From raphschwarz at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 16:10:39 2020
From: raphschwarz at gmail.com (Schwarz Raphael)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 16:10:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
Message-ID: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>

Hey List,

What would you recommend as good not too expensive bipolar rail to rail op amp

I have several cv inputs mixed and I need to keep the sum between -5/+5v. 
It needs to go as close as possible to the supply rails (-5/+5v) and have reasonable offset .

I initially used diodes but 0.8v is too much.

I?m kind of lost there are so many references .

Best,
Raphael


From jason at redfish.net  Mon Mar  2 02:00:21 2020
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 17:00:21 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQanAKOX6G5Pbm4A-uuU_S0AYZGPnmBj6CyPsaCDrGsDajsFA@mail.gmail.com>

fwiw, I think Synth Tech's standard CV mixing opamp is/was the Maxim
MXL1013 (or Analog Devices LT1013), and I would trust Paul to pick
that part properly :-)




On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 7:15 AM Schwarz Raphael <raphschwarz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey List,
>
> What would you recommend as good not too expensive bipolar rail to rail op amp
>
> I have several cv inputs mixed and I need to keep the sum between -5/+5v.
> It needs to go as close as possible to the supply rails (-5/+5v) and have reasonable offset .
>
> I initially used diodes but 0.8v is too much.
>
> I?m kind of lost there are so many references .
>
> Best,
> Raphael
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From mbedtom at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 05:45:29 2020
From: mbedtom at gmail.com (Tom Farrand)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 23:45:29 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CALQanAKOX6G5Pbm4A-uuU_S0AYZGPnmBj6CyPsaCDrGsDajsFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
 <CALQanAKOX6G5Pbm4A-uuU_S0AYZGPnmBj6CyPsaCDrGsDajsFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGYZNz90MMqpvUqHHOZsK5eS-4bPfGpcbT9_UqjT2TyDLimQcg@mail.gmail.com>

The LT1013 is not rail-to-rail.  The "+" output CANNOT reach the positive
power rail during a maximum "+" output.  However, the "-" output CAN swing
to the negative rail voltage.

The main properties of the LT1013 are guaranteed low offset voltage,
guaranteed low drift, low offset current et al.  This makes the LT1013 an
excellent choice for CV mixing, but the +5V supply voltage limit of your
circuit will not get you to a +5V output.  The output you would get on the
"+" side would be heavily dependent on the load resistance, but you might
get pretty close to +5V.  I would guess that +4.8V would be possible if the
load resistance was high (in the neighborhood of 100K).

You seem to be looking for a hard limit of +5V, and -5V for the summed
voltage output ... true?  The LT1013 meets your needs on the "-" output but
falls a bit short on the "+" rail.  How close to the power rails do you
need to be?  If your power supply for the rails are not high precision, you
may not get there anyway.  How precise are the power supply rails for
whatever opamp you use?

Best!
Tom Farrand

On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 8:05 PM Jason Proctor <jason at redfish.net> wrote:

> fwiw, I think Synth Tech's standard CV mixing opamp is/was the Maxim
> MXL1013 (or Analog Devices LT1013), and I would trust Paul to pick
> that part properly :-)
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 7:15 AM Schwarz Raphael <raphschwarz at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hey List,
> >
> > What would you recommend as good not too expensive bipolar rail to rail
> op amp
> >
> > I have several cv inputs mixed and I need to keep the sum between -5/+5v.
> > It needs to go as close as possible to the supply rails (-5/+5v) and
> have reasonable offset .
> >
> > I initially used diodes but 0.8v is too much.
> >
> > I?m kind of lost there are so many references .
> >
> > Best,
> > Raphael
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From synth at schmitzbits.de  Mon Mar  2 09:08:04 2020
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 09:08:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <253d7086-40a1-17a2-08ea-cdf25cc7eb59@schmitzbits.de>

On 01.03.2020 16:10, Schwarz Raphael wrote:

> What would you recommend as good not too expensive bipolar rail to rail op amp
> 
> I have several cv inputs mixed and I need to keep the sum between -5/+5v.
> It needs to go as close as possible to the supply rails (-5/+5v) and have reasonable offset .
> 
> I initially used diodes but 0.8v is too much.

I read it so, that you're actually interested in clamping the input 
voltage. Why not bias the diodes to +5.8 and -5.8v instead?


Best,
  Ren?

--
synth at schmitzbits.de
http://schmitzbits.de


From synth at schmitzbits.de  Mon Mar  2 10:02:43 2020
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 10:02:43 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <253d7086-40a1-17a2-08ea-cdf25cc7eb59@schmitzbits.de>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
 <253d7086-40a1-17a2-08ea-cdf25cc7eb59@schmitzbits.de>
Message-ID: <f98dfcd5-e9ae-0dbc-ca4e-28423d2eafcc@schmitzbits.de>

On 02.03.2020 09:08, Ren? Schmitz wrote:

>> I initially used diodes but 0.8v is too much.
> 
> I read it so, that you're actually interested in clamping the input 
> voltage. Why not bias the diodes to +5.8 and -5.8v instead?

It is more like +-4.2 actually. :)

--
synth at schmitzbits.de
http://schmitzbits.de


From raphschwarz at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 15:46:11 2020
From: raphschwarz at gmail.com (Schwarz Raphael)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 15:46:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <738D2B7E-DADA-4EEB-8EBE-B30AE9126C82@gmail.com>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
 <253d7086-40a1-17a2-08ea-cdf25cc7eb59@schmitzbits.de>
 <f98dfcd5-e9ae-0dbc-ca4e-28423d2eafcc@schmitzbits.de>
 <738D2B7E-DADA-4EEB-8EBE-B30AE9126C82@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8795EA2D-1908-40A6-9C15-CE69D5DE303D@gmail.com>



> Le 2 mars 2020 ? 15:45, Schwarz Raphael <raphschwarz at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> 
>>> I read it so, that you're actually interested in clamping the input voltage. Why not bias the diodes to +5.8 and -5.8v instead?
>> 
>> It is more like +-4.2 actually. :)
> 
> 
> It?s actually a good idea
> 
> I realized I overlooked the variation with forward current and temperature, 
> 
> I was a taking for granted the 0,8v drop , at 25? and 10mA it?s actually much less
> 
> About 0.24v on a bat54s (what I was using)
> About 0,65v on a 4148. 
> 
> Real life testing of a bunch of diode is consistent with this. My simulator has a very simplified model of diodes
> 
> I wonder if biasing to about 4.75v is a practical solution with part tolerance , out of a bunch of bat54s I randomly tested it seems to only vary by a few mV
> 
> temperature variation is not crazy for 10ma datasheet says 0,3v at 0? and 0.2v at 75?. So about 1% of 5V from 0? to 75?
> 
> So it might be doable
> 
> I still think a good rail to rail opamp would be a more elegant solution
> 
> 1% of 5v is 50mV : something that could fit that range or slightly better would be enough. The application is keeping a bunch of gain to a maximum.
> 
> Best,
> Raphael




From jacobwatters at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 17:41:04 2020
From: jacobwatters at gmail.com (Jacob Watters)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 11:41:04 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <8795EA2D-1908-40A6-9C15-CE69D5DE303D@gmail.com>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
 <253d7086-40a1-17a2-08ea-cdf25cc7eb59@schmitzbits.de>
 <f98dfcd5-e9ae-0dbc-ca4e-28423d2eafcc@schmitzbits.de>
 <738D2B7E-DADA-4EEB-8EBE-B30AE9126C82@gmail.com>
 <8795EA2D-1908-40A6-9C15-CE69D5DE303D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKcdib2S4-LNy8Jk_D8cthUm9Uc47_T=bTdqbhNXrg67NGPAaw@mail.gmail.com>

Someone shared this a while ago. It might help with the selection process.

Op Amp Shootout
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cfqitAdr0XEY4nd1PxWJ7wSBVZPki5V--rAdHqpQrGc/edit#gid=1880344491


*Jacob Watters*
JacobWatters.com <http://jacobwatters.com/>
Tel: 226-886-3526


On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 9:47 AM Schwarz Raphael <raphschwarz at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> > Le 2 mars 2020 ? 15:45, Schwarz Raphael <raphschwarz at gmail.com> a ?crit
> :
> >
> >>> I read it so, that you're actually interested in clamping the input
> voltage. Why not bias the diodes to +5.8 and -5.8v instead?
> >>
> >> It is more like +-4.2 actually. :)
> >
> >
> > It?s actually a good idea
> >
> > I realized I overlooked the variation with forward current and
> temperature,
> >
> > I was a taking for granted the 0,8v drop , at 25? and 10mA it?s actually
> much less
> >
> > About 0.24v on a bat54s (what I was using)
> > About 0,65v on a 4148.
> >
> > Real life testing of a bunch of diode is consistent with this. My
> simulator has a very simplified model of diodes
> >
> > I wonder if biasing to about 4.75v is a practical solution with part
> tolerance , out of a bunch of bat54s I randomly tested it seems to only
> vary by a few mV
> >
> > temperature variation is not crazy for 10ma datasheet says 0,3v at 0?
> and 0.2v at 75?. So about 1% of 5V from 0? to 75?
> >
> > So it might be doable
> >
> > I still think a good rail to rail opamp would be a more elegant solution
> >
> > 1% of 5v is 50mV : something that could fit that range or slightly
> better would be enough. The application is keeping a bunch of gain to a
> maximum.
> >
> > Best,
> > Raphael
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 19:27:51 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 12:27:51 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAKcdib2S4-LNy8Jk_D8cthUm9Uc47_T=bTdqbhNXrg67NGPAaw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
 <253d7086-40a1-17a2-08ea-cdf25cc7eb59@schmitzbits.de>
 <f98dfcd5-e9ae-0dbc-ca4e-28423d2eafcc@schmitzbits.de>
 <738D2B7E-DADA-4EEB-8EBE-B30AE9126C82@gmail.com>
 <8795EA2D-1908-40A6-9C15-CE69D5DE303D@gmail.com>
 <CAKcdib2S4-LNy8Jk_D8cthUm9Uc47_T=bTdqbhNXrg67NGPAaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR_E5+uvbsoCjZWL_8-RYDmEvULwT8FopN=W-hCnYPekZw@mail.gmail.com>

That spreadsheet is very useful.

According to the datasheet, TLC227X op amps can do rail to rail, and I've
seen them used in some synth projects.  I have no idea how their other
specs stack up for what you need though, I'd cross check against the data
sheet.  I don't see them on the spreadsheet.

Pete


On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 10:43 AM Jacob Watters <jacobwatters at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Someone shared this a while ago. It might help with the selection process.
>
> Op Amp Shootout
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cfqitAdr0XEY4nd1PxWJ7wSBVZPki5V--rAdHqpQrGc/edit#gid=1880344491
>
>
> *Jacob Watters*
> JacobWatters.com <http://jacobwatters.com/>
> Tel: 226-886-3526
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 9:47 AM Schwarz Raphael <raphschwarz at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > Le 2 mars 2020 ? 15:45, Schwarz Raphael <raphschwarz at gmail.com> a
>> ?crit :
>> >
>> >>> I read it so, that you're actually interested in clamping the input
>> voltage. Why not bias the diodes to +5.8 and -5.8v instead?
>> >>
>> >> It is more like +-4.2 actually. :)
>> >
>> >
>> > It?s actually a good idea
>> >
>> > I realized I overlooked the variation with forward current and
>> temperature,
>> >
>> > I was a taking for granted the 0,8v drop , at 25? and 10mA it?s
>> actually much less
>> >
>> > About 0.24v on a bat54s (what I was using)
>> > About 0,65v on a 4148.
>> >
>> > Real life testing of a bunch of diode is consistent with this. My
>> simulator has a very simplified model of diodes
>> >
>> > I wonder if biasing to about 4.75v is a practical solution with part
>> tolerance , out of a bunch of bat54s I randomly tested it seems to only
>> vary by a few mV
>> >
>> > temperature variation is not crazy for 10ma datasheet says 0,3v at 0?
>> and 0.2v at 75?. So about 1% of 5V from 0? to 75?
>> >
>> > So it might be doable
>> >
>> > I still think a good rail to rail opamp would be a more elegant solution
>> >
>> > 1% of 5v is 50mV : something that could fit that range or slightly
>> better would be enough. The application is keeping a bunch of gain to a
>> maximum.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Raphael
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From jschwich53 at comcast.net  Mon Mar  2 20:09:15 2020
From: jschwich53 at comcast.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 11:09:15 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d2b4f38a-e62f-ba06-7cc6-8873fcfdbfc6@comcast.net>

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the diodes. Using silicon diodes 
the breakdown voltage will be about 0.6-0.7V and for Schottky diodes 
about 0.3V.

Might want to switch over to Schottky diodes then the clamping would be 
around +/- 5.3V. I looked at some synth schematics and 1N5817 seems to 
be a common one.

Jay S.

On 3/1/2020 7:10 AM, Schwarz Raphael wrote:
> Hey List,
>
> What would you recommend as good not too expensive bipolar rail to rail op amp
>
> I have several cv inputs mixed and I need to keep the sum between -5/+5v.
> It needs to go as close as possible to the supply rails (-5/+5v) and have reasonable offset .
>
> I initially used diodes but 0.8v is too much.
>
> I?m kind of lost there are so many references .
>
> Best,
> Raphael
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From synth at schmitzbits.de  Mon Mar  2 20:27:09 2020
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 20:27:09 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <8795EA2D-1908-40A6-9C15-CE69D5DE303D@gmail.com>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
 <253d7086-40a1-17a2-08ea-cdf25cc7eb59@schmitzbits.de>
 <f98dfcd5-e9ae-0dbc-ca4e-28423d2eafcc@schmitzbits.de>
 <738D2B7E-DADA-4EEB-8EBE-B30AE9126C82@gmail.com>
 <8795EA2D-1908-40A6-9C15-CE69D5DE303D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f630e9ed-229e-f8d1-2182-bb57cdc6a0af@schmitzbits.de>

Hi Rafael and list,


On 02.03.2020 15:46, Schwarz Raphael wrote:

>> Le 2 mars 2020 ? 15:45, Schwarz Raphael <raphschwarz at gmail.com> a ?crit :
>>
>>>> I read it so, that you're actually interested in clamping the input voltage. Why not bias the diodes to +5.8 and -5.8v instead?
>>>
>>> It is more like +-4.2 actually. :)
>>
>>
>> It?s actually a good idea
>>
>> I realized I overlooked the variation with forward current and temperature,
>>
>> I was a taking for granted the 0,8v drop , at 25? and 10mA it?s actually much less
>>
>> About 0.24v on a bat54s (what I was using)
>> About 0,65v on a 4148.
>>
>> Real life testing of a bunch of diode is consistent with this. My simulator has a very simplified model of diodes
>>
>> I wonder if biasing to about 4.75v is a practical solution with part tolerance , out of a bunch of bat54s I randomly tested it seems to only vary by a few mV
>>
>> temperature variation is not crazy for 10ma datasheet says 0,3v at 0? and 0.2v at 75?. So about 1% of 5V from 0? to 75?
>>
>> So it might be doable

You can derive the bias voltage from a diode also. That would cancel any 
temperature effects. Since you can compensate for the forward drop, you 
don't actually need the schottky.

>> I still think a good rail to rail opamp would be a more elegant solution

I would say this depends on how many inputs need this treatment. The 
bias voltage can be re-used for several inputs, each with its own pair 
of diodes.

And a rail-to-rail opamp might sit away 50mV or so away from the rails. 
Depending on the load.

Best,
  Ren?


--
synth at schmitzbits.de
http://schmitzbits.de


From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Tue Mar  3 08:20:46 2020
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 23:20:46 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Bipolar Rail to Rail Opamp recommendation
In-Reply-To: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
References: <E3F524B5-46F5-4936-B9AD-8B4F1519E7EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <051BCEEF-CF19-4504-9AD2-B62DF71A1A6E@audiobanshee.com>

op amps do not have a ground pin, just +V and -V. So your requirements specify a 10 V op amp.

I was just about to share my experience that rail-to-rail op amps seem to be limited to 5 V supply ranges, but then I did a quick search of Mouser, plugging your requirements into the minimum and maximum supply constraints. Looks like there are plenty of RROI (rail-to-rail input/output) op amps listed, so my experience was not complete. Top of the list are Texas Instruments TLV and OPA chips.


Assuming that you?re in a Eurorack scenario, why not just use a 24 V supply for the op amp, and use other signal conditioning techniques to guarantee that the inputs and/or outputs are clamped to ?5 V ? You?ll have much more control, and you can buy op amps that aren?t rail-to-rail because you won?t be anywhere close.

I also wanted to point out that op amps can draw an unexpected amount of current when you purposely exceed their voltage limits. If your goal is to clamp the mix of CV inputs, then you should design circuit elements specifically for that feature, rather than pop in a rail-to-rail op amp fed by ?5 V and expect it to handle the task gracefully.

Brian


On Mar 1, 2020, at 7:10 AM, Schwarz Raphael <raphschwarz at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> What would you recommend as good not too expensive bipolar rail to rail op amp
> 
> I have several cv inputs mixed and I need to keep the sum between -5/+5v. 
> It needs to go as close as possible to the supply rails (-5/+5v) and have reasonable offset .
> 
> I initially used diodes but 0.8v is too much.
> 
> I?m kind of lost there are so many references .
> 
> Best,
> Raphael



From barryklein at cox.net  Tue Mar  3 22:11:02 2020
From: barryklein at cox.net (Barry Klein)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2020 13:11:02 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Banana jacks and plugs
Message-ID: <5E34B0B6-EFE4-4AAC-8F84-6837F4D5BD15@cox.net>

Hi all,
I have several hundred banana jacks and plugs that I have put on sale on eBay: 
Item
274292689062
I put them in small flat rate boxes. Many are defective in one way or another but you get a lot for $3.  It?s just that shipping is a killer at over $7 a box.  I have what filled three large flat rate boxes but I figure nobody wants that many so I put them in the small boxes. I figure you guys are the key target market for these.



From jschwich53 at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 23:10:48 2020
From: jschwich53 at comcast.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:10:48 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
Message-ID: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>

Everyone,

I'd like to get some ideas, thoughts and opinions on setting up a 
micro-processor development environment on my PC (Windows).

I was a HW/SW embedded/bare metal engineer until I retired. I did 
contract work and have worked with processors from the 8080, Z80, 6800 
... to todays MicroChips, ARMs and Intel Pentiums chips. Being a 
contractor I would usually work onsite to have access to programmers, 
test equipment and prototypes. The customer would have the development 
environment already established (Eclipse, gcc tool chain, MPLAB, IAR, 
Keil) so I just used what was there.

Well now I getting ready to setup my PC to do some development at home 
which will mainly be targeting SDIY. Doing stuff at home gives me a lot 
more choices of processors to work with. Going to be doing NXP ARM 
(chips and Teensys), STMicro ARM (chips, Nucleo, Discovery) , MicroChip 
things, Raspberry PI and probably some Arduino too.

The obvious choice would be to download and use MCUXpresso, 
STM32CubeIDE, MPLAB and Arduino development environments. That would be 
a lot but doable. One thing that a number of people seem to be using now 
days is VisualDBG ($) which integrates into MS Visual Studio which seems 
to be all inclusive.

VisualDBG seems to be OK but it doesn't seem to have the ability to do 
setup code and provide peripheral drivers like the other environments. 
Also don't have a clue of how well VisualDBG would support manufacture's 
libraries, board support code and demo code.

So what are other people doing, thoughts, ideas?

Thanks much.
Jay S.



From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Wed Mar  4 23:16:19 2020
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 22:16:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>

On Wed, Mar 04, 2020 at 02:10:48PM -0800, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
> 
> So what are other people doing, thoughts, ideas?

sudo apt-get install gcc-arm-none-eabi vim

-- 
Gordonjcp



From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Wed Mar  4 23:53:23 2020
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:53:23 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <88dfa32c-15cc-d72e-7362-7b45309e9b78@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

Like you, I've been using mainly IDE's provided for whatever platform 
I'm on, however, I have also used Visual Studio Code and it's pretty good.

The problem with a lot of the new environments is that they are a moving 
target. PlatformIO updates a lot for instance. It would be very hard I 
think to create a long-term system that you could recreate 5 or 10 years 
down the line.

GB

On 3/4/2020 2:10 PM, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
> Everyone,
> 
> I'd like to get some ideas, thoughts and opinions on setting up a 
> micro-processor development environment on my PC (Windows).
> 
> I was a HW/SW embedded/bare metal engineer until I retired. I did 
> contract work and have worked with processors from the 8080, Z80, 6800 
> ... to todays MicroChips, ARMs and Intel Pentiums chips. Being a 
> contractor I would usually work onsite to have access to programmers, 
> test equipment and prototypes. The customer would have the development 
> environment already established (Eclipse, gcc tool chain, MPLAB, IAR, 
> Keil) so I just used what was there.
> 
> Well now I getting ready to setup my PC to do some development at home 
> which will mainly be targeting SDIY. Doing stuff at home gives me a lot 
> more choices of processors to work with. Going to be doing NXP ARM 
> (chips and Teensys), STMicro ARM (chips, Nucleo, Discovery) , MicroChip 
> things, Raspberry PI and probably some Arduino too.
> 
> The obvious choice would be to download and use MCUXpresso, 
> STM32CubeIDE, MPLAB and Arduino development environments. That would be 
> a lot but doable. One thing that a number of people seem to be using now 
> days is VisualDBG ($) which integrates into MS Visual Studio which seems 
> to be all inclusive.
> 
> VisualDBG seems to be OK but it doesn't seem to have the ability to do 
> setup code and provide peripheral drivers like the other environments. 
> Also don't have a clue of how well VisualDBG would support manufacture's 
> libraries, board support code and demo code.
> 
> So what are other people doing, thoughts, ideas?
> 
> Thanks much.
> Jay S.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 


From ben at stuyts.nl  Thu Mar  5 00:03:37 2020
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 00:03:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <7EF37D1B-1A75-48F1-945D-6F24058A14BC@stuyts.nl>

Hi Jay,

I have been using Rowley CrossWorks for many years in quite a few commercial projects. Both their ARM and the AVR compiler, although the latter is not really supported anymore. They have a free trial and a reasonable license for personal use ($150).  See https://www.rowley.co.uk/arm/index.htm <https://www.rowley.co.uk/arm/index.htm>. It has both the gcc and clang compilers underneath, and it is easy to switch. I mostly use clang now. They have lots of cpu and board support packages, see https://www.rowleydownload.co.uk/arm/packages/index.htm?https://www.rowleydownload.co.uk/arm/packages/BSPs.htm <https://www.rowleydownload.co.uk/arm/packages/index.htm?https://www.rowleydownload.co.uk/arm/packages/BSPs.htm>. The build configuration setup is easier than VisualStudio?s, but that is probably a matter of personal taste. Their support is excellent too. It is also cross-platform and I use it on Mac OS X and Windows. Linux available too.

I would stay away from vendor supplied IDE?s and libraries. The libraries usually have lots of hidden bugs or limitations. Also vendor lock-in. Better to get to know the stuff you?re using by rolling or adapting your own. I?ve switched from NXP to ST for example, and that would be more difficult when you were bound to the vendor?s tools.

Minor disclaimer: I believe I was Rowley?s first customer in 1988. :-) Modula-2 compiler on a Sun 3/80 for the 68070 and the 68332. I still use it to support some old projects.

Ben


> On 4 Mar 2020, at 23:10, Jay Schwichtenberg <jschwich53 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Everyone,
> 
> I'd like to get some ideas, thoughts and opinions on setting up a micro-processor development environment on my PC (Windows).
> 
> I was a HW/SW embedded/bare metal engineer until I retired. I did contract work and have worked with processors from the 8080, Z80, 6800 ... to todays MicroChips, ARMs and Intel Pentiums chips. Being a contractor I would usually work onsite to have access to programmers, test equipment and prototypes. The customer would have the development environment already established (Eclipse, gcc tool chain, MPLAB, IAR, Keil) so I just used what was there.
> 
> Well now I getting ready to setup my PC to do some development at home which will mainly be targeting SDIY. Doing stuff at home gives me a lot more choices of processors to work with. Going to be doing NXP ARM (chips and Teensys), STMicro ARM (chips, Nucleo, Discovery) , MicroChip things, Raspberry PI and probably some Arduino too.
> 
> The obvious choice would be to download and use MCUXpresso, STM32CubeIDE, MPLAB and Arduino development environments. That would be a lot but doable. One thing that a number of people seem to be using now days is VisualDBG ($) which integrates into MS Visual Studio which seems to be all inclusive.
> 
> VisualDBG seems to be OK but it doesn't seem to have the ability to do setup code and provide peripheral drivers like the other environments. Also don't have a clue of how well VisualDBG would support manufacture's libraries, board support code and demo code.
> 
> So what are other people doing, thoughts, ideas?
> 
> Thanks much.
> Jay S.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From jschwich53 at comcast.net  Thu Mar  5 00:08:52 2020
From: jschwich53 at comcast.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 15:08:52 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <ab88b185-35e5-4bd9-a8a0-f497a64331f8@comcast.net>

Gordon,

That works. But I would prefer an environment that has some sort of 
setup generator.

I've found that typically if you have to write setup code and drivers 
for the peripherals you use that can take significantly more time then 
writing the application. That being said I usually leave the setup code 
alone and don't muck with it when generated. That code is ran once and 
just takes Flash. But the drivers I usually get into and clean up, fix 
and optimize. Last project I did for work was with a LPC54616 and 
MCUXpresso. USB drivers were pretty bad and had to spend 4 days 
rewriting and debugging them. Either they had an idiot do them or told 
and intern to port something they knew nothing about.

Thanks
Jay S.

On 3/4/2020 2:16 PM, Gordonjcp wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 04, 2020 at 02:10:48PM -0800, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
>> So what are other people doing, thoughts, ideas?
> sudo apt-get install gcc-arm-none-eabi vim
>


From indigoid at oldcorollas.org  Thu Mar  5 01:32:35 2020
From: indigoid at oldcorollas.org (john slee)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 11:32:35 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <88dfa32c-15cc-d72e-7362-7b45309e9b78@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <88dfa32c-15cc-d72e-7362-7b45309e9b78@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CAK+JDy3jWZZQZH2QrUPr=YUUKmXOf4g_FNkOBnPvRSxSav5Qcg@mail.gmail.com>

My development is all server stuff for work nowadays ? overwhelmingly
Golang ? but the same principles can easily apply to microcontrollers and
other languages.

I build everything in Docker containers, even if it?s a tool I will only
use on my laptops. This way I can populate a fully working development
environment and easily copy that environment around and be confident that
it will work everywhere.

In the pre-Docker years I used to take a similar approach but simply using
tar archives.

IIRC Emilie Gillet has done something like this for working on her
products, and shared it with the community.

John


On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 09:54 MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:

> Like you, I've been using mainly IDE's provided for whatever platform
> I'm on, however, I have also used Visual Studio Code and it's pretty good.
>
> The problem with a lot of the new environments is that they are a moving
> target. PlatformIO updates a lot for instance. It would be very hard I
> think to create a long-term system that you could recreate 5 or 10 years
> down the line.
>
> GB
>
> On 3/4/2020 2:10 PM, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
> > Everyone,
> >
> > I'd like to get some ideas, thoughts and opinions on setting up a
> > micro-processor development environment on my PC (Windows).
> >
> > I was a HW/SW embedded/bare metal engineer until I retired. I did
> > contract work and have worked with processors from the 8080, Z80, 6800
> > ... to todays MicroChips, ARMs and Intel Pentiums chips. Being a
> > contractor I would usually work onsite to have access to programmers,
> > test equipment and prototypes. The customer would have the development
> > environment already established (Eclipse, gcc tool chain, MPLAB, IAR,
> > Keil) so I just used what was there.
> >
> > Well now I getting ready to setup my PC to do some development at home
> > which will mainly be targeting SDIY. Doing stuff at home gives me a lot
> > more choices of processors to work with. Going to be doing NXP ARM
> > (chips and Teensys), STMicro ARM (chips, Nucleo, Discovery) , MicroChip
> > things, Raspberry PI and probably some Arduino too.
> >
> > The obvious choice would be to download and use MCUXpresso,
> > STM32CubeIDE, MPLAB and Arduino development environments. That would be
> > a lot but doable. One thing that a number of people seem to be using now
> > days is VisualDBG ($) which integrates into MS Visual Studio which seems
> > to be all inclusive.
> >
> > VisualDBG seems to be OK but it doesn't seem to have the ability to do
> > setup code and provide peripheral drivers like the other environments.
> > Also don't have a clue of how well VisualDBG would support manufacture's
> > libraries, board support code and demo code.
> >
> > So what are other people doing, thoughts, ideas?
> >
> > Thanks much.
> > Jay S.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From mbedtom at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 02:39:59 2020
From: mbedtom at gmail.com (Tom Farrand)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 20:39:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <CAK+JDy3jWZZQZH2QrUPr=YUUKmXOf4g_FNkOBnPvRSxSav5Qcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <88dfa32c-15cc-d72e-7362-7b45309e9b78@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAK+JDy3jWZZQZH2QrUPr=YUUKmXOf4g_FNkOBnPvRSxSav5Qcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGYZNz9zG8UsqFGg5F5ivK-y_pOC+dT9jx+-B+sPNND75JREHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Jay,

I will 2nd Ben's suggestion about Rowley.  Easy to work with & decent
products that are supported.  The personal license is dirt cheap as well.
What's not to like?

Tom Farrand


On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 7:37 PM john slee <indigoid at oldcorollas.org> wrote:

> My development is all server stuff for work nowadays ? overwhelmingly
> Golang ? but the same principles can easily apply to microcontrollers and
> other languages.
>
> I build everything in Docker containers, even if it?s a tool I will only
> use on my laptops. This way I can populate a fully working development
> environment and easily copy that environment around and be confident that
> it will work everywhere.
>
> In the pre-Docker years I used to take a similar approach but simply using
> tar archives.
>
> IIRC Emilie Gillet has done something like this for working on her
> products, and shared it with the community.
>
> John
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 09:54 MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:
>
>> Like you, I've been using mainly IDE's provided for whatever platform
>> I'm on, however, I have also used Visual Studio Code and it's pretty good.
>>
>> The problem with a lot of the new environments is that they are a moving
>> target. PlatformIO updates a lot for instance. It would be very hard I
>> think to create a long-term system that you could recreate 5 or 10 years
>> down the line.
>>
>> GB
>>
>> On 3/4/2020 2:10 PM, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
>> > Everyone,
>> >
>> > I'd like to get some ideas, thoughts and opinions on setting up a
>> > micro-processor development environment on my PC (Windows).
>> >
>> > I was a HW/SW embedded/bare metal engineer until I retired. I did
>> > contract work and have worked with processors from the 8080, Z80, 6800
>> > ... to todays MicroChips, ARMs and Intel Pentiums chips. Being a
>> > contractor I would usually work onsite to have access to programmers,
>> > test equipment and prototypes. The customer would have the development
>> > environment already established (Eclipse, gcc tool chain, MPLAB, IAR,
>> > Keil) so I just used what was there.
>> >
>> > Well now I getting ready to setup my PC to do some development at home
>> > which will mainly be targeting SDIY. Doing stuff at home gives me a lot
>> > more choices of processors to work with. Going to be doing NXP ARM
>> > (chips and Teensys), STMicro ARM (chips, Nucleo, Discovery) , MicroChip
>> > things, Raspberry PI and probably some Arduino too.
>> >
>> > The obvious choice would be to download and use MCUXpresso,
>> > STM32CubeIDE, MPLAB and Arduino development environments. That would be
>> > a lot but doable. One thing that a number of people seem to be using
>> now
>> > days is VisualDBG ($) which integrates into MS Visual Studio which
>> seems
>> > to be all inclusive.
>> >
>> > VisualDBG seems to be OK but it doesn't seem to have the ability to do
>> > setup code and provide peripheral drivers like the other environments.
>> > Also don't have a clue of how well VisualDBG would support
>> manufacture's
>> > libraries, board support code and demo code.
>> >
>> > So what are other people doing, thoughts, ideas?
>> >
>> > Thanks much.
>> > Jay S.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Thu Mar  5 08:34:27 2020
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 07:34:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <ab88b185-35e5-4bd9-a8a0-f497a64331f8@comcast.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>
 <ab88b185-35e5-4bd9-a8a0-f497a64331f8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20200305073427.GA15714@gjcp.net>

On Wed, Mar 04, 2020 at 03:08:52PM -0800, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
> Gordon,
> 
> That works. But I would prefer an environment that has some sort of setup
> generator.
> 

Not sure what you mean by "setup generator"?

> I've found that typically if you have to write setup code and drivers for
> the peripherals you use that can take significantly more time then writing
> the application. That being said I usually leave the setup code alone and

If you're using the Arduino libraries you'll very soon run up against limitations that stem from making it "easy to use" and "works on everything" that get in the way of "doesn't do weird shit".

For ARM you really need to look at libopencm3, but I'm not sure if anything similar exists for AVR8.

On AVR8 I tend to end up writing everything on bare metal eventually without using anything more than stdlib functions, particularly for things like interrupt handlers where I've generally got a very very specific thing I want it to do - like, for serial interrupts, if it's handling MIDI it has to do the MIDI clock task *right now* right there in the handler, and not queue that byte.

Trying to do DSP on an 8-bit 16MHz chip that has only add, subtract and 8x8 unsigned multiply is quite a challenge, and the only reason I bother writing synth code for AVR8 is probably the same reason I like Rubik cubes.

-- 
Gordonjcp


From jason at tribbeck.com  Thu Mar  5 09:43:07 2020
From: jason at tribbeck.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 08:43:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAL3=FbZ8eNBHMQW9BLjnxntAZ-8yAHo=Cy3sYLC=k65tRije2g@mail.gmail.com>

I've used VisualGDB with STMCube, importing the latter into VGDB. I thought
it did do the peripheral initialisation though.

I could be wrong, mind you, as the last time I did it was about 3 years
ago. I know I was able to use FatFS from STMCube happily with an STM32F051,
and also various USB device implementations, mostly on STM32F072.

On Wed, 4 Mar 2020, 22:14 Jay Schwichtenberg, <jschwich53 at comcast.net>
wrote:

> Everyone,
>
> I'd like to get some ideas, thoughts and opinions on setting up a
> micro-processor development environment on my PC (Windows).
>
> I was a HW/SW embedded/bare metal engineer until I retired. I did
> contract work and have worked with processors from the 8080, Z80, 6800
> ... to todays MicroChips, ARMs and Intel Pentiums chips. Being a
> contractor I would usually work onsite to have access to programmers,
> test equipment and prototypes. The customer would have the development
> environment already established (Eclipse, gcc tool chain, MPLAB, IAR,
> Keil) so I just used what was there.
>
> Well now I getting ready to setup my PC to do some development at home
> which will mainly be targeting SDIY. Doing stuff at home gives me a lot
> more choices of processors to work with. Going to be doing NXP ARM
> (chips and Teensys), STMicro ARM (chips, Nucleo, Discovery) , MicroChip
> things, Raspberry PI and probably some Arduino too.
>
> The obvious choice would be to download and use MCUXpresso,
> STM32CubeIDE, MPLAB and Arduino development environments. That would be
> a lot but doable. One thing that a number of people seem to be using now
> days is VisualDBG ($) which integrates into MS Visual Studio which seems
> to be all inclusive.
>
> VisualDBG seems to be OK but it doesn't seem to have the ability to do
> setup code and provide peripheral drivers like the other environments.
> Also don't have a clue of how well VisualDBG would support manufacture's
> libraries, board support code and demo code.
>
> So what are other people doing, thoughts, ideas?
>
> Thanks much.
> Jay S.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From jfellinger at airmail.cc  Thu Mar  5 11:13:41 2020
From: jfellinger at airmail.cc (J. Fellinger)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 10:13:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <16cb1a68-71e5-402a-a639-08f524192342@localhost>


I personally have been doing stuff with atmel/microchip atsamd/atsamc series lately. You can generate setup code with Atmel Start (online) for whatever IDE you're using. Atmel has its own Visual Studio IDE, but they only support debuggers that I dont have/dont want to afford (and I dont think there is a way to add your own), so I switched to Visual Studio Code (not to be mistaken for Visual Studio) and installed an ARM debugger plugin that connects to a GDB Server running on a Black Magic Probe (an open source arm debugger). All in all works pretty good for me.




From ben at stuyts.nl  Thu Mar  5 12:39:31 2020
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 12:39:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <16cb1a68-71e5-402a-a639-08f524192342@localhost>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <16cb1a68-71e5-402a-a639-08f524192342@localhost>
Message-ID: <2A75119D-FE3B-4608-A3EC-C8F9017496FC@stuyts.nl>

About the subject of debuggers: a really nice one and not too expensive for non-commercial use is the Segger J-Link Edu. It is around ?50 and supports tons of JTAG and SWD targets (not only ARM). It is supported by CrossWorks that I mentioned earlier, but also by all the other major IDE?s. For commercial work I use a Rowley CrossConnect but it is in a different price category. Doesn?t support AVR though, but I use an Atmel Dragon for that which wasn't too expensive. 

https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/models/j-link-edu/ <https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/models/j-link-edu/>

Ben


> On 5 Mar 2020, at 11:13, J. Fellinger <jfellinger at airmail.cc> wrote:
> 
> 
> I personally have been doing stuff with atmel/microchip atsamd/atsamc series lately. You can generate setup code with Atmel Start (online) for whatever IDE you're using. Atmel has its own Visual Studio IDE, but they only support debuggers that I dont have/dont want to afford (and I dont think there is a way to add your own), so I switched to Visual Studio Code (not to be mistaken for Visual Studio) and installed an ARM debugger plugin that connects to a GDB Server running on a Black Magic Probe (an open source arm debugger). All in all works pretty good for me.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From maohelin at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 14:16:24 2020
From: maohelin at gmail.com (Mikko Helin)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 15:16:24 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <2A75119D-FE3B-4608-A3EC-C8F9017496FC@stuyts.nl>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <16cb1a68-71e5-402a-a639-08f524192342@localhost>
 <2A75119D-FE3B-4608-A3EC-C8F9017496FC@stuyts.nl>
Message-ID: <CAJ5nAj7wr5Vpt+GDwNyJZvKC3=MFEfKQ+eVTw_Ytm4am3VVAig@mail.gmail.com>

In tend to use VSCode (Visual Studio Code) as an IDE and set up it's
environment for various targets if possible, or use some special tools (but
not too many) if it's not possible. For Teensy for an example (with VSCode)
you can use the Makefile or PlatformIO integration, because Teensys don't
have hardware debugger ports enabled (pins are not accessible) you can not
benefit from any debuggers but have to use another kind of debugging
strategies.

For STM32 there are some guides available how to setup the VSCode projects
using STM32CubeMX:
https://hbfsrobotics.com/blog/configuring-vs-code-arm-development-stm32cubemx

Last time I used the Eclipse based IDE though.

For other MCU's like NXP there is also way to use VSCode:
https://nxp.gitbook.io/hovergames/developerguide/tools/visual-studio-code
Also PlatformIO supports mbed for LPC micros:
https://github.com/platformio/platform-nxplpc

On Windows the Visual Studio and VisualGDB looks nice though:
https://visualgdb.com/tutorials/arm/nxp_lpc/
On Linux I guess it's not available.

It would be easier if you used just one brand of
micro-processors/controllers :) Also some kind of Arduino environment is
available for almost all most common devices, but then you cannot maybe
have all functionality available. After you have written Arduino driver for
some device (as kind of C++ class) it's easy to use though, I like Teensy
libraries for an example because of that (too bad there aren't many Teensy
system developers in addition to Paul himself).

Mikko


On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 1:43 PM Ben Stuyts <ben at stuyts.nl> wrote:

> About the subject of debuggers: a really nice one and not too expensive
> for non-commercial use is the Segger J-Link Edu. It is around ?50 and
> supports tons of JTAG and SWD targets (not only ARM). It is supported by
> CrossWorks that I mentioned earlier, but also by all the other major IDE?s.
> For commercial work I use a Rowley CrossConnect but it is in a different
> price category. Doesn?t support AVR though, but I use an Atmel Dragon for
> that which wasn't too expensive.
>
> https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/models/j-link-edu/
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 5 Mar 2020, at 11:13, J. Fellinger <jfellinger at airmail.cc> wrote:
>
>
> I personally have been doing stuff with atmel/microchip atsamd/atsamc
> series lately. You can generate setup code with Atmel Start (online) for
> whatever IDE you're using. Atmel has its own Visual Studio IDE, but they
> only support debuggers that I dont have/dont want to afford (and I dont
> think there is a way to add your own), so I switched to Visual Studio Code
> (not to be mistaken for Visual Studio) and installed an ARM debugger plugin
> that connects to a GDB Server running on a Black Magic Probe (an open
> source arm debugger). All in all works pretty good for me.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From montalbanogm at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 19:11:55 2020
From: montalbanogm at gmail.com (gm)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 10:11:55 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] OBXa Memory problems
Message-ID: <dd9a80e2-eadb-6f20-cb13-f51b7d68056d@gmail.com>

I'm currently dealing with an OBXa that was working, but is now 
exhibiting memory problems.

The ADC is working:? all switches & pots can be used to set a patch. 
Holding down Write & selecting a patch location will let the patch play, 
but as soon as the patch is reselected or another patch is selected, all 
patch data goes back to random.

Some givens:? all power rails are clean and correct; all address & data 
lines are present; ROMs, RAM and CPU have been swapped out with no 
change.? This unit is one of the early upgrades, with the piggyback 
memory board, running version XAC0 in 2716 ROMs.

Since all ICs are socketed, I swapped out A117 and A115 and tested the 
memory protect switch -- switch grounds A117 pin 1 as it should when 
engaged, and releases ground when turned off.

I have the feeling I'm missing something stupidly obvious here, and 
would appreciate any pointers as to where I can look next.

Thanks.
~GMM



From jschwich53 at comcast.net  Thu Mar  5 23:06:51 2020
From: jschwich53 at comcast.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 14:06:51 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <20200305073427.GA15714@gjcp.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>
 <ab88b185-35e5-4bd9-a8a0-f497a64331f8@comcast.net>
 <20200305073427.GA15714@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <c4c0074c-40c7-e335-0126-414a879003a1@comcast.net>

Gordon,

Setup generator. A number of the Eclipse based environments have windows 
that show the processor or board that you've selected. You can then 
select a multi-use pin and say it's a serial or SPI or ... interface. It 
will then generate setup code and load a driver for that pin/peripheral. 
I usually go through the drivers and sometime the setup code after it's 
generated to clean up, optimize and fix.

Other than doing? Arduino boards directly the Arduino IDE isn't 
something I would use. For me it's pretty much way at the bottom of the 
list because as you said it limits what you can do easily and it's not 
really C.

Interrupts can be tricky but a lot depends on what your doing, the 
resources available and the timing requirements. Some times you can do 
every thing in the ISR, sometimes a DPC (Deferred Procedure Call, even 
though this is a Windows thing you do it else where too), sometimes 
semaphores/mutexes are needed, sometimes queues are needed and on and on.

Happy coding.
Jay S.

On 3/4/2020 11:34 PM, Gordonjcp wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 04, 2020 at 03:08:52PM -0800, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
>> Gordon,
>>
>> That works. But I would prefer an environment that has some sort of setup
>> generator.
>>
> Not sure what you mean by "setup generator"?
>
>> I've found that typically if you have to write setup code and drivers for
>> the peripherals you use that can take significantly more time then writing
>> the application. That being said I usually leave the setup code alone and
> If you're using the Arduino libraries you'll very soon run up against limitations that stem from making it "easy to use" and "works on everything" that get in the way of "doesn't do weird shit".
>
> For ARM you really need to look at libopencm3, but I'm not sure if anything similar exists for AVR8.
>
> On AVR8 I tend to end up writing everything on bare metal eventually without using anything more than stdlib functions, particularly for things like interrupt handlers where I've generally got a very very specific thing I want it to do - like, for serial interrupts, if it's handling MIDI it has to do the MIDI clock task *right now* right there in the handler, and not queue that byte.
>
> Trying to do DSP on an 8-bit 16MHz chip that has only add, subtract and 8x8 unsigned multiply is quite a challenge, and the only reason I bother writing synth code for AVR8 is probably the same reason I like Rubik cubes.
>


From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Fri Mar  6 01:30:28 2020
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 01:30:28 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <c4c0074c-40c7-e335-0126-414a879003a1@comcast.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>
 <ab88b185-35e5-4bd9-a8a0-f497a64331f8@comcast.net>
 <20200305073427.GA15714@gjcp.net>
 <c4c0074c-40c7-e335-0126-414a879003a1@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2d909dbe-38b9-3f84-e169-dd1f2c65adda@gmx.de>


"Setup generator"

these visual MCU configurators several vendors now offer don't just
generate init code for the hardware, they also manage used modules in
the way that you can't accidentally use stuff that would conflict (e.g.
due to special function mux combination restrictions or what have you).
Also, in the ST CubeMX stuff, the clock tree view with all the warning
labels when something is out of bounds somewhere are helpful.

The stuff  does run on Linux, as does their IDE, which is basically
their bought out Atollic TrueStudio, an Eclipse fork with some added
nieceties for embedded dev.

I briefy tried this sort of stuff in PIC world (MPLAB X), and their spit
out library / config code is buggy and is a close runner up for the Rube
Goldberg Award with ST's HAL code. (I have nothing against justified
complexity. I don't like signs of "let's try this architecture concept I
heard about in class lately, as that means 'it's good', right?")

Although ST's stuff at least wasn't outright buggy for me so far and
mostly just works - talking bare dev boards (Nucleo, Discovery) here,
none of the special boards demoing other ICs and having an MCU as an aide.
If you select in Cube MX to generate "LL" instead of "HAL" based init
code, what you will get is a lot more lean code and closer to what you'd
do anyway if you were on your own, just that you don't have to look up
all the quirky details and internal dependencies of the particular
hardware, or, as much, let's say..


As things currently are, I can understand why a lot of folks still say
"just look up the damn registers and code the init stuff yourself".

Looking at the bigger picture, it is kinda insane, tough, that basically
tens of thousands of developers are practically implementing the exact
same code, that's just a readable wrapper around the hardware features,
and initially stumbling over a few things and burning time.
On aggregate, this is quite a bad impact on economy, "needlessly".
Contrasted to the sane scenario - if ONE entity does this sh1t ONCE, and
most sensibly that one entity is closely tied to the HW manufacturer,
who will not stumble upon anything and burn time due to
misunderstandings, because they have close ties to the people designing
the HW.
(also, the HW errata (of actually released revs) may turn out smaller
than otherwise, if they did that, haw haw. Trying to actually eat their
dry dogfood.)

So, ideally, in my book, there should be vendor made libraries for it all.
But... to this day, this stuff seems to be made by a mix of interns and
the the new hire out of college, because the HW-biased tech management
people think "aw, well, some libraries that need to be consistent and
stable over time and should have not silly pitfalls by confusing
features and be understood by a million or so - how hard can it be?
Let's better not spend real money on that." Or maybe "It's only
important that the NON-tech managers of our clients, who don't
understand the difference between libraries and stuff that just looks
like them, will choose our product because they think half the work is
done already. So let's spend money at best for that requirement! (those
poor bastards who get handed this by their boss and have to explain why
it's not as easy as promised, muahahahahaha *Dr. Evil manic laughing
committee sounds*)".



Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
> Gordon,
>
> Setup generator. A number of the Eclipse based environments have
> windows that show the processor or board that you've selected. You can
> then select a multi-use pin and say it's a serial or SPI or ...
> interface. It will then generate setup code and load a driver for that
> pin/peripheral. I usually go through the drivers and sometime the
> setup code after it's generated to clean up, optimize and fix.
>
> Other than doing  Arduino boards directly the Arduino IDE isn't
> something I would use. For me it's pretty much way at the bottom of
> the list because as you said it limits what you can do easily and it's
> not really C.
>
> Interrupts can be tricky but a lot depends on what your doing, the
> resources available and the timing requirements. Some times you can do
> every thing in the ISR, sometimes a DPC (Deferred Procedure Call, even
> though this is a Windows thing you do it else where too), sometimes
> semaphores/mutexes are needed, sometimes queues are needed and on and on.
>
> Happy coding.
> Jay S.
>
> On 3/4/2020 11:34 PM, Gordonjcp wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 04, 2020 at 03:08:52PM -0800, Jay Schwichtenberg wrote:
>>> Gordon,
>>>
>>> That works. But I would prefer an environment that has some sort of
>>> setup
>>> generator.
>>>
>> Not sure what you mean by "setup generator"?
>>
>>> I've found that typically if you have to write setup code and
>>> drivers for
>>> the peripherals you use that can take significantly more time then
>>> writing
>>> the application. That being said I usually leave the setup code
>>> alone and
>> If you're using the Arduino libraries you'll very soon run up against
>> limitations that stem from making it "easy to use" and "works on
>> everything" that get in the way of "doesn't do weird shit".
>>
>> For ARM you really need to look at libopencm3, but I'm not sure if
>> anything similar exists for AVR8.
>>
>> On AVR8 I tend to end up writing everything on bare metal eventually
>> without using anything more than stdlib functions, particularly for
>> things like interrupt handlers where I've generally got a very very
>> specific thing I want it to do - like, for serial interrupts, if it's
>> handling MIDI it has to do the MIDI clock task *right now* right
>> there in the handler, and not queue that byte.
>>
>> Trying to do DSP on an 8-bit 16MHz chip that has only add, subtract
>> and 8x8 unsigned multiply is quite a challenge, and the only reason I
>> bother writing synth code for AVR8 is probably the same reason I like
>> Rubik cubes.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy





From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 02:26:54 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 19:26:54 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <2d909dbe-38b9-3f84-e169-dd1f2c65adda@gmx.de>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>
 <ab88b185-35e5-4bd9-a8a0-f497a64331f8@comcast.net>
 <20200305073427.GA15714@gjcp.net>
 <c4c0074c-40c7-e335-0126-414a879003a1@comcast.net>
 <2d909dbe-38b9-3f84-e169-dd1f2c65adda@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <CACodTR_o1y3yKgk3PnBQQxsNwBEV3osx3crGq2oAAPpvEV4kQg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 6:32 PM <sleepy_dog at gmx.de> wrote:

>
>
> So, ideally, in my book, there should be vendor made libraries for it all.
> But... to this day, this stuff seems to be made by a mix of interns and
> the the new hire out of college, because the HW-biased tech management
> people think "aw, well, some libraries that need to be consistent and
> stable over time and should have not silly pitfalls by confusing
> features and be understood by a million or so - how hard can it be?
> Let's better not spend real money on that."


It's not sexy work.  It's not going to quickly advance your career to do
the relatively boring stuff that your management won't appreciate three
importance of, and if it's done well it recedes into the background.  Of
course it gets shoved off to the interns and offshores....



>
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From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 03:23:00 2020
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 21:23:00 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OBXa Memory problems
In-Reply-To: <dd9a80e2-eadb-6f20-cb13-f51b7d68056d@gmail.com>
References: <dd9a80e2-eadb-6f20-cb13-f51b7d68056d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UCn6J9QL3RRmbXWCxxX8v_OC8JtRZVGxU-M123pMTSRvw@mail.gmail.com>

CPUs can go bad even though the synth "works".  I had a bad Z80 in a
Memorymoog where autotune wouldn't work although everything else did.
That was an evil failure.

Are you SURE the address/data lines are TRULY working?  Unless you can
record the activity with a logic analyzer, a 'scope doesn't tell you
that much.  I'd check the buffers for the address/data lines.  Look at
the R/W and enable pins too.  Check that the IC generating the enable
line(s) is not simultaneously enabling another line, that will corrupt
data out of memory.  Check the rails at the ICs not just the power
buss.  ANYTHING that touches those ICs.

You might have write-only memory.  I had a bad RAM IC on an OBSX.

Diagnosing corrupt data lines is what separates the men from the boys.
Not easy.

MC

On 3/5/20, gm <montalbanogm at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm currently dealing with an OBXa that was working, but is now
> exhibiting memory problems.
>
> The ADC is working:? all switches & pots can be used to set a patch.
> Holding down Write & selecting a patch location will let the patch play,
> but as soon as the patch is reselected or another patch is selected, all
> patch data goes back to random.
>
> Some givens:? all power rails are clean and correct; all address & data
> lines are present; ROMs, RAM and CPU have been swapped out with no
> change.? This unit is one of the early upgrades, with the piggyback
> memory board, running version XAC0 in 2716 ROMs.
>
> Since all ICs are socketed, I swapped out A117 and A115 and tested the
> memory protect switch -- switch grounds A117 pin 1 as it should when
> engaged, and releases ground when turned off.
>
> I have the feeling I'm missing something stupidly obvious here, and
> would appreciate any pointers as to where I can look next.
>
> Thanks.
> ~GMM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From electrocontinuo at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 03:33:10 2020
From: electrocontinuo at gmail.com (Peter Pearson)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 21:33:10 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] OBXa Memory problems
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UCn6J9QL3RRmbXWCxxX8v_OC8JtRZVGxU-M123pMTSRvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd9a80e2-eadb-6f20-cb13-f51b7d68056d@gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UCn6J9QL3RRmbXWCxxX8v_OC8JtRZVGxU-M123pMTSRvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+qbVc_iO1VcwLEoUjEeNuCN94bbaM6rA3j0kOzxiqLqyrsWMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah I usually replace the chip select ICs on those as a matter of course

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 9:25 PM Michael E Caloroso <mec.forumreader at gmail.com>
wrote:

> CPUs can go bad even though the synth "works".  I had a bad Z80 in a
> Memorymoog where autotune wouldn't work although everything else did.
> That was an evil failure.
>
> Are you SURE the address/data lines are TRULY working?  Unless you can
> record the activity with a logic analyzer, a 'scope doesn't tell you
> that much.  I'd check the buffers for the address/data lines.  Look at
> the R/W and enable pins too.  Check that the IC generating the enable
> line(s) is not simultaneously enabling another line, that will corrupt
> data out of memory.  Check the rails at the ICs not just the power
> buss.  ANYTHING that touches those ICs.
>
> You might have write-only memory.  I had a bad RAM IC on an OBSX.
>
> Diagnosing corrupt data lines is what separates the men from the boys.
> Not easy.
>
> MC
>
> On 3/5/20, gm <montalbanogm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm currently dealing with an OBXa that was working, but is now
> > exhibiting memory problems.
> >
> > The ADC is working:  all switches & pots can be used to set a patch.
> > Holding down Write & selecting a patch location will let the patch play,
> > but as soon as the patch is reselected or another patch is selected, all
> > patch data goes back to random.
> >
> > Some givens:  all power rails are clean and correct; all address & data
> > lines are present; ROMs, RAM and CPU have been swapped out with no
> > change.  This unit is one of the early upgrades, with the piggyback
> > memory board, running version XAC0 in 2716 ROMs.
> >
> > Since all ICs are socketed, I swapped out A117 and A115 and tested the
> > memory protect switch -- switch grounds A117 pin 1 as it should when
> > engaged, and releases ground when turned off.
> >
> > I have the feeling I'm missing something stupidly obvious here, and
> > would appreciate any pointers as to where I can look next.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > ~GMM
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From synth at schmitzbits.de  Fri Mar  6 10:47:42 2020
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 10:47:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <2d909dbe-38b9-3f84-e169-dd1f2c65adda@gmx.de>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>
 <ab88b185-35e5-4bd9-a8a0-f497a64331f8@comcast.net>
 <20200305073427.GA15714@gjcp.net>
 <c4c0074c-40c7-e335-0126-414a879003a1@comcast.net>
 <2d909dbe-38b9-3f84-e169-dd1f2c65adda@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <8f101ae1-3b72-cdae-eb49-cfc52652ec2e@schmitzbits.de>

On 06.03.2020 01:30, sleepy_dog at gmx.de wrote:
> 
> "Setup generator"

> 
> I briefy tried this sort of stuff in PIC world (MPLAB X), and their spit
> out library / config code is buggy and is a close runner up for the Rube
> Goldberg Award with ST's HAL code. (I have nothing against justified
> complexity. I don't like signs of "let's try this architecture concept I
> heard about in class lately, as that means 'it's good', right?")

:) Overengineered software: Then the next guy comes in, he throws it all 
out, or creates another layer to make sense of it. (Or to claim it as his.)

> Although ST's stuff at least wasn't outright buggy for me so far and
> mostly just works - talking bare dev boards (Nucleo, Discovery) here,
> none of the special boards demoing other ICs and having an MCU as an aide.
> If you select in Cube MX to generate "LL" instead of "HAL" based init
> code, what you will get is a lot more lean code and closer to what you'd
> do anyway if you were on your own, just that you don't have to look up
> all the quirky details and internal dependencies of the particular
> hardware, or, as much, let's say..

Cube MX so far has worked for me, which couldn't be said of 
Atmel/Microchips ASF Advanced Software Framework.


> As things currently are, I can understand why a lot of folks still say
> "just look up the damn registers and code the init stuff yourself".

Yes, but some of the middleware drivers are way beyond that, say USB 
CDC... You don't code+debug this from scratch easily.

> Looking at the bigger picture, it is kinda insane, tough, that basically
> tens of thousands of developers are practically implementing the exact
> same code, that's just a readable wrapper around the hardware features,
> and initially stumbling over a few things and burning time.
> On aggregate, this is quite a bad impact on economy, "needlessly".
> Contrasted to the sane scenario - if ONE entity does this sh1t ONCE, and
> most sensibly that one entity is closely tied to the HW manufacturer,
> who will not stumble upon anything and burn time due to
> misunderstandings, because they have close ties to the people designing
> the HW.
> (also, the HW errata (of actually released revs) may turn out smaller
> than otherwise, if they did that, haw haw. Trying to actually eat their
> dry dogfood.)


I think that it would be a start sense if the HW designers would work 
together with application software people, so that the HW is consistent 
across a family. Say the registers of peripherals work the same....
No, sometimes every member of a product family has its own little quirks.

> Let's better not spend real money on that." Or maybe "It's only
> important that the NON-tech managers of our clients, who don't
> understand the difference between libraries and stuff that just looks
> like them, will choose our product because they think half the work is
> done already. So let's spend money at best for that requirement! (those
> poor bastards who get handed this by their boss and have to explain why
> it's not as easy as promised, muahahahahaha *Dr. Evil manic laughing
> committee sounds*)".

You nailed it right there. It's all over the SW industry.

Best,
  Ren?

--
synth at schmitzbits.de
http://schmitzbits.de


From nathan at idmclassics.net  Fri Mar  6 21:26:32 2020
From: nathan at idmclassics.net (Nathan Trites)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 15:26:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha DX1/DX5 parts?
Message-ID: <CAHy3N6AUjGRsCk84hoT=swZuohPR5VAhYiA-uKT0iVKEsrvgFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone, I know it's a bit of a long shot, but I'm looking for a few
parts used on a DX1 or DX5 .

Specifically the tall/narrow profile ALPS switches used on the front panel,
and some of the blue switch caps with LED windows. The switches are more
important and if necessary I could have someone model and 3d print the
caps.

I've scoured old ALPS, Omron, and e-switch catalogs looking for something
similar for the switches and I'm coming up blank, but haven't managed to
find any mid-80s catalogs yet. They're extremely narrow/tall and have a
frame that holds them in groups, though mechanically they're all totally
independent.

Also curious if anyone knows about these rubber actuators that they used on
the wooden key bed, or where I could find more. All of them have a white
crust which I can't tell if it's intentional or not, or if it's some kind
of dried lubricant.

Photos of both: https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS

Thank you for any assistance!

Nathan
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From nathan at idmclassics.net  Sat Mar  7 00:03:49 2020
From: nathan at idmclassics.net (Nathan Trites)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 18:03:49 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha DX1/DX5 parts?
In-Reply-To: <CAHy3N6AUjGRsCk84hoT=swZuohPR5VAhYiA-uKT0iVKEsrvgFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHy3N6AUjGRsCk84hoT=swZuohPR5VAhYiA-uKT0iVKEsrvgFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHy3N6A+D6ZbcyzpevYvKb36hi+NaVWveFEHeH8OawcuWdq=FQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rob at Audiocircus responded off list that these look like the same ALPS
switches used in the Jupiter 6, which appears to be correct!

Documenting here that these are presumably identical to the switches in
the: Jupiter-6, MKS-80, PG-200, EP-50, HP-100

If that's incorrect I'll update the thread when I get some. I got a few
other responses about Yamaha parts sources but don't mind more :)

Thanks! - Nathan

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 3:26 PM Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:

> Hi everyone, I know it's a bit of a long shot, but I'm looking for a few
> parts used on a DX1 or DX5 .
>
> Specifically the tall/narrow profile ALPS switches used on the front
> panel, and some of the blue switch caps with LED windows. The switches are
> more important and if necessary I could have someone model and 3d print the
> caps.
>
> I've scoured old ALPS, Omron, and e-switch catalogs looking for something
> similar for the switches and I'm coming up blank, but haven't managed to
> find any mid-80s catalogs yet. They're extremely narrow/tall and have a
> frame that holds them in groups, though mechanically they're all totally
> independent.
>
> Also curious if anyone knows about these rubber actuators that they used
> on the wooden key bed, or where I could find more. All of them have a white
> crust which I can't tell if it's intentional or not, or if it's some kind
> of dried lubricant.
>
> Photos of both: https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS
>
> Thank you for any assistance!
>
> Nathan
>
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From synthdiy at adambaby.com  Sat Mar  7 07:20:32 2020
From: synthdiy at adambaby.com (Adam Inglis (sdiy))
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 16:20:32 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Yamaha DX1/DX5 parts?
In-Reply-To: <CAHy3N6AUjGRsCk84hoT=swZuohPR5VAhYiA-uKT0iVKEsrvgFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHy3N6AUjGRsCk84hoT=swZuohPR5VAhYiA-uKT0iVKEsrvgFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9DF811B4-B48D-4902-A30E-98805BAFA14E@adambaby.com>

Thanks Nathan, those pics are interesting. With that long metal support bar it makes for a substantial switch mount arrangement (and I would?ve thought fairly expensive too). Are most of the switches still working?

Adam

> On 7 Mar 2020, at 6:26 am, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone, I know it's a bit of a long shot, but I'm looking for a few parts used on a DX1 or DX5 .
> 
> Specifically the tall/narrow profile ALPS switches used on the front panel, and some of the blue switch caps with LED windows. The switches are more important and if necessary I could have someone model and 3d print the caps. 
> 
> I've scoured old ALPS, Omron, and e-switch catalogs looking for something similar for the switches and I'm coming up blank, but haven't managed to find any mid-80s catalogs yet. They're extremely narrow/tall and have a frame that holds them in groups, though mechanically they're all totally independent. 
> 
> Also curious if anyone knows about these rubber actuators that they used on the wooden key bed, or where I could find more. All of them have a white crust which I can't tell if it's intentional or not, or if it's some kind of dried lubricant. 
> 
> Photos of both: https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS <https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS> 
> 
> Thank you for any assistance!
> 
> Nathan
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Sat Mar  7 10:47:18 2020
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 10:47:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning?
Message-ID: <23A7F3D6-A71A-40B1-AFE9-88D29AF25BF4@blauwurf.info>

Hi,
seeing this photos from the DX1/DX5 parts thread, I?m wondering how to safely clean such boards?
    https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS 

Also asking, because there are open mechanical parts involved, so just rinsing the pcbs is apparently not an option?

Thanks, Michael.


From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Sat Mar  7 16:20:28 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 09:20:28 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning?
In-Reply-To: <23A7F3D6-A71A-40B1-AFE9-88D29AF25BF4@blauwurf.info>
References: <23A7F3D6-A71A-40B1-AFE9-88D29AF25BF4@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <CACodTR_hZYytpZ6V3B1x-rbLcp2tR+f+OKAkqQbBSGLXVk5D1Q@mail.gmail.com>

There's a video out there of Kevin Lightner, a well regarded synth tech,
washing synth boards with simple green and a shower, and then immediately
blowing them dry with compressed air.  He's one of many notables no longer
with us, unfortunately.  There's the usual caveat of don't try this if you
don't know what you're doing, but I have always wanted to try it out with
one of my own cheaper project synths that is obviously suffering from too
much dirt.

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 3:51 AM Michael Zacherl <sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info>
wrote:

> Hi,
> seeing this photos from the DX1/DX5 parts thread, I?m wondering how to
> safely clean such boards?
>     https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS
>
> Also asking, because there are open mechanical parts involved, so just
> rinsing the pcbs is apparently not an option?
>
> Thanks, Michael.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Sat Mar  7 18:44:36 2020
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 09:44:36 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning?
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR_hZYytpZ6V3B1x-rbLcp2tR+f+OKAkqQbBSGLXVk5D1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <23A7F3D6-A71A-40B1-AFE9-88D29AF25BF4@blauwurf.info>
 <CACodTR_hZYytpZ6V3B1x-rbLcp2tR+f+OKAkqQbBSGLXVk5D1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D2463B8FE24432F8C97D7A7583B492F@david78c70950b>

I washed all the bits of a whiteface ARP Odyssey that was unbelievably
filthy in my kitchen sink with hot water and dishwashing liquid.  It worked
great.  The synth works very well.

 

I'm with the late, great Kevin Lightner - you can't really hurt analog
electronics by washing them like the dishes.  Just make sure they are
properly dry before powering anything up.  Of course, anything with a
digital display is probably off limits for this.

 

  _____  

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Pete
Hartman
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 7:20 AM
To: Michael Zacherl
Cc: SYNTH DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Cleaning?

 

There's a video out there of Kevin Lightner, a well regarded synth tech,
washing synth boards with simple green and a shower, and then immediately
blowing them dry with compressed air.  He's one of many notables no longer
with us, unfortunately.  There's the usual caveat of don't try this if you
don't know what you're doing, but I have always wanted to try it out with
one of my own cheaper project synths that is obviously suffering from too
much dirt.

 

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 3:51 AM Michael Zacherl <sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info>
wrote:

Hi,
seeing this photos from the DX1/DX5 parts thread, I'm wondering how to
safely clean such boards?
    https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS 

Also asking, because there are open mechanical parts involved, so just
rinsing the pcbs is apparently not an option?

Thanks, Michael.
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From thx1138 at earthlink.net  Sat Mar  7 19:32:04 2020
From: thx1138 at earthlink.net (TERRY SHULTZ)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 10:32:04 -0800
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning?
In-Reply-To: <8D2463B8FE24432F8C97D7A7583B492F@david78c70950b>
References: <23A7F3D6-A71A-40B1-AFE9-88D29AF25BF4@blauwurf.info>
 <CACodTR_hZYytpZ6V3B1x-rbLcp2tR+f+OKAkqQbBSGLXVk5D1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D2463B8FE24432F8C97D7A7583B492F@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <F109B448-A896-41A1-9CFA-BAF1DF1F55E7@earthlink.net>

This unit is pretty Dirty, EBOLA hazard?

We might have some parts still for this unit or a dead board that could be cannabalized.

My partner , Paul Morte of Paul Morte Technical Service in Orange, Calif. is the right person to ask, Paul is the Nation Service Center for Yamaha

I will be at the shop on Monday if you wish to call me. +1-562-355-4699, We also have User/Service Manuals and parts for Yamaha usually in stock, CS80 parts are getting almost 
Impossible to obtain.

Regards,

Terry

> On Mar 7, 2020, at 9:44 AM, David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:
> 
> I washed all the bits of a whiteface ARP Odyssey that was unbelievably filthy in my kitchen sink with hot water and dishwashing liquid.  It worked great.  The synth works very well.
>  
> I?m with the late, great Kevin Lightner ? you can?t really hurt analog electronics by washing them like the dishes.  Just make sure they are properly dry before powering anything up.  Of course, anything with a digital display is probably off limits for this.
>  
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>] On Behalf Of Pete Hartman
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 7:20 AM
> To: Michael Zacherl
> Cc: SYNTH DIY
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Cleaning?
>  
> There's a video out there of Kevin Lightner, a well regarded synth tech, washing synth boards with simple green and a shower, and then immediately blowing them dry with compressed air.  He's one of many notables no longer with us, unfortunately.  There's the usual caveat of don't try this if you don't know what you're doing, but I have always wanted to try it out with one of my own cheaper project synths that is obviously suffering from too much dirt.
>  
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 3:51 AM Michael Zacherl <sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info <mailto:sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info>> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> seeing this photos from the DX1/DX5 parts thread, I?m wondering how to safely clean such boards?
>>     https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS <https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS> 
>> 
>> Also asking, because there are open mechanical parts involved, so just rinsing the pcbs is apparently not an option?
>> 
>> Thanks, Michael.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>_______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
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From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 06:49:59 2020
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 00:49:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning?
In-Reply-To: <F109B448-A896-41A1-9CFA-BAF1DF1F55E7@earthlink.net>
References: <23A7F3D6-A71A-40B1-AFE9-88D29AF25BF4@blauwurf.info>
 <CACodTR_hZYytpZ6V3B1x-rbLcp2tR+f+OKAkqQbBSGLXVk5D1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <8D2463B8FE24432F8C97D7A7583B492F@david78c70950b>
 <F109B448-A896-41A1-9CFA-BAF1DF1F55E7@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UALVinZp=pisPa0rxVUsBzkPZ9tUVq3=xxRQQAA4hfMww@mail.gmail.com>

There are some things that cannot be cleaned.  While in the market for
an OBX years ago, one popped up on the 'bay that had been stored in a
shed and rodents had urinated on the PC boards.  That was a dealkiller
as rodent urine is a serious toxin which absorbs into PC boards like a
sponge, and you will NEVER get that stuff out.

MC

On 3/7/20, TERRY SHULTZ <thx1138 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> This unit is pretty Dirty, EBOLA hazard?
>
> We might have some parts still for this unit or a dead board that could be
> cannabalized.
>
> My partner , Paul Morte of Paul Morte Technical Service in Orange, Calif. is
> the right person to ask, Paul is the Nation Service Center for Yamaha
>
> I will be at the shop on Monday if you wish to call me. +1-562-355-4699, We
> also have User/Service Manuals and parts for Yamaha usually in stock, CS80
> parts are getting almost
> Impossible to obtain.
>
> Regards,
>
> Terry
>
>> On Mar 7, 2020, at 9:44 AM, David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:
>>
>> I washed all the bits of a whiteface ARP Odyssey that was unbelievably
>> filthy in my kitchen sink with hot water and dishwashing liquid.  It
>> worked great.  The synth works very well.
>>
>> I?m with the late, great Kevin Lightner ? you can?t really hurt analog
>> electronics by washing them like the dishes.  Just make sure they are
>> properly dry before powering anything up.  Of course, anything with a
>> digital display is probably off limits for this.
>>
>> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
>> <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>] On Behalf Of Pete Hartman
>> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2020 7:20 AM
>> To: Michael Zacherl
>> Cc: SYNTH DIY
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Cleaning?
>>
>> There's a video out there of Kevin Lightner, a well regarded synth tech,
>> washing synth boards with simple green and a shower, and then immediately
>> blowing them dry with compressed air.  He's one of many notables no longer
>> with us, unfortunately.  There's the usual caveat of don't try this if you
>> don't know what you're doing, but I have always wanted to try it out with
>> one of my own cheaper project synths that is obviously suffering from too
>> much dirt.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 3:51 AM Michael Zacherl <sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info
>> <mailto:sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> seeing this photos from the DX1/DX5 parts thread, I?m wondering how to
>>> safely clean such boards?
>>>     https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS <https://imgur.com/a/m8NocSS>
>>>
>>> Also asking, because there are open mechanical parts involved, so just
>>> rinsing the pcbs is apparently not an option?
>>>
>>> Thanks, Michael.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>_______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
>



From igg.debus at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 11:39:49 2020
From: igg.debus at gmail.com (Ingo Debus)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 11:39:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <c4c0074c-40c7-e335-0126-414a879003a1@comcast.net>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>
 <ab88b185-35e5-4bd9-a8a0-f497a64331f8@comcast.net>
 <20200305073427.GA15714@gjcp.net>
 <c4c0074c-40c7-e335-0126-414a879003a1@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <10750673-627D-4B27-9B10-2311D825B383@gmail.com>

[Arduino]
> Am 05.03.2020 um 23:06 schrieb Jay Schwichtenberg <jschwich53 at comcast.net>:
> 
> and it's not really C.

The language used in Arduino sketches is C++, no?

Ingo


From vladoman at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 15:58:44 2020
From: vladoman at gmail.com (Vladimir Pantelic)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 15:58:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] OT: uC Development Environments
In-Reply-To: <10750673-627D-4B27-9B10-2311D825B383@gmail.com>
References: <fff66d67-95fa-ddef-62b2-8c1b6aedc160@comcast.net>
 <20200304221619.GA15537@gjcp.net>
 <ab88b185-35e5-4bd9-a8a0-f497a64331f8@comcast.net>
 <20200305073427.GA15714@gjcp.net>
 <c4c0074c-40c7-e335-0126-414a879003a1@comcast.net>
 <10750673-627D-4B27-9B10-2311D825B383@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d83baa1-8bd9-8c4e-a9ca-b3fcc9c313e2@gmail.com>

On 08/03/2020 11:39, Ingo Debus wrote:
> [Arduino]
>> Am 05.03.2020 um 23:06 schrieb Jay Schwichtenberg <jschwich53 at comcast.net>:
>>
>> and it's not really C.
> 
> The language used in Arduino sketches is C++, no?

yes





From lenakolb2204 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 20:23:12 2020
From: lenakolb2204 at gmail.com (Lena Kolb)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 20:23:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
Message-ID: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, I'm completely new to this complete topic of DIY Synthesizers. Does
anyone has some tips for getting started
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From quincas at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 20:33:40 2020
From: quincas at gmail.com (Quincas Moreira)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 13:33:40 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+u0JtnmDYvkBmBt_J2P5mHOkD78Qzf=AigQuzBCzu0x=04WQg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi and welcome Lena!
You may find interesting info and tutorials in my channel devoted to the
subject: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaTca38SJErVLsfYkrg2R9w

Also search for Music From Outer Space, Yusynth, Casper Electronics,
KristianBlasol....

Lots of great info online!

Cheers

Quincas

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 1:26 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, I'm completely new to this complete topic of DIY Synthesizers. Does
> anyone has some tips for getting started
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


-- 
[image: QMA]

Quincas Moreira
Director | QMA
mobile:  5534988825
site:  quincasmoreira.com
email:  quincas at gmail.com
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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 20:39:11 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:39:11 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CA+u0JtnmDYvkBmBt_J2P5mHOkD78Qzf=AigQuzBCzu0x=04WQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+u0JtnmDYvkBmBt_J2P5mHOkD78Qzf=AigQuzBCzu0x=04WQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR9TGgkn+0QaF5NO3Y+ZOSiRp3LswTCodiiwbX_Ge8+p1w@mail.gmail.com>

If you prefer books to websites, Make: Analog Synthesizers was written by
Ray Wilson who created Music From Outer Space, Handmade Electronic Music by
Nicolas Collins is well regarded, and then there are a number of older
books that can still usually be found, some of them may even be at your
local library.

Pete

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 2:35 PM Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi and welcome Lena!
> You may find interesting info and tutorials in my channel devoted to the
> subject: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaTca38SJErVLsfYkrg2R9w
>
> Also search for Music From Outer Space, Yusynth, Casper Electronics,
> KristianBlasol....
>
> Lots of great info online!
>
> Cheers
>
> Quincas
>
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 1:26 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello, I'm completely new to this complete topic of DIY Synthesizers.
>> Does anyone has some tips for getting started
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
> --
> [image: QMA]
>
> Quincas Moreira
> Director | QMA
> mobile:  5534988825
> site:  quincasmoreira.com
> email:  quincas at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From sam.carswell593 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 11:10:10 2020
From: sam.carswell593 at gmail.com (Sam Carswell)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 23:10:10 +1300
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR9TGgkn+0QaF5NO3Y+ZOSiRp3LswTCodiiwbX_Ge8+p1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+u0JtnmDYvkBmBt_J2P5mHOkD78Qzf=AigQuzBCzu0x=04WQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR9TGgkn+0QaF5NO3Y+ZOSiRp3LswTCodiiwbX_Ge8+p1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+kAFtckOZbEkQ=qamTmHDc_HeRG43dBMznWiuKjtb7bQxOBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lena,

A couple years back, when I was first diving into this too, I made a list
of the things online that I had found approachable and helpful. Some of
them go into lots of detail and others just focus on getting you to build
something simple and fun. Out of all of them, the ones that have really
lasted for me are Handmade Electronic Music and Logic Noise (there's links
to them via my list). Couldn't recommend them more. I found they walked a
really good line between not getting too intimidating too quick, but also
explaining what's happening at a deeper level in a really clear, concise
way.

You can find the list here:
https://pheromone-party.tumblr.com/links

Hope something in there helps ?

Cheers,
Sam


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 8:40 AM Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com> wrote:

> If you prefer books to websites, Make: Analog Synthesizers was written by
> Ray Wilson who created Music From Outer Space, Handmade Electronic Music by
> Nicolas Collins is well regarded, and then there are a number of older
> books that can still usually be found, some of them may even be at your
> local library.
>
> Pete
>
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 2:35 PM Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi and welcome Lena!
>> You may find interesting info and tutorials in my channel devoted to the
>> subject: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaTca38SJErVLsfYkrg2R9w
>>
>> Also search for Music From Outer Space, Yusynth, Casper Electronics,
>> KristianBlasol....
>>
>> Lots of great info online!
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Quincas
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 1:26 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I'm completely new to this complete topic of DIY Synthesizers.
>>> Does anyone has some tips for getting started
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: QMA]
>>
>> Quincas Moreira
>> Director | QMA
>> mobile:  5534988825
>> site:  quincasmoreira.com
>> email:  quincas at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Mon Mar  9 11:52:55 2020
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 11:52:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>

Hi

what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?

It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether you 
are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.

Florian

Am 08.03.20 um 20:23 schrieb Lena Kolb:
> Hello, I'm completely new to this complete topic of DIY Synthesizers. 
> Does anyone has some tips for getting started
>


From shawnrakestraw at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 13:34:52 2020
From: shawnrakestraw at gmail.com (Shawn Rakestraw)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 08:34:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <CA+-UNiCcBABKn025uWeoZQn-3UuFd_4uuVti9bbzygB9sCkQ6Q@mail.gmail.com>

There are these classes from this guy Aaron Lanterman on YouTube. He is (or
was) a professor at Georgia Tech. I learned a lot from watching them when I
was first learning about op-amps and the basics. Unfortunately, I cannot
remember how to find them. Perhaps someone else knows what I am talking
about and has a link to them.

- Shawn

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 6:51 AM Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de>
wrote:

> Hi
>
> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?
>
> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether you
> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>
> Florian
>
> Am 08.03.20 um 20:23 schrieb Lena Kolb:
> > Hello, I'm completely new to this complete topic of DIY Synthesizers.
> > Does anyone has some tips for getting started
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 13:38:24 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 07:38:24 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CA+-UNiCcBABKn025uWeoZQn-3UuFd_4uuVti9bbzygB9sCkQ6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CA+-UNiCcBABKn025uWeoZQn-3UuFd_4uuVti9bbzygB9sCkQ6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR_-G+eGcvA7Z0RCV+897j_TGc88JtyGbOMfzHGXdWi_Zw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 7:36 AM Shawn Rakestraw <shawnrakestraw at gmail.com>
wrote:

> There are these classes from this guy Aaron Lanterman on YouTube. He is
> (or was) a professor at Georgia Tech. I learned a lot from watching them
> when I was first learning about op-amps and the basics. Unfortunately, I
> cannot remember how to find them. Perhaps someone else knows what I am
> talking about and has a link to them.
>

Indeed :)  https://www.youtube.com/user/xyzkennedy/playlists

Private playlists. which is why you can't find them.

Pete
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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 13:38:51 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 07:38:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR_-G+eGcvA7Z0RCV+897j_TGc88JtyGbOMfzHGXdWi_Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CA+-UNiCcBABKn025uWeoZQn-3UuFd_4uuVti9bbzygB9sCkQ6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR_-G+eGcvA7Z0RCV+897j_TGc88JtyGbOMfzHGXdWi_Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR_4r2XWx1aoN1LU5KUTUubarLrkk5vdxmFXcQmdx=Zchg@mail.gmail.com>

BTW Aaron participates here, and yes he is still a professor at GA Tech.

Pete

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 7:38 AM Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 7:36 AM Shawn Rakestraw <shawnrakestraw at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> There are these classes from this guy Aaron Lanterman on YouTube. He is
>> (or was) a professor at Georgia Tech. I learned a lot from watching them
>> when I was first learning about op-amps and the basics. Unfortunately, I
>> cannot remember how to find them. Perhaps someone else knows what I am
>> talking about and has a link to them.
>>
>
> Indeed :)  https://www.youtube.com/user/xyzkennedy/playlists
>
> Private playlists. which is why you can't find them.
>
> Pete
>
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From shawnrakestraw at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 13:49:08 2020
From: shawnrakestraw at gmail.com (Shawn Rakestraw)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 08:49:08 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR_4r2XWx1aoN1LU5KUTUubarLrkk5vdxmFXcQmdx=Zchg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CA+-UNiCcBABKn025uWeoZQn-3UuFd_4uuVti9bbzygB9sCkQ6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR_-G+eGcvA7Z0RCV+897j_TGc88JtyGbOMfzHGXdWi_Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR_4r2XWx1aoN1LU5KUTUubarLrkk5vdxmFXcQmdx=Zchg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+-UNiAsVcSN1b0+YLffjdhgr96aAr6dqy6jhmvConag=h3uyQ@mail.gmail.com>

That's awesome. I am in the Atlanta area myself and I tried to reach out to
him through twitter and facebook, but had very little luck getting through
to him.

- Shawn

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 8:39 AM Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com> wrote:

> BTW Aaron participates here, and yes he is still a professor at GA Tech.
>
> Pete
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 7:38 AM Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 7:36 AM Shawn Rakestraw <shawnrakestraw at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There are these classes from this guy Aaron Lanterman on YouTube. He is
>>> (or was) a professor at Georgia Tech. I learned a lot from watching them
>>> when I was first learning about op-amps and the basics. Unfortunately, I
>>> cannot remember how to find them. Perhaps someone else knows what I am
>>> talking about and has a link to them.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed :)  https://www.youtube.com/user/xyzkennedy/playlists
>>
>> Private playlists. which is why you can't find them.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>
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From jdec at mindspring.com  Mon Mar  9 14:00:13 2020
From: jdec at mindspring.com (BrightBoy)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 09:00:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
Message-ID: <1024819679.810.1583758813575@wamui-boogie.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

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From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Mon Mar  9 15:42:23 2020
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 07:42:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A30C409C35734CF2BF2A418FE1599846@david78c70950b>

I recommend Music From Outer Space.  That's how I started, and it got me
going very quickly.  There are tons of circuits, many of them quite good,
and they are all explained in detail.  For me, MFOS is the best online
synth-electronics learning resource, by far.

 

  _____  

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Lena
Kolb
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2020 12:23 PM
To: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths

 

Hello, I'm completely new to this complete topic of DIY Synthesizers. Does
anyone has some tips for getting started 

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From shedsynth at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 17:01:12 2020
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 16:01:12 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <A30C409C35734CF2BF2A418FE1599846@david78c70950b>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A30C409C35734CF2BF2A418FE1599846@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <00c501d5f62b$f50304a0$df090de0$@gmail.com>

Hi Lena.

My personal start 2 years ago was an Arduino microcontroller to output a
square wave using the tone() function.

If you go that route, the book "Arduino for Musicians" by Brent Edstrom was
useful.

 

The first filter I built was this:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-45231.html

It works surprisingly well for something so simple, and is happy on either
the single 9V shown or +/-12V dual rail.

 

I use perfboard with single plated-through holes and make wire connections
between every component.

Here's an early example:

https://shedsynth.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/vca-side.jpg

 

Have fun, whatever you do.

Al

 

  _____  

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Lena
Kolb
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2020 12:23 PM
To: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> 
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths

 

Hello, I'm completely new to this complete topic of DIY Synthesizers. Does
anyone has some tips for getting started 

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From montalbanogm at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 18:12:40 2020
From: montalbanogm at gmail.com (gm)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 10:12:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] SEM Parts
Message-ID: <e9d25fed-2f20-4ef1-4785-5293fc16c643@gmail.com>

If anyone has a non-working Oberheim SEM (original version) they're 
thinking of parting out, I would like to buy a working VCO pot -- will 
pay $100.
Contact me off list.
Thanks.
~G



From frey at radioles.com  Tue Mar 10 05:31:28 2020
From: frey at radioles.com (Joe Frey)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 00:31:28 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] CZ-1000 update and memory mod help
Message-ID: <33ff38fe-2471-fc98-d03f-f589de610b18@radioles.com>

Hello all, To those that answered my original post asking for guidance I 
found the problem. The output relay had gone bad and needed to be replaced.

So, after getting the synth to sound good again I decided to make an 
improvement and add ram power management so my custom patches wouldn't 
disappear when I put the synth in it's case for half a year. It turns 
out there's a chap that made a mod that I found out about that people 
say works. I contacted him and though he no longer provides the kit he 
did supply the info to make that mod.

https://www.artefacts.nl/bitsandpieces.html

He also gave this advice, "_Before you start modifying the CZ you should 
check if you can change the standby voltage as described in the 
installation manual_. You should also check the RAM chips get a voltage 
between 4.8Volt and 5.2Volt when the unit is switched on. If you can not 
get these voltages within range the kit will not work."

Of course being me, I ignored the first line of the instruction and made 
and installed the mod. DOH! Now, everything is cozy and in place but I 
can't use the trimmer to get the standby voltage down to 3.2V. I can get 
it to 3.7V. I am wondering if I put a diode in the end of the VBR 
regulator circuit to use the diode drop and try and? get from 3.7 to 3.2V?

The schematic is found here.

https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Casio-CZ1000-schematics.pdf

And the VBR power supply is at page 4, grid 4F. And, the ribbon cable 
pin I am measuring voltage at is pin 9.

Any advice is appreciated. JoeF.



From shedsynth at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 10:40:35 2020
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:40:35 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <BC497BD1-EEFC-4421-AB3E-F669ACA746C2@blauwurf.info>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A30C409C35734CF2BF2A418FE1599846@david78c70950b>
 <00c501d5f62b$f50304a0$df090de0$@gmail.com>
 <BC497BD1-EEFC-4421-AB3E-F669ACA746C2@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <017301d5f6bf$f37b2ce0$da7186a0$@gmail.com>

Hi Michael,
I'm sorry about the inconvenience.

That link worked for me on Windows 10 + Chrome browser, but warns me that the site is "not secure".
I can also get there with IE and Edge.

The design (http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/ultrasimplevcf_132.png if that might work) is labelled "Ultra Simple VCF" by Hendrik Gottling.
I've tried googling for other links, but can't find any working link other than this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOz11CAlHPA

Perhaps somebody could find a better link?

I feel that it would not be right to include Mr Gottling's schematic in my own email.
Is there an etiquette for posting other people's work?

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Zacherl <sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info> 
Sent: 10 March 2020 08:30
To: ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths



> On 09.03.2020, at 17:01, ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The first filter I built was this:
> http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-45231.html

Hi, this one is dead. Any fix? I?m not sure what you are referring to. 
Thanks - Michael.




From werner.fluegel at b-tu.de  Tue Mar 10 11:47:11 2020
From: werner.fluegel at b-tu.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Werner_Fl=c3=bcgel?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 11:47:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <017301d5f6bf$f37b2ce0$da7186a0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A30C409C35734CF2BF2A418FE1599846@david78c70950b>
 <00c501d5f62b$f50304a0$df090de0$@gmail.com>
 <BC497BD1-EEFC-4421-AB3E-F669ACA746C2@blauwurf.info>
 <017301d5f6bf$f37b2ce0$da7186a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <73b89be1-917c-dc42-4c02-042e14bbe4d1@b-tu.de>

Am 10.03.2020 um 10:40 schrieb ShedSynth:
> Hi Michael,
> I'm sorry about the inconvenience.
> 
> That link worked for me on Windows 10 + Chrome browser, but warns me that the site is "not secure".
> I can also get there with IE and Edge.

The link (http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-45231.html) works and is 
ok, the warning comes because of http ans not https. I.m.o. a stupid 
warning, as "normal people" without technical knowledge about networking 
don't know the difference and no real danger exists.

-- 
mfG.

W.Fl?gel

Wir sind IT. Das ist kein Beruf, das ist eine Diagnose.
<7123838.uCcSxbalbl at rotfl.franken.de>



From werner.fluegel at b-tu.de  Tue Mar 10 12:08:18 2020
From: werner.fluegel at b-tu.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Werner_Fl=c3=bcgel?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:08:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <73b89be1-917c-dc42-4c02-042e14bbe4d1@b-tu.de>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A30C409C35734CF2BF2A418FE1599846@david78c70950b>
 <00c501d5f62b$f50304a0$df090de0$@gmail.com>
 <BC497BD1-EEFC-4421-AB3E-F669ACA746C2@blauwurf.info>
 <017301d5f6bf$f37b2ce0$da7186a0$@gmail.com>
 <73b89be1-917c-dc42-4c02-042e14bbe4d1@b-tu.de>
Message-ID: <253ce65e-2f40-9549-b377-d42b50067086@b-tu.de>

Am 10.03.2020 um 11:47 schrieb Fl?gel, Werner:
> Am 10.03.2020 um 10:40 schrieb ShedSynth:
>> Hi Michael,
>> I'm sorry about the inconvenience.
>>
>> That link worked for me on Windows 10 + Chrome browser, but warns me that the site is "not secure".
>> I can also get there with IE and Edge.
> 
> The link (http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-45231.html) works and is
> ok, the warning comes because of http ans not https. I.m.o. a stupid
> warning, as "normal people" without technical knowledge about networking
> don't know the difference and no real danger exists.

Additional Info: HTTPS works too, but complains about an self certified 
and expired certificate. Again: not real a danger. That means only, that 
the owner of the website has to renew the certificate and that no other 
authority was involved in creating the cert.


-- 
mfG.

W.Fl?gel
BTU Cottbus-Senftenberg
Nutzerdienste der IT-Services Senftenberg
Tel. 03573 / 85382

Wir sind IT. Das ist kein Beruf, das ist eine Diagnose.
<7123838.uCcSxbalbl at rotfl.franken.de>



From colindorward at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 03:01:03 2020
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 22:01:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is. I
mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).
I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the
pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely
different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.
Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it
even doing?
Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of analog
frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any thoughts/experience
they'd like to share.
Cheers,
Colin

-- 
https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
-
<https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
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From colindorward at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 03:51:12 2020
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 22:51:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <3f9128d162784bc58911db3a13f88507@jeppesen.com>
References: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <3f9128d162784bc58911db3a13f88507@jeppesen.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy57xvo2KL_9yi6ybvJFNKx_Zydj1j0=2UJoGUqXwOBcfw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Matthias.
Looks like the PAL filter used the 3320 to do an APF (and switchable to
LPF). Well, that's exactly what I did. It sounds lovely as a phaser, just
like what you'd expect. It's so easy to build and so much better than all
my digital phasers. Not sure why, but I really find the digitals fail in
this department.
I haven't found a lot of implementations of this APF topology in pitch
shifting applications.
This UAD article opens a new can of worms by introducing the APF type used
in reverbs, which I think is different from the analog/filtering type of
APF, in that it adds a delay component. Anyone, please correct me if I'm
wrong. This is actually another thread topic I've been wanting to start for
ages.*Phaser type APF vs reverb type APF.*
Also, can you explain like I'm stupid the difference between pitch and
frequency shifting? It sounds like a linear vs exponential thing, but must
be more to it than that...
C

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 1:36 AM Matthias Herrmann <
Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com> wrote:

> Thomas Henry did this with his 1982 ?PAL Filter?. And by mixing the
> original signal into the filtered signal you can mimik both pitch-shift and
> frequency shift effect. I am currently building his filter and wil soon be
> able to check this with my own ears.
>
> The effect is shortly discussed here:
> https://www.uaudio.de/blog/allpass-filters/
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Matthias
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] *On Behalf Of *
> ColinMuirDorward
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 3:01 AM
> *To:* *SYNTH DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Subject:* [sdiy] frequency shifter
>
>
>
> Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is.
> I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).
>
> I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the
> pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely
> different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.
>
> Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it
> even doing?
>
> Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of
> analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any
> thoughts/experience they'd like to share.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Colin
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


-- 
https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
-
<https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
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From Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com  Wed Mar 11 06:33:13 2020
From: Matthias.Herrmann at jeppesen.com (Matthias Herrmann)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 05:33:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f9128d162784bc58911db3a13f88507@jeppesen.com>

Thomas Henry did this with his 1982 ?PAL Filter?. And by mixing the original signal into the filtered signal you can mimik both pitch-shift and frequency shift effect. I am currently building his filter and wil soon be able to check this with my own ears.

The effect is shortly discussed here:
https://www.uaudio.de/blog/allpass-filters/

Cheers,
Matthias



From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of ColinMuirDorward
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 3:01 AM
To: *SYNTH DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter

Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is. I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).
I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.
Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it even doing?
Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any thoughts/experience they'd like to share.
Cheers,
Colin


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From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Wed Mar 11 08:28:18 2020
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 00:28:18 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A0C6C911DB5144EB9A26DDF21E023DDF@david78c70950b>

I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.  This is frequency
shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric product-to-sum formulae using
electronic circuits:

 

sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u - v) - cos (u + v)]

 

cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u - v) + cos (u + v)]

 

So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature signals (say, u
is the audio you want to shift and v is the on-board quadrature oscillator),
then if you multiply the signals together (using a four-quadrant multiplier)
and also multiply their quadrature signals together (using a second
four-quadrant multiplier) then you can sum the multiplier outputs together,
and you will get the following (by adding the two equations together):

 

cos (u - v)

 

This represents the audio signal u which has been frequency-shifted downward
by the frequency of the oscillator signal v.  Of course, the audio signal
probably has many frequencies u occurring simultaneously, and they will all
be shifted down by v.  That's what makes frequency shifting sound so alien
and weird.

 

By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output signals (based
on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover the up-shifted audio:

 

cos (u + v) 

 

With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo effect.

 

The entire circuit consists of a 90-degree phase displacement network to
generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed mine with 12 stages
from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I found on the internet called
QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator to generate both sine and cosine waves at
frequency v (mine is TZFM and consists of two Rubicon cores with sine
shapers, with one syncing the other in such a way that the two are always 90
degrees out of phase), two four-quadrant multipliers (I built a dual unit
from a single 2164 chip - two linearized VCAs), and a couple of output
amplifier stages for doing the summing.  The key to success is to AC couple
the signals into the multipliers to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming
signal, which is the single largest source of error in the circuit.  If that
is done properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate summing
resistors are chosen).

 

The circuit works great and sounds super freaky.  I'm going to be building
another one for one of our members here shortly.

 

 

  _____  

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of
ColinMuirDorward
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
To: *SYNTH DIY
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter

 

Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is. I
mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).

I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the
pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely
different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.

Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it
even doing? 

Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of analog
frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any thoughts/experience
they'd like to share.

Cheers,

Colin


-- 

https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/

- <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/> 


https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/

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From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Wed Mar 11 11:05:45 2020
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 10:05:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <A0C6C911DB5144EB9A26DDF21E023DDF@david78c70950b>
References: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A0C6C911DB5144EB9A26DDF21E023DDF@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>

My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's description! But I 
remember there's a good basis in an old Electronotes - I didn't follow 
it exactly by any stretch but it really helped me design my own, the 
theory I took being:
1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the 
modulating input coming one from sine / one from cosine
4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up & down 
shifts.

What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping the 
ideas at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control + output 
mixing/panning. Really great audio processor, even at LFO rates where it 
becomes a wonderful phaser type machine.

On 11/03/2020 07:28, David G Dixon wrote:
>
> I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.? This is 
> frequency shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric product-to-sum 
> formulae using electronic circuits:
>
> sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) ? cos (u + v)]
>
> cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) + cos (u + v)]
>
> So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature signals 
> (say, u is the audio you want to shift and v is the on-board 
> quadrature oscillator), then if you multiply the signals together 
> (using a four-quadrant multiplier) and also multiply their quadrature 
> signals together (using a second four-quadrant multiplier) then you 
> can sum the multiplier outputs together, and you will get the 
> following (by adding the two equations together):
>
> cos (u ? v)
>
> This represents the audio signal u which has been frequency-shifted 
> downward by the frequency of the oscillator signal v.? Of course, the 
> audio signal probably has many frequencies u occurring simultaneously, 
> and they will all be shifted down by v. That?s what makes frequency 
> shifting sound so alien and weird.
>
> By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output signals 
> (based on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover the 
> up-shifted audio:
>
> cos (u + v)
>
> With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo effect.
>
> The entire circuit consists of?a 90-degree phase displacement network 
> to generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed mine with 12 
> stages from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I found on the 
> internet called QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator to generate both 
> sine and cosine waves at frequency v (mine is TZFM and consists of two 
> Rubicon cores with sine shapers, with one syncing the other in such a 
> way that the two are always 90 degrees out of phase), two 
> four-quadrant multipliers (I built a dual unit from a single 2164 chip 
> ? two linearized VCAs), and a couple of output amplifier stages for 
> doing the summing. ?The key to success is to AC couple the signals 
> into the multipliers to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming signal, 
> which is the single largest source of error in the circuit. If that is 
> done properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate 
> summing resistors are chosen).
>
> The circuit?works great and sounds super freaky.? I?m going to be 
> building another one for one of our members here shortly.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] *On Behalf 
> Of *ColinMuirDorward
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
> *To:* *SYNTH DIY
> *Subject:* [sdiy] frequency shifter
>
> Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter 
> is. I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).
>
> I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of 
> the pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an 
> entirely different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH 
> have done.
>
> Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what 
> is it even doing?
>
> Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of 
> analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any 
> thoughts/experience they'd like to share.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Colin
>
>
> -- 
>
> https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
>
> -
> <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
>
> https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
BugBrand LTD
UK company No. 07199808
VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
BRISTOL BS1 3SB
United Kingdom
www.bugbrand.co.uk



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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From quincas at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 14:39:24 2020
From: quincas at gmail.com (Quincas Moreira)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 07:39:24 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>

This is a celebrated one, by JHaible. I have the pcb, waiting for the day when i?ll have time to source the parts...

http://jhaible.com/legacy/frequency_shifter_fs1a/fs1a


Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Mar 2020, at 4:11, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's description! But I remember there's a good basis in an old Electronotes - I didn't follow it exactly by any stretch but it really helped me design my own, the theory I took being:
> 1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
> 2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
> 3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the modulating input coming one from sine / one from cosine
> 4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up & down shifts.
> 
> What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping the ideas at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control + output mixing/panning. Really great audio processor, even at LFO rates where it becomes a wonderful phaser type machine.
> 
> On 11/03/2020 07:28, David G Dixon wrote:
>> I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.  This is frequency shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric product-to-sum formulae using electronic circuits:
>>  
>> sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) ? cos (u + v)]
>>  
>> cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) + cos (u + v)]
>>  
>> So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature signals (say, u is the audio you want to shift and v is the on-board quadrature oscillator), then if you multiply the signals together (using a four-quadrant multiplier) and also multiply their quadrature signals together (using a second four-quadrant multiplier) then you can sum the multiplier outputs together, and you will get the following (by adding the two equations together):
>>  
>> cos (u ? v)
>>  
>> This represents the audio signal u which has been frequency-shifted downward by the frequency of the oscillator signal v.  Of course, the audio signal probably has many frequencies u occurring simultaneously, and they will all be shifted down by v.  That?s what makes frequency shifting sound so alien and weird.
>>  
>> By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output signals (based on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover the up-shifted audio:
>>  
>> cos (u + v)
>>  
>> With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo effect.
>>  
>> The entire circuit consists of a 90-degree phase displacement network to generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed mine with 12 stages from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I found on the internet called QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator to generate both sine and cosine waves at frequency v (mine is TZFM and consists of two Rubicon cores with sine shapers, with one syncing the other in such a way that the two are always 90 degrees out of phase), two four-quadrant multipliers (I built a dual unit from a single 2164 chip ? two linearized VCAs), and a couple of output amplifier stages for doing the summing.  The key to success is to AC couple the signals into the multipliers to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming signal, which is the single largest source of error in the circuit.  If that is done properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate summing resistors are chosen).
>>  
>> The circuit works great and sounds super freaky.  I?m going to be building another one for one of our members here shortly.
>>  
>>  
>> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of ColinMuirDorward
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
>> To: *SYNTH DIY
>> Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
>>  
>> Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is. I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).
>> I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.
>> Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it even doing? 
>> Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any thoughts/experience they'd like to share.
>> Cheers,
>> Colin
>> 
>> --
>> https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
>> -
>> https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> -- 
> BugBrand LTD
> UK company No. 07199808
> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
> 1 Ninetree Hill
> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
> United Kingdom
> www.bugbrand.co.uk
> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avg.com
> _______________________________________________
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From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Wed Mar 11 15:03:24 2020
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 15:03:24 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>

@all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:

Hi Lena!

Here are my suggestions:

Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner 
are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or the 
powersupply) and add your diy modules then.

Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk 
should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I 
soldered from a kit.

Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard / veroboard 
/ breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for 
schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may 
help you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts, developing the layout on 
the stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.

After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start 
modifying other circuits.


Florian



Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. 
> No smd soldering yet.
>


> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de 
> <mailto:fanwander at mnet-online.de>> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz 2020, 11:49:
>
>     Hi
>
>     what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or
>     soldering?
>
>     It is something different whether you are musician "only" or
>     whether you
>     are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>
>     Florian
>
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From colindorward at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 16:22:18 2020
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 11:22:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm still working on these replies, folks, thanks for the discussion!
OK, TBH, I'm pretty lost. It's probably beyond me without having the math.
Is it anything like barber-poling a series of APF filters?


On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 9:43 AM Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a celebrated one, by JHaible. I have the pcb, waiting for the day
> when i?ll have time to source the parts...
>
> http://jhaible.com/legacy/frequency_shifter_fs1a/fs1a
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 11 Mar 2020, at 4:11, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's description! But I
> remember there's a good basis in an old Electronotes - I didn't follow it
> exactly by any stretch but it really helped me design my own, the theory I
> took being:
> 1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
> 2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
> 3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the
> modulating input coming one from sine / one from cosine
> 4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up & down
> shifts.
>
> What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping the ideas
> at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control + output mixing/panning.
> Really great audio processor, even at LFO rates where it becomes a
> wonderful phaser type machine.
> On 11/03/2020 07:28, David G Dixon wrote:
>
> I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.  This is frequency
> shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric product-to-sum formulae using
> electronic circuits:
>
>
>
> sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) ? cos (u + v)]
>
>
>
> cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) + cos (u + v)]
>
>
>
> So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature signals (say,
> u is the audio you want to shift and v is the on-board quadrature
> oscillator), then if you multiply the signals together (using a
> four-quadrant multiplier) and also multiply their quadrature signals
> together (using a second four-quadrant multiplier) then you can sum the
> multiplier outputs together, and you will get the following (by adding the
> two equations together):
>
>
>
> cos (u ? v)
>
>
>
> This represents the audio signal u which has been frequency-shifted
> downward by the frequency of the oscillator signal v.  Of course, the audio
> signal probably has many frequencies u occurring simultaneously, and they
> will all be shifted down by v.  That?s what makes frequency shifting sound
> so alien and weird.
>
>
>
> By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output signals
> (based on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover the up-shifted
> audio:
>
>
>
> cos (u + v)
>
>
>
> With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo effect.
>
>
>
> The entire circuit consists of a 90-degree phase displacement network to
> generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed mine with 12 stages
> from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I found on the internet called
> QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator to generate both sine and cosine waves at
> frequency v (mine is TZFM and consists of two Rubicon cores with sine
> shapers, with one syncing the other in such a way that the two are always
> 90 degrees out of phase), two four-quadrant multipliers (I built a dual
> unit from a single 2164 chip ? two linearized VCAs), and a couple of output
> amplifier stages for doing the summing.  The key to success is to AC couple
> the signals into the multipliers to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming
> signal, which is the single largest source of error in the circuit.  If
> that is done properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate
> summing resistors are chosen).
>
>
>
> The circuit works great and sounds super freaky.  I?m going to be building
> another one for one of our members here shortly.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
> <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>] *On Behalf Of *ColinMuirDorward
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
> *To:* *SYNTH DIY
> *Subject:* [sdiy] frequency shifter
>
>
>
> Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is.
> I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).
>
> I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the
> pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely
> different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.
>
> Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it
> even doing?
>
> Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of
> analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any
> thoughts/experience they'd like to share.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Colin
>
>
> --
>
> https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
>
> -
> <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
>
> https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing listSynth-diy at synth-diy.orghttp://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> --
> BugBrand LTD
> UK company No. 07199808
> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
> 1 Ninetree Hill
> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
> United Kingdomwww.bugbrand.co.uk
>
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
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> <#m_3126639033867629156_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> _______________________________________________
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> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


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From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Wed Mar 11 16:59:39 2020
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:59:39 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CZ-1000 update and memory mod help
In-Reply-To: <33ff38fe-2471-fc98-d03f-f589de610b18@radioles.com>
References: <33ff38fe-2471-fc98-d03f-f589de610b18@radioles.com>
Message-ID: <d409c297-9fac-1792-912e-16c145b7e3e0@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

Wow, that (original) circuit is insane. Hopefully someone on this list 
can understand all of it because I sure can't.

On 3/9/2020 9:31 PM, Joe Frey wrote:
> Hello all, To those that answered my original post asking for guidance I 
> found the problem. The output relay had gone bad and needed to be replaced.
> 
> So, after getting the synth to sound good again I decided to make an 
> improvement and add ram power management so my custom patches wouldn't 
> disappear when I put the synth in it's case for half a year. It turns 
> out there's a chap that made a mod that I found out about that people 
> say works. I contacted him and though he no longer provides the kit he 
> did supply the info to make that mod.
> 
> https://www.artefacts.nl/bitsandpieces.html
> 
> He also gave this advice, "_Before you start modifying the CZ you should 
> check if you can change the standby voltage as described in the 
> installation manual_. You should also check the RAM chips get a voltage 
> between 4.8Volt and 5.2Volt when the unit is switched on. If you can not 
> get these voltages within range the kit will not work."
> 
> Of course being me, I ignored the first line of the instruction and made 
> and installed the mod. DOH! Now, everything is cozy and in place but I 
> can't use the trimmer to get the standby voltage down to 3.2V. I can get 
> it to 3.7V. I am wondering if I put a diode in the end of the VBR 
> regulator circuit to use the diode drop and try and? get from 3.7 to 3.2V?
> 
> The schematic is found here.
> 
> https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Casio-CZ1000-schematics.pdf 
> 
> 
> And the VBR power supply is at page 4, grid 4F. And, the ribbon cable 
> pin I am measuring voltage at is pin 9.
> 
> Any advice is appreciated. JoeF.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Wed Mar 11 17:23:24 2020
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 16:23:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] CZ-1000 update and memory mod help
Message-ID: <VI1PR03MB51183423DBD4A38310B982AB94FC0@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Yes, this curcuit is really crazy... The circuit looks more like a Japanese letter than a power supply circuit...

I measured my CZ-101 voltages and it doesn't fulfill the requirements so that Maartens circuit could work ?
My RAM voltage is always 4,24V - even if the power is switched off. When switched on it should rise up to 4,75 to 5,25V but not in my unit.
And the VBR voltage cannot be brought down to 3.2V as necessary...

So for me this circuit will not work. The already ordered DS1210S chip will be stored forever I bet...

I think I will design a cartridge for the CZ-101 that uses a ferroram, so that no battery is used.
I already have the chip at home for years but never really started this project...

Ciao
Peter

http://www.ullrich.at.tt (my webpage)
https://www.instagram.com/synpro  (my Instagram account)
http://www.rc100-usb.at.tt (Roland Sampler Tool)
http://synpro.heimat.eu/datadial.htm (DataDial Synth Addon / can also be used for the Casio CZ synths!)



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> Im Auftrag von MTG
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. M?rz 2020 17:00
An: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] CZ-1000 update and memory mod help

Wow, that (original) circuit is insane. Hopefully someone on this list can understand all of it because I sure can't.

On 3/9/2020 9:31 PM, Joe Frey wrote:
> Hello all, To those that answered my original post asking for guidance
> I found the problem. The output relay had gone bad and needed to be replaced.
>
> So, after getting the synth to sound good again I decided to make an
> improvement and add ram power management so my custom patches wouldn't
> disappear when I put the synth in it's case for half a year. It turns
> out there's a chap that made a mod that I found out about that people
> say works. I contacted him and though he no longer provides the kit he
> did supply the info to make that mod.
>
> https://www.artefacts.nl/bitsandpieces.html
>
> He also gave this advice, "_Before you start modifying the CZ you
> should check if you can change the standby voltage as described in the
> installation manual_. You should also check the RAM chips get a
> voltage between 4.8Volt and 5.2Volt when the unit is switched on. If
> you can not get these voltages within range the kit will not work."
>
> Of course being me, I ignored the first line of the instruction and
> made and installed the mod. DOH! Now, everything is cozy and in place
> but I can't use the trimmer to get the standby voltage down to 3.2V. I
> can get it to 3.7V. I am wondering if I put a diode in the end of the
> VBR regulator circuit to use the diode drop and try and  get from 3.7 to 3.2V?
>
> The schematic is found here.
>
> https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Casio-CZ1000-schema
> tics.pdf
>
>
> And the VBR power supply is at page 4, grid 4F. And, the ribbon cable
> pin I am measuring voltage at is pin 9.
>
> Any advice is appreciated. JoeF.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his employees or an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately.




From maohelin at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 19:47:59 2020
From: maohelin at gmail.com (Mikko Helin)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 20:47:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with some
selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then
start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to
check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a compatible
audio interface (ES-3/6, https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de>
wrote:

> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>
> Hi Lena!
>
> Here are my suggestions:
>
> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner are
> not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or the
> powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>
> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk should
> be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
> soldered from a kit.
>
> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard / veroboard /
> breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for schematics
> were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help you to
> design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
> modifying other circuits.
>
>
> Florian
>
>
>
> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>
> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. No
> smd soldering yet.
>
>
>
> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz 2020,
> 11:49:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?
>>
>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether you
>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>
>> Florian
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From colindorward at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 20:05:44 2020
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 15:05:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I see now why I've never heard of this dome filter aka phase shift
network, because it's patented/protected material.
Tom, do you have any audio clips to share?

Re the maths, what's the quickest route to get there? I just wrapped up ten
years of art school, maybe it's time I got a real education now.

C

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:44 PM David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:

> I?d be lost without the maths.  I always derive the transfer functions of
> any filters I design, for example, and I have found that to be invaluable.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] *On Behalf Of *Tom
> Bugs
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 12:49 PM
> *To:* *SYNTH DIY
> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] frequency shifter
>
>
>
> Don't feel you *have* to get tangled up in maths - I could do maths up
> through my technical university course, but frankly it never conveyed
> spirit to me & I rarely go anywhere deep with it in any of my designing.
> I was also going to suggest looking up the CGS Dome Filter (the phase
> shift network mentioned) but don't think schematics were presented - it
> does, however, state the Electronotes article I referred to - #83
> https://sdiy.info/wiki/CGS_dome_filter
>
> On 11/03/2020 15:22, ColinMuirDorward wrote:
>
> I'm still working on these replies, folks, thanks for the discussion!
>
> OK, TBH, I'm pretty lost. It's probably beyond me without having the math.
> Is it anything like barber-poling a series of APF filters?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 9:43 AM Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is a celebrated one, by JHaible. I have the pcb, waiting for the day
> when i?ll have time to source the parts...
>
>
>
> http://jhaible.com/legacy/frequency_shifter_fs1a/fs1a
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On 11 Mar 2020, at 4:11, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's description! But I
> remember there's a good basis in an old Electronotes - I didn't follow it
> exactly by any stretch but it really helped me design my own, the theory I
> took being:
> 1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
> 2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
> 3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the
> modulating input coming one from sine / one from cosine
> 4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up & down
> shifts.
>
> What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping the ideas
> at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control + output mixing/panning.
> Really great audio processor, even at LFO rates where it becomes a
> wonderful phaser type machine.
>
> On 11/03/2020 07:28, David G Dixon wrote:
>
> I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.  This is frequency
> shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric product-to-sum formulae using
> electronic circuits:
>
>
>
> sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) ? cos (u + v)]
>
>
>
> cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) + cos (u + v)]
>
>
>
> So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature signals (say,
> u is the audio you want to shift and v is the on-board quadrature
> oscillator), then if you multiply the signals together (using a
> four-quadrant multiplier) and also multiply their quadrature signals
> together (using a second four-quadrant multiplier) then you can sum the
> multiplier outputs together, and you will get the following (by adding the
> two equations together):
>
>
>
> cos (u ? v)
>
>
>
> This represents the audio signal u which has been frequency-shifted
> downward by the frequency of the oscillator signal v.  Of course, the audio
> signal probably has many frequencies u occurring simultaneously, and they
> will all be shifted down by v.  That?s what makes frequency shifting sound
> so alien and weird.
>
>
>
> By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output signals
> (based on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover the up-shifted
> audio:
>
>
>
> cos (u + v)
>
>
>
> With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo effect.
>
>
>
> The entire circuit consists of a 90-degree phase displacement network to
> generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed mine with 12 stages
> from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I found on the internet called
> QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator to generate both sine and cosine waves at
> frequency v (mine is TZFM and consists of two Rubicon cores with sine
> shapers, with one syncing the other in such a way that the two are always
> 90 degrees out of phase), two four-quadrant multipliers (I built a dual
> unit from a single 2164 chip ? two linearized VCAs), and a couple of output
> amplifier stages for doing the summing.  The key to success is to AC couple
> the signals into the multipliers to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming
> signal, which is the single largest source of error in the circuit.  If
> that is done properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate
> summing resistors are chosen).
>
>
>
> The circuit works great and sounds super freaky.  I?m going to be building
> another one for one of our members here shortly.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
> <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>] *On Behalf Of *ColinMuirDorward
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
> *To:* *SYNTH DIY
> *Subject:* [sdiy] frequency shifter
>
>
>
> Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is.
> I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).
>
> I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the
> pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely
> different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.
>
> Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it
> even doing?
>
> Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of
> analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any
> thoughts/experience they'd like to share.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Colin
>
>
> --
>
> https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
>
> -
> <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
>
> https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Synth-diy mailing list
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> --
>
> BugBrand LTD
>
> UK company No. 07199808
>
> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
>
> 1 Ninetree Hill
>
> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
>
> United Kingdom
>
> www.bugbrand.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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>
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> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
> --
>
> https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
>
> -
> <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
>
> https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
>
> --
>
> BugBrand LTD
>
> UK company No. 07199808
>
> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
>
> 1 Ninetree Hill
>
> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
>
> United Kingdom
>
> www.bugbrand.co.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


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-
<https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
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From colindorward at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 20:10:54 2020
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 15:10:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
 <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy5nzcwp7dHikraSW3LALhZ-f+ZKmOY7bQmKE+32Ots3VQ@mail.gmail.com>

oh, I didnt notice JH shared his schemos, and some sound clips there, too.

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 3:05 PM ColinMuirDorward <colindorward at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ok, I see now why I've never heard of this dome filter aka phase shift
> network, because it's patented/protected material.
> Tom, do you have any audio clips to share?
>
> Re the maths, what's the quickest route to get there? I just wrapped up
> ten years of art school, maybe it's time I got a real education now.
>
> C
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:44 PM David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:
>
>> I?d be lost without the maths.  I always derive the transfer functions of
>> any filters I design, for example, and I have found that to be invaluable.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] *On Behalf Of
>> *Tom Bugs
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 12:49 PM
>> *To:* *SYNTH DIY
>> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] frequency shifter
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't feel you *have* to get tangled up in maths - I could do maths up
>> through my technical university course, but frankly it never conveyed
>> spirit to me & I rarely go anywhere deep with it in any of my designing.
>> I was also going to suggest looking up the CGS Dome Filter (the phase
>> shift network mentioned) but don't think schematics were presented - it
>> does, however, state the Electronotes article I referred to - #83
>> https://sdiy.info/wiki/CGS_dome_filter
>>
>> On 11/03/2020 15:22, ColinMuirDorward wrote:
>>
>> I'm still working on these replies, folks, thanks for the discussion!
>>
>> OK, TBH, I'm pretty lost. It's probably beyond me without having the
>> math. Is it anything like barber-poling a series of APF filters?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 9:43 AM Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> This is a celebrated one, by JHaible. I have the pcb, waiting for the day
>> when i?ll have time to source the parts...
>>
>>
>>
>> http://jhaible.com/legacy/frequency_shifter_fs1a/fs1a
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 Mar 2020, at 4:11, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's description! But I
>> remember there's a good basis in an old Electronotes - I didn't follow it
>> exactly by any stretch but it really helped me design my own, the theory I
>> took being:
>> 1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
>> 2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
>> 3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the
>> modulating input coming one from sine / one from cosine
>> 4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up & down
>> shifts.
>>
>> What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping the
>> ideas at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control + output
>> mixing/panning. Really great audio processor, even at LFO rates where it
>> becomes a wonderful phaser type machine.
>>
>> On 11/03/2020 07:28, David G Dixon wrote:
>>
>> I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.  This is frequency
>> shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric product-to-sum formulae using
>> electronic circuits:
>>
>>
>>
>> sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) ? cos (u + v)]
>>
>>
>>
>> cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) + cos (u + v)]
>>
>>
>>
>> So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature signals (say,
>> u is the audio you want to shift and v is the on-board quadrature
>> oscillator), then if you multiply the signals together (using a
>> four-quadrant multiplier) and also multiply their quadrature signals
>> together (using a second four-quadrant multiplier) then you can sum the
>> multiplier outputs together, and you will get the following (by adding the
>> two equations together):
>>
>>
>>
>> cos (u ? v)
>>
>>
>>
>> This represents the audio signal u which has been frequency-shifted
>> downward by the frequency of the oscillator signal v.  Of course, the audio
>> signal probably has many frequencies u occurring simultaneously, and they
>> will all be shifted down by v.  That?s what makes frequency shifting sound
>> so alien and weird.
>>
>>
>>
>> By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output signals
>> (based on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover the up-shifted
>> audio:
>>
>>
>>
>> cos (u + v)
>>
>>
>>
>> With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo effect.
>>
>>
>>
>> The entire circuit consists of a 90-degree phase displacement network to
>> generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed mine with 12 stages
>> from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I found on the internet called
>> QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator to generate both sine and cosine waves at
>> frequency v (mine is TZFM and consists of two Rubicon cores with sine
>> shapers, with one syncing the other in such a way that the two are always
>> 90 degrees out of phase), two four-quadrant multipliers (I built a dual
>> unit from a single 2164 chip ? two linearized VCAs), and a couple of output
>> amplifier stages for doing the summing.  The key to success is to AC couple
>> the signals into the multipliers to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming
>> signal, which is the single largest source of error in the circuit.  If
>> that is done properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate
>> summing resistors are chosen).
>>
>>
>>
>> The circuit works great and sounds super freaky.  I?m going to be
>> building another one for one of our members here shortly.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
>> <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>] *On Behalf Of *ColinMuirDorward
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
>> *To:* *SYNTH DIY
>> *Subject:* [sdiy] frequency shifter
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is.
>> I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).
>>
>> I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the
>> pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely
>> different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.
>>
>> Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is
>> it even doing?
>>
>> Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of
>> analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any
>> thoughts/experience they'd like to share.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
>>
>> -
>> <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> --
>>
>> BugBrand LTD
>>
>> UK company No. 07199808
>>
>> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
>>
>> 1 Ninetree Hill
>>
>> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
>>
>> United Kingdom
>>
>> www.bugbrand.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
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>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
>>
>> -
>> <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
>>
>> --
>>
>> BugBrand LTD
>>
>> UK company No. 07199808
>>
>> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
>>
>> 1 Ninetree Hill
>>
>> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
>>
>> United Kingdom
>>
>> www.bugbrand.co.uk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
>
> --
> https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
> -
> <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
> https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
>


-- 
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From lenakolb2204 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 20:26:16 2020
From: lenakolb2204 at gmail.com (Lena Kolb)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 20:26:16 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>

Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they are
open source

Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:

> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with some
> selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then
> start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to
> check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a compatible
> audio interface (ES-3/6, https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de>
> wrote:
>
>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>
>> Hi Lena!
>>
>> Here are my suggestions:
>>
>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner
>> are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or the
>> powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>
>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk should
>> be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
>> soldered from a kit.
>>
>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard / veroboard
>> / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for schematics
>> were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help you to
>> design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>> modifying other circuits.
>>
>>
>> Florian
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>
>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. No
>> smd soldering yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz
>> 2020, 11:49:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?
>>>
>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether you
>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>
>>> Florian
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
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From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Wed Mar 11 20:49:22 2020
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 19:49:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>

Don't feel you *have* to get tangled up in maths - I could do maths up 
through my technical university course, but frankly it never conveyed 
spirit to me & I rarely go anywhere deep with it in any of my designing.
I was also going to suggest looking up the CGS Dome Filter (the phase 
shift network mentioned) but don't think schematics were presented - it 
does, however, state the Electronotes article I referred to - #83
https://sdiy.info/wiki/CGS_dome_filter

On 11/03/2020 15:22, ColinMuirDorward wrote:
> I'm still working on these replies, folks, thanks for the discussion!
> OK, TBH, I'm pretty lost. It's probably beyond me without having the 
> math. Is it anything like barber-poling a series of APF filters?
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 9:43 AM Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com 
> <mailto:quincas at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     This is a celebrated one, by JHaible. I have the pcb, waiting for
>     the day when i?ll have time to source the parts...
>
>     http://jhaible.com/legacy/frequency_shifter_fs1a/fs1a
>
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>>     On 11 Mar 2020, at 4:11, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk
>>     <mailto:admin at bugbrand.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     ?
>>
>>     My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's
>>     description! But I remember there's a good basis in an old
>>     Electronotes - I didn't follow it exactly by any stretch but it
>>     really helped me design my own, the theory I took being:
>>     1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
>>     2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
>>     3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the
>>     modulating input coming one from sine / one from cosine
>>     4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up &
>>     down shifts.
>>
>>     What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping
>>     the ideas at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control +
>>     output mixing/panning. Really great audio processor, even at LFO
>>     rates where it becomes a wonderful phaser type machine.
>>
>>     On 11/03/2020 07:28, David G Dixon wrote:
>>>
>>>     I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.? This is
>>>     frequency shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric
>>>     product-to-sum formulae using electronic circuits:
>>>
>>>     sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) ? cos (u + v)]
>>>
>>>     cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) + cos (u + v)]
>>>
>>>     So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature
>>>     signals (say, u is the audio you want to shift and v is the
>>>     on-board quadrature oscillator), then if you multiply the
>>>     signals together (using a four-quadrant multiplier) and also
>>>     multiply their quadrature signals together (using a second
>>>     four-quadrant multiplier) then you can sum the multiplier
>>>     outputs together, and you will get the following (by adding the
>>>     two equations together):
>>>
>>>     cos (u ? v)
>>>
>>>     This represents the audio signal u which has been
>>>     frequency-shifted downward by the frequency of the oscillator
>>>     signal v.? Of course, the audio signal probably has many
>>>     frequencies u occurring simultaneously, and they will all be
>>>     shifted down by v. That?s what makes frequency shifting sound so
>>>     alien and weird.
>>>
>>>     By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output
>>>     signals (based on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover
>>>     the up-shifted audio:
>>>
>>>     cos (u + v)
>>>
>>>     With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo
>>>     effect.
>>>
>>>     The entire circuit consists of?a 90-degree phase displacement
>>>     network to generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed
>>>     mine with 12 stages from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I
>>>     found on the internet called QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator
>>>     to generate both sine and cosine waves at frequency v (mine is
>>>     TZFM and consists of two Rubicon cores with sine shapers, with
>>>     one syncing the other in such a way that the two are always 90
>>>     degrees out of phase), two four-quadrant multipliers (I built a
>>>     dual unit from a single 2164 chip ? two linearized VCAs), and a
>>>     couple of output amplifier stages for doing the summing.? The
>>>     key to success is to AC couple the signals into the multipliers
>>>     to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming signal, which is the
>>>     single largest source of error in the circuit. If that is done
>>>     properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate
>>>     summing resistors are chosen).
>>>
>>>     The circuit?works great and sounds super freaky.? I?m going to
>>>     be building another one for one of our members here shortly.
>>>
>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>     *From:*Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] *On
>>>     Behalf Of *ColinMuirDorward
>>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
>>>     *To:* *SYNTH DIY
>>>     *Subject:* [sdiy] frequency shifter
>>>
>>>     Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency
>>>     shifter is. I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).
>>>
>>>     I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some
>>>     of the pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing
>>>     this is an entirely different method than the frequency shifters
>>>     like Moog and JH have done.
>>>
>>>     Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and
>>>     what is it even doing?
>>>
>>>     Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the
>>>     topic of analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has
>>>     any thoughts/experience they'd like to share.
>>>
>>>     Cheers,
>>>
>>>     Colin
>>>
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>
>>>     https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
>>>
>>>     -
>>>     <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
>>>
>>>     https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     Synth-diy mailing list
>>>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org  <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>     -- 
>>     BugBrand LTD
>>     UK company No. 07199808
>>     VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
>>     1 Ninetree Hill
>>     BRISTOL BS1 3SB
>>     United Kingdom
>>     www.bugbrand.co.uk  <http://www.bugbrand.co.uk>
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>
>
> -- 
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> -
> <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
> https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/

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VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
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From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Wed Mar 11 21:40:33 2020
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 13:40:33 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>

I?d be lost without the maths.  I always derive the transfer functions of any filters I design, for example, and I have found that to be invaluable.

 

  _____  

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Bugs
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 12:49 PM
To: *SYNTH DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] frequency shifter

 

Don't feel you *have* to get tangled up in maths - I could do maths up through my technical university course, but frankly it never conveyed spirit to me & I rarely go anywhere deep with it in any of my designing.
I was also going to suggest looking up the CGS Dome Filter (the phase shift network mentioned) but don't think schematics were presented - it does, however, state the Electronotes article I referred to - #83
https://sdiy.info/wiki/CGS_dome_filter

On 11/03/2020 15:22, ColinMuirDorward wrote:

I'm still working on these replies, folks, thanks for the discussion! 

OK, TBH, I'm pretty lost. It's probably beyond me without having the math. Is it anything like barber-poling a series of APF filters?

 

 

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 9:43 AM Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com> wrote:

This is a celebrated one, by JHaible. I have the pcb, waiting for the day when i?ll have time to source the parts... 

 

http://jhaible.com/legacy/frequency_shifter_fs1a/fs1a

 

Sent from my iPhone





On 11 Mar 2020, at 4:11, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:

? 

My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's description! But I remember there's a good basis in an old Electronotes - I didn't follow it exactly by any stretch but it really helped me design my own, the theory I took being:
1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the modulating input coming one from sine / one from cosine
4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up & down shifts.

What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping the ideas at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control + output mixing/panning. Really great audio processor, even at LFO rates where it becomes a wonderful phaser type machine.

On 11/03/2020 07:28, David G Dixon wrote:

I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.  This is frequency shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric product-to-sum formulae using electronic circuits:

 

sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) ? cos (u + v)]

 

cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) + cos (u + v)]

 

So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature signals (say, u is the audio you want to shift and v is the on-board quadrature oscillator), then if you multiply the signals together (using a four-quadrant multiplier) and also multiply their quadrature signals together (using a second four-quadrant multiplier) then you can sum the multiplier outputs together, and you will get the following (by adding the two equations together):

 

cos (u ? v)

 

This represents the audio signal u which has been frequency-shifted downward by the frequency of the oscillator signal v.  Of course, the audio signal probably has many frequencies u occurring simultaneously, and they will all be shifted down by v.  That?s what makes frequency shifting sound so alien and weird.

 

By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output signals (based on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover the up-shifted audio:

 

cos (u + v) 

 

With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo effect.

 

The entire circuit consists of a 90-degree phase displacement network to generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed mine with 12 stages from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I found on the internet called QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator to generate both sine and cosine waves at frequency v (mine is TZFM and consists of two Rubicon cores with sine shapers, with one syncing the other in such a way that the two are always 90 degrees out of phase), two four-quadrant multipliers (I built a dual unit from a single 2164 chip ? two linearized VCAs), and a couple of output amplifier stages for doing the summing.  The key to success is to AC couple the signals into the multipliers to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming signal, which is the single largest source of error in the circuit.  If that is done properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate summing resistors are chosen).

 

The circuit works great and sounds super freaky.  I?m going to be building another one for one of our members here shortly.

 

 


  _____  


From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of ColinMuirDorward
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
To: *SYNTH DIY
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter

 

Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is. I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).

I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.

Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it even doing? 

Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any thoughts/experience they'd like to share.

Cheers,

Colin


-- 

https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/

- <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/> 


https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/






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- <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/> 


https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/

-- 
BugBrand LTD
UK company No. 07199808
VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
BRISTOL BS1 3SB
United Kingdom
www.bugbrand.co.uk
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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 21:49:57 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 15:49:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>

They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.

It would depend on your soldering experience.

Ptee

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they
> are open source
>
> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>
>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with some
>> selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then
>> start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to
>> check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a compatible
>> audio interface (ES-3/6, https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <
>> fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>
>>> Hi Lena!
>>>
>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>
>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner
>>> are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or the
>>> powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>
>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk
>>> should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
>>> soldered from a kit.
>>>
>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard / veroboard
>>> / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for schematics
>>> were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help you to
>>> design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>>> modifying other circuits.
>>>
>>>
>>> Florian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>
>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. No
>>> smd soldering yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz
>>> 2020, 11:49:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?
>>>>
>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether
>>>> you
>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>
>>>> Florian
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From lenakolb2204 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 21:52:35 2020
From: lenakolb2204 at gmail.com (Lena Kolb)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 21:52:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>

Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm
still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.

Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <
pete.hartman at gmail.com>:

> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>
> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>
> Ptee
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they
>> are open source
>>
>> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>>
>>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with some
>>> selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then
>>> start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to
>>> check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a compatible
>>> audio interface (ES-3/6, https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <
>>> fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Lena!
>>>>
>>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>>
>>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner
>>>> are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or
>>>> the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>>
>>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk
>>>> should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
>>>> soldered from a kit.
>>>>
>>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard /
>>>> veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for
>>>> schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help
>>>> you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>>>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>>>> modifying other circuits.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Florian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>>
>>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. No
>>>> smd soldering yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz
>>>> 2020, 11:49:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?
>>>>>
>>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether
>>>>> you
>>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Florian
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
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From jamoore84 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 22:03:25 2020
From: jamoore84 at gmail.com (Jimmy Moore)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 15:03:25 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>

AI synthesis modules are good ones to start with

https://aisynthesis.com/

Abe is a great guy

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm
> still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>
> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <
> pete.hartman at gmail.com>:
>
>> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>>
>> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>>
>> Ptee
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they
>>> are open source
>>>
>>> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>>>
>>>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with
>>>> some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and
>>>> then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful
>>>> also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a
>>>> compatible audio interface (ES-3/6,
>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <
>>>> fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Lena!
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>>>
>>>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner
>>>>> are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or
>>>>> the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>>>
>>>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk
>>>>> should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
>>>>> soldered from a kit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard /
>>>>> veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for
>>>>> schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help
>>>>> you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>>>>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>>>>> modifying other circuits.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Florian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>>>
>>>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times.
>>>>> No smd soldering yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz
>>>>> 2020, 11:49:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or
>>>>>> soldering?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From modifythis at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 22:08:07 2020
From: modifythis at gmail.com (Dharma Punx)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 14:08:07 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE2FEOtOxV1R-=QWWUKPt5EWCWkgvKo_+FNsppCNTHf7Ch2bbw@mail.gmail.com>

I am in the same situation as you Lena.  I started with a few PCB and Panel
Kits from LMNC, now i am in the process of building up my first voice
(ADSR,LFO,VCA,mixer etc) from other makers.  I am sticking to blank PCBs
rather than kits, and am currently trying to make my own stripboard mixer
from a pre-existing circuit schematic from AIsynthesis.  AIsynth, also
makes some really good modules in eurorack format.

I have been making lots of mistakes, but they have all taught me something.

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 1:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm
> still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>
> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <
> pete.hartman at gmail.com>:
>
>> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>>
>> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>>
>> Ptee
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they
>>> are open source
>>>
>>> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>>>
>>>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with
>>>> some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and
>>>> then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful
>>>> also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a
>>>> compatible audio interface (ES-3/6,
>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <
>>>> fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Lena!
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>>>
>>>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner
>>>>> are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or
>>>>> the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>>>
>>>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk
>>>>> should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
>>>>> soldered from a kit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard /
>>>>> veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for
>>>>> schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help
>>>>> you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>>>>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>>>>> modifying other circuits.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Florian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>>>
>>>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times.
>>>>> No smd soldering yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz
>>>>> 2020, 11:49:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or
>>>>>> soldering?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 22:27:51 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 16:27:51 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR9BXfN7W5Pyh-sYvUF10oWAXScPwiGC-ieGeV+_PifJiQ@mail.gmail.com>

I would second this recommendation.

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:04 PM Jimmy Moore <jamoore84 at gmail.com> wrote:

> AI synthesis modules are good ones to start with
>
> https://aisynthesis.com/
>
> Abe is a great guy
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm
>> still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>>
>> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <
>> pete.hartman at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>>>
>>> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>>>
>>> Ptee
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they
>>>> are open source
>>>>
>>>> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with
>>>>> some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and
>>>>> then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful
>>>>> also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a
>>>>> compatible audio interface (ES-3/6,
>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <
>>>>> fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Lena!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a
>>>>>> beginner are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>>>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or
>>>>>> the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk
>>>>>> should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>>>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
>>>>>> soldered from a kit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard /
>>>>>> veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for
>>>>>> schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help
>>>>>> you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>>>>>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>>>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>>>>>> modifying other circuits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times.
>>>>>> No smd soldering yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz
>>>>>> 2020, 11:49:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or
>>>>>>> soldering?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
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From dcurriden at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 11 22:49:29 2020
From: dcurriden at hotmail.com (Dan Curriden)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 21:49:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAE2FEOtOxV1R-=QWWUKPt5EWCWkgvKo_+FNsppCNTHf7Ch2bbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAE2FEOtOxV1R-=QWWUKPt5EWCWkgvKo_+FNsppCNTHf7Ch2bbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB3472C88FB0B2C5D60D1C965EBBFC0@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

I second Jimmy's recommendation of AI Synthesis. I've built several and all had clear instructions. Purchased PCBs and panels from Abe and got the components at Tayda. Most kits were around $45 for everything. Looping ADSR and Matrix Mixer are two I built that may fit your needs. I haven't built the mixer but it looks easy and useful.

Also, Zlob Modular makes great kits and Kevin is friendly and helpful. He labels the build difficulty so you can choose an appropriate kit.

Good luck!
Dan

________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Dharma Punx <modifythis at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 4:08 PM
To: Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths

I am in the same situation as you Lena.  I started with a few PCB and Panel Kits from LMNC, now i am in the process of building up my first voice (ADSR,LFO,VCA,mixer etc) from other makers.  I am sticking to blank PCBs rather than kits, and am currently trying to make my own stripboard mixer from a pre-existing circuit schematic from AIsynthesis.  AIsynth, also makes some really good modules in eurorack format.

I have been making lots of mistakes, but they have all taught me something.

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 1:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com<mailto:lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.

Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com<mailto:pete.hartman at gmail.com>>:
They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.

It would depend on your soldering experience.

Ptee

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com<mailto:lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they are open source

Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com<mailto:maohelin at gmail.com>> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a compatible audio interface (ES-3/6, https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de<mailto:fanwander at mnet-online.de>> wrote:

@all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:

Hi Lena!

Here are my suggestions:

Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.

Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I soldered from a kit.

Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard / veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.

After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start modifying other circuits.


Florian



Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. No smd soldering yet.




Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de<mailto:fanwander at mnet-online.de>> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz 2020, 11:49:
Hi

what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?

It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether you
are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.

Florian
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
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From quincas at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 22:51:11 2020
From: quincas at gmail.com (Quincas Moreira)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 15:51:11 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR9BXfN7W5Pyh-sYvUF10oWAXScPwiGC-ieGeV+_PifJiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACodTR9BXfN7W5Pyh-sYvUF10oWAXScPwiGC-ieGeV+_PifJiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34A880D0-110F-494C-A625-C0FBF38A7461@gmail.com>

Stattup from Thonk is a great beginner Build. Here are a few others too.

https://youtu.be/WWrpz-62uUw

https://youtu.be/NNwnMRZjHis

https://youtu.be/gtJdXUrh-Yc

https://youtu.be/-s7d3uUKo2c

https://youtu.be/x2Q00ynzNZY

https://youtu.be/lcR8zWEXC9I

https://youtu.be/8kCLRsU8U90

https://youtu.be/gv-hvCK81gs

Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Mar 2020, at 15:29, Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I would second this recommendation.
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:04 PM Jimmy Moore <jamoore84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> AI synthesis modules are good ones to start with 
>> 
>> https://aisynthesis.com/
>> 
>> Abe is a great guy
>> 
>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>>> 
>>>> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com>:
>>>> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>>>> 
>>>> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>>>> 
>>>> Ptee
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they are open source 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>>>>>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a compatible audio interface (ES-3/6, https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Lena!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here are my suggestions: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>>>>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>>>>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I soldered from a kit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard / veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start modifying other circuits.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>>>>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. No smd soldering yet. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz 2020, 11:49:
>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether you 
>>>>>>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From info at extrinia.com  Wed Mar 11 23:59:54 2020
From: info at extrinia.com (John P Shea)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 08:59:54 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] CZ-1000 update and memory mod help
In-Reply-To: <d409c297-9fac-1792-912e-16c145b7e3e0@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <33ff38fe-2471-fc98-d03f-f589de610b18@radioles.com>
 <d409c297-9fac-1792-912e-16c145b7e3e0@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CAFBTNJdvoDZ8rhYzXbAm0C6NXN2x+MtjwrTxQ-jiE9HGWaWqAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi MTG,

Don't get too freaked out! Without even looking at the schematic, you'll
know that it's an 80's era (probably 8-bit) era microprocessor, perhaps
even an early microcontroller. To support the CPU, it will typically need a
clock circuit, and no doubt there will be power on reset handling.

The micro will need to execute a program, and this will probably be in an
external ROM. Similarly, you need to store those presets, so some (battery
back up) RAM in there too. Now, the CPU will have to process inputs. What
inputs are on this synth?

Firstly, it will need to do keyboard scanning. The CZ-1000 is 4 (x2 osc) or
8 note (x1 osc) polyphonic, so the scanner will be some sort of rows and
cols jobby.

Moving on, it will also need to handle the buttons. Another scanner
possible.

Any other inputs? Yes, MIDI DIN, do there will be the opto and serial
circuitry for this.

Now for outputs. Obviously, we have the phase distortion audio out,
probably handled via an outboard DAC and filter/buffer. Next, we have
digital outs, including the button LEDs, the LCD, and MIDI Out, which could
be just a 5V non-inverting buffer.

To handle all of those peripherals, the CPU sends (probably) 8 data lines
to each. And to uniquely address each one, there will be address decoding
circuitry, look for the "CS" or chip select on each of the peripheral chips.

The point is, this is a known pattern. Because there will be a lot of
Japanese specific chips in there, it may may finding individual data sheets
a bit tricky. But its just a micro with some peripherals at the end of the
day!

All the fun part is in the ROM :)

Regards,
JPS

On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 02:00, MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:

> Wow, that (original) circuit is insane. Hopefully someone on this list
> can understand all of it because I sure can't.
>
> On 3/9/2020 9:31 PM, Joe Frey wrote:
> > Hello all, To those that answered my original post asking for guidance I
> > found the problem. The output relay had gone bad and needed to be
> replaced.
> >
> > So, after getting the synth to sound good again I decided to make an
> > improvement and add ram power management so my custom patches wouldn't
> > disappear when I put the synth in it's case for half a year. It turns
> > out there's a chap that made a mod that I found out about that people
> > say works. I contacted him and though he no longer provides the kit he
> > did supply the info to make that mod.
> >
> > https://www.artefacts.nl/bitsandpieces.html
> >
> > He also gave this advice, "_Before you start modifying the CZ you should
> > check if you can change the standby voltage as described in the
> > installation manual_. You should also check the RAM chips get a voltage
> > between 4.8Volt and 5.2Volt when the unit is switched on. If you can not
> > get these voltages within range the kit will not work."
> >
> > Of course being me, I ignored the first line of the instruction and made
> > and installed the mod. DOH! Now, everything is cozy and in place but I
> > can't use the trimmer to get the standby voltage down to 3.2V. I can get
> > it to 3.7V. I am wondering if I put a diode in the end of the VBR
> > regulator circuit to use the diode drop and try and  get from 3.7 to
> 3.2V?
> >
> > The schematic is found here.
> >
> >
> https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Casio-CZ1000-schematics.pdf
> >
> >
> > And the VBR power supply is at page 4, grid 4F. And, the ribbon cable
> > pin I am measuring voltage at is pin 9.
> >
> > Any advice is appreciated. JoeF.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From quincas at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 03:42:13 2020
From: quincas at gmail.com (Quincas Moreira)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 20:42:13 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB3472C88FB0B2C5D60D1C965EBBFC0@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE2FEOtOxV1R-=QWWUKPt5EWCWkgvKo_+FNsppCNTHf7Ch2bbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <SN6PR11MB3472C88FB0B2C5D60D1C965EBBFC0@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CA+u0JtmuKHYizScL3QR760SktP0BDxebFAp1s1Nfeeo0cyGYqg@mail.gmail.com>

Dan, funny you should mention Zlob! I JUST uploaded a kit overview for two
of Keven's modules, one of which the Mini ATT is very beginner friendly and
super useful:
https://youtu.be/lxpmso9T9nQ
<https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2Flxpmso9T9nQ%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2ul0wrzhQhp9swVbfAIZ-yxu4CeEDE3XQfOLVNc7j1WVZNWzpANuPTf-Y&h=AT3Zz4sfd1kGV5dMILtG8IQhvr-VwaEJz43whasj6bdxa2FaTsfgvj4OFfxaJki_JV-OTp22YqE9ZayB0t7NVNcVbKvTzHctjovsXZnVRJBHQJo0vIY7fl4jorkFlakwCtkTduag_4bW55P90il58_DmYlKAKfuzoorVdzxpbXymkt2adVZzPe4>
https://youtu.be/qMHQ2yf2Whg
<https://youtu.be/qMHQ2yf2Whg?fbclid=IwAR2pdFTXzXOIkdAV8cThhs8ltzwWU7tLZE_vkU3glKbmO8UVGIgRdT-B22E>

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 3:52 PM Dan Curriden <dcurriden at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I second Jimmy's recommendation of AI Synthesis. I've built several and
> all had clear instructions. Purchased PCBs and panels from Abe and got the
> components at Tayda. Most kits were around $45 for everything. Looping ADSR
> and Matrix Mixer are two I built that may fit your needs. I haven't built
> the mixer but it looks easy and useful.
>
> Also, Zlob Modular makes great kits and Kevin is friendly and helpful. He
> labels the build difficulty so you can choose an appropriate kit.
>
> Good luck!
> Dan
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Dharma
> Punx <modifythis at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 4:08 PM
> *To:* Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* synth-diy at synth-diy.org DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
>
> I am in the same situation as you Lena.  I started with a few PCB and
> Panel Kits from LMNC, now i am in the process of building up my first voice
> (ADSR,LFO,VCA,mixer etc) from other makers.  I am sticking to blank PCBs
> rather than kits, and am currently trying to make my own stripboard mixer
> from a pre-existing circuit schematic from AIsynthesis.  AIsynth, also
> makes some really good modules in eurorack format.
>
> I have been making lots of mistakes, but they have all taught me something.
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 1:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm
> still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>
> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <
> pete.hartman at gmail.com>:
>
> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>
> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>
> Ptee
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they
> are open source
>
> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>
> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with some
> selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then
> start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to
> check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a compatible
> audio interface (ES-3/6, https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de>
> wrote:
>
> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>
> Hi Lena!
>
> Here are my suggestions:
>
> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner are
> not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or the
> powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>
> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk should
> be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
> soldered from a kit.
>
> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard / veroboard /
> breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for schematics
> were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help you to
> design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
> modifying other circuits.
>
>
> Florian
>
>
>
> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>
> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. No
> smd soldering yet.
>
>
>
> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz 2020,
> 11:49:
>
> Hi
>
> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?
>
> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether you
> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>
> Florian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


-- 
[image: QMA]

Quincas Moreira
Director | QMA
mobile:  5534988825
site:  quincasmoreira.com
email:  quincas at gmail.com
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From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Thu Mar 12 03:55:02 2020
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 19:55:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] CZ-1000 update and memory mod help
In-Reply-To: <CAFBTNJdvoDZ8rhYzXbAm0C6NXN2x+MtjwrTxQ-jiE9HGWaWqAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33ff38fe-2471-fc98-d03f-f589de610b18@radioles.com>
 <d409c297-9fac-1792-912e-16c145b7e3e0@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAFBTNJdvoDZ8rhYzXbAm0C6NXN2x+MtjwrTxQ-jiE9HGWaWqAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d7e7e91f-4749-8722-2ac3-c194108c89de@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

I found the reset and battery voltage sufficiently insane. It needs to 
be completely rethought. I don't know how they got where they did, but a 
friend of mine made a MIDI processor out of TTL gates, so I guess 
anything's possible.


On 3/11/2020 3:59 PM, John P Shea wrote:
> Hi MTG,
>
> Don't get too freaked out! Without even looking at the schematic, 
> you'll know that it's an 80's era (probably 8-bit) era microprocessor, 
> perhaps even an early microcontroller. To support the CPU, it will 
> typically need a clock circuit, and no doubt there will be power on 
> reset handling.
>
> The micro will need to execute a program, and this will probably be in 
> an external ROM. Similarly, you need to store those presets, so some 
> (battery back up) RAM in there too. Now, the CPU will have to process 
> inputs. What inputs are on this synth?
>
> Firstly, it will need to do keyboard scanning. The CZ-1000 is 4 (x2 
> osc) or 8 note (x1 osc) polyphonic, so the scanner will be some sort 
> of rows and cols jobby.
>
> Moving on, it will also need to handle the buttons. Another scanner 
> possible.
>
> Any other inputs? Yes, MIDI DIN, do there will be the opto and serial 
> circuitry for this.
>
> Now for outputs. Obviously, we have the phase distortion audio out, 
> probably handled via an outboard DAC and filter/buffer. Next, we have 
> digital outs, including the button LEDs, the LCD, and MIDI Out, which 
> could be just a 5V non-inverting buffer.
>
> To handle all of those peripherals, the CPU sends (probably) 8 data 
> lines to each. And to uniquely address each one, there will be address 
> decoding circuitry, look for the "CS" or chip select on each of the 
> peripheral chips.
>
> The point is, this is a known pattern. Because there will be a lot of 
> Japanese specific chips in there, it may may finding individual data 
> sheets a bit tricky. But its just a micro with some peripherals at the 
> end of the day!
>
> All the fun part is in the ROM :)
>
> Regards,
> JPS
>
> On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 02:00, MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com 
> <mailto:grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>> wrote:
>
>     Wow, that (original) circuit is insane. Hopefully someone on this
>     list
>     can understand all of it because I sure can't.
>
>     On 3/9/2020 9:31 PM, Joe Frey wrote:
>     > Hello all, To those that answered my original post asking for
>     guidance I
>     > found the problem. The output relay had gone bad and needed to
>     be replaced.
>     >
>     > So, after getting the synth to sound good again I decided to
>     make an
>     > improvement and add ram power management so my custom patches
>     wouldn't
>     > disappear when I put the synth in it's case for half a year. It
>     turns
>     > out there's a chap that made a mod that I found out about that
>     people
>     > say works. I contacted him and though he no longer provides the
>     kit he
>     > did supply the info to make that mod.
>     >
>     > https://www.artefacts.nl/bitsandpieces.html
>     >
>     > He also gave this advice, "_Before you start modifying the CZ
>     you should
>     > check if you can change the standby voltage as described in the
>     > installation manual_. You should also check the RAM chips get a
>     voltage
>     > between 4.8Volt and 5.2Volt when the unit is switched on. If you
>     can not
>     > get these voltages within range the kit will not work."
>     >
>     > Of course being me, I ignored the first line of the instruction
>     and made
>     > and installed the mod. DOH! Now, everything is cozy and in place
>     but I
>     > can't use the trimmer to get the standby voltage down to 3.2V. I
>     can get
>     > it to 3.7V. I am wondering if I put a diode in the end of the VBR
>     > regulator circuit to use the diode drop and try and? get from
>     3.7 to 3.2V?
>     >
>     > The schematic is found here.
>     >
>     >
>     https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Casio-CZ1000-schematics.pdf
>
>     >
>     >
>     > And the VBR power supply is at page 4, grid 4F. And, the ribbon
>     cable
>     > pin I am measuring voltage at is pin 9.
>     >
>     > Any advice is appreciated. JoeF.
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Synth-diy mailing list
>     > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>     > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>     _______________________________________________
>     Synth-diy mailing list
>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

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From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Thu Mar 12 05:40:37 2020
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 23:40:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0a02dc1-5c03-b9e2-100c-8e5bd1bee247@ix.netcom.com>

Great bang for the buck!

https://www.paia.com


On 3/11/20 3:52 PM, Lena Kolb wrote:
> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? 
> I'm still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>
> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50?Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman 
> <pete.hartman at gmail.com <mailto:pete.hartman at gmail.com>>:
>
>     They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>
>     It would depend on your soldering experience.
>
>     Ptee
>
>     On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've
>         heard they are open source
>
>         Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com <mailto:maohelin at gmail.com>>
>         schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>
>             Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small
>             rack with some selected ready-built Eurorack modules
>             (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then start filling the empty
>             space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to check
>             things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST
>             (https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and
>             find a compatible audio interface (ES-3/6,
>             https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>
>             On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander
>             <fanwander at mnet-online.de
>             <mailto:fanwander at mnet-online.de>> wrote:
>
>                 @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>
>                 Hi Lena!
>
>                 Here are my suggestions:
>
>                 Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest
>                 problems for a beginner are not the electronic things,
>                 but the mechanical stuff.
>                 Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing,
>                 modules and/or the powersupply) and add your diy
>                 modules then.
>
>                 Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and
>                 parts. Thonk should be a good place to start.
>                 https://www.thonk.co.uk
>                 In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a
>                 working device I soldered from a kit.
>
>                 Then you may continue with building a module on a
>                 stripboard / veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given
>                 schematic (potential sources for schematics were
>                 already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may
>                 help you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,?
>                 developing the layout on the stripboard and creating
>                 an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>
>                 After that you may either develop your first own
>                 circuit, or start modifying other circuits.
>
>
>                 Florian
>
>
>
>                 Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>                 My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered
>>                 stuff a few times. No smd soldering yet.
>>
>
>
>>                 Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de
>>                 <mailto:fanwander at mnet-online.de>> schrieb am Mo., 9.
>>                 M?rz 2020, 11:49:
>>
>>                     Hi
>>
>>                     what knowledge do you have about synths,
>>                     electronics, and/or soldering?
>>
>>                     It is something different whether you are
>>                     musician "only" or whether you
>>                     are skilled with soldering electronic kits like
>>                     guitar pedals.
>>
>>                     Florian
>>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 Synth-diy mailing list
>                 Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>                 http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             Synth-diy mailing list
>             Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>             http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Synth-diy mailing list
>         Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>         http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 12 05:55:35 2020
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 21:55:35 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
 <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97315D1DD5264AF0A776C06EA0E2718F@david78c70950b>

For the math of frequency shifters, you just need a bit of trigonometry and a smattering of algebra.  You need these for most audio electronics, actually.  I am one of those old-school types who believes that trig and algebra are within the purview of everyone, even those who attended art school.  Transfer functions require some calculus and Laplace/Fourier transforms, and that is really the subject matter of an electronic engineering education (although all process engineers learn Laplace transforms for the purposes of designing control networks, e.g., for automatic control of chemical plants).

 

  _____  

From: ColinMuirDorward [mailto:colindorward at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 12:06 PM
To: David G Dixon
Cc: Tom Bugs; *SYNTH DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] frequency shifter

 

Ok, I see now why I've never heard of this dome filter aka phase shift network, because it's patented/protected material. 

Tom, do you have any audio clips to share?

 

Re the maths, what's the quickest route to get there? I just wrapped up ten years of art school, maybe it's time I got a real education now.

 

C

 

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:44 PM David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:

I?d be lost without the maths.  I always derive the transfer functions of any filters I design, for example, and I have found that to be invaluable.

 


  _____  


From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Bugs
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 12:49 PM
To: *SYNTH DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] frequency shifter

 

Don't feel you *have* to get tangled up in maths - I could do maths up through my technical university course, but frankly it never conveyed spirit to me & I rarely go anywhere deep with it in any of my designing.
I was also going to suggest looking up the CGS Dome Filter (the phase shift network mentioned) but don't think schematics were presented - it does, however, state the Electronotes article I referred to - #83
https://sdiy.info/wiki/CGS_dome_filter

On 11/03/2020 15:22, ColinMuirDorward wrote:

I'm still working on these replies, folks, thanks for the discussion! 

OK, TBH, I'm pretty lost. It's probably beyond me without having the math. Is it anything like barber-poling a series of APF filters?

 

 

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 9:43 AM Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com> wrote:

This is a celebrated one, by JHaible. I have the pcb, waiting for the day when i?ll have time to source the parts... 

 

http://jhaible.com/legacy/frequency_shifter_fs1a/fs1a

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On 11 Mar 2020, at 4:11, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:

? 

My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's description! But I remember there's a good basis in an old Electronotes - I didn't follow it exactly by any stretch but it really helped me design my own, the theory I took being:
1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the modulating input coming one from sine / one from cosine
4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up & down shifts.

What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping the ideas at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control + output mixing/panning. Really great audio processor, even at LFO rates where it becomes a wonderful phaser type machine.

On 11/03/2020 07:28, David G Dixon wrote:

I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.  This is frequency shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric product-to-sum formulae using electronic circuits:

 

sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) ? cos (u + v)]

 

cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) + cos (u + v)]

 

So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature signals (say, u is the audio you want to shift and v is the on-board quadrature oscillator), then if you multiply the signals together (using a four-quadrant multiplier) and also multiply their quadrature signals together (using a second four-quadrant multiplier) then you can sum the multiplier outputs together, and you will get the following (by adding the two equations together):

 

cos (u ? v)

 

This represents the audio signal u which has been frequency-shifted downward by the frequency of the oscillator signal v.  Of course, the audio signal probably has many frequencies u occurring simultaneously, and they will all be shifted down by v.  That?s what makes frequency shifting sound so alien and weird.

 

By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output signals (based on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover the up-shifted audio:

 

cos (u + v) 

 

With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo effect.

 

The entire circuit consists of a 90-degree phase displacement network to generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed mine with 12 stages from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I found on the internet called QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator to generate both sine and cosine waves at frequency v (mine is TZFM and consists of two Rubicon cores with sine shapers, with one syncing the other in such a way that the two are always 90 degrees out of phase), two four-quadrant multipliers (I built a dual unit from a single 2164 chip ? two linearized VCAs), and a couple of output amplifier stages for doing the summing.  The key to success is to AC couple the signals into the multipliers to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming signal, which is the single largest source of error in the circuit.  If that is done properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate summing resistors are chosen).

 

The circuit works great and sounds super freaky.  I?m going to be building another one for one of our members here shortly.

 

 


  _____  


From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of ColinMuirDorward
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
To: *SYNTH DIY
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter

 

Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is. I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).

I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.

Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it even doing? 

Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any thoughts/experience they'd like to share.

Cheers,

Colin


-- 

https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/

- <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/> 


https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/

 

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From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Thu Mar 12 05:58:36 2020
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 21:58:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
 <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <451C7B87CECD442DA0B901A72DE74857@david78c70950b>

Also, the phase displacement network is not protected material.  It is well known.  That?s why there is a nice piece of software on the web for designing them (QuadNet from Tonne Software: www.tonnesoftware.com <http://www.tonnesoftware.com/>  ).  Also, there is a very good writeup of the whole Bode frequency shifter concept in Electronotes, although I?m not sure if it?s in the ?public-domain? part of Electronotes or the part you have to buy from Bernie.  I had a complete collection of Electronotes for a while, and read all about it.  I chose not to use most of the suggested circuitry, but the concepts and ideas were all there. 

 

  _____  

From: ColinMuirDorward [mailto:colindorward at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 12:06 PM
To: David G Dixon
Cc: Tom Bugs; *SYNTH DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] frequency shifter

 

Ok, I see now why I've never heard of this dome filter aka phase shift network, because it's patented/protected material. 

Tom, do you have any audio clips to share?

 

Re the maths, what's the quickest route to get there? I just wrapped up ten years of art school, maybe it's time I got a real education now.

 

C

 

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:44 PM David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:

I?d be lost without the maths.  I always derive the transfer functions of any filters I design, for example, and I have found that to be invaluable.

 


  _____  


From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Bugs
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 12:49 PM
To: *SYNTH DIY
Subject: Re: [sdiy] frequency shifter

 

Don't feel you *have* to get tangled up in maths - I could do maths up through my technical university course, but frankly it never conveyed spirit to me & I rarely go anywhere deep with it in any of my designing.
I was also going to suggest looking up the CGS Dome Filter (the phase shift network mentioned) but don't think schematics were presented - it does, however, state the Electronotes article I referred to - #83
https://sdiy.info/wiki/CGS_dome_filter

On 11/03/2020 15:22, ColinMuirDorward wrote:

I'm still working on these replies, folks, thanks for the discussion! 

OK, TBH, I'm pretty lost. It's probably beyond me without having the math. Is it anything like barber-poling a series of APF filters?

 

 

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 9:43 AM Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com> wrote:

This is a celebrated one, by JHaible. I have the pcb, waiting for the day when i?ll have time to source the parts... 

 

http://jhaible.com/legacy/frequency_shifter_fs1a/fs1a

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On 11 Mar 2020, at 4:11, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:

? 

My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's description! But I remember there's a good basis in an old Electronotes - I didn't follow it exactly by any stretch but it really helped me design my own, the theory I took being:
1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the modulating input coming one from sine / one from cosine
4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up & down shifts.

What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping the ideas at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control + output mixing/panning. Really great audio processor, even at LFO rates where it becomes a wonderful phaser type machine.

On 11/03/2020 07:28, David G Dixon wrote:

I built a frequency shifter following the Bode plan.  This is frequency shifting by manifesting certain trigonometric product-to-sum formulae using electronic circuits:

 

sin u sin v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) ? cos (u + v)]

 

cos u cos v = 0.5 [cos(u ? v) + cos (u + v)]

 

So, if you have two signals with their 90-degree quadrature signals (say, u is the audio you want to shift and v is the on-board quadrature oscillator), then if you multiply the signals together (using a four-quadrant multiplier) and also multiply their quadrature signals together (using a second four-quadrant multiplier) then you can sum the multiplier outputs together, and you will get the following (by adding the two equations together):

 

cos (u ? v)

 

This represents the audio signal u which has been frequency-shifted downward by the frequency of the oscillator signal v.  Of course, the audio signal probably has many frequencies u occurring simultaneously, and they will all be shifted down by v.  That?s what makes frequency shifting sound so alien and weird.

 

By being clever with the summations of the multiplier output signals (based on a little bit of algebra), you can also recover the up-shifted audio:

 

cos (u + v) 

 

With both the down- and up-shifted signals, you can get a stereo effect.

 

The entire circuit consists of a 90-degree phase displacement network to generate the cosine of the incoming audio (I designed mine with 12 stages from 15 Hz to 15 kHz using a little thing I found on the internet called QuadNet), a quadrature oscillator to generate both sine and cosine waves at frequency v (mine is TZFM and consists of two Rubicon cores with sine shapers, with one syncing the other in such a way that the two are always 90 degrees out of phase), two four-quadrant multipliers (I built a dual unit from a single 2164 chip ? two linearized VCAs), and a couple of output amplifier stages for doing the summing.  The key to success is to AC couple the signals into the multipliers to eliminate DC offsets in the incoming signal, which is the single largest source of error in the circuit.  If that is done properly, the multipliers require no trimming (if accurate summing resistors are chosen).

 

The circuit works great and sounds super freaky.  I?m going to be building another one for one of our members here shortly.

 

 


  _____  


From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of ColinMuirDorward
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:01 PM
To: *SYNTH DIY
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter

 

Hi, I got a little lost trying to understand what a frequency shifter is. I mean the pre-digital method used by Moog (I think?).

I recently built a 4pole APF, and was really impressed with some of the pitching effects I could achieve with it. I'm guessing this is an entirely different method than the frequency shifters like Moog and JH have done.

Is the APF method used by anyone? What are its limitations, and what is it even doing? 

Well, I guess I'm just looking for some conversation on the topic of analog frequency/pitch shifting methods. If anyone has any thoughts/experience they'd like to share.

Cheers,

Colin


-- 

https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/

- <https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/> 


https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/

 

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1 Ninetree Hill
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https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/

-- 
BugBrand LTD
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VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
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United Kingdom
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From abide at dmdrafting.com  Thu Mar 12 14:47:57 2020
From: abide at dmdrafting.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 09:47:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <f0a02dc1-5c03-b9e2-100c-8e5bd1bee247@ix.netcom.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <f0a02dc1-5c03-b9e2-100c-8e5bd1bee247@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <006601d5f874$d776ce80$86646b80$@dmdrafting.com>

While I do love Paia (their MIDI-CV was my first module),  Don?t forget they are not physically compatible with Eurorack cases and power connectors

 

Dave

 

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Oren Leavitt
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 12:41 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths

 

Great bang for the buck!

https://www.paia.com

 

On 3/11/20 3:52 PM, Lena Kolb wrote:

Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.

 

Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com <mailto:pete.hartman at gmail.com> >:

They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.

It would depend on your soldering experience.

Ptee

 

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com <mailto:lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they are open source 

 

Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com <mailto:maohelin at gmail.com> > schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:

Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST ( <https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a compatible audio interface (ES-3/6,  <https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).

 

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de <mailto:fanwander at mnet-online.de> > wrote:

@all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:

Hi Lena!

Here are my suggestions: 

Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.

Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I soldered from a kit.

Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard / veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.

After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start modifying other circuits.

 

Florian

 

 

Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:

My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. No smd soldering yet. 

 

 

 

Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de <mailto:fanwander at mnet-online.de> > schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz 2020, 11:49:

Hi

what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?

It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether you 
are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.

Florian

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From tom at electricdruid.net  Thu Mar 12 16:37:10 2020
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 15:37:10 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>

I?d also recommend the Frequency Central DIY modules (they sell completed modules too). Their stuff is all through-hole parts, so it?s easy to solder.

https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/ <https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/>

Full disclosure: I used to do some PCB design for Rick some years ago, and we?ve worked on some modules together too.

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================

> On 11 Mar 2020, at 21:03, Jimmy Moore <jamoore84 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> AI synthesis modules are good ones to start with 
> 
> https://aisynthesis.com/ <https://aisynthesis.com/>
> 
> Abe is a great guy
> 
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com <mailto:lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
> 
> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com <mailto:pete.hartman at gmail.com>>:
> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
> 
> It would depend on your soldering experience.
> 
> Ptee
> 
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com <mailto:lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they are open source 
> 
> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com <mailto:maohelin at gmail.com>> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html <https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html>) and find a compatible audio interface (ES-3/6, https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html <https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html>).
> 
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de <mailto:fanwander at mnet-online.de>> wrote:
> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
> 
> Hi Lena!
> 
> Here are my suggestions: 
> 
> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a beginner are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
> 
> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk <https://www.thonk.co.uk/>
> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I soldered from a kit.
> 
> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard / veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
> 
> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start modifying other circuits.
> 
> 
> Florian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times. No smd soldering yet. 
>> 
> 
> 
>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de <mailto:fanwander at mnet-online.de>> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz 2020, 11:49:
>> Hi
>> 
>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or soldering?
>> 
>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether you 
>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>> 
>> Florian
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From maohelin at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 19:33:30 2020
From: maohelin at gmail.com (Mikko Helin)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:33:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>

There are too many Eurorack module suppliers to mention. There must be a
list somewhere. It depends much (not so much but a little at least) on
which side of Atlantic you live.

https://www.ericasynths.lv/
https://www.thonk.co.uk/
https://www.uk-electronic.de
<https://www.uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?osCsid=fe42d14c3f5987bcde7f7664fcd080a2>
https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/

Then there is the rack stuff like
https://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_a100_diy_kit_1.htm
an a lot more...



On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 5:41 PM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

> I?d also recommend the Frequency Central DIY modules (they sell completed
> modules too). Their stuff is all through-hole parts, so it?s easy to solder.
>
> https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/
>
> Full disclosure: I used to do some PCB design for Rick some years ago, and
> we?ve worked on some modules together too.
>
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
>
> On 11 Mar 2020, at 21:03, Jimmy Moore <jamoore84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> AI synthesis modules are good ones to start with
>
> https://aisynthesis.com/
>
> Abe is a great guy
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm
>> still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>>
>> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <
>> pete.hartman at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>>>
>>> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>>>
>>> Ptee
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard they
>>>> are open source
>>>>
>>>> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with
>>>>> some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and
>>>>> then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful
>>>>> also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a
>>>>> compatible audio interface (ES-3/6,
>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <
>>>>> fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Lena!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a
>>>>>> beginner are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>>>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or
>>>>>> the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk
>>>>>> should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>>>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
>>>>>> soldered from a kit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard /
>>>>>> veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for
>>>>>> schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help
>>>>>> you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>>>>>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>>>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>>>>>> modifying other circuits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times.
>>>>>> No smd soldering yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz
>>>>>> 2020, 11:49:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or
>>>>>>> soldering?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or whether
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From maohelin at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 19:36:29 2020
From: maohelin at gmail.com (Mikko Helin)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:36:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>

Forgot Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=eurorack&_sacat=0


On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 8:33 PM Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> wrote:

> There are too many Eurorack module suppliers to mention. There must be a
> list somewhere. It depends much (not so much but a little at least) on
> which side of Atlantic you live.
>
> https://www.ericasynths.lv/
> https://www.thonk.co.uk/
> https://www.uk-electronic.de
> <https://www.uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?osCsid=fe42d14c3f5987bcde7f7664fcd080a2>
> https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/
>
> Then there is the rack stuff like
> https://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_a100_diy_kit_1.htm
> an a lot more...
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 5:41 PM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I?d also recommend the Frequency Central DIY modules (they sell completed
>> modules too). Their stuff is all through-hole parts, so it?s easy to solder.
>>
>> https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/
>>
>> Full disclosure: I used to do some PCB design for Rick some years ago,
>> and we?ve worked on some modules together too.
>>
>> ==================
>>        Electric Druid
>> Synth & Stompbox DIY
>> ==================
>>
>> On 11 Mar 2020, at 21:03, Jimmy Moore <jamoore84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> AI synthesis modules are good ones to start with
>>
>> https://aisynthesis.com/
>>
>> Abe is a great guy
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible? I'm
>>> still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>>>
>>> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <
>>> pete.hartman at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>>>>
>>>> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>>>>
>>>> Ptee
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard
>>>>> they are open source
>>>>>
>>>>> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020, 19:49:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with
>>>>>> some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and
>>>>>> then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful
>>>>>> also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
>>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a
>>>>>> compatible audio interface (ES-3/6,
>>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <
>>>>>> fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Lena!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a
>>>>>>> beginner are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>>>>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules and/or
>>>>>>> the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk
>>>>>>> should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>>>>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
>>>>>>> soldered from a kit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard /
>>>>>>> veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for
>>>>>>> schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help
>>>>>>> you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>>>>>>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>>>>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>>>>>>> modifying other circuits.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few times.
>>>>>>> No smd soldering yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9. M?rz
>>>>>>> 2020, 11:49:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or
>>>>>>>> soldering?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or
>>>>>>>> whether you
>>>>>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From maohelin at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 19:39:09 2020
From: maohelin at gmail.com (Mikko Helin)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:39:09 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.modulargrid.net/

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 8:36 PM Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Forgot Ebay:
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=eurorack&_sacat=0
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 8:33 PM Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There are too many Eurorack module suppliers to mention. There must be a
>> list somewhere. It depends much (not so much but a little at least) on
>> which side of Atlantic you live.
>>
>> https://www.ericasynths.lv/
>> https://www.thonk.co.uk/
>> https://www.uk-electronic.de
>> <https://www.uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?osCsid=fe42d14c3f5987bcde7f7664fcd080a2>
>> https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/
>>
>> Then there is the rack stuff like
>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_a100_diy_kit_1.htm
>> an a lot more...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 5:41 PM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I?d also recommend the Frequency Central DIY modules (they sell
>>> completed modules too). Their stuff is all through-hole parts, so it?s easy
>>> to solder.
>>>
>>> https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/
>>>
>>> Full disclosure: I used to do some PCB design for Rick some years ago,
>>> and we?ve worked on some modules together too.
>>>
>>> ==================
>>>        Electric Druid
>>> Synth & Stompbox DIY
>>> ==================
>>>
>>> On 11 Mar 2020, at 21:03, Jimmy Moore <jamoore84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> AI synthesis modules are good ones to start with
>>>
>>> https://aisynthesis.com/
>>>
>>> Abe is a great guy
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible?
>>>> I'm still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>>>>
>>>> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <
>>>> pete.hartman at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ptee
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard
>>>>>> they are open source
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020,
>>>>>> 19:49:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with
>>>>>>> some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and
>>>>>>> then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful
>>>>>>> also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
>>>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a
>>>>>>> compatible audio interface (ES-3/6,
>>>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <
>>>>>>> fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Lena!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a
>>>>>>>> beginner are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>>>>>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules
>>>>>>>> and/or the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk
>>>>>>>> should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>>>>>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device I
>>>>>>>> soldered from a kit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard /
>>>>>>>> veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for
>>>>>>>> schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help
>>>>>>>> you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>>>>>>>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>>>>>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>>>>>>>> modifying other circuits.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few
>>>>>>>> times. No smd soldering yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9.
>>>>>>>> M?rz 2020, 11:49:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or
>>>>>>>>> soldering?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or
>>>>>>>>> whether you
>>>>>>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>
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From jamoore84 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 19:48:25 2020
From: jamoore84 at gmail.com (Jimmy Moore)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:48:25 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>

Modular grid is the place to go if you want an extensive list of what is
(or was) available.  You can even search by "build type" to find DIY
modules.



On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 12:42 PM Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://www.modulargrid.net/
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 8:36 PM Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Forgot Ebay:
>> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=eurorack&_sacat=0
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 8:33 PM Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There are too many Eurorack module suppliers to mention. There must be a
>>> list somewhere. It depends much (not so much but a little at least) on
>>> which side of Atlantic you live.
>>>
>>> https://www.ericasynths.lv/
>>> https://www.thonk.co.uk/
>>> https://www.uk-electronic.de
>>> <https://www.uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?osCsid=fe42d14c3f5987bcde7f7664fcd080a2>
>>> https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/
>>>
>>> Then there is the rack stuff like
>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_a100_diy_kit_1.htm
>>> an a lot more...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 5:41 PM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I?d also recommend the Frequency Central DIY modules (they sell
>>>> completed modules too). Their stuff is all through-hole parts, so it?s easy
>>>> to solder.
>>>>
>>>> https://frequencycentral.co.uk/product-category/eurorack/
>>>>
>>>> Full disclosure: I used to do some PCB design for Rick some years ago,
>>>> and we?ve worked on some modules together too.
>>>>
>>>> ==================
>>>>        Electric Druid
>>>> Synth & Stompbox DIY
>>>> ==================
>>>>
>>>> On 11 Mar 2020, at 21:03, Jimmy Moore <jamoore84 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> AI synthesis modules are good ones to start with
>>>>
>>>> https://aisynthesis.com/
>>>>
>>>> Abe is a great guy
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:55 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can you recommend some specific kits which are as cheap as possible?
>>>>> I'm still a student, so I don't have a lot of money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020 um 21:50 Uhr schrieb Pete Hartman <
>>>>> pete.hartman at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> They are generally very small SMD, so I would say probably not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would depend on your soldering experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ptee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are the Mutable Instruments Modules good for beginners. I've heard
>>>>>>> they are open source
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mikko Helin <maohelin at gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 11. M?rz 2020,
>>>>>>> 19:49:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, it would be a good idea to first first build a small rack with
>>>>>>>> some selected ready-built Eurorack modules (Doepfer, Behringer etc.) and
>>>>>>>> then start filling the empty space with DIY modules. It might be useful
>>>>>>>> also to check things like Expert Sleepers Silent Way VST (
>>>>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html) and find a
>>>>>>>> compatible audio interface (ES-3/6,
>>>>>>>> https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/es3.html).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:03 PM Florian Anwander <
>>>>>>>> fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> @all Lena answered directly to me, but not to the list:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Lena!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Start with Eurorack modular stuff. The biggest problems for a
>>>>>>>>> beginner are not the electronic things, but the mechanical stuff.
>>>>>>>>> Also you can rely on existing working parts (housing, modules
>>>>>>>>> and/or the powersupply) and add your diy modules then.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Start first with a kit that is delivered with PCB and parts. Thonk
>>>>>>>>> should be a good place to start. https://www.thonk.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> In my beginnings nothing made me more proud than a working device
>>>>>>>>> I soldered from a kit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then you may continue with building a module on a stripboard /
>>>>>>>>> veroboard / breadboard pcb using a given schematic (potential sources for
>>>>>>>>> schematics were already named on the list). Software like VeeCad may help
>>>>>>>>> you to design the pcb. Sourcing the parts,  developing the layout on the
>>>>>>>>> stripboard and creating an own panel will be the challenging tasks here.
>>>>>>>>> After that you may either develop your first own circuit, or start
>>>>>>>>> modifying other circuits.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 11.03.20 um 13:15 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My Knowledge is mainly musical, but I've soldered stuff a few
>>>>>>>>> times. No smd soldering yet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> schrieb am Mo., 9.
>>>>>>>>> M?rz 2020, 11:49:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> what knowledge do you have about synths, electronics, and/or
>>>>>>>>>> soldering?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is something different whether you are musician "only" or
>>>>>>>>>> whether you
>>>>>>>>>> are skilled with soldering electronic kits like guitar pedals.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Thu Mar 12 20:18:21 2020
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:18:21 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It might be 
more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.


From lenakolb2204 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 23:00:02 2020
From: lenakolb2204 at gmail.com (Lena Kolb)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 23:00:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy

MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> schrieb am Do., 12. M?rz 2020, 20:20:

> Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It might be
> more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Thu Mar 12 23:09:25 2020
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 22:09:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy57xvo2KL_9yi6ybvJFNKx_Zydj1j0=2UJoGUqXwOBcfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <3f9128d162784bc58911db3a13f88507@jeppesen.com>
 <CAGV3gy57xvo2KL_9yi6ybvJFNKx_Zydj1j0=2UJoGUqXwOBcfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200312220925.GA30764@gjcp.net>

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:51:12PM -0400, ColinMuirDorward wrote:
> Also, can you explain like I'm stupid the difference between pitch and
> frequency shifting? It sounds like a linear vs exponential thing, but must
> be more to it than that...

It is indeed a linear versus expo thing.  Pitch shifting is what you get when you speed tape up - double the speed, double the pitch.  An octave jump is still an octave, it's just both are an octave higher than before.  You multiply the frequency.

Frequency shifting adds to the frequency, instead of multiplying.  So a low A on a guitar string at 110Hz shifted up 110Hz would be 220Hz, an octave up.  But, if you fed in 220Hz you'd get 330Hz out, an E instead of an A, and 330Hz in would give you 440Hz, an A, and 440Hz in would give 550Hz or a slightly flat C#, and 550Hz would give you an E again, and so on.

You can imagine how mangled that would make things sound.

Or actually, you don't need to:

https://minecraft.gjcp.net/9970kHz.ogg

This is an AM shortwave radio station being tuned in and out on an SSB receiver, which is really just a big Bode frequency shifter.

-- 
Gordonjcp


From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Thu Mar 12 23:22:12 2020
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 22:22:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A0C6C911DB5144EB9A26DDF21E023DDF@david78c70950b>
 <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20200312222212.GA31046@gjcp.net>

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 10:05:45AM +0000, Tom Bugs wrote:
> My brain is not awake enough to closely follow Dave's description! But I
> remember there's a good basis in an old Electronotes - I didn't follow it
> exactly by any stretch but it really helped me design my own, the theory I
> took being:
> 1) make a quadrature sine/cosine VCO
> 2) audio input splits to two 6-stage all-pass filter
> 3) each filter-chain is followed by a RingMod/Multiplier with the modulating
> input coming one from sine / one from cosine
> 4) then you do sum & difference of the two ring mods to get up & down
> shifts.
> 
> What I really enjoyed was adding feedback! In fact, redeveloping the ideas
> at the moment & adding in a bit of extra control + output mixing/panning.
> Really great audio processor, even at LFO rates where it becomes a wonderful
> phaser type machine.
>

If you want a digital implementation of it, look into Software-Defined Radio.

This might even still build:
https://github.com/gordonjcp/lysdr

-- 
Gordonjcp


From shedsynth at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 10:50:42 2020
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:50:42 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com> <CAGdk871u
 J2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>

Hi Lena,

this is brilliant: you?re getting every possible answer to your original question.

 

Do you have access to any sort of MIDI keyboard?

You might like to look at this:

https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-Arduino-sound-synthesizer-with-MIDI/

That could be a good intro to following a circuit, soldering, working with Arduino and generally bodging things together to make a noise.

In fact I was inspired this week by your original message to add MIDI input to a module I built two years ago, and the code from that instructable sounds quite sweet.

 

This is a safer MIDI circuit, you don?t want to fry a borrowed keyboard:

https://arduino.stackexchange.com/questions/56279/how-do-i-properly-receive-midi-with-arduino-with-6n138

 

If you don?t want to build an amplifier you can connect to an audio input like this:

https://sensorium.github.io/Mozzi/learn/output/

 

Al

 

 

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Lena Kolb
Sent: 12 March 2020 22:00
To: MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths

 

I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy 

 

MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com <mailto:grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> > schrieb am Do., 12. M?rz 2020, 20:20:

Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It might be 
more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> 
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 11:00:35 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 10:00:35 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMx+NpYNHpzJ+snZbJfOSvAUWf1t_fUH=tEK44StgujxBJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Lena,

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but:

https://www.soundtronics.co.uk/midi-ultimate-synth/

Neil


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 22:03, Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy
>
> MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> schrieb am Do., 12. M?rz 2020,
> 20:20:
>
>> Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It might be
>> more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Fri Mar 13 12:51:59 2020
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:51:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <20200312220925.GA30764@gjcp.net>
References: <CAGV3gy7cPaqtCG=5Bv++-R_a3FLkRdfvf7LiS+Fntffc9fPjiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <3f9128d162784bc58911db3a13f88507@jeppesen.com>
 <CAGV3gy57xvo2KL_9yi6ybvJFNKx_Zydj1j0=2UJoGUqXwOBcfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20200312220925.GA30764@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <a8f29af127946b68cecd28cdc0d0fd12@richieburnett.co.uk>

To add to Gordon's frequency shifter explanation...

The reason why a frequency shifter often sounds odd is because it breaks 
the harmonic series of typical sounds.  For example if an instrument 
plays an "A" at 220Hz, the sound typically consists of a series of 
harmonics at 220, 440, 660, 880, 1100Hz, etc.  But if you frequency 
shift this up by say 50 Hz, those spectral components get shifted to 
270, 490, 710, 930, 1150Hz, etc.  These are clearly now not in a simple 
harmonic relationship!  This sounds dissonant or "metallic" to our 
hearing because we expect sounds that typically have an approximately 
harmonic spectrum.

This is in contrast to a pitch shifter that multiplies the frequencies 
of all of the harmonics by the same scaling amount.  This preserves the 
harmonic series, just shifted to a different fundamental frequency,  and 
therefore sounds much more musical and natural.

I think a lot of terminology surrounding frequency shifting is confusing 
because the same thing is referred to in different fields by different 
names.  e.g. Pitch shifting is achieved by multiplying signals together, 
but it doesn't result in a multiplication of the frequency, it results 
in a linear frequency shift.  Also, this operation can be referred to as 
multiplying, heterodyning, mixing, modulation, etc. depending on what 
engineering background the person is coming from!

Unfortunately, it is hard to understand exactly what is going on in a 
pitch shifter without stepping into a bit of maths and talking about 
trig identities, complex vectors, positive and negative frequency, etc.

-Richie,


On 2020-03-12 22:09, Gordonjcp wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:51:12PM -0400, ColinMuirDorward wrote:
>> Also, can you explain like I'm stupid the difference between pitch and
>> frequency shifting? It sounds like a linear vs exponential thing, but 
>> must
>> be more to it than that...
> 
> It is indeed a linear versus expo thing.  Pitch shifting is what you
> get when you speed tape up - double the speed, double the pitch.  An
> octave jump is still an octave, it's just both are an octave higher
> than before.  You multiply the frequency.
> 
> Frequency shifting adds to the frequency, instead of multiplying.  So
> a low A on a guitar string at 110Hz shifted up 110Hz would be 220Hz,
> an octave up.  But, if you fed in 220Hz you'd get 330Hz out, an E
> instead of an A, and 330Hz in would give you 440Hz, an A, and 440Hz in
> would give 550Hz or a slightly flat C#, and 550Hz would give you an E
> again, and so on.
> 
> You can imagine how mangled that would make things sound.
> 
> Or actually, you don't need to:
> 
> https://minecraft.gjcp.net/9970kHz.ogg
> 
> This is an AM shortwave radio station being tuned in and out on an SSB
> receiver, which is really just a big Bode frequency shifter.


From lenakolb2204 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 14:19:04 2020
From: lenakolb2204 at gmail.com (Lena Kolb)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:19:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, i have a midi keyboard. But midi is quite a good idea. I may take a
look at a midi controller with faders. Like a mixer controller. Do you have
some links for that

ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com> schrieb am Fr., 13. M?rz 2020, 10:50:

> Hi Lena,
>
> this is brilliant: you?re getting every possible answer to your original
> question.
>
>
>
> Do you have access to any sort of MIDI keyboard?
>
> You might like to look at this:
>
>
> https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-Arduino-sound-synthesizer-with-MIDI/
>
> That could be a good intro to following a circuit, soldering, working with
> Arduino and generally bodging things together to make a noise.
>
> In fact I was inspired this week by your original message to add MIDI
> input to a module I built two years ago, and the code from that
> instructable sounds quite sweet.
>
>
>
> This is a safer MIDI circuit, you don?t want to fry a borrowed keyboard:
>
>
> https://arduino.stackexchange.com/questions/56279/how-do-i-properly-receive-midi-with-arduino-with-6n138
>
>
>
> If you don?t want to build an amplifier you can connect to an audio input
> like this:
>
> https://sensorium.github.io/Mozzi/learn/output/
>
>
>
> Al
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> *On Behalf Of *Lena
> Kolb
> *Sent:* 12 March 2020 22:00
> *To:* MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>
> *Cc:* synth-diy at synth-diy.org DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
>
>
>
> I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy
>
>
>
> MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> schrieb am Do., 12. M?rz 2020,
> 20:20:
>
> Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It might be
> more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
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From shedsynth at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 14:49:12 2020
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:49:12 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com> <CAGdk871u
 J2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00e501d5f93e$2df2e7c0$89d8b740$@gmail.com>

Hi Lena,

one of my first modules was a MIDI interface, and these were the two most useful links:

Amanda Ghassaei?s https://www.instructables.com/id/Send-and-Receive-MIDI-with-Arduino/

Larry McGovern?s https://github.com/elkayem/midi2cv

 

Sorry, I don?t know anything about MIDI control surfaces.

I find the MOD WHEEL control voltage useful to patch into whichever module might like it, but the rest of my synthesiser is all made of pots with real knobs on.

 

Al

 

 

From: Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> 
Sent: 13 March 2020 13:19
To: ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com>
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths

 

Yeah, i have a midi keyboard. But midi is quite a good idea. I may take a look at a midi controller with faders. Like a mixer controller. Do you have some links for that 

 

ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com <mailto:shedsynth at gmail.com> > schrieb am Fr., 13. M?rz 2020, 10:50:

Hi Lena,

this is brilliant: you?re getting every possible answer to your original question.

 

Do you have access to any sort of MIDI keyboard?

You might like to look at this:

https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-Arduino-sound-synthesizer-with-MIDI/

That could be a good intro to following a circuit, soldering, working with Arduino and generally bodging things together to make a noise.

In fact I was inspired this week by your original message to add MIDI input to a module I built two years ago, and the code from that instructable sounds quite sweet.

 

This is a safer MIDI circuit, you don?t want to fry a borrowed keyboard:

https://arduino.stackexchange.com/questions/56279/how-do-i-properly-receive-midi-with-arduino-with-6n138

 

If you don?t want to build an amplifier you can connect to an audio input like this:

https://sensorium.github.io/Mozzi/learn/output/

 

Al

 

 

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> > On Behalf Of Lena Kolb
Sent: 12 March 2020 22:00
To: MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com <mailto:grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> >
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>  DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> >
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths

 

I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy 

 

MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com <mailto:grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> > schrieb am Do., 12. M?rz 2020, 20:20:

Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It might be 
more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> 
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 15:03:59 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:03:59 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <660ae7c6-b08e-ab1e-b27b-dffafb05a8df@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGdk872pHnVS_TyX89RYZMgk6hmvwjrPvzEzPsjX6VkQDWyDxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e07fc2b-6c13-c3ab-f743-d96bce09cfa5@mnet-online.de>
 <CAJ5nAj6pGKRuB+2hSKa03bhhgumjFfW_4sFRE8iL3gErc+AE-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR8uwVuzyE3Wax3wxWeo6PtE4R0MnaQLSmX0p7f_QB0jRg@mail.gmail.com>

This may fill the bill for the control with faders

https://michigansynthworks.com/products/16n-faderbank-with-cv-midi-i2c-outputs

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 8:23 AM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, i have a midi keyboard. But midi is quite a good idea. I may take a
> look at a midi controller with faders. Like a mixer controller. Do you have
> some links for that
>
> ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com> schrieb am Fr., 13. M?rz 2020, 10:50:
>
>> Hi Lena,
>>
>> this is brilliant: you?re getting every possible answer to your original
>> question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you have access to any sort of MIDI keyboard?
>>
>> You might like to look at this:
>>
>>
>> https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-Arduino-sound-synthesizer-with-MIDI/
>>
>> That could be a good intro to following a circuit, soldering, working
>> with Arduino and generally bodging things together to make a noise.
>>
>> In fact I was inspired this week by your original message to add MIDI
>> input to a module I built two years ago, and the code from that
>> instructable sounds quite sweet.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a safer MIDI circuit, you don?t want to fry a borrowed keyboard:
>>
>>
>> https://arduino.stackexchange.com/questions/56279/how-do-i-properly-receive-midi-with-arduino-with-6n138
>>
>>
>>
>> If you don?t want to build an amplifier you can connect to an audio input
>> like this:
>>
>> https://sensorium.github.io/Mozzi/learn/output/
>>
>>
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> *On Behalf Of *Lena
>> Kolb
>> *Sent:* 12 March 2020 22:00
>> *To:* MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>
>> *Cc:* synth-diy at synth-diy.org DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy
>>
>>
>>
>> MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> schrieb am Do., 12. M?rz 2020,
>> 20:20:
>>
>> Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It might be
>> more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Fri Mar 13 19:01:05 2020
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 19:01:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80b1a05d-3bac-317f-f27e-1ae8dc3c6220@gmx.de>


Am 13.03.2020 um 14:19 schrieb Lena Kolb:
> Yeah, i have a midi keyboard. But midi is quite a good idea. I may
> take a look at a midi controller with faders. Like a mixer controller.
> Do you have some links for that

Well, any sort of requirements? Price range?
I remember the Behringer BC...something, they had some with rotary
encoders, and one with faders, but I believe they were motor faders and
hence not very many.
I can't find something like that anymore right now, all I see is "DAW
controllers" which are geared towards, well, controlling DAWs, and not
so cheap either (for a Behringer product - probably because of motor
faders, which are nice... but low in number):

Ok, floating around used. Not faders but rotary encoders:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Behringer-BCR2000-mit-Zaquencer/283808528500

There'd be enough space to put some printed out stickers for function
names under/above each encoder.


Depending on how much you are attached to your MIDI keyboard (in case of
swap, e.g. buy one, sell the old), or opposed to just getting another one:
There are a lot of MIDI keyboards with quite a number of faders and
encoders and / or pots.

https://www.thomann.de/intl/m_audio_oxygen_49_mk4.htm
https://www.thomann.de/intl/novation_launchkey_49_mk2_b_stock.htm
https://www.thomann.de/intl/roland_a_500_pro_b_stock.htm

Super cheap if it's really only about the knobs, which are probably not
great, but for experimenting...
(and the keys... eat space and are probably crap, but... since the
"lotsa knobs controller box"es I knew aren't a thing anymore apparently...)
https://www.thomann.de/intl/miditech_i2control_37_black.htm



>
> ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com <mailto:shedsynth at gmail.com>> schrieb
> am Fr., 13. M?rz 2020, 10:50:
>
>     Hi Lena,
>
>     this is brilliant: you?re getting every possible answer to your
>     original question.
>
>     Do you have access to any sort of MIDI keyboard?
>
>     You might like to look at this:
>
>     https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-Arduino-sound-synthesizer-with-MIDI/
>
>     That could be a good intro to following a circuit, soldering,
>     working with Arduino and generally bodging things together to make
>     a noise.
>
>     In fact I was inspired this week by your original message to add
>     MIDI input to a module I built two years ago, and the code from
>     that instructable sounds quite sweet.
>
>     This is a safer MIDI circuit, you don?t want to fry a borrowed
>     keyboard:
>
>     https://arduino.stackexchange.com/questions/56279/how-do-i-properly-receive-midi-with-arduino-with-6n138
>
>     If you don?t want to build an amplifier you can connect to an
>     audio input like this:
>
>     https://sensorium.github.io/Mozzi/learn/output/
>
>     Al
>
>     *From:*Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
>     <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>> *On Behalf Of *Lena Kolb
>     *Sent:* 12 March 2020 22:00
>     *To:* MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com
>     <mailto:grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>>
>     *Cc:* synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org> DIY
>     <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
>     *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
>
>     I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy
>
>     MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com
>     <mailto:grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>> schrieb am Do., 12.
>     M?rz 2020, 20:20:
>
>         Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It
>         might be
>         more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
>         _______________________________________________
>         Synth-diy mailing list
>         Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>         http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


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From lenakolb2204 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 23:43:02 2020
From: lenakolb2204 at gmail.com (Lena Kolb)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 23:43:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <80b1a05d-3bac-317f-f27e-1ae8dc3c6220@gmx.de>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <80b1a05d-3bac-317f-f27e-1ae8dc3c6220@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <CAGdk872KVV=CzGim_KhEEexnke7MTeV+1xNJ9UZVE5dUXG4JLw@mail.gmail.com>

I mean I already have a pretty good Keyboard, it's an Arturia Keylab
Essential 61 Key. Its has some faders and encoders. As I'm doing quite a
bit of mixing too, a midi controller with motor faders and some additional
control would come in quite handy. There's stuff like the Presonus
Faderport or the Icon Platform X, or if you want to go High End theres the
Avid Artist Mix. That's something i would want to build. Do you guys have
any Experience with this kind of stuff. And btw, my main DAWs are Cubase
and Pro Tools on Windows

<sleepy_dog at gmx.de> schrieb am Fr., 13. M?rz 2020, 19:03:

>
> Am 13.03.2020 um 14:19 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>
> Yeah, i have a midi keyboard. But midi is quite a good idea. I may take a
> look at a midi controller with faders. Like a mixer controller. Do you have
> some links for that
>
>
> Well, any sort of requirements? Price range?
> I remember the Behringer BC...something, they had some with rotary
> encoders, and one with faders, but I believe they were motor faders and
> hence not very many.
> I can't find something like that anymore right now, all I see is "DAW
> controllers" which are geared towards, well, controlling DAWs, and not so
> cheap either (for a Behringer product - probably because of motor faders,
> which are nice... but low in number):
>
> Ok, floating around used. Not faders but rotary encoders:
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/Behringer-BCR2000-mit-Zaquencer/283808528500
>
> There'd be enough space to put some printed out stickers for function
> names under/above each encoder.
>
>
> Depending on how much you are attached to your MIDI keyboard (in case of
> swap, e.g. buy one, sell the old), or opposed to just getting another one:
> There are a lot of MIDI keyboards with quite a number of faders and
> encoders and / or pots.
>
> https://www.thomann.de/intl/m_audio_oxygen_49_mk4.htm
> https://www.thomann.de/intl/novation_launchkey_49_mk2_b_stock.htm
> https://www.thomann.de/intl/roland_a_500_pro_b_stock.htm
>
> Super cheap if it's really only about the knobs, which are probably not
> great, but for experimenting...
> (and the keys... eat space and are probably crap, but... since the "lotsa
> knobs controller box"es I knew aren't a thing anymore apparently...)
> https://www.thomann.de/intl/miditech_i2control_37_black.htm
>
>
>
>
> ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com> schrieb am Fr., 13. M?rz 2020, 10:50:
>
>> Hi Lena,
>>
>> this is brilliant: you?re getting every possible answer to your original
>> question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you have access to any sort of MIDI keyboard?
>>
>> You might like to look at this:
>>
>>
>> https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-Arduino-sound-synthesizer-with-MIDI/
>>
>> That could be a good intro to following a circuit, soldering, working
>> with Arduino and generally bodging things together to make a noise.
>>
>> In fact I was inspired this week by your original message to add MIDI
>> input to a module I built two years ago, and the code from that
>> instructable sounds quite sweet.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a safer MIDI circuit, you don?t want to fry a borrowed keyboard:
>>
>>
>> https://arduino.stackexchange.com/questions/56279/how-do-i-properly-receive-midi-with-arduino-with-6n138
>>
>>
>>
>> If you don?t want to build an amplifier you can connect to an audio input
>> like this:
>>
>> https://sensorium.github.io/Mozzi/learn/output/
>>
>>
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> *On Behalf Of *Lena
>> Kolb
>> *Sent:* 12 March 2020 22:00
>> *To:* MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>
>> *Cc:* synth-diy at synth-diy.org DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy
>>
>>
>>
>> MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> schrieb am Do., 12. M?rz 2020,
>> 20:20:
>>
>> Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It might be
>> more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing listSynth-diy at synth-diy.orghttp://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From kmkennedy at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 00:03:34 2020
From: kmkennedy at gmail.com (Kylee Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:03:34 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk872KVV=CzGim_KhEEexnke7MTeV+1xNJ9UZVE5dUXG4JLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872r35m1qzppjRCyL_ZOt-mJ98D1bvj3X48d7pOOtsgGXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <80b1a05d-3bac-317f-f27e-1ae8dc3c6220@gmx.de>
 <CAGdk872KVV=CzGim_KhEEexnke7MTeV+1xNJ9UZVE5dUXG4JLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADD61nXw3wSdF1+3vppDfJJEYT3EzKi7oHqc5gHyRYS+4XDT+A@mail.gmail.com>

Building a flying fader control desk is completely different than Synth DIY.
Honestly you will not save any money and will lose a lot of time going that
direction. Those motorized faders are super expensive in small quantities.
You'll need to learn to interface them with an MCU...just not beginner
stuff.

I see tons of suggestions but what do you really need in your system? Have
you done any breadboarding?
Start with some full kits..hopefully with good descriptions of the design
AKA why they have opamps in one section and an OTA in another.
Make: Analog Synthesizers book and fellow list member Synth DIY guys
youtube is a perfect starting point.

Build an LFO, build a filter, build a few simple parts of a synth first.
Once you start grasping some of that you'll see ohh I need a (you fill in
the blank) next. Also this will not be a quick processes if you have lots
of free time you can learn CAD and design your own circuits but don't
expect that until your at least 1000 hrs into this hobby.

If you need a flying fader mixer for your DAW I can recommend an old Tascam
US2400 in Mackie HID mode off ebay or reverb or local craigslist. I bought
one for under $600 with rolling case. That copycat Bhringer company has an
affordable one also but I boycott them. More so since that terrible Kirn
diss video.

Cheers,
Kylee Kennedy




On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 3:49 PM Lena Kolb <lenakolb2204 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I mean I already have a pretty good Keyboard, it's an Arturia Keylab
> Essential 61 Key. Its has some faders and encoders. As I'm doing quite a
> bit of mixing too, a midi controller with motor faders and some additional
> control would come in quite handy. There's stuff like the Presonus
> Faderport or the Icon Platform X, or if you want to go High End theres the
> Avid Artist Mix. That's something i would want to build. Do you guys have
> any Experience with this kind of stuff. And btw, my main DAWs are Cubase
> and Pro Tools on Windows
>
> <sleepy_dog at gmx.de> schrieb am Fr., 13. M?rz 2020, 19:03:
>
>>
>> Am 13.03.2020 um 14:19 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>
>> Yeah, i have a midi keyboard. But midi is quite a good idea. I may take a
>> look at a midi controller with faders. Like a mixer controller. Do you have
>> some links for that
>>
>>
>> Well, any sort of requirements? Price range?
>> I remember the Behringer BC...something, they had some with rotary
>> encoders, and one with faders, but I believe they were motor faders and
>> hence not very many.
>> I can't find something like that anymore right now, all I see is "DAW
>> controllers" which are geared towards, well, controlling DAWs, and not so
>> cheap either (for a Behringer product - probably because of motor faders,
>> which are nice... but low in number):
>>
>> Ok, floating around used. Not faders but rotary encoders:
>> https://www.ebay.de/itm/Behringer-BCR2000-mit-Zaquencer/283808528500
>>
>> There'd be enough space to put some printed out stickers for function
>> names under/above each encoder.
>>
>>
>> Depending on how much you are attached to your MIDI keyboard (in case of
>> swap, e.g. buy one, sell the old), or opposed to just getting another one:
>> There are a lot of MIDI keyboards with quite a number of faders and
>> encoders and / or pots.
>>
>> https://www.thomann.de/intl/m_audio_oxygen_49_mk4.htm
>> https://www.thomann.de/intl/novation_launchkey_49_mk2_b_stock.htm
>> https://www.thomann.de/intl/roland_a_500_pro_b_stock.htm
>>
>> Super cheap if it's really only about the knobs, which are probably not
>> great, but for experimenting...
>> (and the keys... eat space and are probably crap, but... since the "lotsa
>> knobs controller box"es I knew aren't a thing anymore apparently...)
>> https://www.thomann.de/intl/miditech_i2control_37_black.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com> schrieb am Fr., 13. M?rz 2020, 10:50:
>>
>>> Hi Lena,
>>>
>>> this is brilliant: you?re getting every possible answer to your original
>>> question.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have access to any sort of MIDI keyboard?
>>>
>>> You might like to look at this:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-Arduino-sound-synthesizer-with-MIDI/
>>>
>>> That could be a good intro to following a circuit, soldering, working
>>> with Arduino and generally bodging things together to make a noise.
>>>
>>> In fact I was inspired this week by your original message to add MIDI
>>> input to a module I built two years ago, and the code from that
>>> instructable sounds quite sweet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a safer MIDI circuit, you don?t want to fry a borrowed keyboard:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://arduino.stackexchange.com/questions/56279/how-do-i-properly-receive-midi-with-arduino-with-6n138
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you don?t want to build an amplifier you can connect to an audio
>>> input like this:
>>>
>>> https://sensorium.github.io/Mozzi/learn/output/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Al
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> *On Behalf Of *Lena
>>> Kolb
>>> *Sent:* 12 March 2020 22:00
>>> *To:* MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>
>>> *Cc:* synth-diy at synth-diy.org DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> schrieb am Do., 12. M?rz 2020,
>>> 20:20:
>>>
>>> Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing that.  It might be
>>> more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing listSynth-diy at synth-diy.orghttp://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Sat Mar 14 00:49:02 2020
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 00:49:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CAGdk872KVV=CzGim_KhEEexnke7MTeV+1xNJ9UZVE5dUXG4JLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <80b1a05d-3bac-317f-f27e-1ae8dc3c6220@gmx.de>
 <CAGdk872KVV=CzGim_KhEEexnke7MTeV+1xNJ9UZVE5dUXG4JLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c154151b-d8d9-fff3-4373-18f8550d52e1@gmx.de>

Am 13.03.2020 um 23:43 schrieb Lena Kolb:
> I mean I already have a pretty good Keyboard, it's an Arturia Keylab
> Essential 61 Key. Its has some faders and encoders. As I'm doing quite
> a bit of mixing too, a midi controller
I wouldn't go that far, calling it that *bites tongue* (an Artirua
keylab I once tested had rather wobbly keys and a pungent smell, but I
know I care more than others about that, heh)
Not that the ones I listed earlier were better, other than the Roland
one, maybe.
Was some examples just in case.

> with motor faders and some additional control would come in quite
> handy. There's stuff like the Presonus Faderport or the Icon Platform
> X, or if you want to go High End

Or, lower end, Behringer still has you covered
https://www.thomann.de/intl/behringer_x_touch_compact.htm
https://www.thomann.de/intl/behringer_x_touch.htm

> theres the Avid Artist Mix. That's something i would want to build. Do
> you guys have any Experience with this kind of stuff. And btw, my main
> DAWs are Cubase and Pro Tools on Windows

As for DIYing a MIDI controller, there's this platform "MIDIbox NG" that
has a readily available open firmware, and you can put different
components together to your liking. Supports encoders, pots, apparently
LED rings, too.

I now read  Kylee Kennedy's message and would have to agree.
Even with a starting point like the MIDIbox stuff, this might be quite a
huge detour from your synth DIY stuff.


But anyway,

Here are some people's projects based on that - does *not* include
motorized faders
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=midibox+ng&t=ironbrowser&iax=videos&ia=videos

http://wiki.midibox.org/doku.php?id=midibox_ng

A forum, looks somewhat active
http://midibox.org/forums/forum/46-midibox-ng/

I've never tried any of that stuff.

It is not a coincidence that most people use reotary encoders on those
things, or rotary pots,
but not faders.
Drilling round holes into front panels is one thing. Getting slits in
there for faders another. I guess that's a job for a CNC router.
The mechanical part is perhaps the one part that makes this all more
expensive than just buying e.g. one of the Behringer things.

- Steve

>
> <sleepy_dog at gmx.de <mailto:sleepy_dog at gmx.de>> schrieb am Fr., 13.
> M?rz 2020, 19:03:
>
>
>     Am 13.03.2020 um 14:19 schrieb Lena Kolb:
>>     Yeah, i have a midi keyboard. But midi is quite a good idea. I
>>     may take a look at a midi controller with faders. Like a mixer
>>     controller. Do you have some links for that
>
>     Well, any sort of requirements? Price range?
>     I remember the Behringer BC...something, they had some with rotary
>     encoders, and one with faders, but I believe they were motor
>     faders and hence not very many.
>     I can't find something like that anymore right now, all I see is
>     "DAW controllers" which are geared towards, well, controlling
>     DAWs, and not so cheap either (for a Behringer product - probably
>     because of motor faders, which are nice... but low in number):
>
>     Ok, floating around used. Not faders but rotary encoders:
>     https://www.ebay.de/itm/Behringer-BCR2000-mit-Zaquencer/283808528500
>
>     There'd be enough space to put some printed out stickers for
>     function names under/above each encoder.
>
>
>     Depending on how much you are attached to your MIDI keyboard (in
>     case of swap, e.g. buy one, sell the old), or opposed to just
>     getting another one:
>     There are a lot of MIDI keyboards with quite a number of faders
>     and encoders and / or pots.
>
>     https://www.thomann.de/intl/m_audio_oxygen_49_mk4.htm
>     https://www.thomann.de/intl/novation_launchkey_49_mk2_b_stock.htm
>     https://www.thomann.de/intl/roland_a_500_pro_b_stock.htm
>
>     Super cheap if it's really only about the knobs, which are
>     probably not great, but for experimenting...
>     (and the keys... eat space and are probably crap, but... since the
>     "lotsa knobs controller box"es I knew aren't a thing anymore
>     apparently...)
>     https://www.thomann.de/intl/miditech_i2control_37_black.htm
>
>
>
>>
>>     ShedSynth <shedsynth at gmail.com <mailto:shedsynth at gmail.com>>
>>     schrieb am Fr., 13. M?rz 2020, 10:50:
>>
>>         Hi Lena,
>>
>>         this is brilliant: you?re getting every possible answer to
>>         your original question.
>>
>>         Do you have access to any sort of MIDI keyboard?
>>
>>         You might like to look at this:
>>
>>         https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-Arduino-sound-synthesizer-with-MIDI/
>>
>>         That could be a good intro to following a circuit, soldering,
>>         working with Arduino and generally bodging things together to
>>         make a noise.
>>
>>         In fact I was inspired this week by your original message to
>>         add MIDI input to a module I built two years ago, and the
>>         code from that instructable sounds quite sweet.
>>
>>         This is a safer MIDI circuit, you don?t want to fry a
>>         borrowed keyboard:
>>
>>         https://arduino.stackexchange.com/questions/56279/how-do-i-properly-receive-midi-with-arduino-with-6n138
>>
>>         If you don?t want to build an amplifier you can connect to an
>>         audio input like this:
>>
>>         https://sensorium.github.io/Mozzi/learn/output/
>>
>>         Al
>>
>>         *From:*Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
>>         <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>> *On Behalf Of *Lena
>>         Kolb
>>         *Sent:* 12 March 2020 22:00
>>         *To:* MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com
>>         <mailto:grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>>
>>         *Cc:* synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>         <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org> DIY <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>         <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
>>
>>         I'm open to anything. But a complete synth would be pretty sexy
>>
>>         MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com
>>         <mailto:grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>> schrieb am Do.,
>>         12. M?rz 2020, 20:20:
>>
>>             Did the OP mention modular?  I don't remember seeing
>>             that.  It might be
>>             more gratifying to start out with a simple "complete" synth.
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             Synth-diy mailing list
>>             Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>             http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Synth-diy mailing list
>>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Synth-diy mailing list
>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>

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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 02:36:52 2020
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 20:36:52 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <c154151b-d8d9-fff3-4373-18f8550d52e1@gmx.de>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <80b1a05d-3bac-317f-f27e-1ae8dc3c6220@gmx.de>
 <CAGdk872KVV=CzGim_KhEEexnke7MTeV+1xNJ9UZVE5dUXG4JLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <c154151b-d8d9-fff3-4373-18f8550d52e1@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <CACodTR-Sb-VTqVS5XAx=z4+BqoPuc01LSojMOQ9tqCZ7VZNKqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 6:53 PM <sleepy_dog at gmx.de> wrote:

> As for DIYing a MIDI controller, there's this platform "MIDIbox NG" that
> has a readily available open firmware, and you can put different components
> together to your liking. Supports encoders, pots, apparently LED rings, too.
>

It's been a few years since I looked at MIDIBox, and I know I have friends
who really think the world of that project, but when I looked at it it was
a fair ways away from anything like a "beginner" project.  And back then
the community seemed to expect you to have read every single thing
about the project and understood it and tried it before asking questions.
Maybe that's all changed, but it wouldn't be my first direction to point
unless someone said they had some experience and wanted to gain a level
working on a project.

And of course that's aside from the mechanical challenges etc.

I really think the N16 project fits the bill pretty nicely, it's a
relatively easy build, uses a Teensy, and generates both CV and MIDI for 16
sliders.

Pete
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From lenakolb2204 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 09:50:22 2020
From: lenakolb2204 at gmail.com (Lena Kolb)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 09:50:22 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Getting Started with DIY Synths
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR-Sb-VTqVS5XAx=z4+BqoPuc01LSojMOQ9tqCZ7VZNKqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGdk873W1UkroKbHwg6r-FP2r7QtZYVkwwhs_q58_15T1M50Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR96Qa8ooWrq6mdOdADsQ1oSZKDE5msz1cmALk0EARfBTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGdk8702tm3q8tM0xBC8JQ4TNuT4Jkk0ZtrqA6Qgvnj=o4kM=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vjXBzhR3WektBQAUJJjcc1krucXQ_CRe6BZi1fQvam_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B7C2699-92FD-4C17-8B38-9EAD9A049741@electricdruid.net>
 <CAJ5nAj65u_TV9sTZHTA6FSmnk14nm7JYz06WeuUDKeGQp4HxDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj4XrcMiMjLqw=ENaf3KogeNQnd1+RB6eUrPF5+ZiiD5sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ5nAj48=pKRicohskvjh0gtDXiJoS5m889KM_bwAFQ3Wzpg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+9Xv9vbD76ye-dJafX1-2T_8rvo-TT23wyYNTc+TWV=CSSWkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ca56a0d4-eec5-23c1-24c6-748b5bdbb2b9@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <CAGdk871uJ2Q=nCPtGxD0SuXpnN3V48qYXoCLQruLJi4ODpaJjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <012e01d5f91c$dcaaf6d0$9600e470$@gmail.com>
 <CAGdk872kWgVQ3JCS13ZB8oMN8AfuxT9W_JQq9WNqF1duRwXRVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <80b1a05d-3bac-317f-f27e-1ae8dc3c6220@gmx.de>
 <CAGdk872KVV=CzGim_KhEEexnke7MTeV+1xNJ9UZVE5dUXG4JLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <c154151b-d8d9-fff3-4373-18f8550d52e1@gmx.de>
 <CACodTR-Sb-VTqVS5XAx=z4+BqoPuc01LSojMOQ9tqCZ7VZNKqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGdk8718wk5sOawD8LRprLN3BE68_gB-FTOv8ULCaukqceomog@mail.gmail.com>

Would a Midi Interface be easy enough?

Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 14. M?rz 2020, 02:38:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 6:53 PM <sleepy_dog at gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> As for DIYing a MIDI controller, there's this platform "MIDIbox NG" that
>> has a readily available open firmware, and you can put different components
>> together to your liking. Supports encoders, pots, apparently LED rings, too.
>>
>
> It's been a few years since I looked at MIDIBox, and I know I have friends
> who really think the world of that project, but when I looked at it it was
> a fair ways away from anything like a "beginner" project.  And back then
> the community seemed to expect you to have read every single thing
> about the project and understood it and tried it before asking questions.
> Maybe that's all changed, but it wouldn't be my first direction to point
> unless someone said they had some experience and wanted to gain a level
> working on a project.
>
> And of course that's aside from the mechanical challenges etc.
>
> I really think the N16 project fits the bill pretty nicely, it's a
> relatively easy build, uses a Teensy, and generates both CV and MIDI for 16
> sliders.
>
> Pete
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From colindorward at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 13:26:02 2020
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 08:26:02 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <20200314125156.GB20235@gjcp.net>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
 <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <451C7B87CECD442DA0B901A72DE74857@david78c70950b>
 <20200314125156.GB20235@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy6R7LYJu5nKw6KJYBjB4KUjADaPU0offchU0DhbY_5Dhw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks everyone!
Has anyone seen this implemented in a digital FX unit?
Here <https://www.fullbucket.de/music/freqshifter.html>is a vst I'm looking
forward to trying out.
Richie, I agree, the terminology confused me. I might have preferred to
call it a frequenc*ies* shifter. Well, that's +1 for skipping english and
going straight to the maths. Yesterday I started trying to re-learn my
highschool pre-calc, so Dave's original explanation, which I see now tells
the entire story, is starting to look a little more penetrable.
-Colin

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 8:55 AM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 09:58:36PM -0700, David G Dixon wrote:
> > Also, the phase displacement network is not protected material.  It is
> well known.  That?s why there is a nice piece of software on the web for
> designing them (QuadNet from Tonne Software: www.tonnesoftware.com <
> http://www.tonnesoftware.com/>  ).  Also, there is a very good writeup of
> the whole Bode frequency shifter concept in Electronotes, although I?m not
> sure if it?s in the ?public-domain? part of Electronotes or the part you
> have to buy from Bernie.  I had a complete collection of Electronotes for a
> while, and read all about it.  I chose not to use most of the suggested
> circuitry, but the concepts and ideas were all there.
> >
>
> If you want to see how to use a dome filter and some ring modulators to
> make a frquency shifter, any 1970s-1980s RSGB handbook will give you a fine
> set of circuit diagrams for a phasing-type SSB exciter.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


-- 
https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
-
<https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
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From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sat Mar 14 13:51:56 2020
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 12:51:56 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <451C7B87CECD442DA0B901A72DE74857@david78c70950b>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
 <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <451C7B87CECD442DA0B901A72DE74857@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <20200314125156.GB20235@gjcp.net>

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 09:58:36PM -0700, David G Dixon wrote:
> Also, the phase displacement network is not protected material.  It is well known.  That?s why there is a nice piece of software on the web for designing them (QuadNet from Tonne Software: www.tonnesoftware.com <http://www.tonnesoftware.com/>  ).  Also, there is a very good writeup of the whole Bode frequency shifter concept in Electronotes, although I?m not sure if it?s in the ?public-domain? part of Electronotes or the part you have to buy from Bernie.  I had a complete collection of Electronotes for a while, and read all about it.  I chose not to use most of the suggested circuitry, but the concepts and ideas were all there. 
> 

If you want to see how to use a dome filter and some ring modulators to make a frquency shifter, any 1970s-1980s RSGB handbook will give you a fine set of circuit diagrams for a phasing-type SSB exciter.

-- 
Gordonjcp



From colindorward at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 16:28:07 2020
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 11:28:07 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <w10a45vyujty1tnfscghxqx8.1584208804101@email.android.com>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
 <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <451C7B87CECD442DA0B901A72DE74857@david78c70950b>
 <20200314125156.GB20235@gjcp.net>
 <CAGV3gy6R7LYJu5nKw6KJYBjB4KUjADaPU0offchU0DhbY_5Dhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <b1317c5b-ddaa-6504-4749-31ef2f56982c@gmail.com>
 <w10a45vyujty1tnfscghxqx8.1584208804101@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy6AbbRZOvCCy5nwTJVtv+z=CmgQae4C30w96gK7YP1UDg@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I was wondering about digital HW version because the job seemed well
suited to that domain.
If I was more digitally inclined, I might try to set one up on that new
Daisy board, or an Axoloti.
C


On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 2:03 PM Richie Burnett <rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk>
wrote:

> If you want good performance, the tolerances on the phase shift networks
> are quite stringent. So it's actually easier to make a decent frequency
> shifter using digital filters than it is using analogue filters. With IIR
> digital filters you can get the poles exactly where you want them and they
> won't drift with age or changes in ambient temperature.
>
> Functions like multiplication are also usually mathematically perfect to
> the precision of the ALU when preformed digitally, but are often an
> approximation with unwanted distortion, noise and feed-through when
> implemented with analogue electronics.
>
> Likewise, even simple addition and subtraction of signals are limited by
> the tolerance of resistors in analogue mixing circuits, or have to be
> manually trimmed. In the digital domain, if you add together two numbers
> you get a precisely even weight of the two values, without any tolerance,
> trimming or temperature drift issues.
>
> -Richie,
>
> Sent from my Xperia SP on O2
>
> ---- Eric Brombaugh wrote ----
>
> >On 3/14/20 5:26 AM, ColinMuirDorward wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone seen this implemented in a digital FX unit?
> >> Here <https://www.fullbucket.de/music/freqshifter.html>is a vst I'm
> >> looking forward to trying out.
> >
> >There are lots of digital implementations of frequency shifters out
> >there - the quadrature oscillator / multiplier is a fundamental
> >operation of most digital radios and the dome filter (aka Hilbert
> >Transform, aka analytic signal converter) is straightforward to
> >construct with allpass networks.
> >
> >There are a few sites out there that discuss this. I think the oldest
> >one I know of is from C Sound:
> >
> >http://csoundjournal.com/ezine/summer2000/processing/index.html
> >
> >Olli Niemitallo gave a good backgrounder on construction of a Hilbert
> >Transform filter:
> >
> >http://yehar.com/blog/?p=368
> >
> >I've implemented the Hilbert approach in several synth modules:
> >
> >http://www.modcan.com/emodules/dualfreqshifter.html
> >
> >https://synthtech.com/eurorack/E560/
> >
> >The algorithm is simple enough to run in a low-end ARM processor.
> >
> >Eric
> >_______________________________________________
> >Synth-diy mailing list
> >Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


-- 
https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
-
<https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
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From ebrombaugh at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 18:09:32 2020
From: ebrombaugh at gmail.com (Eric Brombaugh)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 10:09:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy6R7LYJu5nKw6KJYBjB4KUjADaPU0offchU0DhbY_5Dhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
 <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <451C7B87CECD442DA0B901A72DE74857@david78c70950b>
 <20200314125156.GB20235@gjcp.net>
 <CAGV3gy6R7LYJu5nKw6KJYBjB4KUjADaPU0offchU0DhbY_5Dhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b1317c5b-ddaa-6504-4749-31ef2f56982c@gmail.com>

On 3/14/20 5:26 AM, ColinMuirDorward wrote:

> Has anyone seen this implemented in a digital FX unit?
> Here <https://www.fullbucket.de/music/freqshifter.html>is a vst I'm 
> looking forward to trying out.

There are lots of digital implementations of frequency shifters out 
there - the quadrature oscillator / multiplier is a fundamental 
operation of most digital radios and the dome filter (aka Hilbert 
Transform, aka analytic signal converter) is straightforward to 
construct with allpass networks.

There are a few sites out there that discuss this. I think the oldest 
one I know of is from C Sound:

http://csoundjournal.com/ezine/summer2000/processing/index.html

Olli Niemitallo gave a good backgrounder on construction of a Hilbert 
Transform filter:

http://yehar.com/blog/?p=368

I've implemented the Hilbert approach in several synth modules:

http://www.modcan.com/emodules/dualfreqshifter.html

https://synthtech.com/eurorack/E560/

The algorithm is simple enough to run in a low-end ARM processor.

Eric


From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Sat Mar 14 19:00:04 2020
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 18:00:04 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <b1317c5b-ddaa-6504-4749-31ef2f56982c@gmail.com>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
 <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <451C7B87CECD442DA0B901A72DE74857@david78c70950b>
 <20200314125156.GB20235@gjcp.net>
 <CAGV3gy6R7LYJu5nKw6KJYBjB4KUjADaPU0offchU0DhbY_5Dhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <b1317c5b-ddaa-6504-4749-31ef2f56982c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <w10a45vyujty1tnfscghxqx8.1584208804101@email.android.com>

If you want good performance, the tolerances on the phase shift networks are quite stringent. So it's actually easier to make a decent frequency shifter using digital filters than it is using analogue filters. With IIR digital filters you can get the poles exactly where you want them and they won't drift with age or changes in ambient temperature.

Functions like multiplication are also usually mathematically perfect to the precision of the ALU when preformed digitally, but are often an approximation with unwanted distortion, noise and feed-through when implemented with analogue electronics.

Likewise, even simple addition and subtraction of signals are limited by the tolerance of resistors in analogue mixing circuits, or have to be manually trimmed. In the digital domain, if you add together two numbers you get a precisely even weight of the two values, without any tolerance, trimming or temperature drift issues. 

-Richie, 

Sent from my Xperia SP on O2

---- Eric Brombaugh wrote ----

>On 3/14/20 5:26 AM, ColinMuirDorward wrote:
>
>> Has anyone seen this implemented in a digital FX unit?
>> Here <https://www.fullbucket.de/music/freqshifter.html>is a vst I'm 
>> looking forward to trying out.
>
>There are lots of digital implementations of frequency shifters out 
>there - the quadrature oscillator / multiplier is a fundamental 
>operation of most digital radios and the dome filter (aka Hilbert 
>Transform, aka analytic signal converter) is straightforward to 
>construct with allpass networks.
>
>There are a few sites out there that discuss this. I think the oldest 
>one I know of is from C Sound:
>
>http://csoundjournal.com/ezine/summer2000/processing/index.html
>
>Olli Niemitallo gave a good backgrounder on construction of a Hilbert 
>Transform filter:
>
>http://yehar.com/blog/?p=368
>
>I've implemented the Hilbert approach in several synth modules:
>
>http://www.modcan.com/emodules/dualfreqshifter.html
>
>https://synthtech.com/eurorack/E560/
>
>The algorithm is simple enough to run in a low-end ARM processor.
>
>Eric
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From johnspeth at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 14 19:26:25 2020
From: johnspeth at yahoo.com (John Speth)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 11:26:25 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] FS: Numerous DIP analog and digital chips
References: <2240a452-2bbc-dfd7-69f4-7ec62d05c894.ref@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2240a452-2bbc-dfd7-69f4-7ec62d05c894@yahoo.com>

I'd like to see if somebody would like to buy my collection of DIP ICs. 
I used to work for a test and measurement electronics company. These 
chips were our accumulation of vendor samples and production stock for 
product design. Date codes are as early as 1988. I estimate 1000 parts, 
half of them analog. If anyone is interested in buying my collection, 
please contact me personally. If anyone needs more specific info, please 
reply publicly and I can take and post hi-res pics. None are tested nor 
were any powered up (probably). It's in Portland, OR.

Here's what I have inventoried on a per foam pad basis:

1. Analog - mostly op-amps (for example LF355, OP177, OP291, CA3140, 
UA741, and many many others) - This is the gold mine foam pad.

2. Digital - 74HCTxxx and CD40xx series

3. Analog switches, ADC, DAC

4. Digital - 74HCxxx series

5. Digital - 74LSxxx series

6. Digital - medium scale chips, probably not much use today (GAL, PAL, 
8051, GPIB, memory, RS232 voltage converters, etc)

7. ADC, DAC, a few H11L1 opto couplers

Thanks - John Speth




From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Sat Mar 14 21:02:05 2020
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 13:02:05 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] frequency shifter
In-Reply-To: <w10a45vyujty1tnfscghxqx8.1584208804101@email.android.com>
References: <bcdfac4e-4d67-96fa-edce-0ced5f753334@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <3D62BD01-A616-4DE3-845F-B0CDD8D70D9A@gmail.com>
 <CAGV3gy5HVULAW7xeSjdnZtteA2EhQ+iHpy3iHE==p1-P38XEaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <94da4135-f77e-2364-987d-de9f965d4fed@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <4F456E80559B4CB59D7BA0066F3E5873@david78c70950b>
 <CAGV3gy6Y815bdn991N+4=j75E5-hu5KvvCkFtRwd9x2VndgM1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <451C7B87CECD442DA0B901A72DE74857@david78c70950b>
 <20200314125156.GB20235@gjcp.net>
 <CAGV3gy6R7LYJu5nKw6KJYBjB4KUjADaPU0offchU0DhbY_5Dhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <b1317c5b-ddaa-6504-4749-31ef2f56982c@gmail.com>
 <w10a45vyujty1tnfscghxqx8.1584208804101@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <86F633EE4FC147579F4E2C5C51A9DB42@david78c70950b>

Yeah, but digital is no fun, so there's that to consider.



-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Richie
Burnett
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 11:00 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] frequency shifter

If you want good performance, the tolerances on the phase shift networks are
quite stringent. So it's actually easier to make a decent frequency shifter
using digital filters than it is using analogue filters. With IIR digital
filters you can get the poles exactly where you want them and they won't
drift with age or changes in ambient temperature.

Functions like multiplication are also usually mathematically perfect to the
precision of the ALU when preformed digitally, but are often an
approximation with unwanted distortion, noise and feed-through when
implemented with analogue electronics.

Likewise, even simple addition and subtraction of signals are limited by the
tolerance of resistors in analogue mixing circuits, or have to be manually
trimmed. In the digital domain, if you add together two numbers you get a
precisely even weight of the two values, without any tolerance, trimming or
temperature drift issues. 

-Richie, 

Sent from my Xperia SP on O2

---- Eric Brombaugh wrote ----

>On 3/14/20 5:26 AM, ColinMuirDorward wrote:
>
>> Has anyone seen this implemented in a digital FX unit?
>> Here <https://www.fullbucket.de/music/freqshifter.html>is a vst I'm 
>> looking forward to trying out.
>
>There are lots of digital implementations of frequency shifters out 
>there - the quadrature oscillator / multiplier is a fundamental 
>operation of most digital radios and the dome filter (aka Hilbert 
>Transform, aka analytic signal converter) is straightforward to 
>construct with allpass networks.
>
>There are a few sites out there that discuss this. I think the oldest 
>one I know of is from C Sound:
>
>http://csoundjournal.com/ezine/summer2000/processing/index.html
>
>Olli Niemitallo gave a good backgrounder on construction of a Hilbert 
>Transform filter:
>
>http://yehar.com/blog/?p=368
>
>I've implemented the Hilbert approach in several synth modules:
>
>http://www.modcan.com/emodules/dualfreqshifter.html
>
>https://synthtech.com/eurorack/E560/
>
>The algorithm is simple enough to run in a low-end ARM processor.
>
>Eric
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From colindorward at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 22:57:48 2020
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 17:57:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Just for David
In-Reply-To: <CAFBTNJfZTdz9SkDfr6YBhNaoAy8M7=2VHgEcpsbo9euTyWGcZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFBTNJfZTdz9SkDfr6YBhNaoAy8M7=2VHgEcpsbo9euTyWGcZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy6jzka0Ha2EfyzUctKRea-AQcuyRXUQL_d1q1Q2BnxiuA@mail.gmail.com>

wow, perfect timing, I was just starting to re-learn this stuff.
Thanks!

-David
no...I mean
-Colin

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 6:45 PM John P Shea <info at extrinia.com> wrote:

>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614775/a-new-way-to-make-quadratic-equations-easy/
>
> Regards,
> JPS
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


-- 
https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
-
<https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
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From info at extrinia.com  Sat Mar 14 23:41:48 2020
From: info at extrinia.com (John P Shea)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 08:41:48 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Just for David
Message-ID: <CAFBTNJfZTdz9SkDfr6YBhNaoAy8M7=2VHgEcpsbo9euTyWGcZw@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614775/a-new-way-to-make-quadratic-equations-easy/

Regards,
JPS
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From rdawson16 at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 15 03:43:00 2020
From: rdawson16 at hotmail.com (Randy Dawson)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 02:43:00 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] The chip collection
Message-ID: <BYAPR06MB4359759DF57BE25095AE4FCABAF80@BYAPR06MB4359.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi John, would you take $50 for the lot?

Randy
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From frey at radioles.com  Sun Mar 15 04:45:23 2020
From: frey at radioles.com (frey at radioles.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 23:45:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Casio CZ-1000 will not power off.
References: <8e2957b5-30e9-4f27-844f-5140b03fca62@Spark>
Message-ID: <f3da1c5f-55d1-4f88-bb1e-66dab9e61823@Spark>

Hello all, the saga continues. I replaced a relay for the audio signal and my synth sounds good and clear again. But, evidently I have damaged something. When I try and turn off the unit the audio shuts off but the display and controls stay on and activated. Once I unplug the unit?s power supply from the outlet the synth stops. When I plug it back in it is off until I press the on button and then the synth works normally. Then again, when I press the off button. The sound stops but the lights and display and controls remain active.
?I understand that the power/amp board sends a power off signal to the cpu board through a ribbon cable. I have checked the pins on the cable for continuity and all points have passed.
?I am wondering if perhaps one of the components that send the cpu off signal have failed.
?I am a little inexperienced at troubleshooting and am wondering if I should just start changing electrolytic caps in the circuit?
?Anyone have any experience that can advise? Thanks. JoeF.
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From rsdio at audiobanshee.com  Sun Mar 15 08:04:30 2020
From: rsdio at audiobanshee.com (rsdio at audiobanshee.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 00:04:30 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Casio CZ-1000 will not power off.
In-Reply-To: <f3da1c5f-55d1-4f88-bb1e-66dab9e61823@Spark>
References: <8e2957b5-30e9-4f27-844f-5140b03fca62@Spark>
 <f3da1c5f-55d1-4f88-bb1e-66dab9e61823@Spark>
Message-ID: <ABBCD22E-A4C9-40BB-B0D8-9008DD62B3B5@audiobanshee.com>


On Mar 14, 2020, at 8:45 PM, frey at radioles.com wrote:
> Hello all, the saga continues. I replaced a relay for the audio signal and my synth sounds good and clear again. But, evidently I have damaged something. When I try and turn off the unit the audio shuts off but the display and controls stay on and activated. Once I unplug the unit?s power supply from the outlet the synth stops. When I plug it back in it is off until I press the on button and then the synth works normally. Then again, when I press the off button. The sound stops but the lights and display and controls remain active.
>  I understand that the power/amp board sends a power off signal to the cpu board through a ribbon cable. I have checked the pins on the cable for continuity and all points have passed. 
>  I am wondering if perhaps one of the components that send the cpu off signal have failed.
>  I am a little inexperienced at troubleshooting and am wondering if I should just start changing electrolytic caps in the circuit?
>  Anyone have any experience that can advise? Thanks. JoeF.

Hey Joe,

Never change electrolytic caps when you don?t know what?s wrong - new ones don?t fix mysterious errors.
Never change anything new when you don?t know what?s wrong - first find out how you made things worse.
Never change electrolytic caps.

Seems likely that you could have shorted something - maybe you left a blob of solder rolling around in there when you changed the ?relay"

Your best bet is to look very, very carefully at the work you did, and see what you might have changed. You?ll also have to look around in areas where you didn?t do any work to look for small wires, pieces of metal, or maybe a screw that cut through a wire, or something you didn?t put back exactly like you found it. You might even need a magnifying lens to find something that?s barely visible.

One of the first rules of troubleshooting is that once you?re out on a limb, have made a few ?repairs? on a unit, and suddenly new problems appear, you absolutely certainly do not want to go ?repairing? more of that unit until you figure out what you did.

Hindsight is 20/20, but these days everybody has a camera. I recommend taking pictures before you start, so you know where to get back to.

Funny thing is that I?ve been doing this since the days of film cameras, so I never really made a habit of taking photos. I recently started working on a Korg PolySix, and the owner was there to ?learn the trade? so to speak. He pulled out his cell phone and started taking photos before I started the repairs. D?oh! I can?t believe I hadn?t thought of that before. Then again, I?m detail-oriented, and I never miss putting things back together because I?ve designed enough electronic circuits that it makes sense. But when you?re just starting out, you really have to be careful.

It?s probably worth studying the schematics and at least learning about how the power supply works, and how it?s distributed throughout the boards. Tall order, I realize, but it?s really hard to fly blind ? and dangerous.

Brian




From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Mon Mar 16 00:15:28 2020
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 16:15:28 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Just for David
In-Reply-To: <CAFBTNJfZTdz9SkDfr6YBhNaoAy8M7=2VHgEcpsbo9euTyWGcZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFBTNJfZTdz9SkDfr6YBhNaoAy8M7=2VHgEcpsbo9euTyWGcZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9EBBF4E8F45E4E41AF0F2D5B9EFD2A39@david78c70950b>

Hi John,

 

Yep, that's the quadratic formula that I use almost every day of my life.
What's "new" about it?

 

Cheers,

Dave

 

  _____  

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of John P
Shea
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 3:42 PM
To: SYNTH DIY
Subject: [sdiy] Just for David

 

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614775/a-new-way-to-make-quadratic-equati
ons-easy/

 

Regards,

JPS

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From jamoore84 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 00:29:46 2020
From: jamoore84 at gmail.com (Jimmy Moore)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 17:29:46 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Just for David
In-Reply-To: <9EBBF4E8F45E4E41AF0F2D5B9EFD2A39@david78c70950b>
References: <CAFBTNJfZTdz9SkDfr6YBhNaoAy8M7=2VHgEcpsbo9euTyWGcZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9EBBF4E8F45E4E41AF0F2D5B9EFD2A39@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CA+9Xv9vCZNwTTO=Jtz7tL1JCgbX3X73QFFCcutDs-ceUNGV66w@mail.gmail.com>

The derivation and its application.  It's a lot more intuitive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBalWWHYFQc

(pardon the awful soundtrack)

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 5:20 PM David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
>
>
> Yep, that?s the quadratic formula that I use almost every day of my life.
> What?s ?new? about it?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] *On Behalf Of *John
> P Shea
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2020 3:42 PM
> *To:* SYNTH DIY
> *Subject:* [sdiy] Just for David
>
>
>
>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614775/a-new-way-to-make-quadratic-equations-easy/
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> JPS
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From ijfritz at comcast.net  Mon Mar 16 01:33:02 2020
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 18:33:02 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] quadratic equation
In-Reply-To: <CA+9Xv9vCZNwTTO=Jtz7tL1JCgbX3X73QFFCcutDs-ceUNGV66w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFBTNJfZTdz9SkDfr6YBhNaoAy8M7=2VHgEcpsbo9euTyWGcZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9EBBF4E8F45E4E41AF0F2D5B9EFD2A39@david78c70950b>
 <CA+9Xv9vCZNwTTO=Jtz7tL1JCgbX3X73QFFCcutDs-ceUNGV66w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <830c4e29-62ea-5974-df9c-cb7a7f9eae1f@comcast.net>

Interesting and clever, but I think too abstract for most folks to 
follow. I'll stick with the standard method -- the equation is pretty 
well embedded by now.

Ian



On 3/15/2020 5:29 PM, Jimmy Moore wrote:
> The derivation and its application.? It's a lot more intuitive.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBalWWHYFQc
> 
> (pardon the awful soundtrack)
> 
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 5:20 PM David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca 
> <mailto:dixon at mail.ubc.ca>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi John,____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Yep, that?s the quadratic formula that I use almost every day of my
>     life.? What?s ?new? about it?____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Cheers,____
> 
>     Dave____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>     *From:*Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
>     <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>] *On Behalf Of *John P Shea
>     *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2020 3:42 PM
>     *To:* SYNTH DIY
>     *Subject:* [sdiy] Just for David____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614775/a-new-way-to-make-quadratic-equations-easy/____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Regards,____
> 
>     JPS____
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Synth-diy mailing list
>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 

-- 
ijfritz.byethost4.com


From benalog1977 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 18:21:14 2020
From: benalog1977 at gmail.com (Ben Riggs)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2020 00:21:14 +0700
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
Message-ID: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>

Hi all,

I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.

To start, I played with 2 cross-coupled input stock-standard differential op-amp circuits, then adding the ?Superbal? feedback to both inverting and non-inverting, then I ended up playing with the MCI cross coupled output driver to reduce parts-count (drv135). With the MCI circuit, all reference to the output resistor of the MCI in my research was about output impedance (being quasi-floating was for short circuit current when one input was tied to 0V), I recall in other reading years ago it was also to reduce the cross coupled gain below 1 for stability, but then in another ESP article Elliot compensated for the loss in gain?? I?m not interested in the quasi-floating aspect and won?t be tying either output to 0V so I dropped that output resistor. Then I realised that the cross couple non-inverting resistor divider is (basically) in parallel with the inverting Rin/Rf on the visavi cross coupled op-amp so I reduced them and ended up with 2 basic inverting amplifiers with the op-amp inputs cross tied directly. A resistor tied from each output to ground to keep the output symmetrical, 2 op-amps and 6 resistors.

I hope that description makes sense.

The sim has 1V differential in = 1V differential out, 1V single ended in (one input tied to 0V) has symmetrical .5V on the non-inverted and -.5V on the inverted. This is exactly what I need!

It just seems wrong, and I?ve tried deliberately unbalancing the whole circuit in the sim, interchanging mix-matching op-amps and deliberately mismatching resistors but I think the SIM is failing me.

Is this actually a ?stable? circuit, or is the simulator just telling me what I want to see? Surely life isn?t that simple..

Regards,
Ben.







From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 19:13:40 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 18:13:40 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
In-Reply-To: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
References: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxKt+owGTQmQHDK6H+ROed2-hn5Y3dJNiRAu25FXPAE4Sg@mail.gmail.com>

Too many words, need picture :)

Cheers
Neil

On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 at 17:23, Ben Riggs <benalog1977 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger
> synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up
> with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.
>
> To start, I played with 2 cross-coupled input stock-standard differential
> op-amp circuits, then adding the ?Superbal? feedback to both inverting and
> non-inverting, then I ended up playing with the MCI cross coupled output
> driver to reduce parts-count (drv135). With the MCI circuit, all reference
> to the output resistor of the MCI in my research was about output impedance
> (being quasi-floating was for short circuit current when one input was tied
> to 0V), I recall in other reading years ago it was also to reduce the cross
> coupled gain below 1 for stability, but then in another ESP article Elliot
> compensated for the loss in gain?? I?m not interested in the quasi-floating
> aspect and won?t be tying either output to 0V so I dropped that output
> resistor. Then I realised that the cross couple non-inverting resistor
> divider is (basically) in parallel with the inverting Rin/Rf on the visavi
> cross coupled op-amp so I reduced them and ended up with 2 basic inverting
> amplifiers with the op-amp inputs cross tied directly. A resistor tied from
> each output to ground to keep the output symmetrical, 2 op-amps and 6
> resistors.
>
> I hope that description makes sense.
>
> The sim has 1V differential in = 1V differential out, 1V single ended in
> (one input tied to 0V) has symmetrical .5V on the non-inverted and -.5V on
> the inverted. This is exactly what I need!
>
> It just seems wrong, and I?ve tried deliberately unbalancing the whole
> circuit in the sim, interchanging mix-matching op-amps and deliberately
> mismatching resistors but I think the SIM is failing me.
>
> Is this actually a ?stable? circuit, or is the simulator just telling me
> what I want to see? Surely life isn?t that simple..
>
> Regards,
> Ben.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 19:46:13 2020
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 18:46:13 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
In-Reply-To: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
References: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <831686469B5C4F0C9203D56FD59AE305@RICHIEPC>

If you're after a buffer with balanced inputs and balanced outputs, then 
take a look at the input stage part (balanced part) of a conventional three 
op-amp "instrumentation amplifier" arrangement.  In other words the bits 
that surrounds the two op-amps on the left of this schematic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentation_amplifier#/media/File:Op-Amp_Instrumentation_Amplifier.svg

You don't need the op-amp on the right and it's accompanying four resistors 
that make up the differential amplifier unless you want to convert the 
balanced output to single-ended.

This arrangement of two op-amps, two feedback resistors and one gain setting 
resistor tied between the inverting inputs has the following properties:

1. Balanced input and output.
2. High input impedance (good for buffer)
3. Low output impedance (good for a buffer)
4. Gain is adjustable by varying a single resistor.
5. Good stability.

Hope this helps,

-Richie,


-----Original Message----- 
From: Ben Riggs
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 5:21 PM
To: SDIY List
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver

Hi all,

I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger 
synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up 
with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.

To start, I played with 2 cross-coupled input stock-standard differential 
op-amp circuits, then adding the ?Superbal? feedback to both inverting and 
non-inverting, then I ended up playing with the MCI cross coupled output 
driver to reduce parts-count (drv135). With the MCI circuit, all reference 
to the output resistor of the MCI in my research was about output impedance 
(being quasi-floating was for short circuit current when one input was tied 
to 0V), I recall in other reading years ago it was also to reduce the cross 
coupled gain below 1 for stability, but then in another ESP article Elliot 
compensated for the loss in gain?? I?m not interested in the quasi-floating 
aspect and won?t be tying either output to 0V so I dropped that output 
resistor. Then I realised that the cross couple non-inverting resistor 
divider is (basically) in parallel with the inverting Rin/Rf on the visavi 
cross coupled op-amp so I reduced them and ended up with 2 basic inverting 
amplifiers with the op-amp inputs cross tied directly. A resistor tied from 
each output to ground to keep the output symmetrical, 2 op-amps and 6 
resistors.

I hope that description makes sense.

The sim has 1V differential in = 1V differential out, 1V single ended in 
(one input tied to 0V) has symmetrical .5V on the non-inverted and -.5V on 
the inverted. This is exactly what I need!

It just seems wrong, and I?ve tried deliberately unbalancing the whole 
circuit in the sim, interchanging mix-matching op-amps and deliberately 
mismatching resistors but I think the SIM is failing me.

Is this actually a ?stable? circuit, or is the simulator just telling me 
what I want to see? Surely life isn?t that simple..

Regards,
Ben.





_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


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From benalog1977 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 04:00:04 2020
From: benalog1977 at gmail.com (Ben Riggs)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2020 10:00:04 +0700
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxKt+owGTQmQHDK6H+ROed2-hn5Y3dJNiRAu25FXPAE4Sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxKt+owGTQmQHDK6H+ROed2-hn5Y3dJNiRAu25FXPAE4Sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7EC7CDB6-B520-473D-9521-2F209373CEA5@gmail.com>

Yeah I know:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19rlz3_bgVclgZm5fZo7isq43QrmVGfst/view?usp=sharing

> On 18 Mar 2020, at 1:13 am, Neil Johnson <neil.johnson71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Too many words, need picture :)
> 
> Cheers
> Neil
> 
> On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 at 17:23, Ben Riggs <benalog1977 at gmail.com <mailto:benalog1977 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.
> 
> To start, I played with 2 cross-coupled input stock-standard differential op-amp circuits, then adding the ?Superbal? feedback to both inverting and non-inverting, then I ended up playing with the MCI cross coupled output driver to reduce parts-count (drv135). With the MCI circuit, all reference to the output resistor of the MCI in my research was about output impedance (being quasi-floating was for short circuit current when one input was tied to 0V), I recall in other reading years ago it was also to reduce the cross coupled gain below 1 for stability, but then in another ESP article Elliot compensated for the loss in gain?? I?m not interested in the quasi-floating aspect and won?t be tying either output to 0V so I dropped that output resistor. Then I realised that the cross couple non-inverting resistor divider is (basically) in parallel with the inverting Rin/Rf on the visavi cross coupled op-amp so I reduced them and ended up with 2 basic inverting amplifiers with the op-amp inputs cross tied directly. A resistor tied from each output to ground to keep the output symmetrical, 2 op-amps and 6 resistors.
> 
> I hope that description makes sense.
> 
> The sim has 1V differential in = 1V differential out, 1V single ended in (one input tied to 0V) has symmetrical .5V on the non-inverted and -.5V on the inverted. This is exactly what I need!
> 
> It just seems wrong, and I?ve tried deliberately unbalancing the whole circuit in the sim, interchanging mix-matching op-amps and deliberately mismatching resistors but I think the SIM is failing me.
> 
> Is this actually a ?stable? circuit, or is the simulator just telling me what I want to see? Surely life isn?t that simple..
> 
> Regards,
> Ben.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>

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From benalog1977 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 04:16:48 2020
From: benalog1977 at gmail.com (Ben Riggs)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2020 10:16:48 +0700
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
In-Reply-To: <831686469B5C4F0C9203D56FD59AE305@RICHIEPC>
References: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
 <831686469B5C4F0C9203D56FD59AE305@RICHIEPC>
Message-ID: <EE9EED29-17CF-453F-AD7F-8ED149D0DF12@gmail.com>

Thanks Richie,

I did play with this and can be made to do what I need, but the gain of this circuit is always greater than 1. to get unity gain the gain resistor needs to be removed and you?re left with basic op-amp followers or voltage dividers need to be added at the inputs which them makes it look like 2 difference amps (like the output stage of the instrumentation amp).

Ben.

> On 18 Mar 2020, at 1:46 am, Richie Burnett <rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> If you're after a buffer with balanced inputs and balanced outputs, then take a look at the input stage part (balanced part) of a conventional three op-amp "instrumentation amplifier" arrangement.  In other words the bits that surrounds the two op-amps on the left of this schematic:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentation_amplifier#/media/File:Op-Amp_Instrumentation_Amplifier.svg
> 
> You don't need the op-amp on the right and it's accompanying four resistors that make up the differential amplifier unless you want to convert the balanced output to single-ended.
> 
> This arrangement of two op-amps, two feedback resistors and one gain setting resistor tied between the inverting inputs has the following properties:
> 
> 1. Balanced input and output.
> 2. High input impedance (good for buffer)
> 3. Low output impedance (good for a buffer)
> 4. Gain is adjustable by varying a single resistor.
> 5. Good stability.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> -Richie,
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Ben Riggs
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 5:21 PM
> To: SDIY List
> Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.
> 
> To start, I played with 2 cross-coupled input stock-standard differential op-amp circuits, then adding the ?Superbal? feedback to both inverting and non-inverting, then I ended up playing with the MCI cross coupled output driver to reduce parts-count (drv135). With the MCI circuit, all reference to the output resistor of the MCI in my research was about output impedance (being quasi-floating was for short circuit current when one input was tied to 0V), I recall in other reading years ago it was also to reduce the cross coupled gain below 1 for stability, but then in another ESP article Elliot compensated for the loss in gain?? I?m not interested in the quasi-floating aspect and won?t be tying either output to 0V so I dropped that output resistor. Then I realised that the cross couple non-inverting resistor divider is (basically) in parallel with the inverting Rin/Rf on the visavi cross coupled op-amp so I reduced them and ended up with 2 basic inverting amplifiers with the op-amp inputs cross tied directly. A resistor tied from each output to ground to keep the output symmetrical, 2 op-amps and 6 resistors.
> 
> I hope that description makes sense.
> 
> The sim has 1V differential in = 1V differential out, 1V single ended in (one input tied to 0V) has symmetrical .5V on the non-inverted and -.5V on the inverted. This is exactly what I need!
> 
> It just seems wrong, and I?ve tried deliberately unbalancing the whole circuit in the sim, interchanging mix-matching op-amps and deliberately mismatching resistors but I think the SIM is failing me.
> 
> Is this actually a ?stable? circuit, or is the simulator just telling me what I want to see? Surely life isn?t that simple..
> 
> Regards,
> Ben.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com 




From hello at electro-smith.com  Wed Mar 18 21:51:00 2020
From: hello at electro-smith.com (Electrosmith)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2020 13:51:00 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] New DSP Platform: Daisy
Message-ID: <CAFvJM-ycL6sDf8B41nSR6R+9UTQnjKgE4Wdt-dXT7sNbuL9jsA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All!

I wanted to let you know that we recently announced a DSP platform for
audio called Daisy.

It features an STM32 ARM Cortex-M7 MCU running at 480MHz, AKM stereo audio
codec, 64MB of SDRAM, and 8MB of QSPI flash memory.

It's live on Kickstarter here!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/electro-smith/daisy-an-embedded-platform-for-music


Best,
Michael
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From kenny at beatkamp.com  Thu Mar 19 20:51:48 2020
From: kenny at beatkamp.com (Kenny Balys)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 19:51:48 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
Message-ID: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>


I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.

It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.

Shady clone?

Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?

Thank you kindly.


From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu Mar 19 21:09:45 2020
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 20:09:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
References: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Hi!

Here is the link to the datasheet... chinese I think...

http://www.i-techgz.com/i-tech/upload/profile/20160307/2016030750848705.pdf

Ciao
Peter

________________________________________
Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny Balys <kenny at beatkamp.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 20:51
An: SYNTH DIY
Betreff: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?


I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.

It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.

Shady clone?

Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?

Thank you kindly.
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his employees or an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately.




From kenny at beatkamp.com  Thu Mar 19 21:39:13 2020
From: kenny at beatkamp.com (Kenny Balys)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 20:39:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
 <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5E73D871.1000202@beatkamp.com>


Thank you kindly Ulrich, its very enlightening.

I was hoping it was just a LM386 clone but its not.



On 19.03.20 20:09 , Ullrich Peter wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Here is the link to the datasheet... chinese I think...
>
> http://www.i-techgz.com/i-tech/upload/profile/20160307/2016030750848705.pdf
>
> Ciao
> Peter
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny Balys <kenny at beatkamp.com>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 20:51
> An: SYNTH DIY
> Betreff: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
>
>
> I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
> Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.
>
> It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
> datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.
>
> Shady clone?
>
> Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?
>
> Thank you kindly.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>


From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Thu Mar 19 22:25:07 2020
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 14:25:07 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <5E73D871.1000202@beatkamp.com>
References: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
 <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E73D871.1000202@beatkamp.com>
Message-ID: <e3c29a81-3543-2b16-48b5-9810e2129416@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

"Just" make sure SD (pin 8) can't be pulled low?


On 3/19/2020 1:39 PM, Kenny Balys wrote:
> 
> Thank you kindly Ulrich, its very enlightening.
> 
> I was hoping it was just a LM386 clone but its not.
> 
> 
> 
> On 19.03.20 20:09 , Ullrich Peter wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> Here is the link to the datasheet... chinese I think...
>>
>> http://www.i-techgz.com/i-tech/upload/profile/20160307/2016030750848705.pdf 
>>
>>
>> Ciao
>> Peter
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny 
>> Balys <kenny at beatkamp.com>
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 20:51
>> An: SYNTH DIY
>> Betreff: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
>>
>>
>> I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
>> Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.
>>
>> It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
>> datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.
>>
>> Shady clone?
>>
>> Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?
>>
>> Thank you kindly.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 


From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Thu Mar 19 22:44:38 2020
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 21:44:38 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <e3c29a81-3543-2b16-48b5-9810e2129416@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
 <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E73D871.1000202@beatkamp.com>
 <e3c29a81-3543-2b16-48b5-9810e2129416@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <FCD4B49321FF4D70B64B7894FAF4F33B@RICHIEPC>

I feel your dissatisfaction!  Auto shutdown on PC speakers makes no sense at 
all because they don't wake up quick enough to play brief system 
notification sounds (e.g. when an email comes in,) which is surely what most 
PC speakers are really there for!?

Stay healthy everyone,

-Richie,



-----Original Message----- 
From: MTG
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 9:25 PM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?

"Just" make sure SD (pin 8) can't be pulled low?


On 3/19/2020 1:39 PM, Kenny Balys wrote:
>
> Thank you kindly Ulrich, its very enlightening.
>
> I was hoping it was just a LM386 clone but its not.
>
>
>
> On 19.03.20 20:09 , Ullrich Peter wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> Here is the link to the datasheet... chinese I think...
>>
>> http://www.i-techgz.com/i-tech/upload/profile/20160307/2016030750848705.pdf
>>
>> Ciao
>> Peter
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny 
>> Balys <kenny at beatkamp.com>
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 20:51
>> An: SYNTH DIY
>> Betreff: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
>>
>>
>> I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
>> Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.
>>
>> It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
>> datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.
>>
>> Shady clone?
>>
>> Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?
>>
>> Thank you kindly.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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From kenny at beatkamp.com  Thu Mar 19 22:46:26 2020
From: kenny at beatkamp.com (Kenny Balys)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 21:46:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <e3c29a81-3543-2b16-48b5-9810e2129416@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
 <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E73D871.1000202@beatkamp.com>
 <e3c29a81-3543-2b16-48b5-9810e2129416@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <5E73E832.6060807@beatkamp.com>


Pin 8 seems to be a status line.

Set = I Am On
Clear = I Am Off

Do you think I should try forcing it?



On 19.03.20 21:25 , MTG wrote:
> "Just" make sure SD (pin 8) can't be pulled low?
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 1:39 PM, Kenny Balys wrote:
>>
>> Thank you kindly Ulrich, its very enlightening.
>>
>> I was hoping it was just a LM386 clone but its not.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19.03.20 20:09 , Ullrich Peter wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Here is the link to the datasheet... chinese I think...
>>>
>>> http://www.i-techgz.com/i-tech/upload/profile/20160307/2016030750848705.pdf
>>>
>>> Ciao
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny Balys
>>> <kenny at beatkamp.com>
>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 20:51
>>> An: SYNTH DIY
>>> Betreff: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
>>> Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.
>>>
>>> It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
>>> datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.
>>>
>>> Shady clone?
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?
>>>
>>> Thank you kindly.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


From kenny at beatkamp.com  Thu Mar 19 22:54:03 2020
From: kenny at beatkamp.com (Kenny Balys)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 21:54:03 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <FCD4B49321FF4D70B64B7894FAF4F33B@RICHIEPC>
References: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
 <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E73D871.1000202@beatkamp.com>
 <e3c29a81-3543-2b16-48b5-9810e2129416@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <FCD4B49321FF4D70B64B7894FAF4F33B@RICHIEPC>
Message-ID: <5E73E9FB.5080409@beatkamp.com>


You know? Thats exactly it. What the hell! Who is making these stupid
design choices???



On 19.03.20 21:44 , Richie Burnett wrote:
> I feel your dissatisfaction!  Auto shutdown on PC speakers makes no sense at all
> because they don't wake up quick enough to play brief system notification sounds
> (e.g. when an email comes in,) which is surely what most PC speakers are really
> there for!?
>
> Stay healthy everyone,
>
> -Richie,
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: MTG
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 9:25 PM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
>
> "Just" make sure SD (pin 8) can't be pulled low?
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 1:39 PM, Kenny Balys wrote:
>>
>> Thank you kindly Ulrich, its very enlightening.
>>
>> I was hoping it was just a LM386 clone but its not.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19.03.20 20:09 , Ullrich Peter wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Here is the link to the datasheet... chinese I think...
>>>
>>> http://www.i-techgz.com/i-tech/upload/profile/20160307/2016030750848705.pdf
>>>
>>> Ciao
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny Balys
>>> <kenny at beatkamp.com>
>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 20:51
>>> An: SYNTH DIY
>>> Betreff: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
>>> Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.
>>>
>>> It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
>>> datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.
>>>
>>> Shady clone?
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?
>>>
>>> Thank you kindly.
>>> _______________________________________________


From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Thu Mar 19 23:23:37 2020
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 15:23:37 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <5E73E832.6060807@beatkamp.com>
References: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
 <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E73D871.1000202@beatkamp.com>
 <e3c29a81-3543-2b16-48b5-9810e2129416@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5E73E832.6060807@beatkamp.com>
Message-ID: <0db290b1-ea8d-41c4-3b5b-7bfa1dbbe4f6@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

I wouldn't force an output, no.  I don't read Chinese, and it being an 
analog thing (no communications input), I assumed SD was a Shutdown 
input.  Maybe Google Translate can help.  But you could be right and 
that it reflects the power being stable.


On 3/19/2020 2:46 PM, Kenny Balys wrote:
> 
> Pin 8 seems to be a status line.
> 
> Set = I Am On
> Clear = I Am Off
> 
> Do you think I should try forcing it?
> 
> 
> 
> On 19.03.20 21:25 , MTG wrote:
>> "Just" make sure SD (pin 8) can't be pulled low?
>>
>>
>> On 3/19/2020 1:39 PM, Kenny Balys wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you kindly Ulrich, its very enlightening.
>>>
>>> I was hoping it was just a LM386 clone but its not.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19.03.20 20:09 , Ullrich Peter wrote:
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> Here is the link to the datasheet... chinese I think...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.i-techgz.com/i-tech/upload/profile/20160307/2016030750848705.pdf 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von 
>>>> Kenny Balys
>>>> <kenny at beatkamp.com>
>>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 20:51
>>>> An: SYNTH DIY
>>>> Betreff: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
>>>> Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.
>>>>
>>>> It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
>>>> datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.
>>>>
>>>> Shady clone?
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you kindly.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> 
> 


From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu Mar 19 23:24:45 2020
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 22:24:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <5E73E832.6060807@beatkamp.com>
References: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
 <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E73D871.1000202@beatkamp.com>
 <e3c29a81-3543-2b16-48b5-9810e2129416@musictechnologiesgroup.com>,
 <5E73E832.6060807@beatkamp.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR03MB5118FE1FB7F1A4DF96B454AB94F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Hi!

I think it is not a status line - it is a shotdown input (as it is called "SD").
So another small circuit in the Box will typically generate this shutdown signal.
Maybe just a small integration circuit with comparator afterwards that shuts down if not significant level can be seen for xxx seconds.

Ciao
Peter
________________________________________
Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny Balys <kenny at beatkamp.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 22:46
An: MTG; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?


Pin 8 seems to be a status line.

Set = I Am On
Clear = I Am Off

Do you think I should try forcing it?



On 19.03.20 21:25 , MTG wrote:
> "Just" make sure SD (pin 8) can't be pulled low?
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 1:39 PM, Kenny Balys wrote:
>>
>> Thank you kindly Ulrich, its very enlightening.
>>
>> I was hoping it was just a LM386 clone but its not.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19.03.20 20:09 , Ullrich Peter wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Here is the link to the datasheet... chinese I think...
>>>
>>> http://www.i-techgz.com/i-tech/upload/profile/20160307/2016030750848705.pdf
>>>
>>> Ciao
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny Balys
>>> <kenny at beatkamp.com>
>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 20:51
>>> An: SYNTH DIY
>>> Betreff: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
>>> Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.
>>>
>>> It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
>>> datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.
>>>
>>> Shady clone?
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?
>>>
>>> Thank you kindly.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his employees or an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately.




From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Thu Mar 19 23:26:32 2020
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 15:26:32 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR03MB5118FE1FB7F1A4DF96B454AB94F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <5E73CD54.7070502@beatkamp.com>
 <VI1PR03MB511881F4BAD8989A668A75D294F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E73D871.1000202@beatkamp.com>
 <e3c29a81-3543-2b16-48b5-9810e2129416@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5E73E832.6060807@beatkamp.com>
 <VI1PR03MB5118FE1FB7F1A4DF96B454AB94F40@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0272d310-bedc-646d-43d5-6bec8b1a9d23@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

Yeah it has VIH and VIL parameters.

On 3/19/2020 3:24 PM, Ullrich Peter wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I think it is not a status line - it is a shotdown input (as it is called "SD").
> So another small circuit in the Box will typically generate this shutdown signal.
> Maybe just a small integration circuit with comparator afterwards that shuts down if not significant level can be seen for xxx seconds.
> 
> Ciao
> Peter
> ________________________________________
> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny Balys <kenny at beatkamp.com>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 22:46
> An: MTG; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
> 
> 
> Pin 8 seems to be a status line.
> 
> Set = I Am On
> Clear = I Am Off
> 
> Do you think I should try forcing it?
> 
> 
> 
> On 19.03.20 21:25 , MTG wrote:
>> "Just" make sure SD (pin 8) can't be pulled low?
>>
>>
>> On 3/19/2020 1:39 PM, Kenny Balys wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you kindly Ulrich, its very enlightening.
>>>
>>> I was hoping it was just a LM386 clone but its not.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19.03.20 20:09 , Ullrich Peter wrote:
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> Here is the link to the datasheet... chinese I think...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.i-techgz.com/i-tech/upload/profile/20160307/2016030750848705.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Kenny Balys
>>>> <kenny at beatkamp.com>
>>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. M?rz 2020 20:51
>>>> An: SYNTH DIY
>>>> Betreff: [sdiy] Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC datasheet?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to disable the stupid "auto sleep" function on a
>>>> Teenage Engineering / Ikea Frekvens speaker.
>>>>
>>>> It uses a Blue Sky TK0327E Amplifier IC but there is no
>>>> datasheet or website for this device or company it seems.
>>>>
>>>> Shady clone?
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know of a datasheet or of the equivalent part?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you kindly.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> 
> 
> The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his employees or an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately.
> 
> 
> 


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 01:14:14 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 20:14:14 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
Message-ID: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>

I'm working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).

So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.

I use a USART interrupt driven c function to 'catch' all the incoming MIDI
bytes.

My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16)
at the time 
when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard

all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes

I get stuck notes or unread ones..

Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR 
feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them

In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a
FIFO manner

Later in the main loop.

 

-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?

-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?

-And finaly I checked the web for a 'decent' C code examples

  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
  'Obscure' Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner
code.

 

Did anybody use good C code available ?

JP

 

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org

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From eidorian at aladan.net  Fri Mar 20 01:52:03 2020
From: eidorian at aladan.net (eidorian at aladan.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 11:52:03 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>

Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that
I hope might help point you in the right direction: 

20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400
instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction
execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the
efficiency/optimisation of the code. 

How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other
processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C
every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you
need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it
changes). 

How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the
interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it? 

Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the
interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for
certainly whether or not that's the problem. 

What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the
CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order
to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be
happening to cause the problematic behaviour. 

Cheers,
A.

---

On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

>> 

> I'm working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices). 
> 
> So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand. 
> 
> I use a USART interrupt driven c function to 'catch' all the incoming MIDI bytes. 
> 
> My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time 
> when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard 
> 
> all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes 
> 
> I get stuck notes or unread ones.. 
> 
> Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR 
> feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
> The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them 
> 
> In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner 
> 
> Later in the main loop. 
> 
> _-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?_ 
> 
> _-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?_ 
> 
> _-And finaly I checked the web for a 'decent' C code examples_ 
> 
> for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
> 'Obscure' Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code. 
> 
> Did anybody use good C code available ? 
> 
> JP 
> 
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From dougalli at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 02:06:06 2020
From: dougalli at gmail.com (dougall)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:06:06 +1100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
Message-ID: <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

-d

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:

> Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I
> hope might help point you in the right direction:
>
> 20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400
> instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction
> execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the
> efficiency/optimisation of the code.
>
> How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other
> processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C
> every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a
> different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).
>
> How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the
> interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?
>
> Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt,
> and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly
> whether or not that's the problem.
>
> What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the
> CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to
> try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to
> cause the problematic behaviour.
>
> Cheers,
> A.
> ---
>
>
>
> On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
>
>
> I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).
>
> So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.
>
> I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI
> bytes.
>
> My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel
> (1-16) at the time
> when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard
>
> all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes
>
> I get stuck notes or unread ones..
>
> Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR
> feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
> The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them
>
> In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a
> FIFO manner
>
> Later in the main loop.
>
>
>
> *-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed
> ?*
>
> *-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords
> ?*
>
> *-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples*
>
>
> *  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no
> success..  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of
> its inner code.*
>
>
>
> Did anybody use good C code available ?
>
> JP
>
>
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 02:26:54 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 21:26:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>

> Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

Yes I handle both.

Running status are ignored here,

And I consider both NOTE OFF and NOTE ON with zero velocity

As the end of a note.

 

 

De : dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com] 
Envoy? : 19 mars 2020 21:06
? : eidorian at aladan.net
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

 

-d

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:

Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:

20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400 instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the efficiency/optimisation of the code.

How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).

How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?

Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly whether or not that's the problem.

What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.

Cheers,
A.

---

 

 

On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

 

I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).

So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.

I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI bytes.

My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time 
when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard

all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes

I get stuck notes or unread ones..

Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR 
feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them

In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner

Later in the main loop.

 

-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?

-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?

-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples

  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code.

 

Did anybody use good C code available ?

JP

 

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org

 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From kenny at beatkamp.com  Fri Mar 20 02:51:18 2020
From: kenny at beatkamp.com (Kenny Balys)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 01:51:18 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Ikea Frekvens / Teenage Engineering Mini Speaker "Always
 Ready" Mod
Message-ID: <5E742196.7010204@beatkamp.com>


Hi AH & SDIY,

[[Cross posting this as both lists helped plenty in getting this figured out]]

Obviously, doing this mod cancels your warranty.

The purpose of this mod is to prevent the amplifier stage from going to sleep after
6 seconds. Without it there is a lag of something like 100ms delay before the
amplifier is ready to play. This means that the beginning of a sounds is chopped
off when using the Frekvens as a synth or drum machine amplifier.

With this mod, the amp never sleeps and is always ready to play. There is no
interference with charging, the major power save function (20 minutes?) or
anything else.

The toggle switch is needed so that the amp stage can be manually turned off. This
prevents a loud 'pop' on power on and draining of the battery while idle.

The Frekvens design is such that it is "always a little bit on" hence the need
for the toggle.

Anyhow, this works for me, hope it works for you.

Here are links to explanatory photos and a little video of the modification.

Close up hack points:

https://www.beatkamp.com/IkeaTeenageFrekvens/IkeaTeenageFrekvens_AlwaysReadyMod_TeensyConnections.jpg

Toggle switch:

https://www.beatkamp.com/IkeaTeenageFrekvens/IkeaTeenageFrekvens_AlwaysReadyMod_ToggleConnection.jpg

Done:

https://www.beatkamp.com/IkeaTeenageFrekvens/IkeaTeenageFrekvens_AlwaysReadyMod_Complete.jpg

And a little video:

https://www.beatkamp.com/IkeaTeenageFrekvens/IkeaTeenageFrekvens_AlwaysReadyMod.mov


With this mod, the little Frekvens speaker is the killer solution for all your
pocket synth, pocket amplifier needs.

Thanks for all the help everyone! :)


From maohelin at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 06:39:25 2020
From: maohelin at gmail.com (Mikko Helin)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 07:39:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>

>Running status are ignored here
So you are ignoring the data bytes that belong to next note on which is
using running status, meaning the sender does not send the same status byte
again but just skips it and just sends the key and velocity bytes?


pe 20. maalisk. 2020 klo 3.29 Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
kirjoitti:

> > Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note
> on?
>
> Yes I handle both.
>
> Running status are ignored here,
>
> And I consider both NOTE OFF and NOTE ON with zero velocity
>
> As the end of a note.
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com]
> *Envoy? :* 19 mars 2020 21:06
> *? :* eidorian at aladan.net
> *Cc :* Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
>
>
>
> Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?
>
>
>
> -d
>
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I
> hope might help point you in the right direction:
>
> 20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400
> instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction
> execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the
> efficiency/optimisation of the code.
>
> How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other
> processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C
> every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a
> different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).
>
> How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the
> interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?
>
> Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt,
> and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly
> whether or not that's the problem.
>
> What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the
> CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to
> try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to
> cause the problematic behaviour.
>
> Cheers,
> A.
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
> On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
>
>
> I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).
>
> So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.
>
> I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI
> bytes.
>
> My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel
> (1-16) at the time
> when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard
>
> all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes
>
> I get stuck notes or unread ones..
>
> Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR
> feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
> The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them
>
> In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a
> FIFO manner
>
> Later in the main loop.
>
>
>
> *-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed
> ?*
>
> *-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords
> ?*
>
> *-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples*
>
> *  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no
> success..*
> *  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its
> inner code.*
>
>
>
> Did anybody use good C code available ?
>
> JP
>
>
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From davebr at modularsynthesis.com  Fri Mar 20 07:13:06 2020
From: davebr at modularsynthesis.com (Dave Brown)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 23:13:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301d5fe7e$9f7420e0$de5c62a0$@modularsynthesis.com>

In 2005 I wrote a MIDI processing program to do minor manipulation such as transposing notes, changing CC messages, etc. I did it in assembly in an 8 MHZ ATTINY2313. Receive and transmit are interrupt driven out of 32 byte buffers each. It handles running status and can filter out some of the real time messages. It will take everything I can throw at it with two hands on the keyboard. It is highly optimized assembly but I suspect your issue is not emptying the buffers fast enough.

 

I also run this same code on a 16 MHz Basic Stamp which does have I2C D/As which do take some time so care has to be taken. The same code on an Arduino runs about 4.5X faster because the I2C is handled in hardware whereas on the Basic Stamp it is done in software.

 

I found my Tektronix scope with I2C decoding capability invaluable in seeing where my bottlenecks were in all the communications. Even without that capability I would often use an external pin to create timing signals so I could accurately measure code execution. But I?m a hw guy by nature.

 

FYI


Dave

 

De : dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com] 
Envoy? : 19 mars 2020 21:06
? : eidorian at aladan.net
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

 -d

 On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:

Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:

20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400 instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the efficiency/optimisation of the code.

How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).

How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?

Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly whether or not that's the problem.

What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.

Cheers,
A.

---

 

 

On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

 

I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).

So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.

I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI bytes.

My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time 
when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard

all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes

I get stuck notes or unread ones..

Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR 
feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them

In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner

Later in the main loop.

 

-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?

-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?

-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples

  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code.

 

Did anybody use good C code available ?

JP

 

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org

 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From rdawson16 at hotmail.com  Fri Mar 20 08:32:59 2020
From: rdawson16 at hotmail.com (Randy Dawson)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 07:32:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <000301d5fe7e$9f7420e0$de5c62a0$@modularsynthesis.com>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>,
 <000301d5fe7e$9f7420e0$de5c62a0$@modularsynthesis.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR06MB4359813F5190C12E6DE6E0E0BAF50@BYAPR06MB4359.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Dave,
Thats a really good tip to use the I2C decoding feature on the Tek.  I imagine by now its standard feature on the uhhh, clone Rigol scopes.
A look at basic circular buffer interrupt structure may help:
Buffer of length x is assigned;
head and tail pointers to buffer are equal;
Interrupt driven code is input from serial to buffer, moving head buffer and tail pointer +1 and storing new data;
application reads from tail buffer pointer, non interrupt driven,  at its own speed, decrements tail pointer;

Modulo buffer len math on the pointers, these two buffer pointers chase each other as interrupts and application run.

Randy




________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Dave Brown <davebr at modularsynthesis.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 11:13 PM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..


In 2005 I wrote a MIDI processing program to do minor manipulation such as transposing notes, changing CC messages, etc. I did it in assembly in an 8 MHZ ATTINY2313. Receive and transmit are interrupt driven out of 32 byte buffers each. It handles running status and can filter out some of the real time messages. It will take everything I can throw at it with two hands on the keyboard. It is highly optimized assembly but I suspect your issue is not emptying the buffers fast enough.



I also run this same code on a 16 MHz Basic Stamp which does have I2C D/As which do take some time so care has to be taken. The same code on an Arduino runs about 4.5X faster because the I2C is handled in hardware whereas on the Basic Stamp it is done in software.



I found my Tektronix scope with I2C decoding capability invaluable in seeing where my bottlenecks were in all the communications. Even without that capability I would often use an external pin to create timing signals so I could accurately measure code execution. But I?m a hw guy by nature.



FYI

Dave



De : dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com<mailto:dougalli at gmail.com>]
Envoy? : 19 mars 2020 21:06
? : eidorian at aladan.net<mailto:eidorian at aladan.net>
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

 -d

 On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net<mailto:eidorian at aladan.net>> wrote:

Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:

20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400 instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the efficiency/optimisation of the code.

How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).

How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?

Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly whether or not that's the problem.

What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.

Cheers,
A.

---





On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:



I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).

So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.

I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI bytes.

My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time
when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard

all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes

I get stuck notes or unread ones..

Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR
feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them

In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner

Later in the main loop.



-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?

-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?

-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples

  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code.



Did anybody use good C code available ?

JP



Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>



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Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
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From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Fri Mar 20 08:43:56 2020
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 07:43:56 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
Message-ID: <VI1PR03MB511814E543A5C34437AF8AD994F50@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Hi!

Yes, the Rigol, Siglent and maybe other scopes nowadays have the I2C decoding option installed.
For the keysight MSO scopes this option can be added - from time to time they offer a cheaper option pack with all option for the price of 3 or 4 options.

A nice I2C analyzing option have the Saleae Logic 8 and others (and even the cheap clones on Amazon).
Their software is very intuitive to handle!

Ciao
Peter

Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> Im Auftrag von Randy Dawson
Gesendet: Freitag, 20. M?rz 2020 08:33
An: Dave Brown <davebr at modularsynthesis.com>; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

Hi Dave,
Thats a really good tip to use the I2C decoding feature on the Tek.  I imagine by now its standard feature on the uhhh, clone Rigol scopes.
A look at basic circular buffer interrupt structure may help:
Buffer of length x is assigned;
head and tail pointers to buffer are equal;
Interrupt driven code is input from serial to buffer, moving head buffer and tail pointer +1 and storing new data;
application reads from tail buffer pointer, non interrupt driven,  at its own speed, decrements tail pointer;

Modulo buffer len math on the pointers, these two buffer pointers chase each other as interrupts and application run.

Randy




________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>> on behalf of Dave Brown <davebr at modularsynthesis.com<mailto:davebr at modularsynthesis.com>>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 11:13 PM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..


In 2005 I wrote a MIDI processing program to do minor manipulation such as transposing notes, changing CC messages, etc. I did it in assembly in an 8 MHZ ATTINY2313. Receive and transmit are interrupt driven out of 32 byte buffers each. It handles running status and can filter out some of the real time messages. It will take everything I can throw at it with two hands on the keyboard. It is highly optimized assembly but I suspect your issue is not emptying the buffers fast enough.



I also run this same code on a 16 MHz Basic Stamp which does have I2C D/As which do take some time so care has to be taken. The same code on an Arduino runs about 4.5X faster because the I2C is handled in hardware whereas on the Basic Stamp it is done in software.



I found my Tektronix scope with I2C decoding capability invaluable in seeing where my bottlenecks were in all the communications. Even without that capability I would often use an external pin to create timing signals so I could accurately measure code execution. But I'm a hw guy by nature.



FYI

Dave



De : dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com<mailto:dougalli at gmail.com>]
Envoy? : 19 mars 2020 21:06
? : eidorian at aladan.net<mailto:eidorian at aladan.net>
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

 -d

 On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net<mailto:eidorian at aladan.net>> wrote:

Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:

20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400 instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the efficiency/optimisation of the code.

How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).

How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?

Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly whether or not that's the problem.

What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.

Cheers,
A.

---





On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:



I'm working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).

So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.

I use a USART interrupt driven c function to 'catch' all the incoming MIDI bytes.

My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time
when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard

all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes

I get stuck notes or unread ones..

Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR
feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them

In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner

Later in the main loop.



-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?

-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?

-And finaly I checked the web for a 'decent' C code examples

  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
  'Obscure' Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code.



Did anybody use good C code available ?

JP



Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>



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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 15:11:48 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 10:11:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>

Hi Mikko,

 

Here is my USART Rx  interrupt routine :
Maybe you?ll spot any errors or things I forgot.. ??

 

void interrupt tmr0_USART_isr (void) 

 {

  char  x;                                      // intermediate byte value

 

  // RS232 receive interrupt                       

  if (RCIF == TRUE && RCIE == TRUE) 

   {                                                                                                                                                        

 

    if (OERR == TRUE)       // overrun, reset UART

     {                                                                                                       

      CREN = FALSE;     // disable UART

      CREN = TRUE;      // re-enable UART

     }                                         

   

    else 

     { 

      x = RCREG;

      if((x & 0xF0) != 0xF0)             // Ignore all 1 byte commands

       {                                                    // data without errors

        rcvbuf[rcvoffset] = x;         // move byte to rcv buffer                                                                                                                          

        rcvoffset++;                          // offset next byte

 

        if (rcvoffset == RCVBUFSIZE)    // beyond buffer boundary

          rcvoffset = 0;                                 // wrap to begin

       }  

 

      MIDI_ACTIVITY_LED = ON; //RC0 = 0; // Set led MIDI ACTIVITY to ON

      TMR0 = 0; // restart timer0

      T0IE=1;   // Activates overflow interrupt of TMR0 register

      RCIF = 0; // Erase MIDI RX flag

      }

    }

 

De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Mikko Helin
Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 01:39
? : synth-diy at synth-diy.org List
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

>Running status are ignored here

So you are ignoring the data bytes that belong to next note on which is using running status, meaning the sender does not send the same status byte again but just skips it and just sends the key and velocity bytes?

 

 

pe 20. maalisk. 2020 klo 3.29 Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> kirjoitti:

> Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

Yes I handle both.

Running status are ignored here,

And I consider both NOTE OFF and NOTE ON with zero velocity

As the end of a note.

 

 

De : dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com] 
Envoy? : 19 mars 2020 21:06
? : eidorian at aladan.net
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

 

-d

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:

Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:

20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400 instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the efficiency/optimisation of the code.

How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).

How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?

Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly whether or not that's the problem.

What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.

Cheers,
A.

---

 

 

On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

 

I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).

So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.

I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI bytes.

My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time 
when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard

all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes

I get stuck notes or unread ones..

Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR 
feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them

In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner

Later in the main loop.

 

-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?

-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?

-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples

  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code.

 

Did anybody use good C code available ?

JP

 

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org

 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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Synth-diy mailing list
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http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 15:15:23 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 10:15:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01d5fec1$ff0ccd70$fd266850$@oricom.ca>

Looking at my code I remembered this note I put in 

To be sure I won?t  forget it:

 

/*

Voice Message           Status Byte      Data Byte1          Data Byte2

-------------           -----------   -----------------   -----------------

Note off                      8x      Key number          Note Off velocity

Note on                       9x      Key number          Note on velocity

Polyphonic Key Pressure       Ax      Key number          Amount of pressure

Control Change                Bx      Controller number   Controller value

Program Change                Cx      Program number      None

Channel Pressure              Dx      Pressure value      None            

Pitch Bend                    Ex      MSB                 LSB

 

Channel mode messages are a special case of the Control Change message ( 0xBx or 1011nnnn). 

The difference between a Control message and a Channel Mode message, 

which share the same status byte value, is in the first data byte. 

Data byte values 121 through 127 have been reserved in the 

Control Change message for the channel mode messages. 

 

Channel mode messages determine how an instrument will process MIDI voice messages. 

 

1st Data Byte      Description                Meaning of 2nd Data Byte

-------------   ----------------------        ------------------------

     79        Reset all  controllers            None; set to 0

     7A        Local control                     0 = off; 127  = on

---->7B        All notes off   <------           None; set to 0

     7C        Omni mode off                     None; set to 0

     7D        Omni mode on                      None; set to 0

     7E        Mono mode on (Poly mode off)      **

     7F        Poly mode on (Mono mode off)      None; set to 0

*/

 

De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Mikko Helin
Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 01:39
? : synth-diy at synth-diy.org List
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

>Running status are ignored here

So you are ignoring the data bytes that belong to next note on which is using running status, meaning the sender does not send the same status byte again but just skips it and just sends the key and velocity bytes?

 

 

pe 20. maalisk. 2020 klo 3.29 Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> kirjoitti:

> Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

Yes I handle both.

Running status are ignored here,

And I consider both NOTE OFF and NOTE ON with zero velocity

As the end of a note.

 

 

De : dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com] 
Envoy? : 19 mars 2020 21:06
? : eidorian at aladan.net
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

 

-d

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:

Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:

20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400 instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the efficiency/optimisation of the code.

How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).

How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?

Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly whether or not that's the problem.

What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.

Cheers,
A.

---

 

 

On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

 

I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).

So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.

I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI bytes.

My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time 
when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard

all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes

I get stuck notes or unread ones..

Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR 
feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them

In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner

Later in the main loop.

 

-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?

-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?

-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples

  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code.

 

Did anybody use good C code available ?

JP

 

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org

 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From synth at schmitzbits.de  Fri Mar 20 15:48:45 2020
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:48:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>

On 20.03.2020 15:11, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> Hi Mikko,
> 
> Here is my USART Rx ?interrupt routine?:
> Maybe you?ll spot any errors or things I forgot.. ??

Without looking at the interrupt setup code I'm not sure, but it seems 
you check the USART in a Timer ISR is that the intention? (by how you 
named things.)
if so, it could be that sometimes you miss a byte because there is an 
overrun between two timer cycles. have you tried seeing if the overrun 
flag is actually set? (maybe toggle a pin so you can check with a scope.)

Best,
  Ren?

--
synth at schmitzbits.de
http://schmitzbits.de


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 15:55:49 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 10:55:49 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
 <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>
Message-ID: <004301d5fec7$a58bfea0$f0a3fbe0$@oricom.ca>

Here is my complete interrupt routine,

This routine could be called by the USART, Timer0 or Timer1

And so reacts on which is calling..

Problem doing that ?

And yes I have to check for any USART overrun OERR flag here

To see if it sometimes happens..

 

///////////////////////////////

// ----------------------------

//  interrupt service routine

// ----------------------------

///////////////////////////////                              

 

void interrupt tmr0_USART_isr (void) 

 {

  char  x;      // intermediate byte value

 

  // RS232 receive interrupt                       

  if (RCIF == TRUE && RCIE == TRUE) 

   {                                                     

 

    if (OERR == TRUE)     // overrun, reset UART

     {                                              

      CREN = FALSE;       // disable UART

      CREN = TRUE;        // re-enable UART

     }                                         

   

    else 

     { 

      x = RCREG;

      if((x & 0xF0) != 0xF0)    // Ignore all 1 byte commands

       {                                  // data without errors

        rcvbuf[rcvoffset] = x;            // move byte to rcv buffer                                                    

        rcvoffset++;                     // offset next byte

 

        if (rcvoffset == RCVBUFSIZE)    // beyond buffer boundary

          rcvoffset = 0;                // wrap to begin

       }  

 

      MIDI_ACTIVITY_LED = ON; //RC0 = 0; // Set led MIDI ACTIVITY to ON

      TMR0 = 0; // restart timer0

      T0IE=1;   // Activates overflow interrupt of TMR0 register

      RCIF = 0; // Erase MIDI RX flag

      }

 

 

    }

 

  // Timer0 interrupt

  if (T0IF == TRUE)

   {

    MIDI_ACTIVITY_LED = OFF; //RC0 = 1; // Shut down MIDI ACTIVITY led

    T0IF = 0;

    T0IE=0; // Prevent overflow interrupt of TMR0 register

   }

 

 

  // Timer1 interrupt

  if (TMR1IF == TRUE)

   {

    TIMER1_mult++;

    if(TIMER1_mult == TIMER1_MUL_MAX)

     {

      TIMER1_mult = 0;

      ARPEGGIO_LED ^= 1;  // RC1 ^= 1;

     }

    TMR1H = arpeggio_rate;

    TMR1L = 0;

    TMR1IF = 0;

   }

 

}

 

 

 

 

*************************************************************************

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Ren? Schmitz
Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 10:49
? : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

On 20.03.2020 15:11, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

> Hi Mikko,

> 

> Here is my USART Rx  interrupt routine :

> Maybe you?ll spot any errors or things I forgot.. ??

 

Without looking at the interrupt setup code I'm not sure, but it seems 

you check the USART in a Timer ISR is that the intention? (by how you 

named things.)

if so, it could be that sometimes you miss a byte because there is an 

overrun between two timer cycles. have you tried seeing if the overrun 

flag is actually set? (maybe toggle a pin so you can check with a scope.)

 

Best,

  Ren?

 

--

synth at schmitzbits.de

http://schmitzbits.de

_______________________________________________

Synth-diy mailing list

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org

http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From vladoman at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 15:58:14 2020
From: vladoman at gmail.com (Vladimir Pantelic)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:58:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
 <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>
Message-ID: <d11c4144-da58-f269-622f-db08ea4210b0@gmail.com>

also, without knowing the uC you are using, is there DMA for the UART?

On 20.03.20 15:48, Ren? Schmitz wrote:
> On 20.03.2020 15:11, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>> Hi Mikko,
>>
>> Here is my USART Rx ?interrupt routine?:
>> Maybe you?ll spot any errors or things I forgot.. ??
> 
> Without looking at the interrupt setup code I'm not sure, but it seems
> you check the USART in a Timer ISR is that the intention? (by how you
> named things.)
> if so, it could be that sometimes you miss a byte because there is an
> overrun between two timer cycles. have you tried seeing if the overrun
> flag is actually set? (maybe toggle a pin so you can check with a scope.)
> 
> Best,
> ?Ren?
> 
> -- 
> synth at schmitzbits.de
> http://schmitzbits.de
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Mar 20 15:59:52 2020
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 14:59:52 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
 <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>
Message-ID: <01359721-7818-4221-A078-4AC5820E361D@electricdruid.net>


> On 20 Mar 2020, at 14:48, Ren? Schmitz <synth at schmitzbits.de> wrote:
> 
> On 20.03.2020 15:11, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>> Hi Mikko,
>> Here is my USART Rx  interrupt routine :
>> Maybe you?ll spot any errors or things I forgot.. ??
> 
> Without looking at the interrupt setup code I'm not sure, but it seems you check the USART in a Timer ISR is that the intention? (by how you named things.)
> if so, it could be that sometimes you miss a byte because there is an overrun between two timer cycles. have you tried seeing if the overrun flag is actually set? (maybe toggle a pin so you can check with a scope.)
> 
> Best,
> Ren?

+1agree with Ren? - what?s going on with Timer1?

You?ve got a UART Rx interrupt, so use that instead. When the byte comes in, stick it in the buffer like you?re doing. Maybe use the Timer interupt to process MIDI messages every couple of milliseconds or so (It takes a millisecond for a full note-on message to arrive anyway, so there?s not *much* point going faster). If you use the Rx interrupt, you also don?t need to check RCIF and RCIE on entry, which saves you time.

I?d also use modulus arithmetic to limit the length of the buffer (especially since your buffer is 32 bytes not something awkward like 57). That saves an ?if? statement:

 rcvbuf[rcvoffset & 31] = x;         // move byte to rcv buffer, limited to index 0-31                                                                                                                       
 rcvoffset++;                          // offset next byte


Personally, I?d probably drop some of the safety checking the various error flags in the interrupt. You could check those in the processing routine instead. They?ll just be slowing things down and possibly making the events they check for more likely to occur!

Tom

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From synth at schmitzbits.de  Fri Mar 20 16:13:54 2020
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 16:13:54 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <004301d5fec7$a58bfea0$f0a3fbe0$@oricom.ca>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
 <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>
 <004301d5fec7$a58bfea0$f0a3fbe0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <1bb99b4b-6edb-46c9-29f0-8b38fa108d29@schmitzbits.de>

On 20.03.2020 15:55, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> Here is my complete interrupt routine,
> 
> This routine could be called by the USART, Timer0 or Timer1
> 
> And so reacts on which is calling..
> 
> Problem doing that ?

Would use seperate ISRs, so I'm not an expert on this.
(I'd check: When do the flags get cleared? Could there be race conditions?)


> And yes I have to check for any USART overrun OERR flag here
> To see if it sometimes happens..

If you can rule that out, it isn't that.

However I miss a check if there is room left in your buffer.

Best,
  Ren?

--
synth at schmitzbits.de
http://schmitzbits.de


From colindorward at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 16:39:12 2020
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 11:39:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Crocodile/alligator clips for patching
In-Reply-To: <EC9ECF6E-4115-4EB7-BD2C-5E8A0EE448E9@gmail.com>
References: <EC9ECF6E-4115-4EB7-BD2C-5E8A0EE448E9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy4OCp5H=sadNS2A=kNZup7sb7PXv8zGLJt71hgav8XOFA@mail.gmail.com>

Ho Xavier,
I don't know about the contact strength/resistance of alligator clips, but
my experiences this winter with alligators on the breadboard, etc, have
made me really dislike them. They perform very poorly in the cold. The
rubber jackets get stiff and prevent you from being able to open the jaws,
and the joints themselves also become very stiff. IMO bananas outperform
anything that relies on mechanical action to make the connection.
Maybe you'd be fine if it's a warm place you'll by synthesizing in.
Let us know what you decide!
Colin

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 2:20 PM Xavier Butcher <zeedeeh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been planning a banana jack system, and have just seen the SOMA
> Pulsar 23, which actually uses M3 bolts and crocodile clips for patching!
> https://www.synthesizer.gr/soma-pulsar-23
>
> The system i?m planning is already quite unconventional as it is, battery
> powered with each module a separate boat made from salvaged cases, powered
> with ethernet cables.
>
> I?m wondering if using crocodile clips is basically the same as using
> bananas? would there be more noise/interference issues?
>
> Cheers
> Xavier
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>


-- 
https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/
-
<https://www.instagram.com/colinmuirdorward/>
https://www.instagram.com/ssdp_synthesis/
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From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Mar 20 16:53:22 2020
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:53:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <1bb99b4b-6edb-46c9-29f0-8b38fa108d29@schmitzbits.de>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
 <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>
 <004301d5fec7$a58bfea0$f0a3fbe0$@oricom.ca>
 <1bb99b4b-6edb-46c9-29f0-8b38fa108d29@schmitzbits.de>
Message-ID: <35AA4078-98A2-4CF5-A31A-B3DB80B0B876@electricdruid.net>



> On 20 Mar 2020, at 15:13, Ren? Schmitz <synth at schmitzbits.de> wrote:
> 
> On 20.03.2020 15:55, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>> Here is my complete interrupt routine,
>> This routine could be called by the USART, Timer0 or Timer1
>> And so reacts on which is calling..
>> Problem doing that ?
> 
> Would use seperate ISRs, so I'm not an expert on this.
> (I'd check: When do the flags get cleared? Could there be race conditions?)

There?s no ?separate? interrupt routine on the basic PICs. Any interrupt causes a jump to the same place, so it?s up to the interrupt routine to check which interrupt has occurred, assuming more than one is enabled.

And that?s the clue - "if more than one is enabled?. I?d have *only* the UART Rx interrupt enabled, and then you know when the interrupt occurs exactly what is going on without having to check.

In the main code, you can poll the TMR1IF flag to see if the timer has timed out and then run the processing routine if it has - no need to have an interrupt for that.

Tom


From zeedeeh at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 19:16:21 2020
From: zeedeeh at gmail.com (Xavier Butcher)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 19:16:21 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Crocodile/alligator clips for patching
Message-ID: <EC9ECF6E-4115-4EB7-BD2C-5E8A0EE448E9@gmail.com>

Hi,

I have been planning a banana jack system, and have just seen the SOMA Pulsar 23, which actually uses M3 bolts and crocodile clips for patching! https://www.synthesizer.gr/soma-pulsar-23 <https://www.synthesizer.gr/soma-pulsar-23>

The system i?m planning is already quite unconventional as it is, battery powered with each module a separate boat made from salvaged cases, powered with ethernet cables.

I?m wondering if using crocodile clips is basically the same as using bananas? would there be more noise/interference issues?

Cheers
Xavier
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From kmkennedy at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 19:36:49 2020
From: kmkennedy at gmail.com (Kylee Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 11:36:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Crocodile/alligator clips for patching
In-Reply-To: <EC9ECF6E-4115-4EB7-BD2C-5E8A0EE448E9@gmail.com>
References: <EC9ECF6E-4115-4EB7-BD2C-5E8A0EE448E9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADD61nXBfXtkDmbqcLHjuP4CdVemMe0mQGi6E4i-S4wa3AC9OA@mail.gmail.com>

Your mileage might vary but most of the alligator clips I've bought over
the years the wire isn't even soldered to the clip. It's just crimped on.
With a soft tug they have desleeved on me. I use them during breadboard
prototyping and any sort of touch or wiggle can cause intermediate drop
outs. Had them pop off or slide off wires if their grip isn't secure. I
would say Banana's are way more solid connections. The really cool part
about the Soma/Alligator clip setup is you have those little screw ends
poking up out of your case and can make quick conductive bridges with your
fingers that you wouldn't be able to with empty jacks.

The Pulsar 23 does sound very good. Curious to know what filter they
used...sounds like the earlier MS-20 VCF.

Kylee




On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 11:20 AM Xavier Butcher <zeedeeh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been planning a banana jack system, and have just seen the SOMA
> Pulsar 23, which actually uses M3 bolts and crocodile clips for patching!
> https://www.synthesizer.gr/soma-pulsar-23
>
> The system i?m planning is already quite unconventional as it is, battery
> powered with each module a separate boat made from salvaged cases, powered
> with ethernet cables.
>
> I?m wondering if using crocodile clips is basically the same as using
> bananas? would there be more noise/interference issues?
>
> Cheers
> Xavier
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From maohelin at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 19:40:31 2020
From: maohelin at gmail.com (Mikko Helin)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 20:40:31 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <CAJ5nAj6_crmmF4QjCUPLoUF2C94EkggZae8ZteD0CdEYNDcbYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I would keep the ISR very simple like this and handle rest in main loop.

#define RCVBUFSIZEMASK 0x3F // for 64 bytes, 0x1F for 32 bytes
unsigned char rcvbuf[RCVBUFSIZEMASK+1];
unsigned int rcvoffset = 0;

void interrupt USART_isr (void) {
  unsigned char x;
  if (RCIF == 1) {
    x = RCREG;
    rcvbuf[rcvoffset++ & RCVBUFSIZEMASK] = x;

  }
}

void main() {
  // TODO setup UART & ISR
  unsigned int readoffset = 0;
  unsigned char running_status = 0;
  unsigned char databyte_cnt = 0; // keep count of data bytes
  unsigned char data;
  RCIE = 1 // enable interrupts
  // other initialisations
  while (1) {
    unsigned char x;
    while (rcvoffset != readoffset) {
        MIDI_ACTIVITY_LED = ON;
        x = rcvbuf[readoffset++ & RCVBUFSIZEMASK];
        if (x & 0x80 == 0x80) { // handle status
            running_status = x;
            continue;
        }
        switch (running_status) {
        case NOTE_ON:
            if (databyte_cnt == 0) {
                data = x;
                databyte_cnt++;
                continue;
            }
            if (databyte_cnt == 1) {
                handle_midi_note_on_off(data, x); // key, velocity,
velocity = 0 => note off
                databyte_cnt = 0;
            }
            break;
        }
    }
    MIDI_ACTIVITY_LED = OFF;
    }
}

or something like that. If you have to send something from MIDI out I would
just use polling like
TXREG = midi_data_to_send;
while (!TRMT);

--Mikko

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 4:11 PM Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
wrote:

> Hi Mikko,
>
>
>
> Here is my USART Rx  interrupt routine :
> Maybe you?ll spot any errors or things I forgot.. ??
>
>
>
> *void interrupt tmr0_USART_isr (void) *
>
> * {*
>
> *  char  x;                                      // intermediate byte
> value*
>
>
>
> *  // RS232 receive interrupt                       *
>
> *  if (RCIF == TRUE && RCIE == TRUE) *
>
> *   {
>
> *
>
>
>
> *    if (OERR == TRUE)       // overrun, reset UART*
>
> *     {
>
> *
>
> *      CREN = FALSE;     // disable UART*
>
> *      CREN = TRUE;      // re-enable UART*
>
> *     }                                         *
>
>
>
> *    else *
>
> *     { *
>
> *      x = RCREG;*
>
> *      if((x & 0xF0) != 0xF0)             // Ignore all 1 byte commands*
>
> *       {                                                    // data
> without errors*
>
> *        rcvbuf[rcvoffset] = x;         // move byte to rcv
> buffer
>
> *
>
> *        rcvoffset++;                          // offset next byte*
>
>
>
> *        if (rcvoffset == RCVBUFSIZE)    // beyond buffer boundary*
>
> *          rcvoffset = 0;                                 // wrap to begin*
>
> *       }  *
>
>
>
> *      MIDI_ACTIVITY_LED = ON; //RC0 = 0; // Set led MIDI ACTIVITY to ON*
>
> *      TMR0 = 0; // restart timer0*
>
> *      T0IE=1;   // Activates overflow interrupt of TMR0 register*
>
>       *RCIF = 0; // Erase MIDI RX flag*
>
> *      }*
>
>     *}*
>
>
>
> *De :* Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] *De la part de*
> Mikko Helin
> *Envoy? :* 20 mars 2020 01:39
> *? :* synth-diy at synth-diy.org List
> *Objet :* Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
>
>
>
> >Running status are ignored here
>
> So you are ignoring the data bytes that belong to next note on which is
> using running status, meaning the sender does not send the same status byte
> again but just skips it and just sends the key and velocity bytes?
>
>
>
>
>
> pe 20. maalisk. 2020 klo 3.29 Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
> kirjoitti:
>
> > Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note
> on?
>
> Yes I handle both.
>
> Running status are ignored here,
>
> And I consider both NOTE OFF and NOTE ON with zero velocity
>
> As the end of a note.
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com]
> *Envoy? :* 19 mars 2020 21:06
> *? :* eidorian at aladan.net
> *Cc :* Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
>
>
>
> Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?
>
>
>
> -d
>
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I
> hope might help point you in the right direction:
>
> 20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400
> instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction
> execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the
> efficiency/optimisation of the code.
>
> How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other
> processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C
> every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a
> different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).
>
> How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the
> interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?
>
> Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt,
> and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly
> whether or not that's the problem.
>
> What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the
> CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to
> try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to
> cause the problematic behaviour.
>
> Cheers,
> A.
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
> On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
>
>
> I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).
>
> So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.
>
> I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI
> bytes.
>
> My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel
> (1-16) at the time
> when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard
>
> all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes
>
> I get stuck notes or unread ones..
>
> Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR
> feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
> The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them
>
> In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a
> FIFO manner
>
> Later in the main loop.
>
>
>
> *-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed
> ?*
>
> *-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords
> ?*
>
> *-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples*
>
> *  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no
> success..*
> *  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its
> inner code.*
>
>
>
> Did anybody use good C code available ?
>
> JP
>
>
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 19:46:05 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 14:46:05 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <d11c4144-da58-f269-622f-db08ea4210b0@gmail.com>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <CAJ5nAj6DPshaYd_Vt5d+L1aLU78+R6N6XTWbqJUcbFQvYFKq-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d5fec1$7f41ce60$7dc56b20$@oricom.ca>
 <b05e73ab-1b98-262f-0df9-b02f26adecf8@schmitzbits.de>
 <d11c4144-da58-f269-622f-db08ea4210b0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005a01d5fee7$d029d2c0$707d7840$@oricom.ca>

> also, without knowing the uC you are using, is there DMA for the UART?
No, So far I test with an old Microchip PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz.


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Vladimir Pantelic
Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 10:58
? : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

also, without knowing the uC you are using, is there DMA for the UART?

On 20.03.20 15:48, Ren? Schmitz wrote:
> On 20.03.2020 15:11, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>> Hi Mikko,
>>
>> Here is my USART Rx  interrupt routine :
>> Maybe you?ll spot any errors or things I forgot.. ??
> 
> Without looking at the interrupt setup code I'm not sure, but it seems
> you check the USART in a Timer ISR is that the intention? (by how you
> named things.)
> if so, it could be that sometimes you miss a byte because there is an
> overrun between two timer cycles. have you tried seeing if the overrun
> flag is actually set? (maybe toggle a pin so you can check with a scope.)
> 
> Best,
>  Ren?
> 
> -- 
> synth at schmitzbits.de
> http://schmitzbits.de
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
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Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
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From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Mar 20 19:48:13 2020
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 18:48:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxKt+owGTQmQHDK6H+ROed2-hn5Y3dJNiRAu25FXPAE4Sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxKt+owGTQmQHDK6H+ROed2-hn5Y3dJNiRAu25FXPAE4Sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB83B05A-6BF0-470E-90F0-8E4074A24D7F@electricdruid.net>

Agreed, can you post a screenshot of your sim somewhere?

Thanks,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================

> On 17 Mar 2020, at 18:13, Neil Johnson <neil.johnson71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Too many words, need picture :)
> 
> Cheers
> Neil
> 
> On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 at 17:23, Ben Riggs <benalog1977 at gmail.com <mailto:benalog1977 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.
> 
> To start, I played with 2 cross-coupled input stock-standard differential op-amp circuits, then adding the ?Superbal? feedback to both inverting and non-inverting, then I ended up playing with the MCI cross coupled output driver to reduce parts-count (drv135). With the MCI circuit, all reference to the output resistor of the MCI in my research was about output impedance (being quasi-floating was for short circuit current when one input was tied to 0V), I recall in other reading years ago it was also to reduce the cross coupled gain below 1 for stability, but then in another ESP article Elliot compensated for the loss in gain?? I?m not interested in the quasi-floating aspect and won?t be tying either output to 0V so I dropped that output resistor. Then I realised that the cross couple non-inverting resistor divider is (basically) in parallel with the inverting Rin/Rf on the visavi cross coupled op-amp so I reduced them and ended up with 2 basic inverting amplifiers with the op-amp inputs cross tied directly. A resistor tied from each output to ground to keep the output symmetrical, 2 op-amps and 6 resistors.
> 
> I hope that description makes sense.
> 
> The sim has 1V differential in = 1V differential out, 1V single ended in (one input tied to 0V) has symmetrical .5V on the non-inverted and -.5V on the inverted. This is exactly what I need!
> 
> It just seems wrong, and I?ve tried deliberately unbalancing the whole circuit in the sim, interchanging mix-matching op-amps and deliberately mismatching resistors but I think the SIM is failing me.
> 
> Is this actually a ?stable? circuit, or is the simulator just telling me what I want to see? Surely life isn?t that simple..
> 
> Regards,
> Ben.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 20:10:10 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:10:10 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart..    WAS  MIDI I/O c code..
Message-ID: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>

One idea came to my mind reading all your great comments:
Would it be usefull for anybody in this DIY forum including newbies like me
that someone would publish a 'starting' MIDI receiving flowchart
of the basics from the incoming bytes to the actual final process
of each received notes ?
For example this helping flowchart would show the basic steps
of first: the interrupt function (USART Rx flag test, RxBuffer[] updating, etc...)
Then the behaviour of the main loop processing each received byte
for let's say a polyphonic MIDI to CV 8 voices module ?
And only for one MIDI channel for simplicity to understanding ?
I did in the past a big flowchart for my MIDI to CV 6 voices module
That I could 'squeeze'to keep only what's stated above.
This could be a starting point for anybody who wants to 'correct' things
and this way the DIY forum would have a 'list standardized' flowchart
For anybody to use in the future..
This would answer many design questions to come.
Again, a small flowchart of how to receive MIDI bytes for only one MIDI channel
And process for polyphonic use (8 voices).
If this suggestion interests enough diyers I could put my cleaned out
Flowchart on the list as a start..
Or maybe I'll be the only guy to be interested in that
Since many of you gurus have already been through these codings..
JP 






From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Mar 20 20:15:02 2020
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 19:15:02 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart..    WAS  MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>

I think a flowchart is a good idea, but I?d say that the voice assignment part is a separate thing from the MIDI. Voice handling is a whole area in its own right.

Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================

> On 20 Mar 2020, at 19:10, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:
> 
> One idea came to my mind reading all your great comments:
> Would it be usefull for anybody in this DIY forum including newbies like me
> that someone would publish a 'starting' MIDI receiving flowchart
> of the basics from the incoming bytes to the actual final process
> of each received notes ?
> For example this helping flowchart would show the basic steps
> of first: the interrupt function (USART Rx flag test, RxBuffer[] updating, etc...)
> Then the behaviour of the main loop processing each received byte
> for let's say a polyphonic MIDI to CV 8 voices module ?
> And only for one MIDI channel for simplicity to understanding ?
> I did in the past a big flowchart for my MIDI to CV 6 voices module
> That I could 'squeeze'to keep only what's stated above.
> This could be a starting point for anybody who wants to 'correct' things
> and this way the DIY forum would have a 'list standardized' flowchart
> For anybody to use in the future..
> This would answer many design questions to come.
> Again, a small flowchart of how to receive MIDI bytes for only one MIDI channel
> And process for polyphonic use (8 voices).
> If this suggestion interests enough diyers I could put my cleaned out
> Flowchart on the list as a start..
> Or maybe I'll be the only guy to be interested in that
> Since many of you gurus have already been through these codings..
> JP 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 20:26:07 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 19:26:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>

You mean like this:

https://github.com/nejohnson/miby

Look in the /doc folder for a PDF.

Neil

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 19:17, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

> I think a flowchart is a good idea, but I?d say that the voice assignment
> part is a separate thing from the MIDI. Voice handling is a whole area in
> its own right.
>
> Tom
>
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
>
> On 20 Mar 2020, at 19:10, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
> wrote:
>
> One idea came to my mind reading all your great comments:
> Would it be usefull for anybody in this DIY forum including newbies like me
> that someone would publish a 'starting' MIDI receiving flowchart
> of the basics from the incoming bytes to the actual final process
> of each received notes ?
> For example this helping flowchart would show the basic steps
> of first: the interrupt function (USART Rx flag test, RxBuffer[] updating,
> etc...)
> Then the behaviour of the main loop processing each received byte
> for let's say a polyphonic MIDI to CV 8 voices module ?
> And only for one MIDI channel for simplicity to understanding ?
> I did in the past a big flowchart for my MIDI to CV 6 voices module
> That I could 'squeeze'to keep only what's stated above.
> This could be a starting point for anybody who wants to 'correct' things
> and this way the DIY forum would have a 'list standardized' flowchart
> For anybody to use in the future..
> This would answer many design questions to come.
> Again, a small flowchart of how to receive MIDI bytes for only one MIDI
> channel
> And process for polyphonic use (8 voices).
> If this suggestion interests enough diyers I could put my cleaned out
> Flowchart on the list as a start..
> Or maybe I'll be the only guy to be interested in that
> Since many of you gurus have already been through these codings..
> JP
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 20:34:46 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:34:46 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008801d5feee$9d5b5e20$d8121a60$@oricom.ca>

Yes, but It?s incomplete about the received notes and how to process

Them for 8 voices..

 

De : Neil Johnson [mailto:neil.johnson71 at gmail.com] 
Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 15:26
? : Tom Wiltshire
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; SDIY List
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..

 

You mean like this:

 

https://github.com/nejohnson/miby

 

Look in the /doc folder for a PDF.

 

Neil

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 19:17, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

I think a flowchart is a good idea, but I?d say that the voice assignment part is a separate thing from the MIDI. Voice handling is a whole area in its own right.

 

Tom

 

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================





On 20 Mar 2020, at 19:10, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:

 

One idea came to my mind reading all your great comments:
Would it be usefull for anybody in this DIY forum including newbies like me
that someone would publish a 'starting' MIDI receiving flowchart
of the basics from the incoming bytes to the actual final process
of each received notes ?
For example this helping flowchart would show the basic steps
of first: the interrupt function (USART Rx flag test, RxBuffer[] updating, etc...)
Then the behaviour of the main loop processing each received byte
for let's say a polyphonic MIDI to CV 8 voices module ?
And only for one MIDI channel for simplicity to understanding ?
I did in the past a big flowchart for my MIDI to CV 6 voices module
That I could 'squeeze'to keep only what's stated above.
This could be a starting point for anybody who wants to 'correct' things
and this way the DIY forum would have a 'list standardized' flowchart
For anybody to use in the future..
This would answer many design questions to come.
Again, a small flowchart of how to receive MIDI bytes for only one MIDI channel
And process for polyphonic use (8 voices).
If this suggestion interests enough diyers I could put my cleaned out
Flowchart on the list as a start..
Or maybe I'll be the only guy to be interested in that
Since many of you gurus have already been through these codings..
JP 




_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 20:49:34 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 15:49:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <008801d5feee$9d5b5e20$d8121a60$@oricom.ca>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <008801d5feee$9d5b5e20$d8121a60$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <009301d5fef0$ae7ad7b0$0b708710$@oricom.ca>

In fact nobody wants to re-invent the wheel, so?

I?m sure many of you guys,  MIDI hardware designers on this list went through

drawing some kind of coding flowchart before you started typing right ?

These ?drawings? would be very helpful for people like me.

JP

 

De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 15:35
? : 'Neil Johnson'; 'Tom Wiltshire'
Cc : 'SDIY List'
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..

 

Yes, but It?s incomplete about the received notes and how to process

Them for 8 voices..

 

De : Neil Johnson [mailto:neil.johnson71 at gmail.com] 
Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 15:26
? : Tom Wiltshire
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; SDIY List
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..

 

You mean like this:

 

https://github.com/nejohnson/miby

 

Look in the /doc folder for a PDF.

 

Neil

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 19:17, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

I think a flowchart is a good idea, but I?d say that the voice assignment part is a separate thing from the MIDI. Voice handling is a whole area in its own right.

 

Tom

 

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================

 

On 20 Mar 2020, at 19:10, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:

 

One idea came to my mind reading all your great comments:
Would it be usefull for anybody in this DIY forum including newbies like me
that someone would publish a 'starting' MIDI receiving flowchart
of the basics from the incoming bytes to the actual final process
of each received notes ?
For example this helping flowchart would show the basic steps
of first: the interrupt function (USART Rx flag test, RxBuffer[] updating, etc...)
Then the behaviour of the main loop processing each received byte
for let's say a polyphonic MIDI to CV 8 voices module ?
And only for one MIDI channel for simplicity to understanding ?
I did in the past a big flowchart for my MIDI to CV 6 voices module
That I could 'squeeze'to keep only what's stated above.
This could be a starting point for anybody who wants to 'correct' things
and this way the DIY forum would have a 'list standardized' flowchart
For anybody to use in the future..
This would answer many design questions to come.
Again, a small flowchart of how to receive MIDI bytes for only one MIDI channel
And process for polyphonic use (8 voices).
If this suggestion interests enough diyers I could put my cleaned out
Flowchart on the list as a start..
Or maybe I'll be the only guy to be interested in that
Since many of you gurus have already been through these codings..
JP 




_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From shedsynth at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 21:37:13 2020
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 20:37:13 -0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <012f01d5fef7$569f5f00$03de1d00$@gmail.com>

Hi all,

is note-off-sent-as-zero-velocity-note-on a thing?

Who would?

Is there a particular instrument/controller that typically behaves like this?

Thanks,

Al

(who suspects that his MIDI code hasn?t thought of this)

 

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Sent: 20 March 2020 01:27
To: 'dougall' <dougalli at gmail.com>; eidorian at aladan.net
Cc: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

> Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

Yes I handle both.

Running status are ignored here,

And I consider both NOTE OFF and NOTE ON with zero velocity

As the end of a note.

 

 

De : dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com] 
Envoy? : 19 mars 2020 21:06
? : eidorian at aladan.net <mailto:eidorian at aladan.net> 
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> 
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

 

-d

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net <mailto:eidorian at aladan.net> > wrote:

Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:

20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400 instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the efficiency/optimisation of the code.

How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).

How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?

Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly whether or not that's the problem.

What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.

Cheers,
A.

---

 

 

On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

 

I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).

So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.

I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI bytes.

My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time 
when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard

all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes

I get stuck notes or unread ones..

Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR 
feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them

In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner

Later in the main loop.

 

-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?

-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?

-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples

  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code.

 

Did anybody use good C code available ?

JP

 

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> 

 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> 
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

_______________________________________________
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Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> 
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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 20 21:53:12 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 16:53:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <012f01d5fef7$569f5f00$03de1d00$@gmail.com>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <012f01d5fef7$569f5f00$03de1d00$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a701d5fef9$92a0a110$b7e1e330$@oricom.ca>

Cakewalk SONAR X3 does that when playing a MIDI file.

I observed that using the small MIDI sniffer app called MIDI-OX.

 

 

De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de ShedSynth
Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 16:37
? : 'dougall'
Cc : Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

Hi all,

is note-off-sent-as-zero-velocity-note-on a thing?

Who would?

Is there a particular instrument/controller that typically behaves like this?

Thanks,

Al

(who suspects that his MIDI code hasn?t thought of this)

 

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Sent: 20 March 2020 01:27
To: 'dougall' <dougalli at gmail.com>; eidorian at aladan.net
Cc: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

> Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

Yes I handle both.

Running status are ignored here,

And I consider both NOTE OFF and NOTE ON with zero velocity

As the end of a note.

 

 

De : dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com] 
Envoy? : 19 mars 2020 21:06
? : eidorian at aladan.net
Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..

 

Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?

 

-d

 

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:

Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:

20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400 instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the efficiency/optimisation of the code.

How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).

How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?

Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly whether or not that's the problem.

What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.

Cheers,
A.

---

 

 

On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:

 

I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).

So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.

I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI bytes.

My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time 
when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard

all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes

I get stuck notes or unread ones..

Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR 
feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them

In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner

Later in the main loop.

 

-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?

-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?

-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples

  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
  ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code.

 

Did anybody use good C code available ?

JP

 

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org

 

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

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From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Fri Mar 20 22:39:20 2020
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 22:39:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <012f01d5fef7$569f5f00$03de1d00$@gmail.com>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <012f01d5fef7$569f5f00$03de1d00$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <040f43e0-9577-bfa6-11a5-c1b871c6a930@gmx.de>


I only had a handful of devices so far,
but from those, from different manufacturers,  I started to wonder
whether actually any device uses the real note-off thing.
All I ever saw "out there" was note-on with zero velocity.


Am 20.03.2020 um 21:37 schrieb ShedSynth:
>
> Hi all,
>
> is note-off-sent-as-zero-velocity-note-on a thing?
>
> Who would?
>
> Is there a particular instrument/controller that typically behaves
> like this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Al
>
> (who suspects that his MIDI code hasn?t thought of this)
>
> *From:*Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> *On Behalf Of
> *Jean-Pierre Desrochers
> *Sent:* 20 March 2020 01:27
> *To:* 'dougall' <dougalli at gmail.com>; eidorian at aladan.net
> *Cc:* Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
>
> >Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity
> note on?
>
> Yes I handle both.
>
> Running status are ignored here,
>
> And I consider both NOTE OFF and NOTE ON with zero velocity
>
> As the end of a note.
>
> *De :*dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com]
> *Envoy? :* 19 mars 2020 21:06
> *? :* eidorian at aladan.net <mailto:eidorian at aladan.net>
> *Cc :* Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Objet :* Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
>
> Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity
> note on?
>
> -d
>
> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net
> <mailto:eidorian at aladan.net>> wrote:
>
>     Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some
>     analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:
>
>     20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400
>     instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of
>     instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the
>     efficiency/optimisation of the code.
>
>     How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other
>     processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like
>     I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and
>     maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output
>     when it changes).
>
>     How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure
>     the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?
>
>     Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the
>     interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm
>     for certainly whether or not that's the problem.
>
>     What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend
>     I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if
>     complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected
>     things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.
>
>     Cheers,
>     A.
>
>     ---
>
>     On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
>         I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).
>
>         So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I
>         had on hand.
>
>         I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the
>         incoming MIDI bytes.
>
>         My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI
>         channel (1-16) at the time
>         when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard
>
>         all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes
>
>         I get stuck notes or unread ones..
>
>         Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR
>         feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
>         The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them
>
>         In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and
>         treats them in a FIFO manner
>
>         Later in the main loop.
>
>         /-Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt
>         reading speed ?/
>
>         /-And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6
>         voices chords ?/
>
>         /-And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples/
>
>         /  for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement)
>         with no success..//
>         /?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations
>         of its inner code.//
>
>         Did anybody use good C code available ?
>
>         JP
>
>         Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Synth-diy mailing list
>         Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>         http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Synth-diy mailing list
>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


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From jason at redfish.net  Fri Mar 20 22:45:21 2020
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 14:45:21 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <040f43e0-9577-bfa6-11a5-c1b871c6a930@gmx.de>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <012f01d5fef7$569f5f00$03de1d00$@gmail.com>
 <040f43e0-9577-bfa6-11a5-c1b871c6a930@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <CALQanALK4=AfW_e=PZVQNCpVkwf7jfRQpRneEsJDXf3M=nsLBA@mail.gmail.com>

Keyboards that implement note-off (or release) velocity have to use
the note-off message.

Eg. Alesis Ion.

On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 2:43 PM <sleepy_dog at gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
> I only had a handful of devices so far,
> but from those, from different manufacturers,  I started to wonder whether actually any device uses the real note-off thing.
> All I ever saw "out there" was note-on with zero velocity.
>
>
> Am 20.03.2020 um 21:37 schrieb ShedSynth:
>
> Hi all,
>
> is note-off-sent-as-zero-velocity-note-on a thing?
>
> Who would?
>
> Is there a particular instrument/controller that typically behaves like this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Al
>
> (who suspects that his MIDI code hasn?t thought of this)
>
>
>
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Jean-Pierre Desrochers
> Sent: 20 March 2020 01:27
> To: 'dougall' <dougalli at gmail.com>; eidorian at aladan.net
> Cc: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
>
>
>
> > Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?
>
> Yes I handle both.
>
> Running status are ignored here,
>
> And I consider both NOTE OFF and NOTE ON with zero velocity
>
> As the end of a note.
>
>
>
>
>
> De : dougall [mailto:dougalli at gmail.com]
> Envoy? : 19 mars 2020 21:06
> ? : eidorian at aladan.net
> Cc : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
>
>
>
> Are you handling running status and note off sent as zero velocity note on?
>
>
>
> -d
>
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 11:55, <eidorian at aladan.net> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I don't have example code for you, but here is some analysis that I hope might help point you in the right direction:
>
> 20MHz / 31,250Hz => ~640 instructions per MIDI data bit, or 6,400 instructions per MIDI data byte.  That's quite a lot of instruction execution time between notes, so I'd be checking the efficiency/optimisation of the code.
>
> How long is it taking to update the analog outputs and do other processing?  If it's updating all 8 CVs via a "slow" protocol like I2C every time it loops then that might be taking a while, and maybe you need a different approach (i.e. only update a CV output when it changes).
>
> How have you implemented the FIFO?  Do you have locking to ensure the interrupt isn't writing to it while the main loop is updating it?
>
> Create a debug version that has checks on the FIFO size in the interrupt, and sets an LED on if it overflows, so you can confirm for certainly whether or not that's the problem.
>
> What I do (with 30+ years of programming experience) is pretend I'm the CPU, and "execute" the code in my head (or on paper if complex) in order to try to work out what unplanned or unexpected things might be happening to cause the problematic behaviour.
>
> Cheers,
> A.
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
> On 20-03-2020 11:14, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
>
>
> I?m working on a new polyphonic MIDI to CV module (8 voices).
>
> So far I did my tests with an old PIC16F887 @ 20Mhz micro I had on hand.
>
> I use a USART interrupt driven c function to ?catch? all the incoming MIDI bytes.
>
> My code is pretty fast, but still, since I only read one MIDI channel (1-16) at the time
> when I play very fast chords on an external keyboard
>
> all the notes are read in the incoming queue but sometimes
>
> I get stuck notes or unread ones..
>
> Same thing happens when playing MIDI files on Cakewalk SONAR
> feeding my prototype with  a MIDI cable.
> The interrupt function grabs each incoming byte and put them
>
> In a receive buffer of 32 bytes and the main () reads and treats them in a FIFO manner
>
> Later in the main loop.
>
>
>
> -Would a 32Mhz micro do a difference in the USART interrupt reading speed ?
>
> -And is 32 bytes long enough for the RxBuffer to handle a 6 voices chords ?
>
> -And finaly I checked the web for a ?decent? C code examples
>
>   for MIDI reception (MIDI Tx is much easier to implement) with no success..
>   ?Obscure? Arduino libraries all around with no explainations of its inner code.
>
>
>
> Did anybody use good C code available ?
>
> JP
>
>
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From synth at schmitzbits.de  Fri Mar 20 22:50:00 2020
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 22:50:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <040f43e0-9577-bfa6-11a5-c1b871c6a930@gmx.de>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <012f01d5fef7$569f5f00$03de1d00$@gmail.com>
 <040f43e0-9577-bfa6-11a5-c1b871c6a930@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <0c0e63ad-c10c-f7ae-e163-93e5f32bb65b@schmitzbits.de>

On 20.03.2020 22:39, sleepy_dog at gmx.de wrote:
> 
> I only had a handful of devices so far,
> but from those, from different manufacturers,? I started to wonder 
> whether actually any device uses the real note-off thing.
> All I ever saw "out there" was note-on with zero velocity.

I made the same observation. It is very common. After all it doesn't 
change the running status, and saves sending extra bytes.


Best,
  Ren?

--
synth at schmitzbits.de
http://schmitzbits.de


From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri Mar 20 23:48:37 2020
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 22:48:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <0c0e63ad-c10c-f7ae-e163-93e5f32bb65b@schmitzbits.de>
References: <000501d5fe4c$7d454940$77cfdbc0$@oricom.ca>
 <566b1c7e4860bbedb32a8a9ebfb69e7f@aladan.net>
 <CA+=-aKVguPxYDw8F2oOuw5VOy8FzjSWAtpt-joXZf2H=XTvPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601d5fe56$a4c16d00$ee444700$@oricom.ca>
 <012f01d5fef7$569f5f00$03de1d00$@gmail.com>
 <040f43e0-9577-bfa6-11a5-c1b871c6a930@gmx.de>
 <0c0e63ad-c10c-f7ae-e163-93e5f32bb65b@schmitzbits.de>
Message-ID: <E4060E23-6005-4FDF-85DC-F6CC0232611F@electricdruid.net>



> On 20 Mar 2020, at 21:50, Ren? Schmitz <synth at schmitzbits.de> wrote:
> 
> On 20.03.2020 22:39, sleepy_dog at gmx.de wrote:
>> I only had a handful of devices so far,
>> but from those, from different manufacturers,  I started to wonder whether actually any device uses the real note-off thing.
>> All I ever saw "out there" was note-on with zero velocity.
> 
> I made the same observation. It is very common. After all it doesn't change the running status, and saves sending extra bytes.

Agree. Unless you?re sending release velocity, there?s no point. It?s very common, to the point of being the typical behaviour.

Tom


==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================


From johnspeth at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 01:10:52 2020
From: johnspeth at yahoo.com (John Speth)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:10:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dc5e544b-eca8-ad5d-96e3-283a17af9b04@yahoo.com>

Neil's flowchart looks right. Here's another way to look at it from a 
state machine perspective. For me personally, coding from a flow chart 
leads to spaghetti code but a state machine translates to code much easier.

http://myplace.frontier.com/~jspeth/MIDI_FSM.pdf

Advice: There is little value and it's probably even detrimental to 
attempt a starting MIDI reception code body. You need to fully implement 
the MIDI reception and decoding parts. You can opt to disregard the 
actions that should be taken after an unambiguous MIDI message is 
received but you need to handle each byte.

JJS

On 3/20/2020 12:26 PM, Neil Johnson wrote:
> You mean like this:
>
> https://github.com/nejohnson/miby
>
> Look in the /doc folder for a PDF.
>
> Neil
>
> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 19:17, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net 
> <mailto:tom at electricdruid.net>> wrote:
>
>     I think a flowchart is a good idea, but I?d say that the voice
>     assignment part is a separate thing from the MIDI. Voice handling
>     is a whole area in its own right.
>
>     Tom
>
>     ==================
>     ? ? ? ?Electric Druid
>     Synth & Stompbox DIY
>     ==================
>
>>     On 20 Mar 2020, at 19:10, Jean-Pierre Desrochers
>>     <jpdesroc at oricom.ca <mailto:jpdesroc at oricom.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>     One idea came to my mind reading all your great comments:
>>     Would it be usefull for anybody in this DIY forum including
>>     newbies like me
>>     that someone would publish a 'starting' MIDI receiving flowchart
>>     of the basics from the incoming bytes to the actual final process
>>     of each received notes ?
>>     For example this helping flowchart would show the basic steps
>>     of first: the interrupt function (USART Rx flag test, RxBuffer[]
>>     updating, etc...)
>>     Then the behaviour of the main loop processing each received byte
>>     for let's say a polyphonic MIDI to CV 8 voices module ?
>>     And only for one MIDI channel for simplicity to understanding ?
>>     I did in the past a big flowchart for my MIDI to CV 6 voices module
>>     That I could 'squeeze'to keep only what's stated above.
>>     This could be a starting point for anybody who wants to 'correct'
>>     things
>>     and this way the DIY forum would have a 'list standardized' flowchart
>>     For anybody to use in the future..
>>     This would answer many design questions to come.
>>     Again, a small flowchart of how to receive MIDI bytes for only
>>     one MIDI channel
>>     And process for polyphonic use (8 voices).
>>     If this suggestion interests enough diyers I could put my cleaned out
>>     Flowchart on the list as a start..
>>     Or maybe I'll be the only guy to be interested in that
>>     Since many of you gurus have already been through these codings..
>>     JP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Synth-diy mailing list
>>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Synth-diy mailing list
>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From synth at schmitzbits.de  Sat Mar 21 02:10:17 2020
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2020 02:10:17 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <dc5e544b-eca8-ad5d-96e3-283a17af9b04@yahoo.com>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <dc5e544b-eca8-ad5d-96e3-283a17af9b04@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1bc26d4b-ca40-ea06-6051-cf0407fb903d@schmitzbits.de>

Well if none of you handles system common messages, I don't feel so bad.

Here is some code I wrote some years back, and cobbled something 
together to be run in a shell, so you can actually examine this without 
the hassle of a embedded environment or ISRs etc.

https://github.com/schmitzbits/terse_midi_parser

Best,
  Ren?

On 21.03.2020 01:10, John Speth via Synth-diy wrote:
> Neil's flowchart looks right. Here's another way to look at it from a 
> state machine perspective. For me personally, coding from a flow chart 
> leads to spaghetti code but a state machine translates to code much easier.
> 
> http://myplace.frontier.com/~jspeth/MIDI_FSM.pdf
> 
> Advice: There is little value and it's probably even detrimental to 
> attempt a starting MIDI reception code body. You need to fully implement 
> the MIDI reception and decoding parts. You can opt to disregard the 
> actions that should be taken after an unambiguous MIDI message is 
> received but you need to handle each byte.
> 
> JJS
> 
> On 3/20/2020 12:26 PM, Neil Johnson wrote:
>> You mean like this:
>>
>> https://github.com/nejohnson/miby
>>
>> Look in the /doc folder for a PDF.
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 19:17, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net 
>> <mailto:tom at electricdruid.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     I think a flowchart is a good idea, but I?d say that the voice
>>     assignment part is a separate thing from the MIDI. Voice handling
>>     is a whole area in its own right.
>>
>>     Tom
>>
>>     ==================
>>     ? ? ? ?Electric Druid
>>     Synth & Stompbox DIY
>>     ==================
>>
>>>     On 20 Mar 2020, at 19:10, Jean-Pierre Desrochers
>>>     <jpdesroc at oricom.ca <mailto:jpdesroc at oricom.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     One idea came to my mind reading all your great comments:
>>>     Would it be usefull for anybody in this DIY forum including
>>>     newbies like me
>>>     that someone would publish a 'starting' MIDI receiving flowchart
>>>     of the basics from the incoming bytes to the actual final process
>>>     of each received notes ?
>>>     For example this helping flowchart would show the basic steps
>>>     of first: the interrupt function (USART Rx flag test, RxBuffer[]
>>>     updating, etc...)
>>>     Then the behaviour of the main loop processing each received byte
>>>     for let's say a polyphonic MIDI to CV 8 voices module ?
>>>     And only for one MIDI channel for simplicity to understanding ?
>>>     I did in the past a big flowchart for my MIDI to CV 6 voices module
>>>     That I could 'squeeze'to keep only what's stated above.
>>>     This could be a starting point for anybody who wants to 'correct'
>>>     things
>>>     and this way the DIY forum would have a 'list standardized' flowchart
>>>     For anybody to use in the future..
>>>     This would answer many design questions to come.
>>>     Again, a small flowchart of how to receive MIDI bytes for only
>>>     one MIDI channel
>>>     And process for polyphonic use (8 voices).
>>>     If this suggestion interests enough diyers I could put my cleaned out
>>>     Flowchart on the list as a start..
>>>     Or maybe I'll be the only guy to be interested in that
>>>     Since many of you gurus have already been through these codings..
>>>     JP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     Synth-diy mailing list
>>>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Synth-diy mailing list
>>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


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http://schmitzbits.de


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sat Mar 21 02:32:44 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 21:32:44 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <1bc26d4b-ca40-ea06-6051-cf0407fb903d@schmitzbits.de>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <dc5e544b-eca8-ad5d-96e3-283a17af9b04@yahoo.com>
 <1bc26d4b-ca40-ea06-6051-cf0407fb903d@schmitzbits.de>
Message-ID: <00be01d5ff20$9f75c6f0$de6154d0$@oricom.ca>

Thanks Ren? !
Even though there is no Rx interrupt code
I will have a carefull look at your code with joy !

JP

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Ren? Schmitz
Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 21:10
? : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..

Well if none of you handles system common messages, I don't feel so bad.

Here is some code I wrote some years back, and cobbled something 
together to be run in a shell, so you can actually examine this without 
the hassle of a embedded environment or ISRs etc.

https://github.com/schmitzbits/terse_midi_parser

Best,
  Ren?

On 21.03.2020 01:10, John Speth via Synth-diy wrote:
> Neil's flowchart looks right. Here's another way to look at it from a 
> state machine perspective. For me personally, coding from a flow chart 
> leads to spaghetti code but a state machine translates to code much easier.
> 
> http://myplace.frontier.com/~jspeth/MIDI_FSM.pdf
> 
> Advice: There is little value and it's probably even detrimental to 
> attempt a starting MIDI reception code body. You need to fully implement 
> the MIDI reception and decoding parts. You can opt to disregard the 
> actions that should be taken after an unambiguous MIDI message is 
> received but you need to handle each byte.
> 
> JJS
> 
> On 3/20/2020 12:26 PM, Neil Johnson wrote:
>> You mean like this:
>>
>> https://github.com/nejohnson/miby
>>
>> Look in the /doc folder for a PDF.
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 19:17, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net 
>> <mailto:tom at electricdruid.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     I think a flowchart is a good idea, but I?d say that the voice
>>     assignment part is a separate thing from the MIDI. Voice handling
>>     is a whole area in its own right.
>>
>>     Tom
>>
>>     ==================
>>            Electric Druid
>>     Synth & Stompbox DIY
>>     ==================
>>
>>>     On 20 Mar 2020, at 19:10, Jean-Pierre Desrochers
>>>     <jpdesroc at oricom.ca <mailto:jpdesroc at oricom.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     One idea came to my mind reading all your great comments:
>>>     Would it be usefull for anybody in this DIY forum including
>>>     newbies like me
>>>     that someone would publish a 'starting' MIDI receiving flowchart
>>>     of the basics from the incoming bytes to the actual final process
>>>     of each received notes ?
>>>     For example this helping flowchart would show the basic steps
>>>     of first: the interrupt function (USART Rx flag test, RxBuffer[]
>>>     updating, etc...)
>>>     Then the behaviour of the main loop processing each received byte
>>>     for let's say a polyphonic MIDI to CV 8 voices module ?
>>>     And only for one MIDI channel for simplicity to understanding ?
>>>     I did in the past a big flowchart for my MIDI to CV 6 voices module
>>>     That I could 'squeeze'to keep only what's stated above.
>>>     This could be a starting point for anybody who wants to 'correct'
>>>     things
>>>     and this way the DIY forum would have a 'list standardized' flowchart
>>>     For anybody to use in the future..
>>>     This would answer many design questions to come.
>>>     Again, a small flowchart of how to receive MIDI bytes for only
>>>     one MIDI channel
>>>     And process for polyphonic use (8 voices).
>>>     If this suggestion interests enough diyers I could put my cleaned out
>>>     Flowchart on the list as a start..
>>>     Or maybe I'll be the only guy to be interested in that
>>>     Since many of you gurus have already been through these codings..
>>>     JP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     Synth-diy mailing list
>>>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Synth-diy mailing list
>>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 


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--
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http://schmitzbits.de
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 12:42:56 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2020 11:42:56 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <008801d5feee$9d5b5e20$d8121a60$@oricom.ca>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <008801d5feee$9d5b5e20$d8121a60$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxLoytrTLGRi0jafdXYj2K=9j2TZe=8FA6c87H8GFpR43A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 19:34, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
wrote:

> Yes, but It?s incomplete about the received notes and how to process
>
> Them for 8 voices..
>
>
Indeed, and it was designed that way.  How you handle one note, two notes,
four notes, eight notes, sixteen notes, and so on, is a matter for your
specific device, not the MIDI standard.  Which note priority system do you
want?  How do you handle chords?  What about voice allocation?  And so on.

Neil
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 22:49:24 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2020 21:49:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
In-Reply-To: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
References: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxJ=0efxaBkJgKOGCqn_hFDmt3v6GSd5zGaZ-GGnxrbH8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ben,

> I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.

> https://drive.google.com/file/d/19rlz3_bgVclgZm5fZo7isq43QrmVGfst/view?usp=sharing

I'm still not understanding what exactly you are looking for?  That
circuit is a poor simulation setup so I am not at all surprised you're
getting some perfect answers.

If you just want to buffer a differential signal then just use two
opamps.  If you want to remove any common mode signal you need a
proper diff.amp and a test bench that will show you what the simulated
CMRR is (yours won't).

If you can specify what you want then you might get some more useful advice.

Cheers
Neil



From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Mon Mar 23 23:46:07 2020
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 22:46:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder
Message-ID: <195c0c2e-6d3b-be5c-2797-c6cdbb1028f3@bugbrand.co.uk>

Hi all,

I just got an Electrix Repeater - nice looper, however it seems like the 
tempo encoder might have an annoying fault.. It is meant to sense fast 
movements & adjust accordingly, but it doesn't - eg. for pitch you have 
to slowly scroll all the way down cent by cent..
I wondered if anyone else had had this problem before & whether there is 
a replacement part number?

Appreciate any help - cheers,
Tom

-- 
BugBrand LTD
UK company No. 07199808
VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
BRISTOL BS1 3SB
United Kingdom
www.bugbrand.co.uk


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From gaslampmusehog at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 24 00:06:58 2020
From: gaslampmusehog at yahoo.com (Joshua Shroyer)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 16:06:58 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder
In-Reply-To: <195c0c2e-6d3b-be5c-2797-c6cdbb1028f3@bugbrand.co.uk>
References: <195c0c2e-6d3b-be5c-2797-c6cdbb1028f3@bugbrand.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9A540509-7834-4C5E-8456-BE9EF61DA160@yahoo.com>

Maybe not helpful, but I own 4 and have never encountered this issue. 

Joshua

> On Mar 23, 2020, at 3:50 PM, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi all,
> 
> I just got an Electrix Repeater - nice looper, however it seems like the tempo encoder might have an annoying fault.. It is meant to sense fast movements & adjust accordingly, but it doesn't - eg. for pitch you have to slowly scroll all the way down cent by cent..
> I wondered if anyone else had had this problem before & whether there is a replacement part number?
> 
> Appreciate any help - cheers,
> Tom
> 
> -- 
> BugBrand LTD
> UK company No. 07199808
> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
> 1 Ninetree Hill
> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
> United Kingdom
> www.bugbrand.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Tue Mar 24 00:13:57 2020
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 23:13:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder
In-Reply-To: <9A540509-7834-4C5E-8456-BE9EF61DA160@yahoo.com>
References: <195c0c2e-6d3b-be5c-2797-c6cdbb1028f3@bugbrand.co.uk>,
 <9A540509-7834-4C5E-8456-BE9EF61DA160@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR03MB511886B1D2C7F69C76B2A54A94F00@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Hi!

Maybe you have an old software version... there have been upgrades...
Read about it here: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/electrix-repeater-software-upgrade.1049182/

Ciao
Peter

http://www.ullrich.at.tt


________________________________________
Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Joshua Shroyer via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2020 00:06
An: Tom Bugs
Cc: AH; *SYNTH DIY
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder

Maybe not helpful, but I own 4 and have never encountered this issue.

Joshua

> On Mar 23, 2020, at 3:50 PM, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?Hi all,
>
> I just got an Electrix Repeater - nice looper, however it seems like the tempo encoder might have an annoying fault.. It is meant to sense fast movements & adjust accordingly, but it doesn't - eg. for pitch you have to slowly scroll all the way down cent by cent..
> I wondered if anyone else had had this problem before & whether there is a replacement part number?
>
> Appreciate any help - cheers,
> Tom
>
> --
> BugBrand LTD
> UK company No. 07199808
> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
> 1 Ninetree Hill
> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
> United Kingdom
> www.bugbrand.co.uk
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


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The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his employees or an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately.




From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Tue Mar 24 00:26:39 2020
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 23:26:39 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR03MB511886B1D2C7F69C76B2A54A94F00@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <195c0c2e-6d3b-be5c-2797-c6cdbb1028f3@bugbrand.co.uk>,
 <9A540509-7834-4C5E-8456-BE9EF61DA160@yahoo.com>,
 <VI1PR03MB511886B1D2C7F69C76B2A54A94F00@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR03MB5118F8E361DBEE07F5D6629994F00@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

You can find the last version 2.1 here at Florian Anwanders site:
http://www.florian-anwander.de/electrix_repeater/

Ciao
Peter

http://www.ullrich.at.tt

________________________________________
Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Ullrich Peter <Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2020 00:13
An: Tom Bugs; Joshua Shroyer
Cc: AH; *SYNTH DIY
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder

Hi!

Maybe you have an old software version... there have been upgrades...
Read about it here: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/electrix-repeater-software-upgrade.1049182/

Ciao
Peter

http://www.ullrich.at.tt


________________________________________
Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Joshua Shroyer via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2020 00:06
An: Tom Bugs
Cc: AH; *SYNTH DIY
Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder

Maybe not helpful, but I own 4 and have never encountered this issue.

Joshua

> On Mar 23, 2020, at 3:50 PM, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?Hi all,
>
> I just got an Electrix Repeater - nice looper, however it seems like the tempo encoder might have an annoying fault.. It is meant to sense fast movements & adjust accordingly, but it doesn't - eg. for pitch you have to slowly scroll all the way down cent by cent..
> I wondered if anyone else had had this problem before & whether there is a replacement part number?
>
> Appreciate any help - cheers,
> Tom
>
> --
> BugBrand LTD
> UK company No. 07199808
> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
> 1 Ninetree Hill
> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
> United Kingdom
> www.bugbrand.co.uk
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


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The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his employees or an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately.


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From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Tue Mar 24 09:25:00 2020
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:25:00 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR03MB5118F8E361DBEE07F5D6629994F00@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <195c0c2e-6d3b-be5c-2797-c6cdbb1028f3@bugbrand.co.uk>
 <9A540509-7834-4C5E-8456-BE9EF61DA160@yahoo.com>
 <VI1PR03MB511886B1D2C7F69C76B2A54A94F00@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <VI1PR03MB5118F8E361DBEE07F5D6629994F00@VI1PR03MB5118.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <6b00ed13-7018-599e-4ed4-83246d301c53@bugbrand.co.uk>

Thanks - having played more, I think I might have been mistaken 
(following the orig manual...) - turns out the coarse tune control is 
the loop encoder!
So think I was mistaken believing there was an issue!
Yes, Florian's site - great as always - will do the v.2.1 sometime!
Cheers all & stay safe in these crazy times.
Tom

On 23/03/2020 23:26, Ullrich Peter wrote:
> You can find the last version 2.1 here at Florian Anwanders site:
> http://www.florian-anwander.de/electrix_repeater/
>
> Ciao
> Peter
>
> http://www.ullrich.at.tt
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Ullrich Peter <Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net>
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2020 00:13
> An: Tom Bugs; Joshua Shroyer
> Cc: AH; *SYNTH DIY
> Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder
>
> Hi!
>
> Maybe you have an old software version... there have been upgrades...
> Read about it here: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/electrix-repeater-software-upgrade.1049182/
>
> Ciao
> Peter
>
> http://www.ullrich.at.tt
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Joshua Shroyer via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. M?rz 2020 00:06
> An: Tom Bugs
> Cc: AH; *SYNTH DIY
> Betreff: Re: [sdiy] Electrix Repeater Encoder
>
> Maybe not helpful, but I own 4 and have never encountered this issue.
>
> Joshua
>
>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 3:50 PM, Tom Bugs <admin at bugbrand.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Hi all,
>>
>> I just got an Electrix Repeater - nice looper, however it seems like the tempo encoder might have an annoying fault.. It is meant to sense fast movements & adjust accordingly, but it doesn't - eg. for pitch you have to slowly scroll all the way down cent by cent..
>> I wondered if anyone else had had this problem before & whether there is a replacement part number?
>>
>> Appreciate any help - cheers,
>> Tom
>>
>> --
>> BugBrand LTD
>> UK company No. 07199808
>> VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
>> 1 Ninetree Hill
>> BRISTOL BS1 3SB
>> United Kingdom
>> www.bugbrand.co.uk
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
>
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his employees or an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
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VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
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United Kingdom
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From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 19:23:50 2020
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 14:23:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJ=0efxaBkJgKOGCqn_hFDmt3v6GSd5zGaZ-GGnxrbH8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E18F7609-42C6-48C6-9BC6-F6BC22247ABA@gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxJ=0efxaBkJgKOGCqn_hFDmt3v6GSd5zGaZ-GGnxrbH8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UD-KO0X=FKpH=4vzZTr4L_aaLhw=2ogW6GRnKGnX8J7nQ@mail.gmail.com>

I was also waiting on customer specs for his differential driver.

Audio?  Digital multiplex'd audio?  Video?  Network?  Satellite?
What terminating impedance to drive?  600ohm?  75ohm?
What voltage levels?  3V for mobile?  10V for communication?  dBm
signal levels?  Unipolar or bipolar?
Current loop?

All of these drive the design but no single circuit or IC works for
every application.

Until the customer provides the specs, there's not much point in discussing it.

MC

On 3/21/20, Neil Johnson <neil.johnson71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ben,
>
>> I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger
>> synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up
>> with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.
>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/19rlz3_bgVclgZm5fZo7isq43QrmVGfst/view?usp=sharing
>
> I'm still not understanding what exactly you are looking for?  That
> circuit is a poor simulation setup so I am not at all surprised you're
> getting some perfect answers.
>
> If you just want to buffer a differential signal then just use two
> opamps.  If you want to remove any common mode signal you need a
> proper diff.amp and a test bench that will show you what the simulated
> CMRR is (yours won't).
>
> If you can specify what you want then you might get some more useful advice.
>
> Cheers
> Neil
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>



From benalog1977 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 02:50:46 2020
From: benalog1977 at gmail.com (Ben Riggs)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 09:50:46 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJ=0efxaBkJgKOGCqn_hFDmt3v6GSd5zGaZ-GGnxrbH8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxJ=0efxaBkJgKOGCqn_hFDmt3v6GSd5zGaZ-GGnxrbH8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A869A057-177A-44E0-9852-1625036C62C3@gmail.com>

Hi Neil,

It is to act as a buffer, hiZ in low Z out and unity gain. Yeah, 2 basic voltage followers would do it, but I expect the preceding circuit won?t be outputting an equal amplitude signal with ref to 0V, but I expect the driver to output to be equal and opposite. If that makes sense.

I apologise for the late response. With all the crazy shit going on in the world, I spent 3 days travelling to get out of India before they closed the airports (I got to Delhi in time for the last flight to Sydney on Saturday). I?m now in isolation in Perth, I didn?t quite get home though - I guess this is my new home for the next few months.

Regards,
Ben Riggs.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 22 Mar 2020, at 5:49 am, Neil Johnson <neil.johnson71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Ben,
> 
>> I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.
> 
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/19rlz3_bgVclgZm5fZo7isq43QrmVGfst/view?usp=sharing
> 
> I'm still not understanding what exactly you are looking for?  That
> circuit is a poor simulation setup so I am not at all surprised you're
> getting some perfect answers.
> 
> If you just want to buffer a differential signal then just use two
> opamps.  If you want to remove any common mode signal you need a
> proper diff.amp and a test bench that will show you what the simulated
> CMRR is (yours won't).
> 
> If you can specify what you want then you might get some more useful advice.
> 
> Cheers
> Neil



From jdec at mindspring.com  Wed Mar 25 03:27:41 2020
From: jdec at mindspring.com (BrightBoy)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:27:41 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
Message-ID: <2091441770.15488.1585103261365@wamui-napoleon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

A balanced circuit does NOT require each leg to be equal and opposite
to reject noise.

Time to let Bill Whitlock of Jensen Transformers take you to school:

https://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Design_of_High-Performance_Balanced_Audio_Interfaces.pdf

There are many other papers that Bill has written (many published by the AES)
that you should research (they aren't hard to find with Google)

BB

-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Riggs <benalog1977 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Mar 24, 2020 9:50 PM
>To: Neil Johnson <neil.johnson71 at gmail.com>
>Cc: SDIY List <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>Subject: Re: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
>
>Hi Neil,
>
>It is to act as a buffer, hiZ in low Z out and unity gain. Yeah, 2 basic voltage followers would do it, but I expect the preceding circuit won?t be outputting an equal amplitude signal with ref to 0V, but I expect the driver to output to be equal and opposite. If that makes sense.
>
>I apologise for the late response. With all the crazy shit going on in the world, I spent 3 days travelling to get out of India before they closed the airports (I got to Delhi in time for the last flight to Sydney on Saturday). I?m now in isolation in Perth, I didn?t quite get home though - I guess this is my new home for the next few months.
>
>Regards,
>Ben Riggs.
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 22 Mar 2020, at 5:49 am, Neil Johnson <neil.johnson71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Hi Ben,
>> 
>>> I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.
>> 
>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/19rlz3_bgVclgZm5fZo7isq43QrmVGfst/view?usp=sharing
>> 
>> I'm still not understanding what exactly you are looking for?  That
>> circuit is a poor simulation setup so I am not at all surprised you're
>> getting some perfect answers.
>> 
>> If you just want to buffer a differential signal then just use two
>> opamps.  If you want to remove any common mode signal you need a
>> proper diff.amp and a test bench that will show you what the simulated
>> CMRR is (yours won't).
>> 
>> If you can specify what you want then you might get some more useful advice.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Neil
>
>_______________________________________________
>Synth-diy mailing list
>Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From benalog1977 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 06:39:15 2020
From: benalog1977 at gmail.com (Ben Riggs)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 13:39:15 +0800
Subject: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
In-Reply-To: <2091441770.15488.1585103261365@wamui-napoleon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2091441770.15488.1585103261365@wamui-napoleon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <75E621CE-5285-4C00-91AB-A9006E4B393E@gmail.com>

It?s not for noise reduction. It?s a buffer in a synth circuit where I need equal and opposite output signals.

Ben.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Mar 2020, at 10:29 am, BrightBoy <jdec at mindspring.com> wrote:
> 
> ?A balanced circuit does NOT require each leg to be equal and opposite
> to reject noise.
> 
> Time to let Bill Whitlock of Jensen Transformers take you to school:
> 
> https://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Design_of_High-Performance_Balanced_Audio_Interfaces.pdf
> 
> There are many other papers that Bill has written (many published by the AES)
> that you should research (they aren't hard to find with Google)
> 
> BB
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Riggs <benalog1977 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Mar 24, 2020 9:50 PM
>> To: Neil Johnson <neil.johnson71 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: SDIY List <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Unity Gain Diff-in Diff-out driver
>> 
>> Hi Neil,
>> 
>> It is to act as a buffer, hiZ in low Z out and unity gain. Yeah, 2 basic voltage followers would do it, but I expect the preceding circuit won?t be outputting an equal amplitude signal with ref to 0V, but I expect the driver to output to be equal and opposite. If that makes sense.
>> 
>> I apologise for the late response. With all the crazy shit going on in the world, I spent 3 days travelling to get out of India before they closed the airports (I got to Delhi in time for the last flight to Sydney on Saturday). I?m now in isolation in Perth, I didn?t quite get home though - I guess this is my new home for the next few months.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Ben Riggs.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On 22 Mar 2020, at 5:49 am, Neil Johnson <neil.johnson71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Hi Ben,
>>> 
>>>> I?ve been playing with differential driver circuits as part of a larger synth circuit I?m working on to seek a simple solution, what I?ve come up with just seems wrong but the sim has it working exactly as I need.
>>> 
>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/19rlz3_bgVclgZm5fZo7isq43QrmVGfst/view?usp=sharing
>>> 
>>> I'm still not understanding what exactly you are looking for?  That
>>> circuit is a poor simulation setup so I am not at all surprised you're
>>> getting some perfect answers.
>>> 
>>> If you just want to buffer a differential signal then just use two
>>> opamps.  If you want to remove any common mode signal you need a
>>> proper diff.amp and a test bench that will show you what the simulated
>>> CMRR is (yours won't).
>>> 
>>> If you can specify what you want then you might get some more useful advice.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> Neil
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed Mar 25 15:08:15 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 10:08:15 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip VCF-VCA & ADSR alternative in 2020 ??
Message-ID: <000001d602ae$d42f19f0$7c8d4dd0$@oricom.ca>

Hi list,

 

Is there any available IC today that combines VCF, VCA & ADSR features

In a single chip ?

I know the CEM3394 (VCO, VCF, VCA)

And the CEM3391 (VCF, VCA, ADSR) have been out there

for a long period but are they still available ?

And if not does-it exist alternatives ?

I?m designing a 6 voices polyphonic module the would have

-6 CV?s inputs (1v/oct)

-6 VCO audio inputs (VCO?s waves from other modules)

-6 Gate inputs to drive the new module ADSR?s .

 

So this new module would be a 6 voices poly synth without VCO?s.

The CEM3391 could be a nice IC for the 6  I?d need here..

 

A good choice ? Or not ?

BTW I?m trying to avoid doing a complete synth circuit out of

separate VCF, VCA and ADSR chips. Too many components..

 

JP

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From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 15:23:38 2020
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 14:23:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip VCF-VCA & ADSR alternative in 2020 ??
In-Reply-To: <000001d602ae$d42f19f0$7c8d4dd0$@oricom.ca>
References: <000001d602ae$d42f19f0$7c8d4dd0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <9f8ec73b-d7b0-223d-ea76-4dafc906a383@bugbrand.co.uk>

Check Alfa for the AS3394: http://www.alfarzpp.lv/eng/sc/application.php

On 25/03/2020 14:08, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
> Hi list,
>
> Is there any available IC today that combines VCF, VCA & ADSR features
>
> In a single chip ?
>
> I know the CEM3394 (VCO, VCF, VCA)
>
> And the CEM3391 (VCF, VCA, ADSR) have been out there
>
> for a long period but are they still available ?
>
> And if not does-it exist alternatives ?
>
> I?m designing a 6 voices polyphonic module the would have
>
> -6 CV?s inputs (1v/oct)
>
> -6 VCO audio inputs (VCO?s waves from other modules)
>
> -6 Gate inputs to drive the new module ADSR?s .
>
> So this new module would be a 6 voices poly synth without VCO?s.
>
> The CEM3391 could be a nice IC for the 6 ?I?d need here..
>
> A good choice ? Or not ?
>
> BTW I?m trying to avoid doing a complete synth circuit out of
>
> separate VCF, VCA and ADSR chips. Too many components..
>
> JP
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

-- 
BugBrand LTD
UK company No. 07199808
VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
BRISTOL BS1 3SB
United Kingdom
www.bugbrand.co.uk



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
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From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed Mar 25 16:35:52 2020
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 15:35:52 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Single chip VCF-VCA & ADSR alternative in 2020 ??
In-Reply-To: <000001d602ae$d42f19f0$7c8d4dd0$@oricom.ca>
References: <000001d602ae$d42f19f0$7c8d4dd0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <20FDF639-35A2-4DC1-B341-243FBEC814B3@electricdruid.net>

Alfa also have the AS3372E, which includes everything except the envelopes: Mixer VCAs, Filter, output VCA, and additionally panning VCAs (they weren?t in the original chip).

HTH,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================

> On 25 Mar 2020, at 14:08, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
>  
> Is there any available IC today that combines VCF, VCA & ADSR features
> In a single chip ?
> I know the CEM3394 (VCO, VCF, VCA)
> And the CEM3391 (VCF, VCA, ADSR) have been out there
> for a long period but are they still available ?
> And if not does-it exist alternatives ?
> I?m designing a 6 voices polyphonic module the would have
> -6 CV?s inputs (1v/oct)
> -6 VCO audio inputs (VCO?s waves from other modules)
> -6 Gate inputs to drive the new module ADSR?s .
>  
> So this new module would be a 6 voices poly synth without VCO?s.
> The CEM3391 could be a nice IC for the 6  I?d need here..
>  
> A good choice ? Or not ?
> BTW I?m trying to avoid doing a complete synth circuit out of
> separate VCF, VCA and ADSR chips. Too many components..
>  
> JP
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
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From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Wed Mar 25 20:27:34 2020
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2020 20:27:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Renode - ARM Cortex M - debugging & testing via Emulation
In-Reply-To: <000001d602ae$d42f19f0$7c8d4dd0$@oricom.ca>
References: <000001d602ae$d42f19f0$7c8d4dd0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <bd419011-bfca-7fb2-902b-dc622ca4012d@gmx.de>


That sounds useful. Especially for automatted test suites, not having to
write them into a flash program memory on real hardware.

Example with an STM32.

https://interrupt.memfault.com/blog/intro-to-renode





From mars at pingdynasty.com  Thu Mar 26 11:26:20 2020
From: mars at pingdynasty.com (Martin Klang)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2020 11:26:20 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Renode - ARM Cortex M - debugging & testing via Emulation
In-Reply-To: <bd419011-bfca-7fb2-902b-dc622ca4012d@gmx.de>
References: <000001d602ae$d42f19f0$7c8d4dd0$@oricom.ca>
 <bd419011-bfca-7fb2-902b-dc622ca4012d@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <425fcd56-4bb9-9c15-1696-5b7bfae3a789@pingdynasty.com>

Nice. I've attempted QEMU in the past but always ended up putting much 
more time into emulation than what I saved on development.

Emulating the core is really the easy bit, it gets tricky when you start 
adding in peripherals. If your MCU is communicating with sophisticated 
parts like a codec, OLED screen, QSPI flash memory then creating all 
that scaffolding becomes a development project in itself.

Great to see that there are CPU and board definitions that cover quite a 
few peripherals: UART, SPI, CAN, DMA, EXTI, even ethernet... Don't see 
any timers there though.

And they have some sort of USB support, though I don't quite understand 
how it links up with the MCU implementation, since afaiu that is 
manufacturer-specific.

Now if only there was a tried-and-tested library of emulations for lots 
of commonly used parts! Time to make one?


Martin


On 25/03/2020 20:27, sleepy_dog at gmx.de wrote:
>
> That sounds useful. Especially for automatted test suites, not having to
> write them into a flash program memory on real hardware.
>
> Example with an STM32.
>
> https://interrupt.memfault.com/blog/intro-to-renode
>
>


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri Mar 27 20:05:18 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 15:05:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI 1.0 interrupt Rx implementation..
Message-ID: <001c01d6046a$a868c010$f93a4030$@oricom.ca>

Still in my quest to understand the best way to intercept

specific Incoming bytes in a MIDI controlled device I carefully read

the actual Complete MIDI 1.0 Detailed Specification.

Mostly all the channel voice messages documentation

that explains Status bytes from 0x8n (Note-ON) to 0xEn (Pitch Bend).

The MIDI specs shows a flowchart on page 93 (A-3)

describing an ?Interrupt driven routine? that grabs incoming bytes

and ?sorts? them in a FIFO memory to be later processed.

This flowchart is attached here. But I found something not clear

In the middle of this flowchart and highlighted it in yellow.

I?d be very glad if you could tell if these highlighted boxes

were correct or should be corrected with my marks ( >= , >, ??)

 

Many thanks.

JP

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From anpitkam at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 29 15:29:27 2020
From: anpitkam at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?B?QW50dGkgUGl0a8OkbcOka2k=?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 13:29:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning scratchy pots
In-Reply-To: <AM6PR0702MB35600A94B106440FAF93B1A9CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM6PR0702MB35605B8A53DA3E425BCB0218CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
 <AM6PR0702MB35600A94B106440FAF93B1A9CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0702MB356355EC31195F90CE061644CACA0@HE1PR0702MB3563.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all,

I'm replying to this thread I started a while ago. I got some great tips, thanks! However, to find the definitive answer to my question below, I decided to ask three major potentiometer manufacturers on how to clean a scratchy pot properly and whether lube is needed. One of them replied. I'm posting this here because it might be interesting to some of you. Below is my original question to the manufacturers and below that is the one reply I got. I find it to be very useful information!

The question:

"I?m trying to find information on how to properly fix a scratchy potentiometer that is used in audio equipment (e.g. synthesizer). All I?ve found are contradictory opinions on how to do it, but I can?t seem to find a definitive answer. Thus, I got the idea of asking a reputable potentiometer manufacturer for some tips. Although my question concerns potentiometers generally and not just your products, I would appreciate any insight on this.

So if I was to fix a scratchy audio potentiometer, I suppose I should dismantle it for proper cleaning? I was thinking of using isoprophyl alcohol to clean the carbon tracks, is this a good idea? Should I add lubrification to the carbon tracks after cleaning or leave them dry? If lubrification is a good idea, could you tell me which type to use and which type to avoid?"

The answer:

"In regards to our potentiometer cleaning process, my application engineer stated the following:

We would only recommend using isopropyl alcohol to clean the POTS. Most of our pots come with a small amount of grease applied, we tend to use a NLGI #2 grease. The customer might be able to find something similar. Be sure to avoid any type of lubricant that can be conductive."

Hope you find this information useful!

Best regards and take care in these uncertain times,
Antti

________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Antti Pitk?m?ki <anpitkam at hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 2:10 PM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning scratchy pots

Hi,

I'm about to clean a scratchy volume pot of my Korg Polysix. I was thinking of dismantling the pot and using isoprophyl alcohol to clean the wiper contacts. However, am I also supposed to add some very small amount of lubricant (such as PRF Kontakt 7-78) to the contacts after cleaning or would it be better to leave it dry?

Also, in general do new factory fresh pots have lubricant on the contacts or are they dry?

I'm asking these questions because no amount of googling seems to give a definite answer, but if there is an answer somewhere, it's in this group ?

Thanks in advance,
Antti
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 16:09:12 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 15:09:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning scratchy pots
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0702MB356355EC31195F90CE061644CACA0@HE1PR0702MB3563.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM6PR0702MB35605B8A53DA3E425BCB0218CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM6PR0702MB35600A94B106440FAF93B1A9CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0702MB356355EC31195F90CE061644CACA0@HE1PR0702MB3563.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxK0Ebn8r7yzAkX+PReDQQ+TfuOWb8bvBhrLG6c=rx8zLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Antti,

Thanks. If you don't mind can you say which company replied?

Cheers,
Neil

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020, 14:32 Antti Pitk?m?ki, <anpitkam at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm replying to this thread I started a while ago. I got some great tips,
> thanks! However, to find the definitive answer to my question below, I
> decided to ask three major potentiometer manufacturers on how to clean a
> scratchy pot properly and whether lube is needed. One of them replied. I'm
> posting this here because it might be interesting to some of you. Below is
> my original question to the manufacturers and below that is the one reply I
> got. I find it to be very useful information!
>
> The question:
>
> "I?m trying to find information on how to properly fix a scratchy
> potentiometer that is used in audio equipment (e.g. synthesizer). All I?ve
> found are contradictory opinions on how to do it, but I can?t seem to find
> a definitive answer. Thus, I got the idea of asking a reputable
> potentiometer manufacturer for some tips. Although my question concerns
> potentiometers generally and not just your products, I would appreciate any
> insight on this.
>
> So if I was to fix a scratchy audio potentiometer, I suppose I should
> dismantle it for proper cleaning? I was thinking of using isoprophyl
> alcohol to clean the carbon tracks, is this a good idea? Should I add
> lubrification to the carbon tracks after cleaning or leave them dry? If
> lubrification is a good idea, could you tell me which type to use and which
> type to avoid?"
>
> The answer:
>
> "In regards to our potentiometer cleaning process, my application engineer
> stated the following:
>
> We would only recommend using isopropyl alcohol to clean the POTS. Most of
> our pots come with a small amount of grease applied, we tend to use a NLGI
> #2 grease. The customer might be able to find something similar. Be sure to
> avoid any type of lubricant that can be conductive."
>
> Hope you find this information useful!
>
> Best regards and take care in these uncertain times,
> Antti
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Antti
> Pitk?m?ki <anpitkam at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 5, 2020 2:10 PM
> *To:* synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Subject:* [sdiy] Cleaning scratchy pots
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm about to clean a scratchy volume pot of my Korg Polysix. I was
> thinking of dismantling the pot and using isoprophyl alcohol to clean the
> wiper contacts. However, am I also supposed to add some very small amount
> of lubricant (such as PRF Kontakt 7-78) to the contacts after cleaning or
> would it be better to leave it dry?
>
> Also, in general do new factory fresh pots have lubricant on the contacts
> or are they dry?
>
> I'm asking these questions because no amount of googling seems to give a
> definite answer, but if there is an answer somewhere, it's in this group
> ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Antti
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
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From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 05:12:34 2020
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 23:12:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning scratchy pots
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxK0Ebn8r7yzAkX+PReDQQ+TfuOWb8bvBhrLG6c=rx8zLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AM6PR0702MB35605B8A53DA3E425BCB0218CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM6PR0702MB35600A94B106440FAF93B1A9CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0702MB356355EC31195F90CE061644CACA0@HE1PR0702MB3563.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CACZGMxK0Ebn8r7yzAkX+PReDQQ+TfuOWb8bvBhrLG6c=rx8zLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UDA931SC7JxaBxuqYCPSk8o7BCaQP4viYVNcHRkZ5g+Qg@mail.gmail.com>

Isopropyl alcohol leaves behind a film so they did not give you the
best answer.  Denatured alcohol is better.

You also want a cleaning solvent that evaporates so its remnants do
not attract dirt and debris.

Even then, the cleaning process isn't the same for all pots.

Cermet?  Wirewound?  Carbon?

MC

On 3/29/20, Neil Johnson <neil.johnson71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Antti,
>
> Thanks. If you don't mind can you say which company replied?
>
> Cheers,
> Neil
>
> On Sun, 29 Mar 2020, 14:32 Antti Pitk?m?ki, <anpitkam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm replying to this thread I started a while ago. I got some great tips,
>> thanks! However, to find the definitive answer to my question below, I
>> decided to ask three major potentiometer manufacturers on how to clean a
>> scratchy pot properly and whether lube is needed. One of them replied.
>> I'm
>> posting this here because it might be interesting to some of you. Below
>> is
>> my original question to the manufacturers and below that is the one reply
>> I
>> got. I find it to be very useful information!
>>
>> The question:
>>
>> "I?m trying to find information on how to properly fix a scratchy
>> potentiometer that is used in audio equipment (e.g. synthesizer). All
>> I?ve
>> found are contradictory opinions on how to do it, but I can?t seem to
>> find
>> a definitive answer. Thus, I got the idea of asking a reputable
>> potentiometer manufacturer for some tips. Although my question concerns
>> potentiometers generally and not just your products, I would appreciate
>> any
>> insight on this.
>>
>> So if I was to fix a scratchy audio potentiometer, I suppose I should
>> dismantle it for proper cleaning? I was thinking of using isoprophyl
>> alcohol to clean the carbon tracks, is this a good idea? Should I add
>> lubrification to the carbon tracks after cleaning or leave them dry? If
>> lubrification is a good idea, could you tell me which type to use and
>> which
>> type to avoid?"
>>
>> The answer:
>>
>> "In regards to our potentiometer cleaning process, my application
>> engineer
>> stated the following:
>>
>> We would only recommend using isopropyl alcohol to clean the POTS. Most
>> of
>> our pots come with a small amount of grease applied, we tend to use a
>> NLGI
>> #2 grease. The customer might be able to find something similar. Be sure
>> to
>> avoid any type of lubricant that can be conductive."
>>
>> Hope you find this information useful!
>>
>> Best regards and take care in these uncertain times,
>> Antti
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of Antti
>> Pitk?m?ki <anpitkam at hotmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 5, 2020 2:10 PM
>> *To:* synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> *Subject:* [sdiy] Cleaning scratchy pots
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm about to clean a scratchy volume pot of my Korg Polysix. I was
>> thinking of dismantling the pot and using isoprophyl alcohol to clean the
>> wiper contacts. However, am I also supposed to add some very small amount
>> of lubricant (such as PRF Kontakt 7-78) to the contacts after cleaning or
>> would it be better to leave it dry?
>>
>> Also, in general do new factory fresh pots have lubricant on the contacts
>> or are they dry?
>>
>> I'm asking these questions because no amount of googling seems to give a
>> definite answer, but if there is an answer somewhere, it's in this group
>> ?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Antti
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Mon Mar 30 10:28:11 2020
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 10:28:11 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning scratchy pots
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UDA931SC7JxaBxuqYCPSk8o7BCaQP4viYVNcHRkZ5g+Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AM6PR0702MB35605B8A53DA3E425BCB0218CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM6PR0702MB35600A94B106440FAF93B1A9CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0702MB356355EC31195F90CE061644CACA0@HE1PR0702MB3563.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CACZGMxK0Ebn8r7yzAkX+PReDQQ+TfuOWb8bvBhrLG6c=rx8zLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UDA931SC7JxaBxuqYCPSk8o7BCaQP4viYVNcHRkZ5g+Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53dc21c7-809b-89aa-494b-c86449f556e8@mnet-online.de>

Hi Michael

Am 30.03.20 um 05:12 schrieb Michael E Caloroso:
> Isopropyl alcohol leaves behind a film so they did not give you the
> best answer. Denatured alcohol is better.
I think you mismatch those two types of alcohol:

Isopropyl is CH3 OH CH3, which is not usable for making drinks (doesn't 
taste well by nature)
Ethyl is CH3 CH2 OH, which would be quite tasty for those who are 
addicted. Because of that it is mixed with extreme bitter tasting 
addons. That is called "denatured alcohol". These addons are the "film" 
that is left on potentiometers.

So: avoid denatured alcohol, use isopropyl.

Florian



From sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info  Mon Mar 30 11:11:47 2020
From: sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info (Michael Zacherl)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 11:11:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning scratchy pots
In-Reply-To: <53dc21c7-809b-89aa-494b-c86449f556e8@mnet-online.de>
References: <AM6PR0702MB35605B8A53DA3E425BCB0218CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM6PR0702MB35600A94B106440FAF93B1A9CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0702MB356355EC31195F90CE061644CACA0@HE1PR0702MB3563.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CACZGMxK0Ebn8r7yzAkX+PReDQQ+TfuOWb8bvBhrLG6c=rx8zLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UDA931SC7JxaBxuqYCPSk8o7BCaQP4viYVNcHRkZ5g+Qg@mail.gmail.com>
 <53dc21c7-809b-89aa-494b-c86449f556e8@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <A0D1A8AA-920B-4221-AF2B-9F9210BBBEC9@blauwurf.info>



> On 30.03.2020, at 10:28, Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael
> 
> Am 30.03.20 um 05:12 schrieb Michael E Caloroso:
>> Isopropyl alcohol leaves behind a film so they did not give you the
>> best answer. Denatured alcohol is better.
> I think you mismatch those two types of alcohol:
> 
> Isopropyl is CH3 OH CH3, which is not usable for making drinks (doesn't taste well by nature)
> Ethyl is CH3 CH2 OH, which would be quite tasty for those who are addicted. Because of that it is mixed with extreme bitter tasting addons. That is called "denatured alcohol". These addons are the "film" that is left on potentiometers.
> 
> So: avoid denatured alcohol, use isopropyl.

seconded! IPA is/was used for cleaning tape heads, for instance. Would be a no-go if there was residue!
m.




From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 11:31:45 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 09:31:45 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Cleaning scratchy pots
In-Reply-To: <A0D1A8AA-920B-4221-AF2B-9F9210BBBEC9@blauwurf.info>
References: <AM6PR0702MB35605B8A53DA3E425BCB0218CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM6PR0702MB35600A94B106440FAF93B1A9CA3D0@AM6PR0702MB3560.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0702MB356355EC31195F90CE061644CACA0@HE1PR0702MB3563.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <CACZGMxK0Ebn8r7yzAkX+PReDQQ+TfuOWb8bvBhrLG6c=rx8zLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UDA931SC7JxaBxuqYCPSk8o7BCaQP4viYVNcHRkZ5g+Qg@mail.gmail.com>
 <53dc21c7-809b-89aa-494b-c86449f556e8@mnet-online.de>
 <A0D1A8AA-920B-4221-AF2B-9F9210BBBEC9@blauwurf.info>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxKGxwDcSUS-h4xduU_WEWjz+790RRowuRFAweoA4687zQ@mail.gmail.com>

In the UK denatured alcohol is called Methylated Spirits, or "Meths"
for short, and dyed purple.

I have never seen meths anywhere in electronics development or
production areas.  But IPA - lots of it (especially since trich was
banned).

Neil

On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 10:12, Michael Zacherl <sdiy-mz01 at blauwurf.info> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 30.03.2020, at 10:28, Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Michael
> >
> > Am 30.03.20 um 05:12 schrieb Michael E Caloroso:
> >> Isopropyl alcohol leaves behind a film so they did not give you the
> >> best answer. Denatured alcohol is better.
> > I think you mismatch those two types of alcohol:
> >
> > Isopropyl is CH3 OH CH3, which is not usable for making drinks (doesn't taste well by nature)
> > Ethyl is CH3 CH2 OH, which would be quite tasty for those who are addicted. Because of that it is mixed with extreme bitter tasting addons. That is called "denatured alcohol". These addons are the "film" that is left on potentiometers.
> >
> > So: avoid denatured alcohol, use isopropyl.
>
> seconded! IPA is/was used for cleaning tape heads, for instance. Would be a no-go if there was residue!
> m.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From alfrede at opferindustries.de  Mon Mar 30 12:37:28 2020
From: alfrede at opferindustries.de (Mathias)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:37:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <00be01d5ff20$9f75c6f0$de6154d0$@oricom.ca>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <dc5e544b-eca8-ad5d-96e3-283a17af9b04@yahoo.com>
 <1bc26d4b-ca40-ea06-6051-cf0407fb903d@schmitzbits.de>
 <00be01d5ff20$9f75c6f0$de6154d0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <d73acb08-3278-760a-020c-16a62232ebb3@opferindustries.de>

I found that and would like to share it with you guys:

https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/midi-tutorial/all

Best

Mathias

On 21.03.20 02:32, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> Thanks Ren? !
> Even though there is no Rx interrupt code
> I will have a carefull look at your code with joy !
>
> JP
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Ren? Schmitz
> Envoy? : 20 mars 2020 21:10
> ? : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Objet : Re: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
>
> Well if none of you handles system common messages, I don't feel so bad.
>
> Here is some code I wrote some years back, and cobbled something
> together to be run in a shell, so you can actually examine this without
> the hassle of a embedded environment or ISRs etc.
>
> https://github.com/schmitzbits/terse_midi_parser
>
> Best,
>    Ren?
>
> On 21.03.2020 01:10, John Speth via Synth-diy wrote:
>> Neil's flowchart looks right. Here's another way to look at it from a
>> state machine perspective. For me personally, coding from a flow chart
>> leads to spaghetti code but a state machine translates to code much easier.
>>
>> http://myplace.frontier.com/~jspeth/MIDI_FSM.pdf
>>
>> Advice: There is little value and it's probably even detrimental to
>> attempt a starting MIDI reception code body. You need to fully implement
>> the MIDI reception and decoding parts. You can opt to disregard the
>> actions that should be taken after an unambiguous MIDI message is
>> received but you need to handle each byte.
>>
>> JJS
>>
>> On 3/20/2020 12:26 PM, Neil Johnson wrote:
>>> You mean like this:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/nejohnson/miby
>>>
>>> Look in the /doc folder for a PDF.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 19:17, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net
>>> <mailto:tom at electricdruid.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>      I think a flowchart is a good idea, but I?d say that the voice
>>>      assignment part is a separate thing from the MIDI. Voice handling
>>>      is a whole area in its own right.
>>>
>>>      Tom
>>>
>>>      ==================
>>>             Electric Druid
>>>      Synth & Stompbox DIY
>>>      ==================
>>>
>>>>      On 20 Mar 2020, at 19:10, Jean-Pierre Desrochers
>>>>      <jpdesroc at oricom.ca <mailto:jpdesroc at oricom.ca>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      One idea came to my mind reading all your great comments:
>>>>      Would it be usefull for anybody in this DIY forum including
>>>>      newbies like me
>>>>      that someone would publish a 'starting' MIDI receiving flowchart
>>>>      of the basics from the incoming bytes to the actual final process
>>>>      of each received notes ?
>>>>      For example this helping flowchart would show the basic steps
>>>>      of first: the interrupt function (USART Rx flag test, RxBuffer[]
>>>>      updating, etc...)
>>>>      Then the behaviour of the main loop processing each received byte
>>>>      for let's say a polyphonic MIDI to CV 8 voices module ?
>>>>      And only for one MIDI channel for simplicity to understanding ?
>>>>      I did in the past a big flowchart for my MIDI to CV 6 voices module
>>>>      That I could 'squeeze'to keep only what's stated above.
>>>>      This could be a starting point for anybody who wants to 'correct'
>>>>      things
>>>>      and this way the DIY forum would have a 'list standardized' flowchart
>>>>      For anybody to use in the future..
>>>>      This would answer many design questions to come.
>>>>      Again, a small flowchart of how to receive MIDI bytes for only
>>>>      one MIDI channel
>>>>      And process for polyphonic use (8 voices).
>>>>      If this suggestion interests enough diyers I could put my cleaned out
>>>>      Flowchart on the list as a start..
>>>>      Or maybe I'll be the only guy to be interested in that
>>>>      Since many of you gurus have already been through these codings..
>>>>      JP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>      Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>      Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>>>      http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>      Synth-diy mailing list
>>>      Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>>      http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>


From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 13:25:21 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 11:25:21 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <d73acb08-3278-760a-020c-16a62232ebb3@opferindustries.de>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <dc5e544b-eca8-ad5d-96e3-283a17af9b04@yahoo.com>
 <1bc26d4b-ca40-ea06-6051-cf0407fb903d@schmitzbits.de>
 <00be01d5ff20$9f75c6f0$de6154d0$@oricom.ca>
 <d73acb08-3278-760a-020c-16a62232ebb3@opferindustries.de>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxJyK7beN3yYve6MLOF2ZzGt-FTkigH6xUdeDmdN9wcjgw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Mathias wrote:
> I found that and would like to share it with you guys:
>
> https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/midi-tutorial/all

Except there are bugs in the MID parsing flowchart.

Neil


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon Mar 30 17:10:26 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 11:10:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJyK7beN3yYve6MLOF2ZzGt-FTkigH6xUdeDmdN9wcjgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <dc5e544b-eca8-ad5d-96e3-283a17af9b04@yahoo.com>
 <1bc26d4b-ca40-ea06-6051-cf0407fb903d@schmitzbits.de>
 <00be01d5ff20$9f75c6f0$de6154d0$@oricom.ca>
 <d73acb08-3278-760a-020c-16a62232ebb3@opferindustries.de>
 <CACZGMxJyK7beN3yYve6MLOF2ZzGt-FTkigH6xUdeDmdN9wcjgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01d606a5$57e1bab0$07a53010$@oricom.ca>

Neil,

> Except there are bugs in the MID parsing flowchart.

Can you get a little clearer on that ?
This would be helpful for anybody to know..
Where are the bugs in that flowchart ?
And what should they be ?

*************************************************************************

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Neil
Johnson
Envoy??: 30 mars 2020 07:25
??: Mathias
Cc?: SDIY List
Objet?: Re: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..

Hi,

Mathias wrote:
> I found that and would like to share it with you guys:
>
> https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/midi-tutorial/all

Except there are bugs in the MID parsing flowchart.

Neil
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon Mar 30 20:12:53 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:12:53 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI SYSEX message...
Message-ID: <001301d606be$d5236d70$7f6a4850$@oricom.ca>

On MIDI reception:
Is-it true that between a received SYSEX Status byte (Start Of Exclusive
0xF0)
and its ending Status byte (End Of Exclusive 0xF7)
there can be ANY bytes coming in from 0x00 to 0xEF ??
If so, how can I differentiate between a new Status byte like 0x94 (NOTE-ON
on MIDI channel 5)
from one of the SYSEX data bytes ?? 




From doug at synthark.com  Mon Mar 30 20:50:33 2020
From: doug at synthark.com (doug at synthark.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:50:33 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI SYSEX message...
In-Reply-To: <001301d606be$d5236d70$7f6a4850$@oricom.ca>
References: <001301d606be$d5236d70$7f6a4850$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <d5aa97f67c921ecb6f7a326fa0ea354e@synthark.com>

The first bit on all SysEx data bytes is always 0, so they range from 
0x00 to 0x7F.

---
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org


On 2020-03-30 12:12, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> On MIDI reception:
> Is-it true that between a received SYSEX Status byte (Start Of 
> Exclusive
> 0xF0)
> and its ending Status byte (End Of Exclusive 0xF7)
> there can be ANY bytes coming in from 0x00 to 0xEF ??
> If so, how can I differentiate between a new Status byte like 0x94 
> (NOTE-ON
> on MIDI channel 5)
> from one of the SYSEX data bytes ??
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Mon Mar 30 20:58:00 2020
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:58:00 -0400
Subject: [sdiy]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=5BPolluriel_d=E9tect=E9=5D__Re=3A__MIDI_S?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?YSEX_message=2E=2E=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <d5aa97f67c921ecb6f7a326fa0ea354e@synthark.com>
References: <001301d606be$d5236d70$7f6a4850$@oricom.ca>
 <d5aa97f67c921ecb6f7a326fa0ea354e@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <001401d606c5$22622670$67267350$@oricom.ca>

Noted !

Thanks.

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: doug at synthark.com [mailto:doug at synthark.com] 
Envoy??: 30 mars 2020 14:51
??: Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Cc?: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet?: [Polluriel d?tect?] Re: [sdiy] MIDI SYSEX message...
Importance?: Faible

The first bit on all SysEx data bytes is always 0, so they range from 
0x00 to 0x7F.

---
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org


On 2020-03-30 12:12, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> On MIDI reception:
> Is-it true that between a received SYSEX Status byte (Start Of 
> Exclusive
> 0xF0)
> and its ending Status byte (End Of Exclusive 0xF7)
> there can be ANY bytes coming in from 0x00 to 0xEF ??
> If so, how can I differentiate between a new Status byte like 0x94 
> (NOTE-ON
> on MIDI channel 5)
> from one of the SYSEX data bytes ??
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy




From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Mon Mar 30 23:27:07 2020
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 21:27:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI SYSEX message...
In-Reply-To: <d5aa97f67c921ecb6f7a326fa0ea354e@synthark.com>
References: <001301d606be$d5236d70$7f6a4850$@oricom.ca>
 <d5aa97f67c921ecb6f7a326fa0ea354e@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <20200330212707.GA19396@gjcp.net>

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:50:33PM -0600, doug at synthark.com wrote:
> The first bit on all SysEx data bytes is always 0, so they range from 0x00
> to 0x7F.
> 

But then how would you tell what's a resumption of sysex data and what's running status?

-- 
Gordonjcp



From jason at redfish.net  Mon Mar 30 23:40:36 2020
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:40:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI SYSEX message...
In-Reply-To: <20200330212707.GA19396@gjcp.net>
References: <001301d606be$d5236d70$7f6a4850$@oricom.ca>
 <d5aa97f67c921ecb6f7a326fa0ea354e@synthark.com>
 <20200330212707.GA19396@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <CALQanA+sRzaGPwm4Oyyh_CMeCfJtOVxDCM8e7Zp82nVe92fy=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:35 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:50:33PM -0600, doug at synthark.com wrote:
> > The first bit on all SysEx data bytes is always 0, so they range from 0x00
> > to 0x7F.
> >
>
> But then how would you tell what's a resumption of sysex data and what's running status?

IIRC, only System Realtime messages can be interleaved inside a System
Exclusive data stream. They are of a fixed length, so you know that
the next data byte coming down the pipe is part of the Sys Ex payload.


From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 23:52:20 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 21:52:20 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI SYSEX message...
In-Reply-To: <CALQanA+sRzaGPwm4Oyyh_CMeCfJtOVxDCM8e7Zp82nVe92fy=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001301d606be$d5236d70$7f6a4850$@oricom.ca>
 <d5aa97f67c921ecb6f7a326fa0ea354e@synthark.com>
 <20200330212707.GA19396@gjcp.net>
 <CALQanA+sRzaGPwm4Oyyh_CMeCfJtOVxDCM8e7Zp82nVe92fy=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxJh3aUsL5w3Sofcz=Lr=sycJWERfmXX85pXO5=0Z2U0ug@mail.gmail.com>

Jason Proctor wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:35 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:50:33PM -0600, doug at synthark.com wrote:
> > > The first bit on all SysEx data bytes is always 0, so they range from 0x00
> > > to 0x7F.
> > >
> >
> > But then how would you tell what's a resumption of sysex data and what's running status?
>
> IIRC, only System Realtime messages can be interleaved inside a System
> Exclusive data stream. They are of a fixed length, so you know that
> the next data byte coming down the pipe is part of the Sys Ex payload.

Exactly.  Running status makes no sense in SysEx: once you start
sending a SysEx packet you keep sending data bytes until the end of
the packet.  As packet sizes tend to be rather larger than two bytes
it doesn't make sense to try to save the SysEx start byte by employing
running status.  Only the single-byte System Realtime messages can
appear in the midst of a SysEx message without interrupting it.  If
any status byte other than EOX (0xF7) appears then the SysEx transfer
is aborted, and it is up to the receiving device to decide what to do.

Neil


From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 23:56:46 2020
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 21:56:46 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI receiving flowchart.. WAS MIDI I/O c code..
In-Reply-To: <000f01d606a5$57e1bab0$07a53010$@oricom.ca>
References: <007301d5feeb$2d49f950$87ddebf0$@oricom.ca>
 <AF934A0B-C58F-479C-B0FA-9BD47ABBAD4A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACZGMxJ=r0q4Eb4ts-BFDeZ+J60vQZYtPDv9=aw8+zfzMk8T=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <dc5e544b-eca8-ad5d-96e3-283a17af9b04@yahoo.com>
 <1bc26d4b-ca40-ea06-6051-cf0407fb903d@schmitzbits.de>
 <00be01d5ff20$9f75c6f0$de6154d0$@oricom.ca>
 <d73acb08-3278-760a-020c-16a62232ebb3@opferindustries.de>
 <CACZGMxJyK7beN3yYve6MLOF2ZzGt-FTkigH6xUdeDmdN9wcjgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000f01d606a5$57e1bab0$07a53010$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxL+BXKeDsMKyo0pDWY=ooTMoYt+OhqDnrVDGKiczMNrxA@mail.gmail.com>

Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
> Neil,
>
> > Except there are bugs in the MID parsing flowchart.
>
> Can you get a little clearer on that ?
> This would be helpful for anybody to know..
> Where are the bugs in that flowchart ?
> And what should they be ?

I'm not going to correct someone else's flowchart when I have written my own:
https://github.com/nejohnson/miby/blob/master/doc/midi%20flowchart.pdf

Neil


From Stromeko at nexgo.de  Tue Mar 31 20:06:09 2020
From: Stromeko at nexgo.de (ASSI)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:06:09 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] MIDI SYSEX message...
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJh3aUsL5w3Sofcz=Lr=sycJWERfmXX85pXO5=0Z2U0ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001301d606be$d5236d70$7f6a4850$@oricom.ca>
 <CALQanA+sRzaGPwm4Oyyh_CMeCfJtOVxDCM8e7Zp82nVe92fy=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxJh3aUsL5w3Sofcz=Lr=sycJWERfmXX85pXO5=0Z2U0ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3006615.0FcO3Qy7gX@gertrud>

On Montag, 30. M?rz 2020 23:52:20 CEST Neil Johnson wrote:
> If any status byte other than EOX (0xF7) appears then the SysEx transfer
> is aborted, and it is up to the receiving device to decide what to do.

That's exactly the problem with early implementations of SysEx: as the devices 
of the time often did not have sufficient RAM to buffer the whole SysEx 
message, it wasn't uncommon to have SysEx write directly into the memory area, 
so when a SysEx was aborted ever which way you were left with corrupted data 
that might be hard to recover from.  Also most MIDI mergers failed to grok 
SysEx for a while, so using them together with SysEx was a bit of a gamble.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada






