From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Tue May  1 04:36:24 2012
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (aankrom)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:36:24 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MS20 rev1 2 pole high pass
In-Reply-To: <CAAxOnzaZ3W00XmcxCpOm25zAKsBPoztGiRuWEdYNfO_K0p_N3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxOnzaZ3W00XmcxCpOm25zAKsBPoztGiRuWEdYNfO_K0p_N3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <938f3b944fe5f18aac40fe6fb19f2986@bluemarble.net>

This post made me think about how all the filters I've built or want to 
build are resonant low-pass filters. I think I should broaden my 
horizons.

AA


On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:59:17 +0800, Andrew Simper wrote:
> I've come up with a design for a 2 pole high pass MS20 rev1 style
> transistor core filter. Has anyone heard of such a thing before? I'm
> guessing so because it was pretty easy to do, just take the ms20 rev1
> low pass, swap the transistors for the caps like you do for a regular
> sallen key, and also change the transistors to pnp and then feed the
> negative control voltage to them. You also need to put a buffer
> between the two stages, but other than that the opamp and resonance
> side of things can stay the same.
>
> I've not yet built the circuit, but I've done a model of it and made
> an audio demo here:
>
> www.cytomic.com/files/thedrop-one-sided-tranny.mp3
>
> For this demo I took the output pre final diode clipper, which is 
> easy
> to do in software.
>
> Andy
> --
> cytomic - sound music software
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue May  1 15:57:34 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (dan snazelle)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:57:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>

I got MP-LAB installed but I cant for the life of my find the compiler for DSPIC that runs on OSX.

anyone else here using Pics/DSPICS with MAC?

thanks




From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue May  1 18:29:54 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 17:29:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EB3EBC25-10BC-4A46-9FB8-BC62F50824D7@electricdruid.net>

I had a try, but struggled enough to use MPLAB-X on a computer with only one mouse button. In theory, it should be simple enough to set up a key combination for right-click or whatever, but in practice I kept finding it conflicted and left me with something else I couldn't do, got frustrated, and gave up. One problem I had was with MPLAB-X complaining about invalid characters in filepaths - a typical problem when moving between systems. Having failed to even get basics like this working, I never got as far as installing any C compilers.

It'd be kind of nice to be able to do a bit of code development on my laptop, but I'll wait until MPLAB-X gets the wrinkles smoothed out. The latest/last versions of MPLAB on PC will do me fine until then.

Sorry not to be more help.

Tom

On 1 May 2012, at 14:57, dan snazelle wrote:

> I got MP-LAB installed but I cant for the life of my find the compiler for DSPIC that runs on OSX.
> 
> anyone else here using Pics/DSPICS with MAC?
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue May  1 19:31:27 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 18:31:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
In-Reply-To: <CAL3=FbYEp1tD1KSB8tivLcB27=TgaQ-1z=ScNb-pcigp3Cf_CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
	<EB3EBC25-10BC-4A46-9FB8-BC62F50824D7@electricdruid.net>
	<CAL3=FbYEp1tD1KSB8tivLcB27=TgaQ-1z=ScNb-pcigp3Cf_CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <516AD816-2828-4F5D-926F-E46A963329C8@electricdruid.net>


On 1 May 2012, at 17:54, Jason Tribbeck wrote:

> On 1 May 2012 17:29, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
> I had a try, but struggled enough to use MPLAB-X on a computer with only one mouse button. In theory, it should be simple enough to set up a key combination for right-click or whatever, but in practice I kept finding it conflicted and left me with something else I couldn't do, got frustrated, and gave up. One problem I had was with MPLAB-X complaining about invalid characters in filepaths - a typical problem when moving between systems. Having failed to even get basics like this working, I never got as far as installing any C compilers.
> 
> 
> That surprises me - I've not really had any problems (although debugging's a bit hit-and-miss sometimes). I've also had no real problems with the Microchip Libraries (USB/MDD/TCPIP is what I've been using).
> 
> I've not done anything with the installs other than the defaults - did you do anything?
> 
> I really like the editor - although the tooltips are a bit too 'sticky' for my liking.

I'm quite glad to hear someone else managed to make it work. That makes it more likely that I was just being a bit unlucky.

I didn't do anything beyond a straight install of MPLAB-X in order to experiment. I've never used the Microchip Libraries, but if I needed USB code, I think I'd go and look - I don't feel the need to reinvent that particular wheel.

I agree that the editor is quite nice, but I found the whole shift to the new system a bit of a pain and not adequately explained. The new software seems to work in a very different way to the old, and I don't use about 3/4s of what's in the old software, so finding my way in the new one was an unpleasant process. But learning new tools is always a drag, so I don't hold Microchip responsible for that.

T.




From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Tue May  1 19:33:31 2012
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (KA4HJH)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 13:33:31 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
In-Reply-To: <EB3EBC25-10BC-4A46-9FB8-BC62F50824D7@electricdruid.net>
References: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
	<EB3EBC25-10BC-4A46-9FB8-BC62F50824D7@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <p06240803cbc5ce2c69ca@[192.168.1.66]>

>I had a try, but struggled enough to use MPLAB-X on a computer with only
>one mouse button. In theory, it should be simple enough to set up a key
>combination for right-click or whatever, but in practice I kept finding it
>conflicted and left me with something else I couldn't do, got frustrated,
>and gave up.

Control-click is the same as right-click. Apple's last two mice did a
right-click fairly well but before that you had to get something
third-party. Or control-click. It makes using my old iBook a pain.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue May  1 19:54:19 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 18:54:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
In-Reply-To: <p06240803cbc5ce2c69ca@[192.168.1.66]>
References: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
	<EB3EBC25-10BC-4A46-9FB8-BC62F50824D7@electricdruid.net>
	<p06240803cbc5ce2c69ca@[192.168.1.66]>
Message-ID: <3170FA8F-62CE-4478-8F1F-C6B3E76AB011@electricdruid.net>


On 1 May 2012, at 18:33, KA4HJH wrote:

>> I had a try, but struggled enough to use MPLAB-X on a computer with only
>> one mouse button. In theory, it should be simple enough to set up a key
>> combination for right-click or whatever, but in practice I kept finding it
>> conflicted and left me with something else I couldn't do, got frustrated,
>> and gave up.
> 
> Control-click is the same as right-click. Apple's last two mice did a
> right-click fairly well but before that you had to get something
> third-party. Or control-click. It makes using my old iBook a pain.

If it was that simple, I'd probably have got it. I think MPLAB uses control click for something else, so you're still stuffed since you can't do a control-right-click. Or maybe now I'm getting confused with the Diptrace X version which I installed around the same time...

I'll try it again some time.

T.





From igg.debus at t-online.de  Tue May  1 21:26:09 2012
From: igg.debus at t-online.de (Ingo Debus)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 21:26:09 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
In-Reply-To: <3170FA8F-62CE-4478-8F1F-C6B3E76AB011@electricdruid.net>
References: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
	<EB3EBC25-10BC-4A46-9FB8-BC62F50824D7@electricdruid.net>
	<p06240803cbc5ce2c69ca@[192.168.1.66]>
	<3170FA8F-62CE-4478-8F1F-C6B3E76AB011@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <59BA7F33-0795-4D84-84D7-E6730E086203@t-online.de>


Am 01.05.2012 um 19:54 schrieb Tom Wiltshire:

> On 1 May 2012, at 18:33, KA4HJH wrote:
> 
>>> I had a try, but struggled enough to use MPLAB-X on a computer with only
>>> one mouse button. In theory, it should be simple enough to set up a key
>>> combination for right-click or whatever, but in practice I kept finding it
>>> conflicted and left me with something else I couldn't do, got frustrated,
>>> and gave up.
>> 
>> Control-click is the same as right-click. Apple's last two mice did a
>> right-click fairly well but before that you had to get something
>> third-party. Or control-click. It makes using my old iBook a pain.
> 
> If it was that simple, I'd probably have got it. I think MPLAB uses control click for something else, so you're still stuffed since you can't do a control-right-click. Or maybe now I'm getting confused with the Diptrace X version which I installed around the same time...

Couldn't you use a plain cheap two-button+wheel mouse? When working with Eagle 5 on my Mac I did this all the time.

With Eagle 6, working with the MacBook track pad is much nicer than with a mouse.

Ingo

From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed May  2 21:59:39 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (dan snazelle)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:59:39 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
In-Reply-To: <CAL3=FbYvm-1_VbUDAs1pVVK8BtZK4LM46E9RRgbFXYvZon1D+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
	<CAL3=FbYvm-1_VbUDAs1pVVK8BtZK4LM46E9RRgbFXYvZon1D+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1603838920B19EAEF800289C82E0@phx.gbl>

"Are you using MPLAB-X? I'm doing so right this minute, with dsPIC33 on MacOS X. The compiler download is on the main MPLAB-X download area.
> 
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/mplab/X/index.html
> 
> Select Mac OS compiler, and tick the "MPLAB C30 Compiler" option. Click on "Download".




i did what you said and went ahead and installed the compiler (the C30 option)

however whenever i try to start a project i get this message which doesnt look too good (although it will let me go ahead and start my project)...anyone else seen this?

thanks for all the help





         Missing Files

C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/CloseSPI2.c

C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/ConfigIntSPI2.c

C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/DataRdySPI2.c

C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/OpenSPI2.c

C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/ReadSPI2.c

C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/WriteSPI2.c

C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/getsSPI2.c

C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/putsSPI2.c

C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB C30/lib/libdsp-coff.a

C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB C30/lib/libq-dsp-coff.a
On May 1, 2012, at 10:19 AM, Jason Tribbeck wrote:

> On 1 May 2012 14:57, dan snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I got MP-LAB installed but I cant for the life of my find the compiler for DSPIC that runs on OSX.
> 
> anyone else here using Pics/DSPICS with MAC?
> 
> 
> 
> It works **really** well, and finally allowed me to get off Windows.
> -- 
> C isn't that hard: void (*(*f[])())() defines f as an array of unspecified size, of pointers to functions that return pointers to functions that return void



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed May  2 22:05:36 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (dan snazelle)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 16:05:36 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
In-Reply-To: <21591AF2-6BCC-4454-8231-02F3A77DE67C@hotmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
	<CAL3=FbYvm-1_VbUDAs1pVVK8BtZK4LM46E9RRgbFXYvZon1D+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<21591AF2-6BCC-4454-8231-02F3A77DE67C@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP26415613078225B9D1BBB44C82E0@phx.gbl>


On May 2, 2012, at 3:59 PM, dan snazelle wrote:

> "Are you using MPLAB-X? I'm doing so right this minute, with dsPIC33 on MacOS X. The compiler download is on the main MPLAB-X download area.
>> 
>> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/mplab/X/index.html
>> 
>> Select Mac OS compiler, and tick the "MPLAB C30 Compiler" option. Click on "Download".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i did what you said and went ahead and installed the compiler (the C30 option)
> 
> however whenever i try to start a project i get this message which doesnt look too good (although it will let me go ahead and start my project)...anyone else seen this?
> 
> thanks for all the help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>         Missing Files
> 
> C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/CloseSPI2.c
> 
> C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/ConfigIntSPI2.c
> 
> C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/DataRdySPI2.c
> 
> C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/OpenSPI2.c
> 
> C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/ReadSPI2.c
> 
> C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/WriteSPI2.c
> 
> C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/getsSPI2.c
> 
> C:/Microchip Starter Kits/dsPIC Starter Kit - 1/MPLAB C30/src/peripheral_30F_24H_33F/src/pmc/spi/putsSPI2.c
> 
> C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB C30/lib/libdsp-coff.a
> 
> C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB C30/lib/libq-dsp-coff.a
> 

i suppose this could be because I am trying to start a new project by opening up a project from the internet which was created on a PC (hence the C:/program files)
maybe I will just start with a totally blank project

thanks for all your help







>> On 1 May 2012 14:57, dan snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I got MP-LAB installed but I cant for the life of my find the compiler for DSPIC that runs on OSX.
>> 
>> anyone else here using Pics/DSPICS with MAC?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It works **really** well, and finally allowed me to get off Windows.
>> -- 
>> C isn't that hard: void (*(*f[])())() defines f as an array of unspecified size, of pointers to functions that return pointers to functions that return void
> 



From Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com  Wed May  2 22:17:44 2012
From: Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com (Barry Klein)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 20:17:44 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Mini-DSP or TI Mini-DSP for metal detector audio
Message-ID: <83EEDB9AA00D6B449EB022CF4EFEC3233386DC27@wdscexmb03.sc.wdc.com>

Second shot at sending this - I didn't see the first attempt work.  Sorry if duplicate...:

One of my many "other" hobbies is metal detectors - DIY and use.
I recently obtained one called a Minelab GP Extreme.  These models of detectors from Minelab do not have speakers - they rely upon headphone use.
That's cool at the beach, but in the desert I'd like to be able to hear snakes if they make themselves known.
These detectors typically have a constant audio output tone that is a little warbly but gets louder and/or varies in frequency if a target is detected.
There was a product called Superfix that may have had a DSP inside to allow silence until a target is detected.  It was complicated to use though and very very expensive.
I'm wondering if one of these mini-DSP things: http://www.minidsp.com/index.php would be worth trying on the detector audio and what features may be cool to have.
TI also makes a series of chips with what are called mini-DSP (such as the PCM3070) I don't know if both are really using the same parts or not.
Have any of you tried either of these?  I'd like to ask questions regarding their capabilities.  

Barry


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Wed May  2 22:23:53 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (dan snazelle)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 16:23:53 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
In-Reply-To: <CAL3=Fba99z78+C3N074yS-eh5brHwH0WgfGAS1JVx3=UPLLSTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
	<CAL3=FbYvm-1_VbUDAs1pVVK8BtZK4LM46E9RRgbFXYvZon1D+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<21591AF2-6BCC-4454-8231-02F3A77DE67C@hotmail.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP26415613078225B9D1BBB44C82E0@phx.gbl>
	<CAL3=Fba99z78+C3N074yS-eh5brHwH0WgfGAS1JVx3=UPLLSTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP680A0189DE098B52B9A71EC82E0@phx.gbl>

shoot....it seems i am having this problem EVEN with NEW projects

here is the error message (this is with the C30 compiler and PICKIT2 to a dspic33fj64gp802




warning: Configuration "default" builds with "C30" at "C:\Program Files\Microchip\mplabc30\v3.30c\bin", but no toolchain of that type is installed there.
info: Configuration "default" will build with toolchain "C30" at "/Applications/microchip/mplabc30/v3.30c/bin".
warning: Configuration "default" builds with "C30" at "C:\Program Files\Microchip\mplabc30\v3.30c\bin", but no toolchain of that type is installed there.
info: Configuration "default" will build with toolchain "C30" at "/Applications/microchip/mplabc30/v3.30c/bin".



any ideas?

thanks



On May 2, 2012, at 4:09 PM, Jason Tribbeck wrote:

> On 2 May 2012 21:05, dan snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On May 2, 2012, at 3:59 PM, dan snazelle wrote:
> 
> > "Are you using MPLAB-X? I'm doing so right this minute, with dsPIC33 on MacOS X. The compiler download is on the main MPLAB-X download area.
> >>
> >> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/mplab/X/index.html
> >>
> >> Select Mac OS compiler, and tick the "MPLAB C30 Compiler" option. Click on "Download".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > i did what you said and went ahead and installed the compiler (the C30 option)
> >
> > however whenever i try to start a project i get this message which doesnt look too good (although it will let me go ahead and start my project)...anyone else seen this?
> >
> > thanks for all the help
> >
> >
> >         Missing Files
>  
> <snip>
>  
> > C:/Program Files/Microchip/MPLAB C30/lib/libq-dsp-coff.a
> >
> 
> i suppose this could be because I am trying to start a new project by opening up a project from the internet which was created on a PC (hence the C:/program files)
> maybe I will just start with a totally blank project
> 
> thanks for all your help
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to ask:
> 
> "Is it a new project, or one you've opened from a Windows machine?"
> 
> But gmail decided I had to log off and on again (grr).
> 
> Microchip are shipping a lot of their example projects with MPLABX project files, as well as MPLAB v8 project files. I think it'll have a stab at importing the v8 files, but I've never used them myself - all my projects I've started from scratch.
> -- 
> C isn't that hard: void (*(*f[])())() defines f as an array of unspecified size, of pointers to functions that return pointers to functions that return void



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Wed May  2 22:41:18 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 21:41:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (OT)DSPIC compiler for MPLABX-IDE on MAC OSX?
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP680A0189DE098B52B9A71EC82E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP180E25E210D2EC4C27C7570C8290@phx.gbl>
	<CAL3=FbYvm-1_VbUDAs1pVVK8BtZK4LM46E9RRgbFXYvZon1D+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<21591AF2-6BCC-4454-8231-02F3A77DE67C@hotmail.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP26415613078225B9D1BBB44C82E0@phx.gbl>
	<CAL3=Fba99z78+C3N074yS-eh5brHwH0WgfGAS1JVx3=UPLLSTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP680A0189DE098B52B9A71EC82E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4FA19BEE.2000204@ntlworld.com>

Dan,

dan snazelle wrote:
> warning: Configuration "default" builds with "C30" at "C:\Program Files\Microchip\mplabc30\v3.30c\bin", but no toolchain of that type is installed there.
> info: Configuration "default" will build with toolchain "C30" at "/Applications/microchip/mplabc30/v3.30c/bin".
> warning: Configuration "default" builds with "C30" at "C:\Program Files\Microchip\mplabc30\v3.30c\bin", but no toolchain of that type is installed there.
> info: Configuration "default" will build with toolchain "C30" at "/Applications/microchip/mplabc30/v3.30c/bin".

Those are not errors, they are just warnings (the clue is in the 
"warning:" at the start of two of the lines).  I think what it is 
telling you is that it could not find the compiler in the DOS-like 
"C:\.." path so it is automatically substituting an OSX-like path to the 
main Applications folder.

You should be able to confirm this by checking the project properties in 
the "default" configuration.

My guess is that the new project should now compile.

Neil
-- 
Modules and more :: www.cesyg.com
Homepage :: www.njohnson.co.uk ::


From pic24hj at gmail.com  Thu May  3 02:27:05 2012
From: pic24hj at gmail.com (KD KD)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 02:27:05 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Mini-DSP or TI Mini-DSP for metal detector audio
In-Reply-To: <83EEDB9AA00D6B449EB022CF4EFEC3233386DC27@wdscexmb03.sc.wdc.com>
References: <83EEDB9AA00D6B449EB022CF4EFEC3233386DC27@wdscexmb03.sc.wdc.com>
Message-ID: <CADYQ7+gJ0qENVyyL1rLo8sNSmnLGTaDJ6kEGyhOyYKYN3peJ1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Check with http://www.geotech1.com/forums/index.php?s=5aa033a2960aa15a22c140cbaab60551
lot of competent folks there, it's THE forum for this sort of stuff.



2012/5/2, Barry Klein <Barry.L.Klein at wdc.com>:
> Second shot at sending this - I didn't see the first attempt work.  Sorry if
> duplicate...:
>
> One of my many "other" hobbies is metal detectors - DIY and use.
> I recently obtained one called a Minelab GP Extreme.  These models of
> detectors from Minelab do not have speakers - they rely upon headphone use.
> That's cool at the beach, but in the desert I'd like to be able to hear
> snakes if they make themselves known.
> These detectors typically have a constant audio output tone that is a little
> warbly but gets louder and/or varies in frequency if a target is detected.
> There was a product called Superfix that may have had a DSP inside to allow
> silence until a target is detected.  It was complicated to use though and
> very very expensive.
> I'm wondering if one of these mini-DSP things:
> http://www.minidsp.com/index.php would be worth trying on the detector audio
> and what features may be cool to have.
> TI also makes a series of chips with what are called mini-DSP (such as the
> PCM3070) I don't know if both are really using the same parts or not.
> Have any of you tried either of these?  I'd like to ask questions regarding
> their capabilities.
>
> Barry
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sun May  6 12:24:20 2012
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearc e)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 11:24:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Mini-DSP or TI Mini-DSP for metal detector audio
In-Reply-To: <83EEDB9AA00D6B449EB022CF4EFEC3233386DC27@wdscexmb03.sc.wdc.com>
References: <83EEDB9AA00D6B449EB022CF4EFEC3233386DC27@wdscexmb03.sc.wdc.com>
Message-ID: <4FA65154.8010402@gjcp.net>

On 02/05/12 21:17, Barry Klein wrote:

> These detectors typically have a constant audio output tone that is a little warbly but gets louder and/or varies in frequency if a target is detected.
> There was a product called Superfix that may have had a DSP inside to allow silence until a target is detected.  It was complicated to use though and very very expensive.

If the tone is more-or-less constant and changes pitch on detecting a 
target, couldn't you just notch out its "idle" state?

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon May  7 02:19:02 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 20:19:02 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Moog System 55 cabinet dimension..
Message-ID: <23389.1336349942@oricom.ca>

 
 

Does anybody have a Moog System 55
or have access to one ?
I need the external dimensions of the slant cabinet
and the top cabinet(s) of this beast.
The internal dimensions would be appreciated too.
I'm building a sys 55 clone and am in the cabinet making now.
I haven't been able so far to find any documants on that.
I know the sides, bottoms and tops are made of black oak 3/4" thick,
I figure the slant cabinet angle is around 15deg. and that the inner width
would be 8.125" X 22 U1 modules but that's only what I have so far.
Thanks

JP

 





From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon May  7 14:10:34 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 08:10:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] test..
Message-ID: <60727.1336392634@oricom.ca>




 


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Mon May  7 22:18:09 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 16:18:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] test - ignore
In-Reply-To: <CADYQ7+gJ0qENVyyL1rLo8sNSmnLGTaDJ6kEGyhOyYKYN3peJ1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1056726334.1015940.1336421889557.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

H^) harry


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Mon May  7 22:51:25 2012
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 22:51:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] sigrok - open-source logic analyser software
Message-ID: <20120507205125.GA7807@aym.net2.nerim.net>

http://lwn.net/Articles/495845/

Especially interesting for Linux users but even iCrosoft people
may benefit from a standard interface.

The third link points to a wiki page which could become a nice
cross-manufacturer selection matrix for logic analysers.

-- 
Andr? Majorel http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Mon May  7 23:49:16 2012
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (KA4HJH)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:49:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] OT: Philips radio factory, 1931
Message-ID: <p06240809cbcdf36d0a80@[192.168.1.70]>

Hand-blowing gargantuan vacuum tubes and other pieces of glass, complex
assembly line machinery, and lots of by-hand piecework.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSPBM_QbaKE

Absolutely amazing. The film itself is a work of art.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From pic24hj at gmail.com  Mon May  7 23:50:45 2012
From: pic24hj at gmail.com (KD KD)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 23:50:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Piezo sensor panel UI!
Message-ID: <CADYQ7+j8XxfkC=kOkJ0Get3JeXffpFvewiQ6bojVYhicb2irQg@mail.gmail.com>

Typical disk benders, odd name for regular piezo sensors, are made of a PZT,
lead, oxygen titanium or zircon compound ceramic doped into the proprieties
you want, Alesis Quadraverb is the only audio device i know of that used piezo
sensors for the button interface, press the button harder and the step speed
increased.

Why haven't anyone built a entire panel user interface? it would be dead cheap
applying the ceramic paste like solder paste, easily multiplexed, one rectifier
and clamp limiter for all sensors etc etc easily handed by a MCU A/D channel
and a routine to create dead zones and filtering to avoid multiple
sensor triggering
etc etc.

Imagine a typical button user interface synth i.e 250 tact buttons and
one slider,
a drag using conventional tact switches but with PZT zones one could press
the zone/button or just bang it to jump from lets say 10 to 200 value
and depending
on how hard you tap it step size could increase then tap lighter for
finer adjustment!

http://www.americanpiezo.com/standard-products/disc-benders.html


From pic24hj at gmail.com  Mon May  7 23:53:44 2012
From: pic24hj at gmail.com (KD KD)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 23:53:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Piezo sensor panel UI!
In-Reply-To: <CADYQ7+j8XxfkC=kOkJ0Get3JeXffpFvewiQ6bojVYhicb2irQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADYQ7+j8XxfkC=kOkJ0Get3JeXffpFvewiQ6bojVYhicb2irQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADYQ7+hczb5GZQTbrm1qGexW0GLAP_n_m0DnzBpieGVMjrO=5A@mail.gmail.com>

Typical disk benders, odd name for regular piezo sensors, are made
of a PZT, lead, oxygen titanium or zircon compound ceramic doped into
the proprieties  you want, Alesis Quadraverb is the only audio device i know
of that used piezo sensors for the button interface, press the button harder
and the step speed  increased.

Why haven't anyone built a entire panel user interface? it would be dead
cheap applying the ceramic paste like solder paste, easily multiplexed
one rectifier  and clamp limiter for all sensors etc etc easily handed by
a MCU A/D channel  and a routine to create dead zones and filtering to
avoid multiple sensor triggering  etc etc.

Imagine a typical button user interface synth i.e 250 tact buttons and
one slider, a drag using conventional tact switches but with PZT zones
one could press  the zone/button or just bang it to jump from lets say
10 to 200 value and depending on how hard you tap it step size could
increase then tap lighter for finer adjustment!

http://www.americanpiezo.com/standard-products/disc-benders.html


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue May  8 03:01:24 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (dan snazelle)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 21:01:24 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] OT( installing PICKIT2 drivers on OSX)
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>

I finally seem to have figured out that I need to install the PICKIT 2 drivers before I can use the PICKIT2 with mplab-x

however, all it is is a DAT file and a hex file and some instructions on using the terminal to install the files.

i am not very comfortable with TERMINAL and the way that MICROCHIP wrote it, well let me just say that it doesnt make me feel like I am going to get it to work.

(what a difference from Atmels product literature)

has anyone been down this road? can i install it without terminal?

(by simply copying the files to the write folders?(


any advice appreciated!





From jansmail at xs4all.nl  Tue May  8 09:20:14 2012
From: jansmail at xs4all.nl (rick)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 09:20:14 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] [admin msg] outage
Message-ID: <4FA8C92E.9080700@xs4all.nl>


Sorry for the outage yesterday, I exchanged the internet modem and forgot
to put the mail forward rule in place.

rick. [do not adjust your sets]




From thomas at pdp7.org  Tue May  8 09:33:36 2012
From: thomas at pdp7.org (Thomas Strathmann)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 09:33:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT( installing PICKIT2 drivers on OSX)
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4FA8CC50.8060100@pdp7.org>

On 08.05.12 03:01, dan snazelle wrote:
> I finally seem to have figured out that I need to install the PICKIT 2 drivers before I can use the PICKIT2 with mplab-x
> 
> however, all it is is a DAT file and a hex file and some instructions on using the terminal to install the files.
> 
> i am not very comfortable with TERMINAL and the way that MICROCHIP wrote it, well let me just say that it doesnt make me feel like I am going to get it to work.

The best way is to try things out (hey, if something goes terribly,
terribly wrong, you've got Time Machine to save the day). But if you are
not comfortable with using a shell to install stuff, then perhaps you
should really tackle that problem first (fun exercise, try to switch
Terminal.app to fullscreen and don't leave it for a week or so). I see
no reason using Mac OS for development stuff in the embedded domain
unless you really are comfortable with the Unixy stuff (i.e. shell,
building from sources, etc.) in the first place. The way it seems from
over here under my rock (I use Mac OS myself, almost exclusively so),
the grass is greener on the Windows side of town regarding the ease of
installing development tools.

	Thomas


From barryklein at cox.net  Tue May  8 16:29:59 2012
From: barryklein at cox.net (Barry Klein)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 07:29:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] [OT] Mini-DSP or TI Mini-DSP for metal detector audio
In-Reply-To: <4FA65154.8010402@gjcp.net>
References: <83EEDB9AA00D6B449EB022CF4EFEC3233386DC27@wdscexmb03.sc.wdc.com>
	<4FA65154.8010402@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <001501cd2d27$0c3fba90$24bf2fb0$@cox.net>

I suspect it is the kind of thing that you have to play around with various
parameters to find what is of most value.  The warble is sort of desired for
this type detector as it indicates your minimum threshold and that the unit
is working.  Any target will increase the loudness or frequency variation.
There is a Threshold setting as well as Volume and Tone.  So what may be of
most value is a processor that accentuates pitch change (by perhaps
different sound altogether) and loudness change by an expander.  Other
things of value may be some sort of target identifier that recognizes the
change in characteristics and gives a unique sound for each type of target.
Hair pins and nails for example have a quick double blip.  Iron targets
often sound different slightly from lead or gold.  
The warbling sound is often annoying to detectorists and those around them.
The goal of many tinkerers is to somehow reduce it to a steady tone by
designing out circuit noise and shielding out EMI.

Barry


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Gordon JC Pearc e
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 03:24
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] [OT] Mini-DSP or TI Mini-DSP for metal detector audio

On 02/05/12 21:17, Barry Klein wrote:

> These detectors typically have a constant audio output tone that is a
little warbly but gets louder and/or varies in frequency if a target is
detected.
> There was a product called Superfix that may have had a DSP inside to
allow silence until a target is detected.  It was complicated to use though
and very very expensive.

If the tone is more-or-less constant and changes pitch on detecting a 
target, couldn't you just notch out its "idle" state?

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From sines_list at scale.gs  Tue May  8 17:22:27 2012
From: sines_list at scale.gs (Todd Sines)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 11:22:27 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] IndieGogo: NYC Source of Uncertainty fest / Morton Subotnick
	Art on Air show
Message-ID: <DB3303FF-F8F7-4735-9714-820EECBE31EA@scale.gs>

My friend Abby Echiverri is organizing this show via Indiegogo -- and it needs your help!

Source of Uncertainty celebrates the Buchla 200e and DIY modular synthesis. Centering around two free New York City concerts, on June 28th and July 7th, the series is a collaborative initiative of New York-based curatorial organizations, Harvestworks and ((audience)), and takes place as part of the River to River festival.  The first event will feature a modular synth fair and we will be interviewing Buchla musicians for a program on Art on Air.  See bios, exhibitors, links below.

Thurs June 28th // South Street Seaport // 210 Front Street NYC
Control Voltage Faire 3-8pm
Buchla Recital ft Alessandro Cortini, Carlos Giffoni, Mark Verbos 8-10
Late concert ft Xeno & Oaklander and Loud Objects

Sat July 7 // Schimmel Arts Center // 3 Spruce Street NYC
Richard Lainhart tape piece 
Morton Subotnick premiers "Energy Shapes"

http://www.indiegogo.com/sourceofuncertainty
http://artonair.org/show/model-266-morton-subotnick

I had the pleasure to shoot Morton Subotnick & Mark Verbos for this video clip. Talk about N3RDING out!


+odd



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Tue May  8 20:45:43 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 14:45:43 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Moog System 55 cabinet dimension..
Message-ID: <51948.1336502743@oricom.ca>




 On Tue 08/05/12 14:47 , Tim Parkhurst tim.parkhurst at gmail.com sent:
> Aren't the Synth.Com modules and cabinets the same size? Maybe they've got
> a reasonable picture, or it might even be worth buying the cabinet from
> them.
> http://www.synthesizers.com/cabinets.html [1]
> 
> Tim (The Idiot in the Cupboard) Servo
> ---"Sire, the church of God is an anvil that has worn out many hammers." -
> H.L. Hastings
> 
> On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jean-Pierre Desrochers  wrote:
You are right they sell the cabinets I need
but I'd be happy to build them by myself..
I know there are sketches and plans ready
to be used somewhere..
But I am half done with the 'figuring' of all the dimensions
of both cabinets carefully looking at detailed pictures
of System 55 synths in some web sites.
JP


> 
> Does anybody have a Moog System 55
> or have access to one ?
> I need the external dimensions of the slant cabinet
> and the top cabinet(s) of this beast.
> The internal dimensions would be appreciated too.
> I'm building a sys 55 clone and am in the cabinet making now.
> I haven't been able so far to find any documants on that.
> I know the sides, bottoms and tops are made of black oak 3/4" thick,
> I figure the slant cabinet angle is around 15deg. and that the inner
> width
> would be 8.125" X 22 U1 modules but that's only what I have so far.
> Thanks
> 
> JP
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy [2]
> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://www.synthesizers.com/cabinets.html
> [2] http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 


From antoniotuzzi at gmail.com  Tue May  8 23:16:31 2012
From: antoniotuzzi at gmail.com (Antonio Tuzzi)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 23:16:31 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] ARP Sequencer running when touching
Message-ID: <CAJQ+xbhoUjNTqCxr502E6mk1HkqGL_hmSY+ATRdCJ_Ha1nQisQ@mail.gmail.com>

with the oscilloscope probe...

Hello friends,

I have a nice question for you much more experienced than me...

I'm repairing an arp seq 1611 ( long time n ot orking and stopped...)

I changed a lot of ICs...

I'm finding many faults:
dead led drivers, dead multiplexer, dead nor gates (those pesky CMOS 4xxx!!!!)

one 3904 and 2 3906 (dead all 3)

finally I had all the led working
and the step and reset button working

but the inner VCO is always stopped.

the inner VCO should charge a cap (0.1 ?f) and discharge following the voltage
the voltage enter a lm3086 where if the voltage drops under 7.5 volts,
there is a retring of the circuit

the IC 3086 is the marked Z5 on the schematics...

BUT

A)
when I touch the Z5 on pin 4 and 5 (they are connected)
the VCO starts! (and happy leds are dancng!)

Do you know why this is happening ? (I changed 3 3086 in the same place!)

B)
I tried to use a cap 0.47 nF cap (and others) connected to the same
pin and GND (far GND, not the GND connected to the 3086)
and the seq is running again


What I'm doing wrong ?

Thank you
Antonio


From dancemachine at gmail.com  Wed May  9 08:37:21 2012
From: dancemachine at gmail.com (Giorgio)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 02:37:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] [AH] IndieGogo: NYC Source of Uncertainty fest / Morton
	Subotnick Art on Air show
In-Reply-To: <DB3303FF-F8F7-4735-9714-820EECBE31EA@scale.gs>
References: <DB3303FF-F8F7-4735-9714-820EECBE31EA@scale.gs>
Message-ID: <0CAE63F0-1183-43EE-933D-392229FC1179@gmail.com>

these sound rad, do send out a reminder when they are closer if you remember thx



On May 8, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Todd Sines <sines_list at scale.gs> wrote:

> My friend Abby Echiverri is organizing this show via Indiegogo -- and it needs your help!
> 
> Source of Uncertainty celebrates the Buchla 200e and DIY modular synthesis. Centering around two free New York City concerts, on June 28th and July 7th, the series is a collaborative initiative of New York-based curatorial organizations, Harvestworks and ((audience)), and takes place as part of the River to River festival.  The first event will feature a modular synth fair and we will be interviewing Buchla musicians for a program on Art on Air.  See bios, exhibitors, links below.
> 
> Thurs June 28th // South Street Seaport // 210 Front Street NYC
> Control Voltage Faire 3-8pm
> Buchla Recital ft Alessandro Cortini, Carlos Giffoni, Mark Verbos 8-10
> Late concert ft Xeno & Oaklander and Loud Objects
> 
> Sat July 7 // Schimmel Arts Center // 3 Spruce Street NYC
> Richard Lainhart tape piece 
> Morton Subotnick premiers "Energy Shapes"
> 
> http://www.indiegogo.com/sourceofuncertainty
> http://artonair.org/show/model-266-morton-subotnick
> 
> I had the pleasure to shoot Morton Subotnick & Mark Verbos for this video clip. Talk about N3RDING out!
> 
> 
> +odd
> 


From jansmail at xs4all.nl  Wed May  9 10:52:37 2012
From: jansmail at xs4all.nl (rick)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 10:52:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT: What happened to Yamaha?...
In-Reply-To: <1335443932.39737.YahooMailClassic@web181711.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1335443932.39737.YahooMailClassic@web181711.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4FAA3055.1060109@xs4all.nl>

On 26/04/2012 14:38, Doug Terrebonne wrote:
> Also the fairly recent FS1R and DX200 offered an interesting take on FM

I bought an FS1R, second hand, but the thing has no programming metaphore
that I can relate to. Not a fun machine, but the demo sounds great.

r.


From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Wed May  9 11:36:21 2012
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 10:36:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: What happened to Yamaha?...
In-Reply-To: <4FAA3055.1060109@xs4all.nl>
References: <1335443932.39737.YahooMailClassic@web181711.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<4FAA3055.1060109@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6FF19035-99BA-11E1-A881-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>


On May 9, 2012, at 09:52, rick wrote:
> I bought an FS1R, second hand, but the thing has no programming 
> metaphor
> that I can relate to.
>

A phrase from a review of the Emu Morpheus sticks in the mind.

"Programming it is like trying to paint the hallway through the 
letterbox"

(It does sound very good though.)

cheers,
Dave



From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Wed May  9 13:45:57 2012
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 04:45:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] OT: What happened to Yamaha?...
In-Reply-To: <6FF19035-99BA-11E1-A881-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
References: <1335443932.39737.YahooMailClassic@web181711.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<4FAA3055.1060109@xs4all.nl>
	<6FF19035-99BA-11E1-A881-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <1336563957.18655.YahooMailRC@web181720.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Well it did originally ship with a software editor at least...

Doug



----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com>
> To: rick <jansmail at xs4all.nl>
> Cc: synthdiy diy <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 2:38:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] OT: What happened to Yamaha?...
> 
> 
> On May 9, 2012, at 09:52, rick wrote:
> > I bought an FS1R, second hand,  but the thing has no programming metaphor
> > that I can relate to.
> > 
> 
> A phrase from a review of the Emu Morpheus sticks in the  mind.
> 
> "Programming it is like trying to paint the hallway through the  letterbox"
> 
> (It does sound very good  though.)
> 
> cheers,
> Dave
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy  mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From pic24hj at gmail.com  Wed May  9 15:10:44 2012
From: pic24hj at gmail.com (KD KD)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 15:10:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT: What happened to Yamaha?...
In-Reply-To: <6FF19035-99BA-11E1-A881-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
References: <1335443932.39737.YahooMailClassic@web181711.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<4FAA3055.1060109@xs4all.nl>
	<6FF19035-99BA-11E1-A881-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <CADYQ7+jS8Oyi=NW55-dLicSq411+55kb35GMBvp=H0jTeskCDg@mail.gmail.com>

2012/5/9, Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com>:
>
> On May 9, 2012, at 09:52, rick wrote:
>> I bought an FS1R, second hand, but the thing has no programming
>> metaphor
>> that I can relate to.
>>
>
> A phrase from a review of the Emu Morpheus sticks in the mind.
> > "Programming it is like trying to paint the hallway through the
> letterbox"

Then TX16W was like painting the hallway through the keyhole!

Young people today simply cant comprehend what we the elderly
generation had to go through! :)

Orson Welles if he have had access to computer and printer would
have been delighted!


From davekendall at ntlworld.com  Wed May  9 15:33:39 2012
From: davekendall at ntlworld.com (Dave Kendall)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 14:33:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: What happened to Yamaha?...
In-Reply-To: <1336563957.18655.YahooMailRC@web181720.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1335443932.39737.YahooMailClassic@web181711.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<4FAA3055.1060109@xs4all.nl>
	<6FF19035-99BA-11E1-A881-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>
	<1336563957.18655.YahooMailRC@web181720.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <95F4A0C0-99DB-11E1-9A67-000393A85F9E@ntlworld.com>

I'd forgotten about that, mine being s/h. I really should get it sorted 
out...

cheers,
Dave

On May 9, 2012, at 12:45, Doug Terrebonne wrote:

> Well it did originally ship with a software editor at least...
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Dave Kendall <davekendall at ntlworld.com>
>> To: rick <jansmail at xs4all.nl>
>> Cc: synthdiy diy <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
>> Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 2:38:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] OT: What happened to Yamaha?...
>>
>>
>> On May 9, 2012, at 09:52, rick wrote:
>>> I bought an FS1R, second hand,  but the thing has no programming 
>>> metaphor
>>> that I can relate to.
>>>
>>
>> A phrase from a review of the Emu Morpheus sticks in the  mind.
>>
>> "Programming it is like trying to paint the hallway through the  
>> letterbox"
>>
>> (It does sound very good  though.)
>>
>> cheers,
>> Dave
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy  mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>



From courpignac at free.fr  Thu May 10 13:28:36 2012
From: courpignac at free.fr (DORIAN FREE)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 13:28:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Test
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>


Sorry ;)




From harrybissell at wowway.com  Fri May 11 14:35:56 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 08:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Expo HF compensation question
In-Reply-To: <CADYQ7+jS8Oyi=NW55-dLicSq411+55kb35GMBvp=H0jTeskCDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1893994097.1102761.1336739756276.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

How does the series resistor in expo VCOs like the Moog Rogue
work ?

H^) harry


From idris1er at hotmail.com  Fri May 11 15:03:25 2012
From: idris1er at hotmail.com (Idris El Kasri)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 15:03:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] =?windows-1256?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_Tune_drifting_problem_-_?=
 =?windows-1256?q?adapting_a_servo_conversion=FE?=
In-Reply-To: <SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>


? Hi everybody!

I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull, here's a pic :
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg

? The VCOs are totally incredible, I'd say comparable to Jurgen Haible's Living VCOs and maybe even fatter (without any kind of disrespect of the giant J.Haible's memory).. Some UA726 unfortunately passed away, Y.Usson kindely advised me to replace them by a tempco and a lm394/or ssm2210 (mat02 etc...)...

? The problem is that the tune drifts a lot!
For example, I tune it on a C2, 20s later it becomes ? B2 then a A#2 etc etc during maybe 1h or more then it would becomes higher and higher... big problem!

? Yves advised me to check conversion's capacitor (to put a low t? drift capacitor) and power supply's stability, which I did and the problem remains; he said that considering that there was no servo conversion on this old VCOs from the beginning of the 70s (having a look at the dates on the AOPs) I shoudn't hope very good stability...

? Here is the schematic of the VCO :
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/646/vco2shematic.jpg

?? I didn't found much documentation on the "servo conversion"...

Somebody could advise me some things to try to adapt a servo conversion on this VCOs? I m really lost...

I'm sure that if we can fix that pbm we could really have here some really wild VCOs...



? Cheers. ?  		 	   		   		 	   		   		 	   		  


From barryklein at cox.net  Fri May 11 16:39:38 2012
From: barryklein at cox.net (Barry Klein)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 07:39:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy]
	=?utf-8?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_Tune_drifting_problem_-_adaptin?=
	=?utf-8?q?g_a_servo_conversion=C3=BE?=
In-Reply-To: <SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>
	<SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000d01cd2f83$eb1251c0$c136f540$@cox.net>

Is the tempco resistor thermally connected to the 2210 or in ambient air?
Use a hot soldering iron (temporarily unpowered) to find the component that is otherwise thermally sensitive during operation and makes the frequency rise.

Barry


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Idris El Kasri
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 06:03
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - Tune drifting problem - adapting a servo conversion?


  Hi everybody!

I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull, here's a pic :
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg

  The VCOs are totally incredible, I'd say comparable to Jurgen Haible's Living VCOs and maybe even fatter (without any kind of disrespect of the giant J.Haible's memory).. Some UA726 unfortunately passed away, Y.Usson kindely advised me to replace them by a tempco and a lm394/or ssm2210 (mat02 etc...)...

  The problem is that the tune drifts a lot!
For example, I tune it on a C2, 20s later it becomes ? B2 then a A#2 etc etc during maybe 1h or more then it would becomes higher and higher... big problem!

  Yves advised me to check conversion's capacitor (to put a low t? drift capacitor) and power supply's stability, which I did and the problem remains; he said that considering that there was no servo conversion on this old VCOs from the beginning of the 70s (having a look at the dates on the AOPs) I shoudn't hope very good stability...

  Here is the schematic of the VCO :
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/646/vco2shematic.jpg

   I didn't found much documentation on the "servo conversion"...

Somebody could advise me some things to try to adapt a servo conversion on this VCOs? I m really lost...

I'm sure that if we can fix that pbm we could really have here some really wild VCOs...



  Cheers.    		 	   		   		 	   		   		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From rtarcan at superonline.com  Fri May 11 16:41:57 2012
From: rtarcan at superonline.com (rtarcan)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:41:57 +0300
Subject: [sdiy]
	=?windows-1256?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
	=?windows-1256?q?6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c?=
	=?windows-1256?b?Pz09P3dpbmRvd3MtMTI1Nj9RP29udmVyc2lvbv4=?=
In-Reply-To: <SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>
	<SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>

The tempco resistor only compansates VT parameter of transistor but not 
IEBS of transistors( Emetor -Bas saturation current of transistors) 
witch drifts too much with ambient temperature. But heating the 
transistors as used in uA726 compansates both...
On 11.05.2012 16:03, Idris El Kasri wrote:
>    Hi everybody!
>
> I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull, here's a pic :
> http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg
>
>    The VCOs are totally incredible, I'd say comparable to Jurgen Haible's Living VCOs and maybe even fatter (without any kind of disrespect of the giant J.Haible's memory).. Some UA726 unfortunately passed away, Y.Usson kindely advised me to replace them by a tempco and a lm394/or ssm2210 (mat02 etc...)...
>
>    The problem is that the tune drifts a lot!
> For example, I tune it on a C2, 20s later it becomes ? B2 then a A#2 etc etc during maybe 1h or more then it would becomes higher and higher... big problem!
>
>    Yves advised me to check conversion's capacitor (to put a low t? drift capacitor) and power supply's stability, which I did and the problem remains; he said that considering that there was no servo conversion on this old VCOs from the beginning of the 70s (having a look at the dates on the AOPs) I shoudn't hope very good stability...
>
>    Here is the schematic of the VCO :
> http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/646/vco2shematic.jpg
>
>     I didn't found much documentation on the "servo conversion"...
>
> Somebody could advise me some things to try to adapt a servo conversion on this VCOs? I m really lost...
>
> I'm sure that if we can fix that pbm we could really have here some really wild VCOs...
>
>
>
>    Cheers.    		 	   		   		 	   		   		 	   		
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com  Fri May 11 16:49:21 2012
From: Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com (Gergo Palatinszky)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 14:49:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?windows-1256?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
 =?windows-1256?q?6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c=3F=3D?=
 =?windows-1256?b?PT93aW5kb3dzLTEyNTY/UT9vbnZlcnNpb27+?=
In-Reply-To: <4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>
	<SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>
	<4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
Message-ID: <174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>

Hi,

What about using a 3046(3086) and use one of the spare transistor inside as heater ... ASM-2 did this way if I'm right ....

Br,
         Pala


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of rtarcan
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 4:42 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?

The tempco resistor only compansates VT parameter of transistor but not IEBS of transistors( Emetor -Bas saturation current of transistors) witch drifts too much with ambient temperature. But heating the transistors as used in uA726 compansates both...
On 11.05.2012 16:03, Idris El Kasri wrote:
>    Hi everybody!
>
> I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull, here's a pic :
> http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg
>
>    The VCOs are totally incredible, I'd say comparable to Jurgen Haible's Living VCOs and maybe even fatter (without any kind of disrespect of the giant J.Haible's memory).. Some UA726 unfortunately passed away, Y.Usson kindely advised me to replace them by a tempco and a lm394/or ssm2210 (mat02 etc...)...
>
>    The problem is that the tune drifts a lot!
> For example, I tune it on a C2, 20s later it becomes ? B2 then a A#2 etc etc during maybe 1h or more then it would becomes higher and higher... big problem!
>
>    Yves advised me to check conversion's capacitor (to put a low t? drift capacitor) and power supply's stability, which I did and the problem remains; he said that considering that there was no servo conversion on this old VCOs from the beginning of the 70s (having a look at the dates on the AOPs) I shoudn't hope very good stability...
>
>    Here is the schematic of the VCO :
> http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/646/vco2shematic.jpg
>
>     I didn't found much documentation on the "servo conversion"...
>
> Somebody could advise me some things to try to adapt a servo conversion on this VCOs? I m really lost...
>
> I'm sure that if we can fix that pbm we could really have here some really wild VCOs...
>
>
>
>    Cheers.    		 	   		   		 	   		   		 	   		
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com  Fri May 11 16:57:48 2012
From: Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com (Gergo Palatinszky)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 14:57:48 +0000
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?windows-1256?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
 =?windows-1256?q?6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c=3F=3D?=
 =?windows-1256?b?PT93aW5kb3dzLTEyNTY/UT9vbnZlcnNpb27+?=
In-Reply-To: <174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>
	<SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>
	<4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
	<174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>
Message-ID: <174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC80868692B@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>

Yep... check page 14. and 15. here:
http://www.elby-designs.com/contents/en-us/asm2-schematics.pdf



-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Gergo Palatinszky
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 4:49 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?

Hi,

What about using a 3046(3086) and use one of the spare transistor inside as heater ... ASM-2 did this way if I'm right ....

Br,
         Pala


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of rtarcan
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 4:42 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?

The tempco resistor only compansates VT parameter of transistor but not IEBS of transistors( Emetor -Bas saturation current of transistors) witch drifts too much with ambient temperature. But heating the transistors as used in uA726 compansates both...
On 11.05.2012 16:03, Idris El Kasri wrote:
>    Hi everybody!
>
> I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull, here's a pic :
> http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg
>
>    The VCOs are totally incredible, I'd say comparable to Jurgen Haible's Living VCOs and maybe even fatter (without any kind of disrespect of the giant J.Haible's memory).. Some UA726 unfortunately passed away, Y.Usson kindely advised me to replace them by a tempco and a lm394/or ssm2210 (mat02 etc...)...
>
>    The problem is that the tune drifts a lot!
> For example, I tune it on a C2, 20s later it becomes ? B2 then a A#2 etc etc during maybe 1h or more then it would becomes higher and higher... big problem!
>
>    Yves advised me to check conversion's capacitor (to put a low t? drift capacitor) and power supply's stability, which I did and the problem remains; he said that considering that there was no servo conversion on this old VCOs from the beginning of the 70s (having a look at the dates on the AOPs) I shoudn't hope very good stability...
>
>    Here is the schematic of the VCO :
> http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/646/vco2shematic.jpg
>
>     I didn't found much documentation on the "servo conversion"...
>
> Somebody could advise me some things to try to adapt a servo conversion on this VCOs? I m really lost...
>
> I'm sure that if we can fix that pbm we could really have here some really wild VCOs...
>
>
>
>    Cheers.    		 	   		   		 	   		   		 	   		
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From idris1er at hotmail.com  Fri May 11 18:23:51 2012
From: idris1er at hotmail.com (Idris El Kasri)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 18:23:51 +0200
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?windows-1256?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_Tune_drifting_problem_-_?=
 =?windows-1256?q?adapting_a_servo_conversion=FE?=
In-Reply-To: <72AA0F46-BB45-45BD-903B-68F1ADD53000@wintherstormer.no>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>
	<SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>,
	<72AA0F46-BB45-45BD-903B-68F1ADD53000@wintherstormer.no>
Message-ID: <SNT110-W38CEBBEA475D6159003BE78C170@phx.gbl>


Hi Terje, yes the front panel's design looks like Maplin but the conception inside has nothing to do with it.





----------------------------------------


> From: terje.winther at wintherstormer.no


> To: idris1er at hotmail.com


> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - Tune drifting problem - adapting a servo conversion?


> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:17:07 +0200


>


> Just curious, but this modular sort of reminds me of how the Maplin


> 5600 looks. Is that just a coincidence?


>


> > I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned


> > by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull,


> > here's a pic :


> > http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg


>


>


> Terje Winther


> terje.winther at wintherstormer.no


> http://www.wintherstormer.no/


>


>


>


>






----------------------------------------
> From: terje.winther at wintherstormer.no
> To: idris1er at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - Tune drifting problem - adapting a servo conversion?
> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:17:07 +0200
>
> Just curious, but this modular sort of reminds me of how the Maplin
> 5600 looks. Is that just a coincidence?
>
> > I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned
> > by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull,
> > here's a pic :
> > http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg
>
>
> Terje Winther
> terje.winther at wintherstormer.no
> http://www.wintherstormer.no/
>
>
>
>
 		 	   		  


From idris1er at hotmail.com  Fri May 11 18:44:38 2012
From: idris1er at hotmail.com (Idris El Kasri)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 18:44:38 +0200
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?windows-1256?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
 =?windows-1256?q?6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c=3F=3D?=
 =?windows-1256?b?PT93aW5kb3dzLTEyNTY/UT9vbnZlcnNpb27+?=
In-Reply-To: <4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>, ,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>, ,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>, ,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>,
	<4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
Message-ID: <SNT110-W3944CDE696F567D9A01BB08C170@phx.gbl>


? Interesting! Do you think a servo convertion with a matched pair would solve that?

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:41:57 +0300
> From: rtarcan at superonline.com
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
>
> The tempco resistor only compansates VT parameter of transistor but not
> IEBS of transistors( Emetor -Bas saturation current of transistors)
> witch drifts too much with ambient temperature. But heating the
> transistors as used in uA726 compansates both...
> On 11.05.2012 16:03, Idris El Kasri wrote:
> > Hi everybody!
> >
> > I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull, here's a pic :
> > http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg
> >
> > The VCOs are totally incredible, I'd say comparable to Jurgen Haible's Living VCOs and maybe even fatter (without any kind of disrespect of the giant J.Haible's memory).. Some UA726 unfortunately passed away, Y.Usson kindely advised me to replace them by a tempco and a lm394/or ssm2210 (mat02 etc...)...
> >
> > The problem is that the tune drifts a lot!
> > For example, I tune it on a C2, 20s later it becomes ? B2 then a A#2 etc etc during maybe 1h or more then it would becomes higher and higher... big problem!
> >
> > Yves advised me to check conversion's capacitor (to put a low t? drift capacitor) and power supply's stability, which I did and the problem remains; he said that considering that there was no servo conversion on this old VCOs from the beginning of the 70s (having a look at the dates on the AOPs) I shoudn't hope very good stability...
> >
> > Here is the schematic of the VCO :
> > http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/646/vco2shematic.jpg
> >
> > I didn't found much documentation on the "servo conversion"...
> >
> > Somebody could advise me some things to try to adapt a servo conversion on this VCOs? I m really lost...
> >
> > I'm sure that if we can fix that pbm we could really have here some really wild VCOs...
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
 		 	   		  


From Alan.Needham at centrica.com  Fri May 11 18:56:10 2012
From: Alan.Needham at centrica.com (Needham, Alan)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:56:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy]
	=?windows-1255?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
	=?windows-1255?q?6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c?=
	=?windows-1255?b?Pz09P3dpbmRvd3MtMTI1Nj9RP29udmVyc2lvbv4=?=
In-Reply-To: <174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl><SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl><4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
	<174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>
Message-ID: <7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D8042BCA15@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>

The PE Minisonic had an oven as an option.
http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/synth/pe_mini/pe_mini_feb_75.pdf
 Circuit on magazine page 145 (pdf page 6 of 7)
I remember it taking about a minute to settle.


-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Gergo Palatinszky
Sent: 11 May 2012 15:49
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?

Hi,

What about using a 3046(3086) and use one of the spare transistor inside as heater ... ASM-2 did this way if I'm right ....

Br,
         Pala



_____________________________________________________________________
The information contained in or attached to this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy,distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. It may contain information which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in jurisdictions outside England and Wales).

The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or employees make no representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or completeness unless expressly stated to the contrary.

British Gas Services Limited and Centrica Energy (Trading) Limited, both wholly owned subsidiaries of Centrica PLC, are authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.

Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD

Registered in England No 3141243.  

Centrica plc

Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD

Registered in England and Wales No 3033654


From idris1er at hotmail.com  Fri May 11 19:07:27 2012
From: idris1er at hotmail.com (Idris El Kasri)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 19:07:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?windows-1256?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
 =?windows-1256?q?6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c=3F=3D?=
 =?windows-1256?b?PT93aW5kb3dzLTEyNTY/UT9vbnZlcnNpb27+?=
In-Reply-To: <7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D8042BCA15@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>, ,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>, ,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>, ,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl><SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl><4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>,
	<174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>,
	<7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D8042BCA15@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>
Message-ID: <SNT110-W15A5BDDF3760E3621C176D8C170@phx.gbl>


? Very interesting, as Gergo's suggestion..
Do you think I could try that with 10V without any modification (as it is 9V for the Minisonic) ?

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:56:10 +0100
> From: Alan.Needham at centrica.com
> To: Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
>
> The PE Minisonic had an oven as an option.
> http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/synth/pe_mini/pe_mini_feb_75.pdf
> Circuit on magazine page 145 (pdf page 6 of 7)
> I remember it taking about a minute to settle.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Gergo Palatinszky
> Sent: 11 May 2012 15:49
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
>
> Hi,
>
> What about using a 3046(3086) and use one of the spare transistor inside as heater ... ASM-2 did this way if I'm right ....
>
> Br,
> Pala
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> The information contained in or attached to this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy,distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. It may contain information which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in jurisdictions outside England and Wales).
>
> The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or employees make no representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or completeness unless expressly stated to the contrary.
>
> British Gas Services Limited and Centrica Energy (Trading) Limited, both wholly owned subsidiaries of Centrica PLC, are authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.
>
> Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD
>
> Registered in England No 3141243.
>
> Centrica plc
>
> Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD
>
> Registered in England and Wales No 3033654
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
 		 	   		  


From idris1er at hotmail.com  Fri May 11 19:39:53 2012
From: idris1er at hotmail.com (Idris El Kasri)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 19:39:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?windows-1256?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
 =?windows-1256?q?6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c=3F=3D?=
 =?windows-1256?b?PT93aW5kb3dzLTEyNTY/UT9vbnZlcnNpb27+?=
In-Reply-To: <SNT110-W15A5BDDF3760E3621C176D8C170@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	,,<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	,,<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>, , ,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl><SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl><4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>,
	,
	<174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>,
	,
	<7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D8042BCA15@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>,
	<SNT110-W15A5BDDF3760E3621C176D8C170@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT110-W484B8BB885AF339C307C278C170@phx.gbl>


?So you guys think the solution is an oven with a simple conversion with one transistor...
Is it possible/usefull to add a servo conversion to that? could it improve stability? tracking?

----------------------------------------
> From: idris1er at hotmail.com
> To: alan.needham at centrica.com; gergo_palatinszky at epam.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 19:07:27 +0200
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
>
>
>   Very interesting, as Gergo's suggestion..
> Do you think I could try that with 10V without any modification (as it is 9V for the Minisonic) ?
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:56:10 +0100
> > From: Alan.Needham at centrica.com
> > To: Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
> >
> > The PE Minisonic had an oven as an option.
> > http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/synth/pe_mini/pe_mini_feb_75.pdf
> > Circuit on magazine page 145 (pdf page 6 of 7)
> > I remember it taking about a minute to settle.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Gergo Palatinszky
> > Sent: 11 May 2012 15:49
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > What about using a 3046(3086) and use one of the spare transistor inside as heater ... ASM-2 did this way if I'm right ....
> >
> > Br,
> > Pala
> >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> > The information contained in or attached to this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy,distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. It may contain information which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in jurisdictions outside England and Wales).
> >
> > The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or employees make no representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or completeness unless expressly stated to the contrary.
> >
> > British Gas Services Limited and Centrica Energy (Trading) Limited, both wholly owned subsidiaries of Centrica PLC, are authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.
> >
> > Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD
> >
> > Registered in England No 3141243.
> >
> > Centrica plc
> >
> > Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD
> >
> > Registered in England and Wales No 3033654
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
 		 	   		  


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Fri May 11 19:40:39 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 13:40:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?utf-8?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-1256=3FQ?=
 =?utf-8?q?=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows?=
 =?utf-8?b?LTEyNTY/UT9vbnZlcnNpb27igI8=?=
In-Reply-To: <SNT110-W15A5BDDF3760E3621C176D8C170@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5892307.1109468.1336758039004.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

Hmmm...  the voltage is probably not much of an issue imho.  There were many of these designs... some can
be found in applications notes from National Semiconductor and Linear Technology (look for Jim Williams as
author). I'm suspicious of this particular design as it uses the differential pair as the heater and sensor... and these the are the transistors with the best matching (they would all be good, but this pair is specified to match).
Other designs used different transistors and reserved the differential pair for the VCOs. There are better and worse
transistors to use for the heater and sensor, maybe someone on list knows more than me. Be sure to connect the substrate pin to a more negative voltage than any other point in the circuit, but watch out for the maximum voltage
rating on the chip (+/-15V is TOO much and you need to limit the applied voltage to less).

ASA

H^) harry

----- Original Message -----
From: Idris El Kasri <idris1er at hotmail.com>
To: alan needham <alan.needham at centrica.com>, gergo palatinszky <gergo_palatinszky at epam.com>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Sent: Fri, 11 May 2012 13:07:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?


? Very interesting, as Gergo's suggestion..
Do you think I could try that with 10V without any modification (as it is 9V for the Minisonic) ?

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:56:10 +0100
> From: Alan.Needham at centrica.com
> To: Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
>
> The PE Minisonic had an oven as an option.
> http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/synth/pe_mini/pe_mini_feb_75.pdf
> Circuit on magazine page 145 (pdf page 6 of 7)
> I remember it taking about a minute to settle.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Gergo Palatinszky
> Sent: 11 May 2012 15:49
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
>
> Hi,
>
> What about using a 3046(3086) and use one of the spare transistor inside as heater ... ASM-2 did this way if I'm right ....
>
> Br,
> Pala
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> The information contained in or attached to this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy,distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. It may contain information which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in jurisdictions outside England and Wales).
>
> The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or employees make no representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or completeness unless expressly stated to the contrary.
>
> British Gas Services Limited and Centrica Energy (Trading) Limited, both wholly owned subsidiaries of Centrica PLC, are authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.
>
> Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD
>
> Registered in England No 3141243.
>
> Centrica plc
>
> Registered office: Millstream, Maidenhead Road, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 5GD
>
> Registered in England and Wales No 3033654
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From kevinvanwulpen at gmail.com  Fri May 11 20:17:06 2012
From: kevinvanwulpen at gmail.com (Kevin Vanwulpen)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 11:17:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] OT( installing PICKIT2 drivers on OSX)
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4FAD57A2.9050800@gmail.com>

I know it works with PICKIT3 (in some cases however you first need to 
connect it to a PC to update the PICKIT's firmware aaaargh).

For PICKIT2 I personally I run WindowsXP under a VM (Virtuabox, VMWare, 
Parallels or the like)...never had any issues.
On the PICKIT2 page they do seem to have the PK2CMD utility for Linux 
and Mac, so if that works you could program from the command-line.

> I finally seem to have figured out that I need to install the PICKIT 2 drivers before I can use the PICKIT2 with mplab-x
> however, all it is is a DAT file and a hex file and some instructions on using the terminal to install the files.
> i am not very comfortable with TERMINAL and the way that MICROCHIP wrote it, well let me just say that it doesnt make me feel like I am going to get it to work.
> (what a difference from Atmels product literature)
> has anyone been down this road? can i install it without terminal?
> (by simply copying the files to the write folders?(
>
> any advice appreciated!
>



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Fri May 11 22:33:29 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 13:33:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy]
	=?windows-1255?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
	=?windows-1255?q?6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c?=
	=?windows-1255?b?Pz09P3dpbmRvd3MtMTI1Nj9RP29udmVyc2lvbv4=?=
In-Reply-To: <4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl><SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>
	<4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
Message-ID: <7FAD62D650F94B708667AA4AD0A873CE@galvanox01>

> The tempco resistor only compansates VT parameter of 
> transistor but not IEBS of transistors( Emetor -Bas 
> saturation current of transistors) witch drifts too much with 
> ambient temperature. But heating the transistors as used in 
> uA726 compansates both...

Actually, if the transistors are relatively well matched and in thermal
contact (as they would be in a dual package), then wiring them in
common-emitter mode automatically compensates for I_S.



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Fri May 11 22:37:06 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 13:37:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy]
	=?windows-1255?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
	=?windows-1255?q?6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c?=
	=?windows-1255?b?Pz09P3dpbmRvd3MtMTI1Nj9RP29udmVyc2lvbv4=?=
In-Reply-To: <SNT110-W484B8BB885AF339C307C278C170@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>, , ,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>, , ,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>, , ,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl><SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl><4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>,
	,
	<174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>,
	,
	<7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D8042BCA15@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>,
	<SNT110-W15A5BDDF3760E3621C176D8C170@phx.gbl>
	<SNT110-W484B8BB885AF339C307C278C170@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D57700DE9DA844A8AD8B207A07B1F4E6@galvanox01>

> ?So you guys think the solution is an oven with a simple 
> conversion with one transistor...
> Is it possible/usefull to add a servo conversion to that? 
> could it improve stability? tracking?

I wouldn't do it that way!  I'd simply use a matched pair, and put one of
them in the feedback loop of an opamp current servo.  Check out the Thomas
Henry VCO-1 schematic on Scott Stites's "Birth of a Synth" site for details.
It would help if the voltage reference for this servo came from a
temperature-stable voltage reference (like a bandgap reference) rather than
directly from the rail.



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Fri May 11 22:45:48 2012
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 14:45:48 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] =?windows-1256?q?_Re=3A__Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwin?=
 =?windows-1256?q?dows-125_6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo?=
 =?windows-1256?b?IGMgPz0gID0/aXNvLTg4NTktMT9RP29udmVyc2lvbv4=?=
In-Reply-To: <7FAD62D650F94B708667AA4AD0A873CE@galvanox01>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>
	<SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>
	<4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
	<7FAD62D650F94B708667AA4AD0A873CE@galvanox01>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20120511143659.026dd488@mail.comcast.net>

At 02:33 PM 5/11/2012, David G Dixon wrote:
> > The tempco resistor only compansates VT parameter of
> > transistor but not IEBS of transistors( Emetor -Bas
> > saturation current of transistors) witch drifts too much with
> > ambient temperature. But heating the transistors as used in
> > uA726 compansates both...
>
>Actually, if the transistors are relatively well matched and in thermal
>contact (as they would be in a dual package), then wiring them in
>common-emitter mode automatically compensates for I_S.

Correct. The I_S temperature dependence can be removed either by using a 
matched pair or by thermostating.  There are designs that do both, for some 
reason, and this can be confusing.  But as pointed out above, if you use a 
matched pair you additionally need to add the tempco resistor to compensate 
the 1/T term in the exponent.  This is not needed with thermostating.

Ian   



From idris1er at hotmail.com  Sat May 12 01:08:45 2012
From: idris1er at hotmail.com (Idris El Kasri)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 01:08:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?windows-1256?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-125?=
 =?windows-1256?q?_6=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c_=3F?=
 =?windows-1256?q?=3D__=3D=3Fiso-8859-1=3FQ=3Fonversion=FE?=
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20120511143659.026dd488@mail.comcast.net>
References: <BLU0-SMTP12018323DBC99E1F868E3B3C8100@phx.gbl>,
	<CBD17304.25A27%courpignac@free.fr>,
	<SNT110-W12CF4795590BDB3FB259158C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W35D687F0B84F876F4382ED8C160@phx.gbl>,
	<SNT110-W5147F251FAAB837A2223678C170@phx.gbl>,
	<4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>,
	<7FAD62D650F94B708667AA4AD0A873CE@galvanox01>,
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120511143659.026dd488@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <SNT110-W46CFE6DEBDC4417226D8DA8C170@phx.gbl>


? Ok, thanx for helping me to understand that!
So 2 solutions :
? 1) Thermostating, something like the Minisonic as advised by Allan Needham
? 2) Using a matched pair

I apologize for my poor level of knowledge in electronics but I have great difficulties in understanding how to put a matched pair in my schematic :
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/646/vco2shematic.jpg

? I ve tried that unsuccesfuly :
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1861/servow.jpg
? Then that, no results either...
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1861/servow.jpg


----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 14:45:48 -0600
> To: dixon at mail.ubc.ca; rtarcan at superonline.com; synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> From: ijfritz at comcast.net
> Subject: [sdiy] Re: Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-125 6?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c ?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?onversion?
>
> At 02:33 PM 5/11/2012, David G Dixon wrote:
> > > The tempco resistor only compansates VT parameter of
> > > transistor but not IEBS of transistors( Emetor -Bas
> > > saturation current of transistors) witch drifts too much with
> > > ambient temperature. But heating the transistors as used in
> > > uA726 compansates both...
> >
> >Actually, if the transistors are relatively well matched and in thermal
> >contact (as they would be in a dual package), then wiring them in
> >common-emitter mode automatically compensates for I_S.
>
> Correct. The I_S temperature dependence can be removed either by using a
> matched pair or by thermostating. There are designs that do both, for some
> reason, and this can be confusing. But as pointed out above, if you use a
> matched pair you additionally need to add the tempco resistor to compensate
> the 1/T term in the exponent. This is not needed with thermostating.
>
> Ian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
 		 	   		  


From pic24hj at gmail.com  Mon May 14 00:32:40 2012
From: pic24hj at gmail.com (KD KD)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 00:32:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Duuuude test!
Message-ID: <CADYQ7+jhCw=eSqyg-VNUPbQPO2+hp+MvncYm8kdW-XNu0W9_1w@mail.gmail.com>

testing 1,2,3!


From louis at dompselaar.org  Mon May 14 07:45:08 2012
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 07:45:08 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Small warning Futurlec 2SC945
Message-ID: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>

I've just found out that a full batch of 2SC945 I ordered from Futurlec late 2010 turned out to be KSC945.
Same component (I think), same marking "C945", but different pinout!

So I thought I'd mention in case someone else is wondering why their project seems to have all dead transistors, like I was yesterday...



From chris at chrismusic.de  Mon May 14 13:37:46 2012
From: chris at chrismusic.de (ChristianH)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:37:46 +0200
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-1256?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c=3F=3D=3D?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?=3Fwindows-1256=3FQ=3Fonversion=FE?=
In-Reply-To: <174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>
References: <4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
	<174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>
Message-ID: <20120514133345.7B2E.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

On Fri, 11 May 2012 14:49:21 +0000 Gergo Palatinszky <Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> What about using a 3046(3086) and use one of the spare transistor inside as heater ... ASM-2 did this way if I'm right ....
> 
> Br,
>          Pala


The Doepfer MS-404 did it too: http://www.doepfer.de/ms404_sm.htm
(O2 below the expo pair/glide is the heater regulator)

Chris



> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of rtarcan
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 4:42 PM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
> 
> The tempco resistor only compansates VT parameter of transistor but not IEBS of transistors( Emetor -Bas saturation current of transistors) witch drifts too much with ambient temperature. But heating the transistors as used in uA726 compansates both...
> On 11.05.2012 16:03, Idris El Kasri wrote:
> >    Hi everybody!
> >
> > I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull, here's a pic :
> > http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg
> >
> >    The VCOs are totally incredible, I'd say comparable to Jurgen Haible's Living VCOs and maybe even fatter (without any kind of disrespect of the giant J.Haible's memory).. Some UA726 unfortunately passed away, Y.Usson kindely advised me to replace them by a tempco and a lm394/or ssm2210 (mat02 etc...)...
> >
> >    The problem is that the tune drifts a lot!
> > For example, I tune it on a C2, 20s later it becomes ? B2 then a A#2 etc etc during maybe 1h or more then it would becomes higher and higher... big problem!
> >
> >    Yves advised me to check conversion's capacitor (to put a low t? drift capacitor) and power supply's stability, which I did and the problem remains; he said that considering that there was no servo conversion on this old VCOs from the beginning of the 70s (having a look at the dates on the AOPs) I shoudn't hope very good stability...
> >
> >    Here is the schematic of the VCO :
> > http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/646/vco2shematic.jpg
> >
> >     I didn't found much documentation on the "servo conversion"...
> >
> > Somebody could advise me some things to try to adapt a servo conversion on this VCOs? I m really lost...
> >
> > I'm sure that if we can fix that pbm we could really have here some really wild VCOs...
> >
> >
> >
> >    Cheers.    		 	   		   		 	   		   		 	   		



From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Mon May 14 14:00:44 2012
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias Herrmann-DEU)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 14:00:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Old_unique_VCO_-_T=3F=3D=3D=3Fwindows-1256?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?=3FQ=3Fune_drifting_problem_-_adapting_a_servo_c=3F=3D=3D?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?=3Fwindows-1256=3FQ=3Fonversion=FE?=
In-Reply-To: <20120514133345.7B2E.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <4FAD2535.3040305@superonline.com>
	<174DD44EDEBA224ABA06E172DC2D8FC808686905@EPHUBUDSA0036.epam.com>
	<20120514133345.7B2E.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <5FE1FD85ECB40848A5F7C371A8F8F9E0A9A1A999@FRAPXCHMBX01.corp.gds.jeppesen.com>

and tom gamble's EFM VCO 3D:
http://www.modular.fonik.de/files/EFMforum/orgEFMfiles/vco3d.pdf

cheers,
matthias


> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of ChristianH
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:38 PM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting
> problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
> 
> On Fri, 11 May 2012 14:49:21 +0000 Gergo Palatinszky
> <Gergo_Palatinszky at epam.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > What about using a 3046(3086) and use one of the spare transistor
> inside as heater ... ASM-2 did this way if I'm right ....
> >
> > Br,
> >          Pala
> 
> 
> The Doepfer MS-404 did it too: http://www.doepfer.de/ms404_sm.htm
> (O2 below the expo pair/glide is the heater regulator)
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [mailto:synth-diy-
> bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of rtarcan
> > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 4:42 PM
> > To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Old unique VCO - T?==?windows-1256?Q?une drifting
> problem - adapting a servo c?==?windows-1256?Q?onversion?
> >
> > The tempco resistor only compansates VT parameter of transistor but
> not IEBS of transistors( Emetor -Bas saturation current of transistors)
> witch drifts too much with ambient temperature. But heating the
> transistors as used in uA726 compansates both...
> > On 11.05.2012 16:03, Idris El Kasri wrote:
> > >    Hi everybody!
> > >
> > > I got an old modular synth from the 70's that was previously owned
> by Brendon Pollard, and previously (the legend says) by Jethro Tull,
> here's a pic :
> > > http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/files/elvis_big_351.jpg
> > >
> > >    The VCOs are totally incredible, I'd say comparable to Jurgen
> Haible's Living VCOs and maybe even fatter (without any kind of
> disrespect of the giant J.Haible's memory).. Some UA726 unfortunately
> passed away, Y.Usson kindely advised me to replace them by a tempco and
> a lm394/or ssm2210 (mat02 etc...)...
> > >
> > >    The problem is that the tune drifts a lot!
> > > For example, I tune it on a C2, 20s later it becomes ? B2 then a
> A#2 etc etc during maybe 1h or more then it would becomes higher and
> higher... big problem!
> > >
> > >    Yves advised me to check conversion's capacitor (to put a low t?
> drift capacitor) and power supply's stability, which I did and the
> problem remains; he said that considering that there was no servo
> conversion on this old VCOs from the beginning of the 70s (having a
> look at the dates on the AOPs) I shoudn't hope very good stability...
> > >
> > >    Here is the schematic of the VCO :
> > > http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/646/vco2shematic.jpg
> > >
> > >     I didn't found much documentation on the "servo conversion"...
> > >
> > > Somebody could advise me some things to try to adapt a servo
> conversion on this VCOs? I m really lost...
> > >
> > > I'm sure that if we can fix that pbm we could really have here some
> really wild VCOs...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >    Cheers.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Mon May 14 15:13:59 2012
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (aankrom)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 09:13:59 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Small warning Futurlec 2SC945
In-Reply-To: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>
References: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <4ae311992fe8b90f8b78bd1effbd70f1@bluemarble.net>

This is very common for 2SC945/2SA733, It's either ECB or EBC. I've 
salvaged a lot of each and both configurations are common - although I 
think the ECB version is the more common. I've also noticed on 
transistors that I've salvaged that EBC units are sometimes marked with 
daubs of paint. Could just be a rare occurrence though.

AA

On Mon, 14 May 2012 07:45:08 +0200, Louis van Dompselaar wrote:
> I've just found out that a full batch of 2SC945 I ordered from
> Futurlec late 2010 turned out to be KSC945.
> Same component (I think), same marking "C945", but different pinout!
>
> So I thought I'd mention in case someone else is wondering why their
> project seems to have all dead transistors, like I was yesterday...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From itsfatmike at gmail.com  Tue May 15 16:57:19 2012
From: itsfatmike at gmail.com (mike schmidt)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 10:57:19 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for MP7614 (14 bit multiplying DAC)
In-Reply-To: <4ae311992fe8b90f8b78bd1effbd70f1@bluemarble.net>
References: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>
	<4ae311992fe8b90f8b78bd1effbd70f1@bluemarble.net>
Message-ID: <1F143DB2-BD3F-43D2-8F79-F21946118983@gmail.com>


Hi everyone!

I'm looking for an MP7614 multiplying dac for a Matrix 12 repair. Anyone happen to be holding? Even better if in the NYC area.

Thanks in advance!

-Mike

From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue May 15 22:00:39 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 21:00:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
Message-ID: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>

Hi All,

I'm having  spot of bother with an oscillator's CV mixer. The circuit is:

http://www.electricdruid.net/images/CVMixer.png

I've got a Note CV coming in to one end of R6, 0-5V, and I'm expecting to get 5V-0V out of the other end. The Offset trimmer adjusts the -5V offset that gets fed to the mixer. Seems simple enough on paper.

The problem I'm seeing is that changing the 1V/Oct trimmer seems to alter the offset as much as the scale. If I start with a low C and then try the octave above, I find perhaps a D. So I tweak the 1V/Oct trimmer until I have a C at the top. But when I go back to the low C, it's now a B. If I was trying this with several volts of CV (say a C at 4V and one an octave higher at 5V) then I'd understand why the bottom shifts too, but I'm seeing it at the lowest C on my ProOne (my CV source) which is only 0.15V. It should be 0V, but there's an offset on the ProOne's CV output - not that it should matter, I ought to be able to trim it out too.

Initially I had a lot of problems with the Offset trimmer because I had a 100K trimmer in there and the 100K input impedance wasn't enough for it to behave at all. Could the (still fairly high) combined 60K of the Offset trimmer cause this?

Sorry this is so confused, but if I knew better what the problem is, I might have sorted it out by now. Perhaps that's my answer. I was hoping someone could provide a idea which (even if not entirely relevant!) might let me see what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks,
Tom




From veronica at merryfield.ca  Tue May 15 22:26:23 2012
From: veronica at merryfield.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:26:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <C466D318-62E7-45E9-901E-A12B50E09E33@merryfield.ca>

If I read you and the schematic right, your offset is always going to be negative (-4.7v to -7.1v). The gain is always going to affect the offset since the gain will change the offset and the span. You are probably best off by setting the offset to a known value (DVM at PR1/R23), say -5v. Then set the gain to get the output you want. Check by putting a couple of known note CV inputs.

It is easier to have an offset designed to give you zero since zero times the gain is still zero.



On 2012-05-15, at 1:00 PM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I'm having  spot of bother with an oscillator's CV mixer. The circuit is:
> 
> http://www.electricdruid.net/images/CVMixer.png
> 
> I've got a Note CV coming in to one end of R6, 0-5V, and I'm expecting to get 5V-0V out of the other end. The Offset trimmer adjusts the -5V offset that gets fed to the mixer. Seems simple enough on paper.
> 
> The problem I'm seeing is that changing the 1V/Oct trimmer seems to alter the offset as much as the scale. If I start with a low C and then try the octave above, I find perhaps a D. So I tweak the 1V/Oct trimmer until I have a C at the top. But when I go back to the low C, it's now a B. If I was trying this with several volts of CV (say a C at 4V and one an octave higher at 5V) then I'd understand why the bottom shifts too, but I'm seeing it at the lowest C on my ProOne (my CV source) which is only 0.15V. It should be 0V, but there's an offset on the ProOne's CV output - not that it should matter, I ought to be able to trim it out too.
> 
> Initially I had a lot of problems with the Offset trimmer because I had a 100K trimmer in there and the 100K input impedance wasn't enough for it to behave at all. Could the (still fairly high) combined 60K of the Offset trimmer cause this?
> 
> Sorry this is so confused, but if I knew better what the problem is, I might have sorted it out by now. Perhaps that's my answer. I was hoping someone could provide a idea which (even if not entirely relevant!) might let me see what I'm doing wrong.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Tue May 15 22:33:08 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:33:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <1712929660.1185584.1337113988886.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

Looks to me like the gain trimmer will change the offset, for sure. This is how the design is. Its
simple but the adjustments interact. To get rid of that, use two opamps, one to set the gain and the other
to sum in the offset (with fixed gain). There are probably other ways as well...

H^) harry

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
To: synthdiy diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:00:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble

Hi All,

I'm having  spot of bother with an oscillator's CV mixer. The circuit is:

http://www.electricdruid.net/images/CVMixer.png

I've got a Note CV coming in to one end of R6, 0-5V, and I'm expecting to get 5V-0V out of the other end. The Offset trimmer adjusts the -5V offset that gets fed to the mixer. Seems simple enough on paper.

The problem I'm seeing is that changing the 1V/Oct trimmer seems to alter the offset as much as the scale. If I start with a low C and then try the octave above, I find perhaps a D. So I tweak the 1V/Oct trimmer until I have a C at the top. But when I go back to the low C, it's now a B. If I was trying this with several volts of CV (say a C at 4V and one an octave higher at 5V) then I'd understand why the bottom shifts too, but I'm seeing it at the lowest C on my ProOne (my CV source) which is only 0.15V. It should be 0V, but there's an offset on the ProOne's CV output - not that it should matter, I ought to be able to trim it out too.

Initially I had a lot of problems with the Offset trimmer because I had a 100K trimmer in there and the 100K input impedance wasn't enough for it to behave at all. Could the (still fairly high) combined 60K of the Offset trimmer cause this?

Sorry this is so confused, but if I knew better what the problem is, I might have sorted it out by now. Perhaps that's my answer. I was hoping someone could provide a idea which (even if not entirely relevant!) might let me see what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks,
Tom


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Tue May 15 22:34:05 2012
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 21:34:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <FB061E5159A0446F95F96FE8FFC1E7DF@homepc002>

Don't you just need to adjust the scaling pot PR2 first and locktight it, 
then null out any offset using the PR1 pot?

If you do it the other way round then adjusting the scaling pot PR2 will 
alter the gain applied to the offset voltage from PR1.

I think it may also be a good idea to have a resistor in series with the 
non-inverting input to the op-amp to balance the effects of input bias 
currents.

-Richie,

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Wiltshire" <tom at electricdruid.net>
To: "synthdiy diy" <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:00 PM
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble


> Hi All,
>
> I'm having  spot of bother with an oscillator's CV mixer. The circuit is:
>
> http://www.electricdruid.net/images/CVMixer.png
>
> I've got a Note CV coming in to one end of R6, 0-5V, and I'm expecting to 
> get 5V-0V out of the other end. The Offset trimmer adjusts the -5V offset 
> that gets fed to the mixer. Seems simple enough on paper.
>
> The problem I'm seeing is that changing the 1V/Oct trimmer seems to alter 
> the offset as much as the scale. If I start with a low C and then try the 
> octave above, I find perhaps a D. So I tweak the 1V/Oct trimmer until I 
> have a C at the top. But when I go back to the low C, it's now a B. If I 
> was trying this with several volts of CV (say a C at 4V and one an octave 
> higher at 5V) then I'd understand why the bottom shifts too, but I'm 
> seeing it at the lowest C on my ProOne (my CV source) which is only 0.15V. 
> It should be 0V, but there's an offset on the ProOne's CV output - not 
> that it should matter, I ought to be able to trim it out too.
>
> Initially I had a lot of problems with the Offset trimmer because I had a 
> 100K trimmer in there and the 100K input impedance wasn't enough for it to 
> behave at all. Could the (still fairly high) combined 60K of the Offset 
> trimmer cause this?
>
> Sorry this is so confused, but if I knew better what the problem is, I 
> might have sorted it out by now. Perhaps that's my answer. I was hoping 
> someone could provide a idea which (even if not entirely relevant!) might 
> let me see what I'm doing wrong.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Tue May 15 22:53:10 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 21:53:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <4FB2C236.3030901@ntlworld.com>

Hi Tom,

> I'm having  spot of bother with an oscillator's CV mixer. The circuit
> is:
>
> http://www.electricdruid.net/images/CVMixer.png
>
> I've got a Note CV coming in to one end of R6, 0-5V, and I'm
> expecting to get 5V-0V out of the other end. The Offset trimmer
> adjusts the -5V offset that gets fed to the mixer. Seems simple
> enough on paper.

As Veronica says, your "1v/oct" trimmer adjusts the gain of your summer, 
which will affect *both* inputs (CV and offset).

If you just want to adjust the CV gain then I suggest getting rid of PR2 
and making R6 your adjustable "1v/oct" trimmer.  You might want to 
fiddle with some of the values, and DO NOT use the supply rails directly 
for references - heck, even a zener would be better than all the crap 
coming in from the supply rails.

Neil
-- 
Modules and more :: www.cesyg.com
Homepage :: www.njohnson.co.uk ::


From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Tue May 15 23:03:07 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 22:03:07 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <FB061E5159A0446F95F96FE8FFC1E7DF@homepc002>
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
	<FB061E5159A0446F95F96FE8FFC1E7DF@homepc002>
Message-ID: <4FB2C48B.8030708@ntlworld.com>

Richie Burnett wrote:
> Don't you just need to adjust the scaling pot PR2 first and locktight
> it, then null out any offset using the PR1 pot?

As long as you have a frequency counter then yes that's work as well.

> I think it may also be a good idea to have a resistor in series with the
> non-inverting input to the op-amp to balance the effects of input bias
> currents.

If the op-amp is a FET type, e.g., TL072, then the bias currents are so 
small as to be worth it (typically 60-100pA).

Cheers
Neil
-- 
Modules and more :: www.cesyg.com
Homepage :: www.njohnson.co.uk ::


From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Tue May 15 23:39:53 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 22:39:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <4FB2C48B.8030708@ntlworld.com>
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
	<FB061E5159A0446F95F96FE8FFC1E7DF@homepc002>
	<4FB2C48B.8030708@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <4FB2CD29.80405@ntlworld.com>

On 15/05/2012 22:03, Neil Johnson wrote:
> If the op-amp is a FET type, e.g., TL072, then the bias currents are so
> small as to be worth it (typically 60-100pA).

*Ahem*

That should say:  "small as to NOT be worth it".

Some numbers: lets say 100pA.  Lets also say the impedance seen by the 
-ve pin is 50k (100k || 100k).  Voltage due to bias current is 5uV.

Neil
-- 
Modules and more :: www.cesyg.com
Homepage :: www.njohnson.co.uk ::


From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 16 00:02:18 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 23:02:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <4FB2C236.3030901@ntlworld.com>
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
	<4FB2C236.3030901@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <1A93EA0F-BFFB-4D46-91C3-72A8825F3E23@electricdruid.net>

Thanks everyone. Lots of good ideas and many different approaches.

I was able to get it working as Neil suggested below, by making the input resistor the variable part rather than the feedback resistor. I swapped R6 for PR2+R22 and bingo! The interaction disappears and the whole thing suddenly becomes *a lot* easier to tune.

Tom


On 15 May 2012, at 21:53, Neil Johnson wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
>> I'm having  spot of bother with an oscillator's CV mixer. The circuit
>> is:
>> 
>> http://www.electricdruid.net/images/CVMixer.png
>> 
>> I've got a Note CV coming in to one end of R6, 0-5V, and I'm
>> expecting to get 5V-0V out of the other end. The Offset trimmer
>> adjusts the -5V offset that gets fed to the mixer. Seems simple
>> enough on paper.
> 
> As Veronica says, your "1v/oct" trimmer adjusts the gain of your summer, which will affect *both* inputs (CV and offset).
> 
> If you just want to adjust the CV gain then I suggest getting rid of PR2 and making R6 your adjustable "1v/oct" trimmer.  You might want to fiddle with some of the values, and DO NOT use the supply rails directly for references - heck, even a zener would be better than all the crap coming in from the supply rails.
> 
> Neil
> -- 
> Modules and more :: www.cesyg.com
> Homepage :: www.njohnson.co.uk ::



From aurastar at cox.net  Wed May 16 01:00:21 2012
From: aurastar at cox.net (DTK)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:00:21 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Restoring "feel" on pots?
Message-ID: <FB7F513E636C411E8A8B4DD2CC8F2D73@AthlonXP>

A friend of mine brought me a Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer (Mk 1) to take a look 
at.  His initial complaint was that the pots and sliders had lost their 
"feel".  I figured this was just due to age, but I agreed to take a look and 
see if there was anything I could do.

Before I even opened it up, the thing reeked of some sort of solvent.  When 
I asked him about it, he told me that he had some scratchy pots, and he 
sprayed a couple of them with cleaner.  It apparently solved the 
scratchiness, but now the action on the pots is not as smooth as it used to 
be - he said they were "loose" and not as smooth as they used to be.

Upon opening it up, it became clear that he sprayed EVERYTHING... every 
knob, every slider, and got a lot of overspray all over the boards in the 
process.  He used something he found at Radio Shack - MG Chemicals  Nu-Trol 
Control Cleaner, which was apparently recommended by one of the rat shack 
minions.

Any suggestions on what I may be able to do to restore these pots?  I've 
never heard of the product he used, but it obviously destroyed the internal 
lubrication.

What about the overspray?  Alcohol?  Or should I just leave it be?  It seems 
pretty oily, and I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get it off just for 
cleanliness reasons.  It doesn't seem to be conductive - the mixer works 
fine, even with it all over the boards.

If anyone has any tips they would be much appreciated - otherwise, I'm just 
going to give it back and tell him he's lucky it still works.

Thanks!

DTK 



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Wed May 16 01:04:03 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:04:03 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <C7D3FC081F7E4DB39D0459825E1DAB0A@galvanox01>

With a circuit like this, you really complicate things by making the offset
adjustable.  I would just use 1% resistors, assume you've got a reasonably
accurate rail, and take what you get for 5V.

So, now, the question is, how do you get a 5V reference from the -15V rail?
Well, the answer is very simple!  Use three resistors equal to the feedback
resistor in a Y configuration: one to -15V, one to GND, and one to the
inverting input of the summer.  This will give you +5V out of the summer.
(That Thevenin shit really works!)

However, in this case, you should not really be all that concerned with
getting exactly +5V out of the summer.  What you should really be concerned
with is offsetting the CV input by the equivalent of -5V from the
perspective of the CV input itself.  In other words, if your CV is 3V, you
really want the summer to be seeing the equivalent of -2V. Hence, if you use
100k 1% resistors for the Y and for the CV input, you will have accomplished
the job already, irrespective of the actual feedback resistance (and,
therefore, the gain factor).  If the precision of the rail is truly a
concern, you can put a 1k or 2k trimmer in the Y and use that to make fine
adjustments.

As far as the gain trimmer is concerned, I would use a much smaller trimmer
relative to the fixed resistor, as this will give you a more precise
adjustment.  Hence, instead of a 100k trimmer and a 47k fixed resistor, I
would use a 20k trimmer and a 91k fixed resistor.  Or, better yet, if you
are sticking with 1% resistors (which you really should for this sort of
application, since they have better temperature specs), then you can use a
10k trimmer and a 95.3k resistor, or (better still) a 5k trimmer and a 97.6k
resistor.

My $0.02 for what it's worth.



From colin at colinfraser.com  Wed May 16 01:20:32 2012
From: colin at colinfraser.com (Colin f)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 00:20:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Restoring "feel" on pots?
In-Reply-To: <FB7F513E636C411E8A8B4DD2CC8F2D73@AthlonXP>
References: <FB7F513E636C411E8A8B4DD2CC8F2D73@AthlonXP>
Message-ID: <D4BF4A5CDD1A4FC998CDA9D5D8374488@zen>

 
> Any suggestions on what I may be able to do to restore these 
> pots?  I've never heard of the product he used, but it 
> obviously destroyed the internal lubrication.

Best suggestion is to have your friend learn from his mistake, I'm afraid...
Pots have lubricant in their shafts, and any kind of solvent cleaner will
wash it out and make the pot feel bad, even if you do get the crap out of
the wiper and track and stop it crackling.
You can usually disassemble and re-lubricate sliders, but in my experience,
once a pot feels rough you pretty much have to live with it.

A couple of months back, I picked up an old mixer which, as expected, had a
lot of crackly pots.
My solution was to remove and replace *every single one* with a new pot.
The result is a mixer with absolutely no crackles, and a lovely feel on
every pot.
A lot of effort (~300 pots, over a few nights), but to me it was worth it to
have a mixer that should last years before it needs pot maintenance.

Cheers,
Colin f




From aurastar at cox.net  Wed May 16 01:53:39 2012
From: aurastar at cox.net (DTK)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:53:39 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Restoring "feel" on pots?
References: <FB7F513E636C411E8A8B4DD2CC8F2D73@AthlonXP>
	<D4BF4A5CDD1A4FC998CDA9D5D8374488@zen>
Message-ID: <28F8314BA28D44F1BEABFCAC96349E71@AthlonXP>

Thanks for the info.  I had a feeling it would come down to that, but I felt 
like I should ask around anyway.

Any suggested lubricants for the sliders?  Maybe I can at least get those 
back in order.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Colin f" <colin at colinfraser.com>

> Best suggestion is to have your friend learn from his mistake, I'm 
> afraid...
> Pots have lubricant in their shafts, and any kind of solvent cleaner will
> wash it out and make the pot feel bad, even if you do get the crap out of
> the wiper and track and stop it crackling.
> You can usually disassemble and re-lubricate sliders, but in my 
> experience,
> once a pot feels rough you pretty much have to live with it.



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Wed May 16 02:06:27 2012
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (aankrom)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 20:06:27 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] =?utf-8?q?Restoring_=22feel=22_on_pots=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <D4BF4A5CDD1A4FC998CDA9D5D8374488@zen>
References: <FB7F513E636C411E8A8B4DD2CC8F2D73@AthlonXP>
	<D4BF4A5CDD1A4FC998CDA9D5D8374488@zen>
Message-ID: <98de3a8ac3285f7c25c14bbc54d99066@bluemarble.net>

There's a silicone grease that's used on auto brakes. You can find it 
in auto parts stores. I've used Vaseline to restore the 'feel' of pots 
too. You have to carefully disassemble, lubricate, then reassemble, but 
it's really not so difficult. I use Deoxid to clean pots and switches. 
If used sparingly, you can preserve the lubrication in the pots. It's 
pricey, but it works way better than WD40. Of course it won't restore 
the lubrication if you've used something else, but it's something to 
consider for future cleaning.

AA

On Wed, 16 May 2012 00:20:32 +0100, Colin f wrote:
>> Any suggestions on what I may be able to do to restore these
>> pots?  I've never heard of the product he used, but it
>> obviously destroyed the internal lubrication.
>
> Best suggestion is to have your friend learn from his mistake, I'm 
> afraid...
> Pots have lubricant in their shafts, and any kind of solvent cleaner 
> will
> wash it out and make the pot feel bad, even if you do get the crap 
> out of
> the wiper and track and stop it crackling.
> You can usually disassemble and re-lubricate sliders, but in my 
> experience,
> once a pot feels rough you pretty much have to live with it.
>
> A couple of months back, I picked up an old mixer which, as expected, 
> had a
> lot of crackly pots.
> My solution was to remove and replace *every single one* with a new 
> pot.
> The result is a mixer with absolutely no crackles, and a lovely feel 
> on
> every pot.
> A lot of effort (~300 pots, over a few nights), but to me it was 
> worth it to
> have a mixer that should last years before it needs pot maintenance.
>
> Cheers,
> Colin f
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Wed May 16 03:33:15 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 21:33:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <1A93EA0F-BFFB-4D46-91C3-72A8825F3E23@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <308659655.1190862.1337131995921.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

trimming the input resistor will work, but only for that input. If you have only one precision CV source, its a viable approach. Otherwise making all the summing resistors match (maybe 0.1%) is the usual way...

H^) harry


----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
To: Neil Johnson <neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com>
Cc: synthdiy diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tue, 15 May 2012 18:02:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble

Thanks everyone. Lots of good ideas and many different approaches.

I was able to get it working as Neil suggested below, by making the input resistor the variable part rather than the feedback resistor. I swapped R6 for PR2+R22 and bingo! The interaction disappears and the whole thing suddenly becomes *a lot* easier to tune.

Tom


On 15 May 2012, at 21:53, Neil Johnson wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
>> I'm having  spot of bother with an oscillator's CV mixer. The circuit
>> is:
>> 
>> http://www.electricdruid.net/images/CVMixer.png
>> 
>> I've got a Note CV coming in to one end of R6, 0-5V, and I'm
>> expecting to get 5V-0V out of the other end. The Offset trimmer
>> adjusts the -5V offset that gets fed to the mixer. Seems simple
>> enough on paper.
> 
> As Veronica says, your "1v/oct" trimmer adjusts the gain of your summer, which will affect *both* inputs (CV and offset).
> 
> If you just want to adjust the CV gain then I suggest getting rid of PR2 and making R6 your adjustable "1v/oct" trimmer.  You might want to fiddle with some of the values, and DO NOT use the supply rails directly for references - heck, even a zener would be better than all the crap coming in from the supply rails.
> 
> Neil
> -- 
> Modules and more :: www.cesyg.com
> Homepage :: www.njohnson.co.uk ::

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Wed May 16 09:24:21 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 08:24:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <C7D3FC081F7E4DB39D0459825E1DAB0A@galvanox01>
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
	<C7D3FC081F7E4DB39D0459825E1DAB0A@galvanox01>
Message-ID: <CAEaByMS5YOQwO1rWa33S967=8VJgw6CmOcOYFzjBd9jaPZkTWg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

> So, now, the question is, how do you get a 5V reference from the -15V rail?

Well, if you're going to use the -15V rail as a reference (dumb idea
but lets follow it) then you just need a single resistor.

Neil
-- 
Modules and more: http://www.cesyg.com
Homepage: http://www.njohnson.co.uk


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Wed May 16 11:42:53 2012
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 03:42:53 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] testing SAJ110 dividers..something I'm missing?
Message-ID: <4FB3769D.9080706@imt.net>

Seems I've been here before.  I get signal out only if the supply is 
right at 5V +- .04V or something.  They normally operate at 8V?  I got a 
new batch in and was trying to test them.  Do I need something besides 
signal in and voltage  on these to test them?

-- 
Check out sounddoctorin.com for songs, a studio tour, help
repairing old synthesizers and parts or thought provoking
articles that could help make your eternity!



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Wed May 16 11:43:25 2012
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 10:43:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Sheet metal recommendations?
Message-ID: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>

Just a query for recommendations.

I currently use a place in southern England for sheet metal fabrications 
(laser-cutting of alu sheet, then forming etc. - for frames, end-cheeks 
etc), but would love to hear if anyone has recommendations of places 
which are:
- well priced, efficient, good to deal with, reliable, etc.etc.
UK perhaps - or maybe EU - or even Far East.
I've been using Solidworks for design if that is of relevance.

Places like PCBcart have really revolutionised how easy it is to 
purchase PCBs - wondering whether such exists for metal workings.

Thanks for any tips!
Tom

-- 
BugBrand LTD
UK company No. 07199808
VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
BRISTOL BS1 3SB
United Kingdom
www.bugbrand.co.uk



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 16 12:02:12 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 11:02:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEaByMS5YOQwO1rWa33S967=8VJgw6CmOcOYFzjBd9jaPZkTWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net>
	<C7D3FC081F7E4DB39D0459825E1DAB0A@galvanox01>
	<CAEaByMS5YOQwO1rWa33S967=8VJgw6CmOcOYFzjBd9jaPZkTWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E2BC5E61-A3F1-4EFD-BEFF-839A5E084A87@electricdruid.net>


On 16 May 2012, at 08:24, Neil Johnson wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>> So, now, the question is, how do you get a 5V reference from the -15V rail?
> 
> Well, if you're going to use the -15V rail as a reference (dumb idea
> but lets follow it) then you just need a single resistor.


You're suggesting using a input resistor that is three times as big to mix -15V into the mixer, thereby giving -5V at the mixer, and +5V at the output?

I take your point about using the rails for reference voltages. There are several reasons why it isn't so stupid as it might seem in this particular situation:

1) It's a PIC circuit and the analog power rails are actually the 'clean' power, whereas using the digital 'dirty' +5V rail would be a very different business.
2) The control voltage that this CV mixer produces is quantized to MIDI note values 0-60. So I have a good degree of noise immunity. If I'm in the middle of the 83mV per semitone of a typical 1V/Oct CV, I could probably go 30 or 35mV up or down before I get dangerously close to a semitone step.
3) It's a prototype, so it's a proof of concept at this stage, not a carefully-perfected final design. I can easily put a proper reference on the final one. I probably would have done already, but I don't have one in my parts bin.

Thanks,
Tom



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Wed May 16 13:16:12 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 07:16:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <E2BC5E61-A3F1-4EFD-BEFF-839A5E084A87@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <1154755497.1195418.1337166972848.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

I'd say using the power supply rails might be OK if you ~own~ the rails (like you say you do, Tom...)
Then you always know what is connected and how stable and clean they are.

The MOOG ROGUE uses its +/- 12V for VCO references...

Other than that, its a really bad idea. I don't ever use the rails of my own system, even to drive
the pots on the front panel :^)   Precision references are not very expensive these days.


----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
To: Neil Johnson <neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com>
Cc: synthdiy diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Wed, 16 May 2012 06:02:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble


On 16 May 2012, at 08:24, Neil Johnson wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>> So, now, the question is, how do you get a 5V reference from the -15V rail?
> 
> Well, if you're going to use the -15V rail as a reference (dumb idea
> but lets follow it) then you just need a single resistor.


You're suggesting using a input resistor that is three times as big to mix -15V into the mixer, thereby giving -5V at the mixer, and +5V at the output?

I take your point about using the rails for reference voltages. There are several reasons why it isn't so stupid as it might seem in this particular situation:

1) It's a PIC circuit and the analog power rails are actually the 'clean' power, whereas using the digital 'dirty' +5V rail would be a very different business.
2) The control voltage that this CV mixer produces is quantized to MIDI note values 0-60. So I have a good degree of noise immunity. If I'm in the middle of the 83mV per semitone of a typical 1V/Oct CV, I could probably go 30 or 35mV up or down before I get dangerously close to a semitone step.
3) It's a prototype, so it's a proof of concept at this stage, not a carefully-perfected final design. I can easily put a proper reference on the final one. I probably would have done already, but I don't have one in my parts bin.

Thanks,
Tom

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From mars at pingdynasty.com  Wed May 16 16:36:03 2012
From: mars at pingdynasty.com (Martin Klang)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 15:36:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Sheet metal recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <05EE6A88-9FF5-4449-BBBE-635E1184170C@pingdynasty.com>


I just received some panels today from Screencraft [1].
Well priced, good finish, friendly. Based in Wimbledon.

The did mine with aluprint, which means the ink is sealed in during the anodising process. Or something to that effect. Looks great, and can't be scratched off.

/m

[1] http://www.screencraft.co.uk/

On 16 May 2012, at 10:43, Tom Bugs wrote:

> Just a query for recommendations.
> 
> I currently use a place in southern England for sheet metal fabrications (laser-cutting of alu sheet, then forming etc. - for frames, end-cheeks etc), but would love to hear if anyone has recommendations of places which are:
> - well priced, efficient, good to deal with, reliable, etc.etc.
> UK perhaps - or maybe EU - or even Far East.
> I've been using Solidworks for design if that is of relevance.
> 
> Places like PCBcart have really revolutionised how easy it is to purchase PCBs - wondering whether such exists for metal workings.
> 
> Thanks for any tips!
> Tom
> 
> -- 
> BugBrand LTD
> UK company No. 07199808
> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
> 1 Ninetree Hill
> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
> United Kingdom
> www.bugbrand.co.uk
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Wed May 16 18:02:24 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 09:02:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <CAEaByMS5YOQwO1rWa33S967=8VJgw6CmOcOYFzjBd9jaPZkTWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B37C20D0-420E-48C1-B6E6-DBAE178FFC56@electricdruid.net><C7D3FC081F7E4DB39D0459825E1DAB0A@galvanox01>
	<CAEaByMS5YOQwO1rWa33S967=8VJgw6CmOcOYFzjBd9jaPZkTWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B85A269240441239D903BCF25F8F7E3@galvanox01>

> > So, now, the question is, how do you get a 5V reference 
> from the -15V rail?
> 
> Well, if you're going to use the -15V rail as a reference 
> (dumb idea but lets follow it) then you just need a single resistor.

Yes, of course.  Duh!  A resistor 3 times larger than the CV input resistor.
What WAS I thinking?

Of course, if one has a pile of equal-sized precision resistors in one
value, then using three is a good option.

In my own builds, I take CV references from the rail in non-critical
applications such as VCFs, and take them from temperature-stable voltage
references (such as REF02) in critical applications such as VCOs.  In those
cases, I buffer the reference output to alleviate the current restriction,
and then send this buffered output all over the board.



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Wed May 16 18:11:01 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 09:11:01 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <1154755497.1195418.1337166972848.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
References: <E2BC5E61-A3F1-4EFD-BEFF-839A5E084A87@electricdruid.net>
	<1154755497.1195418.1337166972848.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <0B7CB15CFE44405D96EA82C4CC92B1F1@galvanox01>

> I'd say using the power supply rails might be OK if you ~own~ 
> the rails (like you say you do, Tom...) Then you always know 
> what is connected and how stable and clean they are.
> 
> The MOOG ROGUE uses its +/- 12V for VCO references...
> 
> Other than that, its a really bad idea. I don't ever use the 
> rails of my own system, even to drive
> the pots on the front panel :^)   Precision references are 
> not very expensive these days.

I recently changed my thinking on this issue, opting for proper references,
on VCOs at least.  I find it interesting that Paul Schreiber uses the rails
as references in his MOTM VCOs (or, at least, he did), and he prides himself
on his careful and accurate designs.  Of course, this is predicated on
having a decent power supply, and not overtaxing it with too many modules.



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Wed May 16 18:22:20 2012
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (aankrom)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 12:22:20 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DG201 vs LF13331
Message-ID: <8dd1a1f6ac5b9bae3c48319ccabc84f8@bluemarble.net>

I was wondering, since I have a lot of DG201's, if they would 
substitute well in a circuit that called for LF13331's, such as the 
Buchla 292C Lowpass Gate. I could look at datasheets I suppose but I 
don't think I have one for the LF13331.


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Wed May 16 18:51:05 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 12:51:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] DG201 vs LF13331
In-Reply-To: <8dd1a1f6ac5b9bae3c48319ccabc84f8@bluemarble.net>
Message-ID: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

If they are being used as analog switches I'd suspect they might work fine, but the LF part number
seems like a National Semiconductor part, and there were some where the 'control' signal was tied directly
to the gate of an internal FET and they could be used as voltage controlled resistors. I don't put it past
Don Buchla to have used a part like that... 

Is there a link to the schematic you're talking about ?

H^) harry

----- Original Message -----
From: aankrom <aankrom at bluemarble.net>
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Sent: Wed, 16 May 2012 12:22:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] DG201 vs LF13331

I was wondering, since I have a lot of DG201's, if they would 
substitute well in a circuit that called for LF13331's, such as the 
Buchla 292C Lowpass Gate. I could look at datasheets I suppose but I 
don't think I have one for the LF13331.
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From daugard at cox.net  Wed May 16 19:59:05 2012
From: daugard at cox.net (Tim Daugard)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 12:59:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>

Partially off synth topic - but does anyone have a schematic an/or manual 
for a Heathkit (Bell & Howell) IOD-4540 Oscilloscope? Mine died yesterday, 
and I hate playing with high voltage circuits without having any knowledge 
of what the voltages are and where.

And for those of you still with me, anyone have a favorite model for a NEW 
oscilloscope costing less than $500 (approximately an extra $30-40 won't 
kill me.) (for my Euro friends that would be a 400 euro or less scope.)

And as long as I'm being obnoxious anybody got a favorite place to put web 
pages? Cox deleted all customer web pages (copyright worries I guess) so my 
synth book is no longer on line. I've thought about setting up a server 
here, but that involves upgrading an old computer to link to my LAN and 
letting everyone access if with an IP address instead of www. That would be 
a trip back to the FTP days of the '90s.

Thanks for the time y'all,

Tim (the other Tim) Daugard

Who hasn't updated his signature page since my computer crashed and cox 
eliminated my web pages. However I've finally managed to get back in my lab 
now that my mother died about 9 months ago.


 




From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Wed May 16 20:56:31 2012
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (KA4HJH)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 14:56:31 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
In-Reply-To: <418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
	<418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
Message-ID: <p06240800cbd9a84fa6bc@[192.168.1.70]>

> I've thought about setting up a server
>here, but that involves upgrading an old computer to link to my LAN and
>letting everyone access if with an IP address instead of www. That would be
>a trip back to the FTP days of the '90s.

Running a server is probably against Cox's Ts&Cs, anyway. Most ISPs will
scream at you if you have port 80 open on a residential account.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 16 21:18:03 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 20:18:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
In-Reply-To: <418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
	<418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
Message-ID: <B4BEBD8F-A65A-4538-9A6B-59E4B4BEB0EC@electricdruid.net>


On 16 May 2012, at 18:59, Tim Daugard wrote:

> And for those of you still with me, anyone have a favorite model for a NEW oscilloscope costing less than $500 (approximately an extra $30-40 won't kill me.) (for my Euro friends that would be a 400 euro or less scope.)

You don't say whether you're thinking of a digital or an analog scope. You'd just be touching the bottom-end digital scopes at that price. Rigol or Owon scopes are probably where you're at if you want any digital features. For analog scopes, you have more choice but you won't get the bandwidth or the storage options, though obviously you gain on resolution.
It's come up on here before, so I won't labour the point, but I use a digital Owon scope and have been very pleased with it. Does what I want, and does a lot more useful stuff that my previous ?150 analog scope didn't do (frequency readings, voltage measurements, cursors, FFT, etcetc).
Though knowing that a reading is accurate to 0.01% might be nice, mostly a decent 'within a little bit' 8-bit digital result is plenty good enough, and the other benefits (for me) outweigh the limitations.

HTH,
Tom





From mr at analogue.org  Wed May 16 22:04:43 2012
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 22:04:43 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Sheet metal recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <05EE6A88-9FF5-4449-BBBE-635E1184170C@pingdynasty.com>
References: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<05EE6A88-9FF5-4449-BBBE-635E1184170C@pingdynasty.com>
Message-ID: <CAP92RBW5RoZu=WLj9d-i25A3jT7sc=ipdJyuUySWEUAeZtRs=g@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 May 2012 16:36, Martin Klang <mars at pingdynasty.com> wrote:
>
> [1] http://www.screencraft.co.uk/

Wow, that factory photo has by far the heaviest aliasing I've seen for
months. 8-S
Let's hope that's not a feature on their panel work as well!

/mr


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Wed May 16 23:59:30 2012
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 23:59:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] CV mixer trouble
In-Reply-To: <0B7CB15CFE44405D96EA82C4CC92B1F1@galvanox01>
References: <E2BC5E61-A3F1-4EFD-BEFF-839A5E084A87@electricdruid.net>
	<1154755497.1195418.1337166972848.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
	<0B7CB15CFE44405D96EA82C4CC92B1F1@galvanox01>
Message-ID: <4FB42342.7080003@rubidium.dyndns.org>

On 05/16/2012 06:11 PM, David G Dixon wrote:
>> I'd say using the power supply rails might be OK if you ~own~
>> the rails (like you say you do, Tom...) Then you always know
>> what is connected and how stable and clean they are.
>>
>> The MOOG ROGUE uses its +/- 12V for VCO references...
>>
>> Other than that, its a really bad idea. I don't ever use the
>> rails of my own system, even to drive
>> the pots on the front panel :^)   Precision references are
>> not very expensive these days.
>
> I recently changed my thinking on this issue, opting for proper references,
> on VCOs at least.  I find it interesting that Paul Schreiber uses the rails
> as references in his MOTM VCOs (or, at least, he did), and he prides himself
> on his careful and accurate designs.  Of course, this is predicated on
> having a decent power supply, and not overtaxing it with too many modules.

You have to be careful since not only your CV source needs to be derived 
from it, but also your expo-converter and reset-comparator limit. As 
long as they scale from the same reference, all is fine, but if you let 
say only the expo sits of a reference level, but not your CV pot, then 
you are in trouble as they relative variations between them will become 
apparent. If they where from the same source, then it would first degree 
cancel, and only variations on that voltage would cause issues as the 
variation isn't completely cancelled as the integrator action 
phase-shifts the variations.

VCOs is a bit tricky in that sense. :)

Cheers,
Magnus


From lists at meccanion.com  Thu May 17 02:39:08 2012
From: lists at meccanion.com (Colin Hinz)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 20:39:08 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
In-Reply-To: <418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
	<418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.1205162033120.2288@p4-1>

On Wed, 16 May 2012, Tim Daugard wrote:

> Partially off synth topic - but does anyone have a schematic an/or manual for 
> a Heathkit (Bell & Howell) IOD-4540 Oscilloscope? Mine died yesterday, and I 
> hate playing with high voltage circuits without having any knowledge of what 
> the voltages are and where.
>
> And for those of you still with me, anyone have a favorite model for a NEW 
> oscilloscope costing less than $500 (approximately an extra $30-40 won't kill 
> me.) (for my Euro friends that would be a 400 euro or less scope.)

One of the local hackerspaces has one of these:

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10806

It seems like a useful unit though I haven't personally used it.

- Colin



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu May 17 10:00:43 2012
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 02:00:43 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
In-Reply-To: <418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
	<418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
Message-ID: <4FB4B02B.9010007@imt.net>

On 5/16/2012 11:59 AM, Tim Daugard wrote:
> Partially off synth topic - but does anyone have a schematic an/or 
> manual for a Heathkit (Bell & Howell) IOD-4540 Oscilloscope? Mine died 
> yesterday, and I hate playing with high voltage circuits without 
> having any knowledge of what the voltages are and where.
>
> And for those of you still with me, anyone have a favorite model for a 
> NEW oscilloscope costing less than $500 (approximately an extra $30-40 
> won't kill me.) (for my Euro friends that would be a 400 euro or less 
> scope.)
>
> And as long as I'm being obnoxious anybody got a favorite place to put 
> web pages? Cox deleted all customer web pages (copyright worries I 
> guess) so my synth book is no longer on line. I've thought about 
> setting up a server here, but that involves upgrading an old computer 
> to link to my LAN and letting everyone access if with an IP address 
> instead of www. That would be a trip back to the FTP days of the '90s.
>
> Thanks for the time y'all,
>
> Tim (the other Tim) Daugard
>
> Who hasn't updated his signature page since my computer crashed and 
> cox eliminated my web pages. However I've finally managed to get back 
> in my lab now that my mother died about 9 months ago.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
Good chance a high voltage cap went leaky as I recall.  I think I have 
the same scope maybe I used to use here.

-- 
Check out sounddoctorin.com for songs, a studio tour, help
repairing old synthesizers and parts or thought provoking
articles that could help make your eternity!



From mars at pingdynasty.com  Thu May 17 14:34:56 2012
From: mars at pingdynasty.com (Martin Klang)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:34:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Sheet metal recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <CAP92RBW5RoZu=WLj9d-i25A3jT7sc=ipdJyuUySWEUAeZtRs=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<05EE6A88-9FF5-4449-BBBE-635E1184170C@pingdynasty.com>
	<CAP92RBW5RoZu=WLj9d-i25A3jT7sc=ipdJyuUySWEUAeZtRs=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7699D55F-CF74-40A5-B238-BB60F0A312BE@pingdynasty.com>


amazing what it does to the brickwork - if you zoom in it looks like it was made in Minecraft!

/m

On 16 May 2012, at 21:04, Mattias Rickardsson wrote:

> On 16 May 2012 16:36, Martin Klang <mars at pingdynasty.com> wrote:
>> 
>> [1] http://www.screencraft.co.uk/
> 
> Wow, that factory photo has by far the heaviest aliasing I've seen for
> months. 8-S
> Let's hope that's not a feature on their panel work as well!
> 
> /mr



From andy at cytomic.com  Thu May 17 16:44:02 2012
From: andy at cytomic.com (Andrew Simper)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 22:44:02 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
Message-ID: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>

I want to buy an MS-20 rev2, but the only ones I can find all have
Japanese 100V power supplies. I have a friends 240V MS20 rev2 here and
there is a transformer and fuse mounted on the chassie and then a
tripple core wire from the transformer that is soldered directly onto
the main PCB. Does anyone know if it is simply a matter of changing
that transformer?

I'm assuming that the rev2 has the same power supply as the rev1:
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/images/service/ms20/circ1.gif

Cheers,

Andy
--
cytomic - sound music software


From daugard at cox.net  Thu May 17 21:04:59 2012
From: daugard at cox.net (Tim Daugard)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:04:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com><418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.1205162033120.2288@p4-1>
Message-ID: <C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>

From: "Colin Hinz" <lists at meccanion.com>

> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10806
>
> It seems like a useful unit though I haven't personally used it.

That one appears to be identical to:

>Saelig has a great deal on Rigol scopes. $399

. . . and Saelig is throwing in a storage bag and free shipping.

Anyone have Rigol, Owon or the Aten other than the one person I'v already 
talked to? Or a different source for Rigol other than Saelig and Amazon?

Tim Daugard 




From daugard at cox.net  Thu May 17 21:13:10 2012
From: daugard at cox.net (Tim Daugard)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:13:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] New oscilloscopes
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com><418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO><Pine.WNT.4.64.1205162033120.2288@p4-1>
	<C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
Message-ID: <A5026112990A4509B67D0F12D82C83C5@FREDTWO>

Oh, yeah. And does any one know of a NEW analog scope cheaper than the $400 
needed for the Rigol.

Tim Daugard




From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu May 17 21:20:57 2012
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 21:20:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
In-Reply-To: <C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com><418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.1205162033120.2288@p4-1>,
	<C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
Message-ID: <B156A86831A33949A0977840648802477541559CFA@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

Reichelt in Germany also has some Digital scopes at http://www.reichelt.de

http://www.reichelt.de/Oszilloskope-Spektrumanalyser/2/index.html?;ACTION=2;LA=3;GROUP=D161;GROUPID=4044;START=0;OFFSET=16;SHOW=1;SID=10T7VPt38AAAIAAGZr7Sk1859fc7bb236abc2e81af68002c116e3

Ciao
Peter

http://www.ullrich.at.tt
________________________________________
Von: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] im Auftrag von Tim Daugard [daugard at cox.net]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. Mai 2012 21:04
An: Colin Hinz; synth diy
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information

From: "Colin Hinz" <lists at meccanion.com>

> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10806
>
> It seems like a useful unit though I haven't personally used it.

That one appears to be identical to:

>Saelig has a great deal on Rigol scopes. $399

. . . and Saelig is throwing in a storage bag and free shipping.

Anyone have Rigol, Owon or the Aten other than the one person I'v already
talked to? Or a different source for Rigol other than Saelig and Amazon?

Tim Daugard


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and
confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person
who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his
employees or an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is
informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents
thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail
immediately.




From cbm at well.com  Thu May 17 21:46:34 2012
From: cbm at well.com (Chris Muir)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:46:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
In-Reply-To: <C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com><418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.1205162033120.2288@p4-1>
	<C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
Message-ID: <CCAA4781-FECE-4A61-B1D0-29CF418F2996@well.com>


On May 17, 2012, at 12:04 PM, Tim Daugard wrote:

> Anyone have Rigol, Owon or the Aten other than the one person I'v already talked to? Or a different source for Rigol other than Saelig and Amazon?

I have a Rigol DS1052e, the 50 MHz version of the DS1102e. For the money it's hard to beat, with one sort of major annoyance: it has a cooling fan. Not a big deal for a lot of things, but for audio work it can be problematic.

It's worth noting that the DS1052e and the DS1102e are the same hardware. There are hacks to convert the DS1052e to 100 MHz.

? C

					| In theory, there is no difference between
http://www.xfade.com		| theory and practice. In practice, there is.
   cbm at well.com		|               - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut



From ol.gillet at gmail.com  Thu May 17 22:09:23 2012
From: ol.gillet at gmail.com (Olivier Gillet)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 22:09:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] New oscilloscopes
In-Reply-To: <A5026112990A4509B67D0F12D82C83C5@FREDTWO>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
	<418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.1205162033120.2288@p4-1>
	<C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
	<A5026112990A4509B67D0F12D82C83C5@FREDTWO>
Message-ID: <CAJoLJ5WK0ktjBaO6uitfTgw3WA5XF=2YVm2c-CXDX-h-NerAHg@mail.gmail.com>

http://uk.farnell.com/multimetrix/x4010/oscilloscope-analogue/dp/4904000
http://uk.farnell.com/digimess/huc70-01-mo10-german-version/oscilloscope-digimess-10mhz-german/dp/4435059?Ntt=4435059
http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-6802/oscilloscope-30mhz-fq-count/dp/1563801?Ntt=1563801

None of them look like particularly good deals...

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Tim Daugard <daugard at cox.net> wrote:
> Oh, yeah. And does any one know of a NEW analog scope cheaper than the $400
> needed for the Rigol.
>
> Tim Daugard
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Thu May 17 22:10:47 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:10:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] DG201 vs LF13331
In-Reply-To: <DDA21636-9DD8-4D13-BA60-28D678E4FE35@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <654131963.1230837.1337285447072.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

Thanks Mark. That's kind of what I remembered (without the data books here...)

H^) harry


----- Original Message -----
From: mark verbos <markverbos at gmail.com>
To: Harry Bissell <harrybissell at wowway.com>
Cc: aankrom <aankrom at bluemarble.net>, synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Sent: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:53:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DG201 vs LF13331

In places where Buchla used the LF13331 it works fine to substitute a DG201, with the exception that the power pins are different. 

The FET switch chips that can be used as voltage controlled resistors are the AM97C11 (same as AH5011), which Buchla used as a voltage controlled resistor in the 296. 

Mark




On May 16, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Harry Bissell wrote:

> If they are being used as analog switches I'd suspect they might work fine, but the LF part number
> seems like a National Semiconductor part, and there were some where the 'control' signal was tied directly
> to the gate of an internal FET and they could be used as voltage controlled resistors. I don't put it past
> Don Buchla to have used a part like that... 
> 
> Is there a link to the schematic you're talking about ?
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: aankrom <aankrom at bluemarble.net>
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Sent: Wed, 16 May 2012 12:22:20 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: [sdiy] DG201 vs LF13331
> 
> I was wondering, since I have a lot of DG201's, if they would 
> substitute well in a circuit that called for LF13331's, such as the 
> Buchla 292C Lowpass Gate. I could look at datasheets I suppose but I 
> don't think I have one for the LF13331.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> -- 
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From osalas at electronic-sea.net  Thu May 17 22:45:11 2012
From: osalas at electronic-sea.net (Oscar Salas)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 23:45:11 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20fecda938940d5fe5515cb4b3c7df45.squirrel@webmail.electronic-sea.net>

Yes , a 36VCT transformer should do the work.I would replace the
capacitors for other ones with at least voltage rating 35V.


> I want to buy an MS-20 rev2, but the only ones I can find all have
> Japanese 100V power supplies. I have a friends 240V MS20 rev2 here and
> there is a transformer and fuse mounted on the chassie and then a
> tripple core wire from the transformer that is soldered directly onto
> the main PCB. Does anyone know if it is simply a matter of changing
> that transformer?
>
> I'm assuming that the rev2 has the same power supply as the rev1:
> http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/images/service/ms20/circ1.gif
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
> --
> cytomic - sound music software
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


electronic-sea.net



From stewpye at optusnet.com.au  Thu May 17 22:48:54 2012
From: stewpye at optusnet.com.au (Stewart Pye)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 06:48:54 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>

Hi Andy,

I've converted a few 110V synths for 240V but I can't remember if the 
MS20 was one of them.

 From the circuit it looks like you could just replace the transformer 
if you can find a suitable one, and fit it in there. If your closest 
choice is 18V or 15V secondaries I'd go with the 15V one, as the 
unregulated DC is marked as 18V on the schematic. The power dissipation 
across the regulator may be too high if you use 18V secondaries.

Something like this would be suitable:
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=M5015


If dropout voltage is a problem you could then replace the regulators 
with low dropout types such as the LM2940-15.

Regards,
Stewart.





On 5/18/2012 12:44 AM, Andrew Simper wrote:
> I want to buy an MS-20 rev2, but the only ones I can find all have
> Japanese 100V power supplies. I have a friends 240V MS20 rev2 here and
> there is a transformer and fuse mounted on the chassie and then a
> tripple core wire from the transformer that is soldered directly onto
> the main PCB. Does anyone know if it is simply a matter of changing
> that transformer?
>
> I'm assuming that the rev2 has the same power supply as the rev1:
> http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/images/service/ms20/circ1.gif
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
> --
> cytomic - sound music software
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From osalas at electronic-sea.net  Thu May 17 22:58:43 2012
From: osalas at electronic-sea.net (Oscar Salas)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 23:58:43 +0300
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <cfb12fe05f7aeffcdf7a6576879d0f70.squirrel@webmail.electronic-sea.net>


> Hi Andy,
>
> I've converted a few 110V synths for 240V but I can't remember if the
> MS20 was one of them.
>
>  From the circuit it looks like you could just replace the transformer
> if you can find a suitable one, and fit it in there. If your closest
> choice is 18V or 15V secondaries I'd go with the 15V one, as the
> unregulated DC is marked as 18V on the schematic. The power dissipation
> across the regulator may be too high if you use 18V secondaries.
>
> Something like this would be suitable:
> http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=M5015
>
>
> If dropout voltage is a problem you could then replace the regulators
> with low dropout types such as the LM2940-15.
>
> Regards,
> Stewart.


Yes you are right, power dissipation must be considered.



> On 5/18/2012 12:44 AM, Andrew Simper wrote:
>> I want to buy an MS-20 rev2, but the only ones I can find all have
>> Japanese 100V power supplies. I have a friends 240V MS20 rev2 here and
>> there is a transformer and fuse mounted on the chassie and then a
>> tripple core wire from the transformer that is soldered directly onto
>> the main PCB. Does anyone know if it is simply a matter of changing
>> that transformer?
>>
>> I'm assuming that the rev2 has the same power supply as the rev1:
>> http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/images/service/ms20/circ1.gif
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andy
>> --
>> cytomic - sound music software
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


electronic-sea.net



From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu May 17 23:19:09 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 22:19:09 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <cfb12fe05f7aeffcdf7a6576879d0f70.squirrel@webmail.electronic-sea.net>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
	<cfb12fe05f7aeffcdf7a6576879d0f70.squirrel@webmail.electronic-sea.net>
Message-ID: <08C5454F-B234-4521-AEC1-947FC90F6B37@electricdruid.net>

Just to say that you should definitely go for it. I converted a 120V Polysix to 240V without trouble. It's just a question of working out what the right transformer is and then fitting it. Be careful, but definitely go for it.

Tom


On 17 May 2012, at 21:58, Oscar Salas wrote:

> 
>> Hi Andy,
>> 
>> I've converted a few 110V synths for 240V but I can't remember if the
>> MS20 was one of them.
>> 
>> From the circuit it looks like you could just replace the transformer
>> if you can find a suitable one, and fit it in there. If your closest
>> choice is 18V or 15V secondaries I'd go with the 15V one, as the
>> unregulated DC is marked as 18V on the schematic. The power dissipation
>> across the regulator may be too high if you use 18V secondaries.
>> 
>> Something like this would be suitable:
>> http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=M5015
>> 
>> 
>> If dropout voltage is a problem you could then replace the regulators
>> with low dropout types such as the LM2940-15.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Stewart.
> 
> 
> Yes you are right, power dissipation must be considered.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 5/18/2012 12:44 AM, Andrew Simper wrote:
>>> I want to buy an MS-20 rev2, but the only ones I can find all have
>>> Japanese 100V power supplies. I have a friends 240V MS20 rev2 here and
>>> there is a transformer and fuse mounted on the chassie and then a
>>> tripple core wire from the transformer that is soldered directly onto
>>> the main PCB. Does anyone know if it is simply a matter of changing
>>> that transformer?
>>> 
>>> I'm assuming that the rev2 has the same power supply as the rev1:
>>> http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/images/service/ms20/circ1.gif
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Andy
>>> --
>>> cytomic - sound music software
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> electronic-sea.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From mars at pingdynasty.com  Fri May 18 00:47:21 2012
From: mars at pingdynasty.com (Martin Klang)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 23:47:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
In-Reply-To: <C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com><418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.1205162033120.2288@p4-1>
	<C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
Message-ID: <7739E703-EE50-4220-A830-2E8F33513D0A@pingdynasty.com>


I just got a Rigol DS1052E from Telonic in the UK - I think they're one of two or more suppliers, another one is mcs-testequipment.com
Promptly 'upgraded' it to 100MHz with no problems. Well impressed with it so far.

/m

On 17 May 2012, at 20:04, Tim Daugard wrote:

> From: "Colin Hinz" <lists at meccanion.com>
> 
>> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10806
>> 
>> It seems like a useful unit though I haven't personally used it.
> 
> That one appears to be identical to:
> 
>> Saelig has a great deal on Rigol scopes. $399
> 
> . . . and Saelig is throwing in a storage bag and free shipping.
> 
> Anyone have Rigol, Owon or the Aten other than the one person I'v already talked to? Or a different source for Rigol other than Saelig and Amazon?
> 
> Tim Daugard 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jays at aracnet.com  Fri May 18 04:26:13 2012
From: jays at aracnet.com (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:26:13 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
In-Reply-To: <7739E703-EE50-4220-A830-2E8F33513D0A@pingdynasty.com>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com><418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>	<Pine.WNT.4.64.1205162033120.2288@p4-1>	<C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
	<7739E703-EE50-4220-A830-2E8F33513D0A@pingdynasty.com>
Message-ID: <000e01cd349d$988a4240$c99ec6c0$@com>

Do you know if you can change it back?

Might be a good thing to think about if you have to have warranty work done
on it.

Jay S.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Martin Klang
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:47 PM
To: Tim Daugard
Cc: Colin Hinz; synth diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information


I just got a Rigol DS1052E from Telonic in the UK - I think they're one of
two or more suppliers, another one is mcs-testequipment.com
Promptly 'upgraded' it to 100MHz with no problems. Well impressed with it so
far.

/m

On 17 May 2012, at 20:04, Tim Daugard wrote:

> From: "Colin Hinz" <lists at meccanion.com>
> 
>> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10806
>> 
>> It seems like a useful unit though I haven't personally used it.
> 
> That one appears to be identical to:
> 
>> Saelig has a great deal on Rigol scopes. $399
> 
> . . . and Saelig is throwing in a storage bag and free shipping.
> 
> Anyone have Rigol, Owon or the Aten other than the one person I'v already
talked to? Or a different source for Rigol other than Saelig and Amazon?
> 
> Tim Daugard 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From mars at pingdynasty.com  Fri May 18 04:52:15 2012
From: mars at pingdynasty.com (Martin Klang)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 03:52:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Heathkit Oscilloscope Information
In-Reply-To: <000e01cd349d$988a4240$c99ec6c0$@com>
References: <655444497.1204478.1337187065247.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com><418F6ECF9ACE4927802294A35FFD861C@FREDTWO>	<Pine.WNT.4.64.1205162033120.2288@p4-1>	<C91E92D80C9541AB8420D3B517877A3E@FREDTWO>
	<7739E703-EE50-4220-A830-2E8F33513D0A@pingdynasty.com>
	<000e01cd349d$988a4240$c99ec6c0$@com>
Message-ID: <526C686E-8C38-4608-8FF2-5FA0DC402CE2@pingdynasty.com>

On 18 May 2012, at 03:26, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:

> Do you know if you can change it back?

the firmware can be downgraded and changes reverted -
on a working scope, that is.

If it breaks in any way (what to warrant invoking the warranty) then it's anyone's guess.

Not sure if the mod actually voids the warranty though, since it is done simply by sending commands over serial/USB.
Haven't looked into the small print.

/m

From gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri May 18 11:50:51 2012
From: gatkins at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Atkins)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 10:50:51 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <19AB0A69-42C6-4247-A7AB-C023B8217E78@blueyonder.co.uk>

Also don't forget to change the mains input fuse to a value appropriate to the 240V primary.

Graham

> Hi Andy,
> 
> I've converted a few 110V synths for 240V but I can't remember if the MS20 was one of them.
> 
> From the circuit it looks like you could just replace the transformer if you can find a suitable one, and fit it in there. If your closest choice is 18V or 15V secondaries I'd go with the 15V one, as the unregulated DC is marked as 18V on the schematic. The power dissipation across the regulator may be too high if you use 18V secondaries.
> 
> Something like this would be suitable:
> http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=M5015
> 
> 
> If dropout voltage is a problem you could then replace the regulators with low dropout types such as the LM2940-15.
> 
> Regards,
> Stewart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/18/2012 12:44 AM, Andrew Simper wrote:
>> I want to buy an MS-20 rev2, but the only ones I can find all have
>> Japanese 100V power supplies. I have a friends 240V MS20 rev2 here and
>> there is a transformer and fuse mounted on the chassie and then a
>> tripple core wire from the transformer that is soldered directly onto
>> the main PCB. Does anyone know if it is simply a matter of changing
>> that transformer?
>> 
>> I'm assuming that the rev2 has the same power supply as the rev1:
>> http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/images/service/ms20/circ1.gif
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Andy
>> --
>> cytomic - sound music software
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Fri May 18 13:58:05 2012
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 13:58:05 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <20120518115805.GB31642@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2012-05-18 06:48 +1000, Stewart Pye wrote:

> From the circuit it looks like you could just replace the
> transformer if you can find a suitable one, and fit it in there. If
> your closest choice is 18V or 15V secondaries I'd go with the 15V
> one, as the unregulated DC is marked as 18V on the schematic. The
> power dissipation across the regulator may be too high if you use
> 18V secondaries.

On mine, the secondaries measure at 19.2 V loaded and 20.5 V
unloaded. Actually 20.1 and 21.4 V but it's a 220 V model and
mains voltage in France is now 230 V.

An MS-20 can power a few external modules (mine does) and remain
cool so the transformer must be generously sized. I bet you
would see 18 volts at rated load.

-- 
Andr? Majorel http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From djthomaswhite at yahoo.com  Fri May 18 15:57:59 2012
From: djthomaswhite at yahoo.com (Thomas White)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 06:57:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Still FS: Spring Cleaning Sale
In-Reply-To: <8D75FD4E-1B91-4788-90E5-D95D21DE733D@yahoo.com>
References: <8D75FD4E-1B91-4788-90E5-D95D21DE733D@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <13CC906C-C24E-4239-BE94-7F279D30EBB8@yahoo.com>



> Rack Gear:
> 
> Electrix MoFX delay/flanger/distortion/tremelo - $110 
> 
> Behringer Virtualizer Rack FX $80
> 
> Digitech Studio Quad FX $200
> 
> FX Pedals: 
> 
> Electro Harmonix Freeze $90
> 
> Electro Harmonix Cathedral Reverb $170
> 
> Modular:
> 
> MOTM-420 - $240
> 
> Music From Outer Space State Variable Filter (FPE MOTM 5u) - $180
> 
> Oakley Multimix 3 input mixer - $150
> 
> JH Storm Tide Flanger PCB $50
> 
> Various:
> 
> Ibanez GIO (g10) black guitar $75
> 
> 
> Analog Bench Parts:
> 
> Box of Polysix Part (boards, knobs, switch tops) - $60
> 
> CEM3340 (2466C-01 8226 batch) $60
> CEM3328 $40
> CEM3310 $60
> CEM3389 $40
> 
> Moog Source OS (3.3 maybe? Have to check) ROM $25
> 
> MOTM 440 panel $20, light scratch repaired with enamel paint. Otherwise clean
> 
> 
> 
> Contact privately if interested. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Thomas White
> Natural Rhythm Music
> www.naturalrhythmmusic.com


From jim at antsclimbtree.com  Fri May 18 19:46:56 2012
From: jim at antsclimbtree.com (Jim Coursey)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 10:46:56 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Juno 106 repair question (beyond simply replacing
	80017a/5534a)
Message-ID: <EB84C8CF-D587-4935-AD3E-076D7B47D5CE@antsclimbtree.com>

Hi, I posted this on Muff's but have yet to get any advice.  

I'm trying to troubleshoot a pair of voices on my Juno 106 with no Pulse output. The saw on voices 1 and 2 work fine, the square just makes a click. Because the same issue appears on both, the VCFs/VCAs work fine on the voices, I take this to be a problem with the 5534a which produces both voices 1 and 2. (After all the outputs of 5534a pins 14 and 16 are the sums of PWM and saw, the latter of which comes through fine.) 

Both 80017a's had been replaced with clones and seem to work fine now. (I really bungled the replacement of one but think I repaired the traces etc sufficiently and again, it works fine.) I tried replacing the 5534a with a replacement from a reputable source (Synth Parts) but the result is the same. 

What next? I've attached the relevant portions of the schematic at Muff's (see link below). I can verify that pin 12 of all 5534a's (PWM CV) is getting signal. I see no specific PWM control (on/off etc) otherwise.    

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59686

-Jim

From jim at antsclimbtree.com  Fri May 18 20:51:27 2012
From: jim at antsclimbtree.com (Jim Coursey)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 11:51:27 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Juno 106 bonus questions
Message-ID: <8C28503F-210D-4180-882F-E751E2FB42C2@antsclimbtree.com>

Hi, so while I have your attention, a couple bonus / "mod" questions.  At a time when I thought I'd irreparably damaged my module board I started somewhat foolishly messing around with simple mods to the Juno and came up with some ideas that are pretty cool but want to know how bad they are (electronically).  (P.S.  I don't think I tried any of these prior to my previously mentioned PWM problem, so I don't think there's a relationship there.)

1) On the Jack Board, I find that by replacing R8 (2.2M) with a 2M pot, and maybe adding a 10k resistor in series, I get a chorus sound which goes from standard grade Juno 106 chorus on one end of the pot, to very lush and over-excited on the other end.  (Essentially this seems to increase both the depth and rate of the LFO that feeds the BBD chorus.)  As nice as the standard Juno chorus is, it's nice having even more range to choose from.

2) On the Bender Board, you can disconnect the wire from the wiper of the pitch bender, and instead wire the wiper to the switch on a switching jack, and use the jack for CV input, routing the CV jack's tip to R12.  When CV is plugged in, the Bender doesn't do anything but the Pitch and VCF sliders on the Bender Board conveniently become CV mod level settings.  Seeing as the Bender is a voltage divider mixing +/-15v from the rails, it doesn't seem like this one is very controversial.

3) Most dubious:  On the Panel Board, if you wire a CV input via 4.7k resistor and 100k pot to the 4052 end of any of R1-16 (4.7k), you can add CV to whichever slider you choose (say, LFO rate, or Sub Level, Resonance, etc). This is pretty simple to do, but I worry about doing any damage to the 4052s or subsequent chips.  And I suppose this is unideal as it's a passive averager not a summer, but I'm just thinking of easy little ways to interface my Juno to my modular gear.  So how reckless is this idea?  Should I buffer the CV input at least?  (Again I don't really want to change the existing slider circuitry, just add inputs)

Service manual with relevant schematics here:

http://www.hinzen.de/midi/juno-106/manual/juno-serv.pdf

-Jim

From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri May 18 21:43:50 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 20:43:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Juno 106 repair question (beyond simply replacing
	80017a/5534a)
In-Reply-To: <EB84C8CF-D587-4935-AD3E-076D7B47D5CE@antsclimbtree.com>
References: <EB84C8CF-D587-4935-AD3E-076D7B47D5CE@antsclimbtree.com>
Message-ID: <195DBF7A-2BBF-456C-B5B2-DC381B1BE048@electricdruid.net>

Hi Jim,

> I'm trying to troubleshoot a pair of voices on my Juno 106 with no Pulse output. The saw on voices 1 and 2 work fine, the square just makes a click. Because the same issue appears on both, the VCFs/VCAs work fine on the voices, I take this to be a problem with the 5534a which produces both voices 1 and 2. (After all the outputs of 5534a pins 14 and 16 are the sums of PWM and saw, the latter of which comes through fine.) 

Your logic so far seems flawless!

> Both 80017a's had been replaced with clones and seem to work fine now. (I really bungled the replacement of one but think I repaired the traces etc sufficiently and again, it works fine.) I tried replacing the 5534a with a replacement from a reputable source (Synth Parts) but the result is the same.

You mean you've tried swapping the 55134 with a clone and the problem remains? That makes it highly unlikely that the problem is in the 55134.

> What next? I've attached the relevant portions of the schematic at Muff's (see link below). I can verify that pin 12 of all 5534a's (PWM CV) is getting signal. I see no specific PWM control (on/off etc) otherwise.

No, you're right, the Juno 106 uses the PWM CV to switch the pulse wave off when required (after all, why use an extra wire for the job?).
If the PWM CV is between the valid values (6V to 0.6V) then there *ought* to be pulse wave coming out. If it's more negative than that, then it could be ok, but switched off. The Service Manual doesn't commit itself to *exactly* where the pulse switches off - just that it's at 95% at 0.6V and that it's off at -0.8V. Presumably somewhere between those extremes it goes first to 100% and then dies.

So I'd test those voltage again. If they're between those normal limits that the service manuals give, then  that would suggest the comparators on the 55134 are dead. If the problem remains with a new 55134 (which you say it does) then it would have to be the ramp that going into the comparator that's the problem. Although you say the ramp is ok, is it same level as the other voices? If it were quieter, the pulse wave would reduce to a brief pulse (a click) long before it were supposed to. You've been through some of this process already, but if you'll bear with me, I'm thinking aloud.

A possible cause of a reduced ramp wave would be a dead 4052 for that pair of voices. If it were providing much more resistance that it's supposed to, the voices would have a reduced ramp volume, which might give you the results you see. Some weirdness of the capacitors *might* just about cause similar symptoms, but it's pretty unlikely that they'd both go down in the same way at the same time.
It's also possible that the problem lies further back. If the 4052 is not receiving the sufficient voltage, the ramp would be low. That would suggest a dead op-amp or dead caps in the S&H that feeds that pair of voices. So test the DCO CVs that are feeding those voices. If they're low, the problem is not in the waveform generator chip.

I'd start with the DCO CVs and work forwards from there.

Good luck!

Tom






From jim at antsclimbtree.com  Fri May 18 22:19:44 2012
From: jim at antsclimbtree.com (Jim Coursey)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 13:19:44 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Juno 106 repair question (beyond simply replacing
	80017a/5534a)
In-Reply-To: <195DBF7A-2BBF-456C-B5B2-DC381B1BE048@electricdruid.net>
References: <EB84C8CF-D587-4935-AD3E-076D7B47D5CE@antsclimbtree.com>
	<195DBF7A-2BBF-456C-B5B2-DC381B1BE048@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <A3F2804A-4B28-4291-AD97-50A5BB5D477E@antsclimbtree.com>

On May 18, 2012, at 12:43 PM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:

Thanks Tom, 

This is a great bit of info to work from.

> You mean you've tried swapping the 55134 with a clone and the problem remains? That makes it highly unlikely that the problem is in the 55134.

The 55134 / MC5534 (whatever you wanna call) it is actually an original part -- NOS or salvaged, whatever Doug Terrabone sells.  But yes, I get the same result from my original IC as the replacement that I recently bought, and it seems unlikely to me that both failed in the same way (unless the comparator is a common weak point here).

> No, you're right, the Juno 106 uses the PWM CV to switch the pulse wave off when required (after all, why use an extra wire for the job?).
> If the PWM CV is between the valid values (6V to 0.6V) then there *ought* to be pulse wave coming out. If it's more negative than that, then it could be ok, but switched off. The Service Manual doesn't commit itself to *exactly* where the pulse switches off - just that it's at 95% at 0.6V and that it's off at -0.8V. Presumably somewhere between those extremes it goes first to 100% and then dies.
> 
> So I'd test those voltage again. If they're between those normal limits that the service manuals give, then  that would suggest the comparators on the 55134 are dead.

Recently I've only tested continuity here but given that all 3 55134 chips are given the same PWM CV and 4 voices work, it seems like the problem wouldn't be the PWM CV itself.

> A possible cause of a reduced ramp wave would be a dead 4052 for that pair of voices...

Ah, yeah, I somehow overlooked that chip entirely.  It would be easy enough to swap, I have a stack of them.  And if not that, there's the op-amps and caps you mentioned.

Cheers,
Jim

From tom at electricdruid.net  Sat May 19 16:37:10 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 15:37:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
Message-ID: <4415DFD1-DE05-4F25-A5EC-7746EC1B08F2@electricdruid.net>

Hi all,

What do people do for negative voltage references?

Farnell list 1351 voltage references on their website, and only one of them is negative (-10V).

Are we expected to use a positive one and stick it through an op-amp?

Or should I just use a 3-pin negative voltage regulator instead? It's not great, but it's cheap, and you can get negative ones easily enough. REF02's seem to cost ?3-?4 each, which I regard as a lot of money for the job. A separate regulator costs me ?0.30 or so.

All that talk about not using the rails for references must finally be getting through to me! But unless I can find one, I'm in danger of slipping back into my bad old ways.

Thanks,
Tom






From blacet at blacet.com  Sat May 19 17:00:11 2012
From: blacet at blacet.com (blacet at blacet.com)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 08:00:11 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <4415DFD1-DE05-4F25-A5EC-7746EC1B08F2@electricdruid.net>
References: <4415DFD1-DE05-4F25-A5EC-7746EC1B08F2@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <6b31ead85018f7fc15ac58d68e46e8bc.squirrel@webmail.blacet.com>

Yes, pos through an op amp; low offset maybe?

Lots of refs out there; look at the LM4040 series for example. Various
trimmed grades, one resistor, no cap.

> Hi all,
>
> What do people do for negative voltage references?
>
> Farnell list 1351 voltage references on their website, and only one of
> them is negative (-10V).
>
> Are we expected to use a positive one and stick it through an op-amp?
>
> Or should I just use a 3-pin negative voltage regulator instead? It's not
> great, but it's cheap, and you can get negative ones easily enough.
> REF02's seem to cost ?3-?4 each, which I regard as a lot of money for the
> job. A separate regulator costs me ?0.30 or so.
>
> All that talk about not using the rails for references must finally be
> getting through to me! But unless I can find one, I'm in danger of
> slipping back into my bad old ways.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>




From ol.gillet at gmail.com  Sat May 19 17:37:41 2012
From: ol.gillet at gmail.com (Olivier Gillet)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 17:37:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <6b31ead85018f7fc15ac58d68e46e8bc.squirrel@webmail.blacet.com>
References: <4415DFD1-DE05-4F25-A5EC-7746EC1B08F2@electricdruid.net>
	<6b31ead85018f7fc15ac58d68e46e8bc.squirrel@webmail.blacet.com>
Message-ID: <CAJoLJ5XsJRxPWj7RXtS+a5y3TqocY-ib1A=ovwaSt696deycMw@mail.gmail.com>

If you don't need more than +/- 5% precision and, you can simply use a
Zener. 4.7V or 5.1V have nearly null temperature coefficients. I use
1N5230B. This kind of precision is OK for getting a negative offset
voltage for a VCF - in a CV scaler for a SSM2164 for example. Just
make sure the resistor is low enough and that at least 1mA is flowing
through the diode - otherwise it won't reach the Zener voltage.

I think shunt voltage references can be used as negative references
too. Just tried wiring a LM4040 backwards and it worked. Not
explicitly mentioned in the LM4040 datasheet, but I've already seen
that in the datasheet of other shunt references like the ADR540B.

Olivier


From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Sat May 19 18:28:35 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 09:28:35 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <6b31ead85018f7fc15ac58d68e46e8bc.squirrel@webmail.blacet.com>
References: <4415DFD1-DE05-4F25-A5EC-7746EC1B08F2@electricdruid.net>
	<6b31ead85018f7fc15ac58d68e46e8bc.squirrel@webmail.blacet.com>
Message-ID: <9B2BF43D0B0F4228B3298F6EE063508E@galvanox01>

This whole discussion raises an interesting question (for me, anyway):
Under what circumstances is it important to have a reference of, say,
-5.000V, rather than, for example, a reference of -4.997V or -5.004V which
is nonetheless temperature-stable and rock solid?  In other words, given
that an opamp-derived reference would be rock solid and perfectly stiff, if
not necessarily perfectly accurate, when does this present a problem? 

I use REF02 in VCO circuits, but I never trim them for accuracy, because I
don't actually care if the reference is a few mV off one way or the other.
I simply want it to be dead constant with changing temperature.  In less
critical applications (VCAs, etc), I happily use 78L05/79L05.  Am I screwing
the pooch?



> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of 
> blacet at blacet.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 8:00 AM
> To: synthdiy diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
> 
> Yes, pos through an op amp; low offset maybe?
> 
> Lots of refs out there; look at the LM4040 series for 
> example. Various trimmed grades, one resistor, no cap.
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > What do people do for negative voltage references?
> >
> > Farnell list 1351 voltage references on their website, and 
> only one of 
> > them is negative (-10V).
> >
> > Are we expected to use a positive one and stick it through 
> an op-amp?
> >
> > Or should I just use a 3-pin negative voltage regulator 
> instead? It's 
> > not great, but it's cheap, and you can get negative ones 
> easily enough.
> > REF02's seem to cost ?3-?4 each, which I regard as a lot of 
> money for 
> > the job. A separate regulator costs me ?0.30 or so.
> >
> > All that talk about not using the rails for references must 
> finally be 
> > getting through to me! But unless I can find one, I'm in danger of 
> > slipping back into my bad old ways.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Sat May 19 18:58:24 2012
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 18:58:24 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <CAJoLJ5XsJRxPWj7RXtS+a5y3TqocY-ib1A=ovwaSt696deycMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4415DFD1-DE05-4F25-A5EC-7746EC1B08F2@electricdruid.net>
	<6b31ead85018f7fc15ac58d68e46e8bc.squirrel@webmail.blacet.com>
	<CAJoLJ5XsJRxPWj7RXtS+a5y3TqocY-ib1A=ovwaSt696deycMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FB7D130.4030202@rubidium.dyndns.org>

On 05/19/2012 05:37 PM, Olivier Gillet wrote:
> If you don't need more than +/- 5% precision and, you can simply use a
> Zener. 4.7V or 5.1V have nearly null temperature coefficients. I use
> 1N5230B. This kind of precision is OK for getting a negative offset
> voltage for a VCF - in a CV scaler for a SSM2164 for example. Just
> make sure the resistor is low enough and that at least 1mA is flowing
> through the diode - otherwise it won't reach the Zener voltage.
>
> I think shunt voltage references can be used as negative references
> too. Just tried wiring a LM4040 backwards and it worked. Not
> explicitly mentioned in the LM4040 datasheet, but I've already seen
> that in the datasheet of other shunt references like the ADR540B.

There exists bandgaps which you use just like a zener, so putting them 
on the negative side would work just as well. Look at the classic TL431 
for instance. Naturally, none of the examples I see uses it for negative 
regulation, but most of them should be trivial to setup.

The TL431 has an internal 2,75 V reference, and then a resistor pair 
hooked up across the "zener" to a third terminal scales this 2,75 V.

Cheers,
Magnus


From juzowen at gmail.com  Sat May 19 19:16:44 2012
From: juzowen at gmail.com (Justin Owen)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 18:16:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
Message-ID: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>

>What do people do for negative voltage references?

Hey Tom,

I recently spent some time looking at Vrefs that were 'a bit better than a voltage divider off the rails' and settled on the LM336 which will give you a 5V ref (plus a single resistor) - but can also be flipped to provide a negative Vref.

Ideally, anything you hang off it will need to be via an op amp buffer.

I have a schem here somewhere showing both configs - let me know and I can upload it if you want.

Farnell part numbers: 1468824 (TO-92) & 1564654 (8SOIC).

...having said that - the board I'm working on at the moment, I needed a 2.5V and a -2.5V ref and it turned out to be  more efficient to have a single LM336 providing buffered + refs and inverting - refs.

HTH, YMMV, etc.

Justin



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Sat May 19 19:38:51 2012
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 19:38:51 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <4415DFD1-DE05-4F25-A5EC-7746EC1B08F2@electricdruid.net>
References: <4415DFD1-DE05-4F25-A5EC-7746EC1B08F2@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <1544669.lmEn8TfNla@rainer>

On Saturday 19 May 2012, 15:37:10, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> What do people do for negative voltage references?

A true voltage reference doesn't care what you call it, you can use either 
the positive or negative terminal as the reference voltage.

> Are we expected to use a positive one and stick it through an op-amp?

No, and if you were to do it, you'd need a rather expensive op-amp to get it 
right.

> Or should I just use a 3-pin negative voltage regulator instead? It's not
> great, but it's cheap, and you can get negative ones easily enough.
> REF02's seem to cost ?3-?4 each, which I regard as a lot of money for the
> job. A separate regulator costs me ?0.30 or so.

There are lots of cheaper voltage references, but be sure to read the 
datasheets (and between their lines) to understand the tradeoffs.  But as I 
said before, voltage references have become so good that they are almost 
always better than what you'd otherwise use in their place.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Wavetables for the Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldUserWavetables



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Sat May 19 19:53:59 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 10:53:59 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>

> Ideally, anything you hang off it will need to be via an op 
> amp buffer.

That's really important.  One must take a close look at the current specs
for whatever is used.  LM4040 is pretty low.  REF02 is better.

For me personally, the best practice is to buffer and invert any reference
voltage with a dual opamp, and then you can use any single positive
reference and you don't have to worry about it.



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sun May 20 00:08:48 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 18:08:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Seeking for black Moog system wood screws..
References: <p06240809cbcdf36d0a80@[192.168.1.70]>
Message-ID: <7F9A91F64903448BBDE3845B4E2DD3E5@HPLYNE>

I'm looking for the 'same type of ' black wood screws Moog used for modules
in their modular systems years ago..
Here is a picture of some:
http://www.arcenson.com/public/Moog%20system%20wood%20screws.JPG

I also noticed that Hammond used the same type for their B3 metal face plate
with the Hammond Logo:
http://www.arcenson.com/public/Hammond%20B3%20face%20plate%20screws.JPG

Is there anybody that would have a good link to buy some today?
Please note they are not TRUSS screws like these:
http://www.weifeng-fastener.com/photo/original_d8fac25820ba1e91cb6bb9eccf3bd81d/modified-truss-head-with-self-drilling-screw.jpg
or these:
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00lBGtEAWJAicK/pH-Truss-Head-Tapping-Screw.jpg

Those I'm looking for have a flat surface at the cross center of the screw.
Any suppliers ?

Thanks
J-Pierre 



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun May 20 00:10:00 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 23:10:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>
	<E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>
Message-ID: <A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>


On 19 May 2012, at 18:53, David G Dixon wrote:

>> Ideally, anything you hang off it will need to be via an op 
>> amp buffer.
> 
> That's really important.  One must take a close look at the current specs
> for whatever is used.  LM4040 is pretty low.  REF02 is better.
> 
> For me personally, the best practice is to buffer and invert any reference
> voltage with a dual opamp, and then you can use any single positive
> reference and you don't have to worry about it.

Ok, so the advantage of the "cheap regulator" over the "expensive reference" would be that you don't need any buffer, since a voltage regulator can provide as much current as you're likely to need. After all, you could easily spec the regulator for 1A or more. The disadvantage is that the regulation isn't that good, especially if the load is low. I've got a L7905CV on my breadboard which is supposed to be producing -5V and is actually producing -6.8V. I expect it would improve a great deal if I stuck an LED across it, but it seems a bit crazy. I wanted to use a 79L05 but didn't have one to hand, so used the "next nearest".
Hence the original question about negative voltage references.

Thanks,
Tom






From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Sun May 20 03:22:38 2012
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:22:38 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com><E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>
	<A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <DBBDB00EBDEE42CCA273B9BED5D7803E@ownerf0d9273f5>

Some negative regulators only regulate whwn they have a current flowing 
through them.
That is probably the case here.
Mind you, a 'regulator' is not a 'reference' - or at least not a GOOD one!

----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Tom Wiltshire"
 >I've got a L7905CV on my breadboard which is supposed to be producing -5V 
and is >actually producing -6.8V.

paul perry Melbourne Australia



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Sun May 20 03:34:16 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 18:34:16 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>
	<E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>
	<A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <0339D9906E13451BA016014265936A52@galvanox01>

I use 79L05 all the time for -5V regulation, particularly with linearized
2164 VCA circuits.  It works great.  Those will source up to 100 mA (but
they do get pretty warm at that current).  I only use bandgap references in
VCO circuits.  I've never used the big 7905s (the ones with the big hunk of
metal on the side) so I can't comment on those.  The 79L05 comes in a TO-92
package.

What's it for, anyway?

 
> >> Ideally, anything you hang off it will need to be via an op amp 
> >> buffer.
> > 
> > That's really important.  One must take a close look at the current 
> > specs for whatever is used.  LM4040 is pretty low.  REF02 is better.
> > 
> > For me personally, the best practice is to buffer and invert any 
> > reference voltage with a dual opamp, and then you can use 
> any single 
> > positive reference and you don't have to worry about it.
> 
> Ok, so the advantage of the "cheap regulator" over the 
> "expensive reference" would be that you don't need any 
> buffer, since a voltage regulator can provide as much current 
> as you're likely to need. After all, you could easily spec 
> the regulator for 1A or more. The disadvantage is that the 
> regulation isn't that good, especially if the load is low. 
> I've got a L7905CV on my breadboard which is supposed to be 
> producing -5V and is actually producing -6.8V. I expect it 
> would improve a great deal if I stuck an LED across it, but 
> it seems a bit crazy. I wanted to use a 79L05 but didn't have 
> one to hand, so used the "next nearest".
> Hence the original question about negative voltage references.



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Sun May 20 04:37:46 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (dan snazelle)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 22:37:46 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] How automatic is the DSP on the dsPIC33f??
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP2885D69A5DD16F6E1B904D8C81C0@phx.gbl>

Lets say I program something in the C30 compiler for Mplab using the Dspic33fj64gp802 as the device.
in order to take advantage of things like MAC, and the things contained in the DSP library, is it necessary to program in some special way?

or does the C30 compiler do a good job of figuring out which sections of C code could and should be converted to code the DSP section of the DSPIC can process?


otherwise, without knowing how to implement the DSP section, it seems the dsPIC33f series would operate no differently than a PIC24 with a DAC built in.


thanks for any info or advice




From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Sun May 20 04:59:30 2012
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 19:59:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] How automatic is the DSP on the dsPIC33f??
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP2885D69A5DD16F6E1B904D8C81C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP2885D69A5DD16F6E1B904D8C81C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4FB85E12.5070802@cox.net>

On 05/19/2012 07:37 PM, dan snazelle wrote:
> Lets say I program something in the C30 compiler for Mplab using the Dspic33fj64gp802 as the device.
> in order to take advantage of things like MAC, and the things contained in the DSP library, is it necessary to program in some special way?
>
> or does the C30 compiler do a good job of figuring out which sections of C code could and should be converted to code the DSP section of the DSPIC can process?
>
> otherwise, without knowing how to implement the DSP section, it seems the dsPIC33f series would operate no differently than a PIC24 with a DAC built in.

While the C30 compiler claims to support the accumulators and has some 
limited intrinsics, when using standard C coding practices it doesn't 
know diddly about the DSP features. In order to maximize the use of the 
MAC you'll have to code in assembly language, explicitly invoke 
intrinsics or use the routines in the MCHP DSP library.

I typically code in a mixture of C and assembly - C for all the setup 
and control flow, with custom assembly functions linked in that handle 
all my DSP. It's fairly straightforward, but you do have to get up close 
and personal with the dsPIC instruction set. There's really no way 
around that. As you noted, without taking some special measures you 
might as well be using a PIC24.

Eric


From andy at cytomic.com  Sun May 20 05:05:19 2012
From: andy at cytomic.com (Andrew Simper)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:05:19 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAAxOnzZK+uJn42-SJ=5UfdOaLwMgWhoj-bzvvj9ihUnuTDwThw@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 May 2012 04:48, Stewart Pye <stewpye at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> I've converted a few 110V synths for 240V but I can't remember if the MS20 was one of them.
>
> From the circuit it looks like you could just replace the transformer if you can find a suitable one, and fit it in there. If your closest choice is 18V or 15V secondaries I'd go with the 15V one, as the unregulated DC is marked as 18V on the schematic. The power dissipation across the regulator may be too high if you use 18V secondaries.
>
> Something like this would be suitable:
> http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=M5015
>
> If dropout voltage is a problem you could then replace the regulators with low dropout types such as the LM2940-15.
>
> Regards,
> Stewart.


Hi ?Stewart,

Thanks loads for going to the trouble to let me know a transformer to
use! Do you happen to live in Perth as well? You posted a link to
Altronics which is my local supplier.

Are there any problems with having a 15V secondary instead of an 18V
one? Will that still give 15V at the regulator's output?

Cheers,

Andy
--
cytomic - sound music software




>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/18/2012 12:44 AM, Andrew Simper wrote:
>>
>> I want to buy an MS-20 rev2, but the only ones I can find all have
>> Japanese 100V power supplies. I have a friends 240V MS20 rev2 here and
>> there is a transformer and fuse mounted on the chassie and then a
>> tripple core wire from the transformer that is soldered directly onto
>> the main PCB. Does anyone know if it is simply a matter of changing
>> that transformer?
>>
>> I'm assuming that the rev2 has the same power supply as the rev1:
>> http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/images/service/ms20/circ1.gif
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andy
>> --
>> cytomic - sound music software
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From andy at cytomic.com  Sun May 20 05:08:58 2012
From: andy at cytomic.com (Andrew Simper)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:08:58 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <CAAxOnzZK+uJn42-SJ=5UfdOaLwMgWhoj-bzvvj9ihUnuTDwThw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
	<CAAxOnzZK+uJn42-SJ=5UfdOaLwMgWhoj-bzvvj9ihUnuTDwThw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAxOnzbCPk3Ry1nyWFNEHwmOPmnxtrUPhznSh+eDCt67j2d53g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the advice everyone! I feel more confident buying the
110V version now and replacing some parts.

All the best,

Andy


From paul at fitvideo.co.uk  Sun May 20 09:09:17 2012
From: paul at fitvideo.co.uk (Paul Burns)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 08:09:17 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Korg VC-10
Message-ID: <000401cd3657$78d804d0$6a880e70$@co.uk>

Good Morning,

I have a very distressed VC-10 which works, thankfully, but is in desperate
need of some TLC. 
The case is RUSTY(!) , blotches all over,  the previous owner deliberately
removed the goose neck mic , (so he could balance more equipment on top),
one side is missing , and it has one broken key.
My thoughts were to get some wooden sides made for it , but what about the
key? 
Any source info or thoughts on how to bring it back to its former glory
would be very much appreciated.

Regards

Paul Burns.
 



From john at hvidlykke.dk  Sun May 20 09:39:05 2012
From: john at hvidlykke.dk (John Alex Hvidlykke)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:39:05 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Korg VC-10
In-Reply-To: <000401cd3657$78d804d0$6a880e70$@co.uk>
References: <000401cd3657$78d804d0$6a880e70$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <1BAF958E-A852-4248-B46F-059F393163AB@hvidlykke.dk>

Oooh!
That poor little thing! Best of luck...

Den 20/05/2012 kl. 09.09 skrev "Paul Burns" <paul at fitvideo.co.uk>:

> Good Morning,
> 
> I have a very distressed VC-10 which works, thankfully, but is in desperate
> need of some TLC. 
> The case is RUSTY(!) , blotches all over,  the previous owner deliberately
> removed the goose neck mic , (so he could balance more equipment on top),
> one side is missing , and it has one broken key.
> My thoughts were to get some wooden sides made for it , but what about the
> key? 
> Any source info or thoughts on how to bring it back to its former glory
> would be very much appreciated.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Paul Burns.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sun May 20 09:43:03 2012
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 08:43:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Korg VC-10
In-Reply-To: <000401cd3657$78d804d0$6a880e70$@co.uk>
References: <000401cd3657$78d804d0$6a880e70$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <4FB8A087.50704@gjcp.net>

On 20/05/12 08:09, Paul Burns wrote:

> My thoughts were to get some wooden sides made for it , but what about the
> key?

There are companies that make wooden sides, and I'd be deeply surprised 
if the key wasn't common to half a dozen makes and models.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ


From paul at fitvideo.co.uk  Sun May 20 10:47:32 2012
From: paul at fitvideo.co.uk (Paul Burns)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:47:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Korg VC-10
In-Reply-To: <4FB8ACFA.7000606@imt.net>
References: <000401cd3657$78d804d0$6a880e70$@co.uk> <4FB8ACFA.7000606@imt.net>
Message-ID: <000601cd3665$345820c0$9d086240$@co.uk>

Thank you all , it is the D3, broken at the joint where the key thins
between the black notes.

There are some missing knobs , but it does a fine rendition of Sakamoto's
1000 Knives, which he credits on the album. 

Many thanks

Paul

www.fitvideo.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Weigel [mailto:sounddoctorin at imt.net] 
Sent: 20 May 2012 09:36
To: Paul Burns
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Korg VC-10

On 5/20/2012 1:09 AM, Paul Burns wrote:
> Good Morning,
>
> I have a very distressed VC-10 which works, thankfully, but is in 
> desperate need of some TLC.
> The case is RUSTY(!) , blotches all over,  the previous owner 
> deliberately removed the goose neck mic , (so he could balance more 
> equipment on top), one side is missing , and it has one broken key.
> My thoughts were to get some wooden sides made for it , but what about 
> the key?
> Any source info or thoughts on how to bring it back to its former 
> glory would be very much appreciated.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Burns.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>    
THey're the old korg keys on that one of course.  I should have it. If it's
the high C we try to fix the hinge breaks since they're so rare which always
works well.

--
Check out sounddoctorin.com for songs, a studio tour, help repairing old
synthesizers and parts or thought provoking articles that could help make
your eternity!

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5009 - Release Date: 05/19/12



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun May 20 11:43:59 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:43:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] How automatic is the DSP on the dsPIC33f??
In-Reply-To: <4FB85E12.5070802@cox.net>
References: <BLU0-SMTP2885D69A5DD16F6E1B904D8C81C0@phx.gbl>
	<4FB85E12.5070802@cox.net>
Message-ID: <29E7E7BB-6564-414A-9134-2123E02B01DD@electricdruid.net>


On 20 May 2012, at 03:59, Eric Brombaugh wrote:

> On 05/19/2012 07:37 PM, dan snazelle wrote:
>> Lets say I program something in the C30 compiler for Mplab using the Dspic33fj64gp802 as the device.
>> in order to take advantage of things like MAC, and the things contained in the DSP library, is it necessary to program in some special way?
>> 
>> or does the C30 compiler do a good job of figuring out which sections of C code could and should be converted to code the DSP section of the DSPIC can process?
>> 
>> otherwise, without knowing how to implement the DSP section, it seems the dsPIC33f series would operate no differently than a PIC24 with a DAC built in.
> 
> While the C30 compiler claims to support the accumulators and has some limited intrinsics, when using standard C coding practices it doesn't know diddly about the DSP features. In order to maximize the use of the MAC you'll have to code in assembly language, explicitly invoke intrinsics or use the routines in the MCHP DSP library.
> 
> I typically code in a mixture of C and assembly - C for all the setup and control flow, with custom assembly functions linked in that handle all my DSP. It's fairly straightforward, but you do have to get up close and personal with the dsPIC instruction set. There's really no way around that. As you noted, without taking some special measures you might as well be using a PIC24.


I second that. I either use straight assembly, or C with assembly for the calculation routines.

T.



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun May 20 12:02:01 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:02:01 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <0339D9906E13451BA016014265936A52@galvanox01>
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>
	<E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>
	<A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>
	<0339D9906E13451BA016014265936A52@galvanox01>
Message-ID: <4813CB24-6F98-4F55-95F9-20E93DCC2F37@electricdruid.net>


On 20 May 2012, at 02:34, David G Dixon wrote:

> I use 79L05 all the time for -5V regulation, particularly with linearized
> 2164 VCA circuits.  It works great.  Those will source up to 100 mA (but
> they do get pretty warm at that current).  I only use bandgap references in
> VCO circuits.  I've never used the big 7905s (the ones with the big hunk of
> metal on the side) so I can't comment on those.  The 79L05 comes in a TO-92
> package.

As I said, I'd have used a 79L05 if I'd had one. The chunky 7905 isn't doing the job without enough current pulled out of it.

> What's it for, anyway?

I'm working on a digital oscillator based on the new PIC 16F1847. I need -2.5V to cancel offsets for bipolar CVs coming into the PICs ADC channels.

T.



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Sun May 20 15:45:22 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 14:45:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <4813CB24-6F98-4F55-95F9-20E93DCC2F37@electricdruid.net>
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>
	<E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>
	<A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>
	<0339D9906E13451BA016014265936A52@galvanox01>
	<4813CB24-6F98-4F55-95F9-20E93DCC2F37@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <4FB8F572.8060607@ntlworld.com>

Hi Tom,

> As I said, I'd have used a 79L05 if I'd had one. The chunky 7905
> isn't doing the job without enough current pulled out of it.

Well, even the 79L05 has a minimum current requirement.  According to 
the TI/NS datasheet it's only 1mA, but it's still a requirement to be in 
spec.

Cheers
Neil
-- 
Modules and more :: www.cesyg.com
Homepage :: www.njohnson.co.uk ::


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sun May 20 16:28:21 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:28:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Seeking for black Moog system wood screws..
References: <p06240809cbcdf36d0a80@[192.168.1.70]>
	<7F9A91F64903448BBDE3845B4E2DD3E5@HPLYNE>
	<F3AFC0DD-7376-4D88-B517-ED510609E4CD@wintherstormer.no>
Message-ID: <6A56E2073557451EA44D090BA3F76355@HPLYNE>

Hi Terje,

Thanks for your reply.
Synthesizers.com screws are close to what Moog used
but they have thicker heads and are more 'showing'
on their system's front panels. I like what screws Moog and Hammond
used because they 'merged' with their front panels..

JP


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Terje Winther" <terje.winther at wintherstormer.no>
To: "Jean-Pierre Desrochers" <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Seeking for black Moog system wood screws..


>I believe the synthesizers.com screws are identical:
> http://www.synthesizers.com/cabinets.html#parts
>
> Terje
>
>
> Den 20. mai. 2012 kl. 00.08 skrev Jean-Pierre Desrochers:
>
>> I'm looking for the 'same type of ' black wood screws Moog used for 
>> modules
>> in their modular systems years ago..
>> Here is a picture of some:
>> http://www.arcenson.com/public/Moog%20system%20wood%20screws.JPG
>>
>> I also noticed that Hammond used the same type for their B3 metal  face 
>> plate
>> with the Hammond Logo:
>> http://www.arcenson.com/public/Hammond%20B3%20face%20plate %20screws.JPG
>>
>> Is there anybody that would have a good link to buy some today?
>> Please note they are not TRUSS screws like these:
>> http://www.weifeng-fastener.com/photo/original_d8fac25820ba1e91cb6bb9eccf3bd81d/modified-truss-head-with-self-drilling-screw.jpg
>> or these:
>> http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00lBGtEAWJAicK/pH-Truss-Head-Tapping-Screw.jpg
>>
>> Those I'm looking for have a flat surface at the cross center of the 
>> screw.
>> Any suppliers ?
>>
>> Thanks
>> J-Pierre
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> Terje Winther
> terje.winther at wintherstormer.no
> http://www.wintherstormer.no/
>
>
>
> 



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun May 20 16:43:55 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 15:43:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <4FB8F572.8060607@ntlworld.com>
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>
	<E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>
	<A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>
	<0339D9906E13451BA016014265936A52@galvanox01>
	<4813CB24-6F98-4F55-95F9-20E93DCC2F37@electricdruid.net>
	<4FB8F572.8060607@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <8115C5BC-61EB-4FE3-A6EB-B683F5D4E015@electricdruid.net>


On 20 May 2012, at 14:45, Neil Johnson wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
>> As I said, I'd have used a 79L05 if I'd had one. The chunky 7905
>> isn't doing the job without enough current pulled out of it.
> 
> Well, even the 79L05 has a minimum current requirement.  According to the TI/NS datasheet it's only 1mA, but it's still a requirement to be in spec.

Well, at least that's an improvement on the 5mA or so minimum that the 7905 needs!

1mA pulled from my -5V voltage is a total resistance less than 5K. It's true that currently I'm still well above that, since most of the CV op-amps have 200K input resistors for the offset, and you need a lot of those in series to get 5K. Still, I can always bang a 4K7 or 3K3 across the regulator output.

How do you deal with the minimum current requirement in your 2164 VCAs, David?

Thanks,
Tom



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Sun May 20 20:48:21 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:48:21 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <8115C5BC-61EB-4FE3-A6EB-B683F5D4E015@electricdruid.net>
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>
	<E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>
	<A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>
	<0339D9906E13451BA016014265936A52@galvanox01>
	<4813CB24-6F98-4F55-95F9-20E93DCC2F37@electricdruid.net>
	<4FB8F572.8060607@ntlworld.com>
	<8115C5BC-61EB-4FE3-A6EB-B683F5D4E015@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <A7ACFEEDA6E84DD28585E0D8CAE91028@galvanox01>

> How do you deal with the minimum current requirement in your 
> 2164 VCAs, David?

Honestly, I wasn't aware of this requirement.  It isn't explicitly stated in
the datasheet, other than by the fact that 1 mA appears as a lower limit in
the voltage spec table entries.  This could mean simply that they only
measured it over that range.  There is a plot in the datasheet which shows
dropout voltages down to 0 mA output current, and which aren't that
different from those at 10 mA.

In my VCA circuit, I've got six 100k resistors to ground from the 79L05, so
I'm only pulling about 0.3 mA.  I just measured the output of the 79L05, and
it was -5.03V.  When I put a 4.99k resistor from the output to ground, thus
bringing the output current to 1.3 mA, the output voltage went to -5.03V.
No change within the accuracy of my DVM.

I would say that this is not worth losing sleep over.




From jays at aracnet.com  Sun May 20 21:51:06 2012
From: jays at aracnet.com (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:51:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <A7ACFEEDA6E84DD28585E0D8CAE91028@galvanox01>
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>	<E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>	<A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>	<0339D9906E13451BA016014265936A52@galvanox01>	<4813CB24-6F98-4F55-95F9-20E93DCC2F37@electricdruid.net>	<4FB8F572.8060607@ntlworld.com>	<8115C5BC-61EB-4FE3-A6EB-B683F5D4E015@electricdruid.net>
	<A7ACFEEDA6E84DD28585E0D8CAE91028@galvanox01>
Message-ID: <000d01cd36c1$e5aed240$b10c76c0$@com>

David,

" I would say that this is not worth losing sleep over."

No offence here, but I'd argue on this one. I'd go with the spec. I've been
on several projects where the EEs didn't pay attention to things like this
and its bitten them. It doesn't look good on their resume when there has
been 10000 units shipped and then most the units in manufacturing start
failing and the product line is shut down. Turns out it's the original stock
of parts has been exhausted and they've ordered the next batch of parts from
a different, cheaper vendor. It suprises me that they can get a dozen or so
units from China to the states overnight and on the engineers desk when this
happens. More than once I've seen this happen.

Even though the parts that you have work, somewhere someone will use a
different brand or batch that will not exceed the specs and they're hosed.
Also on common parts that are multi-sourced it's not a bad idea to get a
number of data sheets and go with the lowest speced one because even though
they have the same part number they may have slightly different specs.

Jay S.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of David G Dixon
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:48 AM
To: 'Tom Wiltshire'; 'Neil Johnson'
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Negative voltage references

> How do you deal with the minimum current requirement in your 
> 2164 VCAs, David?

Honestly, I wasn't aware of this requirement.  It isn't explicitly stated in
the datasheet, other than by the fact that 1 mA appears as a lower limit in
the voltage spec table entries.  This could mean simply that they only
measured it over that range.  There is a plot in the datasheet which shows
dropout voltages down to 0 mA output current, and which aren't that
different from those at 10 mA.

In my VCA circuit, I've got six 100k resistors to ground from the 79L05, so
I'm only pulling about 0.3 mA.  I just measured the output of the 79L05, and
it was -5.03V.  When I put a 4.99k resistor from the output to ground, thus
bringing the output current to 1.3 mA, the output voltage went to -5.03V.
No change within the accuracy of my DVM.

I would say that this is not worth losing sleep over.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Sun May 20 22:04:50 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:04:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Synth DIY UK - one month to book rooms
Message-ID: <4FB94E62.2060301@ntlworld.com>

Hi all,

Just a gentle reminder that the closing date for room bookings is 20th June:

http://diy.synth.net/uk

Raffle prize list is looking rather tempting again!!  Thanks to all of 
our generous sponsors.

Cheers,
Neil
-- 
Modules and more :: www.cesyg.com
Homepage :: www.njohnson.co.uk ::


From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Sun May 20 22:08:29 2012
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 22:08:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Korg VC-10
In-Reply-To: <000601cd3665$345820c0$9d086240$@co.uk>
References: <000401cd3657$78d804d0$6a880e70$@co.uk>
	<4FB8ACFA.7000606@imt.net>,<000601cd3665$345820c0$9d086240$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <B156A86831A33949A0977840648802477541559D08@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>

Hi Paul!

The D3 ist just broken? So you have all parts?
then it would be possible to glue it with a good two component glue like the UHU endfest 300
http://www.uhu-profishop.de/en/2-Component-adhesives
I did the same with a key on my Yamaha AN1x and it nearly can't be seen and is rock solid.

Otherwise the keys should be the same as on the MS10 and MS20 but maybe also hard to get these days...

Ciao
Peter

http://www.ullrich.at.tt


________________________________________
Von: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl [synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] im Auftrag von Paul Burns [paul at fitvideo.co.uk]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. Mai 2012 10:47
An: 'Bob Weigel'
Cc: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Korg VC-10

Thank you all , it is the D3, broken at the joint where the key thins
between the black notes.

There are some missing knobs , but it does a fine rendition of Sakamoto's
1000 Knives, which he credits on the album.

Many thanks

Paul

www.fitvideo.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Weigel [mailto:sounddoctorin at imt.net]
Sent: 20 May 2012 09:36
To: Paul Burns
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Korg VC-10

On 5/20/2012 1:09 AM, Paul Burns wrote:
> Good Morning,
>
> I have a very distressed VC-10 which works, thankfully, but is in
> desperate need of some TLC.
> The case is RUSTY(!) , blotches all over,  the previous owner
> deliberately removed the goose neck mic , (so he could balance more
> equipment on top), one side is missing , and it has one broken key.
> My thoughts were to get some wooden sides made for it , but what about
> the key?
> Any source info or thoughts on how to bring it back to its former
> glory would be very much appreciated.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Burns.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
THey're the old korg keys on that one of course.  I should have it. If it's
the high C we try to fix the hinge breaks since they're so rare which always
works well.

--
Check out sounddoctorin.com for songs, a studio tour, help repairing old
synthesizers and parts or thought provoking articles that could help make
your eternity!

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5009 - Release Date: 05/19/12

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and
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who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his
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informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents
thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail
immediately.




From colin at colinfraser.com  Sun May 20 22:13:26 2012
From: colin at colinfraser.com (colin f)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:13:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Synth DIY UK - one month to book rooms
In-Reply-To: <4FB94E62.2060301@ntlworld.com>
References: <4FB94E62.2060301@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <8277C9846050480B85716CE9D15EB29A@zen>

 
> Raffle prize list is looking rather tempting again!!  Thanks 
> to all of our generous sponsors.

Maybe we should be getting some sponsorship from Hormel Foods ?
They've been on the prize list every year.

Cheers,
Colin f




From keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk  Sun May 20 22:19:00 2012
From: keithw at cix.compulink.co.uk (Keith Winstanley)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:19 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] Synth DIY UK - one month to book rooms
Message-ID: <memo.527632@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <4FB94E62.2060301 at ntlworld.com>
I wont be able to book till 1st, praying there are still rooms left!!

Keith




From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Sun May 20 23:13:46 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 22:13:46 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Synth DIY UK - one month to book rooms
In-Reply-To: <8277C9846050480B85716CE9D15EB29A@zen>
References: <4FB94E62.2060301@ntlworld.com>
	<8277C9846050480B85716CE9D15EB29A@zen>
Message-ID: <4FB95E8A.2000204@ntlworld.com>

colin f wrote:
>
>> Raffle prize list is looking rather tempting again!!  Thanks
>> to all of our generous sponsors.
>
> Maybe we should be getting some sponsorship from Hormel Foods ?
> They've been on the prize list every year.

Don't worry it'll be there!!!

Cheers,
Neil
-- 
Modules and more :: www.cesyg.com
Homepage :: www.njohnson.co.uk ::


From gil_we at yahoo.com  Mon May 21 00:05:56 2012
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 15:05:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Jupiter 8 doesn't boot
Message-ID: <1337551556.44168.YahooMailClassic@web161705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

It's interesting as I just read Mike's post about his JP6 no functioning.

My JP8 has given me no issues at all up until today, when I powered it on, it booted up just fine, showing the running led sequence 4 times as always, but then a few seconds after than, the LED screen went blank, with all button leds also shutting down, except for the two LFO leds, which blinks with no logical sequence... Tweaking the LFO by moving their sliders doesn't make any change in their behaviour.

I already checked the main voltages (+15, -15, +5) which were fine. I reseat all connectors. No change.

One thing which was interesting is that I pushed the 3 ROM chips a bit inside, and still all LEDs were dead but the LFO leds did function move in a logical sequence (constant rate) - but the next power up, they stopped moving in a constant sequence :/

I really don't know were to start as I don't even have any oscilloscope ion hand, only a DVM.

I read your comments about the JP6 problem Mike has, which is quite similar to my JP8, telling there's a specific transistor which tends to fail. I see a 2SC1815 all over in the JP8. Is it also a notorious part in that means ?

Thanks for any help !


From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Mon May 21 03:50:28 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 18:50:28 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <000d01cd36c1$e5aed240$b10c76c0$@com>
References: <4fb7d57e.b448b40a.38d1.1f5f@mx.google.com>	<E1E93D256F484A4FAB8B3E2E63C63249@galvanox01>	<A7F28A9F-4C77-4F9D-89FE-71D364BBAEAF@electricdruid.net>	<0339D9906E13451BA016014265936A52@galvanox01>	<4813CB24-6F98-4F55-95F9-20E93DCC2F37@electricdruid.net>	<4FB8F572.8060607@ntlworld.com>	<8115C5BC-61EB-4FE3-A6EB-B683F5D4E015@electricdruid.net><A7ACFEEDA6E84DD28585E0D8CAE91028@galvanox01>
	<000d01cd36c1$e5aed240$b10c76c0$@com>
Message-ID: <C178F5E3EDC64D1BB377B6DC286E1594@galvanox01>

> David,
> 
> " I would say that this is not worth losing sleep over."
> 
> No offence here, but I'd argue on this one. I'd go with the 
> spec. I've been on several projects where the EEs didn't pay 
> attention to things like this and its bitten them. It doesn't 
> look good on their resume when there has been 10000 units 
> shipped and then most the units in manufacturing start 
> failing and the product line is shut down. Turns out it's the 
> original stock of parts has been exhausted and they've 
> ordered the next batch of parts from a different, cheaper 
> vendor. It suprises me that they can get a dozen or so units 
> from China to the states overnight and on the engineers desk 
> when this happens. More than once I've seen this happen.
> 
> Even though the parts that you have work, somewhere someone 
> will use a different brand or batch that will not exceed the 
> specs and they're hosed.
> Also on common parts that are multi-sourced it's not a bad 
> idea to get a number of data sheets and go with the lowest 
> speced one because even though they have the same part number 
> they may have slightly different specs.

I hear you.  However, in this case, I'm not even sure that this is a "spec"
per se.  Nowhere in the datasheet does it say that one must pass at least 1
mA through the device.  the only reference to 1 mA is in the voltage output
specs in the table, where the current is specified between 1 and 100 mA.  It
doesn't say that the device won't work properly if it is not passing at
least 1 mA, and there is one plot where the curve is drawn at 0 mA output.
Why would they bother plotting data at this current if this were not a
viable current for operating the device?

Also, in my case, I only use 79L05 in "non-critical" situations, where I
don't really care all that much how close the reference is, or whether it's
constant with temperature, etc.  In critical situations, I would use a
bandgap reference.



From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Mon May 21 05:50:05 2012
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:50:05 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Korg VC-10
In-Reply-To: <B156A86831A33949A0977840648802477541559D08@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>
References: <000401cd3657$78d804d0$6a880e70$@co.uk>	<4FB8ACFA.7000606@imt.net>,
	<000601cd3665$345820c0$9d086240$@co.uk>
	<B156A86831A33949A0977840648802477541559D08@S060VS20.kapsch.co.at>
Message-ID: <4FB9BB6D.1050906@imt.net>

On 5/20/2012 2:08 PM, Ullrich Peter wrote:
> Hi Paul!
>
> The D3 ist just broken? So you have all parts?
> then it would be possible to glue it with a good two component glue like the UHU endfest 300
> http://www.uhu-profishop.de/en/2-Component-adhesives
> I did the same with a key on my Yamaha AN1x and it nearly can't be seen and is rock solid.
>
> Otherwise the keys should be the same as on the MS10 and MS20 but maybe also hard to get these days...
>
> Ciao
> Peter
>
> http://www.ullrich.at.tt
>
>
> _
THe plastics used in these keys ...you can normally just carefully heat things and melt them back together.  I'll use super glue to temporarily hold them together then avoid the vapors when I melt it of course. Nasty stuff.  In general though I have the keys if it's too bad of a break.



From stewpye at optusnet.com.au  Mon May 21 10:17:45 2012
From: stewpye at optusnet.com.au (Stewart Pye)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 18:17:45 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <CAAxOnzZK+uJn42-SJ=5UfdOaLwMgWhoj-bzvvj9ihUnuTDwThw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
	<CAAxOnzZK+uJn42-SJ=5UfdOaLwMgWhoj-bzvvj9ihUnuTDwThw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FB9FA29.8030403@optusnet.com.au>

Hi Andy,

With a 15 volt secondary there is the chance of the unregulated voltage 
being too low, so the regulator will drop out of regulation. This is why 
I said you could change the regulators for low dropout type if 
necessary. Where I live the voltage never goes below 240V so it would 
probably be OK.

Others have said that the regulators in the MS20 don't get too hot so 
you may be better off using a transformer with 18V secondaries, that way 
the drop out voltage won't be a problem. It would be a good idea to 
change the filter caps to 35V as Oscar mentioned. If you change the 
filter caps and fit the 18V transformer the worst thing that can happen 
is the regulators will get too hot and go into thermal shut down. You 
won't kill the synth. Maybe go with that one.

You will have to change the fuse to a slow blow type and lower value 
depending on the transformer you use.

I live in Brisbane. The company I work for purchases some components 
from Altronics wholesale.


Regards,
Stewart.


On 5/20/2012 1:05 PM, Andrew Simper wrote:
> On 18 May 2012 04:48, Stewart Pye<stewpye at optusnet.com.au>  wrote:
>> Hi Andy,
>>
>> I've converted a few 110V synths for 240V but I can't remember if the MS20 was one of them.
>>
>>  From the circuit it looks like you could just replace the transformer if you can find a suitable one, and fit it in there. If your closest choice is 18V or 15V secondaries I'd go with the 15V one, as the unregulated DC is marked as 18V on the schematic. The power dissipation across the regulator may be too high if you use 18V secondaries.
>>
>> Something like this would be suitable:
>> http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=M5015
>>
>> If dropout voltage is a problem you could then replace the regulators with low dropout types such as the LM2940-15.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Stewart.
>
> Hi  Stewart,
>
> Thanks loads for going to the trouble to let me know a transformer to
> use! Do you happen to live in Perth as well? You posted a link to
> Altronics which is my local supplier.
>
> Are there any problems with having a 15V secondary instead of an 18V
> one? Will that still give 15V at the regulator's output?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
> --
> cytomic - sound music software
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/18/2012 12:44 AM, Andrew Simper wrote:
>>> I want to buy an MS-20 rev2, but the only ones I can find all have
>>> Japanese 100V power supplies. I have a friends 240V MS20 rev2 here and
>>> there is a transformer and fuse mounted on the chassie and then a
>>> tripple core wire from the transformer that is soldered directly onto
>>> the main PCB. Does anyone know if it is simply a matter of changing
>>> that transformer?
>>>
>>> I'm assuming that the rev2 has the same power supply as the rev1:
>>> http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/images/service/ms20/circ1.gif
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> --
>>> cytomic - sound music software
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From gil_we at yahoo.com  Mon May 21 12:00:12 2012
From: gil_we at yahoo.com (Gil W.)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 03:00:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] ARM DSO Nano oscilloscope - good enough for fixing synths ?
Message-ID: <1337594412.653.YahooMailClassic@web161702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I don't have an oscilloscope in hand yet, and thought about something compact which I can use for debugging and tuning analog synths.

Will this do the work ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARM-DSO-Nano-Pocket-Sized-Digital-Oscilloscope-/200470598507?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2eacfa936b#ht_7624wt_906




From andy at cytomic.com  Mon May 21 14:13:49 2012
From: andy at cytomic.com (Andrew Simper)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 20:13:49 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] MS-20 psu conversion from 100V to 240V
In-Reply-To: <4FB9FA29.8030403@optusnet.com.au>
References: <CAAxOnzZc30zQiuVVx7TXSihODytRu5idc9rY1N=N=LfNcT3mvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB56436.9080407@optusnet.com.au>
	<CAAxOnzZK+uJn42-SJ=5UfdOaLwMgWhoj-bzvvj9ihUnuTDwThw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FB9FA29.8030403@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAAxOnzamxQ=8nfCSaQUS+zj-1n0cRCBNFC=bv47YZL1BPWm9iw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stewart,

Thanks so much for the great advice. I'm really new to all this and
fiddling with mains voltage circuits scares the crap out of me! It's
great to know the regulators will just get too hot and switch off and
nothing will get fried. I'll change the caps and transformer and let
you know how it all goes in around a months time when I get back to
Australia with the MS20.

Cheers,

Andy
--
cytomic - sound music software



On 21 May 2012 16:17, Stewart Pye <stewpye at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> With a 15 volt secondary there is the chance of the unregulated voltage
> being too low, so the regulator will drop out of regulation. This is why I
> said you could change the regulators for low dropout type if necessary.
> Where I live the voltage never goes below 240V so it would probably be OK.
>
> Others have said that the regulators in the MS20 don't get too hot so you
> may be better off using a transformer with 18V secondaries, that way the
> drop out voltage won't be a problem. It would be a good idea to change the
> filter caps to 35V as Oscar mentioned. If you change the filter caps and fit
> the 18V transformer the worst thing that can happen is the regulators will
> get too hot and go into thermal shut down. You won't kill the synth. Maybe
> go with that one.
>
> You will have to change the fuse to a slow blow type and lower value
> depending on the transformer you use.
>
> I live in Brisbane. The company I work for purchases some components from
> Altronics wholesale.
>
>
> Regards,
> Stewart.
>
>
>
> On 5/20/2012 1:05 PM, Andrew Simper wrote:
>>
>> On 18 May 2012 04:48, Stewart Pye<stewpye at optusnet.com.au> ?wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Andy,
>>>
>>> I've converted a few 110V synths for 240V but I can't remember if the
>>> MS20 was one of them.
>>>
>>> ?From the circuit it looks like you could just replace the transformer if
>>> you can find a suitable one, and fit it in there. If your closest choice is
>>> 18V or 15V secondaries I'd go with the 15V one, as the unregulated DC is
>>> marked as 18V on the schematic. The power dissipation across the regulator
>>> may be too high if you use 18V secondaries.
>>>
>>> Something like this would be suitable:
>>> http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=M5015
>>>
>>> If dropout voltage is a problem you could then replace the regulators
>>> with low dropout types such as the LM2940-15.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Stewart.
>>
>>
>> Hi ?Stewart,
>>
>> Thanks loads for going to the trouble to let me know a transformer to
>> use! Do you happen to live in Perth as well? You posted a link to
>> Altronics which is my local supplier.
>>
>> Are there any problems with having a 15V secondary instead of an 18V
>> one? Will that still give 15V at the regulator's output?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andy
>> --
>> cytomic - sound music software
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/18/2012 12:44 AM, Andrew Simper wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I want to buy an MS-20 rev2, but the only ones I can find all have
>>>> Japanese 100V power supplies. I have a friends 240V MS20 rev2 here and
>>>> there is a transformer and fuse mounted on the chassie and then a
>>>> tripple core wire from the transformer that is soldered directly onto
>>>> the main PCB. Does anyone know if it is simply a matter of changing
>>>> that transformer?
>>>>
>>>> I'm assuming that the rev2 has the same power supply as the rev1:
>>>> http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/images/service/ms20/circ1.gif
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>> --
>>>> cytomic - sound music software
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon May 21 15:03:15 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 09:03:15 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Seeking for black Moog system wood screws..
References: <31055418.40701337553699782.JavaMail.www@wwinf3711>
Message-ID: <E8B74BEAC7C147DA9880DC42BB762A2E@HPLYNE>

You are perfectly right Steve.

After looking further into pictures of the Moog systems
I noticed some modules not screwed and they had
what looks to be empty threaded holes with missing
machine screws.. probably 6-32 in size..
Mistery solved.
Thanks


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Ridley" <spr at spridley.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "Jean-Pierre Desrochers" <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Seeking for black Moog system wood screws..


>> I'm looking for the 'same type of ' black wood screws Moog used for 
>> modules
>> in their modular systems years ago..
>
> Wood screws? It's a long time since I examined one, but I'm sure they used 
> black 6/32 machine
> screws into metal rails to fix the modules.
>
>
> Steve 



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Mon May 21 15:14:15 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 09:14:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <8115C5BC-61EB-4FE3-A6EB-B683F5D4E015@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <468218143.1285626.1337606055955.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

I like shunt references like the LM336 (-2.5, -5 etc)  They are used like
zener diodes so they are applicable for positive or negative references.

The LM4040 is good as well.

If absolute voltage is not a requirement (only stability) a 5.1 zener diode
makes a near-zero tempco reference (5.1 is the "magic" voltage for zener temperature coefficient)

H^) harry

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
To: Neil Johnson <neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com>, David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca>
Cc: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:43:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Negative voltage references


On 20 May 2012, at 14:45, Neil Johnson wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
>> As I said, I'd have used a 79L05 if I'd had one. The chunky 7905
>> isn't doing the job without enough current pulled out of it.
> 
> Well, even the 79L05 has a minimum current requirement.  According to the TI/NS datasheet it's only 1mA, but it's still a requirement to be in spec.

Well, at least that's an improvement on the 5mA or so minimum that the 7905 needs!

1mA pulled from my -5V voltage is a total resistance less than 5K. It's true that currently I'm still well above that, since most of the CV op-amps have 200K input resistors for the offset, and you need a lot of those in series to get 5K. Still, I can always bang a 4K7 or 3K3 across the regulator output.

How do you deal with the minimum current requirement in your 2164 VCAs, David?

Thanks,
Tom

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From daugard at cox.net  Mon May 21 18:12:37 2012
From: daugard at cox.net (Tim Daugard)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 11:12:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] ARM DSO Nano oscilloscope - good enough for fixing
	synths ?
References: <1337594412.653.YahooMailClassic@web161702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F2E054E8D86949F8A727D6078F157DE1@FREDTWO>

> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARM-DSO-Nano-Pocket-Sized-Digital-Oscilloscope-/200470598507?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2eacfa936b#ht_7624wt_906

Amazon has the same scope - same price? and free shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Pocket-Sized-Digital-Oscilloscope-VERSION/dp/B004Y3QHZ6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1337616573&sr=8-2

I ran across these when I was trying to figure out what I was going to do.

Tim Daugard 




From phil.macphail at liivatera.com  Mon May 21 19:45:37 2012
From: phil.macphail at liivatera.com (Phil Macphail)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 18:45:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Negative voltage references
In-Reply-To: <C178F5E3EDC64D1BB377B6DC286E1594@galvanox01>
Message-ID: <CBE036F7.7271%phil.macphail@liivatera.com>



On 21/05/2012 02:50, "David G Dixon" <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:

>> David,
>> 
>> " I would say that this is not worth losing sleep over."
>> 
>> No offence here, but I'd argue on this one. I'd go with the
>> spec. I've been on several projects where the EEs didn't pay
>> attention to things like this and its bitten them. It doesn't
>> look good on their resume when there has been 10000 units
>> shipped and then most the units in manufacturing start
>> failing and the product line is shut down. Turns out it's the
>> original stock of parts has been exhausted and they've
>> ordered the next batch of parts from a different, cheaper
>> vendor. It suprises me that they can get a dozen or so units
>> from China to the states overnight and on the engineers desk
>> when this happens. More than once I've seen this happen.
>> 
>> Even though the parts that you have work, somewhere someone
>> will use a different brand or batch that will not exceed the
>> specs and they're hosed.
>> Also on common parts that are multi-sourced it's not a bad
>> idea to get a number of data sheets and go with the lowest
>> speced one because even though they have the same part number
>> they may have slightly different specs.
>
>I hear you.  However, in this case, I'm not even sure that this is a
>"spec"
>per se.  Nowhere in the datasheet does it say that one must pass at least
>1
>mA through the device.  the only reference to 1 mA is in the voltage
>output
>specs in the table, where the current is specified between 1 and 100 mA.
>It
>doesn't say that the device won't work properly if it is not passing at
>least 1 mA, and there is one plot where the curve is drawn at 0 mA output.
>Why would they bother plotting data at this current if this were not a
>viable current for operating the device?
>
>Also, in my case, I only use 79L05 in "non-critical" situations, where I
>don't really care all that much how close the reference is, or whether
>it's
>constant with temperature, etc.  In critical situations, I would use a
>bandgap reference.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


I agree with Jay here, 3-terminal regulators are easy to use, but this
ease can breed complacency. The 78xx parts are better than most, but there
are two general problems associated with incorrect loading on a regulator -

1. The bandwidth of the regulator increases as the load is reduced, so
there is a chance that the regulator can oscillate. This is more of a
problem with low-dropout regulators which don't have the emitter-follower
structure of the78xx, but they are more sensitive to point 2.

2. The regulator has a huge DC gain to ensure good load regulation, but
the consequence of this is that it can be very difficult to turn-off the
output device when the load is small. For the 78xx devices this means
removing the base drive to a darlington transistor pair. Without drawing
enough current from the transistors the output voltage will rise to 2*Vbe
below the supply. Hopefully the internal resistor feedback network will
provide sufficient load, but this current will have large process
variation, and even bigger temperature sensitivity. Hence the comments
from Neil and Jay. Most of the time things will be fine, but it is simple
to make it fine all of the time,


Phil.




From mr at analogue.org  Tue May 22 21:41:45 2012
From: mr at analogue.org (Mattias Rickardsson)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 21:41:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
Message-ID: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>

MIDI and DIN sync (in its simplest form, with just clock and
start/stop signal) use different pins in the same connector. The
possibility of supporting both MIDI and DIN sync in the same
connectors have crossed my mind often during the years, but I can't
remember seeing any products using it - apart from Dutch
Engineers at work, who seem to have combined MIDI and DIN sync connectors
on a couple of their products:

Their 1-to-4 "Midi Thru Box" can also be used as a DIN sync thru box
(presumably just passively connected),
  http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_thru_box.html
and their "Midi to Sync converter" seems to send DIN sync signals and
MIDI timing signals simultaneously on the same connector (presumably
driven by the same clock pulses, since MIDI timing messages are just
positive pulses with the same frequency as DIN sync, IIRC).
  http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_converter_ms06.html

Are any other products using combined connectors in similar ways?

I don't see any electrical reason why DIN sync OUT wouldn't be
suitable to incorporate in every MIDI OUT and MIDI THRU connector
(provided that the correct DIN sync signals are generated internally
of course). Are there any reasons not to do it?

Combining MIDI IN and DIN sync IN is a bit trickier, especially since
MIDI needs to be galvanically disconnected and since there might be
exotic "tap", "fill in" or "reset and start" DIN sync data on the
incoming MIDI pins, but it should be quite possible as well. :-)

/mr


From magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org  Tue May 22 23:17:55 2012
From: magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org (Magnus Danielson)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 23:17:55 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
In-Reply-To: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FBC0283.6030803@rubidium.dyndns.org>

Hej Mattias!

On 05/22/2012 09:41 PM, Mattias Rickardsson wrote:
> MIDI and DIN sync (in its simplest form, with just clock and
> start/stop signal) use different pins in the same connector.

Interesting thought.

> The possibility of supporting both MIDI and DIN sync in the same
> connectors have crossed my mind often during the years, but I can't
> remember seeing any products using it - apart from Dutch
> Engineers at work, who seem to have combined MIDI and DIN sync connectors
> on a couple of their products:
>
> Their 1-to-4 "Midi Thru Box" can also be used as a DIN sync thru box
> (presumably just passively connected),
>    http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_thru_box.html
> and their "Midi to Sync converter" seems to send DIN sync signals and
> MIDI timing signals simultaneously on the same connector (presumably
> driven by the same clock pulses, since MIDI timing messages are just
> positive pulses with the same frequency as DIN sync, IIRC).
>    http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_converter_ms06.html
>
> Are any other products using combined connectors in similar ways?

I saw a prototype of a new product which had both DIN and MIDI, but on 
separate connectors. To some degree, yes... you can do it, but it is 
just one additional connector, so it doesn't really add that much cost, 
and you don't need to figure these things out. Also, what if you want 
DIN sync and MIDI at the same time to different gear?

> I don't see any electrical reason why DIN sync OUT wouldn't be
> suitable to incorporate in every MIDI OUT and MIDI THRU connector
> (provided that the correct DIN sync signals are generated internally
> of course). Are there any reasons not to do it?

Well, if you have a full DIN cable hooking up to a box using the other 
DIN pins (those boxes does exists), are you sure that the current 
limiting resistors is there so it won't cook the diodes in your MIDI 
receiver?

> Combining MIDI IN and DIN sync IN is a bit trickier, especially since
> MIDI needs to be galvanically disconnected and since there might be
> exotic "tap", "fill in" or "reset and start" DIN sync data on the
> incoming MIDI pins, but it should be quite possible as well. :-)

Hehe, I discussed the isolation of MIDI yesterday actually...

The MIDI-standard tries to avoid grounding loops by attempting to do 
isolational bonding network (IBN) strategy, just as Ethernet tries to do 
it. If you believe it makes you happy, the MIDI standard does the right 
thing.

DIN-sync will however take the other approach (most possibly out of KISS 
and economy), it follows the mesh bonding network strategy... in which 
you just hook grounds together and if you add another link it doesn't 
really hurts because it just ties things a little tighter together.

If you hook things up with full ground, you don't really have to bother 
with the opto-isolator, but if you hook up a normal MIDI source you 
would still appreciate it.

The trouble with the IBN strategy is that you very easily break the 
rules and get a loop, so it has become depreciated. Also, it is harder 
to achieve good EMC performance in IBN. Do get ITU-T K.27 
recommendation, it's available for free download.

Anyway, in the end I lean towards saying that sure, you could try it, 
but the gain is too little most of the time, so why bother. We have 
bigger game to kill.

PS. Check your Google window now on the 23rd of May. google.ru works 
right now for instance.

Cheers,
Magnus


From 21pointy at tpg.com.au  Wed May 23 00:12:11 2012
From: 21pointy at tpg.com.au (Adam Inglis)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 08:12:11 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
In-Reply-To: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <72D15170-A304-4A7A-8643-66992AA961F6@tpg.com.au>


MIDI and DIN sync are combined in this set-up that can drive a  
modified TB303
http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/sync-lead/

Adam

On 23/05/2012, at 5:41 AM, Mattias Rickardsson wrote:

> MIDI and DIN sync (in its simplest form, with just clock and
> start/stop signal) use different pins in the same connector. The
> possibility of supporting both MIDI and DIN sync in the same
> connectors have crossed my mind often during the years, but I can't
> remember seeing any products using it - apart from Dutch
> Engineers at work, who seem to have combined MIDI and DIN sync connectors
> on a couple of their products:
>
> Their 1-to-4 "Midi Thru Box" can also be used as a DIN sync thru box
> (presumably just passively connected),
>  http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_thru_box.html
> and their "Midi to Sync converter" seems to send DIN sync signals and
> MIDI timing signals simultaneously on the same connector (presumably
> driven by the same clock pulses, since MIDI timing messages are just
> positive pulses with the same frequency as DIN sync, IIRC).
>  http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_converter_ms06.html
>
> Are any other products using combined connectors in similar ways?
>
> I don't see any electrical reason why DIN sync OUT wouldn't be
> suitable to incorporate in every MIDI OUT and MIDI THRU connector
> (provided that the correct DIN sync signals are generated internally
> of course). Are there any reasons not to do it?
>
> Combining MIDI IN and DIN sync IN is a bit trickier, especially since
> MIDI needs to be galvanically disconnected and since there might be
> exotic "tap", "fill in" or "reset and start" DIN sync data on the
> incoming MIDI pins, but it should be quite possible as well. :-)
>
> /mr
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From antoniotuzzi at gmail.com  Wed May 23 00:26:12 2012
From: antoniotuzzi at gmail.com (Antonio Tuzzi)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 00:26:12 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
In-Reply-To: <72D15170-A304-4A7A-8643-66992AA961F6@tpg.com.au>
References: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<72D15170-A304-4A7A-8643-66992AA961F6@tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <E54362A4-E863-4101-A828-B428EF7D82FC@gmail.com>

i have a cr8000 with midi and din sync
in the same socket

Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 23/mag/2012, alle ore 00:12, Adam Inglis <21pointy at tpg.com.au> ha scritto:

> 
> MIDI and DIN sync are combined in this set-up that can drive a modified TB303
> http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/sync-lead/
> 
> Adam
> 
> On 23/05/2012, at 5:41 AM, Mattias Rickardsson wrote:
> 
>> MIDI and DIN sync (in its simplest form, with just clock and
>> start/stop signal) use different pins in the same connector. The
>> possibility of supporting both MIDI and DIN sync in the same
>> connectors have crossed my mind often during the years, but I can't
>> remember seeing any products using it - apart from Dutch
>> Engineers at work, who seem to have combined MIDI and DIN sync connectors
>> on a couple of their products:
>> 
>> Their 1-to-4 "Midi Thru Box" can also be used as a DIN sync thru box
>> (presumably just passively connected),
>> http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_thru_box.html
>> and their "Midi to Sync converter" seems to send DIN sync signals and
>> MIDI timing signals simultaneously on the same connector (presumably
>> driven by the same clock pulses, since MIDI timing messages are just
>> positive pulses with the same frequency as DIN sync, IIRC).
>> http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_converter_ms06.html
>> 
>> Are any other products using combined connectors in similar ways?
>> 
>> I don't see any electrical reason why DIN sync OUT wouldn't be
>> suitable to incorporate in every MIDI OUT and MIDI THRU connector
>> (provided that the correct DIN sync signals are generated internally
>> of course). Are there any reasons not to do it?
>> 
>> Combining MIDI IN and DIN sync IN is a bit trickier, especially since
>> MIDI needs to be galvanically disconnected and since there might be
>> exotic "tap", "fill in" or "reset and start" DIN sync data on the
>> incoming MIDI pins, but it should be quite possible as well. :-)
>> 
>> /mr
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jgrisso at det3.net  Wed May 23 00:40:18 2012
From: jgrisso at det3.net (Joe Grisso)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 16:40:18 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
In-Reply-To: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACwKyhCJBEfvM_T7Bqe4dvcoY6gxMN2u5RNgWWcATvttxcGw1Q@mail.gmail.com>

I considered strongly in combining this for the sequencer I'm building
right now, but the big problem is that while 99% of DIN products only
have clock and start/stop, there are a few out there that have tap,
fill, continue, etc. on pins 4 and 5 (which are dedicated to MIDI).
That seems a bit dangerous to me.

Best,

-- 
Joe Grisso
Detachment 3, Ltd.

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Mattias Rickardsson <mr at analogue.org> wrote:
> MIDI and DIN sync (in its simplest form, with just clock and
> start/stop signal) use different pins in the same connector. The
> possibility of supporting both MIDI and DIN sync in the same
> connectors have crossed my mind often during the years, but I can't
> remember seeing any products using it - apart from Dutch
> Engineers at work, who seem to have combined MIDI and DIN sync connectors
> on a couple of their products:
>
> Their 1-to-4 "Midi Thru Box" can also be used as a DIN sync thru box
> (presumably just passively connected),
> ?http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_thru_box.html
> and their "Midi to Sync converter" seems to send DIN sync signals and
> MIDI timing signals simultaneously on the same connector (presumably
> driven by the same clock pulses, since MIDI timing messages are just
> positive pulses with the same frequency as DIN sync, IIRC).
> ?http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_converter_ms06.html
>
> Are any other products using combined connectors in similar ways?
>
> I don't see any electrical reason why DIN sync OUT wouldn't be
> suitable to incorporate in every MIDI OUT and MIDI THRU connector
> (provided that the correct DIN sync signals are generated internally
> of course). Are there any reasons not to do it?
>
> Combining MIDI IN and DIN sync IN is a bit trickier, especially since
> MIDI needs to be galvanically disconnected and since there might be
> exotic "tap", "fill in" or "reset and start" DIN sync data on the
> incoming MIDI pins, but it should be quite possible as well. :-)
>
> /mr
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed May 23 03:17:13 2012
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 18:17:13 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
Message-ID: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>

Well, its May 23rd in Europe.  Check out http://google.be or
http://google.co.uk...  I expect we'll get it on google.com come midnight.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
 - K6AET            -  Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference? 
 --------------------         -- Neal Stephenson,  Snow Crash


From matt at smiffytech.com  Wed May 23 03:26:22 2012
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 10:56:22 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Tom Arnold at 23/05/12 10:47...
> Well, its May 23rd in Europe.  Check out http://google.be or
> http://google.co.uk...  I expect we'll get it on google.com come midnight.

Aww, I thought it was going to be interactive!


-- 
Matthew Smith

Business: http://www.smiffytech.com
Blog:     http://www.smiffysplace.com
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Flickr:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/msmiffy
Twitter:  http://twitter.com/smiffy

ABN 16 391 203 815


From xyzzy at sysabend.org  Wed May 23 03:34:54 2012
From: xyzzy at sysabend.org (Tom Arnold)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 18:34:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>
	<4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <20120523013454.GH6181@moo.sysabend.org>

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:56:22AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote:
> Quoth Tom Arnold at 23/05/12 10:47...
> >Well, its May 23rd in Europe.  Check out http://google.be or
> >http://google.co.uk...  I expect we'll get it on google.com come midnight.
> 
> Aww, I thought it was going to be interactive!

Using IE?

Works in Safari and Chrome.  Haven't tried Firefox.  IE didn't work.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
 - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
 - SynthGeek        -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
 - K6AET            -  Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference? 
 --------------------         -- Neal Stephenson,  Snow Crash


From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Wed May 23 03:58:04 2012
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (KA4HJH)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 21:58:04 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <20120523013454.GH6181@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>
	<4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com> <20120523013454.GH6181@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <p06240809cbe1f38dfd38@[192.168.1.70]>

>On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:56:22AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote:
>> Quoth Tom Arnold at 23/05/12 10:47...
>> >Well, its May 23rd in Europe.  Check out http://google.be or
>> >http://google.co.uk...  I expect we'll get it on google.com come midnight.
>>
>> Aww, I thought it was going to be interactive!
>
>Using IE?
>
>Works in Safari and Chrome.  Haven't tried Firefox.  IE didn't work.

Works in Safari but not iCab.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From jays at aracnet.com  Wed May 23 04:31:51 2012
From: jays at aracnet.com (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 19:31:51 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <p06240809cbe1f38dfd38@[192.168.1.70]>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com>
	<20120523013454.GH6181@moo.sysabend.org>
	<p06240809cbe1f38dfd38@[192.168.1.70]>
Message-ID: <000b01cd388c$35d91b10$a18b5130$@com>

Worked for me with IE9 under Windows 7 pro.

Don't forget to use the tape recorder. It works too.

Jay S.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of KA4HJH
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:58 PM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] google.be today

>On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:56:22AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote:
>> Quoth Tom Arnold at 23/05/12 10:47...
>> >Well, its May 23rd in Europe.  Check out http://google.be or
>> >http://google.co.uk...  I expect we'll get it on google.com come
midnight.
>>
>> Aww, I thought it was going to be interactive!
>
>Using IE?
>
>Works in Safari and Chrome.  Haven't tried Firefox.  IE didn't work.

Works in Safari but not iCab.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From stewpye at optusnet.com.au  Wed May 23 04:33:49 2012
From: stewpye at optusnet.com.au (stew)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:33:49 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
Message-ID: <201205230233.q4N2XnBW021502@mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Works in Firefox.



> Tom Arnold <xyzzy at sysabend.org> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:56:22AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote:
> > Quoth Tom Arnold at 23/05/12 10:47...
> > >Well, its May 23rd in Europe.  Check out http://google.be or
> > >http://google.co.uk...  I expect we'll get it on google.com come 
> midnight.
> > 
> > Aww, I thought it was going to be interactive!
> 
> Using IE?
> 
> Works in Safari and Chrome.  Haven't tried Firefox.  IE didn't work.
> 
> -- 
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  - Tom Arnold       -  Free Synth DIY webspace http://www.sdiy.org 
>  - SynthGeek        -  "...is it a virus, a drug, or a religion?"
>  - K6AET            -  Juanita Shrugs. "What's the difference? 
>  --------------------         -- Neal Stephenson,  Snow Crash
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From elby_designs at ozemail.com.au  Wed May 23 04:47:44 2012
From: elby_designs at ozemail.com.au (Elby Designs)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:47:44 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <p06240809cbe1f38dfd38@[192.168.1.70]>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com>
	<20120523013454.GH6181@moo.sysabend.org>
	<p06240809cbe1f38dfd38@[192.168.1.70]>
Message-ID: <000901cd388e$6e661df0$4b3259d0$@com.au>

Doesn't work (for me) in IE8. Tried Google Chrome and got the buttons/keys
working but no sound. Upgraded to IE9 and it all works


Best Regards
Laurie Biddulph
Mobile: 0400 257 645
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Web: www.elby-designs.com

Elby Designs
9 Follan Close
Kariong
NSW 2250
Australia

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of KA4HJH
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:58 AM
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [sdiy] google.be today

>On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:56:22AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote:
>> Quoth Tom Arnold at 23/05/12 10:47...
>> >Well, its May 23rd in Europe.  Check out http://google.be or 
>> >http://google.co.uk...  I expect we'll get it on google.com come
midnight.
>>
>> Aww, I thought it was going to be interactive!
>
>Using IE?
>
>Works in Safari and Chrome.  Haven't tried Firefox.  IE didn't work.

Works in Safari but not iCab.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From 21pointy at tpg.com.au  Wed May 23 05:34:51 2012
From: 21pointy at tpg.com.au (Adam Inglis)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:34:51 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
In-Reply-To: <CACwKyhCJBEfvM_T7Bqe4dvcoY6gxMN2u5RNgWWcATvttxcGw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACwKyhCJBEfvM_T7Bqe4dvcoY6gxMN2u5RNgWWcATvttxcGw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2EBC4671-A2FF-4F7C-96CA-637D115F6E07@tpg.com.au>


On 23/05/2012, at 8:40 AM, Joe Grisso wrote:

> I considered strongly in combining this for the sequencer I'm building
> right now, but the big problem is that while 99% of DIN products only
> have clock and start/stop, there are a few out there that have tap,
> fill, continue, etc. on pins 4 and 5 (which are dedicated to MIDI).
> That seems a bit dangerous to me.


Those machines, such as the TB303, TR606, TR808, etc, when acting as  
receivers of DIN sync, probably wouldn't be affected by MIDI signals  
arriving at their "Tap" or "Fill" pins, would they?

Adam







> Best,
>
> -- 
> Joe Grisso
> Detachment 3, Ltd.
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Mattias Rickardsson  
> <mr at analogue.org> wrote:
>> MIDI and DIN sync (in its simplest form, with just clock and
>> start/stop signal) use different pins in the same connector. The
>> possibility of supporting both MIDI and DIN sync in the same
>> connectors have crossed my mind often during the years, but I can't
>> remember seeing any products using it - apart from Dutch
>> Engineers at work, who seem to have combined MIDI and DIN sync  
>> connectors
>> on a couple of their products:
>>
>> Their 1-to-4 "Midi Thru Box" can also be used as a DIN sync thru box
>> (presumably just passively connected),
>>  http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_thru_box.html
>> and their "Midi to Sync converter" seems to send DIN sync signals and
>> MIDI timing signals simultaneously on the same connector (presumably
>> driven by the same clock pulses, since MIDI timing messages are just
>> positive pulses with the same frequency as DIN sync, IIRC).
>>  http://www.engineersatwork.nl/dtronics/pages/midi_sync_converter_ms06.html
>>
>> Are any other products using combined connectors in similar ways?
>>
>> I don't see any electrical reason why DIN sync OUT wouldn't be
>> suitable to incorporate in every MIDI OUT and MIDI THRU connector
>> (provided that the correct DIN sync signals are generated internally
>> of course). Are there any reasons not to do it?
>>
>> Combining MIDI IN and DIN sync IN is a bit trickier, especially since
>> MIDI needs to be galvanically disconnected and since there might be
>> exotic "tap", "fill in" or "reset and start" DIN sync data on the
>> incoming MIDI pins, but it should be quite possible as well. :-)
>>
>> /mr
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From nitro2k01 at gmail.com  Wed May 23 06:55:54 2012
From: nitro2k01 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?T3ZlIFJpZMOp?=)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 06:55:54 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cassette tape recorders for grabs i the UK
Message-ID: <CABacs=C2TBVdue9uvAsXToFirRG+YtXQuyhYcDqcNcHMcbfpdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Spotted on the EEVBlog forums. (Forum associated with an electronics
video blog.)

<http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/does-anyone-collect-vintage-cassette-tape-recorders-i-have-three-*uk*/msg0/>

The models are:

1/ BASF 9201
2/ Grundig C410 ("Microfon")
3/ Hanimex (unknown model/unmarked)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22008695 at N03/sets/72157629838325426/

Don't know if this kind of stuff is interesting to anyone. Perhaps if
someone here is a collector.

-- 
/Ove

Blog: <http://blog.gg8.se/>

"Here is Evergreen City. Evergreen? is the color of green forever."


From matt at smiffytech.com  Wed May 23 09:01:55 2012
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:31:55 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <000901cd388e$6e661df0$4b3259d0$@com.au>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com>	<20120523013454.GH6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<p06240809cbe1f38dfd38@[192.168.1.70]>
	<000901cd388e$6e661df0$4b3259d0$@com.au>
Message-ID: <4FBC8B63.7060503@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Elby Designs at 23/05/12 12:17...
> Doesn't work (for me) in IE8. Tried Google Chrome and got the buttons/keys
> working but no sound. Upgraded to IE9 and it all works

FF & Chrome under Linux, click anywhere on the doodle and it goes 
straight to the Bob Moog search.  Don't really think it's worth firing 
up and upgrading my Windows VM just for that ;-)

Anyone know how it's done? I assumed it was Flash, but doesn't appear to be.

-- 
Matthew Smith

Business: http://www.smiffytech.com
Blog:     http://www.smiffysplace.com
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Flickr:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/msmiffy
Twitter:  http://twitter.com/smiffy

ABN 16 391 203 815


From steve.paperjam at gmail.com  Wed May 23 09:27:24 2012
From: steve.paperjam at gmail.com (Steve Woodward)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 08:27:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <4FBC8B63.7060503@smiffytech.com>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com>	<20120523013454.GH6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<p06240809cbe1f38dfd38@[192.168.1.70]>
	<000901cd388e$6e661df0$4b3259d0$@com.au>
	<4FBC8B63.7060503@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <94C68E74-F5D9-4519-93E0-B48B03DEAD94@gmail.com>

Chrome 19 on Ubuntu working ok yesterday

Is HTML5

cheeeeers

On 23 May 2012, at 08:01, Matthew Smith wrote:

> Quoth Elby Designs at 23/05/12 12:17...
>> Doesn't work (for me) in IE8. Tried Google Chrome and got the buttons/keys
>> working but no sound. Upgraded to IE9 and it all works
> 
> FF & Chrome under Linux, click anywhere on the doodle and it goes straight to the Bob Moog search.  Don't really think it's worth firing up and upgrading my Windows VM just for that ;-)
> 
> Anyone know how it's done? I assumed it was Flash, but doesn't appear to be.
> 
> -- 
> Matthew Smith
> 
> Business: http://www.smiffytech.com
> Blog:     http://www.smiffysplace.com
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
> Flickr:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/msmiffy
> Twitter:  http://twitter.com/smiffy
> 
> ABN 16 391 203 815
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From eric at ericframpton.com  Wed May 23 09:31:08 2012
From: eric at ericframpton.com (Eric Frampton)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 03:31:08 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <4FBC8B63.7060503@smiffytech.com>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com>	<20120523013454.GH6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<p06240809cbe1f38dfd38@[192.168.1.70]>
	<000901cd388e$6e661df0$4b3259d0$@com.au>
	<4FBC8B63.7060503@smiffytech.com>
Message-ID: <86A6E2FD-B39E-4F84-857F-AA7A4B3ECB6E@ericframpton.com>

Maybe this'll shed some light:

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/tribute-to-bob-moog-sonic-doodler.html

e

On May 23, 2012, at 3:01 AM, Matthew Smith wrote:

> Anyone know how it's done? I assumed it was Flash, but doesn't appear to be.



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 23 12:49:33 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 11:49:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <86A6E2FD-B39E-4F84-857F-AA7A4B3ECB6E@ericframpton.com>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<4FBC3CBE.3@smiffytech.com>	<20120523013454.GH6181@moo.sysabend.org>	<p06240809cbe1f38dfd38@[192.168.1.70]>
	<000901cd388e$6e661df0$4b3259d0$@com.au>
	<4FBC8B63.7060503@smiffytech.com>
	<86A6E2FD-B39E-4F84-857F-AA7A4B3ECB6E@ericframpton.com>
Message-ID: <660FA368-80FE-4E31-B9A1-29AC8B5F223B@electricdruid.net>

What I want to know is why the mixer is to the left of the oscillators. The logical left-to-right signal path was one of the reasons the original was successful!

I expect the answer is "Because it looked most like a 'G'", which doesn't really work for me as justification!

T.

On 23 May 2012, at 08:31, Eric Frampton wrote:

> Maybe this'll shed some light:
> 
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/tribute-to-bob-moog-sonic-doodler.html
> 
> e
> 
> On May 23, 2012, at 3:01 AM, Matthew Smith wrote:
> 
>> Anyone know how it's done? I assumed it was Flash, but doesn't appear to be.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Wed May 23 13:40:52 2012
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:40:52 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
In-Reply-To: <E54362A4-E863-4101-A828-B428EF7D82FC@gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>	<72D15170-A304-4A7A-8643-66992AA961F6@tpg.com.au>
	<E54362A4-E863-4101-A828-B428EF7D82FC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FBCCCC4.4050802@mnet-online.de>

Am 23.05.2012 00:26, schrieb Antonio Tuzzi:
> i have a cr8000 with midi and din sync
> in the same socket

I have built a shufflebox 
(http://www.frequencyresponse.ch/?p=shufflebox) into my TR-808 and I am 
using the socket for both, but I extended the switch which selects 
between DIN and MIDI Master on the shufflebox to switch also the wires 
between DIN and MIDI function.

Florian

-- 
http://fa.utfs.org/


From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Wed May 23 13:45:30 2012
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:45:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
In-Reply-To: <CACwKyhCJBEfvM_T7Bqe4dvcoY6gxMN2u5RNgWWcATvttxcGw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACwKyhCJBEfvM_T7Bqe4dvcoY6gxMN2u5RNgWWcATvttxcGw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FBCCDDA.9020303@mnet-online.de>

Am 23.05.2012 00:40, schrieb Joe Grisso:
> fill, continue, etc. on pins 4 and 5 (which are dedicated to MIDI).
> That seems a bit dangerous to me.

I don't think that is is dangerous. Both are systems basically low 
current 5V connections. Neither DIN-sync signals would break the 
optocoupler, nor MIDI would kill the transistor buffers at the input.

Also you always sould place a kind of selection, which of both inputs is 
selected. So there should be no error.
Only if the socket is used as output, it might be recommend to add a 
selecting switch.

Florian

-- 
http://fa.utfs.org/


From jgrisso at det3.net  Wed May 23 20:47:53 2012
From: jgrisso at det3.net (Joe Grisso)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:47:53 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
In-Reply-To: <4FBCCDDA.9020303@mnet-online.de>
References: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACwKyhCJBEfvM_T7Bqe4dvcoY6gxMN2u5RNgWWcATvttxcGw1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FBCCDDA.9020303@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <CACwKyhDcieQ6Yc8aDO-ewt9VfUkzfKxJEHd-mn0Rf=1dmz91nA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Florian Anwander
<fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
> Am 23.05.2012 00:40, schrieb Joe Grisso:
>
>> fill, continue, etc. on pins 4 and 5 (which are dedicated to MIDI).
>> That seems a bit dangerous to me.
>
> I don't think that is is dangerous. Both are systems basically low current
> 5V connections. Neither DIN-sync signals would break the optocoupler, nor
> MIDI would kill the transistor buffers at the input.

>From a circuit damage perspective, no. There isn't any danger.
However, from a functionality and user/customer operation perspective
(or lack thereof), it could create confusion and frustration on their
part when product X will work with their setup but product Y won't.
It's easy to troubleshoot, but as Magnus said earlier, the added pair
of connectors add negligible cost to the overall device while removing
this incompatibility in the boundary cases.

> Also you always sould place a kind of selection, which of both inputs is
> selected. So there should be no error.

Definitely. However, IMHO this would only present a clear advantage in
a space-constrained system. A physical switch is more expensive than
the corresponding pair of DIN jacks, and software control of the same
type of active switching system is more effort than just splitting the
functionality out into a separate pair of jacks. If you want the
challenge, go for it, but it seems that practicality of this kind of
implementation would only fit a project/product with a very small form
factor.

-- 
Joe Grisso
Detachment 3, Ltd.


From veronica at merryfield.ca  Wed May 23 21:02:24 2012
From: veronica at merryfield.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:02:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI & DIN Sync in the same connector?
In-Reply-To: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP92RBWWV9grS1V7xyaDOfB=h_cSAfxjbuffKitb=hXKLTD5UQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A2B84C90-F636-49C0-97E5-06F1A014E05B@merryfield.ca>


On 2012-05-22, at 12:41 PM, Mattias Rickardsson wrote:

> Are any other products using combined connectors in similar ways?\

There is one company I have come across that is using the two 'spare' pins on the DIN connector for power supply. They make MIDI hubs, combiners and so on and supply power down the two unused pins. I have no idea how many products are out there that might use it. I have been asked a few times to design for this but I usually talk them out of it. 



From aankrom at bluemarble.net  Thu May 24 01:09:47 2012
From: aankrom at bluemarble.net (aankrom)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 19:09:47 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>
Message-ID: <8f9c1e2d54379b934ad71e7de5588011@bluemarble.net>

I just discovered this a minute ago. I wonder what I can do to play it 
another day? Is there a page somewhere I don't know about?

AA

On Tue, 22 May 2012 18:17:13 -0700, Tom Arnold wrote:
> Well, its May 23rd in Europe.  Check out http://google.be or
> http://google.co.uk...  I expect we'll get it on google.com come 
> midnight.



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu May 24 03:15:34 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 21:15:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <8f9c1e2d54379b934ad71e7de5588011@bluemarble.net>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>
	<8f9c1e2d54379b934ad71e7de5588011@bluemarble.net>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP212E191AC73276081C3BADAC8000@phx.gbl>

I wonder if at midnight it turns into a puff of eternal filter sweep....

Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2012, at 7:09 PM, aankrom <aankrom at bluemarble.net> wrote:

> I just discovered this a minute ago. I wonder what I can do to play it another day? Is there a page somewhere I don't know about?
> 
> AA
> 
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 18:17:13 -0700, Tom Arnold wrote:
>> Well, its May 23rd in Europe.  Check out http://google.be or
>> http://google.co.uk...  I expect we'll get it on google.com come midnight.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Thu May 24 10:16:18 2012
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 10:16:18 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] google.be today
In-Reply-To: <8f9c1e2d54379b934ad71e7de5588011@bluemarble.net>
References: <20120523011712.GG6181@moo.sysabend.org>
	<8f9c1e2d54379b934ad71e7de5588011@bluemarble.net>
Message-ID: <4FBDEE52.1080601@mnet-online.de>

On 24.05.12 01:09 , aankrom wrote:
> I just discovered this a minute ago. I wonder what I can do to play it
> another day? Is there a page somewhere I don't know about?
http://www.google.com/doodles/robert-moogs-78th-birthday


From goaqihai at yahoo.co.uk  Thu May 24 16:09:26 2012
From: goaqihai at yahoo.co.uk (ganesha)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 15:09:26 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] newbie question: Adding LED to JH Sample & hold schematic
In-Reply-To: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1337868566.43029.YahooMailNeo@web171501.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I'm building the JH Synthi Sample & Hold.
http://www.jhaible.de/tonline_stuff/jh_sc_shg.gif
Everything works fine but I'd like to add a LED to have some visual feedback of the clock rate if the internal clock is used (timepot on the left), but also if an external clock is used (in the schematic on the right "from osc 3 pulse").
So I'm guessing the LED should be connected somewhere in the path going to the amp bias input of the OTA at the top of the schematic.
But what is the correct way to add the LED? I want to be sure the circuit keeps working and that the LED doesn't get too much current.

Thanks!



From functionofform at gmail.com  Fri May 25 17:00:44 2012
From: functionofform at gmail.com (Elain Klopke)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:00:44 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems
Message-ID: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

I built the simple op-amp in the non-inverting amplifier setup shown
at the bottom of this page:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_5/17.html

I used 2N3906s for the PNP transistors and 2N3904s for the NPNs and
put a 10Kohm reistor in the feedback loop and a 1Kohm resistor to
ground from the inverting input. In theory that should have produced a
gain of 11. However, when I adjust the pot so that one volt is going
into the non-inverting input of the circuit, I get 1.04 volts at the
output. I measured between the wiper of the pot and the ground
connection and between the output and ground. I can't quite figure it
out.

-Ian Smith


From benalog77 at gmail.com  Fri May 25 17:30:07 2012
From: benalog77 at gmail.com (Benalog Electrotech)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 23:30:07 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems
In-Reply-To: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58F63C56-1E99-4ECD-84D7-46139EA7955F@gmail.com>

Reduce the gain. Any input voltage below 1 diode drop Q3 plus the saturation EC voltage Q6 (~1v)is going to be non-ideal in this circuit.

Pick a lower gain that will allow you to input more than 2v without going above an expected output 12v.

On 25/05/2012, at 11:00 PM, Elain Klopke <functionofform at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> I built the simple op-amp in the non-inverting amplifier setup shown
> at the bottom of this page:
> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_5/17.html
> 
> I used 2N3906s for the PNP transistors and 2N3904s for the NPNs and
> put a 10Kohm reistor in the feedback loop and a 1Kohm resistor to
> ground from the inverting input. In theory that should have produced a
> gain of 11. However, when I adjust the pot so that one volt is going
> into the non-inverting input of the circuit, I get 1.04 volts at the
> output. I measured between the wiper of the pot and the ground
> connection and between the output and ground. I can't quite figure it
> out.
> 
> -Ian Smith
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From Alan.Needham at centrica.com  Fri May 25 18:18:13 2012
From: Alan.Needham at centrica.com (Needham, Alan)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 17:18:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems
In-Reply-To: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7481C6264DDFF94AB1A0A96930BED3D80436FA14@WC000043A.uk.centricaplc.com>

If I understand you correctly, you are measuring from the negative
supply rail (emitters of Q5 and Q6)?
If this is the case, I think that is your problem.
Try using the centre tap of the two 6v batteries instead. As long as
your input is as big as 1v WRT the supply centre tapping your output
will hit a power rail so reduce it to 0.2v - the output should then be
about 2.2v WRT the supply centre tap.

That 'earth' symbol is misleading.

-----Original Message-----
From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl
[mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of Elain Klopke
Sent: 25 May 2012 16:01
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems

Hey all,

I built the simple op-amp in the non-inverting amplifier setup shown
at the bottom of this page:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_5/17.html

I used 2N3906s for the PNP transistors and 2N3904s for the NPNs and
put a 10Kohm reistor in the feedback loop and a 1Kohm resistor to
ground from the inverting input. In theory that should have produced a
gain of 11. However, when I adjust the pot so that one volt is going
into the non-inverting input of the circuit, I get 1.04 volts at the
output. I measured between the wiper of the pot and the ground
connection and between the output and ground. I can't quite figure it
out.

-Ian Smith
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri May 25 18:58:38 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 12:58:38 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
Message-ID: <31873.1337965118@oricom.ca>


Hi list,

I've just finished my fifth dotcom type module..
It's a Moog 921B VCO clone made of
a modified version of the famous  MOTM300 UltraVCO.
This VCO is so stable.. it was the one I picked up as a choice
for my 12 VCO modules.
All the frontend circuitry has been modified to 'merge'
easily with the front panel pot, rotary switch & jacks.
For copyright reason some of the project files & schematics
are not shown. 
I've built 12 of this module for a future 6 voices guitar interface project.
All the available files and specs are located here:

http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/

Feel free to ask any questions.
This project took me around 2 years to finalize.

Thanks for watching.
J-Pierre


 


From harrybissell at wowway.com  Fri May 25 19:47:41 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:47:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <31873.1337965118@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <1029903322.1380034.1337968061616.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

and can you tell us of the guitar interface project ???   :^)

H^) harry


----- Original Message -----
From: Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
To: Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Sent: Fri, 25 May 2012 12:58:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...


Hi list,

I've just finished my fifth dotcom type module..
It's a Moog 921B VCO clone made of
a modified version of the famous  MOTM300 UltraVCO.
This VCO is so stable.. it was the one I picked up as a choice
for my 12 VCO modules.
All the frontend circuitry has been modified to 'merge'
easily with the front panel pot, rotary switch & jacks.
For copyright reason some of the project files & schematics
are not shown. 
I've built 12 of this module for a future 6 voices guitar interface project.
All the available files and specs are located here:

http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/

Feel free to ask any questions.
This project took me around 2 years to finalize.

Thanks for watching.
J-Pierre


 
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Fri May 25 20:01:05 2012
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 12:01:05 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <31873.1337965118@oricom.ca>
References: <31873.1337965118@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20120525120012.022eebb8@mail.comcast.net>

At 10:58 AM 5/25/2012, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

>This VCO is so stable..

Could you be more specific? How many ppm/K ?

Thanks!

Ian



From jays at aracnet.com  Fri May 25 20:11:06 2012
From: jays at aracnet.com (jays at aracnet.com)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 11:11:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Equipment Racks
In-Reply-To: <1029903322.1380034.1337968061616.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
References: <1029903322.1380034.1337968061616.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <c98331358763137537cf7ac8ee19bd62@mail.spiritone.com>

All,

I'm looking at getting some 16U equipment racks for my Frac synth. I
can get a Raxxess 16U Economy unit for about $100 from zzounds and a 16U
Middle Atlantic equivalent one for ~$150.

Anyone have any pros/cons for either one?

Thanks much.
Jay S.



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri May 25 20:11:34 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:11:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
Message-ID: <39973.1337969494@oricom.ca>


Well it is at the very start so far but I have some ideas:

Solid guitar body (with rear hollowed fopr mechanic & electronics)
with original neck installed with 6 x .014 gauge strings not tuned
but bent enough to stop on a bridge on body then curve inside
and stretched with use of small ending springs.

One string description:

String notes reading:
Each neck frets will be cut out to 6 parts
and the metal contact between the fret section and the string will
be read as a note played. A design allready used in the 70's Guitorgan controller.

Reading String picking and bendings:
Each of the string spring's end is glueded to the body and stuck to a piezo element
to read string picking strokes while the other spring end stretches with string bending on the neck
fingerboard. The shaft of a small slide potentiometer is attached
on the spring moving side reading the bending.

All the analog readings to a PIC and MIDI'ed output.
These are some starting ideas for this project.
J-Pierre

 On Fri 25/05/12 14:47 , Harry Bissell harrybissell at wowway.com sent:
> and can you tell us of the guitar interface project ???   :^)
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jean-Pierre Desrochers  ricom.ca>To: S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nlSent: Fri, 25 May 2012 12:58:38 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
> 
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I've just finished my fifth dotcom type module..
> It's a Moog 921B VCO clone made of
> a modified version of the famous  MOTM300 UltraVCO.
> This VCO is so stable.. it was the one I picked up as a choice
> for my 12 VCO modules.
> All the frontend circuitry has been modified to 'merge'
> easily with the front panel pot, rotary switch & jacks.
> For copyright reason some of the project files & schematics
> are not shown. 
> I've built 12 of this module for a future 6 voices guitar interface
> project.All the available files and specs are located here:
> 
> http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/
> 
> Feel free to ask any questions.
> This project took me around 2 years to finalize.
> 
> Thanks for watching.
> J-Pierre
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nlhttp://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> -- 
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
> 
> 
> 


From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri May 25 20:24:11 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 19:24:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems
In-Reply-To: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AD3E348-E946-4A64-A4A2-04668A75E507@electricdruid.net>

Could it be feedback resistors the wrong way around?

That'd give you a gain of 1+1/10, which is fairly close to what you're seeing, if I understood what you've done.

Tom




On 25 May 2012, at 16:00, Elain Klopke wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> I built the simple op-amp in the non-inverting amplifier setup shown
> at the bottom of this page:
> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_5/17.html
> 
> I used 2N3906s for the PNP transistors and 2N3904s for the NPNs and
> put a 10Kohm reistor in the feedback loop and a 1Kohm resistor to
> ground from the inverting input. In theory that should have produced a
> gain of 11. However, when I adjust the pot so that one volt is going
> into the non-inverting input of the circuit, I get 1.04 volts at the
> output. I measured between the wiper of the pot and the ground
> connection and between the output and ground. I can't quite figure it
> out.
> 
> -Ian Smith
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri May 25 20:24:30 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:24:30 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
Message-ID: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>

> Could you be more specific? How many ppm/K ?
As stable as the MOTM-300 itself.
See modules specs:
http://www.synthtech.com/motm300.html


 On Fri 25/05/12 15:01 , Ian Fritz ijfritz at comcast.net sent:
> At 10:58 AM 5/25/2012, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> 
> >This VCO is so stable..
> 
> Could you be more specific? How many ppm/K ?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 


From veronica at merryfield.ca  Fri May 25 20:27:27 2012
From: veronica at merryfield.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 11:27:27 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <39973.1337969494@oricom.ca>
References: <39973.1337969494@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <AC79463C-25EF-417F-B1A4-74F026271B35@merryfield.ca>


On 2012-05-25, at 11:11 AM, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

> String notes reading:
> Each neck frets will be cut out to 6 parts
> ...
> Reading String picking and bendings:

What happens when a string is bent and crosses a fret segment?




From harrybissell at wowway.com  Fri May 25 20:28:52 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:28:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <39973.1337969494@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <640130163.1380635.1337970532649.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

Sounds interesting...

are you aware that some Guitorgan models had the frets cut at a 45 degree angle relative
to the strings, so you could bend across the cut smoothly ?

I've considered this (played with some crude prototypes I made). For those who might be new to the
wired frets idea... the trouble is when you fret a string you make contact with two frets, the one nearer the
bridge and the one nearer the nut. Play a Barre chord and you short multiple frets. 

There have been maybe twenty patents of ways to try and get around the problem. I tried embedding a plate in the middle of the fretboard (well, six plates) for each fret. The idea was you would simultaneously fret the string and
contact the plate. You needed hands of (the man of) STEEL to do so :^)

I also considered using non-conductive strings and superimposing a HF AC waveform on them and capacitively coupling
to said plates. T think Gore makes strings covered in a polymer... but alas they are only the WOUND strings :^(

I'll be listening to see how you fare with your project. Good luck!

H^) harry


----- Original Message -----
From: Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Sent: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:11:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...


Well it is at the very start so far but I have some ideas:

Solid guitar body (with rear hollowed fopr mechanic & electronics)
with original neck installed with 6 x .014 gauge strings not tuned
but bent enough to stop on a bridge on body then curve inside
and stretched with use of small ending springs.

One string description:

String notes reading:
Each neck frets will be cut out to 6 parts
and the metal contact between the fret section and the string will
be read as a note played. A design allready used in the 70's Guitorgan controller.

Reading String picking and bendings:
Each of the string spring's end is glueded to the body and stuck to a piezo element
to read string picking strokes while the other spring end stretches with string bending on the neck
fingerboard. The shaft of a small slide potentiometer is attached
on the spring moving side reading the bending.

All the analog readings to a PIC and MIDI'ed output.
These are some starting ideas for this project.
J-Pierre

 On Fri 25/05/12 14:47 , Harry Bissell harrybissell at wowway.com sent:
> and can you tell us of the guitar interface project ???   :^)
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jean-Pierre Desrochers  ricom.ca>To: S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nlSent: Fri, 25 May 2012 12:58:38 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
> 
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> I've just finished my fifth dotcom type module..
> It's a Moog 921B VCO clone made of
> a modified version of the famous  MOTM300 UltraVCO.
> This VCO is so stable.. it was the one I picked up as a choice
> for my 12 VCO modules.
> All the frontend circuitry has been modified to 'merge'
> easily with the front panel pot, rotary switch & jacks.
> For copyright reason some of the project files & schematics
> are not shown. 
> I've built 12 of this module for a future 6 voices guitar interface
> project.All the available files and specs are located here:
> 
> http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/
> 
> Feel free to ask any questions.
> This project took me around 2 years to finalize.
> 
> Thanks for watching.
> J-Pierre
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nlhttp://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> -- 
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
> 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri May 25 20:32:48 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:32:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
Message-ID: <53554.1337970768@oricom.ca>


Veronica,
These are some starting ideas for this project.
I have time to 'see' all the 'failing' possibilities..
Any better idea welcomed..
J-Pierre


 On Fri 25/05/12 15:27 , Veronica Merryfield veronica at merryfield.ca sent:
> 
> On 2012-05-25, at 11:11 AM, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> 
> > String notes reading:
> > Each neck frets will be cut out to 6
> parts> ...
> > Reading String picking and bendings:
> 
> What happens when a string is bent and crosses a fret segment?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nlhttp://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 


From functionofform at gmail.com  Fri May 25 20:58:49 2012
From: functionofform at gmail.com (Elain Klopke)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:58:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems
In-Reply-To: <4AD3E348-E946-4A64-A4A2-04668A75E507@electricdruid.net>
References: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AD3E348-E946-4A64-A4A2-04668A75E507@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAAvcDrg1Zdc-5bbqAaDuGrR3JGF11mA7Gw5xadJUPSA-ft0AyQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
> Could it be feedback resistors the wrong way around?
>
> That'd give you a gain of 1+1/10, which is fairly close to what you're seeing, if I understood what you've done.
>
> Tom

I got nearly the same results when I had accidentally swapped the
resistors. I'm going to give Alan's suggestion of putting in a center
tap on my power supply (in my case, a 9V battery as this will
hopefully end up in a stomp box) and re measuring. Once I get back
from work later tonight. Results will be posted!

-Ian


From veronica at merryfield.ca  Fri May 25 21:04:41 2012
From: veronica at merryfield.ca (Veronica Merryfield)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 12:04:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <640130163.1380635.1337970532649.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
References: <640130163.1380635.1337970532649.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <945B1DD8-41E8-405C-B1C3-0B2CE49C8564@merryfield.ca>


On 2012-05-25, at 11:28 AM, Harry Bissell wrote:

> I've considered this (played with some crude prototypes I made). For those who might be new to the
> wired frets idea... the trouble is when you fret a string you make contact with two frets, the one nearer the
> bridge and the one nearer the nut. Play a Barre chord and you short multiple frets. 

The easiest way is to do it in software, since the OP mentioned using a PIC, and only use the highest fret that makes contact, mimicking what the string does.

If one has non-segmented frets, one need scan the strings and frets in a matrix of switches. Beware of finger grease and grime though, can play havoc although cleaning will mostly fix it. If it is a problem, there are other ways the contact can be detected.

To get bend, use piezos under the saddles. Low pass filter for the bend. The unfiltered signals can be used as pickups if desired. One could treat each pickup as though a VCO output but be careful if mixing with other VCOs as the tunings will not match at every fret - there are ways to fix this if needed. Use an envelope follower on each as another control signal for the synth.

The guitar can use regular strings and tensions and thus be playable without the synth element. 

 

From ijfritz at comcast.net  Fri May 25 21:14:59 2012
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:14:59 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>
References: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net>

At 12:24 PM 5/25/2012, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> > Could you be more specific? How many ppm/K ?
>As stable as the MOTM-300 itself.
>See modules specs:
>http://www.synthtech.com/motm300.html

Right.  Still no answer. :-)

Ian 



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri May 25 21:39:29 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 15:39:29 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
Message-ID: <34900.1337974769@oricom.ca>


>How many ppm/K ?
What I can tell is what I measured so far time/temperature wise.
The following are for each of the 12 VCO's I trimmed
right after their assembly:
I trimmed the 1v/oct trim pot for the best span on the VCO.
Then I carrefully adjusted the high freq compensation
with selected 50ppm resistors (around 1.6meg). Doing so
I've been able to reach a 7 octaves span within 1%.
I used a high precision tuner. I took some measures
in the evening (around 21degC in the basement)
then I unplugged the VCO for all night long.
Because I tuned all my VCO last winter the house temperature
is programmed to go at around 17degC by night from11:00pm to 6:00AM
and get back to 21degC.
So early in the morning at around 18degC  I plugged back my VCO and waited around 15min
for warmup. I hit the lower C key of my keyboard and the tuner showed
a nice C note at the center of the meter. I then checked the overall span
and it tracked nicely.
This is what happened for the 11 others.
Very stable VCO's !
JP


 On Fri 25/05/12 16:14 , Ian Fritz ijfritz at comcast.net sent:
> At 12:24 PM 5/25/2012, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> > > Could you be more specific? How many ppm/K
> ?>As stable as the MOTM-300 itself.
> >See modules specs:
> >http://www.synthtech.com/motm300.html
> Right.  Still no answer. :-)
> 
> Ian 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From synth1 at airmail.net  Fri May 25 21:42:01 2012
From: synth1 at airmail.net (Paul Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:42:01 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net>
References: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003801cd3aae$750ab950$5f202bf0$@airmail.net>

Right.  Still no answer. :-)
===================
My VCO can beat up your VCO :)

Paul S.




From phil.macphail at liivatera.com  Fri May 25 21:46:50 2012
From: phil.macphail at liivatera.com (Phil Macphail)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 20:46:50 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems
In-Reply-To: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DE2AF728-291D-482E-ABD2-E25DA19ACDE4@liivatera.com>

If you have used the same bias circuit, then the amplifier can only source/sink around 100uA. Into 10k that is about 1 volt,
Either increase the bias current or increase the load impedance ( or both), add a buffer or other gain stage and it should start to work,

Good luck,

Phil

On 25 May 2012, at 16:00, Elain Klopke <functionofform at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> I built the simple op-amp in the non-inverting amplifier setup shown
> at the bottom of this page:
> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_5/17.html
> 
> I used 2N3906s for the PNP transistors and 2N3904s for the NPNs and
> put a 10Kohm reistor in the feedback loop and a 1Kohm resistor to
> ground from the inverting input. In theory that should have produced a
> gain of 11. However, when I adjust the pot so that one volt is going
> into the non-inverting input of the circuit, I get 1.04 volts at the
> output. I measured between the wiper of the pot and the ground
> connection and between the output and ground. I can't quite figure it
> out.
> 
> -Ian Smith
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Fri May 25 23:44:17 2012
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 15:44:17 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <003801cd3aae$750ab950$5f202bf0$@airmail.net>
References: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net>
	<003801cd3aae$750ab950$5f202bf0$@airmail.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20120525154306.0233dae0@mail.comcast.net>

At 01:42 PM 5/25/2012, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>Right.  Still no answer. :-)
>===================
>My VCO can beat up your VCO :)

LOL!  So put up your numbers.

Ian 



From stewpye at optusnet.com.au  Sat May 26 00:40:26 2012
From: stewpye at optusnet.com.au (Stewart Pye)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:40:26 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] TB303 Slide
Message-ID: <4FC00A5A.4000505@optusnet.com.au>

Hi,

I'm guessing someone here already knows the answer to this...

Does the R2R DAC in the TB 303 feeding the glide capacitor directly 
actually achieve constant glide time regardless of the voltage span 
between notes. (ie: glide time from 1V to 1.83V is the same as from 1V 
to 2V?)

Top left corner of the schematic.
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=760

Regards,
Stewart.



From stewpye at optusnet.com.au  Sat May 26 01:50:51 2012
From: stewpye at optusnet.com.au (Stewart Pye)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 09:50:51 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] TB303 Slide
In-Reply-To: <4FC00A5A.4000505@optusnet.com.au>
References: <4FC00A5A.4000505@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <4FC01ADB.9020001@optusnet.com.au>

That was meant to be "(ie: glide time from 1V to 1.083V is the same as 
from 1V to 2V?)"

Stew.

On 5/26/2012 8:40 AM, Stewart Pye wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm guessing someone here already knows the answer to this...
>
> Does the R2R DAC in the TB 303 feeding the glide capacitor directly 
> actually achieve constant glide time regardless of the voltage span 
> between notes. (ie: glide time from 1V to 1.83V is the same as from 1V 
> to 2V?)
>
> Top left corner of the schematic.
> http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=760
>
> Regards,
> Stewart.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From tim102 at timstinchcombe.co.uk  Sat May 26 02:23:10 2012
From: tim102 at timstinchcombe.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 01:23:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TB303 Slide
In-Reply-To: <4FC00A5A.4000505@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <FDB0DF2EC32A4207A7C8CF51A10FBD97@stingo>

> Does the R2R DAC in the TB 303 feeding the glide capacitor directly 
> actually achieve constant glide time regardless of the voltage span 
> between notes. (ie: glide time from 1V to 1.83V is the same 
> as from 1V 
> to 2V?)

Yes. The output resistance of the DAC is always 100k, regardless of the
voltage, and so the time constant with the 220n (C35) is 22ms - thus after
about 60ms the slide is complete, no matter how large or small the voltage
change was.

I have spent quite a lot of time looking into this myself recently,
including scouring the archives - there is lots of interesting stuff in
there about how all this works: the timing of the slide signal, and that the
slide is active for a short pulse on *every* note in order to load the 4174,
but of course stays high for those for which 'proper' slide _is_ required!

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at timstinchcombe.co.uk
www.timstinchcombe.co.uk



From briancastro2 at gmail.com  Sat May 26 05:29:29 2012
From: briancastro2 at gmail.com (Brian Castro)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 20:29:29 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] TB303 Slide
In-Reply-To: <FDB0DF2EC32A4207A7C8CF51A10FBD97@stingo>
References: <FDB0DF2EC32A4207A7C8CF51A10FBD97@stingo>
Message-ID: <9ADFA13D-DC96-4A8A-8F57-41D8662802A0@gmail.com>

Tim is right on, I've done a lot of testing w/ this myself.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 25, 2012, at 5:23 PM, "Tim Stinchcombe" <tim102 at timstinchcombe.co.uk 
 > wrote:

>> Does the R2R DAC in the TB 303 feeding the glide capacitor directly
>> actually achieve constant glide time regardless of the voltage span
>> between notes. (ie: glide time from 1V to 1.83V is the same
>> as from 1V
>> to 2V?)
>
> Yes. The output resistance of the DAC is always 100k, regardless of  
> the
> voltage, and so the time constant with the 220n (C35) is 22ms - thus  
> after
> about 60ms the slide is complete, no matter how large or small the  
> voltage
> change was.
>
> I have spent quite a lot of time looking into this myself recently,
> including scouring the archives - there is lots of interesting stuff  
> in
> there about how all this works: the timing of the slide signal, and  
> that the
> slide is active for a short pulse on *every* note in order to load  
> the 4174,
> but of course stays high for those for which 'proper' slide _is_  
> required!
>
> Tim
> __________________________________________________________
> Tim Stinchcombe
>
> Cheltenham, Glos, UK
> email: tim102 at timstinchcombe.co.uk
> www.timstinchcombe.co.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sat May 26 06:29:07 2012
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 05:29:07 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TB303 Slide
In-Reply-To: <FDB0DF2EC32A4207A7C8CF51A10FBD97@stingo>
References: <FDB0DF2EC32A4207A7C8CF51A10FBD97@stingo>
Message-ID: <4FC05C13.7040504@gjcp.net>

On 26/05/12 01:23, Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
>> Does the R2R DAC in the TB 303 feeding the glide capacitor directly
>> actually achieve constant glide time regardless of the voltage span
>> between notes. (ie: glide time from 1V to 1.83V is the same
>> as from 1V
>> to 2V?)
>
> Yes. The output resistance of the DAC is always 100k, regardless of the
> voltage, and so the time constant with the 220n (C35) is 22ms - thus after
> about 60ms the slide is complete, no matter how large or small the voltage
> change was.

Yup.  Counter-intuitive as it sounds, the time taken for the slide 
doesn't change with the voltage swing.

If it did, RC filters would tune differently depending on the level of 
the input signal.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ


From functionofform at gmail.com  Sat May 26 06:47:24 2012
From: functionofform at gmail.com (Elain Klopke)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 23:47:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems
In-Reply-To: <DE2AF728-291D-482E-ABD2-E25DA19ACDE4@liivatera.com>
References: <CAAvcDrhODai9kmawsM4g0ih36jKj=jNusMNxjknpcZHJA+J8CA@mail.gmail.com>
	<DE2AF728-291D-482E-ABD2-E25DA19ACDE4@liivatera.com>
Message-ID: <CAAvcDrjUKr8DUkmqWD4yQtCiTKt_pCivhxm5HpJ4SGp-CqGPNw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Phil Macphail
<phil.macphail at liivatera.com> wrote:
> If you have used the same bias circuit, then the amplifier can only source/sink around 100uA. Into 10k that is about 1 volt,
> Either increase the bias current or increase the load impedance ( or both), add a buffer or other gain stage and it should start to work,
>
> Good luck,
>
> Phil

You're probably going to have to show me a diagram of what you're
talking about Phil.... Just so I can make sure I get it.

-Ian


From louis at dompselaar.org  Sat May 26 14:17:19 2012
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 14:17:19 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Long shaft pc mount dual pot
Message-ID: <A9311ABB-A374-42E7-B200-172DA614116A@dompselaar.org>

I'm looking for a long D-shaft pcb mount dual pot to replace the one in my Lexicon MPX-1.
Preferably from an EU source.  I have only found short split shaft so far...
Any ideas?

Louis



From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sat May 26 21:55:27 2012
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 20:55:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20120525154306.0233dae0@mail.comcast.net>
References: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net>
	<003801cd3aae$750ab950$5f202bf0$@airmail.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525154306.0233dae0@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4FC1352F.9010003@gjcp.net>

On 25/05/12 22:44, Ian Fritz wrote:
> At 01:42 PM 5/25/2012, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>> Right. Still no answer. :-)
>> ===================
>> My VCO can beat up your VCO :)
>
> LOL! So put up your numbers.

Pff, VCOs.  DCOs are much better.  I bet you can't even do arbitrary 
waveforms, never mind exhibit repeatable tuning characteristics to 
 >10ppm ;-)

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ


From ijfritz at comcast.net  Sat May 26 22:10:37 2012
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 14:10:37 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <4FC1352F.9010003@gjcp.net>
References: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net>
	<003801cd3aae$750ab950$5f202bf0$@airmail.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525154306.0233dae0@mail.comcast.net>
	<4FC1352F.9010003@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20120526140912.02387610@mail.comcast.net>

At 01:55 PM 5/26/2012, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

>Pff, VCOs.  DCOs are much better.  I bet you can't even do arbitrary 
>waveforms, never mind exhibit repeatable tuning characteristics to >10ppm ;-)

The Double Deka has a user drawn waveform, and is stable to better than 50 
ppm/K.

Ian 



From taviny at hotmail.com  Sat May 26 22:30:04 2012
From: taviny at hotmail.com (Paul Newman)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 15:30:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20120526140912.02387610@mail.comcast.net>
References: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net>
	<003801cd3aae$750ab950$5f202bf0$@airmail.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525154306.0233dae0@mail.comcast.net>
	<4FC1352F.9010003@gjcp.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120526140912.02387610@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY0-P4-EAS204F5BC42A394C372DA335D2060@phx.gbl>

But not to brag, right ;)

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2012, at 3:12 PM, "Ian Fritz" <ijfritz at comcast.net> wrote:

> At 01:55 PM 5/26/2012, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
> 
>> Pff, VCOs.  DCOs are much better.  I bet you can't even do arbitrary waveforms, never mind exhibit repeatable tuning characteristics to >10ppm ;-)
> 
> The Double Deka has a user drawn waveform, and is stable to better than 50 ppm/K.
> 
> Ian 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From aym-htnys at teaser.fr  Sat May 26 22:59:45 2012
From: aym-htnys at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 22:59:45 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <4FC1352F.9010003@gjcp.net>
References: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net>
	<003801cd3aae$750ab950$5f202bf0$@airmail.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525154306.0233dae0@mail.comcast.net>
	<4FC1352F.9010003@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <20120526205945.GA1483@aym.net2.nerim.net>

On 2012-05-26 20:55 +0100, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
> On 25/05/12 22:44, Ian Fritz wrote:
> >At 01:42 PM 5/25/2012, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> >>My VCO can beat up your VCO :)
> >
> >LOL! So put up your numbers.
> 
> Pff, VCOs.  DCOs are much better.  I bet you can't even do arbitrary
> waveforms, never mind exhibit repeatable tuning characteristics to
> 10ppm ;-)

This turning of the tables on Ian is interesting. I thought
that, of the two, he was the one who bragged the least and
contributed the most knowledge to the community.

-- 
Andr? Majorel http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/


From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sun May 27 01:21:46 2012
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 00:21:46 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Akai X7000, no audio
Message-ID: <4FC1658A.3040600@gjcp.net>

Hi all
I've just picked up an Akai X7000 sampler from eBay as a non-runner. 
There is quite a bit of damage and corrosion to the case, but it seems 
basically complete.  I can't get it to sample any sounds, though, and I 
can't test by loading a sound since I haven't any sample disks and I 
haven't repaired the gooey drive belt yet.

Does anyone on the list have a workshop manual, or a good pointer to 
someone selling a workshop manual?  I've pretty much drawn a blank on it.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ


From stewpye at optusnet.com.au  Sun May 27 01:36:34 2012
From: stewpye at optusnet.com.au (Stewart Pye)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 09:36:34 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] TB303 Slide
In-Reply-To: <FDB0DF2EC32A4207A7C8CF51A10FBD97@stingo>
References: <FDB0DF2EC32A4207A7C8CF51A10FBD97@stingo>
Message-ID: <4FC16902.1020704@optusnet.com.au>

That makes sense. So the slide time is the same as a standard RC 
portamento circuit with the R being 100k and the C being 220n, the only 
difference is the way the C is switched and the fact that it is switched 
on briefly even when you don't want it.

I've simulated the RC circuit in LT spice and have proved T=RC 
regardless of the target voltage.

One thing that confused me was that the Arp Axxe service manual says for 
portamento speed:
Minimum speed 1.5 seconds per octave
Maximum speed 0.01ms per octave
Yet it looks like a simple RC circuit into FET buffered op amp buffer....

I'm designing a sequencer that will have slide and accent capabilities 
of the TB303 and am trying to decide whether to use a 12 bit DAC or an 
R2R ladder like the TB303. If I go the R2R route I'll use a decent 
voltage reference, and probably a 74ACT573 to drive the R2R ladder. This 
will allow me to drive it from a 3.3V micro, and should have enough 
current output to obviate the extra buffers in the 303 circuit. I just 
need to get one and measure the high and low output voltages.

Thanks for the advice.

Regards,
Stewart.


On 5/26/2012 10:23 AM, Tim Stinchcombe wrote:
>> Does the R2R DAC in the TB 303 feeding the glide capacitor directly
>> actually achieve constant glide time regardless of the voltage span
>> between notes. (ie: glide time from 1V to 1.83V is the same
>> as from 1V
>> to 2V?)
> Yes. The output resistance of the DAC is always 100k, regardless of the
> voltage, and so the time constant with the 220n (C35) is 22ms - thus after
> about 60ms the slide is complete, no matter how large or small the voltage
> change was.
>
> I have spent quite a lot of time looking into this myself recently,
> including scouring the archives - there is lots of interesting stuff in
> there about how all this works: the timing of the slide signal, and that the
> slide is active for a short pulse on *every* note in order to load the 4174,
> but of course stays high for those for which 'proper' slide _is_ required!
>
> Tim
> __________________________________________________________
> Tim Stinchcombe
>
> Cheltenham, Glos, UK
> email: tim102 at timstinchcombe.co.uk
> www.timstinchcombe.co.uk
>
>
>



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sun May 27 10:52:06 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 09:52:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] TB303 Slide
In-Reply-To: <4FC16902.1020704@optusnet.com.au>
References: <FDB0DF2EC32A4207A7C8CF51A10FBD97@stingo>
	<4FC16902.1020704@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <662EA804-F689-4BF7-A2A0-C55A1F2A8BB0@electricdruid.net>


On 27 May 2012, at 00:36, Stewart Pye wrote:

> I'm designing a sequencer that will have slide and accent capabilities of the TB303 and am trying to decide whether to use a 12 bit DAC or an R2R ladder like the TB303. If I go the R2R route I'll use a decent voltage reference, and probably a 74ACT573 to drive the R2R ladder. This will allow me to drive it from a 3.3V micro, and should have enough current output to obviate the extra buffers in the 303 circuit. I just need to get one and measure the high and low output voltages.

Personally, I'd use the DAC, particularly if you're driving from a micro. The only reason I can see for doing it the TB303 way is low cost, but whilst that was true then, it isn't so true now. You can buy a cheap 12-bit DAC that will do the job for probably similar money to what all the other bits and bobs will cost you (less if you want a voltage ref too), and it'll be simpler and easier with the DAC.
Save the micro's IO pins for something useful and stick a cheap SPI DAC on it. If you want "authentic" use a resistor string DAC!

My 0.02.

Tom





From louis at dompselaar.org  Sun May 27 11:53:00 2012
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 11:53:00 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Akai X7000, no audio
In-Reply-To: <4FC1658A.3040600@gjcp.net>
References: <4FC1658A.3040600@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <30CA3EF5-4571-4309-B28B-B71A19A6F099@dompselaar.org>

Gordon,

I have the service manual here:
http://www.dompselaar.org/Akai/X7000_SERVICE_MANUAL.zip

Louis


Op 27 mei 2012, om 01:21 heeft Gordon JC Pearce het volgende geschreven:

> Hi all
> I've just picked up an Akai X7000 sampler from eBay as a non-runner. There is quite a bit of damage and corrosion to the case, but it seems basically complete.  I can't get it to sample any sounds, though, and I can't test by loading a sound since I haven't any sample disks and I haven't repaired the gooey drive belt yet.
> 
> Does anyone on the list have a workshop manual, or a good pointer to someone selling a workshop manual?  I've pretty much drawn a blank on it.
> 
> -- 
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sun May 27 13:26:48 2012
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 12:26:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Akai X7000, no audio
In-Reply-To: <30CA3EF5-4571-4309-B28B-B71A19A6F099@dompselaar.org>
References: <4FC1658A.3040600@gjcp.net>
	<30CA3EF5-4571-4309-B28B-B71A19A6F099@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <4FC20F78.5080109@gjcp.net>

On 27/05/12 10:53, Louis van Dompselaar wrote:
> Gordon,
>
> I have the service manual here:
> http://www.dompselaar.org/Akai/X7000_SERVICE_MANUAL.zip
>
> Louis

Thanks for that.  Were there two versions of the X7000?  The boards in 
that look substantially different from what I have - for one thing, it 
appears to have the analogue and digital sections on the same board...


-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ


From louis at dompselaar.org  Sun May 27 14:52:32 2012
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:52:32 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Akai X7000, no audio
In-Reply-To: <4FC20F78.5080109@gjcp.net>
References: <4FC1658A.3040600@gjcp.net>
	<30CA3EF5-4571-4309-B28B-B71A19A6F099@dompselaar.org>
	<4FC20F78.5080109@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <F4CDF417-82DD-4809-AD78-DB70F985EA6D@dompselaar.org>


Op 27 mei 2012, om 13:26 heeft Gordon JC Pearce het volgende geschreven:

> Thanks for that.  Were there two versions of the X7000?  The boards in that look substantially different from what I have - for one thing, it appears to have the analogue and digital sections on the same board...


That would be remarkably considering it was only in production for one year.

I have to admit I hadn't really looked at it before, just stored it when I found it, in case I'd need it one day.
Looking at it now it does seem to miss quite a bit.

I used to have one here a couple of years ago, but can't remember what it looked like inside.  I'll see if I took
any pics back then.




From louis at dompselaar.org  Sun May 27 14:58:59 2012
From: louis at dompselaar.org (Louis van Dompselaar)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:58:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Akai X7000, no audio
In-Reply-To: <F4CDF417-82DD-4809-AD78-DB70F985EA6D@dompselaar.org>
References: <4FC1658A.3040600@gjcp.net>
	<30CA3EF5-4571-4309-B28B-B71A19A6F099@dompselaar.org>
	<4FC20F78.5080109@gjcp.net>
	<F4CDF417-82DD-4809-AD78-DB70F985EA6D@dompselaar.org>
Message-ID: <A5708614-D4F1-495C-A7FD-0480098B81FD@dompselaar.org>


Op 27 mei 2012, om 14:52 heeft Louis van Dompselaar het volgende geschreven:

> I used to have one here a couple of years ago, but can't remember what it looked like inside.  I'll see if I took
> any pics back then.

I found one, taken after I acquired the expansion board.  It does show the cpu board as it is in the service manual.
So if yours is different from this pic, there were two versions.

http://www.dompselaar.org/Akai/DSC_0982.jpg

The ROM seems to read "V1.2".



From phil.macphail at liivatera.com  Sun May 27 22:58:06 2012
From: phil.macphail at liivatera.com (Phil Macphail)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 21:58:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems
In-Reply-To: <CAAvcDrjUKr8DUkmqWD4yQtCiTKt_pCivhxm5HpJ4SGp-CqGPNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBE84E76.74DB%phil.macphail@liivatera.com>


Hi Elain,
Sorry for the delay in replying, I have been away from home for a few days
but here goes
Breaking the problem into steps for clarity -
1. The resistor Rprg is 100k with a little over 10Volts across it. This
gives a little over 100uA into Q5, and is the bias circuit I was referring
to. Reduce this resistor value to run the design at a higher current.
2. This 100uA is mirrored by Q6, so each side of the differential pair
will carry 50uA when balanced, so with no load the current mirrored by
Q1,Q2 will be equal to the collector current of Q4 and the output voltage
doesn't change. 
3. Any load on the output (such as the resistors in red) will unbalance
the differential pair - the limit is when Q4 isn't conducting and Q3
carries the full 100uA. In this case the 100uA is mirrored by Q1,Q2, and
there is no current flowing through Q4.
4. The maximum current into the feedback resistors and load is therefore
100uA.
5. With the resistors you chose (10k + 1k) with 100uA flowing through them
gives a voltage of 1.1Volts - assuming all transistors are perfectly
matched - which is pretty much the voltage you measure.

So if you want a larger output voltage range you will need to follow the
suggestions in my first mail. To make a useful amplifier from this circuit
you need to add a buffer to the output, so this circuit is really of
educational value only (with the limitations others mentioned too).



On 26/05/2012 05:47, "Elain Klopke" <functionofform at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Phil Macphail
><phil.macphail at liivatera.com> wrote:
>> If you have used the same bias circuit, then the amplifier can only
>>source/sink around 100uA. Into 10k that is about 1 volt,
>> Either increase the bias current or increase the load impedance ( or
>>both), add a buffer or other gain stage and it should start to work,
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> Phil
>
>You're probably going to have to show me a diagram of what you're
>talking about Phil.... Just so I can make sure I get it.
>
>-Ian
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From functionofform at gmail.com  Mon May 28 04:29:39 2012
From: functionofform at gmail.com (Elain Klopke)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 21:29:39 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] transistor op-amp problems
In-Reply-To: <CBE84E76.74DB%phil.macphail@liivatera.com>
References: <CAAvcDrjUKr8DUkmqWD4yQtCiTKt_pCivhxm5HpJ4SGp-CqGPNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CBE84E76.74DB%phil.macphail@liivatera.com>
Message-ID: <CAAvcDrjzfA8tv6G47iqWFMjoXoediMrsVN2i-a6FN4Ypm0a-UA@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, ok, thank you for that explanation, Phil. That makes a lot more sense now.

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Phil Macphail
<phil.macphail at liivatera.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Elain,
> Sorry for the delay in replying, I have been away from home for a few days
> but here goes
> Breaking the problem into steps for clarity -
> 1. The resistor Rprg is 100k with a little over 10Volts across it. This
> gives a little over 100uA into Q5, and is the bias circuit I was referring
> to. Reduce this resistor value to run the design at a higher current.
> 2. This 100uA is mirrored by Q6, so each side of the differential pair
> will carry 50uA when balanced, so with no load the current mirrored by
> Q1,Q2 will be equal to the collector current of Q4 and the output voltage
> doesn't change.
> 3. Any load on the output (such as the resistors in red) will unbalance
> the differential pair - the limit is when Q4 isn't conducting and Q3
> carries the full 100uA. In this case the 100uA is mirrored by Q1,Q2, and
> there is no current flowing through Q4.
> 4. The maximum current into the feedback resistors and load is therefore
> 100uA.
> 5. With the resistors you chose (10k + 1k) with 100uA flowing through them
> gives a voltage of 1.1Volts - assuming all transistors are perfectly
> matched - which is pretty much the voltage you measure.
>
> So if you want a larger output voltage range you will need to follow the
> suggestions in my first mail. To make a useful amplifier from this circuit
> you need to add a buffer to the output, so this circuit is really of
> educational value only (with the limitations others mentioned too).
>
>
>
> On 26/05/2012 05:47, "Elain Klopke" <functionofform at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Phil Macphail
>><phil.macphail at liivatera.com> wrote:
>>> If you have used the same bias circuit, then the amplifier can only
>>>source/sink around 100uA. Into 10k that is about 1 volt,
>>> Either increase the bias current or increase the load impedance ( or
>>>both), add a buffer or other gain stage and it should start to work,
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>>
>>> Phil
>>
>>You're probably going to have to show me a diagram of what you're
>>talking about Phil.... Just so I can make sure I get it.
>>
>>-Ian
>>_______________________________________________
>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon May 28 18:08:03 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 12:08:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
Message-ID: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>

I know this is a question of personnal tastes
but some winner designs are all around so...

What would be THE best, most versatile VCF
available on DIY community ?
I'm talking about lo-pass, band-pass, hi-pass selectable
VCF with also 12db or 24db/oct selectable choice..
I'm starting to grab some ideas about a very good VCF.
The format doesn't matter since I'll finally retrofit it
to dotcom format.
So far the design that would please me would
be made of a motherboard designed from the lo-pass
Moog transistors ladder idea but ready (with pins or connectors) 
to be emptied and 'accept' ARP type VCF daughter boards on top of it
with the needed 'frontend' driver/summers ICs  space
to completely change its design from a VCF module to another one.
Multiple VCF types with one motherboard and many VCF daughterboards
like the ARP 4012, 4035, 4072, 4075..(or other companies small PCB designs)
Here, I'd still have no band-pass, hi-pass type but
as I said I'm just starting of thinking of the possibilities..
Thanks.
J-Pierre


From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon May 28 18:54:04 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 17:54:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>

For versatility, I'd go with a Oberheim Xpander type filter. E.g. a basic four-pole filter with selectable weighted outputs to provide a variety of responses. The underlying  filter could be whatever you like - Moog ladder, SSM2164, OTA, etc.
Multiple daughter boards isn't a versatile filter - it's lots of different filters.

Tom


On 28 May 2012, at 17:08, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

> I know this is a question of personnal tastes
> but some winner designs are all around so...
> 
> What would be THE best, most versatile VCF
> available on DIY community ?
> I'm talking about lo-pass, band-pass, hi-pass selectable
> VCF with also 12db or 24db/oct selectable choice..
> I'm starting to grab some ideas about a very good VCF.
> The format doesn't matter since I'll finally retrofit it
> to dotcom format.
> So far the design that would please me would
> be made of a motherboard designed from the lo-pass
> Moog transistors ladder idea but ready (with pins or connectors) 
> to be emptied and 'accept' ARP type VCF daughter boards on top of it
> with the needed 'frontend' driver/summers ICs  space
> to completely change its design from a VCF module to another one.
> Multiple VCF types with one motherboard and many VCF daughterboards
> like the ARP 4012, 4035, 4072, 4075..(or other companies small PCB designs)
> Here, I'd still have no band-pass, hi-pass type but
> as I said I'm just starting of thinking of the possibilities..
> Thanks.
> J-Pierre
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Mon May 28 19:14:47 2012
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 10:14:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <1338225287.90746.YahooMailClassic@web181705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I would probably say Craig Anderton's Multiple Identity Filter based on the CEM3320 - 

http://synthdiy.com/show/?id=624

Doug 
synthparts.com

--- On Mon, 5/28/12, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:

> From: Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
> Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best, most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Monday, May 28, 2012, 9:08 AM
> I know this is a question of
> personnal tastes
> but some winner designs are all around so...
> 
> What would be THE best, most versatile VCF
> available on DIY community ?
> I'm talking about lo-pass, band-pass, hi-pass selectable
> VCF with also 12db or 24db/oct selectable choice..
> I'm starting to grab some ideas about a very good VCF.
> The format doesn't matter since I'll finally retrofit it
> to dotcom format.
> So far the design that would please me would
> be made of a motherboard designed from the lo-pass
> Moog transistors ladder idea but ready (with pins or
> connectors) 
> to be emptied and 'accept' ARP type VCF daughter boards on
> top of it
> with the needed 'frontend' driver/summers ICs? space
> to completely change its design from a VCF module to another
> one.
> Multiple VCF types with one motherboard and many VCF
> daughterboards
> like the ARP 4012, 4035, 4072, 4075..(or other companies
> small PCB designs)
> Here, I'd still have no band-pass, hi-pass type but
> as I said I'm just starting of thinking of the
> possibilities..
> Thanks.
> J-Pierre
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From andy at cytomic.com  Mon May 28 19:19:13 2012
From: andy at cytomic.com (Andrew Simper)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 18:19:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
 most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
	<0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>

How about the?Elka Synthex Multimode Filter (LP/BP/HP) as outlined
here: http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=info.cem3320

It can be made from any ota core and provides "stronger" high pass and
band pass responses than the Xpander style summing of output taps.
I've got some IR3109s and some BA662s I'm going to give this a go
with.

Andy
--


On 28 May 2012 17:54, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>
> For versatility, I'd go with a Oberheim Xpander type filter. E.g. a basic four-pole filter with selectable weighted outputs to provide a variety of responses. The underlying ?filter could be whatever you like - Moog ladder, SSM2164, OTA, etc.
> Multiple daughter boards isn't a versatile filter - it's lots of different filters.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 28 May 2012, at 17:08, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
> > I know this is a question of personnal tastes
> > but some winner designs are all around so...
> >
> > What would be THE best, most versatile VCF
> > available on DIY community ?
> > I'm talking about lo-pass, band-pass, hi-pass selectable
> > VCF with also 12db or 24db/oct selectable choice..
> > I'm starting to grab some ideas about a very good VCF.
> > The format doesn't matter since I'll finally retrofit it
> > to dotcom format.
> > So far the design that would please me would
> > be made of a motherboard designed from the lo-pass
> > Moog transistors ladder idea but ready (with pins or connectors)
> > to be emptied and 'accept' ARP type VCF daughter boards on top of it
> > with the needed 'frontend' driver/summers ICs ?space
> > to completely change its design from a VCF module to another one.
> > Multiple VCF types with one motherboard and many VCF daughterboards
> > like the ARP 4012, 4035, 4072, 4075..(or other companies small PCB designs)
> > Here, I'd still have no band-pass, hi-pass type but
> > as I said I'm just starting of thinking of the possibilities..
> > Thanks.
> > J-Pierre
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Mon May 28 20:03:56 2012
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (KA4HJH)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 14:03:56 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
 most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <1338225287.90746.YahooMailClassic@web181705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1338225287.90746.YahooMailClassic@web181705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800cbe96e52acd1@[192.168.1.70]>

>I would probably say Craig Anderton's Multiple Identity Filter based on
>the CEM3320 -
>
>http://synthdiy.com/show/?id=624
>
>Doug
>synthparts.com

Original Keyboard MIF article including schematic here:

http://www.crowncity.net/ratcave/Electro/MIF/mif.html

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Tue May 29 02:58:27 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 08:58:27 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <276D5B7B69CB4476BB141E451371CEEA@galvanox01>

I've got a couple of filter designs of my own that I think are pretty
versatile, and for which I sell handmade PCBs.  Both filters are based on
the SSM2164 chip (although I actually use the Coolaudio V2164 chip, which is
available for less than $4 from a number of vendors, and is thankfullly not
obsolete).

The 2164 Korgasmatron III is a MS-20-inspired dual VCF which has up to three
signal inputs to each filter.  Each input can be assigned separately to any
one of six filter modes with rotary switches: 12dB LP, 6dB LP, BP, 6dB HP,
12dB HP, and notch.  The filters can be operated in series or in parallel.
PCBs are $35.

The 2164 4P LPF is a cascaded 4P with a couple of twists.  It's got separate
gain cells after every filter stage, which gives resonance without
sacrificing the signal (which happens in all conventional cascaded 4P
filters unless something else is done, like the MOTM 440 "bass boost").
This has the added advantage of passing the sine waves at self-oscillation
at equal amplitude.  This feature can be switched off to give the
conventional single gain cell configuration if a more classic sound is
desired.  It also has an extra capacitor on every filter stage which is 100
times larger and can be switched in to make the filter a dedicated
quadrature LFO which is stable to very low frequencies.  There are eight
outputs, each at 45 degrees phase shift from the last.  The board is set up
so you can easily tap out the input, the feedback signal, and four selected
outputs to a multimode expander.  With these, just about any filter mode
imaginable can be obtained by summing the various signals at different gain
ratios.  I've figured out the gain ratios for 30 distinct modes, but
hundreds of additional "in-between" modes are also possible.  I haven't
built the expander, so YMMV.  PCBs are $40.

Email privately if you are interested.



From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Tue May 29 03:08:23 2012
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (KA4HJH)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 21:08:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
 most versatile VCF available on  DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <CAMZJ4emJCKKf=Am1oT3jD4YwGwOuAh8dAmNzti3sbOk908FnwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1338225287.90746.YahooMailClassic@web181705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<p06240800cbe96e52acd1@192.168.1.70>
	<CAMZJ4emJCKKf=Am1oT3jD4YwGwOuAh8dAmNzti3sbOk908FnwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0624080acbe9d1c0facc@[192.168.1.70]>

>There is no satisfying all in one solution. ?There ar4 some cool things
>out ther though. An obscure but very good filter is the original Arp Axxe
>filter some lter Axxes were modified with a switch to make it either a
>post lawsuit Axxe Filter or a version of the moog ladder filter both sound
>real nice.
>
>Early OB-1 filters are nice too. There are no chips in the earliest ones.
>?They sound different ?from later CEM filters.
>
>Filters are like fx boxes, you either have one or many. At this point
>every MOTM filter is a part of my life along with othere. Modularists are
>beginning to use filter suites in their systems, I don't know if it is an
>actual phenomena or not but I know 5 filter hoarders.

Agreed. If there's one thing you need more than one of, it's VCFs.

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Tue May 29 05:48:17 2012
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Lanterman, Aaron)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 03:48:17 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
 most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
	<0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>
	<CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <09439FF0-828A-45B7-AAFC-B4CC6EBF1984@ece.gatech.edu>


On May 28, 2012, at 1:19 PM, Andrew Simper wrote:

> How about the Elka Synthex Multimode Filter (LP/BP/HP) as outlined
> here: http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=info.cem3320
> 
> It can be made from any ota core and provides "stronger" high pass and
> band pass responses than the Xpander style summing of output taps.
> I've got some IR3109s and some BA662s I'm going to give this a go
> with.

The Synthex filter is unique.

The way it forms a two-pole filter with variable "Q" is to cascade two usual first-order LP filters (for instance) and then feed the output back to the input. I can't seem to find my notes on it now, but I remember working out the transfer function. Changing the feedback, IIRC, doesn't give you a Q (as typically defined for a 2nd-order filter) that varies independently of the "fc" (usually called the "cutoff"), as in the case of a State Variable Filter or a Sallen-Key. The fc also changes. So there's a subtle difference in how it responds.

One thing to be careful of when looking at the Synthex schematics and thinking of adopting it is that the CEM3320 variable gain elements are not typical OTA cells. They're these weird things that I haven't seen elsewhere, and have some biasing requirements that confused the daylights out of me when I first looked at the schematic.

- Aaron

From yo at vacoloco.net  Tue May 29 08:12:26 2012
From: yo at vacoloco.net (Paul Maddox)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 07:12:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
 most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <09439FF0-828A-45B7-AAFC-B4CC6EBF1984@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
	<0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>
	<CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<09439FF0-828A-45B7-AAFC-B4CC6EBF1984@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <CADm3=9QZvehSJL43_5nSnt1HD5OWKxRYHOfbqp5GiDDcPKnJcA@mail.gmail.com>

For me, it would be the one from the oberheim xpander..
16 different filter modes in one :)

but it depends on what you want from a filter.

Paul

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Lanterman, Aaron
<lanterma at ece.gatech.edu> wrote:
>
> On May 28, 2012, at 1:19 PM, Andrew Simper wrote:
>
>> How about the Elka Synthex Multimode Filter (LP/BP/HP) as outlined
>> here: http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=info.cem3320
>>
>> It can be made from any ota core and provides "stronger" high pass and
>> band pass responses than the Xpander style summing of output taps.
>> I've got some IR3109s and some BA662s I'm going to give this a go
>> with.
>
> The Synthex filter is unique.
>
> The way it forms a two-pole filter with variable "Q" is to cascade two usual first-order LP filters (for instance) and then feed the output back to the input. I can't seem to find my notes on it now, but I remember working out the transfer function. Changing the feedback, IIRC, doesn't give you a Q (as typically defined for a 2nd-order filter) that varies independently of the "fc" (usually called the "cutoff"), as in the case of a State Variable Filter or a Sallen-Key. The fc also changes. So there's a subtle difference in how it responds.
>
> One thing to be careful of when looking at the Synthex schematics and thinking of adopting it is that the CEM3320 variable gain elements are not typical OTA cells. They're these weird things that I haven't seen elsewhere, and have some biasing requirements that confused the daylights out of me when I first looked at the schematic.
>
> - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Tue May 29 09:10:50 2012
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Lanterman, Aaron)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 07:10:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20120526140912.02387610@mail.comcast.net>
References: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net>
	<003801cd3aae$750ab950$5f202bf0$@airmail.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120525154306.0233dae0@mail.comcast.net>
	<4FC1352F.9010003@gjcp.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20120526140912.02387610@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <99C9F131-1D12-4A7C-90AA-28564C739602@ece.gatech.edu>

On May 26, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Ian Fritz wrote:

> At 01:55 PM 5/26/2012, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
> 
>> Pff, VCOs.  DCOs are much better.  I bet you can't even do arbitrary waveforms, never mind exhibit repeatable tuning characteristics to >10ppm ;-)
> 
> The Double Deka has a user drawn waveform, and is stable to better than 50 ppm/K.

I remember feeling great joy in the electronic music class I took at Wash U, oh, 20 years ago or whenever it was, when I figured out the ARP 2500 sequencer could be clocked at audio rates. 

Of course, I highly doubt it was stable to 50 ppm/K though. ;)

- Aaron

From steve.paperjam at gmail.com  Tue May 29 09:36:28 2012
From: steve.paperjam at gmail.com (Steve Woodward)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 08:36:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] (no subject)
Message-ID: <398CCCED-F07E-496B-9B45-9CEBABD71068@gmail.com>






From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue May 29 10:34:57 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 09:34:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
	<0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>
	<CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBBFD7DB-20D6-4858-8725-DCF0C5A5FA48@electricdruid.net>


On 28 May 2012, at 18:19, Andrew Simper wrote:

> It can be made from any ota core and provides "stronger" high pass and
> band pass responses than the Xpander style summing of output taps.

What do you mean by "stronger" here, Andrew?

Is the Synthex filter stronger because the Xpander method requires an accurate addition to sum the LP and straight signal to get HP?

Aren't the transfer functions the same otherwise? (for at least the modes in question; 12dB HP and 12dB BP)

Thanks,
Tom



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Tue May 29 10:52:11 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 09:52:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
 most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <09439FF0-828A-45B7-AAFC-B4CC6EBF1984@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
	<0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>
	<CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<09439FF0-828A-45B7-AAFC-B4CC6EBF1984@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <CAEaByMSKL57M2ziP0JqKwKdtd8h_6tXPnPeL-JmQn-nhZJzEig@mail.gmail.com>

Lanterman, Aaron wrote:
> The Synthex filter is unique.
>
> The way it forms a two-pole filter with variable "Q" is to cascade two usual first-order LP filters (for instance) and then feed the output back to the input. I can't seem to find my notes on it now, but I remember working out the transfer function. Changing the feedback, IIRC, doesn't give you a Q (as typically defined for a 2nd-order filter) that varies independently of the "fc" (usually called the "cutoff"), as in the case of a State Variable Filter or a Sallen-Key. The fc also changes. So there's a subtle difference in how it responds.

Sounds more like a biquad arrangement - in your analysis did you
notice if the bandwidth remained constant as Fc was changed?

Cheers,
Neil
-- 
Modules and more: http://www.cesyg.com
Homepage: http://www.njohnson.co.uk


From stewpye at optusnet.com.au  Tue May 29 12:48:22 2012
From: stewpye at optusnet.com.au (Stewart Pye)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 20:48:22 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] TB303 Slide
In-Reply-To: <662EA804-F689-4BF7-A2A0-C55A1F2A8BB0@electricdruid.net>
References: <FDB0DF2EC32A4207A7C8CF51A10FBD97@stingo>
	<4FC16902.1020704@optusnet.com.au>
	<662EA804-F689-4BF7-A2A0-C55A1F2A8BB0@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <4FC4A976.2030303@optusnet.com.au>

I probably will use an SPI DAC. Not a cheap one though, as the INL 
errors are pretty bad on the cheap Microchip ones. A MAX532 should work 
well. I want two outputs so it still won't cost much more than using 
0.1% resistors.

Regards,
Stewart.


On 5/27/2012 6:52 PM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> On 27 May 2012, at 00:36, Stewart Pye wrote:
>
>> I'm designing a sequencer that will have slide and accent capabilities of the TB303 and am trying to decide whether to use a 12 bit DAC or an R2R ladder like the TB303. If I go the R2R route I'll use a decent voltage reference, and probably a 74ACT573 to drive the R2R ladder. This will allow me to drive it from a 3.3V micro, and should have enough current output to obviate the extra buffers in the 303 circuit. I just need to get one and measure the high and low output voltages.
> Personally, I'd use the DAC, particularly if you're driving from a micro. The only reason I can see for doing it the TB303 way is low cost, but whilst that was true then, it isn't so true now. You can buy a cheap 12-bit DAC that will do the job for probably similar money to what all the other bits and bobs will cost you (less if you want a voltage ref too), and it'll be simpler and easier with the DAC.
> Save the micro's IO pins for something useful and stick a cheap SPI DAC on it. If you want "authentic" use a resistor string DAC!
>
> My 0.02.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>



From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Tue May 29 17:00:05 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (dan snazelle)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:00:05 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <09439FF0-828A-45B7-AAFC-B4CC6EBF1984@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
	<0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>
	<CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<09439FF0-828A-45B7-AAFC-B4CC6EBF1984@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP152315F43205E085BE08801C8050@phx.gbl>

> One thing to be careful of when looking at the Synthex schematics and thinking of adopting it is that the CEM3320 variable gain elements are not typical OTA cells. They're these weird things that I haven't seen elsewhere, and have some biasing requirements that confused the daylights out of me when I first looked at the schematic.
> 
> - Aaron



this is something that has long bothered me...when looking at schematics that use the CEM chips or SSM chips, is it possible to simply transfer the entire design to OTA's? (13700s)
or is there some sort of MAGIC (something in the patent?) in those chips which makes them hard to copy?

for instance.....the Anderton Multiple Identity Filter...could you make the same thing with OTAs? in his introduction he mentions making it with SSM chips instead of CEM chips...I took that as a good sign.


thanks



On May 28, 2012, at 11:48 PM, Lanterman, Aaron wrote:

> 
> On May 28, 2012, at 1:19 PM, Andrew Simper wrote:
> 
>> How about the Elka Synthex Multimode Filter (LP/BP/HP) as outlined
>> here: http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=info.cem3320
>> 
>> It can be made from any ota core and provides "stronger" high pass and
>> band pass responses than the Xpander style summing of output taps.
>> I've got some IR3109s and some BA662s I'm going to give this a go
>> with.
> 
> The Synthex filter is unique.
> 
> The way it forms a two-pole filter with variable "Q" is to cascade two usual first-order LP filters (for instance) and then feed the output back to the input. I can't seem to find my notes on it now, but I remember working out the transfer function. Changing the feedback, IIRC, doesn't give you a Q (as typically defined for a 2nd-order filter) that varies independently of the "fc" (usually called the "cutoff"), as in the case of a State Variable Filter or a Sallen-Key. The fc also changes. So there's a subtle difference in how it responds.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Tue May 29 17:24:40 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 23:24:40 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP152315F43205E085BE08801C8050@phx.gbl>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca><0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net><CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com><09439FF0-828A-45B7-AAFC-B4CC6EBF1984@ece.gatech.edu>
	<BLU0-SMTP152315F43205E085BE08801C8050@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FE89FACB39304942A4AE64D9333099A3@galvanox01>

> this is something that has long bothered me...when looking at 
> schematics that use the CEM chips or SSM chips, is it 
> possible to simply transfer the entire design to OTA's? 
> (13700s) or is there some sort of MAGIC (something in the 
> patent?) in those chips which makes them hard to copy?
> 
> for instance.....the Anderton Multiple Identity 
> Filter...could you make the same thing with OTAs? in his 
> introduction he mentions making it with SSM chips instead of 
> CEM chips...I took that as a good sign.

There's no magic.  Any filter can be made with OTAs and buffers (or VCAs and
integrators).  The key (and I say this not to sound like a pedantic jerk,
but simply because it is true and never fails if you know how to use it) is
to derive the transfer function of the filter you're trying to emulate and
then use algebra to figure out where to put the various inputs and outputs
and feedbacks in your own version of it.



From harrybissell at wowway.com  Tue May 29 17:26:55 2012
From: harrybissell at wowway.com (Harry Bissell)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:26:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
 most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP152315F43205E085BE08801C8050@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1652646479.1430363.1338305215493.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>

you could do the filters with OTA, but the best you can do is get a dual OTA whereas the CEM and SSM
would have four matched OTA on a single chip. You might need to hand select OTAs to get decent performance...

H^) harry


----- Original Message -----
From: dan snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
To: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
Cc: synthdiy diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:00:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] What would be THE best,	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?

> One thing to be careful of when looking at the Synthex schematics and thinking of adopting it is that the CEM3320 variable gain elements are not typical OTA cells. They're these weird things that I haven't seen elsewhere, and have some biasing requirements that confused the daylights out of me when I first looked at the schematic.
> 
> - Aaron



this is something that has long bothered me...when looking at schematics that use the CEM chips or SSM chips, is it possible to simply transfer the entire design to OTA's? (13700s)
or is there some sort of MAGIC (something in the patent?) in those chips which makes them hard to copy?

for instance.....the Anderton Multiple Identity Filter...could you make the same thing with OTAs? in his introduction he mentions making it with SSM chips instead of CEM chips...I took that as a good sign.


thanks



On May 28, 2012, at 11:48 PM, Lanterman, Aaron wrote:

> 
> On May 28, 2012, at 1:19 PM, Andrew Simper wrote:
> 
>> How about the Elka Synthex Multimode Filter (LP/BP/HP) as outlined
>> here: http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=info.cem3320
>> 
>> It can be made from any ota core and provides "stronger" high pass and
>> band pass responses than the Xpander style summing of output taps.
>> I've got some IR3109s and some BA662s I'm going to give this a go
>> with.
> 
> The Synthex filter is unique.
> 
> The way it forms a two-pole filter with variable "Q" is to cascade two usual first-order LP filters (for instance) and then feed the output back to the input. I can't seem to find my notes on it now, but I remember working out the transfer function. Changing the feedback, IIRC, doesn't give you a Q (as typically defined for a 2nd-order filter) that varies independently of the "fc" (usually called the "cutoff"), as in the case of a State Variable Filter or a Sallen-Key. The fc also changes. So there's a subtle difference in how it responds.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva


From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue May 29 18:07:15 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:07:15 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <1652646479.1430363.1338305215493.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
References: <1652646479.1430363.1338305215493.JavaMail.root@md01.wow.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <A0D94398-C670-42DC-B0DC-CDC6F8C4D9E9@electricdruid.net>

And a there's a resonance VCA too, in the case of the CEM3320. That was its best feature ahead of the SSM2040. Furthermore both chips have buffers which are better than the darlington pair on the LM13700. Many LM13700 filters use external buffers (op-amps or FETs) which adds more circuitry.

Tom

On 29 May 2012, at 16:26, Harry Bissell wrote:

> you could do the filters with OTA, but the best you can do is get a dual OTA whereas the CEM and SSM
> would have four matched OTA on a single chip. You might need to hand select OTAs to get decent performance...
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dan snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com>
> To: Aaron Lanterman <lanterma at ece.gatech.edu>
> Cc: synthdiy diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Sent: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:00:05 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] What would be THE best,	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
> 
>> One thing to be careful of when looking at the Synthex schematics and thinking of adopting it is that the CEM3320 variable gain elements are not typical OTA cells. They're these weird things that I haven't seen elsewhere, and have some biasing requirements that confused the daylights out of me when I first looked at the schematic.
>> 
>> - Aaron
> 
> 
> 
> this is something that has long bothered me...when looking at schematics that use the CEM chips or SSM chips, is it possible to simply transfer the entire design to OTA's? (13700s)
> or is there some sort of MAGIC (something in the patent?) in those chips which makes them hard to copy?
> 
> for instance.....the Anderton Multiple Identity Filter...could you make the same thing with OTAs? in his introduction he mentions making it with SSM chips instead of CEM chips...I took that as a good sign.
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> On May 28, 2012, at 11:48 PM, Lanterman, Aaron wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On May 28, 2012, at 1:19 PM, Andrew Simper wrote:
>> 
>>> How about the Elka Synthex Multimode Filter (LP/BP/HP) as outlined
>>> here: http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php?page=info.cem3320
>>> 
>>> It can be made from any ota core and provides "stronger" high pass and
>>> band pass responses than the Xpander style summing of output taps.
>>> I've got some IR3109s and some BA662s I'm going to give this a go
>>> with.
>> 
>> The Synthex filter is unique.
>> 
>> The way it forms a two-pole filter with variable "Q" is to cascade two usual first-order LP filters (for instance) and then feed the output back to the input. I can't seem to find my notes on it now, but I remember working out the transfer function. Changing the feedback, IIRC, doesn't give you a Q (as typically defined for a 2nd-order filter) that varies independently of the "fc" (usually called the "cutoff"), as in the case of a State Variable Filter or a Sallen-Key. The fc also changes. So there's a subtle difference in how it responds.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> -- 
> Harry Bissell & Nora Abdullah 4eva
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From chris at chrismusic.de  Tue May 29 19:11:30 2012
From: chris at chrismusic.de (ChristianH)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 19:11:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
	most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <FE89FACB39304942A4AE64D9333099A3@galvanox01>
References: <BLU0-SMTP152315F43205E085BE08801C8050@phx.gbl>
	<FE89FACB39304942A4AE64D9333099A3@galvanox01>
Message-ID: <20120529190603.BE62.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

On Tue, 29 May 2012 23:24:40 +0800 David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:

> > this is something that has long bothered me...when looking at 
> > schematics that use the CEM chips or SSM chips, is it 
> > possible to simply transfer the entire design to OTA's? 
> > (13700s) or is there some sort of MAGIC (something in the 
> > patent?) in those chips which makes them hard to copy?
> > 
> > for instance.....the Anderton Multiple Identity 
> > Filter...could you make the same thing with OTAs? in his 
> > introduction he mentions making it with SSM chips instead of 
> > CEM chips...I took that as a good sign.
> 
> There's no magic.  Any filter can be made with OTAs and buffers (or VCAs and
> integrators).  The key (and I say this not to sound like a pedantic jerk,
> but simply because it is true and never fails if you know how to use it) is
> to derive the transfer function of the filter you're trying to emulate and
> then use algebra to figure out where to put the various inputs and outputs
> and feedbacks in your own version of it.

Wasn't there some pretty asymmetric distortion going on in the SSM 2040?
I never really cared for the internal circuitry, so I'm not quite sure
what it was about.

Yuck, where is JH when you need him... :-(

Chris



From lanterma at ece.gatech.edu  Tue May 29 19:25:45 2012
From: lanterma at ece.gatech.edu (Lanterman, Aaron)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:25:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
 most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <CAEaByMSKL57M2ziP0JqKwKdtd8h_6tXPnPeL-JmQn-nhZJzEig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
	<0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>
	<CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<09439FF0-828A-45B7-AAFC-B4CC6EBF1984@ece.gatech.edu>
	<CAEaByMSKL57M2ziP0JqKwKdtd8h_6tXPnPeL-JmQn-nhZJzEig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B13D29C1-0058-4D72-A473-D2A6CFCCAAD7@ece.gatech.edu>


On May 29, 2012, at 4:52 AM, Neil Johnson wrote:

>> The way it forms a two-pole filter with variable "Q" is to cascade two usual first-order LP filters (for instance) and then feed the output back to the input. I can't seem to find my notes on it now, but I remember working out the transfer function. Changing the feedback, IIRC, doesn't give you a Q (as typically defined for a 2nd-order filter) that varies independently of the "fc" (usually called the "cutoff"), as in the case of a State Variable Filter or a Sallen-Key. The fc also changes. So there's a subtle difference in how it responds.
> 
> Sounds more like a biquad arrangement - in your analysis did you notice if the bandwidth remained constant as Fc was changed?

You're right, if you changed the cutoffs of the cell Q changed too. (Again, this is IIRC - I wish I could find my notes...)

- Aaron



From andy at cytomic.com  Wed May 30 12:11:36 2012
From: andy at cytomic.com (Andrew Simper)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 11:11:36 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] What would be THE best,
 most versatile VCF available on DIY community ?
In-Reply-To: <DBBFD7DB-20D6-4858-8725-DCF0C5A5FA48@electricdruid.net>
References: <36557.1338221283@oricom.ca>
	<0655C9BC-23B7-496D-8CCD-E28C482B3A32@electricdruid.net>
	<CAAxOnzYXZUh+P=snuSDc=YNvZ7LOJtnQ3-k_a_psSm2L5jvRsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<DBBFD7DB-20D6-4858-8725-DCF0C5A5FA48@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAAxOnzYFVMnOt-2oRAnhKyXTt6Z_Ath+aK=ZPDkLgtzg9TkeMA@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 May 2012 09:34, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 28 May 2012, at 18:19, Andrew Simper wrote:
>
> > It can be made from any ota core and provides "stronger" high pass and
> > band pass responses than the Xpander style summing of output taps.
>
> What do you mean by "stronger" here, Andrew?
>
> Is the Synthex filter stronger because the Xpander method requires an accurate addition to sum the LP and straight signal to get HP?
>
> Aren't the transfer functions the same otherwise? (for at least the modes in question; 12dB HP and 12dB BP)
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>

The transfer functions with resonance are different when summing the
taps of a 4 x one pole low pass cascade and summing those with
different weights than, especially for the four pole high pass, than
for having each section an individual low pass / high pass in the
cascade to form the filter. The resonance isn't as pronounced and also
when the filter is pushed into the non-linear region the high pass
achieved from summing taps sounds a bit thinner.

Here are some plots to show the difference in the linear case, the
resonance isn't above the passband most of the time so it doesn't
sounds as strong:

www.cytomic.com/files/dsp/cascade-hp4-vs-lp4hpxtaps.pdf

You can get some cool dual notch shapes by using the summing method, I
did this for a virtual synth product called Synth Squad, and then MOTU
ripped off the modes I came up with and even the names I used for
their product!

Andy


From profpep at hotmail.com  Wed May 30 13:51:14 2012
From: profpep at hotmail.com (Mike Pepper)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 12:51:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
References: <43622.1337970270@oricom.ca><6.2.1.2.2.20120525131415.023250f8@mail.comcast.net><003801cd3aae$750ab950$5f202bf0$@airmail.net><6.2.1.2.2.20120525154306.0233dae0@mail.comcast.net><4FC1352F.9010003@gjcp.net><6.2.1.2.2.20120526140912.02387610@mail.comcast.net>
	<99C9F131-1D12-4A7C-90AA-28564C739602@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <4D9DD7AE84D14CC1922487148BBA446D@DESK2>

> On May 26, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Ian Fritz wrote:
>
>> At 01:55 PM 5/26/2012, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
>>
>>> Pff, VCOs.  DCOs are much better.  I bet you can't even do arbitrary 
>>> waveforms, never mind exhibit repeatable tuning characteristics to 
>>>  >10ppm ;-)
>>
>> The Double Deka has a user drawn waveform, and is stable to better than 
>> 50 ppm/K.
>
> I remember feeling great joy in the electronic music class I took at Wash 
> U, oh, 20 years ago or whenever it was, when I figured out the ARP 2500 
> sequencer could be clocked at audio rates.
>
> Of course, I highly doubt it was stable to 50 ppm/K though. ;)
>
I remember doing the same with Tim Orr's 'Wireless World' design, (which I 
think had 6 steps, max). Again I think the stability was in the 'Parts per 
10,000' region.
I do like 'draw your won waveform idea. I used a multiplexed version in a 
sort of Organ I made whilst a student, now long lost, though due to costs I 
had 12 steps, one of which was fixed at zero, (for some reason, at the time, 
I thought it was good idea to start from zero).
Would Bucla's 'MARF' do the same thing,.
Sorry, now way off topic.....

Mike




From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Wed May 30 13:51:28 2012
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 12:51:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] JX-3P service queries
Message-ID: <4FC609C0.4050509@bugbrand.co.uk>

Hi all,

I got one off Ebay and some things appear to have happened during 
transit. I had a look yesterday, but reckon I'll either return the 
machine or take it to a regular tech - but I still thought I'd ask here 
if people have ever experienced these problems.

1) Patch Buttons 1-8 and their associated LEDs are non-functional - now, 
having checked the service manual a bit, I can understand why all 8 
would go at a time - but I did check inter-board connections (eg. SW SC 
1) and these appear good. Or perhaps IC34 (on the main board) has a 
problem. Anyone seen similar before?

2) Weird Bend -- the pitch stick has two strange things -- 1stly it 
bends up in both directions - sure that must be wrong? And then the 
range switch has no effect - I tested the switch with a DMM and it 
appears good.. So, again, anyone seen similar before?

Really keen to have a JX-3P but not so keen on mending or sorting tech 
repairs. Hmmm. Well, thanks for any help!
Cheers, Tom

-- 
BugBrand LTD
UK company No. 07199808
VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
BRISTOL BS1 3SB
United Kingdom
www.bugbrand.co.uk



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Wed May 30 14:34:47 2012
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 14:34:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] [AH] JX-3P service queries
In-Reply-To: <4FC609C0.4050509@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <4FC609C0.4050509@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4FC613E7.9020703@mnet-online.de>

Hello

> 1) Patch Buttons 1-8 and their associated LEDs are non-functional
Mine had that too. Check the solder joints on the panel pcb of the 
cables coming from the mainboard. Also check the continuity of the trace 
feeding the LEDs and buttons. I recently had a JX3P on the bench, were 
there was a hair crack on the pcb.I assume Cable SW SC0

> 2) Weird Bend -- the pitch stick has two strange things -- 1stly it
> bends up in both directions - sure that must be wrong? And then the
> range switch has no effect - I tested the switch with a DMM and it
> appears good.. So, again, anyone seen similar before?

This assumingly is related also to the same problem, but a diffent 
cable. The bender polarity switches via the same matrix.

Check also whether the hold pedal (not the hold button) and the LFO 
button do work - assumingly not. This is cable SW SC4

You find the service manual on my website.

Florian

-- 
http://fa.utfs.org/


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed May 30 15:42:22 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 09:42:22 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] test..
Message-ID: <32521.1338385342@oricom.ca>




 


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed May 30 15:45:04 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 09:45:04 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...more pictures..
Message-ID: <51036.1338385504@oricom.ca>


More pictures of my Moog 921B VCO clone made of
a modified version of the famous  MOTM300 UltraVCO.

http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/

Thanks for watching.
J-Pierre



 


From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Wed May 30 15:54:45 2012
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 21:54:45 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...more
	pictures..
In-Reply-To: <51036.1338385504@oricom.ca>
References: <51036.1338385504@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <B6A0290319DD42578BAB9C5EF8BA772C@galvanox01>

Boy, you sure do nice work, J-P!!!  (hail emoticon, hail emoticon). 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of 
> Jean-Pierre Desrochers
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:45 PM
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly 
> built...more pictures..
> 
> 
> More pictures of my Moog 921B VCO clone made of a modified 
> version of the famous  MOTM300 UltraVCO.
> 
> http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/
> 
> Thanks for watching.
> J-Pierre
> 
> 
> 
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com  Wed May 30 16:08:52 2012
From: neil.johnson97 at ntlworld.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 15:08:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...more
	pictures..
In-Reply-To: <51036.1338385504@oricom.ca>
References: <51036.1338385504@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <CAEaByMQXkdL5BZOJFJygb0TQ6BbxGQO9J-dJ5N7WjGgmnEWK6w@mail.gmail.com>

Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
> More pictures of my Moog 921B VCO clone made of
> a modified version of the famous ?MOTM300 UltraVCO.
>
> http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/

Nice!

Neil
-- 
Modules and more: http://www.cesyg.com
Homepage: http://www.njohnson.co.uk


From synthesizerdiy at gmail.com  Wed May 30 18:37:29 2012
From: synthesizerdiy at gmail.com (synth)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 11:37:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
In-Reply-To: <31873.1337965118@oricom.ca>
References: <31873.1337965118@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <77AB3945-82EC-4A97-9E78-2A65046F099E@gmail.com>

Can you share more about your metal work?  I would like to know the  
model of your punch and if you are bending the metal yourself.  If so,  
what type of metal bender are you using?  and finally, is a nice  
person setting with you putting a puzzle together to keep you company?

Thanks and very nice looking work




On May 25, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

>
> Hi list,
>
> I've just finished my fifth dotcom type module..
> It's a Moog 921B VCO clone made of
> a modified version of the famous  MOTM300 UltraVCO.
> This VCO is so stable.. it was the one I picked up as a choice
> for my 12 VCO modules.
> All the frontend circuitry has been modified to 'merge'
> easily with the front panel pot, rotary switch & jacks.
> For copyright reason some of the project files & schematics
> are not shown.
> I've built 12 of this module for a future 6 voices guitar interface  
> project.
> All the available files and specs are located here:
>
> http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/
>
> Feel free to ask any questions.
> This project took me around 2 years to finalize.
>
> Thanks for watching.
> J-Pierre
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From itsfatmike at gmail.com  Wed May 30 18:37:34 2012
From: itsfatmike at gmail.com (mike schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 12:37:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for MATRIX 12/ Xpander florescenct display.
In-Reply-To: <1337149791.92743.YahooMailRC@web181719.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>
	<4ae311992fe8b90f8b78bd1effbd70f1@bluemarble.net>
	<1F143DB2-BD3F-43D2-8F79-F21946118983@gmail.com>
	<1337149791.92743.YahooMailRC@web181719.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0644757B-53A3-4DD4-8A30-B544A8230AB1@gmail.com>

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I ended up going with little diode in the uk, as suggested by christophe. part works great, and was pretty cheap to boot. Fwiw, it had a mid 90s date code.

I have one Final issue with the Matrix, The 20th character on the top right display is out. every segment in that character is out. Any ideas? Does anyone have a replacement for the florescent display? I've swapped the driver ics around, in hopes that the problem would follow, but alas, it didnt.

Thanks in advance!

-Mike

From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 30 18:38:39 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:38:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...more
	pictures..
In-Reply-To: <B6A0290319DD42578BAB9C5EF8BA772C@galvanox01>
References: <51036.1338385504@oricom.ca>
	<B6A0290319DD42578BAB9C5EF8BA772C@galvanox01>
Message-ID: <94097D6B-FF12-408F-8BF6-5C0AFD3722B4@electricdruid.net>

Yeah, and he works to a high level of accuracy too ;)

"Dimensions: 1,91968503937008 x 8,9503937007874 inch,"

(from http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/Front_panel_design/M103B_MOTM300_UltraVCO.pdf)

On 30 May 2012, at 14:54, David G Dixon wrote:

> Boy, you sure do nice work, J-P!!!  (hail emoticon, hail emoticon). 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl 
>> [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at dropmix.xs4all.nl] On Behalf Of 
>> Jean-Pierre Desrochers
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:45 PM
>> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly 
>> built...more pictures..
>> 
>> 
>> More pictures of my Moog 921B VCO clone made of a modified 
>> version of the famous  MOTM300 UltraVCO.
>> 
>> http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/
>> 
>> Thanks for watching.
>> J-Pierre
>> 



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 30 19:08:48 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 18:08:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction" book
	- is it any good?
Message-ID: <8B33B945-C212-46B5-9975-15F14AA1EB3F@electricdruid.net>

Does anyone have a copy of:

Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction
by Delton T. Horn

It *sounds* like an interesting book, but I'd like a recommendation from someone before I go spending money on one. If it's rubbish, help me save my pennies.

Thanks,
Tom

From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed May 30 19:15:57 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 13:15:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...more
	pictures..
Message-ID: <30287.1338398157@oricom.ca>

 
Sorry Tom,

It's my front panel design software 
http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/frontdesigner.html
that generates these 'high level of accuracy' measures
at the bottom of each pages
whenever I do a PDF from my artwork..


 On Wed 30/05/12 13:38 , "Tom Wiltshire" tom at electricdruid.net sent:
> Yeah, and he works to a high level of accuracy too ;)
> 
> "Dimensions: 1,91968503937008 x 8,9503937007874 inch,"
> 




From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed May 30 19:29:30 2012
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 13:29:30 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...
Message-ID: <40115.1338398970@oricom.ca>

Thanks for your kind words..

> Can you share more about your metal work?  I would like to know the  
> model of your punch and if you are bending the metal yourself.

I do not bend the metal sheets myself.
I get them done cut and bent by a local metal works company at $4.00
for each 1U dotcom frontpanel (qty around 50).
As I stated in an earlier post:
I use a table press punch I bought at 
http://busybeetools.ca for around $100.00CAD
A friend of mine who is a machinist built me an adapter to insert
some punch bits with the correct diameter sizes for the most used holes like
leds, toggle switches, 1/4" jacks, Alpha pots, etc..
I just change the bit for the correct holes to punch. 

See the picture here:
http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M100_MIDI_Interface/Module_pictures/

Under the handle part there is a dark steel rectangular part followed by
a lower hexagonal part. These have been built to fit with the press actuator going down
and accept a punching bit underneath.
The desired bit is secured with an hex screw at the overall bottom.
No more unaligned drill holes..
JP







 On Wed 30/05/12 13:37 , synth synthesizerdiy at gmail.com sent:
> Can you share more about your metal work?  I would like to know the  
> model of your punch and if you are bending the metal yourself.  If so, 
> what type of metal bender are you using?  and finally, is a nice  
> person setting with you putting a puzzle together to keep you company?
> 
> Thanks and very nice looking work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On May 25, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I've just finished my fifth dotcom type
> module..> It's a Moog 921B VCO clone made of
> > a modified version of the famous  MOTM300
> UltraVCO.> This VCO is so stable.. it was the one I picked
> up as a choice> for my 12 VCO modules.
> > All the frontend circuitry has been modified to
> 'merge'> easily with the front panel pot, rotary switch
> & jacks.> For copyright reason some of the project files
> & schematics> are not shown.
> > I've built 12 of this module for a future 6
> voices guitar interface  > project.
> > All the available files and specs are located
> here:>
> > http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M103B_UltraVCO/
> >
> > Feel free to ask any questions.
> > This project took me around 2 years to
> finalize.>
> > Thanks for watching.
> > J-Pierre
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________> Synth-diy mailing list
> > S
> ynth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> 


From dlmanley at sonic.net  Wed May 30 20:44:01 2012
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 11:44:01 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction"
 book	- is it any good?
Message-ID: <1d4m0wmjvy10gmgf4nqk90bs.1338403086120@email.android.com>

Hi Tom, pretty sure I have it - I bought a number of his books at the same time and wasn't impressed with any of them.  I can provide more details when I get home tonight.

-Dave

-------- Original Message --------
 From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
 Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 10:08 AM
 To: synthdiy diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
 CC: 
 Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction" book	- is it any good?

>Does anyone have a copy of:
>
>Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction
>by Delton T. Horn
>
>It *sounds* like an interesting book, but I'd like a recommendation from someone before I go spending money on one. If it's rubbish, help me save my pennies.
>
>Thanks,
>Tom
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May 30 22:26:54 2012
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 21:26:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] My 12 x Moog 921B VCO clones finaly built...more
	pictures..
In-Reply-To: <30287.1338398157@oricom.ca>
References: <30287.1338398157@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <E3BAEB1C-DB88-4138-9384-B3762A908403@electricdruid.net>

I figured it was something like that.

Working to 100 trillionths of an inch is probably excessive!

Reminds me of the old joke about a bloke interviewing machinists. He asks each of them what accuracy they work to. The first one says "1/1000th of an inch". The second one says "1/10000 of an inch". The third one says "I can do better than either of those two. My work's all spot on!"

T.


On 30 May 2012, at 18:15, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

> 
> Sorry Tom,
> 
> It's my front panel design software 
> http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/frontdesigner.html
> that generates these 'high level of accuracy' measures
> at the bottom of each pages
> whenever I do a PDF from my artwork..
> 
> 
> On Wed 30/05/12 13:38 , "Tom Wiltshire" tom at electricdruid.net sent:
>> Yeah, and he works to a high level of accuracy too ;)
>> 
>> "Dimensions: 1,91968503937008 x 8,9503937007874 inch,"
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From stewpye at optusnet.com.au  Wed May 30 22:46:12 2012
From: stewpye at optusnet.com.au (Stewart Pye)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 06:46:12 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction"
 book - is it any good?
In-Reply-To: <8B33B945-C212-46B5-9975-15F14AA1EB3F@electricdruid.net>
References: <8B33B945-C212-46B5-9975-15F14AA1EB3F@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <4FC68714.1090400@optusnet.com.au>

Hi Tom,

In my opinion it's not a good book. It was at my local library in the 
days before the internet. A lot of the badly drawn circuits are just 
noise makers or random voltage generators. It's been over 15 years but 
when I think of that book I think "bird chirp" and "steam train". I'm 
pretty sure he didn't test all the circuits either.

The library also had "Build a Better Music Synthesizer" by Thomas Henry, 
which was a good book but used obsolete parts like CEM and SSM chips.

Regards,
Stewart.

On 5/31/2012 3:08 AM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> Does anyone have a copy of:
>
> Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design&  Construction
> by Delton T. Horn
>
> It *sounds* like an interesting book, but I'd like a recommendation from someone before I go spending money on one. If it's rubbish, help me save my pennies.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From kris92 at me.com  Wed May 30 22:53:35 2012
From: kris92 at me.com (Christophe Janot)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 22:53:35 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for MATRIX 12/ Xpander florescenct display.
In-Reply-To: <0644757B-53A3-4DD4-8A30-B544A8230AB1@gmail.com>
References: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>
	<4ae311992fe8b90f8b78bd1effbd70f1@bluemarble.net>
	<1F143DB2-BD3F-43D2-8F79-F21946118983@gmail.com>
	<1337149791.92743.YahooMailRC@web181719.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<0644757B-53A3-4DD4-8A30-B544A8230AB1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6ECCF1C3-1D9C-4F66-A5C1-EA3151FE9246@me.com>

Hi Mike !

Until now, the only solution is this kit : http://www.lenham.clara.net/sound/market.html It is quite expensive since you have to replace the 3 displays. I'm not sure this kit is already available. I'm studying a similar product, but I'm not close to the solution ;-)

Regards,

Christophe

Le 30 mai 2012 ? 18:37, mike schmidt a ?crit :

> Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I ended up going with little diode in the uk, as suggested by christophe. part works great, and was pretty cheap to boot. Fwiw, it had a mid 90s date code.
> 
> I have one Final issue with the Matrix, The 20th character on the top right display is out. every segment in that character is out. Any ideas? Does anyone have a replacement for the florescent display? I've swapped the driver ics around, in hopes that the problem would follow, but alas, it didnt.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> -Mike
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From synthnerd at eircom.net  Wed May 30 23:35:59 2012
From: synthnerd at eircom.net (John Henson)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 22:35:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for MATRIX 12 information
In-Reply-To: <6ECCF1C3-1D9C-4F66-A5C1-EA3151FE9246@me.com>
References: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>
	<4ae311992fe8b90f8b78bd1effbd70f1@bluemarble.net>
	<1F143DB2-BD3F-43D2-8F79-F21946118983@gmail.com>
	<1337149791.92743.YahooMailRC@web181719.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<0644757B-53A3-4DD4-8A30-B544A8230AB1@gmail.com>
	<6ECCF1C3-1D9C-4F66-A5C1-EA3151FE9246@me.com>
Message-ID: <4FC692BF.8040803@eircom.net>

Hi everyone,
yesterday one of Ireland's only Matrix 12's arrived in for service.
Most of it is ok, but there is a PSU issue where the switch-mode 
frequency is audible for an hour
after switch on, I know it's supposed to be 30kHz, and it needs 
attention but for the time being the
voltages are of no major concern, all well within Spec.
I have the Xpander service guide but not the Matrix 12, so my question 
is probably a little silly!
The two 6 voice modules that sit one above the other, which card is 1-6 
and which is 7-12.
The two boards are different revisions, as this Matrix 12 is no. 9, the 
lower of the new boards is much
newer, and I would guess that at some point the whole 6 voice board was 
replaced, the engineering
change orders from the original Xpander are all implemented on the pcb 
of the newer module.
The problem I'm having is random tuning failures every time I tune, but 
voices 7-12 seem to be the
worst, failing more completely more often. The tuning comparator 
circuitry is very different between the
two boards, with a lot of components tack-soldered around the newer one.
Anyone out there have the service manual and/or the ECO's for the Matrix 12.

Regards,
John.
> Hi Mike !
>
> Until now, the only solution is this kit : http://www.lenham.clara.net/sound/market.html It is quite expensive since you have to replace the 3 displays. I'm not sure this kit is already available. I'm studying a similar product, but I'm not close to the solution ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Christophe
>
> Le 30 mai 2012 ? 18:37, mike schmidt a ?crit :
>
>> Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I ended up going with little diode in the uk, as suggested by christophe. part works great, and was pretty cheap to boot. Fwiw, it had a mid 90s date code.
>>
>> I have one Final issue with the Matrix, The 20th character on the top right display is out. every segment in that character is out. Any ideas? Does anyone have a replacement for the florescent display? I've swapped the driver ics around, in hopes that the problem would follow, but alas, it didnt.
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> -Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2425/5033 - Release Date: 05/30/12
>
>
>



From kris92 at me.com  Thu May 31 00:18:11 2012
From: kris92 at me.com (Christophe Janot)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 00:18:11 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for MATRIX 12 information
In-Reply-To: <4FC692BF.8040803@eircom.net>
References: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>
	<4ae311992fe8b90f8b78bd1effbd70f1@bluemarble.net>
	<1F143DB2-BD3F-43D2-8F79-F21946118983@gmail.com>
	<1337149791.92743.YahooMailRC@web181719.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<0644757B-53A3-4DD4-8A30-B544A8230AB1@gmail.com>
	<6ECCF1C3-1D9C-4F66-A5C1-EA3151FE9246@me.com>
	<4FC692BF.8040803@eircom.net>
Message-ID: <290F05DB-6A0C-4413-8DE3-E473F03E6C92@me.com>

Unfortunately, I didn't saw any trace of the Matrix 12 Service Manual on the w3.
About the PSU, the service manual scan available on the net is not very readable. I suppose you have this one...
About the 1-6, 7-12 identification, I think you had just to unplug one of them. The auto-test function should help you to identify the missing one. Normally, the board identification is made with a strap near the U901 chip near the 40pins connector of the voice board. On board 1-6, the strap 'may' be connected to pin 6 of the connector. Board 7-12 'may' be connected to pin 5.

Regards,

Christophe

Le 30 mai 2012 ? 23:35, John Henson a ?crit :

> Hi everyone,
> yesterday one of Ireland's only Matrix 12's arrived in for service.
> Most of it is ok, but there is a PSU issue where the switch-mode frequency is audible for an hour
> after switch on, I know it's supposed to be 30kHz, and it needs attention but for the time being the
> voltages are of no major concern, all well within Spec.
> I have the Xpander service guide but not the Matrix 12, so my question is probably a little silly!
> The two 6 voice modules that sit one above the other, which card is 1-6 and which is 7-12.
> The two boards are different revisions, as this Matrix 12 is no. 9, the lower of the new boards is much
> newer, and I would guess that at some point the whole 6 voice board was replaced, the engineering
> change orders from the original Xpander are all implemented on the pcb of the newer module.
> The problem I'm having is random tuning failures every time I tune, but voices 7-12 seem to be the
> worst, failing more completely more often. The tuning comparator circuitry is very different between the
> two boards, with a lot of components tack-soldered around the newer one.
> Anyone out there have the service manual and/or the ECO's for the Matrix 12.
> 
> Regards,
> John.
>> Hi Mike !
>> 
>> Until now, the only solution is this kit : http://www.lenham.clara.net/sound/market.html It is quite expensive since you have to replace the 3 displays. I'm not sure this kit is already available. I'm studying a similar product, but I'm not close to the solution ;-)
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Christophe
>> 
>> Le 30 mai 2012 ? 18:37, mike schmidt a ?crit :
>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I ended up going with little diode in the uk, as suggested by christophe. part works great, and was pretty cheap to boot. Fwiw, it had a mid 90s date code.
>>> 
>>> I have one Final issue with the Matrix, The 20th character on the top right display is out. every segment in that character is out. Any ideas? Does anyone have a replacement for the florescent display? I've swapped the driver ics around, in hopes that the problem would follow, but alas, it didnt.
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>> 
>>> -Mike
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2425/5033 - Release Date: 05/30/12
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From dougt55 at yahoo.com  Thu May 31 00:41:03 2012
From: dougt55 at yahoo.com (Doug Terrebonne)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 15:41:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for MATRIX 12 information
In-Reply-To: <4FC692BF.8040803@eircom.net>
Message-ID: <1338417663.95280.YahooMailClassic@web181717.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The top board should be voices 7-12. Kevin has some A bunch of Oberheim ECOs on his synthfool site, not sure if any are M-12 though.

Doug 
synthparts.com

--- On Wed, 5/30/12, John Henson <synthnerd at eircom.net> wrote:

> From: John Henson <synthnerd at eircom.net>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Looking for MATRIX 12 information
> To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2012, 2:35 PM
> Hi everyone,
> yesterday one of Ireland's only Matrix 12's arrived in for
> service.
> Most of it is ok, but there is a PSU issue where the
> switch-mode 
> frequency is audible for an hour
> after switch on, I know it's supposed to be 30kHz, and it
> needs 
> attention but for the time being the
> voltages are of no major concern, all well within Spec.
> I have the Xpander service guide but not the Matrix 12, so
> my question 
> is probably a little silly!
> The two 6 voice modules that sit one above the other, which
> card is 1-6 
> and which is 7-12.
> The two boards are different revisions, as this Matrix 12 is
> no. 9, the 
> lower of the new boards is much
> newer, and I would guess that at some point the whole 6
> voice board was 
> replaced, the engineering
> change orders from the original Xpander are all implemented
> on the pcb 
> of the newer module.
> The problem I'm having is random tuning failures every time
> I tune, but 
> voices 7-12 seem to be the
> worst, failing more completely more often. The tuning
> comparator 
> circuitry is very different between the
> two boards, with a lot of components tack-soldered around
> the newer one.
> Anyone out there have the service manual and/or the ECO's
> for the Matrix 12.
> 
> Regards,
> John.
> > Hi Mike !
> >
> > Until now, the only solution is this kit : http://www.lenham.clara.net/sound/market.html It is
> quite expensive since you have to replace the 3 displays.
> I'm not sure this kit is already available. I'm studying a
> similar product, but I'm not close to the solution ;-)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Christophe
> >
> > Le 30 mai 2012 ? 18:37, mike schmidt a ?crit :
> >
> >> Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I ended up
> going with little diode in the uk, as suggested by
> christophe. part works great, and was pretty cheap to boot.
> Fwiw, it had a mid 90s date code.
> >>
> >> I have one Final issue with the Matrix, The 20th
> character on the top right display is out. every segment in
> that character is out. Any ideas? Does anyone have a
> replacement for the florescent display? I've swapped the
> driver ics around, in hopes that the problem would follow,
> but alas, it didnt.
> >> Thanks in advance!
> >>
> >> -Mike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> >> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> > http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2425/5033 -
> Release Date: 05/30/12
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From jays at aracnet.com  Thu May 31 01:35:37 2012
From: jays at aracnet.com (jays at aracnet.com)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 16:35:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for MATRIX 12 information
In-Reply-To: <4FC692BF.8040803@eircom.net>
References: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>
	<4ae311992fe8b90f8b78bd1effbd70f1@bluemarble.net>
	<1F143DB2-BD3F-43D2-8F79-F21946118983@gmail.com>
	<1337149791.92743.YahooMailRC@web181719.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<0644757B-53A3-4DD4-8A30-B544A8230AB1@gmail.com>
	<6ECCF1C3-1D9C-4F66-A5C1-EA3151FE9246@me.com>
	<4FC692BF.8040803@eircom.net>
Message-ID: <b298bcf6dd799fe324c7e4ffa4604a26@mail.spiritone.com>

I've had a number of Obie Matrix units. All have had issues with chips
in sockets. Most of the time I've been able to 'fix' them by reseating
the chips and connectors. Except for the M6 keyboard which has the
boards facing downwards. In that case the processor fell out of the
socket and reinserting it fixed it. Be careful though. All my units had
leaf type pins in the chip sockets. If you aren't careful you can pull a
socket pin out or bend a chip lead.

I'd reseat the VCO and sample and hold chips and see what happens.

Good luck.
Jay S.


On Wed, 30 May 2012 22:35:59 +0100, John Henson <synthnerd at eircom.net>
wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> yesterday one of Ireland's only Matrix 12's arrived in for service.
> Most of it is ok, but there is a PSU issue where the switch-mode
> frequency is audible for an hour
> after switch on, I know it's supposed to be 30kHz, and it needs
> attention but for the time being the
> voltages are of no major concern, all well within Spec.
> I have the Xpander service guide but not the Matrix 12, so my
> question is probably a little silly!
> The two 6 voice modules that sit one above the other, which card is
> 1-6 and which is 7-12.
> The two boards are different revisions, as this Matrix 12 is no. 9,
> the lower of the new boards is much
> newer, and I would guess that at some point the whole 6 voice board
> was replaced, the engineering
> change orders from the original Xpander are all implemented on the
> pcb of the newer module.
> The problem I'm having is random tuning failures every time I tune,
> but voices 7-12 seem to be the
> worst, failing more completely more often. The tuning comparator
> circuitry is very different between the
> two boards, with a lot of components tack-soldered around the newer one.
> Anyone out there have the service manual and/or the ECO's for the Matrix 12.
> 
> Regards,
> John.
>> Hi Mike !
>>
>> Until now, the only solution is this kit : http://www.lenham.clara.net/sound/market.html It is quite expensive since you have to replace the 3 displays. I'm not sure this kit is already available. I'm studying a similar product, but I'm not close to the solution ;-)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Christophe
>>
>> Le 30 mai 2012 ? 18:37, mike schmidt a ?crit :
>>
>>> Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I ended up going with little diode in the uk, as suggested by christophe. part works great, and was pretty cheap to boot. Fwiw, it had a mid 90s date code.
>>>
>>> I have one Final issue with the Matrix, The 20th character on the top right display is out. every segment in that character is out. Any ideas? Does anyone have a replacement for the florescent display? I've swapped the driver ics around, in hopes that the problem would follow, but alas, it didnt.
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> -Mike
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2425/5033 - Release Date: 05/30/12
>>
>>
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu May 31 02:21:42 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (dan snazelle)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 20:21:42 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction"
	book - is it any good?
In-Reply-To: <4FC68714.1090400@optusnet.com.au>
References: <8B33B945-C212-46B5-9975-15F14AA1EB3F@electricdruid.net>
	<4FC68714.1090400@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1676B75BA8C9FB0EF7383C0C80B0@phx.gbl>

a much more worthwhile book is "the technique of electronic music"by wells








On May 30, 2012, at 4:46 PM, Stewart Pye wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
> In my opinion it's not a good book. It was at my local library in the days before the internet. A lot of the badly drawn circuits are just noise makers or random voltage generators. It's been over 15 years but when I think of that book I think "bird chirp" and "steam train". I'm pretty sure he didn't test all the circuits either.
> 
> The library also had "Build a Better Music Synthesizer" by Thomas Henry, which was a good book but used obsolete parts like CEM and SSM chips.
> 
> Regards,
> Stewart.
> 
> On 5/31/2012 3:08 AM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>> Does anyone have a copy of:
>> 
>> Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design&  Construction
>> by Delton T. Horn
>> 
>> It *sounds* like an interesting book, but I'd like a recommendation from someone before I go spending money on one. If it's rubbish, help me save my pennies.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Tom
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 



From loscha at gmail.com  Thu May 31 02:39:59 2012
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 10:39:59 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] delton t horn synth book
Message-ID: <CAA25cvc8zyekLya8v4gp6Dm20ec7nJCqhkFarpoCLjxEet+x8w@mail.gmail.com>

hey all

I've got sort of beat up copies of a few of his books
I'll try and despine and scan them in the next few weeks, and will
publicize here.

they're not woth much money, good for high school projects perhaps.

/Edward


From ebrombaugh1 at cox.net  Thu May 31 02:40:58 2012
From: ebrombaugh1 at cox.net (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:40:58 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction"
 book - is it any good?
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP1676B75BA8C9FB0EF7383C0C80B0@phx.gbl>
References: <8B33B945-C212-46B5-9975-15F14AA1EB3F@electricdruid.net>	<4FC68714.1090400@optusnet.com.au>
	<BLU0-SMTP1676B75BA8C9FB0EF7383C0C80B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4FC6BE1A.6020102@cox.net>

On 05/30/2012 05:21 PM, dan snazelle wrote:
> a much more worthwhile book is "the technique of electronic music"by wells

Edmund Wells, who also wrote "David Coperfield" and "Grate Expectations"? ;)

Eric


From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Thu May 31 02:46:48 2012
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (KA4HJH)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 20:46:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction"
 book	- is it any good?
In-Reply-To: <1d4m0wmjvy10gmgf4nqk90bs.1338403086120@email.android.com>
References: <1d4m0wmjvy10gmgf4nqk90bs.1338403086120@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805cbec6d8b025b@[192.168.1.70]>

All of the books by Horn that I have were published by Tab. Most of their
books are like bad versions of the DIY instructions from Information
Unlimited, and that's saying something. They're famous for having the same
guy right the same book three or four times, with none of the project
instructions really complete and/or requiring some sort of expensive
unobtanium. I got a whole pile of them back in late Eighties for cents on
the dollar and they were all crap.

Maybe they've improved in the last twenty years but the only really good
Tab book I've ever seen was about oxyacetylene welding.

>Hi Tom, pretty sure I have it - I bought a number of his books at the same
>time and wasn't impressed with any of them.  I can provide more details
>when I get home tonight.
>
>-Dave
>
>-------- Original Message --------
> From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 10:08 AM
> To: synthdiy diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> CC:
> Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction"
>book	- is it any good?
>
>>Does anyone have a copy of:
>>
>>Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction
>>by Delton T. Horn
>>
>>It *sounds* like an interesting book, but I'd like a recommendation from
>>someone before I go spending money on one. If it's rubbish, help me save
>>my pennies.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Tom

-- 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"


From loscha at gmail.com  Thu May 31 02:47:32 2012
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 10:47:32 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] delton t horn synth book
Message-ID: <CAA25cve3babi6VbfvABrfy3zBS5TUg4EsLqz06EOj_HsYns_xA@mail.gmail.com>

hey all

I've got sort of beat up copies of a few of his books
I'll try and despine and scan them in the next few weeks, and will
publicize here.

they're not woth much money, good for high school projects perhaps.

/Edward


From subjectivity at hotmail.com  Thu May 31 05:32:54 2012
From: subjectivity at hotmail.com (Dan Snazelle)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 23:32:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction"
	book - is it any good?
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP1676B75BA8C9FB0EF7383C0C80B0@phx.gbl>
References: <8B33B945-C212-46B5-9975-15F14AA1EB3F@electricdruid.net>
	<4FC68714.1090400@optusnet.com.au>
	<BLU0-SMTP1676B75BA8C9FB0EF7383C0C80B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP11505A31BD3C1265528FA93C80B0@phx.gbl>

Thomas h wells

Sent from my iPhone

On May 30, 2012, at 8:21 PM, dan snazelle <subjectivity at hotmail.com> wrote:

> a much more worthwhile book is "the technique of electronic music"by wells
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On May 30, 2012, at 4:46 PM, Stewart Pye wrote:
> 
>> Hi Tom,
>> 
>> In my opinion it's not a good book. It was at my local library in the days before the internet. A lot of the badly drawn circuits are just noise makers or random voltage generators. It's been over 15 years but when I think of that book I think "bird chirp" and "steam train". I'm pretty sure he didn't test all the circuits either.
>> 
>> The library also had "Build a Better Music Synthesizer" by Thomas Henry, which was a good book but used obsolete parts like CEM and SSM chips.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Stewart.
>> 
>> On 5/31/2012 3:08 AM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
>>> Does anyone have a copy of:
>>> 
>>> Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design&  Construction
>>> by Delton T. Horn
>>> 
>>> It *sounds* like an interesting book, but I'd like a recommendation from someone before I go spending money on one. If it's rubbish, help me save my pennies.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tom
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu May 31 05:51:14 2012
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 21:51:14 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Is this a three pin cap or ceramic resonator?
Message-ID: <4FC6EAB2.8030106@imt.net>

Strangely I've never dealt with this particular type of device before.  
Someone drove a screw through the circuit board on a Yamaha CVP20 
clavinova which..I dunno It's just a late 80's digital junk piece but 
they did such a cool looking case on it and it feels good so I decided 
to wire the freaking board back together... 6 hours later or 
whatever...I'm down to the region right where the screw went through.  
They slightly cracked a device right there.  It's near a crystal that 
has the standard two 22pf capacitors of the day.  So it's not part of 
*that* circuit anyway.  There's a quad pack under the board nearby too.. 
anyway I haven't even traced yet but I'm wondering if anyone can just 
tell me....from my description what this is.

1) It is a ceramic package with larger dimensions near where the wires 
go in basically.  It says 101 on it as though to indicate 100pf
2) It measures shorted on the outer pins and 100pf to the center pin.

Now they smelled something when it happened I think so I'm not sure that 
it didn't internally short then. It has a crack though that is from 
stress obviously as that pin was part of what was being displaced when 
the screw went in.  I see no signs of fire coming out of it per set :-)

THE PROBLEM WITH THE SERVICE MANUAL...is they don't even SHOW this 
device as existing either on the visual OR in the schematic that I can 
see!  All the resistors are there but this thing is strangely *absent* 
in the sm yamaha has on the servicer's site.

Any help from anyone who is very familiar with this type of device 
appreciated.  Looking it seems ceramic resonators usually have different 
markings...

-- 
Check out sounddoctorin.com for songs, a studio tour, help
repairing old synthesizers and parts or thought provoking
articles that could help make your eternity!



From pfperry at melbpc.org.au  Thu May 31 06:49:09 2012
From: pfperry at melbpc.org.au (Paul Perry)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 14:49:09 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Is this a three pin cap or ceramic resonator?
References: <4FC6EAB2.8030106@imt.net>
Message-ID: <75D93303423E428ABD34F2E6CE08462A@ownerf0d9273f5>

Bob, I have seen RF chokes that looked like that.
Two coils with a cap to ground.
If intact, it would measure like you say.
Maybe it was added at some stage to iron out some digital hash.

paul perry Melbourne Australia

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Weigel" Subject: [sdiy] Is this a three pin cap or ceramic 
resonator?


> Strangely I've never dealt with this particular type of device before.
> Someone drove a screw through the circuit board on a Yamaha CVP20
> clavinova which..I dunno It's just a late 80's digital junk piece but
> they did such a cool looking case on it and it feels good so I decided
> to wire the freaking board back together... 6 hours later or
> whatever...I'm down to the region right where the screw went through.
> They slightly cracked a device right there.  It's near a crystal that
> has the standard two 22pf capacitors of the day.  So it's not part of
> *that* circuit anyway.  There's a quad pack under the board nearby too..
> anyway I haven't even traced yet but I'm wondering if anyone can just
> tell me....from my description what this is.
>
> 1) It is a ceramic package with larger dimensions near where the wires
> go in basically.  It says 101 on it as though to indicate 100pf
> 2) It measures shorted on the outer pins and 100pf to the center pin.
>
> Now they smelled something when it happened I think so I'm not sure that
> it didn't internally short then. It has a crack though that is from
> stress obviously as that pin was part of what was being displaced when
> the screw went in.  I see no signs of fire coming out of it per set :-)
>
> THE PROBLEM WITH THE SERVICE MANUAL...is they don't even SHOW this
> device as existing either on the visual OR in the schematic that I can
> see!  All the resistors are there but this thing is strangely *absent*
> in the sm yamaha has on the servicer's site.
>
> Any help from anyone who is very familiar with this type of device
> appreciated.  Looking it seems ceramic resonators usually have different
> markings...
>
> -- 
> Check out sounddoctorin.com for songs, a studio tour, help
> repairing old synthesizers and parts or thought provoking
> articles that could help make your eternity!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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04:34:00



From dlmanley at sonic.net  Thu May 31 08:41:56 2012
From: dlmanley at sonic.net (Dave Manley)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 23:41:56 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction"
 book	- is it any good?
Message-ID: <lgrm335j2sjs2fnvafxgnqwq.1338446351214@email.android.com>

After looking at the book it's not as bad as i remembered but still wouldn't recommend it.  There's much better info on the web, starting with your own set of pages as an example.

-Dave

-------- Original Message --------
 From: Dave Manley <dlmanley at sonic.net>
 Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 11:44 AM
 To: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>; synthdiy diy	 <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
 CC: 
 Subject: Re: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction" book	- is it any good?

>Hi Tom, pretty sure I have it - I bought a number of his books at the same time and wasn't impressed with any of them.  I can provide more details when I get home tonight.
>
>-Dave
>
>-------- Original Message --------
> From: Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 10:08 AM
> To: synthdiy diy <synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> CC: 
> Subject: [sdiy] "Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction" book	- is it any good?
>
>>Does anyone have a copy of:
>>
>>Music Synthesizers: A Manual of Design & Construction
>>by Delton T. Horn
>>
>>It *sounds* like an interesting book, but I'd like a recommendation from someone before I go spending money on one. If it's rubbish, help me save my pennies.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Tom
>>_______________________________________________
>>Synth-diy mailing list
>>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
>http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

From goaqihai at yahoo.co.uk  Thu May 31 09:17:05 2012
From: goaqihai at yahoo.co.uk (ganesha)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 08:17:05 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] newbie question: Adding LED to JH Sample & hold schematic
In-Reply-To: <1337868566.43029.YahooMailNeo@web171501.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<1337868566.43029.YahooMailNeo@web171501.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1338448625.79072.YahooMailNeo@web171504.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I didn't get any replies to this question.
Is it more complicated than it looks at first sight? 

Can someone perhaps point me in the right direction?


Thanks



----- Original Message -----
From: ganesha <goaqihai at yahoo.co.uk>
To: Synth-DIY DIY <Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2012, 16:09
Subject: [sdiy] newbie question: Adding LED to JH Sample & hold schematic

Hi,

I'm building the JH Synthi Sample & Hold.
http://www.jhaible.de/tonline_stuff/jh_sc_shg.gif
Everything works fine but I'd like to add a LED to have some visual feedback of the clock rate if the internal clock is used (timepot on the left), but also if an external clock is used (in the schematic on the right "from osc 3 pulse").
So I'm guessing the LED should be connected somewhere in the path going to the amp bias input of the OTA at the top of the schematic.
But what is the correct way to add the LED? I want to be sure the circuit keeps working and that the LED doesn't get too much current.

Thanks!

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Thu May 31 09:53:16 2012
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 02:53:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] newbie question: Adding LED to JH Sample & hold schematic
In-Reply-To: <1338448625.79072.YahooMailNeo@web171504.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<1337868566.43029.YahooMailNeo@web171501.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
	<1338448625.79072.YahooMailNeo@web171504.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4FC7236C.5050502@ix.netcom.com>



On 5/31/2012 2:17 AM, ganesha wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I didn't get any replies to this question.
> Is it more complicated than it looks at first sight?
>
> Can someone perhaps point me in the right direction?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>

Try this:

Since the voltage on Iabc (pin 5) of the sampling 3080 will at or very 
near V- (on pin 4) when off (in the "hold" state), you could use a 
comparator to monitor this for any rise above V- (say V- + 0.5V) and 
drive an LED.
Any current turning on that 3080 will show a voltage there of about a 
diode (Vbe) drop above V-.
Make sure the input impedance of the comparator is high enough not to 
load the small currents driving the 3080.

Just a thought...

- Oren

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ganesha<goaqihai at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: Synth-DIY DIY<Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2012, 16:09
> Subject: [sdiy] newbie question: Adding LED to JH Sample&  hold schematic
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm building the JH Synthi Sample&  Hold.
> http://www.jhaible.de/tonline_stuff/jh_sc_shg.gif
> Everything works fine but I'd like to add a LED to have some visual feedback of the clock rate if the internal clock is used (timepot on the left), but also if an external clock is used (in the schematic on the right "from osc 3 pulse").
> So I'm guessing the LED should be connected somewhere in the path going to the amp bias input of the OTA at the top of the schematic.
> But what is the correct way to add the LED? I want to be sure the circuit keeps working and that the LED doesn't get too much current.
>
> Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From oakleylist at btinternet.com  Thu May 31 09:57:02 2012
From: oakleylist at btinternet.com (Oakley Sound)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 08:57:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] What I do with my synths...
Message-ID: <4FC7244E.1080703@btinternet.com>

I've got a new album out.

Now available to listen (for free) or download (for three quid) from 
Bandcamp:

http://takla-makan.bandcamp.com/album/timorianne

Lots of homemade analogue content along with the occasional soft synth 
or two.

Tony

www.oakleysound.com


From ungleichklang at gmail.com  Thu May 31 10:20:02 2012
From: ungleichklang at gmail.com (Sascha Schneider)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 10:20:02 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] What I do with my synths...
In-Reply-To: <4FC7244E.1080703@btinternet.com>
References: <4FC7244E.1080703@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CACMoFbpe7SF2x2P5uS9ypBgAfoOjbp4CJhC-7yc8jdkSmseGWw@mail.gmail.com>

woooww, nice :)

Sascha

2012/5/31 Oakley Sound <oakleylist at btinternet.com>:
> I've got a new album out.
>
> Now available to listen (for free) or download (for three quid) from
> Bandcamp:
>
> http://takla-makan.bandcamp.com/album/timorianne
>
> Lots of homemade analogue content along with the occasional soft synth or
> two.
>
> Tony
>
> www.oakleysound.com
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



-- 
,Ungleichklang`
(als Bezeichnung f?r Intervalle von ungleicher Tonh?he mit Ausnahme
der gleichklingenden Oktave)
(as term that designates intervals of unequal pitches with exception
of the equal-sounding octave)
(terme d?signant des intervalles form?s entre des sons de hauteur
diff?rente ? l?exception de l?octave form?e par ?galit? de son)


From sounddoctorin at imt.net  Thu May 31 10:37:46 2012
From: sounddoctorin at imt.net (Bob Weigel)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 02:37:46 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] What I do with my synths...
In-Reply-To: <4FC7244E.1080703@btinternet.com>
References: <4FC7244E.1080703@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4FC72DDA.6090504@imt.net>

On 5/31/2012 1:57 AM, Oakley Sound wrote:
> I've got a new album out.
>
> Now available to listen (for free) or download (for three quid) from 
> Bandcamp:
>
> http://takla-makan.bandcamp.com/album/timorianne
>
> Lots of homemade analogue content along with the occasional soft synth 
> or two.
>
> Tony
>
> www.oakleysound.com
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
sounds awesome!

-- 
Check out sounddoctorin.com for songs, a studio tour, help
repairing old synthesizers and parts or thought provoking
articles that could help make your eternity!



From matt at smiffytech.com  Thu May 31 11:55:43 2012
From: matt at smiffytech.com (Matthew Smith)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 19:25:43 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] What I do with my synths...
In-Reply-To: <4FC7244E.1080703@btinternet.com>
References: <4FC7244E.1080703@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4FC7401F.7000007@smiffytech.com>

Quoth Oakley Sound at 31/05/12 17:27...
> I've got a new album out.
>
> Now available to listen (for free) or download (for three quid) from
> Bandcamp:
>
> http://takla-makan.bandcamp.com/album/timorianne
>
> Lots of homemade analogue content along with the occasional soft synth
> or two.

Excellent! Thanks, Tony; will update my collection once I figure the 
best way to transfer it all to my phone. Think I might have to pull out 
the SD card. Oh, the wonders of modern technology!

Cheers

M

-- 
Matthew Smith

Business: http://www.smiffytech.com
Blog:     http://www.smiffysplace.com
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Flickr:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/msmiffy
Twitter:  http://twitter.com/smiffy

ABN 16 391 203 815


From goaqihai at yahoo.co.uk  Thu May 31 16:13:53 2012
From: goaqihai at yahoo.co.uk (ganesha)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 15:13:53 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [sdiy] newbie question: Adding LED to JH Sample & hold schematic
In-Reply-To: <4FC7236C.5050502@ix.netcom.com>
References: <4FB376BD.40909@bugbrand.co.uk>
	<1337868566.43029.YahooMailNeo@web171501.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
	<1338448625.79072.YahooMailNeo@web171504.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
	<4FC7236C.5050502@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <1338473633.76872.YahooMailNeo@web171506.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Thanks!



----- Original Message -----
From: Oren Leavitt <obl64 at ix.netcom.com>
To: synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, 31 May 2012, 9:53
Subject: Re: [sdiy] newbie question: Adding LED to JH Sample & hold schematic




Try this:

Since the voltage on Iabc (pin 5) of the sampling 3080 will at or very 
near V- (on pin 4) when off (in the "hold" state), you could use a 
comparator to monitor this for any rise above V- (say V- + 0.5V) and 
drive an LED.
Any current turning on that 3080 will show a voltage there of about a 
diode (Vbe) drop above V-.
Make sure the input impedance of the comparator is high enough not to 
load the small currents driving the 3080.

Just a thought...

- Oren

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ganesha<goaqihai at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: Synth-DIY DIY<Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl>
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2012, 16:09
> Subject: [sdiy] newbie question: Adding LED to JH Sample&? hold schematic
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm building the JH Synthi Sample&? Hold.
> http://www.jhaible.de/tonline_stuff/jh_sc_shg.gif
> Everything works fine but I'd like to add a LED to have some visual feedback of the clock rate if the internal clock is used (timepot on the left), but also if an external clock is used (in the schematic on the right "from osc 3 pulse").
> So I'm guessing the LED should be connected somewhere in the path going to the amp bias input of the OTA at the top of the schematic.
> But what is the correct way to add the LED? I want to be sure the circuit keeps working and that the LED doesn't get too much current.
>
> Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
> http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at dropmix.xs4all.nl
http://dropmix.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Thu May 31 21:10:44 2012
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 21:10:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Looking for MATRIX 12 information
In-Reply-To: <4FC692BF.8040803@eircom.net>
References: <6905AA16-26D4-4506-B108-7B413CADA2B9@dompselaar.org>
	<6ECCF1C3-1D9C-4F66-A5C1-EA3151FE9246@me.com>
	<4FC692BF.8040803@eircom.net>
Message-ID: <26249515.KhcE5O58rR@rainer>

On Wednesday 30 May 2012, 22:35:59, John Henson wrote:
> I have the Xpander service guide but not the Matrix 12, so my question
> is probably a little silly!

I've never seen proper Matrix-12 schematics, especially of the (somewhat 
different) PSU.  Anyway, I think voices 7-12 should be the top board, but I 
don't know if you could connect them "backwards" -- if all other clues fail 
you, you could check the signal on the voice single outputs on the back of 
the voice boards, the voice that is currently playing is shown in the main 
display as a little dot.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Wavetables for the Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldUserWavetables



From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Thu May 31 22:05:26 2012
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 15:05:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] What I do with my synths...
In-Reply-To: <4FC7244E.1080703@btinternet.com>
References: <4FC7244E.1080703@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4FC7CF06.5010203@ix.netcom.com>



On 5/31/2012 2:57 AM, Oakley Sound wrote:
> I've got a new album out.
>
> Now available to listen (for free) or download (for three quid) from
> Bandcamp:
>
> http://takla-makan.bandcamp.com/album/timorianne
>
> Lots of homemade analogue content along with the occasional soft synth
> or two.
>
> Tony
>
> www.oakleysound.com



Very nice work, Tony!

It's nice to get out from under the hood and get behind the wheel of 
your creations for a while.

I believe I heard some Mini-Pops (or your clone thereof) guiro and 
quijada in Timorianne.

- Oren


From tim102 at timstinchcombe.co.uk  Thu May 31 23:01:06 2012
From: tim102 at timstinchcombe.co.uk (Tim Stinchcombe)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:01:06 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Is this a three pin cap or ceramic resonator?
In-Reply-To: <4FC6EAB2.8030106@imt.net>
Message-ID: <91A94FA018BA43CFBCB69433F8F9FBFA@stingo>

> 1) It is a ceramic package with larger dimensions near where 
> the wires 
> go in basically.  It says 101 on it as though to indicate 100pf
> 2) It measures shorted on the outer pins and 100pf to the center pin.

It does indeed sound like it could be a 3-terminal capacitor. We use them on
several of our older boards at work, for noise suppression I think. They are
basically a ceramic cap with a loop of wire for the second terminal, often
with two little ferrite beads coming of the seond connection - weird looking
things!

http://www.murata.com/products/emicon_fun/2011/09/emc_en28.html

or

http://uk.farnell.com/murata/dss6nc52a102q55b/capacitor-3-terminal-1000pf/dp
/9527427

Tim
__________________________________________________________
Tim Stinchcombe 

Cheltenham, Glos, UK
email: tim102 at timstinchcombe.co.uk
www.timstinchcombe.co.uk



From pic24hj at gmail.com  Thu May 31 23:32:16 2012
From: pic24hj at gmail.com (KD KD)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 23:32:16 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] K2000/r service manuals
Message-ID: <CADYQ7+imymR9=SUn042cd0if0UzM2JdSgQiSw9aCSGazJzkxsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Someone in the past asked for K2000 service docs, i intended to scan
mine some day but
to many pages and in A3 format to much job, but i found out someone already had!
No idea if these are complete.

http://www.synfo.nl/index.html
http://www.synfo.nl/servicemanuals/Kurzweil/K2000_K2000R_SERVICE_MANUAL.pdf


