or 3 bytes into a MIDI processing buffer.

* The main code goes through the MIDI processing buffer interpreting  
and acting on the received messages.

The point of this two-stage scheme is that the serious work is only  
done on relevant, correct messages. The interrupt will discard  
anything on other channels, or anything badly formed. This should  
both limit the amount of data that goes into the buffer, and also  
remove the need for complex error checking from the interpreting code.

What do you think? Am I on the right track? Anything I need to know?  
Anything I'm forgetting?

I spent last night doing the internet research on this topic, but  
couldn't find anything that gives an overview of the best strategy  
for writing a MIDI parser. There are some examples, but no-one talks  
about *why* they did it the way they did it, and that's the really  
interesting bit.

Thanks,
Tom




From Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com  Tue Mar 24 12:10:51 2009
From: Jason.Tribbeck at ascom.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:10:51 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <E3402731A68AC640A0F8428448C66D9102E23534@sbssrv01.argogroup.local>

Hi,

> What do you think? Am I on the right track? Anything I need to know?
> Anything I'm forgetting?

I'd say that broadly that's correct - there's a couple of things you may
need to worry yourself about though.

Firstly, MIDI doesn't need the command byte to be resent if it's the
same. This means that if you have two note-on events on the same
channel, this could be done as either 5 or 6 bytes:

91 40 50 4d 50

Is the same as:

91 40 50 91 4d 50

So, you'll need to keep track of the current command byte value.

Secondly, sysex would need to be checked. If you don't support sysex,
then this is easy (especially as you need to keep track of the current
command byte) - just throw everything away when you get a sysex until
the next control byte.

In essence, I'd do something like:

- If byte is command byte, store new command byte, zero data byte
counter
- If current command byte is "interesting", store data byte
- If I have enough data bytes for the command, process the sequence and
zero data byte counter
-- 
Jason Tribbeck



From paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net  Tue Mar 24 12:37:19 2009
From: paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net (paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 07:37:19 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <20090324073719.9y9u0i9lc0w8wkck@www.vacoloco.net>

Tom,

I've read through Seb Francis' 4XD code (which is very useful since it
is in 16F PIC assembly, which is what I'm using) and looked at the
MIDIbox code too.

the code for the monowave, polydac and midi2sds are all up on my page
(www.vacoloco.net/synths) if you want to have a look, though they're in C.


[Hide Quoted Text]
Dealing just with MIDI reception for a moment, I think the general plan
is something like this:

* Every time a byte arrives, an interrupt is generated. The interrupt
routine checks whether this is a byte on our channel, and whether it is
a byte that we're expecting (the second byte of a 2-byte message for
example) or a new message. If it has a complete message, it puts either
1,2, or 3 bytes into a MIDI processing buffer.

close,
FIRST thing to do is check if it's a status byte (MSB set).

Secondly, if it's 0xF0 or above (midi start stop, clock, etc) you'll  
probably want to
ignore it. if it's one of these messages you need to handle them  
differently to status
bytes below 0xF0 as these tend to be single byte status bytes (midi  
clock, midi start are
perfect examples). For a synth, personally, I just *bin* everything  
that's 0xF0 and above.

Thirdly, be aware of running status which is a bugger if you don't  
know about it.

Quick explanation (sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs),

Any MIDI status byte (MSB set) can potentially be replaced by an  
assumed running status
byte, so if you had the following stream (some random three note chord)-

0x90, 0x3c, 0x7f, 0x90, 0x3e, 0x7f, 0x90, 0x37, 0x7f

more often than not, it'll be delivered to your midi input like this ;-

0x90, 0x3c, 0x7f, 0x3e, 0x7f, 0x37, 0x7f

notice the lack of note on status bytes?
This, is the nightmare that is running status.

it doesn't matter WHAT the timing is between the notes, if no other  
Status byte is sent,
*some* synths continue with this.

So when a byte comes in, you'd do somethingl ike this,

Test the MSB
if it's set, check the midi channel (and if it's below 0xF0), if it's  
a match, REMEBER
this status byte
everything you get there after will be data associated with this status byte

if the MSB is not set, then it's data, could be the "second" or  
"thruid" byte so you need
to remember which you've had, and what you're expecting next.
For the example above you'll be processing bytes like this
- 1,2,3,2,3,2,3

Also, again be aware that things like midi clock timing status message  
bytes can happen
in the middle of your note stream!

using the above example, you could get this horrible thing happening ;-

0x90, 0x3c, 0x7f, 0x3e, 0xF8, 0x7f, 0x37, 0x7f

and because it's midi clock, and it just "happens" there's no new  
status byte, hence you
have to treat messages 0xF0 and above, VERY differently to the rest of  
your midi stream.

When debugging, bare in mind apps like MIDI-OX, tend to tidy up the  
MIDI Stream, so you
don't see the lack status bytes.

The point of this two-stage scheme is that the serious work is only
done on relevant, correct messages. The interrupt will discard anything
on other channels, or anything badly formed. This should both limit the
amount of data that goes into the buffer, and also remove the need for
complex error checking from the interpreting code.

yep, FWIW, I usually use a buffer for midi notes, as a byte comes in I  
just throw the
entire stream into a buffer (an indexed array really).

I then have a routine in my main loop that checks to see if there  
array index point is
something other than zero (i.e. there's data there), if so it jumps to a
midi_process(getchar()) function, which checks MSB, channel, values  
over 0xF0, etc and
then sets a "byte counter" So that I know the next byte recieved is  
byte 2 of a 3 byte
stream.
Then byte 3, and UNLESS I have a new midi status, then byte 2.

What do you think? Am I on the right track? Anything I need to know?
Anything I'm forgetting?

the thing that catches you out will be running status and those  
"system realtime
messages" (anythong 0xF0 to 0xFF).
The other odd one is the two types of note off ;-

0x80, 0x3C, 0x7F
0x90, 0x3C, 0x00

Both are valid note off's for the same note, *most* things seem to use  
note (0x90) with
zero velocity, but some still use note off (0x80) status bytes.

I spent last night doing the internet research on this topic, but
couldn't find anything that gives an overview of the best strategy for
writing a MIDI parser. There are some examples, but no-one talks about
*why* they did it the way they did it, and that's the really
interesting bit.

I did a paper for AVRFreaks which had a quite in depth explanation of  
how to handle MIDI,
(http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=FreaksArticles&func=downloadArticle&id=19)  
but
the code that went with it (in assembler) seems to have been lost.

Hope that helps
Paul




From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Tue Mar 24 12:40:15 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:40:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] New scan of Roland SH-101 Servicemanual
Message-ID: <49C8C69F.4020401@mnet-online.de>

Hello everybody,

I recently got hands on a original service manual for the Roland SH-101. 
Since the scan, which can be found in the web on several sites is only 
black/white, some details of the schematics were not readable and the 
pcb-layout was close to unusable. So I decided to scan my original with 
300dpi and grayscale.
The file is available here: 
http://fa.utfs.org/diy/rolandsh101/Roland-SH101-Service-Manual.pdf

I hope it helps.

Florian


From louis at dompselaar.org  Tue Mar 24 12:47:15 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:47:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <20090324073719.9y9u0i9lc0w8wkck@www.vacoloco.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<20090324073719.9y9u0i9lc0w8wkck@www.vacoloco.net>
Message-ID: <1390AA9F-2AB1-467F-AAC5-73311B5D2E08@dompselaar.org>

> the thing that catches you out will be running status and those  
> "system realtime
> messages" (anythong 0xF0 to 0xFF).
> The other odd one is the two types of note off ;-
>
> 0x80, 0x3C, 0x7F
> 0x90, 0x3C, 0x00
>
> Both are valid note off's for the same note, *most* things seem to  
> use note (0x90) with
> zero velocity, but some still use note off (0x80) status bytes.

And it's not always 0x7F note off velocity either.  Some keyboards do  
actually
send a real note-off velocity value.



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Mar 24 13:05:48 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:05:48 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49C8CC9C.1000201@burnit.co.uk>

Hi Tom,

Sounds like you're on the right track.  I've had a quick glance through
my 4xD MIDI code (I'd almost forgotten the horrors of 16F PIC assembly
now that I've been using dsPICs for a while) ....

- Receiving a MIDI byte triggers the UART ISR
- The ISR keeps track of the progress of multi-byte messages, and the
last status byte in case of running status mode, and it handles system
realtime bytes without loosing track of these things.
- The actual message to be acted on isn't written to the ring buffer
until it is completely received, and then always a complete 1, 2 or 3
byte message is written, regardless of whether the message was received
in running status mode, etc.  This greatly simplifies the job of
actually reading from and acting on the buffer.
- The ISR doesn't make any decisions about MIDI channel as it's simpler
just to wait until a full message is received, especially with running
status, etc.  It also keeps the action logic separate from the receiving
logic.
- The actual acting on the buffer takes places outside of an ISR so you
can take as long as necessary doing complex calculations, etc. without
disrupting any realtime processes (as long as you don't run out of the
MIDI ring buffer of course).  This was more necessary for my Fat
Controller from which this code was derived - some quite lengthy
calculations had to take place in response to MIDI messages - but I
think it's a good overall framework in any case.

The 4xD only responded to MIDI CC and certain system messages, but the
code has stub subroutines for all the other MIDI messages.  The code is
well tested by quite a few different people so ought to be a good
starting point for you....

Cheers,
Seb


Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm currently putting the main microprocessor board for my monosynth 
> together. One important part of this is MIDI handling. I've never 
> written any MIDI code before, so I'm looking for some tips. So far, 
> the board can scan a keyboard and display info on an LCD, so I have 
> some basic tools for debugging MIDI.
>
> I've read through Seb Francis' 4XD code (which is very useful since it 
> is in 16F PIC assembly, which is what I'm using) and looked at the 
> MIDIbox code too.
>
> Dealing just with MIDI reception for a moment, I think the general 
> plan is something like this:
>
> * Every time a byte arrives, an interrupt is generated. The interrupt 
> routine checks whether this is a byte on our channel, and whether it 
> is a byte that we're expecting (the second byte of a 2-byte message 
> for example) or a new message. If it has a complete message, it puts 
> either 1,2, or 3 bytes into a MIDI processing buffer.
>
> * The main code goes through the MIDI processing buffer interpreting 
> and acting on the received messages.
>
> The point of this two-stage scheme is that the serious work is only 
> done on relevant, correct messages. The interrupt will discard 
> anything on other channels, or anything badly formed. This should both 
> limit the amount of data that goes into the buffer, and also remove 
> the need for complex error checking from the interpreting code.
>
> What do you think? Am I on the right track? Anything I need to know? 
> Anything I'm forgetting?
>
> I spent last night doing the internet research on this topic, but 
> couldn't find anything that gives an overview of the best strategy for 
> writing a MIDI parser. There are some examples, but no-one talks about 
> *why* they did it the way they did it, and that's the really 
> interesting bit.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>





From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Mar 24 13:09:19 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:09:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <20090324073719.9y9u0i9lc0w8wkck@www.vacoloco.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<20090324073719.9y9u0i9lc0w8wkck@www.vacoloco.net>
Message-ID: <49C8CD6F.4090109@burnit.co.uk>

paul.maddox.mail-list at synth.net wrote:
>
> The other odd one is the two types of note off ;-
>
> 0x80, 0x3C, 0x7F
> 0x90, 0x3C, 0x00
>
> Both are valid note off's for the same note, *most* things seem to use 
> note (0x90) with
> zero velocity, but some still use note off (0x80) status bytes.
>

Oh yes, forgot to mention that one - and you won't find any help in the 
4xD code as it doesn't respond to note data.  But it's simple enough to 
handle - just remember to treated velocity 0 as a special case in the 
ProcessMIDI_NoteOn subroutine.

Seb





From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Mar 24 13:35:28 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:35:28 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <1390AA9F-2AB1-467F-AAC5-73311B5D2E08@dompselaar.org>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<20090324073719.9y9u0i9lc0w8wkck@www.vacoloco.net>
	<1390AA9F-2AB1-467F-AAC5-73311B5D2E08@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <E0B6581D-27A4-4FA2-95C6-6B9F74FA5A23@electricdruid.net>


On 24 Mar 2009, at 11:47, Louis van Dompselaar wrote:

>> the thing that catches you out will be running status and those  
>> "system realtime
>> messages" (anythong 0xF0 to 0xFF).
>> The other odd one is the two types of note off ;-
>>
>> 0x80, 0x3C, 0x7F
>> 0x90, 0x3C, 0x00
>>
>> Both are valid note off's for the same note, *most* things seem to  
>> use note (0x90) with
>> zero velocity, but some still use note off (0x80) status bytes.
>
> And it's not always 0x7F note off velocity either.  Some keyboards  
> do actually
> send a real note-off velocity value.

Presumably it's impossible to use the "note on" code (0x90) with a  
release velocity other than zero for a note off?
So keyboards that send a release velocity must use the true note off  
message (0x80).

T.




From Scott at scottwick.com  Tue Mar 24 14:53:20 2009
From: Scott at scottwick.com (Scott)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:53:20 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Potentiometer Source
Message-ID: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CAB@sol.wick.stl>

I do have the mouser catalog.  It's just that a few years ago when I built a huge synth addition, I was getting .30 cent jacks, and .50 cent pots!!  Now when I need over 100 more of each, it hurts to jump to about 4x the cost.

I know in the long run, the slightly higher quality parts will probably pay off.  But.. yeah.. there's nothing more to say.. it hurts to make that jump to 4x the cost in just a few years.

________________________________________
From: Tim Parkhurst [mailto:tim.parkhurst at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 12:37 PM
To: Scott
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Potentiometer Source

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Scott <Scott at scottwick.com> wrote:
Hello,
I've got another parts sourcing question.  So, just like the surplus jacks I asked about the other day, I used to be able to find little alpha potentiometers for about $.50 each at a couple of different surplus stores.  Both seem to be out.  It's been a couple of years, so I guess prices have risen a little, but just like the jacks, the best price I can find now is several times what I was paying.
So, does anyone know where to get a bunch of inexpensive pots?  I need about 100 100k, and 50 50k.

It looks like this hobby is a lot more expensive than it used to be a couple of years ago! ? !  I should have finished these modules back then!

Thanks!
Dude, get yourself a Mouser catalog, it's a great source ;-)
 
Seriously, I really like the 12mm Alphas in stock at Mouser. They're available in PC mount (right angle) or solder lug, audio or linear tapers up to 1M, they have a nice feel to them, and they're $1.60ea if you buy ten or more. These are all D-shaft, but there are tons of knobs available to fit them. The 12mm size makes them easier to fit in a layout (especially when a pot needs to fit near the edge of a module), and I think they're a great bargain. Check page 675 in the latest catalog. The part number for the 100k linear with solder lugs is 313-1210F-100K, so that should get you started for an online search.

Tim (always buys ten or more) Servo
-- 
"Sire, the church of God is an anvil that has worn out many hammers." - H.L. H



From lists at studionebula.com  Tue Mar 24 15:20:58 2009
From: lists at studionebula.com (Adam Schabtach)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:20:58 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <22CE6240-F646-4DF2-8F7B-0C3967671D64@electricdruid.net>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl><49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com><001301c9ab65$35c9bd30$a15d3790$@net>
	<22CE6240-F646-4DF2-8F7B-0C3967671D64@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <001701c9ac8b$c16ce2a0$1102a8c0@Mariko>

 
> http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2003090321
> 
> This looks to be a 2003 patent application, withdrawn in 
> 2006. I expect Apple's lawyers jumped on them.

That boggles my non-lawyer mind. I believe that magnetically held power
cables appeared on Japanese rice cookers many years before they ever
appeared on an Apple product.

--Adam



From johnspeth at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 24 15:35:42 2009
From: johnspeth at yahoo.com (johnspeth at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 07:35:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <86012.10886.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


> What do you think? Am I on the right track? Anything I need to know? Anything 
> I'm forgetting?

I think the advice you've gotten from everyone has been good advice.? Here's my 2 cents: In my opinion, MIDI parsing begs to be treated with a state machine coding approach.? Taking into account all that you can research about MIDI and paying particular attention to the pitfalls described in the other responses, I suggest you draw a state machine of all MIDI incoming byes and how they shall be parsed.? It will be a good model that you can code from.

I'm an embedded?SW engineer and have been saved from buggy spaghetti code many times by starting with with good written state machine models.? For me, drawing state machines is a many-times-through iterative process but the code that results has always been worth the effort.

JJS



      



From richard at skydancer.com  Tue Mar 24 15:58:31 2009
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:58:31 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>


On 24 Mar 2009, at 10:47, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> What do you think? Am I on the right track? Anything I need to  
> know? Anything I'm forgetting?

Other people have mentioned running status. I've found it useful to  
run the parser as a finite state machine - each status byte switches  
parsing modes until the next status byte, with a standard set of  
exceptions for sys real time, sys ex, etc.

Also, don't forget to include a hardware all-notes-off panic button. ;)

Active sensing can be useful too - run a timer, and turn all notes  
off if active sensing isn't received within a time out period.

Richard


From jmahoney at gate.net  Tue Mar 24 17:12:32 2009
From: jmahoney at gate.net (John Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:12:32 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <001701c9ac8b$c16ce2a0$1102a8c0@Mariko>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
	<49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
	<001301c9ab65$35c9bd30$a15d3790$@net>
	<22CE6240-F646-4DF2-8F7B-0C3967671D64@electricdruid.net>
	<001701c9ac8b$c16ce2a0$1102a8c0@Mariko>
Message-ID: <200903241612.n2OGC61g010459@dropmix.xs4all.nl>


> > http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2003090321
> >
> > This looks to be a 2003 patent application, withdrawn in
> > 2006. I expect Apple's lawyers jumped on them.
>
>That boggles my non-lawyer mind. I believe that magnetically held power
>cables appeared on Japanese rice cookers many years before they ever
>appeared on an Apple product.

Just because someone "expects" that Apple was behind the withdrawn 
patent application doesn't make it so. Maybe someone else holds a 
patent on it. There are several possible scenarios, so I wouldn't let 
my mind be blown too quickly. (Then again, maybe I'm being naive.)

John



From igg.debus at t-online.de  Tue Mar 24 17:38:02 2009
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:38:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>
Message-ID: <1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>


Am 24.03.2009 um 15:58 schrieb Richard Wentk:

> Active sensing can be useful too - run a timer, and turn all notes  
> off if active sensing isn't received within a time out period.

But only if an active sensing msg has been received recently - many  
MIDI devices don't send active sensing at all. You'd be shutting off  
the notes all the time.

Ingo


From dragon.servicing at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 24 18:49:36 2009
From: dragon.servicing at googlemail.com (dragons)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:49:36 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] mm5280d ram pinout / data sheet
In-Reply-To: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CAB@sol.wick.stl>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CAB@sol.wick.stl>
Message-ID: <49C91D30.7080604@googlemail.com>

Hi,
just wondered if anyone had the pinout or data sheet for a national 
semiconductors MM5280D ram chip ?
( yes I know it is a very old part )
I'm looking at an old effects unit that has these in them and it looks 
like there is a psu fault, so I want to confirm the correct supply 
voltages before doing any damage.
regards Peter





From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Mar 24 18:51:38 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:51:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] magsafe patch cables?
In-Reply-To: <200903241612.n2OGC61g010459@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
References: <439ccfd90903221206v57fe9361x2f91c5edc92f1c89@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C69EAA.2000005@makenoisemusic.com>
	<BAY144-W415C1B6235DF2789118509C8920@phx.gbl>
	<49C6F0CD.6040509@smiffytech.com>
	<001301c9ab65$35c9bd30$a15d3790$@net>
	<22CE6240-F646-4DF2-8F7B-0C3967671D64@electricdruid.net>
	<001701c9ac8b$c16ce2a0$1102a8c0@Mariko>
	<200903241612.n2OGC61g010459@dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <03403193-2F19-4819-8A23-1A5A7805FFF9@electricdruid.net>


On 24 Mar 2009, at 16:12, John Mahoney wrote:

>
>> > http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2003090321
>> >
>> > This looks to be a 2003 patent application, withdrawn in
>> > 2006. I expect Apple's lawyers jumped on them.
>>
>> That boggles my non-lawyer mind. I believe that magnetically held  
>> power
>> cables appeared on Japanese rice cookers many years before they ever
>> appeared on an Apple product.
>
> Just because someone "expects" that Apple was behind the withdrawn  
> patent application doesn't make it so. Maybe someone else holds a  
> patent on it. There are several possible scenarios, so I wouldn't  
> let my mind be blown too quickly. (Then again, maybe I'm being naive.)

Dead right, John. It was pure speculation on my part, and I wouldn't  
claim otherwise.
It *may* be that the claim was withdrawn under pressure from Apple's  
lawyers, but you can dream up your own scenario too, naive or  
otherwise as you choose.

T.





From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Mar 24 19:00:40 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:00:40 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] mm5280d ram pinout / data sheet
In-Reply-To: <49C91D30.7080604@googlemail.com>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CAB@sol.wick.stl>
	<49C91D30.7080604@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <2972D681-9897-40BF-A6B6-74D53A2E53AC@electricdruid.net>

This page gives you a couple of links to something that looks like it  
(MM5280J/MM5280N):

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/search.php?q=MM5280

On 24 Mar 2009, at 17:49, dragons wrote:

> Hi,
> just wondered if anyone had the pinout or data sheet for a national  
> semiconductors MM5280D ram chip ?
> ( yes I know it is a very old part )
> I'm looking at an old effects unit that has these in them and it  
> looks like there is a psu fault, so I want to confirm the correct  
> supply voltages before doing any damage.
> regards Peter
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Tue Mar 24 21:13:28 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:13:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <200903242113.28410.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2009, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
[...]
> What do you think? Am I on the right track? Anything I need to
> know? Anything I'm forgetting?

As much as you would wish, there is no shortcut to MIDI parsing: you 
need to deal with everything from system realtime (this is sidechannel 
data that can come anywhere inbetween other messages!) to running 
status to sysex to note off (as note on w/ velocity zero or as proper 
note off with some other velocity value).  This means you need to keep 
quite a bit of state information.  Once you have figured out what 
you're looking at you will probably throw away most of the data, but 
you have to maintain the correct state to make any sense of it at all.  
Of the many ways to implement such a parser, there really isn't a 
preferrable style, IMHO - although you should pay attention to do it 
in a robust fashion, so that a mangled or missing byte on the wire 
doesn't freak out your parser for longer than necessary.

Personally I'd have an ISR take care of feeding a ringbuffer with raw 
MIDI bytes from the wire (when the write pointer chases the read you 
do at least know that you've missed something and need to reset the 
state machine), then have a event or timer triggered routine fend off 
the realtime messages and whatever is left over to go into a state 
machine that keeps running status.  Most of the "receive data" 
transistions on this state machine will throw away the payload as 
you're not interested in the particular message.  The rest would be 
normalized (only one type of note off, for instance) and sent to 
another buffer for pickup by the engine.  If you need to process 
realtime messages, this would be separate state machine and buffer.  
This keeps the timing critical code nicely isolated and you can easily 
rig a debugging scaffold around each part to test everything.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada





From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Tue Mar 24 21:13:30 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:13:30 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>
	<1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2009, Ingo Debus wrote:
> But only if an active sensing msg has been received recently - many
> MIDI devices don't send active sensing at all. You'd be shutting
> off the notes all the time.

The MIDI spec says that active sensing is to be activated if you have 
been receiving at least one active sense byte and no provision is made 
to switch it off based on the reception (or not) of further active 
sensing events.  You would have to receive a system reset to revert to 
default state, but try and find a device that can actually send one...


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

DIY Stuff:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/DIY.html





From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Tue Mar 24 21:26:45 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:26:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200903242126.45575.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Montag, 23. M?rz 2009, Dan Snazelle wrote:
> can i make a 3v zener out of a higher voltage zener (3..9) or out
> of lower volt diodes?

If you really need the sharp corner of a "Zener" try to find an npn 
transistor in your stash that has around 3V emitter to basis breakdown 
(you can leave the collector open or if you don't want to check which 
is which just tie emitter and collector).  Your best bet is some 
super-beta or low-voltage RF transistor.  If you've ever used a 
transistor in this way, don't use it in normal mode again unless you 
need a makeshift noise generator, so you should mark it (I'd cut off 
the collector lead).


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf rackAttack:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds





From uzs159 at uni-bonn.de  Tue Mar 24 21:54:42 2009
From: uzs159 at uni-bonn.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:54:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W401B7E1E9006B72DDB4BF2C8920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49C94892.8070109@uni-bonn.de>

Dan Snazelle schrieb:
> 
> can i make a 3v zener out of a higher voltage zener (3..9) or out of lower volt diodes?

LEDs might work instead of a zener. Green or perhaps even Blue ones. 
Maybe with some 4148s in series. Leds have a sharper knee than a string 
of diodes. (although low voltage zeners often have a soft knee anyway.)

Cheers,
  Ren?

-- 
uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159


From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue Mar 24 22:41:24 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:41:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>
	<1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>
	<200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <3EFC3245-04FB-4400-B0D1-5076EEF22B8A@electricdruid.net>

Thanks to all for all the help and tips. Sounds like I've got a busy  
week lined up.

I've got started by testing the hardware and doing MIDI transmit  
(much simpler than receive).

One thing I've noticed with the transmit is that it is possible to  
send bytes from the PIC too quickly - there seems to be a minimum  
space required between them. Does anyone know how long this pause  
should be between the transmission of individual MIDI bytes? I can  
always find a value by trial and error, but that seems a bit uncertain.

Thanks again everyone,
Tom





From music.maker at gte.net  Tue Mar 24 22:54:19 2009
From: music.maker at gte.net (Scott Gravenhorst)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:54:19 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
Message-ID: <200903242154.n2OLsJo5022167@linux7.lan>

I've never had a problem with one stop bit and otherwise sending MIDI bytes back to
back.  If there is a minimum delay, it should be in the MIDI specification, but I
can't remember having read anything like that.  

But I'm here for an education too...

Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>Thanks to all for all the help and tips. Sounds like I've got a busy  
>week lined up.
>
>I've got started by testing the hardware and doing MIDI transmit  
>(much simpler than receive).
>
>One thing I've noticed with the transmit is that it is possible to  
>send bytes from the PIC too quickly - there seems to be a minimum  
>space required between them. Does anyone know how long this pause  
>should be between the transmission of individual MIDI bytes? I can  
>always find a value by trial and error, but that seems a bit uncertain.
>
>Thanks again everyone,
>Tom
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- ScottG
________________________________________________________________________
-- Scott Gravenhorst
-- FPGA MIDI Synthesizer Information: home1.gte.net/res0658s/FPGA_synth/
-- FatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/fatman/
-- NonFatMan: home1.gte.net/res0658s/electronics/
-- When the going gets tough, the tough use the command line.



From jdec at mindspring.com  Tue Mar 24 23:39:43 2009
From: jdec at mindspring.com (BrightBoy)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:39:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
Message-ID: <1985638.1237934383784.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>Thanks to all for all the help and tips. Sounds like I've got a busy  
>week lined up.
>
>I've got started by testing the hardware and doing MIDI transmit  
>(much simpler than receive).
>
>One thing I've noticed with the transmit is that it is possible to  
>send bytes from the PIC too quickly - there seems to be a minimum  
>space required between them. Does anyone know how long this pause  
>should be between the transmission of individual MIDI bytes? I can  
>always find a value by trial and error, but that seems a bit uncertain.

Are you using a hardware UART to transmit your MIDI data or are you 
trying to emulate a UART with software?

Cheers,

Jeff





From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Tue Mar 24 23:58:22 2009
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:58:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <200903242113.28410.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<200903242113.28410.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <DD2F903E-0006-44CC-8238-867A03C89159@ntlworld.com>


ASSI wrote:

> On Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2009, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> [...]
>> What do you think? Am I on the right track? Anything I need to
>> know? Anything I'm forgetting?
>
> As much as you would wish, there is no shortcut to MIDI parsing

There is a grammar of sorts for MIDI on the net:

	http://www.josef-k.net/mim/midibnf.html

But this is written for transmission, and would need significant  
tweaking to be useable in a receiver, partly to make up for omissions  
in what are valid receive bytes (e.g. sysex termination), and partly  
to make it more robust against corrupted or missing bytes.
But its a start.

Neil
--
http://www.njohnson.co.uk






From nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au  Wed Mar 25 00:21:32 2009
From: nicolas3141 at yahoo.com.au (nicolas)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:21:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
Message-ID: <990826.81927.qm@web56801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


Blue or white LEDs are usually about 3.5V but there is quite a bit of variation between different brands and batches.  Red LEDs are usually about 1.5V so two in series would do the trick - again sorting through a few batches might be necessary.  Green LEDs are often about 2V, so with one or two 1N4148s in series would also give you about 3V.  Using the forward voltage drop of a diode or LED is more current dependant than using a zener.

But if you are wanting the zener for its noise generating properties none of the above will work as all the forward diode type voltage refs are much quieter than the reverse type.

Remember also that if you are back-to-backing them in an AC situation to clip the signal, zeners go in series (pointing oppositely) and clip at their rated voltage plus 0.6V whereas LEDs go in parallel (pointing oppositely) and clip at their normal forard voltage drop.

Cheers,
Nicolas


--- On Wed, 25/3/09, Ren? Schmitz <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de> wrote:


From: Ren? Schmitz <uzs159 at uni-bonn.de>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] makeshift 3v zener?
To: "Dan Snazelle" <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Received: Wednesday, 25 March, 2009, 9:54 AM


Dan Snazelle schrieb:
> 
> can i make a 3v zener out of a higher voltage zener (3..9) or out of lower volt diodes?

LEDs might work instead of a zener. Green or perhaps even Blue ones. Maybe with some 4148s in series. Leds have a sharper knee than a string of diodes. (although low voltage zeners often have a soft knee anyway.)

Cheers,
Ren?

-- uzs159 at uni-bonn.de
http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



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From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Mar 25 00:58:58 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:58:58 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <3EFC3245-04FB-4400-B0D1-5076EEF22B8A@electricdruid.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>	<1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>	<200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<3EFC3245-04FB-4400-B0D1-5076EEF22B8A@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49C973C2.3030907@xs4all.nl>

Tom Wiltshire schreef:
> One thing I've noticed with the transmit is that it is possible to 
> send bytes from the PIC too quickly - there seems to be a minimum 
> space required between them. Does anyone know how long this pause 
> should be between the transmission of individual MIDI bytes? I can 
> always find a value by trial and error, but that seems a bit uncertain.
Then you probably don't check the UART transmit register empty flag (in 
the PIC18Fxx20 for example, this is the TRMT bit in the TXSTA register)?
As long as you wait for the transmit register to become empty before 
writing each byte, they will be transmitted correctly.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From matt at smiffytech.com  Wed Mar 25 01:24:29 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:54:29 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <86012.10886.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<86012.10886.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C979BD.8000009@smiffytech.com>

Quoth johnspeth at yahoo.com at 2009-03-25 01:05...
> I think the advice you've gotten from everyone has been good 
> advice.  Here's my 2 cents: In my opinion, MIDI parsing begs
> to be treated with a state machine coding approach.
> Taking into account all that you can research about MIDI and
> paying particular attention to the pitfalls described in the
> other responses, I suggest you draw a state machine of all
> MIDI incoming byes and how they shall be parsed.
> It will be a good model that you can code from.
> 
> I'm an embedded SW engineer and have been saved from buggy 
> spaghetti code many times by starting with with good written
> state machine models.  For me, drawing state machines
> is a many-times-through iterative process but the code
> that results has always been worth the effort.

I'd second this (or third it - I'm sure someone else mentioned State
Machines but can't find the post now.)

I started working on MIDI code about a month ago.  With feedback
received from this list, I started drawing up an FSM (Finite State
Machine, not Flying Spaghetti Monster ;-))  It's rare for me to do any
software design on paper but, for something like this, the visualisation
makes it all MUCH easier to understand - and see what's been missed.

Now hoping to find the time to translate it all back into C.

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From syntroniks at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 01:49:44 2009
From: syntroniks at gmail.com (HL-SDK Synths)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:49:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] usb power?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322111601.07c89af0@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090322005647.00c2cb78@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090322111601.07c89af0@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <643888bd0903241749j2f159ab1t915d4e73110e77f8@mail.gmail.com>

I've gone by the rule of thumb that 1 plain LED (at standard
brightness) will take about 15mA. Now you have an assy that uses
higher voltage. Hook it up to 5V w/ an ammeter in series and adjust
brightness, or just read off the number if it is as bright as you
would like it to be.

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:25 PM, db <dbarton at pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> From your numbers of 25 LEDs and 4.5V, I can only guess you want some
>> white LEDs and intend to suck the maximum of 500mA. ?Is that correct?
>> You can probably get away with that ... mostly. ?If you are sucking
>
>
> I don't know how much current these lights use, as they are just small 25
> led lights that come all assembled, so I have no specs.
> Does anyone know an approximation of how much current I might be using with
> the 25?
>
> Is it easy to measure? Can I simply connect a DMM in series an get a useful
> reading?
>
> If I need to, I'll use an external supply,. but that complicates things a
> bit for this app.
> I have the laptop controlling the LEDs on/off, as well as powering them.
>
>
> dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From julian at port23.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 02:04:41 2009
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:04:41 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] calculating resistance to match brighness across different
	colours of leds?
Message-ID: <134E1CB95B2F4DB3B9474967E2643B0B@legba>

Hello,

Rather than doing it 'by eye', i thought it was about time i should do this properly -

I have two leds, a red and a green.  The specs are:

Red:
Wavelength: 700
Lum. int. (mcd) @ IF (20mA): 10
IF max. (mA): 15
VF typ. (V): 2.2
VF max. (V): 2.8

Green:
Wavelength: 570
Lum. int. (mcd) @ IF (20mA): 30
IF max. (mA): 30
VF typ. (V): 2.1
VF max. (V): 2.8


If i use a 10k resistor on the red led, and i want the green one next to it to be, to the observer, the same brighness is this just 
a simple cacluation?

Im concerned that it may not be simply a case of matching the luminosity - i dont know, but does the human eye (assuming a 'normal' 
individual) have equal sensativity across the visable spectrum?

Im thinking of how the ears are more sensative to treble than bass... (?)


Julian 



From manuel at bl0rg.net  Wed Mar 25 02:24:20 2009
From: manuel at bl0rg.net (Manuel Odendahl)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:24:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <49C979BD.8000009@smiffytech.com>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<86012.10886.qm@web53305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<49C979BD.8000009@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <34687FCC-3EE3-4C69-9DB0-3F9E143C2E5A@bl0rg.net>

Hi Peepz,

On Mar 25, 2009, at 1:24 AM, Matthew Smith wrote:
> Now hoping to find the time to translate it all back into C.

For what it may be worth, here's my C implementation of a MIDI state  
machine. Some stuff (Realtime) is taken care of right in the IRQ, but  
the rest is here:

http://code.google.com/p/mididuino/source/browse/trunk/hardware/libraries/Midi/Midi.cpp

Cheers, Manuel



From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 03:36:18 2009
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:36:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] calculating resistance to match brighness across
	different	colours of leds?
In-Reply-To: <134E1CB95B2F4DB3B9474967E2643B0B@legba>
References: <134E1CB95B2F4DB3B9474967E2643B0B@legba>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W68ED9B5A2AF8EE02A8F9F4B4900@phx.gbl>


The eye is more sensitive to green, but I don't think it would be very easy to tell which is brighter just by looking at it.

Maybe you could combine the light of both and adjust for a reasonable yellow color.

----------------------------------------
> From: julian at port23.co.uk
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:04:41 +0000
> Subject: [sdiy] calculating resistance to match brighness across different colours of leds?
>
> Hello,
>
> Rather than doing it 'by eye', i thought it was about time i should do this properly -
>
> I have two leds, a red and a green. The specs are:
>
> Red:
> Wavelength: 700
> Lum. int. (mcd) @ IF (20mA): 10
> IF max. (mA): 15
> VF typ. (V): 2.2
> VF max. (V): 2.8
>
> Green:
> Wavelength: 570
> Lum. int. (mcd) @ IF (20mA): 30
> IF max. (mA): 30
> VF typ. (V): 2.1
> VF max. (V): 2.8
>
>
> If i use a 10k resistor on the red led, and i want the green one next to it to be, to the observer, the same brighness is this just
> a simple cacluation?
>
> Im concerned that it may not be simply a case of matching the luminosity - i dont know, but does the human eye (assuming a 'normal'
> individual) have equal sensativity across the visable spectrum?
>
> Im thinking of how the ears are more sensative to treble than bass... (?)
>
>
> Julian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009


From asfi at eol.ca  Wed Mar 25 04:59:49 2009
From: asfi at eol.ca (Colin Hinz)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:59:49 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903242348060.3712@p4-1>

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, db wrote:

> I'm sure it's a good idea to have the cap...
> But, I already fully built my device and closed it up without a cap, and 
> don't want to get back into it unless it's semi-important..  :)

One of my first tasks as a rookie EE (lo those many years ago) was
to troubleshoot a microcontroller board which had strangely gone
insane. It turned out that the 7805 regulator (lacking the recommended
bypass caps) was oscillating between 3V and 7V. Looked OK when checked
with a DVM, too -- I had to get wise with a scope, instead.
"But it worked fine on the bench," the designer wailed.

YMMV, of course. If it's gonna fail, though, it'll probably fail under
the least desireable circumstances. You'll never say to yourself, "Boy,
I'm glad I opened it up and put the cap in," but you sure might be
saying, "Argh! I should have corrected that before I went on tour."

- Colin



From asfi at eol.ca  Wed Mar 25 05:26:58 2009
From: asfi at eol.ca (Colin Hinz)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:26:58 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W35584C84CE93B4BBE19EBEF5920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY141-W54F45B1F56F8DD806A749EF5970@phx.gbl>
	<49C3EEFA.2000503@gte.net>
	<BAY141-W35584C84CE93B4BBE19EBEF5920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903250022590.3712@p4-1>

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up for that pseudo-random tone
> generator.
>
> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf

Interesting! How does it sound?

> If there's anything anyone can think of to add to it feature-wise
> that would make it a decent module, I'm open to suggestions.
> (trigger outputs, different waveforms, multiple voices in one
> package, etc.)

Output level control, with perhaps some dumb simple waveshaping or
filtering?

- Colin



From asfi at eol.ca  Wed Mar 25 05:32:50 2009
From: asfi at eol.ca (Colin Hinz)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:32:50 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323142243.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323142243.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903250028150.3712@p4-1>

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, db wrote:

>
> This circuit just switches some LEDs on and off, so I 'll just skip it unless 
> someone says otherwise.
> Seems like noise is no issue.

Dennis,

Judging by your website, it looks like you do a heckuva lot of
touring (I'm envious!).

Do you want your circuit to start acting up thousands of miles from your
workbench?

(I've made my share of 'quick and dirty circuits' too, but I've also
had my share of Murphy's ghost slapping me sensible.)

OK, I'll shut up now.

- Colin



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Wed Mar 25 06:00:18 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:00:18 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903250022590.3712@p4-1>
Message-ID: <0KH100M08PWJNN@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

> > If there's anything anyone can think of to add to it feature-wise
> > that would make it a decent module, I'm open to suggestions.
> > (trigger outputs, different waveforms, multiple voices in one
> > package, etc.)
> 
> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb simple waveshaping or
> filtering?

I've given this some hard thought, as I'm organizing my own hand-built
modular from scratch, and I've come to the conclusion that INPUT level
control is the way to go, not OUTPUT level control.  That way, the same
module can supply its full strength output to many destinations and be
attenuated as desired at each without affecting the others.  

I've also come to the conclusion that wavemorphing and filtering are
probably best left to purpose-built modules.  I'm a big fan of little,
1U-wide utility modules for things like mixing, inverting, multiplying, etc.


Hence, my advice (for what it's worth, which probably isn't much!) would be
to build the module just as you envisaged it, and send the output to other
modules for further mashing.

Having said that, how about adding a glide control?  Also, what would it
take to randomize the duration of the tones (within some fixed set of
duration values) as well as the pitch?  Heck, if you threw in random attack
and volume, you'd have a fully automated Messiaen module (a la his famous
"Mode de Valeurs et d'Intensites).  Now, who wouldn't want to have a little
electronic Olivier Messiaen lurking inside his modular?



From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 06:16:43 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
Message-ID: <967792.80765.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we got:

-4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual outs and/or summed staircase out
-The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or gates
-Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or C with Vactrols
-MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
-Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit, pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
-External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif

As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along already) to let an external filter do the work.

And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting stuff to be had here:

http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg

Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/


Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!


_Kyle

--- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz <asfi at eol.ca> wrote:

> From: Colin Hinz <asfi at eol.ca>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: "synth diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up for that
> pseudo-random tone
> > generator.
> >
> > http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
> 
> Interesting! How does it sound?
> 
> > If there's anything anyone can think of to add to it
> feature-wise
> > that would make it a decent module, I'm open to
> suggestions.
> > (trigger outputs, different waveforms, multiple voices
> in one
> > package, etc.)
> 
> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb simple
> waveshaping or
> filtering?
> 
> - Colin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      


From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 07:21:30 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:21:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] SH-101 CPU
Message-ID: <788391.63261.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


As reference for a far-off someday project, of the cloning variety, what would be a modern replacement for the CPU in the SH-101?

I figure I could work backwards from there, once I have at least that down. Best I can narrow things down to is knowing that given the TMP80C49 was 8-bits, a replacement presumably would match that...?


_Kyle


      


From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 08:09:08 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:09:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] SH-101 CPU
Message-ID: <902778.68567.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Mm, good to know Veronica.

I was perusing the Microchip Technologies site earlier on the note of PICs, and if I'm to go that direction (probably will), in lieu of learning how the technology works I ought be able to find the proper device for my needs.

I don't need to expand much more on the original 101's abilities though, unless anyone has some suggestions?

What I had in mind was a standalone, performance oriented synth (that unlike an SH-101, won't set me back $700 or so).


_Kyle


--- On Tue, 3/24/09, Veronica Merryfield <veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca> wrote:

> From: Veronica Merryfield <veronica.merryfield at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] SH-101 CPU
> To: "Kyle Stephens" <lightburnx at yahoo.com>
> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 11:42 PM
> You can very likely get a 8049, a 2K
> ROM version of the 8048. TMP is probably a TI version. The
> is probably a CMOS version.
> 
> You can probably get a ROM dump from someone and either
> blow it into yours or reverse engineer it so you can buld it
> and add to it.
> 
> However, if you want a CPU project, you could pick almost
> anything even a decent PIC would work for you.
> 
> On 24-Mar-09, at 11:21 PM, Kyle Stephens wrote:
> 
> > 
> > As reference for a far-off someday project, of the
> cloning variety, what would be a modern replacement for the
> CPU in the SH-101?
> > 
> > I figure I could work backwards from there, once I
> have at least that down. Best I can narrow things down to is
> knowing that given the TMP80C49 was 8-bits, a replacement
> presumably would match that...?
> > 
> > 
> > _Kyle
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 


      


From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar 25 10:05:33 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:05:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] calculating resistance to match brighness across different
	colours of leds?
In-Reply-To: <134E1CB95B2F4DB3B9474967E2643B0B@legba>
References: <134E1CB95B2F4DB3B9474967E2643B0B@legba>
Message-ID: <BE759C71-22ED-4F12-81FA-206A187EA95A@electricdruid.net>

Julian,

Unfortunately I think you're right - this is difficult to work out  
simply on paper. Not only does the human eye have an uneven response  
to different wavelengths of light at the same luminosity, but LEDs  
have a non-linear response to current too. This is one reason why LED  
brightness is often controlled using PWM not current. It gives a more  
linear response and better control.

Consequently, the best way to match the brightness is probably just  
to try it. Get a load of different resistors and the LEDs and a few  
experimental subjects (family members are always good if you don't  
live on a busy thoroughfare...) and try it out on them!

HTH,
Tom

On 25 Mar 2009, at 01:04, Julian wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Rather than doing it 'by eye', i thought it was about time i should  
> do this properly -
>
> I have two leds, a red and a green.  The specs are:
>
> Red:
> Wavelength: 700
> Lum. int. (mcd) @ IF (20mA): 10
> IF max. (mA): 15
> VF typ. (V): 2.2
> VF max. (V): 2.8
>
> Green:
> Wavelength: 570
> Lum. int. (mcd) @ IF (20mA): 30
> IF max. (mA): 30
> VF typ. (V): 2.1
> VF max. (V): 2.8
>
>
> If i use a 10k resistor on the red led, and i want the green one  
> next to it to be, to the observer, the same brighness is this just
> a simple cacluation?
>
> Im concerned that it may not be simply a case of matching the  
> luminosity - i dont know, but does the human eye (assuming a 'normal'
> individual) have equal sensativity across the visable spectrum?
>
> Im thinking of how the ears are more sensative to treble than  
> bass... (?)
>
>
> Julian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar 25 10:17:46 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:17:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] SH-101 CPU
In-Reply-To: <788391.63261.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <788391.63261.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DE8F3816-EF57-4C1E-9C8F-0E2D337A73BB@electricdruid.net>

The original chip was 40-pin too, so you'd probably need something of  
that size. I'm using a 16F74 for my current MIDI experiments, which  
is a basic 8-bit, 40pin chip. There's a larger version with more  
memory too, the 16F77.
Alternatively, Seb Francis used the 16F877 in his 4xD delay, which is  
another, larger, 40-pin 8-bit chip.

One useful feature you could add would be a MIDI input. Most of these  
modern microchip PICs have a USART on the chip which is ideal for  
MIDI. It's also worth pointing out that the CPU in the SH101  
generates the LFO's random waveform by sending random values to a D/A  
convertor. Given that the hardware is open-ended in this respect, you  
could offer alternative LFO waveforms (staircase perhaps) by  
reprogramming the processor. You have similar options with other  
aspects of the SH101 which are controlled by the uP, such as the  
arpeggiator (new modes or patterns?) and the sequencer (longer  
sequence?).

It's an interesting idea. A replacement uP for the SH101 would be  
fairly simple, and might offer some considerable extras.

T.




On 25 Mar 2009, at 06:21, Kyle Stephens wrote:

>
> As reference for a far-off someday project, of the cloning variety,  
> what would be a modern replacement for the CPU in the SH-101?
>
> I figure I could work backwards from there, once I have at least  
> that down. Best I can narrow things down to is knowing that given  
> the TMP80C49 was 8-bits, a replacement presumably would match that...?
>
>
> _Kyle
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From dbarton at pacbell.net  Wed Mar 25 10:50:42 2009
From: dbarton at pacbell.net (db)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:50:42 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903242348060.3712@p4-1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090325024911.00c2f388@pop.att.yahoo.com>

At 3/24/2009 08:59 PM, Colin Hinz wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, db wrote:
>
>>I'm sure it's a good idea to have the cap...
>>But, I already fully built my device and closed it up without a cap, and 
>>don't want to get back into it unless it's semi-important..  :)
>
>One of my first tasks as a rookie EE (lo those many years ago) was
>to troubleshoot a microcontroller board which had strangely gone
>insane. It turned out that the 7805 regulator (lacking the recommended
>bypass caps) was oscillating between 3V and 7V. Looked OK when checked
>with a DVM, too -- I had to get wise with a scope, instead.
>"But it worked fine on the bench," the designer wailed.
>
>YMMV, of course. If it's gonna fail, though, it'll probably fail under
>the least desireable circumstances. You'll never say to yourself, "Boy,
>I'm glad I opened it up and put the cap in," but you sure might be
>saying, "Argh! I should have corrected that before I went on tour."


I guess I've now been convinced to do it. :)

Am I correct in that it just needs a .1uf  from 5v to gnd?


dennis.barton:skylab2000[socal]





From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar 25 12:24:59 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:24:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <49C973C2.3030907@xs4all.nl>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>	<1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>	<200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<3EFC3245-04FB-4400-B0D1-5076EEF22B8A@electricdruid.net>
	<49C973C2.3030907@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <90108A6E-A17E-469A-A8E4-62E972DCB3C0@electricdruid.net>

I've sorted this problem. It wasn't (directly) to do with the timing.  
Instead it was a quirk of how I'd sent bytes.
It turns out that if you send a byte then wait until it's sent, it  
doesn't work correctly, but if you wait until the last byte is sent,  
then send the new one, it's fine. Changing the order was enough to  
solve the problem.

For the PIC-minded, using TXIF to detect that TXREG is clear is fine,  
as long as you do it *before* you put data in. You don't need to wait  
until the TSR is empty and the TRMT bit is set.

Thanks again,
Tom



On 24 Mar 2009, at 23:58, Simon Brouwer wrote:

> Tom Wiltshire schreef:
>> One thing I've noticed with the transmit is that it is possible to  
>> send bytes from the PIC too quickly - there seems to be a minimum  
>> space required between them. Does anyone know how long this pause  
>> should be between the transmission of individual MIDI bytes? I can  
>> always find a value by trial and error, but that seems a bit  
>> uncertain.
> Then you probably don't check the UART transmit register empty flag  
> (in the PIC18Fxx20 for example, this is the TRMT bit in the TXSTA  
> register)?
> As long as you wait for the transmit register to become empty  
> before writing each byte, they will be transmitted correctly.
>
> -- 
> Vriendelijke groet, Simon Brouwer.
> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Wed Mar 25 13:03:48 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:03:48 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
Message-ID: <23088.81.58.240.234.1237982628.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>


Tom Wiltshire schreef:
(...)
> For the PIC-minded, using TXIF to detect that TXREG is clear is fine,
> as long as you do it *before* you put data in.

:)

-- 
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Wed Mar 25 13:04:01 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:04:01 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SH-101 CPU
In-Reply-To: <DE8F3816-EF57-4C1E-9C8F-0E2D337A73BB@electricdruid.net>
References: <788391.63261.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<DE8F3816-EF57-4C1E-9C8F-0E2D337A73BB@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49CA1DB1.6040504@mnet-online.de>

Hi Tom

> It's an interesting idea. A replacement uP for the SH101 would be fairly 
> simple, and might offer some considerable extras.
It is funny. I suggest this since years for different gear. It is cheap 
in production and you have a quite well known count of potential 
customers. Imagine a drop in CPU for the TR-808, with additional 
features everyone wants (switch play/write mode without stopping,
copy patterns, copy tracks between patterns, MIDI-control...).

If you build a complete new machine you will have big effort, low 
potential sales count and a low margin. If you build the perfect placein 
upgrade, then you have a much larger count of potential sales and a 
wider profit margin.

Florian


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 13:40:48 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:40:48 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <49C973C2.3030907@xs4all.nl>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>	<1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>	<200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>	<3EFC3245-04FB-4400-B0D1-5076EEF22B8A@electricdruid.net>
	<49C973C2.3030907@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <49CA2650.40502@burnit.co.uk>

Simon Brouwer wrote:
> Tom Wiltshire schreef:
>> One thing I've noticed with the transmit is that it is possible to 
>> send bytes from the PIC too quickly - there seems to be a minimum 
>> space required between them. Does anyone know how long this pause 
>> should be between the transmission of individual MIDI bytes? I can 
>> always find a value by trial and error, but that seems a bit uncertain.
> Then you probably don't check the UART transmit register empty flag 
> (in the PIC18Fxx20 for example, this is the TRMT bit in the TXSTA 
> register)?
> As long as you wait for the transmit register to become empty before 
> writing each byte, they will be transmitted correctly.
>

I would go along with this, but also add that you should be careful not 
to use all the MIDI bandwidth - consider if you are outputting MIDI 
messages in response to movement of pots, pitch bend wheels, etc.  Some 
older MIDI gear may not keep up with sustained fast data transmission, 
and even if this is not a problem, consider when this stream of data 
gets merged in your sequencer with some note on/off messages - then you 
have the strong possibility these time critical messages will get delayed.

For my JoyKontrol I make sure there is a gap of at least 1ms after every 
MIDI message, so effectively it can use at most 50% of the MIDI 
bandwidth.  This is probably still OTT in terms of information density 
but I wanted it to have a smooth response even to very fast moments of 
the controls (and anyway with most modern sequencers there is a function 
to reduce down continuous controller data if needed).

Seb





From julian at port23.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 13:47:05 2009
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:47:05 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] SH-101 CPU
References: <788391.63261.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com><DE8F3816-EF57-4C1E-9C8F-0E2D337A73BB@electricdruid.net>
	<49CA1DB1.6040504@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <F0F3E42173814B9EBD6AF27DCA5F3E25@legba>

>>Imagine a drop in CPU for the TR-808, with additional features everyone wants (switch play/write mode without stopping, copy 
>>patterns, copy tracks between patterns, MIDI-control...).


Id buy an 808 again if it could swap between write and play whilst still running.... : )

julian





From np at planetarc.de  Wed Mar 25 14:05:26 2009
From: np at planetarc.de (np)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:05:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] calculating resistance to match brighness across	different
	colours of leds?
In-Reply-To: <SNT104-W68ED9B5A2AF8EE02A8F9F4B4900@phx.gbl>
References: <134E1CB95B2F4DB3B9474967E2643B0B@legba>
	<SNT104-W68ED9B5A2AF8EE02A8F9F4B4900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49CA2C16.2090903@planetarc.de>

Scott Nordlund wrote:
> The eye is more sensitive to green, but I don't think it would be very easy to tell which is brighter just by looking at it.
>
> Maybe you could combine the light of both and adjust for a reasonable yellow color.
>
>   
The percieved brightness depends not only on wavelength, but on the 
luminosity and the wavelength perceived by the surrounding perceptors 
ect. A highly complex thing. There is one good thing about the eye and 
the perception though: If you're close in brightness the eye will equal 
out the differences for you.


As a rule of thumb I can give you the relative sensitivities for CRT 
phosphors. If your LED wavelength are in the same ballpark, and you want 
the LEDs to be relative bright it should be okay.

Sensitivity for blue: 0.144 green: 0.587 red: 0.299

E.g. if you want a blue light to be as bright as a red one you need 
0.299/0.144 times the luminous intensity from the blue source to get the 
same percieved brightness.


Cheers,
  Nils.

 


From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar 25 14:45:11 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:45:11 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <49CA2650.40502@burnit.co.uk>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>	<1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>	<200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>	<3EFC3245-04FB-4400-B0D1-5076EEF22B8A@electricdruid.net>
	<49C973C2.3030907@xs4all.nl> <49CA2650.40502@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <60AC4D4E-55C9-41F4-910B-4B1DA71977E0@electricdruid.net>


On 25 Mar 2009, at 12:40, Seb Francis wrote:
>
> I would go along with this, but also add that you should be careful  
> not to use all the MIDI bandwidth - consider if you are outputting  
> MIDI messages in response to movement of pots, pitch bend wheels,  
> etc.  Some older MIDI gear may not keep up with sustained fast data  
> transmission, and even if this is not a problem, consider when this  
> stream of data gets merged in your sequencer with some note on/off  
> messages - then you have the strong possibility these time critical  
> messages will get delayed.
>
> For my JoyKontrol I make sure there is a gap of at least 1ms after  
> every MIDI message, so effectively it can use at most 50% of the  
> MIDI bandwidth.  This is probably still OTT in terms of information  
> density but I wanted it to have a smooth response even to very fast  
> moments of the controls (and anyway with most modern sequencers  
> there is a function to reduce down continuous controller data if  
> needed).
>
> Seb

Yes, this is important to consider. For now, it doesn't matter, since  
I'm only dealing with scanning the keyboard and sending note ons/ 
offs. These only occur when a key is pressed or released, and I'm  
assuming that physics and human limitations will mean that notes  
can't be repeated faster than 1mS, even if the keyboard were scanned  
much faster than that.

  For continuous controllers, I'd better think of a better way -  
either only scan them periodically, or only send a new MIDI message  
when the value has changed by a significant amount.

T.




From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Wed Mar 25 14:49:11 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:49:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] SH-101 CPU
In-Reply-To: <F0F3E42173814B9EBD6AF27DCA5F3E25@legba>
References: <788391.63261.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com><DE8F3816-EF57-4C1E-9C8F-0E2D337A73BB@electricdruid.net>
	<49CA1DB1.6040504@mnet-online.de>
	<F0F3E42173814B9EBD6AF27DCA5F3E25@legba>
Message-ID: <49CA3657.4070308@mnet-online.de>

Hi Julian


> Id buy an 808 again if it could swap between write and play whilst still running.... : )
its more important that you would buy the addon. :-)

We had this discussion at the german forum of www.sequencer.de when
talking about the acidlab miami.

Klaus may sell around 100 "miami"'s within the next 5 years. I assume
his over all costs per piece are 400Euro net and he sells for 800Euro.
So he will earn 40000 Euros in 5 years, which is 5000 Euros a year -
pre-tax!

If he would do a perfect CPU-replacement for existing 808's, the
production costs would be maybe 60Euros and he could sell it for
300Euros. Lets assume there were 10000 808's produced by roland and he
now may have a potential market of 2000 customers. The most optimistic
calculation says are 480000Euros in five years (which is 96000 Euros a
year!!!) and even if he sells only 1/10th it would be still 9600 Euros a
year

Florian



From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 15:25:46 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:25:46 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <967792.80765.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <967792.80765.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W3AE1855F6009F47428589F5900@phx.gbl>


Hey all,

I think to keep feature creep down to whatever people feel comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can include or omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda wavering on the suboscillator on the output because of the low range switch.

I'm thinking about putting the external clocks after Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized for the internal clocks so you disconnect the internal clocks by plugging into the jack. the question is, would anything work to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something in to convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square wave?

Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with either an internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger or with an external input.

Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with possible switches to allow clock through from the external clock jacks.

I feel obliged to have an output level control because most existing modules don't have input level controls, except maybe some filters that have built in mixers (MFOS). This brings up another qiestion of a module of multiples that have attenuators before every out....

If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted to add a filter or two, but as this is intended for a modular unit, no filter.

How do people feel about it outputting two or three different waveforms?

As for sound... I have to admit haven't breadboarded this incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I did which had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly between a few of the notes depending on how the clocks were set. I'm going to try to get this version breadboarded sometime next week because this week is a little hectic.

-Ian

> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> 
> 
> I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we got:
> 
> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual outs and/or summed staircase out
> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or gates
> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or C with Vactrols
> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit, pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
> -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
> 
> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along already) to let an external filter do the work.
> 
> And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting stuff to be had here:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
> 
> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
> 
> 
> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!
> 
> 
> _Kyle
> 
> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz  wrote:
> 
>> From: Colin Hinz 
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> To: "synth diy" 
>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up for that
>> pseudo-random tone
>>> generator.
>>>
>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>> 
>> Interesting! How does it sound?
>> 
>>> If there's anything anyone can think of to add to it
>> feature-wise
>>> that would make it a decent module, I'm open to
>> suggestions.
>>> (trigger outputs, different waveforms, multiple voices
>> in one
>>> package, etc.)
>> 
>> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb simple
>> waveshaping or
>> filtering?
>> 
>> - Colin
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009


From Chris.Strellis at crystalvision.tv  Wed Mar 25 16:29:15 2009
From: Chris.Strellis at crystalvision.tv (Chris Strellis)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:29:15 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] SH-101 CPU
In-Reply-To: <49CA1DB1.6040504@mnet-online.de>
References: <788391.63261.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com><DE8F3816-EF57-4C1E-9C8F-0E2D337A73BB@electricdruid.net>
	<49CA1DB1.6040504@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <77638F7A1E0E0A48B3E118AF250D1FC8C7600B@crystalvision02.Crystal.local>

> It is funny. I suggest this since years for different gear. It is
cheap
> in production and you have a quite well known count of potential
> customers. Imagine a drop in CPU for the TR-808, with additional
> features everyone wants (switch play/write mode without stopping,
> copy patterns, copy tracks between patterns, MIDI-control...).

A guy has done a similar thing for the Poly 800 - implementing many more
feature and controls than the original.

http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/hawk800/

Although in this case I don't think it's worth it as you might as well
get a DW8000 which would be cheaper than a Poly 800 plus Hawk 800.

Cheers

Chris



From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 17:36:49 2009
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:36:49 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] SH-101 CPU
In-Reply-To: <77638F7A1E0E0A48B3E118AF250D1FC8C7600B@crystalvision02.Crystal.local>
References: <788391.63261.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<DE8F3816-EF57-4C1E-9C8F-0E2D337A73BB@electricdruid.net>
	<49CA1DB1.6040504@mnet-online.de>
	<77638F7A1E0E0A48B3E118AF250D1FC8C7600B@crystalvision02.Crystal.local>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80903250936uabadd85hcf9a0f688449d1d5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Chris Strellis
<Chris.Strellis at crystalvision.tv> wrote:

> A guy has done a similar thing for the Poly 800 - implementing many more
> feature and controls than the original.
>
> http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/hawk800/
>
> Although in this case I don't think it's worth it as you might as well
> get a DW8000 which would be cheaper than a Poly 800 plus Hawk 800.
>

Uhhuh, I doubt that's a fair comparison. But thanks, I bet many of us
always had their doubts about 800's and felt it was lacking, but this
mod makes it something to consider. And the price is fair.

Samppa


From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 17:44:55 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:44:55 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W21034E1D477575EEA87D16C8900@phx.gbl>
References: <967792.80765.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BAY141-W3AE1855F6009F47428589F5900@phx.gbl>
	<BAY144-W21034E1D477575EEA87D16C8900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W28CE50AF0EEEDEC7410528F5900@phx.gbl>


That it is Dan. I keep forgetting what school the project came out of, just that the hand drawn schematic leaves a whole lot to be desired.
-Ian

> is this based of the original MIT project? maybe not as that used a 555.
>
> i had bread boarded that at some point long ago and it was great once i added external cv.
>
>
>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:25:46 -0500
>>
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever people feel comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can include or omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda wavering on the suboscillator on the output because of the low range switch.
>>
>> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks after Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized for the internal clocks so you disconnect the internal clocks by plugging into the jack. the question is, would anything work to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something in to convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square wave?
>>
>> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with either an internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger or with an external input.
>>
>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with possible switches to allow clock through from the external clock jacks.
>>
>> I feel obliged to have an output level control because most existing modules don't have input level controls, except maybe some filters that have built in mixers (MFOS). This brings up another qiestion of a module of multiples that have attenuators before every out....
>>
>> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted to add a filter or two, but as this is intended for a modular unit, no filter.
>>
>> How do people feel about it outputting two or three different waveforms?
>>
>> As for sound... I have to admit haven't breadboarded this incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I did which had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly between a few of the notes depending on how the clocks were set. I'm going to try to get this version breadboarded sometime next week because this week is a little hectic.
>>
>> -Ian
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we got:
>>>
>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual outs and/or summed staircase out
>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or gates
>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or C with Vactrols
>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit, pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
>>> -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>
>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along already) to let an external filter do the work.
>>>
>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting stuff to be had here:
>>>
>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>
>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!
>>>
>>>
>>> _Kyle
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up for that
>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>> generator.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
>>>>
>>>>> If there's anything anyone can think of to add to it
>>>> feature-wise
>>>>> that would make it a decent module, I'm open to
>>>> suggestions.
>>>>> (trigger outputs, different waveforms, multiple voices
>>>> in one
>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb simple
>>>> waveshaping or
>>>> filtering?
>>>>
>>>> - Colin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?.
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From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 17:51:21 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
Message-ID: <965334.80042.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


That's another good idea, having the board in and of itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend matrix... lot's of possibilities.

You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that for you, though the standard square out could be put into an external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.

This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't find the link myself now, but I recall there were two samples on the page for it...


_Kyle

--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith <taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Ian Smith <taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: "synth diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever people feel
> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can include or
> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda wavering on the
> suboscillator on the output because of the low range
> switch.
> 
> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks after
> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized for the
> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal clocks by
> plugging into the jack. the question is, would anything work
> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something in to
> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square wave?
> 
> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with either an
> internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger or with an
> external input.
> 
> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with possible
> switches to allow clock through from the external clock
> jacks.
> 
> I feel obliged to have an output level control because most
> existing modules don't have input level controls, except
> maybe some filters that have built in mixers (MFOS). This
> brings up another qiestion of a module of multiples that
> have attenuators before every out....
> 
> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted to add a
> filter or two, but as this is intended for a modular unit,
> no filter.
> 
> How do people feel about it outputting two or three
> different waveforms?
> 
> As for sound... I have to admit haven't breadboarded this
> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I did which
> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly between a few
> of the notes depending on how the clocks were set. I'm going
> to try to get this version breadboarded sometime next week
> because this week is a little hectic.
> 
> -Ian
> 
> > Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
> > From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > 
> > 
> > I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we
> got:
> > 
> > -4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual
> outs and/or summed staircase out
> > -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or
> gates
> > -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or
> C with Vactrols
> > -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
> > -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit,
> pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
> > -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or
> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
> > http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
> > 
> > As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch
> with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep
> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along
> already) to let an external filter do the work.
> > 
> > And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting
> stuff to be had here:
> > 
> > http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
> > 
> > Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
> > 
> > 
> > Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!
> > 
> > 
> > _Kyle
> > 
> > --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz? wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Colin Hinz 
> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> >> To: "synth diy" 
> >> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
> >> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up
> for that
> >> pseudo-random tone
> >>> generator.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
> >> 
> >> Interesting! How does it sound?
> >> 
> >>> If there's anything anyone can think of to add
> to it
> >> feature-wise
> >>> that would make it a decent module, I'm open
> to
> >> suggestions.
> >>> (trigger outputs, different waveforms,
> multiple voices
> >> in one
> >>> package, etc.)
> >> 
> >> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb
> simple
> >> waveshaping or
> >> filtering?
> >> 
> >> - Colin
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> >? ? ???
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online
> storage.
> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 18:46:52 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:46:52 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <60AC4D4E-55C9-41F4-910B-4B1DA71977E0@electricdruid.net>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>	<1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>	<200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>	<3EFC3245-04FB-4400-B0D1-5076EEF22B8A@electricdruid.net>
	<49C973C2.3030907@xs4all.nl> <49CA2650.40502@burnit.co.uk>
	<60AC4D4E-55C9-41F4-910B-4B1DA71977E0@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <49CA6E0C.70300@burnit.co.uk>

Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>
>
>  For continuous controllers, I'd better think of a better way - either 
> only scan them periodically, or only send a new MIDI message when the 
> value has changed by a significant amount.
>

I think you'll want to do the former otherwise you'll loose resolution 
when a knob is turned slowly.  A bit of hysteresis helps to avoid jitter 
(is that the right word? - I'm jumping back and forwards between nearby 
values) due to electrical noise, ADC inaccuracy, etc.

Seb





From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 19:02:45 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:02:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <965334.80042.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <965334.80042.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W86FA11784583A03772F34C8900@phx.gbl>



here is the link to the MIT design


http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html

there is a link toward the bottom to an older one as well

i recorded samples of both at SOME point last year


very cool

but real schematics of both would be great!! or pcbs even better!!!

will this be PRESs N PEEL? or real boards (either would be very useful)

--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page





> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
>
> That's another good idea, having the board in and of itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>
> You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that for you, though the standard square out could be put into an external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.
>
> This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't find the link myself now, but I recall there were two samples on the page for it...
>
>
> _Kyle
>
> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
>
>> From: Ian Smith
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> To: "synth diy"
>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever people feel
>> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can include or
>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda wavering on the
>> suboscillator on the output because of the low range
>> switch.
>>
>> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks after
>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized for the
>> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal clocks by
>> plugging into the jack. the question is, would anything work
>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something in to
>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square wave?
>>
>> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with either an
>> internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger or with an
>> external input.
>>
>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with possible
>> switches to allow clock through from the external clock
>> jacks.
>>
>> I feel obliged to have an output level control because most
>> existing modules don't have input level controls, except
>> maybe some filters that have built in mixers (MFOS). This
>> brings up another qiestion of a module of multiples that
>> have attenuators before every out....
>>
>> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted to add a
>> filter or two, but as this is intended for a modular unit,
>> no filter.
>>
>> How do people feel about it outputting two or three
>> different waveforms?
>>
>> As for sound... I have to admit haven't breadboarded this
>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I did which
>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly between a few
>> of the notes depending on how the clocks were set. I'm going
>> to try to get this version breadboarded sometime next week
>> because this week is a little hectic.
>>
>> -Ian
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we
>> got:
>>>
>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual
>> outs and/or summed staircase out
>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or
>> gates
>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or
>> C with Vactrols
>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit,
>> pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
>>> -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or
>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>
>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch
>> with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep
>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along
>> already) to let an external filter do the work.
>>>
>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting
>> stuff to be had here:
>>>
>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>
>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!
>>>
>>>
>>> _Kyle
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up
>> for that
>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>> generator.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
>>>>
>>>>> If there's anything anyone can think of to add
>> to it
>>>> feature-wise
>>>>> that would make it a decent module, I'm open
>> to
>>>> suggestions.
>>>>> (trigger outputs, different waveforms,
>> multiple voices
>>>> in one
>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb
>> simple
>>>> waveshaping or
>>>> filtering?
>>>>
>>>> - Colin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online
>> storage.
>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 19:22:15 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:22:15 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <965334.80042.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <965334.80042.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W54FE3478219B337BF0E866F5900@phx.gbl>


Kyle, 

Yeah, the original is the MIT class project. I trawled through the archive to find the links again.

http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html

http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html

I'm also going to be posting those links on my web page over at sdiy.org so I won't lose the things again.

http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/

-Ian

----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
>
> That's another good idea, having the board in and of itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>
> You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that for you, though the standard square out could be put into an external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.
>
> This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't find the link myself now, but I recall there were two samples on the page for it...
>
>
> _Kyle
>
> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith  wrote:
>
>> From: Ian Smith 
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> To: "synth diy" 
>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever people feel
>> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can include or
>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda wavering on the
>> suboscillator on the output because of the low range
>> switch.
>>
>> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks after
>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized for the
>> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal clocks by
>> plugging into the jack. the question is, would anything work
>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something in to
>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square wave?
>>
>> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with either an
>> internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger or with an
>> external input.
>>
>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with possible
>> switches to allow clock through from the external clock
>> jacks.
>>
>> I feel obliged to have an output level control because most
>> existing modules don't have input level controls, except
>> maybe some filters that have built in mixers (MFOS). This
>> brings up another qiestion of a module of multiples that
>> have attenuators before every out....
>>
>> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted to add a
>> filter or two, but as this is intended for a modular unit,
>> no filter.
>>
>> How do people feel about it outputting two or three
>> different waveforms?
>>
>> As for sound... I have to admit haven't breadboarded this
>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I did which
>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly between a few
>> of the notes depending on how the clocks were set. I'm going
>> to try to get this version breadboarded sometime next week
>> because this week is a little hectic.
>>
>> -Ian
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we
>> got:
>>>
>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual
>> outs and/or summed staircase out
>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or
>> gates
>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or
>> C with Vactrols
>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit,
>> pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
>>> -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or
>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>
>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch
>> with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep
>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along
>> already) to let an external filter do the work.
>>>
>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting
>> stuff to be had here:
>>>
>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>
>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!
>>>
>>>
>>> _Kyle
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up
>> for that
>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>> generator.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
>>>>
>>>>> If there's anything anyone can think of to add
>> to it
>>>> feature-wise
>>>>> that would make it a decent module, I'm open
>> to
>>>> suggestions.
>>>>> (trigger outputs, different waveforms,
>> multiple voices
>>>> in one
>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb
>> simple
>>>> waveshaping or
>>>> filtering?
>>>>
>>>> - Colin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online
>> storage.
>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?.
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From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 19:27:24 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
Message-ID: <307605.21327.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Ah, there we go! Thanks Dan.

The demo's don't break into real glitchcore tempos, but it's nifty alright nonetheless.


_Kyle

--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com, "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 11:02 AM
> 
> 
> here is the link to the MIT design
> 
> 
> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
> 
> there is a link toward the bottom to an older one as well
> 
> i recorded samples of both at SOME point last year
> 
> 
> very cool
> 
> but real schematics of both would be great!! or pcbs even
> better!!!
> 
> will this be PRESs N PEEL? or real boards (either would be
> very useful)
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
>  http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
> > From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >
> >
> > That's another good idea, having the board in and of
> itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to
> cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend
> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
> >
> > You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth (teeth?
> heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that for you,
> though the standard square out could be put into an external
> VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.
> >
> > This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't find
> the link myself now, but I recall there were two samples on
> the page for it...
> >
> >
> > _Kyle
> >
> > --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
> >
> >> From: Ian Smith
> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> >> To: "synth diy"
> >> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
> >>
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever
> people feel
> >> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can
> include or
> >> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda
> wavering on the
> >> suboscillator on the output because of the low
> range
> >> switch.
> >>
> >> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks
> after
> >> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized
> for the
> >> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal
> clocks by
> >> plugging into the jack. the question is, would
> anything work
> >> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something
> in to
> >> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square
> wave?
> >>
> >> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with
> either an
> >> internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger
> or with an
> >> external input.
> >>
> >> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with
> possible
> >> switches to allow clock through from the external
> clock
> >> jacks.
> >>
> >> I feel obliged to have an output level control
> because most
> >> existing modules don't have input level controls,
> except
> >> maybe some filters that have built in mixers
> (MFOS). This
> >> brings up another qiestion of a module of
> multiples that
> >> have attenuators before every out....
> >>
> >> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted
> to add a
> >> filter or two, but as this is intended for a
> modular unit,
> >> no filter.
> >>
> >> How do people feel about it outputting two or
> three
> >> different waveforms?
> >>
> >> As for sound... I have to admit haven't
> breadboarded this
> >> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I
> did which
> >> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly
> between a few
> >> of the notes depending on how the clocks were set.
> I'm going
> >> to try to get this version breadboarded sometime
> next week
> >> because this week is a little hectic.
> >>
> >> -Ian
> >>
> >>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
> >>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus
> far we
> >> got:
> >>>
> >>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output;
> individual
> >> outs and/or summed staircase out
> >>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as
> CV or
> >> gates
> >>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts
> A, B, or
> >> C with Vactrols
> >>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
> >>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the
> circuit,
> >> pending they give dramatically different enough
> outputs
> >>> -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A,
> B, or
> >> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
> >>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
> >>>
> >>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary
> switch
> >> with various cap values on the output. I reckon
> it'd keep
> >> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been
> chugging along
> >> already) to let an external filter do the work.
> >>>
> >>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some
> interesting
> >> stuff to be had here:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
> >>>
> >>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is
> too!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _Kyle
> >>>
> >>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz? wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From: Colin Hinz
> >>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
> >>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that I
> drew up
> >> for that
> >>>> pseudo-random tone
> >>>>> generator.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
> >>>>
> >>>>> If there's anything anyone can think
> of to add
> >> to it
> >>>> feature-wise
> >>>>> that would make it a decent module,
> I'm open
> >> to
> >>>> suggestions.
> >>>>> (trigger outputs, different
> waveforms,
> >> multiple voices
> >>>> in one
> >>>>> package, etc.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Output level control, with perhaps some
> dumb
> >> simple
> >>>> waveshaping or
> >>>> filtering?
> >>>>
> >>>> - Colin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free
> online
> >> storage.
> >> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      



From igg.debus at t-online.de  Wed Mar 25 19:32:36 2009
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:32:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>
	<1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>
	<200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
Message-ID: <25AC1E82-22D3-4641-970A-49D2A286B41C@t-online.de>


Am 24.03.2009 um 21:13 schrieb ASSI:

> On Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2009, Ingo Debus wrote:
>> But only if an active sensing msg has been received recently - many
>> MIDI devices don't send active sensing at all. You'd be shutting
>> off the notes all the time.
>
> The MIDI spec says that active sensing is to be activated if you have
> been receiving at least one active sense byte and no provision is made
> to switch it off based on the reception (or not) of further active
> sensing events.  You would have to receive a system reset to revert to
> default state

You mean, once a active sensing message has been received, notes have  
always to be shut off when no more active sensings are coming in?

This seems a bit problematic to me. Imagine someone hooks a keyboard  
that is sending active sensing messages to a synth, then switches to  
another keyboard (either by hot-plugging or by a MIDI switch) that  
doesn't. It just wouldn't work. Since most musicians aren't MIDI  
wizards they surely would think either their synth or their keyboard  
had gone bad.

Ingo


From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 19:40:27 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:40:27 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W86FA11784583A03772F34C8900@phx.gbl>
References: <965334.80042.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BAY144-W86FA11784583A03772F34C8900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W2A3F2BB407218B120D2F7F5900@phx.gbl>


Damn you and your speedy response Dan!

I can do real schematics of both of those and post them as well. 

As for PCBs... I'm going to do a press&peel of my project for my own futzing to make sure the thing works, but I would probably send out teh design and get real PCBs made... Yellow mask... Black silkscreen... f(form) logo

In the spirit of SDIY I'll post the top and bottom traces and silkscreen of the board once I make my own. So you can make your own board or get one from me as you choose.

-Ian

----------------------------------------
> From: subjectivity at hotmail.com
> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:02:45 +0000
> CC:
>
>
>
> here is the link to the MIT design
>
>
> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
>
> there is a link toward the bottom to an older one as well
>
> i recorded samples of both at SOME point last year
>
>
> very cool
>
> but real schematics of both would be great!! or pcbs even better!!!
>
> will this be PRESs N PEEL? or real boards (either would be very useful)
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
> (updated monthly)
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
> AUDIO ARK:
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>
>>
>> That's another good idea, having the board in and of itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>>
>> You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that for you, though the standard square out could be put into an external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.
>>
>> This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't find the link myself now, but I recall there were two samples on the page for it...
>>
>>
>> _Kyle
>>
>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
>>
>>> From: Ian Smith
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> To: "synth diy"
>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever people feel
>>> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can include or
>>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda wavering on the
>>> suboscillator on the output because of the low range
>>> switch.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks after
>>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized for the
>>> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal clocks by
>>> plugging into the jack. the question is, would anything work
>>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something in to
>>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square wave?
>>>
>>> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with either an
>>> internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger or with an
>>> external input.
>>>
>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with possible
>>> switches to allow clock through from the external clock
>>> jacks.
>>>
>>> I feel obliged to have an output level control because most
>>> existing modules don't have input level controls, except
>>> maybe some filters that have built in mixers (MFOS). This
>>> brings up another qiestion of a module of multiples that
>>> have attenuators before every out....
>>>
>>> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted to add a
>>> filter or two, but as this is intended for a modular unit,
>>> no filter.
>>>
>>> How do people feel about it outputting two or three
>>> different waveforms?
>>>
>>> As for sound... I have to admit haven't breadboarded this
>>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I did which
>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly between a few
>>> of the notes depending on how the clocks were set. I'm going
>>> to try to get this version breadboarded sometime next week
>>> because this week is a little hectic.
>>>
>>> -Ian
>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we
>>> got:
>>>>
>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual
>>> outs and/or summed staircase out
>>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or
>>> gates
>>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or
>>> C with Vactrols
>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit,
>>> pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
>>>> -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or
>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>>
>>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch
>>> with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep
>>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along
>>> already) to let an external filter do the work.
>>>>
>>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting
>>> stuff to be had here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _Kyle
>>>>
>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up
>>> for that
>>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>>> generator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
>>>>>
>>>>>> If there's anything anyone can think of to add
>>> to it
>>>>> feature-wise
>>>>>> that would make it a decent module, I'm open
>>> to
>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>> (trigger outputs, different waveforms,
>>> multiple voices
>>>>> in one
>>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb
>>> simple
>>>>> waveshaping or
>>>>> filtering?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Colin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online
>>> storage.
>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Get quick access to your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. 
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From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 20:07:12 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:07:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W2A3F2BB407218B120D2F7F5900@phx.gbl>
References: <965334.80042.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BAY144-W86FA11784583A03772F34C8900@phx.gbl>
	<BAY141-W2A3F2BB407218B120D2F7F5900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W4832EE0A7A217B279D0110C8900@phx.gbl>



well i like your attitude!

hell with my backlog (due to the baby) i dont know which i would get done quicker!
most likely i will be buying a few from you


OH i forgot to put in recommendations though


let me do that before you finish

ok...i always thought these were really powerful circuits
especially when combined with other things

as a pcb they would be really useful as pesudo random gens


but i would hate to get a pcb that is only good for taking an out from One place in the circuit

there are many other fine places in the device to take out gates, cv etc

so just make sure to have some pads at different points along the way...PLEASE

they dont even have to be well marked

thanks



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:40:27 -0500
>
>
> Damn you and your speedy response Dan!
>
> I can do real schematics of both of those and post them as well.
>
> As for PCBs... I'm going to do a press&peel of my project for my own futzing to make sure the thing works, but I would probably send out teh design and get real PCBs made... Yellow mask... Black silkscreen... f(form) logo
>
> In the spirit of SDIY I'll post the top and bottom traces and silkscreen of the board once I make my own. So you can make your own board or get one from me as you choose.
>
> -Ian
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: subjectivity at hotmail.com
>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:02:45 +0000
>> CC:
>>
>>
>>
>> here is the link to the MIT design
>>
>>
>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
>>
>> there is a link toward the bottom to an older one as well
>>
>> i recorded samples of both at SOME point last year
>>
>>
>> very cool
>>
>> but real schematics of both would be great!! or pcbs even better!!!
>>
>> will this be PRESs N PEEL? or real boards (either would be very useful)
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> check out various dan music at:
>>
>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>
>> (updated monthly)
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>
>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>
>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>
>> AUDIO ARK:
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>
>>>
>>> That's another good idea, having the board in and of itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>>>
>>> You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that for you, though the standard square out could be put into an external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.
>>>
>>> This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't find the link myself now, but I recall there were two samples on the page for it...
>>>
>>>
>>> _Kyle
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Ian Smith
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
>>>>
>>>> Hey all,
>>>>
>>>> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever people feel
>>>> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can include or
>>>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda wavering on the
>>>> suboscillator on the output because of the low range
>>>> switch.
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks after
>>>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized for the
>>>> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal clocks by
>>>> plugging into the jack. the question is, would anything work
>>>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something in to
>>>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square wave?
>>>>
>>>> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with either an
>>>> internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger or with an
>>>> external input.
>>>>
>>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with possible
>>>> switches to allow clock through from the external clock
>>>> jacks.
>>>>
>>>> I feel obliged to have an output level control because most
>>>> existing modules don't have input level controls, except
>>>> maybe some filters that have built in mixers (MFOS). This
>>>> brings up another qiestion of a module of multiples that
>>>> have attenuators before every out....
>>>>
>>>> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted to add a
>>>> filter or two, but as this is intended for a modular unit,
>>>> no filter.
>>>>
>>>> How do people feel about it outputting two or three
>>>> different waveforms?
>>>>
>>>> As for sound... I have to admit haven't breadboarded this
>>>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I did which
>>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly between a few
>>>> of the notes depending on how the clocks were set. I'm going
>>>> to try to get this version breadboarded sometime next week
>>>> because this week is a little hectic.
>>>>
>>>> -Ian
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we
>>>> got:
>>>>>
>>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual
>>>> outs and/or summed staircase out
>>>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or
>>>> gates
>>>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or
>>>> C with Vactrols
>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
>>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit,
>>>> pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
>>>>> -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or
>>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>>>
>>>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch
>>>> with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep
>>>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along
>>>> already) to let an external filter do the work.
>>>>>
>>>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting
>>>> stuff to be had here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up
>>>> for that
>>>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>>>> generator.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there's anything anyone can think of to add
>>>> to it
>>>>>> feature-wise
>>>>>>> that would make it a decent module, I'm open
>>>> to
>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>> (trigger outputs, different waveforms,
>>>> multiple voices
>>>>>> in one
>>>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb
>>>> simple
>>>>>> waveshaping or
>>>>>> filtering?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Colin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online
>>>> storage.
>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get quick access to your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8.
> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 20:18:43 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:18:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W54FE3478219B337BF0E866F5900@phx.gbl>
References: <965334.80042.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BAY141-W54FE3478219B337BF0E866F5900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W4028C39F195D2949891119C8900@phx.gbl>


in case my last post didnt make sense.,.i would buy a bunch of these if i thought that

1. they had a pad for external clock (and i could worry about whether or not your device could handle my clock)
2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1, q, etc
3, it had some pads out at say ic4 q3, q4,etc
4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or i1d

bascially then i could use these pcbs for all kinds of weird duties.

i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.

and i think the single most powerful aspect of a board like this is how MANY points you can take stuff, useful weird stuff, out of it


does this make any sense?

maybe this would be too crazy

thanks



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:22:15 -0500
> CC:
>
>
> Kyle,
>
> Yeah, the original is the MIT class project. I trawled through the archive to find the links again.
>
> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
>
> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
>
> I'm also going to be posting those links on my web page over at sdiy.org so I won't lose the things again.
>
> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
>
> -Ian
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>
>>
>> That's another good idea, having the board in and of itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>>
>> You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that for you, though the standard square out could be put into an external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.
>>
>> This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't find the link myself now, but I recall there were two samples on the page for it...
>>
>>
>> _Kyle
>>
>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
>>
>>> From: Ian Smith
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> To: "synth diy"
>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever people feel
>>> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can include or
>>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda wavering on the
>>> suboscillator on the output because of the low range
>>> switch.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks after
>>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized for the
>>> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal clocks by
>>> plugging into the jack. the question is, would anything work
>>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something in to
>>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square wave?
>>>
>>> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with either an
>>> internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger or with an
>>> external input.
>>>
>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with possible
>>> switches to allow clock through from the external clock
>>> jacks.
>>>
>>> I feel obliged to have an output level control because most
>>> existing modules don't have input level controls, except
>>> maybe some filters that have built in mixers (MFOS). This
>>> brings up another qiestion of a module of multiples that
>>> have attenuators before every out....
>>>
>>> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted to add a
>>> filter or two, but as this is intended for a modular unit,
>>> no filter.
>>>
>>> How do people feel about it outputting two or three
>>> different waveforms?
>>>
>>> As for sound... I have to admit haven't breadboarded this
>>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I did which
>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly between a few
>>> of the notes depending on how the clocks were set. I'm going
>>> to try to get this version breadboarded sometime next week
>>> because this week is a little hectic.
>>>
>>> -Ian
>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we
>>> got:
>>>>
>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual
>>> outs and/or summed staircase out
>>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or
>>> gates
>>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or
>>> C with Vactrols
>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit,
>>> pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
>>>> -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or
>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>>
>>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch
>>> with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep
>>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along
>>> already) to let an external filter do the work.
>>>>
>>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting
>>> stuff to be had here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _Kyle
>>>>
>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up
>>> for that
>>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>>> generator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
>>>>>
>>>>>> If there's anything anyone can think of to add
>>> to it
>>>>> feature-wise
>>>>>> that would make it a decent module, I'm open
>>> to
>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>> (trigger outputs, different waveforms,
>>> multiple voices
>>>>> in one
>>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb
>>> simple
>>>>> waveshaping or
>>>>> filtering?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Colin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online
>>> storage.
>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?.
> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Wed Mar 25 20:41:08 2009
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:41:08 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <25AC1E82-22D3-4641-970A-49D2A286B41C@t-online.de>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<25AC1E82-22D3-4641-970A-49D2A286B41C@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <200903252041.08396.Stromeko@nexgo.de>

On Mittwoch, 25. M?rz 2009, Ingo Debus wrote:
> You mean, once a active sensing message has been received, notes
> have always to be shut off when no more active sensings are coming
> in?

You can read the wording in the original draft spec that way (as you 
may know the draft version of what became the 1.0 spec is available on 
the net, while the official spec documents need to be bought from the 
MMA).  However I've looked around on midi.org to find that they've 
clarified the situation as follows:

"Active Sensing. Use of this message is optional. When initially sent, 
the receiver will expect to receive another Active Sensing message 
each 300ms (max), or it will be assume that the connection has been 
terminated. At termination, the receiver will turn off all voices and 
return to normal (non- active sensing) operation."

This covers your scenario.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk]>+

Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs





From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 20:50:35 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
Message-ID: <934023.3294.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Naw, not too crazy. That was the multi-tap out idea I had. There would just need to be some poking around to see which points would be the most viable. I can't the Boolean algebra yet, but I bet within the circuit there will be two point having either the same/close eniugh not to matter signal, or something equally benign like a simple inversion.

I'm all for PCBs too! I like that the parts herein are pretty cheap, all ICs less than a dollar each (hell, 50 cents even), at surplus prices.


_Kyle

--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com, lightburnx at yahoo.com, "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 12:18 PM
> 
> in case my last post didnt make sense.,.i would buy a bunch
> of these if i thought that
> 
> 1. they had a pad for external clock (and i could worry
> about whether or not your device could handle my clock)
> 2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1, q, etc
> 3, it had some pads out at say ic4 q3, q4,etc
> 4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or i1d
> 
> bascially then i could use these pcbs for all kinds of
> weird duties.
> 
> i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.
> 
> and i think the single most powerful aspect of a board like
> this is how MANY points you can take stuff, useful weird
> stuff, out of it
> 
> 
> does this make any sense?
> 
> maybe this would be too crazy
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
> > To: lightburnx at yahoo.com;
> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:22:15 -0500
> > CC:
> >
> >
> > Kyle,
> >
> > Yeah, the original is the MIT class project. I trawled
> through the archive to find the links again.
> >
> > http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
> >
> > http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
> >
> > I'm also going to be posting those links on my web
> page over at sdiy.org so I won't lose the things again.
> >
> > http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
> >
> > -Ian
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
> >> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> >> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>
> >>
> >> That's another good idea, having the board in and
> of itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to
> cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend
> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
> >>
> >> You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth
> (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that
> for you, though the standard square out could be put into an
> external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.
> >>
> >> This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't
> find the link myself now, but I recall there were two
> samples on the page for it...
> >>
> >>
> >> _Kyle
> >>
> >> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>> From: Ian Smith
> >>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>> To: "synth diy"
> >>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
> >>>
> >>> Hey all,
> >>>
> >>> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever
> people feel
> >>> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you
> can include or
> >>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda
> wavering on the
> >>> suboscillator on the output because of the low
> range
> >>> switch.
> >>>
> >>> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks
> after
> >>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks
> normalized for the
> >>> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal
> clocks by
> >>> plugging into the jack. the question is, would
> anything work
> >>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put
> something in to
> >>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square
> wave?
> >>>
> >>> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again
> with either an
> >>> internal modulation using another Schmitt
> trigger or with an
> >>> external input.
> >>>
> >>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with
> possible
> >>> switches to allow clock through from the
> external clock
> >>> jacks.
> >>>
> >>> I feel obliged to have an output level control
> because most
> >>> existing modules don't have input level
> controls, except
> >>> maybe some filters that have built in mixers
> (MFOS). This
> >>> brings up another qiestion of a module of
> multiples that
> >>> have attenuators before every out....
> >>>
> >>> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be
> tempted to add a
> >>> filter or two, but as this is intended for a
> modular unit,
> >>> no filter.
> >>>
> >>> How do people feel about it outputting two or
> three
> >>> different waveforms?
> >>>
> >>> As for sound... I have to admit haven't
> breadboarded this
> >>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one
> I did which
> >>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly
> between a few
> >>> of the notes depending on how the clocks were
> set. I'm going
> >>> to try to get this version breadboarded
> sometime next week
> >>> because this week is a little hectic.
> >>>
> >>> -Ian
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
> >>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and
> thus far we
> >>> got:
> >>>>
> >>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output;
> individual
> >>> outs and/or summed staircase out
> >>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can
> work as CV or
> >>> gates
> >>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing
> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>> C with Vactrols
> >>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
> >>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within
> the circuit,
> >>> pending they give dramatically different
> enough outputs
> >>>> -External clock/line in (again, to
> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
> >>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
> >>>>
> >>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a
> rotary switch
> >>> with various cap values on the output. I
> reckon it'd keep
> >>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been
> chugging along
> >>> already) to let an external filter do the
> work.
> >>>>
> >>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some
> interesting
> >>> stuff to be had here:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
> >>>>
> >>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds
> as is too!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _Kyle
> >>>>
> >>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: Colin Hinz
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
> Generator redux
> >>>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26
> PM
> >>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that
> I drew up
> >>> for that
> >>>>> pseudo-random tone
> >>>>>> generator.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> If there's anything anyone can
> think of to add
> >>> to it
> >>>>> feature-wise
> >>>>>> that would make it a decent
> module, I'm open
> >>> to
> >>>>> suggestions.
> >>>>>> (trigger outputs, different
> waveforms,
> >>> multiple voices
> >>>>> in one
> >>>>>> package, etc.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Output level control, with perhaps
> some dumb
> >>> simple
> >>>>> waveshaping or
> >>>>> filtering?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Colin
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>
> >>>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free
> online
> >>> storage.
> >>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > Express your personality in color! Preview and select
> themes for Hotmail?.
> > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      



From richard at skydancer.com  Wed Mar 25 20:58:49 2009
From: richard at skydancer.com (Richard Wentk)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:58:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Tips for writing a MIDI parser wanted
In-Reply-To: <25AC1E82-22D3-4641-970A-49D2A286B41C@t-online.de>
References: <798A4C9A-537E-4F3C-960E-EA54DE225A34@electricdruid.net>
	<6F528730-7FAB-42C7-8CDA-963E14C29717@skydancer.com>
	<1B9D4202-34F2-4EBE-9E42-291FE5A1A860@t-online.de>
	<200903242113.30306.Stromeko@nexgo.de>
	<25AC1E82-22D3-4641-970A-49D2A286B41C@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <F8A61007-AC68-4845-A21E-46F21B73CFAA@skydancer.com>


On 25 Mar 2009, at 18:32, Ingo Debus wrote:

>
> Am 24.03.2009 um 21:13 schrieb ASSI:
>
>> On Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2009, Ingo Debus wrote:
>>> But only if an active sensing msg has been received recently - many
>>> MIDI devices don't send active sensing at all. You'd be shutting
>>> off the notes all the time.
>>
>> The MIDI spec says that active sensing is to be activated if you have
>> been receiving at least one active sense byte and no provision is  
>> made
>> to switch it off based on the reception (or not) of further active
>> sensing events.  You would have to receive a system reset to  
>> revert to
>> default state
>
> You mean, once a active sensing message has been received, notes  
> have always to be shut off when no more active sensings are coming in?
>
> This seems a bit problematic to me. Imagine someone hooks a  
> keyboard that is sending active sensing messages to a synth, then  
> switches to another keyboard (either by hot-plugging or by a MIDI  
> switch) that doesn't. It just wouldn't work. Since most musicians  
> aren't MIDI wizards they surely would think either their synth or  
> their keyboard had gone bad.

No, that's exactly the point. If a MIDI lead is disconnected, all the  
notes turn off to prevent MIDI drone. This makes sense because on  
some keyboards there's literally no way to turn off MIDI drone  
without cycling the power.

MIDI doesn't use hot plugging or switching - most people use a MIDI  
merger box or a thru chain.

And where they do use a switch, there aren't going to be many  
situtations where you're going to want to hold notes after switching.

Obviously this doesn't mean you can't still play notes from the  
keyboard. It's only MIDI notes that are playing which are shut off.

Richard




From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 21:08:41 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:08:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W4832EE0A7A217B279D0110C8900@phx.gbl>
References: <965334.80042.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BAY144-W86FA11784583A03772F34C8900@phx.gbl>
	<BAY141-W2A3F2BB407218B120D2F7F5900@phx.gbl>
	<BAY144-W4832EE0A7A217B279D0110C8900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W19DCB9C30B68E63035B038F5900@phx.gbl>


Dan,

It should be rather simple to put in a number of extra pads that connect to various points of output and probably some input pads as well. I will however let you trace where they go, but they'll be close to what they correspond to. 

I guess this is the time to ask if there should be an area for experimentation on the board like there is on Ray Wilson's SoundLab?

-Ian

----------------------------------------
> From: subjectivity at hotmail.com
> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:07:12 +0000
>
>
>
> well i like your attitude!
>
> hell with my backlog (due to the baby) i dont know which i would get done quicker!
> most likely i will be buying a few from you
>
>
> OH i forgot to put in recommendations though
>
>
> let me do that before you finish
>
> ok...i always thought these were really powerful circuits
> especially when combined with other things
>
> as a pcb they would be really useful as pesudo random gens
>
>
> but i would hate to get a pcb that is only good for taking an out from One place in the circuit
>
> there are many other fine places in the device to take out gates, cv etc
>
> so just make sure to have some pads at different points along the way...PLEASE
>
> they dont even have to be well marked
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
> (updated monthly)
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
> AUDIO ARK:
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:40:27 -0500
>>
>>
>> Damn you and your speedy response Dan!
>>
>> I can do real schematics of both of those and post them as well.
>>
>> As for PCBs... I'm going to do a press&peel of my project for my own futzing to make sure the thing works, but I would probably send out teh design and get real PCBs made... Yellow mask... Black silkscreen... f(form) logo
>>
>> In the spirit of SDIY I'll post the top and bottom traces and silkscreen of the board once I make my own. So you can make your own board or get one from me as you choose.
>>
>> -Ian
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: subjectivity at hotmail.com
>>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:02:45 +0000
>>> CC:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> here is the link to the MIT design
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
>>>
>>> there is a link toward the bottom to an older one as well
>>>
>>> i recorded samples of both at SOME point last year
>>>
>>>
>>> very cool
>>>
>>> but real schematics of both would be great!! or pcbs even better!!!
>>>
>>> will this be PRESs N PEEL? or real boards (either would be very useful)
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> check out various dan music at:
>>>
>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>>
>>> (updated monthly)
>>>
>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>>
>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>>
>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>>
>>> AUDIO ARK:
>>>
>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>>
>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>>
>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's another good idea, having the board in and of itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>>>>
>>>> You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that for you, though the standard square out could be put into an external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.
>>>>
>>>> This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't find the link myself now, but I recall there were two samples on the page for it...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _Kyle
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Ian Smith
>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever people feel
>>>>> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you can include or
>>>>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda wavering on the
>>>>> suboscillator on the output because of the low range
>>>>> switch.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks after
>>>>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks normalized for the
>>>>> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal clocks by
>>>>> plugging into the jack. the question is, would anything work
>>>>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put something in to
>>>>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square wave?
>>>>>
>>>>> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again with either an
>>>>> internal modulation using another Schmitt trigger or with an
>>>>> external input.
>>>>>
>>>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with possible
>>>>> switches to allow clock through from the external clock
>>>>> jacks.
>>>>>
>>>>> I feel obliged to have an output level control because most
>>>>> existing modules don't have input level controls, except
>>>>> maybe some filters that have built in mixers (MFOS). This
>>>>> brings up another qiestion of a module of multiples that
>>>>> have attenuators before every out....
>>>>>
>>>>> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be tempted to add a
>>>>> filter or two, but as this is intended for a modular unit,
>>>>> no filter.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do people feel about it outputting two or three
>>>>> different waveforms?
>>>>>
>>>>> As for sound... I have to admit haven't breadboarded this
>>>>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one I did which
>>>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly between a few
>>>>> of the notes depending on how the clocks were set. I'm going
>>>>> to try to get this version breadboarded sometime next week
>>>>> because this week is a little hectic.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Ian
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and thus far we
>>>>> got:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output; individual
>>>>> outs and/or summed staircase out
>>>>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can work as CV or
>>>>> gates
>>>>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>> C with Vactrols
>>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
>>>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within the circuit,
>>>>> pending they give dramatically different enough outputs
>>>>>> -External clock/line in (again, to Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a rotary switch
>>>>> with various cap values on the output. I reckon it'd keep
>>>>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been chugging along
>>>>> already) to let an external filter do the work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some interesting
>>>>> stuff to be had here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds as is too!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26 PM
>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that I drew up
>>>>> for that
>>>>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>>>>> generator.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If there's anything anyone can think of to add
>>>>> to it
>>>>>>> feature-wise
>>>>>>>> that would make it a decent module, I'm open
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>>> (trigger outputs, different waveforms,
>>>>> multiple voices
>>>>>>> in one
>>>>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Output level control, with perhaps some dumb
>>>>> simple
>>>>>>> waveshaping or
>>>>>>> filtering?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Colin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online
>>>>> storage.
>>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get quick access to your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8.
>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
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From jhaible at debitel.net  Wed Mar 25 21:15:07 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:15:07 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Triple Chorus ("Solina") PCBs re-issue ready for shipping
Message-ID: <39D3AB9EBAE3413D8A2971B6EF2B6ACF@jhsilent>

Hi,

if you have pre-ordered one of these, you should have an invoice in your 
mailbox right now.
(If you haven't, please contact me.)

I have more boards than were pre-ordered. If anybody wants one, please let 
me know.
Project description is here:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/triple_chorus/triple_chorus.html

Best Regards,

JH. 



From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 25 21:16:06 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:16:06 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <934023.3294.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <934023.3294.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W40F2DEDC1D525C3603AB54F5900@phx.gbl>



You got that in one Kyle. I like doing things that don't cost too much and you can get a lot out of. I thought for a few minutes to put something crazy like a 566 in there, but it doesn't fit my way of doing things and there's easier and cheaper ways of getting multiple waveforms.

I'll try and post a revised schematic tomorrow with the updates.

-Ian


> Naw, not too crazy. That was the multi-tap out idea I had. There would just need to be some poking around to see which points would be the most viable. I can't the Boolean algebra yet, but I bet within the circuit there will be two point having either the same/close eniugh not to matter signal, or something equally benign like a simple inversion.
>
> I'm all for PCBs too! I like that the parts herein are pretty cheap, all ICs less than a dollar each (hell, 50 cents even), at surplus prices.
>
>
> _Kyle
>
> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle  wrote:
>
>> From: Dan Snazelle 
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com, lightburnx at yahoo.com, "sdiy" 
>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 12:18 PM
>>
>> in case my last post didnt make sense.,.i would buy a bunch
>> of these if i thought that
>>
>> 1. they had a pad for external clock (and i could worry
>> about whether or not your device could handle my clock)
>> 2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1, q, etc
>> 3, it had some pads out at say ic4 q3, q4,etc
>> 4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or i1d
>>
>> bascially then i could use these pcbs for all kinds of
>> weird duties.
>>
>> i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.
>>
>> and i think the single most powerful aspect of a board like
>> this is how MANY points you can take stuff, useful weird
>> stuff, out of it
>>
>>
>> does this make any sense?
>>
>> maybe this would be too crazy
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> check out various dan music at:
>>
>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>
>> (updated monthly)
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>
>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>
>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>
>> AUDIO ARK:
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
>>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com;
>> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:22:15 -0500
>>> CC:
>>>
>>>
>>> Kyle,
>>>
>>> Yeah, the original is the MIT class project. I trawled
>> through the archive to find the links again.
>>>
>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
>>>
>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
>>>
>>> I'm also going to be posting those links on my web
>> page over at sdiy.org so I won't lose the things again.
>>>
>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
>>>
>>> -Ian
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's another good idea, having the board in and
>> of itself have a degree of modularity. There's potential to
>> cook the random tone gen, some variation on that, or a bend
>> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>>>>
>>>> You'll get more harmonic content with sawtooth
>> (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will do that
>> for you, though the standard square out could be put into an
>> external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your palette.
>>>>
>>>> This is based off an MIT design, right? I can't
>> find the link myself now, but I recall there were two
>> samples on the page for it...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _Kyle
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Ian Smith
>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
>> redux
>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think to keep feature creep down to whatever
>> people feel
>>>>> comfortable with I'll set up the board so you
>> can include or
>>>>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm kinda
>> wavering on the
>>>>> suboscillator on the output because of the low
>> range
>>>>> switch.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking about putting the external clocks
>> after
>>>>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks
>> normalized for the
>>>>> internal clocks so you disconnect the internal
>> clocks by
>>>>> plugging into the jack. the question is, would
>> anything work
>>>>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to put
>> something in to
>>>>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V square
>> wave?
>>>>>
>>>>> Definitely using the transistor VCA, again
>> with either an
>>>>> internal modulation using another Schmitt
>> trigger or with an
>>>>> external input.
>>>>>
>>>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and C) with
>> possible
>>>>> switches to allow clock through from the
>> external clock
>>>>> jacks.
>>>>>
>>>>> I feel obliged to have an output level control
>> because most
>>>>> existing modules don't have input level
>> controls, except
>>>>> maybe some filters that have built in mixers
>> (MFOS). This
>>>>> brings up another qiestion of a module of
>> multiples that
>>>>> have attenuators before every out....
>>>>>
>>>>> If this was a stand alone unit, I would be
>> tempted to add a
>>>>> filter or two, but as this is intended for a
>> modular unit,
>>>>> no filter.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do people feel about it outputting two or
>> three
>>>>> different waveforms?
>>>>>
>>>>> As for sound... I have to admit haven't
>> breadboarded this
>>>>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the last one
>> I did which
>>>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather trilly
>> between a few
>>>>> of the notes depending on how the clocks were
>> set. I'm going
>>>>> to try to get this version breadboarded
>> sometime next week
>>>>> because this week is a little hectic.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Ian
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43 -0700
>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
>> redux
>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been talking to Ian off list, and
>> thus far we
>>>>> got:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the output;
>> individual
>>>>> outs and/or summed staircase out
>>>>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024 can
>> work as CV or
>>>>> gates
>>>>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating existing
>> Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>> C with Vactrols
>>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a transistor VCA
>>>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from within
>> the circuit,
>>>>> pending they give dramatically different
>> enough outputs
>>>>>> -External clock/line in (again, to
>> Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design here:
>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe a
>> rotary switch
>>>>> with various cap values on the output. I
>> reckon it'd keep
>>>>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't been
>> chugging along
>>>>> already) to let an external filter do the
>> work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's some
>> interesting
>>>>> stuff to be had here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast sounds
>> as is too!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
>> Generator redux
>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 9:26
>> PM
>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian Smith
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's a link to a schematic that
>> I drew up
>>>>> for that
>>>>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>>>>> generator.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting! How does it sound?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If there's anything anyone can
>> think of to add
>>>>> to it
>>>>>>> feature-wise
>>>>>>>> that would make it a decent
>> module, I'm open
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>>> (trigger outputs, different
>> waveforms,
>>>>> multiple voices
>>>>>>> in one
>>>>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Output level control, with perhaps
>> some dumb
>>>>> simple
>>>>>>> waveshaping or
>>>>>>> filtering?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Colin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free
>> online
>>>>> storage.
>>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Express your personality in color! Preview and select
>> themes for Hotmail?.
>>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
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From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 21:45:34 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
Message-ID: <48142.62826.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Rock n roll Ian, yay for cheap n quick :)

As for kludging, I'd say if there's room left on the board that's not filled otherwise, a few spare pads shouldn't cost much more, if anything depending on who does the PCB. To keep things open ended, if you to expand, I reckon just buy more PCBs or have a little stripboard on the side.

In brief, keep initial costs down, though have caveats for expansion (and expenses incurred therein) at the behest of the builder.

Maybe just have an extra pad adjacent to to places where you find interesting sounds out of, though as I've said you'll start load the circuit down if you have multiple outputs being used at once; that usually equates to a drop in volume, and the excess current drawn might cook things unpleasantly. LED driver-style transistor buffers ought do it... maybe have the kludge space be oriented for making those

Ken Stone did something like that here:
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsld.html


_Kyle

--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith <taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Ian Smith <taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: "synth diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:16 PM
> 
> 
> You got that in one Kyle. I like doing things that don't
> cost too much and you can get a lot out of. I thought for a
> few minutes to put something crazy like a 566 in there, but
> it doesn't fit my way of doing things and there's easier and
> cheaper ways of getting multiple waveforms.
> 
> I'll try and post a revised schematic tomorrow with the
> updates.
> 
> -Ian
> 
> 
> > Naw, not too crazy. That was the multi-tap out idea I
> had. There would just need to be some poking around to see
> which points would be the most viable. I can't the Boolean
> algebra yet, but I bet within the circuit there will be two
> point having either the same/close eniugh not to matter
> signal, or something equally benign like a simple
> inversion.
> >
> > I'm all for PCBs too! I like that the parts herein are
> pretty cheap, all ICs less than a dollar each (hell, 50
> cents even), at surplus prices.
> >
> >
> > _Kyle
> >
> > --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle? wrote:
> >
> >> From: Dan Snazelle 
> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> >> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com,
> lightburnx at yahoo.com,
> "sdiy" 
> >> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 12:18 PM
> >>
> >> in case my last post didnt make sense.,.i would
> buy a bunch
> >> of these if i thought that
> >>
> >> 1. they had a pad for external clock (and i could
> worry
> >> about whether or not your device could handle my
> clock)
> >> 2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1, q, etc
> >> 3, it had some pads out at say ic4 q3, q4,etc
> >> 4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or i1d
> >>
> >> bascially then i could use these pcbs for all
> kinds of
> >> weird duties.
> >>
> >> i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.
> >>
> >> and i think the single most powerful aspect of a
> board like
> >> this is how MANY points you can take stuff, useful
> weird
> >> stuff, out of it
> >>
> >>
> >> does this make any sense?
> >>
> >> maybe this would be too crazy
> >>
> >> thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------
> >> check out various dan music at:
> >>
> >> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> >>
> >> (updated monthly)
> >>
> >> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> >>
> >> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> >>
> >> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> >>
> >> AUDIO ARK:
> >>
> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> >>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> >>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
> >>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com;
> >> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:22:15 -0500
> >>> CC:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Kyle,
> >>>
> >>> Yeah, the original is the MIT class project. I
> trawled
> >> through the archive to find the links again.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
> >>>
> >>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
> >>>
> >>> I'm also going to be posting those links on my
> web
> >> page over at sdiy.org so I won't lose the things
> again.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
> >>>
> >>> -Ian
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
> >>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> That's another good idea, having the board
> in and
> >> of itself have a degree of modularity. There's
> potential to
> >> cook the random tone gen, some variation on that,
> or a bend
> >> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
> >>>>
> >>>> You'll get more harmonic content with
> sawtooth
> >> (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will
> do that
> >> for you, though the standard square out could be
> put into an
> >> external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your
> palette.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is based off an MIT design, right? I
> can't
> >> find the link myself now, but I recall there were
> two
> >> samples on the page for it...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _Kyle
> >>>>
> >>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: Ian Smith
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
> Generator
> >> redux
> >>>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25
> AM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hey all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think to keep feature creep down to
> whatever
> >> people feel
> >>>>> comfortable with I'll set up the board
> so you
> >> can include or
> >>>>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm
> kinda
> >> wavering on the
> >>>>> suboscillator on the output because of
> the low
> >> range
> >>>>> switch.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm thinking about putting the
> external clocks
> >> after
> >>>>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks
> >> normalized for the
> >>>>> internal clocks so you disconnect the
> internal
> >> clocks by
> >>>>> plugging into the jack. the question
> is, would
> >> anything work
> >>>>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to
> put
> >> something in to
> >>>>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V
> square
> >> wave?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Definitely using the transistor VCA,
> again
> >> with either an
> >>>>> internal modulation using another
> Schmitt
> >> trigger or with an
> >>>>> external input.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and
> C) with
> >> possible
> >>>>> switches to allow clock through from
> the
> >> external clock
> >>>>> jacks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I feel obliged to have an output level
> control
> >> because most
> >>>>> existing modules don't have input
> level
> >> controls, except
> >>>>> maybe some filters that have built in
> mixers
> >> (MFOS). This
> >>>>> brings up another qiestion of a module
> of
> >> multiples that
> >>>>> have attenuators before every out....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If this was a stand alone unit, I
> would be
> >> tempted to add a
> >>>>> filter or two, but as this is intended
> for a
> >> modular unit,
> >>>>> no filter.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How do people feel about it outputting
> two or
> >> three
> >>>>> different waveforms?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As for sound... I have to admit
> haven't
> >> breadboarded this
> >>>>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the
> last one
> >> I did which
> >>>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather
> trilly
> >> between a few
> >>>>> of the notes depending on how the
> clocks were
> >> set. I'm going
> >>>>> to try to get this version
> breadboarded
> >> sometime next week
> >>>>> because this week is a little hectic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Ian
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43
> -0700
> >>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
> Generator
> >> redux
> >>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've been talking to Ian off list,
> and
> >> thus far we
> >>>>> got:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the
> output;
> >> individual
> >>>>> outs and/or summed staircase out
> >>>>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024
> can
> >> work as CV or
> >>>>> gates
> >>>>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating
> existing
> >> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>>>> C with Vactrols
> >>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a
> transistor VCA
> >>>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from
> within
> >> the circuit,
> >>>>> pending they give dramatically
> different
> >> enough outputs
> >>>>>> -External clock/line in (again,
> to
> >> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design
> here:
> >>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe
> a
> >> rotary switch
> >>>>> with various cap values on the output.
> I
> >> reckon it'd keep
> >>>>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't
> been
> >> chugging along
> >>>>> already) to let an external filter do
> the
> >> work.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's
> some
> >> interesting
> >>>>> stuff to be had here:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast
> sounds
> >> as is too!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _Kyle
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
> >>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
> Tone
> >> Generator redux
> >>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009,
> 9:26
> >> PM
> >>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian
> Smith
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Here's a link to a
> schematic that
> >> I drew up
> >>>>> for that
> >>>>>>> pseudo-random tone
> >>>>>>>> generator.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Interesting! How does it
> sound?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If there's anything anyone
> can
> >> think of to add
> >>>>> to it
> >>>>>>> feature-wise
> >>>>>>>> that would make it a
> decent
> >> module, I'm open
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> suggestions.
> >>>>>>>> (trigger outputs,
> different
> >> waveforms,
> >>>>> multiple voices
> >>>>>>> in one
> >>>>>>>> package, etc.)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Output level control, with
> perhaps
> >> some dumb
> >>>>> simple
> >>>>>>> waveshaping or
> >>>>>>> filtering?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Colin
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of
> free
> >> online
> >>>>> storage.
> >>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
> >>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> Express your personality in color! Preview and
> select
> >> themes for Hotmail?.
> >>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
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> >>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 26 01:37:25 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:37:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <48142.62826.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <48142.62826.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W1340578EB8BE5A5279A2F5C8910@phx.gbl>


id love a klude area but only if it makes sense
as far as hooking stuff up to the outputs...if they are on the chip what is the real danger of using them? maybe with a 9v that would be an issue but is the current draw that big of an issue with a 15volt modular psu?


and it would just be nice to HAVE the pads...people could always hook up buffers.



i have never had any chips get warm and i almost always use tons of outs on my 4024s but then again i am usually looking for pretty weird sounds so i like being able to have the options


thanks



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:45:34 -0700
> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
>
> Rock n roll Ian, yay for cheap n quick :)
>
> As for kludging, I'd say if there's room left on the board that's not filled otherwise, a few spare pads shouldn't cost much more, if anything depending on who does the PCB. To keep things open ended, if you to expand, I reckon just buy more PCBs or have a little stripboard on the side.
>
> In brief, keep initial costs down, though have caveats for expansion (and expenses incurred therein) at the behest of the builder.
>
> Maybe just have an extra pad adjacent to to places where you find interesting sounds out of, though as I've said you'll start load the circuit down if you have multiple outputs being used at once; that usually equates to a drop in volume, and the excess current drawn might cook things unpleasantly. LED driver-style transistor buffers ought do it... maybe have the kludge space be oriented for making those
>
> Ken Stone did something like that here:
> http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsld.html
>
>
> _Kyle
>
> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith  wrote:
>
>> From: Ian Smith 
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> To: "synth diy" 
>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:16 PM
>>
>>
>> You got that in one Kyle. I like doing things that don't
>> cost too much and you can get a lot out of. I thought for a
>> few minutes to put something crazy like a 566 in there, but
>> it doesn't fit my way of doing things and there's easier and
>> cheaper ways of getting multiple waveforms.
>>
>> I'll try and post a revised schematic tomorrow with the
>> updates.
>>
>> -Ian
>>
>>
>>> Naw, not too crazy. That was the multi-tap out idea I
>> had. There would just need to be some poking around to see
>> which points would be the most viable. I can't the Boolean
>> algebra yet, but I bet within the circuit there will be two
>> point having either the same/close eniugh not to matter
>> signal, or something equally benign like a simple
>> inversion.
>>>
>>> I'm all for PCBs too! I like that the parts herein are
>> pretty cheap, all ICs less than a dollar each (hell, 50
>> cents even), at surplus prices.
>>>
>>>
>>> _Kyle
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Dan Snazelle
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com,
>> lightburnx at yahoo.com,
>> "sdiy"
>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 12:18 PM
>>>>
>>>> in case my last post didnt make sense.,.i would
>> buy a bunch
>>>> of these if i thought that
>>>>
>>>> 1. they had a pad for external clock (and i could
>> worry
>>>> about whether or not your device could handle my
>> clock)
>>>> 2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1, q, etc
>>>> 3, it had some pads out at say ic4 q3, q4,etc
>>>> 4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or i1d
>>>>
>>>> bascially then i could use these pcbs for all
>> kinds of
>>>> weird duties.
>>>>
>>>> i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.
>>>>
>>>> and i think the single most powerful aspect of a
>> board like
>>>> this is how MANY points you can take stuff, useful
>> weird
>>>> stuff, out of it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> does this make any sense?
>>>>
>>>> maybe this would be too crazy
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>> check out various dan music at:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>>>
>>>> (updated monthly)
>>>>
>>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>>>
>>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>>>
>>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>>>
>>>> AUDIO ARK:
>>>>
>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>>>
>>>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>>>
>>>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
>>>>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com;
>>>> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
>> redux
>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:22:15 -0500
>>>>> CC:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kyle,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, the original is the MIT class project. I
>> trawled
>>>> through the archive to find the links again.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm also going to be posting those links on my
>> web
>>>> page over at sdiy.org so I won't lose the things
>> again.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
>>>>>
>>>>> -Ian
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21 -0700
>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
>> redux
>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's another good idea, having the board
>> in and
>>>> of itself have a degree of modularity. There's
>> potential to
>>>> cook the random tone gen, some variation on that,
>> or a bend
>>>> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'll get more harmonic content with
>> sawtooth
>>>> (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024 waveshaper will
>> do that
>>>> for you, though the standard square out could be
>> put into an
>>>> external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your
>> palette.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is based off an MIT design, right? I
>> can't
>>>> find the link myself now, but I recall there were
>> two
>>>> samples on the page for it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Ian Smith
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
>> Generator
>>>> redux
>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 7:25
>> AM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think to keep feature creep down to
>> whatever
>>>> people feel
>>>>>>> comfortable with I'll set up the board
>> so you
>>>> can include or
>>>>>>> omit ins and outs as you prefer. I'm
>> kinda
>>>> wavering on the
>>>>>>> suboscillator on the output because of
>> the low
>>>> range
>>>>>>> switch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm thinking about putting the
>> external clocks
>>>> after
>>>>>>> Schmitts B and C using switched jacks
>>>> normalized for the
>>>>>>> internal clocks so you disconnect the
>> internal
>>>> clocks by
>>>>>>> plugging into the jack. the question
>> is, would
>>>> anything work
>>>>>>> to clock the 4051s or do I need to
>> put
>>>> something in to
>>>>>>> convert an external signal to a 0/+5V
>> square
>>>> wave?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Definitely using the transistor VCA,
>> again
>>>> with either an
>>>>>>> internal modulation using another
>> Schmitt
>>>> trigger or with an
>>>>>>> external input.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts B and
>> C) with
>>>> possible
>>>>>>> switches to allow clock through from
>> the
>>>> external clock
>>>>>>> jacks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I feel obliged to have an output level
>> control
>>>> because most
>>>>>>> existing modules don't have input
>> level
>>>> controls, except
>>>>>>> maybe some filters that have built in
>> mixers
>>>> (MFOS). This
>>>>>>> brings up another qiestion of a module
>> of
>>>> multiples that
>>>>>>> have attenuators before every out....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If this was a stand alone unit, I
>> would be
>>>> tempted to add a
>>>>>>> filter or two, but as this is intended
>> for a
>>>> modular unit,
>>>>>>> no filter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do people feel about it outputting
>> two or
>>>> three
>>>>>>> different waveforms?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for sound... I have to admit
>> haven't
>>>> breadboarded this
>>>>>>> incarnation of the thing yet, but the
>> last one
>>>> I did which
>>>>>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was rather
>> trilly
>>>> between a few
>>>>>>> of the notes depending on how the
>> clocks were
>>>> set. I'm going
>>>>>>> to try to get this version
>> breadboarded
>>>> sometime next week
>>>>>>> because this week is a little hectic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Ian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:16:43
>> -0700
>>>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
>> Generator
>>>> redux
>>>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been talking to Ian off list,
>> and
>>>> thus far we
>>>>>>> got:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator on the
>> output;
>>>> individual
>>>>>>> outs and/or summed staircase out
>>>>>>>> -The bigger divisions off the 4024
>> can
>>>> work as CV or
>>>>>>> gates
>>>>>>>> -Spare Schmitts modulating
>> existing
>>>> Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>>>> C with Vactrols
>>>>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a
>> transistor VCA
>>>>>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps out from
>> within
>>>> the circuit,
>>>>>>> pending they give dramatically
>> different
>>>> enough outputs
>>>>>>>> -External clock/line in (again,
>> to
>>>> Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX design
>> here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for a dirt simple filter, maybe
>> a
>>>> rotary switch
>>>>>>> with various cap values on the output.
>> I
>>>> reckon it'd keep
>>>>>>> feature creep down (not that it hasn't
>> been
>>>> chugging along
>>>>>>> already) to let an external filter do
>> the
>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And by way of waveshaping, there's
>> some
>>>> interesting
>>>>>>> stuff to be had here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how the beast
>> sounds
>>>> as is too!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin Hinz
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
>> Tone
>>>> Generator redux
>>>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009,
>> 9:26
>>>> PM
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Ian
>> Smith
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here's a link to a
>> schematic that
>>>> I drew up
>>>>>>> for that
>>>>>>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>>>>>>> generator.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Interesting! How does it
>> sound?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If there's anything anyone
>> can
>>>> think of to add
>>>>>>> to it
>>>>>>>>> feature-wise
>>>>>>>>>> that would make it a
>> decent
>>>> module, I'm open
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>>>>> (trigger outputs,
>> different
>>>> waveforms,
>>>>>>> multiple voices
>>>>>>>>> in one
>>>>>>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Output level control, with
>> perhaps
>>>> some dumb
>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>> waveshaping or
>>>>>>>>> filtering?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Colin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of
>> free
>>>> online
>>>>>>> storage.
>>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Express your personality in color! Preview and
>> select
>>>> themes for Hotmail?.
>>>>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really
>> fast.
>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 02:22:27 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:22:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
Message-ID: <869941.23053.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


*shrug* If there's room and it doesn't incur much more if any cost for pads, fill 'er up imo.

If we're talking about unused divider outs on the 4024s, yeah, they're meant for that. But taking a tap from one part of the circuit leading already elsewhere, and you've got a voltage divider (hence the buffer). Think we had some meanings mixed up, heh.


_Kyle
--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 5:37 PM
> 
> id love a klude area but only if it makes sense
> as far as hooking stuff up to the outputs...if they are on
> the chip what is the real danger of using them? maybe with a
> 9v that would be an issue but is the current draw that big
> of an issue with a 15volt modular psu?
> 
> 
> and it would just be nice to HAVE the pads...people could
> always hook up buffers.
> 
> 
> 
> i have never had any chips get warm and i almost always use
> tons of outs on my 4024s but then again i am usually looking
> for pretty weird sounds so i like being able to have the
> options
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:45:34 -0700
> > From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >
> >
> > Rock n roll Ian, yay for cheap n quick :)
> >
> > As for kludging, I'd say if there's room left on the
> board that's not filled otherwise, a few spare pads
> shouldn't cost much more, if anything depending on who does
> the PCB. To keep things open ended, if you to expand, I
> reckon just buy more PCBs or have a little stripboard on the
> side.
> >
> > In brief, keep initial costs down, though have caveats
> for expansion (and expenses incurred therein) at the behest
> of the builder.
> >
> > Maybe just have an extra pad adjacent to to places
> where you find interesting sounds out of, though as I've
> said you'll start load the circuit down if you have multiple
> outputs being used at once; that usually equates to a drop
> in volume, and the excess current drawn might cook things
> unpleasantly. LED driver-style transistor buffers ought do
> it... maybe have the kludge space be oriented for making
> those
> >
> > Ken Stone did something like that here:
> > http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsld.html
> >
> >
> > _Kyle
> >
> > --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith? wrote:
> >
> >> From: Ian Smith 
> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> >> To: "synth diy" 
> >> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:16 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> You got that in one Kyle. I like doing things that
> don't
> >> cost too much and you can get a lot out of. I
> thought for a
> >> few minutes to put something crazy like a 566 in
> there, but
> >> it doesn't fit my way of doing things and there's
> easier and
> >> cheaper ways of getting multiple waveforms.
> >>
> >> I'll try and post a revised schematic tomorrow
> with the
> >> updates.
> >>
> >> -Ian
> >>
> >>
> >>> Naw, not too crazy. That was the multi-tap out
> idea I
> >> had. There would just need to be some poking
> around to see
> >> which points would be the most viable. I can't the
> Boolean
> >> algebra yet, but I bet within the circuit there
> will be two
> >> point having either the same/close eniugh not to
> matter
> >> signal, or something equally benign like a simple
> >> inversion.
> >>>
> >>> I'm all for PCBs too! I like that the parts
> herein are
> >> pretty cheap, all ICs less than a dollar each
> (hell, 50
> >> cents even), at surplus prices.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _Kyle
> >>>
> >>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle?
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From: Dan Snazelle
> >>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>>> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com,
> >> lightburnx at yahoo.com,
> >> "sdiy"
> >>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 12:18 PM
> >>>>
> >>>> in case my last post didnt make sense.,.i
> would
> >> buy a bunch
> >>>> of these if i thought that
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. they had a pad for external clock (and
> i could
> >> worry
> >>>> about whether or not your device could
> handle my
> >> clock)
> >>>> 2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1, q, etc
> >>>> 3, it had some pads out at say ic4 q3,
> q4,etc
> >>>> 4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or i1d
> >>>>
> >>>> bascially then i could use these pcbs for
> all
> >> kinds of
> >>>> weird duties.
> >>>>
> >>>> i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.
> >>>>
> >>>> and i think the single most powerful
> aspect of a
> >> board like
> >>>> this is how MANY points you can take
> stuff, useful
> >> weird
> >>>> stuff, out of it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> does this make any sense?
> >>>>
> >>>> maybe this would be too crazy
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> --------------------------------------------
> >>>> check out various dan music at:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> >>>>
> >>>> (updated monthly)
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> >>>>
> >>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> >>>>
> >>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> >>>>
> >>>> AUDIO ARK:
> >>>>
> >>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
> >>>>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com;
> >>>> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
> Generator
> >> redux
> >>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:22:15 -0500
> >>>>> CC:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kyle,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yeah, the original is the MIT class
> project. I
> >> trawled
> >>>> through the archive to find the links
> again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm also going to be posting those
> links on my
> >> web
> >>>> page over at sdiy.org so I won't lose the
> things
> >> again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Ian
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21
> -0700
> >>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
> Generator
> >> redux
> >>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That's another good idea, having
> the board
> >> in and
> >>>> of itself have a degree of modularity.
> There's
> >> potential to
> >>>> cook the random tone gen, some variation
> on that,
> >> or a bend
> >>>> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You'll get more harmonic content
> with
> >> sawtooth
> >>>> (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024
> waveshaper will
> >> do that
> >>>> for you, though the standard square out
> could be
> >> put into an
> >>>> external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your
> >> palette.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is based off an MIT design,
> right? I
> >> can't
> >>>> find the link myself now, but I recall
> there were
> >> two
> >>>> samples on the page for it...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _Kyle
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: Ian Smith
> >>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
> Tone
> >> Generator
> >>>> redux
> >>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25,
> 2009, 7:25
> >> AM
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hey all,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think to keep feature creep
> down to
> >> whatever
> >>>> people feel
> >>>>>>> comfortable with I'll set up
> the board
> >> so you
> >>>> can include or
> >>>>>>> omit ins and outs as you
> prefer. I'm
> >> kinda
> >>>> wavering on the
> >>>>>>> suboscillator on the output
> because of
> >> the low
> >>>> range
> >>>>>>> switch.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm thinking about putting
> the
> >> external clocks
> >>>> after
> >>>>>>> Schmitts B and C using
> switched jacks
> >>>> normalized for the
> >>>>>>> internal clocks so you
> disconnect the
> >> internal
> >>>> clocks by
> >>>>>>> plugging into the jack. the
> question
> >> is, would
> >>>> anything work
> >>>>>>> to clock the 4051s or do I
> need to
> >> put
> >>>> something in to
> >>>>>>> convert an external signal to
> a 0/+5V
> >> square
> >>>> wave?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Definitely using the
> transistor VCA,
> >> again
> >>>> with either an
> >>>>>>> internal modulation using
> another
> >> Schmitt
> >>>> trigger or with an
> >>>>>>> external input.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts
> B and
> >> C) with
> >>>> possible
> >>>>>>> switches to allow clock
> through from
> >> the
> >>>> external clock
> >>>>>>> jacks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I feel obliged to have an
> output level
> >> control
> >>>> because most
> >>>>>>> existing modules don't have
> input
> >> level
> >>>> controls, except
> >>>>>>> maybe some filters that have
> built in
> >> mixers
> >>>> (MFOS). This
> >>>>>>> brings up another qiestion of
> a module
> >> of
> >>>> multiples that
> >>>>>>> have attenuators before every
> out....
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If this was a stand alone
> unit, I
> >> would be
> >>>> tempted to add a
> >>>>>>> filter or two, but as this is
> intended
> >> for a
> >>>> modular unit,
> >>>>>>> no filter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> How do people feel about it
> outputting
> >> two or
> >>>> three
> >>>>>>> different waveforms?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As for sound... I have to
> admit
> >> haven't
> >>>> breadboarded this
> >>>>>>> incarnation of the thing yet,
> but the
> >> last one
> >>>> I did which
> >>>>>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was
> rather
> >> trilly
> >>>> between a few
> >>>>>>> of the notes depending on how
> the
> >> clocks were
> >>>> set. I'm going
> >>>>>>> to try to get this version
> >> breadboarded
> >>>> sometime next week
> >>>>>>> because this week is a little
> hectic.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Ian
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009
> 22:16:43
> >> -0700
> >>>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
> Tone
> >> Generator
> >>>> redux
> >>>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've been talking to Ian
> off list,
> >> and
> >>>> thus far we
> >>>>>>> got:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator
> on the
> >> output;
> >>>> individual
> >>>>>>> outs and/or summed staircase
> out
> >>>>>>>> -The bigger divisions off
> the 4024
> >> can
> >>>> work as CV or
> >>>>>>> gates
> >>>>>>>> -Spare Schmitts
> modulating
> >> existing
> >>>> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>>>>>> C with Vactrols
> >>>>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a
> >> transistor VCA
> >>>>>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps
> out from
> >> within
> >>>> the circuit,
> >>>>>>> pending they give
> dramatically
> >> different
> >>>> enough outputs
> >>>>>>>> -External clock/line in
> (again,
> >> to
> >>>> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>>>>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX
> design
> >> here:
> >>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As for a dirt simple
> filter, maybe
> >> a
> >>>> rotary switch
> >>>>>>> with various cap values on the
> output.
> >> I
> >>>> reckon it'd keep
> >>>>>>> feature creep down (not that
> it hasn't
> >> been
> >>>> chugging along
> >>>>>>> already) to let an external
> filter do
> >> the
> >>>> work.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And by way of waveshaping,
> there's
> >> some
> >>>> interesting
> >>>>>>> stuff to be had here:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how
> the beast
> >> sounds
> >>>> as is too!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _Kyle
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin
> Hinz
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy]
> Random
> >> Tone
> >>>> Generator redux
> >>>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March
> 24, 2009,
> >> 9:26
> >>>> PM
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009,
> Ian
> >> Smith
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Here's a link to
> a
> >> schematic that
> >>>> I drew up
> >>>>>>> for that
> >>>>>>>>> pseudo-random tone
> >>>>>>>>>> generator.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Interesting! How does
> it
> >> sound?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> If there's
> anything anyone
> >> can
> >>>> think of to add
> >>>>>>> to it
> >>>>>>>>> feature-wise
> >>>>>>>>>> that would make it
> a
> >> decent
> >>>> module, I'm open
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> suggestions.
> >>>>>>>>>> (trigger outputs,
> >> different
> >>>> waveforms,
> >>>>>>> multiple voices
> >>>>>>>>> in one
> >>>>>>>>>> package, etc.)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Output level control,
> with
> >> perhaps
> >>>> some dumb
> >>>>>>> simple
> >>>>>>>>> waveshaping or
> >>>>>>>>> filtering?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> - Colin
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing
> list
> >>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get
> 25 GB of
> >> free
> >>>> online
> >>>>>>> storage.
> >>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> Express your personality in color!
> Preview and
> >> select
> >>>> themes for Hotmail?.
> >>>>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
> >>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news
> travels really
> >> fast.
> >> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      



From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 02:23:41 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:23:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
Message-ID: <952679.40203.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


*shrug* If there's room and it doesn't incur much more if any cost for pads, fill 'er up imo.

If we're talking about unused divider outs on the 4024s, yeah, they're meant for that. But taking a tap from one part of the circuit leading already elsewhere, and you've got a voltage divider (hence the buffer). Think we had some meanings mixed up, heh.


_Kyle
--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 5:37 PM
> 
> id love a klude area but only if it makes sense
> as far as hooking stuff up to the outputs...if they are on
> the chip what is the real danger of using them? maybe with a
> 9v that would be an issue but is the current draw that big
> of an issue with a 15volt modular psu?
> 
> 
> and it would just be nice to HAVE the pads...people could
> always hook up buffers.
> 
> 
> 
> i have never had any chips get warm and i almost always use
> tons of outs on my 4024s but then again i am usually looking
> for pretty weird sounds so i like being able to have the
> options
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:45:34 -0700
> > From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >
> >
> > Rock n roll Ian, yay for cheap n quick :)
> >
> > As for kludging, I'd say if there's room left on the
> board that's not filled otherwise, a few spare pads
> shouldn't cost much more, if anything depending on who does
> the PCB. To keep things open ended, if you to expand, I
> reckon just buy more PCBs or have a little stripboard on the
> side.
> >
> > In brief, keep initial costs down, though have caveats
> for expansion (and expenses incurred therein) at the behest
> of the builder.
> >
> > Maybe just have an extra pad adjacent to to places
> where you find interesting sounds out of, though as I've
> said you'll start load the circuit down if you have multiple
> outputs being used at once; that usually equates to a drop
> in volume, and the excess current drawn might cook things
> unpleasantly. LED driver-style transistor buffers ought do
> it... maybe have the kludge space be oriented for making
> those
> >
> > Ken Stone did something like that here:
> > http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsld.html
> >
> >
> > _Kyle
> >
> > --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith? wrote:
> >
> >> From: Ian Smith 
> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> >> To: "synth diy" 
> >> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:16 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> You got that in one Kyle. I like doing things that
> don't
> >> cost too much and you can get a lot out of. I
> thought for a
> >> few minutes to put something crazy like a 566 in
> there, but
> >> it doesn't fit my way of doing things and there's
> easier and
> >> cheaper ways of getting multiple waveforms.
> >>
> >> I'll try and post a revised schematic tomorrow
> with the
> >> updates.
> >>
> >> -Ian
> >>
> >>
> >>> Naw, not too crazy. That was the multi-tap out
> idea I
> >> had. There would just need to be some poking
> around to see
> >> which points would be the most viable. I can't the
> Boolean
> >> algebra yet, but I bet within the circuit there
> will be two
> >> point having either the same/close eniugh not to
> matter
> >> signal, or something equally benign like a simple
> >> inversion.
> >>>
> >>> I'm all for PCBs too! I like that the parts
> herein are
> >> pretty cheap, all ICs less than a dollar each
> (hell, 50
> >> cents even), at surplus prices.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _Kyle
> >>>
> >>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle?
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From: Dan Snazelle
> >>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>>> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com,
> >> lightburnx at yahoo.com,
> >> "sdiy"
> >>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 12:18 PM
> >>>>
> >>>> in case my last post didnt make sense.,.i
> would
> >> buy a bunch
> >>>> of these if i thought that
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. they had a pad for external clock (and
> i could
> >> worry
> >>>> about whether or not your device could
> handle my
> >> clock)
> >>>> 2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1, q, etc
> >>>> 3, it had some pads out at say ic4 q3,
> q4,etc
> >>>> 4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or i1d
> >>>>
> >>>> bascially then i could use these pcbs for
> all
> >> kinds of
> >>>> weird duties.
> >>>>
> >>>> i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.
> >>>>
> >>>> and i think the single most powerful
> aspect of a
> >> board like
> >>>> this is how MANY points you can take
> stuff, useful
> >> weird
> >>>> stuff, out of it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> does this make any sense?
> >>>>
> >>>> maybe this would be too crazy
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> --------------------------------------------
> >>>> check out various dan music at:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> >>>>
> >>>> (updated monthly)
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> >>>>
> >>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> >>>>
> >>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> >>>>
> >>>> AUDIO ARK:
> >>>>
> >>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
> >>>>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com;
> >>>> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
> Generator
> >> redux
> >>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:22:15 -0500
> >>>>> CC:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kyle,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yeah, the original is the MIT class
> project. I
> >> trawled
> >>>> through the archive to find the links
> again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm also going to be posting those
> links on my
> >> web
> >>>> page over at sdiy.org so I won't lose the
> things
> >> again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Ian
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21
> -0700
> >>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
> Generator
> >> redux
> >>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That's another good idea, having
> the board
> >> in and
> >>>> of itself have a degree of modularity.
> There's
> >> potential to
> >>>> cook the random tone gen, some variation
> on that,
> >> or a bend
> >>>> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You'll get more harmonic content
> with
> >> sawtooth
> >>>> (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024
> waveshaper will
> >> do that
> >>>> for you, though the standard square out
> could be
> >> put into an
> >>>> external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your
> >> palette.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is based off an MIT design,
> right? I
> >> can't
> >>>> find the link myself now, but I recall
> there were
> >> two
> >>>> samples on the page for it...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _Kyle
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: Ian Smith
> >>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
> Tone
> >> Generator
> >>>> redux
> >>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25,
> 2009, 7:25
> >> AM
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hey all,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think to keep feature creep
> down to
> >> whatever
> >>>> people feel
> >>>>>>> comfortable with I'll set up
> the board
> >> so you
> >>>> can include or
> >>>>>>> omit ins and outs as you
> prefer. I'm
> >> kinda
> >>>> wavering on the
> >>>>>>> suboscillator on the output
> because of
> >> the low
> >>>> range
> >>>>>>> switch.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm thinking about putting
> the
> >> external clocks
> >>>> after
> >>>>>>> Schmitts B and C using
> switched jacks
> >>>> normalized for the
> >>>>>>> internal clocks so you
> disconnect the
> >> internal
> >>>> clocks by
> >>>>>>> plugging into the jack. the
> question
> >> is, would
> >>>> anything work
> >>>>>>> to clock the 4051s or do I
> need to
> >> put
> >>>> something in to
> >>>>>>> convert an external signal to
> a 0/+5V
> >> square
> >>>> wave?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Definitely using the
> transistor VCA,
> >> again
> >>>> with either an
> >>>>>>> internal modulation using
> another
> >> Schmitt
> >>>> trigger or with an
> >>>>>>> external input.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts
> B and
> >> C) with
> >>>> possible
> >>>>>>> switches to allow clock
> through from
> >> the
> >>>> external clock
> >>>>>>> jacks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I feel obliged to have an
> output level
> >> control
> >>>> because most
> >>>>>>> existing modules don't have
> input
> >> level
> >>>> controls, except
> >>>>>>> maybe some filters that have
> built in
> >> mixers
> >>>> (MFOS). This
> >>>>>>> brings up another qiestion of
> a module
> >> of
> >>>> multiples that
> >>>>>>> have attenuators before every
> out....
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If this was a stand alone
> unit, I
> >> would be
> >>>> tempted to add a
> >>>>>>> filter or two, but as this is
> intended
> >> for a
> >>>> modular unit,
> >>>>>>> no filter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> How do people feel about it
> outputting
> >> two or
> >>>> three
> >>>>>>> different waveforms?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As for sound... I have to
> admit
> >> haven't
> >>>> breadboarded this
> >>>>>>> incarnation of the thing yet,
> but the
> >> last one
> >>>> I did which
> >>>>>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was
> rather
> >> trilly
> >>>> between a few
> >>>>>>> of the notes depending on how
> the
> >> clocks were
> >>>> set. I'm going
> >>>>>>> to try to get this version
> >> breadboarded
> >>>> sometime next week
> >>>>>>> because this week is a little
> hectic.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Ian
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009
> 22:16:43
> >> -0700
> >>>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
> Tone
> >> Generator
> >>>> redux
> >>>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've been talking to Ian
> off list,
> >> and
> >>>> thus far we
> >>>>>>> got:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator
> on the
> >> output;
> >>>> individual
> >>>>>>> outs and/or summed staircase
> out
> >>>>>>>> -The bigger divisions off
> the 4024
> >> can
> >>>> work as CV or
> >>>>>>> gates
> >>>>>>>> -Spare Schmitts
> modulating
> >> existing
> >>>> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>>>>>> C with Vactrols
> >>>>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a
> >> transistor VCA
> >>>>>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps
> out from
> >> within
> >>>> the circuit,
> >>>>>>> pending they give
> dramatically
> >> different
> >>>> enough outputs
> >>>>>>>> -External clock/line in
> (again,
> >> to
> >>>> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>>>>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX
> design
> >> here:
> >>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As for a dirt simple
> filter, maybe
> >> a
> >>>> rotary switch
> >>>>>>> with various cap values on the
> output.
> >> I
> >>>> reckon it'd keep
> >>>>>>> feature creep down (not that
> it hasn't
> >> been
> >>>> chugging along
> >>>>>>> already) to let an external
> filter do
> >> the
> >>>> work.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And by way of waveshaping,
> there's
> >> some
> >>>> interesting
> >>>>>>> stuff to be had here:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how
> the beast
> >> sounds
> >>>> as is too!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _Kyle
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin
> Hinz
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy]
> Random
> >> Tone
> >>>> Generator redux
> >>>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March
> 24, 2009,
> >> 9:26
> >>>> PM
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009,
> Ian
> >> Smith
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Here's a link to
> a
> >> schematic that
> >>>> I drew up
> >>>>>>> for that
> >>>>>>>>> pseudo-random tone
> >>>>>>>>>> generator.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Interesting! How does
> it
> >> sound?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> If there's
> anything anyone
> >> can
> >>>> think of to add
> >>>>>>> to it
> >>>>>>>>> feature-wise
> >>>>>>>>>> that would make it
> a
> >> decent
> >>>> module, I'm open
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> suggestions.
> >>>>>>>>>> (trigger outputs,
> >> different
> >>>> waveforms,
> >>>>>>> multiple voices
> >>>>>>>>> in one
> >>>>>>>>>> package, etc.)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Output level control,
> with
> >> perhaps
> >>>> some dumb
> >>>>>>> simple
> >>>>>>>>> waveshaping or
> >>>>>>>>> filtering?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> - Colin
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing
> list
> >>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get
> 25 GB of
> >> free
> >>>> online
> >>>>>>> storage.
> >>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> Express your personality in color!
> Preview and
> >> select
> >>>> themes for Hotmail?.
> >>>>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
> >>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news
> travels really
> >> fast.
> >> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 26 04:25:26 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 03:25:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <952679.40203.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <952679.40203.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W56F4AC6BC6B57232DA4924C8910@phx.gbl>


keep in mind i am a guy who loves starving cmos chips and feeding their +V inputs a CV to create sequences ;)

 i add buffers onto outs if i feel they are critical (precision situations) and leave em off if i am just working up some weird beast that it doesnt matter

i suppose i dont mind stuff like loading on non-essential, crazy messed up circuits.
in a case like a vco  i would worry more about buffering. but in my own personal use, 
i send one cmos out to a few places all the time.  and when i played the MIT version of this circuit on the breadboard, i was able to mess with things in all kinds of ways that were to my liking using the same output routed to multiple places. maybe i come from more of a circuit bending or lunetta mentality when it comes to these small cmos circuits.




but i think as long as the user is AWARE that they are risking loading, etc, they can always add buffers if it is a critical situation

if not...well then just see what happens....as long as the pads arent hard to add.

 
in the end it was just my silly opinion anyway.  which tonight is plenty silly
 :)

 thanks!





--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:23:41 -0700
> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
>
> *shrug* If there's room and it doesn't incur much more if any cost for pads, fill 'er up imo.
>
> If we're talking about unused divider outs on the 4024s, yeah, they're meant for that. But taking a tap from one part of the circuit leading already elsewhere, and you've got a voltage divider (hence the buffer). Think we had some meanings mixed up, heh.
>
>
> _Kyle
> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle  wrote:
>
>> From: Dan Snazelle 
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 5:37 PM
>>
>> id love a klude area but only if it makes sense
>> as far as hooking stuff up to the outputs...if they are on
>> the chip what is the real danger of using them? maybe with a
>> 9v that would be an issue but is the current draw that big
>> of an issue with a 15volt modular psu?
>>
>>
>> and it would just be nice to HAVE the pads...people could
>> always hook up buffers.
>>
>>
>>
>> i have never had any chips get warm and i almost always use
>> tons of outs on my 4024s but then again i am usually looking
>> for pretty weird sounds so i like being able to have the
>> options
>>
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> check out various dan music at:
>>
>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>
>> (updated monthly)
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>
>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>
>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>
>> AUDIO ARK:
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:45:34 -0700
>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>
>>>
>>> Rock n roll Ian, yay for cheap n quick :)
>>>
>>> As for kludging, I'd say if there's room left on the
>> board that's not filled otherwise, a few spare pads
>> shouldn't cost much more, if anything depending on who does
>> the PCB. To keep things open ended, if you to expand, I
>> reckon just buy more PCBs or have a little stripboard on the
>> side.
>>>
>>> In brief, keep initial costs down, though have caveats
>> for expansion (and expenses incurred therein) at the behest
>> of the builder.
>>>
>>> Maybe just have an extra pad adjacent to to places
>> where you find interesting sounds out of, though as I've
>> said you'll start load the circuit down if you have multiple
>> outputs being used at once; that usually equates to a drop
>> in volume, and the excess current drawn might cook things
>> unpleasantly. LED driver-style transistor buffers ought do
>> it... maybe have the kludge space be oriented for making
>> those
>>>
>>> Ken Stone did something like that here:
>>> http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsld.html
>>>
>>>
>>> _Kyle
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Ian Smith
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:16 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You got that in one Kyle. I like doing things that
>> don't
>>>> cost too much and you can get a lot out of. I
>> thought for a
>>>> few minutes to put something crazy like a 566 in
>> there, but
>>>> it doesn't fit my way of doing things and there's
>> easier and
>>>> cheaper ways of getting multiple waveforms.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try and post a revised schematic tomorrow
>> with the
>>>> updates.
>>>>
>>>> -Ian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Naw, not too crazy. That was the multi-tap out
>> idea I
>>>> had. There would just need to be some poking
>> around to see
>>>> which points would be the most viable. I can't the
>> Boolean
>>>> algebra yet, but I bet within the circuit there
>> will be two
>>>> point having either the same/close eniugh not to
>> matter
>>>> signal, or something equally benign like a simple
>>>> inversion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm all for PCBs too! I like that the parts
>> herein are
>>>> pretty cheap, all ICs less than a dollar each
>> (hell, 50
>>>> cents even), at surplus prices.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Dan Snazelle
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
>> redux
>>>>>> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com,
>>>> lightburnx at yahoo.com,
>>>> "sdiy"
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 12:18 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in case my last post didnt make sense.,.i
>> would
>>>> buy a bunch
>>>>>> of these if i thought that
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. they had a pad for external clock (and
>> i could
>>>> worry
>>>>>> about whether or not your device could
>> handle my
>>>> clock)
>>>>>> 2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1, q, etc
>>>>>> 3, it had some pads out at say ic4 q3,
>> q4,etc
>>>>>> 4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or i1d
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bascially then i could use these pcbs for
>> all
>>>> kinds of
>>>>>> weird duties.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and i think the single most powerful
>> aspect of a
>>>> board like
>>>>>> this is how MANY points you can take
>> stuff, useful
>>>> weird
>>>>>> stuff, out of it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> does this make any sense?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> maybe this would be too crazy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>> check out various dan music at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (updated monthly)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AUDIO ARK:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
>>>>>>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com;
>>>>>> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
>> Generator
>>>> redux
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:22:15 -0500
>>>>>>> CC:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kyle,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, the original is the MIT class
>> project. I
>>>> trawled
>>>>>> through the archive to find the links
>> again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm also going to be posting those
>> links on my
>>>> web
>>>>>> page over at sdiy.org so I won't lose the
>> things
>>>> again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Ian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:51:21
>> -0700
>>>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
>> Generator
>>>> redux
>>>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's another good idea, having
>> the board
>>>> in and
>>>>>> of itself have a degree of modularity.
>> There's
>>>> potential to
>>>>>> cook the random tone gen, some variation
>> on that,
>>>> or a bend
>>>>>> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You'll get more harmonic content
>> with
>>>> sawtooth
>>>>>> (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024
>> waveshaper will
>>>> do that
>>>>>> for you, though the standard square out
>> could be
>>>> put into an
>>>>>> external VCO's sync, kinda expanding your
>>>> palette.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is based off an MIT design,
>> right? I
>>>> can't
>>>>>> find the link myself now, but I recall
>> there were
>>>> two
>>>>>> samples on the page for it...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Ian Smith
>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
>> Tone
>>>> Generator
>>>>>> redux
>>>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25,
>> 2009, 7:25
>>>> AM
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think to keep feature creep
>> down to
>>>> whatever
>>>>>> people feel
>>>>>>>>> comfortable with I'll set up
>> the board
>>>> so you
>>>>>> can include or
>>>>>>>>> omit ins and outs as you
>> prefer. I'm
>>>> kinda
>>>>>> wavering on the
>>>>>>>>> suboscillator on the output
>> because of
>>>> the low
>>>>>> range
>>>>>>>>> switch.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking about putting
>> the
>>>> external clocks
>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> Schmitts B and C using
>> switched jacks
>>>>>> normalized for the
>>>>>>>>> internal clocks so you
>> disconnect the
>>>> internal
>>>>>> clocks by
>>>>>>>>> plugging into the jack. the
>> question
>>>> is, would
>>>>>> anything work
>>>>>>>>> to clock the 4051s or do I
>> need to
>>>> put
>>>>>> something in to
>>>>>>>>> convert an external signal to
>> a 0/+5V
>>>> square
>>>>>> wave?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Definitely using the
>> transistor VCA,
>>>> again
>>>>>> with either an
>>>>>>>>> internal modulation using
>> another
>>>> Schmitt
>>>>>> trigger or with an
>>>>>>>>> external input.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Outs from the clocks (schmitts
>> B and
>>>> C) with
>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>> switches to allow clock
>> through from
>>>> the
>>>>>> external clock
>>>>>>>>> jacks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I feel obliged to have an
>> output level
>>>> control
>>>>>> because most
>>>>>>>>> existing modules don't have
>> input
>>>> level
>>>>>> controls, except
>>>>>>>>> maybe some filters that have
>> built in
>>>> mixers
>>>>>> (MFOS). This
>>>>>>>>> brings up another qiestion of
>> a module
>>>> of
>>>>>> multiples that
>>>>>>>>> have attenuators before every
>> out....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If this was a stand alone
>> unit, I
>>>> would be
>>>>>> tempted to add a
>>>>>>>>> filter or two, but as this is
>> intended
>>>> for a
>>>>>> modular unit,
>>>>>>>>> no filter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How do people feel about it
>> outputting
>>>> two or
>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>> different waveforms?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for sound... I have to
>> admit
>>>> haven't
>>>>>> breadboarded this
>>>>>>>>> incarnation of the thing yet,
>> but the
>>>> last one
>>>>>> I did which
>>>>>>>>> had 4020s instead of 4024s was
>> rather
>>>> trilly
>>>>>> between a few
>>>>>>>>> of the notes depending on how
>> the
>>>> clocks were
>>>>>> set. I'm going
>>>>>>>>> to try to get this version
>>>> breadboarded
>>>>>> sometime next week
>>>>>>>>> because this week is a little
>> hectic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Ian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009
>> 22:16:43
>>>> -0700
>>>>>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
>> Tone
>>>> Generator
>>>>>> redux
>>>>>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've been talking to Ian
>> off list,
>>>> and
>>>>>> thus far we
>>>>>>>>> got:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -4024 as a suboscillator
>> on the
>>>> output;
>>>>>> individual
>>>>>>>>> outs and/or summed staircase
>> out
>>>>>>>>>> -The bigger divisions off
>> the 4024
>>>> can
>>>>>> work as CV or
>>>>>>>>> gates
>>>>>>>>>> -Spare Schmitts
>> modulating
>>>> existing
>>>>>> Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>>>>>> C with Vactrols
>>>>>>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks, like a
>>>> transistor VCA
>>>>>>>>>> -Multiple, buffered taps
>> out from
>>>> within
>>>>>> the circuit,
>>>>>>>>> pending they give
>> dramatically
>>>> different
>>>>>> enough outputs
>>>>>>>>>> -External clock/line in
>> (again,
>>>> to
>>>>>> Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>>>>>> C), not unlike this guitar FX
>> design
>>>> here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for a dirt simple
>> filter, maybe
>>>> a
>>>>>> rotary switch
>>>>>>>>> with various cap values on the
>> output.
>>>> I
>>>>>> reckon it'd keep
>>>>>>>>> feature creep down (not that
>> it hasn't
>>>> been
>>>>>> chugging along
>>>>>>>>> already) to let an external
>> filter do
>>>> the
>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And by way of waveshaping,
>> there's
>>>> some
>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>>> stuff to be had here:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, I'm curious how
>> the beast
>>>> sounds
>>>>>> as is too!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Colin
>> Hinz
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Colin Hinz
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy]
>> Random
>>>> Tone
>>>>>> Generator redux
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, March
>> 24, 2009,
>>>> 9:26
>>>>>> PM
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009,
>> Ian
>>>> Smith
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's a link to
>> a
>>>> schematic that
>>>>>> I drew up
>>>>>>>>> for that
>>>>>>>>>>> pseudo-random tone
>>>>>>>>>>>> generator.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting! How does
>> it
>>>> sound?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If there's
>> anything anyone
>>>> can
>>>>>> think of to add
>>>>>>>>> to it
>>>>>>>>>>> feature-wise
>>>>>>>>>>>> that would make it
>> a
>>>> decent
>>>>>> module, I'm open
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>>>>>>> (trigger outputs,
>>>> different
>>>>>> waveforms,
>>>>>>>>> multiple voices
>>>>>>>>>>> in one
>>>>>>>>>>>> package, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Output level control,
>> with
>>>> perhaps
>>>>>> some dumb
>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>> waveshaping or
>>>>>>>>>>> filtering?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Colin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get
>> 25 GB of
>>>> free
>>>>>> online
>>>>>>>>> storage.
>>>>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Express your personality in color!
>> Preview and
>>>> select
>>>>>> themes for Hotmail?.
>>>>>>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>>> fast.
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>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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From lightburnx at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 04:51:03 2009
From: lightburnx at yahoo.com (Kyle Stephens)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
Message-ID: <696155.53517.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Mm, starve controls are awesome. And I'll take your word on being able to branch outputs on the CMOS chips.

In any event, I'm looking forward to Ian's build later in the week, though seeing as I have break this week, I might beat him to it ;)


_Kyle

--- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com, "sdiy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 8:25 PM
> 
> keep in mind i am a guy who loves starving cmos chips and
> feeding their +V inputs a CV to create sequences ;)
> 
>  i add buffers onto outs if i feel they are critical
> (precision situations) and leave em off if i am just working
> up some weird beast that it doesnt matter
> 
> i suppose i dont mind stuff like loading on non-essential,
> crazy messed up circuits.
> in a case like a vco? i would worry more about
> buffering. but in my own personal use, 
> i send one cmos out to a few places all the time.? and
> when i played the MIT version of this circuit on the
> breadboard, i was able to mess with things in all kinds of
> ways that were to my liking using the same output routed to
> multiple places. maybe i come from more of a circuit bending
> or lunetta mentality when it comes to these small cmos
> circuits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but i think as long as the user is AWARE that they are
> risking loading, etc, they can always add buffers if it is a
> critical situation
> 
> if not...well then just see what happens....as long as the
> pads arent hard to add.
> 
>  
> in the end it was just my silly opinion anyway.? which
> tonight is plenty silly
>  :)
> 
>  thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
> 
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> 
> (updated monthly)
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> 
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> 
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> 
> AUDIO ARK:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:23:41 -0700
> > From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> > Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >
> >
> > *shrug* If there's room and it doesn't incur much more
> if any cost for pads, fill 'er up imo.
> >
> > If we're talking about unused divider outs on the
> 4024s, yeah, they're meant for that. But taking a tap from
> one part of the circuit leading already elsewhere, and
> you've got a voltage divider (hence the buffer). Think we
> had some meanings mixed up, heh.
> >
> >
> > _Kyle
> > --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle? wrote:
> >
> >> From: Dan Snazelle 
> >> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> >> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com,
> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 5:37 PM
> >>
> >> id love a klude area but only if it makes sense
> >> as far as hooking stuff up to the outputs...if
> they are on
> >> the chip what is the real danger of using them?
> maybe with a
> >> 9v that would be an issue but is the current draw
> that big
> >> of an issue with a 15volt modular psu?
> >>
> >>
> >> and it would just be nice to HAVE the
> pads...people could
> >> always hook up buffers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> i have never had any chips get warm and i almost
> always use
> >> tons of outs on my 4024s but then again i am
> usually looking
> >> for pretty weird sounds so i like being able to
> have the
> >> options
> >>
> >>
> >> thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------
> >> check out various dan music at:
> >>
> >> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> >>
> >> (updated monthly)
> >>
> >> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> >>
> >> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> >>
> >> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
> >>
> >> AUDIO ARK:
> >>
> >> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> >>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> >>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:45:34 -0700
> >>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Rock n roll Ian, yay for cheap n quick :)
> >>>
> >>> As for kludging, I'd say if there's room left
> on the
> >> board that's not filled otherwise, a few spare
> pads
> >> shouldn't cost much more, if anything depending on
> who does
> >> the PCB. To keep things open ended, if you to
> expand, I
> >> reckon just buy more PCBs or have a little
> stripboard on the
> >> side.
> >>>
> >>> In brief, keep initial costs down, though have
> caveats
> >> for expansion (and expenses incurred therein) at
> the behest
> >> of the builder.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe just have an extra pad adjacent to to
> places
> >> where you find interesting sounds out of, though
> as I've
> >> said you'll start load the circuit down if you
> have multiple
> >> outputs being used at once; that usually equates
> to a drop
> >> in volume, and the excess current drawn might cook
> things
> >> unpleasantly. LED driver-style transistor buffers
> ought do
> >> it... maybe have the kludge space be oriented for
> making
> >> those
> >>>
> >>> Ken Stone did something like that here:
> >>> http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsld.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _Kyle
> >>>
> >>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith? wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From: Ian Smith
> >>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
> redux
> >>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:16 PM
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You got that in one Kyle. I like doing
> things that
> >> don't
> >>>> cost too much and you can get a lot out
> of. I
> >> thought for a
> >>>> few minutes to put something crazy like a
> 566 in
> >> there, but
> >>>> it doesn't fit my way of doing things and
> there's
> >> easier and
> >>>> cheaper ways of getting multiple
> waveforms.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll try and post a revised schematic
> tomorrow
> >> with the
> >>>> updates.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Ian
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Naw, not too crazy. That was the
> multi-tap out
> >> idea I
> >>>> had. There would just need to be some
> poking
> >> around to see
> >>>> which points would be the most viable. I
> can't the
> >> Boolean
> >>>> algebra yet, but I bet within the circuit
> there
> >> will be two
> >>>> point having either the same/close eniugh
> not to
> >> matter
> >>>> signal, or something equally benign like a
> simple
> >>>> inversion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm all for PCBs too! I like that the
> parts
> >> herein are
> >>>> pretty cheap, all ICs less than a dollar
> each
> >> (hell, 50
> >>>> cents even), at surplus prices.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _Kyle
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Dan Snazelle
> >>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
> Generator
> >> redux
> >>>>>> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com,
> >>>> lightburnx at yahoo.com,
> >>>> "sdiy"
> >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009,
> 12:18 PM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> in case my last post didnt make
> sense.,.i
> >> would
> >>>> buy a bunch
> >>>>>> of these if i thought that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1. they had a pad for external
> clock (and
> >> i could
> >>>> worry
> >>>>>> about whether or not your device
> could
> >> handle my
> >>>> clock)
> >>>>>> 2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1,
> q, etc
> >>>>>> 3, it had some pads out at say ic4
> q3,
> >> q4,etc
> >>>>>> 4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or
> i1d
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> bascially then i could use these
> pcbs for
> >> all
> >>>> kinds of
> >>>>>> weird duties.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> and i think the single most
> powerful
> >> aspect of a
> >>>> board like
> >>>>>> this is how MANY points you can
> take
> >> stuff, useful
> >>>> weird
> >>>>>> stuff, out of it
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> does this make any sense?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> maybe this would be too crazy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> thanks
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> --------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> check out various dan music at:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (updated monthly)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx
> projects:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> AUDIO ARK:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
> >>>>>>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com;
> >>>>>> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
> Tone
> >> Generator
> >>>> redux
> >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009
> 13:22:15 -0500
> >>>>>>> CC:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Kyle,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yeah, the original is the MIT
> class
> >> project. I
> >>>> trawled
> >>>>>> through the archive to find the
> links
> >> again.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm also going to be posting
> those
> >> links on my
> >>>> web
> >>>>>> page over at sdiy.org so I won't
> lose the
> >> things
> >>>> again.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Ian
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009
> 09:51:21
> >> -0700
> >>>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
> Tone
> >> Generator
> >>>> redux
> >>>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That's another good idea,
> having
> >> the board
> >>>> in and
> >>>>>> of itself have a degree of
> modularity.
> >> There's
> >>>> potential to
> >>>>>> cook the random tone gen, some
> variation
> >> on that,
> >>>> or a bend
> >>>>>> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You'll get more harmonic
> content
> >> with
> >>>> sawtooth
> >>>>>> (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024
> >> waveshaper will
> >>>> do that
> >>>>>> for you, though the standard
> square out
> >> could be
> >>>> put into an
> >>>>>> external VCO's sync, kinda
> expanding your
> >>>> palette.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This is based off an MIT
> design,
> >> right? I
> >>>> can't
> >>>>>> find the link myself now, but I
> recall
> >> there were
> >>>> two
> >>>>>> samples on the page for it...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _Kyle
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian
> Smith
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> From: Ian Smith
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy]
> Random
> >> Tone
> >>>> Generator
> >>>>>> redux
> >>>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March
> 25,
> >> 2009, 7:25
> >>>> AM
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hey all,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I think to keep
> feature creep
> >> down to
> >>>> whatever
> >>>>>> people feel
> >>>>>>>>> comfortable with I'll
> set up
> >> the board
> >>>> so you
> >>>>>> can include or
> >>>>>>>>> omit ins and outs as
> you
> >> prefer. I'm
> >>>> kinda
> >>>>>> wavering on the
> >>>>>>>>> suboscillator on the
> output
> >> because of
> >>>> the low
> >>>>>> range
> >>>>>>>>> switch.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm thinking about
> putting
> >> the
> >>>> external clocks
> >>>>>> after
> >>>>>>>>> Schmitts B and C
> using
> >> switched jacks
> >>>>>> normalized for the
> >>>>>>>>> internal clocks so
> you
> >> disconnect the
> >>>> internal
> >>>>>> clocks by
> >>>>>>>>> plugging into the
> jack. the
> >> question
> >>>> is, would
> >>>>>> anything work
> >>>>>>>>> to clock the 4051s or
> do I
> >> need to
> >>>> put
> >>>>>> something in to
> >>>>>>>>> convert an external
> signal to
> >> a 0/+5V
> >>>> square
> >>>>>> wave?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Definitely using the
> >> transistor VCA,
> >>>> again
> >>>>>> with either an
> >>>>>>>>> internal modulation
> using
> >> another
> >>>> Schmitt
> >>>>>> trigger or with an
> >>>>>>>>> external input.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Outs from the clocks
> (schmitts
> >> B and
> >>>> C) with
> >>>>>> possible
> >>>>>>>>> switches to allow
> clock
> >> through from
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> external clock
> >>>>>>>>> jacks.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I feel obliged to have
> an
> >> output level
> >>>> control
> >>>>>> because most
> >>>>>>>>> existing modules don't
> have
> >> input
> >>>> level
> >>>>>> controls, except
> >>>>>>>>> maybe some filters
> that have
> >> built in
> >>>> mixers
> >>>>>> (MFOS). This
> >>>>>>>>> brings up another
> qiestion of
> >> a module
> >>>> of
> >>>>>> multiples that
> >>>>>>>>> have attenuators
> before every
> >> out....
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> If this was a stand
> alone
> >> unit, I
> >>>> would be
> >>>>>> tempted to add a
> >>>>>>>>> filter or two, but as
> this is
> >> intended
> >>>> for a
> >>>>>> modular unit,
> >>>>>>>>> no filter.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> How do people feel
> about it
> >> outputting
> >>>> two or
> >>>>>> three
> >>>>>>>>> different waveforms?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As for sound... I have
> to
> >> admit
> >>>> haven't
> >>>>>> breadboarded this
> >>>>>>>>> incarnation of the
> thing yet,
> >> but the
> >>>> last one
> >>>>>> I did which
> >>>>>>>>> had 4020s instead of
> 4024s was
> >> rather
> >>>> trilly
> >>>>>> between a few
> >>>>>>>>> of the notes depending
> on how
> >> the
> >>>> clocks were
> >>>>>> set. I'm going
> >>>>>>>>> to try to get this
> version
> >>>> breadboarded
> >>>>>> sometime next week
> >>>>>>>>> because this week is a
> little
> >> hectic.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -Ian
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar
> 2009
> >> 22:16:43
> >>>> -0700
> >>>>>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE:
> [sdiy] Random
> >> Tone
> >>>> Generator
> >>>>>> redux
> >>>>>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I've been talking
> to Ian
> >> off list,
> >>>> and
> >>>>>> thus far we
> >>>>>>>>> got:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -4024 as a
> suboscillator
> >> on the
> >>>> output;
> >>>>>> individual
> >>>>>>>>> outs and/or summed
> staircase
> >> out
> >>>>>>>>>> -The bigger
> divisions off
> >> the 4024
> >>>> can
> >>>>>> work as CV or
> >>>>>>>>> gates
> >>>>>>>>>> -Spare Schmitts
> >> modulating
> >>>> existing
> >>>>>> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>>>>>>>> C with Vactrols
> >>>>>>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks,
> like a
> >>>> transistor VCA
> >>>>>>>>>> -Multiple,
> buffered taps
> >> out from
> >>>> within
> >>>>>> the circuit,
> >>>>>>>>> pending they give
> >> dramatically
> >>>> different
> >>>>>> enough outputs
> >>>>>>>>>> -External
> clock/line in
> >> (again,
> >>>> to
> >>>>>> Schmitts A, B, or
> >>>>>>>>> C), not unlike this
> guitar FX
> >> design
> >>>> here:
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> As for a dirt
> simple
> >> filter, maybe
> >>>> a
> >>>>>> rotary switch
> >>>>>>>>> with various cap
> values on the
> >> output.
> >>>> I
> >>>>>> reckon it'd keep
> >>>>>>>>> feature creep down
> (not that
> >> it hasn't
> >>>> been
> >>>>>> chugging along
> >>>>>>>>> already) to let an
> external
> >> filter do
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> work.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> And by way of
> waveshaping,
> >> there's
> >>>> some
> >>>>>> interesting
> >>>>>>>>> stuff to be had here:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Indeed, I'm
> curious how
> >> the beast
> >>>> sounds
> >>>>>> as is too!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _Kyle
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --- On Tue,
> 3/24/09, Colin
> >> Hinz
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Colin
> Hinz
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE:
> [sdiy]
> >> Random
> >>>> Tone
> >>>>>> Generator redux
> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "synth
> diy"
> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday,
> March
> >> 24, 2009,
> >>>> 9:26
> >>>>>> PM
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar
> 2009,
> >> Ian
> >>>> Smith
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Here's a
> link to
> >> a
> >>>> schematic that
> >>>>>> I drew up
> >>>>>>>>> for that
> >>>>>>>>>>> pseudo-random
> tone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> generator.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Interesting!
> How does
> >> it
> >>>> sound?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> If
> there's
> >> anything anyone
> >>>> can
> >>>>>> think of to add
> >>>>>>>>> to it
> >>>>>>>>>>> feature-wise
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that would
> make it
> >> a
> >>>> decent
> >>>>>> module, I'm open
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> suggestions.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (trigger
> outputs,
> >>>> different
> >>>>>> waveforms,
> >>>>>>>>> multiple voices
> >>>>>>>>>>> in one
> >>>>>>>>>>>> package,
> etc.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Output level
> control,
> >> with
> >>>> perhaps
> >>>>>> some dumb
> >>>>>>>>> simple
> >>>>>>>>>>> waveshaping
> or
> >>>>>>>>>>> filtering?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> - Colin
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy
> mailing
> >> list
> >>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing
> list
> >>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Windows Live?
> SkyDrive: Get
> >> 25 GB of
> >>>> free
> >>>>>> online
> >>>>>>>>> storage.
> >>>>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing
> list
> >>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Express your personality in
> color!
> >> Preview and
> >>>> select
> >>>>>> themes for Hotmail?.
> >>>>>>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good
> news
> >> travels really
> >>>> fast.
> >>>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


      



From asfi at eol.ca  Thu Mar 26 04:55:43 2009
From: asfi at eol.ca (Colin Hinz)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:55:43 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090325024911.00c2f388@pop.att.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090325024911.00c2f388@pop.att.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903252354140.548@p4-1>

On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, db wrote:

> I guess I've now been convinced to do it. :)
>
> Am I correct in that it just needs a .1uf  from 5v to gnd?

That should do it. Close to the regulator pins too, naturally enough.

- Colin



From asfi at eol.ca  Thu Mar 26 05:30:33 2009
From: asfi at eol.ca (Colin Hinz)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:30:33 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [sdiy] electronics library or obsession?
In-Reply-To: <0KGZ00FAJ7MKX4@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KGZ00FAJ7MKX4@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903252355560.548@p4-1>

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, David G. Dixon wrote:

> Seeing Dan's book stash has reminded me of something.  I was at a used
> bookstore in little Jackson, California last week, and found a brilliant
> little book:
>
> Active-Filter Cookbook, by Dan Lancaster.
>
> I have been checking out and reading many "university-level" books on
> filters from UBC library, trying to make sense of this whole filter issue,
> and while they all have their merits, none of them even mentions
> voltage-controlled filters.  The Lancaster book has a whole section on VCFs,
> and even shows exactly how to hook up an OTA to control a state-variable
> filter (and why).  Heck, he even has a couple of pictures from the old PAiA
> catalog!  The book is also a whole lot more straightforward regarding the
> mathematics behind filters.  Really, unless one is majoring in EE, this
> brilliant little book is all one needs to understand and design active
> filters.  All the other books are going straight back to the library!

Yup, that one's a classic.

I'd also recommend checking out another of the SAMS books, IC OP-AMP
COOKBOOK, by Walter G. Jung. If you're buying a copy, be aware of the
advisory on Jung's website:

http://www.waltjung.org/Walts_Books.html

- Colin



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 26 05:30:41 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 04:30:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <696155.53517.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <696155.53517.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W205833640C0B7468314E8DC8910@phx.gbl>


i am so glad you are excited as me!





--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:51:03 -0700
> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
>
> Mm, starve controls are awesome. And I'll take your word on being able to branch outputs on the CMOS chips.
>
> In any event, I'm looking forward to Ian's build later in the week, though seeing as I have break this week, I might beat him to it ;)
>
>
> _Kyle
>
> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle  wrote:
>
>> From: Dan Snazelle 
>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com, "sdiy" 
>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 8:25 PM
>>
>> keep in mind i am a guy who loves starving cmos chips and
>> feeding their +V inputs a CV to create sequences ;)
>>
>> i add buffers onto outs if i feel they are critical
>> (precision situations) and leave em off if i am just working
>> up some weird beast that it doesnt matter
>>
>> i suppose i dont mind stuff like loading on non-essential,
>> crazy messed up circuits.
>> in a case like a vco  i would worry more about
>> buffering. but in my own personal use,
>> i send one cmos out to a few places all the time.  and
>> when i played the MIT version of this circuit on the
>> breadboard, i was able to mess with things in all kinds of
>> ways that were to my liking using the same output routed to
>> multiple places. maybe i come from more of a circuit bending
>> or lunetta mentality when it comes to these small cmos
>> circuits.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> but i think as long as the user is AWARE that they are
>> risking loading, etc, they can always add buffers if it is a
>> critical situation
>>
>> if not...well then just see what happens....as long as the
>> pads arent hard to add.
>>
>>
>> in the end it was just my silly opinion anyway.  which
>> tonight is plenty silly
>> :)
>>
>> thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> check out various dan music at:
>>
>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>
>> (updated monthly)
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>
>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>
>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>
>> AUDIO ARK:
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:23:41 -0700
>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>
>>>
>>> *shrug* If there's room and it doesn't incur much more
>> if any cost for pads, fill 'er up imo.
>>>
>>> If we're talking about unused divider outs on the
>> 4024s, yeah, they're meant for that. But taking a tap from
>> one part of the circuit leading already elsewhere, and
>> you've got a voltage divider (hence the buffer). Think we
>> had some meanings mixed up, heh.
>>>
>>>
>>> _Kyle
>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Dan Snazelle
>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
>>>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com,
>> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 5:37 PM
>>>>
>>>> id love a klude area but only if it makes sense
>>>> as far as hooking stuff up to the outputs...if
>> they are on
>>>> the chip what is the real danger of using them?
>> maybe with a
>>>> 9v that would be an issue but is the current draw
>> that big
>>>> of an issue with a 15volt modular psu?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and it would just be nice to HAVE the
>> pads...people could
>>>> always hook up buffers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i have never had any chips get warm and i almost
>> always use
>>>> tons of outs on my 4024s but then again i am
>> usually looking
>>>> for pretty weird sounds so i like being able to
>> have the
>>>> options
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>> check out various dan music at:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>>>
>>>> (updated monthly)
>>>>
>>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>>>
>>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>>>
>>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>>>
>>>> AUDIO ARK:
>>>>
>>>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>>>
>>>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>>>
>>>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:45:34 -0700
>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
>> redux
>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rock n roll Ian, yay for cheap n quick :)
>>>>>
>>>>> As for kludging, I'd say if there's room left
>> on the
>>>> board that's not filled otherwise, a few spare
>> pads
>>>> shouldn't cost much more, if anything depending on
>> who does
>>>> the PCB. To keep things open ended, if you to
>> expand, I
>>>> reckon just buy more PCBs or have a little
>> stripboard on the
>>>> side.
>>>>>
>>>>> In brief, keep initial costs down, though have
>> caveats
>>>> for expansion (and expenses incurred therein) at
>> the behest
>>>> of the builder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe just have an extra pad adjacent to to
>> places
>>>> where you find interesting sounds out of, though
>> as I've
>>>> said you'll start load the circuit down if you
>> have multiple
>>>> outputs being used at once; that usually equates
>> to a drop
>>>> in volume, and the excess current drawn might cook
>> things
>>>> unpleasantly. LED driver-style transistor buffers
>> ought do
>>>> it... maybe have the kludge space be oriented for
>> making
>>>> those
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken Stone did something like that here:
>>>>> http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsld.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian Smith  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Ian Smith
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator
>> redux
>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 1:16 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You got that in one Kyle. I like doing
>> things that
>>>> don't
>>>>>> cost too much and you can get a lot out
>> of. I
>>>> thought for a
>>>>>> few minutes to put something crazy like a
>> 566 in
>>>> there, but
>>>>>> it doesn't fit my way of doing things and
>> there's
>>>> easier and
>>>>>> cheaper ways of getting multiple
>> waveforms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll try and post a revised schematic
>> tomorrow
>>>> with the
>>>>>> updates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Ian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Naw, not too crazy. That was the
>> multi-tap out
>>>> idea I
>>>>>> had. There would just need to be some
>> poking
>>>> around to see
>>>>>> which points would be the most viable. I
>> can't the
>>>> Boolean
>>>>>> algebra yet, but I bet within the circuit
>> there
>>>> will be two
>>>>>> point having either the same/close eniugh
>> not to
>>>> matter
>>>>>> signal, or something equally benign like a
>> simple
>>>>>> inversion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm all for PCBs too! I like that the
>> parts
>>>> herein are
>>>>>> pretty cheap, all ICs less than a dollar
>> each
>>>> (hell, 50
>>>>>> cents even), at surplus prices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Dan Snazelle
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Dan Snazelle
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random Tone
>> Generator
>>>> redux
>>>>>>>> To: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com,
>>>>>> lightburnx at yahoo.com,
>>>>>> "sdiy"
>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009,
>> 12:18 PM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in case my last post didnt make
>> sense.,.i
>>>> would
>>>>>> buy a bunch
>>>>>>>> of these if i thought that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. they had a pad for external
>> clock (and
>>>> i could
>>>>>> worry
>>>>>>>> about whether or not your device
>> could
>>>> handle my
>>>>>> clock)
>>>>>>>> 2. it had pads at IC2 out say q1,
>> q, etc
>>>>>>>> 3, it had some pads out at say ic4
>> q3,
>>>> q4,etc
>>>>>>>> 4. it had a pad out at ic6a, or
>> i1d
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bascially then i could use these
>> pcbs for
>>>> all
>>>>>> kinds of
>>>>>>>> weird duties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i use 4024s with 4051's a lot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and i think the single most
>> powerful
>>>> aspect of a
>>>>>> board like
>>>>>>>> this is how MANY points you can
>> take
>>>> stuff, useful
>>>>>> weird
>>>>>>>> stuff, out of it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> does this make any sense?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> maybe this would be too crazy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> check out various dan music at:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (updated monthly)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx
>> projects:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AUDIO ARK:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>> To: lightburnx at yahoo.com;
>>>>>>>> synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
>> Tone
>>>> Generator
>>>>>> redux
>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009
>> 13:22:15 -0500
>>>>>>>>> CC:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kyle,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, the original is the MIT
>> class
>>>> project. I
>>>>>> trawled
>>>>>>>> through the archive to find the
>> links
>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/old_assignment.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/pedagogy/fab/electronics/assignment.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm also going to be posting
>> those
>>>> links on my
>>>>>> web
>>>>>>>> page over at sdiy.org so I won't
>> lose the
>>>> things
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Ian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009
>> 09:51:21
>>>> -0700
>>>>>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Random
>> Tone
>>>> Generator
>>>>>> redux
>>>>>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's another good idea,
>> having
>>>> the board
>>>>>> in and
>>>>>>>> of itself have a degree of
>> modularity.
>>>> There's
>>>>>> potential to
>>>>>>>> cook the random tone gen, some
>> variation
>>>> on that,
>>>>>> or a bend
>>>>>>>> matrix... lot's of possibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You'll get more harmonic
>> content
>>>> with
>>>>>> sawtooth
>>>>>>>> (teeth? heh) waves. The 4046/4024
>>>> waveshaper will
>>>>>> do that
>>>>>>>> for you, though the standard
>> square out
>>>> could be
>>>>>> put into an
>>>>>>>> external VCO's sync, kinda
>> expanding your
>>>>>> palette.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is based off an MIT
>> design,
>>>> right? I
>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>> find the link myself now, but I
>> recall
>>>> there were
>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>> samples on the page for it...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, Ian
>> Smith
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Ian Smith
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [sdiy]
>> Random
>>>> Tone
>>>>>> Generator
>>>>>>>> redux
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "synth diy"
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March
>> 25,
>>>> 2009, 7:25
>>>>>> AM
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think to keep
>> feature creep
>>>> down to
>>>>>> whatever
>>>>>>>> people feel
>>>>>>>>>>> comfortable with I'll
>> set up
>>>> the board
>>>>>> so you
>>>>>>>> can include or
>>>>>>>>>>> omit ins and outs as
>> you
>>>> prefer. I'm
>>>>>> kinda
>>>>>>>> wavering on the
>>>>>>>>>>> suboscillator on the
>> output
>>>> because of
>>>>>> the low
>>>>>>>> range
>>>>>>>>>>> switch.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking about
>> putting
>>>> the
>>>>>> external clocks
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>> Schmitts B and C
>> using
>>>> switched jacks
>>>>>>>> normalized for the
>>>>>>>>>>> internal clocks so
>> you
>>>> disconnect the
>>>>>> internal
>>>>>>>> clocks by
>>>>>>>>>>> plugging into the
>> jack. the
>>>> question
>>>>>> is, would
>>>>>>>> anything work
>>>>>>>>>>> to clock the 4051s or
>> do I
>>>> need to
>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>> something in to
>>>>>>>>>>> convert an external
>> signal to
>>>> a 0/+5V
>>>>>> square
>>>>>>>> wave?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Definitely using the
>>>> transistor VCA,
>>>>>> again
>>>>>>>> with either an
>>>>>>>>>>> internal modulation
>> using
>>>> another
>>>>>> Schmitt
>>>>>>>> trigger or with an
>>>>>>>>>>> external input.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Outs from the clocks
>> (schmitts
>>>> B and
>>>>>> C) with
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>>>> switches to allow
>> clock
>>>> through from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> external clock
>>>>>>>>>>> jacks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I feel obliged to have
>> an
>>>> output level
>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>> because most
>>>>>>>>>>> existing modules don't
>> have
>>>> input
>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>> controls, except
>>>>>>>>>>> maybe some filters
>> that have
>>>> built in
>>>>>> mixers
>>>>>>>> (MFOS). This
>>>>>>>>>>> brings up another
>> qiestion of
>>>> a module
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> multiples that
>>>>>>>>>>> have attenuators
>> before every
>>>> out....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If this was a stand
>> alone
>>>> unit, I
>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>> tempted to add a
>>>>>>>>>>> filter or two, but as
>> this is
>>>> intended
>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>> modular unit,
>>>>>>>>>>> no filter.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How do people feel
>> about it
>>>> outputting
>>>>>> two or
>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>>>> different waveforms?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As for sound... I have
>> to
>>>> admit
>>>>>> haven't
>>>>>>>> breadboarded this
>>>>>>>>>>> incarnation of the
>> thing yet,
>>>> but the
>>>>>> last one
>>>>>>>> I did which
>>>>>>>>>>> had 4020s instead of
>> 4024s was
>>>> rather
>>>>>> trilly
>>>>>>>> between a few
>>>>>>>>>>> of the notes depending
>> on how
>>>> the
>>>>>> clocks were
>>>>>>>> set. I'm going
>>>>>>>>>>> to try to get this
>> version
>>>>>> breadboarded
>>>>>>>> sometime next week
>>>>>>>>>>> because this week is a
>> little
>>>> hectic.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Ian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Mar
>> 2009
>>>> 22:16:43
>>>>>> -0700
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: lightburnx at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE:
>> [sdiy] Random
>>>> Tone
>>>>>> Generator
>>>>>>>> redux
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been talking
>> to Ian
>>>> off list,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> thus far we
>>>>>>>>>>> got:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -4024 as a
>> suboscillator
>>>> on the
>>>>>> output;
>>>>>>>> individual
>>>>>>>>>>> outs and/or summed
>> staircase
>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>> -The bigger
>> divisions off
>>>> the 4024
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> work as CV or
>>>>>>>>>>> gates
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Spare Schmitts
>>>> modulating
>>>>>> existing
>>>>>>>> Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>>>>>>>> C with Vactrols
>>>>>>>>>>>> -MFOS WSG tricks,
>> like a
>>>>>> transistor VCA
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Multiple,
>> buffered taps
>>>> out from
>>>>>> within
>>>>>>>> the circuit,
>>>>>>>>>>> pending they give
>>>> dramatically
>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>> enough outputs
>>>>>>>>>>>> -External
>> clock/line in
>>>> (again,
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> Schmitts A, B, or
>>>>>>>>>>> C), not unlike this
>> guitar FX
>>>> design
>>>>>> here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/pwm.gif
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for a dirt
>> simple
>>>> filter, maybe
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> rotary switch
>>>>>>>>>>> with various cap
>> values on the
>>>> output.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> reckon it'd keep
>>>>>>>>>>> feature creep down
>> (not that
>>>> it hasn't
>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> chugging along
>>>>>>>>>>> already) to let an
>> external
>>>> filter do
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And by way of
>> waveshaping,
>>>> there's
>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>>>>> stuff to be had here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/sawtooth.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Main site: http://www.geocities.com/picsynth/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, I'm
>> curious how
>>>> the beast
>>>>>> sounds
>>>>>>>> as is too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _Kyle
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Tue,
>> 3/24/09, Colin
>>>> Hinz
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Colin
>> Hinz
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE:
>> [sdiy]
>>>> Random
>>>>>> Tone
>>>>>>>> Generator redux
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "synth
>> diy"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tuesday,
>> March
>>>> 24, 2009,
>>>>>> 9:26
>>>>>>>> PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Mar
>> 2009,
>>>> Ian
>>>>>> Smith
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's a
>> link to
>>>> a
>>>>>> schematic that
>>>>>>>> I drew up
>>>>>>>>>>> for that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pseudo-random
>> tone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> generator.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/randtonereduxschem.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting!
>> How does
>>>> it
>>>>>> sound?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>> there's
>>>> anything anyone
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> think of to add
>>>>>>>>>>> to it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature-wise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would
>> make it
>>>> a
>>>>>> decent
>>>>>>>> module, I'm open
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (trigger
>> outputs,
>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>> waveforms,
>>>>>>>>>>> multiple voices
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> package,
>> etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Output level
>> control,
>>>> with
>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>>> some dumb
>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> waveshaping
>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> filtering?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Colin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy
>> mailing
>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Live?
>> SkyDrive: Get
>>>> 25 GB of
>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>> online
>>>>>>>>>>> storage.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing
>> list
>>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Express your personality in
>> color!
>>>> Preview and
>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>> themes for Hotmail?.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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>> news
>>>> travels really
>>>>>> fast.
>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009
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>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Thu Mar 26 08:06:02 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:06:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903252354140.548@p4-1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>	<5.1.0.14.2.20090325024911.00c2f388@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903252354140.548@p4-1>
Message-ID: <49CB295A.70504@xs4all.nl>

Colin Hinz schreef:
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, db wrote:
>
>> I guess I've now been convinced to do it. :)
>>
>> Am I correct in that it just needs a .1uf  from 5v to gnd?
>
> That should do it. Close to the regulator pins too, naturally enough.
Actually it doesn't matter if it is far from the regulator.

The capacitor on the *input* of the 78xx must be close to it, though.

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From jgrisso at det3.net  Thu Mar 26 14:12:39 2009
From: jgrisso at det3.net (Joe Grisso)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:12:39 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Opinions on input protection
Message-ID: <864ec6740903260612n279d6e00yd7f5baceeacfc957@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

     I've been thinking a lot about how to interface general trigger
and gate signals into interior digital logic, and wanted to get some
opinions from the group. This specifically applies to when you're
taking an external binary signal (0/5V, etc) and sending it into a 5V
or 3.3V micro. There are many methods of input protection including
suppression diodes, using a transistor as a switch, or even just
running the input into a logic buffer and using the internal
protection circuit of the IC to shift the 0-10V gate/trig signal down
to something the processor can digest without committing seppuku. I've
seen each of these methods used, either alone or together in some
larger configuration. What does everyone prefer here?

Best,

-- 
Joe Grisso
Detachment 3 Engineering


From georgehearn at btinternet.com  Thu Mar 26 14:22:37 2009
From: georgehearn at btinternet.com (George Hearn)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:22:37 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Opinions on input protection
In-Reply-To: <864ec6740903260612n279d6e00yd7f5baceeacfc957@mail.gmail.com>
References: <864ec6740903260612n279d6e00yd7f5baceeacfc957@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c9ae15$ee8af480$cba0dd80$@com>

For CMOS I usually just use a resistor in series with the input to limit the
internal protection diode current.  For TTL inputs I use a diode clamp to
+5V/0V and a resistor after the clamp in series with the input for
additional protection.  For inverting opamps I use a pair of anti-parallel
diodes from the (-) input to ground, with the input resistor (Rin) limiting
the fault current.  This is just my way of doing things, not necessarily the
correct (or best) way to protect, others may differ but it works for me.  G

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Joe Grisso
Sent: 26 March 2009 13:13
To: synth-Diy diy
Subject: [sdiy] Opinions on input protection

Hey all,

     I've been thinking a lot about how to interface general trigger
and gate signals into interior digital logic, and wanted to get some
opinions from the group. This specifically applies to when you're
taking an external binary signal (0/5V, etc) and sending it into a 5V
or 3.3V micro. There are many methods of input protection including
suppression diodes, using a transistor as a switch, or even just
running the input into a logic buffer and using the internal
protection circuit of the IC to shift the 0-10V gate/trig signal down
to something the processor can digest without committing seppuku. I've
seen each of these methods used, either alone or together in some
larger configuration. What does everyone prefer here?

Best,

-- 
Joe Grisso
Detachment 3 Engineering
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 26 14:25:02 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:25:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] picsynth? anyone built it here?
Message-ID: <BAY144-W309A650AF7F8E493680B5EC8910@phx.gbl>



The more I look at the PICSYNTH the more i want to try it
  
my main concern however is with the keyboard required.

i have a bunch of old  thrift store keyboards but i am not sure if they are the right kind or have enough keys


1. do these need to be resistor or diode style?
2. how many keys
3. beyond that , are there any instructions on how to do this? I couldnt find any on the PICSYNTH site.

4. is there a way to also add expo control somehow? this may be way more complex than would be worth it but it is too bad you cant control the pitch  with cv as well as the keyboard

if it could be, than a multi oscillator synth could be made quite compact...or am i wrong?



thanks so much



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

 http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page






From rtellason at verizon.net  Thu Mar 26 14:45:41 2009
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:45:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] voltage-controlled AM radio tuning
In-Reply-To: <C39BC53BF9F7435A900343D1B9EA6925@onlive.corp>
References: <C39BC53BF9F7435A900343D1B9EA6925@onlive.corp>
Message-ID: <200903260945.42251.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Saturday 14 March 2009 04:25:20 pm Cary Roberts wrote:
> >But if you are happy with a slower response, the coolest thing would be a
> >voltage controlled motor doing the tuning. Using a small motor driving a
> >pot and the tuning shaft, and using the pot as a position sensor for a
> >feedback controlled positioning circuit, you could wannder back and
> >foward at will using CV.
>
> That's actually a pretty good idea.  Servos are PWM controlled.  50hz with
> a pulse width of .5ms to 2.5ms (1% to 5%) for most servos.  This would be
> pretty easy to implement with a 555 timer and comparator.

When our family took a trip to Germany in 1960,  my mother bought a rather 
large radio,  brand name "Saba",  to have sent back to the US.  That had a 
very similar function,  though it only worked on the FM band ("UK").  That 
was implemented with vacuum tubes!  They used that to compensate for 
frequency drift,  rather than the later AFC arrangements.

Nothing new here!


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From jluciani at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 14:58:20 2009
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:58:20 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Opinions on input protection
In-Reply-To: <864ec6740903260612n279d6e00yd7f5baceeacfc957@mail.gmail.com>
References: <864ec6740903260612n279d6e00yd7f5baceeacfc957@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <608bfe540903260658p162eaaccj492afc1bd6a95f32@mail.gmail.com>

I would use AHC logic which has 5V tolerant inputs when powered
from a 3.3V supply.

If you are going to rely on the protection diodes make sure to
check the uC specs. Some of the Atmel parts are 1mA. I believe
some of the TI MSP430 parts are around 4mA. I would limit the
current to a value much lower than the absolute max.

I prefer to rely on the protection diodes for a protection function
not a standard operating function.

(* jcl *)

-- 

You can't create open hardware with closed EDA tools.

http://www.luciani.org


From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Thu Mar 26 15:07:15 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:07:15 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] FS: 16mm Alpha potentiometers 100k & 50k linear
In-Reply-To: <200903260945.42251.rtellason@verizon.net>
References: <C39BC53BF9F7435A900343D1B9EA6925@onlive.corp>
	<200903260945.42251.rtellason@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <49CB8C13.7060006@makenoisemusic.com>

I have 2 bags of 100pieces each Alpha 16mm PCB, right angle mount 
potentiometers. One bag is 100k linear, the other 50k linear. I am no 
longer using this type of pot. These were pirchased from Futurlec last 
year. I'd like to get $75.00 for the lot of 200. That is about 25% off 
the new price from futurlec.

Tony


From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 26 17:52:52 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:52:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Random Tone Generator redux
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W205833640C0B7468314E8DC8910@phx.gbl>
References: <696155.53517.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BAY144-W205833640C0B7468314E8DC8910@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W279F0131518B3AF565D877F5910@phx.gbl>


Hey all,
Updated the schematic on my site. It now includes the external clock ins, Square Pulse and Sawtooth waveforms, the transistor VCA (I hope I worked it right) with modulation and external mod in, and the output volume pot.
A warning, all the switches, jacks, and pots are represented by Molex connectors because this is the schematic that will be turned into the board.
And no, the bypass caps aren't on there... but then again, neither are the extra outputs or the extra pads or proto area. Also, the schematic has flowed onto two pages of the PDF. For it to make a lot of sense you kinda need to print it up and tape the pages together so that the lines meet up.>.<
http://www.sdiy.org/modius13/

It's under the Random Tone Project link.
-Ian (going to get some lunch now) Smith
_________________________________________________________________
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8.
http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A


From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Mar 26 18:43:34 2009
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:43:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Conrad UK
Message-ID: <DB32CE84-0469-4C5C-BBC7-2C14794E0ABC@blueyonder.co.uk>

Conrad electronics (Germany) now have a UK outlet :-

http://www1.uk.conrad.com/

Graham



From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 26 19:04:54 2009
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:04:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Opinions on input protection
In-Reply-To: <000001c9ae15$ee8af480$cba0dd80$@com>
References: <864ec6740903260612n279d6e00yd7f5baceeacfc957@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c9ae15$ee8af480$cba0dd80$@com>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W413166AD344478FAA1BCA7B4910@phx.gbl>


If I'm not mistaken, the CMOS protection diodes are at least in part parasitic structures (existing only as a side effect of the CMOS process and not intentionally created), and current through these could cause latchup.

Maybe what you describe for the TTL case would be safer here?

I guess in general it would be a good idea to test these things before deploying them, though it had really never occurred to me before.  In some cases there are expensive or irreplaceable components to be protected, and I wouldn't want to leave that to an untested circuit.

I'm not sure how necessary it would be to protect an inverting amplifier input, as the op amp will clip (and limit the current draw) but shouldn't be harmed unless the inverting input pin exceeds the supply voltages (which would require a severe overload).  Other summing node inputs (like OTAs) should be easier to damage.  Maybe in this case the input resistor could be split, with reverse-parallel diodes somewhere "inside" to limit the maximum input current?

----------------------------------------
> From: georgehearn at btinternet.com
> To: jgrisso at det3.net; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] Opinions on input protection
> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:22:37 +0000
> CC:
>
> For CMOS I usually just use a resistor in series with the input to limit the
> internal protection diode current. For TTL inputs I use a diode clamp to
> +5V/0V and a resistor after the clamp in series with the input for
> additional protection. For inverting opamps I use a pair of anti-parallel
> diodes from the (-) input to ground, with the input resistor (Rin) limiting
> the fault current. This is just my way of doing things, not necessarily the
> correct (or best) way to protect, others may differ but it works for me. G
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Joe Grisso
> Sent: 26 March 2009 13:13
> To: synth-Diy diy
> Subject: [sdiy] Opinions on input protection
>
> Hey all,
>
> I've been thinking a lot about how to interface general trigger
> and gate signals into interior digital logic, and wanted to get some
> opinions from the group. This specifically applies to when you're
> taking an external binary signal (0/5V, etc) and sending it into a 5V
> or 3.3V micro. There are many methods of input protection including
> suppression diodes, using a transistor as a switch, or even just
> running the input into a logic buffer and using the internal
> protection circuit of the IC to shift the 0-10V gate/trig signal down
> to something the processor can digest without committing seppuku. I've
> seen each of these methods used, either alone or together in some
> larger configuration. What does everyone prefer here?
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Joe Grisso
> Detachment 3 Engineering
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme


From juzowen at googlemail.com  Thu Mar 26 19:48:04 2009
From: juzowen at googlemail.com (Justin Owen)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:48:04 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Korg MS20 VCA schematic
Message-ID: <49cbcde6.0aaa660a.23dc.ffffee63@mx.google.com>

Hey all,

If I was to draw up a 'clean' version of the Korg MS20 VCA and post it - is there anyone here that might be willing to 'proof read' it? Maybe even suggest some mods/improvements?

I'd be taking it straight from a scan the user/service manual but there's a few things I'm not 100% sure about.

Just a thought...

Cheers,

Justin




From jgrisso at det3.net  Thu Mar 26 20:21:28 2009
From: jgrisso at det3.net (Joe Grisso)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:21:28 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Opinions on input protection
In-Reply-To: <SNT104-W413166AD344478FAA1BCA7B4910@phx.gbl>
References: <864ec6740903260612n279d6e00yd7f5baceeacfc957@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c9ae15$ee8af480$cba0dd80$@com>
	<SNT104-W413166AD344478FAA1BCA7B4910@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <864ec6740903261221g6b7229bew7ee4432a9bf1ea85@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Scott Nordlund <gsn10 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I guess in general it would be a good idea to test these things before deploying them, though it had really never occurred to me before. ?In some cases there are expensive or irreplaceable components to be protected, and I wouldn't want to leave that to an untested circuit.

Yeah, like a 200MHz ARM9 in a BGA package... that would suck to fry an
input pad on it.

> I'm not sure how necessary it would be to protect an inverting amplifier input, as the op amp will clip (and limit the current draw) but shouldn't be harmed unless the inverting input pin exceeds the supply voltages (which would require a severe overload). ?Other summing node inputs (like OTAs) should be easier to damage. ?Maybe in this case the input resistor could be split, with reverse-parallel diodes somewhere "inside" to limit the maximum input current?

For op-amps, it's not a big deal. The general case I'm applying here
is something like this:

[Trigger from EG, gate from KB, etc] -> [Input Circuit] -> [MCU or
other digitalia]

Where the triggers can be anywhere from 0-15V in some cases, and the
MCU is running at 3.3V or less.

I usually use an input similar to what Yves Usson uses on his ADSR
circuit - basically a diode that's reverse biased on the gate input to
filter out any negative voltages, then a double NPN CE buffer that
acts as a switch. Instead of just buffering though, I usually have 2
lower voltages available in my designs - a 5V and a 3.3V. So, I take
the first transistor and use 5V as Vcc, and 3.3V as Vcc on the second
transistor. It drops pretty well, and I only get about 0.3-0.4V of
undershoot/overshoot during switching transients - they only last
300nsec or so. However, I do have this nasty tendency to oversimplify
and want to reduce the circuit to a minima at times, so I wanted to
get others opinions... hence the message. I like to see what other
folks on the list are doing.

-- 
Joe Grisso
Detachment 3 Engineering



From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu Mar 26 21:20:36 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:20:36 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] picsynth? anyone built it here?
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W309A650AF7F8E493680B5EC8910@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W309A650AF7F8E493680B5EC8910@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <86E18C0D-F926-43AC-B650-BADCA5EBA769@electricdruid.net>


On 26 Mar 2009, at 13:25, Dan Snazelle wrote:

> The more I look at the PICSYNTH the more i want to try it

Go for it!


> my main concern however is with the keyboard required.
>
> i have a bunch of old  thrift store keyboards but i am not sure if  
> they are the right kind or have enough keys

"Not enough keys" isn't a problem for the synth. You could build it  
with one octave if you felt the urge (bass pedals perhaps).

> 1. do these need to be resistor or diode style?

Diode matrix style.

> 2. how many keys

The schematic has 4 octaves, but you don't have to wire them all up,  
so this is a maximum, not a minimum.

> 3. beyond that , are there any instructions on how to do this? I  
> couldnt find any on the PICSYNTH site.

No, neither could I, but matrix keyboards are all pretty much the  
same and we'll all help you!

> 4. is there a way to also add expo control somehow? this may be way  
> more complex than would be worth it but it is too bad you cant  
> control the pitch  with cv as well as the keyboard

In theory, you could repurpose the "OSC1 Tune" CV input, but it'd  
involve modifications to the code, which isn't provided.
So no, there's no way to add a CV input.


> if it could be, than a multi oscillator synth could be made quite  
> compact...or am i wrong?

Now you've got me wondering whether you could parallel up the two  
keyboard matrices somehow. I can't see another way to do it, and I  
can't see right now whether that's feasible or not.

Still, the PICSYNTH is a nice little project. I was impressed how  
much they got out of so little.

T.




From taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 26 21:27:32 2009
From: taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com (Ian Smith)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:27:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminium PCBs
Message-ID: <BAY141-W17DEF9C51630CABF696827F5910@phx.gbl>


Hey all,

I was running a quote through PCB Cart and got curious about their "special" PCBs. I can find little to no information on the Aluminium Base PCBs. I guess my first question is why?

-Ian

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009


From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu Mar 26 21:48:36 2009
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 07:48:36 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] Korg MS20 VCA schematic
References: <49cbcde6.0aaa660a.23dc.ffffee63@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <082213E7E51E44D4BBFE4B6464EF98F5@ownerf0d9273f5>

Justin, I think you might need to hand select the transistors!
that is all I know about it ;D
Oh, and it's noisy.

best, paul perry Melbourne Australia




From electronicbattle at googlemail.com  Thu Mar 26 22:01:39 2009
From: electronicbattle at googlemail.com (Electronic Battle)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:01:39 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminium PCBs
References: <BAY141-W17DEF9C51630CABF696827F5910@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DB65FA01BB9F448E90A47CA7384F14DE@cruncher2>

> I was running a quote through PCB Cart and got curious about their 
> "special" PCBs. I can find little to no information on the Aluminium Base 
> PCBs. I guess my first question is why?


Maybe they meant to say "alumina" instead - meaning aluminium oxide ceramic 
as a dielectric which is very low loss and thus suitable for high frequency 
design (tens of GHz).  Alumins is good at higher temperatures where it still 
has low loss whereas plastics (e.g. Teflon chopped fibre and the like) gets 
more lossy with rising temperature.

EB 



From nick.liebrecht at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 04:47:32 2009
From: nick.liebrecht at gmail.com (Nick Liebrecht)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:47:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminium PCBs
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W17DEF9C51630CABF696827F5910@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY141-W17DEF9C51630CABF696827F5910@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <de344b680903262047t777e0cc5vc48c94c0b163b23a@mail.gmail.com>

It's aluminum.  These are also called MCPCBs.  Ther're great for
handling thermal issues.  We use them all the tine for power LEDs.

-Nick L

On 3/26/09, Ian Smith <taciturn_unquiet at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I was running a quote through PCB Cart and got curious about their "special"
> PCBs. I can find little to no information on the Aluminium Base PCBs. I
> guess my first question is why?
>
> -Ian
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device



From asfi at eol.ca  Fri Mar 27 05:31:18 2009
From: asfi at eol.ca (Colin Hinz)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:31:18 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <49CB295A.70504@xs4all.nl>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323123224.07d22e20@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090323212017.00c2ecb8@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20090325024911.00c2f388@pop.att.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0903252354140.548@p4-1> <49CB295A.70504@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903270027070.752@p4-1>

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009, Simon Brouwer wrote:

> Colin Hinz schreef:
>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, db wrote:
>> 
>>> I guess I've now been convinced to do it. :)
>>> 
>>> Am I correct in that it just needs a .1uf  from 5v to gnd?
>> 
>> That should do it. Close to the regulator pins too, naturally enough.
>
> Actually it doesn't matter if it is far from the regulator.

OH YES IT DOES!

Otherwise, it wouldn't be necessary to specifiy it at all, in most
cases, because IC decoupling would take care of it.

> The capacitor on the *input* of the 78xx must be close to it, though.

Bypass caps in general must be close to whatever they're stabilising,
because otherwise you're just building itty bitty L-C tank circuits.

And if your output L-C is resonant with load transients, you can get the
4V p-p "regulator" oscillator I mentioned earlier.

- Colin



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Fri Mar 27 07:00:52 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:00:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0903270027070.752@p4-1>
Message-ID: <0KH500DLBI1HWI@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

In my (somewhat limited) experience with building electronic circuits, I
have yet to detect any effect of adding or not adding 0.1uF bypass caps.  I
have settled on the habit of adding one or two pairs of such caps to any
circuit.  I generally try to line up my IC's so that they straddle a single
pair of parallel power rail traces.  I typically put one pair of caps on
either end of the string of IC's, very close to the rails.  I don't like
cluttering up the areas in front of IC power pins with them, as this would
complicate my PCB layout strategy.  I may add another pair between digital
chips, but not usually between opamps.

However, something has been troubling me about these caps: If several of
them are connected between a rail and ground at various locations, wouldn't
they end up fulfilling the same function as one cap, several times as large
(given that they are capacitances in parallel)?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Colin Hinz
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:31 PM
> To: Synth-Diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
> 
> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009, Simon Brouwer wrote:
> 
> > Colin Hinz schreef:
> >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, db wrote:
> >>
> >>> I guess I've now been convinced to do it. :)
> >>>
> >>> Am I correct in that it just needs a .1uf  from 5v to gnd?
> >>
> >> That should do it. Close to the regulator pins too, naturally enough.
> >
> > Actually it doesn't matter if it is far from the regulator.
> 
> OH YES IT DOES!
> 
> Otherwise, it wouldn't be necessary to specifiy it at all, in most
> cases, because IC decoupling would take care of it.
> 
> > The capacitor on the *input* of the 78xx must be close to it, though.
> 
> Bypass caps in general must be close to whatever they're stabilising,
> because otherwise you're just building itty bitty L-C tank circuits.
> 
> And if your output L-C is resonant with load transients, you can get the
> 4V p-p "regulator" oscillator I mentioned earlier.
> 
> - Colin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Fri Mar 27 08:16:32 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 08:16:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <0KH500DLBI1HWI@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KH500DLBI1HWI@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49CC7D50.4010209@xs4all.nl>

David G. Dixon schreef:
> In my (somewhat limited) experience with building electronic circuits, I
> have yet to detect any effect of adding or not adding 0.1uF bypass caps.  I
> have settled on the habit of adding one or two pairs of such caps to any
> circuit.  I generally try to line up my IC's so that they straddle a single
> pair of parallel power rail traces.  I typically put one pair of caps on
> either end of the string of IC's, very close to the rails.  I don't like
> cluttering up the areas in front of IC power pins with them, as this would
> complicate my PCB layout strategy.  I may add another pair between digital
> chips, but not usually between opamps.
>
> However, something has been troubling me about these caps: If several of
> them are connected between a rail and ground at various locations, wouldn't
> they end up fulfilling the same function as one cap, several times as large
> (given that they are capacitances in parallel)?
>   
If they are at different locations, there must be a conductor between 
them which has resistance and inductance.
So, for high frequencies, no they wouldn't .


-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From jhaible at debitel.net  Fri Mar 27 10:00:15 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:00:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] New web adress for JH.
Message-ID: <26E8F7DCA31F4FA78CA0276EA77CF7BF@jhsilent>

Hi,

my new web adress for my homepage is  www.jhaible.de .

The old one ( http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/hj.html ) only shows a 
link to www.jhaible.de from now on.

IMPORTANT:
All my sub-pages that were formerly hosted at  jhaible.heim.at have a new 
location as well, but there is no forwarding link.
If you have any direct link to jhaible.heim.at (most mails about selling my 
PCBs have such links), please go directly to www.jhaible.de and navigate 
from there.

Thank you, and sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

JH. 



From cheater00 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 10:30:08 2009
From: cheater00 at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:30:08 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminium PCBs
In-Reply-To: <DB65FA01BB9F448E90A47CA7384F14DE@cruncher2>
References: <BAY141-W17DEF9C51630CABF696827F5910@phx.gbl>
	<DB65FA01BB9F448E90A47CA7384F14DE@cruncher2>
Message-ID: <cf1e1cb10903270230t7e9dd8b4kde228195942ae569@mail.gmail.com>

What's this 'loss' thing?

Nick: do you think that they would be good for oscillators, to
maintain thermal inertia?

D.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Electronic Battle
<electronicbattle at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> I was running a quote through PCB Cart and got curious about their
>> "special" PCBs. I can find little to no information on the Aluminium Base
>> PCBs. I guess my first question is why?
>
>
> Maybe they meant to say "alumina" instead - meaning aluminium oxide ceramic
> as a dielectric which is very low loss and thus suitable for high frequency
> design (tens of GHz). ?Alumins is good at higher temperatures where it still
> has low loss whereas plastics (e.g. Teflon chopped fibre and the like) gets
> more lossy with rising temperature.
>
> EB
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 12:06:11 2009
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:06:11 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
Message-ID: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk>

Hi there, just seeking some opinions on sliders.

We'll side step the interface / aesthetic details for now (how people 
play them differently to knobs) - what I'm really asking about is 
reliability.

I brought up the possibility of sliders in conversation - thinking on 
some interesting module & design ideas. While people were very 
interested in the design possibilities, it was flagged up that several 
people had had bad experiences with sliders, with examples of 
dirty/unreliable on the SH101 and JD800. (Though it was interesting to 
hear what people thought on what functions should stick to knob usage -- 
seqs and mixing, good for sliders, osc tuning maybe not (I think it'd be 
ok?!))

The ones I've been looking at are quite standard Alpha types - the 
datasheets quote a life of 15000 cylces, which is the same as their 
rotary pots (which I've always been happy with) and, interestingly, the 
same as various other slide pot manufacturers such as Alps & Bourns 
(again from datasheets).

What people were saying was that they we more prone to dust problems - 
this seems obvious as the travel is much more 'open' to the environment 
than on regular pots, but I'd appreciate other opinions. Sliders in 
general seem to be used less widely - perhaps due to the mechanical 
difficulty of slot cutting or perhaps as they're not quite as readily 
available as rotary types. One thing that struck me was the possibility 
that machines like the SH101 used somewhat inferior sliders to cut costs 
-- who knows?! Alpha products have always seemed to me to offer a great 
balance between cost and quality - solid, but not too pricey.

Opinions - please!
Cheers & best,
Tom / BugBrand


From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Fri Mar 27 12:31:55 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:31:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
In-Reply-To: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49CCB92B.1090307@mnet-online.de>

Hi Tom
> available as rotary types. One thing that struck me was the possibility 
> that machines like the SH101 used somewhat inferior sliders to cut costs 
> -- who knows?! Alpha products have always seemed to me to offer a great 
> balance between cost and quality - solid, but not too pricey.

I think the rumour about bad sliders in the SH-101 is mostly owing to 
the fact, that the SH101 very often was treated not too god by its owners.

I own a SH-101 since 1984, and the only problem I ever had was the known 
broken bender, which happens due to fatigue of material.

Florian


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 27 13:06:30 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:06:30 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
In-Reply-To: <49CCB92B.1090307@mnet-online.de>
References: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk> <49CCB92B.1090307@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W22AFF8414C521D32217283C88E0@phx.gbl>


for me, i have always just been afraid of the drilling involved.


they seem like a good option though

they never gave me any trouble on my akai ax60



--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:31:55 +0100
> From: fanwander at mnet-online.de
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
>
> Hi Tom
>> available as rotary types. One thing that struck me was the possibility
>> that machines like the SH101 used somewhat inferior sliders to cut costs
>> -- who knows?! Alpha products have always seemed to me to offer a great
>> balance between cost and quality - solid, but not too pricey.
>
> I think the rumour about bad sliders in the SH-101 is mostly owing to
> the fact, that the SH101 very often was treated not too god by its owners.
>
> I own a SH-101 since 1984, and the only problem I ever had was the known
> broken bender, which happens due to fatigue of material.
>
> Florian
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Mar 27 14:06:42 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:06:42 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
In-Reply-To: <49CCB92B.1090307@mnet-online.de>
References: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk> <49CCB92B.1090307@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <9F3CB401-65BD-4E78-AE14-E21A51928EEB@electricdruid.net>


On 27 Mar 2009, at 11:31, Florian Anwander wrote:

> Hi Tom
>> available as rotary types. One thing that struck me was the  
>> possibility that machines like the SH101 used somewhat inferior  
>> sliders to cut costs -- who knows?! Alpha products have always  
>> seemed to me to offer a great balance between cost and quality -  
>> solid, but not too pricey.
>
> I think the rumour about bad sliders in the SH-101 is mostly owing  
> to the fact, that the SH101 very often was treated not too god by  
> its owners.
>
> I own a SH-101 since 1984, and the only problem I ever had was the  
> known broken bender, which happens due to fatigue of material.
>
> Florian

I agree with Florian. My SH101 has had one dead slider in its life,  
but my Pro-One has had three dead pots. It just depends how much  
waggling they get. If you're the type of person who likes to provide  
dynamic filter effects by waggling the cutoff slider up and down  
whilst you play, then obviously the slider is going to wear out  
faster. But the same is true for rotary pots.

I suspect that for SDIY it's the slot cutting that puts most people  
off. Personally, I think they're a good option anywhere where the  
visual indication they provide makes sense - and that probably covers  
most things.

T.




From derek at umatic.nl  Fri Mar 27 14:32:12 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:32:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
In-Reply-To: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49CCD55C.9040105@umatic.nl>

As far as dust is concerned, you could always add some sort of "dust 
skirt" inside the slider slot. Something made of (non-static?) rubber or 
brushes or something that closes around the shaft of the slider to keep 
dust from falling into the slider itself. I've seen these on some 
hardware out there, although I have no idea what they are called.

best!
D.

Tom Bugs wrote:

> What people were saying was that they we more prone to dust problems - 
> this seems obvious as the travel is much more 'open' to the environment 
> than on regular pots, but I'd appreciate other opinions. 

-- 
::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: 
http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista :::
---Oblique Strategy # 39:
"Cut a vital connection"


From steve at willacy.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 14:42:27 2009
From: steve at willacy.co.uk (Steve Carter)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:42:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
In-Reply-To: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8DDE014F-7136-411D-ACB6-BD0E7C291CDF@willacy.co.uk>

There are sliders and sliders. The professional long throw 100mm ALPS  
type at ?50 a time are superb, silky smooth and are used in the best  
mixing consoles.  Having said that, even the smaller and much cheaper  
types are worth using in a lot of applications.  The biggest problem  
with sliders is keeping the dust and dirt out especially when they are  
in a horizontal position.  I have stripped and inspected 100s of  
sliders and there are four problems that occur time after time:
1. Dust and dirt accumulation - sometimes abrasive causing track wear.
2. Mechanical problems - usually the housing partially parting company  
from the track due to undue pressure on the slider knob.
3. Wipers losing tension - this is usually due to the slight rocking  
of the shaft inherent in most designs.
4. Track deterioration - especially after inappropriate switch cleaner.

Sliders are great for envelope generators and give a more intuitive  
user interface. For synth use, especially in the upright position  
where you can't pour your tea or coffee in them,  I don't think they  
are any more or less reliable than a conventional pot.  The modern  
Alps or Panasonic budget sliders are reliable and have better dust  
protection than older designs - I suppose the only real headache is  
cutting out the slot in the front panel

I'm cringing at all those ARP Axxe synths with bad sliders but it was  
a good front panel for getting people started with synthesis.

Steve


On 27 Mar 2009, at 11:06, Tom Bugs wrote:

> Hi there, just seeking some opinions on sliders.
>
> We'll side step the interface / aesthetic details for now (how  
> people play them differently to knobs) - what I'm really asking  
> about is reliability.
>
> I brought up the possibility of sliders in conversation - thinking  
> on some interesting module & design ideas. While people were very  
> interested in the design possibilities, it was flagged up that  
> several people had had bad experiences with sliders, with examples  
> of dirty/unreliable on the SH101 and JD800. (Though it was  
> interesting to hear what people thought on what functions should  
> stick to knob usage -- seqs and mixing, good for sliders, osc tuning  
> maybe not (I think it'd be ok?!))
>
> The ones I've been looking at are quite standard Alpha types - the  
> datasheets quote a life of 15000 cylces, which is the same as their  
> rotary pots (which I've always been happy with) and, interestingly,  
> the same as various other slide pot manufacturers such as Alps &  
> Bourns (again from datasheets).
>
> What people were saying was that they we more prone to dust problems  
> - this seems obvious as the travel is much more 'open' to the  
> environment than on regular pots, but I'd appreciate other opinions.  
> Sliders in general seem to be used less widely - perhaps due to the  
> mechanical difficulty of slot cutting or perhaps as they're not  
> quite as readily available as rotary types. One thing that struck me  
> was the possibility that machines like the SH101 used somewhat  
> inferior sliders to cut costs -- who knows?! Alpha products have  
> always seemed to me to offer a great balance between cost and  
> quality - solid, but not too pricey.
>
> Opinions - please!
> Cheers & best,
> Tom / BugBrand
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Fri Mar 27 17:09:28 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:09:28 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <49CC7D50.4010209@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <0KH6007N6A7R7A@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

> > However, something has been troubling me about these caps: If several of
> > them are connected between a rail and ground at various locations,
> wouldn't
> > they end up fulfilling the same function as one cap, several times as
> large
> > (given that they are capacitances in parallel)?
> >
> If they are at different locations, there must be a conductor between
> them which has resistance and inductance.
> So, for high frequencies, no they wouldn't .

What do you mean by "high"?  Assuming the trace represents a resistor R = 1
ohm (which is probably conservative), and the cap is C = 0.1uF, then this
makes a low-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of about 1.6 MHz.  How does
this help?



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 17:29:10 2009
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:29:10 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
In-Reply-To: <8DDE014F-7136-411D-ACB6-BD0E7C291CDF@willacy.co.uk>
References: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<8DDE014F-7136-411D-ACB6-BD0E7C291CDF@willacy.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49CCFED6.1060909@bugbrand.co.uk>

Thanks all for the replies so far!
It is already very interesting to see that there are opposing views.
(I'm waiting to hear back from a couple of people who replied personally 
to me before forwarding their messages to the group if they're happy 
with that)
Do keep 'em coming (if we've not covered most of the pertinent bases yet)
Wondering also on DIY dust protection methods as Derek mentioned.
- I think 'brushes' may be difficult, but maybe rubber or some felt-like 
material would work. Cutting this correctly may be problematic though. Hmm.
As far as slot cutting goes - I will be continuing to use PCBcart for my 
frontpanels and they can do slot cutting. I only did slot cutting once 
before (for my Klee seq) - I used an end mill on my CNC for this and it 
was a load of work, though the end results were pretty good.
Cheers, Tom

Steve Carter wrote:
> There are sliders and sliders. The professional long throw 100mm ALPS 
> type at ?50 a time are superb, silky smooth and are used in the best 
> mixing consoles.  Having said that, even the smaller and much cheaper 
> types are worth using in a lot of applications.  The biggest problem 
> with sliders is keeping the dust and dirt out especially when they are 
> in a horizontal position.  I have stripped and inspected 100s of 
> sliders and there are four problems that occur time after time:
> 1. Dust and dirt accumulation - sometimes abrasive causing track wear.
> 2. Mechanical problems - usually the housing partially parting company 
> from the track due to undue pressure on the slider knob.
> 3. Wipers losing tension - this is usually due to the slight rocking 
> of the shaft inherent in most designs.
> 4. Track deterioration - especially after inappropriate switch cleaner.
>
> Sliders are great for envelope generators and give a more intuitive 
> user interface. For synth use, especially in the upright position 
> where you can't pour your tea or coffee in them,  I don't think they 
> are any more or less reliable than a conventional pot.  The modern 
> Alps or Panasonic budget sliders are reliable and have better dust 
> protection than older designs - I suppose the only real headache is 
> cutting out the slot in the front panel
>
> I'm cringing at all those ARP Axxe synths with bad sliders but it was 
> a good front panel for getting people started with synthesis.
>
> Steve
>
>
> On 27 Mar 2009, at 11:06, Tom Bugs wrote:
>
>> Hi there, just seeking some opinions on sliders.
>>
>> We'll side step the interface / aesthetic details for now (how people 
>> play them differently to knobs) - what I'm really asking about is 
>> reliability.
>>
>> I brought up the possibility of sliders in conversation - thinking on 
>> some interesting module & design ideas. While people were very 
>> interested in the design possibilities, it was flagged up that 
>> several people had had bad experiences with sliders, with examples of 
>> dirty/unreliable on the SH101 and JD800. (Though it was interesting 
>> to hear what people thought on what functions should stick to knob 
>> usage -- seqs and mixing, good for sliders, osc tuning maybe not (I 
>> think it'd be ok?!))
>>
>> The ones I've been looking at are quite standard Alpha types - the 
>> datasheets quote a life of 15000 cylces, which is the same as their 
>> rotary pots (which I've always been happy with) and, interestingly, 
>> the same as various other slide pot manufacturers such as Alps & 
>> Bourns (again from datasheets).
>>
>> What people were saying was that they we more prone to dust problems 
>> - this seems obvious as the travel is much more 'open' to the 
>> environment than on regular pots, but I'd appreciate other opinions. 
>> Sliders in general seem to be used less widely - perhaps due to the 
>> mechanical difficulty of slot cutting or perhaps as they're not quite 
>> as readily available as rotary types. One thing that struck me was 
>> the possibility that machines like the SH101 used somewhat inferior 
>> sliders to cut costs -- who knows?! Alpha products have always seemed 
>> to me to offer a great balance between cost and quality - solid, but 
>> not too pricey.
>>
>> Opinions - please!
>> Cheers & best,
>> Tom / BugBrand
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>   



From raywilson at comcast.net  Fri Mar 27 18:06:35 2009
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:06:35 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminium PCBs
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903270230t7e9dd8b4kde228195942ae569@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY141-W17DEF9C51630CABF696827F5910@phx.gbl><DB65FA01BB9F448E90A47CA7384F14DE@cruncher2>
	<cf1e1cb10903270230t7e9dd8b4kde228195942ae569@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <870E94DCD84549A2954526FD76636B61@RaymondLabPC>

Some pertinent info.

http://www.cofan-usa.com/mcpcb.php


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cheater cheater" <cheater00 at gmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 3:30 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Aluminium PCBs


> What's this 'loss' thing?
>
> Nick: do you think that they would be good for oscillators, to
> maintain thermal inertia?
>
> D.
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Electronic Battle
> <electronicbattle at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> I was running a quote through PCB Cart and got curious about their
>>> "special" PCBs. I can find little to no information on the Aluminium 
>>> Base
>>> PCBs. I guess my first question is why?
>>
>>
>> Maybe they meant to say "alumina" instead - meaning aluminium oxide 
>> ceramic
>> as a dielectric which is very low loss and thus suitable for high 
>> frequency
>> design (tens of GHz). Alumins is good at higher temperatures where it 
>> still
>> has low loss whereas plastics (e.g. Teflon chopped fibre and the like) 
>> gets
>> more lossy with rising temperature.
>>
>> EB
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From gsn10 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 27 18:46:17 2009
From: gsn10 at hotmail.com (Scott Nordlund)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:46:17 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <0KH6007N6A7R7A@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <49CC7D50.4010209@xs4all.nl>
	<0KH6007N6A7R7A@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W21006C8576AB905C139FEBB48E0@phx.gbl>


You're thinking about it the wrong way.  High frequency signals (hopefully) aren't emanating from the power supply to the rest of the circuit.  

Switching in a CMOS circuit will cause a transient spike in the current supplied to the chip.  Parasitic inductance or long leads in the power supply lines will limit how quickly the power supply can respond to this, leading to a local drop in supply voltage.  This enters nearby circuits via the power rails and can cause noise, glitches, etc..  A decoupling capacitor on the power leads of each chip will stabilize the power during these transient conditions and limit their affect on other parts of the circuit.

Or you could think about it this way: decoupling caps provide a low impedance path to ground for high frequency signals (noise).

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:09:28 -0700
> From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca
> Subject: RE: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
> To: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> CC:
>
>>> However, something has been troubling me about these caps: If several of
>>> them are connected between a rail and ground at various locations,
>> wouldn't
>>> they end up fulfilling the same function as one cap, several times as
>> large
>>> (given that they are capacitances in parallel)?
>>>
>> If they are at different locations, there must be a conductor between
>> them which has resistance and inductance.
>> So, for high frequencies, no they wouldn't .
>
> What do you mean by "high"? Assuming the trace represents a resistor R = 1
> ohm (which is probably conservative), and the cap is C = 0.1uF, then this
> makes a low-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of about 1.6 MHz. How does
> this help?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From np at planetarc.de  Fri Mar 27 18:51:13 2009
From: np at planetarc.de (np)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:51:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Low-Dropout regulators... (DIY-style)
Message-ID: <49CD1211.2080604@planetarc.de>

Hi folks. Something semi-synth related, but still about music...


It's difficult to find adjustable low dropout regulators where I live. 
As a quick replacement I've designed one myself out of a opamp, a 
pass-transistor and a stabilized higher supply voltage (low 
current-capability, used to power the opamp and as a voltage-reference).

Schematic is here: http://torus.untergrund.net/tubes/filament_supply.png

That circuit works fine for heating tubes-filaments. I even have a 
soft-start to deal with the high currents of the tube-heaters. However, 
I'm about to use the same circuit to generate 9V out of a 12V supply 
(filtered DC with a good deal of ripple).

Instead of heaters I will power a audio processing circuit that will 
have quite a bit of capacitance across the rails.

Should I worry about oscillation from the opamp in this case? After all 
the opamp will drive a capacitive load. Also how can I avoid oscillation 
for such circuits? I don't need fast resoponse from the opamp. The 
unregulated DC has 100hz ripple, but all fast transients have already 
been filtered out.

Btw - I gave a LM317 a try and found out that the specimen that I have 
here starts to generate squeeky noises on it's output if I operated on 
the edge the minimal drop-out voltage :-)

Cheers,
 Nils


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 18:53:49 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:53:49 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <0KH6007N6A7R7A@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KH6007N6A7R7A@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49CD12AD.3070807@burnit.co.uk>

David G. Dixon wrote:
>>> However, something has been troubling me about these caps: If several of
>>> them are connected between a rail and ground at various locations,
>>>       
>> wouldn't
>>     
>>> they end up fulfilling the same function as one cap, several times as
>>>       
>> large
>>     
>>> (given that they are capacitances in parallel)?
>>>
>>>       
>> If they are at different locations, there must be a conductor between
>> them which has resistance and inductance.
>> So, for high frequencies, no they wouldn't .
>>     
>
> What do you mean by "high"?  Assuming the trace represents a resistor R = 1
> ohm (which is probably conservative), and the cap is C = 0.1uF, then this
> makes a low-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of about 1.6 MHz.  How does
> this help?
>   

What is meant by "high": anything with a fast switching transient - e.g. 
an LED that turns on and off at a rate of 1Hz will couple clicks into 
the power rails every 0.5s.

Think of it this way: PCB traces have some small resistance, and more 
importantly for high frequencies, some small inductance.  If you have no 
bypass caps then any high frequency current load (e.g. any kind of 
transistor or IC switching on and off, etc.) will create local changes 
in voltage on the power rails because of the resistance/inductance of 
the trace.  These changes in voltage can then couple into other parts of 
the circuit running off the same power rails.  By putting bypass caps 
right by the power pins of the IC the instantaneous current is drawn 
from the caps instead.  That's why it's also important to use the right 
type of cap - an electrolytic which has a high ESR would not do the job, 
you need something with low ESR like multilayer ceramic.

Aside from avoiding noise coupling between parts of the circuit, 
de-coupling caps also ensure things can switch on and off in a timely 
matter - this is of course essential for high frequency digital stuff, 
but also for stable operation of many analog ICs.

Admittedly if you're lucky you can get away without bypass caps in a lot 
of analog synth circuits, but given the cheapness and ease of sprinkling 
a few caps around, compared to the (sometimes subtle) array of problems 
it can cause to leave them out....

Seb




From klosmon at sbcglobal.net  Fri Mar 27 19:41:49 2009
From: klosmon at sbcglobal.net (klosmon)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:41:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CAT SRMII -- once more
Message-ID: <49CD1DED.1030206@sbcglobal.net>

Hola-
Does anyone have an accurate map of the trimmers for the SRMII?
I've given up on finding the schematics;  but the trimmer locations are 
radically different enough that trying to use the trimmer diagram for 
the SRM is turning out to be impossible.
I'm trying to avoid having to go in & (without schematics) 
reverse-engineer this thing;  I'll end up charging the customer more 
than the synth is worth.

Thanks.

~GMM


From matt at smiffytech.com  Fri Mar 27 22:40:19 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 08:10:19 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
In-Reply-To: <49CCFED6.1060909@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk>	<8DDE014F-7136-411D-ACB6-BD0E7C291CDF@willacy.co.uk>
	<49CCFED6.1060909@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49CD47C3.7070301@smiffytech.com>

OK, I don't like sliders, simple as that.  Rotating a knob better suits
the way I think (in circles?) and I find that I have much better
mechanical control over a knob than a slider.  (Holding the knob between
 finger and thumb, edge of hand resting on panel.)

Having said that, as far as the dust problem is concerned, how much room
to you have inside your panel?

Someone mentioned a dust-skirt.  If you have a sufficiently large panel,
with one slider's length free above and below the slider, you can put a
piece of card, plastic, etc., under the panel, attached to the slider
shaft.  Make this cover of sufficient length that it is covering the
entire track at each extreme of travel (making it just over twice as
long as the slider,) fold down the ends and sides and you will have a
labyrinth which will keep out all but the smallest and most penetrating
dust.

Completely impractical unless you've got the space either end of the
slider, but a possible solution for larger panels.

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From usenet at teply.info  Sat Mar 28 12:43:37 2009
From: usenet at teply.info (Florian Teply)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:43:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminium PCBs
In-Reply-To: <cf1e1cb10903270230t7e9dd8b4kde228195942ae569@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY141-W17DEF9C51630CABF696827F5910@phx.gbl>
	<DB65FA01BB9F448E90A47CA7384F14DE@cruncher2>
	<cf1e1cb10903270230t7e9dd8b4kde228195942ae569@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200903281243.37169.usenet@teply.info>

Am Freitag 27 M?rz 2009 10:30:08 schrieb cheater cheater:
> What's this 'loss' thing?
>
Umm, this is some effect in High frequency electronics: Isolators carrying 
electric fields, a common usage would be capacitors, but also transmission 
lines in high-frequency circuits, do so quite well at low frequencies (low 
being here somewhat below a couple hundred MHz). Basically it breaks down to 
the loss tangent of the dielectric material in question, which usually is 
somewhat frequency-dependent (that is, it's getting worse at higher 
frequencies). But at frequencies we're most likely to encounter in SDIY, this 
doesn't matter.
 
> Nick: do you think that they would be good for oscillators, to
> maintain thermal inertia?
>
I'm not Nick, but i'll drop in my 2 cents anyways ;-)
Thick Aluminum-clad PCBs are commonly used in High-Power LED stuff where one 
needs to get the heat away efficiently. AFAIK it doesn't add much thermal 
capacity though. My best bet would be some sort of oven heating for 
high-stability oscillators as is done in RF because that avoids tempreature 
change by actively heating to a constant tempreature somewhere above ambient 
temperature levels to be encountered during operation.

HTH,
Florian


From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 18:47:58 2009
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:47:58 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <49CD12AD.3070807@burnit.co.uk>
References: <0KH6007N6A7R7A@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<49CD12AD.3070807@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80903281047g1f222217hcb30cf32e2a99b85@mail.gmail.com>

H^) harry,

Can I ask, oh I just did ;) Well, You and Your twin-brother separated
at birth are well known advertisers of the capacitor industry..

What is this controlled impedance and snubber business, anyhow?

Is there some Rule of Thumb frequency to be handled by the circuit,
when rails needs to be analyzed as transmission lines rather than
ideal power?

Samppa


From electronicbattle at googlemail.com  Sat Mar 28 19:04:43 2009
From: electronicbattle at googlemail.com (Electronic Battle)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:04:43 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
References: <0KH6007N6A7R7A@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca><49CD12AD.3070807@burnit.co.uk>
	<fa1b0bd80903281047g1f222217hcb30cf32e2a99b85@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1D8DC377C444272B24C72D06A098E00@cruncher2>

> Is there some Rule of Thumb frequency to be handled by the circuit,
> when rails needs to be analyzed as transmission lines rather than
> ideal power?


Yes - when the length of the rails approaches the wavelength of the 
frequency of interest in the dielectric of interest ...

so at a frequency of (say) 40kHz, wavelength in air = 7500m , wavelength in 
dielectrics like PVC or polyethylene or fibreglass = maybe half of this 
value ...(1/root (epsilon)) if your power supply feeds down cables that are 
maybe a couple of kilometres long then it becomes an issue. Epsilon = 
relative permitivvity of 
dielctric:http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/coax.cfm

At frequencies of (say) 100MHz, wavelength is 3m ...400MHz = about 70cm, 
1GHz = 30cm: these lfrequencies "see" lengths of transmission line now and 
can be treated as such.

Just short out the lines with a low ESR (ceramic or polyester) capacitor of 
a few hundred nF in shunt to a larger smoothing cap of (say) 1 or 10uF.

EB



From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Sat Mar 28 19:29:27 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:29:27 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <49CD12AD.3070807@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0KH800FSIBD4IO@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Thanks to all for your replies.  I understood the basic idea about switching
transients.  I guess I'm just not convinced that putting the caps adjacent
to IC power pins is significantly better than putting them an inch or so
away on the power rail, near the ends of ICs.  I'd appreciate any comments
in this regard.  If it looks like this would make a significant difference,
then I might have to change my ways...

Cheers,
Dave

> David G. Dixon wrote:
> >>> However, something has been troubling me about these caps: If several
> of
> >>> them are connected between a rail and ground at various locations,
> >>>
> >> wouldn't
> >>
> >>> they end up fulfilling the same function as one cap, several times as
> >>>
> >> large
> >>
> >>> (given that they are capacitances in parallel)?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> If they are at different locations, there must be a conductor between
> >> them which has resistance and inductance.
> >> So, for high frequencies, no they wouldn't .
> >>
> >
> > What do you mean by "high"?  Assuming the trace represents a resistor R
> = 1
> > ohm (which is probably conservative), and the cap is C = 0.1uF, then
> this
> > makes a low-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of about 1.6 MHz.  How
> does
> > this help?
> >
> 
> What is meant by "high": anything with a fast switching transient - e.g.
> an LED that turns on and off at a rate of 1Hz will couple clicks into
> the power rails every 0.5s.
> 
> Think of it this way: PCB traces have some small resistance, and more
> importantly for high frequencies, some small inductance.  If you have no
> bypass caps then any high frequency current load (e.g. any kind of
> transistor or IC switching on and off, etc.) will create local changes
> in voltage on the power rails because of the resistance/inductance of
> the trace.  These changes in voltage can then couple into other parts of
> the circuit running off the same power rails.  By putting bypass caps
> right by the power pins of the IC the instantaneous current is drawn
> from the caps instead.  That's why it's also important to use the right
> type of cap - an electrolytic which has a high ESR would not do the job,
> you need something with low ESR like multilayer ceramic.
> 
> Aside from avoiding noise coupling between parts of the circuit,
> de-coupling caps also ensure things can switch on and off in a timely
> matter - this is of course essential for high frequency digital stuff,
> but also for stable operation of many analog ICs.
> 
> Admittedly if you're lucky you can get away without bypass caps in a lot
> of analog synth circuits, but given the cheapness and ease of sprinkling
> a few caps around, compared to the (sometimes subtle) array of problems
> it can cause to leave them out....
> 
> Seb




From nick.liebrecht at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 20:09:49 2009
From: nick.liebrecht at gmail.com (Nick Liebrecht)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:09:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Aluminium PCBs
In-Reply-To: <200903281243.37169.usenet@teply.info>
References: <BAY141-W17DEF9C51630CABF696827F5910@phx.gbl>
	<DB65FA01BB9F448E90A47CA7384F14DE@cruncher2>
	<cf1e1cb10903270230t7e9dd8b4kde228195942ae569@mail.gmail.com>
	<200903281243.37169.usenet@teply.info>
Message-ID: <de344b680903281209m280ba05cx70cbeaa0f14f3fdd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I agree 100% with Florian on this.  If you want stability and
excellent tracking, the oven works great.  My Serge oscillators, which
use an oven track each other over greater than 10 octaves (pos and neg
CVs) and they track 1 V/oct over at least 6 or 7.*

-Nick

*okay, so I may be a little biased, but I do speak the truth.

On 3/28/09, Florian Teply <usenet at teply.info> wrote:
> Am Freitag 27 M?rz 2009 10:30:08 schrieb cheater cheater:
>> What's this 'loss' thing?
>>
> Umm, this is some effect in High frequency electronics: Isolators carrying
> electric fields, a common usage would be capacitors, but also transmission
> lines in high-frequency circuits, do so quite well at low frequencies (low
> being here somewhat below a couple hundred MHz). Basically it breaks down to
> the loss tangent of the dielectric material in question, which usually is
> somewhat frequency-dependent (that is, it's getting worse at higher
> frequencies). But at frequencies we're most likely to encounter in SDIY,
> this
> doesn't matter.
>
>> Nick: do you think that they would be good for oscillators, to
>> maintain thermal inertia?
>>
> I'm not Nick, but i'll drop in my 2 cents anyways ;-)
> Thick Aluminum-clad PCBs are commonly used in High-Power LED stuff where one
> needs to get the heat away efficiently. AFAIK it doesn't add much thermal
> capacity though. My best bet would be some sort of oven heating for
> high-stability oscillators as is done in RF because that avoids tempreature
> change by actively heating to a constant tempreature somewhere above ambient
> temperature levels to be encountered during operation.
>
> HTH,
> Florian
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device



From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 20:19:13 2009
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:19:13 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <E1D8DC377C444272B24C72D06A098E00@cruncher2>
References: <0KH6007N6A7R7A@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<49CD12AD.3070807@burnit.co.uk>
	<fa1b0bd80903281047g1f222217hcb30cf32e2a99b85@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1D8DC377C444272B24C72D06A098E00@cruncher2>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80903281219p13c6035dre0bd74625182a0ef@mail.gmail.com>

EB is no H^) harry ;)

> Yes - when the length of the rails approaches the wavelength of the
> frequency of interest in the dielectric of interest ...
>

I was more after the Q. When the board level realization has to deal
with various L(ES)RC combinations with different local self-resonant
points and exciters. Sorry, I mixed frequency into this, rise time is
much better in terms.

Samppa


From danjel at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 23:11:21 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:11:21 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903281511r6e14e1fdw991fadbf99302bf9@mail.gmail.com>

I pulled my mks-30 out of the closet and found that it is no longer
working %100. The synth works perfectly until I turn the chorus on.
With chorus engaged the output is distorted and I hear a loud hum.

I can find schematics for every part of the mks-30 except for the
power board that has the chorus circuit on it.

Has anyone experienced a simmilar problem and know how to fix this?
Maybe they have a scan of the schematic?

In exploring the synth which has 6 perfectly working 80017A chips I am
wondering if this synth is worth more as parts then as a working
synth? For example the the 80017A chips sell for $60 each x 6 = 360USD
 while the average mks-30 only sells for about $275.

cheers,
Danjel


From dixon at interchange.ubc.ca  Sat Mar 28 23:54:19 2009
From: dixon at interchange.ubc.ca (David G. Dixon)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:54:19 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903281511r6e14e1fdw991fadbf99302bf9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0KH80024CNMKMS@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>

Danjel,

The solution is simple: stop putting your synths in the closet!  ;->

David G. Dixon
Professor
Department of Materials Engineering
University of British Columbia
309-6350 Stores Road
Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
Canada
 
Tel 1-604-822-3679
Fax 1-604-822-3619
 
"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
 
The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Danjel van Tijn
> Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 3:11 PM
> To: synthdiy DIY
> Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
> 
> I pulled my mks-30 out of the closet and found that it is no longer
> working %100. The synth works perfectly until I turn the chorus on.
> With chorus engaged the output is distorted and I hear a loud hum.
> 
> I can find schematics for every part of the mks-30 except for the
> power board that has the chorus circuit on it.
> 
> Has anyone experienced a simmilar problem and know how to fix this?
> Maybe they have a scan of the schematic?
> 
> In exploring the synth which has 6 perfectly working 80017A chips I am
> wondering if this synth is worth more as parts then as a working
> synth? For example the the 80017A chips sell for $60 each x 6 = 360USD
>  while the average mks-30 only sells for about $275.
> 
> cheers,
> Danjel
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 29 00:11:11 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:11:11 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903281511r6e14e1fdw991fadbf99302bf9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <439ccfd90903281511r6e14e1fdw991fadbf99302bf9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W283E11812BAFAAB6BC2A80C88F0@phx.gbl>


please dont start hacking apart working synths for parts!!


is money really important enough to start meaning we have less working synth history?

just a thought

thanks




--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:11:21 -0700
> From: danjel at gmail.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
>
> I pulled my mks-30 out of the closet and found that it is no longer
> working %100. The synth works perfectly until I turn the chorus on.
> With chorus engaged the output is distorted and I hear a loud hum.
>
> I can find schematics for every part of the mks-30 except for the
> power board that has the chorus circuit on it.
>
> Has anyone experienced a simmilar problem and know how to fix this?
> Maybe they have a scan of the schematic?
>
> In exploring the synth which has 6 perfectly working 80017A chips I am
> wondering if this synth is worth more as parts then as a working
> synth? For example the the 80017A chips sell for $60 each x 6 = 360USD
> while the average mks-30 only sells for about $275.
>
> cheers,
> Danjel
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jason at redfish.net  Sun Mar 29 00:15:10 2009
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:15:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903281511r6e14e1fdw991fadbf99302bf9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <439ccfd90903281511r6e14e1fdw991fadbf99302bf9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a06200749c5f45d0815be@[10.0.1.2]>

i found the jx-3p schems easy enough and then cross-referenced the 
chorus chips with bob's site - the BBD chips are mn3009 and mn3101. 
senso has these for E18 and E3 respectively.

ISTR reports of other Roland synths needing replacement BBDs a while 
back? a 5 minute search didn't bring anything obvious up.

either way, parting out a mostly working instrument angers the synth 
gods, so don't do that.


>I pulled my mks-30 out of the closet and found that it is no longer
>working %100. The synth works perfectly until I turn the chorus on.
>With chorus engaged the output is distorted and I hear a loud hum.
>
>I can find schematics for every part of the mks-30 except for the
>power board that has the chorus circuit on it.
>
>Has anyone experienced a simmilar problem and know how to fix this?
>Maybe they have a scan of the schematic?
>
>In exploring the synth which has 6 perfectly working 80017A chips I am
>wondering if this synth is worth more as parts then as a working
>synth? For example the the 80017A chips sell for $60 each x 6 = 360USD
>  while the average mks-30 only sells for about $275.
>
>cheers,
>Danjel
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From danjel at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 00:21:02 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:21:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W283E11812BAFAAB6BC2A80C88F0@phx.gbl>
References: <439ccfd90903281511r6e14e1fdw991fadbf99302bf9@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY144-W283E11812BAFAAB6BC2A80C88F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903281621o514448a3m25daf8ab91398f7e@mail.gmail.com>

> please dont start hacking apart working synths for parts!!
>
well it is not a fully working synth. The chorus does not work and
maybe that is a symptom of some other problem. Obviously I want to fix
it or I wouldn't have posted it but if I can't and I have a choice of
selling it for a $100 becuase it is not working properly or selling it
for $360 worth of parts what do you think I will choose to do?

Also the chips that come out of it would be going towards restoring
other synths that are not working.

I have a Oberheim Matrix 6R that is facing a simmilar fate. It will
turn on but will not respond to midi and after many hours off
debugging I have not been able to determine the problem. I have
offered this to many people for sale as a project synth but no one has
been interested. So it either sits gathering dust or I could takke the
voice chips out and sell those for more than the broken synth is
worth.

cheers,
    Danjel


>
> is money really important enough to start meaning we have less working synth history?
>
> just a thought
>
> thanks
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> check out various dan music at:
>
> http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>
> (updated monthly)
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>
>
>
> http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>
> (or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>
> ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>
> AUDIO ARK:
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:11:21 -0700
>> From: danjel at gmail.com
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
>>
>> I pulled my mks-30 out of the closet and found that it is no longer
>> working %100. The synth works perfectly until I turn the chorus on.
>> With chorus engaged the output is distorted and I hear a loud hum.
>>
>> I can find schematics for every part of the mks-30 except for the
>> power board that has the chorus circuit on it.
>>
>> Has anyone experienced a simmilar problem and know how to fix this?
>> Maybe they have a scan of the schematic?
>>
>> In exploring the synth which has 6 perfectly working 80017A chips I am
>> wondering if this synth is worth more as parts then as a working
>> synth? For example the the 80017A chips sell for $60 each x 6 = 360USD
>> while the average mks-30 only sells for about $275.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Danjel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sun Mar 29 00:40:35 2009
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:40:35 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
In-Reply-To: <0KH80024CNMKMS@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KH80024CNMKMS@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49CEB573.1010508@imt.net>

Hehe.. that's a for sure.  I've bought so many that allegedly were just 
put in the closet.  Read the sounddoctorin.com page on the prophet 5 for 
one such example.  Goes to show that rodents come in all sizes.  
Microchip rodents often burrow into the substrates where they make their 
nests.... but as long as you keep energizing the chips intermittently it 
prevents them from pursuing this as they always 'case the joint' ... or 
joints in this case..for some time to make sure no rapid thermal 
variations occur; something which they cannot tolerate in their happy 
homes.

btw I'll post the section of the diagram that is missing unless someone 
knows a resource that has it.  Actually it seems the links on my page 
for 'far too good' which used to have it are gone.  -Bob

David G. Dixon wrote:

>Danjel,
>
>The solution is simple: stop putting your synths in the closet!  ;->
>
>David G. Dixon
>Professor
>Department of Materials Engineering
>University of British Columbia
>309-6350 Stores Road
>Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4
>Canada
> 
>Tel 1-604-822-3679
>Fax 1-604-822-3619
> 
>"PERFECTA FINGAMUS SERVIAT NATURA"
> 
>The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and
>intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s).  It
>must not be disclosed to any person without the writer's authority.  If you
>are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to
>the intended recipient, you are not authorized to and must not disclose,
>copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
>>bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Danjel van Tijn
>>Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 3:11 PM
>>To: synthdiy DIY
>>Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
>>
>>I pulled my mks-30 out of the closet and found that it is no longer
>>working %100. The synth works perfectly until I turn the chorus on.
>>With chorus engaged the output is distorted and I hear a loud hum.
>>
>>I can find schematics for every part of the mks-30 except for the
>>power board that has the chorus circuit on it.
>>
>>Has anyone experienced a simmilar problem and know how to fix this?
>>Maybe they have a scan of the schematic?
>>
>>In exploring the synth which has 6 perfectly working 80017A chips I am
>>wondering if this synth is worth more as parts then as a working
>>synth? For example the the 80017A chips sell for $60 each x 6 = 360USD
>> while the average mks-30 only sells for about $275.
>>
>>cheers,
>>Danjel
>>_______________________________________________
>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sun Mar 29 00:52:54 2009
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:52:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
In-Reply-To: <a06200749c5f45d0815be@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <439ccfd90903281511r6e14e1fdw991fadbf99302bf9@mail.gmail.com>
	<a06200749c5f45d0815be@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <49CEB856.6090602@imt.net>

PS I have NOS chips also in the US.  At the time I was figuring what I 
should charge it looked like a lot of valitility in the market and I 
wasn't sure what to charge.  I think after time I have enough stock and 
they move slow enough to put $20.00 on them.  The 3101 I had 6.50 on and 
I can't recall how I arrived at that price at all. 

Anyway the less seen part of my page is under the 'parts' link with 
'semiconductor' link from the main sounddoctorin.com/synthtec/synth.htm 
page.  I also recently got a large quantity OF POLYSIX RAM!!  Will make 
quantity deals on those for anyone who wants to build expanders for a 
ps6 etc. Some yamaha's use those chips too I noticed.. can't recall 
which device it was. -Bob

Jason Proctor wrote:

> i found the jx-3p schems easy enough and then cross-referenced the 
> chorus chips with bob's site - the BBD chips are mn3009 and mn3101. 
> senso has these for E18 and E3 respectively.
>
> ISTR reports of other Roland synths needing replacement BBDs a while 
> back? a 5 minute search didn't bring anything obvious up.
>
> either way, parting out a mostly working instrument angers the synth 
> gods, so don't do that.
>
>
>> I pulled my mks-30 out of the closet and found that it is no longer
>> working %100. The synth works perfectly until I turn the chorus on.
>> With chorus engaged the output is distorted and I hear a loud hum.
>>
>> I can find schematics for every part of the mks-30 except for the
>> power board that has the chorus circuit on it.
>>
>> Has anyone experienced a simmilar problem and know how to fix this?
>> Maybe they have a scan of the schematic?
>>
>> In exploring the synth which has 6 perfectly working 80017A chips I am
>> wondering if this synth is worth more as parts then as a working
>> synth? For example the the 80017A chips sell for $60 each x 6 = 360USD
>>  while the average mks-30 only sells for about $275.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Danjel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Sun Mar 29 00:54:07 2009
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:54:07 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903281621o514448a3m25daf8ab91398f7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <439ccfd90903281511r6e14e1fdw991fadbf99302bf9@mail.gmail.com>	<BAY144-W283E11812BAFAAB6BC2A80C88F0@phx.gbl>
	<439ccfd90903281621o514448a3m25daf8ab91398f7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CEB89F.1000308@imt.net>

PS I might be interested int he oberheim. How much did you want for it? -Bob

Danjel van Tijn wrote:

>>please dont start hacking apart working synths for parts!!
>>
>>    
>>
>well it is not a fully working synth. The chorus does not work and
>maybe that is a symptom of some other problem. Obviously I want to fix
>it or I wouldn't have posted it but if I can't and I have a choice of
>selling it for a $100 becuase it is not working properly or selling it
>for $360 worth of parts what do you think I will choose to do?
>
>Also the chips that come out of it would be going towards restoring
>other synths that are not working.
>
>I have a Oberheim Matrix 6R that is facing a simmilar fate. It will
>turn on but will not respond to midi and after many hours off
>debugging I have not been able to determine the problem. I have
>offered this to many people for sale as a project synth but no one has
>been interested. So it either sits gathering dust or I could takke the
>voice chips out and sell those for more than the broken synth is
>worth.
>
>cheers,
>    Danjel
>
>
>  
>
>>is money really important enough to start meaning we have less working synth history?
>>
>>just a thought
>>
>>thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------
>>check out various dan music at:
>>
>>http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
>>
>>(updated monthly)
>>
>>http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
>>
>>(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
>>
>>ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:
>>
>>AUDIO ARK:
>>
>>www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic
>>
>>www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page
>>
>>www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------
>>    
>>
>>>Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:11:21 -0700
>>>From: danjel at gmail.com
>>>To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>Subject: [sdiy] broken chorus on mks-30
>>>
>>>I pulled my mks-30 out of the closet and found that it is no longer
>>>working %100. The synth works perfectly until I turn the chorus on.
>>>With chorus engaged the output is distorted and I hear a loud hum.
>>>
>>>I can find schematics for every part of the mks-30 except for the
>>>power board that has the chorus circuit on it.
>>>
>>>Has anyone experienced a simmilar problem and know how to fix this?
>>>Maybe they have a scan of the schematic?
>>>
>>>In exploring the synth which has 6 perfectly working 80017A chips I am
>>>wondering if this synth is worth more as parts then as a working
>>>synth? For example the the 80017A chips sell for $60 each x 6 = 360USD
>>>while the average mks-30 only sells for about $275.
>>>
>>>cheers,
>>>Danjel
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>      
>>>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>  
>


From rtellason at verizon.net  Sun Mar 29 01:00:25 2009
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:00:25 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <SNT104-W21006C8576AB905C139FEBB48E0@phx.gbl>
References: <49CC7D50.4010209@xs4all.nl>
	<0KH6007N6A7R7A@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
	<SNT104-W21006C8576AB905C139FEBB48E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200903282000.26212.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Friday 27 March 2009 01:46:17 pm Scott Nordlund wrote:
> You're thinking about it the wrong way.  High frequency signals (hopefully)
> aren't emanating from the power supply to the rest of the circuit.
>
> Switching in a CMOS circuit will cause a transient spike in the current
> supplied to the chip.  

Not nearly as much as switching  in a TTL chip will.

> Parasitic inductance or long leads in the power supply lines will limit how
> quickly the power supply can respond to this,  leading to a local drop in
> supply voltage.  This enters nearby circuits via the power rails and can
> cause noise, glitches, etc..  A decoupling capacitor on the power leads of
> each chip will stabilize the power during these transient conditions and
> limit their affect on other parts of the circuit.
>
> Or you could think about it this way: decoupling caps provide a low
> impedance path to ground for high frequency signals (noise).

Another aspect to consider is the self-resonant frequency of the high-value 
capacitors in power supplies,  and for board decoupling (as opposed to chip 
decoupling).  I've been known to use a 1000uF electrolytic with a 1uF 
tantalum across it and a 10nF ceramic disc across _that_ just in the power 
supply of stuff I've built.

And lots of decoupling caps all over the place.

If they weren't really all that necessary the bean counters would have phased 
them out of much commercial gear by now,  and I still see them all over the 
place.


-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From rtellason at verizon.net  Sun Mar 29 01:03:30 2009
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:03:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Thoughts on sliders...
In-Reply-To: <49CD47C3.7070301@smiffytech.com>
References: <49CCB323.1050302@bugbrand.co.uk> <49CCFED6.1060909@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<49CD47C3.7070301@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <200903282003.31182.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Friday 27 March 2009 05:40:19 pm Matthew Smith wrote:
> OK, I don't like sliders, simple as that.  Rotating a knob better suits
> the way I think (in circles?) and I find that I have much better
> mechanical control over a knob than a slider.  (Holding the knob between
>  finger and thumb, edge of hand resting on panel.)
>
> Having said that, as far as the dust problem is concerned, how much room
> to you have inside your panel?
>
> Someone mentioned a dust-skirt.  If you have a sufficiently large panel,
> with one slider's length free above and below the slider, you can put a
> piece of card, plastic, etc., under the panel, attached to the slider
> shaft.  Make this cover of sufficient length that it is covering the
> entire track at each extreme of travel (making it just over twice as
> long as the slider,) fold down the ends and sides and you will have a
> labyrinth which will keep out all but the smallest and most penetrating
> dust.
>
> Completely impractical unless you've got the space either end of the
> slider, but a possible solution for larger panels.

Not thinking in circles much here,  are you...?

How about a bit of flexible plastic stuff,  used as you mention but forming a 
loop around the body of the slider?  It'd have to avoid the terminals,  but 
other than that it seems workable to me.



-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From rtellason at verizon.net  Sun Mar 29 01:07:22 2009
From: rtellason at verizon.net (Roy J. Tellason)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:07:22 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <0KH800FSIBD4IO@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KH800FSIBD4IO@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <200903282007.23293.rtellason@verizon.net>

On Saturday 28 March 2009 02:29:27 pm David G. Dixon wrote:
> Thanks to all for your replies.  I understood the basic idea about
> switching transients.  I guess I'm just not convinced that putting the caps
> adjacent to IC power pins is significantly better than putting them an inch
> or so away on the power rail, near the ends of ICs.  I'd appreciate any
> comments in this regard.  If it looks like this would make a significant
> difference, then I might have to change my ways...
>
> Cheers,
> Dave

Well,  if you want something to _look_ at...

My Tek scope came with detachable ground leads for the probes,  of two 
different lengths.  The longer one was convenient for a lot of stuff and the 
shorter ones for those times it made a difference.  Or you could omit that 
altogether and let the third prong of the power connector do the job,  at 
some risk to the quality of the waveform that you're looking at.

If you have a scope,  try looking at some waveforms at different points along 
the same trace,  or use different ground connections,  or similar stuff.  
You'll see a difference.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin


From danjel at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 01:43:03 2009
From: danjel at gmail.com (Danjel van Tijn)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:43:03 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] wtb: 2 x mn3009 and 2 x MN3101
Message-ID: <439ccfd90903281743r4a8a12b2o9be1aa4a5fb94d6f@mail.gmail.com>

Looking for a pair of mn3009 and mn3101 chips to fix my mks30 chorus.
I am located in Canada.

cheers,
Danjel


From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 29 03:00:52 2009
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:00:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] wtb: 2 x mn3009 and 2 x MN3101
In-Reply-To: <439ccfd90903281743r4a8a12b2o9be1aa4a5fb94d6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <659837.74951.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Hi, I have them in stock.

www.synthparts.com

--- On Sat, 3/28/09, Danjel van Tijn <danjel at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Danjel van Tijn <danjel at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sdiy] wtb: 2 x mn3009 and 2 x MN3101
> To: "ahlist" <ahlist at gmail.com>, "synthdiy DIY" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Saturday, March 28, 2009, 5:43 PM
> Looking for a pair of mn3009 and mn3101 chips to fix my
> mks30 chorus.
> I am located in Canada.
> 
> cheers,
> Danjel
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 29 08:26:25 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 06:26:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
Message-ID: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>



Ok

first please dont make fun of me for being cautious. i have a toddler and a infant and i dont want anything dangerous in their home.

i hate to be paranoid but in the last few weeks there has been a very strange Plastic like scent in my shop. (which is next to our living room)
a sort of burnt plastic smell. i have been searching for weeks for the source with no luck.

tonight i went to get out my etchant and something seemed wrong.....the top wouldnt open but was also strangely covered in goo and the bottle looked like something had made it suck in quite a bit

and then i noticed my hand had a chemical 

now i have no idea if the 2 are even connected. but i dont like to think that something gaseous could have been  leaking out of this bottle.
last time i used the bottle, i dumped the etchant back into the bottle, just like i do every time. maybe there is too much copper in there or something?

i feel like an idiot (as usual)

so

1. could this be the cause of the plastic scent?
2. how dangerous is it that i have been working in this room for weeks?


thanks





From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 29 08:40:14 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 06:40:14 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W52018DAFAD59DE1656C535C88C0@phx.gbl>


yes i feel stupid as the more i read about this stuff it seems unlikely this is the problem.
one problem with this 'shop" is that it is a tiny tiny room. with a giant radiator. so the room gets very very hot.

i just wonder if something in the room is reacting to the constant heat.

the only odd chemical was the etchant and the nail polish remover.
other than that there are just thousands of caps, resistors, pots, computers, my modular, empty tins and boxes for projects, bin after bin of stuff,etc.

i keep all food out.

so with this many items in a small , hot, room, when an all pervading plasticy scent comes to  town, what do you do? take out every last electronic component and see if the problem is solved?


time for bed









--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> From: subjectivity at hotmail.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 06:26:25 +0000
> Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
>
>
>
> Ok
>
> first please dont make fun of me for being cautious. i have a toddler and a infant and i dont want anything dangerous in their home.
>
> i hate to be paranoid but in the last few weeks there has been a very strange Plastic like scent in my shop. (which is next to our living room)
> a sort of burnt plastic smell. i have been searching for weeks for the source with no luck.
>
> tonight i went to get out my etchant and something seemed wrong.....the top wouldnt open but was also strangely covered in goo and the bottle looked like something had made it suck in quite a bit
>
> and then i noticed my hand had a chemical
>
> now i have no idea if the 2 are even connected. but i dont like to think that something gaseous could have been leaking out of this bottle.
> last time i used the bottle, i dumped the etchant back into the bottle, just like i do every time. maybe there is too much copper in there or something?
>
> i feel like an idiot (as usual)
>
> so
>
> 1. could this be the cause of the plastic scent?
> 2. how dangerous is it that i have been working in this room for weeks?
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dingebre at 3dphysics.net  Sun Mar 29 09:01:06 2009
From: dingebre at 3dphysics.net (David Ingebretsen)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 01:01:06 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <002801c9b03c$22369aa0$66a3cfe0$@net>

The place where you bought it has to have a MSDS (Material Safety Data
Sheet) by law. Call them Monday and ask for it. It will tell you exactly
what is in the chemical, the hazards, and safe handling.

You should always have adequate ventilation when working with caustic
chemicals, along with goggles, and gloves. 

I would suggest storing the chemicals somewhere else than in the living
quarters of your home/apartment.

Not knowing exactly what the chemical is, it's hard to say if the fumes you
smell are from it or something else and what potential harm they may
inflict.

David


David M. Ingebretsen M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Engineering, Inc.
2469 East Fort Union Blvd. STE 114
Salt Lake City, UT 84121
www.CFandE.com

801 733-5458 Office
801 842-5451 Cell

dingebre at CFandE.com
dingebre at 3dphysics.net



-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dan Snazelle
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:26 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???



Ok

first please dont make fun of me for being cautious. i have a toddler and a
infant and i dont want anything dangerous in their home.

i hate to be paranoid but in the last few weeks there has been a very
strange Plastic like scent in my shop. (which is next to our living room)
a sort of burnt plastic smell. i have been searching for weeks for the
source with no luck.

tonight i went to get out my etchant and something seemed wrong.....the top
wouldnt open but was also strangely covered in goo and the bottle looked
like something had made it suck in quite a bit

and then i noticed my hand had a chemical 

now i have no idea if the 2 are even connected. but i dont like to think
that something gaseous could have been  leaking out of this bottle.
last time i used the bottle, i dumped the etchant back into the bottle, just
like i do every time. maybe there is too much copper in there or something?

i feel like an idiot (as usual)

so

1. could this be the cause of the plastic scent?
2. how dangerous is it that i have been working in this room for weeks?


thanks



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun Mar 29 12:36:41 2009
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:36:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DB9762EA-FCB6-4491-AEE1-E7470D1A7CE0@electricdruid.net>


On 29 Mar 2009, at 07:26, Dan Snazelle wrote:
> i hate to be paranoid but in the last few weeks there has been a  
> very strange Plastic like scent in my shop. (which is next to our  
> living room)
> a sort of burnt plastic smell. i have been searching for weeks for  
> the source with no luck.

Every time I've smelled a sort of burnt plastic smell, it was because  
there was some plastic burning somewhere. Sorry, I'm not taking the  
mickey, but it is usually that simple.
The most recent example was a strange plasticky smell in our car when  
the ventilation was on. The car is old and has a number of "quirks"  
including not starting correctly. Then it began to do a very strange  
thing where the electronics in the instrument cluster would "crash".  
It proved to be possible to reset this by turning the headlights on  
(no, seriously...).
An ex-mechanic friend of ours tracked this down to a failed  
alternator. It was over-charging the battery almost 20V. The  
excessive voltage was crashing the instrument cluster, and turning  
the headlights on provided enough load to pull the voltage back down  
to a safe level. The funny plasticky smell turned out to be the  
battery. It didn't like the extra voltage at all and would get hot  
and had started to swell. If left, they can explode.

So, I think you need to be looking for plastic items that could  
feasibly get hot - power supplies maybe? Things dropped down the back  
of the radiator?

In short, I think etchant is unlikely to be the source of the smell.  
Usual rules apply where there are small kids about though - have you  
got any bits of wall left where you can put a high shelf?!


Good luck tracking it down,
Tom




From simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl  Sun Mar 29 12:58:36 2009
From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl (Simon Brouwer)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:58:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W52018DAFAD59DE1656C535C88C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
	<BAY144-W52018DAFAD59DE1656C535C88C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49CF545C.3010105@xs4all.nl>

Dan Snazelle schreef:
> yes i feel stupid as the more i read about this stuff it seems unlikely this is the problem.
> one problem with this 'shop" is that it is a tiny tiny room. with a giant radiator. so the room gets very very hot.
>   
Only if the radiator is on. Why is it on?

-- 
Vriendelijke groet, 
Simon Brouwer. 

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |



From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 13:32:44 2009
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:32:44 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80903290432x73db6874ve731598679cecabb@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

What might be the etchant?

Samppa


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 29 16:44:58 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:44:58 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <49CF545C.3010105@xs4all.nl>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
	<BAY144-W52018DAFAD59DE1656C535C88C0@phx.gbl>
	<49CF545C.3010105@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W55E45D3F15CDC44A74A16DC88C0@phx.gbl>



sadly the landlord hasnt turned it off yet and there is NO thermostat

i will check today with a fine tooth comb as it has become UNBEARABLE

and there is work to be DONE!~~


thanks


(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:58:36 +0200
> From: simon.oo.o at xs4all.nl
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
>
> Dan Snazelle schreef:
>> yes i feel stupid as the more i read about this stuff it seems unlikely this is the problem.
>> one problem with this 'shop" is that it is a tiny tiny room. with a giant radiator. so the room gets very very hot.
>>
> Only if the radiator is on. Why is it on?
>
> --
> Vriendelijke groet,
> Simon Brouwer.
>
> | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 29 16:47:09 2009
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:47:09 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80903290432x73db6874ve731598679cecabb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
	<fa1b0bd80903290432x73db6874ve731598679cecabb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY144-W153E5CBEF04E54CABAA757C88C0@phx.gbl>




ferric chloride


thanks




--------------------------------------------
check out various dan music at:

http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc

(updated monthly)

http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm



http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle

(or for techno) http://www.myspace.com/snazelle

ALSO check out Dan synth/Fx projects:

AUDIO ARK:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRpvaOcUic

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqIa_lXQNTA&feature=channel_page

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nJPjGgOcU&feature=channel_page







----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:32:44 +0300
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
> From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com
> To: subjectivity at hotmail.com
> CC: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Dan Snazelle wrote:
>
> What might be the etchant?
>
> Samppa



From seb at burnit.co.uk  Sun Mar 29 17:08:19 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:08:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] filter cap needed?
In-Reply-To: <0KH800FSIBD4IO@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <0KH800FSIBD4IO@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <49CF8EE3.1010204@burnit.co.uk>

David G. Dixon wrote:
> Thanks to all for your replies.  I understood the basic idea about switching
> transients.  I guess I'm just not convinced that putting the caps adjacent
> to IC power pins is significantly better than putting them an inch or so
> away on the power rail, near the ends of ICs.  I'd appreciate any comments
> in this regard.  If it looks like this would make a significant difference,
> then I might have to change my ways...
>   

I doubt an inch will make any difference for analog stuff with 
reasonably sized traces.

I assume you're talking about thru-hole, so another way is to solder a 
little axial multi-layer ceramic across the power pins on the back of 
the board.  I believe you can also get IC sockets with de-coupling caps 
built in.

For SMT designs it's usually easy just to put a small chip capacitor 
right by the power pins.

Seb





From samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 18:52:40 2009
From: samppa.tolvanen at gmail.com (Samppa Tolvanen)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 19:52:40 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W153E5CBEF04E54CABAA757C88C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
	<fa1b0bd80903290432x73db6874ve731598679cecabb@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY144-W153E5CBEF04E54CABAA757C88C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <fa1b0bd80903290952o3f0e45afgc0c9361762106d41@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> ferric chloride
>

 Hey,

That's what I use to make Bloody Marys taste more bloody! It's
definitely unkeen to attack You or Your loved ones or any plastics.
Just be sure to handle it with care as the stains it leaves are
semipermanent.

Samppa


From blacet at blacet.com  Sun Mar 29 19:09:51 2009
From: blacet at blacet.com (John Blacet)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 10:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <fa1b0bd80903290952o3f0e45afgc0c9361762106d41@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
	<fa1b0bd80903290432x73db6874ve731598679cecabb@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY144-W153E5CBEF04E54CABAA757C88C0@phx.gbl>
	<fa1b0bd80903290952o3f0e45afgc0c9361762106d41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9a27a3fd9fe44c5cfe7009884002bcc.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net>

--Nasty, smelly, corrosive, filled with toxic copper salts when used! Have
professionals make your boards if at all affordable! Not to mention
drilling that cancerous fiberglass.



> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Dan Snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> ferric chloride
>>
>
>  Hey,
>
> That's what I use to make Bloody Marys taste more bloody! It's
> definitely unkeen to attack You or Your loved ones or any plastics.
> Just be sure to handle it with care as the stains it leaves are
> semipermanent.
>
> Samppa
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


-- 
John Blacet



From raywilson at comcast.net  Sun Mar 29 20:00:09 2009
From: raywilson at comcast.net (Ray Wilson)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:00:09 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <735CF060C809444597DA9AB9193A36BF@RaymondLabPC>

The main nasty ingredient in ferric choloride is hydrochloric acid. It is 
the checmical that gives the solution it's bite. I have breathed ALOT of 
ferric chloride (in solution with water) fumes it over my life (the powder 
will eat your lings, avoid breathing it at all costs) and I'm still here. 
Short exposure to fumes leaking from a spent bottle will probably not do 
permanent (if any) damage. I believe no damage actually.

It is impossible to get the stains off of anything it touches. You can 
neutralize spent ferric choride with a caustic chemical like sodium 
hydroxide (found in many drain cleaning products). It will foam and possibly 
spatter when brought in contact with it. AVOID contact with ferric chloride 
or sodium hydroxide because either of them will eat your skin. They are 
chemical opposites (acid and base). WEAR GOGGLES when goofing with the 
stuff. If you have kids DO NOT KEEP IT ANYWHERE THEY CAN GET THERE LITTLE 
HANDS ON IT.

I am not a chemist just a person that has spent quite a bit of time with 
both chemicals.

Good luck finding the burning plastic smell.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Snazelle" <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
To: <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:26 AM
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???


>
>
> Ok
>
> first please dont make fun of me for being cautious. i have a toddler and 
> a infant and i dont want anything dangerous in their home.
>
> i hate to be paranoid but in the last few weeks there has been a very 
> strange Plastic like scent in my shop. (which is next to our living room)
> a sort of burnt plastic smell. i have been searching for weeks for the 
> source with no luck.
>
> tonight i went to get out my etchant and something seemed wrong.....the 
> top wouldnt open but was also strangely covered in goo and the bottle 
> looked like something had made it suck in quite a bit
>
> and then i noticed my hand had a chemical
>
> now i have no idea if the 2 are even connected. but i dont like to think 
> that something gaseous could have been  leaking out of this bottle.
> last time i used the bottle, i dumped the etchant back into the bottle, 
> just like i do every time. maybe there is too much copper in there or 
> something?
>
> i feel like an idiot (as usual)
>
> so
>
> 1. could this be the cause of the plastic scent?
> 2. how dangerous is it that i have been working in this room for weeks?
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From matt at smiffytech.com  Sun Mar 29 22:09:04 2009
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 06:39:04 +1030
Subject: [sdiy] uh-oh..etchant saftey???
In-Reply-To: <735CF060C809444597DA9AB9193A36BF@RaymondLabPC>
References: <BAY144-W84AA8CD3C69A4C6ED3F9FC88C0@phx.gbl>
	<735CF060C809444597DA9AB9193A36BF@RaymondLabPC>
Message-ID: <49CFD560.70208@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Ray Wilson at 2009-03-30 04:30...
> The main nasty ingredient in ferric choloride is hydrochloric acid. It is 
> the checmical that gives the solution it's bite. I have breathed ALOT of 
> ferric chloride (in solution with water) fumes it over my life (the powder 
> will eat your lings, avoid breathing it at all costs) and I'm still here. 
> Short exposure to fumes leaking from a spent bottle will probably not do 
> permanent (if any) damage. I believe no damage actually.
...

It's yucky stuff, eats cotton fabrics as well if it touches them.

I used to use ferric chloride for etching.  Could never see through it
to tell what was going on, stained like you wouldn't believe - so never
again.

I've changed my chemistry completely - using sodium metasilicate for
developing (far less fierce than sodium hydroxide which can overdevelop
very easily if too concentrated, warm, etc) and ammonium persulphate for
etching - far less nasty.

As it happens, I made 4 boards (sorry, not SDIY related) yesterday -
first time using my new Kinsten bubble etch tank.  SO much easier than a
rocker dish!

So, from a hazard point of view, none of these are nice (but not
terrible), all should be kept away from children (and pets) but then
again there are worse things in the house such as hypochlorite bleaches,
caustic soda (sodium hydroxide), etc.  And there's no way that etching
chemicals would be making a burning plastic smell.

If in a single-storey house, check the roofspace for the source of the
smell.  I'd be worried about ANY burning smells in case they are a fire
in the making.

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith
Smiffytech - Technology Consulting & Web Application Development
Business:      http://www.smiffytech.com/
Blog/personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/
LinkedIn:      http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Skype:         msmiffy
Twitter:       @smiffytech


From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Mar 30 01:32:45 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 01:32:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Living VCOs first audio demo
Message-ID: <FEF29721A3E64307BF390927ADE1D821@jhsilent>

First audio demo! 

13.5 MByte mp3 

First dry: just VCOs thru VCA. 
Then VCOs thru SSM2040 filter, VCA and Reverb. 

http://www.jhaible.de/living_vcos/living_vcos%20_1.mp3 

Picture from the testbench: 
http://www.jhaible.de/living_vcos/jh_living_vcos.html 

JH.



From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 30 03:15:19 2009
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 18:15:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
Message-ID: <199292.68294.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Hi, I've got a few Roland "white dot" (superior linearity and low freq response) CEM3340s in stock now. CEM3360s are back in stock too.

Thanks
http://www.synthparts.com/



From julian at port23.co.uk  Mon Mar 30 03:21:45 2009
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 02:21:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] WTD: 5-off CEM 3381
Message-ID: <F575BDFA6F0A4282AA8825BCCA11F71F@legba>

Appologies to those who have read this on the ah list:

I have a couple of pcbs that ive had lurking on the shelves for ages, and they require some 3381 CEM ics.

I'm hoping someone may have a few knocking about?

Thanks, Julian


From julian at port23.co.uk  Mon Mar 30 03:43:00 2009
From: julian at port23.co.uk (Julian)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 02:43:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Roland tr-909 jack type?
Message-ID: <B04438D3FF5D42D1ADE0704D089169A8@legba>

Someone would like me to have a go at some problematic jacks on their 909 -

Just in case they actually need replacing, im just wondering if theyre of the same type as used on the tb-303 / tr-606?  From the 
few grainy photos ive found on the web, they certainly dont look like the tr-808 type...

Indeed, they could be neither!

Could anyone advise?

Thanks, Julian
 



From tom.adam at thebigear.be  Mon Mar 30 09:28:58 2009
From: tom.adam at thebigear.be (Tom Adam)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 09:28:58 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [motm] Living VCOs first audio demo
In-Reply-To: <FEF29721A3E64307BF390927ADE1D821@jhsilent>
References: <FEF29721A3E64307BF390927ADE1D821@jhsilent>
Message-ID: <20090330072858.393BB2C0069B@bmail01.one.com>

JH,

That's really cool!

One question though, do you really need the 4 power plugs? I rather only have one....

Cheers,
ToAd





From peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk  Mon Mar 30 11:20:29 2009
From: peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk (Pete Swarbrick)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:20:29 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
In-Reply-To: <eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
	<eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096481@eumail.eu.panavision.com>

Hi Dave
Sorry I only just caught up with this thread (day-job getting in the way
again...)
I guess what you were asking is what value R is in the emitter path from
Q7 to +12V if there is no vernier circuitry. I built an experimental 901
on stripboard a couple of years ago using an SSM2220 PNP pair for the
mirror (ie Q7 on the osc and Q10 on the expo generator section) I
figured that using matched devices would give a better result; it didn't
work very well.
I will try and dig the board and my notes out and have a look if you
like.

BTW If you look at Cary's 901 pics there is a resistor on the extreme
top left corner which I think is part of the answer: I originally
assumed it was the 270K from the wiper of the tracking pot but I'm not
sure! Perhaps Cary could give us an opinion on this.

Are you still persevering with this project? Let us know how you get on;
for all the well-documented shortcomings of these VCOs I have never been
quite able to get the idea of having some out of my mind, there is
something very appealing about the simplicity of the UJT core.

Best
Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dave Leith
Sent: 21 March 2009 15:00
To: TJ
Cc: SDIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO

Hi Terry  and thanks for the response

hmmm..wish I had that module to look at :-)

just got pictures and schematics and old catalogs..

however it seems the 901A has:
the switched (semitones) and 0 to 2 variable voltage for tuning
901B has
switched Lo to 2 foot plus a frequency vernier of 0 to 10.
When they are put together as a 901 there are only the 3 controls not
4 (which makes sense) of  switched  (semitones), switched Lo to 2
foot, and 0 to 2 variable voltage for fine tuning. The additional
frequency vernier of 0 - 10 (dual 10K pot) is missing as the
oscillator is no longer part of a bank and would not need to be offset
from another VCOs within the bank.
So it is the circuitry for the 901B frequency vernier that seems to be
missing and small changes are made to accommodate this - well that's
how it looks on the remakes on the site link above. The schematics for
the 901A/B do not indicate how the dual 10K pot is omitted.  Maybe the
original 901's were wired different and just left the extra parts on
the board? Not quite sure how they would bypass the function of the
dual 10K - that's what I'm looking for.

Dave


On 3/21/09, TJ <daytona at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for the schematic for the Moog 901 VCO - not the 901 A,
B
> > or C - I have these already in an old service manual. The 901
combines
> > them ( A B and C) and removes some of the redundant circuitry. Seems
a
> > bit rare.......
> >
> > Anyone able to help? I saw a remake of these here
> > http://www.moogmodular.com/9501/
> >
> >
>  Hey Dave,
>   It is difficult to see from those photos, but I have an old 1969 901
here.
> It is simply just a 901A on the one side mounted upside down, so you
can
> adjust the trimmers from the left. And a 901B on the other side, and
there
> is no 901C involved. I'm not aware of any circuit differences, other
than
> the front panel attenuators for the four waveforms? Perhaps you are
thinking
> the 921 oscillator that has additional circuitry for the auxilary
output
> section?
>  Terry
>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

checked by CanIt4



From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 30 13:55:50 2009
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 04:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
In-Reply-To: <F5F8623DE81A4DB3BE2961603C5830F2@R52>
Message-ID: <113089.90895.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Yes, according to Roland Service Bulliten #100248.

--- On Mon, 3/30/09, K/Modeless Factory <kay at zad.att.ne.jp> wrote:

> From: K/Modeless Factory <kay at zad.att.ne.jp>
> Subject: Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
> To: "Doug Terrebonne" <dougt55 at yahoo.com>, "AH" <analogue at hyperreal.org>, "synth-diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 3:32 AM
> Hello;
> 
> >superior linearity and low freq response
> 
> Is it really "superior linearity and low freq
> response"?
> 
> Thank you.
> K/Modeless Factory.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Doug Terrebonne" <dougt55 at yahoo.com>
> To: "AH" <analogue at hyperreal.org>;
> "synth-diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:15 AM
> Subject: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
> 
> 
> >
> > Hi, I've got a few Roland "white dot"
> (superior linearity and low freq 
> > response) CEM3340s in stock now. CEM3360s are back in
> stock too.
> >
> > Thanks
> > http://www.synthparts.com/
> >
> >


From louis at dompselaar.org  Mon Mar 30 14:01:41 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:01:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
In-Reply-To: <113089.90895.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <113089.90895.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49D0B4A5.1060908@dompselaar.org>

But, where they selected for those attributes (meaning random non-white-dot
CEMs /might/ perform equally well) or specially produced (meaning 
non-white-dot
versions are actually different)?


On 03/30/2009 01:55 PM, Doug Terrebonne wrote:
> Yes, according to Roland Service Bulliten #100248.
>
> --- On Mon, 3/30/09, K/Modeless Factory<kay at zad.att.ne.jp>  wrote:
>
>    
>> Is it really "superior linearity and low freq
>> response"?
>>
>> Thank you.
>> K/Modeless Factory.
>>      



From louis at dompselaar.org  Mon Mar 30 14:11:35 2009
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:11:35 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
In-Reply-To: <49D0B4A5.1060908@dompselaar.org>
References: <113089.90895.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49D0B4A5.1060908@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <49D0B6F7.1070809@dompselaar.org>

And another question: how does a white dot actually look?

For example, is this a white dot or just a random spec of random:
http://www.dompselaar.org/Curtis/P1050384.JPG


On 03/30/2009 02:01 PM, Louis van Dompselaar wrote:
> But, where they selected for those attributes (meaning random 
> non-white-dot
> CEMs /might/ perform equally well) or specially produced (meaning 
> non-white-dot
> versions are actually different)?



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Mon Mar 30 14:23:43 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:23:43 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
In-Reply-To: <49D0B4A5.1060908@dompselaar.org>
References: <113089.90895.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49D0B4A5.1060908@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <49D0B9CF.5080902@mnet-online.de>

Hello,

Louis van Dompselaar schrieb:
 > But, where they selected for those attributes (meaning random 
non-white-dot
 > CEMs /might/ perform equally well) or specially produced (meaning
 > non-white-dot versions are actually different)?

To my knowledge (which I have from the former german importer) the white 
dot 3340's are select for those attributes. According to this source 
there never was a special "quality production run".

Florian


From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 30 14:25:30 2009
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 05:25:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
In-Reply-To: <49D0B4A5.1060908@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <912954.27467.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


According to the service bulletin Roland tested each CEM3340 and placed either a white or red dot on them based on their performance.


--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Louis van Dompselaar <louis at dompselaar.org> wrote:

> From: Louis van Dompselaar <louis at dompselaar.org>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 5:01 AM
> But, where they selected for those attributes (meaning
> random non-white-dot
> CEMs /might/ perform equally well) or specially produced
> (meaning 
> non-white-dot
> versions are actually different)?
> 
> 
> On 03/30/2009 01:55 PM, Doug Terrebonne wrote:
> > Yes, according to Roland Service Bulliten #100248.
> >
> > --- On Mon, 3/30/09, K/Modeless
> Factory<kay at zad.att.ne.jp>  wrote:
> >
> >    
> >> Is it really "superior linearity and low freq
> >> response"?
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >> K/Modeless Factory.
> >>      
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Mon Mar 30 14:27:07 2009
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:27:07 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
In-Reply-To: <49D0B6F7.1070809@dompselaar.org>
References: <113089.90895.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<49D0B4A5.1060908@dompselaar.org>
	<49D0B6F7.1070809@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <49D0BA9B.5050102@mnet-online.de>

Hello Louis

Louis van Dompselaar schrieb:
> And another question: how does a white dot actually look?
> 
> For example, is this a white dot or just a random spec of random:
> http://www.dompselaar.org/Curtis/P1050384.JPG

usually the dot was larger:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1097/724165170_6369f019eb_o.jpg
If this does not work
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adeneko/724165170/sizes/o/in/set-72157600655687373/

Florian


From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 30 14:45:27 2009
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 05:45:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
In-Reply-To: <49D0B6F7.1070809@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <846984.94811.qm@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


That looks like just some speck. The Roland dots are much bigger (about half the width of the chip)...


--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Louis van Dompselaar <louis at dompselaar.org> wrote:

> From: Louis van Dompselaar <louis at dompselaar.org>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Re: [AH] CEM3340 Roland white dot version available
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 5:11 AM
> And another question: how does a white dot actually look?
> 
> For example, is this a white dot or just a random spec of
> random:
> http://www.dompselaar.org/Curtis/P1050384.JPG
> 
> 
> On 03/30/2009 02:01 PM, Louis van Dompselaar wrote:
> > But, where they selected for those attributes (meaning
> random non-white-dot
> > CEMs /might/ perform equally well) or specially
> produced (meaning non-white-dot
> > versions are actually different)?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From czvekan at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 16:26:42 2009
From: czvekan at gmail.com (Csaba Zvekan)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:26:42 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Dave Smith Prophet 08 Schematics
Message-ID: <8B5CD7BD-2838-4A5C-B95F-30C2743E4577@gmail.com>

Hi Group,

Anybody got Dave Smith's Prophet 08 Schematics. No , repair or  
anything . I don't even have the synth. I just wanna look at it out of  
curiosity . :)

Many thanks

Csaba


From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Mon Mar 30 16:30:53 2009
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl.)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:30:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults
In-Reply-To: <726891.98299.qm@web81801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<01a301c9abc6$75998740$60cc95c0$@net>
	<726891.98299.qm@web81801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A516AF28-AE96-4F1C-8670-91551F7C94D5@blauwurf.info>

Hi David,

> While that's not it exactly, this is probably the way I'll go if I  
> can figure this other way out.  It seems like the issue with the 910  
> is that there's always 3 jacks that are off limits, and they're  
> always in groups of 4 (sorta).  In practice, though, this may really  
> not be a concern.  There used to be a picture floating around of the  
> wiring of the 910.  Does anyone know where it is?

Sorry no pic just Paul's product description:
http://www.synthtech.com/motm910.html

Depending on the form factor you're sticking with, why not use  
separate switches to build up groups?
To me this also would be more attractive from the performers POV since  
i could dramatically change the patch by the flick of a switch.
And then again, I play a lot with loose plugs which I firmly insert at  
a certain point during the performance.

What I don't like with most breaking-circuit-concepts is the loss of  
insert points.
And I don't know of a switched jack that closes on inserting a plug.
But maybe I just didn't get your idea properly?

     Michael.  :-)

--
hear the colours of noise: http://blauwurf.at






From dave.leith at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 17:13:36 2009
From: dave.leith at gmail.com (Dave Leith)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 08:13:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
In-Reply-To: <F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096481@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
References: <opuq4t5xh21z7pau@mail.verizon.net>
	<eaacbb730903210800q5d3f4452q3d8f08b7c13ae12@mail.gmail.com>
	<F2977028B2926346A37E0D0888FFC20A096481@eumail.eu.panavision.com>
Message-ID: <eaacbb730903300813t69fa28fcrdfc784bda21b88a6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Peter

Yes I am still persevering. Any help is greatly appreciated. (As for
contrast and this insane project I am also building a cloned Buchla
259.<http://minimalist.davidleith.com/DeitzModSynth3.html>

As for the missing emitter resistor value I think that it is also
visible on Terry's photos in a different location - as the closest to
the front and in-front of the sine symmetry trim.
<http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6s1hi/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/901leftback.jpg>
I did some comparing of the different 901 photos to circuit values

In my prototype I am trying to place the diode arrays, the transistor
pair Q6,7 (NPN) and possibly R7/P1 (may become a tempco) close to one
another/thermally touching). I was also planning on trying a matched
pair for the PNP's so interested in how yours worked out. This was all
going to be on one board.

Thanks Dave

On 3/30/09, Pete Swarbrick <peter.swarbrick at panavision.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Dave
>  Sorry I only just caught up with this thread (day-job getting in the way
>  again...)
>  I guess what you were asking is what value R is in the emitter path from
>  Q7 to +12V if there is no vernier circuitry. I built an experimental 901
>  on stripboard a couple of years ago using an SSM2220 PNP pair for the
>  mirror (ie Q7 on the osc and Q10 on the expo generator section) I
>  figured that using matched devices would give a better result; it didn't
>  work very well.
>  I will try and dig the board and my notes out and have a look if you
>  like.
>
>  BTW If you look at Cary's 901 pics there is a resistor on the extreme
>  top left corner which I think is part of the answer: I originally
>  assumed it was the 270K from the wiper of the tracking pot but I'm not
>  sure! Perhaps Cary could give us an opinion on this.
>
>  Are you still persevering with this project? Let us know how you get on;
>  for all the well-documented shortcomings of these VCOs I have never been
>  quite able to get the idea of having some out of my mind, there is
>  something very appealing about the simplicity of the UJT core.
>
>  Best
>  Pete
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Dave Leith
>  Sent: 21 March 2009 15:00
>  To: TJ
>  Cc: SDIY
>  Subject: Re: [sdiy] schematic for Moog 901 VCO
>
>
> Hi Terry  and thanks for the response
>
>  hmmm..wish I had that module to look at :-)
>
>  just got pictures and schematics and old catalogs..
>
>  however it seems the 901A has:
>  the switched (semitones) and 0 to 2 variable voltage for tuning
>  901B has
>  switched Lo to 2 foot plus a frequency vernier of 0 to 10.
>  When they are put together as a 901 there are only the 3 controls not
>  4 (which makes sense) of  switched  (semitones), switched Lo to 2
>  foot, and 0 to 2 variable voltage for fine tuning. The additional
>  frequency vernier of 0 - 10 (dual 10K pot) is missing as the
>  oscillator is no longer part of a bank and would not need to be offset
>  from another VCOs within the bank.
>  So it is the circuitry for the 901B frequency vernier that seems to be
>  missing and small changes are made to accommodate this - well that's
>  how it looks on the remakes on the site link above. The schematics for
>  the 901A/B do not indicate how the dual 10K pot is omitted.  Maybe the
>  original 901's were wired different and just left the extra parts on
>  the board? Not quite sure how they would bypass the function of the
>  dual 10K - that's what I'm looking for.
>
>  Dave
>
>
>  On 3/21/09, TJ <daytona at verizon.net> wrote:
>  >
>  > > I'm looking for the schematic for the Moog 901 VCO - not the 901 A,
>  B
>  > > or C - I have these already in an old service manual. The 901
>  combines
>  > > them ( A B and C) and removes some of the redundant circuitry. Seems
>  a
>  > > bit rare.......
>  > >
>  > > Anyone able to help? I saw a remake of these here
>  > > http://www.moogmodular.com/9501/
>  > >
>  > >
>  >  Hey Dave,
>  >   It is difficult to see from those photos, but I have an old 1969 901
>  here.
>  > It is simply just a 901A on the one side mounted upside down, so you
>  can
>  > adjust the trimmers from the left. And a 901B on the other side, and
>  there
>  > is no 901C involved. I'm not aware of any circuit differences, other
>  than
>  > the front panel attenuators for the four waveforms? Perhaps you are
>  thinking
>  > the 921 oscillator that has additional circuitry for the auxilary
>  output
>  > section?
>  >  Terry
>  >
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Synth-diy mailing list
>  Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>  http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> checked by CanIt4
>


From keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk  Mon Mar 30 17:17:00 2009
From: keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk (Keith Winstanley)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:17 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] 16mm commercial ALPHA pots
Message-ID: <memo.227307@cix.compulink.co.uk>

Is there a UK supplier of 16mm commercial ALPHA pots
in the UK? Rapid seems to stock exactly the ones I dont need!

I am after:    A10K LOG x10

TIA

cheers

Keith

http://home.freeuk.net/lowpass



From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Mon Mar 30 17:22:28 2009
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl.)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:22:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W3691FFD2B82E7AC005E57FF5920@phx.gbl>
References: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BAY141-W3691FFD2B82E7AC005E57FF5920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <53C64ED0-E43F-4F1F-B2F0-39A080B43344@blauwurf.info>


Hi Ian,

> Has anyone thought to do multiples with attenuators on them?

I did - but it developed differently.
During last summer I pondered over a rather freely configurable filter  
setup  and talked privatly about that (hey Tom! ;-) but ditched that  
thoughts in favour of a more versatile patch matrix module.
Patch matrix instead of a multiple I've to say.
I've had several ways to approach this.

My favourite was a X  by Y matrix with an inverting VCA at each node.
This got pretty large for obvious reasons (just a small a 8x8 matrix  
would mean 64 VCAs plus inverters etc.) so I opted for a switching  
matrix with inverting VCAs on each input of X and Y.
On a still small matrix like 8x8 this would mean 16 circuits - which  
is better but not as versatile.
However - any of this approaches would be a more or less huge module.

For my next long-term project (suit case size synth) I'd prefer a  
properly buffered ghilmetti matrix which then again has no attenuators  
(pots or VCAs) by itself.
I still didn't conclude on this.
It also may happen that I'll just utilise a more or less clever patch  
matrix.

   Michael.



--
noise chasers: http://blauwurf.at





From oakleylist at btinternet.com  Mon Mar 30 19:01:03 2009
From: oakleylist at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:01:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 16mm commercial ALPHA pots
In-Reply-To: <memo.227307@cix.compulink.co.uk>
References: <memo.227307@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49D0FACF.7010808@btinternet.com>

Farnell have just started stocking BI/TT 16mm pots which look like the 
little Alphas.

10Klog is Farnell pt. 1684812

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Mar 30 20:02:43 2009
From: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:02:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] 16mm commercial ALPHA pots
In-Reply-To: <memo.227307@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AD5C08BE96EC4829A96E1B0AD70395A6@stingo>

Hi Keith,
	ESR components stock 16mm pots, but I think they are all serrated
shaft for push-fit knobs:

http://www.esr.co.uk/components/

Their website is a little 'odd', but see page 25 of catalogue:

http://www.esr.co.uk/PDF_Store01/ESR%20Components.pdf

Tim

__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
www.timstinchcombe.co.uk


> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of 
> Keith Winstanley
> Sent: 30 March 2009 16:17
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] 16mm commercial ALPHA pots
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a UK supplier of 16mm commercial ALPHA pots
> in the UK? Rapid seems to stock exactly the ones I dont need!
> 
> I am after:    A10K LOG x10
> 
> TIA
> 
> cheers
> 
> Keith
> 
> http://home.freeuk.net/lowpass
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 





From jhaible at debitel.net  Mon Mar 30 22:18:04 2009
From: jhaible at debitel.net (JH.)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:18:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Re: [motm] Living VCOs first audio demo
References: <FEF29721A3E64307BF390927ADE1D821@jhsilent>
	<20090330072858.393BB2C0069B@bmail01.one.com>
Message-ID: <EA377A1FBA924E7E9F8F01D881AE8A41@jhsilent>

>One question though, do you really need the 4 power plugs? I rather only 
>have one....

If your power supply cables aren't too long, you may get away with 
daisy-chaining.
In fact that's what I did with the yellow, brown and red wires in this 
picture:
http://www.jhaible.de/living_vcos/living_testbench.jpg

But if someone uses a real big cabinet, with long wires, I wanted to give 
the possibility of individual supply, at least.

JH.






From derek at umatic.nl  Tue Mar 31 17:33:30 2009
From: derek at umatic.nl (Derek Holzer)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:33:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] norway: electronics suppliers
Message-ID: <49D237CA.8080906@umatic.nl>

Hi all,

I'll be doing a workshop in Bergen Norway at the end of May, and I'd 
like to hear from anyone in Norway about who to order parts from (in 
Norway or in EU). Who ships to Norway, who is cheapest, etc etc...

About the workshop:

http://www.vimeo.com/album/64426

thx + best!
Derek
-- 
::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: 
http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista :::
---Oblique Strategy # 189:
"You are an engineer"


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Tue Mar 31 17:52:25 2009
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:52:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Dynamic numbers of Mults
In-Reply-To: <A516AF28-AE96-4F1C-8670-91551F7C94D5@blauwurf.info>
References: <798467.31920.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<01a301c9abc6$75998740$60cc95c0$@net>
	<726891.98299.qm@web81801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<A516AF28-AE96-4F1C-8670-91551F7C94D5@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <20090331155225.GA31525@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2009-03-30 16:30 +0200, Michael Zacherl. wrote:

> And I don't know of a switched jack that closes on inserting a plug.

Not many resellers stock them but they exist. Switchcraft and (I
think) LS make jack sockets with normally open contacts and even
isolated SPDT switches instead of the usual normally closed
contacts.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 18:09:08 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:09:08 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digi-Mod
Message-ID: <49D24024.5060807@burnit.co.uk>

It's been a while since I've posted about progress on my Digi-Mod.  I've 
got the hardware side of things all up and running well, and some basic 
software.  But I think it's going to take quite a long time to implement 
all the software ideas I've got (especially with all the other things 
I'm trying to fit into my life).

In the meantime I've put together a bit of info and the final schematic 
on my website ...
http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/index.php?page=digimod

As you will read (if you get that far) I've decided not to do the main 
PCB run until the software is finished or near-finished, as I expect 
most people building it will not wish to write their own.  If anyone is 
interested in using it as a platform to develop their own software then 
I do have a couple of spare prototype PCBs for sale - details on the 
website.  I'm happy to share the software I've written for it so far.

Seb





From elektrodwarf at yahoo.se  Tue Mar 31 19:04:46 2009
From: elektrodwarf at yahoo.se (Karl Ekdahl)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:04:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sdiy] Schematics for a Soundmaster Stix ST-305
Message-ID: <75012.34612.qm@web26205.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


Hi list, i've got a problematic ST-305 on my hands and need schematics. Also, have anyone heard of any mods for this thing? It seems like someone was in poking in this thing...

Karl


      __________________________________________________________
Ta semester! - s?k efter resor hos Kelkoo.
J?mf?r pris p? flygbiljetter och hotellrum h?r:
http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052



From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Tue Mar 31 19:06:40 2009
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:06:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digi-Mod
In-Reply-To: <49D24024.5060807@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49D24024.5060807@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49D24DA0.9060905@cox.net>

Seb Francis wrote:
> It's been a while since I've posted about progress on my Digi-Mod.  I've 
> got the hardware side of things all up and running well, and some basic 
> software.  But I think it's going to take quite a long time to implement 
> all the software ideas I've got (especially with all the other things 
> I'm trying to fit into my life).
> 
> In the meantime I've put together a bit of info and the final schematic 
> on my website ...
> http://burnit.co.uk/sdiy/index.php?page=digimod
> 
> As you will read (if you get that far) I've decided not to do the main 
> PCB run until the software is finished or near-finished, as I expect 
> most people building it will not wish to write their own.  If anyone is 
> interested in using it as a platform to develop their own software then 
> I do have a couple of spare prototype PCBs for sale - details on the 
> website.  I'm happy to share the software I've written for it so far.

Nice looking board - I like the non-orthogonal routing.

I understand that it will take a while to get the firmware finished with 
the ambitious goals you've got for this module. Any early info on what 
you've managed to get working so far?

Eric


From Scott at scottwick.com  Tue Mar 31 19:12:47 2009
From: Scott at scottwick.com (Scott)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:12:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Power Supply Trouble
Message-ID: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CC9@sol.wick.stl>

My power supply droops when my AC power fluctuates. (VCO's lower their tune, and LFO's/clocks slow down)  I have a regulated Power One 3 amp 15/0/-15 supply.  Shouldn't the regulated supply be able to handle ac power fluctuations?
I haven't taken out the PS to start testing yet.  Is there anything obvious I should check for when I get started?

Thanks!



From tony at makenoisemusic.com  Tue Mar 31 19:31:27 2009
From: tony at makenoisemusic.com (Tony Rolando)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:31:27 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Power Supply Trouble
In-Reply-To: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CC9@sol.wick.stl>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CC9@sol.wick.stl>
Message-ID: <49D2536F.20807@makenoisemusic.com>

How old is it? Has it ever been re-capped?

Tony

Scott wrote:
> My power supply droops when my AC power fluctuates. (VCO's lower their tune, and LFO's/clocks slow down)  I have a regulated Power One 3 amp 15/0/-15 supply.  Shouldn't the regulated supply be able to handle ac power fluctuations?
> I haven't taken out the PS to start testing yet.  Is there anything obvious I should check for when I get started?
>
> Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   



From Scott at scottwick.com  Tue Mar 31 19:46:50 2009
From: Scott at scottwick.com (Scott)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:46:50 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Power Supply Trouble
In-Reply-To: <49D2536F.20807@makenoisemusic.com>
References: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CC9@sol.wick.stl>
	<49D2536F.20807@makenoisemusic.com>
Message-ID: <54175DAA8F81AC4B8AC1FA88901368B3032CCB@sol.wick.stl>

It is old (used) and has not be recapped.  
I have a few power ones, of various sizes..  I was able to see AC ripple on the DC side of one of them, and so replaced the caps.  That fixed that issue. 

the one that is in my synth did not show AC on the DC side.  But, the caps are the first thing I thought of, too.  I guess I'll just order caps.  It definitely won't hurt to replace them.

If anyone has other ideas, please let me know.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Rolando [mailto:tony at makenoisemusic.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:31 PM
To: Scott
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Power Supply Trouble

How old is it? Has it ever been re-capped?

Tony

Scott wrote:
> My power supply droops when my AC power fluctuates. (VCO's lower their tune, and LFO's/clocks slow down)  I have a regulated Power One 3 amp 15/0/-15 supply.  Shouldn't the regulated supply be able to handle ac power fluctuations?
> I haven't taken out the PS to start testing yet.  Is there anything obvious I should check for when I get started?
>
> Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>   




From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 23:06:13 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:06:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digi-Mod
In-Reply-To: <49D24DA0.9060905@cox.net>
References: <49D24024.5060807@burnit.co.uk> <49D24DA0.9060905@cox.net>
Message-ID: <49D285C5.1020509@burnit.co.uk>

Eric Brombaugh wrote:
>
> Nice looking board - I like the non-orthogonal routing.
>

It's so boring just having straight lines ;)
... plus it was a squeeze fitting it all in the space, so I had to really 
follow the shape of the free space with the traces at times (while 
making sure I kept the digital and analog nicely zoned)

> I understand that it will take a while to get the firmware finished 
> with the ambitious goals you've got for this module. Any early info on 
> what you've managed to get working so far?
>

Well at the moment I've done little more than write the framework for 
the hardware, the basic ISRs, etc, enough really to test everything is 
working.  I have a basic sampler that can record and play back, without 
changing pitch.

For ages I had this weird problem where the audio output would fade in 
rather than play immediately when playback was triggered ... until I 
realised the CODEC has a 'feature' where it auto-mutes after a certain 
number of consecutive identical samples (it then fades in after a 
mute).  So it's been a while struggling with things like that, but 
hopefully now the basics are done I can get on with the more creative bits.

I have to say that I haven't tested the CV output and MIDI parts as I'm 
not planning to use them myself, but I'm sure there's no problem as the 
CV output circuit is very simple (quite close to your 'dspicfun' board 
actually), and the MIDI circuit is one I've used on many projects before.

Seb





From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Tue Mar 31 23:38:50 2009
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:38:50 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digi-Mod
In-Reply-To: <49D285C5.1020509@burnit.co.uk>
References: <49D24024.5060807@burnit.co.uk> <49D24DA0.9060905@cox.net>
	<49D285C5.1020509@burnit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49D28D6A.9050602@cox.net>

Seb Francis wrote:
> Well at the moment I've done little more than write the framework for 
> the hardware, the basic ISRs, etc, enough really to test everything is 
> working.  I have a basic sampler that can record and play back, without 
> changing pitch.

Sounds like a good start!

> For ages I had this weird problem where the audio output would fade in 
> rather than play immediately when playback was triggered ... until I 
> realised the CODEC has a 'feature' where it auto-mutes after a certain 
> number of consecutive identical samples (it then fades in after a 
> mute).

I'm also using the CS4270 on my ARM/FPGA board & ran into the same 
thing. Although it's just a matter of tweaking a bit in the control 
registers to disable the feature, it's a bit annoying until you get 
around to it.

> I have to say that I haven't tested the CV output and MIDI parts as I'm 
> not planning to use them myself, but I'm sure there's no problem as the 
> CV output circuit is very simple (quite close to your 'dspicfun' board 
> actually), and the MIDI circuit is one I've used on many projects before.

Left as an exercise for those who need it.

Which reminds me - I've got to do some more firmware on the dsPICfun 
board at some point. Just been too wrapped up in the FPGA board lately...

Eric


From seb at burnit.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 23:59:18 2009
From: seb at burnit.co.uk (Seb Francis)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:59:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digi-Mod
In-Reply-To: <49D28D6A.9050602@cox.net>
References: <49D24024.5060807@burnit.co.uk>
	<49D24DA0.9060905@cox.net>	<49D285C5.1020509@burnit.co.uk>
	<49D28D6A.9050602@cox.net>
Message-ID: <49D29236.9070207@burnit.co.uk>

Eric Brombaugh wrote:
>
> I'm also using the CS4270 on my ARM/FPGA board & ran into the same 
> thing. Although it's just a matter of tweaking a bit in the control 
> registers to disable the feature, it's a bit annoying until you get 
> around to it.

Yeah, it's useful to read the datasheet carefully sometimes!  In my case 
I have the CS4270 running in standalone mode so as not to use up more 
dsPIC I/O than necessary.  So since this 'feature' can't be turned off, 
I just output a 1 every 8192 samples while the outputs are inactive 
(i.e. outputting 0s).  I don't remember having to do this with the 
CS4272 in the 4xD.

>
> Which reminds me - I've got to do some more firmware on the dsPICfun 
> board at some point. Just been too wrapped up in the FPGA board lately...
>

Yeah that looks like an interesting project ... a whole new set of 
tricks to learn!

Seb





